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6uf9h8 | 33 | If I m being honest with myself I was disappointed. Test drove and spent significant time in an S today. Maybe my expectations were too high but I didn t walk away as impressed as I thought I would. While the acceleration Autopilot and exterior were all highlights I found the interior to be ... blah. I think calling it cheap would be way too aggressive. But it definitely did not feel as ... solid | refined | evolved ... as other cars I ve had which cost significantly less. Longer term owners: how does the interior age over time? I saw a car that was just turned in and sat inside. Multiple panels were loose (for example the headliner was falling out on the driver a-pillar) and the driver s seat left side bolster was coming apart. This might surprise you but I did order an S by the end of the experience but am waffling on that decision due to this. Just curious whether anyone else has felt this way and how it turned out for them? Any regrets? | Some people prefer [this](https: i.pinimg.com 736x 39 7a 01 397a01b9a505be56f6e3e53a58d8b408--craftsman-style-interiors-craftsman-interior.jpg) type of home. Others prefer [this](https: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com 736x 45 66 dc 4566dc8f2526e190ff937745673e6149--industrial-interior-design-industrial-interiors.jpg) kind. To each their own. | The few times I ve ridden in Model Ss I felt the same way. Older ones are pretty uncomfortable. Seems like the Model 3 will have some design improvements (and some less luxurious materials) | 88 | 3 | 1,506 |
6urens | 31 | How can I charge my Model S in this situation? Hi guys I need some help on electricity knowledge to see whether I can charge Model S in my garage or not. I live in an old apartment and they do not have infrastructure ready to install Tesla charger. They did a math for a previous renter who owns a Model S and it would cost $10K to get everything ready. So that owner gave up and so do I. So I have to use 110V outlets in the garage. Here are some photos to describe the garage and the outlets: https: imgur.com gallery uvjmI As we can see there are two garage doors thus two openers. Each opener is plugged into a socket panel which has two outlets. So totally there are four outlets in the ceiling and two of them are used by opener and other two are available for me to use. I called the leasing office and they verified that the opener is on a 15 ampere circuit and the max ampere of opener is 6 ampere. I have several questions: 0. What s the max ampere Model S will use if I charge it on a 110V outlet? 1. Now there are two available 110V outlets can I use one of them to charge my car? (Note the max ampere of opener is 6 ampere and the opener is on a 15 ampere circuit) 2. Can I use a device called Quick220 to use these two available outlets? 3. Is there anything bad would happen if I go with either plan above? Since leasing office said they will not stop me to charge the car but if it causes anything I will be responsible for that. My Model S will be delivered at mid Sep and I moved into this new apartment just for charging it (my old place does not have a garage). I did not do some research before moving in is because I thought charging should not be an issue until I called the apartment this morning and raised all these concerns. If it turns out that I cannot charge it it would be so sad :( Thanks in advance! | Sorry but $10.000 is a ridiculous estimate unless the entire building is maxed out? A new circuit in the breaker box + running a cable from the breaker box to a new outlet is less than $200 in parts. That leaves $9.800 worth of labour to figure out where and how to run that cable.... My advice? Get hold of an electrician. Tell him you want to install a dryer in the garage. Don t mention EV s. Find one that not is trying to rip people off. | Thanks for the comments! What will happen if I open the garage while charging? It seems like all the numbers I mentioned above are important... | 44 | 4 | 1,507 |
6urens | 31 | How can I charge my Model S in this situation? Hi guys I need some help on electricity knowledge to see whether I can charge Model S in my garage or not. I live in an old apartment and they do not have infrastructure ready to install Tesla charger. They did a math for a previous renter who owns a Model S and it would cost $10K to get everything ready. So that owner gave up and so do I. So I have to use 110V outlets in the garage. Here are some photos to describe the garage and the outlets: https: imgur.com gallery uvjmI As we can see there are two garage doors thus two openers. Each opener is plugged into a socket panel which has two outlets. So totally there are four outlets in the ceiling and two of them are used by opener and other two are available for me to use. I called the leasing office and they verified that the opener is on a 15 ampere circuit and the max ampere of opener is 6 ampere. I have several questions: 0. What s the max ampere Model S will use if I charge it on a 110V outlet? 1. Now there are two available 110V outlets can I use one of them to charge my car? (Note the max ampere of opener is 6 ampere and the opener is on a 15 ampere circuit) 2. Can I use a device called Quick220 to use these two available outlets? 3. Is there anything bad would happen if I go with either plan above? Since leasing office said they will not stop me to charge the car but if it causes anything I will be responsible for that. My Model S will be delivered at mid Sep and I moved into this new apartment just for charging it (my old place does not have a garage). I did not do some research before moving in is because I thought charging should not be an issue until I called the apartment this morning and raised all these concerns. If it turns out that I cannot charge it it would be so sad :( Thanks in advance! | Sorry but $10.000 is a ridiculous estimate unless the entire building is maxed out? A new circuit in the breaker box + running a cable from the breaker box to a new outlet is less than $200 in parts. That leaves $9.800 worth of labour to figure out where and how to run that cable.... My advice? Get hold of an electrician. Tell him you want to install a dryer in the garage. Don t mention EV s. Find one that not is trying to rip people off. | If you don t drive a ton everyday then 110v will be fine. You ll get 3 to 4 miles an hour. That s around 50 a night. For longer trips you can use superchargers as long as you leave enough to make it to one. You can use a multi-meter to see if there are outlets on different legs for 220v but since you asked this question I m guessing you re not familiar enough to handle that. $10k will buy a good number of solar panels batteries and an inverter to dump that power into the car every night. The system could also draw a steady 1.2kw from the 110 circuit and dump that into the car at night too. | 44 | 6 | 1,508 |
6urens | 31 | How can I charge my Model S in this situation? Hi guys I need some help on electricity knowledge to see whether I can charge Model S in my garage or not. I live in an old apartment and they do not have infrastructure ready to install Tesla charger. They did a math for a previous renter who owns a Model S and it would cost $10K to get everything ready. So that owner gave up and so do I. So I have to use 110V outlets in the garage. Here are some photos to describe the garage and the outlets: https: imgur.com gallery uvjmI As we can see there are two garage doors thus two openers. Each opener is plugged into a socket panel which has two outlets. So totally there are four outlets in the ceiling and two of them are used by opener and other two are available for me to use. I called the leasing office and they verified that the opener is on a 15 ampere circuit and the max ampere of opener is 6 ampere. I have several questions: 0. What s the max ampere Model S will use if I charge it on a 110V outlet? 1. Now there are two available 110V outlets can I use one of them to charge my car? (Note the max ampere of opener is 6 ampere and the opener is on a 15 ampere circuit) 2. Can I use a device called Quick220 to use these two available outlets? 3. Is there anything bad would happen if I go with either plan above? Since leasing office said they will not stop me to charge the car but if it causes anything I will be responsible for that. My Model S will be delivered at mid Sep and I moved into this new apartment just for charging it (my old place does not have a garage). I did not do some research before moving in is because I thought charging should not be an issue until I called the apartment this morning and raised all these concerns. If it turns out that I cannot charge it it would be so sad :( Thanks in advance! | Sorry but $10.000 is a ridiculous estimate unless the entire building is maxed out? A new circuit in the breaker box + running a cable from the breaker box to a new outlet is less than $200 in parts. That leaves $9.800 worth of labour to figure out where and how to run that cable.... My advice? Get hold of an electrician. Tell him you want to install a dryer in the garage. Don t mention EV s. Find one that not is trying to rip people off. | I think a regular outlet will charge about 3 miles per hour. Sucks you signed a lease on this it will probably be a gigantic pain. Edit: if I had an electric car in my current situation there s a DC fast charger across the street in a parking lot I would charge as needed there. | 44 | 7 | 1,509 |
6uvsc0 | 46 | Reflections after test drive This was the first time driving a tesla and only the second time I ve been in one in 4yrs. Would love to get feedback from owners and non-owners alike: Tl dr: problems installing fwd facing child seat materials seemed cheap autopilot didn t seem any better than honda sense. What am I missing? -- For some reason I thought the materials felt cheap. Not sure why. But walking away from the test drive I literally said to my wife the materials felt like a piece of junk. Maybe I had really high expectations so just being overly critical? My child s car seat couldn t be installed the best. The back headrest prevented the headrest of my car seat from moving up. Also the safety harness that usually attaches to the rear of the back seat had nowhere to attach to (and if there was it wouldnt work bc the headrests are fixed. Hard to imagine anyone w kids in a car seat buying this. Am I suppose to used the seat belt and latch?? The map seemed slow when searching for destinations. And google wouldnt even load from the browser when the rep was trying to demo it. And this was right after she said one of the best things is that it s always connected to 4g lte so you can... Tried the auto perpendicular parking and it wouldn t detect the spot. Tried it three times. Rep tried to tell me the car needed to see a row of cars and that there weren t enough in the lot. Huh? I was trying to park between two cars. Test drove a CRV afterwards w Honda Sense and I really couldn t tell the difference btw autopilot and hondas ACC+LKAS combination. Am I missing something? Both did stop and go without touching anything. Both took turns pretty well. Only thing honda lacked is lane change. Any thoughts from those that have both? Does autopilot work better in certain weather conditions than sense? More than a handful of times autopilot didnt work and the rep kept saying it doesNt work on back roads even though we were definitely not driving outside of the civilized world and there were lane markers. I was seriously blown away when it worked having come from a car that doesn t have anything. But then honda gave me the same sense (no pun intended). And btw I specifically tried honda bc it seems like both them and Volvo have most driver assistance capabilities. If there are other cars that are also equivalent to autopilot would love to hear it. Overall finding it hard to justify the cost here. None of my criticism is to dismiss other aspects. I absolutely loved the glass roof the performance of the car and obviously the fact it s electric. But I guess I just had higher expectations for a car in this price range. I thought about going for model 3 but I need storage. (And yes my jaw dropped when I saw just how much space there was). Might still put a deposit down for one. Update: so the more I test drive other cars the more I realize how much I do like a car that s fun to drive. And the more cars I see the more I realize how much I dislike all the buttons and extraneous dials. My wife on the other hand has taken a fancy to everything that s not a CRV. So the search continues. | 2017 Honda CRV owner: Honda sensing is nice but here are some downsides: - If the turn isnt gradual the car just won t steer enough to make it. It can only do very gentle steering inputs. - Some non-interstate roads really make it want to ping pong in the lane and it s worse than having it off. Lane keep stays active even when you brake or provide steering input so if you get off the interstate the next time you hit 45mph it kicks black in again. - Lane Keep only works above 45mph so not in stop and go traffic jams. - Sometimes it doesn t detect your hand on the wheel and will beep every few minutes to make you jiggle the wheel a bit to keep lane keep active. The adaptive cruise works pretty well but: - I find it to be a bit heavier on the gas and brake than I would prefer trying to keep the exact following distance. - If someone in front of you changes lanes and starts slowing down the adaptive cruise often wants to slow down with them. From what I have seen I think Autopilot has the ability to be better in some situations but the biggest difference is that my Honda will most likely **never get a single software update** unless it s something critical or safety related and I take it to a dealer. | I am a Honda owner and thought LKAS was just going to ping pong the car from one side to the other and was meant to prevent accidents as opposed to being engaged as the primary driving instrument like autopilot. Are you able to be hands free in traffic and on highways with it? Having driven an AP1 and AP2 car though not very recently with newer releases of the AP2 software I walked away with a stronger confidence in AP1 than I have with AP2. This is not to say what the situation will be given time but at least when I drove it AP1 left me with an experience I won t forget. AP2 has a lot of capability so don t get me wrong but it wasn t there yet. | 40 | 4 | 1,510 |
6uvsc0 | 46 | Reflections after test drive This was the first time driving a tesla and only the second time I ve been in one in 4yrs. Would love to get feedback from owners and non-owners alike: Tl dr: problems installing fwd facing child seat materials seemed cheap autopilot didn t seem any better than honda sense. What am I missing? -- For some reason I thought the materials felt cheap. Not sure why. But walking away from the test drive I literally said to my wife the materials felt like a piece of junk. Maybe I had really high expectations so just being overly critical? My child s car seat couldn t be installed the best. The back headrest prevented the headrest of my car seat from moving up. Also the safety harness that usually attaches to the rear of the back seat had nowhere to attach to (and if there was it wouldnt work bc the headrests are fixed. Hard to imagine anyone w kids in a car seat buying this. Am I suppose to used the seat belt and latch?? The map seemed slow when searching for destinations. And google wouldnt even load from the browser when the rep was trying to demo it. And this was right after she said one of the best things is that it s always connected to 4g lte so you can... Tried the auto perpendicular parking and it wouldn t detect the spot. Tried it three times. Rep tried to tell me the car needed to see a row of cars and that there weren t enough in the lot. Huh? I was trying to park between two cars. Test drove a CRV afterwards w Honda Sense and I really couldn t tell the difference btw autopilot and hondas ACC+LKAS combination. Am I missing something? Both did stop and go without touching anything. Both took turns pretty well. Only thing honda lacked is lane change. Any thoughts from those that have both? Does autopilot work better in certain weather conditions than sense? More than a handful of times autopilot didnt work and the rep kept saying it doesNt work on back roads even though we were definitely not driving outside of the civilized world and there were lane markers. I was seriously blown away when it worked having come from a car that doesn t have anything. But then honda gave me the same sense (no pun intended). And btw I specifically tried honda bc it seems like both them and Volvo have most driver assistance capabilities. If there are other cars that are also equivalent to autopilot would love to hear it. Overall finding it hard to justify the cost here. None of my criticism is to dismiss other aspects. I absolutely loved the glass roof the performance of the car and obviously the fact it s electric. But I guess I just had higher expectations for a car in this price range. I thought about going for model 3 but I need storage. (And yes my jaw dropped when I saw just how much space there was). Might still put a deposit down for one. Update: so the more I test drive other cars the more I realize how much I do like a car that s fun to drive. And the more cars I see the more I realize how much I dislike all the buttons and extraneous dials. My wife on the other hand has taken a fancy to everything that s not a CRV. So the search continues. | 2017 Honda CRV owner: Honda sensing is nice but here are some downsides: - If the turn isnt gradual the car just won t steer enough to make it. It can only do very gentle steering inputs. - Some non-interstate roads really make it want to ping pong in the lane and it s worse than having it off. Lane keep stays active even when you brake or provide steering input so if you get off the interstate the next time you hit 45mph it kicks black in again. - Lane Keep only works above 45mph so not in stop and go traffic jams. - Sometimes it doesn t detect your hand on the wheel and will beep every few minutes to make you jiggle the wheel a bit to keep lane keep active. The adaptive cruise works pretty well but: - I find it to be a bit heavier on the gas and brake than I would prefer trying to keep the exact following distance. - If someone in front of you changes lanes and starts slowing down the adaptive cruise often wants to slow down with them. From what I have seen I think Autopilot has the ability to be better in some situations but the biggest difference is that my Honda will most likely **never get a single software update** unless it s something critical or safety related and I take it to a dealer. | I had a Honda civic last year with Honda sense. It s only good when there s no stop and go traffic and when you re going through turns if you turned the steering wheel more than 30-45 degrees it would shut off. In stop and go traffic it is very jerky and if the car in front would start going the car took about 2 seconds to realize then floor it to catch up and then hit the brakes immediately cause traffic was slowing again it wasn t smooth transitions also if it came to a complete stop then when traffic started again you have to hit the gas in order make the car move. I ve not used a Tesla autopilot so I couldn t compare the two but just saying how the Honda s was over about 11 000 miles of driving. | 40 | 6 | 1,511 |
6uvsc0 | 46 | Reflections after test drive This was the first time driving a tesla and only the second time I ve been in one in 4yrs. Would love to get feedback from owners and non-owners alike: Tl dr: problems installing fwd facing child seat materials seemed cheap autopilot didn t seem any better than honda sense. What am I missing? -- For some reason I thought the materials felt cheap. Not sure why. But walking away from the test drive I literally said to my wife the materials felt like a piece of junk. Maybe I had really high expectations so just being overly critical? My child s car seat couldn t be installed the best. The back headrest prevented the headrest of my car seat from moving up. Also the safety harness that usually attaches to the rear of the back seat had nowhere to attach to (and if there was it wouldnt work bc the headrests are fixed. Hard to imagine anyone w kids in a car seat buying this. Am I suppose to used the seat belt and latch?? The map seemed slow when searching for destinations. And google wouldnt even load from the browser when the rep was trying to demo it. And this was right after she said one of the best things is that it s always connected to 4g lte so you can... Tried the auto perpendicular parking and it wouldn t detect the spot. Tried it three times. Rep tried to tell me the car needed to see a row of cars and that there weren t enough in the lot. Huh? I was trying to park between two cars. Test drove a CRV afterwards w Honda Sense and I really couldn t tell the difference btw autopilot and hondas ACC+LKAS combination. Am I missing something? Both did stop and go without touching anything. Both took turns pretty well. Only thing honda lacked is lane change. Any thoughts from those that have both? Does autopilot work better in certain weather conditions than sense? More than a handful of times autopilot didnt work and the rep kept saying it doesNt work on back roads even though we were definitely not driving outside of the civilized world and there were lane markers. I was seriously blown away when it worked having come from a car that doesn t have anything. But then honda gave me the same sense (no pun intended). And btw I specifically tried honda bc it seems like both them and Volvo have most driver assistance capabilities. If there are other cars that are also equivalent to autopilot would love to hear it. Overall finding it hard to justify the cost here. None of my criticism is to dismiss other aspects. I absolutely loved the glass roof the performance of the car and obviously the fact it s electric. But I guess I just had higher expectations for a car in this price range. I thought about going for model 3 but I need storage. (And yes my jaw dropped when I saw just how much space there was). Might still put a deposit down for one. Update: so the more I test drive other cars the more I realize how much I do like a car that s fun to drive. And the more cars I see the more I realize how much I dislike all the buttons and extraneous dials. My wife on the other hand has taken a fancy to everything that s not a CRV. So the search continues. | 2017 Honda CRV owner: Honda sensing is nice but here are some downsides: - If the turn isnt gradual the car just won t steer enough to make it. It can only do very gentle steering inputs. - Some non-interstate roads really make it want to ping pong in the lane and it s worse than having it off. Lane keep stays active even when you brake or provide steering input so if you get off the interstate the next time you hit 45mph it kicks black in again. - Lane Keep only works above 45mph so not in stop and go traffic jams. - Sometimes it doesn t detect your hand on the wheel and will beep every few minutes to make you jiggle the wheel a bit to keep lane keep active. The adaptive cruise works pretty well but: - I find it to be a bit heavier on the gas and brake than I would prefer trying to keep the exact following distance. - If someone in front of you changes lanes and starts slowing down the adaptive cruise often wants to slow down with them. From what I have seen I think Autopilot has the ability to be better in some situations but the biggest difference is that my Honda will most likely **never get a single software update** unless it s something critical or safety related and I take it to a dealer. | My old boss let me drive his S a couple years ago and I had the same experience with the interior feel. Felt like I was sitting in a Prius even my non-packaged out VW Golf has a better interior build. | 40 | 10 | 1,512 |
6v0vt3 | 100 | AP camera dashcam functionality apparently in the works I frequent the Roadster section of the TMC forums and apparently there was a [weekend social for Roadster owners](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc threads private-owners-reception-at-tesla-monterey-19aug2017.96543 ) recently where Franz casually dropped a tip that AP equipped S and X s will get dashcam functionality out of the front cameras at some point. | other things that may happen at some point with varying probability: * ~~Duke Nukem Forever~~ * ~~Cubs win the World Series~~ * Peace in the Middle East * Humans on Mars * AP2 automatic wipers * new Roadster delivered to customers on-time and on-budget | Woo-hoo! Thanks. Grayscale IR would be valuable especially for security monitoring around the vehicle while parked at night in addition to while vehicle is in use and moving. | 73 | 3 | 1,513 |
6v0vt3 | 100 | AP camera dashcam functionality apparently in the works I frequent the Roadster section of the TMC forums and apparently there was a [weekend social for Roadster owners](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc threads private-owners-reception-at-tesla-monterey-19aug2017.96543 ) recently where Franz casually dropped a tip that AP equipped S and X s will get dashcam functionality out of the front cameras at some point. | other things that may happen at some point with varying probability: * ~~Duke Nukem Forever~~ * ~~Cubs win the World Series~~ * Peace in the Middle East * Humans on Mars * AP2 automatic wipers * new Roadster delivered to customers on-time and on-budget | I hope this gets added to the 3 too. I really don t want to add a dashcam to that interior. | 73 | 23 | 1,514 |
6v6lbe | 29 | Why doesnt Regen Braking fully stop the car? I love one pedal driving. I have creep off and regen in standard not low and use the regen braking to stop 99% of the time. But when you get to 5-10 mph the regen braking cuts out and you have to move your foot. I have a lot of stop signs by my house and its really a pain Other than that I LOVE one pedal driving. | AC induction motors do a poor job of extracting energy at low speeds. The regen profile could be different for the Model 3 with its permanent magnet motors. | I think I remember hearing that a Prius stops regenerative braking at 7mph because the motor becomes ineffective at that point. Maybe same concept? | 42 | 7 | 1,515 |
6vb883 | 86 | Will the influx of Model 3 owners lead to resentment? The pictures and stories of Super Charger locations during the Great Eclipse Migration of 2017 got me thinking. From my anecdotal perspective current X and S owners have had the luxury of relatively wait-free SC access. I know the number of charging locations is going up a lot but it doesn t seem proportional to the ~400 000 new Tesla drivers we ll theoretically have by the end of next year. Here are some factors I can see leading to some resentment from existing Tesla owners (a lot of speculation): * A larger percentage of Model 3 owners may not be able to charge at home (more renters apartment dwellers) * 3 owners may not be as familiar with best charging practices and etiquette * Model 3 owners will be lower-income relative to S and X owners Allow me to explain that last one further. I find this subreddit to have a very positive community with a general *we re in this together* feel but I do think there is potential in the real world for a subsection of S and X owners to be really put off when suddenly they have to wait behind a bunch of 3 owners at a charger that used to be relatively vacant. I m not claiming there will be rampant fights or class warfare at Super Chargers I just thought the eclipse provided an interesting glimpse at a potential future for EV owners. | I think it is pretty clear that a subset of existing Tesla owners are unhappy about the model 3 - Its launch has will undoubtedly accelerate depreciation for Model S more load on supercharging network Tesla not being as exclusive anymore etc. Solution: deal with it. | Outside of NorCal and some popular vacation spots supercharger stations are generally underutilized. I live in Las Vegas and I ve yet to see a SC station with a line even the one right out of town on the freeway to CA. There is no shortage of S X owners here either I see one in my neighborhood on almost every drive. Our SC stations are centrally located in fairly shit areas so no one wants to hang out there. Destination EV chargers are all over the place for a little top up while you eat shop or play. I ll be using my 3 as my commuter car about 35mi day plus errands around town on my days off. The errant trip to CA is loaded with SC stations and I don t foresee a huge problem with the LR model 3. | 135 | 4 | 1,516 |
6vb883 | 86 | Will the influx of Model 3 owners lead to resentment? The pictures and stories of Super Charger locations during the Great Eclipse Migration of 2017 got me thinking. From my anecdotal perspective current X and S owners have had the luxury of relatively wait-free SC access. I know the number of charging locations is going up a lot but it doesn t seem proportional to the ~400 000 new Tesla drivers we ll theoretically have by the end of next year. Here are some factors I can see leading to some resentment from existing Tesla owners (a lot of speculation): * A larger percentage of Model 3 owners may not be able to charge at home (more renters apartment dwellers) * 3 owners may not be as familiar with best charging practices and etiquette * Model 3 owners will be lower-income relative to S and X owners Allow me to explain that last one further. I find this subreddit to have a very positive community with a general *we re in this together* feel but I do think there is potential in the real world for a subsection of S and X owners to be really put off when suddenly they have to wait behind a bunch of 3 owners at a charger that used to be relatively vacant. I m not claiming there will be rampant fights or class warfare at Super Chargers I just thought the eclipse provided an interesting glimpse at a potential future for EV owners. | I think it is pretty clear that a subset of existing Tesla owners are unhappy about the model 3 - Its launch has will undoubtedly accelerate depreciation for Model S more load on supercharging network Tesla not being as exclusive anymore etc. Solution: deal with it. | I think the fact that Model 3 supercharging will cost money will make a difference. Owners will use them when they need to not just for convenience. Owners of any model who act like fools will be treated as such. Otherwise I don t see it as a problem. If you and your bros really *need* to stand right next to the supercharger to yell profanity and vape I m going to avoid you and your boorish behavior. Take that somewhere where it s between you and your friends. If you need to make out or have sex while you supercharge do it where I don t accidentally have to see it unless you want advice and critique. When I owned an ICE I didn t make friends at the gas station so why would the SC be any different? I m going to wave to you and go about my business. If you want to chat and we re not in a hurry we ll chat but we re here to charge not bond. But I m also a car guy. I would love to see and hear about your Panamera WRX or 73 Javelin. I d like to ride in a Nissan Leaf sometime. So I don t see the Model 3 as somehow a lower-class car I just see it as another car that s cool in its way even if it s not for me. | 135 | 7 | 1,517 |
6vb883 | 86 | Will the influx of Model 3 owners lead to resentment? The pictures and stories of Super Charger locations during the Great Eclipse Migration of 2017 got me thinking. From my anecdotal perspective current X and S owners have had the luxury of relatively wait-free SC access. I know the number of charging locations is going up a lot but it doesn t seem proportional to the ~400 000 new Tesla drivers we ll theoretically have by the end of next year. Here are some factors I can see leading to some resentment from existing Tesla owners (a lot of speculation): * A larger percentage of Model 3 owners may not be able to charge at home (more renters apartment dwellers) * 3 owners may not be as familiar with best charging practices and etiquette * Model 3 owners will be lower-income relative to S and X owners Allow me to explain that last one further. I find this subreddit to have a very positive community with a general *we re in this together* feel but I do think there is potential in the real world for a subsection of S and X owners to be really put off when suddenly they have to wait behind a bunch of 3 owners at a charger that used to be relatively vacant. I m not claiming there will be rampant fights or class warfare at Super Chargers I just thought the eclipse provided an interesting glimpse at a potential future for EV owners. | I think it is pretty clear that a subset of existing Tesla owners are unhappy about the model 3 - Its launch has will undoubtedly accelerate depreciation for Model S more load on supercharging network Tesla not being as exclusive anymore etc. Solution: deal with it. | I ll be interested to see how often Model 3 owners use SC s vs Model S X owners. I wonder if the exclusion of free supercharging from the 3 was chosen to help reduce the use of superchargers vs charging at home. | 135 | 8 | 1,518 |
6vguys | 27 | Any tesla owners here make 75-80K per year? (Or do you need a much higher salary in order to intelligently afford one?) Obviously someone *could* pay the Tesla lease price ($1 200 a month or so) but I m not sure one could *afford* that. Anyone here making $75K-$80K per year? | I make around 100k and my wife makes around 130k with one small child but I consider the Model 3 base model to be a bit of a stretch for a car even in our situation. We live in a very expensive housing market and prioritize maxing out retirement savings having a solid emergency fund and college savings before leaving anything over for a car. | I m on the lower end of that with Model 3 reservation. | 41 | 2 | 1,519 |
6vguys | 27 | Any tesla owners here make 75-80K per year? (Or do you need a much higher salary in order to intelligently afford one?) Obviously someone *could* pay the Tesla lease price ($1 200 a month or so) but I m not sure one could *afford* that. Anyone here making $75K-$80K per year? | I make around 100k and my wife makes around 130k with one small child but I consider the Model 3 base model to be a bit of a stretch for a car even in our situation. We live in a very expensive housing market and prioritize maxing out retirement savings having a solid emergency fund and college savings before leaving anything over for a car. | I make 50%+ more than that don t pay rent mortgage and my 90D still hurts. Worth it but you need a higher salary than 80K realistically. Why not a Model 3? | 41 | 4 | 1,520 |
6vguys | 27 | Any tesla owners here make 75-80K per year? (Or do you need a much higher salary in order to intelligently afford one?) Obviously someone *could* pay the Tesla lease price ($1 200 a month or so) but I m not sure one could *afford* that. Anyone here making $75K-$80K per year? | I make around 100k and my wife makes around 130k with one small child but I consider the Model 3 base model to be a bit of a stretch for a car even in our situation. We live in a very expensive housing market and prioritize maxing out retirement savings having a solid emergency fund and college savings before leaving anything over for a car. | My personal definition of financial intelligence = having a respectable emergency savings built (12-18 months of expenses) 401K and Roth IRA maxed out and a monthly savings for kid(s) college funds. Once this is achieved save 20% down for Model S or X. I m a hardass with money and that is why I will never have anything nicer than Model 3. | 41 | 6 | 1,521 |
6vven5 | 102 | OMG! Look what just showed up at my door! http: imgur.com a kQkdh From the referral period at the end of 2016. I had long since given up hope. | Nice it even has AWD. | HOT!!! | 46 | 2 | 1,522 |
6vven5 | 102 | OMG! Look what just showed up at my door! http: imgur.com a kQkdh From the referral period at the end of 2016. I had long since given up hope. | Nice it even has AWD. | Sex. | 46 | 7 | 1,523 |
6vven5 | 102 | OMG! Look what just showed up at my door! http: imgur.com a kQkdh From the referral period at the end of 2016. I had long since given up hope. | Nice it even has AWD. | I ll give you $50. | 46 | 12 | 1,524 |
6vzwjl | 37 | Why does the WSJ seem to always slam Tesla? Yet another article came out yesterday. | The article done yesterday was solid journalism. Regardless of whether the article focuses on a highlight or lowlight of the company should be irrelevant. A story is a story. | I think their readership is also a factor. Most people on Wall St (the WS part of WSJ) don t think favorably of Tesla s valuation and I think this view plays to that. | 61 | 6 | 1,525 |
6vzwjl | 37 | Why does the WSJ seem to always slam Tesla? Yet another article came out yesterday. | I think most WSJ articles are well researched and are pretty neutral. They don t slam Tesla they simply exist outside of the echo chamber circlejerk that is the usual Tech blogosphere when it comes to Tesla. If you want more rational view on Tesla then HackerNews threads are a good place to go as well. As an investor I am pretty nervous that most of the experts in the industry (no I m not talking about competitors I m talking about PhDs in their respective fields) are very skeptical about Tesla s unproven claims and all the cheerleaders are amateur bloggers with very little technical backgrounds. So I think it s fantastic when WSJ get out a well researched article like that. The last thing I want my investment to be based on is a one sided bubble created by people who don t know a lot about the subject. | You mean SLAM Tesla in this case! (Sorry) | 29 | 3 | 1,526 |
6w565w | 117 | AWD Model 3 may not have more range than RWD TL DR: Tesla Model 3 uses motors with permanent magnets in the rotor that will cause losses that may offset gains from different gear ratios in front vs. rear motor. Long story: I don t drive often. But when I drive I do it on the Autobahn and for distances (~250mi) that are on the edge of what is possible with a Tesla on a single charge depending on range charge or not weather wind speed etc. So a few miles of range may make the difference between having to charge in between or not. Yes I may have to take a break from driving (or not with EAP FSD) anyhow but having to charge limits my choice in when and where I stop. So it s kind of an inconvenience. That s why I want the LR Model 3. And aero wheels. And AWD. AWD? On the Model S it makes a 3-4% difference in range and that alone might be worth it. Model 3 however: different story. As we know by now Model 3 uses PM motors which are more efficient than the induction motors used in the S X. However they have different loss characteristics. Which is important when you want to optimize range with two motors. My understanding is that in a Model S X at a given speed only one motor will operate and the other will rotate along without any load. In a (rotating) induction motor at no load you have some mechanical losses and that s it. There s no currents and no magnetic fields. In a PM motor however the rotor always has a magnetic field and if you rotate that against the stator there will be additional losses from induced (eddy) currents. Let s try to quantify those losses. Suppose we have an LR Model 3 with 75 kWh of usable energy and 310 miles of range at 62mph. That translates to 5 hours of driving at 15 kW. Some [random paper I found](https: www.calnetix.com sites default files 7.pdf) has a graph for no-load loss vs. rotational speed for a 120kW motor. According to [wikipedia](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Tesla_Model_3) Model 3 s rear motor is a bit bigger: 192kW. Let s assume both motors in the AWD car have the same size and one of those has no load. Further assume that the rotational speed of the motors is [about 10k RPM](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2p5v3k a_tesla_doesnt_have_a_gearbox_confused cmu23er ). In fig. 8 (p. 5) of that paper that s roughly 250W of losses at 10k RPM for 120kW. Scaling this proportionally gives us 400W for a 192kW motor. 400W of losses that is 2.67% of those 15 kW that we are using. Which is around the same magnitude as the range gains of an AWD Model S. So if you were waiting for the AWD Model 3 only for the increased range: maybe reconsider. edit: this assumes that both motors are PM. As commenters have pointed out it would make sense to make the second motor an induction motor which would practically eliminate those extra losses. | Great observation. I think I ve heard about a hybrid setup in the subreddit though (meaning a combination of PM motor and induction motor)? With both you can use the PM to provide a baseload and the induction kicks in when needed generally having negligible losses. | Makes sense because one of the reasons for longer range in the dual motor S X is the ability to put one of the motors to sleep on the highway (torque sleep). The front motor drives and the rear motor just spins freely. With a permanent magnet motor you can t do that. | 29 | 2 | 1,527 |
6wbjch | 258 | Can we have a model 3 sightings megathread Sticky? People are obviously excited about model 3 and I am too! But half of the posts on the front page are pictures of sighted model 3s and I m just not interested in that content by now. We know pretty much what it looks like by now and looking at more pictures doesn t do anything for me. That s fine and I m absolutely not saying that other people shouldn t be excited over them - if looking at sighting pics gets you excited or you just like looking then great :) But can we contain then into a single thread? It would be more organised for a start but also it would allow those who have satiated their model 3 viewing already to ignore the thread and enjoy a less cluttered home page Does anyone agree? Or have other thoughts suggestions? I think with any subreddit that if one topic suddenly becomes very popular to the point where a majority of posts are about one thing a megathread is usually a good idea. And I think it would be well-used here. Maybe Automod could refresh it once a day week etc and keep it stickied. | I agree as long as the I bought an s x pictures and my first time doing Blank with my Tesla posts go with them. It s not your fucking baby and I don t care about your baby either. | They are supposed to go in the weekly threads. | 82 | 7 | 1,528 |
6wbjch | 258 | Can we have a model 3 sightings megathread Sticky? People are obviously excited about model 3 and I am too! But half of the posts on the front page are pictures of sighted model 3s and I m just not interested in that content by now. We know pretty much what it looks like by now and looking at more pictures doesn t do anything for me. That s fine and I m absolutely not saying that other people shouldn t be excited over them - if looking at sighting pics gets you excited or you just like looking then great :) But can we contain then into a single thread? It would be more organised for a start but also it would allow those who have satiated their model 3 viewing already to ignore the thread and enjoy a less cluttered home page Does anyone agree? Or have other thoughts suggestions? I think with any subreddit that if one topic suddenly becomes very popular to the point where a majority of posts are about one thing a megathread is usually a good idea. And I think it would be well-used here. Maybe Automod could refresh it once a day week etc and keep it stickied. | I agree as long as the I bought an s x pictures and my first time doing Blank with my Tesla posts go with them. It s not your fucking baby and I don t care about your baby either. | Model 3 sightings are still heavily upvoted and frequently make it to top so im not sure if we are all ready for that yet. For me personally i am very happy to see pictures that include VIN # s because once we start seeing them hit 1000 and 10000 we could see the market react. | 82 | 8 | 1,529 |
6wbjch | 258 | Can we have a model 3 sightings megathread Sticky? People are obviously excited about model 3 and I am too! But half of the posts on the front page are pictures of sighted model 3s and I m just not interested in that content by now. We know pretty much what it looks like by now and looking at more pictures doesn t do anything for me. That s fine and I m absolutely not saying that other people shouldn t be excited over them - if looking at sighting pics gets you excited or you just like looking then great :) But can we contain then into a single thread? It would be more organised for a start but also it would allow those who have satiated their model 3 viewing already to ignore the thread and enjoy a less cluttered home page Does anyone agree? Or have other thoughts suggestions? I think with any subreddit that if one topic suddenly becomes very popular to the point where a majority of posts are about one thing a megathread is usually a good idea. And I think it would be well-used here. Maybe Automod could refresh it once a day week etc and keep it stickied. | I agree as long as the I bought an s x pictures and my first time doing Blank with my Tesla posts go with them. It s not your fucking baby and I don t care about your baby either. | I m surprised no one s mentioned it s pretty creepy to go up to someone s car and take photos through the window. I d be freaked out if I saw someone doing that to my car. | 82 | 41 | 1,530 |
6wbwbv | 60 | Flooding in Houston - what do I do to make sure my Tesla Model X gets the least damage? Title says it all. Currently watching the water level rise too quickly for comfort. Thanks in advance Edit: Currently all the streets are flooded. Driving is not possible. Can t get it to higher ground. Is there any way I can shut down the tesla? Update 8 30 17: Luckily I was able to take it to a parking garage once the flood receded a bit. No damage done thankfully. Btw the parking garages in the med center are all open to the public for now. Unfortunately many others in my area experienced far worse flooding -- up to their roofs. This was meyerland and times has a picture where the flood nearly reached streetlight level. This is my lesson learned. I ve been thru hurricanes before in Houston but none with this extreme of flooding. I suspect there will be many more extremes in the future for Houston. Thank you all for your advice. | Build ramps! Find anything that can hold 5600 pounds and somehow ramp the X onto it. If you have an unfinished basement take out non load bearing studs to use in your ramp. If you can find a store you could consider the biggest above ground pool you can find and build it around the model X. You could also likely turn a pool pump into a make shift sump with some duct tape and hose. Pm me happy to talk situations over text phone Edit: removed mention that I was a former engineer since some many people are a-holes. Edit2: A kind user reminded me that the vehicle s actual weight is closer to 5600 pounds. Thanks! | Flee? | 59 | 2 | 1,531 |
6wbwbv | 60 | Flooding in Houston - what do I do to make sure my Tesla Model X gets the least damage? Title says it all. Currently watching the water level rise too quickly for comfort. Thanks in advance Edit: Currently all the streets are flooded. Driving is not possible. Can t get it to higher ground. Is there any way I can shut down the tesla? Update 8 30 17: Luckily I was able to take it to a parking garage once the flood receded a bit. No damage done thankfully. Btw the parking garages in the med center are all open to the public for now. Unfortunately many others in my area experienced far worse flooding -- up to their roofs. This was meyerland and times has a picture where the flood nearly reached streetlight level. This is my lesson learned. I ve been thru hurricanes before in Houston but none with this extreme of flooding. I suspect there will be many more extremes in the future for Houston. Thank you all for your advice. | Build ramps! Find anything that can hold 5600 pounds and somehow ramp the X onto it. If you have an unfinished basement take out non load bearing studs to use in your ramp. If you can find a store you could consider the biggest above ground pool you can find and build it around the model X. You could also likely turn a pool pump into a make shift sump with some duct tape and hose. Pm me happy to talk situations over text phone Edit: removed mention that I was a former engineer since some many people are a-holes. Edit2: A kind user reminded me that the vehicle s actual weight is closer to 5600 pounds. Thanks! | If it s only going to be inches (not feet) use the air suspension to raise to the highest setting and hope. | 59 | 14 | 1,532 |
6wbwbv | 60 | Flooding in Houston - what do I do to make sure my Tesla Model X gets the least damage? Title says it all. Currently watching the water level rise too quickly for comfort. Thanks in advance Edit: Currently all the streets are flooded. Driving is not possible. Can t get it to higher ground. Is there any way I can shut down the tesla? Update 8 30 17: Luckily I was able to take it to a parking garage once the flood receded a bit. No damage done thankfully. Btw the parking garages in the med center are all open to the public for now. Unfortunately many others in my area experienced far worse flooding -- up to their roofs. This was meyerland and times has a picture where the flood nearly reached streetlight level. This is my lesson learned. I ve been thru hurricanes before in Houston but none with this extreme of flooding. I suspect there will be many more extremes in the future for Houston. Thank you all for your advice. | Build ramps! Find anything that can hold 5600 pounds and somehow ramp the X onto it. If you have an unfinished basement take out non load bearing studs to use in your ramp. If you can find a store you could consider the biggest above ground pool you can find and build it around the model X. You could also likely turn a pool pump into a make shift sump with some duct tape and hose. Pm me happy to talk situations over text phone Edit: removed mention that I was a former engineer since some many people are a-holes. Edit2: A kind user reminded me that the vehicle s actual weight is closer to 5600 pounds. Thanks! | [park it on the roof.](https: www.google.com search?q=cow+on+a+roof& rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS728US728& tbm=isch& imgil=nR12tmT0gXkPJM%253A%253B743W-wGaZ8heJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fmetro.co.uk%25252F2016%25252F03%25252F18%25252Ftheres-a-cow-just-hanging-out-on-a-bungalow-roof-in-devon-5760467%25252F& source=iu& pf=m& fir=nR12tmT0gXkPJM%253A%252C743W-wGaZ8heJM%252C_& usg=__wg9BdKt0SOvR6kbWDsNGm4rxiGg%3D& biw=1463& bih=718& ved=0ahUKEwi04JK8wffVAhVLw1QKHbLoDskQyjcIMw& ei=88eiWfSaJMuG0wKy0bvIDA#imgrc=_) | 59 | 17 | 1,533 |
6wjhkv | 62 | Supercharger for Raleigh NC due end of September Sitting at Raleigh Tesla service getting some minor work done on my CPO and got to hear the official announcement that a lease has been signed for a Raleigh NC supercharger at a Sheetz at North Hills. It is planned to be 14 stalls and currently projected complete by end of September. Rejoice The pre-Model 3 rollout continues! | We re quite fond of Tesla. The supercharger colors match ours ) In all honesty though we are wicked excited to be working with them because we can offer a safe well-lit location for Tesla owners on the east coast...along with a place to get food. | My charge level just hit 100%. This is right down the road from me. | 42 | 4 | 1,534 |
6wjhkv | 62 | Supercharger for Raleigh NC due end of September Sitting at Raleigh Tesla service getting some minor work done on my CPO and got to hear the official announcement that a lease has been signed for a Raleigh NC supercharger at a Sheetz at North Hills. It is planned to be 14 stalls and currently projected complete by end of September. Rejoice The pre-Model 3 rollout continues! | We re quite fond of Tesla. The supercharger colors match ours ) In all honesty though we are wicked excited to be working with them because we can offer a safe well-lit location for Tesla owners on the east coast...along with a place to get food. | Oh sweet. Raleigh area has growing tech population. Expect a lot of Teslas here | 42 | 6 | 1,535 |
6wuwk4 | 27 | Did I make a mistake getting a Tesla? They re wonderful cars. I ve never driven anything like them and they re amazing but I can t help but wonder if I made a mistake getting one. The main reason I feel this way is: I do not have a garage. I live in a condo building and my building does not have charging for *EV*. I literally live adjacent to a hotel that has a Blink station but that has been broken since the middle of July and I have contacted both the hotel and Blink and I am not optimistic that it will be fixed any time soon. I live about ~2.5 miles from my work and there are charging options at work but they are quickly becoming crowded and I suspect it s only a matter of time before the free reign of those charging stations is reigned in and my access to it is limited if not entirely cut. I *do* have access to 110v plugs but at ~3mph they do not offer a lot of charge. There is also a Tesla Supercharger opening up about ~7 miles from me by the end of 2017 but who knows? I keep going back and forth on whether or not I made a good decision. When I get into the car and drive it I love it and I feel this was exactly what I needed. Then when I look down at the dash and see I only have 52 miles of charge left I begin to wonder if I will ever feel anything *but* range anxiety and if I ll ever be able to truly enjoy it. Did I make a mistake? I could use some reassuring words from my fellow Tesla family! | You drive 5 miles a day? You have access to work charging 110v charging and a SC not too far away. And you drive 5 miles a day. What s the problem? Your mistake is not getting a bicycle. Seriously get some exercise! | What s your location? | 88 | 2 | 1,536 |
6wuwk4 | 27 | Did I make a mistake getting a Tesla? They re wonderful cars. I ve never driven anything like them and they re amazing but I can t help but wonder if I made a mistake getting one. The main reason I feel this way is: I do not have a garage. I live in a condo building and my building does not have charging for *EV*. I literally live adjacent to a hotel that has a Blink station but that has been broken since the middle of July and I have contacted both the hotel and Blink and I am not optimistic that it will be fixed any time soon. I live about ~2.5 miles from my work and there are charging options at work but they are quickly becoming crowded and I suspect it s only a matter of time before the free reign of those charging stations is reigned in and my access to it is limited if not entirely cut. I *do* have access to 110v plugs but at ~3mph they do not offer a lot of charge. There is also a Tesla Supercharger opening up about ~7 miles from me by the end of 2017 but who knows? I keep going back and forth on whether or not I made a good decision. When I get into the car and drive it I love it and I feel this was exactly what I needed. Then when I look down at the dash and see I only have 52 miles of charge left I begin to wonder if I will ever feel anything *but* range anxiety and if I ll ever be able to truly enjoy it. Did I make a mistake? I could use some reassuring words from my fellow Tesla family! | You drive 5 miles a day? You have access to work charging 110v charging and a SC not too far away. And you drive 5 miles a day. What s the problem? Your mistake is not getting a bicycle. Seriously get some exercise! | What is the output of the charger at work? I m guessing it could be as low as 3kW but that s still about 10 mph charging. You could plan to go to work 30 minutes early once or twice a week to grab a charger and stay in the 50-90% range until the supercharger becomes an option. | 88 | 2 | 1,537 |
6wuwk4 | 27 | Did I make a mistake getting a Tesla? They re wonderful cars. I ve never driven anything like them and they re amazing but I can t help but wonder if I made a mistake getting one. The main reason I feel this way is: I do not have a garage. I live in a condo building and my building does not have charging for *EV*. I literally live adjacent to a hotel that has a Blink station but that has been broken since the middle of July and I have contacted both the hotel and Blink and I am not optimistic that it will be fixed any time soon. I live about ~2.5 miles from my work and there are charging options at work but they are quickly becoming crowded and I suspect it s only a matter of time before the free reign of those charging stations is reigned in and my access to it is limited if not entirely cut. I *do* have access to 110v plugs but at ~3mph they do not offer a lot of charge. There is also a Tesla Supercharger opening up about ~7 miles from me by the end of 2017 but who knows? I keep going back and forth on whether or not I made a good decision. When I get into the car and drive it I love it and I feel this was exactly what I needed. Then when I look down at the dash and see I only have 52 miles of charge left I begin to wonder if I will ever feel anything *but* range anxiety and if I ll ever be able to truly enjoy it. Did I make a mistake? I could use some reassuring words from my fellow Tesla family! | You drive 5 miles a day? You have access to work charging 110v charging and a SC not too far away. And you drive 5 miles a day. What s the problem? Your mistake is not getting a bicycle. Seriously get some exercise! | You have the right car. Now to help it work look for destination chargers close to you. Or things on the way to the Super Charger. There is an ice cream parlor on the way to our local SC :) Any electrician friends in your complex that know of a 220VAC plug close to where you park maybe a dryer or stove? | 88 | 2 | 1,538 |
6x4vuo | 111 | As gas prices rise to $2.49 gal and beyond due to Harvey as a Tesla owner... ... please be cool. Yes we will remain largely unaffected. Sure we ll be able to happily drive by the lines of cars that are starting to creep ever longer at gas stations. The articles that will appear about gas price spikes will be skimmed over a curiosity at most. But and here I m being completely serious this will negatively affect the American people outside of the already devastating effects it has had upon Houston and beyond. A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. A spike in gas prices will mean they won t be able to afford other things and sometimes those will be important things. As much as we like to toot our own horns about our sweet ass rides let s stay humble and sympathetic. I ve seen some comments start to show up that are... not cool. Let s don t go there. Please. | [R]ise to $2.49 gal ... Rise??? I can t remember the last time I saw gas that cheap! | Agree. I ve noticed over the past few days more people have been saying it s a shame that Tesla won t be able to profit on all the new car sales from Texas (due to sales restrictions) . I really hate this because Tesla s profit margins are honestly the last thing that people should be worrying about as people are losing their homes cars and belongings. These people are being forced to buy new cars because of necessity. Sure some of them can afford it but a lot of them could already be struggling and this flooding could easily put major setbacks in their life. Best wishes to all those affected | 82 | 4 | 1,539 |
6x4vuo | 111 | As gas prices rise to $2.49 gal and beyond due to Harvey as a Tesla owner... ... please be cool. Yes we will remain largely unaffected. Sure we ll be able to happily drive by the lines of cars that are starting to creep ever longer at gas stations. The articles that will appear about gas price spikes will be skimmed over a curiosity at most. But and here I m being completely serious this will negatively affect the American people outside of the already devastating effects it has had upon Houston and beyond. A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. A spike in gas prices will mean they won t be able to afford other things and sometimes those will be important things. As much as we like to toot our own horns about our sweet ass rides let s stay humble and sympathetic. I ve seen some comments start to show up that are... not cool. Let s don t go there. Please. | [R]ise to $2.49 gal ... Rise??? I can t remember the last time I saw gas that cheap! | The way I see it the higher the gas prices the more likely people will buy electric cars hybrids plugins and not huge SUV s and trucks they don t need. Where I live I d say 80%+ of vehicles are either large trucks or crossover SUVs. 95% of the time they are not hauling anything and only have a single person in them. I want more people to consider switching to EVs. All it takes is a test drive to show people why going electric is not only possible but better than gas vehicles. If it takes higher gas prices for them to even consider a EV I m ok with that. | 82 | 14 | 1,540 |
6x4vuo | 111 | As gas prices rise to $2.49 gal and beyond due to Harvey as a Tesla owner... ... please be cool. Yes we will remain largely unaffected. Sure we ll be able to happily drive by the lines of cars that are starting to creep ever longer at gas stations. The articles that will appear about gas price spikes will be skimmed over a curiosity at most. But and here I m being completely serious this will negatively affect the American people outside of the already devastating effects it has had upon Houston and beyond. A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. A spike in gas prices will mean they won t be able to afford other things and sometimes those will be important things. As much as we like to toot our own horns about our sweet ass rides let s stay humble and sympathetic. I ve seen some comments start to show up that are... not cool. Let s don t go there. Please. | [R]ise to $2.49 gal ... Rise??? I can t remember the last time I saw gas that cheap! | > A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. 76% of Americans in fact. | 82 | 36 | 1,541 |
6x83wa | 127 | Mobile Service--first experience OK I totally get that mobile service might not scale but it sure works nicely. My passenger side door had frozen shut. The handle presents but the door remains latched. This is the first issue I ve had with my 2.5 year old S85D with 60 000 km on it. I phoned the new Tesla store in Oakville Ontario (20 minutes down the highway from Hamilton where I work) and described the problem. No way to solve the issue OtA so we scheduled a visit to service centre for two weeks hence. I get an email yesterday from Tesla Oakville stating that they just got their mobile service van and this is just the kind of problem that they can drive right to my door to fix. Like tomorrow. At 9 if that s convenient. Wonderful! My Tesla pit crew complete with branded jackets and hats show up right on time at the parking lot where I work and a half hour later bam! door good as new again. We shook hands and off they went. We are living in that blessed transitional time when there aren t enough Tesla cars to overwhelm the infrastructure but enough for Tesla to have built some capacity. I m enjoying it while I can. | > OK I totally get that mobile service might not scale but it sure works nicely. I think it s the opposite. This is much more likely to scale than the service centres i think. Way easier to scale too. | And idea what the issue fix was? | 49 | 4 | 1,542 |
6x83wa | 127 | Mobile Service--first experience OK I totally get that mobile service might not scale but it sure works nicely. My passenger side door had frozen shut. The handle presents but the door remains latched. This is the first issue I ve had with my 2.5 year old S85D with 60 000 km on it. I phoned the new Tesla store in Oakville Ontario (20 minutes down the highway from Hamilton where I work) and described the problem. No way to solve the issue OtA so we scheduled a visit to service centre for two weeks hence. I get an email yesterday from Tesla Oakville stating that they just got their mobile service van and this is just the kind of problem that they can drive right to my door to fix. Like tomorrow. At 9 if that s convenient. Wonderful! My Tesla pit crew complete with branded jackets and hats show up right on time at the parking lot where I work and a half hour later bam! door good as new again. We shook hands and off they went. We are living in that blessed transitional time when there aren t enough Tesla cars to overwhelm the infrastructure but enough for Tesla to have built some capacity. I m enjoying it while I can. | > OK I totally get that mobile service might not scale but it sure works nicely. I think it s the opposite. This is much more likely to scale than the service centres i think. Way easier to scale too. | How much did you pay? Or is it free? | 49 | 7 | 1,543 |
6x9yj7 | 96 | Tesla called with Model 3 delivery ETA (Employee) So my wife works at Tesla and we had submitted our configuration for LR Premium model 3 right after the launch. She just got a call that the car would be ready around last week of September. Since buying a Tesla is unlike any other I had couple of questions - 1. Looks like the financing options specifically for Model 3 listed on their website were pretty bad. IRC it was something like 2.75% through Alliant CU. I recently (3 months ago) financed a new Honda for 0.99% APR. What are my options in the Bay Area or beyond to get a more favorable rate? We both have excellent credit score and history. 2. We have 2 cars that we are planning on trading-in or selling privately. What is the trade-in experience with Tesla like? I don t want to get ripped off like most of the dealers do on trade-ins. I saw that some mentioned they honor appraisals from carmax. Is that still the case? Any other ideas to maximize my return on the trade-in. Thanks! | For our Jetta Tesla offered $2 000 or so Carmax $3 600 sold it privately for $5 600 to the first person to look at it. | I cant help with financing stuff but do you mind sharing what the initial delivery estimator said? Oh and congrats!! | 62 | 3 | 1,544 |
6x9yj7 | 96 | Tesla called with Model 3 delivery ETA (Employee) So my wife works at Tesla and we had submitted our configuration for LR Premium model 3 right after the launch. She just got a call that the car would be ready around last week of September. Since buying a Tesla is unlike any other I had couple of questions - 1. Looks like the financing options specifically for Model 3 listed on their website were pretty bad. IRC it was something like 2.75% through Alliant CU. I recently (3 months ago) financed a new Honda for 0.99% APR. What are my options in the Bay Area or beyond to get a more favorable rate? We both have excellent credit score and history. 2. We have 2 cars that we are planning on trading-in or selling privately. What is the trade-in experience with Tesla like? I don t want to get ripped off like most of the dealers do on trade-ins. I saw that some mentioned they honor appraisals from carmax. Is that still the case? Any other ideas to maximize my return on the trade-in. Thanks! | My tesla agent flat out told me that tesla isn t in the business of buying gas cars and I would be better off going to just about anywhere else. | I cant help with financing stuff but do you mind sharing what the initial delivery estimator said? Oh and congrats!! | 56 | 3 | 1,545 |
6x9yj7 | 96 | Tesla called with Model 3 delivery ETA (Employee) So my wife works at Tesla and we had submitted our configuration for LR Premium model 3 right after the launch. She just got a call that the car would be ready around last week of September. Since buying a Tesla is unlike any other I had couple of questions - 1. Looks like the financing options specifically for Model 3 listed on their website were pretty bad. IRC it was something like 2.75% through Alliant CU. I recently (3 months ago) financed a new Honda for 0.99% APR. What are my options in the Bay Area or beyond to get a more favorable rate? We both have excellent credit score and history. 2. We have 2 cars that we are planning on trading-in or selling privately. What is the trade-in experience with Tesla like? I don t want to get ripped off like most of the dealers do on trade-ins. I saw that some mentioned they honor appraisals from carmax. Is that still the case? Any other ideas to maximize my return on the trade-in. Thanks! | For our Jetta Tesla offered $2 000 or so Carmax $3 600 sold it privately for $5 600 to the first person to look at it. | Oh ho my friend - you are about to field a lot of questions! In terms of question 2 I believe that Carmax is who Tesla use. I m not stateside so have no knowledge of them. General view is that you will get less for your cars than selling independently. Dependant on age and condition I would advise to at least check what you would get if you sold them privately. | 62 | 13 | 1,546 |
6xh690 | 36 | If we are due for an interior update on the S what would people like to see included? Would people like the minimalistic 3 approach? Oled screens Key fob gone inductive phone charging better materials? Trying to see whatis on the wish list. Perhaps some new features? | Side pockets on the doors space on the right side of the accelerator to rest the right foot on while on AP having the center screen behind a glass which is much bigger and makes the center one big continious surface where the sceen is just a part of. | heated cooled cup holders ? usb-c ? rear screens ? Inductive phone chargers are brand dependent so it s not doable. however going forward fully implemented usb-c can allow quick charging of phones and larger devices such as laptop | 33 | 2 | 1,547 |
6xh690 | 36 | If we are due for an interior update on the S what would people like to see included? Would people like the minimalistic 3 approach? Oled screens Key fob gone inductive phone charging better materials? Trying to see whatis on the wish list. Perhaps some new features? | Side pockets on the doors space on the right side of the accelerator to rest the right foot on while on AP having the center screen behind a glass which is much bigger and makes the center one big continious surface where the sceen is just a part of. | The new Model 3 dash and autopilot controls. | 33 | 3 | 1,548 |
6xh690 | 36 | If we are due for an interior update on the S what would people like to see included? Would people like the minimalistic 3 approach? Oled screens Key fob gone inductive phone charging better materials? Trying to see whatis on the wish list. Perhaps some new features? | Side pockets on the doors space on the right side of the accelerator to rest the right foot on while on AP having the center screen behind a glass which is much bigger and makes the center one big continious surface where the sceen is just a part of. | Basically keep the large center screen and lack of buttons but copy everything else from an S-Class. | 33 | 3 | 1,549 |
6xmijh | 206 | Tesla should follow Dominoes Tracker lead on ordering. My husband made this and it accurately describes what we are going through right now. https: imgur.com znyeYO5 | Once you actually place an order you get something just like that (or did a year ago). The issue is that their backend is really bad and it doesn t tell you anything useful because it just sits sits and sits and then they call you telling you your car is ready. | And here I thought you were going to say tesla should actually put some of their self driving cars on the street ) | 37 | 10 | 1,550 |
6xpetb | 201 | Turned in my BMW lease and took delivery of 2017 Model S! Initial review and thoughts....(Long) So as the title states I just took delivery of a 2017 Model S 75 that was ordered on July 5th. So my model S should have the new motor (4.3s) however no Air Suspension. But Tesla did give me a discount and threw in the cold weather package for free which I originally did not opt for. All in all I got a total of $4000 discount including the referral. [Picture Here](https: imgur.com a k26VK) I want to share a bit of review with everyone. To give a little background before my review. This is the first electric car and previously I ve owned and leased 3 BMWs. The latest being a 2015 435 Gran Coupé. So I may be a little bias towards BMW since I m so used to them. Plus it s only been two days since I took delivery...so I am still learning the Model S - if anyone knows any tip and tricks... I am open to suggestions and criticism! Short review first: **Tesla Pros ** *Ordering process super easy - all online and via email. *Delivery process took all of 7 minutes to sign my signature 36 times~ish and did a quick walk through *The car drives very futuristic the instant power is awesome I have feeling I will need to replace tires often... *Very roomy both from and back seats *Full keyboard to enter navigation is a breeze *USB phone dock is great *Auto unlock garage door when I arrive *Car app to unlock and air condition the car is neat **The not so great on Tesla vs BMW ** *No top down camera *No side camera *No USB audio *No Music playlist *Audio resumes when car is unlocked *Does not lock immediately when walked away *Have to take out key to lock unlock trunk *Lack of door storage *Navigation color does not change after driven on the path *Dome light shuts off quickly *Mirrors are tiny *Visors are tiny no light **Long Long Long Review** I ll go over the negatives in some detail. *No top down camera - It was hard for me to park the model S due to it being longer by 12 and wider by 5 than my 435 without the top down camera I had a hard time gauging where the curb is. I m sure with time I will learn to drive with my model S. *No side camera - ever try to exit a street but the parked cars are obstructing your view of incoming traffic? It goes like this for most people - inching forward slowly while testing your rubber necking skills towards the windshield to see all while some asshole is honking behind you to go. Well BMW has the side cameras on front side bumper so you can see the traffic coming by without straining your neck or be afraid to cause an accident. A really nice feature. *No USB audio Music playlist - This pretty self explanatory. Having to look down at my phone to change play list is pretty counter intuitive instead of being able to select it from on screen. This is something Tesla can easily fix no? *Audio resumes when car is unlocked - I had left some stuff in the car and when I walked closer the doors unlocked and started the bluetooth audio from my phone automatically... while I think the concept is great I wish there is an option to change it that only when I press brake an indication that I am actually going to drive or when I press play that it resumes audio playback. This is how it s done in BMW it only starts to resume when car is in pre-start or engine is fired up. Another easy fix for Tesla no? *Door does not lock immediately when walked away - I understand that it does lock when I am far enough away but I feel that it does not lock fast enough. I was at home depot picking up some items and when I walked away about 3 parking spaces that the door handles were still out. Anyone could have snuck in since the door was unlocked. With the model S now I have been just clicking the key to lock instead. I much prefer the BMW comfort access touch the door handle to lock immediately. In fact over the last two BMWs I ve developed an habit to always touch the door when I close it and hear the lock sound. *Have to take out key to lock unlock trunk - I have to take out my key to unlock the trunk there is no foot kick motion to open or close. This defeats the purpose of always being able to keep your key in your pocket increases chance of losing key. *Lack of door storage - This is self explanatory *Navigation color does not change after driven on the path - So it stays blue even though you ve driven though it. I think this is fine in suburban areas but in a downtown area with one way streets and such it gets confusing. BMW and several other navigation systems will have the path turn a different color - another easy Tesla fix via software right? *Dome light shuts off quickly - Typically in my previous vehicles the dome light stays on when the door is still open but the dome light in Model S shuts off about 1 minute or 2? Anyone else know how to adjust this feature? *Mirrors are tiny Visors are tiny with no light - I understand this may be a personal preference but with such a big car the visibility around the vehicle is not great. I would also say the A pillar really blocks lots of corner view. I am really looking forward to the Enhanced Auto Pilot - supposedly I have to drive 100 to 150 miles before it finish calibrating. | [I made these for people that are just starting out with a Model S. I hope some of the videos make life with the Tesla a little better.](https: www.youtube.com user rcnfive playlists) They are very short videos like very short. Oh almost forgot welcome to the family. | Congratulations on the car! > *No top down camera - It was hard for me to park the model S due to it being longer by 12 and wider by 5 than my 435 without the top down camera I had a hard time gauging where the curb is. I m sure with time I will learn to drive with my model S. Have you enabled [mirror auto-tilt](https: i.imgur.com K7ZWnZJ.jpg)? | 51 | 14 | 1,551 |
6xpetb | 201 | Turned in my BMW lease and took delivery of 2017 Model S! Initial review and thoughts....(Long) So as the title states I just took delivery of a 2017 Model S 75 that was ordered on July 5th. So my model S should have the new motor (4.3s) however no Air Suspension. But Tesla did give me a discount and threw in the cold weather package for free which I originally did not opt for. All in all I got a total of $4000 discount including the referral. [Picture Here](https: imgur.com a k26VK) I want to share a bit of review with everyone. To give a little background before my review. This is the first electric car and previously I ve owned and leased 3 BMWs. The latest being a 2015 435 Gran Coupé. So I may be a little bias towards BMW since I m so used to them. Plus it s only been two days since I took delivery...so I am still learning the Model S - if anyone knows any tip and tricks... I am open to suggestions and criticism! Short review first: **Tesla Pros ** *Ordering process super easy - all online and via email. *Delivery process took all of 7 minutes to sign my signature 36 times~ish and did a quick walk through *The car drives very futuristic the instant power is awesome I have feeling I will need to replace tires often... *Very roomy both from and back seats *Full keyboard to enter navigation is a breeze *USB phone dock is great *Auto unlock garage door when I arrive *Car app to unlock and air condition the car is neat **The not so great on Tesla vs BMW ** *No top down camera *No side camera *No USB audio *No Music playlist *Audio resumes when car is unlocked *Does not lock immediately when walked away *Have to take out key to lock unlock trunk *Lack of door storage *Navigation color does not change after driven on the path *Dome light shuts off quickly *Mirrors are tiny *Visors are tiny no light **Long Long Long Review** I ll go over the negatives in some detail. *No top down camera - It was hard for me to park the model S due to it being longer by 12 and wider by 5 than my 435 without the top down camera I had a hard time gauging where the curb is. I m sure with time I will learn to drive with my model S. *No side camera - ever try to exit a street but the parked cars are obstructing your view of incoming traffic? It goes like this for most people - inching forward slowly while testing your rubber necking skills towards the windshield to see all while some asshole is honking behind you to go. Well BMW has the side cameras on front side bumper so you can see the traffic coming by without straining your neck or be afraid to cause an accident. A really nice feature. *No USB audio Music playlist - This pretty self explanatory. Having to look down at my phone to change play list is pretty counter intuitive instead of being able to select it from on screen. This is something Tesla can easily fix no? *Audio resumes when car is unlocked - I had left some stuff in the car and when I walked closer the doors unlocked and started the bluetooth audio from my phone automatically... while I think the concept is great I wish there is an option to change it that only when I press brake an indication that I am actually going to drive or when I press play that it resumes audio playback. This is how it s done in BMW it only starts to resume when car is in pre-start or engine is fired up. Another easy fix for Tesla no? *Door does not lock immediately when walked away - I understand that it does lock when I am far enough away but I feel that it does not lock fast enough. I was at home depot picking up some items and when I walked away about 3 parking spaces that the door handles were still out. Anyone could have snuck in since the door was unlocked. With the model S now I have been just clicking the key to lock instead. I much prefer the BMW comfort access touch the door handle to lock immediately. In fact over the last two BMWs I ve developed an habit to always touch the door when I close it and hear the lock sound. *Have to take out key to lock unlock trunk - I have to take out my key to unlock the trunk there is no foot kick motion to open or close. This defeats the purpose of always being able to keep your key in your pocket increases chance of losing key. *Lack of door storage - This is self explanatory *Navigation color does not change after driven on the path - So it stays blue even though you ve driven though it. I think this is fine in suburban areas but in a downtown area with one way streets and such it gets confusing. BMW and several other navigation systems will have the path turn a different color - another easy Tesla fix via software right? *Dome light shuts off quickly - Typically in my previous vehicles the dome light stays on when the door is still open but the dome light in Model S shuts off about 1 minute or 2? Anyone else know how to adjust this feature? *Mirrors are tiny Visors are tiny with no light - I understand this may be a personal preference but with such a big car the visibility around the vehicle is not great. I would also say the A pillar really blocks lots of corner view. I am really looking forward to the Enhanced Auto Pilot - supposedly I have to drive 100 to 150 miles before it finish calibrating. | [I made these for people that are just starting out with a Model S. I hope some of the videos make life with the Tesla a little better.](https: www.youtube.com user rcnfive playlists) They are very short videos like very short. Oh almost forgot welcome to the family. | You can open the trunk from the touchscreen and obviously from touching the button on the trunk itself You can load a tIny USB drive with music and just leave it plugged in. That s what I do. | 51 | 22 | 1,552 |
6xpetb | 201 | Turned in my BMW lease and took delivery of 2017 Model S! Initial review and thoughts....(Long) So as the title states I just took delivery of a 2017 Model S 75 that was ordered on July 5th. So my model S should have the new motor (4.3s) however no Air Suspension. But Tesla did give me a discount and threw in the cold weather package for free which I originally did not opt for. All in all I got a total of $4000 discount including the referral. [Picture Here](https: imgur.com a k26VK) I want to share a bit of review with everyone. To give a little background before my review. This is the first electric car and previously I ve owned and leased 3 BMWs. The latest being a 2015 435 Gran Coupé. So I may be a little bias towards BMW since I m so used to them. Plus it s only been two days since I took delivery...so I am still learning the Model S - if anyone knows any tip and tricks... I am open to suggestions and criticism! Short review first: **Tesla Pros ** *Ordering process super easy - all online and via email. *Delivery process took all of 7 minutes to sign my signature 36 times~ish and did a quick walk through *The car drives very futuristic the instant power is awesome I have feeling I will need to replace tires often... *Very roomy both from and back seats *Full keyboard to enter navigation is a breeze *USB phone dock is great *Auto unlock garage door when I arrive *Car app to unlock and air condition the car is neat **The not so great on Tesla vs BMW ** *No top down camera *No side camera *No USB audio *No Music playlist *Audio resumes when car is unlocked *Does not lock immediately when walked away *Have to take out key to lock unlock trunk *Lack of door storage *Navigation color does not change after driven on the path *Dome light shuts off quickly *Mirrors are tiny *Visors are tiny no light **Long Long Long Review** I ll go over the negatives in some detail. *No top down camera - It was hard for me to park the model S due to it being longer by 12 and wider by 5 than my 435 without the top down camera I had a hard time gauging where the curb is. I m sure with time I will learn to drive with my model S. *No side camera - ever try to exit a street but the parked cars are obstructing your view of incoming traffic? It goes like this for most people - inching forward slowly while testing your rubber necking skills towards the windshield to see all while some asshole is honking behind you to go. Well BMW has the side cameras on front side bumper so you can see the traffic coming by without straining your neck or be afraid to cause an accident. A really nice feature. *No USB audio Music playlist - This pretty self explanatory. Having to look down at my phone to change play list is pretty counter intuitive instead of being able to select it from on screen. This is something Tesla can easily fix no? *Audio resumes when car is unlocked - I had left some stuff in the car and when I walked closer the doors unlocked and started the bluetooth audio from my phone automatically... while I think the concept is great I wish there is an option to change it that only when I press brake an indication that I am actually going to drive or when I press play that it resumes audio playback. This is how it s done in BMW it only starts to resume when car is in pre-start or engine is fired up. Another easy fix for Tesla no? *Door does not lock immediately when walked away - I understand that it does lock when I am far enough away but I feel that it does not lock fast enough. I was at home depot picking up some items and when I walked away about 3 parking spaces that the door handles were still out. Anyone could have snuck in since the door was unlocked. With the model S now I have been just clicking the key to lock instead. I much prefer the BMW comfort access touch the door handle to lock immediately. In fact over the last two BMWs I ve developed an habit to always touch the door when I close it and hear the lock sound. *Have to take out key to lock unlock trunk - I have to take out my key to unlock the trunk there is no foot kick motion to open or close. This defeats the purpose of always being able to keep your key in your pocket increases chance of losing key. *Lack of door storage - This is self explanatory *Navigation color does not change after driven on the path - So it stays blue even though you ve driven though it. I think this is fine in suburban areas but in a downtown area with one way streets and such it gets confusing. BMW and several other navigation systems will have the path turn a different color - another easy Tesla fix via software right? *Dome light shuts off quickly - Typically in my previous vehicles the dome light stays on when the door is still open but the dome light in Model S shuts off about 1 minute or 2? Anyone else know how to adjust this feature? *Mirrors are tiny Visors are tiny with no light - I understand this may be a personal preference but with such a big car the visibility around the vehicle is not great. I would also say the A pillar really blocks lots of corner view. I am really looking forward to the Enhanced Auto Pilot - supposedly I have to drive 100 to 150 miles before it finish calibrating. | note to legacy dealerships: his ordering process was easy and on-line | I can play Music from USB. What did you try? | 31 | 3 | 1,553 |
6xx5nj | 44 | Model S P85 for 39k used ... worth it? 26k miles Hi just wondering if this P85 for 39k is worth the price? 26k miles on odo. 2014 year make https: cargur.us jwkFl https: www.cargurus.com Cars l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-Harrison-d2039_L21699?sourceContext=shareLink_true_0#listing=181890384 Hopefully I got the link right. Thoughts? | My Money is this is a Scam. Its quite common. Search the Vin you ll find this supposedly NJ car showing up in Michigan. Typical deal is the car is listed for 15-20k below book guy will ask for a deposit to hold it and the car was actually a picture vin taken from another ad someplace else with either the same or a different description and a different price. Here s another listing for the same car for alot more $$: http: www.autoquid.com car-detail model-s 2014-Tesla-Model-S-P85-Tesla-Model-S-P85-with_112399732022.html | It depends what you re looking for really | 76 | 5 | 1,554 |
6xx5nj | 44 | Model S P85 for 39k used ... worth it? 26k miles Hi just wondering if this P85 for 39k is worth the price? 26k miles on odo. 2014 year make https: cargur.us jwkFl https: www.cargurus.com Cars l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-Harrison-d2039_L21699?sourceContext=shareLink_true_0#listing=181890384 Hopefully I got the link right. Thoughts? | My Money is this is a Scam. Its quite common. Search the Vin you ll find this supposedly NJ car showing up in Michigan. Typical deal is the car is listed for 15-20k below book guy will ask for a deposit to hold it and the car was actually a picture vin taken from another ad someplace else with either the same or a different description and a different price. Here s another listing for the same car for alot more $$: http: www.autoquid.com car-detail model-s 2014-Tesla-Model-S-P85-Tesla-Model-S-P85-with_112399732022.html | Seems like a nice deal. It *might* have AutoPilot but probably not. Check the rearview mirror on the outside for a forward-facing camera. They appeared in late 2014. The listing says Camera System . If it has AP1 it s a steal. Otherwise it still seems like a good deal. Since it s not a CPO (Tesla used) it won t have their reconditioning and warranty which is a shortcoming. | 76 | 8 | 1,555 |
6xx5nj | 44 | Model S P85 for 39k used ... worth it? 26k miles Hi just wondering if this P85 for 39k is worth the price? 26k miles on odo. 2014 year make https: cargur.us jwkFl https: www.cargurus.com Cars l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-Harrison-d2039_L21699?sourceContext=shareLink_true_0#listing=181890384 Hopefully I got the link right. Thoughts? | My Money is this is a Scam. Its quite common. Search the Vin you ll find this supposedly NJ car showing up in Michigan. Typical deal is the car is listed for 15-20k below book guy will ask for a deposit to hold it and the car was actually a picture vin taken from another ad someplace else with either the same or a different description and a different price. Here s another listing for the same car for alot more $$: http: www.autoquid.com car-detail model-s 2014-Tesla-Model-S-P85-Tesla-Model-S-P85-with_112399732022.html | Yes that s a suspiciously good deal. Maybe a listing mistake or there is something wrong with it. | 76 | 9 | 1,556 |
6xz5z0 | 92 | The Model 3 s aero wheels s 10% efficiency. Is that in addition or subtraction of the advertised range? We all know the leak says the aero wheels in the Model 3 can increase range by up to 10%. However does that mean if I keep the aero wheels on I would get 10% in addition to the 310 LR advertised miles or will I get 310 only if I keep the aero wheels on? If it was mentioned before then I apologize for asking again but I feel like that was never specified in the leak or mentioned anywhere in this subreddit. And if there s no answers yes I know... “no one knows yet wait for the reveal”. | Hi. I have recently discovered how EPA rated range tests are performed and calculated from dyno scores. Based on what I have found I can tell you the following: 1. Aero wheel cover efficiency is not included in the 220 mi or 310 mi numbers because the test procedure includes absolutely nothing about air drag. A car shaped like a box would score the same EPA rated range as another car that s very aerodynamic because EPA lets car manufacturers to use the 0.7 multiplier to convert dyno range to EPA rated range if they don t want to bother calculating more precise multipliers. In fact almost all car makers use the same formula which is this one: EPA rated range= round(70%x(0.55xUDDS city range + 0.45xHWFET highway range)) 2. Tesla is sandbagging the 310 miles number. The actual number is 352 miles or slightly more. They are waiting for the Model S X to switch to permanent magnet motors too. The Model S X numbers will increase 5% after the switch. After that Tesla will release the less sandbagged Model 3 numbers. 3. EPA allows car manufacturers to under report range numbers. Tesla has done it many times. This is mentioned multiple times in EPA documents. The documents use the term voluntarily lowered . [Here](https: i.imgur.com qq0CyVg.gif) is a screenshot. In all instances Tesla voluntarily lowered the EPA rated range it only happened to Model S variants and never to the Model X. In other words so far Tesla used this method to make the range gap between S and X look smaller. Now they are using it for the Model 3. 4. EPA rated range is calculated using 2 dyno scores. The 5 cycle test does not actually include 5 different tests. They do only 2 tests and then use multipliers to calculate the rest. 5. I m pretty sure my findings are correct because I could calculate the EPA rated range numbers of all Model X versions with 100% accuracy from the 2 dyno scores of each variant. If you want to find out more about this topic start reading [here](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc posts 2259767 ) and continue reading the rest of my messages in that thread. I m happy to answer questions about this topic. Cheers Troy | The wheels and the tires do play an important part in drag coefficient and energy requirement for motion. The study below concluded that when traveling at higher velocities considerable savings can be achieved if you have efficient tires and wheel covers. http: iopscience.iop.org article 10.1088 1742-6596 760 1 012014 pdf | 84 | 4 | 1,557 |
6xz5z0 | 92 | The Model 3 s aero wheels s 10% efficiency. Is that in addition or subtraction of the advertised range? We all know the leak says the aero wheels in the Model 3 can increase range by up to 10%. However does that mean if I keep the aero wheels on I would get 10% in addition to the 310 LR advertised miles or will I get 310 only if I keep the aero wheels on? If it was mentioned before then I apologize for asking again but I feel like that was never specified in the leak or mentioned anywhere in this subreddit. And if there s no answers yes I know... “no one knows yet wait for the reveal”. | Hi. I have recently discovered how EPA rated range tests are performed and calculated from dyno scores. Based on what I have found I can tell you the following: 1. Aero wheel cover efficiency is not included in the 220 mi or 310 mi numbers because the test procedure includes absolutely nothing about air drag. A car shaped like a box would score the same EPA rated range as another car that s very aerodynamic because EPA lets car manufacturers to use the 0.7 multiplier to convert dyno range to EPA rated range if they don t want to bother calculating more precise multipliers. In fact almost all car makers use the same formula which is this one: EPA rated range= round(70%x(0.55xUDDS city range + 0.45xHWFET highway range)) 2. Tesla is sandbagging the 310 miles number. The actual number is 352 miles or slightly more. They are waiting for the Model S X to switch to permanent magnet motors too. The Model S X numbers will increase 5% after the switch. After that Tesla will release the less sandbagged Model 3 numbers. 3. EPA allows car manufacturers to under report range numbers. Tesla has done it many times. This is mentioned multiple times in EPA documents. The documents use the term voluntarily lowered . [Here](https: i.imgur.com qq0CyVg.gif) is a screenshot. In all instances Tesla voluntarily lowered the EPA rated range it only happened to Model S variants and never to the Model X. In other words so far Tesla used this method to make the range gap between S and X look smaller. Now they are using it for the Model 3. 4. EPA rated range is calculated using 2 dyno scores. The 5 cycle test does not actually include 5 different tests. They do only 2 tests and then use multipliers to calculate the rest. 5. I m pretty sure my findings are correct because I could calculate the EPA rated range numbers of all Model X versions with 100% accuracy from the 2 dyno scores of each variant. If you want to find out more about this topic start reading [here](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc posts 2259767 ) and continue reading the rest of my messages in that thread. I m happy to answer questions about this topic. Cheers Troy | So to extend on OP. Does a model 3 with 19 wheels (non aero) have 10% more battvery? That is doubtful. I tend to believe that in a very specific set of circumstances the aero wheels can provide as much as a 10% improvement in range vs a control. Possibly cruising at 80 mph or something not the driving spectrum of the EPA test. | 84 | 5 | 1,558 |
6xz5z0 | 92 | The Model 3 s aero wheels s 10% efficiency. Is that in addition or subtraction of the advertised range? We all know the leak says the aero wheels in the Model 3 can increase range by up to 10%. However does that mean if I keep the aero wheels on I would get 10% in addition to the 310 LR advertised miles or will I get 310 only if I keep the aero wheels on? If it was mentioned before then I apologize for asking again but I feel like that was never specified in the leak or mentioned anywhere in this subreddit. And if there s no answers yes I know... “no one knows yet wait for the reveal”. | Hi. I have recently discovered how EPA rated range tests are performed and calculated from dyno scores. Based on what I have found I can tell you the following: 1. Aero wheel cover efficiency is not included in the 220 mi or 310 mi numbers because the test procedure includes absolutely nothing about air drag. A car shaped like a box would score the same EPA rated range as another car that s very aerodynamic because EPA lets car manufacturers to use the 0.7 multiplier to convert dyno range to EPA rated range if they don t want to bother calculating more precise multipliers. In fact almost all car makers use the same formula which is this one: EPA rated range= round(70%x(0.55xUDDS city range + 0.45xHWFET highway range)) 2. Tesla is sandbagging the 310 miles number. The actual number is 352 miles or slightly more. They are waiting for the Model S X to switch to permanent magnet motors too. The Model S X numbers will increase 5% after the switch. After that Tesla will release the less sandbagged Model 3 numbers. 3. EPA allows car manufacturers to under report range numbers. Tesla has done it many times. This is mentioned multiple times in EPA documents. The documents use the term voluntarily lowered . [Here](https: i.imgur.com qq0CyVg.gif) is a screenshot. In all instances Tesla voluntarily lowered the EPA rated range it only happened to Model S variants and never to the Model X. In other words so far Tesla used this method to make the range gap between S and X look smaller. Now they are using it for the Model 3. 4. EPA rated range is calculated using 2 dyno scores. The 5 cycle test does not actually include 5 different tests. They do only 2 tests and then use multipliers to calculate the rest. 5. I m pretty sure my findings are correct because I could calculate the EPA rated range numbers of all Model X versions with 100% accuracy from the 2 dyno scores of each variant. If you want to find out more about this topic start reading [here](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc posts 2259767 ) and continue reading the rest of my messages in that thread. I m happy to answer questions about this topic. Cheers Troy | EPA ratings are for the base car configured as delivered. This means it ll include the Aero wheels. | 84 | 5 | 1,559 |
6ygn04 | 112 | Cancelled Model 3 reservation received deposit refund in 21 days After the reveal I was underwhelmed by the Model 3. I submitted my cancellation on August 9th and just received my refund in the form of a check on September 2nd. Just adding another data point to the mix. | Sweet! Movin on up in the list! | When did you make your original reservation? | 65 | 6 | 1,560 |
6ygn04 | 112 | Cancelled Model 3 reservation received deposit refund in 21 days After the reveal I was underwhelmed by the Model 3. I submitted my cancellation on August 9th and just received my refund in the form of a check on September 2nd. Just adding another data point to the mix. | Curious to hear what specifically underwhelmed you and what you had anticipations of which were not met? | When did you make your original reservation? | 50 | 6 | 1,561 |
6yh413 | 43 | New 2018 Nissan Leaf is revealed what does this mean for Tesla? https: www.nissanusa.com electric-cars 2018-leaf https: cleantechnica.com 2017 09 05 nissan-unveils-redesigned-2018-nissan-leaf-with-400-km-range-propilot-autonomous-driving-features http: www.motortrend.com cars nissan leaf 2018 2018-nissan-leaf-first-drive-review Nissan has finally unveiled the new Leaf with a smaller range (150 miles) than a model 3 but less price ($30k vs 35k for the base model). What does Tesla as a company have to think about this? Supposedly a 210 mile version is coming in 2019 (60 kWh pack) but for now Nissan seems to be targeting the zero road trip 2 car commuter only piece of the market rather than trying to go heads up against Tesla model 3. Will this help expand the overall EV market and charger demand? Or would Tesla rather see more cars like the Bolt to expand the EV segment. Nissan also has it s ProPilot in this car. How does ProPilot stack up against Tesla Autopilot? Power wise no doubt the new leaf at 147 hp is more than before but it s not much compared to the Model 3 at 258 hp. Is there a benefit to going for the lower hp (e.g. lower price) or could Tesla benefit from a lower power car? Finally Nissan is sticking with the CHAdeMO standard. When will we eventually see a unified standard among EV charging vendors? Will Tesla lead that charge or will they always have the superchargers be separate and simply put in an adapter in for whatever the rest of the industry goes with? | It s going to sell *really* well and I wouldn t be surprised to see it outsell the Model 3 by a fair margin in some regions. Especially in europe most people have fairly short commutes and a Leaf covers 99.9% of their driving needs. Cheap + good options + decent range = best seller potential. What does it mean for Tesla? The Model 3 will see some competition but I don t think it will change much overall. | The Model S 40 is back! - basically. | 38 | 6 | 1,562 |
6ylngw | 60 | Who Else is Evac ing From Miami? Just saw the mandatory evac news. Hopefully the Superchargers aren t too clogged. Good luck to yall! | You mean *EV*ac ing right? | For what it s worth the St Augustine supercharger I drive by daily has been wide open this week. Just a red X yesterday afternoon nothing this morning. Confession: I ve checked it out daily for at least a year. Someday this spring my 3 will be here. | 36 | 3 | 1,563 |
6ylngw | 60 | Who Else is Evac ing From Miami? Just saw the mandatory evac news. Hopefully the Superchargers aren t too clogged. Good luck to yall! | You mean *EV*ac ing right? | I m staying put. Yeah I m curious what the SC situation looks like out there. Does anyone have any pics? | 36 | 9 | 1,564 |
6ylngw | 60 | Who Else is Evac ing From Miami? Just saw the mandatory evac news. Hopefully the Superchargers aren t too clogged. Good luck to yall! | You mean *EV*ac ing right? | Yesterday on the news it was widely reported that 25% of gas stations were out of gas. Lines were a mile long. And superchargers are empty? That s amazing. | 36 | 9 | 1,565 |
6yn8jb | 570 | Cancelled my Model 3 deposit. I received the refund in 7 days. I didnt know we were collecting this data. I m a student again so I need the money to survive. After I graduate and hopefully find gainful employment I fully intend on purchasing a model 3 but as of now I need books and ramen noodles. | Good on you OP for realizing that wants and needs are two separate things. Too many folks fail to acknowledge that. | RIP been going back and forth back and forth. I ll most likely be going to back to get my MBA soon so I m in your boat. Could I do it? Sure. Should I? Nah. Gonna wait a few years and buy that bad boy with cash. Used of course! | 369 | 29 | 1,566 |
6yn8jb | 570 | Cancelled my Model 3 deposit. I received the refund in 7 days. I didnt know we were collecting this data. I m a student again so I need the money to survive. After I graduate and hopefully find gainful employment I fully intend on purchasing a model 3 but as of now I need books and ramen noodles. | What a show-off coming in here bragging that the model 3 you ll eventually get will be vastly superior to the ones us reservation holders get! s Good call waiting it out overextending for a car (even an awesome car) is one of the most common first steps to a financial disaster. | RIP been going back and forth back and forth. I ll most likely be going to back to get my MBA soon so I m in your boat. Could I do it? Sure. Should I? Nah. Gonna wait a few years and buy that bad boy with cash. Used of course! | 214 | 29 | 1,567 |
6ynd43 | 48 | I will always want to be able to own and drive my own car. How about you? I personally think this idea that no one is going to want to own a car anymore is overblown. I personally love driving just not in heavy traffic. I love my car and I don t expect to ever stop owning my own car. I will not however buy a car that is built on the assumption that I don t ever want to drive it. The one gripe I have with Elon s implied vision (based on some statements that were made to explain lack of certain driving features in the model 3 - ie - this isn t needed because the car is going to be self-driving) is a design direction that assumes implies that shortly no one will ever WANT to drive the car. Elon would be correct if he thinks people like me don t want to own that kind of car (this is not the model 3 but a next-gen vehicle built to never be driven or hardly at all) but that doesn t mean we don t want to own a car at all... I don t want to be an eternal passenger I want a driver s car but one that also takes away the hateful drudgery of rush hour driving and gives me convenience like summoning when I want it and the rest of the time lets me take the wheel and have fun with MY car. And by the way I don t care if the economics say it is cheaper to not own a car and have it always drive itself. That s simply not the experience I want so the economics of that world are immaterial to me. I don t care if it s free. I still want to drive my own car. | I will never buy a vehicle that doesn t have a horse attached to it. I love the rush as I use the whip to direct my vehicle around. The one gripe I have with Henry s implied vision is that shortly no one will want to care for a living thing just because it is a mode of transport. I don t care if it is cheaper and means cleaning less horse feces that s simply not the experience I want. I mean I hear you and you are definitely not alone. However the reign of the ICE vehicle with driver is slowly (but surely) sliding towards its end. It wasn t that long ago that there were *no* cars so it is a little extreme to imply that driving a car yourself is some sort of existential requirement. The world will change no matter how loudly the present yells at the future to get off of its lawn. Beyond that the parts of driving a car that thrill you (likely control speed power etc.) may actually be better explored in another avenue -- divorced from your need for transportation. Maybe that will be driving race cars or maybe a sport. I can confidently say that as much as I enjoy driving I will be quite happy relaxing as an eternal passenger and finding other more productive outlets for my driving-related desires without having to feed them every time I realize we are out of milk at 2:00 in the morning. | Until the government says that humans are a liability you have nothing to worry about. Or insurance companies decide not to insure unless it s a self-driving only vehicle in the future ...? Who knows at this point. This is best for r SelfDrivingCars as discussions like this happen all the time I m sure. | 121 | 12 | 1,568 |
6ynd43 | 48 | I will always want to be able to own and drive my own car. How about you? I personally think this idea that no one is going to want to own a car anymore is overblown. I personally love driving just not in heavy traffic. I love my car and I don t expect to ever stop owning my own car. I will not however buy a car that is built on the assumption that I don t ever want to drive it. The one gripe I have with Elon s implied vision (based on some statements that were made to explain lack of certain driving features in the model 3 - ie - this isn t needed because the car is going to be self-driving) is a design direction that assumes implies that shortly no one will ever WANT to drive the car. Elon would be correct if he thinks people like me don t want to own that kind of car (this is not the model 3 but a next-gen vehicle built to never be driven or hardly at all) but that doesn t mean we don t want to own a car at all... I don t want to be an eternal passenger I want a driver s car but one that also takes away the hateful drudgery of rush hour driving and gives me convenience like summoning when I want it and the rest of the time lets me take the wheel and have fun with MY car. And by the way I don t care if the economics say it is cheaper to not own a car and have it always drive itself. That s simply not the experience I want so the economics of that world are immaterial to me. I don t care if it s free. I still want to drive my own car. | I will never buy a vehicle that doesn t have a horse attached to it. I love the rush as I use the whip to direct my vehicle around. The one gripe I have with Henry s implied vision is that shortly no one will want to care for a living thing just because it is a mode of transport. I don t care if it is cheaper and means cleaning less horse feces that s simply not the experience I want. I mean I hear you and you are definitely not alone. However the reign of the ICE vehicle with driver is slowly (but surely) sliding towards its end. It wasn t that long ago that there were *no* cars so it is a little extreme to imply that driving a car yourself is some sort of existential requirement. The world will change no matter how loudly the present yells at the future to get off of its lawn. Beyond that the parts of driving a car that thrill you (likely control speed power etc.) may actually be better explored in another avenue -- divorced from your need for transportation. Maybe that will be driving race cars or maybe a sport. I can confidently say that as much as I enjoy driving I will be quite happy relaxing as an eternal passenger and finding other more productive outlets for my driving-related desires without having to feed them every time I realize we are out of milk at 2:00 in the morning. | There will always be hobbyists. | 121 | 12 | 1,569 |
6yro1b | 83 | Idea for Superchargers I think this idea will give owners more intelligence and flexibility when deciding where and when to Supercharge. Currently you can check how many free stalls there are at any Supercharging station. But when that station is fully occupied you might still decide to go there under the assumption that there s a good chance that you ll be next in line. In some cases this will work out fine but in others you re burnt waiting hours for a charge because there are other owners in queue. Now let s say that the other supercharger station that you decided not to go to was full as well but the queue was nonexistent so you could have been fully charged and back on the road already. So what I m proposing is that in addition to showing how many stalls are currently being used cars awaiting a stall should be geofenced into a Currently waiting to charge count for that station. And then beyond that you should know if there are owners en-route to that charging station as well or look like they re on route (algorithms can guess this by state of charge charging habits and other factors). Or Nah? | Great idea! Expect to see Elon get this feature out before auto wipers. | Super smart idea. | 42 | 2 | 1,570 |
6yro1b | 83 | Idea for Superchargers I think this idea will give owners more intelligence and flexibility when deciding where and when to Supercharge. Currently you can check how many free stalls there are at any Supercharging station. But when that station is fully occupied you might still decide to go there under the assumption that there s a good chance that you ll be next in line. In some cases this will work out fine but in others you re burnt waiting hours for a charge because there are other owners in queue. Now let s say that the other supercharger station that you decided not to go to was full as well but the queue was nonexistent so you could have been fully charged and back on the road already. So what I m proposing is that in addition to showing how many stalls are currently being used cars awaiting a stall should be geofenced into a Currently waiting to charge count for that station. And then beyond that you should know if there are owners en-route to that charging station as well or look like they re on route (algorithms can guess this by state of charge charging habits and other factors). Or Nah? | Navigation should use Supercharger availability along with the number of geofenced cars that need a charge and in-route cars to determine which Superchargers to stop at when doing route planning. | Super smart idea. | 29 | 2 | 1,571 |
6yuoue | 87 | Evacuating S FL and headed to NJ Hello All I m looking for some advice. I never left the state before due to a hurricane but Irma s eye is headed right over my house. I m pretty much as far west as you can go from the Atlantic and right next to the SawGrass so we ve never left before. Wilma was scary but the house stood and some shingles need to be replaced. So I m basically shutting power to most of my house like the Water heater and other non essentials. I m electing to leave the power connected for the AC and Internet modem. With this I can check to see if my Nests are still connected with power and Internet from the road. I have 10 SuperCharging stop between West Palm and New Jersey where my parents live. The first two stops shows 4 of 6 and 6 of 8 stalls available but all the others don t show anything. Will this update as I drive closer? Has anyone just completed this drive yet? I m hoping that the SC stops aren t as jammed up as the gas stations and I can get my charge and go with out issue. I m also assuming as I get further North the traffic and lines will disappear. Is there anything different I should do in my Tesla to extend my range if I get stuck in traffic? This would be my first road trip in a Tesla in the 1 year I ve owned one. Any thoughts advice suggestions are appreciated. Update #1 We left at 11pm and made it to sport St Lucie SC just before 12:30am with 44% I did 75 the entire way. Zero traffic however everyone is saying from here north it s all backed up. I m going to charge up to 100% just in case. Update #2 and last. 9 10 10:26pm After driving all the way up to N Carolina we saw the storm took a more westward path where the eye was no longer passing over our home. At this point we had been on the road for 19 hours and exhausted. We caught cat naps at SC stations and let the battery get up to at least 90 or close to 100 depending. The choice was either drive another 12 hours and make it to my Mothers house in NJ knowing we would have to do this long drive again in another day or two or just suck it up and drive home. We drove home. We got back about noon to some wind gusts. At lunch and passed out sleeping for 4 hours. Storm is over and the Tesla performed like a champ. I d write about my experience in another post when I m not exhausted and we have the house more cleaned up. Thank you everyone for all your advice and even volunteering me their home to charge and even a Chademo adapter. Its great knowing there is such a helpful community I can reach out to for advice since none of friends have an EV and know some of the logistic thoughts running through my mind. | You can call the tesla owners hotline for roadside assistance and they can tell you status of all superchargers on your route. I m sure you ll be fine but they can give you peace of mind if needed about the route status. 877-798-3752 | There is a certain radius from your car which supercharger status is shown. As you get closer (something like 300-400 miles) you will see the status show up. For the most part traffic is your friend slower you drive the more range you will have up to a point. So using range mode and being gentle on the AC will either net you miles over the estimate or at least keep you on track. Edit: Also should note driving smoothly in traffic to minimize friction brake usage will help conserve a good bit of energy. | 34 | 5 | 1,572 |
6z2fwd | 4,103 | Did Tesla just upgrade my 60D due to the hurricane? I m in South Florida and I own a MS60. I just checked my app and look what it says. I ve never been higher that 215 miles. Did Tesla do this for evacuations? Anyone else? Glitch? What gives? Amazing if they did do that. !flair question https: i.imgur.com Y5FtCwp.jpg Edit : Here s the letter I received https: i.imgur.com zFcFOIs.jpg Edit for the uninformed: Tesla offered a very limited 60 model. It was a known 75kw battery software limited to lower the price and bump sales. It was cheaper and I didn t need the extra miles so it sold me. It was an experiment by Tesla that worked but has been discontinued. They turned it on for all of us 60 owners in Florida to help out. I could have upgraded to a 75 anytime but chose not to. Very cool of them. | This is a wonderful move by Tesla! Someone on TMC claims they called Tesla and confirmed that 60s in evacuation zones were unlocked to 75s until the 16th. https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc threads model-s-60d-upgraded-for-free-to-75.97765 | What does it say at the bottom of the screen? 60 or 75. | 1,502 | 3 | 1,573 |
6z2fwd | 4,103 | Did Tesla just upgrade my 60D due to the hurricane? I m in South Florida and I own a MS60. I just checked my app and look what it says. I ve never been higher that 215 miles. Did Tesla do this for evacuations? Anyone else? Glitch? What gives? Amazing if they did do that. !flair question https: i.imgur.com Y5FtCwp.jpg Edit : Here s the letter I received https: i.imgur.com zFcFOIs.jpg Edit for the uninformed: Tesla offered a very limited 60 model. It was a known 75kw battery software limited to lower the price and bump sales. It was cheaper and I didn t need the extra miles so it sold me. It was an experiment by Tesla that worked but has been discontinued. They turned it on for all of us 60 owners in Florida to help out. I could have upgraded to a 75 anytime but chose not to. Very cool of them. | This is a wonderful move by Tesla! Someone on TMC claims they called Tesla and confirmed that 60s in evacuation zones were unlocked to 75s until the 16th. https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc threads model-s-60d-upgraded-for-free-to-75.97765 | I hope they did even if just for a few weeks. | 1,502 | 3 | 1,574 |
6z2fwd | 4,103 | Did Tesla just upgrade my 60D due to the hurricane? I m in South Florida and I own a MS60. I just checked my app and look what it says. I ve never been higher that 215 miles. Did Tesla do this for evacuations? Anyone else? Glitch? What gives? Amazing if they did do that. !flair question https: i.imgur.com Y5FtCwp.jpg Edit : Here s the letter I received https: i.imgur.com zFcFOIs.jpg Edit for the uninformed: Tesla offered a very limited 60 model. It was a known 75kw battery software limited to lower the price and bump sales. It was cheaper and I didn t need the extra miles so it sold me. It was an experiment by Tesla that worked but has been discontinued. They turned it on for all of us 60 owners in Florida to help out. I could have upgraded to a 75 anytime but chose not to. Very cool of them. | This is a wonderful move by Tesla! Someone on TMC claims they called Tesla and confirmed that 60s in evacuation zones were unlocked to 75s until the 16th. https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc threads model-s-60d-upgraded-for-free-to-75.97765 | ###& #009 ######& #009 ####& #009 Acronyms initialisms abbreviations contractions and other phrases which expand to something larger that I ve seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[70D]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmso53e Last usage )|70kWh battery dual motors| |[75D]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmt050x Last usage )|75kWh battery dual motors| |[AC]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmshkk8 Last usage )|Air Conditioning| | |Alternating Current| |[BEV]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dms4dx0 Last usage )|Battery Electric Vehicle| |[CPO]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsi0am Last usage )|Certified Pre-Owned| |[ECU]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmvnv8i Last usage )|[Engine Electronic Control Unit](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Engine_control_unit)| |[EPA]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmu26xo Last usage )|(US) Environmental Protection Agency| |[FW]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsf7n3 Last usage )|Firmware| |[FWD]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsf7n1 Last usage )|Front Wheel Drive| | |Falcon Wing Doors| |[HP]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsw54f Last usage )|Horsepower unit of power 0.746kW| |[ICE]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsk80o Last usage )|Internal Combustion Engine or vehicle powered by same| |[LR]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dms22ez Last usage )|Long Range (in regard to Model 3)| |[Li-ion]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmst5mm Last usage )|[Lithium-ion battery](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Lithium-ion_battery) first released 1991| |[M3]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmthsjd Last usage )|BMW performance sedan ^([Tesla M3 will never be a thing])| |[MS]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmthsjd Last usage )|~~Microso-~~ Tesla Model S| |[OTA]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsboaa Last usage )|Over-The-Air software delivery| |[S60]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsyox6 Last usage )|Model S 60kWh battery| |[S70]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dms4nlt Last usage )|Model S 70kWh battery| |[S75]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsxhlf Last usage )|Model S 75kWh battery| |[SC]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsxoyb Last usage )|Supercharger (Tesla-proprietary fast-charge network)| | |Service Center| | |Solar City Tesla subsidiary| |[SW]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmt4yz3 Last usage )|Software| |[TMC]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dms2epc Last usage )|[Tesla Motors Club forum](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc forums )| |[kW]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsf1gn Last usage )|Kilowatt unit of power| |[kWh]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmtemo6 Last usage )|Kilowatt-hours electrical energy unit (3.6MJ)| |[mpg]( r TeslaMotors comments 6z2fwd dmsjjds Last usage )|Miles Per Gallon (Imperial mpg figures are 1.201 times higher than US)| ---------------- ^(25 acronyms in this thread )[^the ^most ^compressed ^thread ^commented ^on ^today]( r TeslaMotors comments 726dds)^( has 15 acronyms.) ^([Thread #2444 for this sub first seen 9th Sep 2017 16:52]) [^\\[FAQ\\]](http: decronym.xyz ) [^\\[Contact\\]](https: reddit.com message compose?to=OrangeredStilton& subject=Hey +your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^\\[Source ^code\\]](https: gist.github.com Two9A 1d976f9b7441694162c8) | 1,502 | 3 | 1,575 |
6z6szd | 411 | The new Model 3 motor. Its history and what it is likely to be. Long + References. I was curious about the motor engineering and maybe you are too. Here s my rambling understanding (I like numbers). Please correct any mistakes I ve made. So far we know the Model 3 motor uses Permanent Magnets (PM) is **193kw** and can achieve 225 kph with a **1:8 gear ratio.** The max torque is estimated at **430 N·m** by MotorTrend. This tells us a few things. It has torque at very high rpm (around 15k+rpm?). A pure AC **PM motor can have greater efficiency** than an AC induction motor (IM) as the **IM has inherent losses in the rotor** (high currents are generated in the rotor copper). A downside however is that for PM motors the **magnetic losses reduce torque to zero at higher rpm.** Here s a random image I found showing this: [pic 1](https: motoredbikes.com attachments comparison-003-jpg.21038 ) and [pic 2](https: www.researchgate.net profile Jun_Kyu_Park2 publication 261088721 figure fig2 AS:427249246707714@1478875566699 Fig-19-NT-curve-oj-IPM-motor.jpg) There is an equation on page 13 of [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) This makes high rpm PM motors kind of impossible. Tesla prefer higher rpm motors as it allows smaller lighter cheaper motors when used with low gearing. At low rpm the applied torque is 8x (with the 1:8 gearing of the Model 3) and at high rpm the power output is **= torque x rpm 9.5488** and 15000 x any torque is pretty good power. For example to get 150kw at 15k rpm requires only 95 N·m of torque (the max is estimated at 430 N·m). **This allows a smaller and hence cheaper motor.** **Size cost is inversely proportional to max rpm:** [pic 3](https: image.slidesharecdn.com 01e-motorjlrpp-151008075157-lva1-app6891 95 traction-application-insight-by-jaguar-land-rover-22-638.jpg?cb=1444290770) ##So how to keep torque at higher rpm? A famous example is by Toyota for the Prius who made a **hybrid Synchronous Reluctance (SR) and PM motor.** SR can maintain torque at very high rpm. First proposed in 1923: [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) (see pages 12 & 13.) This image shows a SR motor on the left and a PM SR hybrid motor on the right: [pic 4](http: ars.els-cdn.com content image 1-s2.0-S1364032115006802-gr7.jpg) About SR: [wiki](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Reluctance_motor) The SR motor has a rotor made of soft magnetic plates like a transformer. **It s cheap** usually made of silicon steel. *The Hybrid PMSRM is basically a SRM with PMs added.* Torque and efficiency for PM and SR: [pic 5](https: image.slidesharecdn.com 01e-motorjlrpp-151008075157-lva1-app6891 95 traction-application-insight-by-jaguar-land-rover-10-638.jpg?cb=1444290770) ##What is Synchronous Reluctance? The stator is the same as for a PM or Induction motor. To encourage the stator to rotate with the field a very different thing happens. The magnetic field likes to travel through the Iron (Silicon steel pates) from N to S (or vice versa) and this creates a torque on the rotor. About SR: [wiki](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Reluctance_motor). This sort of motor is used in some washing machines because it s cheap. [Animated vid explanation](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=qDon7Nrj1Tk) ##Is it a Tesla motor? Nikola s famous 1888 AC induction motor patent also described a switched Reluctance motor: [patent](https: www.google.com patents US382279) So **you could argue that the PMSRM has Nicola Tesla DNA.** ##Why did Tesla motors initially choose the induction motor? Their initial plan was to do as little development as possible and use motors and inverters made by AC Propulsion who had a motor factory in China. Also at the time the material costs for PMs were high: [pic 6](https: 3.bp.blogspot.com -nhMDg0mL4E0 WC5mFy6zJcI AAAAAAAANR0 ppgII54JV7ciCDiZqpWBn0XP3Q7W5YfvACLcB s1600 CostChart.JPG) Also see page 13 & 15 of [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ##What PMSR motor is most likely similar to what Tesla have made? The Formula E motor made by McLaren: [pic 7](http: www.mclaren.com appliedtechnologies media images products section e-motor_powercurve.jpg) This is the commercial specs. For racing it does 20k rpm or so with 200kw max 230Nm 170kw race-mode. [specs](http: www.mclaren.com appliedtechnologies products item e-motor-120kw-130nm ) 26kg 120kw giving a power to weight ratio of **4.6 kw kg** Besides that most EV motors are PMSRMs. ##Problems with PM motors## The rare earth magnets expensive and soft and can be damaged by motor forces. High temperatures can demagnetize them. Neodymium magnets of the type N lose part of their magnetization permanently at a temperature of 80 °C other types can handle a higher temperature: [list](https: www.supermagnete.de eng faq What-temperatures-can-magnets-sustain). . ##Problems with SR motors## They are more efficient at low torque. They suffer from Torque ripple which can be addressed with clever inverter waveforms and by making a hybrid PMSRM where the low rpm torque is mostly PM. ##Problems with Induction motors## Lower efficiency at low rpm messed up Power Factor difficulty in cooling the rotor. ------ ##Nissan For the Leaf : 80 kW (110 hp) and 280 N.m (210 ft. lb) *synchronous electric motor* This gives a power weight of **1.38 kw kg 10 390 rpm max** A peak eff of ~ 94% (page 20 [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ) The 2018 Leaf motor is 110kw. ------ ##The Toyota PMSRM motor. Rotor pic 2006 Prius: [pic 8](http: www.searchautoparts.com sites www.searchautoparts.com files images ma0313_electrical9.JPG) Motor efficiency: [pic 9](http: www.nissan-global.com JP TECHNOLOGY FILES 2013 07 f51f673fe699a7.gif) A nice paper by a Toyota employee on the motor design engineering for the Rav 4 PMSRM: [Toyota pdf](https: www.jstage.jst.go.jp article ieejias 126 4 126_4_473 _pdf) It shows that max rpm of the 1996 motor was **6k rpm and a P W of ~ 0.6 kw kg**. ~6.8k rpm for 2003 and ~ 1.3kw kg. **12.4k rpm for the Rav 4 with 4 kw kg**. Also the reluctance torque percentage increased from 54% in the 2010 Prius to 63% in the Rav 4. ------ ##The BMW i3 Here is a pic of the concept i3 motor: [pic 10](http: www.automania.it motori Frankfurt-Motor-Show2013 486 BMW-i3-telaio-auto-elettrica.jpg) It s huge heavy and in the front. Thanks to the $2bn budget they managed to improve the motor. The final rear engine version called * Reduced Rare Earth *: [web article](http: www.electric-vehiclenews.com 2013 07 bmw-reveal-in-depth-details-of-i3-ev.html) > 125 kW 170 hp and peak torque of 250 Newton meters (184 lb-ft) which is on tap from the word go. The motor weighs just 50 kilograms and boasts power density and responsiveness unprecedented in the world of electric mobility. **< = bollocks** They call their PMSRM a * hybrid synchronous electric motor .* **2.5 kw kg 11 400 rpm max** [Efficiency pic](https: www.infolytica.com images applications ex0214 Efficiency%20Maps%20-%20Simulated.png) [specs](http: www.bmwblog.com 2013 07 10 bmw-i3-official-specs ) > A specific arrangement and dimensions for the components used to generate drive produces a self-magnetizing effect only otherwise induced by reluctance motors. This additional excitation causes the electromechanical field formed by the current supply to remain stable even at high revs. [pic 11](http: wardsauto.com site-files wardsauto.com files imagecache large_img uploads 2015 03 2015-10be-bmw-i3.jpg) [web article 2](http: wardsauto.com technology bmw-s-clean-sheet-ev?page=2) > Key to all this is a new hybrid synchronous motor the first electric motor completely designed and built by the BMW Group that combines “two different principles of driving the machine…to achieve the sum of the two. > “One is the standard PSM (Permanent-Magnet Synchronous Motor) effect with e-fields in the stator that go around with the current and the rotor simply follows that field. The second is a magnetostatic reluctant force.” > The biggest challenge was integrating these two effects into one motor design to optimize both performance and efficiency Abendroth says. > Another was “intelligently” mounting the inverter directly onto the motor without AC lines to prevent electromagnetic compatibility issues reduce weight and avoid large complex connectors. Still another was making the motor (especially its rotor) as light as possible yet as strong as necessary to withstand all the forces within the machine. > “It took us a long time to figure out what was really necessary and what was not.” ------ ##AC Propulson Efficiency of AC Propulsion 200 hp (150 kw) 12 000 rpm vehicle induction motor with mated 150 kw 600V IGBT inverter (model AC-150): [pic 12](http: www.twinkletoesengineering.info hybrid_induction_motor3.jpg) From [eng blog](http: www.twinkletoesengineering.info hybrid_car.htm) Also see the high speed induction motor compared on: [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ------ ##How PMSRM can be improved: [pic 13](http: marketplace.yet2.com publish needofweeks now0013725 20160529_anone01.png) | Tl dr: - It s all about motor efficiency. - There are 3 different basic motor types: Induction (used by Model S X) permanent magnet reluctance. - You can combine permanent magnet + reluctance in one motor which is what Toyota Nissan BMW does and Tesla probably maybe will do for Model 3. - Permanent magnet + reluctance is definitely more efficient than Induction. Probably lower maximum power though. So: More range less acceleration (still very good). - All motors already have a VERY GOOD efficiency (> 90% peak). When comparing the different approaches we re talking about squeezing out the last bit. - To squeeze out the last bit engineers have to know i) fleet data showing how fast people actually drive accelerate brake in real life ii) motor data showing the motor efficiency of every possible motor at all RPMs and torques. Then you just have to match i) and ii). To then choose a motor maybe you also want to consider production costs since permanent magnets aren t that cheap. However it s not that the production costs of the different motors are in complete different ballparks. - From a user s point of view there won t be much difference (except range and maybe maximum acceleration). All motors make the same noise require the same maintenance (none) and will be good for far more than 1 000 000 kilometers. - You don t like the trade-off between maximum range and maximum acceleration ? Just wait for Tesla s new dual motor designs! I expect them to choose different motors for the front and the rear probably also geared differently which will give you the best of both worlds. | Why is it that in just a couple of months regular people will be buying this car and Tesla still has not released technical details on some basic aspects of the Model 3 yet like the motor? Are we really going to have to wait until someone is willing to tear down their brand new car? Sad | 85 | 3 | 1,576 |
6z6szd | 411 | The new Model 3 motor. Its history and what it is likely to be. Long + References. I was curious about the motor engineering and maybe you are too. Here s my rambling understanding (I like numbers). Please correct any mistakes I ve made. So far we know the Model 3 motor uses Permanent Magnets (PM) is **193kw** and can achieve 225 kph with a **1:8 gear ratio.** The max torque is estimated at **430 N·m** by MotorTrend. This tells us a few things. It has torque at very high rpm (around 15k+rpm?). A pure AC **PM motor can have greater efficiency** than an AC induction motor (IM) as the **IM has inherent losses in the rotor** (high currents are generated in the rotor copper). A downside however is that for PM motors the **magnetic losses reduce torque to zero at higher rpm.** Here s a random image I found showing this: [pic 1](https: motoredbikes.com attachments comparison-003-jpg.21038 ) and [pic 2](https: www.researchgate.net profile Jun_Kyu_Park2 publication 261088721 figure fig2 AS:427249246707714@1478875566699 Fig-19-NT-curve-oj-IPM-motor.jpg) There is an equation on page 13 of [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) This makes high rpm PM motors kind of impossible. Tesla prefer higher rpm motors as it allows smaller lighter cheaper motors when used with low gearing. At low rpm the applied torque is 8x (with the 1:8 gearing of the Model 3) and at high rpm the power output is **= torque x rpm 9.5488** and 15000 x any torque is pretty good power. For example to get 150kw at 15k rpm requires only 95 N·m of torque (the max is estimated at 430 N·m). **This allows a smaller and hence cheaper motor.** **Size cost is inversely proportional to max rpm:** [pic 3](https: image.slidesharecdn.com 01e-motorjlrpp-151008075157-lva1-app6891 95 traction-application-insight-by-jaguar-land-rover-22-638.jpg?cb=1444290770) ##So how to keep torque at higher rpm? A famous example is by Toyota for the Prius who made a **hybrid Synchronous Reluctance (SR) and PM motor.** SR can maintain torque at very high rpm. First proposed in 1923: [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) (see pages 12 & 13.) This image shows a SR motor on the left and a PM SR hybrid motor on the right: [pic 4](http: ars.els-cdn.com content image 1-s2.0-S1364032115006802-gr7.jpg) About SR: [wiki](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Reluctance_motor) The SR motor has a rotor made of soft magnetic plates like a transformer. **It s cheap** usually made of silicon steel. *The Hybrid PMSRM is basically a SRM with PMs added.* Torque and efficiency for PM and SR: [pic 5](https: image.slidesharecdn.com 01e-motorjlrpp-151008075157-lva1-app6891 95 traction-application-insight-by-jaguar-land-rover-10-638.jpg?cb=1444290770) ##What is Synchronous Reluctance? The stator is the same as for a PM or Induction motor. To encourage the stator to rotate with the field a very different thing happens. The magnetic field likes to travel through the Iron (Silicon steel pates) from N to S (or vice versa) and this creates a torque on the rotor. About SR: [wiki](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Reluctance_motor). This sort of motor is used in some washing machines because it s cheap. [Animated vid explanation](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=qDon7Nrj1Tk) ##Is it a Tesla motor? Nikola s famous 1888 AC induction motor patent also described a switched Reluctance motor: [patent](https: www.google.com patents US382279) So **you could argue that the PMSRM has Nicola Tesla DNA.** ##Why did Tesla motors initially choose the induction motor? Their initial plan was to do as little development as possible and use motors and inverters made by AC Propulsion who had a motor factory in China. Also at the time the material costs for PMs were high: [pic 6](https: 3.bp.blogspot.com -nhMDg0mL4E0 WC5mFy6zJcI AAAAAAAANR0 ppgII54JV7ciCDiZqpWBn0XP3Q7W5YfvACLcB s1600 CostChart.JPG) Also see page 13 & 15 of [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ##What PMSR motor is most likely similar to what Tesla have made? The Formula E motor made by McLaren: [pic 7](http: www.mclaren.com appliedtechnologies media images products section e-motor_powercurve.jpg) This is the commercial specs. For racing it does 20k rpm or so with 200kw max 230Nm 170kw race-mode. [specs](http: www.mclaren.com appliedtechnologies products item e-motor-120kw-130nm ) 26kg 120kw giving a power to weight ratio of **4.6 kw kg** Besides that most EV motors are PMSRMs. ##Problems with PM motors## The rare earth magnets expensive and soft and can be damaged by motor forces. High temperatures can demagnetize them. Neodymium magnets of the type N lose part of their magnetization permanently at a temperature of 80 °C other types can handle a higher temperature: [list](https: www.supermagnete.de eng faq What-temperatures-can-magnets-sustain). . ##Problems with SR motors## They are more efficient at low torque. They suffer from Torque ripple which can be addressed with clever inverter waveforms and by making a hybrid PMSRM where the low rpm torque is mostly PM. ##Problems with Induction motors## Lower efficiency at low rpm messed up Power Factor difficulty in cooling the rotor. ------ ##Nissan For the Leaf : 80 kW (110 hp) and 280 N.m (210 ft. lb) *synchronous electric motor* This gives a power weight of **1.38 kw kg 10 390 rpm max** A peak eff of ~ 94% (page 20 [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ) The 2018 Leaf motor is 110kw. ------ ##The Toyota PMSRM motor. Rotor pic 2006 Prius: [pic 8](http: www.searchautoparts.com sites www.searchautoparts.com files images ma0313_electrical9.JPG) Motor efficiency: [pic 9](http: www.nissan-global.com JP TECHNOLOGY FILES 2013 07 f51f673fe699a7.gif) A nice paper by a Toyota employee on the motor design engineering for the Rav 4 PMSRM: [Toyota pdf](https: www.jstage.jst.go.jp article ieejias 126 4 126_4_473 _pdf) It shows that max rpm of the 1996 motor was **6k rpm and a P W of ~ 0.6 kw kg**. ~6.8k rpm for 2003 and ~ 1.3kw kg. **12.4k rpm for the Rav 4 with 4 kw kg**. Also the reluctance torque percentage increased from 54% in the 2010 Prius to 63% in the Rav 4. ------ ##The BMW i3 Here is a pic of the concept i3 motor: [pic 10](http: www.automania.it motori Frankfurt-Motor-Show2013 486 BMW-i3-telaio-auto-elettrica.jpg) It s huge heavy and in the front. Thanks to the $2bn budget they managed to improve the motor. The final rear engine version called * Reduced Rare Earth *: [web article](http: www.electric-vehiclenews.com 2013 07 bmw-reveal-in-depth-details-of-i3-ev.html) > 125 kW 170 hp and peak torque of 250 Newton meters (184 lb-ft) which is on tap from the word go. The motor weighs just 50 kilograms and boasts power density and responsiveness unprecedented in the world of electric mobility. **< = bollocks** They call their PMSRM a * hybrid synchronous electric motor .* **2.5 kw kg 11 400 rpm max** [Efficiency pic](https: www.infolytica.com images applications ex0214 Efficiency%20Maps%20-%20Simulated.png) [specs](http: www.bmwblog.com 2013 07 10 bmw-i3-official-specs ) > A specific arrangement and dimensions for the components used to generate drive produces a self-magnetizing effect only otherwise induced by reluctance motors. This additional excitation causes the electromechanical field formed by the current supply to remain stable even at high revs. [pic 11](http: wardsauto.com site-files wardsauto.com files imagecache large_img uploads 2015 03 2015-10be-bmw-i3.jpg) [web article 2](http: wardsauto.com technology bmw-s-clean-sheet-ev?page=2) > Key to all this is a new hybrid synchronous motor the first electric motor completely designed and built by the BMW Group that combines “two different principles of driving the machine…to achieve the sum of the two. > “One is the standard PSM (Permanent-Magnet Synchronous Motor) effect with e-fields in the stator that go around with the current and the rotor simply follows that field. The second is a magnetostatic reluctant force.” > The biggest challenge was integrating these two effects into one motor design to optimize both performance and efficiency Abendroth says. > Another was “intelligently” mounting the inverter directly onto the motor without AC lines to prevent electromagnetic compatibility issues reduce weight and avoid large complex connectors. Still another was making the motor (especially its rotor) as light as possible yet as strong as necessary to withstand all the forces within the machine. > “It took us a long time to figure out what was really necessary and what was not.” ------ ##AC Propulson Efficiency of AC Propulsion 200 hp (150 kw) 12 000 rpm vehicle induction motor with mated 150 kw 600V IGBT inverter (model AC-150): [pic 12](http: www.twinkletoesengineering.info hybrid_induction_motor3.jpg) From [eng blog](http: www.twinkletoesengineering.info hybrid_car.htm) Also see the high speed induction motor compared on: [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ------ ##How PMSRM can be improved: [pic 13](http: marketplace.yet2.com publish needofweeks now0013725 20160529_anone01.png) | Tl dr: - It s all about motor efficiency. - There are 3 different basic motor types: Induction (used by Model S X) permanent magnet reluctance. - You can combine permanent magnet + reluctance in one motor which is what Toyota Nissan BMW does and Tesla probably maybe will do for Model 3. - Permanent magnet + reluctance is definitely more efficient than Induction. Probably lower maximum power though. So: More range less acceleration (still very good). - All motors already have a VERY GOOD efficiency (> 90% peak). When comparing the different approaches we re talking about squeezing out the last bit. - To squeeze out the last bit engineers have to know i) fleet data showing how fast people actually drive accelerate brake in real life ii) motor data showing the motor efficiency of every possible motor at all RPMs and torques. Then you just have to match i) and ii). To then choose a motor maybe you also want to consider production costs since permanent magnets aren t that cheap. However it s not that the production costs of the different motors are in complete different ballparks. - From a user s point of view there won t be much difference (except range and maybe maximum acceleration). All motors make the same noise require the same maintenance (none) and will be good for far more than 1 000 000 kilometers. - You don t like the trade-off between maximum range and maximum acceleration ? Just wait for Tesla s new dual motor designs! I expect them to choose different motors for the front and the rear probably also geared differently which will give you the best of both worlds. | Can you write a short andy easy to understand TL DR? | 85 | 9 | 1,577 |
6z6szd | 411 | The new Model 3 motor. Its history and what it is likely to be. Long + References. I was curious about the motor engineering and maybe you are too. Here s my rambling understanding (I like numbers). Please correct any mistakes I ve made. So far we know the Model 3 motor uses Permanent Magnets (PM) is **193kw** and can achieve 225 kph with a **1:8 gear ratio.** The max torque is estimated at **430 N·m** by MotorTrend. This tells us a few things. It has torque at very high rpm (around 15k+rpm?). A pure AC **PM motor can have greater efficiency** than an AC induction motor (IM) as the **IM has inherent losses in the rotor** (high currents are generated in the rotor copper). A downside however is that for PM motors the **magnetic losses reduce torque to zero at higher rpm.** Here s a random image I found showing this: [pic 1](https: motoredbikes.com attachments comparison-003-jpg.21038 ) and [pic 2](https: www.researchgate.net profile Jun_Kyu_Park2 publication 261088721 figure fig2 AS:427249246707714@1478875566699 Fig-19-NT-curve-oj-IPM-motor.jpg) There is an equation on page 13 of [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) This makes high rpm PM motors kind of impossible. Tesla prefer higher rpm motors as it allows smaller lighter cheaper motors when used with low gearing. At low rpm the applied torque is 8x (with the 1:8 gearing of the Model 3) and at high rpm the power output is **= torque x rpm 9.5488** and 15000 x any torque is pretty good power. For example to get 150kw at 15k rpm requires only 95 N·m of torque (the max is estimated at 430 N·m). **This allows a smaller and hence cheaper motor.** **Size cost is inversely proportional to max rpm:** [pic 3](https: image.slidesharecdn.com 01e-motorjlrpp-151008075157-lva1-app6891 95 traction-application-insight-by-jaguar-land-rover-22-638.jpg?cb=1444290770) ##So how to keep torque at higher rpm? A famous example is by Toyota for the Prius who made a **hybrid Synchronous Reluctance (SR) and PM motor.** SR can maintain torque at very high rpm. First proposed in 1923: [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) (see pages 12 & 13.) This image shows a SR motor on the left and a PM SR hybrid motor on the right: [pic 4](http: ars.els-cdn.com content image 1-s2.0-S1364032115006802-gr7.jpg) About SR: [wiki](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Reluctance_motor) The SR motor has a rotor made of soft magnetic plates like a transformer. **It s cheap** usually made of silicon steel. *The Hybrid PMSRM is basically a SRM with PMs added.* Torque and efficiency for PM and SR: [pic 5](https: image.slidesharecdn.com 01e-motorjlrpp-151008075157-lva1-app6891 95 traction-application-insight-by-jaguar-land-rover-10-638.jpg?cb=1444290770) ##What is Synchronous Reluctance? The stator is the same as for a PM or Induction motor. To encourage the stator to rotate with the field a very different thing happens. The magnetic field likes to travel through the Iron (Silicon steel pates) from N to S (or vice versa) and this creates a torque on the rotor. About SR: [wiki](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Reluctance_motor). This sort of motor is used in some washing machines because it s cheap. [Animated vid explanation](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=qDon7Nrj1Tk) ##Is it a Tesla motor? Nikola s famous 1888 AC induction motor patent also described a switched Reluctance motor: [patent](https: www.google.com patents US382279) So **you could argue that the PMSRM has Nicola Tesla DNA.** ##Why did Tesla motors initially choose the induction motor? Their initial plan was to do as little development as possible and use motors and inverters made by AC Propulsion who had a motor factory in China. Also at the time the material costs for PMs were high: [pic 6](https: 3.bp.blogspot.com -nhMDg0mL4E0 WC5mFy6zJcI AAAAAAAANR0 ppgII54JV7ciCDiZqpWBn0XP3Q7W5YfvACLcB s1600 CostChart.JPG) Also see page 13 & 15 of [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ##What PMSR motor is most likely similar to what Tesla have made? The Formula E motor made by McLaren: [pic 7](http: www.mclaren.com appliedtechnologies media images products section e-motor_powercurve.jpg) This is the commercial specs. For racing it does 20k rpm or so with 200kw max 230Nm 170kw race-mode. [specs](http: www.mclaren.com appliedtechnologies products item e-motor-120kw-130nm ) 26kg 120kw giving a power to weight ratio of **4.6 kw kg** Besides that most EV motors are PMSRMs. ##Problems with PM motors## The rare earth magnets expensive and soft and can be damaged by motor forces. High temperatures can demagnetize them. Neodymium magnets of the type N lose part of their magnetization permanently at a temperature of 80 °C other types can handle a higher temperature: [list](https: www.supermagnete.de eng faq What-temperatures-can-magnets-sustain). . ##Problems with SR motors## They are more efficient at low torque. They suffer from Torque ripple which can be addressed with clever inverter waveforms and by making a hybrid PMSRM where the low rpm torque is mostly PM. ##Problems with Induction motors## Lower efficiency at low rpm messed up Power Factor difficulty in cooling the rotor. ------ ##Nissan For the Leaf : 80 kW (110 hp) and 280 N.m (210 ft. lb) *synchronous electric motor* This gives a power weight of **1.38 kw kg 10 390 rpm max** A peak eff of ~ 94% (page 20 [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ) The 2018 Leaf motor is 110kw. ------ ##The Toyota PMSRM motor. Rotor pic 2006 Prius: [pic 8](http: www.searchautoparts.com sites www.searchautoparts.com files images ma0313_electrical9.JPG) Motor efficiency: [pic 9](http: www.nissan-global.com JP TECHNOLOGY FILES 2013 07 f51f673fe699a7.gif) A nice paper by a Toyota employee on the motor design engineering for the Rav 4 PMSRM: [Toyota pdf](https: www.jstage.jst.go.jp article ieejias 126 4 126_4_473 _pdf) It shows that max rpm of the 1996 motor was **6k rpm and a P W of ~ 0.6 kw kg**. ~6.8k rpm for 2003 and ~ 1.3kw kg. **12.4k rpm for the Rav 4 with 4 kw kg**. Also the reluctance torque percentage increased from 54% in the 2010 Prius to 63% in the Rav 4. ------ ##The BMW i3 Here is a pic of the concept i3 motor: [pic 10](http: www.automania.it motori Frankfurt-Motor-Show2013 486 BMW-i3-telaio-auto-elettrica.jpg) It s huge heavy and in the front. Thanks to the $2bn budget they managed to improve the motor. The final rear engine version called * Reduced Rare Earth *: [web article](http: www.electric-vehiclenews.com 2013 07 bmw-reveal-in-depth-details-of-i3-ev.html) > 125 kW 170 hp and peak torque of 250 Newton meters (184 lb-ft) which is on tap from the word go. The motor weighs just 50 kilograms and boasts power density and responsiveness unprecedented in the world of electric mobility. **< = bollocks** They call their PMSRM a * hybrid synchronous electric motor .* **2.5 kw kg 11 400 rpm max** [Efficiency pic](https: www.infolytica.com images applications ex0214 Efficiency%20Maps%20-%20Simulated.png) [specs](http: www.bmwblog.com 2013 07 10 bmw-i3-official-specs ) > A specific arrangement and dimensions for the components used to generate drive produces a self-magnetizing effect only otherwise induced by reluctance motors. This additional excitation causes the electromechanical field formed by the current supply to remain stable even at high revs. [pic 11](http: wardsauto.com site-files wardsauto.com files imagecache large_img uploads 2015 03 2015-10be-bmw-i3.jpg) [web article 2](http: wardsauto.com technology bmw-s-clean-sheet-ev?page=2) > Key to all this is a new hybrid synchronous motor the first electric motor completely designed and built by the BMW Group that combines “two different principles of driving the machine…to achieve the sum of the two. > “One is the standard PSM (Permanent-Magnet Synchronous Motor) effect with e-fields in the stator that go around with the current and the rotor simply follows that field. The second is a magnetostatic reluctant force.” > The biggest challenge was integrating these two effects into one motor design to optimize both performance and efficiency Abendroth says. > Another was “intelligently” mounting the inverter directly onto the motor without AC lines to prevent electromagnetic compatibility issues reduce weight and avoid large complex connectors. Still another was making the motor (especially its rotor) as light as possible yet as strong as necessary to withstand all the forces within the machine. > “It took us a long time to figure out what was really necessary and what was not.” ------ ##AC Propulson Efficiency of AC Propulsion 200 hp (150 kw) 12 000 rpm vehicle induction motor with mated 150 kw 600V IGBT inverter (model AC-150): [pic 12](http: www.twinkletoesengineering.info hybrid_induction_motor3.jpg) From [eng blog](http: www.twinkletoesengineering.info hybrid_car.htm) Also see the high speed induction motor compared on: [gov pdf](https: energy.gov sites prod files 2014 03 f13 ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf) ------ ##How PMSRM can be improved: [pic 13](http: marketplace.yet2.com publish needofweeks now0013725 20160529_anone01.png) | Tl dr: - It s all about motor efficiency. - There are 3 different basic motor types: Induction (used by Model S X) permanent magnet reluctance. - You can combine permanent magnet + reluctance in one motor which is what Toyota Nissan BMW does and Tesla probably maybe will do for Model 3. - Permanent magnet + reluctance is definitely more efficient than Induction. Probably lower maximum power though. So: More range less acceleration (still very good). - All motors already have a VERY GOOD efficiency (> 90% peak). When comparing the different approaches we re talking about squeezing out the last bit. - To squeeze out the last bit engineers have to know i) fleet data showing how fast people actually drive accelerate brake in real life ii) motor data showing the motor efficiency of every possible motor at all RPMs and torques. Then you just have to match i) and ii). To then choose a motor maybe you also want to consider production costs since permanent magnets aren t that cheap. However it s not that the production costs of the different motors are in complete different ballparks. - From a user s point of view there won t be much difference (except range and maybe maximum acceleration). All motors make the same noise require the same maintenance (none) and will be good for far more than 1 000 000 kilometers. - You don t like the trade-off between maximum range and maximum acceleration ? Just wait for Tesla s new dual motor designs! I expect them to choose different motors for the front and the rear probably also geared differently which will give you the best of both worlds. | Very interesting even if lots are over my head. I d like a ELI17 or explain it to my dad break down. Especially the Model S pros and cons vs the Model 3 pros and cons | 85 | 13 | 1,578 |
6z94tz | 49 | Are there Model 3 secrets we don t yet know? This tweet from an early owner claims that he can t talk about his model 3 because of a nondisclosure agreement. Are there major features or aspects of the Model 3 we still don t know? What would the point of an NDA be? https: twitter.com Jason status 906542220869640192 | Yeah. Basically everything really. We don t know how the trunk opens from outside. We don t know how the frunk opens. We don t know how close the phone needs to be to do those things. We don t know what all the app can control period. AFAIK we don t have a definitive answer on an underneath port for charging but it isn t looking good. (We know there s only one input to the battery but that doesn t mean two ports can t feed one input.) We don t know what the real ranges of the cars are and what is just the aero wheels. We don t know what the camera in the car is for. We ve never seen the scroll wheels on the steering wheel do anything but move the mirrors and wheel itself. We don t know what voice commands there are. You name it it s probably just a best guess. Even the new mobile connector there s more speculation than concrete info. | There s all kinds of things we don t know yet. Like what happens when the button to get out of the car doesn t work and you need to use the emergency release feature. Really the cars being delivered now might still be subject to changes by the time they start fulfilling general orders and I think that s the main reason why there s so little known about it. | 87 | 12 | 1,579 |
6z94tz | 49 | Are there Model 3 secrets we don t yet know? This tweet from an early owner claims that he can t talk about his model 3 because of a nondisclosure agreement. Are there major features or aspects of the Model 3 we still don t know? What would the point of an NDA be? https: twitter.com Jason status 906542220869640192 | Yes. Whether or not the production ramp is on track. | That you can shift regen using the scroll wheel. That the drive stalk does more than what we know. | 53 | 2 | 1,580 |
6z94tz | 49 | Are there Model 3 secrets we don t yet know? This tweet from an early owner claims that he can t talk about his model 3 because of a nondisclosure agreement. Are there major features or aspects of the Model 3 we still don t know? What would the point of an NDA be? https: twitter.com Jason status 906542220869640192 | Yes. Whether or not the production ramp is on track. | There s all kinds of things we don t know yet. Like what happens when the button to get out of the car doesn t work and you need to use the emergency release feature. Really the cars being delivered now might still be subject to changes by the time they start fulfilling general orders and I think that s the main reason why there s so little known about it. | 53 | 12 | 1,581 |
6z99zo | 52 | Let s talk about Autopilot parity. As of today what can AP2 do that AP1 can t? For highway single-lane autosteer Tesla AP1 is about as solid as it gets. Regarding TACC during this year Tesla seems to have found the recipe to make speed adjustments very smooth. Obviously AP1 is not and never will be FSD but for its intended function it does it very well at this point and Tesla doesn t leave older cars behind. What are clear advantages of AP2 to-date? | Tesla marketing claims aside it s unrealistic to think that a car company starting from close to zero would exceed the results of a company that had for years been focused on the problem. They are doing pretty well given the circumstances. | I have AP1 and had an AP2 loaner for a week. AP2 is definitely still behind AP1. Doesn t see a car merge into your lane until the very last second and still ping pongs between lanes. I think a few more months and updates AP2 will be equal to AP1. | 48 | 9 | 1,582 |
6z99zo | 52 | Let s talk about Autopilot parity. As of today what can AP2 do that AP1 can t? For highway single-lane autosteer Tesla AP1 is about as solid as it gets. Regarding TACC during this year Tesla seems to have found the recipe to make speed adjustments very smooth. Obviously AP1 is not and never will be FSD but for its intended function it does it very well at this point and Tesla doesn t leave older cars behind. What are clear advantages of AP2 to-date? | Tesla marketing claims aside it s unrealistic to think that a car company starting from close to zero would exceed the results of a company that had for years been focused on the problem. They are doing pretty well given the circumstances. | I m hoping someone will say zipper merge because AP2 has peripheral cameras but I haven t seen proof of zipper merge working yet in AP2. In theory it should be one of the first abilities over AP1. | 48 | 11 | 1,583 |
6zj41f | 26 | Help me respond to this ignorant comment in my community which was a response to a new Supercharger being built Will the taxpayers have to pay for this with subsidies they way they pay for half of every Tesla that rolls off the factory floor so some millionaire can feel less guilty? I m looking for a knock out punch reply with comparisons to larger oil subsidies and how Tesla repaid their loans with interest before any ICE manufacturers etc. I m just not as knowledgeable as many on r teslamotors! EDIT: I took a couple hours to pause and he got attacked by others with the facts. :-) | If you feel like arguing (I don t recommend it) I suggest a Socratic approach. Ask them what subsidies they get. Follow up asking for details. People are more likely to be convinced if they discover the truth on their own rather than being told. | The federal government literally subsidizes junk food lol. I don t feel like that s a legitimate way to measure good use of tax dollars(if they re even used to begin with) | 33 | 2 | 1,584 |
6zj41f | 26 | Help me respond to this ignorant comment in my community which was a response to a new Supercharger being built Will the taxpayers have to pay for this with subsidies they way they pay for half of every Tesla that rolls off the factory floor so some millionaire can feel less guilty? I m looking for a knock out punch reply with comparisons to larger oil subsidies and how Tesla repaid their loans with interest before any ICE manufacturers etc. I m just not as knowledgeable as many on r teslamotors! EDIT: I took a couple hours to pause and he got attacked by others with the facts. :-) | If you feel like arguing (I don t recommend it) I suggest a Socratic approach. Ask them what subsidies they get. Follow up asking for details. People are more likely to be convinced if they discover the truth on their own rather than being told. | Like others have said it isn t worth arguing people online and expecting to win. But when I meet somebody in person and they say something like this I try to correct them. I say the tax rebate is just like the mortgage interest deduction that millions of Americans use to reduce their tax burden. That tax cut drives up the price of housing by making larger housing loans. Of course this only helps middle and upper income people who can afford to get a loan for a house in the first place. | 33 | 6 | 1,585 |
6zj41f | 26 | Help me respond to this ignorant comment in my community which was a response to a new Supercharger being built Will the taxpayers have to pay for this with subsidies they way they pay for half of every Tesla that rolls off the factory floor so some millionaire can feel less guilty? I m looking for a knock out punch reply with comparisons to larger oil subsidies and how Tesla repaid their loans with interest before any ICE manufacturers etc. I m just not as knowledgeable as many on r teslamotors! EDIT: I took a couple hours to pause and he got attacked by others with the facts. :-) | If you feel like arguing (I don t recommend it) I suggest a Socratic approach. Ask them what subsidies they get. Follow up asking for details. People are more likely to be convinced if they discover the truth on their own rather than being told. | My response would be: What subsidies? Which government agency? A Trump agency? The tax credit? The same type of subsidies that banks get when homeowners get to write of their mortgage interest? That tax credit is about 10% of the cheapest Tesla and even less for the more expensive ones. Or is it the loan that they paid back early with penalty interest because they paid it back early while [GM cost the tax payers $10 billion?](https: www.washingtonpost.com business economy treasury-sells-last-stake-in-general-motors-losing-10-billion 2013 12 09 e01bbf2c-6118-11e3-8beb-3f9a9942850f_story.html) Or is it some other subsidy that I don t know about? If you want to be unfriended you could just reply with [this video](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=Lt0S0QNwxdo) | 33 | 7 | 1,586 |
6zmlte | 24 | Need some objective advice: BMW X5 3.0 vs. Model X 100D I m new to this subreddit and have found it very helpful over the last 6-8 weeks that I ve been researching this topic. I am on my second BMW X5 and the lease ends in the next few weeks. I ve always done build-to-order X5s so I m looking at an X5 or MX. I ve been trying to decide between getting the 2018 X5 3.0 (5 seater heavily loaded) or the Model X 100D (6 seater version with all options other than FSD). Either would be built to order (California or South Carolina!) and I need to place an order next week(ish). We are family of 4. I wanted to get feedback... OBJECTIVELY speaking am I missing any considerations? I ve listed down the major +ves for each of the cars as i see it. PS - This is based on my 4-5 day test drive of a borrowed MX 75D from a friend. The case for the X5 3.0 + Comparably loaded it costs about $20K less (after adjusting for the tax breaks) but before fuel savings + Heads up display ... believe it or not this is probably what I d miss #1 if I went MX + 360 view ... this is what I d miss #2. Super helpful for parking and tight spaces. + No issues with repairs. On the other hand I ve heard read stories about MX sitting at the workshop for months for body damage repairs + Regular type rear doors. The Falcon Wing Doors seem a bit of over engineered novelty that will causes mechanical issues and takes too long to open close + Solid navigation system with traffic aware rerouting. Don t need to fiddle with Waze Google Maps. + No vapor ware . What s promised is available when I buy the car. + No range anxiety on long road-trips adjust trip for supercharging + Comes with runflat tires built-in (no addl. expense to replace factory tires no need to wait by the side of the road on a flat or try and fix it by roadside!) + Good iPhone integration (much much better than Model X). CarPlay option in 2018 X5 as well. + Windscreen on the Model X is awesome however too bright in the August sun. The shade that comes with it is cumbersome and not practical to regularly install remove + Better rear windscreen visibility (also has a wiper... thought i did not drive the MX in rain) + Better insurance rates like for like (I checked with GEICO in NY) The case for the X 100D + Drives like a dream. Superb acceleration. Great handling. + Head-turner design. Amazing styling and the falcon wing doors open close catch attention. + Better crash test performance + AP2 2.5 is already significantly better and more functional then BMW s Driver Assistance Plus package. + Slightly more hush ride compared to the X5 (less NVH). Both on 20 wheels. + Compared to the X5 the MX third row seats are actually usable + Over the air updates... continuous improvements available over the lifetime of the car (though I also see that Tesla from time to time can disable features as well) + 17 screen ... bright crisp and easy to use interface (maybe indeed better than iDrive). Maps looks good. Controls are easy. + Digital dashboard better and crisper than the X5 (i haven t had a chance to see the digital dash on the 2018 X5) + Frunk storage (though overall rear storage seems comparable) + Summon mode and remote a c activation (the latter being very practical for the cold NY winters) + Seats are more comfortable than the X5 + The HD rear view camera itself is better than the rear view on the X5 (though it does not make up for the missing 360 view) + Don t have to deal haggle with a franchise dealership to purchase (though i will say that i found BMW s service in lower Westchester NY quite good) + Saves the planet (no gas!) Am I missing any facts? Edit: Added point about crash test performance. | > Need some objective advice You ve come to the wrong place partner. | Don t see any mention of maintenance savings. In 4 years I haven t had to do any maintenance on my Tesla. I hated having to do oil changes all that is gone. I also DM message you more information if you have any questions feel free to message me | 60 | 5 | 1,587 |
6zmlte | 24 | Need some objective advice: BMW X5 3.0 vs. Model X 100D I m new to this subreddit and have found it very helpful over the last 6-8 weeks that I ve been researching this topic. I am on my second BMW X5 and the lease ends in the next few weeks. I ve always done build-to-order X5s so I m looking at an X5 or MX. I ve been trying to decide between getting the 2018 X5 3.0 (5 seater heavily loaded) or the Model X 100D (6 seater version with all options other than FSD). Either would be built to order (California or South Carolina!) and I need to place an order next week(ish). We are family of 4. I wanted to get feedback... OBJECTIVELY speaking am I missing any considerations? I ve listed down the major +ves for each of the cars as i see it. PS - This is based on my 4-5 day test drive of a borrowed MX 75D from a friend. The case for the X5 3.0 + Comparably loaded it costs about $20K less (after adjusting for the tax breaks) but before fuel savings + Heads up display ... believe it or not this is probably what I d miss #1 if I went MX + 360 view ... this is what I d miss #2. Super helpful for parking and tight spaces. + No issues with repairs. On the other hand I ve heard read stories about MX sitting at the workshop for months for body damage repairs + Regular type rear doors. The Falcon Wing Doors seem a bit of over engineered novelty that will causes mechanical issues and takes too long to open close + Solid navigation system with traffic aware rerouting. Don t need to fiddle with Waze Google Maps. + No vapor ware . What s promised is available when I buy the car. + No range anxiety on long road-trips adjust trip for supercharging + Comes with runflat tires built-in (no addl. expense to replace factory tires no need to wait by the side of the road on a flat or try and fix it by roadside!) + Good iPhone integration (much much better than Model X). CarPlay option in 2018 X5 as well. + Windscreen on the Model X is awesome however too bright in the August sun. The shade that comes with it is cumbersome and not practical to regularly install remove + Better rear windscreen visibility (also has a wiper... thought i did not drive the MX in rain) + Better insurance rates like for like (I checked with GEICO in NY) The case for the X 100D + Drives like a dream. Superb acceleration. Great handling. + Head-turner design. Amazing styling and the falcon wing doors open close catch attention. + Better crash test performance + AP2 2.5 is already significantly better and more functional then BMW s Driver Assistance Plus package. + Slightly more hush ride compared to the X5 (less NVH). Both on 20 wheels. + Compared to the X5 the MX third row seats are actually usable + Over the air updates... continuous improvements available over the lifetime of the car (though I also see that Tesla from time to time can disable features as well) + 17 screen ... bright crisp and easy to use interface (maybe indeed better than iDrive). Maps looks good. Controls are easy. + Digital dashboard better and crisper than the X5 (i haven t had a chance to see the digital dash on the 2018 X5) + Frunk storage (though overall rear storage seems comparable) + Summon mode and remote a c activation (the latter being very practical for the cold NY winters) + Seats are more comfortable than the X5 + The HD rear view camera itself is better than the rear view on the X5 (though it does not make up for the missing 360 view) + Don t have to deal haggle with a franchise dealership to purchase (though i will say that i found BMW s service in lower Westchester NY quite good) + Saves the planet (no gas!) Am I missing any facts? Edit: Added point about crash test performance. | > Need some objective advice You ve come to the wrong place partner. | You can even preheat the Tesla inside the garage without worrying about the smell and toxic fumes. Getting an X5 for the family is kinda like [this cyanide and happiness short.](https: youtu.be PcT-zK8MSyI) | 60 | 6 | 1,588 |
6zmlte | 24 | Need some objective advice: BMW X5 3.0 vs. Model X 100D I m new to this subreddit and have found it very helpful over the last 6-8 weeks that I ve been researching this topic. I am on my second BMW X5 and the lease ends in the next few weeks. I ve always done build-to-order X5s so I m looking at an X5 or MX. I ve been trying to decide between getting the 2018 X5 3.0 (5 seater heavily loaded) or the Model X 100D (6 seater version with all options other than FSD). Either would be built to order (California or South Carolina!) and I need to place an order next week(ish). We are family of 4. I wanted to get feedback... OBJECTIVELY speaking am I missing any considerations? I ve listed down the major +ves for each of the cars as i see it. PS - This is based on my 4-5 day test drive of a borrowed MX 75D from a friend. The case for the X5 3.0 + Comparably loaded it costs about $20K less (after adjusting for the tax breaks) but before fuel savings + Heads up display ... believe it or not this is probably what I d miss #1 if I went MX + 360 view ... this is what I d miss #2. Super helpful for parking and tight spaces. + No issues with repairs. On the other hand I ve heard read stories about MX sitting at the workshop for months for body damage repairs + Regular type rear doors. The Falcon Wing Doors seem a bit of over engineered novelty that will causes mechanical issues and takes too long to open close + Solid navigation system with traffic aware rerouting. Don t need to fiddle with Waze Google Maps. + No vapor ware . What s promised is available when I buy the car. + No range anxiety on long road-trips adjust trip for supercharging + Comes with runflat tires built-in (no addl. expense to replace factory tires no need to wait by the side of the road on a flat or try and fix it by roadside!) + Good iPhone integration (much much better than Model X). CarPlay option in 2018 X5 as well. + Windscreen on the Model X is awesome however too bright in the August sun. The shade that comes with it is cumbersome and not practical to regularly install remove + Better rear windscreen visibility (also has a wiper... thought i did not drive the MX in rain) + Better insurance rates like for like (I checked with GEICO in NY) The case for the X 100D + Drives like a dream. Superb acceleration. Great handling. + Head-turner design. Amazing styling and the falcon wing doors open close catch attention. + Better crash test performance + AP2 2.5 is already significantly better and more functional then BMW s Driver Assistance Plus package. + Slightly more hush ride compared to the X5 (less NVH). Both on 20 wheels. + Compared to the X5 the MX third row seats are actually usable + Over the air updates... continuous improvements available over the lifetime of the car (though I also see that Tesla from time to time can disable features as well) + 17 screen ... bright crisp and easy to use interface (maybe indeed better than iDrive). Maps looks good. Controls are easy. + Digital dashboard better and crisper than the X5 (i haven t had a chance to see the digital dash on the 2018 X5) + Frunk storage (though overall rear storage seems comparable) + Summon mode and remote a c activation (the latter being very practical for the cold NY winters) + Seats are more comfortable than the X5 + The HD rear view camera itself is better than the rear view on the X5 (though it does not make up for the missing 360 view) + Don t have to deal haggle with a franchise dealership to purchase (though i will say that i found BMW s service in lower Westchester NY quite good) + Saves the planet (no gas!) Am I missing any facts? Edit: Added point about crash test performance. | > Need some objective advice You ve come to the wrong place partner. | My impression as a Model S owner is that BMW gives a far better premium experience. With the X5 you can get HUD way better headlights (adaptive) less wind noise etc. Tesla got great drive train battery technology and OTA functionality but the lack of build quality and premium features is a real downer. I love Tesla but at the price you can get other cars with way more features and better quality. | 60 | 7 | 1,589 |
6zr4q5 | 45 | Tesla Model 3 Production line An anonymous tipster sent me pictures of the Model 3 production line. I don t want to host them on my site given their sensitivity. They were not taken by him but from another source which got passed along... Tipster relays they re making around 15 cars or so a day and climbing. UPDATE: Sorry folks decided to delete the images about the Model 3 line. Change of heart on my end. | Negative comments about the pictures won t change the actual conditions. Removing the pictures because negative comments are bad for Tesla doesn t sound like the most transparent thing to me. **EDIT**: By allowing critical opinion in this sub we become less circle-jerky and more credible. | Looks more like 0 day! s 30 in July... supposedly 100 in August. Now we re at 450 mo in the ~middle of Sept. What was the target again? 1500 for Sept? Edit: Also as someone who works with a HVM (high volume manufacturing) facility... these images scream lack of Lean Six Sigma lol. Parts laying on the floor?! Trip hazards? OSHA would have a field day Most images seem like spare parts off the line because I d imagine they d have some sort of automated handling system to carry each part from start to finish? But I don t build cars so not sure | 45 | 2 | 1,590 |
6zr4q5 | 45 | Tesla Model 3 Production line An anonymous tipster sent me pictures of the Model 3 production line. I don t want to host them on my site given their sensitivity. They were not taken by him but from another source which got passed along... Tipster relays they re making around 15 cars or so a day and climbing. UPDATE: Sorry folks decided to delete the images about the Model 3 line. Change of heart on my end. | Negative comments about the pictures won t change the actual conditions. Removing the pictures because negative comments are bad for Tesla doesn t sound like the most transparent thing to me. **EDIT**: By allowing critical opinion in this sub we become less circle-jerky and more credible. | Not all heroes wear capes! Edit: Retracted after the pics were removed. Although I was pleased to hear the update on production numbers even if they don t appear to be on track... | 45 | 3 | 1,591 |
6zr4q5 | 45 | Tesla Model 3 Production line An anonymous tipster sent me pictures of the Model 3 production line. I don t want to host them on my site given their sensitivity. They were not taken by him but from another source which got passed along... Tipster relays they re making around 15 cars or so a day and climbing. UPDATE: Sorry folks decided to delete the images about the Model 3 line. Change of heart on my end. | Guys what you a seeing in these pics is the Model3 Body-in-white (BIW) Robotic production line. This line is where the body panels are welded to the frame floor of the car. After the completed chassis of the car leaves this line it goes to the paint shop and THEN to the General Assembly Line. Judging from these undated pictures they workers in hard hats and construction vests are test out and tuning the various stages of this Robotic BIW line. This line is clearly not in Production yet. There are ladders and support tubing laying on the ground and on wood pallets. This is NOT a sloppy production line. It s not LIVE yet. I hope these comments help your understanding I ve toured the factory a few times. | Looks more like 0 day! s 30 in July... supposedly 100 in August. Now we re at 450 mo in the ~middle of Sept. What was the target again? 1500 for Sept? Edit: Also as someone who works with a HVM (high volume manufacturing) facility... these images scream lack of Lean Six Sigma lol. Parts laying on the floor?! Trip hazards? OSHA would have a field day Most images seem like spare parts off the line because I d imagine they d have some sort of automated handling system to carry each part from start to finish? But I don t build cars so not sure | 42 | 2 | 1,592 |
6zue4n | 95 | Thoughts on Tesla EV Ownership Before and After a Hurricane I m located in southwest Broward county in South Florida (Fort Lauderdale area) close to where civilization meets the Florida Everglades. In my area there were many that lost power during the storm and still do not have power several days later. Before the storm having an EV is without a doubt much better than a gas car. Several days before the storm arrived very long lines formed at gas stations and some waited for a very long time to get gas. I cruised right by went home plugged right in and was charged up ready to go the next day. I didn t even move the car for several days until after the storm because everything was still closed. There was no reason to go anywhere. By the time stores started opening roadways were cleared and power was restored to some areas there were plenty of options to trickle charge at friends charge at other EV owner s homes shopping centers etc. After the storm it was very much the same as before the storm. Many gas stations did not have power but had gas. Others had power but had no gas. The short supply caused long lines at the very few operational gas stations. I think in many (perhaps most) ways it s actually better to own an EV when a natural disaster strikes. With ICE vehicles fuel supply is disrupted and it becomes difficult to refuel. If you re fortunate enough not to lose power for an extended period you ll have transport and will only have to deal with other motorist challenges (debris blocking roadways nonoperational traffic lights etc.). If you do lose power for an extended period you will find other options and others willing to help. | Many people don t realize gas stations still use electric pumps to pump the gas. If there was no power for an extended period of time you wouldn t be able to get gas or charge an EV. If there are local solar installations then you re in great shape. In the apocalypse it s best to have an EV. | This is great. Though on the opposite end of the spectrum some places may be without power for a while Days weeks. This would be a huge issue for an EV driver. | 53 | 5 | 1,593 |
6zue4n | 95 | Thoughts on Tesla EV Ownership Before and After a Hurricane I m located in southwest Broward county in South Florida (Fort Lauderdale area) close to where civilization meets the Florida Everglades. In my area there were many that lost power during the storm and still do not have power several days later. Before the storm having an EV is without a doubt much better than a gas car. Several days before the storm arrived very long lines formed at gas stations and some waited for a very long time to get gas. I cruised right by went home plugged right in and was charged up ready to go the next day. I didn t even move the car for several days until after the storm because everything was still closed. There was no reason to go anywhere. By the time stores started opening roadways were cleared and power was restored to some areas there were plenty of options to trickle charge at friends charge at other EV owner s homes shopping centers etc. After the storm it was very much the same as before the storm. Many gas stations did not have power but had gas. Others had power but had no gas. The short supply caused long lines at the very few operational gas stations. I think in many (perhaps most) ways it s actually better to own an EV when a natural disaster strikes. With ICE vehicles fuel supply is disrupted and it becomes difficult to refuel. If you re fortunate enough not to lose power for an extended period you ll have transport and will only have to deal with other motorist challenges (debris blocking roadways nonoperational traffic lights etc.). If you do lose power for an extended period you will find other options and others willing to help. | Many people don t realize gas stations still use electric pumps to pump the gas. If there was no power for an extended period of time you wouldn t be able to get gas or charge an EV. If there are local solar installations then you re in great shape. In the apocalypse it s best to have an EV. | I am in Orlando. Agreed...ICE is a limitation. There was no fuel stress before or after the storm for me. | 53 | 7 | 1,594 |
6zwwru | 58 | Stuck in Quartzite with no supercharger! Driving from Phoenix to LA. I arrive in Quartzite to charge up for the rest of the drive. Terrible story but there was an officer involved shooting this morning including a car chase that happened to end right near the supercharger! Police won t let me though so I am stuck charging at an RV camp nearby. What should have taken 20 minutes is now going to take 3 hours. I have actually never felt range anxiety before and this is a little different but it still really stinks. I have to get well over 120 miles of real range to make it to the next supercharger. There isn t event another brands charging station anywhere closer (destination charger chargepoint etc) This is the ONLY time I have ever felt even a slight bit of regret related to going full electric. | FWIW I thank you for being an early adopter. Without people like you the Model 3 wouldn t be a thing. As with all relatively new technology there will be a few bumps along the way but I m glad that there are people like you who are willing to ride out those bumps to get us all there someday. | That sucks but it is a reality. Have you checked Plugshare for any locals with a Wall Connector willing to lend some juice? | 44 | 17 | 1,595 |
6zxm9f | 23 | This is a long shot where can I find the flooring used at the Hawthorne Supercharger lounge? I know this subreddit is more about Tesla products but felt this might be worth the shot. I m searching everywhere but can t really find something like it. I found it at Tesla s Hawthorne Supercharger lounge. It looked really smooth and clean. Would love rectangular tiles too. [Photo](https: imgur.com 9QRsbxk) I ve gone to a few tile places in town but I m only finding stone tiles. Found porcelain at another place. It just didn t look the same and they all have that speckle stone look to them up close. What s the best way to find this material? | Daltile Unity color is P400 Avorio in 12 x24 size with polished finish. Stacked bond installation pattern looks like 1 8 grout joints. Any tile dealer near you who carries Daltile (which is probably almost all of them) should be able to order you in a free full size sample tile if you can wait a few days. Likely none of them would have a sample on hand. The price will probably cost around 6 and a half to 7 bucks per square foot. Hope this helps! | Architectural materials and supplies for commercial projects are quite different (and more expensive) than residential materials and supplies. If you re determined and willing to do some work your best bet is to try and figure out who was the architect on that building (you can call the building owner or the town will have it on record when they issued the permit) then call the architects. | 87 | 6 | 1,596 |
6zxzoj | 59 | Tesla Mobile Service is coming to fix my brakes. I got a call today from Tesla to get my brakes fixed per the service bulletin. They will be coming to me tomorrow within a 1 hour window. This is sounding so much better than having to drop it off at a dealership . | Upvote for not typing **Tesla Mobile Service is coming to fix my breaks** | Please follow up with a post after the fix. | 40 | 12 | 1,597 |
70b83d | 287 | Elon on Twitter: Elon made 107 statements about the future in the last 12 months. Only 34 came true. I grabbed all the public tweets the CEO of the most valuable US car manufacturer has made in the last 12 months and cut them down to ones related to Tesla and then statements about what the vehicles or company could do in the future. Stats: * He posted about 184 times about Tesla total. * 144 of those communicated to the public that something would happen in the future. * 34 of those things happened. * 73 did not. * The remaining 37 require the future to occur to know. Other interesting notes: * On average he tweets 40 days away from the end of a quarter so no particular evidence that he does this to drive sales. * Of the 34 ones that came true most were references to things happening within a week of the tweet. 10% of those were for one software release happening a week from then. However more tweets about something happening within a week were false than true. * Of the 34 that came true at least 9 were updates to previous missed dates. * If you re willing to ignore any date given and just ask did it ever come true then out of the 73 ones that didn t come true only 17 of those eventually came true. Thus ignoring dates the ratio is still only 51 out of 107. I m sure people will have some dispute about how I ranked tweets. Feel free to do your own analysis and post an alternate view. But to me it s clear that on average what he says will happen doesn t happen. It s fascinating behavior for a CEO of such a large public company. [link to spreadsheet](https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d e 2PACX-1vTFsrFfptH3BDC_J69TtFRHa8KFpPW6s6A5TyC3_HOzQzmp0mqiGruLtuEEUMWCCIshohFke-3kZyCV pubhtml?gid=0& single=false) | Thanks for compiling.. its good reading.. but i m sorry your sorting columns are so inconsistently marked and biased it s painful. have we come to the end of the future? How many of the predictions that didn t come true WHEN he said aren t still being worked towards? Of your 73 no s you mention 17 did happen late.. of the remaining 56 you mark that never came true i count * 11 you marked no & never for 8.1 update.. that happened in march * 12 you marked no AND never for feature tweets in the last 3 months not even stating release dates..really? never ? It s way too soon for even no . * no & never for Model 3 offering higher range than bolt? it does offer higher range. That reduces.. at best the never count to 32 Being wrong in time is not the same as being wrong in direction. I could easily take your same sheet and say. **Of the 144 ** * 35 completed on time * 28 completed late * Only 5 reference things later said were cut or not going to work or are impossible now. * 32 reference dates that haven t come yet. * leaving a mixed list of 49 either undated unverified wrong or still in progress. (I m pretty sure a large number of your 37 ? can be marked Y or N for came true and some can be marked Y in the ever column) If all 49 of those never happen.. he d be 63 wins 54 losses and 32 too soon to tell. Of the topics he s commented on he s verifiably complete on 63 of them. Can t possibly deliver on 5 of them. Has 32 future statements we can t judge as of today. and has 44 either unverified or still work in progress. (I ll grant you 90% of the WIP are later than he expected) I think you are probably close to correct on one statistic.. Only about 33 107 predictions is he right about the timing of something.. Hardly news.. that s what we call ( Elon Standard Time ) | To be fair that s 34 more changes to the future than I have been involved in I guess... | 362 | 2 | 1,598 |
70b83d | 287 | Elon on Twitter: Elon made 107 statements about the future in the last 12 months. Only 34 came true. I grabbed all the public tweets the CEO of the most valuable US car manufacturer has made in the last 12 months and cut them down to ones related to Tesla and then statements about what the vehicles or company could do in the future. Stats: * He posted about 184 times about Tesla total. * 144 of those communicated to the public that something would happen in the future. * 34 of those things happened. * 73 did not. * The remaining 37 require the future to occur to know. Other interesting notes: * On average he tweets 40 days away from the end of a quarter so no particular evidence that he does this to drive sales. * Of the 34 ones that came true most were references to things happening within a week of the tweet. 10% of those were for one software release happening a week from then. However more tweets about something happening within a week were false than true. * Of the 34 that came true at least 9 were updates to previous missed dates. * If you re willing to ignore any date given and just ask did it ever come true then out of the 73 ones that didn t come true only 17 of those eventually came true. Thus ignoring dates the ratio is still only 51 out of 107. I m sure people will have some dispute about how I ranked tweets. Feel free to do your own analysis and post an alternate view. But to me it s clear that on average what he says will happen doesn t happen. It s fascinating behavior for a CEO of such a large public company. [link to spreadsheet](https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d e 2PACX-1vTFsrFfptH3BDC_J69TtFRHa8KFpPW6s6A5TyC3_HOzQzmp0mqiGruLtuEEUMWCCIshohFke-3kZyCV pubhtml?gid=0& single=false) | Thanks for compiling.. its good reading.. but i m sorry your sorting columns are so inconsistently marked and biased it s painful. have we come to the end of the future? How many of the predictions that didn t come true WHEN he said aren t still being worked towards? Of your 73 no s you mention 17 did happen late.. of the remaining 56 you mark that never came true i count * 11 you marked no & never for 8.1 update.. that happened in march * 12 you marked no AND never for feature tweets in the last 3 months not even stating release dates..really? never ? It s way too soon for even no . * no & never for Model 3 offering higher range than bolt? it does offer higher range. That reduces.. at best the never count to 32 Being wrong in time is not the same as being wrong in direction. I could easily take your same sheet and say. **Of the 144 ** * 35 completed on time * 28 completed late * Only 5 reference things later said were cut or not going to work or are impossible now. * 32 reference dates that haven t come yet. * leaving a mixed list of 49 either undated unverified wrong or still in progress. (I m pretty sure a large number of your 37 ? can be marked Y or N for came true and some can be marked Y in the ever column) If all 49 of those never happen.. he d be 63 wins 54 losses and 32 too soon to tell. Of the topics he s commented on he s verifiably complete on 63 of them. Can t possibly deliver on 5 of them. Has 32 future statements we can t judge as of today. and has 44 either unverified or still work in progress. (I ll grant you 90% of the WIP are later than he expected) I think you are probably close to correct on one statistic.. Only about 33 107 predictions is he right about the timing of something.. Hardly news.. that s what we call ( Elon Standard Time ) | Who cares about these minor details. Model 3 is being delivered in 2017 which last year everybody said was impossible. | 362 | 2 | 1,599 |
70b83d | 287 | Elon on Twitter: Elon made 107 statements about the future in the last 12 months. Only 34 came true. I grabbed all the public tweets the CEO of the most valuable US car manufacturer has made in the last 12 months and cut them down to ones related to Tesla and then statements about what the vehicles or company could do in the future. Stats: * He posted about 184 times about Tesla total. * 144 of those communicated to the public that something would happen in the future. * 34 of those things happened. * 73 did not. * The remaining 37 require the future to occur to know. Other interesting notes: * On average he tweets 40 days away from the end of a quarter so no particular evidence that he does this to drive sales. * Of the 34 ones that came true most were references to things happening within a week of the tweet. 10% of those were for one software release happening a week from then. However more tweets about something happening within a week were false than true. * Of the 34 that came true at least 9 were updates to previous missed dates. * If you re willing to ignore any date given and just ask did it ever come true then out of the 73 ones that didn t come true only 17 of those eventually came true. Thus ignoring dates the ratio is still only 51 out of 107. I m sure people will have some dispute about how I ranked tweets. Feel free to do your own analysis and post an alternate view. But to me it s clear that on average what he says will happen doesn t happen. It s fascinating behavior for a CEO of such a large public company. [link to spreadsheet](https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d e 2PACX-1vTFsrFfptH3BDC_J69TtFRHa8KFpPW6s6A5TyC3_HOzQzmp0mqiGruLtuEEUMWCCIshohFke-3kZyCV pubhtml?gid=0& single=false) | Thanks for compiling.. its good reading.. but i m sorry your sorting columns are so inconsistently marked and biased it s painful. have we come to the end of the future? How many of the predictions that didn t come true WHEN he said aren t still being worked towards? Of your 73 no s you mention 17 did happen late.. of the remaining 56 you mark that never came true i count * 11 you marked no & never for 8.1 update.. that happened in march * 12 you marked no AND never for feature tweets in the last 3 months not even stating release dates..really? never ? It s way too soon for even no . * no & never for Model 3 offering higher range than bolt? it does offer higher range. That reduces.. at best the never count to 32 Being wrong in time is not the same as being wrong in direction. I could easily take your same sheet and say. **Of the 144 ** * 35 completed on time * 28 completed late * Only 5 reference things later said were cut or not going to work or are impossible now. * 32 reference dates that haven t come yet. * leaving a mixed list of 49 either undated unverified wrong or still in progress. (I m pretty sure a large number of your 37 ? can be marked Y or N for came true and some can be marked Y in the ever column) If all 49 of those never happen.. he d be 63 wins 54 losses and 32 too soon to tell. Of the topics he s commented on he s verifiably complete on 63 of them. Can t possibly deliver on 5 of them. Has 32 future statements we can t judge as of today. and has 44 either unverified or still work in progress. (I ll grant you 90% of the WIP are later than he expected) I think you are probably close to correct on one statistic.. Only about 33 107 predictions is he right about the timing of something.. Hardly news.. that s what we call ( Elon Standard Time ) | To be fair that s 34 more changes to the future than I have been involved in I guess... | 362 | 3 | 1,600 |
70ogr9 | 65 | I live in Miami and was without power due to Irma Top post on all is how fpl is denying those with solar panels to use their panels in time of emergency which made me wonder. In the market for a home where I plan to eventually put a tesla roof and powerwall. Does anyone know in Florida if you could be off fpl grid altogether and if the roof+powerwall is a viable option for a whole household consumption? I can provide more details on current power use if requested and apologies if this does not go here. | Going 100% off grid is ballsy. I m sure with 2-3 powerwalls and enough panels to power 120% of your needs (extra room for eventual degredation) it could be done though. But idk if the finances would work out in your favor | Could you share that article? | 33 | 5 | 1,601 |
70wgfd | 24 | Production curve has started liftoff! Config should be opening next month right? (Estimated delivery Nov - Jan) Am I looking at this right? If *delivery* is estimated as soon as Nov we should see the config open to start taking official orders from non-employees in the next 30 days! Is that right or are they going to wait until they have have a massive stockpile before they open the config? Edit: I was hoping they explained this plan in an earnings call I missed or something. Anyone on first production is basically getting the same config so waiting and stockpiling for ~7 day delivery after official order would make the customer experience less agonizing I suppose haha. Then again an earlier config date would let them start flushing cars out as they come off the line without the need of massive housing for stockpiling. Waiting up to another 3 months after the official order having already waited over a year would drive my anticipation off the charts though. I might have a heart attack because of this. My life is in your hands Telsa. s | 3 weeks maybe 6 weeks definitely. | We don t know. Either are possible. I personally believe that they will open the config but much later than we see for S X since there are fewer configurable options. | 60 | 4 | 1,602 |
70wgfd | 24 | Production curve has started liftoff! Config should be opening next month right? (Estimated delivery Nov - Jan) Am I looking at this right? If *delivery* is estimated as soon as Nov we should see the config open to start taking official orders from non-employees in the next 30 days! Is that right or are they going to wait until they have have a massive stockpile before they open the config? Edit: I was hoping they explained this plan in an earnings call I missed or something. Anyone on first production is basically getting the same config so waiting and stockpiling for ~7 day delivery after official order would make the customer experience less agonizing I suppose haha. Then again an earlier config date would let them start flushing cars out as they come off the line without the need of massive housing for stockpiling. Waiting up to another 3 months after the official order having already waited over a year would drive my anticipation off the charts though. I might have a heart attack because of this. My life is in your hands Telsa. s | 3 weeks maybe 6 weeks definitely. | Rather unlikely they would be building a stockpile. That would be a lot of dead capital while Tesla is actually trying to increase cash flow. | 60 | 6 | 1,603 |
70wgfd | 24 | Production curve has started liftoff! Config should be opening next month right? (Estimated delivery Nov - Jan) Am I looking at this right? If *delivery* is estimated as soon as Nov we should see the config open to start taking official orders from non-employees in the next 30 days! Is that right or are they going to wait until they have have a massive stockpile before they open the config? Edit: I was hoping they explained this plan in an earnings call I missed or something. Anyone on first production is basically getting the same config so waiting and stockpiling for ~7 day delivery after official order would make the customer experience less agonizing I suppose haha. Then again an earlier config date would let them start flushing cars out as they come off the line without the need of massive housing for stockpiling. Waiting up to another 3 months after the official order having already waited over a year would drive my anticipation off the charts though. I might have a heart attack because of this. My life is in your hands Telsa. s | 3 weeks maybe 6 weeks definitely. | There are current owners (S & X) with delivery dates of Oct - Dec so I figure we (Nov-Jan deliveries) will have at least 30 days of warning before our s go live. | 60 | 11 | 1,604 |
71hkjg | 113 | Model 3 Image Configurator The image configurator seems to be set up to work for the Model 3. https: www.tesla.com en_CA configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options= Has anyone managed to find a string op option codes for a delivered Model 3 that can be used to render a complete image with paint wheels etc? | Here are links to all combinations: * [Deep Blue Metallic Seats View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSB) * [Deep Blue Metallic 18 Aero Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSB W38B) * [Deep Blue Metallic 19 Sport Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSB W39B) * [Deep Blue Metallic 18 Aero Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSB W38B) * [Deep Blue Metallic 19 Sport Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSB W39B) * [Midnight Silver Metallic Seats View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMNG) * [Midnight Silver Metallic 18 Aero Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMNG W38B) * [Midnight Silver Metallic 19 Sport Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMNG W39B) * [Midnight Silver Metallic 18 Aero Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMNG W38B) * [Midnight Silver Metallic 19 Sport Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMNG W39B) * [Pearl White Multi-Coat Seats View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSW) * [Pearl White Multi-Coat 18 Aero Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSW W38B) * [Pearl White Multi-Coat 19 Sport Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSW W39B) * [Pearl White Multi-Coat 18 Aero Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSW W38B) * [Pearl White Multi-Coat 19 Sport Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPSW W39B) * [Red Multi-Coat Seats View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPMR) * [Red Multi-Coat 18 Aero Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPMR W38B) * [Red Multi-Coat 19 Sport Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPMR W39B) * [Red Multi-Coat 18 Aero Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPMR W38B) * [Red Multi-Coat 19 Sport Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PPMR W39B) * [Silver Metallic Seats View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMSS) * [Silver Metallic 18 Aero Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMSS W38B) * [Silver Metallic 19 Sport Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMSS W39B) * [Silver Metallic 18 Aero Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMSS W38B) * [Silver Metallic 19 Sport Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PMSS W39B) * [Solid Black Seats View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PBSB) * [Solid Black 18 Aero Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PBSB W38B) * [Solid Black 19 Sport Wheels Side View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SIDE& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PBSB W39B) * [Solid Black 18 Aero Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PBSB W38B) * [Solid Black 19 Sport Wheels Three Quarter View](https: www.tesla.com configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_3QTR& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PBSB W39B) Credit goes to the OP u incinie for finding the first link with the three quarter view and starting this thread and for finding the colors blue grey black and red. Credit goes to u kornerz for discovering the seats view and the white color. I added the silver color and the side view. Credit goes to u SeBsZ for finding the wheels. | There s also a STUD_SEAT view available: https: www.tesla.com en_CA configurator compositor ?model=m3& view=STUD_SEAT& size=1900& file_type=jpg& options=PBSB | 65 | 5 | 1,605 |
Subsets and Splits