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rehhid | 265 | Holy Phantom Braking Batman! Same trip 3 beta versions almost no improvements I know there are lots of posts really hyping these updates but I m not seeing a lot of the improvements people are mentioning. 2021 Model Y A 50 mile country road where there are like 3 traffic lights clear skies sun not on cameras and barely any traffic. # **Phantom braking for me is any abrupt braking that is NOT necessary. Whether it s slam on breaks or going 66 mph then abruptly dropping to 60 and you feel the change on your body.** **First FSD update** - it sometimes would miss the lanes or go into the turning lanes. Phantom breaking constantly even on straight open sections without trees or shadows. Didn t even attempt it at night. **10.6** - Did the same drive again this afternoon same environment situations and it stayed in the correct lane. That was a plus! But the phantom braking I think got worse. Had to hit the camera button like 15 times. Wife was getting super frustrated. **10.6.1** - Actually got it tonight! Saw there were night time improvements. So I tried it on the way home. Nope! Phantom breaking galore. This time the wife stopped me after 3 of them. No more FSD on the way home. Again no traffic roads clearly visible with high beams and headlights and lane lines clearly marked. I couldn t even use regular cruise control because it still deals with the phantom braking…!!! **— Other issues —** As for speed limits there are constant changes on this road. From 60 > 55 > 45 > 40 > 35 and back up to 60. There will be signs spaced out with those numbers especially when it goes through the few traffic lights. The car will see it max speed will adjust but it will take a long time to slow down. If there was a cop on the other side of one I d definitely would get ticketed. And the signs are pretty spaced out. Felt like half a mile to a mile each or so. I thought FSD was supposed to “follow” the lead car if it couldn t see the lines. Either way lead car was close we were passing through an intersection and the car veered to the right because the lane opened up a bit. All it had to do was stay straight and following the lead car would have done this. Still centers itself on merge lanes or wide lanes. Still drives to close to center especially on 2 lane roads I would like to drive closer to the right edge. Oh and last thing 2 lane road opposite lane had lots of motorcycles. When they d pass by the car would veer right as if giving them space. Cool. But it was too much and too abrupt. I m seeing big improvements on NOA but not sure if those are updated map data because I don t think these updates affect that. | Phantom braking is training me to immediately apply accelerator as soon as I feel the car decelerate and I don t immediately see the reason. I fear someone is going to develop this same response get into a situation where the car notices a danger they don t and override the safety action into an accident. Phantom Braking is giving tesla a bad name and they don t even seem to care. If I m driving down the road continuously brake checking people people are going to either think I m an asshole tesla driver or after a while think Teslas are terrible at driving themselves. The people who I try to show off the car to are never going to want Teslas if they experience the phantom braking I ve experienced. It s honestly embarrassing to have paid $60k for a car that can t maintain a speed even in regular cruise control. And before anyone says ItS BeTA sOFtWAre no it isn t. My car shipped vision only in June had phantom braking ever since. FSD didn t change that. Every single person who buys a new tesla gets phantom braking and I feel sorry for those people who have to go through the buyers remorse of buying such an expensive and hyped up car just to have it literally not be able to maintain cruise control speed. My 1995 Honda Accord could do that FFS. rant | In one of the YouTube videos I saw phantom braking was happening due to a large red colored signage on a building. That said Phantom breaking is common in non Tesla vehicles as well. On my Lexus SUV I experience phantom braking when I cross a large tree which has a shadow on the road. I suspect radar systems should also be used and not just cameras for FSD. | 116 | 2 | 9,206 |
rehhid | 265 | Holy Phantom Braking Batman! Same trip 3 beta versions almost no improvements I know there are lots of posts really hyping these updates but I m not seeing a lot of the improvements people are mentioning. 2021 Model Y A 50 mile country road where there are like 3 traffic lights clear skies sun not on cameras and barely any traffic. # **Phantom braking for me is any abrupt braking that is NOT necessary. Whether it s slam on breaks or going 66 mph then abruptly dropping to 60 and you feel the change on your body.** **First FSD update** - it sometimes would miss the lanes or go into the turning lanes. Phantom breaking constantly even on straight open sections without trees or shadows. Didn t even attempt it at night. **10.6** - Did the same drive again this afternoon same environment situations and it stayed in the correct lane. That was a plus! But the phantom braking I think got worse. Had to hit the camera button like 15 times. Wife was getting super frustrated. **10.6.1** - Actually got it tonight! Saw there were night time improvements. So I tried it on the way home. Nope! Phantom breaking galore. This time the wife stopped me after 3 of them. No more FSD on the way home. Again no traffic roads clearly visible with high beams and headlights and lane lines clearly marked. I couldn t even use regular cruise control because it still deals with the phantom braking…!!! **— Other issues —** As for speed limits there are constant changes on this road. From 60 > 55 > 45 > 40 > 35 and back up to 60. There will be signs spaced out with those numbers especially when it goes through the few traffic lights. The car will see it max speed will adjust but it will take a long time to slow down. If there was a cop on the other side of one I d definitely would get ticketed. And the signs are pretty spaced out. Felt like half a mile to a mile each or so. I thought FSD was supposed to “follow” the lead car if it couldn t see the lines. Either way lead car was close we were passing through an intersection and the car veered to the right because the lane opened up a bit. All it had to do was stay straight and following the lead car would have done this. Still centers itself on merge lanes or wide lanes. Still drives to close to center especially on 2 lane roads I would like to drive closer to the right edge. Oh and last thing 2 lane road opposite lane had lots of motorcycles. When they d pass by the car would veer right as if giving them space. Cool. But it was too much and too abrupt. I m seeing big improvements on NOA but not sure if those are updated map data because I don t think these updates affect that. | Phantom braking is training me to immediately apply accelerator as soon as I feel the car decelerate and I don t immediately see the reason. I fear someone is going to develop this same response get into a situation where the car notices a danger they don t and override the safety action into an accident. Phantom Braking is giving tesla a bad name and they don t even seem to care. If I m driving down the road continuously brake checking people people are going to either think I m an asshole tesla driver or after a while think Teslas are terrible at driving themselves. The people who I try to show off the car to are never going to want Teslas if they experience the phantom braking I ve experienced. It s honestly embarrassing to have paid $60k for a car that can t maintain a speed even in regular cruise control. And before anyone says ItS BeTA sOFtWAre no it isn t. My car shipped vision only in June had phantom braking ever since. FSD didn t change that. Every single person who buys a new tesla gets phantom braking and I feel sorry for those people who have to go through the buyers remorse of buying such an expensive and hyped up car just to have it literally not be able to maintain cruise control speed. My 1995 Honda Accord could do that FFS. rant | Have you guys tried recalibrating the cameras? | 116 | 4 | 9,207 |
rehhid | 265 | Holy Phantom Braking Batman! Same trip 3 beta versions almost no improvements I know there are lots of posts really hyping these updates but I m not seeing a lot of the improvements people are mentioning. 2021 Model Y A 50 mile country road where there are like 3 traffic lights clear skies sun not on cameras and barely any traffic. # **Phantom braking for me is any abrupt braking that is NOT necessary. Whether it s slam on breaks or going 66 mph then abruptly dropping to 60 and you feel the change on your body.** **First FSD update** - it sometimes would miss the lanes or go into the turning lanes. Phantom breaking constantly even on straight open sections without trees or shadows. Didn t even attempt it at night. **10.6** - Did the same drive again this afternoon same environment situations and it stayed in the correct lane. That was a plus! But the phantom braking I think got worse. Had to hit the camera button like 15 times. Wife was getting super frustrated. **10.6.1** - Actually got it tonight! Saw there were night time improvements. So I tried it on the way home. Nope! Phantom breaking galore. This time the wife stopped me after 3 of them. No more FSD on the way home. Again no traffic roads clearly visible with high beams and headlights and lane lines clearly marked. I couldn t even use regular cruise control because it still deals with the phantom braking…!!! **— Other issues —** As for speed limits there are constant changes on this road. From 60 > 55 > 45 > 40 > 35 and back up to 60. There will be signs spaced out with those numbers especially when it goes through the few traffic lights. The car will see it max speed will adjust but it will take a long time to slow down. If there was a cop on the other side of one I d definitely would get ticketed. And the signs are pretty spaced out. Felt like half a mile to a mile each or so. I thought FSD was supposed to “follow” the lead car if it couldn t see the lines. Either way lead car was close we were passing through an intersection and the car veered to the right because the lane opened up a bit. All it had to do was stay straight and following the lead car would have done this. Still centers itself on merge lanes or wide lanes. Still drives to close to center especially on 2 lane roads I would like to drive closer to the right edge. Oh and last thing 2 lane road opposite lane had lots of motorcycles. When they d pass by the car would veer right as if giving them space. Cool. But it was too much and too abrupt. I m seeing big improvements on NOA but not sure if those are updated map data because I don t think these updates affect that. | Phantom braking is training me to immediately apply accelerator as soon as I feel the car decelerate and I don t immediately see the reason. I fear someone is going to develop this same response get into a situation where the car notices a danger they don t and override the safety action into an accident. Phantom Braking is giving tesla a bad name and they don t even seem to care. If I m driving down the road continuously brake checking people people are going to either think I m an asshole tesla driver or after a while think Teslas are terrible at driving themselves. The people who I try to show off the car to are never going to want Teslas if they experience the phantom braking I ve experienced. It s honestly embarrassing to have paid $60k for a car that can t maintain a speed even in regular cruise control. And before anyone says ItS BeTA sOFtWAre no it isn t. My car shipped vision only in June had phantom braking ever since. FSD didn t change that. Every single person who buys a new tesla gets phantom braking and I feel sorry for those people who have to go through the buyers remorse of buying such an expensive and hyped up car just to have it literally not be able to maintain cruise control speed. My 1995 Honda Accord could do that FFS. rant | I m hoping it s a labeling limitation and not a fundamental limitation of pure vision. Phantom braking (underconfidence) is to be expected while the system is still imperfect and in training. The opposite of course would be overconfidence and it would crash frequently. | 116 | 4 | 9,208 |
reu9ss | 73 | First 24hrs with my Model Y Performance (spoiler: full motor failure) **Backstory** I ve always been into cars and I was looking to get a new vehicle as my winter practical car. I m keeping my S4 and 718 Cayman S as well so this was going to be in addition to those 2. I ve been in enough Audi BMW Mercs Porsches and wanted something different. Smooth power roomy interior cool factor and quiet ride were my main considerations. I don t need the all out performance of something like an X3M or GLC63 since I ve got other cars. I wanted this to be a stark contrast to my current 2 vehicles. & nbsp Decided a MYP would be a good fit especially with very strong resale value. I can keep it for a few years and see what the electric market is like with Rivian electric Macan etc. The ordering and delivery process was terrible but that s another story. It was easily the worst dealership experience I ve had buying any car (new or used). & nbsp Anyways I get my car on the evening of Dec 10th. By the afternoon of the 11th it had a rear motor failure followed by a completely dead vehicle that s unable to drive. & nbsp **Motor Failure** Picked up my blue on white MYP on the evening of Dec 10th. By the afternoon of the 11th it had a [rear motor failure](https: imgur.com FqTE42h) and 2 mins later was [completely undriveable](https: imgur.com 2NQjz3W) and had to be towed to the dealer. It was being driven at 60km h when a warning came up about the rear motor. A couple mins later it was fully dead. Luckily I was near a friends house and parked it in their driveway. Would have sucked if this happened on the highway. I googled the error and it seems like this has happened to other people before and usually pretty soon after delivery. Still off too a pretty terrible start with the car. & nbsp Bad things I ve noticed over the first 24hrs coming from someone who s into cars and driven a bunch of stuff on street track: & nbsp **Build Quality:** Wasn t expecting much here so I was ok with some gaps and not having perfect panels. There was some glue residue on the edges of the panoramic roof and there were marks on the headliner when I took delivery. The interior plastic piece on the b pillar has a massive gap between it and the roof on 1 side. Otherwise I m totally ok with it. I knew what I was getting into and wasn t expecting it to be on the level of the germans. & nbsp **Closing the Door:** You have to pull pretty hard to actually close the door. It wasn t just me either. Multiple people failed to close the door properly the first time they tried. You really have to slam it more than any other car I ve owned. Not a very nice experience for the user. I can imagine some older person actually having trouble to close it properly. & nbsp **Honk Upon Lock:** I can t believe this car makes a cheap honk sound when you lock it like some early 2000s GM car. It should 100% have some pleasant sounding chip beep. & nbsp **Loud Seat Motors:** Loudest seat motors I ve heard especially the lumbar. & nbsp **Cheap Carpet Mats:** I ve already installed proper mats but the stock carpet mats (only included for driver and passenger) are the thinnest and cheapest feeling carpet mats I ve experienced. They re so lightweight and flimsy with no impression of quality. This doesn t matter too much but it speaks to the cost cutting happening everywhere. & nbsp **Can t View Songs on Phone?** Unless I m dumb is there actually no way to view a list of all music on my iPhone and pick something? The interface between phone and the car is terrible and super limited. I really hope I m missing something here. There isn t even an easy way to activate Siri since the in-car voice button will trigger the Tesla voice assistant. Very disappointed in the user experience here. & nbsp **Flimsy Sunshades:** Once again more cost cutting. You can easily feel the cardboard inside them. There is absolutely no feeling of quality when operating them. There s also a little flap of fabric that covers the mirror instead of a sliding piece of plastic or plastic cover. Feels like something I d expect in a $10k car. & nbsp **Very Unrefined Suspension:** This is probably my biggest real complaint. It feels like shit. There is no sense of money or R& D put into it. It s so crashy when driving and you can literally hear creaks and noises from the suspension being transmitted into the vehicle while driving (with the music off). The dampening feels like crap and there s no reason for this car to ride this terribly. I bet you an A class has a more upscale feeling suspension. No adaptive dampening available is also a joke. I expected this based on some reviews but it s next level bad. My Cayman S with Sport PASM feels light years ahead in suspension setup. Maybe if you re coming from a Civic or Camry this is acceptable to you but if you ve driven any modern car from a luxury brand this is appalling. & nbsp **Headliner:** I m probably just spoiled but I thought most cars nowadays had a fabric headliner. Not the MYP. It looks like fabric but when you touch it it s a nasty cheap plastic type of material. Come on I get you have to cut costs but this is nearly $100k after tax in Canada. & nbsp **Auto Dimming Mirrors:** These work well enough but the portion of the mirror that auto dims is small. There is a thick border around the auto-dim part of the mirror where it s normal and reflective. I ve never had another car where it stands out this much. You can almost be blinded by lights in this outer border since it s so chunky. It should definitely extend more towards the edges of the mirror. & nbsp **HomeLink Garage Opener:** Just another example of more cost cutting. Even Porsche gives this to you. I m sure it s Tesla being cheap and not wanting to pay the license fee to HomeLink for every car sold. I know they offer it as a dealer accessory for like $400 but come on. & nbsp **Straight Line Speed:** It s actually not as fast as I expected. If you re not used to fast cars this will feel like a space ship. If you re driven modern performance cars it s nothing special. I feel like the MYP has an adequate amount of power. I feel like it needs another 100hp to be classified as a proper performance variant. My other cars both feel just as fast and launch significantly harder with launch control. The MYP rolls into the power softly from a dig. When you re rolling it does feel great - but so does any other modern fast car if you re in the right gear. & nbsp **Blind Spot Monitoring:** It s just sad that the car doesn t have true blind spot monitoring like every other modern car. I knew it didn t have it (the chime assist thing is garbage vs a proper system) so I was prepared for this but just 1 more thing it s missing. & nbsp **Rear Visibility:** Terrible due to the slope of the rear glass. Worse than all its competitors. I m ok with this but some people might not be. & nbsp **Heated Steering Wheel:** It seems to cycle on off to regulate the temperate. The problem is that it s either nice and toasty or very noticeably colder when it turns off. I wish it be consistent. It s a stark contrast and very noticeable as it turns on and off while attempting to maintain a warm wheel. & nbsp **Auto High Beam:** Very inconsistent and basically unusable in my short night time testing. I live near some rural roads with a single lane in each direction and it wasn t very sure about when to turn the high beams on off. I ended up turning it off after getting fed up with the system. & nbsp Good things about the car: & nbsp **Smoothness:** I love how smooth it is with no transmission. This is exactly what I wanted. Both my other cars have a DCT and they get pretty clunky in the winter when cold. It s very nice not to feel any shifts. Smoothness also goes for power delivery. It s not as fast as I expected but I love how smooth it feels when accelerating. & nbsp **Quietness:** I was on the fence about this before getting the car. I expected it to be very loud on the highway based on some things I ve read. I was very happy with the cabin volume and found it to be much quieter than expected. Maybe I m just used to louder performance cars and that s why I think this is quiet but regardless I think interior noise is totally acceptable for what the car is. & nbsp **Interior Space:** This thing is massive inside. I love how much rear seat room you have all the trunks and under floor storage you have. It feels so nice and airy while driving too. The way the windows are positioned and the drivers seat. I love how open it all feels. The white interior also helps out here. & nbsp **Sound System:** I had read some major complaints so I was expecting the worst. It really isn t that bad. It s half decent. Don t go expecting 7 series or S class quality but I think it s totally acceptable for this class of vehicle. Those complaints were way overblown to me. I m using bluetooth streaming from my iPhone which I believe is the 2nd clearest source with USB being the best. & nbsp Overall I still think it s a decent car. I expected the cost cutting and knew about some of the downsides going into it but it s always different once you actually own the car. For the reasons I wanted the car it works well. The suspension is easily the biggest let down. If they give it air suspension increase power and fix up their UX I think they could have nearly perfect compact SUV. And offer some kind of luxury package for $5k to make the interior feel more expensive. Nicer headliner nicer door cards better carpeting more sound deadening etc. & nbsp Also I love to complain and nitpick basically every car so I m definitely more critical than most people. Your average buyer coming from a Prius would love this thing inside and out. I realize I m more spoiled by nicer cars and having spent significant time with luxury brands. & nbsp Lmk if you guys have any questions! Happy to answer them. & nbsp **Edit: replying to some basic questions. Will do more individual responses later on.** Yes I m still happy with the purchase. I knew what I was getting into. I just wanted to share my experience as someone who owns my current 2 cars (2017 Cayman S and 2012 Audi S4 w tune). & nbsp Straight line speed: I have dragy numbers for all 3 cars. With NO rollout: 718 Cayman S - 4.13 seconds Audi S4 w tune - 4.32 seconds Model Y Performance - 4.10 seconds With rollout all 3 cars are easily in the 3 second range. Numbers on paper don t always reflect what a car feels like in real life. I m just saying that I expected the Y Performance to feel faster off the line vs combustion cars but in reality it s nearly identical if you mash the throttle. Again compared to the 2 cars I own. I m not saying it s slow but it s a speed I m used to and find adequate. It doesn t feel like it s crazy fast. It IS very nice for passing power while cruising. | Suspension and speed - you re comparing a CUV to a Porsche Cayman and other “fast cars”? That sounds like a compliment to the MYP. Headliner - ummmm it s like 95% glass. Dead motor - that sucks but Tesla will fix quickly. Can t use Siri - put phone in charger and say “hey Siri..” Rest of the stuff sounds a bit nitpicky. There never has and never will be a perfect car. One might call those quirks and features. | Long story short … | 65 | 5 | 9,209 |
reu9ss | 73 | First 24hrs with my Model Y Performance (spoiler: full motor failure) **Backstory** I ve always been into cars and I was looking to get a new vehicle as my winter practical car. I m keeping my S4 and 718 Cayman S as well so this was going to be in addition to those 2. I ve been in enough Audi BMW Mercs Porsches and wanted something different. Smooth power roomy interior cool factor and quiet ride were my main considerations. I don t need the all out performance of something like an X3M or GLC63 since I ve got other cars. I wanted this to be a stark contrast to my current 2 vehicles. & nbsp Decided a MYP would be a good fit especially with very strong resale value. I can keep it for a few years and see what the electric market is like with Rivian electric Macan etc. The ordering and delivery process was terrible but that s another story. It was easily the worst dealership experience I ve had buying any car (new or used). & nbsp Anyways I get my car on the evening of Dec 10th. By the afternoon of the 11th it had a rear motor failure followed by a completely dead vehicle that s unable to drive. & nbsp **Motor Failure** Picked up my blue on white MYP on the evening of Dec 10th. By the afternoon of the 11th it had a [rear motor failure](https: imgur.com FqTE42h) and 2 mins later was [completely undriveable](https: imgur.com 2NQjz3W) and had to be towed to the dealer. It was being driven at 60km h when a warning came up about the rear motor. A couple mins later it was fully dead. Luckily I was near a friends house and parked it in their driveway. Would have sucked if this happened on the highway. I googled the error and it seems like this has happened to other people before and usually pretty soon after delivery. Still off too a pretty terrible start with the car. & nbsp Bad things I ve noticed over the first 24hrs coming from someone who s into cars and driven a bunch of stuff on street track: & nbsp **Build Quality:** Wasn t expecting much here so I was ok with some gaps and not having perfect panels. There was some glue residue on the edges of the panoramic roof and there were marks on the headliner when I took delivery. The interior plastic piece on the b pillar has a massive gap between it and the roof on 1 side. Otherwise I m totally ok with it. I knew what I was getting into and wasn t expecting it to be on the level of the germans. & nbsp **Closing the Door:** You have to pull pretty hard to actually close the door. It wasn t just me either. Multiple people failed to close the door properly the first time they tried. You really have to slam it more than any other car I ve owned. Not a very nice experience for the user. I can imagine some older person actually having trouble to close it properly. & nbsp **Honk Upon Lock:** I can t believe this car makes a cheap honk sound when you lock it like some early 2000s GM car. It should 100% have some pleasant sounding chip beep. & nbsp **Loud Seat Motors:** Loudest seat motors I ve heard especially the lumbar. & nbsp **Cheap Carpet Mats:** I ve already installed proper mats but the stock carpet mats (only included for driver and passenger) are the thinnest and cheapest feeling carpet mats I ve experienced. They re so lightweight and flimsy with no impression of quality. This doesn t matter too much but it speaks to the cost cutting happening everywhere. & nbsp **Can t View Songs on Phone?** Unless I m dumb is there actually no way to view a list of all music on my iPhone and pick something? The interface between phone and the car is terrible and super limited. I really hope I m missing something here. There isn t even an easy way to activate Siri since the in-car voice button will trigger the Tesla voice assistant. Very disappointed in the user experience here. & nbsp **Flimsy Sunshades:** Once again more cost cutting. You can easily feel the cardboard inside them. There is absolutely no feeling of quality when operating them. There s also a little flap of fabric that covers the mirror instead of a sliding piece of plastic or plastic cover. Feels like something I d expect in a $10k car. & nbsp **Very Unrefined Suspension:** This is probably my biggest real complaint. It feels like shit. There is no sense of money or R& D put into it. It s so crashy when driving and you can literally hear creaks and noises from the suspension being transmitted into the vehicle while driving (with the music off). The dampening feels like crap and there s no reason for this car to ride this terribly. I bet you an A class has a more upscale feeling suspension. No adaptive dampening available is also a joke. I expected this based on some reviews but it s next level bad. My Cayman S with Sport PASM feels light years ahead in suspension setup. Maybe if you re coming from a Civic or Camry this is acceptable to you but if you ve driven any modern car from a luxury brand this is appalling. & nbsp **Headliner:** I m probably just spoiled but I thought most cars nowadays had a fabric headliner. Not the MYP. It looks like fabric but when you touch it it s a nasty cheap plastic type of material. Come on I get you have to cut costs but this is nearly $100k after tax in Canada. & nbsp **Auto Dimming Mirrors:** These work well enough but the portion of the mirror that auto dims is small. There is a thick border around the auto-dim part of the mirror where it s normal and reflective. I ve never had another car where it stands out this much. You can almost be blinded by lights in this outer border since it s so chunky. It should definitely extend more towards the edges of the mirror. & nbsp **HomeLink Garage Opener:** Just another example of more cost cutting. Even Porsche gives this to you. I m sure it s Tesla being cheap and not wanting to pay the license fee to HomeLink for every car sold. I know they offer it as a dealer accessory for like $400 but come on. & nbsp **Straight Line Speed:** It s actually not as fast as I expected. If you re not used to fast cars this will feel like a space ship. If you re driven modern performance cars it s nothing special. I feel like the MYP has an adequate amount of power. I feel like it needs another 100hp to be classified as a proper performance variant. My other cars both feel just as fast and launch significantly harder with launch control. The MYP rolls into the power softly from a dig. When you re rolling it does feel great - but so does any other modern fast car if you re in the right gear. & nbsp **Blind Spot Monitoring:** It s just sad that the car doesn t have true blind spot monitoring like every other modern car. I knew it didn t have it (the chime assist thing is garbage vs a proper system) so I was prepared for this but just 1 more thing it s missing. & nbsp **Rear Visibility:** Terrible due to the slope of the rear glass. Worse than all its competitors. I m ok with this but some people might not be. & nbsp **Heated Steering Wheel:** It seems to cycle on off to regulate the temperate. The problem is that it s either nice and toasty or very noticeably colder when it turns off. I wish it be consistent. It s a stark contrast and very noticeable as it turns on and off while attempting to maintain a warm wheel. & nbsp **Auto High Beam:** Very inconsistent and basically unusable in my short night time testing. I live near some rural roads with a single lane in each direction and it wasn t very sure about when to turn the high beams on off. I ended up turning it off after getting fed up with the system. & nbsp Good things about the car: & nbsp **Smoothness:** I love how smooth it is with no transmission. This is exactly what I wanted. Both my other cars have a DCT and they get pretty clunky in the winter when cold. It s very nice not to feel any shifts. Smoothness also goes for power delivery. It s not as fast as I expected but I love how smooth it feels when accelerating. & nbsp **Quietness:** I was on the fence about this before getting the car. I expected it to be very loud on the highway based on some things I ve read. I was very happy with the cabin volume and found it to be much quieter than expected. Maybe I m just used to louder performance cars and that s why I think this is quiet but regardless I think interior noise is totally acceptable for what the car is. & nbsp **Interior Space:** This thing is massive inside. I love how much rear seat room you have all the trunks and under floor storage you have. It feels so nice and airy while driving too. The way the windows are positioned and the drivers seat. I love how open it all feels. The white interior also helps out here. & nbsp **Sound System:** I had read some major complaints so I was expecting the worst. It really isn t that bad. It s half decent. Don t go expecting 7 series or S class quality but I think it s totally acceptable for this class of vehicle. Those complaints were way overblown to me. I m using bluetooth streaming from my iPhone which I believe is the 2nd clearest source with USB being the best. & nbsp Overall I still think it s a decent car. I expected the cost cutting and knew about some of the downsides going into it but it s always different once you actually own the car. For the reasons I wanted the car it works well. The suspension is easily the biggest let down. If they give it air suspension increase power and fix up their UX I think they could have nearly perfect compact SUV. And offer some kind of luxury package for $5k to make the interior feel more expensive. Nicer headliner nicer door cards better carpeting more sound deadening etc. & nbsp Also I love to complain and nitpick basically every car so I m definitely more critical than most people. Your average buyer coming from a Prius would love this thing inside and out. I realize I m more spoiled by nicer cars and having spent significant time with luxury brands. & nbsp Lmk if you guys have any questions! Happy to answer them. & nbsp **Edit: replying to some basic questions. Will do more individual responses later on.** Yes I m still happy with the purchase. I knew what I was getting into. I just wanted to share my experience as someone who owns my current 2 cars (2017 Cayman S and 2012 Audi S4 w tune). & nbsp Straight line speed: I have dragy numbers for all 3 cars. With NO rollout: 718 Cayman S - 4.13 seconds Audi S4 w tune - 4.32 seconds Model Y Performance - 4.10 seconds With rollout all 3 cars are easily in the 3 second range. Numbers on paper don t always reflect what a car feels like in real life. I m just saying that I expected the Y Performance to feel faster off the line vs combustion cars but in reality it s nearly identical if you mash the throttle. Again compared to the 2 cars I own. I m not saying it s slow but it s a speed I m used to and find adequate. It doesn t feel like it s crazy fast. It IS very nice for passing power while cruising. | Suspension and speed - you re comparing a CUV to a Porsche Cayman and other “fast cars”? That sounds like a compliment to the MYP. Headliner - ummmm it s like 95% glass. Dead motor - that sucks but Tesla will fix quickly. Can t use Siri - put phone in charger and say “hey Siri..” Rest of the stuff sounds a bit nitpicky. There never has and never will be a perfect car. One might call those quirks and features. | Few comments. I don t think you should expect this to have a suspension on par with a Porsche. Same with comparing the performance with performance cars . It s a small SUV. You d call the headliner a cheap plastic? As well as the sun visors. They re a simple thin visor. I don t think they re cheap. The solid magnets for both the visor and the glass cover are nice to me. | 65 | 11 | 9,210 |
reu9ss | 73 | First 24hrs with my Model Y Performance (spoiler: full motor failure) **Backstory** I ve always been into cars and I was looking to get a new vehicle as my winter practical car. I m keeping my S4 and 718 Cayman S as well so this was going to be in addition to those 2. I ve been in enough Audi BMW Mercs Porsches and wanted something different. Smooth power roomy interior cool factor and quiet ride were my main considerations. I don t need the all out performance of something like an X3M or GLC63 since I ve got other cars. I wanted this to be a stark contrast to my current 2 vehicles. & nbsp Decided a MYP would be a good fit especially with very strong resale value. I can keep it for a few years and see what the electric market is like with Rivian electric Macan etc. The ordering and delivery process was terrible but that s another story. It was easily the worst dealership experience I ve had buying any car (new or used). & nbsp Anyways I get my car on the evening of Dec 10th. By the afternoon of the 11th it had a rear motor failure followed by a completely dead vehicle that s unable to drive. & nbsp **Motor Failure** Picked up my blue on white MYP on the evening of Dec 10th. By the afternoon of the 11th it had a [rear motor failure](https: imgur.com FqTE42h) and 2 mins later was [completely undriveable](https: imgur.com 2NQjz3W) and had to be towed to the dealer. It was being driven at 60km h when a warning came up about the rear motor. A couple mins later it was fully dead. Luckily I was near a friends house and parked it in their driveway. Would have sucked if this happened on the highway. I googled the error and it seems like this has happened to other people before and usually pretty soon after delivery. Still off too a pretty terrible start with the car. & nbsp Bad things I ve noticed over the first 24hrs coming from someone who s into cars and driven a bunch of stuff on street track: & nbsp **Build Quality:** Wasn t expecting much here so I was ok with some gaps and not having perfect panels. There was some glue residue on the edges of the panoramic roof and there were marks on the headliner when I took delivery. The interior plastic piece on the b pillar has a massive gap between it and the roof on 1 side. Otherwise I m totally ok with it. I knew what I was getting into and wasn t expecting it to be on the level of the germans. & nbsp **Closing the Door:** You have to pull pretty hard to actually close the door. It wasn t just me either. Multiple people failed to close the door properly the first time they tried. You really have to slam it more than any other car I ve owned. Not a very nice experience for the user. I can imagine some older person actually having trouble to close it properly. & nbsp **Honk Upon Lock:** I can t believe this car makes a cheap honk sound when you lock it like some early 2000s GM car. It should 100% have some pleasant sounding chip beep. & nbsp **Loud Seat Motors:** Loudest seat motors I ve heard especially the lumbar. & nbsp **Cheap Carpet Mats:** I ve already installed proper mats but the stock carpet mats (only included for driver and passenger) are the thinnest and cheapest feeling carpet mats I ve experienced. They re so lightweight and flimsy with no impression of quality. This doesn t matter too much but it speaks to the cost cutting happening everywhere. & nbsp **Can t View Songs on Phone?** Unless I m dumb is there actually no way to view a list of all music on my iPhone and pick something? The interface between phone and the car is terrible and super limited. I really hope I m missing something here. There isn t even an easy way to activate Siri since the in-car voice button will trigger the Tesla voice assistant. Very disappointed in the user experience here. & nbsp **Flimsy Sunshades:** Once again more cost cutting. You can easily feel the cardboard inside them. There is absolutely no feeling of quality when operating them. There s also a little flap of fabric that covers the mirror instead of a sliding piece of plastic or plastic cover. Feels like something I d expect in a $10k car. & nbsp **Very Unrefined Suspension:** This is probably my biggest real complaint. It feels like shit. There is no sense of money or R& D put into it. It s so crashy when driving and you can literally hear creaks and noises from the suspension being transmitted into the vehicle while driving (with the music off). The dampening feels like crap and there s no reason for this car to ride this terribly. I bet you an A class has a more upscale feeling suspension. No adaptive dampening available is also a joke. I expected this based on some reviews but it s next level bad. My Cayman S with Sport PASM feels light years ahead in suspension setup. Maybe if you re coming from a Civic or Camry this is acceptable to you but if you ve driven any modern car from a luxury brand this is appalling. & nbsp **Headliner:** I m probably just spoiled but I thought most cars nowadays had a fabric headliner. Not the MYP. It looks like fabric but when you touch it it s a nasty cheap plastic type of material. Come on I get you have to cut costs but this is nearly $100k after tax in Canada. & nbsp **Auto Dimming Mirrors:** These work well enough but the portion of the mirror that auto dims is small. There is a thick border around the auto-dim part of the mirror where it s normal and reflective. I ve never had another car where it stands out this much. You can almost be blinded by lights in this outer border since it s so chunky. It should definitely extend more towards the edges of the mirror. & nbsp **HomeLink Garage Opener:** Just another example of more cost cutting. Even Porsche gives this to you. I m sure it s Tesla being cheap and not wanting to pay the license fee to HomeLink for every car sold. I know they offer it as a dealer accessory for like $400 but come on. & nbsp **Straight Line Speed:** It s actually not as fast as I expected. If you re not used to fast cars this will feel like a space ship. If you re driven modern performance cars it s nothing special. I feel like the MYP has an adequate amount of power. I feel like it needs another 100hp to be classified as a proper performance variant. My other cars both feel just as fast and launch significantly harder with launch control. The MYP rolls into the power softly from a dig. When you re rolling it does feel great - but so does any other modern fast car if you re in the right gear. & nbsp **Blind Spot Monitoring:** It s just sad that the car doesn t have true blind spot monitoring like every other modern car. I knew it didn t have it (the chime assist thing is garbage vs a proper system) so I was prepared for this but just 1 more thing it s missing. & nbsp **Rear Visibility:** Terrible due to the slope of the rear glass. Worse than all its competitors. I m ok with this but some people might not be. & nbsp **Heated Steering Wheel:** It seems to cycle on off to regulate the temperate. The problem is that it s either nice and toasty or very noticeably colder when it turns off. I wish it be consistent. It s a stark contrast and very noticeable as it turns on and off while attempting to maintain a warm wheel. & nbsp **Auto High Beam:** Very inconsistent and basically unusable in my short night time testing. I live near some rural roads with a single lane in each direction and it wasn t very sure about when to turn the high beams on off. I ended up turning it off after getting fed up with the system. & nbsp Good things about the car: & nbsp **Smoothness:** I love how smooth it is with no transmission. This is exactly what I wanted. Both my other cars have a DCT and they get pretty clunky in the winter when cold. It s very nice not to feel any shifts. Smoothness also goes for power delivery. It s not as fast as I expected but I love how smooth it feels when accelerating. & nbsp **Quietness:** I was on the fence about this before getting the car. I expected it to be very loud on the highway based on some things I ve read. I was very happy with the cabin volume and found it to be much quieter than expected. Maybe I m just used to louder performance cars and that s why I think this is quiet but regardless I think interior noise is totally acceptable for what the car is. & nbsp **Interior Space:** This thing is massive inside. I love how much rear seat room you have all the trunks and under floor storage you have. It feels so nice and airy while driving too. The way the windows are positioned and the drivers seat. I love how open it all feels. The white interior also helps out here. & nbsp **Sound System:** I had read some major complaints so I was expecting the worst. It really isn t that bad. It s half decent. Don t go expecting 7 series or S class quality but I think it s totally acceptable for this class of vehicle. Those complaints were way overblown to me. I m using bluetooth streaming from my iPhone which I believe is the 2nd clearest source with USB being the best. & nbsp Overall I still think it s a decent car. I expected the cost cutting and knew about some of the downsides going into it but it s always different once you actually own the car. For the reasons I wanted the car it works well. The suspension is easily the biggest let down. If they give it air suspension increase power and fix up their UX I think they could have nearly perfect compact SUV. And offer some kind of luxury package for $5k to make the interior feel more expensive. Nicer headliner nicer door cards better carpeting more sound deadening etc. & nbsp Also I love to complain and nitpick basically every car so I m definitely more critical than most people. Your average buyer coming from a Prius would love this thing inside and out. I realize I m more spoiled by nicer cars and having spent significant time with luxury brands. & nbsp Lmk if you guys have any questions! Happy to answer them. & nbsp **Edit: replying to some basic questions. Will do more individual responses later on.** Yes I m still happy with the purchase. I knew what I was getting into. I just wanted to share my experience as someone who owns my current 2 cars (2017 Cayman S and 2012 Audi S4 w tune). & nbsp Straight line speed: I have dragy numbers for all 3 cars. With NO rollout: 718 Cayman S - 4.13 seconds Audi S4 w tune - 4.32 seconds Model Y Performance - 4.10 seconds With rollout all 3 cars are easily in the 3 second range. Numbers on paper don t always reflect what a car feels like in real life. I m just saying that I expected the Y Performance to feel faster off the line vs combustion cars but in reality it s nearly identical if you mash the throttle. Again compared to the 2 cars I own. I m not saying it s slow but it s a speed I m used to and find adequate. It doesn t feel like it s crazy fast. It IS very nice for passing power while cruising. | You might like a Long Range S over Performance Y. Not sure what your music issues are. We use Spotify which is built into the car. Honk on lock is a setting. I have never heard a Tesla honk on lock. You can turn that off. I listen for my mirror motors to know if it locked behind me but it always does automatically. You have to buy new mats. Everyone buys new mats and tons of other accessories. Your motor issues suck. That is a bummer. Tesla will fix it. | I have to agree that the music interface for the car is just brutal. My 2014 BMW had way better integration. I like just playing bluetooth from my phone for music and there is no way at least from what I ve seen to view the music that s on your phone on the screen of the car in a list view or some other kind of format for easy navigating. It s just ridiculous to have to navigate it through the phone and not on the massive touch screen. With that said my overall experience with my M3LR has been great 12 months in otherwise. Haven t had any other issues and only a few interface complaints like the auto wipers and not having a control for the wipers on the steering wheel for better management. The build quality and performance otherwise has been fantastic though so I d definitely recommend and look forward to fulfilling my Cybertruck reservation hopefully next year pr 2023 at the latest. | 46 | 3 | 9,211 |
rg83hl | 27 | Feature Request Megathread Hey Everyone! If you could try to format feature requests by model if needed with a small description and scenario. Also while trying to keep it realistic within the software realm and currently known hardware realm. These will post every 2 weeks. | **Manual Wiper Control**: Pressing the wiper button activates one wipe and brings up the wiper control on the touchscreen as usual. Then the scroll wheels can be used to cycle between the wiper speeds instead of needing to interact with the touchscreen. **Dumb CC**: Cruise Control without any traffic awareness for those who have to deal with phantom braking way more often than they have to and don t want to wait indefinitely for a fix. **Better clearer more direct more communicative and transparent incident reporting system:** Having Autopilot slam on the brakes is a danger to not just the driver but to other people around them. Having the car react to incorrect speed limits is dangerous. Having the car behave erratically because it thinks a truck one lane over is going to ram into it is dangerous. Having the camera interpret random shit in the distance as an Amber Traffic light is dangerous. For a car focussed on safety and accident prevention its systems sure do some dangerous shit. Give us a well defined way to log these incidents report them to Tesla and to log the reports we send in. It s frustrating not knowing whether our problems are even being perceived let alone addressed by Tesla. **More Smartphone integration or Android Auto CarPlay**: Some folks prefer using a navigation system other than what Tesla has built in (such as Google maps Waze etc). Some of use apps other than WhatsApp or the default SMS app for communication (like Signal Telegram etc). Either implement functionality for these features into the Tesla infotainment system or give us access to Android Auto Car Play like most other cars offer. ^(Does) ^(Tesla) ^(even) ^(read) ^(these?) ^(Are) ^(they) ^(any) ^(good?) | * Custom SOC at destination * Better blind spot monitoring. Alert as soon as the turn light is activated. * Pass me to Siri when I say siri for exemple so I can do everything that my phone do but the car can t like weather text or calendar. * Individual easy entry setting * Better step-by-step directions like at the next stop turn left like Apple maps. * Useful waypoints with reordering optimizing and POI near route or near destination. * Live ETA sharing via a link * More help for parallel parking like bird view. | 47 | 2 | 9,212 |
rg83hl | 27 | Feature Request Megathread Hey Everyone! If you could try to format feature requests by model if needed with a small description and scenario. Also while trying to keep it realistic within the software realm and currently known hardware realm. These will post every 2 weeks. | **Manual Wiper Control**: Pressing the wiper button activates one wipe and brings up the wiper control on the touchscreen as usual. Then the scroll wheels can be used to cycle between the wiper speeds instead of needing to interact with the touchscreen. **Dumb CC**: Cruise Control without any traffic awareness for those who have to deal with phantom braking way more often than they have to and don t want to wait indefinitely for a fix. **Better clearer more direct more communicative and transparent incident reporting system:** Having Autopilot slam on the brakes is a danger to not just the driver but to other people around them. Having the car react to incorrect speed limits is dangerous. Having the car behave erratically because it thinks a truck one lane over is going to ram into it is dangerous. Having the camera interpret random shit in the distance as an Amber Traffic light is dangerous. For a car focussed on safety and accident prevention its systems sure do some dangerous shit. Give us a well defined way to log these incidents report them to Tesla and to log the reports we send in. It s frustrating not knowing whether our problems are even being perceived let alone addressed by Tesla. **More Smartphone integration or Android Auto CarPlay**: Some folks prefer using a navigation system other than what Tesla has built in (such as Google maps Waze etc). Some of use apps other than WhatsApp or the default SMS app for communication (like Signal Telegram etc). Either implement functionality for these features into the Tesla infotainment system or give us access to Android Auto Car Play like most other cars offer. ^(Does) ^(Tesla) ^(even) ^(read) ^(these?) ^(Are) ^(they) ^(any) ^(good?) | - All Models: Navigation heading preference should be saved into driver profiles - All Models: Allow users to hide the battery percentage remaining unless battery has less than 20% soc remaining. | 47 | 2 | 9,213 |
rg83hl | 27 | Feature Request Megathread Hey Everyone! If you could try to format feature requests by model if needed with a small description and scenario. Also while trying to keep it realistic within the software realm and currently known hardware realm. These will post every 2 weeks. | **Manual Wiper Control**: Pressing the wiper button activates one wipe and brings up the wiper control on the touchscreen as usual. Then the scroll wheels can be used to cycle between the wiper speeds instead of needing to interact with the touchscreen. **Dumb CC**: Cruise Control without any traffic awareness for those who have to deal with phantom braking way more often than they have to and don t want to wait indefinitely for a fix. **Better clearer more direct more communicative and transparent incident reporting system:** Having Autopilot slam on the brakes is a danger to not just the driver but to other people around them. Having the car react to incorrect speed limits is dangerous. Having the car behave erratically because it thinks a truck one lane over is going to ram into it is dangerous. Having the camera interpret random shit in the distance as an Amber Traffic light is dangerous. For a car focussed on safety and accident prevention its systems sure do some dangerous shit. Give us a well defined way to log these incidents report them to Tesla and to log the reports we send in. It s frustrating not knowing whether our problems are even being perceived let alone addressed by Tesla. **More Smartphone integration or Android Auto CarPlay**: Some folks prefer using a navigation system other than what Tesla has built in (such as Google maps Waze etc). Some of use apps other than WhatsApp or the default SMS app for communication (like Signal Telegram etc). Either implement functionality for these features into the Tesla infotainment system or give us access to Android Auto Car Play like most other cars offer. ^(Does) ^(Tesla) ^(even) ^(read) ^(these?) ^(Are) ^(they) ^(any) ^(good?) | Elgato Stream Deck integration. Would love to be able to have few physical buttons for opening the glovebox togglilng Chill Standard or toggling mirrors auto-dim. This is something they can enable with just software Stream Deck can be plugged in to one of the USB-C ports and I m sure somebody will make a nice mount for it. | 47 | 2 | 9,214 |
rgbls6 | 59 | Planning a Model S drive from NYC to Buenos Aires Argentina Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it s almost impossible to eradicate - Leonardo DiCaprio as Cobb Inception (2010) Before you say this is trolling... it s not. This is an honest request for help feedback! We are a couple currently doing remote work and traveling around the world and we thought this could be an amazing adventure. We got inspired by the story of Gato and Mancha two horses who made a \\~3.5 year trip from Buenos Aires to New York City in 1928. You can read more about it here: [https: second.wiki wiki gato\\_y\\_mancha](https: second.wiki wiki gato_y_mancha) and here: [https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Criollo\\_horse#Endurance](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Criollo_horse#Endurance) At the time it was deemed an impossible feat for horses to endure such a long trip and the successful completion of the journey was great marketing for the Criollo horse breed. That got us thinking... would it be possible to complete the same journey (but in reverse order) with a Tesla car? To the best of my knowledge at the moment this seems like it s bordering the impossible. South America has no Tesla charging stations (see [https: ibb.co NrbFyxt](https: ibb.co NrbFyxt)) so most of the trip would require charging the car at house outlets. Additionally most countries along the way have no Tesla stores so a Tesla car going through could attract too much attention. Road conditions aren t ideal so there s also the risk of car damage along the way. Not to mention the customs hassle of going through \\~10 countries. HOWEVER let s say I wanted to make a plan for the trip and assess technical feasibilty just for fun 👀... do you all think it s possible? If possible it would be amazing to show electric cars are capable of such an epic trip. Some thoughts: (correct me if I m wrong we re not Tesla owners yet) \\- According to Tesla s website the Model S has a 375 mi range. Let s assume it s 300 mi to be safe. \\- Let s divide the trip into two parts: from NYC to Panama City (4 424 mi) take a boat ride to Cartagena (because it s not possible to drive from Panama to Colombia) and then off to Buenos Aires from there (4 626 mi). \\- first half: [https: ibb.co 71RDLJV](https: ibb.co 71RDLJV) \\- second half: [https: ibb.co 5hjGHd5](https: ibb.co 5hjGHd5) \\- The first half of the journey seems the easiest. Half of it is through the US and Mexico which have many Tesla charging stations. I feel like we should be able to drive pretty much non-stop save for resting eating and quick battery recharges. I estimate [the initial stage up to the southernmost Tesla charging station](https: www.google.com maps dir New+York +NY Tesla+Destination+Charger +Calle+Central+Sur+Oriente+94 +Centro +16+de+Septiembre +30700+Tapachula +Chis. +Mexico @26.6186235 -104.412987 4z data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!1m5!1m1!1s0x858e0f1ec3df7a31:0x9d2e2bf347b0d897!2m2!1d-92.2670326!2d14.9004044!3e0) to take roughly 1-2 weeks (we could probably do it in 5 days but why rush it). \\- The hard part starts after leaving Mexico where Tesla charging stations end. \\- According to Tesla s support website ([https: www.tesla.com support home-charging](https: www.tesla.com support home-charging)) the mobile charger which can be plugged to any wall socket recharges at a rate of 2-3 miles per hour. This means a full recharge of 300 miles will need 100-150 hours or 4-6 days. \\- With this in mind we could travel 300 miles each weekend and stop at cities towns farms along the way to do some remote work enjoy the local scenery and get to know the area during the week while the car is recharging. \\- That makes the remaining \\~6 838 miles into roughly \\~23 weeks (6 838 miles (300 miles week) = 22.7933 weeks) or 5-6 months. \\- This makes the total trip 6-7 months. Sounds good to us! I m not a Tesla owner (yet) so advice from long-range trips folks have done would be very appreciated! Do you think Model S is the right Tesla car to do this with? Any other feedback? We especially value technical advice we already know the idea is crazy :P p.s: if anyone from the Tesla team reads this and wants to help us plan the trip please reach out! | Seems like a pretty risky idea honestly. Many other cars make this trip due to their repairability. If your S breaks down on this trip you are flat out screwed. There isn t mobile service that can reach you local mechanics will not be able to address it. You also have charging issues yes in an ideal work you will charge that fast. But unless you have known good charging points with consistent power you are rolling the dice. Then there is the safety risk. Yes over all the countries you are passing through are safe. But add what is viewed as a sign of extreme wealth cruising through and you are begging for issues. | Watch the Long Way Up series. They drive 2 Rivian prototypes from the very bottom of South America to LA. | 91 | 47 | 9,215 |
rggnk8 | 794 | Model 3 Fact-Finding – AWD Split Power Bias ( Snow Mode ) Already Exists Typically even in the AWD Model 3 Y the power is 100% biased to the more efficient rear motor unless you request full acceleration or wheel slip is detected in which case it shifts power regen to whichever axle has the most traction. This initial rear bias is claimed to cause poor control on snowy or icy roads as the initial power surge or regen braking is enough to break traction on the rear wheels and cause the back end to slide out. People try to mitigate this by switching to Chill mode and setting Regen to Low where possible on older cars but one of the oft-requested features for AWD cars is a Snow Mode for snowy weather that permanently splits power and regen equally between front and rear motors to maintain maximum control of the car. I believe this mode already exists in current firmware (I m on 2021.44.5) though it doesn t have a user-accessible toggle. Yesterday while on a road trip I encountered a section of blowing snow on the highway just before one of the planned supercharger stops. My car had been preconditioning the battery for most of the leg beforehand and I was used to the front motor whine that that produces however after completing the charge and setting off again I continued to hear front motor whine at low speeds without another supercharger stop planned which is atypical except for when [battery heating occurs](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments kq39dy model_3_factfinding_winter_edition_effects_of ). It was presently snowing and the ground at the supercharger site was covered in fresh snow whereas previously the highway had been snow-free. Thanks mostly to winter tires control of the car on the snow was excellent (as expected). I looked at the [Scan My Tesla](https: www.scanmytesla.com ) data I d been capturing during the trip and noticed that the car was now splitting all power regen equally between front and rear motors. As I merged back onto the highway the power continued to be split 50 50 even at cruising speed and while on TACC for about 7 more minutes then it gradually shifted back to rear bias and stayed 100% rear biased afterward. Here s a plot of the cleanest portion starting at the last traffic light before merging back onto the highway and showing the transition from 50 50 back to 100% rear bias: https: i.imgur.com j5dZiZ2.png Looking back prior to reaching the supercharger stop I see a section where my travel speed was reduced by slower moving cars and this corresponded to when I d first entered the area with blowing snow and everyone was slowing down but the switch from rear bias to 50 50 didn t occur until my first full stop at the first light and subsequent acceleration and within 10 seconds afterwards the power was immediately shifted from rear to split bias. The motors were also still being heated to precondition the battery at this point and the [distribution of heating power is speed-dependent](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments kq39dy model_3_factfinding_winter_edition_effects_of gi1n9sq ) so the data on motor power bias is not clean at this point but I can clearly see a trend emerge where the front and rear motor powers mimic each other while under load and regen braking. The transition back to rear bias is a linear ramp that lasts 90 seconds and corresponded neatly to where I d left the area with blowing snow and the roads returned to being clear and lane lines visible again so the triggers are either vision-based or it was initially triggered by some slippage event and started a timer that cleared the mode when no further slippage occurred. The fact that I d parked my car and supercharged for 25 minutes and was still getting a 50 50 split bias immediately afterwards makes me lean toward vision being a component of the car s decision to keep a split bias but the initial trigger was likely a wheel slippage event. Interestingly I d tried recreating the scenario when I got home by accelerating over some hard-packed ice from the last snowfall but while this did cause wheel spin and brief use of the front motor it did not trigger the 50 50 split for any longer than the brief few seconds required to clear the icy section. The main roads in the area were all grated sanded or otherwise clear of snow so the car resumed being 100% rear biased almost immediately. | This is the type of content I feel like this sub used to have all the time. Amazing quality and interesting posts. I can t thank wugz enough for posts like this. Reposts of elons tweets “dEliVery dAy!” and false rumors that turn into elektrek articles aren t what make this community interesting. Thank you to everyone who supports great content like this. | dats some nice shit | 205 | 3 | 9,216 |
rggnk8 | 794 | Model 3 Fact-Finding – AWD Split Power Bias ( Snow Mode ) Already Exists Typically even in the AWD Model 3 Y the power is 100% biased to the more efficient rear motor unless you request full acceleration or wheel slip is detected in which case it shifts power regen to whichever axle has the most traction. This initial rear bias is claimed to cause poor control on snowy or icy roads as the initial power surge or regen braking is enough to break traction on the rear wheels and cause the back end to slide out. People try to mitigate this by switching to Chill mode and setting Regen to Low where possible on older cars but one of the oft-requested features for AWD cars is a Snow Mode for snowy weather that permanently splits power and regen equally between front and rear motors to maintain maximum control of the car. I believe this mode already exists in current firmware (I m on 2021.44.5) though it doesn t have a user-accessible toggle. Yesterday while on a road trip I encountered a section of blowing snow on the highway just before one of the planned supercharger stops. My car had been preconditioning the battery for most of the leg beforehand and I was used to the front motor whine that that produces however after completing the charge and setting off again I continued to hear front motor whine at low speeds without another supercharger stop planned which is atypical except for when [battery heating occurs](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments kq39dy model_3_factfinding_winter_edition_effects_of ). It was presently snowing and the ground at the supercharger site was covered in fresh snow whereas previously the highway had been snow-free. Thanks mostly to winter tires control of the car on the snow was excellent (as expected). I looked at the [Scan My Tesla](https: www.scanmytesla.com ) data I d been capturing during the trip and noticed that the car was now splitting all power regen equally between front and rear motors. As I merged back onto the highway the power continued to be split 50 50 even at cruising speed and while on TACC for about 7 more minutes then it gradually shifted back to rear bias and stayed 100% rear biased afterward. Here s a plot of the cleanest portion starting at the last traffic light before merging back onto the highway and showing the transition from 50 50 back to 100% rear bias: https: i.imgur.com j5dZiZ2.png Looking back prior to reaching the supercharger stop I see a section where my travel speed was reduced by slower moving cars and this corresponded to when I d first entered the area with blowing snow and everyone was slowing down but the switch from rear bias to 50 50 didn t occur until my first full stop at the first light and subsequent acceleration and within 10 seconds afterwards the power was immediately shifted from rear to split bias. The motors were also still being heated to precondition the battery at this point and the [distribution of heating power is speed-dependent](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments kq39dy model_3_factfinding_winter_edition_effects_of gi1n9sq ) so the data on motor power bias is not clean at this point but I can clearly see a trend emerge where the front and rear motor powers mimic each other while under load and regen braking. The transition back to rear bias is a linear ramp that lasts 90 seconds and corresponded neatly to where I d left the area with blowing snow and the roads returned to being clear and lane lines visible again so the triggers are either vision-based or it was initially triggered by some slippage event and started a timer that cleared the mode when no further slippage occurred. The fact that I d parked my car and supercharged for 25 minutes and was still getting a 50 50 split bias immediately afterwards makes me lean toward vision being a component of the car s decision to keep a split bias but the initial trigger was likely a wheel slippage event. Interestingly I d tried recreating the scenario when I got home by accelerating over some hard-packed ice from the last snowfall but while this did cause wheel spin and brief use of the front motor it did not trigger the 50 50 split for any longer than the brief few seconds required to clear the icy section. The main roads in the area were all grated sanded or otherwise clear of snow so the car resumed being 100% rear biased almost immediately. | Heya! Great detailed post. Can confirm! Finnish (we have REAL winters always) Tesla community also noted this after the 44.5 update. Front motor activates much much more easily ( first slip ) and stays on for 2 minutes. Also the regen is much less aggressive at first and starts to ramp up. Much safer to drive in snowy icy roads now especially with RWD only versions. Keep up the good work. -T | Nicely done! | 206 | 5 | 9,217 |
rggnk8 | 794 | Model 3 Fact-Finding – AWD Split Power Bias ( Snow Mode ) Already Exists Typically even in the AWD Model 3 Y the power is 100% biased to the more efficient rear motor unless you request full acceleration or wheel slip is detected in which case it shifts power regen to whichever axle has the most traction. This initial rear bias is claimed to cause poor control on snowy or icy roads as the initial power surge or regen braking is enough to break traction on the rear wheels and cause the back end to slide out. People try to mitigate this by switching to Chill mode and setting Regen to Low where possible on older cars but one of the oft-requested features for AWD cars is a Snow Mode for snowy weather that permanently splits power and regen equally between front and rear motors to maintain maximum control of the car. I believe this mode already exists in current firmware (I m on 2021.44.5) though it doesn t have a user-accessible toggle. Yesterday while on a road trip I encountered a section of blowing snow on the highway just before one of the planned supercharger stops. My car had been preconditioning the battery for most of the leg beforehand and I was used to the front motor whine that that produces however after completing the charge and setting off again I continued to hear front motor whine at low speeds without another supercharger stop planned which is atypical except for when [battery heating occurs](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments kq39dy model_3_factfinding_winter_edition_effects_of ). It was presently snowing and the ground at the supercharger site was covered in fresh snow whereas previously the highway had been snow-free. Thanks mostly to winter tires control of the car on the snow was excellent (as expected). I looked at the [Scan My Tesla](https: www.scanmytesla.com ) data I d been capturing during the trip and noticed that the car was now splitting all power regen equally between front and rear motors. As I merged back onto the highway the power continued to be split 50 50 even at cruising speed and while on TACC for about 7 more minutes then it gradually shifted back to rear bias and stayed 100% rear biased afterward. Here s a plot of the cleanest portion starting at the last traffic light before merging back onto the highway and showing the transition from 50 50 back to 100% rear bias: https: i.imgur.com j5dZiZ2.png Looking back prior to reaching the supercharger stop I see a section where my travel speed was reduced by slower moving cars and this corresponded to when I d first entered the area with blowing snow and everyone was slowing down but the switch from rear bias to 50 50 didn t occur until my first full stop at the first light and subsequent acceleration and within 10 seconds afterwards the power was immediately shifted from rear to split bias. The motors were also still being heated to precondition the battery at this point and the [distribution of heating power is speed-dependent](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments kq39dy model_3_factfinding_winter_edition_effects_of gi1n9sq ) so the data on motor power bias is not clean at this point but I can clearly see a trend emerge where the front and rear motor powers mimic each other while under load and regen braking. The transition back to rear bias is a linear ramp that lasts 90 seconds and corresponded neatly to where I d left the area with blowing snow and the roads returned to being clear and lane lines visible again so the triggers are either vision-based or it was initially triggered by some slippage event and started a timer that cleared the mode when no further slippage occurred. The fact that I d parked my car and supercharged for 25 minutes and was still getting a 50 50 split bias immediately afterwards makes me lean toward vision being a component of the car s decision to keep a split bias but the initial trigger was likely a wheel slippage event. Interestingly I d tried recreating the scenario when I got home by accelerating over some hard-packed ice from the last snowfall but while this did cause wheel spin and brief use of the front motor it did not trigger the 50 50 split for any longer than the brief few seconds required to clear the icy section. The main roads in the area were all grated sanded or otherwise clear of snow so the car resumed being 100% rear biased almost immediately. | This is the type of content I feel like this sub used to have all the time. Amazing quality and interesting posts. I can t thank wugz enough for posts like this. Reposts of elons tweets “dEliVery dAy!” and false rumors that turn into elektrek articles aren t what make this community interesting. Thank you to everyone who supports great content like this. | Thanks for posting good find. Hope to see some more testing and data on this. | 205 | 4 | 9,218 |
rhwosi | 43 | Opinion: Am I being too picky? Recently had my Model Y s windshield replaced by Tesla due to a rock flying up and cracking it. I noticed after detailing my car that the interior glass of the front camera was not cleaned 100% before being put back on. Kind of looks like dirty towel swirl marks in person. It s not noticeable during the day. At night under a lighted area you can see the contrast between the clean windshield and then the dirty glass in the camera module. Have not noticed a significant decrease in FSD driving. Although during the night at traffic lights my car has automatically attempted to clean a “dirty” window a few times even though I detailed and cleaned my car. Tried to capture an image of what it looks like the best I can with my phone. More apparent in real life. Would you bug Tesla to get it fixed? [Images of Windshield](https: imgur.com gallery it8W9TI) Update 12 29 2021: Dropped my Model Y off at the service center and told them about my concerns with the glass in the camera module being dirty. Happy to report back that the Tesla service team promptly cleaned the glass in the camera unit with no issue. They said it was a fairly easy task. Just dropping the camera unit to clean that glass. Looks much better now. [All cleaned](https: imgur.com gallery SZBUglC) | That should 100% be cleaned up. That could certainly affect the triple-camera and Autopilot. The service for that is actually pretty quick should only take about 30 minutes or so. | Fix that and then good luck getting the suction cup marks off. I used glass stripper and it didn t help. Took months of attempts | 31 | 5 | 9,219 |
rhxner | 349 | Appreciation post for the Tesla Mobile Service Team **Can we all just take a minute to acknowledge how awesome it is that Tesla offers mobile service?** My Model 3 s Upper Control Arms cabin camera and charge port door were replaced today – all free of charge (warranty) and from my driveway. What would otherwise be a 3-hour round-trip drive to my nearest service center and a lost day of work productivity was instead done from home. I know Tesla gets a bad rap for their service sometimes – and the fixes my car needed were very minor – but my experience today prompted me to reflect on how truly awesome this is. I m sure some other car companies offer mobile service but it s still not very common...just another reason to love Tesla! | MY owner. I also had just three interactions with Tesla service which were very positive. I find they are very dedicated and helpful. | Wow Congrats! Must be nice. What state do you live in? I recently had a simple flat tire in PA where I work (live in NJ). Tesla mobile service was not able to do anything for me. Save to tow my car home for which I had to pay extra (over 50 miles). They would have towed me to a local tire shop but none had the 19 tire size in stock. And none had same day appointments anyway when I discovered the flat mid afternoon. It took more than 2 hours for the tow truck to come. And then I had to order replacement tires from TireRack and have them installed myself. Now I carry my own spare & tools since I cannot rely on the roadside assistance that comes with this car -- at least in the area where I live and work. | 45 | 3 | 9,220 |
rhxner | 349 | Appreciation post for the Tesla Mobile Service Team **Can we all just take a minute to acknowledge how awesome it is that Tesla offers mobile service?** My Model 3 s Upper Control Arms cabin camera and charge port door were replaced today – all free of charge (warranty) and from my driveway. What would otherwise be a 3-hour round-trip drive to my nearest service center and a lost day of work productivity was instead done from home. I know Tesla gets a bad rap for their service sometimes – and the fixes my car needed were very minor – but my experience today prompted me to reflect on how truly awesome this is. I m sure some other car companies offer mobile service but it s still not very common...just another reason to love Tesla! | MY owner. I also had just three interactions with Tesla service which were very positive. I find they are very dedicated and helpful. | Yea honestly was pretty shocked and how well that went never experienced such service had my right side camera replaced. Tech was amazing and came into my work to let me know it s tested and done. Had to go into SC had to have window adjusted wind and water from car wash was another good experience just wish it could have been done at work. | 45 | 11 | 9,221 |
rhzwvc | 87 | ANC on refreshed S. I got 2021.44.5 last night on my Plaid. Active Noise Cancellation Reduction was one of the features I was excited about. Tried it today and it was really hard to notice a difference at all. It says calibrating and then optimizes for either the front passengers or all passengers if there are occupants in the rear seats. Again I m not sure what I was expecting but for me I didn t notice anything. I think I was expecting something along the lines of what a ANC headset does. Anyone else have a different experience? Update: I tried the feature again. I don t notice any difference at all. Decibel meter also didn t show any difference. 63DB @ 70MPH. Off or on. I still like the car and I think it s sufficiently quiet. You can always hope for better though. I ve never seen this feature work well on any other vehicle either. | One of the advantages of being on the experienced side of the age curve is we can just turn our hearing aides off. | Turn it on and off to see the difference ? lol sorry if my suggestion sounds stupid | 77 | 3 | 9,222 |
rhzwvc | 87 | ANC on refreshed S. I got 2021.44.5 last night on my Plaid. Active Noise Cancellation Reduction was one of the features I was excited about. Tried it today and it was really hard to notice a difference at all. It says calibrating and then optimizes for either the front passengers or all passengers if there are occupants in the rear seats. Again I m not sure what I was expecting but for me I didn t notice anything. I think I was expecting something along the lines of what a ANC headset does. Anyone else have a different experience? Update: I tried the feature again. I don t notice any difference at all. Decibel meter also didn t show any difference. 63DB @ 70MPH. Off or on. I still like the car and I think it s sufficiently quiet. You can always hope for better though. I ve never seen this feature work well on any other vehicle either. | One of the advantages of being on the experienced side of the age curve is we can just turn our hearing aides off. | It s not labeled as ANC but as a Noise Reduction. You might notice less tire noise but I m not sure how much it does beyond that. Edit: Don t agree at all with Tesla re-labeling and disappointed to hear that it s rather unnoticeable. | 77 | 17 | 9,223 |
rhzwvc | 87 | ANC on refreshed S. I got 2021.44.5 last night on my Plaid. Active Noise Cancellation Reduction was one of the features I was excited about. Tried it today and it was really hard to notice a difference at all. It says calibrating and then optimizes for either the front passengers or all passengers if there are occupants in the rear seats. Again I m not sure what I was expecting but for me I didn t notice anything. I think I was expecting something along the lines of what a ANC headset does. Anyone else have a different experience? Update: I tried the feature again. I don t notice any difference at all. Decibel meter also didn t show any difference. 63DB @ 70MPH. Off or on. I still like the car and I think it s sufficiently quiet. You can always hope for better though. I ve never seen this feature work well on any other vehicle either. | Try this! Once it s enabled and done calibrating drive 50 MPH or more and put your head back against the headrest and then slowly move your head down towards the yoke. You ll instantly hear all the tire noise and low frequencies the ANC was cancelling. Make sure all audio is off. | Turn it on and off to see the difference ? lol sorry if my suggestion sounds stupid | 60 | 3 | 9,224 |
ri4weo | 395 | Shock & Disbelief after Service – See Images Hey Tesla fans! I had a pretty upsetting service appointment today – here s [the aftermath](https: imgur.com a 00VlKBQ). I brought my car in for the following issues all of which remain unresolved. * **Wind Noise** *Excessive wind and road noise coming from the driver side back and front windows. More pronounced in the back. Sounds like window is cracked open.* * **Suspension Noise** *Clunking and rattling in the front suspension when traveling over bumps or uneven terrain. More pronounced on the driver side. Progressively worsening.* * **Door Hinge** *Passenger side front door hinge clicking similar to what happened with the driver door at the last service appointment. I had asked for lubrication but they told me they replaced the whole hinge.* * **Windshield Wipers** *Driver side wiper not spraying fluid over the bottom half. Consequently does not clean that most important portion of the windshield. Please also install new wipers – I am aware this is out-of-warranty.* Simple enough or so I thought. After driving around for a few minutes with the service tech (who confirmed all of my stated issues) I expected a new or repositioned door seal lubricated suspension a new or lubricated door hinge and functional wipers with new blades. They had my car for four hours and returned it to me unfixed taken apart and broken. The part that irks me the most is that they did NOT change my wiper blades after I PAID them $35. I asked the technician at the and to confirm to which he responded yeah brand new. If you look at my photos you ll see a picture of my wiper with some wax I accidentally rubbed on it four months ago so there s no way these are new. EDIT: Clarkston MI EDIT: [Invoice](https: imgur.com a U4iIfAI) | When Tesla was gonna charge me $1k for 2 new tires and an alignment after 4k miles I ended up finding the service manager on LinkedIn and emailing him and my sales person about my disappointment with how their service was an within an hour I had a call that it was being taken care of. Keep calling and emailing them email anyone who might help refuse to pick up the car until they fix it squeaky wheel gets the grease. | Not defending Tesla but shit like this happens in every dealership repair center as well. My mom s Honda was constantly having issues and they were frequently lying to the elderly about repairs that were never needed. This isn t exclusive to Tesla but 1000% you will lose customers who trusted your early EV products by doing what they did to you. | 62 | 4 | 9,225 |
ri4weo | 395 | Shock & Disbelief after Service – See Images Hey Tesla fans! I had a pretty upsetting service appointment today – here s [the aftermath](https: imgur.com a 00VlKBQ). I brought my car in for the following issues all of which remain unresolved. * **Wind Noise** *Excessive wind and road noise coming from the driver side back and front windows. More pronounced in the back. Sounds like window is cracked open.* * **Suspension Noise** *Clunking and rattling in the front suspension when traveling over bumps or uneven terrain. More pronounced on the driver side. Progressively worsening.* * **Door Hinge** *Passenger side front door hinge clicking similar to what happened with the driver door at the last service appointment. I had asked for lubrication but they told me they replaced the whole hinge.* * **Windshield Wipers** *Driver side wiper not spraying fluid over the bottom half. Consequently does not clean that most important portion of the windshield. Please also install new wipers – I am aware this is out-of-warranty.* Simple enough or so I thought. After driving around for a few minutes with the service tech (who confirmed all of my stated issues) I expected a new or repositioned door seal lubricated suspension a new or lubricated door hinge and functional wipers with new blades. They had my car for four hours and returned it to me unfixed taken apart and broken. The part that irks me the most is that they did NOT change my wiper blades after I PAID them $35. I asked the technician at the and to confirm to which he responded yeah brand new. If you look at my photos you ll see a picture of my wiper with some wax I accidentally rubbed on it four months ago so there s no way these are new. EDIT: Clarkston MI EDIT: [Invoice](https: imgur.com a U4iIfAI) | This Tesla sub is what has convinced me to not buy a Tesla. | I believe this I ve had similar experience with service center. They neglected to fix issues and hope I wouldn t notice them when I pick up the car. | 59 | 2 | 9,226 |
ri4weo | 395 | Shock & Disbelief after Service – See Images Hey Tesla fans! I had a pretty upsetting service appointment today – here s [the aftermath](https: imgur.com a 00VlKBQ). I brought my car in for the following issues all of which remain unresolved. * **Wind Noise** *Excessive wind and road noise coming from the driver side back and front windows. More pronounced in the back. Sounds like window is cracked open.* * **Suspension Noise** *Clunking and rattling in the front suspension when traveling over bumps or uneven terrain. More pronounced on the driver side. Progressively worsening.* * **Door Hinge** *Passenger side front door hinge clicking similar to what happened with the driver door at the last service appointment. I had asked for lubrication but they told me they replaced the whole hinge.* * **Windshield Wipers** *Driver side wiper not spraying fluid over the bottom half. Consequently does not clean that most important portion of the windshield. Please also install new wipers – I am aware this is out-of-warranty.* Simple enough or so I thought. After driving around for a few minutes with the service tech (who confirmed all of my stated issues) I expected a new or repositioned door seal lubricated suspension a new or lubricated door hinge and functional wipers with new blades. They had my car for four hours and returned it to me unfixed taken apart and broken. The part that irks me the most is that they did NOT change my wiper blades after I PAID them $35. I asked the technician at the and to confirm to which he responded yeah brand new. If you look at my photos you ll see a picture of my wiper with some wax I accidentally rubbed on it four months ago so there s no way these are new. EDIT: Clarkston MI EDIT: [Invoice](https: imgur.com a U4iIfAI) | This Tesla sub is what has convinced me to not buy a Tesla. | Same thing happened to me except they had my car for 5 days. | 59 | 2 | 9,227 |
riasyu | 49 | How much electricity does a Tesla charger draw when not charging? I manage a condo building and we have a situation of unauthorized use of a charger and a dispute over the charges. I was wondering if someone could tell me what it might draw over the course of a year if it wasn t used? I know that there is a light on the charger so it has to use something. I d imagine that you could easily overlook the extra draw if you were charging your car but the current owners don t own an EV. Thanks in advance! | I just plugged my mobile connector into a wifi watt meter and it s reading 2 watts or 0.002 kw. So 0.002 kw times 24 hours times 365 days is 17.52 kWh a year. At my local rates ($0.13 kWh) that would be $2.28 a year. | Assuming the LED is probably less than 1 watt that s about 0.02kWh per day so less than a rounding error on your bill. | 227 | 9 | 9,228 |
riasyu | 49 | How much electricity does a Tesla charger draw when not charging? I manage a condo building and we have a situation of unauthorized use of a charger and a dispute over the charges. I was wondering if someone could tell me what it might draw over the course of a year if it wasn t used? I know that there is a light on the charger so it has to use something. I d imagine that you could easily overlook the extra draw if you were charging your car but the current owners don t own an EV. Thanks in advance! | I just plugged my mobile connector into a wifi watt meter and it s reading 2 watts or 0.002 kw. So 0.002 kw times 24 hours times 365 days is 17.52 kWh a year. At my local rates ($0.13 kWh) that would be $2.28 a year. | Mine draws around 3.6-3.8W when idle. Tesla wall connector V2. | 227 | 37 | 9,229 |
riasyu | 49 | How much electricity does a Tesla charger draw when not charging? I manage a condo building and we have a situation of unauthorized use of a charger and a dispute over the charges. I was wondering if someone could tell me what it might draw over the course of a year if it wasn t used? I know that there is a light on the charger so it has to use something. I d imagine that you could easily overlook the extra draw if you were charging your car but the current owners don t own an EV. Thanks in advance! | Mine draws around 3.6-3.8W when idle. Tesla wall connector V2. | Assuming the LED is probably less than 1 watt that s about 0.02kWh per day so less than a rounding error on your bill. | 37 | 9 | 9,230 |
rk1u6h | 367 | How do Teslas fare in the extreme cold? Just got a new job im very excited about but it comes with a caveat- i have to move to alaska. I was wondering if anyone on the subreddit already has a tesla up there and can make some suggestions over steps i might want to take to preserve battery life or otherwise protect my car! | My in laws live in anchorage and I ve been more times than I care to during winter. Your range will be reduced in the winter with that said the car should be fine as far as driving goes. The roads are well taken care of in anchorage in the winter time. I would recommend installing a charger inside of the garage. Many garages there are heated hopefully yours will be also. There are not a lot of public charging options in anchorage however many ICE vehicles require block heaters during the snowy months which means many jobs and grocery stores will have outdoor electrical outlets to plug in to. There are a few Teslas in anchorage not many but a few there is a new super charger that just opened in Soldatna south of anchorage with plans for more. Remember Alaska is a big oil state so the economy depends on that resource but it s not impossible to have a Tesla there. There is no repair center in Alaska so servicing may be more dependent on traveling repair folks from Canada Seattle I think. Good luck! | The biggest issue is that my car would barely charge before the battery had a chance to warm up. As long as you can get it charged or even keep it plugged in before letting it sit for the night you should not have any major issues. | 603 | 2 | 9,231 |
rk1u6h | 367 | How do Teslas fare in the extreme cold? Just got a new job im very excited about but it comes with a caveat- i have to move to alaska. I was wondering if anyone on the subreddit already has a tesla up there and can make some suggestions over steps i might want to take to preserve battery life or otherwise protect my car! | My in laws live in anchorage and I ve been more times than I care to during winter. Your range will be reduced in the winter with that said the car should be fine as far as driving goes. The roads are well taken care of in anchorage in the winter time. I would recommend installing a charger inside of the garage. Many garages there are heated hopefully yours will be also. There are not a lot of public charging options in anchorage however many ICE vehicles require block heaters during the snowy months which means many jobs and grocery stores will have outdoor electrical outlets to plug in to. There are a few Teslas in anchorage not many but a few there is a new super charger that just opened in Soldatna south of anchorage with plans for more. Remember Alaska is a big oil state so the economy depends on that resource but it s not impossible to have a Tesla there. There is no repair center in Alaska so servicing may be more dependent on traveling repair folks from Canada Seattle I think. Good luck! | A big part will depend on the parking and charging locations. Garage or outdoors? Charging at home and work? | 603 | 3 | 9,232 |
rk1u6h | 367 | How do Teslas fare in the extreme cold? Just got a new job im very excited about but it comes with a caveat- i have to move to alaska. I was wondering if anyone on the subreddit already has a tesla up there and can make some suggestions over steps i might want to take to preserve battery life or otherwise protect my car! | My in laws live in anchorage and I ve been more times than I care to during winter. Your range will be reduced in the winter with that said the car should be fine as far as driving goes. The roads are well taken care of in anchorage in the winter time. I would recommend installing a charger inside of the garage. Many garages there are heated hopefully yours will be also. There are not a lot of public charging options in anchorage however many ICE vehicles require block heaters during the snowy months which means many jobs and grocery stores will have outdoor electrical outlets to plug in to. There are a few Teslas in anchorage not many but a few there is a new super charger that just opened in Soldatna south of anchorage with plans for more. Remember Alaska is a big oil state so the economy depends on that resource but it s not impossible to have a Tesla there. There is no repair center in Alaska so servicing may be more dependent on traveling repair folks from Canada Seattle I think. Good luck! | The cold will definitely reduce your range. I m in Ontario Canada so definitely not Alaska-cold but we have some pretty cold days. I find my range drops about 30% in the winter - yours would be worse but I can t give you a good estimate. So long as you aren t driving right to the limits of your car s range and have charging options available it shouldn t be a problem. Road trips might be a struggle but apps like PlugShare will help a lot to find charging options. | 603 | 9 | 9,233 |
rks4hg | 982 | PSA for anyone with a Model 3 on hold. I hit ready for delivery this morning and immediately got assigned a Vin with a delivery window of Dec 24-30. Take that as you will happy holidays! Blue Model 3 Long Range for delivery in the Chicago area. Ordered in October and put it on hold when I was assigned a VIN the first week of December. | Nice. With BBB not passing and no hope for credits might as well take delivery asap. | What was your OD? | 218 | 3 | 9,234 |
rks4hg | 982 | PSA for anyone with a Model 3 on hold. I hit ready for delivery this morning and immediately got assigned a Vin with a delivery window of Dec 24-30. Take that as you will happy holidays! Blue Model 3 Long Range for delivery in the Chicago area. Ordered in October and put it on hold when I was assigned a VIN the first week of December. | Nice. With BBB not passing and no hope for credits might as well take delivery asap. | They have long range in inventory currently | 218 | 3 | 9,235 |
rks4hg | 982 | PSA for anyone with a Model 3 on hold. I hit ready for delivery this morning and immediately got assigned a Vin with a delivery window of Dec 24-30. Take that as you will happy holidays! Blue Model 3 Long Range for delivery in the Chicago area. Ordered in October and put it on hold when I was assigned a VIN the first week of December. | Nice. With BBB not passing and no hope for credits might as well take delivery asap. | I ordered M3LR on 12 10 and got VIN assigned this morning. I m gonna see about delaying till 1 1. I live a few miles from Fremont. | 218 | 6 | 9,236 |
rkuxkc | 200 | Aged battery disclaimer in existing inventory page I think this is new as it s the first time I ve seen it and I ve scoured the existing inventory between my wife and I s orders since June. It looks like some Models have a disclaimer that even though it s a new (2021) car the battery packs included in them are as old as 2017 and you can experience reduced range of up to 12% from the get go. I would expect there to be some sort of discount on top of the cars being demos as well. https: imgur.com a Wd0eZyY | I talked with Tesla about this today the sales advisor told me they are just making customers aware that battery degradation may have occurred during the year the car was used as a demo unit. Battery is still fully warrantied as a new non demo car would be and is a battery pack from the year the car was made. It is a blanket statement to cover older demo cars being sold as well which is why it states the date back to 2017 | Why did you chose to include the Model and Year of the next car but cropped out the current one selected? What year is that car? | 92 | 2 | 9,237 |
rkuxkc | 200 | Aged battery disclaimer in existing inventory page I think this is new as it s the first time I ve seen it and I ve scoured the existing inventory between my wife and I s orders since June. It looks like some Models have a disclaimer that even though it s a new (2021) car the battery packs included in them are as old as 2017 and you can experience reduced range of up to 12% from the get go. I would expect there to be some sort of discount on top of the cars being demos as well. https: imgur.com a Wd0eZyY | I talked with Tesla about this today the sales advisor told me they are just making customers aware that battery degradation may have occurred during the year the car was used as a demo unit. Battery is still fully warrantied as a new non demo car would be and is a battery pack from the year the car was made. It is a blanket statement to cover older demo cars being sold as well which is why it states the date back to 2017 | Buyers of a new car should be entitled to a product consisting of totally new components. What more needs to be said. | 92 | 3 | 9,238 |
rkuxkc | 200 | Aged battery disclaimer in existing inventory page I think this is new as it s the first time I ve seen it and I ve scoured the existing inventory between my wife and I s orders since June. It looks like some Models have a disclaimer that even though it s a new (2021) car the battery packs included in them are as old as 2017 and you can experience reduced range of up to 12% from the get go. I would expect there to be some sort of discount on top of the cars being demos as well. https: imgur.com a Wd0eZyY | I talked with Tesla about this today the sales advisor told me they are just making customers aware that battery degradation may have occurred during the year the car was used as a demo unit. Battery is still fully warrantied as a new non demo car would be and is a battery pack from the year the car was made. It is a blanket statement to cover older demo cars being sold as well which is why it states the date back to 2017 | TESLA DID NOT SWAP THE BATTERY I think people here are mixing up the statement into thinking they re recycling old battery packs into newer vehicles. There is no statement here that indicates that. This is not a new car it s a demo car. Sure you can argue it being newish but no one would call this or any vehicle with over 500 miles as new and Tesla is grouping it with all the used cars in terms of the disclaimer but it s a 2021 battery pack. Period. The statement is broadly including all batteries built for the model 3 which go back as far as 2017. So the statement is just applied to all used Model 3s and in no way indicates a battery swap. | 92 | 4 | 9,239 |
rlhj90 | 615 | Model 3 Fact-Finding – Testing the Traction Control and Regen Responsiveness in Snow Ice With the [recent confirmation](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model_3_factfinding_awd_split_power_bias_snow ) of a split power mode (the oft-requested Snow Mode ) I set out to benchmark the traction control performance and regeneration curve of my car under slippery conditions. Where I live has recently experienced a freezing rain followed by 10+ cm of snowfall and a cold snap in the -20°C range leading to some of the most slippery driving conditions imaginable short of driving on actual ice. I tested my car last night at -13°C ambient on a particular side road that hasn t seen much sanding or grading leading to a mostly hard-packed snow surface with occasional bare ice exposed. Even though I have nice Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 winter tires on my car accelerating at full power under these conditions is definitely a handful requiring adept corrective steering just to remain pointing straight. As a baseline measurement [here s a plot](https: i.imgur.com IOdoCno.png) of my 2018 Model 3 AWD w [Acceleration Boost](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments eczol8 model_3_awd_acceleration_boost_tested_from_0160 ) under ideal dry roads & warm battery conditions. All my data is captured from the car s CAN bus using [Scan My Tesla](https: www.scanmytesla.com ) and is generally sampled at 100 Hz and accurate to 0.01 seconds or better except for wheel RPM counters which update at approximately 10 Hz (every 0.1 seconds). My car will reach 60 km h 2.52 seconds after the accelerator is first pressed 60 mph after 4.09 seconds and 100 km h after 4.27 seconds. Owing to the car s speedometer being tied to some combination of the smoothed data from the position sensors within the motors there s about a 0.28 second delay between the first recorded change in accelerator pedal position and the first recorded increase in speed. This delay would be somewhat akin to true reaction time and would not normally be measurable or incorporated in a drag strip time or dragy run. Testing my car in the standard Sport setting and Normal regen [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com zKYk3yJ.png). Under the slippery road conditions 60 km h was achieved in 6.80 seconds and 100 km h was not safely possible. I allowed my car to reach a peak of about 77 km h as indicated on the speedometer then completely let off the accelerator pedal and let the car use only regen braking to come to a stop. Aside from an occasional patch of ice and the car preferring to split the braking power across both axles as opposed to the usual 100% rear braking on dry roads the regen power profile matched that of a dry road run and peaked at the usual 0.2 G of deceleration even under these poor conditions. Control was not an issue and the RPMs on both axles reduced linearly with speed indicating no lockups occurred. [Here s a zoomed-in portion](https: i.imgur.com lmNNAGM.png) of the launch showing an initial burst in power to the front motor followed by both motors receiving approximately equal power as speeds on both axles ramped up equally. You can also see a repeated fluctuation of front motor power with peaks and troughs spaced approximately 0.1 seconds apart as the car struggles to output peak power to the axle. At the 1 second mark the wheels are only rotating at ~80 RPM meaning these adjustments are occurring as frequently as *7-8 times per wheel rotation*. [Here s a zoomed-in portion](https: i.imgur.com nESzoF9.png) of the transition from power to regen. The car throttled motor powers down to zero within 0.31 seconds of full pedal release and kept motor power negligible for 0.10 seconds afterward. During this time the indicated speed and RPMs of both axles dropped abruptly as the car s wheels were no longer spinning faster than the actual travel speed and recoupled with the road surface below them. After this regen braking kicked up initially on the front axle at a low rate of about -12 kW to allow the car a gentle transition to shifting its weight to the front wheels then about 0.4 seconds later began regen braking with the rear axle as well at a peak of about -30 kW while maintaining front axle braking at about -15 kW. After 1.5 seconds the car split the regen braking strength equally between both axles at a combined maximum braking of -55 kW which was also the regen limit of my battery at the time. Below 26 km h the car transitioned back to primarily rear axle regen braking until coming to a stop. One other noteworthy section of the graph occurs [around the 14 second mark](https: i.imgur.com QcoITX3.png) when the regen power on the front motor is first observed to drop for about 0.15 seconds followed by a similar drop 0.28 seconds later on the rear axle. At the car s approximate speed of 36 km h at the time the 0.28 second delay equates to [a travel distance of 110 inches](https: www.google.com search?q=0.28+seconds+*++36+km%2Fhr+in+inches) which almost exactly matches my car s [113 inch wheelbase](https: www.caranddriver.com tesla model-3 specs). This means the traction control reacted to a single patch of ice that first traversed the front wheels by slowing regen braking and then resuming full regen on that axle *before doing it again when the same patch of ice had reached the back tires* - very impressive responsiveness! Testing again on the same stretch of road using [Slip Start](https: www.tesla.com ownersmanual model3 en_us GUID-CC0F27E7-FD78-448D-B739-209EBBEDF2C3.html) mode [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com oIqHQtb.png). With Slip Start enabled the car was happy to ramp up the rear axle s RPM much higher than the front initially but this provided no additional acceleration with the car reaching 60 km h in 8.32 seconds (1.5 seconds longer than without it). The rear axle s RPM and motor power remained as much as 2-3x higher than the front axle until about 48 km h and then equalized. [The transition to regen](https: i.imgur.com NqdCRmk.png) is very similar to the last plot albeit with a less abrupt decrease in indicated speed and front RPMs leading me to believe the car s speed measurement is tied to the slower axle sensor (in this case the front axle rather than the rear). The transition back to primarily rear braking again occurred below 26 km h. Testing again using the oft-recommended combo of Chill mode and Low regen [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com o1lEqgM.png). Doing a full launch in Chill mode was definitely still squirrelly on the conditions I was testing under and required quick reactive steering to remain pointing straight. As I ve measured previously in my comprehensive [efficiency analysis](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments iws58g model_3_factfinding_an_endtoend_efficiency ) the [power curve in Chill mode](https: i.imgur.com Bjd5ZXN.png) typically nerfs launch power by approximately half and caps output at 160 kW across all trims with a similarly observed [50% decrease in regen strength](https: i.imgur.com EhzJrIQ.png) on Low regen. Owing to the already-slippery conditions the car basically performed not much slower in Chill mode than in Sport mode first reaching 60 km h after 8.50 seconds before cutting power and indicated speed from hitting an icy patch then again showing 60 km h reached at 9.15 seconds. Comparatively the [throttle down to zero power](https: i.imgur.com aHVpYPV.png) took longer owing to the slower pedal responsiveness of Chill mode requiring about 0.5 seconds vs. Sport s 0.3 seconds but only another 0.5 seconds was required to reach the lower maximum regen strength of Low mode as opposed to the > 1 seconds of the stronger Normal mode. Owing to the different regen strengths and deceleration forces the resulting [jerk](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Jerk_\\(physics\\)) is still about the same even under these far from ideal conditions which is apparently one of [Tesla s designing principles](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 1457083243933601802) for autopilot. Motor power was mostly equally split throughout both acceleration and deceleration and the transition back to primarily rear braking again occurred below 26 km h. The deceleration power was cut approximately in half compared to Normal regen (as expected) and there were no issues controlling the stop albeit at the expense of 60-0 km h now taking over 15 seconds vs. the previous 8 seconds. My recommendations for those worried about winter driving is first and foremost to invest in a set of good winter tires (and optionally second set of rims that you can swap yourself). An AWD car will also be superior in that it can apply equal regen braking on both axles as opposed to only one axle or engaging the physical brakes. The responsiveness of regen braking as a means of slowing down on slippery roads is unmatched compared to even ABS in my opinion while the physical brakes should only be used in emergency braking scenarios. Cars that still have Low regen as a setting offer no discernable advantage over Normal regen unless you prefer to brake like a granny and slow down half a mile before each light in which case you can also feather the pedal accordingly for roughly the same result. Assuming you like to do full power launches on treacherous icy roads setting your car to Chill mode does decrease your acceleration profile somewhat compared to the standard sport setting but the Venn diagram of the two groups surely mustn t touch. If you prefer the nerfed pedal mapping and smoothed out pedal response of Chill mode when things get icy that s still a reasonable approach but the old trope of Sport acceleration on AWD cars kicking out the back wheels before the car has a chance to adjust seems to no longer be the case with the recent [Cold Weather Improvements](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model_3_factfinding_awd_split_power_bias_snow ). | Regen braking is unreliable in colder weather. The biggest I have with Tesla s regen braking is that the state of the pack can affect how the car drives. I take my foot off the accelerator it should slow down every single time. Take today 39F and raining. Regen usage is near random. Sometimes I lift off the pedal and nothing happens. There are at most five dots on the far left of the bar which should mean I have loads of available regen on a pack below 80%. Here is what it should do and what it already does when it is piloting the car. Regen mode should offer the same amount of deceleration regardless of pack state and accomplish this by blending in the physical brakes. It should be wholly transparent to the user. Seriously today was just spooky. Got a the 44.6 update replaced two tires and rotated them at the same time and on my drive home regen was not there. take my foot off the pedal it felt like it was still accelerating even with no black bar indicating power applied. I even took out the floor mat thinking the tire shop wedged in wrong or such. Real fun slowing with brakes because it feels wholly different and then suddenly below 10mph it adds in regen out of the blue. | Upvoted now onto reading it. Thanks for your work! | 69 | 3 | 9,240 |
rlhj90 | 615 | Model 3 Fact-Finding – Testing the Traction Control and Regen Responsiveness in Snow Ice With the [recent confirmation](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model_3_factfinding_awd_split_power_bias_snow ) of a split power mode (the oft-requested Snow Mode ) I set out to benchmark the traction control performance and regeneration curve of my car under slippery conditions. Where I live has recently experienced a freezing rain followed by 10+ cm of snowfall and a cold snap in the -20°C range leading to some of the most slippery driving conditions imaginable short of driving on actual ice. I tested my car last night at -13°C ambient on a particular side road that hasn t seen much sanding or grading leading to a mostly hard-packed snow surface with occasional bare ice exposed. Even though I have nice Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 winter tires on my car accelerating at full power under these conditions is definitely a handful requiring adept corrective steering just to remain pointing straight. As a baseline measurement [here s a plot](https: i.imgur.com IOdoCno.png) of my 2018 Model 3 AWD w [Acceleration Boost](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments eczol8 model_3_awd_acceleration_boost_tested_from_0160 ) under ideal dry roads & warm battery conditions. All my data is captured from the car s CAN bus using [Scan My Tesla](https: www.scanmytesla.com ) and is generally sampled at 100 Hz and accurate to 0.01 seconds or better except for wheel RPM counters which update at approximately 10 Hz (every 0.1 seconds). My car will reach 60 km h 2.52 seconds after the accelerator is first pressed 60 mph after 4.09 seconds and 100 km h after 4.27 seconds. Owing to the car s speedometer being tied to some combination of the smoothed data from the position sensors within the motors there s about a 0.28 second delay between the first recorded change in accelerator pedal position and the first recorded increase in speed. This delay would be somewhat akin to true reaction time and would not normally be measurable or incorporated in a drag strip time or dragy run. Testing my car in the standard Sport setting and Normal regen [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com zKYk3yJ.png). Under the slippery road conditions 60 km h was achieved in 6.80 seconds and 100 km h was not safely possible. I allowed my car to reach a peak of about 77 km h as indicated on the speedometer then completely let off the accelerator pedal and let the car use only regen braking to come to a stop. Aside from an occasional patch of ice and the car preferring to split the braking power across both axles as opposed to the usual 100% rear braking on dry roads the regen power profile matched that of a dry road run and peaked at the usual 0.2 G of deceleration even under these poor conditions. Control was not an issue and the RPMs on both axles reduced linearly with speed indicating no lockups occurred. [Here s a zoomed-in portion](https: i.imgur.com lmNNAGM.png) of the launch showing an initial burst in power to the front motor followed by both motors receiving approximately equal power as speeds on both axles ramped up equally. You can also see a repeated fluctuation of front motor power with peaks and troughs spaced approximately 0.1 seconds apart as the car struggles to output peak power to the axle. At the 1 second mark the wheels are only rotating at ~80 RPM meaning these adjustments are occurring as frequently as *7-8 times per wheel rotation*. [Here s a zoomed-in portion](https: i.imgur.com nESzoF9.png) of the transition from power to regen. The car throttled motor powers down to zero within 0.31 seconds of full pedal release and kept motor power negligible for 0.10 seconds afterward. During this time the indicated speed and RPMs of both axles dropped abruptly as the car s wheels were no longer spinning faster than the actual travel speed and recoupled with the road surface below them. After this regen braking kicked up initially on the front axle at a low rate of about -12 kW to allow the car a gentle transition to shifting its weight to the front wheels then about 0.4 seconds later began regen braking with the rear axle as well at a peak of about -30 kW while maintaining front axle braking at about -15 kW. After 1.5 seconds the car split the regen braking strength equally between both axles at a combined maximum braking of -55 kW which was also the regen limit of my battery at the time. Below 26 km h the car transitioned back to primarily rear axle regen braking until coming to a stop. One other noteworthy section of the graph occurs [around the 14 second mark](https: i.imgur.com QcoITX3.png) when the regen power on the front motor is first observed to drop for about 0.15 seconds followed by a similar drop 0.28 seconds later on the rear axle. At the car s approximate speed of 36 km h at the time the 0.28 second delay equates to [a travel distance of 110 inches](https: www.google.com search?q=0.28+seconds+*++36+km%2Fhr+in+inches) which almost exactly matches my car s [113 inch wheelbase](https: www.caranddriver.com tesla model-3 specs). This means the traction control reacted to a single patch of ice that first traversed the front wheels by slowing regen braking and then resuming full regen on that axle *before doing it again when the same patch of ice had reached the back tires* - very impressive responsiveness! Testing again on the same stretch of road using [Slip Start](https: www.tesla.com ownersmanual model3 en_us GUID-CC0F27E7-FD78-448D-B739-209EBBEDF2C3.html) mode [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com oIqHQtb.png). With Slip Start enabled the car was happy to ramp up the rear axle s RPM much higher than the front initially but this provided no additional acceleration with the car reaching 60 km h in 8.32 seconds (1.5 seconds longer than without it). The rear axle s RPM and motor power remained as much as 2-3x higher than the front axle until about 48 km h and then equalized. [The transition to regen](https: i.imgur.com NqdCRmk.png) is very similar to the last plot albeit with a less abrupt decrease in indicated speed and front RPMs leading me to believe the car s speed measurement is tied to the slower axle sensor (in this case the front axle rather than the rear). The transition back to primarily rear braking again occurred below 26 km h. Testing again using the oft-recommended combo of Chill mode and Low regen [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com o1lEqgM.png). Doing a full launch in Chill mode was definitely still squirrelly on the conditions I was testing under and required quick reactive steering to remain pointing straight. As I ve measured previously in my comprehensive [efficiency analysis](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments iws58g model_3_factfinding_an_endtoend_efficiency ) the [power curve in Chill mode](https: i.imgur.com Bjd5ZXN.png) typically nerfs launch power by approximately half and caps output at 160 kW across all trims with a similarly observed [50% decrease in regen strength](https: i.imgur.com EhzJrIQ.png) on Low regen. Owing to the already-slippery conditions the car basically performed not much slower in Chill mode than in Sport mode first reaching 60 km h after 8.50 seconds before cutting power and indicated speed from hitting an icy patch then again showing 60 km h reached at 9.15 seconds. Comparatively the [throttle down to zero power](https: i.imgur.com aHVpYPV.png) took longer owing to the slower pedal responsiveness of Chill mode requiring about 0.5 seconds vs. Sport s 0.3 seconds but only another 0.5 seconds was required to reach the lower maximum regen strength of Low mode as opposed to the > 1 seconds of the stronger Normal mode. Owing to the different regen strengths and deceleration forces the resulting [jerk](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Jerk_\\(physics\\)) is still about the same even under these far from ideal conditions which is apparently one of [Tesla s designing principles](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 1457083243933601802) for autopilot. Motor power was mostly equally split throughout both acceleration and deceleration and the transition back to primarily rear braking again occurred below 26 km h. The deceleration power was cut approximately in half compared to Normal regen (as expected) and there were no issues controlling the stop albeit at the expense of 60-0 km h now taking over 15 seconds vs. the previous 8 seconds. My recommendations for those worried about winter driving is first and foremost to invest in a set of good winter tires (and optionally second set of rims that you can swap yourself). An AWD car will also be superior in that it can apply equal regen braking on both axles as opposed to only one axle or engaging the physical brakes. The responsiveness of regen braking as a means of slowing down on slippery roads is unmatched compared to even ABS in my opinion while the physical brakes should only be used in emergency braking scenarios. Cars that still have Low regen as a setting offer no discernable advantage over Normal regen unless you prefer to brake like a granny and slow down half a mile before each light in which case you can also feather the pedal accordingly for roughly the same result. Assuming you like to do full power launches on treacherous icy roads setting your car to Chill mode does decrease your acceleration profile somewhat compared to the standard sport setting but the Venn diagram of the two groups surely mustn t touch. If you prefer the nerfed pedal mapping and smoothed out pedal response of Chill mode when things get icy that s still a reasonable approach but the old trope of Sport acceleration on AWD cars kicking out the back wheels before the car has a chance to adjust seems to no longer be the case with the recent [Cold Weather Improvements](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model_3_factfinding_awd_split_power_bias_snow ). | Regen braking is unreliable in colder weather. The biggest I have with Tesla s regen braking is that the state of the pack can affect how the car drives. I take my foot off the accelerator it should slow down every single time. Take today 39F and raining. Regen usage is near random. Sometimes I lift off the pedal and nothing happens. There are at most five dots on the far left of the bar which should mean I have loads of available regen on a pack below 80%. Here is what it should do and what it already does when it is piloting the car. Regen mode should offer the same amount of deceleration regardless of pack state and accomplish this by blending in the physical brakes. It should be wholly transparent to the user. Seriously today was just spooky. Got a the 44.6 update replaced two tires and rotated them at the same time and on my drive home regen was not there. take my foot off the pedal it felt like it was still accelerating even with no black bar indicating power applied. I even took out the floor mat thinking the tire shop wedged in wrong or such. Real fun slowing with brakes because it feels wholly different and then suddenly below 10mph it adds in regen out of the blue. | I was just trying to find your previous posts about the Acceleration boost! Adding this to my bookmarks. Coming from an ICE car I m continually amazed at the precision that Tesla is able to alter power delivery to the wheels based on SoC and road conditions. | 69 | 5 | 9,241 |
rlhj90 | 615 | Model 3 Fact-Finding – Testing the Traction Control and Regen Responsiveness in Snow Ice With the [recent confirmation](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model_3_factfinding_awd_split_power_bias_snow ) of a split power mode (the oft-requested Snow Mode ) I set out to benchmark the traction control performance and regeneration curve of my car under slippery conditions. Where I live has recently experienced a freezing rain followed by 10+ cm of snowfall and a cold snap in the -20°C range leading to some of the most slippery driving conditions imaginable short of driving on actual ice. I tested my car last night at -13°C ambient on a particular side road that hasn t seen much sanding or grading leading to a mostly hard-packed snow surface with occasional bare ice exposed. Even though I have nice Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 winter tires on my car accelerating at full power under these conditions is definitely a handful requiring adept corrective steering just to remain pointing straight. As a baseline measurement [here s a plot](https: i.imgur.com IOdoCno.png) of my 2018 Model 3 AWD w [Acceleration Boost](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments eczol8 model_3_awd_acceleration_boost_tested_from_0160 ) under ideal dry roads & warm battery conditions. All my data is captured from the car s CAN bus using [Scan My Tesla](https: www.scanmytesla.com ) and is generally sampled at 100 Hz and accurate to 0.01 seconds or better except for wheel RPM counters which update at approximately 10 Hz (every 0.1 seconds). My car will reach 60 km h 2.52 seconds after the accelerator is first pressed 60 mph after 4.09 seconds and 100 km h after 4.27 seconds. Owing to the car s speedometer being tied to some combination of the smoothed data from the position sensors within the motors there s about a 0.28 second delay between the first recorded change in accelerator pedal position and the first recorded increase in speed. This delay would be somewhat akin to true reaction time and would not normally be measurable or incorporated in a drag strip time or dragy run. Testing my car in the standard Sport setting and Normal regen [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com zKYk3yJ.png). Under the slippery road conditions 60 km h was achieved in 6.80 seconds and 100 km h was not safely possible. I allowed my car to reach a peak of about 77 km h as indicated on the speedometer then completely let off the accelerator pedal and let the car use only regen braking to come to a stop. Aside from an occasional patch of ice and the car preferring to split the braking power across both axles as opposed to the usual 100% rear braking on dry roads the regen power profile matched that of a dry road run and peaked at the usual 0.2 G of deceleration even under these poor conditions. Control was not an issue and the RPMs on both axles reduced linearly with speed indicating no lockups occurred. [Here s a zoomed-in portion](https: i.imgur.com lmNNAGM.png) of the launch showing an initial burst in power to the front motor followed by both motors receiving approximately equal power as speeds on both axles ramped up equally. You can also see a repeated fluctuation of front motor power with peaks and troughs spaced approximately 0.1 seconds apart as the car struggles to output peak power to the axle. At the 1 second mark the wheels are only rotating at ~80 RPM meaning these adjustments are occurring as frequently as *7-8 times per wheel rotation*. [Here s a zoomed-in portion](https: i.imgur.com nESzoF9.png) of the transition from power to regen. The car throttled motor powers down to zero within 0.31 seconds of full pedal release and kept motor power negligible for 0.10 seconds afterward. During this time the indicated speed and RPMs of both axles dropped abruptly as the car s wheels were no longer spinning faster than the actual travel speed and recoupled with the road surface below them. After this regen braking kicked up initially on the front axle at a low rate of about -12 kW to allow the car a gentle transition to shifting its weight to the front wheels then about 0.4 seconds later began regen braking with the rear axle as well at a peak of about -30 kW while maintaining front axle braking at about -15 kW. After 1.5 seconds the car split the regen braking strength equally between both axles at a combined maximum braking of -55 kW which was also the regen limit of my battery at the time. Below 26 km h the car transitioned back to primarily rear axle regen braking until coming to a stop. One other noteworthy section of the graph occurs [around the 14 second mark](https: i.imgur.com QcoITX3.png) when the regen power on the front motor is first observed to drop for about 0.15 seconds followed by a similar drop 0.28 seconds later on the rear axle. At the car s approximate speed of 36 km h at the time the 0.28 second delay equates to [a travel distance of 110 inches](https: www.google.com search?q=0.28+seconds+*++36+km%2Fhr+in+inches) which almost exactly matches my car s [113 inch wheelbase](https: www.caranddriver.com tesla model-3 specs). This means the traction control reacted to a single patch of ice that first traversed the front wheels by slowing regen braking and then resuming full regen on that axle *before doing it again when the same patch of ice had reached the back tires* - very impressive responsiveness! Testing again on the same stretch of road using [Slip Start](https: www.tesla.com ownersmanual model3 en_us GUID-CC0F27E7-FD78-448D-B739-209EBBEDF2C3.html) mode [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com oIqHQtb.png). With Slip Start enabled the car was happy to ramp up the rear axle s RPM much higher than the front initially but this provided no additional acceleration with the car reaching 60 km h in 8.32 seconds (1.5 seconds longer than without it). The rear axle s RPM and motor power remained as much as 2-3x higher than the front axle until about 48 km h and then equalized. [The transition to regen](https: i.imgur.com NqdCRmk.png) is very similar to the last plot albeit with a less abrupt decrease in indicated speed and front RPMs leading me to believe the car s speed measurement is tied to the slower axle sensor (in this case the front axle rather than the rear). The transition back to primarily rear braking again occurred below 26 km h. Testing again using the oft-recommended combo of Chill mode and Low regen [produced the following plot](https: i.imgur.com o1lEqgM.png). Doing a full launch in Chill mode was definitely still squirrelly on the conditions I was testing under and required quick reactive steering to remain pointing straight. As I ve measured previously in my comprehensive [efficiency analysis](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments iws58g model_3_factfinding_an_endtoend_efficiency ) the [power curve in Chill mode](https: i.imgur.com Bjd5ZXN.png) typically nerfs launch power by approximately half and caps output at 160 kW across all trims with a similarly observed [50% decrease in regen strength](https: i.imgur.com EhzJrIQ.png) on Low regen. Owing to the already-slippery conditions the car basically performed not much slower in Chill mode than in Sport mode first reaching 60 km h after 8.50 seconds before cutting power and indicated speed from hitting an icy patch then again showing 60 km h reached at 9.15 seconds. Comparatively the [throttle down to zero power](https: i.imgur.com aHVpYPV.png) took longer owing to the slower pedal responsiveness of Chill mode requiring about 0.5 seconds vs. Sport s 0.3 seconds but only another 0.5 seconds was required to reach the lower maximum regen strength of Low mode as opposed to the > 1 seconds of the stronger Normal mode. Owing to the different regen strengths and deceleration forces the resulting [jerk](https: en.wikipedia.org wiki Jerk_\\(physics\\)) is still about the same even under these far from ideal conditions which is apparently one of [Tesla s designing principles](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 1457083243933601802) for autopilot. Motor power was mostly equally split throughout both acceleration and deceleration and the transition back to primarily rear braking again occurred below 26 km h. The deceleration power was cut approximately in half compared to Normal regen (as expected) and there were no issues controlling the stop albeit at the expense of 60-0 km h now taking over 15 seconds vs. the previous 8 seconds. My recommendations for those worried about winter driving is first and foremost to invest in a set of good winter tires (and optionally second set of rims that you can swap yourself). An AWD car will also be superior in that it can apply equal regen braking on both axles as opposed to only one axle or engaging the physical brakes. The responsiveness of regen braking as a means of slowing down on slippery roads is unmatched compared to even ABS in my opinion while the physical brakes should only be used in emergency braking scenarios. Cars that still have Low regen as a setting offer no discernable advantage over Normal regen unless you prefer to brake like a granny and slow down half a mile before each light in which case you can also feather the pedal accordingly for roughly the same result. Assuming you like to do full power launches on treacherous icy roads setting your car to Chill mode does decrease your acceleration profile somewhat compared to the standard sport setting but the Venn diagram of the two groups surely mustn t touch. If you prefer the nerfed pedal mapping and smoothed out pedal response of Chill mode when things get icy that s still a reasonable approach but the old trope of Sport acceleration on AWD cars kicking out the back wheels before the car has a chance to adjust seems to no longer be the case with the recent [Cold Weather Improvements](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model_3_factfinding_awd_split_power_bias_snow ). | Regen braking is unreliable in colder weather. The biggest I have with Tesla s regen braking is that the state of the pack can affect how the car drives. I take my foot off the accelerator it should slow down every single time. Take today 39F and raining. Regen usage is near random. Sometimes I lift off the pedal and nothing happens. There are at most five dots on the far left of the bar which should mean I have loads of available regen on a pack below 80%. Here is what it should do and what it already does when it is piloting the car. Regen mode should offer the same amount of deceleration regardless of pack state and accomplish this by blending in the physical brakes. It should be wholly transparent to the user. Seriously today was just spooky. Got a the 44.6 update replaced two tires and rotated them at the same time and on my drive home regen was not there. take my foot off the pedal it felt like it was still accelerating even with no black bar indicating power applied. I even took out the floor mat thinking the tire shop wedged in wrong or such. Real fun slowing with brakes because it feels wholly different and then suddenly below 10mph it adds in regen out of the blue. | TL DR please? | 69 | 19 | 9,242 |
rm4ncn | 746 | Dangerous FSD Beta bug - Please be aware **tl dr If FSD enters an intersection on a yellow light and the light turns red while in the intersection - and the cameras can still see the light - FSD will hard brake in the middle of the intersection.** I nearly got rear ended a couple days ago and I ve since reproduced the condition enough to understand what is going on and IMHO this is very dangerous so people should be aware of it if you aren t already. If you have already entered an intersection and then the light turns red FSD will SLAM on the brakes and try to stop right in the middle of the intersection. Obviously the correct behaviour here is to either continue through the intersection or not enter in the first place. I m not sure what logic is used to determine if it continues on the yellow or not but once you are in the intersection you sure as heck should not be stopping. The first time this happened I thought it was more phantom braking. The second time I got more curious and then the third I happened to notice in the corner of my eye the traffic lights turning red on the FSD display. After that I intentionally recreated the situation a few times enough to determine this behaviour was consistent. It may manifest more in areas like mine that have some really huge intersections. Also from this I learned that the car can see a lot more than I can lol. Each time this happened I couldn t even see the lights anymore as they were too far above me but the wide FOV cam apparently could! Note this is on 10.5 as I am one of the ones seemingly stuck on that. I don t know if the bug exists on 10.6 10.6.1 10.7 I have sent this same information to Tesla directly for what that s worth. EDIT: To everyone who took this post as it was intended simply as a way to share information with the testing community to make everyone a better safer tester thank you. To the small minority of people who took this as whining or just had the stfu you whiner reply. Gert lost. You are not helping the community not helping Test and not helping FSD. Working together helping each other to be safe and find bugs repro cases is how we help advance the future of FSD with Tesla. Be part of the solution not the problem. | This happens to me everyday. I don t know how any of you guys drive on beta but my foot is always hovering over the accelerator. Whenever the car tries to slam on the brakes inappropriately I don t let it. | I can confirm it exists on 10.6.1. It s definitely been noticeable for me since 10.5. I do just prepare for it and press the accelerator through it. | 265 | 3 | 9,243 |
rm4ncn | 746 | Dangerous FSD Beta bug - Please be aware **tl dr If FSD enters an intersection on a yellow light and the light turns red while in the intersection - and the cameras can still see the light - FSD will hard brake in the middle of the intersection.** I nearly got rear ended a couple days ago and I ve since reproduced the condition enough to understand what is going on and IMHO this is very dangerous so people should be aware of it if you aren t already. If you have already entered an intersection and then the light turns red FSD will SLAM on the brakes and try to stop right in the middle of the intersection. Obviously the correct behaviour here is to either continue through the intersection or not enter in the first place. I m not sure what logic is used to determine if it continues on the yellow or not but once you are in the intersection you sure as heck should not be stopping. The first time this happened I thought it was more phantom braking. The second time I got more curious and then the third I happened to notice in the corner of my eye the traffic lights turning red on the FSD display. After that I intentionally recreated the situation a few times enough to determine this behaviour was consistent. It may manifest more in areas like mine that have some really huge intersections. Also from this I learned that the car can see a lot more than I can lol. Each time this happened I couldn t even see the lights anymore as they were too far above me but the wide FOV cam apparently could! Note this is on 10.5 as I am one of the ones seemingly stuck on that. I don t know if the bug exists on 10.6 10.6.1 10.7 I have sent this same information to Tesla directly for what that s worth. EDIT: To everyone who took this post as it was intended simply as a way to share information with the testing community to make everyone a better safer tester thank you. To the small minority of people who took this as whining or just had the stfu you whiner reply. Gert lost. You are not helping the community not helping Test and not helping FSD. Working together helping each other to be safe and find bugs repro cases is how we help advance the future of FSD with Tesla. Be part of the solution not the problem. | This happens to me everyday. I don t know how any of you guys drive on beta but my foot is always hovering over the accelerator. Whenever the car tries to slam on the brakes inappropriately I don t let it. | I haven t experienced that particular issue but I have had it where it proceeds into the intersection on green and stops waiting to turn left and then just stay there after the light cycles to red. Then I had to reverse out of the intersection because the cross traffic already started going. | 265 | 15 | 9,244 |
rm4ncn | 746 | Dangerous FSD Beta bug - Please be aware **tl dr If FSD enters an intersection on a yellow light and the light turns red while in the intersection - and the cameras can still see the light - FSD will hard brake in the middle of the intersection.** I nearly got rear ended a couple days ago and I ve since reproduced the condition enough to understand what is going on and IMHO this is very dangerous so people should be aware of it if you aren t already. If you have already entered an intersection and then the light turns red FSD will SLAM on the brakes and try to stop right in the middle of the intersection. Obviously the correct behaviour here is to either continue through the intersection or not enter in the first place. I m not sure what logic is used to determine if it continues on the yellow or not but once you are in the intersection you sure as heck should not be stopping. The first time this happened I thought it was more phantom braking. The second time I got more curious and then the third I happened to notice in the corner of my eye the traffic lights turning red on the FSD display. After that I intentionally recreated the situation a few times enough to determine this behaviour was consistent. It may manifest more in areas like mine that have some really huge intersections. Also from this I learned that the car can see a lot more than I can lol. Each time this happened I couldn t even see the lights anymore as they were too far above me but the wide FOV cam apparently could! Note this is on 10.5 as I am one of the ones seemingly stuck on that. I don t know if the bug exists on 10.6 10.6.1 10.7 I have sent this same information to Tesla directly for what that s worth. EDIT: To everyone who took this post as it was intended simply as a way to share information with the testing community to make everyone a better safer tester thank you. To the small minority of people who took this as whining or just had the stfu you whiner reply. Gert lost. You are not helping the community not helping Test and not helping FSD. Working together helping each other to be safe and find bugs repro cases is how we help advance the future of FSD with Tesla. Be part of the solution not the problem. | Here s another one. Certain LED stop lights appear to the camera system to be strobing lights so fsd treats it as a 4 way stop. There is one next to me it always tries to enter the intersection on a red light. | Happens to me on 10.5 it s pretty good at judging when to go through a yellow but when it is wrong enough to see the red light before getting all the way through this is guaranteed it seems. | 111 | 2 | 9,245 |
rn02wh | 45 | I let my Tesla battery go to 1% before supercharging how bad is this? I have a Tesla Model 3 Overestimated a journey and the battery ended up going to 1 before I found a supercharger. I ll make sure to not let this happen again. Getting a bit anxious as I read online how this isn t good for the battery. How bad is it that this happened? | You ll be fine as long as you never speak of this again. | I think you ll be fine. As long as you don t all the time like everyone else says. | 89 | 2 | 9,246 |
rn02wh | 45 | I let my Tesla battery go to 1% before supercharging how bad is this? I have a Tesla Model 3 Overestimated a journey and the battery ended up going to 1 before I found a supercharger. I ll make sure to not let this happen again. Getting a bit anxious as I read online how this isn t good for the battery. How bad is it that this happened? | You ll be fine as long as you never speak of this again. | It s not really an issue. As long as you aren t letting it sit there for long periods. You get faster charging speeds the lower it is. Every couple of weeks I charge my car to 100% and then discharge it until it is completely dead. Then I charge it back up to my normal level. My purpose of this is to help it identify the top and bottom voltages so it can stay as accurate as possible. I have 73k miles on a 9 19 manufactured Model 3. It still says I get 271 miles at full charge and has for a year or more so I d say it hasn t hurt me too much doing this. | 89 | 2 | 9,247 |
rn02wh | 45 | I let my Tesla battery go to 1% before supercharging how bad is this? I have a Tesla Model 3 Overestimated a journey and the battery ended up going to 1 before I found a supercharger. I ll make sure to not let this happen again. Getting a bit anxious as I read online how this isn t good for the battery. How bad is it that this happened? | You ll be fine as long as you never speak of this again. | Youll have to do this a lot of times before it truly has any noticeable effect. Chill. | 89 | 3 | 9,248 |
rnrbpn | 836 | Tesla Light Show: Custom Show Creation Hey Reddit We re the Tesla Body Controls Firmware Team we re the folks that make electronic features on Teslas open close move light up etc! We created the Tesla Light Show feature for Software V11.0. [Blog](https: www.tesla.com blog introducing-software-v11-0) [Instagram](https: www.instagram.com p CX3zNwGh_Xj ) [S3XY YouTube](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=lfucQM07tGQ) For Light Show we ve also created a way for *anyone* to create their own Light Shows no Tesla vehicle required. Shows are created using xLights free open-source software. [See This Tweet](https: mobile.twitter.com Tesla status 1474419497834586115) We re so excited to see what you come up with! Check out our documentation: https: github.com teslamotors light-show & nbsp And if this type of work interests you we re hiring. [Software Validation Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job software-validation-engineer-body-controls-firmware-67287) [System Integration Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job systems-integration-engineer-body-controls-111598) [System Validation Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job software-development-engineer-lv-body-controls-automation-111524) [Embedded Software Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job embedded-software-engineer-body-controls-111919) & nbsp We ll monitor this post for any feedback. & nbsp Happy Holidays! Tesla Body Controls Firmware | You guys are awesome for making this making this open source and coming to answer questions. Only thing missing is a central place where creators can post their creations with a video demonstration of their work so other owners can download to enjoy. | Thank you for your hard work and service! Loving your work! | 204 | 6 | 9,249 |
rnrbpn | 836 | Tesla Light Show: Custom Show Creation Hey Reddit We re the Tesla Body Controls Firmware Team we re the folks that make electronic features on Teslas open close move light up etc! We created the Tesla Light Show feature for Software V11.0. [Blog](https: www.tesla.com blog introducing-software-v11-0) [Instagram](https: www.instagram.com p CX3zNwGh_Xj ) [S3XY YouTube](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=lfucQM07tGQ) For Light Show we ve also created a way for *anyone* to create their own Light Shows no Tesla vehicle required. Shows are created using xLights free open-source software. [See This Tweet](https: mobile.twitter.com Tesla status 1474419497834586115) We re so excited to see what you come up with! Check out our documentation: https: github.com teslamotors light-show & nbsp And if this type of work interests you we re hiring. [Software Validation Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job software-validation-engineer-body-controls-firmware-67287) [System Integration Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job systems-integration-engineer-body-controls-111598) [System Validation Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job software-development-engineer-lv-body-controls-automation-111524) [Embedded Software Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job embedded-software-engineer-body-controls-111919) & nbsp We ll monitor this post for any feedback. & nbsp Happy Holidays! Tesla Body Controls Firmware | You guys are awesome for making this making this open source and coming to answer questions. Only thing missing is a central place where creators can post their creations with a video demonstration of their work so other owners can download to enjoy. | You guys rock | 204 | 8 | 9,250 |
rnrbpn | 836 | Tesla Light Show: Custom Show Creation Hey Reddit We re the Tesla Body Controls Firmware Team we re the folks that make electronic features on Teslas open close move light up etc! We created the Tesla Light Show feature for Software V11.0. [Blog](https: www.tesla.com blog introducing-software-v11-0) [Instagram](https: www.instagram.com p CX3zNwGh_Xj ) [S3XY YouTube](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=lfucQM07tGQ) For Light Show we ve also created a way for *anyone* to create their own Light Shows no Tesla vehicle required. Shows are created using xLights free open-source software. [See This Tweet](https: mobile.twitter.com Tesla status 1474419497834586115) We re so excited to see what you come up with! Check out our documentation: https: github.com teslamotors light-show & nbsp And if this type of work interests you we re hiring. [Software Validation Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job software-validation-engineer-body-controls-firmware-67287) [System Integration Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job systems-integration-engineer-body-controls-111598) [System Validation Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job software-development-engineer-lv-body-controls-automation-111524) [Embedded Software Engineer Body Controls](https: www.tesla.com careers search job embedded-software-engineer-body-controls-111919) & nbsp We ll monitor this post for any feedback. & nbsp Happy Holidays! Tesla Body Controls Firmware | You guys are awesome for making this making this open source and coming to answer questions. Only thing missing is a central place where creators can post their creations with a video demonstration of their work so other owners can download to enjoy. | Great job! Could somebody quickly create a version of the default show but without any windows etc opening and moving? I d love to see it but having -15C outside and snow and ice everywhere sounds like a bad combination. | 204 | 9 | 9,251 |
rnz8tr | 3,190 | The Light Show is all well and good but does anyone else think this update is a HUGE regression otherwise? Wipers moved behind a menu. Save Dashcam button moved behind a menu. Dual zone climate control buttons forced upon you even if you never use it. Impossible to turn on heated seats with climate control off (especially stupid since Tesla themselves state to use heated seats instead of cabin heat to save battery but now that is not possible)-- and they re in a menu now. Impossible to turn on rear glass heat without also turning on the climate control. Moved the change-map-orientation button to a harder spot to reach for no reason. Can t see energy use trip computer while driving without it taking over the whole map. The Messages pane is much smaller so you can t see the conversation at a glance without scrolling. The list of regressions just keeps going on and on. I m not convinced this UI was designed by people who have actually ever used a car before. | I m finding quite a few things I used to easily access with the one touch now requires at least two. | They re just trying to keep up with Windows 11 | 1,244 | 36 | 9,252 |
rnz8tr | 3,190 | The Light Show is all well and good but does anyone else think this update is a HUGE regression otherwise? Wipers moved behind a menu. Save Dashcam button moved behind a menu. Dual zone climate control buttons forced upon you even if you never use it. Impossible to turn on heated seats with climate control off (especially stupid since Tesla themselves state to use heated seats instead of cabin heat to save battery but now that is not possible)-- and they re in a menu now. Impossible to turn on rear glass heat without also turning on the climate control. Moved the change-map-orientation button to a harder spot to reach for no reason. Can t see energy use trip computer while driving without it taking over the whole map. The Messages pane is much smaller so you can t see the conversation at a glance without scrolling. The list of regressions just keeps going on and on. I m not convinced this UI was designed by people who have actually ever used a car before. | Yes very disappointed by it. Turn on defrost? Now instead of being in the taskbar it s in a menu Heated seats the same but even more confusing. Radio is clunkier. It used to just be change sources between Bluetooth and FM and it defaults to the last FM station you were on. Now you need to actually select a station for it to switch over which means opening up the list of favorite stations. Driver profiles are now hidden in the menu Save Dashcam is now hidden in the menu Colorful icons are ugly and don t really make sense to me but that I suppose I ll get used to. I used to defend Tesla when people said it s so dumb that you need to use a touchscreen when driving because all of the common controls were either along the top of the screen or the bottom of the screen and could be done with a single press with the buttons staying in the same place. Now they ve ruined it everything is clunky. I hate it and there s no way to uninstall the update or to switch to the UI. Or even a way for me to leave negative feedback with Tesla in hopes that they might revert some of the changes in a future update. It s not simplified when you take a bunch of functions that were easy to find on the main screen and bury them in menus. Everything is much more complicated to do. This is a fucking car not a phone and being able to conveniently control it when you re driving is important. Plus it s not like the simplified UI actually improved anything. There s now two different temperature displays (even though I don t enable dual zone climate) and a bunch more blank space gee thanks. | I agree on every point. It s now impossible to have any mileage indicator while driving which I really dislike. I also hate all the top right icons moving behind menus they were useful one click buttons that were not in the way. | 617 | 5 | 9,253 |
rnz8tr | 3,190 | The Light Show is all well and good but does anyone else think this update is a HUGE regression otherwise? Wipers moved behind a menu. Save Dashcam button moved behind a menu. Dual zone climate control buttons forced upon you even if you never use it. Impossible to turn on heated seats with climate control off (especially stupid since Tesla themselves state to use heated seats instead of cabin heat to save battery but now that is not possible)-- and they re in a menu now. Impossible to turn on rear glass heat without also turning on the climate control. Moved the change-map-orientation button to a harder spot to reach for no reason. Can t see energy use trip computer while driving without it taking over the whole map. The Messages pane is much smaller so you can t see the conversation at a glance without scrolling. The list of regressions just keeps going on and on. I m not convinced this UI was designed by people who have actually ever used a car before. | Yes very disappointed by it. Turn on defrost? Now instead of being in the taskbar it s in a menu Heated seats the same but even more confusing. Radio is clunkier. It used to just be change sources between Bluetooth and FM and it defaults to the last FM station you were on. Now you need to actually select a station for it to switch over which means opening up the list of favorite stations. Driver profiles are now hidden in the menu Save Dashcam is now hidden in the menu Colorful icons are ugly and don t really make sense to me but that I suppose I ll get used to. I used to defend Tesla when people said it s so dumb that you need to use a touchscreen when driving because all of the common controls were either along the top of the screen or the bottom of the screen and could be done with a single press with the buttons staying in the same place. Now they ve ruined it everything is clunky. I hate it and there s no way to uninstall the update or to switch to the UI. Or even a way for me to leave negative feedback with Tesla in hopes that they might revert some of the changes in a future update. It s not simplified when you take a bunch of functions that were easy to find on the main screen and bury them in menus. Everything is much more complicated to do. This is a fucking car not a phone and being able to conveniently control it when you re driving is important. Plus it s not like the simplified UI actually improved anything. There s now two different temperature displays (even though I don t enable dual zone climate) and a bunch more blank space gee thanks. | Agreed it s got some regressions but the heated seats and glass heater are accessible if you long press the temperature on the menu bar. I m not sure if it turns the HVAC on when you do this though (I ve only had it on so far with this update due to the weather). And the Energy app was always full-screen though the Trips being full-screen is annoying. | 617 | 6 | 9,254 |
ro28oa | 130 | PSA: Auto dashcam seems to be disabled by default when you update to V11. Make sure to enable for all profiles before driving I noticed this on all of my profiles. Dashcam was set to off as well as record on honk set to disabled. Edit: seems that YMMV. Probably a good idea to check just to be sure | My dashcam settings remained just the way I had them | I wish it would at least notify us of which preferences were changed if they re having trouble retaining preferences between updates. These should be cloud profiles tied to the Tesla account. Very weird considering the car already uses the account anyway? | 50 | 20 | 9,255 |
ro2y36 | 1,305 | I think the holiday update is a step backwards in design and functionality. Do you agree? I just got the Holiday update with FSD Beta and in the span of a few minutes I gathered the following reasons why I don t like the UI at all. I not only think it looks like a rushed design overhaul with mismatched color schemes icon designs and inconsistencies this update actually has taken away a lot of conveniently located items and buried them in menus thereby sacrificing functionality and efficiency. I have enumerated my reasons here and the link below references images. [https: imgur.com a u8CPftc](https: imgur.com a u8CPftc) 1. The icons are childish and unpolished. Someone else had said the icons look like they were designed by a 3rd year old. I agree. The colors remind me of off-brand phone OS and there is inconsistencies in icon design. In the old build the icon bar at the bottom nicely blended with the rest of the UI and the icons weren t vibrantly blinding you with colors. They were quietly sitting there blending with the rest of the UI! I really don t like this as you might be able to tell from the emotions haha! 2. The speedometer is terribly small and horribly positioned in the leftmost corner. In certain driving positions your right hand can block the view of it. What was wrong with it large bolded and centered? 3. Checking trip information was easy and one slide away. Why is it now buried in the menus? 4. Same as in 3. but for tire pressure. 5. When you pull up from the bottom of the screen no matter where you begin from the HVAC controls come up. This seems like a waste of gestures in functionality. For example it was nice that in the previous builds we could get different music player UIs by sliding up and down on the icon. 6. The full-screen FSD Beta visualization is *nice* but it should not have replaced the semi full-screen view. I loved the 2 3 1 3 split between Beta and maps because it gave me the best view of what Beta was seeing and about to do and what the next maneuver was based on map data. I don t really see the point of this full-screen view. I don t trust Beta enough to let it go without me seeing the map in full detail. The little window in the left bottom corner only tells you your next move so it s not as detailed as a full map with your position on it. 7. This one kills me. Why did they remove frequently used items from the top of the screen like Dashcam and move it to the Controls menu? Imagine while driving you want to suddenly record a clip. Instead of the conveniently located icon which was one tap away you have to go through two taps and find a location on the screen while focused on driving.Also from a design perspective why would you mix functionalities that can potentially be used on every drive--dashcam wiper settings--with rare features like screen brightness and mirrors and steering setting? All in all it looks like this update was rushed and little thought went into the design elements and the trade-off between decluttering and losing functionality. This isn t meant to blame the engineers as I m sure they re all overclocked at work but rather I want to see what other people think. I *personally* really don t like this update as I think it s a step backwards for the most part and I hope we see a UI change in the near future. What do you think? | Having an icon for Arcade Toybox and Theater (most of those aren t available in drive) but none for tire pressure trip info seat heaters or defrosting fog lights etc. are beyond understandable. & #x200B Also before we could hide some music services we did not use and now I have a freaking icon for bluetooth radio caraoke spotify tidal streaming usb tunein... 8 shortcuts icons I can not hide even if you only use USB and never even launched the others. | 3 and 4 are my biggest gripe. | 408 | 5 | 9,256 |
ro2y36 | 1,305 | I think the holiday update is a step backwards in design and functionality. Do you agree? I just got the Holiday update with FSD Beta and in the span of a few minutes I gathered the following reasons why I don t like the UI at all. I not only think it looks like a rushed design overhaul with mismatched color schemes icon designs and inconsistencies this update actually has taken away a lot of conveniently located items and buried them in menus thereby sacrificing functionality and efficiency. I have enumerated my reasons here and the link below references images. [https: imgur.com a u8CPftc](https: imgur.com a u8CPftc) 1. The icons are childish and unpolished. Someone else had said the icons look like they were designed by a 3rd year old. I agree. The colors remind me of off-brand phone OS and there is inconsistencies in icon design. In the old build the icon bar at the bottom nicely blended with the rest of the UI and the icons weren t vibrantly blinding you with colors. They were quietly sitting there blending with the rest of the UI! I really don t like this as you might be able to tell from the emotions haha! 2. The speedometer is terribly small and horribly positioned in the leftmost corner. In certain driving positions your right hand can block the view of it. What was wrong with it large bolded and centered? 3. Checking trip information was easy and one slide away. Why is it now buried in the menus? 4. Same as in 3. but for tire pressure. 5. When you pull up from the bottom of the screen no matter where you begin from the HVAC controls come up. This seems like a waste of gestures in functionality. For example it was nice that in the previous builds we could get different music player UIs by sliding up and down on the icon. 6. The full-screen FSD Beta visualization is *nice* but it should not have replaced the semi full-screen view. I loved the 2 3 1 3 split between Beta and maps because it gave me the best view of what Beta was seeing and about to do and what the next maneuver was based on map data. I don t really see the point of this full-screen view. I don t trust Beta enough to let it go without me seeing the map in full detail. The little window in the left bottom corner only tells you your next move so it s not as detailed as a full map with your position on it. 7. This one kills me. Why did they remove frequently used items from the top of the screen like Dashcam and move it to the Controls menu? Imagine while driving you want to suddenly record a clip. Instead of the conveniently located icon which was one tap away you have to go through two taps and find a location on the screen while focused on driving.Also from a design perspective why would you mix functionalities that can potentially be used on every drive--dashcam wiper settings--with rare features like screen brightness and mirrors and steering setting? All in all it looks like this update was rushed and little thought went into the design elements and the trade-off between decluttering and losing functionality. This isn t meant to blame the engineers as I m sure they re all overclocked at work but rather I want to see what other people think. I *personally* really don t like this update as I think it s a step backwards for the most part and I hope we see a UI change in the near future. What do you think? | Having an icon for Arcade Toybox and Theater (most of those aren t available in drive) but none for tire pressure trip info seat heaters or defrosting fog lights etc. are beyond understandable. & #x200B Also before we could hide some music services we did not use and now I have a freaking icon for bluetooth radio caraoke spotify tidal streaming usb tunein... 8 shortcuts icons I can not hide even if you only use USB and never even launched the others. | I totally agree with OP. | 408 | 5 | 9,257 |
ro2y36 | 1,305 | I think the holiday update is a step backwards in design and functionality. Do you agree? I just got the Holiday update with FSD Beta and in the span of a few minutes I gathered the following reasons why I don t like the UI at all. I not only think it looks like a rushed design overhaul with mismatched color schemes icon designs and inconsistencies this update actually has taken away a lot of conveniently located items and buried them in menus thereby sacrificing functionality and efficiency. I have enumerated my reasons here and the link below references images. [https: imgur.com a u8CPftc](https: imgur.com a u8CPftc) 1. The icons are childish and unpolished. Someone else had said the icons look like they were designed by a 3rd year old. I agree. The colors remind me of off-brand phone OS and there is inconsistencies in icon design. In the old build the icon bar at the bottom nicely blended with the rest of the UI and the icons weren t vibrantly blinding you with colors. They were quietly sitting there blending with the rest of the UI! I really don t like this as you might be able to tell from the emotions haha! 2. The speedometer is terribly small and horribly positioned in the leftmost corner. In certain driving positions your right hand can block the view of it. What was wrong with it large bolded and centered? 3. Checking trip information was easy and one slide away. Why is it now buried in the menus? 4. Same as in 3. but for tire pressure. 5. When you pull up from the bottom of the screen no matter where you begin from the HVAC controls come up. This seems like a waste of gestures in functionality. For example it was nice that in the previous builds we could get different music player UIs by sliding up and down on the icon. 6. The full-screen FSD Beta visualization is *nice* but it should not have replaced the semi full-screen view. I loved the 2 3 1 3 split between Beta and maps because it gave me the best view of what Beta was seeing and about to do and what the next maneuver was based on map data. I don t really see the point of this full-screen view. I don t trust Beta enough to let it go without me seeing the map in full detail. The little window in the left bottom corner only tells you your next move so it s not as detailed as a full map with your position on it. 7. This one kills me. Why did they remove frequently used items from the top of the screen like Dashcam and move it to the Controls menu? Imagine while driving you want to suddenly record a clip. Instead of the conveniently located icon which was one tap away you have to go through two taps and find a location on the screen while focused on driving.Also from a design perspective why would you mix functionalities that can potentially be used on every drive--dashcam wiper settings--with rare features like screen brightness and mirrors and steering setting? All in all it looks like this update was rushed and little thought went into the design elements and the trade-off between decluttering and losing functionality. This isn t meant to blame the engineers as I m sure they re all overclocked at work but rather I want to see what other people think. I *personally* really don t like this update as I think it s a step backwards for the most part and I hope we see a UI change in the near future. What do you think? | Having an icon for Arcade Toybox and Theater (most of those aren t available in drive) but none for tire pressure trip info seat heaters or defrosting fog lights etc. are beyond understandable. & #x200B Also before we could hide some music services we did not use and now I have a freaking icon for bluetooth radio caraoke spotify tidal streaming usb tunein... 8 shortcuts icons I can not hide even if you only use USB and never even launched the others. | Yea I completely agree with your take. I m starting to see a trend in my two and a half years of ownership. Tesla needs to hire experienced UI UX Designers. It s as simple as that. We receive class leading feature updates BUT the design and user experience considerations are either compromised or not fully baked. I felt similarly during last year s holiday update. Too many design inconsistencies font mismatch lack of icon standards lack of consideration for frequently used features and a complete lack of consideration for those who are even minimally visually impaired. Speedometer font size should be customizable and the lowest font size should be larger than current and centered above the driving visualization to minimize chances of a hand on the wheel blocking it. The majority of Tesla drivers do not have FSD yet the driving visualization has taken up map real estate for all of us since the last major update last year. For what purpose other than hubris? Most of us simply want to see the map and our route with a smaller window for the car visualization. Not the opposite. I could go on…but it seems Tesla ain t listening. | 408 | 15 | 9,258 |
ro5qdx | 158 | Tesla update 2021.44.25.2 save dashcam while driving So I used to be able to click the little camera icon at the top of the screen to bring up the dashcam menu while driving. I used that to save dashcam videos while driving without needing to honk. What s the quickest way to do this with the new UI? | The tesla fix to the non problem of easily saving dashcam footage is to take your eyes off the road and navigate menus. | Tap the car in the bottom left then tap the Recording icon | 232 | 69 | 9,259 |
ro5qdx | 158 | Tesla update 2021.44.25.2 save dashcam while driving So I used to be able to click the little camera icon at the top of the screen to bring up the dashcam menu while driving. I used that to save dashcam videos while driving without needing to honk. What s the quickest way to do this with the new UI? | Came to this thread to find a good solution but instead I m very depressed now. | Tap the car in the bottom left then tap the Recording icon | 145 | 69 | 9,260 |
ro74lz | 348 | FSD Beta Testers - please remember to hit the camera button when it does something bad. This is what beta testing is for. I see too many Youtube drives who just rant in their videos about this it does wrong but never hit the button. Please it s not that hard. That s it. | Don t forget to hit the button when it doesn t do something good (E.g. If it sits at empty intersection go hit button). | How do you know which one of those sends a stronger signal ? Is this anecdotal or where is this knowledge coming from? | 80 | 2 | 9,261 |
ro74lz | 348 | FSD Beta Testers - please remember to hit the camera button when it does something bad. This is what beta testing is for. I see too many Youtube drives who just rant in their videos about this it does wrong but never hit the button. Please it s not that hard. That s it. | Don t forget to hit the button when it doesn t do something good (E.g. If it sits at empty intersection go hit button). | Also they don t send the [email](https: i.imgur.com nEmTz7u.png) out anymore apparently. But it s informative. | 80 | 17 | 9,262 |
ro74lz | 348 | FSD Beta Testers - please remember to hit the camera button when it does something bad. This is what beta testing is for. I see too many Youtube drives who just rant in their videos about this it does wrong but never hit the button. Please it s not that hard. That s it. | Don t forget to hit the button when it doesn t do something good (E.g. If it sits at empty intersection go hit button). | It automatically saves a clip with you disengage. That s a much stronger signal than having Tesla guess that you pushed the button because the car sped up a little too fast for your liking. | 80 | 20 | 9,263 |
robzdy | 462 | What is the replacement for the tire pressure card on v11? I can no longer find my current tire pressure on v11 | Go to the service menu. It s hidden in there now. | P.s. I assume when tire pressure is low (or falling) it will pop something up. I frequently pull up my tire pressure card after running shit over to keep a close eye on any change in pressure. Occasionally I ve received no warning until I was pretty low and I like to be proactive when running on a schedule. | 327 | 67 | 9,264 |
robzdy | 462 | What is the replacement for the tire pressure card on v11? I can no longer find my current tire pressure on v11 | voice command tire pressure Edit: show me tire pressure seems to no longer work. Show service menu brings up the parent screen. Remarkable they would bury tire pressure and also the voice command attached to that card. How is that issue missed? | In the main menu under „Service“ but only when you drive as usual. | 147 | 13 | 9,265 |
robzdy | 462 | What is the replacement for the tire pressure card on v11? I can no longer find my current tire pressure on v11 | The tire pressure card and trip efficiency card where my two most used points of data. Now buried in a menu in full screen. My Tesla knows what to do when I request “open your vagina” but when I ask “what s my tire pressure?” command not recognized. Give me a break. | Voice command show me tire pressure | 119 | 3 | 9,266 |
rodw3v | 192 | New to FSD? Be careful. Tesla takes away much quicker than it gives You only get three Autopilot safety knock-outs. (Ie Take control Autopilot unavailable for rest of drive. ) It doesn t reset ever. driver monitoring is much more sensitive in the rain. It also likes to get you in trouble if you dare to turn your head at a freeway off-ramp to see if it s safe to continue. DMS suspends when the car stops but the instant the car starts moving you have to be paying attention. No 2 second delay in that situation. If i get a double beep “pay attention to road” I disengage AP and drive manually for five minutes. | Only three seems absolutely reasonable for a feature that requires you to constantly be paying full attention. I ve gotten zero in the Beta so far the limit doesn t concern me. | Fsdbeta* | 209 | 3 | 9,267 |
rodw3v | 192 | New to FSD? Be careful. Tesla takes away much quicker than it gives You only get three Autopilot safety knock-outs. (Ie Take control Autopilot unavailable for rest of drive. ) It doesn t reset ever. driver monitoring is much more sensitive in the rain. It also likes to get you in trouble if you dare to turn your head at a freeway off-ramp to see if it s safe to continue. DMS suspends when the car stops but the instant the car starts moving you have to be paying attention. No 2 second delay in that situation. If i get a double beep “pay attention to road” I disengage AP and drive manually for five minutes. | Only three seems absolutely reasonable for a feature that requires you to constantly be paying full attention. I ve gotten zero in the Beta so far the limit doesn t concern me. | Imagine paying $10k for Full Self Driving and this is best you can expect for the foreseeable future. | 209 | 10 | 9,268 |
rodw3v | 192 | New to FSD? Be careful. Tesla takes away much quicker than it gives You only get three Autopilot safety knock-outs. (Ie Take control Autopilot unavailable for rest of drive. ) It doesn t reset ever. driver monitoring is much more sensitive in the rain. It also likes to get you in trouble if you dare to turn your head at a freeway off-ramp to see if it s safe to continue. DMS suspends when the car stops but the instant the car starts moving you have to be paying attention. No 2 second delay in that situation. If i get a double beep “pay attention to road” I disengage AP and drive manually for five minutes. | Only three seems absolutely reasonable for a feature that requires you to constantly be paying full attention. I ve gotten zero in the Beta so far the limit doesn t concern me. | Sounds so fun to drive with FSD lol | 209 | 41 | 9,269 |
roglgp | 181 | Really enjoying the holiday update. Lots of practical improvements as well as a good sprinkling of gimmicky. Who else agrees? There s tons of posts about everything people don t like (hate) about the update. The same update that everyone was losing their mind to get asap 1-2 days ago. I m feeling like I might be the only one. Love the new UI the automatic seat heating the launcher list the subwoofer setting and the light show. FSD beta I m not seeing a drastic improvement but glad I have it vs not | The new features are good the usability is bad. In my opinion. | It brings some great new features but the entire UI is a huge step back in terms of usability. The loss of quick settings button across the top (why?) and the fact that my tripometer and tire pressure are hidden in menus… I could live with it if they gave me icons I could pin. | 456 | 230 | 9,270 |
roglgp | 181 | Really enjoying the holiday update. Lots of practical improvements as well as a good sprinkling of gimmicky. Who else agrees? There s tons of posts about everything people don t like (hate) about the update. The same update that everyone was losing their mind to get asap 1-2 days ago. I m feeling like I might be the only one. Love the new UI the automatic seat heating the launcher list the subwoofer setting and the light show. FSD beta I m not seeing a drastic improvement but glad I have it vs not | I ve never had a passenger want auto seat heating. They like to control that to individual preferences. They now have to pull up menus that obscure the UI that I am using to drive to modify this and that is assuming they are adventurous enough to interact that deeply with the screen while I m driving. It s really stupid. Everything in this update feels like this frustrating dumb decisions that are disconnected from how people use things. | Definitely some issues. Going to see how it feels after a week or two. With a few tweaks and new icon graphics it could be really 🔥 | 74 | 5 | 9,271 |
roglgp | 181 | Really enjoying the holiday update. Lots of practical improvements as well as a good sprinkling of gimmicky. Who else agrees? There s tons of posts about everything people don t like (hate) about the update. The same update that everyone was losing their mind to get asap 1-2 days ago. I m feeling like I might be the only one. Love the new UI the automatic seat heating the launcher list the subwoofer setting and the light show. FSD beta I m not seeing a drastic improvement but glad I have it vs not | I ve never had a passenger want auto seat heating. They like to control that to individual preferences. They now have to pull up menus that obscure the UI that I am using to drive to modify this and that is assuming they are adventurous enough to interact that deeply with the screen while I m driving. It s really stupid. Everything in this update feels like this frustrating dumb decisions that are disconnected from how people use things. | I like it overall. Wish a few things like heated seats weren t as hidden. I don t see why everyone is upset by wipers being 2 clicks. It was always two clicks even with the card option. It s just in a more centralized location with other controls such as headlights glovebox etc. It s good but I wish I could customize the bottom bar with more options such as heated seats heated wheel defrost etc. | 74 | 6 | 9,272 |
roy36n | 1,742 | OK how the hell do I turn on the seat warmers without turning on climate control now? Can someone please help me out? I think we all know how fucking stupid this update is I don t want a bitch fest I just want to turn on my seat warmers | You can pin the fart sounds to your Home Screen what more do you want? | Use the mobile app is another way. Your passenger if a key holder can do the same. Not ideal when moving driving. | 1,533 | 2 | 9,273 |
roy36n | 1,742 | OK how the hell do I turn on the seat warmers without turning on climate control now? Can someone please help me out? I think we all know how fucking stupid this update is I don t want a bitch fest I just want to turn on my seat warmers | You can pin the fart sounds to your Home Screen what more do you want? | “Three bacon strips for the driver seat” | 1,533 | 286 | 9,274 |
roy36n | 1,742 | OK how the hell do I turn on the seat warmers without turning on climate control now? Can someone please help me out? I think we all know how fucking stupid this update is I don t want a bitch fest I just want to turn on my seat warmers | You can pin the fart sounds to your Home Screen what more do you want? | You hope the new auto heated seat feature works better than the wipers 🤪 | 1,533 | 355 | 9,275 |
rpdmzn | 60 | Does Dog Mode not keep the doors locked? Not too long ago my wife n I had to run into the store real quick and thought it would be a good idea to leave the pup in the car since we wouldn t be gone for more than a few minutes. We put it on dog mode and left... When we came back the door was cracked open and a bystander had let us know that he thinks our dog opened the door. & nbsp Fortunately we had our dog s harness clipped into the cars safety belt so it couldn t go anywhere.. & nbsp Was there something I may have overlooked in the settings? | It locks. But locking didn t prevent someone inside from getting out. So your dog probably did open the door. | If you lock the car and the screen is still on anyone on the inside can still open it with no alarm being triggered. | 141 | 18 | 9,276 |
rpdmzn | 60 | Does Dog Mode not keep the doors locked? Not too long ago my wife n I had to run into the store real quick and thought it would be a good idea to leave the pup in the car since we wouldn t be gone for more than a few minutes. We put it on dog mode and left... When we came back the door was cracked open and a bystander had let us know that he thinks our dog opened the door. & nbsp Fortunately we had our dog s harness clipped into the cars safety belt so it couldn t go anywhere.. & nbsp Was there something I may have overlooked in the settings? | It locks. But locking didn t prevent someone inside from getting out. So your dog probably did open the door. | Another thing I find odd is it turns off sentry mode? I feel like that would be the time it would be nice to check in on the pup | 141 | 23 | 9,277 |
rpdmzn | 60 | Does Dog Mode not keep the doors locked? Not too long ago my wife n I had to run into the store real quick and thought it would be a good idea to leave the pup in the car since we wouldn t be gone for more than a few minutes. We put it on dog mode and left... When we came back the door was cracked open and a bystander had let us know that he thinks our dog opened the door. & nbsp Fortunately we had our dog s harness clipped into the cars safety belt so it couldn t go anywhere.. & nbsp Was there something I may have overlooked in the settings? | If your dog likes to look out the window they might have pushed the door button by mistake. You can turn on child lock in the back seat to prevent that from happening. | If you lock the car and the screen is still on anyone on the inside can still open it with no alarm being triggered. | 85 | 18 | 9,278 |
rpvjtr | 910 | V11 interface theory...it s for first-time Tesla owners more than anything. The v11 interface has plenty of stuff for long-time Tesla drivers like the blind spot camera and light show and so on but it s the interface changes that are bothering us. Perhaps the biggest complaint is that things that used to be right there on the bottom bar are now hidden in a menu (sometimes two layers deep). After using it for a bit I have a theory about why things are the way they are. With the apps being draggable that sort of makes sense...they re preparing for a future where there are more apps. Perhaps an app store or maybe just more apps and services. But with the controls I think this release is acknowledging that the new Tesla owner experience can be a little confusing and the company clearly plans for there to be a LOT of new customers over the next year or two. They re at a 1M yr run rate now and have two plants coming online in the next 3-4 months. When someone buys their first Tesla as I did a year ago it s a little confusing how some things are on the bottom bar some things are in the main car screen menu and some things are in submenus. It s not clear which controls you can work from the steering wheel and which only work on the screen. This release for all its faults does two things well. One it puts pretty much all the critical driving stuff on ONE screen. You tap the car icon and all the things you need while driving are right there. There s more on that screen it s a better use of space it s clearer for first-time Tesla owners. Odds are if you want to know how do I [common car thing you do while driving] it s on that screen when you tap the car icon. If you ever use the screen to do something you can do with the steering wheel a little tutorial popup appears to tell you how you can use the knobs on the steering wheel (like if you skip forward on a music track or adjust the volume). I don t recall ever seeing that before. I think they ve got a little work to do sure. Showing dual AC controls when the AC isn t split is more confusing than not and takes up valuable space. They could allow a few more icons on the toolbar they don t need a recently used apps section and if they let us drag most common controls down there instead of just apps it would solve nearly all problems. But I think from the 30 000-foot view this update probably makes the first time Tesla experience a bit less confusing. And it seems to me with the huge number of anticipated first-time Tesla owners over the coming year or two that may have been a primary motive. | I *do* think that a number of long-time users have V9 rose-colored glasses (I know I do) and to your point yes there were a number of UX incongruencies that never really made sense in contrast to the rest of the interface—like the card for trip pressure or the Bluetooth audio device controls being awkwardly hidden in the music menu which required a non-descript swipe up. Long-time owners have discovered these oddities and 3-years of habit have internalized them as good design. It s a who moved my cheese? scenario. I also agree with you that the consolidation of controls is a step in the right direction—it s more intuitive and logical **HOWEVER ** I believe that can be done without serious regressions. There are bugs that people are harping on that will be fixed but there s really two major issues: 1. Items that used to take a single tap (wipers driver profile dash cam clip seat heaters etc.) are now buried and require 1-3 additional taps. This is fine for something that s seldom accessed or while the car is stationary but it s not acceptable for important driver functions. 2. While I agree with you that the app drawer is an obvious nod to a future app store it s inconceivably stupid to me that those items (every single last one of them not pertaining to vehicle functions) can be placed into the dock and customized while important vehicle functions remain buried in the menu. I cannot put my wiper control on the main screen but I can put Tesla Theater which doesn t even work while the car is in motion. That s ***stupid***. I don t think Tesla needs to trash the entire update. It does bring improvements to the prior design however it does so at the expense of driver controls which is antithetical to what should be the objectives of a car that only has a screen. I don t see why Tesla couldn t have a parked and drive mode—each customizable. Why permit Arcade or Theater in the dock when the vehicle is driving? Allow users to place the functions they most want (there are people that want seat heaters accessible year-round and others that have never once turned them on and would rather have something else—let the users choose!). Then when the vehicle is in park have a customizable mode that s more entertainment-focused. | I wanted Apple Music. Didn t get it. Disappointed. Yes I know I can play it over Bluetooth. But you can t even change playlists over Bluetooth. Well…you can in every other car just not in Teslas. Because Teslas are SO advanced but they can t even do basic stuff like changing playlists when playing music over Bluetooth. | 654 | 3 | 9,279 |
rpvjtr | 910 | V11 interface theory...it s for first-time Tesla owners more than anything. The v11 interface has plenty of stuff for long-time Tesla drivers like the blind spot camera and light show and so on but it s the interface changes that are bothering us. Perhaps the biggest complaint is that things that used to be right there on the bottom bar are now hidden in a menu (sometimes two layers deep). After using it for a bit I have a theory about why things are the way they are. With the apps being draggable that sort of makes sense...they re preparing for a future where there are more apps. Perhaps an app store or maybe just more apps and services. But with the controls I think this release is acknowledging that the new Tesla owner experience can be a little confusing and the company clearly plans for there to be a LOT of new customers over the next year or two. They re at a 1M yr run rate now and have two plants coming online in the next 3-4 months. When someone buys their first Tesla as I did a year ago it s a little confusing how some things are on the bottom bar some things are in the main car screen menu and some things are in submenus. It s not clear which controls you can work from the steering wheel and which only work on the screen. This release for all its faults does two things well. One it puts pretty much all the critical driving stuff on ONE screen. You tap the car icon and all the things you need while driving are right there. There s more on that screen it s a better use of space it s clearer for first-time Tesla owners. Odds are if you want to know how do I [common car thing you do while driving] it s on that screen when you tap the car icon. If you ever use the screen to do something you can do with the steering wheel a little tutorial popup appears to tell you how you can use the knobs on the steering wheel (like if you skip forward on a music track or adjust the volume). I don t recall ever seeing that before. I think they ve got a little work to do sure. Showing dual AC controls when the AC isn t split is more confusing than not and takes up valuable space. They could allow a few more icons on the toolbar they don t need a recently used apps section and if they let us drag most common controls down there instead of just apps it would solve nearly all problems. But I think from the 30 000-foot view this update probably makes the first time Tesla experience a bit less confusing. And it seems to me with the huge number of anticipated first-time Tesla owners over the coming year or two that may have been a primary motive. | I *do* think that a number of long-time users have V9 rose-colored glasses (I know I do) and to your point yes there were a number of UX incongruencies that never really made sense in contrast to the rest of the interface—like the card for trip pressure or the Bluetooth audio device controls being awkwardly hidden in the music menu which required a non-descript swipe up. Long-time owners have discovered these oddities and 3-years of habit have internalized them as good design. It s a who moved my cheese? scenario. I also agree with you that the consolidation of controls is a step in the right direction—it s more intuitive and logical **HOWEVER ** I believe that can be done without serious regressions. There are bugs that people are harping on that will be fixed but there s really two major issues: 1. Items that used to take a single tap (wipers driver profile dash cam clip seat heaters etc.) are now buried and require 1-3 additional taps. This is fine for something that s seldom accessed or while the car is stationary but it s not acceptable for important driver functions. 2. While I agree with you that the app drawer is an obvious nod to a future app store it s inconceivably stupid to me that those items (every single last one of them not pertaining to vehicle functions) can be placed into the dock and customized while important vehicle functions remain buried in the menu. I cannot put my wiper control on the main screen but I can put Tesla Theater which doesn t even work while the car is in motion. That s ***stupid***. I don t think Tesla needs to trash the entire update. It does bring improvements to the prior design however it does so at the expense of driver controls which is antithetical to what should be the objectives of a car that only has a screen. I don t see why Tesla couldn t have a parked and drive mode—each customizable. Why permit Arcade or Theater in the dock when the vehicle is driving? Allow users to place the functions they most want (there are people that want seat heaters accessible year-round and others that have never once turned them on and would rather have something else—let the users choose!). Then when the vehicle is in park have a customizable mode that s more entertainment-focused. | I agree with this. We re new owners who hadn t gotten fully used to the old interface yet. V11 is fine. We have no issues with the change. Feels like an unpopular opinion but I don t have the gripes as many others here do. | 654 | 8 | 9,280 |
rpvjtr | 910 | V11 interface theory...it s for first-time Tesla owners more than anything. The v11 interface has plenty of stuff for long-time Tesla drivers like the blind spot camera and light show and so on but it s the interface changes that are bothering us. Perhaps the biggest complaint is that things that used to be right there on the bottom bar are now hidden in a menu (sometimes two layers deep). After using it for a bit I have a theory about why things are the way they are. With the apps being draggable that sort of makes sense...they re preparing for a future where there are more apps. Perhaps an app store or maybe just more apps and services. But with the controls I think this release is acknowledging that the new Tesla owner experience can be a little confusing and the company clearly plans for there to be a LOT of new customers over the next year or two. They re at a 1M yr run rate now and have two plants coming online in the next 3-4 months. When someone buys their first Tesla as I did a year ago it s a little confusing how some things are on the bottom bar some things are in the main car screen menu and some things are in submenus. It s not clear which controls you can work from the steering wheel and which only work on the screen. This release for all its faults does two things well. One it puts pretty much all the critical driving stuff on ONE screen. You tap the car icon and all the things you need while driving are right there. There s more on that screen it s a better use of space it s clearer for first-time Tesla owners. Odds are if you want to know how do I [common car thing you do while driving] it s on that screen when you tap the car icon. If you ever use the screen to do something you can do with the steering wheel a little tutorial popup appears to tell you how you can use the knobs on the steering wheel (like if you skip forward on a music track or adjust the volume). I don t recall ever seeing that before. I think they ve got a little work to do sure. Showing dual AC controls when the AC isn t split is more confusing than not and takes up valuable space. They could allow a few more icons on the toolbar they don t need a recently used apps section and if they let us drag most common controls down there instead of just apps it would solve nearly all problems. But I think from the 30 000-foot view this update probably makes the first time Tesla experience a bit less confusing. And it seems to me with the huge number of anticipated first-time Tesla owners over the coming year or two that may have been a primary motive. | I *do* think that a number of long-time users have V9 rose-colored glasses (I know I do) and to your point yes there were a number of UX incongruencies that never really made sense in contrast to the rest of the interface—like the card for trip pressure or the Bluetooth audio device controls being awkwardly hidden in the music menu which required a non-descript swipe up. Long-time owners have discovered these oddities and 3-years of habit have internalized them as good design. It s a who moved my cheese? scenario. I also agree with you that the consolidation of controls is a step in the right direction—it s more intuitive and logical **HOWEVER ** I believe that can be done without serious regressions. There are bugs that people are harping on that will be fixed but there s really two major issues: 1. Items that used to take a single tap (wipers driver profile dash cam clip seat heaters etc.) are now buried and require 1-3 additional taps. This is fine for something that s seldom accessed or while the car is stationary but it s not acceptable for important driver functions. 2. While I agree with you that the app drawer is an obvious nod to a future app store it s inconceivably stupid to me that those items (every single last one of them not pertaining to vehicle functions) can be placed into the dock and customized while important vehicle functions remain buried in the menu. I cannot put my wiper control on the main screen but I can put Tesla Theater which doesn t even work while the car is in motion. That s ***stupid***. I don t think Tesla needs to trash the entire update. It does bring improvements to the prior design however it does so at the expense of driver controls which is antithetical to what should be the objectives of a car that only has a screen. I don t see why Tesla couldn t have a parked and drive mode—each customizable. Why permit Arcade or Theater in the dock when the vehicle is driving? Allow users to place the functions they most want (there are people that want seat heaters accessible year-round and others that have never once turned them on and would rather have something else—let the users choose!). Then when the vehicle is in park have a customizable mode that s more entertainment-focused. | I ve seen many people complain about having the temperature control on both sides when it s not split. It s so your passenger can adjust the temperature regardless of it being split or not. Getting used to the changes is sometimes difficult (Took me a while to find the tire pressure the other day) but a lot of it is making sure you familiarize yourself before you take off the first time. | 654 | 15 | 9,281 |
rqubmy | 90 | Active Road Noise Reduction Testing Finally got ARNR activated on my car and had a chance to do some testing today. Don t expect the cones of silence but I thought it worked pretty well. It really shines on faster surface roads. At highway speeds you can see on the graph that it helps with low frequency noise but wind noise is the predominant thing you hear at those speeds so impact is noticeable. I would expect this is the kind of thing Tesla can refine over time. [https: youtu.be iq0J85TceF0](https: youtu.be iq0J85TceF0) | Well now we know... it does work and could be improved with future updates! Thanks for taking the time to do the testing and posting! | Nice video Omar! Appreciate the details and testing. | 30 | 2 | 9,282 |
rrpqsp | 523 | 1-Year Free Supercharging is Over Here Are The Numbers and What I Learned I ve had my 2021 MYLR for exactly one year now. At the time of purchase I had 1 year of free Supercharging and I definitely used it for most of my charging. I downloaded the TezLab app a few days after purchase so I could track some data. I m in Southern California where electricity and gasoline are both very expensive. Here is what the data shows (I think): Total Miles: 14 437 mi Total Energy: 4 109 kWh Avg. Energy: 285 Wh mi * 84.5% of my total energy intake was from Supercharging. * I received $1 243 in free Supercharging. * I got 110mpg and burned 130gal equivalent. * At $4.50 gal in SoCal a 50MPG car is equivalent in fuel cost if using Supercharging prices only. * Even if I paid for Supercharging I would have saved $722 compared to my previous 30mpg vehicle. * If I charged exclusively at home at the lowest rate in my area of $0.19 kWh I would save $466 over exclusively supercharging and $1 188 over a 30mpg vehicle. * Average Supercharger Max Power was 133 Kw. * Estimated max range is now 305 mi vs the original 320mi. I know Sentry Mode Pre-Conditioning Cabin Overheat protection and other systems use energy not related to the movement of the vehicle plus efficiency losses while charging. So this data isn t a perfect representation of those factors. If I didn t use those auxiliary systems I m guessing my total efficiency would be higher. I m not a numbers guy so don t be surprised if most of this info is incorrect or the calculations are wrong. A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE CAR AFTER 1 YEAR: * Not being able to charge at home blows. * Autopilot is the greatest gift to humanity. I use it 90% of the time. * I look forward to charging at superchargers. It gives me a legitimate excuse to stop get food or use the restroom or check emails texts. * I love how excited people are to see the car because they ve heard so much about it. * The car s unique quirks bring a lot of joy to people of all types. There is something for everyone to love! Fart noises movie watching drawing Santa mode megaphone great storage excellent acceleration and more. * I played the Christmas Light show for my mother who then started crying. She said she was so happy to be alive in an era where technology was capable of such things. I then started crying as well. Is this the greatest car ever made? No. But I can confidently say that it brings the most joy to the most amount of people well over any other car which feels priceless. 10 10 would buy again. Here is a link to my spreadsheet with all the data plus some fun calculations: [https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d 1Dz98898RmJGbWlAx1LaTYRDbND2Jq1Jj68lEdlRggG0 edit?usp=sharing](https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d 1Dz98898RmJGbWlAx1LaTYRDbND2Jq1Jj68lEdlRggG0 edit?usp=sharing) | Headline tomorrow: “Teslas makes mothers cry.” | Great writeup. Thanks. | 186 | 15 | 9,283 |
rrpqsp | 523 | 1-Year Free Supercharging is Over Here Are The Numbers and What I Learned I ve had my 2021 MYLR for exactly one year now. At the time of purchase I had 1 year of free Supercharging and I definitely used it for most of my charging. I downloaded the TezLab app a few days after purchase so I could track some data. I m in Southern California where electricity and gasoline are both very expensive. Here is what the data shows (I think): Total Miles: 14 437 mi Total Energy: 4 109 kWh Avg. Energy: 285 Wh mi * 84.5% of my total energy intake was from Supercharging. * I received $1 243 in free Supercharging. * I got 110mpg and burned 130gal equivalent. * At $4.50 gal in SoCal a 50MPG car is equivalent in fuel cost if using Supercharging prices only. * Even if I paid for Supercharging I would have saved $722 compared to my previous 30mpg vehicle. * If I charged exclusively at home at the lowest rate in my area of $0.19 kWh I would save $466 over exclusively supercharging and $1 188 over a 30mpg vehicle. * Average Supercharger Max Power was 133 Kw. * Estimated max range is now 305 mi vs the original 320mi. I know Sentry Mode Pre-Conditioning Cabin Overheat protection and other systems use energy not related to the movement of the vehicle plus efficiency losses while charging. So this data isn t a perfect representation of those factors. If I didn t use those auxiliary systems I m guessing my total efficiency would be higher. I m not a numbers guy so don t be surprised if most of this info is incorrect or the calculations are wrong. A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE CAR AFTER 1 YEAR: * Not being able to charge at home blows. * Autopilot is the greatest gift to humanity. I use it 90% of the time. * I look forward to charging at superchargers. It gives me a legitimate excuse to stop get food or use the restroom or check emails texts. * I love how excited people are to see the car because they ve heard so much about it. * The car s unique quirks bring a lot of joy to people of all types. There is something for everyone to love! Fart noises movie watching drawing Santa mode megaphone great storage excellent acceleration and more. * I played the Christmas Light show for my mother who then started crying. She said she was so happy to be alive in an era where technology was capable of such things. I then started crying as well. Is this the greatest car ever made? No. But I can confidently say that it brings the most joy to the most amount of people well over any other car which feels priceless. 10 10 would buy again. Here is a link to my spreadsheet with all the data plus some fun calculations: [https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d 1Dz98898RmJGbWlAx1LaTYRDbND2Jq1Jj68lEdlRggG0 edit?usp=sharing](https: docs.google.com spreadsheets d 1Dz98898RmJGbWlAx1LaTYRDbND2Jq1Jj68lEdlRggG0 edit?usp=sharing) | Excellent write-up i feel basically the same! At home charging with an EV is where the real magic is. | Great writeup. Thanks. | 105 | 15 | 9,284 |
rsg9yq | 172 | Pro Tip: You can fix trunk alignment and gaps yourself. Don t wait for a service appointment. My 2021 M3 had no panel gaps or alignment issues except for the trunk. The right side was a good 2mm too shallow… There are 4 rubber bumpers on the trunk itself and you can adjust them by either tightening or loosening each one until the trunk is aligned when closed. I loosened the two bumpers on the right one full turn and now the trunk and brake lights sit perfectly flush with the rear quarter panel. Took me 2 minutes to fix this myself. | You can but should you? The service warranty is part of the purchase. Also the more reports and service requests they get for the same issue will stand out in a quality report of some sorts and then they can focus on that to avoid in the future. If they don t know about the issue there is no issue. Report every tiny bit of factory issues. That will improve future Tesla quality. | What tool do you use tho? | 150 | 3 | 9,285 |
rsg9yq | 172 | Pro Tip: You can fix trunk alignment and gaps yourself. Don t wait for a service appointment. My 2021 M3 had no panel gaps or alignment issues except for the trunk. The right side was a good 2mm too shallow… There are 4 rubber bumpers on the trunk itself and you can adjust them by either tightening or loosening each one until the trunk is aligned when closed. I loosened the two bumpers on the right one full turn and now the trunk and brake lights sit perfectly flush with the rear quarter panel. Took me 2 minutes to fix this myself. | You can but should you? The service warranty is part of the purchase. Also the more reports and service requests they get for the same issue will stand out in a quality report of some sorts and then they can focus on that to avoid in the future. If they don t know about the issue there is no issue. Report every tiny bit of factory issues. That will improve future Tesla quality. | You paid fuckton of dollars to this company to deliver your car without quality issues. You shouldn t do it yourself just because of that. | 150 | 38 | 9,286 |
rsg9yq | 172 | Pro Tip: You can fix trunk alignment and gaps yourself. Don t wait for a service appointment. My 2021 M3 had no panel gaps or alignment issues except for the trunk. The right side was a good 2mm too shallow… There are 4 rubber bumpers on the trunk itself and you can adjust them by either tightening or loosening each one until the trunk is aligned when closed. I loosened the two bumpers on the right one full turn and now the trunk and brake lights sit perfectly flush with the rear quarter panel. Took me 2 minutes to fix this myself. | You paid fuckton of dollars to this company to deliver your car without quality issues. You shouldn t do it yourself just because of that. | What tool do you use tho? | 38 | 3 | 9,287 |
rtqfns | 138 | FYI: the Tesla recall VIN check page is case sensitive. I typed my VIN manually and used lowercase letters. Thought I wasn t affected. Later a friend that got his car at the same time as mine said he was affected. So I tried again this time copying the VIN and it had uppercase letters. Mine showed up then. https: service.tesla.com vin-recall-search | Also FYI in the SF area they don t have the parts and will cancel appts for the rear camera fix. They said they ll contact those people who are affected when they have the parts. At least that s what happened to me. | I got hit by this as well. Classic Tesla interface issue. | 50 | 4 | 9,288 |
rtqfns | 138 | FYI: the Tesla recall VIN check page is case sensitive. I typed my VIN manually and used lowercase letters. Thought I wasn t affected. Later a friend that got his car at the same time as mine said he was affected. So I tried again this time copying the VIN and it had uppercase letters. Mine showed up then. https: service.tesla.com vin-recall-search | I don t know why but it seems stupid that it s case sensitive… | I got hit by this as well. Classic Tesla interface issue. | 31 | 4 | 9,289 |
rtqfns | 138 | FYI: the Tesla recall VIN check page is case sensitive. I typed my VIN manually and used lowercase letters. Thought I wasn t affected. Later a friend that got his car at the same time as mine said he was affected. So I tried again this time copying the VIN and it had uppercase letters. Mine showed up then. https: service.tesla.com vin-recall-search | I don t know why but it seems stupid that it s case sensitive… | From the bottom of the app you can copy your VIN by long pressing it and it copies as uppercase. | 31 | 4 | 9,290 |
rttvyu | 420 | 2 year review of my Model 3 - The best car I ve ever driven in the day the worst at night Hi everyone Welcome to my 2 year review of my Model 3 Performance built around September 2019 picked up in November 2019 at Manchester-South (Knutsford) service center in the UK. Through this review I want to cover my general experience I won t be including any specific numbers as quite frankly I don t have them and nothing I paid for that was expensive felt like it was the car s fault and something I needed to keep track of. :) So... I ll sum it up into different categories these are: Charging Range Reliability Maintenance Service Center experience and Gripes. **(If you re looking for the explanation for this post s title I d jump straight to the Gripes section)** Lets start! & #x200B **Charging:** This is actually a pretty simple one. It s not a problem and never has been one. My charging is split roughly 50 50 between home charging and Supercharging. At home I have a third-party 20 meter charging cable running from a wall outlet through 2 cat flaps down my driveway then into the car. This charges at about 2.5kW I believe it takes about 16 to 20 hours to charge. For Supercharging it s generally about 25 minutes. I live near Tebay services for anyone in the UK you probably know this place and love it as much as I do I actually end up going here for a meal and charge whilst there. Usually I m just finishing my drink as I get the Supercharging nearly complete message. Perfect timing! For Supercharging away from my local area it s never been an issue. I ve road tripped my car down to Monaco this was a round trip of around 3 000 miles. For this I used entirely Superchargers and never had a single broken stall nevermind a whole broken station. In my 2 years of ownership I ve only ever experienced 2 broken Supercharger stalls extremely reliable and reduces the worries that you might arrive to a broken charger! On the other hand... The only time in my 2 years of ownership that I ve had to use something other than Superchargers was doing the North coast 500 this is a road trip around the north coast of Scotland. The only chargers on the route past a certain point are ChargePlace Scotland ones these SUCK. Every other one is either partially or completely broken it is a range-anxiety inducing nightmare. Thank god the Supercharger network is so vast that I never have to deal with this again! In my ownership I ve always charged the car at around 30% and up to 90%. Though I don t track degradation I haven t noticed any difference in range. It s probably there but if I can t notice it then there s honestly no issue. I feel this is the case for most people the vast majority aren t plotting this. I display battery remaining in percent as the miles remaining has never once been right so it s honestly utterly useless. & #x200B **Range:** Note that this is a 2019 Model 3 before the heat pump was implemented. With that said... I d say my average range in the summer is about 240 miles. If I m driving like a moron on backroads probably less. (I did buy the Performance model for a reason after all!) - On average the outside temperature in my part of the UK during the summer is about 16c. (60f) In the winter I m probably lucky to get 150 miles. This is mainly due to more rain more wind and it just generally being colder. I will say that as of recent software updates the cold barely affects my regen anymore though! I d say on average the outside temperature in my part of thje UK during winter is about 9c. (48f) When I was road-tripping through France down to Monaco it was a blistering 39c (102f!) with this my range was all the way up to around 290 to 300 miles! Amazing! Sad to say I ll never see thay in this country though... :) Regardless this range has never been an issue. I ve averaged 322wh mi over the 22 000 miles I ve driven. Even with this I still get to family who is about an hour away drive to other people s houses that are 10-15 minutes away from there and get home on a single charge quite easily. For road trips I generally stop about every 2.5 hours of driving for a 25 minute break to charge use the bathroom grab a snack stretch etc. - This is not a concern at all for me. & #x200B **Reliability:** Oh no!? Reliability!? But but but... The build quality! It must be falling apart right!? Yeahhh... No it s fine. Drivetrain has been absolutely flawless considering I launch it on literally every single drive this is usually once a day or every other day. (Launching is addictive if you ve driven on you can relate!) Durin the whole 2 years of owning the vehicle I ve never had a single issue affecting the drivability of the car. Thoigh I have had a few software issues like one showing a turn signal fault which was fixed by me getting out of the car and back in. How about the build quality though? Well... It s Fremont I don t know what you expected but it s certainly no China build. The paint is pretty thin it s getting pretty destroyed around my rear wheel arches and on the front bumper I should have got PPF really. I ll be totally honest: The China-built cars are *amazing* all the panels are aligned the paint is noticeably better and overall they have less issues according to my mobile service technician. I will say the panels are aligned fine though! Though some trim pieces were lose my mobile service tech who was coming to check a rattle went around clipping them all back in. (Covered under warranty though so I can t complain!) & #x200B **Maintenance:** Uhh... Tyres? (Tires?) I guess that s it. Moving on. & #x200B Just joking but really that is about all I ve done to the car. At around 16 000 miles I replaced both rear tyres then had to replace a rear one 500 miles later as it got a nail stuck in the edge of the tread. Don t worry they re only Michilins most expensive tyre *I m not depressed about that or anything.* (Amazing tyres though! Well worth the price for the traction they provide!) I ve topped up the windwhield washer fluid maybe twice the tank for it is HUGE and lasts forever. No need to change the wipers yet still going strong with no streaking at all. & #x200B Here s a run down of my service center visits or mobile service visits: \\- Interior trim rattle. (Covered under Goodwill free) \\- Passenger window replacement. (£110 I believe? Mobile service was covered under Goodwill . The window got scratched all the way up by a rock that got stuck in the seal - On this same visit they also checked the power steering harness for any water ingress and re-enforced it as that s apparently a known issue on my age of car) \\- Tail light replacement. (Due to condensation I didn t really care about this as it clears after driving a little but my dad kept bringing it up every other day he d visit so alas... It got fixed. Covered under warranty mobile service under Goodwill so all free!) \\- Headlight alignment. (Covered under Goodwill free. I ll explain this more in the Gripes section as it s quite an annoying and long story - Whilst at the service center they also re-lubricated the upper control arm joints and re-sealed them this was to avoid a potential squeaking issue apparently) & #x200B **Service Center experience:** As I work from home and largely drive my car for fun more than anything productive some of the visits I made to the service center were simply to get out of the house and do something useful for once some could have been mobile service instead. Though... Every time I ve been to the service center it has been a great experience. Tea Coffee and some snacks to eat whilst you wait. The service center sales staff are great and love to have a nerd out about Tesla stuff. When I was in for my headlight alignment I was chatting about FSD Beta with them and we were both nerding out about wanting to try the yoke steering and expressing our concerns about parking with it of course. We came to the conclusion it d be fun to try at least. :) Upon collecting the car there s always a friendly person from the service department who comes and explains what was done and is always happy to explain anything in detail if needed. For mobile service I ve had the same guy each time I gave him hand holding stuff whilst he was working and got to have a fun chat with him about my road trip around France and he was telling me about places he was planning to stay in my local area and about his own personal Model S 100D that had been into an accident when someone side-swiped him. Overall... I ve never had any poor experiences at my local service center. They re a great bunch of people and whilst I was in for headlight alignment (On the 24th December!) I overheard that they d got a bunch of gifts from customers. I d thought about bringing one but didn t want to seem weird! I guess I was the odd one out by not bringing one instead. :) & #x200B **Gripes:** Alright... So this is the part you re probably looking for the explanation to the title. In the daytime I absolutely love the car and it s a joy to drive. Great fun on backroads absolutely smokes anything on the road and the acceleration kinda makes me want to throw up but in a good way! In the night time... Ugh... It feels like any minute I could crash and not even realise I was about to hit anything. Lets split this up into the 3 main causes of that: Headlights auto high beam automatic wipers. & #x200B Gripe 1 - Headlights: I ve seen on US videos that the headlight alignment is basically straight ahead there s not really many headlight laws there. It s just a free-for-all with hopes that anyone can see the road through the glare or you just buy a bigger vehicle than everyone else and screw over anyone in a smaller car by blinding them instead of them blinding you. **Nice.** In Europe... We re a bit more civilized and opt to use technology instead of simply pointing the headlights higher. (Apparently US laws are changing to allow some of this tech some time soon?) So lets do a quick comparison of 2 cars to show part of the issue here. My 2019 Model 3 Performance (£52 000!) versus my dad s 2014 Peugeot 308 (Like £30 000 new?) Tesla vs Peugeot... Fight! Peugeot the cheap French brand: Headlights adjust based on the angle of the vehicle have a very strict beam pattern so they can shine as far out as possible and as high as possible without affecting other drivers spotlights (Fog lights) turn on to see around corners better headlights generally have lots of spread so visibility to the sides is generally great. Tesla the premium brand: Headlights are static so they have to be pointed lower as not to blind people when going up a hill beam pattern is not strict at all so they need to be pointed lower to not blind others headlights have pretty terrible visibility around corners as they have little spread and don t adjust for corners at all or turn on the fog lights for corners. I really don t get it... 2019 and this is the state of the headlights...? I understand in the US these got some kind of award for being great...? Did they not bother to research the European market before releasing the Model 3 here? Now here s the really annoying part: *The headlights don t stay in the same place each drive.* Lets say you manually adjust the headlights to be higher up so they shine at people s number plates instead of literally 1 car length ahead (No joke this is what I had before manual alignment and what Tesla just aligned it back to) you d think the whole point of headlight alignment is to align them right? Wrong! Get out of the car get back in and they ll move to another position. Maybe they point at the ground and you can t see anything whilst driving maybe they point to the sky and cause everyone to flash their headlights at you. Who knows!? Lets spin the Wheel of fortune to find out! See TeslaMotorsClub forum in the UK section for a bunch of people complaining about this same experience. I imagine it s a software bug maybe some kind of gyro-drift causes it? Who knows either way it needs fixing. It s annoying for other drivers and annoying dangerous for myself. **EDIT:** Here s a picture of the low beam versus high beam this is 1 day after Tesla aligned them. Go watch a US video of a Model 3 and compaare you ll see my problem pretty fast. :) [https: imgur.com a 2jE7E5D](https: imgur.com a 2jE7E5D) **UPDATE:** Of what I ve gathered from comments people in Europe largely agree with the statements I made here whereas US users do not. To be clear... These issues mentioned here are caused by the EU headlight alignment and lack of advanced headlight features that are common amongst other vehicles sold in the EU and UK. Manual alignment could resolve this issue but it has a software bug that causes it to reset the alignment when entering the vehicle on a slope. & #x200B Grip 2 - Auto high beam: If I wasn t a software engineer and understood the issue a bit better I d assume they trained the auto high beam model on images of retroreflective signs instead of car headlights. How is it that on a single drive the high beam can turn off for EVERY sign at the side of the road but not a single car until they ve already flashed their lights at me? Some people say it has improved with the FSD Beta. Maybe improved vehicle detection has helped with this I m not sure what the underlying logic is but right now it s absolutely horrible. This combined with the broken European headlight alignment means I can come around a corner then suddenly go from seeing 10 car lengths ahead to literally 1. This is absolutely terrifying if you re doing 60mph around a corner then it suddenly sees the sharp corner arrow signs and turns off your lights mid-turn. I ve turned off auto high beams now as it s frankly more problematic than it is useful. When there s a lead vehicle it does a great job at turning off for them just a horrible job at everything else it needs to do... :( & #x200B Gripe 3 - Auto wipers: Lastly... The cherry on top! Camera-based automatic wipers. Credit where it s due in the day these work great and I only have to push the manual wipe button once or twice per drive if that. In the day they work far better than ones in the vast majority of other cars regularly getting just the right amount of wiping to not be annoying. At night... I mean... How do you know the difference between rain and just a black sky? This seems like a major oversight. I live in a rural area in the UK where there s no street lighting for the most part and very low light pollusion. Dark is very dark. The autowipers simply don t work in the dark. Once you get street lighting they start functioning pretty well again but 90% of the time you re sat there trying to drive whilst spamming the manual wipe button as you don t have time to look away from the road to use the on-screen buttons for changing wiper speed. (Why doesn t this use the scroll wheels like in the refresh S X? This makes 10000x more sense!) & #x200B Conclusion of the gripes: As a result of the above gripes... Here s my general night time driving experience if it s raining: \\- I can see 1 car length ahead with the low beam. \\- Every corner I approach causes the auto high beam to flash off for several seconds then back on making that 1 car length all I can see. On roads I don t know well this makes the corner kind of jump scare you as the high beam turns on you re doing 50 still into a sharper than you could see turn. \\- Oh there s a car approaching? All I can see is RAIN let me keep spamming the manual wipe button whilst threading the needle with the 1 car length of lights I have and trying to slap the wiper speed I want on the screen. Heaven forbid there s any road debrid pedestrians dogs or anything else I need to see ahead of me. (Voice commands aren t fast enough to use really) Honestly... I m not being extreme herre. It s dangerous and stupid. It makes absolutely no sense to me why these issues haven t been a higher focus. I guess because the main software engineers are in sunny California where everything is already lit and corners are just 90 degree intersections? I really don t know but they **seriously** need to focus on Europe. Really hope Elon s so called improvements for Europe coming in March are actually helpful. & #x200B **Overall conclusion:** Against what the gripes might suggest... I absolutely love my Model 3 Performance. It handles great the sound system is great the charging network is great. Never drive at night? You re golden not a problem at all for you. But me? I drive at night a lot I work with a lot of Americans so my day starts at like 4PM and most of my driving is in the dark. Regardless of the gripes... I d still highly recommend the car to anyone! I just wish Tesla would focus their efforts in places that are important for other countries (and other states...) it seems like Europe is largely forgotten unfortunately with the software becoming more crippled over time with no real improvements in sight. Don t get me wrong I absolutely love the updates like the blind spot camera live sentry mode camera access the various cold weather improvements and the general ease of ownership and the service experience. My 2 years of ownership have been amazing there s just a few things that are extremely questionable. :) & #x200B Thanks for reading my review! I hope it doesn t come across too harsh! Let me know if you have any questions or if you have experienced any of these issues yourself. I d love to discuss this and know if the newer Model 3 s with the new headlight design experience similar issues in the dark. :) & #x200B **EDIT:** An absolute legend u allegory_corey has figured out the cause of my headlight alignment issues. They are lower in the EU in general but especially low as I park on sloped ground. It seems like Tesla is using some suspension travel sensors to determine the weight of the vehicle if the rear is squatting down more than the front then it must be heay right? Or *it s just parked on a slope.* His solution is to drive onto flat ground open then close the door then the headlights will re-align themselves back to the correct alignment. This is pretty clearly a software bug. Please someone at Tesla look into this. :) | Auto high beam is unusable for me. Every sizable sign reflects light and they go out and then back on. It s embarrassing. | You ve sum up my own experience. I had the car for a few weeks now to replace my old Range Rover L322 and driving by night is just painful. The light beams are way too dim and even with the high-beams on it s hard to see further than half of what I saw before. I also own a Honda-E a small inexpensive city car with LED lights and head to head the Honda is a league above in this regard. Maybe did they fix that with the 2021 version of the TM3 ? | 81 | 11 | 9,291 |
rttvyu | 420 | 2 year review of my Model 3 - The best car I ve ever driven in the day the worst at night Hi everyone Welcome to my 2 year review of my Model 3 Performance built around September 2019 picked up in November 2019 at Manchester-South (Knutsford) service center in the UK. Through this review I want to cover my general experience I won t be including any specific numbers as quite frankly I don t have them and nothing I paid for that was expensive felt like it was the car s fault and something I needed to keep track of. :) So... I ll sum it up into different categories these are: Charging Range Reliability Maintenance Service Center experience and Gripes. **(If you re looking for the explanation for this post s title I d jump straight to the Gripes section)** Lets start! & #x200B **Charging:** This is actually a pretty simple one. It s not a problem and never has been one. My charging is split roughly 50 50 between home charging and Supercharging. At home I have a third-party 20 meter charging cable running from a wall outlet through 2 cat flaps down my driveway then into the car. This charges at about 2.5kW I believe it takes about 16 to 20 hours to charge. For Supercharging it s generally about 25 minutes. I live near Tebay services for anyone in the UK you probably know this place and love it as much as I do I actually end up going here for a meal and charge whilst there. Usually I m just finishing my drink as I get the Supercharging nearly complete message. Perfect timing! For Supercharging away from my local area it s never been an issue. I ve road tripped my car down to Monaco this was a round trip of around 3 000 miles. For this I used entirely Superchargers and never had a single broken stall nevermind a whole broken station. In my 2 years of ownership I ve only ever experienced 2 broken Supercharger stalls extremely reliable and reduces the worries that you might arrive to a broken charger! On the other hand... The only time in my 2 years of ownership that I ve had to use something other than Superchargers was doing the North coast 500 this is a road trip around the north coast of Scotland. The only chargers on the route past a certain point are ChargePlace Scotland ones these SUCK. Every other one is either partially or completely broken it is a range-anxiety inducing nightmare. Thank god the Supercharger network is so vast that I never have to deal with this again! In my ownership I ve always charged the car at around 30% and up to 90%. Though I don t track degradation I haven t noticed any difference in range. It s probably there but if I can t notice it then there s honestly no issue. I feel this is the case for most people the vast majority aren t plotting this. I display battery remaining in percent as the miles remaining has never once been right so it s honestly utterly useless. & #x200B **Range:** Note that this is a 2019 Model 3 before the heat pump was implemented. With that said... I d say my average range in the summer is about 240 miles. If I m driving like a moron on backroads probably less. (I did buy the Performance model for a reason after all!) - On average the outside temperature in my part of the UK during the summer is about 16c. (60f) In the winter I m probably lucky to get 150 miles. This is mainly due to more rain more wind and it just generally being colder. I will say that as of recent software updates the cold barely affects my regen anymore though! I d say on average the outside temperature in my part of thje UK during winter is about 9c. (48f) When I was road-tripping through France down to Monaco it was a blistering 39c (102f!) with this my range was all the way up to around 290 to 300 miles! Amazing! Sad to say I ll never see thay in this country though... :) Regardless this range has never been an issue. I ve averaged 322wh mi over the 22 000 miles I ve driven. Even with this I still get to family who is about an hour away drive to other people s houses that are 10-15 minutes away from there and get home on a single charge quite easily. For road trips I generally stop about every 2.5 hours of driving for a 25 minute break to charge use the bathroom grab a snack stretch etc. - This is not a concern at all for me. & #x200B **Reliability:** Oh no!? Reliability!? But but but... The build quality! It must be falling apart right!? Yeahhh... No it s fine. Drivetrain has been absolutely flawless considering I launch it on literally every single drive this is usually once a day or every other day. (Launching is addictive if you ve driven on you can relate!) Durin the whole 2 years of owning the vehicle I ve never had a single issue affecting the drivability of the car. Thoigh I have had a few software issues like one showing a turn signal fault which was fixed by me getting out of the car and back in. How about the build quality though? Well... It s Fremont I don t know what you expected but it s certainly no China build. The paint is pretty thin it s getting pretty destroyed around my rear wheel arches and on the front bumper I should have got PPF really. I ll be totally honest: The China-built cars are *amazing* all the panels are aligned the paint is noticeably better and overall they have less issues according to my mobile service technician. I will say the panels are aligned fine though! Though some trim pieces were lose my mobile service tech who was coming to check a rattle went around clipping them all back in. (Covered under warranty though so I can t complain!) & #x200B **Maintenance:** Uhh... Tyres? (Tires?) I guess that s it. Moving on. & #x200B Just joking but really that is about all I ve done to the car. At around 16 000 miles I replaced both rear tyres then had to replace a rear one 500 miles later as it got a nail stuck in the edge of the tread. Don t worry they re only Michilins most expensive tyre *I m not depressed about that or anything.* (Amazing tyres though! Well worth the price for the traction they provide!) I ve topped up the windwhield washer fluid maybe twice the tank for it is HUGE and lasts forever. No need to change the wipers yet still going strong with no streaking at all. & #x200B Here s a run down of my service center visits or mobile service visits: \\- Interior trim rattle. (Covered under Goodwill free) \\- Passenger window replacement. (£110 I believe? Mobile service was covered under Goodwill . The window got scratched all the way up by a rock that got stuck in the seal - On this same visit they also checked the power steering harness for any water ingress and re-enforced it as that s apparently a known issue on my age of car) \\- Tail light replacement. (Due to condensation I didn t really care about this as it clears after driving a little but my dad kept bringing it up every other day he d visit so alas... It got fixed. Covered under warranty mobile service under Goodwill so all free!) \\- Headlight alignment. (Covered under Goodwill free. I ll explain this more in the Gripes section as it s quite an annoying and long story - Whilst at the service center they also re-lubricated the upper control arm joints and re-sealed them this was to avoid a potential squeaking issue apparently) & #x200B **Service Center experience:** As I work from home and largely drive my car for fun more than anything productive some of the visits I made to the service center were simply to get out of the house and do something useful for once some could have been mobile service instead. Though... Every time I ve been to the service center it has been a great experience. Tea Coffee and some snacks to eat whilst you wait. The service center sales staff are great and love to have a nerd out about Tesla stuff. When I was in for my headlight alignment I was chatting about FSD Beta with them and we were both nerding out about wanting to try the yoke steering and expressing our concerns about parking with it of course. We came to the conclusion it d be fun to try at least. :) Upon collecting the car there s always a friendly person from the service department who comes and explains what was done and is always happy to explain anything in detail if needed. For mobile service I ve had the same guy each time I gave him hand holding stuff whilst he was working and got to have a fun chat with him about my road trip around France and he was telling me about places he was planning to stay in my local area and about his own personal Model S 100D that had been into an accident when someone side-swiped him. Overall... I ve never had any poor experiences at my local service center. They re a great bunch of people and whilst I was in for headlight alignment (On the 24th December!) I overheard that they d got a bunch of gifts from customers. I d thought about bringing one but didn t want to seem weird! I guess I was the odd one out by not bringing one instead. :) & #x200B **Gripes:** Alright... So this is the part you re probably looking for the explanation to the title. In the daytime I absolutely love the car and it s a joy to drive. Great fun on backroads absolutely smokes anything on the road and the acceleration kinda makes me want to throw up but in a good way! In the night time... Ugh... It feels like any minute I could crash and not even realise I was about to hit anything. Lets split this up into the 3 main causes of that: Headlights auto high beam automatic wipers. & #x200B Gripe 1 - Headlights: I ve seen on US videos that the headlight alignment is basically straight ahead there s not really many headlight laws there. It s just a free-for-all with hopes that anyone can see the road through the glare or you just buy a bigger vehicle than everyone else and screw over anyone in a smaller car by blinding them instead of them blinding you. **Nice.** In Europe... We re a bit more civilized and opt to use technology instead of simply pointing the headlights higher. (Apparently US laws are changing to allow some of this tech some time soon?) So lets do a quick comparison of 2 cars to show part of the issue here. My 2019 Model 3 Performance (£52 000!) versus my dad s 2014 Peugeot 308 (Like £30 000 new?) Tesla vs Peugeot... Fight! Peugeot the cheap French brand: Headlights adjust based on the angle of the vehicle have a very strict beam pattern so they can shine as far out as possible and as high as possible without affecting other drivers spotlights (Fog lights) turn on to see around corners better headlights generally have lots of spread so visibility to the sides is generally great. Tesla the premium brand: Headlights are static so they have to be pointed lower as not to blind people when going up a hill beam pattern is not strict at all so they need to be pointed lower to not blind others headlights have pretty terrible visibility around corners as they have little spread and don t adjust for corners at all or turn on the fog lights for corners. I really don t get it... 2019 and this is the state of the headlights...? I understand in the US these got some kind of award for being great...? Did they not bother to research the European market before releasing the Model 3 here? Now here s the really annoying part: *The headlights don t stay in the same place each drive.* Lets say you manually adjust the headlights to be higher up so they shine at people s number plates instead of literally 1 car length ahead (No joke this is what I had before manual alignment and what Tesla just aligned it back to) you d think the whole point of headlight alignment is to align them right? Wrong! Get out of the car get back in and they ll move to another position. Maybe they point at the ground and you can t see anything whilst driving maybe they point to the sky and cause everyone to flash their headlights at you. Who knows!? Lets spin the Wheel of fortune to find out! See TeslaMotorsClub forum in the UK section for a bunch of people complaining about this same experience. I imagine it s a software bug maybe some kind of gyro-drift causes it? Who knows either way it needs fixing. It s annoying for other drivers and annoying dangerous for myself. **EDIT:** Here s a picture of the low beam versus high beam this is 1 day after Tesla aligned them. Go watch a US video of a Model 3 and compaare you ll see my problem pretty fast. :) [https: imgur.com a 2jE7E5D](https: imgur.com a 2jE7E5D) **UPDATE:** Of what I ve gathered from comments people in Europe largely agree with the statements I made here whereas US users do not. To be clear... These issues mentioned here are caused by the EU headlight alignment and lack of advanced headlight features that are common amongst other vehicles sold in the EU and UK. Manual alignment could resolve this issue but it has a software bug that causes it to reset the alignment when entering the vehicle on a slope. & #x200B Grip 2 - Auto high beam: If I wasn t a software engineer and understood the issue a bit better I d assume they trained the auto high beam model on images of retroreflective signs instead of car headlights. How is it that on a single drive the high beam can turn off for EVERY sign at the side of the road but not a single car until they ve already flashed their lights at me? Some people say it has improved with the FSD Beta. Maybe improved vehicle detection has helped with this I m not sure what the underlying logic is but right now it s absolutely horrible. This combined with the broken European headlight alignment means I can come around a corner then suddenly go from seeing 10 car lengths ahead to literally 1. This is absolutely terrifying if you re doing 60mph around a corner then it suddenly sees the sharp corner arrow signs and turns off your lights mid-turn. I ve turned off auto high beams now as it s frankly more problematic than it is useful. When there s a lead vehicle it does a great job at turning off for them just a horrible job at everything else it needs to do... :( & #x200B Gripe 3 - Auto wipers: Lastly... The cherry on top! Camera-based automatic wipers. Credit where it s due in the day these work great and I only have to push the manual wipe button once or twice per drive if that. In the day they work far better than ones in the vast majority of other cars regularly getting just the right amount of wiping to not be annoying. At night... I mean... How do you know the difference between rain and just a black sky? This seems like a major oversight. I live in a rural area in the UK where there s no street lighting for the most part and very low light pollusion. Dark is very dark. The autowipers simply don t work in the dark. Once you get street lighting they start functioning pretty well again but 90% of the time you re sat there trying to drive whilst spamming the manual wipe button as you don t have time to look away from the road to use the on-screen buttons for changing wiper speed. (Why doesn t this use the scroll wheels like in the refresh S X? This makes 10000x more sense!) & #x200B Conclusion of the gripes: As a result of the above gripes... Here s my general night time driving experience if it s raining: \\- I can see 1 car length ahead with the low beam. \\- Every corner I approach causes the auto high beam to flash off for several seconds then back on making that 1 car length all I can see. On roads I don t know well this makes the corner kind of jump scare you as the high beam turns on you re doing 50 still into a sharper than you could see turn. \\- Oh there s a car approaching? All I can see is RAIN let me keep spamming the manual wipe button whilst threading the needle with the 1 car length of lights I have and trying to slap the wiper speed I want on the screen. Heaven forbid there s any road debrid pedestrians dogs or anything else I need to see ahead of me. (Voice commands aren t fast enough to use really) Honestly... I m not being extreme herre. It s dangerous and stupid. It makes absolutely no sense to me why these issues haven t been a higher focus. I guess because the main software engineers are in sunny California where everything is already lit and corners are just 90 degree intersections? I really don t know but they **seriously** need to focus on Europe. Really hope Elon s so called improvements for Europe coming in March are actually helpful. & #x200B **Overall conclusion:** Against what the gripes might suggest... I absolutely love my Model 3 Performance. It handles great the sound system is great the charging network is great. Never drive at night? You re golden not a problem at all for you. But me? I drive at night a lot I work with a lot of Americans so my day starts at like 4PM and most of my driving is in the dark. Regardless of the gripes... I d still highly recommend the car to anyone! I just wish Tesla would focus their efforts in places that are important for other countries (and other states...) it seems like Europe is largely forgotten unfortunately with the software becoming more crippled over time with no real improvements in sight. Don t get me wrong I absolutely love the updates like the blind spot camera live sentry mode camera access the various cold weather improvements and the general ease of ownership and the service experience. My 2 years of ownership have been amazing there s just a few things that are extremely questionable. :) & #x200B Thanks for reading my review! I hope it doesn t come across too harsh! Let me know if you have any questions or if you have experienced any of these issues yourself. I d love to discuss this and know if the newer Model 3 s with the new headlight design experience similar issues in the dark. :) & #x200B **EDIT:** An absolute legend u allegory_corey has figured out the cause of my headlight alignment issues. They are lower in the EU in general but especially low as I park on sloped ground. It seems like Tesla is using some suspension travel sensors to determine the weight of the vehicle if the rear is squatting down more than the front then it must be heay right? Or *it s just parked on a slope.* His solution is to drive onto flat ground open then close the door then the headlights will re-align themselves back to the correct alignment. This is pretty clearly a software bug. Please someone at Tesla look into this. :) | Auto high beam is unusable for me. Every sizable sign reflects light and they go out and then back on. It s embarrassing. | Great review. Maybe UK specific for some issues. But Auto High Beams and moreso Auto Wipers AT NIGHT need serious attention! | 81 | 28 | 9,292 |
rttvyu | 420 | 2 year review of my Model 3 - The best car I ve ever driven in the day the worst at night Hi everyone Welcome to my 2 year review of my Model 3 Performance built around September 2019 picked up in November 2019 at Manchester-South (Knutsford) service center in the UK. Through this review I want to cover my general experience I won t be including any specific numbers as quite frankly I don t have them and nothing I paid for that was expensive felt like it was the car s fault and something I needed to keep track of. :) So... I ll sum it up into different categories these are: Charging Range Reliability Maintenance Service Center experience and Gripes. **(If you re looking for the explanation for this post s title I d jump straight to the Gripes section)** Lets start! & #x200B **Charging:** This is actually a pretty simple one. It s not a problem and never has been one. My charging is split roughly 50 50 between home charging and Supercharging. At home I have a third-party 20 meter charging cable running from a wall outlet through 2 cat flaps down my driveway then into the car. This charges at about 2.5kW I believe it takes about 16 to 20 hours to charge. For Supercharging it s generally about 25 minutes. I live near Tebay services for anyone in the UK you probably know this place and love it as much as I do I actually end up going here for a meal and charge whilst there. Usually I m just finishing my drink as I get the Supercharging nearly complete message. Perfect timing! For Supercharging away from my local area it s never been an issue. I ve road tripped my car down to Monaco this was a round trip of around 3 000 miles. For this I used entirely Superchargers and never had a single broken stall nevermind a whole broken station. In my 2 years of ownership I ve only ever experienced 2 broken Supercharger stalls extremely reliable and reduces the worries that you might arrive to a broken charger! On the other hand... The only time in my 2 years of ownership that I ve had to use something other than Superchargers was doing the North coast 500 this is a road trip around the north coast of Scotland. The only chargers on the route past a certain point are ChargePlace Scotland ones these SUCK. Every other one is either partially or completely broken it is a range-anxiety inducing nightmare. Thank god the Supercharger network is so vast that I never have to deal with this again! In my ownership I ve always charged the car at around 30% and up to 90%. Though I don t track degradation I haven t noticed any difference in range. It s probably there but if I can t notice it then there s honestly no issue. I feel this is the case for most people the vast majority aren t plotting this. I display battery remaining in percent as the miles remaining has never once been right so it s honestly utterly useless. & #x200B **Range:** Note that this is a 2019 Model 3 before the heat pump was implemented. With that said... I d say my average range in the summer is about 240 miles. If I m driving like a moron on backroads probably less. (I did buy the Performance model for a reason after all!) - On average the outside temperature in my part of the UK during the summer is about 16c. (60f) In the winter I m probably lucky to get 150 miles. This is mainly due to more rain more wind and it just generally being colder. I will say that as of recent software updates the cold barely affects my regen anymore though! I d say on average the outside temperature in my part of thje UK during winter is about 9c. (48f) When I was road-tripping through France down to Monaco it was a blistering 39c (102f!) with this my range was all the way up to around 290 to 300 miles! Amazing! Sad to say I ll never see thay in this country though... :) Regardless this range has never been an issue. I ve averaged 322wh mi over the 22 000 miles I ve driven. Even with this I still get to family who is about an hour away drive to other people s houses that are 10-15 minutes away from there and get home on a single charge quite easily. For road trips I generally stop about every 2.5 hours of driving for a 25 minute break to charge use the bathroom grab a snack stretch etc. - This is not a concern at all for me. & #x200B **Reliability:** Oh no!? Reliability!? But but but... The build quality! It must be falling apart right!? Yeahhh... No it s fine. Drivetrain has been absolutely flawless considering I launch it on literally every single drive this is usually once a day or every other day. (Launching is addictive if you ve driven on you can relate!) Durin the whole 2 years of owning the vehicle I ve never had a single issue affecting the drivability of the car. Thoigh I have had a few software issues like one showing a turn signal fault which was fixed by me getting out of the car and back in. How about the build quality though? Well... It s Fremont I don t know what you expected but it s certainly no China build. The paint is pretty thin it s getting pretty destroyed around my rear wheel arches and on the front bumper I should have got PPF really. I ll be totally honest: The China-built cars are *amazing* all the panels are aligned the paint is noticeably better and overall they have less issues according to my mobile service technician. I will say the panels are aligned fine though! Though some trim pieces were lose my mobile service tech who was coming to check a rattle went around clipping them all back in. (Covered under warranty though so I can t complain!) & #x200B **Maintenance:** Uhh... Tyres? (Tires?) I guess that s it. Moving on. & #x200B Just joking but really that is about all I ve done to the car. At around 16 000 miles I replaced both rear tyres then had to replace a rear one 500 miles later as it got a nail stuck in the edge of the tread. Don t worry they re only Michilins most expensive tyre *I m not depressed about that or anything.* (Amazing tyres though! Well worth the price for the traction they provide!) I ve topped up the windwhield washer fluid maybe twice the tank for it is HUGE and lasts forever. No need to change the wipers yet still going strong with no streaking at all. & #x200B Here s a run down of my service center visits or mobile service visits: \\- Interior trim rattle. (Covered under Goodwill free) \\- Passenger window replacement. (£110 I believe? Mobile service was covered under Goodwill . The window got scratched all the way up by a rock that got stuck in the seal - On this same visit they also checked the power steering harness for any water ingress and re-enforced it as that s apparently a known issue on my age of car) \\- Tail light replacement. (Due to condensation I didn t really care about this as it clears after driving a little but my dad kept bringing it up every other day he d visit so alas... It got fixed. Covered under warranty mobile service under Goodwill so all free!) \\- Headlight alignment. (Covered under Goodwill free. I ll explain this more in the Gripes section as it s quite an annoying and long story - Whilst at the service center they also re-lubricated the upper control arm joints and re-sealed them this was to avoid a potential squeaking issue apparently) & #x200B **Service Center experience:** As I work from home and largely drive my car for fun more than anything productive some of the visits I made to the service center were simply to get out of the house and do something useful for once some could have been mobile service instead. Though... Every time I ve been to the service center it has been a great experience. Tea Coffee and some snacks to eat whilst you wait. The service center sales staff are great and love to have a nerd out about Tesla stuff. When I was in for my headlight alignment I was chatting about FSD Beta with them and we were both nerding out about wanting to try the yoke steering and expressing our concerns about parking with it of course. We came to the conclusion it d be fun to try at least. :) Upon collecting the car there s always a friendly person from the service department who comes and explains what was done and is always happy to explain anything in detail if needed. For mobile service I ve had the same guy each time I gave him hand holding stuff whilst he was working and got to have a fun chat with him about my road trip around France and he was telling me about places he was planning to stay in my local area and about his own personal Model S 100D that had been into an accident when someone side-swiped him. Overall... I ve never had any poor experiences at my local service center. They re a great bunch of people and whilst I was in for headlight alignment (On the 24th December!) I overheard that they d got a bunch of gifts from customers. I d thought about bringing one but didn t want to seem weird! I guess I was the odd one out by not bringing one instead. :) & #x200B **Gripes:** Alright... So this is the part you re probably looking for the explanation to the title. In the daytime I absolutely love the car and it s a joy to drive. Great fun on backroads absolutely smokes anything on the road and the acceleration kinda makes me want to throw up but in a good way! In the night time... Ugh... It feels like any minute I could crash and not even realise I was about to hit anything. Lets split this up into the 3 main causes of that: Headlights auto high beam automatic wipers. & #x200B Gripe 1 - Headlights: I ve seen on US videos that the headlight alignment is basically straight ahead there s not really many headlight laws there. It s just a free-for-all with hopes that anyone can see the road through the glare or you just buy a bigger vehicle than everyone else and screw over anyone in a smaller car by blinding them instead of them blinding you. **Nice.** In Europe... We re a bit more civilized and opt to use technology instead of simply pointing the headlights higher. (Apparently US laws are changing to allow some of this tech some time soon?) So lets do a quick comparison of 2 cars to show part of the issue here. My 2019 Model 3 Performance (£52 000!) versus my dad s 2014 Peugeot 308 (Like £30 000 new?) Tesla vs Peugeot... Fight! Peugeot the cheap French brand: Headlights adjust based on the angle of the vehicle have a very strict beam pattern so they can shine as far out as possible and as high as possible without affecting other drivers spotlights (Fog lights) turn on to see around corners better headlights generally have lots of spread so visibility to the sides is generally great. Tesla the premium brand: Headlights are static so they have to be pointed lower as not to blind people when going up a hill beam pattern is not strict at all so they need to be pointed lower to not blind others headlights have pretty terrible visibility around corners as they have little spread and don t adjust for corners at all or turn on the fog lights for corners. I really don t get it... 2019 and this is the state of the headlights...? I understand in the US these got some kind of award for being great...? Did they not bother to research the European market before releasing the Model 3 here? Now here s the really annoying part: *The headlights don t stay in the same place each drive.* Lets say you manually adjust the headlights to be higher up so they shine at people s number plates instead of literally 1 car length ahead (No joke this is what I had before manual alignment and what Tesla just aligned it back to) you d think the whole point of headlight alignment is to align them right? Wrong! Get out of the car get back in and they ll move to another position. Maybe they point at the ground and you can t see anything whilst driving maybe they point to the sky and cause everyone to flash their headlights at you. Who knows!? Lets spin the Wheel of fortune to find out! See TeslaMotorsClub forum in the UK section for a bunch of people complaining about this same experience. I imagine it s a software bug maybe some kind of gyro-drift causes it? Who knows either way it needs fixing. It s annoying for other drivers and annoying dangerous for myself. **EDIT:** Here s a picture of the low beam versus high beam this is 1 day after Tesla aligned them. Go watch a US video of a Model 3 and compaare you ll see my problem pretty fast. :) [https: imgur.com a 2jE7E5D](https: imgur.com a 2jE7E5D) **UPDATE:** Of what I ve gathered from comments people in Europe largely agree with the statements I made here whereas US users do not. To be clear... These issues mentioned here are caused by the EU headlight alignment and lack of advanced headlight features that are common amongst other vehicles sold in the EU and UK. Manual alignment could resolve this issue but it has a software bug that causes it to reset the alignment when entering the vehicle on a slope. & #x200B Grip 2 - Auto high beam: If I wasn t a software engineer and understood the issue a bit better I d assume they trained the auto high beam model on images of retroreflective signs instead of car headlights. How is it that on a single drive the high beam can turn off for EVERY sign at the side of the road but not a single car until they ve already flashed their lights at me? Some people say it has improved with the FSD Beta. Maybe improved vehicle detection has helped with this I m not sure what the underlying logic is but right now it s absolutely horrible. This combined with the broken European headlight alignment means I can come around a corner then suddenly go from seeing 10 car lengths ahead to literally 1. This is absolutely terrifying if you re doing 60mph around a corner then it suddenly sees the sharp corner arrow signs and turns off your lights mid-turn. I ve turned off auto high beams now as it s frankly more problematic than it is useful. When there s a lead vehicle it does a great job at turning off for them just a horrible job at everything else it needs to do... :( & #x200B Gripe 3 - Auto wipers: Lastly... The cherry on top! Camera-based automatic wipers. Credit where it s due in the day these work great and I only have to push the manual wipe button once or twice per drive if that. In the day they work far better than ones in the vast majority of other cars regularly getting just the right amount of wiping to not be annoying. At night... I mean... How do you know the difference between rain and just a black sky? This seems like a major oversight. I live in a rural area in the UK where there s no street lighting for the most part and very low light pollusion. Dark is very dark. The autowipers simply don t work in the dark. Once you get street lighting they start functioning pretty well again but 90% of the time you re sat there trying to drive whilst spamming the manual wipe button as you don t have time to look away from the road to use the on-screen buttons for changing wiper speed. (Why doesn t this use the scroll wheels like in the refresh S X? This makes 10000x more sense!) & #x200B Conclusion of the gripes: As a result of the above gripes... Here s my general night time driving experience if it s raining: \\- I can see 1 car length ahead with the low beam. \\- Every corner I approach causes the auto high beam to flash off for several seconds then back on making that 1 car length all I can see. On roads I don t know well this makes the corner kind of jump scare you as the high beam turns on you re doing 50 still into a sharper than you could see turn. \\- Oh there s a car approaching? All I can see is RAIN let me keep spamming the manual wipe button whilst threading the needle with the 1 car length of lights I have and trying to slap the wiper speed I want on the screen. Heaven forbid there s any road debrid pedestrians dogs or anything else I need to see ahead of me. (Voice commands aren t fast enough to use really) Honestly... I m not being extreme herre. It s dangerous and stupid. It makes absolutely no sense to me why these issues haven t been a higher focus. I guess because the main software engineers are in sunny California where everything is already lit and corners are just 90 degree intersections? I really don t know but they **seriously** need to focus on Europe. Really hope Elon s so called improvements for Europe coming in March are actually helpful. & #x200B **Overall conclusion:** Against what the gripes might suggest... I absolutely love my Model 3 Performance. It handles great the sound system is great the charging network is great. Never drive at night? You re golden not a problem at all for you. But me? I drive at night a lot I work with a lot of Americans so my day starts at like 4PM and most of my driving is in the dark. Regardless of the gripes... I d still highly recommend the car to anyone! I just wish Tesla would focus their efforts in places that are important for other countries (and other states...) it seems like Europe is largely forgotten unfortunately with the software becoming more crippled over time with no real improvements in sight. Don t get me wrong I absolutely love the updates like the blind spot camera live sentry mode camera access the various cold weather improvements and the general ease of ownership and the service experience. My 2 years of ownership have been amazing there s just a few things that are extremely questionable. :) & #x200B Thanks for reading my review! I hope it doesn t come across too harsh! Let me know if you have any questions or if you have experienced any of these issues yourself. I d love to discuss this and know if the newer Model 3 s with the new headlight design experience similar issues in the dark. :) & #x200B **EDIT:** An absolute legend u allegory_corey has figured out the cause of my headlight alignment issues. They are lower in the EU in general but especially low as I park on sloped ground. It seems like Tesla is using some suspension travel sensors to determine the weight of the vehicle if the rear is squatting down more than the front then it must be heay right? Or *it s just parked on a slope.* His solution is to drive onto flat ground open then close the door then the headlights will re-align themselves back to the correct alignment. This is pretty clearly a software bug. Please someone at Tesla look into this. :) | It was a shock to me to learn about 2 years ago that headlights on modern cars in Europe *move*. I ve never seen a single car in the US whose headlights move unless it s an uppy-downy headlight. There may be some but I haven t seen em. | Hey thanks for the review. Been really considering getting a Long Range Model 3 once pricing returns normal. Hoping to get it around $41k? \\*fingers-crossed\\* My biggest concern on buying is with part pricing and availability. I do sometime see people talk about the crazy bills they get when something goes wrong or someone hits the car. Have you looked into getting OEM or even 3rd party parts for repairs? Secondly could you add some details on what was covered under the Goodwill warranty? E.g. What was covered how much price-wise is covered. | 45 | 2 | 9,293 |
ru1mb8 | 63 | Upgrade to MCU2?? I have a Model S 75D built in 2017. I have the MCU 1 and I have paid for FSD back when I purchased the vehicle. I have been reading that nobody with an MCU 1 is getting software updates to allow for use of FSD. I am on the fence about FSD because on the one hand I have paid for it. However I have observed that many people do not believe it s in a good working form as of yet. I realize it is still “beta”. My car is not had a significant update since 2020. The version of software that I am running is 2020.48.37.8. My eMMC chip has not been replaced despite the recall. I don t really want to spend the $1500 or so to pay for hardware to enable something that I have already paid for. I also understand that my model would also need other hardware upgrades in order to utilize FSD. When I had purchased the car I was assured that the car had all necessary hardware and that FSD was only waiting on regulatory approval. Obviously that was not the case. Any other owners out there who have dealt with this situation that can offer me their advice or perspective? Overall I like the car and I have driven 105 000 plus miles on it since Thanksgiving of 2017. I envision keeping the car the car many more years. I do get concerned about the main battery failing but I will just have to keep my fingers crossed that it will last for another 150 000 miles. Happy new year everyone. | I have the same car. I didn t care about fsd but the speed of the computer made the upgrade completely worth it. It felt like a new car again. | I was in the same situation and decided to do the upgrade. I was holding off because my MCU1 screens were still in perfect condition but the lag was making even the HVAC controls unusable and I wanted a working Dashcam and Sentry mode. | 32 | 2 | 9,294 |
ru1mb8 | 63 | Upgrade to MCU2?? I have a Model S 75D built in 2017. I have the MCU 1 and I have paid for FSD back when I purchased the vehicle. I have been reading that nobody with an MCU 1 is getting software updates to allow for use of FSD. I am on the fence about FSD because on the one hand I have paid for it. However I have observed that many people do not believe it s in a good working form as of yet. I realize it is still “beta”. My car is not had a significant update since 2020. The version of software that I am running is 2020.48.37.8. My eMMC chip has not been replaced despite the recall. I don t really want to spend the $1500 or so to pay for hardware to enable something that I have already paid for. I also understand that my model would also need other hardware upgrades in order to utilize FSD. When I had purchased the car I was assured that the car had all necessary hardware and that FSD was only waiting on regulatory approval. Obviously that was not the case. Any other owners out there who have dealt with this situation that can offer me their advice or perspective? Overall I like the car and I have driven 105 000 plus miles on it since Thanksgiving of 2017. I envision keeping the car the car many more years. I do get concerned about the main battery failing but I will just have to keep my fingers crossed that it will last for another 150 000 miles. Happy new year everyone. | I have the same car. I didn t care about fsd but the speed of the computer made the upgrade completely worth it. It felt like a new car again. | What autopilot computer do you have? 2.5 or full self-driving computer? You re are entitled to hw3 upgrades as part of the FSD package you paid for. FSD beta requires camera upgrades for cars older than 2018. You are entitled to this as well. I ve heard of hw3 upgrades including mcu2. It s possible you may get this upgrade free. | 32 | 3 | 9,295 |
ru1mb8 | 63 | Upgrade to MCU2?? I have a Model S 75D built in 2017. I have the MCU 1 and I have paid for FSD back when I purchased the vehicle. I have been reading that nobody with an MCU 1 is getting software updates to allow for use of FSD. I am on the fence about FSD because on the one hand I have paid for it. However I have observed that many people do not believe it s in a good working form as of yet. I realize it is still “beta”. My car is not had a significant update since 2020. The version of software that I am running is 2020.48.37.8. My eMMC chip has not been replaced despite the recall. I don t really want to spend the $1500 or so to pay for hardware to enable something that I have already paid for. I also understand that my model would also need other hardware upgrades in order to utilize FSD. When I had purchased the car I was assured that the car had all necessary hardware and that FSD was only waiting on regulatory approval. Obviously that was not the case. Any other owners out there who have dealt with this situation that can offer me their advice or perspective? Overall I like the car and I have driven 105 000 plus miles on it since Thanksgiving of 2017. I envision keeping the car the car many more years. I do get concerned about the main battery failing but I will just have to keep my fingers crossed that it will last for another 150 000 miles. Happy new year everyone. | I have the same car. I didn t care about fsd but the speed of the computer made the upgrade completely worth it. It felt like a new car again. | I bought a CPO 17 X that included FSD in July 20. At that time Tesla communicated all FSD HW was included with the purchased MCU2 they upgraded both displays. Everything is up to date on my X no further upgrades are available to date. Based on your communication I m reading your decision point is how long you plan on keeping your S relative to remaining battery warranty. You ll get value out of the MCU2 purchase if you decide to keep the car. There s a decent 3rd party warranty that allows purchaser to use Tesla service as desired. Good luck with your decision. | 32 | 4 | 9,296 |
ru2b87 | 414 | Absolutely horrific FSD beta experience in the snow In the suburbs where I live it snowed around 5 inches over this weekend. I decided to take my LR AWD (with performance boost) Model 3 with FSD beta out to take a controlled look at how the beta handles some pseudo-snow-plowed roads. I ve got Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 s on it which have better snow traction than the stock MXM4 s and [generally aren t terrible in the snow even compared to winter tires](https: www.tire-reviews.com Article Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4S-vs-All-Season-4-vs-Michelin-X-Ice-Snow.htm). I made sure to not activate the beta unless there were no other cars around (and kept the speed limit at -5 to -10 the limit) because the beta has been sketchy enough to me in perfect weather. **EDIT:** I *know* it is very unlikely to behave well in the snow but I assumed it would either 1) not let me activate it at all detecting the snow on the ground or 2) not behave well in which case I could adequately set a baseline to compare future updates to as it (hopefully) someday learns to drive in inclement weather or 3) pleasantly surprised me. EDIT Holy cow it was *bad*. I m not going to use it in the snow again until there are more updates (and probably not even then). Here are a few obstacles I ran into where it really suffered. 1. Stop signs: The beta has a habit of driving forward until it really has to stop and then it *stops* (using the brake too most of the time. Come on one pedal driving!). It grindingly slid uncomfortably a few feet past the first stop sign before coming to a stop. Decided to not let it do that anymore. 2. Driving in a straight line (or rather not) when not being able to see lines: When driving down a moderate speed road (40 mph speed limit driving 30) and being unable to clearly see the lines the beta made some pretty crazy moves in its jerky sort of manner. It would hold a line then jerk to the side (a movement sharp enough that it should just be an absolute no-go in snow period). It would even jerk to the *left* into what would ve been oncoming traffic. I d take over. Rinse repeat. Normally you follow the parts of the road that have been plowed or keep in a straight line holding the right side of the car to the right side of the road. There should never be a need for such sudden corrections (this is a pet peeve of mine the beta does even in good weather -- it s just infinitely more dangerous in bad weather). 3. Picking a safer lane when presented with options: One part of the drive took me to a four-lane road (two in each direction) where the middle lanes had been plowed the outer lanes had not been. I m not even sure why the beta wanted to be in the right lane so badly (I have get out of the left lane turned off because of how sporadic it is) but it kept trying to drive me out of the plowed lane into the unplowed lane for no apparent reason (no cars around no turn coming up no get-out-of-left-lane). 4. Not being able to see over distances: There was a point where an ambulance was coming towards us from behind with its lights on. I opened up the camera view and there is no way the rear-view camera could see it between the snow water on the lens the angle and the generally washed-out image of everything being white. I took over and pulled to the side to let the ambulance pass. On the bright side this excursion reminded me of how fantastically the Model 3 handles in the snow (when I was driving). I sure hope Elon is right and that Level 4 is just a year away based on interventions per mile but I can t help but be incredibly doubtful of that especially with this trip out into the snow. | Snow? It s not even ready for rainy conditions yet. I m surprised you didn t get the message Full self-driving unavailable. Poor weather detected. | I *know* I ve read somewhere that FSD is not meant to be used in the snow at all yet. And I d agree - let them get it right for normal non precipitation situations first. As for SAE Levels from what I ve seen so far - all seem to have preconditions when those levels are in place. So for example they could do level 4 in specific areas conditions speeds etc. | 317 | 8 | 9,297 |
ru2b87 | 414 | Absolutely horrific FSD beta experience in the snow In the suburbs where I live it snowed around 5 inches over this weekend. I decided to take my LR AWD (with performance boost) Model 3 with FSD beta out to take a controlled look at how the beta handles some pseudo-snow-plowed roads. I ve got Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 s on it which have better snow traction than the stock MXM4 s and [generally aren t terrible in the snow even compared to winter tires](https: www.tire-reviews.com Article Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4S-vs-All-Season-4-vs-Michelin-X-Ice-Snow.htm). I made sure to not activate the beta unless there were no other cars around (and kept the speed limit at -5 to -10 the limit) because the beta has been sketchy enough to me in perfect weather. **EDIT:** I *know* it is very unlikely to behave well in the snow but I assumed it would either 1) not let me activate it at all detecting the snow on the ground or 2) not behave well in which case I could adequately set a baseline to compare future updates to as it (hopefully) someday learns to drive in inclement weather or 3) pleasantly surprised me. EDIT Holy cow it was *bad*. I m not going to use it in the snow again until there are more updates (and probably not even then). Here are a few obstacles I ran into where it really suffered. 1. Stop signs: The beta has a habit of driving forward until it really has to stop and then it *stops* (using the brake too most of the time. Come on one pedal driving!). It grindingly slid uncomfortably a few feet past the first stop sign before coming to a stop. Decided to not let it do that anymore. 2. Driving in a straight line (or rather not) when not being able to see lines: When driving down a moderate speed road (40 mph speed limit driving 30) and being unable to clearly see the lines the beta made some pretty crazy moves in its jerky sort of manner. It would hold a line then jerk to the side (a movement sharp enough that it should just be an absolute no-go in snow period). It would even jerk to the *left* into what would ve been oncoming traffic. I d take over. Rinse repeat. Normally you follow the parts of the road that have been plowed or keep in a straight line holding the right side of the car to the right side of the road. There should never be a need for such sudden corrections (this is a pet peeve of mine the beta does even in good weather -- it s just infinitely more dangerous in bad weather). 3. Picking a safer lane when presented with options: One part of the drive took me to a four-lane road (two in each direction) where the middle lanes had been plowed the outer lanes had not been. I m not even sure why the beta wanted to be in the right lane so badly (I have get out of the left lane turned off because of how sporadic it is) but it kept trying to drive me out of the plowed lane into the unplowed lane for no apparent reason (no cars around no turn coming up no get-out-of-left-lane). 4. Not being able to see over distances: There was a point where an ambulance was coming towards us from behind with its lights on. I opened up the camera view and there is no way the rear-view camera could see it between the snow water on the lens the angle and the generally washed-out image of everything being white. I took over and pulled to the side to let the ambulance pass. On the bright side this excursion reminded me of how fantastically the Model 3 handles in the snow (when I was driving). I sure hope Elon is right and that Level 4 is just a year away based on interventions per mile but I can t help but be incredibly doubtful of that especially with this trip out into the snow. | Snow? It s not even ready for rainy conditions yet. I m surprised you didn t get the message Full self-driving unavailable. Poor weather detected. | > I sure hope Elon is right and that Level 4 is just a year away based on interventions per mile but I can t help but be incredibly doubtful of that especially with this trip out into the snow. So FWIW Level 4 doesn t require being able to drive in all conditions. As long as the system can figure out that it can t safely handle current or upcoming conditions and manage to park the car that is sufficient for Level 4. So this works in sunny daytime conditions well above freezing for example could still be the basis for a (potentially very useful despite limitations) Level 4 system. | 317 | 17 | 9,298 |
ru2b87 | 414 | Absolutely horrific FSD beta experience in the snow In the suburbs where I live it snowed around 5 inches over this weekend. I decided to take my LR AWD (with performance boost) Model 3 with FSD beta out to take a controlled look at how the beta handles some pseudo-snow-plowed roads. I ve got Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 s on it which have better snow traction than the stock MXM4 s and [generally aren t terrible in the snow even compared to winter tires](https: www.tire-reviews.com Article Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4S-vs-All-Season-4-vs-Michelin-X-Ice-Snow.htm). I made sure to not activate the beta unless there were no other cars around (and kept the speed limit at -5 to -10 the limit) because the beta has been sketchy enough to me in perfect weather. **EDIT:** I *know* it is very unlikely to behave well in the snow but I assumed it would either 1) not let me activate it at all detecting the snow on the ground or 2) not behave well in which case I could adequately set a baseline to compare future updates to as it (hopefully) someday learns to drive in inclement weather or 3) pleasantly surprised me. EDIT Holy cow it was *bad*. I m not going to use it in the snow again until there are more updates (and probably not even then). Here are a few obstacles I ran into where it really suffered. 1. Stop signs: The beta has a habit of driving forward until it really has to stop and then it *stops* (using the brake too most of the time. Come on one pedal driving!). It grindingly slid uncomfortably a few feet past the first stop sign before coming to a stop. Decided to not let it do that anymore. 2. Driving in a straight line (or rather not) when not being able to see lines: When driving down a moderate speed road (40 mph speed limit driving 30) and being unable to clearly see the lines the beta made some pretty crazy moves in its jerky sort of manner. It would hold a line then jerk to the side (a movement sharp enough that it should just be an absolute no-go in snow period). It would even jerk to the *left* into what would ve been oncoming traffic. I d take over. Rinse repeat. Normally you follow the parts of the road that have been plowed or keep in a straight line holding the right side of the car to the right side of the road. There should never be a need for such sudden corrections (this is a pet peeve of mine the beta does even in good weather -- it s just infinitely more dangerous in bad weather). 3. Picking a safer lane when presented with options: One part of the drive took me to a four-lane road (two in each direction) where the middle lanes had been plowed the outer lanes had not been. I m not even sure why the beta wanted to be in the right lane so badly (I have get out of the left lane turned off because of how sporadic it is) but it kept trying to drive me out of the plowed lane into the unplowed lane for no apparent reason (no cars around no turn coming up no get-out-of-left-lane). 4. Not being able to see over distances: There was a point where an ambulance was coming towards us from behind with its lights on. I opened up the camera view and there is no way the rear-view camera could see it between the snow water on the lens the angle and the generally washed-out image of everything being white. I took over and pulled to the side to let the ambulance pass. On the bright side this excursion reminded me of how fantastically the Model 3 handles in the snow (when I was driving). I sure hope Elon is right and that Level 4 is just a year away based on interventions per mile but I can t help but be incredibly doubtful of that especially with this trip out into the snow. | Snow? It s not even ready for rainy conditions yet. I m surprised you didn t get the message Full self-driving unavailable. Poor weather detected. | If you re consistently driving in snow in the winter months you need to change to snow tires. All-season tires are not designed for snow. | 317 | 24 | 9,299 |
rufeym | 113 | How does a Tesla use its second electric motor? (Power split for normal driving) Hey I know how this question sounds but please hear me out. I am not talking about how the car uses both motors if you floor it from the stand still but if you drive it normally. I assume that if you floor it both motors deliver full power but how is it when you are cruising along at 60mph? Does the car always split the power equally between both motors? Does the rear motor deliver most of the power and the front motor get s just enough so that it doesn t slow the car down? Does the front motor completely disengage when you are cruising along? Like putting the gearbox for the front motor in neutral. Or does it work completely different? | Front is an induction motor. Rear is a permanent magnet synchronous motor. So you can t really switch the rear one off (if you do the magnets will still move past the coils and cause an induced current which will lead to a braking force in the motor - i.e. that s where you get regenerative braking). The front motor has no permanet magnets so you can just disconnect it the field collapses and it just rides along without any resistance. No magnetic field moving past anything. It does not disenagage but just rotates along. (Some other companies who use front and rear permanent magnet motors actively disengage one motor to prevent it from rotating along. Obviously this has implications for punchyness as you have to mechanically engage that motor again...and any time you do stuff mechanically then that means stuff can break. So while permanent magnet motors are more efficient I don t like this approach because both motors are only needed during heavy acceleration and that small efficiency gain isn t really worth the added complexity IMO) TLDR It makes sense from an efficiency standpoint to just use the rear motor for regular driving. Since the peak horsepower is somewhere in the region 300-500+ (depending on model) and you just need 20(-ish) kW to keep you going at highway speeds it s also not much of a strain. | [https: www.youtube.com watch?v=53JCtW5OUOc& ab\\_channel=Bj%C3%B8rnNyland](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=53JCtW5OUOc& ab_channel=Bj%C3%B8rnNyland) You can see this video by bjorn in Thailand. It is a model 3 AWD LR. Look at F power and R power (front and rear motor). You can see when he gets stuck behind a car is forced to just cruise along everything is done by rear motor. Going downhill in the 2nd half you can see all the regen is done by the rear motor as well. This is good indication of what s happening in fair weather driving. In more adverse conditions you can look at this reddit post that shows AWD stays engaged for periods after detecting slip in the cold. https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments rggnk8 model\\_3\\_factfinding\\_awd\\_split\\_power\\_bias\\_snow | 169 | 3 | 9,300 |
rufeym | 113 | How does a Tesla use its second electric motor? (Power split for normal driving) Hey I know how this question sounds but please hear me out. I am not talking about how the car uses both motors if you floor it from the stand still but if you drive it normally. I assume that if you floor it both motors deliver full power but how is it when you are cruising along at 60mph? Does the car always split the power equally between both motors? Does the rear motor deliver most of the power and the front motor get s just enough so that it doesn t slow the car down? Does the front motor completely disengage when you are cruising along? Like putting the gearbox for the front motor in neutral. Or does it work completely different? | Front is an induction motor. Rear is a permanent magnet synchronous motor. So you can t really switch the rear one off (if you do the magnets will still move past the coils and cause an induced current which will lead to a braking force in the motor - i.e. that s where you get regenerative braking). The front motor has no permanet magnets so you can just disconnect it the field collapses and it just rides along without any resistance. No magnetic field moving past anything. It does not disenagage but just rotates along. (Some other companies who use front and rear permanent magnet motors actively disengage one motor to prevent it from rotating along. Obviously this has implications for punchyness as you have to mechanically engage that motor again...and any time you do stuff mechanically then that means stuff can break. So while permanent magnet motors are more efficient I don t like this approach because both motors are only needed during heavy acceleration and that small efficiency gain isn t really worth the added complexity IMO) TLDR It makes sense from an efficiency standpoint to just use the rear motor for regular driving. Since the peak horsepower is somewhere in the region 300-500+ (depending on model) and you just need 20(-ish) kW to keep you going at highway speeds it s also not much of a strain. | ScanMyTesla phone apps with a BT adapter show all this data. It is very cool. You can easily put it in a chart from their software page or excel if the time column is adjusted. https: www.scanmytesla.com | 169 | 4 | 9,301 |
rufeym | 113 | How does a Tesla use its second electric motor? (Power split for normal driving) Hey I know how this question sounds but please hear me out. I am not talking about how the car uses both motors if you floor it from the stand still but if you drive it normally. I assume that if you floor it both motors deliver full power but how is it when you are cruising along at 60mph? Does the car always split the power equally between both motors? Does the rear motor deliver most of the power and the front motor get s just enough so that it doesn t slow the car down? Does the front motor completely disengage when you are cruising along? Like putting the gearbox for the front motor in neutral. Or does it work completely different? | Front is an induction motor. Rear is a permanent magnet synchronous motor. So you can t really switch the rear one off (if you do the magnets will still move past the coils and cause an induced current which will lead to a braking force in the motor - i.e. that s where you get regenerative braking). The front motor has no permanet magnets so you can just disconnect it the field collapses and it just rides along without any resistance. No magnetic field moving past anything. It does not disenagage but just rotates along. (Some other companies who use front and rear permanent magnet motors actively disengage one motor to prevent it from rotating along. Obviously this has implications for punchyness as you have to mechanically engage that motor again...and any time you do stuff mechanically then that means stuff can break. So while permanent magnet motors are more efficient I don t like this approach because both motors are only needed during heavy acceleration and that small efficiency gain isn t really worth the added complexity IMO) TLDR It makes sense from an efficiency standpoint to just use the rear motor for regular driving. Since the peak horsepower is somewhere in the region 300-500+ (depending on model) and you just need 20(-ish) kW to keep you going at highway speeds it s also not much of a strain. | Check out u wugz post history. They ve posted some analyses on this sub before. But for the most part it biases the power 100% to the rear motor when cruising. | 169 | 29 | 9,302 |
rvvreb | 652 | Are you losing faith in FSD? I have a big interest in AI and Tesla in general. I am continuously following the FSDs progress. But it feels like it has started to stagnate. Do you agree? I hope I am wrong. | I m more or less surprised the fact that they promised full self-driving way back in 2017 and it s like they had to start from scratch all over again and we re back at phase 1. It s improved a lot since the beta was out a year or so ago but even then from how much they ve praised it back then compared to now I can see why a lot of people have lost a lot of faith in it arriving soon. | Honestly FSD beta is great for straight away stop and go traffic on highway city roads and the occasional turn. But I m still nervous for everything else | 465 | 2 | 9,303 |
rvvreb | 652 | Are you losing faith in FSD? I have a big interest in AI and Tesla in general. I am continuously following the FSDs progress. But it feels like it has started to stagnate. Do you agree? I hope I am wrong. | I m more or less surprised the fact that they promised full self-driving way back in 2017 and it s like they had to start from scratch all over again and we re back at phase 1. It s improved a lot since the beta was out a year or so ago but even then from how much they ve praised it back then compared to now I can see why a lot of people have lost a lot of faith in it arriving soon. | You can t extrapolate when it s going to be done or even if it can be done based on the current improvements per update. Makes no sense. | 465 | 2 | 9,304 |
rvvreb | 652 | Are you losing faith in FSD? I have a big interest in AI and Tesla in general. I am continuously following the FSDs progress. But it feels like it has started to stagnate. Do you agree? I hope I am wrong. | I m more or less surprised the fact that they promised full self-driving way back in 2017 and it s like they had to start from scratch all over again and we re back at phase 1. It s improved a lot since the beta was out a year or so ago but even then from how much they ve praised it back then compared to now I can see why a lot of people have lost a lot of faith in it arriving soon. | I don t feel so as much. 10.8 is huge for me. For coming up to stops it feels so much safer as before I felt it was braking too late. Now it feels smoother. Definitely other improvements but this was one of my major gripes. | 465 | 2 | 9,305 |
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