gowitheflow/parallel-talks-deduplicated · Datasets at Hugging Face

english stringlengths 2 3.06k	non_english stringlengths 1 2.84k	language stringclasses 52 values
But who are the value creators?	Pero ¿quiénes son los creadores de valor?	en-es
If we use that word, we must be implying that some people aren't creating value.	說這話的意思就是並非所有人都在創造價值	en-zh-tw
Who are they?	Tko su oni?	en-hr
The couch potatoes?	בטטות הכורסא?	en-he
The value extractors?	Gli estrattori di valore?	en-it
The value destroyers?	משחיתי הערך?	en-he
To answer this question, we actually have to have a proper theory of value.	Per rispondere a questa domanda, serve una vera e propria teoria del valore.	en-it
And I'm here as an economist to break it to you that we've kind of lost our way on this question.	오늘 이자리에서 경제학자로서 이 질문에 대한 답을 찾는 과정에서 길을 잃었다는 사실을 고백합니다.	en-ko
Now, don't look so surprised.	그렇지만 놀라지는 마세요.	en-ko
What I mean by that is, we've stopped contesting it.	O que quero dizer é que paramos de contestar,	en-pt-br
We've stopped actually asking really tough questions about what is the difference between value creation and value extraction, productive and unproductive activities.	Mi smo, zapravo, prestali postavljati stvarno teška pitanja o tome koja je razlika između stvaranja vrijednosti i ekstrakcije vrijednosti, proizvodnih i neproizvodnih djelatnosti.	en-hr
Now, let me just give you some context here.	Permitam-me que vos explique o contexto.	en-pt
2009 was just about a year and a half after one of the biggest financial crises of our time, second only to the 1929 Great Depression, and the CEO of Goldman Sachs said Goldman Sachs workers are the most productive in the world.	En el 2009, casi un año y medio tras una de las mayores crisis financieras de nuestro tiempo, la segunda después de la Gran Depresión de 1929, el CEO de Goldman Sachs dijo que los trabajadores de Goldman Sachs eran los más productivos en el mundo.	en-es
Productivity and productiveness, for an economist, actually has a lot to do with value.	生产力和生产率，对经济学家来说，其实和价值有着很大关系。	en-zh-cn
You're producing stuff, you're producing it dynamically and efficiently.	你生產東西用的是動態、有效率的方法	en-zh-tw
You're also producing things that the world needs, wants and buys.	Produzimos coisas de que o mundo precisa, quer e compra.	en-pt
Now, how this could have been said just one year after the crisis, which actually had this bank as well as many other banks -- I'm just kind of picking on Goldman Sachs here -- at the center of the crisis, because they had actually produced some pretty problematic financial products mainly but not only related to mortgages, which saw many thousands of people actually lose their homes.	现在，在危机发生仅 1 年后，怎么能说出这样的话？这个银行，以及很多其他的银行 ——我这里只是拿高盛举例—— 它们处于危机的中心，因为他们其实制造并销售了不仅限于房屋贷款的好些有问题的金融产品，这让成千上万的人失去住所。	en-zh-cn
In 2010, in just one month, September, 120,000 people lost their homes through the foreclosures of that crisis.	就在 2010 年的一个月内， 9 月，12万人在这场危机中丧失了房屋赎回权。	en-zh-cn
Between 2007 and 2010, 8.8 million people lost their jobs.	Entre 2007 e 2010, 8,8 milhões de pessoas perderam o emprego.	en-pt-br
The bank also had to then be bailed out by the US taxpayer for the sum of 10 billion dollars.	這家銀行更是用了美國納稅人 100 億美金才脫離險境	en-zh-tw
We didn't hear the taxpayers bragging that they were value creators, but obviously, having bailed out one of the biggest value-creating productive companies, perhaps they should have.	Nismo čuli da su se porezni obveznici hvalili da su oni bili kreatori vrijednosti, ali očito je, budući da su spasili jednu od najvećih kompanija generatora vrijednosti, možda su trebali.	en-hr
What I want to do next is kind of ask ourselves how we lost our way, how it could be, actually, that a statement like that could almost go unnoticed, because it wasn't an after-dinner joke; it was said very seriously.	我接著想問大家我們如何迷失了方向我們怎麼會對那樣的陳述幾乎毫無所覺因為那席話十分認真並非只是玩笑	en-zh-tw
So what I want to do is bring you back 300 years in economic thinking, when, actually, the term was contested.	Así que lo que quiero hacer es recordar 300 años de pensamiento económico, cuando, en realidad, se discutía el término.	en-es
It doesn't mean that they were right or wrong, but you couldn't just call yourself a value creator, a wealth creator.	这并不是说他们是对或错，但你不能自称是价值创造者，财富创造者。	en-zh-cn
There was a lot of debate within the economics profession.	Havia muito debate entre os economistas.	en-pt-br
And what I want to argue is, we've kind of lost our way, and that has actually allowed this term, "wealth creation" and "value," to become quite weak and lazy and also easily captured.	我認為我們已經迷失方向了才讓「創造財富」、「價值」這些字失其份量，得來全不費工夫可以脫口而出	en-zh-tw
OK? So let's start -- I hate to break it to you -- 300 years ago.	Vamos começar, odeio dizer isso a vocês, há 300 anos.	en-pt-br
Now, what was interesting 300 years ago is the society was still an agricultural type of society.	L'aspetto interessante di 300 anni fa è che la società era ancora fondamentalmente agricola.	en-it
So it's not surprising that the economists of the time, who were called the Physiocrats, actually put the center of their attention to farm labor.	לכן אין פלא שהכלכלנים של אז, שנקראו "פיזיוקראטים", התייחסו במיוחד לעבודת האדמה.	en-he
When they said, "Where does value come from?"	Kada su rekli, "Odakle dolazi vrijednost?"	en-hr
they looked at farming.	gledali su na poljoprivredu.	en-hr
And they produced what I think was probably the world's first spreadsheet, called the "Tableau Economique," and this was done by François Quesnay, one of the leaders of this movement.	E produziram o que foi, provavelmente, a primeira planilha do mundo, chamada "Tableau Économique", elaborada por François Quesnay, um dos líderes deste movimento.	en-pt-br
And it was very interesting, because they didn't just say, "Farming is the source of value."	I to je bilo vrlo zanimljivo jer nisu tek rekli "Poljoprivreda je izvor vrijednosti."	en-hr
They then really worried about what was happening to that value when it was produced.	Si sono anche preoccupati di cosa succedesse a quel valore, una volta prodotto.	en-it
What the Tableau Economique does -- and I've tried to make it a bit simpler here for you -- is it broke down the classes in society into three.	Lo que hace el Tableau Economique —he tratado de simplificarlo un poco para Uds.— es dividir la sociedad en tres clases.	en-es
The farmers, creating value, were called the "productive class."	Os agricultores, criando valor, eram chamados de "classe produtiva".	en-pt-br
Then others who were just moving some of this value around but it was useful, it was necessary, these were the merchants; they were called the "proprietors."	Poi altri si limitavano a redistribuire un po' di questo valore, ma erano utili, necessari, ed erano i mercanti; o "proprietari", com'erano chiamati.	en-it
And then there was another class that was simply charging the farmers a fee for an existing asset, the land, and they called them the "sterile class."	還有另一階級他們只用現有資產也就是土地，向農民收錢稱為「不事生產階級」	en-zh-tw
Now, this is a really heavy-hitting word if you think what it means: that if too much of the resources are going to the landlords, you're actually putting the reproduction potential of the system at risk.	Esa es una palabra muy connotada de alto impacto si se piensa en lo que significa: que si demasiados recursos van a los propietarios, en realidad, se pone en peligro la reproducción potencial del sistema.	en-es
And so all these little arrows there were their way of simulating -- again, spreadsheets and simulators, these guys were really using big data -- they were simulating what would actually happen under different scenarios if the wealth actually wasn't reinvested back into production to make that land more productive and was actually being siphoned out in different ways, or even if the proprietors were getting too much.	这里所有的小箭头是他们的模拟方式—— 再次，表格和模拟程序，他们真的在用大数据—— 他们在模拟不同情景下可能会发生什么，如果财富不被重新投资于生产让土地更具生产力并实际上被以不同的方式吸走，或甚至，经营者获取过多。	en-zh-cn
And what later happened in the 1800s, and this was no longer the Agricultural Revolution but the Industrial Revolution, is that the classical economists, and these were Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Karl Marx, the revolutionary, also asked the question "What is value?"	E poi, nell'Ottocento, dove non c'era più la rivoluzione agricola ma la rivoluzione industriale, anche gli economisti classici, ovvero Adam Smith, David Ricardo, il rivoluzionario Karl Marx, cominciarono a chiedersi: "Cos'è il valore?"	en-it
But it's not surprising that because they were actually living through an industrial era with the rise of machines and factories, they said it was industrial labor.	但他們實際生活在工業化時代機械、工廠到處林立他們的答案是工業勞力	en-zh-tw
So they had a labor theory of value.	והם ניסחו תיאוריית-עבודה של ערך.	en-he
But again, their focus was reproduction, this real worry of what was happening to the value that was created if it was getting siphoned out.	אך שוב, הם התמקדו בייצור החוזר, בדאגה הממשית למה שקורה עם הערך לאחר שנוצר אם הוא נשאב.	en-he
And in "The Wealth of Nations," Adam Smith had this really great example of the pin factory where he said if you only have one person making every bit of the pin, at most you can make one pin a day.	Y en "La riqueza de las naciones" Adam Smith puso este gran ejemplo de la fábrica de alfileres al decir, si solo tienes una persona haciendo todo el alfiler a lo sumo puedes hacer un alfiler al día.	en-es
But if you actually invest in factory production and the division of labor, new thinking -- today, we would use the word "organizational innovation" -- then you could increase the productivity and the growth and the wealth of nations.	Mas se você investisse em produção de fábrica e divisão do trabalho, no novo pensamento, hoje usaríamos a palavra "inovação organizacional", aumentando, assim, a produtividade, e o crescimento e a riqueza das nações.	en-pt-br
So he showed that 10 specialized workers who had been invested in, in their human capital, could produce 4,800 pins a day, as opposed to just one by an unspecialized worker.	Yani, insani sermayelerine yatırım yapılmış uzmanlaşmış 10 vasıflı işçiyle günde 4.800 iğne üretebilirdiniz, vasıfsız bir işçiyle ise sadece bir tane.	en-tr
And he and his fellow classical economists also broke down activities into productive and unproductive ones.	והוא ועמיתיו, הכלכלנים הקלאסיים, חילקו את הפעילויות ליצרניות ולבלתי-יצרניות.	en-he
(Laughter) And the unproductive ones weren't -- I think you're laughing because most of you are on that list, aren't you?	(Risate) E quelle improduttive non erano -- Stiate ridendo perché la maggior parte di voi è su quella lista, vero?	en-it
(Laughter) Lawyers! I think he was right about the lawyers.	(Risas) Abogados. Creo que tenía razón sobre los abogados.	en-es
Definitely not the professors, the letters of all kind people.	Svakako ne profesori, bilo koji ljudi od slova.	en-hr
So lawyers, professors, shopkeepers, musicians.	律師、教授、店主、音樂家	en-zh-tw
He obviously hated the opera.	아담 스미스는 오페라를 싫어했던 것 같습니다.	en-ko
He must have seen the worst performance of his life the night before writing this book.	Deve ter visto a pior atuação da sua vida na noite antes de escrever o livro.	en-pt
There's at least three professions up there that have to do with the opera.	jer najmanje je tri profesije tamo gore povezane s operom.	en-hr
But this wasn't an exercise of saying, "Don't do these things."	Mas esse não foi um exercício para dizer: "Não façam essas coisas".	en-pt-br
It was just, "What's going to happen if we actually end up allowing some parts of the economy to get too large without really thinking about how to increase the productivity of the source of the value that they thought was key, which was industrial labor.	Voleva solo dire: "Cosa succederà, se permettiamo l'espansione incontrollata di alcuni settori dell'economia senza pensare veramente a come aumentare la produttività di quella che ritenevano la fonte principale del valore, il lavoro industriale.	en-it
And again, don't ask yourself is this right or is this wrong, it was just very contested.	ושוב, אל תשאלו את עצמכם אם זה נכון או לא, זה היה רק מאד שנוי במחלוקת.	en-he
By making these lists, it actually forced them also to ask interesting questions.	עריכת הרשימות הללו אילצה אותם גם להעלות שאלות מעניינות.	en-he
And their focus, as the focus of the Physiocrats, was, in fact, on these objective conditions of production.	而且他们的关注点，和重农主义的关注点一样，实际上是建立在这些生产的客观条件上。	en-zh-cn
They also looked, for example, at the class struggle.	他们也关注，例如阶级斗争。	en-zh-cn
Their understanding of wages had to do with the objective, if you want, power relationships, the bargaining power of capital and labor.	A compreensão deles dos salários tinha a ver com o objetivo, as relações de poder de barganha do capital e do trabalho.	en-pt-br
But again, factories, machines, division of labor, agricultural land and what was happening to it.	Pero, de nuevo, las fábricas, las máquinas, la división del trabajo, tierras agrícolas es lo que se aglutinaba en ellas.	en-es
So the big revolution that then happened -- and this, by the way, is not often taught in economics classes -- the big revolution that happened with the current system of economic thinking that we have, which is called "neoclassical economics," was that the logic completely changed.	Então, a grande revolução que aconteceu na época... e isso, a propósito, nem sempre é ensinado em aulas de economia, com o sistema atual do pensamento econômico que temos, chamado de "economia neoclássica", foi que a lógica mudou totalmente em duas maneiras:	en-pt-br
It changed in two ways.	È cambiata in due modi.	en-it
It changed from this focus on objective conditions to subjective ones.	deste foco em condições objetivas para subjetivas.	en-pt-br
Let me explain what I mean by that.	Déjenme explicarles lo que quiero decir con eso.	en-es
Objective, in the way I just said.	客观，就是我之前说的方式。	en-zh-cn
Subjective, in the sense that all the attention went to how individuals of different sorts make their decisions.	Subjetivo, no sentido em que toda a atenção ia para a forma como os indivíduos tomam as suas decisões.	en-pt
OK, so workers are maximizing their choices of leisure versus work.	노동자들은 노동과 여가에 대한 자신들의 선택을 극대화합니다.	en-ko
Consumers are maximizing their so-called utility, which is a proxy for happiness, and firms are maximizing their profits.	Os consumidores maximizam a sua chamada utilidade, que representa a felicidade, e as empresas maximizam os seus lucros.	en-pt
And the idea behind this was that then we can aggregate this up, and we see what that turns into, which are these nice, fancy supply-and-demand curves which produce a price, an equilibrium price.	이러한 경제 사고체계를 뒷받침하는 생각은 이러한 것들을 모두 종합할 때 어떠한 일이 발생할지 알 수 있다는 것입니다. 그렇게 종합한 결과가 바로 이러한 멋진 수요-공급 그래프이고 가격 또는 균형가격이 계산됩니다.	en-ko
It's an equilibrium price, because we also added to it a lot of Newtonian physics equations where centers of gravity are very much part of the organizing principle.	交叉點是一個均衡價格因為我們也納入許多牛頓的物理等式重心就是組織原則的一部分	en-zh-tw
But the second point here is that that equilibrium price, or prices, reveal value.	il secondo punto è che quel prezzo, o prezzi, di equilibrio rivelano il valore.	en-it
So the revolution here is a change from objective to subjective, but also the logic is no longer one of what is value, how is it being determined, what is the reproductive potential of the economy, which then leads to a theory of price but rather the reverse: a theory of price and exchange which reveals value.	此（經濟理論）變革不只從客觀變為主觀觀點邏輯也變為不再考慮什麼有價值如何決定價值經濟體系的再生產潛力有多大（上述不再）決定價格反而是正好相反：由價格和交換理論揭示其價值	en-zh-tw
Now, this is a huge change.	Questo è un cambiamento enorme.	en-it
And it's not just an academic exercise, as fascinating as that might be.	E non è solo un esercizio accademico, per quanto affascinante possa essere.	en-it
It affects how we measure growth.	Isto afeta a forma como medimos o crescimento.	en-pt
It affects how we steer economies to produce more of some activities, less of others, how we also remunerate some activities more than others.	זה משפיע על ניהול הכלכלה שלנו כך שתפיק יותר פעילויות מסוימות ופחות פעילויות אחרות, איך אנו מתמחרים יותר פעילויות מסוימות מאשר אחרות.	en-he
And it also just kind of makes you think, you know, are you happy to get out of bed if you're a value creator or not, and how is the price system itself if you aren't determining that?	这也多少让你思考，假如你是否是个价值创造者，你会开心地起床吗，以及如果你无法决定价格，那价格系统自身如何决定价格？	en-zh-cn
I mentioned it affects how we think about output.	? Mencioné que afecta a la forma como pensamos sobre la producción.	en-es
If we only include, for example, in GDP, those activities that have prices, all sorts of really weird things happen.	Se includiamo, per esempio, solo il PIL, quelle attività a cui è assegnato un prezzo, succedono ogni sorta di bizzarre conseguenze.	en-it
Feminist economists and environmental economists have actually written about this quite a bit.	Economistas feministas e ambientalistas têm escrito bastante sobre isso.	en-pt-br
If you marry your babysitter, GDP will go down, so do not do it.	如果你娶了你家的褓姆 GDP會下降	en-zh-tw
Do not be tempted to do this, OK?	Ayartmaya kapılıp bunu yapmayın, tamam mı?	en-tr
Because an activity that perhaps was before being paid for is still being done but is no longer paid.	因为一项原本可被支付的活动尽管会照常进行，但结了婚，就没有“付钱”的环节了。	en-zh-cn
(Laughter) If you pollute, GDP goes up.	Se você polui, o PIB aumenta.	en-pt-br
Still don't do it, but if you do it, you'll help the economy.	이것도 하시면 안 되지만 만약 한다면 경제를 돕게 됩니다.	en-ko
Why? Because we have to actually pay someone to clean it.	Zašto? Zato jer nekome zapravo moramo platiti da to očisti.	en-hr
Now, what's also really interesting is what happened to finance in the financial sector in GDP.	Također je zaista zanimljivo ono što se dogodilo s financijama u financijskom sektoru BDP-a.	en-hr
This also, by the way, is something I'm always surprised that many economists don't know.	Bu arada, bu durum birçok ekonomistin bilmemesine hep şaşırdığım bir şey.	en-tr
Up until 1970, most of the financial sector was not even included in GDP.	1970 年以前大部分金融產業還未納入 GDP 計算	en-zh-tw
It was kind of indirectly, perhaps not knowingly, still being seen through the eyes of the Physiocrats as just kind of moving stuff around, not actually producing anything new.	간접적으로 혹은 자신도 모르게 중농학파 경제학자의 시각으로 본다면 금융은 생산물을 단순히 이동시키는 활동일 뿐, 새로운 것을 생산하는 활동으로 보이지 않았습니다.	en-ko
So only those activities that had an explicit price were included.	所以只有那些明确的价格活动才被包含进去。	en-zh-cn
For example, if you went to get a mortgage, you were charged a fee.	Por exemplo, para ter uma hipoteca era cobrada uma taxa.	en-pt
That went into GDP and the national income and product accounting.	이러한 수수료는 GDP와 국민소득계정에 포함되었습니다.	en-ko
But, for example, net interest payments didn't, the difference between what banks were earning in interest if they gave you a loan and what they were paying out for a deposit.	אבל לא תשלומי הריבית נטו, לדוגמא. ההפרש בין מה שהבנקים הרוויחו מהריבית כשנתנו לכם הלוואה, לבין מה שהם שילמו על פקדון,	en-he
That wasn't being included.	포함되지 않았습니다.	en-ko
And so the people doing the accounting started to look at some data, which started to show that the size of finance and these net interest payments were actually growing substantially.	그러다가 회계업무를 보는 사람들이 자료를 들여다보기 시작했는데, 금융업의 크기와 이러한 순이자 수익이 상당히 커지고 있다는 사실을 발견합니다.	en-ko
And they called this the "banking problem."	他們稱這個現象為「銀行業問題」	en-zh-tw

But who are the value creators?

Pero ¿quiénes son los creadores de valor?

en-es

If we use that word, we must be implying that some people aren't creating value.

說這話的意思就是並非所有人都在創造價值

en-zh-tw

Who are they?

Tko su oni?

en-hr

The couch potatoes?

בטטות הכורסא?

en-he

The value extractors?

Gli estrattori di valore?

en-it

The value destroyers?

משחיתי הערך?

en-he

To answer this question, we actually have to have a proper theory of value.

Per rispondere a questa domanda, serve una vera e propria teoria del valore.

en-it

And I'm here as an economist to break it to you that we've kind of lost our way on this question.

오늘 이자리에서 경제학자로서 이 질문에 대한 답을 찾는 과정에서 길을 잃었다는 사실을 고백합니다.

en-ko

Now, don't look so surprised.

그렇지만 놀라지는 마세요.

en-ko

What I mean by that is, we've stopped contesting it.

O que quero dizer é que paramos de contestar,

en-pt-br

We've stopped actually asking really tough questions about what is the difference between value creation and value extraction, productive and unproductive activities.

Mi smo, zapravo, prestali postavljati stvarno teška pitanja o tome koja je razlika između stvaranja vrijednosti i ekstrakcije vrijednosti, proizvodnih i neproizvodnih djelatnosti.

en-hr

Now, let me just give you some context here.

Permitam-me que vos explique o contexto.

en-pt

2009 was just about a year and a half after one of the biggest financial crises of our time, second only to the 1929 Great Depression, and the CEO of Goldman Sachs said Goldman Sachs workers are the most productive in the world.

En el 2009, casi un año y medio tras una de las mayores crisis financieras de nuestro tiempo, la segunda después de la Gran Depresión de 1929, el CEO de Goldman Sachs dijo que los trabajadores de Goldman Sachs eran los más productivos en el mundo.

en-es

Productivity and productiveness, for an economist, actually has a lot to do with value.

生产力和生产率，对经济学家来说，其实和价值有着很大关系。

en-zh-cn

You're producing stuff, you're producing it dynamically and efficiently.

你生產東西用的是動態、有效率的方法

en-zh-tw

You're also producing things that the world needs, wants and buys.

Produzimos coisas de que o mundo precisa, quer e compra.

en-pt

Now, how this could have been said just one year after the crisis, which actually had this bank as well as many other banks -- I'm just kind of picking on Goldman Sachs here -- at the center of the crisis, because they had actually produced some pretty problematic financial products mainly but not only related to mortgages, which saw many thousands of people actually lose their homes.

现在，在危机发生仅 1 年后，怎么能说出这样的话？这个银行，以及很多其他的银行 ——我这里只是拿高盛举例—— 它们处于危机的中心，因为他们其实制造并销售了不仅限于房屋贷款的好些有问题的金融产品，这让成千上万的人失去住所。

en-zh-cn

In 2010, in just one month, September, 120,000 people lost their homes through the foreclosures of that crisis.

就在 2010 年的一个月内， 9 月，12万人在这场危机中丧失了房屋赎回权。

en-zh-cn

Between 2007 and 2010, 8.8 million people lost their jobs.

Entre 2007 e 2010, 8,8 milhões de pessoas perderam o emprego.

en-pt-br

The bank also had to then be bailed out by the US taxpayer for the sum of 10 billion dollars.

這家銀行更是用了美國納稅人 100 億美金才脫離險境

en-zh-tw

We didn't hear the taxpayers bragging that they were value creators, but obviously, having bailed out one of the biggest value-creating productive companies, perhaps they should have.

Nismo čuli da su se porezni obveznici hvalili da su oni bili kreatori vrijednosti, ali očito je, budući da su spasili jednu od najvećih kompanija generatora vrijednosti, možda su trebali.

en-hr

What I want to do next is kind of ask ourselves how we lost our way, how it could be, actually, that a statement like that could almost go unnoticed, because it wasn't an after-dinner joke; it was said very seriously.

我接著想問大家我們如何迷失了方向我們怎麼會對那樣的陳述幾乎毫無所覺因為那席話十分認真並非只是玩笑

en-zh-tw

So what I want to do is bring you back 300 years in economic thinking, when, actually, the term was contested.

Así que lo que quiero hacer es recordar 300 años de pensamiento económico, cuando, en realidad, se discutía el término.

en-es

It doesn't mean that they were right or wrong, but you couldn't just call yourself a value creator, a wealth creator.

这并不是说他们是对或错，但你不能自称是价值创造者，财富创造者。

en-zh-cn

There was a lot of debate within the economics profession.

Havia muito debate entre os economistas.

en-pt-br

And what I want to argue is, we've kind of lost our way, and that has actually allowed this term, "wealth creation" and "value," to become quite weak and lazy and also easily captured.

我認為我們已經迷失方向了才讓「創造財富」、「價值」這些字失其份量，得來全不費工夫可以脫口而出

en-zh-tw

OK? So let's start -- I hate to break it to you -- 300 years ago.

Vamos começar, odeio dizer isso a vocês, há 300 anos.

en-pt-br

Now, what was interesting 300 years ago is the society was still an agricultural type of society.

L'aspetto interessante di 300 anni fa è che la società era ancora fondamentalmente agricola.

en-it

So it's not surprising that the economists of the time, who were called the Physiocrats, actually put the center of their attention to farm labor.

לכן אין פלא שהכלכלנים של אז, שנקראו "פיזיוקראטים", התייחסו במיוחד לעבודת האדמה.

en-he

When they said, "Where does value come from?"

Kada su rekli, "Odakle dolazi vrijednost?"

en-hr

they looked at farming.

gledali su na poljoprivredu.

en-hr

And they produced what I think was probably the world's first spreadsheet, called the "Tableau Economique," and this was done by François Quesnay, one of the leaders of this movement.

E produziram o que foi, provavelmente, a primeira planilha do mundo, chamada "Tableau Économique", elaborada por François Quesnay, um dos líderes deste movimento.

en-pt-br

And it was very interesting, because they didn't just say, "Farming is the source of value."

I to je bilo vrlo zanimljivo jer nisu tek rekli "Poljoprivreda je izvor vrijednosti."

en-hr

They then really worried about what was happening to that value when it was produced.

Si sono anche preoccupati di cosa succedesse a quel valore, una volta prodotto.

en-it

What the Tableau Economique does -- and I've tried to make it a bit simpler here for you -- is it broke down the classes in society into three.

Lo que hace el Tableau Economique —he tratado de simplificarlo un poco para Uds.— es dividir la sociedad en tres clases.

en-es

The farmers, creating value, were called the "productive class."

Os agricultores, criando valor, eram chamados de "classe produtiva".

en-pt-br

Then others who were just moving some of this value around but it was useful, it was necessary, these were the merchants; they were called the "proprietors."

Poi altri si limitavano a redistribuire un po' di questo valore, ma erano utili, necessari, ed erano i mercanti; o "proprietari", com'erano chiamati.

en-it

And then there was another class that was simply charging the farmers a fee for an existing asset, the land, and they called them the "sterile class."

還有另一階級他們只用現有資產也就是土地，向農民收錢稱為「不事生產階級」

en-zh-tw

Now, this is a really heavy-hitting word if you think what it means: that if too much of the resources are going to the landlords, you're actually putting the reproduction potential of the system at risk.

Esa es una palabra muy connotada de alto impacto si se piensa en lo que significa: que si demasiados recursos van a los propietarios, en realidad, se pone en peligro la reproducción potencial del sistema.

en-es

And so all these little arrows there were their way of simulating -- again, spreadsheets and simulators, these guys were really using big data -- they were simulating what would actually happen under different scenarios if the wealth actually wasn't reinvested back into production to make that land more productive and was actually being siphoned out in different ways, or even if the proprietors were getting too much.

这里所有的小箭头是他们的模拟方式—— 再次，表格和模拟程序，他们真的在用大数据—— 他们在模拟不同情景下可能会发生什么，如果财富不被重新投资于生产让土地更具生产力并实际上被以不同的方式吸走，或甚至，经营者获取过多。

en-zh-cn

And what later happened in the 1800s, and this was no longer the Agricultural Revolution but the Industrial Revolution, is that the classical economists, and these were Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Karl Marx, the revolutionary, also asked the question "What is value?"

E poi, nell'Ottocento, dove non c'era più la rivoluzione agricola ma la rivoluzione industriale, anche gli economisti classici, ovvero Adam Smith, David Ricardo, il rivoluzionario Karl Marx, cominciarono a chiedersi: "Cos'è il valore?"

en-it

But it's not surprising that because they were actually living through an industrial era with the rise of machines and factories, they said it was industrial labor.

但他們實際生活在工業化時代機械、工廠到處林立他們的答案是工業勞力

en-zh-tw

So they had a labor theory of value.

והם ניסחו תיאוריית-עבודה של ערך.

en-he

But again, their focus was reproduction, this real worry of what was happening to the value that was created if it was getting siphoned out.

אך שוב, הם התמקדו בייצור החוזר, בדאגה הממשית למה שקורה עם הערך לאחר שנוצר אם הוא נשאב.

en-he

And in "The Wealth of Nations," Adam Smith had this really great example of the pin factory where he said if you only have one person making every bit of the pin, at most you can make one pin a day.

Y en "La riqueza de las naciones" Adam Smith puso este gran ejemplo de la fábrica de alfileres al decir, si solo tienes una persona haciendo todo el alfiler a lo sumo puedes hacer un alfiler al día.

en-es

But if you actually invest in factory production and the division of labor, new thinking -- today, we would use the word "organizational innovation" -- then you could increase the productivity and the growth and the wealth of nations.

Mas se você investisse em produção de fábrica e divisão do trabalho, no novo pensamento, hoje usaríamos a palavra "inovação organizacional", aumentando, assim, a produtividade, e o crescimento e a riqueza das nações.

en-pt-br

So he showed that 10 specialized workers who had been invested in, in their human capital, could produce 4,800 pins a day, as opposed to just one by an unspecialized worker.

Yani, insani sermayelerine yatırım yapılmış uzmanlaşmış 10 vasıflı işçiyle günde 4.800 iğne üretebilirdiniz, vasıfsız bir işçiyle ise sadece bir tane.

en-tr

And he and his fellow classical economists also broke down activities into productive and unproductive ones.

והוא ועמיתיו, הכלכלנים הקלאסיים, חילקו את הפעילויות ליצרניות ולבלתי-יצרניות.

en-he

(Laughter) And the unproductive ones weren't -- I think you're laughing because most of you are on that list, aren't you?

(Risate) E quelle improduttive non erano -- Stiate ridendo perché la maggior parte di voi è su quella lista, vero?

en-it

(Laughter) Lawyers! I think he was right about the lawyers.

(Risas) Abogados. Creo que tenía razón sobre los abogados.

en-es

Definitely not the professors, the letters of all kind people.

Svakako ne profesori, bilo koji ljudi od slova.

en-hr

So lawyers, professors, shopkeepers, musicians.

律師、教授、店主、音樂家

en-zh-tw

He obviously hated the opera.

아담 스미스는 오페라를 싫어했던 것 같습니다.

en-ko

He must have seen the worst performance of his life the night before writing this book.

Deve ter visto a pior atuação da sua vida na noite antes de escrever o livro.

en-pt

There's at least three professions up there that have to do with the opera.

jer najmanje je tri profesije tamo gore povezane s operom.

en-hr

But this wasn't an exercise of saying, "Don't do these things."

Mas esse não foi um exercício para dizer: "Não façam essas coisas".

en-pt-br

It was just, "What's going to happen if we actually end up allowing some parts of the economy to get too large without really thinking about how to increase the productivity of the source of the value that they thought was key, which was industrial labor.

Voleva solo dire: "Cosa succederà, se permettiamo l'espansione incontrollata di alcuni settori dell'economia senza pensare veramente a come aumentare la produttività di quella che ritenevano la fonte principale del valore, il lavoro industriale.

en-it

And again, don't ask yourself is this right or is this wrong, it was just very contested.

ושוב, אל תשאלו את עצמכם אם זה נכון או לא, זה היה רק מאד שנוי במחלוקת.

en-he

By making these lists, it actually forced them also to ask interesting questions.

עריכת הרשימות הללו אילצה אותם גם להעלות שאלות מעניינות.

en-he

And their focus, as the focus of the Physiocrats, was, in fact, on these objective conditions of production.

而且他们的关注点，和重农主义的关注点一样，实际上是建立在这些生产的客观条件上。

en-zh-cn

They also looked, for example, at the class struggle.

他们也关注，例如阶级斗争。

en-zh-cn

Their understanding of wages had to do with the objective, if you want, power relationships, the bargaining power of capital and labor.

A compreensão deles dos salários tinha a ver com o objetivo, as relações de poder de barganha do capital e do trabalho.

en-pt-br

But again, factories, machines, division of labor, agricultural land and what was happening to it.

Pero, de nuevo, las fábricas, las máquinas, la división del trabajo, tierras agrícolas es lo que se aglutinaba en ellas.

en-es

So the big revolution that then happened -- and this, by the way, is not often taught in economics classes -- the big revolution that happened with the current system of economic thinking that we have, which is called "neoclassical economics," was that the logic completely changed.

Então, a grande revolução que aconteceu na época... e isso, a propósito, nem sempre é ensinado em aulas de economia, com o sistema atual do pensamento econômico que temos, chamado de "economia neoclássica", foi que a lógica mudou totalmente em duas maneiras:

en-pt-br

It changed in two ways.

È cambiata in due modi.

en-it

It changed from this focus on objective conditions to subjective ones.

deste foco em condições objetivas para subjetivas.

en-pt-br

Let me explain what I mean by that.

Déjenme explicarles lo que quiero decir con eso.

en-es

Objective, in the way I just said.

客观，就是我之前说的方式。

en-zh-cn

Subjective, in the sense that all the attention went to how individuals of different sorts make their decisions.

Subjetivo, no sentido em que toda a atenção ia para a forma como os indivíduos tomam as suas decisões.

en-pt

OK, so workers are maximizing their choices of leisure versus work.

노동자들은 노동과 여가에 대한 자신들의 선택을 극대화합니다.

en-ko

Consumers are maximizing their so-called utility, which is a proxy for happiness, and firms are maximizing their profits.

Os consumidores maximizam a sua chamada utilidade, que representa a felicidade, e as empresas maximizam os seus lucros.

en-pt

And the idea behind this was that then we can aggregate this up, and we see what that turns into, which are these nice, fancy supply-and-demand curves which produce a price, an equilibrium price.

이러한 경제 사고체계를 뒷받침하는 생각은 이러한 것들을 모두 종합할 때 어떠한 일이 발생할지 알 수 있다는 것입니다. 그렇게 종합한 결과가 바로 이러한 멋진 수요-공급 그래프이고 가격 또는 균형가격이 계산됩니다.

en-ko

It's an equilibrium price, because we also added to it a lot of Newtonian physics equations where centers of gravity are very much part of the organizing principle.

交叉點是一個均衡價格因為我們也納入許多牛頓的物理等式重心就是組織原則的一部分

en-zh-tw

But the second point here is that that equilibrium price, or prices, reveal value.

il secondo punto è che quel prezzo, o prezzi, di equilibrio rivelano il valore.

en-it

So the revolution here is a change from objective to subjective, but also the logic is no longer one of what is value, how is it being determined, what is the reproductive potential of the economy, which then leads to a theory of price but rather the reverse: a theory of price and exchange which reveals value.

此（經濟理論）變革不只從客觀變為主觀觀點邏輯也變為不再考慮什麼有價值如何決定價值經濟體系的再生產潛力有多大（上述不再）決定價格反而是正好相反：由價格和交換理論揭示其價值

en-zh-tw

Now, this is a huge change.

Questo è un cambiamento enorme.

en-it

And it's not just an academic exercise, as fascinating as that might be.

E non è solo un esercizio accademico, per quanto affascinante possa essere.

en-it

It affects how we measure growth.

Isto afeta a forma como medimos o crescimento.

en-pt

It affects how we steer economies to produce more of some activities, less of others, how we also remunerate some activities more than others.

זה משפיע על ניהול הכלכלה שלנו כך שתפיק יותר פעילויות מסוימות ופחות פעילויות אחרות, איך אנו מתמחרים יותר פעילויות מסוימות מאשר אחרות.

en-he

And it also just kind of makes you think, you know, are you happy to get out of bed if you're a value creator or not, and how is the price system itself if you aren't determining that?

这也多少让你思考，假如你是否是个价值创造者，你会开心地起床吗，以及如果你无法决定价格，那价格系统自身如何决定价格？

en-zh-cn

I mentioned it affects how we think about output.

? Mencioné que afecta a la forma como pensamos sobre la producción.

en-es

If we only include, for example, in GDP, those activities that have prices, all sorts of really weird things happen.

Se includiamo, per esempio, solo il PIL, quelle attività a cui è assegnato un prezzo, succedono ogni sorta di bizzarre conseguenze.

en-it

Feminist economists and environmental economists have actually written about this quite a bit.

Economistas feministas e ambientalistas têm escrito bastante sobre isso.

en-pt-br

If you marry your babysitter, GDP will go down, so do not do it.

如果你娶了你家的褓姆 GDP會下降

en-zh-tw

Do not be tempted to do this, OK?

Ayartmaya kapılıp bunu yapmayın, tamam mı?

en-tr

Because an activity that perhaps was before being paid for is still being done but is no longer paid.

因为一项原本可被支付的活动尽管会照常进行，但结了婚，就没有“付钱”的环节了。

en-zh-cn

(Laughter) If you pollute, GDP goes up.

Se você polui, o PIB aumenta.

en-pt-br

Still don't do it, but if you do it, you'll help the economy.

이것도 하시면 안 되지만 만약 한다면 경제를 돕게 됩니다.

en-ko

Why? Because we have to actually pay someone to clean it.

Zašto? Zato jer nekome zapravo moramo platiti da to očisti.

en-hr

Now, what's also really interesting is what happened to finance in the financial sector in GDP.

Također je zaista zanimljivo ono što se dogodilo s financijama u financijskom sektoru BDP-a.

en-hr

This also, by the way, is something I'm always surprised that many economists don't know.

Bu arada, bu durum birçok ekonomistin bilmemesine hep şaşırdığım bir şey.

en-tr

Up until 1970, most of the financial sector was not even included in GDP.

1970 年以前大部分金融產業還未納入 GDP 計算

en-zh-tw

It was kind of indirectly, perhaps not knowingly, still being seen through the eyes of the Physiocrats as just kind of moving stuff around, not actually producing anything new.

간접적으로 혹은 자신도 모르게 중농학파 경제학자의 시각으로 본다면 금융은 생산물을 단순히 이동시키는 활동일 뿐, 새로운 것을 생산하는 활동으로 보이지 않았습니다.

en-ko

So only those activities that had an explicit price were included.

所以只有那些明确的价格活动才被包含进去。

en-zh-cn

For example, if you went to get a mortgage, you were charged a fee.

Por exemplo, para ter uma hipoteca era cobrada uma taxa.

en-pt

That went into GDP and the national income and product accounting.

이러한 수수료는 GDP와 국민소득계정에 포함되었습니다.

en-ko

But, for example, net interest payments didn't, the difference between what banks were earning in interest if they gave you a loan and what they were paying out for a deposit.

אבל לא תשלומי הריבית נטו, לדוגמא. ההפרש בין מה שהבנקים הרוויחו מהריבית כשנתנו לכם הלוואה, לבין מה שהם שילמו על פקדון,

en-he

That wasn't being included.

포함되지 않았습니다.

en-ko

And so the people doing the accounting started to look at some data, which started to show that the size of finance and these net interest payments were actually growing substantially.

그러다가 회계업무를 보는 사람들이 자료를 들여다보기 시작했는데, 금융업의 크기와 이러한 순이자 수익이 상당히 커지고 있다는 사실을 발견합니다.

en-ko

And they called this the "banking problem."

他們稱這個現象為「銀行業問題」

en-zh-tw