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re final solution for gaza in article igc apc org center for policy research cpr igc apc org writes final solution for the gaza ghetto while israeli jews fete the uprising of the warsaw ghetto they repress by violent means the uprising of the gaza ghetto and attempt to starve the gazans elias should the families of the children who were stabbed in their high school by a palestinian freedom fighter be the ones who offer their help to the gazans perhaps it should be the families of the israelis who were murdered last month by palestinian freedom fighters the jews in the warsaw ghetto were fighting to keep themselves and their families from being sent to nazi gas chambers groups like hamas and the islamic jihad fight with the expressed purpose of driving all jews into the sea perhaps we should persuade jewish people to help these wnderful freedom fighters attain this ultimate goal maybe the freedom fighters will choose to spare the co operative jews is that what you are counting on elias the pity of murderers you say your mother was jewish how ashamed she must be of her son i am sorry mrs davidsson harry
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zionism the following flyer was distributed at aipac s th annual policy conference because when we re not in israel we re told to go back where we came from and when we come back to israel we re told to go back to where we came from and when we re vocal we have too much influence and when we are quiet we can afford to be because we we control everything anyway and when we buy something we can afford to because jews are so rich and when we don t buy something it s because we re cheap and because when we are poor we re called dirty jew and ignorant and when we re not we re called called rich jew and jap and when we are visibly organized it s because there is a secret jewish conspiracy and when we re not it is because there is a secret jewish conspiracy and because we re told we re not a people and when we say we are we re still told that we re not and when we marry our own people we re called racist and we don t we re contaminating someone else s race and because we re under fire from the left and from the right and because there are whites who hate us for not being white and because there are non whites who hate us for being white and because anti semitic incidents are rising every year but we re told that anti semitism doesn t exist or that we re paranoid and because we re told to shut up about the holocaust and yet holocaust revisionism is risng every year and when we are obnoxious we re called japs and when we are nice we re told we don t act jewish and because anti semitism is now world wide and because our people is not yet free and because we do not have to complete the work but neither are we free to desist from it for these reasons and many many more we are part of the jewish national liberation movement zionism
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method employed by the armenians in genocide of the muslim people source men are like that by leonard ramsden hartill the bobbs merrill company indianapolis pages memoirs of an armenian officer who participated in the genocide of million muslim people p first paragraph in this movement we took with us three thousand turkish soldiers who had been captured by the russians and left on our hands when the russians abandoned the struggle during our retreat to karaklis two thousand of these poor devils were cruelly put to death i was sickened by the brutality displayed but could not make any effective protest some mercifully were shot many of them were burned to death the method employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut and then after crowding the hut with turks set fire to the straw serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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the scenario and genocide staged by the armenians years ago the scenario and genocide staged by the armenians years ago in x soviet armenia is being reenacted again this time in azerbaijan the stories of survivors of karabag massacre are in milliyet today year old hatin nine telling my twin grandchildren were cut to pieces in front of my eyes they told me we won t kill you but the babies have to die in front of your eyes year old huseyin ibrahimoglu our turkish village in khojalu town was blown up in two hours while killing children and babies mercilessly they said you are turks you must die year old gulsum huseyin they bayonetted my year old daughter in her stomach in front of my eyes are these stories lies have the eye witnesses been day dreaming were these stories forged by turkish journalists in the region the nonsense of such a claim is clear from the writings of british journalists too two days before we had quoted from a sunday times article they british reported the events in karabag even before turkish journalists what is more here are the pictures pictures of people who were bayonetted whose eyes were gouged ears cut off even the armenian radio couldn t claim these lies they are saying exaggeration that means somethings have happened but the situation is not as bad as reported perhaps that village of khojalu town was destroyed in hours instead of or gulsum huseyin s year old daughter was bayonetted in her chest instead of stomach the massacre is clearly seen with all its dimensions the effects of this massacre on karabag and environs cannot be reduced by any word some of the western press led by some french newspapers ability to close their eyes is nothing but complicity in this massacre yesterday we gave samples from le figaro until yesterday s print no news about the real events in karabag were printed so were the french tv channels the subject they considered related to karabag was the necessity of protecting armenians against azeri attacks the age we are living in is termed a human rights age there are lots of organizations such as united nations and csce conference on security and cooperation in europe and rules all designed to fight against human rights violations international reactions must be made with international cooperation with support of everybody and every organization claiming to be civilized could there be a more serious human rights violation than that of the right to live and with such levels of barbarity and cruelty where is the cooperation where are the reactions and the intellectuals journalists writers tv stations of certain western countries such as france who are fast to claim leadership of human rights where are you serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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it was an encore performance staged by the armenians during wwi in while the jews were being assembled for their doom in the nazi concentration camps the nazi armenians in germany formed the first armenian battalion to fight alongside the nazis in this battalion had grown into eight battalions of strong under the command of dro the butcher who is the architect of the cold blooded genocide of million turks and kurds between an armenian national council was formed by the notorious dashnak party leaders in berlin which was recognized by the nazis encouraged by this the armenians summarily formed a provisional government that endorsed and espoused fully the principles of the nazis and declared themselves as the members of the aryan super race and full participants to hitler s policy of extermination of the jews this armenian nazi conspiracy against the jews during wwii was an encore performance staged by the armenians during wwi when they back stabbed and exterminated million turks by colluding with the invading russian army source adventures in the near east by a rawlinson jonathan cape bedford square london first published pages memoirs of a british officer who witnessed the armenian genocide of million muslim people p second paragraph i had received further very definite information of horrors that had been committed by the armenian soldiery in kars plain and as i had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their treatment of my own detached parties i had wired to tiflis from zivin that in the interests of humanity the armenians should not be left in independent command of the moslem population as their troops being without discipline and not under effective control atrocities were constantly being committed for which we should with justice eventually be held to be morally responsible serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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let the turks speak for themselves in article apr cs yale edu karage scus ctstateu edu angelos karageorgiou writes if turks in greece were so badly mistreated how come they elected two m not one but two representatives in the greek government pardon me greece government rail roads two turkish ethnic deputies while world human rights organizations scream greeks persistently work on removing the parliamentary immunity of dr sadik ahmet and mr ahmet faikoglu dr sadik ahmet turkish ethnic member of greek parliament visits us washington dc july doctor sadik ahmet one of the two ethnic turkish members of the greek parliament visited us on june through july th and held meetings with human rights organizations and high level us officials in washington dc and new york at his press conference at the national press club in washington dc sadik ahmet explained the plight of ethnic turks in greece and stated six demands from greek government ahmet said our only hope in greece is the pressure generated from western capitals for insisting that greece respects the human rights what we are having done to ethnic turks in greece is exactly the same as south african apartheid he added what we are facing is pure greek hatred and racial discrimination spelling out the demands of the turkish ethnic community in greece he said we want the restoration of greek citizenship of ethnic turks their citizenship was revoked by using the excuse that this people have stayed out of greece for too long they are greek citizens and are residing in greece even one of them is actively serving in the greek army besides other non turkish citizens of greece are not subject to this kind of interpretation at an extent that many of greek americans have greek citizenship and they permanently live in the united states we want guarantee for turkish minority s equal rights we want greek government to accept the turkish minority and grant us our civil rights our people are waiting since years to get driving licenses the greek government is not granting building permits to turks for renovating our buildings or building new ones if your name is turkish you are not hired to the government offices furthermore we want greek government to give us equal opportunity in business they do not grant licenses so we can participate in the economic life of greece in my case they denied me a medical license necessary for practicing surgery in greek hospitals despite the fact that i have finished a greek medical school and followed all the necessary steps in my career we want freedom of expression for ethnic turks we are not allowed to call ourselves turks i myself have been subject of a number of law suits and even have been imprisoned just because i called myself a turk we also want greek government to provide freedom of religion in separate interview with the turkish times dr sadik ahmet stated that the conditions of ethnic turks are deplorable and in the eyes of greek laws ethnic greeks are more equal than ethnic turks as an example he said there are about telephone subscribers in selanik thessaloniki and only about of them are turks that is not because turks do not want to have telephone services at their home and businesses he said that greek government changed the election law just to keep him out of the parliament as an independent representative and they stated this fact openly to him while there is no minimum qualification requirement for parties in terms of receiving at least of the votes they imposed this requirement for the independent parties including the turkish candidates ahmet was born in a small village at gumulcine komotini greece he earned his medical degree at university of thessaloniki in he served in the greek military as an infantryman in he got involved with community affairs for the first time by collecting signatures to protest the unjust implementation of laws against ethnic turks in he was arrested by the police for collecting signatures serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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role of sdpa org in slaughter of gunduz ariyak arikan benler in article apr urartu sdpa org hla urartu sdpa org writes sure it is it tells us how far right the whole turkish political spectrum nobody ever exposed your crimes like that before what was your personal role in the murder of orhan gunduz and kemal arikan again how many more muslims will be slaughtered by sdpa org as publicly declared and filed with legal authorities please spell it out for us that more people have to die sdpa urartu uucp yes i stated this and stand by it sdpa urartu uucp january los angeles kemal arikan is slaughtered by two armenians while driving to work march cambridge massachusetts prelude to grisly murder a gift and import shop belonging to orhan gunduz is blown up gunduz receives an ultimatum either he gives up his honorary position or he will be executed he refuses responsibility is claimed by jcag and sdpa may cambridge massachusetts orhan gunduz the turkish honorary consul in boston would not bow to the armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of honorary consul now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood president reagan orders an all out manhunt to no avail an eye witness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down he survives but falls silent one of the most revolting triumphs in the senseless mindless history of armenian terrorism such a murder brings absolutely nothing except an ego boost for the murderer within the armenian terrorist underworld which is already wallowing in self satisfaction were you involved in the murder of sarik ariyak december sydney two nazi armenians massacre sarik ariyak and his bodyguard engin sever jcag and sdpa claim responsibility it is public knowledge that the founder of the marxist leninist terrorist organization the asala an integral part of asala sdpa arf hagop hagopian began his notorious career as a member of the terrorist group which perpetrated the massacre of the israeli athletes at the munich olympics in and the armenian foundation stole from the children of turkiye to fund the criminal activities of the asala sdpa arf terrorists in their cold blooded murder of defenceless turkish and kurdish people the armenian foundation provided billion tl to asala milliyet the armenian foundation based in istanbul is found to have provided billion turkish lira million to the armenian terrorist organization asala which have murdered several turkish diplomats abroad experts on international terrorism assert that the armenian terrorists use proceeds from drug trafficking and from the armenian foundation to fund their deadly enterprises the deadliest of terrorist assassins carlos proclaimed on spanish television that his organization had entered into a working relationship with armenian terrorists and they are using drug trafficking to raise money to continue to slaughter innocent people now what is your personal and organizational role in this scheme recent reports which have been confirmed by the u s administration indicate that armenian terrorist organizations are collaborating with those who are responsible for the bombing of the united states marine barracks in beirut you won t be able to get away with your crimes forever the justice is long overdue as for the armenian genocide of million muslim people between and source documents volume i document no archive no cabin no drawer no file no section no contents no to the office of acting supreme commander acting assistant section director major ali sukru it is sufficient to mention just some of the terrible and shameful crimes committed only in erzurum to get an idea about the armenian atrocities in the villages i would also like to mention with disgust and abominable sight a stain on humanity that i encountered at the west of hasankale while my regiment was proceeding into this town there was a young turkish women apparently once a very beautiful one lying dead on one side of the road a huge stick had been inserted into her vagina we took the corpses and left it at a spot that was invisible from the road serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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re was go hezbollah in article apr ncsu edu hernlem chess ncsu edu brad hernlem writes in article bce news service uci edu tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock writes in article apr yuma acns colostate edu bh lance colostate edu writes tim you are ignoring the fact that the palestinians in lebanon have been disarmed hezbollah remains the only independent militia hezbollah does not attack israel except at a few times such as when the idf burned up sheikh mosavi his wife and young son of course if israel would withdraw from lebanon and stop assassinating people and shelling villages they wouldn t make the lebanese so mad as to do that furthermore with hezbollah subsequently disarmed it would not be possible just to address this one point what about the two katyusha rocket attacks made within lebanon for which fatah claimed responsibility i didn t realize that one can use katyushas while onr is disarmed also page of today s new york times faisal saleh a high ranking fatah official and his month old son were gunned down in beirut by members of abu nidal there have been assasination attempts in alone in the fued between these two factions resulting in deaths amir
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re kol israel broacasts in article apr jarvis csri toronto edu gfeygin unicorn eecg toronto edu gennady feygin writes does anyone have a schedule of kol israel broadcasts in different languages that could be posted or e mailed to me your assistance would be greatly appreciated gf try thr rec radio shortwave newsgroup
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forged posting forged posting forged posting the following posting was forged in my name please ignore such postings forged newsgroups soc culture turkish talk politics mideast talk politics forged soviet soc culture greek forged from dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian forged news software vax vms vnews forged organization university of tennessee computing center forged date fri apr gmt forged lines forged forged dear friends forged forged i am a graduate student in education at the university of tennessee forged forged forged forged questionnaire forged teaching music for deaf children forged forged name forged address e mail forged employing institution forged years of experience grade level s forged educational background bachelor masters doctorate forged professional field special educ music educ other the above posting was forged in my name please ignore such postings david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org how do we explain turkish troops on s d p a center for regional studies the armenian border when we can t p o box even explain cambridge ma turkish mp march
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re hamza salah the humanist dzk cs brown edu danny keren writes he he the great humanist speaks one has to read mr salah s posters in which he decribes jews as sons of pigs and monkeys keeps promising the final battle between muslims and jews in which the stons and the trees will cry for the muslims to come and kill the jews hiding behind them makes jokes about jews dying from heart attacks etc to realize his objective stance on the matters involved danny keren don t worry danny every blatantly violent and abusive posting made by hamzah is immediately forwarded to the operator of the system in which he has an account i d imagine they have quite a file started on this fruitcake and have already indicated that they have rules governing racist and threatening use of their resources i d imagine he ll be out of our hair in a short while todd
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re israeli terrorism i think the israeli press might be a tad bit biased in reporting the events i doubt the propaganda machine of goering reported accurately on what was happening in germany it is interesting that you are basing the truth on israeli propaganda
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re binyamin netanyahu on cnn tonight in article apr ncrcae columbiasc ncr com nabil ncrcol columbiasc ncr com nabil idriss writes arab leaders don t have to cheat they are actually allowed to have four wives are you implying above that arab leaders are gays aren t there jewish gays too arab leaders are now following by islamic rules or is it only applicable in cases like this i remember an article of about a year ago which stated that besides his wife saddam also has a mistress assad s brother has a wife and several mistresses and those emirs in the gulf have within their lifetimes wives in the double digitas only they manage to keep four at a time this is all irrelevant it takes a lot more than infidelity to make these leaders ruthless and corrupt maybe netanyahu thought he could cleanse himself by making such a public confession does the average secular israeli care though the mossad probably applauded him
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re israeli terrorism ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i think the israeli press might be a tad bit biased in reporting the events i doubt the propaganda machine of goering reported accurately on what was happening in germany it is interesting that you are basing the truth on israeli propaganda if you consider israeli reporting of events in israel to be propoganda then consider the washington post s handling of american events to be propoganda too what makes the israeli press inherently biased in your opinion i wouldn t compare it to nazi propoganda either unless you want to provide some evidence of israeli inaccuracies or parallels to nazism i suggest you keep your mouth shut i m sick and tired of all you anti semites comparing israel to the nazis and yes in my opinion if you compare israel to the nazis you are an anti semite because you know damn well it isn t true and you are just trying to discredit israel ed
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re israeli terrorism in article apr virginia edu ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i think the israeli press might be a tad bit biased in reporting the events i doubt the propaganda machine of goering reported accurately on what was happening in germany it is interesting that you are basing the truth on israeli propaganda since one is also unlikely to get the truth from either arab or palestinian news outlets where do we go to understand to learn is one form of propoganda more reliable than another the only way to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer s political agenda whether it is on or against our side tim tim clock ph d graduate student uci tel department of politics and society fax university of california irvine home tel irvine ca
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after all armenians exterminated million muslim people there in article c y o a news cso uiuc edu hovig uxa cso uiuc edu hovig heghinian writes article i have no partisan interests i would just like to know what conversations between terpetrosyan and demirel sound like very simple x soviet armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide against million muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations to the turks and kurds after all your criminal grandparents exterminated million muslim people between and c yybt zo news cso uiuc edu hovig uxa cso uiuc edu hovig heghinian to which i say hear hear motion seconded you must be a new armenian clown you are counting on asala sdpa arf crooks and criminals to prove something for you no wonder you are in such a mess that criminal idiot and its forged non existent junk has already been trashed out by mutlu cosar akgun uludamar akman oflazer and hundreds of people moreover asala sdpa arf criminals are responsible for the massacre of the turkish people that also prevent them from entering turkiye and trnc sdpa has yet to renounce its charter which specifically calls for the second genocide of the turkish people this racist barbarian and criminal view has been touted by the fascist x soviet armenian government as merely a step on the road to said genocide now where shall i begin from ahmet eecg toronto edu parlakbilek ahmet subject yalanci liar davidian keywords davidian the biggest liar message id jan jarvis csri toronto edu following is the article that davidian claims that hasan mutlu is a liar from dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian message id urartu sdpa org in article jan jarvis csri toronto edu ahmet eecg toronto edu ahmet parlakbilek asked a simple question ap i am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu coras or any other ap turk was proven to lie i can show tens of lies and fabrications of ap davidian like changing quote even changing name of a book anna the obvious ridiculous armenians murdered million moslems is the most outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all you are obviously new on this net so read the following sample not one but three proven lies in one day start yalanci txt some parts are deleted in article aug cbnewsd att com the usenet scribe for the turkish historical society hbm cbnewsd att com hasan b mutlu continues to revise the history of the armenian people let s witness the operational definition of a revisionist yalanci or liar in turkish yalanci according to leo yalanci yalanci the situation is clear on one side we have peace loving turks yalanci and on the other side peace loving armenians both sides minding yalanci their own affairs then all was submerged in blood and fire indeed yalanci the war was actually being waged between the committee of yalanci dashnaktsutiun and the society of ittihad and terakki a cruel and yalanci savage war in defense of party political interests the dashnaks yalanci incited revolts which relied on russian bayonets for their success yalanci yalanci l kuper genocide its political use in the twentieth century yalanci new york p this text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries on page we find a discussion of related atrocities which is title of the chapter the topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the sub commission on prevention of discrimination of minorities of the commission on human rights of the united nations with respect to the massacres in cambodia there is no mention of turks nor armenians as claimed above vay sarsak vay yobaz vay yalanci vay turk milletinin yuz karasi mutlu vay the depth of foolishness the turkish historical society engages in while covering up the turkish genocide of the armenians is only surpassed by the ridiculous historical material publicly displayed david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org the life of a people is a sea and receiving this message i checked the reference l kuper genocide and what i have found was totally consistent with what davidian said the book was like voice of armenian revolutionists and although i read the whole book i could not find the original quota but there was one more thing to check the original posting of mutlu i found the original article of mutlu it is as follows according to leo the situation is clear on one side we have peace loving turks and on the other side peace loving armenians both sides minding their own affairs then all was submerged in blood and fire indeed the war was actually being waged between the committee of dashnaktsutiun and the society of ittihad and terakki a cruel and savage war in defense of party political interests the dashnaks incited revolts which relied on russian bayonets for their success b a leo the ideology of the armenian revolution in turkey vol ii p quato is the same reference is different davidian lied again and this time he changed the original posting of mutlu just to accuse him to be a liar davidian thank you for writing the page number correctly you are the biggest liar i have ever seen this example showed me that tomorrow you can lie again and you may try to make me a liar this time so i decided not to read your articles and not to write answers to you i also advise all the netters to do the same we can not prevent your lies but at least we may save time by not dealing with your lies and for the following line vay sarsak vay yobaz vay yalanci vay turk milletinin yuz karasi mutlu vay i also return all the insults you wrote about mutlu to you i hope you will be drowned in your lies ahmet parlakbilek from vd cunixb cc columbia edu vedat dogan message id apr news columbia edu in article apr urartu sdpa org dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian writes in article apr news columbia edu vd cunixb cc columbia edu vedat dogan wrote in response to article mar urartu sdpa org dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian writes source adventures in the near east by a rawlinson jonathan cape bedford square london first published pages dd such a pile of garbage first off the above reference was first published dd in not and has pages not second upon checking page dd we are asked to believe vd no mr davidian vd it was first published in i have the book on my desk now vd vd and furthermore the book i have does not have pages either as you vd claimed mr davidian it has pages any question well it seems your book has its total page numbers closer to mine than the n crap posted by mr o boy please can you tell us why those quotes are crap because you do not like them because they really exist why as i said in my previous posting those quotes exactly exist in the source given by serdar argic you couldn t reject it in addition the author s preface was written on january but the book was published in here we go again in the book i have both the front page and the author s preface give the same year and january respectively anyone can check it at her his library if not i can send you the copies of pages please ask by sct i really don t care what year it was first published or what i care about is what the book writes about murders tortures et in the given quotes by serdar argic and your denial of these quotes and your groundless accussations etc dd i can provide gif postings if required to verify my claim vd what is new i will post a gif file but i am not going go through the effort to show there is some turkish modified re publication of the book like last time i claim i have a book in my hand published in first publication and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published in serdar argic s reference has you couldn t reject it but now you are avoiding the real issues by twisting around let s see how you lie from non existing quotes to re publication first you said there was no such a quote in the given reference you called serdar argic a liar i said to you no mr davidian there exactly existed such a quote i even gave the call number page numbers you could t reject it and now you are lying again and talking about modified re published book without any proof how when where by whom etc by the way how is it possible to re publish the book in if it was first published in your claim i am sure that you have some pretty well suited theories as usual and i am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who wants to compare the fact and mr davidian s lies i also give the call number and page numbers again for the library use which are r and the page numbers to verify the quotes and it is not possible that s text has pages mine has and yours has now are you claiming that there can t be such a reference by saying it is not possible if not what is your point differences in the number of pages mine was published in serdar argic s was in no need to use the same book size and the same letter charachter in both publications etc etc does it give you an idea the issue was not the number of pages the book has or the year first published and you tried to hide the whole point the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about how moslems are killed tortured etc by armenians and those quotes given by serdar argic exist it was the issue wasn t it you were not able to object it does it bother you anyway you name all these tortures and murders by armenians as a crap people who think like you are among the main reasons why the world still has so many craps in the any question c wwqa wl news cso uiuc edu hovig uxa cso uiuc edu hovig heghinian hmm turks sure know how to keep track of deaths but they seem to lose count around million well apparently we have another son of dro the butcher to contend with you should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries if you feel that you can simply act as an armenian governmental crony in this forum you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed this is not a lecture to another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist but a fact i will dissect article by article paragraph by paragraph line by line lie by lie revision by revision written by those on this net who plan to prove that the armenian genocide of million turks and kurds is nothing less than a classic un redressed genocide we are neither in x soviet union nor in some similar ultra nationalist fascist dictatorship that employs the dictates of hitler to quell domestic unrest also feel free to distribute all responses to your nearest asala sdpa arf terrorists the armenian pseudo scholars or to those affiliated with the armenian criminal organizations armenian government got away with the genocide of million turkish men women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide you and those like you will not get away with the genocide s cover up not a chance serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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after all armenians exterminated million muslim people there in article c y o a news cso uiuc edu hovig uxa cso uiuc edu hovig heghinian writes article i have no partisan interests i would just like to know what conversations between terpetrosyan and demirel sound like very simple x soviet armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide against million muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations to the turks and kurds after all your criminal grandparents exterminated million muslim people between and c yybt zo news cso uiuc edu hovig uxa cso uiuc edu hovig heghinian to which i say hear hear motion seconded you must be a new arromdian you are counting on asala sdpa arf crooks and criminals to prove something for you no wonder you are in such a mess that criminal idiot and its forged non existent junk has already been trashed out by mutlu cosar akgun uludamar akman oflazer and hundreds of people moreover asala sdpa arf criminals are responsible for the massacre of the turkish people that also prevent them from entering turkiye and trnc sdpa has yet to renounce its charter which specifically calls for the second genocide of the turkish people this racist barbarian and criminal view has been touted by the fascist x soviet armenian government as merely a step on the road to said genocide now where shall i begin from ahmet eecg toronto edu parlakbilek ahmet subject yalanci liar davidian keywords davidian the biggest liar message id jan jarvis csri toronto edu following is the article that davidian claims that hasan mutlu is a liar from dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian message id urartu sdpa org in article jan jarvis csri toronto edu ahmet eecg toronto edu ahmet parlakbilek asked a simple question ap i am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu coras or any other ap turk was proven to lie i can show tens of lies and fabrications of ap davidian like changing quote even changing name of a book anna the obvious ridiculous armenians murdered million moslems is the most outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all you are obviously new on this net so read the following sample not one but three proven lies in one day start yalanci txt some parts are deleted in article aug cbnewsd att com the usenet scribe for the turkish historical society hbm cbnewsd att com hasan b mutlu continues to revise the history of the armenian people let s witness the operational definition of a revisionist yalanci or liar in turkish yalanci according to leo yalanci yalanci the situation is clear on one side we have peace loving turks yalanci and on the other side peace loving armenians both sides minding yalanci their own affairs then all was submerged in blood and fire indeed yalanci the war was actually being waged between the committee of yalanci dashnaktsutiun and the society of ittihad and terakki a cruel and yalanci savage war in defense of party political interests the dashnaks yalanci incited revolts which relied on russian bayonets for their success yalanci yalanci l kuper genocide its political use in the twentieth century yalanci new york p this text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries on page we find a discussion of related atrocities which is title of the chapter the topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the sub commission on prevention of discrimination of minorities of the commission on human rights of the united nations with respect to the massacres in cambodia there is no mention of turks nor armenians as claimed above vay sarsak vay yobaz vay yalanci vay turk milletinin yuz karasi mutlu vay the depth of foolishness the turkish historical society engages in while covering up the turkish genocide of the armenians is only surpassed by the ridiculous historical material publicly displayed david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org the life of a people is a sea and receiving this message i checked the reference l kuper genocide and what i have found was totally consistent with what davidian said the book was like voice of armenian revolutionists and although i read the whole book i could not find the original quota but there was one more thing to check the original posting of mutlu i found the original article of mutlu it is as follows according to leo the situation is clear on one side we have peace loving turks and on the other side peace loving armenians both sides minding their own affairs then all was submerged in blood and fire indeed the war was actually being waged between the committee of dashnaktsutiun and the society of ittihad and terakki a cruel and savage war in defense of party political interests the dashnaks incited revolts which relied on russian bayonets for their success b a leo the ideology of the armenian revolution in turkey vol ii p quato is the same reference is different davidian lied again and this time he changed the original posting of mutlu just to accuse him to be a liar davidian thank you for writing the page number correctly you are the biggest liar i have ever seen this example showed me that tomorrow you can lie again and you may try to make me a liar this time so i decided not to read your articles and not to write answers to you i also advise all the netters to do the same we can not prevent your lies but at least we may save time by not dealing with your lies and for the following line vay sarsak vay yobaz vay yalanci vay turk milletinin yuz karasi mutlu vay i also return all the insults you wrote about mutlu to you i hope you will be drowned in your lies ahmet parlakbilek from vd cunixb cc columbia edu vedat dogan message id apr news columbia edu in article apr urartu sdpa org dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian writes in article apr news columbia edu vd cunixb cc columbia edu vedat dogan wrote in response to article mar urartu sdpa org dbd urartu sdpa org david davidian writes source adventures in the near east by a rawlinson jonathan cape bedford square london first published pages dd such a pile of garbage first off the above reference was first published dd in not and has pages not second upon checking page dd we are asked to believe vd no mr davidian vd it was first published in i have the book on my desk now vd vd and furthermore the book i have does not have pages either as you vd claimed mr davidian it has pages any question well it seems your book has its total page numbers closer to mine than the n crap posted by mr o boy please can you tell us why those quotes are crap because you do not like them because they really exist why as i said in my previous posting those quotes exactly exist in the source given by serdar argic you couldn t reject it in addition the author s preface was written on january but the book was published in here we go again in the book i have both the front page and the author s preface give the same year and january respectively anyone can check it at her his library if not i can send you the copies of pages please ask by sct i really don t care what year it was first published or what i care about is what the book writes about murders tortures et in the given quotes by serdar argic and your denial of these quotes and your groundless accussations etc dd i can provide gif postings if required to verify my claim vd what is new i will post a gif file but i am not going go through the effort to show there is some turkish modified re publication of the book like last time i claim i have a book in my hand published in first publication and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published in serdar argic s reference has you couldn t reject it but now you are avoiding the real issues by twisting around let s see how you lie from non existing quotes to re publication first you said there was no such a quote in the given reference you called serdar argic a liar i said to you no mr davidian there exactly existed such a quote i even gave the call number page numbers you could t reject it and now you are lying again and talking about modified re published book without any proof how when where by whom etc by the way how is it possible to re publish the book in if it was first published in your claim i am sure that you have some pretty well suited theories as usual and i am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who wants to compare the fact and mr davidian s lies i also give the call number and page numbers again for the library use which are r and the page numbers to verify the quotes and it is not possible that s text has pages mine has and yours has now are you claiming that there can t be such a reference by saying it is not possible if not what is your point differences in the number of pages mine was published in serdar argic s was in no need to use the same book size and the same letter charachter in both publications etc etc does it give you an idea the issue was not the number of pages the book has or the year first published and you tried to hide the whole point the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about how moslems are killed tortured etc by armenians and those quotes given by serdar argic exist it was the issue wasn t it you were not able to object it does it bother you anyway you name all these tortures and murders by armenians as a crap people who think like you are among the main reasons why the world still has so many craps in the any question c wwqa wl news cso uiuc edu hovig uxa cso uiuc edu hovig heghinian hmm turks sure know how to keep track of deaths but they seem to lose count around million well apparently we have another son of dro the butcher to contend with you should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries if you feel that you can simply act as an armenian governmental crony in this forum you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed this is not a lecture to another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist but a fact i will dissect article by article paragraph by paragraph line by line lie by lie revision by revision written by those on this net who plan to prove that the armenian genocide of million turks and kurds is nothing less than a classic un redressed genocide we are neither in x soviet union nor in some similar ultra nationalist fascist dictatorship that employs the dictates of hitler to quell domestic unrest also feel free to distribute all responses to your nearest asala sdpa arf terrorists the armenian pseudo scholars or to those affiliated with the armenian criminal organizations armenian government got away with the genocide of million turkish men women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide you and those like you will not get away with the genocide s cover up not a chance serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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re armenians will not get away with the genocide of azeri people in article c yxle ov cbfsb cb att com enis cbnewsg cb att com enis surensoy writes from article zuma uucp by sera zuma uucp serdar argic armenians will not get away with the genocide of azeri people on the contrary armenians will get away with the genocide of azeri people armenians already got away with raping torturing and massacering millions of innocent moslem peoples of eastern anatolia not this time enis furthermore a new generation has risen equipped with a deep sense of commitment politically mature and conscious who determinedly pursue the turkish cause through all necessary means ranging from the political and diplomatic to the armed struggle in other words what we have is a demand from the fascist government of x soviet armenia to redress the wrongs that were done against our people the crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination of the muslim population in the soviet republic of armenia karabag bosnia and herzegovina is an islamic holocaust comparable to the extermination of million muslims by the armenian government during the wwi and of over million european jews during the wwii tovfik kasimov azeri leader september today s ethnic cleansing policies by the serbian dictatorship against croatians and muslims of yugoslavia as well as the soviet republic of armenia s against the muslim population of neighboring azerbaijan are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide perpetrated by the armenian government years ago against the turkish and kurdish muslims and sephardic jews living in these lands cebbar leygara kurdish leader october serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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though his book was dealing with the genocide of muslims by armenians in article c y j hs blaze cs jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou cs jhu edu ken arromdee writes then repeat everything i said before with the word race related substituted for racist all that changes is the phrasing complaining that i used the wrong word is a quibble well your armenian grandparents were fascist as early as k s papazian asserted in patriotism perverted that the armenians lean toward fascism and hitlerism at that time he could not have foreseen that the armenians would actively assume a pro german stance and even collaborate in world war ii his book was dealing with the armenian genocide of turkish population of eastern anatolia however extreme rightwing ideological tendencies could be observed within the dashnagtzoutune long before the outbreak of the second world war in for example o zarmooni of the tzeghagrons was quoted in the hairenik weekly the race is force it is treasure if we follow history we shall see that races due to their innate force have created the nations and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to the race after becoming a nation today germany and italy are strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race on the other hand russia is comparatively weak because she is bereft of social sanctities k s papazian patriotism perverted boston baikar press preface hairenik weekly friday april the race is our refuge by o zarmooni serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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armenians exterminated million muslim people denying the obvious in article apr oucsace cs ohiou edu gassan ouvaxa cats ohiou edu writes after having read this group for some time i am appalled at its lack of scholarship its fuzzy thinking reliance on obsessed and obnoxious posters well these are armenian and jewish scholars not me denying the obvious source hovannisian richard g armenia on the road to independence university of california press berkeley and los angeles p the addition of the kars and batum oblasts to the empire increased the area of transcaucasia to over square miles the estimated population of the entire region in was of whom percent were armenian percent georgian and percent moslem of the latter group were tatars paradoxically barely one third of transcaucasia s armenians lived in the erevan guberniia where the christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds erevan uezd the administrative center of the province had only armenians as compared to moslems by the time of the russian census of however the armenians had established a scant majority percent in the guberniia it had risen by to percent or of the inhabitants this impressive change in the province s ethnic character notwithstanding there was on the eve of the creation of the armenian republic a solid block of tartars who continued to dominate the southern districts from the outskirts of ereven to the border of persia see also map historic armenia and map administrative subdivisions of transcaucasia in percent turk we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the tartars and then proceeded in the work of extermination our troops surrounded village after village little resistance was offered our artillery knocked the huts into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable and inhabitants fled from them into fields bullets and bayonets completed the work some of the tartars escaped of course they found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border into turkey the rest were killed and so it is that the whole length of the borderland of russian armenia from nakhitchevan to akhalkalaki from the hot plains of ararat to the cold mountain plateau of the north were dotted with mute mournful ruins of tartar villages they are quiet now those villages except for howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the scattered bones of the dead ohanus appressian men are like that p in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul it is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us create for ourselves it certainly is possible to severe the artificial life support system of an imagined ethnic purity that some of us falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats in this alien land sahak melkonian preserving the armenian purity apr walter bellcore com ddc nyquist bellcore com daniel dusan chukurov the world s inaction when the conflict began over the mostly christian armenian enclave inside muslim azerbaijan might have encouraged the conflict in bosnia herzegovina said the moscow based activist who s part armenian no kidding the armenians tore apart the ottoman empire s eastern provinces massacred million defenseless turkish women children and elderly people burned thousands of turkish and kurdish villages and exterminated the entire turkish population of the armenian dictatorship between such outrageous sleight of hand that is still employed today in armenia brings a depth and verification to the turkish genocide that is hard to match a hundred years ago armenians again thought they could get whatever they wanted through sheer terror like the russian anarchists that they accepted as role models several armenian terror groups like asala sdpa arf terrorism and revisionism triangle resorted to the same tactics in the s butchering scores of innocent turks and their families in the united states and europe it seems that they are doing it again at a different scale in fascist x soviet armenia today a merciless massacre of the civilian population of the small azeri town of khojali pop in karabagh azerbaijan is reported to have taken place on the night of feb under a coordinated military operation of the th mechanized division of the cis army and the armenian insurgents close to people are reported to have been massacred elderly and children were not spared many were badly beaten and shot at close range a sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed the azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped armenian insurgency the neighboring azeri city of aghdam outside of the karabagh region has come under heavy armenian artillery shelling city hospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant were killed azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to condemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its sovereignty serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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destroying ethnic identity turks of greece macedonians in article c yc k f news cso uiuc edu ptg uxa cso uiuc edu panos tamamidis writes sure your memory is weak let me refresh your memory if that s not to late first of all it is called istanbul let me even spell it for you i s t a n b u l when my grandfather came in greece the official name of the city was constantinoupolis are you related to arromdian of asala sdpa arf terrorism and revisionism triangle now read carefully the following and then speak the recent helsinki watch page report broken promises torture and ditto helsinki watch problems of turks in western thrace continue ankara a a in a page report of the helsinki watch it is stated that the turkish minority in western thrace is still faced with problems and stipulated that the discriminatory policy being implemented by the greek government be brought to an end the report on western thrace emphasized that the greek government should grant social and political rights to all the members of minorities that are equal to those enjoyed by greek citizens and in addition they must recognize the existence of the turkish minority in western thrace and grant them the right to identify themselves as turks newspot may greece isolates west thrace turks the xanthi independent mp ahmet faikoglu said that the greek state is trying to cut all contacts and relations of the turkish minority with turkey pointing out that while the greek minority living in istanbul is called greek by ethnic definition only the religion of the minority in western thrace is considered in an interview with the greek newspaper ethnos he said i am a greek citizen of turkish origin the individuals of the minority living in western trace are also turkish emphasizing the education problem for the turkish minority in western thrace faikoglu said that according to an agreement signed in greece must distribute textbooks printed in turkey in turkish minority schools in western thrace recalling his activities and those of komotini independent mp dr sadik ahmet to defend the rights of the turkish minority faikoglu said in fact we helped greece because we prevented greece the cradle of democracy from losing face before european countries by forcing the greek government to recognize our legal rights on turco greek relations he pointed out that both countries are predestined to live in peace for geographical and historical reasons and said that turkey and greece must resist the foreign powers who are trying to create a rift between them by cooperating adding that in turkey he observed that there was will to improve relations with greece newspot january macedonian human rights activists to face trial in greece two ethnic macedonian human rights activists will face trial in athens for alleged crimes against the greek state according to a court summons no obtained by mils hristos sideropoulos and tashko bulev or anastasios bulis have been charged under greek criminal law for making comments in an athenian magazine sideropoulos and bulev gave an interview to the greek weekly magazine ena on march and said that they as macedonians were denied basic human rights in greece and would field an ethnic macedonian candidate for the up coming greek general election bulev said in the interview i am not greek i am macedonian sideropoulos said in the article that greece should recognise macedonia the allegations regarding territorial aspirations against greece are tales we are in a panic to secure the border at a time when the borders and barriers within the eec are falling the main charge against the two according to the court summons was that they have spread intentionally false information which might create unrest and fear among the citizens and might affect the public security or harm the international interests of the country greece the greek state does not recognise the existence of a macedonian ethnicity there are believed to be between to ethnic macedonians living within greece largely concentrated in the north it is a crime against the greek state if anyone declares themselves macedonian in greece serbia yugoslavia and bulgaria partioned macedonia into three pieces in albania took macedonian villages the part under serbo yugoslav occupation broke away in as the independent republic of macedonia there are million macedonians in the republic in bulgaria in albania and in serbia proper sideropoulos has been a long time campaigner for macedonian human rights in greece and lost his job as a forestry worker a few years ago he was even exiled to an obscure greek island in the mediteranean only pressure from amnesty international forced the greek government to allow him to return to his home town of florina lerin in northern greece aegean macedonia where the majority of ethnic macedonians live balkan watchers see the sideropoulos affair as a show trial in which greece is desperate to clamp down on internal dissent especially when it comes to the issue of recognition for its northern neighbour the republic of macedonia last year the state department of the united states condemned greece for its bad treatment of ethnic macedonians and turks who largely live in western thrace but it remains to be seen if the us government will do anything until the presidential elections are over serdar argic we closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination ohanus appressian in soviet armenia today there no longer exists a single turkish soul sahak melkonian
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danny rubenstein talk danny rubenstein an israeli journalist will be speaking tonight wednesday pm on the messy subject of politics in israel he is speaking at hillel on the u c berkeley campus the talk is sponsored by the berkeley israel action committee iac adam schwartz adams robotics berkeley edu
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danny rubenstein speaking tonight danny rubenstein an israeli journalist will be speaking tonight wednesday pm on the messy subject of politics in israel he is speaking at hillel on the u c berkeley campus adam schwartz adams robotics berkeley edu
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go hizbollah ii from israel line thursday april today s ha aretz reports that three women were injured when a katyusha rocket fell in the center of their community the rocket was one of several dozen fired at the communities of the galilee in northern israel yesterday by the terrorist hizbullah organization in article apr ncsu edu hernlem chess ncsu edu brad hernlem wrote congratulations to the brave men of the lebanese resistance with every israeli son that you place in the grave you are underlining the moral bankruptcy of israel s occupation and drawing attention to the israeli government s policy of reckless disregard for civilian life apparently the hizbollah were encouraged by brad s cheers good job brad someone forgot to tell them though that brad asks them to place only israeli sons in the grave not daughters paraphrasing a bit with every rocket that the hizbollah fires on the galilee they justify israel s holding to the security zone noam
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re the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake dgannon techbook techbook com dan gannon writes the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake by theodore j o keefe holocaust revisionism theodore j o keefe is an editor with the institute for historical review educated at harvard university according to the harvard alumni directory mr o keefe failed to graduate you may decide for yourselves if he was indeed educated anywhere steven smith
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re hamza salah the humanist are you people sure his posts are being forwarded to his system operator who is forwarding them is there a similar file being kept on mr omran salam john absood marlow ceased and sat apart indistinct and silent in the pose of a meditating buddha nobody moved for a time the offing was barred by a black bank of clouds and the tranquil waterway leading to the utter most ends of the earth flowed sombre under an overcast sky seemed to
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to be exact million readers enlightened by serdar argic in article zuma uucp sera zuma uucp serdar argic writes a k a serdar argic the merciful and compassionate serdar argic s bountiful divine all knowing and footnoted wisdom is regrettably omitted for this solemn tribute where can i join the serdar argic fan club do i get a t shirt the friendly neighborhood alien life just hasn t been the same since david koresh died
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re israeli terrorism in a previous article tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock says in article apr virginia edu ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i think the israeli press might be a tad bit biased in reporting the events i doubt the propaganda machine of goering reported accurately on what was happening in germany it is interesting that you are basing the truth on israeli propaganda since one is also unlikely to get the truth from either arab or palestinian news outlets where do we go to understand to learn is one form of propoganda more reliable than another there are many neutral human rights organizations which always report on the situation in the o t but as most people used to see on tv the israelis do not allow them to go deep there in the o t the israelis used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters so this is another kind of terrorism committed by the jews in palestine they do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in palestine to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer s political agenda whether it is on or against our side tim anas omran
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re israel s expansion ii ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i understand how israel captured the teritory and feels that it is its right to annex it i can t fully understand why it has to deal with palestinians much the same way jews were treated before the holocaust the final solution by hitler what i totally don t get is why the u s has to subsidize the existance of such a thorough abuser of human rights just wondering seems that you re more just misinformed than just wondering the comparison you re making is not just totally off base but offensive to all sane people alan h stein astein israel nysernet org
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re hamza salah the humanist dzk cs brown edu danny keren writes cl cleveland freenet edu hamaza h salah writes well said mr beyer he he the great humanist speaks one has to read mr salah s posters in which he decribes jews as sons of pigs and monkeys keeps promising the final battle between muslims and jews in which the stons and the trees will cry for the muslims to come and kill the jews hiding behind them makes jokes about jews dying from heart attacks etc to realize his objective stance on the matters involved humanist or sub humanist alan h stein astein israel nysernet org
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re zionism is racism d c sessions dcs witsend tnet com writes so steve lets here what is zionism assuming that you mean hear you weren t listening he just told you zionism is racism this is a tautological statement i think you are confusing tautological with false and misleading alan h stein astein israel nysernet org
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re israeli terrorism cl cleveland freenet edu hamaza h salah writes would you tell me which arab country is prohipiting the jews from migrating to palestine the last arab country was syria but not all of them migrated due to the jewish state economical and securital dilemma as usual when salah is not totally racist she manages to get virtually all the facts wrong assad pledged to allow jews to leave syria but not to go to israel unfortunately not all of them have escaped yet but not because they don t want to leave rather assad went back on his word and stopped issuing travel permits he claimed bureaucratic snags but everyone knows it was a tactic to pressure israel alan h stein astein israel nysernet org
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re israeli terrorism would it be asking too much for you to document these allegations of israel used to arrest and kill neutral reporters i think you confuse israel with other nations of that geographical region to which the notion of a free unmonitored by the government press corps would be a joke as for the notion that israel threatens the human rights of palestinians by sealing off the gaza strip get real when the palestinian on palestinian civil war stops and all palestinians can behave like mature human beings israel will talk concessions on both sides for peace not before
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re israeli terrorism in article rd eo a usenet ins cwru edu cy cleveland freenet edu anas omran writes in a previous article tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock says in article apr virginia edu ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i think the israeli press might be a tad bit biased in reporting the events i doubt the propaganda machine of goering reported accurately on what was happening in germany it is interesting that you are basing the truth on israeli propaganda since one is also unlikely to get the truth from either arab or palestinian news outlets where do we go to understand to learn is one form of propoganda more reliable than another there are many neutral human rights organizations which always report on the situation in the o t but as most people used to see on tv the israelis do not allow them to go deep there in the o t the israelis used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters anas of course the yahud needed blood for the matza after all passover was last month why don t you give us your national geographic travelogue of your recent trip to palestine or are you too disappointed by what you saw josh backon vms huji ac il so this is another kind of terrorism committed by the jews in palestine they do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in palestine to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer s political agenda whether it is on or against our side tim anas omran
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re israeli terrorism cy cleveland freenet edu anas omran writes the israelis used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters eh could you please give me details about an event where a neutral observer was killed by purpose by an israeli soldier amos amos shapira jumper extraordinaire it is true that power corrupts c s system group hebrew university but absolute power is better jerusalem israel amoss cs huji ac il the demon to his son
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re israel s expansion ii what gives isreal the right to keep jeruseleum it is the home of the muslim a s well as jewish religion among others heck nobody ever mentions what yitza k shamir did forty or fifty years ago which is terrorize westerners much in the way abdul nidal does today seems isrealis are nowhere above arabs so theref ore they have a right to jerusaleum as much as isreal does
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re the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake in article r n d m techbook techbook com dgannon techbook techbook com dan gannon writes the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake by theodore j o keefe hard by the washington monument within clear view of the jefferson memorial an easy stroll down the mall to the majestic lincoln memorial has arisen on some of the most hallowed territory of the united states of america a costly and dangerous mistake on ground where no monument yet marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of americans of all races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation sits today a massive and costly edifice devoted above all to a contentious and false version of the ordeal in europe during world war ii of non american members of a minority sectarian group now in the deceptive guise of tolerance the united states holocaust memorial museum begins a propaganda campaign financed through the unwitting largess of the american taxpayer in the interests of israel and its adherents in america after reading the first paragraph a quick scan confirmed my first impression this is a bunch of revisionist and anti semitic hogwash the ny times reported on april that the museum was built through private contributions on federal land your hate mongering article is devoid of current and historical fact intellectual content and social value down the toilet it goes jake livni jake bony bony com ten years from now george bush will american occupied new york have replaced jimmy carter as the my opinions only employer has no opinions standard of a failed president
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re final solution in palestine in article hm apr angell cs brown edu hm cs brown edu harry mamaysky writes in article igc apc org center for policy research cpr igc apc org writes final solution for the gaza ghetto while israeli jews fete the uprising of the warsaw ghetto they repress by violent means the uprising of the gaza ghetto and attempt to starve the gazans the jews in the warsaw ghetto were fighting to keep themselves and their families from being sent to nazi gas chambers groups like hamas and the islamic jihad fight with the expressed purpose of driving all jews into the sea perhaps we should persuade jewish people to help these wnderful freedom fighters attain this ultimate goal maybe the freedom fighters will choose to spare the co operative jews is that what you are counting on elias the pity of murderers you say your mother was jewish how ashamed she must be of her son i am sorry mrs davidsson harry o k its my turn driving the jews into the sea i am sick and tired of this driving the jews into the sea sentance attributed to islamic movements and the plo it simply can t be proven as part of their plan pro israeli activists repeat it like parrots without checking its authenticity since it was coined by bnai brith what hamas and islamic jihad believe in as far as i can get from the arab media is an islamic state that protects the rights of all its inhabitants under koranic law this would be a reversal of the situation in which the jews in palestine took control of the land and its mostly muslim inhabitants however whoever committed crimes against humanity torture blowing up their homes murders must be treated and tried as a war criminal the political thought of these movements shows that a freedom of choice will be given to the jews in living under the new law or leaving to the destintion of their choice as for the plo i am at a loss to explain what is going inside arafat s mind although their political thinking seems far fetched with israel acting as a true super power in the region the islamic movements are using the same weapon the jews used to establish their state religion ahmed
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re israeli terrorism in article amoss apr shuldig cs huji ac il amoss shuldig cs huji ac il amos shapira writes cy cleveland freenet edu anas omran writes the israelis used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters eh could you please give me details about an event where a neutral observer was killed by purpose by an israeli soldier amos actually i m still trying to understand the self justifying rationale behind the recent murder of ian feinberg in gaza tim clock ph d graduate student uci tel department of politics and society fax university of california irvine home tel irvine ca
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re israel s expansion ii bc cleveland freenet edu writes the comparison of the palestinian situation with the holocaust is insulting and completely false any person making such a rude and false comparison is either ignorant of the holocaust or also ignorant of the situation in the mideast or is an anti semite to compare a complicated political situation with the genocide of jews is racist in and of itself first of all i never said the holocaust i said before the holocaust i m not ignorant of the holocaust and know more about nazi germany than most people maybe including you what i resent is ignorant statements that call people names when they disagree with your position opposing the atrocities commited by the israeli governement hardly qualifies as anti semitism if you think name calling is a valid form of argument in intellectual circles you need to get out more often i don t think the suffering of some jews during wwii justifies the crimes commited by the israeli government any attempt to call civil liberterians like myself anti semetic is not appreciated
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re israeli terrorism tclock orion oac uci edu writes since one is also unlikely to get the truth from either arab or palestinian news outlets where do we go to understand to learn is one form of propoganda more reliable than another the only way to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer s political agenda whether it is on or against our side tim first let me correct myself in that it was goerbels and not goering airforce who ran the nazi propaganda machine i agree that arab news sources are also inherently biased but i believe the statement i was reacting to was that since the american accounts of events are not fully like the israeli accounts the americans are biased i just thought that the israelis had more motivation for bias the un has tried many times to condemn israel for its gross violation of human rights however the us has vetoed most such attempts it is interesting to note that the u s is often the only country opposing such condemnation well the u s and israel it is also interesting to note that that means other western countries realize these human rights violations so maybe there are human rights violations going on after all
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freedom in u s a i have just started reading the articles in this news group there seems to be an attempt by some members to quiet other members with scare tactics i believe one posting said that all postings by one person are being forwarded to his server who keeps a file on him in hope that appropriate action might be taken i don t know where you guys are from but in america such attempts to curtail someones first amendment rights are not appreciated here we let everyone speak their mind regardless of how we feel about it take your fascistic repressive ideals back to where you came from
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re conventional proposales israel palestinians in article bce news service uci edu tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock writes in article bca dc news service uci edu tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock writes the latest israeli proposal first proposed in february of contains the following assumptions concerning the nature of any interim status refering to the wb and gaza the palestinians implemented by negotiations it states that israel will remain the existing source of authority until final status is agreed upon the exercise of powers under the isga will be subject to cooperation and coordination with israel israel will negotiate delegation of powers and responsibilities in the areas of administration justice personnel agriculture education business tourism labor and social welfare local police local transportation and communications municipal affairs and religious affairs the palestinian counterproposal of march there will be no limitations on its pisga powers and responsibilities except those which derive from its character as an interim arrangement it will have a strong police force responsible for security and public order in the opt it can request the assistance of a un peacekeeping force disputes with israel over self governing arrangements will be settled by a committee composed of representatives of the five permanent members of the un security council the secretary general of the un the pisga jordan egypt syria and israel i have read that there will be some concrete proposals concerning creation of a palestinian police force during the talk s next stage does anyone knows of the details of this idea how does it fit with the differing conceptions listed above tim clock ph d graduate student uci tel department of politics and society fax university of california irvine home tel irvine ca
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re investment in yehuda and shomron aryans who do not base their reasoning on nazi ideology are racists thus spoke an american citizen in the name of judaism if this is judaism i think judaism should be combatted as any extremist and dangerous philosophy i suspect however that martin buber albert einstein and other jewish scholars would have rather converted to christianity than stay jews if they would have perceived judaism as such a perverted philosophy those who wish to learn something about the perversion of judaism should consult the masterly work by yehoshua harkabi who was many years the head of israeli intelligence and an opponent of the plo his latest book was published in english and includes a very detailed analysis of judeo nazism
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re american jewish congress open letter to clinton in article apr vxcrna cern ch casper vxcrna cern ch casper davi ppe writes i must say i was appalled by the american jewish council s open letter america is not the world s policeman we cannot and should not take it upon ourselves to solve the problems of the entire world america s young men and women should not be sent to yugoslavia period if people feel strongly enough let them go as individuals to fight alongside the butchers of their choice we have a volunteer army the argument you gave only applies if we have a draft huh sorry i misread your remark about young men and women though i am now unsure what that sentence does mean furthermore people do not become butchers by being ethnic cleansed or do you automatically call them butchers because they are muslim i am disappointed in your logic especially coming from a stalwart of sci skeptic you implied that anyone who wants to send troops to bosnia wants to do so to help the butchers of their choice since the primary targets of help are muslim victims of ethnic cleansing you imply that such muslim victims are butchers people become butchers by butchering there have been atrocities on all sides this implies both sides are equal true it may sometimes be difficult or impossible to determine which side is the victim but that does not mean that victims do not exist would you in wwii have said that there were atrocities on the sides of both the jews and the germans these people have been butchering each other for centuries when one side wins and gets what it wants it will stop yes but both sides want different things the muslims chiefly want to not be ethnic cleansed the serbians want to ethnic cleanse the muslims it is indeed true that each side will stop when it gets what it wants but the things that the two sides want are not equivalent quite an impressive leap of reasoning to assume that i am so racist as to call someone a butcher because they are muslim in fact i think on the contrary the media fixation on this war as opposed to the dozens upon dozens of civil wars which have been fought in the recent past is because these are white people in europe when atrocities occur in the third world there is not as much news coverage and not nearly the same level of outrage i recall before we did anything for somalia apparent left wingers saying that the reason everyone was more willing to send troops to bosnia than to somalia was because the somalis are third worlders who americans consider unworthy of help they suddenly shut up when the us decided to send troops to the opposite place than that predicted by the theory for that matter this theory of yours suggests that americans should want to help the serbs after all they re christian and the muslims are not if the desire to intervene in bosnia is based on racism against people that are less like us why does everyone want to help the side that is less like us especially if both of the sides are equal as you seem to think on the first day after christmas my truelove served to me leftover turkey on the second day after christmas my truelove served to me turkey casserole that she made from leftover turkey days deleted flaming turkey wings pizza hut commercial and m tlu a gic bait ken arromdee arromdee jyusenkyou cs jhu edu
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re american jewish congress open letter to clinton in article apr vxcrna cern ch casper vxcrna cern ch casper davi ppe writes are you aware that there is an arms embargo on all of what is was yugoslavia including bosnia which guarantees massive military superiority of serbian forces and does not allow the bosnians to try to defend themselves should we sell weapons to all sides or just the losing one then ending an embargo does not we must sell anything at all if the europeans want to sell weapons to one or both sides they are welcome as far as i m concerned you seem to oppose ending the embargo you know it is difficult for europeans to sell weapons when there is an embargo in place i do not automatically accept the argument that bosnia is any worse than other recent civil wars say vietnam for instance the difference is it is happening to white people inside europe with lots of tv coverage but if this was the reason and if furthermore both sides are equal wouldn t all us racist americans be favoring the good christians serbs instead of the non christians we really seem to favor on the first day after christmas my truelove served to me leftover turkey on the second day after christmas my truelove served to me turkey casserole that she made from leftover turkey days deleted flaming turkey wings pizza hut commercial and m tlu a gic bait ken arromdee arromdee jyusenkyou cs jhu edu
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re american jewish congress open letter to clinton in article c vbnv cj blaze cs jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou cs jhu edu ken arromdee writes in article apr vxcrna cern ch casper vxcrna cern ch casper davi ppe writes i complained about the us taking the point in bosnia when the europeans should be doing it ken says the bosnians are morally superior to the serbians this implies both sides are equal true it may sometimes be difficult or impossible to determine which side is the victim but that does not mean that victims do not exist yes victims exist there are a staggering number of victims in the world and more each day i think on balance intervention would create more victims including american ones since the first responsibility of the us government is to protect americans i think they serve that role best by staying away from bosnia and other regional conflicts would you in wwii have said that there were atrocities on the sides of both the jews and the germans of course not the jews were not trying to carve a territory out of germany either and except for small scale resistance and a few larger uprisings did not have an army or a government these people have been butchering each other for centuries when one side wins and gets what it wants it will stop yes but both sides want different things the muslims chiefly want to not be ethnic cleansed the serbians want to ethnic cleanse the muslims it is indeed true that each side will stop when it gets what it wants but the things that the two sides want are not equivalent i see the pattern of atrocities as a fairly often practiced tactic of a colonizing power driving away and or eliminating the population of an area they want to control the us tried basically that in vietnam the iraqis in kuwait the israelis in palestine south africa etc etc etc it sucks it s ugly and it s saddening but it is not genocide it is not my impression that the serbs want to eliminate every muslim in yugoslavia i still say the bosnians are getting their asses kicked they should surrender and evacuate the areas they can t hold i said the fixation on bosnia is due to it being in a european country rather than the third world i recall before we did anything for somalia apparent left wingers saying that the reason everyone was more willing to send troops to bosnia than to somalia was because the somalis are third worlders who americans consider unworthy of help they suddenly shut up when the us decided to send troops to the opposite place than that predicted by the theory i am a staunch republican btw the irony of arguing against military intervention with arguments based on vietnam has not escaped me i was opposed to us intervention in somalia for the same reasons although clearly it was not nearly as risky for that matter this theory of yours suggests that americans should want to help the serbs after all they re christian and the muslims are not if the desire to intervene in bosnia is based on racism against people that are less like us why does everyone want to help the side that is less like us especially if both of the sides are equal as you seem to think well one thing you have to remember is the press likes a good story good for business don t you know and btw not everyone wants to help the side that is less like us i never said the two sides were morally equivalent i said neither one is innocent there are just too many good reasons to stay away the europeans are perfectly able to deal with this dispute on their borders in any way we do it put another way we have no assistance to offer the europeans which they do not already possess themselves it is not good to promote the idea in anyone s mind that the united states is responsible for cleaning up every bloody mess in the world clinton is not the man to lead this country into a military adventure full stop it is by no means clear what intervention would accomplish nor that it would necessarily help the victims it is not clear what the goal is and at what point any commitment could be ended
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re american jewish congress open letter to clinton in article c vbtk f blaze cs jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou cs jhu edu ken arromdee writes in article apr vxcrna cern ch casper vxcrna cern ch casper davi ppe writes are you aware that there is an arms embargo on all of what is was yugoslavia including bosnia which guarantees massive military superiority of serbian forces and does not allow the bosnians to try to defend themselves should we sell weapons to all sides or just the losing one then ending an embargo does not we must sell anything at all right we ll probably end up giving them weapons if the europeans want to sell weapons to one or both sides they are welcome as far as i m concerned you seem to oppose ending the embargo you know it is difficult for europeans to sell weapons when there is an embargo in place during wwii the british managed to supply arms to the yugoslavs despite german occupation if the europeans had the will to do anything besides sponsoring peace conferences they would have no problem putting any kind of weapon they wanted into bosnia i guess i would favor ending the embargo if the congress would pass a law forbidding export of us military supplies to yugoslavia including via third parties until then the risks of the us being drawn into a more active role would be too great i do not see the arms embargo as a major factor in the outcome of the war i do not automatically accept the argument that bosnia is any worse than other recent civil wars say vietnam for instance the difference is it is happening to white people inside europe with lots of tv coverage but if this was the reason and if furthermore both sides are equal wouldn t all us racist americans be favoring the good christians serbs instead of the non christians we really seem to favor both sides are certainly not equal in the eyes of the press and that s about all we have to go on isn t it and i wish you d quit hurling words like racist around there are many levels at which people react to what they see at the most fundamental level you do not have to consciously recognize the racial element you simply tend to empathize more with people who are like yourself as far preferring christian over moslem i am an atheist myself and i think you ll agree that in the us the majority of people do not typically discriminate on the basis of religion nor give it a particularly important place in their world view dave
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re killer in article apr doug cae wisc edu yamen cae wisc edu soner yamen responded to article r kr m q nic umass edu burak ucsvax ucs umass edu afs who wrote afs just a quick comment afs afs armenians killed turks turks killed armenians afs afs simple as that can anybody deny these facts jews killed germans in wwii germans killed jews in wwii but there was quite a difference in these two statements regardless of what nazi revisionists say sy my grand parents were living partly in todays armenia and partly in sy todays georgia there were villages kurd turk different turkic groups sy georgian muslim christian armenian and farsi very near to eachother sy the people living there were aware of their differences they were sy different people for example my grandfather would not have been happy sy if his doughter had willed to marry an armenian guy but that did not sy mean that they were willing to kill eachother no they were neighbors ok sy armenians killed turks which armenians their neoghbors as far as my sy grandparents are concerned the armenians attacked first but these sy armenians were not their neighbors they came from other places maybe sy first they had a training at some place they were taught to kill people sy to hate turks kurds it seems so there is certainly a difference between the planned extermination of the armenians of eastern turkey beginning in with that of the armeno georgian conflicts of late the argument is not whether armenians ever killed in their collective existence but rather the wholesale destruction of anatolian armenians under orders of the turkish government an armenian georgian dispute over the disposition of akhalkalak lori and pambak after the turkish third army evacuated the region cannot be equated with the extermination of anatolian armenians many armenians and georgians died in this area in the scramble to re occupy these lands and the lack of preparation for the winter months this is not the same as the turkish genocide of the armenians nearly four years earlier hundreds of kilometers away sy anyway but after they killed raped turks and other muslim people sy around people assumed that armenians killed us raped our women sy not a particular group of people trained in some camps maybe backed sy by some powerful states after that step you cannot explain these sy people not to hate all armenians i don t follow perhaps the next paragraph will shed some light sy so what am i trying to point out first at least for that region sy you cannot blame turks kurds etc since it was a self defense situation sy most of the armenians i think are not to blame either but since some sy people started that fire it is not easy to undo it there are facts sy people cannot trust eachother easily it is very difficult to establish sy a good relation based on mutual respect and trust between nations with sy different ethnic cultural religious backgrounds but it is unfortunately sy very easy to start a fire again the fighting between armenians and georgians in had little to do with the destruction of the armenians in turkey it is interesting that the georgian leaders of the transcaucasian federation armenia azerbaijan and georgia made special deals with turkish generals not to pass through tiflis on their way to baku in return for georgians not helping the armenians militarily of course as turkish troops marched across what was left of caucasian armenia many armenians went north and such population movement caused problems with the locals this is in no comparison with events years earlier in eastern anatolia my father s mother s family escaped cemiskezek erzinka erzerum nakhitchevan tiflis constantinople massachusetts sy my grandparents were not bloodthirsty people we did not experience sy what they had to endure they had to leave their lands there were sy ladies old ladies all of her children killed while she forced to sy witness young women put dirt at their face to make themselves sy unattractive i don t want to go into any graphic detail my grandmother s brother was forced to dress up as a kurdish women and paste potato skins on his face to look ugly the turks would kill any armenian young man on sight in dersim because their family was rather influential local kurds helped them escape before it was too late this is why i am alive today sy you may think that my sources are biased they were biased in some sense sy they experienced their own pain of course that is the way it is but sy as i said they were living in peace with their neighbors before why sy should they become enemies david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org how do we explain turkish troops on s d p a center for regional studies the armenian border when we can t p o box even explain cambridge ma turkish mp march
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re israel s expansion ii in article pp a auvm american edu paul h pimentel pp a auvm american edu writes what gives isreal the right to keep jeruseleum it is the home of the muslim a s well as jewish religion among others heck nobody ever mentions what yitza k shamir did forty orfifty yearsago which is terrorize westerners much in the way abdul nidal does today seems isrealis are nowhere above arabs so theref ore they have a right to jerusaleum as much as isreal does if ownership were rightly based on worthiness there wouldn t be any owners what is your point as i understand it israel s claim on jerusalem is based on possession and the absolutely central not second not third role it plays in jewish identity tim clock ph d graduate student tclock orion oac uci edu department of politics and society we have met the tel fax
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re israel s expansion in article apr vm mcgill ca b ha b ha musicb mcgill ca writes just a couple of questions for the pro israeli lobby out there is israel s occupation of southern lebanon temporary for mr stein i am working on a proof for you that israel is diverting water to the jordan river away from lebanese territory yes as long as the goverment over there can force some authority and prevent terrorists attack against israel is israel s occupation of the west bank gaza and golan temporary if so for those of you who support it why were so many settlers moved into the territories if it is not temporary let s hear it sinai had several big cities that were avcuated when isreal gave it back to egypth but for a peace agreement so it is my opinin that the settlers will not be an obstacle for withdrawal as long it is combined with a real peace agreement with the arabs and the palastinians steve naftaly naftaly stramer intergraph electronics internet nstramer dazixco ingr com lookout road suite a voice fax boulder co quality is everybody s job and it s everybody s job to watch all that they can
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re the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake in article c ut s xa bony bony com jake bony bony com jake livni writes in article r n d m techbook techbook com dan gannon writes dg the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake dg by theodore j o keefe dg hard by the washington monument within clear view of the jefferson dg memorial an easy stroll down the mall to the majestic lincoln memorial dg has arisen on some of the most hallowed territory of the united states of dg america a costly and dangerous mistake on ground where no monument yet dg marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of americans of all dg races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation sits today a dg massive and costly edifice devoted above all to a contentious and false dg version of the ordeal in europe during world war ii of non american dg members of a minority sectarian group now in the deceptive guise of dg tolerance the united states holocaust memorial museum begins a propaganda dg campaign financed through the unwitting largess of the american taxpayer dg in the interests of israel and its adherents in america jake after reading the first paragraph a quick scan confirmed my first jake impression this is a bunch of revisionist and anti semitic hogwash jake i m really disappointed in you it took you a whole paragraph to see that it was bunch of revisionist and anti semitic hogwash the article title the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake should have been enough tsiel tsiel ohayon jcpl co jp if you do not receive this e mail please let me employer may not have same know as soon as possible if possible opinions if any two percent of zero is almost nothing
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dear mr ajami i have read just today two articles dripping of hate and offence to a great deal of people i could find as much matching hatred in your articles as i have found in some of the self righteous kill in the name of god people i don t know why you are so attcaking to everyone is it a reaction to the hatred calls on this newsgroup or is it a reaction to hardships you have seen and experienced from before i have learnt not to judge people by only what they say but rather try to put myself in their place and aspire to understand their feelings i hope you would be able to do the same with everyone starting by your ownself because only through that you could be able to understand your feelings and act in a the manner you would aspire everyone to adopt thanks for your time nabil
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re freedom in u s a in article apr virginia edu ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i have just started reading the articles in this news group there seems to be an attempt by some members to quiet other members with scare tactics i believe one posting said that all postings by one person are being forwarded to his server who keeps a file on him in hope that appropriate action might be taken i don t know where you guys are from but in america such attempts to curtail someones first amendment rights are not appreciated here we let everyone speak their mind regardless of how we feel about it take your fascistic repressive ideals back to where you came from it would be nice if as you rightly point out the inherent value of freedom of speech discussion would also deal with the all to frequent ritualized abuses and distortions of that freedom that do occur there are situations where a few extremely vocal and usually radical people do drive people away effectively stifle all other opposing views and generally take over clearly the purpose behind such actions is to deprive others of their freedom of speech through overt and covert coercion and domination of the media form in question while freedom of speech is to be valued this is not how would you suggest that this sort of reoccuring problem be alleviated more particularly how can this be controlled within the structure of these newsgroups tim clock ph d graduate student uci tel department of politics and society fax university of california irvine home tel irvine ca
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re freedom in u s a dear mr beyer it is never wise to confuse freedom of speech with freedom of racism and violent deragatory it is unfortunate that many fail to understand this crucial distinction indeed i find the latter in absolute and complete contradiction to the former racial invective tends to create an atmosphere of intimidation where certain individuals who belong to the group under target group do not feel the ease and liberty to exercise their fundamental freedom of speech this brand of vilification is not sanctioned under freedom of speech salam john absood marlow ceased and sat apart indistinct and silent in the pose of a meditating buddha nobody moved for a time the offing was barred by a black bank of clouds and the tranquil waterway leading to the utter most ends of the earth flowed sombre under an overcast sky seemed to
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re binyamin netanyahu on cnn tonight in article c j qz mne world std com mkaye world std com martin kaye writes great interview with benjamin netanyahu on cnn larry king live this guy is knows what he is talking about he is truely charismatic articulate intelligent and demonstrates real leadership qualities i agree but i wish i liked his politics stewart m clamen internet clamen cs cmu edu school of computer science uucp uunet clamen cs cmu edu carnegie mellon university phone forbes avenue fax pittsburgh pa usa
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re legality of the jewish purchase was re israeli expansion lust in article apr bnr ca zbib bnr ca writes adam shostack writes sam zbib writes i m surprised that you don t consider the acquisition of land by the jews from arabs for the purpose of establishing an exclusive state as a hostile action leading to war it was for the purpose of establishing a state not an exclusive state if the state was to be exclusive it would not have arab citizens could you please tell me what was the ethnic composition of israel right after it was formed and no i do not consider the purchase of land a hostile action when someone wants to buy land and someone else is willing to sell it at a mutually agreeable price then that is commerce it is not a hostile action leading to war no one in his right mind would sell his freedom and dignity palestinians are no exception perhaps you heard about anti trust in the business world since we are debating the legality of a commercial transaction we must use the laws governing the guidelines and ethics of such transactions basic anti trust law says that while you can purchase ibm stocks for the purpose of investing you can not acquire a large number of those shares with the intent or controlling ibm you can do so only if you make your intentions clear apriori clearly the jews who purchased properties from palastenians had some designs they were not buying a dwelling or a real estate they were establishing a bridgehead for the european jews the palastenians sold their properties to the jews in the old tradition of arab hospitality being a multi ethnic multi religious society accepting the jews as neighbours was no different just another religion plus they paid fair market value etc they did not know they were victims of an international conspiracy i m not a conspiracy theorist myself but this one is hard to dismiss right now i m just going to address this point when the jewish national fund bought most of its land it didn t buy it from the palestinians themselves because for the most part they were tenant farmers fallahin living on land owned by wealthy arabs in syria and lebanon the jnf offered a premium deal so the owners took advantage of it it s called commerce the owners however made no provisions for those who had worked for them basically shafting them by selling the land right out from under them they are to blame not the jews adam shostack adam das harvard edu sam zbib bell northern research bitnet internet zbib bnr ca voice fax surface mail stop p o box station c ottawa canada k y h my opinions are my own and no one else s amir
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argic hey serdar man without a brain yare such a loser proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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serdar what are you retarded proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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serdar you are quite the loser proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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argic you definetly are in need of a shrink loser proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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serdar go back to nursery school jerk proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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serdar what are you stupid proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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argic you are brain damaged that hate of b fatransfer cancelledf yours courses through your sick body like poison it s just a matter of time your fate is sealed proline cosmo pro angmar internet cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com uucp uunet bu edu alphalpha pro angmar cosmo
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re israel s expansion ii ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes first of all i never said the holocaust i said before the holocaust i m not ignorant of the holocaust and know more about nazi germany than most people maybe including you uh oh the first sign of an argument without merit the stating of one s qualifications in an area if you know something about nazi germany show it if you don t shut up simple as that i don t think the suffering of some jews during wwii justifies the crimes commited by the israeli government any attempt to call civil liberterians like myself anti semetic is not appreciated all jews suffered during wwii not just our beloved who perished or were tortured we all suffered second the name calling was directed against you not civil libertarians in general your name dropping of a fancy sounding political term is yet another attempt to cite qualifications in order to obfuscate your glaring unpreparedness for this argument go back to the minors junior
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re remember those names come election time in article c ztet dwz cs cmu edu anwar cs cmu edu anwar mohammed writes in article c u qi mz apollo hp com nelson p apollo hp com peter nelson writes btw with bosnia s large moslem population why have nations like turkey saudi arabia syria egypt and others with either money or strong military forces not spoken out more forcibly or offered to help out bosnia obviously you really don t know they have spoken out cf sec y of state christopher s recent trip to the me note the clause more forcibly above my point is that they have made a few pro forma perfunctory remarks and sent in a few c s and so forth but it s clearly not something they re losing much sleep over they re just going through the motions while moslems are being ethnically cleansed out of what used to be yugoslavia the us has been speaking out far more loudly than the moslem nations in the un and other world forums besides there s no case that can be made for us military involvement there that doesn t apply equally well to say liberia angola or it appears with the khmer rouge s new campaign cambodia non whites don t count hmm some might say kuwaitis are non white ooops i forgot kuwaitis are oil rich loaded with petro dollars etc so they don t count precisely humanitarian concerns were not the primary justification for us involvement in the gulf oil and geopolitics were if the the kuwaitis didn t have oil and assuming iraq still saw fit to invade them i doubt you would have seen operation desert storm peter
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re freedom in u s a in article apr virginia edu ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i don t know where you guys are from but in america such attempts to curtail someones first amendment rights are not appreciated here we let everyone speak their mind regardless of how we feel about it take your fascistic repressive ideals back to where you came from hey tough guy freedom necessitates responsibility and no freedom is absolute btw to anyone who defends arafat read on open fire on the new jewish immigrants be they from the soviet union ethiopia or anywhere else i give you my instructions to use violence against the immigrants i willjail anyone who refuses to do this yassir arafat al muharar at least he s not racist just anti jewish pete
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re freedom in u s a mr freeman please find something more constructive to do with your time rather than engaging in fantasy not that i have a particular affinty to arafat or anything john marlow ceased and sat apart indistinct and silent in the pose of a meditating buddha nobody moved for a time the offing was barred by a black bank of clouds and the tranquil waterway leading to the utter most ends of the earth flowed sombre under an overcast sky seemed to
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re remember those names come election time in article c ztk dyi cs cmu edu anwar cs cmu edu anwar mohammed writes i said in article c u qi mz apollo hp com nelson p apollo hp com peter nelson writes besides there s no case that can be made for us military involvement there that doesn t apply equally well to say liberia angola or it appears with the khmer rouge s new campaign cambodia non whites don t count hmm some might say kuwaitis are non white ooops i forgot kuwaitis are oil rich loaded with petro dollars etc so they don t count and let s not forget somalia which is about as far from white as it gets and why are we in somalia when right across the gulf of aden are some of the wealthiest arab nations on the planet why does the us always become the point man for this stuff i don t mind us helping out but what invariably happens is that everybody expects us to do most of the work and take most of the risks even when these events are occuring in other people s back yards and they have the resources to deal with them quite well thank you i mean it s not like either serbia or somalia represent some overwhelming military force that their neighbors can t handle nor are the logistics a big deal it s a lot bigger logistical challenge to get troops and supplies from new york to somalia than from saudi arabia harder to go from texas to serbia than turkey or austria to serbia peter
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re israel s expansion ii waldo cybernet cse fau edu writes ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes first of all i never said the holocaust i said before the holocaust i m not ignorant of the holocaust and know more about nazi germany than most people maybe including you uh oh the first sign of an argument without merit the stating of one s qualifications in an area if you know something about nazi germany show it if you don t shut up simple as that i don t think the suffering of some jews during wwii justifies the crimes commited by the israeli government any attempt to call civil liberterians like myself anti semetic is not appreciated all jews suffered during wwii not just our beloved who perished or were tortured we all suffered second the name calling was directed against you not civil libertarians in general your name dropping of a fancy sounding political term is yet another attempt to cite qualifications in order to obfuscate your glaring unpreparedness for this argument go back to the minors junior all humans suffered emotionally some jews and many others suffered physically it is sad that people like you are so blinded by emotions that they can t see the facts thanks for calling me names it only assures me of what kind of ignorant people i am dealing with i included your letter since i thought it demonstrated my point more than anything i could write
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re freedom in u s a jaa cunixa cc columbia edu writes dear mr beyer it is never wise to confuse freedom of speech with freedom of racism and violent deragatory it is unfortunate that many fail to understand this crucial distinction in fact if a speach was not offensive to some its protection under freedom of speach laws would be useless it is speach that some find questionable that must be protected be it religiously blasphemous or inherently racist it is only through civilized discourse and not scare tactics that one can enlighten those that one perceives to be ignorant that is the idea behind freedom of expression what you find offensive might be perceived as truth by some and what they might find offensive might be your belief it is only through free exchange of ideas and insults as the case seems to be with this channel that one can change another s erring ways that is why jefferson said that here we are not afraid to tolerate error so long as reason is left to combat it
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re israel s expansion ii from article pp a auvm american edu by paul h pimentel pp a auvm american edu what gives isreal the right to keep jeruseleum it is the home of the muslim a s well as jewish religion among others heck nobody ever mentions what yitza k shamir did forty or fifty years ago which is terrorize westerners much in the way abdul nidal does today seems isrealis are nowhere above arabs so theref ore they have a right to jerusaleum as much as isreal does there is one big difference between israel and the arabs christians in this respect israel allows freedom of religion avi
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gaza and separation from israel from center for policy research cpr subject gaza and separation from israel gaza and the idea of separation the israeli left s inability to cope with the challenges it is presented with by reality becomes obvious at those moments when the reality does not line up with the expectations of the left we were able to see this clearly during the gulf war because of the palestinian s popular solidarity with iraq yossi sarid currently minister of the environment made his infamous statement you look for me i e i am not making any more efforts to speak with you from yossi sarid s point of view palestinian reality during the gulf war was not the lengthy curfew or the danger of hunger it brought with it but whether or not the palestinians accepted what was acceptable to the party similarly meretz mk deddi tzuker recently faced with criticism from residents of the west bank town of beit sahour over his government s and his party s lack of action for human rights and peace responded by asking those present at the discussion whether they would rather have a likud government from the leftists perspective this is the best government because it is their government regardless of what it does these members of the israeli left have already decided how the future of the occupied territories will look and they want to dictate to the palestinians how to get there an essential step towards this future is their participation in yitzhak rabin s government and from their point of view the expulsions were a marginal byproduct of this government of peace which need not disturb the routine course of events likewise the rabinic policies in gaza the blowing up of houses with anti tank rockets and the significant increases in the number of persons injured in the suppression of demonstrations need not disturb it but the fact that reality is not as they would have it forces itself upon them when a mob in gaza falls upon a settler who has lost his way when a settler is stabbed by his palestinian workers or when a palestinian knifes people in the streets of tel aviv then all hell breaks loose and the israeli left has nothing to propose except separation let s cut ourselves off from the palestinians let s build a fence so high that they won t be able to harm us this is the cry of the israeli left let us erect a fence between us and the reality whith is the occupation meron benvenisti writes about this in ha aretz the liberal left which does not differentiate between physical separation and the future of the territories must come to understand that the regime of magnetic cards exclusion of arab workers closure and curfew are instruments of enforcement designed for the suppression of a population in revolt and that their ideological support for separation only provides humanitarian arguments for the legitimization of the status quo enforced separation is carried out only to meet the need of the ruling community but it is only the ruled population which bears its burden whoover thinks that out of gaza first is a liberal humanitarian idea had best contemplate the question of whether this position is also moral it is very easy to shake off responsibility for this concentration of human suffering and to thus also disregard responsibility for it s creation it is very easy to erect a fence between jewish and arab neighborhoods in jerusalem when this fence has a gate the keys to which are at the disposal of one hand which opens to allow the jews to pursue all their interests but is barred to the arabs from the other front jerusalem march
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conf mideast levant from center for policy research cpr subject conf mideast levant rights of children violated by the state of israel selected articles of the iv geneva convention of article no physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties article the high contracting parties specifically agree that each of them is prohibited from taking any measure of such a character as to cause the physical suffering or extermination of protected persons in their hands this prohibition applies not only to murder torture corporal punishment but also to any other measures of brutality whether applied by civilian or military agents article no protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed collective penalties and likewise measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited article taking of hostages is prohibited article individual or mass forcible transfers as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the occupying power or to that of any other country occupied or not are prohibited regardless of their motive article the occupying power shall with the cooperation of the national and local authorities facilitate the proper working of all institutions devoted to the care and education of children article any destruction by the occupying power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons or to the state or to other public authorities or to social or cooperative organizations is prohibited except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations ps it is obvious that violations of the above articles are also violations of the international convention of the rights of the child
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assistance to palest people from center for policy research cpr subject assistance to palest people u n general assembly resolution of december assistance to the palestinian people the general assembly recalling its resolution of december taking into account the intifadah of the palestinian people in the occupied palestinian territory against the israeli occupation including israeli economic and social policies and practices rejecting israeli restrictions on external economic and social assistance to the palestinian people in the occupied palestinian territory concerned about the economic losses of the palestinian people as a result of the gulf crisis aware of the increasing need to provide economic and social assistance to the palestinian people affirming that the palestinian people cannot develop their national economy as long as the israeli occupation persists takes note of the report of the secretary general on assistance to the palestinian people expresses its appreciation to the states united nations bodies and intergovernmental and non governmental organizations that have provided assistance to the palestinian people requests the international community the united nations system and intergovernmental and non governmental organizations to sustain and increase their assistance to the palestinian people in close cooperation with the palestine liberation organization plo taking in account the economic losses of the palestinian people as a result of the gulf crisis calls for treatment on a transit basis of palestinian exports and imports passing through neighbouring ports and points of exit and entry also calls for the granting of trade concessions and concrete preferential measures for palestinian exports on the basis of palestinian certificates of origin further calls for the immediate lifting of israeli restrictions and obstacles hindering the implementation of assistance projects by the united nations development programme other united nations bodies and others providing economic and social assistance to the palestinian people in the occupied palestinian territory reiterates its call for the implementation of development projects in the occupied palestinian territory including the projects mentioned in its resolution of december calls for facilitation of the establishment of palestinian development banks in the occupied palestinian territory with a view to promoting investment production employment and income therein requests the secretary general to report to the general the general assembly at its th session through the economic and social council on the progress made in the implementation of the present resolution in favour countries europe canada australia new zealand japan africa south america central america and asia against united states and israel abstaining none
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h r violations by israel arab st many of you ask me whether i approve of severe human rights violations by arab states becuse i focus on israeli human rights violations let s make things clear my opposition to h r violations in arab states is total and without qualification no arab state is and can claim to be democratic no arab state claims to be democratic i am born in palestine now israel i have family there the lack of peace and utter injustice in my home country has affected me all my life i am concerned by palestine israel because i want peace to come to it peace and justice if anybody has legitimate claims towards arab states he should present his claims and ask for support jews who left arab states are fully entitled to make claims and should do so if they consider their case has a merit it is their basic right to return to these countries if they wish if not they should not complain and compare themselves to the palestinians who have been struggling for the right of return since israel was established and whose right is upheld by the united nations quasi totally if jews feel discriminated in arab countries they have a legitimate claim that any decent person can and should support human rights violations by arab states don t justify legitimate nor are the cause for israeli breaches of international law and human rioghts israeli breaches stem from the zionist concept which can only be implemented by negating basic rights to palestinians israeli trights and palestinian rights are not symmetrical the first party has a state and the other has none the first is an occupier and the second the occupied for any meaningful relationship to emerge some symmetry must be established as long as israelis and jews don t realise the necessity of a change of perspective towards the palestinian people and as long as israelis and jews don t want to exorcise their own past towards the palestinians the naqba of etc and refuse to acknowledge that the creation of israel was dependent upon the removal of most palestinian arabs there will be no base for a real trust when i read the first time the list of the arab villages destroyed by the state of israel in and after i got a shock i hope others will be touched by this discovery and think about the meaning of such massive destruction and destitution elias davidsson iceland
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desertification of the negev from center for policy research cpr subject desertification of the negev the desertification of the arid negev by moise saltiel i p march i the negev bedouin before and after ii jewish agricultural settlement in the negev iii development of the negev s rural population iv economic situation of jewish settlements in v failure in settling the arava valley vi failure in settling the central mountains vii failure in making the negev bedouinenrein cleansing the negev of bedouins viii transforming bedouin into low paid workers ix failure in settling the development towns x jordan water to the negev a strategic asset xi the negev becomes a dumping ground xii the dimona nuclear plant xiii the negev as a military base xiv the negev in the year just after the creation of the state of israel the phrase the jewish pioneers will make the desert bloom was trumpeted throughout the western world after the six day war in david ben gurion declared in a letter to charles de gaulle it s by our pioneering creation that we have transformed a poor and arid land into a fertile land created built up areas towns and villages in abandoned desert areas contrary to ben gurion s assertion it must be affirmed that during the years of the british mandate over palestine and for centuries previous a productive human presence was to be found in all parts of the negev desert in the very arid hills and valleys of the southern negev as well as in the more fertile north these were the bedouin arabs the real desertification of the negev mainly in the southern part occurred after israel s dispossession of the bedouin s cultivated lands and pastures nowadays the majority of the square kilometer negev which represents percent of the state of israel pre borders has been desertified beyond recognition the main new occupiers of the formerly bedouin negev are the israeli army the nature reserves authority whose chief role is to prevent bedouin from roaming their former pasture lands and vast industrial zones including nuclear reactors and dumping grounds for chemical nuclear and other wastes israeli jews in the negev today cultivate less than half the surface area cultivated by the bedouin before and there is no jewish pastoral activity i agricultural and pastoral activities of the negev bedouin before and after in according to british mandatory statistics the beersheba sub district which corresponds more or less to israel s negev or southern district had inhabitants almost all bedouin arabs who held camels cows and oxen sheep and goats the majority of the bedouin lived a more or less sedentary life in the north where precipitation ranged between and mm per year in they cultivated about hectares of the beersheba district i e percent of its total area and more than double the area cultivated by the negev s jewish settlers after years of making the desert bloom the bedouin had a very low crop yield to kilograms of barley per hectare during rainy years and their farming techniques were primitive but production was based solely on animal and human labor it must also be underscored that animal production although low was based entirely on pasturing production increased considerably during the rainy years and diminished significantly during drought years all bedouin pasture animals goats camels and sheep had the ability to gain weight quickly over the relatively rainy winters and to withstand many waterless days during the hot summers these animals were the result of a centuries old process of natural selection in harsh local conditions after the creation of the state of israel percent of the negev bedouin were expelled to the sinai or to southern jordan the who were allowed to remain were confined to a territory of hectares in a region were annual mean precipiation was mm a quantity low enough to ensure a crop failure two years out of three the rare water wells in the south and central negev spring of life in the desert were cemented to prevent bedouin shepherds from roaming a few bedouin shepherds were allowed to stay in the central negev but after when the sinai was returned to egypt these bedouin were also eliminated at the same time strong pressure was applied on the bedouin to abandon cultivation of their fields in order that the land could be transferred to the army no reliable statistics exist concerning the amount of land held today by negev bedouin it is a known fact that a large part of the hectares they cultivated in the s has been seized by the israeli authorities indeed most of the bedouin are now confined to seven development towns or sowetos established for them the rest of the article is available from elias davidsson email elias ismennt is
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zionism racism from center for policy research cpr subject zionism racism diaspora a cancer by julian kossoff and lindsay schusman in jewish chronicle london dec leading israeli author and cultural commentator a b yehoshua launched a ferocious attack on diaspora jewry at a zionist youth council meeting in north london last week the diaspora he claimed was the cancer connected to the main tissue of the jewish people he was scathing about its failure to act before the holocaust he said the diaspora s religious and secular leadership had ignored the warning signs in the s and had fiercely opposed zionism consequently he considered the holocaust the failure of judaism his talk entitled diaspora a neurotic solution covered years of jewish history mr yehoshua s other targets included soviet jews who were he said not staying in israel but running away and all jews outside israel who were using other people s countries like hotels the only conclusion he could draw was that the diaspora was immoral because it looked to israel for its identity but lived elsewhere worse it threatened israel itself creating a distraction for her citizens who were leaving by the thousands mr yehoshua who described himself as a soldier for aliyah ended by calling for the creation of a new total jew living in israel earlier speaking at a meeting of jewish students on the difficulties of forging a national identity in israeli literature mr yehoshua claimed that israeli writers were paralyzed by the country s political situation he said israel s wars had once provided writers with a vital source of inspiration today israeli writers avoided writing directly about the arab israeli conflict no major work had been produced about the intifada instead writers were tackling themes such as jewish identity emigration from israel and personal and family issues mr yehoshua admitted he also felt unable to write about the israeli political situation he could no longer step into an israeli arab s shoes and portray him as a real flesh and blood character he claimed that after years of statehood the problem of israeli identity had not been solved he said jews remained too pre occupied with the borders of identity between jew and non jew and were not concerned with the nature of that identity jewish values in israel embraced every aspect of daily life unlike in the diaspora where jews had no responsibility for the country they lived in he said he warned that modern hebrew a unifying force for the jewish people would have to struggle for its future especially in literary circles it faced fierce competition from the english language
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poem by erich fried from center for policy research cpr subject poem by erich fried poem by german jewish poet erich fried holocaust survivor ein jude an die zionistischen kaempfer von erich fried was wollt ihr eigentlich wollt ihr wirklich die uebertreffen die euch niedergetreten haben vor einem menschenalter in euer eigenes blut und in euren eigenen kot wollt ihr die alten foltern jetzt an andere weitergeben mit allen blutigen dreckigen einzelheiten mit allem brutalen genuss die folterknechte wie unsere vaeter sie damals erlitten haben wollt jetzt wirklich ihr die neue gestapo sein die neue wehrmacht die neue sa and ss und aus den palaestinensern die neuen juden machen aber dann will auch ich weil ich damals vor fuenfzig jahren selbst als ein judenkind gepeinigt wurde von euren peinigern ein neuer jude sein mit diesen neuen juden zu denen ihr die palaestinenser macht und ich will sie zurueckfuehren helfen als freie menschen in ihr eigenes land palaestina aus dem ihr sie vertrieben habt oder in dem ihr sie quaelt ihr hakenkreuzlehrlinge ihr narren und wechselbaelge der weltgeschichte denen der davidstern auf euren fahnen sich immer schneller verwandelt in das verfluchte zeichen mit den vier fuessen das ihr nun nicht sehen wollt aber dessen weg ihr heut geht
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re the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake in article c ut s xa bony bony com jake bony bony com jake livni writes through private contributions on federal land your hate mongering article is devoid of current and historical fact intellectual content and social value down the toilet it goes and we all know what an unbiased source the nyt is when it comes to things concerning israel neither the times nor the trained seals who have responded thus far seem to recognize the statement that these private funds were all tax exmpt in otherwords american taxpayers put up at least of the money and finalyy how does federal land mitigate the offensiveness of this alien monument dedicated to perpetuating pitty and the continual flow of tax money to a foreign entity that federal land and tax money could have been used to commerate americans or better yet to house homeless americans
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re israeli terrorism in article rd eo a usenet ins cwru edu anas omran writes anas there are many neutral human rights organizations which always report anas on the situation in the o t but as most people used to see on tv the anas israelis do not allow them to go deep there in the o t the israelis anas used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters anas so this is another kind of terrorism committed by the jews in palestine anas they do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in anas palestine bring me one case where israeli soldiers deliberately killed a neutral reporter this is another one of your wet dreams unlike many countries israel does allow reporters in and out of the o t that is what the problem is if israel were a country like china then nothing would transpire from what is happening in the o t but there seems to be a proliferation of journalists in israel always trying to show how evil the israeli monster is arab countries don t allow journalists anywhere we have yet to hear about the massacres of kurds the destruction and annihilation of hama the killings of moslem fundamentalists in mosques in egypt and algeria etc why is it we only get state reports how accurate are they anas go give a lesson of freedom of speech to your arab bretheren before telling us what to do tsiel tsiel ohayon jcpl co jp if you do not receive this e mail please let me employer may not have same know as soon as possible if possible opinions if any two percent of zero is almost nothing
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re desertification of the negev this is nonsense i lived in the negev for many years and i can say for sure that no beduins were moved or harmed in any way on the contrary their standard of living has climbed sharply many of them now live in rather nice permanent houses and own cars there are quite a few beduin students in the ben gurion university there are good friendly relations between them and the rest of the population all the beduins i met would be rather surprised to read mr davidson s poster i have to say danny keren
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accounts of anti armenian human right violations in azerbaijan accounts of anti armenian human right violations in azerbaijan prelude to current events in nagorno karabakh i saw a naked girl with her hair down they were dragging her she kept falling because they were pushing her and kicking her she fell down it was muddy there and later other witnesses who saw it from their balconies told us they seized her by the hair and dragged her a couple of blocks as far as the mortgage bank that s a good block and a half or two from here i know this for sure because i saw it myself deposition of tatyana mikhailovna arutunian nezhintseva born train conductor azerbaijani railroad resident at building apartment microdistrict no sumgait azerbaijan i hadn t lived very long in sumgait only eight years i moved there from novosibirsk my son entered the baku nautical school and so i transferred to azerbaijan later i met someone and married him and now my name is arutunian my husband s name that there would be a massacre was not discussed openly but there were hints and gibes so to speak at the armenian people and they were mocking the russians too i was constantly aware of it at work and not just this past year i couldn t find a definite place for myself in the pool at work because i i ll just say it couldn t steal couldn t deceive and couldn t be involved in bribe taking and when i asked for decent working conditions they told me leave don t keep the others from working you aren t cut out for this kind of work and at work and around all the time i would hear gibes at the armenians like the turks had it right they killed them all the way they ve multiplied here they re making it hard for us to live and things will be just fine if we get rid of them all no problem the turks will help they say if we ask them they ll rid armenia of armenians in half an hour well that s the way it all was but i never thought of course that it would spill over into a bloody tragedy because you just couldn t imagine it here we ve been living under the soviet government for years and no one even considered such an idea possible but i had been forming my own opinions and in the presence of authoritative people i would often ask where is this all leading do people really not see what kind of situation is emerging here the russians are fleeing sumgait there are very few of them left why is no one dealing with this what s going on and when it all happened on the th and th it became clear that everything had been arranged by someone because what else are you to make of it if the first secretary of the city party committee is marching ahead of the demonstration with an azerbaijani flag i wouldn t be saying this now if i hadn t received personal confirmation from him later because when we were under guard in the sk club on the st he came to the club that muslimzade the women told me there he is there he is that s muslimzade i didn t believe the rumors that he had carried an azerbaijani flag i thought that they were just false rumors i went over to him and said are you the first secretary of our city party committee he answers me yes and i ask him tell me did you really march ahead of that gang carrying an azerbaijani flag and behind you they were carrying denigrating signs i don t know exactly what they said but there was mention of armenian blood and he tells me yes i was there but i tried to dissuade them from it then i asked him another question and where were you when they were burning and slaughtering us and he said i we didn t know what to do we didn t know we didn t anticipate that that would happen in sumgait comrade mamedov the first deputy chairman of the council of ministers of the azerbaijani ssr answered the same question for me no we actually didn t anticipate the slaughter in sumgait at that time we were trying to contain the crowd of in baku that was preparing for a massacre those are his exact words the ones he said in the office of the council of ministers of the armenian ssr and now about the events themselves of course it s painful to discuss them because it may seem that it s not true to someone else various rumors concerning what happened are making the rounds some are true others aren t but unfortunately there are more true ones than false because it was so horrible in our age here in the space age the age of science the age of progress i don t know if someone had told me this story if i were living in or around moscow i wouldn t have believed it why not because it was really a genocide it was a massacre that s genuinely what it was for example on that day the th i didn t know about the th because my husband and i were both sick both of us had the flu and we were in bed on the th our neighbor comes to our place and says you re in bed you don t know anything about it there was a demonstration in town and after it they were overturning armenian cars and burning them they were looking into cars and asking are you an armenian if they answered in armenian then they turned the car over and burned it this isn t made up the wife of the senior investigator of the baku ministry of internal affairs told us he was returning home from his dacha with his wife raisa sevastyanova she s my neighbor she immediately came and told lis that they had landed right in the middle of it i don t know what to call it the cavalcade of automobiles they were stopping he answered in azerbaijani they let them go but they made him honk the horn they were kicking up a fracas we didn t even believe it and i said certainly that didn t happen how can that be and she said muslimzade was leading the crowd and the sputnik store was completely smashed because most of the salespeople there are armenians and when he saw that they had started breaking the glass in that store he said don t break the shop windows don t destroy state property but do whatever else you want i didn t hear this with my own two ears but it is a fact that the store was torn up and the director of the store was beaten for employing armenians although he s an azerbaijani while we were talking all of a sudden right across from us sevastyanova is the first to look out the window and say look there s a crowd out there and sure enough when we looked out there we saw that the crowd had already started wrecking the neighboring building there was an armenian family there a woman and two girls they lived across from us i m sorry i don t know the building number or the people s names since we were in my husband s apartment in microdistrict and i lived in microdistrict no there was awful looting going on there at the time the most hideous things were going on there then one building there ours was attacked twice once wasn t enough for them they returned to the places where they hadn t finished the armenians off if an azerbaijani family dared to conceal armenians they beat the azerbaijanis too they also beat russians if it was russians doing the hiding because there were russians among them they said so on television there were people of various nationalities but they didn t tell us why there were people of different nationalities because they wouldn t have touched the azerbaijanis if they hadn t dared to stick up for the armenians and give them temporary shelter in their homes at the time i saw this from the window i was there sevastyanova was there and so was my husband we went out onto the balcony and saw a television fly off a balcony all kinds of things even a sofa then when it was all down there they burned it up then we saw the crowd and they were all oohing at first i couldn t figure out what was happening and later i told my husband lendrush l think they re beating someone out there and he answered i don t know could be suddenly the crowd separated for a moment and i saw it and raisa sevastyanova saw it too my husband had turned the other way he didn t see it i saw a naked girl with her hair down they were dragging her she kept falling because they were pushing her and kicking her she fell down it was muddy there and later other witnesses who saw it from their balconies told us they seized her by the hair and dragged her a couple of blocks as far as the mortgage bank that s a good block and a half or two from here i know this for sure because i saw it myself then the crowd rushed toward our building we were standing there and you can of course imagine what we were feeling were they going to kill us or not and i also had the awful thought that they might torment me the way they tormented that woman because i had just seen that i asked my husband i gave him an axe and said you kill me first and then let them do what they want with the corpse but our neighbors it s true defended us they said there aren t any armenians in our entryway go away only muslims live here disaster missed us that time but at two o clock in the morning a crowd of about people approximately came back to our place my husband was already asleep he can sleep when he s upset about something but i can t i was standing running from balcony to balcony our power was out i don t remember for how long but it was as though it had been deliberately turned off there were no lights whatsoever and i was glad of course i thought it was better that way but then i look and the crowd is at our balcony this was at in the morning the first time they were at our building it was and now it was in the morning but i never thought that that old woman on the first floor the azerbaijani was awake and watching out there were human beings among them too so she goes out with a pail of garbage as though she needed to be taking garbage out at two o clock in the morning she used it as a pretext and went toward those young people they really were youngsters from my balcony you could see perfectly that they were young azerbaijani boys they spoke azerbaijani and when they came up to her she said what do you want and they answered we want the armenian family that lives here pointing toward the second floor with their hands she says i already told you we don t have any armenians here now leave do you hear this is an old muslim woman talking to you and grabbed the hand of one boy who was trying to walk around her and enter the building anyway and started pushing him away and so they seemed to listen to her they were all very young they started apologizing and left that was the second time death was at our door i forgot to mention about one other apartment a man named rubik lives there i don t know him really i knew his daughter i mean i saw her around but we really didn t know them but i do know that that guy who lives on the fourth floor across from our entryway went to chernobyl and worked there for eight months to earn money can you imagine what that means he risked his life to earn x amount of money in order to better his family he bought new furniture and was getting ready to give his daughter s hand in marriage but alas everything was ruined by those creeps and scoundrels they threw everything out the windows and the rest we saw from our balcony how the neighbors on the left and right ran into the apartment and carried off everything that hadn t already been smashed or taken what is one to think of that it means that the parents in those families were in on it too unfortunately i came to be of the opinion that it was all organized and that everything had been foreseen in advance both the beating of the armenians and the stripping of apartments something on the order of we ll move the armenians out and take over their apartments i have worked honestly my whole life you can check everything about me i came as a patriot from china waited for nights on end in front of the consulate general of the ussr i came to my homeland as a patriot because i knew that the party and the komsomol were holy things but when i saw in sumgait that there wasn t anything holy about them that party membership was bought that komsomol members joined only for personal gain that there were no ideals no ideas god save me everything was being bought and sold i saw all of it and understood how they could allow that crap to go on like it did i can t talk any more about it the image of that beating when i went out of my own apartment they picked us up under soviet army guard they had arrived from all over to suppress that gang not only armenians but some russian families and their children too came out of their apartments and joined us because no normal person who had seen that could stay there with the situation the way it was and what s interesting is that when we left on the buses i rode and thought that at least one group of people for sure people would basically rise to the situation would have some compassion for the armenians would somehow understand the injustice of what was done but having analyzed and weighed the whole thing once i calmed down having thought it all through i came to a conclusion that is shared by many people if a lot of azerbaijanis didn t want their armenian neighbors to be killed and that basically depended on that muslimzade he said that he had wanted to calm them down then is it possible that he didn t have people at hand to whom he could whisper at the last minute go and announce it on television citizens of sumgait take what you can into your hands let s protect our neighbors from this massacre those crowds weren t such that there was no controlling them basically they were unarmed they didn t have firearms mostly they had knives they had all kinds of metal parts like armature shafts sharpened at the ends special rocks different to a degree that we noticed them there aren t rocks like those in sumgait soils they were brought from somewhere as though it were all specially planned so as i was saying i weighed it all out and if any of our neighbors had wanted to defend us why wasn t it arranged it means that the government didn t want to do it when the crowd was moving from the city party committee to the sputnik what there was no way of informing baku no there was no way it turns out the crowd was doing violence in our microdistrict i won t mention the things i didn t see myself i ll only talk about the things i myself witnessed they were in microdistrict beginning at o clock in the evening when i saw them from the other building and they were somewhere else until mid night or one o clock in the morning because at they came back to our building they hadn t completely finished making their predatory rounds of microdistrict when they returned to our building i told my husband lendrush now the police are probably going to come my god now the authorities are probably going to find out and come to our aid well alas no there were to be no authorities not a single policeman not a single fireman not a single ambulance came while they were raging as it turns out as we later found out beginning on the might of the th there were dead people ruined apartments and burned autos one car near the bus station it was burned and overturned it was probably there about four days everyone saw it and what went on in block those who live there know they saw from their balconies how they attacked the soldiers in the buses how they beat those poor unarmed soldiers and how on that square i can t remember the name of it where there is that fork coming from the bus station that intersection now i m upset and i can t think of the name there s a tall building there a story and from the balconies there people saw that butchery when the poor soldiers wearing only helmets with shields and those unfortunate clubs moved against that mob and when they fell those to year old boys ran up and using stones big heavy stones beat them to death on their heads who could have guessed that something like that could happen in the soviet union and under the soviet government the upshot is that this republic has not been under soviet control for a long time but no one wanted to pay any attention or get involved if you were to go and ask at my work many people would confirm that i tell the truth i ve been struggling for truth for five years there already the five years that i worked at the azerbaijani railroad some people there considered me a demagogue others who knows what some think i m an adventure seeker and some a prankster but i wanted everything to be right i would become outraged how can this be why is it people treat one another this way on a soviet railroad as though the azerbaijani railroad were azerbaijani property or the property of some magnate or some mafia if i want to i ll get you out of here if i want to i ll get rid of you if i want to i ll do something else and there s a black market price for everything in the most brazen way a coach to moscow costs so much a coach on a local train costs so much once when i was complaining to the head of the conductor s pool he had the nerve to tell me maybe you won t even believe this but this i m afraid i heard with my own ears tatyana just how long can you fight for something that you know will never have any effect you re alone against everyone so instead why don t you give more money to the chief conductor and everything will go fine for you i started to cry turned and left what else could i do where else could i go to complain i realized that everything was useless and the root of the whole thing is that it all goes on and no one wants to see it i filed a written complaint and they ground it into dust they destroyed it i still have a copy but what s the use when the general procuracy got involved with the investigation of the bloody sumgait affair in addition to the information about what i saw what i was a witness to i gave testimony about the mafia at the railroad they accepted my petition but i don t know if they re going to pursue it or not because you ll excuse me i no longer believe in the things i aspired to the things i believed in before it s all dead they just spit on my soul stomped on everything physically and most important spiritually because you can lose belongings that s nonsense that all comes with time but when your soul is spit upon and when the best in you your beliefs are destroyed it can be very difficult to restore them i want to tell of one incident i just don t know at the time i was in such a state that i didn t even take minor things into account here is an example of course it s not a minor one my neighbor raisa sevastyanova she has a son valery who is in the th grade in a school in microdistrict a boy vitaly danielian i don t know his last name goes to school with him or rather went to school with him i was just sitting in an apartment trying to make a phone call to moscow oh yes and there s one important detail when the massacre began for two to three hours the phones weren t working in armenian apartments and later in several russian and azerbaijani apartments but the fact of the matter is that service was shut off you could not call anywhere why again it means it was all planned how come service is cut off for no reason and the lights went off and those brats were raging as they liked they weren t afraid they ran about freely they that no one would slap their hands and no one would dare to stop them they knew it now i m going to tell about the incident so this little vitaly vitalik an armenian boy went to school with valery they were in the same class according to what valery and his neighbor pal said at the time i was in the same apartment as they were i sat at the phone waiting for the call to be put through a mob attacked the building where vitalik lived so valery ran to his mother and said mamma please let me go to vitalik s what if they kill him maybe he s still alive maybe we can bring him here and save him somehow he s a nice guy we all like him he s a good person he s smart his mother wouldn t let him go in tears she says valery you can t go because i am afraid he says mamma we can get around the crowd we ll just watch just have a look they made it through i don t know i think vitalik s parents lived in microdistrict no and when they got there they made a superficial deduction knowing that balconies and doors were being broken everywhere that you could see from the street which were the armenian apartments in the building they went here and there and looked and saw that the windows were intact and so they calmed down but even though the windows in that apartment were not broken everything inside was totally smashed and vitalik lay there with a broken skull and his mother and father had already been murdered little vitalik didn t even know they were dead so two weeks ago i don t know he was in critical condition no maybe it was longer we left sumgait on march spent some time in moscow and then we came to yerevan so it s been about a month already it s so hard to keep all this straight so valery the next day when he found out that vitalik s family has been killed and vitalik was ling in the semashko hospital in baku valery and his classmates got together and went to visit him but they wouldn t admit them telling them that he was in critical condition and that he was still in a coma they cried and left having also found out that the girl i saw being kicked and dragged was in that hospital too as it turns out she was brought there in serious condition but at least she was alive at the time when we got to the sk club we would see first one friend and then another throw ourselves into their arms and kiss them because you had wondered if these friends were alive or not if those friends were alive or not and when you saw them you were so glad to find out that the family had lived when you saw people you heard things that made your hair stand on end if you publish everything that happened it will be a hideous book a book of things it is even difficult to believe and those two girls who were raped were entirely black and blue the ones at the sk they know i m not lying that girlfriend came up to one of them and said what happened and she bared her breasts and they were completely covered in cigarette burns those rogues had put cigarettes out on her breasts after something like that i don t know how you can live in a city and look at the people in it now when we stayed at the military unit for a while they provided well basic conditions for us there the military unit is located in nasosny some six miles from sumgait and living there we met with a larger group of people there were about people at the unit you know there was a point when i couldn t even go outside because if you went outside you saw so much heartbreak around you and when you hear the false rumors yes by the way false rumors were spread in sumgait saying that the armenians around yerevan had destroyed azerbaijani villages and razed them to the ground with bulldozers i didn t know whether to believe it or not and people who don t know any better get the idea that it was all done in revenge but when i arrived in armenia and was in spitak and in spitak all those villages are not only intact but at that time had even been protected just in case they were guarded they got better food than did the inhabitants of spitak not a single person there died and no one is planning to harm them around yerevan all the villages are safe and unharmed and the armenians didn t attack anyone but actually after an evil of the magnitude suffered in sumgait there could have been a feeling of vengefulness but no one acted on it and i don t know why you sometimes hear accusations to the effect that the armenians are guilty that it is they who organized it rumors like that are being spread in azerbaijan and if one old person says it and ten young ones hear it they not only perceive it with their minds but with their hearts too to them it seems that the older person is telling the truth for example one says did you know that out of people killed by the way originally they said people but later they found a nd were azerbaijani and one was an armenian of course i m upset but it s utterly impossible to discuss such things and not become upset sometimes l forget things but i know i want to return to the time when we were in the sk club across from the city party committee when i saw muslimzade in the sk club building i went to him to ask because i couldn t believe that he had marched in the front carrying a banner i already mentioned this and if i repeat anything please excuse me i asked him why did you do that and why are you here now why did you come here to laugh at these women who are strewn about on the floor the overcrowding there was tremendous it was completely unsanitary and several of the children were already sick it s true the troops tried to make it livable for us they cooked for us on their field stoves and provided us with wonderful food but the thing is that their main job was to ferret out the gang that was still at it everywhere that was continuing its sordid affairs everywhere plus they were never given any direct orders they didn t know what they were authorized to do and not to do and it was only on march at five o clock in the evening that krayev himself the lieutenant general the city commandant of sumgait was given full authority and told everyone over a microphone from an armored personnel carrier that now he could do what he wanted to do as his heart advised him and relocate people to the military unit but that s not what i want to talk about now muslimzade characteristically tried to get me out of the sk building and take me to the city party committee which is across the square from the club he took me by the hand and said citizen don t worry we ll go and have a talk in my office i told him no after everything you ve done i don t believe one iota of what you say if i go to the city party committee i ll disappear and the traces of me will disappear too because you can t stand it when oh yes and there was another interesting detail from that meeting it was even very funny although at the time i wasn t up to laughing he was in a nice expensive hat and so as to put him to shame so to speak i said oh why did you come here all duded up like a london dandy you smell of good perfume you re in your starched shirt and you have your expensive hat on you came to ridicule the poor women and children who are lying on the floor who are already getting sick whose relatives have died did you come to laugh at them and the one who was accompanying him an azerbaijani i don t know who he was or what his title was he quickly snatched the hat off muslimzade s head and hid it then i said my god we re not marauders we re not you we didn t come to you with the intention of stealing well kill me kill me muslimzade says to me but i m not guilty kill me kill me but i m not guilty and i say ok fine you re not guilty have it your way but give us an answer we re asking you where were you when they were torturing and raping those poor women when they were killing the children burning things carrying on outrageously and wrecking all those apartments where were you then you know we didn t expect it we did not know what to do we didn t anticipate that something like that would happen in sumgait i started laughing and said it s truly funny he says what could i do we didn t know what to do and i say i m sorry but it ll be ridiculous if i tell you the first secretary of the city party committee shouldn t march out in front with a banner he should fall down so that the gang would have to cross over his dead body that s what you should have done that s the way it was during the war not a single party committee secretary compromised himself either he died or he led people into battle and what did you do you ran away you left you hid you marched with a flag because you were afraid excuse my language you feared for your own damned hide and when we ask you you tell us that you got confused and you ask me what you could have done that s right i told him the city party committee got confused all the party committees got confused the police got confused baku got confused they all lay in a faint for two weeks and the gang ran the show with impunity and if it weren t for the troops it wouldn t have been just two days there wouldn t be a single armenian left in sumgait for sure they would have finished their bloody affair because they brazenly went up to some russians too the ones who tried to say something to them and they told them as soon as we finish with the armenians we ll come after you too and by the way there was a colonel who took us to the military unit he was the one with the light blue collar tabs who flew in and two hours later arrived on an armored personnel carrier when we were at the sk and took us to the military unit and who later started moving us from the military unit we asked him what how what will come of us he openly said you know for us the main thing now is to catch that gang we ll finish that quickly you ll stay at the military unit for the time being and we ll decide later the general procuracy of the ussr arrived it consists of investigators from all cities there were some from stavropol from everywhere just everywhere because the affair was truly frightful about this by the way comrade katusev spoke as everyone knows he s the first deputy general procurator of the ussr when he gave us a speech from the armored personnel carrier at the military unit by the way he told us the honest truth because he couldn t not say it because he was still experiencing his first impressions of what he had seen and he said there was afghanistan and it was bad but sumgait it s horrible and the people who dared to do such a thing will be severely punished in accordance with our laws and that s a quote then one mother throws herself at him her two sons had died before her very eyes and says who will return my sons who is going to punish the culprits they tried to calm her down and he said in order for us to conduct a proper investigation in order that not a single scoundrel avoid responsibility you must help us because we don t know maybe there was someone else in the gang who is now being concealed in homes and maybe the neighbors know maybe someone saw something don t be afraid write about it in detail so that you re not afraid everyone knows that many of you are afraid having lived through such horrors they think that if they write the whole truth about let s say their neighbor or someone else that they will seek revenge later we re going to do it like this we re going to set up an urn and you can throw what you write in there we don t need to know who wrote it the names of the people who write won t be made public but we need all the information let each and every one not be afraid let each write what is necessary who they saw in that gang who made threats or shouted threatening gibes about the armenians you must describe all of these people and put the information into the urn two soldiers and a major guarded the urn and sure enough many people people who didn t even want to write i know one woman who asked me she came up and said you as a russian the same thing won t happen to you as will happen to me so please i ll give you the information and you please write it down for me so she was afraid and there were a lot like her but later after katusev made his speech she sat and wrote down everything she knew and we threw it all into the urn now we don t know if it will be of any use for a factual picture will emerge from all that information one person can lie but thousands can t lie thousands simply can t lie you have to agree with that a fact is a fact why for example should someone say that black is white if it is really black the first deputy chairman of the council of ministers of the azerbaijani ssr mamedov as i said was in yerevan my husband and i were at the council of ministers of the armenian ssr and found out that mamedov was present the one who had come to convince the people of sumgait to return to their previous dwellings to their old apartments we asked for a meeting with him and it was granted when we went to see him he tried to behave properly very politely delicately but when the truth was told right to his face and when i asked him some of the same questions i had asked muslimzade where were you personally when they were beating us now you re trying to convince us to return why didn t you think at the time that they were slaughtering us where it was all leading he says you re telling the truth let s not mince words you ve told me right to my face and i ll tell you straight i ll tell you the pure truth i was gotten out of bed in the evening the whole government was up including me and we were restraining a crowd of about in baku but we never expected that in a city like sumgait with its fine international record such a thing could happen we expected it in baku i say so that means you expected it all the same why were you expecting it and he says you know it just happened that way we were expecting it in baku we were trying to restrain it but in sumgait i say fine you didn t know for the first three or four hours but then you should have known why did no one help us and he says well ok we didn t know what to do and things like that basically it was the same story i got from muslimzade later when he said you go on back the situation in sumgait is favorable now everything is fine the armenians are friendly with the azerbaijanis to this l answered you know what i m speaking with you as a member of a neutral nation i have never argued with armenians or with azerbaijanis and i was an eyewitness you tell me please comrade mamedov i asked him what would you say about this honestly if you were being completely frank with us then he said yes i admit that i am honestly ashamed shame on the entire azerbaijani nation we have disgraced ourselves not only before the entire soviet union but before the whole world because now the voice of america and all the other foreign radio stations of various hues are branding us with all kinds of rumors too and i say there s nothing to add to what really happened i don t think it s possible to add anything more awful he says yes i agree with you i understand your pain it is truly an unfortunate occurrence i repeat that he said unfortunate occurrence and then he suddenly remembered himself what he was saying he had a pen in his hands he was fidgeting with it nervously and said oh excuse me a tragedy really i take this to mean that he really thinks it s an unfortunate occurrence and of course he says i understand that having gone through all this you can t return to sumgait but it s necessary to cool down and realize that all those people are being tried and he even gave a detail which i don t know if it matters or not that policemen were being tried specifically in relation to that bloody affair yes by the way there is another good detail how i was set up at work in baku after the events i went to an undergarment plant there was an azerbaijani working there and suddenly she tells me what they didn t nail your husband they screwed up i was floored i hadn t imagined that anyone in baku too could say something like that well after that i went up to see to my office i needed to find out about those days what was going to happen with them how they were going to put down those days from february to march and the administrator told me i don t know tatyana go to the head of the conductors pool be grateful if they don t put it down as unexcused absence i was really discouraged by this they all know that we were but a hair away from death and barely survived and here they re telling me that i was skipping work as though i was off enjoying myself somewhere i went to the office of the chief of the pool his last name is rasulov and he s had that position for many years incidentally he s a party member and is a big man in town and suddenly when i went to him and said comrade rasulov this is the way it was he looked at me askance and said and why are you he knows me by my previous last name why did you get wrapped up in this mess i say what do you mean why did i get wrapped up in this mess my husband s an armenian i tell him i have an armenian last name and he screwed up his face made a kind of a grimace as though he had eaten something sour and said i didn t expect that you would what did he mean by that and how should he behave the chief of the pool a man who supervises workers now it s true there was a reduction but for sure there are still conductors working for him and if someone who supervises a staff that size says things like that then what can you expect from a simple uneducated politically unsophisticated person he s going to believe any and all rumors that the armenians are like this the armenians are like that and so on by the way that mamedov now i m going back to mamedov s office when i asked him are you really going to guarantee the safety of our lives if we return to sumgait he answered yes you know i would guarantee them i don t want to take on too much i would guarantee them firmly for years but i won t guarantee them for longer than years i say so you ve got another thing like that planned for years from now so they ll be quiet and then in another years it ll happen again i couldn t contain myself any more and i also told him and how did it get to that point certainly you knew about it how they were treating the russians for example in baku and in sumgait how they were hounded from their jobs certainly you received complaints i wrote some myself why did no one respond to them why did everyone ignore what was going on didn t you prepare people for this by the way you treated them and he says you know you re finally starting to insult me he threw his pen on the desk maybe now you ll say i m a scoundrel too i say you know i m not talking about you because i don t know but about the ones who i do know i can say with conviction yes that comrade was involved in this that and that because i know for certain well anyway he assured us that here in yerevan there were false rumors that sumgait armenians were here and were in sumgait and had gotten back to work everyone was working he said and life was very good we drove about the town ourselves comrade arutiunian first secretary of the communist party of armenia ssr came from the council of ministers of armenian he came and brought information showing that everything was fine in sumgait when i asked mamedov how he had reached that conclusion he said well i walked down the street and i said walking down the street in any city even if i were to go to new york i would never understand the situation because i would be a guest i don t have any contact with people but if you spend days among some blue collar workers in such a way that they didn t know you were the first deputy chairman of the council of ministers you d hear something quite different i told him for example that i drew my conclusion when we left the military unit to look at our apartments they took us all in turns to pick things up since people had fled to the military unit they got on the bus just to save themselves as soon as possible how are the neighbors in the microdistrict how will they view us what do they think i thought maybe that in fact it wasn t something general of a mass nature some anti national something and when that bus took us to our building because it was the same bus while we were going up to our apartment an armed soldier accompanied us what does that say it speaks of the fact that if everything there were fine why do we need to have soldiers go there and come back with us going from apartment to apartment and in fact especially with the young people you could sense the delight at our misfortune the grins and they were making comments too and that was in the presence of troops when police detachments were in the microdistricts and armored personnel carriers and tanks were passing by and if people are taking such malicious delight when the situation is like that then what is it going to be like when they withdraw protection from the city altogether there will be more outrages of course perhaps not organized but in the alleys april yerevan reference the sumgait tragedy pogroms against armenians in soviet azerbaijan volume i eyewitness accounts edited by samuel shahmuradian forward by yelena bonner published by aristide d caratzas ny pages david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org how do we explain turkish troops on s d p a center for regional studies the armenian border when we can t p o box even explain cambridge ma turkish mp march
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absood to my fellow columbian i must ask why do you say that i engage in fantasies arafat is a terrorist who happens to have a lot of pull among palestinians can we ignore the two facts i doubt it peace roar lion roar and other niceties pete
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re freedom in u s a ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i have just started reading the articles in this news group there seems to be an attempt by some members to quiet other members with scare tactics i believe one posting said that all postings by one person are being forwarded to his server who keeps a file on him in hope that appropriate action might be taken i don t know where you guys are from but in america such attempts to curtail someones first amendment rights are not appreciated here we let everyone speak their mind regardless of how we feel about it take your fascistic repressive ideals back to where you came from freedom of speech does not mean that others are compelled to give one the means to speak publicly some systems have regulations prohibiting the dissemination of racist and bigoted messages from accounts they issue apparently that s not the case with virginia edu since you are still posting alan h stein astein israel nysernet org
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re argic in article dj pro angmar alfalfa com cosmo pro angmar alfalfa com frank benson writes you definetly are in need of a shrink loser hey cheesedicks stop sending messages to a guy who s not going to read them and who cares anyway
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re the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake in article smith apr minerva harvard edu steven smith writes dgannon techbook techbook com dan gannon writes the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake by theodore j o keefe holocaust revisionism theodore j o keefe is an editor with the institute for historical review educated at harvard university according to the harvard alumni directory mr o keefe failed to graduate you may decide for yourselves if he was indeed educated anywhere forgive any inaccuracies i deleted the original post isn t this the same person who wrote the book and was censured in canada a few years back peg
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re who should be spied on in article c vzdv mxw cs cmu edu anwar cs cmu edu anwar mohammed writes in article c sdck n news cso uiuc edu eshneken ux cso uiuc edu edward a shnekendorf writes anwar cs cmu edu anwar mohammed writes in article bimacs bitnet ehrlich bimacs bitnet gideon ehrlich writes the readers of this forum seemed to be more interested in the contents of those files so it will be nice if yigal will tell us why do american authorities consider yigal arens to be dangerous adl authorities seem to view a lot of people as dangerous including the millions of americans of arab ancestry perhaps you can answer the question as to why the adl maintained files and spied on adc members in california and elsewhere friendly rivalry perhaps come on most if not all arabs are sympathetic to the palestinian war against israel that is why the adl monitors arab organizations that is the same reason the us monitored communist organizations and soviet nationals only a few years ago the adc is an organization of arab americans let me see you re saying that most if not all arab americans should be spied on you re also saying that most if not all arab americans should be views as a national security threat to israel and the us as you gratuitously imply in your reference to the wtc bombing in which no arab americans were involved by inference can we assume that you think that anyone of arab lineage anywhere in the world poses a threat to israel and therefore should be spied on like it or not edward anwar has a very good valid point obviously in presenting it he quite legitimately and deliberately takes a point of view to an extreme which might not have been what you intended but that is one of the best ways to demonstrate a slippery slope type of argument which i believe was his aim i very frankly believe that the adl will be proved innocent in this case i doubt there s enough evidence to weigh against them even in a civil court where preponderance of the evidence not evidence beyond any reasonable doubt is the standard for winning such a case that however does not prevent me from seeing the merit in anwar s point rest deleted how sad to see a model of decorum and tranquillity become like any other sport a battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee tim rice chess eric s perlman perlman qso colorado edu center for astrophysics and space astronomy university of colorado boulder
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re israel s expansion ii in article pp a auvm american edu paul h pimentel pp a auvm american edu writes what gives isreal the right to keep jeruseleum it is the home of the muslim a s well as jewish religion among others heck nobody ever mentions what yitza k shamir did forty or fifty years ago which is terrorize westerners much in the way abdul nidal does today seems isrealis are nowhere above arabs so theref ore they have a right to jerusaleum as much as isreal does what gives the united states the right to keep washington d c
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hamza does it again hamza answers one of my articles to if indeed israeli soldiers killed a hamas mujahid with an anti tank to missile then i m almost sure that the terrorist zionists would not to have been able to cut up a body which was probably desintegrated by the to missile hamza maybe the missile didn t hit directly such that his body hamza gets desintegrated of course destroying houses to hamza kill someone is not a surgical operation or is it well done hamza you edited my answer to anas omran took everything out of context and then replied to it the way you wanted now i really understand why the peace process is not making any progress you guys ain t listening just babbling away to your same old rhetoric tsiel
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re american jewish congress open letter to clinton in article apr vxcrna cern ch casper vxcrna cern ch casper davi ppe writes i said the fixation on bosnia is due to it being in a european country rather than the third world i recall before we did anything for somalia apparent left wingers saying that the reason everyone was more willing to send troops to bosnia than to somalia was because the somalis are third worlders who americans consider unworthy of help they suddenly shut up when the us decided to send troops to the opposite place than that predicted by the theory i am a staunch republican btw the irony of arguing against military intervention with arguments based on vietnam has not escaped me i was opposed to us intervention in somalia for the same reasons although clearly it was not nearly as risky based on the same reasons you mean you were opposed to us intervention in somalia because since somalia is a european country instead of the third world the desire to help somalia is racist i don t think this same reason applies to somalia at all the whole point is that somalia is a third world country and we were more willing to send troops there than to bosnia exactly the opposite of what the fixation on european countries theory would predict similarly the desire to help muslims being fought by christians is also exactly the opposite of what that theory predicts for that matter this theory of yours suggests that americans should want to help the serbs after all they re christian and the muslims are not if the desire to intervene in bosnia is based on racism against people that are less like us why does everyone want to help the side that is less like us especially if both of the sides are equal as you seem to think well one thing you have to remember is the press likes a good story good for business don t you know and btw not everyone wants to help the side that is less like us i m referring to people who want to help at all of course you don t see people sending out press releases help bosnian serbs with ethnic cleansing the muslim presence in the balkans should be eliminated now well except for some serbs but i admit that the desire of serbs in america to help the serbian side probably is because those are people more like them on the first day after christmas my truelove served to me leftover turkey on the second day after christmas my truelove served to me turkey casserole that she made from leftover turkey days deleted flaming turkey wings pizza hut commercial and m tlu a gic bait ken arromdee arromdee jyusenkyou cs jhu edu
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re armenia says it could shoot down turkish planes in article apr kpc com henrik quayle kpc com writes esin terzioglu your ignorance is obvious from your posting esin terzioglu cyprus was an independent country with turkish greek inhabitants not a greek island like your ignorant posting claims esin terzioglu the name should be cyprus in english esin terzioglu next time read and learn before you post aside from spelling why is that you turks do not want to admit your past mistakes you know turkish invasion of cyprus was a mistake and too bad that u n did not do anything about it you may ask mistake yes i would say why is that the greeks did not invade cyprus the greeks did try to invade cyprus just before the turkish intervention they failed just for your info esin
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seventh century a d armenian math problems from quantum magazine march april pages the problem book of anania of shirak on the ancient peak of ararat the centuries have come like seconds and passed on avetik issahakian by yuri danilov some years ago journalists interviewing celebrities liked to ask them what books would you take with you if you were to go off on a space flight and though the number of books allowed on the trip varied from to depending on the type of spacecraft and the generosity of the interviewer and celebrities are people of the most varied tastes ages and professions not one of them dared to say that he or she would want to take with them at least one book of arithmetic problems some of these people certainly excluded this kind of literature because they were trained in the humanities and had nothing but scorn for numbers though secretly afraid of them others steered clear of such puzzle books because they were masters of incomparably more difficult branches of modern mathematics and didn t mind saying for all the world to hear that they didn t know how to solve mere arithmetic problems professional mathematicians were no exception here s what the russian mathematician alexander khinchin a specialist in statistics wrote about arithmetic i willingly confess that any time a fifth grader asked me to help solve an arithmetic problem it was a hard work for me and sometimes i failed completely of course like most of my friends i could easily solve the problem by the natural algebraic route constructing equations or sets of equations but we were supposed to avoid using algebraic analysis at all costs by the way it s a fact that is well known and oft repeated that as a rule neither high school graduates nor students at teaching colleges nor teachers beginning their careers nor i must add scientific researchers can solve arithmetic problems it seems the only people in the world who are able to solve them are fifth grade teachers now i m not insisting that a book of arithmetic problems be included in the bookbag of anyone flying into space but a sense of justice induces me to recommend one particular problem book one that will satisfy the most fastidious taste and supply food for thought sufficient not only for a relatively short flight to the moon but for a extended space voyage say to venus and back one for the road they both took out the books they brought for the road kingsley glanced at the royal astronomer s book and saw a bright cover with a group of cutthroats shooting at each other with revolvers god knows what this kind of stuff leads to thought kingsley the royal astronomer looked at kingsley s book and saw the history of herodotus good lord next he ll be reading thucydides thought the royal astronomer fred hoyle the black cloud the book i m talking about isn t very big but its problems constitute elegant miniatures from seventh century armenia naive and wise at the same time rich in striking detail and the bright coloration of the period these problems are reminiscent of the reliefs on the famous monument of armenian architecture the church on the island of akhtamar in lake van in what is now turkey they are as inseparable from the image of armenia as the elegant letters of the armenian alphabet invented by mesrop mashtots or the songs of komitas or the paintings of saryan an edition of these incredibly beautiful problems has long been a bibliographic rarity it was published under the title problems and solutions of vardapet anania of shirak armenian mathematician of the seventh century translated and published by i a orbeli petrograd the abundance of close observations and wide ranging information about the way of life and customs of that remote epoch when anania of shirak lived and worked have actually rendered a disservice to his problem book for many years the book was known only to researchers in the humanities specialists in armenian history who jealously guarded their treasure and wouldn t let just anyone see it even now after research by k p patkanov the learned monk father kaloust j i orbeli a abramyan v k chaloyan and others has brought the works of anania of shirak to light in scholarly circles the general reader remains ignorant of the very existence of this remarkable problem book vardapet anania of shirak once fell in love with the art of calculation i thought that no philosophical notion can be constructed without number considering it the mother of all wisdom anania of shirak among ancient armenian thinkers vardapet anania of shirak stands out because of the breadth of his interests and the unique mathematical orientation of his work some of his works have been preserved in addition to the problems and solutions the following tracts have found a special place in the estimation of scholars on weights and measures cosmography and calendrical theory and armenian geography of the seventh century a d the authorship of the last work was long attributed to another outstanding thinker of ancient armenia movses of khoren in his autobiography anania of shirak has this to say about himself i anania of shirak having studied all the science of our armenian land and having learned the holy scripture intimately in the expression of the psalmist every day i illuminated the eyes of my mind feeling myself lacking in the art of calculation i came to the conclusion that it is fruitless to study philosophy the mother of all sciences without number i could find in armenia neither a man versed in philosophy nor books that explained the sciences i therefore went to greece and met in theodosiople a man named iliazar who was well versed in ecclesiastical works he told me that in forth armenia there lived a famous mathematician christosatur i went this person and spent six months with him but soon i noticed that christosatur was a master not of all science but only of certain fragmentary facts i then went to constantinople where i met acquaintances who told me why did you go so far when much closer to us in trebizon on the coast of pontus lives the byzantine vardapet tyukhik he is full of wisdom is known to kings and knows armenian literature i asked them how they knew this they answered we saw ourselves that many people traveled long distances to become pupils of so learned a man indeed the archdeacon of the patriarchate of constantinople philagrus traveled with us bringing many young persons to become pupils of tyukhik when i heard this i expressed my gratitude to god who had quenched the thirst of his slave i went to tyukhik at the monastery of st eugene and explained why i had come he received me graciously and said i praise our lord that he sent you to learn and to transplant science in the domain of st gregory i am glad that all your country will learn from me i myself lived in armenia for many years as a youth ignorance reigned there vardapet tyukhik loved me as a son and shared all his thoughts with me the lord bestowed upon me his blessing i completely assimilated the science of number and with such success that my fellow students at the king s court began to envy me i spent eight years with tyukhik and studied many books that had not been translated into our language for the vardapet had an innumerable collection of books secret and explicit ecclesiastical and pagan books on art history and medicine books of chronologies why enumerate them by title in a word there is no book that tyukhik did not have and he had such a gift from the holy spirit for translating that when he sat down to translate something from the greek into armenian he did not struggle as other translators did and the translation read as if the work were written in that language originally tyukhik told me how he had achieved such vast erudition and how he had learned the armenian language when i was young he said i lived in trebizon at the court of the military chief ioannus patricus and for a long time up to the accession of mauritius to the throne i served as a military man in armenia and learned your language and literature during one attack by persian troops on the greeks i was wounded and escaped to antioch i lost all my possessions praying to the lord to heal my wounds i made a promise if you prolong my life i shall dedicate it not to accumulating perishable treasures but to collecting treasures of knowledge and the lord heard my prayers after i recovered i went to jerusalem and from there to alexandria and rome upon returning to constantinople i met a famous philosopher from athens and studied with him for many years after that i returned to my homeland and began to teach and instruct my people after some years that philosopher died not finding a replacement for him the king and his courtiers sent for tyukhik and invited him to assume the teacher s position tyukhik citing the promise he made to god not to move far from the city turned down the offer but because of his wide leaning people came streaming from all countries to study with him and i the most insignificant of all armenians having learned from him this powerful science desired by kings brought it to our country supported by no one obligated only to my own industry god s help and the prayers of the blessed educator and no one thanked me for my efforts problems and solutions a half and one sixth and one nine ninth of all the books were printed on verge one fifth and one two hundred eighty fifth on rag paper one forty fifth and one eight hundred fifty fifth on vellum and forty five inscribed copies on dutch paper and so find how many copies were printed in all imitation of anania of shirak a latin proverb says habent sua fata libelli books have their own fate the fate of problems and solutions by anania of shirak is quite amazing the manuscripts of anania s book were preserved only because according to armenian historians in ancient and medieval armenia manuscripts were guarded from invaders like weapons and cherished like one s own children biding their time the manuscripts lay in the matenadaran a renowned depository of ancient manuscripts now the mesrop mashtots institute of ancient manuscripts and its hour finally arrived in the learned monk father kaloust used two manuscripts to publish the problem book supplementing it with an introduction and commentary in the book was translated into russian edited annotated and typeset by iosef orbeli a prominent scholar and later a member of the academy of sciences of the ussr in the translator s words the problems of anania are amusing full of life and simple orbeli goes on to say the subjects of the problems are generally taken from everyday life the scene is predominantly his homeland shirak and the surrounding countryside and the dramatis personae if they are named are the local princes the kamsarakans including nersekh who was a contemporary of anania like other ancient authors anania of shirak used only aliquots that is fractions with a numerator of when it is necessary to write fractions with numerators other than one has to represent it as a sum of aliquots see the epigraph above like any true work of art the problems of anania suffer terribly in the retelling you have to read the originals albeit in translation in their full glory so let s open anania s problem book a gift from across the ages problems and relate to the armenian uprising against the persians in a d problem my father told me the following story during the famous wars between the armenians and the persians prince zaurak kamsarakan performed extraordinary heroic deeds three times in a single month he attacked the persian troops the first time he struck down half of the persian army the second time pursuing the persians he slaughtered one fourth of the soldiers the third time he destroyed one eleventh of the persian army the persians who were still alive numbering two hundred eighty fled to nakhichevan and so from this remainder find how many persian soldiers there were before the massacre problem during the famous armenian uprising against the persians when zaurak kamsarakan killed suren one of the armenian azats sent an envoy to the persian king to report the baleful news the envoy covered fifty miles in a day fifteen days later when he learned of this zaurak kamsarakan sent riders in pursuit to bring the envoy back the riders covered eighty miles in a day and so find how many days it took them to catch the envoy problem mentions vessels made of varying amounts of metal in the russian translation they are all called dishes but in the original armenian according to orbeli s note the dishes in the first and second instances are called mesur and in the third instance scutel scutel is a common armenian word but mesur had not been encountered in armenian literature before anania s problems and solutions problem there was a tray in my house i melted it down and made other vessels from the metal from one third i made a mesur from one fourth another mesur from one fifth two goblets from one sixth two scutels and from two hundred ten drams i made a bowl and now find the weight of the tray several of the problems reflect the richness of the caucasian fauna in anania s time for instance problem problem once i was in marmet the capital of the kamsarakans strolling along the bank of the river akhuryan i saw a school of fish and ordered that a net be cast we caught a half and a quarter of the school and all the fishes that slipped out of the net ended up in a creel when i looked in the creel i found forty five fishes and now find how many fishes here were in all the temptation is great to present all problems but i ll restrain myself and offer you just one more problem provides some interesting information about the wild animals that inhabited armenia at one time but now extinct for so long that there is no mention of them even in zoological reference books the wild donkey according to the generally accepted view never roamed the armenian lands yet anania of shirak offers evidence to the contrary problem the hunting preserve of nersekh kamsarakan ter of shirak and asharunik was at the base of the mountain called artin one night great herds of wild donkey entered the preserve the hunters could not cope with the donkeys and running to the village of talin told nersekh about them when he arrived with his brothers and azats and entered the preserve they began killing the wild beasts half of the animals were caught in traps one fourth were killed by arrows the young which constituted one twelfth of all the animals were caught alive and three hundred sixty wild donkeys were killed by spears and so find how many beasts there were at the start of this massacre set in type by me iosef orbeli his biography could not be squeezed into the framework of a bibliography k uzbashyan academician iosef abgarovich orbeli anyone who is lucky enough to hold a copy n of the small printing n is the solution to the epigraph in the previous section of the russian translation of anania of shirak s problems and solutions a thin book with yellowed pages has probably noticed the variety of the fonts the elegance of the borders and the high quality of the design printing and binding such great attention to detail is characteristic of works that fulfill a requirement for a degree in bookmaking and this problem book was indeed a kind of diploma attesting to the professional maturity of the man who created it an advertisement at the end of the book reads this book was typeset in december at the printing offices of the russian academy of sciences by me iosef orbeli the text was also proofread laid out and decorated with borders by me various circumstances prevented me from carrying this project to the end the final pages of the book were typeset by m strolman typesetting was neither the first nor the only profession of the renowned orientalist iosef orbeli who later became the director of the hermitage museum in leningrad he was also a cabinetmaker and a locksmith orbeli had already become acquainted with the famous academic printing house typis academiae founded in and known all over the scientific world for its rich collection of fonts and its virtuoso typesetters in preparing to publish the corpus of ancient inscriptions preserved on the walls of armenian churches orbeli found it necessary to create a new font that would preserve the unique signs and ligatures this complicated work was done by m g strolman unfortunately the entire set of letters was destroyed during the blockade of leningrad in world war ii when orbeli came to the printing offices of the academy of sciences times were hard the only way to publish the newly translated problems of anania was for orbeli to learn typesetting he had always been attracted to the printer s craft in orbeli became the director of printing at the academy of sciences even after he retired he remained a tireless champion of russian academic typography back to earth this book by definition does not exhaust all the most important works in this domain the editor hopes that those who are guilty of this incompleteness will read these lines and stung by shame will work up if not a collection like this at least a monograph v bonch bruyevich introduction to the russian translation of solid body symmetry by r knox and a gold let s imagine a time when space flight is an everyday thing and high schoolers will spend their breaks as astronauts in training in the perelman crater on the far side of the moon maybe one of the space travelers will take this very copy of quantum and another looking over her shoulder will read this article and say to himself this anania from shirak seems like a pretty interesting guy when i get home i ll try to find his problems good luck my young friend anania is sure to entertain you perhaps by then there will be more than n copies of his timeless problems and solutions and we can hope they will be as lovingly printed as the masterpieces created by iosef orbeli vardapet or vartabed means teacher or learned man in armenian the armenian language suffers in english from a dual transliteration scheme thus mesrop is often rendered as mesrob komitas as gomidas and so on fourth armenia was one of fifteen provinces into which according to armenian geography in the seventh century a d so called great armenia was divided pontus or pontus euxinus was an old name for the black sea azats were members one of several strata of freemen in ancient armenia ter was the title of the heads of sovereign royal families in ancient armenia david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org how do we explain turkish troops on s d p a center for regional studies the armenian border when we can t p o box even explain cambridge ma turkish mp march
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re to be exact million readers enlightened by serdar argic andrew varvel writes serdar argic a k a serdar argic the merciful and compassionate writes serdar argic s bountiful divine all knowing and footnoted wisdom is regrettably omitted for this solemn tribute where can i join the serdar argic fan club do i get a t shirt the friendly neighborhood alien life just hasn t been the same since david koresh died ah c mon give the guy three days and see what comes up leo disclaimer it wasn t me honest email it was him he made me do it c l gannon newcastle ac uk
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re conventional proposales israel palestinians the latest israeli proposal first proposed in february of contains the following assumptions concerning the nature of any interim status refering to the wb and gaza the palestinians implemented by negotiations it states that israel will remain the existing source of authority until final status is agreed upon israel will negiotiate the delegation of power to the organs of the interim self government arrangements isga the isga will apply to the palestinian inhabitants of the territories under israeli military administration the arrangements will not have a territorial application nor will they apply to the israeli population of the territories or to the palestinian inhabitants of jerusalem residual powers not delegated under the isga will be reserved by israel israelis will continue to live and settle in the territoriesd israel alone will have responsibility for security in all its aspects external internal and for the maintenance of public order the organs of the isga will be of an administrative functional nature the exercise of powers under the isga will be subject to cooperation and coordination with israel israel will negotiate delegation of powers and responsibilities in the areas of administration justice personnel agriculture education business tourism labor and social welfare local police local transportation and communications municipal affairs and religious affairs several question do come to mind concerning the success we all hope for in the ongoing negotiation process these arrangements certainly seem to be essentially a rejection of any palestinian interim self control without exposing itself to unwarranted risks and creating irresversible vulnerability can israel reasonably put forward at later points in the negotiating process more relaxed proposals for this interim period how should proposals from either side be altered to temper their maximalist approaches as stated above how can israeli worries and desire for some interim control be addressed while providing for a very real interim palestinian self governing entity tim later comment there seem to be two perceptions that have to be addressed the first is that of israel where there is little trust for arab groups so there is little support for israel giving up tangible assets in exchange for pieces of paper expectations hopes etc the second is that of the arab world palestinians where there is the demand that these tangible concessions be made by israel without it receiving anything tangible back given this the gap between the two stances seems to be the need by israel of receiving some tangible returns for its expected concessions by tangible is meant something that provides israel with comparable protection from the land it is to give up in some way ensures that the arab states and palestine will be accountable and held actively not just diplomatically responsible for the upholding of all actions on its territory by citizens or visitors israel is hanging on largely because it is scared stiff that the minute it lets go gives lands back to arab states no more buffer zone gives full autonomy to palestinians any and or all of the arab parties could and would if not controlled somehow easily return to the traditional anti israel position the question then is how to really ensure that that will not happen tim clock ph d graduate student uci tel department of politics and society fax university of california irvine
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re israel s expansion ii in article pp a auvm american edu paul h pimentel pp a auvm american edu writes what gives isreal the right to keep jeruseleum it is the home of the muslim a s well as jewish religion among others what gives the us the right to keep new york it is the home of the united nations as well as being home to a myriad of ethnic groups actually nyc is more comparable to the gaza strip the controlling authority would probably be pleased as punch to unload it on someone else but no one seems to want it heck nobody ever mentions what yitzak shamir did forty or fifty years ago which is terrorize westerners much in the way abdul nidal does today seems isrealis are nowhere above arabs so therefore they have a right to jerusaleum as much as isreal does a historical bullshit shamir fought the british who incidentally shipped whole shiploads of jews back to the nazis for extermination and hung those jewish fighters that they captured and didn t want to deal with anymore shamir did not attack civilians on airliners cruise ships in airports sports events movie theaters markets on buses and children in schoolyards your comparison to a master murderer like abu nidal is blind jake livni jake bony bony com ten years from now george bush will american occupied new york have replaced jimmy carter as the my opinions only employer has no opinions standard of a failed president
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re the u s holocaust memorial museum a costly and dangerous mistake it s all my fault i am in violation of one of my own rules avoid followingup to a barf posting in article r pb nkk genesis mcs com arf genesis mcs com jack schmidling writes in article c ut s xa bony bony com jake bony bony com jake livni writes through private contributions on federal land your hate mongering article is devoid of current and historical fact intellectual content and social value down the toilet it goes and we all know what an unbiased source the nyt is when it comes to things concerning israel those damned spiking israelists right barfling neither the times nor the trained seals who have responded thus far seem to trained seals you mean the ones that flap their flippers making arf arf arf arf sounds recognize the statement that these private funds were all tax exmpt in otherwords american taxpayers put up at least of the money and finalyy how does federal land mitigate the offensiveness of this alien monument dedicated to perpetuating pitty and the continual flow of tax money to a foreign entity in your own diseased mind you now seem to believe that tax exemption is equivalent to government funding holy shit batman the us government is now one of the major supporters of the catholic church in violation of the rules of separation of church and state that federal land and tax money could have been used to commerate americans or better yet to house homeless americans quick bill commandeer all the churches and give them to the people or does your anti logic only apply to the mosques belonging to what you have described as ragheads or perhaps the synagogues of those you have characterized as hymies jake livni jake bony bony com ten years from now george bush will american occupied new york have replaced jimmy carter as the my opinions only employer has no opinions standard of a failed president
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israeli media was re israeli terrorism in article bd c d news service uci edu tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock writes in article apr virginia edu ab z virginia edu andi beyer writes i think the israeli press might be a tad bit biased in reporting the events i doubt the propaganda machine of goering reported accurately on what was happening in germany it is interesting that you are basing the truth on israeli propaganda since one is also unlikely to get the truth from either arab or palestinian news outlets where do we go to understand to learn is one form of propoganda more reliable than another the only way to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer s political agenda whether it is on or against our side tim to andi i have to disagree with you about the value of israeli news sources if you want to know about events in palestine it makes more sense to get the news directly from the source every news source is inherently biased to some extent and for various reasons both intentional and otherwise however the more sources relied upon the easier it is to see the truth and to discern the bias go read or listen to some israeli media you will learn more news and more opinion about israel and palestine by doing so then you can form your own opinions and hopefully they will be more informed even if your views don t change brad hernlem hernlem chess ncsu edu jake can call me doctor mohandes brad ali hernlem as of last wednesday
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re lezgians astir in azerbaijan and daghestan in article hydra gatech edu gt a prism gatech edu gt a gt a kaan timucin wrote kt hello shit face david i see that you are still around i dont want to kt see your shitty writings posted here man i told you so close your eyes and walk away kt you are getting itchy as your fucking country i have been defending the history of the armenians on this network for over six years i have seen the likes of you enter his forum make fools of themselves and simply vanish as did the armenians in kt hey and dont give me that freedom of speach bullshit once more realize sir you are not in turkey in the usa freedom of speech is not considered bullshit it is because of such freedoms that turks like yourself are allowed to attend georgia tech kt because your freedom has ended when you started writing things about my kt people and try to translate this ebenin donu butti kafa david what s the problem if you can t stand the heat leave your government murdered million armenians and you would have me stay quiet to suit your personal fancy or some fascist fetish regarding the greatness of turkey well that is simply too bad kt bye anacim hade kt timucin pis bogaz david davidian dbd urartu sdpa org armenia has not learned a lesson in s d p a center for regional studies anatolia and has forgotten the p o box punishment inflicted on it cambridge ma late turkish president turgut ozal
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re seventh century a d armenian math problems problem my father told me the following story during the famous wars between the armenians and the persians prince zaurak kamsarakan performed extraordinary heroic deeds three times in a single month he attacked the persian troops the first time he struck down half of the persian army the second time pursuing the persians he slaughtered one fourth of the soldiers the third time he destroyed one eleventh of the persian army the persians who were still alive numbering two hundred eighty fled to nakhichevan and so from this remainder find how many persian soldiers there were before the massacre answer a a corollary armenians strike slaughter destroy and massacre after all they are not as innocent as the asala network claims
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