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ูˆูƒุงู† ุฐู„ูƒ ุจุงู„ุทุจุน ุณุคุงู„ุงู‹ ุฃุฑุฏุช ู…ุนุฑูุฉ ุงู„ุฅุฌุงุจุฉ ุนู†ู‡.
And that, of course, had been a question I wanted to know.
ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ุŒ ุฏุงุฑูˆูŠู† ูุณุฑ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ ุจุนุฏ ุจุฏุฆู‡ุงุŒ ู„ูƒู† ู…ุงุฐุง ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุงู‡ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉุŸ
You know, Darwin explained life after it got started, but what was the essence of life?
ูˆู‚ุงู„ ุดุฑูˆุฏูŠู†ุฌุฑ ุฃู† ู…ุงู‡ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ ูƒุงู†ุช ุนุจุงุฑุฉ ุนู† ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุช ู…ูˆุฌูˆุฏุฉ ููŠ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุชู†ุงุŒ ูˆูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ู…ูˆุฌูˆุฏุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุฌุฒูŠุก. ู„ู… ุฃูƒู† ู‚ุฏ ููƒุฑุช ุจุงู„ุฌุฒูŠุฆุงุช ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„.
And Schrodinger said the essence was information present in our chromosomes, and it had to be present on a molecule. I'd never really thought of molecules before.
ุชุนุฑููˆู† ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุชุŒ ู„ูƒู† ูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุง ุฌุฒูŠุฆุงู‹ุŒ ูˆุจุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ู…ุงุŒ ูƒู„ ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุช ูƒุงู†ุช ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃุฑุฌุญ ู…ูˆุฌูˆุฏุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ูŠุฆุฉ ุฑู‚ู…ูŠุฉ ู…ุง. ูˆูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงู„ูƒ ุงู„ุณุคุงู„ ุงู„ูƒุจูŠุฑ ุนู† ูƒูŠู ูŠุชู… ู†ุณุฎ ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุชุŸ
You know chromosomes, but this was a molecule, and somehow all the information was probably present in some digital form. And there was the big question of, how did you copy the information?
ุฅุฐุงุŒ ูƒุงู† ุฐู„ูƒ ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ูƒุชุงุจ. ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุŒ ู…ู† ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ู„ุญุธุฉุŒ ุฃุฑุฏุช ุฃู† ุฃุตุจุญ ุนุงู„ู… ูˆุฑุงุซุฉ -- ุฃูู‡ู… ุงู„ุฌูŠู†ุŒ ูˆู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุฐู„ูƒ ุฃูู‡ู… ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ.
So that was the book. And so, from that moment on, I wanted to be a geneticist -- understand the gene and, through that, understand life.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุจุทู„ุงู‹ ุจุนูŠุฏุงู‹ ุนู†ูŠ.
So I had, you know, a hero at a distance.
ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ุงุนุจ ูƒุฑุฉ ุณู„ุฉุŒ ูƒุงู† "ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ุจูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ".
It wasn't a baseball player; it was Linus Pauling.
ูˆู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู‚ุฏู…ุช ุทู„ุจุงู‹ ู„ูƒุงู„ุชูŠูƒ ูˆุฑูุถูˆู†ูŠ.
And so I applied to Caltech and they turned me down.
ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ุฐู‡ุจุช ู„ ุฅู†ุฏูŠุงู†ุงุŒ ูˆุงู„ุชูŠ ูƒุงู†ุช ููŠ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุจุฌูˆุฏุฉ ูƒุงู„ุชูŠูƒ ููŠ ุนู„ู… ุงู„ูˆุฑุงุซุฉุŒ ุจุงู„ุฅุถุงูุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู…ุชู„ุงูƒู‡ู… ู„ูุฑูŠู‚ ูƒุฑุฉ ุณู„ุฉ ุฌูŠุฏ ุจุงู„ูุนู„. ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠ ููŠ ุฅู†ุฏูŠุงู†ุง ุญูŠุงุฉ ุณุนูŠุฏุฉ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุดูŠุก.
So I went to Indiana, which was actually as good as Caltech in genetics, and besides, they had a really good basketball team. So I had a really quite happy life at Indiana.
ูˆููŠ ุงู†ุฏูŠุงู†ุง ุญุตู„ุช ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ููƒุฑุฉ ุจุฃู†ู‡ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ุŒ ุงู„ุฌูŠู† ู‡ูˆ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃุฑุฌุญ DNA.
And it was at Indiana I got the impression that, you know, the gene was likely to be DNA.
ุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุฃุญุตู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฏูƒุชูˆุฑุงู‡ุŒ ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ุฃุฐู‡ุจ ู„ุฃุจุญุซ ููŠ ุงู„ DNA.
And so when I got my Ph.D., I should go and search for DNA.
ูุฐู‡ุจุช ููŠ ุงู„ุจุฏุงูŠุฉ ุงู„ู‰ ูƒูˆุจู†ู‡ุงุฌู† ู„ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ููƒุฑุช ุจุฃู†ู†ูŠุŒ ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ู‚ุฏ ุฃุตุจุญ ุนุงู„ู…ุงู‹ ููŠ ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก ุงู„ุญูŠูˆูŠุฉ. ู„ูƒู†ู†ูŠ ุงูƒุชุดูุช ุจุฃู† ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก ุงู„ุญูŠูˆูŠุฉ ูƒู†ุช ู…ู…ู„ุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹.
So I first went to Copenhagen because I thought, well, maybe I could become a biochemist, but I discovered biochemistry was very boring.
ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ุชุชุฌู‡ ุจุฃูŠ ุดูƒู„ ุจุงุชุฌุงู‡ ุงู„ู‚ูˆู„ ุจู…ุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุฌูŠู†. ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุฌุฑุฏ ุนู„ู… ุงู„ู†ูˆุงุฉ. ูˆู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ูƒุชุงุจุŒ ูƒุชุงุจ ุตุบูŠุฑ.
It wasn't going anywhere toward, you know, saying what the gene was; it was just nuclear science. And oh, that's the book, little book.
ุชุณุชุทูŠุน ุฃู† ุชู‚ุฑุฃู‡ ุจู…ุง ูŠู‚ุงุฑุจ ุงู„ุณุงุนุชูŠู†.
You can read it in about two hours.
ูˆ.. ู„ูƒู† ุจุนุฏู‡ุง ุฐู‡ุจุช ู„ุญุถูˆุฑ ู„ู‚ุงุก ุนู„ู…ูŠ ููŠ ุงูŠุทุงู„ูŠุง.
And -- but then I went to a meeting in Italy.
ูˆูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ู…ุชุญุฏุซุงู‹ ุบูŠุฑ ู…ุชูˆู‚ุน ูˆู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ุจุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุซูŠู†ุŒ ูˆุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ุงู„ DNA.
And there was an unexpected speaker who wasn't on the program, and he talked about DNA.
ูˆูƒุงู† ุฐู„ูƒ ู…ูˆุฑูŠุณ ูˆู„ูƒู†ุฒ. ูƒุงู† ู…ุฏุฑุจุงู‹ ูƒููŠุฒูŠุงุฆูŠุŒ ูˆุจุนุฏ ุงู„ุญุฑุจ ุฃุฑุงุฏ ุฃู† ูŠุชุฌู‡ ุงู„ู‰ ุงู„ููŠุฒูŠุงุก ุงู„ุญูŠูˆูŠุฉุŒ ูˆุงุฎุชุงุฑ ุงู„ DNA ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ูƒุงู† ู‚ุฏ ุชู… ุชุญุฏูŠุฏ ุงู„ DNA ููŠ ู…ุนู‡ุฏ ุฑูˆูƒูู„ุฑ ู„ุงุญุชู…ุงู„ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ุงู„ุฌุฒูŠุก ุงู„ู…ุญุชูˆูŠ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฌูŠู†ุงุช ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช.
And this was Maurice Wilkins. He was trained as a physicist, and after the war he wanted to do biophysics, and he picked DNA because DNA had been determined at the Rockefeller Institute to possibly be the genetic molecules on the chromosomes.
ุงุนุชู‚ุฏ ู…ุนุธู… ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ุฃู† ุงู„ุจุฑูˆุชูŠู†ุงุช ูƒุงู†ุช ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ู…ุณุคูˆู„ุฉ.
Most people believed it was proteins.
ู„ูƒู† ูˆูŠู„ูƒูŠู†ุฒุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุงุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ุงู„ DNA ูƒุงู† ุงู„ู…ุฑุดุญ ุงู„ุฃูุถู„ุŒ ูˆู‚ุงู… ุจุนุฑุถ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุตูˆุฑุฉ ุงู„ู…ุฃุฎูˆุฐุฉ ุจุฃุดุนุฉ X.
But Wilkins, you know, thought DNA was the best bet, and he showed this x-ray photograph.
ุดูƒู„ ุจู„ูˆุฑูŠ ู…ุง. ุฅุฐุง ุงู„ DNA ูƒุงู† ู„ู‡ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุจู†ูŠุฉุŒ ู…ุน ุฃู†ู‡ุง ุฃุชุช ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃุฑุฌุญ ู…ู† ุนุฏุฉ ุฌุฒูŠุฆุงุช ุชุญู…ู„ ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุงุช ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ุชุนู„ูŠู…ุงุช.
Sort of crystalline. So DNA had a structure, even though it owed it to probably different molecules carrying different sets of instructions.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงู„ูƒ ุดูŠุก ุนุงู… ุนู† ุฌุฒูŠุก ุงู„ DNA.
So there was something universal about the DNA molecule.
ู„ุฐุง ุฃุฑุฏุช ุงู„ุนู…ู„ ู…ุนู‡ุŒ ู„ูƒู†ู‡ ู„ู… ูŠุฑุฏ ู…ุฑุงู‚ุจ ุนุตุงููŠุฑ ุณุงุจู‚ุŒ ูˆุงู†ุชู‡ู‰ ุจูŠ ุงู„ู…ุทุงู ููŠ ุฌุงู…ุนุฉ ูƒูŠู…ุจุฑุฏุฌ ููŠ ุงู†ุฌู„ุชุฑุง.
So I wanted to work with him, but he didn't want a former birdwatcher, and I ended up in Cambridge, England.
ุฅุฐุง ุฐู‡ุจุช ู„ูƒูŠู…ุจุฑุฏุฌุŒ ู„ุฃู†ู‡ุง ูƒุงู†ุช ูุนู„ุงู‹ ุฃูุถู„ ู…ูƒุงู† ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุญูŠู†ู‡ุง ู„ู„ุชุตูˆูŠุฑ ุงู„ุจู„ูˆุฑูŠ ุจุฃุดุนุฉ X. ูˆุงู„ุชุตูˆูŠุฑ ุงู„ุจู„ูˆุฑูŠ ุจุฃุดุนุฉ X ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุขู† ู…ูˆุถูˆุน ููŠุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุฃู‚ุณุงู… ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก.
So I went to Cambridge, because it was really the best place in the world then for x-ray crystallography. And x-ray crystallography is now a subject in, you know, chemistry departments.
ุฃุนู†ูŠุŒ ููŠ ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฒู…ู† ูƒุงู† ุถู…ู† ู…ุฌุงู„ ุนู„ู…ุงุก ุงู„ููŠุฒูŠุงุก.
I mean, in those days it was the domain of the physicists.
ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ุฃูุถู„ ู…ูƒุงู† ู„ู„ุชุตูˆูŠุฑ ุงู„ุจู„ูˆุฑูŠ ุจุฃุดุนุฉ X ููŠ ู…ุฎุชุจุฑ ูƒุงูู†ุฏูŠุด ููŠ ูƒู…ุจุฑุฏุฌ.
So the best place for x-ray crystallography was at the Cavendish Laboratory at Cambridge.
ูˆู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุงู„ุชู‚ูŠุช ุจูุฑุงู†ุณูŠุณ ูƒุฑูŠูƒ.
And there I met Francis Crick.
ุฐู‡ุจุช ู‡ู†ุงู„ูƒ ุฏูˆู† ุฃู† ุฃุนุฑูู‡. ูƒุงู† ููŠ ุณู† ุงู„ 35. ูˆุฃู†ุง ููŠ ุณู† ุงู„ 23.
I went there without knowing him. He was 35. I was 23.
ูˆุฎู„ุงู„ ูŠูˆู…ุŒ ู‚ุฑุฑู†ุง ุฃู†ู†ุง ู‚ุฏ ู†ุณุชุทูŠุน ุงุชุจุงุน ุทุฑูŠู‚ ู…ุฎุชุตุฑุฉ ู„ู†ุนุฑู ุจู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ DNA.
And within a day, we had decided that maybe we could take a shortcut to finding the structure of DNA.
ู„ุง ุฃู† ู†ุฌุฏ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุจุฃุณู„ูˆุจ ูุงุฆู‚ ุงู„ุฏู‚ุฉุŒ ู„ูƒู† ุจุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…. ู…ุฌุณู… ูƒู‡ุฑุจุงุฆูŠุŒ ุจุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ุจุนุถ ุงุญุฏุงุซูŠุงุช ุงู„.. ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุงู„ุทูˆู„ุŒ ูƒู„ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุก ู…ู† ุตูˆุฑ ุฃุดุนุฉ X.
Not solve it like, you know, in rigorous fashion, but build a model, an electro-model, using some coordinates of, you know, length, all that sort of stuff from x-ray photographs.
ู„ูƒู† ูู‚ุท ุจุงู„ุณุคุงู„ ู…ุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุฌุฒูŠุก -- ูƒูŠู ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠู„ุชู.
But just ask what the molecule -- how should it fold up?
ูˆุณุจุจ ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุฐู„ูƒุŒ ููŠ ูˆุณุท ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุตูˆุฑุฉุŒ ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ. ู‚ุจู„ 6 ุฃุดู‡ุฑ ุชู‚ุฑูŠุจุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงู‚ุชุฑุงุญู‡ ู„ุจู†ูŠุฉ ุฃู„ูุง ุงู„ุญู„ุฒูˆู†ูŠุฉ ู„ู„ุจุฑูˆุชูŠู†ุงุช. ูˆุจูุนู„ู‡ ู„ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ูƒุงู† ู‚ุฏ ู†ูู‰ ุงู„ุฑุฌู„ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู‚ู ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ูŠู…ูŠู†ุŒ ุงู„ุณูŠุฑ ู„ูˆุฑู†ุณ ุจุฑุงุบุŒ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูƒุงู† ุฃุณุชุงุฐ ู…ุฎุชุจุฑ ูƒุงูู†ุฏุด.
And the reason for doing so, at the center of this photograph, is Linus Pauling. About six months before, he proposed the alpha helical structure for proteins. And in doing so, he banished the man out on the right, Sir Lawrence Bragg, who was the Cavendish professor.
ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุตูˆุฑุฉ ุงู„ุชู‚ุทุช ุจุนุฏ ุจุถุนุฉ ุณู†ูˆุงุชุŒ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏู‰ ุจุฑุงุบ ุณุจุจุงู‹ ู„ูŠุจุชุณู….
This is a photograph several years later, when Bragg had cause to smile.
ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ูŠุจุชุณู… ุจุงู„ุทุจุน ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูˆุตู„ุช ุฃู†ุง ู‡ู†ุงูƒุŒ ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ูƒุงู† ู‚ุฏ ุฃู‡ูŠู† ู†ูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ุง ุจุชูˆุตู„ ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ ู„ุฃู„ูุง ุงู„ุญู„ุฒูˆู†ูŠุฉุŒ ูˆุงู„ุฌู…ุงุนุฉ ููŠ ูƒู…ุจุฑุฏุฌ ูŠุฎูู‚ูˆู† ู„ุฃู†ู‡ู… ู„ู… ูŠูƒูˆู†ูˆุง ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุฆูŠูŠู†.
He certainly wasn't smiling when I got there, because he was somewhat humiliated by Pauling getting the alpha helix, and the Cambridge people failing because they weren't chemists.
ูˆุจุงู„ุทุจุน ู„ู… ู†ูƒู† ู„ุง ุฃู†ุง ูˆู„ุง ูƒุฑูŠูƒ ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุฆูŠูŠู†ุŒ ู„ุฐุง ุญุงูˆู„ู†ุง ุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…. ูˆู„ู‚ุฏ ุนุฑู ู‡ูˆ.. ูุฑุงู†ุณูŠุณ ุนุฑู ูˆู„ูƒู†ุฒ.
And certainly, neither Crick or I were chemists, so we tried to build a model. And he knew, Francis knew Wilkins.
ู„ุฐุง ู‚ุงู„ ูˆู„ูƒู†ุฒ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ูŠุนุชู‚ุฏ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ุญู„ุฒูˆู†ูŠ.
So Wilkins said he thought it was the helix.
ุชุฎุทูŠุท ุฃุดุนุฉ XุŒ ููƒุฑ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ูŠุดุจู‡ ุงู„ุดูƒู„ ุงู„ู„ูˆู„ุจูŠ.
X-ray diagram, he thought was comparable with the helix.
ู„ุฐุง ู‚ู…ู†ุง ุจุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู… ุจุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุฃุดุฑุทุฉ.
So we built a three-stranded model.
ุฌุงุฆุช ุงู„ุฌู…ุงุนุฉ ู…ู† ู„ู†ุฏู†.
The people from London came up.
ูˆูŠู„ูƒู†ุฒ ูˆู…ุนุงูˆู†ุชู‡ุŒ ุฃูˆ ู…ุนุงูˆู†ุชู‡ ุงู„ู…ุญุชู…ู„ุฉุŒ ุฑูˆุฒุงู„ูŠู†ุฏ ูุฑุงู†ูƒู„ูŠู†ุŒ ุฌุงุกุง ูˆุถุญูƒุง ู†ูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ุง ู…ู† ู…ุฌุณู…ู†ุง.
Wilkins and this collaborator, or possible collaborator, Rosalind Franklin, came up and sort of laughed at our model.
ู‚ุงู„ูˆุง ุจุฃู†ู‡ ูƒุงู† ุฑุฏูŠุกุŒ ูˆูƒุงู† ูƒุฐู„ูƒ.
They said it was lousy, and it was.
ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู‚ูŠู„ ู„ู†ุง ุจุฃู† ู„ุง ู†ุจู†ูŠ ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช ุฃุฎุฑู‰ุ› ู„ุฃู†ู†ุง ุบูŠุฑ ู…ุคู‡ู„ูŠู†.
So we were told to build no more models; we were incompetent.
ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู„ู… ู†ู‚ู… ุจุจู†ุงุก ุฃูŠ ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุชุŒ ูˆุฃูƒู…ู„ ูุฑุงู†ุณูŠุณ ู†ูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ุง ุนู…ู„ู‡ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุจุฑูˆุชูŠู†ุงุช.
And so we didn't build any models, and Francis sort of continued to work on proteins.
ูˆุจุจุณุงุทุฉุŒ ู„ู… ุฃูุนู„ ุดูŠุฆุงู‹. ูˆ -- ุนุฏุง ุงู„ู‚ุฑุงุกุฉ.
And basically, I did nothing. And -- except read.
ูˆุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ููŠ ุงู„ุฃุณุงุณุŒ ุงู„ู‚ุฑุงุกุฉ ุดูŠุก ุฌูŠุฏุ› ุชุญุตู„ูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚.
You know, basically, reading is a good thing; you get facts.
ูˆุงุณุชู…ุฑูŠู†ุง ุจุงู„ู‚ูˆู„ ู„ู„ุฌู…ุงุนุฉ ููŠ ู„ู†ุฏู† ุจุฃู† ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ ุณูŠู†ุชู‚ู„ ู„ูŠุจุฏุฃ ุงู„ุจุญุซ ููŠ ุงู„ DNA.
And we kept telling the people in London that Linus Pauling's going to move on to DNA.
ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ุงู„ DNA ุจุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฃู‡ู…ูŠุฉุŒ ูุณูŠุนู„ู… ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ุฐู„ูƒ.
If DNA is that important, Linus will know it.
ุณูŠู‚ูˆู… ุจุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…ุŒ ูˆุจุนุฏู‡ุง ุณู†ุญู‚ู‚ ุณุจู‚ุงู‹ ุตุญููŠุงู‹.
He'll build a model, and then we're going to be scooped.
ูˆููŠ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉุŒ ู‚ุงู… ุจู…ุฑุงุณู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู…ุงุนุฉ ููŠ ู„ู†ุฏู†: ู‡ู„ ุจุฅู…ูƒุงู†ู‡ ุฑุคูŠุฉ ุตูˆุฑุฉ ุฃุดุนุฉ X ุงู„ุฎุงุตุฉ ุจู‡ู…ุŸ
And, in fact, he'd written the people in London: Could he see their x-ray photograph?
ูˆูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ู…ู† ุงู„ุญูƒู…ุฉ ู…ุง ูŠูƒููŠ ู„ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆุง "ู„ุง". ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู„ู… ูŠุญุตู„ ุนู„ูŠู‡ุง.
And they had the wisdom to say "no." So he didn't have it.
ู„ูƒู† ูƒุงู† ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุนุฏุฏ ู…ู†ู‡ุง ููŠ ุงู„ู†ุดุฑุงุช ุงู„ุนู„ู…ูŠุฉ.
But there was ones in the literature.
ููŠ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉุŒ ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ู„ู… ูŠุจุญุซ ุนู†ู‡ุง ุจุฏู‚ุฉ.
Actually, Linus didn't look at them that carefully.
ู„ูƒู† ุจุนุฏ ุญูˆุงู„ูŠุŒ ุขู‡ุŒ 15 ุดู‡ุฑุงู‹ ู…ู† ูˆุตูˆู„ูŠ ู„ูƒู…ุจุฑุฏุฌุŒ ุจุฏุฃุช ุฅุดุงุนุฉ ุจุงู„ุธู‡ูˆุฑ ู…ู† ุงุจู† ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบุŒ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูƒุงู† ููŠ ูƒู…ุจุฑุฏุฌุŒ ู‚ุงู„ ุจุฃู† ุฃุจุงู‡ ูƒุงู† ูŠุนู…ู„ ุญุงู„ูŠุงู‹ ุนู„ู‰ ุฌุฒูŠุก ุงู„ DNA.
But about, oh, 15 months after I got to Cambridge, a rumor began to appear from Linus Pauling's son, who was in Cambridge, that his father was now working on DNA.
ูˆุฅุฐุงู‹ุŒ ููŠ ูŠูˆู… ู…ุง ุฌุงุก ุจูŠุชุฑ ูˆู‚ุงู„ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ุจูŠุชุฑ ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบุŒ ูˆุฃุนุทุงู†ูŠ ู†ุณุฎุฉ ู…ู† ู…ุฎุทูˆุทุงุช ูˆุงู„ุฏู‡.
And so, one day Peter came in and he said he was Peter Pauling, and he gave me a copy of his father's manuscripts.
ูˆูŠุง ู„ู„ู‡ูˆู„ุŒ ูƒู†ุช ุฎุงุฆูุงู‹ ู„ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ููƒุฑุชุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุจุฃู†ู†ุง ู‚ุฏ ู†ุญู‚ู‚ ุณุจู‚ุงู‹ ุตุญููŠุงู‹.
And boy, I was scared because I thought, you know, we may be scooped.
ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ุฏูŠ ุดูŠุก ู„ูุนู„ู‡ุŒ ู„ูŠุณ ู„ุฏูŠ ู…ุคู‡ู„ุงุช ู„ุดูŠุก.
I have nothing to do, no qualifications for anything.
ูˆุฅุฐุงุŒ ู‡ุง ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ูˆุฑู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุนู„ู…ูŠุฉุŒ ูŠู‚ุชุฑุญ ููŠู‡ุง ุจู†ูŠุฉ ุจุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุฃุดุฑุทุฉ.
And so there was the paper, and he proposed a three-stranded structure.
ูˆู‚ุฑุฃุชู‡ุงุŒ ูˆูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุฌุฑุฏ -- ูƒุงู†ุช ู‡ุฑุงุกุงู‹.
And I read it, and it was just -- it was crap.
ูˆูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุงุŒ ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุบูŠุฑ ู…ุชูˆู‚ุน ู…ู…ู† ู‡ูˆ ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุณุชูˆู‰ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…... -- ูˆุฅุฐุงู‹ุŒ ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุฑุชุจุทุฉ ู…ุน ุจุนุถู‡ุง ุงู„ุจุนุถ ุจุฑูˆุงุจุท ู‡ูŠุฏุฑูˆุฌูŠู†ูŠุฉ ุจูŠู† ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุงุช ุงู„ููˆุณูุงุช.
So this was, you know, unexpected from the world's -- -- and so, it was held together by hydrogen bonds between phosphate groups.
ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ุฃุนู„ู‰ ู…ุณุชูˆู‰ ุญู…ูˆุถุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ุฎู„ุงูŠุง ู‡ูˆ 7ุŒ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฑูˆุงุจุท ุงู„ู‡ูŠุฏุฑูˆุฌูŠู†ูŠุฉ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ู…ูˆุฌูˆุฏุฉ.
Well, if the peak pH that cells have is around seven, those hydrogen bonds couldn't exist.
ุฐู‡ุจู†ุง ู…ุณุฑุนูŠู† ู„ู‚ุณู… ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก ูˆู‚ู„ู†ุงุŒ "ู‡ู„ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ ุนู„ู‰ ุญู‚ุŸ" ูู‚ุงู„ ุงู„ูŠูƒุณ ู‡ุณุช: "ู„ุง". ู„ุฐุง ูƒู†ุง ูุฑุญูŠู†.
We rushed over to the chemistry department and said, "Could Pauling be right?" And Alex Hust said, "No." So we were happy.
ูˆุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ูƒู†ุง ู„ุง ู†ุฒุงู„ ููŠ ุงู„ู„ุนุจุฉุŒ ู„ูƒู†ู†ุง ูƒู†ุง ุฎุงุฆููŠู† ุจุฃู† ูŠู‚ูˆู„ ุฃุญุฏู‡ู… ู…ู† ูƒุงู„ุชูŠูƒ ู„ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ู…ุฎุทุฆ.
And, you know, we were still in the game, but we were frightened that somebody at Caltech would tell Linus that he was wrong.
ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู‚ุงู„ ุจุฑุงุบ: "ุงุจู†ูˆุง ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช."
And so Bragg said, "Build models."
ูˆุจุนุฏ ุดู‡ุฑ ู…ู† ุญุตูˆู„ู†ุง ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุฎุทูˆุทุงุช ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ.. ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ุฃู‚ูˆู„ ุจุฃู†ูŠ ุฃุฎุฐุช ุงู„ู…ุฎุทูˆุทุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ู„ู†ุฏู†ุŒ ูˆุนุฑุถุชู‡ุง ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฌู…ุงุนุฉ.
And a month after we got the Pauling manuscript -- I should say I took the manuscript to London, and showed the people.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ุŒ ู‚ู„ุช ุจุฃู† ู„ุงูŠู†ุณ ูƒุงู† ู…ุฎุทุฆุงู‹ ูˆุจุฃู†ู†ุง ู…ุงุฒู„ู†ุง ููŠ ุงู„ู„ุนุจุฉ ูˆุจุฃู†ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ู… ุงู„ุจุฏุก ุจุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช ููˆุฑุงู‹.
Well, I said, Linus was wrong and that we're still in the game and that they should immediately start building models.
ู„ูƒู† ูˆู„ูƒู†ุฒ ู‚ุงู„: "ู„ุง"ุŒ ุฑูˆุฒุงู„ูŠู†ุฏ ูุฑุงู†ูƒู„ูŠู† ูƒุงู†ุช ุณุชุบุงุฏุฑ ุฎู„ุงู„ ุดู‡ุฑูŠู†ุŒ ูˆุจุนุฏ ุฃู† ุชุบุงุฏุฑ ุณูŠุจุฏุฃ ุจุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช.
But Wilkins said "no." Rosalind Franklin was leaving in about two months, and after she left he would start building models.
ูˆุฅุฐุงู‹ ุนุฏุช ุฅู„ู‰ ูƒู…ุจุฑุฏุฌ ุจุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฃุฎุจุงุฑุŒ ูˆู‚ุงู„ ุจุฑุงุบ: "ุงุจู†ูˆุง ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช."
And so I came back with that news to Cambridge, and Bragg said, "Build models."
ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุจุงู„ุทุจุน ุฃุฑุฏุช ุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช.
Well, of course, I wanted to build models.
ูˆู‡ุฐู‡ ุตูˆุฑุฉ ู„ุฑูˆุฒุงู„ูŠู†ุฏ. ูƒุงู†ุช ูุนู„ุงู‹ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ู† ู†ุงุญูŠุฉ ุนุงู„ู…ุฉ ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุกุŒ ู„ูƒู† ูƒุงู† ู‚ุฏ ุชู… ุชุฏุฑูŠุจู‡ุง ... ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ุชุนุฑู ุฃูŠ ู…ู† ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก ุงู„ุนุถูˆูŠุฉ ุฃูˆ ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก ุงู„ูƒู…ู‘ูŠุฉ.
And there's a picture of Rosalind. She really, you know, in one sense she was a chemist, but really she would have been trained -- she didn't know any organic chemistry or quantum chemistry.
ูƒุงู†ุช ุฎุจูŠุฑุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ุชุตูˆูŠุฑ ุงู„ุจู„ูˆุฑูŠ.
She was a crystallographer.
ูˆุฃุธู† ุจุฃู† ุฌุฒุกุงู‹ ู…ู† ุณุจุจ ุนุฏู… ุฑุบุจุชู‡ุง ููŠ ุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุช ูƒุงู† ุนุฏู… ูƒูˆู†ู‡ุง ุนุงู„ู…ุฉ ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ูƒุงู† ุจุงูˆู„ูŠู†ุบ ุนุงู„ู… ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก.
And I think part of the reason she didn't want to build models was, she wasn't a chemist, whereas Pauling was a chemist.
ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุŒ ู‚ู…ุช ุฃู†ุง ูˆูƒุฑูŠูƒุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุจุงู„ุจุฏุก ุจุจู†ุงุก ู…ุฌุณู…ุงุชุŒ ูˆู‚ู…ุช ุจุชุนู„ู… ุงู„ู‚ู„ูŠู„ ู…ู† ุงู„ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุกุŒ ู„ูƒู† ู„ูŠุณ ุจุงู„ู‚ุฏุฑ ุงู„ูƒุงููŠ.
And so Crick and I, you know, started building models, and I'd learned a little chemistry, but not enough.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ุŒ ุญุตู„ู†ุง ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฅุฌุงุจุฉ ููŠ 28 ู…ู† ุดุจุงุท ุนุงู… 1953.
Well, we got the answer on the 28th February '53.
ูˆูƒุงู† ุฐู„ูƒ ุจุณุจุจ ู‚ุงุนุฏุฉุŒ ูˆุงู„ุชูŠ ู‡ูŠ ุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ูŠ ู‚ุงุนุฏุฉ ุฌูŠุฏุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹: ู„ุง ุชูƒู† ู…ุทู„ู‚ุงู‹ ุฃุฐูƒู‰ ุดุฎุต ููŠ ุงู„ุบุฑูุฉุŒ ูˆู„ู… ู†ูƒู† ูƒุฐู„ูƒ.
And it was because of a rule, which, to me, is a very good rule: Never be the brightest person in a room, and we weren't.
ู„ู… ู†ูƒู† ุฃูุถู„ ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุฆูŠูŠู† ููŠ ุงู„ุบุฑูุฉ.
We weren't the best chemists in the room.
ุฏุฎู„ุช ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ูˆุนุฑุถุช ุนู„ูŠู‡ู… ุงู‚ุชุฑุงู†ุงู‹ ูƒู†ุช ู‚ุฏ ู‚ู…ุช ุจู‡ุŒ ูˆูƒุงู† ุฌูŠุฑูŠ ุฏูˆู†ูˆ -- ุนุงู„ู… ูƒูŠู…ูŠุงุก -- ู‚ุงู„ ุจุฃู†ู‡ ุฎุงุทุฆ.
I went in and showed them a pairing I'd done, and Jerry Donohue -- he was a chemist -- he said, it's wrong.
ุญุตู„ุช ุนู„ู‰ ุฐุฑุงุช ุงู„ู‡ูŠุฏุฑูˆุฌูŠู† ููŠ ุงู„ู…ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุฎุงุทุฆ.
You've got -- the hydrogen atoms are in the wrong place.
ูƒู†ุช ู‚ุฏ ูˆุถุนุชู‡ู… ูƒู…ุง ูƒุงู† ูˆุตูู‡ู… ููŠ ุงู„ูƒุชุจ.
I just put them down like they were in the books.
ู‚ุงู„ ู‡ูˆ ุจุฃู†ู‡ู… ููŠ ุงู„ู…ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุฎุงุทุฆ.
He said they were wrong.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ููŠ ุงู„ูŠูˆู… ุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุจุนุฏ ุฃู† ููƒุฑุช: "ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ู‚ุฏ ูŠูƒูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุญู‚."
So the next day, you know, after I thought, "Well, he might be right."
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ู‚ู…ุช ุจุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ุงู„ุฃู…ุงูƒู†ุŒ ูˆุจุนุฏู‡ุง ูˆุฌุฏู†ุง ุงู‚ุชุฑุงู† ุงู„ู‚ูˆุงุนุฏ, ูˆู‚ุงู„ ูุฑุงู†ุณุณ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ููˆุฑ ุจุฃู† ุงู„ุณู„ุงุณู„ ุชุณูŠุฑ ููŠ ุงุชุฌุงู‡ ุซุงุจุช.
So I changed the locations, and then we found the base pairing, and Francis immediately said the chains run in absolute directions.
ูˆูƒู†ุง ู†ุนู„ู… ุจุฃู†ู†ุง ุนู„ู‰ ุญู‚.
And we knew we were right.
ู„ุฐุง ูƒุงู†ุช ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุงู‹ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุญุตู„ ูƒู„ ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ ุณุงุนุชูŠู† ุชู‚ุฑูŠุจุงู‹.
So it was a pretty, you know, it all happened in about two hours.
ู…ู† ู„ุง ุดูŠุก ู„ุดูŠุก.
From nothing to thing.
ูˆูƒู†ุง ู†ุนู„ู… ุจุฃู†ู‡ ุดูŠุก ูƒุจูŠุฑุŒ ู„ุฃู†ู‡ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุฅุฐุง ูˆุถุนุช A ุจู…ุญุงุฐุงุฉ T ูˆ G ุจู…ุญุงุฐุงุฉ CุŒ ุชุญุตู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ู†ุณุฎ.
And we knew it was big because, you know, if you just put A next to T and G next to C, you have a copying mechanism.
ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุดุงู‡ุฏู†ุง ูƒูŠู ุชุญู…ู„ ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ูˆุฑุงุซูŠุฉ.
So we saw how genetic information is carried.
ุฅู†ู‡ ุชุฑุชูŠุจ ุงู„ู‚ูˆุงุนุฏ ุงู„ุฃุฑุจุนุฉ.
It's the order of the four bases.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ุฅู†ู‡ุง ููŠ ุฃุญุณู† ุชู‚ุฏูŠุฑ ู†ูˆุน ู…ุง ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฑู‚ู…ูŠุฉ.
So in a sense, it is a sort of digital-type information.
ูˆูŠุชู… ุงู„ู†ุณุฎ ุงุจุชุฏุงุฆุงู‹ ู…ู† ูุตู„ ุงู„ุฃุดุฑุทุฉ.
And you copy it by going from strand-separating.
ู„ุฐุงุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุงุฐุง ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ุงู„ุฃู…ูˆุฑ ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู†ุญูˆุŒ ู‚ุฏ ุชุตุฏู‚ู‡ ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ุŒ ู„ุฃู†ูƒ ู„ุง ุชู…ู„ูƒ ุฃูŠ ู…ุฎุทุท ุขุฎุฑ.
So, you know, if it didn't work this way, you might as well believe it, because you didn't have any other scheme.
ู„ูƒู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ู„ูŠุณุช ุงู„ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠููƒุฑ ุจู‡ุง ู…ุนุธู… ุงู„ุนู„ู…ุงุก.
But that's not the way most scientists think.
ู…ุนุธู… ุงู„ุนู„ู…ุงุก ุจู„ุฏุงุก ุญู‚ุงู‹.
Most scientists are really rather dull.
ู‚ุงู„ูˆุงุŒ ู„ู† ู†ููƒุฑ ุจู‡ ุฅู„ุง ุจุนุฏ ุฃู† ู†ุนู„ู… ุฃู†ู‡ ุตุญูŠุญ.
They said, we won't think about it until we know it's right.
ู„ูƒู†ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ุญุณู†ุฃู‹ุŒ ุฅู†ู‡ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃู‚ู„ ุตุญูŠุญ ุจู†ุณุจุฉ 95 ุจุงู„ู…ุฆุฉ ุฃูˆ 99 ุจุงู„ู…ุฆุฉ.
But, you know, we thought, well, it's at least 95 percent right or 99 percent right.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ููƒุฑูˆุง ุจู‡. ููŠ ุงู„ุฎู…ุณ ุณู†ูˆุงุช ุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุฉุŒ ูƒุงู† ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุญูˆุงู„ูŠ 5 ู…ุฑุงุฌุน ู„ุนู…ู„ู†ุง ููŠ ู…ุฌู„ุฉ Nature... ู„ุง ุดูŠุก.
So think about it. The next five years, there were essentially something like five references to our work in "Nature" -- none.
ุฅุฐุงู‹ ูƒู†ุง ู‚ุฏ ุชุฑูƒู†ุง ุจู…ูุฑุฏู†ุงุŒ ูˆููŠ ู…ุญุงูˆู„ุฉ ู„ุงู†ุฌุงุฒ ุงู„ู‚ุณู… ุงู„ุฃุฎูŠุฑ ู…ู† ุงู„ุซู„ุงุซูŠุฉ: ูƒูŠู ุชู‚ูˆู….. ู…ุงุฐุง ุชูุนู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ูˆุฑุงุซูŠุฉุŸ
And so we were left by ourselves, and trying to do the last part of the trio: how do you -- what does this genetic information do?
ูƒุงู† ู…ู† ุงู„ูˆุงุถุญ ุฃู†ู‡ุง ู‚ุฏ ู‚ุฏู…ุช ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุงุช ู„ุฌุฒูŠุก ุงู„ RNA ุŒ ูˆุจุนุฏู‡ุง ูƒูŠู ุชู†ุชู‚ู„ ู…ู† ุงู„ RNA ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุจุฑูˆุชูŠู†ุงุชุŸ
It was pretty obvious that it provided the information to an RNA molecule, and then how do you go from RNA to protein?
ูˆู„ุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุณู†ูˆุงุช ูƒู†ุง ูู‚ุท -- ุญุงูˆู„ุช ุฃู† ุฃุฌุฏ ุจู†ูŠุฉ ุงู„ RNA.
For about three years we just -- I tried to solve the structure of RNA.
ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู‚ุฏ ุฃุนุทู‰... ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ู‚ุฏ ุฃุนุทุช ุตูˆุฑ ุฌูŠุฏุฉ ุจุฃุดุนุฉ X.
It didn't yield. It didn't give good x-ray photographs.
ูƒู†ุช ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ ุบูŠุฑ ุณุนูŠุฏุ› ูุชุงุฉ ู„ู… ุชุชุฒูˆุฌู†ูŠ.
I was decidedly unhappy; a girl didn't marry me.
ูƒุงู† ูุนู„ุงู‹ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ูˆู‚ุชุงู‹ ุณูŠุฆุงู‹ ู†ูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ุง.
It was really, you know, sort of a shitty time.