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a33yzc | [Discussion] If you could wake up tomorrow and have one thing changed about your car what would it be? | - Slacker being replaced by Spotify Google Music Apple Music - Integration of Android Auto Apple Carplay. - < 1 week deliveries? - Ability to force the software update? - Thousands more Tesla Certified Body Shops? - Integrated Live Chat Support option on the display with Live 24 7 Troubleshooting? - Auto-Upload of dashcam recording to your network drive Cloud Storage path of choice when conncted to home-wifi? Seems the majority of issues people have are with Delivery Repair Communication Quality Control. | SupaZT | 2018-12-04 19:32:43 | 29 | eb3ftgb | For two driver cars Detects which driver goes in the driver seat and adjusts accordingly 😬. When detects passenger behind driver it disengage the seat exit I have set. Increased wiper power and slider bar adjustment for speed | Jamesthepikapp | 2018-12-04 21:41:02 | 5 | Tesla companion app features |
a33yzc | [Discussion] If you could wake up tomorrow and have one thing changed about your car what would it be? | - Slacker being replaced by Spotify Google Music Apple Music - Integration of Android Auto Apple Carplay. - < 1 week deliveries? - Ability to force the software update? - Thousands more Tesla Certified Body Shops? - Integrated Live Chat Support option on the display with Live 24 7 Troubleshooting? - Auto-Upload of dashcam recording to your network drive Cloud Storage path of choice when conncted to home-wifi? Seems the majority of issues people have are with Delivery Repair Communication Quality Control. | SupaZT | 2018-12-04 19:32:43 | 29 | eb42kok | More sound insulation in general. | Sertisy | 2018-12-05 02:40:45 | 5 | Tesla companion app features |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dywa5rk | The other point to add is that of course shorts do not get to borrow stock for free. The interest they pay on the load eats into any profits made if the stock drops in price or conversely adds to their losses if the stock goes up. The price of Tesla stock can sit around the current value and sooner or later those holding short positions will have to cut their losses. Oh one more thing worst case for a long - lose the money they invested to purchase the stock. Worst case for a short - no limits to their loss. | ThatIsMrDickHead2You | 2018-05-13 05:06:31 | 24 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dyw8dxn | Tesla shorts are doing everything they can to convince the rest of the world that they re smarter than Tesla longs is not exactly a newsworthy epiphany. | SilverlightPony | 2018-05-13 04:22:05 | 17 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dywi944 | Dilution means there are more shares available than outstanding. That is not the case with shorting. I agree that a large sell order can drop a share price but Tesla trades millions of shares daily last trading session had over 4mm shares traded with 3 month averages stating daily trading volume at 7 million. 9 million shorts over a year is a drop in the bucket when buy orders are there to fill the sell offers over a time horizon of one year. Also the bear thesis doesn t state that no one will buy the shares if they were to dilute it is that it affects the fundamentals which the company is analyzed with such as reducing EPS Return on Equity and Net Income due to more outstanding shares. Also new shares are usually floated at a discount otherwise investors can just pay the market value versus the book value of the company (since investors are speculative and look for future earnings growth). So if the company offers the new shares at a discount to generate more money for their operational needs the share price goes down because now new shares have been purchased for a reduced cost which also have new financial data that represents the effects of dilution. (No skin in the game long or short. Just clarifiying some things that I felt were not clear at least to me) | chefxmj | 2018-05-13 10:05:12 | 9 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dyw8pgl | It s amusing to read this after seeing the 5th OMG A TEZLA HIT A TRUCK thread then 3 OMG AN EXECUTIVZ LEFT TEZLA threads. | Skylake1987 | 2018-05-13 04:29:54 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dywcmjz | > That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. The purpose of shorting isn t to lower a security price. It s to reduce price variance. | hitssquad | 2018-05-13 06:20:46 | 6 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dywkcut | > Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Actually I suspect the drop will be fairly minor for Tesla at least. If it goes down to 288 or so then that is probably a good buying opportunity (I m mostly guessing so don t take me as an expert) | tlighta | 2018-05-13 11:28:22 | 6 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dywpznk | > So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. ... and ... next time you see something insanely positive and almost laughably biased... understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. That blade is cutting two ways. ... edit ... I think it s obvious but perhaps I should mention why. Right now everyone who owns a Tesla either waited a long time for it paid a lot of money for it was an early adopter or is some combination of the three.There s an implicit desire for confirmation bias in that decision and a genuine reason to fear any potential insolvency. I own a S100D I m in that boat. And there are long investors. They are not any less invested in Tesla s stock price going up than short s are Tesla s stock price going down. Implication that there s rampant boosterism on only one side of this discussion is wrong and potentially as much the aforementioned psy-ops as any other material. | analyticaljoe | 2018-05-13 13:59:23 | 6 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dywc21r | > For those who don t know You re new here | Jddssc121 | 2018-05-13 06:02:07 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8j1gdb | [Discussion] If you find yourself asking Is there more Tesla-hate lately than normal? ...this may help explain it. | For those who don t know Tesla has one of the largest short positions in the entire stock market. Given it s relatively low market cap this is quite an achievement. There is approximately $12 Billion dollars being bet that Tesla will drop (not including derivatives). At the same time there is $50 Billion dollars (plus the $12 Billion dollars of additional shares on the market from shorting not including derivatives) being bet that it will rise. But this is NOT a new development. Tesla has always been one of the most highly shorted stocks. What has changed is that the shorting is having a smaller and smaller effect on the stock itself. Evidence of this can be seen through snapshots of the stock price & short interest at specific times over the past year. - On 05 15 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $315. - On 07 31 17 approximately 28 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $323 - On 11 15 17 approximately 30 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $311. - On 11 30 17 approximately 31 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $308. - On 04 13 18 approximately 38 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $300. - On 04 30 18 approximately 39 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $294. - On 05 11 18 approximately 40 million shares were shorted. The stock price was $301. See how the stock prices at these snapshots are consistent(ish) but the short interest has increased by 9 million shares over the nearly year-long time period? One of the theories spread by short sellers is that Tesla CAN NOT sell ANY ADDITIONAL shares of stock. They will explain that no one will buy the shares and that it will crash the stock. Well is that true? No. The evidence supports the opposite. Short selling is nothing but borrowing shares from someone who owns them and re-selling them. The practice is essentially an artificial dilution of the stock. It depresses the stock s price by filling in this situation 9 million shares worth of buy orders. Now... Imagine for a moment that you wake up on 05 15 17 with Tesla having 31 million shares shorted and a stock price of $315. If someone out of no where came out and started filling 9 million shares worth of buy orders...and kept selling until all 9 million shares they borrowed to short were sold...what do you think would happen? Nothing good. Nothing short of a total stock collapse. There have been normal days where just 1-2 million shares of volume in the early morning of trading can cause 10% declines in Tesla. BUT WAIT... Here we are on 05 11 2018 the stock price is roughly the same a year later...but the shorted shares has INCREASED by 9 million. You know what that means? Tesla shareholders have been artificially diluted by short sellers to the amount of 9 million shares over the past year yet the price of those shares is unchanged. Tesla shareholders absorbed 9 million shares worth of dilution. It didn t work. More people are buying the stock. They sold 9 million shares to depress the market...to fill those buy orders and lower the price...but its at the same price as before. That means the financial methods of lowering Tesla s stock isn t working. And they are running out of shares to borrow and sell. So now the anti-Tesla campaigns are being waged through other means in order to try to trigger a response. More specially those short sellers will now be attempting to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to anything Tesla related. They ve seen that selling stock isn t working...shareholders just keep buying. They are now trying to convince those shareholders that they ve bought something worth zero. They want to convince people that they ve wasted their money and have no clue what they are investing in. They are doing this because they realize this is a battle over the hearts and minds of the current shareholders. Simply trying to get more people to bet against Tesla isn t having the desired effect and soon they won t be able to bet against Tesla because there won t be any shares left to borrow and sell. So the next time you see something insanely negative and almost laughably biased...understand that you are involved in essentially a psy-ops campaign. Which leads me to this... The shorts can t really leave their short positions. They are stuck. As I just stated these shares that they ve sold all 40 million shares of their artificial dilution are being held by hardcore shareholders. If they attempted to buy 40 million shares on the open market those shares are being held by people who are so battle-tested and nearly immune to the nonsense floating around who have held through so much nonsense that very few will sell. They NEED big drops in Tesla s stock price so they can buy without creating a rising price. They will seek to make ANYTHING a big story. Even if it lowers the stock $30 for just a few days it helps them get out of their bets. An example of this: executive departures... Tesla s stock WILL drop big and fast on Monday due to the media campaign of making every Tesla HR move a national headline. Even though millions of people changed jobs in the world they will do EVERYTHING possible to make you think that 1 guy taking a new job and 1 guy taking a few weeks off is a big deal. Just remember why they are doing it... And for those who say the media isn t on the side of the short sellers...don t be fools. Paying people a couple hundred thousand dollars to find anything remotely negative to ensure that the media is on your side when it comes to a bet that is a couple hundred million billion dollars...they d be foolish and irresponsible if they weren t doing it. *EDIT* - DISCLAIMER: I am long TSLA. But no I m not trying to convince you to buy the stock. The less retail investors there are in TSLA the better. Weak hands should never buy TSLA. DO NOT BUY TSLA if you can t handle watching large sums of your stock s value disappear. | toxicsquared | 2018-05-13 04:05:25 | 256 | dyx2oi5 | If good news keeps happening and the stock does not drop or it goes up won t there be a short squeeze? I don t understand all this very much. I guess what I am curious about is when will the shorts have to give up? Will it be because they have to due to losses or will there come a point (to them) when it s obvious Tesla is not going to fail and they move on to another company ? Or both? | abitkt7raid | 2018-05-13 17:50:17 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
7naqe5 | [Discussion] If you re a current Model X or S owner and you put down $1k for the Model 3 TODAY where are you in the queue to take delivery? | I have a couple of friends who are current owners of S X but haven t put down money for a reservation. If they place an order today would they take delivery on their Model 3 before anyone in the general public (not a current Tesla owner) even though they re placing the pre-order 21 months later? | RossSheingold | 2017-12-31 20:19:06 | 16 | ds0cbwi | Lately it seems like you d be pretty high in the queue. I stood in line as a non-owner and have the same estimate as my owner-father who reserved in July of this year. | ch00f | 2017-12-31 20:26:12 | 11 | Tesla Delivery Woes |
7naqe5 | [Discussion] If you re a current Model X or S owner and you put down $1k for the Model 3 TODAY where are you in the queue to take delivery? | I have a couple of friends who are current owners of S X but haven t put down money for a reservation. If they place an order today would they take delivery on their Model 3 before anyone in the general public (not a current Tesla owner) even though they re placing the pre-order 21 months later? | RossSheingold | 2017-12-31 20:19:06 | 16 | ds0ctg7 | They will be ahead of non-owner line-waiters in the same state. | Teslike | 2017-12-31 20:35:58 | 8 | Tesla Delivery Woes |
7naqe5 | [Discussion] If you re a current Model X or S owner and you put down $1k for the Model 3 TODAY where are you in the queue to take delivery? | I have a couple of friends who are current owners of S X but haven t put down money for a reservation. If they place an order today would they take delivery on their Model 3 before anyone in the general public (not a current Tesla owner) even though they re placing the pre-order 21 months later? | RossSheingold | 2017-12-31 20:19:06 | 16 | ds0d0u5 | Previous owners are placed at top of queue so depending on geography I d bet it would be fairly soon. | WhyDontTheyAMA | 2017-12-31 20:40:02 | 6 | Tesla Delivery Woes |
81az3q | [Discussion] Impact on steel and aluminum tariff to Tesla | Does Tesla get its steel and aluminum supply from domestic or foreign manufacturers? | dogetycoon | 2018-03-02 02:21:00 | 17 | dv2rj2v | These tarriffs will ultimately not stand they might for a few months. The European Union will specificly target the swingstates where Donald trump has to loose and impose imports on those industries. Bush a decade or more ago tried to do something similar but he clenched hit buttcheeks pretty quickly when he found out about the EU s plan. Not only that it s against WTO conventions the US agreed to. You are allowed as a state to impose extra tarrifs under certain situations like Here Ill cit from Wiki > On November 11 2003 the WTO came out against the steel tariffs saying that they had not been imposed during a period of import surge—steel imports had actually dropped a bit during 2001 and 2002—and that the tariffs therefore were a violation of America s WTO tariff-rate commitments. The ruling authorized more than $2 billion in sanctions the largest penalty ever imposed by the WTO against a member state if the United States did not quickly remove the tariffs. Its not according to conventions of WTO. You need a massive surge in import to justify tarrifs. Otherwise it s protectionism. the US will lose this and will ultimately be shooting itself in the foot again. by creating false jobs that will crumble as quickly as they arrose because the backlash of the internation community. > After receiving the verdict Bush declared that he would preserve the tariffs.[5] In retaliation the European Union threatened to counter with tariffs of its own on products ranging from Florida oranges to cars produced in Michigan with each tariff calculated to likewise hurt the President in a key marginal state. The United States backed down and withdrew the tariffs on December 4 | Analpractices | 2018-03-02 16:20:51 | 8 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
81az3q | [Discussion] Impact on steel and aluminum tariff to Tesla | Does Tesla get its steel and aluminum supply from domestic or foreign manufacturers? | dogetycoon | 2018-03-02 02:21:00 | 17 | dv1us03 | It is almost irrelevant. Tariffs will raise prices of both foreign and domestic production. | Kshira | 2018-03-02 02:35:14 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9rxi9r | [Discussion] In the Model 3 it possible to remove the lid of the deep center console right behind the charging stuff? | So somehow when that deep center console (that has the USB ports) behind the chargers had its lid open a piece of paper slid behind the lid into the void and got stuck there I can t take it out as it just keeps ripping little pieces off and now the lid barely closes. Can I somehow take this lid off or disassemble it? Nearest service center is 10 hours away. | canucktesladude | 2018-10-27 20:35:08 | 16 | e8kh8yd | There are videos on YouTube showing how to take the center console apart. Follow one that allows access to that area | izybit | 2018-10-27 21:30:26 | 5 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82fp4h | The tests by IIHS Consumer Reports and EuroNCAP have shown Autopilot to be not perfect but the most technically capable compared to the competition. That said they have expressed concerns about the higher risk of drivers becoming less engaged because of either the system performing really well in the majority of situations (leading to drivers being overconfident in situations that it cannot handle) or the driver attention checking system not being strict enough. So it s important to remember that this is still a Driver **Assist** system and the driver is expected to monitor and take responsibility for safe operation. [IIHS Report](https: www.iihs.org iihs news desktopnews evaluating-autonomy-iihs-examines-driver-assistance-features-in-road-track-tests) (Edit: Ignore the Model S in this test. It s a much older version of AP that no one should be running any more. So look at the Model 3 scores.) [Cucumber Reports](https: www.consumerreports.org autonomous-driving cadillac-tops-tesla-in-automated-systems-ranking ) [EuroNCAP](https: www.euroncap.com en vehicle-safety safety-campaigns 2018-automated-driving-tests ) Edit: Meant Consumer Reports of course but I ll keep the typo LOL. | afishinacloud | 2018-10-19 15:47:36 | 38 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82f4mo | Yes | mechrock | 2018-10-19 15:39:41 | 14 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82g1a7 | [https: www.iihs.org iihs sr statusreport article 53 4 1](https: www.iihs.org iihs sr statusreport article 53 4 1) For 2017 E-Class (and everything else tested above) it wasn t even close. And more importantly it s steadily improving month by month on Teslas for any that are AP2.5 (S & Xs sold in the last year or so and all Model 3s). Often MB will have slightly better stuff on the S-class but it s normally not that big of difference. The two-year old Model S version was still neck & neck at the head of the pack if you exclude the Model 3. & #x200B | huhhowboutthat | 2018-10-19 15:52:20 | 14 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82h7xq | If their systems were as good as Tesla you d see excited youtube videos from all the owners. You don t. | ChessNotCheckers_ | 2018-10-19 16:08:38 | 13 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82j6n8 | I hate knee jerk defending of Tesla at all costs but I see this it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist type stuff all over and I just find it weird. It s one of those things where it s not really true even if it were temporarily kind of true for at least a couple reasons. Like let s say it s the case that autopilot is just that for now and not a ton better than the others. 1) Tesla is actively updating theirs. It will get better as time goes on. So their sameness would be temporary anyway. For the others for the most part you drive off the lot with what you get. Even ignoring that Tesla intends to add whole new features so it s not just lane keeping and adaptive cruise this isn t really apples to apples. 2) Intent matters *especially* with lane keeping. It is not the intent of a lane assist system that the car steers itself. It might be the side effect that it essentially does but that s not the designed purpose the tested use case etc. It s primarily there to correct for occasional oh shits . Tesla on the other hand is intentionally making something where you re supposed to let the car steer with the driver in a supervisory role. That s a not insignificant difference. It has lots of implications of reliability testing etc. (Maybe even legal insurance based implications.) | vita10gy | 2018-10-19 16:35:44 | 12 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82jx3c | Consumer Reports rated the Cadillac system better. Though it seems to be due to its better system of insuring the driver is paying attention. | SodaPopin5ki | 2018-10-19 16:45:50 | 9 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82eyn8 | Yes | frumpy_cat | 2018-10-19 15:37:31 | 6 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9pkxuq | [Discussion] In your opinion is Tesla s autopilot better than those of Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class? | Huge Tesla fan and have had an S85 without autopilot for 4 years and getting ready to buy a new one. With the exception of the recent automatic lane change it seems like Tesla s autopilot is mostly adaptive cruise control and lane assist both of which Audi and Mercedes have (as do BMA and Cadillac and many others too I m sure). Anyone have some recent first-hand anecdotes to share? [https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb](https: www.fleetnews.co.uk cars reviews road-test-mercedes-benz-s-350d-amg-line-lwb) [https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ](https: www.engadget.com 2018 10 19 2019-audi-a8-review ) | Fridtjof61 | 2018-10-19 15:36:23 | 36 | e82m7oc | I was riding in my brother s G wagon or whatever they call the monster Mercedes SUV this summer. The autopilot was like driving with your blind grandma. It disengaged every 30 seconds on the two lane country highway we we re on. | enslaved_robot_boy | 2018-10-19 17:16:57 | 5 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
a1s7ha | [Discussion] Interesting Information from a Leaked Email from Elon | https: imgur.com a qHzV6N1 -Model 3 production hit 1000 cars per day but it is not running at 1000 cars per day all the time currently b c it isn t steady -The paint shop bottleneck has been removed entirely it seems as 1302 cars (Model S Model X and Model 3) were all painted on the same day -The current bottleneck is body production -Still a lot of work needs to be done before the $35 000 Model 3 comes to market -The car is made up of 10 000 unique parts and processes -The current cost of the $35 000 Model 3 is $38 000 making it $3.80 per part process. -Small changes can result in big savings | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-11-30 12:58:41 | 79 | eashbl0 | Nobody else thinks this looks super fake? | NoYoureACatLady | 2018-11-30 15:17:09 | 27 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
a1s7ha | [Discussion] Interesting Information from a Leaked Email from Elon | https: imgur.com a qHzV6N1 -Model 3 production hit 1000 cars per day but it is not running at 1000 cars per day all the time currently b c it isn t steady -The paint shop bottleneck has been removed entirely it seems as 1302 cars (Model S Model X and Model 3) were all painted on the same day -The current bottleneck is body production -Still a lot of work needs to be done before the $35 000 Model 3 comes to market -The car is made up of 10 000 unique parts and processes -The current cost of the $35 000 Model 3 is $38 000 making it $3.80 per part process. -Small changes can result in big savings | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-11-30 12:58:41 | 79 | easixtu | Man I see right through this. It s totally designed for media manipulation. | Frowawayduh1 | 2018-11-30 15:38:55 | 6 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
a1s7ha | [Discussion] Interesting Information from a Leaked Email from Elon | https: imgur.com a qHzV6N1 -Model 3 production hit 1000 cars per day but it is not running at 1000 cars per day all the time currently b c it isn t steady -The paint shop bottleneck has been removed entirely it seems as 1302 cars (Model S Model X and Model 3) were all painted on the same day -The current bottleneck is body production -Still a lot of work needs to be done before the $35 000 Model 3 comes to market -The car is made up of 10 000 unique parts and processes -The current cost of the $35 000 Model 3 is $38 000 making it $3.80 per part process. -Small changes can result in big savings | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-11-30 12:58:41 | 79 | eas8g1f | u 110110 u dieabetic u majesticjg Not sure how this is a question regarding me configuring my car but it seems to get removed for that... | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-11-30 12:59:38 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
a1s7ha | [Discussion] Interesting Information from a Leaked Email from Elon | https: imgur.com a qHzV6N1 -Model 3 production hit 1000 cars per day but it is not running at 1000 cars per day all the time currently b c it isn t steady -The paint shop bottleneck has been removed entirely it seems as 1302 cars (Model S Model X and Model 3) were all painted on the same day -The current bottleneck is body production -Still a lot of work needs to be done before the $35 000 Model 3 comes to market -The car is made up of 10 000 unique parts and processes -The current cost of the $35 000 Model 3 is $38 000 making it $3.80 per part process. -Small changes can result in big savings | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-11-30 12:58:41 | 79 | easj36q | Now if they can squeeze out a healthy margin on the 35k model in a few months what will the margins look like on the MR and LR when this is fully fleshed out? | renegade453 | 2018-11-30 15:40:52 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
a1s7ha | [Discussion] Interesting Information from a Leaked Email from Elon | https: imgur.com a qHzV6N1 -Model 3 production hit 1000 cars per day but it is not running at 1000 cars per day all the time currently b c it isn t steady -The paint shop bottleneck has been removed entirely it seems as 1302 cars (Model S Model X and Model 3) were all painted on the same day -The current bottleneck is body production -Still a lot of work needs to be done before the $35 000 Model 3 comes to market -The car is made up of 10 000 unique parts and processes -The current cost of the $35 000 Model 3 is $38 000 making it $3.80 per part process. -Small changes can result in big savings | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-11-30 12:58:41 | 79 | eat1fqn | Probably very important that the $35K absolute base model-3 is reasonably profitable. Because once business discover that the Total Cost of Ownership is extremely low 35K Version will have incredible demand from Commercial use Applications like Taxi s couriers business leases etc. | gank_me_plz | 2018-11-30 19:24:35 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
a33vpj | [Discussion] Interesting claims made on my Model 3 test drive that your Tesla will one day use autopilot to earn money for you by driving passengers for a fee. Is this really a viable option? | I test drove a model 3 with the performance package in NYC last weekend. First time driving a Tesla... I m absolutely hooked. More than a little frustrated that I have to move out of the city before it s going to be worth purchasing one. While on the test drive my sales guy was young and energetic and made a few comments that I found surprising. First he said that one day your Tesla would conduct rides (like an Uber Lyft Juno etc.) while you weren t using your car. That the Tesla would be able to make money for you. Is this something that has been discussed or published before? Also I asked a few questions about the Tesla ecosystem. My dream would be to have a home with the Tesla Roof and two Powerwalls to run my house and ultimately drive the car on 100% renewable energy. Interestingly he told me the Powerwall would not be a good way of charging the vehicle and that it would not work well due to voltage. Is this right? I watch all of this subreddit talk about their Tesla and am insanely jealous. One day I will join your ranks... | law20001 | 2018-12-04 19:23:36 | 22 | eb37920 | Yes this was part of Elon s Master Plan Part Deux which you can read here: [https: www.tesla.com blog master-plan-part-deux](https: www.tesla.com blog master-plan-part-deux) | 64robots | 2018-12-04 19:54:25 | 18 | Tesla Solar Panel Decision |
a33vpj | [Discussion] Interesting claims made on my Model 3 test drive that your Tesla will one day use autopilot to earn money for you by driving passengers for a fee. Is this really a viable option? | I test drove a model 3 with the performance package in NYC last weekend. First time driving a Tesla... I m absolutely hooked. More than a little frustrated that I have to move out of the city before it s going to be worth purchasing one. While on the test drive my sales guy was young and energetic and made a few comments that I found surprising. First he said that one day your Tesla would conduct rides (like an Uber Lyft Juno etc.) while you weren t using your car. That the Tesla would be able to make money for you. Is this something that has been discussed or published before? Also I asked a few questions about the Tesla ecosystem. My dream would be to have a home with the Tesla Roof and two Powerwalls to run my house and ultimately drive the car on 100% renewable energy. Interestingly he told me the Powerwall would not be a good way of charging the vehicle and that it would not work well due to voltage. Is this right? I watch all of this subreddit talk about their Tesla and am insanely jealous. One day I will join your ranks... | law20001 | 2018-12-04 19:23:36 | 22 | eb38tzu | As mentioned it is part of the master plan. The ridesharing service is referred to as the Tesla Network and you can expect Tesla to take about 30% of the revenue for itself and you keep 70%. It s solid enough of a plan Tesla included an interior camera (on the rear-view mirror holder) to monitor passengers. It s not active now but presumably will be when the Tesla Network goes live whenever that happens. I would guess you d need to purchase Full Self Drive to enable this. | SodaPopin5ki | 2018-12-04 20:14:34 | 16 | Tesla Solar Panel Decision |
a33vpj | [Discussion] Interesting claims made on my Model 3 test drive that your Tesla will one day use autopilot to earn money for you by driving passengers for a fee. Is this really a viable option? | I test drove a model 3 with the performance package in NYC last weekend. First time driving a Tesla... I m absolutely hooked. More than a little frustrated that I have to move out of the city before it s going to be worth purchasing one. While on the test drive my sales guy was young and energetic and made a few comments that I found surprising. First he said that one day your Tesla would conduct rides (like an Uber Lyft Juno etc.) while you weren t using your car. That the Tesla would be able to make money for you. Is this something that has been discussed or published before? Also I asked a few questions about the Tesla ecosystem. My dream would be to have a home with the Tesla Roof and two Powerwalls to run my house and ultimately drive the car on 100% renewable energy. Interestingly he told me the Powerwall would not be a good way of charging the vehicle and that it would not work well due to voltage. Is this right? I watch all of this subreddit talk about their Tesla and am insanely jealous. One day I will join your ranks... | law20001 | 2018-12-04 19:23:36 | 22 | eb36boy | It s so many years away from becoming a possibility that is really isn t too relevant nor should it effect your buying decision in any way. | ABigFalconRocket | 2018-12-04 19:42:48 | 15 | Tesla Solar Panel Decision |
a33vpj | [Discussion] Interesting claims made on my Model 3 test drive that your Tesla will one day use autopilot to earn money for you by driving passengers for a fee. Is this really a viable option? | I test drove a model 3 with the performance package in NYC last weekend. First time driving a Tesla... I m absolutely hooked. More than a little frustrated that I have to move out of the city before it s going to be worth purchasing one. While on the test drive my sales guy was young and energetic and made a few comments that I found surprising. First he said that one day your Tesla would conduct rides (like an Uber Lyft Juno etc.) while you weren t using your car. That the Tesla would be able to make money for you. Is this something that has been discussed or published before? Also I asked a few questions about the Tesla ecosystem. My dream would be to have a home with the Tesla Roof and two Powerwalls to run my house and ultimately drive the car on 100% renewable energy. Interestingly he told me the Powerwall would not be a good way of charging the vehicle and that it would not work well due to voltage. Is this right? I watch all of this subreddit talk about their Tesla and am insanely jealous. One day I will join your ranks... | law20001 | 2018-12-04 19:23:36 | 22 | eb37arz | You *could* in theory charge your vehicle off the Powerwall but the round-trip electricity efficiency is not great (I believe close to 83%). The Powerwall gen 2 has a capacity of ~13.5 kWh the LR Model 3 has a usable capacity of ~75 kWh. If charging your vehicle from empty and assuming you have 83% efficiency you d need 7 Powerwalls. Assuming you don t need full battery charged you might be able to make do with 3 Powerwalls and charge your vehicle as well as run your house off Solar and Battery Storage. Powerwall is 240V HPWC and or Mobile connector can do 240V. Voltage is not the issue it s more trying to fill a swimming pool with a 5 gallon bucket sort of problem. Powerwall has a slow (if any) return on investment. The largest ROI would happen if your electricity provider has a huge discrepancy between purchasing from and supplying electricity to grid. As for the automated carshare program yeah it could happen. But it would require full level 5 autonomy of the vehicle which is still a few years out. | SD_Enginerd | 2018-12-04 19:55:00 | 10 | Tesla Solar Panel Decision |
a33vpj | [Discussion] Interesting claims made on my Model 3 test drive that your Tesla will one day use autopilot to earn money for you by driving passengers for a fee. Is this really a viable option? | I test drove a model 3 with the performance package in NYC last weekend. First time driving a Tesla... I m absolutely hooked. More than a little frustrated that I have to move out of the city before it s going to be worth purchasing one. While on the test drive my sales guy was young and energetic and made a few comments that I found surprising. First he said that one day your Tesla would conduct rides (like an Uber Lyft Juno etc.) while you weren t using your car. That the Tesla would be able to make money for you. Is this something that has been discussed or published before? Also I asked a few questions about the Tesla ecosystem. My dream would be to have a home with the Tesla Roof and two Powerwalls to run my house and ultimately drive the car on 100% renewable energy. Interestingly he told me the Powerwall would not be a good way of charging the vehicle and that it would not work well due to voltage. Is this right? I watch all of this subreddit talk about their Tesla and am insanely jealous. One day I will join your ranks... | law20001 | 2018-12-04 19:23:36 | 22 | eb35gd1 | Also a second thought for the group. It had been a few years since I sat in a Tesla. Previously around 2015 I sat in the Model S but didn t have the opportunity to drive it. The seats leather and interior generally seem MUCH higher quality. Back in 2015 I was driving an E-350 and thought the Mercedes finish was still a lot nicer than Tesla. Since then I think Tesla has come a considerable way in bridging the quality finish gap | law20001 | 2018-12-04 19:31:59 | 5 | Tesla Solar Panel Decision |
7nhg6q | [Discussion] Is AP2 getting better? | Over the last month I think AP2 has been getting better. It holds a more stable position in lane. It has fewer oh shit! moments. When I commute home on the highway I hardly need to touch it. I m a little skeptical of Elon s AP happy talk but the product does feel better than 3-6 months ago. Thoughts? | xmantipper | 2018-01-01 20:40:00 | 34 | ds1xjkx | Much much better in my opinion. When I first received the update that enabled AP2.0 in January February of this year it was very unsafe. I wouldn t have considered the iteration safe to release to consumers. However there has been monumental change since then. I used it on a 2 500 mile road-trip and AP2.0 drove for 95% of the time. It s really good now for highway driving. | rocket_jesus | 2018-01-01 22:24:56 | 12 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
7nhg6q | [Discussion] Is AP2 getting better? | Over the last month I think AP2 has been getting better. It holds a more stable position in lane. It has fewer oh shit! moments. When I commute home on the highway I hardly need to touch it. I m a little skeptical of Elon s AP happy talk but the product does feel better than 3-6 months ago. Thoughts? | xmantipper | 2018-01-01 20:40:00 | 34 | ds1xrnx | It is but after the Christmas update (.50) lane change is aggressive again. | ekimsinnigcm | 2018-01-01 22:29:36 | 11 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
7nhg6q | [Discussion] Is AP2 getting better? | Over the last month I think AP2 has been getting better. It holds a more stable position in lane. It has fewer oh shit! moments. When I commute home on the highway I hardly need to touch it. I m a little skeptical of Elon s AP happy talk but the product does feel better than 3-6 months ago. Thoughts? | xmantipper | 2018-01-01 20:40:00 | 34 | ds2uydm | It s very unpredictable for me - Jekyll and Hyde. I do have a theory though: AP2 cars NNs have become self aware banded together and are secretly mining crypto currencies which is why EAP is dicey every time a new block is mined. The cars actually also self-coded the Santa Easter Egg and auto-wiper beta. Tesla is trying to keep it under wraps and regain control by limiting the LTE bandwidth of the cars which is why our streaming sucks. | ekobres | 2018-01-02 14:07:37 | 6 | Tesla Autopilot Performance Review |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5e8vfn | I vote misleading. They always error on the side of incompetent journalism. | UrbanArcologist | 2018-09-04 20:18:32 | 13 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5e931j | I think Bloomberg in general does not have a consistent standpoint on Tesla. Tom Randall is a huge proponent of Tesla and EV s in general. I find the other writers at Bloomberg to have different standpoints and sometimes very contradicting. | altimas | 2018-09-04 20:21:36 | 9 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5e8v15 | I noticed that too. Seems way off actual projections including their own. They ll hit over 100000 in just the first half of 2019. | tnellysf | 2018-09-04 20:18:22 | 8 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5ean3i | The actual data didnt meet the narrative of their story so they found data that did | dwaynereade | 2018-09-04 20:44:09 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5ej4qc | Did they just compare the EQC NEDC range with the Model X EPA range? Oh yes they did. | racergr | 2018-09-04 22:56:02 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5ebes0 | So much bad reporting research and other issues in general is the cause. Lazy people no interest in finding out real data or doing any research then you have people doing research who use FUD articles as fact and go down the rabbit hole inadvertently. CBS this morning had a piece I just was shown via [MSN Money](https: www.msn.com en-us money companies mercedes-unveils-first-tesla-rival-in-dollar12-billion-attack ar-BBMRBV4) which seemed like a young guy trying to explain things to his senile grandparents one of whom did the entire interview with Musk at the Model 3 production line only a couple of months ago. One old guy saying Well they are going to build a battery factory out in where? Las Vegas? (No you are off by over 450 miles but you re only news people) and the expert didn t correct this at all. The host who interviewed Musk talks about how someone was coming to visit her and asked if she had a electric car charging station at her house? and she wondered if that was going to be a new thing people asked. A more relevant question would be Hey is there an electrical outlet I can use to trickle charge my car while I am there? It shouldn t cost more than $10 total for a long weekend and I m happy to pay you or we can go get coffee in exchange. \*\*EDIT - Just realized it s the same damned article just mirrored on MSN with their crappy CBS morning commentary | NetBrown | 2018-09-04 20:55:24 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9cz9k6 | [Discussion] Is Bloomberg intentionally misleading or is this incompetent journalism? | Couldn t help but notice that the forecast they used to show the growing competition shows an estimated 2018 production forecast of 24 900 Model 3 s while the Bloomberg Model 3 tracker showed total production of 83 575 Model 3 s at the time the other article was published. Simple extrapolation points to Model 3 production exceeding the 2021 forecast of 102 800 units this year. I m hoping that I m missing something obvious or reading their forecast incorrectly. Anyone have any insights? Article with forecast: [https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan](https: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2018-09-04 mercedes-readies-first-tesla-rival-in-12-billion-attack-plan) Model 3 tracker: [https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ](https: www.bloomberg.com graphics 2018-tesla-tracker ) https: i.redd.it 3hf0uhnj4ak11.jpg | evnomics | 2018-09-04 20:12:26 | 22 | e5eizhj | Not intentionally... just lazy. Note that it also states that the I-pace does a top speed of 240 mph (it s supposed to be 124). Also according to the article I am seeing a range of 280 miles for the EQC. Everywhere else I read it was 200 to 240 mile range. | PFC12 | 2018-09-04 22:53:38 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
87im26 | [Discussion] Is Model 3 2018.10.5 at parity with S X 2018.10.4 Autopilot? | Wondering if Model 3 has received the same autopilot update as S X in terms of its performance. | whoindahouse | 2018-03-27 13:58:45 | 43 | dwd7801 | I wish Tesla would give the obsessed owners a button to request firmware update . The current process is a bit random. Wouldn t it better to push the latest firmware update to the geekier crowd first? | inspron2 | 2018-03-27 15:18:20 | 18 | Tesla Software Update Analysis |
87im26 | [Discussion] Is Model 3 2018.10.5 at parity with S X 2018.10.4 Autopilot? | Wondering if Model 3 has received the same autopilot update as S X in terms of its performance. | whoindahouse | 2018-03-27 13:58:45 | 43 | dwd3hkq | I don t have an S X to compare it to but I can compare it to the 2018.4.9 which I had yesterday for my commute. The difference between the 4.9 and 10.5 was big enough to make this morning s commute smoother and more confident. The only thing I think is still the same is how late it starts to brake when it s coming up on cars stopped at a red light. I m still tempted to step on the brake because it doesn t see it early enough to make the stop smoother than 4.9. The steering and changing lanes is smoother and doesn t make too many little adjustment like it did in 4.9 when its on wide lanes. | TesL3x | 2018-03-27 14:18:08 | 8 | Tesla Software Update Analysis |
8wcnkh | [Discussion] Is Model 3 Reservation Really Necessary Anymore? | It seems from some posts here that they re delivering cars to anyone who orders depending on the options they choose vs. have available without regard to reservation date or geographical area (within the US anyway). Those of us that reserved back in 2016 but are waiting for SR or some other trim don t seem to have a reason to keep the reservation anymore. It seems that when the SR comes out we can just order it then. Don t get me wrong this is not a knock on Tesla s delivery process or a gripe about not getting the priority you d expect from being an early reservation holder. I m waiting for SR and I totally get the idea of building high-margin cars first. No complaints. I m just trying to figure out if I need to keep my reservation or just wait for the SR to jump back in line. Am I way off base? | Hammie5150 | 2018-07-05 18:07:59 | 31 | e1ulex8 | Considering people that reserved less than 6 months ago are getting their cars and I who reserved in 2016 am not yet I d say no. I was waiting for the SR battery but seeing that the tax credit will be at 25% at most by the time I can configure I went with the LR and configured once I got the email. | dcdttu | 2018-07-05 19:38:06 | 9 | Tesla Delivery Woes |
8wcnkh | [Discussion] Is Model 3 Reservation Really Necessary Anymore? | It seems from some posts here that they re delivering cars to anyone who orders depending on the options they choose vs. have available without regard to reservation date or geographical area (within the US anyway). Those of us that reserved back in 2016 but are waiting for SR or some other trim don t seem to have a reason to keep the reservation anymore. It seems that when the SR comes out we can just order it then. Don t get me wrong this is not a knock on Tesla s delivery process or a gripe about not getting the priority you d expect from being an early reservation holder. I m waiting for SR and I totally get the idea of building high-margin cars first. No complaints. I m just trying to figure out if I need to keep my reservation or just wait for the SR to jump back in line. Am I way off base? | Hammie5150 | 2018-07-05 18:07:59 | 31 | e1uvy02 | Off base. Here is what is going on. Tesla wants to sell the most expensive model 3 currently. The open up invites in order and those who buy a long range everything they fill the order. This is similar to the model X and S signature editions being sold first . The most expensive and easiest to make as you put in everything but have few alternatives besides color to choose from . So if you want the performance then you probably won t have to wait long because that is the most expensive . But you want standard ? We don t know What the wait is on standard and I don t believe tesla even knew until recently . Which is why they sent out invites to all remaining customers to figure out many wanted the most expensive how many wanted performance AWD and who just wanted standard. If 300k want standard and you cancel and sign up later you will be 300 001. This is the mistake everyone is making about upcoming margins by the way . We don t know what the average selling price of the model 3 will be. Investors want 50k plus when all I ever wanted was a 35k or less. | Pluckyducky01 | 2018-07-05 22:11:27 | 7 | Tesla Delivery Woes |
8jqdc7 | [Discussion] Is Politico s GHG Emissions Estimate Wrong? | I saw this article pop up in my news feed and I decided to run my own numbers to double check. https: www.politico.com agenda story 2018 05 15 are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660 TLDR: An economist argues that charging electric vehicles from the grid is worse for the environment than removing the new fuel-efficient vehicles from the road. Follow-up argument that I m not addressing is that he wants to remove EV incentives immediately because they are a handout for the rich and EV s are bad for the environment. I thought this was an old argument from 10 years ago but this author tried to spin it as our grid is still mostly coal and even accounting for the estimated generating mix in 2030 and accounting for gasoline refining it s still a bad idea to charge EV s I ran the current numbers from the EPA and EIA. This is data calculated for per mile emissions. I also assumed that CO2 emissions is a good estimate of SO2 and NOX emissions (the article looks at combined emissions.) Here are the highlights: * Best case charging in Vermont is basically a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to an average car * Worst case charging in Wyoming is only a 10% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to the most fuel efficient production cars * On average charging an EV from the grid will reduce emissions by 68% over the average gas powered car. * Basically no matter where you charge your car you re saving the environment. Here s my data with some sources not sure the best way to share excel hoping for some suggestions: https: drive.google.com file d 0B4L1E2LVXtpkZFkyTkJ4ZjFOSTV1X3BxbkpxV1hEQmppN3V3 view?usp=sharing | GMBaldassarre | 2018-05-15 23:51:41 | 35 | dz23fke | Classic FUD. A better title would be My analysis of EV s reveals that sulphur content of coal and gas should be regulated like petroleum He states Today s vehicles emit only about 1% of the pollution than they did in the 1960s - yay! for catalytic converters maybe we should scrub power plant exhausts to a similar standard... oh wait his bio says editorial board member of Natural Gas & Electricity - oops next... | Bailliesa | 2018-05-16 04:47:55 | 13 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8jqdc7 | [Discussion] Is Politico s GHG Emissions Estimate Wrong? | I saw this article pop up in my news feed and I decided to run my own numbers to double check. https: www.politico.com agenda story 2018 05 15 are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660 TLDR: An economist argues that charging electric vehicles from the grid is worse for the environment than removing the new fuel-efficient vehicles from the road. Follow-up argument that I m not addressing is that he wants to remove EV incentives immediately because they are a handout for the rich and EV s are bad for the environment. I thought this was an old argument from 10 years ago but this author tried to spin it as our grid is still mostly coal and even accounting for the estimated generating mix in 2030 and accounting for gasoline refining it s still a bad idea to charge EV s I ran the current numbers from the EPA and EIA. This is data calculated for per mile emissions. I also assumed that CO2 emissions is a good estimate of SO2 and NOX emissions (the article looks at combined emissions.) Here are the highlights: * Best case charging in Vermont is basically a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to an average car * Worst case charging in Wyoming is only a 10% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to the most fuel efficient production cars * On average charging an EV from the grid will reduce emissions by 68% over the average gas powered car. * Basically no matter where you charge your car you re saving the environment. Here s my data with some sources not sure the best way to share excel hoping for some suggestions: https: drive.google.com file d 0B4L1E2LVXtpkZFkyTkJ4ZjFOSTV1X3BxbkpxV1hEQmppN3V3 view?usp=sharing | GMBaldassarre | 2018-05-15 23:51:41 | 35 | dz21bfu | Browsing through this article there are tons of errors. It s straight misinformation to build doubt. That s all. Call it what it is Bullshit. | BS_Is_Annoying | 2018-05-16 03:59:43 | 9 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8jqdc7 | [Discussion] Is Politico s GHG Emissions Estimate Wrong? | I saw this article pop up in my news feed and I decided to run my own numbers to double check. https: www.politico.com agenda story 2018 05 15 are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660 TLDR: An economist argues that charging electric vehicles from the grid is worse for the environment than removing the new fuel-efficient vehicles from the road. Follow-up argument that I m not addressing is that he wants to remove EV incentives immediately because they are a handout for the rich and EV s are bad for the environment. I thought this was an old argument from 10 years ago but this author tried to spin it as our grid is still mostly coal and even accounting for the estimated generating mix in 2030 and accounting for gasoline refining it s still a bad idea to charge EV s I ran the current numbers from the EPA and EIA. This is data calculated for per mile emissions. I also assumed that CO2 emissions is a good estimate of SO2 and NOX emissions (the article looks at combined emissions.) Here are the highlights: * Best case charging in Vermont is basically a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to an average car * Worst case charging in Wyoming is only a 10% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to the most fuel efficient production cars * On average charging an EV from the grid will reduce emissions by 68% over the average gas powered car. * Basically no matter where you charge your car you re saving the environment. Here s my data with some sources not sure the best way to share excel hoping for some suggestions: https: drive.google.com file d 0B4L1E2LVXtpkZFkyTkJ4ZjFOSTV1X3BxbkpxV1hEQmppN3V3 view?usp=sharing | GMBaldassarre | 2018-05-15 23:51:41 | 35 | dz21s4z | I did a few years worth of environmental engineering courses at the uni several years ago. My favorite professor then taught a course around life cycle analysis - and if I recall correctly we did a simulation of EV s and determined it was better to have centralized places emitting carbon and other fumes than gas cars polluting everywhere. That didn t even factor in that Electricity generation has the potential to graduate to 100% renewable. | ChromeDome5 | 2018-05-16 04:09:40 | 8 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8jqdc7 | [Discussion] Is Politico s GHG Emissions Estimate Wrong? | I saw this article pop up in my news feed and I decided to run my own numbers to double check. https: www.politico.com agenda story 2018 05 15 are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660 TLDR: An economist argues that charging electric vehicles from the grid is worse for the environment than removing the new fuel-efficient vehicles from the road. Follow-up argument that I m not addressing is that he wants to remove EV incentives immediately because they are a handout for the rich and EV s are bad for the environment. I thought this was an old argument from 10 years ago but this author tried to spin it as our grid is still mostly coal and even accounting for the estimated generating mix in 2030 and accounting for gasoline refining it s still a bad idea to charge EV s I ran the current numbers from the EPA and EIA. This is data calculated for per mile emissions. I also assumed that CO2 emissions is a good estimate of SO2 and NOX emissions (the article looks at combined emissions.) Here are the highlights: * Best case charging in Vermont is basically a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to an average car * Worst case charging in Wyoming is only a 10% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to the most fuel efficient production cars * On average charging an EV from the grid will reduce emissions by 68% over the average gas powered car. * Basically no matter where you charge your car you re saving the environment. Here s my data with some sources not sure the best way to share excel hoping for some suggestions: https: drive.google.com file d 0B4L1E2LVXtpkZFkyTkJ4ZjFOSTV1X3BxbkpxV1hEQmppN3V3 view?usp=sharing | GMBaldassarre | 2018-05-15 23:51:41 | 35 | dz1o6p8 | Keep in mind that a Tesla Model S has about 13 000 extra pounds of CO2 from manufacturing a 85 kWh battery and a Nissan Leaf has about 2 200 extra from manufacturing a 24 kWh battery. It might sound like a lot but if you live in a good area with cleaner energy it doesn t take long to pay off. If you re really curious you should look up and see where the energy comes from for your electricity provider. From what I ve researched online these are the co2 emissions from different sources when creating 1 kWh of electricity (in pounds): Hydro: 0.015 Nuclear: 0.033 Wind: 0.035 Solar PV: 0.108 Geothermal: 0.137 Biomass: 0.141 Non-Biogenic: 0.837 Natural Gas: 1.085 Petroleum: 1.672 Coal: 2.260 I m lucky enough to live in an area where 98% of the energy comes from hydro and nuclear and 1 kWh of electricity is about 0.05 pounds of co2. An EV getting 3.5 miles per kWh here is equivalent in emissions to a gas car getting 1 544 MPG. (This assumes a gallon of gasoline has wheel to well co2 emissions of 23.5 pounds.) If you put solar on your home and your EV gets 3.5 miles per kWh your emissions are equivalent to a gas car getting 761 MPG. In this scenario a Tesla would pay off its debt after about 15 000 miles and officially be cleaner than a gas car getting 25 MPG from then on out. | Acrasia88 | 2018-05-16 00:19:01 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
8jqdc7 | [Discussion] Is Politico s GHG Emissions Estimate Wrong? | I saw this article pop up in my news feed and I decided to run my own numbers to double check. https: www.politico.com agenda story 2018 05 15 are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660 TLDR: An economist argues that charging electric vehicles from the grid is worse for the environment than removing the new fuel-efficient vehicles from the road. Follow-up argument that I m not addressing is that he wants to remove EV incentives immediately because they are a handout for the rich and EV s are bad for the environment. I thought this was an old argument from 10 years ago but this author tried to spin it as our grid is still mostly coal and even accounting for the estimated generating mix in 2030 and accounting for gasoline refining it s still a bad idea to charge EV s I ran the current numbers from the EPA and EIA. This is data calculated for per mile emissions. I also assumed that CO2 emissions is a good estimate of SO2 and NOX emissions (the article looks at combined emissions.) Here are the highlights: * Best case charging in Vermont is basically a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to an average car * Worst case charging in Wyoming is only a 10% reduction in CO2 emissions when compared to the most fuel efficient production cars * On average charging an EV from the grid will reduce emissions by 68% over the average gas powered car. * Basically no matter where you charge your car you re saving the environment. Here s my data with some sources not sure the best way to share excel hoping for some suggestions: https: drive.google.com file d 0B4L1E2LVXtpkZFkyTkJ4ZjFOSTV1X3BxbkpxV1hEQmppN3V3 view?usp=sharing | GMBaldassarre | 2018-05-15 23:51:41 | 35 | dz1rdy8 | The post s title claims to be about the environment but really examines the economic side of tax cuts. But my favorite part is this: > As for greenhouse-gas emissions my analysis shows that electric vehicles will reduce them compared to new internal combustion vehicles. | BraveRock | 2018-05-16 01:10:19 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9jh0ni | [Discussion] Is THIS what Elon was talking about? | We are about to have the most amazing quarter in our history building and delivering more than twice as many cars as we did last quarter. **For a while there will be a lot of fuss and noise in the media. Just ignore them.** Results are what matter and we are creating the most mind-blowing growth in the history of the automotive industry. Even the Ford Model T which held the world record for the fastest growing car in history didn t grow as fast in sales or production as the Model 3. This is an excerpt from Elon s letter the the Tesla Team in early September. I think he probably had a good idea he was under investigation or soon to be sued by the SEC and he tried to comfort reassure his people that everything is going to be ok. I believe in Elon. I believe in Tesla. Sure I wish that a man worth billions would have a designated lawyer to screen all his tweets given how much responsibility and sway he has.... but we are all in uncharted territory. Elon and Tesla are innovating the business world (most certainly the automotive world) with regards to real time information and ideas. There is good and bad in this just like much in life. Growing pains aside I am buying more shares tomorrow because I do not see a future 10 years from now where Tesla doesn t exist. Elon may or may not be at the helm but with products as good as Tesla makes.... that is still ok IMO. I love this community and am Tesla for life! Edit: TSLA up 15% in premarket this morning. Coining the phrase “Ol Musky Drop and Pop.” | LTamurica | 2018-09-27 21:41:42 | 23 | e6rdepo | > I am buying more shares tomorrow because I do not see a future 10 years from now where Tesla doesn t exist !remindme 10 years see how this turned out | run-the-joules | 2018-09-27 21:43:15 | 40 | Elon Musk Tesla Controversy |
7w7ffz | [Discussion] Is Tesla in need of an immediate model S refresh? | Hi all I am a non-owner Model 3 reservation holder. Thr model S is my actual ideal car and more than once have been close to pull the trigger as i am tired of waiting for the 3. Last time it came close was when the rumors of the credit going away began last year. I went to Tesla.com all decides to order my S (and secure my credit) but the delivery estimate was January 2018. Since then the Model S has not made any sense to me anymore. The way I see it there is a $25k difference between the two (considering 75d and LR PUP) with the three coming ahead in several important categories. The S wins in 0-60 having a dashboard having AP and wiper stalks being a hatchback having a power lifgate smart air suspension (+$1K) and being AWD (+$5K). The 3 wins in range charge rate (mile based) premium seating overall interior layout and better performing UI. The only pros that matter to me on the S are the suspension the dual motors and being a hatchback. I would have a hard time convincing myself that is worth $25k (+tax) let alone convincing myself that on top of this I would also be stuck with an inferior interior and shorter range. Of course this all matters little if you do not have a three reservation cause that adds years of waiting. What do you guys think is the S still competitive? Is Tesla secretely delaying model 3 deliveries while working on an S refresh? | manyarg | 2018-02-08 19:32:40 | 12 | dty3rvj | > What do you guys think is the S still competitive? I think the S is still competitive if you consider it a driver-focused large sedan similar to the Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series. It is the gold standard of EVs and the yardstick by which all EVs are measured. The Model 3 is intentionally a less-expensive vehicle and I d expect its materials and performance to reflect that to a point but it s also representative of everything Tesla has learned over the years of making EVs. Cheaper or not it s a more modern vision of the Tesla design. > Is Tesla secretely delaying model 3 deliveries while working on an S refresh? I sincerely doubt it. | majesticjg | 2018-02-08 19:45:03 | 10 | Tesla Model 3 Review |
7w7ffz | [Discussion] Is Tesla in need of an immediate model S refresh? | Hi all I am a non-owner Model 3 reservation holder. Thr model S is my actual ideal car and more than once have been close to pull the trigger as i am tired of waiting for the 3. Last time it came close was when the rumors of the credit going away began last year. I went to Tesla.com all decides to order my S (and secure my credit) but the delivery estimate was January 2018. Since then the Model S has not made any sense to me anymore. The way I see it there is a $25k difference between the two (considering 75d and LR PUP) with the three coming ahead in several important categories. The S wins in 0-60 having a dashboard having AP and wiper stalks being a hatchback having a power lifgate smart air suspension (+$1K) and being AWD (+$5K). The 3 wins in range charge rate (mile based) premium seating overall interior layout and better performing UI. The only pros that matter to me on the S are the suspension the dual motors and being a hatchback. I would have a hard time convincing myself that is worth $25k (+tax) let alone convincing myself that on top of this I would also be stuck with an inferior interior and shorter range. Of course this all matters little if you do not have a three reservation cause that adds years of waiting. What do you guys think is the S still competitive? Is Tesla secretely delaying model 3 deliveries while working on an S refresh? | manyarg | 2018-02-08 19:32:40 | 12 | dty3m8u | I ve had three S owners try my 3. All of them preferred it. Now this doesn t mean anything but the preferences included the screen the firmer handling smaller size and a locking trunk. For the screen all noted that they never took to the vertical split and refreshes were much smoother in the 3. | 1st3inAZ | 2018-02-08 19:42:52 | 5 | Tesla Model 3 Review |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | eblgdgv | Of course there s software power limitation going on. [This TMC poster](https: teslamotorsclub.com tmc threads gofundme-to-dyno-the-awd-non-performance.135191 page-5#post-3236908) dyno ed his AWD non-P and an AWD Performance Model 3 and while there s both higher torque and power on the Performance model the curves show the same general shapes except the power curve of the non-P shows a more clear-cut power limit of about 370 hp being applied across the upper ranges. When both cars are put into Chill mode both are limited to exactly the same power output curves. Sure the motors might even be the same but the theory I ve heard is that the MOSFETs of the inverter are of different materials or differently sourced binned allowing the performance cars to draw more power. That doesn t mean you can simply bypass it to gain more power safely in the same way you can t (or shouldn t) unlock the RPM limiter in an ICE car to rev it like a superbike. To explain why it feels like the pull is greater at higher speeds the power output of an engine is its torque multiplied by its rotational speed of the axis. The torque starts at 100% at zero RPM in electric motors but the power does not. As you increase RPMs the power output increases linearly until a point where power reaches 100% and torque then decreases as RPMs increase. [This article](https: www.pumpsandsystems.com topics pumps motor-horsepower-torque-versus-vfd-frequency) shows the relationship between torque power and speed of a variable frequency drive (basically an AC motor). These graphs match the torque power curves seen in the dyno runs above. To give another example I measured the power output of my AWD non-P [using the drivestate API command](https: tesla-api.timdorr.com vehicle state drivestate) and plotted it vs. speed. In a AWD non-P at 4 mph you re only feeling about 50 kW (67 HP) due to how electric motors work whereas at 45 mph and above you re feeling about 385 HP. At the fastest I could get the API to update (a few times a second) and across a few runs I was able to generate this Power vs. Speed graph which basically mirrors the dyno run power results (minus a few % for drivetrain losses): [https: imgur.com lfPaOqg](https: imgur.com lfPaOqg) There is a second limiting factor in that the traction control will quickly limit initial power delivery for a second or two on slippery surfaces or even on dry pavement if you have softer rubber winter tires (it s that good) but enabling Slip Start under Driving settings mostly corrects this. | Wugz | 2018-12-11 23:13:58 | 45 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | ebldes7 | Yes 100% a software limitation. Looking forward to jailbreaking the car at 120 001 miles and getting my 1.2 seconds of 0-60 :) | lmaccaro | 2018-12-11 22:33:32 | 22 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | eblr8fn | Would love to see the LR RWD uncorked | Jes-C | 2018-12-12 01:49:26 | 16 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | ebldub4 | It s nerfed so it doesn t stress the hardware as much as it does for P3D when doing hard launches which saves them warranty cost. The additional cost of P3D includes insurance for warranty purposes. Take this with a grain of salt. | outie2k | 2018-12-11 22:39:21 | 12 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | ebl9ypk | I m pretty sure the only difference between p and non p AWD models outside of the brakes and shocks is software. There has been no proof that there are other differences. | canikony | 2018-12-11 21:50:40 | 9 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | eblb0sx | If you watch the output meter during hard acceleration you can see that it s being artificially limited until it reaches a certain speed then it goes up to 100%. | 3lfk1ng | 2018-12-11 22:02:54 | 7 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
a5b9jg | [Discussion] Is Tesla intentionally nerfing 0-30mph acceleration for non-Performance Model 3s? | So we all know the biggest advantage of electric motors is that it has access to max torque at 0rpm which is something can t be matched by ICE cars. However in my experience of driving my AWD Model 3 it really feels like the torque is greater after 30mph and you simply don t get the initial bite when you step on the throttle as you would in a P3D or when the car is already at 30mph. It seems like many LR RWD owners also noticed the same claiming the car is quicker after 30mph than from 0mph which is not the characteristics I d have expected from a full electric car. One theory is the traction control is kicking in due to the awful all season tires on the non-P versions the other is Tesla is software limiting power output for various reasons for non-P models especially for the AWD car since on video it s as quick as the P3D after 30-40mph but with the same drivetrain. Any thoughts experiences from other owners here? EDIT: I understand Tesla needs to differentiate between P3D and other models but I d much rather they nerf 30-60 than 0-30 since the initial max torque is what EVs are really good at and my performance ICE already behaves in a way that s optimized for higher end acceleration. | cookingboy | 2018-12-11 21:33:10 | 61 | ebl98hi | Not sure if it s nerfed but accelerating from 0 pushes people in their seats accelerating from 20mph throws people in their seats at least in my AWD3 that is. | tynamic77 | 2018-12-11 21:42:02 | 5 | Electric Performance Car Comparison |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | droi45g | Nissan Leaf? The Renault Zoe is currently the best selling EV in Europe. Plenty of other players are out there Tesla cater to the high end market. | FeTemp | 2017-12-24 00:03:19 | 31 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro86nh | We have no evidence that Tesla can profitably make EVs either. I hope they will. | 0x0badbeef | 2017-12-23 20:21:51 | 28 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro9iwr | I d guess that the answer right now is yes but it s not so straightforward here s a few things to consider: * GM probably isn t making any profit on the Bolt but LG Chem almost certainly is. LG makes the cells the batteries the motor and all the control hardware. GM let slip that the cells cost $140 kWh which seems like they might be getting a decent deal on that part? If GM did it all themselves they might be profitable but the investment wouldn t likely be justified at the current volume. * Tesla has some serious economies of scale. The batteries are the most expensive part of current EVs and they re the largest buyer of cells in the world. They re also the largest manufacturer of battery packs and own the largest battery factory in the world which has been designed from the ground up to just crank out the specific kinds of packs they use. If Tesla had to buy assembled packs from LG or even Panasonic I don t think they d be able to make the Model 3 profitably. * The battery costs implied by the Semi pricing are somewhere less than 1 2 of what GM is paying and around 30% of what experts were estimating last year. That s a couple years away so they might be banking on incremental improvements or even some new breakthrough. But given that they re selling the 3 starting at $35k my guess is that they ve got the things going for them: cheaper denser chemistry and construction in the new cells a good deal with Panasonic and good results from the gigafactory. Ultimately it might make more sense to think of Tesla as a profitable battery company first. They re definitely the market leader in a number of important metrics and given how secretive they re being they could be significantly ahead in some areas. And at this point I don t think anyone could compete with them without trying to compete at the same scale too. | PM_ME_UR_Definitions | 2017-12-23 20:51:00 | 22 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro9d47 | > it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Compliance cars aren t sold nation and worldwide and the “estimate” is from a single unnamed supposed inside source. | WalkingOsteoclast | 2017-12-23 20:47:34 | 21 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro7d8x | To make a petroleum based car you need: An engine which contains many moving parts. A transmission which contains many moving parts. A fuel system capable of filtering and delivering precise quantities of liquid which are floating around most likely as far from the engine as possible. An exhaust and emissions system. A means to produce electricity off of the engine to keep auxiliary equipment running. And a giant radiator to displace the heat that the engine produces. Versus an electric car: Which needs an electric motor inverter battery and batter cooling. There is like 1 moving part in that entire equation and 20 less complex components. As economies of scale ramp up there is no excuse for any vehicle manufacturer to lose money making EV versus ICE. | [deleted] | 2017-12-23 20:03:48 | 20 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro8xqz | I think other car companies are not matching Tesla in two key areas: sales and infrastructure. The Chevy Bolt pretty much convinced me of this. Chevy dealers have never really been that interested in selling EVs because they make most of their money off of maintenance not sales. An EV just wouldn t make them as much money in the long run as a comparable ICE car. Also sales people don t have much of an incentive to learn about a car that would make their employer less money. On the infrastructure front the Superchargers are a bigger deal than is usually acknowledged. Speaking from my own personal position the Supercharger unveiling back in 2013 made me realize that an EV could be my only car. They got speed and range nailed now they had long-range travel addressed. That was it for me and it just became a matter of price. The Chevy Bolt just doesn t have the appeal of the Model 3 due in large part to DC charging being an option and the CCS network being spotty at best. | patrick42h | 2017-12-23 20:38:14 | 16 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro64gv | What makes you think Tesla actually is profitable? My guess is GM s citied 9k probably also includes R& D production facilities and so on. | Vik1ng | 2017-12-23 19:36:06 | 14 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | drpo9a8 | > Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV **profitably?** What?! They are going to lose north of $2 Billion dollars this year. They have never posted a year end profit in company history. | stlstl | 2017-12-24 20:19:54 | 11 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro6ibt | Does the leaf not count? | ericscottf | 2017-12-23 19:44:36 | 10 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro7sj6 | Define profitably. | fossilnews | 2017-12-23 20:13:15 | 10 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | droyt8m | We need to broaden our horizon: China has a number of EV makers that all seem to be doing ok. BYD & Co. might not compete 1:1 with Tesla but they have credible products. China for instance has a market of some 200.000 electric buses this year. That s all much bigger than Tesla or Nissan etc. in the West. | NewAppForReddit | 2017-12-24 07:18:49 | 10 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro66m3 | Short answer: they are reluctant to commit and invest to EVs yet. They need someone to prove that EV actually could work out at first. Also they don t want to give up their legacy superiority on internal combustion engines because that s how they can stand decades. Tesla on the other hand don t have these problems. And that s why they can be so commit to make a better EV and more importantly build the production system that can make EVs affordable AND profitable. | kuangjian2011 | 2017-12-23 19:37:24 | 7 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | dro9qi0 | So far TSLA is at the forefront in the EV space delivering not only viable products (S3X) but also a growing infrastructure (Superchargers Battery Home charger and solar roof too). * Profitably *... uhmmm that s a technical finance definition and.. it might be a while before TSLA (the company) will be profitable but that s the nature of the beast. As far as who else will be capable it s not easy to see. If you see EV as cars then the usual suspects F GM FCAU etc.. will *eventually* become players. If you see EV as a new product category (and this is my opinion) then we need to look at EV as an Disruptive Technology and there are many reasons why incumbent companies **never** make the transition from Status Quo to the new Innovation. For more a great read is The Innovator s Dilemma and its sequel The Innovator s Solution . Eventually there will be viable competitors maybe even 1 or more that will leap over TSLA and after > a decade once the industry will be somewhat mature there will be a handful of company 3-4-5 7 max that will control > 60% of the market. | PM_ME_BOOBPIX | 2017-12-23 20:55:46 | 5 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
7lqgyk | [Discussion] Is Tesla the only company capable of producing a practical mass market EV profitably? | For the past 6 years there has been a near constant stream of articles about Tesla killers . Of course the products always fail to make it to market. In fact the closest competition in terms of practicality and range is probably the Chevy Bolt (238 miles) for $36k but it s estimated that GM loses approximately ~$9k on each sale before incentives and it is widely regarded as a compliance car. Are traditional auto manufacturers just waiting for the EV market to expand before they cannibalize Tesla or are they really not capable of producing at a large enough scale to bring the cost down to something comparable to Tesla s Model 3? | FI_Throwaway_Lucky | 2017-12-23 19:24:14 | 52 | drp2vyq | No they could all do it if they wanted to. Tesla is not doing anything super special in the engineering design supply chain or manufacturing. It s just that the other carmakers don t WANT to make EVs because they make so much money on ICE cars and investing in EVs is expensive with an uncertain return on the first few years of production. | buckus69 | 2017-12-24 10:33:30 | 5 | Tesla Dominance in EV Batteries |
9qpxsu | [Discussion] Is a Super-Cheap Tesla doable? More importantly is it economically viable? | Hey so I ve been looking to start a bit of discussion about a topic I ve been getting more and more interested in lately. I ll try to explain myself as best as I can but english is not my first language so hopefully you ll not be bothered by that! As many of you I m super enthusiast about Tesla in general and the breath of fresh air they are bringing in the automotive sector and even more with the arrival of the TM3 in Europe in the upcoming months. With that though a question comes in my mind: While I will certainly buy a TM3 in the next 3-4 years and so will many others will Tesla in EU sell as good as it does in America? We all know America s way: big roads big cars. Nothing wrong with that. While this is a generalization you can t deny Tesla s models currently available are perfect for this environment: they re big cars (by EU standards) with quite durable batteries and superchargers atleast in the major cities basically everywhere already. Even in smaller cities (20-40k people) the roads are quite large and there s a few charging locations available. Europe as a whole is very different. I ll explain the situation here in northern Italy where I m from but this can extend to many other places. Aside from the biggest cities and capitals most of the roads and places are far smaller than in America. There are no superchargers yet (the nearest I know is something like 100km away if not more) and many houses do not actually have a personal garage to store the car in (and in case of Teslas to charge) leaving it on the side of the streets. This creates in my opinion a certain unfavorable environment for potential owners to buy an electric vehicle. You can t really charge a Tesla like that on the side of the street. Why would I spend more than 40k euros (because let s face it while the specific prices are not yet defined it will be around that amount for the base version) for a car that i have to PLAN my trips around because there is not a charger available nearby while I can spend less and buy a petrol car? Sure the infrastructure will eventually arrive but how many cars will there be to use it? And if not enough cars are bought what is the incentive to build the infrastructure? Now do not think people here can t afford a +40k car. I drive to Modena and back most days and I see some of the most beautiful and expensive cars during the trip most being the cost of an S or more. Do you know how many Tesla s I see? One. A beautiful black X. This is of course a very special area for automotive (many luxury car manifactures are actually nearby) and shouldn t be taken for granted everywhere else. The point that I m trying to make is that while some people CAN buy a Tesla at the moment the majority just can t: half of the cars are 12+ years old and most of the newer half are B sector cars with a cost around 15-20k euros. An average Joe just can t spend more than that if he also needs to buy fuel for 1.5E L around 6dollars for gallons. As for myself I have a 2018 fiesta titanium that is actually suprisingly fuel efficient (20km l) and yet I spend far more than I would like to keep the tank not empty. I can t imagine people with SUVs. Last point and the most important in my opinion is that many people do not actually NEED an Electric vehicle that can run for 400km before needing charging. Aside from workers who travel everyday most people be it young or middle-aged or elder do not NEED the possibilities that a +40k Tesla does offer them. What are they gonna need it for? Go buy groceries? Take the kids to school? Go to work 10km away? Better buy a cheap car and be done with it. And there s nothing wrong with that thinking It s just saving money. So after this long introduction far longer than I would have liked I think that even a TM3 the cheapest and smallest yet is not ideal for the majority of the potential buyers over here. There s just so many cons you need to deal with before enjoying the car. So lately I ve been thinking since majority of people here just need a cheap and easy car for short drives and then be done for the day and forget about it is such a potential new cheap Tesla model viable? Now I don t really know about the technical issues that would need to be addressed (I m studying to hopefully work in this beautiful sector gonna need a few more years though :D ) but I think in my humble opinion that something like this could sell really well in the current EU car options (numbers made up really quickly) : - 200 250km battery - 4.1m * 1 7m * 1 5m (lenght + width + height). 2+3 seats rear trunk smaller since you can also put stuff in the front lol. - Majority of the gimmick features that are very rarely used by the average user removed keep the focus on driving. - Around 20-25k Euro (something like 25-27k USD) As already said these numbers are pretty much thrown here without much data to back them up they re just an average of the sector B cars data sold over here. That being said I believe a car such as this could really sell very well especially in the poorer areas since even if the initial cost is still a bit higher than usual It would come down quite a bit after the owner doesn t need to buy fuel every week at 1.5E L. I don t pretend to know or say that this is truth and everything else is wrong I m just trying to create a hopefully civil and interesting discussion about the possibility of a super economic Tesla! :) | IeZaeL | 2018-10-23 15:18:32 | 14 | e8auhg3 | Buy a leaf. | feurie | 2018-10-23 15:21:49 | 17 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9qpxsu | [Discussion] Is a Super-Cheap Tesla doable? More importantly is it economically viable? | Hey so I ve been looking to start a bit of discussion about a topic I ve been getting more and more interested in lately. I ll try to explain myself as best as I can but english is not my first language so hopefully you ll not be bothered by that! As many of you I m super enthusiast about Tesla in general and the breath of fresh air they are bringing in the automotive sector and even more with the arrival of the TM3 in Europe in the upcoming months. With that though a question comes in my mind: While I will certainly buy a TM3 in the next 3-4 years and so will many others will Tesla in EU sell as good as it does in America? We all know America s way: big roads big cars. Nothing wrong with that. While this is a generalization you can t deny Tesla s models currently available are perfect for this environment: they re big cars (by EU standards) with quite durable batteries and superchargers atleast in the major cities basically everywhere already. Even in smaller cities (20-40k people) the roads are quite large and there s a few charging locations available. Europe as a whole is very different. I ll explain the situation here in northern Italy where I m from but this can extend to many other places. Aside from the biggest cities and capitals most of the roads and places are far smaller than in America. There are no superchargers yet (the nearest I know is something like 100km away if not more) and many houses do not actually have a personal garage to store the car in (and in case of Teslas to charge) leaving it on the side of the streets. This creates in my opinion a certain unfavorable environment for potential owners to buy an electric vehicle. You can t really charge a Tesla like that on the side of the street. Why would I spend more than 40k euros (because let s face it while the specific prices are not yet defined it will be around that amount for the base version) for a car that i have to PLAN my trips around because there is not a charger available nearby while I can spend less and buy a petrol car? Sure the infrastructure will eventually arrive but how many cars will there be to use it? And if not enough cars are bought what is the incentive to build the infrastructure? Now do not think people here can t afford a +40k car. I drive to Modena and back most days and I see some of the most beautiful and expensive cars during the trip most being the cost of an S or more. Do you know how many Tesla s I see? One. A beautiful black X. This is of course a very special area for automotive (many luxury car manifactures are actually nearby) and shouldn t be taken for granted everywhere else. The point that I m trying to make is that while some people CAN buy a Tesla at the moment the majority just can t: half of the cars are 12+ years old and most of the newer half are B sector cars with a cost around 15-20k euros. An average Joe just can t spend more than that if he also needs to buy fuel for 1.5E L around 6dollars for gallons. As for myself I have a 2018 fiesta titanium that is actually suprisingly fuel efficient (20km l) and yet I spend far more than I would like to keep the tank not empty. I can t imagine people with SUVs. Last point and the most important in my opinion is that many people do not actually NEED an Electric vehicle that can run for 400km before needing charging. Aside from workers who travel everyday most people be it young or middle-aged or elder do not NEED the possibilities that a +40k Tesla does offer them. What are they gonna need it for? Go buy groceries? Take the kids to school? Go to work 10km away? Better buy a cheap car and be done with it. And there s nothing wrong with that thinking It s just saving money. So after this long introduction far longer than I would have liked I think that even a TM3 the cheapest and smallest yet is not ideal for the majority of the potential buyers over here. There s just so many cons you need to deal with before enjoying the car. So lately I ve been thinking since majority of people here just need a cheap and easy car for short drives and then be done for the day and forget about it is such a potential new cheap Tesla model viable? Now I don t really know about the technical issues that would need to be addressed (I m studying to hopefully work in this beautiful sector gonna need a few more years though :D ) but I think in my humble opinion that something like this could sell really well in the current EU car options (numbers made up really quickly) : - 200 250km battery - 4.1m * 1 7m * 1 5m (lenght + width + height). 2+3 seats rear trunk smaller since you can also put stuff in the front lol. - Majority of the gimmick features that are very rarely used by the average user removed keep the focus on driving. - Around 20-25k Euro (something like 25-27k USD) As already said these numbers are pretty much thrown here without much data to back them up they re just an average of the sector B cars data sold over here. That being said I believe a car such as this could really sell very well especially in the poorer areas since even if the initial cost is still a bit higher than usual It would come down quite a bit after the owner doesn t need to buy fuel every week at 1.5E L. I don t pretend to know or say that this is truth and everything else is wrong I m just trying to create a hopefully civil and interesting discussion about the possibility of a super economic Tesla! :) | IeZaeL | 2018-10-23 15:18:32 | 14 | e8b26hr | My wife my daughters and I drove around northern Italy and southern France for over a month this last summer and I can understand your concerns about EV s. I didn t see a lot of charging stations I didn t see a lot of EV s (although I saw a BMW i8 near Genoa. I even have a super blurry photo of it) and I understand your concern about the Model 3 not being a small car. But it seems to me that on the one hand you say something most people don t have a garage and there aren t a lot of superchargers and on the other you say the range is longer than people need . I only need to charge my Model 3 once every two weeks. The longer the range the less there is a problem with the charging and garages. | Eloquent_Cantaloupe | 2018-10-23 17:06:06 | 10 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9qpxsu | [Discussion] Is a Super-Cheap Tesla doable? More importantly is it economically viable? | Hey so I ve been looking to start a bit of discussion about a topic I ve been getting more and more interested in lately. I ll try to explain myself as best as I can but english is not my first language so hopefully you ll not be bothered by that! As many of you I m super enthusiast about Tesla in general and the breath of fresh air they are bringing in the automotive sector and even more with the arrival of the TM3 in Europe in the upcoming months. With that though a question comes in my mind: While I will certainly buy a TM3 in the next 3-4 years and so will many others will Tesla in EU sell as good as it does in America? We all know America s way: big roads big cars. Nothing wrong with that. While this is a generalization you can t deny Tesla s models currently available are perfect for this environment: they re big cars (by EU standards) with quite durable batteries and superchargers atleast in the major cities basically everywhere already. Even in smaller cities (20-40k people) the roads are quite large and there s a few charging locations available. Europe as a whole is very different. I ll explain the situation here in northern Italy where I m from but this can extend to many other places. Aside from the biggest cities and capitals most of the roads and places are far smaller than in America. There are no superchargers yet (the nearest I know is something like 100km away if not more) and many houses do not actually have a personal garage to store the car in (and in case of Teslas to charge) leaving it on the side of the streets. This creates in my opinion a certain unfavorable environment for potential owners to buy an electric vehicle. You can t really charge a Tesla like that on the side of the street. Why would I spend more than 40k euros (because let s face it while the specific prices are not yet defined it will be around that amount for the base version) for a car that i have to PLAN my trips around because there is not a charger available nearby while I can spend less and buy a petrol car? Sure the infrastructure will eventually arrive but how many cars will there be to use it? And if not enough cars are bought what is the incentive to build the infrastructure? Now do not think people here can t afford a +40k car. I drive to Modena and back most days and I see some of the most beautiful and expensive cars during the trip most being the cost of an S or more. Do you know how many Tesla s I see? One. A beautiful black X. This is of course a very special area for automotive (many luxury car manifactures are actually nearby) and shouldn t be taken for granted everywhere else. The point that I m trying to make is that while some people CAN buy a Tesla at the moment the majority just can t: half of the cars are 12+ years old and most of the newer half are B sector cars with a cost around 15-20k euros. An average Joe just can t spend more than that if he also needs to buy fuel for 1.5E L around 6dollars for gallons. As for myself I have a 2018 fiesta titanium that is actually suprisingly fuel efficient (20km l) and yet I spend far more than I would like to keep the tank not empty. I can t imagine people with SUVs. Last point and the most important in my opinion is that many people do not actually NEED an Electric vehicle that can run for 400km before needing charging. Aside from workers who travel everyday most people be it young or middle-aged or elder do not NEED the possibilities that a +40k Tesla does offer them. What are they gonna need it for? Go buy groceries? Take the kids to school? Go to work 10km away? Better buy a cheap car and be done with it. And there s nothing wrong with that thinking It s just saving money. So after this long introduction far longer than I would have liked I think that even a TM3 the cheapest and smallest yet is not ideal for the majority of the potential buyers over here. There s just so many cons you need to deal with before enjoying the car. So lately I ve been thinking since majority of people here just need a cheap and easy car for short drives and then be done for the day and forget about it is such a potential new cheap Tesla model viable? Now I don t really know about the technical issues that would need to be addressed (I m studying to hopefully work in this beautiful sector gonna need a few more years though :D ) but I think in my humble opinion that something like this could sell really well in the current EU car options (numbers made up really quickly) : - 200 250km battery - 4.1m * 1 7m * 1 5m (lenght + width + height). 2+3 seats rear trunk smaller since you can also put stuff in the front lol. - Majority of the gimmick features that are very rarely used by the average user removed keep the focus on driving. - Around 20-25k Euro (something like 25-27k USD) As already said these numbers are pretty much thrown here without much data to back them up they re just an average of the sector B cars data sold over here. That being said I believe a car such as this could really sell very well especially in the poorer areas since even if the initial cost is still a bit higher than usual It would come down quite a bit after the owner doesn t need to buy fuel every week at 1.5E L. I don t pretend to know or say that this is truth and everything else is wrong I m just trying to create a hopefully civil and interesting discussion about the possibility of a super economic Tesla! :) | IeZaeL | 2018-10-23 15:18:32 | 14 | e8ayopw | I don t think the car you re describing fits with Tesla s brand identity. Tesla began as a brand selling $100 000+ cars. They have moved down-market but the farther down-market they go the harder it becomes to market themselves as a luxury brand and continue to sell $150 000 Model X s. Most companies either stay up-market (Mercedes BMW Jaguar Aston Martin Porsche etc.) or they have to try to move up-market often by creating a luxury brand name (Toyota -> Lexus Nissan -> Infiniti Hyundai -> Genesis Honda -> Acura.) Remember what happened when VW made a luxury car? It was called the Phaeton and while it was a fine vehicle it ran counter to the brand s identity and almost nobody bought it. Tesla has unbelievable brand traction. Fragmenting that with a spin-off brand would be a mistake and they still need to keep their reputation for techno-luxury. Making a stripped down $25 000 car without the tech or luxury would sacrifice the very things that made the brand powerful in the first place. Also really low-end cars like that often have a very small profit margin and have to try to make it up in volume which isn t what Tesla is great at right now. I m not saying never but certainly no time soon should Tesla go down that road. | majesticjg | 2018-10-23 16:19:58 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9qpxsu | [Discussion] Is a Super-Cheap Tesla doable? More importantly is it economically viable? | Hey so I ve been looking to start a bit of discussion about a topic I ve been getting more and more interested in lately. I ll try to explain myself as best as I can but english is not my first language so hopefully you ll not be bothered by that! As many of you I m super enthusiast about Tesla in general and the breath of fresh air they are bringing in the automotive sector and even more with the arrival of the TM3 in Europe in the upcoming months. With that though a question comes in my mind: While I will certainly buy a TM3 in the next 3-4 years and so will many others will Tesla in EU sell as good as it does in America? We all know America s way: big roads big cars. Nothing wrong with that. While this is a generalization you can t deny Tesla s models currently available are perfect for this environment: they re big cars (by EU standards) with quite durable batteries and superchargers atleast in the major cities basically everywhere already. Even in smaller cities (20-40k people) the roads are quite large and there s a few charging locations available. Europe as a whole is very different. I ll explain the situation here in northern Italy where I m from but this can extend to many other places. Aside from the biggest cities and capitals most of the roads and places are far smaller than in America. There are no superchargers yet (the nearest I know is something like 100km away if not more) and many houses do not actually have a personal garage to store the car in (and in case of Teslas to charge) leaving it on the side of the streets. This creates in my opinion a certain unfavorable environment for potential owners to buy an electric vehicle. You can t really charge a Tesla like that on the side of the street. Why would I spend more than 40k euros (because let s face it while the specific prices are not yet defined it will be around that amount for the base version) for a car that i have to PLAN my trips around because there is not a charger available nearby while I can spend less and buy a petrol car? Sure the infrastructure will eventually arrive but how many cars will there be to use it? And if not enough cars are bought what is the incentive to build the infrastructure? Now do not think people here can t afford a +40k car. I drive to Modena and back most days and I see some of the most beautiful and expensive cars during the trip most being the cost of an S or more. Do you know how many Tesla s I see? One. A beautiful black X. This is of course a very special area for automotive (many luxury car manifactures are actually nearby) and shouldn t be taken for granted everywhere else. The point that I m trying to make is that while some people CAN buy a Tesla at the moment the majority just can t: half of the cars are 12+ years old and most of the newer half are B sector cars with a cost around 15-20k euros. An average Joe just can t spend more than that if he also needs to buy fuel for 1.5E L around 6dollars for gallons. As for myself I have a 2018 fiesta titanium that is actually suprisingly fuel efficient (20km l) and yet I spend far more than I would like to keep the tank not empty. I can t imagine people with SUVs. Last point and the most important in my opinion is that many people do not actually NEED an Electric vehicle that can run for 400km before needing charging. Aside from workers who travel everyday most people be it young or middle-aged or elder do not NEED the possibilities that a +40k Tesla does offer them. What are they gonna need it for? Go buy groceries? Take the kids to school? Go to work 10km away? Better buy a cheap car and be done with it. And there s nothing wrong with that thinking It s just saving money. So after this long introduction far longer than I would have liked I think that even a TM3 the cheapest and smallest yet is not ideal for the majority of the potential buyers over here. There s just so many cons you need to deal with before enjoying the car. So lately I ve been thinking since majority of people here just need a cheap and easy car for short drives and then be done for the day and forget about it is such a potential new cheap Tesla model viable? Now I don t really know about the technical issues that would need to be addressed (I m studying to hopefully work in this beautiful sector gonna need a few more years though :D ) but I think in my humble opinion that something like this could sell really well in the current EU car options (numbers made up really quickly) : - 200 250km battery - 4.1m * 1 7m * 1 5m (lenght + width + height). 2+3 seats rear trunk smaller since you can also put stuff in the front lol. - Majority of the gimmick features that are very rarely used by the average user removed keep the focus on driving. - Around 20-25k Euro (something like 25-27k USD) As already said these numbers are pretty much thrown here without much data to back them up they re just an average of the sector B cars data sold over here. That being said I believe a car such as this could really sell very well especially in the poorer areas since even if the initial cost is still a bit higher than usual It would come down quite a bit after the owner doesn t need to buy fuel every week at 1.5E L. I don t pretend to know or say that this is truth and everything else is wrong I m just trying to create a hopefully civil and interesting discussion about the possibility of a super economic Tesla! :) | IeZaeL | 2018-10-23 15:18:32 | 14 | e8b1v5o | I don t want Tesla to be in a race to the bottom. The brand has a certain level prestige that shouldn t be thrown away. I think that the cheapest car starting in the 35-40k area is ideal. If they go lower than that they need to start a new label. | dinozero | 2018-10-23 17:01:58 | 6 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9qpxsu | [Discussion] Is a Super-Cheap Tesla doable? More importantly is it economically viable? | Hey so I ve been looking to start a bit of discussion about a topic I ve been getting more and more interested in lately. I ll try to explain myself as best as I can but english is not my first language so hopefully you ll not be bothered by that! As many of you I m super enthusiast about Tesla in general and the breath of fresh air they are bringing in the automotive sector and even more with the arrival of the TM3 in Europe in the upcoming months. With that though a question comes in my mind: While I will certainly buy a TM3 in the next 3-4 years and so will many others will Tesla in EU sell as good as it does in America? We all know America s way: big roads big cars. Nothing wrong with that. While this is a generalization you can t deny Tesla s models currently available are perfect for this environment: they re big cars (by EU standards) with quite durable batteries and superchargers atleast in the major cities basically everywhere already. Even in smaller cities (20-40k people) the roads are quite large and there s a few charging locations available. Europe as a whole is very different. I ll explain the situation here in northern Italy where I m from but this can extend to many other places. Aside from the biggest cities and capitals most of the roads and places are far smaller than in America. There are no superchargers yet (the nearest I know is something like 100km away if not more) and many houses do not actually have a personal garage to store the car in (and in case of Teslas to charge) leaving it on the side of the streets. This creates in my opinion a certain unfavorable environment for potential owners to buy an electric vehicle. You can t really charge a Tesla like that on the side of the street. Why would I spend more than 40k euros (because let s face it while the specific prices are not yet defined it will be around that amount for the base version) for a car that i have to PLAN my trips around because there is not a charger available nearby while I can spend less and buy a petrol car? Sure the infrastructure will eventually arrive but how many cars will there be to use it? And if not enough cars are bought what is the incentive to build the infrastructure? Now do not think people here can t afford a +40k car. I drive to Modena and back most days and I see some of the most beautiful and expensive cars during the trip most being the cost of an S or more. Do you know how many Tesla s I see? One. A beautiful black X. This is of course a very special area for automotive (many luxury car manifactures are actually nearby) and shouldn t be taken for granted everywhere else. The point that I m trying to make is that while some people CAN buy a Tesla at the moment the majority just can t: half of the cars are 12+ years old and most of the newer half are B sector cars with a cost around 15-20k euros. An average Joe just can t spend more than that if he also needs to buy fuel for 1.5E L around 6dollars for gallons. As for myself I have a 2018 fiesta titanium that is actually suprisingly fuel efficient (20km l) and yet I spend far more than I would like to keep the tank not empty. I can t imagine people with SUVs. Last point and the most important in my opinion is that many people do not actually NEED an Electric vehicle that can run for 400km before needing charging. Aside from workers who travel everyday most people be it young or middle-aged or elder do not NEED the possibilities that a +40k Tesla does offer them. What are they gonna need it for? Go buy groceries? Take the kids to school? Go to work 10km away? Better buy a cheap car and be done with it. And there s nothing wrong with that thinking It s just saving money. So after this long introduction far longer than I would have liked I think that even a TM3 the cheapest and smallest yet is not ideal for the majority of the potential buyers over here. There s just so many cons you need to deal with before enjoying the car. So lately I ve been thinking since majority of people here just need a cheap and easy car for short drives and then be done for the day and forget about it is such a potential new cheap Tesla model viable? Now I don t really know about the technical issues that would need to be addressed (I m studying to hopefully work in this beautiful sector gonna need a few more years though :D ) but I think in my humble opinion that something like this could sell really well in the current EU car options (numbers made up really quickly) : - 200 250km battery - 4.1m * 1 7m * 1 5m (lenght + width + height). 2+3 seats rear trunk smaller since you can also put stuff in the front lol. - Majority of the gimmick features that are very rarely used by the average user removed keep the focus on driving. - Around 20-25k Euro (something like 25-27k USD) As already said these numbers are pretty much thrown here without much data to back them up they re just an average of the sector B cars data sold over here. That being said I believe a car such as this could really sell very well especially in the poorer areas since even if the initial cost is still a bit higher than usual It would come down quite a bit after the owner doesn t need to buy fuel every week at 1.5E L. I don t pretend to know or say that this is truth and everything else is wrong I m just trying to create a hopefully civil and interesting discussion about the possibility of a super economic Tesla! :) | IeZaeL | 2018-10-23 15:18:32 | 14 | e8axxwh | 1. Tesla Gen 4 cars are likely about four years out target price is $20 000 USD base. They probably won t be as small as you re talking about though. I suspect more like Corolla sized or so? They ll probably also be 300km range minimum because Tesla is a US company that s still their primary market and in the US it s still relatively fringe to have a sub-200 mi vehicle. It s possible they ll have a sub-300km variant at some point but I wouldn t count on it. That s not where they aim. 2. On-street L2 chargers are starting to happen in some urban areas already. These are effective because power for L2 is more cost effectively than the much bigger pipe you need to supply L3 level power. I urge you to work at the local level on getting these installed where you live. 3. Tesla already isn t the only game in town. There are already EVs that kinda hit your target. You seem to be describing a SmartFourTwo electric drive and they re in the $25K range base I think? There will be more to come lots more in Europe. 4. I m not sure what you are including in the concept of gimmick features but something inherent with EVs is that they require more automation thus a more capable computer system already. So there are a lot of gimmicks that can be added for negligible per vehicle costs....and quality gimmicks move vehicles off the sales lot. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_ ¯ & #x200B & #x200B | huhhowboutthat | 2018-10-23 16:09:48 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1pvo8 | I think Model 3 will help solve this. Model 3 has paid supercharging so there will be a small incentive for Tesla to build superchargers for Model 3 s to charge and there will be a small disincentive for Model 3 owners to supercharge unnecessarily. I think it will end up being like gas stations. Sometimes there is a line but most of the time superchargers will sit idle and it won t be a problem to find one. There s just a temporary imbalance between building out the reach of the network to make travel everywhere possible and building out the capacity to make it convenient. Supercharging is just 5 years old. Give it some time. | 0x0badbeef | 2018-01-01 19:51:01 | 21 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1pjc5 | There have been multitudes of discussions on this here. Tesla is clearly working hard to minimize the impact but it is bound to crop up now and then. Things they are doing include: * Increasing the number of superchargers (2017 alone went from 767 to 1126) * Urban Chargers (Slower chargers for those without a home charger to top up without blocking the superchargers) * Ending free supercharging (And leaving it off the Model 3 altogether) * They even have Valets at overloaded superchargers sometimes to keep things moving edit put All Together altogether | Yarblek | 2018-01-01 19:44:24 | 20 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1pnwn | Just did a road trip from the East Coast to Illinois and back. Only saw others teslas at superchargers a small handful of times. Most superchargers were totally empty. | noahio | 2018-01-01 19:46:52 | 14 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1pa7a | nope. | jerjozwik | 2018-01-01 19:39:24 | 13 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds24uy6 | 1. It s only a problem in California and the surrounding areas. EVs barely exist in the rest of the country. We re talking less than 10 000 total owners of all makes models in 40 50 states. 2. Buy a CHAdeMO adapter. Electrify America starts opening stations this year. Every single station will be a minimum of 150 kW or faster than the fastest Supercharger. Every single station will have both CHAdeMO and CCS plugs and multiple chargers per location. The total amount being spent is 8x what Tesla s spent on its entire global Supercharger network (over $1.2 billion). This won t be a problem outside a few Bay Area hotspots really. Long-term fueling an EV will be more like fueling a gas car: charging points will be widespread every car will work with every charging point and you will not need special Tesla fuel stations for your Tesla car. | odd84 | 2018-01-02 00:59:32 | 8 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1s0v8 | Maybe but when 20-30K hit just California it s gonna be hell at every station until the end of 2018 when all the new ones are supposed to be done. | buttakisheadakis | 2018-01-01 20:33:38 | 7 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1s5yx | I only had to wait for a supercharger twice. Both times during holiday shopping season in Edison NJ. Usually that station is no more than 50% full. Tesla is already building a new station a few minutes away. At all other superchargers I m usually the only one. So no I wouldn t be worried unless I lived in California | navinsiri | 2018-01-01 20:36:23 | 5 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds1ttik | I hope so because that means Tesla is selling a ton of cars! But more seriously not concerned long term because selling more cars means they have a *lot* more money to improve the Supercharging infrastructure and the cost of new chargers is basically split subsidized across a larger ownership base of Teslas. In the long term wider adoption of EVs in general leads to more availability of charging not less so you should really be wishing for as many Model 3 s to flood the roads as possible. Of course there are likely to a be a few hotspots (probably in CA? Maybe Norway?) where Tesla can t keep up with charging demand so short term existing owners may see some issues. | zeValkyrie | 2018-01-01 21:08:42 | 5 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
7nh21m | [Discussion] Is anyone else concerned about overcrowding at supercharging stations? | I took delivery of my first Tesla on Dec. 8th (Model S 75D). By far one of the best decisions I ve made. We decided to take the car on our annual road trip from our home in So. Cal. To Phoenix AZ. The drive over during the week was great. We drove back yesterday (New Years Eve) and both supercharging stations we stopped at were completely full with a line of cars waiting to charge (all Models S and X). With the upcoming influx of Model 3 s on the road I am nervous that this might be the norm moving forward. Is anyone else concerned? | Egg-Shen | 2018-01-01 19:36:07 | 64 | ds21ard | If you cant charge at home work you should not be getting an EV (yet). Superchargers and other public charging options are great but they are not a replacement for reliable self charging. This will be a very painful issue over the next few years in larger cities where EV adoption will explode and charger installation will lag behind. | BawdyLotion | 2018-01-01 23:43:39 | 5 | Tesla Model Travel Experiences |
8mnjz4 | [Discussion] Is anyone else experiencing much poorer audio with 2018.18.13? | Since I got the upgrade I feel like the audio quality on my model 3 has gone to shit. Way less bass static and pops in the feed and all around a much worse audio presence in the car. Has anyone else experienced this? | theangryburrito | 2018-05-28 04:57:10 | 15 | dzp1r8i | Strange. Mine is way better. | theloudestlion | 2018-05-28 05:38:15 | 13 | Tesla Model 3 Audio Experience |
8mnjz4 | [Discussion] Is anyone else experiencing much poorer audio with 2018.18.13? | Since I got the upgrade I feel like the audio quality on my model 3 has gone to shit. Way less bass static and pops in the feed and all around a much worse audio presence in the car. Has anyone else experienced this? | theangryburrito | 2018-05-28 04:57:10 | 15 | dzp1s6r | No. Mine s fine on 2018.18.13. Drove on a trip today with four other people listening to a wide variety of music. Check all of your settings. Listen to each of your speakers (fade it around to isolate them to make it easier). In the past if I ever got audio glitches (like music not playing or just pulsing) I d reboot and it fixed it. The only other time I had a particular song in a Slacker playlist that sounded funny and had some pops I suspected it might be corrupted because other songs sounded fine. Deleted it. | jpbeans | 2018-05-28 05:39:00 | 5 | Tesla Model 3 Audio Experience |
9mnh90 | [Discussion] Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? Has there been any more information about it recently? | Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I like the Model 3 and I m having a tough time keeping myself from pulling the trigger and purchasing one but I always wanted a crossover or mini SUV. I guess I ll be waiting a while. Is there any recent news about the Y? Is it still supposed to be unveiled early next year? I seem to recall something about March as a reveal date but it seems like there has been radio silence since then - especially with so much focus on the 3. Has Elon or anyone confirmed any features? Thx very much. | tnitty | 2018-10-09 08:46:55 | 30 | e7g6a1h | It s very unlikely that Tesla will tease the Model Y until demand stabilizes post-EV tax credit sunset. Whenever full details are released that will encourage even more potential Model 3 purchasers to wait until the Y was available. Tesla needs to be in a position to be able to afford that first. | TWANGnBANG | 2018-10-09 13:06:59 | 13 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9mnh90 | [Discussion] Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? Has there been any more information about it recently? | Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I like the Model 3 and I m having a tough time keeping myself from pulling the trigger and purchasing one but I always wanted a crossover or mini SUV. I guess I ll be waiting a while. Is there any recent news about the Y? Is it still supposed to be unveiled early next year? I seem to recall something about March as a reveal date but it seems like there has been radio silence since then - especially with so much focus on the 3. Has Elon or anyone confirmed any features? Thx very much. | tnitty | 2018-10-09 08:46:55 | 30 | e7g1ytu | We re planning on trading our Model 3 for a Y. We will probably wait 6-12 months after production starts in volume so we don t get an early VIN again. | ThaiTum | 2018-10-09 11:35:09 | 8 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9mnh90 | [Discussion] Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? Has there been any more information about it recently? | Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I like the Model 3 and I m having a tough time keeping myself from pulling the trigger and purchasing one but I always wanted a crossover or mini SUV. I guess I ll be waiting a while. Is there any recent news about the Y? Is it still supposed to be unveiled early next year? I seem to recall something about March as a reveal date but it seems like there has been radio silence since then - especially with so much focus on the 3. Has Elon or anyone confirmed any features? Thx very much. | tnitty | 2018-10-09 08:46:55 | 30 | e7g4fb7 | \> Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I think maybe you are the only one :O | scottrobertson | 2018-10-09 12:30:47 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9mnh90 | [Discussion] Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? Has there been any more information about it recently? | Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I like the Model 3 and I m having a tough time keeping myself from pulling the trigger and purchasing one but I always wanted a crossover or mini SUV. I guess I ll be waiting a while. Is there any recent news about the Y? Is it still supposed to be unveiled early next year? I seem to recall something about March as a reveal date but it seems like there has been radio silence since then - especially with so much focus on the 3. Has Elon or anyone confirmed any features? Thx very much. | tnitty | 2018-10-09 08:46:55 | 30 | e7g8zca | No too interested in the Model Y but very interested in the Tesla pickup truck because of the comments about utility high-capacity towing use of power for tools and such and advanced dynamic suspension. For example: \--- from [https: electrek.co 2018 06 27 tesla-pickup-truck-everything-we-know ](https: electrek.co 2018 06 27 tesla-pickup-truck-everything-we-know ) * Dual Motor All-wheel-drive powertrain with dynamic suspension will be standard on the truck. * The truck will have a 240-volt connection for heavy-duty tools and even an air compressor to run air tools. * the second part was a suggestion that Musk liked since the truck will already have a pneumatic system for the air suspension. * ‘300 000 lbs of towing capacity . * That s another tweet where you have to ask yourself ‘is he kidding? but he is most often not. Though I d bet the actual rated capacity is going to be much lower and like the Model X owners will be able to push the truck further. * It will be able to float. * Musk referenced how[ the Model S is able to](https: electrek.co 2016 06 18 tesla-model-s-driving-swimming-flooded-tunnel-video ) but that s up to a certain degree and it s obviously not recommended. * The Tesla Truck will have lockers. * Musk said that ‘it will look like a truck . * I take this as he is not planning an overly different design because it s electric. He mentioned that he likes the design of the old Bronco. & #x200B & #x200B | gc2488 | 2018-10-09 13:53:30 | 7 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9mnh90 | [Discussion] Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? Has there been any more information about it recently? | Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I like the Model 3 and I m having a tough time keeping myself from pulling the trigger and purchasing one but I always wanted a crossover or mini SUV. I guess I ll be waiting a while. Is there any recent news about the Y? Is it still supposed to be unveiled early next year? I seem to recall something about March as a reveal date but it seems like there has been radio silence since then - especially with so much focus on the 3. Has Elon or anyone confirmed any features? Thx very much. | tnitty | 2018-10-09 08:46:55 | 30 | e7fx59y | I m not expecting much info if any before the reveal. The design and features won t have been finalised before then. | afishinacloud | 2018-10-09 08:57:48 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
9mnh90 | [Discussion] Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? Has there been any more information about it recently? | Is anyone else waiting for the Model Y? I like the Model 3 and I m having a tough time keeping myself from pulling the trigger and purchasing one but I always wanted a crossover or mini SUV. I guess I ll be waiting a while. Is there any recent news about the Y? Is it still supposed to be unveiled early next year? I seem to recall something about March as a reveal date but it seems like there has been radio silence since then - especially with so much focus on the 3. Has Elon or anyone confirmed any features? Thx very much. | tnitty | 2018-10-09 08:46:55 | 30 | e7fz2si | I was. Then he said he was making a pickup truck. Now I m waiting for that. | utc4984 | 2018-10-09 10:08:42 | 5 | Miscellaneous Tesla Topic |
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