Unnamed: 0
int64 0
11.3k
| label
stringclasses 20
values | content
stringlengths 6
66.5k
|
|---|---|---|
9,600 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re letter to the president kdw icd ab com kenneth d whitehead writes the dismissal or resignation of lloyd bensen secretary of the treasury in case you haven t sent it yet it s bentsen not bensen brad
|
9,601 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re reasonable civie arms limits in article apr gnv ifas ufl edu jrm gnv ifas ufl edu writes a poster claims he always asks anti gunners what they think would be reasonable personal firepower restrictions ok then caliber not greater than muzzle not greater than ft lbs with any combo of bullet wt vel action single shot rifles and single action revolvers revolvers bearing no more than six rounds and incorporating an anti fanning mechanism to discourage roy rogers wannabes bullets any non explosive variety hps just fine now these specs leave the h r magnum as about the most powerful allowable civie cartridge for handgun or rifle use it would be reasonably effective against home intruders muggers rabid wolves and other such nasties even with the firearm type limitations at the same time this caliber power limit would reduce the ultimate lethality of hits the chances of the average joe encountering a gang of huge individuals all drunk and stoned on pcp and crystal meth and with a bad attitude and all armed and willing to die well it s about zero far less than the chances of getting killed driving your car when will you people realize that our right to keep and bear isn t primarily intended to be for protecting against criminals and beasties in the wild granted it is a big part but we also need military style weapons so we can fight off the government when they come to our door when ten agents come to my door it would be nice to be able to shoot all of them for not upholding the constitution to the best of their ability it will be a lot harder doing that with the puny weapons you listed above please read the federalist papers for all clarification on rkba these documents have cleared up plenty of misnomers that friends of mine have had matt porter mporter cis ohio state edu mporter magnus acs ohio state edu
|
9,602 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re change of name in article cmm thomasp holmenkollen ifi uio no thomasp ifi uio no thomas parsli writes make a new newsgroup called talk politics guns paranoid or talk politics guns they r here to take me away move all postings about waco and burn to guess where stop posting on this newsgroup we are all so glad you re trying to save us from the evil goverment but would you mail this in regular mail to let s say people thomas parsli and everybody who talked about the evil arising in europe was labeled reactionary in the late s after all we could negotiate with hitler and trust him to keep his end of the bargain at least that s what stalin and chamberlin thought i guess they forgot to teach you about your country being overrun by the germans in wwii eh thomas and i m sorry you consider outrage at government excesses to be everytime the israelis conduct a mass operation against a terrorist group that is actively killing their citizens and soldiers the world gets indignant but it s ok for the us to assault it s own citizens who were a religous minority and accused of sexual deviation and hoarding weapons i find it real ironic this happened the same day al gore arrived in poland to recognize the sacrifices made in the warsaw ghetto where the same justifications were raised for an armed assault by black clad troops with armor support james s cochrane when in danger or in doubt run in this space gt a prism gatech edu circles scream and shout for rent
|
9,603 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re change of name in article cmm thomasp holmenkollen ifi uio no thomas parsli thomasp ifi uio no writes make a new newsgroup called talk politics guns paranoid or talk politics guns they r here to take me away move all postings about waco and burn to guess where stop posting on this newsgroup we are all so glad you re trying to save us from the evil goverment but would you mail this in regular mail to let s say people this is not a signature it s merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith and to bring down the evil internet thomas parsli thomasp ifi uio no how about a group called talk that thomas parsli approves clinton administration e mail addresses clintonhq campaign org mcimail provided as a public service by compuserve com compuserve jon edward shum jon mitre org clintonpz aol com america online clinton administration e mail addresses clintonhq campaign org mcimail provided as a public service by compuserve com compuserve jon edward shum jon mitre org clintonpz aol com america online
|
9,604 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews in article apr midway uchicago edu thf midway uchicago edu writes in article qvfik rf usenet ins cwru edu cj cleveland freenet edu john w redelfs writes now that big brother has rubbed out one minority religion in waco who is next the mormons or jews the koreshians rubbed themselves out neither mormons nor jews have a propensity for dousing themselves with kerosene so i m not particularly concerned or shall we blame jim jones on the government also i believe we still remember masada where jews killed themselves rather than being captured by the romans while i do not agree with the davidians i must admire their willingness to die for what they believed which jews have had to do often herman rubin dept of statistics purdue univ west lafayette in phone hrubin snap stat purdue edu internet bitnet purdue pur ee snap stat hrubin uucp
|
9,605 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article apr rti rti org jbs rti rti org writes in article c rpoj ijv news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes well they had over days to come out with their hands up on national tv to get the trial they deserved instead they chose to set fire to their compund hours after the tanks dropped off the tear gas this is about the third person who s parroted the fbi s line about the fires being set six hours after the tear gas was injected suppose you want to explain to us the videotape footage shown on national tv last night in which a tank with the gas injecting tubes is pulling its injection tubes out of the second story of a building as the building begins to belch smoke and then fire i ve already corrected my mistake earlier in this thread i saw a brief news report which led to the above inaccuracy i have since seen detailed summaries that show the tanks returned in the late morning so why didn t the bd s leave when the gas was first introduced much earlier in the morning didn t they care about the children why didn t they release the children weeks ago do tell joe
|
9,606 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article apr rti rti org jbs rti rti org writes in article c rpoj ijv news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes well they had over days to come out with their hands up on national tv to get the trial they deserved instead they chose to set fire to their compund hours after the tanks dropped off the tear gas this is about the third person who s parroted the fbi s line about the fires being set six hours after the tear gas was injected suppose you want to explain to us the videotape footage shown on national tv last night in which a tank with the gas injecting tubes is pulling its injection tubes out of the second story of a building as the building begins to belch smoke and then fire do tell joe not to mention that the story was rewritten today those two bd s who admitted to starting the fire forget em they don t exist anyone today a few saw someone starting a fire and our aerial surveillance showed them starting fires at this morning s press conference tomorrow even this excuse may evaporate a reporter pointed out that a bd being brought to arraingement shouted that tanks knocking over lanterns started the fire curiouser and curiouser wayne j warf wwarf ucs indiana edu i speak for myself only clinton gore cia fbi dea assassinate bomb wod bor atf irs resist nsa christian god satan apocalypse zog nazi socialist communist explosive fundamentalist revolution nsc federal reserve constitution gold fema
|
9,607 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re my gun is like my american express card in article u uicvm uic edu jason kratz it is kind of funny though how you were the only one who picked up the part about my sister being a social worker and keeping me up to date on the gang thing everyone else seemed to just skim by that part jason i guess that just means everyone else was mistaken jim jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,608 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re some more about gun control in article c mzyk e g ulowell ulowell edu jrutledg cs ulowell edu john lawrence rutledge writes no not unconditional but shall not be infringed infringed is defined as to break or ignore the terms of or obligations an oath an agreement law or the like to disreguard violate to go beyond the boundaries or limits tresspass encroach this definition implies the following of some form of existing agreement laws and agreements are made in advance the rights guaranteed by the constitution were considered to be pre existing the only agreement was that they exist therefore no law grants such rights laws can only guarantee protect or infringe such rights websters third new international dictionary of the english language unabridged infringe a to break down destroy b defeat frustrate c confute refute d impair weaken to commit a breach of neglect to fulfill or obey violate transgress vi encroach trespass infringement the act of infringing breach violation nonfulfillment an encroachment or trespass on a right or priveledge trespass now by what stretch of the imagination do you get your ideas about infringement of rights al standard disclaimer
|
9,609 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews the two situations are hardly analogous unless you wish to make the dubious claim that the us legal system would provide equivalent treatment to bd children that the romans did for those of conquered rebels actually all the analogy calls for the the branch davidian feeling their treatment would be along these lines after a military assualt instead of a peacefull effort to serve a warrant and weeks os siege such a feeling might not be completely irrational actually if i were one of the survivors and wanted to institute a civil rights violation lawsuit against the treasury dept i would claim that the batf fbi itself was to blame for any mass hysteria insanity without due process the siegers shone lights laser beams multi colored spotlights all the while playing loudly amplified music consisting of everything from tibetan chant to heavy metal and coupled with the fear the poor nutrition the rampant paranoia i d say it was very likely those poor nuts were made even nuttier after all isn t sleep deprivation sensory overload etc part of the new age method of torture
|
9,610 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes i will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors but here goes monday april edt murder most foul this is murder atf murderers butchers this is genocidal mass slaughter of innocent people including children well chalk one up for driving away sympathies by looking like a paranoid lunatic i have predicted this from the start but god it sickens me to see it happen i had hoped i was wrong i had hoped that there was still some shred of the america i grew up with and loved left alive i was wrong the nazis have won i repeat as of this time there are no survivors last i heard there were nine apparently as of this point they ve found no bodies except those killed during the initial assault a couple of months ago be cute if koresh hit the trail maybe he was bodily assumed into heaven wouldn t that just make ag reno s day david veal university of tennessee division of continuing education pa utkvm utk edu i still remember the way you laughed when you pushed me down the elevator shaft sometimes i get to thinking you don t love me anymore weird al yankovic
|
9,611 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi revenge does anyone have any idea about the size of waco i m just curious because if it were a small town that may have something to do with it possibly not it sure didn t take it very long to burn down though i was watching abc and it only took like a little over minutes to burn down waco is a city of about people the population temporarily raised to about people when all the feds and state police officers arrived i tell you what i stayed in a hotel room about miles from the bd compound around weeks ago i have never felt more paranoid in my whole life there were at least state police in the hotel the claim we had the water turned off so the fire engines had to bring their own doesn t hold up if they had cut off the water they surely could have turned it back on just as quickly they just didn t want to there were some scores to settle message to anybody else is very clear don t fuck with us we will do you in not that i am one to believe that everything that the government tells us is true but if that was the message they wanted to send why did they wait days i think the message would be better sent by charging in there right away not waiting for days and pounding them with sound etc a bunch of dead bd members are not going to be so able to tell their side of the story so now all we have is the story according to the batf and fbi also mr care about the rights of people clinton or his administration approved this action fbi said washington had approved it they fbi said the gas masks used by the bds have a finite life and were close to running out why couldn t they have just waited well there are people supposedly alive they can tell their story as far as bill clinton is concerned don t you think he has more pressing matters to attend to besides some small group of people in texas how about bosnia now there s a problem why couldn t they have waited they waited too long as it is something should have been done earlier they gov is trying to say it was a mass suicide in the past they had expressed this was a real possibility but now they decided it wasn t a possibility so they could go on with the raid apparantly what they feel korash was or was not capable of or going to do was driven by what was most convenient at the time now this means that the public and media will forget about all this having become weary of it this has already happened for many people there will be no investigation independent or otherwise or a whitewash very much a possibility there will be no unsealing of the warrant and related documents what anybody will know about this incident will be the batf version with the way our government is i wouldn t doubt it the batf has just been given carte blanche for further abuses with the effective support and approval of the administration clinton said on the news that he knew about what was happening but that it was all in the hands of the fbi that is if you choose to believe the media there will be more abuses with no concern of administration censure the precident has been established that the feds can kill in quantity to achieve their aims especially if the target is excercising their rights under the second amendment and the rest of the bill of rights and is a government declared un nice fellow if they had rocket launchers and such as the press and gov claims why shouldn t they have done something what possible use would a religious cult have for a rocket launcher also is child abuse covered by the bill of rights lls and clams will be pleased dung tsow ping sp will be pleased saddam hussein sp will be pleased idi amin would be pleased stalin would be pleased even hitler would be pleased any self respecting despot would nod and say well done bill clinton well then there are probably a lot of self respecting despots in the us cause i m sure they feel the same way god bless america land of the free past tense well maybe i am overreacting but i see on the tv as i am typing where maybe maybe not there are a lot of questions that should be raised about this incident the problem is who will do it and be heard govt spoksewoman the new attorney general known to be almost rabid about private ownership of guns wants to ban assault guns and just about everything else is saying the fbi had amazing restraint then falls back into the official goverenment line about how the bd were guity of child abuse and were into it in an on going basis and so on note that according to the liberal elite giving a child a spanking is regarded as child abuse seriously if it gets known the state can take your child away from you if you spank your kid she also is saying which state is that the federal government or an individual state government clinton personally approved this operation she told him it was appropriate and so on and he said ok do it somehow i am not surprised the people must know who is boss who is in charge and it is obviouly no longer the people it seems to me that the people haven t been in charge for a long time if they really were i don t think the government would be doing as many things as it has in the past and i maintain the appropriate response as far as this raid by batf is concerned regarding child abuse is so what batf are not our child protective services police yet after all the bd had been tried on that charge before and found not guilty the gov t people have pretty much gone silent on the terrible illegal guns bd supposedly has and stress the continued child abuse apparantly to make it a seem as sort of a rescue operation figuring everyone hates child abusers and anything is ok to use against them occasional references to ammunition possesed by the bds and so on is irrelevant it is not illegal to have ammunition yet true but is it illegal to have a rocket launcher am i having a vain hope that an honest investigation will occur on this thing or will it simply be whitewashed under the rug and business as usual will continue to be the order of the day in the new order who will be given the official title of thought police i wonder and if clinton and friends have their way highly likely at this point the new order government will also have all the guns so what if is going to be ten years late i think we are going to discover that we will be paying dearly for putting this fellow in office for decades to come even some die hard supporters are having serious doubts about their savior shit if people dont get what they want right away there is an instant problem clinton has only been in office for a few months give him a chance to get something done the guy had a lot of shit thrown in his lap in the beginning give him a chance to work on things a little as they say rome wasn t built in a day yes i am upset i see no good as far as civil individual rights to come of any of his proposals decisions for the last month or so we have really been had or bill of rights is now nothing but a quaint curiosity i highly doubt that it is that bad yet how about the rodney king trial the two people who were most responsible got the axe how bad the axe falls tho is yet to be seen anybody for impeachment nope i would prefer to give bill a little more than four or five months to solve the nations problems pat rwing uucp without prejudice ucc pat myrto seattle wa if all else fails try uunet pilchuck rwing pat wisdom only two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity and i am not sure about the former albert einstien jason u uicvm cc uic edu
|
9,612 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article r v c i j menudo uh edu hadcrjam admin uh edu miller jimmy a writes in r poqinnc k clem handheld com jmd cube handheld com writes in article c rdaw s dartvax dartmouth edu zed dartmouth edu ted schuerzinger writes well it s now tuesday morning where are those two arsons now i said yesterday they would vanish and there has been no further mention of them just the desired impression is left according to kikk radio in houston all nine survivors are either in hos pitals or in jails inlucding the two who allegedly helped start the firess in the fbi briefing no mention was made of having the fire starters in custody why could no one else even talk to them why could koresh s grandmother not talk to him or even send him a taped message why the total isolation well it wasn t total isolation after the lawyer snuck in the first time they the fbi etc let him go back inside several times including i think the day before the final assualt why not his mother why not the media semper fi jammer jim miller texas a m university and i don t speak for uh which is too bad because they could use the help become one with the student billing system be the student billing system power finds its way to those who take a stand stand up ordinary man rik emmet gil moore mike levine triumph jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,613 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article apr mcs kent edu mhamilto nimitz mcs kent edu the lawnmowerman writes also someone should have told david and his followers that if they can t the heat then they should stay out of the kitchen pun intended this tops the cold hearted bastard list unbelievable had this countries morals sunk this low that the death of innocent people is so callously viewed flame off aaah daniaalson yah wanna fight fight me matthew r hamilton mhamilto mcs kent edu a k a cs physics major h ksuvxb kent edu the lawnmowerman kent state university h ksuvxb kent edu look here for future advice quotes sayings jibberish philosohy jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,614 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article apr news uit no paale stud cs uit no paal ellingsen writes in article r qsrinnc clem handheld com jim de arras writes mr roby you are a government sucking heartless bastard humans died yesterday humans who would not have died if the fbi had not taken the actions they did that is the undeniable truth the question is for how long even if the fbi had done nothing i guess the bds would have committed suicide but maybe not until hunger and thirst gave them the choice between sucide or surrender the bds was warned in beforehand about the fbi action they had the chance to surrender and get a fair trial no matter who started the fire the bds were responsible for peole dying no one else this is of course your opinion i differ greatly there can be no doubt the fbi at least shares in the blame paal ellingsen borgensvingen tlf paale stud cs uit no kvaloeysletta data dobbelt arbeid til alle jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,615 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re cnn for sale i will add my voice to the hopefully growing multitudes i hereby pledge towards the purchase of cnn under the same conditions as already described i will also post this idea on the other nets i can access rime and libernet we may have to organize this ourselves so i am looking for help frank ney n zhg emt a lpva nra ila goa ccrtkba m o u s e
|
9,616 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors nut case panics jumps the gun on the net before getting facts straight
|
9,617 |
talk.politics.guns
|
blast them next time what happened in waco is not the fault of the batf if they would of had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports when they meet hostile fire they should be able to use more force instead of retreating to a stand off if you are going to do a job then do it right the batf is there to protect us and they must have the proper equipment and people to do the job with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later
|
9,618 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes cnn is reporting as i write this that the atf has ignited all the buildings of the branch dividian ranch near waco tx the lies from atf say holes were made in the walls and non lethal tear gas pumped in a few minutes after this started the whole thing went up all buildings are aflame no one has escaped i think it obvious that the atf used armored flame thrower vehicles to pump in unlit napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it well actually the davidians koreshians started the fire themselves the last i heard around est eight people ran out into the feilds surrounding the compound all were captured and two admitted to setting the fire i don t buy your napalm theory at all although it would have made a great commercial for my sig why the hell would they have a wood stove burning on such a warm day flame throwers use liquid petroleum napalm is more of a gel now to further dispute your theory the diluted cs gas was inserted around if i understood correctly the place didn t start burning until around or this is murder atf murderers butchers this is genocidal mass slaughter of innocent people including children i have predicted this from the start but god it sickens me to see it happen i had hoped i was wrong i had hoped that there was still some shred of the america i grew up with and loved left alive i was wrong the nazis have won calm down kid vernon koresh s real name said himself that he would not leave that compound alive the inhabitants thereof had accepted the fact that they may very well have to kill themselves before it was all over i repeat as of this time there are no survivors there are at least eight survivors a caller on rush limbaugh today suggested that the rest may even be hiding in underground bunkers that s not such a wild idea considering their weaponry and resolve god help us all please crosspost don t let them get away with the slaughter of the children w k gorman an american in tears sheesh get over it i haven t heard read such ranting since the hindenberg burned this should have ended days ago i m glad my tax dollars have finally stopped working to pay a bunch of guys to stand around and give press conferences now they can get back to more important things like catching cigarrette smugglers troy napalm sticks to kids
|
9,619 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re clinton joins list of genocidal socialist leaders in article r ug d btr btr com michaelh public btr com michael hahn michaelh btr com writes pol pot s killed i ve read estimates that pol pot killed somewhere in the neighborhood of million drew betz gozer idbsu edu brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho when you outlaw rights only outlaws will have rights spook fodder fema nsa clinton gore insurrection nsc semtex neptunium terrorist cia mi mi kgb deuterium
|
9,620 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time in article r l dv usenet ins cwru edu oldham ces cwru edu daniel oldham writes what happened in waco is not the fault of the batf if they would of had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports when they meet hostile fire they should be able to use more force instead of retreating to a stand off if you are going to do a job then do it right the batf is there to protect us and they must have the proper equipment and people to do the job with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later well it s said that people get the government they deserve don t worry you ll get yours you ll sleep much better when everyone with thoughts not on the government approved list is rounded up and executed julie disclaimer all opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
|
9,621 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re guns in backcountry no thanks in article netnews upenn edu egedi ahwenasa cis upenn edu dania m egedi writes in article apr csd newshost stanford edu andy sail stanford edu andy freeman writes in article apr midway uchicago edu pkgeragh gsbphd uchicago edu kevin geraghty writes wrong about the whole guns for protection mindset it ignores the why if you re not a threat you re not affected at all aha that s the part that makes me nervous too who gets to decide if i am a threat based on appearance would someone feel more threatened actions determine whether someone presents a threat and i don t carry a gun so much for people cause i tend to fade if there are any about but due to several encounters with formerly domestic dogs these critters ain t scared of folks and can get aggressive on staying at and saw someone sitting there cleaning his gun softly i backed away and hiked another miles to get out of there i ll freely admit it here i m not afraid of guns i m afraid of people that bring them into the backcountry i d count that as a fear of guns somebody having the sense to keep their weapons maintained isn t as likely to present a threat the army taught me to clean any weapons daily since they usually need it regardless of whether they ve been used you d be amazed how sweaty a holster can get or how much trail dust will get in it and i guess you d be scared of me and my former explorer post seems the advisors were national guard special forces grunts and considered it heresy to be out in the woods without a weapon course usually you wouldn t notice em they tended to avoid public scrutiny of course that may be the way to solve the solitude problem just carry a gun and display it prominently and one probably won t see most of the other hikers out there who will be hiding in the woods dania my mm goes in a hip holster mixed in with magazine pouches hold lotsa stuff in them canteens knives compasses and such not so easy to notice in the off chance i decide to be visible i prefer not to be since walking quietly away from active areas increases the number of non human type critters i see james james s cochrane when in danger or in doubt run in this space gt a prism gatech edu circles scream and shout for rent
|
9,622 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time deleted because it sounds twisted with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours flame thrower on well i don t want my tax dollars going to that kind of philosophy maybe if the good folks you are talking about are people like you than i might be inclined to accept it what does the batf do anyway why don t we have a bureau for militant paranoid freedom killers like yourself people like you are more dangerous than alcohol tobacco and firearms with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later maybe we should just have nuked the whole city i mean what s a good souls anyway get real you sound like a racist i guess life isn t so precious to you do you realize that there were children killed they will never get to fall in love they won t see another sunrise no prom no first date no football baseball no nothing why doesn t some people think first before they let everyone know how narrow they are flame thrower off
|
9,623 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article c rynw iz news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes and i suppose the fbi also prevented them from coming out with their hands up while national tv cameras watch watch from where two miles away far enough away that whatever really happenned must be explained through the vengeful filter of a humiliated agency that said quote enough is enough scenario that is simplest and most plausible i do not generally believe in conspiracy theories that involve complicated and unlikely scenarios the fbi sent letters to martin luther king s wife insinuating that mlk was having an affair again please tell us exactly how much you trust our supposedly benevolent government the batf is by no means devoid of fault in the handling of this affair but to suggest that they may have intentionally started the fire is ludicrous i suspect that there were plenty of camerapeople willing to risk small arms fire to get some good footage these people were told to get the hell out of camera range why drew betz gozer idbsu edu brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho when you outlaw rights only outlaws will have rights spook fodder fema nsa clinton gore insurrection nsc semtex neptunium terrorist cia mi mi kgb deuterium
|
9,624 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes i will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors but here goes monday april edt murder most foul cnn is reporting as i write this that the atf has ignited all i watched the cnn report and i never heard them report that the atf started the fire they did speculate that the type of cs gas might have accidentaly started the fire the buildings of the branch dividian ranch near waco tx the lies from atf say holes were made in the walls and non lethal tear gas pumped in a few minutes after this started the whole thing went up from my understanding of the cnn report it was hours after they started all buildings are aflame no one has escaped i think it obvious that the atf used armored flame thrower vehicles to pump in unlit the track vehicle that i saw in the vicinity of the building where fire was first noticed looked more like an armored recovery vehicle the type used to tow tanks of battle fields and not an armored flame thrower vehicle napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas it seems to me that it would be very poor planing to hope for a wood stove to ignite the napalm when the stove would probably not be in use and i doubt that it would have taken hours to ignite it this is murder atf murderers butchers this is genocidal mass slaughter of innocent people including children i have predicted this from the start but god it sickens me to see it happen i had hoped i was wrong i had hoped that there was still some shred of the america i grew up with and loved left alive i was wrong the nazis have won right clinton is in office sorry i couldn t resist please no flames i repeat as of this time there are no survivors god help us all please crosspost don t let them get away with the slaughter of the children w k gorman an american in tears in short mr gorman i am assuming mr as a title because i don t think a woman would be stupid enough to make this post i don t know what episode of cnn you were watching but it obviously was not the same one that i was watching or your tears seamed to have blured your hearing along with your eye sight please excuse any mispelled words as i am a product of the arkansas education system which slick willie of the double bubba ticket has so greately improved during his tenour as governer of my great state taking it from th in the nation in and allowing it to drop to st how i don t know and bringing it to st and back to either th or th in sorry i can t rember the source of these numbers but they can be found michael f rhein
|
9,625 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re so much for infinite patience in article apr jupiter sun csd unb ca j jupiter sun csd unb ca fuller m writes so much for infinite patience i find it hard to swallow that prolonged exposure to massive amounts of and they said that the bomb dropped on move wouldn t start a fire either the real kicker though is the stated justification for the government s sudden loss of patience they wouldn t be able to rotate their teams this outcome could be foreseen a mile or two away but reno didn t even malcolm fuller surveying engineering university of new brunswick the really good part at this point we re not negotiating fbi spokesman bob ricks said at a news briefing about a half hour before the fire began we re saying come out come out with your hands up this matter is over criminal so much for billary saying we won t force the issue anybody have the wh information number figure ol bill could use a lesson from the rotc he scorned you are responsible for all that your unit troops do or fail to do want to ask him how he enjoys being responsible for violating the constitutional rights of a group resulting in the deaths of over a hundred of them plus four federal agents james james s cochrane when in danger or in doubt run in this space gt a prism gatech edu circles scream and shout for rent
|
9,626 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews in article apr midway uchicago edu thf midway uchicago edu writes in article qvfik rf usenet ins cwru edu cj cleveland freenet edu john w redelfs writes now that big brother has rubbed out one minority religion in waco who is next the mormons or jews the koreshians rubbed themselves out neither mormons nor jews have a propensity for dousing themselves with kerosene so i m not particularly concerned or shall we blame jim jones on the government also be thankful that the batf standoff at least got some of the kids out before the cult committed mass suicide dont you believe that the branch davidians committed suicide for one minute i would not put it past the fbi to lob in some incendiary grenades while they feed your their story don t ever ever trust what your wonderful government tells you janet reno and the fbi have the murder of a hundred people on their hands hope they can sleep at night p vasilion kb nmv suny buffalo std disclaimers all you cult haters happy now just hope that your not next
|
9,627 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time in article r l dv usenet ins cwru edu oldham ces cwru edu daniel oldham writes what happened in waco is not the fault of the batf if they would of had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports when they meet hostile fire they should be able to use more force instead of retreating to a stand off if you are going to do a job then do it right the batf is there to protect us and they must have the proper equipment and people to do the job with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later did you forget to put in a sarcasm flag al standard disclaimer
|
9,628 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi revenge in article c se e coy boi hp com dianem boi hp com diane mathews writes ahem see the war on drugs as sponsored by the bush and reagan administrations the precedent had well been set for federal agencies to step on more than a few of what people consider rights i won t make excuses for anyone but most of the damage had been done before clinton even entered the race in not to mention last year s weaver affair anyway here s how i see the waco affair i d be interested in other peoples interpretations koresh and his people were basically minding their own business some weapons violations may have been committed and i wouldn t have disapproved of prosecuting him for those violations however i think the batf was criminal for starting negotiations with a military style assault and for firing into a house where there were children and other noncombatants i don t see they couldn t just leave a token guard on the place and wait the bds out i don t approve of the tear gas approach and if it caused the fire to be started i think the fbi agent responsible should spend years in jail however if koresh s response to the tear gas was to kill everyone there i hold him largely responsible for their deaths don
|
9,629 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi revenge hmmm i hadn t heard about rockets atf must be escalating their tall tails anyway if they had rocket launchers and such as the press and gov claims why shouldn t they have done something why should they have done something the davidians had not attacked or even threatened anyone what possible use would a religious cult have for a rocket launcher it is not yours nor the governments right to tell others what they have a legitimate right to own also is child abuse covered by the bill of rights is child abuse now within the jurisdiction of the department of the treasury attacking citizens without due process on the strength of unsubstantiated rumors about a violation of a law which does not fall under your jurisdiction is a pretty serious breech of rights shit if people dont get what they want right away there is an instant problem clinton has only been in office for a few months give him a chance to get something done the guy had a lot of shit thrown in his lap in the beginning give him a chance to work on things a little as they say rome wasn t built in a day if he gets any more done we will really be in trouble mike
|
9,630 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews hmm am i the only person that remembers masada this isn t the first time a group has committed suicide to avoid persecution capture and you seem to miss the point that the raid should never have happened in the first place i find the fbi actions too damn reminiscent of the warsaw ghetto fitting that al gore was in poland for events marking the th anniversery of that remove any references to dates and you have two raids by government troops wearing black uniforms carrying automatic weapons backed by armored vehicles against religious minorities they claim were practicing sexually deviant behavior and hoarding weapons too damn similar james ps i am not advocating the bd s i just find the whole situation too damn troubling james s cochrane when in danger or in doubt run in this space gt a prism gatech edu circles scream and shout for rent
|
9,631 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi revenge in rwing uucp pat rwing uucp pat myrto writes anybody for impeachment yeah me both the slickmeister and hillary s buddy janet say they re responsible i want both their resignations on my desk yesterday i also want both thier butts up on federal civil rights violations something which carries life in prison as a penalty oh and i ll contribute to arlen specter s presidential campaign for having the nads to launch the senate investigation glenn r stone glenns eas gatech edu america in distress flag upside down sos save your republic before it no longer exists
|
9,632 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re with friends like these l neil smith in article c d g xw undergrad math uwaterloo ca papresco undergrad math uwaterloo ca paul prescod writes in article apr sco com allanh sco com allan j heim writes look if you can figure out a reliable means of keeping guns away from bad people while not interfering with good people i think we d all be for it the problem is the methods we re using now don t do the trick don t manufacture them don t sell them don t import them japan did this it required near total isolation from the rest of the world for centuries some guns will get through but far fewer and far less people will die because of them hunting weapons could be allowed of course as long as they are big and bulky and require reloading after a few shots how many times can you shoot at the same animal anyways one assumes they are moving hunting weapons are great for extortionist sharpshooters send me money or else i ll pick you off from miles away tim starr renaissance now assistant editor freedom network news the newsletter of isil the international society for individual liberty market st san francisco ca fax compuserve com think universally act selfishly starr genie slhs udel edu
|
9,633 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re ban all firearms in article baece pa utkvm utk edu pa utkvm utk edu david veal writes in article c d hv dp undergrad math uwaterloo ca papresco undergrad math uwaterloo ca paul prescod writes in article hydra gatech edu gt a prism gatech edu cochrane james shpleigh writes if guns were banned and a bunch showed up in south florida it would be x easier to trace and notice then a small ripple in the huge wave of the american gun craze do they teach courses in rude in canada they don t have too canadian culture is handed down largely from the united empire loyalists who fled from the american revolution canuckleheads tend to have a cratophilic or government loving attitude towards authority paul prescod is right in line with this elitist bigotry and prejudice that all my canadian friends hate in their fellow citizens his sort of snobbish canuck have an irrational horror of american democratic armed mobs tim starr renaissance now assistant editor freedom network news the newsletter of isil the international society for individual liberty market st san francisco ca fax compuserve com think universally act selfishly starr genie slhs udel edu
|
9,634 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re ban all firearms in article c d c k undergrad math uwaterloo ca papresco undergrad math uwaterloo ca paul prescod writes drugs are banned please tell me when this supply will dry up drugs are easier to manufacture easier to smuggle easier to hide no comparison you sir are an ignorant fool who knows nothing about either the drug business or the gun business tim starr renaissance now assistant editor freedom network news the newsletter of isil the international society for individual liberty market st san francisco ca fax compuserve com think universally act selfishly starr genie slhs udel edu
|
9,635 |
talk.politics.guns
|
weird science by l neil smith posted by cathy smith for l neil smith weird science everyone knows how to tell when a politician is lying his lips move what may not be equally obvious is that there are politicians and then there are politicians and that the phrase political science is subject to more than one interpretation years ago we heard how scientists were worried that a new ice age might be coming and later on that nuclear winter smoke and dust thrown into the atmosphere by full scale international unpleasantness was a possibility something like that may even have killed the dinosaurs what we didn t hear was that no actual data supported any of this that real world events the burning of kuwaiti oil fields tended to discredit it that mostly it was propaganda meant to weaken values that made america the most successful culture in history and that the dinosaurs probably died of something like the plague when continents drifted together exposing them to new germs we miss a lot like this unless we listen closely prince william sound site of the famous oil spill and mount st helen s weren t supposed to recover from their respective disasters for at least years that turned out not to be true although you d never know it from watching network nightly news or cnn it doesn t fit their agenda to inform us that the earth is vast and resilient and that nature is rougher on herself than we could ever be but for once the media aren t entirely to blame as ignorant of science as they are of everything they trust scientists to unscrew the inscrutable the trouble is that today s scientists have agendas of their own nobody in government that wellspring of scientific wherewithal is going to offer grants to an investigator who states truthfully that there is no respectable evidence for global warming the money and power for bureaucrats and politicians lie in mass transit and they hate the automobile blamed as a major cause of the mythical crisis as a source of privacy and freedom they find intolerable the same appears true of acid rain a deliberate hoax cooked up by the environmental protection agency which hates private industrial capitalism almost as much as it does your car and foisted on real scientists through trickery which has depended on specialists in different fields not talking to each other much the list goes on always with a common disreputable thread ozone depletion for which evidence is even more suspect and contradictory than for acid rain or global warming is no more than a last desperate attempt to indict private capitalism in an era when state central planning and the command economy have failed and can only find this final withered leg to teeter on decades of anti nuclear alarmism resting on foundations of myth and panic mongering have failed to erase the fact that nuclear power is the safest cleanest most efficient source of energy known to mankind and more to the point that the greater amount of energy there is available to any individual in society the freer that individual and his society become honest studies on the effects of individual gun ownership and self defense on crime conducted by investigators who began as ideological opponents to those concepts but which show massive reductions in the latter to be the result of the former have been suppressed most recently by the california state government and what the media didn t say about recent epa discoveries on the effect of secondhand smoking is that although some harm to non smokers may have been detected it was less by an order or two of magnitude than that associated with frying bacon a couple times a week or keeping a pet bird it s enough to make you wonder whether there was ever anything to the claim that smoking causes cancer that of course is the real threat represented by politically correct science the world is a dangerous place it would be nice to know the hazards i ve never believed smoking to be a healthy practice but given a lack of credibility on the part of today s science how am i to decide what to do about it nicotine is highly addictive to that much i can attest from experience yet the stress of quitting may be riskier than to continue there isn t any way to tell thanks to the corrupting influence of government money on the scientific establishment two centuries ago the founding fathers spared us certain agonies to which every other nation in the world has been subject at one time or another by creating a legal barrier between politics and religion each time some short sighted individual or group has tried to lower the barrier most recently over the issue of abortion blood real human blood hot and smoking in the street has wound up being shed real human blood is being shed over scientific issues as people s lives are ruined through the loss to agencies like the epa of livelihood or property it may have taken a lifetime to accumulate to diseases caused by toxins associated with burning fossil fuels for electrical power or thanks to bans on things like cyclamates when they die from the effects of obesity what we need now if we hope to survive as a civilization for two more centuries is another barrier a constitutional separation of state and science including medicine knowledge is valuable real science won t languish for lack of funding the money will simply come from contributors unwilling to pay for lies and everyone will benefit l neil smith author the probability broach the crystal empire henry martyn and forthcoming pallas lever action bbs fidonet libertarian second amendment caucus nra life member my opinions are of course my own
|
9,636 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re constitutionality of u s c o in article qksp l transfer stratus com cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes in article apr atlastele com brians atlastele com brian sheets writes and has no rights under the federal constitution so what i don t understand is how a statute like can be enforced on an individual so someone tell me how my government can tell me what i can or cannot possess just passing a law does not make it law sorry but i really can t figure out what you re trying to say above i guess what i am really asking like i did above how does my government who is my servent tell me the soveriegn what i can or cannot possess it would seem to me that the act of possessing a machine gun is no less criminal by definition than the act of possessing a television set i also would seem to me that it would be better to pass laws that say that if i harm or kill someone with the machine gun or the television set that there would be specific penalties for doing such everyone knows that laws are constitional until it goes to court sorry i was close not exactly no on is bound to obey an uncontitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it am jur d sec late d sec brian sheets truck what truck support engineer o o atlas telecom inc raiders of the lost ark brians atlastele com u
|
9,637 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re boston gun buy back ron miller wrote when you ask the question of the authorities or sponsors of buyback programs whether they will check for stolen weapons and they answer no it s total amnesty good point about registration schemes being used only for harassment deleted i would also like to point out that this is receiving stolen property and is no different than a pawn shop owner doing the same thing myron petro nra uspsa dvc y all the opinions included in this post are my sole responsibility and are protected by the first amendment and guarnteed by the second amendment if amnesty was their concern they should pay in cash rather than moneyorder and they should check to see if the gun turned in was stolen or not this way if a gun turns out to be stolen then even if they wanted to prosecute they don t know who to prosecute since the only concern of these hci and the like people seems to be the total eradication of guns legal or illegal why should they bother to check for stolen property if they knew who the rightful owner is then they would have to return the gun and hence contrary to their intent to ban all guns
|
9,638 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re ax the atf in article r innajc cronkite central sun com dbernard clesun central sun com writes even if it were a capital offense the warrant was not even an arrest warrant but a search warrant in other words there was no evidence of illegal arms just enough of a suggestion to get a judge to sign a license to search for illegal evidence it s hard to know what who to believe however the letter i received from the batf in response to one i sent to bentsen said that there was a search warrant and an arrest warrant don
|
9,639 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi revenge in article rwing uucp pat rwing uucp pat myrto writes i am sick dismayed discouraged and ashamed of our administration anybody for impeachment i have already called senators legislators and the governor demanding that the warrants be unsealed and that all involved in this atrocity including the president attorney general and governor be suspended pending an investigation i seriously doubt however that anything will ever be done welcome to amerika remember waco who will the government decide to murder next maybe you opinions are mine i don t care if you blame the university or the state
|
9,640 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article qvjh innh l hp col col hp com dduff col hp com dave duff writes nut case panics jumps the gun on the net before getting facts straight i really don t understand all this i watched on satellite network feeds as perhaps people died before my eyes while the two huey s fanned the flames and the fbi stopped the firetrucks at the gate something was very wrong with that scene perhaps if i d watched rambo movies i might ve been dulled to the pain of fellow humans dying thank god i still feel i m very sorry for you who don t for you who think they got what they deserved can you really believe that even if koresh was the sadistic mad man they said he was did the others deserve his fate if in fact he was mad wasn t that even more reason to believe he duped his followers and therefore they were innocent brainwashed victims is there any scenaro that justifies all that death and if not it is clear that the deaths would not have occured if the batf has not fucked up initially and now the fbi got impaitent and pushed korech over the edge and that s if you buy the latest version of the story hook line and sinker i have believed all along that they could not let them live the embarrassment to the batf and the fbi would ve been too severe remember this was a suspicion of tax evasion warrant there were no witnesses except the fbi all information filtered through the fbi all they had to do was allow one remote controlled pool camera be installed near the building and the press could ve done their job and would ve been able to back the fbi s story with close up video while incurring no risk to the press unless they did not want the public to see something the complete lack of any other source of information other than the fbi really causes me concern sick to my stomach and getting sicker from all the government apologists jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,641 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes i will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors but here goes monday april edt murder most foul cnn is reporting as i write this that the atf has ignited all the buildings of the branch dividian ranch near waco tx the lies from atf say holes were made in the walls and non lethal tear gas pumped in a few minutes after this started the whole thing went up all buildings are aflame no one has escaped i think it obvious that the atf used armored flame thrower vehicles to pump in unlit napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it this is murder atf murderers butchers this is genocidal mass slaughter of innocent people including children i have predicted this from the start but god it sickens me to see it happen i had hoped i was wrong i had hoped that there was still some shred of the america i grew up with and loved left alive i was wrong the nazis have won i repeat as of this time there are no survivors god help us all please crosspost don t let them get away with the slaughter of the children w k gorman an american in tears the latest news i saw was that two of the eight known survivors not no survivors as you so rudely put in all caps said they started the fire i won t go on with the things the wacko of waco did ted schuerzinger zed dartmouth edu this is not the secret message
|
9,642 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time daniel oldham oldham ces cwru edu wrote the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later is this a joke the legal way to serve a search warrant is to knock on the door tossing in a grenade to serve a search warrant violates the us constitution and is hence illegal the bd complied with legal search warrants in the past i do not understand why the batf used an illegal means to serve their search warrant last february steve kao
|
9,643 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re my reply to ny times editorial dear member of the nra in apr husc harvard edu kim scws harvard edu john kim writes as a legal gun owner i must disagree even when i don t see eye to eye with the n r a on a particular issue they are the only national group which has effectively fought for my rights to target shoot hunt and protect myself from dangerous criminals one more time it ain t about duck hunting it ain t about lone perps on lonely streets it s about defending our rights from the government which has seen fit to ignore history and attempt once again to take them from us they will succeed if we don t do something now that s why i think the nra is a bunch of weenies because they have forgotten that fundamental fact pardon all my shouting but there seem to be a whole helluva lot of people on condition white fat dumb and happy sucking that glass teat for all they re worth wake up and smell the cordite gang they re shooting at us and it s high time we shot back at least with our keyboards my two bits glenn r stone glenns eas gatech edu fly your flags at half staff and upside down to mourn and protest the death of the bor
|
9,644 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re ama support brady bill in article r ainnh f tamsun tamu edu dlb tamuts tamu edu daryl biberdorf writes the following was sent to me by a friend of mine a med student it originally appeared in a medical discussion list gun control the ama expressed support for s and h r the brady handgun violence prevention act citing its strong support for the brady bill in past congresses the ama termed as particularly alarming violence associated with and stemming from the widespread and easy availability and use of firearms the ama proceeded to comment while we recognize that a waiting period of business days before a handgun purchase will not address all of the difficult problems that have made violence so prevalent in our society we believe that it is a beginning and will save lives physicians are first hand witnesses to the horrendous cost in human life being exacted by firearm violence a reasonable waiting period before the purchase of a handgun is a protection that the american people deserve letters to senator howard m metzenbaum and representative charles e schumer march i wonder if the ama has an exact listing of lives saved in tennessee california and other waiting period states david veal univ of tenn div of cont education info services group pa utkvm utk edu i still remember the way you laughed the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft i m beginning to think you don t love me anymore weird al
|
9,645 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time daniel oldham oldham ces cwru edu wrote what happened in waco is not the fault of the batf if they would of had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened initial assault on the compound more like a wooden farm house if it burned to the ground like it did for what regardless of who started caused the fire none of this would have happened if the atf can honestly justify their initial assault and handled it properly question authority snip with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with show me some evidenence instead of repeating what the fbi atf told you mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later then i m sure you won t mind if the atf or the dea raid your house someday on a bogus informant tip so what if they killed wounded your family accidentally during the raid it s just a fair price to pay for law and order in this country right answer this question honestly before making anymore ignorant statements what is even more disturbing than out of control government agencies are citizens who allow them to be irresponsible f chiu
|
9,646 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re change of name in cmm thomasp holmenkollen ifi uio no thomasp ifi uio no thomas parsli writes make a new newsgroup called talk politics guns paranoid or talk politics guns they r here to take me away move all postings about waco and burn to guess where what does this censored from norway think he s doing telling us how to run the place i wanna know somebody please splain guess how norway survived the third reich give you a hint it wasn t by passive resistance the way the danes did it glenn r stone glenns eas gatech edu wearer of asbestos underoos
|
9,647 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re riddle me this in article apr jupiter sun csd unb ca j jupiter sun csd unb ca fuller m writes yet the fbi mouthpiece at this afternoon s press conference characterized the quantity of cs gas pumped into the building as massive and speculated that after a few hours of exposure any davidian gas masks would become useless does this sound not harmful to you hm a previous poster argued that the fact that the bd s did not rush to escape the burning building indicated that it was they and not any of the government actions that started the fire on the other hand i wonder if with a face full of massive amounts of cs i would be able to escape a burning tinder box like that ranch house assuming my best efforts cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,648 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re waco they did it masada in article c rtlj aqz usenet ucs indiana edu wwarf silver ucs indiana edu wayne j warf writes i can t see these people standing calmly around while they burned to death sorry i just can t see them choosing a death as horrible as this the story doesn t wash it ll take some convincing to get me to believe it the fbi said today that koresh had earlier intended to strap himself with explosives come over to the fbi agents and detonate but lost his nerve he lost his nerve for a quick clean death but not to roasted alive sorry don t believe it even if he was nutty as a fruitcake on ted koppel last night the ubiquitous australian woman claimed that koresh trained the women years ago how to commit suicide by swallowing cyanide or by putting a gun in their mouth with cyanide on hand why choose to roast yourself there are too many unanswered questions here cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,649 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes i will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors but here goes fret not you made it i have predicted this from the start but god it sickens me to see it happen i had hoped i was wrong i had hoped that there was still some shred of the america i grew up with and loved left alive i was wrong the nazis have won not while we still have our guns evil grin hey gang it s not about duck hunting or about dark alleys it s about black clad helmeted and booted troops storming houses and violating civil rights under color of law are you ready to defend your constitution glenn r stone glenns eas gatech edu
|
9,650 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time in article r l dv usenet ins cwru edu oldham ces cwru edu daniel oldham writes flame bait pure and simple
|
9,651 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re rewording the second amendment ideas in article apr ousrvr oulu fi dfo vttoulu tko vtt fi foxvog douglas writes in article qv v j transfer stratus com cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes in article c n gi f f ulowell ulowell edu jrutledg cs ulowell edu john lawrence rutledge writes the massive destructive power of many modern weapons makes the cost of an accidental or crimial usage of these weapons to great the weapons of mass destruction need to be in the control of the government only individual access would result in the needless deaths of millions this makes the right of the people to keep and bear many modern weapons non existant thanks for stating where you re coming from needless to say i disagree on every count you believe that individuals should have the right to own weapons of mass destruction i find it hard to believe that you would support a neighbor s right to keep nuclear weapons biological weapons and nerve gas on his her property if we cannot even agree on keeping weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of individuals can there be any hope for us i don t sign any blank checks when doug foxvog says weapons of mass destruction he means cbw and nukes when sarah brady says weapons of mass destruction she means street sweeper shotguns and semi automatic sks rifles when john lawrence rutledge says weapons of mass destruction and then immediately follows it with the us has thousands of people killed each year by handguns this number can easily be reduced by putting reasonable restrictions on them what does rutledge mean by the term cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,652 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re cnn for sale if anyone is keeping a list of the potential contributors you can put me down for under the conditions above keith emmen kde boi hp com
|
9,653 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article apr guinness idbsu edu betz gozer idbsu edu andrew betz writes in article c rynw iz news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes and i suppose the fbi also prevented them from coming out with their hands up while national tv cameras watch watch from where two miles away far enough away that whatever really happenned must be explained through the vengeful filter of a humiliated agency that said quote enough is enough please tell me what you think would have happened had the people come out with their hands up several weeks ago scenario that is simplest and most plausible i do not generally believe in conspiracy theories that involve complicated and unlikely scenarios the fbi sent letters to martin luther king s wife insinuating that mlk was having an affair again please tell us exactly how much you trust our supposedly benevolent government more than someone who would not release children from the compound i e more than david koresh vernon howell jesus christ i saw lengthy excerpts from an australian documentary made in that clearly showed that this was a cult i am not pleased with the batf handling of the affair i think they bungled it badly from the start but i don t think they are responsible for the fire which started in two different places the batf is by no means devoid of fault in the handling of this affair but to suggest that they may have intentionally started the fire is ludicrous i suspect that there were plenty of camerapeople willing to risk small arms fire to get some good footage these people were told to get the hell out of camera range why drew betz gozer idbsu edu brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho when you outlaw rights only outlaws will have rights spook fodder fema nsa clinton gore insurrection nsc semtex neptunium terrorist cia mi mi kgb deuterium
|
9,654 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in r inncsd clem handheld com jmd cube handheld com writes in article r v c i j menudo uh edu hadcrjam admin uh edu miller jimmy a writes in r poqinnc k clem handheld com jmd cube handheld com writes according to kikk radio in houston all nine survivors are either in hos pitals or in jails including the two who allegedly helped start the fires in the fbi briefing no mention was made of having the fire starters in custody which one the one yesterday or has there been another if it was yester day catch up imo of all conspiracy charges are easily explained by the simple fact that in these days of instantaneous news transmission all kinds of stuff gets said when people really just don t know what the hell s going on then the story changes once the facts are in and suddenly cries of its all a whitewash start naturally everybody wants to cover his her ass why the total isolation well it wasn t total isolation after the lawyer snuck in the first time they the fbi etc let him go back inside several times in cluding i think the day before the final assualt why not his mother why not the media damnfino i just tend to take issue with absolute statements that are ob viously wrong on their face and tend to inflame not inform the isolation was significant but not total semper fi jammer jim miller texas a m university and i don t speak for uh which is too bad because they could use the help become one with the student billing system be the student billing system power finds its way to those who take a stand stand up ordinary man rik emmet gil moore mike levine triumph
|
9,655 |
talk.politics.guns
|
fbi murders was re atf burns dividian jmd cube handheld com jim de arras writes i have believed all along that they could not let them live the embarrassment to the batf and the fbi would ve been too severe remember this was a suspicion of tax evasion warrant there were no witnesses except the fbi all information filtered through the fbi all they had to do was allow one remote controlled pool camera be installed near the building and the press could ve done their job and would ve been able to back the fbi s story with close up video while incurring no risk to the press unless they did not want the public to see something the complete lack of any other source of information other than the fbi really causes me concern sick to my stomach and getting sicker from all the government apologists well put jim i am as concerned about the media s complicity in this growing coverup can you imagine the media outrage the lawsuits the investigations that would emit if the government kept the media away from any other story particularly if a republican administration had been behind it what s going on here let s look beyond the initial blunder and examine what happened next i m a student of human phychology particularly in the area of psy ops because i ve found some of the techniques to be useful in business negotiations that puts me firmly in the amateur ranks this amateur knows that the first thing to do when sizing up the opponent is to do a psychological profile on him you can bet your ass the fbi had professionally done profiles on koresh koresh s behavior was emminently predictable it is typical of people who move away from civilization to be willing to fight to the death to preserve their isolation it would also be typical given koresh s religious orientation for such an individual to interpret a government assault as the apocalypse suicide is as an acceptable alternative to being consumed in the apocalypse imho the fbi knew all this and decided after days of concentrated psy ops to initiate that apocalypse i believe they chose a course of action designed specifically to push koresh over the edge while publicly appearing to be acting reasonably they knew that koresh considered the tanks to be the chariots of fire mentioned in the book of revelations they knew that sending tanks oops combat engineering vehicles obstensibly to perform gas insertions love that newspeak would push him over the edge look at some supporting evidence koresh s attorney mentioned on tv earlier today that one of koresh s major concern was the biblical role of the tanks stationed around the compound the fbi through reno on larry king last night and at the news conference this morning claimed to have listening devices in the compound if that was true they knew their actions were driving him to the brink they knew they were pushing the davidians toward mass suicide any rational and reasonable agency not interested in killing those people would at the first sign of preparations for suicide have pulled completely back and would have gotten rid of all the armor instead they continued with the gas insertion right up to the point where flames appeared the image that will remain etched in my mind is that of the tank strutting back and forth in front of the burning compound gloating over the kill let s step back and assess how this thing could have been ended without bloodshed this technique would have required a law enforcement agency interested in constitutionally enforcing the law and in the preservation of life instead of achieving a military victory and of vengence the way to have nabbed koresh was simply to have announced a pull back abandoned the assault torn down the concertina wire and removed the armor maintained covert surveillance of the compound and then exploited his ego to flush him out exploiting his ego would have been simple a simple invite or two from the tabloid talk shows to come on tv and tell how he whipped the us government would have been something he could not have resisted he could have then been nabbed when he left the compound simple clean and safe but because it would have required the fbi to execute a tactical retreat and would have deprived them of the revenge they sought it was totally out of the question not without all that testesterone floating around after all jannet reno had to show the world how big her balls are yesterday was a sad sad day for the american system i am sick to my very soul john john de armond wd oqc interested in high performance mobility performance engineering magazine tm interested in high tech and computers marietta ga send ur snail mail address to jgd dixie com perform dixie com for a free sample mag lee harvey oswald where are ya when we need ya
|
9,656 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article r tp em bigboote wpi edu mfrhein wpi wpi edu michael frederick rhein writes in article aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes i will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors but here goes in short mr gorman i am assuming mr as a title because i don t think a woman would be stupid enough to make this post i don t know what episode of cnn you what an incrediblt sexist remark come now mike what ever possessed you to make such a un pc remark i hope all women out there reading this are as incensed as i am remember woman are just as good as men women stand up for your right to be just as stupid as men in fact insist on every oppurtunity to be even more stupid than men you ve got the right use it hey it s a slow afternoon and i really don t want to get back to that report btw mega smileys for the humor impaired karl
|
9,657 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article r qsrinnc clem handheld com jmd cube handheld com jim de arras writes in article c s ds j news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes i agree that they deserved a trial they had more than days to come out and get their trial they chose to keep the children with them and to stay inside they chose to stay inside even after they were tear gassed i do not find these actions rational even noriega was smart enough to give up and go for the trial he deserved mr roby you are a government sucking heartless bastard unworthy of comment humans died yesterday humans who would not have died if the fbi had not taken the actions they did that is the undeniable truth i cried for them nor would they have died if they had come out with their hands empty that is undeniable truth my heart bleeds just as much as yours for the children who were never released given days of ample opportunities to do so my heart also bleeds for people so blinded by religious devotion to not have the common sense to leave the compound when tanks came up and started dropping in tear gas early in the morning you seem to say they got what they deserved i do not think this however if they did set the fire which started in more than one place and spread very quickly then they got what they wanted and put into motion themselves i see the batf is going to be investigated by the justice dept and likely by arlen spectre and congress this is good they have bungled the affair from the start jim jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,658 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews in article r mtoinna cronkite central sun com dbernard clesun central sun com writes gordon storga writes gentleman are we also forgetting the near genocide of the native american for the barbaric act of being heathen i e a non christian by a predominantly christian government that s a little over years as i recall i d say that for the most part it was religious persecution their religion dictated their lifestyle this is a stretch in fact a great many of the persecuted indians were christian a great many it would be simpler to state the obvious that white people wanted land the indians dominated or threatened i really don t think the government cared a hill of beans about the indians religion my native american girlfriend asks if the government really doesn t care a hill of beans about our religion how come they re still busting us for it in oregon washington and a few other places you d be a christian too if the u s army marched you into church at gunpoint michael mcclary mcclary netcom com for faster response address electronic mail to michael node com
|
9,659 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi revenge in donbc sl ewu netcom com donb netcom com writes anyway here s how i see the waco affair i d be interested in other peoples interpretations koresh and his people were basically minding their own business some weapons violations may have been committed and i wouldn t have disapproved of prosecuting him for those violations however i think the batf was criminal for starting negotiations with a military style assault and for firing into a house where there were children and other noncombatants i don t see they couldn t just leave a token guard on the place and wait the bds out i don t approve of the tear gas approach and if it caused the fire to be started i think the fbi agent responsible should spend years in jail i think the legal term would be negligent homicide however if koresh s response to the tear gas was to kill everyone there i hold him largely responsible for their deaths well it s nice to see someone with a brain a general lack of paranoia and a willingness to put his thoughts in public i tend to agree with all you have said never assume foul motives when stupidity will do jim s corrolary to occam s razor semper fi jammer jim miller texas a m university and i don t speak for uh which is too bad because they could use the help become one with the student billing system be the student billing system power finds its way to those who take a stand stand up ordinary man rik emmet gil moore mike levine triumph
|
9,660 |
talk.politics.guns
|
letter to david skaggs here is a letter i sent to david skaggs dem co before anybody says something yes the letter is a bit sharp in tone i have been writting reasonable and polite letters to him for years and all i get in return in the hci party line since he already is nra f rated i don t think that upsetting him will harm the cause sorry if you disagree but recent events in texas really have me pissed april representative skaggs recently i wrote to you regarding my outrage over the tactics used by the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms batf in texas in your response you stated that events in texas underscore the need for stricter gun control legislation to keep guns out of the hand of groups such as the branch davidians my question to you is what grounds would you use to deny them access to firearms best i can tell this statement underscores your apparent total ignorance of the subject and highlights your personal bias against firearms i say this because there are only two possible paths of gun control which you could have been referencing either you were talking about their access to semi automatics firearms in this case i should point out that semi automatic firearms are legal in most areas of this country including texas and colorado in addition the members of the cult have never been convicted of any crimes which would deny them the ability to purchase these weapons so under what grounds would you deny them these guns their religion the fact they they live in a large group alone by themselves because you consider them to be a cult maybe i consider your church to be a cult this line of reasoning by you borders on the concept of thought crimes you and pat robertson should really get along you were referring to the alleged fully automatic weapons possessed by the cult under current us law fully automatic weapons have been covered by some of the strictest gun control laws in this nation so if david koresh illegally possessed them he would have had to circumvent some of the strictest laws we have how will more laws help by the way it has been reported that david koresh possessed a federal firearms license which would have permitted him to possess fully automatic weapons if true the people who perished monday in the fire died so that the federal government could collect a couple hundred dollars in taxes on guns david koresh didn t declare i have heard claims that they were stockpiling weapons yet considering the number of people in the complex even weapons would not have been out of line with gun ownership statistics for all of texas what s next a siege of dallas ft worth for alleged stockpiling face it david skaggs you have voted for virtually every gun control law that has passed through congress yet you claim that you are only for reasonable restrictions bull handgun control inc is struggling to maintain paid members while the nra has just exceeded members they are still growing at a rate of new members per day driving around your district i see nra stickers every day in eight plus years of living here i have only seen one hci bumper sticker when you vote for your reasonable gun control laws are you really representing your district or are you representing sarah bradys thank you william j vojak april representative skaggs recently i wrote to you regarding my outrage over the tactics used by the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms batf in texas in your response you stated that events in texas underscore the need for stricter gun control legislation to keep guns out of the hand of groups such as the branch davidians my question to you is what grounds would you use to deny them access to firearms best i can tell this statement underscores your apparent total ignorance of the subject and highlights your personal bias against firearms i say this because there are only two possible paths of gun control which you could have been referencing either you were talking about their access to semi automatics firearms in this case i should point out that semi automatic firearms are legal in most areas of this country including texas and colorado in addition the members of the cult have never been convicted of any crimes which would deny them the ability to purchase these weapons so under what grounds would you deny them these guns their religion the fact they they live in a large group alone by themselves because you consider them to be a cult maybe i consider your church to be a cult this line of reasoning by you borders on the concept of thought crimes you and pat robertson should really get along you were referring to the alleged fully automatic weapons possessed by the cult under current us law fully automatic weapons have been covered by some of the strictest gun control laws in this nation so if david koresh illegally possessed them he would have had to circumvent some of the strictest laws we have how will more laws help by the way it has been reported that david koresh possessed a federal firearms license which would have permitted him to possess fully automatic weapons if true the people who perished monday in the fire died so that the federal government could collect a couple hundred dollars in taxes on guns david koresh didn t declare i have heard claims that they were stockpiling weapons yet considering the number of people in the complex even weapons would not have been out of line with gun ownership statistics for all of texas what s next a siege of dallas ft worth for alleged stockpiling face it david skaggs you have voted for virtually every gun control law that has passed through congress yet you claim that you are only for reasonable restrictions bull handgun control inc is struggling to maintain paid members while the nra has just exceeded members they are still growing at a rate of new members per day driving around your district i see nra stickers every day in eight plus years of living here i have only seen one hci bumper sticker when you vote for your reasonable gun control laws are you really representing your district or are you representing sarah bradys thank you william j vojak bill vojak vojak icebucket stortek com nra ila colorado firearms coalition the cbs nightly propaganda with dan rather rather not the cbs nightly propaganda with dan rather rather biased
|
9,661 |
talk.politics.guns
|
randy weaver trial update day note these trial updates are summarized from reports in the idaho statesman and the local nbc affiliate television station ktvb channel randy weaver kevin harris trial update day monday april was the fifth day of the trial synopsis government informant kenneth fadeley testified that randy weaver sold him two shotguns in violation of the national firearms act of u s district court judge edward lodge asks jurors not to hear accounts of the waco fire because of possible influences on the weaver harris case the testimony of fbi special agent greg rampton apparently ended without further incident as it was mentioned neither by ktvb nor the idaho statesman the day was highlighted by the testimony of kenneth fadeley who had been posing as an outlaw biker and illegal guns person named gus magiosono fadeley testified that he was acting as an informant for the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms in his dealings with randy weaver fadeley began by stating that he had met weaver in at an aryan nations summer conference in hayden lake idaho the two then met again october note the huge separation in time at a restaurant in sandpoint idaho to begin a weapons transaction he stated that weaver had said he felt like he weaver was being prepared to do something dangerous for the white cause the two later met october behind the restaurant and later went to a city park to make the sale during this second meeting fadeley was wearing a small recording device to tape the conversation weaver allegedly showed him an h r gauge shotgun with a inch barrel and an overall length of inches he additionally showed a remington gauge shotgun with a inch barrel and an overall length of inches nfa requires minimums of inches for barrel length and an overall length of inches on tape weaver is reported to have said that he could perform better work once his machine shop is set up the two then discuss the possibility of future sales fadeley then counts out three hundred dollars for the two guns and promises the balance of one hundred fifty dollars when they next meet note that the atf could have simply arrested him here why did they wait until january over a year later to arrest him this is not explained the next meeting took place on nov fadeley stated that his source had only come up with one hundred dollars instead of the one hundred fifty he d promised at this point weaver suspected he was dealing with an informant i had a guy in spokane tell me you were bad fadeley managed to convince weaver otherwise the idaho statesman states explicitly that three tapes were made of conversations with randy weaver thus each of these meetings must have been recorded however the statesman also reported that a tape of a telephone conversation involving vicki weaver randy weaver s wife was played to the court there must have also been phone taps these tapes were played to the court via both headphones and loudspeakers under the objections of gerry spence weaver s attorney spence said to a ktvb reporter that he wanted to make sure that the government proved its case if it has a case at all according to the rules randy weaver tore off his headphones and wept when he heard his wife s voice on the tape u s district court judge edward lodge asked jurors not to hear accounts of the waco fire because of possible influences on the weaver harris case exactly how such information could affect this trial is not explained other notes sunday evening there was a report on ktvb concerning kevin harris unnamed agents within the fbi admit that they are surprised that kevin harris is still alive first they were surprised that he survived the initial gunshot wound s sustained in the initial firefight at the y junction later when randy weaver was struck by sniper fire the sniper had reported that harris had been struck not weaver finally there was a report that the fbi agent who killed vicki weaver believed he was aiming at kevin harris instead this is what was reported critics are charging that the fbi was blatantly trying to eliminate the only non government witness to the deaths of samuel weaver and deputy marshal william degan some local people believe that harris s survival is simply due to divine intervention tuesday april will be the sixth day of the trial kenneth fadeley s testimony is scheduled to continue
|
9,662 |
talk.politics.guns
|
clipper chip i thought that the clipper chip that was posted to t p g sorry i lost the original post was a joke i really did i didn t believe it for a second but on the way to work this morning i heard about it on npr this scares me almost as much as the doublespeak emanating from the fbi and batf in waco paul eric stoufflet columbia presbyterian medical center internet pes cunixf cc columbia edu all opinions are my own
|
9,663 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re die koresh die in article r h q a umcc umcc umich edu tim umcc umcc umich edu tim tyler writes i was hoping that however the situation was resolved the property would remain intact so the gov t could sell it to help pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars of expenses incurred having to babysit krazy koresh his flock of sheep in some south american countries after political undesirables disappeared the family would get a notice of death and a bill for the disposal of the body you apparently think that would be a good idea the federal government initiated this action against koresh and his followers surrounded them for days engaged in psychological warfare used heavy military equipment against us citizens on us soil and now that the compound caught fire while they were pumping in cs gas after knocking holes in the building disavows all responsibility big brother is not always right paul eric stoufflet columbia presbyterian medical center internet pes cunixf cc columbia edu all opinions are my own
|
9,664 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re ax the atf in article donbc sl f i netcom com donb netcom com don baldwin writes it s hard to know what who to believe however the letter i received from the batf in response to one i sent to bentsen said that there was a search warrant and an arrest warrant check again you may find that the arrest warrant was issued after the first firefight cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,665 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time in article r l dv usenet ins cwru edu oldham ces cwru edu daniel oldham writes what happened in waco is not the fault of the batf if they would of had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports when they meet hostile fire they should be able to use more force instead of retreating to a stand off if you are going to do a job then do it right the batf is there to protect us and they must have the proper equipment and people to do the job with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later i hope that you are in the way of the noble federal enforcers and are blown away accidently by the governments goons you would cheer the death to childern this is the sort of person who served as a death camp guard rod anderson n nzo the only acceptable substitute boulder co for brains is silence rcanders nyx cs du edu solomon short satellite n nzo on ao
|
9,666 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article kevin apr axon usa kevin axon usa kevin vanhorn writes in article c rpoj ijv news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes two of the nine who escaped the compound said the fire was deliberately set by cult members correction the fbi says that two of the nine who escaped said the fire was deliberately set by cult members since the press was kept miles away we have absolutely no independent verification of any of the government s claims in this matter moreover the batf has admitted having agents in the compound and as far as i have been able to ascertain those agents were still in the compound when the first shots were fired for all we know these two people may be the agents who would certainly be unlikely to stay around and cook with the faithful assuming the two people in question were even in the compound at all maybe i sound paranoid but i watched janet reno last night harping on how much david koresh was a big bad child abuser and i kept wondering why she much less batf wanted us to infer that she had any jurisdiction over such accusations in the first place i m positive that the sealed warrant is not for child abuse what was it for peobably weapons violations janet reno didn t say word one last night about weapons violations why because she knows that such a case is no longer believable cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,667 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article apr mcs kent edu mhamilto nimitz mcs kent edu the lawnmowerman writes this is genocidal mass slaughter of innocent people including children is this guy serious if he would ever really pay attention to the news oops i forgot that the media for the most part loves to jump right on top of a story before all the facts are known as well as to manipulate what we see and thus what we believe besides a majority of these children were children that he was supposed to have been the father of this then makes them bastard children to a sacraligious zeloit sp oh then i guess that shooting those kind of babies is all right you sick bastard cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,668 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article r tp em bigboote wpi edu mfrhein wpi wpi edu michael frederick rhein writes napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas do you eat all your food cold cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,669 |
talk.politics.guns
|
incompetent law enforcement can kill ever since the siege at waco started the fbi spokesman has been stressing how unstable and paranoid david koresh was he stressed how likely it was the the branch davidians would commit mass suicide he was concerned with the safety of the children what did the fbi do to defuse the situation did they try to reassure koresh did the fbi offer medical assistance to the bd did the fbi offer them a supply of water when the bd pump stoped working did the permit koresh to communicate with anyone outside the compound what the fbi did was harass the branch davidians as much as possible they kept powerful lights shining on the compound shut off their electrical power put their pump out of action assaulted their ears with loud noise cut off their communication with the outside and kept limiting their permitter the stated goal was to put pressure on david koresh was the fbi attempting to get koresh to surrender or were they hoping to get koresh so mad that he and some of his followers would attack the the tanks it appears that the tactics employed by the fbi did drive koresh over the edge the blame for the deaths should be shared by both the federal experts whose tactics drove koresh over the edge and the fools at the atf who planed the raid stupidity and incompetence of the batf and the fbi leadership have resulted in the needless death of innocent people if every thing had gone as planned people would be alive today instead the atf screwed up and caused the death of incompetent law enforcement can kill you rod anderson n nzo the only acceptable substitute boulder co for brains is silence rcanders nyx cs du edu solomon short satellite n nzo on ao
|
9,670 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article mvpc rp n ts netcom com mvp netcom com mike van pelt writes in article bb a pa utkvm utk edu pa utkvm utk edu david veal writes be cute if koresh hit the trail maybe he was bodily assumed into heaven wouldn t that just make ag reno s day snort i sorta doubt it however no bodies by the time this message gets out they ll doubtless have found bunches but wouldn t it be interesting if they had a tunnel and are long gone if they hadn t killed the atf people in the original raid i think i would laugh my ass off actually to be honest i still might ryan
|
9,671 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re some more about gun control in article apr beaver cs washington edu graham cs washington edu stephen graham writes it s worth noting that us vs miller sustained miller s conviction of possession of an illegal firearm noting that a sawed off shotgun was not a proper militia weapon therefore us vs miller supports limited government regulation of firearms then it also supports basing such regulations on ignorance miller had disappeared and nobody bothered to present his side to the supreme court in particular that sawed off shotguns were used in the world war i trenches and in other tight spots ever since guns had been invented would you turn one down if you had to clean an alley in e st louis vegetarians kill too
|
9,672 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time in article r l dv usenet ins cwru edu oldham ces cwru edu daniel oldham writes the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports when they meet hostile fire they should be able to use more force instead of retreating to a stand off if you are going to do a job then do it right the batf is there to protect us and they must have the proper equipment and people to do the job the batf is there to collect taxes not to protect your sorry ass or mine with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country all flame bait of course if you really want to be flame bait send me your address and i ll tell the batf about those automatic weapons you have stockpiled you ll be warm in no time cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,673 |
talk.politics.guns
|
will cs burn or explode the fbi released large amounts of cs tear gas into the compound in waco cs tear gas is a fine power is cs inflammable grain dust suspended in air can form an explosive mixture will cs suspended in air form an explosive mix could large quantities of cs have fueled the rapid spread of fire in the compound please note i am directing all followups to talk politics guns rod anderson n nzo the only acceptable substitute boulder co for brains is silence rcanders nyx cs du edu solomon short satellite n nzo on ao
|
9,674 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re blast them next time and we thought the unfortunate people in the branch dividians were brainwashed they don t hold a candle to this guy d d wq b daniel oldham oldham ces cwru edu wrote what happened in waco is not the fault of the batf if they would of had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened the batf needs more people better weapons and more armored transports when they meet hostile fire they should be able to use more force instead of retreating to a stand off if you are going to do a job then do it right the batf is there to protect us and they must have the proper equipment and people to do the job with the wod and the increased crime in the streets the batf is needed more now then ever if they blast away a few good fokes then that is the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country look at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country of ours with the arms build up in waco they needed to hit that compound with mega fire power they could of gone in there blasting and killed a few women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn to death days later
|
9,675 |
talk.politics.guns
|
fbi director s statement on waco standoff in the interests of completeness i thought readers of these newsgroups would want to see fbi director william sessions statement as released by the fbi press office fbi director s statement on waco standoff to national desk contact federal bureau of investigation press office washington april the following is a statement by fbi director william s sessions regarding the branch davidian incident in waco texas i had hoped to be making a very different statement this evening after very careful planning and extensive preparation we all thought that today s efforts by the fbi to bring the branch davidians out of their compound would result in the peaceful resolution of the stand off or at least meaningful negotiation instead we are faced with devastation and death however i have no question that our plan was correct and was conducted with extreme professionalism and care i applaud the restraint shown by agents in the face of life threatening gunfire and i thank them for risking their lives to try to end this peacefully i have only the greatest admiration for the courage and professionalism of all involved
|
9,676 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article aej d cmuvm bitnet aej d cmuvm bitnet writes i will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors but here goes monday april edt murder most foul cnn is reporting as i write this that the atf has ignited all the buildings of the branch dividian ranch near waco tx the lies from atf say holes were made in the walls and non lethal tear gas pumped in a few minutes after this started the whole thing went up all buildings are aflame no one has escaped i think it obvious that the atf used armored flame thrower vehicles to pump in unlit napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it actually if a few minutes translates into hours you have it right but you and i guess your single source news agency cnn failed to mention the davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it in plain view this is murder well small scale jim jones type suicide with fire instead of kool aid atf murderers butchers sorry guy you got it wrong atf was pumping tear gas into the compound the branch davidians going along with their apocolyptic faith set their own compound on fire killing all but or so no children survived this is genocidal mass slaughter of innocent people including children self slaughter anyway i pity the children who were to young to be able to make a conscious choice i have predicted this from the start but god it sickens me to see it happen i had hoped i was wrong i had hoped that there was still some shred of the america i grew up with and loved left alive i was wrong the nazis have won you are wrong thank goodness i would suggest however that you take a deep breath and wait minutes or so before posting also make sure your facts are correct before making your allegations sp i repeat as of this time there are no survivors you repeated wrong there were god help us all god help the branch davidians please crosspost don t let them get away with the slaughter of the children no don t there is way too much of this crap being crossposted all over creation as it is personal opinions why brent irvine yes what did you think irvine uxh cso uiuc edu they were
|
9,677 |
talk.politics.guns
|
riddle me something else on the other hand i wonder if with a face full of massive amounts of cs i would be able to escape a burning tinder box like that ranch house assuming my best efforts what ever happened to the adobe fortress i kept hearing about i thought this was a cult stronghold if the kgbatf knew it was a tinderbox why didn t they just have all the talking heads line up and start huffin and puffin random
|
9,678 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re riddle me this in article apr jupiter sun csd unb ca j jupiter sun csd unb ca fuller m writes does a not harmful gassing mean that you can with a little willpower stay inside indefinitely without suffering any serious health problems if so why was cs often employed against tunnels in vietnam what is the difference anyway cs tear gas was used in vietnam because it makes you wretch so hard that your stomach comes out thru your throat well not quite that bad but you can t really do much to defend yourself while you are blowing cookies chuck harris wa uqv chuck eng umd edu
|
9,679 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re die koresh die the explanations of federal law enforcement officials about what happened in waco is just another example of the survivors writing the history books to put themselves in the best of a bad light dave feustel n myi feustel netcom com i m beginning to look forward to reaching the allocation of taxes to pay for the interest on the national debt at that point the federal government will be will go out of business for lack of funds
|
9,680 |
talk.politics.guns
|
the cold war who really won if one reasons that the united states of america at one time represented and protected freedom individual liberty and personal responsibility and i do in fact think that this is true and that totalitarianism absolute government control and tyranny represents freedom s opposite which it does did the usa really win the cold war standard disclaimers always apply graham k glover unmutual
|
9,681 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article apr guinness idbsu edu betz gozer idbsu edu andrew betz writes in article c sou lnb news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes watch from where two miles away far enough away that whatever really happenned must be explained through the vengeful filter of a humiliated agency that said quote enough is enough please tell me what you think would have happened had the people come out with their hands up several weeks ago no answer you didn t answer the question the fbi took people out of camera range it is thus possible that they were engaging in questionable activities i do not feel like the cameras were out of range cameras watched the first confrontation cameras watched the banners cmaeras watched the final confrontation with tanks cameras watched the fire when weren t cameras able to watch when would cameras be unable to watch people coming out with their hands up as to your question please tell me what you think would have happened had the atf goon squad knocked and asked politely several weeks ago as opposed to playing rambo with a t v crew in tow well that is what batf should have done either koresh would have gone peaceably as he has done in the past or perhaps it was already too close to the apocalypse in his own mind it is hard to predict the actions of a leader who would not release the children when most rational people would now will you answer my question up top drew betz gozer idbsu edu brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho when you outlaw rights only outlaws will have rights spook fodder fema nsa clinton gore insurrection nsc semtex neptunium terrorist cia mi mi kgb deuterium
|
9,682 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re statement to everyone on t p g in article apr csd newshost stanford edu andy sail stanford edu andy freeman says clue kratz position isn t a defense against inaccuracy i oppose gun control because it doesn t work if it did i d support it in fact i supported gun control before i did my homework there s no demand for pro gun people who don t know what they re talking about in fact they d be much better off if they didn t say anything and why is this freeman even if a pro gun person doesn t know what they are talking about there is always the possibility that they will learn a thing or two i am and will continue to post even if people get angry with what i have to say i have several good sources of material now that i know where to look so calm down there s lots of information flowing on tpg for those interested in learning one can participate in those discussions without ranting inaccurately failure to do so has consequences ah freeman seems to forget from my statement that i am learning i have also asked several of the not so hostile folks on this group for sources of information to read do you think freeman that maybe this means i am interested in learning i think it does because as you said people who don t know anything won t be good for the pro gun cause another good habit to get into is to go read only for a while to take the time to figure out how things work another good habit to get into is to realize that not everyone is you freeman and accept mistakes sure maybe it could have been some type of misinformation being slung by some anti gun nut but it wasn t i made my statement to inform everyone of this and everyone who replied said don t worry about it but also to learn as much as you can they accepted my mistake and gave me sources of information and told me to read as much as possible i have read several posts of yours and have found them informative why don t you give me the same chance andy jason
|
9,683 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re guns gone good riddance jrm gnv ifas ufl edu writes you are loosing stuff deleted avoid situations which encourage criminals then you will be as safe as possible such as it is really how do you avoid situations which encourage criminals i d really like to know would you say prohibit female college students from riding their bicycles near the university during the daytime sounds a bit drastic doesn t it especially when the university is locatd in a nice residential area a friend of mine was attacked and nearly raped in just this situation the police didn t feel she was in a situation which encouraged criminals what do you think should we just tell her that it was her fault for daring to ride a bicycle in the middle of the day that she didn t avoid a situation that encouraged criminals if that s the case then we d all better put bars on our doors and windows and pray for a police state to keep us all safe crime happens in all situations there are no defined areas that criminals avoid larry sacks advanced micro devices lsacks angelo amd com
|
9,684 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article c sv hjy news cso uiuc edu irvine uxh cso uiuc edu brent irvine writes in article r j n t transfer stratus com cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes in article r tp em bigboote wpi edu mfrhein wpi wpi edu michael frederick rhein writes napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas do you eat all your food cold ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves very popular electric stoves outside metro areas especially brent the feds turned off the bd s electricity a couple of weeks ago perhaps you haven t been paying attention to the radio tv or newspapers though some things are too important not to give away to everybody else and have none left for yourself dieter the car salesman
|
9,685 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article r rad rl transfer stratus com cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes in article c s ds j news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes the original question was about who started the fire and whether the madmen were inside or outside the compound to which i replied on the possible sanity level of those inside and outside according to an australian documentary made in the year before the stand off began koresh and his followers all believed he was christ koresh had sex with children and women married to other men in the compound these were the perfect children resulting from the great seed of his magnified horn ex members describe him in ways not dissimilar to the way jim jones has been described point noted have you submitted your faith and sex life for batf clearance better hurry i believe the deadline was april i paid my taxes there was no reference to sex or religion on the form the comments above and below were meant to address who might be unstable enough to keep children in a building with tear gas or start a fire fbi agents have to pass rigorous psychological examinations and background checks plus those in charge will undoubtedly have to explain their decisions in great detail to congress why would the fbi want to fulfill koresh s own prophecy and nevertheless they hit all their marks and read all the scripted lines well it sure beats the hell out of me maybe thoreau had a clue when he said it is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious i agree that the batf handled the affair badly two of the nine who escaped the compound said the fire was deliberately set by cult members correction the fbi said that two of the cult members said this so far no one else has been able to talk to them so when they talk to the news reporters directly and relate the same details will you believe them believe them i won t even recognize them and neither will anyone else who doesn t know them personally do you believe they would put impostors before the national tv cameras at this point we are getting conflicting reports from the survivors best wait til more light is shed upon them of course this is no good if you believe in eternal darkness cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,686 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article lt keoinn v appserv eng sun com fiddler concertina eng sun com steve hix writes in article c siaj ks news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes why didn t they release the children weeks ago it would have been inconsistent behavior for them to have done so some people believe that there is more to life than the physical requirements these folks believed that the generally held standards of the surrounding community heck most of the world were morally wrong and letting the children be abandoned to this godless unbelieving culture would be condeming them to eternal loss and separation from god by their standards letting the children go would be abandoning them to a fate literally worse than death the fbi and batf and media people working on the issue i suspect just couldn t get their heads into a similar enough to say nothing of identical mode of thinking to realize what they were doing physically there was no reason why the bd s shouldn t have given up and come out a long time ago from the point of view of the bd s they were up against the wall and had nowhere to go at all they apparently really did love their kids too much to abandon them to a godless bunch of outsiders although the end result was horribly twisted i didn t say the bd s were right i just said that that s the way they perceived it koresh was a nutcase and a bunch of other people paid for that and the fbi and batf miscalculated and misunderstood what was going on from the word go very likely possible reminds me of the movie the rapture some things are too important not to give away to everybody else and have none left for yourself dieter the car salesman
|
9,687 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today it s truly unfortunate that we don t have the japanese tradition of hari kari for public officials to salvage some tatters of honor after they commit offenses against humanity like were perpetrated in waco texas today dave feustel n myi feustel netcom com i m beginning to look forward to reaching the allocation of taxes to pay for the interest on the national debt at that point the federal government will be will go out of business for lack of funds
|
9,688 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors brent irvine irvine uxh cso uiuc edu writes cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes mfrhein wpi wpi edu michael frederick rhein writes napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas do you eat all your food cold ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves very popular electric stoves outside metro areas especially oh i see electricity is a natural right our wonderful government would never cut off the power to the people they were besieging are you really this dumb or just acting like it for the sake of argument jason true love is better than anything except cough drops the princess bride book by william goldman steiner jupiter cse utoledo edu
|
9,689 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors brent irvine irvine uxh cso uiuc edu wrote failed to mention the davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it in plain view brent i m still waiting to see if there are any evidence of how the fire got started so i m not going to tell you who did it as far as you keep talking about the davidians pouring kerosene all over stop and think for a second if it is possible the stove or lamp was knocked over and started a fire and the davidians were pouring water on it wrong solution but i doubt i can do much better in their states of mind to try to put it out by the way just how far where you standing from the davidians when you saw them setting the place on fire oh in case you are new in town microwave ovens doesn t work very well when there s no electricty get some facts before you post next time f chiu
|
9,690 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article c sv hjy news cso uiuc edu irvine uxh cso uiuc edu brent irvine writes napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas do you eat all your food cold ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves very popular electric stoves outside metro areas especially microwaves don t work very well with no electricity mr engineer personal opinions why brent irvine yes what did you think irvine uxh cso uiuc edu they were jeff strait strait uicsl csl uiuc edu university of illinois phone if you ladies leave this island if you survive basic recruit training you will be a weapon a minister of death praying for war
|
9,691 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews in article apr midway uchicago edu thf midway uchicago edu writes in article qvfik rf usenet ins cwru edu cj cleveland freenet edu john w redelfs writes now that big brother has rubbed out one minority religion in waco who is next the mormons or jews the koreshians rubbed themselves out neither mormons nor jews have a propensity for dousing themselves with kerosene so i m not particularly concerned or shall we blame jim jones on the government also let s see if i have this straight a law is created that says you can not have a automatic weapon and therefore it s ok for the government to use any level of force to enforce that law doesn t matter if the entire population of the planet is destroyed as long as that law is obeyed do i read you correctly
|
9,692 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article c sv hjy news cso uiuc edu irvine uxh cso uiuc edu brent irvine writes as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas do you eat all your food cold ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves very popular electric stoves outside metro areas especially and they work especially well when the feds have cut off your utilities cdt rocket sw stratus com if you believe that i speak for my company or cdt vos stratus com write today for my special investors packet
|
9,693 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re atf burns dividian ranch no survivors in article c sv hjy news cso uiuc edu irvine uxh cso uiuc edu brent irvine writes in article r j n t transfer stratus com cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes in article r tp em bigboote wpi edu mfrhein wpi wpi edu michael frederick rhein writes napalm then let the wood stove inside ignite it as someone else has pointed out why would the stove be in use on a warm day in texas do you eat all your food cold ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves very popular electric stoves outside metro areas especially brent shows his ignorance once again power had been cut for weeks and he s never lived in a rural area if he thinks electric stoves have favor there they stop working when the power fails and power restoration come much slower in the country than the city lp gas stoves and ovens are very much prefered personal opinions why brent irvine yes what did you think irvine uxh cso uiuc edu they were jim jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,694 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re batf fbi murders almost everyone in waco today in article c sou lnb news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes in article apr guinness idbsu edu betz gozer idbsu edu andrew betz writes in article c rynw iz news udel edu roby chopin udel edu scott w roby writes and i suppose the fbi also prevented them from coming out with their hands up while national tv cameras watch watch from where two miles away far enough away that whatever really happenned must be explained through the vengeful filter of a humiliated agency that said quote enough is enough please tell me what you think would have happened had the people come out with their hands up several weeks ago it didn t happen scenario that is simplest and most plausible i do not generally believe in conspiracy theories that involve complicated and unlikely scenarios the fbi sent letters to martin luther king s wife insinuating that mlk was having an affair again please tell us exactly how much you trust our supposedly benevolent government more than someone who would not release children from the compound obviously you are an authority worshiper i e more than david koresh vernon howell jesus christ i saw lengthy excerpts from an australian documentary made in that clearly showed that this was a cult give me a camera and time with you and i can present excerpts that show you to be a cult leader guarenteed you should at least view the whole documentary before you claim it as a source i am not pleased with the batf handling of the affair i think they bungled it badly from the start but i don t think they are responsible for the fire which started in two different places two places eh you saw this or did the wonderful fbi tell you this i saw one place the batf is by no means devoid of fault in the handling of this affair but to suggest that they may have intentionally started the fire is ludicrous i suspect that there were plenty of camerapeople willing to risk small arms fire to get some good footage these people were told to get the hell out of camera range why couldn t answer this one eh this is the most important question of all it is the root cause of all the other suspicion drew betz gozer idbsu edu brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho when you outlaw rights only outlaws will have rights spook fodder fema nsa clinton gore insurrection nsc semtex neptunium terrorist cia mi mi kgb deuterium jim jmd handheld com i m always rethinking that there s never been a day when i haven t rethought that but i can t do that by myself bill clinton april if i were an american as i am an englishman while a foreign troop was landed in my country i never would lay down my arms never never never william pitt earl of chatham nov
|
9,695 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re the pill for deer no hunting in article qk jm sh transfer stratus com cdt sw stratus com c d tavares writes in article apr gnv ifas ufl edu jrm gnv ifas ufl edu writes why are good neighborhoods good it isn t because every person is armed to the teeth it is because of attitude and cooperation in the good neighborhoods the residents make themselves aware of their neighbors and notice when strangers are lurking around good neighborhoods form groups like crime watch to increase this effect and the relative effectiveness of the police when hostiles are arrested the good neighbors step up and say that s the one officer he was robbing mr jones house sometimes this works sometimes it just lands your good neighbors on the dance card for the next wave of drive bys someone here once told a story about la gangs moving into phoenix i ve misplaced the here a a copy cdt newsgroups talk politics guns ou politics path dg rtp psinntp uunet sun barr ames haven umd edu darwin sura net wupost csus edu netcom com mvp from mvp netcom com mike van pelt subject the difference an armed civilian population makes message id y n tc mvp netcom com date thu sep gmt organization netcom online communication services guest references swood vela lines along the lines of the armed citizen here s a story that some of you may find amusing it s a story about arizona house hunting from leslie fish musician and author one of the reasons i m planning to move to arizona is that despite its lousy economy way race problems simmering religious problems and hopelessly bad government arizona has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country is it just coincidence that arizona is also one of the few remaining no gun control states in the country well consider this funny story last time i was in phoenix staying with liz burnham i did some checking on the local real estate market that s when i discovered that with my income as provable by my tax returns i can qualify for every low income housing loan in the book with the exception of va and i came across an astonishing ad in the local market paper it offered a three bedroom house in the phoenix area for are you ready for this all of no money down per month total payments christ on a harley davidson i called up the real estate office making this offer made it clear that i was only checking the local market and asked about that house were the walls roof and foundation structurally sound yes were the plumbing and electrical systems functional and up to code yes did the air conditioning system an absolute necessity in phoenix work yes again okay so what was wrong with the house well it needed lots of plastering painting yard work and some patching of the roof and yes low interest repair loans were available okay sez i if that s all that s wrong with it just why are you selling a bedroom house for all of well squirms the agent it s in kind of a bad neighborhood how bad sez i remembering some of the neighborhoods i ve seen in chicago and oakland worst in the city the agent sighs and then he told me this amazing story every few years it seems the big vice gangs in los angeles notice that there s no gang presence in phoenix which is just a quick hour drive from la and get the idea of setting up a subsidiary there well a couple years ago the colonizing force came to this neighborhood it being poor and spanish they figured they could move right in and take over bought this house and started operations unfortunately for them the neighbors not only didn t like this they didn t care for whores trotting up and down their streets all night pimps soliciting their kids dope deals on the corners in broad daylight and so on they weren t afraid to do something about it the neighbors called the cops for some reason the phoenix police are remarkably honest capable polite and prompt and the cops promptly came and swept up all the whores pimps and pushers off the street and away to jail the remaining gang members decided to retaliate in the fashion they usually use in la they got the complainant s name and address off the court records and did a drive by shooting at his house well this wasn t los angeles the moment the neighbors heard the first gunshots fired they all ran out their front doors with their own guns rifles shotguns pistols everything and shot back the car didn t make it to the end of the block it coasted to a stop riddled with more holes than the famous bonnie and clyde getaway car which i ve seen it s on display in a casino in a casino in las vegas the gas tank and fuel lines had been ruptured so the car caught fire the neighbors waited a good minutes making sure nobody got out of that car before they called the fire department to come put out the fire and tow the wreck away by that time the asphalt under the car had melted and caught fire too which subsequently left a large and nasty pot hole in the street the city is slow about repairing small streets so the hole stayed there providing a traffic hazard for several months all this was two years ago the agent concluded and there s been no trouble since but the house and the neighborhood still have a bad reputation and that s why the house was so cheap hearing this story i nearly laughed my ass off i told the agent that if i had the money at the moment i d by god buy the house this was nothing compared to bad neighborhoods i d seen here in california where drive by shootings go unchecked by the well armed cops let alone by the unarmed neighbors if that s the absolute worst you ll find in phoenix then that s the city for me that s the difference that an armed civilian population makes think about it mike van pelt when guns are outlawed mvp netcom com only carl rowan will have guns mvp hsv lsil com
|
9,696 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re who s next mormons and jews in article r bv dif apple com earlw apple com earl wallace writes the koreshians rubbed themselves out neither mormons nor jews have a propensity for dousing themselves with kerosene so i m not particularly concerned or shall we blame jim jones on the government also it is silly to make this statement fifteen minutes after the fire started the official word out of fbi headquaters in dc was that the dv s committed suicide it would seem logical that the lantern story has more credibility you can t even to pretend to know for sure what happened although clinton is doing just that jeff strait strait uicsl csl uiuc edu university of illinois phone impeach klinton
|
9,697 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re change of name what does this censored from norway think he s doing telling us how to run the place i wanna know somebody please splain guess how norway survived the third reich give you a hint it wasn t by passive resistance the way the danes did it i believe it had something to do with a politician whose name isn t exactly the most complimentary word nowadays one vidkun quisling we all know what a quisling is right i m sure everyone can come up with a few examples right about now steve
|
9,698 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re that silly outdated bill was re koresh and miranda in article apr csd newshost stanford edu andy sail stanford edu andy freeman writes in article qibs flk vela acs oakland edu awesley vela acs oakland edu awesley writes actually there was only one confirmed sniper to die in detroit according to sauter hines nightmare in detroit a rebellion it s what sources did sauter and hines use in congressional hearings later the newspaper folk admitted that their reports were completely wrong some of their excuses are understandable while others amount to gross negligence then there s their we lied as far as i know they never did the followup this btw is normal behavior for newsie s the followup isn t news i am pleased to accept life membership in the national rifle association and extend to your organization every good wish for continued success president john f kennedy march
|
9,699 |
talk.politics.guns
|
re reasonable for criminals civie arms limits in article apr gnv ifas ufl edu jrm gnv ifas ufl edu writes a poster claims he always asks anti gunners what they think would be reasonable personal firepower restrictions ok then caliber not greater than muzzle not greater than ft lbs with any combo of bullet wt vel action single shot rifles and single action revolvers revolvers bearing no more than six rounds and incorporating an anti fanning mechanism to discourage roy rogers wannabes bullets any non explosive variety hps just fine now these specs leave the h r magnum as about the most powerful allowable civie cartridge for handgun or rifle use it would be reasonably effective against home intruders muggers rabid wolves and other such nasties even with the firearm type limitations at the same time this caliber power limit would reduce the ultimate lethality of hits i suspect that you think that this is less lethal than the typical assault weapon you are wrong compared to what most criminals use a mm with military ammo fmjs or a military rifle use is extremely rare or mm with military ammo fmjs the h r magnum with civie bullets is more lethal most of the arms which criminals and the military use are among the least lethal arms in existance what if we just punish the criminal and leave the law abiding citizen alone it hasn t been tried in recient times but it might work
|
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.