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re life on mars in article apr pa a inland com don schiewer schiewer pa a inland com writes what is the deal with life on mars i save the face and heard associated theories which sound thin to me are we going back to mars to look at this face agian does anyone buy all the life theories try alt alien visitors
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re boom whoosh in article apr mnemosyne cs du edu wdwells nyx cs du edu david fuzzy wells writes i hear insert favorite rumor here that it will supposedly coincide with the atlanta olympics even worse the city of atlanta has a proposal before it to rent space on this orbiting billboard considering the caliber of people running this city there s no telling what we re going to have leering down at us from orbit matthew deluca georgia institute of technology atlanta georgia uucp decvax hplabs ncar purdue rutgers gatech prism matthew internet matthew phantom gatech edu
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re lunar colony race by or in article apr draper com mrf egbsun nosubdomain nodomain matthew r feulner writes need to find atleast billion for prize money my first thought is ross perot after further consideration i think he d be more likely to try to win it but come in a disappointing third try bill gates try sam walton s kids when the lunar society s m estimate of the cost of a lunar colony was mentioned at making orbit somebody asked jerry pournelle have you talked to bill gates the answer yes he says that if he were going to sink that much money into it he d want to run it and he doesn t have the time somebody then asked him about perot answer having ross perot on your board may be a bigger problem than not having the money all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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re life on mars in article apr pa a inland com schiewer pa a inland com don schiewer writes what is the deal with life on mars i save the face and heard associated theories which sound thin to me the face is an accident of light and shadow there are many faces in landforms on earth none is artificial well excluding mount rushmore and the like there is also a smiley face on mars and a kermit the frog the question of life in a more mundane sense bacteria or the like is not quite closed although the odds are against it and the most that the more orthodox exobiologists are hoping for now is fossils there are currently no particular plans to do any further searches for life are we going back to mars to look at this face agian mars observer currently approaching mars will probably try to get a better image or two of the face at some point it s not high priority nobody takes it very seriously the shadowed half of the face does not look very face like so all it will take is one shot at a different sun angle to ruin the illusion all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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re commercial mining activities on the moon in article r j inn j mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu doug mohney writes in article steinly apr topaz ucsc edu steinly topaz ucsc edu steinn sigurdsson writes very cost effective if you use the right accounting method sherzer methodology hell yes i m not going to let a bunch of seven suits tell me what the right way to estimate cost effectiveness is at least not until they can make their mind up long enough to leave their scheme stable for a fiscal year or two seriously though if you were to ask the british government whether their colonisation efforts in the americas were cost effective what answer do you think you d get what if you asked in and respectively steinn sigurdsson lick observatory steinly lick ucsc edu standard disclaimer if you ever have to go to shoeburyness take the a road the ok road that s the best go motoring on the a bb
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re level in article apr mksol dseg ti com mccall mksol dseg ti com fred j mccall writes given that i ve heard the shuttle software rated as level level out of how many also keep in mind that it was not achieved through the use of sophisticated tools but rather through a brute force and ignorance attack on the problem during the challenger standdown they simply threw hundreds of people at it and did the whole process by hand i think this is a little inaccurate based on feynman s account of the software development process before the standdown fred is basically correct no sophisticated tools just a lot of effort and painstaking care but they got this one right before challenger feynman cited the software people as exemplary compared to the engine people he also noted that the software people were starting to feel management pressure to cut corners but hadn t had to give in to it much yet among other things the software people worked very hard to get things right for the major pre flight simulations and considered a failure during those simulations to be nearly as bad as an in flight failure as a result the number of major simulation failures could be counted on one hand and the number of in flight failures was zero as fred mentioned elsewhere this applies only to the flight software software that runs experiments is typically mostly put together by the experimenters and gets nowhere near the same level of tender loving care none of the experimenters could afford it all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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re navstar positions c s bird may be flaking out and expecting to die soon or c may orbit over major users areas and it may be needed to provide redundancy on that plane while b may orbit over hicksville and not have muc of a user community pat
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re lindbergh and the moon was why not give g in article r nuvinnjep lynx unm edu cook varmit mdc com layne cook writes all of this talk about a commercial space race i e g to the first year moon base is intriguing similar prizes have influenced aerospace development before the k orteig prize helped lindbergh sell his spirit of saint louis venture to his financial backers but i strongly suspect that his saint louis backers had the foresight to realize that much more was at stake than could it work with the moon who are the far sighted financial backers of today the commercial uses of a transportation system between already settled and civilized areas are obvious spaceflight is not in this position the correct analogy is not with aviation of the s but the long transocean voyages of the age of discovery it didn t require gov t to fund these as long as something was known about the potential for profit at the destination in practice some were gov t funded some were private but there was no way that any wise investor would spend a large amount of money on a very risky investment with no idea of the possible payoff i am sure that a thriving spaceflight industry will eventually develop and large numbers of people will live and work off earth but if you ask me for specific justifications other than the increased resource base i can t give them we just don t know enough the launch rate demanded by existing space industries is just too low to bring costs down much and we are very much in the dark about what the revolutionary new space industries will be when they will practical how much will have to be invested to start them etc keith mancus mancus butch jsc nasa gov n wvr mancus sweetpea jsc nasa gov black powder and alcohol when your states and cities fall when your back s against the wall leslie fish
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re life on mars in article c ub s fd zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes in article apr pa a inland com schiewer pa a inland com don schiewer writes there are currently no particular plans to do any further searches for life not quite true one of the instruments on mars observer will be searching for potential fossil sites are we going back to mars to look at this face agian mars observer currently approaching mars will probably try to get a better image or two of the face at some point it s not high priority nobody takes it very seriously the shadowed half of the face does not look very face like so all it will take is one shot at a different sun angle to ruin the illusion the face and the viking landing sites will be targeted by the high resolution camera on mars observer ron baalke baalke kelvin jpl nasa gov jet propulsion lab m s telos the aweto from new zealand pasadena ca is part caterpillar and part vegetable
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re first spacewalk in article c sumg rf cs cmu edu flb flb optiplan fi f baube tm writes at one time there was speculation that the first spacewalk alexei leonov was a staged fake has any evidence to support or contradict this claim emerged was this claim perhaps another fevered cold war hallucination this claim was made when someone spotted training film footage spliced into the footage of the actual spacewalk dennis newkirk dennisn ecs comm mot com motorola land mobile products sector schaumburg il
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes why do spacecraft have to be shut off after funding cuts for example why couldn t magellan just be told to go into a safe mode and stay bobbing about venus in a low power use mode and if maybe in a few years if funding gets restored after the economy gets better hopefully it could be turned on again one consideration to remember is that if you don t turn it off now you may not be able to later this isn t a case of reaching over and flipping a switch much of the spacecraft has to be working correctly to execute a turn off command successfully spacecraft do malfunction in their old age the big concern is not radio clutter from idle spacecraft but radio clutter from malfunctioning spacecraft that can no longer be turned off all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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re proton centaur in article r aii ivs access digex net prb access pat writes in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes has anyone looked into the possiblity of a proton centaur combo i don t know a whole lot on proton but given that it is a multi stage rocket up to stages it may not really need the centaur plus it may end up seriously beating on said centaur the proton has been used in and stage versions the two stage version was used for the first launches while the and stage versions are used today the four stage version is used mostly for escape and geosynchronous orbits while the stage version is used for low earth orbits since this is the version that launched mir and the salyuts and the add on modules for mir as long as centaur is smaller than mir which i believe it is it should fit under the shroud i vaguely recall that the russians are developing a lh lox upper stage for the proton chris jones clj ksr com
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re why not give billion to first year long moon residents in article apr iti org aws iti org allen w sherzer writes in article c sjdp f zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes in spite of my great respect for the people you speak of i think their cost estimates are a bit over optimistic if nothing else a working ssto is at least as complex as a large airliner and has a smaller experience base it therefore seems that ssto development should cost at least as much as a typical airliner development that puts it in the g to g range alan don t forget a huge cost for airliner developement is faa certification the joke is when the paperwork exceeds teh weight of the airplane it will fly the sr and teh x both highly ambitious aero space projects were done on very narrow engineering budgets partly because they didn t spend much on paper pushing there is some company in missouri trying to get funding to build light commercial transporters on a low cost basis mostly by reducing faa certification costs pat
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re boom whoosh in article r ofinndku gap caltech edu palmer cco caltech edu david m palmer writes orbiting billboard i would just like to point out that it is much easier to place an object at orbital altitude than it is to place it with orbital velocity for a target km above the surface of earth you need a delta v of km s assuming that rockets with specific impulses of seconds are easy to produce a rocket with a dry weight of kg would require only about kg of fuel oxidizer unfortunately if you launch this from the us or are a us citizen you will need a launch permit from the office of commercial space transportation and i think it may be difficult to get a permit for an antisatellite weapon the threshold at which ocst licensing kicks in is roughly km the rules are actually phrased in more complex ways but that is the result all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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inflatable mile long space billboards was re vandalizing the sky in article c t k db research canon oz au enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes what s new in my opinion friday april washington dc space billboards is this one the spinoffs we were promised in science fiction writer robert heinlein published the man who sold the moon which involved a dispute over the sale of rights to the moon for use as billboard nasa has taken the firsteps toward this hideous vision of the future observers were startled this spring when a nasa launch vehicle arrived at the pad with schwarzenegger painted in huge block letters on the side of the booster rockets space marketing inc had arranged for the ad to promote arnold s latest movie well if you re going to get upset with this you might as well direct some of this moral outrage towards glavcosmos as well they pioneered this capitalist application of booster adverts long before nasa sign of the times a sony logo on a soyuz launcher now space marketing is working with university of colorado and livermore engineers on a plan to place a mile long inflatable billboard in low earth orbit this sounds like something lowell wood would think of does anyone know if he s involved nasa would provide contractual launch services however since nasa bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates wn mar the taxpayers would bear most of the expense this may look like environmental vandalism but mike lawson ceo of space marketing told us yesterday that the real purpose of the project is to help the environment the platform will carry ozone monitors he explained advertising is just to help defray costs this may be the purpose for the university of colorado people my guess is that the purpose for the livermore people is to learn how to build large inflatable space structures what do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize the night sky it is not even april anymore if this is true i think it s a great idea learning how to build to build structures in space in an essential step towards space development and given that freedom appears to be shrinking towards the vanishing point i question whether nasa s space station is going to provide much if any knowledge in this area especially if a design such as faget s wingless orbiter is chosen if such a project also monitors ozone depletion and demonstrates creative use of partial private sector funding in the process so much the better is nasa really supporting this junk and does anyone have any more details other than what was in the wn news blip how serious is this project is this just in the wild idea stage or does it have real funding are protesting groups being organized in the states not yet though if this project goes through i suppose the return of jeremy rifkin is inevitable brian yamauchi case western reserve university yamauchi alpha ces cwru edu department of computer engineering and science
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re why not give billion to first year lo in article apr iti org aws iti org allen w sherzer wrote in article c sjdp f zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes this prize isn t big enough to warrent developing a ssto but it is enough to do it if the vehicle exists actually there are people who will tell you that it would be enough to do ssto development if done privately as a cut rate operation of course they may be over optimistic in spite of my great respect for the people you speak of i think their cost estimates are a bit over optimistic if nothing else a working ssto is at least as complex as a large airliner and has a smaller experience base it therefore seems that ssto development should cost at least as much as a typical airliner development that puts it in the g to g range for the purpose of a contest i d bet some things could be cut like fuel for re entry any kind of heat shielding etc etc even still if the contest participants had to fund dc development it probably wouldn t be worth it to develop dc just for the contest just give me the cheapest heaviest lift man rated or at least under or so gs booster if i don t have to pay for dc development great i ll use it but back to the contest goals there was a recent article in aw st about a low cost it s all relative manned return to the moon a general dynamics scheme involving a titan iv shuttle to lift a centaur upper stage lev and crew capsule the mission consists of delivering two unmanned payloads to the lunar surface followed by a manned mission total cost us was billion joint esa nasa project was billion for the us share i didn t find a mention of how long the crew could stay but i d bet that its around days and the total payload delivered was about metric tonnes so if you ignore the scientific payload hitch a ride in the crew habitation module no return trip and toss in a few more tonnes for the additional consumables to last another months then you might be able to get a year visit out of tonnes and in case its not obvious that s a wild ass guess a pretty boring visit since every trip outdoors eats up a bit of lox and i m not certain if a home brewed or college brewed life support system could last a year but let s round this up to tonnes convient since the gd plan talks about ton payloads delivered to the lunar surface this adds up to two centaurs two levs two shuttle flights all to put a single man on the moon for a year hmmm not really practical anyone got a cheaper better way of delivering tonnes to the lunar surface within the decade anyone have a more precise guess about how much a year s supply of consumables and equipment would weigh and i was wondering about the gd lev is it reusable or is it discarded to burn up on return to leo if its not discarded could it be refueled henry do you know anything about the gd lev i noted that it uses rl engines aren t they reusable restartable would a lev fit in a dc i ve forgotten if i ever knew what the cargo bay dimensions are for the dc all in all i m not certain that the single goal prize of staying on the moon for a year is wise and or useful how about a prize for the first non government sponsered unmanned moon landing then another for a manned moon landing then yet another for a system to extract consumables from lunar soil another for a reusable earth moon shuttle and so forth find some way to build civilian moonbase infrastructure having a single goal might result in a bunch of contestents giving up after one person appeared to win and for those that didn t give up i find something a little scary about a half dozen people huddling in rickety little moon shelters i d like to see as much a reward for co operation as for competition lastly about ten or fifteen years back i seem to recall that there was an english space magazine that had an on going discussion about moonbases on the cheap i recalled it discussed things like how much heat the human body produced how much lunar material it d need for protection from solar flares etc unfortunately i don t remember the name of this magazine does this ring a bell to anyone craig keithley i don t remember i don t recall apple computer inc i got no memory of anything at all keithley apple com peter gabriel third album
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re comet in temporary orbit around jupiter also peri jove s of gehrels were april jupiter radii august jupiter radii where jupiter radius km mi au sorry perijoves i m not used to talking this language thanks again one final question the name gehrels wasn t known to me before this thread came up but the may issue of scientific american has an article about the inconstant cosmos with a photo of neil gehrels project scientist for nasa s compton gamma ray observatory same person mark brader softquad inc toronto information we want information utzoo sq msb msb sq com the prisoner this article is in the public domain
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iapetus saturn eclipse forwarded from john spencer spencer lowell edu there will be two eclipses of iapetus by saturn and its rings in may and july please spread the word here s some information about the events and then a couple of messages from jay goguen of jpl appealing for thermal observations of the eclipse to learn more about the thermal properties of iapetus he might also have some money available john spencer iapetus will be eclipsed by the shadows of saturn s rings and saturn itself on ut and again on ut timing is as follows may a ring ingress egress b ring ingress egress c ring egress saturn ingress egress b ring ingress egress a ring ingress egress july saturn ingress egress a ring ingress grazing egress times could be minutes later according to an alternate ephemeris and photometric observations are important for refining iapetus orbit because the sun s size projected on the rings as seen from iapetus is km it s unlikely that we will learn anything new about the rings themselves from the observations see soma astronomy and astrophysics l l for more details thanks to andy odell of northern arizona university for bringing the events to my attention thermal observations jay goguen jdg scn jpl nasa gov writes to me the interesting thing to do would be thermal ir of the july disappearance into the shadow of the planet to measure thermal inertia etc unfortunately the ut of this event renders it inaccessible except from russia even from calar alto saturn is rising through airmasses at ut do you know anyone in russia or ukraine with a big telescope and um instrumentation that s looking for something to do i d be willing to make a personal grant of for the data jay and again please try to encourage anyone that can observe the iapetus planet disappearance to do so at thermal wavelengths my impression would be that it s not an easy observation iapetus will be faint and getting fainter in eclipse so you ll need a big telescope that s a good ir telescope and reasonable um instrumentation i don t think that combination is widely available at the longitudes that are well placed for observation we need sofia for this one one possibility would be the ir telescope in india but it s only a m jay ron baalke baalke kelvin jpl nasa gov jet propulsion lab m s telos the aweto from new zealand pasadena ca is part caterpillar and part vegetable
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space colony size preferences summary some time ago i sent the following message every once in a while i design an orbital space colony i m gearing up to do another one i d some info from you if you were to move onto a space colony to live permanently how big would the colony have to be for you to view a permanent move as desirable specifically how many people do you want to share the colony with what physical dimensions does the living are need to have assume g living the colony will rotate assume that you can leave from time to time for vacations and business trips if you re young enough assume that you ll raise your children there i didn t get a lot of responses and they were all over the block thanx muchly to all those who responded it is good food for thought here s the edited responses i got how many people do you want to share the colony with what physical dimensions does the living are need to have cylinder m diameter x km long rui sousa ruca saber si pt how many people do you want to share the colony with what physical dimensions does the living are need to have square kms surface divided into city towns villages and countryside must have lakes rivers amd mountains how many people really isn t that large a number everyone will know everyone else within the space of a year and will probably be sick of everyone else within another year what physical dimensions does the living are need to have hm i am not all that great at figuring it out but i would maximize the percentage of colony space that is accessible to humans esecially if there were to be children since they will figure out how to go everywhere anyways and everyone especially me likes to go exploring i would want to be able to go for a walk and see something different each time for population i think i would want a substantial town big enough to have strangers in it this helps get away from the small town everybody knows everything syndrome which some people like but i don t call it several thousand people for physical dimensions a somewhat similar criterion big enough to contain surprises at least until you spent considerable time getting to know it as a more specific rule of thumb big enough for there to be places at least an hour away on foot call that km which means a km circumference if we re talking a sphere henry spencer at u of toronto zoology henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry my desires for permanent move to a space colony assuming easy communication and travel size about a small town size say sq km course bigger is better population about sq km or less so for sqkm less is better for elbow room more for interest and sanity so say max min tommy mac tom mcwilliams work inhale to the chief tm ibm cl msu edu hm zonker harris in
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re navstar positions you have missed something there is a big difference between being in the same plane and in exactly the same state positions and velocities equal in addition to this there has always been redundancies proposed bob robert w mcgwier n hy ccr p ida org center for communications research interests amateur radio astronomy golf princeton n j asst scoutmaster troop hightstown
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts in article apr kelvin jpl nasa gov baalke kelvin jpl nasa gov ron baalke writes in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes why do spacecraft have to be shut off after funding cuts for example why couldn t magellan just be told to go into a safe mode and stay bobbing about venus in a low power use mode and if maybe in a few years if funding gets restored after the economy gets better hopefully it could be turned on again it can be but the problem is a political one not a technical one also remember that every dollar spent keeping one spacecraft in safe mode probably a spin stabilized sun pointing orientation is a dollar not spent on mission analysis for a newer spacecraft in order to turn the spacecraft back on you either need to insure that the ops guys will be available or you need to retrain a new team having said that there are some spacecraft that do what you have proposed many of the operational satellites goddard flies like the tiros noaa series require more than one satellite in orbit for an operational set extras which get replaced on orbit are powered into a standby mode for use in an emergency in that case however the same ops team is still required to fly the operational birds so the standby maintenance is relatively cheap finally pat s explanation some spacecraft require continuous maintenance to stay under control is also right on the mark i suggested a spin stabilized control mode because it would require little power or maintenance but it still might require some momentum dumping from time to time in the end it is a political decision since the difference is money but there is some technical rationale behind the decision david w gsfc
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re what if the ussr had reached the moon first in article apr ke zv uucp gary ke zv uucp gary coffman writes why do you think at least a couple centuries before there will be significant commerical activity on the moon wishful thinking mostly lots of stuff about how the commerical moonbase fantasyland then what do you believe will finally motivate people to leave the earth i m not trying to flame you i just want to know where you stand chuck chuck chung o duke university dept of physics h durham n c cchung phy duke edu if pro is the opposite of con then what is the opposite of progress
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re proton centaur in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes has anyone looked into the possiblity of a proton centaur combo what would be the benefits and problems with such a combo other than the obvious instability in the xssr now i haven t seen any speculation about it but the salyut kb design bureau was planning a new lh lox second stage for the proton which would boost payload to leo from about to kg geostationary goes from kg gals launcher version to kg this scheme was competing with the energia m last year and i haven t heard which won except now i recently read that the central specialized kb was working on the successor to the soyuz booster which must be the energia m so the early results are energia m won but this is a guess nothing is very clear in russia i m sure if salyut kb gets funds from someone they will continue their development the centaur for the altas is about meters dia and the proton is so that s a good fit for their existing upper stage the block d which sets inside a shround just under meters dia i don t know about launch loads etc but since the centaur survives titan launches which are probably worse than the proton those titan srb s probably shake things up pretty good it seems feasible except the centaur is a very fragile thing and may require integration on the pad which is not available now protons are assembled and transported horizontially does anyone know how much stress in the way of a payload a centaur could support while bolted to a proton horizontally and then taken down the rail road track and erected on the pad they would also need lox and lh facilities added to the proton pads unless the new proton second stage is actually built and of course any centaur support systems and facilities no doubt imported from the us at great cost these systems may viloate us law so there are political problems to solve in addition to the instabilities in the cis you mention dennis newkirk dennisn ecs comm mot com motorola land mobile products sector schaumburg il
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level according to a software engineering professor here what was actually rated level five was an ibm unit which produced part of the software for the shuttle by not means all of it interesting note of the software development groups surveyed were at level the ibm shuttle groups was the only one at level c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c nathan f wallace c c reality is c c e mail wallacen cs colostate edu c c ancient alphaean proverb c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c
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re proton centaur in article apr lmpsbbs comm mot com dennisn ecs comm mot com dennis newkirk writes in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes has anyone looked into the possiblity of a proton centaur combo what would be the benefits and problems with such a combo other than the obvious instability in the xssr now the centaur for the altas is about meters dia and the proton is so that s a good fit for their existing upper stage the block d which sets inside a shround just under meters dia i don t know about launch loads etc but since the centaur survives titan launches which are probably worse than the proton those titan srb s probably shake things up pretty good it seems feasible except the centaur is a very fragile thing and may require integration on the pad which is not available now protons are assembled and transported horizontially does anyone know how much stress in the way of a payload a centaur could support while bolted to a proton horizontally and then taken down the rail road track and erected on the pad the centaur that is being built for t would be a better bet to integrate onto the proton as the t centaur is designed for the extremely harsh envorinment of the t launch it is also closer to m in diameter you ve hit on the real kicker however the centaur is pressure stabilized it cannot hold up its own weight without pressure in the tanks additionally the pressure difference between the two tanks must be maintained to psi that is rather tight to be rocking and rolling on the train the pressure stabilization is how centaur achieves the performance on numerous occasions when i was there the af wanted to see what it would take to make a non pressure stabilized centaur the answer a centaur not worth launching the atlas centaur does not require on pad integration however the t centaur does i believe the on pad integration is to a great extent due to the cleanliness requirements and pfl configuration so maybe something can be done there they would also need lox and lh facilities added to the proton pads unless the new proton second stage is actually built and of course any centaur support systems and facilities no doubt imported from the us at great cost these systems may viloate us law so there are political problems to solve in addition to the instabilities in the cis you mention the addition of lox lh facilities is critical as the centaur tops off as it lifts off a lhe facility is also needed i don t know what the proton uses for fuel but since they are derived from icbm s i would suspect that they use storable propellants which don t have the ullage problem that cryo s do if there is no cryo at the sight at all the addition of these systems could be big not to mention the real tech transfer issues involved with providing centaur gse to russia that issue alone might be enough to kill this idea h d stevens stanford university email hdsteven sun valley stanford edu aerospace robotics laboratory phone lab durand building bullpen stanford ca fax
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts prb access digex com pat pontificated some birds require constant management for survival pointing a sensor at the sun even when powered down may burn it out pointing a parabolic antenna at sol from venus orbit may trash the foci elements what i was getting at in my post is whether or not it might be possible to put enough brains on board future deep space probes for them to automatically avoid such things as looking at the sun or going into an uncontrolled tumble i heard once that the voyagers had a failsafe routine built in that essentially says if you never hear from earth again here s what to do this was a back up in the event a receiver burnt out but the probe could still send data limited but still some data even if you let teh bird drift it may get hosed by some cosmic phenomena since this would be a shutdown that may never be refunded for startup if some type of cosmic bem took out the probe it might not be such a big loss obviously you can t plan for everything but the most obvious things can be considered james t green jgreen oboe calpoly edu i know you believe you understand what it is that you think i said but i am not sure that you realize that what i said is not what i meant
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re inflatable mile long space billboards was re vandalizing the sky in article yamauchi apr yuggoth ces cwru edu yamauchi ces cwru edu brian yamauchi writes nasa would provide contractual launch services however since nasa bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates wn mar the taxpayers would bear most of the expense this may look like environmental vandalism but mike lawson ceo of space marketing told us yesterday that the real purpose of the project is to help the environment the platform will carry ozone monitors he explained advertising is just to help defray costs this may be the purpose for the university of colorado people my guess is that the purpose for the livermore people is to learn how to build large inflatable space structures the cu people have been and continue to be big ozone scientists so this is consistent it is also consistent with the new comercial applications that nasa and clinton are pushing so hard is nasa really supporting this junk did anyone catch the rocket that was launched with a movie advert all over it i think the rocket people got alot of for painting up the sides with the movie stuff what about the coke pepsi thing a few years back nasa has been trying to find ways to get other people into the space funding business for some time frankly i ve thought about trying it too when the funding gets tight only the innovative get funded one of the things nasa is big on is co funding if a pi can show co funding for any proposal that proposal has a significantly higher probability of being funded than a proposal with more merit but no co funding once again money talks h d stevens stanford university email hdsteven sun valley stanford edu aerospace robotics laboratory phone lab durand building bullpen stanford ca fax
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re vandalizing the sky in article c t k db research canon oz au enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes from the article what s new apr in sci physics research what s new in my opinion friday april washington dc space billboards is this one the spinoffs we were promised in science fiction writer robert heinlein published the man who sold the moon which involved a dispute over the sale of rights to the moon for use as billboard nasa has taken the firsteps toward this hideous vision of the future observers were startled this spring when a nasa launch vehicle arrived at the pad with schwarzenegger painted in huge block letters on the side of the booster rockets things could be worse a lot worse in the mid eighties the teen adult sci fi comic ad fleetway produced a short story featuring the award winning character judge dredd the story focussed on an advertising agency of the future who use high powered multi coloured lasers search lights pointed at the moon to paint images on the moon needless to say this use hacked off a load of lovers romantics and werewolfs crazies the ad guys got chopped the service discontinued a cautionary tale indeed marvin batty marvin batty djf uk ac cov cck and they shall not find those things with a sort of rafia like base that their fathers put there just the night before at about o clock
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re mars observer update hiya i m a very amuture astronomer in adelaide australia and today i heard some very interesting and exciting news from a local program on tv as i couldn t find anything on it on the news server i have posted this however if it is old information tell me and ill sue the tv station for saying they are up to date also my news server could be slow so i only caught the end of the article so all the information on the topic is not known to me at the moment the news is of a small psudo planet outside the orbit of pluto found in a hawiian obsevatory supposably recently acording to the report it was meant to be about miles in diamater and a faily large distance from the plutos orbit it had a computer drawing and the orbit distance from pluto was about the same as neptune to pluto when they are furthest apart this is all i found out about it oh it is called karna un officially can anyone give any more information to me on it thanx brendan woithe swoithe crackle aelmg adelaide edu au btw if this is old news does anyone know a good lawyer
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vandalizing the sky yamauchi ces cwru edu brian yamauchi writes enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes what s new in my opinion friday april washington dc space billboards is this one the spinoffs we were promised in science fiction writer robert heinlein published the man who sold the moon which involved a dispute over the sale of rights to the moon for use as billboard nasa has taken the firsteps toward this hideous vision of the future observers were startled this spring when a nasa launch vehicle arrived at the pad with schwarzenegger painted in huge block letters on the side of the booster rockets space marketing inc had arranged for the ad to promote arnold s latest movie well if you re going to get upset with this you might as well direct some of this moral outrage towards glavcosmos as well they pioneered this capitalist application of booster adverts long before nasa in fact you can all direct your ire at the proper target by ingoring nasa altogether the rocket is a commercial launch vechicle a conestoga flying a comet payload nasa is simply the primary customer i believe sdio has a small payload as well the advertising space was sold by the owners of the rocket who can do whatever they darn well please with it in addition these anonymous observers had no reason to be startled the deal made space news at least twice now space marketing is working with university of colorado and livermore engineers on a plan to place a mile long inflatable billboard in low earth orbit nasa would provide contractual launch services however since nasa bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates wn mar the taxpayers would bear most of the expense is nasa really supporting this junk and does anyone have any more details other than what was in the wn news blip how serious is this project is this just in the wild idea stage or does it have real funding i think its only fair to find that out before everyone starts having a hissy fit the fact that they bothered to use the conditional tense suggests that it has not yet been approved josh hopkins jbh uxa cso uiuc edu find a way or make one attributed to hannibal
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re lindbergh and the moon was why not give g mancus sweetpea jsc nasa gov keith mancus writes cook varmit mdc com layne cook writes all of this talk about a commercial space race i e g to the first year moon base is intriguing similar prizes have influenced aerospace development before the k orteig prize helped lindbergh sell his spirit of saint louis venture to his financial backers but i strongly suspect that his saint louis backers had the foresight to realize that much more was at stake than could it work with the moon who are the far sighted financial backers of today the commercial uses of a transportation system between already settled and civilized areas are obvious spaceflight is not in this position the correct analogy is not with aviation of the s but the long transocean voyages of the age of discovery lindbergh s flight took place in not the thirties it didn t require gov t to fund these as long as something was known about the potential for profit at the destination in practice some were gov t funded some were private could you give examples of privately funded ones but there was no way that any wise investor would spend a large amount of money on a very risky investment with no idea of the possible payoff your logic certainly applies to standard investment strategies however the concept of a prize for a difficult goal is done for different reasons i suspect i m not aware that mr orteig received any significant economic benefit from lindbergh s flight modern analogies such as the prize for a human powered helicopter face similar arguments there is little economic benefit in such a thing the advantage comes in the new approaches developed and the fact that a prize will frequently generate far more work than the equivalent amount of direct investment would a person who puts up x billion for a moon base is much more likely to do it because they want to see it done than because they expect to make money off the deal josh hopkins jbh uxa cso uiuc edu find a way or make one attributed to hannibal
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crazy or just imaginitive i have a nice quote that i like or as close as i can remember it if i say something that you think is crazy ask me what i mean before you think its crazy so some of my ideas are a bit odd off the wall and such but so was wilbur and orville wright and quite a few others sorry if i do not have the big degrees and such but i think i might be wrong to error is human i have something that is in many ways just as important i have imagination dreams and without dreams all the knowledge is worthless sorry my two cents worth or is it two rubles worth the basic quote idea is from h beam pipers book space vikings its a good book on how civilization can fall and how it can be raised to new heights unfortunately h beam piper killed him self just weeks short of having his first book published and have his ideas see light such a waste
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re moonbase race nasa resources why in article r o inn j mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu doug mohney writes in article c teik z zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes apollo was done the hard way in a big hurry from a very limited technology base and on government contracts just doing it privately rather than as a government project cuts costs by a factor of several so how much would it cost as a private venture assuming you could talk the u s government into leasing you a couple of pads in florida software engineering that s like military intelligence isn t it sysmgr cadlab eng umd edu why must it be a us government space launch pad directly i mean i know of a few that could launch a small package into space not including ariadne and the russian sites i know poker flats here in alaska thou used to be only sounding rockets for auroral borealous sp and other northern atmospheric items is at last i heard being upgraded to be able to put sattelites into orbit why must people in the us be fixed on using nasas direct resources poker flats is runin part by nasa but also by the univesity of alaska and the geophysical institute sounds like typical us cultural centralism and protectionism and people wonder why we have the multi trillion dollar deficite sp yes i am working on a spell checker michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked
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surviving large accelerations hi i was reading through the spaceflight handbook and somewhere in there the author discusses solar sails and the forces acting on them when and if they try to gain an initial acceleration by passing close to the sun in a hyperbolic orbit the magnitude of such accelerations he estimated to be on the order of g he also says that this is may not be a big problem for manned craft because humans and this was published in have already withstood accelerations of g all this is very long winded but here s my question finally are g accelerations in fact humanly tolerable with the aid of any mechanical devices of course if these are possible what is used to absorb the acceleration can this be extended to larger accelerations thanks is advance amruth laxman
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eco freaks forcing space mining here is a way to get the commericial companies into space and mineral exploration basically get the eci freaks to make it so hard to get the minerals on earth you think this is crazy well in a way it is but in a way it is reality there is a billin the congress to do just that basically to make it so expensive to mine minerals in the us unless you can by off the inspectors or tax collectors ascially what i understand from talking to a few miner friends of mine that they the congress propose to have a tax on the gross income of the mine versus the adjusted income also the state governments have there normal taxes so by the time you get done paying for materials workers and other expenses you can owe more than what you made basically if you make a and spend ofor expenses you can owe in federal taxes bascially it is driving the miners off the land and the only peopel who benefit are the eco freaks basically to get back to my beginning statement is space is the way to go cause it might just get to expensive to mine on earth because of either the eco freaks or the protectionist such fun we have in these interesting times michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked
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ssrt roll out speech ssrt rollout speech delivered by col simon p worden the deputy for technology sdio mcdonnell douglas huntington beach april most of you as am i are children of the s we grew up in an age of miracles inter continental ballistic missiles nuclear energy computers flights to the moon but these were miracles of our parent s doing for a decade and more the pundits have told us you ve lost it the me generation is only living on the accomplishments of the past you and i have even begun to believe the pessimists we listen in awe as the past generation tells of its triumphs living history they are we are privileged to hear those who did it tell of it a few weeks ago some of this very team listened in awe as general bernie schriever told of his team s work and yes struggle to build this nation s intercontinental ballistic missile what stories can we tell blurry eyed telescopes thousand dollar toilet seats even our space launch vehicles hearken only of that past great time they are and seem destined to remain gen schriever s icbms i find it hard to swell with pride that the best new space lifter idea is to refurbish old minuteman and poseidon ballistic missiles well the pessimists are wrong the legacy is continuing this event is proof to our technological parents we ve listened to your stories we ve caught your enthusiasm and can do spirit and we ve learned from your achievements and your mistakes let me honor one of you who was part of that history and the impetus behind this history max hunter you are one of the greatest engineers of the firts great age of space exploration your insight and discipline built the thor icbm later incorporated into today s most successful launch vehicle the delta you told us in the s that a new form of launch vehicle a single stage reusable rocket can and should be built you advocated this idea tirelessly it was elegantly simple as are all great breakthroughs you showed us how to build it you convinced us it could be done you are working by our side to weld its components into place most important you reminded us of a prime engineering principle undoubtably one you learned from the generation before you the generation that built transcontinental aviation in the s and s build a little and test a little and max you passed all of this on to people like pat ladner who started this program for the sdi douglas aircraft didn t start with a dc they didn t even start with a dc our grandfathers built a little tested a little even sold a little and made a little money before they moved on to the next step they didn t take a decade or more before putting the first rubber on the road max hunter you didn t take ten years to build thor and by god we re not going to take ten years to show that low cost single stage reusable aerospace transportation is real we ended the cold war in a few short years it took the same team here today but a few years to show through the strategic defense initiative that the cold war must end we you and us launched a series of satellites the delta experiments in about a year apiece this more than anything else signaled our commitment to end the impasse between ourselves and the soviet union those who made the decisions on both sides have underscored the importance of our work in bringing about a new international relationship but it is the same team which is now putting in place the framework for an aerospace expansion that is our legacy for the next generation we will make space access routine and affordable we built this magnificent flying machine in two years this summer a true rocket ship will take off and land on earth for the first time then we can and surely will build in the next three years a reusable sub orbital rocket it will allow us to use space rapidly affordably and efficiently as no other nation can and yes we ll make a little money off it too then and only then we ll spend another three years to build a fully reusable single stage to orbit system the dc of space will be a reality we may even be able to use some of the rocket propulsion breakthroughs of our former cold war adversaries what a wonderful irony if this sdi product and russian efforts to counter sdi merge to power mankind s next step to the stars to be sure we must guard against the temptations to leap to the final answer robert goddard s first rockets weren t saturn v s if we succumb to the temptation to ask for just a few extra dollars and a few more years to jump immediately to a full orbital system we will fail max hunter and his colleagues showed the way three years and a cloud of dust in our case rocket exhausts there is no short cut if we expect to reshape the world again we must do it one brick at a time minds on tasks at hand this project is real the torch of american technological greatness is being passed we are americans this machine is american let s go fly it
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u s space foundation speech speech by pete worden delivered before the u s space foundation conference colorado springs colorado april what a delightful opportunity to cause some trouble for providing me this forum i would sincerely like to thank the u s space foundation my topic today is the single stage rocket technology rocket or ssrt by i intend to speak of more how to lower the cost and make rapid progress ssrt is to my mind and i hope to convince you the erupting a new rallying cry for our generation in space faster cheaper and better faster cheaper better and ssrt represent the passing of a torch from one technical generation to another it is a new thing to be sure but it is also a relearning of old things from past masters when we rolled out the ssrt baby two weeks ago so called experts told us it violates the laws of physics it made no sense for example dr eberhart rachtin former president of the aerospace corp said of ssrt in the l a times that it defies the best principles of launching payloads into space well dr rachtin you ve made us mad what are these principles that ssrt defies well i ll tell you it violates the principle that you need a giant program office to build space hardware it violates the fact that it takes years to build something new and it violates the truism that you cant do anything significant for less than many billions of dollars it took some of the last generation s experts to teach us some new old lessons werhner von braun s first rocket was not a saturn v general schriever s icbm s didn t take ten years to demonstrate and the x airplane didn t cost billion it took one of the great engineers of the s to remind us of these truths max hunter max to remind you was a senior engineer in the thor irbm program and old faster better cheaper success story max has been persistent in a vision of a single stage reusable space launch system since the s because he knew it had to be done in affordable steps build a little test a little next he persuaded us to do a technology demonstration we didn t solicit a bunch of requirements they d just change every few years anyway not included in the speech the als nls has such ephemeral requirements that it would better known as shape shifter than space lifter we didn t spend a lot money this x rocket only cost million when s the last time we even built a new airplane for that and it didn t take a lot of time to build mcdonnell douglas completed it in months finally the government program office consisted of one very over worked air force major motivated in part by the threat that he d get to ride on it in a strapped on lawn chair if it ran over cost or schedule as i described what ssrt is and isn t keep in mind its only a first step there are several more steps and steps that can easily fail before the u s can field an ssto but each step should follow the same principles a small management team a few years technology demonstration and a modest budget let me show a few details on ssrt and how it might evolve see charts i m embarrassed when my generation is compared with the last generation the giants of the last great space era the s and s they went to the moon we built a telescope that can t see straight they soft landed on mars the least we could do is soft land on earth but we do have an answer we can follow their build a little test a little philosophy to produce a truly affordable and routine access to space i know there are nay sayers among you those who say ssrt is a stunt it needs more thermal protection the engines are wrong it would be better to land horizontally etc etc i say to you we ll see you at white sands in june you bring your view graphs and i ll bring my rocketship if we do what we say we can do then you let us do the next step not included in the speech if we fail you still have your program offices staff summary sheets requirement analyses and decade long programs i bet on my generation and max hunter s idea any takers
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re commercial mining activities on the moon in article r j inn j mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu writes in article steinly apr topaz ucsc edu steinly topaz ucsc edu steinn sigurdsson writes very cost effective if you use the right accounting method sherzer methodology let it never be said that an opportunity was missed to put someone down
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re proton centaur well thank you dennis for your as usual highly detailed and informative posting the question i have about the proton is could it be handled at one of ksc s spare pads without major malfunction or could it be handled at kourou or vandenberg now if it uses storables then how long would it take for the russians to equip something at cape york if proton were launched from a western site how would it compare to the t centaur as i see it it should lift very close to the t pat
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re crazy or just imaginitive in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes unfortunately h beam piper killed him self just weeks short of having his first book published and have his ideas see light such a waste piper lived in my town williamsport pa when he killed himself it was in the early s he had had more than a few books published by that time but he was down on his luck financially rumor was that he was hunting urban pigeons with birdshot for food he viewed himself as a resourceful man and imo decided to check out gracefully if he couldn t support himself the worst part is that john campbell the long time editor of astounding analog sf magazine had cut a check for piper s most recent story and said check was in the mail if campbell had known piper s straits i m sure he would have phoned to say hang on campbell was like that i wish it had happened differently i always enjoyed piper s stuff doug loss
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re comet in temporary orbit around jupiter msb sq sq com mark brader writes thanks again one final question the name gehrels wasn t known to me before this thread came up but the may issue of scientific american has an article about the inconstant cosmos with a photo of neil gehrels project scientist for nasa s compton gamma ray observatory same person no i estimate a probability the gehrels referred to is thomas gehrels of the spacewatch project kitt peak observatory maybe in the th century they could do gamma ray spectroscopy on distant asteroids with an orbiting observatory but here in the primitive th we have to send a probe there to get gamma ray spectroscopy done mark brader softquad inc toronto information we want information utzoo sq msb msb sq com the prisoner you have the info on mayan television yet this article is in the public domain phil fraering seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff pgf srl cacs usl edu like how the ancient mayans had televison repo man
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re why not give billion to first year long moon residents you forget that apollo was a government program and had to start relatively from scratch some people at nasa think that this could work one of them replied to me personally after i posted this original message several days ago i have heard jerry pournelle suggest this idea before gene theporch raider net gene wright theporch raider net the macinteresteds of nashville
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re vandalizing the sky hoover mathematik uni bielefeld de uwe schuerkamp writes in article c t k db research canon oz au enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes hideous vision of the future observers were startled this spring when a nasa launch vehicle arrived at the pad with schwarzenegger painted in huge block letters on the this is ok in my opinion as long as the stuff returns to earth what do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize the night sky it is not even april anymore if this turns out to be true it s time to get seriously active in terrorism this is unbelievable who do those people think they are selling every bit that promises to make money i guess we really deserve being wiped out by uv radiation folks stupidity wins i guess that s true and if only by pure numbers another depressed planetary citizen hoover this isn t inherently bad this isn t really light pollution since it will only be visible shortly before or after dusk or during the day of course if night only lasts hours for you you re probably going to be inconvienenced but you re inconvienenced anyway in that case finally this isn t the bronze age and most of us aren t indo european those people speaking indo eurpoean languages often have much non indo european ancestry and cultural background so please try to remember that there are more human activities than those practiced by the warrior caste the farming caste and the priesthood and why act distressed that someone s found a way to do research that doesn t involve socialism it certianly doesn t mean we deserve to die phil fraering seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff pgf srl cacs usl edu like how the ancient mayans had televison repo man
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re boom whoosh in article apr mnemosyne cs du edu wdwells nyx cs du edu david fuzzy wells writes i love the idea of an inflatable mile long sign it will be a really neat thing to see it explode when a bolt or even better a westford needle comes crashing into it at clicks a sec pageos and two echo balloons were inflated with a substance which expanded in vacuum once inflated the substance was no longer needed since there is nothing to cause the balloon to collapse this inflatable structure could suffer multiple holes with no disastrous deflation bruce watson wats scicom alphacdc com bulletin item extract
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re first spacewalk in article c sumg rf cs cmu edu flb flb optiplan fi f baube tm writes at one time there was speculation that the first spacewalk alexei leonov was a staged fake has any evidence to support or contradict this claim emerged was this claim perhaps another fevered cold war hallucination i for one would be an avid reader of a sci space ussr what really happened bruce watson wats scicom alphacdc com bulletin item extract
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planets still images orbit by ether twist ether implodes earth core is gravity this paper both describes how heavenly bodys can be stationary ether sucking structures and why we observe orbital motion ether the theoretical propogation media of electro magnetic waves was concluded not to exist based on the results of the michelson moreley experiment conducted a century ago i propose that those conclusions are flawed based on the fact that the experiment was designed to look for a flow parallel to the earth s surface not perpindicular due to the prevailing assumption that the earth traveled through the ether as a ball through the wind the reversal of the that conclusion a pivotal keystone in the development of modern scientific thought could have ramifications of biblical proportions through out the world remember einstien said imagination is greater than knowledge i dream like this ether based reality the ether is like a fluid out of phase with our reality creations start as a lattice placed into the ether given a spin the lattices both drag the fluid like a margarita blender and ingest it converting it distilling localized mass time and energy non spinning lattice dark matter the earth isn t exactly spinning around the sun picture an image of a galaxy we haven t any videos of them spinning picture us being stationary and the sun s image being dragged across the sky by the spinning ether field picture an onion each layer of which is spinning a little faster than the next a thread shot at the inner kernel would be stretched diagonally sideways its head being in a faster shell than its tail until it finally intersected the ground of the inner kernel its direction vector being straight down but its foot print being a line not a point sunrise sunset the moon isn t exactly orbiting us it is a parasite non self spin sustaining being dragged in the earth s ether field which is itself in the sun s much more powerful field our seasons are the wobble of earth s axis like a top slowing down the orbit of the earth around the sun is all of the stars images being dragged around by the sun s ether feild the earth moon and sun are about the same size and distance apart its just that the time between them varies greatly because the path is not the same the moon s lattice in the ether is like sticking a fork in a plate of spaghetti and giving the plate a half turn the sun s lattice has so much spin that its like the fork has got the whole plate of noodles wound up the piece of light going to the moon can slide down the spaghetti and maybe make a j hook at the end the piece of light going to the sun has to go around the whole plate like a needle in a record before it gets there with a pencil compass and rule draw a diagram of how the moon can be about as big as earth s shadow upon it and at other times totally eclipse the sun look in the sky except for your knowledge would you guess that they are about the same size just because they look about the same size o e o o o s e m or m s the full moon quarter moon etc is the difference between rate of ether spins what we are looking at is a rotating turntable view of the moon only half of which is facing the sun i ve seen a half moon within about degrees of sky of the sun during the day try and draw that earth shadow its only the moon s image which appears to orbit us no matter where it is the light part is the part facing the sun and the dark part is the half facing away from the sun even when it appears to be behind us light years between galaxies is a misnomer the distance is closer to zero as time and matter are characteristics of this phase of reality which dissipates outward with each layer of the onion defining edge ether spin what we are seeing could be essentially happening now the piece of light may have experienced many years but the trip could be very quick our time to time travel or warp space i might consider learning to de spin myself phase out my mass good luck trying to design a propulsion system to drag around a space time locality its like trying to move a balloon by shooting a squirt gun from within to find out about all of this i recommend studying history i d look in the book of life or holy grail etc brain waves just might carry decipherable data i d start looking on some part of the spectra said to be unusable due to all the background noise billion humans i d totally isolate myself record me thinking dog backwards and learn to read what i got microsoft holy grail card for pentium next concluding that my thoughts were recorded on a non time bound media the ether and that it is i who move forward in time i would try to temporarily locally reverse the flow of time which i d start looking for as flowing opposite magnetism pole to pole why not perhaps by passing a large flat dc current through a two foot diameter coil or choke or something and seeing what i could get with my machine s receiver next to it if you don t think you ll live to see it consider this quit putting the reproductive keys of other life in your body all of life s data could be written on the wind ether not just our thoughts dna could be a little receiver or file access code by eating seeds we could be jamming our reception or receiving plant instructions try eating seed bearing fruit maybe those greek or biblical guys did live hundreds of years i m curios to see what they did and ate don t worry if your hair stops growing maybe we don t need to eat at all the cosmos are formed from nothing and that is creating matter i only need enough to bounce around where did the household concept immortal come from wheat is a weed it is programmed to pull from the soil reproduce like hell and then die warning about writing to the past i had a little dream of being in a world in the near parallel future lying along a path of history which we have diverged from there were twelve telepathic glowing beings who looked like an oscar award and who had always been a dark one who looked like us and then myself the dark one was in the process of making the others into gods he had to teach them what that meant by advising them in their past basically he manipulated them into reproducing and raising their children on his seed he said that the little ones who looked different were a sub species meant to provide service he carefully combed through history rewriting it in his favor pulling like a weed anything that compromised his control he enticed recruits by sending them his visions saying that there was immortality at the end of the road for only twelve souls kill or be killed the amount of control he could exert was finite though as at every change he made a void would appear in our reality the universe one day ended meters from us it seemed odd but we couldn t remember how else it should be then some of the twelve were no more finally when he could prune no more and reality stopped just beyond his fingertips he stepped through his portal to the past to bask over and over in all that he had created i made a few more changes and lost my body existing only on the wind moral its very possible to eliminate from your reality the souls whose will s are not in harmony with yours golden rule treat others as you wish to be treated i e you could end up along a lonely thread of time with murderers or flowery brown nosers for playmates its not eternal there s more than one way back accepting rides to the past once here the one who looks like us sells rides he can make you a prince or a queen or you can live as a god in ancient greece go ahead repeat the third grade as often as you like adam henry i hope you like inspecting your socks careful though if he likes your work but thinks you re getting wise he can direct you to cross paths with your old self and you ll vanish as you rewrite your own course of history none the wiser as we pass the point along the parallel line where he stepped back in time his hierarchy will lose its direction he can still make changes while he s here its just that that is work and with every adjustment this becomes less the world he cultivated which loosens his grip and his organization is suddenly one branch less but he can t see the change the basic nature of man is good he had to apply his hand to achieve his world as he now tightens his hand to retain what he built the more sand slips through his fingers how about public computer access to the i r s its our country our money and they re spending it on us right imagine this washington marks the next cost at irs collects gives to congress and just absolutely buries congress borrows the banks are making what a margin interest on our government big corporations are ecstatic if they can do a margin what do the banks do with it hold some on a carrot to the world sure but mostly bury it why food production is gnp construction hours to build your auto the people are spending all of their time to buy back a tenth of what they produce have we been deceived if we are more efficient why is it getting harder to get by what if the point is just to keep the people busy making widgets in that other reality i shouted to the twelve its chaos they said no its order he defined chaos as that which is he was not able to control rain forest the problem could be that all the water in its canopy would hide the location of an indigenous people who have no language telepathic and vanishing the closest knowledge of death think of the spine as a transceiver if it is on the ground and pointed up you can locate it from above these people are probably naive as children but very very tough to kill also they should be able to tell you stories about the dark one that i talk about they can hear him i think that ham and world band radio old timers might have a story to tell on this these people would be on a different frequency than us as they aren t eating seeds famine relief when i make my diet almost all whole wheat i get a huge belly lose muscle mass sleep a lot and get sick when i eat only fresh fruit i get more energy a hollywood flat belly and need a lot less sleep un peace keeping there is fighting and killing all over the troops go in when there is no bread on the shelf its ok to kill each other just make sure there is enough to eat somalia what is disturbing is energetic gun carrying three foot tall sixteen year olds who eat nothing but some roots that they suck on it is not so much that their growth is stunted it is that they aren t dying at a rate of of years per life women with children babes in arms historical references to women and children as a single unit could mean that infants were not cut from the umbilical cord and hence were not breast fed i think that there may be some very interesting results to this such as mother child telepathy and blue blooded infants there are examples of this practice in the aquatic mammal kingdom to investigate that guy is the master of illusion and the ultimate liar he tells it first and then just follows the thread of time in which the people are willing to buy it in which he can make it so he ll play a poker face up until he thinks he s cornered and then he ll whine beg and grovel all it means to him is that you re willing to live on the ground work that he has laid that is that he was right and he didn t over play his hand and he won t need to go back and try another thread of time you have ultimate control over your destiny just don t live along a path that leads to a reality in which you don t want to be a part of i don t claim to be the first to think these things its just that the others could have been pruned from our path maybe these thoughts given to me were laid down on the track of time after him
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re eco freaks forcing space mining in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes here is a way to get the commericial companies into space and mineral exploration basically get the eci freaks to make it so hard to get the minerals on earth you think this is crazy well in a way it is but in a way it is reality there is a billin the congress to do just that basically to make it so expensive to mine minerals in the us unless you can by off the inspectors or tax collectors ascially what i understand from talking to a few miner friends of mine that they the congress propose to have a tax on the gross income of the mine versus the adjusted income also the state governments have there normal taxes so by the time you get done paying for materials workers and other expenses you can owe more than what you made basically if you make a and spend ofor expenses you can owe in federal taxes bascially it is driving the miners off the land and the only peopel who benefit are the eco freaks basically to get back to my beginning statement is space is the way to go cause it might just get to expensive to mine on earth because of either the eco freaks or the protectionist such fun we have in these interesting times michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked the current mining regulations and fees were set in the s what the so called eco freaks want to do is to simply bring those fees in line with current economic reality currently mining companies can get access to minerals on public lands for ridiculously low prices something like the mining lobby has for decades managed to block any reform of these outdated fees in fact the latest attempt to reform them was again blocked president clinton compromised by taking the mining fee reforms out of his budget and plans to draft separate legislation to fight that battle if you want to discuss this further i suggest you take this to talk environment g patrick molloy huntsville alabama
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re comet in temporary orbit around jupiter in article apr sq sq com msb sq sq com mark brader writes also peri jove s of gehrels were april jupiter radii august jupiter radii where jupiter radius km mi au sorry perijoves i m not used to talking this language thanks again one final question the name gehrels wasn t known to me before this thread came up but the may issue of scientific american has an article about the inconstant cosmos with a photo of neil gehrels project scientist for nasa s compton gamma ray observatory same person neil gehrels is prof tom gehrels son tom gehrels was the discoverer of p gehrels as well as about other comets the latest of which does not bear his name but rather the name spacewatch since he was observing with that system when he found the latest comet mark brader softquad inc toronto information we want information utzoo sq msb msb sq com the prisoner jim scotti jscotti lpl arizona edu lunar planetary laboratory university of arizona tucson az usa
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts this discussion is better followed in talk politics space joseph cain cain geomag gly fsu edu cain fsu bitnet scri cain fax or
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re moonbase race nasa resources why in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes so how much would it cost as a private venture assuming you could talk the u s government into leasing you a couple of pads in florida why must it be a us government space launch pad directly i mean in fact you probably want to avoid us government anything for such a project the pricetag is invariably too high either in money or in hassles the important thing to realize here is that the big cost of getting to the moon is getting into low earth orbit everything else is practically down in the noise the only part of getting to the moon that poses any new problems beyond what you face in low orbit is the last km the actual landing and that is not immensely difficult of course you can spend sagadollars saga is the metric prefix for beelyuns and beelyuns on things other than the launches but you don t have to the major component of any realistic plan to go to the moon cheaply for more than a brief visit at least is low cost transport to earth orbit for what it costs to launch one shuttle or two titan ivs you can develop a new launch system that will be considerably cheaper delta clipper might be a bit more expensive than this perhaps but there are less ambitious ways of bringing costs down quite a bit any plan for doing sustained lunar exploration using existing launch systems is wasting money in a big way given this questions like whose launch facilities you use are not a minor detail they are very important to the cost of the launches which dominates the cost of the project all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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re surviving large accelerations in article efpx ws uh qaop s andrew cmu edu amruth laxman al andrew cmu edu writes here s my question finally are g accelerations in fact humanly tolerable with the aid of any mechanical devices of course if these are possible what is used to absorb the acceleration this sounds a bit high to me still higher accelerations have been endured very briefly during violent deceleration if we re talking sustained acceleration i think odd gees has been demonstrated using water immersion i doubt that any of this generalizes to another order of magnitude all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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re sunrise sunset times a related question which i haven t given that much serious thought to at what lattitude is the average length of the day averaged over the whole year maximized is this function a constant hours is it truly symmetric about the equator or is there some discrepancy due to the fact that the orbit is elliptic or maybe the difference is enough to change the temperature and make the seasons in the southern hemisphere more bitter but is far too small to make a sizeable difference in daylight hours i want to know where to move nick firoozye nick sfb iam uni bonn de
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re sunrise sunset times in article apr cbis ece drexel edu jpw cbis ece drexel edu joseph wetstein writes hello i am looking for a program or algorithm that can be used to compute sunrise and sunset times here is a computation i did a long time ago that computes the length of the daylight you should be able to convert the information here to sunrise and sunset times rouben rostamian telephone department of mathematics and statistics e mail university of maryland baltimore county bitnet rostamian umbc bitnet baltimore md usa internet rouben math umbc edu definitions z the tilt of the axis of the planet away from the normal to its orbital plane in case of the earth z is about degrees i think i do not recall the exact value in case of uranus z is almost degrees u latitude of the location where the length of the day is measured paris is at about degrees north pole is at a angular position of the planet around the sun as a goes from to degrees the planet makes a full circle around the sun the spring equinox occurs at a l daylight fraction duration of daylight duration of a full day on the equator u l is always near the north pole u degrees l is sometimes one and sometimes zero depending on the time of the year computation define the auxiliary angles p and q by sin p sin a sin z cos q h tan u tan p q degrees conclusion l q if q is measured in degrees l q pi if q is measured in radians wait but what is h the cutoff function h is defined as follows h s s if s if s if s as an interesting exercise plot l versus a the graph will shows how the length of the daylight varies with the time of the year experiment with various choices of latitudes and tilt angles compare the behavior of the function at locations above and below the arctic circle rouben rostamian telephone department of mathematics and statistics e mail university of maryland baltimore county bitnet rostamian umbc bitnet baltimore md usa internet rouben math umbc edu
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re help i need some addresses in apr ncsu edu jmcocker eos ncsu edu mitch writes i m trying to get mailing addresses for the following companies specifically i need addresses for their personnel offices or like bureau the companies are space industries inc somewhere in houston courageous dr leage city tx phone good luck doug doug egan it s not what you got lockheed engineering and sciences co it s what you give houston tx tesla email egan blkbox com
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes prb access digex com pat pontificated i heard once that the voyagers had a failsafe routine built in that essentially says if you never hear from earth again here s what to do this was a back up in the event a receiver burnt out but the probe could still send data limited but still some data voyager has the unusual luck to be on a stable trajectory out of the solar system all it s doing is collecting fields data and routinely squirting it down one of the mariners is also in stable solar orbit and still providing similiar solar data something in a planetary orbit is subject to much more complex forces comsats in stable geosynch orbits require almost daily stationkeeping operations for the occasional deep space bird like pff after pluto sure it could be left on auto pilot but things like galileo or magellan i d suspect they need enough housekeeping that even untended they d end up unusable after a while the better question should be why not transfer o m of all birds to a separate agency with continous funding to support these kind of ongoing science missions pat when ongoing ops are mentioned it seems to always quote operations and data analysis how much would it cost to collect the data and let it be analyzed whenever kinda like all that landsat data that sat around for years before someone analyzed it for the ozone hole even if you let teh bird drift it may get hosed by some cosmic phenomena since this would be a shutdown that may never be refunded for startup if some type of cosmic bem took out the probe it might not be such a big loss obviously you can t plan for everything but the most obvious things can be considered james t green jgreen oboe calpoly edu i know you believe you understand what it is that you think i said but i am not sure that you realize that what i said is not what i meant
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re eco freaks forcing space mining besides this was the same line of horse puckey the mining companies claimed when they were told to pay for restoring land after strip mining they still mine coal in the midwest but now it doesn t look like the moon when theyare done pat
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why dc will be the way of the future i once read an article on computer technology which stated that every new computer technology was actually lower and slower then what it replaced silicon was less effective then the germanium products then available gaas was less capable then silicon multi processors were slower then existent single processors what the argument was though was that these new technologies promised either theoretically future higher performance or lower cost or higher densities i think that the dc may g fit into this same model elv s can certainly launch more weight then a ssrt but an ssrt offers the prospect of greater cycle times and lower costs this is kind of a speculative posting but i thought i d throw it out as a hjistorical framework for those interested in the project pat
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts in article r aqr dnv access digex net prb access digex com pat writes the better question should be why not transfer o m of all birds to a separate agency with continous funding to support these kind of ongoing science missions since we don t have the money to keep them going now how will changing them to a seperate agency help anything greg hennessy university of virginia usps mail astronomy department charlottesville va usa internet gsh w virginia edu uucp uunet virginia gsh w
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dc x choice of a new generation was re ssrt roll out speech in article r uos jid access digex net jkatz access digex com jordan katz writes speech delivered by col simon p worden the deputy for technology sdio most of you as am i are children of the s we grew up in an age of miracles inter continental ballistic missiles nuclear energy computers flights to the moon but these were miracles of our parent s doing speech by pete worden delivered before the u s space foundation conference i m embarrassed when my generation is compared with the last generation the giants of the last great space era the s and s they went to the moon we built a telescope that can t see straight they soft landed on mars the least we could do is soft land on earth just out of curiousity how old is worden brian yamauchi case western reserve university yamauchi alpha ces cwru edu department of computer engineering and science
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re eco freaks forcing space mining in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes here is a way to get the commericial companies into space and mineral exploration basically get the eci freaks to make it so hard to get the minerals on earth if raw materials where to cost enough that getting them from space would be cost effective then the entire world economy would colapse long before the space mines could be built allen lady astor sir if you were my husband i would poison your coffee w churchill madam if you were my wife i would drink it days to first flight of dcx
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dc x dc y hi guys i ve been hearing lots of talk on the net about dc x and dc y but none of the many posts actually explain what they are sorry if this is a faq but would somebody please explain to me what they are reply by email please thanks andy ajjb adam bnsc rl ac uk andy jonathan j broderick i have come that they might have rutherford lab uk life and have it to the full mail ajjb adam bnsc rl ac uk jesus christ
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re why dc will be the way of the future hmmm i seem to recall that the attraction of solid state record players and radios in the s wasn t better performance but lower per unit cost than vacuum tube systems mind you my father was a vacuum tube fan in the s switched to solid state in the mid seventies and then abruptly died no doubt there s a lesson in that and his account could have been biased james nicoll
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re vandalizing the sky in article apr locus com todd phad la locus com todd johnson writes as for advertising sure why not a nasa friend and i spent one drunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we d need to put the golden arches of a certain american fast food organization on the face of the moon fortunately we sobered up in the morning hmmm it actually isn t all that much is it like about million km if you think that sounds like a lot it s only a few tens of m per burger that said organization sold last year you d be best off with a reflective substance that could be sprayed thinly by an unmanned craft in lunar orbit or rather a large set of such craft if you can get a reasonable albedo it would be visible even at new moon since the moon itself is quite dark and bright at full moon you might have to abandon the colour though buy a cheap launch system design reusable moon lunar orbit unmanned spraying craft build said craft establish a lunar base to extract tio say for colour you d be better off with a sulphur compound i suppose and some sort of propellant and bob s your uncle i ll do it for say billion dollars plus changes of identity for me and all my loved ones delivery date can we get the fast food chain bidding against the fizzy drink vendors who else might be interested would they buy it given that it s a lot more expensive and not much more impressive than putting a large set of several km inflatable billboards in leo or in geo visible hours from your key growth market i ll do that for only bn and the changes of identity nick haines nickh cmu edu
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new planet kuiper object found tonigth a tv journal here in brasil announced that an object beyond pluto s orbit was found by an observatory at hawaii they named the object karla the program said the object wasn t a gaseous giant planet and should be composed by rocks and ices can someone confirm these information could this object be a new planet or a kuiper object thanks in advance francisco the stars francisco da fonseca rodrigues o o o o o cotuca colegio tecnico da unicamp o brasil o o o depto de processamento de dados o o o o cps o o o o internet chico ccsun unicamp br o o o cotuca ccvax unicamp br o fone fax o o campinas sp brasil o o like dust
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golden space ages pat sez oddly enough the smithsonian calls the lindbergh years the golden age of flight i would call it the granite years reflecting the primitive nature of it it was romantic swashbuckling daredevils those daring young men in their flying machines but in reality it sucked death was a highly likely occurence and the environment blew yeah but a windscreen cut down most of it canopies ended it completely of course the environment in space continues to suck tommy mac tom mcwilliams wk as the radius of vision increases tm ibm cl msu edu hm the circumference of mystery grows
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message from space digest press release no paris april users of esa s olympus satellite report on the outcome of their experiments today europe s space telecommunications sector would not be blossoming as it now does had olympus not provided a testbed for the technologies and services of the s this summarises the general conclusions of speakers and participants at the conference on olympus utilisation held in seville on april the conference was organised by the european space agency esa and the spanish centre for the development of industrial technology cdti olympus has been particularly useful in bringing satellite telecommunications to thousands of new users thanks to satellite terminals with very small antennas vsats olympus experiments have tested data transmission videoconferencing business television distance teaching and rural telephony to give but a few examples in opening the door to new telecommunications services which could not be accommodated on the crowded lower frequency bands olympus was the first satellite over europe to offer capacity in the ghz band in establishing two way data relay links olympus received for the first time in europe over several months high volume data from a low earth orbiting spacecraft and then distributed it to various centres in europe when olympus was launched on july it was the world s largest telecommunications satellite and no other satellite has yet equalled its versatility in combining four different payloads in a wide variety of frequency bands olympus users range from individual experimenters to some of the world s largest businesses access to the satellite is given in order to test new telecommunications techniques or services over the past four years some companies and organisations made use of this opportunity as well as over members of the eurostep distance learning organisation as the new technologies and services tested by these olympus users enter the commercial market they then make use of operational satellites such as those of eutelsat olympus utilisation will continue through and when the spacecraft will run out of fuel as it approaches the end of its design life
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re why not give billion to first year long moon residents in article qve kinnpas sal sun usc edu schaefer sal sun usc edu peter schaefer writes in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes in article zv b w w theporch raider net gene theporch raider net gene wright writes with the continuin talk about the end of the space age and complaints by government over the large cost why not try something i read about that might just work announce that a reward of billion would go to the first corporation who successfully keeps at least person alive on the moon for a year then you d see some of the inexpensive but not popular technologies begin to be developed there d be a different kind of space race then gene theporch raider net gene wright theporch raider net the macinteresteds of nashville if that were true i d go for it i have a few friends who we could pool our resources and do it maybe make it a prize kind of liek the solar car race in australia anybody game for a contest michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked oh gee a billion dollars that d be just about enough to cover the cost of the feasability study happy happy joy joy feasability study what a wimp while you are studying others would be doing too damn many engineers doing way too little engineering he who sits on his arse sits on his fortune sir richard francis burton dillon pyron the opinions expressed are those of the ti dseg lewisville vax support sender unless otherwise stated when i m here when i m home texans vote no on robin hood we need pyron skndiv dseg ti com solutions not gestures padi dm
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re shuttle oxygen was budget astronaut in article qn gq access digex net prb access digex com pat writes i thought that under emergency conditions the sts can put down at any good size airport if it could take a c or a then it can take an orbiter you just need a vor tac i don t know if they need ils dfw was designed with the sts in mind which really mean very little much of their early pr material had scenes with a shuttle landing and two or three others pulled up to gates i guess they were trying to stress how advanced the airport was for dallas types imagine the fit grapevine and irving would be having if the shuttle was landing at dfw for the rest they are currently having some power struggles between the airport and surrounding cities dillon pyron the opinions expressed are those of the ti dseg lewisville vax support sender unless otherwise stated when i m here when i m home texans vote no on robin hood we need pyron skndiv dseg ti com solutions not gestures padi dm
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re proton centaur dennisn ecs comm mot com dennis newkirk writes the centaur is controlled technology state dept will not allow it to be used outside of us sorry in article apr zeus calpoly edu jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes has anyone looked into the possiblity of a proton centaur combo what would be the benefits and problems with such a combo other than the obvious instability in the xssr now i haven t seen any speculation about it but the salyut kb design bureau was planning a new lh lox second stage for the proton which would boost payload to leo from about to kg geostationary goes from kg gals launcher version to kg this scheme was competing with the energia m last year and i haven t heard which won except now i recently read that the central specialized kb was working on the successor to the soyuz booster which must be the energia m so the early results are energia m won but this is a guess nothing is very clear in russia i m sure if salyut kb gets funds from someone they will continue their development the centaur for the altas is about meters dia and the proton is so that s a good fit for their existing upper stage the block d which sets inside a shround just under meters dia i don t know about launch loads etc but since the centaur survives titan launches which are probably worse than the proton those titan srb s probably shake things up pretty good it seems feasible except the centaur is a very fragile thing and may require integration on the pad which is not available now protons are assembled and transported horizontially does anyone know how much stress in the way of a payload a centaur could support while bolted to a proton horizontally and then taken down the rail road track and erected on the pad they would also need lox and lh facilities added to the proton pads unless the new proton second stage is actually built and of course any centaur support systems and facilities no doubt imported from the us at great cost these systems may viloate us law so there are political problems to solve in addition to the instabilities in the cis you mention dennis newkirk dennisn ecs comm mot com motorola land mobile products sector schaumburg il
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re planets still images orbit by ether twist the only ether i see here is the stuff you must have been breathing before you posted phil fraering seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff pgf srl cacs usl edu like how the ancient mayans had televison repo man
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re commercial mining activities on the moon in article steinly apr topaz ucsc edu steinly topaz ucsc edu steinn sigurdsson writes seriously though if you were to ask the british government whether their colonisation efforts in the americas were cost effective what answer do you think you d get what if you asked in and respectively what do you mean are you saying they thought the effort was profitable or that the money was efficiently spent providing max value per money spent i think they would answer yes on ballance to both questions exceptions would be places like the us from the french indian war to the end of the us revolution but even after the colonies revolted or where given independance the british engaged in very lucrative trading with the former colonies five years after the american revolution england was still the largest us trading partner allen lady astor sir if you were my husband i would poison your coffee w churchill madam if you were my wife i would drink it days to first flight of dcx
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re boom whoosh in article scicom alphacdc com wats scicom alphacdc com bruce watson writes pageos and two echo balloons were inflated with a substance which expanded in vacuum called gas once inflated the substance was no longer needed since there is nothing to cause the balloon to collapse this inflatable structure could suffer multiple holes with no disastrous deflation the balloons were in sufficiently low orbit that they experienced some air resistance when they were finally punctured this preasure and the internal preasure that was needed to maintain a spherical shape against this resistance caused them to catastrophically deflated the large silvered shards that remained were easily visible for some time before reentry though no longer useful as a passive transponder the billboard should pop like a dime store balloon
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re why not give billion to first year long moon residents in apr iti org aws iti org allen w sherzer writes depends if you assume the existance of a working ssto like dc on billion would be enough to put about a quarter million pounds of stuff on the moon if some of that mass went to send equipment to make lox for the transfer vehicle you could send a lot more either way its a lot more than needed this prize isn t big enough to warrent developing a ssto but it is enough to do it if the vehicle exists but allen if you can assume the existence of an ssto there is no need to have the contest in the first place i would think that what we want to get out of the contest is the development of some of these cheaper ways of doing things if they already exist why flush g just to get someone to go to the moon for a year insisting on perfect safety is for people who don t have the balls to live in the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg ti com i don t speak for others and they don t speak for me
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re moonbase race in article r o inn j mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu writes in article c teik z zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes apollo was done the hard way in a big hurry from a very limited technology base and on government contracts just doing it privately rather than as a government project cuts costs by a factor of several so how much would it cost as a private venture assuming you could talk the u s government into leasing you a couple of pads in florida why use a ground launch pad it is entirely posible to launch from altitude this was what the shuttle was originally intended to do it might be seriously cheaper also what about bio engineered co absorbing plants instead of many lox bottles stick em in a lunar cave and put an airlock on the door marvin batty djf uk ac cov cck and they shall not find those things with a sort of rafia like base that their fathers put there just the night before at about o clock
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re sunrise sunset times jpw cbis ece drexel edu joseph wetstein writes hello i am looking for a program or algorithm that can be used to compute sunrise and sunset times would you mind posting the responses you get i am also interested and there may be others thanks n shirlene pearson pearson titan tsd arlut utexas edu
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re level in c ubn tz zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes in article apr mksol dseg ti com mccall mksol dseg ti com fred j mccall writes given that i ve heard the shuttle software rated as level level out of how many also keep in mind that it was not achieved through the use of sophisticated tools but rather through a brute force and ignorance attack on the problem during the challenger standdown they simply threw hundreds of people at it and did the whole process by hand i think this is a little inaccurate based on feynman s account of the software development process before the standdown fred is basically correct no sophisticated tools just a lot of effort and painstaking care but they got this one right before challenger feynman cited the software people as exemplary compared to the engine people he also noted that the software people were starting to feel management pressure to cut corners but hadn t had to give in to it much yet among other things the software people worked very hard to get things right for the major pre flight simulations and considered a failure during those simulations to be nearly as bad as an in flight failure as a result the number of major simulation failures could be counted on one hand and the number of in flight failures was zero as fred mentioned elsewhere this applies only to the flight software software that runs experiments is typically mostly put together by the experimenters and gets nowhere near the same level of tender loving care none of the experimenters could afford it all work is one man s work henry spencer u of toronto zoology kipling henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry news software ureply x x from wingert vnet ibm com bret wingert c ubn tz zoo toronto edu in c ubn tz zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes in article apr mksol dseg ti com mccall mksol dseg ti com fred j mccall writes given that i ve heard the shuttle software rated as level level out of how many also keep in mind that it was not achieved through the use of sophisticated tools but rather through a brute force and ignorance attack on the problem during the challenger standdown they simply threw hundreds of people at it and did the whole process by hand i think this is a little inaccurate based on feynman s account of the software development process before the standdown fred is basically correct no sophisticated tools just a lot of effort and painstaking care but they got this one right before challenger feynman cited the software people as exemplary compared to the engine people he also noted that the software people were starting to feel management pressure to cut corners but hadn t had to give in to it much yet as fred mentioned elsewhere this applies only to the flight software software that runs experiments is typically mostly put together by the experimenters and gets nowhere near the same level of tender loving care a couple of points on this thread we have been using our processes since way before challenger challenger in and of it self did not uncover flaws what mr spencer says is by and large true we have a process that is not dependent on sophisticated tools case tools however tools cannot fix a bad process also tool support for hal s the shuttle language is somewhat limited the onboard flight software project was rated level by a nasa team this group generates kslocs of verified code per year for nasa feel free to call me if you or your organization is interested in more info on our software development process bret wingert fax bret wingert fax
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re moonbase race in article apr iti org aws iti org allen w sherzer writes in article r o inn j mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu writes so how much would it cost as a private venture assuming you could talk the u s government into leasing you a couple of pads in florida why would you want to do that the goal is to do it cheaper remember this isn t government instead of leasing an expensive launch pad just use a ssto and launch from a much cheaper facility allen sometimes i think you re ok and sometimes you tend to rashly leap into making statement without thinking them out wanna guess which today you d need to launch hlvs to send up large amounts of stuff do you know of a private titan pad software engineering that s like military intelligence isn t it sysmgr cadlab eng umd edu
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re crazy or just imaginitive on thu apr gmt nsmca aurora alaska edu said nsmca so some of my ideas are a bit odd off the wall and such but nsmca so was wilbur and orville wright and quite a few others this is a common misconception there was nothing off the wall about the wright brothers they were in correspondance with a number of other experimenters octave chanute lillienthal etc they flew models they had a wind tunnel in short they were quite mainstream and were not regarded as odd or eccentric by the community i suggest you read the bishop s boys or the biography by harry gates combs i can never remember which it is the guy that had the fbos and owned learjet for a while these are both in print and easily obtainable the bishop s boys is in trade paperback even even better would be the multi volume set of the wrights writings but this is out of print rare and hideously expensive mary shafer dod kotfr nasa dryden flight research facility edwards ca shafer rigel dfrf nasa gov of course i don t speak for nasa a mig at your six is better than no mig at all unknown us fighter pilot
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re vandalizing the sky in article c w f lc cs cmu edu nickh cs cmu edu nick haines writes would they buy it given that it s a lot more expensive and not much more impressive than putting a large set of several km inflatable billboards in leo or in geo visible hours from your key growth market i ll do that for only bn and the changes of identity i ve heard of sillier things like a well known utility company wanting to buy an automated boiler cleaning system which uses as many operators as the old system and which rumour has it costs three million more per unit automation is more efficient although by what scale they are not saying james nicoll
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re how many read sci space in apr mksol dseg ti com pyron skndiv dseg ti com dillon pyron writes there are actually only two of us i do henry fred tommy and mary oh yeah this isn t my real name i m a bald headed space baby yes and i do everyone else why you may wonder don t i do fred well that would just be too obvious wouldn t it oh yeah this isn t my real name either i m actually elvis or maybe a lemur i sometimes have difficulty telling which is which insisting on perfect safety is for people who don t have the balls to live in the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg ti com i don t speak for others and they don t speak for me
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re planets still images orbit by ether twist they must be shipping that good eau clair acid to california now tom freebairn
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re boom whoosh in article c ut z ctg zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes in article r ofinndku gap caltech edu palmer cco caltech edu david m palmer writes orbiting billboard i would just like to point out that it is much easier to place an object at orbital altitude than it is to place it with orbital velocity for a target km above the surface of earth you need a delta v of km s unfortunately if you launch this from the us or are a us citizen you will need a launch permit from the office of commercial space transportation and i think it may be difficult to get a permit for an antisatellite weapon well henry we are often reminded how canada is not a part of the united states yet you could have quite a commercial a sat er sky cleaning service going in a few years toronto skysweepers clear skies in hours or your money back discount rates available for astro researchers software engineering that s like military intelligence isn t it sysmgr cadlab eng umd edu
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re lindbergh and the moon was why not give g jbh uxa cso uiuc edu josh hopkins writes mancus sweetpea jsc nasa gov keith mancus writes cook varmit mdc com layne cook writes the k orteig prize helped lindbergh sell his spirit of saint louis venture to his financial backers but i strongly suspect that his saint louis backers had the foresight to realize that much more was at stake than could it work with the moon who are the far sighted financial backers of today the commercial uses of a transportation system between already settled and civilized areas are obvious spaceflight is not in this position the correct analogy is not with aviation of the s but the long transocean voyages of the age of discovery lindbergh s flight took place in not the thirties of course sorry for the misunderstanding i was referring to the fact that far more aeronautical development took place in the s for much of the s the super abundance of jennies and ox engines held down the industry by many of the obsolete wwi aircraft had been retired and whirlwind had their power weight ratio and reliability up to the point where long distance flights became practical it s important to note that the atlantic was flown not once but three times in lindbergh chamberlin and levine and byrd s america when it s time to railroad you railroad it didn t require gov t to fund these as long as something was known about the potential for profit at the destination in practice some were gov t funded some were private could you give examples of privately funded ones not off the top of my head i ll have to dig out my reference books again however i will say that the most common arrangement in prince henry the navigator s portugal was for the prince to put up part of the money and merchants to put up the rest they profits from the voyage would then be shared but there was no way that any wise investor would spend a large amount of money on a very risky investment with no idea of the possible payoff a person who puts up x billion for a moon base is much more likely to do it because they want to see it done than because they expect to make money off the deal the problem is that the amount of prize money required to inspire a moon base is much larger than any but a handful of individuals or corporations can even consider putting up the kremer prizes human powered aircraft orteig s prize lord northcliffe s prize for crossing the atlantic won in by alcock and brown were much smaller the technologies required were within the reach of individual inventors and the prize amounts were well within the reach of a large number of wealthy individuals i think that only a gov t could afford to set up a b prize for any purpose whatsoever note that burt rutan suggested that nasp could be built most cheaply by taking out an ad in avweek stating that the first company to build a plane that could take off and fly the profile would be handed b no questions asked keith mancus mancus butch jsc nasa gov n wvr mancus sweetpea jsc nasa gov black powder and alcohol when your states and cities fall when your back s against the wall leslie fish
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re moonbase race nasa resources why in article c w un bpq zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer wrote the major component of any realistic plan to go to the moon cheaply for more than a brief visit at least is low cost transport to earth orbit for what it costs to launch one shuttle or two titan ivs you can develop a new launch system that will be considerably cheaper delta clipper might be a bit more expensive than this perhaps but there are less ambitious ways of bringing costs down quite a bit ah there s the rub and a catch to boot for the purposes of a contest you ll probably not compete if n you can t afford the ride to get there and although lower priced delivery systems might be doable without demand its doubtful that anyone will develop a new system course if a low priced system existed there might be demand i wonder if there might be some way of structuring a contest to encourage low cost payload delivery systems the accounting methods would probably be the hardest to work out for example would you allow rockwell to loan you the engines and so forth any plan for doing sustained lunar exploration using existing launch systems is wasting money in a big way this depends on the how soon the new launch system comes on line in other words perhaps a great deal of worthwhile technology life support navigation etc could be developed prior to a low cost launch system you wouldn t want to use the expensive stuff forever but i d hate to see folks waiting to do anything until a low cost mac oops i mean launch system comes on line i guess i d simplify this to say that waste is a slippery concept if your goal is manned lunar exploration in the next years then perhaps its not wasted money if your goal is to explore the moon for under million then you should put of this exploration for a decade or so craig craig keithley i don t remember i don t recall apple computer inc i got no memory of anything at all keithley apple com peter gabriel third album
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re why dc will be the way of the future in article apr julian uwo ca jdnicoll prism ccs uwo ca james davis nicoll writes hmmm i seem to recall that the attraction of solid state record players and radios in the s wasn t better performance but lower per unit cost than vacuum tube systems i don t think so at first but solid state offered better reliabity id bet and any lower costs would be only after the processes really scaled up pat
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re proton centaur in article r to oh access digex net prb access digex com pat writes the question i have about the proton is could it be handled at one of ksc s spare pads without major malfunction or could it be handled at kourou or vandenberg seems like a lot of trouble to go to its probably better to invest in newer launch systems i don t think a big cost advantage for using russian systems will last for very long maybe a few years lockheed would be the place to ask since you would probably have to buy the proton from them they market the proton world wide except russia they should know a lot about the possibilities i haven t heard them propose us launches so i assume they looked into it and found it unprofitable now if it uses storables yes then how long would it take for the russians to equip something at cape york comparable to the zenit i suppose but since it looks like nothing will be built there you might just as well pick any spot the message is to launch now while its cheap and while russia and kazakstan are still cooperating later the story may be different dennis newkirk dennisn ecs comm mot com motorola land mobile products sector schaumburg il
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re vandalizing the sky in c tvl in hermes hrz uni bielefeld de hoover mathematik uni bielefeld de uwe schuerkamp writes in article c t k db research canon oz au enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes hideous vision of the future observers were startled this spring when a nasa launch vehicle arrived at the pad with schwarzenegger painted in huge block letters on the this is ok in my opinion as long as the stuff returns to earth what do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize the night sky it is not even april anymore if this turns out to be true it s time to get seriously active in terrorism this is unbelievable who do those people think they are selling every bit that promises to make money well i guess i m left wondering just who all the light fascists think they are yes i understand the issues i don t even particularly care for the idea but am i the only one that finds the sort of overreaction above just a little questionable you must find things like the moon really obnoxious in their pollution a few questions for those frothing at the mouth to ask themselves how long is this thing supposed to stay up sounds like it would have a huge drag area not a lot of mass and be in a fairly low orbit just what orbital parameters are we talking about here what real impact are we talking about really how many optical astronomers are really going to be impacted which is more important adding a few extra days of seeing for very few optical astronomers or getting the data the sensors are supposed to return along with the data for large inflatables and the potential there for an inflatable space station the choice would seem to be one or the other since the advertising is being used to help fund this thing if your answer to above was the astronomers then feel free to come up with some other way to fund the to my mind more important research data that would be gained by this without spending any more of my money to do it in other words put up or shut up i guess we really deserve being wiped out by uv radiation folks stupidity wins i guess that s true and if only by pure numbers probably so i m just not sure we agree about who the stupid are another depressed planetary citizen hoover yeah me too insisting on perfect safety is for people who don t have the balls to live in the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg ti com i don t speak for others and they don t speak for me
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re planets still images orbit by ether twist in apr zeus calpoly edu dmcaloon tuba calpoly edu david mcaloon writes ether implodes earth core is gravity if not for the lack of extraneously capitalized words i d swear that mcelwaine had changed his name and moved to cal poly i also find the choice of newsgroups interesting perhaps someone should tell this guy that sci astro doesn t stand for astrology it s truly frightening that posts like this are originating at what are ostensibly centers of higher learning in this country small wonder that the rest of the world thinks we re all nuts and that we have the problems that we do in case you haven t gotten it yet david i don t think this was quite appropriate for a posting to sci groups insisting on perfect safety is for people who don t have the balls to live in the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg ti com i don t speak for others and they don t speak for me
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re comet in temporary orbit around jupiter in a message of apr jgarland kean ucs mun ca writes in article apr sq sq com msb sq sq com mark brader writes mb so the mb figure seems unlikely to actually be anything but a perijove jg sorry perijoves i m not used to talking this language couldn t we just say periapsis or apoapsis msged
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re moonbase race sysmgr king eng umd edu doug mohney writes allen sometimes i think you re ok and sometimes you tend to rashly leap in making statement without thinking them out wanna guess which today you d need to launch hlvs to send up large amounts of stuff do you know of a private titan pad doug actually if memory serves the atlas is an outgrowth of the old titan icbm if so there s probably quite a few old pads albeit in need of some serious reconditioning still being able to buy the turf and pad and bunkers including prep facility at midwest farmland prices strikes me as pretty damned cheap charlie prael dante shakala com shakala bbs clanzen radio network sunnyvale ca
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death and taxes was why not give billion to in my first posting on this subject i threw out an idea of how to fund such a contest without delving to deep into the budget i mentioned granting mineral rights to the winner my actual wording was mining rights somebody pointed out quite correctly that such rights are not anybody s to grant although i imagine it would be a fait accompli situation for the winner so how about this give the winning group i can t see one company or corp doing it a or year moratorium on taxes tom freebairn
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re planets still images orbit by ether twist dmcaloon tuba calpoly edu david mcaloon writes lots of trippy stuff deleted wow what is this guy smoking and where can i get some dan daniel k appelquist quanta is the electronically published and distributed dan visix com magazine of science fiction and fantasy for more information send mail to quanta andrew cmu edu or fax for back issues ftp export acs cmu edu id anonymous
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galileo update forwarded from neal ausman galileo mission director galileo mission director status report post launch april spacecraft on april cruise science memory readouts mros were performed for the extreme ultraviolet spectrometer euv dust detector dds and magnetometer mag instruments preliminary analysis indicates the data was received properly on april a command detector unit signal to noise ratio cdusnr test and a radio frequency subsystem automatic gain control rfsagc test were performed using the lga low gain antenna over dss madrid meter antenna and dss madrid meter antenna respectively data analysis is in process these tests are periodically performed to provide detailed information relative to the telecom command hardware integrity on april a no op command was sent to reset the command loss timer to hours its planned value during this mission phase on april the first of two suppressed carrier dsn deep space network advanced receiver characterization tests was performed over dss goldstone meter antenna the spacecraft modulation index was varied from degrees to degrees for a range of ground receiver bandwidth settings the ac bus imbalance measurement has not exhibited significant change greater than dn throughout this period but the dc bus imbalance measurement has the ac measurement reads dn volts the dc measurement has ranged from dn volts to dn volts and currently reads dn volts these measurements are consistent with the model developed by the ac dc special anomaly team the spacecraft status as of april is as follows a system power margin watts b spin configuration dual spin c spin rate sensor rpm star scanner d spacecraft attitude is approximately degrees off sun lagging and degrees off earth leading e downlink telemetry rate antenna bps coded lga f general thermal control all temperatures within acceptable range g rpm tank pressures all within acceptable range h orbiter science instruments powered on are the pws euv uvs epd mag hic and dds i probe rrh powered off temperatures within acceptable range j cmd loss timer setting hours time to initiation hours trajectory as of noon thursday april the galileo spacecraft trajectory status was as follows distance from earth km au distance from sun km au heliocentric speed km per hour distance from jupiter km round trip light time minutes seconds special topic as of april a total of real time commands have been transmitted to galileo since launch of these were initiated in the sequence design process and initiated in the real time command process in the past week one real time command was transmitted one was initiated in the sequence design process and none initiated in the real time command process the only command activity was a command to reset the command loss timer ron baalke baalke kelvin jpl nasa gov jet propulsion lab m s telos the aweto from new zealand pasadena ca is part caterpillar and part vegetable
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re inflatable mile long space billboards was re vandalizing the sky yamauchi ces cwru edu brian yamauchi writes enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes what s new in my opinion friday april washington dc now space marketing is working with university of colorado and livermore engineers on a plan to place a mile long inflatable billboard in low earth orbit this sounds like something lowell wood would think of does anyone know if he s involved no the idea was suggested around here during discussions of possible near term commercial space activities one of the folks involved in those discussions a spacecraft engineer named preston carter passed the suggestion on to some entreprenurial types and mike lawson is apparently going ahead with it preston is now at llnl and is working with space marketing on the sensors that might be carried nasa would provide contractual launch services however since nasa bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates wn mar the taxpayers would bear most of the expense actually that sounds unlikely i don t know what the launch vehicle would be but i would expect it to go on a commercial launcher certainly not on the shuttle and the fraction of the cost paid to nasa for e g launch support would probably cover nasa s incremental costs pretty well this may look like environmental vandalism but mike lawson ceo of space marketing told us yesterday that the real purpose of the project is to help the environment the platform will carry ozone monitors he explained advertising is just to help defray costs this may be the purpose for the university of colorado people my guess is that the purpose for the livermore people is to learn how to build large inflatable space structures no as noted llnl is involved in lightweight sensor design per clementine and related programs i m sure folks around here would like to see a demonstration of a modern inflatable structure but after all the u s did the echo satellites long ago and an advertising structure would not be much closer to an inflatable space station than echo was or a parade balloon for that matter what do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize the night sky it is not even april anymore while i happen to personally dislike the idea mostly because i ve got a background in astronomy it s hardly vandalism it would be a short lived intrusion on the night sky doing no permanent damage and actually hurting only a small subset of astronomers on the other hand it would certainly draw attention to space if this is true i think it s a great idea learning how to build structures in space in an essential step towards space development which unfortunately this is not likely to contribute much to if such a project also monitors ozone depletion and demonstrates creative use of partial private sector funding in the process so much the better is nasa really supporting this junk as far as i know it s a purely commercial venture and does anyone have any more details other than what was in the wn news blip how serious is this project is this just in the wild idea stage or does it have real funding i gather it is being very seriously discussed with possible advertisers commercial projects however generally don t get funding they get customers whether it will have customers remains to be seen are protesting groups being organized in the states not yet though if this project goes through i suppose the return of jeremy rifkin is inevitable nahh he s too busy watching for mutant bacteria to notice anything in the sky brian yamauchi case western reserve university yamauchi alpha ces cwru edu department of computer engineering and science jordin kare jtk s gov lawrence livermore national laboratory these are my personal views only and do not represent official statements or positions of llnl the university of california or the u s doe
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re comet in temporary orbit around jupiter phil g fraering writes mark brader writes thanks again one final question the name gehrels wasn t known to me before this thread came up but the may issue of scientific american has an article about the inconstant cosmos with a photo of neil gehrels project scientist for nasa s compton gamma ray observatory same person no i estimate a probability the gehrels referred to is thomas gehrels of the spacewatch project kitt peak observatory you may change that to certainty but to clarify spacewatch is a university of arizona project using a telescope of the steward observatory located on kitt peak it is not associated with kitt peak national observatory other than sharing a mountain
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re planets still images orbit by ether twist actually the ether stuff sounded a fair bit like a bizzare qualitative corruption of general relativity nothing to do with the old fashioned ether though maybe somebody could loan him a gr text at a low level didn t get much further than that tho whew greg
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re vandalizing the sky in article c t k db research canon oz au enzo research canon oz au enzo liguori writes now space marketing is working with university of colorado and livermore engineers on a plan to place a mile long inflatable billboard in low earth orbit nasa would provide contractual launch services however since nasa bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates wn mar the taxpayers would bear most of the expense this may look like environmental vandalism but mike lawson ceo of space marketing told us yesterday that the real purpose of the project is to help the environment the platform will carry ozone monitors he explained advertising is just to help defray costs how could this possibly be environmental vandalism when there is no environment to vandalize up there since the advertising is just to help defray costs it s certainly no surprise that the taxpayers would bear most of the expense sounds like a good idea to me since the taxpayers would bear all of the expense if they didn t do the advertising what do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize the night sky great idea they should have done it long ago what about light pollution in observations i read somewhere else that it might even be visible during the day leave alone at night i can t believe that a mile long billboard would have any significant effect on the overall sky brightness venus is visible during the day but nobody complains about that besides it s in leo so it would only be visible during twilight when the sky is already bright and even if it would have some miniscule impact it would be only for a short time as it goes zipping across the sky are protesting groups being organized in the states no doubt people are always looking for something to protest about so it would be no surprise really really depressed well look on the er bright side imagine the looks on the faces of people in primitive tribes out in the middle of nowhere as they look up and see a can of budweiser flying across the sky d jeff cook jeff cook ftcollinsco ncr com
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re big amateur rockets pbd runyon cim cdc com paul dokas writes i was reading popular science this morning and was surprised by an ad in the back i know that a lot of the ads in the back of ps are fringe science or questionablely legal but this one really grabbed my attention it was from a company name personal missle inc or something like that the company was probably public missiles inc of michigan anyhow the ad stated that they d sell rockets that were up to in length and engines of sizes f to m they also said that some rockets will reach feet yup now aside from the obvious dangers to any amateur rocketeer using one of these beasts isn t this illegal i can t imagine the faa allowing people to shoot rockets up through the flight levels of passenger planes not to even mention the problem of locating a rocket when it comes down nope it s not illegal it is however closely regulated in order to purchase and use the big rocket motors required it is necessary to be one of the following a an employee of a government agency b an employee or student at a university doing research involving rockets c a member or representative of an educational organization involved in research or other uses of rockets there are two such organizations the tripoli rocketry association and the national association of rocketry members of either organization must demonstrate proficiency in construction and flight before they are allowed to purchase large motors on their own the faa will issue a waiver of its regulations upon request to any organization which can persuade them it has taken adequate precautions to avoid conflicts with aircraft the usual stipulations are only operation up to a specified ceiling is allowed depending on the location this ceiling may be from to feet agl the operator of the rocket is responsible for avoiding any aircraft within the operating radius around the launch site flight into clouds or beyond visual range in haze is expressly prohibited the faa will provide a notam informing other users of the airspace that unmanned rocket operations are taking place at the specified place and time most of the launches that are held and there are dozens of them every year are held in areas where air traffic is relatively light such as over the western deserts the black rock desert north of reno is particularly popular since it is x miles of nothing to hit on the ground the two rocketry associations test and approve motors for their members use to insure safety depending on motor size the launcher setback is from to or more feet by the way rockets under lb and powered by an f motor are exempt from most federal regulations on unmanned rockets anyway see far subpart c for details as for recovery although the higher altitude rockets can reach up to feet most of them only get to to feet the typical rocket is to inches in diameter and carries a to foot parachute or multiple parachutes depending on the payload many rockets also carry either a small transmitter or an audio sounder particularly at launches in the eastern us where there are more obstructions camera telemetry transmitter and video payloads are becoming quite common and no i m not going to even think of buying one i m not that crazy why not it s a lot of fun check out the traffic on rec models rockets for information about the model lb and under and high power everything bigger rocket hobbies as with all dangerous activities the key is to practice safety i ve been flying consumer rockets ranging up to lbs takeoff weight for years and still have all my extremities intact paul mine ll do feet and carries pounds of dynamite dokas that s another thing no explosive warheads of any kind are allowed on these rockets none please forgive me for shouting but that s one of the biggest misconceptions people have about our hobby just remember you will die someday true but it will not be related to the rocket hobby unless i get hit while crossing a road with a rocket in my hand mark johnson usnail ncr peripheral products division e mail mark johnson wichitaks ncr com n rock rd voice v wichita ks non business email compuserve com
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re new planet kuiper object found francisco da fonseca rodrigues writes tonigth a tv journal here in brasil announced that an object beyond pluto s orbit was found by an observatory at hawaii they named the object karla the name is a working name only quite unofficial the formal designation is fw the program said the object wasn t a gaseous giant planet and should be composed by rocks and ices can someone confirm these information could this object be a new planet or a kuiper object it s most likely a kuiper belt object with an estimated diameter of km the orbit hasn t been determined well enough yet to say much more about it
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re moonbase race in article r rn innn mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu writes you d need to launch hlvs to send up large amounts of stuff do you know of a private titan pad you d need to launch hlvs to send up large amounts of stuff if you assume no new launcher development if you assume new launcher development with lower costs as a specific objective then you probably don t want to build something hlv sized anyway nobody who is interested in launching things cheaply will buy titans it doesn t take many titan pricetags to pay for a laser launcher or a large gas gun or a development program for a big dumb booster all of which would have far better cost effectiveness
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