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re how many read sci space in article apr mksol dseg ti com mccall mksol dseg ti com fred j mccall writes isn t my real name either i m actually elvis or maybe a lemur i sometimes have difficulty telling which is which definitely a lemur elvis couldn t spell just listen to any of his songs pat
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re sunrise sunset times in article r f a ai news umbc edu rouben math math umbc edu rouben rostamian writes how the length of the daylight varies with the time of the year experiment with various choices of latitudes and tilt angles compare the behavior of the function at locations above and below the arctic circle if you want to have some fun plug the basic formulas into lotus use the spreadsheet auto re calc and graphing functions to produce bar graphs based on latitude tilt and hours of day light avg pat
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true globe who makes it it has been known for quite a while that the earth is actually more pear shaped than globular spherical does anyone make a globe that is accurate as to actual shape landmass configuration long lat lines etc thanks in advance bill xpresso uucp bill vance bothell wa rwing xpresso bill you listen when i xpresso i listen when uuxpresso
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commercial space news commercial space news space technology investor number this is number twenty two in an irregular series on commercial space activities the commentaries included are my thoughts on these developments sigh as usual i ve gotten behind in getting this column written i can only plead the exigency of the current dynamics in the space biz this column is put together at lunch hour and after the house quiets down at night so data can quickly build up if there s a lot of other stuff going on i ve complied a lot of information and happenings since the last column so i m going to have to work to keep this one down to a readable length have fun contents us commercial space sales flatten in delta wins two key launch contracts commercial remote sensing venture gets doc go ahead investment firm calls gd s space biz still a good investment ariane predicts dip in launch demand ntsb investigates pegasus launch over aborted abort another pegasus competitor is announced georgia launch site dropped from planning spain s capricornia launcher still proceeding pacastro signs launch reservation with swedish space corp china and taiwan joint satellite venture reported south korea announces national move into space technologies space technology indexes through march final notes articles us commercial space sales flatten in the us department of commerce projects us commercial space sales will remain flat in with current data showing only a percent growth over as published in us industrial outlook which was released in january revenues from the us space business are currently projected to be about m in contrast to previous years when us commercial space sales had shown double digits growth rates this year s projected results are driven by the us satellite manufacturing industry where sales are projected to drop from satellites worth m in to satellites worth m in the us industrial outlook also projects u s commercial launchers faces flat demand in coming year and while predicting that revenues will increase percent to m future sales will be adversely affected by the downward revision in department of defense launch plans offsetting flat launch revenues and satellite deliveries revenues for fixed and mobile satellite services are projected to increase to m primarily driven by increased revenues from broadcast and cable tv networks similarly remote sensing products and sales are projected to increase to m in up us commercial space revenues r e commercial satellites satellite services fixed mobile satellite ground equip mobile equipment commercial launches remote sensing data and services private microgravity research lab total annual revenues r revised data for e estimated data for commentary this is the first look at how the us commercial space industry is expected to do in in general not a bad report with most of the bad news concentrated in the satellite manufacturing area there changes of only a few satellites worth m or so apiece can substantially influence the annual projection if we look forward over several years this market sector should retain strong sales as us firms have been very successful in regaining international market share in the satellite business furthermore sales of satellite ground equipment should go up in the next revision of this data expected to be released about mid year data on mobile satellite ground equipment sales including such items as gps receivers and portable satellite terminals appears to be missing from the january data set doc usually publishes a listing of space business indicators in mid year and the next revision of commercial space revenues should be released then i expect the revised revenues should easily top m if the mobile satellite ground equipment are added back into the numbers and the year should show about a overall market growth looking beyond this year s data future markets look quite promising the doc projects satellite service revenues could top m by if new mobile satellite services and direct broadcasting are implemented as planned and that mobile satellite station sales are expected to continue to growth at per year through the mid s my numbers are somewhat more pessimistic for near term market growth but i agree the trend should be for substantial growth in us commercial space sales over at least the next years my pessimism is due to more conservative assumptions on market capture and growth in leo communications and satellite direct broadcasting services i don t believe all of the current players in the yet to be born leo communications satellite market and in the yet to be proven direct broadcasting market will be financial successes nor that sales growth will be as explosive as currently projected it should also be noted this year s doc data is the first release to show revenues from privately funded microgravity research facilities the m shown in the janurary data is primarily for the spacehab module planned for launch in april on the space shuttle but also hidden in these numbers are the projected first sales from the comet orbital launch and recovery experiment module delta wins two key launch contracts mcdonnell douglas corporation which builds and markets the delta launch vehicle has won two important launch contracts motorola inc announced in mid february that it had selected the delta to launch most of the satellites in the satellite iridium leo communications constellation and in mid april mcdonnell douglas was awarded the usaf medium launch vehicle iii contract the launch services contract with motorola for the iridium constellation launch is for at launch of least iridium satellites another satellites have been contracted to be launched by khrunichev enterprise in russian on proton vehicle launches these satellites planned for the delta will be launched at a time providing for at least launches additional satellites in the iridium constellation such as a planned on orbit spares may also be launched on delta although details of the launch services contract were reported to be negotiation and not yet final the usaf mlv contract also went to mdc bidding a variant of their delta ii launcher this contract is only initially worth million but establishes a set of launch options for up to launches encompassing launches from through these launches will deploy the next generation of the usaf s global positioning system block iir navigation satellites plus other programs first option for to meet the usaf launch options is expected to be exercised this year after which the usaf is expected to request launches of up to deltas per year for at least years under this contract the usaf can also request launch on demand services from mdc for the time period with a launch to occur within days of the request commentary if these two contracts are fulfilled they should provide an excellent business base for mdc s delta launch program through the turn of the century combined these two contracts have a potential for about launches worth about m to mdc and sustaining a core business base of m year other contracts for international and commercial payloads as well as for nasa medium elv class payloads will add to this business base keeping mdc as a viable commerical launch company however it should be noted there are risk elements in these contracts motorola s iridium leo communications constellation has not yet received a us federal communications commission license for operation in the u s nor has motorola lined up all the financing and financial partners for the iridium venture without these approvals or financial backing there will be no iridium launches but hopefully these uncertainties will be settled this year similarly the usaf mlv iii program has been the target of several congressional actions which have slowed the production of the gps block iir satellites and deleted the funding for the mlv iii program in favor of the usaf nls spacelifter program at this time while it appears the mlv iii contract will be executed future funding for the mlv iii and other usaf commercial launch contracts is being reconsidered as part of national space launch strategy reviews some opinions expressed from within the administration and congress propose cancellation of all elv upgrade programs including the mlv programs in favor of the proposed spacelifter program such opinions may have some weight in this year s budget deliberations particularly as dod funds will be more difficult to find in the shrinking us defense budget commercial remote sensing venture gets doc go ahead the first commercial license to operate a remote sensing satellite was approved in early february by the us department of commerce s office of space commerce a license was granted to worldview imaging corporation of oakland california to build and operate a pair of leo imaging satellites to provide multi spectral images of the earth commentary there has been little data released on this venture by worldview and the doc other than the announcement of the operating and construction license this was reported to be at the request of worldview most industry speculation identifies this new venture as a star wars spinoff using sdi type technology to provide digital earth sensing data and heavily integrated into digital gis databases for remote sensing gis users most probable customers for this service include exploration geologists agricultural planners and urban planners it is noteworthy this is the first commercial venture under the land remote sensing policy act the act as passed last november provides that remote sensing data gathered from private remote sensing craft may be sold to users at differing prices prior to this act remote sensing data from all satellites had to be sold to all users at the same prices and private remote sensing ventures would have had to sell at the government set landsat data prices there are rumors of several other potential commercial remote sensing ventures working their way through the system at different stages of development i think the large landsat and spot satellite systems will provide the majority of the satellite remote sensing data market for the next decade or so in contrast to these large government sponsored remote sensing systems smaller market ventures such as worldview and others can exploit market niches and use innovative technology and i believe can find profitability on the margin i predict there may be some very interesting ventures appearing in the next year or so investment firm calls gd s space biz still a good investment wall street investment house morgan stanley thinks general dynamic s space systems division could still be a moneymaker despite having failed in the last atlas launches in a recent analyst s report morgan stanley said we are more than ever convinced that if the company can return the atlas to its historical plus success rate this will become a highly profitable cash generating unit based upon discussions with gd s corporate management morgan stanley projects that if the atlas problems are cleared up the unit could see m in earnings per year by and m per year by this is based upon gd s projection of capturing about atlas launches per year on the world market commentary three failures in a row of their launch system has hurt general dynamic s space systems division since gd has restructured to only keep a very few profitable core businesses many market pundits have been speculating gd s space business might be next to be sold the morgan stanley report indicates gd s space systems division has some potential as a moneymaker despite current problems if they can get their act together sales are projected to be about m in which will probably generate a loss of about m if gd can capture their projected share of the space launch market and if they have managed to clean up the reliability of their atlas launchers then they could generate healthy profits from those sales but until they demonstrate the atlas centaur program is back on track this division will continue to show substantial losses in response to the sell off rumors in my opinion this operation is not a really good candidate for takeover and quick profitability to do such a takeover the current set corporate and divisional management would be replaced with another set from outside the firm in gd ssd s case to get the division back on track the management team will have to concentrate hard on the technical problems with the atlas centaur as well as in selling atlas services this would indicate only another firm with experience in rocket launch operations could find such talent in house and be able to convince customers to buy their launch services optimally the firm would have substantial liquid rocket experience and experience in marketing space technology internationally as well candidates for this might be trw rockwell lockheed and martin and possibly mcdonnell douglas and boeing but most of those firms have cash flow problems mdc have had a substantial business contraction boeing and mdc are involved with other launch firms lockheed or have taken on substantial debt martin and coming up with the m purchase price for the division is a big chunk of change for any company ariane predicts dip in launch demand arianespace the operator of the ariane launch system is projecting a dip in launch demand in the late s in early february arianespace released their annual market survey which detailed their projection of the space transportation market for the next decade over short run arianespace expects to retain their dominant position and sustain a majority share of the launch market of international and commercial launches planned through ariane holds contracts for general dynamics atlas vehicle holds contracts mcdonnell douglas delta holds and great wall s long march vehicle holds launch contracts three quarters of future launch contracts for which ariane can compete are projected to come from communications satellites with the remaining split between weather earth observation and scientific satellites most of the future telecommunications demand growth is predicted to come from the asia pacific region arianespace expects the current market consolidation of individual satellite operators into regional or national groups will continue with these groups investing in heavier satellites with larger communications payloads carrying more transponders arianespace predicts the average mass of telecommunications satellites should increase by over today s average level to about kg in geo demand for commercial launch services is expected to remain strong over the next three years but in the second half of the decade arianespace predicts demand will decrease arianespace bases this prediction upon a matching of satellite transponder demand and supply particularly as new data compression techniques appear to could double or triple transponder capacity using existing or near term transponders one of the significant possible changes in the market was identified as the arrival of new launch vehicles including russian launch systems but arianespace predicts that in the long term investors purchasing launch services are looking for the best trade off between launch service quality and price and that russian and other new launch services will have to prove out their capabilities and service quality and their market penetration will be minimal commentary ariane releases their market surveys annually and i reported on their prior market survey in a past issue of csn sti comparing the two surveys there aren t outstanding differences in the numbers the most notable change is the consideration of new data compression techniques reducing the demand for new physical transponders on orbit i note that in contrast to some predictions demand for space based communications transponders appears to be remain strong while fiber optic lines are making substantial inroads into the established point to point telecommunications markets growing demand for telecommunications services world wide and for point to multipoint broadcast services have prevented a decrease in space transponder demand fiberoptic cables provide a higher capability service but only from established point a to established point b to establish a fiberoptic link it is necessary to install cable between the points and while there are improved network solutions installing a large network of distributed fiberoptic links can cost millions or billions of dollars for broadcast services where there is not an existing ground network structure satellites still offer the most cost effective solution and if new services are required into a new region it is cheaper to install a small satellite link costing only a few tens of thousands of dollars and tie into the existing global satellite network this allows rapid growth of new satellite services and has kept demand high the replacement market for fiberoptics is growing as well since as demand grows between the points serviced it becomes cost effective to later install a fiberoptic link to handle the increase in traffic since the telecommunications and data transfer markets are still growing rapidly satellite market projections remain rosy but satellites are also getting longer orbital lifetimes current generation satellites are now getting guarantees of at years of on orbit service or more in contrast to years of service from last generation s satellites this has cut back some of the launch demand as satellite owners are rescheduling replacement satellite launches over longer intervals and as last note arianespace didn t flag it this year but it looks like the space transportation market will be rather over supplied by existing launch systems in the near term the annual commercial launch demand is for about medium sized satellites per year from the supply side ariane is capable of launching up to about a dozen medium sized satellites a year delta is capable of about per year atlas is capable of long march japan s h vehicle russia s proton capable of and other systems such as zenit and soyuz another medium launches per year that s a lot of capability for a small market we can only expect the competition to intensify for commercial launches ntsb investigates pegasus launch over aborted abort the feb pegasus launch by orbital sciences corporation has spawned an investigation over an apparent violation of range safety rules a valid abort order from a nasa range safety officer to halt the mission was overridden and the pegasus was launched in violation of range safety rules in the last few minutes of the pegasus launch countdown one of two abort command receivers aboard the pegasus failed such a failure typically scrubs a launch and a nasa range safety officer at wallops island va issued a mission abort order about a minute before the scheduled pegasus launch somehow this command was overridden by the osc launch team or the message was lost in the communications channels and the pegasus was launched despite the valid abort call fortunately the pegasus functioned as expected and the abort command receiver was not needed but this incident did spark an investigation since a valid abort order was given under agreed to launch constraint rules and was not obeyed leading the investigation is the national transportation safety board ntsb with support from nasa osc and the air force this investigation marks the first time ntsb has taken the lead on an incident involving a space launch according to the ntsb their investigation will take about months and is primarily looking at lines of authority communications links and safety procedures used in the launch commentary this is the first time that the ntsb has led an investigation into a space launch their leadership was requested by the department of commerce s office of commercial space transportation who had licensed the commercial launch at the time of writing this column some of the initial investigations have been concluded and some of the results are starting to leak out into the trade press apparently or four different communications channels were in use during the test after the abort destruct receiver stopped responding the nasa test director and range controller in the mission control room at wallops island gave abort orders about a minute before the launch according to the mission rules this should have stopped the launch somehow the osc test conductor ordered the abort reversed and the nasa communicator on the net relayed that order to the b carrying the pegasus at about seconds before launch differing explainations of exactly how this happened are proposed with the best set being that clear lines of communications and clear definition of the responsibilities of the mission control team and understanding of the mission rules were not established before the launch as we see more and more commercial launches more of these procedural issues are going to crop up and will have to be resolved this case is interesting because it is the first time the ntsb has been called in to investigate a commercial launch problem as they do with commercial aircraft problems i think this problem will turn out to be primarily problems with procedures and communications and will be cleared up with issuance of guidelines on how launch communications should be set up and how specific lines of authority should be delineated another pegasus competitor is announced tsniimach enterprise in russia announced it is marketing a new small space launch system based upon converted icbm components two versions of the launcher are being marketed the aerokosmos winged vehicle launched like the osc pegasus and the severkosmos launched from a mobile ground transporter the aerokosmos is projected to deliver kg to a km circular orbit or kg to an km circular orbit and the severkosmos to be capable of kg to km orbits and kg to km also proposed to be used with these launch systems is a leo data relay system called sineva tsniimach enterprise is described as a ex military establishment focusing on aerodynamics and thermal protection of spacecraft and which has participated in the development of the buran shuttle system they are located near the npo energia facility in kaliningrad outside of moscow commentary there s very little released information on this new venture my suspicion is it is another russian enterprise looking for hard currency and trying to capitalize upon their in house knowledge of ex soviet launch systems it adds to the list of numerous commercial space startups announced from the ex soviet union this one s a little different in that they are offering variants of ex soviet icbms but i can t identify any key customers being targeted or substantial financial backing georgia launch site dropped from planning in late january georgia tech research institute released the results of a preliminary study on the feasibility of a commercial rocket launching site in camden county georgia at the old kingsland missile test launching site on the atlantic coast the preliminary study recommended the site not be pursued as a commercial launch site stating reopening the site was not feasible due to projected low investment returns plus environmental and other geographic considerations however the report did say the site might be ideal for other aerospace uses and recommended other potential uses commentary this should put the nails in the coffin of the kingsland commercial launch site while other sites are still proceeding with commercial launch site development plans kingsland found without a key customer to act as anchor tenant and if substantial infrastructure had to be put in then the expected returns were too low to justify the cost of development this might point out some key discriminators in judging the feasibility of a commercial launch site these include is there an identified key customer to provide core usage sufficient to recover setup costs is there a market advantage of using the site can existing infrastructure be used or modified at the site can financing be found at low enough cost to support the investment other commercial launch site ventures including those at woomera poker flat cape york white sands alabama off shore platform hawaii and vandenberg have to also be judged against these criteria in my opinion some of these ventures are flying on hope and speculation and not on sound financial grounds spain s capricornia launcher still proceeding in one of his last official acts former president bush authorized space technology transfer for several joint space ventures between us and other firms one of these was a proposed use of us technology by spain to build a small booster with that regulatory impediment removed the stage capricornia launch vehicle will start development later this year planning for a first launch in the time period the capricornia is described as a small stage all solid booster designed to put kg into leo several launch sites are being examined for the system including on the iberian peninsula and on the canary islands originated by inta in spain the project reports it has m in development funding and will use technology from argentina s condor launch vehicle as well as from the us commentary several firms have identified a market opportunity in providing a small launcher for the european market small payloads from european firms or organizations currently use either ariane piggyback launches or the us italian scout launcher however ariane piggyback opportunities are limited and the scout program is being phased out accompanied by some disarray in the italian government and space industry regarding any follow on system this has left an apparent niche for a new european small launch system surprisingly enough esa has not supported development of such a system within the current space funding structure studies have been performed by british aerospace aerospatiale deutsche aerospace and italian organizations but with the exception of the swedish pacastro system reported below i have not been able to find any other european development work with even a rumor of funding for hardware also of interest is the linking of the capricornia to the argentinian condor launcher there have been some interesting rumors surfacing out of argentina over the past year about a space launcher irbm program funded under the military junta which ruled the country in the s and early s what is known is in feb the argentinian air force formally transferred control of the condor missile program to the new civilian argentinian national space agency comison nacional de atividades espaciales cnae the condor program was described as originating in expanding upon the smaller condor rocket program in collaboration with egypt and with support of german firms the condor was also reportedly funded indirectly by iraq in the mid s fairly large solid rocket motors were built and tested but argentinan development of a suitable guidance package lagged that of the propulsion system it should be noted cnae is planning to launch its first scientific satellite in late the us m kg sac b satellite will study the earth s upper atmosphere and includes cooperative experiments from italy and the us no launch vehicle has yet been selected but osc s pegasus and the russian burlak air launched rocket are reported to be strong contenders for this contract pacastro signs launch reservation with swedish space corp pacastro a small launch firm in herndon virginia announced in late february it had received a m launch reservation contract from the swedish space corp to launch a satellite on pacastro s pa launch vehicle this will be performed as part of the polar satellite service pss a joint norwegian space center swedish space corp program to upgrade the andoya rocket range in norway and offering small satellite launches into the polar regions according to pacastro pss is also performing an m upgrade of the andoya launch facilities including a new integration facility and a fully enclosed vertical assembly building for small launch vehicles like the pacastro pa pacastro has been chosen as the main alternative rocket supplier for the small satellite launch service to be offered by pss from andoya the date of the launch of the swedish satellite was not specified commentary pacastro has been trying to line up customers and funding for their launch vehicle for some time now the pa is a small two stage rocket fueled by rp and liquid oxygen from pacastro s literature the engines designed for the pa series rockets are built of off the shelf components based upon the lunar module descent engines built by trw and are capable of putting a kg satellite into a km circular polar orbit pacastro is trying to arrange construction financing for its first three pa vehicles with a first launch planned for and orbital launches planned for my records show pacastro hired trw to provide marketing support and systems design with primary engineering to be done by aeroastro a small satellite builder closely associated with pacastro headquartered in the same building the swedish space corporation would supply engineering launch operations vehicle subsystems and marketing support sumitomo corp of tokyo is a first round investor and sits on the board of directors pacastro has gotten a first round financial package of at least k some sources place this of high as m but has been searching for about a year for the additional m needed to design build and launch their first set of vehicles the launch reservation from ssc can possibly be used to help bring some investors on board but by my estimate they will need much more than the single m sale to put their venture into real hardware china and taiwan joint satellite venture reported in early march it was reported a joint satellite communications venture between a taiwanese and mainland chinese was in the works as reported in the taipei press china development corp cdc headquartered in taiwam and with links to the ruling nationalist party is planning to set up a joint venture in hong kong with china great wall industry corp with the objective of launching a regional communications satellite cdc would cover about of the satellite system cost us m in exchange for rights to of the satellite s communications channels commentary this announcement came close on the heels of the release of taiwanese plans for space development released in mid january in those plans the national space program office of taiwan will launch satellites starting with rocsat a kg scientific spacecraft planned for launch in two additional satellites are planned both communications satellites trw has been helping taiwan plan this program budgeted at t b us m through i haven t been able to establish any relationship between this venture and those of the nspot but there might be a connection while taiwan has the financing to pursue several ventures the current taiwanese telecommunications market might not support two separate sastellite ventures the reported name for the tiawanese chinese system is asiasat but i don t thinks this has any relationship with the existing hong kong based asiasat program involving chinese hong kong and other asian investors other than using it as an organizational model there are some obvious advantages to pursuing such a joing venture it could provide excellent first hand experience to taiwan for a very low cost which then can be used in later satellite ventures but there are internal political issues between taiwanese and chinese ventures but putting any joint venture through a hong kong intermediary corporation might allow it to proceed in any case the east asian satellite market is lighting up with substantially growth projected in space services and revenues this is just another indicator to add to the list south korea announces national move into space technologies south korea s trade industry and resources ministry recently announced plans to invest us b in research and development and another us b into manufacturing and research facilities for advanced aerospace technologies space technologies have been specifically targeted as part of this program beginning with manufacture and launch of an advanced multi purpose satellite by the objective of this investment is to raise south korea s aerospace technology to the level of the world s top countries by commentary south korea has been quietly working to develop its national aerospace industry specifically including space activities i m noting this as a flag that potential new players are coming into the commercial space market as part of their national effort national telecommunications satellites for korea telecom will be launched in april and oct on delta designated koreasat and the platforms will provide television and telephone service throughout the korean peninsula southwestern japan and portions of china bordering north korea south korea launched its first small satellite piggyback on ariane in aug called uribyol our star and costing about us m uribyol is planned for piggyback launch in october of this year again on ariane and will be entirely made in korea uribyol projected for a launch will be an environment monitoring micro satellite this satellite may be the precursor to a series of small earth observation satellites the keos korean earth observation system project which has been submitted for approval to the south korean government would use two or three kg spacecraft equipped with optical and microwave sensors south korean press reports claim there is also a parallel military effort to establish the capabilities for building and launching small military satellites by supposedly a government panel had been established to oversee such an effort funded at us m between and in anticipation of an expected pullout of u s intelligence gathering systems from the korean peninsula in conjunction with all of these reported efforts south korean is also pursuing production work either as off sets to existing aerospace technology contracts for example mcdonnell douglas is offsetting production of some delta parts to south korean firms as part of the koreasat launch contracts or for production of consumer space items among other products south korea exports satellite receiver television setups to japan and samsung has announced teaming for production of osc s orbcomm user terminals this looks like a very aggressive push into space technologies considering that east asia is currently the fastest growing sector for commercial space services primarily for telecommunications a south korean push into space technologies may change the composition of commercial space market there over the next decade space technology indexes through march as announced in the last csn sti each issue will give the results of stock indexes and portfolios regarding space stocks and investments the table below summarizes results to the end of march the space technology index did quite a bit better than the market as a whole as represented by the s p index since of the values included in the index are us firms this represents a general increase in the market value of space related firms the increase in the first quarter is more than in all of which is a very promising sign although future months may reverse this trend the commercial space technology index has also done quite well but the pure play portfolio consisting of stocks of firms which are pure plays in space technologies has also surpassed its results in all of we ll keep an eye on these index results through march beginning beginning jan to mar s p space tech index comm l space tech index space tech pure plays final notes what this column s already full and i still have bunches of commercial space developments to report on as i said at the start of this column there s been a lot of interesting happenings but i ll have to put them into the next issue looking ahead i ve got several articles in the works on new happenings with iridium and the leo communications satellite market more news on international launchers appearing and disappearing on the market new international commercial space ventures and other interesting developments and as always i hope you folks find this stuff useful and interesting any and all comments are welcome wales larrison space technology investor felicitas multos habet amicos p o box seal beach ca
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space advertising of two developments have brought these type of activities back to the forefront in first in february the russians deployed a m reflector from a progress vehicle after it had departed from the mir space station while this banner reflector was blank npo energia was very active in reporting that future banner reflectors will be available to advertisers who could use a space based video of their logo or ad printed on the banner in a tv commercial as filmed from the mir the second development has been that space marketing inc the same company responsible for merchandising space on the conestoga booster and comet spacecraft is now pushing the environmental billboard as laid out by smi chief engineer dr ron humble of the university of colorado space laboratory and preston carter of the lawrence livermore national laboratory the environmental billboard is a large inflatable outer support structure of up to x meters advertising is carried by a mylar reflective area deployed by the inflatable frame to help sell the concept the spacecraft responsible for maintaining the billboard on orbit will carry ozone reading sensors to continuously monitor the condition of the earth s delicate protective ozone layer according to mike lawson head of smi furthermore the inflatable billboard has reached its minimum exposure of days it will be released to re enter the earth s atmosphere according to imi as the biodegradable material burns it will release ozone building components that will literally replenish the ozone layer the remaining spacecraft will monitor the atmosphere for another year before it too re enters and burns up and adds to the ozone supply this would not be a cheap advertisement costing at least several millions of dollars exact costs were not available but smi estimates that market exposure would be x that of the people who watched the superbowl where a second advertising unit cost since smi is located in atlanta georgia it is being promoted as being available in time for the opening of the summer olympics in atlanta but back to brian s questions and does anyone have any more details other than what was in the wn news blip how serious is this project is this just in the wild idea stage or does it have real funding see above as for serious if they can get m or so my estimate of for development costs and a flight unit plus m for a launch then it s probably real they are claiming to tailor the orbit to overfly specific locations at specific times for optimum advertising impact so they probably can t piggy back upon someone else s planned launch and will have to buy a dedicated launch that s a m cost they need to raise right there and there will probably be some legal challenges to this as well note there is one potential legal challenge to smi on the use of launch vehicle advertising already while i don t think the legal challenges would win out and yes i am an amateur astronomer and no i don t really like the idea of this additional light pollution but i know of no prohibition of it the legal challenges and court fights would probably remove any positive aspects of the advertising i can imagine several ways to make the advertisers look like louts for doing this which would change positive market exposure to negative market exposure and negate the space advertising advantage would you spend m to look like an idiot and light pollution might not be too bad if it s in a low enough orbit and it relies upon reflected light only it would only be visible for a short time just after local dusk and before dawn for maximum market exposure you want to have it visible just after dusk minimizing impact on astronomy since that s the time of worse seeing due to day night thermal turbulence it might still be a problem but perhaps there are ways to mitigate this as for having real funding none that i can identify there were about expressions of interest made on the conestoga advertising opportunity but that included curious folks and was for only a commitment i haven t heard of any serious funding for this but i m sure they are shopping the venture around looking for some money in order to flesh out the concept some more but i am confident there are no firm or paying customers at this time and if anybody wants to cross post this to sci astro please be my guest i don t have posting privileges to that area or at least i don t think i do wales larrison space technology investor maximus wb
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space advertising of brian yamauchi asks regarding orbital billboards and does anyone have any more details other than what was in the wn news blip how serious is this project is this just in the wild idea stage or does it have real funding well i had been collecting data for next edition of the commercial space news space technology investor to summarize space advertising first advertising on space vehicles is not new it is very common practice to put the cooperating organization s logos on the space launch vehicle for example the latest gps launcher had the very prominent logos on its side of mcdonnell douglas the delta launcher rockwell international who built the gps satellite usaf who paid for the satellite and launch and the gps navstar program office this has not been considered paid advertising but rather public relations since the restrictions have been such that only organizations involved in the launch could put their logos on the side and there was no money exchanged for this however putting a high logo on the side of the launch vehicle facing the cameras is advertising as much as it is public relations in my opinion and by the way i note that the dc x test vehicle has rather prominent mcdonnell douglas and sdio logos on the side there have been several studies looking at the revenue potentials for use of space vehicles for advertising or placing large advertising signs in orbit on the shuttle for example i know of several serious studies in the early and mid s which looked at putting logos on the external tank or on the sides of the payload bay these ventures would be different than public relations in that the logos or displays would not be restricted to the firms participating on that flight and would involve payment of sums for the right to fly the logos in a prominent organization for example painting the et to look like a pepsi can or putting a disneyworld logo on the inside of the payload bay where the cameras would scan past it adverts on launch vehicles the first paid advertising was done on a soviet launcher in about when several non involved foreign organizations were allowed to pay to put their logos on a proton launch an italian shoe company was one of the first advertisers i remember similarly soviet cosmonauts on mir made a paid advertisement for the last olympic games and have gleefully shown banners and other items from participating firms and organizations mars candy bars for example got a plug from orbit as a sponsor of the launch of the british visiting cosmonaut to mir now us firms are starting to put paid advertisements on launch vehicles the upcoming conestoga launch in june putting the comet recoverable payload capsule into orbit will have paid advertisements on the side for arnold schwarzenegger s upcoming movie the last action hero besides the usual logos of the participating organizations columbia pictures has paid to put ads on the main fuselage of the mission s conestoga rocket its booster rockets and on the comet payload which will orbit the earth for one month a concept for this advertising display was published in space news magazine a couple of months ago as a side note robert lorsch an advertising executive is talking about suing nasa he charges nasa with appropriating an idea he created with the space agency in to form corporate advertising sponsorships on nasa spacecraft as a way to get funding for the space program lorsch contends that in selling advertising space on the upcoming comet nasa violated an agreement that it would not use his idea without him being the exclusive representative for nasa and receiving compensation this is being disputed since the launch is a commercial launch and nasa is receiving none of the advertising revenues but the funding for the comet program is coming from nasa orbital billboards orbital billboards have been the staple of science fiction for some time arthur c clarke wrote about one example and robert heinlein described another in the man who sold the moon several different potential projects have been developed although none have been implemented but the most real prior to being the eiffel ii project which would have placed a large inflatable sculpture in orbit to celebrate the french republic s bi centennial cont maximus wb
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re true globe who makes it in article bill m xpresso uucp bill xpresso uucp bill vance writes it has been known for quite a while that the earth is actually more pear shaped than globular spherical does anyone make a globe that is accurate as to actual shape landmass configuration long lat lines etc i don t think you re going to be able to see the differences from a sphere unless they are greatly exaggerated even the equatorial bulge is only about part in you d never notice a mm error in a cm globe and the other deviations from spherical shape are much smaller svr resembles a high speed collision henry spencer u of toronto zoology between svr and sunos dick dunn henry zoo toronto edu utzoo henry
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bil space race ideas moon base on the cheap that is an idea the most efficient moon habitat also the idea of how to get the people off the moon once the prize was won also the idea of how to rescue someone who is dying on the moon maybe have a area where they can all see each other and can help each other if something happens i liek the idea of one prize for the first moon landing and return by a non governmental body also the idea of then having a moon habitat race i know we need to do somthing to get people involved eccentric millionaire billionaire would be nice we see how old ross feels about it after all it would be a great promotional thing and a way to show he does care about commericalization and the people will try to broach the subject to him moonbase on the cheap is a good idea nasa and friends seem to take to much time and give us to expensive stuff that of late does not work hubble and such basically what is the difference between a mil peice of junk and a multi mil piece of junk i know junk michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked
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i like option c of the new space station design it needs some work but it is simple and elegant its about time someone got into simple construction versus overly complex basically just strap some rockets and a nose cone on the habitat and go for it might be an idea for a moon mars base to where is captain eugenia sp when you need it reference to russian heavy lifter i think michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked
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re jemison on star trek better ideas in article rbp q oai access digex net prb access digex com pat writes in article apr princeton edu phoenix princeton edu carlosn carlos g niederstrasser writes a transporter operator that better be one important transport usually it is a nameless ensign who does the job for such a guest appearance i would have expected a more visible meaningful role christian slater only gota cameo on st and besides maybe she can t act pat better idea for use of nasa shuttle astronauts and crew is have them be found lost in space after a accident with a worm hole or other space time glitch maybe age jemison a few years makeup and such and have her as the only survivour of a failed shuttle mission that got lost heh of late they way they have been having shuttle problems in the media anything can happen imagine a astronaut crew member to find themselves in the th century as the object of interest of an alien civilization maybe rescued or helped by the st enterprise i know vegr and such was okay but this could be better michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked
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re jemison on star trek better ideas in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes better idea for use of nasa shuttle astronauts and crew is have them be found lost in space after a accident with a worm hole or other space time glitch maybe age jemison a few years makeup and such and have her as the only survivour of a failed shuttle mission that got lost of course that asumes the mission was able to launch
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re gamma ray bursters where are they in article radsr att access digex net prb access digex com pat writes what evidence indicates that gamma ray bursters are very far away their distribution is very isotropic and the intensity distribution crudely speaking indicates we re seeing an edge to the distribution given the enormous power i was just wondering what if they are quantum black holes or something like that fairly close by why would they have to be at galactic ranges now in the good old days before gro data it was thought the gamma bursters were neutron stars in the galaxy it was expected that gro would confirm this by either showing they were a local population within a few hundred light years or that they were in the galactic halo mechanism was not known but several plausible ones existed also to be fair it was noted that the brightest burster was probably in the lmc suggesting theorists might be wrong back then as the sun is not at the center of the galaxy a halo population should show anisotropy a local disk population is ruled out completely at this stage to avoid the anisotropy you have to push the halo out the energy then gets large the mechanism of getting ns out that far becomes questionable and we should start to see for example the andromeda s bursters the data is consistent with either a oort cloud distribution but only just but no one can think of a plausible source with the right spectrum or it can be a cosmological distances hence isotropy and the edge is the edge of the universe if at cosmological distances you need very high energy to detect and a very compact source for spectrum ergo a neutron star colliding with another neutron star or black hole even then getting the spectrum is very hard but conceivable if we know anything about physics at that level the bursters are not due to quantum black holes or cosmic strings wrong spectrum for one thing the situation is further complicated by recent claims that there are two classes of sources in the colliding ns they d actually probably fit relatively easily into the ns ns and ns bh collision scenarios respectively my own pet theory is that it s flying saucers entering hyperspace but the reason i am asking is that most everyone assumes that they are colliding nuetron stars or spinning black holes i just wondered if any mechanism could exist and place them closer in if you can think of one remember to invite me to stockholm steinn sigurdsson lick observatory steinly lick ucsc edu standard disclaimer the laws of gravity are very very strict and you re just bending them for your own benefit b b
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computer cult from tom subject computer cult from scott fri apr received by igc apc org revision id aa fri apr pdt date fri apr pdt message id aa igc apc org from scott weikart scott sender scott to cdplist subject next stand off status r redwood city ca api a tense stand off entered its third week today as authorities reported no progress in negotiations with charismatic cult leader steve jobs negotiators are uncertain of the situation inside the compound but some reports suggest that half of the hundreds of followers inside have been terminated others claim to be staying of their own free will but jobs persuasive manner makes this hard to confirm in conversations with authorities jobs has given conflicting information on how heavily prepared the group is for war with the industry at times he has claimed to have hardware which will blow anything else away while more recently he claims they have stopped manufacturing their own agents from the atf apple taligent forces believe that the group is equipped with serious hardware including caliber pieces and possibly canon equipment the siege has attracted a variety of spectators from the curious to other cultists some have offered to intercede in negotiations including a young man who will identify himself only as bill and claims to be the ms iah former members of the cult some only recently deprogrammed speak hesitantly of their former lives including being forced to work hour days and subsisting on jolt and twinkies there were frequent lectures in which they were indoctrinated into a theory of interpersonal computing which rejects traditional roles late night vigils on chesapeake drive are taking their toll on federal marshals loud rock and roll mostly talking heads blares throughout the night some fear that jobs will fulfill his own apocalyptic prophecies a worry reinforced when the loudspeakers carry jobs own speeches typically beginning with a chilling i want to welcome you to the next world roland j schemers iii networking systems systems programmer g redwood hall distributed computing group stanford ca stanford university schemers slapshot stanford edu
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order moore s book to restore great telescope several people have enquired about the availability of the book about the great reflector built at birr castle ireland in which remained the largest in the world until the the start of the th century the astronomy of birr castle was written by patrick moore who now sits on the committee which is going to restore the telescope the remains are on public display all year round the massive support walls the foot long tube and other bits and pieces this book is the definitivie history of how one man the third earl of rosse pulled off the most impressive technical achievement perhaps ever in the history of the telescope and the discoveries made with the instrument patrick moore is donating all proceeds from the book s sale to help restore the telescope astronomy ireland is making the book available world wide by mail order it s a fascinating read and by ordering a copy you bring the day when we can all look through it once again that little bit nearer ordering information the astronomy of birr castle dr patrick moore xii pp mm x mm price u s us us post packing add airmail u k pounds sterling post packing europe pounds sterling post and packing rest of world as per u s but funds payable in us only payment make all payments to astronomy ireland credit card mastercard visa eurocard access accepted by email or snail mail give card number name address expiration date and total amount payments otherwise must be by money order or bank draft send to our permanent address p o box dublin ireland you can also subscribe to astronomy space at the same time see below tony ryan astronomy space new international magazine available from astronomy ireland p o box dublin ireland issues one year sub uk pounds us surface add us airmail access visa mastercard accepted give number expiration date name address world s largest astro soc per capita unless you know better tel uk n ireland eire cost up to p per min
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re potential world bearing stars in article c dz c j e visix com dan visix com daniel appelquist writes i m on a fact finding mission trying to find out if there exists a list of potentially world bearing stars within light years of the sun is anyone currently working on this sort of thing thanks dan in principle any star resembling the sun mass luminosity might have planets located in a suitable orbit there several within ly of the sun they are single stars for double or multiple systems might be troublesome there s a list located at ames arc nasa gov somewhere in pub space i think it is called stars dat by the way what kind of project if i may know rui infinity is at hand rui sousa if yours is big enough grab it ruca saber si pt all opinions expressed here are strictly my own
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re vandalizing the sky in article c y t w news cso uiuc edu gfk uxa cso uiuc edu george f krumins writes it is so typical that the rights of the minority are extinguished by the wants of the majority no matter how ridiculous those wants might be george it s called a democracy the majority rules sorry if ytou don t like it i suggest you modify the constitution to include a constitutional right to dark skies the theory of government here is that the majority rules except in the nature of fundamental civil rights if you really are annoyed get some legislation to create a dark sky zone where in all light emissions are protected in the zone kind of like the national radio quiet zone did you know about that near teh radio telescope observatory in west virginia they have a mile emcon zone theoretically they can prevent you from running light ac motors like air conditioners and vacuums in practice they use it mostly to control large radio users pat
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re space advertising of wales larrison ofa fidonet org writes the environmental billboard is a large inflatable outer support structure of up to x meters advertising is carried by a mylar reflective area deployed by the inflatable frame to help sell the concept the spacecraft responsible for maintaining the billboard on orbit will carry ozone reading sensors to continuously monitor the condition of the earth s delicate protective ozone layer according to mike lawson head of smi furthermore the inflatable billboard has reached its minimum exposure of days it will be released to re enter the earth s atmosphere according to imi as the biodegradable material burns it will release ozone building components that will literally replenish the ozone layer can we assume that this guy studied advertising and not chemistry granted it probably a great advertising gimic but it doesn t sound at all practical josh hopkins jbh uxa cso uiuc edu find a way or make one attributed to hannibal
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space station redesign option c in article apr aurora alaska edu nsmca aurora alaska edu writes i like option c of the new space station design it needs some work but it is simple and elegant its about time someone got into simple construction versus overly complex basically just strap some rockets and a nose cone on the habitat and go for it might be an idea for a moon mars base to where is captain eugenia sp when you need it reference to russian heavy lifter i think michael adams nsmca acad alaska edu i m not high just jacked this is a report i got the subject messed up
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nasa special publications for voyager mission i have two books both nasa special publications on the voyager missions one is titled voyages to jupiter the other voyage to saturn these were excellent books put together after the encounters with each planet the question is did nasa ever put together a similar book for either the uranus encounter or neptune if so what sp number is it and where can it be obtained if not why didn t they gene theporch raider net gene wright theporch raider net the macinteresteds of nashville
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re sunrise sunset times in article apr cbis ece drexel edu jpw cbis ece drexel edu joseph wetstein asked hello i am looking for a program or algorithm that can be used to compute sunrise and sunset times i would appreciate any advice joe wetstein jpw coe drexel edu to compute this and many other astronomical things go and get x ephem written by elwood c downey it is e g on export lcs mit edu uwe bonnes bon lte e technik uni erlangen de
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re vandalizing the sky in c y t w news cso uiuc edu george f krumins writes it is so typical that the rights of the minority are extinguished by the wants of the majority no matter how ridiculous those wants might be umm perhaps you could explain what rights we are talking about here greg nicholls vidi nicho vnet ibm com or vici nicho olympus demon co uk veni
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conference on manned lunar exploration may crystal city reply address mark prado permanet org from higgins fnalf fnal gov bill higgins beam jockey in article apr aio jsc nasa gov daviss sweetpea jsc nasa gov s f davis writes aw st had a brief blurb on a manned lunar exploration confernce may th at crystal city virginia under the auspices of aiaa thanks for typing that in steven i hope you decide to go pat the net can use some eyes and ears there i plan to go it s about minutes away from my home i can report on some of it from my perspective anyone else on sci space going to be there if so send me netmail maybe we can plan to cross paths briefly i ll maintain a list of who s going mark prado permanet org origin just send it to bill clinton permanet org
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re drag free satellites in article raee b s access digex net prb access digex com pat writes in article apr kelvin jpl nasa gov baalke kelvin jpl nasa gov ron baalke writes in answer to a question from hawking chahine described a proposed drag free satellite but confirmed that at this point it s only a concept so what s a drag free satellite coated with wd triad the first drag free satellite was designed and built by the johns hopkins applied physics laboratory and launched sept the satellite was in three sections separated by two booms the central section housed the discos disturbance compensation system which consisted of a proof mass of special non magnetic alloy housed within a spherical cavity the proof mass flew a true gravitational orbit free from drag and radiation pressure teflon microthrusters kept the body of the satellite centered around the proof mass thereby flying the entire satellite drag free triad was one of the apl designed navy navigation satellites the nd generation operational navigation satellites flying today nova use a single axis version of discos triad was also the sixth apl satellite to be powered by an rtg apl flew the first nuclear power supply in space in further info on triad discos etc can be found in spacecraft design innovations in the apl space department johns hopkins apl technical digest vol no eric hoffman
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re gamma ray bursters where are they if all of these things have been detected in space has anyone looked into possible problems with the detectors that is is there some mechanism cosmic rays whatever that could cause the dector to think it was seeing one of these things graydon
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re space advertising of as for sf and advertising in space there is a romantic episode in mead s the big ball of wax where the lovers are watching the constellation pepsi cola rising over the horizon and noting the some stars had slipped cause the teamsters were on strike this was the inspiration for my article on orbiting a formation of space mirrors published in spaceflight in as the reviews said this seems technically feasible and could be commercially viable but is it aesthetically desirable these days the only aesthetics that count are the ones you can count dave stephenson geological survey of canada ottawa ontario canada internet stephens geod emr ca
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re gamma ray bursters where are they from graydon saundrsg qucdn queensu ca if all of these things have been detected in space has anyone looked into possible problems with the detectors that is is there some mechanism cosmic rays whatever that could cause the dector to think it was seeing one of these things graydon that would not explain why widely separated detectors such as on ulysses and pvo and ginga et al would see a burst at the same time in fact be fore batse having this widely separated interplanetary network was the only sure way to locate a random burst with only one detector one cannot locate a burst except to say it s somewhere in the field of view with two detectors one can use the time that the burst is seen in each detector to narrow the location to a thin annulus on the sky with three detectors one gets intersecting annuli giving two possible locations if one of these locations is impossible because say the earth blocked that part of the sky voila you have an error box batse by having detectors of its own can do its own location determination but only to within about degrees would someone at gsfc like david like to comment on the current state of location determination having inde pendent sightings by other detectors helps drive down the uncertainty you did touch on something that you didn t mean to though some believe in a reference that i have somewhere that absorption like features seen in a fraction of grbs can actually be caused by the detector it would be a mean nasty god though that would have a nai crystal act like a gauss neutron star but this is getting too far afield peter peterf oddjob uchicago edu
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re level in apr fnalf fnal gov bill higgins beam jockey writes in article almaden ibm com wingert vnet ibm com bret wingert writes the onboard flight software project was rated level by a nasa team this group generates kslocs of verified code per year for nasa will someone tell an ignorant physicist where the term level comes from it sounds like the risks digest equivalent of large extra large jumbo or maybe it s like defcon i gather it means that shuttle software was developed with extreme care to have reliablility and safety and almost everything else in the computing world is level or cheesy dime store software not surprising but who is it that invents this standard and how come everyone but me seems to be familiar with it level refers to the carnegie mellon software engineering institute s capability maturity model this model rates software development org s from with being chaotic and being optimizing dod is beginning to use this rating system as a discriminator in contracts i have more data on thifrom page to i have a page presentation that summarizes it wethat i could fax to you if you re interested bret wingert wingert vnet ibm com fax
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re gamma ray bursters where are they if gamma ray bursters are extragalactic would absorption from the galaxy be expected how transparent is the galactic core to gamma rays how much energy does a burster put out i know energy depends on distance which is unknown an answer of the form x ergs per megaparsec is ok john carr jfc athena mit edu
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re space station redesign jsc alternative kjenks gothamcity jsc nasa gov hey that s me wrote i have mb worth uuencode d gif images contain charts outlining one of the many alternative space station designs being considered in crystal city i just posted the gif files out for anonymous ftp on server ics uci edu you can retrieve them from ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geode gif ics uci edu incoming geodea gif ics uci edu incoming geodeb gif the last two are scanned color photos the others are scanned briefing charts these will be deleted by the ics uci edu system manager in a few days so now s the time to grab them if you re interested sorry it took me so long to get these out but i was trying for the ames server but it s out of space ken jenks nasa jsc gm space shuttle program office kjenks gothamcity jsc nasa gov the earth is the cradle of humanity but mankind will not stay in the cradle forever konstantin tsiolkvosky
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re hst servicing mission in article rd g ckb access digex net prb access digex com pat writes somebody mentioned a re boost of hst during this mission meaning that weight is a very tight margin on this mission i haven t heard any hint of a re boost or that any is needed why not grapple do all said fixes bolt a small liquid fueled thruster module to hst then let it make the re boost it has to be cheaper on mass then usingthe shuttle as a tug nasty dirty combustion products people have gone to monumental efforts to keep hst clean we certainly aren t going to bolt any thrusters to it ben
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re what counntries do space surveillance i can tell you that when amsat launched some birds along a spot satellite french that during installation of some instruments on spot there heavily armed legionaires who had a take no prisoners look on there faces spot satellites are completely capable of doing some very good on orbit surveillance bmc robert w mcgwier n hy ccr p ida org center for communications research interests amateur radio astronomy golf princeton n j asst scoutmaster troop hightstown
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re vandalizing the sky nicho vnet ibm com greg stewart nicholls writes in c y t w news cso uiuc edu george f krumins writes it is so typical that the rights of the minority are extinguished by the wants of the majority no matter how ridiculous those wants might be umm perhaps you could explain what rights we are talking about here greg nicholls vidi nicho vnet ibm com or vici nicho olympus demon co uk veni i was suggesting that the minority of professional and amateur astronomers have the right to a dark uncluttered night sky let me give you an example when you watch tv they have commercials to pay for the programming you accept that as part of watching if you don t like it you can turn it off if you want to view the night sky and there is a floating billboard out there you can t turn it off it s the same reasoning that limits billboards in scenic areas pat writes george it s called a democracy the majority rules sorry if ytou don t like it i suggest you modify the constitution to include a constitutional right to dark skies the theory of government here is that the majority rules except in the nature of fundamental civil rights i say any reasonably in depth perusal of american history will show you that many wasps have continued the practices of prejudice discrimination and violence against others of different races religions and beliefs despite the law pat says if you really are annoyed get some legislation to create a dark sky zone where in all light emissions are protected in the zone kind of like the national radio quiet zone did you know about that near teh radio telescope observatory in west virginia they have a mile emcon zone theoretically they can prevent you from running light ac motors like air conditioners and vacuums in practice they use it mostly to control large radio users i say what i m objecting to here is a floating billboard that presumably would move around in the sky i for one am against legislating at all i just wish that people had a bit of common courtesy and would consider how their greed for money impacts the more ethereal and aesthetic values that make us human this includes the need for wild and unspoiled things including the night sky george george krumins the serpent and the rainbow gfk uxa cso uiuc edu pufferish observatory o
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re vandalizing the sky in article pgf srl cacs usl edu pgf srl cacs usl edu phil g fraering writes jeff cook ftcollinsco ncr com jeff cook writes people in primitive tribes out in the middle of nowhere as they look up and see a can of budweiser flying across the sky d seen that movie already or one just like it come to think of it they might send someone on a quest to get rid of the dang thing actually the idea like most good ideas comes from jules verne not the gods must be crazy in one of his lesser known books i can t remember which one right now the protagonists are in a balloon gondola travelling over africa on their way around the world in the balloon when one of them drops a fob watch they then speculate about the reaction of the natives to finding such a thing dropped straight down from heaven but the notion is not pursued further than that scott new sig under construction scott i chase please be patient sichase csa lbl gov thank you
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i want that billion in article c x o p zoo toronto edu henry zoo toronto edu henry spencer writes in article r rn innn mojo eng umd edu sysmgr king eng umd edu writes you d need to launch hlvs to send up large amounts of stuff do you know of a private titan pad you d need to launch hlvs to send up large amounts of stuff if you assume no new launcher development if you assume new launcher development with lower costs as a specific objective then you probably don t want to build something hlv sized anyway nobody who is interested in launching things cheaply will buy titans it doesn t take many titan pricetags to pay for a laser launcher or a large gas gun or a development program for a big dumb booster all of which would have far better cost effectiveness henry i made the assumption that he who gets there firstest with the mostest wins ohhh you want to put in fine print which says thou shall do wonderous r d rather than use off the shelf hardware sorry didn t see that in my copy most of the pournellesque proposals run along the lines of some dollar amount reward for some simple goal you go ahead and do your development i ll buy off the shelf at higher cost or even russian but i also assume that there d be some buy us provos in there and be camped out in the moon while you are launching and assembling little itty bitty payloads in leo with your laser or gas gun and working out the bugs of assembly integration in leo oh hey could i get a couple of canadarms tuned for the lunar environment i wanna do some teleoperated prospecting while i m up there software engineering that s like military intelligence isn t it sysmgr cadlab eng umd edu
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re keeping spacecraft on after funding cuts in article r aqr dnv access digex net prb access pat writes voyager has the unusual luck to be on a stable trajectory out of the solar system all it s doing is collecting fields data and routinely squirting it down one of the mariners is also in stable solar orbit and still providing similiar solar data there are no mariner craft from which we are still receiving data i believe you are referring to one or more of pioneers through launched from december through november which were put into solar orbits to study interplanetary space i recall reading that at least one of them was still functioning years after launch chris jones clj ksr com
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remote sensing data i am posting this for someone else please respond to the address listed below please also excuse the duplication as this message has been crossposted thanks request for ideas for applications of remote sensing databases via the internet nasa is planning to expand the domain of users of its earth and space science data this effort will o use the evolving infrastructure of the u s global change research program including the mission to planet earth mtpe and the earth observing system data and information system eosdis programs o use the internet particularly the high performance computing and communications program s nren national research and education network as a means of providing access to and distribution of science data and images and value added products o provide broad access to and utilization of remotely sensed images in cooperation with other agencies especially noaa epa doe ded doi usgs and usda o support remote sensing image and data users and development communities the user and development communities to be included but not limited to as part of this effort are educators commercial application developers e g television weather forecasters librarians publishers agriculture specialists transportation forestry state and local government planners and aqua business this program will be initiated in your assistance is requested to identify potential applications of remote sensing images and data we would like your ideas for potential application areas to assist with development of the implementation plan please note this is not a request for proposals we are seeking your ideas in these areas potential commercial use of remote sensing data and images potential noncommercial use of remote sensing data and images in education especially levels k and other noncommercial areas types of on line capabilities and protocols to make the data more accessible additional points of contacts for ideas and addresses and names from whom to request proposals for your convenience a standard format for responses is included below feel free to amend it as necessary either e mail or fax your responses to us by may e mail on internet rsdwg orion ossa hq nasa gov ascii no binary attachments please fax ernie lucier c o rsdwg nasa hq fax survey responses in the following formats may also be placed in the ftp directory ftp pub rsdwg on orion nasa gov please indicate the format acceptable formats are word for windows x macintosh word x and x and rtf response format request for ideas for applications of remote sensing databases via the internet potential commercial use of remote sensing data and images if possible identify the relevant types of data or science products user tools and standards uses of remote sensing data and images in education especially levels k and other noncommercial areas if possible identify the relevant types of data or science products user tools and standards types of on line capabilities and protocols to make the data and images more accessible if possible identify relevant types of formats standards and user tools additional suggested persons or organizations that may be resources for further ideas on applications areas please include name organization address and telephone number organizations mailing lists electronic and paper periodicals etc to whom a solicitation for proposals should be sent when developed please include name organization address and telephone number we would benefit from knowing why users that know about nasa remote sensing data do not use the data is it because they do not have ties to nasa investigators or high cost lack of accessibility incompatible data formats poor area of interest coverage inadequate spatial or spectral resolution in case we have questions please send us your name address phone number and e mail address if you have one if you don t wish to send us this information feel free to respond to the survey anonymously thank you for your assistance
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larsonian astronomy and physics larsonian astronomy and physics orthodox physicists astronomers and astrophysicists claim to be looking for a unified field theory in which all of the forces of the universe can be explained with a single set of laws or equations but they have been systematically ignoring or suppressing an excellent one for years the late physicist dewey b larson s comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe which he calls the reciprocal system is built on two fundamental postulates about the physical and mathematical natures of space and time the physical universe is composed entirely of one component motion existing in three dimensions in discrete units and in two reciprocal forms space and time the physical universe conforms to the relations of ordinary commutative mathematics its magnitudes are absolute and its geometry is euclidean from these two postulates larson developed a complete theoretical universe using various combinations of translational vibrational rotational and vibrational rotational motions the concepts of in ward and out ward scalar motions and speeds in relation to the speed of light which larson called unit velocity and the natural datum at each step in the development larson was able to match objects in his theoretical universe with objects in the real physical universe photons sub atomic particles incomplete atoms charges atoms molecules globular star clusters galaxies binary star systems solar systems white dwarf stars pulsars quasars etc even objects not yet discovered then such as exploding galaxies and gamma ray bursts and applying his theory to his new model of the atom larson was able to precisely and accurately calculate inter atomic distances in crystals and molecules compressibility and thermal expansion of solids and other properties of matter all of this is described in good detail with out fancy complex mathematics in his books books of dewey b larson the following is a complete list of the late physicist dewey b larson s books about his comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe some of the early books are out of print now but still available through inter library loan the structure of the physical universe the case against the nuclear atom beyond newton new light on space and time quasars and pulsars nothing but motion a substitute for the billion super collider the last four chapters explain chemical bonding the neglected facts of science the universe of motion final solutions to most all astrophysical mysteries basic properties of matter all but the last of these books were published by north pacific publishers p o box portland or and should be available via inter library loan if your local university or public library doesn t have each of them several of them including the last one are available from the international society of unified science isus e atkin ave salt lake city utah this is the organization that was started to promote larson s theory they have other related publications including the quarterly journal reciprocity physicist dewey b larson s background physicist dewey b larson was a retired engineer chemical or electrical he was about years old when he died in may he had a bachelor of science degree in engineering science from oregon state university he developed his comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe while trying to develop a way to compute chemical properties based only on the elements used larson s lack of a fancy ph d degree might be one reason that orthodox physicists are ignoring him but it is not a valid reason sometimes it takes a relative outsider to clearly see the forest through the trees at the same time it is clear from his books that he also knew orthodox physics and astronomy as well as any physicist or astronomer well enough to point out all their contradictions ad hoc assumptions principles of impotence in consistencies etc larson did not have the funds etc to experimentally test his theory and it was not necessary for him to do so he simply compared the various parts of his theory with other researchers experimental and observational data and in many cases his explanation fit better a self consistent theory is much more than the orthodox physicists and astronomers have they claim to be looking for a unified field theory that works but have been ignoring one for over years now modern physics does not explain the physical universe so well some parts of some of larson s books are full of quotations of leading orthodox physicists and astronomers who agree and remember that epicycles crystal spheres geocentricity flat earth theory etc also once seemed to explain it well but were later proved conceptually wrong prof frank h meyer professor emeritus of uw superior was is a strong proponent of larson s theory and was or still is president of larson s organization the international society of unified science and editor of their quarterly journal reciprocity he moved to minneapolis after retiring super collider boondoggle i am against contruction of the superconducting super collider in texas or anywhere else it would be a gross waste of money and contribute almost nothing of scientific value most physicists don t realize it but according to the comprehensive general unified theory of the late physicist dewey b larson as described in his books the strange goofy particles mesons hyperons alleged quarks etc which they are finding in existing colliders fermi lab cern etc are really just atoms of anti matter which are created by the high energy colliding beams and which quickly disintegrate like cosmic rays because they are incompatible with their environment a larger and more expensive collider will only create a few more elements of anti matter that the physicists have not seen there before and the physicists will be even more confused than they are now are a few more types of anti matter atoms worth the billion cost don t we have much more important uses for this wasted money another thing to consider is that the primary proposed location in texas has a serious and growing problem with some kind of fire ants eating the insulation off underground cables how much poisoning of the ground and ground water with insecticides will be required to keep the ants out of the supercollider naming the super collider after ronald reagon as proposed is totally absurd if it is built it should be named after a leading particle physicist larsonian anti matter in larson s comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe anti matter is not a simple case of opposite charges of the same types of particles it has more to do with the rates of vibrations and rotations of the photons of which they are made in relation to the vibrational and rotational equivalents of the speed of light which larson calls unit velocity and the natural datum in larson s theory a positron is actually a particle of matter not anti matter when a positron and electron meet the rotational vibrations charges and rotations of their respective photons of which they are made neutralize each other in larson s theory the anti matter half of the physical universe has three dimensions of time and only one dimension of space and exists in a reciprocal relationship to our material half larsonian relativity the perihelion point in the orbit of the planet mercury has been observed and precisely measured to advance at the rate of seconds of arc per century seconds of this advance are attributed via calculations to gravitational perturbations from the other planets venus earth jupiter etc the remaining seconds of arc are being used to help prove einstein s general theory of relativity but the late physicist dewey b larson achieved results closer to the seconds than general relativity can by instead using special relativity in one or more of his books he applied the lorentz transformation on the high orbital speed of mercury larson totally rejected general relativity as another mathematical fantasy he also rejected most of special relativity including the parts about mass increases near the speed of light and the use of the lorentz transform on doppler shifts those quasars with red shifts greater than really are moving faster than the speed of light although most of that motion is away from us in time in larson s comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe there are three dimensions of time instead of only one but two of those dimensions can not be measured from our material half of the physical universe the one dimension that we can measure is the clock time at low relative speeds the values of the other two dimensions are negligible but at high speeds they become significant and the lorentz transformation must be used as a fudge factor larson often used the term coordinate time when writing about this in regard to mass increases it has been proven in atomic accelerators that acceleration drops toward zero near the speed of light but the formula for acceleration is acceleration force mass a f m orthodox physicists are ignoring the third factor force in larson s theory mass stays constant and force drops toward zero force is actually a motion or combinations of motions or relations between motions including inward and outward scalar motions the expansion of the universe for example is an outward scalar motion inherent in the universe and not a result of the so called big bang which is yet another mathematical fantasy the universe of motion i wish to recommend to everyone the book the universe of motion by dewey b larson north pacific publishers p o box portland oregon pages indexed hardcover it contains the astrophysical portions of a general unified theory of the physical universe developed by that author an unrecognized genius more than thirty years ago it contains final solutions to most all astrophysical mysteries including the formation of galaxies binary and multiple star systems and solar systems the true origin of the degree background radiation cosmic rays and gamma ray bursts and the true nature of quasars pulsars white dwarfs exploding galaxies etc it contains what astronomers and astrophysicists are all looking for if they are ready to seriously consider it with open minds the following is an example of his theory s success in his first book in the structure of the physical universe larson predicted the existence of exploding galaxies several years before astronomers started finding them they are a necessary consequence of larson s comprehensive theory and when quasars were discovered he had an immediate related explanation for them also gamma ray bursts astro physicists and astronomers are still scratching their heads about the mysterious gamma ray bursts they were originally thought to originate from neutron stars in the disc of our galaxy but the new gamma ray telescope now in earth orbit has been detecting them in all directions uniformly and their source locations in space do not correspond to any known objects except for a few cases of directional coincidence gamma ray bursts are a necessary consequence of the general unified theory of the physical universe developed by the late physicist dewey b larson according to page of his book the universe of motion published in the gamma ray bursts are coming from supernova explosions in the anti matter half of the physical universe which larson calls the cosmic sector because of the relationship between the anti matter and material halves of the physical universe and the way they are connected together the gamma ray bursts can pop into our material half anywhere in space seemingly at random this is why the source locations of the bursts do not correspond with known objects and come from all directions uniformly i wonder how close to us in space a source location would have to be for a gamma ray burst to kill all or most life on earth there would be no way to predict one nor to stop it perhaps some of the mass extinctions of the past which are now being blamed on impacts of comets and asteroids were actually caused by nearby gamma ray bursts larsonian binary star formation about half of all the stars in the galaxy in the vicinity of the sun are binary or double but orthodox astronomers and astrophysicists still have no satisfactory theory about how they form or why there are so many of them but binary star systems are actually a likely consequence of the comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe developed by the late physicist dewey b larson i will try to summarize larsons explanation which is detailed in chapter of his book the universe of motion and in some of his other books first of all according to larson stars do not generate energy by fusion a small fraction comes from slow gravitational collapse the rest results from the complete annihilation of heavy elements heavier than iron each element has a destructive temperature limit the heavier the element is the lower is this limit a star s internal temperature increases as it grows in mass via accretion and absorption of the decay products of cosmic rays gradually reaching the destructive temperature limit of lighter and lighter elements when the internal temperature of the star reaches the destructive temperature limit of iron there is a type i supernova explosion this is because there is so much iron present and that is related to the structure of iron atoms and the atom building process which larson explains in some of his books better than i can when the star explodes the lighter material on the outer portion of the star is blown outward in space at less than the speed of light the heavier material in the center portion of the star was already bouncing around at close to the speed of light because of the high temperature the explosion pushes that material over the speed of light and it expands outward in time which is equivalent to inward in space and it often actually disappears for a while over long periods of time both masses start to fall back gravitationally the material that had been blown outward in space now starts to form a red giant star the material that had been blown outward in time starts to form a white dwarf star both stars then start moving back toward the main sequence from opposite directions on the h r diagram the chances of the two masses falling back into the exact same location in space making a single lone star again are near zero they will instead form a binary system orbiting each other according to larson a white dwarf star has an inverse density gradient is densest at its surface because the material at its center is most widely dispersed blown outward in time this eliminates the need to resort to mathematical fantasies about degenerate matter neutron stars black holes etc larsonian solar system formation if the mass of the heavy material at the center of the exploding star is relatively small then instead of a single white dwarf star there will be several mini white dwarf stars revolving around the red giant star but probably still too far away in three dimensional time to be affected by its heat etc these will become planets in chapter of the universe of motion larson used all this information and other principles of his comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe to derive his own version of bode s law black hole fantasy i heard that physicist stephen w hawking recently completed a theoretical mathematical analysis of two black holes merging together into a single black hole and concluded that the new black hole would have more mass than the sum of the two original black holes such a result should be recognized by everyone as a red flag causing widespread doubt about the whole idea of black holes etc after reading physicist dewey b larson s books about his comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe especially his book the universe of motion it is clear to me that black holes are nothing more than mathematical fantasies the strange object at cygnus x is just an unusually massive white dwarf star not the black hole that orthodox astronomers and physicists so badly want to prove their theory by the way i do not understand why so much publicity is being given to physicist stephen hawking the physicists and astronomers seem to be acting as if hawking s severe physical problem somehow makes him wiser it does not i wish the same attention had been given to physicist dewey b larson while he was still alive widespread publicity and attention should now be given to larson s theory books and organization the international society of unified science electro magnetic propulsion i heard of that concept many years ago in connection with ufo s and unorthodox inventors but i never was able to find out how or why they work or how they are constructed i found a possible clue about why they might work on pages of the book basic properties of matter by the late physicist dewey b larson which describes part of larson s comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe i quote one paragraph as indicated in the preceding chapter the development of the theory of the universe of motion arrives at a totally different concept of the nature of electrical resistance the electrons we find are derived from the environment it was brought out in volume i larson s book nothing but motion that there are physical processes in operation which produce electrons in substantial quantities and that although the motions that constitute these electrons are in many cases absorbed by atomic structures the opportunities for utilizing this type of motion in such structures are limited it follows that there is always a large excess of free electrons in the material sector material half of the universe most of which are uncharged in this uncharged state the electrons cannot move with respect to extension space because they are inherently rotating units of space and the relation of space to space is not motion in open space therefore each uncharged electron remains permanently in the same location with respect to the natural reference system in the manner of a photon in the context of the stationary spatial reference system the uncharged electron like the photon is carried outward at the speed of light by the progression of the natural reference system all material aggregates are thus exposed to a flux of electrons similar to the continual bombardment by photons of radiation meanwhile there are other processes to be discussed later whereby electrons are returned to the environment the electron population of a material aggregate such as the earth therefore stabilizes at an equilibrium level note that in larson s theory uncharged electrons are also massless and are basically photons of light of a particular frequency above the unit frequency spinning around one axis at a particular rate below the unit rate unit velocity is the speed of light and there are vibrational and rotational equivalents to the speed of light according to larson s theory i might have the above and below labels mixed up larson is saying that outer space is filled with mass less un charged electrons flying around at the speed of light if this is true then the electro magnetic propulsion fields of spacecraft might be able to interact with these electrons or other particles in space perhaps giving them a charge and mass and shooting them toward the rear to achieve propulsion in larson s theory an electrical charge is a one dimensional rotational vibration of a particular frequency above the unit frequency superimposed on the rotation of the particle the paragraph quoted above might also give a clue to confused meteorologists about how and why lightning is generated in clouds suppression of larsonian physics the comprehensive general unified theory of the physical universe developed by the late physicist dewey b larson has been available for more than years published in in his first book the structure of the physical universe it is totally un scientific for hawking wheeler sagan and the other sacred priests of the religion they call science or physics or astronomy etc as well as the scientific literature and the education systems to totally ignore larson s theory has they have larson s theory has excellent explanations for many things now puzzling orthodox physicists and astronomers such as gamma ray bursts and the nature of quasars larson s theory deserves to be honestly and openly discussed in the physics chemistry and astronomy journals in the u s and elsewhere and at least the basic principles of larson s theory should be included in all related courses at uw ec uw madison cambridge cornell university and elsewhere so that students are not kept in the dark about a worthy alternative to the dogma they are being fed for more information answers to your questions etc please consult my cited sources especially larson s books un altered reproduction and dissemination of this important partial summary is encouraged robert e mcelwaine b s physics and astronomy uw ec
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re boom whoosh david fuzzy wells wdwells nyx cs du edu wrote i love the idea of an inflatable mile long sign it will be a really neat thing to see it explode when a bolt or even better a westford needle comes crashing into it at clicks a sec boom whooooooooshhhhhh sputter sputter okay pretend it would make a sound just a thought let s pretend it is inflated and pressurized wouldn t there be a large static electricity build up around the puncture if the metalization is behind a clear sandwich ie insulated then the deflating balloon would generate electrical interference noise by the way any serious high velocity impact would simply cut a bugs bunny hole through the wall highly unlikely to boom and the fabric would almost certainly be ripstop regards robin kenny a private and personal opinion not in any way endorsed authorised or known by my employers what the heck would i know about space i m stuck at the bottom of this huge gravity well
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nasa ames server was re space station redesign jsc alternative in article apr aio jsc nasa gov kjenks jsc nasa gov ken jenks nasa writes i just posted the gif files out for anonymous ftp on server ics uci edu sorry it took me so long to get these out but i was trying for the ames server but it s out of space how ironic bill higgins beam jockey treat your password like fermi national accelerator laboratory your toothbrush don t let bitnet higgins fnal bitnet anybody else use it internet higgins fnal fnal gov and get a new one every span hepnet higgins six months cliff stoll
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re command loss timer re galileo update alan carter writes on april a no op command was sent to reset the command loss timer to hours its planned value during this mission phase this activity is regularly reported in ron s interesting posts could someone explain what the command loss timer is the name is rather descriptive it s a command to the spacecraft that tells it if you don t hear from earth after hours assume something is wrong with your the spacecraft attitude and go into a preprogrammed search mode in an attempt to reacquire the signal from earth the spacecraft and earth are not in constant communication with each other earth monitors the telemetry from the spacecraft and if everything is fine there s no reason to send it any new information but from the spacecraft s point of view no information from earth could mean either everything is fine or that the spacecraft has lost signal acquisition just how long should the spacecraft wait before it decides that something is wrong and begins to take corrective action that how long is the command loss timer during relatively inactive cruise phases the command loss timer can be set to rather long values in this case earth is telling galileo expect to hear back from us sometime within the next hours
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re gamma ray bursters where are they i assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the event and the r law so if the r law is incorrect assume some unknown material dark matter inhibits gamma ray propagation could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic events happening much closer to us the even distribution could be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays being shorter then the thickness of the disk of the galaxy just some idle babbling jim batka work email batkaj ccmail dayton saic com elvis is home email jbatka desire wright edu dead years is minutes and a minute is a long time beatles yellow submarine
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re life on mars in article apr aio jsc nasa gov kjenks gothamcity jsc nasa gov writes i know it s only wishful thinking with our current president but this is from last fall is there life on mars maybe not now but there will be daniel s goldin nasa administrator august ken jenks nasa jsc gm space shuttle program office kjenks gothamcity jsc nasa gov lets hear it for dan goldin now if he can only convince the rest of our federal government that the space program is a worth while investment i hope that i will live to see the day we walk on mars but we need to address the technical hurdles first if there s sufficient interest maybe we should consider starting a sci space group devoted to the technical analysis of long duration human spaceflight most of you regulars know that i m interested in starting this analysis as soon as possible ken khayash hsc usc edu usc school of medicine class of
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re what counntries do space surveillance the european space agency has involvement with remote earth observation and i presume this includes surveillance optical etc so it s not just the us ussr ex who are in the game but what is the game what can be done with space observation the military functions of missile spotting troop spotting etc are well documented but what about anything else the biggest eg i can think of is to get a metal sensing sat over a paying country and scan their territory for precious metals more importantly if radar can spot water vapour clouds presumably a radar based sat will be capable of spotting rivers open water and underground water from space this would be a positive life saver for african or other drought affected countries implementing a clean water and irrigation program would be of imense benifit to such countries and should cut down mortalities considerably so how about it is there a charity or government agency that would pay for a third world country to have their minerals and water deposits mapped or is this still sci fi mail replies would be great thought for the day thermal energy needs water to make steam so sstick it in the ocean marvin batty djf uk ac cov cck and they shall not find those things with a sort of rafia like base that their fathers put there just the night before at about o clock
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why not give billion to first year lo original to keithley apple com g day keithley apple com apr keithley apple com wrote to all kc keithley apple com craig keithley via kralizec kc but back to the contest goals there was a recent article in aw st about a kc low cost it s all relative manned return to the moon a general kc dynamics scheme involving a titan iv shuttle to lift a centaur upper kc stage lev and crew capsule the mission consists of delivering two kc unmanned payloads to the lunar surface followed by a manned mission kc total cost us was billion joint esa nasa project was kc billion for the us share kc moon for a year hmmm not really practical anyone got a kc cheaper better way of delivering tonnes to the lunar surface within kc the decade anyone have a more precise guess about how much a year s kc supply of consumables and equipment would weigh why not modify the gd plan into zurbrin s compact moon direct scheme let one of those early flight carry an o plant and make your own ta ralph golded origin vulcan s world sydney australia
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re sex education in article mar athos rutgers edu swansond nextnet ccs csus edu dennis swanson writes in article mar athos rutgers edu heath athena cs uga edu terrance heath writes when i do programs i spend about half the time talking about absitinence i find that most people who object to sex education actually object to the teaching anything other than abstinencne and that imo is just as irresponsible as only talking about comdom use i m under the impression that most sex ed instructors and or policy makers actually object to making any more than a passing reference to abstinence wishing to spend time only on the realistic choices in the sex ed portion of the high school health course i took in it was impressed that the only positive way to not get pregnant was to not have sex other methods of contraception were discussed in the framework of a chart which showed both the expected failure rate theoretical assumes no mistakes and the actual failure rate based on research top of the chart was something like this method expected actual failure rate failure rate abstinence and nfp natural family planning was on the bottom the teacher even said i ve had some students tell me that they can t use anything for birth control because they re catholic well if you re not married and you re a practicing catholic the top of the list is your slot not the bottom even if you re not religious the top of the list is safest yes this was a public school and after dr koop s failing abstinence use a condom statement on the prevention of aids jen include stdisclaimer jenk microsoft com msdos testing
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pantheism environmentalism hi i m new to this group and maybe this has been covered already but does anybody out there see the current emphasis on the environment being turned unintentionally of course into pantheism i ve debated this quite a bit and while i think a legitimate concern for the planet is a great thing i can easily see it being perverted into something dangerous as evidence may i quote the wall street journal of all things april editorial page we suspect that s because one party to the environmental dispute thinks the earth is sanctified it s clear that much of the environmentalist energy is derived from what has been called the religious left a secular or even pagan fanaticism that now worships such gods as nature and gender with a reverence formerly accorded real religions emphasis mine thoughts reactions harangues
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re technology in article apr athos rutgers edu cathye cs uq oz au writes i am fairly new to this group i was wondering about people s opinions on ethical uses of the net and of technology in general the classic references in this area are jacques ellul for a liberal evangelical perspective and os guiness for a straight evangelical view if you want to look at non christian sources try alvin toffler as the perennial optimist his views while blatently non christian explore where technology may be going for example there are some chain letters going around which claim to have been written by a christian missionary but which present a misleading image of the christian religion this is regardless of technology be careful to separate the issues of related to speed and dispersion of technology how far the letter went and how quickly it got there and the message being passed in the technology something that seems to be totally wrong how can we help to make best use of computer technology when lecturing in this area i challenge my non christan atheistic class about the impact technology has on life quality of life and the rights that they consider important depending on how you work out your faith will determine your response to the use of technology for example friends of mine are considering ivf due to a life threatening situation the wife is going through when it is over they will have the baby god willing in this case the technology is available and my friends have to decide what to do in all cases though you must decide if the technology is against god s revealed word regards david david morgan university of technology sydney morgan socs uts edu au po box broadway nsw ph broadway sydney fax i paid good money to get my opinions you get them for free v
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seven castaways w gilligan seven deadly sins gilligan sloth skipper anger thurston howell iii greed lovey howell gluttony ginger lust professor pride mary ann envy
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daily verse therefore whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven matthew
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re elder brother in article apr athos rutgers edu rexlex fnal gov writes in article apr athos rutgers edu shrum hpfcso fc hp com matt go therefore to the main highways and as many as you find there invite to the wedding feast hmmmmmm sounds like your theology and christ s are at odds which one am i to believe in this parable jesus tells the parable of the wedding feast the kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king which made a marriage for his son so the wedding clothes were customary and given to those who chose to attend this man refused to wear the clothes the wedding clothes are equalivant to the clothes of righteousness when jesus died for our sins those clothes were then provided like that man it is our decision to put the clothes on
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does god love you i have come across what i consider to be an excellent tract it is a bit lengthy for a posting but i thought i d share it with all of you anyway feel free to pass it along to anyone whom you feel might benefit from what it says may god richly bless those who read it d o e s g o d l o v e y o u q what kind of question is that anyone who can read sees signs tracts books and bumper stickers that say god loves you isn t that true a it is true that god offers his love to the whole world as we read in one of the most quoted verses in the bible for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life john however god s love is qualified the bible says the way of the wicked is an abomination unto the lord but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness proverbs for the lord knoweth the way of the righteous but the way of the ungodly shall perish psalm q but i am not wicked i am a decent moral person surely the good i have done in my life far outweighs whatever bad i have done how can these verses apply to me a by god s standard of righteousness even the most moral person is looked upon by god as a desperate sinner on his way to hell the bible teaches that no one is good enough in himself to go to heaven on the contrary we are all sinners and we are all guilty before god as it is written there is none righteous no not one there is none that understandeth there is none that seeketh after god romans the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked who can know it jeremiah q if i am such a wicked person in god s sight what will god do to me a the bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will come under eternal punishment in a place called hell for a fire is kindled in mine anger and shall burn unto the lowest hell and shall consume the earth with her increase and set on fire the foundations of the mountains i will heap mischiefs upon them i will spend mine arrows upon them they shall be burnt with hunger and devoured with burning heat and with bitter destruction i will also send the teeth of beasts upon them with the poison of serpents of the dust deuteronomy q oh come on now hell is not real is it surely things are not that bad a indeed hell is very real and things are that bad for the individ ual who does not know the lord jesus christ as savior the bible makes many references to hell indicating that it is both eternal and consists of perpetual suffering and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire revelation so shall it be at the end of the world the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just and shall cast them into the furnace of fire there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth matthew when the lord jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not god and that obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord and from the glory of his power thessalonians q that is terrible why would god create a hell a hell is terrible and it exists because god created man to be accountable to god for his actions god s perfect justice demands payment for sin for the wages of sin is death romans for we must all appear before the judgment seat of christ that every one may receive the things done in his body according to that he hath done whether it be good or bad corinthians but i say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment matthew q does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought to life again to be judged and then to be sent to hell a indeed it does that is unless we can find someone to be our substitute in bearing the punishment of eternal damnation for our sins that someone is god himself who came to earth as jesus christ to bear the wrath of god for all who believe in him all we like sheep have gone astray we have turned every one to his own way and the lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all isaiah but he was wounded for our transgressions he was bruised for our iniquities the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed isaiah for i delivered unto you first of all that which i also received how that christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures corinthians for he hath made him to be sin for us who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of god in him corinthians q are you saying that if i trust in christ as my substitute who was already punished for my sins then i will not have to worry about hell anymore a yes this is so if i have believed in christ as my savior then it is as if i have already stood before the judgment throne of god christ as my substitute has already paid for my sins he that believeth on the son hath everlasting life and he that believeth not the son shall not see life but the wrath of god abideth on him john q but what does it mean to believe on him if i agree with all that the bible says about christ as savior then am i saved from going to hell a believing on christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in our minds with the truths of the bible it means that we hang our whole lives on him it means that we entrust every part of our lives to the truths of the bible it means that we turn away from our sins and serve christ as our lord no man can serve two masters for either he will hate the one and love the other or else he will hold to the one and despise the other ye cannot serve god and mammon matthew repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the lord acts q are you saying that there is no other way to escape hell except through jesus what about all the other religions will their followers also go to hell a yes indeed they cannot escape the fact that god holds us account able for our sins god demands that we pay for our sins other religions cannot provide a substitute to bear the sins of their followers christ is the only one who is able to bear our guilt and save us neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved acts jesus said i am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto the father but by me john if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness john q now i am desperate i do not want to go to hell what can i do a you must remember that god is the only one who can help you you must throw yourself altogether on the mercies of god as you see your hopeless condition as a sinner cry out to god to save you and the publican standing afar off would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven but smote upon his breast saying god be merciful to me a sinner luke sirs what must i do to be saved and they said believe on the lord jesus christ and thou shalt be saved acts q but how can i believe on christ if i know so little about him a wonderfully god not only saves us through the lord jesus but he also gives us the faith to believe on him you can pray to god that he will give you faith in jesus christ as your savior for by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of god ephesians god works particularly through the bible to give us that faith so if you really mean business with god about your salvation you should use every opportunity to hear and study the bible which is the only word of god in this brochure all verses from the bible are within indented paragraphs give heed to them with all your heart so then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of god romans q but does this mean that i have to surrender everything to god a yes god wants us to come to him in total humility acknowledging our sinfulness and our helplessness trusting totally in him the sacrifices of god are a broken spirit a broken and a contrite heart o god thou wilt not despise psalm because we are sinners we love our sins therefore we must begin to pray to god for an intense hatred of our sins and if we sincerely desire salvation we will also begin to turn from our sins as god strengthens us we know that our sins are sending us to hell unto you first god having raised up his son jesus sent him to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities acts q doesn t the bible teach that i must attend church regularly and be baptized will these save me a if possible we should do these things but they will not save us no work of any kind can secure our salvation salvation is god s sovereign gift of grace given according to his mercy and good pleas ure salvation is not of works lest any man should boast ephesians q what else will happen at the end of the world a those who have trusted in jesus as their savior will be transformed into their glorious eternal bodies and will be with christ forever more for the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of god and the dead in christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the lord thessalonians q what will happen to the earth at that time a god will destroy the entire universe by fire and create new heavens and a new earth where christ will reign with his believers forever more but the day of the lord will come as a thief in the night in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up nevertheless we according to his promise look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness peter q does the bible give us any idea of when the end of the earth will come a yes the end will come when christ has saved all whom he plans to save and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come matthew q can we know how close to the end of the world we might be a yes god gives much information in the bible concerning the timing of the history of the world and tells us that while the day of the lord will come as a thief in the night for the unsaved it will not come as a thief for the believers there is much evidence in the bible that the end of the world and the return of christ may be very very close all the time clues in the bible point to this for when they shall say peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape thessalonians surely the lord god will do nothing but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets amos q but that means judgment day is almost here a yes it does god warned ancient nineveh that he was going to destroy that great city and he gave them forty days warning and jonah began to enter into the city a day s journey and he cried and said yet forty days and nineveh shall be overthrown jonah q what did the people of nineveh do a from the king on down they humbled themselves before god repented of their sins and cried to god for mercy but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth and cry mightily unto god yea let them turn every one from his evil way and from the violence that is in their hands who can tell if god will turn and repent and turn away from his fierce anger that we perish not jonah q did god hear their prayers a yes god saved a great many people of nineveh q can i still cry to god for mercy so that i will not come into judg ment a yes there is still time to become saved even though that time has become very short how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation which at the first began to be spoken by the lord and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him hebrews in god is my salvation and my glory the rock of my strength and my refuge is in god trust in him at all times ye people pour out your heart before him god is a refuge for us psalm a r e y o u r e a d y t o m e e t g o d a book entitled written by harold camping presents biblical information that we may be very near the end of time for information on how to obtain a copy or to receive a free program guide and list of radio stations on which you can hear our gospel programs please write to family radio oakland california the united states of amer ica or call the foregoing is a copy of the does god love you tract printed by and available free of charge from family radio a number of minor changes have been made to its layout to facilitate computer printing and distribution the only change to the text itself is the paragraph which describes the way in which biblical passages appear within the text in the original tract they appear in italic lettering they appear here as indented paragraphs i have read mr camping s book compared it with what the bible actual ly says find it to be the most credible research with respect to what the future holds that i have ever come across and agree with him that there is just too much data to ignore while none of us is guaranteed one more second of life and while we therefore should take these matters very seriously regardless of when christ will actually return it would appear that our natural tendency to postpone caring about our eternal destiny until we feel that our death is imminent is even more senseless now because in all likelihood the law of averages with respect to life expectancy no longer applies if you wish to obtain a copy of this book so that you can check out these facts for yourself you may find the following information helpful title author harold camping publisher vantage press distributor baker and taylor isbn i have chosen to share this tract with you because i whole heartedly agree with everything it declares and feel that now perhaps more than ever before this information must be made known to paraphrase acts it does not shun to declare unto us all the counsel of god i am always willing to discuss the eternal truths of the bible with anyone who is interested as i believe them to be the only issues of any real importance since we will spend comparatively speaking so little time on this side of the grave and so much on the other feel free to get in touch with me at any time e mail davem bnr ca office home dave mielke grenon avenue ottawa ontario canada k b g
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re dead sea scrolls dhancock teosinte agron missouri edu denis hancock writes a very nice article on the dss which i thought answered david cruz uribe s original queries quite well here are some books i have read recently that helped me not only prepare for a week series i taught in sunday school but greatly increased my knowledge of the qumran scrolls one other recent book i would heartily recommend is joseph fitzmyer s response to questions about the dead sea scrolls paulist fitzmyer is one of the preeminent modern nt scholars he was also one of the early workers on the dss his book is written in a straightforward q a that allows it to serve as a source for a great wealth of clearly presented basic up to the moment information about the dss this book is something of a companion volume to raymond brown s response to questions about the dead sea scrolls nichael pop quiz what s wrong with the cover of this book
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quality of catholic liturgy i would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my wife and me lately liturgy in particular catholic liturgy in the last few years it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during mass it s driving me crazy the most grace filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is that what happens is something we all do together because we all know how to do it led by the priest of course which makes it a kind of dialogue we present to god but the best masses i ve been to were participatory prayers lately i think the proportion of participation has fallen and the proportion of sitting there and watching or listening or generally being told what to do which is necessary because no one knows what s happening next is growing example last sunday palm sunday we went to the local church usually on palm sunday the congregation participates in reading the passion taking the role of the mob the theology behind this seems profound when we say crucify him we mean it we did it and if he came back today we d do it again it always gives me chills but last week we were invited to sit during the gospel passion and listen besides the orwellian invitation i was really saddened to have my and our little role taken away this seems typical of a shift of participation away from the people and toward the musicians readers and so on new things are introduced in the course of the liturgy and since no one knows what s happening the new things have to be explained and pretty soon instead of doing a lot of the mass we re just sitting there listening or spacing out in my case to how the mass is about to be done in my mind i lay the blame on liturgy committees made up of lay experts but that may not be just i do think that a liturgy committee has a bias toward doing something rather than nothing that s just a fact of bureaucratic life even though a simpler liturgy may in fact make it easier for people to be aware of the lord s presence so we ve been wondering are we the oddballs or is the quality of the mass going down i don t mean that facetiously we go to mass every thursday or friday and are reminded of the power of a very simple liturgy to make us aware of god s presence but as far as the obligatory sunday masses maybe i should just offer it up has anyone else noticed declining congregational participation in catholic masses lately john murray
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re prophetic warning to new york city regarding david wilkerson s prophecies while i m not real sure of his credibility i do remember a book he wrote called a vision or something like that he made a prediction that people who bought gold would be hurt financially at the time gold was up to about now it is less than half that this prediction stuck in my mind because a lot of people where i worked were buying gold the problem is we tend to remember predictions that come true and forget ones that didn t a la jean dixon does anyone know if there any of his predictions perhaps from the book i mentioned that can pretty definitely be said to have not come true fred gilham gilham csl sri com peace is only better than war when it s not hell too war being hell makes sense walker percy the second coming
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re prayer in jesus name munns cae wisc edu scott munns writes i am doing a dormitory bible discussion with my christian roommate and of the non christian guys on my floor they are very close to accepting christ so we have started to disciple them treat them like baby believers and go into more indepth subjects than the parables etc our first discussion was on prayer eventually we got around to how we should pray in jesus name then an excellent question came up one that i don t have a real answer to the question was if we need to pray in jesus name what about the people before jesus they prayed to god and he listened then in spite of their sins why can t it be the same way now i ll take a try at this from the discussions i have been in and from how i have interpreted the bible i feel that one can pray either way but remember this before jesus the people talked to god no other way and he talked back audible and dreams etc today we have the bible to know gods will and we have his son you died for us he was given as our savior and while we still do things according to gods will we pray through his son in the bible it says that if we are not known to jesus we are not known to god sorry i do not have the verses with me so if we are to be granted eternal life we must present ourselves to jesus first who will then present us to god leonard this space intentionally left blank
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request for research subjects please excuse the interruption i am seeking pro life activists to fill out a page questionnaire on attitutes opinions and activities if you would be willing to participate in this research please email me privately at kste purccvm bitnet all replies and questionnaires will be made anonymous prior to printout and will be kept confidential thank you very much for your help kerry at purdue note that i don t normally accept postings on abortion so this isn t an invitation to a discussion in this group clh
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re deification aaron bryce cardenas writes basically the prophet s writings make up the old testament the apostles writings make up the new testament these writings recorded in the bible are the foundation of the church hayesstw risc unisa ac za steve hayes writes that seems a most peculiar interpretation of the text the apostles and prophets were people rather than writings and there were new testament prophets as well who built up the churches remember the ot doctrine of witnesses perhaps the prophets testified he is coming the apostles testified he came after all what does prophesy mean secondly what is an apostle answer an especial witness one who is suppose to be a personal witness that means to be a true apostle one must have christ appear to them now lets see when did the church quit claiming
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daily verse be devoted to one another in brotherly love honor one another above yourselves romans
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re revelations in article apr athos rutgers edu topcat tom tredysvr tredydev unisys com tom albrecht writes now as to the suggestion that all prophecy tends to be somewhat cyclical can you elaborate i m not exactly sure what you mean how does the suggestion relate to isaiah s prophecy of the birth of christ by a virgin i don t see any cycles in that prophecy maybe cyclical is not the best word that is one aspect of it in the case of the virgin birth prophecy it applied to the then and there and also prophetically to christ the army that threatened the king would cease to be a threat in a very short time yet it also prophecied of christ several prophecies that refered to christ also had application at the time they were made out of egypt have i called my son refers both to israel and prophetically to christ why do the heathen rage was said of david and also of christ another example would be the scripture quoted of judas and his bishoprick let another take another example is something that isaiah said of his disciples which is also applied to christ in hebrews the children thou hast given me how does the preterist view account for this phenomenon link link hudson
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re sin in article apr athos rutgers edu jadaley cwis unomaha edu jill anne daley writes what exactly is a definition of sin and what are some examples how does a person know when they are committing sin anything that does not bring me closer to god is a sin if you think this is too strict just consider how ambiguous it is this implies that staying the same is a sin a christian should never be satisfied it does not imply that having fun is a sin it does not imply that sleeping is a sin it does imply that i sin every day a perhaps simpler definition anything that is counter to the two great commandments love god love your neighbor is a sin anything i do that is not from love is a sin the same action can be a sin sometimes and not a sin sometimes i could yell at my kids as discipline all the time loving them considering only to teach them proper behavior or i could yell at my kids out of anger or selfishness i could post an excellent article because i am interested in sharing my opinions and getting feedback and learning or i could post an article because i want everyone to realize how wise i am chris mussack
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re opinions asked about rejection william mayne mayne pipe cs fsu edu wrote in article apr athos rutgers edu jayne mmalt guild org jayne kulikauskas writes people who reject god don t want to be wth him in heaven we spend our lives choosing to be either for him or against him god does not force himself on us i must say that i am shocked my impression has been that jayne kulikaskas usually writes this much less offensive and ludicrous than this i am not saying that the offensiveness is intentional but it is clear and it is something for christians to consider jayne stands in pretty good company c s lewis wrote a whole book promoting the idea contained in her first sentence quoted above it is called the final divorce excellent book on the subject of heaven and hell highly recommended it s an allegory of souls who are invited indeed beseeched to enter heaven but reject the offer because being with god in heaven means giving up their false pride joe kellett jkellett netcom com
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re prophetic warning to new york city in article apr athos rutgers edu evensont spot colorado edu evenson thomas randall writes which brings me around to asking an open question is the bible a closed book of scripture is it okay for us to go around saying god told me this and jesus told me that wouldn t that imply that god is still pouring out new revelation to us i know that some people will feel that is okay and some will not the concept of a closed canon would certainly cast a shadow on contemporary prophets on the other hand an open canon seems to be indicated sometimes there are a lot of people running around saying god told me this and god told me that these days some people really have heard god and others heard their glands mario murrillo mentioned this in a sermon once he said someone told him the lord gave me a song he said that it was the worst song he had ever heard i know why he gave you that song murillo said he didn t want it anymore but god does still speak to his people today and the idea is contrary to the idea of a closed cannon ireneaus wrote about all the gifts of the spirit in the church of his day nd and rd century and he was one of the first to put forth a new testament cannon which was almost identical to the one we have today he believed in a closed cannon many prophets prophesied prophecies which were not recorded in the scriptures for example one prophet in kings whose name starts with an m who prophecied that the king would lose a battle that is the only prophecy he gave recorded in scripture and we no that he had given other prophecies because the king complained before he heard the prophecy he never prophesies anything good about me yet only one little paragraph of all of his lifetime of prophecies are recorded in scripture there are numerous examples barnabas was a prophet acts says before he was even sent out as an apostle yet his writings are not recorded in scripture only two of agabus prophecies are mentioned in scripture he was already a prophet before he gave them so prophecy may be genuine and from god but that does not make it scripture also interesting to note is that some so called prophecies are nothing new but rather an inspired translation of scripture is it right to call that prophecy misleading wouldn t that be more having to do with knowledge i don t know about translations of scripture but i am familiar with prophecies that give applications for scripture there are also similar examples in the bible several times peter interprets prophecies in a seemingly prophetic way for example and his bishoprick let another take concerning judas office a clearer example can be found in matthew jesus is prophesying about what will happen before his return and he quotes a passage out of joel about the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood so scriptural prophecy can be used in later prophecy sometimes this sort of thing can cross over into being a word of knowledge but gifts of the spirit seem to overlap words of knowledge and wisdom can overlap the word of knowledge and prophecy can overlap interpretation of tounges is very similar to prophecy healings are often considered miracles so sometimes the distinction between gifts is a bit hazy imho it doesn t usually matter that much if we are able to label a phenomenon as long as we recognize them as the work of the spirit and use them according to his leading link hudson
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re christians and aids in article apr athos rutgers edu marka travis csd harris com mark ashley writes in article apr athos rutgers edu kevin pictel pictel com kevin davis writes many christians believe in abstinence but in a moment will be overcome by desire we all compromise and rationalize poor choices sin last week i was guilty of anger jealousy and whole mess of other stuff yet i am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with aids to even suggest that aids is deserved is ludicrous some rules are made because at some point man is too stupid to know better yet eventually man learns but only after getting a lesson from experience yes it s important to realize that all actions have consequences and that rules were made for our own good but to suggest that a disease is a punishment for certain types of sin i think is taking things much too far if we got some kind of mouth disease for lying would any of us have mouths left what if we developed blindness every time we lusted after someone or something i dare say all of us would be walking into walls i wonder if aids would be a problem now if people didn t get involved in deviant sexual behaviour certainly people who received tainted blood are not to blame but it just goes to show that all mankind is affected by the actions of a few yes sin can have terrible consequences but we need to be real careful when saying that the consequences are a punishment for sin the jews of jesus s time believed that all sickness was the result of a sin then jesus healed a blind man and said that man was blind to show the glory of god not because of sin if aids or any other std is a punishment for sexual sin what do we do with diseases like cancer or multiple sclerosis which are just as debilitating and terrible as aids yet are not usually linked to a specific behavior or lifestyle in addition imho forgiveness is not the end of things there is still the matter of atonement is it aids i don t know atonement is extremely important but i think you ve missed the mark about as far as you can by suggesting that aids is an atonement for sin the atonement for sin is jesus christ period this is the central message of the gospel a perfect sacrifice was required for our sins and was made in the lamb of god his sacrifice atoned for all of our sins past present and future god does not require pennance for our sins nor does he require us to come up with our own atonement he has graciously already done that for us to suggest that aids or some other consequence is an atonement for sins is literally spitting on the sacrifice that jesus made in case you couldn t tell i get extremely angry and upset when i see things like this instead of rationalizing our own fears and phobias we need to be reaching out to people with aids and other socially unacceptable diseases whether they got the disease through their own actions or not is irrelevant they still need jesus christ no more and no less than we do i ve said this before but i think it s a good analogy people with aids are modern day lepers jesus healed many lepers he can also heal people with aids maybe not on this earth but in an ultimate sense my next door neighbor has aids she has recently come to have a much deeper and more committed relationship with god her theology isn t what i would want it to be but god s grace covers her the amazing thing is that she is gaining weight she s had the disease for over years and her health is excellent apart from occassional skin rashes and such she attributes her improvement in her health to god s intervention in her life who are we to suggest that her disease is some kind of punishment it seems to me that god is being glorified through her disease paul overstreet the country singer has a good song title that i think applies to all of us but for the grace of god there go i or something like that may we all experience and accept god s grace mark ashley disclaimer the opinions expressed marka gcx ssd csd harris com here are my own they do not uunet gcx marka reflect the opinion or policies the lost los angelino of harris corporation paul conditt internet conditt titan tsd arlut utexas edu applied research phone fax laboratories fedex burnet road austin texas university of texas postal p o box austin texas austin texas the most wonderful place in texas to live ttttttttttttttt ttt ttt ttt ttt ttttttttttttt texas tech lady raiders tt ttt tt swc champions ttt ncaa national champions ttt ttttttt
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re essene new testament william christie asked about the essene nt andrew kille reponded there is a collection of gospels which usually goes under the name of the essene gospel of peace these are derived from the gnostics not the essenes and are ostensibly translations from syriac texts of the fourth and fifth centuries i vaguely recall i can t find my copy right now clh there had been recent criticism of this in a listserv for academic biblical scholars they all say the book s are modern fakes d h
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anybody out there i seldom see any posts in this group is anyone out there in christendom listening if so why don t we get some dialog going here here s a topic to get things started my daughter s christian school sends home a weekly update on school related topics this week they sent something very interesting it was an article written by the leader of a national us christian school organization about a trip he recently made to jerusalem while there he was introduced to one of the rabbis who is working on a project to rebuild the temple at jerusalem the article included photos of the many furnishings that have already been made in preparation for furnishing the rebuilt temple according to the specifications given in the bible what was even more striking is the fact that the plans for the temple are complete and the group is only awaiting permission from the israeli government before beginning the building the other startling fact is the very recent archeological discovery that the original site of the temple is unoccupied and available for building previously it has been thought that the original site was underneath what is now a mosque making rebuilding impossible without sparking a holy war now it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming sacrifices as the scriptures indicate will happen in the last days although the israeli government will give the permission to start i think it is the hand of god holding the project until he is ready to let it happen brothers and sisters the time is at hand our redemption is drawing near look up postings are in the range of to per day except weekends if people aren t seeing that we ve got propagation problems clh
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prayer in jesus name hmm makes you wonder whether prayer in jesus name means saying jesus name or whether we re simply to do all things with the attitude that we belong to jesus frank d
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re what did lazarus smell like in the discussion as to why jesus spoke aloud the lazarus come out i m surprised that no one has noticed the verse immediately preceeding jn father i thank you for listening to me though i knew that you always listen to me but i have said this for the sake of the people that are standing around me that they may believe that you have made my your messenger goodspeed translation my guess is that the lazarus come out was also for the sake of the crowd tim rolfe rolfe dsuvax dsu edu rolfe junior dsu edu rolfet columbia dsu edu
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re did he really rise in article apr athos rutgers edu emery tc fluke com john emery writes much of the excellent post deleted for space tjl with all the suffering and persecution that it meant to be a believer it would be quite probable that at least one of those in the supposed conspiracy would come forward and confess that the whole thing was a big hoax yet not one did it seems rather reasonable that the disciples did not make up the resurrection but sincerely believed that jesus had actually risen from the dead especially in light of the sufferings that came upon those who believed i was at the jubilee conference this year in pittsburgh pa and the speaker there spoke of this as well he talked about many of the same things you mentioned in your post but here he went into a little more detail i ll paraphrase as best i can suppose you were part of the christian consipracy which was going to tell people that christ had risen never mind the stoning the being burned alive the possible crucifixion let s just talk about a scourging the whip that would be used would have broken pottery metal bone and anything else that they could find attached to it you would be stood facing a wall with nothing to protect you when the whip hit you the first time it would tear the flesh off you with instant incredibly intense pain you would think to yourself all this for a lie the second hit would drop you to your knees you would scream out in agony that your raw back was being torn at again you would say to yourself all this for a lie and you had more coming at the third hit you would scream out that it was all a lie beg for them to stop and tell them that you would swear on your life that it had all been a lie if they would only stop it is amazing enough that those who believed kept their faith under such torture but for a lie there is no one fool enough to do that and no one came forward excellent post john thanks for taking the time tj luoma luomat alleg edu god be merciful to i have fought a good fight me a sinner st luke i have finished my course for me to live is christ and i have kept the faith tim to die is gain philippians
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questions from a newbie is life a pass fail course and does god grade on a curve i m new here and only vaguely religious but i want to know what some of you people think specifically are there an infinite number of heavens and a person goes to the one that he she deserves or is it simply heaven or nothing hell also are we graded by those around us or has there always been some unchanging method is the person s childhood taken into account i m sure these must sound like over simplifications to most of you but i figure that you re the experts quinn eschatology is an area on which christians do not agree i suspect that s because our primary source of information is prophets and visionaries and their writings tend to be highly symbolic however both jesus teachings in the gospels and books such as the revelation to john talk primarily about the difference between eternal life and eternal death on a number of occasions jesus does say things that imply some sort of differentiation e g lk and a number of similar passages where jesus says things like even xxx will be better off than you in the judgement also i cor talks about someone who gets into heaven but by the skin of his teeth as it were but these passages are not normally interpreted as suggesting separate heavens so much as differing levels of prestige or punishment in heaven or hell and not all christians would even go as far as that the only christian group i know of that believes in multiple heavens is the mormons and they are very far from mainstream christianity far enough that many of our readers would not call them christian their ideas in this area involve specific mormon revelations in addition to the bible and holy tradition of a more generic christian sort note that many christians will cringe at the very thought of associating grading with god the whole point of christ was to free us from the results of a test that we couldn t possibly pass if you like test analogies god grades on a very strict and unbending scale but he also cheats he replaces our test papers with an exam that was prepared by the teacher before actually doing the grading because some people end up in heaven and others in hell it s easy to see why you d be inclined to think of it as grading while there are differences among branches of christianity on details i think we all agree that in one way or another god cheats i am personally very sceptical about anyone who claims to know exactly how far god s cheating extends will he accept people who don t explicitly acknowledge christ but somehow still follow him in their hearts many christians believe that this is possible at least in principle but certainly not all do jesus provided us with a clear description of how to be saved but it s not clear to me that he provided an exact description of how he s going to place the dividing line certainly he made it clear that we can t expect to know whether other individuals are saved or not clh
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re prophetic warning to new york city evensont spot colorado edu evenson thomas randall writes yes i suppose it is true that people make mistakes it is interesting to note that in those long ago ot days if you weren t correct in your prophecies people got very mad and you were no longer believed even put to death this is one of the differences between ot prophecy and nt prophecy in the nt it is expected that when believers gather people will prophesy the prophecy must be judged cor there is nothing about killing someone who makes a mistake to say that we make mistakes is true to say that we make mistakes while filled with the spirit is not true were that true the entire bible having been written by men inspired by god would be subject also to those errors for what is prophecy but like those revelations given in scripture scripture is scripture there is no gift of scripture and i don t know about you but i know that i have made mistakes while filled with the spirit if you don t give grace to allow people to make mistakes they will never grow in the use of the spiritual gifts when we minister in my small group i encourage people to speak out any impressions or images they think might be from the lord only by trying will they know whether they were right or wrong and in either case they ll have a better handle on it the next time didn t you fall when you were learning to ride a bicycle but you kept on trying and you learned both from your failures and your successes spiritual gifts are no different you get better with experience which brings me around to asking an open question is the bible a closed book of scripture is it okay for us to go around saying god told me this and jesus told me that wouldn t that imply that god is still pouring out new revelation to us i know that some people will feel that is okay and some will not the concept of a closed canon would certainly cast a shadow on contemporary prophets on the other hand an open canon seems to be indicated sometimes the canon of scripture is complete does this mean that god no longer speaks i have heard his voice not audibly though some have but clearly nonetheless is what i heard equivalent to scripture no i have never heard contemporary prophets claim that what they receive from the lord is on the same level as scripture on the contrary those who are mature obey the scriptures by submitting their prophecies to fellow believers for judgement and the most reliable yardstick for judging prophecies is certainly the scriptures themselves the canon is closed but god is not silent also interesting to note is that some so called prophecies are nothing new but rather an inspired translation of scripture is it right to call that prophecy misleading wouldn t that be more having to do with knowledge i know the gift of knowledge may not be as exciting to talk about but shouldn t we call a horse a horse does it matter what it is called the question is not how to label it but how to receive it words of knowledge incidentally are similar to prophecy and sometimes the two overlap but generally it is supernatural knowledge of some fact that could not be known otherwise jon reid he is no fool who gives what he cannot keep reid cs uiuc edu to gain what he cannot lose jim elliot
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re ancient books i sent in something on this before but i believe it got lost in the weekend accident the moderator described this is an improved version anyway so no loss the first time hl the standard work on detecting forgeries of ancient documents is probably the writing of friedrich blass hermeneutrik und kritik einleitende und hilfsdisziplinen vol of handbuch der klassischen altertums wissenshaft noerdlingen beck portions of this are described in nibley the prophetic book op mormon pp slc deseret book if you want to attempt reading this be forewarned nibley describes blass as a typical german scholar who claims little knowledge of his subject then proceeds to exhaust both the subject and the reader nibley s extract from blass s work is in the form of rules for forgers it makes interesting reading i confess that i have not read blass s work only nibley s extract thereof my german falls far short of what would be required and as far as i know there is no english translation available however i believe the techniques he describes are known widely enough that any competent classical scholar could examine a purportedly ancient document and at least determine if it is consistent with what one would expect of a genuine document of that time frame we will not be able to prove who wrote it but at least we should be able to determine with reasonable confidence if it is from that time and culture or is a later forgery actually there are types of purportedly ancient documents alleged actual holographs or early copies thereof for example the dead sea scrolls these can be tested by various scientific means to determine the age of the paper inks and objects found with them this can provide a pretty clear dating of the actual physical objects documents claiming to be copies of ancient works although the copy itself may be much more recent for example we might find a document which monks in a monastary claim is a copy of something from centuries ago perhaps even having been through several generations of copists this is more of a problem but can still be tested although the test is not likely to be simple we cannot expect a test of the age of the physical objects to tell us much so we must confine our testing to the text itself it is important to remember that none of these tests can tell us if the document is really what it claims to be they can only date the document and identify its culture of origin for example i ve heard of a letter supposed to have been written by jesus himself to a king in what is now iraq if this document were to actually turn up scholars could date the paper and ink assuming they have the holograph they could check the language content and writing style to see if they are consistent with what would be expected of a palestinian jew of that time however even if all test results were positive there is no way to determine if jesus himself actually wrote it we would know what time and culture it came from but barring a known sample of jesus handwriting or other clues for comparison scholarship must stop there there is seldom any way to determine who the actual author was as i say i m no expert on blas s work i do remember some of the tests which can be applied to alleged copies of ancient works specifically we might ask is the document internally consistent does it contradict itself if the work it is short it would be relatively easy to maintain internal consistency even if it is a forgery the longer the forgery the more difficult it is to maintain consistency for this reason most successful forgers stick to short documents is it consistent with the history and geography of the time again a short non specific work might not be testable but if the writing is of any significant length no latter day forger would be able to escape detection here we look for the minor inconspicuous things which someone from that culture would get right without even thinking about it but which a later forger would find too numerous and trivial to check the devil is in the details what about the literary style of the work figures of speech etc any ancient writer would almost certainly speak in ways that seem strange to us are there any such odd phrases in this book if so do they fit in with the culture of course there are complications if the document has been translated or possibly even if somebody just updated language when he copied it a few cases of language not from the culture claimed may be allowed in recent copies they cause problems and reduce certainty to be sure but don t necessarily prove forgery these tests can be quite effective given enough material to work with but they are not easy they require the skills of the historian the linguist the anthropologist etc the questions to ask are is every aspect of this document consistent with what we know about the culture of claimed origin if there are things which don t fit how significant are they are problem areas due to our lack of knowledge later changes by copists or are they really significant there will often be some ambiguity since we never know everything about the culture the end result of any such testing is occasionally certain particularly in the case of holographs or other ancient copies however often it may just be a probability or an indication that the document or maybe parts of it is probably authentic or sometimes maybe other parts are later additions this is often unsettling to a generation raised on tv where all problems are solved in to minutes with time out for commercials it is however the real world and what scholarship has to offer
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re is christian a dirty word in article mar athos rutgers edu usceast cs scarolina edu moss cs scarolina edu james moss writes i was brought up christian but i am not christian any longer i also have a bad taste in my mouth over christianity i in my own faith accept and live my life by many if not most of the teachings of christ but i cannot let myself be called a christian beacuse to me too many things are done on the name of christianity that i can not be associated with a question for you can you give me the name of an organization or a philosophy or a political movement etc which has never had anything evil done in its name you re missing a central teaching of christianity man is inherently sinful we are saved through faith by grace knowing that believing that does not make us without sin furthermore not all who consider themselves christians are even those who manage to head their own churches not everyone who says to me lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven matt i also have a problem with the inconsistancies in the bible and how it seems to me that too many people have edited the original documents to fit their own world views thereby leaving the bible an unbelievable source again what historical documents do you trust do you think hannibal crossed the alps how do you know how do you know for sure what historical documents have stood the scrutiny and the attempts to dis credit it as well as the bible has i don t have dislike of christians except for a few who won t quit witnessing to me no matter how many times i tell them to stop but the christian faith organized religion will never as far as i can see at the moment get my support well it s really a shame you feel this way no one can browbeat you into believing and those who try will probably only succeed in driving you further away you need to ask yourself some difficult questions is there an afterlife and if so does man require salvation to attain it if the answer is yes the next question is how does man attain this salvation can he do it on his own as the eastern religions and certain modern offshoots like the new age movement teach or does he require god s help if the latter in what form does indeed in what form can such help come needless to say this discussion could take a lifetime and for some people it did comprise their life s writings so i am hardly in a position to offer the answers here merely pointers to what to ask few of us manage to have an unshaken faith our entire lives certainly not me the spritual life is a difficult journey if you ve never read a pilgrim s progress i highly recommend this greatest allegory of the english language peace and love in god ess s name james moss now i see by your close that one possible source of trouble for you may be a conflict between your politcal beliefs and your religious upbringing you wrote that i in my own faith accept and live my life by many if not most of the teachings of christ well christ referred to god as my father not my mother and while the maleness of god is not the same as the maleness of those of us humans who possess a y chromosome it does not honor god to refer to him as female purely to be trendy non discriminatory or politically correct this in no way disparages women nor is it my intent to do so by my use of the male pronoun to refer to both men and women english just does not have a decent neuter set of pronouns after all god chose a woman as his only human partner in bringing christ into the human population well i m not about to launch into a detailed discussion of the role of women in christianity at am with only hours of sleep in the last and for that reason i also apologize for any shortcomings in this article i just happened across yours and felt moved to reply i hope i may have given you and anyone else who finds himself in a similar frame of mind something to contemplate karl dussik
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re the arrogance of christians in article apr athos rutgers edu vbv r d eeap cwru edu virgilio dean b velasco jr wrote we affirm the absolutes of scripture not because we are arrogant moralists but because we believe in god who is truth who has revealed his truth in his word and therefore we hold as precious the strategic importance of those absolutes pardon me a humble atheist but exactly what is the difference between holding a revealed truth with blind faith as its basis i e regardless of any evidence that you may find to the contrary as an absolute truth fully expecting people to believe you and arrogance they sound like one and the same to me and nearly every time i meet a christian or for that matter any other theist who tries to convert me i find this proven over and over again i see no wisdom whatsoever in your words unfaithfully yours pixie p s if you do sincerely believe that a god exists why do you follow it blindly do the words question authority mean anything to you i defy any theist to reply
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accepting jeesus in your heart firstly i am an atheist i am not posting here as an immature flame start but rather to express an opinion to my intended audience the meaning of my existence is a question i ask myself daily i live in fear of what will happen when i die i bet some of you are licking your lips now because you think that i m a person on the edge of accepting jeezus i was raised in a religious atmosphere and attended years of religious educational institutions i know the bible well so well i can recognize many passages from memory strong opinions start here the human being is an animal who has due to his her advanced mental facilities developed religious as a satisfiable solution to explain the unexplainable for example the ancient greeks believed that apollo drove his chariot across the sky each day was real due to the advancement of our technology we know this to be false christianity is an infectious cult the reasons it flourishes are because it gives people without hope or driven purpose in life a safety blanked to hide behind oh wow all i have to do is follow this christian moral standard and i get eternal happiness for all of you found jeezus how many of you were on the brink but i digress the other reason christianity flourishes is its infectious nature a best friend of mine breifly entered a christian group and within months they set ministry guidelines for him which basicaly said this priority spread the word we are just animals we need sleep food and we reproduce and we die religion especially christianity is nothing more than a drug some people use drugs as an escape from reality christians inject themselves with jeezus and live with that high it pities me how many millions of lives have been lost in religious wars of which christianity has had no small part when christians see a non believer they say that person is blind to the truth but they cannot realize that it is they who live with this mask of fakeness each day jesus was just prophet who happened to have a large influence because at that time the romans were circa ad dispersing the jewish population and communities needed some sort of cohesive element to keep them strong in that time of dire need i must go these are but a few of my thoughts on christianity damien endemyr the unpure knight of doom so i ve acquired a taste for blood and have adopted a nocturnal lifestyle that doesnt mean i m a vampire
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re the arrogance of christians vbv r d eeap cwru edu virgilio dean b velasco jr writes i just thought i d share some words that i received in a letter from moody bible institute a couple of months ago the words are by james m stowell the president of mbi the other day i was at the dry cleaner and the radio was playing it caught my attention because a talk show guest was criticizing evangelical christians saying we believe in absolutes and think we are the only ones who know what the absolutes are he missed the point no imo mr stowell missed the point we affirm the absolutes of scripture not because we are arrogant moralists but because we believe in god who is truth who has revealed his truth in his word and therefore we hold as precious the strategic importance of those absolutes mr stowell seems to have jumped rather strangely from truth to absolutes i don t see how that necessarily follows are all truths also absolutes is all of scripture truths and therefore absolutes if the answer to either of these questions is no then perhaps you can explain to me how you determine which parts of scripture are truths and which truths are absolutes and who is qualified to make these determinations there is hardly consensus even in evangelical christianity not to mention the rest of christianity regarding biblical interpretation i find mr stowell s statement terribly simple minded carol alvin caralv auto trol com
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re ancient books in article apr athos rutgers edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes but since the manuscripts are so close to the actual event especially as compared with ancient non christian history could it help show that we have accurate copies of the original texts that s a very weak argument due the lack with regard to critical events of independent supporting texts as for the dating of the oldest extant texts of the nt how would you feel about the us civil war in a couple of thousand years if the only extant text was written about now now adjust for a largely illiterate population and one in which every copy of a manuscript is done by hand hal hal heydt analyst pacific bell if you think the system is working ask someone who s waiting for a prompt whheydt pbhya pacbell com
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doug sturm is anyone familiar with doug sturm if so please post what you think
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re technology mcovingt aisun ai uga edu michael covington writes the computer is not a fantasyland where one s responsibilities disappear the people on the net are real slander and deception carried out by net are just as wrong as they would be if carried out on paper or face to face well said michael the catholic traditon has a list of behaviours called the spiritual works of mercy admonish the sinner instruct the ignorant counsel the doubtful comfort the sorrowful bear wrongs patiently forgive all injury pray for the living and the dead yes i know there is some controversy on this and i don t want to argue about it these are all things that have a direct application to usenet people ask questions and express doubts some are in need of comfort or prayers imagine what would happen to flame wars if we bore wrongs patiently and forgave injuries i would add that it is probably more appropriate to do any admonishing by private email than publicly jayne kulikauskas jayne mmalt guild org
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re post jono mac ak rtsg mot com jon ogden writes my advice is this if you know someone that you have the hots for who is not a christian befriend them and try to develop just a friendship with them at the same time witness and share the gospel with them not so that you can date them but so that they can be saved once they become a christian then it is quite possible to let the relationship progress beyond friendship however if they don t accept christ you still have a good friendship and you haven t wasted a lot of emotional energy and gotten hurt while i agree with most of jon says i deleted those parts of course i have serious reservations about this advice maintaining a just friends level of relationship is much easier said than done people usually end up getting hurt this is especially likely to happen when they start off with feelings of attraction when people feel attracted those feelings can cloud their judgement i ve had the experience of going quickly from believing that i shouldn t date non christians to believing that dating this man would be okay to believing that premarital sex is fine when people really love each other when the relationship ended my beliefs immediately returned to their original state this is an especially extreme case because i was young and away from home and fellowship i don t think it would work exactly this way for most people however it s important not to underestimate the power of feelings of attraction jayne kulikauskas jayne mmalt guild org
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re pantheism and environmentalism kevxu cunyvm bitnet writes deleted first paragraph and the mention of pantheism is pantheism perverted and dangerous or just not one s cup of tea none of this is clear i can t speak for mr cavano but i understood his comment to refer to the idea that unrecognized pantheism is dangerous to christians if we unthinkingly adopt pantheistic ideas that are opposed to christianity we can pervert our faith when we clearly recognize pantheism when we encounter it we have the opportunity to embrace what is consistent with christianity and reject what isn t we need to be alert always thinking and questioning we must examine the underlying assumptions of every book we read tv program we watch and socio political movement we participate in ideas are important philosophies and doctrines are what give form to the events of our lives they are the basis from which we live our lives of love and service the command to love god with all one s mind means no fuzzy headed drifting from idea to idea and that consumerism and our rapacious style of living are so rarely called by their appropriate name greed one christian who acknowledges this is the pope it is a frequent theme in his writings indeed thoughtful christians from most traditions recognize that consumerism has no place in the lives of christians it too is a perversion and dangerous to our faith thank you jack for pointing out the parallel jayne kulikauskas jayne mmalt guild org
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easter what s in a name was re new testament double standard seanna bnr ca seanna s m watson writes in quebec french the word for the celebration of the resurrection is pa ques this is etymologically related to pesach passover and the pascal lamb so is the french canadian mostly roman catholic celebration better because it uses the right name i was at my parents seder and noticed the labelling on one of the packages was english hebrew and french in the phrase kosher for passover the french word used was pa ques we ve deliberately mistranslated this at the kulikauskas home and keep referring to foods being kosher for easter back to the original questions in this thread concerning christians of jewish descent and the law i always wonder when i see posts on this subject whether the writers are christians of jewish descent relating the life decisions god has led them to or people who take only an academic interest in the topic having known seanna since she was nine years old i do know in this case i admit that the answer to this question affects the amount of weight i give to the writer s statement jayne kulikauskas jayne mmalt guild org
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re sex education in article apr athos rutgers edu mprc troi cc rochester edu m price writes in apr athos rutgers edu jenk microsoft com jen kilmer writes method expected actual failure rate failure rate abstinence these figures don t seem to take account of rape or is a woman who is raped considered not to have been abstaining i no longer have the textbook but abstinence was defined as something like no contact between the penis and the vagina vulva or area immediately surrounding the vulva and no transfer of semen to the vagina vulva or area surrounding the vulva that is abstinence wasn t discussed as sex outside of marriage is morally wrong but as keep the sperm away from the ovum and conception is impossible the moral question i recall the teacher asking was is it okay to create a child if you aren t able to be a good parent yet jen include stdisclaimer jenk microsoft com msdos testing
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weirdness of early christians i am a good catholic boy a convert no less attracted by the rational tradition aquinas et al and the emotional authenticity in comp with the faddishness of anglicanism to roman catholicism i never had much time for the pope or any other heirarchs but i did and do believe in the sacremental system i always felt quite happy to look down my nose at those such as john emery a few posts back who had to engage in circuitous textual arguments to prove their faith entirely oblivious to the fact that a dozen other faiths can do the same with miracles too and that since their arguments depend on the belief in the bible as god s sole revelation it was not very good logic to argue that the bible proved god no i was happy to accept the church as god s revelation it was the church after all that existed before the bible the church that choose under grace of course the canon of scripture protestant ludicrosity i thought was shown by protestants breathtaking acceptance of luther s right to reject a dozen or so books he disliked but recently i read peter brown s body and society it is very well researched and well written but is raises some very upsetting questions the early christians were weird even more so than today s carzy fundies they had odd views on sex odder views on the body totally ludicrous views about demons and distinctly uncharitable views about other human beings now the question is this were the first christians just as weird but we ve got used to them or did the pristine fall of the church happen within one generation it certainly did nt have to wait until the triumph of the church under constantine if so wha does this say about god s promise to always support the church it s no use throwing the usual protestant pieties about the church not being an organization at me it s a community or it is nothing and it was the early communities that were weird the institional church was a model of sanity by comparison i would be interested in serious catholic and orthodox responses to this entirely serious issue i m not sure it is an issue for protestants with their soul alone with jesus approach but for we who see the ecclesia as a koinoia over time and space the weird early christians are a problem this is an exaggeration of the protestant view many protestants have a strong appreciation for the role of the church the soul alone with god is certainly important for protestants but it s by no means the whole story i have read the sort of history you talk about as you point out protestants don t have quite the same problem you do because we believe that the church had a fall at some point however protestant mythology typically places the fall around the time of constantine or more likely regard it as happening in a sort of cumulative fashion starting from constantine but getting worse as the pope accumulated power during the medieval period the consequences of having it earlier are somewhat worrisome even to us most protestants accept the theological results of the early ecumenical councils including such items as the trinity and incarnation indeed in the works of reformers such as luther and calvin you ll find church fathers such as augustine quoted all the time i think you ll find many protestants resistant to the idea that the early church as a whole was wierd there is an additional problem for protestants that i don t much want to talk about in this context since it s been looked at recently that s the question of whether one can really think of augustine and other fathers as being proto protestants their views on mary the authority of the pope etc are not entirely congenial to protestant thought one thing that somewhat worries me is a question of methodology there are certainly plenty of wierd people in the early church what concerns me is that they may be overrepresented in what we see we see every christian who courted martyrdom but i think there s good reason to believe that most ordinary christians were more prudent than that we see the heroic virgins but i think there s good reason to think that many christians were happily married i can t help suspecting that the early church had the same range of wierdos and sane people that we do now i think there s also a certain level of revisionism active in history at the moment i don t mean that they re manufacturing things out of whole cloth but don t you think there might be a tendency to emphasize the novel clh
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re hell quoth the moderator i have to say that i some qualms about giving you this explanation because it raises additional problems if god is the source of all existence then a complete separation from him would make existence itself impossible so does god maintain just enough connection with those who are rejected to keep them in existence so he can punish them in a short poem god in his mercy made the fixed pains of hell c s lewis expresses an idea that i m sure was current among others but i haven t be able to find its source that even hell is an expression of mercy because god limits the amount of separation from him and hence the amount of agony that one can achieve michael a covington internet mcovingt ai uga edu artificial intelligence programs phone the university of georgia fax athens georgia u s a amateur radio n tmi
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re did he really rise the two historic facts that i think the most important are these if jesus didn t rise from the dead then he must have done something else equally impressive in order to create the observed amount of impact nobody ever displayed the dead body of jesus even though both the jewish and the roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so it would have discredited the christians michael a covington internet mcovingt ai uga edu artificial intelligence programs phone the university of georgia fax athens georgia u s a amateur radio n tmi
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legitimate bawdy humor was re sex education it s a joke in article apr athos rutgers edu lubosh hanuska anu edu au ljh writes well my son the best advice i can give you is this eat a lot of carrots oh do you really think that will work and should it be before or after intercourse instead my son instead disclaimer as a single catholic i didn t have any business to post this kind of joke to this group so if you found it inappropriate but what was wrong with it it won t tempt anyone to any kind of sin as far as i can tell it doesn t belittle anyone it does not substitute offensiveness for humor it s genuinely funny we shouldn t assume that all jokes that mention sexuality are dirty merely because so many are and we should never mistake prudery for spirituality it can be the direct opposite a symptom of the lack of a healthy perspective on god s creation michael a covington internet mcovingt ai uga edu artificial intelligence programs phone the university of georgia fax athens georgia u s a amateur radio n tmi
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re easter what s in a name was re new testament double standard in article apr athos rutgers edu jayne mmalt guild org jayne kulikauskas writes seanna bnr ca seanna s m watson writes in quebec french the word for the celebration of the resurrection is pa ques this is etymologically related to pesach passover and the pascal lamb so is the french canadian mostly roman catholic celebration better because it uses the right name i was at my parents seder and noticed the labelling on one of the packages was english hebrew and french in the phrase kosher for passover the french word used was pa ques we ve deliberately mistranslated this at the kulikauskas home and keep referring to foods being kosher for easter however the word pa ques in french is the word for easter ask any francophone whether from quebec or from paris besides haven t you heard of the phrase the paschal lamb meaning jesus sorry to nitpick on the more trivial part of this thread vera i am your clock i bind unto myself today vera noyes i am your religion the strong name of the noye midway uchicago edu i own you trinity no disclaimer what lard st patrick s breastplate is there to disclaim
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witness proof of christ s resurrection immmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm t h e w i t n e s s p r o o f o f j e s u s c h r i s t s r e s u r r e c t i o n f r o m t h e d e a d hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the witness of the lord jesus christ mark and he began to teach them that the son of man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed and after three days rise again mark for he was teaching his disciples and telling them the son of man is to be delivered into the hands of men and they will kill him and when he has been killed he will rise three days later mark and they will mock him and spit upon him and scourge him and kill him and three days later he will rise again mark but regarding the fact that the dead rise again have you not read in the book of moses in the passage about the burning bush how god spoke to him saying i am the god of abraham and the god of isaac and the god of jacob luke and after they have scourged him they will kill him and the third day he will rise again luke and he said to them thus it is written that the christ should suffer and rise again from the dead the third day john jesus said to her i am the resurrection and the life he who believes in me shall live even if he dies john for as yet they did not understand the scripture that he must rise again from the dead acts explaining and giving evidence that the christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead and saying this jesus whom i am proclaiming to you is the christ the witness of the apostle paul corinthians now i make known to you brethren the gospel which i preached to you which also you received in which also you stand by which also you are saved if you hold fast the word which i preached to you unless you believed in vain for i delivered to you as of first importance what i also received that christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures and that he appeared to cephas then to the twelve after that he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time most of whom remain until now but some have fallen asleep then he appeared to james then to all the apostles and last of all as it were to one untimely born he appeared to me also for i am the least of the apostles who am not fit to be called an apostle because i persecuted the church of god but by the grace of god i am what i am and his grace toward me did not prove vain but i labored even more than all of them yet not i but the grace of god with me whether then it was i or they so we preach and so you believed now if christ is preached that he has been raised from the dead how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead but if there is no resurrection of the dead not even christ has been raised and if christ has not been raised then our preaching is vain your faith also is vain moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of god because we witnessed against god that he raised christ whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised for if the dead are not raised not even christ has been raised and if christ has not been raised your faith is worthless you are still in your sins then those also who have fallen asleep in christ have perished if we have hoped in christ in this life only we are of all men most to be pitied but now christ has been raised from the dead the first fruits of those who are asleep for since by a man came death by a man also came the resurrection of the dead for as in adam all die so also in christ all shall be made alive but each in his own order christ the first fruits after that those who are christ s at his coming then comes the end when he delivers up the kingdom to the god and father when he has abolished all rule and all authority and power for he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet the last enemy that will be abolished is death logical proofs of jesus christ s resurrection jesus s enemies would not have stolen his body because that would have perpetrated the resurrection the very opposite of what they desired jesus disciples could not have stolen his body because pontius pilate established guards to stand watch over the tomb lest his body be stolen sadly and ironically many of jesus disciples did not believe in the resurrection until jesus had risen from the dead in nearly centuries no body has ever been produced to refute jesus assertion that he would indeed rise from the dead the probability of being able to perpetrate such a hoax successfully upon the entire world for nearly centuries is astronomically negative
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re quality of catholic liturgy in apr athos rutgers edu jemurray magnus acs ohio state edu john e murray writes i would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my wife and me lately liturgy in particular catholic liturgy in the last few years it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during mass it s driving me crazy the most grace filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is that what happens is something we all do together because we all know how to do it led by the priest of course which makes it a kind of dialogue we present to god but the best masses i ve been to were participatory prayers having lived through the kicking and screaming in the s and s as the catholics were invited to participate in the liturgy instead of counting their rosary beads during mass i find this comment interesting there is a massively longer tradition for proclaiming the passion accounts without active participation if you know the latin one really beautiful way to hear the passion is it s being chanted by three deacons the narrator chants in the middle baritone range jesus chants in the bass and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor this is actually the basis for the common proclamation of the passion that john would prefer but there is always a judgement call based on pastoral considerations each pastor makes his own decisions it isn t a church wide conspiracy against participation the palm sunday liturgy with its initial blessing and distribution of the palms and procession is already getting long before you get to the passion some pastors feel that they should not make the people stand through that long narrative also the orchestrated proclamation with multiple readers and public participation in the crowd quotations runs longer than the single reader proclamation in churches with multiple masses for the sunday it might be necessary to go with the briefer options just to get em in and get em out each parish is different catholics are no longer canonically tied to their geographic parishes it is possible that another catholic parish in the columbus area based on the ohio state address has a liturgy closer to your preferences or talk to some of your fellow parishioners and see how common your preferences are pastors generally are willing to listen to non confrontational requests though you probably should bring along a paramedic in case he reacts too strongly to the shock of people asked for a longer sunday mass perhaps the problem is that recent liturgical development hasn t follow the continuous evolution model the accumulation of small changes no single one of which is too hard to take but rather the punctuated equilibrium model things stay the same and we get accustomed to them then the marked mutation hits my apologies if i am mis remembering the names of the evolutionary theories tim rolfe rolfe dsuvax dsu edu rolfe junior dsu edu rolfet columbia dsu edu
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re christians and aids in article apr athos rutgers edu marka travis csd harris com mark ashley writes in article apr athos rutgers edu kevin pictel pictel com kevin davis writes many christians believe in abstinence but in a moment will be overcome by desire we all compromise and rationalize poor choices sin last week i was guilty of anger jealousy and whole mess of other stuff yet i am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with aids to even suggest that aids is deserved is ludicrous when man was told not to have sex with relatives did they listen no and man found out why so what s your point mark s comment still is valid to suggest that aids is deserved is ludicrous i sin i can resolve to abstain from sin and do weekly more often actually yet i routinely fail i surely do deserve what i get yet god compassionately provided the incarnate logos jesus as a rememdy and a way out of our situation if aids is deserved i surely deserve instant death just as much as do we all as st paul so cogently remids us to willingly judge others as deserving punishment seems to me to be the height of arrogance and lack of humility i wonder if aids would be a problem now if people didn t get involved in deviant sexual behaviour certainly people who received tainted blood are not to blame but it just goes to show that all mankind is affected by the actions of a few so what s the point here i can get aids and never engage in deviant sexual behavior in fact i could engage in lots of deviant sexual behavior with hiv people and never be infected aids is a consequence of particular behaviors many of which are not sexual and not all sexual behaviors carry the risk of transmission in addition imho forgiveness is not the end of things there is still the matter of atonement is it aids i don t know the end of all things is to know love and serve god growing daily closer through prayer meditation and discipline even so i could get aids anyone could unless they remain forever celibate iv drug free and transfusion free larry overacker llo shell com lawrence overacker shell oil company information center houston tx llo shell com
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re christians and aids paul conditt writes yes it s important to realize that all actions have consequences and that rules were made for our own good but to suggest that a disease is a punishment for certain types of sin i think is taking things much too far text deleted yes sin can have terrible consequences but we need to be real careful when saying that the consequences are a punishment for sin i wish that you had followed this thread before jumping to conclusions i haven t seen anybody write that aids was a punishment for certain types of sin this includes mark ashley who you were responding to here i myself wrote that when you don t do things god s way that curses will come on you and others although one definition of curse is retribution i only meant harm or misfortune when i used the word because god loves us he has told us the best way to live in his bible god doesn t cause curses he warns us of them kevin davis wrote a while ago last week i was guilty of anger jealousy and whole mess of other stuff yet i am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with aids to even suggest that aids is deserved is ludicrous the bible makes it clear that we all equally deserve death which is much worse than aids we have all hurt god with our sin paul conditt reveals his feelings in case you couldn t tell i get extremely angry and upset when i see things like this instead of rationalizing our own fears and phobias we need to be reaching out to people with aids and other socially unacceptable diseases whether they got the disease through their own actions or not is irrelevant they still need jesus the first issue you bring up is your anger it is obvious ly wrong to be angry gal for any reason especially extremely angry which is on par with hatred jesus has every reason to be angry at us for putting him on the cross with our sin yet his prayer was forgive them father they know not what they do knowing how forgiving jesus has been with me calls me to be more forgiving with everyone out of love for him please don t give in to anger it will only cause foolish quarrels and more bad feelings it s okay if you read something that bothers you but you need to address it in a loving way if right now i felt like someone out there was saying that god punishes gay or sexually immoral people with aids because they deserve punishment that others don t then i would frame a response something like this it makes me feel very sad for someone to believe that aids which is simply a harmful disease not so unlike any other is god s punishment for people who have committed certain sins god loves all of his children equally and rejoices when a single one comes back to him we will all be judged after we die but until then we all have the opportunity to accept god s grace by earnestly seeking after him with all of our hearts believing the gospel s testimony repenting of our sin confessing that jesus is lord at baptism and living a new life for him let us not judge someone to be eternally condemned god s arm is not to short to save he will do anything he can to move a hardened heart or a misled person he works for the good of all men even through the worst of situations he has set the times and places for all men that they may perhaps reach out and find him the second issue you bring up is seeing people rationalize their fears of people with aids fortunately what you describe as seeing is actually misperceiving you have been missing the points made in the earlier posts and reacting in anger to attitudes that haven t been expressed i know that its sometimes hard to discount your perceptions but please try to be open minded you are quite correct in saying that we should reach out to all people because they all need jesus this is what my brothers and sisters and i do on a daily basis if you would like to send me the name of the city and state you live in i will find and get you in touch with some brothers who have aids or know people with aids and live nearby you so that you can see the loving attitudes for yourself the third issue you bring up is the importance of how some individual contracted aids how someone gets aids is only relevant to their salvation in that there may be repetence involved the important point to be made however is that not listening to god s commands or advice or warnings i e sinning causes harm or misfortune to yourself and others for this reason a good way to prevent the misfortune of aids which can be transmitted in sinful ways is to listen to god s advice and have sex only with your wife or husband i hope that you are feeling better now paul love aaron cardenas
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re essene new testament in apr athos rutgers edu harwood umiacs umd edu david harwood writes there had been recent criticism of this in a listserv for academic biblical scholars they all say the book s are modern fakes d h which listsev was this and is the discussion still current my questioning is based on some information presented from the essene nt that challenges some of my eating choices as the info came from a biased opposed to my preferences third party i am looking for info as to whether i should dismiss this work or put some consideration into it thanks again for info will christie aatchoo philosophy the principles and university of manitoba uh oh science of thought and reality winnipeg mb canada i m leaking philosopher someone who thinks chrstie ccu umanitoba ca brain lubricant they re useful to society
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re pantheism environmentalism in article apr athos rutgers edu jono mac ak rtsg mot com jon ogden writes so we see that we are masters of this planet it is ours to care for and ours to look after we will be judged on how well we do this task c we are not to be in the business of spreading lies what we tell others we must be sure is true we should check out the information verify it with scientific fact and go from there just what are these scientific facts i have never heard of such a thing science never proves or disproves any theory history does tim timothy j brent a man will come to know true happiness brent bank ecn purdue edu only when he accepts that he is but a small part of an infinite universe purdue university spinoza materials science engineering paraphrased i hope we don t get embroiled in a discussion over words here when somebody says get the facts i m not sure we need to get into arguments over the philosophy of science clh
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re prayer in jesus name in article apr athos rutgers edu munns cae wisc edu scott munns writes eventually we got around to how we should pray in jesus name then an excellent question came up one that i don t have a real answer to the question was if we need to pray in jesus name what about the people before jesus they prayed to god and he listened then in spite of their sins why can t it be the same way now and in that day you will ask me no question truly truly i say to you if you shall ask the father for anything he will give it to you in my name until now you have asked for nothing in my name ask and you will receive that your joy may be made full john i don t believe that we necessarily have to say in christ s name amen for our prayers to be heard but it glorifies the son when we acknowledge that our prayer is made possible by him i believe that just as those who were saved in the ot could only be saved because jesus would one day reconcile god to man he is the only reason their prayers would be heard by god for all of us have become like one who is unclean and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment and all of us wither like a leaf and our iniquities like the wind take us away isaiah nas our prayers like the rest of our deeds are too unholy to go directly to the father because they are tainted by our sin only by washing these prayers with christ s blood are they worthy to be lifted to to the father first i thank my god through christ jesus romans nas some scholars believe that this is paul recognizing that even his thanks are too unholy for the father basically prayer is a gift of grace i believe that only through jesus do our prayers have any power thus praying in his name glorifies and praises jesus for this beautiful and powerful gift he has given us carter c page of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom a carpenter s apprentice and to hold god in awe this is the law that cpage seas upenn edu seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down we learn when we are old adapted from sophocles
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re easter what s in a name was re new testament double standard seanna bnr ca seanna s m watson writes since the day upon which most christians celebrate the resurrection of jesus is approaching i thought i would comment on this in article mar athos rutgers edu dsegard nyx cs du edu daniel segard writes what is the objection to celebration of easter it is celebration of the resurrection of jesus i don t recall a command in scripture for us to celebrate the resurrection but it is the sole and only reason that we are christians how could we not celebrate it if it is only the name not quite correct biblical teaching expects us to celebrate the resurrection of christ not once a year but every time someone is baptized col buried with him in baptism wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of god who hath raised him from the dead rom therefore we are buried with him in baptism into death that like as christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father even so we also should walk in newness of life those really want to celebrate the resurrection should by faith walk in newness of life after baptism it is not necessary to celebrate a pagan goddess in the process so as we see from scripture those who are of israel will observe the th day forever the gentiles who believe in the messiah of israel are welcome to observe the th day as well but it is not required of them since the are adopted into the commonwealth of israel the gentiles who are grafted into the commonwealth of israel are only required to observe the basic commands given to those who came before abram see also acts no further requirements are placed upon them once they come to faith in messiah so from this i infer that there are different rules for christians of jewish descent what happened to there is neither jew nor greek slave nor free male nor female for all are one in christ jesus jewish christians messianics may find certain forms of worship and certain disciplines meaningful because of their cultural background but i have a hard time understanding the justification for applying rules or commandments to those who have been justified by grace through faith in jesus christ paul answered your question in romans in v he stated that the adoption the glory the covenants the giving of the law the service of god and the promises were given to the israelites it is a package deal he goes on to identify those who are true israelites vs makes it plain that the true israelites are not those who are born that way but those who accept the promise of god paul continued to emphasize that he was an israelite in cor then in gal he says that all those who belong to christ are abraham s seed and heirs to all the promises given to the israelites the promises come with the law it is all or nothing why is it that you only want to discard one part of the law certainly you would want your husband to be faithful to you or do you believe that adultery is no longer forbidden same law btw please give a reference for your statement that the gentiles are only required to observe the basis commandmants could you list those please acts deals with circumcision and the law of moses which was added because of transgression of god s eternal law gal rom darius a lecointe i got my ba when i was born again department of educational research and my ma when i was made anew florida state university now i m getting my phd as i become tel a patient humble disciple e mail dlecoint garnet acns fsu edu
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re accepting jeesus in your heart in article apr athos rutgers edu gsu uxa ecn bgu edu eric molas writes firstly i am an atheist atheist drivel deleted untitled a seed is such a miraculous thing it can sit on a shelf forever but how it knows what to do when it s stuck in the ground is what makes it so clever it draws nutrients from the soil through it s roots and gathers its force from the sun it puts forth a whole lot of blossoms and fruit then recedes itself when it is done who programmed the seed to know just what to do and who put the sun in the sky and who put the food in the dirt for the roots and who told the bees to come by and who makes the water to fall from above to refresh and make everything pure perhaps all of this is a product of love and perhaps it happened by chance yeah sure johnny hart cartoonist for b c carter c page of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom a carpenter s apprentice and to hold god in awe this is the law that cpage seas upenn edu seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down we learn when we are old adapted from sophocles
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re reason vs revelation in article apr athos rutgers edu trajan stephen mcintyre writes in article apr athos rutgers edu writes i can only reply with what it says in timothy i m not here to discount parts of the bible rather i m here only to discount the notion of revelation the author of timothy told what he thought was the truth based on his belief in god his faith in jesus as the resurrected son and his readings of the old testament but again what had been revealed to him was based on at best second hand information given by friends and authors who may not have given the whole truth or who may have exaggerated a bit first of all the original poster misquoted the reference is from tim the author was paul and his revelations were anything but at best second hand and is came about that as saul journeyed he was approaching damascus and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him saul saul why are you persecuting me and he said who art thou lord and he said i am jesus whom you are persecuting acts nas paul received revelation directly from the risen jesus pretty cool eh he became closely involved with the early church the leaders of which were followers of jesus throughout his ministry on earth now you may say the holy spirit revealed these things unto him and we could go into that argument but you d be hard pressed to convince me that the holy spirit exists i agree i don t believe anyone but the spirit would be able to convince you the spirit exists please don t complain about this being circular i know it is but really can anything of the natural world explain the supernatural this is why revelation is necessary to the authors of the bible additionally what he has written is again second hand info if it were given by the spirit and still carries the chance it is not true the spirit is part of god how much closer to the source can you get the greek in timothy which is sometimes translated as inspired by god literally means god breathed in other words god spoke the actual words into the scriptures many theologians and bible scholars dr james boice is one that i can remember off hand get quite annoyed by the dryness and incompleteness of inspired by god the only way you would be able to escape this notion of second hand info is to have had the entire bible written by god himself and to tell the truth i ve studied the bible extensively and have yet to hear of scholars who have put forth objective evidence showing god as the first author of this collection of books that s what the verse taken from timothy was all about the continuity of a book written over a span of years by more than authors from all walks of life is a testimony to the single authorship of god and as for reason read what it says in corinthians about human wisdom basically it says that human wisdom is useless when compared with what god has written for our learning if you knew of jesus as well as you know the bible you d realize he reasoned out the law and the prophets for the common man what source to you claim to have discovered which has information of superior historicity to the bible certainly not josephus writings or the writings of the gnostics which were third century at the earliest and though some claim jesus was he was human with all of the human wisdom the apostle paul set out to criticize yet would you not embrace the idea that jesus was wise jesus was fully god as well that s why i d assert that he is wise i realise that you may not accept the authority of the bible this is unfortunate to say the least because there is no other way of learning about god and christ and god s purpose with the earth than reading the bible and searching out its truth for yourself for your information i was raised without any knowledge of god by the time some of the faithful came to show me the word and share with me its truth i was living happily and morally without acknowledging the existence of a supreme being i have though read the bible several times over in its entirety and have studied it thoroughly it contains truth in it and i consider jesus to be one of the most moral of human beings to have lived in fact i darn near idolize the guy but there s no rational reason for me to except god s existence please rethink this last paragraph if there is no god which seems to be your current belief then jesus was either a liar or a complete nut because not only did he assert that god exists but he claimed to be god himself regards to c s lewis how then could you have the least bit of respect for jesus in conclusion be careful about logically unfounded hypotheses based on gut feelings about the text and other scholars unsubstantiated claims the bible pleads that we take it in its entirety or throw the whole book out about your reading of the bible not only does the spirit inspire the writers but he guides the reader as well we cannot understand it in the least without the spirit s guidance for to us god revealed them through the spirit for the spirit searches all things even the depths of god cor nas peace and may god guide us in wisdom carter c page of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom a carpenter s apprentice and to hold god in awe this is the law that cpage seas upenn edu seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down we learn when we are old adapted from sophocles other theologians get quite annoyed at the misleadingess of god breathed it s true that the greek word has as its roots god and breath however etymology doesn t necessarily tell you what a word means otherwise goodbye would be a religious expression since it comes from god be with ye you have to look at how the word was actually used in this case the word is used for wisdom or dreams that come from god but god breathed is an overtranslation clh
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re salvation by deeds another guess to your salvation riddle would be saved joe fisher
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re deification in article apr athos rutgers edu holfeltz lstc vm stortek com writes aaron bryce cardenas writes after all what does prophesy mean secondly what is an apostle answer an especial witness one who is suppose to be a personal witness that means to be a true apostle one must have christ appear to them now lets see when did the church quit claiming actually an apostle is someone who is sent if you will mailmen could be called apostles in that sense however with jesus they were designated and were given power remember that there were many thousands of people who witnessed what jesus did that didn t make them apostles though joe fisher
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re revelations he doesn t contradict himself the church is to last for all time however there are those who use the church to bolster themselves this is evident in many letters for instance paul talks about the super apostles to the corinthians corinthians he mentions how people will be led away by miracles signs and wonders thessalonians he tells timothy that it is clear that some will abandon the faith and teach lies timothy and that some will search for teachers to suit what they want to hear timothy such passages go throughout the letters and jesus does warn about them matthew but look at the promise in this last part verse and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations and then the end will come even today there are false teachings i can name two which i am well familiar with the non need of baptism and the praying of jesus into your life for salvation both are taught both are dead wrong they have been taken out of context from some verses interpreted from others and just plain made up the only way jesus taught is given in luke and luke he then commands baptism in matthew the church jesus founded though is alive and well it s not being persecuted as much as back then the laws won t allow it yet but it is being persecuted joe fisher peace lou lou nunez e mail lnunez vaxa stevens tech edu ps ps dn ml ad altare dei ad deum qui laetificat juventutem meam cor mt cor luke
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