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Lol you think policy doesn't overlap with personal preference? You think trump doesn't back le pen as a matter of policy?
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
[Macron campaign team used honeypot accounts to fake out Fancy Bear](https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/05/macron-campaign-team-used-honeypot-accounts-to-fake-out-fancy-bear/) Pretty interesting article here, where the Macron team publicised (one of) their counter-measures against cyber attacks. We can see further development of cyber warfare in the near future.
geopolitics
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I fucking hate Le Pen, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to charge her with breaking this law, and the law itself sounds kinda dumb to me.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
So why is he demanding this? Le Pen or whoever non Muslim person has no obligation to cover their head just because this person wants to. See I'm not arguing in favor of Le Pen, fuck LP tbh, she's a Russian puppet populist, but the point stands. Why would the scarf be mandatory?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Yes, if I had to choose one populist that can win in Europe, it'd be Le Pen, she seems to be the most dangerous one to me.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Good job, Macron. This would be a huge victory, but to do so with a brand new party? It's a hell of an accomplishment. They're being predicted to get up to 445 seats out of 577 seats. And the cherry on top is Le Pen's fascist party is getting 4 seats, at most.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I've not yet decided if Macron is more alike Obama, Clinton or Trudeau. I guess analogies can only take you so far.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
You're limited to what you can say on Twitter and so far all I've seen is "there are leaks" there's nothing specific, except for maybe tax evasion, but given that Le Pen is taking money from the Russians & the EU that's far more corrupt and there's been of an investigation....whoever leaked this information didn't think about the timing. They didn't want Macron to be able to respond, but it just makes the leak unintelligible.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
but Fillon is the one advocating for smaller government and more room in the private market
Conservative
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
AHAHAHHAHAHAH! Le Pen just said she's never insulted someone for their religion. IN WHAT WORLD
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
>The parliament suspects some €5m (£4m; $5.4m) went to assistants of Ms Le Pen's National Front (FN) who were not working for MEPs but were actually engaged in FN party work in France. Basically, Le Pen may have been inappropriately using taxpayer money to advance her far right nationalist party.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Proportionality
Not Confident
He's not wrong, the question is just would you rather a opportunist Hollande 2.0 more interested in spiting political opponents and enforcing even more bureaucracy, or a representative of the most racist party in western Europe.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
Le Pen and Melenchon personally hate each other, so no, she would not enjoy losing to him.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Considering her background, contacts, funding and personal agenda, supporting Le Pen at this point is extremely difficult to justify from a rational standpoint.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Can I say that Le Pen is retarded? I seriously don't understand how people can support someone so vile and limited to reality.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
Most people put Hilary 30-40 points ahead and gave her a 90% chance of winning. On election day working class people voted Trump and gave him a comfortable lead. Admittedly it's different in France, a country that does not have an electoral college, but communist/leftist voters could choose not to vote which would give Le Pen an advantage.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
>You put Theresa May in the same category as Putin and Le Pen? You put Le Pen in the same category as Putin?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Haven't noticed much about that in the news here. The only reason I've even learned about it, were Russian shills posting her worst photos to show *"how ugly Macron's wife is"*, and some of my FB friends shared those posts.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
yes, because the left of Hamon is very similar to the far left of Mélenchon and the right of Fillon also leans toward the FN.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I just love this kind of argument. Le Pen nationalist - no bueno, dehumanizing people because they don't have higher education - liberty, equality, fraternity.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Care,Equality
Confident
Boring government is how we got geometric zoning and occupational licensing laws. We need to shake things up, like Macron did.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Wow. This is pathetic. Russian propaganda arm? False accusations? Where did Trump endorse Le Pen? Because Obama actually endorsed Macron essentially interfering with a foreign country's election. And I'm assuming everyone here is so against that right?
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I did it with Trump too, won 700€. Won't bet on Le Pen because Trump winning propably taught lefties in europe that they have to do something themselves.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
The polls were accurate, but Le Pen did worse than the average predicted. Poll Average / Actual Result: Macron: 24 / 24 Le Pen: 22 / 21 Fillon: 20 / 20 Melenchon: 19 / 20 Hamon: 8 / 6
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
> Holy shit. How can you call him a traitor when he says colonialism in Algeria was a crime against humanity. Disgusting well, if you think that Jean Marie Le Pen was a fighter in Algeria, you understand why Macron's statement was used against him. FN , while pretending not to be the Petainist, nazi apologist, antisemite homophobic shit it is, still can use the vote of those hard core right wingers nostalgic of the glorious empire.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Purity,Care,Equality
Confident
I recognize Wilders, Le Pen, and Petry. Who are the other two on the left?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Do the unemployed themselves vote for Le Pen, though? Unemployed in Germany (30% of working population) voted communists rather than Hitler. It could be that the feeling of decline in general (not per se among unemployed and the poor themselves) is pushing these people towards radical-right alternatives.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Somewhat Confident
35% of 88% (people who voted for neither Le Pen or Macron) of 75% (actual turnout) So more like 23% of all voters
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I'd say Melenchon has taken a fair few votes from LePen.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
That's Le Pen OP does not know how to form a sentence.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Because a fetish for benefits and working rights is such a bad thing /s Macron will become as popular as Hollande if he reforms too much
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
That's not a good reason because they can just turn it around and say if you want people to live by your rules in your country, you have to live by theirs when you go there. I don't like Le Pen but I support anyone refusing to wear the headscarf because I think their culture is just wrong about that kind of stuff.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Authority
Confident
Do you think the traditional right will vote for Mélenchon? In a Le Pen vs. Fillon scenario, the left will likely stay at home or reluctantly chose for Fillon while in a Le Pen vs. Mélenchon scenario the right will not stay home but chose Le Pen over Mélenchon.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Borth Le pen and Fillon went up??? I will never understand the French.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Fillon - criminal investigation into the use of government funds to allegedly pay his family members for doing fake jobs. The raid is part of this investigation. https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39146848 Le pen - Posted pictures of ISIS brutality as part of her political campaign. This goes against french speech laws, so the french government was trying to take action against her. Le pen claimed diplomatic immunity as a member of the eu parliament, which has revoked her immunity in response. She also faces similar charges to Fillon over the alleged misuse of eu funds to pay her aides. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/02/518127204/marine-le-pen-faces-possible-prosecution-over-graphic-tweets
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Don't you think it makes a pretty long shot ? Le Pen does have chances to be elected (although current political scene is pretty blurry due to Fillon's BS), but after that, she would still have to get France out of NATO and Europe. If (and that's a big if) it actually happens, EU would last for years before falling apart (because Germany).
geopolitics
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
How does it feel to know that your antisemitic piece of trash lost to God emperor Macron?
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
Le Pen is far behind Macron in a 1v1, but she isn't far behind Fillion, and in the first round no one is currently guaranteed to move on. If it's Le Pen vs Fillion who move on then it's not too far fetched that you'll have a copy of the US election.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Sounds like a lot of elections recently tbh, dear leader Macron excepted.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Authority
Somewhat Confident
Macron won with 65,5% of the votes. What a coincidence !
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Yes but he didn't win, that's the point, even if people was but look at Trump! I am not trying to say Le Pen will not win, I am saying she will not win at the first round if nothing crazy happen. Melenchon have as much chance as her to win the first round in this case. Do you think she can win 25% of the vote in two week? In this cas Macron can do this, Melenchon can too, and maybe Hamon will too...
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
After looking through this guy's history, it's clear that he's incoherent. Ignore him, is what I say. He apparently thinks the reason everyone is hating on Trump is because he's taller and heavier than Macron, thus creating a David and Goliath situation, which I'm sure is not true.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
> Before /r/neoliberal Spends lots of time on reddit on a variety of subreddits, often getting exasperated and angry with other users. > After /r/neoliberal Only visits reddit to thank mr. bernke and up-macron dank centrist memes. Has time for other, more wholesome activities. Uh, thanks I guess.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Ugh. I know that it shouldn't, but Piketty's endorsement of Melenchon really reflects poorly on him in my eyes. Like, I get that lefties gotta stick together, but he's normalizing the divisive stupidity that so often accompanies them.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Economically, Le Pen does have a lot of left-wing ideas.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
A lot a misogynist men are salty about this, so Macron is doing awesome.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Somewhat Confident
Oh. That's pretty ignorant in the cultural differences regarding gender between the two countries. Besides, Clinton had a fairly moderate right-leaning platform. Le Pen is radical right. Not really relatable.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
This guy strikes me as really dangerous. Not because he's such a threat in and of himself (I don't know much about him), but because if the runoff election becomes a far-left candidate against Le Pen, Le Pen has a legitimate chance of winning. I suspect Macron would dominate her but if he doesn't make it, things could get real dicey real fast.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
> 53% would vote Jobbik (far right) > And not like Le Pen, Trump, or even Wilders. Like explicitly anti-Semitic far right. Fuuuuuu...
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
>How am I an "idiot"? "Melenchon and Sanders should be sitting in a rotten dank prison." "BTW, Capitalism is more important than democracy." Not even funny anymore.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
That's what it sounds like to me too. The whole Pence conversion therapy thing always seemed like bullshit because it relies on a very extreme interpretation of this sentence.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I'm actually loving macron and his views on things. Not all things.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Although her opponents dismiss her, Le Pen is a formidable force in the impending French election. Appealing to populist, anti-European voters as well as millenials, Le Pen has struck a chord in the French electorate that could shake Europe to its core. France is second only to Greece in its dislike of the European Union, surpassing even Britain. Should Le Pen win, it could sound the death knell of the EU.
geopolitics
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Indeed, Mr Hollande. And you have played your part in maintaining or widening the cracks that threaten those things.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
We're desperate for any candidate at all who isn't a complete ultra conservative on all fronts nutjob, which both Le Pen and Fillon are. Social conservatism is bad enough, but eviscerating the state, ruining it fiscally, and fellating corporations is not something most people look forward to.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
Hello Macron! How does it feel knowing you're gonna lose?
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Yeah man, if we don't stop with this Le Penn might win!
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
> Marine Le Pen will remain in power at the Front National whatever happens. /u/Exotemporal That's assuming the undergoing lawsuit fail. It probably won't. > I could see Philippot make a grab. And you would be wrong. There are two FN. A northern one, and a southern one. The new "north" part of the party is the one that could vote for Phillipot as they are mostly pissed off labor forces. The southern part would never, ever vote for a gay. They were the one already voting for the father's antisemitic rant.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
That's not to say people don't want something serious to be done about this, it's just that thinking Le Pen would be the only one to do so (let alone do it well) is a fallacy.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Is there any real danger of Le Pen actually taking power in France? I have to ask because if people weren't constantly reporting on what this nutcase thinks, maybe it would stop legitimizing her and giving people the impression that she's got anything to say that they really want to elect her for.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
By the way ... I live right next to your country (La petite Suisse, dedieu) and I'm all of a sudden hearing a lot about Macron. Do you have a tl;dr version of why he is suddenly that popular? I would have expected the lead socialist candidate to be Valls instead, from my limited understanding of your politics.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Like Le Pen, he is very anti-establishment and very anti-EU. He is also a communist-endorsed candidate who makes Sanders look like Milton Friedman. Le Pen vs Mélenchon would be the establishment's worst nightmare. Edit: So yeah, my point is: political forces all around the world are shaking not only on the right, but also on the left.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
OP pointed that Macron was looking at Denmark, which GDP grew three times less than France in the last decade.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Macron was a socialist, as is Hollande. It's the majority party
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Well, what you say is true but Le Pen is trash, so anyone openly supporting her probably deserves getting those downvotes.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
It's more publishing images of their deceased loved ones which they can argue or prove has caused them harm. I imagine the family members of those killed by ISIS don't particularly like being used for Marine Le Pen's political ends, even if it's in defense of herself.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Care
Confident
But imagine a clinton/trump similar situation : fillon/lepen, with an investigation or leaked documents that illustrate strong illegal activity from fillon. Are you absolutely sure she would be massively voted against ? (and yes, the historical chirac/lepen tend to show us it could be the case, but mlp is seen as less dangerous/extrem).
geopolitics
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
If Macron doesn't do well, it won't matter. People will get desperate and vote for Le Pen and the like when their concerns are not met. And if it's not Le Pen, it could be someone even more intelligent and well spoken. The European far right has gained a fairly significant following the migrant crisis and increased frequency of terror attacks in the wake of Brexit and the growing popularity for Wilders and Hofer. These 5-10 next years will determine their future.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Putin just made Macron Merkel's biggest ally in shifting European Union away from Russia
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Are you sure Macron does not, in fact, want to stop the terrorist attacks, too, but is aware enough to know that islamophobia will only worsen the issue?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
> he should tell that he will vote Macron because he really doesn't want Le Pen to win Which is just what he did...
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
If you read the article posted by the OP, it says "France’s Directorate-General for External Security (DGSE) believes that Russia will help Le Pen by way of bots that will flood the internet with millions of positive posts about Le Pen — and by publishing her opponents’ confidential emails." That's exactly what happened in the US, which was the point of my original post. The links I posted back that up if you care to actually read them.
geopolitics
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
beware, Macron have some good ideas, but still is a neo-liberal which is preparing a law against labour rules which protect workers from exploitation...
europe
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
In the second Macron takes majority of votes from Fillon, Hamon, Melenchon.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Obama is no longer president, he can endorse whoever the fuck he wants. If Putin came out and publicy supported Le Pen, that's also fine. Spreading lies, hacking emails, and the other skeevy shit Russia did/does is not ok. How does this need to be fucking explained.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
Marine Le Pen will win France, and France will leave the EU. It will collapse under its own weight. The longer the leftist elite ignores their constituency the more traction hard-right factions get among the citizenry. Soon there will be a rising tide of ultranationalism sweeping across Europe if things keep going the way that they are going now.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Somewhat Confident
Yeah so LePen is just nothing alike Trump (not saying i root for her either) and Macron is definitely not alike Hollande. Try again
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
What's the chance of Hamon/Melenchon quitting and endorsing the other so the left have a shot in the second round?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I don't judge Le Pen because of her father, I judge her because of her barbaric white nationalist policies.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Care,Equality
Confident
George Osborne, though he's temporarily stepped back from frontline politics, is the neoliberal par excellence. Honourable mentions to Obama, Clinton, the other Clinton, Macron, and Italy's renzi.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Why is she not on vacation in France? They have many beautiful destinations, does she hate her own country? If she was really patriotic, she would be helping small businesses that depend on tourism, not feed the americans. ^ As someone who listens to a lot of french politics, this is typically something she would say about someone else. Just today she criticised Emmanuel Macron for speaking english.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Loyalty
Confident
[Trump propaganda machine trying their hardest to create divisions with Macron's win.](http://www.allenbwest.com/matt-palumbo/france-just-elected-centrist-macron-liberals-might-not-cheer-discover) Bets as to how many Berniechon bros fall for this?
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
See how unpatriotic these Macron supporters are? Using an American film reference in French politics?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Loyalty
Confident
Make no mistake, Le Pen vs. Mélenchon would also be an absolute disaster for Europe and the EU. Both want France to leave the EU. I hope Macron wins and radically changes French politics, because maintaining the status quo is at least as dangerous as Le Pen or Mélenchon. And if this doesn't end in a complete clusterfuck, we still have to hope Italy won't vote for M5S in the next election.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
Le Pen is the other side of the same coin. Please, Europe, save yourselves and don't fuck it up like we did.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
No. The word voter does not even appear. It doesn't even talk about electors at all. It's not even about the presidential election, but as I said about the upcoming legislatives. Maybe the google translation is weird enough to make it seem like voter fraud (google translation is notoriously bad when it comes to French). Or they were confused by the 'MinInt' (I was too at first). Maybe they're just idiots. I should mention that I support Macron but I don't see how that would impact the understanding of an email in my mother tongue.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
And a massive proportion of us are here right now, just checking on our Macron memes.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
My second is Peña Nieto, Macron is about third. His smile is little bit weird.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Wow I'm pleasantly surprised Macron would do this. Hopefully the economic aid doesnt happen until they are defeated, otherwise you are just giving resources to your enemies and aiding them while you fight them. Crush the terrorists, ignore their apologists, then make the place a little better so the migrants can go home.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Thin Morality
Confident
> I do think the countries want leadership and money. All the calls for "Eurobonds" have been clear revelations of wanting fiscal transfers without the burden of political integration (and a political body that takes the right for budgetary bungling out of the hands of the troubled states). This has been made clear time and time again since 2008. I think it was Hollande who called for eurobonds or fiscal transfers while insisting at the same time he wouldn't give up an ounce of french sovereignty. That is wanting the cake and eating it ...
europe
French politics
annotator02
Proportionality
Somewhat Confident
lol. the markets fully expected macron to win and they had adjusted. what was he expecting?? the first round could have been the same if not for melenchon.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
> "Are you right of, what is generally accepted as, center?" Yes "Fascist, literally Hitler." Wrong! We don't call Fillon, Friedman, Jeb!, May, Merkel, Thatcher, and others on the right fascists. It's not a partisan sub.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Using Kremlin-started hashtags would make them trend, though. It's hard to fight back against Kremlin lies, but probably a good start is mockery of the fact that the Kremlin squeezes what little money the poor inhabitants of Russia have out in taxes and then wastes it on hopeless causes like Marine Le Pen. How come they can pay for this bullshit while the infrastructure of Russia is falling apart?
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Proportionality
Confident
I don't know where you are looking, but all live results I see have Macron taking what he was projected to and winning the plurality in the first round.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Trudeau, Macron, and Merkel form the Free World Oligarchy now.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
I thought Le Pen had stepped down? EDIT: Oh, only as the FN president. Sorry, haven't been keeping up with French elections since the First Round.
neoliberal
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Trump got him back when Macron arrived at the NATO summit though xD
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Of course she would, otherwise she stands no chance of becoming prez. The only thing above Le Pen's xenophobia is their thrive for power.
worldnews
French politics
annotator02
Equality
Confident
Fillon isn't center right, he's a classic right-wing : socially conservative and economically liberal.
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident
Out of the loop. Why Macron being president is a great thing for Europe?
europe
French politics
annotator02
Non-Moral
Confident