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Japanese engineers develop flying robotic orb - ilamont
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/10/japan-flying-sphere.html
======
algoshift
Not that impressive if you are familiar with the technology.
As someone mentioned, this is, at its simplest, an RC helicopter inside a
sphere.
RC helicopters have had off-the-shelf 3 axis gyros and 3 axis accelerometers
available for quite some time. There are probably well over a dozen such
systems in the market today.
As far as cost is concerned, the numbers are on par with what was mentioned.
My smallest helicopter system probably runs about $2,000 or so ready to fly.
This includes carbon fiber rotors, skeleton, 3-axis stabilization system,
radio, etc.
If you dared get close to an RC heli with a stabilization system and push it
you'd see exactly what you saw in this video: The heli would recover to its
prior attitude. In real life wind gusts do this all the time.
No doubt they are writing additional code to take advantage of the spherical
platform.
If you are interested in seeing what a modern high-performance RC heli can do
today check out this seven year old kid flying one:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHJs1gBLiuQ>
Here's another example of what these machines can do today:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgbXcb1P6eU>
Yes, they are dangerous. Power systems can exceed 10KW on the high performance
helis.
Here's one of the many commercially available 3-axis flight stabilization
systems in the market:
<http://www.digitalflybar.com/products/sk720.html>
Time to take apart one of the helis and build a sphere around it!
~~~
lloeki
The difference here is not so much that it hovers and stabilises position, but
that it has two modes of flying: when it hovers, it works like a helicopter
(the propeller provides support), but when it goes forward, it works like a
plane (the wings provide support while the propeller only provides forward
movement).
~~~
speleding
In addition to the two flying modes it can roll on the ground to get to hard
to reach places. I've not seen a helicopter do that before.
~~~
algoshift
OK, build a sphere around the $200 VTOL plane I linked to above and you have
that too.
~~~
borism
making that sphere not interfere with airflow from the rotors is not trivial.
------
morrow
Anyone else immediately think of those floating orbs from half-life 2? I'm
imagining the U.S. military will be developing something similar if it hasn't
already - the use cases just seem too extensive. I mean, something like that
could float along in front of a unit/convoy deployed in hostile areas and
scan/sense for IEDs, or you could have a distributed swarm of these patrolling
streets at night with IR cameras, reporting any trouble. They'd be able to see
under canopies, inside alleyways, even enter enclosures and buildings
(physically if not legally). The fact that it's blades are some-what enclosed
also makes it safer for close quarters operations without getting thwacked or
cut up by a helicopter blade as well.
Another orwellian thought with a mixture of huxley - what if the future
doesn't begin with these types of surveillance tech imposed on us by our
government, patrolling our streets with cameras and other sensors, but rather
with a slick company manufacturing and marketing it as a guardian-angel
device?
Afraid of a family member being unsupervised? Call in the UAV to keep tabs on
them from your smartphone. Want to go for a jog, but it's getting dark out?
Bring along the Orb with flash-light, GPS, ability to call for help, etc. If
you think it would be too ridiculous to happen, and that people wouldn't want
to look ridiculous to these things hovering over them at all times, just wait
until they get smaller...
~~~
VladRussian
>I'm imagining the U.S. military will be developing something similar if it
hasn't already
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_RQ-16_T-Hawk>
------
burke
I went into that video thinking "Big deal; it's a helicopter inside a ball",
but the way it moved in the air was actually very impressive -- especially the
way it responded to being pushed by the demonstrator about a minute in.
~~~
6ren
Old ideas put together in a new way (literally: off-the-shelf components).
It's convenient how everything - rotor, control surfaces - is tucked away. And
it can execute a rolling landing.
They say they had a hover/fly plane, but take-off and landings were difficult,
and the spherical design was an attempt to solve it
([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF0uLnMoQZA&t=1m40s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF0uLnMoQZA&t=1m40s)
(1:40)). Although... perhaps the impressive aspects come from the R&D in the
antecedent aircraft.
Hobbyists have long showed-off hovering remote-controlled model planes; the
automatic control is what's really impressive, encapsulating that skill.
~~~
wlievens
> Old ideas put together in a new way
AKA innovation
------
Andrenid
That's freaky as hell.
I've spent the last few months designing a spherical drone with counter-
rotating props and Arduino controlled ailerons to direct the airflow... that
looks nearly EXACTLY like the one in that video.
I still have the Sketchup files somewhere.
Now I have to go find something else that hasn't been done.
~~~
ibisum
Finish the plans, put them on Thingiverse.com or something. Someone will build
it and you'll be most satisfied to see it out there, I'm sure.
~~~
calebmpeterson
Yes, please do!
------
commieneko
Put a pistol on it, or an explosive charge and you've got something the
military would probably be interested in.
There's no denying this is cool, but there's also no denying that this type of
technology could be used for very evil stuff. Launch one of these with a GPS a
mile or so from a target and you've got an automated nasty.
Not to hard to think of counter measures. I suspect some kind of silly string
ack ack could probably do bad things to those rotors. Mini "Barrage Balloons"
with Monofilament lines and netting might come into vogue in certain
circles...
~~~
arohner
The cheaper your weapon, the more effective the countermeasures have to be.
These things could just as easily carry a grenade (or several), and a dead
man's switch. When it can't fly anymore, self-destruct.
------
jerf
The video makes a big deal about how the parts are off-the-shelf; how off-the-
shelf is the software?
Also, as of this writing, latimes.com claims the thing costs $140,000, but the
video says $1,400 at 2:30.
~~~
shoma
I read this news in Japanese media, it describes material cost of this object
is about 110,000 JPY ($1,446).
------
jeffool
Sering this, I think the same thing I did when I first saw quadrotors on
Youtube: So, when do things like this replace cameras and helicopters as high
tech policing tools?
Just place charging stations around the city that they can land in (in this
car, or affix to in the case of quadrotors,) and you've got an extra pair of
eyes on the street able to cover far more ground than a patrolman. (Though,
you'd stol need someone to pilot them. For now.)
------
noonespecial
Yes but can it get the princess to tell you where the rebel base is?
[http://www.originalprop.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2008/06/...](http://www.originalprop.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2008/06/where-science-meets-imagination-interrogation-
droid-x2000.jpg)
------
willpower101
Ah! It's a probe droid! :D
------
atomicdog
Finally, Anti-escape Orbs are a possibility.
------
jamesrom
THE MANHACKS ARE COMING!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
When the rules prevented Kenneth Cole from launching, he broke the rules - DanLivesHere
http://dlewis.net/nik-archives/the-birth-of-a-shoe-company/
======
jpadvo
What is so impressive about the story is that he didn't break the rules, he
found a clever way to work within them. He was confronted with a brick wall
most people would have seen as non-negotiable, and he found a way around it.
This required subtlety and cleverness.
Outright breaking the rules is a shortcut that will often be morally wrong and
will also carry practical ramifications that you probably don't want to deal
with. I.e. you'll be a jerk and get nailed for it.
It takes nothing but shallow bravado and sociopathy to "break the rules." It
takes a lot of smarts to work with / around them, and will work out a lot
better for you.
~~~
0x12
It's shallow bravado and sociopathy if you think the rules don't apply to you.
The fine line is right at the point where if everybody did what you just did,
would it work or would we all fail?
The rules are there for a reason, your ability to cheat your way to the top
notwithstanding and there is nothing impressive at all about a lack of respect
for a common resource.
~~~
jamesbritt
_It's shallow bravado and sociopathy if you think the rules don't apply to
you._
That's total bullshit. Sociopathy? Really? Think maybe there's some hyperbole
here?
Lots of rules were created simply to make life easier for some at the expense
of others. Other rules are place long after they make any sense.
_The fine line is right at the point where if everybody did what you just
did, would it work or would we all fail?_
That's only true in a broad view. Also "everybody did what you just did" may
point out just why a rule is foolish. Or not, but blind obedience is no
virtue.
* ... and there is nothing impressive at all about a lack of respect for a common resource.*
So it's OK for one business (film) to tie up traffic and inconvenience the
locals, but not another (apparel)? And this is based on some objective
assessment of the common good and not back-room deals, tax breaks, and
cronyism?
I'm skeptical.
~~~
0x12
Typically movie making permits are given under the assumption that there will
be no abuse of such permits (after all, only a limited number of movies will
be made) and because cities like the exposure.
Selling apparel is so common that if everybody that sold apparel would get a
movie permit that no traffic could use the road anymore.
------
rada
This is nothing more than a bricks-and-mortar version of spam. Misleading
subject? Check. Message scrambled so it can pass through the spam filter?
Check. Exacerbating traffic congestion at pipe owner's expense? Check.
Millions of people's time wasted? Check.
Ok, spam is not genocide, and ok, it moves product. But to make it into an
inspiring Young-Entrepreneur-Breaking-The-Rules story? Give me a break.
~~~
georgieporgie
What is it spam for? The newsletter link at the bottom?
~~~
DanLivesHere
No, he's saying that Kenneth Cole was a spammer. Just a brick-and-mortar one.
~~~
georgieporgie
That seems like a heavily stretched metaphor.
------
cbs
Yeah, great for him. This law is in place prevent the tragedy of the commons
from killing NYC traffic because "well, its ok for _ME_ to block traffic
selling my shit".
------
parfe
If he never closed shop he was selling over 11 pairs of shoes a minute for 2.5
days straight. I assume he was actually doing bulk sales to distributors.
The article doesn't make it clear. Was Market Week a retail event or a
business to business event?
~~~
dabent
I'm pretty sure this is the kind of event where purchasers make deals with
manufacturers. You're right, it would be logistically impossible for that many
shoes to be sold one at a time...
[http://nycfashioninfo.com/wholesale/market-
weeks/Calendar.as...](http://nycfashioninfo.com/wholesale/market-
weeks/Calendar.aspx)
------
DanLivesHere
... and he embraces it. I learned this from one of his trucks (see
<http://i.imgur.com/UClZP.jpg>) which told the story.
------
joezydeco
Millions of people work around stifling bureaucracies daily.
Anyone working for a large corporation probably has a dozen or more arrows in
their quiver when it comes to working around stupid rules, inefficient
procedures, or stupid/inefficient coworkers.
------
yason
It's easy to break the rules if you just see them as rules, like kids do: they
interpret rules literally.
If, instead, you have learned to see some sort of an authority or greater
justification issued behind the rules, rules become bearly impossible to bend
because you'd be not only mucking with the rules but challenging something
much greater.
For an example, if you bump into a locked door of an abandoned old house, most
people shy away because they _assume_ the whole premises are off limits. While
that is a safe assumption, a hacker mind would just consider the locked door
as one particular blocked entry to the house and hop in through the basement
window that was left slightly open. It might not be too relevant for him
whether the premises themselves are, or are not, off limits: the hacker mind
would realize that him looking around the house doesn't cause any tangential
damage to anything, but at least he would satisfy his endless curiosity about
what's inside.
Similarly this shoe guy realized it does no harm to anyone and nobody would
actually care if he posed as a film crew even if they weren't filming
anything. Well, it seems nobody did care!
~~~
wisty
I find the whole "rules are made to be broken" thing a little creepy.
But you seem to have a more interesting take - unjust rules are meant to be
sidestepped.
------
nickpinkston
True hustlers make it happen - great story.
------
americandesi333
He did break the rules, but these rules were irrational and he didn't hurt
anyone in the process. Thats the ethical and moral dilemma that hustlers have
to deal with every day.
This is an inspiring story, but when I hear about founders cheating,
backstabbing and hurting others in the process, that is not inspiring... and
there is a fine line between the two.
~~~
cbs
>but these rules were irrational
Yeah, lets just let anyone who wants to set up shop in the middle of NYC
roads. Won't impact traffic in the city at all.
~~~
americandesi333
I am not propagating that anyone should be allowed to have a truck on the NYC
road, but why is it restricted only for movie studios and utility companies?
Why not look at other industries that might value from such a permit. Even the
author seems to agree with that evaluation.
~~~
kstenerud
Utility companies need to block traffic in order to service the public
infrastructure. Film studios need to block traffic because traditionally it's
been the only way to get street shots, especially when large film crews and
big name actors are involved. Both are special cases that require special
consideration.
What is the special needs use case for a shoe manufacturer?
~~~
fragsworth
I think the movie studios get permits more for the fact that it ends up
becoming free advertising and good publicity for the city.
------
mathattack
He would have a great answer for The YC application question of "how did you
hack the system?"
------
aneth
The lesson to be learned here is to make things happen - to find a way from A
to B - to not take no for an answer.
It is not that breaking the rules is a good thing, only that sometimes it is
acceptable.
------
jonathanmoore
Fun fact... Their legal name to date is still Kenneth Cole Productions, Inc.
as a reminder to resourcefulness and innovative problem solving.
Source:
[http://www.kennethcole.com/content/index.jsp?page=our_story&...](http://www.kennethcole.com/content/index.jsp?page=our_story&h=1150&w=898)
~~~
DanLivesHere
This is also noted in the submitted link
~~~
jonathanmoore
My mistake. I must have missed that.
The version of the story that is told on Kenneth Cole's website is still worth
checking out.
~~~
kgermino
Except its flash only...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Worshipping My White iPhone - founderama
http://founderama.com/2011/worshipping-my-white-iphone/
======
mikhuang
your video is marked private, can't view it
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Company reaps $25,000,000 hacking TicketMaster & others . . . - aresant
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/01/BAK21C9544.DTL
======
breck
On the surface, this looks ridiculous.
I don't see how this is a criminal suit and not a civil suit. What they did
was clearly against the wishes and TOS of TicketMaster, the MLB, and others.
But criminal? Hardly.
They found a way to buy tickets better than the rest of us.
Why the government is pursuing criminal charges on behest of TicketMaster and
Co. baffles me.
This isn't an industry, and these aren't companies, that I think need a lot of
protection from Uncle Sam.
~~~
jrockway
It's weird. If you went to a store and bought all the apples, the owner of the
store would love you. Do the same thing online, and suddenly you are facing
federal felony charges.
~~~
ramchip
It's not really the online part, it's the tickets part. If you went to the box
office in person and tried to buy all the tickets, they wouldn't let you more
than online.
~~~
olefoo
But if you hired twenty people to go through the line three times each with a
different mustache each time that would be OK?
~~~
jrockway
Sounds like a job for mechanical turk. Have a bunch of people buy tickets, pay
them a dollar via turk, pay the cost of the ticket when you receive it, resell
for profit. Then you are not committing fraud, you are just buying tickets
from your friends that don't want them anymore. "First sale" and all that.
It's clear that TicketMaster doesn't really want to solve this problem. If
they did, they could solve it the same way the airlines did. (Hint: not by
having a captcha on the credit card info page.)
~~~
Maven911
sorry i dont get this..how did the airlines fix people buying all the tickets
for a flight ?
~~~
inklesspen
making it impossible to resell them
------
tdavis
Wow, this is utterly absurd. I'm no lawyer, but couldn't this set a dangerous
precedent that could find people being federally indicted for circumventing
CAPTCHAs and the like?
As far as I'm concerned, a program which automatically purchases tickets
through TicketMaster is more of a feature than a federal crime; the process
for a law-abiding citizen is horrendously convoluted and a complete UX
disaster. Too bad TM gets away with it, thanks to their monopoly.
I've spent enough time in the ticketing industry to know that it's right up
there with "accai berry" and the like in terms of shadiness. Anybody who
thinks StubHub et. al. are "fan marketplaces" is severely delusional; 99% of
all tickets are listed by brokers who do it for a living (most of whom use
less-efficient ways to circumvent TM security, however. That 25MM number is
the only reason this is being prosecuted so vigorously.)
~~~
aresant
At face value definitely seems like it should be civil, not criminal although
I know that components of the "ticketing" business, like scalping tickets on
event sites, can be criminal offenses set state-by-state.
~~~
wgj
"indicted by a federal grand jury on charges..." and "surrendered Monday to
the FBI" definitely make this sound like a criminal case. I agree though, I
wouldn't have thought much about automated purchasing being a federal crime.
~~~
aaronblohowiak
It is the circumventing of security methods and the wire fraud that are FBI
issues, not the automation of purchasing.
------
jfarmer
What? It sounds like they wrote software which automated the buying of tickets
on these sites, presumably looking for arbitrage opportunities.
Hardly "hacking," and I have a difficult time understanding how that is at all
fraudulent. What am I missing?
~~~
Jeema3000
I kinda thought the same thing when I read this. I guess the fraud was that
they intentionally went to great lengths to make it look like individuals were
buying the tickets instead of a single company.
~~~
electromagnetic
Pretending to be someone else to gain profit, is identity fraud regardless of
if you stole a real persons identity or created one.
The reason the FBI is involved heavily is because virtually all identity fraud
is related to organized crime and money laundering, the rest are usually
linked to insurance frauds. Being the first real case of a major identity
fraud online, I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI tries to put their heads on a
pike as an example to everyone else.
Immaterial of what they did it for, identity fraud is taken as an
exceptionally serious crime and as far as I could tell, they performed a
thousand or more 'unlawful identity changes' by operating bots under false
names for illicit means. The one exception to this is the use of a pseudonym
for anonymity, however it's a colossal stretch to claim your bot army are
acting as your pseudonyms for your anonymity reasons.
~~~
xenophanes
How is that a stretch? They wanted to buy a bunch of tickets and not have
anyone know. That's anonymity right there.
------
zackham
Link to the actual indictment, which has a lot more information:
[http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/press/press/files/pdffiles/Wi...](http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/press/press/files/pdffiles/Wiseguys%20IndictmentFiled.pdf)
The indictment has lots of interesting technical details about what they were
doing.
Also very interesting and not mentioned in the article is on page 27: 41. It
was further part of the conspiracy that, in or about 2008, having damaged the
Online Ticket Vendors' ability to distribute Event tickets fairly on a first-
come, first-served basis, defendants LOWSON and KIRSCH would establish and
operate Renaissance Events Management ("REM"), a company that proposed to sell
Event tickets on behalf of artists and venues as a competitor of Online Ticket
Vendors.
------
leftnode
There are a few other comments on here who are surprised by this. How is it
really surprising? The two main points:
a. Wire fraud. They probably had some type of fake bank accounts set up or
something to launder the money because they knew what they were doing was
wrong.
b. The tickets were sold at substantially higher prices than on Ticketmaster.
They were able to do this by gaming the system/or cracking the schemes in
place (captcha's) to prevent people from doing this.
c. On a lighter note, they named their company Wiseguys Tickets. That's like
the Mafia naming themselves Mafia, Inc. - "We Handle The Rough Stuff". A name
like Wiseguys Tickets is just asking to be investigated.
~~~
breck
> a. Wire fraud. They probably had some type of fake bank accounts set up or
> something to launder the money because they knew what they were doing was
> wrong.
If they did that, then I can see the point of this case. But I didn't read the
full suit. Anyone?
> b. The tickets were sold at substantially higher prices than on
> Ticketmaster. They were able to do this by gaming the system/or cracking the
> schemes in place (captcha's) to prevent people from doing this.
Nothing wrong with this. It happens all the time. When I was in college when
course registration opened at 6am, the CS majors always "coincidentally" got
their preferred courses more often than other students.
TicketMaster charges an arm and a leg for the "convenience" of buying tickets
online. I'm happy someone was taking advantage of them.
> c. On a lighter note, they named their company Wiseguys Tickets. That's like
> the Mafia naming themselves Mafia, Inc. - "We Handle The Rough Stuff". A
> name like Wiseguys Tickets is just asking to be investigated.
Haha. I thought the same thing.
~~~
lmkg
I just read through the indictment, albeit rushed and IANAL.
a. Through the use of fake email addresses, domains, and IPs, Wiseguys claimed
to be over 1,000 different people. Whether this is against Ticketmaster's TOS
may be immaterial, since the "fraud" charge applies just to the act of
claiming to be someone else, not the use or material repercussions of the
claim (as opposed to a civil suit). There are also a number of cases where
Wiseguys' bots gained access to tickets nominally only available to exclusive
groups, of which neither the bots (obviously) or Wiseguys were a member.
Additionally, many of the ticket purchases were agreed upon ahead of time with
specific brokers, which probably makes the false-identity charges much
stronger. There's also one shell company run by Wiseguys that claimed to be
selling tickets directly from the venue, which it was not.
b. The tickets say they are not allowed to be resold. I do not know the legal
status of such claims, but you agree to those terms before the purchase, which
removes one of the weak points of TOS enforcement.
On the personal side of things, while TicketMaster isn't my favorite company
either, someone grabbing all their tickets to inflate the prices even higher
by adding two additional middlemen doesn't really help things. I consider
Wiseguys to be the scummier actor here.
~~~
breck
Thanks for reading and sharing.
> a. Through the use of fake email addresses, domains, and IPs, Wiseguys
> claimed to be over 1,000 different people.
If this becomes a crime then we're all in trouble. Who hasn't created a test
account using a fake name, etc.? I don't want to be guilty of perjury or fraud
because I created 2 digg accounts.
> b. The tickets say they are not allowed to be resold. I do not know the
> legal status of such claims, but you agree to those terms before the
> purchase, which removes one of the weak points of TOS enforcement.
I think TicketMaster would have been right to not honor these tickets then,
but not sure how this could be a criminal offense.
------
scotty79
Why is that illegal? Apart from acting against somebody's terms of service and
circumventing some protections?
Selling tickets for fixed price is kinda strange idea. They should put up some
continuous auction. Maybe that would better reflect the actual value of
tickets at different moments in time.
------
ShabbyDoo
I can understand how this might be a valid civil matter if the click-thru
agreements were violated (as I'm certain they were). However, the criminal
charges seem bogus.
What if Subway were to offer subs for a dollar next Tuesday with the
stipulation that each customer could only purchase one. And, like Iraqi voting
procedures, Subway would mark customers' hands to prevent them from making
multiple purchases. Let's say I found some solvent that removed the marking
and was therefore able to purchase 50 subs and sold them on the nearest corner
for a profit. Is this illegal?
~~~
electromagnetic
If you're pretending to be another person, and not just reentering another
sotre as Joe Smith then yes, yes it's very illegal hence the criminal charges
here. Wiseguys claimed to be thousands of people to game the system, that
accounts to a thousand charges of identity fraud.
~~~
erlanger
Honestly, if I owned a store I really wouldn't care if you felt like wearing a
different disguise every day as long as you were buying stuff.
------
mattmaroon
I still don't understand why Ticketmaster doesn't just sell all tickets as
dutch auctions with some minimum price. They'd then easily cut out these
brokers in the middle for popular events.
~~~
defen
Because then everyone would have a bunch of taxable income to report. Much
better to distribute the good tickets to your buddies and other insiders who
can sell them on Craigslist for huge profits, tax-free.
~~~
mattmaroon
I think I'd rather pay taxes on $100 than taxes on $50 if I were Ticketmaster.
~~~
defen
I'm suggesting a situation where you pay taxes on $50, with revenue of $100,
vs. paying taxes on $50 with revenue of $50.
------
reynolds
How is this different from automated trading by investment banks? I've written
really basic articles on cracking captchas and this has me considering
removing that content and code.
~~~
ig1
Because automated trading is done on exchanges that permit it, doing it on an
exchange that didn't permit it could expose you to much more serious criminal
financial abuse charges.
------
tbgvi
Interesting, I always thought reCAPTCHA randomly combined words for each
instance. These guys were able to get around it because each CAPTCHA has an
id. Have some people from mechanical turk build a database of responses and
you're set.
Assigning a non-unique id to CAPTCHAs that are reused kind of defeats the
purpose I guess.
------
joshu
Would this even be a problem if tickets were auctioned?
~~~
ntoshev
Probably no. But there is more complex psychology and economics involved:
<http://www.jimmyatkinson.com/papers/ticketscalping.pdf>
------
DougBTX
Ugh, why does almost every paragraph end in "xxx said"? Dull reporting.
~~~
grinich
This is Associated Press Style.
Not all news needs to be a sensational narrative.
~~~
jrockway
Why even bother with English then? Might as well just make it an RDF file, so
it's boring _and_ machine-readable.
------
korch
Holy shit, this hits really close to home! I almost worked for this company a
year ago! No really—here's proof: <http://i.imgur.com/nrGSm.png>
I was a dev at Ticketmaster for 2 years(Perl, blech!), got laid off(during the
worst job market of all time, thanks!), then out of the blue got a call from a
recruiter to interview with this company. They were going by the name "REM",
one of their shell companies. Their office was Beverly Hills adjacent on a top
floor in the AIG building, across the street from the fancy hotel where the
President stays when he's in LA. Snazzy real estate indeed, so they were
obviously making a lot of dough to afford that kind of rent. I interviewed
with Ken, the company owner and primary defendant in the DOJ's doc, for a
little over an hour.
I realized pretty quickly into it that this wasn't a legit smaller indie
ticketing company, but an all out scalper company. Ken did talk too openly
about his operations, so my spidey-sense was going off that it wasn't legit.
Having been in the ticketing industry, I was able to have a more detailed
conversation with him about various practices. It was pretty clear all his
money was coming from scraping TM. I think the first thing he said that set
off my red alarm was "every programmer I have is paired with an off-shore
Romanian programmer who does the work." (My mind's translation: "Uh-oh, run,
you'll be miserable here, at yet-another company that doesn't really get nor
care about software.")
I did find it fascinating to hear about ticketing from the other side of the
fence, after being at TM, where the daily war of attrition against brokers &
bots is permanent and unwinnable, the scalpers attain an aura of mystery &
annoyance. If you sell a lot of tickets, but don't lock down your site with
captchas and go all out with engineering clever session/identity persistence
strategies, the scalper bots of the world will absolutely kill you on traffic,
while continuously holding up your entire inventory, and ruin your real
customer's experience.
After realizing it was a scalper company and deducing that they were making
millions on a startup-sized skeleton team, I thought why the hell not go work
for them, for a few months maybe, it'll be awful (the ticketing industry sucks
to develop in because you can't do anything customers really want), but nobody
else in West LA was hiring and I was desperate that month. The way I see it,
merely scraping a web site violates TOS, not criminal law. I had no idea that
the logistics of this kind of enterprise also involved complex financial
fraud, so I wouldn't have pursued this if I knew that aspect. I figured at the
time that if I was going to do thankless development for a scam company
getting rich off of skimming off of an even bigger unofficial monopolist who
themselves are skimming off from the general public under a blind and
lumbering gov't regulator, who just got rid of my job at the height of all-out
market panic, all in an industry I want to get out of, and in a niche where I
can't be open about anything I do and where loyalty is valued more than my
programming-wizardry, then I better charge those jerks a high price.
So I told Ken I wanted at least $125k/yr and I never heard back from him after
he said he wanted to make me an offer. I figured good riddance, no sense in
getting involved with a crap job if they won't put their money where their
mouth is—company's who talk big are a dime a dozen. However, I was puzzled why
he didn't complete the offer, as everything they were doing was stuff I knew
all about from my time at TM, so I thought I was his ideal candidate. Based on
the DOJ pdf case file, they were making $40 million a year, making my salary
request mere pocket change to them.
As you can see from my linked email screenshot, they weren't looking for any
specific technical skills, but were instead soliciting blind loyalty above
all. If that's the primary skill you need from your devs, then it's another
red flag indicating a pretty bad working environment and crappy development
process.
Ultimately I think he didn't hire me because of something I said during the
interview along the lines of "TM could put you out of business overnight if
they just knew you existed, because scraping simply isn't a technically
feasible solution on a growing scale large enough for it to work
indefinitely." Scam artists hate being outed by smarter people, so I proved I
wasn't a lackey-type. Knowing TM's system, it simply can't be scraped on a
wide scale without privileged insider access(i.e. scalping your own tickets,
ala the Ticketsnow fiasco) without getting noticed and shut down. Plus they
have the greatest security-by-obscurity of any other company I know: there's
an entire 2nd back-end, behind the entire customer facing LAMP stack, of
emulated VAXen running legacy Pascal code originally written in 1982 and left
running since then. Yes, when you buy a ticket from TM, the tickets come out
of a VAX, which is embarrassing as far as "innovation", considering it's now
2010.
I think it's really too bad the DOJ went after these guys instead of truly
fixing the broken ticketing industry. This action by DOJ helps TM more than it
helps anyone else(getting the gov't to kill your competition is sweet deal and
an ancient tactic). I think the DOJ has their priorities backwards. Ultimately
the consumers lose because they pay higher prices for lower quality, non-
innovative services. They knock out one of the little parasites, who's botnet
was probably causing huge headaches for TM, yet allow the LN+TM merger to go
through, creating a whole new type of unfair monopoly. It's forrest for the
trees, man.
Ideally I'd like to see the ticketing market resemble a stock exchange, and
not an airline. I wish some startup would build this site! Every ticket that
can be sold should be publicly listed, so nobody can unfairly profit by having
private information about ticket inventory and price levels. (This ideal can
be proven using game theory with asymmetric information!) There would be a few
more mechanisms to design the right way to balance out the dynamics of the
system and keep it fair, similar to how financial companies are regulated.
Right now TM has a sweetheart deal, getting to play both sides of the
fence—being an unregulated, de-facto market-maker, while not having to make
the same kinds of fair concessions to the pubic in exchange for being allowed
to be a market-maker(such as no front-running like Goldman Sachs).
Also, if on the off-chance anyone out there is thinking about doing something
innovative with ticketing platforms + web + iphone, and if your plan is "crazy
enough that it just might work", and if you're in LA, and if you're hiring,
and if you're using Rails, hit me up! I'm looking for a job! I keep an eye out
for this type of idealized ticketing company. I think it'll be a few more
years until I see it, when some player can get enough leverage to take on
LN+TM, both of whom truly are technical dinosaurs just waiting to get taken
down by a pure Internet company. The real get-rich mystery to solve is what
form that leverage will appear in. Really, the ticketing industry really is
that inefficient, it's like someone left $100 million dollars just sitting
there, for anyone to take, if they can spot how.
~~~
korch
One more thing: reading the linked PDF case file and seeing all the emails
clearly establishing criminal fraud, it looks like this company could have
benefited grealy by the infamous advice:
"Never write when you can talk, never talk when you can nod, and never nod
when you can wink, and never write an e-mail because it's death."
\-- Eliot Spitzer
Spitzer also should have ironically added "and never leave a tangled financial
trail that can be unravelled back to yourself."
------
mos1
The activity described isn't hacking... it's just creating an alternate, more
efficient interface to the website, to increase their ticket purchasing
efficacy.
I wish the article had more details, so I could confirm or refute my suspicion
that nothing was "hacked".
~~~
ig1
Circumventing security measures to make a computer behave in unintended ways
sounds pretty close to the definition of hacking, at least the Computer Misuse
Act has a definition which is close to that.
~~~
izend
"including computer code that was intended to defeat security measures that
online ticket vendors put in place to prevent automated ticket purchasing"
That just describes a bot...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why did my Cofounder Search post get flagged? - IamGhost
======
minimaxir
From FAQ:
> Can I post a job ad?
> Please do not post job ads as story submissions to HN.
~~~
IamGhost
So where is the best place to submit if not on the story submissions?
Simply just a misunderstanding because I did read that before posting this. I
just didn't think a cofounder search was the same as a job ad, as its not a
paid position.
~~~
minimaxir
A cofounder is still a job.
The intended vector is the whoishiring posts at the beginning of each month.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring)
~~~
IamGhost
Think i'll have to find an alternative that seems to be for people looking for
paid positions. I'm looking for a early stage cofounder - equity only.
Any suggestions?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Whole Earth Catalog Fall 1968 - Electronic Edition - jamesbritt
http://www.wholeearth.com/issue-electronic-edition.php?iss=1010
======
gnu8
Another rubbish scribd link and there's no way to liberate the PDF without
paying.
Here's an useful link to a PDF preview:
[http://www.wholeearth.com/uploads/2/File/documents/sample-
eb...](http://www.wholeearth.com/uploads/2/File/documents/sample-ebook.pdf)
------
expralitemonk
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it. So far, remotely done power
and glory—as via government, big business, formal education, church—has
succeeded to the point where gross defects obscure actual gains. In response
to this dilemma and to these gains a realm of intimate, personal power is
developing—power of the individual to conduct his own education, find his own
inspiration, shape his own environment, and share his adventure with whoever
is interested. Tools that aid this process are sought and promoted by the
WHOLE EARTH CATALOG."
The Whole Earth Catalog changed a huge number of lives, mine included.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Etsy Wants to Give Female Programmers $5,000 to Attend Hacker School - 3lit3H4ck3r
http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/06/etsy-wants-to-give-female-programmers-5000-to-attend-hacker-school/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29
======
tjic
I realize that I'm going to be in the minority here, but I find it disgusting
that it's not just socially acceptable, but downright applauded to
discriminate against 50% of the population because - through no fault of their
own - they were born with male equipment.
Yes, yes, I understand the argument that it's somehow desirable to change the
gender makeup of engineering (although I've yet to see programs aimed at
fixing the general balance in elementary school teaching or nursing), but this
does nothing to address the problem that there are INDIVIDUALS who might like
to apply for a grant but are excluded because of what's inside their
underwear.
~~~
dominikb
Maybe you're complicating this. It's just a basic principle of capitalism and
freedom. Etsy can give away their money to anyone they choose to, if it helps
them commercially (or in any other way).
We should consider this socially acceptable for our own good.
~~~
tjic
> Maybe you're complicating this. It's just a basic principle of capitalism
> and freedom. Etsy can give away their money to anyone they choose to, if it
> helps them commercially (or in any other way).
100% agreed.
I stand for the right for every firm to pass out scholarships, hire, fire,
etc. based on all sorts of things: I support the RIGHT of bookstore owners to
exclude on race, the RIGHT of golf courses to exclude on sex, etc.
...but once we turn from the topic of what people should be ALLOWED to do, and
address what people SHOULD do, I will say that I dislike people who exclude on
race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.
Your uncle has the RIGHT to be racist (thought it makes him a jackass), and
Etsy has the RIGHT to be sexist and judge people based on the accident of
their birth instead of the content of their character.
...and it makes them jackasses.
------
carlsednaoui
Im going to be "that guy" but this story was already on HN's frontpage
yesterday (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3804508>).
Additionally, as per HN's guideline, I would suggest linking to the original
piece of information being <http://www.etsy.com/hacker-grants> and not the TC
one.
I tend to do this mistake myself (link to TC posts instead of the original
one) but have realized that the HN community prefers to see the original
source (from the HN guidelines: Please submit the original source. If a blog
post reports on something they found on another site, submit the latter.).
~~~
madd_o
Dude! Stop being "that guy"!
Sorry, didn't realize this. Gotta catch up on my HN rss.
------
drhayes9
Grants and scholarships based on minority status are bigoted, yes, but not in
a bad way.
Hear me out.
The negative reaction to bigotry arises from a perceived inequality: one group
is getting favored over another, and that's unfair. Sure.
But that assumes that both groups started out equal in the first place. If one
group were at a disadvantage then giving them a leg up merely equalizes what
was already an unequal playing field. So, in this example, men have been and
continue to dominate professionally by almost any metric we care to look at
across the entire population (salary, job title, etc.). Helping out women in
this regard is an attempt to level the playing field.
That said, in practice it is not that easy. Quotas are my favorite anti-
pattern in this arena; they simply don't work and do more harm than good. In
this case, I'm a little leery because Etsy has financial motivations behind
wanting to be seen as women-friendly. A government offering this kind of
scholarship as a social contract effort is more neutral to me; a business
offering it as a marketing effort is more suspect. Maybe I'm too cynical,
though.
~~~
tjic
> But that assumes that both groups started out equal in the first place.
Women get more degrees.
Women live longer.
Women work less, yet collection social security longer.
Women get equal pay for the same experience in the same job.
If Etsy is doing this just as a purely cynical marketing stunt, playing to
their female demographic, I could have some respect for them, in the same way
that I respect a sleazy salesman, or an alligator.
...but if they think that they're "solving" a "problem" by discriminating
against young men, then they're just fools.
~~~
drhayes9
> Women get equal pay for the same experience in the same job.
That goes against a whole lot of sociological research, including CEO pay in
the private sector and professors at the academia level. Where are you getting
that idea?
One third of all women are killed by an intimate partner. Women ages 20-24 are
disproportionately the victim of non-fatal domestic violence.
Women live longer? Well, okay: that doesn't have to do with pay scale or work
inequality, though, right? They don't live longer because someone is deciding
to let them live longer, but they do get less money because some institution
is deciding they should get less money.
Ultimately, how do any of these facts relate to professional equality?
~~~
tjic
> > Women get equal pay for the same experience in the same job.
> That goes against a whole lot of sociological research
No it doesn't.
Here's a report that the Department of Labor commissioned
[http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20...](http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf)
TL;DR: women and men with the same experience and the same job get the same
salary. Women, though (a) opt out of the labor force to have and raise kids,
and (b) opt out of high paying jobs that are dangerous or require insane time
commitments.
Feel free to respond with any actual statistics you may have.
> One third of all women are killed by an intimate partner.
One third.
ONE THIRD??!?
Let's see what the CDC has to say:
<http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm>
1,219,784 women died in the US in 2009.
3,673 died of homicide.
That means that 0.28% of women were killed by ANYONE.
...yet you claim that 33% of women are killed by their intimate partners.
~~~
drhayes9
The violence statistic was a mistype: one third of women murdered are murdered
by an intimate partner.
Check this out:
[http://jec.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9118...](http://jec.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9118a9ef-0771-4777-9c1f-8232fe70a45c)
It refers to your study, but clarifies some stuff.
All other things being equal (skills, experience, etc), resumes with female
names were responded to less than resumes with male names.
Women who have children are paid less than men who have children in the same
occupation even if they are at the same level.
In nearly every study of gender inequality in pay, there is an unexplained
discrepancy that favors men.
------
karinqe
How would you feel about "Etsy Wants to Give Male Programmers $5,000 to Attend
Hacker School"?
It would be in the news all over the country. If you can't switch male/female
without feeling like it's wrong one way, it's wrong the other way too.
~~~
GiraffeNecktie
Just because it's wrong one way doesn't make it wrong the other way. It's
wrong for Etsy to give male programmers money because women are already
underrepresented and, in many ways, disadvantaged in a male dominated hacker
culture. It would also not be wrong to give poor black kids a chance (even
though it would be wrong to "discriminate" against white kids).
~~~
karinqe
The point of non-discrimination is EQUALITY between people of all races and
genders. So if you can't switch the sides, they are not equal and it is wrong.
This is just madness. You can give poor black kids a chance by giving them
equal rights and rules. Anyway, woman are underrepresented by their own choice
and are in no way disadvantaged. I actually feel it is the opposite, that as a
woman, I'm in advantage in IT.
------
pandres
It's not only sexist but also stating clear that there is a handicap in being
a female programmer.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do apps get posted on Product Hunt? - karimdag
I know that hunters post them but what I mean is .. How do they make it to the point they get noticed by someone?
======
mtmail
[https://medium.com/@benjiwheeler/how-product-hunt-really-
wor...](https://medium.com/@benjiwheeler/how-product-hunt-really-
works-d8fdcda1da74) discussed here
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10739875](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10739875)
argues that knowing people on the inside is the best approach (sadly)
~~~
karimdag
Very interesting article and discussion! Thanks for the heads up
------
vr3690
From what I have seen on PH, you are guaranteed best results if the person
"hunting" the app is a PH poweruser or an influencer in general.
------
mirap
This is quite difficult. Basically the only working trick is to be friend with
Ryan Hoover.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is there a concept of safety trademark in ML black box models? - aptrishu
How would someone trust a black box model that it is not biased or things like that specially when it comes to its deployment in mission-critical applications such as health care? How do we manage the tradeoff between accuracy and intelligibility?
======
PaulHoule
I think that the quest for interpretability is often a red herring. What
people need is an ability to tell a model what to do when it is
straightforward to do so.
For instance, at the convenience store near me there is a sign that says "To
buy alcohol you must (A) be 21 years of age and (B) not visibly intoxicated"
The first of those is easily addressed as a rule, the latter is a statistical
kind of thing -- different raters are going to disagree whether certain people
are "visibly intoxicated" and (in real life) it is contextual. It is one thing
to send somebody to drive home drunk, it is another if you are not.
An interpretable model might tell you that it learned it is OK to serve people
that are 20.95 years of age, but that is for chumps. You should just punch in
it is 21 from the beginning.
Similarly, a model that is biased against black people might not have a
reference to "X is black" but rather might learn to discriminate based on
geography or other characteristics. On the other hand, in health care, there
are some cases you do want to take race into account. Blacks react differently
to drugs for heart failure, while Naltrexone seems to be highly effective for
alcoholism in Asians, moderately effective in Whites, and barely effective in
Blacks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Red Programming Language 0.3.2: REPL release - 0x1997
http://www.red-lang.org/2013/03/032-repl-release.html
======
reirob
If somebody like me is wondering what Red is about, here is a link to PDF
slides that explains it:
<http://static.red-lang.org/Red-SFD2011-45mn.pdf>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Capturing and Retaining Customers for Your Subscription Business - cquijano
https://www.firmhouse.com/blog/capturing-and-retaining-customers-for-your-subscription-business
======
masonic
8 self-submits per article is a bit extreme.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=firmhouse.com](https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=firmhouse.com)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook Ads Can Still Discriminate, Despite a Civil Rights Settlement - sapski
https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-ads-can-still-discriminate-against-women-and-older-workers-despite-a-civil-rights-settlement
======
Excel_Wizard
> Nevertheless, the composition of audiences can still tilt toward demographic
> groups such as men or younger workers, according to a study published today
> by researchers at Northeastern University and Upturn, a nonprofit group that
> focuses on digital inequities
>One reason for the persistent bias is that Facebook’s modified algorithm
appears to rely on proxy characteristics that correlate with age or gender,
said Alan Mislove, a Northeastern University professor of computer science and
one of the study’s co-authors.
Hypothetically, let's say that the trucking company in the article used
"people interested in cars" as a targeted group. It would come as no surprise
to me if this group was > 80% male.
It may even be by another mechanism- facebook's algorithm may look at the
profiles of individuals that clicked through on ads in order to determine who
to show the ads to in the future. This is a good way to provide cost effective
advertisement. This also may be done in a way such that a small fraction of
these ads are still shown to $membersOfProtectedClassX, even in cases where
said class is statistically unlikely to click on the ad. What small fraction
is necessary to be legally unproblematic?
If Joe Schmoe creates a facebook ad to hire for a bricklaying job (a job which
is 98% male), what percentage of those ads must be served to women to be
legally compliant?
~~~
ajross
> facebook ad to hire for a bricklaying job
That's a straw man. The situation of concern is failing to advertise high
value or high status products and opportunities to people who would be
disadvantaged. So to stay with your analogy, if you have a job to hire a React
developer (a job which is right around 90% male), but you _don 't show it_ to
someone because their browsing history includes Pinterest but not Reddit, then
you're discriminating. And that's a problem worth worrying about and trying to
address. Likewise ads for vacation timeshares that go to Taylor Swift fans but
not to Diddy afficionados.
Yes, it's possible that there may be some collateral damage in the bricklaying
recruiting industry. And, sure, maybe that's something that needs some
regulatory relief. But mostly I think you're just looking for an example here.
~~~
throwaway1777
Who's to say today's bricklaying job is tomorrow's "high status" coding job?
------
cm2012
This is beyond stupid. What they're saying is that even if you target people
who write "I love programming" on their fb page, it's still discriminatory
towards women because men are more likely to write those words.
~~~
ajross
> What they're saying is that even if you target people who write "I love
> programming" on their fb page, it's still discriminatory
That is... not what they're saying. In fact the article doesn't claim to know
the targetting mechanism at all (though it turns out that they found a way for
some advertisements to circumvent the new restrictions on gender and race
targetting). They're just claiming to have found ads that empirically _are_
targetting demographics in ways that Facebook has already agreed not to.
The "I love programming" bit seems to be something you've invented.
~~~
cm2012
"Dolese’s ad, for example, could have reached a predominantly male audience
because it featured a man, or because an interest in trucking acts as a proxy
for maleness, or both. (A Dolese spokeswoman said the ad targeted categories
“that would appeal to someone in this line of work.”) The settlement did not
resolve the potential bias from proxies and ad content, but said Facebook
would study the issue."
The "I love programming" bit is an example of the kind of proxy they're
talking about. Something correlated with gender but not gender itself. The FB
algorithm uses thousands of data points that might correlate in different
ways. Saying that any of those variables that correlates with gender should be
forbidden is crazy.
~~~
ajross
> Saying that any of those variables that correlates with gender should be
> forbidden is crazy.
Once again, _they are not saying that_. You have applied a maximalist
interpretation to the article that simply isn't present in the text.
The point of the article is that the end result is still discriminatory,
something that Facebook had promised to fix. And they didn't fix it, and
that's newsworthy.
Your point seems to be that solving the problem is really hard, so we
shouldn't try to solve it, nor talk about whether or not it's being solved by
parties who have promised to try to solve it?
------
stickfigure
This is silly. By definition, if you're advertising on Facebook, you're
selecting for a certain demographic. It's a bit broader than the AARP but by
picking any medium you are discriminating against the people who don't follow
that medium.
It's also weird to say you shouldn't be able to target certain demographics.
An ad that resonates well with seniors might resonate poorly with millennials.
You might want to attract both! So you run multiple ads. Or you target
youngsters on Instagram and oldsters in the NYT.
This is not something Facebook is in any position to police.
~~~
wahern
I was curious about the source of Facebook's liability. It turns out their
liability stems from the Fair Housing Act (FHA), 42 U.S. Code § 3604(c)
([https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/3604](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/3604))
which has been repeatedly interpreted over the years to apply to publishers
directly.
Facebook has a duty to screen housing advertisements for discriminatory
indications or intent. The question of whether this sort of disparate impact
discrimination meets the criteria for 3604(c) is a different matter. (My
uninformed guess is that it does _not_ , but Facebook is being attacked on all
sides so will probably be judicious regarding when and how hard it pushes
back.)
------
unlinked_dll
* housing, employment, and credit Ads
I think the easiest solution would be to disallow ads of those categories on
their platform. I'd think the risk of "facebook/instagram is racist" damaging
their brand and the cost of federal discrimination lawsuits would outweigh
whatever revenue they project.
As an aside, I know it's faux pas to bring up any observed (and/or presumed)
differences between the protected classes - but _maybe_ (just _maybe_ )
Facebook's targeting is smart enough to correlate "most likely to care" about
things that tend to have skewed demographics without looking at the
demographic data itself. Like the example in of truck driver ads targeting
men, what is Facebook using to determine who they target? And do those data
points line up with demographics?
I don't know, but these kinds of systems are tough to introspect from the
outside.
~~~
strbean
Your aside is pretty much dead-on the big ethical issue with bias in ML right
now.
For example, ML can do quite a good job of predicting recidivism rates in
convicts, and justice systems have been using this to aid in sentencing and
parole hearings. Obviously, these ML approaches are not supposed to consider
ethnicity. So the factor that ends up having the greatest weight is "did your
father / grandfather spend time in prison", which is an extremely effective
proxy for "are you not white".
Basically, when your training data is based on a reality already heavily
influenced by bias, your models will end up reflecting and perpetuating that
bias.
~~~
AnthonyMouse
The real problem is that there is an actual racial disparity in recidivism
rates, so an algorithm that makes accurate predictions will predict the racial
disparity that actually exists. There is no way to solve that without
significantly impairing the accuracy of the predictions -- which is to say
releasing convicts who we know have an unreasonably high probability of
recidivism merely because there were too many other convicts with an
unreasonably high probability of recidivism who were the same race.
You can also imagine what happens if you apply this recidivism "adjustment" to
gender, which causes a lot of the people advocating it in the case of race to
become nervous and defensive.
~~~
edmundsauto
Accuracy is not the top objective in these systems, fairness is.
~~~
s1artibartfast
In this example, what is fairness, if not the most accurate prediction
possible?
~~~
unlinked_dll
The effect of its use on policy.
~~~
s1artibartfast
That is incredibly vague. What effect and what policy?
------
whiddershins
I can’t understand, in succinct plain terms, what the desired outcome is here.
What would it look like if the ads were not biased, or discriminating, in any
bad way.
~~~
munk-a
Maybe it'd just look like it looked in the 90's, there wouldn't be targeted
advertising and everyone except the marketers would be happier.
~~~
philwelch
There was targeted advertising in the 90’s. A lot of it uses direct mail, and
profiled consumers based upon their magazine subscriptions. But other things
like grocery store loyalty cards and the like were used back then, too.
Television, radio, and print advertising was and is targeted by demographic.
~~~
ng12
Literally the entire purpose of the magazine industry is targeted advertising.
The only reason to publish something like Cosmo or Hustler is to sell adds
targeting the types of people who read Cosmo or Hustler.
------
Koremat6666
Targeted ads by definition are discriminatory. In fact the best ads are the
ones that discriminate perfectly based on wishes of the advertiser.
~~~
bduerst
The perfect ad is one that gives the consumer exactly what they want from the
supplier. Ads solve the asymmetric information problem on imperfect markets,
which require information to be efficient.
------
duxup
>proxy characteristics that correlate with age or gender
Isn't that just how humanity, is?
Some things appeal to some demographics more than others?
I'm not sure anyone can prevent that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using Amazon EC2 - amrithk
Hi everyone,
We are currently using PHP as our server scripting language and MySQL as our database backend.<p>We have read about the benefits of Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2) service. I was wondering if anyone in this forum has used this service? What are your thoughts on switching from a shared hosting plan to this service? Any resources explaining how it all works (e.g: is there MySQL support, how do you communicate with one database if you are running many instances etc?)<p>Thanks
======
izak30
Ok, I was in your situation a month ago, and dove in. EC2 is great. It's easy
to setup.
I suggest starting with ubuntu, as there is a plethora of resources for it if
you are new to system administration
(start with this AMI
[http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?ex...](http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=1425&categoryID=101)
)
Doesn't really matter if you are on osx, linux or windows once you are setup
really, but get elasticfox for firefox, it does all the trivial things
(starting an instance, etc) for you. very cool extension.
Just make sure you have a good backup plan for your data, as in any crash,
your data is lost.
It is much more like getting a dedicated virtual account at a regular
provider, so if you are used to control panels and everything like that,
you'll have to install them yourself. (webmin and usermin)
getting started with LAMP for ubuntu:
[http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ubuntu-710-gutsy-gibbon-lamp-
serve...](http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ubuntu-710-gutsy-gibbon-lamp-server-
setup.html)
------
streety
Although I use S3 I don't currently use EC2 and the limited research I've done
on it may mean that some of what I'm about to say is incorrect. Hopefully
others with more experience can jump in and correct any errors.
Firstly, when you talk about a shared hosting plan I assume you don't need to
set up the server, you just drop your files in the htdocs folder and your site
is ready to go. EC2 instances are analogous to a vps system. You're
responsible for setting up the operating system, installing apache, php and
mysql. There are 'images' (not sure that's the correct term) set up with
everything ready to go but that still leaves you responsible for a lot more of
your site than you may be currently.
My understanding is that MySQL is problematic. Currently each instance is
given a certain amount of hard drive space but if that instance crashes for
any reason all the data is lost. The intention is that S3 is used for your
permanent storage but it isn't suitable for running a database on. Permanent
drives have been announced but they will only be available later in the year.
Until then you are left with work-a-rounds, frequent backups to S3, mirroring
drives across instances in the hopes that you'll only ever lose one instance.
Connecting multiple web servers to a single backend database server is handled
in the same way it would be with any other vps service or indeed dedicated
servers.
~~~
cmer
The new persistent storage feature is game changing for MySQL. It is
definitely the missing piece to the puzzle. Backing up MySQL is just a matter
of calling 1 api command now. Plus, you'll be able to have pretty much
unlimited storage mounted to an instance.
~~~
amrithk
Any tutorials / services that show how one can get instance running up
quickly? I am a newbie to this.
~~~
cmer
RightScale.com is probably the easiest way to start.
Try one of their RightImages; we use their CentOS 5 32 and 64 bit images and
they're perfect.
There's also plenty of tutorials on Google on how to get started, but it'll
involve installing Amazon's command line tools, which is definitely more
complicated than point and click on RightScale.
------
rmason
If you're coming from Windows it's a pretty long learning curve. Seek out the
videos on the site, they're buried but worth searching out. Finding someone
with Linux experience to help you is recommended as well.
But AWS is pretty amazing and in my case it was worth the journey. Still
struggling with re-architecting apps into SOA but the scaling dividends should
be worthwhile.
~~~
amrithk
I develop in a Windows environment currently. I currently use S3 as a storage
solution so I am somewhat familiar with Amazon's web service offerings. EC2
seems really compelling but I am still not really sure how it all works (how
the MySQL database can be stored in S3, how databases can be replicated across
instances so that there is data consistency etc).
~~~
imp
MySQL will have to be run on the instance itself, not on S3. Just pretend it's
a normal computer, except that you have to have a plan for backups from the
very beginning. I recommend the book "High Performance MySQL" from O'Reilly.
It's helped me out a lot witih how to manage MySQL. Has chapters on
backups/replication/high availability.
------
delano
EC2 is like co-location in a cloud, so you will need to handle all sysadmin
tasks yourself (however, you can select an image that already has LAMP
installed). A single small EC2 instance is around $75 per month + bandwidth.
You can also go with a platform on top of EC2, like RightScale, which gives
you some support, including MySQL, but it's expensive ($500 per month!). I
don't have experience with other services but I do use the RightScale
dashboard for creating/restarting/terminating instances.
There are many advantages to going with EC2 though, if you can absorb the
admin work. For example, if you need to do some heavy crunching you can run
another instance only for the time of the crunching, say 12 hours, and that's
all you pay for (12 * $0.80, if you were to use an extra large instance).
------
metajack
We use EC2 for everything but monitoring, email, and DNS. The key factor for
us to switch from our more traditional hosting arrangements? The fact we could
deploy a new server in seconds instead of weeks. Amazon's non-premium support
via the forum is about the same speed as our previous hosting providers.
The only downside is that disk writes are much slower than on a normal
dedicated server. We had do spread out the application over more servers to
compensate for reduced CPU available as well. But even going from 4 servers to
25, we pay less than half what we used to.
I highly recommend EC2.
------
dmv
A nice thing is that it is elastic and cheap to answer your own question. It
is not like a shared hosting plan specifically in that there are no contract
terms or hassle to get started. Before you spend too much time, just fire up
an instance. If, between the docs and getting your hands dirty, it starts to
make sense - great. If not, you've "wasted" $0.10/hour (plus your own, more
valuable time) for a neat experience.
------
limeade
I've heard that there is too much latency to use EC2 as a host. Certainly
xforwarding is not great. Check out the creators of "Friends for Sale":
<http://omnisio.com/sdforum/siqi-chen>
------
fourlittlebees
There are several platforms already existing that can help you get up and
running faster: GigaSpaces and Appistry both come to mind, but they are geared
toward Java, .Net, and C++.
~~~
streety
To throw in one more environment you may want to take a look at flexiscale. It
may work out more expensive (largely because they're based in the UK) but they
have some nice features. Persistent storage, F5 load balancing (you don't need
additional instances to set them up as with EC2) and automatic restart if
something does go wrong with an instance.
Again, I haven't used them, just a bit of research.
------
wmf
I think going directly from shared hosting to EC2 is a bad idea unless you're
an experienced sysadmin. Try shared -> (managed) VPS -> dedicated server ->
EC2.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: What is the best way to enter VC? - tomrod
I've been interested in the VC world for a long time, and would love to jump into the industry.<p>Would you recommend the best way to get into VC & the VC world is to work for a VC fund, or is the best method limited to having a successful startup?
======
propter_hoc
It's pretty straightforward to get an entry-level position at a firm. Analysts
usually have a finance/business background with some tech industry exposure;
these days, many firms also hire social media intern types. So if that's your
situation, you have a fairly well-trod path.
Intermediate level positions (which are fairly uncommon) are often filled by
promotion of analysts, the return of analysts after stints in MBA school, or
the like.
For actual investment decision-making roles, the path isn't so obvious. The
tricky part here is that VC (as with boutique investment firms in general) is
a very "unique mix" driven industry. There are very few partners, whose
"unique mix" of biographies are a critical part of the pitch that VCs make to
their investors (LPs). Those LPs will be looking for firms made of a few
amazingly accomplished, complementary individuals - and putting in 10 years of
analyst/associate/principal work at boutique firms will generally not cut it
for "partner" level.
If you want to be a partner at a firm, your honest best bet is to: 1\. start a
tech company, raise VC, and achieve a successful exit; 2\. make a few angel
investments of your own and achieve a solid track record; and 3\. get
recruited on the basis of 1. and 2.
(Also - These days some firms, notably a16z, are hiring subject-matter experts
to serve in unique advisory roles. Your trajectory to get one of these roles
is to ignore VC for most of your life and become a noted subject matter
expert.)
------
catalinbraescu
A secretary working for a VC firm and a GP are both part of the VC world.
Please make clear which part of the VC world you're targeting. The path to
become a clerk at a VC firm is way different tha the path to become a GP
there.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Spacewar on an emulated PDP-1 - salgernon
http://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/
======
TehCorwiz
This is great! I love seeing in-depth digital preservation. While I'm way too
young to remember the original Spacewar, the DOS decedent of the same name
will forever be a fond childhood memory.
On a completely unrelated note, somewhere I have some amazing 5'x8' (yes feet)
ASCII-art mosaics or the Mona Lisa and the moon on green-bar from the early
70s. I should probably take steps to preserve them. Or at least share them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Norwegian Supreme Court rules police cannot force suspect to unlock TouchID - semi-extrinsic
https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/politiet-far-ikkje-tvinga-den-sikta-til-a-opna-telefonen-1.13121331
======
semi-extrinsic
The link is in Norwegian, but this is a ruling from the Supreme Court
(following appeals from lower courts) that says police cannot force someone to
unlock their phone by fingerprint.
The specific case is a man charged with assault, and police suspect the man
filmed the assault himself.
Earlier rulings in the lower courts were in favor of police, drawing analogy
to the fact that police can force a suspect to give a blood sample. The
Supreme Court, however, finds that while police have a right to investigate a
suspects body, they cannot coerce the suspect to use their body to allow
investigation of external objects.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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How we bootstrapped a startup - addictedcs
https://medium.com/swlh/how-we-bootstrapped-a-startup-ea7142933a87
======
addictedcs
Hello HN, here is a short summary of how we (3 co-founders from Eastern
Europe) bootstrapped a startup. Hope you find it interesting!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Silicon Feelings - bradleygriffith
http://silicons.co
======
jboggan
This may sound silly but seeing this makes me feel more empathetic and
connected to people outside of my culture. These people are extremely
separated from me by distance and language but seeing these simple little
emotions play out across the world make them seem closer and more similar to
me.
~~~
bradleygriffith
I love this. Thank you.
------
anishkothari
This is a neat project! It looks great :-) What inspired you to create this?
It would be interesting for every emoji to link to the original tweet.
~~~
bradleygriffith
Initially I just wanted to explore some technologies I've been meaning to
learn (e.g.; Node, WebSockets, Angular, and Three.js). More than that though,
it had just been too long since I'd actually shipped something. :)
~~~
anishkothari
That's great! I hope you can keep shipping :)
------
sbilstein
I was really hoping this would just be a collection of sad comments from
disgruntled programmers
~~~
massappeal
i believe you're looking for startupsanonymous.com
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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We can only cut debt by borrowing - chrismealy
http://blogs.ft.com/martin-wolf-exchange/2010/09/26/we-can-only-cut-debt-by-borrowing/
======
ctdonath
Absurd. Upshot is a continuation of what got us into this mess: denial of
risk.
He starts with the misguided notion that net debt is zero. The point of
interest-bearing debt is that the debtor might NOT be able to pay the debt
off. He then proposes ways to reduce risk to zero, with lenders suffering no
consequences of risky loans - a furtherance of policies which got us where we
are, determined to take risks then legislate away the consequences.
The system is vibrant because of the willingness to accept risk. To enforce a
risk-averse system is to destroy the benefits of risk. Isn't risk the core of
ycombinator's purpose? to take risks, and to manage them better than others?
The system cannot be cleaned up until the buck stops somewhere, until the
music stops and those without chairs leave the game.
Borrowing, in a fractional-reserve system, means that for every real dollar
there are tens or hundreds of claims on that dollar. You can't pay everyone
off because there isn't enough money - unless the government opts for
hyperinflation, achieving the same basic ends thru redistribution of abject
losses.
------
gvb
I'm having a hard time swallowing the whole of the article, based on assertion
_[A]t the global level, debt cancels out: net debt is zero. So, in paying down
debt, one is also reducing credit by an equal amount._
I agree that (credit - debt) = zero. The problem is that credit is not a fixed
amount due to the fact that it is leveraged... see fractional reserve banking.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking>
The leverage formula is (1 / reserve) where reserve is a fraction tending to
zero. This is a non-linear relationship and we all know that the lim x -> 0
(1/x) = infinity.
If lenders (e.g. banks) hold a 20% reserve, they will "expand" the money
supply by 1/0.2 or 5x. If they hold a 10% reserve, they will "expand" the
money supply by 1/0.1 or 10x. If they hold a 1% reserve, they will "expand"
the money supply by 100x. As the reserve fraction goes to zero, the effective
credit part of Martin Wolf's equation goes to infinity.
A lot of exactly that type of lending was being practiced during the "bubble",
especially in the housing market where mortgage underwriters were loaning more
money than the houses were worth. This was happening _before the housing
crash_ \- mortgage originators were advertising "we will loan you 100% the
value of your house" (sometimes more than 100%).
~~~
anigbrowl
I'm unsure why you think the reserve fraction must inevitably tend towards
zero.
You seem oblivious to the fact that current proposals (known as Basel III,
after the city in Switzerland) requires banks to raise their tier 1 capital
ratios, ie reduce their capacity for leverage. Currently central banks are
acting as lenders of last resort, but once healthy growth resumes they will
gradually sterilize that funding. That will be a limiting factor on growth,
but one that seems preferable to a total credit freeze.
[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-23/ubs-credit-
suisse-m...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-23/ubs-credit-suisse-may-
face-12-capital-ratio-analysts-say.html)
~~~
lzw
In practice, the reserve ratio has continued to decline, and in fact, via the
fraudulent FDIC underwriting practices massive moral hazard has been created
in the banking sector.
In short, banks can leverage as much as they want, and the FDIC will cover
their butts if they fail, but the FDIC does not charge adequate premiums based
on risk. Further the federal reserve isn't really a "lender of last resort"
In fact, the term "lender of last resort" is inaccurate, as the federal
reserve offers rates on money that are lower than the market. They are doing
this now as a response to a crisis that was caused by them doing it in the
past (as I pointed out elsewhere.)
A lender of "last resort" would be one you could always go to, but who was
expensive and therefore you were incentivized - "first resort" - to go to the
market.
~~~
anigbrowl
Really? Please back up your claims with some data. Also, your theories about
fractional reserve banking should hold equally true in other countries where
the FDIC does not operate. And I'm a little skeptical of your complaints about
moral hazard, given the frequent closures of banks by the FDIC, and the
resulting haircut for those banks' investors.
------
mkramlich
Whether the author's plan would work or not, what bothers me about it is that
it seems that the 2 major actors within the US government that would have to
carry out this plan, namely Congress and the Executive branch, appear in
recent times to the lack the ability and/or willpower to carry out any long-
running fiscal-scale mission in a consistent way. I'm in my thirties and from
what I've observed so far in life it is extremely hard/rare for them to carry
out any single plan regarding Federal spending consistently for more than 2
years or so, before making significant changes, adding loopholes, gutting it,
making exceptions, making a total 180 degree turn in direction, etc.
To give just one example, if you follow US Congressional news you'll
periodically hear about something called a "debt ceiling" that supposedly
Congress has to follow, which puts a limit on how much debt/deficit is allowed
to exist at the Federal budget level. The problem is that they also
periodically raise this "ceiling", whenever it is convenient. Whenever there
is some supposedly exceptional or temporary state. And these exceptional cases
and temporary conditions keep happening. Therefore the Federal debt just keeps
going up and up (mostly: except during part of the Clinton presidency.) Memo
to Congress, I don't think the word "ceiling" means what you think it means!
The crack baby treatment of NASA is another example. "Give us a big plan to
return to the Moon and Mars and we'll fund it. Okay, thanks, great plan, we'll
start funding it." Few years go by. "Oops, sorry, we changed our mind, uh,
could you repurpose that into a cute little station escape pod for us? k thx
bye."
~~~
lzw
If you look at history, this has been the case ever since the founding of the
Federal Reserve. This is not a failure of will, this is the way the system is
designed. The system is designed to fail, because this maximizes profits for
the bankers in the long run and for politicians in the short term. When the
system fails, most of the politicians who propagated the bad policies will be
out of power.
The federal reserve put us on a boom-bust business cycle, and those who
understand the cycle profit from it. The fed drives up the boom, as they did
with housing, and everybody who is smart makes money, then they raise rates
and trigger a bust, and when that happens to the point where serious damage is
going on, everybody buys up assets really cheap.
The politicians profit from this as well- during the boom they say "look at
this boom I created!" and get reelected. During the bust they say "look at
this bust the other guy created, give me more power!" and they get more power.
The ultimate boom, of course, is in the value of the dollar which is actually
nothing more than a debt instrument itself. When it crashes there will be huge
political opportunity to remake the country, including constitutional
amendments or even a new constitutional convention. People will suffer, but
there's nothing like a good crisis for the politicians.
------
sridharvembu
This article ignores the other possibility, which I believe to be the only
real solution: default on the debt, wiping out shareholders where appropriate,
convert debt to equity, thereby reducing systemic debt. Bondholders will have
to take a haircut, and the sooner the better.
This would result in a sharp GDP contraction for a relatively short period, a
sharp hike in unemployment, but then growth would resume fairly quickly, once
the realization sinks in that we are not dead after all.
Government can do two things to make this process faster: 1) make the justice
system work faster in resolving the various disputes that will inevitably
arise in imposing hair-cuts on bondholders 2) Make sure no one starves, and no
one freezes. These things it can do.
The present course of cutting-debt-by-borrowing has a clear destination:
zombiehood without an exit strategy. Look at Japan for the best illustration
of this. It is becoming increasingly clear that Japan is not going to resolve
its problems without a major crisis. It should have taken that sharp GDP
contraction in 1991 instead.
~~~
mkramlich
Defaulting on the Federal debt to China could have a wee bit of a
repercussion.
~~~
anamax
> Defaulting on the Federal debt to China could have a wee bit of a
> repercussion.
They'd seize every US or American-owned asset that they could get their hands
on and stop sending us stuff on credit. The former is much smaller than the
debt that they hold (so we could compensate private holders and still end up
ahead) and the latter is arguably a good thing.
~~~
po
> They'd seize every US or American-owned asset that they could get their
> hands on
That might include coming over to get it by force.
~~~
anamax
> That might include coming over to get it by force.
How? They don't have a blue water Navy.
~~~
mkramlich
They're building one.
------
cjlars
"While the highly indebted and the newly “asset-poor” have good reason to
spend less than before the crisis, creditor households have no reason to spend
more. Indeed, the collapse in interest rates in a slump lowers their incomes
and so is quite likely to make them want to cut back on their spending, too.
The aggregate effect of these changes in behaviour is, of course, a rise in
the desired household rate and so the desired financial surplus of the
household sector."
Read this carefully, because I'm fairly certain the author is trying to
disguise something. His argument is this: Households cut spending and drive
down rates, therefore creditors have less income and cut spending, therefore,
creditors demand higher rate and more household debt.
You can see the sleight of hand, creditors desiring a higher rate does not
force a higher rate. In fact, as he already admitted, debtor payments have
pushed down the rate. What the author fails to admit is that rates stay low
AND debtors pay down their balances. Debtors do not need to somehow 'outsave'
their creditors in order to pay down their debt. They simply pay down their
debt.
There may be arguments for stimulus packages and other counter-cyclical govt
spending, but the author doesn't make a fair point for them. I certainly don't
see why it would be necessary for govt borrowing to offset an increase in the
private savings rate.
------
anigbrowl
I strongly agree with Wolf's remarks. In a nutshell, he is pointing out that
the major cause of the current economic stagnation is a lack of cash flow.
Deficits can not be increased forever, but absent cash flow then GDP will
continue to shrink, increasing the relative size of a nation's debt. Boosting
GDP (ideally through sensibly targeted investments in infrastructure) makes
debt more manageable, not least because infrastructural investments tend to
pay off over the long term.
With a little imagination and selectivity, a situation like this can be a good
opportunity to reduce transfer payments and endorse productivity in both the
social and industrial sectors.
~~~
lzw
This is standard neo Keynesianism (neo because nowadays governments just roll
over the debt while Keynes advocated repayment in full at the end of the
recession.)
The counter argument to it is very simple: this spending is spending money
that comes out of the economy, and taking money out of the economy hurts
economic growth. Further, many argue that the spending produces less froth
than the money destroys when taken out- lower profits at the personal or
corporate level mean less investment in growth via consumer spending or
business expansion.
Further we have just witnessed a perfect implementation of this theory- after
the dot com crash, government lowered interest rates below inflation, making
free money and spent massively running up record deficits. It managed to spark
a housing boom and a lot of consumer spending... But the situation we find
ourselves in now is simply the hangover from that party.
If we get drunk again, it isn't going to banish hangovers and each time we do
it, it gets worse while the body gets closer to death.
~~~
dasil003
Medical analogies for financial markets are pretty tenuous, but I find myself
in agreement. A big issue from my perspective is that everyone is ringing
their hands about home values and trying to prop up the deflating bubble. As
someone with aspirations to own a home, this is infuriating. I can't afford a
home, and neither could all the people who bought them. They need to let the
prices fall to where people can actually afford them instead of trying to save
the speculative value which we already know was based on hot air.
~~~
walkon
That was (and is) the ironic thing about all the government sponsored home
ownership programs and legislation. They pumped up demand at an unreasonable
rate, causing ever increasing prices, which made it harder to afford a house,
which prompted further government stimulation...an endless loop, at least
until the fiat charade ends.
~~~
anigbrowl
So why didn't the banks try to throttle the supply? It's funny, I don't recall
any CEOs complaining about the economy being driven off a cliff in the runup
to the bust.
On the contrary, I was astonished at their readiness to give money away. Don't
you recall the endless stream of refinancing commercials on TV? shows like
'flip that house'? The way everyone and their dog suddenly seemed eager to
have a realtor's license? The guy at my local _pizza shop_ had his realtor
business cards on the counter next to the delivery menus.
Edit: I see the truth is uncomfortable for some people. But the fact is that
government promotion of home ownership is one thing, and instant approval of
jumbo loans with 0% down are quite another. I got burned in a property boom
when I was about 20 and this time I decided to stay out of the market.
------
danbmil99
what about good old fashioned inflation? That seems the obvious, if odious,
way out of this bubble.
| {
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Ask HN: Thoughts on Facebook - stevenj
There's been a lot of news lately regarding Facebook. I'm curious to hear what people think about Facebook the company -- its current and future potential as a company, etc. (i.e. possible enduring business models).
======
swombat
Facebook is going to make shitloads of money, but is going to have a valuation
that manages to surpass that, so that both the people hyping it too much and
those hyping it too little will be proved wrong.
We know very little about how much money Facebook actually makes at the moment
- much like Twitter. My guess is that both companies are already very
profitable but playing their cards very close to the chest. They have nothing
to gain from letting out how much money they're making (the hype is already
stratospheric on both), and they have a lot to lose (copycats, spammers, etc).
All those who know the real numbers are under NDAs so strict that if they so
much as farted an information leak they'd spend the next 5 years in court.
You can fool some people some time, but you can't fool a whole battalion of
dot-com-bust-battle-hardened top notch VCs and angel investors out of hundreds
of millions of dollars for 5 years in a row. The private investors know what
they're investing in, and it's probably not hot air.
~~~
stevenj
>Facebook is going to make shitloads of money...
How? (I tend to agree with you, but when I ask myself "How?", I don't have
clear answers.)
~~~
kylelibra
I read they are going to have 1 trillion ad views this year.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google's questionnaire response to Article 29 Working Party - jontro
http://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8syaai6SSfiT0EwRUFyOENqR3M/edit
======
Shinkei
I really have to rant about the idiocy of this law. For full disclosure, I am
American.
They call it a "right to be forgotten," but guess what, I have a right to
information (speech, press, etc.) that I think supercedes this supposed right
which I've never heard of before this law. People need to learn to live with
their mistakes and be more careful about their actions. If a person (to cite
the specific example commonly mentioned) went into bankruptcy due to economic
issues, poor investment or even 'bad luck' then that is a matter of legal
proceedings and should be public record.
I can certainly understand things like nude photos, sex tapes, etc. but we
already have legal means of dealing with those examples. Can someone convince
me why this law is necessary and in the public interest?
Edit: Took out statement about Chinese censorship because people were
attacking that rather than the substance of THIS law.
~~~
spingsprong
Chinese censorship exists to protect the state. EU right to be forgotten
protects the individual.
That's a pretty huge difference.
~~~
DannyBee
So it's a good ol' ends justify the means argument. That certainly never turns
out badly ...
~~~
spingsprong
I didn't make any argument
~~~
DannyBee
Uh?
This is surely an argument.
You are arguing that using the same means (censorship) to achieve two
different end goals (protecting the individual, protecting the state), are
very different situations. You imply that they should be looked at very
differently.
If you don't want it to be an argument, simply state the facts, and remove,
among other things the "that's a pretty huge difference" statement.
------
socrates1998
I just don't get this law. It's so shortsighted and really will only benefit
the rich elite who can hire lawyers to enforce it.
Think about it. If a common joe asks to have a link removed, but google
doesn't do it, what can he do? He has to hire a lawyer to get it removed.
So, the only people that can afford this process are the rich elite. And then
you have the rich elite essentially censoring the internet on stuff they don't
want you to know about.
It just doesn't make any sense at all.
------
michaelfeathers
They could make the argument that Google (and other search engines)
essentially re-publish information so it's appropriate to make them
responsible.
I think that point of view is one that many in the tech community don't share.
We see it as collating results rather than publishing information.
That difference of viewpoint is very significant when you think about it.
------
jontro
It's interesting that they have already received 91000 removal requests
involving more than 320 000 urls.
53% of these have been removed, this is having a big impact...
~~~
happyscrappy
EU citizens will have the search results censored but the rest of the world
will not, nor will any European who is mildly tech savvy. How is this not
useless whack-a-mole?
~~~
jontro
As the documents states: "Fewer than 5% of European users use google.com, and
we think travelers are a significant portion of those."
So this affects pretty much all europeans.
~~~
happyscrappy
Do you believe that most Europeans won't know that their search results are
being censored? Or that they won't care?
~~~
heinrich5991
Or maybe that they agree with the intentions of that law.
~~~
happyscrappy
My point is that even if you agree with the intentions of the law it will not
prevent Europeans from finding the truth if they want it.
~~~
kuschku
But that's not what the law aims for either. It's just supposed to make
finding those results harder, so that you don't accidentally stumble upon
them, but have to actually search for them.
~~~
DannyBee
??? It's exactly the opposite If you actually search for them, you get
nothing. If you stumble around, you may find them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Mdoc(7) – semantic markup language for formatting manual pages - beefhash
http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-current/man7/mdoc.7
======
brynet
mdoc is the language used for all BSD system manuals, which is certainly more
consistent than writing man(7)/roff source.
At least mandoc(1) lets you convert cleaner mdoc(7) into other formats used by
other systems, including man(7). But also pdf/ps/html and more recently,
markdown.
[http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20170304230520](http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20170304230520)
Not directly related, but the semantic hints in mdoc(7) allows some really
nifty features to be implemented, like semantic searching, w/ internal man(1)
jump targets using less :t.
[http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150721180312&mo...](http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150721180312&mode=expanded)
~~~
carussell
> more recently, markdown
I'd rather have a markdown-like notation for the source text itself. I imagine
that if it were the norm for Unix-like systems to come with online
documentation that were as trivially editable as a set of flat markdown files
and also aimed for the benefits of brevity you get from short man pages and
the depth of coverage of GNU info (without the pain of navigating due to the
info viewer's Emacs-inspired keybindings), then most projects' docs would be
far more complete and wouldn't find themselves wanting for contributors to
write them. __*
I'm totally flummoxed, therefore, by statements that markdown is "abominable"
and more poorly designed than DocbBook, whose "syntax encumbers the source
code to the point of making it unreadable".
Vanilla markdown is obviously unsuitable as a source language for man pages
(unless you're willing to throw out the semantics), but mdoc would do well to
take a page from the markdown philosophy. I.e., standardize a set of defacto
constructs that resemble the types of formatting that people are already
embedding in plain text and—crucially—resembles something that you could
conceivably find yourself reading in "raw" rather than "rendered" form.
The idea that mdoc (or any similar macro-based formatting system) is human-
readable is something that sounds like a joke, except that I know they're not
joking. It may not be roff, but that doesn't mean it isn't still junk.
__* I see the proliferation of sites like StackOverflow and Read the Docs as
indicators of how the officially anointed docs are coming up short. (There 's
the ADHD, don't-want-to-RTFM, copy-and-paste brogrammer appeal behind those
sites, too, but even accounting for that will show that there's something
lacking about TFM.)
~~~
tedunangst
It's very easy to write some plaintext and iteratively add mdoc markup. Trying
to do get it all right in one shot is probably a mistake. Most of the common
macros, like .Fa for function argument, are mneumonic.
~~~
carussell
That's besides the point. No one is ever going to _read_ mdoc, because it's
not meant for human consumption, outside of editing an mdoc file. This is not
true for markdown, where the raw form is as fit for consumption as the
rendered form.
~~~
tedunangst
I guess I don't see the problem. It's not meant for reading, so don't read it.
~~~
carussell
Man pages' source texts are not human readable.
If they were, that would bring good things.
This is the entire motivation behind my comment.
I don't know how I can be clearer here.
~~~
gbrown_
> If they were, that would bring good things.
Like what?
------
gbrown_
Not sure why this has come up on HN, I think I saw talk of markdown export
support being added on the mailing list. Anyway people may want to check out
the following presentation.
Slides - [https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2014-mandoc-
slides....](https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2014-mandoc-slides.pdf)
Video 1 -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csA7-SUtUcw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csA7-SUtUcw)
Video 2 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntf-
dNahJQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntf-dNahJQc)
------
rwmj
At least at first glance, it looks like roff?
I use POD to write man pages, which is a widely supported, reasonably
lightweight markup that generates nice looking man pages. (Example:
[https://raw.githubusercontent.com/libguestfs/nbdkit/master/d...](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/libguestfs/nbdkit/master/docs/nbdkit.pod)
)
~~~
JadeNB
I think that it's less about YAML, and more about the capability to offer
semantic annotation. See, for example, brynet's post
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13834037](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13834037)).
------
cat199
Original? pages concerning the format, later reimplemented in standalone
mandoc processor:
[http://modman.unixdev.net/index.php?sektion=7&page=mdoc&manp...](http://modman.unixdev.net/index.php?sektion=7&page=mdoc&manpath=4.4BSD-
Lite2)
[http://modman.unixdev.net/index.php?page=mdoc.samples&sektio...](http://modman.unixdev.net/index.php?page=mdoc.samples&sektion=7&manpath=4.4BSD-
Lite2)
------
daurnimator
I use pandoc ([http://pandoc.org/](http://pandoc.org/)) to be able to write in
markdown, and output to man pages.
See e.g. [https://github.com/daurnimator/lua-
http/blob/master/doc/Make...](https://github.com/daurnimator/lua-
http/blob/master/doc/Makefile#L45) (and the 'doc' directory in general)
------
eb0la
Looks more complicated than actualy it is. For instance .Sh is section header.
Easier to remember than it looks at first sight.
Also gives hints to text formatters that dump the doc to txt, console, ps, or
html.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GitLab 8.14 Released with Time Tracking Beta and Chat Commands – GitLab - seanclayton
https://about.gitlab.com/2016/11/22/gitlab-8-14-released/
======
sanswork
Got the mattermost integration working with one of our repos today and it
seems pretty great. Probably going to move over from Slack to it as I try to
consolidate services. I just need them to release the ability to have issue
boards that cover multiple repos and it'll be perfect for us.
~~~
sytse
Glad to hear you're enjoying Mattermost. Group level issue boards are being
worked on in [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ee/issues/928](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/928) for GitLab
EE and .com
------
mrmondo
Congrats again guys / gals, we're really loving using GitLab at Infoxchange!
~~~
sytse
Thanks for using GitLab. Reading this as the first thing about the release
from the beach in Maui. Mahalo!
~~~
chj
Please watch memory usage.
~~~
mrmondo
Interestingly, we're quite heavy users of GL (EE) and I'm probably the main
person to log into the servers to do upgrades / check on things etc... and I
haven't noticed any memory issues, not saying that they don't exist like I
know that workers have to be reaped every so often to prevent memory leaks
etc... which while isn't great is very very common and is just a delivery
decision as a trade off between development time vs a bandaid approach.
------
fsiefken
Those time tacking features are really great. Is there a way to aggregate the
spent hours over a day or week?
~~~
robinhood
Not at this point. I've added it to the list of things to consider for the
reports though ([https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ee/issues/1271](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/1271))
------
superquest
This reminds me I should give [https://wakatime.com/](https://wakatime.com/)
another try ...
~~~
sytse
Wakatime is great and they have GitLab support
[https://wakatime.com/blog/19-connect-your-wakatime-to-
gitlab](https://wakatime.com/blog/19-connect-your-wakatime-to-gitlab)
I think they are considering adding support for GitLab time tracking but I
can't find the issue.
------
d33
Actually that's least exciting release I saw for some time. Is it just me or
are the changes rather minor for non-EE users this month?
~~~
josh64
There are still a couple of nice CE changes there:
* Review apps being complete - [https://about.gitlab.com/2016/11/22/introducing-review-apps/](https://about.gitlab.com/2016/11/22/introducing-review-apps/)
* Prevent merge until Review is done - [https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/user/project/merge_requests/merge...](https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/user/project/merge_requests/merge_request_discussion_resolution.html)
I guess it does seem less exciting considering the huge changes they've made
this year. 8.15 will be interesting considering it is meant to close off their
"Idea to Production" workflow.
edit: changed the merge request URL from the EE one to the CE one even though
the content is basically the same.
~~~
merb
A lot of people don't need review apps. My company is too damn small to have a
Kubernetes/Openshift Cluster/Machines running just idling and waiting till a
review app needs to spun up.
Also we are using staging pretty heavily and do version based
deployments/installers, where it's really not necessary. We actually release
more often than Gitlab tough, one non bug fix version every two weeks.
For me review apps would've been the EE feature and time tracking the non EE
one, especially since time tracking is also the one that many smaller
companies might use.
I Also think that they should add a way to have -no-ff merges for CE (not all
options but -no-ff would be helpful), but actually that's a EE only feature.
Well we switched from Stash/BitBucket to it and are still happy since we
screwed JIRA also and it's way easier to maintain. I mean JIRA/Bitbucket still
have no apt/rpm repository?! Still wondering what happens if gitlab upgrades
PostgreSQL, if that will happen automatically...
~~~
robinhood
When GitLab upgrades PostgreSQL, it will require a manual step (typing a
command through the `gitlab-ctl`) as it involves downtime and can take quite
some time depending on how big the database is.
------
sdsk8
Gitlab is the first real competitor that make me really thinking in a
migration, i just have to convince everybody here in my company.
------
stonogo
Time tracking?
Time to move off gitlab.
~~~
BHSPitMonkey
Is there a reason this feature offends you so?
~~~
malinens
Programmers hate when management forces to track their spent time. It's very
annoying and unhelpful to anybody
~~~
vetinari
It's helpful. when you have to quote estimates to your customer, this estimate
is what is going to be really billed and then you want to know, how much you
were off, whether you actually have some margin. By comparing estimates to
actuals, you can get better at your estimates.
It can be annoying, but for example, redmine-style time tracking in checkin
comments are quite unobtrusive.
~~~
robinhood
Do you use this feature with Redmine? (time spent in commit messages)
~~~
vetinari
Yes, although some colleagues prefer logging their time separately. The commit
message allows only for specifying hours, the separate time-sheet entry also
date and activity (i.e. designing, testing, documenting, and other non-
strictly programming activities). It also allows to specify the same task
several times, without having multiple commits :)
~~~
robinhood
The concept of "activity" is interesting. I've created an issue to talk about
it, thank you. [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ee/issues/1304](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/1304)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Don't look now, but Gmail is on the verge of getting major upgrades daily - technologizer
http://technologizer.com/2009/02/11/mighty-morphin-gmail-dawn-of-the-daily-upgrade/
======
peregrine
It seems Google has had these small updates waiting for the big time. And now
that times are bad pushing them harder, to bring consumer confidence that
Google will continue to innovate and to ensure stock holder confidence. Either
way its good for us. :)
~~~
enomar
I don't think they were holding back so they could use these features as PR.
It's the Gmail labs infrastructure that is driving these updates. It's
apparently something like an internal extensions platform for Gmail, making it
a lot easier for them to develop and try out crazy ideas.
[http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=m...](http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=29418)
------
billturner
It's been fun seeing all the new features popping up on the Labs page.
Meanwhile, Hotmail _finally_ adds POP3 capability.
------
Hexstream
How do you take a super tall screenshot of a page that won't fit on the screen
like that??
~~~
there
<http://pearlcrescent.com/products/pagesaver/>
------
AndrewWarner
As long as they keep putting the changes into labs, they're not hurting
anyone.
------
AndrewWarner
Looks like the dawn of email as a platform.
------
lionhearted
Gmail question: I like the old interface because the contrast between the
buttons and background are easier to see faster. So I click "Older Version" in
the top right corner of the screen to switch to the older version. The next
time I close the window with Gmail in it, and go back to Gmail, I'm back using
the new version. All thoughts/solutions very welcome and appreciated.
~~~
briansmith
You can use the new version with the old color scheme. In the settings there
is a section for "theme" or whatever and one of the themes is "classic" or
similar.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Death Star would't be that expensive - sutterbomb
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/death-star-surprisingly-cost-effective-weapons-system
======
padobson
My problem with this article is that it seems to assume that every world
represented in the Galactic Republic has the same GDP as Earth.
I could agree with Coruscant being even an order of magnitude more productive
than Earth, but Tatooine or Geonosis seem to be more akin to the outer planets
in, say, Firefly (that's right, I'm mixing my scifi franchises).
Those planets are more than likely still behind present day Earth.
But, with the cannonical number of Star Wars planets being 1.24 million, they
still might be able to foot the bill.
I'm also a bit disappointed there was no technology multiple for the Galactic
economy. A society able to achieve something like alchemy (seems within reach
for the Galactic Republic) would be able to generate raw material like steel
at a very low cost.
I'm mostly thinking out loud here, but I'd say this whole concept needs more
brainpower poured into it.
Also, Hacker News should have a rule that we talk about Star Wars every
Friday.
~~~
Zimahl
> Also, Hacker News should have a rule that we talk about Star Wars every
> Friday.
Seconded.
------
graywh
First off, the technology of the Star Wars universe is well in our future. How
far into our future? Well, Star Trek is about 300 years in our future, and the
technology of Star Wars is obviously well beyond that.
Well, ST has teleportation and SW does not. And I'm not sure the comparison is
so easy.
Let's call it 500 years.
In the SW universe, galaxy-wide space travel has been around for millennia.
~~~
timwiseman
Yes, my impression is that Star Trek technology is well beyond Star Wars
technology in _most_ ways. Replicators and transporters have no equivalent in
Star Wars. Similarly, if we go to TNG and beyond, there is no comparison for
holodecks,a nd medical technology in Star Trek seems better.
But one area where SW has a huge advantage is travel speed. In expanded
universe material SW talks about travelling from the very edge of the Galaxy
to the core in a few weeks, and that fits nicely with the few vague references
in the movies. In Star Trek though it takes decades to go from the center of
just one quadrant of the galaxy to the center of another (Voyager was entirely
about that).
Also Star Wars has the force and Star Trek only has a few species with limited
telepathy (unless you count Q of course).
~~~
Jach
I decided some years ago that it really boils down to the name differences.
Star Wars outclasses Star Trek in firepower and speed by far, it's a warlike
place. Why launch a planetary invasion when one can just destroy the solar
primary? Star Trek has a ton of underutilized technologies, they could
optimize a lot but there's a general sense that the trek is more important
than the end result. (As just one example, the Federation being perfectly okay
with limiting warp speed to factor 5 when they found out warp was killing the
fabric of space-time.)
Then you have the various Stargate series, which fix up a lot of the
underutilization problems of Star Trek. Teleporting nukes into the enemy ship?
Of course! Replicators replicating ZPMs, a non-Deathist attitude toward life,
and in the late Universe series they had finally explored aliens that don't
speak English!
------
jaysonelliot
The main assumption that seems wrong to me is the idea that a massive energy
weapon is even a good idea when it comes to destroying planets.
All you really need is a big enough rock to throw at it (apologies to Robert
A. Heinlein).
A planetwide extinction event could be triggered with an asteroid just a
couple dozen km in diameter. With a really big rock, say 400km across, you
could boil off the oceans, according to Charles Cockell:
[http://books.google.com/books/about/Impossible_extinction.ht...](http://books.google.com/books/about/Impossible_extinction.html?id=v9VnZYj75DYC)
I imagine that even if a hyper-advanced Evil Empire wanted to vaporize a
planet completely, it would be more efficient to push it off its orbit and
into the sun than it would be to build a steel planet with a massive energy
beam. And that's still ignoring all the other problems physics has in store
for a planet-sized object that can be steered through space, enters other
solar systems, and gets close enough to a planet to blow it up.
~~~
jerf
In context, that is not true. In the Star Wars universe, planets have
planetary shields, which are extremely powerful and able to take a lot of
abuse. An asteroid strike is _wildly_ less powerful than what the Death Star
can inflict on a planet; ten+ of orders of magnitude, and I mean that fully
literally. An asteroid strike may be enough to wipe out an unprotected
civilization, but it hardly affects the planet underneath. The Death Star
delivered enough energy to the target to undo the entire binding energy of the
planet and completely disassemble it, _and_ do it quite quickly. That's the
difference between a very large nuclear strike, let's say 10^20J for roundness
[1], vs. the binding energy of a planet, call it 10^32J, plus a great deal
extra kinetic energy to blow the planet apart at a sufficient speed to satisfy
Hollywood's need for instant spectacle.
For that matter, the canon specifications for a single turbolaser strike are
on the order of what we'd associate with a very large nuclear event; if a
planetary shield can withstand sustained bombardment by multiple Star
Destroyers, moving an asteroid around isn't going to matter.
(One could discuss accelerating an asteroid to kinetic kill speeds, but if you
_can_ build a Death Star, it is certainly a lot easier to control and deploy.)
In real life, of course, with no plausible mechanism for anything like
"shields" to exist, you are of course correct. If you're patient one can
completely destroy all life on a planet with distressingly small investments
of energy not entirely dissimilar to what we could produce today.
[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent> , I'm spec'ing out a ~20
gigaton strike here.
[2]:
[http://scienceblogs.com/builtonfacts/2009/02/the_physics_of_...](http://scienceblogs.com/builtonfacts/2009/02/the_physics_of_the_death_star.php)
~~~
afterburner
You missed something: you can simply pulverize the asteroid with a ground
based laser cannon. No need for shields.
------
VonLipwig
If a Death Star takes a couple of decades of build wouldn't be obsolete by the
time its finished?
Also, I am not that into Star Wars but I understand that the Death Star is
big? Like a small planet right?
Wouldn't it just be cheaper to take a shovel to one of Saturn's moon. Mount a
giant cannon and nail on some fairly large booster engines?
I mean.. the whole idea of building a planet sized space craft from metal
seems silly when there are plenty of large space objects ready to be
commandeered and turned into very large space vessels. Should also be noted
that a moon has a long track record of surviving very large impacts. A metal
structure? Perhaps not so much.
~~~
ajuc
Even now, on Earth, we are using airplanes that were built decades ago. We are
also building new aeroplanes designed decades ago (F-16), that have only
electronic upgrades (avionics, radar, etc).
Most armed forces around the world consist of vehicles designed in '80 or '90.
And I think Death Star is more complicated than tank or plane.
~~~
timwiseman
When I served in the 82nd some of the NCOs told me that some of the vehicles
we used had seen service in Vietnam. I never verified this, but I did verify
that some of them were manufactured in the Vietnam era.
~~~
razzmataz
Did you serve while the Sheridan tanks were still being used? Those saw action
in 'Nam.
------
maaku
As expensive as that steel may be to buy at first, destroying even one planet
scatters many times that much metal in easily minable chunks from the planet's
mantle and core. It'd have one heck of a ROI without resorting to taxes or
outright extortion.
~~~
kijin
Only if the destroyed planet has a large metallic core. The Earth is the
densest planet in the solar system due to it metal content. Many small planets
and large satellites are primarily made of rock and water ice instead. That
would just cause the Death Star to rust.
~~~
pavel_lishin
You need oxygen to rust, and there's not that much of it in space.
~~~
kijin
Oops, forgot that. But H2O exposed to solar radiation tends to split into
hydrogen and oxygen. That's how some scientists think Venus lost all its
water. /excuse
~~~
pavel_lishin
I thought about that; I still doubt that there would be a high enough
concentration for rust to be a problem, when you compare it to everything else
(ablation damage, radiation damage, tidal forces.)
It would be like worrying about your rifle rusting while in a battle.
~~~
kijin
Ablation damage might not be a concern if everything is vaporized, i.e. turned
into gas. Also, if you're getting bombarded with high-energy oxygen atoms,
that's just called rusting! Anyway, it's all SF.
BTW, new crazy idea: a weapon that propels high-energy oxygen atoms toward the
enemy, instantly oxidizing the enemy's rifles. Enemy combatants might also get
killed as a side effect. :)
------
zacharyvoase
I hate to be a pedant but Star Wars was actually set in the _past_...
~~~
dsr_
In a galaxy far, far away. Nobody in that movie is a human, so estimating
economics based on a few centuries of progress is as reasonable as anything
else. (Repulsors? Whatever-the-heck a lightsaber blade is? Hyperspace? Mystic
magic-wielders in robes? Star Wars is fantasy.)
------
zach
Just to let you guys know, Kevin Drum (the author) may be a political blogger
but he's a smart, incisive writer that I think most Hacker News readers can
appreciate even if you wouldn't otherwise visit the Mother Jones website.
I went to a _Jeopardy!_ audition six years ago where a contestant named Kevin
stated his occupation as "blogger". I chuckled to myself that "blogger" was
the new "unemployed" and then he described what he blogged about. Wait,
Kevin... Drum? I'd just read his blog a few days ago — that really _is_ his
job, I realized! He was obviously a sharp guy but unfortunately didn't made it
on the show. I caught up with him after the audition and he was very
personable and interested to know what other blogs I read. I introduced him to
Marginal Revolution, which was little-known at that time.
If your political interests line up, his blog is a good add to your feed
reader. Even if not, it's worth a visit for interesting graphs of the moment
and random non-political content such as these recent items:
[http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/chart-day-rise-
mac...](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/chart-day-rise-machine)
[http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/federal-
benefits-a...](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/federal-benefits-
able-bodied-workers)
[http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/people-have-
surpri...](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/people-have-surprisingly-
strong-opinions-about-south-dakota)
[http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/better-grad-
studen...](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/better-grad-students-
please)
[http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/my-memory-hazy-
fog...](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/my-memory-hazy-fog-how-
about-yours)
------
ndefinite
From an economic standpoint it's not inflation you need to factor in it's the
reduction in cost of production over 500 years (assuming away any issues with
the time scale the author presents). Also known as deflation which is in fact
a good thing (sorry Chicago School, more for less is a good thing).
Over time advances in technology and increases in capital (capital defined as
production goods here not cash) tend to dramatically reduce the cost of
production.
Not to mention the insane decrease in the cost of raw materials once you start
collecting from asteroids (again assuming we're 500 years out and can build a
moon sized ship we can certainly snag an asteroid or two for materials).
~~~
openyogurt
Right. I thought it odd that the price of steel and labor would remain
constant for 500 years.
------
granitepail
I can't help but feel as though this article was a massive waste of time. I
know it's certainly not the point of the article to be thorough, but the
claims are all utterly baseless and not even remotely applicable to...
anything.
~~~
mechanical_fish
It's a Fermi problem:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem>
An absurdly whimsical and fairly basic Fermi problem, but, hey, why should
physicists and engineers hog all the fun?
As for the practical applications of this problem: Any game which a)
encourages people to estimate costs in terms of percentage of GDP and b) makes
the point that GDP per capita tends to grow over time is a useful educational
gambit.
~~~
ThaddeusQuay2
It's also a Kardashev problem, and a BDO, and kind of like Ringworld.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dumb_Object>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld>
~~~
mechanical_fish
/me hurriedly turns noprocrast back on
~~~
ThaddeusQuay2
Good idea. As a civilization, we're a bit behind on the big stuff. Personally,
I'm starting NUBE: Nerds United for a Better Earth. We'll use nanotech to turn
this planet into a death star, thereby mooting all of that space-related
effort. Why build ships when we can just make the planet go?
~~~
pavel_lishin
How do you plan on heating the planet and protecting it from space debris?
Let's just borrow a chapter from Ringworld, and move the Sun, dragging the
Earth along. I don't have enough napkins for a calculation, but it may be
possible to just trail the star as it clears debris ahead of us, while also
keeping us warm. (Naturally, the exhaust would have to be redirected around
Earth - I don't know if it would be easier to build something around the sun
to do this, or to place a shield around the planet.)
~~~
ThaddeusQuay2
How should I know any of that? I'm still busy designing NUBE's logo! Although,
if we were to have lunch at a place which was cognizant enough of our needs to
provide copious napkins, I would guess that one way to accomplish the goals of
which you speak, would be to accrete, around the Earth, a solid shell
consisting of asteroids, with plenty of space between the planet and the
shell. The planet's surface would be heated due to a combination of the heat
which escapes the core, and through the use of nuclear energy, in some
fashion, because both of those sources would be trapped by the shell. The
shell would obviously protect from space debris, and less obviously, due to
its thickness and density, it would protect from the radiation likely to be
encountered in deep space.
AsteroidShell = 3For1Deal!
~~~
pavel_lishin
If you live in NYC, I'd actually be glad to meet you for lunch.
But we MUST discuss this idea, using only napkins for paper.
~~~
ThaddeusQuay2
I live in Philadelphia, PA.
[http://idea-sandbox.com/blog/2007/11/cocktail-napkin-noteboo...](http://idea-
sandbox.com/blog/2007/11/cocktail-napkin-notebooks)
~~~
pavel_lishin
Dang, well, let me know if you come up here :P
------
LaGrange
The only issue is, the sun won't power economy that big:
[http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/can-economic-
gro...](http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/can-economic-growth-last/)
~~~
kijin
An empire that consists of 10,000 planets (as the article assumes) could
probably commandeer a few thousand stars for its energy needs.
------
wisty
Why calculate it based on volume? That's what the students did. Surely, the
Death Star is hollow, and surface area (times some thickness factor, because
it's probably thicker) would be better.
~~~
zanny
It isn't very hollow, the star wars nerd books I have read / seen about it
make it out to be a few thousand stories tall skyscraper built in the shape of
a sphere in space.
Only the reactor in the center and all the piping for the laser / exhaust is
open unused space for the most part. And the docking facilities for
spacecraft. Besides that it is office space living quarters etc. It is meant
to hold a million troops constantly.
~~~
wisty
OK, it might be better to come up with some scaling law. Frigates,
Battleships, and Carriers will have different volume/weight ratios.
------
badboy
So let's start some fundraising right now.
~~~
stevejalim
Kickstarter's first $852 quadrillion project?
------
Craiggybear
Building a Death Star out of steel is probably as good an idea as building it
out of wood.
~~~
JanezStupar
I agree. The baddest weapon in universe certainly requires Unobtainium. And
with the current market prices of Unbotainium and availability forecasts the
way they are all the estimations are off by at least two orders of magnitude.
I mean one cannot compromise architecture. Thats why smart architects use
Unobtainium and Oracle databases if they are Software Architects.
------
ThaddeusQuay2
"Kevin Drum is a political blogger for Mother Jones."
Yes, politicians and the politically-oriented are those of us who best
understand space, the technologies required for use in it, and the costs
related to the same. They've already shown us the greatness of their
leadership abilities in this area of human endeavor. Sign me up for Death
Star, v0.9Beta.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Feedback welcome: Current project - Salesforce.com Cloud Backup - bobx11
http://www.datatrailer.com
======
bobx11
We use CouchDB and Python to backup your salesforce.com data which allows us
to capture all your history and then when you're ready to take a local mirror,
we can just use the CouchDB mirror function to send you all the data on an
ongoing basis. Uses rackspace and a pile of open source / free software.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The BBC is getting back into the computer business - wdding
http://qz.com/446839/the-bbc-is-getting-back-into-the-computer-business/
======
mostlystatic
I was wondering about the cost or pricing, but the answer is they won't say
yet.
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33427816](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33427816)
> The BBC won't give exact figures on the costs - it says they're commercially
> sensitive - but says the vast majority is being covered by the partners in
> the project.
------
dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9844380](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9844380)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Analyzing mbostock's queue.js - bryansum
http://bsumm.net/2013/03/31/analyzing-mbostocks-queue-js.html
======
mbostock
This is great! Thank you for the code review. One of the aspects of Google
culture that I enjoyed the most were the asynchronous, detailed code reviews.
Knowing that someone you look up to will pore over every line of code
encourages you to get both the big picture and the details right. That happens
with less regularity in open-source, although it’s been a pleasure working
with brilliant people such as Jason Davies. So I appreciate this review
greatly; it helps not just explain the code but encourages me to do better.
~~~
abecedarius
A couple suggestions for this code:
\- Couldn't it be simpler without the linked-list queue? Use an array: the
first ndispatched are for calls that have been invoked; they each hold either
the corresponding result or undefined if not yet resolved by their callback.
The rest of the array holds arguments objects for pending calls. When it's
time to notify, this array is the results array.
\- The 2-space indent plus fairly deep nesting makes it hard to see where the
'main story' starts and ends, at least for me. 4-space indent goes better with
this nested style.
~~~
mbostock
Using the results array to store the scheduled tasks is an interesting idea.
Thanks for the suggestion!
~~~
abecedarius
You're welcome! I tried coding this up at
<https://gist.github.com/darius/5287542> (untested). I see you have your own
version now, which is longer but has a loop where I fell back to the tail
call. (I also cut out a line in notify(), though you might prefer the old
behavior of passing undefined for the results array on error, vs. the new one
of an empty array. I guess I would prefer the old behavior on reflection.)
Some doc suggestions from my draft and I'll finally shut up:
// Can you call things after the first .await or .awaitAll?
// Whatever the answer, it should be documented.
// Maybe document the assumption that callbacks get invoked exactly once?
// (It'd be possible to ensure it's at most once.)
// Document assumption: the notified awaitAll function won't mess with its array argument
// (this matters if we're called again after).
------
goldfeld
That's so great, and mbostock's a coder I greatly admire. I have had it on my
mind for the past few weeks precisely this--to get into the habit of reading
code, and in doing so write deep articles explaining it. Thanks for this.
------
aqrashik
Paul Irish's "10 Things I Learned From the jQuery Source" is also a really
good analysis of the jQuery Source, particularly for people still getting
started with Javascript.
It's available at [http://paulirish.com/2010/10-things-i-learned-from-the-
jquer...](http://paulirish.com/2010/10-things-i-learned-from-the-jquery-
source/) and should be interesting to people who liked this link
~~~
mitchellhislop
The followup is also fantastic: "11 More Things I Learned From the jQuery
Source": [http://paulirish.com/2011/11-more-things-i-learned-from-
the-...](http://paulirish.com/2011/11-more-things-i-learned-from-the-jquery-
source/)
------
rlx0x
Thats a neat code review, it reminded me a little of the really awesome review
of jquery, "10 things I learned from the jquery source":
<http://vimeo.com/12529436>
~~~
Gmo
Hey thanks for that link, I learned a few nuggets in there ;)
------
geuis
Interesting, I took a deep look at his code today too over lunch. I like
seeing different people's approaches to this problem.
My own that I wrote a while back is called when-then,
<https://github.com/geuis/when-then>
------
exit
i can't decide whether this code is clever or borderline obfuscated. if i were
a more confident programmer i'd go with the latter.
~~~
btipling
I'd say I like how the thing does what it does, and I even like the overall
simplicity of each of the functions which seem easily testable. I just don't
like the JavaScript very much.
> var node = arguments;
> node.i = results.push(undefined) - 1;
...
Adding properties to an arguments object, assigning the arguments object
(which is not an Array, only array-like) to a variable, pushing undefined onto
an array and subtracting by 1 to get the latest index.
This isn't clever, it's silly.
Simple is better than complicated. They're passing a special array-like object
all over the place, note:
> slice.call(node, 1),
They do this because slice isn't on arguments. They are using an arguments
outside of the function's scope.
The var statement in a while loop gives me the impression this person doesn't
know how scope works in JavaScript.
~~~
wizard_2
Mike Bostock is the author of at least three javascript visualization
libraries that are in heavy use today. It's safe to say he's got a firm
understanding of javascript. While including a var in side a loop doesn't sope
the variables to the loop, it is convenient. You'll notice he's careful to
assign to all of the variables with each iteration and doesn't use them
outside the loop.
The "connivence" taken with some of the other parts of the code (particularly
the complicated one liners) I'll raise an eyebrow over, but they show a deep
understanding of javascript. However I'm not fond of conciseness over
simplicity.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Can any iOS Developers answer me this? - markcrazyhorse
As part of my iOS Development journey I want to create an app that will find users of the app within a specified radius of the current user. The best way I can describe this is like dating apps when you specify how far you want to search. How would I go about solving this - Has anyone got any great links or tutorials they could direct me to? Much appreciated.
======
informatimago
1- geolocation must be enabled by the user.
2- you may forward the position of each users to a central server and perform
the proximity matches there, and send back the list of close users. That means
that IP connectivity is required (GSM or Wifi).
In any case, you get precise geolocation only when you have wifi networks
visible, so you may as well require that the user enable wifi.
Once you have wifi enabled, it is possible to use it to scan close users
directly, without using geolocation, by mere physical closeness.
You can also do that with bluetooth for closer distances.
So, how you would go about this would depend on what level of privacy and what
kind of application you want to do that for.
~~~
markcrazyhorse
Thanks for the awesome reply. Gonna do some more googling now I know a little
more what i'm looking for :)
------
raooll
Hi,
Here is a quick and easy way.Index all the user locations into a elastisearch
instance and as soon as a user opens up the app , fire a near query on the
elastisearch with users current location as input and get all the other users
within a specified distance as json from the elasti instance.
This should help you
[http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/referenc...](http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/referenc..).
The second option is to use mongodb for the same, but the first solution is
much easier and faster to implement.
------
hackerboos
You're looking for PostGIS or another GIS solution.
With PostGIS you can use ST_DWithin to find results in a certain radius from a
longitude and latitude point which is retrieved from the cell phone in iOS.
------
lowken10
You need to post this question to Stackoverflow (www.stackoverflow.com).
~~~
markcrazyhorse
I would but the question is vague and has no code so will only be closed and
downvoted.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Smalltalk, just take a look - mpweiher
https://hackernoon.com/smalltalk-just-take-a-look-d0a0052ed5e4
======
scroot
For anyone interesting in trying out, here are the open source Smalltalk
implementations available:
Pharo [1] Squeak [2] Cuis [3]
Note that these implementations have FFI and which you can modify / build
shared libraries for. The creator of Cuis, who works at a satellite company,
did just that by integrating OpenCL because he wanted the liveliness of
Smalltalk. Cuis is also the most minimal of the lot.
[1] [http://www.pharo.org](http://www.pharo.org) [2]
[http://www.squeak.org](http://www.squeak.org) [3] [https://github.com/Cuis-
Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev](https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-
Smalltalk-Dev)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pro Rata - craigkerstiens
http://blog.ycombinator.com/pro-rata
======
grellas
We live in an era where major founder leverage is a fact of life in the
startup world. Unlike the bubble era, founders today - or at least those that
are among the most talented - have substantial power in determining the
direction of their ventures and the investors who most benefit from this are
those who win their favor and align their interests along with those of such
founders.
YC is an innovative venture capital firm whose model depends heavily on its
maintaining credibility with the talented founders who run the ventures it
funds. In this sense, it has caught the spirit of the age brilliantly and that
is why YC stands out as one of the premier investment firms of our era.
A key element in this approach is for YC to do what it has done all along and
that is to take common stock instead of the almost sacrosanct preferred stock
that VC firms have always insisted on in the past. This radical innovation in
VC-style funding has set YC apart from the pack of VC firms, incubators, and
any and all other manner of investor wanting to hitch their wagon to the
talented founders who are capable of building successful, massively scaling
ventures that seek to transform all of world commerce. Its importance cannot
be emphasized enough as a key to YC's success. It has enabled YC both to be in
the midst of the fray and to stand above it, all at the same time. It is the
founder's ally even while it benefits mightily as an investor.
What then to do after the founding stage to avoid dilution to its initial
investment stake without jeopardizing credibility with founders? If YC were to
pick and choose in participating in early follow-on rounds, this would
selectively help and simultaneously hurt the various founders it works with.
Almost by definition, the fact of such an investment would brand some YC
ventures as in and others out of YC favor, a result that would prove highly
damaging to the aura of goodwill that is not only helpful but absolutely
indispensable for YC to maintain with its founders.
So how to maintain that goodwill and still avoid subsequent dilution in the
various investment rounds that inevitably follow from the inception of star-
quality companies?
Well, you can set up some fixed rules, make such follow-on pro rata
investments automatic within the defined bounds that make sense for YC, and
use that as a way of extending YC's leverage to help it keep the 7% (or
whatever) stake it begins with in each venture.
And that is precisely what YC has done here with its pro-rata program.
Founders usually have no problem with early stage investors being able to
participate pro rata in later rounds as long as they are significant investors
and as long as such participation does not jeopardize their ability to raise
later-stage money on good terms.
YC is of course a significant investor.
As to jeopardizing future funding terms, I believe YC has made a judgment call
here that the investors it typically works with will have no problem taking
something less than their accustomed full pieces in the later rounds to
accommodate YC and will therefore continue to finance YC ventures exactly as
before. Hence, no prejudice to founders and no loss of goodwill or credibility
among founders.
I believe this is a sound calculation. YC has been able to persuade VCs to
deviate from a variety of their traditional rules/requirements as part of
being a part of the YC universe. This is just one more to be added to the
list. It is a world of increased founder leverage and that means investors who
want to stay with the deal flow need to adjust and adapt. I think they will do
so here as well.
In a worst case for YC, this might prove a failed experiment. But the downside
of the experiment's failing is minimal while the upside in being able to avoid
later-stage dilution among a vast group of potentially valuable ventures is
huge. Thus, this makes eminent sense for YC for sure and probably for its
founders too. As for the VCs who will have to adapt a bit, they will survive
and very likely continue happily investing just as before. At least that is
how I read it.
~~~
petervandijck
1 copywriting quibble: "We live in an era where major founder leverage ..." ->
it's not an era, it's more like a few years and it could flip pretty quickly.
(Sorry couldn't help myself.)
------
frisco
Maybe I'm reading something wrong here, but I think this actually
substantially complicates the YC decision calculus. YC today is an
overwhelmingly good proposition and so I do think they can add this without
turning any off, but this does make further rounds either slightly harder or
more expensive.
If a VC wants to own 20% at the end of an A, or 10% after a B, having YC in
there with rights to buy back up to their 7% can add real dilution you
wouldn't have otherwise wanted or needed to incur. As someone who did a party
round seed and had a crowded A, it really does add up; though, it's for sure a
first world problem and won't kill you, whereas YC for many companies is when
they get serious.
YC is so valuable that this won't turn anyone off at the traditional YC early
stage, but I wonder how this will affect things for the "late-early" companies
they've been taking more of in the last few batches.
~~~
sama
The numbers are pretty small. Pro rata doesn't apply to employee option pool
dilution, so it's really probably only 5% of a round. If a VC says they will
do an investment if they can own 20% but not 19% of a company, I believe they
are lying.
~~~
jasonmcalacanis
Sam is right.... VCs put a line in the sand and everyone gets into a tizzy.
Then you say to them "listen, I gave prorata to my early supporters and I
intend to keep my word and reward them for their support."
The VC then has respect for the founder and say "OK, let's do it."
If they don't respect the prorata of the existing investors you need to ask
yourself if this is the right VC to have as a partner. If they are so
encouraging of you to screw your existing partners, how do you think they will
treat you in a down market?
------
staunch
YC has forgone billions by not maintaining their pro rata share in the past.
Later VCs got that extra money. Now YC will get it. Seems fair, correct, and
much better for the world. They'll do useful things with it. Another very
impressive improvement. Keep 'em coming!
------
jparker165
This may greatly change incentives for YC.
I've always thought being an LP in YC would be fantastic because of the
valuation bump companies get on demo day. Let's say a company could raise
money at $5mm valuation, but instead gives 7% to YC, and as a result can raise
at a $10mm valuation => (1) founders win by keeping more equity, (2) YC wins
by their investments getting cash with less dilution, and (3) post-YC
investors pay more (maybe still great investments, but not as good as getting
in at $5mm).
But to maintain 7% in companies up to a $250mm valuation, it seems that the
vast majority of YC's deployed capital will be in the place of what was
previous a "post-YC" investment.
YC should still be in the business of finding great companies, but might not
makes sense for them to help get gangbuster valuations at demo day.
~~~
sama
It is a statement that we believe investing in YC companies at post-YC
valuations is still a great deal.
~~~
jacquesm
I notice you use the words 'aim' and 'try' in your message, what do you think
is the risk that if YC does not simply always do this it will be perceived as
a very negative signal by other investors in later rounds?
~~~
larrys
I'd like to know the answer to your question but note the fact that sama says
this:
"we believe investing in YC companies at post-YC valuations is still a great
deal"
but also says this (from the post):
"And by doing this in every YC company, there will be no signaling issue of us
supporting some companies and not others."
So how can you have both statements be true?
In other words how can you say "still a great deal" and also acknowledge that
you are investing in all companies, not only ones that are a "great deal",
simply so there is no signaling?
~~~
nostrademons
I assume that he's running the calculation as a whole, on the entire body of
startups. In other words, _given_ that these pro-rata investments must be all-
or-nothing to avoid signaling risks, what're the financial returns of
investing in the entire body of YC startups that raise follow-up funding,
regardless of whether they're actually a good deal individually?
I can see how this could easily turn out in YC's favor. For one, the really
obvious failures often flame out during YC itself and fail to raise follow-up
funding, and so YC wouldn't have any obligation there anyways. And the really
big successes become worth far more than $250M, enough to subsidize many
failures.
The big question for me is what it does to incentive alignment - it seems like
YC now has an incentive to ensure that companies it doesn't like don't raise
follow-up funds, as well as incentives to get lower valuations on the early
funding rounds. It also in theory should make them pickier about their
application process, knowing they're committed to participating in any follow-
up rounds. On the plus side, they have an incentive to ensure that promising
startups _do_ raise follow-up funding (rather than go out of business), it
avoids some of their misaligned incentives relative to the rest of the
investment community, and they have an incentive to keep helping their
investments later in life.
~~~
rl3
> _On the plus side, they have an incentive to ensure that promising startups
> do raise follow-up funding (rather than go out of business), it avoids some
> of their misaligned incentives relative to the rest of the investment
> community, and they have an incentive to keep helping their investments
> later in life._
YC already has incentive to do this; their post-dilution stake in wildly
successful companies still shakes out as being far from trivial.
That said, it would certainly be fair to say that these changes probably do
serve to strengthen existing incentives.
------
coherentpony
What does this mean?
I have zero business acumen and have no familiarity with investing or how new
companies work.
~~~
theOnliest
Related: is there some reliable "startup jargon for dummies" page somewhere?
I'm often confused with all the talk of rounds, vesting, dilution, and
whatnot. I know there are books, but I'm not planning to get into the startup
scene; buying a book doesn't seem worth it to be slightly less confused on a
website I waste lots of time on.
~~~
ohitsdom
I second this request. Google took me to investopedia to learn "pro rata", but
that wasn't as helpful as reading these comments. The startup community has so
many buzzwords. My understanding of the jargon has increased a lot in the past
year I've spent time on the site, but I still don't know much.
~~~
jsprogrammer
Round: Some people are purchasing shares of your company. Given cute names to
indicate how many "rounds" you've done: Seed, Series A, Series B, Series C,
Series D, Series E, etc
Vesting: When you actually get the shares (instead of just being promised
you'll receive them)
Dilution: When the pool of shares expands without the existing shareholders
receiving a commensurate proportion of the new shares (used to transfer value
from existing shareholders to new). Usually occurs after each Round completes.
------
memossy
To put this in context YC is pro-rating its 7% to maintain that level until
companies have $250m valuation.
YC companies to date have raised $3bn in total so far, with a couple dozen
above $100m out of just over 800.
Therefore at most YC would have invested $210m if they'd done this from the
start.
It basically adds up to a couple hundred thousand on Series A, 0.5-0.8m series
B, $1-2m at series C, then at series D you'd hope to be approaching $250m
Given a propertied fund size of $1bn this makes sense in backing winners
probably funding 200 companies a year at $200-300m/year, particularly as major
pickup in valuation is A to C
~~~
sama
The math is off here; YC companies have raised more than double that amount.
~~~
memossy
Sorry, was looking at last summers amount [http://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-
portfolio-stats](http://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-portfolio-stats)
A run rate of $2-300m if its a $1bn fund (suppose you'll let everyone know
soon!) would make sense
------
leelin
Does that mean YC will fight against the "Major Investor" clauses in funding
rounds that only allow pro rata rights to investors who have X% ownership?
[http://www.2-speed.com/2014/09/dreaded-major-investor-
clause...](http://www.2-speed.com/2014/09/dreaded-major-investor-clause/)
Of course, 7% might be enough to overcome the threshold in many cases, but as
an angel investors in YC deals, I have lost my pro rata rights following a YC
Note/SAFE conversion this way (despite the docs suggesting I am protected).
~~~
hobbyjogger
It depends on how the YC pro rata rights are documented. It's entirely
possible that their pro rata right will be completely independent of any later
pro rata right for major investors (i.e., the major Series A investors might
get their pro rata rights _in addition to_ the continuing YC pro rata).
That blog post is helpful but not the best source of info. For one, it
confuses preemptive rights (right to buy a % of future financing) with first
refusal rights (right to buy shares from other current stockholders who try to
sell). And second, it's rather one-sided. Companies understandably want to
limit these rights to only big investors for a number of reasons but
especially because (1) it really can be expensive/time consuming to
continually contact or chase down signatures from an investor base that
eventually might include dozens of people/entities, (2) it can make it really
hard to convince new investors that the investment will be worthwhile when
there are pro rata rights to buy up a huge chunk of the round and (3) there's
a major signalling problem when the prior angels have these rights but choose
not to use them (the author mentions that he always demands these rights but
doesn't always use them, which can scare off other investors and, what's
worse, many angels will decline for innocuous reasons such as a seed-stage
only investor who never does follow-ons or a smaller angel who is priced out
by a high valuation).
------
jacquesm
I don't presume to know more about this stuff than the YC people, who are
scarily good at it but this is a significant departure from 'our goals are
100% aligned with those of the founders, what's good for them is good for us'.
~~~
brudgers
I guess it's a question of whether on average YC is as good or better a post
seed stage investor as the average VC who invests in YC companies. If YC is as
good or better, then the _pro rata_ is aligned with founders' interests since
the founders are raising X dollars at Y valuation either way and it's just a
question of which pocket the money comes from...it's still the same color.
In the universe of unicorns and rainbows, YC's participation puts the rest of
a round's participants on their good behavior to reduce risk on future deal
flows and the founders get a better deal. The situation in the universe with
evil Spock is of course different, but it was going to turn out that way in
that universe. In between a founder could probably ask YC not to participate.
Since the investment is blind and YC is under scrutiny by potential founders,
it may not be in YC's interest to force the issue and suffer Tweets of
outrage.
The potential problem is a bad cap table and the first order issue is VC that
treats that as an acceptable byproduct of a round it is leading or a company
that does not have better options.
------
tyrick
"We will try to do this for every company..." If for some reason this term is
not exercised, it will now unequivocally reflect badly for the company. I
don't question the good nature and authenticity of a YC "try", but the
sentence does naturally express doubt.
~~~
sama
We will do it whenever we possibly can--our goal is 100%. There have been
occasional instances where a company doesn't get us docs until 3 hours before
a close or something.
~~~
Skrypt
Is that the only reason? Or will there still be some sort of veto power by YC
partner(s) to opt out of the future round in extraordinary cases?
------
brayton
Who are the LP's of this follow on money?
------
jim_greco
The pro-rata provision is only for raises of $100M or more post-money. Is YC
only going to do these transactions for post-money between $100M and $250M? Or
will you ask to be part of raises below $100M?
~~~
snowmaker
Is that true for the provision for companies in S'14 or later? The new policy
will only apply to those companies.
~~~
jim_greco
It's true for W15.
------
foobarqux
Is the cash coming from the new growth fund that YC raised recently? Does that
fund have non-YC LPs?
------
ub
I guess this is a way for YC to participate in the upside of the most
successful companies without creating signaling risk. But from a pure
investment perspective, there's a possibility it might not end up being that
prudent. It will all depend on the home runs. If YC can create a few multi-
billion dollar companies, this will work out well.
~~~
briholt
Looks like there's a useful built-in selection bias. YC commits itself to
investing in future rounds, but only good companies will be able to raise
future rounds, so they probably won't get stuck doubling down on too many
failing companies.
~~~
_delirium
> only good companies will be able to raise future rounds
Given the rather poor returns of the VC sector overall, I'm not sure you can
make this assumption without more qualification.
~~~
briholt
Fair enough:
* ...only not-completely-screwed-up-trainwrecks will raise future rounds...
------
philipodonnell
I have noticed this language about avoiding signaling in previous YC
announcements and I think its a great thing to be cognizant of. Setting aside
the fact that YC itself is an enormous signal, its a sign of maturity to
realize that even your inaction is a signal. I imagine there was feedback from
past YC classes who didn't receive follow-investments that were suffering more
from the absence of YC than simply the lack of those funds.
Once you realize that you could either stop funding companies after graduating
altogether or invest in all of them, both of which remove the signal. With the
funds they have, clearly there is considerable risk tolerance for the latter.
------
lpolovets
Just curious, will this change how SAFE docs are structured? IANAL, but right
now SAFEs make it challenging for seed investors to get pro rata. That has
already been frustrating, and becomes a little more frustrating if YC
automatically gets pro rata on top of that. I know it's a free market, and I
don't have to invest if I don't like the terms, and so on, but it feels weird
for me if YC takes pro rata by default, while their default docs for seed
investors are stingy with pro rata rights.
~~~
MatthewMcDonald
The default SAFE docs [0] already have pro rata rights agreements in them.
[0]
[http://www.ycombinator.com/documents/](http://www.ycombinator.com/documents/)
~~~
lpolovets
Interesting. I wonder if the docs evolved at some point. In the first few
SAFEs that we did, we had to get side letters/special agreements for pro rata
rights.
------
lmeyerov
I wonder if this is truly founder friendly. Pro rata is a right given, and 7%
changes a _lot_ of the calculus when doing a round that is probably 20% to
begin with. Hopefully this goes along with YC asking for less equity, or some
other allowance. (IMO, most incubators already ask for much more than they're
worth, though YC obviously being a bit different.)
~~~
hobbyjogger
Eh, it's really not such a big deal. Maintaining 7% in a round for 20% total
only lets YC buy 1.4%. As sama said elsewhere, the difference between 20% and
18.6% (with an equivalent reduction in their $ invested) shouldn't change much
for a serious VC.
Given YC's history and reputation of being very supportive of founders, any
founding team is also probably better off with YC taking a cut in a round that
would otherwise go to another investor, especially given that the list of
investors who are as founder-friendly as YC is pretty short.
------
dataker
Is the Pro Rata agreement going to work only after receiving further funding
or is it once you join the program?
Couldnt that keep outside investors away?
------
thomasrossi
I don't see the reason to send no signals. There must have been at least one
situation where investing in a followup was bad. Declaring a strategy like
that is puzzling, I assume they have run a simulation
------
cfarm
What do early stage founders think of this? Like, hate, neutral?
------
1arity
So cool. YC is revolutionizing itself these days. YC Fellows, Pro Rata. Many
things people have suggested they might or would do are now coming to pass.
What's next ?
------
snakeplinkskin
What is the official success & failure rate for Ycombinator companies? What
percentage of companies succeed?
------
tonyhb
Are YC becoming a standard VC firm?
------
cdelsolar
Can this be applied retroactively?
~~~
devNoise
I don't think so since the pro rata wasn't in their "standard investment
documents". Thus YC doesn't have a clause that allow them maintain their 7% in
future funding rounds. Trying to maintain 7% on previous YC alumni, may caused
the mixed signals they are trying to avoid with this change.
------
jsprogrammer
No terms available?
~~~
loumf
The terms are usually the same: invest at the new round's valuation such that
ownership percentage is maintained. They will only follow, so the valuation
will be set by others.
~~~
jsprogrammer
Would be nice to see it in writing instead of assuming it's 'the usual'.
~~~
loumf
[http://www.ycombinator.com/docs/Series_AA_IRA.docx](http://www.ycombinator.com/docs/Series_AA_IRA.docx)
------
SandersAK
an announcement internally would have been nice...
~~~
sama
Doesn't apply to you--as mentioned in the post, only companies from S14 on.
~~~
beambot
Announcement says you have the pro rata provision baked into docs in S14
onward... but from your statement, it sounded (to me too) like founders from
previous rounds could also count on YC's participation if the startup
voluntarily holds open some room for YC in subsequent rounds:
> We will try to do this for every company in every round with a post-money
> valuation of $250 million or less.
~~~
sama
Fair; updated the wording. Thanks.
------
loumf
> Many new investors really like to see the support of existing investors.
Right, because it's a signal that you think the business is worth this round
of investment. Since you set this up as not being a useful signal, I think the
investors will probably seek out signal from you behind the scenes.
Perhaps this is ok, since it won't be public and won't have the effect of a
negative signal for the ones you don't give secret signal to.
EDIT to clarify: I believe new investors "like to see support" because it's a
signal. If it can't be used as a signal (as will now be the case), they will
seek signal anyway (in informal ways). I think they will do this by feeling
out YC through back-channel communications and "kremlinology" type
interpretations (even if YC tries really hard not to signal)
~~~
URSpider94
One argument would be that VC's are starting to feel like ALL YC investments
are overhyped, and that YC is generating its own returns via demo day.
Participating pro-Rata in all future rounds is a signal that YC continues to
think its participants are a good investment even after demo day.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Rails will Reign Supreme - luccastera
http://pivots.pivotallabs.com/users/chris/blog/articles/417-why-rails-will-reign-supreme
======
omarseyal
Ironically, one of the best places for Rails right now, lies in a place you
rarely see innovation -- the big-company-internal-portal market.
Most of these sites are built on old J2EE, STRUTS, or worse ASP stacks.
They've got complex configurations, and excessively convoluted deployments,
both of which contribute long lead times to updates. Rails allows for a new
paradigm that quite closely fits the demands of these customers. Sacrifice a
bit on the scalability / reliability end, and take advantage of Rails' agility
and simple deployment structure.
Because of their light traffic demands and simplistic feature sets
(integrations with other internal corporate services are likely just HTTP
based) corporate portals are a fantastic target for early Rails adoption. A
single decent developer (the sort you can still _hire) should be able to
construct and maintain a fairly complex corporate portal -- reducing
development investments (whether in-house or outsourced).
It will be interesting to see which "software as a service" / "software
consulting" company first adopts Rails as it's status-quo for this sort of
consulting...
------
davidmathers
Rails is great, but this is just a lot of pointless, poorly written, blah blah
blah. I wish I could down vote it.
------
pius
Actually, reading the tea leaves, I think Merb will become a solid competitor
to Rails this year and perhaps even overtake it in 18-24 months. This is all
speculative, of course, but there are definitely a lot of smart people taking
a very serious look at Merb because it amounts to a clean-room rewrite of
Rails that preserves most of its elegance and none of the bloat. Indeed, I
consider Merb's relationship with Rails to be similar to that of Rubinius's
relationship to MRI.
It'll be interesting to see what happens.
------
noonespecial
Hmm, a _here's why my favorite environment will dominate_ piece. I think the
proliferation of this type of opinion piece points to something even bigger on
the horizon.
_There is no clear successor_. There doesn't need to be. The computing
ecosystem in general has grown big enough now the we don't need to, as he
said, elect a new market leader. The rise of server side programming and web
apps means we can choose whatever tools get us to market fastest in the domain
space we've chosen. It might be rails, it might be lisp, and we might just
hack it together in perl. It might be a mashup of all 3 running on different
servers at different companies in different parts of the world!
------
kschrader
"For the moment, I will address this with the following observation: at
Pivotal we have many developers who know Ruby and Java and the same developers
are several times more productive in Ruby. In this comparison, my money is
more on Ruby compared to Python than Rails compared to Django; I can't see how
we can be as productive with Python as we are with Ruby."
So they know Java and Ruby, and thus Ruby is more productive than Python?
It makes no sense.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pitch yourself, not your idea - madmotive
http://cdixon.org/?p=1893
======
sharpn
Or rather, pitch your idea - but be aware that the person to whom you are
pitching may be primarily assessing _you_.
------
stevenj
Your market and distribution model may be even more important
~~~
lrm242
Your market is a gate. The best team in the world can't build a billion dollar
business in a ten million dollar market, so I think from Chris' point of view
it is sort of a given. Distribution model, IMO, will be a function of the
market (what it demands or will accept) and the team (what they figure out).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Red-black trees revisited - kinetik
http://t-t-travails.blogspot.com/2010/04/red-black-trees-revisited.html
======
ssp
My current favourite balanced tree is the treap:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treap>
In a treap the shape of the tree is uniquely determined by it being heap-
ordered according to a random number associated with each node, in addition to
the standard search tree ordering.
The various operations are fast and simple to implement. For example, deletion
is as simple as rotating the node in question down until it is a leaf, then
removing it. The rotations only need to preserve heap ordering, a much simpler
invariant than the red/black one.
The standard description of the treap calls for a field in each node
containing a random number, but you can eliminate that by just hashing the
address of the node. That's what I did in GSequence in glib
(<http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/glib/gsequence.c>).
~~~
sorbits
For simplicity in implementation but guaranteed upper bounds I highly
recommend AA-trees.
WikiPedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_tree>
Original paper: <http://user.it.uu.se/~arnea/ps/simp.pdf>
Tutorial giving intuition for this data structure:
[http://www.eternallyconfuzzled.com/tuts/datastructures/jsw_t...](http://www.eternallyconfuzzled.com/tuts/datastructures/jsw_tut_andersson.aspx)
~~~
shadytrees
Other cool balanced trees: rank-balanced trees [1], which have O(1) amortized
insertion, deletion, and rebalancing, and ravl trees [2], which do not
rebalance on deletion in hopes that insertions will happen soon and seem to
rotate fewer times than both red-black trees and rank-balanced trees in
experiments.
[1]: <http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sssix/papers/rb-trees.pdf> (2009)
[2]: <http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sssix/papers/ravl-trees.pdf> (2010)
------
stcredzero
Wouldn't it be more profitable, in terms of real-world performance, to adapt
B-trees to maximize locality in CPU data caches? (One could also apply
stochastic optimization to a B-tree based algorithm to reduce the number of
operations on delete.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why China’s Deleveraging Has Faltered - petethomas
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-chinas-deleveraging-has-faltered-1542964998
======
tivert
Partial paywall bypass:
[https://outline.com/e96Z82](https://outline.com/e96Z82)
It seems a few paragraphs from the top of the article are missing in the
outline.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
In 2018, Windows died at home and nobody cared - Tuldok
https://www.zdnet.com/article/in-2018-windows-died-at-home-and-nobody-cared/
======
Nullabillity
> Necessary Cookies are required for our sites, products, and services to
> function properly. Necessary Cookies cannot be disabled on our sites using
> the “Opt-Out" button below but you have other options for managing cookies.
> Necessary Cookies include:
> \- Google Analytics
> \- Adobe Analytics
> \- comScore
> \- Akamai
> \- Nielsen
> \- Evidon
> \- Moat
> \- Cedexis
> \- Chartbeat
> \- Index Tag Manager
> \- Tealium Tag Manager
> \- Google Ad Serving
That doesn't seem quite legal, how on earth do you justify 7 pure trackers and
2 tag managers (?!) as absolutely required for the site to function?
~~~
lucideer
Where are you seeing the above-quoted text? Is it a ZDNet/CBS or Microsoft
website?
Would love to share your outrage, but can't find it on either.
~~~
Nullabillity
It's copied straight from ZDNet's cookie management modal.
~~~
lucideer
Not seeing any modal. Is it regional (I'm in the EU)?.
~~~
Nullabillity
Maybe µBlock° was blocking it. You can access it directly at
[https://l3.evidon.com/site/425/3445/22](https://l3.evidon.com/site/425/3445/22).
------
apolymath
what a load of crap. Windows is the only OS that can play modern PC games
reliably. There are millions of homes with Windows 10 PCs, and your article
sounds extremely desperate.
~~~
CapricornNoble
Agreed. I've been using Linux exclusively on my desktop for the past......4
years or so. I'm on the verge of building a new desktop with a Ryzen APU
because I have a bunch of games that I want to play. Steam on Linux is amazing
but still no comparison to running Windows on a machine.
~~~
zaarn
I recommend looking into VFIO. IIRC it's not quite possible with the Ryzen
APUs yet but you can use a dGPU for the guest system.
------
slededit
And they are intent at killing off any stragglers by ever more intrusive
advertising, auto installing crapware, and persistent useless notifications.
------
pjmlp
Yeah right,
[https://www.fnac.pt/informatica/h10](https://www.fnac.pt/informatica/h10)
~~~
s_trumpet
Out of curiosity, what is that link supposed to be? Not loading on my end.
~~~
pjmlp
The Portuguese home page of FNAC European store chain, loaded with all
computers pre-installed with Windows 10, with the exception of a few Apple
ones.
~~~
apetresc
That doesn't really say anything. The argument isn't that Microsoft is ceding
Windows' territory to a competitor, it's that the product category as a whole
is shrinking.
~~~
pjmlp
Naturally, consumers can now keep their computers until they break, the 2
years upgrade cycle is gone.
However when those consumers buy a new computer, it is still plain old
Windows.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: ObjectCropBot – Interactively Crop Objects from Photos with AI - andreyk
http://www.andreykurenkov.com/projects/hacks/objectcropbot/
======
andreyk
I post this now (the project is a few months old) purely inspired by this
post: [https://blog.photoeditorsdk.com/deep-learning-for-photo-
edit...](https://blog.photoeditorsdk.com/deep-learning-for-photo-
editing-943bdf9765e1)
They basically took the same idea and instead of just producing a hack
finished a nice full version of the idea - very nice write up!
But, they don't have any web UI for it yet, so I am getting tempted to revive
my dormant side project and likewise make a proper polished version of it with
a web interface. If anyone on here is a talented web dev with an interest on
working on this as a side project (for free, and for fun, though we could
explore monetization if it works), feel free to get in touch! (ps extra get in
touch if you are near south bay area/Stanford)
PS Incidentally, I independently came up with the same idea as in Deep
Interactive Object Segmentation
([https://arxiv.org/abs/1603.04042](https://arxiv.org/abs/1603.04042)) and
implemented it for my Stanford CS 229 (Machine Learning) project first - the
hack came later. The ObjectCropBot hack allows only cropping and not clicking
because it was faster to hack in that, but I think it is ideal to allow both
cropping to constrict around target object and clicking (clicking alone leaves
too much ambiguity , eg do you want to crop the person, or their shirt, or a
subset of that shirt).
~~~
jboy
Nice work! My startup [http://objectai.com/](http://objectai.com/) has just
launched something similar, Pizza Photo Editor:
[https://pizza.pics/](https://pizza.pics/)
Pizza Photo Editor is still early-stage -- we're still adding features and
increasing the coverage of different object classes in our training data set
-- but the core tech is there, and it does have an interactive web UI, so it's
already fun to play with. :)
Looking at the example inputs & outputs for ObjectCropBot, it's evident that
the challenge is not just detecting the object and clipping it approximately,
but tracing a tight precise boundary around it. We've found that DNN/ConvNet-
based approaches don't offer the necessary precision, so it's necessary to
perform some pre- or post-processing using other Computer Vision techniques.
At Object AI, we've developed an "object boundary deduction" pipeline that
combines ConvNets with other tech. It's interesting that the blog post that
you've linked to makes the same observation!
~~~
andreyk
Wow, this is great! Maybe i'll shelf my efforts a bit , if your online photo
editor is this good... I did Google around and find some of these GraphCut-
esque refinement techniques, but have yet to find an easily usable one that
gave you a good crop with just an outline or tap (or both) - kudos for making
one!
As to the lack of precision of ObjectCropBot, I think a lot of that is due to
it running based on DeepMask and not SharpMask; Facebook's insight to run the
final low-res features back through increasingly less downsized images with
sort of skip connections is a good one, and I'd bet the resolution of the
results would be a lot better if I just hacked it to use that instead of
DeepMask (I think the thing I linked just uses that, pretty much).
------
delinka
Reading the title I was interested to see how this thing filled in the
background after cropping an object from a photo... Alas, it's detecting an
object in the selected region and providing a _cut-out_ of that object to use
elsewhere.
Still impressive, just needs a better name. There are two problems in Computer
Science...
------
eriknstr
Neat. However I think the proper term would be cut-out. Cropping is just
cutting of edges vertically or horizontally.
------
shimon_e
Looks nice. May I recommend getting free credits from OVH.
[https://www.ovh.com/us/dlp/](https://www.ovh.com/us/dlp/)
Are you available for consulting? I have a project in this domain that you may
be interested in.
~~~
jboy
Can you provide any more info about your project? Maybe my startup
[http://objectai.com/](http://objectai.com/) could be of assistance.
(My email address is my HN username @ my startup domain, if you'd prefer to
discuss over email instead.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Auto change wallpaper on linux from reddit (A Ruby Script) - blazeeboy
this script will get a new image from reddit every period and write it to an ixisting image on you Hard drive, if you set this image as your wallpaper you will have a constantly changing desktop wallpaper from the amazing subreddit called EarthPorn, they post grazy beautiful images of our mother earth.<p>i tried this script on a linux Centos 6 machine with GNOME/GTK2 Interface<p>Full script with docs : https://github.com/blazeeboy/RubyScripts/tree/master/2014-5-12
======
SamReidHughes
The url is bad, it's missing a 0.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Website review - javamber
http://flyamber.com.au/
======
javamber
Hi Would like some feedback on my site about the design, quality, if you would
purchase from the site or not. Thanks!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook reveals holographic optics for thin and light VR headsets - lopespm
https://venturebeat.com/2020/06/29/facebook-reveals-holographic-optics-for-thin-and-light-vr-headsets/
======
oedmarap
A logical next step I would imagine is Facebook acquiring/partnering with
existing manufacturers of prescription lenses (or sunglasses for outdoor use)
to push this mainstream.
The applications for this are quite straightforward; a semi-intrusive HUD that
can show you information FB already aggregates, such as:
\- GPS application for locating businesses or events/meetups (when
driving/walking)
\- if any of my friends are currently in a café that I'm walking by
\- ratings and promotional deals of a store in my viewport in 3D-space
\- etc.
~~~
atlasunshrugged
I think they're already working with Luxottica who is the dominant (close to
monopoly player) in the glasses/lenses market, although an acquisition of them
would be huge (current market cap is about 57B euro)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/17/facebook-enlists-ray-ban-
mak...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/17/facebook-enlists-ray-ban-maker-
luxottica-to-make-orion-ar-glasses.html)
~~~
ponker
Most of Luxottica’s value is in the monopoly control of the eyeglass business.
A pure Lens manufacturer can be had much more cheaply.
------
tmabraham
Dupe:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23692442](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23692442)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple Logo Is an Agnostic's Crucifix, Star of David: Study - rblion
http://www.fastcompany.com/1692055/why-the-apple-logo-is-like-a-crucifix-or-star-of-david-for-mac-lovers
======
antareus
> "Brands are a signal of self-worth," said Gavan Fitzsimons, professor of
> marketing and psychology at Duke. "We're signaling to others that we care
> about ourselves and that we feel good about ourselves and that we matter in
> this world. It's more than 'I'm hip or cool'...I'm a worthwhile person, and
> I matter, and you should respect me and think that I'm a good person,
> because I've got the D&G on my glasses."
How is this not satire? It is one of the most depressing things I've ever
read.
~~~
rblion
it is satirical but that's materialism.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Obama administration to tighten regulation on VCs? - quilby
http://venturebeat.com/2009/03/26/obama-administration-to-tighten-regulation-on-vcs/
======
pedalpete
Why would they do this? What is the issue they are trying to solve?
Particularly at a time when the administration is trying to figure out how to
enable growth investments this doesn't make any sense to me.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tell HN: Sell More Software IRC channel (freenode #sellmore) - makerops
Hey,<p>I created an IRC channel on freenode called #sellmore (just now...I am the only one in there) for anyone interested in chatting about selling software. Funnel optimization, conversion, marketing etc etc. I hope some experts would like to chat, as I am eager to learn.
======
robogrowth
i'm in! 20 years later.. still using IRC.
------
mindcrime
Good conversation so far. Hoping this catches on. #startups is nice, but it's
more of a social / chit-chat channel these days with not much actual focus on
tactics, strategy, or serious startup issues. A channel like this could be
very handy.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Postcards from Big Brother: The Curious Propaganda of a Brutal Soviet Era - prismatic
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/curious-propaganda-of-a-brutal-soviet-era/
======
smacktoward
I know we're meant to look at the subjects of these postcards and marvel at
how horrible they are, but some of them actually look quite interesting.
You've got plenty of your standard dreary Soviet-era monumentalism, of course,
but the Flower of Life memorial is humble and affecting, the Armenian Writer's
Union guesthouse annex is straight out of _The Jetsons_ , and the Soldier's
Field Memorial is one of the most creative war memorials I've ever seen.
Compare the latter to the new-ish, thuddingly literal World War II Memorial in
Washington, DC
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_World_War_II_Memorial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_World_War_II_Memorial)),
for instance, and it's no contest; as a way to remember both war and what war
really _is_ , the Volgograd memorial wins hands down.
------
Mediterraneo10
That postcard with an aerial shot of housing blocks in Novi Beograd must
represent a regional trend. In Romania after the turn of the millennium, I
found some old postcards from the 1980s in a bookshop that were still, though
covered in dust, for sale. Several of them were the same: aerial shots of new
residential neighbourhoods with buildings of not particularly impressive
architecture. I don’t know if Communist officials actually thought that
Western tourists would be interested in these kind of shots, or if postcards
were just exploited as one more disingenuous propaganda medium for boasting
about development statistics. Probably a mix of both.
~~~
simias
Even in non-communist France these horrible concrete boxes were once hailed as
the future of housing. When they were first built they had all the comfort the
middle class yearned for at the time. The problem is that they degraded very
fast and soon became synonymous with "poor people houses".
Here's a postcard from the 60's for instance:
[https://i.redd.it/3ofea4jd6k2z.jpg](https://i.redd.it/3ofea4jd6k2z.jpg)
~~~
baybal2
>horrible concrete boxes
The cubic shape has the best utilisation of materials per unit of usable
space. Houses must be cubical.
~~~
Jedd
> > horrible concrete boxes
> The cubic shape has the best utilisation of materials per unit of usable
> space. Houses must be cubical.
I think parent was describing combination of box-like aesthetics with the
unpleasantness that is concrete.
I think you may be mistaken - domes are perhaps a better utilisation per unit
of usable space.
Also, it's definitely not the case that houses _must_ be cubical, for any
reason(s), let alone just to attempt to maximise the ratio of materials per
unit of area / volume.
------
duxup
The regime was terrible, but I enjoy the scale of some of these soviet
monuments.
~~~
myst
Why do you think it was terrible?
~~~
swebs
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB)
~~~
d0mine
How is it terrible compared to other similar in scale countries?
~~~
PhasmaFelis
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism)
~~~
d0mine
I don't get the logic: if _you_ do it, you are a terrible person. If _we_ do
it, we are fighting for freedom or some such.
If you use the term "whataboutism", you are either ignorant or a shill.
~~~
PhasmaFelis
It's terrible no matter who does it. You tried to claim that it was _less_
terrible for the USSR to do it, because other countries did it too.
~~~
d0mine
Worse than no justice is only selective justice: one set of rules for us vs.
another set of rules for them
~~~
PhasmaFelis
True, but no justice is still pretty bad, and you're advocating for it
vigorously.
------
amatecha
Hmm, I was in Bosnia/Herzegovina, Croatia and Slovenia this past summer, and
saw many "spomenik"[0]... It is interesting to see these in person and their
size is usually surprising. If you are traveling in the area there's a site
dedicated to cataloguing the location & appearance of these monuments.[1]
0: [https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/spomenik-memorials-
yug...](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/spomenik-memorials-yugoslavia-
balkans) 1:
[http://www.spomenikdatabase.org/](http://www.spomenikdatabase.org/)
------
gumby
That monument to the conquerors of space (it's on top of the Museum of Space)
is as impressive today as it must have been in the 1960s. I was there just a
few months ago.
As for the pictures of apartment blocks, I remember those kinds of postcards
from the 60s and 70s myself in Western Europe, USA, Australia, Malaysia etc.
In this regard the Soviet Union and Warsaw bloc were no different.
------
Quequau
Something that fascinates and discourages me is how effective propaganda is
even when it is transparently (at least to outsiders) propaganda. There is so
much media today which is also transparently propaganda but somehow the people
it's directed at fail or refuse to recognize it.
~~~
ilaksh
There seems to be a belief (in the US) that the United States stopped creating
or commissioning propaganda at some point in the past. Most people might say
around the end of WWII. It's part of a greater American exceptionalist belief
system.
I am curious to know when people in this thread believe that American
propaganda stopped. For me there are so many obvious examples, from misleading
explanations on the news for military actions to giant blockbuster films and
TV shows.
~~~
jvanderbot
Yes, we switched to media. Easier to distribute.
I was on a flight and noticed a large number of modern war movies produced in
China. They were quite like American "Blackhawk down" or "12 strong". Clearly
meant to demonstrate the professionalism and ingenuity of their army vs the
rest of the world.
------
TaylorAlexander
Detractors aside, does anyone here think that we should build subsidized
housing en masse for the homeless in, say, San Francisco? If so, how do we do
it?
~~~
smacktoward
"Tax the rich" seems like a decent starting point.
~~~
TaylorAlexander
I’d be particularly interested in solutions that do not involve taxation or
any involuntary contributions. Can we change the law so that building housing
for the homeless is cheaper, for example?
~~~
davidgould
Do you have some ideas on how to make building housing cheaper? Make
substandard housing for the homeless, no need for fire or seismic code
compliance? Enslave the construction workers? Forced relocation to North
Dakota to take advantage of lower land cost?
~~~
stale2002
Building good housing is already very cheap, when you compare it to the actual
market price.
The reason why price is so high is because the government makes it literally
illegal to actually build stuff. AKA building height limit zoning laws.
Just go look at how much it costs to build a _good_ apartment building in any
place in the mid west. It's cheap. Cost has nothing to do with actual
construction costs. Its zoning and government regulations that cause all this.
------
shortoncash
Anyone know what to Google to see what the insides of those buildings looked
like? They look interesting.
------
kushti
"Though most of the memorials were built from the 1960s through the 1980s, the
most abstract designs harken back to the Russian Revolution of 1917, when
Vladimir Lenin and his Bolsheviks promised to empower workers and take the
reins from the Tsarist bourgeois." \- the propaganda language of the article
is illiterate as there were two revolutions in Russian Empire in 1917, Tsarist
regime was overthrown by February Revolution and bolsheviks overthrew
bourgeois regime in October revolution, thus talking about "Tsarist bourgeois"
vs bolsheviks is simply not literate.
~~~
v_lisivka
Historically, Russia has one revolution (February Revolution) and October coup
(Putsch)[1], which was then renamed into Great October Socialist [bla bla
bla]... Revolution much later.
[1]:
[http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t4/t4_38.htm](http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t4/t4_38.htm)
~~~
kushti
Then you need to provide a credible source which provides an explanation why
FR was a revolution and other is not, not a Stalin's article from 1918 you
provided which is not about that at all. Left-leaning historians often define
(a real) revolution as a change in ruling class, based on that definition both
FR and OR were the very real revolutions (one was about passing power to
bourgeois class, another about passing power to the working class), but if you
are using other definitions, please provide them.
~~~
v_lisivka
If direct speech of executors of coup are not credible source for you, then
what I need to provide to convince you? Wikipedia article?
First hand evidence is enough for any court in the world.
~~~
a7776f88862
You are being disingenuously pedantic by making a distinction between
synonymous words. From the linked document:
"Уже с конца сентября ЦК партии большевиков решил мобилизовать все силы партии
для организации успешного восстания. В этих целях ЦК решил организовать
Военно-революционный комитет в Питере"
Which translates to:
"From the end of September, the central committee of the bolshevik party
decided to mobilize all party forces for the organization of a successful
_uprising_. To these ends, the central committee decided to organize a
Military- _revolutionary_ committee in St. Petersburg"
Also note the reference to the counter-revolutionary plot. For Stalin, the
October coup was clearly the continuation of the February revolution.
~~~
v_lisivka
No, I don't. You need to understand that whole process, started in February
1917, was named "Russian revolution", while October episode was just part of
it. They were separated in to two "revolutions" much later.
See [1] for more details.
[1]:
[https://pikabu.ru/story/ot_revolyutsii_k_perevorotu_i_obratn...](https://pikabu.ru/story/ot_revolyutsii_k_perevorotu_i_obratno_kak_menyalos_naimenovanie_sobyitiy_1917_goda_za_proshedshie_sto_let_5717461)
~~~
a7776f88862
Did you even bother to read the article you linked to? The citations make it
quite clear that the terms were synonymous, and it was multiple groups (not
just the Bolsheviks) who referred to the October Bolshevik takeover as a
revolution.
~~~
v_lisivka
Yes, I read it. But I taken into account only claims backed by historical
sources.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Startups: "I Have No Idea What I Am Doing" by Buffer's CEO - geopsist
http://open.bufferapp.com/no-idea/
======
geopsist
"Looking back to when I started Buffer, even though I had learned a lot from
my past startup experiences, I truly didn’t know what I was doing and I
approached everything with that mindset. I was out there to learn and I knew
that the only way I was going to progress was to adopt a very open mind. I’m
writing this post because when I stray away from this mindset, I lose out as a
result." Joel speaks almost for everyone. I feel sometimes the same and I am
not in any way as accomplished as him.... Am I alone?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Notes from a job hunter - itgoon
I've been doing contracting for about ten years now, and here's what I've been seeing. This isn't about the good recruiters, or the bad recruiters. It's about the normal, everyday recruiters.<p>- Recruiters aren't looking for the best match, or even a good match. They are looking for the easiest match.<p>- Recruiters try to be negotiators, but have little authority to negotiate.<p>- What authority recruiters have is limited to their company. The hiring company doesn't save money, the worker doesn't make more money, it just goes to the middleman.<p>I don't even mean this against any individual recruiter. For the most part, they just seem to be doing the job the way they were taught to do it. I also get that the companies are just reacting to what employers say they want.<p>There's just too many conflicts of interest. These days, my initial contact with my "employer" is adversarial. I treat them just as I would a used car salesman. Is that a good way to start a relationship?
======
lscore720
For the most part, you are absolutely right and it's a shame - a damn shame!
It's the system, and while broken in many ways, is essentially all there is
right now. With that being said, recruiter-employer relationships are not all
the same; fortunately, the rare very good recruiter is capable of navigating
some of these problems faced by average recruiters, minimizing the negatives.
------
kohanz
What percentage of people actually use recruiters? I'm genuinely curious. I
imagine it varies greatly by geographic location. Personally, although I have
interacted with recruiters, I never found work through them nor did I ever
feel the need to rely on them. I was able to find the jobs I wanted through a
personal network or by simply applying to postings. So while I do feel the
recruiters are a pain to deal with, isn't the alternative simply to do the
work yourself? I see recruiters as a convenience service - like a mortgage or
insurance broker.
------
JSeymourATL
Contractor often connotes low status like a tradesmen in construction work.
Business development (sales) is a learned and practiced skill. Can you teach
yourself how to pitch your skills and expertise to a potential client like a
consultant? It will raise your status.
I've found the bigger the company, the dumber they are and more insular the
culture. Smaller and mid-size companies may be more receptive to you.
~~~
itgoon
I'm not discussing maximization, nor am I trying portray myself as anything
other than what I am: just some guy with good skills looking for work.
I'm pretty much a tradesman, much like thousands of others out there.
I see so much discussion about getting the best, being the best, etc. What
about that _huge_ middle which is so poorly served by the status quo?
~~~
JSeymourATL
> What about that huge middle which is so poorly served by the status quo?
Change the system or change your approach is the proposition. Even an Average
Joe (myself included) can figure a work around. I try to limit low-level
recruiter discussions. Prefer upfront conversations with the hiring execs.
~~~
itgoon
_My_ approach is fine. I'm not having trouble finding work. Your approach
sounds fine, too.
That doesn't help the huge middle who only seek work every few years. Nor does
it help those employers who are just trying to find someone who's good at
their job.
I'm trying to change (oh so slightly) the system. Plenty of employers and
hiring managers read HN.
In the best of systems, there eventually has to be some trust between the
principles. The current system begins by establishing _distrust_ from the
outset.
I'd think there would be plenty of people who would be interested in doing
something about that.
Or maybe everyone is happy with the status quo except me.
~~~
lscore720
You really do raise an interesting question, and no, you're not the only one
frustrated with the recruiting status quo! And whether you're the best of the
best, or just somewhere in the top 90%, there's probably an employer out there
and an appropriate recruiter to match you isn't asking too much. It's the
incentives inherent to the recruiting profession. To drastically improve it
would require a massive overhaul and is improbable (like drastically improving
literally any sales profession).
In the meantime, it's the little things that count and can eventually cause
positive change. A couple quick examples come to mind:
1\. Recruiting start-ups/show HN ideas: a few successful ones are adding
efficiencies, which is indirectly great for people like you. Because the
successful recruiter/hiring manager/etc. can devote that extra time to making
their little changes towards improving the system. Still, it's not hitting the
real pain point.
2\. HN posters like you, who remind hiring professionals, that there's yet
another frustrated customer - you sound like a reasonable, capable person that
a recruiter would be fortunate to work with; this especially lights a fire
under people's asses, so thank you!
My theory is that it'll require a serious effort by industry experts with zero
expectation of financial return. It's going to have to be about the purpose,
not the money, for the very (very) long-term. I shudder imagining the hardcore
YC community response to this "non-profit"-esque prospect, but I don't know
how else to solve it :-/
------
contechual
The only way for recruiters to become viable solutions as
"middlemen/middlewomen" are to learn about the technical aspects of the roles
they are marketing.
So often, a good majority of them do not understand what's an ideal candidate
profile vs. what's a potential candidate profile look like.
This all stems from experience and in my experience, many are lacking in that
department at the moment.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Top 9 Lies of Venture Capitalists - DanielBMarkham
http://www.entrepreneur.com/magazine/entrepreneur/2009/february/199626.html
======
jacquesm
That's surprisingly candid.
A few more:
\- we have to think about this for a while (that translates as 'no')
\- we'll sign a letter of intent first (that translates as 'you'll be on the
hook, but we won't be')
\- let our lawyers do the work, you concentrate on your company (that
translates as: You should let us write the contract, you just sign it)
For the best review of your chosen vc / group of vc's go and talk to people
they've already invested in, especially the ones were there was a bad leave.
Not to get a negative viewpoint, but to help you to avoid the same mistakes.
VC's are in it for the money, pure and simple. They are - with a very few
exceptions - not your friend and should be seen as a very savvy business
partner that could very well kill you to protect their investment, as they
should.
Think of them as a powertool, used right it may get you fantastic returns,
used wrongly you will end up hurting yourself.
Don't be afraid to make the rounds, even if you feel you have a good contact
with one VC, look around some more and take your time. Not to play hard to
get, but simply to learn the lay of the land. Pretend you're looking for a
spouse, and take it that serious.
Oh, and do get your own lawyer, even if you can't afford it. Pay them from the
investment you're going to get :)
~~~
time_management
_They are - with a very few exceptions - not your friend and should be seen as
a very savvy business partner that could very well kill you to protect their
investment, as they should._
How often is it good business practice to have a pissed-off founder out there?
You're opening yourself up to talent raids, exposure of company dirty laundry,
negative press, and future problems for all your portfolio companies.
~~~
jacquesm
If the pissed off founder and the investor are at loggerheads then that is a
very difficult situation, which comes up with some regularity, unfortunately.
How it is dealt with depends very much on the situation, I think that the
recent 'moves' of Monty and some of the other people from MySQL are a good
indication of what it can look like on the outside but I'm quite sure that the
indoors conversations were quite different.
The reason why is exactly the one you quote above, to avoid exposure of
company dirty laundry, negative press and future problems. But I'm quite sure
that in spite of all that it has gotten a little bit harder for sun to do
acquisitions and for Monty et. al. to get acquired again with a future startup
(not that he needs to, he's got enough cash to call it quits anyway).
------
lionhearted
First: Lawyers are worth the money. Pay them. Just do it. Get a personal
recommendation from _someone_ , and they'll take you way more seriously. Like,
call any lawyer you know, and ask him to refer you to a corporate lawyer. When
you call and say, "Hi, is Mr. Corporate Lawyer there? Mr. Friend's Divorce
Lawyer recommended you", you'll get _much_ better service.
Other people you can ask for lawyer recommendations: Your accountant, your
parents' accountant, your friends' accountant, your banker, your friend's
banker, or even just the VP at your bank. Go into the bank and say, "Hi, I'm
starting to get into business more - can I speak to the business banker or the
vice president?" It might be scary, but they're hugely helpful. My bank's
saved me a few thousand dollars over the last few years, and given me some
referrals to business providers, attorneys, and an accountant. It can be
scary, but talk to them.
Finally - big tip here - when you call your new business lawyer, ask his
secretary if he drinks coffee or tea, and how he takes his coffee or tea. Then
show up with a large version of exactly how he takes it to the meeting. Story
of why this is all awesome:
*I had a deal going on to buy out a partner's share of a company. I had a prospective contract, it looked fine, but I wanted to look it over with a lawyer. For a few reasons, the deal had to close within a few days, so I needed a corporate lawyer in Boston on short notice. I called an immigration lawyer my friend used to get American citizenship, and asked him for a recommendation on a good contracts/business guy. Got two names - one guy was in the Caribbean or some such at the moment, the other was available to meet me the next day. His rates were $250/hour, if I recall correctly. I asked his secretary, and he took his coffee with cream and sugar. I met him on Boylston Street with a large cream/sugar from Starbucks.
He found a way to rewrite the contract to make the LLC repurchase the
partner's share, meaning that'd be pretax money. He also tweaked a couple
terms to limit my personal liability (these had no effect in the end as
nothing went hostile, but was still good to do). Finally, he suggested that I
change the payment delivery to make it sooner, next-day air payment of a check
because it was a goodwill gesture, and I took his advice. He also explained
all the clauses I didn't fully understand and taught me a good bit about
contracts.
We went two hours, but he knocked his invoice down from $500 to $250 - due to
some combination of liking me, a personal recommendation from another lawyer
he respected, and a coffee. PAY THE LAWYERS! It's much cheaper than not paying
them in the end. Just make sure you're personally recommended to them, and
then be very cool to them. Most people treat lawyers as a necessary evil, but
if you see them as on your side (they are, at least in business law) and treat
them very cool, they'll treat you very cool in return.
------
TrevorJ
Some of these I would categorize as using tact. Lie may be a bit of a stretch.
Still good, useful information though.
~~~
time_management
It's more of a disconnect of languages between business-ese and face-value
English. The problem is when one is mistaken for the other.
If you're trying to hire a hacker and he says, "I'm really interested in your
project, but I'm not ready to make a commitment right now", he's indicating
genuine interest in your startup, and you might be able to get a "yes" from
him in 2 months if his personal situation changes. If a VC says this, it means
"no".
~~~
TrevorJ
Right, I see it as a communication gap and not as intended deception.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you create a sample DB from your LIVE DB? - gumuz
Our LIVE database is too large to be running on our dev machines, but we do need good data sample to test & develop on.<p>Does anyone know of a good solution to this problem?
======
Piskvorrr
We have always solved this by having a large dev database machine,
periodically synced it from live, and connected to it from the dev machines.
Hardware is extremely cheap, compared to dev time. (in the cases I've seen, it
was infeasible to select a _representative_ sample - we may need any of the
database rows; approximating the live database from just a sample was not an
option. I understand that your case would be okay with not having specific
data on-hand, as long as the sample is representative of the full set?)
~~~
DevAccount
One of my old companies also did this. It worked ok most of the time but you
just need to be that little bit more careful that your changes don't affect
other's since it's a shared database.
------
codegeek
For oracle db, we sometimes take partial db dump from prod. into dev/test
environment. But this is at my work where we have specialized DBAs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
DuckDuckGo is good enough for regular use - braythwayt
https://www.bitlog.com/2020/03/06/duckduckgo-is-good-enough-for-regular-use/
======
burlesona
A few years ago I switched my desktops to use DDG while leaving my phone using
Google. At first I had to !g all the time. Now that’s rare.
Now I’m starting to have the other problem. If I search for a company,
product, person, etc., on DDG it’s the first hit. But on google I just get a
wall of ads and videos, and it’s hard to tell where the actual homepage is for
the thing I’m looking for.
So as of now I would say, google is still better if you’re looking for
something obscure and especially if you don’t know what it’s called. But today
I would say DDG is better if you are searching for something specific by name.
~~~
teekert
My story is the same! Also, when I want colouring pictures for my kids, DDG
just lets met tap them and print them. That is nolonger possible using Google
since some months. I also very much appreciate the code snippets when (already
started typing "Googling"!) Searching for code related things.
~~~
bloodorange
I recently had to search for something similar to this:
march 12 2019 + 366 days
and DuckDuckGo gave me exactly what I wanted while Google gave me not-very-
useful results.
~~~
schoen
The date command can also answer this question:
$ date -d 'march 12 2019 + 366 days'
Thu Mar 12 00:00:00 PDT 2020
~~~
tus88
I starting thinking about the Python equivalent of this and it was disgusting.
~~~
michael_j_ward
This?
$ python -c 'import datetime; print(datetime.date(2019, 3, 12) + datetime.timedelta(days=366))'
2020-03-12
~~~
tus88
Yes.
~~~
labster
Raku is a lot prettier than Python:
perl6 -e 'say Date.new("2019-03-12").later( :366days )'
2020-03-12
perl6 -e 'say Date.new("2019-03-12") + 366'
2020-03-12
~~~
jimnotgym
Probably because I have a finance background, I would go straight to Excel.
~~~
teekert
Which makes dates out of things that are not even dates! (Like gene names)
------
chuckgreenman
I think I've figured out what is happening when people tell me that
DuckDuckGo's results "aren't good enough".
What's really happening is that they've been trained to search a certain way
to using Google and because DDG doesn't have all the historical data of your
searches on their platform they can't fill in the gaps as well.
After a couple days using DDG I found the right vocabulary to get good local
results and which bangs to use to get results from the sites that I want. It's
a more effective tool if you learn how to use it.
~~~
whalesalad
A lot of DDG fans on HN blame the user or social conditioning and use that as
a crutch. It’s BS.
You need to provide clear examples of the differences in order to really make
this argument to someone who might switch.
What specifically are the differences? The last time this topic came up
someone told me I was a total noob because I didn’t know how to use search and
that was basically the extent of it.
~~~
hedora
Google gives me bad results. It ignores some of the words in my queries, and
the context boxes are generally spammy and irrelevant. Even if the correct
information is somewhere in the results page, I bounce before I can find it.
From what I can tell from the article, this might be because I type too much
stuff into the search bar, and because Google’s manually curated semantic web
stuff is not relevant to me.
However, I’m really not sure why I can’t use Google anymore. It was better
when I switched away, so I definitely used to be able to use it (I didn’t log
in back then either).
Ddg is fine, and more respectful to its users. I don’t have a practical reason
to figure out what the problem is.
~~~
tracker1
I switched for about a month... for most general searches ddg was as good or
better... when searching for development terms as a programmer, I found that
the ddg results were often worthless to me. The context that google has
associated to you specifically adds value to the results.
Since most of my searches were for technical libraries, components, etc, I
found myself searching again with !g more than half the time... after the
month was up, I switched back. There are a _LOT_ of things I like about ddg
though.
It would be nice if DDG offered search roles, that could prioritize certain
associated terms together for someone that is say a programmer, engineer,
social media person, etc. This could be opt-in to maybe a dozen categories to
skew results on one way or another, but not tied to a person per-se.
Also, a shorter domain name would help.
~~~
mdaniel
> Also, a shorter domain name would help.
I'm surprised your browser doesn't just search from the "awesome bar", making
navigating to the domain a non-event
However, the answer to your question is ddg.gg _(unknown if that 's short
enough, but it's only 3 keys to press)_
------
anderspitman
I switched over to DDG a few weeks ago. I slowly regressed to more and more !g
usage, and finally switched back to GOOG a couple days ago. Then just an hour
ago I searched for "google fiber stadia", because I was curious how well they
work together. The main reddit result opened in an amp page (and of course
reddit pressured me to install the mobile app). I went back to the results and
started scrolling down. I honestly couldn't tell at a glance what was ads,
amp, or normal links. I personally feel like I'm in a bit of a no-man's land
right now when it comes to search, but I think DDG really has a window of
opportunity.
~~~
188201
I found that searching was more difficult nowadays. Result from Google is
becoming worse, filling with content farm and ads. In some sense, that gave
opportunity to become a better search engine without any technical
improvement, but better marketing.
~~~
Rapzid
Search "phrases" are starting to return more and more useless results. I typed
in some phrase as a question and got back a list of news articles about
coronavirus. Can't recall what it was but it had nothing to do with
coronavirus.
More and more often it will drop words out of my search; import words. I can't
help but suspect it's because it has more ads to show me without the most
contextually important bits of my search.
Half the first pages are ads. The next few pages may be shopping results even
though I'm not searching for something to buy.
Something.. Happened on mobile. The search results now have a bunch of BS
"sections" before the actual search results section! WUT.
Seems to be getting harder and harder to craft the right searches to get good
results. I miss the days when people would write articles with headlines of
"<topic> sucks". Was so much easier to find counter opinions to stuff :/
------
speps
It's only good enough when you're in the US, I live in the UK and DDG
consistently returns non local results even though the country is set
correctly, it's especially annoying given how many US cities are named after
their UK counterpart.
~~~
motogpjimbo
Also in the UK. It's noticeable that for many search terms, DDG's top
autocomplete suggestion is the term you just typed, with "uk" tacked on the
end of it. That suggests that many users in the UK are finding DDG's search
results to be too US-centric.
~~~
KuiN
This is _by far_ my biggest issue with DDG. I've been trying to use it for
most of my searching and I'm fine with having to append '!g' to ~25% of my
searches, it's not ideal, but whatever, I can manage.
Having to append 'uk' to 90% of searches after the first results page is full
of useless American shit, for search terms that Google UK handles flawlessly,
gets old, very quick.
~~~
sefrost
Do you have United Kingdom toggled on?
~~~
KuiN
The results did get better after I discovered that setting a while back. But
it's still not close to good enough and I still have to manually stick 'uk'
onto a search to find relevant results for most queries.
------
alkonaut
It’s not. Not even close. There should be some sort of “search benchmark” that
could show this more objectively.
A table of searches with search queries and the _correct first resukt_. In
maby cases it’s clear what the correct result is (Search for a major company
and I want their website index page for example). In other cases the expected
result is “what google does”, e.g when searching for “123 GBP in USD”.
It’s not that DDG doesn’t let me find what I want eventually, it’s that it
doesn’t have the right result as #1 which is extremely frustrating when you
are used to the I’m feeling lucky-click on the first result without reading.
To switch I’d want google quality results with zero added effort on my part
e.g in learning better DDG-querying or accepting a slightly longer time to
browse results. That’s pretty tough to pull off without the resources and data
that Google has.
~~~
igravious
Absolutely. Completely anecdotally I know but I switched to the Brave browser
recently to try it out. It came with DDG installed by default so I started
using it in the omnibar or whatever it's called. Like many here I do some
coding so I've been looking up stuff to do with Ruby, Vue.js. APIs, and the
lambda calculus. DDG results were not very helpful so I've gotten used to
navigating to google.com just like the old days.
As in, I'm so used to ctrl+t and type something to search that I had to train
myself to type begin typing google.com again. Yeah, I could switch the default
search engine but being forced to compare results is a good habit. These
articles about how DDG is hit the front page time and again on Hackernews,
this has never been my experience. I appreciate the privacy aspects 100% so
I'd actually prefer if it was genuinely competitive with the big G but sadly
this has never been my experience.
------
duncan-donuts
I’ve been using ddg for a little over 5 years. Those first few years of use I
found myself using !g a ton, but I think ddg’s results are actually better
now. Not that the search is necessarily better, but I don’t have to wade
through a bunch of ads. I know this is a tired position around here but
honestly there’s very little I get out of google’s search that I don’t get
from ddg.
~~~
CivBase
I've been using DDG for about three years now and I still use !g a lot, but I
really shouldn't. Google practically never finds what I'm looking for if DDG
can't.
~~~
beckingz
90% of the time I use !g, google doesn't have anything in the first few pages
either.
------
Grimm1
To my knowledge duck duck go uses Bing's search API to get their results. To
me Bing and Google have not been sufficient for my searching needs and the
needs of a large group around me for a long time now.
On a separate but related issue because DDG is using Bing the overall
experience is lackluster, as other user's have noted things like very slow to
re-index new results, new information climbs up to the top very slowly and
often times I have to switch off their search with a ! command to get my
results because they just aren't working. But if I have to do that I'd rather
be on that other search site entirely.
To be fair google also for the last few years has also started providing a
very lack luster search experience and using dark patterns around their
results to get you to click ads.
They all kind of suck.
My opinion is biased though because I'm currently working on a new search
engine to solve these things.
~~~
josefresco
It's actually Bing+ other sources, there's a page on their site that explains
it.
And I had the same opinion as you, until I started using it every day. My
habit was as follows: When I didn't get good results, I would switch back to
Google and run the same query. Over time I found more "purple" links in Google
indicating DDG was giving me almost the same (sometimes better) results.
~~~
Grimm1
That's an interesting process, I'll have to give it a try ;)
I mentioned it above but Google has also been giving me worse results in
recent years so I genuinely believe there's a better way to do these things
and do them in a way that is also more respectful of the users.
------
orthoxerox
I use DDG as the primary search engine on my own devices and Google at work.
DDG is still worse than Google in the following aspects:
\- autocompletion is crap, DDG thinks that "lyrics" is a word that improves
every search
\- DDG is worse at searching SO/Reddit/GitHub. Just a few days ago I was
looking for a solution to an issue with my 3D printer, and DDG missed the most
useful Reddit post
\- a filter bubble is often a good thing, I don't search for political news,
but Google knows I usually search for technical issues, so where DDG is happy
to return results about tabletop games, rock formations and corrosion, Google
knows I am looking for Go, Nim, Crystal and Rust.
------
irrational
I’ve been using DDG exclusively for years. People talk about how hard it is to
switch, but I’ve never had any trouble getting exactly the results I’m
searching for. I sometimes wonder what makes google search results so amazing,
but not enough to risk it.
~~~
magicalhippo
Guess it depends on domain. I've changed the default in Firefox a few weeks
ago and find that for "regular" searching DDG is enough that I don't go to
Google.
But for specialized searches I frequently reach for the Google override, and
sure enough Google has significantly better results. Like searching specific,
weird errors messages and such.
~~~
irrational
That’s the thing. The vast majority of my searches are development/coding
related. I always find what I’m looking for in the first few returns. I
sometimes wonder if I’d get even better results on google?
~~~
magicalhippo
In my experience yes. But as I said, often the DDG is good enough.
------
wycy
Agreed. I tried it a few times over the years and found the results to be
pretty poor, but I tried again recently and found the results to be good
enough to fully switch both my computer and phone to DDG.
Although I'm fully switched over, there are 2 drawbacks:
* Since DDG tracks you less, the results for local searches may be worse. If you're in Boston, TX you'll probably want to search for "boston, tx restaurants" whereas I'm guessing Google could handle "boston restaurants" if your location is in Boston, TX.
* Finding brand new results seems a bit harder. I found this especially true when searching for election results. Searching for, e.g., "nevada election results" was showing me results from 2016 and 2018 on the day of those elections this year. Now the DDG results seem to correctly point to 2020 results.
~~~
onychomys
I live in Rochester, MN, and that's how I can say with some certainty that
google doesn't do a good job of using your location in their search algorithm.
If you just search for something simple like "Rochester library hours", it'll
default to Rochester NY. Everybody in my town has learned that we have to use
"Rochester MN library hours". I get that the one in NY has ten times more
residents than we do, but it's not like we're some backwater here!
------
ebg13
I'll believe this when the third result for "filled torus" isn't "Cum Filled
Pussy Porn Videos" unless safe search is enabled. DDG's contextual awareness
is abysmal.
~~~
auiya
Maybe you just under-estimate the prevalence of porn searches on the Internet?
Once could easily argue that your esoteric geometry search is likely not
nearly as common as the results they returned you on what they surmised was a
porn search with a typo for instance.
~~~
kazinator
Maybe they should simply re-label their settings, for starters.
The safe search has three levels: "off", "moderate" and "strict".
I would call this the "Adult content" setting, and the choices would be
"prefer", "neutral", and "suppress". These would just map exactly to the
semantics of the current three choices.
Transitioning to the "prefer" option could require some dialog or check box
tick-off to state that the search engine will emphasize adult material, and
the user must confirm their adulthood to enable this mode.
Thus under the "Adult content: prefer" setting, you would then be getting what
you asked for. Your queries are interpreted as searching for porn, and "filled
torus" behaves accordingly.
Since the very presence of such an option might be seen as offensive, or as
promoting pornography (i.e. that DDG is effectively a porn search engine since
it has an option for preferentially finding adult material), that option could
itself be hidden somehow. To access the option at all would require confirming
through a dialog.
Also, there should be a "kid friendly" version of duckduckgo at an alternative
URL, with immutably safe settings and and possibly altered search behaviors
for even greater safety. Parents could point at that, and block/redirect the
main one.
With that idea, what if simply one had to go to adult.duckduckgo.com to be
able to search with safe-search "off", regardless of their settings? I.e. if
you go to duckduckgo.com, then "off" is treated as "moderate". Only at
adult.duckduckgo.com is it actually "off".
~~~
clarry
> I would call this the "Adult content" setting, and the choices would be
> "prefer", "neutral", and "suppress". These would just map exactly to the
> semantics of the current three choices.
I honestly think a better idea would be tagging all results. A lot of the
irritation with search engines seems to come from the fact that words can be
so overloaded and ambiguous. It's unreasonable to expect that any search
engine could return what you want in the first 20 results if there's no way to
narrow down results by tags and categories. Porn shouldn't be the only
category that gets special treatment.
For example, sometimes I want to search about how to make foo, and I get pages
and pages of results about... crafting foo in games. At that point I'd like to
turn off all results that have to do with games or fiction. Or enable
categories about.. actually making stuff?
And speaking of games, it's fucking irritating that the results aren't tagged
so when you try to look up information about a game in a series, you get tons
of results about more recent sequels and it can be really hard to filter those
out.
------
vesinisa
I don't know. I am using DDG from outside the U.S. but with English as the
primary search language. The Google's localized results are just an order of
magnitude better. I end up re-doing almost 10-20% of my searches in Google
after being dissapointed with DDG results. Most of the time Google results are
sadly superior.
And don't get me even started in searching in my native language (Finnish).
DDG is close to useless there, since it can not parse the different, obscure
word forms we use (although I type word X in form A, I want my searches to
include results in of word X in semantically related forms B and C). Google
did not initially parse Finnish very well, but it eventually became amzingly
good something like a decade ago.
~~~
benhurmarcel
For the same reason I find DDG very useful when I don’t want localized
results, which is hard to get with Google. I currently live in Spain and
Google returns mostly Spanish results, even on unrelated queries like
programming or a device review.
~~~
vesinisa
Be sure to set your search language to English. It will still return localized
results, but in English.
------
onychomys
Like the author, I switched over when the google ad thing happened, and for
the same reason. But instead of DDG, I decided to try out ecosia (
[https://www.ecosia.org](https://www.ecosia.org) ) which is a wrapper over
Bing. But they'll take all the ad revenue and use it to plant trees. So I get
decent search results (bing isn't quite as good as google, but it's pretty
decent for what I need) and also get to save the earth a little bit.
------
typpo
To add a little data on this thread, here's a list of queries that I
subsequently !g'ed over a 30 day period. Maybe Duck/Bing developers will find
it useful:
[https://gist.github.com/typpo/605a7cd9da88c3be061c6958a31fa2...](https://gist.github.com/typpo/605a7cd9da88c3be061c6958a31fa2ed)
Aside from a limited set of head queries where they've added their own custom
stuff, DDG is a wrapper around Bing. The results are identical and any
webmaster can tell you that Duckduckbot is not crawling the web like
Google/Bing.
In the same way that "Google is an advertising company", I see DDG as a
marketing company. They've done a good job marketing Bing results with a
privacy wrapper. I recognize the value, but it's different from competing
directly on search.
------
Thaxll
I strongly disagree, especially when you have all the Wikipedia / contact /
google map embedded into Google search, with one click it can call phone
number from a restaurant.
Edit: To add more, it's all those details that makes Google better than other,
search engine are not just for searching things it's all about the display and
relevance.
~~~
brann0
Mmmh, if you search for a place in the maps tab instead of the general one you
usually have a telephone url you can tap to start a phone call.
I still find that you're using a very specific use case of a search engine to
completely dismiss not using a different search engine.
~~~
PunchTornado
it's not a specific case. if I type federer on google I get a list of all his
recent matches and live scores so it is easy to follow. A lot of my searches
on google are like that. I don't even have to click on any links.
------
Jaxkr
No it isn’t. I try to switch every few months, usually sticking with it as my
only search engine on mobile and desktop. The results suck, and it is
completely lacking in information about real-time topics.
Just compare the results for a live sports game across DuckDuckGo and Google.
Or the query “democratic primary”.
In both of these google presents relevant accessible information while DDG
does not.
DuckDuckGo wastes your time but protects your privacy. At the moment Google‘s
results are so much better that I am willing to give up privacy in exchange
for convenience.
I will continue trying DuckDuckGo every few months. Hopefully someday I will
not feel drawn back to Google.
------
cpascal
DDG is my daily driver and I do not miss Google Search in the slightest. I
rarely need to !g and its often futile because Google returns nearly the same
results.
However, my favorite feature of DDG is it's native dark theme.
~~~
jamespullar
I just decided to try DDG out because of this post and am so happy there's a
native dark theme. Now if only Github would release one!
------
pricees
I recently switched to DDG after giving it a shot 2 years ago and finding it
wanting.
Good, bad, or indifferent, I land on the same 5-10 platforms (or did Google
only promote those platforms??) for 95% of my searches. This makes
DuckDuckGo's !bang commands more efficient than a Google search.
Google wins for completely agnostic default searches and rich map
functionality. For everything else, I am very satisfied with DDG.
------
elagost
Most people, I believe, could be served just fine by most "Free" alternatives.
Many people, I believe, wouldn't notice if you replaced 1) their desktop OS
with GNU/Linux, 2) their browser with Firefox, 3) their search engine with
DuckDuckGo, 4) MS office with LibreOffice or FreeOffice, and 5) their various
smartphone apps and social media services with webapps and/or Free
alternatives.
How is this surprising? As long as it "just works" most people are going to be
fine and won't really notice a difference.
I !g occasionally in DDG (which I've been using full time for over 4 years)
but have found that Google's results aren't better, just different.
------
pnako
It's not. I'm not a big fan of Google the company, but Google the search
engine finds what I'm looking for.
If I type "the two magicians from TV" in Google, I get what I'm looking for
(Penn and Teller). It's way down the list in DDG.
I suspect DDG is a glorified regex, whereas Google is able to infer
connections and figure out what I meant.
------
bprasanna
Switched to DDG 3 years back! Only to check if Google lists anything
different, checked it rarely. DDG is very GOOD imho. Since, you see organic
results mostly based on the ranking rather than preference to mobile sites,
AMP & advertisers, it feels refreshing and good.
------
metastart
I care about true privacy and transparency...so I use the Epic Privacy Browser
and their ad-free and transparent EpicSearch.in.
The claim in the blog post and by DuckDuckGo "They do not collect or share
personal information" can not be true depending on how you define personal
information since search ads are localized on DuckDuckGo. Incidentally,
DuckDuckGo refuses to disclose what data they send to Bing/Yahoo to retrieve
search ads (forget about open source, they're not even transparent). This
claim is further in question as their search ads link directly to Yahoo/Bing
so they direct your IP and personal information directly to them -- while one
can see those links while hovering on the links, it's not plainly disclosed
(especially for non-technical users). Fundamentally their business is built on
sending your personal information to Bing.
The results in EpicSearch aren't as good as Bing/Yahoo/DuckDuckGo nor as
Google...but they are quite close to any intuitive idea of being private and
are as good or better at times at least 80% of the time...so from there I'll
click on to Bing or Google if I need more results.
------
newscracker
If we are comparing anecdotes, like in this article, DDG is still not good
enough for me for certain kinds of queries. My default search engine is DDG,
but even today I had to switch to startpage (!s) for some searches. IIRC,
these were just some searches related to some themes and features of Ghost
(the publishing platform), Hugo (static site generator), etc. In my daily use,
I still rely on startpage, and the next level, which is Google (!g), to get to
what I need.
Forget about instant answers and similar things. DDG’s index of the web is not
as vast as Google’s...or maybe it is but it’s unable to figure out relevance
as well as Google does.
I still recommend DDG to people and tell them about a few bang commands. But
as of today, DDG is not something I can totally rely on within the scope of
its search results.
The new Edge browser from Microsoft uses Bing as the default search engine. It
works better than DDG for several cases (for me), but whenever it doesn’t, I
miss the bang commands that make the act of performing the same search on
another engine so quick and easy.
------
alex_young
I switched for a month and went back to Google.
DDG is about 95% there for me, but that missing 5% is the crucial on point
results for technical questions I rely on.
In these cases DDG point me at useful stuff, but not as useful as Google, and
that edge costs time spent traversing and sorting information.
I’m happy there is a good competition here and I’ll try again, but for now I’m
happy with Google results even with the ads.
------
mcyukon
I've been using DDG for about the last 2 years. The only thing that throws me
for a loop once in awhile is that some local businesses only have their open
hours entered with Google. Searching for that business in DDG will show their
address but not their open hours. Their hours are also not listed on facebook,
Yelp, or TripAdvisor. Where as on Google, it's right there in their little
knowledge panel on the right.
A business where this is happening: Pho 5 Star Vietnamese Cuisine - Whitehorse
Yukon
Other than that, most of the time DDG gets me better results than Google. I
work in the trades and look up a lot of tools/tool reviews and google results
are a dumpster fire of bad results full of these odd adsites that all look
similar, have obvious generated URLs, and clone amazon descriptions and
reviews. They are also ranked high on page 1 of Googles search results, and
the trust worthy sites are getting pushed down or even to the next page.
------
yingw787
I switched from Chrome/Google to Firefox/DDG three months ago, as part of a
larger switch from macOS to laptop Ubuntu. There are things I don't like about
DDG. DDG continually offers to play YouTube videos in its own window due to
privacy concerns, and it's not clear to me when it redirects and when it
offers its own window. Some searches don't work well; for example, "weather
22203" returns weather for Arlington, TX instead of Arlington, VA in the DDG
modal, and for things like precipitation I still need to g! the query.
These minor concerns are all peanuts compared to the benefits though. I've
found I'm very much a "live free or die" kind of guy, and I like how both
Firefox and DDG care about the user. I also like how they work well without
too much configuration out of the box :P
------
scarecrowbob
I moved away from Chrome and Google about 6 months ago.
There are two places where I find DDG to be better:
\- when I know specifically what page/site I am looking for, but don't know
the address
\- when I am looking for results that are heavily monetized (like, say, which
pedal steel guitar amp might be suited to my project)
I still find myself using g!, especially when the first couple of results for,
say, a cryptic log message or esoteric programming term aren't giving me what
I want.
If I know it's a hard to search term, or a specific image result, I will just
default to g!
But even if, say, 60% of the time I'm using g!, I still feel better because I
feel like DDG is a less "creepy" system and using it as a default at least
leaves some amount of a hole in one company's records of my activities.
(admittedly, that's a goofy and questionable reason).
------
tjakab
I switched over from Google to DDG back in 2013 and never looked back. I use
it heavily on a day to day basis ranging from obscure java error messages for
my job to just general searches and once in a great while I have to throw a !g
in front of the search, but that's really it.
------
mneubrand
I switched a few month back and it's still painful for me. Plain search
results are OK but Google is so much better with deep integrations.
Some examples:
\- I google a sports team, it shows me most recent results
\- I google a flight number, it shows me flight status
\- I google.g. nyse djia, it shows me the current stock value
Unlike the author of this post I very much miss these. Now this means having
to click through and find this info on flightaware, ESPN, some finance page,
etc. instead of just immediately getting what I want
------
roryokane
I switched to DuckDuckGo not for privacy, though that is nice, but to get away
from a horrid misfeature Google introduced a year or so ago that moves links
out from under my cursor right as I try to click on them. Specifically, it's
Google's "People also search for" links.
Those links used to appear as just another box in the search results. But then
Google made them appear when you click a search result and then navigate Back
to the search results page. When I go back, usually I am planning to click on
the search result below the one I had just clicked on. But right as I move my
mouse to where the next search result was and click, a box expands under the
link I had just visited with suggested searches. Whenever that box appears, I
always end up clicking one of the suggested search links instead of the search
result I was aiming for.
Google's testers probably don't notice the problem because they are slow to
acquire targets with the mouse. They probably click on the Back button with
their mouse instead of using a keyboard shortcut like I do. But I'm sticking
with DuckDuckGo, because it doesn't ever shift the search results around on
the page while I'm looking at it.
------
guerrilla
Funny you should ask. This morning I was apparently talking in my sleep,
angrily saying "Don't delete my fucking search terms!" I've been using DDG for
about 5 years but I feel it's actually been getting worse in that it more
often randomly deletes terms when whatever I'm searching for is too specific
for it's heuristic. On the other hand, Google does the exact same thing.
------
madoublet
I use DDG, but do not currently recommend it to others. I think you still have
to be cautious about the results it surfaces b/c it doesn't have the same
anti-spam mechanisms in place that Google has. For instance, I recently
searched for holding mail for the USPS and the first result was a scam site
that looked pretty convincing. So, I like the idea of DDG but still do not
fully trust it.
------
greenimpala
Switched 6 months ago on all devices, I actually prefer the experience, I have
discovered a bunch of really interesting small independent websites and blogs
through it too (wasn't that the original idea of the internet!?).
Once or twice a week I need !g to search for a programming specific query.
There's still some improvement needed when searching for all the weird
characters we use in software.
------
Dkastro92
At the moment it's pretty good if you want to fact check something, for almost
everything else google is way better (especially for news).
~~~
mnd999
Agree, news search is the thing I go back to google most for.
------
giantrobot
I switched to DDG soon after they launched. I've been using search engines
since the days of WebCrawler and out of habit still search today like I did
back then. I don't do natural language queries, I search for keywords and want
to use logical operators to narrow down my search. I also usually know some
sites to search for things so I regularly limit searched with "site:...".
For most of the past decade Google's support for the way _I_ think about
searching has sucked. They got obsessed with tailoring results to users and
linking everything to their profiles. They also went nuts with natural
language search, filling results pages with bullshit, and letting paid
placement overtake meaningful search results.
For me this was all made worse because I don't stay logged into accounts and I
don't use GMail as my primary e-mail. When I need to log into account I do so
in a private browser window. I also use ad blockers and have for decades now.
This all adds together to make Google useless for me. I'm sure plenty of
people like their features but they don't do me any good.
It's aggravating to me because for a while in the 00s, before the DoubleClick
reverse buyout, Google's search was vastly superior to the competition. Where
all others were inundated with keyword spam and other early SEO bullshit
Google returned germane results for just about everything. Their search page
ads were even relevant because they were looking at _what I had searched for_
instead of some historical profile.
DDG is closest to what old Google search used to be. I don't want to ask
questions in an NLP search box most of the time. When I do I'll go to
WolframAlpha. I'm really interested in just a full text search of the web with
good result sorting. This is what old Google did fantastically and current DDG
does well enough for my needs.
------
lostgame
Very strange timing on what is unfortunately a horribly inaccurate title based
on my personal experience.
I tried swapping to DuckDuckGo yesterday on my iPhone as the primary search
tool and reverted unfortunately back to Google after only two hours.
It’s hard to define all of the reasons the ‘mobile’ experience is so
unbearable, but I’ll try:
1) No video or image results at the top of the page when that is most
relevant.
2) No IMDB/overviews for movies, music, books, etc.
3) I am used to one of the first results in my search consistently being
Wikipedia. This was the case about 1/3rd of the time vs. Google.
4) Results often appeared extremely out of order in terms of relevancy vs.
Google, with the actual relevant like often being on the second(!) page.
5) Personal taste, but super relevant - In terms of UI/UX, the interface feels
dated, actually harkening back to the days of AltaVista - I’m unfortunately
honest when I say I feel like I’m using something designed 10-15 years ago.
6) Autocomplete seemed to have significant issues, and, for some reason,
sometimes even taking several seconds to appear.
I couldn’t express my disappointment enough. I _really_ wanted to give up the
ghost, and just move on from Google - but I am so used to so many of the
apparently fantastic nuances of Google, I believe it will unfortunately take
4-5 years before I can even get past enough of these significant issues to
make it worth using.
On Desktop - the experience seems to be significantly better. I can’t even
point out enough reasons why it’s so poor on mobile, it could unfortunately
fill several blog posts and I don’t have time to point out the myriad of
issues and inconsistencies here at this time.
If there’s jobs available at DDG - I’d love to help, in all seriousness.
~~~
psweber
It's not going to be convenient to get off any Google product. If privacy and
escaping algorithm bubbles is important enough to you, DDG can probably be
"good enough".
~~~
lostgame
Unfortunately I need a search engine to be functional. The trade off privacy
is certainly not worth it, and the algorithms aren’t half as good, at least in
terms of search results. It’s a damn shame.
------
VikingCoder
It's Lent, so I just searched for "Fish Tacos" and clicked on Map. It showed
four places, none of which are anywhere near me. I click on Directions and it
takes me to Bing.
Do the same thing on Google, see a dozen places in my neighborhood, and I get
Google Maps navigation.
What do you get in your searches for Fish Tacos? Do you have a better
experience with DDG?
~~~
calderarrow
I'm a die-hard DDG fan, but for some things -- particularly mapping related
issues -- google maps is so superior. I append a !gm to my searches for stores
and it automatically opens in google maps.
~~~
ce4
Google Maps has a number of features that contribute to that:
* maps timeline (location recording)
* maps "local guides" status with
* Gamification for POI data enrichment
* Google Survey app with payouts per survey finished
------
weystrom
I find myself using !g more than I'd like to, even before I even look at DDG
results. I just don't seem to trust it with complex queries and go straight to
google. But it has gotten better, that's true.
Side effect - I started using built-in Firefox wikipedia and Stackoverflow
search way more, skipping DDG and Google altogether.
------
stiglitz
Anyone got a specific search term that gave poor results on ddg compared to
google or vice versa?
I see zero specific examples in the comments right now. For all I know, you
people are searching for “howbakecarrotsovengsgshd”. In my experience there’s
no difference in quality worth talking about between any of the popular search
engines.
------
tomxor
> Most of my searches relate to my job, which means that most of my searches
> are technical queries.
Recently I've found google infuriating for technical searches because it has
started automatically searching for "what it thinks you meant", which when
using technical terms or program parameters etc are always wrong.
------
TheRealPomax
It really isn't. It was great for a while but has become progressively less
useful and more nonsense filled in its results over the last 2 years to the
point where today I still have it set as default search engine, but for almost
everything immediately go "oh ffs" and research with !g added.
------
microcolonel
It used to be that Google would handle unstructured queries better for me, but
lately things I'm looking for are, without explanation, invisible, or demoted
to the fifth or sixth page.
For me at least, the average search result quality from DuckDuckGo for me is
better than Google.
I think there three main difficult scenarios remaining with DuckDuckGo:
1) If your query is very abstract, and you don't know what to call the thing
you're talking about, DuckDuckGo will less often be able to figure out what
you're talking about.
2) If your query is not in English, Chinese, or Russian (and probably a
handful of other languages which they/their vendors support well), it may have
a hard time making your query general enough to return results.
3) If you really care about local results, you may not be satisfied unless you
provide location information in the query, and maybe not even then.
------
bonsai80
I agree. I have switched and used to feel like the switch was failing when I
had to use Google for some things, but realized that's just fine. I also
occasionally use Wolfram Alpha for things too. Both there if needed, but
otherwise getting great results from a company that respects me.
------
thethethethe
I use DuckDuckGo as the primary browser on my phone so I don’t accidentally
search things on my corporate Google account and I can say the DDG is
demonstrably worse in many situations.
If you have no idea how to spell a complex word, you can type absolute
gibberish into Google and it will know what you meant. DDG will figure it out
sometimes but less frequently.
Google also has better answer cards than DDG. Try searching “Facebook revenue”
on DDG and Google. Google gives you the answer and DDG shows you nothing.
The notion that DDG is better than Google, which is only ever evangelized in
these HN threads, is delusional idealism. Sure, DDG has some nice features
(namely not being Google), but suggesting that it is better than Google and
that the billions of unwashed masses are wrong about Google is silly and kind
of elitist.
------
gerash
Can somebody explain why anyone should use DDG instead of Google when they are
both free and ad funded?
I just issued my last Google query (some Mac OS troubleshooting) and the
results were not even close. I understand that they try to differentiate by
claiming they don't store previous queries and are stateless and not
personalized in a sense which is a bug IMHO not a feature. Yet they sell it as
privacy.
If one doesn't like their search queries stored remotely the real private
solution is for the search engine to run locally which sounds technically
hard/infeasible or some differential privacy magic to obscure individual
queries (I'm not sure how exactly) but DDG doesn't seem to have any benefit
over Google in a meaningful way.
That said, extra competition is always good for consumers
------
wickerman
I use DDG as my main search engine - for most things it works just fine, when
I can't find what I'm looking for I go to google. I find it hilarious that the
image search function works a lot like Google used to in the past - I'm
constantly looking for reference when drawing and more often than not if you
type something innocuous like "man with hand in front of face" you'll end up
with a first page full of porn in DDG whereas it's all SFW in Google, even
with all restrictions off. Luckily DDG offers a nudity filter which works
pretty well - even if it still fails to catch the odd gore picture.
------
realradicalwash
i've been using DDG for a few years now. i generally like it a lot. however, i
have decided to stop using them for image search. their filters are just not
good enough.
two examples: I've searched for some kind of speedo (jammers?) and got to see
a really problematic image I thought of reporting to the police. and just
recently, i image searched 'martin from the simpsons', because I came across
his name and forgot which character that was. near the top of the results were
some really wtf images (now removed). I don't want to see that stuff - so if
anyone at DDG sees this: please up your image filters.
------
mdrachuk
I have ddg setup as default on my laptop, phone and iPad for over the year.
I’m using google fallback almost half of the time. In particular, non-English
queries and software development queries are way better in google.
------
TomVDB
I switched to DDG for my desktop, laptop and phone a few weeks ago.
I'm on the fence about switching back: I find myself using g! all the time to
get (better) Google results.
I want anything related to soccer (national competitions standings, live
results, match results, ...)? DDG doesn't have it.
Anything where I know up front that the result will be in some forum? DDG
almost never has it.
Some kind of local news event, whether recent or not? Don't count on DDG.
Typo correction is worse. Relevance of the result is worse. Contextual
understanding is close to non-existent.
Only for the most basic search operations, DDG is fine for me. Other than
that, it's g!.
I wish it were different.
~~~
dmode
Soccer is a great example. Searching "Chelsea" in Google vs DDG demonstrates
the differences between the two.
------
marssaxman
DuckDuckGo has certainly been good enough for my regular use for several years
now. Switching the search engine to DDG is part of my standard new-browser
setup, along with resetting the "new tab" content to blank and installing
uBlock Origin.
I may have had an easier switch because I never used a google account, and
thus never had to deal with personalized search results. I also never liked
the natural-language style of search query - too fuzzy - and have continued
using the same kind of keyword-based searches that worked when the web was
young.
------
astatine
I have DDG set up as the default search engine and it works quite well. I
would think that I don't need to use g! about 75% of the time. When the result
is from wikipedia or stack overflow or some similar popular site, DDG works
alright but seems to miss specialized blogs. So if I don't find the answer on
the mainstream sites I find myself doing g! more often.
75% is not bad at all and if you approach with that perspective then DDG works
just great but if you think you should never have to use Google, then please
wait - not sure how long.
------
almstimplmntd
A bit tangential but related: has anyone else noticed an increased frequency
in the desired result of a Google search being the first one on the second
page?
Particularly for things involving reviews or booking, I have noticed an uptick
in the (subjectively) “right” result being kept off page 1... it seems almost
like some post processing logic to favor specific sites/companies. The fact
that the “right” result in these instances is almost always the first result
makes me think the true Ranking function knows the result’s actual value.
------
topherPedersen
DuckDuckGo actually does a better job of indexing all of my blog posts than
Google does. I discovered this when attempting to use Google to search for one
of my blog posts using a domain specific query("site:myblog.com") and was
unable to find the post I was searching for. However, I was able to easily
find my blog post using the same query on DuckDuckGo. This made quite an
impression on me as it was the first chink in Google's armor that I've seen.
------
computerex
I have tried to do this a couple times and have always had to resort to
switching back to Google. As a software engineer I use Google heavily and do
dozens of searches a day. In my personal qualitative experience Google seems
to return better results for technical queries.
For day to day use I think DDG is more than sufficient however. I think DDG is
certainly usable even for my work related searches but it simply takes longer
to arrive to the answer in my experience.
------
Wheaties466
I've been using DDG on my one browser for the past 3 years and the amount of
things I have to search twice, once through DDG and then again in google is
absurd.
------
k_bx
What's interesting, for me, a Ukrainian guy, it became better than Google as a
default. Google ignores my settings that set to only Ukrainian and English
results and constantly throws Russian at me, be it Russian Wikipedia (horrible
place) or Russian version of MDN articles and similar things.
DuckDuckGo is "ok", and often times when you think "omg, results are shit,
Google would work here", Google shows same results.
------
habosa
I am really trying to use DDG more but I dunno, it's not very good in my
experience.
Specifically these use cases fail:
* When searching for local business / places.
* When searching for something I want to buy.
* The news index doesn't seem very real-time.
However it has some things I love:
* !twitter to search Twitter!
* Sometimes non-personalized results help me find something outside my bubble
------
Semaphor
DDG is great for anything that has many results. Obscure errors? They decide
to ignore half your query and show you pages of completely unrelated results.
Even when there is no result, I wouldn’t know with DDG. For normal searches I
never need !g, for obscure problems I always do because DDG (or maybe Bing? I
don’t know how the integration exactly works) for some arcane reason
deliberately breaks their own search.
------
mason55
I tried switching a bunch of times over the years but finally in the last six
months or so I've found DDG to be good enough to use full time.
I probably went three or four months without even using the "!g" command. I
actually just yesterday ran into some issues and had to use "!g" \- for some
reason DDG struggled with the concept of "fish shell" and kept bringing me
back results about seafood.
~~~
davegauer
Strange, my top three DDG results for 'fish shell' are for the friendly
interactive shell. Maybe you just have really good seafood around your area?
------
artursapek
How sad is it that this is the best way to make a substantial announcement on
Twitter. A pixelated image of text. Twitter should work on some less-
frequently-used tweet mode that allows for more characters for stuff like
this.
[https://twitter.com/searchliaison/status/1220768243318571008](https://twitter.com/searchliaison/status/1220768243318571008)
------
jccalhoun
I wish DDG all the best but for me, "good enough" isn't enough. I don't care
about tracking so that isn't a real incentive for me either. I use Bing for my
main search because they bribe me with points I can use to buy Amazon gift
cards. It regularly isn't good enough so I regularly end up at google.
I want more competition in search so I'm glad people use DDG but it isn't for
me yet
------
uk_programmer
The only thing that Google is significantly better at than google in location
based searches in the UK i.e. local businesses. DDG map search is wrong for me
about 50% of the time.
Everything else is pretty much the same as google or better in some cases
(google seems to de-rank certain things). The code snippets when just quickly
searching "How do I do <X> in <programming language L>" is quite nice.
------
JackMcMack
I love duckduckgo, but for some reason my home ip address (new-to-me but
fixed) seems to be banned on at least one server, and I have to flush my dns
cache often to be able to reach duckduckgo.com . I've tried reaching out to
[email protected] but only got a generic "thanks for the feedback response",
and I don't have twitter. Is anyone from duckduckgo reading this?
------
ara24
I have been using duckduckgo on all browsers, including mobiles, for 2-3 years
now. There are occasions when I don't get good results. But when I try the
same query on G, the results are equally useless. So, I have since stopped
using anything else.
Although, I should say, bing was equally good when I used it before
duckduckgo, until they added that horrendous news feed in the bottom.
------
vstuart
Non-Docker Local Installation of searX on Linux |
[https://persagen.com/2020/02/02/searx.html](https://persagen.com/2020/02/02/searx.html)
searX is a free metasearch engine with the aim of protecting the privacy of
its users.
* searX does not share users’ IP addresses or search history.
* Tracking cookies served by the search engines are blocked.
* searX queries do not appear in search engine webserver logs.
In addition to the general search, the engine also features tabs to search
within specific domains:
General | Files | Images | IT | Maps | Music | News | Science | Social Media |
Videos
Notably:
* Each search result is given as a direct link to the respective site,
rather than a tracked redirect link as used by Google.
* When available, these direct links are accompanied by “cached” and/or
“proxied” links that allow viewing results pages without
actually visiting the sites in question.
* The “cached” links point to saved versions of a page on archive.org, while
the “proxied” links allow viewing the current live page
via a searX-based web proxy.
Tip: I do a lot of technical searches (StackOverflow …) and in my preliminary
use of searX
I find that selecting “General” (only) as the Default Category (in
Preferences) gives the best results.
------
SirLotsaLocks
It really is, I've been using ddg for a few months now near exclusively. The
bangs, though I still haven't gotten particularly fluent in them, really help
sell it for people who aren't sure (like I was). Now like others in this
thread have said, for more obscure things like when im bug fixing I use google
but for most things ddg is sufficient.
------
crashbunny
Everyone is talking about the quality of results, but how much better is it in
terms of tracking and sharing data?
ATM I'm using quant.com, a french company bound by European privacy laws. It
has its own index and I rarely need to use google.
I have no idea who is better in terms of privacy but I'm preferring the french
company over the American duckduckgo atm.
------
rudolph9
It’s gotten better! I still use google for very obscure things but the vast
majority of my searches these days are duckduckgo
------
GoofballJones
Been using DDG now for over a year and I would say, for me, it's about 95%
accurate in finding what I want found. It's rare now that I go to Google to
search for anything.
DDG is the default search engine on Firefox and Safari for me. I no long use
Chrome (it's not even loaded on this computer) and rarely Google.com itself.
------
ufo
Does anyone know if there is a way to emulate DDG's bangs using Firefox search
engine keywords?
I tried forcing myself to use keywords but apparently they only work on the
address bar (and not on the search bar) and also only if you type them at the
start of the query. DDG bangs also work on any part of the query, including at
the end.
------
zszugyi
I've switched to Qwant a few months ago at home. Aside a few usability issues
(like hijacking the space button), the search results are fine both for random
searches and for programming-related ones (aka. SO, JavaDoc, cppreference
search). Their map search is not great, so had to switch back to google for
that.
------
SubiculumCode
I will give DDG in a similar try, but I am more like the HN crowd than the
average user....lots of searches for statistical and programming
functions/ideas that most people have never heard or think about :e.g. "model
selection among non-nested fractional polynomial mixed level models"
------
jug
I noticed the same. It wasn’t fit for my use a few years ago but I think the
user uptake has helped somehow, or inspired their devs. Now I feel like it’s
more about not being quite used to the results. It’s just a matter of
unlearning the old though, with Google’s overly strong echo chamber results.
------
jryb
I exclusively used DDG for the past couple of years but gave up on it
recently. I never kept track of how often I used the "!g" google fallback but
in the past year or so it started to be the overwhelming majority of searches,
even for simple things like the name of an organization.
------
mkchoi212
Feel like DuckDuckGo has been good enough for regular use for awhile. Search
results are decent and what seems like an absence of ads is great.
The only thing I miss from Google? The giant cards that show up with an answer
if I ask something like "How old is [Insert Celebrity Name Here]"
------
samatman
The main thing I still use g! for is "wolfram lite".
I just tried "3 watts * 4 hours" on Google, it gave me the answer in joules
(which, I think situationally watt-hours would be the better unit, but...) and
DDG gave me a top hit of a site that could do the conversion for me.
------
rykuno
DDG is fantastic and now my preference. I tried it a couple years ago and was
constantly second guessing their results.
To have come this far as to it now becoming my daily preference, the team has
come a long way and has instilled great confidence that they will continue to
improve the platform
------
calderarrow
Question for google search users on HN: Do y'all use adblockers? I noticed
less of a difference in my one-off searches after I had been using an ad
blocker for a while, so I wonder if using an adblocker would be a way for
people to transition away from Google.
------
nkingsy
DuckDuckGo is a for profit company. There are no guarantees it will not seek
more profits at a later date. See: Google.
That being said, competition that hurts Google’s bottom line would likely
result in better behavior.
Ddg has a long way to go to be an impactful competitor in the market, though.
------
vzidex
Agreed, I've switched my work computer to use it by default and the only place
I've noticed it falter is when searching domain-specific niche technical
information. Otherwise it works fine, though I still need to switch all my
personal computers to it.
------
rcarmo
I switched six months ago and never looked back. I will occasionally use other
engines deliberately (Google when I’m looking for more obscure things that
warrant wading through pages of ads and Bing for image searches), but it is
now my default on most devices.
------
ryanmcbride
I switched to DDG pretty much as soon as they were on the scene and it's been
awesome watching them grow. Several of my team members have switched to DDG
after watching me use it for so long too. I can't recall the last time I had
to !g.
------
stubish
I'd go further than damning with faint praise and say that it is _more than_
good enough for regular use.
Common wisdom is that it isn't as good as Google, but whenever my results are
bad and I fall back to a !g search, those results are also bad.
------
insulanian
The only thing I miss in DDG is number of results. I use it often to check for
the right way to compose a phrase. If there is a significant difference in
numbers between the two alternatives, it pretty much indicates what's the
right one.
------
tyteen4a03
The only reason I am not using DDG for everything is because location based
search simply suck. I live in Europe but all the search results default to US.
I wish I can tell DDG that they _can_ use my rough location for search
queries.
------
staticassertion
I've been using DDG for years. It's perfectly fine. What I've found is I don't
use general search engines much in general anyways - I use ddg macros like
!rust to search rust docs, or other common places I search.
------
ct0
Ive been using it for 4 years and rarely need to try google. Set it as your
default!
------
kjgkjhfkjf
If you ask a question at work, and the answer is in the first page of Google's
search results, then you risk being ridiculed.
Saying "I looked on DDG" will not help you in this case; it will likely make
the ridicule increase.
------
incanus77
Google search was an unfortunate period in my life between my otherwise great
search history bookends of AltaVista and DuckDuckGo. I think I’ve been on DDG
for probably 5-6 years now. Results are absolutely good enough.
------
woofie11
I've been using DDG forever. I do !g once in a long time, but not often. I
think the most common use case is Google's excellent calculator. DDG is buggy,
and when it works, just isn't as good.
------
LegitShady
I switched to ddg because google is acting politically and I no longer trust
them to act as responsible stewards of information and search.
But ddg isn't as good as google and just barely qualifies as good enough.
------
anonu
I don't know. Ddg is my default but I still !g most of my searches after not
getting what I need in the top 3 items. Beyond that I need to scroll and I'll
probably try a different query
------
Ardia
They should shorten the name - DuckDuckGo.com is too long to type out.
~~~
NoGravitas
Try "duck.com", or "ddg.gg".
------
jaggs
General day to day searches? DDG is great for me Niche or deep dive searches?
Still !g I'm afraid
Big plus is that DDG is getting better every month. Google seems to be getting
worse (ads, fluff etc).
------
smeeth
My primary work use of search is looking for academic papers. I understand its
a rarer use-case but DDG just isn't there yet unfortunately. Looking forward
to when they are!
------
ancymon
For query "malesia bus conections search" DDG gives me porn results (I have
safe search disabled). That doesn't make me thin it's "good enough".
------
Andrew_nenakhov
I'm on DDG on all my devices for more than a year. Tried to use Google
recently on a friend's computer, was shocked by horrible UI and lack of links.
Not OK,Google.
------
ibic
Similarly, ecosia is now my daily search engine with little search on Google
for comparison. It's good enough and (quoting Peppa) "it's for a good cause"
------
mjh2539
I tried using duckduckgo for a period of about two months.
It's great that it's not monetized through ads, but it's main function,
search, is not best in class.
I do not use duckduckgo anymore.
------
tonfreed
I've been using it for about 18 months now. I find myself barely using !g
anymore, and usually it's when I'm looking for something really specific.
------
phaedryx
I think what finally sold me was the bangs. For example I can search "Array
!mdn" and get right to the MDN docs and not worry about w3schools stuff.
------
eddhead
Switched to Bing a while ago and have stayed put. Never needed Google cos the
results are garbage nowadays.
DDG isn't there yet, but Bing reminds me of Google 5 years ago
------
ablekh
I'm wondering about why, unlike Google, DDG doesn't display the number of
results for a particular search query. It's quite frustrating.
------
boynamedsue
I've been wondering how much value a privacy-focused search engine has when
the links in its search results are full of privacy-invading trackers.
------
einpoklum
The author does not remove ads. That skews the comparison relative to my
experience.
Anyway - in my experience, DDG is good enough for most of my searches, but not
all.
------
urtrs
I exclusively use DuckDuckGo mostly because google results got worse. What
worries me though is that I get different results when I browse with tor.
------
Pmop
It'd be awesome if they had an mirror that starts with "go", so we can reuse
muscle memory and browser's url autocomplete.
------
syphilis2
I'd really like to see people post screenshots comparing Google and DDG
results for cases where they consider one better than the other.
------
nice_byte
this is most likely not true. i keep trying ddg every now and then - last
attempt was ~ 6 months ago - and every time i have to return to google search
with renewed appreciation. i have no idea why it's so bad - i think my queries
should be very easy because most of the time i google referential material
(e.g. information on a widely used api) and not something obscure.
------
thsealienbstrds
It has been for a while. I occasionally need to do !g when I'm searching for
obscure errors, but it doesn't happen often.
------
kuon
I have been using DDG for years and did not know the !g I copy paste search
often when DDG results are lacking, I feel so stupid.
------
k_bx
What I don't get is why DDG has no "google it" button. I mean, typing !g is
not convenient, esp on mobile.
------
zeta0x10
For people complaining about worse local results:
You can also use the `site:` argument on TLDs. E.g.
"kino dresden site:.de"
If you can guess the TLD obviously.
------
rognjen
The article is about how the results are worse but the author doesn't like the
way things are shown on Google.
------
bgrohman
I’ve been using DuckDuckGo for years now. It’s great. I probably use the !g
fallback to Google a few times a year.
------
unixsheikh
I think I switched to Duckduckgo about 3 years ago and I have not done any
searching on Google since then (with a very few exceptions just to compare).
I have been very happy with the results Duckduckgo provides.
The only exception, which is something I find really annoying, is when you
want to limit the search to something specific using quotes and it ignores the
quotes and provides results that are completely useless.
Startpage.com respects the quotes.
------
kaonashi
I still end up reverting back to google a lot, especially for more natural
language question-type searches.
------
rovr138
My only issue is with some of the operators. Sometimes they break the results
in really weird ways.
------
parski
Startpage is falling apart. DuckDuckGo is good enough by virtue of being the
only option.
------
patricklovesoj
Switched to the duck 3 months ago. Don't really feel any pain really.
------
mindfulgeek
I switched over to DDG + brave about 6 months ago. Haven’t looked back.
------
bluntfang
i just recently switched to DDG as my primary search. It's not as good as
google, especially when it comes to software engineering documentation and
maps, but everything else is fine.
------
leed25d
Of the google bangs, I find myself using !gm (google maps) the most.
------
encoderer
I tried it when I switched to FireFox.
Switched back after 30 days. Still in Firefox.
------
MichaelMoser123
recently i found myself switching to yandex.ru when i can't find it on google
- and it worked. I guess it's better not to be too fixed on any single search
engine;
------
Bombthecat
Sooo, when do you guys think Google will pull the plug from ddg?
~~~
Kiro
You mean Bing?
------
paul7986
Would any other DDG users like to see
\- DDG Mail service
\- DDG News.. i still use Google News begrudgingly
\- a DDG Video site.. Youtube replacement (not easy to do with Youtube having
so much content)
Personally, I'd drop all Google services if such were available. Maybe others
would too?
------
sedatk
No, it's not. I've tried DuckDuckGo countless times, it only works for common
search keywords. For the rest it fails spectacularly. I'm tired of typing the
same keywords with !g in front of them.
------
svnpenn
I would like to take any chance I can to avoid Google products, but I dont
agree with this.
DuckDuckGo is using the infamous "More Results", essentially infinite scroll.
Until that changes Im not using DuckDuckGo.
~~~
burkaman
You can turn that off in the settings:
[https://duckduckgo.com/settings](https://duckduckgo.com/settings)
~~~
svnpenn
No you cant. You can turn off auto loading, but you cant set it so that
results are paginated.
~~~
CmdrKrool
This is true. Unfortunately DDG is flatly not interested in offering paginated
results, if this 2 year old post by the staff member 'moollaza' on Reddit
still applies.
[https://old.reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/comments/757gde/how_to_m...](https://old.reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/comments/757gde/how_to_make_search_result_paginate/)
My post there as 'the_minion_in_red' details how turning off "Auto-Load" works
inconsistently depending on how you scroll, anyway - a behaviour which I see
is still present and incorrect today.
And the 'lite' and 'html' views I suggest for the benefit of another poster, I
don't much like because they're doing something to make the address bar URL
not change so I can't easily bookmark a search.
------
drivingmenuts
So, DDG is good enough - but, is it better than Google?
------
jefurii
> DuckDuckGo is good enough for regular use
This is news to people?
------
tylerburnam
No, it's not
Edit: this is coming from someone who wishes it was
------
stuaxo
I am a regular user.
Is there a way to report bad search results ?
------
tus88
Was it not yesterday or the day before?
------
bobbylarrybobby
To people who use DuckDuckGo: how do you deal with its inability to answer
simple queries with factual answers? Things like “distance from Los Angeles to
New York”, “Joe Biden age”, “knives out cast”, “capital of South Africa”, etc.
The time it takes to click a result on DuckDuckGo and navigate to the answer
is so much longer than just getting the answer at the top of the results page,
as google (and even bing) provide. This is the main reason I can’t use
DuckDuckGo, as much as I’d like to
~~~
Normal_gaussian
Either it appears as part of the first result or one of the top results have
it. This is the case for all of your queries, and the result to select is
obvious - normally wikipedia or imdb.
This is arguably harder (+1 click and page load).
However for capital of south africa this is arguably more correct. My google
test shows no distinction between the capitals, whereas the wiki page does.
Of course the wiki page is accessible on google as well.
I'm wary of cases when these facts are incorrect. Google declares them while
trying to hide the source. This was very important recently when a friend
googled for caucus winners and recieved an incorrect fact at the top of
Google, something that would have rang alarm bells when seen on its candidate
affiliated source page
~~~
kube-system
You don't need the extra click and page load. Try these:
"joe biden !w"
"Los Angeles to New York !wa"
"knives out !w"
"south africa !w"
"ddg bangs !hn"
------
objektif
In the last couple of months my experience With DDG has been very good. I
consistently got better results than Google.
------
kylebenzle
Same, DDG works better for me.
------
amelius
According to which benchmark?
------
sandes
Engine search global market share:
Google 92.54%
so, who cares?
------
osehgol
I switched after Google's redesign too, this time it's good enough for good.
~~~
bramjans
Indeed, been using DDG for a couple of years now, and since Google's redesign
I've been using a lot less "!g".
------
hestefisk
If you’re in US yes.
------
babypistol
I have used DuckDuckGo a couple of years back, but, after some more
consideration switched back to Google. Apart from privacy I never really liked
the direction DuckDuckGo was going in (more below). Just recently I decided to
search for an alternative search engine once again.
Things I want to consider are:
1\. _Reasonable privacy_ \- I don't want the search engine to take super
invasive steps to track me (but still keep in mind that I need to send my
queries to someone, so there's really no expectation of full privacy)
2\. _No personalization_ \- I want to be sure that only obvious parameters
affect the ranking of search results (e.g. manual language or location
selection, manual time selection, ...). Want to avoid personalization and a
search bubble at all cost.
3\. _No results processing_ \- I want links to original sources, not processed
or aggregated information with little or no references to sources.
4\. _Independence_ \- I'd like to support a search engine that can operate as
independently as possible. A search engine with it's own crawler seem far more
resilient to external influence than a meta or proxying search engine.
Google falls short on 1, 2 and 3. But holds up very well on 4.
With Bing or Yandex I don't have much experience, but expect something
similar.
DuckDuckGo heavily advertises 1. I guess 2 follows from it but didn't find it
mentioned as an explicit goal. On 3 and 4 it falls short. If I remember
correctly DuckDuckGo was one of the first to offer processed results (Instant
answers). I'm not sure about the situation now, but I believe it started of as
a meta search engine and proxied most searches to Yahoo, Bing or Yandex.
[https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-
pages/results/so...](https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-
pages/results/sources/) still lists Bing prominently.
Startpage.com seems to get me 1 and 3. But 2 is questionable since the results
are still tailored by Google (not to me personally, but it's still not clear
what factors into ranking). And 4 obviously doesn't apply.
To find a better alternative I started looking for search engines with
independent web crawlers. So far I found mojeek.com, beta.cliqz.com and
qwant.com. mojeek.com looks good on 1,2,3,4 but results aren't quite good
enough. With Cliqz I'm not sure about personalization, but otherwise looks
good.
I finally settled on Qwant.com for now. It promises privacy and no
personalization explicitly. Has an independent crawler. Sometimes it tries to
provide a processed answer card, but so far I managed to ignore that. Results
are surprisingly good.
------
jordache
no it was garbage for my use case of searching programming questions, or
searching a business (where it links me to open street map, instead of google
maps).
------
valleyjo
So is bing
------
qwerty456127
Indeed.
------
dredmorbius
DDG crossed this threshold for me years ago, and I've been using it
consistently since 2013. (With fairly frequent statements to that effect on
HN.)
For much of that time the principle justifications were 1) It Is Not Google,
2) results are roughly comparable, and 3) an improved privacy impact.
Over the past year or two, the rationale's shifted: results _and most
especially experience_ are markedly better.
Google's polluting the SERP with advertising, bringing to mind the environment
_into which Google first emerged in the late 1990s_ , with what many at the
time considered a mature search-engine environment, is most especially
notable.
My use of console browsers and commandline queries ( _not_ a typical use case,
though extraordinarily convenient) is another huge factor.
_Google is now utterly unusable in console-mode browsers._
By contrast, the default DDG site _works_ , and works well, and the "lite"
site is ... amazeballs:
[https://duckduckgo.com/lite](https://duckduckgo.com/lite)
As a Bash/bourne shell function:
ddg ()
{
/usr/bin/w3m "https://duckduckgo.com/lite?q=$*&kd=-1"
}
As of a few weeks ago, DDG added "region" and "time" selectors to the lite
results page, matching the capabilities recently added to the default DDG
site. The fact that "lite" not only works but is actively maintained speaks
volumes.
The search box is one tab away (it's 12 in Google).
_Search results are directly clickable._ I don't know what new idiocy has
infected Google, but when I view a Google results page in, say, w3m, _I cannot
click the links_ :
[http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&source=hp&b...](http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=why+is+duckduckgo+so+much+better+than+google%3F&btnG=Google+Search&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAXmKtKTsHJSquuU_BZU0CxEcmhMULfqFg&gbv=1)
(This is beyond the "the links are redirected for tracking", not the case on
DDG with a URL parameter, but _Google has broken its own search links_.)
I can only assume Google are telling advanced users that they are no longer of
interest to the firm.
In a graphical browser, results are crammed with ads and filler, annoying,
hard to parse, and quite frequently _just not very good_.
There are occasional exceptions:
1\. For date-ranged search, Google (and specifically desktop) is the only
option.
2\. Some older content isn't accessible on DDG. Generally this is pre-2005 /
pre-2000 content.
3\. Some obscure content only appears on Google, though to a _vastly_ lesser
extent than was true only a few years ago.
Also, again, DDG's bang searches are hugely useful, with at least a couple
dozen in frequent use by me.
The broader picture, though, is that _Web search seems generally less useful
than it was 5-10 years ago._
That seems to be a mix of far more crap online, as well as black-hat SEO
winning over Web search companies (death penalties really ought to be a
thing), _and_ far more "traditional" content (books, scientific articles,
other published sources) now being accessible online.
I'll hit up Wikipedia, search for references, and follow those, or go to
Worldcat and run a subject search, _then read books, magazines, or articles
directly_ (through Library Genesis or Sci-Hub), rather than waste my time on
Web glurge.
Yes, there are still some good voices out there, but between crap content,
crap Web UI/UX, and general web annoyances, it's become a net negative.
AdTech and Surveillance Capitalism destroy everything.
------
forkexec
I've been been using DDG since 2012. No significant complaints. And !bangs
(shortcuts to search on other sites) are awesome.
One major annoyance for me is the keyboard shortcuts don't work on iPad
external keyboards.
------
allovernow
I think this is more of a reflection on how far Google results have fallen.
But I really glad to see someone gaining at least some ground against Google
while at least claiming to be privacy focused.
------
iamaelephant
It's not
------
fiatjaf
You can't get direct links to images when using Google Image Search, but you
can when using DuckDuckGo Image Search. That should be enough for you to
switch.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
List of Unsolved Scientific Problems with Large Monetary Prizes - pancero
http://scienceprizes.org/
======
Jun8
No need to be hopeless about winning one of these! The "easiest" ones to
target, I think for the general HN crowd, will be the EFF Cooperative
Computing Awards, i.e. finding primes with 100 million and a billion digits.
Looking at the winning claim from 2009
([https://www.eff.org/awards/coop/primeclaim-43112609](https://www.eff.org/awards/coop/primeclaim-43112609)),
which was a Mersenne prime with 12M+ digits, I see that it was discovered
using an "Dell Optiplex 745 computer with an Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 CPU
running at 2.4 GHz" running for about 33 days. Netting the 100M prime should
be doable using, e.g. a couple hundred EC2 instances for a couple of weeks.
With current EC2 prices
([http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/](http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/)) ,
for $100k one can run a c4.8xlarge instance (36 cores) for 2244 days, so for a
comparable time for the 2009 award, you can run (2244/33)x36=2448 cores rather
than two. Assuming that's adequate to discover the 100M digit prime, that's a
net profit of $50k!
Since no body has done this there must be some significant flaws in the naive
analysis above. What are they? What is a rough estimate of how fast the
computational load would go up from 10M to 100M to 1B digit prime search?
~~~
ac29
I think you misread how the previous prime was found:
"4D. The Lucas-Lehmer test began on Sun Jul 20 12:33:46 2008 PDT and concluded
on Sat Aug 23 00:29:27 2008 PDT. That's a total of 33 1/2 days. The Dell
Optiplex was the only computer used to initially prove this candidate prime.
However, the computer was part of GIMPS' "PrimeNet" network of roughly 75,000
computers testing other Mersenne number candidates."
It didnt take one computer 33 days, it took 75,000 computers searching
simultaneously to find a prime.
edit: The next largest prime, at 17 million digits, took a further 5 years of
searching on a network that has over 100 TFLOP/s of compute power [1].
[1] [http://www.mersenne.org/primes/](http://www.mersenne.org/primes/)
~~~
throwaway86321
The choice of a Dell Optiplex business desktop PC for a month-long calculation
in 2008 is interesting for historical reasons.
A decade before that, Sun workstations that cost $30k each were used for long-
running engineering tests like chip verification, while an Optiplex is less
than 10% of that.
~~~
dekhn
Well, in 1998, I was running a dual-processor Dell Optiplex at 400MHz for
month-long simulations; it cost $5000 at the time. but yeah, most people
around me were buying $25k SGIs that had about half the oomph of my machine. I
think that was the year it became clear Intel was going to get enough floating
point and cache to be competitive with the RISC UNIX systems.
------
tmuir
The commercial value of the solutions to some of these problems are multiple
orders of magnitude higher than the prize money.
In that sense, the prize money isn't really much incentive to develop a
Tricorder, or a process to remove greenhouse gases.
~~~
nostalgiac
If the prize was higher then the cost of the solution - then there would
likely be no prize (and they would simply spend the money on developing that
solution).
The prize money shouldn't be the incentive for these solutions, more of a by-
product.
------
reasonattlm
The list is missing the Mprize for mouse longevity, which is still out there,
and the Palo Alto Prize for rejuvenation treatments in mammals. Possibly
others as well.
------
gpickett00
They should make it so that people can donate to the prize of their choice to
increase the size of the prize. Shouldn't we try to drive the prize $ up in
order to create more of an incentive to solve each of these challenges?
~~~
plesiv
Having non-profit collecting crowd-funds for the solutions to the important
scientific problems would be great. But I would imagine that for those most
capable of solving these problems prizes are _not essential_ , while grants
that would allow them to conduct the research in the first place _are_.
So... Create capable non-profit with goal of crowd-funding important research.
~~~
derefr
The key innovation would be an investor (venture capitalist?) willing to give
out grants themselves, in return for a share of the resulting X-prizes. Then
funding the prizes would, through Market Magic™, produce grants.
------
sdenton4
Luckily, KSP1.0 recently came out to help us with prototyping for the Lunar
XPrize.
~~~
gizmo686
I wouldn't call the Lunar XPrize an unsolved problem. We have already landed
manned vessels on the moon, and have landed and operated rovers on other
celestial bodies. The issue is more that we do not care enough to land a rover
on the moon.
Of course, if you interpret the challenge as doing it withing a budget of
$20,000,000, then it becomes a much more interesting challenge.
~~~
sdenton4
Hmmmmmmm..... I wonder what you could get away with if you're ok with having a
stupidly low-mass rover, say with the mass of a go-pro.
------
gedrap
>>> Create free Android apps to spread reading, writing, and arithmetic
skills, and prove their effectiveness over an 18-month period in African pilot
communities.
5 prizes of $1M and a grand prize of $10M. That seems quite viable for the HN
crowd. However, this is rather subjective compared to other problems. Many
other problems are more like true/false.
Still, that's quite interesting and an app, designed for learning, with heavy
optimizations on UX seems like a very commercially viable product. Given you
have to do the skills of enterprise sales :)
~~~
ximeng
"Registration closed" on that website
------
ggchappell
This is an interesting mix.
> Google Lunar XPRIZE $20,000,000 Successfully launch, land, and operate a
> rover on the lunar surface.
That almost reads like a joke. It's going to take an awful lot more than
$20,000,000 to accomplish that. The prize money is nearly irrelevant.
> ALS Treatment Prize $1,000,000 Develop a therapy that extends the life of
> ALS mice by 25%.
I surprised this one hasn't been taken yet.
~~~
ohitsdom
The Google Lunar XPRIZE already has a bunch of teams making decent progress.
The $30 million[0] certainly won't fund the whole trip, but it seems to be a
big enough supplement that it is encouraging institutions to give it a serious
effort.
That being said, I would love to see the competition and effort if the prize
was increased by a factor of at least 25.
[0] [http://lunar.xprize.org/](http://lunar.xprize.org/)
------
piptastic
I looked through 2 of these that looked the most interesting to me, and the
registration is closed.
Need a way to filter the list to things that you can still register to enter.
------
wfunction
Or just build a photo sharing app called Instagram, worth $1 billion.
~~~
guelo
Yea but out of hundreds of photo sharing apps only one was worth $1 billion.
~~~
bnegreve
Well, the odds of finding a prime number with 1,000,000,000 digts are lower by
far and you only get $250,000
------
zerooneinfinity
I'm surprised SpaceX doesn't go for the Lunar prize.
~~~
greglindahl
The current plan [1] is for several teams to pool their money and launch
together on a SpaceX rocket. Once they arrive together on the lunar surface,
then they'll race to see who wins the prize. SpaceX will be paid their normal
launch fee.
[1] [http://lunar.xprize.org/press-release/two-google-lunar-
xpriz...](http://lunar.xprize.org/press-release/two-google-lunar-xprize-teams-
announce-rideshare-partnership-mission-moon-2016)
------
lqdc13
The P vs NP one looks undoable compared to the other ones.
~~~
mherrmann
Why?
~~~
dtparr
I'd explain, but it'd be exponentially long and boring. Or maybe not. I can
never be sure.
~~~
yen223
Do let us know when you find the answer. We can check it quickly.
------
yitchelle
1\. Get a infinite number of monkeys into a room
2\. Give it one of these problems.
3\. Profit!, of course minus the cost of the bananas.
~~~
dagw
You forgot step 2.5. Find the scrap of paper with the correct proof on it
among the infinite scraps of paper without the correct proof on it.
~~~
MikeTV
No need -- just submit them all!
~~~
dagw
Submit 'em all. Let peer review sort 'em out.
------
kaeluka
Any low-hanging fruits? ;)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ASK HN: All the VC Blogs that I read, in one place. Thoughts? - shafqat
http://vcblogs.newscred.com/
======
shafqat
Is this useful? For those of you who follow these blogs, how do you do it?
I just got tired of RSS readers. While a lot of news comes to me via twitter,
this seems to work well for me.
EDIT: I'm the cofounder of NewsCred and we're experimenting with our consumer
site. So looking for feedback in general as well.
~~~
daveying99
Hey Shafqat, I'm writing an academic paper on the future of news. Would love
to interview you for it and get your opinion and outlook. We've already
interviewed people from Reuters/Dowjones, iReport, etc. Contact me if you're
interested david.haddad at gmail
~~~
shafqat
Hey there - would love to help. I've been doing a bunch of these interviews
recently, and it's really interesting and relevant to our core business
(<http://platform.newscred.com>).
My email address is in my profile.
------
nfnaaron
It's great as far as it goes.
Would be better if the sum were greater than the parts, i.e. more than a
static list of interesting site/blogs. There's the obvious "if you liked that,
here's something else you might like." Set the WayCool to 11 and see what you
come up with.
But it's a good start, done well.
~~~
shafqat
Thanks for the feedback - yes, that is exactly what I would like to see as the
product evolve. Suggesting other sources/feeds as you mention.
But also proposing related topics that may interest you etc. There is already
a bit of cool functionality if you click on one of the blog headers - like
this page:
[http://vcblogs.newscred.com/feed?url=http//feeds.feedburner....](http://vcblogs.newscred.com/feed?url=http//feeds.feedburner.com/AVc)
------
shafqat
As a tangential question, how else can this sort of information (i.e. "blogs I
read" be shared).
Not talking about twitter or delicious - looking for a platform to share a
curated set of feeds in a nice, presentable style. A "shareable feedly" would
be cool, but I don't think it's possible is it?
~~~
olalonde
I use Netvibes.com which lets you make a public page with RSS feeds you read.
Mine is <http://www.netvibes.com/webdeveloper> although it's pretty old..
------
vijayr
<http://venture-capital.alltop.com/>
~~~
shafqat
Thanks for highlighting this - I actually used this for a while. But I problem
was that there was simply too much information, with a lot _ABOUT_ venture
capital and startups.
I wanted information and blog posts _BY_ venture capitalists.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What Stage Is My Business At? - onlyrealcuzzo
Morning HN,<p>I've done some market research by asking ~30 developer/manager friends to take a survey. I found that there's definitely a demand for my product. I've built an MVP. I'm currently showing it to prospective business clients and have received very little negative feedback. I'm trying to learn if they'd want to sign up for the service, and how the decision would be made whether to sign up or not.<p>So, in a sense, I think I've discovered who my customers are, validated them, I'm figuring out the distribution, and I have an MVP -- I think (I'm an engineer, just learning the business side of things).<p>I technically don't /need/ any other employees at the moment. But I would like to bring on a co-founder for several reasons. I'm a little reluctant to split the business 50-50 with someone, though. I've put in 4 months of development and $60k. I do have four friends that want to be a first hire, and at least one interested in being a co-founder, but the two I really want as a co-founder aren't interested in quitting their job and working for no pay.<p>I'm also curious what type of funding, if any, I should seek. After signing my first 3 clients, which it seems like will happen by the end of the month, I'll be profitable. I'm in the early stages of developing a business model with a friend of mine who is a consultant for BlackStone, and it seems like there is a clear path to $54M in revenue by 2022 (I realize this is still very hypothetical).<p>It seems kind of silly to go through an accelerator at this stage. Although, I do really need and want the help of more experienced business people. My product is great -- that's validated -- but it's still not going to sell itself.<p>Anyway, if you managed to read all that, I'd really appreciate some feedback. I really only have one business friend, I've been bugging him a lot, and he's already busy AF, so I feel bad to keep reaching out to him.<p>Thanks!
======
quuquuquu
If you have a few dozen people who want to pay you what, a total of $2,000 a
month, you are already better than 99% of businesses.
Paul Graham had 50 customers for Viaweb like this, and eventually scaled it to
200 before being acquired.
If you only have 3 people who are interested and they only want to pay maybe
$10 a month, then you need to scale up your outreach and get in front of more
potential users
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Hey, thanks!
It's closer to $2k a month than $10 a month.
I'm 3 for 3 with companies I've propositioned. So I think if I had the
connections to reach dozens of software companies, it's not unreasonable that
I might have a dozen or so companies willing to sign up. I don't have those
contacts, though. So I'm not there yet. I'm a 3.
I still don't know what this means. Should I be thinking about an accelerator?
Should I be thinking about raising a lot of money? Should I be thinking about
hiring? Or am I still really early? Should my focus still be on talking to
software companies and figuring out the distribution?
~~~
quuquuquu
Sorry for the late reply!
I'm going to continue to think outloud here for you, just my thoughts :)
I think if the addressable market is only 54mm then an accelerator might not
be too interested. You would also need a cofounder in their mind, someone who
does the business stuff I guess, and success is not easily screenable there.
It sounds like your product is quite niche and requires high touch enterprise
sales? If your product is in maintenance mode only, then you could probably
handle this yourself, even without many connections.
If you have a multi billion dollar market to <<disrupt>> and a small team of
people to do demos, contracts, support, etc, then you are a strong candidate
for an accelerator I think, since in their mind it's all about growing or
dying.
But if not, then you can run a lifestyle business with a few dozen customers
:)
I currently am working on a b2c product and I'm doing everything myself after
most investors panned the idea, despite decent user count :)
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Interesting. I'd love to learn more about your company and the journey! It
sounds like you've already been where I am now [=
Also, I'm unfamiliar with the term addressable market, but after Googling, it
sounds like the TAM is closer to $500M annually (maybe). This is a new product
in a new market. So I don't know if the TAM would be whatever I capture. But,
given how fast somewhat similar products have grown, it seems like I would be
able to capture around 10-15% of the total market by 2022. The total market
being the number of software companies in the world, a somewhat easily
estimatable number, multiplied by the price of my service. I don't know if
that's how to calculate the TAM or not.
~~~
quuquuquu
Please drop me your contact info if you'd like :)
Yeah the more I hear now, I think you should network with whoever will give
you more solid advice from the Y Combinator network, or any of the other ones
out there.
Someone you trust can hopefully help you estimate the TAM, I think 10% capture
is a good number to target.
If it needs lots of enterprise sales and you need to grow quicker than your
competitors, you will need outside capital of say 100-300k for salaries and
etc to give it a shot!!
Good luck :) You are definitely in a better place than people who only have an
idea, or an MVP with no sales!
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Right on. Yeah, I'd love to hear more. My email is yahn007 at gmail.
------
PaulHoule
Get somebody to sign up. Once you have some customers you have a much better
pitch to everybody (employees, possible founders, funders, etc.)
It is better to have "no co-founder" than a bad co-founder.
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Yeah, the last thing I want is a bad co-founder or a half-hearted one. I've
really been prioritizing getting my first customer. But I wasn't really ready
for that until this week. My hope is to have one (or all 3) signed up by the
end of September.
------
icedchai
What's your product do?
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Automated risk assessment for changes to software
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Linode Security Advisory - scub
https://blog.linode.com/2016/02/19/security-investigation-retrospective/
======
tptacek
_Update: also, read this comment_ right away.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11136948](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11136948)
I find this update very hard to follow. Can someone tell me if I'm misreading
it? I'm going to quote it twice, and then attempt to summarize:
_After examining the image from our July investigation, we discovered
software capable of generating TOTP codes if provided a TOTP key. We found
software implementing the decryption method we use to secure TOTP keys, along
with the secret key we use to encrypt them. We also found commands in the bash
history that successfully generated a one-time code. Though the credentials
found were unrelated to any of the unauthorized Linode Manager logins made in
December, the discovery of this information significantly changed the
seriousness of our investigation._
and then:
_The findings of our security partner’s investigation concluded there was no
evidence of abuse or misuse of Linode’s infrastructure that would have
resulted in the disclosure of customer credentials. Furthermore, the security
partner’s assessment of our infrastructure and applications did not yield a
vector that would have provided this level of access._
_Linode’s security team did discover a vulnerability in Lish’s SSH gateway
that potentially could have been used to obtain information discovered on
December 17, although we have no evidence to support this supposition. We
immediately fixed the vulnerability._
Here is my read of what this says; I'd like to know if I'm wrong.
"One of our customers got owned up in July, and gave us an attacker source
address within Linode. We pickled up the attacker's host. In December, we
examined the pickled host, and found secrets related to the way we store 2FA
credentials, indicating that our credentials database may have been
compromised. In conclusion: we have no idea how that could have happened."
Am I missing something else?
~~~
aqtrans
Yeah, they really gloss over the fact they have no idea how the TOTP secret
key was compromised, which worries me the most.
~~~
SomeCallMeTim
They changed the 2FA to use a microservice, so _whatever_ the vulnerability
was before, if the 2FA is now on an isolated server, that vulnerability
shouldn't have access to the new 2FA key.
~~~
KaleidoscopeFan
I think it's fairly important to note that they're NOT currently using the
microservice for the 2FA, and they're NOT using bcrypt right now.
The blog post states they're "working towards" these changes, they're not
currently in place. It's fairly unlikely that they're using the same secret
key as the one they found on the server, but it's fair to assume that they are
still using salted SHA-2 for your passwords and the same 2FA setup right now.
They likely won't roll out the major changes until they roll out the "new and
improved" Linode dashboard they're coming up with.
~~~
monster2control
The article didn't state that. The article stated they are rolling out soon.
The new dashboard will be an open source project. So you'll know when that
gets released. There is no link to the project yet so assume that part isn't
started yet. So the microservices should be released in a timely manner. Let's
hope with the new focus on transparency if there are any delays they will keep
us posted.
~~~
KaleidoscopeFan
Isn't that exactly what I said? o.O I said they will "likely" get rolled out
with the new dashboard, not that the article said they would lol. But, they
never stated when it would happen anyways, so "delays" aren't really a thing
when there's no deadlines.
------
AlbertoGP
The page's title "Security Investigation Retrospective" fits the content
better than the current HN's "Linode Security Advisory": it is about last
July's breach that caused January's password reset; what happened and what
they've done about it.
------
noir_lord
Not sure what to think about Linode anymore, on the one hand from a pure
reliability point of view they have been bullet proof, had a few issues during
the DDoS in December and I've always found their support to be good (the few
times I've used them in 7 years).
On the other hand they've had security issues fairly regularly and their
response to the DDoS was pretty poor.
That said if I was a cynic I'd say they probably have one of the best setups
for dealing with future attacks (old joke about never firing an employee who
made an expensive mistake because he'll never make that mistake again) and
_finally_ seem to be taking security seriously, for me the list of changes all
sound good (particulary open sourcing Linode Manager and tokenising CC's had
to reset a card because of them once before).
We are slowly moving a lot of stuff back to a DC up the road but we still have
some stuff with them.
~~~
odonnellryan
I feel DO's level of service is on-bar. I've gotten multiple discounts from DO
for "annoyances" I wasn't even annoyed by.
~~~
developer2
This is because DO is desperate to retain customers. I don't know if it's
still the case, but a year or so ago the CEO was personally handling customer
service, responding via email and adding credits to people's accounts. If the
CEO has that much time on his hands, to personally handle every customer
dissatisfaction, then the customer base must be quite small.
I think for me the largest red flag was DO not even having bandwidth
monitoring in place. The only reason there were no bandwidth limitations was
because they were not even physically tracking bandwidth usage. How do you
launch a hosting platform without something as basic as being able to monitor
bandwidth?
~~~
AdamGibbins
DO aren't small: [http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2015/05/01/digitalocean-
be...](http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2015/05/01/digitalocean-becomes-the-
second-largest-hosting-company-in-the-world.html)
------
ryanlol
>Linode’s security team did discover a vulnerability in Lish’s SSH gateway
that potentially could have been used to obtain information discovered on
December 17, although we have no evidence to support this supposition. We
immediately fixed the vulnerability.
Yeah, LiSH was exploited like 3 years ago...
Unless it's been completely redesigned it's probably still got heaps of
vulnerabilities, screen wasn't designed for untrusted input.
>CC Tokenization: Although our investigation yielded no evidence of credit
card information being accessed, we are taking advantage of our payment
processor’s tokenization feature to remove the risk associated with storing
credit card information.
Nobody thought about doing this when every customers card plaintext card info
was taken years ago?
Anyway, the entire blog post is bullshit. It completely fails to address their
previous security track record. A single hack isn't that big of a deal, but
this has happened to Linode countless of times.
------
thesimon
It seems like the post creates more questions than it answers, but it's great
that they are sort of transparent. I guess it's due to ongoing investigation.
But it is quite surprising that someone was able to acquire the key for the
token generation and they seem to have no explaination for it. And wow, they
only started tokenizing credit cards now? And SHA-2 for password hashes?
THB, after reading this post my confidence in them hasn't really increased. It
feel like: "We fucked up, but are not exactly sure why but will fix some
issues nevertheless".
~~~
msbarnett
> SHA-2 for password hashes
They're moving on from them, but they're going to leave SHA-2s sitting there
and wait _until_ everyone logs in to upgrade to bcrypt hashes at rest.
Not getting a super competent vibe off of these folks.
~~~
elbee
Waiting until login until you upgrade to bcrypt is a requirement is compotent
password storage. At this point in time all Linode should know is
SHA-2(password) and they can't use that to derive bcrypt(password).
The way upgrade should work is that the user provides their password, which is
verified with SHA-2 and then hashed with bcrypt and stored again.
In order to do this without people logging in Linode would have to bcrypt hash
the SHA-2 hashed passwords and then keep doing that for all password
validations.
~~~
msbarnett
> Waiting until login until you upgrade to bcrypt is a requirement is
> compotent password storage
It's not even remotely competent. This blog makes it clear they're not even
sure how their secret key was stolen. These hashes could be walking out their
backdoor as I type this. Keeping vulnerable hashes at rest is insane.
It would be far more competent to bcrypt the SHA-2s, so that at least when the
hashes wander out the backdoor they haven't really found, peoples passwords
aren't trivially attackable.
> In order to do this without people logging in Linode would have to bcrypt
> hash the SHA-2 hashed passwords and then keep doing that for all password
> validations.
No, they'd just have to replace Bcrypt(SHA-2(password)) with Bcrypt(password)
once the customer finally logs in.
It's an immediate net upgrade to the resistance of at-rest Hashes to brute
force attacks with zero downside.
~~~
elbee
That will work as a way to strengthen the hashes (a few other people pointed
that out as well).
My point was that if you have a system which can go straight from
SHA2(password) to bcrypt(password) then the system must be storing the
plaintext of the password, which would be very bad.
~~~
msbarnett
> My point was that if you have a system which can go straight from
> SHA2(password) to bcrypt(password) then the system must be storing the
> plaintext of the password, which would be very bad.
Yes, I understand that. It's just completely irrelevant to the question of
whether or not it's competent practice to store vulnerable hashes
indefinitely, awaiting customer log in.
Again, it is not a competent practice. Wrap vulnerable hashes in strong ones
immediately; they're a huge liability to leave sitting in your storage even
when you don't have evidence that there's a backdoor in your systems that you
cannot seem to find.
------
colinbartlett
Two things in their "What We’re Doing About it" section really surprised me
because they are things I would have expected a company of their size and
sophistication to have done long ago:
> we are taking advantage of our payment processor’s tokenization feature to
> remove the risk associated with storing credit card information
> we are hiring a senior-level security expert
------
TheSwordsman
Hey There,
I'm a PagerDuty employee and am the same individual who made this post on the
last HN thread:
* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845985](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845985)
Unfortunately, there are some facts in Linode's post that are not correct.
>On July 9 a customer notified us of unauthorized access into their Linode
account. The customer learned that an intruder had obtained access to their
account after receiving an email notification confirming a root password reset
for one of their Linodes. Our initial investigation showed the unauthorized
login was successful on the first attempt and resembled normal activity.
This is almost correct. Someone got in to our account on the first try. They
knew the password and a valid TOTP token. Although, Linode's email isn't what
notified is, it was our intrusion detection system.
>On July 12, in anticipation of law enforcement’s involvement, the customer
followed up with a preservation request for a Linode corresponding to an IP
address believed to be involved in the unauthorized access. We honored the
request and asked the customer to provide us with any additional evidence
(e.g., log files) that would support the Linode being the source of malicious
activity. Neither the customer nor law enforcement followed up and, because we
do not examine customer data without probable cause, we did not analyze the
preserved image.
This is partially correct. We informed Linode that we saw suspicious activity
within their network, and reached out to them to inform them. We provided any
and all logs we had. We also informed them that we passed the info on to law
enforcement, in case they wanted to proactively preserve the data. The knew we
had no further information, and as such didn't ask for anything additional.
>On the same day, the customer reported that the user whose account was
accessed had lost a mobile device several weeks earlier containing the 2FA
credentials required to access the account, and explained that the owner
attempted to remotely wipe the device some time later. In addition, this user
employed a weak password. In light of this information, and with no evidence
to support that the credentials were obtained from Linode, we did not
investigate further.
The story behind the mobile device is totally incorrect. The user did not lose
their device, the device had been restored (intentionally wiped) 9 months
prior to the compromise. The user got a new device, and never set up MFA on
their new phone after wiping the old one. The device was, and still is, in the
user's possession. The device has not been powered on in a long while.
The user who was compromised was no longer in possession of their MFA secret.
They deleted it, intentionally, with no backups existing.
If anyone here is going to be at Velocity 2016 in Santa Clara, or at
Monitorama PDX 2016, I'll be giving talks on how PagerDuty was compromised
back in July. This includes _full_ details of how this happened, including the
details of the mobile device referenced above. There are some details in my
talk that don't line up with the blog post provided by Linode. :)
~~~
ethomson
This is very helpful information. Can you say if you've moved to a different
provider or if you're now racking your own machines? And if you do have a new
provider, can you say who you are and how you evaluated them?
I have been doing some research in my (limited) spare time to try to find a
new provider, but I still have not made the switch from Linode.
~~~
tptacek
If you follow the link he posted, you'll see they switched away from Linode
almost immediately after the July breach.
~~~
ethomson
Indeed I did read it - my question wasn't "did you move" but "to whom did you
move".
------
forgotAgain
I've been a happy Linode customer for a long, long time. With that I have to
say the fact that they released this late on a Friday afternoon leaves a bad
taste in my mouth. That in turn leaves me with doubts about the veracity of
their statements. I'll probably be looking at alternatives now.
~~~
nsgf
Me too (for about 5 years), but this was the last straw. Seriously. Recently
moved to a dedicated kimsufi (worst support but great VFM hardware-wise).
~~~
ploxiln
I thought this kimsufi thing sounded interesting so I looked it up, and ...
wow the processors in the systems they offer are old. Where do they even get
these things? Must be leftover from OVH?
Xeon E5504 - 45nm process, launched 2009
Core i5-2300 - 32nm process, launched 2011, discontinued 2012
And the Core i5 does not support ecc memory, of course, so what kind of
servers has it been sitting in for 4 years?
~~~
snuxoll
kimsufi === OVH.
------
matt_wulfeck
> We have been working with federal authorities on these matters and their
> criminal investigations are ongoing.
I cringe when I see companies say this. As if we're supposed to feel like the
"hack" was somehow more sophisticated than spearfishing or social engineering
because there's feds on the case.
There's a hole in your security. Diligently look for that hole. If it's a
mistake own up to it fully and apologize. Make your system robust. If you
don't have the talent in your organization to do this, then hire more talented
engineers. Compete with other companies for good people.
~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Disclaimer: Linode employee
Regardless of the severity of the means, the fact is that this sort of attack
is entirely illegal and involving law enforcement is a clear requirement.
~~~
tptacek
That's fine, but I think the parent is implying (probably correctly) that
involving law enforcement isn't really doing anything for the customers of the
service. Sure, what happened was a crime, and if the attackers are really
unlikely they could end up getting arrested in a couple years. "And?"
------
anaphor
I've been using Linode for years and I haven't had too many problems with the
service itself. That being said, this makes me think twice about staying with
them. If I wanted to switch, is the only real competitor Digital Ocean or are
there any other good choices?
~~~
ergo14
[http://oktawave.com](http://oktawave.com) and
[http://vultr.com](http://vultr.com) are said to be good. I haven't used them
though, I personally use baremetal servers at Hetzner.
~~~
eatonphil
I use vultr to host freebsd servers. Have no problems with it but it is young
and it definitely shows. Good host provider to keep an eye on.
~~~
stock_toaster
Same. I have been using it for a cheap freebsd website instance, for just over
a year now. So far, I have needed very little interaction with support, so I
can't speak to how good it is.
------
ivank
I learned to not to trust Linode after incident around 2012-01-23: I emailed
them asking if they would compile a new kernel without the /proc/pid/mem local
root exploit; they manually patched and compiled a new 3.2.1-linode40 kernel.
I booted into it, but it repeatedly locked up my VPS after ~10-12 hours of
runtime. No monitoring or automatic reboot on their side, and both lockups
happened right before I went to sleep. Did they bother notifying anybody about
their buggy kernel, which many people probably booted into? Nope. Nothing.
------
joejoebob
"Linode Security Advisory" is a very misleading title.
------
elchief
Should Linode have not stored their key in a smartcard/hardware security
module and calculated the TOTP using that?
------
ryanlol
I'm just going to leave this glassdoor review here:
[https://i.imgur.com/sJd56AT.png](https://i.imgur.com/sJd56AT.png)
~~~
jsmthrowaway
I left a Glassdoor review about Linode that was removed because I mentioned an
employee (anonymously) who rubbed his genitals on coworkers' keyboards as a
joke. This was reported to and covered up by management because the employee
was essential. Anyway, Glassdoor responded to ostensibly a Linode complaint by
removing my review several weeks after I left it. So they do watch it.
There's a lot more to the story, for sure. It's the worst of the bro culture,
or at least it was when I left. At my next employer they looked over Linode
employees as recruiting opportunities after hiring me, and came to ask me
about potential candidates, and the only one they were interested in was
genital rubber. I laughed and said I'd quit.
~~~
jabberjaws
Employee Disclaimer: It's not 2011 and Mike is not working at Linode anymore.
You really don't get what it's like working at Linode TODAY. I'm sure
everything your stating was terrible for you but it's not an accurate
representation of what the company has become.
~~~
jsmthrowaway
The same people are running the company who did then, who were responsible for
setting the culture of the company, covering for employees who did unspeakable
things (worse than what I've said here), and pretty much instructing employees
to lie to customers.
Also, all the people who quit Linode and ran to this coast after I left have
kept me very apprised of what working at Linode is like TODAY. I still
communicate with your colleagues quite regularly, too.
It is important to reiterate here, as I have before, that I wish Linode no ill
will. I'm becoming more comfortable with calling spades spades, but I do not
wish Linode to fail. I actually hope a lot of this stuff can be fixed,
whatever that entails, but I have a serious gripe with some events that have
transpired since 2011, from security to personal. If Linode would start being
a little more honest about their gaping security troubles, and not rely upon
people like me and Tim who actually know the truth to just shut up about it
(I'm getting braver as Tim does, and I appreciate how willing he is to not let
PagerDuty be tossed around by Linode's deceit), I'd be a bit happier. We're
crossing into knowingly compromising the safety of the Internet, PII, and a
number of production infrastructures that still run on Linode in some cases,
and I _do_ care about that.
And again, that tone of deceit is set from the top.
~~~
dang
> _You know that. Don 't be disingenuous._
> _And you know it._
That's unduly personal. Please remain civil.
~~~
jsmthrowaway
I mean, I was responding to a personal comment that directly and personally
told me I don't "get" things (and which included what can be reasonably
interpreted as a veiled threat by mentioning my departure year from a
throwaway account, to make clear that I'm a known quantity in the equation).
I'm really trying, here, Dan. We've talked about this over e-mail, but it's
getting really tough to contribute here with arbitrary boundaries that are
inconsistently enforced, and that a penalty remains on my account for some
comment I made in the past that doesn't even matter any more.
I bit my tongue on you detaching this subthread because I've learned that
moderation is opaque and largely not welcome to outside opinion, but I agree
with Ryan up there and suspect you detached the thread to hide where I went
with it. I'm fine with that (honest). Just wish you'd say that.
I've edited, regardless. Is that better?
~~~
dang
Yes, that's much better. You took out the personal attack, which was all that
was needed.
I don't have the least opinion about Linode or "where [you] went with it". My
concern is with civility on Hacker News. That's not an arbitrary line, though
I'd never claim we make every call correctly.
The GP seemed to me merely to be saying that the company had changed since you
left. That doesn't seem personal, nor a threat, but perhaps there are
subtleties I'm missing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Taping of Farm Cruelty Is Becoming the Crime - praptak
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/us/taping-of-farm-cruelty-is-becoming-the-crime.html
======
edw519
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
~~~
SeanDav
As an outsider, it appears to me that almost the entire US legal and political
system is driven by, and for the benefit of, corporate and big business
interests. The only other major factor at work seems to be fear - witness the
ever increasing power of the TSA
Probably appears worse than it is, but it does appear to be in a pretty sad
state now.
The Founding Fathers are probably turning in their graves.
~~~
maratd
> As an outsider, it appears to me that the almost the entire US legal and
> political system is driven by, and for the benefit of, corporate and big
> business interests.
This is the case in every country. Those at the top will take an inordinate
amount of time to make rules that benefit themselves and their friends.
The primary difference between the US and other countries is that the US
constitution provides a means for the citizens to fight back against the most
outrageous of offenses. Now, that doesn't mean it always works. In fact, it
rarely does. But it does, in fact, work occasionally, which is better than
nothing.
~~~
neilk
Oh, absolutely. As a Canadian, I live in hope that the US will invade and
replace our system of government.
~~~
brightsize
No doubt you're joking, but one thing I've repeatedly noticed in my many
visits to Canada is the extent to which Canadians define themselves as being
"not American" (meaning not US citizens). Can't blame 'em, more power to them.
~~~
neilk
This is a fair point. I actually can't stand that too.
------
kyrra
This is not meant to defend cruel people, I just want to raise a few points
about farms.
While I have only been to small farms, I have definitely seen what some people
would consider animal cruelty. But I think it's important to understand the
mentality of people that work with these animals.
Animals on farms are seen as property, not a pet in any way. Most owners and
workers of animals distance themselves from the animals to keep themselves
mentally healthy as they will be putting these animals to slaughter to sell or
eat. When distance yourself from an animal, you won't be treating it as nicely
as you would your family dog.
When talking about farm help, they may hold a grudge against the animals they
are working with. A friend would work his uncle's farm every saturday to help
clean up after the pigs. His job was basically shoveling pig poop for 8 hours
(or other equally not-fun jobs). It would take a day before he smelled normal
again. Doing this kind of work can make some people resentful of the animals
they work with.
Farmers and farm help see animals as money, so they won't do anything that
could jeopardize being paid (won't damage the product).
When people are disconnected with the animals they are working with, it is
easier for some people not to be so nice to those animals. This isn't to say
that all people working with animals will be abusive towards them, but it
creates an opening for those people that aren't as nice to take their anger
out on the animals.
~~~
lprubin
As of a couple of years ago, the average job tenure of an employee working in
a slaughterhouse was 6 months. Many people lasted half a day to three days.
The emotional stress and trauma of witnessing living animals being put through
the kind of things factory farming does to them is emotionally overwhelming to
even the most hardened people.
The people who have to witness that day in and day out frequently end up with
extreme emotional turmoil/psychological trauma similar to PTSD and it is these
traumatized employees who end enacting much of the crueler practices talked
about in these videos.
It's very challenging for a person to witness what goes on in a slaughterhouse
and to maintain their sanity. Trying to keep the idea that these are living
creatures with rights but also that it is perfectly fine for them to suffer
the horrible treatment they are subjected to requires a tenuous mental
gymnastics that apparently seems to break down after only a couple of months
of exposure.
~~~
pyre
| factory farming
Slaughterhouses aren't just for 'factory farming.' It's mandated by law that
only licensed/register abattoir can kill animals used for meat, so even the
animals coming from 'humane' farms go through the same process.
Also, I remember reading some statistics about how domestic violence is higher
among slaughterhouse workers. Too lazy to look it up, but IIRC it was _after_
they started working there (not necessarily that violent people were attracted
to the trade).
~~~
ethomson
This depends on the animal. My recollection was that one must process cattle
through a USDA approved facility, but there were no such restrictions on pork
or poultry.
(The lack of a poultry restriction is obvious to anyone who's bought an
organic bird from a local farm.)
Further, as the local eating movement grows, there's an increase in the number
of "boutique" (if you will) slaughterhouses.
[http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/06/04/153511889/small-...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/06/04/153511889/small-
scale-slaughterhouses-aim-to-put-the-local-back-in-local-meat)
------
TomGullen
"One of the group’s model bills, “The Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act,”
prohibits filming or taking pictures on livestock farms to “defame the
facility or its owner.” Violators would be placed on a “terrorist registry.”"
This sounds like a line out of some futuristic dystopian film
~~~
egeozcan
To me, it sounds as if it's taken from George Orwell's novel "Nineteen Eighty-
Four."
~~~
mhaymo
Animal Farm also comes to mind, but that's awfully literal.
------
yuvadam
This is nothing but plutocracy fighting its final battle.
No one is _actually_ suggesting that animal cruelty is OK. But when
documenting such (immoral, mind you) acts raises awareness that eventually
harms business, in the meat and dairy industry in this case, then big money
raises its head in the form of legislation that favors the $$$.
We see the same pattern when hackers are cast as the new terrorists.
~~~
randomdata
I wonder how the tech community would respond if undercover reporters were
breaking into offices and documenting the "incomprehensible" C that managers
are forcing down on employees when they could be purportedly writing software
in English, and people stopped using software to help free the abused
employees who are stuffed in a small cubicle to write nonsensical gibberish
day-in, day-out?
That is what this situation seems like. Animal cruelty is definitely not okay,
but I have noticed a growing trend of reporting best practices, _that attempt
to minimize animal suffering as much as possible_ , as animal cruelty. And the
solutions people are coming up with to improve on those best practices are as
non-sensical as a non-industry expert suggesting that we write software in
English. In a perfect world, sure, but the real world has real constraints.
I would like to see real awareness, not people who feel they are experts on
all rural affair matters after watching a two hour documentary and a YouTube
clip or two. A video ban is definitely not the way to do that, but I can see
the other side. Google isn't going to be too happy if you go around filming
their datacenter, lamenting that you could do the same with a server in your
closet at home, either.
~~~
carbocation
Not that this is really relevant to the topic at hand, but are you actually
drawing an equivalency between people who get paid to write code for a living
and an animal being slaughtered? I don't think the analogy works at all.
~~~
randomdata
No. I'm saying people who do not understand technology could be lead to
believe such things if people started reporting it. Nobody is going to take
the time to realize that people actually enjoy writing software using
programming languages.
And I'm not suggesting animals enjoy being slaughtered, but if it is going to
happen, do you not support doing it the most humane way possible?
~~~
glesica
I support free information. If "best practices" in animal slaughter gross
people out, then maybe we need better "best practices" or maybe we need to
rethink our agriculture system. Just because something has been decided upon
by a group of experts does not make it socially just or appropriate. The
treatment of slaves was, I'm sure, generally done according to what, at that
time, would have been considered "best practices", and people wanted cotton.
But that doesn't mean that slavery should have been ignored and "left to the
professionals".
~~~
kefka
Unless you switch everyone to a meat substitute, killing will be required for
eating meat.
I've eaten: cow, chicken, pig, turkey, duck, frog, octopus, salmon, tuna, and
I'm sure other meats too. All of them required to be killed, for processing.
Don't get me wrong. I eat meat. I've also done slaughtering as well and know
what goes on when you do kill. I also strongly prefer eating humanely treated
animals, before and during slaughter.
~~~
glesica
Fine, that's perfectly fine with me. But nothing you said suggests that
recording slaughter practices should be some sort of special "first amendment
black hole". If it grosses people out, then maybe we'll just end up with more
vegetarians, oh well.
~~~
randomdata
I'm not sure it is quite that simple. The article seems to indicate that it
isn't about hiding information per-say, but to keep the people, who come with
the specific intent of destroying the farm, away. You will notice it is not
just about videos.
I think most farmers respect, and even often agree with, with normal animal
rights activists, but they also have a real fear towards the "crazy PETA
types", and with good reason. I think you'd find any industry trying to push
for similar laws in the presence of similar activists, and we do have laws for
similar cases that have come up.
Its unfortunate that those who have a real concern for the well-being of
animals, and actually want to work with farmers to see improvements, get
wrapped up in the spectacle that others bring.
~~~
kefka
And the harsh fact: for you to live, something else must die.
We only focus on factory farm operations and the possible illegality of
filming illegal actions. Yes, there are horrible practices in many parts of
industry (I would say more horrible than not).
I just got done watching a documentary about plant communication on Nature
(PBS). They also seem to be able to identify self, relative, and non-self.
They communicate across species about predator information. They initiate
active chemical defenses against organisms that attack them. They also respond
to negative stimuli (pain). All things considered, they seem to be able to
think and feel similarly to the animals.
Now.. I say this why? Most people would have no compunction about killing a
plant for food, yet many I know would strongly object in killing a cow or
chicken to eat meat.
My point is this: plants and animals seem to feel pain and seek to minimize
it. Plants and animals are both living. I would not say that any specific
plant is any more or less important than an animal (including us). However,
for us to live, something must, inevitably die.
I make a thanks to the beings, plant and animal, I consume before each meal.
------
lprubin
If you eat factory farmed meat, eggs, or dairy, you are almost guaranteed to
be supporting animal cruelty. There are many fantastic books and documentaries
detailing the horrors and dangers of factory farming and I've linked to a few
below. This is an open secret.
I would be willing to bet that almost anybody here, once they've looked deeply
into factory farming, would come out the other side and look at factory farmed
animal products in a completely new light.
Do you truly want to stop farm animal cruelty? Investigate this industry and
consider no longer buying factory farmed animal products.
[http://www.amazon.com/Food-Inc-Participant-Industrial-
Poorer...](http://www.amazon.com/Food-Inc-Participant-Industrial-
Poorer-/dp/1586486942/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365429391&sr=1-1&keywords=food+inc)
[http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Animals-Jonathan-Safran-
Foer/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Animals-Jonathan-Safran-
Foer/dp/0316069884)
~~~
eltondegeneres
There is no such thing as humane meat, eggs, or dairy, even in the absence of
factory farming. Dairy requires that cows be forcibly inseminated, male chicks
are ground alive in hatcheries, and it is impossible to produce meat without
killing an animal. "Humane" meat is just a way for the wealthy to absolve
themselves of complicity in killing for taste and convenience by paying a
premium for something that is anything but humane.
~~~
ndespres
You're wrong about this.
-dairy animals can be chosen based on their long-term milk production (my goats haven't been bred in 2+ years and are still giving more milk than I know what to do with, and when they are finally bred we have other uses for males around the farm).
-I hatch my own chicks and the males are not ground alive (or tossed in trash, or euthanized, or whatever). My chickens get as much love as my dogs do.
-Of course it's impossible to produce meat without killing an animal, but it is very much possible to produce meat while caring about the animal immensely and ensuring its quality of life is never compromised (save for the last instant). It is the hardest thing in the world- and it should be. Raising my own animals for meat has changed the way I consume other meat (or rather, the way i DON'T consume other meat) unless I'm sure it has been handled, beginning to end, with the same care and concern that I give my animals.
Humane meat is possible without being elitist, expensive, and inhumane, and I
take personally your accusation that there's any convenience in it. Attitudes
like yours are just one more factor that a small farmer has to deal with in
this uphill battle against backwards attitudes towards meat raising and I'd
appreciate it if you'd cool it on the propaganda!
~~~
redblacktree
Thank you for this. Moral absolutism with respect to killing animals for meat
doesn't advance the conversation; it just gives vegans a way to feel superior.
You seem to understand that what matters (to many people) is the quality of
life for the _living_ animal.
A note to all hard-line vegans: If you want to do something to improve the
welfare of the animals we raise for meat, engage people in discussions of
humane farming practices w.r.t. livestock. Most meat-eaters you talk to aren't
ready to give it up. So ask yourself: Would you rather live in a world of
factory farms, or a world where animals are raised and slaughtered in the
_most_ humane way we can manage? Give up on the idea that you'll convert
everyone you meet to a vegan, and you can still do a lot of good in this
world. When you take hard-line stances like the poster above, you alienate
your meat-eating audience and end the conversation.
~~~
eltondegeneres
Ending chattel slavery probably didn't seem that feasible to abolitionists in
1820s United States. That doesn't mean they would have gained anything by
compromising though. Advocating for welfare reforms rather than abolition
sends mixed messages and suggests that there is a tolerable level of (to put
it bluntly) exploitation.
~~~
redblacktree
I guess we'll be forced to stick with the status quo, then. Politics requires
compromise. Not everyone's moral yardstick is the same as yours. I don't think
you would find a great many people who would think that the slave analogy is
appropriate, so the only option I have left is to exclude you from the
conversation. You're in a very small minority when you equate the rights of
animals to the rights of a human.
------
simonster
As an animal researcher, I'm of two minds on this.
Obviously, it's better if animal cruelty is exposed. The practices mentioned
in the introduction definitely constitute cruelty. They should not be allowed
to happen, and whistleblowers should be permitted to record them so that
evidence may be presented in court.
On the other hand, people with ties to animal rights organizations have a
habit of finding animal cruelty where there is none. See
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Spring_monkeys> for a classic example.
The pictures produced by PETA portrayed a researcher's work as an open-and-
shut case of animal cruelty when, in fact, the research was scientifically
justified and it was ambiguous whether there was any negligence in the way the
animals were cared for.
~~~
eltondegeneres
There was no doubt whether the animals subjected to unreasonable suffering. As
for the question of scientific justification, there were non-animal models for
neuroplasticity research available at the time. The widespread use of monkeys
in neuroscience is more of a matter of convenience and entrenched interests.
Just because a study produces scientific results does not mean that it is
ethically valid, take the Tuskegee syphilis experiments or San Antonio
Contraceptive Study for example.
~~~
simonster
This debate has been covered to death in other sources. The majority of
scientists disagree with you. It might be because there is a vast conspiracy;
it might because most peoples' values differ from yours; or it might be
because we know neuroscience better than you do
EDIT: Just to make clear, I don't want this to be taken as a wholehearted
endorsement of the treatment of the animals in the Silver Springs case. There
were some questionable practices. However, I feel that there was a scientific
reason to be performing the general class of experiments.
~~~
jkn
Scientists who don't feel strongly about animal rights defend the position
that is most convenient and efficient for them. If using a monkey instead of
spending months cultivating petri dishes is easier (e.g. more
deterministically successful for publication) then of course they will
advocate for using the monkey. This argument leaves the animal rights activist
unimpressed. In the end most animal experiments are certainly useful but few
are strictly necessary. Researchers complain about all the paperwork required
but I wish it was 100 times more difficult to get these experiments approved.
Then people would really make sure the experiment is well thought-out and
important. And I would happily delay some scientific discoveries by 50 years
if that can spare a few million animals (thanks to better computer models or
new noninvasive techniques)
~~~
ctdonath
And if the delay costs human lives? perhaps lots of them?
You make it sound like there is no consequence of the delay except time. Alas,
time is among the most precious things each of us has, and I personally don't
have another 50 to spare.
~~~
jkn
How is that the animals' problem? But note that I was referring to _some_
discoveries. I just don't believe we're close to making an efficient "use" of
the millions of animals subject to experiments every year.
------
mdkess
Why not require video cameras be installed in factory farms, and have footage
independently reviewed? I feel like a lot of this abuse is due to poorly
educated workers in a stressful environment and no observation.
~~~
spacemanaki
I just pasted this quote elsewhere in this thread but I'm going to paste it
here again because it's so bold-faced.
The videos may seem troubling to someone unfamiliar with farming, said
Kelli Ludlum, the group’s director of Congressional relations, but
they can be like seeing open-heart surgery for the first time.
“They could be performing a perfect procedure, but you would consider
it abhorrent that they were cutting a person open,” she said.
Some of the behavior filmed is standard operating procedures, and they don't
want that viewed by the otherwise ignorant public.
~~~
carbocation
And yet, in contrast, we have surgeons posting their videos for all to see on
YouTube because they are proud of the work that they do and they want people
to see what goes on in the OR.
~~~
mseebach
It helps that "victims" of successful surgeries end up playing catch with
their kids, and not in a clearance bin in a supermarket.
------
hmottestad
I love these short pieces on stupid legislation in the land of the free.
Makes me so happy I don't live there.
Who in their right mind would even propose such legislation. What kind of
immoral, capitalistic people are in charge in the US.
~~~
InclinedPlane
Newsflash: it's extraordinarily unlikely that you live in a country with
stronger protection of freedom of speech than the US. In fact, if you live in
Europe you almost certainly don't.
~~~
Uchikoma
If you live in a free county, say fuck on TV. If not don't lecture others
about free speech.
~~~
nkozyra
We have plenty of channels using the word "fuck" on tv at any given moment. In
fact, it's highly likely that you regularly watch a few of those shows.
~~~
Uchikoma
Actually no. I prefer shows from the UK.
~~~
nkozyra
You don't watch a single US-produced television program. I believe this.
~~~
mistercow
Your sarcasm indicates that you think this is somehow a preposterous concept.
Despite being American, I have not watched a single American TV show in more
than a month, and that instance was a single episode at a party gathered to
share food and watch it (I was there for the people, not the show).
Granted, I watch very little TV, but what I do watch is from the UK.
------
johndavidback
As a US citizen, this scares the crap out of me. If the government is actively
and publicly preventing people from exposing rampant crime, it speaks volumes.
At least if they were trying to be covert or slick about it, it implies they
know what they are doing is wrong.
~~~
ianstallings
They just rammed a bill through congress to make Monsato above the law. They
have drones scouring the globe for vans filled with people they can drop bombs
on if they think they may associate with "bad" people. If you talk about it
you're a conspiracy theorist. Which means you go onto a list. Gotta watch what
you're doing now. They try to disarm the public in the name of safety while
arming themselves to the teeth and solving every problem they have with the
threat of violence.
Think this is crazy talk? Well that's my point. It's become crazy to even
mention some things. Frankly, the stuff is getting outright creepy and they
better be careful because they are playing with fire.
~~~
thisone
I find this bit to be on the 'oh-please' side of crazy:
>They try to disarm the public in the name of safety while arming themselves
to the teeth and solving every problem they have with the threat of violence.
because I have a friend who used this basic argument to say gun control
increases the likelihood of a nuclear strike on DC by North Korea.
~~~
ianstallings
Well is it not the truth? The US has the world's most heavily armed police
forces. Their military makes others look quaint. They have military actions
going on today right now all over the world. They always need more $ to
continue the violence. Yet they claim that violence is wrong. It's really no
wonder we're like a bunch of crazy people.
The simple fact is uncle sam solves every problem with violence so I'm not
surprised when it's citizens act the same way.
~~~
thisone
In the overall argument, I find a distinction between citizen and government.
I disagree with the Supreme Court's interpretation of the second amendment, so
that gives a basis of where I come from when equating ownership of firearms
for personal protection to a standing military.
However, I can't stop my eye's from rolling at someone telling me that if
everyone had guns, there would be no nuclear threat from any
person/group/country. I honestly don't understand how one can connect to the
other.
------
DanielBMarkham
I am totally for people being able to expose farm cruelty if the goal is an
open debate to enact political change. I wonder, however, if sometimes people
use their free speech rights to terrorize potential supporters and advocates,
folks who are unfamiliar with reality and context, in order to raise money
through FUD. That doesn't mean I don't support their right to free speech.
Just means that the speaking part and the recording part need to be considered
separately.
I added that caveat because what we're going to see is all sorts of people
with all kinds of interests taping things, especially with drone technology
and ubiquitous surveillance. This isn't somebody writing a play, novel, or an
editorial. It's somebody taking something that you thought was private and
displaying it for the world to see, inside their own editorial frame. It's
something we should think about carefully. While I am completely in support of
MLK's right to make the speech "I have a dream", I'm not so sure I'd be in
favor of somebody secretly taping him with a drone while he was creating it.
And then creating their own political content around that tape.
Case in point: here's an article I was going to research and rewrite last week
but didn't have time. In Australia, animal activists are planning on using
drones to tape farmers looking for cruelty.
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/02/animal_liberation_au...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/02/animal_liberation_australia_drones/)
Would you want anybody with a political cause access to your property whenever
they wanted to make recordings to support their political point?
------
ianstallings
There's a creepy trend going on in the world and it's always been around, but
it's gaining steam - the restriction of information. Make it illegal to talk
about or simply ignore it becomes the standard. "These aren't the droids
you're looking for" as they speak to the world.
~~~
coldpie
I disagree. I think we are trending in the opposite direction, and these kinds
of bills are the "bad guys" fighting back against that progress. The Internet
and computing generally have really opened the flood gates on freedom of
information. We have to fight to keep making progress, but I honestly believe
we're trending forward on this.
It's easy to draw an analogy to another fight dear to me, gay rights in the
United States. 40 years ago, there were no anti-gay constitutional amendments.
Today we're seeing many states pass anti-gay constitutional amendments. Is
that because we're going backwards on gay rights, or because the "bad guys"
are fighting progress? I think it's clearly the latter.
Don't get discouraged by losing a battle when you're winning the war :) Keep
up the fight.
------
TomGullen
Can't the people filming the cruelty just re-brand themselves as undercover
journalists and get all the protection journalists receive?
~~~
gambiting
You can't just "brand" yourself a journalist. You need a licence and
accreditation.
~~~
TomGullen
I wasn't aware that was the case, can't anyone be a self proclaimed
investigative journalist?
~~~
jarito
It is not, he's wrong. Whether someone is, or is not, a journalist has been
decided by courts in the past as part of the application of the various
journalist shield laws.
Working for a well-known publication and having a journalism degree certainly
helps your case, but it is not required.
~~~
gambiting
You can only get to certain places with a press pass, like war zones and such,
and it grants you diplomatic immunity and journalist protection from many
things that could happen to you :P
You can't just run in yelling "I am a journalist!" and expecting everyone to
accept it. Either you are accredited or you are not.
------
snarfy
I doubt all the people signing on to this even know it's happening.
American Legislative Exchange Council: <http://www.alec.org/about-alec/>
It might help to contact your representative and let them know about this
article and that you associate them to it, and to protecting animal cruelty.
------
patrickk
I wonder what would have happened if this kind of legislation was in place for
the guy who filmed the Mitt Romney "47%" video.
~~~
Anechoic
That recording _was_ illegal: <http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/florida-
recording-law>
------
gerhardi
Why did the original posting get deleted? On to the topic, this is just
ridiculous, how can anyone vote for such a law?
~~~
kristofferR
Yeah, I found the deletion really weird too! Good that it's back though.
------
btipling
Here's a crazy idea, stop eating meat. It's energy inefficient and cruel.
~~~
Ygg2
Here's a better idea. Engineer meat from animal stem cells. More energy
efficient and less cruel (although maybe less tasty). Plants take less energy
but provide less energy to humans (meat is more power efficient). Think of
plant and animal like 1.5V batteries vs. 3V batteries.
~~~
btipling
Nope. It would require less farming to feed people than to feed animals and
people to eat those animals. Energy loss is an order of magnitude. If you ate
the plants instead of eating the animals eating the plants it would be more
energy efficient.
~~~
Ygg2
Would it take less energy to grow meat (in lab) or grow plant?
~~~
btipling
I don't know anything about growing meat in the lab, but it doesn't sound very
appealing and I've lost any desire to eat meat long ago so I don't really care
either way. The theoretical potential to grow meat isn't in any way a
convincing argument to make eating meat right this minute either non-cruel or
energy efficient however.
------
Egregore
From original article: _but they can be like seeing open-heart surgery for the
first time._
_“They could be performing a perfect procedure, but you would consider it
abhorrent that they were cutting a person open,” she said._
So should we now ban the taping of heart surgery?
------
pm90
Putting the issue of legality of such legislation aside, it kinda surprised me
that the farm-owners/workers were not more concerned about the kind of cruelty
going on in their property. Do these people not find the videos incredibly
unsettling? How can they allow these things under their watch?
~~~
spacemanaki
At least one of the practices mentioned, de-beaking [0], is nowhere near out
of the ordinary at factory hatcheries. One of the quoted lobbyists even makes
the point that some of the behavior recorded is the norm, not the exception:
The videos may seem troubling to someone unfamiliar with farming, said
Kelli Ludlum, the group’s director of Congressional relations, but
they can be like seeing open-heart surgery for the first time.
“They could be performing a perfect procedure, but you would consider
it abhorrent that they were cutting a person open,” she said.
While some of the abuses may be unusual, I suspect the truth is that they
would prefer no one tape the regular day-to-day goings on at factory farms
either.
[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debeaking>
~~~
kefka
Regarding debeaking, it IS not removal of the whole beak. It is the technique
of rounding off the beak.
We've raised chickens before, starting from chicks/eggs. The chicks will peck
at anything, including other chicks. We lost 2 chicks that way, because one
had a bloodspot, and we don't know about the other one. Having rounded beaks
(and the tools to do that) would have saved us 2 animals.
I also saw on Facebook someone moaning about Cannulized cows and the "evil
trauma" it must be. Let alone, it is a great way to monitor the herd (cows)
along with providing rapid response to bad plants causing problems, like
jimpson weed.
If most people had to go through the process of raise animal; slaughter
animal; clean carcass; package meat: Most people would be vegetarians. I've
done it, and would do it again if I had to.
~~~
spacemanaki
You're right, I should have used the word "trimming" since "debeaking" is a
bit loaded. I didn't know that it was still necessary or recommended for
raising chickens in smaller operations, thanks for enlightening me.
I still think that most consumers of eggs (and meat, and milk) who have never
seen a battery cage operation (or factory farm, CAFO, slaughterhouse, etc)
would be surprised, if not horrified, and I suspect that this is the real
motivation behind these laws and lobbying efforts.
~~~
kefka
I very much do agree: much of the current factory farm techniques are just
plain disgusting.
Many of the big egg-ufacturers calculate space per chick in cm^3. They cannot
turn or pretty much move in any direction. General treatment is abhorrent.
Feed is not a natural ground-peck but some nutrient paste pellets filled with
antibiotics. Sanitation is whatever falls through the cage. What doesn't ends
up burning the chickens' feet.
But about my story: We bought 15 chickens. 8 of them were chicks, and 7 were
eggs about to hatch. Baby chicks, especially in an incubator, are harsh little
evil things. They will all peck at whatever is different. Out of 15, we lost
2, which does seem average for farmers. It's also why you use red lights on
chicks too: so they can't see blood.
------
S4M
Can we, as a hacker community, do something about this kind of abuse -
irregardless whether taping animal cruelty becomes illegal or not?
My idea would be to set up some kind of wiki leaks for those videos, where
animal rights militants would be able to anonymously post their videos.
------
marze
They should pass a law requiring 24 hr cameras in all animal facilities
broadcasting to the web. People who care could monitor the feeds.
If no cruelty takes place and those who care about animals not being
mistreated cover the costs, it is win win.
------
joering2
"But a dozen or so state legislatures have had a different reaction"
May we know them by names? "state legislatures" is a body, not a actual
person. I want to know the names so next time they knock at my door asking for
a vote, I know what to say.
------
will_brown
These companies can already include non-disclosure, non-disparagement and non-
circumvention provisions in their employment agreements. If an
employee/undercover investigator violates those contractual terms not only
could they be individually liable for damages but the organizations (news or
animal rights organizations) sponsoring the undercover investigation could
also be liable.
Further, they can contractually prohibit employees from video recording at
their place of employment - there is no need for these companies to be
lobbying for criminal sanctions for this behavior.
------
pyre
Even in the most extreme of cases, I don't see how claiming that A.L.F. even
is a 'terrorist' organisation. Sure they 'liberate' the animals from their
owners, but you don't call a burglar a terrorist. Seems these days like
"breaking the law in the furtherance of a political cause" is the new
definition of terrorism (rather than using violence to sow the seeds to
terror), and we're creating more laws to make more terrorists. Gotta fuel the
War on Terror somehow I guess...
~~~
DanBC
ALF is an umbrella term. There was an ALF press office, which would release
information and propaganda. But anyone was free to perform an action and claim
it for the ALF. Calling an organisation like that terrorist is problematic.
But, still ...
There was a campaign against department stores selling fur in the 80s / 90s.
The claimed intent was to cause massive water damage from sprinkler systems.
People would place incendiary devices into the pockets of clothes (one reason
pockets are now stitched closed) and these devices would go off at night.
Unfortunately sprinkler systems didn't go off, and stores burnt down. 'Out of
hours' does not mean 'empty'; the lives of cleaners, for example, were risked
by this campaign.
There have been other arson campaigns against abattoirs, meat packing /
distribution plants, dairies, etc.
Animal rights activists have dug up corpses.
There has been an extensive campaign of harassment against anyone linked to
Huntingdon Life Sciences; this includes anyone providing any form of service
to HLS. People think in terms of 'legitimate targets'. A company is a
legitimate target. Anyone working for that company is a legitimate target. The
children of, for example, a secretary working for that company are not
legitimate targets.
Early members of ALF got advice from IRA.
Breaking the law to further a political cause is, perhaps, fine. But some of
the extremes done in the name of animal rights are clearly terrorist offences.
~~~
pyre
Maybe so, but the government likes to label all animal rights activists as
terrorists. Even groups like ADL whose expressed mandate is to promote animal
rights via legal means.
My point wasn't that all animal rights activists are angels, but moreso that
there is a bias against them from government/law enforcement. Some anti-
abortion activists have _bombed_ abortion clinics, but you don't see the anti-
abortion movement labelled as a bunch of terrorists.
------
aaronbrethorst
Ah, ALEC is behind it. Color me not shocked. Here's some background:
* [http://swampland.time.com/2012/04/09/alec-what-it-does-and-w...](http://swampland.time.com/2012/04/09/alec-what-it-does-and-why-three-major-corporations-cut-ties/)
* [http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-04-13/why-are-mcdo...](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-04-13/why-are-mcdonalds-coca-cola-and-intuit-fleeing-alec)
------
hispanic
If you'd like to take action against Ag-Gag, I suggest signing the petition at
<http://www.ag-gag.org/>. You might also want to consider subscribing to the
FarmForward mailing list and/or making a donation -
<http://www.farmforward.com>
------
Zimahl
Isn't this in direct conflict with whistleblower laws? I mean, it should never
be illegal to report on illegal activity.
However, if PETA feels that a perfectly legal and well-maintained
slaughterhouse should be taped and the 'horrors' shown, that's a different
story. Just because they feel 'meat is murder' doesn't mean that it is.
~~~
lessnonymous
I think that's probably at least the intention of the legislation. When PETA
films some normal farm procedure, they'll add ominous music, show only the
most horrid parts of whatever is happening, desaturate the pictures and tar
the entire industry with being gruesome.
Under 1st Amendment rights, they're allowed to do this. They're not showing
anything that didn't happen so it isn't libelous.
Personally I think the first amendment is out of date. The appeal to it's
authority is a prime example of the Historians Fallacy[1]. In many other
countries there are restrictions on speech -- and that is seen as a generally
good thing. Eg. hate speech, and holocaust denial. Defamation cases are also
able to hide behind the first amendment in the USA, where they cannot
elsewhere.
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian%27s_fallacy>
------
CurtMonash
At this point in the US, censorship laws like this usually get defeated.
Fourth Amendment/privacy/etc. are the areas where I'm more worried about civil
liberties.
That said, the reason they get defeated is, in large part, because of the
outcry when they're attempted. I don't want to minimize the need to keep
fighting for freedom.
------
gizmo686
For anyone fammilar with the US legal system, would you need to be tried for
breaking this law before you can challenge it in court (where you would be on
the hook for criminal penalties), or can you proactivly challenge such laws
without breaking them?
~~~
jellicle
Depends!
In some cases, you can make the claim that a certain law is so broad and
clearly unconstitutional that it affects everyone and should be struck down.
The courts may accept such a case or they may say, "no, doesn't look like that
to us, wait until you have someone prosecuted under this law and then come
back and argue about the specific case".
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_challenge>
------
lectrick
Burying your head in the sand was always an excellent survival strategy.
------
gyardley
Sure, it's a silly law, sure, it probably won't survive constitutional review,
and most definitely, true cruelty to animals is a crime.
But this is also a rather predictable backlash against groups who aren't
looking to correct occasional violations of regulations in the meatpacking
industry, but shut down the industry as a whole - devastating local
communities by getting rid of a ton of low-skilled jobs. Since we're not
exactly making more low-skilled jobs these days, many of the people affected
will be impoverished for life, taking their towns with them.
Given that, it's not at all surprising that employees, employers, and local
politicians are responding very aggressively. Any industry under the same
threat would respond the same way.
~~~
hni
> devastating local communities by getting rid of a ton of low-skilled jobs
Why would those communities be devastated? People still have to eat, hence
low-skilled jobs would still be required to produce other kinds of food in the
same local communities.
~~~
gyardley
Meatpacking remains labor intensive in a way that other forms of large-scale
farming are not.
Even if there was labor parity, they're not usually done in the same places.
Meatpacking is usually done near transportation hubs, and ranching is usually
on land that's not suitable for agricultural purposes.
------
Ras_
Unwittingly in this attempt to legislate, they might have found the best way
possible to raise moral justification to do farm tapes in the first place.
------
cpursley
Is there a farm cruelty map? One where locations can be tagged with media,
info about the farm and the farm product buyers? There should be...
------
pvaldes
and now, for something different
With the avian flu problem rising again, Maybe to keep these young activists
out of the farms and safe of touching avian decays is not as bad idea as it
could seem
There are some risks associated to each working place, and is not very sage
that any not autorized people can mess with the human food chain
------
michaelochurch
This is disgusting. Apparently taping animal cruelty in order to influence
economic behavior is now _terrorism_.
This reminds me of how much of the press sat on the wiretapping scandals of
2004 because "it might be political" (meaning it might affect the election,
since Bush was directly responsible). As long as the information is truthful,
that's the press's fucking job!
Ignorance is Strength, Freedom is Slavery, and Truth is Terrorism.
------
MindBoozer
I don't think anyone here has been to a farm.
~~~
TallGuyShort
Wrong
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Breaking the web with hash-bangs - Terretta
http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/javascript/BreakingTheWebWithHashBangs
======
raganwald
I accept the brittleness of a content-oriented site switching to a javascript-
driven SPI implementation, however I'm confused by the assertion that the
strongest reason to switch is because it's cool. I can't speak for Gawker, but
some sites may switch because they want the browser to do more of the
rendering work, such as rendering templates. Others may want to avoid the
overhead with a full page refresh as users navigate the site.
The author clearly dislikes what's going on, and the post would be stronger if
he simply stated the disadvantages and let others speak to the benefits rather
than putting up a strawman and claiming that people implement this sort of
site because it's cool.
~~~
ZoFreX
The author does his point a disservice by being under-informed, imo. I agree
that Gawker's redesign is horrible, and share his hate of needless javascript
(why re-implement half the browser stack?), but his suggestions for
improvement would actually be a reduction in functionality.
He suggests using real URLs - instead of "/#!5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-
new-lifehacker" we would have "/5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-new-
lifehacker". Sounds great, but what happens when you click to a new article,
which is loaded with AJAX?
> Engineers will mutter something about preserving state within an Ajax
> application. And frankly, that’s a ridiculous reason for breaking URLs like
> that.
Is it? Let's try things all possible ways (with the assumption that content is
loaded via AJAX) and see what happens. Firstly, the current state:
Address bar: "/#!5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-new-lifehacker", click on a
link, now it's "/#!downloads/5753887". I can bookmark this, send the link to a
friend, etc etc.
Option two is to not track this at all, after all preserving state isn't that
important, right?
Address bar: "/#!5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-new-lifehacker", click a
link, it doesn't change. I can't bookmark the new page, I can't send the link
to a friend, my back button won't work properly.
Third option is to use real URLs as he suggested... we need to track state
(otherwise we hit the same problems in option 2) so let's try that: Address
bar: "/5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-new-lifehacker", click a link, it now
contains "/5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-new-lifehacker#!downloads/5753887".
Oops. That's even less clean.
Conclusion: If you must load content with AJAX, using URL fragments to track
state is the most functional and cleanest-URL option available.
~~~
sjs
> He suggests using real URLs - instead of "/#!5753509/hello-world-this-is-
> the-new-lifehacker" we would have "/5753509/hello-world-this-is-the-new-
> lifehacker". Sounds great, but what happens when you click to a new article,
> which is loaded with AJAX?
I would deliver the page with plain old HTML links to other pages. On page
load I'd use JavaScript to see if the new pushState[1] API is available, and
if so fetch the JS required to update the page dynamically and then update the
link elements to do the AJAXy thing. Seems like it would degrade gracefully in
old browsers and keep the URL current in new browsers.
[1]
[https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/Manipulating_the_browse...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/Manipulating_the_browser_history)
edit: is sjs382 my doppelganger?! (or vice versa)
~~~
ZoFreX
Yes, if I were forced to use JS for loading the primary content I would do
that too. There are a couple of options for doing so if you don't want to roll
your own (and you don't - it is actually a very complex thing to get working
cross browser), JQuery History [1] which is nice and simple, and JQuery BBQ if
you need a bit more control.
Personally I think it's a little early for pushState, and degrading to #! is
really ugly, so for now I would say just use normal page loads like everyone
else unless you have a really good reason (good reason: GMail. bad reason:
glorified blog.)
[1] <http://tkyk.github.com/jquery-history-plugin/> [2]
<http://benalman.com/projects/jquery-bbq-plugin/>
~~~
sjs
Agreed. I meant degrade to regular URLs, not the #! thing. IMO you don't need
the #! for something as simple as switching articles.
------
jbermudes
Looks like gawker sites show up pretty much empty with javascript turned off,
and on top of it there's no warning that it has to be turned on? What ever
happened to graceful degradation? Give me 1996 text only if you have to, but
please, don't break the web by forcing javascript. Even Gmail, the poster
child for javascript/Ajax detects that you have it disabled and shows you an
HTML-only version.
------
burgerbrain
Can someone explain to me why a site like lifehacker even needs javascript at
all, let alone so much? It's a _blog_ , presumably it's value _should_ come
from the value of it's textual and pictorial content.
It's just _nuts_ that I have to burn so much CPU just to read some text.
~~~
garry
The web is evolving to provide media experiences that are lower latency and
much more exploration oriented. No page reloads and greater interactivity are
the first step.
~~~
burgerbrain
All of that adds exactly zero to the actual content of the blog. You know,
'content', the stuff I actually visit blogs for.
Furthermore, I've _never_ been annoyed at page reloads while reading a blog.
Now their shitty transition crap?... There is nothing "lower latency" here.
~~~
silversmith
Sending a e-mail does not add any real 'content' over telegraphing the same
message. It's just a change of presentation layer. I still would rather send
e-mails.
And the same way I would rather create JS-driven sites. It allows me to be
more creative with the presentation, while staying in the comfort zone of
HTML/CSS/JS. Offloading work from my servers to the computers (that, based on
my experience, are near-idle while browsing) of end users is a nice benefit.
Oh, and I would disagree about the 'There is nothing "lower latency" here'
statement. I visited lifehacker.com out of curiosity, and noticed something:
with JS navigation, I could scan headlines in the sidebar while the article
was loading, something I would not be able to do while a 'traditional' page
was rendering.
Of course, it's not a general rule. There are projects where you support
IE6/7, and then there are projects where you don't give a damn whether it
works for anything but edge versions. Same with using JS as presentation
layer.
~~~
cousin_it
> _with JS navigation, I could scan headlines in the sidebar while the article
> was loading, something I would not be able to do while a 'traditional' page
> was rendering._
...Wha? You can make traditional pages that display progressively just fine.
In fact that's the default mode of operation for HTML and was supported as far
back as Netscape 1.0. What's it with people, why do they keep forgetting about
sensible architectural decisions just because they were made long ago? Or am I
just getting old?
~~~
jarek
Most web programmers have always had the attention span of a goldf-- ooh shiny
thing!
------
drdaeman
Even not considering that HTML5 History API, is it hard to just consider
"/1234/spam" and "/#!1234/spam" synonymous and use the latter when you
navigate with JavaScript enabled?
I.e.:
1\. You visit "/1234/spam", and get served full HTML page with some (optional)
JavaScript for progressive enhancement.
2\. You click on "/4321/ham" link, but JavaScript hooks it up and replaces URI
with "/#!4321/ham" (if your browser don't support HTML5 history API, of
course). Yes, there is one full-page reload.
2.1. (Alternative) Or - even better - you can be redirected to "/#!1234/spam"
on step 1, so you won't notice the glitch on your first click.
3\. You continue to navigate with AJAX, now without reloads. You can bookmark
pages and so on (and if you somehow happen to lose JavaScript support you
could just remove "#!" to get a valid URI).
Very simplified implementation cost:
1\. `$("a[href]").attr("href", function() { return
this.href.replace(/^\/(?!#)/, "/#!"); });` on every page
2\. `if (location.pathname === "/" and location.hash.match(/^\/#!/) {
$("#content").load(location.hash.replace(/^#!/, "/") + "?format=content-
only"); ... }` on / page.
3\. Ability to return undecorated ("article-only") content on
`/1234/spam?format=content-only` requests.
~~~
Pewpewarrows
You just described exactly what you're _supposed_ to do in a progressively-
enhanced single-page Javascript application. Build the existing site first
without a single line of js, develop the hash-bang/HTML5 history syntax on top
of it, and replace the links if javascript exists.
The Gawker family of sites failed at doing all of this.
------
antimatter15
I was building an app that used pushState/replaceState recently instead of the
hash bang syntax, but getting content navigation isn't easy. For example, when
attaching the event handler to the links, you have to be careful not to make
it trigger on middle or right clicks and you have to keep track of the scroll
state so going back keeps the same behavior and also to take a copy of the
previous selected text. Without all of that, intra-page navigation feels
unnatural and uncanny.
~~~
strager
Good points, but it seems some of that (scrolling, selection, form data, etc.)
should be left to the browsers to fix/implement/deal with. Granted, it _is_ a
really bad user experience.
Seems like this should be made a JS library in the meantime. (Hint, hint. =])
------
hybrid11
We had a similar problem with our site, and we solved the issue by using <a
id="linkID" href="pathToContent">title</a> links with a jQuery event handler
that prevents the default behavior of the link.
With this implementation, when the link is clicked the appropriate content is
served through an Ajax call, and the crawlers are able to index the content.
You can see it in action here <http://lynkly.com>
~~~
pnathan
I like the smooth two-column layout and flow. It's very high class.
------
timb
Newer browsers ( <http://caniuse.com/#search=history> ) can manipulate the url
without needing the #! hack.
~~~
raganwald
To be specific, it's just the # hack, or fragment hack if you like. The bang
leading the fragment is a Google-specific thing to help the Googlebot crawl
your content.
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3009380/whats-the-
shebang...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3009380/whats-the-shebang-in-
facebook-and-new-twitter-urls-for)
~~~
Yaggo
<strike>No, timb was referring to HTML5 history api. It makes possible to
alter the path component of a URL by javascript, eliminating the need for #
hack. Try browsing repositories on github with WebKit-based browser to see a
real world example.</strike> (sorry for my misreading)
~~~
ehsanul
And raganwald was referring to the '#!' hack, since it's really just the '#'
hack. He wasn't addressing the history api.
------
poink
The more complex your site gets, the harder making /foo/bar => #!/foo/bar
dance becomes. This is hampered by the fact that, when you bring these issues
up with business folks, it'll probably go something like this (from
experience):
1) How many of our users will be affected? 2) How much harder (i.e. how much
longer) will it be to do it right? 3) Don't we depend on JS to inject ads
anyway? Ads are the whole reason anybody's paying for this...
When you truthfully answer #1, if #2 is more than about 5 minutes, nobody's
going to budget for it.
Overall, the hash-as-URL argument is hampered by the fact that Gawker is a
prime example of going single page just because you can. Other than fancy
page->page transitions, I don't see what their new setup buys them.
------
evandavid
For the time being, I will personally continue to build #!-only websites,
designed exclusively for javascript enabled browsers. Maintaining two versions
(along the guidelines of progressive enhancement) is just too much work
(maintaining and testing html view templates as well as jQuery or moustache
templates) considering that so few people lack javascript. I wouldn't let a
release go live without running a selenium suite across it in any case. My
perspective would be different, I imagine, if I worked on a large team that
could 'afford' to take the progressive enhancement route.
~~~
afhof
I take almost the polar opposite approach to you, always providing a safe
fallback to plain ol' HTML. I feel its a defensive style and doesn't provide a
single point of failure. I run Noscript since it makes most pages load much
faster. No offense, but I don't want to run your code, I'd rather read your
content.
~~~
evandavid
Fair. Would you feel the same way about a web application, as opposed to a
content-heavy site?
~~~
polynomial
Are there still content heavy sites? Not to be facetious here but it seems
user demand is aligned with smaller and smaller, more and more active bits of
content served by web applications. At some point you may have a _lot_ of
content, howev it's not so much heavy as it is highly interactive.
------
colanderman
Proposal: extend Transfer-Encoding to allow gzip encoding of multiple
responses in a persistent connection as if they were a single stream. This
way, a browser which expects to request multiple pages from a site can keep
the connection open, and the repeated content on each page will be gzipped
into oblivion.
The problems I see is that this would require both server and browser support,
and that leaving persistent connections open for minutes could be problematic.
~~~
metageek
Doesn't SSL do compression? (Most good encryption systems do, because
compression strips out the redundant data that codebreakers need.) If so, you
should be able to do persistent connections over HTTPS, and get the whole
stream compressed.
------
waqf
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2195280>
~~~
Terretta
Chuckle ... Clean URL blogger doesn't fixup his own URLs!
------
dennisgorelik
It looks like URL of that article is case-insensitive and page does not
specify canonical URL.
Both:
[http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/javascript/BreakingTheWebWithH...](http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/javascript/BreakingTheWebWithHashBangs)
and:
[http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/javascript/breakingthewebwithh...](http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/javascript/breakingthewebwithhashbangs)
render the same content, and <link rel="canonical"> does not exist in source
code of that page.
------
billswift
Hash bangs obviously aren't the only way to break web pages; has anyone else
noticed that the current Google homepage has broken the keyboard shortcuts, at
least in Firefox? You can't (or at least I can't) access the menu with the Alt
key now.
~~~
metageek
WFM. (Firefox, 64-bit Linux nightly build.)
------
carbonx
Did they do any sort of beta testing on this before they rolled it out?
------
nathansobo
Please. I for one am using the fragment hack to build a richer user experience
on a widely available platform. The interactions I am building wouldn't be
possible without it (or the HTML 5 pushState replaceState equivalents).
Rendering my content on the client in JavaScript makes me a lot more
productive, and the interactions I facilitate on my site would be impossible
without it. The implementation choices of a single web site cannot "break the
web". I trust that the author of this post has a lot of experience and also
valuable things to say about building accessible sites, but accessibility and
graceful degradation aren't the only god in my pantheon.
------
eapen
Even worse, they dont appropriately use the canonical meta tag.
------
kehers
In the first place, y should a news publishing site even use hash-bang url? U
r not a web app built on ajax
------
MichaelApproved
> _Being dependent on perfect JavaScript_
You're almost always dependent on perfect code to keep your site running, be
it server side or client side. If code breaks on the server side you're just
as screwed.
~~~
shabda
Server side code runs on one machine. Client side needs to run on many
OS/Browser/Plugins combo.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bad mouse took down a network, and almost got us banned - bcaa7f3a8bbc
https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/5hzvx3/bad_mouse_took_down_a_network_and_almost_got_us/
======
luizfzs
From the looks of it, the issue could have been avoided by writing the invoice
in a proper way, like: replaced cables that have been bitten by a mouse (or
mice).
To be honest, from the title, I also thought it was the device mouse that
affected the network, not a rodent.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Congress Introduces Bill to Ban Federal Agencies from Using Facial Recognition - elsewhen
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qj4jkx/congress-introduces-bill-to-ban-federal-agencies-from-using-facial-recognition
======
president
It's not so cut and dried. Some of this tech will benefit society by
identifying bad actors and putting them behind bars. In this day and age, you
need to upgrade your stack to keep up with the criminals. If privacy and civil
liberties are a concern, figure out a legal way to ensure they are not
encroached upon. Don't just ban it outright.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Azure Service Fabric now on Linux - balakk
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/azureservicefabric/2016/06/16/service-fabric-preview-on-linux/
======
vonklaus
I respect Microsofts push towards reculturing into a developer first company.
They have open sourced a lot of code and seem to be making a conscious effort
towards transparency. Chakra, VSCode, Azure I think even powershell. Obviously
this is market-driven but I think it is a genuine culture shift and I have
noticed this consistently for ~1 year. As a big incumbent company I am sure
someone will step in and say they are still doing x or not doing y-- sure,
however I and I am sure many others, respect the decisions they have made to
be a more inclusive company and it seems genuine.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Scientific data analysis on a high-performance cluster using Free Pascal - pjmlp
http://ziotom78.blogspot.com/2015/01/lfi-data-analysis-with-fpc.html
======
nurettin
>Both make an heavy use of templates, so that they cannot be compiled
separately but instead literally copied into each of my source file by the C++
preprocessor (the details are not exact, but this should provide a fair
representation of what’s really happening)
it really doesn't. Template resolution and preprocessing step are separate,
both performed by different binaries in your toolchain.
~~~
jabl
If you wanna nitpick, at least GCC doesn't use a separate preprocessor binary
anymore, the preprocessor is integrated into the compiler binary.
You're of course correct in that preprocessing and template resolution are
separate steps in the compilation process, but his underlying point still
stands, namely that a large reason why C++ compilation is slow is the need to
include reams and reams of code.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Sad 'Victory' – On Eich Stepping Down - jimrhoskins
http://www.teamrarebit.com/blog/2014/04/03/a-sad-victory/
======
moskie
Well, this is silly of them.
They were being naive if they took the approach they took, while thinking that
the only form of success (or intended result) would be Eich saying the things
they wanted. Eich stepping down was just as likely.
... especially given the fact that they _explicitly_ suggested he step down in
another post. They are being very confusing here.
The main thing this latest post is missing is introspection.
------
CocaKoala
It's very weird to read a post saying "oh man, it's such a bummer that Eich
had to step down; this totally isn't what we wanted and we're shocked that it
had to come to this" and then look at the sidebar and see "Recent Posts: Five
Reasons Brendan Eich should Step Down", which is a post calling for literally
the thing they claim to be bummed about.
------
angersock
_" The fact it ever went this far is really disturbing to us."_
Well, bit late for all of that, right?
_" We are software developers and we’d much rather spend our time building
great software and helping people than being involved in a horrible mess like
this."_
Well, then why didn't they? Why didn't they help people instead of peevishly
fanning the flames?
I hope that I never have the opportunity of working with these folks, because
I'm not sure I would be able to keep such duplicitous company: at once both
helping rabble-rouse a mob on an unrelated and non-professional capacity (in
the strictest sense) and _then_ for lacking the backbone to own up to the
fruits of their labors.
I'd rather work with somebody who's got the guts to say "Well, we got the
bastard out--now, let's file a lawsuit."
At least that shows true passion.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NASA Can't Explain What Made This Strange, Deep Hole on Mars - SirLJ
http://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-doesn-t-know-what-made-this-deep-hole-on-mars
======
RikNieu
I'm no expert, but that looks like a gas pocket of some sort ruptured, created
a cavity and collapsed in on itself. Kind like those methane craters in
Siberia.
------
Black-Plaid
This looks like it has to be a collapse of some void below.
There's no ejecta around the crater, or any of the other impact signs.
------
valuearb
Cool image. Im guessing some more alien conspiracy theories will arise from
it.
~~~
cr0sh
Alien deep pit mining...?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask: Anyone else annoyed with digital software downloads? - andrewhillman
As someone who formats their laptop 1-2 times per year I am completely frustrated with digital software downloads. I want the actual disk so I can reload the software without worrying that I will not be able to reinstall the purchased software without a hassle. Have you seen the price of photoshop? ouch! With digital software downloads, do activation keys have a life span? Three times? Anyone else want to bring back the physical disk?
======
iKnowKungFoo
Nope, sorry. When I download software install packages, I tend to back them up
myself. First it was to CDs, then DVDs and now on my Drobo and Dropbox.
The activation keys generally do not expire as long as the activation servers
exists. Older software that never activated online works so long as you have
the correct key.
I've been in a no-clutter kick for the last few years. In fact, I just moved &
emptied out my storage unit into my new garage. I'll be spending the next few
months selling off a wall of boxes of books, CDs and movies. The less physical
media around the better.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using drones, scientists found 8,000 more orangutans in Sumatra - Jerry2
http://howtoconserve.org/2016/03/11/drones-orangutan-conservation/
======
therobot24
I got the opportunity to spend a few days in Bukit Lawang in North Sumatra and
would highly recommend it to anyone traveling in the South Pacific.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Font Awesome 4.6 released – accessibility improvements and 23 new icons - fortawesome
https://articles.fortawesome.com/font-awesome-4-6-released-d7213342698a
======
emdd
This is great. There is a slowly growing emphasis on accessibility in the web,
and tools like this make it just a little bit easier!
Tangentially, anyone with good resources for WCAG (and probably ADA, in the
near future) compliance, I would love any help.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to make $800/mo from three lines of code - jmduke
http://jmduke.com/blog/2013/12/6/how-to-make-800mo-from-three-lines-of-code
======
lubujackson
That's a very programmer way of looking at it. People don't pay for
highlighting, they are paying for more traffic from an ad. Ultimately, they
are paying for all the other stuff on the website that gets people to show up,
view ads and click on them. I guess the point is revenue != labor, but you
should mention why this is possible in this case.
~~~
devhinton
What you say the article is missing is the whole point of the post. This is
not a programmer way of looking at it on the whole. In fact, I think the goal
of this post is to change programmers "way of looking at it'". 'this is only
three lines of code' is a programmer's viewpoint. But it is only a hook into
the post to grab programmers and then the post goes on to shift to a
practical, business viewpoint. (this post changes the programmer's view point
who reads the post)
In terms of
'People don't pay for highlighting, they are paying for more traffic from an
ad Ultimately, they are paying for all the other stuff on the website that
gets people to show up, view ads and click on them.'
Uhhh dur. And the post even addresses this:
' There are a lot of lessons one can learn from this anecdote: the art of the
graceful upsell, the underlying value of 37Signal's brand/traffic that lets
them charge $200/month for a glorified <li> element. '
Note, "the underlying value of 37Signal's brand/traffic".
------
raldi
You can pay $1M for just two lines of delta:
House address: 123 Main Street
- Owner: Joe Previous
+ Owner: You
------
mmcconnell1618
Actually, without significant traffic volume which means customers willing to
pay for highlighted listing the three lines of code would not by themselves
produce $800/month in value. This is like saying that a movie theater can make
$1,000 more in 2 seconds by changing the popcorn price. It's all about having
a large audience first, then small changes can have a significant impact.
~~~
gwright
Of course. That was the entire point of the article, to point out that you
should not use technical difficulty as your primary data point for setting
your selling price.
The author purposely picked out an example where the technical difficulty was
trivial to illustrate that the value to the customer is _NOT_ related to the
technical difficulty of the feature.
------
jes
The article author makes an important point. The value of your product or
service to a customer often has little if anything to do with the prices and
investments you made to create it.
------
raverbashing
Yes, it's not only 3 lines, you need the code that adds the class to the
elements
But it's an interesting analysis of value through the chain.
Whoever payed for the highlight, funnily enough is going to end up spending
_more_ since it's going to hire earlier than the others (in principle, on
average)
But they expect the $50 to pay for itself on the longer term
~~~
randomdata
On the other hand, I feel like I instinctively ignore blocks with a different
coloured background because they appear as being ads, so it may actually
produce the desired effect (by reducing the number of applicants).
~~~
sp332
It's not just ads, but anything that visually sets itself apart from the rest
of the content on the page. This includes sidebars next to articles and even
headings at the top of the screen, if they look too different. It's called
banner blindness
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness)
I had to deal with it in a product where the current location was shown in a
purple tab at the top of the screen. Users would consistently get lost
because, even when looking for location cues, they never read the text.
------
testrecord
Well yeah, 3 lines of front end CSS. But there's a bit more back end logic
that goes into it. But I do like the concept of relatively small yet
profitable changes.
------
johnmacintyre
It's a lot more than the 3 lines of code suggested. It's still very very
small, only a few hours work, but it's not a 3 minute, 3 line change.
And in reality, that $50/month price may rise in order to keep the number of
highlighted lines infrequent enough to still stand out.
------
gesman
It's like wondering how much would it take to replace the three letters: "TIM"
with letters "ROL" on a device?
$5,000-10,000+
Do the exercise and share the results.
The keyword is: "TIMEX"
------
kenkam
Bit sensational though, it's not just those 3 lines. You'll also have to add
the option to the sign up form, bit more overhead in testing, etc.
It's not just 3 lines is what I'm trying to say.
------
NinethSense
But it is for the 'business concept', and not for changing code customers are
paying. Code is already written, it is just a matter for switch-on and switch-
off ... which is again max. 3 minutes job.
How many times companies sell same product? They are not rewriting the code,
just sending you a copy - zero effort
------
johnrob
3 lines?
What about the lines of code in order to control the feature? Code to charge
customers who use the feature? Running analysis to test different shades of
the color and how well they perform? What about time spent on the phone and
sending emails answering questions from prospective and current customers?
~~~
crindy
I think you missed the point. The point is that although it's technically very
easy to 'highlight some job postings on the list, that simple upsell can
generate hundreds of dollars a month.
This was not intended to be a literal guide on how to make $800 in 3 lines of
code.
~~~
johnrob
_How to make $800 /mo from three lines of code_
The title was just link bait then?
------
aespinoza
You are missing the whole point. What they are selling is people's attention.
And they have it. If I did the same thing even for free, I doubt I would get
as much hits as they do. Once you have people's attention then you can try
stuff like this. This is a pretty stupid post. Honestly. It lacks a point.
~~~
gwright
Did you read the entire post? It ends with:
> But the most important lesson -- and the most easily digestable -- never
> confuse technical difficulty for demonstrated value.
~~~
aespinoza
I did. And that is exactly why I say there is no point to the article.
------
javis
When browsing the ads on
[http://weworkremotely.com](http://weworkremotely.com), I have to force myself
to read the highlighted listings, otherwise my brain just ignores them.
I guess it's the product of years of ignoring the ads on Google.
~~~
cdmoyer
I wonder if that makes you more conscious of them.
I'm thinking about a study cited in Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow[1] where the
participants did better on a test when the questions where in a blurry font. I
believe it was suggested that being forced to exert mental effort to read the
questions forced their brain into "actual thinking mode" as opposed to
"pattern recognition" mode.
ie. If we know it's probably not an ad, but it looks like an ad, is it a more
effective bit of non-ad? (well, it is an ad, but it's an ad we want to see.)
[1][http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-
Kahneman/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-
Kahneman/dp/0374533555)
------
poolpool
The point of the article is that small technology changes can provide
disporportionate value to the customer and your company (The best types of
changes to make) and most commentors still feel it necessary to mention that
its not _really_ 3 lines of code.
------
visakanv
Clearly, this is something that people pay money for, and that counts for
something. I never would, though. It looks like a losing game to me. Surely
there are more interesting, compelling, inspiring ways to reach out to people?
------
cdr
Step 1: Be as well known as 37signals
Step 2: 3 lines of code
Step 3: Profit
------
bushido
There are probably a few profound lesson for aspiring entrepreneurs and
developers somewhere in this find, beyond it's profitability.
------
melvinmt
Google makes _billions_ with highlighting text on a yellow background. Not
sure how many lines of css it took them, however.
------
caxap
And if everyone starts paying to highlight their ads, then those that don't
pay will stand out.
~~~
gus_massa
May I paraphrase patio11 (
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4477088](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4477088)
) ...
If everyone want’s to highlight their add, then double your price. If everyone
still want’s to highlight their add, then double your price again.
------
LekkoscPiwa
I don't understand why it is currently #1 on HN. In newspapers it surely
doesn't cost them much more to put your ad in bold. Probably less than a cent.
But hell yeah they will charge in the thousands if the newspaper happens to be
WSJ weekend edition real estate section.
Obviously, you pay for the amount of eye-balls seeing that ad. Changing the
color may result in thousands of people more seeing the ad. The cost is in the
know-how to get these thousands of eye-balls to see your content. Not for the
color.
Without a platform as hugely popular as 37-signals the programmer could change
colors all day long on his 'localhost:3000' and that wouldn't be worth $800.
That would be worth $0.0.
The premise of the article is completely false.
~~~
crindy
I thought the article was just trying to make a point about charging based on
how much work it takes vs charging what people will pay.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Silent Disco - gorm
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Silent_disco
======
gigorbust
If anyone has any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them!
George Silent Storm Sound System www.silentdis.co/main
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My Drop Shipping Business' Fulfillment Process - spiredigital
http://www.ecommercefuel.com/drop-shipping-fulfillment/
======
spiredigital
There are a ton of shopping carts available for "traditional" warehouse-based
merchants, but hardly any designed with the drop shipper in mind, which is
crazy given the huge number of ships that utilize drop shipping.
If anyone is thinking about coding up a new cart - or a variation of an open
source one - you might want to consider a drop shipping specific cart. I know
I'd be really interested....
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cotton totes are pretty much the worst replacement for plastic bags - Reedx
https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotton-totes-might-be-worse-than-plastic/
======
WheelsAtLarge
No wonder people freeze and change nothing to help the environment since the
solutions are too hard to figure out. Who would have known that a paper bag
may be worse to use than a plastic one? Or that a cotton reusable is even
worse.
But the real got-you is that we can't be sure because we can't account for all
variables.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Twitter and VMware cut pay for remote workers - sna1l
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-11/vmware-twitter-cut-pay-for-remote-workers-fleeing-bay-area
======
matrixagent
Interesting, I've always wondered about the very different approaches of
Basecamp and GitLab when it comes to remote salaries. Basecamp pays the same,
GitLab always (as far as I know) followed the same idea as Twitter and VMware
are now doing. I think I prefer the same pay for the same work, regardless of
where you are – but as long as cost of living is so ridiculously different
that's probably not really feasible. I'd also like that to change, though.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Which license for a language for take over the world? - mamcx
So I'm ready to start serious with my toy language, and of course, I'm already thinking how will take over the world :).<p>So, I'm thinking which license? Is clear must be open source, and because I wanna it to be usefull for iOS and closed source project not GPL, but which else ?
======
rudi_mk
Try MIT. It's dead simple, very open and works for the scenarios you've
listed.
Details -
[https://choosealicense.com/licenses/mit/](https://choosealicense.com/licenses/mit/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why I Still Use Windows 95 - edw519
http://www.andrew-turnbull.net/tech/windows95.html
======
ctkrohn
There's a definite pleasure in using old, well-designed pieces of technology
that were state-of-the-art in their time and have managed to remain
competitive with newer equipment. I love my record player, I still use a high-
quality CRT, I ride a steel bike, and I print documents with a mid-90s HP
LaserJet. Many of you would cite LISP, a 50-year old language, as a perfect
example of this phenomenon.
Windows 95, however, really doesn't strike me as one of those things.
~~~
serhei
Well, there _is_ a reason why it sold six kazillion copies back in the day.
Unless you think the reason was that it was hyped to high heaven in a
gigantastic advertising avalanche.
------
dcurtis
I assume he also drives a model T, writes with a fountain pen, and uses a cell
phone from 1995 as well?
Seriously, though, the advances from Windows 95 to Vista are less about
improving the "tool" and more about improving the experience of using the
computer. I don't think you can really call a computer a "tool" anymore,
anyway. It is the communication, entertainment, and productivity center of
many people's lives. It serves far more value than a hammer or a pen. It has
the ability to morph into practically anything. Back in 1995, when the real
value of a computer was still somewhat ambiguous, people called them tools
because that was the closest metaphor to a a familiar paradigm. Today, the
computer is the paradigm.
The argument this guy uses is kind of stupid and reminds me of the short-
sighted, extremely stubborn attitude of the most geeky people I know. He
doesn't like Internet Explorer 4, so he refuses to use an operating system
based on IE. While IE 4 was a terrible internet browser, it served Windows
pretty well; using the idea of back and forward buttons for browsing
files/folders is still used today in Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. Sure,
Windows 98 sucked at it, but that's exactly what Windows XP improved on.
(Arguably, Windows Vista improved on this as well.) That's why people
upgraded.
In the end, by using Windows 95, he is just torturing himself. He might gain
pleasure from the novelty of writing stories like this one and getting strange
reactions from people, but in the end, his experience of using his computer is
just... terrible.
~~~
tomjen
There are still people who swear to a fountain pen. Not all old tech is
useless.
~~~
dcurtis
I love fountain pens. The idea is that a ball point pen is far more practical
for every day use.
~~~
DougBTX
I think the advantages of a ball point pen were more to do with having the ink
reservoir inside the pen, rather than the ball point itself. There are plenty
of pens with internal reservoirs on the market, whether ball, fountain or
fibre, I've been using one of these[1] almost continuously for the past 6-7
years.
[1] [http://www.amazon.co.uk/stainless-fountain-cartridges-
conver...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/stainless-fountain-cartridges-convertible-
bottled/dp/B000JTPEAS/)
------
edb
This article reminds me of my father. He still uses what we call "lefebvre
books" to do his business's payroll by pen. When I was younger, I thought he
was an idiot. Eventually he rationalized it to me for long enough that I
thought it was charming and really interesting that his business is like a
snapshot of how things were run in the past.
Right now, his company grew to more than 20 employees and he's selling it
because his tools and methods don't work in his changing environment and he
refuses to adapt to new tools.
Don't get me wrong, he's by no means unhappy, but his business is no longer
running at it's full potential. I think a comparison can be drawn here. I
believe that your output is a function of your methods AND tools.. I don't
care who you are, you can't build facebook in DOS.
If your environment is changing and you still want to excel in that
environment, I believe that you have to adapt.
------
lpgauth
I wonder why he doesn't use Linux, seems he could build whatever he needs and
forget the bloatware of windows. Specially with a distribution like Gentoo he
could build a custom system and not have to have the technology drawbacks of
Windows 95.
~~~
rufo
That was my first thought as well: "Hasn't he ever heard of Linux?"
But then again, if he's got all the apps he needs, running as well as he needs
them, and isn't bothered by being unable to run newer applications (which he
pretty clearly states at the end of the essay): well, more power to him, I
guess...
~~~
brandonkm
Exactly. This is definitely one of those cases of use whatever works for you.
I really can't fathom using windows 95, but reading over his reasons for doing
so it seems like those are valid reasons for him. Still makes for an
interesting read on a os no one ever really talks about anymore.
------
petercooper
I admire and salute this guy. He's one of those that keep our whole geek
society interesting. He's a bit like a writer who still uses a manual
typewriter rather than a word processor. It's very charming.
(On further browsing of his site, he seems an interesting chap. These mid-late
90s style sites chock full of various types of content are far more
interesting than most of the vapid personal sites nowadays that have nothing
besides blog entries.)
------
drm237
Every time a new (microsoft) OS is realeased, you find tons of people who say
that it isn't any better and there's no need to upgrade. Then a few years
later everyone says, "you're still using previous_version?". (Vista actually
seems like it may be the exception...)
It seems to me that this is an extreme case of the above situation. This guy
has something that works for him. I would say works well, but until you've
used something for a while and understand how it enhances your productivity,
you really don't see the error of your old ways.
Some are asking why he doesn't install Linux. My thought is that if one of
your decisions when choosing an OS is maintaining compatibility with your DOS
games, you're probably not an ideal candidate for linux. Note that it doesn't
matter if you Can play DOS games on linux; it's just a completely different
mindset.
------
deathbyzen
At first, I was looking for the publishing date hoping I would find April 1st
somewhere, but I guess not...
------
kaos
Win95 c'mon, lets help this guy with other cooler ways to getting attention
and being "different".
------
toki
andrew turnbull is completely right. i used windows 95 too, as long as
possible (2006).
windows 95 has many good things that the modern version of windows have lost
or never had:
\- lightweight (Doesnt even use memory <128 MB)
\- very fast
\- total cost of ownership = 0
\- functional (office, opera, etc: everything works somehow)
\- easily replaceable (ebay)
\- robust (works even with damaged hardware - somehow)
\- security (through obscurity)
\- i have an idea how it works (in modern version of windows i have somehow
lost the overview)
\- no need to update (just accept how the system is)
\- free of distractions (no widgets, sidebars, audoupdates)
:)
~~~
gscott
The changes that MS makes now seem to be just for selling new versions. I use
Windows 2000, it is handy, no Internet registration scheme where they track
your usage, and so on. When I was younger I wanted to run the newst thing out
there and would change often. Now I stick with whatever works best until it
breaks.
------
felix_t
Assuming he is using it, how exactly is he running Firefox 3 (he has an entry
about it's release on his blog) on Win95? I haven't tried it but the OS isn't
showing a message and then denies the possibility to install FF3? And what
kind of productivity do you get with, let's say, 6 or 7 year's old software? I
wonder, really, what kind of development/usage is he attributing to that
machine.
~~~
ctkrohn
Pre-Firefox Mozilla (what became Seamonkey) could be made to work on Windows
95... I was unfortunately forced to do so one time. You had to download a
couple extra drivers and install some updates from Microsoft, but it worked.
------
rcoder
I still have NT 4.0 install media around, and have even tossed it on an older
box a few times to remember what it was like back in the days when Windows
could be a decent developer OS.
Unfortunately, anything older than Win2k leaves you pretty much out of luck
for mobile computing (power management, WiFi, and display switching) as well
as most modern peripherals (USB support being notably lacking).
For even more retro fun, though, I recommend firing up a copy of Mac OS System
7 inside Basilisk II or SheepShaver -- even under emulation, it absolutely
_screams_ through day-to-day tasks.
------
mleonhard
I think the best reason for him to switch from Win95 to WinXP is Office 2007.
------
Tichy
Security Updates?
~~~
petercooper
Windows 95 is so old that I'd doubt (though I might be wrong!) that its
vulnerabilities are being actively exploited anymore. WinNuke (
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinNuke> ) was the most annoying, and in the
late 90s you were guaranteed to be nuked within a few minutes of getting
online without a firewall.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Profile of Lars Bak (2009) - callum85
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/03775904-177c-11de-8c9d-0000779fd2ac.html
======
octetta
I've grown curious about Bak's implementation of Smalltalk (OOVM A/S) that was
mentioned in this article. Has anyone here had a chance to tinker with it?
~~~
igouy
Unfortunately not. afaik the technology disappeared into Java focused
Esmertec.
There are a few papers and slide-decks:
"Design, implementation, and evaluation of the Resilient Smalltalk embedded
platform" ====>
[http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.84....](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.84.7354&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
"A New Approach to Developing Robust Embedded Software" ====>
[http://lore.ua.ac.be/Events/VM/BE.pdf](http://lore.ua.ac.be/Events/VM/BE.pdf)
~~~
munificent
Kasper Lund's thesis is about OOVM and it goes into great detail about all
sorts of parts of it:
[http://verdich.dk/kasper/RES.pdf](http://verdich.dk/kasper/RES.pdf)
------
Dorian-Marie
The comic they talk about:
[https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome](https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome)
------
davidw
Interesting article, touching on some of the differences between the US and
Denmark.
Here's the other Lars Bak:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak)
in case anyone's curious.
------
applecore
It's pretty clear; browsers were too slow to run ads.
~~~
vonklaus
I'm pretty cynical, but I just can't believe that was the only/major reason.
In 2009, I have to believe that browsers could run advertisments pretty well.
I am sure it was a great ancilliary benefit for them, but I think it has much
more to do with the apple approach to tech.
You can keep people in your ecosystem if you use a chrome browser, an android
phone/tablet, and author all your documents with google drive. Except instead
of the hub being a mac computer, the hub is your chrome browser which you use
to search, create documents, go for entertainments and purchase products. If
chrome is ultra fast, it can handle and process all your data and give you a
great UX as well.
IDk, I guess you are right though, the faster you surf the more adverts you
see I guess.
~~~
justinlardinois
Exactly. Google's game for the last half decade or so has been setting up an
OS-agnostic ecosystem. That's why they have (almost) their full suite of apps
on iOS too, even though they have the Android platform.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Hacker News, automagically organized - bravura
http://metaoptimize.com/projects/autotag/hackernews/
======
tsycho
Awesome stuff! I tried a couple of searches, and the search ranking looks
decently good (at first glance, atleast).
I also like the fading of text as the results become less relevant.
What kind of relevance algorithms are you using? Since this site is targeted
at hackers, who tend to like more control, you could expose some of the
parameters and allow users to tweak their relevance.
For instance, sliders that let you determine the importance of article age, #
of comments in the article, karma points of article, avg karma points of
readers, and of course the pattern match counts...
~~~
bravura
_I tried a couple of searches, and the search ranking looks decently good (at
first glance, atleast)._
Its based solely upon the text in the comment thread. I was actually pretty
surprised this worked as well as it did. I am currently crawling outlinks,
which should hopefully improve relevancy even more, as well as discover more
topics.
_Since this site is targeted at hackers, who tend to like more control, you
could expose some of the parameters and allow users to tweak their relevance._
Rather than drilling specifically into Hacker News, I'm more interested in
exposing functionality to other hackers by building an API that will allow
them to auto-organize their sites too. The one issue is that indexing is a
batch, off-line process, and most APIs are built in a real-time, on-demand
setting.
------
petercooper
The other day I though how cool it would be to have a Web service that could
crawl your site and auto categorize all of your pages (or at least help you to
do it). As ever, turns out someone is on the case ;-) Nice work! I think
there's definitely a wider audience for this technology.
~~~
bravura
_I think there's definitely a wider audience for this technology._
What audiences do you see for this technology?
Also, how would you expand the audience for this technology?
Possible options:
* Auto-crawl content and automagically organize it, without involving the content owner. (The Google approach).
* Build a turn-key solution that people can upload their content and get the index returned to them. (An API approach.)
* Talking to businesses directly, and make one on one deals. (An enterprise/B2B approach.)
~~~
hendler
There are lots of uses for this, but my main advice is to not loose these
three things:
1\. advantage of relevancy within specific domains. The page-rank was a huge
value-add to relevancy over other search. But internet wide is now too
ambitious. HN is a great corpus because the content is already vetted by a
community. The work of integrating other specialized communities content can
give density and relevancy.
2\. ease-of-use in integration. The less configuration to use this API, the
better. Autotagging, done well, is very useful. I have a lot of ideas around
this if you'd like to chat some time.
3\. ease-of-use interface . Combining browsable, faceted search with NLP is, I
think, the sweet spot between getting lots of relevant results, but allowing
for discovery.
~~~
techbio
Mostly #1, but agreed with all. Especially so as to leverage a managed topic
domain into a transferable form of domain knowledge.
------
hendler
Using Python's NLTK and Lucene can produce results like this. I wrote
something similar using Wordnet, PHP/Zend Lucene, and and Freeling (C++ NLP)
for NewsCup.
I think what makes this project interesting to me is the interface and quality
of search results. They show a really good understanding how to use NLP and
search in conjunction.
Nice work.
------
jcroberts
This is not a complaint, but simply a bug report.
With javascript disabled, if you type something in the provided text box and
hit enter, you end up with an error message:
Not Found
The requested URL /projects/autotag/php/search.php was not found on this server.
I just figured you'd want to know.
~~~
adammichaelc
I have JS enabled and am getting the same error.
------
locopati
Very cool - can you add dates to the lists of articles, be nice to see how old
an article is (or maybe color code the list to provide two axes of relevance)?
~~~
pudquick
Agreed on this point - it was the first thing I looked for.
I was hoping to use this site as an alternate view into HN to find semi-recent
submissions covering specific topics.
In addition, it might be nice to expose the popularity of the article somehow.
Something that got 24+ votes is probably going to be more relevant to me than
something with only 2.
------
techbio
I love this. I am working on a related project (the result, not HN) inspired
by Paul Graham's Naive Bayes Spam Filter.
If you have a moment, I would like to hear more about your architecture and
interface. It is responsive, clean, accurate, and multi-device ready, and
clearly an implementation to be replicated.
~~~
bravura
Wow, you seriously have a lot of side-projects (<http://techbio.org/>). Drop
me an email, and we'll talk.
~~~
techbio
Your contact page quickly led me to here:
<http://pypi.python.org/pypi/topia.termextract/>
and: <http://www.metaoptimize.com/qa>
Great stuff.
------
hipcat
I appreciate your work on this (in the past I've just used google with the
site option). As a nitpick, one thing I'd do is remove the fluff from the
bottom of the page and give an indicator that the large box is for a search
term (as opposed to several lines of text which is what it looks like). In
fact, a normal sized box would work just fine.
I realize that there is a line that instructs you to enter text in the box,
but to me in got lost in the noise of the page (another reason for getting rid
of the extra details at the bottom). On the results page, it'd be nice if you
showed the results foremost and the related topics as a sidebar. I want my
results, and only if I don't find what I'm looking for do I want to know the
code's opinion of where I should try to go next.
Anyways, like I said those are just nitpicks. Nice job.
------
nck4222
Very very cool.
A couple problems though. For terms with spaces in them it creates a tag for
each word. For example "stack overflow" has tags for "stack" and "overflow",
which aren't all that useful (although yes the tag stackoverflow is created):
[http://metaoptimize.com/projects/autotag/hackernews/term/5a/...](http://metaoptimize.com/projects/autotag/hackernews/term/5a/stack-
overflow.html)?
What would be a solution to this? Parse the text so each token includes the
first space it encounters and see if that multi word token occurs frequently?
The other problem is stripping out punctuation. The tag c++ doesn't exist,
neither does c#. Not sure how you'd include relevant punctuation and strip out
the rest.
------
pchristensen
Awesome! Gabriel, could you please get these search results into Duck Duck Go?
~~~
kno
Nice, some folks will demote you here for any reason.
------
jackfoxy
Nice work. This gets a place on my bookmark bar.
When can you get it current?
Minor note: found that F# does not index.
------
naner
Pretty cool. The only goof I found was that it thinks that Emacs is plural for
'Emac'.
------
rgrieselhuber
Very nicely done. Would love to see some stats about how long this took, in
terms of crawling, indexing, etc. time.
Also, would love to hear more about the tools behind it.
------
r11t
Feature request: Ability to browse list of existing tags would be great apart
from the auto-complete feature.
------
bigbang
Cool. How do you find the related topics to a given topic? What api do you use
for that? Google suggestions?
------
HNer
Could be really interesting for creating silios within sites for automagically
creating navigation bars whereby all the related nav links were relevant to
the page currently being viewed, removing unrelated clutter and offering
navigation for a site much more relevant.
------
fabiandesimone
Wow! Excellent stuff!
Just added it to my Utilities bookmark folder.
Congrats!
------
ifesdjeen
great! i've been working on the same exact thing for a month already! good
job! :) glad to know that my idea existed in someone else's mind.
------
ceejayoz
No minecraft tag?
~~~
seancron
The index is out of date. Minecraft wasn't around in October 2009.
~~~
Grouper
It would be interesting to see what new tags pop over the years. And maybe
trends in tag usage etc.
For example, to see a google trend style chart for Ruby vs Python tags.
------
webXL
Nice work. Why does it stop at Oct. 13, 2009?
~~~
bravura
Mike Cheng (<http://searchyc.com>) gave me this data dump a year ago. I am
currently crawling the rest of hacker news, as well as outlinks, to fill out
this index.
Consider the site right now a proof-of-concept. I'm trying to gauge people's
interest level, and get feedback.
------
finemann
Awesome work mate :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask YC: What tools do you use for performance testing your web-application? - mattjung
I would like to do some performance tests on my application before getting beta. Do you know any good tools, preferably open-source, to measure response times during concurrent access? I tried out openSTA, but find it unstable and rather akward to use.
======
gscott
My problems with performance has always been bad scripting technique that I
picked up from code samples. Have some friends all use your web app at the
same time. If your system can handle 5 to 10 people at one time without
slowing down then likely you are going to be fine with more people on. I used
to have performance problems all of the time. Once I finally got tired of the
problems I had a friend review my code and he showed me what I was doing
wrong. Now I have about 300 people on the system in any given hour and no
issues.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
CSSbutton Generator - franze
http://www.cssbutton.me/
======
jayfuerstenberg
Very nice!
What does the 'font stack' property do?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Earth-Size, Habitable Zone Planet Found Hidden in Early NASA Kepler Data - vishesh92
https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/news/1637/earth-size-habitable-zone-planet-found-hidden-in-early-nasa-kepler-data/
======
rurban
I thought the nearest one, only 4 light years away, Proxima Centauri b is
quite habitable, with water and such. Best and nearest. Easier for a trip than
300.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Autofill: What web devs should know, but don’t - callumlocke
http://blog.cloudfour.com/autofill-what-web-devs-should-know-but-dont/
======
Jaruzel
I am seriously uncomfortable storing any personal information in my Browsers
settings. I have absolutely no guarantee that the data will not be compromised
somewhere along the line. Yes it's more cumbersome to manually enter my credit
card info every time I make a purchase, but I feel having the details in one
place only - on the actual card - is the safest option. SO even if this became
a standard in browsers I'm not sure the tech-savvy will use it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What do you care about most when looking for a new job? - onlyrealcuzzo
======
tbirrell
In no particular order...
Flexibility. It is a hard 8-5? Or can I swing it either way an hour or two if
need be?
Commute. It needs to be a reasonable drive in the morning. Work already takes
enough of my day, I don't want to sacrifice the rest to the gods of traffic.
Pay. It needs to be reasonable. Obviously.
Benefits. This gets the honor of picking up any slack in the pay department.
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
Curious, do you prefer working in the office or remote? Just because you
mentioned flexibility and commute being so important.
~~~
tbirrell
A mix. I don't have an office/remote choice anymore, so flexibility manifests
more along the lines of I chose which 40 hours I spend working. 4 long days
and a half day are not uncommon.
------
Morgangeek
For me,
#1 people, as I want to work with people who care about what they are doing,
and want to work with people I like working with. My strategy for that is to
ask for private discussion with future colleague before accepting the job.
Then I ask what they like in the job and what they don't like, how they work,
what is boring and what is not, why they stay / why they would leave.
#2 continuous improvement : I want everyone to be concerned by documentation,
automation, best practices, fixing root cause of issues rather than
consequences. I want to work with people who have sufficient balls to say 'No'
to stupid orders and take the time to improve something rather than using
quick and dirty solutions. I want to see rights decisions being taken.
#3 focus: a good place to work is a place where we can concentrate, and where
context switching and interruptions are avoided by everyone.
#4 flexibility, transparency and trust : I want to be able to work without
wasting too much time with processes, interruptions, lack of permissions etc.
a place where we can trust people enough to give them the ability to give
their best and have control on the how-to. everyone should be able to see the
important decisions. There should not be room for information hiding and
obscurity. People should be able to tell what is not ok without being afraid
to be fired
#5 strategy : a place where strategy is clear, everyone work together and have
a common language, a common set of best practices they follow, the know why
they do stuff, they are all aware of company decisions and strategy, why some
decisions are taken, and decisions make sense (no need to waste time and money
on useless process and tools that are counter productive)
#6 learning : a good place to learn new hard and soft skills
#7 extra advantages : laptop, internet, home working, transportation, pay,
trainings etc help to decide between multiple jobs opportunities
------
yahn007
For me, people are the most important. Unfortunately haven't figured out a way
to figure out if this is a match until the in-person interview. Some companies
are overly introverted or big into competition and accountability. I usually
mesh more with an extroverted, relaxed, "mistakes are okay, just learn from
them" crowd.
Flexibility is #2. Prefer to work in the office over remote, but like to have
the option for either. That way I can see the family a couple times a year and
use my vacation to actually vacation.
#3, since I prefer the office and live in Los Angeles is commute.
#4 is pay.
Benefits are basically the same everywhere. But I wish Kaiser insurance was
more popular here...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook sinks as Nasdaq scrambles to square trades - nextstep
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/net-us-facebook-struggle-idUSBRE84J0D620120521
======
joezydeco
_"As the stock fell, there was a long list of questions -- ranging from
whether the underwriters priced the shares too high..."_
I understand there needs to be a fine line between leaving money on the table
and having a pop at the open. But who is the IPO process supposed to _really_
benefit? If it's Facebook, then thumbs up for pricing it just right. If it's
the underwriters and insiders, then thumbs up for pricing it just right.
~~~
malandrew
So true, quite frankly I'm so dumbfounded that IPOs are seen as a "gift" to
Wall Street so they can make some quick cash for contributing absolutely
nothing of value.
IPO is nothing more than a transaction between two conterparties that is
supposed to be mutually beneficial. The ideal IPO should go sideways. i.e. no
money left on table and investors aren't ripped off. It should continue to
move sideways until additional material facts emerge that cause it to be
revalued by investors.
I wish the WSJ, Bloomberg, and all the talking heads would celebrate a
sideways moving IPO as a success because that's what it is. Since they only
write from the other side of the table (investors) they can't consider
anything but walking away with free money like bandits as a "success", when
success should be getting equity at a fair price for the long term. Success
should come 1+ quarters from the IPO date.
~~~
joezydeco
It should be _more_ than ~1 quarter from the IPO date, because otherwise
you're playing the second game of Analyst Expectations. A bunch of outsiders
get to predict what will happen and then all tsk tsk when the outcome doesn't
happen as they say.
Thankfully some companies like Apple seem to sandbag what they're going to
predict instead of being super-optimistic and then get slapped around when
they miss by a $0.01/share.
~~~
malandrew
Totally agree, but as a slight counterpoint you need to remember that (1) they
recently missed earnings expectations due to weaker than expected mobile
advertising revenues, and (2) things move really fast in this industry. Given
how critical mobile revenues are going to be to Facebook's future, I'd say
these near-term material facts are relevant beyond a simple game of analyst
expectations.
~~~
joezydeco
Things move fast in _all_ industries these days, that's no excuse to
hypermonitor Facebook's earnings. If you were a JP Morgan shareholder, you'd
agree that surprises happen everywhere.
~~~
malandrew
True.
------
azundo
_"I basically told people they weren't going to get any, and luckily, it
proved to be a bust," the adviser said._
Seems like this type of attitude is part of the problem as well. If everyone
is assuming they will make a quick dollar, then certainly the underwriters
will price things high. If people are investing for long term value then you
can't exactly call FB a "bust" quite yet.
~~~
jinushaun
That's why investing in stocks is more like playing a game of poker. As the
saying goes, you don't play your hand (company performance), you play the
other players' hands (investor sentiment). So the raw performance of a company
is not as important a metric for deciding to buy or sell as the opinion of
other investors.
------
maybird
Is it too late to short the stock?
~~~
dpapathanasiou
Not at all: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-facebook-
shorts...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-facebook-shorts-
idUSBRE84H0NH20120518)
------
bartl
The article seems to have been deleted. I wonder why.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
More expensive Jira, Confluence and Bitbucket After Killing Mercurial Support - Svoka
https://www.atlassian.com/licensing/future-pricing/cloud-pricing/faqs
======
mister_hn
move to Phabricator!
[https://phacility.com/phabricator/](https://phacility.com/phabricator/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What's the difference between a Startup and a Small Business? - lionheart
So I've never been really clear on this.<p>What's the difference between starting a startup and starting a small business?<p>Is it just what you call it? Or is there some definable criteria? Does a startup have to have investors and a plan to sell the company? I don't think so. But then what's the difference?
======
pg
The difference between a shrub and a redwood seedling. A startup is a company
that is just passing through small.
~~~
lionheart
So is a bootstrapped company that isn't taking investors and never plans to be
sold but is planned to eventually grow to several million a year in revenue a
startup?
Edit: Several can be up to 10 to 20 million. Technically this is more than the
pay off to the founders of most successful startups, I believe.
~~~
gcheong
Another way to look at is the "Ben and Jerry's vs. Amazon" model:
<http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000056.html>
Sounds like you're more or less in the B&J camp.
~~~
lionheart
That's a great article. Thanks!
I am definitely in the B&J camp, and this article really got right exactly
what that means.
------
thesethings
I believe Paul Graham once defined the difference as: a startup wants to (but
doesn't necessarily) have "a significant exit," it either goes public, or gets
acquired for a large amount. A new small business that aims to be sustainable,
profitable, grow, etc, isn't a "startup," without the significant exit.
Unfortunately I remember hearing this in a video or audio interview, so it's
hard for me to search for this attribution.
~~~
pg
I wouldn't say this is the defining quality of a startup, but it is an almost
inevitable consequence of the defining quality, which is growth. A fast-
growing technology company will get acquisition offers, whether they seek them
or not. And one that grows sufficiently large will have to go public, whether
they want to or not.
~~~
gaius
_And one that grows sufficiently large will have to go public, whether they
want to or not._
I'm curious, what is your reasoning here? Because it will be acquired by a
public company (e.g. Microsoft or Google)? Or just because investors will want
a means to exit?
~~~
pg
There's an SEC rule that effectively forces you to go public once you have 500
shareholders.
[http://news.cnet.com/SEC-rule-may-nudge-Google-toward-
IPO/21...](http://news.cnet.com/SEC-rule-may-nudge-Google-toward-
IPO/2100-1030_3-5119504.html)
~~~
nickb
You can get an exemption for that though...
[http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2008/tc200...](http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2008/tc20081120_566312.htm)
------
noodle
the term startup tends to refer to growth-oriented new businesses. they can be
small businesses, but they're small businesses actively trying to become not
small.
------
cabalamat
A startup is a small business that has recently started up (duh), especially
in a technology sector, that is capable of scaling into something big.
~~~
mechanical_fish
The point about _scaling_ is key. If the business can't easily expand to
handle more than a limited number of customers, and/or can't meaningfully be
sold to someone else who can carry it on while the original owners lounge
around on a beach in Argentina, it's not a startup.
That helps us to see why my consulting company, the (independent) pizza place
on the corner, and your dentist's LLC are not considered "startups" -- and,
indeed, why the majority of small businesses are not startups. On the other
hand, once the pizza place starts selling franchises without limit, it becomes
much harder to distinguish it from a startup (although people probably
wouldn't use the word, because it's a tech sector word).
~~~
tptacek
37signals considers itself a small business, and has the scalability thing
licked.
~~~
mechanical_fish
Well, yes. Perhaps I should have explicitly mentioned Rule Zero: "You can call
your company whatever you want. It's yours." :)
I'm not sure it's possible to objectively identify a _startup_ , except
perhaps in retrospect. To borrow PG's fun metaphor for a moment: You can look
at a tall redwood and conclude that it was once a seedling, but you can't look
at a seedling and conclude that it is destined to be a tall redwood. And
that's not just because some seedlings get eaten by beetles before they can
grow tall. Sometimes seedlings end up living for many years as bonsai trees,
where they are carefully pruned and tended in their tiny indoor pots.
~~~
tptacek
You're right, but I wish we could get past the value judgements.
A startup is a company that just started.
A small business is a company that is small.
A large business is a company that is large.
Why do we have to build a speculative growth curve into the term "startup"?
~~~
mechanical_fish
_Why do we have to build a speculative growth curve into the term "startup"?_
Presumably because, if the _average_ small business with no net profits went
up to a VC and asked for $3m on a valuation of $100m, it would be laughed out
of the room.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but AFAIK the word "startup" was _invented_ by
small companies which desperately wanted to convince investors that they were
absolutely determined to become large companies. So I'm not surprised that it
still carries that connotation... the real surprise is that the connotation is
wearing off. We're getting to the point where your proposed definitions sound
more and more reasonable. Because it no longer takes five years of advance
planning, an enormous staff, office buildings, multiple factories, and all the
other big-company trappings to scale up a small company, if that company is on
the web.
------
yagibear
Some examples of small businesses that aren't startups might help clarify the
issue. When I visited a local small business advisory centre (in the hope of
learn something to help my startup, before I understood this difference) the
other founders who I met were selling (purportedly) gourmet dog food and
therapeutic massage. Most small businesses are like that: providing goods or
services to localities. Tradesmen, delis etc are other examples.
~~~
ahoyhere
Selection bias.
Most small businesses _that visit their local business center_ are like that.
------
speby
I would argue startups are a specific subset of businesses that initially are
"Small Businesses" with the defining quality being the capability to scale to
something much larger, obviously when faced with a market opportunity that
allows it do so (whether that market is existing or is completely new).
Of course, the "term" startup is often used loosely but most often is used to
define the usual: Tech-oriented, "innovative" businesses seeking to raise
millions of dollars and eventually become companies that can make hundreds of
millions of dollars (or billions) and can make the large exit (as PG pointed
out above).
------
pchristensen
[http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/hacker-vs-
engineer...](http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/hacker-vs-engineer-
know-the-difference/)
------
medianama
There is no difference
If you think your startup isn't a (big or small) business - you are missing
the point.
------
sachinag
A startup is legitimately an investable opportunity for a professional
investor. (Just because 37signals doesn't want money, doesn't mean that
they're not a good candidate for a VC investment.)
~~~
tptacek
37signals actually took funding.
~~~
ahoyhere
But in a very, very different way than every other business that gets talked
about here.
They were profitable first, became very profitable over time, and they took
funding years later when their revenues must have been in the millions/year
(while still being only a handful of people) - and the only reason they took
it (they _claimed_ ) was to get access to Jeff Bezos, the investor.
------
nickfox
A small business is making money... :o)
~~~
owkaye
"A small business is making money."
If you mean generating a profit you're correct. Anything that's not generating
its own profits is nothing more than a hobby. Twitter is only a hobby. So is
Facebook. Neither are generating their own profits, they exist solely on funds
provided by investors -- and that's not a business, it's a privately funded
hobby.
When a hobby starts generating more income than expenses then maybe it has
earned the right to be called a 'small business' or even a 'large business'
depending upon where you draw the line in terms of scale, but until then it is
in no way a business.
A startup is anything that's being started. Whether it's still a hobby or a
business does not matter in the least. Some people may delude themselves by
calling hobby startups 'businesses' but that doesn't make them businesses.
------
sutro
The difference often manifests itself like this: startups make something
people want; small businesses make something people want to pay for.
------
tptacek
Startups grow for the sake of growing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Good Evening, Kraftwerk / Guten Abend Kraftwerk, Guten Abend Stuttgart [video] - CaliforniaKarl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCQEzgtWv-E
======
ranc1d
Can’t believe this doesn’t have more upvotes! This site gives a bit more
behind what was involved behind the scenes [http://cdm.link/2018/07/watch-
kraftwerk-jam-with-the-iss-and...](http://cdm.link/2018/07/watch-kraftwerk-
jam-with-the-iss-and-esa-astronaut-alexander-gerst/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun - acak
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/09/25/earths-water-is-older-than-the-sun/#.VCSWtSldUnR
======
dalore
Woah, think of the impact this has on homeopathy! With water having memory,
that memory goes back to older than our sun.
~~~
adwf
Cue a hunt for the oldest water on the planet, market it as "Interstellar
Miracle Cure!"
------
unclebunkers
This greatly increases my expectations of life on other planets if true.
~~~
cristianpascu
Water is one of zillions of elements that need to get together for there to be
life. Expectations increasing? Yes. Greatly? :)
~~~
tim333
It's a big one though. You also need a planet with a suitable temperature.
Beyond that most of the other stuff seems pretty much everywhere.
------
coldcode
I've always wondered what percentage of water molecules on the earth have
always been water molecules, i.e. since they became H20 how many have been
separated by chemical processes and later recombined back into water. How you
estimate that is beyond me.
~~~
scott_s
How you estimate it is the third paragraph of the submission: compare the
ratios of hydrogen to deuterium (hydrogen with a neutron).
~~~
AnimalMuppet
No, that's how you estimate something completely different - the age of the
hydrogen atoms that make up the water.
I believe that the GP's point is something like this: It says "the water is
older than the sun", but what it really means is " _the hydrogen atoms in the
water_ are older than the sun".
~~~
scott_s
The subsequent paragraphs explain how they go from "age of hydrogen atoms" to
"age of the water." If you want more detail than is in the article (which is
understandable), then you'll have to refer to the published paper.
------
PierreDow
Despite the media fanfare
([http://www.pressreader.com/bookmark/7WFY0PDVE4Z/TextView](http://www.pressreader.com/bookmark/7WFY0PDVE4Z/TextView)),
I have some reservations giving credibility to a single model-generated study.
Not to say it’s groundless, but I wouldn’t jump to conclusions just yet.
------
baxterross
the sun's hydrogen is older than the sun. boom.
~~~
tomp
Yes, the title of the article is kind of shitty, and obvious. All elements in
the solar systems (except those being formed in the sun's core) are older than
the sun, probably the result of the explosion of some much older stars.
But what the article is really trying to say, is that it's "normal" that our
solar system has (this much) water.
_> If our solar system’s formation was typical, cosmically speaking, then the
findings imply that interstellar ices are in healthy supply for all up-and-
coming planetary systems. And since all life we know of depends on water, that
news improves the odds that other planetary systems have what it takes to
support life._
~~~
swombat
> _All elements in the solar systems (except those being formed in the sun 's
> core) are older than the sun, probably the result of the explosion of some
> much older stars._
Don't forget those trace amounts of elements produced by our pathetic attempts
at creating a fusion reactor on Earth! And all the material created by natural
fission decay of fissile materials in the Earth's crust and elsewhere...
The "probably" is unnecessary. Until the sun explodes and expels the core of
"new material" that it's created by fusion inside of it, ALL the non-hydrogen
material in the solar system can be said to have resulted from the explosion
of some much older star.
And given that our Sun is (thankfully) still in the hydrogen-burning phase of
the main sequence, even if it did explode all we'd get for it is Helium.
------
SergeyDruid
Interesting article. Now that I think of it, how comes that in all the (known)
universe we have ice or ice blocks (such as comets)? Where from does it
originates?
~~~
jk4930
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre)
;)
~~~
SergeyDruid
Fascinating theory regarding the ice, however, regarding the formation:
"According to the idea, the solar system had its origin in a gigantic star
into which a smaller, dead, waterlogged star fell. This impact caused a huge
explosion which flung fragments of the smaller star out into interstellar
space where the water condensed and froze into giant blocks of ice. A ring of
such blocks formed, which we now call the Milky Way, as well as a number of
solar systems among which was our own, but with many more planets than
currently exist."
maybe too far fetched? If it was like that we would have already spotted
similar galactic formations outside of the Milky Way
~~~
andrewflnr
Well obviously if we had, their discovery would have been suppressed by
"reactionary astronomers". ;)
------
EddyTaylor
It is hard to believe but it seems to be true. Also, it ignites another
discussion; Are we alone or do we have some company in this universe.
------
kijin
This is not surprising at all. What would the alternative be? The
protoplantary disk that became the Solar System contained free hydrogen and
free oxygen but no compound thereof? That's sounds unlikely.
Water forms naturally given enough hydrogen and oxygen at a wide range of
temperatures. Since hydrogen is everywhere, and since main-sequence stars
produce tons of oxygen via fusion, there's probably a lot of water floating
around in the universe. When a nebula collapses into a protoplanetary disk,
the increased density makes it even more likely that gas molecules will meet
one another and form compounds.
~~~
nilkn
Water is indeed pervasive throughout the universe. Here's a pretty interesting
and relevant article from NASA:
[http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/universe2011072...](http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/universe20110722.html)
------
eapen
I came to say that this changes everything since I thought the light came
first. Still seemed relevant. (not trolling)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_there_be_light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_there_be_light)
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was
without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the
Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be
light: and there was light. And God saw the light, and it was good; and God
divided the light from the darkness.
~~~
Cleanaxe
Light was created on the first day, but the Sun was created on the fourth. And
Genesis presents the Universe's primordial state as being just a watery mass,
so water existed before both.
Fun fact: Proverbs 8 identifies Wisdom as the first of God's works, hence the
Judeo-Christian tradition of identifying Wisdom with light.
[http://www.esvbible.org/Proverbs+8/](http://www.esvbible.org/Proverbs+8/)
The New Testament also identifies Jesus as both Wisdom and Light, despite
Wisdom being female in Proverbs.
~~~
sigzero
The last one, you are trying to find contradiction where there is none.
~~~
lotharbot
Among serious Christian circles it would be phrased as "learning that first
century Jewish culture was different from ours and didn't react the same to
certain concepts". They didn't see it as at all weird to identify Jesus with
wisdom -- not because they were idiots or missed a blatant contradiction, but
simply because they didn't have the same specific hangups we do. Likewise,
Jesus identifying as a "hen gathering her chicks" in Matthew 23 wasn't a
gender _faux-pas_.
~~~
coldtea
It's not a gender faux-pas now either in 99% of the world.
------
kp666
water on earth came from meteors and some of these meteors could have been
older than sun
------
IgorPartola
Here is a fun fact: only elements up to iron are produced as a result of
fission. The rest, including elements essential to human life, elements in
your body, are only produced through fusion. Fusion is known to only occur in
stars. You are stars.
~~~
CapitalistCartr
Yes,except it's the other way round. Fusion in normal stars makes elements up
to iron. Only supernovae create the rest of the elements.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_nucleosynthesis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_nucleosynthesis)
~~~
timdiggerm
It says that Lithium, Beryllium and Boron are made by cosmic rays.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray_spallation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray_spallation)
This is crazy.
------
themodelplumber
As someone interested in science, I was really excited to read the headline
and see the HN discussion. As a Christian I was surprised and kind of creeped
out to see the "so much for the Bible" talk. I feel like a Japanese person
must feel when an American tries to get them to laugh at jokes. But I guess in
a way it's nice though that nobody ever brings up the sort of beyond-
Religion-101 topics that actually challenge my faith.
Edit: Why all the downvotes? I'm saying I'd prefer we let science be science,
without the didactic religion talk, pro or con.
~~~
jjsalamon
At the time of writing there is only 1 parent comment poking fun at the bible.
Let's not get too delicate here.
~~~
themodelplumber
Only one parent comment sure, but it was the second comment on the page at the
time, and is currently the longest thread on the page. Nothing wrong with
calling it out.
~~~
lotharbot
that "longest thread" includes some moderately enlightening comments which are
not at all anti-religion, but are challenging in a good way.
.
disclosure: I wrote some of them ;)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: A Project Board built for remote teams - delgiudices
https://shipped.dev?ref=hn
======
matchbok
Neat idea, but anything that ties into slack or threads in slack is asking for
lost or complicated work. Slack threads are probably the worst tool for
getting any work done.
~~~
Brendinooo
I don't think that's some kind of moral absolute. Slack is indispensable for a
chunk of the remote work that I do.
~~~
ceejayoz
Are Slack _threads_ , though?
~~~
Brendinooo
I wouldn't call them indispensable but they are helpful in moderation.
------
zeroimpl
Sounds interesting, but the website has very little details on it so I can't
really evaluate how well it would work for me.
------
ComputerGuru
Why are you overriding native scroll?
------
mentos
My team uses slack and trello what are we missing out on by not using this?
~~~
delgiudices
Shipped replaces Trello, with Shipped conversations are 2-way synced so that
teams can respond from Slack instead of having to check trello
------
seancoleman
I would highly recommend against using "Jira Blue" :)
------
drcongo
Nothing happens when I click the Join with Slack button.
~~~
delgiudices
Sorry to hear that, if you click refresh it should load properly, we're
working on fixing that!
~~~
drcongo
Came back and tried again. Something was getting blocked by my content blocker
(1Blocker), reloaded without content blocking and it worked. I figured this
was probably useful for you to know.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Has anyone become a licensed realtor just to save 3% on commission? - react_burger38
======
pcvarmint
Where do you live?
Because in most jurisdictions, at least in North America, it is legal to list
your house "For Sale By Owner" without a real estate license. [0][1]
[0] [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/for-sale-by-
owner.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/for-sale-by-owner.asp)
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_sale_by_owner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_sale_by_owner)
------
amerkhalid
I just got my real estate license in Texas. The total cost of education,
license, then signing up with broker and joining NAR, will be around $3,000
for the first year. Ongoing cost would be around $2,000 yearly.
As an agent you will likely split your commission with your broker, usually
50% for new agent but you can find some that offer take only 30% or even less.
For me, it was a little bit of impulse decision, we are planning to sell our
townhome and move to a house in next few years. But also we have been looking
into real estate investments.
We need to close one transaction a year to breakeven on cost of real estate
license. Probably not worth it but now that I have license and I will helping
friends and family and hopefully it will be worth it.
Also like others have said if you are selling your own home, you most likely
don't need a license.
------
jeffdecola
Just sell your house without a broker. No one is forcing you to use one. But
there are a few caveats, the big one is not being in the MLS system, so buyers
may never know about your house. Also, other brokers will not tell their
buyers about your house. But if you're not in a rush to sell your house, try
it out for a few weeks to see if you can get a buyer.
------
Silverwood
I started my own firm that gives buyers a commission rebate in NYC. I didn't
get the license in time for my own purchase.
[https://silverwoodbrokers.com/](https://silverwoodbrokers.com/)
------
whenchamenia
I have acted as my own agent, but you are not required to be a real estate
agent to buy your own home. Realator is a corrupt predatory orginazation,
proporting to represent real estate agents, but mostly just control listings.
------
freediver
Not yet, but when eventually selling my house in bay area might just do it.
How hard is it?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Getting foot in door as a Software Engineering Student - WickerM
Looking for advice from others who might have gone or going through what I am doing.<p>Currently, I have a full time job as a mechanical engineer who regrets the industry I've gotten myself into. I've decided to go back to University and pursuing my degree for Software Engineering in my off time as well as learning AWS and Penetration testing as additional learning resources.
However, right now I'm losing steam at my current job and want to go somewhere that might open more doors. I've looked at Datacenter Technician jobs (currently living in Chicago), technical support jobs at local colleges & universities.<p>Are there jobs that people could recommend as someone who has interest in cloud, software engineer, penetration testing that are good entries for students?
======
atum47
When I decided to go back to college as a 30 years old dude, most of my
professors had projects that offered a small pay. I even end up working for a
multinational startup for a year (my payment was crumbs, but it was better
than nothing). Maybe try something like that. You can make great connection at
college. Get closer to the professors who likes the same stuff you do, they
would be able to recommend you.
------
dingsingsing
I transitioned from liberal arts degree -> telemarketing / inside sales ->
field engineer -> education company teaching IT to underemployed communities
-> big IT consulting firm -> normal software engineering job,
You have an awesome background,
Some surprising types of companies that helped me transition into a software
engineering role where i am today and am happy with:
-education companies teaching software/IT (lots of online/non-profits doing this nowadays in the US, pays not great, but its fun to teach and you are working with software which is a step in the right direction), i found education hours are usually pretty structured (when you are with students), so that gives you time to continue to ramp up skills outside of those hours, i initially enrolled as a student at my program, at least you will be able to tell your friends/family what you do all day if quitting your job is on the table, and then went on to work for the school for a brief time
-field engineering (installing software systems/robots/machines on client sites), sounds like you have a good background for that, a step in the right direction in my opinion, being on client sites can be pretty brutal though in terms of not having time to improve skills out of work hours due to work deadlines/exhaustion of physical nature of the work and the traveling.
-big consulting firms, big IT consulting firms like Deloitte, Cognizant, Capgemini, handle staffing software engineering/IT departments at a lot of big US corporations. So like Google engineers might mostly be normal Googlers, but there is probably still thousands of IT consults working at Google full time (on projects with like 10 year contracts, obv easier to get hired by IT consultant than a firm like Google) These firms hire both extremely qualified/experienced engineers and newbies like us who might be getting in the industry. Might not be the dream job for someone getting into software engineering, but I found working with senior engineers at Fortune 500 companies to be a great step in the right direction.
------
heelix
We take interns at our shop. Even had a program (pre-covid) where we had high
school students doing an internship type program - and I will be hiring them
when they finish university (if I can steal them away).
Any work you do as a student will pay off in spades. Very common to start off
doing some testing - and it is easy to think it is the Charley work. Look for
a place where the developers write tests, not necessarily have dedicated QA
staff. Take time to learn whatever language they are developing in. Most folks
don't spend the extra time honing skills right away and if you can get one of
the senior folks to mentor, it will accelerate your career.
------
giantg2
Help desk or internships would be good. Any position related to the field will
look better on your resume than nothing. You can learn a lot in a help desk or
many intern settings because you need to be a generalist so you get exposure
to many things.
If you are already in the process of night school, then you might as well
apply to some of the jobs you want. Reach out to the recruiter and suggest
bringing you in as an intern (paid) until you get your degree and then be
promoted into the role. It's a bit of a long shot, but some places will do it.
------
Jugurtha
You have domain knowledge of your job. Can you identify problems that can be
solved with software in your job, organization, or sector? Can you build and
finish software to address these problems and bring value to people? Can you
get it used.
If you do that, you'll be way ahead to get a foot in the door. It shows you
can _notice_ problems, _build_ products to solve problems, and get users.
This _arc_ is very attractive.
------
s1t5
Do you already have a degree in mechanical engineering? If you do, you will
likely be able to switch to software without doing another full undergraduate
course.
~~~
WickerM
I do, however its an Associates Degree
------
agallego
hi wickerm - not sure if this applies to you - but we released an scholarship
for this kind of thing for under represented groups
([https://vectorized.io/scholarship/](https://vectorized.io/scholarship/))
~~~
WickerM
Thanks! Will look into it, but doesn't seem I would fit the category. I will
try submitting regardless
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cloudflare’s IPFS Gateway - jgrahamc
https://avc.com/2018/09/cloudflares-ipfs-gateway/
======
detaro
Your original announcement of this already is on HN, please stick to the rules
and don't submit additional thin posts about it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Introducing a new, advanced Visual C++ code optimizer - nikbackm
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2016/05/04/new-code-optimizer/
======
kibwen
Undefined behavior notice:
> Historically, Visual C++ did not take advantage of the
> fact that the C and C++ standards consider the result
> of overflowing signed operations undefined. Other
> compilers are very aggressive in this regard, which
> motivated the decision to implement some patterns which
> take advantage of undefined integer overflow behavior.
> We implemented the ones we thought were safe and didn’t
> impose any unnecessary security risks in generated code.
> A new undocumented compiler flag has been added to
> disable these optimizations, in case an application
> that is not standard-conformant fails:
> -d2SSAOptimizerUndefinedIntOverflow-. Due to security
> concerns, we have seen cases where these patterns
> should not be optimized, even though following the C
> and C++ standards allows us to [...]
It sounds like they're not doing anything that GCC/Clang aren't already, but
if you've only ever compiled with MSVC then be careful not to overlook this.
~~~
protomikron
Interesting. Can anybody explain in a few sentences (if this is possible), why
we have undefined behaviour in the first place? I know there are optimization
reasons, but do we have data that confirms that turning on stricter flags (I
think all major compilers let you avoid undefined behaviour) breaks lots of
software?
~~~
PeCaN
(Not guaranteed to be correct)
Long story short: historical accident. Modern safe systems languages like Rust
and Ada¹ avoid undefined behavior unless you explicitly ask for unsafe code,
and even then there aren't many _undefined_ things you can do (violate strict
aliasing I guess).
Most undefined behavior could be implementation-defined, but the edge cases
from porting C+Unix from the PDP-11 (which I understand to have been...
quirky) to many other systems happened before the spec, then the spec authors
had to make the Ideal C Machine a sort of subset of all the existing
behaviors. Thus, some things that could've been implementation-defined ended
up totally undefined (god knows what computers did on signed overflow back
then—the compiler may not have been able to guarantee anything: hence
undefined) and we've kinda stuck that way ever since.
That said, the people who shame the compiler writers for "exploiting undefined
behavior to optimize microbenchmarks and look good" annoy me to no end. That's
just how the spec turned out, put up or shut up (or use a nicer language that
isn't trying to stab you in the back as soon as you let down your
vigilance...).
Here's a fun history of C:
[http://pastebin.com/UAQaWuWG](http://pastebin.com/UAQaWuWG)
¹ Strictly speaking, I recall the Ada spec has some wording similar to
undefined behavior, but it's not something you hit often.
~~~
kibwen
> even then there aren't many _undefined_ things you can do
There's actually plenty of things you can do in an `unsafe` block in Rust that
counts as undefined behavior (I don't know how you "explicitly ask for unsafe
code" in Ada, but I'm confident the same is true there as well). Some of this
falls out of the fact that Rust compiles down to LLVM IR, which itself has
undefined behavior, but others are inherent (like demanding the preservation
of the aliasing guarantees, as you mentioned).
For anyone curious about seriously using unsafe code in Rust (which is to say,
using unsafe code in Rust at all, in any capacity), I recommend reading
through the Rustonomicon: [http://doc.rust-
lang.org/nightly/nomicon/](http://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nomicon/)
~~~
pjmlp
> I don't know how you "explicitly ask for unsafe code" in Ada
You need to import a virtual package and some times also make use of specific
pragmas.
Ada, and Modula-3 are very much "into your face" in what concerns unsafe code.
For example, if you intend to do a conversion between data types without
guarantee that the target can can hold a valid data representation, you need
to import Ada.Unchecked_Conversion.
And do something like this:
[http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/docs/95style/html...](http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/docs/95style/html/sec_5/5-9-1.html)
Same applies to everything else deemed unsafe.
------
cokernel_hacker
So they finally got SSA? Neat, right up there with LLVM and GCC.
It also sounds like they have something like LLVM's InstCombine pass, it'll be
interesting to compare which cases they handle. Despite it being a peephole
pass, InstCombine is actually one of the most important scalar optimizations
in LLVM's arsenal.
I also wonder if they form SSA in the face of C++ and/or SEH exceptions.
Like if you have something like:
bool f() {
int x = 2;
try {
throw 0;
} catch (...) {
x = 4;
}
return x & 1;
}
Will they insert a PHI of 2 and 4? The MSVC of today cannot optimize the
return to a constant.
~~~
inDigiNeous
First time I'm hearing about SSA. Is it something me as a coder should be
thinking about while writing code, or is it purely a compiler phase ? Thanks.
~~~
cokernel_hacker
This is not something you should think about writing code. Unless that code
comprises a compiler :)
SSA is a program representation which is easy for compilers to analyze and
optimize. See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single_assignment_form)
for more.
------
mrich
Thumbs up to Microsoft for investing that much into their C/C++ toolchain.
~~~
jjawssd
I believe it is just a C++ toolchain and the C part is neglected. Has
something changed?
~~~
cremno
Since VS2013 some useful and popular C99 language features are supported. And
then there's Clang/C2 but it can't be used via command-line yet.
Their standard library (besides being intentionally not fully compliant) is
missing some C11 features though. I guess we have to wait at least for C++17:
[http://www.open-
std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p006...](http://www.open-
std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p0063r2.html)
~~~
xvilka
Not all of them, and today is 2016, important C11 feature, like _Generic still
not supported. And it would be awesome, if MSVC will support GNU extensions,
like Clang does. For now I recommend to use clang-cl wrapper:
[http://clang.llvm.org/docs/MSVCCompatibility.html](http://clang.llvm.org/docs/MSVCCompatibility.html)
------
zoren
I believe the Bit Estimator example could be better:
int test(unsigned char a) {
short b = a; // b: 00000000________, a: ________
b <<= 4; // b: 0000________0000
b |= 3; // b: 0000________0011
return b != 0; // -> return true
}
The analyzer doesn't need any information about the two low bits of b to know
b != 0. Had it been b ^= 3 instead of b |= 3, it would be a different matter.
~~~
gratilup
I tried to have a simple example, maybe it was too simple. You are right, an
OR with a constant is enough to know it is not zero. For this case the Bit
Estimator also knows b = [3, 4083], writing something that takes advantage of
this info would have been more interesting.
------
AaronFriel
The tl;dr of this seems to be:
* Visual C++ now has very aggressive SSA-based optimization rules.
* One of these optimizations is the bit estimator, which tracks the state of each bit of local variables.
I'm not aware of LLVM/GCC or other compilers using a bit estimator. I found
some hits in the CS literature but I'm not aware of any other compilers using
it, and it seems like a pretty potent optimization!
~~~
theresistor
LLVM has had the same thing for a very long time, under the name
SimplifyDemandedBits
------
dkopi
Love the a % 2 != 0 ? 4 : 2; optimization. This used to be one of my favorite
interview questions for low-level positions - conditional assignment without
branches.
~~~
wmu
Nice question, I had to think for a while. :)
------
m4dc4pXXX
It bothers me that they say implementing SSA eliminates the need for
"complicated" data-flow analysis. Data-flow has a really nice theory behind it
and enables a lot of optimizations. For example, dead-code elimination. But
otherwise, kudos to MS!
~~~
pbiggar
Except they are exactly right!
~~~
pbiggar
I should add more context here. A data-flow analysis framework has significant
overlap with an SSA-based analysis framework, except that the SSA-based one
leads to simpler analyses which are more powerful.
A good comparison is CCP (conditional copy propagation) vs SCCP (sparse CCP) -
the SCCP version is naturally flow-sensitive (that's a property of SSA form),
so it can eliminate entire branches, leading to more dead code being
eliminated.
~~~
rayiner
Aren't SSA analyses generally only "kinda flow-sensitive" since values are
only renamed where control flow merges, not where it splits? E.g.
int x = ...
if(x > 0) {
use(x)
else {
use(x)
}
In a DFA where you track information about each variable at each program
point, you could push the constraint implied by the condition into each
branch. If you do a sparse analysis on SSA form, that doesn't come naturally,
right?
~~~
nikic
To handle this case some SSA implementations add a concept of "pi" nodes,
which are used to artificially split variables on branches that establish some
useful data flow property.
x1 = ...
if (x1 > 0) {
x2 = pi(x1 & RANGE[1..])
use(x2)
} else {
x3 = pi(x1 & RANGE[..0])
use(x3)
}
x4 = phi(x2, x3) // if used
I have placed the pi nodes in the blocks, but semantically they are placed
along the control edge.
Ref e.g. e-SSA in the ABCD value range inference algorithm.
------
polskibus
I wonder what is the level of .NET's CLR optimization in comparison to this
new optimizer for C++. I hope they will reuse some of those ideas to make .NET
better.
~~~
micahbright
Hopefully, they will just recompile the binaries, and the CLR will just get
faster...
~~~
daeken
That's not really the way it works. The CLR compiles .NET code to native
machine code (either at runtime or ahead of time), which means you need to
implement these optimizations at the code generation layer of the CLR. You can
make the CLR implementation itself faster, but that's negligible compared to
the run time of the generated code.
~~~
micahbright
Are you saying the "code generation layer" of the CLR isn't itself written in
c++?
All of this stuff trickles down without a doubt. I realize it isn't going to
magically optimize the bytecode, however, the thing that runs the bytecode
will be faster.
~~~
ynik
The CLR doesn't have any bytecode interpreter that could get faster with this
change. It's a JIT compiler that compiles the bytecode to native code.
~~~
micahbright
Interpreter or not, the JIT compiler will certainly get faster with the c++
optimizations. The libraries that are linked against will get faster. The
underlying OS components will get faster. Since .NET assemblies are mostly
just glue code between framework code, which is mostly c++, everything should
get a speedup out of this.
------
_RPM
Why do they call it "Visual C++", What does the term "Visual" mean to them?
Also, is their compiler standard compliant? (c++11, c++98)
~~~
Strom
_Visual C++_ is just the product name, it's branding. It has no functional
meaning beyond that.
As for the standards, there's pretty good partial support for C++11/14/17\.
One fairly recent blog post by them has some tables. [1]
[1]
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2016/01/22/vs-2015-u...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2016/01/22/vs-2015-update-2s-stl-
is-c17-so-far-feature-complete/)
~~~
StephanTLavavej
Fun fact: the compiler's version (19) is larger than the IDE's version (14)
because the compiler predated the addition of "Visual" to the branding. (And
the IDE skipped 13, while the compiler didn't.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How I Killed A Startup In 4 Hours (And Why I Don’t Regret It) - adrianmsmith
http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/28/how-i-killed-a-startup-in-4-hours-and-why-i-dont-regret-it
======
ColinWright
Discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7664523](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7664523)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Neural Arithmetic Logic Units – Learning Numbers & Arithmetic End-To-End - williamtrask
https://arxiv.org/abs/1808.00508
======
epberry
I just came here to submit this. Really cool paper! The counting thing has
been devilishly hard for neural networks.
~~~
williamtrask
Thank you!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Nona.Care launches a babysitter platform merging AI with personal touch - NonaCare
Nona.Care launches the first babysitter platform where AI algorithm is to match parents with personally selected babysitters based on pre-set requirements. AI is to solve issues parents face when looking for childcare, such as time-consuming search, an overload of inactive profiles, lack of reliable references, and unavailability of the sitters.<p>With Nona.Care parents will experience the same lifestyle flexibility and security as if they
had a full-time nanny available to take care of their children at any time.<p>“This is easy help for busy parents, - says Kirill Tiufanov, the founder of Nona.care, based in Berlin, - Being parents ourselves, we were tired of old school expensive agencies or impersonal platforms with endless profiles. My experience in tech startups brought me to the idea of creating a quick and safe way of finding childcare. These days we have anything at reach in our mobiles. In a matter of minutes, you can buy tickets, book a taxi or rent a flat. Why not a babysitter?”<p>Nona.care platform features detailed caregivers’ profiles with reviews from other parents and a video to help parents make an informed hiring decision. Before profiles are published, all sitters undergo a five-step selection process, including completing an online questionnaire, background checks, providing references, as well as a personal interview with a Nona.Care team member and an onboarding education in early childhood development theories, Montessori method and practical issues.<p>“Our babysitters are not professional nannies, but rather people with values who are very good with children and love taking care of them. And they adjust to your schedule!” adds Kirill.<p>It takes only a few easy steps to book a babysitter and make a payment online. As an additional safety net, all bookings are covered by a worldwide insurance company. Coming soon are extra security features, like location tracking and noise-sensitive bracelets to alert parents, when needed.
======
NonaCare
[https://app.nona.care](https://app.nona.care)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The High Price of Multitasking - pseudolus
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/14/opinion/multitasking-brain.html
======
tonystubblebine
A simple change I'd like to see in tech culture is to change how we refer to
the notifications feature. We should call them interruptions instead.
Do I want my meeting interrupted if my spouse calls with an emergency?
Absolutely.
Do I want that meeting interrupted to find out I've been given a $10 Lyft
credit? Absolutely not.
That Lyft credit, thank you, can be delivered to the proper home for
notifications: my email.
~~~
hinkley
I started wondering a year or so ago if there's enough metadata available in
my dev tools to determine if I am actively engaged in debugging or if I'm just
decompressing (aka 'fucking around' according to some) on Hacker News.
If I can get that information reliably enough, I could use Automator on OS X
to enable Do Not Disturb until a couple minutes after I task switch to
anything else that's not focus-based.
~~~
chrislh
At work, we've been pushing everyone to use an app called clockwise. Basically
it integrates with your calendar, moves meetings around (with your approval)
to maximize focus time (2+ hour blocks of work).
It also allows you to set up "Do not disturb" on slack during your focus and
meeting time. It's awesome.
(BTW, no personal association with the company, just a happy user).
[https://www.getclockwise.com/](https://www.getclockwise.com/)
------
cosmodisk
Multitasking doesn't exist, it's just jumping from one task to another. I run
operations/tech side of things at the company I work for. Over the last month,
there were a lot things going on,which just ended up being priority on top of
priority(and they were not made up 'important' things). At some point I looked
at my inbox and I had 500 unread emails with no light at the end of the
tunnel,because in the morning I have to take this 45 min call with some
moaning customer,who wants to speak to the manager, shortly after I have to
deal with some compliance bs,while in the afternoon I somehow need to push
some code changes to production.So not much time left to read emails.So one
day,I just marked them all to 'read' and moved to archived.The inbox was
empty. What happened? Nothing. Just a hard reset on my inbox.So now I'm less
behind on some stuff and the rest can go to hell,or send me an email again.
~~~
onemoresoop
Multitasking is what prevents us from working on a problem uninterrupted. If
you are not allowed to concentrate on a problem because another task has
higher priority you are doing multitasking. You said it yourself, multitasking
is jumping from one task to another, and I may add the word unfinished before
task.
~~~
ogn3rd
wouldn't it be easier to describe multi-tasking as context switching?
~~~
bpyne
What we call multitasking is usually task switching, according to an article I
read after a similar discussion on HN. The dividing line has something to do
with only one task at a time being able to use an area of the brain. As long
as one of the tasks doesn't use that area, you can multitask. Otherwise, you
can physically only task switch.
------
NetBeck
Earl Miller has researched multitasking from a neuroscientist's
perspective.[1] The concept of "switch cost" is interesting:
"We are only good at doing one thing at a time. But we are switching back and
forth. It takes time for our brain to change from one task to another.
Switch cost is when it takes your brain a short while … to realign for a new
task. Your brain has to backtrack and figure out where it was in the first
place."[2]
[1]
[https://ekmillerlab.mit.edu/tag/multitasking/](https://ekmillerlab.mit.edu/tag/multitasking/)
[2] [https://www.today.com/health/multitasking-doesn-t-work-
why-f...](https://www.today.com/health/multitasking-doesn-t-work-why-focus-
isn-t-just-hocus-t69276)
------
jes
A problem with multitasking is that people may choose to work on a project
that is not the most important project for the company to complete.
Assume a company that has six projects, started but not finished, in its
portfolio.
The value of those projects, when delivered, will not be equal. Some will
likely be 10x or 20x the revenue of others in the portfolio.
If people are multitasking, they are jumping around from project to project.
The most important project to complete (A, let's say) is standing still while
people work on the other projects. Every so often, A gets some attention and
so it makes some progress towards completion. But before too it has to wait
again when less important projects are worked.
The company suffers because valuable projects take longer than they should to
complete and begin earning money for the company. Sales that are not made
because the product is not available for sale are never recovered. Developers
are deprived of the satisfaction of completing projects frequently because
projects always seem to take too long to finish.
Bottom line, cutting your work in process often brings dramatic improvements.
Thoughts?
------
Brajeshwar
Long back around 2014, I started with No-Notification by Default[1] on my
phone and my digital life. It was a really good start, and today I don't get
notified of anything except very critical things that I selectively choose to
keep them on.
About a year back, I experimented with a default Silent and Default DND[2] on
my phone. No call goes through except the ones in my favorites (less than 10).
I'm loving it.
1\. [https://brajeshwar.com/2014/missing-step-productivity-
activi...](https://brajeshwar.com/2014/missing-step-productivity-activities-
stop-notifications/)
2\. [https://no.phone.wtf/](https://no.phone.wtf/)
------
criddell
Multitasking doesn't exist but distractions certainly do. This is one of the
reasons I've stopped using multi-monitor setups.
My preferred set up is a large 4k monitor. If I can work with one application
set to full screen, I'm happy. Normally though I end up with my editor taking
up the left half to two thirds of the screen and the right section contains a
browser or terminal.
I use virtual desktops and on my second screen I have my music player and all
the messaging apps and email that I need. I flip to that desktop probably
three times a day.
------
dguo
In college, one of my computer science professors was giving a lecture in
which he explained all the low level things (like setting up the stack) that
go into calling a function. Then he compared it to the context switches that
occur during multitasking. That comparison has stuck with me ever since. It
made me very aware that there's a cost to switching tasks each time you do it.
------
x43b
I love gadgets and sensors, I've looked for a reason to get a smart watch. I
have avoided it because once I eliminate interruptions/multitasking, I can't
see a good use case for me. I check email/messages too often, I can't imagine
a buzz/chime/flash on my wrist helping.
~~~
mikestew
You might be right. Let me submit that a smartwatch allows you to glance, deal
with it or not, go on about your day. In contrast to the phone, where once I
unlock it, it has a higher tendency to drag me in. IOW, the watch is my first
line of defense to minimize me getting my phone out of the bag.
------
jjtheblunt
Are piano players, keeping a distinct lower-register tune in their left hand
WHILE their right hand plays a distinct tune, truly multitasking ?
~~~
ikeyany
I would say no—rather, their hands are executing two parts of the same task:
playing piano.
That's like saying a wind player is multitasking when they blow air while
simultaneously moving their fingers.
------
PaulHoule
When will the first manager manage accordingly? When do we see a job listing
that says they want somebody who doesn't multitask?
~~~
tonystubblebine
It has to start at the very top. Managers get bullied into creating multi-
tasking cultures because they aren't allowed to staff projects sequentially.
Every stake holder cares that their project is started, at the expense of when
all projects will finish.
Early Paypal had singular focus, although I've only heard the stories told
through the mythologizing of the founders: [http://blog.idonethis.com/manager-
focus-peter-thiel-paypal/](http://blog.idonethis.com/manager-focus-peter-
thiel-paypal/)
I think there's a way to manage remote teams that promotes single tasking.
Because communication is harder with remote teams you have to make a choice:
have more of it or have less of it. I always choose to have less communication
by trying to simplify work, eliminate coordination (especially parallel
projects), actually push decision making out to the edges. I don't know
exactly how well the people who work with me enjoy it, but I know I only have
one meeting on my calendar this week, and so I'm pretty free to single task at
least.
------
mnemnc
While I totally agree on the dangers of multitasking, I found a certain genre
of music to help me to get into a flow state while programming and thus
massively boosting my productivity.
~~~
jolmg
What genre is that? I tend to listen to different ones, but no _one_ genre
manages to get me into the flow every time.
~~~
mnemnc
Progressive psytrance. What's interesting is that a lot of other genres of
electronic music (which have similar characteristics) don't have the same
effect on my productivity and ability to concentrate.
~~~
jodrellblank
I'm not too surprised; I find a YouTube mix of an hour or two Psy Trance or
Psy Breaks to pass incredibly quickly. Classic trance gets a bit dull, EDM is
too engaging.
It's even more effective than thunderstorm or "train in the rain" soundscapes,
just as long as it doesn't have much in the way of lyrics.
------
jingw222
Multitasking is analogue to multithreading with GIL. As long as the tasks are
computing/analytics intensive, you're better off dealing with them
sequentially one at a time.
------
georgewsinger
I can think of few things more thoroughly chanted by the mainstream than
"multitasking bad!". Yet it seems that the most prolific outliers do quite a
bit of multitasking (for some notion of multitasking). In startups Steve Jobs
and Elon Musk come to mind.
Is anyone aware of any evidence (or even more anecdotes) of "multitasking
good"?
~~~
tonystubblebine
Do (did) they? With Musk, working at two companies isn't the same as multi-
tasking. He could show up to one in the morning and then the other in the
afternoon and people would generally consider that to still be single tasking.
------
british_india
Multitasking is harmful for left-brain dominant persons, because the left
brain processes information in a linear-sequential manner. This does not
permit the resumption of interrupted tasks.
Multitasking is not as harmful for right-brain dominant persons, because the
right brain processes information in a visual-simultaneous manner. This ALLOWS
the resumption of interrupted tasks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Problem with Threads - davi
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf
======
viraptor
I've found this part really amusing (re. nondeterminism of multithreaded
programs in a real environment):
"To offer a third analogy, a folk definition of insanity is to do the same
thing over and over again and to expect the results to be different. By this
definition, we in fact require that programmers of multithreaded systems be
insane. Were they sane, they could not understand their programs."
~~~
echaozh
And who says they could?
------
davi
As found in the SQLite FAQ, behind the assertion "Threads are evil".
<http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q6>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Recovering partially lost Ethereum private keys for fun and profit - jkilpatr
https://github.com/jkilpatr/partial-eth-key-cracker
======
permatech
I have 75ETH (from pre-sale) and a rough idea of my password. I still have the
JSON file and have tried script based brute force attempts with no luck -- is
this tool for me? Or is this for if I know my password but the JSON file
itself is corrupted?
~~~
jkilpatr
This tool is for the latter case.
That being said if you have a rough idea of at least the component parts of
your password building a simple cracker that takes a dictionary of substrings
and tries different arrangements and capitalization shouldn't be too hard.
I've had to crack my own passwords pretty regularly throughout my life, hazard
of using long ones and rotating them regularly.
------
jkilpatr
As an exercise for the reader there's about $30 in Eth contained in the
partial key in the readme. If you can find the actual key of course.
Happy cracking.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Elon Musk: The mind behind Tesla, SpaceX, SolarCity ... (TED interview video) - ColinWright
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IgKWPdJWuBQ
======
DiabloD3
Mod should change title to mention this is a TED interview.
~~~
ColinWright
Or the submitter. Which I did. Thanks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Transit starts crowd-sourcing real-time transit times as official feed breaks - ant6n
https://medium.com/transit-app/san-franciscos-real-time-transit-data-just-went-offline-so-we-re-going-live-9ebe78f89ea1
======
Animats
NextBus is an old system that uses 2G cellular links. It doesn't need much
data, so that's fine. Now 2G service is being discontinued by AT&T in SF, and
Muni has to switch. Or switch to T-Mobile, which is offering 2G service for
another year.
This was an early "Internet of Things" project. I met the inventor once at the
Hacker Conference. This is a general problem with "Internet of Things"
products - you're dependent on infrastructure which might go away.
~~~
Johnny555
There's no excuse for this happening -- AT&T announced the end of life of 2G
four years ago in 2012. Now Muni claims that the shutdown took them by
surprise and they are scrambling to replace all of the old 2G equipment
[https://www.sfmta.com/about-sfmta/blog/why-muni-arrival-
time...](https://www.sfmta.com/about-sfmta/blog/why-muni-arrival-times-are-
off-week-and-how-we%E2%80%99re-working-fix-them)
_Simply put, the deactivation work that affects our vehicles started sooner
than expected and outpaced our ongoing upgrade of all Muni vehicles to a new
communications and monitoring system._
[http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-08-03/at...](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-08-03/att-2g-network/56758432/1)
_AT &T Friday [announced] that the shutdown of its second-generation, or
"2G," wireless network will be complete by the end of 2016_
At the time, I was managing some devices that used 2G to send telemetry -- our
AT&T sales rep called us to warn us about the shutdown.
~~~
noobermin
Given SF is more and more the center of the US, how is it that your public
transport still falls victim to such neglect? I understand the lack of
appreciation for most cities in the US (like mine) since we don't really
prioritize, but SF should have its shit together given how dense of a city it
has become.
~~~
mulmen
SF is not the center of the US. It's just a city in California.
~~~
milesskorpen
There are two serious global cities in the US — NYC and SF. I don't think it
is unreasonable to suggest that the center of power/influence/whatever in the
US is shifting to these cities over middle America.
~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _There are two serious global cities in the US — NYC and SF_
After New York each of Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, Houston and D.C.'s
metropolitan areas are more economically larger than San Francisco's [1]. SF
is also relatively negligible as a global financial centre.
[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_ar...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP)
~~~
milesskorpen
MSAs aren't great definitions of geographical areas — San Jose is part of the
Bay Area. If you include San Jose in SF, then SF is the clear #3 in total —
and per capita would be a step function ahead of any other American city apart
from NY.
Even beyond this, I don't think GDP is a good definition of "global city" — I
don't think a city with massive commodity outflows could fit into the
category, for instance.
~~~
pvg
If you include San Jose in SF, you're not really talking about SF. I've lived
in SF on and off for many years and am very fond of the place. The notion it's
a 'global city' in the same category as NYC or LA seems like quite a stretch.
------
JCzynski
>Today we’re excited and proud to be launching in San Francisco. Not that we
planned it or anything. Literally we just decided an hour ago to do this
because somebody asked us to go live and we said “cool okay.”
Startup culture at its finest right here.
~~~
arielm
That statement actually makes me trust them less... I'm not saying they
shouldn't move quickly on such opportunity, but don't make it so obvious.
I hope it works flawlessly.
~~~
samvermette
Only reason we were able to deploy this quickly is because of the 2 pilots
we've been successfully running for the past 3 weeks.
~~~
arielm
I don't for a second doubt the ability. I'm a big believer in moving fast,
especially when there's such a bit opportunity for engagement and PR.
It's just the wording which I found a bit "loose". But I'm a stickler for that
sort of stuff ;)
------
Terretta
I love the competition between Transit and CityMapper. In cities with
coverage, they're both so good it's stressful trying to choose!
We are spoiled by both in NYC and surrounding counties, in Paris Transit is
crushing it with Velib integration, while in Copenhagen CityMapper's local
know how is amazing.
~~~
tfigment
Is this the same company? They list only supporting 2 Canadian cities
(Victoria, Montreal) in the top link.
~~~
samvermette
Those 2 cities is where we've been piloting crowdsourcing. The app itself
works in 125 metro areas.
------
swang
One of my lines I can ride into work is the N-Judah line. This line is the
busiest MUNI line. It is faster to get to my work because it goes underground
and the MUNI buses I have to ride go slower, especially when there are a lot
of pickups.
It is the most frustrating experience to walk to the N line because it is such
a huge gamble. It use to get so crowded that you had to shove in there like
you were on a line going into Tokyo. Just wall-to-wall people. They alleviated
some of that by having more stops come back earlier going the other way. Only
took them 2+ years since I've been here to decide that was an actual GOOD
IDEA.
Equally frustrating riding on the line is that the N-Judah is sometimes
actually a J-Church train that comes back right before you enter the tunnel
into Market St. The only sign it is not the one you want is the last car on
the train is locked out, and the badging for the train still shows N-Judah.
So sometimes you get on that expecting to go through the tunnel except it
dumps you right outside of it. Now you have to pray there is room leftover on
the next N-Judah line. Or alternatively you can try for the J-Church train
that is entering near where the N dropped you off. So N-Judah is the closest
line, but 50% of the time I have to use the J-Church train to actually get
into work.
And that's even assuming the tunnel into Market St. is not bogged down. Whose
genius idea was it to have all lines converge into one line?
What's the point of all this and what's it have to do with this article? Well
fucking MUNI that's what. They recently increased fees for cash
payment/limited payment card to $2.50. It is still just "$2.25" if you have a
Clipper card. When I arrived here 4 years ago it was $1? $1.25? to ride.
Literally for the increase of $1 more per ride I have seen service get
progressively worse. When this bug hit, it said 30 minutes 'til the next
N-Judah train. I tweeted to MUNI's twitter about what was going on and it took
them 20 minutes to respond. And all they can say is "technical" problem as
though 40% of the population in SF doesn't know what that really means. It is
an embarrassment. SF is suppose to be some tech capital of the world yet we
can't even ride into work without pulling our hair out over getting there.
Sorry, ranting, but it is unbelievable how incompetent our public
transportation is given how much money they have.
~~~
skuhn
I think you're misremembering what fares used to be. Muni raised single trips
to $2 in 2009 (and now it's $2.50 in 2017). Meanwhile my rent has more than
doubled in that time.
It's actually (still) much cheaper than other cities I have lived in, and
anecdotally fare evasion seems extremely high. Relative to the cost of living
here, fares should be like $5-6. Maybe with that kind of money they could
actually accomplish anything, although I kind of doubt the problem is solely
financial.
~~~
swang
You are right. I was sure that I paid less than $2 when I first moved into the
city but I looked it up and apparently it was $2 for a while before the hike.
------
glibgil
The Transit app should pay Muni drivers to use the app. Maybe $5 to $10 a
shift would be enough motivation. That would be an extra $100 to $200 a month
income
~~~
CoachRufus87
I'd be surprised if they were allowed to use their phones while working.
~~~
Zaheer
I think OP meant so that they have data for all transportation vs relying on
users crowdsourced. Still crowdsourced but with better paid sourcing :) Note
that it's passive - users don't have to do anything I believe aside from
having the app.
~~~
glibgil
Yes, this is what I mean. Drivers would not have to do anything if Transit is
smart about it. "Looks like you are a driver. You have taken two return trips
on the 14 today. Enter your debit card and keep the app installed and we'll
pay you $10 every day you drive"
~~~
jzwinck
Homeless people could just sit on buses all day and get paid for it too. And
within a few days some disruptive people will duct tape their phones plus
large batteries to the bottom of buses. Then terror alert.
~~~
janekm
The homeless part sounds like a pretty good idea. You hear a lot about startup
employees looking the other way with regard to social problems in the Bay
Area, so partial solutions like this could be interesting? Of course $10 per
day doesn't really raise anyone out of homelessness...
~~~
icebraining
Good idea? It's political suicide! Their name would be dragged in the mud
faster than you can say "exploitation". You can only offer low payments (that
is, in exchange for something, not donations) to people who don't really need
them, never to the homeless or otherwise unemployed.
------
coldshower
This is a smart use of crowdsourcing. From the app you can know the number of
people who are waiting for the bus and relying on your reporting. Kind of
gives you a sense of community. I hope this takes off.
~~~
arjie
Right. Their little smiley telling me that nine people are being helped by my
activating their app kept me longer at the stop than otherwise. The bus was
four minutes off their prediction, though.
~~~
samvermette
You're only going to get accurate departure times if someone else is using GO
on that bus/train you're waiting for!
~~~
wikibob
What does it take to add real-time data for a new city?
I've been interested in trying to scrape the data from the transit provider
here. They have what appears to be reasonably accurate arrival predictions
which they display through an atrocious app, and electronic signboards at some
bus stops. The busses have a terminal for the driver that displays how long
they need to dwell at times stops and announces the next stop, so I assume
this is (at an unknown interval) transmitting the locations to their server.
I haven't gone further in looking at it yet, because google maps will only add
data sources directly from the official transit provider.
------
eli
Neat. I had a similar idea a few years ago to make NextBus times more
accurate... but fell down a rabbit hole trying to implement it as a cross-
platform HTML app and never actually launched.
If anyone wants my idea: My perception of NextBus's arrival times are that
they're based on a very naive algorithm. I think it might literally be
assuming that all buses always move at an average 15 mph. Lots of ways to make
that more accurate with collecting just a teensy bit of actual arrival time
data.
~~~
stuckagain
I don't know about other systems but I've spent time in the field analyzing
NextMuni's predictions and they have no predictive power whatsoever. The first
arrival time is weakly correlated with actual arrival, and the 2nd and 3rd
times are not even correlated.
It's useless, essentially.
~~~
danaliv
I learned early on to discard the units when using NextMuni. The J will arrive
in three. Three what? Nobody knows, but there will be three of them.
------
Camillo
I tried downloading the app, but the app store was offline. Not sure if that's
considered ironic.
------
lanewinfield
With all of NYC's subway stations receiving cell reception as of less than a
week ago, this would be amazing for train times here.
Besides a couple lines, the train times here are all estimated—and essentially
useless.
~~~
nhf
They're working on a beacon-based train time system now [1]. Bluetooth beacons
are installed on cars with trackside sensors as trains enter and exit
stations. Station wi-fi is used to relay data about entering and exiting
trains. Since the MTA already has train speed and track length data, it gives
a pretty accurate guess at where the train is between stations.
It's not as accurate as full trackside sensors throughout the tunnels, but
much faster and cheaper to spin up. Pretty clever overlay IMO.
[1] [http://www.metro-magazine.com/rail/article/715387/nyc-
transi...](http://www.metro-magazine.com/rail/article/715387/nyc-transit-uses-
new-tech-tests-real-time-train-arrival)
------
aristus
This looks nice, but why does a bus app need to read my calendar? And photos?
And identity?
~~~
samvermette
Calendar to show a "Show Upcoming Events" option in the search. If you don't
tap it we don't access it. Photos to allow installing the app on an SD card
(popular request). Identity to use your name in the Send Feedback option. Here
again if you don't tap it we don't access it.
------
headcanon
Very impressive. The word 'agile' has bad connotations, but I think it applies
here. I hope that Transit and others can use this to jump-start their service
in smaller municipalities. My hometown's bus system isn't terrible, but
they're not the kind of organization that would see the value in making a
proper app, or by publishing real-time bus data. I would love to be able to
use an app like that where I live.
------
bfrog
Nifty, I know moovit has been doing this for a few years now as well as crowd
sourcing route information for a bit. Transit has a pretty nice UI and a few
interesting integrations. Fun to see some competition in this app space.
------
bonniemuffin
Twice in the last few days I tried to use NextMuni and it gave me super wrong
estimates, way more wrong than I've ever seen it. I wonder if this was why.
I'm really grateful to have another option available.
------
pronoiac
I like this, but then it highlights the underground train stops without mobile
signal.
------
pronoiac
Checking, I see a lot of "invalid dates" alerts on lines.
------
Zigurd
This should be crowdsourced. The official data here in the "T" bus service
area is unreliable. Crowdsourcing would also enable measuring real-world
service performance.
------
dkarapetyan
SF public transit continues to boggle the mind.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Brave Caught Revising URLs with Affiliate Links - totaldude87
https://decrypt.co/31522/crypto-brave-browser-redirect
======
noble_pleb
Brave is perhaps the only platform which is trying to compensate the ads
viewer by giving them a part of that revenue pie (in terms of BAT crypto-
currency). No other browser or even affiliate system is even trying to do this
AFAIK.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A programming language based on the one-liners of Arnold Schwarzenegger - aloukissas
https://lhartikk.github.io/ArnoldC/
======
tgv
Here's the hello world of technical interviews in ArnoldC:
IT'S SHOWTIME
HEY CHRISTMAS TREE JOHN
YOU SET US UP @NO PROBLEMO
HEY CHRISTMAS TREE SARAH
YOU SET US UP @I LIED
GET TO THE CHOPPER SARAH
HERE IS MY INVITATION JOHN
LET OFF SOME STEAM BENNET 100
ENOUGH TALK
STICK AROUND SARAH
GET TO THE CHOPPER SARAH
HERE IS MY INVITATION JOHN
HE HAD TO SPLIT 15
YOU'RE FIRED 15
GET DOWN JOHN
YOU ARE NOT YOU YOU ARE ME 0
ENOUGH TALK
BECAUSE I'M GOING TO SAY PLEASE SARAH
TALK TO THE HAND "FizzBuzz"
BULLSHIT
GET TO THE CHOPPER SARAH
HERE IS MY INVITATION JOHN
HE HAD TO SPLIT 5
YOU'RE FIRED 5
GET DOWN JOHN
YOU ARE NOT YOU YOU ARE ME 0
ENOUGH TALK
BECAUSE I'M GOING TO SAY PLEASE SARAH
TALK TO THE HAND "Buzz"
BULLSHIT
GET TO THE CHOPPER SARAH
HERE IS MY INVITATION JOHN
HE HAD TO SPLIT 3
YOU'RE FIRED 3
GET DOWN JOHN
YOU ARE NOT YOU YOU ARE ME 0
ENOUGH TALK
BECAUSE I'M GOING TO SAY PLEASE SARAH
TALK TO THE HAND "Fizz"
BULLSHIT
TALK TO THE HAND JOHN
YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR LOGIC
YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR LOGIC
YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR LOGIC
GET TO THE CHOPPER JOHN
HERE IS MY INVITATION 1
GET UP JOHN
ENOUGH TALK
GET TO THE CHOPPER SARAH
HERE IS MY INVITATION JOHN
LET OFF SOME STEAM BENNET 100
ENOUGH TALK
CHILL
YOU HAVE BEEN TERMINATED
~~~
Iwan-Zotow
You forgot KOKAINUM and HOOLIGANY
------
pierrec
This could be a new genre of highly experimental cinema. Turn a program into a
short film by replacing each one-liner by its corresponding video clip. You'll
need to figure something out for variable names, strings and numbers, though.
Maybe just use those that can also be sourced from Schwarzenegger clips.
------
chabes
Was hoping there was a “who is your daddy and what does he do?”
~~~
tmacro
That will be added when they do a unit testing framework
~~~
twic
Used to find the superclass of a type, surely?
------
joeax
Some possible language extensions:
NewObject = IT'S NOT A TUMOR
DeallocateObject = YOU'VE JUST BEEN ERASED
WriteToFile = COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE
------
zxcvbn4038
whatIsBestInLife = [ “Crush Your Enemies”, “See Them Driven Before You”, “Hear
The lamentation Of Their Women” ] If ItsJudgementDay then...
I can get into this, it’s what JavaScript should have been. Much better then
that Samuel L Jackson language with only one statement...
------
wruza
So wordy they must have name it CONAN.
------
isuckatcoding
Someone should tweet this at Arnold (but not sure he’ll understand)
~~~
fortran77
He only speaks 6502 Assembly Language.
------
aloukissas
Does "I'll be back" equate to a do-while loop? :)
~~~
joekrill
"I'LL BE BACK" is "return". "STICK AROUND" is "while", according to the list
of keywords: here:[https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC#brief-overview-of-the-
ke...](https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC#brief-overview-of-the-keywords)
------
Speakeasys
All PR requests should require the comment “I’ll be back”.
------
dpau
all that's left is to hook in audio files so we can review code in arnold's
voice
------
bryanrasmussen
I would like to know what "consider that a divorce" does.
~~~
dokem
Fork()
------
tabtab
When is SamuelJackson++ coming out?
------
draklor40
Hastala Vista to exit the program!
------
Iwan-Zotow
Kokainum!
should generate exception, I would guess
------
juststeve
Is this production ready?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Good news – mass testing can work (Covid-19) - photawe
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/scientists-say-mass-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19
======
melling
“A study in Vò, which saw Italy’s first death, points to the danger of
asymptomatic carriers”
Imagine what’s happening in NYC now.
~~~
photawe
Yeah... It's very very bad
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bethesda blocks resale of used game - detaro
https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/11/17661254/bethesda-sell-used-games-amazon-block
======
ikeboy
Vorys is corrupt. I've received threatening letters from them as well, that
came to my physical address despite it not being listed anywhere on my Amazon
store. It also contained false assertions (I'd bought the goods in question
from an authorized distributor that confirmed to me that the letter was simply
lying).
I know multiple other sellers that also had this issue. It is my belief that
Vorys is illegally paying Amazon insiders to get contact information for
sellers, as there is no legitimate path to get that information that does not
involve a subpoena to Amazon, which would involve an active lawsuit.
Unfortunately, this is hard to prove.
~~~
ikeboy
In general, companies can be extremely abusive if they don't want their stuff
being sold online. I know multiple people who have bought directly from
companies, and later had the company claim to Amazon that they were infringing
IP. The listing goes down, sometimes the entire account as well, till you send
in invoices and convince Amazon to accept them and reinstate the listing,
which takes time.
~~~
close04
I wonder if this is more of a Bethesda initiative or a law firm initiative. Is
Bethesda aware that bad PR these days can cripple your launches? Are they
really risking an increase in "revenge piracy" or loss of sales just for a
marginal reduction in "losses" from these Amazon sellers?
People who buy used games don't want to pay the new price, and they won't. One
way or another they'll get it for the discounted price. It's best if you don't
alienate your customers for something that will bring no palpable benefit.
~~~
phobosdeimos
"People who buy used games don't want to pay the new price, and they won't"
They will once physical disks are abolished for digital stores. They have been
pushing this for years and PC gaming is already there. No more used games.
~~~
close04
I wonder if people will just create a different account for every game and
just sell the account :D.
And I don't see PC games being any different than console ones. Most games
still have physical copies that can be resold, or am I missing what you meant?
Physical copies still have plenty of life in them with games ballooning to
triple digit GBs and most of the world being stuck on slow internet.
~~~
Macha
Many PC physical games have been Steam keys in a box for a long time.
Sometimes they come with a disk with the Steam installer for the release
version but it has DRM to prevent running it without activation on a specific
account, so it only really saves on download time for a couple of months until
patches are as large as just downloading the game anew.
In recent years, there's a been few more cases of Origin/uplay/etc. keys in
the box instead, but the same limitation applies.
------
rpdillon
This is an interesting legal move: using a warranty to claim that a resold
good is 'materially different' from an original, and therefore is not subject
to first sale doctrine. If it held up in court, it seems extremely dangerous
for consumer rights.
~~~
greenyoda
How is that different from selling a used car that's no longer under warranty?
If this ever gets litigated, is a court likely to make a decision that
undermines the U.S. used car market? Or is the company hoping that it can
intimidate sellers into backing down without ever having to go to court?
I suppose that it would be stupid for car manufacturers to attempt to put
restrictions on resale, since that would significantly reduce the value of a
car. But the same thing could happen to games: if someone knows that they
can't resell a game if they get tired of playing it, they'd be somewhat less
likely to buy it in the first place (or not be willing to spend as much for
it).
~~~
seanalltogether
The arguments only apply to the sale of copyrighted material, not general
goods.
~~~
ikeboy
Warranty is used to get around first sale rights for trademarks, not
copyrights. The argument is the trademark can no longer be used if the goods
are "materially different", such as by not having a warranty.
------
stephengillie
> _Bethesda recently sent out a notice to at least one seller on Amazon’s
> Marketplace who was trying to sell a sealed copy of The Evil Within 2,
> demanding that they remove their listing._
This could be an attempt by Bethesda to rein-in what they see as "counterfeit"
products, since Amazon is largely unwilling to police their own Marketplace.
Though the article states "Bethesda is a notoriously litigious company", and
have a heavy-handed history.
~~~
jjeaff
They could actually be charged with perjury if they are using the DMCA to take
down listings that they have no proof are counterfeit and turn out not to be.
Though I am not sure if DMCA applies in this case.
------
TangoTrotFox
Wow, this seems to be taking a piss all over the first sale doctrine if this
article is not somehow playing fast and loose with the facts. Seems like an
open and shut case for somebody like the EFF to take on, with some great press
for themselves in the process. Feels like there has to be some piece of the
story missing here.
~~~
throwaway080383
From the article:
_Bethesda’s letter claims that Hupp’s sale is not protected by the First Sale
Doctrine, because he is not selling the game in its original form, which would
include a warranty. The letter says this lack of warranty renders the game
“materially different from genuine products” that are sold through official
channels._
IANAL, but it seems to me that if this argument goes through, it would render
first sale doctrine useless, as you could tack on a warranty to just about any
old product.
~~~
ams6110
Warranties for software are notoriously narrowly scoped. Not warranted for any
particular use or fitness for any purpose, etc. About all they _will_ warrant
is that the media itself works and offer to replace it if it doesn't.
So just warrant that what you are selling is what it claims to be and offer a
refund or replacement if it isn't. That seems to be materially the same as
what the original seller provides.
------
classichasclass
If this expansion gets to and is upheld by the courts, it makes me wonder
about DVDs and Blu-rays people sell with either now expired or previously used
digital codes and whether this would be subject to the same "material
difference."
~~~
pbhjpbhj
Nothing to do with them then, it's not their product you're reselling as it's
"materially different" \- oh right, so for copyright purposes it's an exact
copy, but for any natural rights the consumer should have it's a different
product.
This sort of evil should be stamped on hard by government.
~~~
lisper
You mean the same government that is currently controlled by corporations and
doing everything it can to maximize corporate profits? Yeah, good luck with
that.
------
pbhjpbhj
Did they notify consumers that they were bundling a warranty, sounds like all
the purchasers should be due a partial refund and any people with damaged
discs should get replacements, under their warranty.
~~~
CocaKoala
[https://help.bethesda.net/app/answers/list/search/1/kw/warra...](https://help.bethesda.net/app/answers/list/search/1/kw/warranty/dym/1/p/886)
There's no mention of a warranty on the Evil Within 2 support page
[https://bethesda.net/en/search?q=warranty](https://bethesda.net/en/search?q=warranty)
And no mention of a warranty on their main website either.
The amazon store page says that for warranty information, you can contact the
seller (which would be amazon, and presumably amazon's warranty) or that more
information may be available on the manufacturer's website (and the above
links demonstrate that it isn't).
So yeah, my question is "Does anybody know about the warranty, and if not, how
is a warranty that you don't know about materially different from not having
one?"
------
Covzire
After their apparent pivot to becoming an MMO company, I don't expect many
more good games out of Bethesda anyway.
~~~
dvlsg
I suppose they're only the publisher, so maybe this doesn't count, but Doom
2016 is hands down the best fps I've played in a long time.
~~~
morganvachon
Same, I just picked it up in the Steam sale, and it's what I wanted out of
Doom 3 fourteen years ago. I feel conflicted that I just gave $10 to Bethesda
while they are pulling this stunt, but it's a great game nonetheless.
------
digi_owl
Was gifted Fallout 4, and what was in the case was one DVD.
Upon install, that required a Steam account, it would pull down 2x or more
that of the content of the DVD to make the game playable.
And then i had to go mod hunting basically on day one, because they had
implemented a non-optional head bopping on the first person camera...
------
beerlord
Can Blu-Rays be manufactured to make each disc unique, with an embedded code
that is used to link a license of the game to an account?
Then the publisher could simply decide to disallow games from being activated
on another account.
Or, bundle a CDKey inside the case, but I think this exposes significant fraud
risk if a rogue employee cracks open hundreds of cases from a shipment, sells
the keys online, then reseals them.
~~~
LeoPanthera
I believe this was how the XBox One was originally going to work, but the
outcry was so loud that Microsoft had to backtrack before the console was
launched.
A particular criticism was that you would not be able to play any games
without internet access, which would have made it useless for many people,
including for example some military personnel deployed overseas.
~~~
beerlord
Its just a matter of time before that happens. How many gamers who aren't on a
plane, in a train or in a base in Fallujah don't have constant broadband
access?
I think those instances are being reduced yearly all around the world.
The next generation of consoles will have a low-end version that hosts some of
the calculations locally, such as input and collision detection, but all of
the detailed rendering etc. on the cloud. All games will be inherently 'online
only', distribution of optical disks will become pointless and everything will
be linked to an account - no resale.
------
bitwize
Software is licensed, not sold. Generally speaking if the license indicates
it's nontransferable (which it almost always does), the software is not
subject to first-sale doctrine and is illegal to sell.
~~~
roywiggins
Not unless the copyright holder can produce documents proving it was a
licensing and not a sale:
[https://www.finnegan.com/en/insights/copyright-
infringement-...](https://www.finnegan.com/en/insights/copyright-infringement-
case-is-blocked-by-first-sale-defense.html)
If I just buy a copy of a game from a physical store and I don't sign a
licensing agreement, it's hard to see how that would pass the test here- he
never even opened the jewel case.
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