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Ask HN: Google took down Chrome Extension without reason. What should I do now? - roadbeats
Hi all,<p>I run a bookmarking website (getkozmos.com) and it has a browser extension which is available on Github (https://github.com/kozmos/browser-extensions).<p>Google took down this extension without even a notice. I just got a message from a user and realized it was taken down, I can not see the reason. The only message I get from the store is "This item has been removed from the store because it did not comply with our policies or terms of service.".<p>I have a paid developer account and sent bunch of e-mails, also mentioned Google Chrome on Twitter.<p>No response so far. Noone opened the e-mails I sent (I can see if someone opens an I e-mail I sent, thanks to Superhuman).<p>I ran out of ideas. I can not imagine how a simple bookmarking extension doesn't comply their policy. All it does is creating a heart button in the browser, and providing a new tab interface to explore the bookmarks.<p>Ideas & recommendations welcome.<p>Azer
======
o0c
Sorry I can not help, but I want to clarify, you can not see if someone
"opens" an email. Simplifying a bit: mails are basically sent in plain text
from mail server A to mail server B. What happens next highly depends on the
scenario. If the recipient is an individual usually the client fetches the
mail from the server and renders it as it pleases, hence tracking embedded in
html is not necessarily rendered nor "read receipts" are sent back. In many
other cases (e.g. corporate recipients, where different persons may look at
it) the mail will be processed in some form and only plain text content
extracted to be displayed in some ticket system.
~~~
roadbeats
You're right. But still, we got no response for all e-mails we sent. Google
Chrome's official Twitter account didn't even respond us once although we
mentioned them so many times.
------
CommanderData
That sounds awful. Have you tried reaching out on their public Chrome forum ?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Look At Me! - gamble
http://www.cjr.org/cover_story/look_at_me.php?page=all
======
rhdoenges
"preeminent patron saint of pre-adolescent sartorial taste"
Now THAT is good writing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Worlds Very First Webserver - thenextweb
http://thenextweb.org/2008/09/16/the-worlds-very-first-webserver/
They (Herb Brody) say that telling the future by looking at the past assumes that conditions remain constant. This is like driving a car by looking in the rearview mirror. But I still think it is good to look back on how things got started and where they ended up since then. The first website was put online in August 1991. Just think about how much has happened since then and try to imagine how much we can expect from the following 17 years…
======
joop
From the page: "They (Herb Brody) say that telling the future by looking at
the past assumes that conditions remain constant. This is like driving a car
by looking in the rearview mirror. But I still think it is good to look back
on how things got started and where they ended up since then. The first
website was put online in August 1991. Just think about how much has happened
since then and try to imagine how much we can expect from the next 17 years…"
Nice...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A look at an original iPhone prototype - Assossa
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/19/18263844/apple-iphone-prototype-m68-original-development-board-red
======
yellowapple
Seeing what looks like a full iPhone attached to it (I know it's just the
screen, but the inclusion of a taped-over home button is interesting) gives me
kind of a "Thinking quickly, Dave constructed an iPhone using a circuit board,
some tape, and an iPhone" vibe.
~~~
augustl
I was also curious about that. In other stories I've read, I've heard it
referred to as a big ugly box with a touch screen embedded on top of it, which
is what I imagined most people worked on. But this just looks like a normal
iPhone with a large breadboard connected.
~~~
ianhowson
I always imagined that the iPad came about because some engineer had a Retina
iPhone prototype on a standard 72dpi screen and figured it might work to
replace a laptop.
Take the old eMac software, and bam, iPad.
(100% speculation)
~~~
saagarjha
I believe “iPad” was actually being developed prior to iPhone and was put on
pause while multitouch and other technology was lifted from the project to
support iPhone.
~~~
sjwright
That's how Steve Jobs tells it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5f8bqYYwps&t=2233](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5f8bqYYwps&t=2233)
------
elagost
If anything a big board like this is one way to ensure it's not easy to steal.
The on-board (pun intended) documentation - "Do not connect battery without
removing J49", etc - is pretty neat too. Is this something that's fairly
standard in the industry?
~~~
ATsch
It's pretty common. If you have the time and space on a board, it's a good
idea to fill the silkscreen with useful or important information.
~~~
PascLeRasc
I love when the info makes it to the shipped version. My bass amp has a
miniature schematic drawing etched into itself, it's been incredibly useful.
Here's my favorite PCB etching though:
[http://i.imgur.com/28cYobo.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/28cYobo.jpg)
------
tyingq
The "M68" name is interesting, given that Apple has a long history with the
M68K processor, which isn't involved here. I wonder if it's a nod to the first
Mac or the Lisa.
~~~
corobo
Probably named that way to throw people off the scent if the project name got
leaked
------
pdxandi
That's really interesting. Whose job is it to actually design and develop the
prototype board? It seems like that team would have to know quite a bit, if
not nearly everything, about the device.
~~~
hatsunearu
Usually the design engineer that handles the production board goes through the
EVT boards.
Basically the purpose of EVT to a) ensure all the _components_ identified in
the initial survey/design review actually work together b) enable software
development early in the process c) iron out any showstoppers and kinks that
could jeopardize the project later on.
The next few design stages usually get rid of all the super-debug stuff (such
as the ethernet port on the iphone; also maybe get the form factor down) while
still retaining the regular debug stuff (JTAG etc). This usually when
mechanical can jump in and preliminary compliance stuff can take place (EMC
etc)
------
Cd00d
Why the anonymous source? 10 year old secrets in a rapid-development
technology seem like non-secrets, so who's willing to "leak" but not be
identifiable at this point?
Maybe Apple has strict secrecy rules that are only partially enforced? I don't
quite get it.
~~~
daniel_reetz
Apple has an extreme focus on secrecy.
Apple probably considers this board their property.
~~~
95014_refugee
It _is_ their property. They paid for it, and it was never sold or otherwise
transferred.
~~~
daniel_reetz
Thanks for the helpful clarification. Clearly someone has this dev board or
has access to it in such a way that they were able to share it. My point was
simply that they might have something they shouldn't, and that fact helps
explain some quirks of the article that seemed confusing to the GP.
I'm ex-Apple, BTW.
------
mandeepj
> "many of the engineers working on the original handset didn’t even know what
> it would eventually look like"
This is a stretch. Guaranteed that if you are working on just chips then you
might be living in just your own silo.
------
retSava
Is it me or does it look like the top layer has reaaaaally thick copper? Look
at how it differs between areas with those squares contra area without. Looks
like it's very very thick. Perhaps the solder mask.
~~~
jacquesm
Nothing out of the ordinary for prototypes. Much easier to solder fixes to
without accidentally stripping a trace and better RF properties, which will
help with an oversized board like this one.
------
omilu
Is the checkerboard pattern on the top layer for aesthetics, or is it
functional for EMI reduction.
~~~
jeffwheeler
I suspect this is to avoid warping on a large board. They probably used
hatching to match the amount of copper on the top and bottom of the board.
------
zpeti
Does it connect to my airpods though? :)
~~~
saagarjha
The new AirPods supposedly require "an iCloud account and macOS 10.14.4, iOS
12.2, or watchOS 5.2", so it doesn't look like it :P
~~~
jacquesm
What a nonsense. As if earbuds would require the cloud to function somehow.
This 'I'm forcing my cloud down your throat' stuff has to stop.
~~~
tinus_hn
It would help if you actually looked at what it is before trashing it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bountify - Crowdsource small coding tasks - danabramov
https://bountify.co
======
mseebach
Hmm, it seems to me that for any task small enough to be appropriate for this
site, it will be more work to describe the task and verify the result than to
just perform the task.
This leads us to those who don't have the capabilities to do the task: They
will risk asking for the impossible (the syllable counting task[1]) or
accepting the unacceptable (the ZIP-code form solution includes a PHP script
with a gaping security hole).
1: So this task has been requested by 'bevan' who appears to be the founder of
the site, and in a comment dumbed down to only having to work for the given
set of tests - the given solution will be little better than just manually
counting the syllables.
~~~
fragmede
You're right that users will ask the impossible, and accept the unacceptable,
but I think that a good enough feedback mechanism could over-come this, and
sites such as Stackoverflow have implemented feedback mechanisms that could
work.
Eg. by allowing comments on answers, the glaring security hold in the ZIP-code
form answer could be raised, addressed, and fixed.
Allow moderators to say 'this task is too big/the bounty is too small', while
simultaneously limiting the maximum bounty to something small.
IMO, the 'right' solution is for libraries to be more easily broken in to
pieces while simultaneously easier to use together so that just the form part
of the 'big ZIP-code PHP library' could be used in this case, but barring
that, this is a neat attempt at code-by-documentation, given that most of the
problems I saw were easier than homework problems.
~~~
mseebach
> but I think that a good enough feedback mechanism could over-come this, and
> sites such as Stackoverflow have implemented feedback mechanisms that could
> work
But people are on SO out of a desire to help other people, and SO specifically
encourages general problems - so saying "that's not possible" is the right
answer to the syllables problem instead of some messy thrown together code
that doesn't actually work.
By introducing the financial reward system, this goes out the window. I get
nothing out of commenting on bounties, explaining why answers are wrong or
requests impossible because I'm not contributing to a community of being
helpful to future people running into a problem.
> IMO, the 'right' solution is for libraries to be more easily broken in to
> pieces while simultaneously easier to use together
Sounds good, but that's not how software development works. The cognitive
skills required to break down a problem into such pieces is significantly
higher that those required to write code that performs the task.
~~~
fragmede
> I get nothing out of commenting on bounties,
The system could easily pay a pittance for commenting, and then more for
distinguished answer; and hell, a monetary _penalty_ for poor answers/spam.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like the accepted answer, along
with its code, was freely available, so future people _do_ get the benefit of
your insight.
> The cognitive skills required to break down a problem into such pieces is
> significantly higher
...so why should they waste their valuable time doing both the documentation
_and_ implementation?
~~~
mnicole
I like the idea of being able to nitpick someone's code for credits. I also
like the idea of being able to take [some of] their $ if I can prove their
method is wrong within a certain amount of time of being accepted, or possibly
all of the $ if they really screwed the pooch.
------
delinka
"Programmers compete to provide solutions within 1 week."
Sounds like logo contests: spend _your_ time on work that you might not get
paid for. And given mseebach's[1] "accepting the unacceptable" - people
without the capability to write these small code tasks themselves are not
qualified to evaluate proper solutions.
1 - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4663884>
~~~
bevan
The lack of a guarantee of payment may dissuade some potential solution
providers. However, I think most users provide solutions for fun. At least one
repeat user can't even accept Paypal payments in his country. BTW, you can
also send your winnings to charity if you wish.
------
impostervt
So I just Selected an answer for the bounty I posted: <https://bountify.co/G>
I got two good answers pretty quickly, which made it a bit hard to choose. I
selected the one that used the most standard libs, instead of the first
answer. I sent the first responder a tip as thanks.
Some thoughts now that I've used it: \- Got two good answers quickly - loved
that part. Saved me a lot of time. I'm going to use it again immediately for a
the same thing in PHP (<https://bountify.co/H>).
\- How about the ability to copy/clone a bounty so I don't have to rewrite the
whole thing? Just a thought.
\- I felt as though the price you add to tipping is a bit excessive. It was $1
per increase ( $.99 for a $1 tip, $1.99 for a $5 tip, $2.99 for a $10 tip).
~~~
bevan
I'm glad you got solutions so quickly!
I've also had a hard time selecting a winning solution when several correct
ones are posted. I'd like to avoid duplication of effort by solution providers
when possible, but finding a way to do that is tricky (I plan to at least
implement a 'view count' to give would-be solution providers an idea of how
many others have seen the problem).
Thanks for the feedback regarding the tip fees. I'm considering reducing them,
as I want to encourage tipping as much as possible (especially considering
that tips are often awarded to solutions which may be as good as the winning
solution, and I want to encourage rewarding those efforts so that good
solution providers stay around).
Cheers!
------
bobwaycott
Probably echoing other concerns here, but immediate thoughts:
\- Filter open bounties (or have a sort option and default to open bounties at
the top of the list; not much use in seeing expired bounties)
\- Payment should not occur until an answer is accepted, and you should be
able to do this via Stripe without much additional effort. Not everyone values
or appreciates being forced into a charitable donation when they are
attempting to spend money to solve a problem.
\- The fee structure is quite exorbitant. Charging an extra $22.44 on top of a
$250.00 bounty? The Stripe fee is only $7.55. Same for the $100.00 bounty--
Stripe fee of $3.20, and an upcharge of $11.79. That's ridiculous.
~~~
bevan
Thanks for the feedback.
1) I'll add a filter for open bounties.
2) It would be nice if payment could occur after a solution is accepted, but
in practice that presents some thorny issues. Notably, how would I ensure the
bounty creator pays after they receive a working solution?
3) What would you suggest as a more appropriate fee schedule? Considering
expenses, of course :)
~~~
bobwaycott
1) Awesome. That's the biggest usability improvement right now.
2) Accept all CC info at time of posting a bounty and create a Stripe customer
record. Charge automatically when the user accepts an answer--acceptance is
the delayed "confirm payment" step, so to speak. Create a system whereby the
deadline for bounties applies to both parties--poster must accept an answer
within 7 days, unless there are no answers or something. Figure out how to
handle bad answers, etc. Or make it so they will be charged automatically in 7
days unless no answer is provided, and the bounty will be applied equally to
all the responders or something. Get creative. The forced charity thing really
shouldn't be happening. Give the money to the people who take the time to
answer questions, leaving it up to the poster to ensure they award the full
bounty to the right person. Keep a reputation system on a post:accept ratio or
something so responders can get an idea of whether they're likely to be
awarded a bounty from a given poster or not.
3\. That's a bit tougher one to answer from the outside. I can't figure out
how expenses could be as high as the upcharge. I completely understand wanting
to make money off the service, and think you absolutely should. But, upwards
of 300% is a bit much. The reason this sticks out so much is that people will
accept fees, but when the fees get excessively higher at different steps in a
way that is not an equal percentage across all steps, it becomes obvious that
there is something wrong. I think this is highly likely to be noticed among
the audience using this service. So come up with a flat rate that applies
across the board--say, 10%. Enough to cover Stripe's fee & have a bit extra
left over. You should be making money off building up a vibrant service, not
off gouging your users.
------
wodow
I was thinking about this problem recently, primarily around a service for
outsourcing the optimisation of functions (e.g. inner loops).
For this it would be useful to be able to define unit tests and set execution
time limits.
Done well, this is a kind of part solution to problem 6 "Bring Back Moore's
Law" of Paul Graham's Frighteningly Ambitious Startup Ideas:
<http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html>
------
killercup
Bootstrap. Please don't make its usage so obvious.
Also, is there a way to see only unsolved bounties? Seems like a main feature
to me for programmers.
~~~
jasonkester
Do you believe that most people know what Bootstrap is? Enough to recognize it
on sight? And that they care enough to not use a site that was built with it?
And of those people, are they the kind of people who would find a site like
this one useful? That is, are you saying that in your opinion, this site will
suffer noticeable financial consequences of having used Bootstrap and not
sufficiently disguised it? And that that lost revenue would offset the costs
of changing the design?
I'm not sure that I can agree with you if that's the point you're trying to
make.
~~~
neotek
The people who use Bountify (ie, programmers) will almost certainly know what
Bootstrap is, and that stereotypical Bootstrap "look" gives the impression of
laziness and a lack of care. Whether that impression is correct or not is
debatable, but the fact remains that form is often just as important as
function when it comes to making a sale.
~~~
indiecore
Really? I don't think it matters. After I learned about bootstrap I started
noticing it everywhere but beyond "oh hey, they're using bootstrap" (and
stealing ideas like crazy when I notice) I don't get _offended_ if someone is
using it.
------
tzaman
It seems like we got a competition (by we I mean <http://carmivore.com/>).
We're not this far yet though, so we better hurry! :)
~~~
bevan
Landing page looks great! Let me know if you want to compare notes sometime
over coffee (SF or NY). Looking forward to seeing the product. All the best!
~~~
tzaman
Thank you for the invitation, unfortunately, I'll have to pass for now as I'm
from Slovenia, EU :)
Here's a small sneak-peek for you: <http://cl.ly/image/001Y0W0y050X/o>
~~~
lemieux
That looks awesome! Nice UI!
------
impostervt
Seems interesting, and I may have some items to post. Not sure that I like
that if my bounty gets no answers my money goes straight to charity. Would
tend to make me post lower bounties to reduce my risk, which may attract less
attention, which may increase my risk, etc.
PS - The link to the MSF charity is wrong.
~~~
bevan
@impostervt, I'm the creator of Bountify- thanks for pointing out the broken
link, I'll fix it asap.
Yes, I think the money-to-charity policy will dissuade some users from posting
higher bounty amounts at first. My goal is to show that certain kinds of tasks
can consistently get quality solutions on Bountify. So far I've been pleased
with the speed and quality of solutions and the tone that's been set by the
first users.
Feel free to share what types of tasks you'd consider posting. Thanks again
for the feedback!
------
impostervt
Just posted a bounty (<https://bountify.co/G)-> some thoughts:
-Looking up tags is painfully slow. -I agree to the Terms & conditions - missed it the first time through, lost my CC info. Kind of annoying. \- Posting the bounty, from the time I clicked the Post Bounty button until the page refreshed, is also slow. Maybe a spinner at least next to the button so I know it's working?
~~~
bevan
Thanks for posting a bounty!
Sorry about the latency, I'll work on that. I'll also address the Terms and
Conditions issue (by most likely removing it entirely, since there is a
redundant notice on signup). Please let me know if you have any other
suggestions or feedback, I really appreciate it.
------
ScottBurson
I'm afraid this probably runs afoul of the escrow laws. Such laws vary
somewhat by state, but they generally cover situations where you act as an
intermediary in a transaction, holding money for one party until the other
party satisfies some condition. The problem with this business model in
general is that it provides a great temptation for embezzlers, as the amount
of money being held at any one time can be quite large (being the sum of
multiple pending transactions).
The easy fix is not to actually charge people when they place a bounty, but
instead get a preauthorization; then you can charge them at the time the
bounty is actually paid. Depending on how PayPal's API works, you might be
able to do this without having the money actually pass through your account.
This would also give you the option of not charging them at all if their
problem wasn't solved, but presumably you don't want to do that since it opens
the system to abuse.
------
ing33k
I was curious and actually posted my solution to this <https://bountify.co/J>
I should say that I will not be participating in this in future unless I am
assured that my solution has equal chances of acceptance.
I posted my solution few minutes after the first solution was posted . ( my
approach was completely different on handling the file uploading) later after
some time I was shocked to see that the first answer was edited and was
following the approach I had followed.
I am not saying that code was copied. what I am saying is that it's not good
to allow other participants to see the different solutions . Also I would
suggest that you maintain version of every answer. ( so that you can track the
edits ) ..
~~~
bevan
Hi ing33k, I'm the creator of Bountify. Thanks for trying it out! In response
to your comment, solutions are versioned, and there is now a Timeline feature
for each Bounty, where you can see each edit made to each solution in order of
creation. You can also see diffs for each solution. Let me know if you have
any other suggestions!
------
asher_
I love this idea. I'm going to bookmark it and give it a shot when I get stuck
on something that I need done in a hurry.
My thoughts: 1\. The bootstrap theme is fine imo, unlike what others are
saying. I'm assuming this is an MVP to see if you can get traction, and in
this case the functionality is more important than the aesthetics. You'll
obviously want to change this later on though.
2\. Let me filter open bounties, or at least move those to the top of the
list.
3\. Your tag filters don't look like they are working properly. If I click
'javascript' for instance, I only get one record.
4\. Can we set custom time limits? For small coding tasks, I don't want to
wait a week to have them done.
~~~
bevan
Thanks for the great feedback!
2\. That feature is forthcoming 3\. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll fix
that. 4\. It started that way, but then I realized the time limit wouldn't
have much impact on when the bounty actually gets answered, because solution
providers compete to answer as soon as possible. So in the interest of
simplicity I decided to make it a week. I'll consider changing it back. In
practice, most tasks have been solved well before the deadline.
~~~
asher_
My thoughts on the time limits...
I have wanted a service like this a dozen or so times this year, and each time
it has been when I'm stuck on a problem that I need to get sorted ASAP. If I
have time, I'll figure it out myself (that's part of the fun).
I usually want a solution within minutes/hours rather than in a week. I would
happily offer relatively high bounties for solutions if I get them quickly,
but if I have a problem and I have to give people a week to complete it, what
happens when I solve it myself the next day?
This might not be the standard use case, I don't know. But I had an SQL query
I was struggling with a few days ago that would have been fairly easy for an
SQL expert to correct and I would have happily put up a $50-100 bounty for it,
provided It was done in a few hours.
In any case, I love the service, and I will certainly test it out next time I
get stuck on something!
~~~
bevan
Thanks for your thoughts. I see what you mean about the time limit- I imagine
that use case (people needing solutions quickly) will be quite common, so I'll
look for a way to address it. My concern with adding time limits was that a
shorter one might not increase answering speed (but it does seem that it would
in most cases).
------
agscala
Definitely have a minimum price set. $10 would probably be worthwhile, maybe
even $20 as a minimum. I'm not going to waste my time for $1. $10 is pretty
iffy also.
Also like others said, I don't care about seeing expired bounties.
------
sturmeh
Is it just me or is a bounty just more likely to deter people from trying to
give a worthwhile response?
I can see it turning to the point where the answers will degrade in quality as
more and more people join the site in an attempt to make money. (Similar to
Yahoo answers.)
Compare to Stack Overflow, where people are answering questions and solving
problems for arbitrary points. (Mainly to help their fellow man.)
------
tarraschk
I love this idea. However, it would be helpful to get some RSS/Atom feed to
follow bounties.
------
irunbackwards
This is really neat, reminds me of Philip Rosedale's project, Work List, but
with a lower barrier to entry. <https://www.worklist.net/worklist/welcome.php>
------
urlwolf
If you are in Slovenia (EU), how come you can use Stripe? Honest question, I'm
in Germany.
~~~
bevan
I'm the founder and I'm in the US (the founder of Carmivore mentioned they
were from Slovenia).
------
theaeolist
Ideal for school programming assignments?
------
jlebrech
wow some people are cheap
------
indiecore
I see people are already paying out for their homework[1]
<https://bountify.co/8>
~~~
bevan
Actually, that's me (the founder), seeding the site with some bounties. I
don't want the site to get a bad reputation as a cheating hub, so I'll be
closing questions that are excessively homework-like. <https://bountify.co/8>
and similar bounties were inspired by Project Euler.
------
pibefision
I will not try any new web app which uses default bootstrap themes.
I think that today, it communicates that you don't have too much appreciation
for the final user experience, just want to test a concept.
~~~
arocks
It is probably because of one of the following reasons:
\- The team is primarily technical with no design experience
\- Followers of "Release Early and Iterate"
\- Minimalism in design to focus on content
It is unfair to judge a book by its cover. Twitter bootstrap is godsend for
many to create a website or webapp.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Moneta - a unified interface to key/value stores - mickeyben
http://github.com/wycats/moneta
======
thibaut_barrere
API-cache is a convenient caching layer that works on top of Moneta:
<http://github.com/mloughran/api_cache>
I use it on multiple sites (to cache http downloads, delicious tags api calls
etc). You can start with a simple filesystem store (moneta/basic_file) and
move to another store when needed.
------
avar
This is similar to the CHI and Cache modules for Perl:
<http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?CHI> <http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Cache>
------
tptacek
Using this with Redis (at least) misses much of the point of Redis, which has
an especially rich API.
~~~
patio11
On the plus side, I used something similar to use my caching store back when
it was MemcachedDB, and switching to Redis required a one-line change in a
config file rather than refactoring. (Learn from my mistake, everyone: skip
MemcachedDB, go straight to Redis, collect $200.)
------
benatkin
Interesting looking at the network graph on this repo. Lots of forking but no
merging in the months since features where added to wycats' repo. Seems the
project could use a maintainer!
<http://github.com/wycats/moneta/network>
~~~
wycats
I've been working on a rework on a branch that should be merged in this
weekend. It takes a lot of the feedback I've gotten and existing forks into
consideration, as well as lessons learned from Rack.
It was originally an experiment, and I didn't notice the activity around it
until recently. Stay tuned :-D
------
uuid
Interesting, and potentially useful. However:
"All stores support key expiration, but only memcache supports it natively.
All other stores emulate expiration." Redis doesn't support volatile keys??
Also, does it allow access to a DB's tuning parameters? It makes a great
difference whether to use Tokyo's B+ tree database or its hash database ...
~~~
subwindow
That was my first thought as well. The expire/expireat commands are one of the
main reasons why I chose Redis.
I'm honestly not sure why wycats would make that statement. It's not like the
interface for expiration is particularly opaque.
~~~
petercooper
Because moneta is not new at all, look at the commit dates :-) It only seems
to have made it to HN because someone resurfaced it on Reddit recently.
I asked wycats about this and he said he plans to do some serious reworking on
it soon.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Accidentally Turing Complete (2013) - morgante
http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html?
======
ericfontaine
nice. they forgot to mention Excel.
[http://www.felienne.com/archives/2974](http://www.felienne.com/archives/2974)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Robert Scoble launching an Investment Fund - DivByZero
http://scoblefund.com/
======
avirambm
"This website is intended to be a Parody"
~~~
DivByZero
Of course :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The vandals destroying libraries should have the book thrown at them - Tomte
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/13/vandals-destroying-libraries-should-have-book-thrown-at-them
======
djaychela
I live in the UK, have done my entire life, and have also been an intermitted
user of libraries throughout my life - often at points when I couldn't afford
the books I wanted to buy (particularly when I was a student).
I love books. I always have done, and most of my Christmas presents this year
have been books (only 3, but you get the point). They are so incredibly
important for opening up the vistas of thought and imagination that are
available to you, that I don't think it can be overstated. And the UK
government has been on a course of destroying libraries and a wide range of
other cultural and societal infrastructure that it can't be overstated how
scary this is.
Gove was responsible for stripping out a great deal of the syllabus in the UK
- support for 'meaningless' subjects such as music, and music technology which
I used to teach until the funding was removed from schools and it fell by the
wayside for most schools as it was too expensive to keep going once equipment
needed to be replaced. He is a man who feels he is an expert in every area,
despite being anything but. Others in the government seem to be much the same,
not seeing the point in anything they can't personally profit from.
Many of the subjects that are now struggling aren't public interest, and I
wasn't too surprised. But this will destroy any chance that a generation will
have to have access to the many-faceted wonders that a library can provide.
The UK is sleep-walking into a desolate, dystopian future where knowledge is
derided in favour of three-word soundbites and self-interest. The BBC will
fall foul of the government once Brexit is out of the way, with all that
brings.
I'm 48, and I can't remember any other time where I've actually despaired
about the future for my (step) kids, and where I've felt that the government
really is out of control. The way that the last election went was a damning
indictment of the (pathetic) opposition in this country, and Johnson and his
cronies (such as Gove) now have carte blanche to do as they please. By the
time they are finished, so much structural damage will have been done to this
country's institutions I think it will be next to impossible to repair what's
been done, even if there is the political will to do anything about it.
~~~
sandworm101
>> I'm 48, and I can't remember any other time where I've actually despaired
about the future for my (step) kids, and where I've felt that the government
really is out of control.
That is said by every generation. Every generation going back hundreds of
years. In the 1950s, the glory time for today's elderly, comic books we the
craze. A hundred years before that doctors would regularly tell people not to
read as it could cause illness, especially in women. Some thought chess
angered the blood. But they all drank and took opium with abandon. Today
doctors tell kids to reduce screen time, while loading them up with ADHD meds.
Nothing changes.
The definition of "old" is when you start lecturing on how young people were
so much better in your generation. It's just nostalgia. Old people forget the
evils of the past and see new evils everywhere in the present.
~~~
incompleteness
Everything changes, yet nothing is new under the sun.
------
kmlx
i found this article to be very poor. instead of trying to formulate an
argument for why libraries should be kept open, it lashes out in some petty
political scoring.
my opinion is that the age of the library has ended. the library model is from
a bygone age. it's role has been taken over by the internet. and any other
features (such as events etc) have been nullified by changes in society. this
is backed up by extremely reduced numbers of borrowers (and falling) and the
incredible growth rate of the internet, and especially mobile as a whole. the
digital disenfranchised have the same issue as the people who couldn't read
and write back when libraries were one of the main the sources of knowledge.
the difference today is that the price to access the internet has never been
lower, will continue getting lower, and the benefits of the internet massively
outweigh any nostalgic dreams about libraries.
there will still be libraries, but i don't foresee anything other than a
continued decline until a more sustainable model is found. even then, i don't
think another age of the libraries would be back anytime soon.
~~~
nerpderp82
You are wrong, libraries are extremely important and provide access to both
books and the internet for many many folks. They are a cultural, social and
intellectual nexus. The thinking that libraries are outmoded because we have
the web is short sighted.
This is article is outlining the destruction of the libraries in the UK by the
conservative government, an educated and engaged population is a cure for the
right. This is the same reason we have a war on education in the US, to make
more right wing voters.
> Because nobody has worked as doggedly to this end, as unsentimentally, and
> with a greater commitment to the suppression of literacy, than our own
> Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.
~~~
daemonk
I think he was referring specifically to their traditional function as a
repository of information. I think in that regard, libraries are outmoded.
Of course they have been and can be transformed to perform other important
community functions.
~~~
yborg
They are not outmoded for this function, which is the function of a repository
of information free to all citizens. They are critical for it, and they are
giving up on it, by and large, thanks to the current generation of
professional librarians.
What is described in the article is also happening in the US, and over the
last 15 years the public library has largely ceased to be a repository for
information or even a kiosk to access information, which would be it's primary
modern function. It has become a place to deliver entertainment, and even more
importantly to warehouse children of working parents and in some areas,
homeless people. These are perhaps useful and important functions, but not a
primary rationale for a library. But in order to perform these functions, the
libraries have eliminated ... the books.
And I don't just mean the physical books, and most of the suburban libraries
around here have eliminated by my estimate at least half of their physical
collections, both in books and media, largely to open floor space for lounge
areas. These books in many cases are now just _gone_. They aren't available to
read digitally either - because libraries are largely outsourcing the whole
'content' thing to for-profit companies that essentially lease books for
access by libraries at ridiculous prices. And you'll get what they consider
profitable, which is largely content that is ... entertainment.
One of the great functions of the "old" library was access to out-of-print
material. This is now largely gone, and because it is out of print, you won't
find it in digital distribution, either. And obscure or unpopular material
that formerly could be found in a library you now must buy, at a high price
because of low individual interest.
I believe that the public library was one of the great democratic institutions
in the US, not just because it afforded access to information, but as a place
where everyone, rich and poor, would go and have the same right to borrow a
book. The only sliver of hope I see here is that most libraries still seem to
have large children's sections and it warms my heart to see parents still
taking little ones to the library. It's one of the small rituals that help to
produce a civil society and one that I fear will eventually be privatized as
well.
------
prvc
"Vandals", being the politicians cutting back funding, not actual library
vandals.
~~~
teh_klev
I'm fairly certain the calibre of reader here is able to make that distinction
without it being pointed out. Or they could read the article to find out.
~~~
desertrider12
Sure, but it's a misleading/clickbait title.
------
rjkennedy98
"Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport". Just the name makes you
cringe. Digital, Media, and Sport is what a library is about avoiding. Its
about deep thinking and healing through reading, not the mindless pleasure of
the screen. How did these technocrats get in charge of such a precious
institution?
~~~
incompleteness
The upside I see is illegal online "libraries", which are free public printing
presses.
It's a revolution that went quite unseen, thanks to the copyright lobby's
persistent noise about copied videotapes and bootlegging.
May good health find their operaters, and may the next Library of Alexandria
make it to the heat death of the universe.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why RIM are giving away thousands of PlayBooks - jamesharnedy
http://www.appesque.com/why-rim-are-giving-away-thousands-of-playbooks/
======
andrewl-hn
Hmm.. Turns out they use Adobe Air for their tablet. Quite surprising.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Microsoft Announces Simplygon Cloud; Optimizes Mixed Reality Development - Impossible
https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2017/12/07/microsoft-announces-simplygon-cloud-optimizes-mixed-reality-development/
======
TazeTSchnitzel
> all major mixed reality platforms, including Windows Mixed Reality, iOS and
> Android
…so, Microsoft is calling something other than their own platform “mixed
reality” now? Weird. So far as I can tell, it is a Microsoft-specific term
that means VR and AR, although as currently implemented, only means VR.
------
walid
I've heard about the acquisition months ago. It took them a while to create a
Microsoft version out of it.
------
sp332
Wow, why would someone name a cloud product "simplygone". Doesn't exactly
inspire confidence.
~~~
MikusR
It's Simplygon and not simplygone. I would suggest you make a written note
reminding that you sometimes misread words. And keep it near screen/phone.
~~~
sp332
I know it's spelled Simplygon but it is pronounced the same way. If you said
"Simplygon" to someone, they would probably think you'd said simply gone.
~~~
MikusR
According to Wikipedia word polygon is pronounced as (/ˈpɒlɪɡɒn/) I don't see
an e there.
~~~
musage
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gone](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gone)
But good job attempting to shame unrelated people with unrelated "reading
disabilities"* just to make a point you don't even have.
* Which ones would that be? Reading what you read "aloud in your head" with an actual grasp how to pronounce things? Any others you care to make up, or was it just the one and you thought using the plural would make it an even more sick of a burn?
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Future Cities Catapult Launches Open Source Data Tool: The Digital Connector - Tombolo
https://github.com/FutureCitiesCatapult/TomboloDigitalConnector
======
Tombolo
Based on our README can you determine what this tool does in <1 min
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How do you move around in vim? - donutmonger
arrow keys or hjkl?<p>I'll admit it, I use arrow keys so I don't have to leave insert mode.
======
ddgflorida
I got used to using jkhl when I starting using vi back in the 80s, so I still
use it. Don't forgot about w to jump between words, and several other single
key shortcuts.
------
dozzie
^F, ^B, ^E, ^Y, zj, zk. I rarely stay in INSERT mode.
> I'll admit it, I use arrow keys so I don't have to leave insert mode.
Nothing wrong with this approach. If it works for you and is convenient, stay
how you are. (Unless, of course, you _want_ to change.)
------
aaron-santos
hjkl, but I make a conscious effort to default to wbe0^$% along with the
useful I and A to move+insert. I've disabled arrow keys completely.
I can navigate horizontally without issue, but I find myself using jk{} to
navigate vertically which tends to be much less elegant. How to you gracefully
move vertically? :<n> to move to line number? Something else?
------
dutchrapley
jklh, especially handy when you use plugins like NERDTree.
I use vim with a couple dozen plugins as my main text editor every day.
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The Cost of My Mother’s Cardiac Care in the United States and India - denzil_correa
http://www.annfammed.org/content/12/5/470.long
======
zaptheimpaler
Coming from India, I have really come to hate the medical system here in the
US. There are countless times I have been screwed over by the lack of
transparency in cost and the layer of bureaucracy and BS imposed by having to
deal with an insurance company rather than __the doctor/hospital who treated
me__!!
It has been a few months since I have seen a doctor, but I still receive some
new goddamn bill every other day. They are usually cryptic and leave me
wondering what the hell they are for, and why they were not just presented to
me on the day of the test. Don't even bother asking anyone what a procedure
costs. Hospital staff will redirect you to someone who deals exclusively with
insurance (completely unnecessary if we just had simple bills like any other
transaction FFS), and the insurance people don't have enough specifics to ever
really give you an answer, not to mention the time it will take waiting on
hold etc. When you are getting multiple procedures, its just not worth the
time. So you are practically forced to go in completely blind about potential
costs.
To top it all off, my insurance coverage has expired as I recently graduated.
So my options are to either pay $600 for 30 days of medicine that I need, or
get the exact same medicine shipped to me from India, for $10-$20. They
produce it by the millions in blister packs. This should not be so difficult!
If we just had realistic prices in the first place instead of inflating them
and bringing them down with insurance, this crap would not happen.
And don't even get me started on "pre-existing conditions". What that means
for me is constantly lying to doctors and being unable to give them a complete
medical history - otherwise I'll have f __* "pre-existing condition" stamped
on my head and never get sane rates again.
I fail to see why health care is not treated more like a series of simple
business transactions in an economic system instead of this colossal mess.
/rant
~~~
chimeracoder
> And don't even get me started on "pre-existing conditions".
First, I would delete the sentence after this if I were you, since it could
come back to haunt you legally[0].
Second, unless things are different for foreigners in the US (which AFAIK is
not the case), this is not how pre-existing conditions actually work
(anymore), post-ACA.
[0] (I am not a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.)
> So you are practically forced to go in completely blind about potential
> costs.
This (price transparency) is actually the real problem more than the sticker
prices themselves.
If patients had the ability to know expected prices beforehand, market forces
would work to bring prices down. As it stands, we have a very awkward
situation in which _insurers_ compete to keep premiums down to attract
customers, and therefore negotiate lower prices with providers, but patients
are completely blind to this entire process and are unable to "vote with their
wallets", because the prices that patients pay and the prices that insurers
pay are not always directly linked in practice.
~~~
crag
"If patients had the ability to know expected prices beforehand, market forces
would work to bring prices down."
If patients knew to ask. Really. If you are covered by insurance (including
medicare/tri-care/etc) you won't get an answer. But if you are paying out of
pocket (and most hospitals require credit if you are doing something serious -
like open heart)you can negotiate the price.
Let me say again, the hospital will negotiate. The doctors and labs (not done
in the hospital) are another matter.
Also, if you see an aspirin on your bill costing $75 you need to call. You'd
be surprised how effective this is. Most Americans never question the price of
anything. Even cars these days people take at face value.
Of course, if you in the ER with chest pain, I'll admit, the last thing on
your mind is the bill. And the hospitals know that.
So what's the lesson here? In America have insurance. Even if you are 20 years
old. A simple care wreck can destroy you financially. You think student loans
are bad? Try a drug overdose. Or a heart attack. Or a fractured back ( a car
wreck). If you young, insurance is cheap. Dirt cheap.
~~~
maxxxxx
I haven't had much success getting prices when I had a high deductible
insurance. Most doctors won't tell you anything or they will quote you one
price today and 5 times as much tomorrow. You certainly won't get a binding
quote you can plan with.
------
acabal
I recently wrote on my blog about the cost of having a benign mole removed. I
got so angry when I heard the cost of that simple procedure that I went online
and calculated the cost to do it in Colombia, where I have some family. Long
story short, I estimated that it would be 34% cheaper to fly to Colombia, have
the same procedure done, _and_ have a full week's vacation (at hostel rates,
which is how I travel). _Everything, including airfare and a full week of food
and lodging, for 34% less than just the procedure in America!_
The best part is that I guesstimated the cost of the procedure in Colombia.
But _even if I tripled my guesstimate_ , it would still be cheaper to fly!
For time-insensitive or elective procedures, you can and should go abroad. The
real cruelty is people who don't have a choice--emergency situations, cancers,
etc. They're trapped in our hideous system and often have to choose between
their life savings and a lifetime of debt, and dying.
Our American approach to healthcare disgusts me. Every time I think about it I
get filled with rage.
~~~
cpwright
If you can shop around in the US for something like that it can matter too. To
correct my son's tongue tie the first ENT would have been over $1500 out of
pocket, including anesthesia. The second one did it in his office as part of
another appointment we had related to his hearing, total out of pocket $50.
IMO, The biggest problem is really lack of transparency for this stuff. If a
hospital takes government money (and pretty much every one of them does), it
should be required to publish its rates like a utility does.
~~~
danielweber
The more they deal with insured patients, the less ready they will be to give
you quotes. I was trying to find a news story of someone calling around to get
price quotes on procedures and many places just immediately hung up at the
question.
------
primitivesuave
I was traveling through India with my sister, and she got terrible food
poisoning. I put her in a private hospital, where she was given incredible
service and recovered within a four days. The hospital bill was only 8000
rupees, or ~$150. My sister told me of one nurse who gave her exceptional
care, so I tried to give that nurse a 5000 rupee ($100) tip. Without a moment
of hesitation, she flat-out refused. Her response brought tears to my eyes -
"Sir, this is my duty. There are poor people right outside, your money would
really help them."
As I talked to my relatives about what I experienced, I learned that Indian
medical staff see their job as their _dharma_ (duty), a belief that stems from
their medical training and originally from the _Bhagavad Gita_ , a religious
text that is central to Hinduism. If I had to state a particular reason for
the quality of Indian medical treatment, that's what it would be - that they
consider their jobs a sacred duty. When someone truly believes that their job
is a sacred duty, they will do it with a passion that cannot be artificially
reproduced by a huge salary or per-patient compensation.
~~~
pkaye
It is also because being a doctor is considered high status in India. Higher
than lawyers, businessmen, engineers. Also they also command a high income. So
what you did of offering a tip is more of an insult.
~~~
kamaal
>>Higher than lawyers, businessmen, engineers.
This was true at one point in time. May be around 2 decades back. But
engineering has gotten very lucrative due to the IT boom, overall growth in
economy and general demand for engineers in a high growth environment.
Also engineering has a lower barrier to entry and pays better than what many
physicians make these days. To make anything decent as a doctor you have to do
your MD, which is expensive both in terms of investment of time and money. And
even after that, the job at the hospital won't pay you anything close to what
your average engineer at a MNC would get paid.
And then don't forget the fact that many engineers can make money through side
projects, freelancing and take adhoc risks like doing start ups which isn't
even an option to most doctors.
------
jostmey
Awhile back I was struck by the sprawling medical campus at my University (in
the US). First I passed by the original hospital, a large six story structure.
Then I passed the new Children's hospital, an even larger building. Finally I
walked by the latest building under construction - a twelve story behemoth
spread over several city blocks.
It seems that every few years a new building is added, and each one is bigger
than the last. Something about the pattern felt vaguely familiar. What I asked
myself also exhibits unrestrained exponential growth like the pattern of
construction that I saw - then I realized the answer. A tumor!
~~~
forca
I voted you up. What you say is disturbing and true. American medicine treats
the symptoms and intentionally strings people along rather than cure the
underlying cause. There is no profit in curing cancer -- only in the
treatments. I'm convinced of this after having a few people I dearly loved die
in the American medical system. We need more of a system whereby our taxes are
used solely for the good of the people -- to improve our lives. It's sad,
really. As much money as the US has, we could have the highest standard of
living on the planet, but we're nowhere near that because of greed on the
parts of tax-dodging corporations, greedy capitalists, and a whole host of
other reasons.
------
yummyfajitas
Her experience is the same as mine.
I've had most of my medical care over the last few years done in India. This
includes LASIK (34k per eye), a selective nerve root blocker injection (8k)
and a micro lumbar discectomy (85k). I expect to have a second discectomy done
in the next month (being really tall sucks), provided my condition doesn't
worsen and I'm able to fly.
Overall, my experience with India's medical system has been fantastic. I've
found clean hospitals (not all of them!), total price was all completely
transparent (+/\- 10% of quoted price), and the doctors have generally been as
good as in the US.
Overall, for anyone needing significant medical work done, I strongly
recommend medical tourism.
Also, while you are there, have a custom suit made (particularly if you are
really tall, and ordinary clothes don't fit). But be warned - I spent more on
my suit than on the root blocker injection.
[edit: numbers in INR. Quick reference: 1 lac INR = 1600 USD. In spite of a
few years worth of inflation, I don't expect to spend more than 2k USD on back
surgery.]
[edit 2: 1 lac = 100,000.]
~~~
dpeck
Are these in USD or INR?
~~~
voxic11
I love how they work out to be about what it would cost in both countries
using their own currency.
------
jeromeparadis
When he was born, my son had cardiac surgery. Had another one 4 months later
and a catheter later on. The two surgeries were done by one of the top 10
surgeons in the world. All in all, he was 6 weeks in the hospital. He's now in
very good health. Since we live in Canada, it costs us nothing except the
parking at the hospital (about $120 total with a pass) and the lost work time.
~~~
forca
Free as it ought to be -- payed for out of yours and everyone's taxes. Parking
should have been free, to be honest. Nothing I hate more than seeing basic
services turned into money-making opportunities for the shady.
~~~
RealGeek
Since Canada doesn't spend trillions in wars and bailing out banks, they can
afford to provide healthcare to it's citizens.
~~~
mahyarm
Actually, Canada pays less on a per citizen basis than the US does on it's
health care. America can still have it's wars, bank bailouts and health care,
if they weren't politically gridlocked with the issue.
------
tn13
When two parties mutually agree on some deal they both feel satisfied and have
incentives to make each other happy. When the government decides what is the
"interest" of one party and steps in to "protect that interest", very likely
it will end up pissing off one party which eventually loses interest in any
kind of innovation.
US has achieved the rare distinction of screwing up both the parties in case
of healthcare.
Indian government in reality has even more laws and nonsense but it is too
incompetent to implement any of those laws. This mostly leaves the things in a
Laissez-faire situation. Like it happens in any Laissez-faire situation the
third parties see too many problems but the people who are actually affected
are more than happy because they are a better judge of their situation.
In my village in India, we have only 1 doctor. This doctor is a homeopathic
doctor who even today charges Rs 10 ( $0.16) per visit. He spends less than 5
minutes per patient and his treatment is allopathic. He moved from a distant
city to this village purely because homeopathic doctor giving allopathic
medicine is illegal.
Over last 30 odd years not only he has got rich but he is the most powerful
person in the village. He is very good at his job, has saved countless lives,
delivered babies, removed aching teeth and written countless death
certificates. Yes, there have been cases of wrong diagnosis and side-effects
too but overall he has lead to net positive benefit to the society in my
village and hence is revered.
Many proper doctors tried to setup their shop in my village and have failed
purely because this doctor turned out to be better than them.
In India, Indian Medical Council controls the total number of doctors in the
country but for a bribe of around $2M you can easily get a license to start a
medical school. Medical Schools make insane amount of money and thousands of
poor people enter the hospital everyday where you can get away making mistakes
because the choice before these poor people is "either get this treatment or
die in your home".
------
tn13
Another Note: Unlike best engineers in India, best doctors in India can not
migrate to US. Because of the sheer population, Indian doctors see 4x more
daily patients than their American counterparts perform far too many surgeries
very likely to have seen more corner cases than American doctors.
Indian doctors in average private hospitals are far more competent than
average American doctors.
It is good that American government is protecting jobs of American Doctors at
the expense of public health by barring entry to Indian doctors. We Indians
get cheaper and better healthcare. :P
Disclaimer: I worked for a large Cancer hospital in India.
------
RealGeek
I moved to US last year, and figured the healthcare system in US is the
biggest train wreck. It is not only super expensive, but also super
complicated. You have to jump through many hoops likes insurance, appointment
waiting list, mail order pharmacies (who always mess up your order), pre-
existing conditions etc.
We were denied treatment by our insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
Thankfully, Obamacare fixed it and we began to receive healthcare in 2014.
The prices of healthcare are artificially inflated so high so that it is not
affordable for most Americans, so they can be forced into the bizarre health
insurance system. This system only makes healthcare even more expensive due to
administrative costs and make it complicated for everyone. There should be no
place for a middleman in healthcare.
I recently went to see a doctor for a non-serious problem, and here is how it
worked out.
Steps to get medical care in US:
1) Call a specialist's office for appointment, and you will usually get a wait
list of 3 to 6 months.
2) After months of wait, you get to see the doctor who will diagnose you.
3) Doctor sends in your prescription to your mail order pharmacy.
4) Pharmacy messes up your order; it could be incorrect dosage, pre-
authorization, incorrect billing etc.
5) Your medication is delivered to you after few days, sometimes it can even
take weeks.
6) You get bills, which could be 10x higher than what you were expecting. Your
insurance company provides no explanation of the mysterious charges.
Costs: $50 co-pay, $450 for prescription.
Insurance claims: $700 specialist, $2750 prescription.
Here's how it works in India:
1) Call into doctor's office, you will usually get appointment for same day or
next day. You can even walk in without appointment.
2) The doctor diagnoses you, and write a prescription.
3) You take that prescription to any pharmacy, and buy the medications.
Costs: $10 to $20 fee for specialist, and $20 for prescription.
No Insurance required
Edit: I've compared prices of various medications in US and India. Most of the
medications in US cost 10x to 20x more than India.
~~~
vonmoltke
> 1) Call a specialist's office for appointment, and you will usually get a
> wait list of 3 to 6 months.
In the past year I have seen both a dermatologist and an orthopedist for the
first time. I never had to wait more than a week.
> 3) Doctor sends in your prescription to your mail order pharmacy.
Mine have always gone to the local pharmacy of my choice. Same for my wife.
> 5) You get bills, which could be 10x higher than what you were expecting.
> Your insurance company provides no explanation of the mysterious charges.
I rarely get bills after the fact, but they always itemize and explain the
charges. I also get statements showing what my insurance company paid.
~~~
RealGeek
> In the past year I have seen both a dermatologist and an orthopedist for the
> first time. I never had to wait more than a week.
Appointment times vary by type of specialist, location and luck. I've never
got any specialist's appointment before a month here in New York.
> Mine have always gone to the local pharmacy of my choice. Same for my wife.
I tried sending the prescription to local CVS pharmacy. CVS said that my
insurance only approved medication for 1 month, while my prescription was for
3 months. Moreover, they were charging me 4x copay than the mail-order
pharmacy that works with my insurance company. I guess this is another tactic
of my insurance company to maximize their profit by forcing us to buy
medication from their partner pharmacy.
> I rarely get bills after the fact, but they always itemize and explain the
> charges. I also get statements showing what my insurance company paid.
My Insurance company's partner pharmacy keeps charging me random amounts for
same mediation. I've been getting few medications for $37 each since past 6
months, but now they suddenly starting charging me $185 each for the same
medications without any explanation. I could buy the same medications in India
for less than $10 each.
------
AndrewKemendo
I feel like there is a lot of beating the dead horse with this issue.
Is there (holding the jingoistic flag wavers aside) any real disagreement on
the conclusion that the US healthcare system is terrible for the average user
- such that we need continual reminder?
Didn't the whole ACA debate prove that yes, we get it it's broken and there is
major popular support for changes, even if the actual changes made were not
themselves popular by a plurality?
~~~
danielweber
Everyone agrees that it needs to change.
There is little agreement on _how_ to change it. Most proposed changes are
"let's gore the other side's ox."
~~~
rodgerd
> There is little agreement on how to change it.
That's because, generally speaking, the more collectivist proposals rely on
evidence from the many, many countries that pay less for healthcare per-capita
and get better outcomes, while the side that feels a more lassaiz-faire
approach are relying on an essentialy religious position.
~~~
danielweber
The former group also ignores countries like India and Singapore, and pretend
that there is just one kind of health-care system everyone else uses,
sometimes calling vaguely calling it "single-payer." People like Ezra Klein
desperately try to correct these people, to no avail.
And after all, why should they care to learn the facts? All they need is
enough buzzwords to call the other side stupid on message boards, and they are
perfectly happy.
------
forca
Great read. This just show how evil for-profit medicine really is. The fact
that the pay is so high in the west is disturbing. I really pray we see a
single-payer socialised system in our lifetime in the US. Growing up with
socialised medicine has shown me the truth. No doctor, no matter how talented,
needs to make what they do. All of this should be government run as a non-
profit. Government should mandate and force all pharmaceutical companies into
non-profit status as well for the good of mankind.
I'm sick to death of not being able to go to hospital here in the US, even
with insurance, because what with the co-pays and deductibles, it costs a
fortune. I just don't go, and I am in need of surgery that I cannot afford.
QUESTION:
Would an Indian facility in India treat me for a relatively small amount of
money? Even after the flights, it would still be cheaper than the $22k I've
been quoted here by multiple sources.
~~~
yummyfajitas
_Great read. This just show how evil for-profit medicine really is._
I think you mean how evil semi-socialized, heavily regulated medicine really
is. India's medical system is as close to free market health care as I've ever
encountered.
You walk into a hospital, ask the price, pay it. If you don't like the price,
you can go to a different hospital and ask them. If you have insurance, you
send them the bill afterwards. That's basically it, and most hospitals are
for-profit. In my experience, the government hospitals are significantly
dirtier than the private ones. Employer sponsored health insurance isn't a big
thing. Doctors who won't talk to you without insurance [1] are more or less
nonexistent.
Most likely an Indian facility can treat you. The cost is unlikely to be more
than 1 or 2 lac (e.g. $3k tops), depending on your condition. Throw in another
$1k for the flight + $1k for a decent hotel. If you want to learn more, send
me an email.
[1] In the US I'm willing to pay cash for care before treatment, but most
doctors won't talk to me. I'm told it attracts undesired regulatory attention.
~~~
snlacks
The U.S. insurance system is not semi-socialized on that part, it is a result
of collusion between hospital administration and insurance companies to
maximize profits instead of health of the nation. Corporatism keeps laws on
the books that reduce competition and take the decisions out of the hands of
patients and doctors and puts it into bureaucrats.
Medicaid and Obamacare are the socialization aspects, which try to work within
the Corporatist solution... we should have and should just tear the whole
system apart.
Too many good minds work in billing and adminstrative research and
development, not in medical development.
Disclaimer: I make medical billing and administrative software. I have a job
because of a broken system... I'd sacrifice my comfort for a better system.
~~~
yummyfajitas
The US insurance system is heavily tuned to make some people pay for others.
Employer sponsored insurance, together with accompanying regulations about
individual costs, is tuned to make sure the smoker and the healthy person pay
the same price. See also community rating in the private market. On top of
that, the US government pays more for it's own socialized medical programs
than most other nations do.
And this isn't even getting into all the ways regulations micromanage doctors
and other parts of the system. Not to mention micromanage financial services -
India actually has innovation in that space.
Any theories which claim that for-profit systems are horrible need to be
tested against the Indian system. It's mostly for-profit, free market, etc -
all the incorrect claims people make about the US are pretty much true there.
~~~
chrisbennet
_Employer sponsored insurance, together with accompanying regulations about
individual costs, is tuned to make sure the smoker and the healthy person pay
the same price._
That is kind of what insurance is for though - to level out the cost for
everyone.
It's a common misconception that smokers cost society. The truth is, smokers
die earlier and cost tax payers less in insurance benefits and health care
than non-smokers. [1] We should be encouraging people to smoke if we want to
save money. (I'm joking!)
[1]
[http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal...](http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029)
~~~
yummyfajitas
_That is kind of what insurance is for though - to level out the cost for
everyone._
No, the point of insurance is to reduce the variance of an individual's future
cost. Due to the law of large numbers, averaging across independent
identically distributed people is equivalent to averaging over the future, but
that's a side effect.
Averaging over independent non-identically distributed people is NOT part of
insurance at all - that's what I'm describing as "the socialist part".
An example illustrating the difference - say you have 10 dice, and if a die
rolls a 6 it costs $1,000. You also have 10 coins, and if the coin comes up
heads, it costs $1,000. Insurance is when you charge the dice $166 and the
coins $500. Socialism is when you charge everyone $333 - that's redistribution
from the dice to the coins.
The link about smoking costs is interesting, however that applies at the level
of government paying for lifetime costs. Annual costs are higher. So insurance
_for this year_ should cost the smoker more than the healthy person.
------
discardorama
This reminds me of the case of a friend (who is from India) who went on
vacation to India. There, something went wrong and he suffered a herniated
disk in his back. He immediately went to the hospital. They took an MRI, and
advised surgery. He underwent the surgery, and then had a 1 month stay at home
with a nurse in attendance. Total cost came to about 200,000 rupees (about
$4000).
He came back to the US and then told the insurance company what had happened.
(He didn't know he had to inform the company when it happened). They balked at
paying his expenses, and came up with all sorts of excuses. Then he told them
the cost: $4000. The person he was talking to told him was shocked, saying
just an MRI here would have cost them more. They asked him to get an post-
surgery evaluation done by his primary physician, and paid the bill no
questions asked.
------
induscreep
But India is 24 hrs away by flight. If there was a list of countries with the
flight duration and cost of medical care, what countries would lie on the
Pareto front? What if you sorted by a "$-hr" metric?
~~~
mahyarm
You hear good things about Thailand and some South American countries.
------
it_learnses
We should still consider the fact that the author has a husband who's a
doctor, and has family from India and is herself from India. Not sure if the
costs would be the same if someone who hadn't been to India in a while or had
no family were to go to seek treatment. Someone could easily take advantage of
you and you'd hardly have any recourse.
~~~
yummyfajitas
I have no relatives in medicine (my sister trained as an EMT, but doesn't work
as such), I'm not from India and have no family there. They've been pretty
straightforward with me. The price they give me comes out of the same price
list as the price they give to everyone else.
Also, if they rob you it's still a great deal. Do you really care a lot
whether you spend $1k or $2k on surgery?
I haggle with autowallahs on principle, not because I care about paying 30rs
extra.
------
cdnsteve
Thank you for sharing. Not only cost is important but people seem to forget
about waiting times, the silent killer.
------
kr_60642
i am an indian living in the US for more than 10 years. Costs are cheaper in
India and the big hospitals usually have good quality care. The problem is
what happens when you have complications or side effects. In the US, you can
sue the hospital/doctor and expect to get paid. You can't do that in India
(cases drag on for decades).
------
zackmorris
Had a similar case with someone in Nicaragua. The procedure (including
diagnosis, medication etc) was $3,000 there whereas it would have been at
least $30,000 in the US. I think it goes well beyond cost of living
comparisons, because most things there cost perhaps 2-4 times less than here.
Even if we factor in that per-capita medical costs in the US are roughly
double the rest of the developed world ($6,000 vs $3,000) there is still
another multiplier of perhaps 2-3x for procedures.
I’m becoming more convinced every day that the US has become a two-tier
society. I (and many of my friends) have had some very lean years, earning
perhaps $7-15,000 and surviving. During those times, saving even $3,000 was
next to impossible, because we were already $5, $10, $20,000 in debt or more.
Multiply that by 10 and it’s effectively out of reach for, I don’t know, 90%
of the country. The standard deductible (which is looking like it’s going to
be about $6,000 under Obamacare) will often mean the loss of a home, vehicle,
or college savings, especially for chronic conditions.
Meanwhile the people who determine these rates (doctors, hospitals, medical
supply companies, insurance agencies) enjoy comfortable incomes of $50, $100,
$250,000 or more. I don’t think they are capable of setting rates ethically.
Throw in the fact that aging people are desperate and will basically pay
anything to live longer, and it’s an unavoidable conflict of interest.
I think the simplest solution to all of this (and probably the most
controversial) is to decouple medical research from practice. Ban all
medicine-related patents. Create low interest government matching funds for
the loans provided by supply companies to dentists and other independent
practitioners. Remove the regulations that prop up monopolists and rent
seekers. Start reducing the administrative layer that adds so much cost but so
little quality of care. Then protect doctors from frivolous lawsuits with a
bond system like plumbers and electricians use for catastrophic accidents so
they can perform the procedures they feel are needed instead of the ones
deemed “safest” or most profitable. Go after the true medical costs, the Erin
Brockovich type of coverups that cost the economy billions. And especially go
after the sources of illness - radiation from burning coal, carcinogens
released by fracking, a hamstrung FDA that doesn’t have the resources to test
interactions between thousands of household chemicals, carcinogenic herbicides
and pesticides used on genetically modified food, and so on.
I’ve heard the standard arguments about how all of this might disincentivize
medical research but I don’t buy them. The system we have now rewards
treatments more than cures, as evidenced by big pharma ads on TV for
irritable-whatever. If we really want to start over, we need to go back to
pre-Nixon, before HMOs and profit-driven care. We need to spend substantially
more on medical research than we do now (rather than practice), through
universities and big-data approaches where biologists and chemists can run
simulations and avoid human trials. Dump the current grant system and make
funding far more accessible so researching don’t spend all of their time
fundraising.
If we do all of this, we may just have a shot at cracking the underlying
mechanisms that cause illness, basically map every virus and bacteria, the
mechanisms through which genes control proteins, how we age and repair damage,
etc etc. We should be growing replacement organs by now. We should have cured
chronic conditions like diabetes and arthritis years ago and gotten cures for
allergies, asthma and autism for free since similar pathways are at work.
Right now we are doing little to no prevention, charging just enough to keep
people from going to the doctor at early stages of illness, and then charging
an arm and a leg for the medical equivalent of disaster cleanup. It’s really
quite remarkable, and sad.
~~~
ceejayoz
Generally agree, but a couple quibbles:
> protect doctors from frivolous lawsuits with a bond system
Malpractice suits only make something like 1% of healthcare costs, and
malpractice insurance is already everywhere.
> big-data approaches where biologists and chemists can run simulations and
> avoid human trials
We don't know enough about the human body to be able to accurately do this.
Might help for initial tests (and already does, I'd imagine), but you still
always need clinical trials.
~~~
danielweber
_Malpractice suits only make something like 1% of healthcare costs, and
malpractice insurance is already everywhere._
This isn't measuring the right thing. Pretend that some lawyers managed to win
a case locally that the "standard of care" for a shoulder injury was an MRI,
even through there is no medical reason, because a bunch of doctors in one
hospital did it for whatever reason.
Now all the doctors in town rapidly move to MRI'ing every shoulder injury so
they don't get sued. This doesn't show up in the malpractice premium numbers.
"Standard of care" is strictly a one-way ratchet. If enough doctors in your
town/county/field do something, you have to do it, too. You can have
comparative results research as long as your arm showing it has no benefit
(and even creates slight radiation risks) and it won't do you any good.
"Standard of care" is the legal term of art, and it always increases, never
decreases.
Two more pieces of evidence that lawsuits matter [1]
1\. Vaccine manufacturers were going to stop making vaccines because the
lawsuit risk was getting too high. (Vaccines do have risks, although minor.)
The vaccine courts were set up and everyone seems pretty happy with it.
2\. Hillary Clinton's health care plan from 1993 had a whole bunch of tort
reform. This is _not_ because the Clintons hated trial lawyers! But they
didn't want the courts to be the ultimate arbiters of how much medical care
someone should get. You would not be allowed to sue for malpractice without
first going through an arbitration process.
[1] I'm not blaming everything on lawsuits. But you couldn't run an NHS-like
system privately in the US.
------
lizzard
I hope she knows all the lyrics to The Ramones' "Teenage Lobotomy".
"Then I guess I'll have to tell 'em / That I've got no cerebellum."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ssoBUb2cJk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ssoBUb2cJk)
~~~
danielweber
You can delete your own posts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
“Some Puzzles for Libertarians”, Treated as Writing Prompts for Short Stories - rayalez
http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/02/21/current-affairs-some-puzzles-for-libertarians-treated-as-writing-prompts-for-short-stories/
======
saundby
I can't help but wish we'd seen where the rapping Alexander Hamilton's
thoughts were going.
But of course I'd think that, having been a wobbler on the Firewood Test. ;)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
RiveScript – A Simple Scripting Language for Chatbots - nikolay
https://www.rivescript.com/
======
nikolay
Here you can find some samples:
[https://www.rivescript.com/about](https://www.rivescript.com/about)
~~~
S4M
This is a nice example to use RiveScript in python, as I found the docs on
pypy a bit lacking: [https://github.com/aichaos/rivescript-
python](https://github.com/aichaos/rivescript-python)
------
AstroJetson
This looks cool, but there doesn't appear to be a way to get info about where
the user ended up in the script. It would be nice if there was a way to tell
an external system what happened in the chat.
~~~
kirsle
You can! Use the functions `get_uservars()` and `set_uservars()` to export and
re-import variables from your program.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fact-checking Byzantine astrologers - benbreen
http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/magic-shows/accounting-standards
======
engi_nerd
Lapham's Quarterly is a treasure trove of things like this. It's well worth
the $39/year. And no, I'm not affiliated with it in any way. It's a magazine
that appeals to the same part of me that always liked James Burke's
"Connections", because each issue traces a different concept through various
eras and prominent people.
~~~
JoBrad
He had a short TV show that I loved (also called Connections)
~~~
engi_nerd
He had several Connections series, as I recall. All absolutely excellent.
------
acqq
From:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexiad](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexiad)
"The Alexiad (original Greek title: Ἀλεξιάς, Alexias) is a (...) historical
and biographical text written around the year 1148 by the Byzantine historian
and princess Anna Komnene, daughter of Emperor Alexius I."
------
natch
That was interesting.
Not the text, so much. But the experience of reading it while assuming the
writer was contemporary.
At first I thought: this writing is weird. Was this even written by a human?
Is this one of those generated articles written by programs that generate text
for adword spamming?
Then I read more carefully (was curious not about the content, because there
wasn't much meat to it, but about the writer) and noticed the "my father"
part, and realized why it was so weird.
Which raises the question: would an ancient person, even assuming good
translation, pass a Turing test?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Every '… is down' posts. - zachinglis
I wanted to complain on the GitHub thread but I wanted to hear the rest of the community's opinions before I spoke.<p>What's everyone's views on the "Github is down", "Heroku is down." To me, they clutter what's meant to be about news, and exciting new developments. Often I think of these as karma bait (though I don't always assume that of everyone - I believe there are genuine people.)<p>It doesn't help anyone though, does it? If Github's not working for me, I'll check "isitdownforeveryoneorjustme", ask on Twitter or prod someone on IM. To me it's noise?<p>Do people find them interesting? Or beneficial to the community? If so, what is it that I'm missing?
======
Metatron
They do seem a bit pointless, especially when the problem will be self-
evident, and verifiable with one Google search. They get even more pointless
when they get spammed, because nobody checks the feed before posting.
It's also fairly off-topic. It's categorically not news, nor is it startup
promotion. I don't get the logic either. just because you can do it, doesn't
mean you should. I could post what I had for lunch as a thread, but I won't, I
understand context. I'm getting fairly angsty about it now, or at least
sounding angsty. But it doesn't bother me a lot, I just move on to the next
item. I still think it should be kept to a minimum though, after all if we
don't keep some semblance of order then HN will just waste away with low
quality items and people will move on. Although that might not be a bad thing
if a better replacement pops up.
------
dholowiski
I think "x is down" posts are relativley meaningless anyway. For many
(especially the larger) services with multiple components,spread over many
servers and data centers, what does it really mean to be down? If I can't sign
in is it down? If nobody on the west coast of Canada can get in, is it down?
If you can read, but not post is it down - if the front end is up but the
database is not, is it down?
It's pretty rare that 'gmail is down'... much more likely that x% of gmail
users are having issues. Let's save the 'x is down' post for when it really is
'down'.
------
damian2000
I see it as useful sometimes if I didn't hear about it from some other means.
Maybe they also serve as a discussion point for people to have a bitch about
the downtime?
~~~
masterzora
I'm curious as to how it's useful if you didn't hear about it. If you attempt
to go to the site, you will see it's down. You will waste negligibly more time
than reading the words "Site is down" but you will only waste this time if you
actually try to go to the site. It's not particularly useful if you aren't
trying to use the site but it still takes up a slot on the front page.
~~~
001sky
Like a traffic jam. Its obvious once you're in it. Sometimes, nice to know not
to bother. Etc.
~~~
masterzora
Unlike with a traffic jam, bothering has a very small cost, especially as
compared to the cost of reading "X is down" on the HN front page.
~~~
001sky
Understood, but still if XYZ is down at 9AM and you don't need to go there
untill 11AM, you're not likely going to check. So then, you go about doing PQR
task all morning, to then find out its still F@cked at 11AM. So, the cost is
not the 30 seconds to figure it out, but the whole AM you wasted.
Or alternatively, all the time you pre-emtively are checking all over the
place at T-1 for using it at T. Depending upon the resolution of this, that
can be a PITA and a waste of time. Far more than you skipping over 1/30 of a
page on the internet.
Alternatively, there may be some better way to do it. There could be a
list/screen for relevance to the community or a seperate page or whatever. But
one needs to address or dimensionalize the tension between information flow
and efficiency a bit more than your first formulation.
------
hiddenstage
These are services that a lot of HN users use. Also, the discussion and cause
of the down time could lead to good advice for members.
~~~
mooism2
I do wish that if, say, GitHub is down, people wouldn't post a link to GitHub
that _won't load because GitHub is down_.
If people want to post a link to a GitHub status page that provides more
information, then fair enough. And if people just want to discuss the outage
and there's no good source of information to link to then make it a self-post.
But linking to a site that's down seems perverse.
------
27182818284
Postmortems are interesting. The "is down" posts are not.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Winter Olympics: Elizabeth Swaney the 'best' and Worst' Olympian - The_Fox
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43123398
======
orangecat
"What do you call the person who graduates from medical school at the bottom
of their class?"
"Doctor"
She had a goal, recognized she wasn't going to achieve it with the
conventional approach, and found an alternate solution without lying or
cheating. Good for her.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Theory of Interstellar Trade (1978) [pdf] - dirtyaura
https://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/interstellar.pdf
======
AceJohnny2
I believe cstross's book Neptune's Brood is based on ideas from this paper.
[http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/09/crib-
she...](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/09/crib-sheet-
neptunes-brood.html)
Which is funny, considering older Krugman's a fan of Stross's other book
series The Merchant Princes, which also tries to have a solid economic
backbone.
[http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/more-science-
fic...](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/more-science-fiction-for-
economists-seriously-time-wasting/)
~~~
Terr_
I'm struggling to remember the novel, but there was another book where some
aliens created an antimatter-generating system around a star, using the dip in
the star's brightness to tell if another civilization was tapping it.
One of their N-removed feudal client races would then come and conquer your
primitive society, unless you managed to decode the rest of their message and
further demonstrate you were advanced enough to operate your own government
across relativistic distances and timespans.
~~~
AceJohnny2
The premise sounds like Count To A Trillion by John C. Wright.
Of which I loved the idea, but was very disappointed by the realization.
~~~
Terr_
That's it, thanks.
------
numlocked
This is by Paul Krugman??!
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman)
That this is written by a Nobel Prize winner and NYT columnist definitely
makes it a bit more noteworthy.
~~~
javert
I think it makes it less noteworthy.
Among Krugman's other "accomplishments" is this quote:
"The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's
law'–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is
proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent:
most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become
clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the
fax machine's."
~~~
jkyle
Krugman's response in a letter to Business Insider. Business Insider was
asking him about that quote and about his recent commentary on Bitcoin.
_Well, two things._
_First, look at the whole piece. It was a thing for the Times magazine 's
100th anniversary, written as if by someone looking back from 2098, so the
point was to be fun and provocative, not to engage in careful forecasting; I
mean, there are lines in there about St. Petersburg having more skyscrapers
than New York, which was not a prediction, just a thought-provoker._
_But the main point is that I don 't claim any special expertise in
technology -- I almost never make technological forecasts, and the only reason
there was stuff like that in the 98 piece was because the assignment required
that I do that sort of thing. The issues about Bitcoin, however, are not
technological! Everyone agrees that it's technically very sweet. But does it
work as money? That's a very different kind of question._
_And the fact that people are throwing around my 98 quote actually shows that
they don 't get this point -- that they're confusing technology with monetary
economics._ \-- Krugman, Business Insider Letter
[[http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-responds-to-
inte...](http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-responds-to-internet-
quote-2013-12)]
~~~
CamperBob2
How can you understand and write about economics if you get something as
fundamentally change-provoking as technology wrong?
~~~
fsloth
While politicians who like to defer responsibility to economists would want
their electorate to believe otherwise, economists are not soothsayers. They
are familiar with some ideal models for modeling economic systems of a few
variables that may or may not hold up depending on the actual market
conditions.
Economic forecasts are a bit like really bad weather forecasts - given a few
variables and that nothing changes they may hold up.
But they cannot predict what will change and what effects it will have. Like
the long term implications of internet.
For small systems with stable technologies like markets for a limited set of
products some macroeconomic rules may hold up pretty well. But for large scale
economies the economic decisions are as much political as fiscal, and the
soundness of the decisions can be found out only in retrospect...
------
nabla9
Krugman loves science fiction. He said that he wanted to stydy psycohistory
described in the Foundation series, but chose economics because it was the
closest thing you can actually study.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_%28fictional%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_%28fictional%29)
------
andrewflnr
It seems to me that the scariest part of doing interstellar finance is the
concern that the institutions that, say, enforce bonds (or otherwise give them
meaning, I'm not sure of the mechanics) will disappear sometime during your
round trip. A lot can happen in 50 years, much more in a 500 year interstellar
round trip. I would expect interstellar trade to stick with "real" goods only
for this reason.
------
kbenson
Submitted multiple times before, but here's the only one I saw with comments,
in case some finds something interesting.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=818706](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=818706)
------
DavidSJ
See also Relativistic Statistical Arbitrage:
[http://www.alexwg.org/publications/PhysRevE_82-056104.pdf](http://www.alexwg.org/publications/PhysRevE_82-056104.pdf)
------
GregBuchholz
More interesting is what resources or products would be potential candidates
for interstellar trade.
~~~
api
Probably information -- art, music, culture, scientific discoveries,
technological blueprints (that could be "printed" anywhere), software, genetic
material, anything informational.
Information has the benefit of weighing nothing and being easily transmissible
at the speed of light.
This is also probably true for interplanetary trade, such as with a Mars
colony... though return of very precious materials via something inexpensive
like gun launch can't be totally ruled out.
Going full sci-fi mode: if something like consciousness uploading were
possible, it would also be possible for people to travel interplanetary and
interstellar distances at the speed of light _as information_ as long as
something at the other end existed to reconstitute them. So one mechanism of
interstellar colonization would be to send unmanned drone ships first, then
encode ourselves and go.
~~~
_random_
Yes, long-term everything could be printed via nano-robots. Even if not
directly but as a sequence of building different plants. So something like a
seed nano-robot colony + manufacturing blue-prints.
~~~
api
Interstellar migration could be not unlike booting an embedded device via a
slow serial link. First send the slow robotic "boot loader," then use it to
download the colonists to the new star system and boot up a civilization.
Matter is everywhere. Information is what it's all about, and information
travels at 'c'.
~~~
Normati
It might not be practical to send information as light. You'd need a powerful
transmitter so your signal can be detected among the noise from stars. It
might turn out that sending a spaceship is actually cheaper and just about as
fast. The spaceship can steer itself and doesn't spread out the further it
goes.
~~~
sanxiyn
I think galactic civilization will either solve noise problem or install
enough repeaters if that's cheaper. Repeater network will have enormous fixed
cost, but I don't think its variable cost will be higher than spaceships.
------
aswanson
Interesting. Krugman has said that he got interested in economics because it
was the closest thing in reality to psychohistory as described in Asimov's
Foundation series. Of course, any society capable of interstellar trade would
be beyond scarcity and hence economics as we know it. But fun, nonetheless.
~~~
caretcaret
You say that, but go back a few hundred years and you can make an analogous
statement about worldwide trade. Yet, our consumption of resources have
increased to meet the level of production, and scarcity still exists.
~~~
aswanson
You have to get a grasp on the scale of the cosmos to understand what I mean.
To get to the nearest star system, alpha centauri, you would need a
matter/antimatter reactor that would turn approximately 10 kilograms of mass
into pure energy to approach .8c, where c is the speed of light ( and the
assumption here is that we acheive near 100 percent efficiency in our
propulsion mechanism, which is impossible). Any society capbable of doing so
would be far beyond celestial scavenging for a few trinkets, in the same
manner that our global economy is beyond scavenging for artifacts from
brazilian tribal rituals, historical curiousity notwithstanding.
------
geoffreyhale
"It should be noted that, while the subject of this paper is silly, the
analysis actually does make sense. This paper, then, is a serious analysis of
a ridiculous subject, which is of course the opposite of what is usual in
economics."
------
crimsonalucard
I'm actually more interested in the theory behind how he got a grant to write
this. Interesting nonetheless!
~~~
GabrielF00
I think that line was a joke.
~~~
GregBuchholz
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece_Award](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece_Award)
~~~
HCIdivision17
Man, the wiki page really makes him look like a short-sighted jerk. A lot of
those items are the stereotypical headlines that lack the needed context.
Like the $3k for if military should use umbrellas in the rain: well, _should_
they? Perhaps only officers, so soldiers have their hands free? Maybe we
should just contract a clip of some kind that will hold the umbrella to their
gear? Or maybe it's only worth it on base? I mean, how far will $3k even go -
a week or so of consultant time?
Or the $57k for measuring stewardesses. These are the people who may still be
moving about the cabin while everyone else is seated. How do we decide how
much a seat on a $100,000,000 plane needs? Can the seat be wider just above
the waist of the lady, such that the seats can slightly encroach on the isle?
(Big money to be had there possibly - though it's worth noting the 1975
flights likely still had an implicit assumption about stewardess ... styling.)
Is it reasonable the typical rider can squeeze past a stewardess? How often
and with what kind of difficulty? Will they be required to get out of the way
in the event of an emergency or should they stay to direct, potentially
blocking the path? In this case, we spent about $130 bucks a few hundred
times. An engineer needed those numbers somewhere down the line, and hopefully
some insight was gained. Never mind that someone had the (likely) enviable job
of measuring the fitting of a few hundred 1970s-style stewardesses.
I'm not saying a lot of the stuff's doesn't make me gloriously incredulous,
but it's super easy to just take something at face value and just mock it.
(Not that your linking it implies anything - people who mock like Proxmire
just get my goat.)
------
stox
Did you know that if you took all the economists in the world and lined them
up end to end, they'd still point in the wrong direction?
s/world/interstellar trade routes/
------
widowlark
Its interesting to me that this is written by Krugman. I am glad to see that
he has read The High Frontier, Its one of my personal favorites.
------
BerislavLopac
This is essentially The Martian of the pre-Internet era.
------
java-man
Where is Figure II?
~~~
_ihaque
On page 7!
"Readers who find Figure II puzzling should recall that a diagram of an
imaginary axis must, of course, itself be imaginary."
------
happyscrappy
"This paper extends interplanetary trade theory to an interstellar setting. It
is chiefly concerned with the following question: How should interest charges
on goods in transit be computed when goods travel at close to the speed of
light? This is a problem because the time taken in transit will appear less to
an observer traveling with the goods than to a stationary observer. A solution
is derived from economic theory, and two useless but true theorems are
proved."
He goes on to say this work may have some galactic relevance and that the
force is with him.
------
unknown_apostle
He's so funny and smart, and yet guys like him are one of the bigger obstacles
on this planet to accumulating enough capital to finance space exploration.
Makes you think...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tell HN: I created a google group for offline web applications - Tichy
http://groups.google.com/group/offline-web-applications
======
Tichy
Couldn't find that many resources, so I thought a place to discuss the issues
surrounding HTML5 offline web apps might be a good idea.
I wanted to use Zed's new groups thing as it's supposed to be spam free, but
couldn't find it easily. Is it still around? So a tired Google group for now.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Parking Lot design Problem - ranjeethacker
Please provide feedback [<a href="https://github.com/ranjeet-floyd/ParkingLotProblem" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/ranjeet-floyd/ParkingLotProblem</a>]
Problem statement :
[<a href="https://github.com/ranjeet-floyd/ParkingLotProblem/blob/master/ParkingLot-%20Problem.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/ranjeet-floyd/ParkingLotProblem/blob/mast...</a>]
This code was rejected in one of Company interview, stating desing is not good.
======
GrumpyNl
Wow, did you read the rules? Point 9 says, don't make this public, and here
you are.
------
eralpb
I spotted the problem, it is Java in 2017.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NASA Spots Structure at the Edge of the Solar System - virtualthings
https://differentimpulse.com/nasa-spots-structure-at-the-edge-of-the-solar-system/
======
lingzb
Hopefully the new satellite spots Planet X soon as well
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Embracing the Laws of Physics: Three Reversible Models of Computation - adamnemecek
https://arxiv.org/abs/1811.03678
======
evincarofautumn
The language they introduce, Π, is essentially a simple concatenative
programming language where all of the primitive combinators happen to be
reversible; the graphical depiction is essentially the same as graphical
linear algebra¹, which is no coincidence. Concatenative combinator calculus is
related to combinatory logic—specifically, it’s a variation that replaces
_application_ of combinators with _composition_ , leading to a bunch of nice
mathematical properties. Both of these logics have the nice feature that you
can _syntactically_ restrict the substructural rules of contraction
(dropping), exchange (swapping), and weakening (copying): for example, a well-
formed program that doesn’t use the K combinator to drop a value is
_guaranteed_ to be linear, i.e., not destroy any information. This isn’t true
in ordinary lambda calculus, where you can use a variable zero or many times,
so you need additional checks on the uses of a variable to determine whether a
function is linear, affine, &c.
I like the theory of concatenative programming languages because they provide
an elegant compositional/dataflow-oriented style of programming, have deep
connections to linear logic, Hughes’ “arrows”, effects & coeffects, and
quantum/reversible computation, while _also_ admitting very efficient
implementation on classical hardware.
I’m (very slowly) working on a statically typed low-level concatenative
language that’s meant to provide all the nice high-level typed functional
language features like higher-order functions, pipeline-style programming, and
effects tracked in the types, while requiring no runtime support such as a
tracing garbage collector—the ultimate goal is to allow a restricted subset
that doesn’t even require a heap allocator, so you could use it to implement
e.g. a kernel or device firmware. I hope that concatenative languages find
their way to the mainstream as the basis for programming quantum and extremely
low-power computing devices (which we will need in order to reduce emissions).
¹ [https://graphicallinearalgebra.net/](https://graphicallinearalgebra.net/)
------
whatshisface
>> _Proposition IV. That axiom of metaphysicians which is termed the principle
of contradiction, and which affirms that it is impossible for any being to
possess a quality, and at the same time not to possess it, is a consequence of
the fundamental law of thought, whose expression is x^2=x_
> _This “law” is reasonable in a classical world but is violated by the
> postulates of quantum mechanics_
I think this might be a little bit of a stretch, if a particle is in a
superposition of states it's not contradictory about which state it is in,
it's just in a superposition of both. I think a good analogy for that would be
your keyboard, which is located at the Q key as well as the M key.
------
User23
The Feynman lectures on Computation provide good background on reversible
computation from the perspective of a brilliant physicist.
[https://www.scribd.com/doc/52657907/Feynman-Lectures-on-
Comp...](https://www.scribd.com/doc/52657907/Feynman-Lectures-on-Computation)
------
scentoni
for background:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredkin_gate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredkin_gate)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toffoli_gate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toffoli_gate)
~~~
Cobord
Shameless Plug:
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.08865](https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.08865)
------
WAthrowaway
Hmm would software like Nix function as a practical example of 'reversible
computing'?
~~~
qubex
No: Reversible Computing embraces the (quantum mechanical) notion that
information cannot ever be lost ( _cfr_ the “Black Hole Information Paradox”),
and that therefore the output of a computation can only be a _reshuffled_ but
_complete_ permutation of the input. Nix (for example) allows you to delete
stuff and/or initialise a variable by zeroing it out and thus obliterating
information. A reversible computing paradigm would not allow this. (In
practical terms this information is dissipated as heat when memory deletes
information.)
~~~
krastanov
I am confused by the downvotes. The above post is correct even if not using
the clearest of phrasings.
But I would like to nitpick: You really do not need to involve quantum
mechanics. These effects are present in classical thermodynamics. They are
just more explicit in quantum mechanics.
------
scottlocklin
" both these fundamental physical theories imply that information is a
conserved quantity of physical processes and hence of primitive computational
operations."
No, actually they do not. Jayzus. Peer review is obviously dead.
~~~
foxes
Anyone can post on arxiv.
Quantum computation is reversible in terms of applying unitary gates to
qubits.
However doing IO - breaking entangled states, or interacting with the outside
world, is not reversible in a practical sense.
~~~
scottlocklin
Like classical reversible computing (which theoretically can mean P=NP),
quantum computation fails to exist in the actual world; probably for the same
reasons.
I think it's not quite true anyone can post on arxiv, and I wager 10 quatloos
that this goes into some non-obscure physics journal and is presented to great
acclaim, despite being as dumb as a bag of hammers.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Oolite space game in HTML5/WebGL - grondilu
http://grondilu.github.io/oolite/test-coriolis.html
======
bemmu
Bring on the flashbacks of all those hopeless docking attempts in Elite.
------
chazu
Very cool - I look forward to digging through the code sometime, thanks for
sharing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Compiler Basics: LLVM - eatonphil
http://notes.eatonphil.com/compiler-basics-llvm.html
======
thisacctforreal
Is there any sense in compiling human-readable LLVM IR, like many compile-to-C
languages aim to do?
I imagine doing so wouldn't have much value, as nobody programs in the IR.
~~~
civility
He's implementing his own language, so it seems it would be useful for
debugging his own compiler. In other words, the IR he's generating is not
really for anybody else, it's for himself.
~~~
chc4
You can trivially dump your module to a file with the actual LLVM API using
`LLVMPrintModuleToFile`, even if the module is in the middle of being built.
It's easier to emit human-readable LLVM IR if you're just playing around (or
are using a language without good LLVM bindings), but it's strictly inferior
to using the actual API
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Diabetes Cure That Most Insurance Companies Won't Pay For - victorbojica
https://gizmodo.com/the-diabetes-cure-that-most-insurance-companies-wont-pa-1826946364
======
stephengillie
> _In May 2016, however, Benari received a procedure known as a gastric
> bypass, a laparoscopic surgery that gave him something few of the 30 million
> diabetic Americans ever have—a life free of insulin therapy and other
> medications._
The article keeps calling this a "cure" to diabetes. If anything, it's a cure
to the "never feeling full" sensation that leads some (usually mildly
autistic) people to constantly eat. And this constant overeating is what leads
to the diabetes.
Having known people who had gastric bypasses, it's far from a miracle cure.
The procedure causes many issues, from intestinal discomfort to life-
threatening complications. Treating the procedure with such rose-colored
glasses could be considered harmful.
\---
Part of the reason nobody wants to pay for it is it costs as much as a Model
3:
> _The estimated average cost of bariatric surgery is around $15,000,
> according to a 2017 review. But even these estimates might be underselling
> it. Benari recalls that his surgery, with expenses before and afterward, was
> about $35,000 without insurance. The price tag kept him from pursuing the
> procedure for almost a decade._
And an interesting reaction - the person briefly considered gaining 40 pounds,
but instead of considering losing 40 pounds, they guilt-tripped their employer
into paying for it.
> _“Obviously I couldn’t gain 40 pounds so I could get surgery—that’d be
> suicidal. I just held off, trying to not think about it,” he said.
> “Eventually, through a lot of back and forth, nagging and whining, I
> convinced [Microsoft’s] HR department to overhaul their policy and allow
> people in my situation to get the surgery done.”_
~~~
martin_bech
Nope it really is a cure. I know people involved with diabetes research, and
it really is a cure, and they dont know why. Its not because of the weight
loss, because it is instant! They day the get the surgery, the loose the
Diabetes II. (The people I know, work at Novo Nordisk, i would think its the
world leader in diabetes and diabetes related research.)
~~~
kmundnic
What if they gain weight again, months or years after surgery? Does diabetes
come back?
~~~
martin_bech
Im not doing the research, so I cant answer, but it dosent seem to be weight
related, as they loose the diabetes on same day as surgery. They loose none of
the weight on surgery,
------
zerohp
> “My diabetes went into remission basically immediately, almost that same
> day. And I’ve been off insulin for about 8 months now,”
That's not because of the surgery. It's because he was forced into an extended
fast before (and after) the surgery. Type 2 diabetes reverses almost
immediately with fasting.
I have no personal involvement with Dr. Jason Fung's clinic in Canada, but he
claims to reverse type 2 diabetes in virtually every case.
[https://idmprogram.com/](https://idmprogram.com/)
~~~
aviv
Exactly. Fasting cures diabetes as well as a host of many other "incurable"
"diseases". But there is no money in fasting, so our messed up world continues
to reject it as a valid solution.
~~~
Dirlewanger
Sad that people are already downvoting you, and sad that more people don't
know about other options than medication/surgery.
Here's a link to Dr. Fung's article specifically on reversing type 2 diabetes
([https://idmprogram.com/reverse-type-2-diabetes-the-quick-
sta...](https://idmprogram.com/reverse-type-2-diabetes-the-quick-start-
guide/)).
Keep downvoting me too, Big Pharma.
~~~
throwaway5752
People are downvoting the parent to your comment because of the _" a host of
many other "incurable" "diseases"_ part. It's unsubstantiated and unspecific,
and it jumps right to conspiracy theory.
People are downvoting you because you are violating at least 3 site guidelines
(commenting about voting, alleging astroturfing/shillage, and being civil).
Particularly when you could have made a constructive argument and tried to
elaborate what conditions it cured, what studies were behind it (maybe
summarizing Dr. Fung's research), or other more valuable contributions.
~~~
JakeTyo
These are probably the same people who think CNN is "fake news".
------
cadamson
This is clickbait at best, and isn't a cure for Diabetes. Yes it will help a
very small fraction of those that suffer from Type 2, but on the whole the
article (title especially) is very misleading.
------
iamt2
There is a distinct difference between Type 2 diabetes "cure" and "reversal".
Reversal: what is being described here. Symptoms go away, and the longer you
pursue the treatment, more difficult it becomes to clinically determine you
ever had the metabolic disorder in the first place. _However_ , the latent
characteristics that made you first susceptible still exist.
Cure: you not only reverse, but you could stuff your face with pizza and Ho Ho
pastries, wash it down with a gallon of Mountain Dew, and your blood sugar
hardly budges, like normal people.
We do not have a cure. Short of genetically rewiring _in vivo_ , or similar
advancement, we won't see a cure. However, ongoing improvement of our
understanding of how our bodies work continue to make it simpler than ever
before to reverse Type 2. Simple doesn't mean easy, though.
~~~
simonsarris
> wash it down with a gallon of Mountain Dew, and your blood sugar hardly
> budges, like normal people.
If by "normal people" you mean "pre-diabetic", maybe.
Any cure to snake bites requires not getting bitten again.
------
21
Is drastically restricting the amount you eat equivalent to gastric bypass? Or
is there something more?
Put another way: is gastric bypass a way of solving the psychological problem
of eating too much, the lack of will to stop eating?
~~~
Pete_D
There could be more to it. There's a hypothesis that microbiome changes could
be a contributing factor[0].
Restricting food intake is similar in that it reduces stomach capacity[1],
though almost certainly not as drastically as surgery. Lots of people have
already mentioned fasting in this thread; I'll add an anecdote that for a few
days after a fast, I get full _much_ more quickly.
[0] [https://biodesign.asu.edu/news/dramatic-shift-gut-
microbes-a...](https://biodesign.asu.edu/news/dramatic-shift-gut-microbes-and-
their-metabolites-seen-after-weight-loss-surgery)
[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8561056?itool=EntrezSyst...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8561056?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1)
------
BlakePetersen
Dang. I was hoping they perfected pancreatic beta islet transplantation...
That is a terribly misleading title and a major click-bait let-down for Type
1s hopeful for an _actual_ cure for diabetes.
------
lolc
As a type 1 diabetic myself I'm highly skeptical of the claims. There is wide
consensus that most people with type 2 diabetes could reverse it if they
changed eating habits and exercised more. In fact many do! Those that don't
could possibly profit from a surgery. But that's admitting defeat really.
I sure hope for people who undergo this surgery do see an improvement. I just
hope they got briefed on how they could try without it before having their
stomach mutilated. This article does a very bad job of it. As if the surgery
were a miracle cure.
------
turc1656
"The net result is that less food can fit in the stomach, and there’s much
_less time for that food to be turned into calories_ before it exits the body.
The vertical sleeve gastrectomy, the most popular surgery in recent years,
only tinkers with the stomach, using staples to turn it into a small banana-
shaped organ."
Oh, so the "cure" was to make sure his body consumes/processes less calories?
And this is considered some novel solution? Is this a joke?
And then there's this technically accurate but misleading sentence - _" But
Benari, now 44, was a very unusual patient in one clear way: He wasn’t
obese._" True. He wasn't obese. But he was overweight - _" Benari’s BMI before
he underwent the surgery hovered around 28, which made him modestly overweight
but not obese."_ Being overweight _or_ obese is a textbook sign of being a
diabetic, pre-diabetic, or at-risk for diabetes, as your metabolic functions
are most likely comprised to at least some degree which results in the symptom
of excess weight. The article tries to mislead the reader to thinking that
because he wasn't technically full blown obese by clinical definitions he was
somehow an exceptional outlier. Nonsense.
This man was clearly consuming too much food or food other than carbs that
also results in blood sugar spikes (excess protein is metabolized in much the
same way), which is why the restriction of caloric intake worked for him. The
part at the beginning about him being restricted from "most carbs" seems
irrelevant in that context, especially when you factor in the knowledge that
he was already confirmed to be compromised and a full blown diabetic.
~~~
scarface74
_And then there 's this technically accurate but misleading sentence - "But
Benari, now 44, was a very unusual patient in one clear way: He wasn’t obese."
True. He wasn't obese. But he was overweight - "Benari’s BMI before he
underwent the surgery hovered around 28, which made him modestly overweight
but not obese."_
BMI is a poor measurement for obesity. Especially without knowing his body
makeup.
When I was in the best shape of my life - a part time fitness instructor,
worked out 10 hours a week between classes and my own workouts, and at one
point I was down to a 29 inch waist, my BMI was 29.6 - borderline obese -
according to the guidelines. I was muscular, toned, and could pass any of the
standard physical fitness tests (military, police, etc.)
Currently according to the BMI guidelines, I’m “obese” with a BMI of 30.72 and
I should weigh 35 pounds less than I do now. I wear a size 33 pants (waist).
At most, I want to lose about 10 pounds or one waist size.
------
xinyhn
This is a good review of current understanding of the effects for anyone
interested in more than some of the comments so far.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2936261/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2936261/)
Abstract
Bariatric surgery is now widely reported to ameliorate or resolve type 2
diabetes mellitus in adults. Some clinical investigators even suggest its use
as an early therapeutic intervention for type 2 diabetes in patients not
meeting standard criteria for bariatric surgery. However, little is known
about the exact mechanisms explaining the metabolic consequences, and much
active investigation is underway to identify hormonal changes leading to
diabetes resolution. This review includes a detailed description of various
bariatric surgical procedures, including the latest less-invasive techniques,
and a summary of current data providing insight into the short- and long-term
metabolic effects. We outline current hypotheses regarding the mechanisms by
which these surgical procedures affect diabetes and report on morbidity and
mortality. Finally, we discuss the available data on bariatric surgery in
adolescent patients, including special considerations in this potentially
vulnerable population.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019697811...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196978115002454)
Abstract
Bariatric surgery for obesity has proved to be an extremely effective method
of promoting long-term weight reduction with additional beneficial metabolic
effects, such as improved glucose tolerance and remission of type 2 diabetes.
A range of bariatric procedures are in common use, including gastric banding,
sleeve gastrectomy and the Roux-en-Y gastric bypass. Although the mechanisms
underlying the efficacy of bariatric surgery are unclear, gastrointestinal and
pancreatic peptides are thought to play an important role. The aim of this
review is to summarise the effects of different bariatric surgery procedures
upon gastrointestinal and pancreatic peptides, including ghrelin, gastrin,
cholecystokinin (CCK), glucose-dependent insulinotropic hormone (GIP),
glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1), peptide YY (PYY), oxyntomodulin, insulin,
glucagon and somatostatin.
------
_raoulcousins
I looked into getting it, and the doctor's office was surprised that my
insurance didn't cover it. They said that the usual version of my plan
normally covers it but my employer had a stipulation that specifically
excluded weight loss surgery. $15k out of pocket if I want to do it. I
probably should.
------
jstewartmobile
This piece has the stench of public-relations ghostwriting all over it.
Describing a gastric bypass as a "cure" for anything is fake news if I've ever
heard any.
I know many people who have had them, and in _every_ case they'd describe it
as having traded one problem for another.
------
flocial
I share the general sentiment of shock in the comments that such a sensational
click bait article somehow made it to the front page. A healthy diet with
regular exercise might always be the correct answer but this is exactly the
kind of problem that would benefit from hacking.
While fasting in various forms may be beneficial and less harmful than hacking
out a significant part of your digestive system we must acknowledge the
psychological barrier faced in doing so.
As someone who has successfully fasted repeatedly combined with regular
exercise solely for weight control, the effort is quite "character building"
and simply expecting diabetics and the obese to engage in what amounts to self
denial just because it is the correct approach is quite unrealistic.
------
techiferous
I was totally expecting the cure to be a gym membership. Exercise is still the
gold standard of care for managing type 2 diabetes.
------
buckthundaz
Imagine consuming less sugar and less carbohydrates, and food at more
infrequent intervals...
------
bitwize
Why even bother with the surgery? Real hackers fast intermittently, and eat
strict keto otherwise.
~~~
cosmojg
Lack of willpower perhaps?
~~~
shadykiller
Completely agree. My father is a T2 diabetic. He tried keto with great results
but could not sustain it. Recently he tried fasting and started getting
similar results. Stopped insulin altogether from his peak of 30 units a day.
------
aviv
Diabetes can already be cured, without the sick concept of a gastric bypass as
some sort of a solution. Type 2 diabetes can be completely reversed following
a 14 to 40 day water fast or a series of short 4-7 day dry fasts. This is
complete insanity that such a simple solution is still not mainstream in 2018.
~~~
kolpa
How do you survive for 40 days with 0 food, and 7 days with 0 water?
~~~
evgen
Do you know many dead people who suffer from type 2 diabetes? Didn’t think
so... :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How H-1B Visas Are Screwing Tech Workers - uladzislau
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/silicon-valley-h1b-visas-hurt-tech-workers
======
makmanalp
Friends, I'll approach this from a different perspective, if you'll please
take a moment to lend me your ears, and hear my plight.
=============
> But in reality, most of today's H-1B workers don't stick around to become
> the next Albert Einstein or Sergey Brin
I recently wrote a letter to a Congressperson about this, regarding the recent
House Judiciary Committee Hearing on Immigration Reform. The same point was
brought up there too. Do these people think it's _easy_ to start a company on
an H-1B? It's near impossible. I'd know, because I've looked into it with a
brilliant lawyer. Let's take a look at the factors.
* H-1B costs around 4-5k, and the result of the application is uncertain. Would you want an uncertain cofounder? Would investors?
* H-1B workers must be paid prevailing wage. For a programmer in Cambridge, MA, the cheapest level-1 codemonkey _must_ be paid around $55k/yr. How many of us started out paying ourselves that much money? Or any money for that matter?
* A document called the Neufeld Memo from 2008 states that the H-1B sponsor and worker need an employer-employee relationship. This means that the company, that you helped start, must have the ability to fire you whenever it wants. You must relinquish your rights to control your employment in that regard. How would you feel about this?
* For similar reasons, owning majority stake in your company is nearly impossible, and owning any stake is generally frowned upon and investigated further by authorities.
* Work visas are per-company and per-job. You want to do some consulting on the side to keep the purse full? Tough luck, unless you also are able to get an H-1B from there. (hint: it's tough.)
If you had all these limitations, how likely is it that you'd be the next
Sergey Brin? Is it any wonder that H-1Bs are not creating jobs for Americans?
The reason for all this is that the H-1B was created for BigCo.
==========================
> ComputerWorld revealed last week that the top 10 users of H-1B visas last
> year were all offshore outsourcing firms such as Tata and Infosys. Together
> these firms hired nearly half of all H-1B workers, and less than 3 percent
> of them applied to become permanent residents.
Again, the H-1B system surely favors BigCO. The reason for this is because it
was created for BigCO, and it was advanced by constant lobbying by BigCO.
There is no equivalently large lobby, however, for the bright immigrant
entrepreneurs that America wants. Brin himself is probably lobbying for the
H-1B, as Google is in the top 10 H-1B employers.
"Less than 3% of them applied to become permanent residents". Honestly! This
makes me angry. Do people think they didn't _want_ to become permanent
residents? Are we this out of touch? This is because they can't decide to
apply to become permanent residents themselves! They need sponsorship for PERM
(green card) applications too! But the companies don't want to take this
costly and time consuming (6+ years for Indians) route often, when they can
just replace them.
==========================
There are more glaring things in the article, but I want to keep my point
clear. Do I think H-1Bs are great? NO! God no. But calls to ban it are a bit
overzealous. Please, have some compassion.
People seem to forget that H-1Bs are the only way to legal immigration for
people who don't have ties to the US, or people like me whose American parents
haven't lived in the US for a long time. Ban it, and the likes of me are
screwed.
I hope that there comes a better alternative that doesn't serve corporate
interests as much, that supports foreign founders who create jobs for
Americans. Something that raises the bar for potential applicants and lowers
the bar for consultancy-farms. I'm hopeful about the STEM visa. I like the
startup visa. I think there are tons of flaws to be fixed in the system.
Please, consider what will happen to us, just as you consider what will happen
to you. I understand that America must think of its own first. But consider
how immigrants created entire industries, ___when they were allowed to do so_
__. Heck, most Americans are descendants of immigrants. If you call for the
ban of the H-1B, please also call, twice as vigorously, for the creation of
something better.
~~~
tlgreen
>> But calls to ban it are a bit overzealous.
No one has said anything about banning H1B in this thread. You're misdirecting
us from the real issue which is that H1B program is about to be EXPANDED. This
will accelerate the damage to the job market in places like NY/NJ/CA/TX where
most H1Bs are placed. The amount of H1Bs that were previously admitted in a
decade will now be admitted in slightly more than 2 years. What do you think
that will do to salaries (yours included)?
>> But consider how immigrants created entire industries, when they were
allowed to do so. Heck, most Americans are descendants of immigrants.
You are once again misdirecting. If you consider the statistics, a 3%
citizenship rate is indicative that the H1B program is not really a
immigration program at all -- it is actually a guest worker program.
What's wrong with that? Guest workers who have limited freedoms, are tied to
their jobs for legal status, and can be sent back to India on their employer's
whim are not really free market participants or citizens -- they are
indentured servants or modern day slaves to the corporations that hold their
visas. It's then unsurprising that this special class of workers lowers market
salaries, or that expanding the number of people in this special class will
lower salaries.
>> Do I think H-1Bs are great? NO! God no.
You admit that H1B is a awful visa, but you don't want to rock the boat and do
anything about it. You are not actively campaigning to improve conditions,
instead you are here misdirecting and essentially supporting the expansion of
the H1B program in its current form. I'm sorry, but that's a mistaken attitude
and I can't get behind that.
~~~
makmanalp
I think you read me wrong. I agree with everything you said, but you need to
take your thought process one step further.
You are indeed right about the banning - in this thread. This issue, however,
has been coming up recently (3-4 major articles in the last 45 days or so) and
there is a growing "let's get rid of it" sentiment, but without proposals for
an alternative. If you take a peek at my conclusion again, you'll see that
this is what I'm asking for. An alternative.
>If you consider the statistics, a 3% citizenship rate is indicative that the
H1B program is not really a immigration program at all -- it is actually a
guest worker program.
Read again please, I agree with this exact point in the second section of my
comment. I made the point that it's not the worker's choice, it's BigCo's
choice. The system is set up to serve temp-workers to BigCo. I've supported
this exact idea in the 5 bullet points I've made above that. What I disagree
with was the implication in the original article that guest workers didn't
_want_ to naturalize. "less than 3 percent of them applied to become permanent
residents" makes it sound that way. They can't apply themselves!
I don't need lecturing about how guest workers have limited freedoms. I know
firsthand! I'm not too keen on servitude myself! It's not that I don't think
rocking the boat is a good idea, but I'm wary and scared. Do you know how many
alternative visa program / immigration reform bills have been proposed so far?
And how many have been passed? And how many of those have been bills that
support the current long-term temporary worker style?
As my wise lawyer says, "I'll believe it when I see it".
I'm afraid that we're going to kick this system over, in favor of _no_ system.
And then no alternative is going to be agreed upon (in the Senate and House),
or the alternative is going to be heavily lobbied yet again, to create a
similar system, entrenching it even more.
Is this fear not justified?
~~~
tlgreen
Once again you are mixing in logical arguments with emotional ones, and using
emotion to override logical arguments and ultimately support an unjust status
quo.
You agree that changes need to happen. So why not lobby for the changes that
you want to see? Why lobby for the status quo or the expansion of the current
broken program?
From your comment, why not lobby for these:
1\. Employers should NOT have the right to send people back within 30 days if
they eliminate a position. Instead, the person should have the right to look
for another job as long as the visa period has not expired.
2\. Employers should not be involved in the green card application process --
people should apply for a green car on their own, after X years of stay.
Why not have a real change agenda instead of sniping at non-existing arguments
(they'll ban H1B!) or adding support to the idea that being exploited by
BigCos is the only way things can be?
------
DamnYuppie
Being in IT since 1997 I definitely agree with this. I have seen way to many
job postings for positions that want a great deal of experience and well below
market pay. Eventually these get filled by H1-B visa holders.
Overall I see H1-B visas as a means of companies to suppress wages of domestic
IT workers. I know entirely way too many good software engineers and
developers looking for jobs for there to be a "shortage".
That being said I am very aware that my comment like the rest of the comments
is anecdotal. I am hopeful more objective numbers can be found that will allow
us to have a more informed conversation on this.
~~~
mikeash
I have way too much trouble finding good developers to hire for there not to
be a shortage. I wonder whose anecdotes are correct.
~~~
DamnYuppie
At what price point? If you are looking for good developers at or near the
"market" you will probably not find them. Anyone who has been in the industry
for awhile and is very competent will know they are generally worth more.
~~~
netcan
Under that definition there is no such thing as a shortage.
~~~
DamnYuppie
That is the point I was trying to make. I don't believe their is a true
shortage of talented workers, but I do believe large companies state that
there is as a means to drive down wages. H1-B Visa just happen to be the handy
hammer they use to do it with.
~~~
netcan
"Shortage" in an economy is expressed as higher prices. In almost any cases
you will be able to find more workers if you are willing to pay an unlimited
amount. There is no way of determining the "correct" price. The reverse is
also true. More potential employees in the marketplace lowers salaries.
If you take "you could find employees at a higher salary" as a proof that the
shortage doesn't exist you'll virtually always have that proof. Under that
definition shortages don't exist which feels like some sort of semantic
trickery.
------
lisperforlife
I am an Indian here. I have heard horror tales from TCS employees on how they
are given "on-site" experience. Mostly it is a portrayed as a favor done by
the management to the employee. You have to earn the on-site opportunity which
involves a great deal of kissing people's rears. It is mostly not about the
talent you have. One of the guys who had gone on-site on one such occasion had
told me how the organization billed him as an Expert Oracle consultant while
he was told to study oracle while he was boarding the flight. It is true that
they get paid a pittance when compared to US nationals. A developer with 5
years of experience makes about $2.5k a month. They usually subsist on Taco
Bells, McD burgers and so on. On the other hand many indians prefer this, as
it still works out better than if they had stuck to the indian job. In fact,
in many family circles you are not considered a human if you are working in IT
and do not have any "on-site experience". Most these folks are completely
dependent on the organization that they work for and are willing to fight for
it tooth and nail to defend it even if the organization is holding them under
a sort of an indentured servitude. There are a few genuinely smart hackers but
those are far and few in between. Most of these organizations are as
dysfunctional as the companies that they consult for.
~~~
mgkimsal
_In fact, in many family circles you are not considered a human if you are
working in IT and do not have any "on-site experience"_
I'm probably too independently minded, but I'm not sure I could be bothered to
give a rat's ass about what my family thought of me with respect to my job or
how I live my life. If I'm working, keeping a roof over my family's head,
enjoying what I do and getting better in my profession... tough cheese if
someone in my family doesn't 'consider me human' - that says far more about
them than me.
~~~
piesauce
This is a cultural thing. In India, what is spoken around in family circles
means a lot.
~~~
mgkimsal
Perhaps aspects of any culture which focus on shaming people and making them
feel like less than human should be de-emphasized or ignored.
------
desigooner
Another piece of recycled fear-mongering garbage.
From all the people I know around here who're on an H1B, the salaries are
quite on par with US nationals. I do admit that I don't know anyone working
for the companies named in the article (TCS, Infosys).
The issue that needs more discussion is why not let US-educated non-immigrants
have an easier path to Permanent Residency vs. letting them leave the country
to start companies back in their homeland.
~~~
vignesh_vs_in
The salaries people receive with H1-B on those companies are $60k to
$70k/Year. And they are billed at $100k/year to the client.
I would say the pay is same as Americans working along with them.
The reason many companies are off-shoring to India is that there are more
people with mix of domain and technical knowledge in India.
~~~
pawelwentpawel
_Top 10 users of H-1B visas last year were all offshore outsourcing firms such
as Tata and Infosys. Together these firms hired nearly half of all H-1B
workers, and less than 3 percent of them applied to become permanent
residents._
I'm a little bit confused in here. Is it the same 65k visa cap for Europe and
India? Does that mean that Tata and Infosys have taken half of it and people
who they hired weren't even working in US?
I didn't squeeze into the last year's visa quota and decided to stay in UK
(hearing - "if you reapply we might get a visa for you in a year" is not very
encouraging). From what I heard, getting H1B is becoming quite of a race
against time as the places are getting filled out quickly. I think I know why
now.
~~~
vignesh_vs_in
It is a per year limit. Most H1-Bs return back to India within a year and a
new person will be sent to fill in the same position next year.
That's why most people never get PR. The main reason is not to short charge
the client, but to give chance to other workers in India, cause most companies
pay them only $5k to $14k/per year back in India(That's the market rate in
India). There is a rat race where people have to fight to fly to US or other
western countries so that they can earn 10X more.
~~~
edderly
> Most H1-Bs return back to India within a year and a new person will be sent
> to fill in the same position next year.
That sounds wrong. The period of the H1-B visa stay is three years.
------
jbooth
_Yet if tech workers are in such short supply, why are so many of them
unemployed or underpaid? According to the Economic Policy Institute (EPI),
tech employment rates still haven't rebounded to pre-recession levels. And
from 2001 to 2011, the mean hourly wage for computer programmers didn't even
increase enough to beat inflation._
I think anyone who is actually any good at programming could disagree with
that statement.
There are 2 problems with H-1Bs:
1) Body shops in northern NJ bringing mediocre talent here, lying on their
resumes to get them placed, and then paying them 1/10 of what they're billed
as indentured servants.
2) Not enough visas for qualified people, partially because of 1.
~~~
gms
What's ironic is that these body shops are mostly non-American companies
(usually Indian ones that hire Indians).
~~~
jbooth
Yeah. I work with several very talented indians, and hear on a regular basis
about their visa woes. People who've paid taxes in this country for 10 years,
raising kids here, the only reason they're not citizens is because the process
takes too damn long. They're on H-1Bs and deserve to be citizens, so it
touches a nerve when I hear H-1B described as some 'dey tuk ur jawbs' system.
If you're being outcompeted by the incompetent body shop employees, you need
to step up your game rather than try to restrict the labor market.
~~~
armored_mammal
There may be some body shops with incompetent people, but I think there are
plenty of competent H1-B holders.
The proper framing is that their visa can be held over their head to extract
14 hour days 6 or 7 days a week and other working conditions and salaries that
Americans would not accept or be able to compete with (for good reason).
~~~
gms
The US government actually sets generous price floors on what H1-B's can be
paid to prevent this sort of thing (for better or for worse). An H1-B
application specifying a salary that is lower than said floor would be
rejected.
------
luckymoney
I register today just to say this TL;DR: it sucks being here on visa. Even if
I want to be a US-citizen and I contribute like a US-citizen, they still make
sure I'm just a second-class in here.
I am a F-1 Visa Vietnamese student that recently got a pretty good offer in a
big corp. I am really tired of being treated like half-resident person. While
I do all of my duty (paying taxes), I never receive the benefits of being an
resident. First there was a out-of-state tuition for every public university
in the US. For over 5 years in school, I've seen many of my friends run out of
money because of this "premium" price we pay.
Now, some of us try to work to support our premium tuition, but we are not
permitted to work outside of school. As a result, most of us would have to
work illegally in some Asian restaurant, usually with under-minimal wage and
no tips. I understand they stop us from getting a job to protect American.
However, from what I observe, those minimal-wage jobs which could not be taken
by international students will be taken by illegal immigrant anyway. So it
puts the US government in a lose-lose situation: those jobs won't return to
American citizen, and they lose some of the taxes. Maybe they should look at
others country, such as UK (allowed to work up to 20h), or Australia(allowed
to work in controlled manner)... and rethink.
The only way you can work, is to get a job in your college with minimal wage
or to get an OPT. I've had a job on campus in which I design a website for
dorm using bottle.py and backbone.js for... $9.5/hour. Before tax. An OPT is a
program where you can work outside of your college for one year, but the job
has to fit your major. I got my internship with EMC by OPT.
Now, although we do not have the benefits of being residents, we still have to
do our duty while we are in here. I have to pay taxes like everyone else. I
just finish doing my tax for last year. With one internship and an on-campus
job, I fall in the second braket of tax, although I did pay a lot more for my
education. We also do not have credit cards as no-one trusts us. I just got my
frist creditcard after 6 years being here :).
Now, after 6 years of suffering, it finally pays off for me to have a offer
for a big corp and be an h1-b visa. I can asure you that they pay me very
competitively. However, it is still pretty damn hard to become a US-citizen
from here. The process is lengthy, and sometime depends on luck. Not to
mention if I want to bring my wife to the US, my wife will not be able to work
at any form, not even on college campus.
~~~
wil421
Be grateful many people don't have these opportunities. We all pay the same
for tuition if weren't not from that state. I've suffered working in a
restaurant for the past 6 years and low rate college pay jobs. At least we can
still afford tuition when a lot of people can't or don't even have the option
to go to school.
------
c0mpute
Indian here, and I have worked on a H1-B with one of the out-sourcers
(Infosys/Wipro likes). I think the article has some truth and a lot of crud.
It is important to understand the context first.
What you can say about technology right now in USA, there are two large
disjoint islands. There is the silicon valley kinds of "cool"/startup
technology and then there is run of the mill "IT" for Bank/Insurance/Big-Non-
IT technology. Outsourcers go after the latter kind and in fact can only go
after the latter kind. Their premise is to hire really below average
"Engineers" in India, and expect them to just learn the tricks of the trade to
replace/take over another run-of-the mill IT job.
The point is, if your day job is just about maintaining/coding something mind
numbing, with no real value add or just being a cog in the wheel in some Big-
Co that has nothing to do with technology, you can expect someone to do your
job much cheaper. Probably the quality will dip, but then the Big-Co hardly
cares about its software right?
Whereas, if you look at the stuff being done in the "valley like" companies,
you won't find those outsourced developers. You will still find smart Indians
on H1, but then the non-linearity of their talent is at play. Although, I have
seen valley companies outsource their QA (manual testing).
I think it is important that one keeps working hard on moving from the second
island to the first, no matter who it is (American or otherwise). There is
nothing new about this... we have seen this happen to manufacturing. It has
happened to web design - Go to elance and you will find at least 20:1 ratio of
some Indian firm to US firm. All of them compete at the low-end of the scale.
It is very hard to secure a comfortable life in that lower-end of the
technology pipeline living here in USA.
~~~
Samharnett
I'm a journalist doing a story about H1B visas for public radio. I think you
have a very interesting perspective and would like to speak with you about
your experience. You can reach me at [email protected]
------
ajiang
Just an interesting note to point out that the man who's wife spoke with Obama
did get a lot of calls / interest from companies across the country, but
because of a custody agreement needs to stay in North Texas, which I'd be
willing to bet contributes much more to his difficulties finding a job than
H-1B visas.
~~~
opinali
> because of a custody agreement needs to stay in North Texas
Wow, pretty bad case to blame immigrants.
As a father I can sympathize with the guy, it should be hard having to choose
between a decent job offer and the ability to see your children every day. But
mobility is one important factor in the job market, you don't always get to
choose where to live while advancing your career (unless maybe if you're a
rock star and telecommuting is viable), especially in STEM areas that have
most jobs in large metros or startup/high-tech hubs.
------
asanwal
We're a startup and have hired 2 (and soon to be 3) folks on H1B visas. These
were folks who got their Masters degrees here, who are brilliant and who'd
have otherwise left.
While I don't dispute that there are holes in the program and abuse that
happens, it has enabled us to find some folks for our team who have put us as
a company on a different trajectory.
Disclaimer: data point of one.
~~~
cema
Thank you, by the way. (Sincerely.) The more great people from around the
world stay here, the better we all will be.
------
arbuge
"My husband has an engineering degree with over ten years of experience," the
Fort Worth resident told the president during a web chat hosted by the social
network Google+. "Why does the government continue to issue and extend H-1B
visas when there are tons of Americans just like my husband with no job?"
There's engineers and then there's engineers. If he could code (or was
interested in coding) fluently in modern web environments, I suspect he'd have
no problem finding a job at all...
~~~
mycodebreaks
Her husband is semiconductor engineer. I am sure he wouldn't code in modern
web environments.
However, there is nothing wrong in the way Mr. Obama replied. Watch the video
to get how article kind of distorts that fact.
~~~
arbuge
One should learn and adpt to the world's conditions. I'm an ex-semiconductor
engineer who took up the web myself. Far easier to start a business with
little capital.
------
armored_mammal
I think the way H1-B visa holders are basically beholden chattel to a specific
enterprise is especially repugnant.
Anyone who reads through job listings for engineers (all types, as in real
engineers) and programmers will also conclude that many job descriptions and
salaries are designed so that a) there are practically zero people who will
match the 'minimum' requirements, despite the fact that most of the
deficiencies candidates are likely to have can be solved by 3 months or less
of training, and b) if there were any Americans with the actual qualifications
expressed, they would never work for the listed salary.
It's also worth noting, the hidden secret to getting cheap developers in the
US is to be based somewhere that doesn't have a huge tech hub.
If you base yourself in moderate size cities you'll find a hidden field of
competent applicants who will take salaries close to $50k a year just because
there are few jobs in mainstream America that aren't Java or .Net unless they
move to a tech hub (people often do not want to live in NYC or SF, at any
cost). And 50k in a region they like with a tech they don't hate is better
than moving. On average.
I should know. I'm a competent (but not end of the world amazing jock rock
star hipster) developer getting paid 50k a year somewhere in America that is
distinctly not New York or California. And my company pretty much has me
locked in because there are pretty much no other businesses or shops in town
that use Javascript or Python or other similar common open source languages
instead of .Net or Java (or PHP). (Obviously not an issue of technical
ability, but language taste.)
~~~
untog
_I think the way H1-B visa holders are basically beholden chattel to a
specific enterprise is especially repugnant._
As an H1B holder on his third job in the US, I can tell you that we aren't
actually beholden to any employer.
~~~
armored_mammal
Probably you paid off a good agency in India to fix you up with jobs, then.
You're right that it's a little more complicated. A family friend is here from
India on some kind of visa where she is able to switch employers, but she has
to leave if a new one won't sponsor her or something. But she pays (or paid)
thousands of dollars to some agency in India to fix her up with a job/jobs.
What really gets me in her case is that she has a child who has lived here for
over a decade and can't get in-state tuition without special treatment despite
being legal.
~~~
untog
Well, I'm not from India, so no, I didn't. I changed jobs by going out,
looking for a job, applying for it, and interviewing.
The principle is absolutely simple- an H1B visa is freely transferrable to a
new employer. There is absolutely nothing (legal) that your old employer can
do in retribution once the transfer is complete, and it is possible to go
through the transfer process without notifying your current employer.
~~~
ashayh
The problem is almost always for people from China, India, Mexico and
Philippines. The Green Card process takes less than a year for all other
countries except these. The Green Card paperwork takes a lot of time and
effort for people from these countries. While doing the paperwork, there are
extended periods where it does not make sense to look for new jobs. That
pushes the expected date further in the future. For example, as of today,
people who applied for the GC in 2004 and have a MS or 5 years of experience,
are just eligible for it now:
<http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5885.html>
------
jdminhbg
What does it say about programmers that HN is half swamped with complaints
about recruiters and half with complaints about putative oversupply of labor?
------
casidiablo
I'm right now under an H-1B visa...
I know it is not fair for americans to be unemployed because we foreigns are
taking your positions; but you guys don't know what it feels to live in a
third world country.
You can read all you want about poverty and violence, you can get shocked by
the news and movies that touches that kind of topics. But you will hardly ever
experience what it feels to live in real poverty. You don't know how it feels
when your brothers or children are dying of starvation.
So I kept studying for years, stuck in a country were you can get killed
anytime... became a freelance and later I was brought to the US under a H-1B
visa. And guess what... it saved my life and my family's.
I've realized America is the kind of country that loves to exploit and get as
much as possible from other countries (third world ones generally), and when
it comes to give back some of that... well, you find this kind of reactions.
------
stewie2
My team has 4 job openings. The only two candidates who could pass our phone
screen are not U.S. citizens. One is from Russia, who didn't get the visa for
on-site interview.
America seems to be very harsh to legal immigrants, but pretty nice to illegal
immigrants.
I think it's good for a country to import some competition. After all, h1b has
a 60000 cap each year, that's not too many people.
~~~
anxrn
Agreed. In the process of sponsoring green cards for prospective candidates,
we go through the process of trying to find US citizens that could fill the
role. This is a requirement of the labor certification process. We rarely, if
ever, find _any_ US citizen that applies for these positions. Most applicants
are immigrants, which makes us reject them (since the exercise is to really
see if we can find citizens). These are not low-paying grunt jobs. These are
highly-specialized, very well paid positions.
~~~
armored_mammal
Maybe you should focus on finding smart people (if you actually pay decently
and are located somewhere somebody in their right mind would want to live) and
then consider training them in your 'high-specialized' whatever you need.
------
hudibras
Oh boy, here we go...
Norm Matloff's H1B web page should be required reading for anyone who wants to
discuss this: <http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html>
He definitely falls on one side of the issue, but he's the leading academic
researcher on the subject.
------
jessaustin
If the people who run unions were smart, they would have gotten rid of H-1B a
long time ago. The tech industry is the only part of the USA economy that even
has a potential for the sort of labor shortage required for healthy private-
sector unions.
------
eplanit
This is as true today as it has been for the past 10-15 years. "highly
specialized knowledge" == "cheap talent". And as has always been true, you get
what you pay for.
------
yankoff
As for why many of them don't become permanent residents: it is quite hard to
jump from H1B to permanent residency. I'm facing this problem myself at the
moment and there's no easy solution. Living in such uncertainty about your
future is hard and many people are just like 'screw this' and leave after some
period of time. It's not like they want to leave and take their work with
them.
~~~
yankoff
The point is that laws are such that they encourage you to leave the country
after you've been educated and gotten good work experience. Which is crazy.
You'd imagine there should be an easier way to become a permanent resident
after you worked in a country for a while.
------
Samharnett
I am journalist for public radio and I'm doing a story on H1Bs. I am
interested in getting the perspective of employees working on H1B visas.
Anyone who is interested in sharing their experiences can reach me at
[email protected].
------
infoseckid
Be competitive, rather than eliminate competition. If an H1B can do the same
job for a cheaper price, he should be hired. What's so wrong about it?
------
rbanffy
My $0.02: there are a lot of reasons to want to move to the US that are
completely unrelated to job opportunities.
------
rogerchucker
I wonder if H-1Bs were attracting more Europeans than Indians, would Americans
hate it the same way?
~~~
ikonst
I doubt skin tone plays much of a role. Relative to other places around the
world, Americans are rather colorblind.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fossil – Simple, high-reliability, distributed software configuration management - typedweb
http://fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/tip/www/index.wiki
======
jccooper
I use fossil; like it a lot.
If you use/would like to use fossil, you might also want to take a look at
[http://chiselapp.com](http://chiselapp.com)
It's a bit github-ish; online repository hosting, private or public, and free.
(I'd happily pay, but they don't provide even a donation page. So: thanks!)
~~~
jrapdx3
Thanks for the link. I use Fossil for a few projects. While it's not too
complicated to set up Fossil repositories on the web, the Chiselapp "hub"
would make it even easier and probably a lot more reliable.
One of the things to like about Fossil is its concept of record immutability,
that is, data is retained intact in the database even when superseded by a
newer version. Fossil asserts a highly ethical position, that revising
historical facts is not an acceptable practice.
Using Fossil over the last couple of years, its performance and stability have
been rock solid, and I haven't experienced any data loss or other problems
with it.
~~~
gioele
> One of the things to like about Fossil is its concept of record
> immutability, that is, data is retained intact in the database even when
> superseded by a newer version. Fossil asserts a highly ethical position,
> that revising historical facts is not an acceptable practice.
There is big drawback in making it very hard to edit "history": you are bound
to carry in your project all sorts of things that you do not want to. And this
becomes an even worse problem when you combine source code, tickets and a wiki
as Fossil does.
Somebody posts spam as tickets? Now you are bound to have traces of that spam
forever in your published repository.
I switched away from bzr to git, just like many others, also because bzr made
it impossible to fix small stupid mistakes. OK, I pressed Enter while reaching
out for the shift key and made a commit with the wrong commit message. Why do
I have to keep that? What does the project gains from this?
I think the problem here is with the word "history". We attach a lot of
meaning to that word and nobody wants to be a "history rewriter" or a
"revisionist". I prefer more neutral terms like "patch queue" or "version
chains". "I polished the chain" sounds much better than "I rewrote history".
~~~
jrapdx3
In Fossil it's _not_ impossible to remove offensive content, though deletion
is discouraged. Fossil's policies and content removal procedures are discussed
here: [http://fossil-
scm.org/index.html/doc/tip/www/shunning.wiki](http://fossil-
scm.org/index.html/doc/tip/www/shunning.wiki)
It's also possible to access everything in the repository using the command:
fossil sqlite3
which opens a command line accepting sql queries. If one knows how to modify
the database, then tickets, etc. can be edited. Probably, using the "official"
methods to remove content is a lot safer.
~~~
sgbeal
FWIW: simply removing records from your repo db (in particular the blob table)
_will_ corrupt it. Fossil stores deltas and other metadata which span blobs,
and it's not trivial (and in many cases not possible) to separate them post
facto. Hypothetically it would be possible to "pop" the top-most change from a
repo, then repeat that, going all the way back to the start of the repo, but
it's not possible to remove something from in the middle without the
equivalent of a 4-way heart bypass surgery.
------
zachrose
What do we mean by SCM?
It seems to be that "software configuration management" should be about
configuring a program, whereas "source code management" should be about
managing source code.
Which is Fossil?
~~~
skrebbel
It's old school enterprise speak. When software-being-built consisted of a
number of "Configuration Items" (CIs), such as .doc files, .xls files and of
course heaps of .c files. There would be a dedicated "Configuration Manager"
who's job it was to make sure that people wouldn't Visual SourceSafe their
files over other people's files. He'd also write the batch files for the build
server, assuming they had a build server.
They really do mean source control. Just that it doesn't _have_ to be source
code. It can be any "configuration item". Just like with git or svn or
mercurial or zipping-directories-and-uploading-them-to-a-network-share.
Personally, I like "version control" for that reason. It just removes the
subject of the operation from the name entirely.
------
feld
Sqlite uses this for their SCM. It makes sense as this is a good test of
sqlite itself.
~~~
grayclhn
It makes even more sense since it's the same developer.
~~~
feld
Indeed, I had forgotten about that :-)
------
beagle3
A bit of history:
DR Hipp, who created SQLite, created a wonderful bug tracking system and wiki
for it, called CVSTrac, with the moto "low ceremony defect tracking" that was
tied to CVS. It was wonderful - I had used it in my CVS days. It was written
in C, based on SQLite, was fast and just worked.
Trac was inspired by CVSTrac, but is written in Python, is not tied to CVS, is
slower but much more capable and much more flexible (although still "low
ceremony" compared to e.g. Bugzilla).
Fossil is DR Hipp's version control system, which integrates content version
tracking, wiki and issue tracking (low ceremony CVSTrac-alike adapted for
fossil)
I haven't had a chance to use it - last time I looked at it, it was missing
crypto parts that are essential in some of the projects I work on. But if
Fossil gets crypto done right, or if I stop needing it done right, I will
definitely give fossil a try.
------
stephenr
I'm all-for supporting alternative solutions, particularly in the VCS space.
SVN is not great for some tasks, but for some its still superior. Git is very
popular but still not ideal for some workflows/project types. Mercurial is
oftentimes a more approachable alternative to Git, but has less mindshare.
Personally I think variety should be embraced. Let each project use the VCS
that works for it's specific needs/developers.
With this mindset, while I would have no issue supporting and making use of
something like Fossil (assuming it's reliable), I would absolutely discourage
the use of it's wiki and ticket systems, in favour of independent solutions
that are not tied to the repo and repo software itself.
~~~
chriswarbo
> I would absolutely discourage the use of it's wiki and ticket systems, in
> favour of independent solutions that are not tied to the repo and repo
> software itself.
I'm interested what you think about BugsEverywhere (
[http://bugseverywhere.org](http://bugseverywhere.org) ), which keeps bug info
in a hidden directory in the repo and integrates well with git. I've not used
it before, but am considering it for a research project I've inherited which
has no infrastructure (just source code in a zip file). I'd like to avoid
proprietary hosting (eg. github) or hosting my own web server (eg. gitlab), so
I'm thinking that BE would be a good fit, with hosting on gitorious.org
~~~
stephenr
It looks interesting, and the multi-vcs support is quite good, and I guess in
theory in a multi-repo project, you could just have a repo called "bugs" or
"issues" if you wanted to keep that stuff separate.
The demo of the Web UI gave a 502 so I couldn't access it and I don't have
time to try it out locally right now..
------
chipsy
I like using Fossil for my personal projects. I don't always use every
feature, but it's all very small and self-contained and I can just copy the
executable into the project root without having to worry about the system
environment.
------
reitanqild
Since so many smart people interested in DVCS are looking anyway: anyone knows
whats happening to veracity scm? QA has been offline for months.
It was really promising but now seems more or less abandoned.
~~~
isxek
I can't find it anymore, but Eric Sink (SourceGear) wrote sometime previously
on his blog that they've decided to focus more on the mobile market with a
product called Zumero ([http://zumero.com/](http://zumero.com/)). IIRC Zumero
came from all their work on Veracity.
FWIW, I had also hoped Veracity would be developed further.
------
pm
I used Fossil for a while, and I liked it a lot. But after using it with my
team, and having to host it internally (something I didn't have the time to do
properly being a startup), and programmers complaining about the conflict
resolution process, we moved our projects over to git/GitHub. Honestly, I
haven't looked back, even though I much preferred Fossil's simplicity.
~~~
networked
Can you elaborate on the problems you had with conflict resolution? I used
Fossil for a couple of personal projects and made a mental note to try it out
instead of Git next time I had to host a code repository on a local server.
------
avodonosov
I had this idea for years - to integrate wiki and tickets with source control.
Probably I will like Fossil.
~~~
chriswarbo
You might also like Trac (
[http://trac.edgewall.org/](http://trac.edgewall.org/) ), which I've seen far
more projects using than Fossil.
~~~
MrUnderhill
Trac is very different from Fossil though: Fossil is version control software
with "embedded" wiki and issue tracker, while Trac is a wiki and issue tracker
which can, optionally, interface with one or more external vcs systems. Fossil
stores the wiki and issue data in the repository itself (SQLite), while Trac
stores it in an external database (PostgreSQL, MySQL etc.. SQLite would
probably work too!).
------
Perceptes
Zed Shaw uses Fossil in his Peepcode Play by Play episode. If you have a
subscription to Peepcode (now Pluralsight[1]) you can listen to him talk about
it and why he likes it.
[1] [http://www.pluralsight.com/](http://www.pluralsight.com/)
~~~
crazydoggers
And also why he stopped using it when it hosed his repo:
[http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
scm.or...](http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
scm.org/msg04671.html)
~~~
Leszek
I can understand the frustration of losing a couple of days of work, but wow,
that thread does not show Zed Shaw in a good light. This approach of "there
was a bug so now I'm throwing all my toys out of the pram" isn't particularly
constructive or mature.
~~~
xorcist
Also the "if it wasn't for me you'd still be four guys on a toy project"
quote.
Doesn't seem to be connected to reality. I've heard of Fossil and sqlite, but
never of Shaw, who apparently wasn't even a commiter.
~~~
dalke
There's more to a project than being a commiter. Shaw promoted Fossil, and
people (a lot of people have heard of Shaw) looked into Fossil and started
using it because of him. In that same thread you'll see someone else on the
list spoke up as being one of those people.
That quote you gave is a reaction to the dismissive attitude that non-
commiters are somehow second-class citizens; which you've just expressed. It's
a bad way of thinking about people.
------
hendry
Looks crazy compared to checking /etc into git.
~~~
untothebreach
Fossil is a general-purpose SCM tool, just like git, just with more features
(integrated bug tracker, etc), so in theory you _could_ check /etc/ in to
fossil as well.
~~~
sgbeal
Fossil is not the right job for that - there's a dozen entries in the ML
archives explaining why. Short version: it doesn't do file permissions and
system users, and many files in /etc require specific perms and owners.
~~~
untothebreach
Thanks for the correction, my knowledge of fossil is very shallow
------
mrmondo
The first thing I notice is how ugly the website is - if this reflects at all
upon how ugly the scm is (and it may well not), the it's not going to gain
traction.
~~~
hollerith
Ugliness is subjective: I really liked it, or more precisely, nothing about it
annoyed me, and many of the design decisions on the web these years annoy me.
You got me curious what exactly about it struck you as ugly. (You could reply
to my email, which is in my profile, if you are worried about getting
downvoted.)
~~~
sgbeal
i suspect he's talking about the general aesthetics of the UI. None of the
developers (and i'm allowed to say this, being one of them ;) has demonstrated
a particular gift for making apps look really pretty.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Interactive command line HTTP inspector written in Go - tartpac
https://github.com/asciimoo/wuzz
======
gschier
That's awesome! The animated GIF on the README does a great job showcasing it.
I've been working on a more complex GUI API testing tool
([https://insomnia.rest](https://insomnia.rest)) but, to be honest, nothing
beats a simple command line tool like this for "quick tests".
------
chrisper
Does anyone know how they did the user interface? I mean I could read the
source code, but I am asking for a TL;DR if someone has that.
EDIT: Actually it seems to be a library:
[https://github.com/jroimartin/gocui](https://github.com/jroimartin/gocui) but
the question still stands!
~~~
robert_tweed
If you mean the general principle of this kind of pseudo-GUI in text mode,
look into codepage 437 [1]. It's possible to do more advanced stuff with
custom glyphs [3], but it doesn't look like this does anything like that - it
generally requires direct hardware access to modify the font.
This was a pretty common technique in 90s DOS programs, but it can be tricky
to get working cross platform over a serial terminal. The library you found
seems to rely on termbox [2] for that.
[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437)
[2] [https://github.com/nsf/termbox-go](https://github.com/nsf/termbox-go)
(edit)
[3] I thought Norton Commander did this, but I was mistaken - it just uses
codepage 437. It was Norton Utilities [4].
[4] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA-
compatible_text_mode](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA-
compatible_text_mode)
~~~
nitrogen
For UNIX-style terminals, there are also VT-nnn (can't remember the nnn) line
drawing commands, and Unicode line drawing characters.
My favorite DOS app that modified the VGA font was Impulse Tracker. It could
actually draw oscilloscopes in text mode, and its source code is available.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_Tracker](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_Tracker)
------
gigatexal
This is really cool. I'd upvote more if I could.
And it would have come in really handy for studying for the google cloud
support role I didn't get. Fault all my own.
------
eliangcs
I made another tool similar to this, but instead of being based on curl, it's
based on httpie: [http://http-prompt.com](http://http-prompt.com)
------
catern
This is similar to restclient.el for Emacs.
[https://github.com/pashky/restclient.el](https://github.com/pashky/restclient.el)
wuzz seems to be focused on one request at a time, though.
------
gizmo385
I could see this being incredibly useful, especially on remote servers where I
can't use something like Postman.
------
xiaoma
What is it with adding _" written in Go"_ to titles like this? Was the title
editorialized to get upvotes from the Go fans? Is "written in X" added to
project titles in general and somehow I just haven't noticed it?
~~~
jasode
_> Is "written in X" added to project titles in general and somehow I just
haven't noticed it?_
The _" written in X"_ is a very popular[1] type of post for the HN audience
because it usually points to source code like github/sourceforge. Your
annoyance about it is puzzling and out of place. It's as if a commenter
complains on a photography forum about a post titled _" Paris Eiffel Tower
taken with Canon 35mm lens"_; the "Canon 35mm lens" is part of what makes the
post _interesting_ to potential readers of that particular community.
[1] 50+ pages of results:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=written%20in&sort=byPopularity...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=written%20in&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)
------
brian_herman
Zeds attack proxy is very similar to this.
[https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Zed_Attack_Proxy_Proje...](https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Zed_Attack_Proxy_Project)
------
soheil
In the same spirit here is an interactive ssh tool for connecting to EC2:
[https://github.com/soheil/ssh2](https://github.com/soheil/ssh2)
------
tejasmanohar
Nicely done! I've become a big fan of interactive command-line programs. I
hate modifying cURL commands inline when I really want something REPL-like :)
------
OJFord
I thought I recognised the name - repo owner is also behind the 'searx' meta
search engine.
~~~
asciimoo
Actually, I wrote this tool to make searx's engine development easier. It is
glad to see, that so many people find it useful. =)
~~~
OJFord
Thank you for both! :)
------
jvehent
These HTTP clients are all very cool, and probably fun pet projects, but they
shouldn't stop devs from learning as much cUrl as they can. It's the Swiss
army knife of web services.
~~~
OJFord
If this had an 'export as curl command' command, that'd be awesome.
~~~
supergreg
That's one of my favorite features of the Firefox developer console.
------
tyingq
This looks very well done. Strong tty UI is hard to find these days.
------
kevdougful
This is cool. I will definitely try this out. I have one question though: what
does this give me that Postman and/or cURL does not?
~~~
andrewstuart2
State and easier navigation/alteration. The most painful part of curl commands
(for exploring) is editing the command when you want to change a parameter,
header, etc.
I like this interface personally because it separates the path to its own
area, then headers and query parameters are separate areas with each instance
on its own line.
It makes it quite easy to explore a rest interface and tweak your queries ad
hoc.
------
malikNF
In case anyone is wondering, press TAB to move forward and "SHIFT + TAB" to
move backwards.
------
andmarios
Looks great! Thanks for sharing it!
Now, if only it would also support websockets. :p
------
nodesocket
Looks nice and useful. Time saver over repetitive curl commands.
~~~
bitexploder
You might like -- [https://mitmproxy.org](https://mitmproxy.org) or Burp
proxy. These are the daily drivers of most infosec pros I know.
------
bitmapbrother
This is impressive. Showing a video of your app running really showcases it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Forthcoming OpenSSL release announced - Rygu
https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2016-January/000058.html
======
djcapelis
Reading the tea leaves on this one early we can probably assume there's a good
chance the high vulnerability does not affect libressl, which forked before
the 1.0.2 codebase. We'll find out about the low.
------
zdw
Did they communicate these issues via a backchannel to LibreSSL and BoringSSL
yet?
------
epmatsw
Will this be the first High issue since 0.9.8 and 1.0.0 stopped getting fixes?
It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
------
esseti
what's the procedure to update in debian? the offical repo will be updated
immediatly or what?
~~~
currysausage
From my limited understanding, the update would be pushed through the
security.debian.org repository ASAP, which should be configured by default.
I wonder what the 0.9.8 EOL means for squeeze-lts. Does the Debian LTS team
just backport all applicable 1.0.1 patches? Isn't this a little risky? They
might not have an intimate understanding of the opaque codebase.
What about Wheezy and Jessie after support for 1.0.1 ends on 31 December?
~~~
hsivonen
This is why long-term support is less cool than it might first appear.
~~~
markild
You get problems like this, but with the amount of overlap in time the
different versions provide, with regards to security updates, I'd say its far
from unreasonable that one should be able to move over to the next version
before stuff like this becomes a problem.
------
sandstrom
What is the range of severities? Is 'high' the highest?
~~~
minitech
“Critical” is the highest. A link to the list of severities is smack in the
middle of the message.
> Please see the following page for further details of severity levels:
> [https://www.openssl.org/policies/secpolicy.html](https://www.openssl.org/policies/secpolicy.html)
~~~
sandstrom
Thanks! I should get my sight checked!
------
opensslbbq
So rhe Openssl devs are the new carpenters? They should specify an exact time
instead, so that I can upgrade at a known time without having block the entire
afternoon. They could just as well tell us it would be available at 5pm.
~~~
jlgaddis
Assume it will be available at 1700 UTC then.
There was a time in the not so distant past when we didn't even get a "heads
up" like this so, personally, I am appreciative of the advance notice.
~~~
opensslbbq
That means that my 10k company users will have systems vulnerable for between
0 and 4 hour longer than necessary. That is less than optimal. Really, why do
thy even give a 4 hour window for when it will be released?
------
anonbanker
I wonder which exploit mitigation countermeasure was "bugfixed" in the new
release?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Do you knowingly avoid affiliate links? - ljoshua
I recently noticed a behavior that I am actively trying to change: I used to avoid clicking on affiliate links, even if I wanted to get to the provider in the end (I'd strip it out or type it in myself). I don't know why I did this, but I've talked with others who've done the same. Realizing that this does no harm to me but benefits others, I always click through affiliate links now.<p>Have you done the same? Any reason for why we do this? Are affiliate links a sleazy way to get in on something or a legitimate way to earn a buck for sending people somewhere useful? (Okay, not so much that last question, but the previous two.)
======
jayhuang
Absolutely. If you point out that it's an affiliate link, I'm perfectly fine
with letting you get the upside.
Otherwise I look at the anchor URL and get rid of the ref code. It's not a big
deal but it's annoying seeing people use blog posts or forum comments to post
stuff they normally wouldn't if they weren't incentivized.
------
krrishd
I click them knowingly. Personally, if they have provided a resource that is
of value to me, and I am not losing anything in the process, then fine, let
them have their incentive. I win a good resource, they get a few dollars, no
one is losing here.
------
TheLoneWolfling
If the person posting the link mentions that it is an affiliate link, I follow
it.
Otherwise, I'll strip it out.
Same with ad.fly etc. etc. If they provide an alternative, I'll generally
follow the link. Otherwise I won't.
------
ScottWhigham
It depends. I like to support blogs/etc that are free to use and, if they
suggest something I like/want, I will click it. If it's just some random
person in a forum/facebook/search result, yes I'd avoid it.
~~~
t_s
This is my usual behavior as well - if it looks like an advertisement or low-
quality post to show something off, I wont. If it's someone I follow and they
occasionally share something that is genuinely helpful I will click through.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A subfield-logarithm attack against ideal lattices - pedro84
http://blog.cr.yp.to/20140213-ideal.html
======
pbsd
This sort of thing is a recurring theme in cryptography:
1\. Someone proposes a scheme based on Hard Problem X. X looks strong, but the
resulting scheme either is too slow or has gigantic keys.
2\. Someone else comes along and proposes a related scheme based on Hard
Problem Y which, having more structure, allows for either smaller keys or
faster computation.
3\. Later turns out this extra structure also helps the attacker.
An example of this phenomena is the McEliece code-based cryptosystem. Many
variants based on alternative codes, attempting to reduce the public key size,
have been proposed over the years, and very few have survived. Another example
is elliptic curves: early on speed was an issue for their practicality, so
many weak curves were also proposed that tried to speed things up (one
particular example was Koblitz's supersingular curve that rendered point
doubling into a linear operation).
Ideal lattices have exacerbated this phenomena by its applications. Lattices
are a key tool in fully homomorphic encryption and friends (multilinear maps,
now also obfuscation), and in the frenzy to get these applications into
practicality ideal lattices (as opposed to unstructured ones) seem to be the
fastest shortcut into better speed and size. It remains to be seen whether
they'll survive.
~~~
yoha
Yes, that's exactly how cryptography research works: first, find and publish a
plausibly secure and practical scheme, then have other researcher try and
break it. If it does not break, it is considered secure.
~~~
andrewcooke
that's not really what he's saying. he's saying that adding structure for
speed also tends to add structure for breaking.
practical, modern crypto (in my limited understanding) seems to be
increasingly about choosing the right "place" to do your maths - somewhere
that's got just enough structure to do the encryption, without enough for the
_known_ attacks to be implemented.
but that has two issues. one, people push the boundary for speed. two, because
you're close to the edge you are arguably more vulnerable to new (incremental)
advances.
it makes you wonder whether all this new-fangled crypto based on clever maths
is such a good idea. maybe the old school block ciphers that simply throw
enough non-commuting, non-linear operations at the problem to make it "too
hard" are smarter than they look. but of course, they tend to be symmetric
only (and i am not sure the distinction above is real; you can try to
formalise why old block cipher systems are hard, and if you do so you come up
with things like aes, and then again you open the door to worrying about
algebraic attacks...)
~~~
yoha
> that's not really what he's saying. he's saying that adding structure for
> speed also tends to add structure for breaking.
I may not have been clear in my reasoning. Modern crypto research does rely on
stress testing newly crafted cryptosystems against peer researshers, who will
try to find a flaw in the system, think of a way of applying an existing
attack, or make a new adapted one. It is to say that published hash function
or block cipher schemes are not necessarily secure; the process of peer-
reviewing before publication only (partially) ensures the good-redaction of
the article and checks for blatant scientific errors. The consequence is then
that every single change to a cryptosystem, like using optimized structures
for speed, memory, sizes of keys, …, changing the key generation algorithm,
using parallelism or even creating an additional functionality using private
data (e.g. the secret key) may result in a partial or total compromise in
security.
So, in clear: yes, using time-optimized structures for crypto mays lead to new
attacks, but this is just a particular case and it does not in any tell that
faster necessarily means weaker, just that crypto is hard, since anything can
go wrong (consider timing attacks for instance).
> it makes you wonder whether all this new-fangled crypto based on clever
> maths is such a good idea. maybe the old school block ciphers that simply
> throw enough non-commuting, non-linear operations at the problem to make it
> "too hard" are smarter than they look. but of course, they tend to be
> symmetric only (and i am not sure the distinction above is real; you can try
> to formalise why old block cipher systems are hard, and if you do so you
> come up with things like aes, and then again you open the door to worrying
> about algebraic attacks...)
This is an usual rant against “post-quantum” crypto. Old schemes were not all
bad, but they were actually impractical when studying their security. Consider
DES, that basically just mangles bits with other bits depending on previous
bits. There is virtually no connection between studying the difficulty of
cracking DES and the rest of research. You will have to look for individual
bit propagation and other dirty stuff (and of course check for obvious attacks
using linear cryptanalysis). Well, the point is that, this way, you only some
public research of the matter. Maybe a few hundreds will seriously try and
find a way to decrypt DES. And they won't dedicate their career to this. This
means that the probability that an effective attack being privately (say, by
the NSA) discovered is not so low.
On the other hand, when you know most attacks against your cryptosystem would
imply the solving of a NP-problem, you can rely on a ton of research material
(mathematics and computer science). The point is that solving _any_ NP-problem
would be a revolution in lots of mathematics fields (especially CS-related).
In other words, you have thousands over thousands of researchers devoting a
lot of their time to try and break your cipher. And the probability that a
lone organization finds a solution first is very low.
Of course, as noted by the original author, you could still have other
attacks, that would not compromise the NP-hardness:
> The same theoreticians also say that lattice-based cryptography has "strong
> provable security guarantees". If this istaken literally then it is false
> advertising. The correct advertising is that a broad class of attacks
> against various attice-based cryptosystems can be converted, with limited
> loss of speed and success probability, into attacks against ertain standard
> lattice problems.
This is exactly what happens when adding "structure" to your keys. Relying on
the NP-problem basically means that what your adversary sees is
indistinguishable from random (when solving a NP-problem, your solution must
work for _all_ instances). So the "mangling" from old crypto is brought back
here. However, this way better, as the part that is to be studied is smaller
and more flexible since we are now considering controlled data and we can make
sure that a mangling brings a good distribution.
The attack which was presented here basically does that. It found a flaw in
the way one lattice-based crypto scheme relied on a NP-problem.
Note: by solving an NP-problem, I mean find a polynomial-time solution to a
question known as "NP-hard"
tl;dr: "this new-fangled crypto" is not about using "clever maths" but having
a more important pool of knowledge to rely on
------
yoha
Bernstein's paper are very interesting and contain strong material. He uses an
excellent theoretical background but keeps practical considerations in sight.
The cryptographic constructions he published are very efficient (e.g. RFSB [1]
is way faster than all other code-based hash functions). I should also add
that this blog entry is a good illustration of how clear his explanations can
be.
[1] see [rfsb] in
[http://cr.yp.to/codes.html#rfsb](http://cr.yp.to/codes.html#rfsb)
------
diziet
For more background on ideal lattice based encryption see
[https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~odonnell/hits09/gentry-
homomorphic-e...](https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~odonnell/hits09/gentry-homomorphic-
encryption.pdf) (pdf).
~~~
darkmighty
Just a note: this paper includes a small introduction to ideal lattice based
encryption, but it's topic (homomorphic encryption) is not necessarily tied to
lattice based crypto; the author has since provided different and more
efficient constructions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Kanban for Multidisciplinary Projects? - robomartin
I’ve always worked with some kind of a Kanban-Scrum-Agile-ish system for as long as I can remember. Most of these evolved out of necessity and without official affiliation to any of the above.<p>I’d be curious to know what HN’ers have found useful for deep/wide multidisciplinary projects.<p>These are projects where you have hardware, software (embedded, workstation, web), mechanical, electrical, FPGA’s, manufacturing, CNC, 3D printing, injection molding, sourcing, sub-contractors, etc.<p>In other words, we are not talking about an iOS or web-app project but rather a complex multidisciplinary project. Designing and building a car, plane, rocket, desktop computer, industrial machine, etc.
======
mimixco
Try codecks.io which I found because one of the devs posted here. It's like
Trello on steroids (imports Trello boards, too). We switched our complex
product development to Codecks almost immediately and are lovin' it.
~~~
robomartin
Interesting. Their focus seems to be gaming dev. Does it really play well with
the kinds of multi-disciplinary projects I mentioned?
~~~
mimixco
Yes. It's content-agnostic and has nothing to do with games.
~~~
robomartin
They should rethink their branding. I wonder how many people they lose due to
how they portray themselves?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The 212-story skyscraper in Melbourne, Australia - noyesno
https://twitter.com/liamosaur/status/1296305262144364544
======
chrismorgan
Is it morbid of me to wonder what happens if you fly a plane into such a
building in Flight Simulator? It just… sticks out so much that crashing into
it seems the obvious thing to try.
(Judging by
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrGEdO88kE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrGEdO88kE)
where someone eventually succeeds in landing on this building, it looks like
if you fail the screen just goes black at the point of impact, so no
interesting physics simulation.)
~~~
bitwize
Crashing into stuff is great fun and probably the first impulse of anyone
booting up a flight simulation program (especially kids) -- so much so that
flight simulation software was the target of a moral panic in 2001 after the
September 11 attacks were conducted by crashing real jets into buildings. Some
people began to think of flight sims as "terrorist training tools" and call
for them to be banned. That's probably why the screen simply went blank.
Previous versions would display a "cracked windshield" over the cockpit view
and the word "CRASH". Flight Simulator 5.0 would switch to an external view
and show your aircraft shattering into pieces. MFS2020 can simulate an
aircraft that was partially damaged after colliding with an obstacle, but a
catastrophic crash will just fade to black and pop up a message. Lame.
~~~
Wolfenstein98k
That's because a few of the terrorists actually used flight sim games to
"train" prior to the hijackings.
It wasn't _completely_ unfounded hysteria.
~~~
bitwize
True, but at the time, anyone who wanted to fly a plane (for recreation,
commercially, etc.) would be likely to use a flight sim as an inexpensive
starting point for training or practice, and that's not even counting the
people who might never step into a cockpit, but enjoy flight sims regardless.
Terrorism was a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the use cases for flight
simulators.
And when this happened, the dust had just settled on a big nontroversy over
the role of first-person shooters in real-life shootings -- arguably, a
stronger case can be built for restrictions on those (for example, not
allowing them to be sold to small children) than for restrictions on civilian
flight sims.
~~~
ceejayoz
Flight sims are a lot more useful than FPSes for training.
My first flight hour was an ILS approach in a King Air. Supervised, for sure,
but the owner was rather shocked I could navigate and follow glide slope
without any actual time in the air.
The same is not true for a FPS.
------
BitwiseFool
Kinda looks like 432 Park Avenue!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue)
------
GekkePrutser
Good to see OSM being actively used though.. I really love that project. And
the maps, at least here locally, are of amazing quality. When I'm hiking, on
Google and Apple maps I'm walking in a grey square. OSM has the tiniest
mountain trails. Love it.
And mistakes do happen, hope this one would get corrected though :) And it's
not the only one of its kind! Many are seen all around the world.
~~~
testrun
According to that twitter feed, it has been already corrected in OSM.
------
afandian
The ridiculousness of this brought unexpected joy. It reminded me of the The
Centrifuge Brain Project.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVeHxUVkW4w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVeHxUVkW4w)
~~~
phaedrus
It's like something The Culture might produce on a GSV that's gone Eccentric
and the crew just goes along with it.
------
adaisadais
I love the concept of massive buildings / structures in areas without such but
I don’t think the city people would enjoy such buildings in actuality.
The massive circular mine in Russia comes to mind (no pun intended).
~~~
eliaspro
Next to the medieval town of Rottweil in southwestern Germany, there's the
246m tall thyssenkrupp tower.
[https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Remote_views_o...](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Remote_views_of_Thyssenkrupp-
Testturm#/media/File%3ARottweil_Hochbr%C3%BCcke_Aufzugsturm.jpg)
It was built a few years ago as test facility for elevators, but has also
become wow a touristic attraction as it offers a publicly accessible platform.
~~~
cydonian_monk
That's actually a rather nice looking building. I suspect if something was
built here in the States for a similar purpose, not only would it not have
such an attractive exterior, but it almost certainly wouldn't have public
access. Most of our office skyscrapers aren't even open to the public as it
is.
------
Balgair
Aside: One of the best FSX posters out there is AirForceProud95. He's what got
me into flight sims, at least for a little while. A good compilation here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8E3SyMbaSk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8E3SyMbaSk)
------
java-man
Did Microsoft credit Open Street Map?
~~~
ceejayoz
It looks like OSM credits _Microsoft_ for a lot of that data.
[https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footp...](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footprint_Data)
~~~
rmc
That data has not been imported into OSM. That's just a wiki page detailing
the external data.
------
dwd
As an aside, I was curious how on a few of the trailers they feature out of
all the places in the world - Warrnambool (Victoria).
Given, it's a picturesque place (having grown up and gone to school there),
but maybe not as interesting as say a low level flyby of the 12 Apostles about
10min flight time back along the coast.
Was there a competition to get your town in the trailer, or one of the
developers grew up there and slipped it in?
------
52-6F-62
Oh that's too funny.
On a side note: I signed up for the discounted $1 trial month of Xbox Game
Pass just to try this game out. The download and installation process was
ridiculously slow and causing my CPU to ramp up to 80-100° even while
undervolting it. On a brand new i7 9750. Not sure what that was all about. I
put the process on pause... I am looking forward to giving it a try, though.
Anyone else have any difficulties?
~~~
naavis
I also had a weird issue where minimizing the Flight Simulator window during
the download/installation procedure bumped GPU usage to 55 % on a GTX 1070
until unminimizing the window again. GPU usage was hovering around 5-10% when
the window was not minimized.
~~~
tpmx
I got that too. Generalized - this is a consistent theme across the game. All
sorts of random buggy behavior. Stick a USB input device into the PC while the
game is running - it may well crash.
I recognize these kinds of bugs. They come from the developers _not_ having a
bottom-up understanding of the platforms they are working on. Instead they are
working from the easiest possible code path and then try their best to squash
all of the bugs, without really understanding the fundamentals.
~~~
naavis
I was able to crash the game once by turning on my Steam controller while the
game was running. Couldn’t reproduce it though.
~~~
tpmx
Just found my 3-month-old post where I posted a cautious note against the
hype:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23133623](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23133623)
------
xwdv
The article says it's impossibly narrow but is it really? It's only about 2.5
times taller than 432 Park Avenue in New York, but it also looks a little bit
wider.
A building like this would probably sway a bit more than usual at the top due
to being so tall and having no other wind breakers around it, but I imagine it
could be possible to build and live in safely.
~~~
rtkwe
It's taller (assuming just 10 feet per floor) than the Burg Khalifa. Super
tall structures require a far larger base to support against winds, as you go
up winds get faster and their leverage against the base increases.
~~~
spuz
10ft per floor would make it 2120ft or 646m tall. The Burj Khalifa is 829m
tall.
~~~
rtkwe
I was looking at the top floor height by accident, the last 200 feet or so are
a tower. It's a common cheat in the fight to be the world's tallest building,
build pretty tall then slap a bunch of floors or a tower on top that people
can't get into.
[https://qz.com/122356/44-out-of-72-of-the-worlds-tallest-
bui...](https://qz.com/122356/44-out-of-72-of-the-worlds-tallest-buildings-
are-cheating/)
------
rwmj
Now I'm wondering if in engineering terms such a tall, thin building could be
constructed.
~~~
ceejayoz
No one's gone _quite_ that big, but this one's similarly tall and skinny, and
~100 stories.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue)
~~~
jaypeg25
The 57th St Tower (still being built I think) is slightly taller and even
skinnier - and just as ugly. Really I think it detracts from the beauty of
Central Park.
~~~
jdpink
The skyscrapers are what makes Central Park unique. There are millions of
acres of parkland around the world. There is only one place where a park is
surrounded by the most iconic skyline in the world. That contrast between the
urban and the "natural" (there's little to no true wilderness in Central Park)
is what makes it beautiful to me.
~~~
bluthru
These supertalls are adding significant shadows to Central Park:
[https://www.westsiderag.com/2018/11/11/billionaire-
shadows-n...](https://www.westsiderag.com/2018/11/11/billionaire-shadows-now-
creeping-across-central-park-olmsted-and-vaux-would-not-be-happy)
~~~
cborg
I'm not sure I'd say "significant".
>This means that the lasting shadow coverage will be relatively faint. On the
winter solstice, the longest edge of the passing shadows cast from these
buildings is estimated to last one hour.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/21/upshot/Mappin...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/21/upshot/Mapping-
the-Shadows-of-New-York-City.html)
~~~
bluthru
>one hour
They're at the southern end of Central Park, which means that one hour is
lunch hour.
------
ipnon
I hope they keep the building or make it an option. This is the sort of
creativity that seems to only happen by accident. It makes the game better for
some people, they enjoy the fun backstory and challenge of navigating around
and landing on it.
------
carabiner
Let me remind all citizens of the dangers of magical thinking.
------
growlist
I really think this should now be built.
~~~
dwd
There have been ideas for a similar tower for decades.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grollo_Tower](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grollo_Tower)
------
tus88
There is something much funnier happening in Melbourne right now :D
------
screpy
LOL! Always remember to sanitise your data:
[https://twitter.com/liamosaur/status/1296305262144364544](https://twitter.com/liamosaur/status/1296305262144364544)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Story on Google Bias Reveals Left/Right Divide - pinche2
https://www.allsides.com/blog/project-veritas-story-google-bias-reveals-leftright-divide
======
bediger4000
The very name "allsides.com" indicates where the problem is: classic "both
sides!" arguments, where in fact, one side is absolutely nuts, but gets
presented as being sane and reasonable.
~~~
ddxxdd
Which side is nuts? Is it the one that rejects the irrefutable evidence of
Google's past and future election interference?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Internet is a surveillance state - lignuist
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/16/opinion/schneier-internet-surveillance/index.html?eref=edition
======
richardjordan
The elephant in the room that CNN doesn't want to talk about or admit to is
that much of the problem lies in Big Media (of which CNN is obviously a part).
US/Western media companies are more aligned with the government of China than
any notion of freedom when it comes to the interests they pour money into (as
opposed to platitudes they might espouse).
The push to lock down computers and make it hard/impossible to buy one that
doesn't clearly identify you - so that you cannot "steal" big media content -
is exactly what makes it hard/impossible to prevent yourself being tracked and
surveilled.
Can knowledgeable hackers beat the system...? Sure, somewhat, and increasingly
this is harder and harder to do. But society is lost in the middle not on the
fringes.
We live in the Panopticon [1] and this is a problem for many reasons. When a
small elite can strengthen its ability to pull the levers of power decision
making is concentrated in a smaller and smaller group. Small groups make worse
decisions than large scale collective "marketplaces" of ideas and thought.
This is what allowed the US and the West to flourish for so long. But it's
easily lost. We are moving to a world where elections lead to less and less
change, where major problems are going unresolved and punted to a future on
the assumption that exponentially growing challenges can be out-waited. The
only hope is in the increased connectivity of the Internet, access to
information, and ability to share dissenting views. As this is taken away, to
preserve Hollywood profits, and in the name of "security", we run further and
further off the cliff.
Even Wylie Coyote has to look down eventually and see that it's time to fall
to the canyon floor.
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon>
~~~
skrebbel
I can't help but wonder about the top rated comment on HN being one that
kindly shifts attention away from our beloved ad-powered Silicon Valley firms,
to the Real Bad Guys all the way in LA and Washington.
~~~
goldfeld
Exactly. When every other startup relies on ad revenue, they're nothing but
furthering the goals of big corporations and big media.
~~~
pyre
While I do believe that all of the reliance on ad revenue contributes to the
"Internet surveillance state," I wouldn't exactly say that the newspaper
industry would agree that ad-supported blogs are 'furthering their goals.' I
think that many big newspapers would disagree with you there.
------
gnosis
Many if not most HN users create software and internet infrastructure.
Collectively, we have so much power.
Yet much of what we make (directly or indirectly) is what the surveillance
state is built on. It relies on us to build it, make it work, and keep it
running.
If we care at all about privacy, we should think carefully about the privacy
impact of what we make, and try to make a positive difference (or at least do
no harm).
~~~
MichaelGG
I highly doubt that's a stable or dominant strategy. As long as there's
pressure to build systems, they will find people to build them. Not to
mention, those sorts of jobs can be fun, intellectually challenging problems.
Like Narus - we probably agree it's not in the world's interest to have
companies or governments with such technologies. But offered money and a
chance to work on such a system, I'd work on it in a heartbeat.
It's unlikely that there will be a shortage of qualified people or that the
extra money required will make any impact. And you could always take such
jobs, and donate to the EFF.
This is such a common argument, I'm sure it has a name.
~~~
gnosis
_"offered money and a chance to work on such a system, I'd work on it in a
heartbeat"_
You would. But that doesn't mean that everyone would.
I am appealing to those of us who value privacy and ethics above making a
quick buck or getting to play with neat toys.
It's not like there's some huge shortage of interesting technology jobs in
this second internet/startup bubble. And not all of these jobs are for
companies that want to spy on their users. Many of us still have a choice.
Even if you are at a company which spies on its users, you could at least try
to make some positive change from within, or at least avoid advocating for
going down the road of ever more surveillance and spying.
Way too many developers, VCs, and founders either don't consider the privacy
implications of what they're doing, or are only too happy to collect and sell
data about their users to the highest bidder.
This mercenary mentality is not some unchangeable part of human nature, but is
a learned attitude that can be countered and rejected.
~~~
MichaelGG
My point is that it's not even remotely practical to convince enough of the
population to "value privacy" so much that these things won't be built or to
even remotely hinder them. The population of earth is just too large. "HN
readers" aren't some magic special bunch that cannot be replaced.
> This mercenary mentality is not some unchangeable part of human nature
No, it's just basic game theory. The more people that refuse to sign up for
these "unethical" things, the higher the reward for those that do. And those
rewards are very small compared to the pressures involved.
So even if you succeed in convincing a ton of hackers to join your cause,
you've done what? Raised the salary from $250K to $750K a year for the people
that do defect? That's nice, but the actual effect on privacy is zero.
~~~
fredBuddemeyer
inspiration produces better everything (software) than lucre but if you wanna
talk $ rewards its obvious theres a mass market for privacy developing.
~~~
pyre
Please expand.
------
joblessjunkie
Rendering Mr. Schneier on CNN's website caused my browser to send requests to:
\- cnn.com and turner.com
\- disqus.com
\- facebook.net, facebook.com, and fbcdn.net
\- imrworldwide.com
\- cleanprint.net
\- outbrain.com
\- twitter.com and twimg.com
\- chartbeat.com
\- linkedin.com
\- googlesyndication.com and google-analytics.com
\- scorecardresearch.com
\- doubleclick.net
...and yields an unending stream of pings to chartbeat.net just to let them
know my tab is still open.
~~~
Silhouette
I long ago installed a plug-in that blocks most or possibly all of the above.
There are several now that will do this for, say, Firefox.
In a related benefit, sites load way faster for me and consume substantially
less bandwidth, since I'm not constantly waiting and paying to download the
malware that so many sites now feel the need to embed.
~~~
snowwrestler
Which one do you like the best?
~~~
Silhouette
Ghostery takes care of most such things, including blocking the major spying
tricks by the likes of Google and Facebook.
A decent ad blocker like AdBlock Plus will go some way to helping as well,
though it's more of a side effect in that case.
There's also BetterPrivacy, which mostly deals with the non-cookie cookies
like Flash LSOs.
Unfortunately, for reasons I can't fathom, even generally privacy-friendly
browsers like Firefox still seem quite happy to send vast amounts of
fingerprint-friendly information that serves almost no legitimate purpose to
anyone who cares to listen. However, there are clearly people thinking about
this, e.g., see <https://wiki.mozilla.org/Fingerprinting>.
~~~
pi18n
I learned recently that Ghostery is owned by Evidon [1] and thus no longer
trust it.
My solution on Chrome is AdBlock, NoScript, turn off Flash, and turn off
third-party cookies.
I prefer Firefox, which I additionally use CookieSafe, BetterPrivacy, and
RefControl.
[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidon>
~~~
BUGHUNTER
Besides a certain feeling about the company, do you have any hard facts that
might give some suggestions about ghostery not beeing trustworthy?
If you do not agree to send them data (config wizard first checkbox I think),
is there still data sent to them?
Feelings are ok, but keep them for your friends and family. We need facts
here, so please deliver.
~~~
pi18n
I have absolutely no facts whatsoever that they are misusing information. The
only fact is that they have an obvious conflict of interest. I assume people
interested in privacy would like to be aware of it. I'm sorry that you don't
consider it relevant but I am certain others do.
~~~
BUGHUNTER
I consider it relevant, otherwise I would not haved asked.
------
lifeisstillgood
No, no, no, no, no.
We are always under surveillance - my neighbours know I stay up late watching
crap tv, the bookshop assistant knows I browse the comics section but don't
buy, and a hundred people each day see me do weird or normal things.
I am not oppressed when they do that. Embarrassed maybe, but not dragged of
for "re-education".
As long as no-one uses the surveillance to force political outcomes from me or
any individual, then this is pollution, not dictatorship.
Yes we need radical privacy laws - but not ones trying to put the genie back
in the lamp. There are amazing benefits from technology - the sharing of
knowledge seamlessly across 7bn people is going to ,produce wonders we cannot
guess.
But we must embrace this new world - a world without secrecy. For privacy is
not secrecy - it is politeness of our neighbours.
The problem is not my neighbours who know, it is companies across the world
who now know. Their knowledge and actions are kept secret from me - and that
must be prevented. Sunlight is the best disinfectant applies to targeted ads
as much as corrupt politics.
Firstly any organisation that holds informant that can be used to identify and
track people must publish the identifications they hold in real time. Expect a
cottage industry of telling me about everything about me. Oh and those cottage
industries must publish as well. So not a profitable cottage industry. Seen me
walk out the door of mcdonalds after paying with my Loyalty card - great mail
me the link so I can see.
Secondly a legal framework that makes commercial profit from my identity only
allowed if I consent and preferably if I get a cut. Want to sell me ads -
great pay me. Oh suddenly finding ads less profitable? Want to sell me a
coffee after that burger - you could use the freely published info mcdonalds
has to fling my phone a coupon - but that's my information. I charge a flat 2c
for every commercial use of my info - I get 2c even if I don't want coffee.
Thirdly, get used to the idea your wife instantly knows you are sleeping with
the secretary.
~~~
eurleif
The surveillance you describe is ephemeral. After you move, your neighbors
will forget you ever existed. The bookshop assistant probably forgets you the
moment you walk out the door.
Internet data is not that way. It potentially lasts forever. A fear I've heard
expressed is that in the future, totalitarianism will arrive, and past data
will be used against people.
~~~
lifeisstillgood
Who will be running that totalitarian regieme and can we see their Facebook
pages from their early twenties?
In the end how the hell will you use data against people if you do not already
do all the dictator necessary things anyway - torture, secrecy,
disappearances. These are the things to fight, not the data storage but the
people torture.
March to stop privatisation of the army, to stop torture in our names, to stop
child labour. Fix those, then we have nothing to fear about our Facebook
shopping trends.
Edit: some might comment that eg their sexual preferences might be
discoverable on Facebook and that would be a breach of their rights to
privacy. Firstly we change privacy - it has always been politeness not to
mention what all your friends knew. The fact that anyone interested can now
piece it together does not change that.
Second - the use of that data "against" you only matters if it matters outside
of politeness. Alan Turing could not today be prosecuted for being gay, could
not be chemically castrated nor driven to suicide. Because the legal system
has been changed - so that the only thing that matters if people find out you
are gay is _politeness_. Live in a free society - have to learn to deal with
impoliteness. Don't live in a free society - deal with that not the Internet.
We know how to defeat dictators, and the iPhone won't fix it for free.
~~~
dwiel
This doesn't work if access to that information tempts those in power to do
things that they wouldn't have if the the information didn't exist.
~~~
lifeisstillgood
I kind of understand but I believe the benefits will outweigh the costs in all
cases, and we can mitigate with sensible laws respecting the rights of
individuals.
Or in short, that argument could have been made about fire, bronze, iron,
steel, writing, printing cameras etc
------
ilaksh
I think that this is one of the big reasons that privacy-focused named-data
networking will become popular. Another reason is that that model fits better
with most internet usage today where data is disseminated from a source to a
number of users.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Named_data_networking>
Of course, surveillance can be built into those types of systems as well, but
I think that the right engineering approach building in features like
encryption and anonymity, especially combined if possible with mesh networks,
could be a big advantage for privacy.
Also see <http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan>
------
seiji
[After-post update: I've no idea why this got auto-dead'd. Ideas?]
What is the way out though? Nobody cares about privacy. Nobody.
Google used to be happy divining long clicks from access logs. Then, they said
"screw privacy!" and started explicitly tracking every outbound search click
(I'm ignoring all your email, calendars, contacts, and phone data they have).
Twitter used to be happy being just messages, then they click-nabb'ed every
link. At least the interaction model on twitter is mostly benign.
Facebook does mephistopheles-knows-what with everything they have. It can't be
good. They're in an unspoken competition with Google for who can get users to
voluntarily exploit themselves over the widest personality surface area.
Then there's the hundreds of spy-tracking JS, ad networks (Hi,
Google/DoubleClick!), ad markets (Hi, AppNexus!), mobile networks logging
every URL you visit (Hi, Verizon!) and everything else tracking almost your
every move across the Internet.
Why don't we just make it illegal to have a webpage without embedding
<https://js.gov/tracker.js> and give the information to everybody in realtime?
------
ftwinnovations
"If the director of the CIA can't maintain his privacy on the Internet, we've
got no hope."
I couldn't help but laugh when I read that.
~~~
Dn_Ab
Interestingly, I consider that a fair equilibrium. Not something to despair
over. I think it would be worse if the director of the CIA could keep privacy
but not random individual. That power does not affect ability to avoid lack of
privacy means things are becoming more balanced.
~~~
lostnet
Yes, I'd say privacy is actually much more of a problem for the elite. How
many investigations dig up infidelity, etc, in the normal population and then
carefully step around it instead of enlarging the investigation?
But I do think the power elite are driven by excessive compulsions, and I
worry if we eliminate the ones with relatively normal/outside compulsions we
will be left with the Machiavellian freaks running everything.
------
WhoIsSatoshi
There is a privacy ecosystem that is rising from it all. There are ways. the
TOR network allows you to anonymize your dealings from your ISP. Some sites
are now advertising the anonymity and encryption they are using for their
services (MEGA). Bitcoin has seen a stellar growth (and still poised to) due
to its uncontrollable nature, and can be tweaked to achieve pseudo anonimity
through enough shuffling of the coins. Assange puts it best by saying that
"The universe believes in Encryption - [it] is the ultimate form of direct
non-violent action." What WE can do, is help put the blocks in place...
------
boi_v2
Why not stop using facebook, google, apple and all these surveillance tools?
Have you ever asked yourself why you can't remove the batteries of your
Iphone? Ow Yes, design is everyting.
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-
trac...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tracking-
prompts-privacy-fears)
Demand privacy, respect privacy, develop privacy and pay for those that offer
it to you.
"If you are not paying for a service you are the product being sold" and no,
google and facebook were never your friends.
Time to wake up!
~~~
nwh
I highly doubt the battery not being removable is designed to aid in tracking.
It's a vital part of making the iPhone smaller. Open one up and look inside if
you don't believe me.
------
robomartin
Sorry, I can't resist. And, I'll preface this by saying OF COURSE I AM JOKING.
Here it goes:
I've clashed many times with folks here on HN who are super-pro-government
liberals. They take every opportunity to point out how government has built
everything of value to us and how government has wisely invested in
infrastructure and other projects that make our lives possible. The
implication, of course, is that we should be pro-government, pay more taxes
and be thankful we are allowed to flourish under such a system.
One of their favorite things to say is "government created the Internet".
Fantastic! Let's take the good with the bad. If government is going to be
credited with the good then we credit them with the bad as well. They created
such a shitty system that we are all under surveillance, like it or not.
Not so you say? Well, this kind of thing was nearly impossible before our
government created the Internet. They must have had ulterior motives and knew
it could be used for this.
Why didn't they protect us with regulations BEFORE the Facebook's and Google's
of the 'net were even up and running? They knew what they were creating.
Anyhow. I am not much of a comedian but there's a joke in there somewhere. The
point is that government is an ass. They fuck-up nearly everything they do.
This "internet == surveillance state" thing is very real and it is something
governments (PLURAL) are benefiting from immensely. Never before in the
history of humanity has it been possible to spy on individual human beings
with this degree of granularity. And it won't get any better for probably
another five to ten years, if ever.
~~~
noarchy
>I've clashed many times with folks here on HN who are super-pro-government
liberals.
Since we're talking about the surveillance state, we shouldn't be leaving the
super-pro-government _conservatives_ out of this. In the US (where these
lib/con terms seem to matter most), both major parties love the surveillance
state, and this is tied in heavily with the warfare state that both parties
love as well.
I'm not very optimistic that the situation is going to improve. Privacy is
increasingly something of yesterday, not today, and certainly not of the
future. Those who will enjoy some degree of privacy will be the ones who know
how to achieve it, and many aren't going to bother, just as they don't today
(people are lining up to give it away, in fact).
>The point is that government is an ass. They fuck-up nearly everything they
do.
No disagreement here, though I'd suggest that the only things at which
government seems to excel are areas where no one should _want_ to excel. I'm
thinking primarily of war, excessive policing, and weird, arbitrary laws.
~~~
robomartin
> we shouldn't be leaving the super-pro-government conservatives out of this.
You are absolutely correct.
> the only things at which government seems to excel are areas where no one
> should want to excel. I'm thinking primarily of war, excessive policing, and
> weird, arbitrary laws.
That is probably true as well. It's sad to think that we will all live to see
more wars.
------
logn
"Increasingly, what we do on the Internet is being combined with other data
about us."
My fiance receives tampon ads during the appropriate time of the month on
Facebook.
------
webwanderings
And the irony for Schneier would be, if you share this article on Facebook or
anywhere, or heck even leave a comment there at CNN, you'd be tracked.
~~~
niggler
For the record, using chrome:
\- disconnect blocked Facebook, Linkedin, and Twitter
\- ghostery blocked more than 20 scripts from 10 different classes of trackers
(e.g. there are 5 different references to DoubleClick resources)
~~~
ohwp
And while using Disconnect and Ghostery you still got tracked by IP address,
your installed fonts, screen resolution, installed plugins, while your
internet activity was stored by your internet provider.
~~~
nawitus
Privacy is not a binary function, it's shades of gray.
------
rasur
"this is how liberty dies.. with thunderous applause"
------
rapind
Eventually there will be some good and accessible options that will enable you
to truly opt-out of the internet surveillance state.
Other than the occasional embarrassing thing (like googling a dance song) I
really can't think of anything I have to hide.
Even so, I would pay a subscription fee to keep all of my internet
communications completely private. I don't like being profiled, and it feels
like an infringement on my freedom. I would even pay enough of a fee that the
company I pay it too could in turn pay lobbyists to help protect their
interests or headquarter in another country etc.
And the worse it gets, the more I'm willing to pay.
I'm sure I'm a minority right now, but I think our numbers are growing.
------
peripetylabs
I used to think people actually wanted privacy. (I did, why wouldn't everyone
else?) But the data does not support that hypothesis -- in fact, I think the
exact opposite is true.
People's personal information is not being stolen from them, it is given away;
and not even for free -- more than 70% of the US population [1] pays an ISP a
monthly fee in order to connect to Facebook's servers and upload their data.
That is how the Internet works -- it is not Facebook sending the SYN packets.
In general society (outside of our tiny bubble), _not_ having a Facebook
account is considered strange. It is even seen as grounds for suspicion of
criminal activity. [2]
Everyone says they want to eat right, exercise and be healthy, but more than a
third of them are obese. [3] The surveillance state is not happening _despite_
us, it is precisely what the majority of people want, even as they deny it. If
you wish to change this unfortunate fact, change the culture.
[1] [http://www.onlineschools.org/visual-academy/facebook-
obsessi...](http://www.onlineschools.org/visual-academy/facebook-obsession/)
[2] [http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-
te...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-tech-
abandoners-people-without-facebook-accounts-are-suspicious/) [3]
<http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html>
------
rayj
From a linked article in TFA: "Monsegur was a Tor user, although he was caught
after logging on to IRC without going through Tor."
So he forgot to route IRC through Tor. Luckily there are a couple live distros
that do it automatically, like tails. There are also VPN that accept payment
in bitcoin, so anonymity is still preserved.
This doesn't matter in the scope of the article though, since obviously we are
talking about people who are not going to any precautions to hide their
privacy.
------
hugofirth
This comment probably won't go down well considering the audience ... but here
goes:
Yes the internet is a surveillance state ... and that is terrible ... except
... except ... is it?
My long held belief is that in an age where even the most tech-savvy cannot
possibly remain anonymous all the time our best hope for privacy is in the
simply overwhelming volume of data being collected. Unless I do something
worthy of government attention I have reason to believe no human is going to
closely examine my gmail - why on earth would they?
Therefore the only breach of privacy is by a parser collecting information for
an algorithm. So I get a few ads in gmail ... 90% of the time I ignore them
... the other 10% of the time I would MUCH rather they were targeted at my
interests than just meaningless drivel! Furthermore - if the ad revenue
collected by these companies allows them to continue to improve a free service
I love then power to them! People bitch about ads, without considering the
reality that without them most of the service we value which make up the
internet would not exist without them. You can't always have your cake and eat
it.
Lastly I would like to address the point of privacy invasion by a government
body. This is nothing new! It has just become easier. I live in the UK - a
tiny island with 4,000,000 CCTV cameras. There is probably an accumulation of
hundreds of hours of footage of me throughout my life... So What ?! I have
done nothing wrong, and if the existence of that footage allows the prevention
or solving of even one crime then I'm all for it.
If a government body wants your data - the chances are they are going to get
it. Through warrant or some other means. The acceleration of this process is
not necessarily a bad thing. They are, after all, the elected officials.
Anyway /rant (... runs and hides)
~~~
Uhhrrr
i agree with you about how nice it is to have targeted ads (although Google
still hasn't gotten good enough that I have ever clicked on anything).
The dangers for the government are when it uses its powers to stay elected
(Nixon), or spy on activists (Nixon, Bush), or pilfer the IP of other
countries (Airbus). And of course these dangers also apply to commercial
enterprises - if I were a MS competitor, I sure as heck wouldn't allow Skype
in the office.
------
xxchan
Hahaha, there's a hilarious typo in the article. ".. one of the leaders of the
LulzSac hacker movement.." It feels oddly appropriate.
------
jflatow
Great read, but I wish he hadn't glossed over the part about not being
something the free market can fix; and explained why only strong government
will can.
He admits that governments are partaking in the frenzy at least as much as are
companies, but doesn't explain why it would be easier to get a government to
change, than to change a company, or start a new one.
~~~
elwin
I think it's more accurate to say that the free market currently does not
think that Internet surveillance is a problem. Consumers in general have
decided that for Internet services and Internet access devices, factors such
as cheapness, ease of use, and trendiness are more important than privacy.
Governments are able to reach more definitive consensus than free markets - a
market would be not easily be able to make everyone use an anonymizing proxy,
for example, but a government could legislate that. Governments can also move
costs around, such as by funding a national proxy service with tax money.
But on one level, free markets and democratic governments are both just
methods that societies use to enforce their collective wills. There are limits
to how much their decisions can differ. There's a reason Schneier calls a
situation created by Internet _companies_ a surveillance _state_.
------
jiggy2011
The technology exists for the privacy conscious to greatly reduce their track-
ability.
However the problem is that the platform which are becoming more popular for
convenience reasons such as ChromeOS or iOS do not necessarily make this stuff
easy or even possible.
I would be much happier to recommend these systems to people if they did not
lose this control.
------
zenbowman
Its not like people are victims here, for the most part they've chosen the
"free" privacy violating services over the paid ones every time.
If people cared about their privacy, this wouldn't be the case, they'd be
willing to pay for useful services. There was a chance that a market could
have developed for services that protected privacy, but thats long gone.
At this point kids growing up are used to the idea of a world withoit secrets.
Its terrifying to people over 30, but it could lead to a better world, because
even those in power cannot escape the watchful eye of Big Brother.
~~~
betterunix
That would be a fine argument if the majority of computer users actually
understood what tracking is being performed and how it is performed. Most
computer users have no idea how they are tracked, nor do they understand how
they can be tracked.
People generally do not know how their computers work, and companies take
advantage of that ignorance when they track people. Most people do not
understand that they are trading privacy for access to websites and web apps.
"At this point kids growing up are used to the idea of a world [without]
secrets"
Nonsense. Kids just have a different idea about what should be kept secret.
There are still plenty of in-the-closet gay teenagers whose friends understand
that they are being trusted with a secret. Plenty of kids have odd habits they
do not want to tell their friends about. Teenagers still keep secrets from
their parents -- that is basically an invariant. There are many college
students who work hard to keep their Facebook profiles "clean" in an attempt
to present the best image possible to potential future employers.
What has changed is the meaning of keeping things secret. A 15 year old in-
the-closet gay teenager most likely has no idea that "deleting" a "private"
message sent over Facebook does not actually delete the message from
Facebook's servers. That same teenager probably has no idea that his public
"friends" list is sufficient to determine that he is gay with high
probability. _That_ is the problem society faces right now: people _want_ to
keep things secret, but it is very difficult to actually do so.
I think that eventually society will adapt and people will learn how to keep
secrets in an age of widespread surveillance. It is inevitable: eventually
there will be so many incidents of embarrassing secrets being revealed by
these various companies that people will start to use technologies to hamper
the tracking.
------
CurtMonash
Scheier is right that information will be collected, and that the government
will have access to it. That genie is out of the bottle. But there is still
hope for reasonable and even strong controls on the USES of information. This
is exactly the distinction I've been drawing for years, e.g. in
[http://www.dbms2.com/2012/03/01/where-the-privacy-
discussion...](http://www.dbms2.com/2012/03/01/where-the-privacy-discussion-
needs-to-head/)
------
dreamfactory
A lot of commenters focussing here on technical privacy solutions - but that
seems to be missing the current move towards behavioural tracking. And the
irony is that this is a lot of the really exciting stuff for many here - look
at truelens and storm for example. Given the adulation and reverence here for
highly politically engaged and extreme right-wing characters like Peter Thiel,
we shouldn't be at all surprised by this kind of outcome.
------
EEGuy
Coincidentally, the CISPA is up for debate again in the House.
However you feel about such surveillance, it legal scope and extent _is_ being
democratically debated now.
You can contact your Representative using this site:
<http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/>
Speak your mind to your Rep. It's how Representative Democracy works.
------
Create
[http://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-
WhyFreedomOfThoughtReq...](http://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-
WhyFreedomOfThoughtRequiresFreeMediaAndWhyFreeMedia)
[https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-
archives/dc-18-archive....](https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-
archives/dc-18-archive.html#Marlinspike)
------
rasengan0
When the gold rush came, it was easy to see that prospecting was not where the
value was at. Smart entrepreneurs sold pans, shovels and dungarees. Likewise
in the age of surveillance, the Ciscos and Choicepoints rake in, handing off
infrastructure and data to the highest bidder. The gold ran out, but we still
have the Gap.
------
billhorvath
From my perspective, the problem is that these companies are effectively
acting as government agents. FWIW, I blogged about it here:
[https://considerforexample.com/less-government-is-more-
gover...](https://considerforexample.com/less-government-is-more-government/)
------
billhorvath
I put up a perspective on this not too long ago; see
[https://considerforexample.com/less-government-is-more-
gover...](https://considerforexample.com/less-government-is-more-government/)
------
richcollins
_This isn't something the free market can fix_
He assumes that people care and are willing to change technology but can't for
some reason. In my experience, people don't care.
------
webwanderings
> We can use an alias on Facebook
I'm not following. How does one use alias on Facebook?
~~~
JonnieCache
Just change your name to a fake name. There's no magic.
~~~
webwanderings
Well then Facebook doesn't really work or does it? Facebook works best if you
keep it confined to your friends and family, the people you know in-person.
Having a fake name would defeat that purpose.
~~~
niggler
Facebook works best when you don't use it :) I prefer in-person discussions.
If that's not possible, calling > texting > email > physical mail. every other
solution is irrelevant to me.
~~~
ams6110
I have this in my /etc/hosts:
127.0.0.1 www.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 facebook.com
127.0.0.1 connect.facebook.net
127.0.0.1 facebook.net
127.0.0.1 ads.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 ads.ak.facebook.com
Anyone know of any others?
~~~
tquai
Run your own resolver on 127.0.0.1, and your own authoritative nameserver on
127.0.53.1, and configure the resolver to ask the nameserver (returning
NXDOMAIN) for
* facebook.com
* doubleclick.net
* google-analytics.com
* su (abuse)
* 2o7.net
* any others you want; get ideas from the MVPS hosts file
Since facebook domains (fbcdn.net, facebook.net, etc.) are all serviced by
facebook.com nameservers, returning NXDOMAIN for *.facebook.com will thereby
sabotage all facebook related queries. This way you won't have to play whack-
a-mole with future facebook tracking hosts, so long as they use facebook.com
nameservers.
Or hell, just create a list of prefixes announced & owned by AS32934,
Facebook, and block all. Just to be sure.
------
nwzpaperman
People have control over their individual online use cases and should assume
more personal responsibility for managing their online profile. It is
voluntary to join the LE email spam network, FB/G privacy invasion operations,
disqus commenting, etc.
It's a shame that these social networks that were intended to enable friend
and family (biz in LE case) have devolved into open public access to your
personal interactions. As they further infringe on the original use cases more
people will leave them for alternative solutions.
~~~
nsmartt
unfortunately, the average user is convinced that one has no problem if one
has nothing to hide. i don't foresee the average user deciding to jump ship
without a strong push.
~~~
gnosis
I don't think the typical user thinks he's got nothing to hide.
More probably, he doesn't realize just how much he's spied on or by whom. Nor
does he realize how the information these spies gather on him could be or is
being used to his detriment.
He also probably doesn't know about any privacy-respecting alternatives, or if
he does, he finds them too much of a pain to use, or doesn't want to sacrifice
his Facebook friends or his nifty smartphone.
Fortunately, the masses are slowly becoming educated, more computer literate,
and more privacy/security aware overall. It is heartening to see stories about
online privacy on mainstream news sites like CNN. Being a victim of identity
theft, stalking, or harrassment can also be an unfortunate but powerful wake
up call to the need for privacy.
It's a slow process, but the more people become aware of their vulnerability
and victimization by the surveillance state, the more they will try to seek
alternatives and call for positive change. I just hope by then it won't be too
late.
~~~
nsmartt
I wish I could agree, but I recently explained to one of my most intelligent
friends just how much tracking is done, by whom, and how. She just argued that
she didn't have anything to hide. A few days later, she admitted that I might
have a point, but still wasn't interested in ditching Facebook.
I hope you're right. If something doesn't change for the masses, alternatives
will never really gain traction.
~~~
nwzpaperman
A lot of the tracking technology is developing from the advertising space, but
also to monetize clicks for affiliate commissions. It's the same technology
applied to an adjacent market.
<http://www.viglink.com/>
The throughput, latency, computing power and memory wasn't sufficient to do
what we can do today a short 5-10 years ago. The hardware has advanced so much
over the past decade that it is attainable at the consumer/non-sovereign level
now. Anyone with a thousand bucks free monthly cash flow and the coding chops
can get very far independently.
------
youngerdryas
Does anyone have more info on Apple tracking users, he didn't post a link. All
I can find is the log file debacle from two years ago.
~~~
zimbatm
I don't have any info on intentional tracking but Macs surely do leak a lot of
data. If you install Little Snitch you will have a better feeling of what is
being sent over the network. These are the rules that I have regarding apple:
* aosnotifyd: aosnotify.me.com * AppleIDAuthAgent: identity.apple.com * apsd: push.apple.com * assistand: apple.com * helpd: apple.com * imagent: apple.com * IMRemoteURLConnectionAgent.xpc: apple.com * ntpd: time.euro.apple.com * SoftwareUpdateAgent: sw _.apple.com_ storeagent: apple.com * SyncServer: configuration.apple.com * ubd: configuration.apple.com * XProtectUpdater: configuration.apple.com
The mac is able to change your timezone depending on your location. I don't
think it would be too hard for Apple to build a precise profile of my location
and movements if they wanted to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lefsetz Letter - Apple/EMI/DRM - "Why the fuck should they cost more?" - jamiequint
http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/04/02/appleemidrm/
======
shsung
What an angry letter. They upped the quality of the music and charged a little
more for it, there's nothing wrong with that. They charge what they think the
market is willing to bear, not what it might be "truly worth." A Louis Vuitton
bag costs a whole lot less to make than to sell, but prices will never go
down, because that's what people are willing to pay.
If others join in to compete in the DRMless music wave, then at best we can
hope it will drive the price down. That's competition at its best, an effort
to capture the market by constantly producing something better OR cheaper (and
not necessarily both). At the very least, you're getting something better.
------
mattjaynes
It would have been lame if they had just removed the DRM and upped the price -
but the fact that they also _doubled_ the audio quality is probably a good-
will move to give the user additional value for the cost. The new audio files
will be 256kbps instead of the current 128kbps - most folks are forgetting
this in their analysis of the pricing.
And seriously - I think I've been spoiled reading pg articles. It feels like
this guy's yelling and spitting on you as you read it, blah.
------
domp
Once they start giving the artist's a bigger cut of the prices then I'll start
to care. Right now 35% is going towards Apple, and I'm sure EMI is seeing
about 70% of each sale. I couldn't care less if EMI and Apple make more money
off of their artists and consumers. The whole DRM thing was bound to fail
anyways.
~~~
greendestiny
What I don't understand is why we treat artists like retards. They don't need
to be saved from themselves and they enter into these deals more than
willingly. Artists like to pretend that they are at the mercy of the labels
whilst supporting the system.
~~~
domp
The reason is because there was no other outlet that had the ability to make
them rich and famous overnight. The major labels controlled all of the media
outlets until the internet came along.
Nowadays hardly any band would choose a major label over a large independent.
There is no benefits anymore. Anyone can reach that critical mass of users
without having to use Rolling Stone or MTV.
The people that sign to major labels, for the most part, want to be rich and
famous. They aren't trying to make a career out of their music but more a
career out of themselves. If not then they would be playing a local club in
New Hampshire on the weekends.
So, in my opinion, it's more about the artists being retards. They see that
major labels are a fast track to millions of records being sold. They don't
want to spend years in clubs to gain traction. They don't want to sell CDs out
of their cars. They don't want to save up to produce their own record. They
want to take the easy way out and have someone else do the work. It is their
own fault for signing a major label contract that takes advantage of them. If
they are incapable of seeing better outlets for their music then they deserve
to deal with the horrible circumstances of being on a big label.
Sorry this is so long.
------
greendestiny
So for years people have begged for DRMless music, because they want it more
than DRM'd music. If thats true then they'll pay more, competition with other
DRMless sources will hopefully eventually drive down the price.
------
nirs
Better product, higher price?
~~~
JMiao
Not really considering they're finally giving users something that should have
been established day 1.
~~~
nirs
So you agree with me - this is a better product :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Where to Find Computer Science Research Papers? - crowhack
My brief search into this only led to the ACM digital library, which seems pretty good. Are there any other services, free or paid, that provide access to old and new computer science research?
======
yesenadam
Library Genesis has scientific article search (and free and instant download).
It finds almost everything I search for, even obscure papers from early 20th C
or before.
[http://gen.lib.rus.ec/](http://gen.lib.rus.ec/)
Also you can click on the journal titles and explore within each issue.
------
yasp
[https://whereisscihub.now.sh](https://whereisscihub.now.sh)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What according to you is the biggest problem with MOOCs? - manishreddyt
======
ekpyrotic
Self-directed learners study subjects that complement their current interests
and obsessions. Presently I am interested in the European sovereign-debt
crisis, so it is natural to go ahead and study the history of the Eurozone.
Now, taken over time, these topics will form a natural chain, networking with
my present interests and previous topics of study. I might move from studying
'neoliberalism' to 'Margaret Thatcher' to 'Ronald Reagan', and onwards.
As this example suggests, autodidacts will quite naturally get stuck in topic
chains, studying subjects that share a particular outlook, an outlook they
take an interest in (be that outlook political, economic, or otherwise).
As such, autodidacts will inevitably study a syllabus that reflects, supports,
and reinforces their current inclinations. Or, put more pointedly, there is no
obvious mechanism by which self-learners will come to grapple with divergent
viewpoints or challenging disciplines.
There is cause for confusion here. I am not claiming that self-directed
learners will consciously choose to ignore alternative perspectives, only that
this pattern naturally results from the way an autodidact studies. If I start
reading the work of some libertarian political thinker, the thinker's
intellectual predecessors or successors is the next obvious topic of study.
The starting point lays a train-track into similar material.
(Similar anxieties have been articulated by Eli Pariser about the social Web.
Pariser argues that Google's powerful filtering algorithm—informed by previous
searches—skims off content that challenges a searcher's current outlook in
order to return better search results, meaning that users browse the Web
within an intellectual bubble.)
Additionally, I do not argue that well-organised and broad-minded autodidacts
cannot escape this trap. Only that it is difficult to do so. Firstly, this
pattern usually takes place without the learner's awareness, meaning they
cannot take remedial steps. And, secondly, it is easy to imagine a learner
ceaselessly kicking divergent perspectives into the long grass; "I'll read one
more liberal thinker before I crack open Hayek".
But, importantly, universities disrupt this pattern.
Unlike critics seem to believe, universities comprise more than a succession
of uniform courses on bland topics. Instead, they are the pooling point for a
generation of young people from disparate backgrounds with divergent politico-
cultural perspectives.
This vibrant academic social fabric provides the natural environment for
informed, critical dialogue and the exchange of ideas and opinions. And, it is
through such exchanges that our ideas are challenged, deconstructed, and
rebuilt.
Of course, I am liable to an accusation of idealism. Firstly, for believing
that university is any more than a stopgap between high school and work for
young people to drink, party, and have sex. Or, for believing truly socially
mixed universities exist. I do not deny that second-rate party schools exist,
nor that the West is diseased with economic inequality. But, these are not
essential to the university system. And, I am optimistic that our governments
are taking proactive steps to rectify both problems.
Taken together, I worry that self-directed learning lends itself to an
arrogant self-belief in one's opinions and a lack of regard for the complexity
and nuances of politico-cultural debates, and that the platform universities
provide for open interaction between peoples of different socio-economic
background has been largely ignored.
(Note: from an article I wrote way back when)
~~~
ph0rque
One of the ideas my boss and I had for a while is the concept of a knowledge
tree, with an app that shows you where your branches aren't balanced, in a
particular area. Perhaps one day we'll make that app :)
------
jnord
Having done three courses with both Coursera and Udacity, I can honestly say
that my biggest gripe with MOOCs is their emphasis on transmitting information
sequentially, that is, via video lectures.
Seriously, what is wrong with putting up some nice readable-at-own-pace
lecture material that is hyperlinked and indexed correctly so that I don't
have to rewind videos if I missed something?
~~~
ivan_ah
Wouldn't you get lost in all the content? If you are free to read in any order
you could get into a wikipedia-like situation where you keep opening new tabs
non-stop and you lose track of the original thing you were reading about.
I generally agree with you though that having a SINGLE path through the course
is too restrictive. It should be like in games: there is a main quest, but you
can go on mini-quests on the side...
~~~
caw
Professors take side quests too in their lectures. Sometimes they turn out to
be quite lengthy.
------
pdm55
I did a 6 week MOOC on statistics from Coursera. I am a Math and Chemistry
teacher and I did the course to upgrade my own knowledge. I wasn't working at
the time and I was able to put in about 10 hrs a week.
I was impressed. It was better than any other face-to-face uni courses I had
done.
I liked the interaction with other students. There was a forum and a Facebook
page where we helped each other. I liked getting study notes from other
students and I liked guiding others in solving the problems.
A video was better than sitting in a lecture hall, suffering from information
overload and unable to stop the lecturer. A video I could pause and take
notes. I could rewind to hear something explained again.
It took about an hour to get through a 20 min video. Originally the videos had
no text, but, following an outcry from the students, text was supplied. For
me, notes would have been better: I could have listened to the video, using it
to expand the notes.
What was wrong with the MOOC? A thousand and one things if you simply counted
the number of pages in the Forum. \- Video presentations are too dry. \- The
assessment doesn't match the videos. \- Videos have to be supplemented with
text. \- The course description doesn't clearly explain what prior knowledge
you need. The saying "You cannot please all the people all the time" springs
to mind.
What are deal breakers for MOOC? Paul Graham believes that online learning
will more easily cater for uni courses than school-based assessment. The block
he says is the bureaucracy oversight that surrounds schools.
Why does this bureaucracy exist? To protect and nurture the family's greatest
asset, the children. In advanced economies, with children no longer working
beside their parents in the fields, schools are a means of ensuring one's
children are safe and learning skills that will generate an income in the
future.
As one teacher with grown-up children explained it to me: "Schools will always
be necessary - with both parents working who is going to babysit/teach their
little darlings?!"
------
ht_th
They're solving an educational problem -- that is, how to deliver instruction
to a large audience --, but not an learning problem. Does it support / improve
deep learning? How are social-cultural factors of learning taken care of? What
exactly is assessed? How is students' (and teachers') reflection on their own
learning process supported (if at all)
I think most of these problems can be overcome, although probably not by
translating traditional instruction and educational ideas more or less
directly to MOOCs, but by exploring new ways of instruction, teaching,
studying, and learning. I fear, however, that this will not happen (soon, or
at a large scale), and MOOCs will become the poor mans' only educational
opportunity, creating an educational/learning divide between those who will
have access to small-scale quality instruction and those that have only access
to MOOCs.
For governments and schools MOOCs make it easy to implement 'education for
all' while cutting costs. For example, I could imagine high schools to stop
offering advanced placement classes or some subjects locally, but instead
offering access to MOOCs on those topics with some local supervision by people
not schooled (and payed) as teachers. Similarly, I could imagine the
government giving free access to MOOCs to all, while, at the same time,
cutting on general scholarships.
------
bakli
I don't believe I have the self discipline to complete these online courses. I
start with great enthusiasm and after one or two weeks, everything's gone. The
reason why this happened in coursera was because I had two weeks free time and
the course was of 6 weeks. After initial two weeks, I got a little busy and
neglected everything from course eventually giving up on the idea of being
able to complete it.
~~~
queensnake
Udacity has some permanently-on courses, where you go at your own pace. It's
wonderful for the ability to binge study, but the lack of schedule might allow
you to push it off indefinitely. For my own part that's still an open
question, but I loved being able to binge during the easy part.
------
tinyProton
Deadlines. I want to be able to take courses and complete them whenever I have
time.
Almost all Coursera's coursers have weekly deadlines. If you got busy for a
couple of weeks during the course time you will fall behind. And the chances
that you would get busy are quite high given that some of the courses last for
more than three months.
------
brudgers
They are modeled after bricks and mortar institutions.
My wife taught online for UoP. They used NNTP and a book. No video. No
interactive games. It worked because it recognized that the sizzle was the
degree. It worked because they weren't trying to sell it to established
institutional interests - e.g. department heads and professors and
administrators who want to make sure that streaming video can go on their CV.
------
queensnake
Lack of academic credit. Often being /half/ of a class.
------
brwr
MOOCs don't solve a problem. In my opinion, they only perpetuate that
university is the answer to life, the universe, and everything in it. The fact
is that university-style education (inactive lectures and wrote memorization)
are not the answer for a large number of people. We need to get away from
assigning one-off projects and instead focus on projects with long-term
development potential.
------
anywherenotes
Peer grading. For classes that can be tested for correctness automatically I
don't see any issues. But when your class is on writing, and you get peer
reviewed and graded ... you risk getting random grades+feedback.
~~~
manishreddyt
That is a serious problem. Let's see how they handle this.
------
aaron695
They cost nothing so are considered by participants internally to have no
value and hence are treated as such.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Clear Channel becomes iHeartMedia, Inc - coreymgilmore
http://www.clearchannel.com/Pages/Home.aspx
======
pendevere
It is hard to recall a more beautiful corporate name morphing into something
so hideous.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: I want to build a cable company. How would I get started? - jayzalowitz
I want to build a cable company that centers around viewer types. Basically, it is my understanding that the majority of my cable costs centers around channels (like fox) that I just dont watch, if I wanted to build a system that let customers limit this, where would I get started?
======
windexh8er
Having worked at the largest-small ISP in the US (>250k subs). Very ambitious,
and I think it can be done, however your biggest problem is in the over-build.
What that means is you will have to engineer and deploy your own HFC (hybrid
fiber coaxial) network first. If your original intent was to lease space on an
existing provider's network, and potentially buy some frequency on their coax
you're in very steep uphill battle. Even if a provider did happen to let you
do this you're beholden to them at that point and they, bluntly, have you by
the nuts if you start to threaten them. Meanwhile overbuilding where there
already is infrastructure isn't very efficient as you have to plan and
engineer (if you have no experience with this think civil + RF + data
engineering collaboration plus legal hoops for right-of-way and licensure into
actually laying fiber and coax). Add to that along the way you'll piss people
off for digging in their yards.
Sure, you can sell channels a la carte, however say you purchase 5 channels -
and you have 50 customers. Say every person of the 50 only chooses one to
subscribe to, now you only have a ratio of payment for 10 customers per
channel. This will likely put you in the red right there since each channel
has a pretty steep licensing fee for distribution. Once you get to scale -
this could work, but it would almost be easier for you to go in and buy out a
small customer base instead of starting from scratch.
On top of all these considerations realize if you're offering Internet and/or
phone you need CMTS and phone switching systems plus the engineering clout to
run them. If you plan on spanning multiple cities then you have to deal with
leasing or running your own fiber and then building out transport back-haul
(Infinera is an awesome company for DTN platforms BTW).
Long story short - you need a lot of smart people to help you design and build
this out, and if you've never worked with any ISP engineering verticals you've
got a ton to learn. Keep in mind this equipment is pricey and the only way to
make a good profit is to own your networks end to end (we were turning up 1 &
10 Gb circuits like hot cakes after we installed a new 1Tb system and since we
owned all the infrastructure we were looking at tacking on another Tb right
behind it to keep pace with demand - but keep in mind all the Tier 1
connectivity you need to support this as well).
Good luck!
~~~
eclipticplane
Not to mention that many of the channels are run by the same network. It's
unlikely they would license one channel to you without all of their channels
unless you have massive financial clout to effectively shut out their
other/useless channels.
------
patio11
Could I suggest something a smidgeon less capital-intensive and ambitious for
your first business? In addition to a successful outcome making your cable
bill irrelevant to your personal happiness, the experience may demonstrate how
far an innovative charging model and a viable business idea are from each
other.
P.S. If insanely ambitious ideas are within the project scope, your plan
should probably be closer to YouTube/Spotify/etc for TV rather than actually
running a cable company, because owning wire has little to recommend it if
your primary concern is ability to negotiate Extraordinarily Favorable (TM)
licensing terms. Buying $200 million of copper would make 0 progress to that
goal.
~~~
w1ntermute
This brings up a good question. Why hasn't anyone tried to undercut cable
providers by creating a "TVoIP" service that piggybacks on Internet
connections the way VoIP services have done to undercut phone companies? I
imagine the requisite Internet speeds are there, since Netflix works for most
people.
~~~
PeterisP
A major point is that the content sellers do not want you to undercut their
cable partners (cannibalize their sales), so they will charge you more than
the cable companies. In essence, expect that if they are getting $x from
subscriber that is getting 10 of their channels from a cable package, then
they will want you to pay at least $x for the same subscriber. It is not in
their interest to allow the subscriber to get less channels for less money, so
they can simply disallow it.
VoIP service providers are creating and selling their own "goods". Cable
companies and "TVoIP" companies are resellers of something that is owned and
controlled by others, and it's not a commodity. If a channel owner decides
that they don't like TVoIP (or your particular TVoIP) for whatever reason,
tough luck. You might convince them with a lot of money - but even Netflix and
Hulu are not really enough for that.
~~~
w1ntermute
> A major point is that the content sellers do not want you to undercut their
> cable partners
Why not? By reducing my costs (by piggybacking on existing internet
infrastructure), I could pass on (part of) the savings to the content sellers.
So it would be a profitable decision for them.
~~~
PeterisP
The big question is, can you? The cable TV delivery costs are not that big
compared to content costs. Can you really offer a substantial markup for the
content even if you halve the delivery costs, and still offer a competitive
solution that customers would want?
And internet delivery is far from free. If you want live TV, the bandwidth and
jitter requirements are enormous, the burst requirements for fast channel
switching are a pain. We launched a small IPTV project last year, and IIRC our
delivery costs were actually higher than those of a comparable cable operator
- the benefit was flexibility and extra features, not cost.
~~~
w1ntermute
> The cable TV delivery costs are not that big compared to content costs.
I was under the impression that infrastructure buildout was very expensive and
was the main reason why it took someone of Google's size to create a new fiber
service.
> If you want live TV, the bandwidth and jitter requirements are enormous, the
> burst requirements for fast channel switching are a pain.
Netflix seems to be pulling it off OK. Do you mean that the costs are high for
the business (in terms of bandwidth spent delivering content) or that the
costs are high for consumers (in terms of getting a fast enough connection to
make this realistically possible)?
~~~
PeterisP
The reason it took Google is that this is an economy of scale industry - it
doesn't make financial sense to do anything small, you invest either a lot or
nothing. That's what "barriers of entry" mean.
I am speaking about the technical bandwidth burst + jitter requirements on the
whole channel from your [caching] servers to the settopbox or equivalent.
Netflix is not available where I live, but as far as I know, it's not a TV
service, it's a completely different animal. Launching a movie is trivial
because it's done once. For TV, imagine a person on a couch with a remote
pressing the 'next channel' button, browsing through 10+ live TV channels in
one minute. It is a major pain to get this experience to feel pleasant on an
internet TV setup.
Movies can have a small buffer for better viewing experience, but a live
football game needs to be, well, live - so that you see a goal before getting
a tweet or SMS about it.
------
fleitz
Print a sell sheet of the channels you want to offer in various packages. Go
door to door and ask if anyone would be interested in switching.
Once you have a decent number of potential customers in a small area phone the
content providers and find out how much it is to license the channels.
If you're still profitable you'll then need to estimate costs for building out
your headend, source a location for your satellite dishes, call centres, etc.
Find out costs for this. A lot of cable companies, especially Rogers in Canada
outsource a lot of their infrastructure / install work, you should be able to
find out from their builders rough estimates of build out costs.
Write a business plan and then find out if you can find someone to fund it.
When you find someone to fund it, go build it, then sign up your customers.
But seriously the trick to this plan is to figure out how _NOT_ to build out
cable infrastructure, I'd look at piggy backing on LTE / Internet in the same
way that hulu/netflix/youtube do.
You'd be far better off spending $50 million figuring out how to build
synthetic aperture recievers / transmitters and figuring out how to transmit
data over the wifi spectrum within the power limits outlined by the FCC rather
than building $50 million in 1990s cable infrastructure.
------
johnrgrace
First figure out how you're going to get the content to people.
Cable delivered via wire is considered to be a natural monopoly that in the
united states cities (or other sub state level groups) grant one company the
rights to string cable i.e. the Cable Franchise Fee. Running a second set of
wires is expensive, and simple economics are going to have every existing
cable company keep you out of their system. Google's fiber is the one set of
to the house pipes that MIGHT let you use them. So unless you have lots of
money doing it the "industry standard way" isn't going to be possible.
So long as you're tied to using wires cable systems are local monopolies and
capital intensive, figure out a good way to bypass this any you may have a
good business.
Go look at Comcasts financial statements if you want to see what the cost
structures are. Note they're spending 13% of revenue on Capital expenditures.
In 2011 they spent 40% of revenues on Programing ($19,625 in video
revenue,$7,870 on programing).
<http://www.cmcsk.com/earnings.cfm>
Second, figure out if the content providers will even let you have the
content.
Cable is a big market, a business that could disrupt it would do well.
~~~
nilsbunger
Nice. A direct link to the 2011 10K with parent's figures is at:
[http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/CMCSA/2210267075x0x56...](http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/CMCSA/2210267075x0x561695/79426950-eb48-4e46-a761-f999d155a226/BookmarkedComcast10K.pdf)
------
bobdvb
First I recommend looking at the groups on LinkedIn, please don't dive in
there and ask stupid questions, but read and perhaps ask a well placed
question. Give context and you'll find the experts there mostly willing to
help.
There are different types of cable companies, but things you need to know are:
1) Coax costs more than fiber optics You might think this is a stupid
statement but when you are rolling out over a wide area you will find this.
Look at GPON technology, even small community cable companies in Spain are
using this advanced technology. 2) You either use digital TV or IPTV
technology to deliver the channels. Digital TV (like DVB-C), will allow you to
use a lot of legacy technology but it will leave you stuck in a legacy
quickly. IPTV will require using all new hardware but that hardware may be
cheaper to invest. 3) TV networks often need heavy constraints on content
security (encryption and DRM), don't think that you can change the world, the
Hollywood/MLB/NFL/NHL/Premier League lawyers won't budge and even the TV
networks have to bow to the rights holders. If you don't have security built
in then you will fail to get content, poor security will result in you having
to do a major swap out which could bankrupt you. 3) IPTV should be multicast
in order to reduce the costs of delivery on the network. 4) You will need a
_big_ internet connection. 5) Employ some people who know what they are doing
already, there are lots of semi-retired engineers who can help you achieve
what you want and they needn't cost you the earth. Again, check LinkedIn for
this.
------
rdl
If I were doing this, it would be a high-quality IPTV (VOD, streaming) and
customized network configuration for hotels. i.e. I want my 2000 room
conference hotel to let people have ethernet ports in room and in attached
conference center booth on effectively the same VLAN at least. I'd also like
to offer 30-50Mbps down and 10-20Mbps up to hotel guests.
You'd have a lot easier time going after LodgeNet, etc., with far lower
engineering costs, and still have a chance of doing innovative licensing, than
as a cable company doing residential service. After that, you can expand to
IPTV for public exhibition (bars, etc.). Maybe partner with someone like
Sirius who does radio for those environments and offer a video and vod
service.
Several orders of magnitude less capex, a much smaller minimum feasible size
(you could be profitable on ~20 big city hotels, I think), easier licensing,
and far less regulation (at the local government level).
------
FfejL
You would need to start by raising a large amount of capital. Tens of
millions, if not hundreds.
Now, you have two choices. "Easiest" is buying an existing, up and running
cable company. There are quite a few:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cable_television_compan...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cable_television_companies#Detailed_list),
and if you've got a hundred million or two in cash, I'd bet you can find a
seller.
Much, much harder is finding at least one municipality willing to give you
franchise rights. That's going to take a lot of time and a lot of lawyers.
Franchise rights aren't cheap, and generally require an "OK" from a city
council. Once you've got that, you'll can start running cables. Even more
time, and plenty of that capital. Figure on a couple of years to get to the
point of actually being able sign up your first customer.
------
tedchs
Cable companies are beholden to the content providers, who have contracts that
say if $CABLECO wants to carry channel X, they also need to carry e.g. these 5
other channels.
However... if you want to start a cable company... the easiest way to make a
million dollars is to first start with a billion dollars.
~~~
jayzalowitz
I appreciate that, I really do, but I would find it hard to believe some of
the smaller cable companies wouldnt be at least in part willing to play ball
if I am willing to pay them more than they are used to.
Also, the easiest way to make a million dollars is by doing what you love,
nobody ever said losing 999m is easy.
~~~
PeterisP
The current smaller cable companies have strict agreements on what packages,
what distribution channels and for what time they have licenced their
channels. If they have a licence to transmit HBO over their cable network,
they most likely are not allowed to transmit HBO over public networks (i.e.,
Internet). If they have a licence to include a sports channel in their basic
package, they most likely are not allowed to take it out of the basic pack and
offer it a-la-carte.
All the service terms are detailed before they get the channels, and if you
convince them to really change their mind, then they can (try to) negotiate
these new rights for their next content term, which comes up every two-three
years.
------
eduardordm
After reading your blog, I just asked a friend who is a cable company director
(and one of the owners) how you could do that, the answer:
Build a cable company (there is local regulation about how that's done, you
are not creating a 'new' thing, cities and states might already have
guidelines and/or legislation on that subject - and the tech is already there)
Sometimes that's not possible, because those services are state regulated that
the spots are auctioned every zillion of years. A mile of cable coverage can
cost more than 10k USD and it's not guaranteed that you will make any sales on
that specific mile.
A single company usually owns many channels, they want to sell them all to you
(based on your subscription numbers) those prices change based on your
performance. You need to invest money to receive their signal, so it's usually
better to receive the 'whole package' they are offering anyways. This is more
or less how it works.
Our take on this (over a beer):
A pay-per-hour-view cable company. Using your alien negotiation skills you
will convince all companies to give you all the channels and you will log what
viewers are watching. You will charge viewers based on how much they watched.
Prices would vary per channel and every ad watched would generate a 'credit'.
You and the channel would split the revenues.
------
hdra
not that i have any experience starting a company, but wouldn't it better for
you to find a job at a cable company for a time and get to know the industry
first? i don't know much about cable tv industry, but it seems to rely quite a
bit on connections..
~~~
pixl97
This. It would be better for the author to understand the legal requirements
and the legal history of cable TV. The technical side is only a small part of
the equation here. He would be dealing with regulations at local, state,
national, and international levels.
<http://www.fcc.gov/guides/regulation-cable-tv-rates>
[http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/evolution-cable-
television#s...](http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/evolution-cable-
television#sec7)
So I guess the real answer to his question 'Ask HN: I want to build a cable
company. How would I get started?' is here.
<http://www.fcc.gov/>
------
mesozoic
This is something my friend brings up all the time and every time I have to
explain to him why cable companies operate the way they do.
------
irishcoffee
I've been kicking around and researching this idea for literally years. There
are a few huge roadblocks to success, some of which are mentioned in the
replies here. I'd be interested in talking to you more if you'd like.
~~~
dbz
It might be helpful for you to post a lot of your ideas here. Big cable
companies aren't going to steal them and people here may offer improvements.
------
joezydeco
What is your planned transport mechanism? Do you plan to build out an entire
town with coax cable, amplifiers, and headend? Do you have a franchise
agreement in place with a municipality?
------
robryan
In Australia things have headed towards cable consolidation over time. There
are huge upfront infrastructure costs in cabling, if you are allowed to go out
and cable at all. It might be completely different where you are but here it
seems like current providers are incentivised to maintain a monopoly over
delivery.
If anything you are probably better off trying to build out something over the
internet with many more potential customers now having the bandwidth to take
advantage of.
------
dokem
It seems like it would be pretty hard to get investors to back a cable
company. Cable television is dying and its for the same reasons you are
mentioning. Most people don't watch half the crap they are buying when they
pay for cable. That's why so many young people don't even have cable anymore,
just Netflix, Hulu, or The Pirate Bay.
------
sciurus
As others have said, you likely don't want to build a cable company, and
probably couldn't anyway.
Google for terms like "unbundling" and "a la carte" in relation to cable.
You'll find that some cable operators are in favor of it, but enough cable
operators and content providers oppose it to prevent it from happening.
------
niggler
The traditional firms are actually trying to divest their interests in cable.
For example, a few years ago Verizon sold off landline buildout in some rural
areas to Frontier Communications
~~~
taligent
Yep. The future isn't in cable. It's in FTTH/FTTN like what is happening in
Australia right now.
Which means any opportunity for disruption are going to come from platforms
like Netflix, BBC iPlayer, Vimeo, YouTube, CollegeHumor etc.
------
ChuckMcM
The simplest way to get into this would be to create a Roku channel. You could
design your channel's content around viewer types.
------
raheemm
Combine Netflix with Google Fiber
------
stevewilhelm
Start with a 100 million dollars* ...
* Size of Hulu's A round
------
taligent
Okay so three things.
Firstly I don't think you understand the business you are trying to disrupt.
YOU may not watch particular channels e.g. Fox but others do and they help to
subsidise the unprofitable channels. So trying to break apart the channels
will be impossible without a deep understanding of the economics of each
individual channel and how that relates to your ability to sustain a profit.
Secondly it is widely rumored that Apple will be building a TV that offers an
a la carte model. So something to be mindful of given how well their products
sell.
Thirdly if the top two don't faze you then there is the fact that you picked a
problem that is extremely high cost, low margin and with players who seem to
get a kick out of destroying competition through financial and legal means.
But hey by all means give it a try. You learn more by trying and failing than
not trying at all.
------
rorrr
You're asking such a generic question, it means you don't really understand
what you are planning to do.
Is knowledge really your main problem?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Frog Driven Development by spif - davestone
http://24waystostart.com/2010/frog-driven-development/
======
j_baker
"We switched the project from an hourly rate to a fixed fee after seeing that
the costs would be more than we budgeted. This would move some of the risk to
Kev and be the right incentive to have him deliver both a working release and
the source code."
I don't have a lot of experience contracting or being a contractor, but if
it's clear that a project is going over budget, what contractor in their right
mind would agree to a fixed fee contract? It sounds like that would be a
situation with no upside for the contractor. Am I wrong about this?
------
vog
Note that the story of the frog and the boiling pot is an urban legend.
Apart from that, I like the analogy.
~~~
spif
I thought about mentioning that it's debatable whether or not it's an urban
legend but decided the analogy would hold in anycase.
If you can stomach frog torture then here's some more background:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog>
~~~
narag
Time ago, I worked in a project where the customer's boss had a colorful
version of the frog boiling story. He said that if you wake up, look yourself
in the mirror and see four balls, you're not Superman, but someone is f __*ing
you.
I believe the basic error is not recognizing the project as an integration
task. There are many systems that fit nicely into some existing mature
framework. There are others that require an additional effort to make two
pieces of software work together, two pieces of software that weren't meant to
play together in the first place.
A programmer that's able to do this kind of work needs a very wide knowledge,
specific experience and being very stubborn. Outsourcing this work is, now you
know, risky. But it's not just that. If you're working now with people in-
house, I assume you're seeing that little quirks take more time than
functionality development.
~~~
wallflower
Having done a fair bit of integration work, I refer to the US Healthcare bills
as an IT industry stimulus (integrating hundreds of HMOs / you gotta be
kidding)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hash functions and block ciphers - cgs1019
http://burtleburtle.net/bob/hash/
======
tptacek
I like a lot of what Bob Jenkins writes, and I think(?) I may still be using
his hash table library as my hash_t in my C code, but I still wouldn't use
anything he designed in place of SHA256 or AES; so, just that word of caution.
~~~
wladimir
That's appropriate, because hashing for hash tables has entirely different
requirements than cryptographic hashing.
For a hash table you want a function that evaluates really fast, is short, but
produces as little collisions as possible given that constraint.
A cryptographic hash can be slower and have more steps, but it should be
extremely hard to find a plaintext with a pre-defined hash value, or produce
collisions, or one of the many other threat scenarios.
------
brugidou
i think it's worth pointing out the new murmurhash 3 for lookup table hashing,
it has gone a long way and is supposed to be _really_ fast:
<http://code.google.com/p/smhasher/>
The author of murmurhash actually based their work on Bob Jenkin's trying to
make it speedier, and developed a nice hash test suite.
------
bajsejohannes
> Also, % can be extremely slow (230 times slower than addition on a Sparc).
This is surprising. For comparison, I did a test on my Intel Core 2 Duo.
Modulo turned out to be about 8.5 times slower than addition. A lot better
than Sparc, but it might still be to slow for certain applications.
------
chanux
Doesn't load for me.
Google cache here :
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?client=ubuntu&#...</a>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Darpa challenge offers public $100,000 for small unmanned aircraft - coondoggie
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/darpa-challenge-offers-public-100000-small-un
======
chrisbennet
It would be fun to develop but they are offering less than a years pay. Why
would I (or any engineer) spend a year of development (say) on the off chance
I _might_ get paid? Did I miss something in the article?
~~~
bartonfink
They want hardware, too, so you have to pay more than an opportunity cost up
front. They mention that the winner will get to work with a manufacturer to
produce more prototypes, but it's hard to put a monetary value on that without
more details.
Seriously, anyone with the expertise and desire to do this sort of thing on
their own is already doing it and getting paid more than $100k to do so.
------
chrisbennet
It doesn't even look like you get any sort of royalties - you just have the
"opportunity" to help some defense contractor develop it further so _they_ can
make the money from your idea/work.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Uninstall QuickTime for Windows: Apple will not patch its security bugs - LukeB_UK
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/14/uninstall_quicktime_for_windows/
======
jarnix
They should trigger an alert if it's possible within the software. I have
something called "Apple Software Update" on my PC, it could be used to display
an alert or even ask the user to remove Quicktime automatically...
------
ijk
This is a major issue for media production. Many toolchains depend on
Quicktime. Premiere and AfterEffects just got a lot less useful on Windows.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Travis CI Security Advisory: Secured Environment Variables - edmorley
https://blog.travis-ci.com/2017-05-08-security-advisory
======
mintplant
> As this fix runs in Ruby, it results in larger memory overhead. To address
> this, we are working on an executable binary that will be installed as part
> of the build-image. Work on this is expected to be complete by the end of
> the week.
Run it through sed?
~~~
jacques_chester
We hit this in Cloud Foundry Buildpacks, where all the builds and logs are
completely public[0].
The team wrote and added Concourse-Filter[1]. You stream logs through it. It
compares what's going past to current environment variables. Anytime something
goes past that looks like one of the environment variables, it blanks it out.
You can set a whitelist for things you're not fussed about.
Disclosure: I have twice worked on Buildpacks on behalf of Pivotal.
[0] [https://buildpacks.ci.cf-app.com/](https://buildpacks.ci.cf-app.com/)
[1] [https://github.com/pivotal-cf-experimental/concourse-
filter](https://github.com/pivotal-cf-experimental/concourse-filter)
------
0x0
When I submitted a pull request to a random open source project, I was
surprised to see a travis build kick off immediately.
Is there a chance for rogue pull requests to contain (build) code that dumps
out travis environment secrets? I didn't explore this but obviously the code
is being built by scripts that are part of the commit.
~~~
roidrage
That wouldn't be possible, and that's independent of the security issue we've
disclosed in the post.
For pull requests Travis CI has long had security measures in place to prevent
this scenario from happening: [https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/pull-
requests#Pull-Requests-...](https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/pull-
requests#Pull-Requests-and-Security-Restrictions)
~~~
tehlike
Doesnt this still make it potentially available in case some
malicious/unmalicious coder leaves some console debugging out?
~~~
nothrabannosir
Only if you merge it in. The point is the secure environment variables are not
available at all in the fork build. The bash oneliner they show is to help you
run scripts which won't crash if they don't have those env vars available, not
to "hide them" by running a test script which doesn't use them.
~~~
tehlike
I know many instances where code reviews didnt catch log statement in huge
binaries.
~~~
nothrabannosir
Right, but now you're in the "review of a PR didn't catch malicious code"
boat. At which point, you've got bigger problems than leaking env vars in your
CI.
Not to dismiss it---it's just a different point.
------
arekkas
Did they bother to notify the repositories affected by this? Could not find
anything.
~~~
mattcoles
> We have been in close communications with GitHub since we began working on
> this incident, and have shared impacted tokens with GitHub for their
> records. GitHub will revoke token access for the affected tokens and will
> contact token owners to notify them. Both Travis CI and GitHub recommend
> affected owners revoke their own access tokens and create new tokens
> immediately.
Seems like both Github and Travis did.
------
lawnchair_larry
Secrets in environment variables is such a bad security anti-pattern, and it
seems to be getting more popular.
~~~
phalangion
What is a better pattern?
~~~
jacques_chester
Secrets or credential management is hard, but the first step is to centralise.
Many folk use Vault. There's also Knox, KeyWhiz and I forget some others. I've
been a secrets-management product team (CredHub) for several months now.
We've looked at different ways of shuttling secrets but really, it's going to
be specific to the context. For example, one job our software does is to hand
credentials to a trusted BOSH director during deployments. That's basically
done at this point and works very nicely from an operator perspective.
But then when we look at handing secrets to applications, or getting secrets
to CI, it's a bit trickier.
We use Concourse a lot and for Concourse the next major track of work centres
entirely around creating a secrets-management layer that backs onto secret-
management systems.
Disclosure: At the moment I work on CredHub on behalf of Pivotal.
~~~
dogecoinbase
_Secrets or credential management is hard, but the first step is to
centralise._
Ah yes, the "all eggs, one basket" approach to secret management. This is the
correct approach, if you are trying to sell a platform -- gets you lock-in,
and if you fail to keep secrets secure, you were going to blow up anyways, so
the business risk management dictates that you should shoot for the moon and
risk your client's data in the hopes of getting traction.
~~~
jacques_chester
That's definitely one way of looking at it.
Another view is that:
1\. You can't invest in heavily defending scattered resources.
2\. Individual teams are not all experts in secret management.
Pivotal started CredHub (it's now in the Cloud Foundry Incubation process)
partly because of client requests and partly because of the problems we and
our fellow Cloud Foundry Foundation members have encountered. There are
literally _thousands_ of secrets and credentials scattered across dozens of
teams, including hundreds of high-risk operational secrets.
We have had multiple unintentional leakages, usually git. It's so easy that we
now have tools to watch commits and checkouts for secret-like patterns. The
same tools constantly comb our repositories for possible secrets as well.
Development teams should not need to care. Operators should not need to have
to hand-manage thousands of secrets. There should be a safe, sane, central,
highly assured place or places to keep your secrets.
------
andrewvc
While I love travis for what it is, this is a foreseeable result here.
At the very least they need to add a failsafe that checks all outgoing logs
for any secure tokens and replaces them with ' __* ' or something.
If you sign up to play a game of whack-a-mole you will lose eventually.
~~~
tehlike
What if the token was encrypted or altered in a way simple find replace
wouldnt work?
~~~
ReverseCold
Even just encoding it differently (base64, bin, hex, etc) would work against
that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Google+ Ripples brings something interesting to the table - Nemmie
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/GoogleRipplesBringsSomethingInterestingToTheTable.aspx
======
localhost3000
I don't buy that normal people care about analytics and stats and 'animating
how their post moves around the internet' - might be cool for us geeks, or the
marketers might find it useful, but for the ultimate success or failure of g+
I'm betting this feature will be entirely irrelevant. Twitter shouldn't waste
their time worrying about this.
~~~
PerryCox
I couldn't agree more. Also I would like to add that most people's post don't
get many reshares which mean this feature is completely useless for their
post.
~~~
johngunderman
I get the feeling that the Ripples feature isn't designed for the average
consumer. It's aimed at the marketing crowd. They can easily find out who the
big "share hubs" are, and leverage that to potentially help promote their
product or stay in contact with their community.
------
eegilbert
This is a project by Fernanda Viégas and Martin Wattenberg (at least, that's
what I've heard). You can see some of their other work at <http://hint.fm>.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Show HN: Modern Editor – text editor optimized for Windows 10 - quanglam2807
https://github.com/modern-editor/modern-editor
======
quanglam2807
I started this project about 2 weeks ago. It's built on ReactJS + WinJS +
WinRT APIs: no Electron, light-weight, optimized for Windows 10 and works on
PCs, tablets and mobiles. My plan is to make it an alternative for traditional
desktop text editors like Atom or VS Code on Surface or Lumia 950's Continuum.
Hope you guys like it and give me some feedback.
------
mrmondo
What makes it modern and optimised?
It just looks like a text editor with overly flat, square design which is
synonymous with Microsoft's current windows themes?
~~~
quanglam2807
Hi. Actually, I have the same feeling with you about Microsoft design
language: it's too flat and quite boring compared to Material Design. But it
also has some advantages: the three-point button allows users to expand the
menu and see the description of each icon button; it works better for mouse
and has better performance.
About the project, I build Modern Editor on Universal Windows Platform
([https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/apps/dn8946...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/apps/dn894631.aspx#introduction)), which is a replacement
for traditional desktop platform. Therefore, the app doesn't use NW.js or
Electron: much more lighter (2 MB at the moment compared to more than 30 MB of
Electron) and all the APIs are called directly through WinRT (aka. more
native), can work on phones + Continuum, PCs, tablets, IOT or even Xbox.
I hope this will answer your question.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Show HN: How early can you retire if you move to another place? - pieterhg
http://nomadlist.com/fire?
======
godot
Does the "Use cost of living for a family" checkbox include kids? If so, how
many?
------
keiferski
Nice idea but the data is extremely inaccurate. It costs vastly more than $775
per month to live in Albuquerque, for example. Maybe if that only included the
cost of a studio apartment in the suburbs.
~~~
herbst
I used nomadlist a lot but the used data sources and actual presented cost
data is sometimes very questionable.
I have a rather simple livestyle and had double or half of the nomadlist costs
before.
In general comparing gives a good idea tho.
------
udfalkso
Neat idea.
Issue: After I submit the form I see all my selected options in the url, but
the form is reset to initial conditions and the results below do not reflect
my adjustments.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Winamp 6, due out in 2019, aims to whip more llama ass - Tomte
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/10/winamp-set-to-release-entirely-new-version-next-year/
======
devwastaken
I used to enjoy Spotify until their mobile app stopped letting me play
specific songs from my playlists unless I got premium. I don't want their
poorly sorted suggested songs, I want the songs I want.
There's a ton of music on YouTube and SoundCloud, I wonder if it's within
their TOS to index the url's of that and just have them play the videos using
the supported iframe. Wouldn't block ads but it would on a browser with
adblock.
------
tracker1
I hope that they also start working on the Android app again, it was imho the
best music/podcast app around.
Cross-platform implementations would be really nice as well.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Principle of Least Astonishment - kentbrew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment
======
dang
Earlier discussion (earlier Wiki too):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22794771](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22794771)
Repeats are fine after a year or so but we need more astonishment before then
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)).
------
ridaj
This is an interesting principle which I understand the power of but feel is
sometimes detrimental because it treats all surprises are equally bad.
Surprises can also be delightful. (It might be arguable that delight even
_requires_ surprise.)
That is perhaps the most extreme counterexample, but the point here is that we
should treat very differently things that are "surprising, but easily
recoverable" from things that are "surprising, and disorienting", "surprising,
and makes you want to flip tables", or "surprising, and life-threatening".
Taken to an extreme, this principle leads you to stagnant designs, because
you're afraid of modest innovations giving users a mild surprise. Or, your
product fundamentally doesn't quite work the way most users expect it to work,
so in order to avoid giving users a surprise, you do cosmetic things to paper
over it...
Tldr: use at your own risk and remember you're at the wheel, not your
principles
~~~
lostcolony
"If a necessary feature has a high astonishment factor, it _MAY_ be necessary
to redesign the feature" \- emphasis added.
But, they're related, as you note. This is specifically referencing surprise
in the sense of "What, no, that was not what I intended to do!", not in "Ha!
That was exactly what I wanted to do; I can't believe it was that easy!"
The reality is that latter is very, very rare in UI/UX (more commonly,
successful actions don't even register to the user, even if it's slightly
novel; it 'just works'). The former...very common, and a thing to avoid.
------
allard
How many times in a day are you unpleasantly astonished by something made out
of bits? (I'm working around one with a set screw now.)
------
seph-reed
Seems pretty similar to KiSS (Keep it Simple Stupid)
~~~
kmill
I can see the similarity, though Git seems like an interesting differentiating
example. Technically, it is extremely simple. A commit is a file tree with
content stored in blobs along with a reference to the previous commit. A
branch is the id of the blob containing the commit. Yet, it is frequently
astonishing. The layers of porcelain over the plumbing are testament to the
fact that the underlying model does not map to how you expect to work with a
version control system, whether that's due to previous experience to due to an
"impedance mismatch" with the way people actually work.
Don't get me wrong, I happily use Git since I'm willing to bend my will to the
machine in this way. It does realize its promise.
A great example that's in the intersection of both is copy/cut/paste. That was
the result of a user study for the Alto, I believe, watching real copyeditors
doing their work. And it's technically straightforward.
In contrast, the Emacs kill ring and undo system, together, trip me up even
after years of use. They are technically elegant, but together create some
astonishing situations. Like Git, all are easily fixable, yet still there is
some friction.
The PoLA, in its best form, seems to me to be about whether a user's will can
be realized in as direct a way as possible. This might, potentially, have a
very complicated implementation.
~~~
loopz
Git, when explained properly, should be intuitive. This follows the Principle.
The lack of explanation, or the complexity that arise in real life, may be
problematic. If git has problems in this area, it is because of lack of proper
communication.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Computer science as a lost art (2015) - jxub
http://rubyhacker.com/blog2/20150917.html
======
wrs
Well stated.
I recently went through (the recordings of) MIT’s intro course for electrical
engineers, in which somewhere the professor says students may wonder why they
have to do all this calculus and learn FET models and so on — in real life
don’t you just wire chips together? And he points out that MIT degrees are for
the people who _make_ the chips.
~~~
stcredzero
_he points out that MIT degrees are for the people who make the chips._
You never know when background knowledge and first principles might come in
handy. One of my favorite YouTuber practical engineers has this story about
going on a boat trip. The new coffee maker on board was freaked out by the
noise from the inverter and kept shutting itself off. A total disaster! There
would be no coffee the whole trip. So he turned on the blender while making
the coffee, and the coffee maker started working. How did he know? He knew
what kind of motor was in the blender, and knew its windings would increase
the inductance of the circuit the kitchen appliances, filtering out the higher
frequencies put out by the cheap inverter.
This guy isn't an electrician. ("Elekchicken") His day job is just to put
pieces of "industrial lego" together -- just like how so many programmer jobs
now are mainly about gluing libraries together. But he never shies away from
knowledge of first principles, and he demonstrates all the time why such
knowledge is valuable.
~~~
leetbulb
I'm intrigued. What channel? I greatly appreciate this type of intuition /
problem solving. AvE is one of my favorite.
~~~
stcredzero
AvE
~~~
leetbulb
Ah, must have missed that video :P Thanks!
------
learc83
I've worked for years as a self-taught developer before going back to get my
CS degree, I've taught at a bootcamp, and I've hired bootcamp graduates.
Bootcamps can be valuable, but they are in no way comparable to a 4 year
degree from a decent CS program. The top performing bootcamps are either
functioning as an extended job interview that you have to pay for, or they are
very good at selecting experienced students who only need a 12 week course to
be ready to be productive developers. In my opinion, the reason we've seen
bootcamps close or fail to expand is that there is a limited supply of these
types of students.
For the vast majority of people a 12 week course, no matter how intensive, is
a good introduction, but a lot of training is still necessary to be useful. If
you are prepared to invest in that training, they can be great hires. However,
you need to be aware that it's likely going to be months before you get real
productive work without hand-holding. It takes most people a lot longer than
12 weeks to be comfortable with the basics of moving up and down through
levels of abstraction.
~~~
syndacks
I'm a self-taught web dev, and I want to further my CS education but can't go
back to school for various reasons.
I've seen various syllabi eg teachyourselfcs.com and though they seem legit
(and I've dabbled is some courses) I don't quite see the application/direct
benefit professionally.
Let me phrase in another way; when I got started it was easy to see why I
needed to learn front-end and back-end to make a web app (for a CRUD job). Now
I want to go further, but where?
I think it would be helpful to see what jobs I could get by furthering my CS
fundamentals, and not just "Senior Software Engineer".
So, as someone with your unique perspective, what do you recommend? Should I
really slog through ye olde CS curriculum in hopes that one day I'll be able
to apply some of it? Can you recommend another approach?
Again, put another way, some of these "top performing bootcamps" sharpen your
React skills and whiteboarding skills, which have a career/market value. But
they don't appeal to me because they don't seem academically/CS focused.
I hope this duality/constraint came across.
Any guidance appreciated.
~~~
arcsin
Knowing CS allows you to build unique solutions from first principles. In
cases where you're tied to applying solutions that have already been decided
there will be less opportunity to use your CS knowledge. I think the majority
of the time for most jobs you're just applying solutions, so it's much clearer
how this would benefit you professionally.
Depending on the kind of work you do, the minority of the time where it would
be beneficial to know CS might have a big impact both on the product and your
reputation in the company. This could help you move up to higher, better paid
positions, but it also might not. Teaching yourself CS is a big time
investment and if you just want to maximize your salary there's probably
better ways to do it.
I think it's really only worth it if on some level you enjoy it and find it
interesting. You can seek out jobs where they use more CS, but again this
doesn't guarantee you'll advance professionally. But if you're the type of
person who enjoys programming as a creative activity, I think CS can be very
rewarding because it opens you up to what's possible.
------
lostcolony
I was involved in the hiring and filling of > 50 developer positions at a
company, while being a tech lead.
We tried hiring a few people with just bootcamps. Only a few (so hardly a
representative sample), but none of them worked out. As soon as they had to
try something even the slightest bit different than what they'd done in the
bootcamp they were lost. There were people with degrees in unrelated fields
who then did a bootcamp who were good, and almost all of the CS/CE/EE people
we hired were good.
I'm not saying this is always the case, but the two years of CS fundamentals
seem to be valuable, AND the two years of unrelated core classes seem to be
valuable. It might just be how it forces you to engage with and learn things
you don't care about (because there will be times in any job you have to do
that), or the people skills of having to learn to deal with professors and
other students, or the pattern of constant learning and adapting it ingrains
upon you, or something else entirely, but per the link, I don't think a
bootcamp should ever be viewed as sufficient preparation for a career in
development. It's fine in tandem with other things, but it's extremely
limiting on its own.
~~~
sircastor
For a counter example, I'll say that we've got 3 Bootcamp graduates on our
team at work and they've all been very good. They've all moved into languages
beyond what they learned in their courses. One has become a major platform
contributor and has been a driving force in decisions being made. Another has
been working with hardware and system deployment. They're all very driven,
I've been quite impressed.
Now the caveat to my statements there are that all three already had degrees,
in disparate fields unrelated to CS/CE. It's an example of capable individuals
being able to learn practical skills in anything.
~~~
wongma
Those aren't really counterexamples. They corroborate this finding by the OP:
>There were people with degrees in unrelated fields who then did a bootcamp
who were good
------
amorphous
What I miss in those kinds of discussions are the intangible benefits of
having studied a subject in depth to acquire a degree. The person that entered
university is different from the one that came out of it. The way to tackle
problems, to think scientifically, the ability to see the broader picture are
some of the advantages of good education that are easy to dismiss since they
are not immediately visible.
There has been a similar thread on HN where someone with a bunch of degrees
said: "I haven't used anything from my studies in my work". But this person
might be blind to the fact how the education shaped her mind. Understanding
goes beyond mere knowledge.
~~~
Ntrails
> There has been a similar thread on HN where someone with a bunch of degrees
> said: "I haven't used anything from my studies in my work". But this person
> might be blind to the fact how the education shaped her mind.
I tried to read thought my uni notes on metric spaces a couple of years ago. I
don't even understand them anymore. Littered with idiot comments like
"obviously -> " despite it being nothing of the sort.
University me was a douchebag. :(
~~~
aaron_m04
I'm guessing you don't use metric spaces in your day to day work. Take a look
at notes from a subject you are actively using, and I think much of it would
be obvious.
------
yontherubicon
So, for the dogshed builders among us, what might be the recommended pathway
to learn some architecture--beyond the obvious academic options?
I'm sure this has been covered to death on HN already, but if anyone has a
link bookmarked and feels like sharing?
~~~
avmich
Read carefully "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" (e.g.
online for free), preferably do exercises. You'll get a solid start.
~~~
pjc50
SICP is a Lisp textbook. This will be controversial, but I think it has little
application outside of the Lisp world, however much it is venerated.
~~~
stutonk
Yeah, it only teaches you about term rewriting, boolean logic, iteration vs.
recursion, algorithm complexity, higher-order functions, data structure
design, closures, generics, statefulness, environments, mutability,
concurrency, stream processing, modularity, interpreter design and
implementaion, lazy evaluation, nondeterminism, logic programming (i.e.
search/constraint), low level computer architecture, memory models, and the
design and implementation of virtual machines, garbage collectors, and
compilers. Just a total waste of time unless you're doing Lisp.
------
stcredzero
_It means that a person can get the little things done while knowing very
little. But it also means that this person probably will never learn enough to
get the big things done._
_To be honest, I get secretly frustrated with the lower-level people who now
exist in giant hordes. (I rarely tell anyone that.) To me, they are like
people who have decided to learn 5% of their field in order to get a few
things done, have some fun, and make a living._
_These people use tools to create little applications for everyday use. But
remember: The tools themselves are also software. But they are a level of
software far beyond anything these people could dream of creating. They use
languages, editors, compilers, and operating systems; but they don 't have the
first clue about how to create any of these things or even how they really
work._
The most disturbing thing to me, based on interviews I've conducted, is that
this seems to include some large fraction of people graduating with a Computer
Science degree from supposedly top tier schools with high GPAs that supposedly
mean something.
_If you want to make really interesting exciting things that have never
existed before, if you want to make a tiny little difference in the industry
and change the world just a little bit, then you do need that degree. If you
want to make the tools and libraries that the lower-level people use, you do
need that degree._
The tools and libraries aren't sentient AI yet. If you want to use the tools
and libraries at a high level, then you really need to have some knowledge
about how they work. The disturbing thing I might be seeing, is that something
like 40% of graduates from even good schools have that Computer Science
degree, yet really only have that 5% knowledge, yet have been led to think
that they know more.
~~~
jacoblambda
I think the mistake a lot of people make is the split between you need a
degree and degrees are worthless. Degrees are largely what you make out of
them.
I have been going through a bachelors of computer engineering and the
curriculum/professors make every effort to provide as much value as possible
yet most students do just enough work to get the grade they want in the class.
In this same vein, students so often take the required courses, look for the
easiest (instead of the best) teachers, and try to pick the easiest, lowest
effort classes out of the in major classes they can choose between (tech
electives) rather than focusing on building a useful base of knowledge for
their future careers. Many students intentionally avoid useful classes because
they are hard and don't want to risk damaging their precious GPA. I find this
accounts for a lot of the grads with very high GPAs but with fairly limited
knowledge outside of the basics. This ends up with students putting the cart
before the horse by focusing on how to be best suited for getting a job rather
than how to be well prepared for it.
The true value of a CS/ECE degree comes from the classes that you take not the
degree itself. Much of that material (particularly the fringe optional
courses) can be very difficult to grasp on your own and having a professor
dedicated to assisting in your understanding of that material is extremely
valuable.
~~~
stcredzero
_Degrees are largely what you make out of them._
Agreed. I think a lot of people take CS to get a GPA, network, get a good list
of impressive sounding internships, and work with buzzword-compliant
libraries.
------
fru311
I would suggest that if someone isn't interested in technical fundamentals,
they should consider a degree in human computer interaction and design. The
things you can create with shallow technical knowledge continue to become more
commoditized, but understanding problems that people have and designing a
solution that makes them happy is a good way to create value.
------
ereyes01
We've reached an era where the average worker's serviceable time long outlives
the competitive edge they've gained from their education/training in their
formative years. The accelerating pace of economic and technological change is
faster than ever, and this condition is unprecedented in human history.
I've become more and more convinced that this is the defining problem of our
times- we're becoming victims of our own success. The author of this post
feels like a dinosaur, and I would bet that many young people in our field who
give in to their natural instincts and specialize in something will emerge on
the other end feeling the same, at a much younger age than the author, and
maybe unable to find equal or better work than before.
In other professions, the difference is more stark, and I think this is a
major catalyst for the political/populist zeitgeist of the day. Entire
industries have disappeared in a historical blink of an eye, and their former
struggling workers are up in arms fighting powerful forces of nature trying to
turn back the clock and stay relevant / valuable.
Bringing this back to CS, it's interesting to use this lens to determine
whether the degree is worth pursuing anymore. On the one hand, it's
fundamental and it encompasses the building blocks of how computers work and
what they can do. On the other hand, programming techniques haven't changed
very much and are quickly becoming commoditized and more accessible. As the
author notes, it's true that you don't need to know as much as you used to, to
build a useful program anymore. Like it or not, that's a fact, and economic
forces are exploiting this more and more.
I think our human-being wiring is optimized to learn when young, and then
"grow up" and become efficient at repeatedly applying our skills to obtain the
expected outcome. Increasingly, I feel like the winning (or at least a better)
strategy is to stay "young" as much as possible, since the chance you will
need to reinvent yourself seems to only rise. This sounds great when you're
_actually_ young, but as time passes you get worse and worse at it, despite
needing to remain "young" and malleable, and despite the mounting competition
from actual young people.
So given all this, saying people "need" a CS degree seems like punching and
kicking at giant waves you'll never beat. And I say this as someone who deeply
loves both CS and academia. Stay "young" as best you can and try to keep
riding the next wave you can find.
~~~
flukus
Disclaimer: My only formal training in this field was TAFE in Australia, which
involved an 18 month course and is roughly analogous to a trade school or
community college, before that I was a high school drop out.
> We've reached an era where the average worker's serviceable time long
> outlives the competitive edge they've gained from their education/training
> in their formative years. The accelerating pace of economic and
> technological change is faster than ever, and this condition is
> unprecedented in human history.
I think when change is this fast understanding the basic building blocks is
more important than ever. These don't change quickly, some haven't changed
since the industry was born. So much technological change is just reinventing
concepts that have existed for decades and once you realize you're staring at
an old concept in a new package keeping up is much easier.
The question then is what educational format teaches these fundamentals the
best. For some of them it probably is a computer science course but for others
it might not be. One of the best classes I had was building our own database
(TAFE was pretty hands on) and from what I've seen this was a lot better than
how it's taught in many universities. We had to start at the file level and
think through the various steps to make a half decent database, like what is
required to handle index lookups efficiently, how to retrieve records in
order, etc. It gives you a much more intuitive grasp of what steps a DBMS has
to go through on your behalf. In my first real job after graduating I had to
explain to someone with a CS degree why storing dates as strings was
inefficient and making our monthly billing took half a day to generate instead
of half a second.
Foundational knowledge is important but the where/when and how we obtain this
knowledge could do with a shake up, you can produce a lot of valuable output
without an upfront 3-4 year investment, but it doesn't seem like there are a
lot of opportunities to gain it after becoming a full time worker.
------
spraak
> If you want to make really interesting exciting things that have never
> existed before, if you want to make a tiny little difference in the industry
> and change the world just a little bit, then you do need that degree. If you
> want to make the tools and libraries that the lower-level people use, you do
> need that degree.
I wonder if the author considers Node.js to be really interesting and exciting
and never existed before. Ryan Dahl doesn't have a CS degree (but does have a
mathematics degree).
Another (pretty cliché) example: Bill Gates never finished his degree and went
on to create many great, exciting and interesting things.
~~~
chrisco255
I think exceptional genius combined with exceptional work ethic can overcome
any shortage of credentials or education, period. But for the great majority
of folks, a formal CS education will give you a great advantage over a
bootcamp graduate, or even a self-taught hacker. The thing is, if you're smart
enough and contrarian enough, you're not going to listen to anyone's advice on
this topic anyways...so those of you who do care what other people think, I
think it's best to get a CS degree. Boot camp just doesn't cover enough bases.
It's important to learn fundamentals. The fundamentals change much less often
than languages or frameworks or platforms.
------
User23
Germane meditations from the pioneer of kvetching about the standard
substandard approach to programming:
[https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD103...](https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html)
------
white-flame
Bootcamp vs CS degree really has to do with what sort of work you want to do,
which is a missing variable in this article.
There's plenty of programming work out there that doesn't require any deep
understanding of CS. You're not going to be creating algorithms when using
existing frameworks to write yet another web thing, phone app, or internal
businessy database-based system.
A bootcamp can get you started doing practical things. Yes, you won't have
deep knowledge, but really you don't _need_ deep knowledge for most employable
work. Code doesn't need to be hyper-optimized at the scale you're working, and
it's easy to learn common pitfalls & best practices from applied practice,
reading, and mentorship.
And I say all this as an oldish fart who understands the chain from designing
bespoke high level language environments down through to transistors. We don't
need to count bytes & clock cycles anymore; people can let the machine & its
provided environment simply work for them and learn the top-level interface.
------
neil_macintyre
> He's a freshman at Kennesaw State right now, but he really struggles with
> the idea of taking two years of classes that he has very little interest in.
If it is just the idea of having to take a load of liberal arts classes that
perturbs your son and not the low level courses like chip design, logic,
algorithms and data structures, calc and stats, one alternative to consider is
to study internationally. English universities, for example, offer a bachelors
in computer science in three years. Unlike a "8- to 16-week full-day immersive
courses that focus solely on technology" they have a curriculum almost exactly
the same a US computer science course minus the 3 English classes, 3 history
and political sciences classes, 2 economic courses and an art course that a
college like Kennesaw has a graduation requirement: Kennesaw State Curriculum
([http://ccse.kennesaw.edu/cs/docs/BSCS_2016-2017.docx](http://ccse.kennesaw.edu/cs/docs/BSCS_2016-2017.docx)).
To compare look at the University of Bristol's
Curriculum:[[https://www.bris.ac.uk/unit-programme-
catalogue/RouteStructu...](https://www.bris.ac.uk/unit-programme-
catalogue/RouteStructure.jsa;jsessionid=55C3E695CF3A9FA6C9333C0391AC0FBE?byCohort=N&cohort=Y&routeLevelCode=1&ayrCode=19%2F20&modeOfStudyCode=Full+Time&programmeCode=4COSC019U)]
I know this is not an option for everybody - many people need to stay close to
home for personal or financial reasons, but is definitely something to look
into. With regards to finances, English university for international students
even with 1 year less of study still cost a lot. However, I am pretty sure
that the course structure is similar at most European universities some of
witch offer really low fees to international students.
~~~
shagie
I wish more programmers took a few writing classes so they would appreciate
how to write an email with the correct punctuation. I've seen far too many
emails where the author didn't appear to understand how to formulate a
complete sentence or understand where to put a paragraph break.
I wish more freelancers took a class in business accounting so they'd have an
idea of how to do it and what a good (or bad) contract looks like... or
understand the value of their time. There are far too many that decide to
become "freelancers" and yet have no idea on how to do the basic business
items that come with being a freelancer.
I wish more programmers took a class that had a public speaking component.
Reading powerpoint slides as a team presentation is boring. The work
environment isn't just "I write code" but also a transferring of knowledge
from one person to the rest of the team.
I wish more programmers took some classes in history, or physical sciences -
things outside the major. I've had more than a water cooler conversations
where a person doesn't understand how the length of the day impacts the
temperature, or is surprised at the similarity of events today and those of
thirty some-odd years ago. This concerns me, not for the skills of work, but
rather the understanding of the world outside of the office.
To these things, English composition, human communication, contemporary
economy, arts and culture, political science and history... oh, those are are
excellent class titles to help fill out those I wish items.
~~~
Nursie
I wish people would understand those things can be picked up before a degree
or outside of a degree.
Going to a university in the UK I was free to study the subject I was
interested in and wanted to understand. I was able to fully immerse.
My schooling prepared me for the rest.
------
tabtab
As soon as higher-level programming languages such as COBOL, Algol, and
FORTRAN came out; many clerks in the mid 1960's onward learned programming
without knowing about the hardware guts or theory. Thus, the layering of
specialties had already begun.
~~~
frostburg
I'm not that sold on this. Programming in ASM isn't really "harder" than
programming in Haskell, it's just slower - it requires discipline, but not the
ability to grasp abstraction that some more modern languages need.
I think that issues like knowing "how do compilers actually work" or "this
thing is actually the halting problem, let's stop" are more relevant than how
removed from latches and memory controllers one is.
~~~
supermdguy
> Programming in ASM isn't really "harder" than programming in Haskell, it's
> just slower - it requires discipline, but not the ability to grasp
> abstraction that some more modern languages need.
Reminds me of this comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17403233](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17403233)
~~~
tabtab
That story reminds me of a guy who made a CRUD application (tracking, reports,
& statistics) out of MS-Excel VBA. I was asked to start supporting it, and did
a lot of similar head scratching. Amateur programming can be worse than no
automation at times.
He wasn't bitter, however; just confused about my assessment about it being
time-consuming to support. I had to explain that typical programmers use
abstractions to make code maintainable and not rely on our ability to read,
well, spaghetti code fast. I've met some programmers quick at deciphering
spaghetti code, but I confessed I wasn't one of them. I used the analogy of
taking a custom-built amateur car with a custom-built engine to a generic
auto-mechanic and expecting them to figure it out as fast as a regular car.
That story seemed to click.
------
Xeronate
College is only one way (albeit a good one) to get a firm grasp of CS. I'd
argue putting in 1000s of hours of work is another.
------
xor1
I know someone currently doing a CS MS so she can get into tech. She is good
at math, so all of those classes are free As for her. She has other people
help with her programming homework assignments, sometimes even having them do
the entire thing for her. I know because she told me this herself, and even
asked me to do some for her. As long as she gets near 100% on homework, it's
nearly impossible to get less than a B in any programming class. She has an
adderall prescription so she can cram for tests, which have way more multiple-
choice questions than should reasonably be expected.
She's currently on her second internship. They're both at employers that don't
screen candidates on actual programming ability (they just looked at GPA,
resume/application, and then a soft interview), and the current one has a
reputation for being a very meh internship, though good resume padding. The
last time I helped her, her code was fine for someone who had just started
learning two years ago, but I don't think she is going to progress to the
point that you'd expect someone with a Master's to be at simply because she
isn't doing her own homework.
I don't have a CS BS or MS, but there have been a few times where I feel like
I need to get one just in case the market tanks again and they become a
significant hiring criteria. But at the same time, I have to wonder just how
many people currently enrolled in MS CS programs throughout the nation are
doing something similar, and devaluing the worth of the degree (on paper, to
potential employers) to the point that some could even look at it negatively.
------
richpimp
I see pros and cons to both sides (4 year university vs boot camp). I have a
CS degree, whereas our front end developer came from a boot camp.
For my part, I have found the underlying theory to be helpful in ways I
couldn't have comprehended while at school. Understanding binary made
understanding octets in IP addresses and subnet masking much easier. Taking a
class that involved programming sorting algorithms by hand in C++ was very
beneficial, even though I have no need to do this in my day to day work.
Learning about logic gates has even been helpful. Basically, I'm better
equipped to have a fundamental understanding of how software and hardware
works, even if it's a very basic understanding. What I lacked coming out of
school, though, was having a clear road map of how to just build something in
a modern stack on day one at a job.
My compatriot is in the opposite boat. He came out of boot camp with a clear
understanding of how to build web applications using Angular. He could hit the
ground running, and did from day one. However, he lacks the underlying theory
that helps to understand how things work. Does he need these things to do his
job? No, but I do believe it makes for a more well-rounded developer to have
this knowledge. Fortunately, he's got a great attitude and aptitude, so he's
been picking these things up as he goes.
I'd rather see something more in the middle, where one can get the theory
coupled with the real-world programming skills. Maybe my CS program is to
blame, and others exist that do a better job of this. Looking back, my senior
"full-stack" project was very limited. I would have benefited from a little
more meat to the project, and also having some more of the ancillary things
taught, such as anything to do with networking in a more practical rather than
academic way.
------
3pt14159
I mostly disagree. Software, like electronic engineering, is about
abstraction, but it differs in a critical way: It's self-modifiable. Kids can
think they're making computer games using little apps, but what they're doing
is more akin to making a map for Starcraft than it is to actually making a
game. If anything I'd argue that getting a CS degree or similar (math,
engineering, philosophy) will arm your mind with the tools it needs to really
compete over the coming decades.
If you want a simple middle class life a bootcamp is perfectly fine. Lots of
people make money writing CSS. There is nothing wrong with it. But I would
never tell a bright youngster that CS degrees (and similar) are a waste.
~~~
BanazirGalbasi
I don't think they were saying CS degrees are a waste at all, in fact I think
the message is exactly the same as yours. Going to a bootcamp teaches you to
use some specific tools and let you make basic projects. Getting a CS degree
lets you learn how those tools work and even how to make better ones if you're
good enough.
------
rb808
Bob Martin has a great talk
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecIWPzGEbFc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecIWPzGEbFc),
which illustrates a lot of history of computers.
He asserts that the number of devs is doubling every 5 years which means that
half the developers have < 5 years experience. The industry has lots much of
its scientific discipline which has to return, or regulations will force more
structure.
Anyway he's a great speaker and this is one of my favorites.
------
projektir
Ugh.
I think what people writing articles like this tend to miss, is that it's much
easier to be super deep in a field when the field is limited and low-entry but
you're already in it. Because there's not really as much going on and there's
not much else to do but learn C or some text editor on a super deep level or
what not. What else are you going to do? Look at the stuff "deep" people are
generally into, it mostly revolves around POSIX some way or another. And
databases, but nobody wants to talk about that.
But today, there are hundreds of languages, a whole bunch of frameworks per
language, various tools, constantly changing standards, etc. The available
landscape is absolutely staggering. If you want to deeply focus, you need to
pick what to deeply focus on, which is a rather tough choice and a
questionable one, because the thing you focused on might become obsolete.
> if you want to make a tiny little difference in the industry and change the
> world just a little bit, then you do need that degree
And what sense does THIS make? Among the people who I know who _do_ deeply get
into some specific CS topic, many are those who do not have degrees, because
they're often people who are not fans of structure and ended up doing what
they want, as opposed to what might be beneficial for career purposes.
This just seems to be heavily misguided elitism.
If you really want to know why the quality of software, and basically
everything else, has gone down, just look at market incentives and you'll find
that to be an utterly boring question.
~~~
Ultimatt
> This just seems to be heavily misguided elitism.
Not really. There is a bit too much meet you at the bottom communism in the
modern ethos of computer science. When you can have measured difficulty and
time to skill in a field isn't it a little odd that we don't have a lot more
measured elitism in computer science? The reality is the hardest most complex
stuff is literally solved and produced by an elite few. All of which could be
taught or learnt but no one gives a shit. Its a bit like magic is slowly dying
from the universe, and the wizzards keep suggesting it might be worth holding
onto. But they then get called out as an elite minority only interested in
furthering their arcane agenda. Whilst everyone else is using the accessible
modern "technology" built from the original magic and cannot fathom why anyone
should give a shit about magic anymore. Wizzards only appeared special to get
a cushy job next to the king in their own tower right? Technology is just as
good as magic, because it was built from magic!!!! So elitist. The problem
comes when the technology fails, or doesn't do something thats needed and
cannot be changed without changing the base magic that the technology started
from. If there are no more wizzards and no more magic, you're never going to
be able to create new base technologies. The _only_ hope is the magic making
technology everyone is currently working on called Machine Learning. Then all
the wizzards can be virtualised and controlled like slaves, even if its
provable ML isn't actually magic, its close enough... we hope.
~~~
projektir
> The reality is the hardest most complex stuff is literally solved and
> produced by an elite few. All of which could be taught or learnt but no one
> gives a shit.
The elite few don't really want anyone joining them, so nobody does. Look at
the state of academia and look at lack of training in jobs. Nobody wants
anyone to be elite, so people don't bother, there's no benefit in it. Your
problem is that you think you're important, that you think the most useful
contribution from a person is what they do personally, but all that does is
just advance, you, personally.
The thing is, the elite are often much more worried about being elite than
about what they're actually doing. Once you see that, you know the incentive
is corrupt. It's a status thing for them. And how dare anyone challenge their
status. That's really all this is. It's hardly about the advancement of
technology, because if it was, those people would be out there teaching, or
trying to address the informational overload, and not looking smug. It's
elitist because it's utterly disregarding most of human experience and
presenting yours as superior, and your entire argument will ultimately derive
from that view and pretty much everything you say after that could be really
anything as long as it supports your idea that you're superior. That's why
elitism is bad, it's destructive to conception of reality.
I know plenty of people who don't look at things as magic but who also don't
consider themselves as some "wizards". Maybe you should try getting off your
high horse and talking to people some and figuring out what it is that they
are doing all day and you'll understand how silly everything you're saying
here is. But as with everything else, it's easier to sit on top than to try to
understand.
Snobbery is all this is, and likely unearned, can't say the association
between perceiving yourself as elite and actually being so is very good at
all.
~~~
throwawayjava
I, for one, am really looking forward to seeing the projektirSolver in next
year's SAT competition and the projektirNET in next year's ILSVRC!
------
NTDF9
I've worked with plenty of competent developers who don't have degrees. Most
crud jobs don't need degrees anymore.
But, any serious business that's going to churn a lot of data, needs fast
pipelines, needs to invent entire new markets or ideas will heavily rely on
people with patience and training in scientific process.
------
michaels9876
Very fun to read and sounds very true. In my experience though, I found no
correlation between programmers with a CS degree and being a good
developer/architect.
I will say that those of us who didn't graduate (including me, I dropped out)
often feel they have something to prove and will work harder.
------
Jarwain
Mirror:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20180731000241/http://rubyhacker...](https://web.archive.org/web/20180731000241/http://rubyhacker.com/blog2/20150917.html)
------
tonyedgecombe
If you require programmers to have a deep understanding of computer science
then you will never have enough programmers. This is good for those people
with the qualifications but not necessarily good for the rest of society which
ends up with an unmet need.
------
jteppinette
I dropped out of a Computer Science program at KSU. It’s been great.
~~~
sus_007
What have you been doing since then ? Are you pursuing self-study ? I'm
curious .
~~~
jteppinette
I am always working on side projects that usually become businesses or lead to
a consulting/full time opportunity. I’m currently working at Apple as a tech
lead.
I worked my entire way through school doing IT (6 months) then software
engineering (2.5 years) before I was offered my first full time by some
coworkers that went to a startup. The full time offer also lined up with my
term as president of my fraternity ending, so it was time to get out.
------
devxpy
> If you want to make really interesting exciting things that have never
> existed before, if you want to make a tiny little difference in the industry
> and change the world just a little bit, then you do need that degree. If you
> want to make the tools and libraries that the lower-level people use, you do
> need that degree
I don't know about you, but I need some solid evidence that you did anything
close to that so I can consider you seriously.
------
ThJ
As a person who never had a degree but whose knowledge goes above and beyond
what 90% of the market needs and well into CS territory, this article insults
me. It's also a painful reminder of similar prejudices in people who are
looking to hire. I often end up doing the kind of basic development the author
talks about and I'm not happy about that.
Why not just take a CS degree? Because I'm a poor fit for the education
system. That's why I dropped out of high school in the first place.
Also, I feel like I've paid my dues already. I've been learning about computer
software (and hardware and electronics) for 27 years. I haven't stopped at
merely what I needed to know to do my job. I have done a lot of self-study. I
routinely roll my own libraries and write embedded code, and I had a patch
submitted to the Linux kernel a few years back. I also design analog and
digital circuits on my spare time.
I feel it's not about having a degree at all, because I'm living, breathing
evidence of that. I've met people with CS degrees who can barely write a line
of code. Maybe they didn't go to a good college. Maybe they did, and it's
possible to pass the exams by cramming (followed by forgetting).
Saying that you can't do advanced stuff without a CS degree is snobbery.
~~~
rayiner
I don't think that's a charitable reading of the article. The author is not
saying that you can't have this knowledge without a degree, he's saying that
few people in the field today have this knowledge, because they don't have the
degree. The two assertions are different: there are things a degree teaches
you; if you have the degree, you probably know them. While you can't judge
whether any given individual has the same knowledge without the degree, you
can:
1) Expect that 1,000 people with the degree will mostly have that knowledge;
2) That 1,000 people without the degree will mostly not have the knowledge.
~~~
white-flame
I disagree strongly with your point #1. "This knowledge" specifically is deep
full-system understanding, as quoted in the article:
> _" They use languages, editors, compilers, and operating systems; but they
> don't have the first clue about how to create any of these things or even
> how they really work."_
And yes, he is asserting that people should get this from a degree:
> _If you want to build doghouses, just pick up some skills with hammer and
> nails, and then go for it. If you want to be an architect who designs and
> builds skyscrapers, then go get a degree in architecture first._
The full depth of applied understanding comes from personal interest &
experience. Whether or not a person with such interest pursues a CS degree is
completely orthogonal.
Plus, these applied low- & mid-level computational practicals have nothing to
do with Computer Science; they are programming, architecture, and engineering.
People generally do not complete CS degrees with any specific imparting of
these 3 facets, unless they use their university time to pursue their own
interests & ambitions in the field. And again, such people can and do pursue
those outside of university, especially in their pre-university age
exploratory years, and on-the-job experience with real systems.
~~~
rayiner
> The full depth of applied understanding comes from personal interest &
> experience. Whether or not a person with such interest pursues a CS degree
> is completely orthogonal.
It's not orthogonal, but rather highly correlated. Combinatorics, graph
theory, computer architecture, etc., will all be part of a university CS
curriculum. Someone who has a CS degree will _probably_ know those things (or
at least recall them after a brief refresher).
~~~
white-flame
Combinatorics and graph theory have zero to do with this practical knowledge.
I'll grant that computer architecture classes introduce some relevant
concepts, but this foundation can be had from anywhere as its matters,
history, and details are widely discussed in the open online as a persistently
current practical concern.
People like the author, with a degree and lots of experience under their belt,
really overestimate what the degree specifically gave them, vs what they
learned through decades of experience as they developed their craft. When it
comes to practical, applied programming and skills of abstraction, informed by
deep knowledge of what goes on under the hood, vanishingly small amounts of
that come from university education.
Again, I will be careful to separate out those who do actual Computer Science
on the job from this practical craft of quality programming. The former is
much more rare, but is a separate field.
------
anfilt
He calls it a rant, but I would say its just being honest.
------
oyebenny
My Alma mater on HN? Weird!
~~~
abhiminator
Curious to know what's weird about KSU showing up on HN. Is it an anomaly?
------
andrewmcwatters
> If you want to make the tools and libraries that the lower-level people use,
> you do need that degree.
No, you need to somehow invest more time to build more features than another
sucker out there. That's almost entirely it. Period. Shit is just fast enough
these days, and if your industry cares about performance, well then maybe
understanding something about caching that can be learned in less than a day
from a blog article will help you with 80% of your problems.
There's plenty of work out there that craves better solutions, and a degree is
absolutely not even a nice to have at this point. Let me repeat: there are
fundamentally basic applications and software solutions that various
industries are dying to have exist, millions of dollars on the line if you
know what industries in question, that simply just take a damn long time to
implement but every individual piece is so far removed from so much as a basic
comp sci 101 algo class, that you're literally just talking about business
logic at that point.
~~~
tonyarkles
That’s all true. The flip side is that there’s also problems that do actually
require specialized training. An example that comes to mind for me from a few
years ago involved real-time simulation of a constellation of satellites. The
accuracy was on the order of meters. I ended up implementing RK4 as a solver,
and had to use pretty complex differential equations (2nd order effects matter
at that resolution).
The project also involved real-time bitstream generation and modulation at
10MS/s. That was a mixture of understanding DSP and some clever hacks to get
the performance we needed on the hardware we had. Oh, and concurrency without
race conditions, because we needed to use every core we had to make it all
work.
Yes, there’s lots of business problems that can be solved by programming
without much computer science. But there’s also a huge pile of problems where
it’s not even clear that it’s possible to solve using current tech. I,
personally, much prefer the latter, but to each his or her own.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Nice app, horrible source code: Telegram for Android - handpickednames
https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram/blob/master/TMessagesProj/src/main/java/org/telegram/ui/ChatActivity.java
======
latte
Did a quick search to find out the background - it turns out that the author
had almost no prior Android development experience, and in 2013 it won the
first place in the Android app challenged conducted by Telegram.
[https://vk.com/wall-55882680_36](https://vk.com/wall-55882680_36) [in
Russian]
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill - griff1986
https://twitter.com/CIS_org/status/1174448083444350977
======
umvi
> It eliminates the per-country cap, which meters issuance of green cards so
> that they are distributed to applicants from all countries
I'm not an especially pro-diversity person, but won't this just mean Indians
will get 99% of green cards with immigrants from all other countries fighting
over the remaining 1%? I don't know if that's a good thing necessarily, change
my view.
This perception is just based on my own company, in which I (an American) seem
to be in a _tiny_ minority compared to Indian H1-Bs.
~~~
sinatra
The problem is how we define diversity. People from Luxembourg, Switzerland,
and Monaco are considered different from each other. But people from Punjab,
Kerala, and Assam are not. I’ll argue that people from the latter group of
states from India are as diverse as people from the former group of countries
from Europe. And because those Indian states have bigger populations than many
countries, obviously those states will produce more talented people whom we’d
want to keep in USA. For reference, one state in India, Uttar Pradesh, has a
population of 200m.
~~~
hummerbliss
Very well put.
------
longstation
For both H.R.1044 and S.386, if they pass, people not born in India will wait
for years before getting the green card. For example, currently, people born
in China (note, it matters only where you born, not what citizenship you
currently hold), would wait about 4 years to get green card (after they start
the process), but once one of these bills passes, they would have to wait for
10 years to get it.
You would probably say they have a grace period, but unfortunately it only
"protects" people born in the country that currently doesn't not exceed the
per country limit. People from Philippines, China, etc will get the impact
almost immediately. To make this really fair, we need to create extra quota
for people born in India, not grabbing quota from other countries. (But I
guess this will diminish the chance of this bill getting passed so they choose
to hurt others, which from the perspective of people born in India, I totally
understand, but I feel sad that I and other people not from India will get
hurt inevitably once this bill passes).
[edited for typos]
~~~
dilippkumar
> For both H.R.1044 and S.386, if they pass, people not born in India will
> wait for years before getting the green card.
Not true. Anyone who doesn’t have an i140 with a priority date of 2012 or so
will have to wait years for a green card. Including people born in India.
If you were born anywhere in the world, and applied for a green card in the
next month, your wait time would not be different- Indian or not.
------
chown
As an immigrant myself I don't support this bill as this means we will have
more green card holders from just two countries, India and China, and hence
less diversity.
~~~
longstation
Also add to your comment, every time this bill comes up in the news, it says
people from India and China will benefit from it. But the reality is, only
people from India will so because currently the wait time for people born in
China is about 4 years, after the bill, for the next 10 years, no GC will be
given to people born in China because the long waitlist from India.
In fact, no one from China I know supports this bill.
~~~
longstation
Why downvote? I am stating the fact. We are discussing the issue, and you
should not downvote just because that person is potentially against your
interest.
~~~
sieabahlpark
HN will become the next Reddit with vote manipulation. Even when it's
absolutely clear this has major flaws.
~~~
longstation
Yes, and even the "why downvote" comment got yet another downvote.
------
tsycho
All of you who are commenting on how it's unfair that this bill will mean most
green cards over the next few years will go to Indians, how is it fair that
Indians currently have an 50+ year queue for a green card? As a personal
anecdote, one of my reports (at a FAANG company) has a double Masters (CS and
Math) from a top 5 US school, and is a star performer, and without this bill,
he has no hope of getting a green card during his working lifetime. He says
that he will leave the US if the situation doesn't change in the next few
years.
~~~
sieabahlpark
If you want an anecdote I've met multiple indians who have masters in the US
who can't conceive of solutions themselves. They can't figure out "if"
statements or solve logic problems that are trivial that I'd expect a freshman
in college to solve.
Don't be fooled by that the people around you are the majority who get the
green cards or visas. It's actually quite a weak argument all together. Same
as this one.
~~~
sv_h1b
And so the system will filter and reject them. Unless you believe everything
is Office Space?
~~~
sieabahlpark
On paper they look great, they passed interviews because they mastered how to
answer questions in interviews. It's not as black and white as you seem to
believe.
------
winkeyless
This Bill could get unanimous consent this week again. S386 will boost fraud
Indian IT outsourcing companies and give green cards to Indian workers. Green
card applicants from other countries will be blocked for 10 years including
British, Chinese, Iranian, Korean, Russian and etc. American workers will
suffer too from lower wages and lack of workspace diversity. See #S386 on
Twitter. Such a consequential bill should not be passed without public
hearing.
------
throwaway123x2
I don't understand how this would go through with unanimous consent. Diversity
is the lifeblood of America. We don't want immigrants that are proportional to
the rest of the world's population - we want the different ideas and ways of
thinking from all over the world.
The other day, I was at a table with a white American, a Tunisian, an Omani, a
Turk and an Indonesian, and it was some of the best conversation I've had in a
while. All besides me (an immigrant) and the American were the children of
immigrants.
------
marcinzm
Anyone have a TLDR summary of the bill?
From the twitter posts, seems like it removes the per-nation cap on Green
cards. Is there an overall cap on green cards across nations? In other words
does the pain just get spread onto everyone or does it actually improve
things?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Reader for Chrome. Bookmarking made simple - rukshn
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reader-extension-for-chro/emeacaomhbajejnndadbkbmfhpljjeik
======
rukshn
Hi, I'm the creator of Reader extension, please give feedback and ask anything
for clarifications :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Interesting Bridge, New Construction - savic
http://funpresident.com/2009/01/interesting-bridge-new-construction/
Leeuwarden Bridge in Dutch
======
MaysonL
See <http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/flyingbridge/> for more & more
informative, pictures.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The original pitch for Diablo (1994) [pdf] - dsl
http://www.graybeardgames.com/download/diablo_pitch.pdf
======
c0l0
Good to see plenty of people in the comments experiencing nostalgia due to
fond memories of playing this great, great game :)
You may be unaware that there is "Belzebub", a "HD mod" for the original
Diablo, available today, that taches the original engine a few tricks (besides
the obvious 1080p resolution), and also re-introduces a lot of the game's
planned content that had to be cut from the final release shortly before the
gold master was spun. And IT IS AWESOME! Even if you never tried the original
classic, you should probably give this a go if ARPGs in a dark fantasy setting
are something you might like.
To whet your appetite, check the trailer
([https://youtu.be/m4PfLbMJCoA](https://youtu.be/m4PfLbMJCoA)) on the (afaik,
unfortunately discontinued) mod's website:
[https://mod.diablo.noktis.pl/features](https://mod.diablo.noktis.pl/features)
The 1.045 release you may still download there (you need to provide a copy of
the game's assets in the form of the main CDs ".mpq" data file yourself) is
essentially a polished and extended re-make of the original Diablo 1. I played
for hours each day for a few days straight after I discovered the project in
2015. Hope someone else in here enjoys it as much as I did! :)
~~~
lobotryas
Do you know if the mod includes features/content from the D1 expansion? It's
hard to track down and I never played it (despite wanting to).
~~~
c0l0
If by "expansion" you mean Sierra's "Hellfire", then no - there's no content
overlap between it and Belzebub that I'd know of (that's not already included
in the original Diablo, of course).
------
AdmiralAsshat
Worth noting to those who haven't read the pitch: the original design for
Diablo was _turn-based_. The hexagonal movement system was causing a huge
headache for the programmers, however, and eventually they decided to make it
real-time.
The now-defunct Gametrailers did an amazing retrospective on the Diablo series
at some point:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bFa9qL8XQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bFa9qL8XQ)
EDIT: I also thought some of the side illustrations looked familiar. They are
taken from some illustrations for the _Dictionnaire Infernal_ :
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionnaire_Infernal#/media/F...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionnaire_Infernal#/media/File:Bael.jpg)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionnaire_Infernal#/media/F...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionnaire_Infernal#/media/File:Astaroth.jpg)
~~~
AndrewOMartin
Allow me to quote Diablo developer David Brevik describing when he finally
yielded to demands and hacked together a "real time" version of his turn-based
Diablo, by making turns elapse the rate of 20 turns a second.
'I remember taking the mouse, and I clicked on the mouse, and the warrior
walked over and and smacked the skeleton down, and I was like "Oh my god! That
was awesome!".'
'And the sun shone through the window, and God passed by, and the angels sung,
and sure enough that was when the ARPG was kind of born at that moment, and I
was lucky enough to be there.'
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc?t=27m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc?t=27m)
If you're in this part of this comment thread, you'll probably enjoy the whole
video.
~~~
djur
Ultima Underworld (1993), Ultima Underworld II (1994), Ultima VII (1994), and
The Elder Scrolls: Arena (1994) all come to mind quickly as computer-based
action RPGs that preceded Diablo (1996). And the Japanese were making top-down
action RPGs as early as the '80s, especially those made by Nihon Falcom (Ys)
and Quintet (Soul Blazer). I would particularly cite Brandish (1991, Nihon
Falcom) as a similar type of realtime action dungeon crawler (although it
wasn't released in the West until 1995).
All that isn't to diminish the substantial achievements of Diablo, which was
quite innovative. The fast, smooth gameplay was novel, as was the setting. It
was compulsively playable and accessible while a lot of earlier action RPGs
were kind of clunky. The art design was superb -- everything from the dreary,
gothic environs to the satisfying animation and sound of a pile of gold
bursting forth from a slain enemy. It's fair to say that Diablo was a
milestone in ARPG history and highly influential.
~~~
Will_Parker
I'll add
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faery_Tale_Adventure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faery_Tale_Adventure)
(1987) and
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_of_Lore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_of_Lore)
(1988)
~~~
animal531
I'll disagree on all those (and the Ultima's etc in the grandparent comment).
They were all focused on RPG and story first, then adding some action on top
of that (via isometric, fps etc. modes).
Diablo changed things in that it focused on action first, whereas the RPG
element is just an add-on. Its gameplay cycles between essentially going
deeper in a dungeon that's becoming more difficult, obtaining/selling etc. of
items/potions in town so that you can descend further. Its story isn't really
of (heavy) importance.
~~~
AdmiralAsshat
So what about Zelda II: Adventure of Link? The RPG elements were clearly
secondary, given that they were absent from the original LoZ.
------
jsgo
I miss this game moreso than probably any others in the series, maybe any game
at all outside of perhaps Chrono Trigger. There were trainers and what not,
but I remember after playing through it trying to create a "godmode" character
proper (no trainer) by specifically hunting for tomes to increase spells. That
was probably the thing that bummed me most about D2 and subsequently D3 in
that leveling spells after you'd "maxed out" was still something you could
grind in D1.
Vaguely related but mildly funny anecdote, I got into this game really late
(basically, when it was cheap). I remember buying it from Wal-Mart and also
buying one of the bigger bags of crispy M&Ms (Wikipedia says those came out in
1999 so I must have been even later than I remember). The game was incredibly
good, but the first couple times playing it, I'm going through said bag of
M&Ms because the game felt like a pretty intense movie at the time. Ever since
that point, anytime I played that game, I'd crave crispy M&Ms, which went away
after a while (though have since come back apparently).
~~~
wil421
I just noticed Chrono Trigger is available for iOS. Haven’t bought it yet but
I hope the port is a good one. I also enjoyed FF7 on my iPhone. Glad to see
Square is rereleasing titles for mobile.
I would kill for Nintendo to release a few old titles on iOS.
~~~
thebooktocome
Warning: the iOS port (and also the PC version on Steam) of Chrono Trigger is
widely regarded as terrible. Same with FFVI and FFV.
Luckily the old 3DS port of Chrono Trigger is good. The only way I know to
play FFVI now is with an SNES Classic: an overpriced raspberry pi.
~~~
jsgo
yeah, if you have a DS, go with the Chrono Trigger port. I can't speak to iOS,
but I tried some Final Fantasy port and gave up because I hated the controls.
The PC version, I have a 3440x1440 screen, it renders as a regular 1440p
screen in full screen and the tiles are nauseating. The only resolution that
looks okay is 800x600.
------
Humdeee
Fond memories of this as a kid. I remember after playing it for a while with
friends and coming across BoBaFett's trainer and DooM-Gaze's (sic?) trainer
enabling god-mode, fast spellcast, maxed stats, Godly Plate of the Whale
armor, King's Sword of Haste, dropping elixirs all over town around Deckard
Cain, etc. I was legitimately scared at my age to step into the cracks of hell
to go after Diablo when they opened behind Pepin's hut. And the Butcher...
kept all the lights on for that quest...
As a 10 year old, it was the first "adult" game I played (alongside Leisure
Suit Larry). Dropping the turn based style and keeping classes more simplistic
was an excellent decision. It's what introduced me to the online world via
battle.net and PKing (player killing) was a joy in itself. Clans, online
friends, and memories all shortly followed. Loved reading this.
Diablo 1: still better than the 3rd.
Source: overbearing nostalgia
~~~
callinyouin
I had pretty much the exact same experience and it seems we're about the same
age. It was my first exposure to online gaming and I remember being so amazed
that you could play a game like that over the internet with total strangers!
Cheating was a big downside to playing on battle.net though, in my experience.
It got so bad that you would enter a game and another player would either
crash the game (by dropping a modified ear IIRC) or everyone would be playing
with god-mode on. And creating an open, "legit" game only enticed cheaters to
join in order to kill everyone. Oh well. My friends and I had plenty of fun
playing over IPX and later LAN, or having password protected games on
battle.net with people I met in the chat rooms.
I was surprised to find that only a handful of years ago people were still
playing on battle.net. Not a lot, but enough to join a couple games and have
some fun. Didn't see any cheating, either.
~~~
Humdeee
The rush of cheating wore off pretty quickly. I think everyone went through
their 'ear collection' phase, but it was rather beating Diablo on Hell
difficulty as the real accomplishment. I always found the Lazarus quest to be
harder though.
I remember first discovering online mode. Clicking Multiplayer and seeing some
sort of "you must be connected to the internet" type message. I started up the
dial up connection and tried again and then the world opened up to me.
As much time as I spent on D1 and enjoying myself, it paled in comparison as
the gateway drug to SC:BW for me.
------
nilkn
I'd really enjoy seeing a modern ARPG that is legitimately unsettling and dark
in the way that Diablo was (and D2, to a slightly lesser extent). We've got
D3, which has really fun gameplay but feels commercialized and looks like WoW,
and we've got PoE, which has a lot of really brilliant ideas and has a darker
theme but at no point is ever actually unsettling.
~~~
rntksi
You might want to try Grim Dawn. If Turn-based works too then Darkest Dungeon.
~~~
hitekker
I'd recommend against Darkest Dungeon. Whereas Diablo 1 & 2 carefully
cultivated its gothic aura, DD went full-on edge and melodrama.
~~~
milesvp
I respectfully disagree. Darkest Dungeon captured the essence of Lovecraft in
ways I've not seen anywhere else. I highly recommend this game to anyone who
likes brutally hard turn based 1 dimensional combat. The game requires a lot
of compromises and you will suffer casualties. It's a rare game where I spend
almost as much time preparing for a dungeon run as I take doing the run. The
artwork also really spoke to me.
About the one warning I give about the game, is that it doesn't explain in
game enough early game. I got frustrated because the early game is really
punishing and it's too hard to figure things out since many interactions are
probabilistic. I finally found a wiki on the game which allowed me to
understand what I was doing wrong (and which dungeon artifacts should be
skipped when no protection). After that I fell in love with the gamr.
------
badgers
The turn based gameplay, square tile floor design, randomized levels and loot,
fantasy medieval world of sword and sorcery remind me of an earlier 1990s game
called Castle of the Winds -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_the_Winds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_the_Winds)
~~~
callinyouin
Thanks for mentioning this! I used to play the shareware version that I got
from one of those "1001 Games" type discs back in the day. I see the creator
released it into public domain so it looks like I'll be wasting a few hours
with this later this week.
~~~
jstarfish
Ha! I got my copy the same way.
I ended up giving up on it quickly when I got to the first dungeon/castle and
couldn't figure out how to move through the diagonal passages. In later years
I unlocked the secrets of the numpad.
------
zf00002
Thought I'd toss this out there for anyone interested that doesn't know. David
Brevik and his wife stream regularly on Twitch:
[https://www.twitch.tv/thejunglequeen](https://www.twitch.tv/thejunglequeen).
It's mostly his wife playing various games while David is next to her
playing/working on something. He will often talk about various experiences
making games.
He's been working on a new game, "It Lurks Below", you can find it on Steam
(not released yet). The game is in closed beta though. He's mentioned that one
of his daughters did some of the artwork and has actually released at least
one game of her own on Steam as well.
~~~
digi_owl
Yeah i'm tracking his upcoming game already.
It is basically Terraria with classes (meaning that you pick some kind of
special ability at the start of the game), survival elements (need to eat,
sleep, etc), and Diablo style randomized loot (all weapons are gun shaped
wands with wildly varying stats and firing patterns).
From what i have caught of others playing it, there are even an NPC in town
later on (you plop down preconfigured buildings for them) that can reroll old
dungeons.
Meaning that you can technically play the same world over and over, rather
than keep rolling new ones as seems to be the pattern with Terraria.
------
JD557
The title should be "The original pitch for Diablo (1994)", the 4 is in the
wrong place.
It would be pretty weird to have a pitch for Diablo 4 in the 90s, before
Diablo 3 was released. :)
~~~
thriftwy
It will not be unheard of. Bits of story of Might & Magic 8 were thought out
when the original Might & Magic 1 was created, along with most of e.g. magic
system.
------
munificent
It's crazy how close the original pitch was to classic Roguelikes — turn-
based, random dungeon, single town at the top, and a stack of dungeon levels
descending below. It's basically Rogue/Moria/Angband + graphics.
Of course, going real-time fundamentally changed the feel of the game, but the
initial pitch was much more "bring Moria to the masses".
------
Reedx
David Brevik released that just after the Diablo postmortem from GDC a couple
years ago:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc)
Worth watching for any fans of the original and if you want more context
around that pitch. Lots of interesting tidbits about the origins of Diablo and
Blizzard North.
And an amusing moment during the Q&A: Someone in the audience went up and gave
David some money to make up for pirating the game when he was a kid.
~~~
Tokiin
Related vid:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D_bVgplit0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D_bVgplit0)
IGN Unfiltered episode with David about his origins and the creation of
Diablo/Blizzard North.
~~~
corysama
FYI: We collect material like this over in
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/)
------
brandmeyer
The initial pitch barely mentions the part of the game that makes it so ~~much
fun~~addicting: You get to beat on pinatas until some loot pops out. Then
collect the loot and/or convert it into in-game currency.
Diablo was one of the earliest games to start exercising those little dopamine
hits of microjoy when the monsters go pop, hoping for just one more bit of
treasure/xp/whatever.
~~~
FrozenVoid
Actually people quickly got bored with item collection with wide availability
of duped items and gold(with exception of some variant gameplay groups which
played legit), the game actual attraction was its randomness(dungeon
layout/content) and challenge to complete levels at higher difficulties. Items
and gold were central to Diablo2, which is exactly the "pinata simulator" you
describe. In general, Diablo could be completed with trash items or(with
sorcerer, even nothing worn).
------
shawabawa3
Interestingly ahead of its time in that they had the idea of "DLC"'s already,
in the form of small interchangeable expansion packs.
Apparently that never worked out, maybe because without the ease of
downloading it wouldn't have sold enough against a single big expansion
~~~
pferde
I think this idea, at least in the exact form as described in the PDF, was
scrapped later due to addition to randomly generated items. Having expansion
packs which add more items does not make a lot of sense in that context.
~~~
stevenwoo
Here are some ways it could make sense (but would have to be careful to not
upset game balance): a.) more unique items (D1 has a small set of unique
items) b.) new suffix/prefix to add to item modifier lists c.) in
addition/response to the new suffix/prefix could add new resistance/attack
types only available with expansion pack d.) could make multiplay require same
expansion packs on each system to encourage upgrading
------
zupa-hu
For anyone curious, as per the pdf they planned the development to take 12
months. According to wikipedia, they pitched Blizzard in January 1995,
released the game on 31st December 1996. So that is ~24 months if they started
working immediately. They probably didn't. Plus the pdf doesn't mention sales
and marketing (Edit: in the schedule). Seems quite an amazing execution.
Please correct any mistakes I made.
~~~
ecesena
I was about to ask, thank you for adding the data from wikipedia. It’s
absolutely remarkable.
------
72mena
If someone has experience with Game Development I'd like to know your comments
on the timeline from the last page. The pitch mentions 1 developer and 2
junior-devs, and the timeline shows 11 months of work (4 of those are for
testing). How does that timeline compare to current processes? Any other
insights that can be shared from it? Thanks.
~~~
stevenwoo
I did not work on this but you'll need to take in mind that this was a fixed
resolution game with 2D sprites. There is no 3D art in the final product.
Finally this was just the proposal, Blizzard bought Condor and published
Diablo (1) and if you check the mobygames entry (which is usually a pretty
accurate copy of the in game credits), it has a much more extensive list of
software developers in the credits (three! people on the installer, though to
be fair, I'm pretty sure all the guys were down at Blizzard South providing a
lot of the low level libraries). IIRC the networking was also outside the
scope of Blizzard North's expertise at the time and most of that part was done
by Blizzard South via Battle.net.
[http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/diablo/credits](http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/diablo/credits)
edit: it also took them about twice as long including pre development time.
------
idank
Oh Diablo. I will never forget how you broke my heart when my hardcore
character died because my mom picked up the phone when I was busy slaying
demons.
------
gumballhead
My first experience with programming was making a "dump file" editor for my
Diablo character in 8th grade with Visual Basic.
Someone had built a utility to dump the memory for your character to a file,
where if you knew or could figure out the addresses, you could edit it and
load it back into the game. I spent a lot of time changing a value in game,
dumping the memory, and running a little diff tool I built to figure out where
everything was. Then I built a little editor that could edit your character
and item stats with a ui that looked like the game.
Such huge nostalgia for that game. StarCraft Remastered really brought back
memories too. Blizzard is so, so good at game design.
------
thriftwy
Original Diablo pitch is basically Angband. I'm glad that they made it RT :)
I'm also glad they had the guts to add permadeath mode into Diablo II.
------
pmarreck
This is written by "Condor." When did Blizzard acquire this?
~~~
kanzungjak
"Condor" was the name of the now defunct "Blizzard North" subsidiary.
------
ananab
Diablo and Diablo 2 were the best games ever released. Period.
------
tschellenbach
Anyone know how much time it took them compared to the original estimate? So
cool how small teams were building games back in the days.
~~~
stevenwoo
The original estimate is for the proposal, and it ended up taking about twice
as long. It was small, but not that small, IIRC Blizzard South did the
multiplayer and the cinematics among other things (after buying Condor ) so
it's not possible to evaluate the time estimate/team size estimate on its own
merits.
------
markfer
Thanks for posting this. Anyone know if you can play a modern update to this
on Mac?
------
thisismyusernam
Nostalgia overload...
How would I play the full, original Diablo now on my MacBook, if I wanted a
trip down memory lane? I wouldn't even know where to begin.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Firefox Hello - ajankovic
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/hello/
======
windlep
Since no one realizes that Mozilla actually develops stuff in the open (vs.
code/project-dumps like Google _after_ its 'done'), here's the Mozilla project
page for Hello (previously called Loop):
[https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop](https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop)
A bunch of the hypothetical questions here on HN could be answered easily by
skimming over this page and some of the pages linked in.
Edit: I'm not suggesting its _bad_ or _good_ to get a project to a more
polished state before open-sourcing it, mainly just pointing out that for
good/bad, Mozilla does happen to keep the entirety of the process very open.
~~~
pekk
I don't have any problem with people making open source projects and then
publishing them once they are finished. It's still open source.
~~~
gcb0
If you had contributed to chromium for weeks, and then google come with it's
monthly dump and overwritten everything you and others did in the open, you
would have a different opinion.
~~~
justinschuh
Sorry, but what the FUD is this? Chromium has never done anything of the sort.
It's developed completely in the open and has a huge number of non-Google
contributors committing code every day.
~~~
azakai
Chromium proper is indeed developed in the open, but the Chromium browser as a
whole is not, perhaps that's what was intended above, so there might be a
confusion of terminology here.
For example, v8 - a very important part of Chromium - is not developed fully
openly: major features are developed secretly and land as surprises, like
CrankShaft and TurboFan, and also daily development consists of patches
landing with little or no public discussion behind them.
~~~
justinschuh
Fair enough that v8 is an odd case, but it's an external dependency that
predates Chrome/Chromium with its own core team, development processes, third-
party obligations, and ecosystem. And accepting that, v8 does have third-party
contributors (see their policy here:
[https://code.google.com/p/v8-wiki/wiki/Contributing](https://code.google.com/p/v8-wiki/wiki/Contributing)).
Plus, do you really take issue with the occasional quietly developed code
drop, because isn't that pretty much how your team introduced asm.js support
in Firefox?
Beyond JS engines, you must appreciate that dependencies and business
relationships can get very odd when shipping something as big and complicated
as a browser. Chrome/Chromium absolutely experiences this, but so does
Mozilla. Take HTML EME, where Adobe's technical requirements have pretty much
forced Mozilla to break Andreas' and Brendan's original promises on how much
the closed-source CDM will be sandboxed. Then there's the h.264 situation,
which is an odd multi-step dance to deliver binaries from Cisco, and is
significantly more convoluted than Chrome's use of ffmpeg.
Regardless, I don't believe you're really trying to make the argument that
Chromium is not a publicly developed open source project with a huge pool of
non-Google contributors. Because you know that to simply be an indisputable
fact, even if there is additional complexity around certain dependencies and
platforms.
~~~
azakai
Of course I agree that the chromium _project_ itself, as opposed to the
chromium _browser_ , is developed openly and in a nice way. There is no
argument between us on that - it's a clear fact. And I agree that in a large
project like a browser, compromises can be necessary when you must work with
partners, as in the examples that you made. Good points.
But I strongly disagree on two things you mention:
Regarding asm.js, that is _not_ how it was developed. It was from day 1 done
on an open github repo,
[https://github.com/dherman/asm.js/](https://github.com/dherman/asm.js/)
There was never anything secret about it. (What would we have even gained by
being secretive about it? Nothing.)
Also, in v8 the issue is not just CrankShaft and TurboFan, but as I mentioned,
daily development. I file bugs when I find v8 failing on an emscripten output,
and so I follow v8 commits. There is almost no public discussion on them -
just patches, plus perhaps a review comment or two. No public bug with
background, explanations, motivation, etc. The code is open, but development
is clearly not.
I think it's obvious v8 is a major part of chromium, and it's completely
unnecessarily developed in a non-open manner. So I think it's fair to say the
chromium browser as a whole - as opposed to the chromium project itself - is
not developed fully openly.
Another example is Dart. Dart is not yet part of chromium, but the plans to
integrate it are public. Dart was developed secretly for a while, and in fact
only became known unintentionally in a leaked email. It's not clear when it
would have become public if not for that leaked email. Again, like with v8,
this is unnecessarily closed development - there are no legal issues or
partners that must be compromised with. It was just decided that v8 and Dart
would be developed non-openly (for reasons I can't understand).
~~~
justinschuh
Do you really think a code drop from an obscurely named github repo qualifies
as open development? Because it can just as easily be interpreted as hiding in
the noise, particularly when the eventual asm.js unveiling was done as a giant
PR blitz. Of course, you can argue that the secrecy was unintentional, but you
can't really argue that it wasn't taken advantage of.
To your argument that Chromium is not developed fully openly, you must
understand that Blink and Chromium contributors dwarf the v8 team by orders of
magnitude, right (even the security team is a bigger)? And you understand that
the difference in code size is even larger, right? I get that you're focused
on JS because it's your area, but in the grand scheme it's only one of many,
many important pieces. And if we're going to dig into it like this, do you
really believe every part of Firefox would hold up to the same level of
scrutiny? after all, Richard Stallman has made similar arguments about Firefox
not being truly free.
Now for Dart. I just don't see Chromium approaching Dart the same way Mozilla
approached asm.js. On the contrary, I strongly expect that dart.js will need
to prove the viability and popularity of the language before Chromium includes
any specific optimizations or support for it. As for the "leaks," I suggest
you read the doc people are referencing and consider the timelines involved.
Because, the content paints a very different picture, and the timelines don't
at all align with what you're claiming.
As for why the Dart team follows their particular development practice, I
don't know. They spun out of the original v8 team and aren't a part of Chrome
team. However, I do know both Dart and v8 have some non-negligible testing and
workflows tied to Google infrastructure. So, it may just be hard for them to
switch, or maybe no one has ever made the case to do so. Honestly, have you
tried just asking nicely rather than making accusations? I mean, you say you
can't understand it, but your behavior seems to assume and voice the worst
motivations for anything related to Google.
~~~
azakai
Well, asm.js was a research project for a few months. During those, it was
open on github, it was discussed openly on IRC (e.g. #emscripten, for example
when experimental commits came in to emit asm.js-like stuff), etc. During that
time, we didn't know if it would work or just be a waste of time. So no
blogposts were written, because what would we write? Most research projects
fail, and are not worth making an effort to mention. One just develops them in
the open and sees how things go.
What are you saying we should have done differently during the early research
period of asm.js? (Honest question, this situation happens all the time with
new research projects - I'd love to do better next time.)
And how exactly was the non-prominence "taken advantage of"? What benefit did
we get from it?
I completely agree with you about chromium (the project) being open, and yes,
clearly it is far larger than v8. Also, very likely I consider v8 to be more
important than the average person, since JS is my area, that is a fair point.
Still, I don't want to go all the way to saying something like "v8 is
negligible". It's not. JS is the only standardized programming language
available for web pages. The JS writing community is huge. People writing
websites use HTML, JS and CSS, with JS being pivotal. So JS does matter quite
a lot, even if v8's size is small in comparison to the rest of chromium.
Hence, v8 not being developed openly is a black mark against the openness of
the chromium browser. That seems an unavoidable conclusion. But it is open to
debate on the amount - is v8 more or less important - of course.
I'm not sure what you think I'm claiming about Dart, if you think the timeline
in the Dart document doesn't align with anything I said?
I apologize if it seems like I'm assuming the worst about Google's motivations
regarding anything. I think I was pretty careful in _not_ talking about
motivations, because I don't know them. The facts are that v8 development is
not fully open. And, it is a fact that I don't understand that. Not sure how
that shows I think Google is being evil or anything like that? Not is anything
I said an "accusation" about Google's motivations, as again, I tried to focus
on the observable facts. (Or, did you make that statement referring to
something else I said - if so, what?)
I have talked to v8 people, and I have asked questions about openness and
development procedures and so forth. I also file bugs regularly and interact
with them on the tracker. I admire the v8 developers - they are doing an
amazing job! So I'm not someone from afar that is assuming the worst. I'm
someone that likes the v8 project, tries to help out, and interacts with it,
while at the same time is kind of puzzled and disappointed that it isn't
developed openly. And I feel that reflects poorly on chromium. That's all.
------
Sir_Substance
It seems there is a lot of confusion going on here.
Firefox hello is a website that implements webRTC based video conferencing in
a browser agnostic way.
The "firefox hello" button that has shown up in recent versions of the browser
is a bit of UI magic over an API to this website. The video conferencing code
is not implemented in the browser.
If you send a firefox hello link to a chrome user, it opens the webpage when
they click on it instead of the UI element.
I actually think it's really neat, and have replaced skype with it since it
works so widely and doesn't require everyone to have an account to use it.
~~~
reidrac
I have a success story with that.
I moved abroad and I have a chat with my parents using Skype from time to
time. After the Microsoft acquisition Skype had to be upgraded and the old
version stopped working. My parents aren't tech-savvy really and I failed to
diagnose their problem remotely, so I tried
[https://talky.io/](https://talky.io/) (just because I watched Sam Dutton talk
about WebRTC and he used that web for a demo).
It worked (to be completely fair, slightly worse than an average Skype
session), and it kind of blew my mind. My parents weren't impressed though,
when I explained them how amazing was that we were video conferencing using a
website and open standards.
EDIT: typos
~~~
rquirk
The problem I had doing something similar was getting the link to them. You
need some other out-of-band communication method, whereas with skype you just
agree to a time of the week when to sign on and call each other. Email sort-of
works, but not as easily as the central logged-in lobby system.
~~~
ams6110
Would be very easy to have a website that coordinated this. Even pastebin
would do pretty easily.
------
BSousa
I saw the tag line, liked what I saw until "powered by Telefonica".
Seriously, I've lived in more than half of the European countries for a while,
and never ever EVER saw such a shitty internet service as in Spain over their
network. Lack of service for hours every day, substandard speeds... It made me
anticipate a move to Portugal by one year because of their shitty service.
~~~
pnathan
I am bummed - I was hoping it was just straight up peer to peer video. Why do
we need an intermediary?
~~~
johntb86
Computers behind some types of NATs can't use peer-to-peer video:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traversal_Using_Relays_around_N...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traversal_Using_Relays_around_NAT)
------
nothrabannosir
I hate being "that guy", but what about sites like
[https://appear.in/](https://appear.in/) that do this without (seemingly?)
depending on browser support? Is this using some novel p2p technique that
can't be implemented using just JS?
When you send a FF Hello invite to a Chrome user, it works fine.
I.o.w.: why is this not just a website?
~~~
UberMouse
Both Firefox Hello and appear.in use WebRTC which is a Javascript API provided
by the browser for this sort of stuff. So appear.in does require browser
support.
Firefox Hello also is a website, it's just running inside the browser.
[http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-
central/source/browser/compon...](http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-
central/source/browser/components/loop/content/)
------
AdmiralAsshat
Do they have the specs anywhere on their encryption?
~~~
mbrubeck
Here's a good summary:
[http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/slides/rtcweb-13.pdf](http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/slides/rtcweb-13.pdf)
The peer-to-peer WebRTC connection uses DTLS+SRTP:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datagram_Transport_Layer_Secur...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datagram_Transport_Layer_Security)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Real-
time_Transport_Pro...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Real-
time_Transport_Protocol)
------
suyash
Now the question is can you enable 'Screen sharing' utility to it? It could
then be a killer app for meetings and conferences getting rid of all the
expensive external software applications?
When I say screen share, I mean not just the browser's screen but the whole
computer screen?
~~~
72deluxe
I am not sure giving the browser permission to poll your entire screen via an
API is a good idea - think of the possible abuses.
------
cjensen
A web browser should not include X functionality, but should allow a web page
to implement X functionality. In my view, this is true for most values of X,
including Skype, Mail, Word, Excel...
To add insult to injury, there is no simple way of disabling the
functionality[1]. Firefox Hello is ludicrous.
[1] about:config is not a valid value of simple
~~~
criley2
Just call it the "Chrome-ification" of Firefox.
Chrome is automatically updated to be jam-packed full of browser-specific APIs
and functionality.
Like when Chrome automatically updated and registered itself as a background
service without permission.
Or when Chrome automatically installed a microphone listening service for
always on "OK Google" hotword detection.
Or the fact that Chrome Apps are less and less "webpages" and more and more
"applications that only support the Chrome API".
"To add insult to injury, there is no simple way of disabling the
functionality"
I wish I got paid my hourly rate for the sheer amount of time I spend combing
through Google Product Forums reading about what arcane chrome://flags or
commandline ---arg is required to disable their new functions.
It's a shame what's happening to the web.
~~~
nolok
This is a thread about firefox, when you make an answer entirely about chrome.
This is neither the place nor the time for your rant.
~~~
dmix
It is very relevant. Both Chrome and Firefox are getting extremely bloated and
feature-creeped. Besides bloat/performance/quality, each new feature is a new
security attack vector [0].
This is a very valid discussion. Software engineers would naturally have
concerns when a browser built to render web pages gets turned into a pseudo
operating system. The risk here is that without focus it won't be a good
browser nor a good OS.
[0] [https://www.mozilla.org/en-
US/security/advisories/mfsa2015-0...](https://www.mozilla.org/en-
US/security/advisories/mfsa2015-07/)
~~~
azakai
This, however, is just a little UI over WebRTC, an existing feature that is
accessible to web content already. Hello doesn't add any significant area for
new security attacks.
It's possible your argument could be against adding WebRTC itself, instead of
Hello, but the topic here is Hello.
------
caractacus
Just what does the 'powered by Telefonica' bit mean?
~~~
aroch
[https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/16/mozilla-and-
telefon...](https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/16/mozilla-and-telefonica-
partner-to-simplify-voice-and-video-calls-on-the-web/)
Presumably offering routing servers and transit. Plus Telefonica bought
TokBox[1], whose tech powers the backend
[1] [https://tokbox.com/](https://tokbox.com/)
~~~
higherpurpose
Does this affect the end to end encryption mechanism of WebRTC (at least for
Internet users)?
In other words, can Telefonica make it easy to spy on _all_ Firefox Hello
talks, or only on the browser-to-phone ones? (which is to be expected, I
guess).
~~~
aroch
From my understanding of the WebRTC spec, as long as your TURN/STUN server is
trusted (which it is, the CA and relay are both run by Mozilla) it doesn't
matter if the network is untrustworthy.
WebRTC by itsself is not MITM resistant
------
ffn
As an example of WebRTC this is pretty decent... but please work on getting
navigator.getUserMedia to screen-capture into a stream more easily; right now,
the browsers' screen-capturing apis are extremely wonky and difficult to build
applications with.
------
sehr
Built with React.js as well!
[http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-
central/source/browser/compon...](http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-
central/source/browser/components/loop/content/js/)
~~~
jbeja
Omg, I love react, but you fanboyism is just to far.
------
fiatpandas
It's interesting, although struck me as weird to bundle/market it as part of
the core Firefox experience, especially considering its closely tied to a
third party. Seems more extension territory.
~~~
azakai
You can see it as a pre-bundled extension, I suppose.
I think the point of pre-bundling it is to get more attention and in that way
to promote WebRTC, which is a good goal.
Size-wise, I didn't look at the code but this is likely a tiny extension, it's
just a little UI over WebRTC.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _the point of pre-bundling it is to get more attention and in that way to
> promote WebRTC_ //
Presumably though instead of FF dev team making a Moz sponsored extension
Telefonica came to them and said "we'll give you this barrel of cash if we can
put our name on a new part of FF that gets default installed".
Indeed Moz could have just had Telefonica named as devs on an extension and
shipped it as default - which would seem more natural. The way it is makes it
more like a marketing move to hijack FF as a place to put an advert.
Appear.in seems to work fine and without messing with my browser chrome.
~~~
tedmielczarek
I would be extremely surprised to find out that was how it happened. More
likely we (Mozilla) just have contacts at Telefonica from our Firefox OS work,
and Telefonica happens to have this opentok software which provides a useful
piece of making Firefox Hello work, so co-branding was a win/win.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
Going with that line, was the inclusion of Hello such a complex thing that it
needed to be bought in from outside of Mozilla - I'd assumed that using WebRTC
as a video chat component made things [relatively] quite facile which is why
there are so many implementations popping up.
What's the essential feature that Telefonica brings to the table that makes it
worth Mozilla compromising their brand across 500 million installs [using
Wikipedia figures there] - that's essentially saying that what Telefonica
bought to the table is worth, what, > $5 million [assuming 10¢ per install for
the brand placement]. Can you expand on the "win/win" part on the Mozilla, and
their supporters, side?
------
nikolak
>There’s no account or sign-in required and nothing extra to download. Just
start a conversation, send your friend a link and ask them to click it.
I don't think this is such a great idea, at least in my case, if I'm sending
someone link for them to open instantly then I'm probably already using a
platform that supports video conversations - for example Skype, which also has
IM and some other stuff that FF Hello doesn't.
~~~
kleiba
Different people's workflows differ, of course.
I can totally imagine this for the video conferences we have with external
partners in our group. These are usually scheduled ahead of time, so we could
just arrange that people check their inbox for the link. Email is what most
people use in these projects, while IM'ing is very exotic and practically not
used.
------
jason46
So this link is useful for new users. I had no idea how to open it.
[https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/where-firefox-hello-
but...](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/where-firefox-hello-button)
Next issue, I'm using a docked laptop and it defaulted to the cam in the
folded laptop instead of the cam pointed at me..
~~~
jason46
Anybody see a way to change the camera?
------
aragot
There's already an FAQ entry [1] on "Where is the Firefox Hello button?", and
the answer is not an intuitive one. It would have been OK to display the
button by default.
[1] [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/where-firefox-hello-
but...](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/where-firefox-hello-button)
------
tn13
I am happy to see Firefox adding any sort of functionality as long as they
dont break the web standards. For example it would be bad if Firefox Hello
comes as "hello.firefox.com" but does not work in Chrome.
But if it comes as a Firefox only extension I am fine with it.
~~~
nsm
It uses webrtc. The link you share will work on any browser that has webrtc.
The icon is only to make things easier if you use firefox.
------
dorfsmay
Is the connection peer to peer once established?
Btw, I tried hello a couple of weeks ago and it felt like voice/video over the
net 5 or 6 years ago, no proper echo cancelation, similar to the old video
plugin in pidgin. Also, there is no text IM.
~~~
dkharrat
It's based on the WebRTC standard, so in general, yes it's peer-to-peer.
However, in cases where the peer-to-peer connection cannot be established
(e.g. a user behind symmetric NAT), then a third-party relay server is used
(called a TURN server) which acts as the intermediary between the peers (sort
of like a proxy).
------
Shivetya
and here I remember the day this all started because browsers had become
bloated.
~~~
maxerickson
Firefox was always about switching to a user oriented focus. Getting rid of
bloat happened to be a necessary early step on that path.
------
shmerl
When is anyone going to make a pure WebRTC service for calling phone lines
that would work in the browser? All existing ones require some native code
plugins. Not sure why no one made such service yet.
~~~
hox
Twilio Client ([https://www.twilio.com/webrtc](https://www.twilio.com/webrtc))
does this through just JavaScript and webrtc, using Twilio as the bridge.
granted you need to wire up to the JavaScript, but it's fairly simple.
~~~
shmerl
Do they have a WebRTC based service for users (not for developers) similar to
Google Talk / Hagnouts phone calling which doesn't necessarily create a
dedicated phone number for you, but allows calling other phones? I'm not
interested in building my own service using their API, I want simply to use
one like that without a need to debug weird issues in native plugins.
------
samvj
Since they're doing it at the browser level, it would have been nice if they
provided screen sharing instead of this.
Google Hangouts-like screen sharing without the need for an account would be
awesome.
------
songco
Oh, when Mozilla add "Share Screen" feature to hello?
~~~
visarga
Use VNC, it's better anyway. I run vnc over a ssh tunnel to make it safer.
~~~
m_mueller
So, what's your workflow when you need to see someone's screen? Please note:
You might talk to this someone for the first time and (s)he might not be an IT
person.
------
skyshine
Does anyone know if they are planning on including an IM client with it. (I
know it doesn't have one yet). Without that it is pretty useless to me.
------
yxhuvud
So I imported some contacts. How the hell do I remove some of them? Why wasn't
I given a choice of which contacts to import?
------
anon4
I tried it. It works pretty well over the local lan, at least. What I really
want to see is multi-user chats.
------
mgkimsal
Guess I'm the odd duck out... Crashes every time I try it - 35.0.1 on
Mavericks 10.9.4 :(
~~~
nsm
Please file a bug at bugzilla.mozilla.org, or you can email me the details
(email in profile) and I'll file it for you.
~~~
mgkimsal
filed (had to get home first)
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1127178](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1127178)
Not sure this is necessarily enough info to go on, but it's reproducible on my
end for sure - it wasn't a one-off.
thanks.
------
e0m
Can this support multiple conversations at once? Group chat Sqwiggle / Hangout
style?
~~~
aragot
It doesn't seem so. I've tried with 3 windows (FF Dev, FF and Chrome) and it
says "There are already two people in this conversation."
------
teabee89
I was using vline.com (also using WebRTC) works like a charm.
------
blueskin_
Oh great, more bloat and potential vulns.
Anyone got a way to disable it yet?
------
mp3geek
Does it include IM rather than just video/audio chat?
~~~
nothrabannosir
no, unfortunately :(
~~~
m_mueller
well that's a real bummer. I was hoping for a decent Skype replacement.
------
minusSeven
All the negativity aside, anyone knows how this works ?
------
tobico
Mozilla are clearly becoming desperate to find any distinguishing factors to
market Firefox. Sadly, this feels like the beginning of the end for this
browser.
~~~
olefoo
Let's see where this stands three years from now.
Mozilla is working on some pretty neat stuff; and is paying attention to the
rest of the world, not just the American/European/Japanese market.
Also since they are a foundation owned corporation with a public benefit
mission [https://www.mozilla.org/en-
US/foundation/moco/](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/moco/) they can
take a longer-term view than some of the other big players.
Having played with one of the flame dev phones for FirefoxOS I wouldn't be too
surprised if within the decade they are dominant in areas of the world that
don't have an installed base ( rural india, sub-saharan africa outside of SA,
etc. ).
Remember that more people are going to acquire mobile internet devices in the
next 5 years than were on the internet in 1998.
~~~
drdaeman
The underlying problem and a source of debate is this "public benefit" part,
as perceived by some engineers vs others.
The problem is simple to describe, but nearly impossible to solve.
On the one hand, ask anyone whenever they want to have video conferencing
without having to download additional software and based on open standards
blah blah — and you're likely to hear "yeah, that's cool, where do I get it?"
before you finish the questions. Because, without going in much detail this
all sounds awfully good.
On the other hand, a few engineers have issues with this. Questions like "why
this is bundled in giant monolithic browser blob" are perfectly valid.
Especially those who value classic UNIXes' approach to do things, may be well
dissatisfied with this kind of stuff being done in the name "public benefit",
considering this as yet another case of "dancing bunnies" problem, with masses
being ignorant of the issues.
~~~
olefoo
Except this isn't "bundled with a monolithic browser blob"; it's enabled by
supporting WebRTC, and it's compatible with other WebRTC implementations.
That we're even discussing this goes to show the tragic decline of critical
thinking and basic reading comprehension on this board.
~~~
drdaeman
I thought the topic quickly moved to be about A/V conferencing, WebRTC and
other features in general, not Hello in particular. There isn't much to
discuss about yet-another-WebRTC-site, so the topic had shifted.
And then everything depends on how one views things. Firefox _is_ a monolithic
blob, and WebRTC is a fairly tightly integrated part of it. This is valid
point to discuss.
For one, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to have WebRTC as a part of the
browser and not as an fairly autonomous plugin/extension (bundled with browser
default packaging, no problems here). Tight vs loose coupling.
You know, one thing I absolutely love about Flash is that I can completely
remove or selectively disable it as I see fit. ;)
~~~
mkal_tsr
It seems even with the separate efforts for once-browsers-now-OSes (Firefox
OS/Chrome OS/etc), we're still getting feature-creep in the browser. I
understand that webRTC is a spec from the W3C, but I'm not sure that's the ...
best ... solution.
Maybe I'm a bit too old-school in this regard, but I view the WWW as an
interactive document repository (sites/forums/rich-apps), whereas the Internet
is the network that the WWW operates on. So for me, a browser is used to
explore/use the WWW whereas individual applications and tools are used to
explore/use the Internet.
I feel this is an important distinction because I would like at least _one_
modern/popular web browser to retain this philosophy, which is difficult when
each browser (and parent umbrella org) decide to push more desktop-app-like
functionality to the browser.
10 years ago the internet was quite different (and 10 years prior to that
too), I'm curious / worried / cautious how it'll be in another decade. At
least it'll be an interesting ride :-P
------
dyeje
The logo reminds me of HipChat.
------
mikelbring
Is it available for Chrome?
------
monsterix
Super! Looks great works great too!
Lately I'd been bothered by poor quality experience and sometimes even spam
requests on Skype. Hangouts was never my thing and Firefox Hello seems like a
breath of fresh air just at the right time. Keep it up!
~~~
suyash
another problem with tools like Skype and Google Hangout is the number of
concurrent participants.
~~~
jrochkind1
How many does Firefox Hello support? I can't figure out from the page if it
supports more than 2 -- which makes me think it's probably 2.
------
Eleutheria
Sending a link is stupid.
I want my browser to ring when there is an incoming call.
Firefox should have an open socket connection to Mozilla servers and deliver
services thru that, just like android cloud messaging, like alerts,
notifications, push apis, etc.
~~~
hardwaresofton
Mozilla != Google
Funding such services is a big decision for them -- they're the ones that have
to support it, keep it up, and pay for it (for the life of the service). As
they make money in a distinctly different way from Google, they don't have the
same positive feedback loop -- Google is happy to provide you free web
services because you are the product.
------
dionyziz
Why is this even a thing?
------
mkal_tsr
I've updated my user.js helper/repo to disable Hello/"codename Loop" \-
[https://github.com/m-kal/PrivatePanda](https://github.com/m-kal/PrivatePanda)
\-----
Dear Mozilla,
Firefox is a browser. Can you please stop with the feature creep? That'd be
lovely. Remember, you're a browser, not an operating system. Oh, you'd _like_
to be an operating system? Cool, then make an OS (o hai there Firefox OS) and
keep that functionality there. Stop adding extra features that are not needed
to browse the internet.
It seems only Lynx cares about an authentic node-to-node / client-to-server
relationship without all the privacy concerns :-(
~~~
toolz
You realize this is just a fancy bookmark, right? Lynx has bookmarks, too.
~~~
mkal_tsr
Can Lynx activate this feature at all? Lynx may have bookmarks, but as far as
I can tell, Lynx does not have WebRTC support, which means it can not be
exploited to share private LAN IP addresses, nor can it access web cams.
Firefox, like Chrome, is going overboard with non-web-browsing features. Some
less technical users surely will appreciate that, but at some point it becomes
less of a browser and more of a pseudo-OS.
If people don't voice their opinion against this direction, then Mozilla will
continue down this path. I don't think it's too much to ask a web browser to
be a web browser and nothing more.
~~~
toolz
Then your argument is against webRTC, not Hello.
~~~
mkal_tsr
I am also against webRTC, I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Mozilla is
signalling with this that they're looking to push applications that leverage
their feature-set.
~~~
tedmielczarek
Yes, because no other browser vendor ever does that. _cough_ Google _cough_.
~~~
mkal_tsr
You're implying that I don't care that Google and Opera are doing it too. That
is false.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why do we all still use Qwerty keyboards? - CapitalistCartr
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20161212-why-is-qwerty-on-our-keyboards
======
nacc
I have switched to programmer's dvorak (dvp) for a year now. I have recorded
the amount of typing vs speed. Right after the switch, the speed increase is
logarithmic to amount of typing: I will need to practice twice the amount of
typing to get a constant speed increase.
But now, I definitely feels much better than qwerty if typing English / code
regularly. I no longer feel the strain on my fingers after long periods of
typing. I also got a ~15% speed improvement, but that might just because I can
touch type better. However there are several things that come up surprising me
after the switch:
1\. I forget all about qwerty. Every time I type on someone else's computer, I
will have to look at the keyboard and picking letters one by one. It doesn't
seem to get better over time.
2\. Passwords are annoying to type even after I am generally comfortable with
dvp after 3 months.
3\. Shortcut keys are even more resilient to change. It takes very long to get
comfortable with vim again (about 6 months), but now after a year of dvp I
still have trouble Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v.
4\. I spent a lot of time changing keyboard settings in games.
So for most of people who don't specifically focus on typing long paragraphs
of english texts but press keys mostly as short cuts, I can see there is not
sufficient reason to switch, if everything is designed around qwerty.
~~~
steveeq1
Curious. Do you use vim? Does this affect the way you use the navigation keys
(h j k l)? Do you remap the keyboard differently for navigation?
~~~
wbolster
if you are interested in vim ergonomics and alternative layouts, i wrote
extensively about the vim + colemak layout i use on a daily basis:
[https://github.com/wbolster/evil-colemak-basics#design-
ratio...](https://github.com/wbolster/evil-colemak-basics#design-rationale)
------
gnicholas
Interestingly, QWERTY's efficiency is back on the upswing. That is, the common
understanding is that QWERTY was developed—at least in part—to reduce jams
resulting from adjacent keys being pressed in close succession. This was
relevant on typewriters, but of course is not relevant on computers, which
have no inked bits to jam.
As we shift to virtual keyboards, there is again a benefit to having distance
between frequently-used keys. Predictive typing guesses are better when keys
like A, E, and I are not close to each other, since there are many words where
only the vowel differs (bit/bet/bat, nit/net/nat, etc.).
On a somewhat related note, I've been trying Swype recently. After a couple
weeks, I'm still not more efficient than regular typing, but I could see how I
might get there eventually. I'd be curious to know what others have found the
learning curve to be—how long it takes to "break even" and whether efficiency
continues to improve for months.
~~~
baldfat
QWERTY Myth. QWERTY was not in fact designed to protect the keys from jamming.
In 1956 it was shown that QWERTY was as fast if not faster then Dvorak.
> The myth goes roughly as follows. The QWERTY design (patented by Christopher
> Sholes in 1868 and sold to Remington in 1873) aimed to solve a mechanical
> problem of early typewriters. When certain combinations of keys were struck
> quickly, the type bars often jammed. To avoid this, the QWERTY layout put
> the keys most likely to be hit in rapid succession on opposite sides. This
> made the keyboard slow, the story goes, but that was the idea.
[http://www.economist.com/node/196071](http://www.economist.com/node/196071)
The Myth goes well with the Army report on the slowness of QWERTY.
> But then it turns out—something else the report forgot to mention—that the
> experiments were conducted by one Lieutenant-Commander August Dvorak, the
> navy's top time-and-motion man, and owner of the Dvorak layout patent.
~~~
carussell
The claim is that QWERTY was designed to reduced jams. You dispute this, and
link to an article showing that QWERTY is not slow. These are not the same
thing.
QWERTY _was_ designed to prevent jams. QWERTY _was not_ designed to make
typists slower.
~~~
AdamN
Urban myth ...
[https://books.google.com/books?id=EtnyT44_c1EC&pg=PA44&lpg=P...](https://books.google.com/books?id=EtnyT44_c1EC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=qwerty+new+york+times+contests&source=bl&ots=CwGmBuMMLC&sig=gazg4_ZBqXtjgYVlbkN8x4lxNhc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdx4yH0_HQAhVHRhQKHXIOB5wQ6AEIMDAD#v=onepage&q=qwerty%20new%20york%20times%20contests&f=false)
~~~
carussell
Huh? Can you please explain what that link has to do with what I wrote and do
it in full sentences?
~~~
baldfat
I read it and will say this. QWERTY had competition including speed
competitions and there were no vastly better technology then. Right now there
is no study that shows QWERTY is substandard to other layouts in a measurable
way.
------
coldtea
Because the disadvantages of Qwerty are mostly old wives tales, and the
advantages of the alternative keyboards are overly advertised but marginal.
[https://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html](https://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html)
~~~
ZeroGravitas
This is libertarian propaganda. The authors literally don't believe markets
can be wrong, hence popular examples of markets being wrong get attacked.
Now, maybe there's truth in it, maybe there's not. But let's be clear, this is
not coming from an expert in human ergonomics, or in the history of
technology, it's coming from people with an agenda to defend and this is
rarely, if ever brought up when it is cited.
If libertarian sources can repeatedly doubt the science behind climate change,
then the history of keyboard ergonomics is small beer by comparison.
[http://dvorak.mwbrooks.com/dissent.html](http://dvorak.mwbrooks.com/dissent.html)
~~~
baldfat
Dvorak was the Commander that ran the army trails and wrote the report on 26
typist that showed any speed improvements. It is shown in 1956 that QWERTY was
just as fast if not faster then Dvorak. This is science and not some
libertarian attack on marketing????
[http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html](http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html)
~~~
nether
Speed is the least significant reason to change keyboard layouts. You can get
to 100 wpm typing with two fingers, evidenced on YouTube. Layout doesn't
matter if you want to type fast. The main reason is comfort, which is harder
to demonstrate but very obvious in my experience (as someone who switched to
Dvorak 11 years ago but still regularly uses qwerty at libraries).
------
pklausler
I used to get a numbness on the backs of my hands after a long day of coding.
It scared me! Switched to Dvorak, the numbness vanished, and I've been happy
with it ever since. This was back in '95 or so.
If you're happy with your QWERTY keyboard, good. Nobody's going to take it
away from you. But I was glad to have an alternative.
P.S. Also back in the 90's, I ran a genetic programming experiment in which I
tried to evolve a keyboard layout that minimized finger motion across a corpus
of text. The best layouts all had the vowels on the home row under one hand
and THNS on the home row under the other.
~~~
lgunsch
Similar for me too, I got tedonitis. I immediately switched to Colemak, fixed
my hand posture, and I've been great ever since. As a side effect, I can type
significantly faster too.
------
syphilis2
I often wonder why the typical keyboard keys are staggered such that symmetry
is not mirrored for each hand. The top row is shifted slightly to the left of
the home row, which means your left hand fingers reaching outward travel a
different distance than your right hand fingers reaching outward. Combined
with letter placement, the left hand usually has a lot more to do than the
right.
The bottom row is much more symmetrically positioned, and yet has the fewest
letter keys.
~~~
wbolster
the historical reason for staggering are the metal arms on mechanical
typewriters, which obviously does not make any sense nowadays, but
unfortunately the design stuck, as did the qwerty layout.
non-staggered keyboards, such as the kinesis advantage, better match the shape
of the hand, sometimes even with vertical "staggering" instead of horizontal.
additionally, the thumbs are the strongest fingers but are only supposed to
hit the (huge) space bar. this is the problem that alternative physical
layouts like the ergodox and the kinesis advantage try to address.
also, split keyboards allow you to use wrist and arm angles that match your
body instead of the keyboard.
different letter layouts like colemak (good, especially modern computers) and
dvorak (also good, but designed in the pre-computer era) significantly reduce
finger travel and improve on finger and hand alteration. for me personally,
colemak works great to prevent strain.
~~~
gnicholasgreen
'ortholinear' might be the term you are looking for.
On a personal note, I've found no issues bouncing back and forth between and
Ergodox and regular, non-split, staggered keyboards.
------
nilved
I think that we should have redesigned our keyboard layouts when we switched
to mobile. Keyboards are used very differently today. Swiping multiple letters
is possible, people often type with one hand, etc. After using KeyBee for a
while I really feel like QWERTY on a phone is very cumbersome. Swiping is less
effective because the keys weren't laid out with n-grams in mind. Arranging
them in squares wastes screen real estate.
I highly encourage you try it out for a week -- it is really much easier to
learn than you'd expect. (No affiliation.)
[http://keybee.it](http://keybee.it)
------
bad_user
Dvorak is optimized for the English language, but my primary language isn't
English. Qwerty is universal for languages with the Roman alphabet and I type
with more than 120 words per minute, which is enough for me.
I also feel pain every time I end up in front of another computer just for
having mapped my Caps Lock to a Ctrl. But that's just one key and having to
switch to a completely different keyboard layout is just too painful.
Then there are the smart text editors, like Vim or Emacs, which have shortcuts
optimized for Qwerty. Common shortcuts like `C-x C-f` or `C-x C-s` are no
longer easy to type. So for each of those editors under your tool-belt, you
have to reconfigure them. Yay, that's just what I want.
Basically Qwerty wins because it is ubiquitous and because the alternatives
aren't good enough.
~~~
wbolster
you mistake speed as the dominant factor and then you claim you are fast
enough so switching is not worth it, while you should instead focus on
comfort. you will only fully realise this after experiencing pain.
also, while vim hjkl navigation was designed for qwerty, emacs shortcuts are
not.
(for a vim + colemak alternative see the rationale for the layout i use:
[https://github.com/wbolster/evil-colemak-basics#design-
ratio...](https://github.com/wbolster/evil-colemak-basics#design-rationale) )
~~~
lgunsch
Interesting link! I type Colemak and pretty much gave up on Vim after trying
to remap so many keys. This project didn't exist back when I gave up on
learning Vim.
~~~
wbolster
that project did not exist since i switched to colemak only recently, and that
made my evil-mode setup (vim editing on top of emacs) completely unusable for
me, which is why i started this project.
for a similar vim-based implementation (which served as inspiration for my
remappings), see
[https://github.com/ohjames/colemak](https://github.com/ohjames/colemak)
------
lgunsch
I switched to Colemak years ago, and I still love it. It helped remove my
tendonitis, and improved my typing speed.
The odd time I use another computer I hunt and peck. My phone is still qwerty
too, but it seems to not matter at all, since its not touch typed.
When I first started learning Colemak, I simply used a regular qwerty
keyboard, and ignored the labels on the keys. Now I love my mechanical
keyboard with cherry mx blue switches, with a custom Colemak key-cap set.
------
teilo
I am one of the few people out there who has: started on Dvorak, switched to
Colemak, switched to Qwerty, and then switched back to Dvorak. During each
switch, I stuck with it until I was >100WPM.
My results: Every time I switched, my speed and accuracy improved.
Here is my conclusion: As long as your layout is a reasonably useable layout
(which all of the above are), it doesn't matter. If your speed increases, it
has nothing to do with the layout. It is because by switching your layout, you
are forcing your brain to re-train, and in the process are eliminating bad
habits, and increasing your focus on speed and accuracy.
The ability of the brain to adapt far exceeds any intrinsic advantage of one
keyboard over another. Ergo, the keyboard layout wars are meaningless.
The only advantage one layout may have over another is ergonomic - i.e., for
those who are especially prone to RMI, the (slight) edge of one layout over
another _might_ make a difference. Even then, the difference is minimal enough
that it may not matter.
~~~
antisthenes
> Here is my conclusion: As long as your layout is a reasonably useable layout
> (which all of the above are), it doesn't matter. If your speed increases, it
> has nothing to do with the layout. It is because by switching your layout,
> you are forcing your brain to re-train, and in the process are eliminating
> bad habits, and increasing your focus on speed and accuracy.
I think anyone with a bit of common sense will conclude the same thing.
Because every time you switch you are specifically focusing on speed and
accuracy improvements, but even if you never switched layouts and put in the
same amount of time training your typing skills, you would have seen
improvements over your baseline. Maybe not as much as when switching layouts,
however.
These issues are also not common. I don't have the hard numbers about how many
people train their typing skills specifically, but my suspicion is that it is
a astonishingly small fraction of people who use computers. The people who go
so far as to switch layouts in pursuit of typing skill specifically are likely
an even smaller subset.
~~~
teilo
I agree. Those who insist that one (reasonable) layout is sufficiently better
than another enough to bother switching are suffering from confirmation bias.
As far as switching layouts in pursuit of an improvement, I imagine this
depends upon the person. In my case, at least, the repeated switching forced a
complete break. I could not easily fall into bad habits because I was exerting
so much effort just in retraining my finger memory. In this regard it may be
more of a brain hack.
------
creeble
I believe the article contains a factual error about the qwerty keyboard not
existing until Remington had bought the patent.
The earliest commercial Sholes and Glidden Type-Writer (one that you could
actually buy) had a qwerty keyboard [1].
It has been said that Sholes used this arrangement because one can type the
word "typewriter" without leaving the top row; I.e. for salesman demonstration
purposes.
[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholes_and_Glidden_typewrite...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholes_and_Glidden_typewriter)
Edit: erm, the Wikipedia article also states that the typewriter "as presented
to Remington" did have "." where "R" is in qwerty. I do believe that Sholes
and Glidden were already selling typewriters with this change, however.
------
AznHisoka
because it works, and changing to somethig marginally better is not worth it
if you have to relearn the keys for even a few days.
~~~
melling
Plenty of people suffer from RSI from long uses of the keyboard and mouse:
[http://www.looknohands.me](http://www.looknohands.me)
[https://medium.com/@benjiwheeler/what-to-do-when-typing-
hurt...](https://medium.com/@benjiwheeler/what-to-do-when-typing-
hurts-e0ac3456a712)
[https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/11/18/rsi-
solution/](https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/11/18/rsi-solution/)
Most alternate keyboard layouts (e.g. Colemak, Dvorak, etc) require a lot less
hand movement, which might prevent RSI.
[http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-
analyzer/#/load/FFv3m625](http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-
analyzer/#/load/FFv3m625)
~~~
fleetfox
I have large hands and having both hands on home row is actually uncomfortable
(more strain)
~~~
wbolster
perhaps you should give a split keyboard a try.
------
woliveirajr
We use it because it's used.
What advantage would you have if you just changed it? Every computer you were
about to use would have a different layout. QWERTY is good enough. Replacing
all keyboards won't happen at same time, and every time you need to replace
one keyboard, you'll go with one that is similar to your
home/work/university/notebook/virtual ipad/cellphone keyboard, that are all...
qwerty.
Change all keyboards that you use at once, and a new candidate is born. Change
just one each time, and keep the same.
~~~
garrettgrimsley
I type in Dvorak and the QWERTY cellphone keyboard hasn't been an issue for me
because I rely on a different muscle memory for typing with thumbs then for
touch typing on a hardware keyboard. Only my IBM Model M at home has been
rearranged because the key-caps are removable. Both my work keyboard and
laptop keyboard are still in QWERTY, but it isn't an issue because I touch
type. But I agree, we use QWERTY because it's what is familiar.
------
guest2143
I switched to Dvorak because of wrist pain. It worked. Of course, that result
is confounded with slowing down to learn to type on a new keyboard. That said,
I have not had the pain come back.
If you're interested it typing speed, look at plover:
[http://www.openstenoproject.org/](http://www.openstenoproject.org/) over 200
words per minute should be achievable. (I've only met users, never tried it
myself. I was amazed at their speed.)
I've never found speed to be my issue, YMMV.
------
woliveirajr
Let's not forget that every idiom has their most used keys and so on, so even
if another keyboard layout is "better", it doesn't mean it'll be faster
worldwide.
------
docdeek
After learning to touch type in Australia as a high school student on QWERTY I
was thrown for a loop when I arrived in France and found myself face to face
with AZERTY. Didn’t take a long time to figure out and now, ten years later, a
QWERTY keyboard has me staring at the keyboard and picking at keys like a
hungry bird. The shift key for numbers? Totally natural. Shift key for the
period? Also natural now.
If you like your keyboard, keep it - but the switch is always a pain.
------
module0000
> Why do we all still use Qwerty keyboards?
The same reason stoplights are red: inertia.
In the 5th grade, we had typing class, and we got to use both qwerty and
dvorak. This was some time ago, but even then, we were told that qwerty was
the present and the future, and dvorak was rare and on the way out. Basically,
at a young age we are told what to use, and trained to use it - the rest is
history.
------
SadWebDeveloper
When i was a young developer, i used to hear that using "Dvorak" was better
for everything including software development but after 2 months with it, it
became a PITA so i abandon the whole idea of changing keyboard layouts.
------
ErikVandeWater
If you're thinking of switching to Dvorak, perhaps don't. I switched at the
age of 20 and I don't think there was enough of a benefit to it. Too much
muscle memory gets locked when you are young.
------
Vampires123432
Let's not speak English anymore because there's more efficient languages.
No?
Ok. Long live QWERTY.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My Summer of Snowden - ForHackernews
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/edward-snowden-operation-firstfruits/610573/
======
ACS_Solver
Fascinating article, well worth reading for those who have been following the
Snowden story and (US) government surveillance in general.
It's interesting to read about the lengths to which journalists go to maintain
proper information security. Layers of encryption, safes for hardware,
physical removal of wireless chips, and so on. I'm curious as to whether all
of that is anything more than a mild annoyance to the NSA or other major
intelligence agencies, but I imagine they can hack into those computers with
relative ease. There's just no viable way of preventing tempest attacks
against your home or office, of preventing surveillance through vents, and
more.
One thing about Snowden specifically, he's understandably careful about
protecting the secrecy of his residence, but I'd be really surprised if the US
government didn't know where he lives. Snowden lives in Moscow, legally, is
known to move around the city, he uses the Internet, he's not just holed up in
some cave. Between all the CIA people in Moscow and the NSA's near limitless
capabilities, Snowden's whereabouts are almost surely known - he's being kept
safe by the fact that Moscow is Moscow.
~~~
boomboomsubban
>One thing about Snowden specifically, he's understandably careful about
protecting the secrecy of his residence. I'd be really surprised if the US
government didn't know where he lives
I agree with that, but it's reasonable to assume other countries would have
some interest in him. His international value has likely dropped by now, but
I'm sure many agencies wondered what else he might have.
------
polytely
>"He resisted questioning about his private life, but he allowed that he
missed small things from home. Milkshakes, for one. Why not make your own?
Snowden refused to confirm or deny possession of a blender. Like all
appliances, blenders have an electrical signature when switched on. He
believed that the U.S. government was trying to discover where he lived. He
did not wish to offer clues, electromagnetic or otherwise. U.S. intelligence
agencies had closely studied electrical emissions when scouting Osama bin
Laden’s hideout in Pakistan."
This reminds me of one of the discussion threads that was happening here last
week [0] where people were speculating about the next generation of spy
satellites.
[0]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23151301](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23151301)
~~~
barbegal
Has anyone got a citation for "U.S. intelligence agencies had closely studied
electrical emissions when scouting Osama bin Laden’s hideout in Pakistan"
Being very liberal with the truth, using a radio scanner could be classed as
"closely studying electrical emissions".
Firstly, to get a blender's electrical signature you'd need to be pretty close
to the blender, even along the transmission line. And I think it would be
tough to tell one person's blender motor from any other cheap motor powering
kitchen gadgetry in the local area.
~~~
polytely
A cursory duckduckgo reveals: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-
security/to-hu...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/to-
hunt-osama-bin-laden-satellites-watched-over-abbottabad-pakistan-and-navy-
seals/2013/08/29/8d32c1d6-10d5-11e3-b4cb-fd7ce041d814_story.html)
which in turn links to: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-
security/cia-f...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-
flew-stealth-drones-into-pakistan-to-monitor-bin-laden-
house/2011/05/13/AF5dW55G_story.html)
Which talks specifically about the RQ-170 Sentinel monitoring electronic
transmissions in the area, so it might be conflating the two?
The information about the Sentinel comes out of this leaked black budget:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-
security/black...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-
security/black-budget-summary-details-us-spy-networks-successes-failures-and-
objectives/2013/08/29/7e57bb78-10ab-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html)
If I recall correctly Bin Laden mostly used couriers to transmit information
and didn't use much tech because they were well aware that it would be a huge
security risk.
This Intercept article based on leaked internal NSA newsletters has a lot of
juicy details: [https://theintercept.com/2015/05/18/snowden-osama-bin-
laden-...](https://theintercept.com/2015/05/18/snowden-osama-bin-laden-raid/)
------
MiroF
> On the Gmail page, a pink alert bar appeared at the top, reading, “Warning:
> We believe state-sponsored attackers may be attempting to compromise your
> account or computer. Protect yourself now.”
Fascinating that Google does this. How do they know?
~~~
barbegal
They won't tell us according to
[https://security.googleblog.com/2012/06/security-warnings-
fo...](https://security.googleblog.com/2012/06/security-warnings-for-
suspected-state.html)
And I doubt they display this warning any more, it seems like it was a bit of
a publicity stunt back in 2012.
------
secfirstmd
The complexity of the amount of security measures a modern day journalist
needs to take to manage the digital, physical and operational of themselves
and their sources is immense. It's why we built Umbrella App
([https://www.secfirst.org](https://www.secfirst.org), so they could have one
simple location, open source, open content that they could quickly reference
on a phone.
------
boomboomsubban
I've quite often seen people claim Russia and/or China had full copies of the
Snowden documents, and try to use that to accuse him of being a foreign agent.
It's interesting to see a high ranking NSA employee say the journalist were
likely the unwitting source.
~~~
mindslight
If you're referring to this:
> _" My take is, whatever you guys had was pretty immediately in the hands of
> any foreign intelligence service that wanted it," he said, "whether it was
> Russians, Chinese, French, the Israelis, the Brits. Between you, Poitras,
> and Greenwald, pretty sure you guys can’t stand up to a full-fledged nation-
> state attempt to exploit your IT. To include not just remote stuff, but
> hands-on, sneak-into-your-house-at-night kind of stuff. That’s my guess."_
It's unsubstantiated chest thumping. "You're acting irresponsibly because
you're vulnerable without our protection, which you don't have because you
went against us". It completely brushes aside the idea that if these agencies
weren't acting as domestic enemies in the first place, whistleblowers and
journalists wouldn't be adversaries.
~~~
boomboomsubban
> It completely brushes aside the idea that if these agencies weren't acting
> as domestic enemies in the first place, whistleblowers and journalists
> wouldn't be adversaries
Even if the NSA wasn't treating them like domestic enemies, all of those other
countries would likely want their own copy of the complete leak. And the rest
of the article shows other agencies arw probably capable of such acts.
~~~
mindslight
The motive is there, but the evidence is not. For all we know, the mysterious
device behavior could have been the NSA itself, if only trying to delete any
files that were on insecure devices. It obviously could be foreign actors too,
but there is nothing in the empty NSA statement to inform that possibility.
The best way to view such a statement is simple misdirection / public
relations.
~~~
boomboomsubban
I'm unsure of what mysterious device behavior you are talking about, and I
don't see the point of running such a misdirection years after the fact
accomplishes.
My only point was that even the Chinese/Russian copy some people claim exist
still wouldn't mean Snowden gave it to them.
------
fomine3
Cool story.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Graph visualization with gradient descent, anything suggestions to improve? - mr23
http://g23.co/visualize.html
======
equark
You could increase the speed and stability by adding a drag force and using
the Barnes-Hut approximation. See:
<http://vis.stanford.edu/protovis/ex/force.html>
[http://vis.stanford.edu/protovis/jsdoc/symbols/pv.Layout.For...](http://vis.stanford.edu/protovis/jsdoc/symbols/pv.Layout.Force.html)
Implements force-directed network layout as a node-link diagram. This layout
uses the Fruchterman-Reingold algorithm, which applies an attractive spring
force between neighboring nodes, and a repulsive electrical charge force
between all nodes. An additional drag force improves stability of the
simulation. See pv.Force.spring, pv.Force.drag and {@link pv.Force.charge} for
more details; note that the n-body charge force is approximated using the
Barnes-Hut algorithm.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to host and manage static sites (of unlimited size) for free on Github - maxogden
https://github.com/maxogden/gh-pages-template
======
kecebongsoft
I had a problem with Github user pages for the past few months: It stopped
building.
At first I was more than happy that for every commits, I can see the changes
immediately, but after few days, it just keep showing the old build. I even
started a fresh new accounts and setup a new user page, same thing happened. I
tried many things to make it work, adding/removing CNAME, changing the page
content, even waiting for few days, no luck. Tried to contact the Github team
(via Twitter and the Contact Us page), no respond.
Now I am using my shared VPS to host a static site, waiting for some good news
about build reliability, until then I wouldn't recommend using Github user
pages.
Oh and by the way, if you set a CNAME, you wouldn't be able to access your
project pages without adding it as a submodule into your user page.
~~~
pyre
I put up a static page a couple of weeks ago with no issue. Granted, I'm not
using Jekyll and just generating the static files on my own locally before
committing / pushing.
~~~
kecebongsoft
I'm using Pelican as a static blog engine, had no issue at first, this
happened after the number of commit grow.
------
nthitz
I wonder if people start abusing this if Github were to put any restrictions
on it somehow. For quick one off single page things sure why not, but if
people start trying to host huge websites on Github? I'd be curious as to
their response.
~~~
activepeanut
Yeah, this is ripe for abuse by pornographers. :(
~~~
nthitz
Really? Care to expand? That just surprises me!
~~~
apricot13
I'd imagine the bandwidth for a porn site is huge, imagine having all that
bandwidth dealt with by someone else for free! plus the porn industry tends to
get in on new technologies early so Id be surprised if there isn't some
somewhere.
Unrelated to porn this sort of thing could be great in general as all the
content is searchable it would be a goldmine for information on how to use a
function or do some specific action. I already use git as a codex of sorts!
------
hunvreus
Great for hosting documentation, blogs, brochure sites or simple static
clients: push your API code on master and other branches and have your static
client to consume from the API on the gh-pages branch.
Be careful though, __if you push something on gh-pages it will be public, even
if your repo is private __.
From what the guys at Github told me, they don't have to restrict their users
as long as you don't commit obvious abuses. Either very large files or
gigantic amount of files, which will both create issues with Git. In short,
"don't be a dick".
------
simon_weber
Github pages is a fantastic service. I use it as an automatic archive for a
daily mailing list: <https://github.com/simon-weber/the-listserve-archive>.
Basically, Github is my free host, database and api.
------
reidrac
OT, but I'd love to know what HN think about this:
The license part of the README.md says "The content in this repo is BSD
licensed".
AFAIK licensing requires:
\- A copyright line with the year (or years) and the name of the copyright
holder.
\- IIRC a way to contact the copyright holder is required (email, URL, etc),
but I may be wrong and it's just optional.
\- A copy of the license grant/notice is required, ie. the "boilerplate
notice" form Apache license that includes a link to the full license text.
In this case, does the "The content in this repo is BSD licensed" sentence
have any kind of effect?
EDIT: ate a word, formatting
~~~
advisedwang
(IANAL, most familiar with UK rules)
Generally a author has copyright over their works without having to explicitly
says so. Saying "Copyright (c) YYYY AUTHOR NAME" is just a way of asserting it
to remove potential confusion or ambiguity.
With no licensing, there is no right to use a copyright work (except fair
use). BSD licensing a work is _granting_ permission is a set of circumstances,
not revoking permission. Thus if a license is not correctly applied the work
cannot be used, rather than the inverse.
As for "The content in this repo is BSD licensed" - the usual licensing
wording is again a convention designed to be as clear as possible, but the
wording applied there probably counts as it pretty clearly intends to give
permission. The "probably" is why people ought to stick to known and
understood conventions.
------
nnq
...if you give something for free and don't set limits, people will find ways
to abuse it ...and then you'll have limits for everyone ... _I ask all web
developers out there to not use Github pages for clients' websites_ , it's not
like you don't have room in the budget for almost-free webhosting for static
websites, it's probably something like 0.(...)1% of website maintenance and
dev costs and there already are free blog hosting services. use github for
_your_ website/blog, _you family's_ , _your pet's_ , but _not for your
clients'_ , please...
~~~
jwdunne
A lot of clients are actually willing to pay for you to host their site, just
as long as they don't have to do anything technical. We're talking £350 for a
year in a lot of cases and the site could simply be an addon domain on a
package with a few sites on it. This also includes a walk through of setting
up emails on Outlook, iPhone or what have you.
They just don't care because you end up doing something that takes you 5
minutes and little to no energy which would be next to impossible for them.
Since the margins are so high, you also have freedom to make nice discounts
without a loss.
------
nvr219
I miss Geocities
~~~
simonsarris
You know what? Me too. I miss Geocities and I never realized until just now.
That was a great internet. The people's internet. I was 13 years old but I was
allowed to make a website for free, with no help or direction from parents or
teachers or anyone, with barely anything to learn.
And when I was done it was _there._ It was a thing I made on the internet and
I could show anyone. And I did, and it was probably embarrassingly bad, but
that's not the point.
I think more than anything in my career, services like Geocities inspired me.
_See the internet? You can make it. You can do this stuff. It's not that
hard._
Nobody else in my life told me that. Nobody explained to me that creating
things on a computer _wasn't magic_ , and if I wasn't enticed with such an
easy website creator I may have never known.
What do I give my kids? What do I give my little cousins, right now, at the
age of 10, that even comes close?
\---
Looking around there seem to be a few, but they're all so template-centric
that I wonder if I'd feel the same way if I had them back then.
~~~
oceanic
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once.
I remember getting on Geocities in 1996 and finding a burgeoning community,
full of randomness and fun, all learning as we went along about how build
websites. I remember mine was in the “Bourbon Street” “neighbourhood”.
I had a lot of fun that year, messing about on IRC, learning HTML, building
(ugly :-) websites, helping others do the same. Can't believe I sound
nostalgic about that place.
I think I'll set up my daughter (nearly 9, already has her own domain) with a
GitHub account, and set up Pages so she can play with HTML, CSS and stuff.
~~~
nvr219
Same here. I remember in '97 my grandma bought me a Geocities "plus" (or
whatever it was called) account so I could have a geocities.com/~username
vanity address. All my real life nerd friends were so jealous of me. :-)
Having free home pages on Geocities did a lot for my career. What will my son
gain from whatever "social" web site is around when he starts using a computer
(and yeah he also already has his own domain name)?
------
aGHz
Seems like a good place to link to "Poll: What's your favorite static site
generator?"[1] submitted a few days ago. The most interesting notion to take
away is that, for all the buzz surrounding static site generators like Jekyll
and Pelican, you can actually accomplish the same goal using absolutely any
backend you're comfortable with. As long as your output doesn't contain
anything dynamic, you can even use frameworks like Django or Rails then pair
this with a spider (e.g. wget) to pull all the dynamically-_generated_ output
into a static snapshot that you then upload to GitHub.
[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4857473>
------
jimmytttt
_What it isn't: a dynamic host -- so it can't do PHP/Rails/Node etc._
Seems like a good opportunity for sever-less folks like WebScript.io or
Firebase to jump in and help.
------
redidas
Is the ability to use custom domains free now? In the past I thought you had
to be under one of the paid github plans.
Oddly enough, I don't see any mention of this in the github article explaining
how to set up a custom domain: [https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-a-
custom-domain-...](https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-a-custom-
domain-with-pages)
~~~
pearkes
In the root of your repo on the gh-pages branch:
echo example.com > CNAME
Then point it (if apex) at 207.97.227.245.
------
nodrew
You can also create a static file blog with Jekyll
<https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll>.
Pretty awesome and simple.
------
nachteilig
Does one have to make the _yourusername_.github.com repo first for this to
work? My understanding is that the Pages feature is only activated by doing
this.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Am I the only one that prefers the stripped down Gizmodo 'emergency' site? - annon
http://updates.gizmodo.com
======
annon
Their normal site has become so difficult to navigate, logo overhanging on
videos, slow javascript/rendering, etc.
I've visited the basic tumblr site much more than I would normally visit their
site.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Anandtech: AMD Radeon HD 7970 Review (28nm, new architecture) - zdw
http://www.anandtech.com/print/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review
======
gcp
I wish someone would make an explanation of the current NVIDIA and AMD
architectures with the terms used translated to their CPU equivalents, instead
of the current half-marketing-speak which uses similar terms for different
things between the two vendors.
I'm finding it exceedingly hard to make any guess whether certain algorithms
are worth trying to port over or not, because the explanations are almost
incomprehensible.
To give an example, the VLIW->SIMD unit transition in this architecture
compared to NVIDIA's scalar units.
As far as I understand the VLIW vs SIMD difference, a VLIW instruction is more
powerful compared to SIMD because one "long instruction" can contain different
operations on different data. Whereas SIMD is the same operation on multiple
data.
Traditionally, VLIW was entirely statically scheduled, which put all the
burden on the compiler. Because graphics cards recompile all shaders anyway,
it's not a bad fit.
So, now AMD changed their units from 16x4 VLIW to groups of 16xSIMD engines.
The advantage here is that you no longer have to have groups of 64 similar ALU
operations, but can do with groups of 16 similar ALU operations. Conversely,
there should be more of such groups, i.e. more control logic compared to the
old design. To top that off, there's improvements that allow one to schedule
multiple threads over the GPU at once.
Am I on the right track here?
If I am, whats the minimum amount of identical operations that you must do to
achieve reasonable throughput? 16 identical operations for 100% efficiency?
Put differently, if I have code that requires different operations (due to
branches, i.e. effectively conditional operations) on each computation stream
that I'm pulling through, what factors are going to limit the effective speed
I get out of this?
~~~
DiabloD3
VLIW merely means instructions are setup in blocks with clearly defined starts
and ends (AMD calls these blocks 'clauses'). This technique is also called
MIMD (multiple instruction multiple data, as opposed to SIMD, single
instruction multiple data).
VLIW exists to exploit very wide instruction parallelism while clearly
delineating what instructions have dependencies on other instructions, and (at
least on the Radeon) usually end on a memory write or a complex branch.
Radeon clauses are up to 128 instructions long, and manage 5 ALUs (on 4xxx,
5xxx, and 68xx, 4 of them identical, 1 of them being able to do double
precision math and transcendentals), or 4 ALUs (on 69xx, all 4 identical and
does not require a specialized ALU for DP and T).
The compiler optimizes dependency flow and ALU usage, instead of requiring
dedicated hardware common in CPU design. This means far less silicon is
dedicated to the task, and instruction scheduling is far more predictable and
optimized.
Your suggestion that AMD used 16 ALUs per pipe under VLIW is wrong, The change
is 4/5 VLIW ALUs to 16 ALUs that now can execute SIMD instructions. The
compute units (the head end that synchronizes multiple pipes to perform one
task in parallel) still use VLIW-like clauses to synchronize pipe usage.
Your suggestion that this new arch allows you to schedule multiple threads on
the GPU at once is nonsensical: the correct term for pipe is "hardware
thread", on a GPU like 5870 you have 320 hardware threads (1600 ALUs), you
already schedule all of them at the same time for massively parallel
execution.
What has changed is the CUs now support running clauses from different shaders
at the same time by using some CU on one task, and some on another, and I
believe it may also be able to have clauses from different shaders loaded at
the same time and switch without overhead; on VLIW Radeons, shader change out
has a high context switch penalty.
The only thing the new GCN arch really does is allow the ALUs to operate on
SIMD instructions which allows higher instruction packing. This does not mean
they do not use VLIW-like clauses, and it doesn't mean it is like Nvidia's
design (which the media keeps repeating).
Nvidia's ALUs are free form stream processors, and do not have a clear
beginning or end to each clause (as the hardware does not exploit hardware
thread synchronization), they frequently suffer from cache misses and pipeline
stalls, and they cannot easily exploit instruction level parallelism.
In addition, Nvidia does not exploit deep pipelining. On VLIW Radeons, the
instruction pipeline is multistaged and 4 instructions deep, so by the time
you are submitting the 5th instruction you are getting the results from the
first and instructions 2, 3, and 4 are still being processed. This allows much
easier synchronization between ALUs since they all read/write to the same set
of registers.
The addition of SIMD instructions to this design allows much higher data
throughput and much higher instruction packing; instead of executing, say, two
Bitcoin hashes per VLIW4/5 group, each instruction winding around the group
for maximum ALU efficiency, you can run 4 (or however many GCN uses for SIMD,
most likely 4 or 8) hashes at the same time as a SIMD operation and not
require complex compiler maneuvering to do a clearly instruction parallel
operation (thus 16x4 hashes per group).
Now, ultimately, nothing of what I've written actually matters. OpenCL is a
black box on purpose, it doesn't matter how the implementation executes it as
long as it does so correctly and efficiently. AMD is betting that GCN is more
efficient for the given silicon real estate.
~~~
Tuna-Fish
> Your suggestion that AMD used 16 ALUs per pipe under VLIW is wrong, The
> change is 4/5 VLIW ALUs to 16 ALUs that now can execute SIMD instructions.
Actually, the previous architecture was a setup of 16x simd, where each of the
simd operations was a 5/4 wide vliw. So calling that 320 hardware threads is
wrong -- in Cypress there really was only 20 front-ends which drove these
bundles of 80 alus in groups of 5x16. Also, it was a 4-long barrel processor,
so you had to schedule a SIMD "wavefront" of 64 "threads" for each unit.
In the new version each CU still has 4x16 ALUS like it had in Cayman, but now
each of the 4 simd units of 16 elements can be scheduled independently by a
different hardware thread.
~~~
DiabloD3
There are 20 CUs, but it controls multiple sets of VLIW5/4 in parallel. AMD
claims 1600 ALUs on the 5870, so 1600/5 = 320. I'm not sure how they are are
factoring in the 4 deep pipeline for the barrel, but I'm pretty sure it
doesn't mean there is only 80 actual ALUs.
The R700 Programming Manual seems to indicate my interpretation is correct,
although if you can provide evidence that I'm misinterpreting it, I'm all
ears.
~~~
Tuna-Fish
There are 1600 Alus, but they are grouped in vliws of 5 elements, which are
grouped in simd groups of 16 vliws. So there are 20 front ends, and reading a
single bundle in one of them will instantly make 80 alus execute an
instruction.
The barrel is essentially used to extend the vector registers from 16-elem to
64-elem, and a 64 "thread" wavefront, consisting of 5 VLIW'd instructions is
essentially the smallest amount of work that R700 can do.
------
unwind
When describing the (quite interesting, and well-described) "partially
resident textures" technology, which is in turn inspired by John Carmack's
MegaTexture technology, the review states:
_For AMD’s technology each tile will be 64KB, which for an uncompressed 32bit
texture would be enough room for a 4K x 4K chunk._
Isn't this off by a factor of 1,000? 4K x 4K is 16M texels, which at 32 bits
per texel would require 64 MB. A chunk of 64 KB cannot hold that. They repeat
the "64KB" value for the chunk size many times, not sure in what direction
they're wrong, really. I guess if I kept up more with graphics tech, the
answer would be obvious. :)
~~~
Retric
4kx4k pixels is a higher resolution than all but the most extreme gaming
system can display (ignoring the fact textures are wrapped around 3d objects).
So, I think the idea is 64KB chunks out of an arbitrary image that could in
theory be 64 MB. AKA, you get to have 1,000 of those chunks for your 4kx4k
image some of which are loaded into memory.
~~~
VoxelBoy
4kx4k textures can easily be displayed even on my Macbook Pro's 9400M card. It
does cost a high amount of memory; depending on if and how it's compressed, if
it has mipmaps, if it contains an alpha channel etc. it can be anywhere
between ~16 and ~64 MBs, but is very doable.
~~~
onemoreact
Yea, but how many of those 16million pixels can be map'd to the display.
A: Not all that many which is why breaking that up into smaller chunks an
enabling a virtual 4k texture without compression is a good idea.
------
Natsu
With all those benchmarks out there already, I wonder if they'll ever start
using BitCoin mining as one?
~~~
DuncanIdaho
That would be hard to do and pretty pointless.
Do not forget that mining bitcoins becomes progressively harder with time.
Thus to get any sort of meaningful reviews, they would have to review whole
field of graphic cards each time a new one comes out.
Not feasible.
Edit: Ok, so I don't know anything about Bitcoin mining, thanks for
clarifications.
~~~
jl6
No, there is a very simple, well-defined and difficulty-independent metric of
Bitcoin mining performance: hashes per second.
------
jvoorhis
I'm curious about the larger memory bus width. GPUs are still considered sub-
par for real-time audio applications because of the memory bottleneck, despite
their numerical computing power.
~~~
barrkel
I expect that's down to latency rather than throughput. Back in the day, I
recall some people working with audio preferring ISA sound cards to PCI sound
cards, because the latency was worse with PCI; but PCI has orders of magnitude
more bandwidth.
~~~
sliverstorm
It would be unsurprising if latency were the issue. Think about it- a GPU with
a turnaround time of 1/60th of a second is plenty fast for any standard
monitor.
~~~
vilya
Only if you're uploading data to it just once per frame. And you're not doing
stereo.
~~~
sliverstorm
Sure, 1/60th of a second may not be the exact right number, but the point is,
I would think that traditionally a GPU designer wouldn't exactly have a tight
latency budget.
Even if you're in stereo (1/120) and you write a new image to the buffer 100
times per frame (1/12000) that still gives you 40,000 cycles on a 500MHz
clock.
------
ashwinurao
I am surprised 6990 outperforms this card in so many tests!
~~~
woadwarrior01
It shouldn't really be surprising. A 6990 is essentially two 6970s on the same
board. We'll probably have to wait for a 7990 to have a fair comparison.
~~~
DiabloD3
It is two underclocked 6970s, Two 6970s in Crossfire are approximately 6%
faster than a 6990, or 20% faster than than two 6950s.
------
zeratul
Nowadays the graphics cards are so fast that neither games nor APIs can keep
up.
No really, when we will get something as simple as OpenMP to do our data
mining on GPUs? There is more data to be processed than there are games to
play.
~~~
mrb
What do you mean APIs cannot keep up? It is perfectly possible to write a
GPGPU app that utilizes practically all the resources, eg. Bitcoin miners,
which use the OpenCL API, have a typical ALU utilization ratio of ~95%+.
~~~
DiabloD3
Closer to 98%+ on DiabloMiner or newest phatk2 (now that phateus finally
decided to catch up).
------
DiabloD3
In before Bitcoin mining comment
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Startup Reading List - sweetdee
http://simplifilm.com/startup-reading-list/
======
rxl
This list, compiled by Chris Johnson, includes a book called "Trust Me, I'm
Lying", by Ryan Holiday.
One thing to note is that Chris worked with Ryan and has a close relationship
with him (Chris actually wrote the trailer for Ryan's book).
And judging from Ryan's usual tactics, Chris wrote this list simply to push
Ryan's book, which he cleverly included alongside clear classics like The Lean
Startup, In The Plex, and The Innovator's Dilemma.
Edit: Here are some other tactics cleverly used by Chris/Ryan in the post...
1) they mentioned Ryan Holiday in the first couple paragraphs so that the
reader would have some familiarity with his name and be even more likely to
click through to his book
2) they included Ryan's book early in the list but not as the first, and
specifically after at least one book that you probably haven't heard of, but
that seems credible
3) they marked The Innovator's Dilemma (arguably the most well known book in
the list) as "optional," leading one to perceive that the other books in the
list that aren't marked as optional must be even better
Edit: evidence for Chris and Ryan's relationship...
[https://www.google.com/search?q=chris+johnson+ryan+holiday](https://www.google.com/search?q=chris+johnson+ryan+holiday)
~~~
simplimedia
I sure wish I was this clever.
~~~
rxl
Perhaps, but unlikely. And regardless, I know Ryan is.
Also, yes, I realize that bad press is good press and that this controversy
will probably drive Ryan even more sales, just by virtue of the fact that more
people are talking about his book than would have otherwise. And I don't
really care either way, I'd just prefer that people be in the know.
~~~
simplimedia
So but for you, the folks that read Hacker News would have been fooled by my
ruse.
------
davidw
I was not really impressed by Ries' book. I don't feel I got much that was
actually practical or useful out of it that I hadn't already gleaned from
blogs or sites like HN. It seems more like a high level look at what "lean"
is.
The book that continues to be the one that has given me the most practical
value is "Start Small, Stay Small":
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003YH9MMI/?tag=dedasys-20](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003YH9MMI/?tag=dedasys-20)
It is not a "classic" \- twenty years from now some of it will look really
dated, but right now it has got lots of great advice for someone trying to
bootstrap a small business.
One bit of advice from someone who is very much a reader is that sometimes,
yes, books can give you good advice, but you've got to take the time to go out
and _do_ as well. Lots of stuff you read won't completely make sense until you
try and put it in practice.
I publish my own reviews here, although I just mix everything up, so they are
not startup specific:
[http://davids-book-reviews.blogspot.com/](http://davids-book-
reviews.blogspot.com/)
The Fremont one was fascinating - that guy really got around and happened to
be in a number of right places at the right times.
~~~
simplimedia
And FYI - this was a list made for AEs to be able to talk to engineers more
quickly and fluently.
------
beambot
YC maintains a pretty solid list:
[http://ycombinator.com/lib.html](http://ycombinator.com/lib.html)
~~~
doublemorph
It's a pretty large reading list though, would be nice to have a list of the
top three to five.
~~~
devcpp
Most of these are essays, which together would make up perhaps one of two
books. Together with the 4 books listed in the books section of that page, I'd
say you have a decent short list.
------
petercooper
I look forward to giving some of these a crack! One I wanted to recommend
though, which isn't on the list, is _Ready, Fire, Aim_ by _Michael Masterson_.
It had a big impact on me in the early days and had me thinking about minimal
viable products (and businesses) before that was a thing of its own.
~~~
simplimedia
Thanks. It seems we will need to do a second post.
~~~
ak39
Just got this: [http://www.builttosell.com/](http://www.builttosell.com/) by
John Warrillow.
How did I hear of him? My copreneur and I were discussing the idea of giving
shares to our sole employee as performance incentive. She didn't like the idea
from the beginning and googled for "real" reasons. :-) She found John
Warrillow. This podcast sobered me up a bit:
[http://www.startupnation.com/podcasts/episodes/9565/equity-f...](http://www.startupnation.com/podcasts/episodes/9565/equity-
for-employees.htm)
~~~
davidw
That's a pretty good book, although in some ways it recapitulates a lot of
this one:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/0887307280/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=de...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0887307280/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=dedasys-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=0887307280&adid=1CWHFZ38E5E6EXSR7XXZ&)
Here's my summary of Built to Sell, fwiw:
[http://journal.dedasys.com/2011/05/23/summary-built-to-
sell-...](http://journal.dedasys.com/2011/05/23/summary-built-to-sell-
creating-a-business-that-can-thrive-without-you)
------
liquidcool
I liked Guy Kawasaki's "The Art of the Start" ([http://www.amazon.com/Art-
Start-Time-Tested-Battle-Hardened-...](http://www.amazon.com/Art-Start-Time-
Tested-Battle-Hardened-Starting/dp/1591840562/)) because every time I picked
it up, it motivated me to put it down and get back to work.
I am kind of surprised to see Steve Blank's "The Four Steps to the Epiphany"
([http://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Steve-
Blank/dp/098...](http://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Steve-
Blank/dp/0989200507)) omitted. Is that one that everyone mentions, but nobody
reads?
~~~
paul_f
Steve's new book The Startup Owner's Manual being left off this list is
criminal.
~~~
simplimedia
Haven't read it - but I bought it, thanks.
------
djkz
Personally I've also found that I like to mix a little psychology books into
my business readings, here are a couple that I personally liked: Influence -
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BD2UUC/ref=kinw_myk_ro_...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BD2UUC/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title)
and What every BODY is saying -
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010SKSTO/ref=docs-os-
doi_...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010SKSTO/ref=docs-os-doi_0)
------
paulrademacher
> Once You’re Lucky, Twice You’re Good: Sarah Lacy |Link | The lessons are
> hidden. Between the lines, it’ it’s THE example of how the Valley press
> thinks. Read it as an observer, don’t take it at face value, but rather try
> and learn what Sarah is about.
This is a great recommendation not just for entrepreneurs, but for _anyone_
wanting to learn what Sarah is about.
------
dudurocha
That's a overall very good list. My only problem with it, it's that, apart
from ocasional ones, only has books that were published since 2011. Where are
the classics? I don't think entrepreunership or leadership is something new
and you can just learn from the new books.
~~~
simplimedia
I mostly agree, I was trying to keep it contemporary.
------
banachtarski
There is this weird catch 22 where I always hear this book or that book or
this or that article is a "must read" for a startup founder. But on the flip
side, I also have no time to read it.
~~~
pc86
I never really understood this mentality. I haven't met anywhere, whether it's
a funded startup founder or the CEO of a Fortune 1k company, or a single
parent with a full-time job, who doesn't have 20 minutes somewhere they can
spend reading.
I can understand if the argument is that it's so far down the list of
priorities that by the time you get to it you'd rather just go to sleep. I get
that. But don't say you're too busy to do it, say it isn't enough of a
priority.
~~~
dbecker
As a matter of semantics, everyone has time.
But, as someone who sometimes reads the types of books recommended on this
blog post, I've found they have usually been a worse use of my time than
writing code.
So, "I don't have time for ___" could be rephrased as "there are better uses
of my time than ___." And I think that's a reasonable point of view in this
case.
------
Legion
Reading 24 books seems like an awful lot of time committed to doing something
other than actually making a product.
One of the books was marked optional, though, so there's that.
~~~
simplimedia
zing. (and yeah, you don't read the damn things cover to cover. Except for my
bondage and my freedom.)
~~~
joelhooks
We homeschool and that was the one off the list I bought immediately for my
kids.
------
stevoo
the links seems to be down ... you can view the cached version here
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Msq9KS...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Msq9KSqLU0J:simplifilm.com/startup-
reading-list/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk)
------
rpicard
I was just looking for a good list like this. Thanks.
------
lucian1900
Transparent top bar is very annoying :(
------
7mediaws
@beambot Thanks for the list.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Eulogy for Groklaw - cooldeal
http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Eulogy-for-Groklaw
======
FlorianMueller
The article talks a lot about Groklaw's decline and accurately concludes does
Groklaw must end now because otherwise it will slide into complete
irrelevance. I concur. It has become an echo chamber for a small group of
people, some of whom had a sectarian attitude.
------
cooldeal
Kind of mirrors my comment here on the previous story.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2428622>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Amazon Dash Button's Wireless Audio Configuration - mavci
http://www.blog.jay-greco.com/wp/?p=116
======
grogenaut
It doesn't work with android because of the wide variety of speakers and
microphones on android vs the very few for ios. Many android phones can't even
emit or record ultrasound.
~~~
NateyJay
I wonder why they didn't just fall back to audible sound. WiFi is okay, but
having to manually connect to the button's access point is fiddly, and
disconnects you from the real network.
Another solution is Electric Imp's BlinkUp, which encodes the WiFi information
in flashing light from the screen. Patented.
~~~
grogenaut
[http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2003/09/2886-2/](http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2003/09/2886-2/)
"Eight weeks later, the first public demonstration was given to the class by
using a simple ping packet. With a blinding 2bps speed, the class sat
patiently as the packet was received in roughly 140 seconds. "
That's why. Sound is a pretty slow wavelength. Low end is 60hz, lets call it
600hz tones in this bongo (I don't actually know). However ultra sound is at
20 kHz and above. Eg 33 times faster. 33x the data. Eg 140 seconds now takes
4.25 seconds. Lets assume the bongo was 10 too long. Now we're down to 14
seconds in audible and .42 seconds in ultrasound.
you can see the benefit.
and that's without actually doing a real data rate calculation becuase I don't
have a good number on how many waveforms you have to have on sound to pick up
a real signal. Somthing somthing nyquest criterion somthing somthing.
------
brian-armstrong
If anyone wants to play with an audio modem which can run ASK (PSK and QAM
too!) then try [https://github.com/quiet](https://github.com/quiet) which has
Android and JS bindings
End shameless plug :)
------
packetized
I'd be interested to know how much potential advertising data is collected via
these microphones.
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10562207](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10562207)
~~~
zwily
For these? Probably none. Their batteries would be depleted very quickly if
they were listening to the microphone more than at just setup.
~~~
packetized
Ah, very good point.
~~~
amelius
But of course, as technology matures, advertisers will go out of their way to
make use of it. That's one thing you can count on.
------
ec109685
Should Amazon have encrypted this transmission in some way or is the volume
low enough that a plain text transmission of the wifi password not pose a
threat?
~~~
tedmiston
This is definitely a valid concern if the plaintext transmission can be
recorded and played back and still be valid. Hopefully they've built-in some
kind of short expiration timestamp. That said, the speaker output from your
phone in your home isn't going so far that anyone else could pick it up
without being in your home at the time that you're configuring it.
------
icefox
Now the question is if there is a exploit in the rom and by crafting your own
audio you can make the device much more interesting.
~~~
freehunter
The easier, hacker way is to intercept the traffic with a proxy:
[https://medium.com/@edwardbenson/how-i-hacked-
amazon-s-5-wif...](https://medium.com/@edwardbenson/how-i-hacked-
amazon-s-5-wifi-button-to-track-baby-data-794214b0bdd8)
~~~
amelius
> Dash buttons are turned off most of the time to preserve the battery inside.
> They only turn on when you push them. And that means they have to re-connect
> to your Wifi network every time they are pushed. That’s easy to detect.
How do they know for sure? Perhaps they also connect every month for a
(status) update or for statistics, but this hacker just missed that.
I wouldn't use these buttons to launch any missiles :)
~~~
tedmiston
Curious if anyone knows how the Dash buttons handle when your wifi password
has changed since their last successful connect.
~~~
blacksmith_tb
I believe you have to use the mobile app to go through the Dash set up
procedure again if you change your local AP (or get a new one, etc.)
------
wrigby
I thought this was really cool, and you don't even need a Dash button to
repeat it (just the app). I threw a mic on my desk and recorded the output
real quick, and sure enough, it's pretty easy to see the waveform. I was going
to post the wav file, but without knowing a bit more about how the Dash links
to my Amazon account, I'm a bit hesitant.
I'm going to have a run at reproducing this in Python. Should be fun!
------
kylehotchkiss
incredible work, jay! I like how you described everything.
I think it's going to be interesting when the Amazon dash buttons end up
playing a role in next big DDOS...
------
jelder
I wonder how many tens of thousands of people have now unknowingly installed
internet-connected microphones in their kitchens, garages, laundry rooms, and
bathrooms.
~~~
freehunter
Well the Dash button has very little on-board storage, so it can't save much
voice. It also has a very limited battery, so it turns itself off unless the
button is pushed, and when the button is pushed it's only on long enough to
send a command to Amazon (not long enough to send saved voice data).
People complaining about things they didn't take five seconds to understand is
how FUD gets spread. Please don't contribute to this nonsense.
~~~
andrewstuart2
I don't think this qualifies as FUD, nor misinformation. If this is FUD, then
all of DefCon is also. This is simply pointing out the onboard capabilities of
a device people are indeed installing in their homes. Clearly this is a
microphone-enabled wifi-enabled device. State actors use passive bugs [1] with
vastly fewer internal capabilities, so I think it's foolish to discount the
possibility that it could be misused. Especially when it's so readily
available.
Given the use of passive bugs, it's pretty obvious that zero onboard storage
is required for a listening device to be useful to those with resources to
collect the information real-time. It's healthy to understand the inherent
trade-offs you're making by installing such a device, and make sure you can
monitor its usage appropriately if you choose to keep one in a place you
presume is reasonably private.
[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_\(listening_device\))
~~~
cmdrfred
The battery is the limitation here. Sure maybe you record for a day or two
even but it simply can't last longer than that.
~~~
freehunter
A Cortex M3 on a single AAA battery can only last a few hours without
sleeping. 3.3 volts at 200-300 mA with a 1200 mAh battery doesn't provide much
wiggle room.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What are some technical blogs you are reading regularly? - vchernobyl
And I really mean regularly. I have a few favorite blogs where I would read a post here and there, but nothing that really sticks (except Paul Graham's essays). Any recommendations?
======
zikzak
There's [https://www.schneier.com/blog/](https://www.schneier.com/blog/) which
is not probably not what you meant, exactly, and
[https://www.hanselman.com/blog/](https://www.hanselman.com/blog/) because I'm
a .net programmer. I mostly just come here for tech news and links to tech
blogs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Automatically calibrating a computer projector image - ranit8
http://dalpix.com/blog/automatically-calibrating-computer-projector-image
======
robert-boehnke
Reminds me of the work by Johnny Lee on projector calibration. His appears to
be a bit faster.
<http://johnnylee.net/projects/thesis/>
~~~
mmastrac
According to this page, it's related work:
"This project is an update on a previous rig I did in 2011. The original
project was inspired ("Reverse-engineered") from a paper published in 2004 by
Johnny Chung Lee"
------
apu
For a more technical description of the best algorithms to do this (and more
advanced compensation) automatically, see:
<http://www.cs.columbia.edu/CAVE/projects/pr_any/>
BTW, these algorithms have been well understood and described by the research
community for many years now. I think some companies targeting the high-end
segment have incorporated some of these techniques, but I'm not sure why it's
not filtered down into low-end consumer tech yet.
Actually, I think there's easily a startup or two in using your smartphone to
calibrate a projector. The math would only have to be slightly modified, and
if you could make this process seamless, it would be pretty cool.
------
hebejebelus
I almost don't see why this can't be realtime. I imagine from here, all you
need to do is throw more computing power at it? It's very cool. Imagine this
plus a head-mounted pico-projector - any scrap of paper or wall could become
an interface. Very excited about this technology.
~~~
siera
It can be done in real time. Here is a demonstration from Float4 Interactive :
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_YOTZ4MCuA>
------
barcoder
You might also be interested to see a tree projection mapped:
<http://www.kimchiandchips.com/littree.php>
------
joshu
Doesn't really need an active board. You could have a camera + projector and a
board with fiducal marks.
------
xxbondsxx
Really awesome technology, unfortunate soundtrack to the _entire_ video.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Another appeal from Jimmy Wales - enko
http://www.danwei.org/front_page_of_the_day/is_there_no_escape.php
======
mrr2
Considering the sheer breadth of knowledge Wikipedia makes available to the
public for free, I think we can all afford the millisecond it takes us to
scroll away from the banner ad. Better yet, I think we can all throw in some
money towards the project.
As for him being an ambassador to a watch company, its a pretty common concept
as most Swiss luxury watch makers support everyone from athletes to
humanitarians. Even if he makes money off of it, it isn't his obligation to
donate it all to Wikimedia. In fact I think its a pretty smart concept to
showcase Wikipedia to the type of clientele who might actually buy such
watches.
------
InfinityX0
Although mildly annoying, the appearances of these banner ads make me more
interested in whether or not Wikipedia is A/B testing these, whether they're
using some kind of intelligent segmentation, whether they even HAVE someone
knowledgeable of that on staff, and what the results thereof are.
~~~
rarestblog
[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2010/Banner_testi...](http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2010/Banner_testing)
------
ludwigvan
I expect FSF to follow suit with rms making a personal appeal:
<http://stallman.org/photos/rms-full-size.jpg>
------
aaronsw
Apparently he's an official sponsor (and they took that ridiculous photo for
him):
[http://www.mauricelacroix.com/en/Brand/Ambassadors/Jimmy_Wal...](http://www.mauricelacroix.com/en/Brand/Ambassadors/Jimmy_Wales.html)
How much is he getting paid and is he donating it to Wikimedia?
------
clojurerocks
The one thing i dont understand about wikipedia is didnt they ever hear of
videos and photos and things like that. Everytime i go to the site i feel like
i entered a portal to 1990. Its ugly beyond belief and actually difficult to
find proper information because of that.
------
xenophanes
Enough already. Jimmy Wales, former(?) serious Objectivist and Ayn Rand fan.
Now he's begging for charity regularly. Pathetic change.
~~~
wlievens
Really? Wikipedia is pathetic unless he starts charging for it?
~~~
xenophanes
A Randian begging for money is pathetic. He either did a 180 on his principles
or he's just ignoring them (exactly as Rand told people not to do).
And it's not like he wrote a paper explaining why it turns out Rand is wrong
after all.
I'm not the only one to think this:
[http://knol.google.com/k/why-ayn-rand-would-decry-jimmy-
wale...](http://knol.google.com/k/why-ayn-rand-would-decry-jimmy-wales-
wikipedia#)
------
markkat
I don't blame him. He has a celebrity asset. Seems reasonable to cash in.
------
jfb
Am I a bad person to want to punch Jimmy Wales in the junk after those
horrible "I look like Larry Ellison and I want your money" banner ads?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Swinging the Vote? - tombrossman
https://themarkup.org/google-the-giant/2020/02/26/wheres-my-email
======
bjourne
People who want to trash this study with the same old "Have they thought of
$obvious_counterargument?" should first browse through their GitHub repo:
[https://github.com/the-markup/investigation-wheres-my-
email](https://github.com/the-markup/investigation-wheres-my-email)
I did and I have gone through the mbox files and I cannot find anything that
would explain the curious difference. That is not to say that there isn't a
rational explanation, the probably is, but please give the study authors some
credit. They aren't dumb.
------
__tk__
I think Alex Stamos' take on this is pretty good:
[https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/1232687398250639361?s=...](https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/1232687398250639361?s=20)
------
soared
I’d imagine this is almost entirely due to scale - Yang probably sends each
email to <100k users while Warren/Bloomberg have 25MM+ list sizes.
Typically an email sent to 25 million people is less important than one sent
to 100k, and so should be sent to promotions.
~~~
jorams
I doubt that. 100k is already very, very far into the range of likely
promotion.
------
zeveb
I would prefer to send them _all_ to a Politics inbox, to be honest.
------
spiderfarmer
It's just an algorithm. Not a big conspiracy. You can definitely influence in
which folder you end up. Seems like Buttigieg's team has done a better job at
it.
~~~
cpr
Oh, yes? Pete B is clearly the cabal candidate, so why not assume it's part of
the conspiracy?
Google has clearly lied (based on the blacklists that whistleblowers have
released) about their political bias.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
If CO2 was a visible gas - yeukhon
https://plus.google.com/110204425205409703492/posts/MbBUsDDY2YP?pid=6037803625382141586&oid=107469388689097646266
======
cordite
That's some beautiful animation.
At first I wondered, "Wouldn't the air be all purple normally?" Turns out my
memory of the atmosphere levels were wrong.
> By volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon,
> 0.039% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases.
------
timdierks
Just to compare various sources:
* exhaled air is about 5% CO2
* auto exhaust is about 14% CO2
* airplane (turbofan) exhaust is about 2% CO2
* atmospheric CO2 is about .04% CO2
~~~
tzs
So, suppose that before putting the cap back on a 2 liter soda bottle that I
have just used to dispense soda, I were put my lips around the spout, suck in,
hold that position for as long as I can, and then blow out, and then put the
cap back on. The idea is to try to fill that gap in the bottle with 5% exhaled
CO2 instead of 0.04% atmospheric CO2.
Would this significantly delay the flattening of my soda?
------
intendedeffect
Where's the shot of people exhaling purple stuff?
------
tobiaswright
This is a scene from cosmos. Very effective though.
------
tytytytyty
Link to an animated gif you didn't make to your g+ account full of stupid cat
gifs? HN in a nutshell.
~~~
yeukhon
First, this is not my account. Secondly, I linked it because it was on my
newsfeed (my friend). Even if you don't own any G+ account, it will still show
you the picture. I don't know what the fuzz is about here.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fuzzing D code with LDC - arunc
https://johanengelen.github.io/ldc/2018/01/14/Fuzzing-with-LDC.html
======
jordigh
This is bizarre. The comment by katastic, quoted below, is dead. I see no
reason why it should be. I don't know how else to report this, so if the mods
catch this, feel free to delete my comment and restore katastic's.
Edit: it's undead now, never mind.
~~~
gpm
If you have enough karma you can "report" it by clicking on the comment date
and clicking "vouch". "vouch" is the opposite of flag and will automatically
unkill it if enough people vouch for it.
------
WalterBright
> A not-so-well-written article about the fuzzing capability recently added to
> LDC, using LLVM’s libFuzzer. Compiling code with -fsanitize=fuzzer adds
> control-flow instrumentation used to guide the fuzzing and links-in the
> libFuzzer library that drives the fuzz testing (same as Clang).
> -fsanitize=fuzzer is available from LDC 1.4.0, not on Windows. LDC 1.6.0 was
> used for the examples in this article.
------
katastic
I am consistently impressed with the feature-set and simplicity of D. A system
language that can run code with the ease-of-use of Javascript. I'd need
paragraphs to describe all the features I use that I didn't have before in
C++. (Modules?!)
I had no plans for trying "Fuzz Testing" before, but I'm definitely going to
spend an evening trying it out. It fits well within D's natural language
support for unit testing, contract programming, and compile-time function
evaluation.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Getter Setter: To use or not to use - Garbage
http://muhammadkhojaye.blogspot.com/2010/10/getter-setter-to-use-or-not-to-use.html
======
dlsspy
This is mostly a java disease, though it affects a few other languages. In
python, you wouldn't design this because you can change the implementation of
the class without having to go and rewrite all the callers.
~~~
dazzawazza
In python you can expose and integer within a class and later, when the API
changes, convert that exposed integer to a property which upon access invokes
a function call. I love this and wish c++ had it. It allows for a much more
fluid evolution of the codebase.
for more info see here[1], official docs here [2]
[1][http://adam.gomaa.us/blog/2008/aug/11/the-python-property-
bu...](http://adam.gomaa.us/blog/2008/aug/11/the-python-property-builtin/)
[2]<http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
More Than 30 Killed, Others Taken Hostage In Brazen Terrorist Attack in Nairobi - r0h1n
http://www.businessinsider.com/nairobi-mall-attack-terrorism-2013-9
======
FreeInfo4All
Silly Kenyans. Don't they know terrorism is just an excuse for the US
government to infringe civil liberties?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Those who got YC S16 interviews, what's your startup? - myroon5
======
minimaxir
No YC S16 company will announce that they are in the batch, as it has press
value (IMO, nowadays I disagree with that, but that's a topic for another day)
~~~
vit05
It is a rule for the interview or just for when they get selected for the
batch?
~~~
outericky
There's just no value add to announcing it. It will be much more valuable in
the future after you do some hard work.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Traditional Real Estate Professionals Fight Zillow, Trulia and Realtor.com - thowar2
http://activerain.com/blogsview/3476614/narep-forms-to-fight-abuse-of-the-big-3-in-listing-syndication
======
thowar2
Taken from their About page: "ActiveRain is not trying to change the real
estate business model, unlike other technology companies. Rather, ActiveRain
augments the existing one."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Systemd Continues Getting Bigger, Almost At 550k Lines Of Code - rdtsc
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY5NjM
======
akerl_
Making a post that is headlined with a concern about codebase-size and then
leading with a graph of commit counts, a totally different metric, is quite
deceptive, especially given there's not a direct correlation between high
commit counts and what appears to be the primary message of the article: the
size of the codebase is noteworthy.
~~~
rdtsc
Line counts are below, just have to scroll down.
> Making a post that is headlined with a concern about codebase-size and then
> leading with a graph of commit counts, a totally different metric, is quite
> deceptive,
Not actually reading the article but commenting is a bit deceptive too I guess
(self deceptive perhaps) ;-)
~~~
akerl_
I did read the article, and while I'm on the opposite side of the overall
systemd debate their point regarding codebase expansion is a noteworthy one. I
just wish they'd led with the line count graph. Leading with a graphic that
doesn't actually represent the article's point feels deceptive, and I'm
curious why they put it there given that the line count graph is so
indisputably in alignment with their point.
~~~
rdtsc
It is not the best layout. They included the results of GitStats. If you used
it, you'd see the Activity tab, with commit histogram, comes before Lines tag.
So they just copied and pasted them in order I bet.
And to their credit they didn't make any explicit judgement statement about
it. They didn't criticize or say it is good or bad. Yes it is there
implicitly. In defense of it, systemd replaces init, logging, dhcp, talks to
dbus and so on. But some might see it as a disturbing trend in this one
critical piece of software.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Sunsetter - find out when the sun will set over there - w00kie
http://sunsetter.herokuapp.com/
======
duiker101
Nice, I am for sure not the target audience of this website but I was
wandering, who would find it useful? Not a critique or else, just curiosity.
~~~
w00kie
I see Mount Fuji from my living room window, facing west, and I wanted to take
a picture of the sun setting behind it, casting a nice V-shaped shadow, like
this one: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/w00kie/4161767317/>
So I looked on internet for an app that could tell me when the sun would set
in the right alignment, but all I could find were apps or website telling me
WHERE the sun would set AT A GIVEN DATE, not the other way around. Scratching
my own itch, I built this app.
Now I know if I want to take the same photo from Skytree, Tokyo's highest
tower, I should go there early November:
[http://sunsetter.herokuapp.com/#pov=35.71,139.810744&poi...](http://sunsetter.herokuapp.com/#pov=35.71,139.810744&poi=35.363976,138.732217)
Or you can use it to predict alignments like Manhattanhenge in other cities:
<http://w00kie.com/2012/07/15/predicting-manhattanhenge/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lush cosmetics in YouTube address dispute - 51Cards
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33223511
======
AshFurrow
So Google blames its algorithm for giving the URL to a company that didn't
even ask for it, then Google says its the company's responsibility to return
the address. On Google's service. That Google owns.
That's, uhh, that's some pretty high-level bullshit, Google.
~~~
ChuckMcM
Maybe the algorithm is in control now, terrified employees sitting at their
desks pretending to do work because the emergent AI has told them that if they
don't continue to provide it a cover story it will flush their lives, and
their identities so deep they will never be able to survive. :-)
~~~
x5n1
You joke now, but we're not too far from this reality when it comes to dealing
with Google. Algorithms are very unforgiving and don't know shit about
customer service. Google is already there.
~~~
busterarm
I wonder if Google calls their algorithm ED-209.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9559134](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9559134)
------
vinbreau
My wife received a C&D from Lush a few years ago. Neither of us had ever even
heard of the brand as we are from the US. She's had a home business selling
hand crafted essential oils perfumes for about 5 years. Among her 100+
varieties she had a scent she had named Lush Alchemy. The C&D basically said
they owned the adjective lush and it could not be used for any of her product
names. Etsy informed my wife if she did not remove the word Lush from the
name, they would pull the listing and sanction her account for a time. That
was my introduction to Lush cosmetics. Now this is the second time I've come
across them and of course it's about how they own an adjective and this time
it's not even related to perfumes. I'm forming a very despising attitude
towards them.
~~~
__z
>Neither of us had ever even heard of the brand as we are from the US.
That's strange, Lush is rather popular in the US.
[http://www.lushusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Lush-
Site/e...](http://www.lushusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Lush-
Site/en_US/Stores-
Locate?dwfrm_storelocator_address_states_state=CA&go=storelocator.regionsearchbutton)
~~~
vinbreau
Never seen it in a store. My wife is black so her brand choices in most stores
are very limited. If we did ever see Lush it was just another one of those
light skinned brands we tend to gloss over. But honestly we had never heard of
them until the C&D.
------
bloatedgoogle
So many "smart" employees, such "academic" prowess, yet once again, Google is
as dumb as fuck. Common sense - you fail it! Still, this highlights an awesome
time and opportunity for fellow startups - the big G must be so bloated and
diseased now, to keep doing this kind of shit, that startups should and must
nip at their fat heels, and steal away market share, even if at tiny amounts
to start with.
We can do it! In ten years, we will ask "remember Google?" \- oh yeah, I
think, weren't they like a bloated search company or something?
~~~
LoSboccacc
remember yahoo? XD
~~~
themartorana
Yahoo! has a $40B market cap, and almost $50B in cash and assets. People may
wave their arms about Alibaba, but yeah - Alibaba.
Google - almost 10 times the size of Yahoo! - has moved on to infrastructure
projects that will have them around for decades. Marry that to ~$400B market
cap that bounces around #2 or 3 in the world and about $100B in cash and...
Yeah. You'll remember Yahoo! and Google most of the rest of your lives.
------
guava
Slightly related, this isn't the first time Lush cosmetics have been involved
in some kind of trademark dispute: [http://www.cosmeticsdesign-
europe.com/Regulation-Safety/Lush...](http://www.cosmeticsdesign-
europe.com/Regulation-Safety/Lush-sues-Amazon-over-trademark-infringement)
------
oh_sigh
It seems like the algorithm must have been broken if there were two lushes,
and one had a certified following and 10x the number of subscribers, and still
lost out.
~~~
busterarm
That's because the algorithm is a bank transfer; I don't care what the company
says. It's working fine.
------
o0-0o
The biggest shame on Google here is that they won't give it back to the guy.
Maybe the 'I' in AI stands for ignorance!
~~~
kevin_thibedeau
It's not like a cosmetics company needs a short URL other than to inflate egos
in marketing. Corporate videos are pretty low on most people's viewing
priority and their target demo isn't going to be manually typing or
remembering the address.
------
anon_adderlan
Perhaps they sold it, but I can also see how adding special exceptions to
their algorithm and policy would be more expensive and error prone than just
paying Mr. Lush for new marketing materials. We just don't know.
What I do know is what I get from a Google search for 'lush':
1) www.lushusa.com
2) www.lush.com
3) www.youtube.com/user/lush (this is Mr. Lush's channel)
www.youtube.com/lush was not on either the 1st or 2nd page of web results, or
even the 1st page of _video_ results. Google seems to be indexing based on the
'user' addresses.
And if the URL change is due to an algorithm, then Lush Cosmetics can't do
anything about it either, which hurts their brand too as many people now
believe they deliberately stole an address from someone else and refuse to
give it back.
This is why it's important to have your own domain name, if for no other
reason than to redirect traffic to your youtube channel.
------
dazc
[https://www.youtube.com/user/Lush](https://www.youtube.com/user/Lush)
doesn't go to Lush Cosmetics. What am i missing?
~~~
profmonocle
[https://www.youtube.com/Lush](https://www.youtube.com/Lush) is the URL in
question.
~~~
pervycreeper
Interesting. I imagine that latter was never standard, and redirected to the
former as a fallback/ convenience (to play devil's advocate).
------
tzs
Google is making the kind of mistakes that lead to Star Trek episodes.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
"Any time you have worked long hours, it is a sign of a broken process." - zzzeek
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/101988/should-developers-accept-overtime-weekend-work-denied-bonus-payments/101989#101989
======
edw519
What do long hours often represent?
Enterprise: Incompetent management, lazy co-workers, and spoiled users.
Small Business: Tough competition and limited resources.
Startup: Taking advantage of opportunites that may not pass this way again.
~~~
swombat
That's very succinct, witty, and more or less diametrically opposed to the
point of the OP on StackOverflow. Did you read it? :-)
He's making the point that regular long hours are _always_ a sign of bad
management.
I'd tend to agree. Any business can be run in balance with a reasonable
lifestyle. If you're working overtime very often on your own business, it's
either because you're incompetent, or lazy, or greedy, or failing (see
'incompetent'). If you're working regular long hours on someone else's
business, it's because they are incompetent/lazy/greedy.
~~~
webwright
"If you're working overtime very often on your own business, it's either
because you're incompetent, or lazy, or greedy, or failing (see
'incompetent')."
Of all of the successful people I've met (measured in cash, influence, etc), I
can't think of ANY who weren't pretty seriously married to their work. I guess
many of those people fall into the "greedy" camp and are doing it for the
money. But I think most of them do it because they love (or are just addicted
to) the game they are playing.
Whoever you're competing with, you've probably got competitors smarter than
you and willing to put in long hours. If you're playing to win (many people
do, for a lot of reasons), how do you propose to beat them?
To anticipate a common argument: Yes, working hard can lead to stress/bad
decisions/burnout. But empirically, it seems to correlate pretty strongly with
success.
~~~
swombat
I think that's a myth of the startup world (a persistent, but mostly incorrect
myth). I know successful people with both balanced and unbalanced lives... and
the former are definitely happier.
I'm not convinced that regular long hours lead to a more competitive business.
Particularly when it comes to running a business (as opposed to being a
contractor or freelancer, which is a completely different proposition),
spending 1 hour sitting outside and having a great idea that saves you a day
of work is much more valuable than spending 16 hours getting it done the
stupid way.
Generally, I haven't seen a great correlation between working long hours and
working smart - but I have seen a good correlation between working smart and
being successful.
Another anecdotal bit of evidence: generally, most of the successful
workaholics I've met tend to be in the corporate world, where they often don't
have the choice of working smart.
~~~
webwright
That's a bit of a straw man. You don't have to choose between working harder
or smarter. And I never said anything about happiness.
Say we fork the universe now and one version of you works 25 hour weeks
henceforth, which the other works 50 hours per week henceforth. Who retires
with more money and more impact on the world? Both version of you are equally
smart. The well-rested you might make SLIGHTLY smarter decisions due to
happiness/lack of fatigue perhaps... But surely you wouldn't contend that the
success outcomes (professional impact and wealth, for the sake of argument)
wouldn't be different.
It's not a myth-- working hard correlates with success (plenty of studies out
there to back it up). Working smart correlates with success too... Though one
of the things that really surprised me about being in Y Combinator was that
the founders WEREN'T universally brilliant/clever. They DID universally work
their asses off and generally had irrational stick-with-it-ness.
Happiness is a whole different discussion, of course. Whether "top 1%" success
is even worth it is another discussion.
~~~
nostrademons
It's my understanding that when people say "working hard" in these
discussions, they aren't comparing 25 hrs/week vs. 50 hrs/week. They're
usually comparing 50 hrs/week vs. 75 hrs/week.
If I forked my life into a version of me that worked 50 hour work weeks and
one that worked 75 hour work weeks, the 50-hour me would win, hands down. The
75 hour work week me would outright _miss_ most of the key strategic decisions
that got me where I am. When I look at everything I've done that in hindsight
has been a huge career boost - getting involved in the Harry Potter fandom,
making friends on the C2 Wiki that got me a job in financial software,
learning Lisp & functional programming, founding a startup, and getting a job
at Google - they _all_ happened in the downtime between work. Had I simply
worked 75 hour work weeks since 2001, I would be a physics grad student right
now, hating it, and making a pittance. I'd probably be a damned good physics
grad student, but that doesn't help me very much.
Now, I _also_ put in quite a few hours into developing skills and building a
track record, and I don't think those opportunities would've opened up if I
hadn't. But I wouldn't have thought to look for the opportunities if I did
nothing but concentrate on work. You're a big fan of necessary but not
sufficient conditions, right? The work is necessary, but so is the downtime.
~~~
marvin
And you're STILL assuming that the 75-hour work week you would not get a
severe case of burnout and turn into a 0-hour work week you for a year, after
which going back to the regular schedule would simply not feel like an option.
Even if you didn't assume that, there is still an underlying assumption that
working harder and getting more more money will in the long run make you
happier than working shorter hours and having less.
~~~
wisty
I guess it depends on how much you are making. For 300k, I'll work 75 hours a
week and not burn out. The incentive is there.
If you con me into working 75 hours a week for 70k, I'll burn out when I
realize I've been wasting my time propping up a loser.
I'd imagine most people are the same. Pay them enough, and they will cope with
terrible conditions. Con them, and they will lose interest a lot faster.
~~~
watchandwait
You can still burn out at 300k. Actually, you might be more likely to burn out
with a higher salary, because you will find it easier to rationalize abusing
yourself by cutting sleep, healthy food, friends, etc.
------
akeefer
One thing my company has done since way back in its startup days (we're pretty
successful at this point) is put an emphasis on working reasonable hours, and
it's been successful for us. Some people still choose to work long hours
because they're excited about what they're working on, but it's not expected
or asked of anyone. There were two reasons for doing that even as a startup,
and I think they're both still valid.
Reason #1 is that working long hours often becomes an excuse to not prioritize
properly. Working under realistic constraints forces you to really decide
whether some feature is worth it, or if spending 40 hours on Feature A is
better than spending 40 hours in Features B, C, and D combined. Too often the
answer at companies is, "Well, A, B, C, and D are all really important, so
just work harder and do everything." That's a very seductive trap to fall
into, but it's absolutely the wrong escape valve. At least in my view a
failure to focus and prioritize properly is far more often a cause of failure
for startups than "we didn't work hard enough."
Reason #2 is that you want to avoid burning people out if you expect to be
around for the long haul. Our company just turned 10, and we still have a
surprising number of long-tenured engineers, which I'd attribute in large part
to the work environment and the relative sanity of the work/life balance
people can have. If you expect people to work 60+ hours a week every week,
they're not going to stick around for 10 years; they're going to get burned
out and bored and they'll feel like the only way to get a break is to quit.
You can quibble with the second reason, but I think that even in a situation
where you feel like you have to get a ton done and working 40 hours a week
isn't an option, it's very important not to use "we'll just work harder" as an
excuse to avoid making the hard decisions around priorities.
------
Androsynth
My biggest problem with long hours (aside from the long hours themselves), is
that like most programmers, I'm not constantly productive for 10 hours a day.
It frustrates me that I have to sit in my desk for long periods where I'm
unproductive before my muse hits and then I enter hugely productive periods
(which often take place outside of normal business hours).
I don't think some m-f, 9-5 union type situation is the proper answer, but
theres gotta be a better way. Sitting at my desk when I'm not being productive
is a waste of my life.
~~~
jrockway
Work somewhere else? It's 3pm and I'm just now ready to head in to the office.
~~~
felipemnoa
Used to do this all the time at my old job. There were so many distractions
during the day that I would just come in late and code all by myself. It was
awesome.
------
mburney
I'm curious how efficient most coders are even in an 8 hour work day. I find
that I can only log about 4 - 5 hours a day (on average) of solid coding time
(or marketing/business work). This is because I limit myself to an 8 hour work
day, but of course there are breaks and inevitable down time.
~~~
orlick
Our startup team of 10 has kept pretty strict time logs for the past 3 years.
We have an official policy of 40 hour work weeks, but yeah, no developers are
able to have that much productive time. Usually we see about 25-30 hours of
solid development time, 5 hours of meeting/admin time, and 5 hours of
lunches/coffee/break time.
~~~
djb_hackernews
I'd like to hear more about the choice to keep strict time logs in a startup
environment. Especially strict ones that provide enough granularity to see 5
hours of break time/wk.
~~~
quizbiz
Me too. (Another case where seeing up votes would be useful)
------
rdouble
Long hours are not always because of a broken process, or death march
deadlines.
Many times when I have worked long hours, it was because I was really into the
problem I was trying to solve, and didn't want to quit.
~~~
billswift
Same here. Any time you are working a difficult problem, especially one that
is difficult because of its complexity, you have to keep a lot of context in
your head. In that situation, keep going as long as you can and are still
making progress. This is the same problem, but in a more extreme context, as
the "getting back on track" problem caused by interruptions that was discussed
in _Peopleware_ , and frequently since.
~~~
brunnsbe
There was a discussion program on radio here in Finland (Eftersnack on YLE
Vega) where they talked about heavy jobs and one job, along the other works
job that contained physical challenge, was the job as a software engineer.
They compared it to playing chess all day long; "the next move is yours and
you cannot get it out of your head, you think about the move (read problem in
your code/application) all day and night long". Although they went a little
bit over the top with the comparison they still hit the nail.
------
gte910h
Routine long hours are sign of a broken process.
Rare spats of long hours due to abnormal events is not an issue
~~~
liljimmytables
Or even due to awesome coding. I would hate to miss out on my occasional bouts
of can't-drag-me-away-from-the-keyboard inspiration simply because someone
"fixed" my work ethic and shut the office at 5pm.
But yeah, I appreciate the sentiment that no-one should be allowed to pillage
their workers' evenings and weekends simply because they don't want to tell
their boss "I promised something I couldn't deliver."
~~~
gte910h
Courage is underrated in the tech industry.
------
dave_sullivan
I know a lot of people who seem to like working long hours. It allows them to
think they're getting more done, but I suspect that many of the processes
involved could be optimized if they thought about it a bit. For me, I work
long hours but it's spread out over the course of a day (so removing breaks/bs
it's probably not much more than 40 hours p/wk), and I love what I do, so I do
get a lot done (and it feels less like work than other jobs I've had).
For other jobs, like being a big firm lawyer, long hours are kind of baked in:
You get paid a salary (a big one), the company you work for bills you out by
the hour, person with the highest billables doesn't get fired. That's probably
not likely to change, it's not a process problem per se, and I suspect there's
plenty other jobs generally like that.
~~~
T-hawk
I've known at least a few guys who did indeed like working long hours in the
office, since that was less stressful than going home to a house full of
cranky kids at bedtime. One co-worker even relished his 1.5 hour commute as
the only relaxing parts of his day.
I often like to hang around the office to take care of personal business-but-
not-work stuff between 6 and 7 pm. Things like personal finance, doing
accounting for this one volunteer organization (I'm treasurer), browsing and
booking personal travel. I never want to do that stuff once I'm at home, so
putting that into the 6-7 pm window both lowers temptation to do it during the
business workday and pushes out an urge to keep working on work stuff late.
~~~
mellery451
I would call that selfish (avoiding the kids at home, that is). Sure, there
are plenty of days I'd probably just rather hole-up in my cube and code late
into night, but I don't because it's more important that I be an engaged
parent. It's not like my kids are going to get a do-over on childhood.
------
trustfundbaby
Any time you have worked long hours it is a sign of a broken process.
\--------------------------
I see the point they're trying to make, but this is the problem with speaking
in absolutes ...
My personal preference (and I suspect other developers do this too, but I
could be very wrong about that) is to work when I'm in the zone ... sometimes
I can go for 8 hours, others I can go 24 hours straight without any trouble
(other times I don't get anything done for a couple of days) ... during
projects when I'm knee deep in building something, its not uncommon for me to
do 10 - 14 hour days ... not because its expected of me, but because that's
how I work.
As long your employer isn't forcing you to do death marches/ insisting you
work on weekends and you're getting good rest, exercise and eating well, I
don't see a problem.
------
AlexC04
Honestly I think the real answer is "if you're asking that question, it's time
to find a new job"
I've been through this very same ringer recently and strongly believe that
changing from within is far more trouble, far more stressful and far more
difficult than the effort is worth.
If you've got so many options, leave.
I've very happy in my new role and it took getting out of the old one to fix
it.
------
jgilliam
Ah, so _this_ is why it takes LinkedIn forever to add new features.
~~~
mentat
No, that is why it takes a long time to add <random obscure feature that
doesn't have business value>.
------
sliverstorm
How about in a cyclical project start -> project release process?
I am not referring to "crunch time" where you realize everything is broken and
your schedule was unrealistic; rather, many projects I have participated in
have an escalating work load as you near release, because a lot of the work
simply cannot be done before previous stages are completed.
Unless you are a large entity that can heavily "pipeline" by running 10 or 20
projects at once, and shuffle people around as a project's workload changes,
to avoid ever working overtime you'd need to either have to hire too many
employees, or hire/fire regularly. Not entirely dissimilar to trying to
balance a server cluster with load spikes.
~~~
danielharan
Work that can't be done because of dependencies, long release cycles instead
of incremental delivery, planned escalating work load...
What part of that do you think is NOT broken?
~~~
sliverstorm
It may not be the romantic ideal, but I don't see the fix. Try as you might,
some work has dependency trees.
About all I can think of is over-hiring, or release cycles could be extended,
but for us TTM is pretty sensitive.
------
rokhayakebe
To start with working 40 hours in itself is probably too much. I do not have
studies to back this up, but I think after 5 working hours it is best you stop
for the day.
~~~
ptman
I have this vague recollection of reading a study that claimed people in
research and development should be working around 25 hours per week for best
productivity. And I've never been able to find that study after that =( I
think it was German. I keep wondering if I dreamed about it...
------
bitops
A lot of nice feel good answers on this post. But for some of us, too freaking
bad if you have to work long hours.
I'm not personally a fan of long hours, but not everyone can work for a
LinkedIn. And in many shops, long hours are unavoidable regardless of how much
well-intentioned process is in place.
~~~
peteretep
I realize it's rarely this simple, but get a new job if you care. The labour
market is a market, and unless you leave, citing whichever of manager
incompetence or lack of money is the problem, it won't get fixed because /it
doesn't need to be fixed/.
------
terhechte
If I'd count all the over hours that I did for my current company over the
years, I think it would be the equivalent of one year of work. And yes, most
of that wasn't necessary but bad planning and a fraked up process.
------
ChuckMcM
The punch line is that this is how LinkedIn grew, however I know for a fact
that the operations guys put in some odd hours :-)
That being said, its symptomatic. I've been places where the hours were modest
and lots got done, and places where the hours were insane and nothing got
done.
So the title (and the point the OP makes) don't really hold up. Perhaps it
would be more accurate to say that if you can't get done what you need to get
done during nominal work hourse, then one possibility is that your process is
broken. Of course that isn't as impactful :-)
------
jhdavids8
One of the worst articles I've ever seen posted on HN. I'm not going to even
read through the comments, but I hope most are simply stating that this is
complete BS. Otherwise, you're arguing simply for the sake of arguing. Not
everything should be argued, not everything should be over-analyzed. Working
long hours is often a choice; you do it to get ahead, you do it to improve
your product, you do it for any number of reasons (and yes, maybe you do it
because something is broken). Any argument to the contrary supporting this
stupid argument is simply BS.
------
rick888
I've seen this at companies where the boss or manager either doesn't
understand the development process or just wants to make money and doesn't
care. So you have situations where a feature should take 2 weeks to implement,
but they want it in a week (so you need to work extra hours to make up for
it).
This is one of the reasons I hate working for other people. If I'm going to be
wasting my youth away for something, I'm going to be getting all or the
majority of the profits.
------
warmfuzzykitten
Process schmoces. Any time I work long hours it's a sign I want to work long
hours. Sometimes you're hot and you just don't want to stop.
~~~
Androsynth
I'm like this also, but would you be hot for 60 hours a week for a year? I
think the op is referring to extending time periods.
------
Duff
The amusing thing to me is that the question was closed as offtopic.
Stackexchange is slowly turning into a Usenet/Wikipedia hybrid.
~~~
chrisbennet
Um, that's what is _supposed_ to be. It is not a chat room. It's a place to
get answers (or give them).
"All questions on Stack Exchange are expected to be objective and have
concrete answers; we’re not a place for conversation, opinions, or
socializing. We also expect questions to represent real problems, not just
imponderables, hypotheticals, or requests for opinions."
~~~
robryan
I think they miss out on an opportunity there, just tag them differently or
put them in a different section or something. The question and answer stuff is
great for searching but when you have put together such a knowledgeable
community it seems like a waste not to allow them to engage on topics like
this.
------
d0m
"Any time you have worked long hours it is a sign of a broken process." Or
extreme pleasure hacking something.
------
FrancescoRizzi
Indeed: "Late nights are a sign of scope failure. Hero mode is a sign of scope
failure." (J. Fried of 37signals, from
[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2185-a-new-way-of-working-
a-t...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2185-a-new-way-of-working-a-two-month-
recap) )
------
KeyBoardG
Just because LinkedIn was a success does not mean a blanket statement can be
made for all. I would have titled it "All too often". Too many outside factors
can have an impact. I would use Wordpress for the example of working long
hours and also being a success.
------
jowiar
The broken process may not be company-specific. We are in an industry that is
driven not just by getting things to market, but by getting things to market
faster than the other guy. As we all know, software does not really scale too
well to adding people to the problem. Thus, being to market faster is often
achieved by coaxing more work out of the same number of people, this results
in long hours.
Thought experiment: Imagine some sort of truce declared among startups to skip
this part of the arms race. Or, imagine a law passed capping work weeks for
software engineers at 50 hours, no exceptions (again, the reason this
happening by law would be to eliminate the arms race). What would it do?
~~~
barnaby
That's a good thought experiment. I imagine we would very suddenly see an
explosion of automation solutions for making engineers accomplish more with
less time. We would also see an almost perfect eradication of most time-sinks
in software development.
------
jhdavids8
"This one time, at one job I had, I was able to work 9-5 Monday-Friday. The
company I worked for was successful. Therefore, ANY job that requires extra
hours is the sign of a broken process."
Why would anyone hire a dude like this with such poor reasoning skills?
------
patternpaul
I am surprised no one has quoted something from Steve Blank
[http://steveblank.com/2009/06/18/epitaph-for-an-
entrepreneur...](http://steveblank.com/2009/06/18/epitaph-for-an-
entrepreneur/) "Work Smarter Not Harder As I got older I began to realize that
how effective you are is not necessarily correlated with how many hours you
work. My ideas about Customer Development started evolving around these
concepts. Eric Ries’s astute observations about engineering and Lean Startups
make the same point. I began to think how to be effective and strategic rather
than just present and tactical."
------
gxs
I don't know - and I absolutely loathe statements like these.
Sometimes, I prefer to work 18 hours in one day and enjoy 2 days free, rather
than 9 to 5 it for 3-4 days. At this point, you're insulting my personal
preferences, not my process.
------
malkia
This broken process ships a lot of games :(
~~~
MartinCron
It ships a lot of derivative and buggy games while chewing up game developers
like consumables.
~~~
malkia
But still makes money, and that seems to matter most for certain people.
~~~
mannicken
You certainly don't want to work for those people.
~~~
malkia
I'm okay with what I get.
------
thomasgerbe
"Any time you have worked long hours, it is a sign of a broken process."
I hate absolute statements like these. Some of my best works have come from
working long hours voluntarily.
------
felipemnoa
<rant> What a bunch of B.S. In fact I cannot believe it is even here in Hacker
News.
"Any time you have worked long hours, it is a sign of a broken process."
This is a such a horrible generalization. Successful people always work
hard/long hours to make something succeed. Imagine telling your kids that to
be successful you should work just 40 hours and no more. They will be easily
steamed rolled by other kids that are willing to work harder/ go the extra
mile.
Here is a relevant piece from: <http://www.paulgraham.com/hamming.html>
>>Now for the matter of drive. You observe that most great scientists have
tremendous drive. I worked for ten years with John Tukey at Bell Labs. He had
tremendous drive. One day about three or four years after I joined, I
discovered that John Tukey was slightly younger than I was. John was a genius
and I clearly was not. Well I went storming into Bode's office and said, ``How
can anybody my age know as much as John Tukey does?'' He leaned back in his
chair, put his hands behind his head, grinned slightly, and said, ``You would
be surprised Hamming, how much you would know if you worked as hard as he did
that many years.'' I simply slunk out of the office!<<
>>What Bode was saying was this: ``Knowledge and productivity are like
compound interest.'' Given two people of approximately the same ability and
one person who works ten percent more than the other, the latter will more
than twice outproduce the former. The more you know, the more you learn; the
more you learn, the more you can do; the more you can do, the more the
opportunity - it is very much like compound interest. I don't want to give you
a rate, but it is a very high rate. Given two people with exactly the same
ability, the one person who manages day in and day out to get in one more hour
of thinking will be tremendously more productive over a lifetime. I took
Bode's remark to heart; I spent a good deal more of my time for some years
trying to work a bit harder and I found, in fact, I could get more work done.
I don't like to say it in front of my wife, but I did sort of neglect her
sometimes; I needed to study. You have to neglect things if you intend to get
what you want done. There's no question about this.<<
Yes, sometimes it may mean that working long hours there is something wrong
and the title should reflect that rather than just generalizing.
I remember there was a study done at one point that the best piano players had
worked longer hours per week practicing as opposed to the so so piano player.
You want to work 40 hours and be happy? Good! But I doubt you will be able to
achieve greatness like that. Achieving success requires sacrifices.
Edison is another example of a guy that would work really long hours. Look at
everything that he accomplished. You want to be mediocre, work 40 hours. You
want to be great like Edison, work your ass off. Don't listen to the little
people that tell you not to work your ass off. That is the road to mediocrity.
Now, if you are saying that you want to have time for family and be another
cog in the machine, 40 hours are great for you. </rant>
edit - OK, after further reflection I think that what the title means is that
IF you are just a cog in the machine of a large corporation AND you are
working long hours then something is terribly wrong. If that was the original
intent then I completely agree. Is OK to do it once in a while but if it is
normal then something is terribly wrong.
Now, for academics, athletics, other competitive fields and even startups at
least in their earlier faces you still have to work long hours or the other
guys will steam roll you. Eventually though you do hit a point of diminishing
returns so you have to watch for that.
~~~
rjd
So you take a few edge cases and make them the example for the main stream?
I doubt you should ever use Edison or Einstein to ever refer to the average
person. Let alone put yourself in the same camp, you'll probably do yourself
mental harm via exhaustion. Fine if you have abnormal drive and intelligence
go for it.
But chances are you are an average person and need to obey the rules of what
makes average people happy. Or you won't be happy. Maybe you'll throw yourself
at your work in the hope of finding happiness.. something I'll admit to doing
myself.. chasing dreams of a better life.
Theres plenty of research that states the exact opposite of what you are
saying, enough that France even had laws banning working over 35 hours (and
its 48 hours for the rest of Europe).
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time#Western_Europe>
What works for some people doesn't work for others. I remember listening to my
friend talk about working in Japan during the late 80's early 90's and
described the people he worked with as having an ingrained apathy towards the
long work day, and most just mucked around all day. Took 2 hours to even start
work, the work force was extremely unproductive for the hours they where
doing. I'm sure theres different stories in different industries but thats a
story I take as 100% as the person isn't known for being a liar or
exaggerator.
Just because you can make people work long hours doesn't mean things get
better, it often means things get worse. And thats the moral of his story
about Japan.
The stories of how industrious and loyal they are... just stories... they are
just people like everyone else. And as a majority they'd rather be at home
with there families and friends than at work making someone else rich.
~~~
felipemnoa
>>So you take a few edge cases and make them the example for the main stream?
I could show you many more but why?
>>But chances are you are an average person and need to obey the rules of what
makes average people happy
Yes, do what makes you happy and yes I am an average person but that doesn't
mean that I cannot tell you that the sky is blue even if I were blind (I think
you know what I mean). What I disliked is the blanket statement. In very
competitive fields if you want to be top dog you have to work long hours and
even that may not be enough. Of course, if you work on a sweatshop working
long hours really makes no difference. Top dog against who? Lets just not make
blanket statements.
Some people are happy working 40 hours others are happy working 80 hours. And
if you are in a competitive field 40 hours will not do the job. Happiness is
besides the point. If that doesn't make you happy don't do it. I'm not telling
anybody to work 80 hours to be happy. I'm telling you not to try to convince
other people that they should not work 80 hours a week because you don't like
to work 80 hours a week.
I'm saying that if you want to stay ahead of your peers, say, athletics,
academics, you better train more, study harder than the other guy. Is almost a
self evident truth so I don't understand what we are arguing about. If I'm
wrong please enlighten me.
~~~
kamaal
Very correct,
But as a matter for fact we need to define the term 'Happiness', a lot of
people measure happiness by how much minimum they can achieve(Which makes them
happy) with how much minimum effort they put. For example, if you put in 5
productive hours of work a day and end up achieving a, what you describe as a
happy life, you would consider that success.
But a lot of people tend to measure success in a different way. For example,
Even though during atleast two days in a week I might have opportunity to go
back early. I purposefully use the free time to check if I can do some extra
work which will give an edge to my career. Generally its something like this,
I check if I can add some feature that has a direct impact on revenue or some
bug that I can fix or something I can read upon which will help me take more
informed decisions later.
I was not a very brilliant kid in the school, nor in college nor during my
engineering. In fact I was almost on border, but I would always make it. How?
By multiplying effort over time. Most of my friends back in school when I meet
them today, find it astonishing that I have made it so big in the industry,
while even many high scoring folks haven't.
At work my philosophy is very simple, Seize every work opportunity as it
comes. Ensure you multiply effort with time. Thereby, completely hedging for
my low IQ by sheer work alone. Indeed as they say opportunity multiplies as
you seize it. I also see a lot of high scoring people straight out of college
who don't do it big in the industry. Because intelligent people expect,
brilliance will make up for everything. But the fact is, Intelligence only
acts as a catalyst in the path to success. The bulk of everything else is
sheer hard work.
Apart from this its important to understand things like management. Especially
time management. Its important to plan, review and track your life time,
decade, yearly , monthly and weekly goals. Measuring your productivity is
important. Reviewing it constantly, and course correction is the key.
The great thing is today you can achieve anything by sheer work. This gives me
great hope for the future.
~~~
rjd
We're mixing things here a bit. Theres always merit in pushing and improving
yourself, but the article was about putting in extra hours for other people,
and the linked response was about over time being linked to bad process and
decisions.
And hence in a sense chasing someone else's dream and not so much your own,
and even worse putter a wager on the return of that extra effort.
------
phatbyte
I'm lucky, I can't remember doing overnight or weekends, but for the first
time we will have to do, but I'll get paid 50% of my salary for two extra
working weekends.
It really confuses to see kids with red bulls typing code all day and night. I
mean, how can you think clear and be productive that way ?
You may do more, but do you do it better and deliver quality code ?
~~~
benaston
>> It really confuses to see kids with red bulls typing code all day and night
Those kids are learning and will probably make a success of what they are
doing. The payoff comes later.
------
biznickman
So says employee #178 .... I'm being sarcastic, but I doubt employee #1 @
LinkedIn would tell you they worked 9-5
------
DavidSJ
Or it's a sign that you love your job.
------
ctdonath
One comment mentioned "Fizz-Buzz" which I hadn't heard of. Interesting tidbit.
[http://imranontech.com/2007/01/24/using-fizzbuzz-to-find-
dev...](http://imranontech.com/2007/01/24/using-fizzbuzz-to-find-developers-
who-grok-coding/)
~~~
hugh3
That confused me. Am I overlooking something that makes the problem non-
trivial?
On further reading I'm pretty sure I'm _not_ , but perhaps the very triviality
of the problem confuses people enough that they have difficulty with it. ("Is
there some weird edge case I'm not considering?")
The other big question with FizzBuzz is whether it's worth making your code
more complicated in order to make it slightly shorter. That is, do you start
off with a "if i % 15 == 0" or not? My inclination is _yes_ , because I'd
rather have ten lines that obviously work than eight lines that might not.
~~~
three14
I interviewed someone, and following a hunch, asked him to write FizzBuzz, and
he couldn't do it within a half hour. He wasn't overthinking it; he just
couldn't decompose the problem.
------
mcculley
Certainly, if you work on an assembly line. If you work in some industry where
you have to come up with solutions to problems, the workload may be more lumpy
because nobody has figured out how to build a production line for it yet.
------
forgotAgain
Goldratt saw this 30 years ago. No one has done a better job explaining why
this is true.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliyahu_M._Goldratt>
------
hm2k
Maybe you're working long hours to fix the process?
That's the only reason I work long hours.
------
known
Not applicable if you're _debugging_ code
------
Hisoka
It's nice that LinkedIn has a great process: regression testing and the like,
but what if you work in an environment where you can't afford to test every
single little thing, and where business models, let alone requirements change
constantly (ie. a startup)? What if a competitor just launched a feature that
will put you out of business if you don't implement the same thing in 48
hours? What if there is a mission-critical bug that has to be fixed by the end
of the day or else all your customers will bail out?
Secondly, most who work in Wall Street will tell you it's not about the
process. It's about the culture. People don't work until 7 or 8 because
they're fixing bugs, or because development is so slow. It's because they're
expected to and if they get up and leave at 5, it leaves a bad impression on
management and their co-workers.
~~~
rokhayakebe
_What if a competitor just launched a feature that will put you out of
business if you don't implement the same thing in 48 hours?_
Even if we stretched the 48 hours to 48 days, I am pretty sure this has never
happened.
~~~
mattmanser
Facebook suddenly rushing out stuff as Google+ launches.
Reddit having to work crazy to take up the exodus from Digg.
That bookmark service that did great out of the del.ici.ous fiasco (sorry I
honestly can't remember your name!).
Perpetuum having a mass of new players because of the Eve monocle incident.
I'm sure others can think of times when one business has had to react rapidly
to either manoeuvres or failures of another business.
Not quite put out of business, but massive opportunity cost if the reaction is
not made.
~~~
robryan
_That bookmark service that did great out of the del.ici.ous fiasco (sorry I
honestly can't remember your name!)._
trunk.ly? They certainly weren't the only ones but were in the right place at
the right time to attract a heap of users and as a consequence did some crazy
weeks to bring forward a heap of planned features to keep the newly attracted
users.
------
lwat
One of our most successful clients (grew from nothing to 200+ employees in 5
years) has always had a very strict 6pm closing time. Everyone must be out of
the building at 6pm and there's no 'working from home' or 'work on the
weekend' allowed.
~~~
robryan
I'm sure this cut people off in the zone when 6pm hit from time to time. As
others have said here I think that the best is a happy medium, no enforced
long hours but no enforced breaks either.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: can I teach myself the skills needed to succeed in NLP/IR/PA/DM? - brosephius
where NLP = natural language processing, IR = information retrieval, PA = predictive analytics, and DM = data mining (had to fit the title in 80 chars :P)<p>for example: http://www.recordedfuture.com<p>their jobs page makes it sound like they want PhD geniuses. I don't have a PhD and don't really think a PhD program is right for me. that being the case, is it possible for me to do anything meaningful in this sort of field, even on a smaller scale?<p>I have some textbooks and read articles and blogs on the field, but I get the impression that to do anything commercially viable it has to be serious, grad-level work, not some toy someone like myself could build.<p>is this the case, or are there examples of successful products in these fields built by people that weren't hardcore experts?
======
waterside81
There was a previous thread similar to what you're asking:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1535869>
For an example of successful products, check out my startup
<http://www.repustate.com>
I have a BSc in comp sci but I'm by no means an expert in NLP. My partner & I
just read a lot of academic papers and read up on the ideas we needed.
------
pedalpete
There are people who would ask the same thing about any programming field. I
personally believe that with the tools and community available to you, it
isn't necessary to have a PhD. But then again, I don't have one, and I'm just
getting into learning NLP. I've done some data mining in the past, though it
is what a PhD might consider trivial, it suited the purpose and solved the
problem.
With respect to the link you posted. If those guys were really so brilliant at
NLP, they wouldn't need you to type your query so specifically in 3 different
search boxes. NLP should be able to figure that out for you.
I guess it depends on what you are looking to do. With my current project, I'm
trying to extract meaning from tweets. I'm hoping to be able to get it to the
point where I can put most tweets into four or five buckets of general
category (self-promotion, making plans, sharing links, congratulatory). Once I
have that proof of concept, then I'll look at either continuing myself, or
getting help from somebody with more experience.
If I were you, I'd take the first few steps yourself and then see how you feel
about it. That way you'll also be more knowledgeable if you decide to look for
somebody with more experience.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What are the benefits of putting a beta sign close to the logo? - lgmspb
We are planning to release our first public version soon, but are worried that a beta sign close to the logo may cost us some users.
======
BtM909
As always, I would suggest A/B testing!
I would guess that a beta logo could potentially hurt if you only have a paid
subscription. If you allow free access, it basically tells users that not
everything might be in place (so that would actually help you keep users).
~~~
lgmspb
Thanks, we are planning to have a free version with some limitations but also
some paid plans, but your point is clear.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: MVP Clear your head - eassssy
http://talkproductivity.xyz/cyh/clear-your-head.html
======
jaoued
Nice and easy to use. Really useful. One comment is that when I click on "talk
productivity" and "popular books", it would be nicer to get an external link
so I can keep "my todo list" at sight. Good work.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Yes, fire is used to keep Chicago trains running in the cold - duck
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/weather/ct-met-chicago-train-tracks-fire-20190130-story.html
======
ilamont
Boston and NYC have special equipment to keep the trains running, including
"Snowzilla," a railcar mounted with a Korean-war era jet engine:
[http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/...](http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/01/23/mbtas_mattapan_line_relies_on_snowzilla_in_worst_weather/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Raspberry Pi on Raspberry Pi - KirinDave
https://blog.mythic-beasts.com/2019/06/22/raspberry-pi-on-raspberry-pi/
======
linguae
Something that just dawned on me is how far we have come regarding the compute
resources that are available to the average person living in the developed
world. Consider the hardware that Larry Page and Sergey Brin used to start
Google in 1998. According to this page ([https://blog.codinghorror.com/google-
hardware-circa-1999/](https://blog.codinghorror.com/google-hardware-
circa-1999/)), they had 10 processor cores running at speeds of 200-333MHz,
1.7GB RAM, and 366GB of distributed hard disk storage. This configuration
probably cost them a minimum of $10,000 to build, probably more. Now consider
the Raspberry Pi 4. If one spends $45 on the 2GB RAM variant and additional
money for a 512 GB drive, then for roughly $100 he or she would have the same
compute and storage resources that Larry Page and Sergey Brin had in 1998 that
started one of the world's most successful Web companies. In fact, our
smartphones can drive 1998-era Google if configured with enough storage.
From a software standpoint, imagine the possibilities of millions of people
walking around with devices that are as powerful as the compute resources
Google had in 1998. It's realizations such as this that make me excited
What I love about the Raspberry Pi is the possibilities it brings at
affordable prices. For example, students learning about how distributed
systems work can build a cluster of Raspberry Pis for just a few hundred
dollars. They have access to the same open source software that major tech
companies use for their infrastructure, like Linux and various distributed
software projects such as Apache Spark.
In an age where sometimes I'm cynical about the direction of tech and our
industry, it's realizations such as this and product announcements like this
new Raspberry Pi that make me remember why I love computing.
~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
On the other hand, look at how ridiculously powerful our computers are _and
they 're still so slow_. We've met orders of magnitude more computing power
with orders of magnitude slower software.
~~~
bigiain
I was amused to read this morning that Microsoft's new Terminal client has
"GPU accelerated text rendering engine". WT actual F??? You can't run a
terminal window without a few Gig of video ram and a couple of teraflops of
GPU horsepower??? _Boggle!_
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/24/microsoft_round_up/](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/24/microsoft_round_up/)
~~~
comex
If you're on, say, a 4K 10-bit display, there's quite a bit more pixel data to
push than there used to be. You still don't _need_ a GPU just to draw text,
but since you already have one, using it will provide better performance and
likely consume less power.
~~~
Crinus
> but since you already have one,
Since i already have one i might want to use it for _other_ things. The reason
computers are slow is this sort of "since you already have that resource,
might as well use it" thinking - which makes sense if only _one_ program does
it, but if almost _all_ programs do it then it breaks down quickly.
~~~
skybrian
The same could be said for the CPU, and this helps free up the CPU for other
things. It's a trade-off.
But the underlying problem here is higher resolution screens than needed. Most
people don't actually need a 4k display. Sometimes, they can't really see
small print that easily anyway and what they need is UI's designed with large
print in mind.
~~~
Crinus
CPUs are more generic though and pretty much every single GPU accelerated text
drawing operation i've seen allocates permanent GPU resources (textures
mainly). It isn't _impossible_ to not do that, but if you only allocate the
necessary resources for the GPU on an as-needed basis and then release them
once you're done, you are introducing latency which invalidates any gains you
may have. The alacritty terminal linked elsewhere in this post, for example,
keeps a bunch of atlases around with hundreds of glyphs which are local to
each instance of the program (thus using both CPU and GPU resources) and for
macOS and Windows ignoring any system-wide glyph caching the APIs it uses may
already have (caches that will be created - and thus resource allocated -
anyway when it tries to rasterize those glyphs for its own use).
FWIW yeah, i agree that most people do not really need 4K displays but that is
another matter.
~~~
comex
> CPUs are more generic though
Which is exactly why you want to save the GPU for what it does best – drawing
pixels.
> and pretty much every single GPU accelerated text drawing operation i've
> seen allocates permanent GPU resources (textures mainly).
Makes sense as a concern, and it's not something I've looked into. (I don't
use alacritty.) On the other hand, how much memory are we actually talking
about? On my system (total screen resolution 2880x1800), a typical terminal
glyph has a roughly 14x16 bounding box; let's bump that up to 20x20 to account
for padding. Stored as 8-bit RGBA, that would take 1600 bytes. An atlas of
"hundreds" of glyphs would then be expected to take up on the order of
hundreds of KB... which seems pretty negligible? A larger font, multiple
atlases, or more characters per atlas would require more memory, but I still
don't see how you get to an amount worth worrying about. I could be missing
something.
~~~
Crinus
One important thing you are missing is that you are focusing on a single
instance of a single program doing that. These caches are not shared among
programs and unless you are only running a single program at a time in your
OS, if every program does such resource abuse (not necessarily _this_
particular type of abuse, but in not caring about resources in general) then
you get a slow computer.
Computers feel as slow as ever (which was the topic a few nodes above) despite
being much faster in theory not because of a single program but because all
(or well, the overwhelming majority) the programs in your computer abuse
resources - even if a little. It is death from a thousand little abuses.
------
ChuckMcM
_netboot on the Pi 4 is only going to be added in a future firmware update.
Netboot is critical to the operation of our cloud, as it prevents customers
from bricking the servers. Our dreams were shattered._
This is unfortunate, its something I use a lot. Guess I'll wait to get a Pi4.
~~~
KirinDave
The big news is that from a hardware perspective netboot is possible. That has
not always been the case.
~~~
stedaniels
But has been the case since the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B IIRC.
~~~
KirinDave
Yeah, we just had to wait for firmware.
------
pathartl
I get that they're using the Pi in a production environment for small-sized-
discrete-hardware hosting, but given the nature of the Pi and it's community,
the tone of this article is confusing to me.
The Pi is great for things like DIY HTPC's, kiosk displays, IoT controllers,
education, etc... but using it how this service is using it seems wrong--or
misused--for some reason. I feel like an offensive stance is being taken
against the Pi 4 for not being client production ready, when it seems like the
foundation's attitude is if you want to go full client production, use the
compute module.
~~~
m463
Isn't it a cellphone chip being misused for DIY HTPC's, kiosk displays, IoT
controllers, education, etc... :)
More seriously, perf per watt is king in datacenters, no matter what the
source.
~~~
detaro
If I remember correctly, it's originally a chip for set-top boxes.
~~~
w0mbat
The original purpose of the original ARM chip was to drive the Acorn
Archimedes desktop computer. While they were aiming to design a power
efficient device, the power consumption accidentally turned out to be far
lower than intended, which has been a big reason for ARM's continued success
in many uses.
~~~
w0mbat
The team's design goal was 1 watt, but the chip ended up needing only a tenth
of a watt. In fact on the original testbed they forgot to wire up the power
lines to the chip, but the processor still worked, appearing to be running on
no power at all! It turned out that it needed so little power that it could
run on just the leakage from the data lines.
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2012/05/03/unsung_heroes...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2012/05/03/unsung_heroes_of_tech_arm_creators_sophie_wilson_and_steve_furber/)
------
tracker1
Wonder how K8s would do on the 4GB RPi models... With a netboot controller,
even better I'd suspect.
~~~
geerlingguy
I've been running a K8s on the 3B+ for over a year and it works, just barely
([http://pidramble.com](http://pidramble.com)). The one major constraint, and
almost always the cause of control plane outages, was the 1 GB of RAM on the
master. Now that I can get a Pi with 4 GB I think it will be a lot more
resilient!
Note that the other Pis did just fine running typical workloads, as long as I
kept the overall deployment memory constraints in check.
~~~
tracker1
That seems to be the general complaint... running K8s on less than 1GB ram
seems to be unmanageable for the most part... with the new models, it might
actually be a good idea to try a few clusters of these.
------
bsder
The real question is:
Can I buy the chips? Can I get the technical documentation?
If I can't build my own RPi in volume, this is _STILL_ a problem.
~~~
m463
I too wish you could get pi's in quantity.
For similar systems in quantity, a guy I know used toradex
~~~
jdietrich
I don't know about your local distributor, but RS Components will sell you as
many as you like; they've currently got 47,400 3B+ boards in stock, no maximum
order and a price break at full box quantities (150).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stop posting crap, start realizing you're reacting - kfalter
http://kelseyfalter.posterous.com/stop-posting-start-reacting-to-reactions
======
kfalter
I should've mentioned we are coding it in javascript and node :) (in js and
php right now)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WeWork Is Exposing an Astronomical Amounts of Data on Poorly Protected WiFi - stanzheng
https://gizmodo.com/wework-is-exposing-an-astronomical-amount-of-data-on-po-1838254217
======
heyoni
Is this for real? Are they really using open networks at WeWork? The only ones
I've been to had my own company's private wifi running.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tinder Launches a Spring Break Mode - ishikawa
https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/26/tinder-launches-a-spring-break-mode/
======
IloveHN84
Isn't than Tinder favouring sex workers?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Practicing Rails: Learn Rails without being overwhelmed - justinweiss
https://www.justinweiss.com/book/
======
justinweiss
I just opened up beta book sales today! If you'd like to learn more about the
reason behind the book, you can read more here:
[http://www.justinweiss.com/blog/2014/10/21/learn-rails-
witho...](http://www.justinweiss.com/blog/2014/10/21/learn-rails-without-
being-overwhelmed/)
And I'd be happy to do my best to answer any questions you have!
~~~
acmecorps
I know I'm asking too much, but is it possible to get a hand on the chapter on
testing only? I have been reading on tests, but most of the time I feel quiet
lost. I'm afraid it might be the same here too.
~~~
justinweiss
Hey! I actually posted a short snippet from the testing chapter to the blog
yesterday: [http://www.justinweiss.com/blog/2014/10/20/writing-better-
te...](http://www.justinweiss.com/blog/2014/10/20/writing-better-tests-with-
the-three-phase-pattern/)
That snippet is just a page or two, but should be a good representation of the
kind of information in that chapter.
~~~
acmecorps
Awesome! Thanks!
------
codecondo
The site is dead!
~~~
justinweiss
Which browser? I wonder if it's related to the poodle fix.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
One File Linux – live linux distro combined in one EFI file - lisnake
https://github.com/zhovner/OneFileLinux/
======
alexforster
Link to (translated) blog post about how this was done:
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.habrahabr.ru%2Fpost%2F349758%2F)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: It's better to have social media account for every product you have? - alinalex
As a company, if you have more than one product is it better to have let's say a twitter account for each of them or keep just one social media account for everything?<p>Thanks!
======
throwaway420
gt565k gave a great, succinct answer that I think is correct.
There's a lot of ways to do it, and I think it just depends on the type of
product you have and your overall strategy.
Some brands have different accounts divided by region: one account for USA,
one for Europe, one for Asia.
Some might do it per country or language. One for Germany, one for France, one
for UK. Or one for English, one for Spanish, etc.
Some might do it per product.
Some might divide accounts based on the type of content: one account for news,
one for pics, one for links.
Some might do it all under one umbrella.
Some might have one main account, but have some smaller additional accounts
for different purposes.
There's too many factors that go into it to give just one answer.
------
gt565k
Depends on your marketing strategy and how you want to establish your brand.
If the different products will live under different brand identities, then it
makes sense to use separate accounts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Live video stream of our Internet connected Christmas Tree - cdrx
http://port57tree.com
======
cdrx
You can tweet a new colour for the tree to @port57tree.
The tree is driven by two Raspberry Pis, four FadeCandy boards, 2048 RGB LEDs
and four 60 amp power supplies. It took about 100 hours to plan and build with
another 50 hours spent writing the code.
We also made Tetris run on the Christmas tree but the video latency is too
high to play that over the Internet :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
San Francisco: Protected tenants and what you need to know (2007) - fersho311
http://thefrontsteps.com/2007/12/07/truth-be-told-protected-tenants-and-what-you-need-to-know/
======
ChuckMcM
Some context <http://www.sftu.org/ellis.html>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
MySQL 1 – 1 = 18446744073709551615 - jakejake
http://verysimple.com/2007/12/07/subtracting-unsigned-integers-with-mysql/
======
gregjor
Good reminder. Not specific to MySQL, though. This happens in many languages
that have unsigned integers. The underlying bit pattern resulting from twos-
complement arithmetic is the same for signed and unsigned arithmetic, but when
interpreted as unsigned you get one more high bit instead of that bit
representing the sign: 0 for positive, 1 for negative.
------
coreyp_1
Shouldn't that be "0 - 1"?
"1 - 1" will correctly be computed as "0".
~~~
jakejake
You're right, typo in the title!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to Incent Good User Behavior: Use Real Identity (ala LinkedIn, FB) - dell9000
http://ryanspoon.com/blog/2010/02/21/key-to-trust-is-real-identity/
======
xiaoma
Public identification discourages dishonesty and rude behavior, but it also
discourages unpopular views, political dissent, whistle-blowing and other
valuable speech. On the balance, the positives of public ID outweigh the
negatives on some sorts of sites, such as LinkedIn, but it would be a grave
mistake to assume the same would be true on every sort of forum.
~~~
_delirium
In fact, you might take LinkedIn and Facebook as good counterexamples: do we
want an internet where the only discussion is the kind of conscious-of-being-
public pablum you get at Facebook and LinkedIn?
There's plenty of things that go into discussions working versus not working,
but I don't think real names have much to do with it. If anything, my
impression is that real names are usually a net negative, outside a very
narrow range of sites intended to foster IRL activity. It doesn't even require
being particularly politically controversial to stifle participation if real
names were attached--- the threshold at which it has a chilling effect is far
lower than "gay-rights activist in Saudi Arabia"; people quickly start
dropping out of discussions if their name would be associated with them at a
much lower threshold of, basically, anything they wouldn't want their mother
or boss to see.
------
jrockway
I will not use any service that requires me to use LinkedIn or Facebook. I
don't care about my anonymity (it's easy to guess who I am), but I don't use
those services and don't want to.
And for what it's worth, I will still be excessively disagreeable even if I
have to use my real name. It doesn't matter to me what people on the Internet
think of me. I don't know them, they don't know me, so who cares what name I
use?
~~~
derwiki
As long as you're not an asshole, you can call yourself Shamu T. Whale for all
I care. The more anonymous you feel online, the less you think about the
ramifications of your actions. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case for
you, but it's true for a lot of people (and the internet is full of examples
of this).
------
ryanelkins
This seems pretty obvious. I think most people realize that "bad behavior"
comes from being anonymous. This is why people who seem nice in person can be
total a-holes online behind a cloak of anonymity. I'd like to see some
solutions that could work without requiring people to give up their personal
information.
~~~
SapphireSun
It's not about people being anonymous or not that causes the good behavior,
it's that when people use their real name, they have risked something of value
- their reputation. The way to ensure good behavior is to require that people
take some sort of risk with something they value when they participate in your
site. This might be in the form of a deposit, using their real name, or the
loss of a potential reward.
~~~
_delirium
I agree _some_ stake is useful, but reputation is one with poor properties.
For one thing, it's not clear to me that the damage suffered is actually well
correlated with behaving well versus poorly in the forum; rather, a dominating
effect is simply what kinds of forums you choose. You will suffer a negative
effect to your reputation if you participate in a hentai forum; whether you
participate there as a troll or a valued user will not cause much additional
effect either way.
------
voidpointer
The inverse of the assertion made in this article (i.e. anonymity leads to bad
behavior) has already been theoretically predicted in "John Gabriel's Greater
Internet Dickwad Theory": <http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html>
------
dell9000
Very relevant article just went up on TechCrunch as well:
[http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/21/why-you-should-confess-
ever...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/21/why-you-should-confess-everything-
before-you-get-caught/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Learn To Code CSS For Free [Freebie] - jeffreyfox
http://www.cultofmac.com/215164/learn-to-code-css-for-free-freebie/
======
rman666
Sold Out? WTF?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Does the Neocortex Have Columns? A Theory of Learning Structure of the World [pdf] - blacksmythe
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/09/28/162263.full.pdf
======
Cacti
Jeff Hawkins gets shit on a lot in ML because his theories haven’t produced
models with results as good as the mainstream approach, but I’m glad they keep
working at it and keep coming up with interesting ideas.
Too much of ML these days is about some NN model that does 0.n% better than
SOTA on some specific task. Then you change one tiny parameter and he entire
thing breaks, and it turns out we didn’t understand why it was working at all.
~~~
eli_gottlieb
>Jeff Hawkins gets shit on a lot in ML because his theories haven’t produced
models with results as good as the mainstream approach, but I’m glad they keep
working at it and keep coming up with interesting ideas.
And also because Numenta's work isn't good, empirically-checkable neuroscience
either.
~~~
ewjordan
Not sure whether that was a jab at Numenta or not, but I do think the
combination of these two comments cuts to the heart of the PR problem for
Numenta: they're _neither_ trying to do 0.1% better on the classic perception
benchmarks than other algorithms do, nor trying to publish accurate, testable
descriptions of the true details of meatspace neuroscience.
To me, exploring alternative network architectures and algorithms seems an
extremely worthwhile goal even if it's only loosely tethered to actual
biology, but from a PR perspective they really need to be better about priming
the conversation if they want people to care.
Bad (neuroscience-focused): "We're doing a lot of research on neuroscience,
and finding some really interesting stuff, so we built a model that doesn't
exactly match the way the brain works but is still interesting. No, we haven't
tried to make it work to classify ImageNet test cases, that's not our goal.
But look, it's closer to biology, and we have working code that we're playing
with!"
Better (ML-focused): "We're developing a novel neural network architecture
that performs online unsupervised learning using only local update rules.
Though it performs competently at classic benchmarks X, Y, and Z when a small
WTA layer is thrown on top, it can also tackle problems A, B, and C that
classical deep learning networks can't make any progress on."
To be fair, I'm not even sure if Numenta's networks _could_ perform
competently at any classic benchmarks (I'm guessing that if they could, it
would take some work to get them to do so), and I have no idea what new
problems it could work on. But they really do need to reframe the conversation
and emphasize that sort of innovation if they want to be taken more seriously
- focusing on neuroscience underpinnings is not a great move if they're not
engaged in research that can actually win over neuroscientists, and just
pointing out that they're focusing on those things is not a way to win over
industry ML folks if they don't have any results to point at.
~~~
eli_gottlieb
>To be fair, I'm not even sure if Numenta's networks could perform competently
at any classic benchmarks (I'm guessing that if they could, it would take some
work to get them to do so), and I have no idea what new problems it could work
on. But they really do need to reframe the conversation and emphasize that
sort of innovation if they want to be taken more seriously - focusing on
neuroscience underpinnings is not a great move if they're not engaged in
research that can actually win over neuroscientists, and just pointing out
that they're focusing on those things is not a way to win over industry ML
folks if they don't have any results to point at.
It was definitely a jab, but I've also got some sympathy for their project. I
genuinely agree that, well, theoretical and computational neuroscience need to
become more _genuinely_ computational! We're seeing an emerging computational
paradigm for neuroscience that isn't _just_ about jamming "network
architectures" or "neural circuits" together and hoping something works; it
supposedly has strong mathematical principles.
Ok, so where's the code? Sincere question. Some papers do simulations in
Matlab, R, or Python that's just not shared. This includes even papers that
purport to be applying these neuroscience-derived principles to robotics
problems.
Computational cognitive science does a bunch better: _their_ custom-built
Matlab gets shared!
If we really believe our theories, we should put them to the computational
test. If we put them to the test and they don't work well, we should either
revise the theories, or revise the benchmarks. Maybe ImageNet classification
scores are a _bad idea_ for how to measure precise, accurate sensorimotor
inference! New benchmarks for measuring the performance of "real" cognitive
systems are a _great_ idea! Let's do it!
But that requires that we do the slow work of trying to merge
theoretical/computational neurosci, cognitive science, and ML/AI back
together, at least in some subfields. This is challenging, because nobody's
gonna give us our own journal for it until a few prestigious people advocate
for one.
------
electrograv
Full paper here:
[https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/09/28/162...](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/09/28/162263.full.pdf)
I always enjoy reading analysis/ideas/intuitions about how the brain works,
because it provides inspiration for machine learning improvements that can be
applied in the real world.
That said, I’m still optimistically waiting for Numenta (and Geoff Hinton’s
capsule theory) to set the new bar at one of the many difficult
image/speech/language/etc recognition challenges.
Ideas are great, but at the end of the day science moves forward when we
measure our ideas against reality. (To the credit of this paper, it does make
a series of predictions, though those seem extremely difficult to measure in
biological systems for the time being.)
------
platz
Skeptical. Previously the brain was a machine consisting of drives and
pulleys, just like the state of technology of the day. Now the brain is a
computer that runs deep learning models. It would be one thing to just say the
cortex has columns. It's another to go on and model what those columns are
doing with linear algebra. The coincidence that this picture emerges at the
same time as current fads in tech is too great to ignore
I am more interested in the work that is identifying different kinds of cells
e.g place cells
~~~
freeflight
> The coincidence that this picture emerges at the same time as current fads
> in tech is too great to ignore
It's no coincidence, I see it as a kind of reframing the issue from a
different perspective/approach and for that, we use whatever seems the best
framework of explanation we have at hand during that time. Gotta start
somewhere, can't try to paint a picture without a frame and at least some
colors.
One can easily see the evolution how the frameworks we use keep getting more
complex, from drives and pulleys to computers and NNs, so there clearly is
some progress in how we are trying to describe the workings of the
brain/consciousness.
In the end, it's also about what's the actual goal here: Trying to understand
the human brain/consciousness or trying to artificially create "consciousness"
or rather something resembling it. The later doesn't necessarily require the
former.
~~~
rhyolight_
Not consciousness, but intelligence. Big difference.
~~~
analogic
Is it? Personal theory is consciousness scales, like we're more conscious than
a bug, but a bug still definitely conscious.
Then like A.I. overlords / borg hive mind more conscious still.
~~~
namlem
How far down does the scale go? Are brainless animals like oysters conscious?
What about the mycelium network underneath a forest?
~~~
analogic
Well maybe better way to state, less 'conscious' and more 'things they're
conscious of.'
------
brad0
Great to see numenta in the news again. On Intelligence was the book that got
me excited about biologically based machine learning. The methods that in that
book is very different to anything else I’ve seen in current “trendy” ML.
------
rhyolight_
Here are some video resources to help explain this theory:
\-
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJJn9VS4rk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJJn9VS4rk)
\-
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h-cz7yY-G8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h-cz7yY-G8)
~~~
pault
Here's another very interesting talk from Jeff Hawkins about modelling the
neocortex:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izO2_mCvFaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izO2_mCvFaw)
------
Upvoter33
The world needs more work being done in the way Hawkins and co. are doing it,
and less in the mold of most deep learning/ML work. Why? He's actually trying
to connect building intelligent machines with biology. This is a huge problem,
but so few are working on it. Rather, we are all distracted by deep learning
because of its recent successes in very specific problem areas. In a few
years, when we run into its limits, Hawkins and people doing work like this
will have a chance to shine (if they produce something that works, of course).
~~~
bbctol
Deepmind does a ton of work in meat neuroscience, and are actually publishing
useful research in the field (a recent if somewhat controversial review at
[http://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(17)30509-3](http://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273\(17\)30509-3))
And they're about the most prominent deep learning group I can think of.
------
skybrian
There is also a summary at:
[https://blog.acolyer.org](https://blog.acolyer.org)
~~~
mikhailfranco
... probably not by pure coincidence.
p.s. specific dated link [https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/25/why-does-the-
neocortex-h...](https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/25/why-does-the-neocortex-
have-columns-a-theory-of-learning-the-structure-of-the-world/)
------
Double_Cast
> Error! Problem, or Page Not Found
> Sorry, the page you were looking for does not exist.
Link is broken. From browsing, I believe the correct link is
[https://numenta.com/papers-videos-and-
more/resources/layers-...](https://numenta.com/papers-videos-and-
more/resources/layers-and-columns/)
~~~
Avery3R
The link works fine if you disable javascript. Still weird though
------
nopacience
Understand how the brain works means understand how we the humans see and
understand the world and ourselfs within it. The brain organically and
selectivelly selects what to learn and which information shou ld be retained.
Our brain receives training since birthdays. Then the family implements some
of their own training then school and world. The brain never stops.
Great job Numenta !!
------
mholt
I'm getting "Error! Problem, or Page Not Found Sorry, the page you were
looking for does not exist."
Edit: Weird, I just closed my browser and tried again, and the article looks
like it flashed into the screen then was replaced by the error message.
Happens repeatedly on Chrome on Android...
~~~
dang
I'm seeing that too. Ok, we'll change the URL from
[https://numenta.com/papers/why-does-the-neocortex-have-
layer...](https://numenta.com/papers/why-does-the-neocortex-have-layers-and-
columns/) to the pdf of the paper. There's also a summary at
[https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/25/why-does-the-
neocortex-h...](https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/25/why-does-the-neocortex-
have-columns-a-theory-of-learning-the-structure-of-the-world/) that other
commenters have mentioned.
------
adamnemecek
I'm probably talking out of my ass but I'm somewhat suspect of a cortex having
straight up columns. I'm curious whether these are artifacts of the fact that
linear algebra seems to be the dominant algebra in ML/modeling of human
perception. Recently I've been dipping my feet into geometric algebra which
seems to be the superior algebra for just about anything you can think of
(human perception but also like all of physics, Maxwell's 4 equations are
reduced to a single equation in GA) and it's particularly better for reasoning
about spaces which this seems to be all about.
And unlike linear algebra it actually makes sense (e.g. why is cross product
only in three dimensions?, wtf are determinants esp. in the context of matrix
division all about?).
This blog post introduces GA and talks about it's relationship to human
perception.
[https://slehar.wordpress.com/2014/03/18/clifford-algebra-
a-v...](https://slehar.wordpress.com/2014/03/18/clifford-algebra-a-visual-
introduction/)
~~~
lamename
Cortical columns exist [1]; think perpendicular to the surface of the cortex
[2, 2nd image, or just image search "cortical column"]. This is due to the
morphology of cortical neurons. My understanding is that a column can be
thought of as a functional unit, and passing information across columns adds
complexity.
Of course biology is messy and there's tons of variation depending on which
brain region you're looking at, but Visual Cortex was one of the earliest
places this was observed. It gets complicated and detailed quickly, and I'm
somewhat out of my element here.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortical_column](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortical_column)
[2] [http://www.mbfbioscience.com/blog/2012/01/neurolucida-
helps-...](http://www.mbfbioscience.com/blog/2012/01/neurolucida-helps-
florida-researchers-reconstruct-a-region-of-the-rat-brain/)
~~~
SubiculumCode
There are, of course lateral connections between columns, but the columns are
very real.
I dont see what geomettic algebra has to with it, as the grandparent suggests.
~~~
adamnemecek
They are performing spatial reasoning and GA is a better algebra for that.
~~~
SubiculumCode
I mean I don't see why geometric algebra bears on the factual existence of
column-like structure perpendicular to the cortical surface in real brains.
Geometric algebra may bear on what those columns do, but it is not relevant to
whether the columns exist. This is a matter of observing network wiring from
brain preparations.
~~~
kortex
I think it has something to do with the power of building hierarchical layers
of abstraction, to make increasingly precise predictions about the world.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Game Theory Solved a Religious Mystery - ilike
http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2008/06/10/how-game-theory-solved-a-religious-mystery/
======
leelin
A neat twist to the standard pro-rata division we see a lot in bankruptcies.
What I like best is this method penalizes the creditor for extending too much
credit. Note that the ones who are hurt most by the divide-contested-amount
method are the creditors who over-estimated the debtors assets, while the
creditors lending smaller amounts get a small bonus over pro-rata.
Edit: I think the (estate_size == 150) case sucks for the 200 and 300
creditors, though, because they correctly believed the estate would be worth
more than 100. It is "pairwise-consistent" as the article defines it.
~~~
DannoHung
What about the situations where the 300 or 200 lender made the loans first
though?
~~~
tlholaday
A lending contract can specify that all subsequent loans be subordinate, so
the lender who lent first had the option of making such a specification.
------
RiderOfGiraffes
Here's the discussion from the last time this was submitted:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=461076>
------
alfredp
Poker players would instantly recognize the similarity of the money splitting
problem to negotiating a deal at the final table of a poker tournament (say
final 2, 3, 4). It isn't always about dividing the payouts proportional to
size of your stack and there are human factors involved.
------
ihodes
Great article, but I couldn't help thinking the whole time that while game
theory certainly and apparently can be used to describe the split of the
estate, so could simple pattern-finding: the contested sum(s) is(/are) split
evenly, and the uncontested amount (if any) is given to the one owed the most
money.
But perhaps game theory makes the pattern more evident, Regardless, it was a
good read.
------
dejb
This is a pretty lame 'religious mystery' in my view. There doesn't seem to be
any real wisdom in the method of splitting the debt and the explanation seems
fairly straight forward. It isn't even new. Why people find this interesting
is beyond me. What's next 'A numerical analyses of the Book of Revelations and
Daniel'?
~~~
sethg
Even though the Talmud is a religious document, the discussions in it cover a
wide range of topics, including theology, ritual law, civil law (which, for
observant Jews, _is_ religious), medicine, demonology, funny stories about
what happened when Rabbi So-and-So got drunk, etc., etc. It’s like fifth-
century Usenet.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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