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Singapore telcos pick Nokia, Ericsson over Huawei to build main 5G networks - 80mph
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-telecoms-5g/singapore-telcos-pick-nokia-ericsson-over-huawei-to-build-main-5g-networks-idUSKBN23V1PG
======
mytailorisrich
Singapore tends to have good relations with China. I'm sure everyone will have
a piece of the cake
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Beautiful Web Type (new version) – detailed guide to open-source type - ubuwaits
https://beautifulwebtype.com
======
ehmorris
These are the kind of specimen pages that Google should be showing on Google
Fonts. Love that it breaks down ligatures, ordinals, and special characters
like arrows.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ARM Processor – Sowing the Seeds of Success [video] - tambourine_man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jOJl8gRPyQ
======
vegabook
I love arm and own a cubietruck and a Pi. But my initial hopes of clustering
up tons of arms together have been dashed by a very hard dose of reality: the
bog-standard core i7 in my Dell M3800 is _50x_ faster. Try this on your pi in
iPython:
import numpy as np
xx = np.random.rand(1000000).reshape((1000, 1000))
%timeit np.linalg.eig(xx)
67 seconds on my RPi B 2, 1.2 seconds on my i7 (admittedly, using MKL
optimizations but the factor would still be 15x without it, and arguably, MKL
is simply making full use of the Intel instruction set). I get 0.65 on my
desktop Precision Xeon. Fully 100x faster.
So yes ARM is great. But let's be honest, Intel is vastly, _vastly_ ahead when
it comes to anything that is not a toy.
~~~
danellis
> let's be honest, Intel is vastly, vastly ahead when it comes to anything
> that is not a toy.
That just shows a lack of understanding of the market. Not every application
needs powerful processors. Sometimes they need low-power or low-cost
processors. Something is not a "toy" when it is specifically engineered to
meet different but equally serious requirements.
ARM-based processors _vastly_ outsell Intel processors.
~~~
JoeAltmaier
Latest figures I can find (2012) show Intel outselling all ARM/mobile by 5X.
That must have changed?
~~~
Veratyr
Intel during Q3 2014 set a record 100 million processor sales that quarter[1].
During the same period, ARM reports 1.1 billion "processors and smartcards"
shipped[2]. As for how many of those are in smartphones (powerful), ARM is
estimated to power 90% of smartphones[3], of which 326 million were sold
during Q3 2014[4].
If you're after dollar sales, Q3 2014 had them at $320m[2] and Intel at
$14.6b[5].
[1] [http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-finance-record-
revenu...](http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-finance-record-
revenue-3q13,27889.html)
[2] [http://www.arm.com/about/arm-holdings-plc-reports-results-
fo...](http://www.arm.com/about/arm-holdings-plc-reports-results-for-the-
third-quarter-and-nine-months-ended-30-september-2014.php)
[3] [http://www.forbes.com/sites/darcytravlos/2013/02/28/arm-
hold...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/darcytravlos/2013/02/28/arm-holdings-and-
qualcomm-the-winners-in-mobile/)
[4]
[https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS25224914](https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS25224914)
[5]
[http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014...](http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/10/14/intel-
reports-record-third-quarter-revenue-of-146-billion)
~~~
JoeAltmaier
Why are smartcards conflated with processors, do you think?
~~~
danellis
[http://www.arm.com/markets/embedded/smart-
cards.php](http://www.arm.com/markets/embedded/smart-cards.php)
------
acqq
Also the parts of the interview of prof Furber:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WG549i3YY](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WG549i3YY)
"Building the BBC Micro (The Beeb) - Computerphile"
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izy6h_vvSxU](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izy6h_vvSxU)
"The Path Towards ARM & BBC B - Computerphile"
------
todd-davies
I'm lucky enough to have Professor Furber as a lecturer at Manchester. His
insights into how mobile systems are designed and engineered are fascinating,
as is his work with SpiNNaker project.
~~~
danellis
Me too, in 1997! He often referred to his work from the 80s, and it was great
to hear it from the horse's mouth.
------
pjmlp
Back in the day I remember going through Computer Shopper (UK version) and
learning about the Archimedes in alternative computing section.
Sadly never saw one live.
~~~
danellis
I grew up with Acorn computers. The Archimedes was an amazing machine for its
time, and for an aspiring programmer, having a structured BBC BASIC (fastest
interpreted BASIC in the world) with a built-in ARM assembler made for some
quick learning.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Metrics and Hiring - lukas
http://joyfulgrit.com/2013/10/29/metrics-and-hiring/
======
matt
Great post. Would also be interested in seeing a breakdown of school strength
across the referrals. And did you count Stanford as Ivy League? :)
~~~
lukas
Yeah, because I went there :). It was super subjective, but I'm sure that
changing the details wouldn't change the conclusion.
~~~
webmaven
Aha. 'Because I went there'. If your initial hires (presumably from your
personal network) were from similarly highly ranked schools, then you have a
strong correlation between social networks and school strength. Note that when
no one knows the hire, school strength turns out to be irrelevant.
------
dpritchett
I would imagine that it's hard to separate cause from effect in the case of
well-known schools and employment performance. The cumulative benefits of
working challenging, rewarding jobs should pile up throughout a career.
Naturally folks with an easy-to-sell pedigree are going to have a good shot at
securing those jobs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Caddy, a cross-platform HTTP/2 web server - mholt
https://caddyserver.com
======
mholt
Hi HN. This was my hobby project over the last 4 months and it kept me sane
through my hardest semester. Feedback and contributions are totally welcome. I
know Caddy has a long way to go, but it's already replaced nginx and Apache
for my own needs. I figured it was time to make this a community-driven
project for all who are interested.
(Incidentally, I really hope my little Digital Ocean droplet can handle the
load. Wouldn't that be ironic? Anyway, if you have trouble, try the plain
HTTP/1.1 site or the GitHub project page:
[https://github.com/mholt/caddy](https://github.com/mholt/caddy))
~~~
jsd1982
Slightly off-topic: Try serverhub.com instead of digitalocean.com. They have
much more flexible offerings and much more storage available for cheaper
prices. I'm running a bunch of web sites off a single $18/mo plan VPS that
gives me 120GB of SSD storage.
~~~
czk
Are they OpenVZ?
~~~
serverhub
Yes, all of our VPS plans are OpenVZ.
~~~
sbuk
Any plans for European datacenters?
~~~
serverhub
sbuk,
We do not have any locations offshore yet, however we are looking to expand
and open new datacenters in the years to come.
------
buro9
It's worth noting:
[https://github.com/mholt/caddy/blob/master/server/server.go](https://github.com/mholt/caddy/blob/master/server/server.go)
That the actual web server in use is:
[https://github.com/bradfitz/http2](https://github.com/bradfitz/http2)
Which isn't to detract from the Caddy project which offers a tidy set of
configuration options so that the lib is more like an Nginx executable with
config files.
Perhaps the README can be updated though, as "Caddy binaries are available for
nearly every platform and has no dependencies" is a bit misleading. The binary
produced by Go may not have dependencies, but the Go code itself has a few
large dependencies.
~~~
jfolkins
bradfitz's http2 package will be rolled into Go's core upon completion so I
don't feel it is at all inappropriate for Matt to state "No Dependencies."
~~~
mmgutz
I also had the impression this was some new web server when Caddy seems to be
configuration glue of a WIP HTTP/2 server and external packages.
~~~
jfolkins
I see what you mean. That is a fair point.
------
slang800
I'm a little put-off by the baked-in Markdown compiler. It's partly concerning
because of the many dialects of Markdown, and the various configuration
options available for each one (which a server shouldn't need to support).
But also, in terms of Separation of Concerns, it doesn't seem like the server
should be responsible for compilation tasks when it doesn't need to be. It
would be much better to move that out into a separate tool for compiling
Markdown to HTML (perhaps on-save, for authoring) - many of those already
exist. Or, if you really wanted to perform compilation during a request, it
could at least be moved out of the server core, into a FastCGI script (perhaps
something like
[https://menteslibres.net/luminos/](https://menteslibres.net/luminos/)).
Oh, and that whole method of using a `Caddyfile` at the root of the project,
for configuration, is quite nice.
~~~
mholt
I actually agree with you. I wonder if the Markdown middleware will turn into
more of a "static site generator" anyway. There's definitely some room for
change in this area of its development, so if you'd like, I'd welcome your
involvement.
------
floatboth
Hi! I've been working on my own nginx replacement in Go that uses
bradfitz/http2:
[https://github.com/myfreeweb/443d](https://github.com/myfreeweb/443d)
It has random load balancing, glob patterns for hosts, SSH proxying (like
sslh) and, most importantly, proxying to UNIX sockets. And less code.
Maybe you could use my code to implement some of these features :-)
~~~
mholt
Thanks for sharing! I'll keep my eye on it. Will probably refer to it when I
add load balancing and unix socket support.
------
js4all
Great job, but I noticed that the server gets just a B rating (ssllabs) due
to:
- rc4 acceptance
- Session resumption (caching) No (IDs empty)
- no OCSP stapling
- Next Protocol Negotiation (NPN) Yes, but not signalling a http/1.1 fallback
I found no settings to change the TLS configuration. Is there any way to
change it?
~~~
mholt
Not yet, but that's coming. Wanted to start simple and add more controls as
needed. I'm cautious about changing any of the TLS stuff, especially with
Let's Encrypt coming up soon.
------
astrocat
As a designer who's been attempting to pick up some basic ops proficiency with
apache over the past month or so, this looks brilliantly simple. Thanks!
~~~
mholt
I'm glad! That's exactly what it was designed for (and to scratch my own
itches about configuring and maintaining other web servers).
------
ebbv
There's a problem with your "For Designers/For Bloggers" section of the page
rendering in Safari. The sections should be rendering side by side, I assume,
but are vertically stacked instead.
Also, if you want to convince me to switch to Caddy from Nginx, perhaps a page
with succinct explanation of its advantages would be helpful?
Lastly, this is just my opinion, but I don't want my web server to have a
Markdown interpreter in it. That's not a job for the web server. It's very
easy to put a very simple index file in front of Markdown to provide that
functionality.
~~~
mholt
Ah, Safari. #FlexboxProbs I'll try to fix that soon!
Thanks for the rest of your feedback. I agree that a list of advantages needs
to be more available. I'm looking forward to making that soon!
------
haneefmubarak
So when you say Caddy supports serving Markdown as HTML, is that normal,
boring Markdown only, or does it implement CommonMark (or something else
entirely)?
Also, do you have any plans to make Caddy support domain proxying (or whatever
it's called) where you can specify that requests for certain sites should be
proxied to a service running on another host + port combination (if it doesn't
support that already)?
Definitely a cool project though. I'll keep an eye on it. Keep up the
excellent work!
~~~
anonfunction
Not to detract from Caddy but we just released Kong[1] which is specifically
tailored to what you described.
1\. [https://github.com/Mashape/kong/](https://github.com/Mashape/kong/)
~~~
mholt
Kong looks amazing! The performance is impressive.
------
ccalvert
I like the support for markdown... I wonder if other web servers are thinking
of supporting or already support that feature? Does it recognize GitHub
Flavored Markdown (GFM)?
~~~
shurcooL
mholt said that Markdown support can be enhanced in a comment above
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9453216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9453216)).
There exists a native Go package to render GFM, see second from the top at
[https://github.com/avelino/awesome-go#text-
processing](https://github.com/avelino/awesome-go#text-processing).
~~~
Spiritus
Not to sound ungrateful. But would it be possible to split your GFM package
into its own repo? Because it's currently a PITA to vendor because it pulls
half the world with it?
~~~
shurcooL
Absolutely, that's a fair request.
Someone has already opened an issue about it at
[https://github.com/shurcooL/go/issues/19](https://github.com/shurcooL/go/issues/19),
and I'm planning to take care of it.
Edit: Oh, I guess that was you.
------
brianzelip
Really nice work on the documentation. As a front end designer who doesn't do
much server config, I'm finding it very easy get my head around it.
------
falcolas
There are a few directives I'm used to from Nginx which seem to be absent from
a quick perusal of the docs, but perhaps you can help?
Returning a non 200 or 300 redirect code.
Stripping headers
Deciding status on more than server name and path
Finally, there was discussion earlier on HN on how to write plugins which
communicate via sockets... Might be an interesting addition to consider adding
to your middleware API.
~~~
mholt
Not yet. But I would love to know your thoughts about how you'd like header
stripping to work, as well as more information about the others; feel free to
open an issue so I don't forget. :)
------
Zikes
Looking good! I really like the list of features in your roadmap, those will
be some big wins that will really set Caddy apart from other web server
software.
One recommendation I would make is the addition of some simple load balancing,
even round robin would be great.
~~~
mholt
Love the idea. One of my long-term goals is for Caddy to be able to connect
with other instances of Caddy, both for site deployment and load balancing.
------
ssutch3
Hey, I'm curious. How are you producing the build for all those platforms?
~~~
mholt
Gox. [https://github.com/mitchellh/gox](https://github.com/mitchellh/gox)
------
mitchi
You are probably aware of this. But on Windows and Chrome, when I try to open
a documentation page for "templates", it downloads a templates.gz file to my
computer. It does this for 90% of the documentation pages. Very annoying, I
have to cleanup a few files now :) Other than that the documentation is really
lacking. I wanted to spend time looking into the work you've done but I
haven't managed to do much besides having a static file server because of the
bad documentation. I starred the project on github, hopefully it will keep
getting better.
~~~
mholt
Oops. Will try to pinpoint that gz problem. What kind of things would you yet
like to see in the documentation?
------
Sir_Cmpwn
To what extent does this leverage the capabilities of HTTP/2? Can I do things
like give a higher priority to certain content?
~~~
mholt
For that, Caddy relies on this library:
[https://github.com/bradfitz/http2](https://github.com/bradfitz/http2) \- I
know that there is some dependency tree/prioritization work being done.
~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
Thanks for the info. Consider that you probably won't just be able to obtain
this feature from http2 for free - you probaby also want to make your
Caddyfiles support some smooth configs for setting these sorts of options.
~~~
mholt
For sure. I'll keep an eye on the progress of the library to see what will be
configurable.
------
bsimpson
404 Not Found
~~~
castis
His site is being hugged to death ATM.
[https://github.com/mholt/caddy/](https://github.com/mholt/caddy/)
------
tallmankitch
Interesting project, starring it for the future. Especially like the custom
headers, gzip and simple config file. I'm curious are there similar projects
like this in Python/Ruby that are more mature? With auto-reload and more
production-ready documentation?
------
CatsoCatsoCatso
[https://caddyserver.com/blogging](https://caddyserver.com/blogging) Is giving
me a 404.
Edit: Following the link from the homepage works, but hitting F5 or loading it
without a referrer provides a 404. Weird.
------
tigeba
This looks like a cool project. Is it just me or has Caddy carried on the
grand web server tradition of using a config file format that is sort of like,
but not quite any other existing format.
------
pbowyer
Can the server serve HTTP/1 too? If not, does anyone know of a server that can
serve both HTTP/1 and HTTP/2?
~~~
mholt
Yep. A client must declare that it supports HTTP/2, otherwise the server will
fall back to HTTP/1.1. Also, any plaintext HTTP connection will not be HTTP/2
(major implementations of HTTP/2 don't support plaintext).
~~~
pbowyer
Thank you, I never realised that was how it worked!
------
milankragujevic
Excellent! I might start using it for some servers, however nginx is still the
go-to server for high traffic cdn servers.
------
jordic
Nice job gopher! I will try to deploy on some of my personal sites.
Is this the first http2 server released?
~~~
mmgutz
If I'm not mistaken it is Brad Fitz HTTP2' work from the Go team and will be
in the standard library in the future.
------
Keats
Text fonts (not the headers) are hard to read on chrome/firefox on archlinux.
Looks good otherwise!
------
Siecje
Anyone know how you can reverse proxy based on authenticated user?
With Caddy or another solution.
~~~
jamra
Sticky sessions usually work by IP address. They route requests from the same
IP address to the same server.
Nginx+ claims it does so (I didn't purchase it). HAProxy can be configured to
use sticky sessions.
~~~
Siecje
I would like to send each user to a different location, based on credentials.
------
mwexler
Apache v2 license, in case anyone was wondering
------
mihad
Awesome! I will try it for my personal website
------
alixaxel
Great work Matt!
------
dutchbrit
Any benchmarks available?
~~~
mholt
I recommend running your own based on your needs, but I did some very simple,
un-scientific benchmarks[1] anyway.
[1] [https://caddyserver.com/docs/faq](https://caddyserver.com/docs/faq)
------
jamra
Very nice!
------
influx6
Keep it rocking bro!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What Poison? Bacterium Uses Arsenic To Build DNA and Other Molecules - pama
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6009/1302.full
======
RiderOfGiraffes
Requires a sign-in - does it add anything not already included here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962894> \- go.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962893> \- nytimes.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962846> \- nature.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962696> \- longislandpress.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962386> \- gizmodo.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962200> \- gizmodo.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962110> \- google.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823> \- skymania.com
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1953228> \- kottke.org
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The “No Poo” Method - mparramon
http://www.developingandstuff.com/2015/02/no-poo.html?h=n
======
_almosnow
You didn't have messy hair to start with. Try going "no poo" with long or
curly hair, see you then.
------
jezfromfuture
great post not worthless at all.
~~~
mparramon
Sarcastic?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Red Hat set to surpass Sun in market capitalization - peter123
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10146879-16.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
======
peter123
Sun failed miserably in embracing Linux and cloud computing (as a service).
They hung on to their old business that was getting commoditized rapidly, plus
having huge dependencies on Wall St. customers didn't help.
~~~
gaius
I am pretty sure you could rent time on a Sun cloud long before there was EC2
or AppEngine. They were doing $1/CPU/hour back in '04. Except they called it a
"grid", not a cloud.
~~~
wmf
Yes, but then they basically never improved it. Hardware got dramatically
cheaper, but Sun didn't drop prices AFAIK. People started wanting to run Web
servers and databases in the cloud, but Sun did nothing. Now they are racing
to catch up by productizing Caroline and Q-Layer.
~~~
gaius
It's true they are focussed on compute, but it's also true that EC2 and
AppEngine are _not_. I'm not entirely sure how you'd, for example run an FEA
or CFD job on AppEngine.
~~~
wmf
I've heard that MPI works (granted, at 1Gbps speed) on EC2 and it's only
$0.20/core/hour. When EC2 is cheaper and strictly more flexible than Sun Grid,
it's hard to argue why Sun Grid exists at all. Maybe that's why Sun shut it
down.
------
byrneseyeview
"Set to surpass"? Market value is based on stock price, and stock price is, by
definition, the point at which there is as much demand for buying a stock as
for selling it. So it sounds like Cnet doesn't have an actual story until Red
Hat goes up, or Sun goes down. They're just pushing a fairly cheesy,
meaningless non-story to get in ahead of whoever is planning on writing the
slightly less meaningless non-story about when Red Hat's market cap _does_
surpass Sun's.
------
dimitar
What would happen to Java when/if Sun becomes bankrupt or irrelevant?
~~~
gaius
IBM already spend more on Java than Sun do.
------
jcapote
Sad; It seems the best product is not always who wins.
~~~
SwellJoe
I don't understand your meaning. Linux is a very fine operating system, and
for many purposes (like desktops and small servers) it is vastly superior to
Solaris. Red Hat has some of the most productive and important Linux kernel
developers (along with dozens of other developers working on Gnome, databases,
and a lot more) on their payroll, so they're definitely involved in the
making.
Solaris is so embarrassingly bad in a few areas that I get pretty angry every
time I have to use it. It makes it even worse when I use the stuff that Sun
has done _really_ well (ZFS, Zones, dtrace), that I then have to use their
stupidly bad package management tools, their neanderthal old UNIX utilities
(or install the GNU tools myself, and remember to use the g variants), and
their general disdain for anything not invented by Sun.
~~~
gaius
Red Hat have a luxury Sun have denied themselves: breaking stuff between
versions. Do you know they won't support you if you upgrade RHEL4 to 5 in-
place? They want you to start again from the bare metal. Sun hang onto the
legacy stuff because they _guarantee_ nothing will break when you upgrade.
Now fair enough, maybe that's not so important in a world where you have a
"cloud" of a thousand identical machines that you just build from gold master
images and throw away when they break, but Solaris is not like it is because
Sun doesn't know how to get new versions of their userland. Rather, they've
chosen not to.
~~~
wmf
Sun finally fixed this problem by forking. Solaris will remain crufty and
backwards compatible until the beginning of time. OpenSolaris supposedly threw
out all the cruft and has modern userland.
~~~
SwellJoe
By some definition of "modern".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
German police raid homes over Facebook hate speech - vezycash
http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/13/12170590/facebook-hate-speech-germany-police-raid
======
ythl
Europe is so progressive. Protecting the "social climate" of the people
through censorship and raids.
~~~
arkitaip
What part of illegal did you not understand?
~~~
Overtonwindow
That's the whole point, it should not be illegal. Suppression of speech which
does not explicitly advocate for violence is oppression. Plain and simple. You
may disagree with the speech, it may be distasteful, hateful, or whatever, but
no government should be allowed to oppress the free expression of ideas. You
should have freedom of speech, not freedom from speech.
~~~
whamlastxmas
Freedom of speech to the extent that we have in the US is not very common.
There are tons of laws in Germany specifically the limit free speech due to
being very sensitive about Holocaust deniers and people who try to incite mass
hatred.
Even Canadian free speech laws are much more limited than the US. See the
ridiculous "twitter harassment case" from last year/early this year.
~~~
pjc50
US freedom of speech in action: [https://theintercept.com/2016/07/12/after-
dallas-shootings-p...](https://theintercept.com/2016/07/12/after-dallas-
shootings-police-arrest-people-for-criticizing-cops-on-facebook-and-twitter/)
~~~
whamlastxmas
Three of those were people directly and clearly threatening to kill a police
officer. A fourth one was saying she'd kill a police officer if she was pulled
over, and got a "disorderly conduct" charge which may very well get thrown
out. She was arrested and immediately released.
Freedom of speech is working fine aside from NSLs.
------
javajosh
Words are messages, and government always reserves the right to punish the use
of some messages, and prevent them. And in this, it is a matter of degree, not
kind.
For hate speech in Germany, I firmly believe that the story should not end at
"police raids" but rather at "and the neo-nazi was adopted by Syrian
immigrants and shown great love and compassion, and he fell in love with a
nice Syrian girl and they will be married in the fall." But that has more to
do with what the punishment is.
While I'm against hate speech laws in general because of the withering
slippery-slope argument, Germany really is a special case because of the
holocaust.
Last but not least, this news article implies that _we are being monitored_.
We might not trigger visible action, or any action, but our messages are
running a gauntlet of predicates that, if any flip to "true" will get human
eyeballs on our messages, which may yield humans wielding guns in our living
rooms. Such is life.
------
elgabogringo
Just a reminder that we are the only country with the first amendment and a
constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech.
~~~
Cenk
Not true. Germany does in fact have a constitutional right to free speech.
>Freedom of expression is granted by Article 5 of the Basic Law for the
Federal Republic of Germany, which also states that there is no censorship and
freedom of expression that may be limited by law.
The US is in fact the only developed country that has no laws banning hate
speech, including no legal recourse for outright lies like Holocaust denial.
~~~
strictnein
"Free speech, except..." isn't free speech, no matter how well-intentioned it
may be.
~~~
brewdad
Then Free Speech doesn't exist anywhere in the world.
------
mapleoin
The problem I see with this is: how do they know someone is who they claim to
be on Facebook? There's no indication in the article that they collaborated
with Facebook and an ISP to link a user's post with their (possibly dynamic)
IP address and home address. There's a big leap from "it appears someone
posted hate speech using your facebook account" to "you are guilty of posting
hate speech on facebook".
~~~
yAnonymous
Facebook is readily complying with all of this, as they do in all countries
with similar government censorship. They even gave a private company working
for the German government access to delete Facebook posts as they see fit.
[http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/15/9329119/facebook-
germany-h...](http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/15/9329119/facebook-germany-hate-
speech-xenophobia-migrant-refugee)
[http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Facebook-
Hasskommenta...](http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Facebook-
Hasskommentare-werden-nun-in-Deutschland-geprueft-3071824.html) (German)
It's not too far-fetched to assume that they have access to IPs.
------
facepalm
In the German newspapers I read it was reported that the statements in
question were actual calls for violence, not merely hate speech (I guess "kill
all xyz" vs "xyz are evil").
So the police statement is rather misleading. To be sure, some official
institutions have been involved in questionable campaigns against "hate
speech" recently, so perhaps they wanted to show that they are making
progress. It seems likely to me that the raid was actually about real illegal
activities, rather than hateful opinions.
I think even in the US calling for somebodies death is not really protected by
"free speech"?
Nevertheless it is worrying that official institutions lent their name to the
questionable campaign against hate speech. (Questionable because it was
initiated by several people with a track record of hate speech, and because it
seems to be designed to simply silence unwelcome opinions, as hate speech is
not clearly defined by the campaigners).
------
hsod
Hard to judge this without knowing specifically what was said, but it doesn't
seem great.
I don't believe that government forces should enter peoples homes and imprison
them for expressing their opposition to immigration, which could easily be
cast as "xenophobia".
------
guard-of-terra
> Operation targeted 60 people accused of posting far-right content to a
> private Facebook group
Does "private" Facebook means what I think it means? I.e. outsiders won't see
this at all? What's the problem there then? Next time they'll raid my bedroom
because they don't like what goes on there?
> most of the suspects were accused of posting... xenophobic... messages
What's wrong in being xenophobic, from moral perspective? Is it now a
requirement for me to avoid feeling emotions against people who I don't
approve?
> "strong rise in verbal radicalism"
It's definitely easier to combat verbal xenophobes than real terrorists. First
of all, they don't shoot back at you.
------
venomsnake
> In its press release, the BKA said that the operation carried out this week
> aims to combat a "strong rise in verbal radicalism."
Raiding homes of people posting stupid private shit on the internet is also
great way to get more physical radicalism.
~~~
king_phil
It is more than stupid shit, it is illegal stupid shit. Please read (edit:
replaced, was "the") the German legal code. From your argument it would be
better not to pursue crime just because you _might_ "(to) get more physical
radicalism"? That is clearly not justice.
~~~
frabbit
That's right. If it's the law then it must be right. It's a simple way of
thinking that has worked out very well in many situations.
Meanwhile: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/15/angela-
merkel-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/15/angela-merkel-
agrees-prosecution-comedian-erdogan-poem)
~~~
king_phil
You forget that in Germany we have "Gewaltenteilung", meaning that
legislation, judiciary and executive are separated. This is a concept that is
fundamental to our country and culture. If the law is not okay it is not in
the power of the executive to change, not enforce or bend it. There is a
separate process for it that must be invoked. (In this case) there seems to be
no critical mass that calls for changing this particular law. And you can rest
assured that we have a very active public discussion about changes to the
criminal code right now, with thousands of people actively participating. As
you might be better informed the me, could you please cite at least one
instance of what these people or people in similar cases said/wrote that
should NOT the punishable, but is under current law?
_edit_ : citing the decision to allow prosecution of Böhmermann reveals how
little you understand the German legal system. The article is misleading at
best and not covering the legal grounds and background correctly at all.
~~~
king_phil
@frabbit exactly, but they did NOT yell "fire" but "open fire on the
immigrants" (literally: in one instance the comment was posted beneath a
picture of a immigrant child "you need a flamethrower to get rid of these
bugs", with bugs might not be the best translation here) posted besides Nazi
symbols.
At least for me, this makes a difference.
_edit_ : I am going out on a limb here, but I thought exactly this was one of
the purposes of RICO. Telling someone to commit a crime in a formed group is a
crime and not free speech. I am a total amateur in US criminal code, is this
understanding correct?
~~~
frabbit
You are correct. Legal codes in many countries criminalize the act of speech
itself.
This even goes all the way back to the concept of "assault" in anglo-saxon
legal traditions[1] (which is the simple threat part of the pair "assault and
battery". Many of us use "assault" to mean a physical attack, but it seems
originally to be simply causing someone to fear.)
Again, though, you are arguing that because something is the law then that in
itself makes it moral and useful.
Those who make slippery-slope arguments about the vesting of power in the
state seem increasingly persuasive when we see the turning of the act of
speaking into a crime itself. For further examples of "European" countries
which illustrate the dangers you could look at Ireland's blasphemy laws which
still stand.
1\.
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault)
~~~
king_phil
I don't necessarily argue that everything is right because it is the law, I
argue that THIS exact law is right. It might not be for you, but it is for me.
And seemingly not only for.me, but for a lot of people in this country.
Otherwise there would be a (stronger) opposition to this law. I think we might
have to recognize that the German culture is different from yours (US I
suppose it is) and that we simply cannot expect to agree on everything. This
might be because we are grown up in the system that protects us both
adequately and we therefore think it is the best one, only because it is a
adequate one. This goes both ways, e.g. you are right to think your system is
better while I am right to think ours is. And exactly that tolerance is what I
would like to not only see but DEMAND from other people. And I believe this
exact law is right in a way that it makes it harder for people that don't
recognize that all people are created and to be treated equal to express and
propagate their beliefs. I think you could even find a similar or maybe exact
same argument for your position. I respect that but hope you have other ways
to ensure no one creates a climate of fear, hatred and violence (physical and
non-physical) against people that are different. This law will not be
everything the German culture sets against that climate but is one piece of
our puzzle.
~~~
frabbit
> you are right to think your system is better while I am right to think ours
> is. And exactly that tolerance is what I would like to not only see but
> DEMAND from other people.
I am not interested in the personalization of the argument or grounding it in
lived experience of any sort.
Objectively the system which you extoll results in censorship, in this case of
criticism of a near-dictator involved in genocide against the Kurdish people.
I believe that enabling a state to censor what people can say is dangerous to
democracy. I think this is adequately demonstrated through numerous historical
and current examples.
Your statement of "tolerance" is meaningless because you will be unaware of
other viewpoints of which you must be tolerant when they are censored.
Ironically as this discussion is deemed offensive to the moderators of HN this
entire discussion has been effaced.
~~~
king_phil
I can't follow. How is this incident related to any genocide, dictatorship,
erdogan... what?
I have the feeling you are just cherry picking this to troll on and not
interested in talking about the different dogmatics of legal systems. I didn't
want to personalize the discussion, just replace "you" and "me" with "any
person from your belief system" and "any person from my belief system". It
looks to me that you are not interested in thinking about other people's
opinion and/or belief system. Now THAT was a personal remark.
~~~
frabbit
> I can't follow. How is this incident related to any genocide, dictatorship,
> erdogan... what?
Really? So, you can't see the link between the German state's power to choose
which speech acts can be punished and the punishing of someone for speech
acts?
You cannot see the link between the Turkish bombing and starving of the
Kurdish people and the historical assaults by your own country on minority
populations?
I am not going to reply any more to you as you have descended to personalized
abuse, but I will close with thanking you for illustrating exactly why the
policing of free speech can never be allowed: there are too many people like
you who are incapable of exercising tolerance and rationality, and once a
lever of power and control is in your hands you will pull it.
Thank you, and god bless the USA.
~~~
king_phil
"The German state" is a construct in form of a _organization_. The people who
decide are forming the _structure_ of this organization. The concrete people
who are deciding who is punished are _judges_. As I already stated in this
discussion, we employ "Gewaltenteilung" to separate judiciary, execute and
legislative. So "the state" is not able to punish anybody, it is people who
punish. And they do by the rules that are set for the judiciary, which are
made by the legislative and carried out by the executive. The executive has a
different set of rules than the legislative and they have a different set then
the judiciary. These different sets of rules are each a corrective for
potential abuse of power. There is no "state" punishing anybody, it is a set
of rules made by people, carried out by people, watched by people. For
somebody who broadcasts that free speech is the Holy grail you act like you
don't tolerate no opinion besides your own. You're basically a fanatic and
revealed your own colors.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Cool tech short stories? - fratlas
I'm talking "The Last Question" level good
======
cyberhippie1024
The Guy Who Worked For Money By Benjamin Rosenbaum
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dinner for One: New Year's Eve Sketch Beloved in Germany Finally Screened in UK - Tomte
https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/dinner-for-one-music-hall-sketch-beloved-by-millions-of-germans-finally-gets-uk-premiere/
======
em-bee
discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18794397](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18794397)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Minimalism Brought Me Freedom and Joy - SwellJoe
http://boingboing.net/2016/04/15/how-minimalism-brought-me-free.html
======
drivingmenuts
At the moment, dealing with my inheritance from my mother, I am somewhat
jealous of the author. There's a part of me that wishes I could just say "Take
what you want" and walk away.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Analysis of Quirky: Do Consumers Know What They Want? - milesgrimshaw
http://milesgrimshaw.com/analysis-quirky/
======
startupfounder
The most important footnote:
"Quirky also sells products through retailers, which I am confident are not
included in this data."
From the May 2013 Forbes article[0]:
'Sales this year will reach $50 million, he predicts, without a hint of
modesty, with “a huge chance of us crushing the s–t out of that number."
That’s contingent, though, on Quirky solving its distribution problem. While
retailers sell 95% of its inventory...'
Quirky is focused on 1) generating the best ideas and data on new products, 2)
rapid prototyping of the best of these products, 3) testing them in the
marketplace, 4) accelerated production runs in their Chinese facilities, 5)
building out their distribution channels.
Let's get something clear: Quirky is a Manufacturer not a distributer. This
analysis only shines light of Quirky as an online distributor which it is not.
[0] [http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/05/09/can-a-
crowdso...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/05/09/can-a-
crowdsourcing-invention-company-become-the-best-retailer-in-the-world/)
------
codehero
So let's look at this from an inventor's perspective:
Feeling exuberant, I know Quirky will vet and accept my idea. According 109 of
823 accepted projects are on sale, so I have a 13.24% of getting my first
dollar. Royalties are paid out to contributors on 10% of gross revenue. The
idea originator automatically gets 40.5% of this revenue. So I would get a
4.05% royalty. Products are approximately $30, so my per unit royalty is
~$1.20
Let's say my cost for well thought invention idea is $1000 (includes time,
drawing, cardboard prototypes, etc). Looking at the spreadsheet attached to
the blog the average total units sold per product is 28378. However, this is a
heavy tailed distribution, so we'll make two estimates (from eyeballing the
spreadsheet, I divided the total units sold range into 1/3)
a 33% chance they will sell 500 units a 33% chance they will sell 5000 units a
33% chance they will sell 50000 units
So expected sales will be
$1.20 * (1/3 * 500 + 1/3 * 5000 + 1/3 * 50000) = $22000
So my expected value on idea submission is
(1 - 0.1324) * -1000 + 0.1324 * (22000 - 1000) = $1912.80
So I can expect to make about $2000 for a product idea on Quirky. Don't hold
back any criticism on this analysis.
------
timboslice
Interesting. Reminds me of survey bias - where people answer one way because
they think that's what you want to hear, or because it aligns with their own
perceived values, but they _act_ a completely different way.
Can surveying the crowd for inventions produce mass-marketable ideas?
Probably. Does a large part of the value chain have to do with marketing and
distribution? Undoubtedly.
~~~
josephjrobison
Also important to know is what is the average income of those surveyed. If
those surveyed were 50%+ in developing countries, but 90%+ of purchasers are
in the US, then there's obviously funky data there.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Methane rises to highest level on record - elorant
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/livestock-farming-and-fossil-fuels-could-drive-4c-global-heat-rise
======
perfunctory
This is not really a news anymore, is it. Methane levels are setting new
records, co2 levels are settings new records, total GHG emissions are rising,
temperature is rising, everything is rising, every freaking year. Year after
year. This news sounds a little bit like saying "The age of the universe rises
to the highest level on record. It got older. Again." The news will be when
global GHG levels stop rising and start decreasing.
~~~
kilroy_jones
Might not be a lot of people around to report the news when that happens.
~~~
wiz21c
not funny at all :-/
------
blackomen6
Interestingly, Burger King just announced that they're changing the diet of
their cattle to reduce emissions by 33% (of their cattle, not worldwide).
Apparently lemongrass leaves will accomplish this.
[https://www.smartenergydecisions.com/blog/2020/07/15/burger-...](https://www.smartenergydecisions.com/blog/2020/07/15/burger-
king-to-limit-cattle-methane-emissions-with-new-
diet?contact_id=158571&inf_contact_key=4fd3f3c05a4f6e3e154ff8def1c8149f842e902fbefb79ab9abae13bfcb46658)
------
varbhat
What is the solution though? I believe that the main reason for these problems
are population explosion.
~~~
perfunctory
Everybody knows what the solution is. There is no lack of solutions. There is
a lack of courage to implement them.
While population may be a concern, it's not the main problem.
> The richest 10% of people in the world are responsible for around 50% of
> global emissions
[https://oi-files-d8-prod.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-pub...](https://oi-
files-d8-prod.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/file_attachments/mb-
extreme-carbon-inequality-021215-en.pdf)
~~~
ArkVark
The top 10% is people who earn over $18,000/year, which probably includes most
of HackerNews readers:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global-
income-calculator/)
Keep in mind that this richest 10% contribute the majority of humanity's
value-added commerce and production, cultural output, and scientific output.
For example, Romania has an equal scientific output to Pakistan:
[https://www.natureindex.com/country-
outputs](https://www.natureindex.com/country-outputs)
Despite Pakistan being 212 million people vs Romania 19 million. Pakistan
emits 178mt of Co2, vs Romania 79mt (2016). Pakistan's CO2 output is 2.2x
greater, but their total GDP is only 1.31x bigger.
When you look at emissions against output, its clear that the West and East
Asia are substantially more efficient than other regions on the planet.
~~~
karmakaze
Efficiency is something I can get behind, but of what? Forgetting dollars and
cents for a moment, what if we measured the health and happiness of a
population. Using those measures times the population would be the plus side
with environmental impact on the minus. This only works for a closed system
and import/export and sharing of scientific results plays a part.
I guess my point is if Pakistan were able to keep their population healthy and
happy with less GDP per capita, scientific input or output, and less
environmental impact per capita than Romania, I'd say they were doing alright.
~~~
selimthegrim
I don’t know if Pakistan is quite comparable with Romania on the healthy and
happy metrics, but the real efficiency comparison is between Pakistani and
Indian Punjabs on groundwater depletion and tube wells. Indian Punjab may be
better at getting the groundwater out and irrigation intensity but at what
cost to the aquifer? (This is not saying Pak doesn’t need to move away from
wasteful canals and build water storage for rain - they do)
~~~
karmakaze
I was only using Pakistan and Romania since they were in the original example.
The important bit was to not optimize a proxy for a thing without recognizing
that it's a proxy and may lead to undesirable conclusions or actions.
------
totetsu
bacteria in the wet rice farming system is also a big source of methane, with
a positive feedback loop for rising temperature.
------
christiansakai
I'd expect that this pandemic actually put a brake in emission acceleration.
What happened?
~~~
lambertsimnel
Fjolsvith suggests a possible answer in another thread: > With the meat
packaging plant closures and the "shortage" of beef, the cattle herds are
probably growing in numbers, which could cause the spike of methane.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23858601](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23858601)
------
spodek
We are not powerless against this.
We eat more meat than ever. We subsidize meat production at every level so
that all taxpayers pay for cheap meat, even vegetarians and vegans.
We can reduce subsidies, or even reverse them to accurately account for the
externalities of pollution and global heating.
While population growth rate is lowering, humans are still increasing in
population. We can make contraception and education more available globally.
The United States' science education has declined for generations so people
don't understand nature and how we affect it. We can improve science
education.
~~~
6d6b73
Meat is not the problem. Long before people there was more animals alive on
this planet and they pooped, farted and ate each other at a scale that we
can't imagine. Just think about the bison, or passenger pigeons.
~~~
gbrown
Citation needed? They ate grass instead of corn, and spread their waste over
vast areas of wilderness, ready to be incorporated back into the plantlife.
Also, a quick Google search says there were 30-60 million bison roaming the
plains. Today, there are 95 million cows, and another 70 some million pigs.
~~~
6d6b73
Not all cows are used for meat. Bison, and pigeons are just two examples, but
as you can imagine, all over planet there were billions of animals that are
not either extinct or close to being extinct. How about european bison,
aurochs, wild pigs, and many many more. Cows are just one example of the
bovine family.
I don't claim that farmed meat does not contribute anything, but it's not the
only, or even main problem of the climate change. Start a garden, and see for
yourself how much resources it takes to grow enough plant food to feed your
family,and compare that to a number calories you can get from one cow.
~~~
gbrown
No offense, but you appear to be just making up your numbers and inventing the
conclusions from whole cloth. Nobody would dispute that the biosphere was
richer and more diverse in the past, but all of those animals were part of a
global equilibrium (at least on the order of 10s of thousands of years,
nothing is permanent).
Currently, the animals in our food system are not. I do garden extensively,
and I know how difficult it is to produce food for a whole year. I also know
that feeding carbon intensive corn to cows to eat is a thermodynamically
loosing game calorie-wise. If you want to pay for regeneratively raised, grass
fed beef from farms with integrated waste management, good for you. If you
think your 99c hamburger at a fast food restaurant isn’t part of a climate and
ethical catastrophe, I think you’re being willfully ignorant.
Personally I’m a vegetarian, but the main thing I care about is that people
eat less meat, which was more sustainably and ethically raised.
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C16&q=cow...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C16&q=cows+methane+contribution&oq=cows+methane+contri)
------
daneel_w
Overheard banter on this topic at work a few weeks ago: "yeah 'coz everyone's
sitting at home farting in the sofa every evening since the f __*ing corona
happened instead of going about their spare time as usual ".
~~~
selimthegrim
Maybe after dinner smoking will make a comeback.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
As a full time hacker how do you manage your health - noloblo
As a full time hacker nomad how do you manage your health, back, wrist and other pains that lead to burnout?
What diet do you follow?<p>Do you use acupuncture? Therapy, any tips appreciated to manage burnout
======
apolymath
I use a device ([http://zap.intergate.ca/](http://zap.intergate.ca/)) before
going to bed, which induces electroporation & destroys harmful organisms
living in my body. I ride my bicycle 5 miles to work & 5 miles back home every
day. I limit my caloric intake to less than 1,500 per day. I drink a lot of
water and also teas that reduce stress.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Optional Chaining and Nullish Coalescing Operators in JavaScript - ksharifbd
https://www.ksharifbd.com/blog/optional-chaining-and-nullish-coalescing-operators-what-why-and-how/
======
ksharifbd
Optional Chaining and Nullish Coalescing operators are two of my favorites
from the ECMAScript 2020 specification.
It's a note on those features using examples that covers behaviors such as
short-circuiting, long short-circuiting, stacking, and grouping.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life - veeti
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html?_r=0
======
chris_wot
When I was on Wikipedia as an admin, someone modified their signature to point
to a user who didn't exist. I was pretty pissed off about this, and so I went
to the admins noticeboard I'd setup not really that long ago to ask someone to
resolve the issue.
This is where I did something particularly dumb. I created the account to the
non-existent user and posted a few comments on it - then quickly switched back
to my Ta bu Shi da Yu account to say what I'd done and explain the impact it
was likely to have.
It was a bad, bad judgement call. I got such a massive lynching that I
seriously regretted what I'd done - but there was no way of undoing it.
Eventually, I started getting depressed - I mean, my entire reputation was in
tatters. None of the work I'd done - not the hours and hours of fighting
trolls, extensive article writing, innovative strategies for dealing with
referencing or organizing the admins via the board, nor the work on featured
article candidates, peer review, articles for deletion, vandalism fighting,
meeting up with Sydney people interested in Wikipedia, made any difference at
all.
I left the project and asked to be desysopped. About a year or so later, I
created an account Tbsdy lives and tried again. I managed to get my admin
status re established (I readily admitted it was a bad judgement call), but
still I was told I'd left "under a cloud", by none other than Brad Fitzpatrick
- their legal counsel.
What's the moral of this? Online communities suck. If you make even one minor
error in judgment, be prepared to be lynched. If you get depressed, just exit
at this point and don't look back. It's not worth it. It doesn't matter how
much time you put into a project - you're going to get judged, and you'll
never make your way back.
If you don't think it can't happen, then ask Ben Noordrius how he felt when
Bryan Cantrell called him an arsehole and said he should have been fired
because he reverted a personal pronoun. That did the Node.js community a _lot_
of good now, didn't it?
~~~
geofft
I just want to say, I remember the account name "Ta bu shi da yu" from when I
was active on Wikipedia (it's been about 10 years) and you seemed cool. I
missed whatever drama this was, but my only association with that name is that
it was someone who was active on Wikipedia and doing useful things.
Regarding Bryan Cantrill, never forget this post (a one-line reply at the
bottom):
[http://cryptnet.net/mirrors/texts/kissedagirl.html](http://cryptnet.net/mirrors/texts/kissedagirl.html)
Which I link not to shame him for what he wrote as a recent college grad 20
years ago, but to say that _everyone_ does dumb, borderline offensive things
sometimes, and what matters is that you are not obstinate in your dumbness.
Maybe Bryan would have fired the person he was then; that's fine. We need both
effective, meaningful punishment, and also effective rehabilitation. It should
be possible to go from Bryan Cantrill in Sun to Bryan Cantrill in Joyent. It
should be possible to go from Ben Noordhuis in Node to Ben Noordhuis in io, or
Justine Sacco in IAC to Justine Sacco wherever she is now, or Sam Biddle to
chastened empathetic Sam Biddle, or whatever.
~~~
Torgo
Provided without comment, here's Cantrill on Twitter relatively recently
criticizing Linus Torvalds' "idiocy" in a usenet post from 2000:
[https://twitter.com/bcantrill/status/456540342649487361](https://twitter.com/bcantrill/status/456540342649487361)
~~~
geofft
He acknowledges that in the replies, but this particular "idiocy" is not one
of tone, behavior, or offense. It is about bad technical policy in the pursuit
of ego, which is something that Linus has done several times since.
(And he's a brilliant enough kernel hacker that he can work around his own bad
policy and still come up with a system that works well, but that doesn't mean
it's not bad technical policy. I feel bad begrudging him for making a worse
product when it's so good due exactly to his skill, but still, the product
could have been better if he avoided making these sorts of decisions.)
Anyway, I do kind of wish Bryan would issue a clearer apology for what he said
20 years ago. But I also kind of wish we lived in a world where he didn't have
to, and it's obvious he's grown up in the last 20 years.
~~~
bcantrill
It's funny you should mention that, as that episode from nearly 20 years ago
(!!) has come up much more in the last year than it did in the two decades
prior. Of course, the reason is not an accident; it's a direct result of those
who vehemently disagree with my handling of the Noordhuis pronoun incident.
Anyway, your request is entirely fair, and let me be clear that I (obviously?)
regret the have-you-ever-kissed-a-girl response (which was actually an obscure
Saturday Night Live reference). I was young, and it was stupid -- and I
regretted it shortly thereafter, for whatever it's worth. I have never
actually met David in person, but if I did, the first thing I would do would
be to look him in the eye and apologize.
That said, I do think that this is contrast to the Noordhuis incident. I know
that this position is not popular here (and that I will be downvoted into
oblivion), and that it's likely foolish to revisit this, but just to make
clear my position: I am understanding (very understanding, given my own
history) of gaffes made on the internet. The Noordhuis issue, however, was not
a gaffe: it's not that he rejected the pull request (that's arguably a gaffe),
it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally
reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note
to make clear that this was no accident.) This transcended gaffe, and it
became an issue of principle -- one that I feel strongly about. So what I
wrote at the time was entirely honest, and it is something that I absolutely
stand by -- more than ever, actually.
The inarguably contrast is this: I regretted the have-you-ever-kissed-a-girl
response; I do not and will not regret my handling of the Noordhuis incident
-- and any company that would not employ me over this is a company that I
would not want to work for.
~~~
sintaxi
Its fruitful to reflect on such past behavior both professional and personal.
I have my share of regrets as well. None of us are without fault, just some of
us have our mistakes more amplified than others. It important to learn from
such things.
In interest of personal edification (since you seem to be open to feedback)
the one criticism I have about the Noordhuis incident is that in my opinion if
you felt as strongly as you did about publicly chastising Noordhuis it should
have been done from your personal blog and not from the Joyent blog. I feel
this was slight abuse of power and influence of the Joyent brand, specifically
because you mention the intent on terminating his employment if it was within
your power. I don't think that belongs there as permanent public record. That
said, I think your desire was to make it clear to the community that gender
biases were not going to be tolerated and to me that intent (for the most
part) came through.
I do think its plausible that Noordhuis wasn't quite represented properly and
that he had strong opinions about process and how commits are merged but those
strong opinions were interpreted as an intent to have gender bias. But I don't
have enough information to know for sure, that's just how it looks to me.
In the end regret is an entirely personal thing and we all get to decide what
kind of person we are going to be. I would also like to suggest that regret
isn't black and white there are always ways we can conduct or communicate more
effectively and perhaps this could be a take away for you. Could there have
been a way to achieve your goals equally/more effectively with less of a
direct expense to Ben??
As someone who has worked directly under (and along side) you I have a deep
respect for the way you conduct yourself professionally. I see you as someone
with integrity, which is probably why you feel comfortable bringing up
incidences you have been criticized for (this something far too rare). I offer
my perspective as a friend so take it for what its worth to you.
~~~
bcantrill
I appreciate (as always) your thoughtful candor. And I (certainly) appreciate
your kind words with respect to my personal integrity; the sentiment is very
much mutual!
In this case, we may have to agree to disagree: I felt (and feel) that a
message from Joyent -- not a message from me -- was called for: members of the
node.js community were calling Joyent to task for Ben's behavior, and I (we)
felt that it was Joyent that needed to respond. That said, I appreciate your
willingness to speak your mind and to earnestly engage on this issue!
------
danso
I'd like to think that as the world gets more saturated in constant social
media and sharing, that we'd have a higher tolerance for things...in this
case, a joke that if a person told it to you, with the right tone of voice,
it'd be funny...imagine Louis CK making that quip. But no, I doubt it...I
think it's more a physical limitation of our brains...we just don't have the
brain system designed to adequately consider all the context of all the
messages we might consume in day...It's just easier to assume that a
140-character message really is an adequate reflection of someone who we have
never met, and who we would have never been exposed to before the Internet.
And it feels good to pat yourself on the back as you think, "Jeez, I can't
believe such racist people still exist"
To paraphrase the famous comic from the New Yorker, "On the Internet, no one
knows that you have nuance"
~~~
andreasvc
I think it is a mistake to think that most people were _actually_ offended and
didn't get the joke. There are definitely much more offensive things out on
the internet than the examples in the article.
I think it's much more likely that people revel in seeing someone go down; the
article clearly alluded to this sadistic aspect I think. As soon as there is
enough critical mass for a public shaming, people will jump on the bandwagon.
What needs to change is that this kind of public shaming on the internet
should be looked down upon in the future, just at is now in real life. The
first step is for employers not to be so spineless to immediately fire an
employee that is talked about.
~~~
bkcooper
_I think it 's much more likely that people revel in seeing someone go down;
the article clearly alluded to this sadistic aspect I think._
This is possible. But I think it's less about this and more about status
marking. Joining the pile on is often a quick, cheap way to demonstrate that
you care about the right things.
~~~
andybak
I wonder if there's a distinction that needs to be made between offending
people and hurting people.
From my self-confessed but unavoidable smug vantage point of white privilege I
wonder if being offended is something that needs to be disregarded. I'm trying
to remember how it felt to be 'offended' myself and whether anyone other than
me should have cared. Is it actually a form of power when one can choose to be
offended and know that you can affect the actions of others by doing so?
Genuinely hurting people (emotionally) on the other hand is something
different and I'd need to think a lot more deeply about that.
------
mc32
Two things: Don't be too clever. People trip over themselves to feel offended.
Two, you really don't have freedom of speech when you can get mugged by being
obnoxious online. Not being malicious -just obnoxious.
Yes all the tweets quoted in the article were obnoxious and leveraged
stereotypes but I don't think people should be flogged for being like that.
I remember all the obnoxious Polish jokes growing up. They were terrible. But
I don't agree that they should be censored. Demanding this mind of self
censorship is a sign that a society is fragile rather than robust. A robust
society can take the jokes.
It's like with friendships. With good friends you can nettle them; say
terrible things and we know that's it's all in good fun, a ritual of sorts.
With so so friends you don't make bad jokes because the friendship is too
fragile. It's a sign of an immature or fragile society when bad jokes upset
the cart.
Edit. An irony is that many of the people calling offense don't realize their
own transgression in becoming part of a self-righteous mob meting out
punishment at the speed of thought.
~~~
spikexxx
Over-reaction or not, freedom of speech does not guarantee a receptive
audience.
~~~
Amezarak
> Over-reaction or not, freedom of speech does not guarantee a receptive
> audience.
That's so. But if society frequently inflicts severe extralegal punishment for
unpopular speech, then you don't really have free speech. You just have First
Amendment rights. They aren't the same thing.
As a thought experiment, imagine Person X said something deemed offensive and
society responded in a uniform manner - by constant public humiliation,
refusing to do business with them, refusing to even speak to them, etc. All
this is well within our legal rights (with maybe some exceptions) but life for
such a person would be very difficult, if not impossible - they'd probably end
up starving in the streets. That's not a very free society even if there are
no legal consequences whatsoever for any speech.
I think it's very important to affirm that even if someone says something
offensive that the response should be measured.
~~~
vertex-four
> As a thought experiment, imagine Person X said something deemed offensive
> and society responded in a uniform manner - by constant public humiliation,
> refusing to do business with them, refusing to even speak to them, etc.
I will note that until relatively recently, those who we consider
"conservatives" today did exactly that towards "progressives". You try and
dare being publicly against segregation and the mistreatment of black people
in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s - Juliette Morgan did, and promptly got fired and
ostracised. I'm sure you can find similar examples for supporters of gay
rights, right up to today.
It's not exactly a new, nor a partisan thing.
~~~
nickff
I would just like to point out that the progressives were the ones who pushed
to disenfranchise African-Americans for decades.[1] The conservatives were on
the other side, pushing for equal rights; as an example, President Coolidge
said "[As president, I am] one who feels a responsibility for living up to the
traditions and maintaining the principles of the Republican Party. Our
Constitution guarantees equal rights to all our citizens, without
discrimination on account of race or color. I have taken my oath to support
that Constitution. It is the source of your rights and my rights. I propose to
regard it, and administer it, as the source of the rights of all the people,
whatever their belief or race.".[2]
The progressive movement has a horrific history, and I find it puzzling as to
why someone would self identify with a movement so steeped in racism and
eugenics.
[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_Sta...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_States#Democracy)
[2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge)
~~~
vertex-four
Mainly because "progressivism" as the term is used today has little to do with
what it was about in the past? Most movements have had huge changes over the
past hundred years.
It wasn't exactly conservatism which brought us back to the point we're at now
from there, was it? It seems as if it were a different movement entirely from
the late 1800s progressives and the conservative movement.
------
rihegher
French guy here. This article only speak about employees in american company
getting fired about some data shared on the web. But I would be curious to
know what happened to people who faced the same situation working in
continental european companies. It would be surprising if people would lost
their jobs so easily. Either because I think it's culturally better accepted
for private people (I mean not public figures) to have unappropriate
expressions publicly, plus the law don't allow companies (at least in France)
to fire someone on a basis of only one unappropriate expression not even
targeting another employee or customer of this company.
~~~
fit2rule
Well, in Europe the tradition of mobbing is a serious problem, and its
definitely something that occurs on a regular basis in the real world, and not
just on the Internet. In Germany, people have been fired for instigating the
mob - not necessarily for saying things that offend others, but rather for
rabble-rousing and trying to get the pitchfork brigade riled up.
I think Europe has a keener sense of the history of this activity, because the
artifacts of prior historical mobbing are abundant. You only have to take a
walk through Prague, Budapest, Berlin to see just how this is reflected in
European sensibilities - whereas in the US, its a less overt historical fact.
Americans are very loud about things, Europeans often very reserved and
conservative, but there is fundamentally no difference between the cultures:
both are capable of succumbing to cannibalistic, collective-reactive urges. I
witnessed this factor countless times in my experience living in the US (I'm
not American), most severely during the Rodney King riots. People form a kind
of super-being in a mob, a near God-like entity, which can perform powerful
acts - go to the moon, solve humanitarian crises, and so on. But it can also
turn vicious and heinous as well, and there seems to be some sort of scale
upon which the tone of activity can be plotted. I don't think there is a
difference in scales for European versus American societies; just that the
fact of observation of the energy of the mob is louder in some cultures that
have evolved to profit from that loudness - America, in this case.
Celebrity/Entertainment culture being what it is in the US, I think its just a
brighter shade of pale than, for example, the French may be used to - but its
the same basic color.
~~~
rihegher
My english is not perfect and reading you answer I thing I was misunderstood.
This kind of mobbing and over reaction do happens in France as well and I
don't deny that. Recently 3 millions get down the street because 18 peoples
has been killed. So I acknowledge that over-reaction is not just an american
thing. It's more on the employer side that I'm surprised. If an employer is
not stupid why would he fire someone on these bases?
~~~
fit2rule
I believe its because more often than not, the employer is profiting direction
from the mobs own ignorance of itself. A classic case is where employees are
not allowed to discuss their wages, as this of course allows the 'owner' of
the organization to make bargains and deals, and so on. So the function of
leadership, expressed as control over the crowd, has its own degrees of +/-'ve
reality. In an open group, where everyone knows everything, its quite
difficult to rile people up and get them to pick on an individual member; the
dark line that forms around mysteries, lies, deceit and intrigue, is precisely
the abyss into which any individual may fall. And it is always 'others' who
push them into it.
------
ll123
Regardless of your political orientation, you should think twice before
cheerleading mob justice. If you think mob justice is good and if you think
"freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" then you're just
saying unpopular speech is always bad and wrong. Once the mob turns against
your political beliefs then one day you might be the one getting attacked and
fired.
~~~
spb
Pretty sure there's a pg essay on this. "Unpopular speech is not necessarily
bad and wrong" is pretty much, like, the Official Opinion of Hacker News.
------
interknot
For whatever reason, the following snippet prompted me to see who the author
was:
Amid the hundreds of congratulatory messages I received,
one stuck out: “Were you a bully at school?”
As it turns out, the author is Jon Ronson. He's well worth checking out. I've
particularly enjoyed _The Men Who Stare at Goats_ (the book), _The Secret
Rulers of the World_ , and _The Psychopath Test_.
~~~
TheHippo
According to his wikipedia article he also is releasing a book called "So
You've Been Publicly Shamed" on March 2015.
~~~
hullo
It also mentions that at the end of the linked article. This is an adapted
excerpt from the book (unsurprisingly).
------
klenwell
I like to think of self-righteousness as a drug. A subtle but lingering high.
I know I get off on it from time to time.
Post anything online and there's a chance you'll be someone's next fix.
~~~
metaphorm
I think this is very well stated and I'd like to see this idea presented more
frequently in dialogue surrounding internet zealotry.
Simply put, a great deal of what drives the extremist behavior on the internet
is straight up narcissism. The people participating in pile-on internet
bullying campaigns feel good about themselves when they do so, and receive
praise (from the internet mob that they have aligned with) for doing so.
------
mootothemax
As dislikable as the tweet's content is, it's truly frightening how quickly an
incredibly large pitchforks-and-torches mob can come to life via the internet.
~~~
maaaats
> _As dislikable as the tweet 's content is_
Did you read the article? By thinking for a few seconds, the point of the
tweet is obviously not racist. Not a smart tweet, in retrospect, but. Here's
her explanation from the article:
> _I thought there was no way that anyone could possibly think it was literal.
> (...) Living in America puts us in a bit of a bubble when it comes to what
> is going on in the third world. I was making fun of that bubble._
~~~
mcphage
> Did you read the article? By thinking for a few seconds, the point of the
> tweet is obviously not racist.
Honestly, does it even matter? Say it was a racist tweet, and she was a
racist. Does that mean she deserved what happened to her? Definitely not.
~~~
sofal
It matters because making an offhand joke parodying a stupid person is
something that we've all done. This example shows that if you make a little
parody joke like that in the wrong medium, your life could permanently pivot
180 degrees for the worst.
~~~
mcphage
> This example shows that if you make a little parody joke like that in the
> wrong medium, your life could permanently pivot 180 degrees for the worst.
Definitely. But my point was, whether it was racist or not, her life pivoted
for the worse—and whether it was racist or not, she didn't deserve what
happened to her.
------
steven2012
Except for Facebook and LinkedIn, I haven't used my real name and any
personally identifiable information on the Internet in 20 years, since I
realized that everything I wrote on Usenet would be there forever. There is no
value with having the things I say potentially used against me for the rest of
my life.
~~~
forrestthewoods
I'm the opposite. I use my real name, or real enough, everywhere. It makes me
think twice before hitting enter. Anything I say I'm backing up, for better or
worse, with my identity. I may someday regret this decision. So far so good.
~~~
brandonwamboldt
I do the same thing, I use my real name as my username on all social media
sites including Reddit. I always think to myself, is this something I want
permanently associated with my real identity?
It could obviously backfire. You say something that you think is fine, someone
else gets offended, and they know exactly who you are. But generally, I think
using your real name makes people more accountable for what they say online.
~~~
throwaway09332
The problem with this approach is you have no idea what will become wrongthink
in the future. In 2008, opposing gay marriage was a relatively mainstream
idea. In 2014 someone was fired for donating to an anti-gay marriage campaign.
In 2015 it might be acceptable for one to express wariness of expanding the
H-1B visa program, but in 2020 will it be so?
------
golemotron
I think that public shaming can be laid directly at the feet of Social
Justice. It would be great if people who want to make things better for
minorities chose a different tactic - private communication rather than public
ostracism.
~~~
geofft
SJW here. Private communication works well if the problem is specific people
behaving badly in private, and public ostracism is, in fact, inappropriate.
But usually the goal is to establish a changed social norm, and to combat an
existing one, which needs to be done in public; ostracizing an individual is
not the goal (and, to be clear, isn't a good thing!).
Someone brought up the example of Ben Noordhuis and node.js elsewhere in this
thread. Assuming for the sake of argument that Ben's behavior was something
that you didn't want in the world, it's not enough to message him in private
and say "Hey, this was wrong for these reasons." That gets you change within
the node community (well, provided it's Ben acting), but not anywhere else.
Meanwhile, if you object in public and write a blog post about it... do you
think io.js is going to risk rejecting a pull request about gendered pronouns
now? Or any other equally large, somewhat-overlapping language community?
I would definitely agree with the criticism that the blog post should have
tried harder not to look like an attack on Ben as a person. But it reads to me
like it wasn't the intention; it was an attack on _anyone_ who acts in the
same way.
~~~
golemotron
Essentially, your argument is that the ends justify the means, right? Or, that
the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? The issue is that we now
know that things blow up in social media so we should adjust our behavior to
be ethical.
The case of dongle-gate at PyCon is a good example to talk about. We should
now understand that attempting local solutions outside of social media is far
preferable. Individuals (on either side of an issue) should not be cannon
fodder for social causes. Inviting/creating that sort of public ostracism is
extremely irresponsible. I hope that we (collectively) are learning that
lesson.
Maybe protecting individuals from social media attacks can be seen as a social
justice cause? The most vulnerable minority is the minority of one.
~~~
geofft
No, absolutely not, and I'm sad that anyone would think I'm advocating that,
because it means I wrote unclearly. My argument is that distasteful but not
_disallowable_ means should not scare us off from meaningful ends.
Disallowable means are, as always, disallowable.
Here's an example of a disallowable means: come up with trumped-up excuses
using forged evidence to fire all the powerful white men on the grounds that
once you get rid of them, the people who'll fill in will be (probably) less
oppressive. You can probably even come up with data backing that. But it would
be completely inappropriate. (Not to mention strategically wrong because it
legitimizes a harmful strategy, but it's also inherently wrong even if it
weren't strategically wrong.)
My worry is that we'll look at a possible side effect of a means as a threat,
as you're portraying things "blowing up", and that will be a chilling effect
on change. Whatever the problems are with social media, to use that as an
excuse is just that—an excuse, to prop up the current, bad systems.
~~~
celticninja
but really what we see with these crusades by SJW's is just an opportunity for
bullying, usually by people who were once bullied and now want to get their
own back. A lot of it is bandwagon jumping by the majority of people, who may
or may not have a dog int he fight, but just want to cause a fuss. It is these
people that call the employers, DDOS employers websites etc and then everyone
lumps them all together as SJW's, giving everyone a bad rep.
Doing things quietly would bring about better change, not chnage through fear
(as it is now) but change through education. Explain to eople why they are
wrong, get them to conciously change their behaviour as opposed to reactively
change it to protect themselves and not because of an understanding of where
they went wrong.
Reasd the article and everyone involved still thinks that what they said was a
joke and was blown out of all proportion. No minds were changed here, people
just batten down the hatches to protect themselves and their families.
~~~
geofft
That would be extremely nice, if it worked. Then the entire question about
distasteful means wouldn't come up, which would be better for everyone,
because distasteful means are still distasteful.
Unfortunately, that's not how changing minds works, in practice.
[http://www.contralbum.com/blog/2015/2/5/political-
correctnes...](http://www.contralbum.com/blog/2015/2/5/political-correctness-
is-more-reasonable-than-jonathan-chait)
See the section starting "The second great flaw...." (And yes, I get the irony
of trying to convince you of this by cordially linking you to some random blog
post that lists research.)
~~~
celticninja
So your go to alternative is bullying. Well I would prefer to effect no change
than to have to force it through with threats and intimidation.
SJW is more of a pejorative term these days, I don't know anyone who uses it
in a positive way and you are perhaps the first person I have seen that
indicates they themselves are an SJW. My experience of those who the term
applies to is generally negative and I cannot think of one positive action
that has come from these SJW's.
I won't even wish you luck as I think it is a retarded idea that they preach.
Yes I disagree with sexism, racism, homophones etc, I consider myself a
bleeding heart liberal but there seems to be no redeeming qualities to the SJW
movement it is juts bullying, hatred and damaging their own agenda (on the
rare occasions when that agenda can be loosely agreed upon).
~~~
geofft
What would you do about George Wallace in 1963?
Leave aside the question of whether social justice today is comparable to the
anti-segregation fight 50 years ago (reasonable people can disagree), and
let's just think about segregation. The governor of Alabama literally says in
his inauguration speech, "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation
forever."
You have the option of going to Congress and passing a federal law, going over
the governor's head, that makes segregation _illegal_. As a federal law,
backed by the federal law-enforcement apparatus, this is the very incarnation
of threats and intimidation. And Alabama certainly isn't about to integrate
voluntarily.
Does your conscience bother you?
~~~
celticninja
If the government making laws is "the very incarnation of threats and
intimidation" then you have never really been subjected to threats and
intimidation.
I hate to burst your bubble but not everyone is from the states, so it is
difficult for me to comment knowledgeably on your reply. From what I can see
George Wallace was a politician, if you don't like what a politician says you
vote against them. I would not condone shooting him or terrorising his family
to force a change when there is a legitimate route to address the problem.
Why would my conscience bother me?
~~~
geofft
Sorry, that last line was from a song, "Sweet Home Alabama," that briefly
mentions Gov. Wallace. It's decently well-known in the US, but my mistake in
expecting everyone would recognize it. :)
Anyway, nobody's talking about shooting or terrorizing anyone. But the Civil
Rights Act in the US compelled private business owners not to discriminate in
their clientele, and that compulsion was behind the (implicit) threat of
police response, as with just about all government compulsion. That is _way_
more of a response than anyone's discussing in this thread; the worst that's
happening is people losing their jobs and livelihoods, which is pretty bad,
but not nearly as bad. But it's not a particularly common belief today that
the Civil Rights Act was evil, or that its ends did not justify the means of
government compulsion. (It was a somewhat common belief then, and some US
politicians did oppose it on those grounds, though who can say if they also
privately objected to its substance.)
------
jonifico
I actually thought it was funny. If you get offended by a thing that's so over
the top it just can't be taken seriously, you sir are an absolute moron. Hate
how people are just looking to get excuses to get offended and show off their
'righteousness' at the expense of other people.
Point is: It's a joke. Learn the difference.
~~~
MichaelGG
He explains his viewpoint:
"Still, in those early days, the collective fury felt righteous, powerful and
effective. It felt as if hierarchies were being dismantled, as if justice were
being democratized."
This is delusional slacktivism. Overthrowing power structures and hierarchies
by retweeting. How more delusional can you get?
OTOH, if you've got a PR job or a shitty position where you'd get fired for
saying such stuff, you really ought to be ever so careful. Why are people
posting this stuff with their real names attached? Unless you've got FU money
or are in a career track that's mostly immune to this kind of harassment, just
use a separate personal account. FFS, does anyone think the general public
wants your tweets?
------
toothbrush
"The woman who took the photograph, Adria Richards, soon felt the wrath of the
crowd herself. The man responsible for the dongle joke had posted about losing
his job on Hacker News, an online forum popular with developers. This led to a
backlash from the other end of the political spectrum. So-called men’s rights
activists and anonymous trolls bombarded Richards with death threats on
Twitter and Facebook."
Wow, this almost makes it sound as if HN is a bunch of MRA losers :( A pity
it's so sloppily worded (unless it's true, in which case, ugh).
~~~
potatolicious
HN isn't _completely_ made up of MRA types, but if you've been noticing there
are a _lot_ of them here (along with your more typical "SJWs out to get us"
types).
HN is in general no longer held with the same regard it was a couple of years
ago. Note the number of progressive, well-respected regulars who've left this
place behind.
There are other avenues to discuss tech and tech issues without ancaps, MRAs,
and anti-SJW crusaders trying to internet-fight you at every turn.
~~~
ripdog
If you're internet-dogpiling people or taking creepshots and getting people
fired for jokes not even directed at you, I will happily internet-fight you
for being an awful person.
It's amazing how self-described "progressives" can come in here and happily
defend this kind of behaviour. I hope you find a nice new website and never
have your views challenged again.
~~~
potatolicious
I... what? Hold your horses, there's an awful lot of projection here.
I haven't come in here to defend internet lynch mobs - there's literally not a
word in my post condoning it.
The bulk of tech progressive aren't the ones spoiling for a Twitter fight,
they're the silent majority that's reading posts on HN, rolling their eyes,
maybe sighing a little bit, and moving along with their lives. They're not
orchestrating backlashes, brigades, or downvote chains, or any such devices.
The most they're doing is emailing a link to some comment to their friends
with a "sigh, HN again" quip - and I've received many such messages.
Heck, I know people who read HN - but only the links - knowing what a cesspool
the comments are going to be. Heck, this is me on most days.
These are the people I'm talking about - the ones who've largely left this
place behind because the tone of the community has shifted to one where any
talk of race, gender, or even age (or in fact _any_ talk of institutional
problems in the industry) is automatically the work of professional victims
(and a largely fictional narrative of a "social justice warrior") out to
oppress techies. The general tenor of the community here now has a very
distinctly reactionary twist, which has caused people to bail for greener
pastures.
~~~
ripdog
I'm sorry, I was overreaching. Your reply seemed to support the OPs idea that
Adria Richards was harassed for no reason by "MRA losers".
>These are the people I'm talking about - the ones who've largely left this
place behind because the tone of the community has shifted to one where any
talk of race, gender, or even age (or in fact any talk of institutional
problems in the industry) is automatically the work of professional victims
(and a largely fictional narrative of a "social justice warrior") out to
oppress techies.
I won't deny that the MRA side is often reactionary, but you must admit that
the "social justice" side is just as bad. The internet of today is designed
for reactionism, makes it so easy to react and so easy to find controversial
conversations.
This is something I've noticed a lot - both sides are as bad as each other.
Both claim to be better people, but both are so mired in faeces that they
haven't even noticed they're throwing it themselves. (I've been up for 36
hours that's the best I can come up with).
> (and a largely fictional narrative of a "social justice warrior")
That's a very opinionated statement. Unfortunately, few agree on the
definition of SJW, so everyone makes up their own. Pretending that there isn't
a clique of 'progressives' in the tech world doing their best to cause trouble
is just fantasy. Look at Adria's creepshot/dog whistling, the elevatorgate
thing, that time Ben Noordhuis was forced out of the Node community because of
a SJW hate mob enraged over a pronoun, or this thing:
[http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/32778.html](http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/32778.html).
SJWs exist, and have done plenty of damage to the industry.
They've also no doubt scared many young women away from STEM careers through
their wild stories about misogyny and dudebro cultures in the tech world.
Would you, as (possibly) a woman, want to work in an industry frequently
proclaimed to be an unaccepting boys club? Funnily enough, the proclaimers of
such always seem to benefit personally from such attacks, landing cushy
"developer relations" jobs and hefty sums on patreon. That's where the
"professional victim" label comes from.
~~~
spb
> that time Ben Noordhuis was forced out of the Node community because of a
> SJW hate mob enraged over a pronoun
bcantrill commented on this above, with more authority than I could address
this with:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086)
Also, it's worth noting Ben Noordhuis wasn't forced out of the Node
_community_ \- just the core contribution team (although I do believe he chose
to take a break afterward). His company, StrongLoop, would go on to be the
owners of the Express repo, and Ben Noordhuis is one of the contributors to
IO.js.
------
waylandsmithers
The sad thing is the history of America is sprinkled with a few stories of
angry armed mobs of people storming jails, overpowering the guards, and
physically freeing people whom the public believed had been wrongfully
imprisoned. That took balls. Now, mob justice is used to tear people down for
writing some quip in poor taste. What a shame.
I've actually given a lot of thought to things like this, having worked with
someone whom I despised due to a complete lack of tact and decorum. Despite
the fact that I would never ever want to work with or be associated with this
person again in any way, he still has the right to earn a living and
contribute his skills to society. In fact, I would argue that most if not all
the people he has offended over the years would not actually feel good about
"justice" being served if he were fired and/or out of work.
This is also why I've never had twitter, never will, and only use facebook
passively. There is no upside; anything you say can and will be used against
you.
If you're a band announcing a tour date, or a food truck sharing your
location, sure, but if you are trying to be a commentator or funny guy to gain
a following, it will probably just blow up in your face like this eventually.
The good news is that you don't have to use twitter. This is only a problem if
you allow it to be one for you. There are plenty of other effective means of
communication.
------
DanielBMarkham
Let's build an Internet. People can connect. They can share their feelings.
It'll make the world better place.
Had no one seen what mobs of angry people do?
This is getting worse, not better. We will see this kind of anger junkie mob
mentality explode into real violence. And then the violence will escalate.
Good news. We are seeing the end of the nation state. Just like they said. It
is being replaced with niche mobs of worldwide scope.
~~~
lurcio
The internet has always put me in mind of Dostoievskys under-appreciated story
Bobok.
"It may be so, but think of putting it so bluntly into print. In print
everything ought to be decorous; there ought to be ideals, while instead of
that...
Say it indirectly, at least; that's what you have style for. But no, he
doesn't care to do it indirectly. Nowadays humour and a fine style have
disappeared, and abuse is accepted as wit. I do not resent it: but God knows I
am not enough of a literary man to go out of my mind..."
btw I guess it was a throwaway comment, but.."We are seeing the end of the
nation state" Where do you see that? (I see multi-level governance.)
~~~
DanielBMarkham
The state, by definition, is the group that has the monopoly on the use of
force. If I see a crime taking place, after deciding whether it is appropriate
or not for me to intervene, my next step is to contact the state. I trust the
state to take corrective measures: arresting the person, perhaps imprisoning
them, perhaps killing them. I also trust them to use force (sometimes lethal
force) in maintaining social order.
But on the net, I am only limited by my degree of outrage. Somebody does
something stupid -- then each additional commenter takes it on themselves to
"up the ante" and make the stupid person pay.
Right now we're just ruining people's lives (!). But as we start seeing these
lynch mobs physically start acting out, then the state will no longer have the
monopoly on force. Whether or not that's an existential question depends on
your comfort level with chaos, I imagine. Whatever your personal view, the
state as we know it in many cases will no longer exist.
------
gear54rus
That may sound hateful or angry or whatever, but here goes...
> I was among the first people to alert social media. (This was because Gill
> always gave my television documentaries bad reviews, so I tended to keep a
> vigilant eye on things he could be got for.) Within minutes, it was
> everywhere.
Is this really what we've come to? We have all this technological progress so
you could stalk someone you're butthurt over and try to get at them?
> Amid the hundreds of congratulatory messages I received
So that others who have nothing better to do could pile on this?
> Still, in those early days, the collective fury felt righteous, powerful and
> effective. It felt as if hierarchies were being dismantled, as if justice
> were being democratized.
Wake up! Who ever gave a damn about some tweet? Be it corrupt mega-corp or a
media figure.
> I didn’t want people looking at me
Well, now that's a cool story you better tell everyone on twitter :)
> The woman had, in fact, overheard the joke. She considered it to be
> emblematic of the gender imbalance
Ah, nothing like snooping in on the conversation that isn't meant for your
damn ears and then getting all butthurt about it.
> <Story about people who can't take the, admittedly, offensive joke, a person
> who's not smart enough to not crack that joke on the net>
It's not the tweet that is stupid, it's people using the platform in such ways
and maybe even the platform itself. Come on, we can do better than that after
all this time.
_TL;DR_ She got exactly what she deserved in this context, but that doesn't
mean that community is some righteous force - quite the contrary, it's simply
poisonous.
~~~
protomyth
"justice were being democratized" = mob rule
same as it ever was, now with a lot less effort from the mob
~~~
gear54rus
I'd say for a mob it may even be understandable (if you decided to roll with
us, you're in for a full trip), we are talking about deeds after all, not
empty words.
Here, it's just ridiculous.
~~~
protomyth
But the empty words now result in people being fired and blacklisted, with as
little effort as writing a sentence or a retweet. The mob doesn't even have to
be in the same ballpark as truth. The worse thing is these things are picked
up by newspapers trying to tap into social and making them "the official
record".
------
Mithaldu
As a german i have to ask: Why do people get fired over things like this? Are
american worker employee protection laws so weak that there is no recourse
whatsoever for them?
~~~
ashark
Here's how worker protection laws work in the U.S.
1) For any given case, yeah, there's probably no protection. This is because
we love freedom. No, really. Well, if you can get an honest answer from
politicians and CEOs that's not the reason, but to the average "man on the
street" who's against stronger worker protections, that's the reason. That or
unemployment scaremongering. Really.
2) On the off chance that there is a law, _and_ you know there is, can you
afford to be without work and to pay lawyers long enough to fight to have it
enforced? Do you even know where to begin? If not, nothing happens. (think
minimum wage workers)
3) Is it worth even a small risk of a _de facto_ blacklisting in your
industry, permanently limiting your future employment options (and therefore
how much you earn)? If not, nothing happens. This is related to the "everyone
Googles you these days" thing mentioned in the article. (professionals,
skilled trades)
In the end it's riskier for to individuals, on average, to fight these things
than it is for businesses to break the law, so little is ever done. That's
assuming there was even a law to be broken.
Collective action (class action lawsuits, for example) can help but is nearly
impossible to organize effectively without unions, which we've been
successfully convinced to hate on principle. Every so often there's a lawsuit,
businesses are slapped with fine that's a rounding error in their account
books, everything goes on as normal.
------
rebootthesystem
Legal liability would put an end to this.
Imagine this: Someone says something unfortunate or offensive at a crowded
street corner. Another person hears it and launches into a righteous
indignation frenzy. I'll call him the Lead Bully. He stirrs up others. Very
soon this turns into a physical attack and the speaker ends up in the hospital
with serious injuries.
In this case anyone would easily conclude that the Lead Bully and a number of
others should be brought to justice and suffer financial damage for their
transgressions.
Well, a lot of these online attacks are not far from my hypothetical scenario.
They are launched and stoked by a Lead Bully and stoked by them and perhaps a
small group of friends and followers. These attacks result in serious and
significant damage spanning from physical and emotional to financial.
According to the article, in Justine Sacco's case the Lead Bully was Sam
Biddle, editor of Valleywag. This person single-handedly unleashed the hordes
on Sacco. Given his position and following it is impossible to imagine he did
not understand the potential consequences of his actions. He ruined this
woman's life and quite possibly scarred her for a long time, if not for life.
Much like the street corner beating scenario, he ought to be liable for his
decision to affect someone's life. He had at least two choices in front of
him. He took the one he knew would stirr-up a hornet's nest.
The case of the guys at the tech conference is similar. Adria Richards decided
to be the Lead Bully and, as a consequence, cost a father of three kids his
job and caused much pain. I happen to also have three kids. If you are single
you have no idea what that man felt at that moment. You can guess, but you
can't know. It's horrible.
Did these people say stupid things? Probably. The way to deal with them isn't
to ruin their lives. In most cases at a street corner they would be ignored.
When I was younger a mentor said something to me that stuck. He said: Having
freedom and being free does not mean having freadom or being free from the
responsibility for your actions or what you say.
This cuts both ways. The person who utters or tweets a potentially insensitive
remark deserves to be responsible for what they said IN PROPORTION to the
nature, degree and context of the statements. The people choosing to
eviscerate them using social media ought to also be responsible in proportion
to the consequences of their actions. That would be just and fair all around.
Think before you act.
~~~
EdiX
> in Justine Sacco's case the Lead Bully was Sam Biddle
You'd be surprised to find out just how many times the Lead Bully turns out to
be Sam Biddle.
~~~
Khaine
No I wouldn't. There are no words to describe how big of an arsehole he is.
------
Kalium
This is call-out culture at work. There is no room for error, no tolerance for
people who do not agree with you 110%. To make any mistake or disagree with
The Group is cause for expulsion and lynching.
------
darkmighty
The core problem here is ironically the effectiveness of online media to
broadcast personal opinions. An "offensive"/"revolting" message can be spread
exponentially quickly with only a small effort by each participant. Add to
that the statistical tendency of a small group of people to be _extremely
offended_ by certain innocuous messages without the opposing effect: people
are usually either offended or simply don't care -- guess what effect always
prevails!
To illustrate, if your message randomly spread to cause a response to 100k
people, and on average each person dedicates 1 minute on it due to
offense/indignation/etc, collectively ~1600 hours or 70 days will be spent on
it. If a single person is the target of this effort, it can be disastrous.
I don't think we're going to have any less effective social media in the
future (nor should we); neither do I believe in the near term people will be
much more enlightened as to collectively avoid strong reactions directed at
individuals.
So the only way to be strongly opinionated in public online is through
anonymity (or through being a "brand" \-- a celebrity, a comic, etc, but not
the case for the average person). Major companies (facebook,google,...) fail
to see this fundamental aspect of the internet: anonimity is a basic tool. We
need the hierarchy where our personal communications are more transparent and
the more public they become the more anonymous we can be.
------
sharkweek
I wonder about this a lot - in 15-20 years, political candidates / public
figures will have hundreds of things they have said online embarrassing their
campaigns/images. Do we all just become more accepting of sarcasm, racism, bad
jokes, etc? Is it a step backwards or is it a step forward?
I can tell you for a fact I'm sure things on my Twitter account could likely
be taken out of context as I can sometimes be a bit of a "Larry David" with my
public observations that I can't help but share.
~~~
danielweber
A lot of the people planning to be politicians are purposefully keeping their
current digital life clean.
CJ John Roberts knew from a young age he wanted to be Chief Justice.
(Overachiever, but lots of us on HN are overachievers.) He kept his record
_very_ clean. He never even got a speeding ticket.
And I totally see understand why: he was aware of how the media pick apart
people, and who knows what one tiny thing might spiral out of control.
But it means the CJ, when making ruling about police stops, has never actually
experienced something the majority of Americans have, and the Court loses some
bit of useful perspective.
------
will_brown
In addition to the _research_ of 18-19th century public shaming, it would have
been insightful to look at Court Opinions from early Freedom of Speech cases.
Believe it or not this mob response is exactly what is meant to keep speech in
check, of course the Court's verbiage is not mob rule, rather "the market
place of ideas." The law only cares about the Government not prohibiting
speech, otherwise the Court's generally expect the speech itself to be
accepted/promoted or rejected in the market place of ideas.
One example of accounting for ones words which didn't rise to the level of
Court Ordered public shaming, is Lincoln's ridiculing local politicians
through anonymous letters. On one occasion when Lincoln's true identity was
found out, Lincoln was challenged to a dual. Lincoln himself did not want to
dual, and was lucky enough that on the day of the dual the dual was cancelled.
From that point forward Lincoln never wrote a critical letter of anyone, and
made it a point never to criticize anyone for anything. This is a story that
is more fully described in How to Win Friends and Influence People.
------
infinite8s
I believe people are fundamentally unable to comprehend the impact of having
anything they do or say available to anybody in the world to witness and
critique (probably a reflection of Dunbar's number - as social primates, we've
been limited to small social non-anonymous circles for the majority of our
evolution).
The issue is that up until the development of the internet (and particularly
the social internet), most people weren't subject to this degree of anonynous
public exposure. Before twitter and facebook, news outlets were the only
exposure, and because of scalability issues, they typically only targeted
'noteworthy' individuals to catch them off guard. So those people learned to
hide behind PR individuals, and carefully guard their words and actions when
in the public eye.
------
ChikkaChiChi
The article cites the destruction of self-respect as being in some ways worse
than a punishment of death. I could argue that those that participate in this
sort of public shaming have a lack of self-respect and seek the thrill of
dragging everyone else down to their level.
Sadly, there will never be a lack of self-confidence, which means that there
will never be a shortage of these sorts of things happening.
I wish humanity was better than this.
~~~
spb
> I could argue that those that participate in this sort of public shaming
> have a lack of self-respect and seek the thrill of dragging everyone else
> down to their level.
I think this idea is well-reflected in the movie _Precious_ , when Precious's
mother is put on the spot for abusing Precious and is forced to confront her
motivations:
> Mary Lee Johnston: But, those... those things she told you I did to her?
> Who... who... who else was going to love me? Who else was going to touch me?
> Who else was going to make me feel good about myself?
------
ffn
Social media has taken the power formerly belonging only to politicians and
famous actors and distributed it statistically over the masses. For normal
people suddenly getting famous over something is a lot like electrons in a
lower orbit jumping to a higher one - it's completely based on chance
(incidentally, there is also a sort of uncertainty principle for social media:
if you know what you're saying, then you don't know how famous you are
becoming, and if you know how famous you're becoming, you don't know what
you're saying). So anytime you say something on social media, you run the risk
of getting infamous over something really dumb. This is all the more reason to
learn to talk to one's friends using email, phone, real-life communication, or
other "defunct" methods of interaction such as AIM, and use social media only
professionally.
If you think about it, this rather makes sense. Why should centralized
agencies like Facebook, Twitter, or Google determine how I interact with my
personal friends?
------
facepalm
I feel a bit more relaxed now that I have received many rejections to job
applications. Since people won't hire me anyway, might as well be outspoken
about my opinions.
Before I really struggled with the issue. It goes against my values to shut
up, but I know it is probably wiser to do so.
------
S_A_P
The only people that can get away with a tweet like that are stand up
comedians. The tweet in the article sounds almost verbatim what a comedian
like Amy Schumer would say on stage.I guess it is a reality of social media. I
dont know that I have ever felt compelled to police social media. Sure it
takes so little investment to involve yourself in some drama that in real life
would require more work, and most peoples sense of shame prevents them from
partaking in.
I almost wonder if the best way to handle a scenario like this is to go FULL
TROLL MODE and up the ante. Blow out your own credibility so that people
realize they are wasting their energy on nonsense.
------
doughj3
Another relevant instance from last Summer:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7869644](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7869644)
------
swatow
I see a lot of hypocrisy from the left on this issue. When their mobs attack
someone, they say that if you express an opinion, other people have the right
to criticize you for it. But when the left are attacked by mobs, they describe
the actions of the mobs as harassment, and either get the law involved, eg
through restraining orders, or lobby for more laws. The ambiguous nature of
these laws, both existing and proposed, encourage this double standard.
------
jstalin
If I say something stupid to a group of friends, usually they'll tell me it's
stupid or I said something wrong, and everyone moves on. If I say something
stupid on twitter, it's literally archived forever. Another reason I'm glad
I've disconnected from all social media. I'll keep my stupid, non-politically
correct jokes in my own head.
~~~
celticninja
set up a twitter account and dont link it to your real name. sign up through a
vpn, say waht you want and dont worry about it. unless what you say is
actually illegal no one can really track you down without getting your login
IP address from twitter. People get tracked down because they link it to their
PSN/XBOX/FB account or reuse usernames between twitter and somewhere else they
have left personal details.
I have a twitter accout that I set up through TOR and a VPN. I use a username
I have never used elsewhere. I dont post anything controversial but I would be
pretty happy that I could not be traced without someone obtaining a court
order requiring twitter to hand over my IP address, even then it would point
to a VPN that (supposedly) does not keep logs.
~~~
Nicholas_C
Do you not interact with friends on Twitter? Not having that takes a lot of
the fun out of Twitter.
~~~
celticninja
Nope. I interact with them on WhatsApp, text message, email, phone and in
person. Twitter is like a crappy version of text messaging on a feature phone
for chatting with friends.
------
gadders
I think some people don't feel fully validated or had a complete day unless
they have found something online to be outraged about.
~~~
to3m
This has long been the raison d'etre of downmarket UK newspapers The Daily
Mail and The Daily Express.
~~~
gadders
A fair point. Also Comment is Free in the Guardian.
------
mkhalil
I don't wish to comment on how sensitive people get. The masses have spoken,
and there is nothing she could of done except face that fact and deal with it
responsibly.
I do have a problem with one getting fired over a joke - debatable how "funny"
it is - on a personal Twitter account. Would a tenured professor be fired over
it? Nah....
------
jqm
"As Sacco’s flight traversed the length of Africa, a hashtag began to trend
worldwide: #HasJustineLandedYet. “Seriously. I just want to go home to go to
bed, but everyone at the bar is SO into #HasJustineLandedYet."
Who are these people? Really nothing better to do than that? I just don't
understand.
------
kefka
So far, what I see is:
"Don't use Twitter."
And on the smaller side is "Don't upload shit to social media."
~~~
fennecfoxen
You missed the bigger point, then: Mob justice is a barbaric and ugly thing;
stop patting yourself on the back and thinking you're a good person for being
a part of it.
~~~
paganel
This is not about justice, it's about a bad human being getting what she
deserved. When you're an open racist you are a bad human being.
~~~
fennecfoxen
> This is not about _justice_ , it's about a bad human being _getting what she
> deserved_.
... I'm sorry, I thought we were using the English language here and that we
had a seven-letter Latin-derived word that we generally used to describe the
situation of "[person] getting what [he/she] deserved". Perhaps I erred.
_Entschuldigung; tut mir leid._
But regardless, even accepting the (modestly tendentious) assertion that this
is about a Bad Human Being, angry mobs following the Outrage Of The Moment and
out for blood are hideous and disgusting phenomena themselves at the best of
times. The modern justice system was largely invented to counter these
barbarous shortcomings, which is why we have nice things like presumption of
innocence, rights of the accused, impartial trials, the notion of the
_finitude_ of one's debt to society, et cetera.
------
6stringmerc
_Instead, she said, she just felt personally humiliated._
Well, if I'm wearing a Nike hat, Nike t-shirt, Nike running pants, Nike shoes,
and a Nike employee badge and make a joke in poor taste at a bar / mall /
airport / etc, and the crowd turns to look at me with contempt for the humor
in poor taste, it might reflect bad on Nike. The personal humiliation part is
being called out in public on making a bad joke. She wasn't just personally
humiliated, she was professionally humiliated. Job in PR = maybe know about
PR...at least the "Do's and Don'ts" for survival.
It happens, which is why I suppose my Dad taught me early on that if I make a
joke at the expense of somebody who is bigger, stronger, and angrier at the
world than me, they might punch me out. Can happen in a bar, a grocery store,
a parking lot, a motel lobby...it's life. That seems to apply to the internet
as well, albeit with some caveats...never let your private thoughts wave
around a company banner...
------
marcusgarvey
The term "public shaming" doesn't feel quite right for describing a response
to what someone chose to do in public, of their own free will, in forums that
are meant for dialogue. "Negative reaction" or "backlash" or might be better.
------
goblin89
“This American penchant for absolution via irony is foreign to them.”
(Late D. F. Wallace, Infinite Jest)
------
ElComradio
I would encourage anyone against these lynch mob driven decisions to
investigate the companies IAC owns and if possible cease doing business with
them, and to let them know why. In particular, OKCupid is in their portfolio.
~~~
jgh
Care to elaborate?
------
stevebot
weird to think about, but what if the scenario had been different and her
account was hacked? How would it have gone, would there have been any
vindication or recovery or would she have ended up in the same boat?
------
hashberry
Ever notice how most "Social Justice Warriors" are women who love to stir up
drama? As the NYTimes article states, this incident was highly entertaining to
many people.
------
hyperion2010
The funny thing is that taken literally the tweet is actually incredibly
damning of the inequality between access to treatment for blacks and whites.
White people DONT get fully blown AIDS because they have access to therapy.
The fact that the twitter community can't even distinguish between HIV and
AIDS is revealing of how hard they are projecting when they react to 140
characters or less. The reaction reveals a thousand times more about the
ignorance and hate of online communities than anything about the individual
they are responding to.
------
swamp40
Cool scrolling visual effect with those birds in the top illustration. Wonder
if it was intentional?
------
keepkalm
It seems like more than just one stupid tweet.
------
gumby
On a tangental meta point: this is a good, solid piece of _reportage_ [1]
which is increasingly uncommon. The author talked to a number of people over a
long period of time and uncovered subtleties that typically are ignored these
days. A particularly nice touch was to use of a relatively recent historical
reference from the mid 18th century. Mob justice and public shaming go back
millennia and it would have been easy to pull out a roman or biblical
reference. But he found one that actually focussed on the victimhood of the
transgressor. Lovely.
(Sorry to use a French term; I'm not intending to be pretentious, it's just
that the term "journalism" has been debased to the point where it is now
casually used to refer to advertising).
~~~
valgaze
It's b/c it's the NYTimes-- they actually do reporting & journalism.
There's seems to be a lot of piggybacking/freeloading off of original
reporting. I was involved with a project that got a big splashy NYTimes write
up and it was astonishing in the coming days to see how many joker press
outlets basically crimped off the Times' original reporting. They'd include a
link and all that but they'd lift the juciest quotes/content and the only
thing they'd contribute was some usually sassy commentary.
Here's a really vivid example-- great write up about Target detecting a
pregnancy from purchase data:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-
habits.h...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-
habits.html?pagewanted=all)
It's a great little news nugget- provocative, interesting, yadda yadda.
And then before you know it, all these "summary"/"reaction" stories get
published which didn't exactly contribute much or move the ball down the
field:
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-
targe...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-
figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/)
[http://techland.time.com/2012/02/17/how-target-knew-a-
high-s...](http://techland.time.com/2012/02/17/how-target-knew-a-high-school-
girl-was-pregnant-before-her-parents/)
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102859/How-
Target-k...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102859/How-Target-knows-
shoppers-pregnant--figured-teen-father-did.html)
[http://www.businessinsider.com/the-incredible-story-of-
how-t...](http://www.businessinsider.com/the-incredible-story-of-how-target-
exposed-a-teen-girls-pregnancy-2012-2)
I'm not sure if this is a real problem or not, but it seems kind of lame that
those other groups get to sit on their cans and pontificate while others get
out of their offices.
~~~
Brakenshire
See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churnalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churnalism):
> In his book Flat Earth News,[3] the British journalist Nick Davies reported
> a study at Cardiff University by Professor Justin Lewis and a team of
> researchers[4] which found that 80% of the stories in Britain's quality
> press were not original and that only 12% of stories were generated by
> reporters.[1]
------
paulhauggis
This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will
most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other
parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion.
It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having
an opinion that is different than their own.
The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched
against him and he was forced to quit.
I see this especially in many of the open source and tech communities, which
is why I no longer contribute.
I also don't post anything political on my Facebook account. A future employer
may look at this and judge me before I'm even hired..and decide not to hire
me. Just looking at my list of friends, most people don't seem to realize that
this may be a problem.
The same power that gives special interest groups and individuals the ability
to launch campaigns to get people fired gives companies the power to not hire
you based on your lifestyle or personal beliefs.
~~~
gnopgnip
Would society really be any better off if people aren't held accountable for
what they say?
~~~
jakejake
I kinda agree, a PR person of all people should be held accountable for making
a terrible joke that comes off as racist.
The problem is just the reaction of a mob of arm chair vigilantes thinking
they are each delivering some unique tiny bit of justice with their comments,
emails or calls. It's a death by a thousand cuts, not to mention the nut-cases
who send horrible threats of violence and worse.
It's obviously something ingrained in our DNA, it reminds me of nature
documentaries - watching a group of apes attack one of their own who they
perceive as weak.
~~~
spb
[McMurphy:] "Is this the usual pro-cedure for these Group Ther'py shindigs?
Bunch of chickens at a peckin' party?"
[…]
[Harding:]"A 'pecking party'? I fear your quaint down-home speech is wasted on
me, my friend. I have not the slightest inclination what you're talking
about."
"Why then, I'll just explain it to you." McMurphy raises his voice; though he
doesn't look at the other Acutes listening behind him, it's them he's talking
to. "The flock gets sight of a spot of blood on some chicken and they all go
to peckin' at it, see, till they rip the chicken to shreds, blood and bones
and feathers. But usually a couple of the flock gets spotted in the fracas,
then it's their turn. And a few more gets spots and gets pecked to death, and
more and more. Oh, a peckin' party can wipe out the whole flock in a matter of
a few hours, buddy, I seen it. A mighty awesome sight. The only way to prevent
it-with chickens-is to clip blinders on them. So's they can't see."
~~~
jakejake
great quote from a great movie. It's bizarre how much animal behavior we have
in us when you look closely.
~~~
spb
This is actually from the book, which is worth reading (also required reading,
in some American high schools).
------
Kenji
Stuff like that is analogous to threatening or killing cartoonists who mock
Muhammad (that is, insanely extreme reactions to relatively innocuous
actions). We just happen to agree with these cartoons, therefore we take the
side of the cartoonists. The mindset described in this article (social justice
bullying) is as much a hinderance to free speech as islamic extremism. But we
are blind to it.
~~~
matthewmacleod
I find it difficult to believe you actually think that – it's not really a
self-consistent viewpoint, given that what you describe as 'social justice
bullying' is _absolutely_ free speech.
~~~
Kenji
What is a hinderance to freedom of speech is not the bullying itself, but the
mindset behind it. If you can't make a foolish joke without having your entire
life ruined and getting fired, then yes that is the very definition of lack of
freedom of speech. Getting fired for a joke, come on? Action and reaction are
completely disproportionate. But worry not, I will absorb the downvotes like a
sponge for I know that my common sense has not gone missing yet.
~~~
matthewmacleod
I do agree that having one's life ruined over this sort of thing is
disproportionate, and that's something worth talking about. But we've got to
be careful not to overreact to this sort of thing, which just results in
shouting matches.
Let's remember that it's one thing to 'make a foolish joke', and it's another
thing to 'make a foolish joke in front of millions of people.' One of the
issues here is the lack of understand that people have about the act of
publishing, and I think we'd be better focusing on that.
------
freeasinfree
Comedians say much worse on a daily basis and rarely catch any flack. Are
regular people not allowed to make jokes?
~~~
bhayden
That is my issue with this. Daniel Tosh makes sexist, racist, and rape jokes
on a daily basis and people at large aren't up in arms threatening to strike
if he visits their workplace. To me this says these psuedo-activists care more
about picking on an easy target than actually preventing hurtful speech. Not
to mention the hypocrisy of many of those tweets when they call her a bitch,
or send her death threats.
~~~
icebraining
I'll let another comedian, George Carlin, explain:
_There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of
themselves. They’re only words. It’s the context that counts. It’s the user.
It’s the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are
completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking
about bad words and bad language._
_Bullshit! It’s the context that makes them good or bad. The context. That
makes them good or bad. For instance, you take the word “Nigger.” There is
absolutely nothing wrong with the word “Nigger” in and of itself. It’s the
racist asshole who’s using it that you ought to be concerned about. We don’t
care when Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy say it._
_Why? Because we know they’re not racist. They’re Niggers! Context. Context._
_We don’t mind their context because we know they’re black._
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pksx_IAHDE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pksx_IAHDE)
In this case, people know the context of Daniel Tosh's words, therefore they
don't mind. They minded here, because a Tweet has no context.
------
joesmo
Our culture, or lack thereof, is just unbelievable. If a comedian had made
that joke, it likely would have been no problem for him (there would still
have been some outrage no doubt), but people assume everything is so serious,
even when there is no logical reason to assume so. What infuriates me is that
the masses let idiots deny climate change and talk about how vaccines will
give you autism without shaming them, yet they destroy people's lives for
posting, let's face it, a funny joke. If you want to shame someone for being a
scumbag, there are plenty of targets but no one is doing it. If you want to
shame someone because you failed to understand the meaning of her statement,
however, that seems to be the zeitgeist. Why go after a real target when there
are innocent people out there who really cannot defend themselves and whose
misery you can really revel in? The irony of the story of the woman who took
the picture of the guy telling the joke and then got shamed herself is quite
delicious in many ways.
Posting anything on the Internet, whether it's public or not (or rather, you
think it's public or not) that you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing with the
whole world is just stupid. Maybe people will realize this at some point.
Hell, I'm worried about my home NAS that's not connected to the outside world,
is behind two firewalls, and is encrypted. Of course, if it's that sensitive,
it doesn't belong in any digital form.
------
devopsproject
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool
than to open it and remove all doubt - mark twain
~~~
profinger
+1
------
spain
Interesting article, though I wonder why the title here on Hacker News is "How
One Stupid Tweet Ruined Justine Sacco's Life" whereas the title on the actual
article is "How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life."
~~~
dang
NYT likes to tinker with titles. They don't change the urls as often, so if
you look at the url you'll sometimes see the original title.
------
FD3SA
Humans are sexually dimorphic primates. Primates form status hierarchies
spontaneously. Status is zero sum. Higher status males mate with the majority
of females. Low status males do not reproduce at all.
We are descendants of 40% of males and 80% of females. As religious and
legally enforced monogamy decline across all societies, we will see
increasingly vicious status wars across all human societies.
This writer is double dipping for his status points, as not only did he
specialize in attacking the status of others, but is now acting as the
merciful lord who has chosen to forgive those sinful peasants. Clever.
Monogamy was an aberration and an affront to nature, because it forced average
females to mate with average males, robbing them of their desire for the
highest status male's genetic material. In the past, male resource
provisioning was important, but the state has nullified that variable by
providing for all.
Status reigns supreme. Defend yours at all costs. Oh, and the best defense is
a great offense. Ah homo sapiens...such a fascinating species.
~~~
SafariDevelop
Uhh, what is the connection here? And how are you so sure that status wars did
not happen as much, if only in different forms, during the days of "enforced
monogamy"?
~~~
FD3SA
My mistake, I should have been more clear. The current "political correctness"
paradigm along with all of its associated hate mobs is a ferocious status
competition as a result of the unmet sexual and pair-bonding needs of singles.
Single males and females are different, in that females hold out for the
absolute highest status man for as long as possible, whereas males try to
poach any female who meets their minimum fertility requirements. Both end up
frustrated as dimorphic sexes have different sexual optimization strategies
which are impossible to satisfy simultaneously.
What's important to note is the psychological state of singleness, and its
resulting anxiety, is far more damaging than the actual lack of intercourse.
In the past, religious and social institutions attempted to prevent this by
encouraging early marriage and enforcing it with strict penalties. In the past
few decades, all of this has changed rapidly along with the development of
effective contraception.
This confluence of factors has thus lead to fiercer competition for each sex
as they double down on their strategies, both of which involve status as the
main currency. Males attempt to hoard status, and females attempt to attract
it. As such, we see far more ruthless status posturing and attacking, of which
this article lists many examples.
I did not believe my comments to be controversial, as any cursory glance of
the relevant scientific literature will reveal the mundane facts I've stated.
However, it appears my statements trigger an immune response in a group of HN
readers, for reasons that I can only guess involve discomfort with the
somewhat disturbing reality of man's evolutionary origins and predispositions.
I commend you for asking a question rather than reflexively recoiling in
disgust. I do believe we will have to confront our natures eventually. Running
from the mirror rarely works long term.
~~~
SafariDevelop
I did find your original comment interesting, but wasn't sure about its
relevance to this article. This comment is more clarifying, thanks.
I agree with your evopsych explanation. Political correctness is to do with
status, as noted by Kristian at [http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/the-economics-of-
political-correc...](http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/the-economics-of-political-
correctness) but even he doesn't go so far as to connect it to sexual
competition. Sexual competition, especially without enforced 1-on-1 pairings
(e.g.: marriage of the past), does lead to conflict. Cases like that of Elliot
Rodgers come to my mind.
However I'm not convinced that enforced monogamy has seen less conflict than
modern times. Can you back this argument with statistics? For example, did
crime rate increase? My feeling is that even in the good old days where 1-on-1
marriage was the norm, high-status males still surreptitiously poached females
paired with lower-status males. Per certain writers even the Victorian Era was
not immune to it.
Pinker suggests that violence has in fact declined over time:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature)
~~~
FD3SA
There is a widely observed empirical correlation between out of wedlock births
and poor outcomes for children, who grow to be dysfunctional adults. This is
was the first article from google when I searched the terms [1]. An excerpt:
"However, results of the study conclude that compared with "traditional
families," parents of fragile families are more likely to have become parents
in their teens, more likely to have had children with other partners, more
likely to be poor, suffer from depression, struggle with substance abuse, and
to have been incarcerated."
Aggregate crime may have decreased, but it is because we are still in the
unraveling phase of widespread monogamy. Once its vestiges have fully eroded,
then we will see the results.
1\. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lavar-young/children-out-of-
we...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lavar-young/children-out-of-
wedlock_b_868193.html)
------
malkia
Wondering why no one came up with "I'm Justine Sacco"
------
karangoeluw
How is she is victim here? How is Twitter bad here?
She made two racist comments in 1 tweet on her own will. That is not something
that should be taken lightly, no matter what the platform.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on whether firing her was fair or
not, but rather how her completely intentional tweets makes Twitter the bad
guy.
~~~
paganel
Exactly. You get to pay for your very stupid mistakes, especially those that
affect other people (like this lady's tweet did).
~~~
tjic
How, exactly, did her tweet affect people?
...unless you standard for "affect" covers all communication. In which case,
you're saying "People should pay for the sin of expressing an opinion or
making a joke".
...and perhaps you are.
~~~
paganel
> How, exactly, did her tweet affect people?
Have you ever been the victim or racism? If not, let's say you're in an open
group, you're of a certain nationality (let's call it X), and some other
member of that group starts making racist or xenophobic jokes about your
race/nationality.
By mistake my skin is white (so I've never been the victim of racist
jokes/looks, even though my brother, whose skin is browner, has been a victim
of said racist jokes), but being from a not-so-important-East-European country
I've been the victim of xenophobic remarks/jokes coming from people "with the
best intentions". They always, I mean always, hurt. It also hurts me why I
have to explain on HN why racist jokes hurt people. I've been in this
community for lots of years and never thought I'd see this day.
~~~
ptaipale
> By mistake my skin is white (so I've never been the victim of racist
> jokes/looks ...
Are you serious?
That white people couldn't be victims of racism? That only white people can be
racist? You've never met even just funny looks? Then you haven't been out to
the world too much.
I'm a big, white European, and when I was in China, I could hear myself being
referred to as "laowai" "or dabizi". I could have gotten mad, because yes
indeed by nose is big by Chinese standards and this is a reference to my
racial features, but I chose to carry on. The people mostly meant nothing bad.
Even the ones that actually maybe thought bad of me - possibly associating me
with Western colonialism, of which I or my country were quite innocent - did
nothing bad to me, so I let it be.
When our family went to the zoo, we were looking at the pandas, and a hundred
people were looking at us (Look! Three white kids!). Very slow looks. It may
be a bit awkward, but needs to be tolerated. I was just as much in awe when I
saw the first black person in my life.
But perhaps I can do this because there was nothing I could gain by acquiring
a victim identity. I'll leave getting mad to a time when someone actually
_tries_ to insult me.
------
lazyjones
Aren't all these Twitter sh*tstorms over within a few days, or in the worst
case, weeks? People should just sit them out and not panic / call their lives
ruined. Seems to work even for politicians.
~~~
tjic
Pax Dickinson is still unemployed a year later.
People's names become toxic. Note that the Donglegate guy wouldn't let his
name be used, and another woman in the article wouldn't do a followup
interview.
~~~
ForHackernews
To be fair, Pax Dickinson wasn't _one_ stupid tweet, it was a pattern of awful
shit over years. At some point, it's not a careless lapse anymore, you're just
a d-bag. A few examples:
"In The Passion Of The Christ 2, Jesus gets raped by a pack of niggers. It's
his own fault for dressing like a whore though."
"aw, you can't feed your family on minimum wage? well who told you to start a
fucking family when your skills are only worth minimum wage?"
"Who has more dedication, ambition, and drive? Kobe only raped one girl,
Lebron raped an entire city. +1 for Lebron."
And arguably the worst, for a freaking CTO:
"Tech managers spend as much time worrying about how to hire talented female
developers as they do worrying about how to hire a unicorn."
Would _you_ hire that guy to represent your company?
~~~
cheald
The first tweet, which seems to be the one that people reacted most strongly
to, is pretty clearly a lampooning of Mel Gibson. I suspect most people missed
that, though. It's distasteful, but it's not exactly Dickinson himself
expressing racist, victim-blaming sentiments; it's a mockery of them.
The second is a pretty standard libertarian talking-point (which is more
"personal responsibility rah rah rah" than "yay, starving poor people!"). The
third I don't really get (but I don't really follow basketball), and the
fourth I suspect you're misinterpreting as "Tech managers don't want to hire
women", when I think it's more "Tech managers don't care about the gender of
their developers"; the truth of the statement is debatable, but I do think it
takes some willful effort to read that and be offended by it.
I think Dickinson made unwise choices in how he chose to tweet, but I also
think the backlash he's suffered has been orders of magnitude worse than the
offense. He has been made _persona non grata_ to the point of being
unemployable over a handful of ill-considered tweets - he's unemployable now
because of the extent to which people have gone to associate him and anyone
associated with him with racism, rape, and sexism - regardless of the reality
of his actions.
On one hand, he's suffering the consequences of his decisions (see tweet #2
for some schadenfreude). On the other, because the internet loves a shitstorm,
it seems that the magnitude of the consequences are way out of line with the
original offense.
~~~
ForHackernews
> the fourth I suspect you're misinterpreting as "Tech managers don't want to
> hire women", when I think it's more "Tech managers don't care about the
> gender of their developers"
You're giving that the most contorted, charitable reading possible. In your
reading, the reference to a "unicorn" is nonsensical. I would argue the
accurate reading is: "Tech managers don't spend time worrying about hiring
talented women because [like unicorns] they are mythical and don't exist."
Now, the further implications behind that statement might be:
a) Talented female developers _are_ rare--we need to make serious efforts to
improve the educational pipeline and get more young girls interested in
programming.
b) Talented female developers are rare, but it's not the tech industry's job
to worry or care about that.
c) Talented female developers aren't rare, but [usually male] hiring managers
are too blinded by sexism to recognize them.
> regardless of the reality of his actions.
That's the thing. We don't know the reality of his actions. Based only on his
tweets (I don't know him personally), he certainly sounds like he _might_ be
the kind of guy who would discriminate in his hiring. He might not even do it
consciously, he'd just think "Well, I only hire the best" and in his mind,
"the best" does not include women.
~~~
cheald
If you take that tweet in isolation and read it as a comparison of female
developers to unicorns, then sure, I can see how you arrive at that
conclusion. I think it's a faulty conclusion, and I think that its faultiness
is further illustrated by his response to the whole drama, in which he
explicitly clarified his stance of female developers. My reading of it is
based on what I know of him, which does not consist solely of a Valleywag
article and four tweets.
You're exemplifying the worst of the Twitter lynchmob problem here; you took a
tweet, extrapolated it into a full sum of a person, and then don't bother to
establish any further context and have decided that the author is a racist,
sexist psychopath based on a context-free reading of a one-sentence statement.
That's great for feeling superior to people, but it's pretty awful for useful
dialog.
~~~
ForHackernews
> illustrated by his response to the whole drama, in which he explicitly
> clarified his stance of female developers.
I mean, obviously he's going to say that. I'm not sure how much stock you want
to put into after-the-fact PR damage control. I think actions speak louder
than words, and I'd reserve judgment before hearing from some of the women
developers who he's hired (he has hired women, right?) about how he was to
work under, what he was like as a boss (not as a co-founder).
You accuse me of "exemplifying the worst of the Twitter lynchmob problem" but
I'm trying hard to be as neutral and generous as possible. I listed three
possible implications of that tweet, only one of which is explicitly negative,
and you claim I've "decided that the author is a racist, sexist psychopath".
If anyone is guilty of twitter-like hyperbole in this conversation, it's you.
~~~
cheald
Well, there are both of these, in which the women who worked with him defend
him (Julie Sommerville in particular):
[http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/11/ladyboss/](http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/11/ladyboss/)
[http://www.amyvernon.net/glimpse/why-ive-joined-glimpse-
labs...](http://www.amyvernon.net/glimpse/why-ive-joined-glimpse-labs/)
If you _didn 't_ think that Dickinson was being a racist, misogynistic,
victim-blaming rape apologist, why those tweets in particular? This whole
discussion is happening in the implict context of the Valleywag article that
touched this whole thing off, where those explicit accusations were made with
those tweets as evidence - we aren't discussing this issue in a vacuum here.
They're certainly in bad taste, but bad taste doesn't deserve the accusations
that he's had thrown at him. You listed multiple implications of the tweet,
but then called it "the worst" of a lot that include jokes with racial slurs
about rape of a venerated religious figure, so it's pretty safe to infer that
you aren't giving it any of the charitable readings; if you were, it wouldn't
be anything worth mentioning!
My point in all of this, relevant to the original article, is that these sorts
of accusations can have a profound and disproportionate impact on those
affected, even if the truth is something else entirely. I think it's
unfortunate that Dickinson was fired from BI because they couldn't afford to
have the accusations against him associated with their brand (and note that it
was the baggage that was the issue, not him _actually being_ a misogynist to
his employees or whatnot), but I don't think it's an unreasonable response -
he made a bad choice in what he said, and he suffered the consequences of it.
I do think it's unreasonable that he remains effectively unemployable because
of the bogeyman that has been constructed around his name in which those
tweets are trotted out with accusations of racism and sexism every time
someone mentions him.
~~~
ForHackernews
> why those tweets in particular?
Because those are the tweets that got him fired. Obviously!
Fine, let's say Pax Dickinson is a completely wonderful guy without a bigoted
bone in his body.
He still showed _monumentally_ bad judgment. I don't buy your premise that
losing your C-level position (and being unable to find another one) after
carrying on for years the way he did is such a "profound and disproportionate
impact". He demonstrated repeatedly that he's not willing to comport himself
in a professional way in public. I also dispute that he is "effectively
unemployable". He can certainly go get a job at McDonalds, because he's
demonstrated that he's unqualified to be a corporate executive.
Edit: After reading the links you sent, it seems like the women he's worked
with don't have a problem with him. So maybe he's not an asshole, he just
plays one on twitter.
Still, you've really shot your own argument in the foot here:
> Shevinsky told me just the other day that she was still a bit uncertain
> about Dickinson after returning to Glimpse. “I was hoping he wouldn’t blow
> _his second chance_ , because a third chance would be a challenge.” _Now
> he’s co-founder of a company_ with a strong female CEO and a strong female
> advisor
Tell me again about how he's "effectively unemployable" and has
disproportionately had his career destroyed forever?
~~~
cheald
Yeah, he showed bad judgement. I'm not sure I agree that it was "monumentally
bad". The fact of the matter is that he lost his job and has baggage that
follows him around because people continue to perpetuate the Valleywag-
constructed outrage, not because of actual behavioral sexism or racism (the
accusations of which pretty rapidly evaporate upon closer inspection). It's
not something that will blow over in a couple of weeks, because it's an
enormous straw man that has taken on a life of its own at this point.
Regarding employability, you'll note that article is from Dec 2013. He's now
gone from Glimpse.
> I also knew that I was holding Elissa back. I know my baggage was hurting
> the company. We were asked to insert clauses that would strip my equity if I
> “embarrassed” the company and it’s reasonable to assume that my presence as
> co-founder made other VCs shy away from us, which is heartbreaking to me
> because Elissa is fucking amazing and deserves better than that.
He further writes:
> My career has been irretrievably damaged. I’ll always have trouble finding a
> job. It used to be easy for me but even a year later I find that recruiters
> shy away and applications to jobs I’m well qualified for don’t result in a
> call back. I’m not worried, I know that with enough time I’ll find someone
> who doesn’t mind my notoriety given my skills, but I’ll always pay a very
> real price for this whole incident.
If he says it's still following him around, I'm inclined to believe him,
because...well, he'd be the one to know.
------
taylorwc
I think they article would more aptly have been titled, "How One Thoughtless
Public Expression of Justine Sacco's Lack of Judgment and Racism Had
Consequences." Really hard to feel sympathy for her.
~~~
theorique
How about, "one ironic joke, and then a long flight where she could not
communicate that she was being ironic, cost Justine Sacco a lot".
She wasn't being racist, she was lampooning American insularity.
Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't get that it was a joke, and/or didn't
get the joke, and she paid the price.
~~~
taylorwc
Even if one were to give her the benefit of the doubt on whether or not her
tweets express racist sentiment, there's still a stupendous lack of judgment
on her part. She's saying things publicly, associated with her name. Anyone
who expresses something in that fashion should be fully prepared to deal with
backlash. She should have the right to express her views, even if they are
unpopular--and she should be willing to handle the consequences.
~~~
theorique
Perhaps, but in this case, the consequences were really disproportionate to
the "crime".
Here's what "should" have happened:
<sacco>: <original tweet>
<public>: Hey, that's really racist.
<sacco>: Oh, I didn't mean it that way - I'm making fun of American
insularity.
<public>: OK, I still don't like it, but I get what you meant now.
~~~
taylorwc
I agree with you that there was an overreaction. But that's a risk each of us
runs when we publish something via a public medium. Any time I want to publish
something, whether it's a private SMS, a tweet, a comment on HN, or something
else, I'm obliged to consider its content, and make a judgment call on whether
it's appropriate. If I'm wrong, I have to deal with it.
------
lbarrow
How was her life ruined? She lost her job, then got a new one. Her life seems
fine.
~~~
mynameisvlad
Did you even read the article?
\- She _was_ jobless for a period of time, and there's a lot of stress that
comes with that.
\- Her family seemed to be set on disowning her for tarnishing their name.
\- She can't date without someone Googling her and most likely being turned
off by what they find.
~~~
venomsnake
Turned off by what? A tweet ... unless for couple of million participants in
the oppression olympics, for the sane people having said or done something
offensive is not a big deal.
~~~
mynameisvlad
If so many people were offended on the internet, is it _that_ big of a stretch
that people in real life might be turned off too? Just because you or I don't
think it's a big deal does not mean that others might share the same opinion.
I could _easily_ see how someone might be turned off, especially before
actually meeting the person.
~~~
venomsnake
Actually yes. Internet is not real and is the place where everyone overreacts.
As long as she is above the hot/crazy line, she won't be turned down dating
for such a petty "offence"
~~~
mynameisvlad
You do realize that a concept in HIMYM does not accurately apply in real life,
right?
------
moron4hire
Was it really just _one_ stupid tweet? It looks like a lot more than one to
me.
------
steven777400
Articles like this lend credence to the occasionally heard wisdom "Don't post
anything personal on the internet, ever." I tell people I think that society
is moving beyond digging into people's lives for little infractions, since
with so much social media, everyone is guilty, but apparently that's not true.
Or at least, not true yet.
------
jim_greco
1) It's an offensive tweet. Whether you intend something to be offensive or
not doesn't make it any less offensive.
2) It's very easy to pass off casual racism as a joke or a misunderstanding of
the medium after it blows up in your face.
~~~
wallyhs
You can't control what other people find offensive, and you can't avoid
offending other people. You can control your own reaction to what you find
offensive.
~~~
jim_greco
That's a very simple way to look at human interactions and it doesn't give you
a licensce to go around saying whatever you want.
------
q2
A bit off-topic but following similarity is noteworthy:
From this article:
>>> They were both to be “whipped at the public whipping post 20 stripes
each.”
__This was year 1742. __
From the web ([http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/raif-badawi-to-
be-p...](http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/raif-badawi-to-be-publicly-
flogged-every-week-for-months-after-insulting-islam/story-
fnh81ifq-1227185842850))
>>>HE IS brought before the crowd and whipped relentlessly 50 times with a
long, hard cane.
__This is year 2015. __
But you can notice the similarity in punishments.
We need to understand that society in every country evolves over time at its
__own pace __. This evolution can take centuries of time in some cases because
societies has to understand and readjust peacefully as much as they can.
I guess American political leadership needs to understand and remember these
parts of their history before pointing out and shaming/preaching other
countries on human rights,intolerance...etc.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What service/SW that no longer exists have you been unable to replace? - Futurebot
======
elcano
All software acquired by Oracle. Well, not really all....but you know that
many Oracle acquisitions are motivated or if the need to remove a competitor
and keep their customers. The disappearance of Brio Intelligence Designer
(a.k.a. Brio Query) is a sad story. First merged into Hyperion, then diluted
into bland Oracle products.
[http://www.techrepublic.com/article/brioquery-helps-
simplify...](http://www.techrepublic.com/article/brioquery-helps-simplify-
reporting/)
It had a visual query designer that was easy to use for mid to advanced power
users without SQL knowledge, and didn't require the pre-join of tables as most
self-service competitors do. So far I haven't seen anything as easy and
powerful at the same time.
------
mod
Online poker in the US
------
ksherlock
Google search.
------
jpincheira
very funny, you made me smile :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
React v15.6.0 Released - petercooper
https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2017/06/13/react-v15.6.0.html
======
linkmotif
What is remarkable is the onChange input event after all these releases is
still being improved. This is a testament to how difficult it is to normalize
browser differences and not some failing on the part of the React team and
contributors. If only people knew how difficult this one little element can
be. It's a shame it's so complicated.
------
grizzles
Just curious, what do react folks think about this blog
post:[http://joonhachu.blogspot.com.au/2015/12/dont-use-flux-or-
re...](http://joonhachu.blogspot.com.au/2015/12/dont-use-flux-or-redux-for-
react.html)
To me, the application wide bus paradigm is elegant, and find it surprising
that redux is currently more fashionable than this approach.
Thoughts?
~~~
hliyan
Having used both Flux and Redux for fairly large projects for the past two
years, I have finally come to the conclusion that I really don't need either.
I tried to summarize my alternative here, although I'm sure many will
disagree:
[http://zen.lk/2017/05/08/you-might-not-need-
redux/](http://zen.lk/2017/05/08/you-might-not-need-redux/)
~~~
foodie_
I hate to pile on, but we introduced react and redux at my startup and it (the
project, not the company) largely failed due to the increased complexity of
redux itself, and a coding style of hyper abstraction.
Maybe it works on large teams and code bases, but it is unnecessary on smaller
teams where sane code practices are enough.
~~~
acemarke
Can you give some details on what issues you ran into, and what "hyper
abstraction" meant?
------
beefsack
This is a very minor release, mainly just covering some bug fixes and
deprecation warnings. It's not terribly noteworthy.
~~~
Strom
Some of those IE11 input bugs have been annoying me for a long time. Glad to
see them fixed.
------
ljoshua
Downgrading the deprecation warnings to console.warn instead of console.error
will be nice until all the third-party libraries catch up with the changes in
v15.5. It's the small things.
~~~
BigJono
Using console.error for warnings was silly in the first place. The solution to
people ignoring warnings is to change that mindset, not to reduce the
granularity of information and make everything red. I see the same thing with
ESLint a lot.
~~~
jankassens
For a long time, console.error had a stack trace in the Chrome devtools while
console.warn didn't. I believe this was the main motivation to use
console.error.
~~~
BigJono
Ahhh, that makes a lot more sense!
------
usuallybaffled
Do they follow semantic versioning? If so, does that mean there have been 15
releases with major breaking changes?
~~~
vizzier
They switched from 0.14 to 15.0 to reflect react being production ready. See
here: [https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2016/02/19/new-
version...](https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2016/02/19/new-versioning-
scheme.html)
------
pcmaffey
I noticed Fiber is now passing all it's tests. Anyone have an idea when
release is planned?
~~~
felipeko
According to a member of the dev team: 'We are aiming for sometime in the
second half of the year. There's still a few details to work out beyond just
feature parity with 15. '
[https://www.reddit.com/r/reactjs/comments/6g3e98/react_fiber...](https://www.reddit.com/r/reactjs/comments/6g3e98/react_fiber_100_of_unit_test_passing_thanks_react/dinq9k3/)
------
chacham15
I noticed that fibers tests'[1] are at 100% passing, so I got excited for a
second. Looks like this is in preparation of that.
[1] [http://isfiberreadyyet.com/](http://isfiberreadyyet.com/)
------
cutler
If you want real state management with immutable data just use Clojurescript
and Reagent. Leiningen will also free you from JS tooling hell.
------
minmaxmux
Minus minus, is that automatic if you dare to criticise facebook ? Do I loose
my facebook and instagram now also ?
------
amelius
Please consider to stop using/contributing to software of companies, if you
don't agree with the way they conduct business or treat their users.
There are various open-source alternatives to React, which are not encumbered
with underlying malpractices such as large-scale user-tracking, data silo
lock-in, selling of data to advertisers.
~~~
coldtea
> _which are not encumbered with underlying malpractices such as large-scale
> user-tracking, data silo lock-in, selling of data to advertisers._
React is not encumbered by "large-scale user-tracking, data silo lock-in,
selling of data to advertisers". Nor it is of any much benefit to Facebook
whether devs adopt React or not. In the grand scheme of things, they could not
care less.
Perhaps you meant for people to stop using Facebook instead?
~~~
amelius
> React is not encumbered by
Perhaps I should have chosen the words "funded by" instead. It shouldn't make
a big difference to a reader willing to understand the true meaning of this
appeal.
> Nor it is of any much benefit to Facebook whether devs adopt React or not.
> In the grand scheme of things, they could not care less.
Open-source is not a uni-directional thing. Otherwise, why would companies
like Facebook use it in the first place? There are numerous reasons why large
companies are leveraging open source. See [1] for a list. Using React equals
supporting Facebook.
> Perhaps you meant for people to stop using Facebook instead?
That's like asking people to stop using telephone. Facebook has them locked
in. There are alternatives to React, but there are no alternatives to Facebook
(for most people).
[1] [https://www.quora.com/Why-do-huge-profit-oriented-
software-c...](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-huge-profit-oriented-software-
companies-contribute-to-open-source-software-when-it-is-akin-to-doing-charity-
work-which-runs-against-their-commercial-instinct)
~~~
coldtea
> _Perhaps I should have chosen the words "funded by" instead. It shouldn't
> make a big difference to a reader willing to understand the true meaning of
> this appeal._
How about you thinking this through though?
We shouldn't e.g. use Firefox because it's largely funded by Google's search
money?? We shouldn't use Node because Blink is funded by Google again? And
what if Facebook decides to fund some open source platform? Will that be
tainted too, and we should avoid it as well?
Or maybe it's only when a company has created/controls the project? Then we
shouldn't use Golang because Google? We shouldn't use LLVM because is funded
by Apple? We shouldn't use Java because it's funded by Oracle?
> _Using React equals supporting Facebook._
Barely, and it gives way more value to the community than it does to Facebook.
Facebook could close down its React involvement right now, and it would hardly
affect its market cap or its ability to find developers to work there.
> _That 's like asking people to stop using telephone. Facebook has them
> locked in. There are alternatives to React, but there are no alternatives to
> Facebook (for most people)._
There are 100s of alternatives, including good old email, myriad IM and chat
and video apps, sms messages, Slack, and so on, one button personal blogs, and
so on, including other social web and mobile apps and platforms.
Merely 25 years ago we had almost none of those options and NO Facebook and we
got on just fine. Now we have ALL of those options, and for some reason we
just can't do without Facebook?
Besides, if there's really no alternative to people using Facebook that paints
your proposal in an even more useless light: hey people, you can't stop using
the $50 billion behemoth's crap, but you can hurt it with less than a pin-
prick by not using some GOOD stuff it produces for developers. That's not
"making a difference" that's nonsensical.
~~~
amelius
> We shouldn't e.g. use Firefox because it's largely funded by Google's search
> money?
You are right but you are being pedantic here. This is all about political
agendas and supporting the good ones versus not supporting the bad ones.
Please stick to the essence of the discussion.
> Facebook could close down its React involvement right now, and it would
> hardly affect its market cap or its ability to find developers to work
> there.
Please list me the reasons why you think Facebook is using open source then?
And don't be selective.
> There are 100s of alternatives, including good old email, (...)
Yes, there are alternatives but they are not accessible because users have
been locked into the network of Facebook. That was the point.
~~~
coldtea
> _Please list me the reasons why you think Facebook is using open source
> then? And don 't be selective._
Very simply: because it gives them some developer good will and cheap PR for
next to nothing. They want React for their internal use anyway, and it's just
a minimal amount of time to have their devs maintain a project page and accept
public comments and changesets.
It makes their devs happier too, to think that they don't just work for FB,
but also give something back to the community.
But for FB, the corporation, and for their scale and their core business,
React and all the value their open source efforts put together bring in, is
insignificant -- statistical noise.
~~~
amelius
I think you are greatly underestimating the value of developer good will.
> it's just a minimal amount of time to have their devs maintain a project
> page and accept public comments and changesets.
It's really a lot of work to maintain a project of this size, and all of its
issues and documentation. I'm guessing it easily doubles the total amount of
work.
> It makes their devs happier too, to think that they don't just work for FB,
> but also give something back to the community.
I would go further and say that these devs would be unhappy and question the
meaning of their work without such projects.
> But for FB (...) React (...) is insignificant
Perhaps, perhaps not. But I am personally not supporting this any further, and
doing my best not to be hypocritical by on the one hand criticizing Facebook
and how they abuse their users in every conceivable way, and on the other hand
applauding their open source efforts.
~~~
coldtea
> _I think you are greatly underestimating the value of developer good will._
And I think that you greatly overestimating it.
Especially for a company like Facebook, whose business doesn't depend on
developers anyway (even their "FB apps" platform is not such a big thing
compared to FB core).
> _It 's really a lot of work to maintain a project of this size, and all of
> its issues and documentation. I'm guessing it easily doubles the total
> amount of work._
For a tiny team of a few devs, compared to the 1000s FB has on its payroll.
Even if they spend like $1 million per year for just the "public open source"
part of it, it's still peanuts.
> _But I am personally not supporting this any further, and doing my best not
> to be hypocritical by on the one hand criticizing Facebook and how they
> abuse their users in every conceivable way, and on the other hand applauding
> their open source efforts._
Is that hypocritical though? Sounds more like calling something bad bad, and
something good good, even if it comes from the same entity.
Which is something we should strive for maybe?
~~~
amelius
> Is that hypocritical though? Sounds more like calling something bad bad, and
> something good good, even if it comes from the same entity. Which is
> something we should strive for maybe?
I can answer that with simply: _not_ if the good is reinforcing the bad.
Because then it is hypocritical by definition.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
People Who Do Not Exist Invade Facebook - ericzawo
https://analysis.leadstories.com/3471185-fake-faces-people-Who-Do-Not-Exist-Invade-Facebook-To-Influence-2020-Elections.html
======
didericis
The worst thing about widespread fake information is the ease with which you
can convince yourself that everything you don't like is fake. We don't really
have a defense against it that allows for people with opposing perspectives to
coexist.
I wonder if it's possible to somehow create a "consistency checker" that can
check to see what claims are compatible with what other claims. Not a truth
checker; that's far too dangerous and easily abused. But a system that just
checks for consistency, combined with a "web of trust" where you can see the
connections to people with different perspectives who you know are NOT
liars/can connect to events you KNOW are true. That might help people trust
information from outside of their comfort zone and identify problems with
their own outlook.
There's precedent for that kind of a thing in the math world. MetaMath is an
example of a system that verifies proofs based on substitution rules alone,
plus whatever axioms you add to the system. Natural language news stories that
need to correspond to reality are obviously a much different beast, and maybe
it's impossible to do something equivalent with knowledge that isn't as
rigid/formal as math, but it's tempting to try.
Could easily backfire and make the problem worse if done improperly, though.
The risk is that such a system could be taken over/hijacked my ideologically
motivated individuals to reinforce their own ideas and hide inconsistencies
rather than shine a light on them.
~~~
knzhou
> I wonder if it's possible to somehow create a "consistency checker" that can
> check to see what claims are compatible with what other claims.
Bad news: the political narratives of whatever party you don't like _are_
self-consistent, and perfectly consistent with the facts that they hear about.
The people you think are ignorant are _already_ seeking out news from sources
they know and trust, and they _already_ evaluate new information in the
context of whatever they already believe. The issue is just not as simple as
you suggest.
~~~
didericis
Don't get me wrong, in no way am I suggesting this is an easy problem to fix.
I'm aware of how good people are at cramming huge amounts of knowledge into a
siloed yet consistent narrative (and I am not claiming myself to be completely
innocent of this either, though I think I try fairly hard not to). I'm also
well aware of the extreme difficulty in making a system that can automatically
check for consistency in the way I'm describing.
However, there are chinks in ideological armor which, if given the right
light, can cause breaches and get people to collaborate and understand one
another better.
I would argue that the current lack of any form of reliable, extensive
consistency checker that people can trust (ie, a SYSTEM they can trust rather
than a group of people) leads people to silo themselves into small, isolated
networks. They don't operate outside of their network, even though there might
be information out there somewhere that's valuable and would cause their
worldview to expand, because they know there are at least some nefarious
actors putting out inconsistent/untrue information, and it's too hard to
identify.
If there were some way to automatically "expand" your axioms and see how much
of the world they can explain while maintaining their consistency, it could
theoretically be a non biased, trustworthy way of testing your assumptions of
the world outside of your own, small, limited network, and might help people
recognize what parts of the world it is and isn't explaining.
~~~
pixl97
I'm not sure any human system is self consistent. Our entire society is built
on incomplete information.
~~~
blotter_paper
Indeed, I've long desired such a tool not as a weapon to convince my enemies
of their logical flaws but as a mirror to convince myself of my own.
------
avivo
I actually just published a guide on how you can help ensure that ("deepfake")
tools that you make are less likely to end up misused like this:
[https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614912/ethical-
deepfake-t...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614912/ethical-deepfake-
tools-a-manifesto/)
Curious what folks think. I also just posted it to /newest if you want to
respond there.
~~~
catalogia
Is anybody old enough to remember if people once had analogous reactions to
software like photoshop?
~~~
michaelbuckbee
I am (mid-forties) and started using Photoshop around version 2. People
definitely worried about the integrity of photographic evidence.
I think what's different now is the combination of much more powerful cheaper
tools (those fake GAN generated faces are likely taken from one of the sites
making them for free) vs Photoshop at the time was thousands of inflation-
adjusted dollars.
This is coupled with a much more efficient peer to peer and unvalidated news
system (which there's much to like), but consider Dan Rather. He was forced
out of CBS Evening News and producers were fired for having been fooled by
(not producing) digitally forged memos for a story critical of George W. Bush.
[1]
Contrast that to whatever group is putting up fake stories and accounts of
Facebook, there are no repercussions.
1 -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather#Killian_documents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather#Killian_documents)
~~~
btilly
What is even crazier about the Dan Rather story is that the story about how
George W. Bush avoided Vietnam due to political manipulation and bribes was
actually TRUE.
Before it was ever reported in the USA it was reported in the UK by The
Guardian among others. Dan Rather's team started their investigation with
sources in hand which already constituted very strong evidence.
Given that the story was true _and_ Dan Rather's team was starting with solid
evidence of it, Bush's team was at a disadvantage in discrediting the story.
Their solution was to slip a clearly faked smoking gun that was so good that
Rather would have to lead with it. After Rather lead with it, Bush's team was
able to discredit Rather and get him fired. The result was that the story
became toxic and nobody in the USA was willing to report the story.
The result is rather amazing. By faking evidence for what really did happen,
Bush's team was able to make everyone believe that it didn't happen! And was
able to keep the story out of the US media!
~~~
nradov
That's an interesting conspiracy theory. Now where's the hard evidence?
~~~
btilly
I read it in one of Greg Palast's books. He reported on the story for the BBC,
and knew what evidence Rather's team started with because he was one of the
people who supplied it to them. You can also still find reporting on the story
online from The Guardian if you look for it.
See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Palast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Palast)
for more on the reporter that I named.
And lest you think that this kind of dirty and underhanded trick would have
been off limits, see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth)
for a more widely known story of the underhanded tricks used by Bush
supporters in that particular election.
~~~
nradov
So no actual evidence, just innuendo.
~~~
btilly
Let's see.
I pointed you at an author who is a reporter for the BBC. I am not sure which
of his books it is in, but that shouldn't be too hard to find out. (My guess
is _Armed Madhouse_.) He lays out the interviews and documents that were
sufficient for the BBC to report the story as fact. This is all verifiable.
According to you, this is "just innuendo". And therefore you have dismissed it
out of hand.
The BBC is not in the habit of publishing as fact what is "just innuendo".
~~~
nradov
I looked at the BBC reports. There's no hard evidence, just innuendo and
hearsay. You're making things up.
------
ProAm
What age demographic still really uses facebook? American's 35+? All my
friends us Messenger and the rest is on other social media platforms for
content.
_edit_ dont know why this got downvoted, it was a legit question because
everyone knows who the primary age group of votes is, so Im wondering if there
is data on age demographics of actual FB use.
~~~
txcwpalpha
>All my friends us Messenger and the rest is on other social media platforms
for content.
Be cognizant of your bubble. All of my friends (aka people I actually
regularly interact with) don't ever use FB anymore, but a quick glance at my
FB feed shows that a huge population of people from my high school (people in
their mid-to-late 20s), mostly the ones I haven't interacted with in years,
still use it heavily.
~~~
ProAm
I agree, that is why I asked the question. Has there been real research done
to determine who the most active deep users of the platform are. Im not
judging people that do or dont use it, for any reason, just curious about the
efficacy of these fake users trying to shape a platform for an election (I
assume that is what the fraudulent accounts are for).
------
jeffdavis
It will be interesting when the election cycles start to cross over into
eachother. For instance, start lining up primaries for an election 5 years
away. We could be in a permenent election, with people slowly positioning
themselves to be elected sometime later.
Then, we can finally give up and just draft our representatives. Two months
before it's time for new politicians to take over, they would draw names, and
do 6am door-kicking raids to abduct the "candidates" and take them to D.C. to
represent us.
~~~
ajmurmann
Trump never stopped campaigning as it is. He has been holding rallies this
entire time.
~~~
9HZZRfNlpR
Who are those people who go to political rallies? This feels so alien to me.
Americans support their politicians like the rest of the world their local
club and badge and vice versa.
~~~
ajmurmann
Having grown up in Germany, the concept is super scary.
------
schnevets
Facebook won the social media war by cultivating a smaller, more selective
group of users (college students). It meant sharing had some more definitive
meaning, and provided some added safety for marketplace and message board
functions. It was their secret weapon against the MySpaces and CraigsLists,
and yet they completely abandoned it.
If they really wanted to further their company mission, their Manhattan
Project should have been a plan to keep the internet authentic and "owned" by
humans. I no longer think this will be their downfall (it has been a problem
in the system since at least 2012), but I cannot think of a more stark example
of a company trashing an original philosophy so wholeheartedly.
~~~
knzhou
That is a catch-22, isn't it? The common definition of "winning the social
media war" is to get a lot of users. That is inherently contradictory to
"cultivating" a "selective group". Just as water flows downhill, there will
inevitably be a few most popular social networks, which will inevitably be
driven by clickbait and moral panic and targeted by all bad actors.
I already saw that happen with atheism. When I was young you had to be pretty
far from normal to be really into it, and there was some fantasy that once
everybody was an athiest, society would be cool and rational. Now about a
hundred million Americans are effectively athiests and we're no more rational
than before. The problems stayed the same, because people stayed the same.
~~~
mistersquid
> Now about a hundred million Americans are effectively athiests and we're no
> more rational than before.
The US has approximately 330 million people. Asserting more than 1/3 of all
adults (330 million includes children) in the US are atheist is a bold and, in
your comment, unsubstantiated claim.
~~~
klyrs
This is a weird tangent, and "effectively atheist" is an ill-defined umbrella,
but if we take that to mean "no religion / unaffiliated / atheist / agnostic"
then it doesn't seem too far off.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_Sta...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States)
------
fareesh
On Facebook you would mostly encounter such people if someone you know shares
their posts. Comments are buried too deep to have a widespread impact.
If a fake person writes the post and your friend shares it, or a guy named
"Joe the Plumber" writes it, does it really make a difference?
It is also in the realm of possibility that a group of folks is "false
flagging" these profiles to make the other side look disingenuous and shady.
~~~
creaghpatr
Sure, in fact there’s a term for that called Ratfucking.
~~~
sillysaurusx
... what?
~~~
catalogia
It's a real term in American politics:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratfucking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratfucking)
~~~
sillysaurusx
Thanks! Now I've seen everything. (It's official; with that one link, that was
the everything.)
------
buboard
love how the only facebook comment under the article is a fake "make money
from home" bot
~~~
mcadenhe
It's poetic really. I bet most of us saw that too but because of the all-too-
familiar bot text didn't think twice about it. Kind of like banner blindness.
It makes me wonder just how much damage these influence campaigns do. For
instance, if Russia spent $100k in FB ads to reach ~140 million
people[1]([https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-
chaos/2019/04/18/w...](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-
chaos/2019/04/18/what-the-mueller-report-tells-us-about-russian-influence-
operations/)), how much of that "reach" translates into votes? I'd like to
think people aren't as dumb as people think.
~~~
bluntfang
>I'd like to think people aren't as dumb as people think.
It's not really about people being smart or dumb. There's evidence that
marketing and advertisements create sentiment, even if you don't believe in
what the ads say. It's just the way our human brains work. And these entities
are, if I had to bet, putting a lot of money towards getting people to believe
certain things and act in certain ways without them explicitly knowing that
they're being influenced.
------
rvz
I'd like to remind everyone that as we are fast approaching the prospect of
hundreds of thousands of AIs and bots graduating from their Turing Tests, we
must take the internet's own proverb very seriously.
Do not believe everything you see on the internet.
------
sjwright
It doesn’t matter how autonomous and free thinking you are or any other
individual is— social media is transforming us into a collective. Like ants
excreting pheromones, our actions in aggregate are more powerful than any
individual, the result being whatever results from this untested cocktail of
biology, language and global connection. It’s unprecedented and borderline
unpredictable.
Nobody is in a position to directly manipulate our path... but our trajectory,
if nudged in the right place and time, can have massive consequences in the
future. Both the left and the right in the US are dysfunctional as a result of
trajectories that were nudged decades ago.
~~~
onlyrealcuzzo
How is this worse than tightly controlled mass media?
I think people like to look back on this non-existent golden era of News where
it was fair and balanced and just reported the truth. That era never existed.
At least now you have options.
I hate social media as much as anyone, but it's not bringing an end to the
world. It's easy to manipulate people of Facebook. But it's way easier on Fox
News or CNN.
~~~
zo1
You have options but you are being manipulated in subtle ways, whether
nefariously or not. And that "manipulation" is a whole lot more hidden due to
simply being "algorithms". On some level it is getting a free-pass compared to
traditional media where you can clearly see the bias.
~~~
knzhou
"Algorithms" aren't mind controlling magic. Even if they can shift your
political opinions accidentally, there are tons of people trying their hardest
to do that _on purpose_. Your feed is filtered, so are the articles in your
favorite newspaper.
------
josephjrobison
Just a few paragraphs in, the writer incorrectly states that Unsplash requires
attribution, which is the exact opposite of the entire premise of Unsplash.
If the writer can’t pick up on that obvious fact, makes me trust the whole
story less.
------
blakesterz
There's another story (I assume of many) over at the NY Times with the
headline "Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles".
I rather like the "People Who Do Not Exist" in this headline.
------
jinpan
To blend in with humans, these fake profiles could take advantages of AI
progress on the Turing test to converse with real people, ultimately
befriending (some high fraction of) us.
The persuasive effects of these fake friends on (political) advertising are
terrifying.
~~~
kpennell
I have a couple fake profiles I setup. Pretty easy to do!
------
digi59404
Did anyone stop and consider these aren’t fake people but people who value
anonymity?
I have 20 friends who use such tools and tech to hide their identities. Yes
they lean right, slightly but they do. They all do this to avoid being found
by employers and other. One of my friends is a prominent person in a legal
field, another one is a member of a three letter group.
Other than my real name - My Facebook profile has all fake information for
public facing as well. It always has - and it always will. Any AI viewing my
profile or person viewing my profile has no means of identifying me as a real
person unless they coorelate my name elsewhere.
For many of my friends - Their real name is not used.
In an era of fake news and “ZOMG RUSSIA” we’ve become our worst selves and
thrown logic out the window instead falling victim to knee jerk reactions.
~~~
elliekelly
Surely that scenario is the exception and not the rule.
But also, if you have the Facebook app on your phone, or associated with your
phone number or email, you’re not anonymous. It’s been an issue for sex
workers in the past who try to conceal their identity on social media but
Facebook still manages to suggest their “Johns” as friends.
~~~
digi59404
This isn’t true. I have Facebook on my phone and there’s no way to identify me
by my phone number. It’s unlisted on my profile and not public. Searching for
me by number or email does not work. I’ve check my Fb privacy settings quite
often and try to find workarounds.
------
ydb
This is nothing new. Influencing elections is a part of having elections --
this liberal idea that "bots" are somehow poisoning the electoral process is
beyond out of touch.
The TV you watch, whether it's CNN or FOX or MSNBC or CNBC has more of an
outsize effect on how you develop your personal beliefs than any of this
nonsense. The biggest thing to come out of America's Second Red Scare is that
people are more likely to listen to others when they spout propaganda that
they already believe.
To think it's the FSB or GRU is somehow responsible for a defect in the design
of elections in a democratic republic is laughable. If anything, the
"Russians" are doing what Siberia and their rough country taught them: make
the best of a bad situation.
------
fhkatari
I was forwarded Sacha Baron Cohen's facebook critique
([https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/22/sacha-
bar...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/22/sacha-baron-cohen-
facebook-propaganda)) by a friend, as an argument to outlaw facebook. I
brought up how Bush swiftboated Kerry and won the election. Media has always
been used as a political weapon, it seems. Is FB much worse?
------
RickJWagner
In somewhat-related news, a group of Washington Post reporters tweeted a party
photo labeled 'Merry Impeachmas'.
There is no impartial source of media today. Not traditional media, not social
media. You have to go out and talk to people around you to know what people
really think.
"If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed, if you do read it, you’re
misinformed." \- Denzel Washington
------
yters
How can we know anyone online is real?
------
dzhiurgis
Ironically, zuc's new photo looks like it's been generated:
[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10111007623865331&se...](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10111007623865331&set=a.743613136151&type=3&theater)
Catching faces from thispersondoesnotexist is easy - just poll the their site
every 1 second and collect all faces. Others are probably trickier but FB is
sophisticated enough.
My real question is how can one specify Z vector that generates a specific
(say myself's) face?
[http://podgorskiy.com/static/stylegan/stylegan.html#wMUUPtHj...](http://podgorskiy.com/static/stylegan/stylegan.html#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)
------
tabtab
Fake people reading and writing fake news on fake websites? If this keeps up,
we'll end up with a fake President. Don't give me negative points, for this is
a fake reply.
~~~
dilyevsky
The world has gone full Philip K Dick
~~~
saalweachter
I occasionally think about the end of The Man in the High Castle, when the
characters realize they are living in a fictional alternate history.
~~~
boring_twenties
WTF man? Not everyone has read everything already...
~~~
saalweachter
While I am fine with the social conventions that hold spoiling recent works as
anathema, or even older works within limited contexts (for instance, /r/WoT
tries to allow readers to talk about the early books without instantly being
spoiled for the later ones), the absurd demands people make to not "spoil" any
book or movie people still read or watch recreationally -- and not just as a
homework assignment -- is _harmful_.
The metaphors, the concepts, the philosophies expressed in books, even trashy
1960's SF, are _important_. They are tools we can use to explain, to convince,
to argue, to communicate.
Demanding that we never speak aloud in any public place the words from any
work of art more recent than Black Beauty (is that too recent? Is it OK to at
least reference the end of Romeo and Juliet?) is demanding that we weaken
ourselves, like Harrison Bergeron in Kurt Vonnegut's short story of the same
name, and only communicate at the level of the least well-read individual in
any society. If books are not going to contribute to discourse, if we cannot
tell other people of what we read, we might as well burn them all, as in Ray
Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.
And at the end of the day, the only thing being protected by fervent cries of
"spoilers!" "spoilers!" are the barest, sparsest facts of the story: if
finding out the ending of a story is the only reason to read it, you were
probably done a favor by having it "spoiled". Journey before destination.
~~~
boring_twenties
While I appreciate your thorough and heartfelt response here, what I don't
understand is how your comment would have been diminished in any way without
the explicit spoiler?
Anyone who has already read the book would get it anyway. Everyone else
wouldn't be any worse off, since that simple summary doesn't help understand
the nuance of why it reminded of the ending. The only thing it does is spoil
the ending.
> If finding out the ending of a story is the only reason to read it, you were
> probably done a favor by having it "spoiled"
False dichotomy much? It's not the only reason, but it's certainly a decent
sized factor in the enjoyment of a novel. I certainly don't feel like you did
me any favors.
------
fakegalitarian
Reminder that the Russians primarily targeted black americans to agitate us
over police brutality, and that every single media piece that gives more than
3 example ads without showing a single one target black americans is, with
high probability (a statistician can formalize this), peddling an agenda.
"White working class voters" were never the primary target and they targeted
them _less_ as the campaign went on.
Primary source: [https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-
content/social-m...](https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-
content/social-media-advertisements.htm)
------
xrd
Here are the assumptions I have about what's happening here.
But, the real question I have is: are these thoughts which have been
influenced/crafted unbeknownst to me?
Pro tip where I attempt to bring awareness to my thoughts: look for the
keyword "automatically" in my statements below.
1\. These are pro-Trump sites. Perhaps the author filtered only these groups
for their results? The takeaway is that I automatically think pro-Trump groups
must be creating these fake accounts. Then, I automatically think "Russians!"
2\. There is another article from the NYTimes on Hacker News right now
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21847051](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21847051)).
It mentions a pro Falun Gong group behind it. I automatically think this must
be a Chinese state funded group doing it to discredit Falun Gong.
This is an amazing bit of research and write up. And, could it be that not
everything is what it seems here?
I recently heard a discussion from Ben Freeman on Terry Gross' Fresh Air
([https://www.npr.org/2019/11/21/781579229/ukrainian-
oligarchs...](https://www.npr.org/2019/11/21/781579229/ukrainian-oligarchs-
and-the-influence-of-foreign-money-on-american-politics)). Mr. Freeman is the
director of the "Foreign Influence Transparency Initiative at the Center for
International Policy." His point was that Russia is actually pretty bad at
interference, which is why we know about it. Everyone does it, and the Saudi's
and Israel and Japan do it with much more class and craft. It makes me wonder
whether these fake accounts come from who we think they do.
------
kevin_thibedeau
A FB ToS violation is not a violation of the law. Nothing prevents people from
having multiple accounts to shill with. The only thing "wrong" is how much
people will trust what they read on the internet from random people they don't
know.
~~~
rexpop
What, then, ought people to trust?
------
Mugwort
Is Hacker News fake news? Many times people post things that would make a real
expert roll their eyes. There are some smart people here but also lots of
inaccurate information.
------
Mugwort
Is anyone out there simply unaware of the "fake news" phenomenon. Are we so
inured that we cannot differentiate BS from the real thing and need to be
protected? I don't think so. Everyone KNOWS. People aren't that stupid. Why
wasn't lying us into the Iraq war considered fake news?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
“8th” – a gentle introduction to a modern Forth - amock
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/5479
======
bandrami
If it has automatic memory management I can't really call it "forth" in any
real sense; the dictionary-as-heap model (and the compiler threading that
allows) is what makes forth forth, not the particulars of the syntax.
~~~
amock
It does seem like a strange choice to pick the forth syntax if it's going to
be so different. I don't think there are a lot of forth programmers waiting
around for something like this to switch to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Roland McGrath bows out as glibc maintainer - signa11
https://lwn.net/Articles/727383/
======
jlg23
Thank you & I hope I'll be able to show such a positive attitude after 30
years on a FOSS-project. I'll print out and pin the resignation later above my
desk as a brutal reminder what I failed to do so far: friendly exits from
projects I put my heart into before.
------
spraak
> This summer marks 30 years since I began writing the GNU C Library. (That's
> two thirds of my lifespan so far.)
So he started writing it at age 15?
~~~
mrgordon
Yeah Roland is the man!
------
smhenderson
Thank you Roland for all your years of service. Maintenance of one of the most
important FOSS projects around must not have been easy. Cheers!
------
nullspace
Wow! I wonder about the kind of withdrawal issues that someone with such a
tenure would go through. For me, the first six months after I handed over and
left a codebase I owned was tough! And that was after only 4 years of work in
it, and Roland has done glibc for 30 years.
~~~
DonHopkins
It's habit forming but not addictive. I hope "pre-roll'n Roland" has some big
well earned recreational (and not medical) tasks queued up on his tray to do
next. He's earned it! ;)
------
digi_owl
Maybe i am a bit confused, but i have the impression that Drepper was in
control of glibc development for much of the 90s, and these days there is a
committee of sorts in charge.
------
watersb
Could not have gotten this far without you. Fantastic. Thank you.
------
m-j-fox
Classy. I've seen too many situations where the old man wouldn't die or
relinquish power but also wouldn't contribute anything but obstruction. There
should really be more of a mentorship model rather than the assumption that a
director will be around indefinitely.
~~~
burntrelish1273
That's the Dianne Feinstein-model of FOSS leadership. ;)
~~~
PhantomGremlin
That's funny. I thought it was the Nancy Pelosi model.
~~~
DonHopkins
I thought it was the Saint IGNUcius model! ;)
------
fooker
Awesome guy! Met him during my tenure at Google when he worked on Chrome.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Managing Async Dependencies with JavaScript (2017) - jhabdas
https://habd.as/post/managing-async-dependencies-javascript/
======
jdauriemma
Nice site design
~~~
jhabdas
Thank you. It's After Dark. [https://after-dark.habd.as](https://after-
dark.habd.as)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Survivor Bias. Why don't we focus more on startups that fail? - econner
I think this comes from a book somewhere or other but it was paraphrased to me:<p>During WWII planes that made it back from combat missions were analyzed to be reinforced. They found that these planes were shot in the wings and tail so they reinforced those areas. Really though, planes shot in the fuselage were much less likely to make it back so they should have reinforced that area. They were biased by trying to avoid the problems the survivors faced.<p>So my question is: why don't we try to learn more from startups that fail instead of focusing so much on the successes?
======
antiterra
The National WWII Museum implies that your WWII anecdote is the inverse of
what actually happened. That is, that returning planes were shot in the
fuselage, and a WWII statistician recognized survivorship bias in proposed
reinforcement and concluded that the areas not hit on survivors should be
reinforced.
See: [http://www.nww2m.com/2012/11/scitech-tuesday-abraham-wald-
se...](http://www.nww2m.com/2012/11/scitech-tuesday-abraham-wald-seeing-the-
unseen/)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Wald>
~~~
econner
Ah. Smart statistician. Thanks for that.
------
pg
We pay a lot of attention to the causes of failure. Much of what I've written
about startups is about pitfalls and mistakes. I don't name names, but I don't
think you need to.
~~~
blargh123
hi pg.
i don't know you, this website, or anything about anything, but i felt a duty
to inform a fellow internet user that someone has commissioned others to
compile your comments for this site. here's the link:
[https://www.elance.com/j/scrape-gather-all-comments-
person-o...](https://www.elance.com/j/scrape-gather-all-comments-person-on-
discussion-
board/35373787/?backurl=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZWxhbmNlLmNvbS9yL2pvYnMvY2F0LWFkbWluLXN1cHBvcnQ=)
it could be totally fine, or creepy, or it could just be you wanting your
stuff compiled, but i felt it my duty to tell a fellow internet user that
someone wanted their stuff compiled.
if i'm breaking any sort of rules, again, sorry, i don't know anything about
this site or how to navigate it; i also obviously don't know how to pm.
cheers.
~~~
pg
[http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/comments&q=by%3Ap...](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/comments&q=by%3Apg&sortby=create_ts+desc)
------
IceCreamYou
There are an infinite number of ways to fail and only a few ways to succeed.
If you learn from failure, you have learned one way that doesn't work out of
an infinite number. If you learn from success, you have learned one way that
does work out of a small finite number.
Obviously there are some ways to fail that are much more common than others,
but those tend to be based on lack of action, e.g. failure to actually ask
users if they want to use your product before building it. There is plenty of
material on those common sorts of failures, it's just usually phrased
constructively, i.e. "how to do SEO" rather than "we died because we posted
duplicate content on every page of our site."
~~~
baddox
The hard part is pinning down the _cause_ of a successful startup. Most people
just point at highly visible things, and make a claim like "StartupX is
successful because the founders worked extremely hard, the office culture was
well-developed, and there were lots of team building activities." The problem
is that this ignores the 5,000 other startups that did all those same things,
but failed. Perhaps it turns out that StartupX really succeeded because they
had a sales guy with lots of good connections, etc.
~~~
sek
You have a good point here.
More prevalent in the financial industry, you have a lot of successful
retirees who hold talks and write books what kind of tea they drank.
Statistically nobody beats the market, so these people had very likely just
luck.
Causation is not relation, everybody knows that. But it is damn hard to figure
out what and often the people themselves are biased. I would say a big
percentage of tips you get this way are totally useless, but to figure out
which one of them depends on your judgement.
------
pbiggar
I wrote up my failed YC startup here: [http://blog.paulbiggar.com/archive/why-
we-shut-newstilt-down...](http://blog.paulbiggar.com/archive/why-we-shut-
newstilt-down/)
It was definitely a good move. More people read that blog post than heard
about my startup in the first place, it got covered in loads of tech press,
and people still ask me about it 2 years later. I get an email every few
months thanking me for writing it, and I'm asked to do the occasional
interview about it too.
It also allowed me to introspect a lot of what went wrong, and what I could
have done better. One of the major reasons my current startup
(<https://circleci.com>) is doing well is what I learned from the
deconstruction.
~~~
thomson
Just wanted to echo common sentiments that your blog post was a very well-
written and yet personal treatise on how and why startups fail.
Another good pair of posts comes from Chad Etzel (previously Notifo):
<http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/05/02/startups-are-hard.html>
[http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/09/08/fouling-out-moving-
on.h...](http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/09/08/fouling-out-moving-on.html)
------
edanm
When I joined the startup scene 3 years ago, I mostly saw success stories. Now
that I've been through my own failed startup, I see many failure stories.
I believe that two things have changed:
1\. The field is maturing, so more people are talking about failures, the
downsides of entrepreneurship, etc.
2\. I'm growing as a business person, so I'm reading a larger variety of
things, not just stories that reinforce my beliefs.
So it's possible that, like me, you're so focused on reading positive startup-
reinforcing articles, that you're missing out on some of the articles which
focus more on the failures and things to avoid.
Oh, and definitely read pg's articles - they have a lot of truth in them,
compiled from one smart person who's seen many startups both fail and succeed,
and who is specifically looking for the reasons and patterns behind it all.
------
andrewcross
I think there's two major components to this:
1) Writing about your failures sucks. My first startup got to 6 figure revenue
within 18 months, but we really struggled to grow past that. I could write a
full debrief on why we failed, but it's pretty low on my "things I want to do"
list. I'd imagine quite a few founders with failed startups would have a
similar viewpoint.
2) A lot of failures just aren't that exciting. I'd venture a guess that most
startups fail because they gradually lose their passion for the problem. When
you aren't growing for an extended time, it wears on you. A lot. The only way
you survive is if you're obsessed with the problem you're solving. Those that
aren't would just slowly fade out.
------
lsiebert
I'd note that this bias extends beyond startups; see
[http://jeps.efpsa.org/blog/2012/06/01/falsification-of-
previ...](http://jeps.efpsa.org/blog/2012/06/01/falsification-of-previous-
results/)
studies of failures don't just reveal things that increase failure rates, they
prevent false positives.
Imagine X is some innovation that is being talked up because recently several
companies had or used X to succeed.
If 19 out of 20 times X makes a startup more likely to fail or if X has no
meaningful effect on failure rates at all, or if X only helps in situation Y,
but you only hear about the times that people succeeded with X, you might try
to use X, to no benefit or to actual harm to your business.
If startup success is rare, then trying to generalize only from instances of
it may lead to errors. We have more instances of failures, therefore we can
learn a great deal about commonalities in startups that fail. Of course the
smart thing to do is to make a hypothesis about X, and compare startups with X
that failed and succeeded to startups without X that failed and succeeded to
see if there is a significant effect on the rate.
I'd note that errors of judgment about what causes startups to do well or fail
get fed into the investor system. If X is useless or harmful, but your
investors think it's a good idea, you will have problems.
------
plowguy
I think the answer is pretty simple: failed startps are insular. Founders who
are able to discuss them won't, either because they've moved on, or because
it's painful, embarrassing etc. Discussing failures would be more useful, I
imagine, than reading about successes. If such a startup graveyard existed,
I'd probably visit quite often.
------
pyre
\- The failure may be a sore-spot for those involved, so they might not want
to do a postmortem.
\- Unless insiders are willing to speak up, there may not be too much to be
said from the outside.
\- A lot of start-ups that fail are uninteresting. What can be said about the
tons of TODO web apps that have probably been created and failed.
\- Those involved may be reluctant to speak out because they view the lessons-
learned as their leg up on the competition when they get into their next
start-up.
I agree that there are a lot of interesting things to discuss regarding failed
start-ups, though.
------
spartango
I think on a person-to-person basis there's a lot of talk about startups and
companies that have failed. People who have worked with startups that ended up
going under have no discomfort talking about the causes and errors, which
subsequent companies learn from. I think the experiences and lessons are
passed on fairly well, it's just that this exchange happens out of the public
spotlight.
------
jacques_chester
For those interested in a scholarly study of common failure modes for various
fashionable Grand Business Strategies of the 80s and 90s, read _Billion Dollar
Lessons_ by Carroll and Mui: [http://www.amazon.com/Billion-Dollar-Lessons-
Inexcusable-Bus...](http://www.amazon.com/Billion-Dollar-Lessons-Inexcusable-
Business/dp/1591842891)
------
dbyrd
Good point. I was thinking that a lot of the characteristics of great
entrepreneurs are really just things that make them more volatile. So for a %
of the people they will be more successful, but for another percentage of the
people with the same characteristics they will be a lot less successful.
I have no evidence to back this up, just food for thought.
------
shawn-butler
I think another reason is that no one likes to acknowledge the uncomfortable
truth that a significant factor in the success or failure of tech startups is
pure chance. It's the same reason so much of recorded history is false. It
seems to be hardwired into human experience to prefer a good narrative over
truth.
------
Zev
Once you've failed (and maybe, given your post-mortem), what else is there to
do? You move on to working on something else.
To extend your analogy: during WW2, they didn't study the _same_ plane every
time a plane was shot down. They studied a the one that was hit, and moved on
to the next one after that.
~~~
dfc
Your missing the point of the analogy. The planes that should have been
studied were the same planes that never RTB'ed so they could not be studied.
------
daa
There is a notable exception: <http://thefailcon.com/> "FailCon is a one-day
conference for technology entrepreneurs, investors, developers and designers
to study their own and others' failures and prepare for success."
------
smirksirlot
Availability heuristic? Successful startups survive, do well and people hear
about them more (news coverage, PR, using their products etc.) It is hard to
discuss a company when you've never even heard of them.
------
RyJones
In my case, NDAs, mostly. Plus, as a savvy recruiter once told me, the Bay
Area is big, but the Valley is small.
------
jborden13
Agreed. Probably an equal number of lessons to learn from the failures as from
those still slogging it out.
------
hayksaakian
Failure is bad for SEO. Unless the failure is massive.
Many startups fail for uninteresting reasons.
~~~
TheOnly92
Well it is my opinion that failure stories are far better than successful
stories because success is difficult to replicate but failures can be easily
avoided.
------
rjzzleep
same reason we like heroes so much, even though most heroes didn't do things
on their own.
------
bravoyankee
I agree. It makes for a lot more interesting story too.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What do I need to learn to manage a VPS? - Jonas_Ty
I'm on a shared hosting with 20 websites and respective emails.<p>I'd like to be able to go the VPS route and manage it without a control panel.<p>I know you need to access it through Putty, but I don't know what commands I need to move all my websites and do things like the pros.
======
rahimnathwani
[https://www.udacity.com/course/configuring-linux-web-
servers...](https://www.udacity.com/course/configuring-linux-web-servers--
ud299)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Core Animation Support Coming to Mac Chrome - boundlessdreamz
http://www.manu-j.com/blog/core-animation-support-coming-to-mac-chrome/483/
======
ZeroGravitas
Maybe this is like admitting I logged into ReadWriteWeb instead of Facebook,
but I was genuinely confused by this post because I assumed at first that it
was written by Mike Pinkerton.
I think I subconsciously mistook the tweet and username as blog title and
byline.
~~~
whyenot
The tweet is in a much larger typeface than the actual title. It seems to me
like a bad design choice -- and I'm not just saying that because I made the
same mistake you did :)
~~~
boundlessdreamz
I have now put all the text below the image. Interesting usability lesson
here. :)
~~~
DTrejo
_has tweeted that, he is_
That comma isn't needed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
2010 Nobel Prize for Peace Awarded to Liu Xiaobo - razin
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2010/
======
alexdong
> Of course, equating the Nobel committee with the Norwegian government is as
> wrong as equating a newspaper editor printing Islamic cartoons with it, then
> torching down an embassy.
This is very western way of seeing thing, which I happen to agree. The current
Chinese education system has been trying very hard, and quite successfully, to
mix these concepts together: country, geographic land, government, ethnic
group in order to make the current political system legitimate by "natural".
Now, if you ask me what will happen to liuxiaobo, I'd bet 80%+ on that he will
stay in prison. Based on my observation of the a few years after the
tian'an'men massacre and the economic position China is having right now, I
don't expect Chinese government to back off on this particular issue under
external pressures. What'll happen is the news will soon move on to the next
interesting topic and what's going on with China will continue on its path.
As a Chinese, I'm quite impressed by the fact that the Nobel committee has the
gut to take the risk and stick with their own decision. I'd, humbly, call this
the triumph of humanity since it values human rights and the pursue of
personal freedom over pure economic considerations.
~~~
_delirium
_This is very western way of seeing thing, which I happen to agree. The
current Chinese education system has been trying very hard, and quite
successfully, to mix these concepts together: country, geographic land,
government, ethnic group in order to make the current political system
legitimate by "natural"._
I agree as far as the current situation, but I don't think it's anything
inherent about western or non-western ways of thinking, just a result of where
Europe and China happen to be currently in their politics. Mixing
country/land/government/ethnic-group into a "natural" whole used to be a very
European idea as well, and was probably the dominant view of nation-states
throughout the period of European ethnic nationalism in the 18th and 19th
centuries.
I think that today it's unpopular in Europe partly because it's so associated
with 20th-century fascism: no mainstream German today would want to promote
the idea that the German people, the German land, the German state, and German
culture are some sort of natural, unified whole, because that sort of rhetoric
marks you out as a member of the far-right.
------
sbt
I don't think the Nobel committee has ever given out the price without having
been slammed by someone or some government. The price is political so it's no
wonder. Apparently, Chinese foreign affairs has already stated that this may
damage Chinese-Norwegian relations (sorry no citation). Of course, equating
the Nobel committee with the Norwegian government is as wrong as equating a
newspaper editor printing Islamic cartoons with it, then torching down an
embassy.
~~~
sasvari
here's your citation:
Chinese Foreign Ministry: _The Nobel Committee awarding Liu this prize, which
runs contrary to the principle of the Peace Prize, will bring damage to two-
way relations._
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11499931>
~~~
est
here is the official citation
<http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/chn/gxh/tyb/fyrbt/t759532.htm>
------
russellallen
Congratulations to Mr Liu - his imprisonment remains a sign of how far China
has yet to travel.
~~~
razin
Apparently, China blacked out both CNN and BBC when the announcement was made
(<http://twitter.com/joCNN/status/26731788647>).
~~~
nkassis
I wonder what a google search would return.
~~~
mbreese
google.com.hk has the prize winner listed as the third link with the terms
"nobel peace prize 2010".
Google.cn still redirects to google.com.hk for searching.
[http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-
CN&source=hp&b...](http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-
CN&source=hp&biw=1824&bih=1293&q=nobel+peace+prize+2010&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CzfX-
GDuvTMjOApSEygTtsoWHBQAAAKoEBU_QIu0a)
~~~
jph98
Baidu also has search results relating to the subject:
[http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=Liu+Xiaobo&n=2](http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=Liu+Xiaobo&n=2)
------
sasvari
It will be interesting to see whether China is going to follow through with
their threat to downgrade their political relations with Norway now.
~~~
superos
This is not an award given by the Norwegian government. It is given by the
independent Norwegian Nobel Committee. If the means anything for the chinese I
don't know, but it is a huge difference with regard to the two countries
political relations.
~~~
Hagelin
Yes, an independent committee whose "five members are appointed by the
Norwegian Parliament and roughly represent the political makeup of that body”.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Nobel_Committee>
~~~
mbreese
That may be true, but they aren't speaking with the authority of the state.
There is a difference.
~~~
Hagelin
Sure, I don’t disagree, I just wanted to provide some nuance to the word
”independent”.
------
liuliu
It should be marked as the most "unpeaceful" night of Nobel Peace Prize. As to
date, More than ten people in Beijing and Shanghai who voluntarily celebrated
the event were taken into custody.
------
0_o
Two most well-known Chinese liberals share the same name -Xiaobo, what a
coincidence! The other one is Wang Xiaobo, whose name is much more influencial
in China.
------
thomasfl
Now you've done it! Hacker News probably just got blocked out of The Great
Firewall of China[tm).
All Norwegian sites will probably blocked out too.
BTW. I live in Norway.
~~~
garply
No, it did not.
~~~
thomasfl
Great.
------
ars
Is the linked website real? "Photo: Wikidemia Commons" ??
This link may be more informative:
[http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dbvIvqx2eu3bnMMiDfa9ho_...](http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dbvIvqx2eu3bnMMiDfa9ho_irbCyM)
China is going to be really mad! I hope they don't harm him for this. I guess
the world is watching - now, but later? And secret less noticeable stuff?
Anyone know if he agreed to accept the prize?
~~~
user24
I don't think one spleling mistake is enough to condemn a site as fake.
It's clearly legitimate; highest rank on google for "nobel", listed on
wikipedia as the official site, etc etc etc
~~~
ars
It wasn't the spelling mistake, it was the complete lack of content. I would
expect more of a writeup of why they they are giving it to him, etc, etc. The
spelling mistake really caught my eye though - it just seemed unprofessional.
It's just not what you expect when you hear "Nobel prize".
~~~
dagw
The peace prize is awarded by the Norwegian Nobel Committee, and not the
'normal' Nobel Institute. The official site for the peace prize is at
nobelpeaceprize.org and the official announcement is at
<http://nobelpeaceprize.org/en_GB/announce-2010/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Deconstructing Functional Programming [video] - newgame
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/functional-pros-cons?utm_source=infoq&utm_medium=QCon_EarlyAccessVideos&utm_campaign=QConSanFrancisco2013
======
Peaker
Gilad Bracha sounds like he hasn't used a typed language long enough to stop
struggling with basic type errors.
As such, it is of a position of extreme ignorance that he speaks of the
uselessness of type checking and inference.
Claiming Smalltalk has the best closure syntax shows he doesn't understand
call by need. Haskell defines easier to use control structures than Smalltalk.
Claiming patterns don't give exhaustiveness, ignoring their extra safety shows
Gilad doesn't understand patterns.
Claiming monads are about particular instances having the two monad methods,
when they are about abstracting over the interface, shows Gilad doesn't
understand monads.
Claiming single argument functions have the inflexibility of identical Lego
bricks shows he doesn't understand the richness of function types and
combinators.
In short, Gilad sounds to me very much like a charlatan who'd benefit greatly
from going through lyah.
------
mafribe
I found Bracha's talk poor. That guy really has a chip on his shoulder vis-a-
vis functional programming. A lot of things he said were not well though out.
Here are some examples.
\- He claimed that tail recursion could be seen as the essence of functional
programming. How so?
\- He complained that tail recursion has problems with debugging. Well, tail
recursion throws away stack information, so it should not be a surprise. You
don't get better debug information in while loops either. And you can use a
'debug' flag to get the compiler to retain the debug information (at the cost
of slower execution).
\- His remarks about Hindley-Milner being bad are bizarre. Exactly what is his
argument?
\- His claims about pattern-matching are equally poor. Yes, pattern matching
does some dynamic checks, and in some sense are similar to reflection. But the
types constrain what you can do, removing large classes of error
possibilities. Moreover, typing of patterns can give you compile-time
exhaustiveness checks. Pattern matching has various other advantages, such as
locally scoped names for subcomponents of the thing you are matching against,
and compile-time optimisation of matching strategies.
\- He also repeatedly made fun of Milner's "well-typed programs do not go
wrong", implying that Milner's statement is obviously non-sense. Had he
studied Milner's "A Theory of Type Polymorphism in Programming" where the
statement originated, Bracha would have learned that Milner uses a particular
understanding of going wrong which does _not_ mean complete absence of any
errors whatsoever. Milner uses a peculiar meaning, and in Milner's sense,
well-typed programs do indeed not go wrong.
\- He also criticises patterns for not being first-class citizens. Of course
first-class patterns are nice, and some languages have them, but there are
performance implications of having them.
\- His critique of monads was focussed on something superficial, how they are
named in Haskell. But the interesting question is: are monads a good
abstraction to provide in a programming language? Most languages provide
special cases: C has the state monad, Java has the state and exception monad
etc. There are good reasons for that.
\- And yes, normal programmers could have invented monads. But they didn't.
Maybe there's a message in this failure?
~~~
the_af
Indeed, I found his talk pretty poor as well. A lot of it comes down to not
wanting to learn new terminology, and forgetting that a lot of "common sense"
terminology from, say, Java, is also learned. I don't get more insight from
"FlatMappable" than from "Monad"; in both cases I must learn about them first,
and neither is intuitive without prior knowledge.
It is instructive to read Bracha's blog too, mostly for the comments where
readers refute a lot of what he claims.
His argument against Hindley-Milner seems to be that "he hates it", and that
type errors are sometimes hard to understand. It is true IMO that they are
hard to understand (even though, like everything in programming, you get
better with practice), but what is the alternative? Debugging runtime errors
while on production?
He also presents Scala as a successful marriage between OOP and FP, but in
reality this is a controversial issue. Some of the resistance to Scala
(witnessed here in Hacker News, for example) is due to it trying to be a jack
of all trades and master of none. Scala's syntax is arguably _harder to read_
than that of other FP languages.
Some of his "funny" remarks sounded mean-spirited to me. Nobody in his right
mind claims that FP invented map or reduce, for example.
The only point of his talk I somewhat agree with is that language evangelists
are annoying. Oh, and that "return" is poorly named.
~~~
newgame
> His argument against Hindley-Milner seems to be that "he hates it", and that
> type errors are sometimes hard to understand. It is true IMO that they are
> hard to understand (even though, like everything in programming, you get
> better with practice), but what is the alternative? Debugging runtime errors
> while on production?
He pointed out that a more nominal type system is a solution. Because when you
give meaningful names to your types the error messages will become clearer and
not full of long, inferred types that reveal potentially confusing or
unimportant implementation details.
~~~
mafribe
Most programming languages with Damas-Hindley-Milner do not prevent you from
using explicit type annotation, and inventing semantically meaningful type
names.
More importantly, I think the reason why error messages are sparse and not
meaningful in languages with Damas-Hindley-Milner is that nobody bothered to
improve the situation. And the reason why nobody botheres is that it's simply
not a problem in practise. Any even moderately experienced programmer can
easily detect and fix typing errors as they are given in Haskell, Ocaml, F#,
Scala etc.
------
taeric
First, thanks for all involved in getting this posted!
I'm somewhat curious on why the industry has such an aversion to simulating
things in our mind. Especially when this seems to be one of the arguments
employed against monads in this speech. That it basically couches something
known in an odd name that is not known. Isn't this just stating that it is bad
_because_ it confuses the simulator that is the reader?
That said, the live coding aspect is something that I am just now learning
from lisp with emacs. Being able to evaluate a function inline is rather nice.
It is somewhat sad, as I still wish I could get a better vote in for literate
programming. (Betraying my appeal to the human factor moreso than the
mechanical one.)
~~~
catnaroek
Monads have nothing to do with simulating anything. They are just a commonly
recurring pattern of computational contexts (more precisely, functors) that
also provide two basic operations:
1\. entering the context (pure :: a -> m a) 2\. collapsing nested contexts
into one (join :: m (m a) -> m a)
Together with some coherence laws that ensure that these operations do
exactly, no more or less, than entering the context and collapsing nested
instances of it.
~~~
taeric
Did you watch the video? I'm not referring to monads simulating something. I'm
referring to the observation that when reading code you are simulating its
execution. My understanding of the video's complaint against monads is that
the signature of monads is actually quite simple and well understood in
different contexts _by different names._
The video goes on to display an environment where you do not have to simulate
the code in your head.
This progression seems somewhat interesting to me. As does the desire to not
have to simulate code in your head.
~~~
asdasf
>This progression seems somewhat interesting to me. As does the desire to not
have to simulate code in your head.
But none of that has anything to do with monads.
~~~
taeric
Ok... I think I'm getting trolled at this point.
I am taking issue with the video's critique of monads. Wherein it is claimed
that monads manage to take a common and understandable behavior and make it
laughably impossible to explain to people by giving it a weird name.
Essentially, the problem with monads is one of it being difficult to
"simulate" under the name "monad" for many individuals.
This part, I actually feel makes sense and resonates well. Simply follow the
progression in the video and see how "FlatMappable" becomes less and less
intuitive as it is given worse and worse names.
The part that is interesting to me, is how this then progresses into a point
on how programmers should not have to simulate the code in their head. Now, I
realize there is a big difference between "should not have to" and "is
difficult to intuitively do so". Still seems an odd progression, though.
~~~
asdasf
>Ok... I think I'm getting trolled at this point.
If you don't want to discuss something, then don't post. You are not making
any sense, and calling people trolls does not help at all.
~~~
taeric
I should have put a smiley on that, then. While feeling trolled, I highly
suspect this is just a rather amusing case of poor communication.
At no point was I trying to describe or discuss monads. That is something a
response to me thought I was trying to do. When referring to "simulating" a
system, I was referring to where the video refers to the process of reading
"dead code" in a text editor. There is a large rant on monads _in the video_
where the argument appears to be that the problem is strictly with the name.
The reason given that it takes something understood, and hides it behind non-
obvious names. I extrapolated this to be that it makes the program and the
idea "hard to simulate" for the coder reading the code.
------
bunderbunder
Great talk. Particularly the bit on the value of naming things - I rather wish
he'd flogged that a bit harder.
As time goes on I'm finding it more and more frustrating to try and maintain
code that relies entirely on anonymous and structural constructs without any
nominal component. Yes, I do feel super-powerful when I can bang out a bunch
of code really quickly by just stacking a bunch of more-or-less purely
mathematical constructs on top of each other. . . but as the story of the Mars
Climate Orbiter should teach us rather poignantly, when you're trying to
engineer larger, more complex systems it turns out that meta-information is
actually really useful stuff.
~~~
the_af
I'd say static typing and purity as advocated by FP are some of the tools one
wants when trying to engineer larger, more complex systems.
I wasn't familiar with the Mars Climate Orbiter case, but a cursory reading
suggests one of the causes was a type error (confusing newtons with pound-
force).
~~~
bunderbunder
As advocated widely in the FP blogosphere. . . not necessarily as commonly
practiced in FP programming culture, or supported by many FP languages.
For example, I strongly prefer F# to its cousin OCaml largely because F# uses
nominal typing and OCaml uses structural typing. I've also got some misgivings
about being overly reliant on type inference. Both structural typing and
advanced type inference are admittedly incredibly convenient. What worries me
is that they also seem to be incredibly convenient as ways to obfuscate the
programmer's intent w/r/t types and their semantics.
~~~
the_af
I'd say not so much as advocated by the blogosphere (which can be annoying, as
fans of almost anything often are), but by the people actually designing and
using FP languages.
In any case, there is certainly valid criticism of FP, but Bracha's just isn't
it. My impression is that the guy -- as clever as he may be in other areas --
barely understands FP, and makes disparaging remarks about things he isn't
familiar with. Read his blog; every assertion he makes is shown to be
incorrect or misleading by people who do understand FP, like Tony Morris or
(very politely) Philip Wadler himself.
------
vitd
I'm just learning functional programming with Haskell, and it was great to
hear him explain that learning Haskell is really hard because of the
terminology. I feel a little (just a little) less stupid.
That said, he's a terrible presenter. His smarmy style was really off-putting,
and his motives a little sketchy. He spends a good portion of the talk
slamming just about every language in existence except for the two he works on
(Dart and Newspeak). It seemed very disingenuous and I don't need another
ranting nerd spouting venom about why something's not very good in that
holier-than-thou tone. I would have rather had a straightforward talk showing
the strengths and weaknesses than the bitter tone this had.
------
agentultra
This is a brilliant talk. It's getting far too easy to annoy the FP cult(ure).
As an aside, Scala is not unique in marrying a FP approach with an OO system.
CL has had CLOS, IMO one of the better implementations of "OO" outside of
Smalltalk, for much longer than Scala.
Definitely watch this!
~~~
catnaroek
Scala and Common Lisp are not particularly functional languages. Functional
programming in Scala is doable, although it takes a nontrivial amount of
effort (see: scalaz), and it is outright impractical in Common Lisp.
As an aside, CLOS multimethods resemble Haskell's multiparameter type classes
(except CLOS is dumber: you cannot provide any guarantee that the same types
will provide two or more common operations) more than they resemble anything
else also called "object-oriented".
~~~
agentultra
It is a common mistake I've heard from many CL newbies that believe CL is a
"FP" language.
The best descriptor I can find to date (of CL) is, "programmable programming
language," which allows it to encompass almost every desired feature one may
need; including many that fall under the FP umbrella which may be where the
confusion stems from.
However one of the opening points of the talk was that, "FP," is not a
rigorously defined term and is subject to interpretation. Which leads to
bikeshedding over language features and a lot of hype.
I believe it also leads to a lot of misplaced faith in the purity and
completeness of mathematics (it's almost as if the popular notion of FP is
being reborn as a modern _Principia Mathematica_ ).
CL obviously cannot be called an, "FP," language since its inception seems to
predate the popular notion of the term. Scala may suffer in the same way due
to its reliance on the JVM and the expression semantics it has carried over
from Java. However many of the features one tends to associate with modern FP
languages (though not all) are present in both languages.
As for your aside, how so? Perhaps a discussion we can have over email if
you're interested. You sound smart. However I don't understand your statement
and would like to know more.
~~~
catnaroek
> As for your aside, how so?
CLOS multimethods do not "belong" to an object or even to a class declaration.
Particular implementations of generic methods are declared globally, just like
Haskell type class instances. Although, as Peaker noted, type classes can
dispatch on any part of the type signature. It is impossible to make a CLOS
multimethod with signature:
(SomeClass a b) => String -> (a, b)
> Perhaps a discussion we can have over email if you're interested.
Sorry, I never check email. But I am almost always on Freenode. My nick is
pyon.
> You sound smart.
Not really. The regulars in #haskell - now _they_ are frigging smart.
~~~
agentultra
I think the comparison to type classes is specious and ends there. They look
similar but they tackle very different problems. You've actually explained why
rather well.
> Not really. The regulars in #haskell - now they are frigging smart.
Don't sell yourself short.
~~~
Peaker
It seems to me type classes have a superset of the features of CL
multimethods. Why not compare them?
------
jstratr
Interesting talk! Bracha has some good arguments against features that I
generally enjoy in programming languages, like Damas–Hindley–Milner type
inference and pattern matching.
Regarding Haskell: The points he makes against obtuse names based in category
theory are valid, but then again, Haskell has its roots in research
programming languages. Math-based terminology makes more sense for an academic
audience.
~~~
asdasf
>The points he makes against obtuse names based in category theory are valid
No, they aren't. When you have a class of "things" that doesn't have a name
most people are familiar with, you are left with two options. Either choose a
name people are familiar with, but which is wrong and misleading. Or choose
the correct name and people have to learn a name. Are we seriously so pathetic
as an industry that learning 3 new technical terms is a problem?
~~~
thinkpad20
To an extent, I think it's a valid criticism. There are two main problems with
the mathy names that many concepts in Haskell have.
The first is that they hide the meaning. For example, "Monoid" is a really
scary term, and explaining it further as "something with an identity and an
associative operation" really doesn't help much either. Calling it instead
"Addable" or "Joinable", and explaining it instead as "things with a default
'zero' version, and which have a way to add two of them together", while
perhaps not a perfect definition, would be much more intuitive for the
majority of people.
That brings me to the second problem I see, which is that the esoteric
terminology in Haskell creates a barrier between those who understand it, and
those who don't, and contribute to a sense of Haskell culture being
exclusionary and cult-like, which discourages cross-talk.
Criticizing Hindley-Milner, on the other hand, I'm confused by. It's such a
useful and powerful system. I suppose it can make compiler errors more obscure
at times, but you get used to reading them and they aren't so bad. Hindley-
Milner isn't just a type inferrence system; it's a typing system which allows
for the most general typing to always be used, so that the functions one
writes are as general as possible, encouraging modularity and code reuse.
~~~
Peaker
"Addable" will not actually be more informative than "Monoid", to someone who
doesn't know "Monoid".
"Monoid" will be very informative to anyone who learned it from mathematics.
A "Monoid" is a type which supports an associative operation (`m -> m -> m`)
and a neutral element (`m`) which forms its identity element.
"Addable" suggests it is an "addition". Does this mean it is commutative? For
the sake of preciseness, I'd hope so! (Monoids aren't commutative). Does this
mean it has a negation? No. So it is not "addition", why use a misleading name
for the sake of some false sense of "intuition"?
The actual explanation of what a Monoid is _precisely_ is so short and simple,
it makes no sense to try to appeal to inaccurate intuitions.
~~~
thinkpad20
That's a completely valid point of view. You're not wrong at all. I'm
guessing, though, that you had learned it before from mathematics. My point is
one of pragmatic, not theoretical, distinction. To those without a
mathematical background (most people are not going to learn monoid unless
they've studied abstract algebra), or who are less interested in mathematics
in general, an obscure term like that is discouraging. I know that the Haskell
community is heavily mathematical, and have little interest in "dumbing down"
the language for the sake of those who are put off by theory, but it is a real
tradeoff and one of the things that is likely to impede the introduction of
Haskell into the mainstream.
~~~
Peaker
I've learned Monoid in Haskell, not maths. It's just so simple and easy that
there's really no dumbing down necessary.
Monad is simple and hard, but Monoid is simple and easy.
~~~
thinkpad20
With respect to monoid, you're right. It's really quite simple when you get
down to it. I don't have any arguments there. In fact, the fact that monoids
are really so simple is kind of my point. In almost any other language, were
such a thing to exist, monoids would not be called monoids but by some
descriptive term which conveyed an intuitive sense of their meaning and use;
it would be the purview of the mathematically inclined to write articles
explaining how "actually, what we call the Joinable type class is known in
abstract algebra as a Monoid, and its use extends beyond just joining things;
for example..."
My point isn't really specifically about monoids; they're just an example of
what often goes on in Haskell, which is that people put theory before
practicality and mathematical (and hence often esoteric) definitions before
practical, real-world definitions. Like I've said a few times, this isn't
incorrect at all. Nor is it surprising given Haskell's origins, nor is it
without purpose since it deepens your understanding of what's going on in the
language. It's just a simple fact that the mathematical jargon is a turn-off
to newcomers and those who don't feel they want to be forced to learn math
while they're programming, or might think they're incapable of doing so.
As it turns out, I'm not one of those people; I love the mathematical side of
Haskell and I love that I've learned what a Monoid is and developed an
interest in type theory, category theory and all kinds of other things. But
not everyone is like that, and that's the point I'm making.
~~~
jejones3141
Well, yeah, but... the term "monoid" already exists, and has a definite
meaning. A different name might give people an intuition for it--but it will
be a wrong one that they'll have to unlearn later, like the infamous burrito
(not that you or anyone has suggested that monads be renamed burritos, I am
happy to say!).
------
namelezz
In his talk on currying, he mentioned replying on type system to not be a good
thing. Does anyone know the reasons behind his view?
~~~
latk
Currying can obfuscate what is applied to what. Consider in any ML language "a
b c d" – we can see that "a" is a function, but we have no idea of its arity.
Uncurried, it could be: "a(b, c, d)", "a(b, c)(d)", "a(b)(c, d)", "a(b)(c)(d)"
(oh, that's the curried form again). Especially when function definitions are
implied through pattern matching, it is hard to understand the contract of a
function at a glance.
As a reader of that code cannot easily understand whether the number and type
of arguments is correct, one has to rely on the type checker that everything
will work out.
However, this is more of a criticism of ML syntax than of currying – all
things are good in moderation.
~~~
thinkpad20
It's actually simpler in some ways, because we know that "a" must have arity
1. What we know is that "a" should be a function which takes a "b", that "a b"
should be a function which takes a "c", and "a b c" should take a "d".
As a practical consideration, this rarely if ever becomes an issue, and if it
does, the type checker will tell you straight away.
Type annotations can make clear what isn't intuitively clear with a function's
signature, and since the correctness of the type checker is rigorously proven,
I don't see anything particularly wrong with "relying" on the type checker.
~~~
latk
The argument that every function has arity 1 is technically true (this is the
whole point of currying) but is not useful when definitions like "let a b c =
..." suggest other semantics. It's possible you've had a difference experience
with this, but I tend to get confused when the semantic argument list isn't
delimited.
There is nothing wrong with relying on the type checker, except that it tends
to add cognitive overhead.
~~~
thinkpad20
In my experience, the more you use currying, the more intuitive it becomes
(surprise, surprise). In any case, you very quickly develop an understanding
that `let foo bar baz = qux` is just syntactic sugar for `let foo = \bar ->
\baz -> qux`. Of course, if you want to simulate higher-arity functions, you
could just use tuples. It's perfectly acceptable to write `let foo(bar, baz) =
qux`.
------
delinka
Can we get an [audio] indicator?
------
kaeluka
YES, I've been waiting for this! Thanks so much! :)
------
DanWaterworth
TL;DR FP hater talks about FP.
------
RyanZAG
I'm going to save these HN comments for 5 years time when the hype on
functional programming has died down a bit. Will be very humorous to read this
again then.
~~~
jonsen
No chance. The hype will recurse forever. Even on stackoverflow.
~~~
platz
Deploy the canaries!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google - cszerzo
http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320
======
npxcomplete
My interpretation is that the author is cheifly concerned with two points:
that biology impacts performance, and that dissenting views in Google are at
time met with hostility that is more political reflex than it is critical
countenance.
The first point should be obviously true, however we live in a time were
identity politics on the left tries to shout down any but the hard line
reaction to biological determinism. Both extremes are false and saying so
should not be controversial.
"There are differences between the sexes." This is a statement about
populations not individuals. It is also not a claim of causes only the current
state of affairs.
Of all the coworkers I've had in tech, women make up a strong majority of the
top 10. Yet of all the women I've known most weren't driven to excel to the
same level of most men I've known. Whether you blame culture or biology for
that sexism play A role, not the ONLY role in creating the gender discrepancy
we see in the fields of STEM and executive management.
~~~
biocomputation
First you say this:
>> for that sexism play A role, not the ONLY role in creating the gender
discrepancy
Then you say this:
>> Yet of all the women I've known most weren't driven to excel to the same
level of most men I've known.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that I'm going to assume that it
wasn't your intention to make a disturbingly sexist remark in a discussion
about sexism.
You can replace women with African-American, and what you wrote sounds an
awful lot like the racist drivel that came out of the South for 200 years. If
anything, the author of the memo's attempts to argue that there is some
biological basis for discrimination only serve to weaken his position.
Furthermore, this 'biological differences basis' for discrimination eventually
leads us to eugenics if taken to its illogical extreme. And yes, people have
taken it that far in the not so recent past.
In the cases where what you wrote is even partially true, that some women
(appear on the surface) to be less ambitious and less driven than men, did you
ever stop to ask yourself why?
I've worked in tech my entire career, and I've witnessed appalling sexism. I
have watched with my own eyes while women suffered humiliations like being
told things like "no one invites you to meetings because you can't keep
anything secret". Then there are things like code reviews. At work we recently
had to institute a 'no abusive code review' policy because a small cadre of
the men were using the code review process to hammer several of the few female
engineers we've managed to somehow convince to come work for us. Like most
places, our workplace policies are required largely due to behavior that was
originated by men.
It seems like it's awfully easy to forget that women are half our species! How
can anyone in their right mind think that sexism, unconscious or otherwise, is
okay? How can anyone think that it's because 'women are less driven to
succeed'? How can anyone think this when half their DNA comes from a man and
the other half from a woman?
As a gay man (a gender/sexual minority), I can actually relate to how awful it
feels to be treated like a second class citizen simply because of something
that I do not feel like I can change (my sexual orientation). I'm not sure how
much money it has cost me, but at the very least it has cost me the difference
in filing single vs. filing jointly for the first 17 years of my marriage.
Women pay similar costs when they're paid less over the course of their
career, and/or when they're denied promotions for 'being ambitious'.
The attitude that underlies your comment -that you could actually believe that
what you wrote is true and somehow justifies unequal treatment- is utterly,
totally, and exactly why we need the programs the author of the now infamous
memo argues against.
~~~
Zarath
At the risk of sounding sexist, I will say that conflating race and sex as
being roughly the same level of difference is a little bit intellectually
dishonest. I'm not going to sit here and argue about what those differences
are, but sex hormones most certainly affect behavior and emotions far more
than skin pigments.
I also appreciate you sharing your story, but I personally find it a bit
uncomfortable that these sorts of posts need to be qualified ("As a gay
man..."). While I understand you were trying to support the point you were
making, this sort of thing feeds into the notion that some opinions occupy a
privileged position within our society, which feeds such "screeds" as this.
It's almost hypocritical in a way, because I imagine that the anger and
"otherness" that oppressed or minority groups feel is not unlike what the
author of such a rant is feeling. Basically when it comes to cultural
discourse, you're wrong, evil, the enemy, or ignored.
~~~
DanBC
> because I imagine that the anger and "otherness" that oppressed or minority
> groups feel is not unlike what the author of such a rant is feeling.
No one is going to kill OP for his opinion, or try to rape his opinion out of
him, which is something that still happens to gay people.
~~~
Zarath
Fair point. Job loss is non-trivial, albeit nowhere near as bad as rape or
murder.
------
ankushnarula
A 2011 Norwegian documentary series had an episode called "The Gender
Paradox"[1] that examined this very issue in depth with interviews with
evolutionary biologists, neuroscientists, psychologists and sociologists. It
arrived at the conclusion that employment disparities increase in many
professional fields due to natural divergent proclivities when socio-economic
opportunities become equal for the sexes.
ON AVERAGE in Norway (one of the top 5 most equal countries), females prefer
more people-oriented fields such as medicine and males will favor more
systems-oriented fields such as engineering. Again, this is ON AVERAGE. There
are major overlaps in many fields (e.g. arts and research sciences) - and in
some fields there is virtually none (e.g. nursing vs sanitation). This is not
controversial amongst scientists who do their best to suspend ideological or
wishful thinking.
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70)
------
hw
Let's take gender, race, food preference out of the equation. Say a person
with qualities A and another person with qualities B both interview at a
company. Turns out that at the company (and in the industry in general, type
Bs are a minority), and there's a movement to hire more of type Bs.
If type A did better in an interview than type B, but the company ended up
hiring a type B because of the whole diversity thing, is that considered a bad
thing? Wouldn't that be considered preferential treatment? Why are there
company initiatives or programs for B but not for A.
As someone who is of type B, I feel offended that there are 'initiatives' that
help me get jobs at companies. I dont need my hand held or the job given to me
just because i'm the only B applicant in a pool of 10 applicants
~~~
closeparen
It doesn't make any sense in the context of an arbitrary type A and B free of
historical baggage. The idea is that we type As have, on balance, experienced
more "luck" and preferential treatment in our favor than type Bs _because_ we
are type As, so some artifically injected disfavor pushes the overall system
closer to balance. It's fighting unfairness with unfairness in the opposite
direction.
I was born to well-employed, college-educated parents in a stable marriage,
moved to my childhood home specifically for its excellent school district, had
plenty of quiet space and encouragement to do homework, funded through a top-5
university, etc. I've capitalized on those advantages and done quite well, but
I didn't earn them. I don't mind when some of the competitive power I merely
inherited is transferred to someone who inherited none. Probably they worked
even harder, they just started lower.
~~~
lawnchair_larry
The white kids with single mothers in the trailer park who have fought for a
chance to apply for these jobs might like a word with you.
~~~
BoiledCabbage
Yes and luckily for them, they don't have to additionally suffer from systemic
racial discrimination, which the equivalent member of a minority group
frequently would have.
Nowhere does it proclaim "If your X your life is hard, if you're Y your life
is easy." What is said (roughly) is that for two people otherwise equivalent,
if one is X and the other is Y, that in _general_ , in _current_ society life
is additionally harder for Xs - and this is due to for historical reasons.
~~~
cprayingmantis
I'm not sure your observation of of "white trash", "redneck", and "trailer
rats" not suffering from systemic racial discrimination is an accurate one. I
for one can assure you that people know how to suss out the difference and it
starts at a young age.
~~~
BoiledCabbage
It's not clear to me what you're saying. Unless I'm misunderstanding you,
"redneck" isn't a racial group.
No-one is arguing that class-based discrimination doesn't exist, as it
certainly does.
------
amateurpolymath
My impression when reading this was that the author intended it to be taken
seriously. It is written with a decidedly "academic" tone. However, it is very
light on actual research and evidence. Author says "Humans are inherently
cooperative" is a bias on the Left. Where does this come from? More unsourced
claims that strike me as suspect: "Respect for the strong/authority" is a bias
on the Right. Women have more "Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather
than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness."
~~~
habitue
So the gender differences he talks about are very obviously coming from this
meta-study:
[http://sci-hub.cc/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00320.x](http://sci-
hub.cc/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00320.x)
He uses a lot of the same terminology as the paper, references big-5
personality traits etc, as well as the same personality dimensions like
people-object axis.
The left vs. right stuff is clearly coming from Jonathan Haidt's Moral
foundations theory:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory)
The author of the "manifesto/screed" is drawing pretty clearly from good
research, but isn't linking to it or discussing it in context
~~~
ElmntOfSurprise
Note however that Gizmodo say
> Two charts and several hyperlinks are also omitted
The links that were removed are probably relevant. Some passages in the text
even have quotation marks around them where I assume that links to sources
were removed.
~~~
gopz
Yeah, what was up with that? I was really disappointed that stuff was omitted
and assumed it was why some of the author's claims seemed so bold. Is there a
link to something closer to the original around?
~~~
eneveu
I think it's this one, but the links don't seem to work:
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586-Googles-
Ideo...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586-Googles-Ideological-
Echo-Chamber.html)
Edit: Here is the PDF with working links:
[https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-
Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf)
------
remarkEon
>Microaggression training incorrectly and dangerously equates speech with
violence and isn’t backed by evidence.
This is something that's part of "training" at Google?
~~~
trav4225
In my experience, this is standard "training" almost everywhere.
------
mcphage
Simple response to his thesis: there used to be more women in programming...
back when it was harder.
~~~
jorgemf
was it harder before? Are you sure? I think your response doesn't change his
argument, before tech was less relevant for the economy, so it was less
stressful and had less status. That is why it wasn't interesting for men to
get into it and preferred other jobs with more status and stress (and bigger
salaries). But now the top companies are tech companies.
~~~
mcphage
Less status, absolutely. But much harder. We work at such a high level of
abstraction,we don't need to care about our resource usage much, we don't need
to care much about what the machine is doing, we don't have to write
everything ourselves because there are thousands of powerful libraries
available for free.
So yes. Before, programming was hard, and low status. Now it's easy and high
status, and men think that women aren't there because it's too hard. No, they
were there when it was hard.
~~~
jorgemf
> men think that women aren't there because it's too hard
Who thinks that? Hard is something relative. The author says that men could be
more prepared to tech because a biological predisposition that makes tech
easier positions for them (better abstract thinking and more tolerance for
stress, for example), while women are more prepared for other things likes
taking care of others (because they are better in socializing and empathy). As
tech became more competitive the women just left it for other things while men
get into to get more status.
~~~
mcphage
If you think that programming is a more stressful job than traditionally
female jobs like nurse, teacher, or childrearing, then I've got a bridge to
sell you in Brooklyn.
~~~
jorgemf
Yes I think so. I have been a teacher and CS engineer so for me it is clear
that CS is more stressful. Nurse is something I couldn't do and when I always
ask them why are they nurses they say they feel great when they help people
and they know they cannot help everybody. I don't know anyone in CS who feels
great when writting software.
You can keep the bridge you bought in brooklyn.
~~~
jacoblambda
I might have to disagree with you on two things.
I know plenty of people who are in CS for the challenge. They absolutely love
writing software.
Also, nurses do what they do because they feel great helping people but in no
way is that easy. Working in terminal care is extremely mentally taxing as
many to all of the people they work with are preparing to/going to die. In the
same way, nurses in the ER/ICU have to deal with people dying that are in no
way prepared to die and that is also extremely mentally taxing. In regard to
being physically taxing, much in the same way that people in CS have to deal
with deadlines and long stressful working hours, nurses can often end up with
up to 18-20 hour shifts with their off-hours and off-days classified as on
call hours that they will usually get called in to work for.
Nurses definitely are in the field because they enjoy helping people but that
in no way means that they have an easier job than people in the CS field.
~~~
jorgemf
I don't think nurses have an easy job. I don't think I could do it. I am
saying people have different skills, for some of them is easier to be a nurse
for others to be a CS engineer. I wouldn't enjoy to be a nurse the same way
another person wouldn't enjoy to be an engineer. What I am saying that there
could be biological reason why some people suits more for one job or another.
And gender is only one expression of the ADN and can be linked with those
biological reasons.
We should respect all the jobs and understand that all of them required
different skills and also that different people have different skills. And we
should try not to force people into jobs or discrimine (either negative or
positive) because of the gender or height or race or whatever. We should
evaluate the skills and give them something they will enjoy doing and will do
great.
------
nyxtom
While some of the points are worth exploring, and have actually with Google's
own research (aka psychology safety and Google's project Aristotle on what
makes a great team), much of this essay becomes immediately discredited by
creating suspect on the premise of questioning employment opportunities for
women.
I thought about this a bit but let's say it was indeed a factor of employment
and advancements over some men in roles.
There is signifant research on the benefits of a diverse culture.
Decades of research by organizational scientists, psychologists, sociologists,
economists and demographers show that socially diverse groups (that is, those
with a diversity of race, ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation) are more
innovative than homogeneous groups.
I would argue that it isn't a problem that diverse members are indeed advanced
because of ONE of the factors being their contribution to a diverse group.
That doesn't negate the necessity that they must also be good at their job.
Furthermore, great engineers are people oriented. Anyone can learn how to
write code, but it takes skill to hone in on necessary insights that deal with
people, interaction, and the nature of finding solutions that I suspect are
meant to help people.
~~~
marcell
> Decades of research by organizational scientists, psychologists,
> sociologists, economists and demographers show that socially diverse groups
> (that is, those with a diversity of race, ethnicity, gender and sexual
> orientation) are more innovative than homogeneous groups.
Can you point to the two or three best studies showing this? It seems really
hard to study objectively--how do you measure innovativeness? how do you
control for all sorts of potentially confounding variable?
------
jorgemf
> I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men
> and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences
> may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and
> leadership. Many of these differences are small and there’s significant
> overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual
> given these population level distributions.
What are your opinions about this? Do you think biological differences leads
to social differences (not only gender but race, height, etc)? Do our
"intelligences" [1] differ based on our gender? [2]
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligenc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences)
[2] [https://www.elsevier.com/connect/can-brain-biology-
explain-w...](https://www.elsevier.com/connect/can-brain-biology-explain-why-
men-and-women-think-and-act-differently)
~~~
wpietri
The right topic isn't biology, it's history.
Historically, for millennia women were treated as property of men. This was
justified with all sorts sexist jabber. The same is true of race; ou can read
all sorts of racist nonsense from the era of slavery. E.g., the Cornerstone
Speech, in which the vice-president of the Confederacy said straight out: "Our
new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are
laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal
to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his
natural and normal condition."
The important thing to note from this is that people will justify the status
quo, whatever it is, in terms of what is "natural". They are not really
rational, but rationalizing.
For the last hundred years or so, we've been struggling our way out of that
long era of institutionalized sexism and racism. If we don't fuck it up, we
might be truly out of it in another hundred years. Until we have ripped up its
roots, then questions of biology should be ignored.
Why? One good reason is that historically those arguments have proven
incredibly wrong over and over. There's a whole host of things that women
supposedly couldn't do that they now do just fine.
Second, we should learn a lesson from the long history of rationalizing the
status quo. People who do well by the current system will tend to argue to
maintain the system. Whenever we find ourselves arguing like that, we should
be very suspicious.
Third our enormous history of discrimination by gender and race entirely
confounds attempts to answer questions of what is truly innate. If we want to
get any sort of real answer, we need to build a world with no remaining trace
of bias. Only then can we start to see the nature that might exist behind
culture.
Fourth, and most importantly, it doesn't fucking matter. If men turn out to be
naturally, as a group, less good at math than women, does that mean we should
stop training men on math? No. We should train men _more_ at math, because
math is a valuable skill, humans are very plastic, and nobody should be denied
an opportunity just because somebody reduced them to a single bit, and then
condemned them to ignorance. It's dumb, it's unkind, it's wasteful.
TL;DR: Let's focus on the well-documented historical distortions of massive
gender and race bias, not subtle, possibly imaginary gender and race
differences that have been used over and over to justify that bias.
~~~
jorgemf
watch this:
[https://youtu.be/cVaTc15plVs?t=1851](https://youtu.be/cVaTc15plVs?t=1851)
(even better if you see it all)
biology comes before history, history can be a consequence of biology
> If men turn out to be naturally, as a group, less good at math than women,
> does that mean we should stop training men on math? No. We should train men
> more at math, because math is a valuable skill
This is what scares me of this society. If someone is bad at something lets
force him/her to improve at the things he/she is bad at. Instead of focusing
on the things a person is good at and try to put them on the next level and
make a difference that way, let's focus on the bad things and get a mediocre
individual.
I love maths, but are you saying art is not a valuable skill compare with
maths? Should the great artist bad at math study math and give up in art?
You might think that not training someone at something that he/she is bad at
is stupid, but some people like me think the stupid thing is to no to focus in
what make someone special and good at.
And finally, why do you think there is a bias? Couldn't be the reason that
there are not more female CS engineers that they choose freely not to be
because they just don't like it? The answer is in the video I put before.
~~~
wpietri
This is basically a long exercise in missing the point.
That I think one skill is good does not mean all other skills are bad.
Your basic notion seems to be that even though most historical bias has turned
out to be totally unjustifiable, maybe the exact amount of bias we have today
is perfectly justifiable by facts that we just don't know yet.
I can't say that's impossible, but I can say that a) it's not a smart or
useful argument, and b) it totally ignores the actual harm done by today's
bias in favor of worrying about what might happen if we're just too good to
everybody regardless of gender.
Maybe you're the one guy in the world who spends a lot of time arguing in
favor of gender bias not because he benefits from it and has soaked up
society's pro-bias conditioning. Maybe you're the one pro-bias dude who comes
upon it for purely intellectual reasons. But per Occam's Razor, you can guess
which way I'm betting.
~~~
jorgemf
I am against any bias, I want to asses people by their skills. What I am
saying is that some skills are in our genes and we cannot/shouldn't change
that (not even with positive discrimination).
And you, instead of taking a look to the video I put in my previous comment,
you decided to call me stupid. Great, do you know how I try to cure my
stupidness? Reading and watching videos of people who knows more than me.
Food for your brain: how created a prejudice first about the other in our
conversation?
~~~
wpietri
Yes, I will not be watching any videos. I don't like videos. If you have a
point, feel free to make it.
I also didn't call you stupid. Sorry if I was unclear. I am suggesting you are
a bigot.
~~~
jorgemf
The video is called Hjernevask [1] and it is a Norwegian documentary.
Norwegian is one of the highly gender equal countries [2], for your
information. The reporter is interviewing Norwegian social scientists about
their theories of gender and social constructionism. The documentary generated
much public debate in the country.
I knew you weren't calling me stupid. I called you stupid because you weren't
able to spend 1 minute to check a reference and decided to throw up all your
speech without even knowing what I was talking about.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask)
[2]
[http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....](http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0153857)
------
EGreg
I recommend to all gender warriors on either side of the debate to read this
talk given by Baumeister, which later became a book by Baumeister + Tice. It
has a lot of insights into origins of the differences between men and women.
[http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm](http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm)
One should not discount the additional biased inherent in the discussion, by
the way. This is the corporate world and people are talking about selling
their time or money. Perhaps one answer to all this is to opt out of the full-
time corporate treadmill, start your own business or be self-employed.
------
1337biz
Makes me actually respect Google! Would have not expected them having such an
open culture that lets controversial viewpoints survive.
~~~
jorgemf
Do you think the person who wrote this will survive (not being fired)?
~~~
ehsankia
I surely hope so. I think people should be allowed to discuss things like this
in an open and civil manner, no matter how wrong or flawed their arguments
are. As long as they are not openly hurting or disrespecting their coworkers,
I don't see the issue with a document like this exploring ideas. When we
promote "challenging ideas" and discussion, it applies to everyone, not only
those we agree with.
~~~
wpietri
That you don't see the harm doesn't mean there's harm. If you would care to do
a little work, you can find plenty of people explaining what the particular
harm here is.
You might also try studying history; you can find many examples of people
civilly discussing absolutely horrific ideas that resulted in enormous harm to
people. That civil discussion enabled the harm.
~~~
jorgemf
I am scared of your response, do yo mean we cannot discuss things because of
the consequences? even if we try to improve and fix things with the
discussion?
~~~
wpietri
It depends on the discussion.
If you would like to civilly promote your notion that black people aren't
really human and are only fit to be slaves, then no, we can't do that. If you
bring it up I will tell you are an asshole, and if you persist, I will shun
you and tell everybody else to shun you.
You are free to say terrible things. I am free to exercise freedom of speech
and freedom of association in response. Your freedom of speech is not freedom
from consequences.
If you are scared of that, then maybe take some time to think about the
opinions you're so excited to share. Maybe they're harmful to others.
~~~
jorgemf
So... In this article we have a person talking about the positive
discrimination in a company and how it can harm the company. This topic can
harm some people even when the author doesn't want to. You can think he is
saying terrible things (like some people thinks indeed), so you are not open
to discuss with him about the topic?
> then maybe take some time to think about the opinions you're so excited to
> share
I am not going to shut up if I think I am right and it is the best for
everybody even if my opinion hurts some people. I shouldn't do it indeed.
~~~
wpietri
> so you are not open to discuss with him about the topic?
Am I personally interested in discussing this guy's bad ideas with him? No, I
have better things to do than try to get him to examine the prejudices that
he's so energetically hiding under a mountain of justification. History
suggests that most bigots will literally die before they'll change their
opinion. And from what I've seen, those who do change don't do it because of
reasoned discussion; they instead have an emotional epiphany of the impact of
bigotry.
> I am not going to shut up if I think I am right and it is the best for
> everybody even if my opinion hurts some people. I shouldn't do it indeed.
How brave! If you look at the US's historical record, you can find a great
number of (white) people arguing that the institution of slavery is the best
for everybody even if it hurts some people. Try the Conerstone Speech, for
example, or the Texas Declaration of Secession.
Of course, you aren't that brave. Like most pro-discrimination people you
comment from the shadows.
------
sattoshi
Diversity always seems like a silly objective.
Of all things, why focus on race and gender? How about hairstyle? Why not
height? Maybe I feel like my weight is not represented fairly!
I'm just poking fun. Those aren't real questions.
The author promotes the only diversity that matters: diversity of thought.
Anything else should at worst a proxy to get some.
~~~
mempko
The only response to his post that matters are from the women in tech. Do they
appreciate it? What's your guess?
~~~
manigandham
What does that even mean? You have to be a women in tech to have your opinion
valued? Your statement is far worse than anything written in this manifesto.
~~~
mempko
What I'm saying is either this rant will put women off to tech or bring more
in. Their decision to pursue this industry is what matters. Do you think this
will be looked at positively by women currently outside tech?
------
abalone
This is not merely sexist. Amidst his rambling "evolutionary psychology"
argument he also protests racial diversity programs.[1] And his explanation
for that? It's buried here:
"Left tends to deny science concerning biological differences between people
(e.g., _IQ_ and sex differences)." (emphasis mine)
So women are bad at programming because of evolution and non-whites/asians are
bad at it because they're dumb. According to _science_. Does dressing this up
in pseudo-academic prose make it any less racist?
[1] "Stretch, BOLD, CSSI, Engineering Practicum (to an extent), and several
other Google funded internal and external programs are for people with a
certain gender or race"
~~~
lawnchair_larry
Why did you say women are bad at programming because of evolution and non-
whites/asians are bad at it because they're dumb?
I read his paper 3 times, and from what I can tell, that claim didn't exist
until you made it.
This is why we can't have honest conversations. By all means, disagree with
things that he is saying, and engage him on any points that you feel need to
be corrected. But don't disagree with things he quite obviously _isn 't_
saying. That doesn't get us anywhere.
~~~
abalone
_> I read his paper 3 times, and from what I can tell, that claim didn't exist
until you made it._
I literally directly cited the "paper", as you call it. Specifically
"evolutionary psychology" and "IQ" explaining the gender and race performance
gaps, respectively.
------
joycey
Anyone who says that this guy's opinion shouldn't matter should consider that
he likely interviews female candidates, sits on hiring committees that
evaluate female candidates, decides whether or not female engineers get
promoted, etc.
~~~
remarkEon
I'm sorry, but you're mischaracterizing what he wrote and by doing that making
his point. There's no "genetic predisposition" for not liking tech, but there
are biological differences between the sexes that affect a great many things
and he's arguing that career choice might be one of them - which seems a
pretty boring observation to me to be quite honest. I think it's weird that
you've extrapolated that to conclude that he'll be discriminating against
women in hiring decisions.
------
nyxtom
Probably would of been a good idea to have references to all those claims.
~~~
wolf550e
they were there but gizmodo removed them
------
wonderwonder
I can understand the authors point of view but he presents several points as
fact but provides no links to data supporting those points so they come across
as stereotypical generalizations.
That women and people of color have been historically discriminated against
and in many cases still are cannot be denied, especially in my personal
experience, women of color. I have seen this both in tech and outside of it.
Is there a biological or chemical component to people excelling in certain
fields? I have no idea but people must be judged as individuals not on any
conceived notions of gender or race. I am a white guy and there are tons of
women and people of color who are brighter than me or better than me at what I
do. They should not be denied a role over me because an interviewer does not
like their gender or ethnicity. If they are better than me they should get the
position, period.
On the other hand, I am white with two white sons. I in no way agree with
hiring practices or college admission policies that would put my kids at a
disadvantage based on the color of their skin or gender. If my kids want to go
to an ivy league school, and they invest the time and effort to to attain
entry they should be granted it. I would be furious if they were declined in
favor of another student if that student had worse grades and entry test level
scores but were chosen based on the color of their skin. I would be very
resentful.
If there is an issue with interviewers showing bias, we need to address that,
not establish quotas which disadvantage others. A good solution should never
involve pulling others down, a good solution lifts everyone. Bad solutions
spread resentment.
We need to stop judging others on what they are and focus on who they are. I
don't claim to be smart enough or educated enough to know the solution but i
do know what it should feel like, it should feel like a good thing to all
individuals. All individuals, not parties because we are all unique and should
be treated and judged as such.
Edit: Personal story. I was in charge of hiring for a role in a non tech
position. I interviewed several people for the position. My favorite was a
black woman, she was awesome; smart and driven. I was over ruled by my
director in favor of a decidedly less intelligent attractive white woman. His
choice was fired after 6 months for poor performance and inappropriate
behavior. Racism is absolutely alive and well in hiring. I think the solution
needs to be addressed on the hiring manager level though, not by artificial
quotas. By the same token that black woman was absolutely discriminated
against.
I don't have the answers and all of the above is just the opinion of one
person.
~~~
chippy
> but provides no links
The Gizmodo foreward say they have removed several links and a couple of
graphs. I think I also recall googlers saying that the manifesto had links to
various papers etc.
------
meowface
This document conveys its message poorly and comes across as far less neutral
than I think it's intending to be.
It raises some valid points, but it kind of feels like an extremely hamfisted
interpretation of a recent blog post by Scott Alexander:
[http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/01/gender-imbalances-
are-m...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/01/gender-imbalances-are-mostly-
not-due-to-offensive-attitudes/)
I don't think Google's official response to it is very good either, though.
~~~
ElmntOfSurprise
"Not writing as well as Scott Alexander" is a pretty high bar you're setting
there.
While the document may have been influenced by that post, and while both
authors seem to have a similar "non-feminist left" political position, it has
a different focus: Acknowledge people's natural strengths, weaknesses,
preferences and accept diversity of political views vs. influence of sexist
microagressions on gender representation.
------
Moshe_Silnorin
Deleted
~~~
jazoom
Can you please expand on the moving to Singapore part?
------
logronoide
Somebody should explain this guy that companies hire _individuals_. And these
individuals can be men or women, just like they can be tall or short, fat or
thin.
~~~
factsaresacred
He covers that right at the beginning:
> you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level
> distributions.
His screed is instead concerned with distribution across _populations_ (such
as Google's).
~~~
olliej
Somehow I don’t see a guy who says that women “in general” aren’t as
technically capable giving similar weighting’s to a woman who went to a
women’s college to a man who went elsewhere.
~~~
jorgemf
I think it is clear that he complains the company promote women over men to
increase the diversity and that the company should look to the individual
skills. That the reason of the difference in the diversity could be biological
and not gender bias and that the company should study this as a possibility
too. Not ignore it and try to equally the number of females and males in the
company
------
nyxtom
It's hard to have a serious discussion on merit based employment in a culture
of "rest and vest" where employees literally do nothing.
[http://www.businessinsider.com/rest-and-vest-millionaire-
eng...](http://www.businessinsider.com/rest-and-vest-millionaire-engineers-
who-barely-work-silicon-valley-2017-7)
------
zilchers
If you haven't, read and listen to this excellent podcast:
[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-
women-stopped-coding)
The gender issues from this paper have been pretty well hashed out, but one
really interesting thing, he makes the point about being conservative at a
tech company. I actually think this is a bit misleading. I know a large number
of tech people who would consider themselves libertarian (fiscally
conservative), but NOT socially conservative. So, at least from my experience,
I have to interpret his comments about conservatives vs. progressives as about
social conservative, in which case I would say he does himself a disservice -
a lot of the modern American social conservative movement is explicitly about
exclusion and is anti-diversity. So, I think it's fair to say, if you're
socially conservative and subscribe to the modern platform (believing LGBTQ
individuals don't deserve full rights, for instance), it may be expected to
feel a bit uncomfortable at a tech company, just like I would probably feel
uncomfortable working for a defense contractor.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Kotlin in enterprise - PleaseHelpMe
https://medium.com/@remy.chantenay/kotlin-in-enterprise-71adbdb3cf8f
======
ShardPhoenix
>You also would probably mention that the code would be less likely to be
buggy and crash due to the null safety principle. Not really. Although it
makes it easier to deal with null values, Kotlin is no miracle cure. A null
value comes from somewhere. If your logic is wrong, your logic is wrong, no
matter what is the language used.
I haven't used Kotlin extensively enough to know how much the null safety
really helps, but this reasoning seems incorrect to me. You could extend it to
say that static types aren't useful either, but in both cases there's a
significant benefit from getting faster feedback that your logic is (or might
be) wrong.
~~~
mathw
I've found it enormously useful to have languages which check on possible
nulls and make sure I've attempted to handle them, rather than just merrily
throwing a null reference exception when I get a surprise.
It's also extremely handy to know that a given method simply cannot return
null, based on nothing but its type, in a way that the compiler will have
enforced.
I feel the author is really underestimating the impact of null safety on
avoiding these annoying bugs in the first place. To my mind it's like saying
dynamic languages are as solid as static once once you've written your test
suite - that test suite's probably going to have tests in it that you're
returning the type you expected from a function, something the compiler could
easily be handling for you. What a waste of time! Just like unchecked null
handling.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Brave web browser is hijacking links, and inserting affiliate codes - davidgerard
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2020/06/06/the-brave-web-browser-is-hijacking-links-and-inserting-affiliate-codes/
======
this_user
I'm surprised people are surprised by this. Brave have said from the beginning
that this is how their business model works. What I'm even more surprised
about is that Brave has gotten any traction at all, as there is really no
reason to use it instead of a normal browser with regular ad blockers.
~~~
mmcru
I use it on iOS because its an easy solution for ad-blocking. Is there a good
ad-blocker for Safari on iOS?
~~~
chrisjarvis
I use 1Blocker on iOS and MacOS safari, which is great but costs 5$ a year.
There is no full port of uBlock to safari at this time.
~~~
fossuser
I'm a huge fan of 1Blocker and I'm glad they charge $5 a year and it's
someone's full time lifestyle company.
I've had a few content blocking apps on iOS and they've all been abandoned (or
worse sold to ad companies).
1Blocker so far has stuck around and stayed high quality.
------
egypturnash
From the same browser that brought you “Hey we’ll just start taking donations
for everyone whose ads we block, and we won’t put any effort into contacting
anyone to tell them about this - and if they do find out, the process to start
getting those donations is a giant pain in the ass!”
I’m tempted to add some browser sniffing to my site just so I can block this
scammy thing. I don’t even have ads on my comics any more, just a Patreon. And
I fully expect at this point that anyone clicking my Patreon link on Brave
would get redirected to some weird site they built that skims my Patreon
posts, makes you pay in crypto, and only pays me 5¢ out of every dollar you
think you’re paying me.
~~~
chipotle_coyote
Nothing I've read about Brave has ever made me want to use it instead of _any
other browser with a basic ad blocker,_ and this whole "we will save the web
by substituting other people's ads with our own and making them all party to
our business model whether they want to be or not, also something something
cryptocurrency woo" shtick was the main reason. It continues to be the main
reason.
~~~
ketamine__
They don't substitute on page ads and viewing ads that are notifications is
optin. There are also ads on new tabs. That's another chance to earn BAT. The
user decides if they want to donate to a site. If the owner doesn't sign up
the tips remain with the user. I have donated $10 to my favorite open source
developer after convincing him to sign up. All I had to do was visit his
GitHub profile and click a few times.
That Brave uses cryptocurrency is not a reason to dismiss it. There is a lot
of hand waving but the hand wavers have no idea how Brave works. At least be
familiar with the object of your criticism. Even the author of the blog post
doesn't know the difference between a link and auto complete. How is that
helpful?
A legitimate criticism of Brave is that competitors like Scroll have amassed
quite a few publishers for their micropayments platform. Can Brave catch up?
------
phnofive
> However, Eich is very sorry that Brave got caught — again — and something
> will be changed in some manner to stop this behaviour, or at least obscure
> it.
No surprise there.
> There is no good reason to use Brave. Use Chromium — the open-source core of
> Chrome — with the uBlock Origin ad blocker [...] or use Firefox with uBlock
> Origin — ‘cos it blocks more ads than the Chromium framework will let
> anything block.
Is this true? I assumed the functionality would be the same.
~~~
molticrystal
How is the android scene for Chromium based browsers that either have
extension support or adblockers?
I am aware only of Yandex & Kiwi as Chromium browsers that support extensions
that allow you to install an adblocker. So perhaps Brave is trying to
integrate itself there somehow by having it built in.
Anybody know a better breakdown than this for mobile browser market share?
[https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/mobile/world...](https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/mobile/worldwide#monthly-201905-202005-bar) It says Chromium is 61% and
Yandex is 0.1% but it would be nice to see if Brave was included or not.
~~~
aasasd
Yandex is the company whose sites actively fight ad-blocking more than anyone
else of whom I know. Afaik Yandex is just not in the uBO lists anymore,
because it was no use changing the filters again and again. So I guess Yandex
_might_ allow installing filters which can't catch it anyway, but I wonder if
it won't cripple the extension somehow for good measure.
~~~
Markoff
their browser doesn't affect functionality of ublock, but it's not good
browser anyway, trying to show down your throat many intrusive features by
default
------
meerita
Being a happy Firefox user and watching all the browser drama from the
backyard. I still don't understand why people uses Chrome or Chrome variants
claiming privacy things.
~~~
doc_gunthrop
With Chrome taking the lion's share of the browser user market, you end up
with a lot of sites that work well in Chrome but not so well with other
browsers.
So even if you use Firefox as your main driver, you'll still want to have a
Chromium-based browser as a backup.
Now the problem for Android users is that, in light of this news, there's now
one less (seemingly) viable option if you're using Google Play services.
If you're using F-droid, however, you have Bromite and ungoogled-Chromium as
prime candidates.
~~~
ifdefdebug
> So even if you use Firefox as your main driver, you'll still want to have a
> Chromium-based browser as a backup.
Nope. When something doesnt work in my FF then good bye. I cant be bothered to
do extra work like switching browsers for to support their incompetence.
It'been rare though.
~~~
cerberusss
Very rarely, I fall back to Safari because I'm on Mac. But on my laptop, I
don't have anything installed from Google. It's just not necessary.
------
tyingq
I would think the affiliate programs wouldn't like this either.
The browser isn't doing anything to drive traffic. It's just taking credit for
traffic that was coming already.
~~~
javajosh
Good point. Maybe brave should make affiliate-able links blink and/or respond
to clicks in a wider area? (Just to be clear: this is satire. Please don't do
this.)
~~~
ashtonkem
Don't give him ideas.
------
Nextgrid
Brave's whole business model is flawed, even ignoring shenanigans like this.
They claim they want to fix everything wrong with today's web (annoying and
privacy-invasive ads, etc) by replacing them their own ads backed by a shitty
cryptocurrency. While this might work in the short term while the browser is
niche, they will have no choice but to deploy the same techniques once it goes
mainstream and ad fraud goes up, removing their only selling point.
The only real solution here is to just admit that view-based or click-based
advertising on the web is flawed (and will always be vulnerable to fraud) and
get rid of it, replacing it with time-based advertising where you pay for an
ad to stay up for a certain period of time regardless of how many clicks or
views it gets, making it immune to fraud and reducing the need for privacy-
violating analytics because the only analytic that matters is "do we make more
money?". Of course, this _real_ solution wouldn't allow opportunistic
middlemen to make money out of thin air, so that's why we have Brave instead.
~~~
anderber
> by replacing them their own ads backed by a shitty cryptocurrency
This is not true at all, and it has been talked enough here but I figured I'd
explain it again. The Brave ads are opt-in, for people who would like to earn
"shitty" cryptocurrency by clicking on them.
They are fixing the ad issue by blocking the ads and letting you "pay" the
sites with BAT tokens. This can be done by a one-time donation or
automatically each month (based on your attention). Reason for the Basic
Attention Token name.
~~~
lakeWater
Thought I should point out you receive BAT for viewing the notifications. Not
for clicking on them.
[https://support.brave.com/hc/en-
us/articles/360026361072-Bra...](https://support.brave.com/hc/en-
us/articles/360026361072-Brave-Ads-FAQ)
------
FillardMillmore
I am an enthusiastic Brave user - but seeing stories like these make me wonder
if I'd be better off configuring Firefox to be more secure/private and using
that.
As a privacy and transparency advocate, it disappoints me to see Brave fail to
pass the test, especially considering that privacy and transparency are
supposed to be the browser's MO.
~~~
luxurytent
Not too difficult to configure Firefox imo. My recommendations on plugins:
* HTTPS Everywhere: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/https-everywh...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/https-everywhere/) * DuckDuckGo Privacy Essentials: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-fo...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-for-firefox/) * uBlock Origin Firefox: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)
~~~
whycombagator
Privacy Badger[0] too. Multi-account containers[1]. I also agree with the
Decentraleyes[2] suggestion.
[0] [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/privacy-
badge...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/privacy-badger17/)
[1] [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-
account...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-
containers/)
[2] [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/decentraleyes...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/decentraleyes/)
------
dkdk8283
Brave has to pay salaries - I suppose this is better than selling user data.
Chrome is subsidized by search and Firefox gets money from Google.
The revenue model for browsers is fucked up.
~~~
LeoPanthera
Ironically there’s only one browser with a sane business model and it’s
Safari. You have to buy an Apple product to use it. Simple.
That’s probably why it’s the only mainstream browser, outside of obscure open
source browsers like Falkon and Gnome Web, that doesn’t have any built-in ties
to third party services.
~~~
the_duke
Apple gets billions and billions each year to make Google the default search
engine in Safari on iOS and Mac OS. (reported to be 12 billion in 2019 [1])
Apples privacy efforts and signaling are motivated by differentiation to
Android/Google and are mostly just marketing targeted at increasingly privacy-
aware consumers. Not some value judgement. (in my opinion)
[1] [https://fortune.com/2018/09/29/google-apple-safari-search-
en...](https://fortune.com/2018/09/29/google-apple-safari-search-engine/)
~~~
vvG94KbDUtRa
Also increasingly apple is moving to compete in services. Every incentive in
the world will be to adopt the practices the other guys do. Putting your trust
in apple right now on the privacy issue seems pretty misguided.
------
Havoc
Wow. They appear to have a death wish.
If your entire raison d'etre is privacy and clear stated model then one covert
shady move like this can wreck trust irrevocably.
If they had just declared that their model includes inserting affiliate codes
then that would all be fine.
The codes aren't the issue here its a violation of trust. If I'm OK with
mystery monetization stuff happening behind the scenes I'd be using Chrome.
~~~
fastball
Except mystery monetization is a pre-req for heavily maintained software that
you don't pay for.
I'd rather the mystery be "affiliate deals" than "selling my data".
Mozilla's mystery monetization is getting paid lotsa dollars to make Google
the default search engine in Firefox. And Google can only afford that because
of ads. If Firefox integrated ad-blocking by default like Brave did, Google
might be inclined to pull that deal, as it is paid for with ads.
I trust the company with that conflict of interest less than I trust Brave.
~~~
Havoc
Very valid point :)
------
heavyset_go
It's as if Brave is performance art put on by Mozilla's advertising
department.
~~~
chrisjarvis
he updated the article and quoted you in it :D
~~~
heavyset_go
Nice catch, wouldn't have noticed otherwise.
------
mukuz
Most comments here are blowing things way out of proportion. Links are in no
way getting modified by the browser. The issue is that when someone types
binance.us(or a few other brave affiliate sites) in the address bar, the top
recommended link comes to be one with the referral link appended. When enter
is hit that link is automatically selected(normal chromium behaviour) and page
opens with the url with referral code. This sure is problematic. As Brendan
has said[1] it sure was not the right way to do it. Again, the links in pages
are in no way modified as people are trying to portray.
[1]
[https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269317625915400192](https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269317625915400192)
------
Meekro
You know how Firefox has a deal with Google where if you use Firefox and do a
Google search and click on an ad, Firefox gets a cut of the ad money? This is
sort of like that: Binance and Brave have a deal[1] where Brave promotes
Binance from an in-browser widget[2], and in return Brave gets affiliate money
whenever a Brave user signs up for Binance (whether by clicking on the widget
or not).
In cases of affiliate hijacking, the company (and not the user) is the victim
because the company is made to pay referral money when the hijacker didn't
actually refer the customer. This didn't happen here because, again, Brave and
Binance have a deal and Brave is operating according to that deal.
I suppose editing URLs out from under people is a little weird, so now that
there's been an outcry they'll probably change it to identify Brave users by
UserAgent or by injecting an HTTP header or something.
[1]
[https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269289242905042944](https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269289242905042944)
[2] [https://cointelegraph.com/news/brave-browser-brings-
binance-...](https://cointelegraph.com/news/brave-browser-brings-binance-
integration-to-all-desktop-users)
------
davidgerard
OP here. Brendan Eich is now publicly calling me a liar, though he's
inexplicably failed to detail the claimed lies. I've asked him to do so.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200606232839/https://twitter.c...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200606232839/https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269403116740308993)
~~~
mthoms
Your title is, at the very best, poorly phrased. At worst, intentionally
misleading. Whether or not you approve of what they are doing, and regardless
of whether what they are doing is moral - they are not "hijacking links". That
practice of "hijacking links" _specifically_ means re-writing/modifying
_existing_ links on pages that you don't control (hence the term "hijacking"
\- or taking what belongs to someone else).
A URL _typed_ in an address bar is not "a link". It's a typed URL.
Curiously, your article seems to describe what is happening pretty accurately
so it's hard to see why you chose the title you did (other than to be
clickbait-y and sensationalist - you are selling a book on the topic after
all).
Again, that's not to excuse what they are doing. At all. But link hijacking
has come to have a specific meaning and this isn't it.
TL;DR - Link is short for hyper-link. There are no hyper-links involved here.
~~~
mthoms
I know I'm not supposed to reference downvotes on HN. But I would like to
kindly ask downvoters to explain _why_ what I've written is incorrect.
~~~
fault_lines
Regardless of whether the terminology is technically correct, it's easily
understood what the meaning is. Modifying links and modifying typed URLs are
equally bad, so your claim that it is sensationalist doesn't make sense. Your
post is pure pedantry that does not make any substantive contribution.
~~~
mthoms
>Modifying links and modifying typed URLs are equally bad
Sorry, but you're plainly wrong.
"Modifying links" implies another victim in the scheme: The party who authored
the link in the first place. It implies that a third party is being deprived
of their affiliate revenue because the link they wrote was "hijacked".
That's not what happened. No one is having anything _stolen_. If that
distinction is not important to you.... then I don't know what to say.
Words matter. Never more so than when making serious accusations.
~~~
fault_lines
They are equally bad because in both cases _the user_ is taken to a place that
they _did not intend to go_. They are not bad because something is getting
"stolen", they are bad because the user is no longer in control. That is a
significantly more concerning aspect than someone not receiving affiliate
revenue, which to be completely honest, I couldn't care less about.
~~~
mthoms
So a third party _also_ being wronged does not change anything because... you
don't like the third party? Classy.
Do you have an actual argument or is that it?
Edit: This has got to be the first time I've seen an HN'er _defend_ someone
adding a clickbait title to their submission. A submission that points to
_their own_ marketing website. The guy is selling a book. Don't be so naive.
The accusation stands on its own without sensationalizing it.
~~~
fault_lines
I simply don't believe that mistakenly saying "links" instead of "URLs" is
sensationalist. The author is not engaging in clickbait by substituting that
word. A layman understanding of the web will not make a distinction between a
URL and a link. The issue is clearly the fact that the browser _deceives the
user_ , whether it is changing a link in a page or changing the URL typed in
the address bar, these are both equally deceptive from the user's point of
view.
Hell, I have a reasonably good knowledge of the terminology and I will
regularly ask people to "send me links" or "send me URLs" interchangeably.
It's just needlessly pedantic.
~~~
mthoms
He's a _technical writer_ (by profession) directing traffic to his blog
dedicated to _marketing_ his _technical book_. Don't be naive, he knows
exactly what he's doing.
Furthermore, I responded directly to the OP when he pondered aloud why he
would be accused of lying. I explained. Then you jumped on me for being
pedantic and posting non-substantive comments? Okay, seriously?
Speaking of which, why _did_ the OP post the comment to HN about Eich calling
him a liar, if not to stir up controversy (and traffic)? That's highly
unusual. Did you ever consider that Brave is not the only one selling
something?
>The issue is clearly the fact that the browser deceives the user, whether it
is changing a link in a page or changing the URL typed in the address bar,
these are both equally deceptive from the user's point of view
That's simply not true. They are not equally deceptive.... _at all_. A web
browser surreptitiously re-writing third party web-content is next level evil.
The implications would be absolutely _astronomical_.
It's not the same and you know it.
------
srich36
This is similar to when Pinterest did this back in 2012 and very quickly made
large amounts of money but were crushed by public opinion and quickly shut the
practice down. It’ll be interesting to see how Brave responds.
1\.
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2012/2/8/2783807/pintrest-
skimming-affiliate-links)
~~~
lexs
Ironic that you posted an AMP link
[https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2012/2/8/2783807/pintr...](https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2012/2/8/2783807/pintrest-
skimming-affiliate-links)
~~~
llacb47
That's still an AMP link
~~~
greenyoda
Non-AMP link: [https://www.theverge.com/2012/2/8/2783807/pintrest-
skimming-...](https://www.theverge.com/2012/2/8/2783807/pintrest-skimming-
affiliate-links)
------
RJVB
Interesting discussion. I'm probably not the only one who started using Brave
(on the side) because it's being put forward as one of the fastest/leanest
browsers around. And I need something like that for the hybrid Win10 PC I
chose as a cheap tablet alternative that will also run desktop software. I
can't attest to "leanest", but it is indeed the only browser that works
reasonably well with something like Facebook on that tablet. Anything else
becomes unbearably sluggish after a short while, an MS Edge just has a too
much crippled UI (and general incapability to function with my filtering
proxy, Privoxy).
I see lots of remarks about FF being slow. It's a memory hog indeed (can't use
it on my tablet because of that), but so are Chromium-based browsers, and FF
is the only one I know where you can trigger a GC run that actually has some
effect. I combine that with "The Great Suspender" extension to keep things
manageable. Funny enough it was by far the fastest a year or 2 ago on what
seemed a reasonably representative HTML5 benchmark that has been taken offline
since. It's also the only option to have an up-to-date browser on my Mac that
I've been keeping under OS X 10.9.5. That alone earns them my support...
I do wonder why WebKit2 isn't been used more; outside of the Apple universe
(where it's sadly linked to the OS version) the only "official" browser I know
of that uses it is Gnome's epiphany which isn't exactly cross-platform. My
tests with the rebooted QtWebkit suggest that the older (but maintained,
AFAIK) WebKit codebase superior in performance and resource use to Chromium
("WebEngine") for sites that don't require newer, unsupported features (and as
an embedded HTML renderer).
------
throw2308230492
This article is highly inflammatory.
These are not random websites they are hijacking for affiliate money like the
article purports. These are all advertisers / partners that appear on the new
tab landing page when you sign up for Brave rewards...This is affiliate
tracking for advertisements baked into the browser itself not some nefarious
scheme to skim off someones else's traffic.
~~~
egypturnash
This is not on the new tab page, this is hijacking links typed directly into
the address bar. “If you’re using Brave and try to go to the Binance crypto
exchange, Brave hijacks the Binance link you typed in, and autofills with its
own affiliate code.”
There’s an animated screen capture of this happening here:
[https://twitter.com/cryptonator1337/status/12692014801055784...](https://twitter.com/cryptonator1337/status/1269201480105578496)
~~~
secr3t0
Hate it when people do this. Have you actually even tried it ? It just shows
the referral link suggestion at the top, it doesn't hijack the link you typed
in. You're still free to open the original link. Of course the twitter post
cleverly hides this by hiding the list of suggestions. Now we have this long
flaming thread for something that's totally normal and perfectly acceptable.
~~~
RandomBacon
Firefox: type in Binance.us and immediately press enter - no referral code.
Chrome: type in Binance.us and immediately press enter - no referral code.
Brave: type in Binance.us and immediately press enter - yes referral code.
~~~
lakeWater
Looks like their plan for resolving the outrage is an opt-in setting.
[https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269404443818119168](https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269404443818119168)
------
gridlockd
This is a nothingburger. Brave adds its own referrer code to a handful of
crypto-related websites, if you type them into the address bar. It doesn't
modify other affiliate links, as far as I can tell.
------
kohtatsu
Don't they understand they're undermining the entire point of affiliate codes?
This would never be sustainable long-term, it's just dumb and awful for very
short-term gain.
------
rsynnott
> “In short run, without sounding Nietzschean, will matters. Patreon’s is weak
> or corrupt. Ours is not“
What is he, a ‘Silicon Valley’ character?
~~~
ashtonkem
Life imitates art.
------
oldgregg
Given the Total Information Surviellance from Google this is _relatively_ a
non-issue. Nearly anything that meaningfully restrains Google is a net good at
this point. Getting bent over this is like people who dismiss Signal for not
having perfect e2e- purists that are oblivious to what is actually happening
in the world.
------
oftenwrong
How could they not realise this would turn away their target audience?
~~~
rsynnott
What IS their target audience, though? I always vaguely thought it was the
crypto people, who as a community are quite accepting of weird slightly shady
stuff. I could never really figure out who this product was for tho.
~~~
RandomBacon
People that are too lazy to install add-ons or that want some pocket change in
tokens?
The shills say "privacy", but it's not any better than Firefox with add-ons
(and worse because using it adds to the Chromium ecosystem which Google
ultimately controls), and you have to KYC if you want to withdraw the tokens.
------
KennethSRoberts
I use and love Brave (since beta). As usual HN making a bigger deal out of
nothing. They gotta make money, and it's not like they are stealing from
anyone else (replacing ref links).
Chill out.
~~~
foob4r
This. HN is so entitled - I want the perfect thing, then complain about them
trying to be sustainable.
------
gnicholas
Bummer! I got the Tracking Token Stripper [1] to help remove stuff like this.
Wonder what the result is if I use this and Brave — which one wins?
1: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tracking-token-
str...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tracking-token-
stripper/kcpnkledgcbobhkgimpbmejgockkplob?hl=en)
------
josefresco
Vivaldi is my "third" browser. I have it setup with maximum privacy settings
and extensions.
[https://vivaldi.com](https://vivaldi.com)
"Vivaldi is a freeware, cross-platform web browser developed by Vivaldi
Technologies, a company founded by Opera Software co-founder and former CEO
Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner and Tatsuki Tomita."
------
jccalhoun
I seem to collect browsers like some people collect pokemon. Right now I am
typing this in firefox and have twitch open in chrome in my second monitor. I
use Edge for work accounts, Waterfox for times when I want to use a couple old
addons that were never ported over, and opera and vivaldi around just to see
how they measure up.
------
ChuckMcM
Filed under "Things people do that are 'perfectly legal' and reprehensible at
the same time."
------
xtat
I get that this is a bad look but practically speaking it's not that different
from Google paying Mozilla for every search query that comes in with a FF
User-Agent. Article reads more like personal beef
------
christophilus
Typing this on Brave for iOS. What is the best browser for iOS from a privacy
standpoint? Firefox doesn’t have uBlock Origin. I don’t trust Microsoft Edge
or Chrome. What do you suggest?
~~~
Nightshaxx
Um Firefox not only has uBlock origin, it's way better than Chrome's version.
FF is definitely way better.
~~~
RandomBacon
Apple doesn't let it's users have the freedom to install add-ons.
~~~
mukuz
You can install Firefox Focus[1] on iOS and enable it as a content blocker in
safari settings. It works really well as an ad-blocker.
[1] [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-focus-privacy-
browser/...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-focus-privacy-
browser/id1055677337)
------
modzu
please brave dont f this up. we really need you!
------
fulldecent2
Project plan for a new browser:
1\. Copy Brave. 2\. Remove everything except the part about paying monthly and
supporting websites you visit
Who's with me?
~~~
ketamine__
Micropayments have failed many times before. I can earn BAT with Brave and
donate it to sites without having to sign up and deposit money with a credit
card. There is much less friction compared to solutions that came before it.
Andrew Mason is forking Brave and doing some of what you describe. Being
associated with Gab and Andrew Mason isn't for everyone.
------
slashink
Always a balance with a tradeoff, I'm not sure if to uninstall here or come to
terms with the business model.
------
ijustwanttovote
Copied my wallets and removed Brave off all my devices. It only lasted a
couple weeks, lol.
------
drummer
They began sucking pretty fast. Good riddance.
------
Markoff
who even use brave on desktop? author completely misses point with
alternatives
for Android he recommends only Firefox which is either slow or buggy, but
nowhere close to stability and speed of chromium browsers
if you want chromium browser for Android with ublock your only options are
Kiwi browser with outdated chromium, shady Russian yandex browser, ungoogled
chromium pretty much in alpha or brave which promises extensions by the end of
June
------
waynesonfire
i'm done with brave.
------
arez
You have become the very thing you swore to destroy!
~~~
Koshkin
Yeah, that’s the thing with trust: you shouldn’t.
------
buboard
bit overblown. It's not all "links", they did the redirect for the
autocomplete of "binance.us" and they are correcting it.
[https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269313200127795201](https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269313200127795201)
~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
It's not just "binance.us", it's common terms like "bitcoin", "btc", "ltc",
"eth", etc.
[https://github.com/brave/brave-
core/blob/master/components/o...](https://github.com/brave/brave-
core/blob/master/components/omnibox/browser/suggested_sites_provider_data.cc)
Eich's tweet worsens things as it omits that fact.
I see there is already a user submitted PR to remove this code:
[https://github.com/brave/brave-
core/pull/5759/files](https://github.com/brave/brave-core/pull/5759/files)
We'll see how that goes.
~~~
duskwuff
Wow... that looks to me like they're injecting their affiliate code to some
URLs which the user would have to type in manually, like "binance.com",
"coinbase.com/join", or "trezor.io/product/trezor-one-metallic". _That 's
affiliate fraud_ \-- Brave is not responsible for referring the user to those
URLs, so it's inappropriate for them to claim credit for the referral. I'd be
shocked if the parties involved didn't terminate Brave's affiliate account
upon discovering this.
------
sergiotapia
I'm going to have to switch browser AGAIN? Dammit.
Is Opera safe or what shady shit have they done? I haven't used Opera since
Opera back in 2006. God I miss the Presto engine and dragonfly.
Can I go back to them or they doing shady stuff?
~~~
kick
Opera is still proprietary, and, uh, also they got caught doing some stuff
involving predatory short-term loans to the impoverished in African countries,
not to mention their CEO was _also_ involved in an entirely different Chinese
conglomerate that was also involved with fraud and some lending thing.
Oh yeah and if you haven't used it since 2006: Opera is Chromium now, and the
company behind it got sold a time or two.
~~~
sergiotapia
what the fuck, whats happening in the tech scene :(
what should I use if I _dont_ want to be in the botnet or scammed and outside
of google's mesh
~~~
superkuh
I used Opera from 5 to 12, then Firefox till v37, and it's been Pale Moon ever
since. Check out the latest release notes. I know I'm not the only one that
likes things such as,
>Removed more telemetry code
>Removed the in-browser speech recognition engine and API
>Removed support for the obsolete and unmaintained NVidia 3DVision
stereoscopic interface.
Palemoon is Firefox if it were still Firefox instead of feature-for-feature
chrome copy for watching encrypted netflix.
~~~
Shared404
I would love to be able to use Palemoon, but I just can't get over the fact
that it's a single main developer trying to maintain an entire web browser.
That seems like a security nightmare waiting to happen. If I'm wrong about
this, please let me know, I really like the idea.
~~~
Koshkin
Except they don’t “maintain the entire browser,” rather, they “maintain” a
trimmed-down build.
~~~
duskwuff
I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to draw here. The fact that
Moonchild has removed some a few features they don't like from Palemoon
doesn't make the remaining codebase meaningfully easier to maintain. They're
still left with what is effectively an orphaned codebase, increasingly unable
to use patches from mainline Firefox, and subject to unknown vulnerabilities
in portions of the codebase which no longer exist upstream.
~~~
superkuh
Maybe we're touching the same elephant but we're obviously on opposite ends of
it. That's how I perceive Firefox security with all it's crazy new features,
old experiments left in, black box DRM that's literally unauditable, etc.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why I don't use the GPL - georgecmu
http://www.kaybee.org/~kirk/GPL.html
======
iuguy
While I respect the author's choice, I have to disagree over the point about
people contributing to the codebase.
I've spent the past two years reverse engineering products _built on Linux_
with no source code or build chain available. Last week I spent two days
breaking into an embedded Linux device that runs alongside entire families of
motherboards using an almost completely open stack with no attribution, no
contribution and no source code release. The authors (both the OEM and the
motherboard manufacturer) as far as I can tell do not contribute to any of the
projects I've identified on the board from their official email addresses or
in a professional capacity.
When you start looking at MiFi hotspots it's even worse. I did a talk last
year at BlackHat EU on one example[1] where I finally managed to get the
developers to fess up the source.
[1] - [http://media.blackhat.com/bh-eu-12/Lord/bh-eu-12-Lord-
Hotspo...](http://media.blackhat.com/bh-eu-12/Lord/bh-eu-12-Lord-Hotspot-
Slides.pdf)
~~~
jcr
For those interested in seeing the BlackHat video presentation by Steve Lord
(hn:iuguy):
[https://www.blackhat.com/html/bh-eu-12/bh-
eu-12-archives.htm...](https://www.blackhat.com/html/bh-eu-12/bh-
eu-12-archives.html#lord)
At the time the idea of "required sharing" was put forward by RMS (1985 or
so), it was a serious improvement over the status quo of proprietary software
protected by confusing licensing terms.
Trying to redefine the terms "free," "freedom," and "liberty" to mean
"restricted," "required," and "threat of legal harm" is dishonest rhetoric.
The GNU/FSF should be more honest and direct by clearly describing their
license as "sharing required."
The existence of a commonly used "sharing required" licenses like the GPL, and
LGPL, and LLGPL, and ... has been beneficial in a lot of different ways. The
primary way it has been beneficial over the years has been in how it very
successfully nudges reluctant industry players towards releasing source code.
The _requirement_ of sharing has shown industry the advantages of sharing code
when they were previously fixated on the competitive advantages of not
releasing code.
In the early days, the older BSD/MIT/ISC/PublicDomain licenses (well, public
domain is not formally a license but you get the point), were insufficient to
convince industry players to give up the competitive advantages of proprietary
licenses and closed source software for the competitive advantages of
collaboration through open source.
Times have changed, but not much. Licenses on open source code are still
violated constantly by closed source vendors. It's not just a GPL problem;
there's tons of proprietary closed source programs out there that fail to live
up to either the "attribution" clause or the old "advertising" clause of the
BSD-ish licenses. It really doesn't matter if your license of choice has an
inherited "sharing required" clause, since it will still get lifted and
incorporated into closed source, proprietary programs. Unless you have tons of
time and money to waste in chasing the violators, your preferred license terms
really don't matter.
The most interesting thing about violations of open source licenses is the
reverse engineering perspective. When you're able to identify the misused open
source code within an executable binary, you can then use fingerprinting of
the open source to better understand the closed source binaries. If you're
curious about this kind of identification and program understanding in reverse
engineering, you should look into the FLIRT and FLARE features of the IDA Pro
disassembler.
~~~
iuguy
> The most interesting thing about violations of open source licenses is the
> reverse engineering perspective. When you're able to identify the misused
> open source code within an executable binary, you can then use
> fingerprinting of the open source to better understand the closed source
> binaries. If you're curious about this kind of identification and program
> understanding in reverse engineering, you should look into the FLIRT and
> FLARE features of the IDA Pro disassembler.
For Linux-based devices more often than not they use a uImage loader with one
of 3 filesystems (JFFS2, Squashfs, CramFS), so once you've got around whatever
encryption or encapsulation's in the image (I typically generate a picture
graphing bytes to spot entropy, a technique I shamelessly stole from Don A.
Bailey) you can normally run something like binwalk[1] to identify the
filesystems and dd them out using a small shell script. I typically mount each
resulting image and extract the contents then unmount. You can usually spot
the open source bits by looking at binary names, strings and the way they're
linked.
Most Linux-based devices use common distros based on SBCs with uClibc and are
either ARM or MIPS based. I'm slightly biased towards ARM because of the
hotspot work but there's a lot of broadcom SBCs out there running *wrt
variants.
If anyone's interested, I'll be at #44Café[2] this tuesday talking about
breaking into onboard BMCs used for IPMI-based management. Again, GPL
violations ahoy.
[1] - <https://code.google.com/p/binwalk/> [2] - <http://44con.com/44cafe>
~~~
jcr
Thanks for the 44con invite. It looks like fun, but I'm nowhere near there.
Also, your BlackHat presentation was excellent, and surprisingly, I'm actually
planing on watching it again to lift the details.
I'm curious if you've touched any of the Verizon "MiFi" devices?
I've started mildly poking at a MiFi4620LE (4G LTE "jetpack") recently, but
not very seriously --It's not mine personally and its on a corporate account
so I've been promised (read: threatened) to not mess with it too much. ;-)
It's extremely fast but the double (p)NAT'ing is annoying i.e. it provides
access to client devices via NAT to priv address space, but it's upstream
interface is also NAT'ed by the carrier and in priv address space.
So far I've figured out how to talk to it over USB, but I want to get it into
"stupid" mode and talk directly to its internal modem. I want it to just be a
dumb modem with a public address(es). I'm fairly sure there's a way to do it,
but I just need to figure out how to do it. If I can get at the serial port,
then it's game over.
~~~
iuguy
The MiFi4620LE is actually from the Novatel 4620L family and looks similar
from what I can discern to the Novatel 3352 that I have.
Novatel are horrible to deal with. They close their platform, don't release
any firmware updates whatsoever and ship broken kit based almost entirely on
open source software while never releasing the source they're legally obliged
to provide. You need to avoid these guys if possible.
The double NATing might be the 4G network. It's not uncommon to go from
RFC1918 (you to device) to P2P device - mobile infrastructure to RFC1918 to
boundary and onto the Internet.
If you take the case apart you should find a set of 5 blobs or holes usually
in a row that might indicate a JTAG interface, and with a bit of kit you
should be able to get your serial port. I've not looked at my 3352 yet because
the case doesn't come apart easily and I've mainly been playing with a much
more hackable TP-Link device (the WR-703N).
If it's like the 3352 it'll run a custom 'MifiOS' that has a ton of useless
little api calls to feed javascript widgets on the web interface for things
like geolocation and other pointless things.
------
kostya-kow
In a sense, GPL is not free. It is free as in "freedom for society," but it is
not free in a selfish, individualistic way. It does _not_ give you freedom to
not respect other people's freedom.
By using GPL, you sacrifice some of your personal freedom for the good of
society.
But this is sometimes necessary for progress.
>A majority of companies have already decided that their product will be
closed-source before they even started designing it.
Such a close-minded company does not deserve to benefit from FLOSS Software.
If more organizations release their code under GPL, it will give this group of
organizations an advantage over the once who prefer closed source license.
You can also just dual-license it, and give the companies that want to use
your software in closed-source programs a chance to pay you money.
>If a closed-source company decides it could use some open-source code in its
product, it will do one of two things (if the code is licensed under the GPL):
>1\. Use the open-source code and not tell anybody
>2\. Write their own code from scratch
If an essential library/framework this company wants to use is licensed under
GPL, they may reconsider their decision to release software under closed-
source license. And if they are so stubborn as to not even consider using
FLOSS Software, then they do not deserve to exist. Newer, more innovative
companies will take their place, leveraging the benefits of FLOSS.
I also think Linux's popularity over BSD kernels is a great example of why GPL
is far better than all the permissive OSS licenses.
~~~
jiggy2011
They might reconsider the licensing, OTOH it would be just as likely that this
would create a market for companies to sell proprietary friendly libraries for
the sorts of things that are typically available under MIT/BSD etc today.
The risk would be that such a market would tempt talent away from the open
source ecosystem.
------
icebraining
_I have, however, come to the conclusion that software licensed under the GPL
is far from "free software"._
Not to take on OP himself, but this kind of semantic argument gets tiring.
Free Software is a name for a concept that essentially means, "all software
that gives the user the four freedoms state in its definition." The whole
discussion around what it means for software to really be Free is a pointless
red herring.
------
jeffdavis
I have thought for a while that the FSF made a miscalculation with the GPL.
The focus of the GPL is very much on the source code itself, as though having
it was everything. I think that was a reasonable assumption to make at the
time, but I don't think it reflects the current reality.
In reality, the code itself is somewhat of a liability -- a source of bugs and
a time sink when you try to make modifications. What you really want is the
end product and the flexibility to modify and improve it. To have the end
product you don't need the source at all, and to modify and improve it the
source is (nearly) necessary but not sufficient.
That has a few implications. One is that companies don't want to be burdened
with source code. They would prefer to share the burden with other users, as
long as they aren't giving away any competitive advantage they have. Win-win:
they keep the ability to improve and modify it as they need, but unload much
of the maintenance cost.
The GPL avoids a problem where people take an open source project and try to
drive it away with a closed-source product that is a little better. But that
doesn't really happen as far as I can see -- usually, releasing a closed-
source product based on an open source project is good for both.
------
ysapir
"The company is much more likely to work with the open-source developers"
This is an understatement. When you work with an open-source third-party
library/module in a commercial company, it is much easier for the company to
submit bugfix patches to the open source developers. The company probably has
access to a wider range of data (including proprietary client data that can't
be released) but which will highlight hard to find bugs. The code is open
source so it can debug the problem itself. But even if it is
MIT/BSD/Apache/etc, it makes more sense for the company to send back the
patches to be integrated. Otherwise, it has to maintain an unreleased patch-
list and re-apply it with every version update. If it does not apply cleanly,
it has to spend resources to update the patch to the changes in the new
version. It's developer time the company can use for better things.
Knowing this is one more reason I am also more likely to choose code released
under a permissive license than under GPL. I figure all things being equal, it
is probably better tested, better code.
~~~
kostya-kow
>The code is open source so it can debug the problem itself. But even if it is
MIT/BSD/Apache/etc, it makes more sense for the company to send back the
patches to be integrated. Otherwise, it has to maintain an unreleased patch-
list and re-apply it with every version update. If it does not apply cleanly,
it has to spend resources to update the patch to the changes in the new
version. It's developer time the company can use for better things.
It would be much easier for those companies to contribute upstream, instead of
abusing loopholes in GPL.
------
fein
The reasons cited in the article are exactly why I release software under
wtfpl using a moniker.
Any of my code that I deem worthy of ridicule by the software community should
be as easy to use and modify as possible. The only way that I've found for the
purist in me to be satisfied is to allow complete freedom in the usage of code
that I produce.
------
mhogomchungu
As a copyright owner of source code,its important to know there are two kind
of users of your code,"end users" and "distributors".
Any person who get the restrictions of the GPL is,by definition,"a
distributor" and GPL does not exist to protect and serve their interests and
that is why "distributors" complain about it.
If you are primary customer is "end users",then GPL is the right license for
you,if your primary customer is "distributors",then BSD type of a license is a
proper license.There is a reason why both licenses exist,they serve different
purposes.
You changing from GPL to BSD type license could be an indication of you
changing who your primary audience is.
------
t_hozumi
What I don't like about GPL is that nobody can define "link" without
implementation detail.
I think there is no difference between linked modules and modules which are
connected by TCP/IP.
~~~
dalke
While you may think so, GPL is based on copyright, and it's what the copyright
law and courts say which count. Linked modules contain code covered under
copyright and hence is regulated by the GPL. A connection via TCP/IP does not.
It would be odd indeed to connect to Facebook's web site via TCP/IP, and claim
that the Facebook system and my TCP client code are all part of one system, so
Facebook has violated my copyright.
~~~
jcr
If you're curious about the legal side of linking in non-C languages, the
following legal analysis of the LLGPL (Lisp Lesser GNU Public License) is an
interesting read:
<http://www.ifosslr.org/ifosslr/article/view/75/146>
------
profquail
There was an good discussion on this topic earlier today, but somehow it
disappeared from the front page of HN:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5580972>
------
mehrzad
I learned not much new from this. People have made this claim for years. The
author isn't some visionary for figuring this out, and I assume he doesn't
think he is. The point about financial benefit was interesting, however.
~~~
jkldotio
> People have made this claim for years.
Indeed, and this was published in the Linux Journal in 2002. It is an old
boring argument, it even includes the words "I'm not just trying to start a
holy war here", echoing the famous cut and paste Slashdot troll. Georgecmu,
who has over 6500 karma and who's been here quite a few years, knows exactly
what he's doing: trolling (and I have flagged this submission as it's so
obvious).
The Free Software Foundation is not half as dogmatic as people think either.
They have released software under MIT, and have a huge list of licences they
consider to be free. Pick the one that works for you.
~~~
icebraining
Stallman himself has advocated for non-copyleft free licenses when he
considered they would increase the total user freedom (particularly, by
helping Ogg take on MP3).
<https://lwn.net/2001/0301/a/rms-ov-license.php3>
------
PaulHoule
People have different viewpoints of what freedom means.
I am not against the GPL but I haven't used it on anything for 11 years and
would be less inclined to use a product if it is GPL and I'm thinking about
modifying it.
------
gillianseed
3\. Offer proprietary licences to companies who wants to use it in a
proprietary product. The x264 devs makes money on their GPL licenced code this
way for example.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: DocuShow to search and read PDFs on mobile - ldenoue
http://docushow.com
======
ldenoue
Working on extracting images, tables and math formulas now...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
DARPA Network Challenge - jballanc
http://networkchallenge.darpa.mil/
======
ivankirigin
They has as well have called this "facebook vs. twitter".
For the former, start a group, and build awareness. Direct the money to a
cause. Use the iphone app to post and get updates.
For twitter, post to and follow a hashtag. At least 50% of your human labor
will need to be dedicated to filtering spam if the tag starts to trend.
Definitely search on either to get random people on board
[http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=srp&sfxp=&q=red...](http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=srp&sfxp=&q=red+balloon&gl=1&lo=en_US&sp=7)
------
tlb
How big a fleet of drone aircraft would you need search the US in a couple
hours? It'd be tens of thousands, but it might be doable for a few million
bucks. I think you could fly pretty high and use large telephoto lenses and
high-speed video cameras to see red dots while scanning quickly. That'd be a
more interesting project than trying to enlist a lot of volunteer spotters
with iPhone apps.
------
wmf
This sounds tailor-made for an iPhone app. Perhaps Foursquare could award a
badge for finding one of the balloons.
------
jballanc
I'm thinking the best approach might be an intelligent system to scape from
Twitter/Facebook and correlate location words with "What the heck is that big
balloon"-type phrases...would be difficult, but such a system could be really
useful for the next major disaster.
~~~
ErrantX
Id just take the risk and watch for the relevant hash tags rather than
filtering other keywords :)
Besides sounds like they want pretty specific lat/long.
------
MaysonL
Probably the best way to win is to deploy a couple dozen red balloons of your
own...
~~~
NathanKP
That certainly wouldn't be ethical (as it would cause havoc for the other
contestants) and it would be ludicrous (as DARPA would obviously know that
your balloons were fake).
~~~
nl
Putting up another 89 red balloons would be nice anti-war protest.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Luftballons> :)
Also, making the contest more hostile would arguably be very ethical given
that DARPA are funding it. It would presumably provide a better research
outcome if the winning method had to deal with bad actors.
It wouldn't be ludicrous, because it would force your competitors to deal with
the problem of fake balloon, presumably increasing your chances of winning
(assuming you have some method for determining what is a real balloon and what
is a fake one)
------
RedBalloon
There are a variety of different ways to try to win this competition but I'm
sure most of them leverage, in one way or another, having as many people as
possible know about the competition. Everyone should help spread the word!
We're trying to do that on Facebook and on our website:
<http://www.redballoonrace.com>
Check us out and shoot me an email! Tell me what you think!
------
nl
Here's a good interview question: The required accuracy is 1 arc minute, which
is approximately 1.86 kms. The area of the continental United States is
approximately 8080464 sq. km.
How many entries do you need to submit to guarantee one will contain the
correct answer?
Supplementary question for extra credit: Let the correct answer above be X.
Suggest a solution for finding the earliest correct answer from 10X entries.
:)
------
tybris
a.k.a. the biggest prisoner's dilemma competition yet.
------
ispyaredballoon
We've got a strong team that's going to give all the money to charity (Red
Cross). If you'd like to help, report your balloon sightings to
<http://www.ispyaredballoon.com/> or at facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201028633372>
------
memetichazard
From the rules.
Eligibility: The DARPA Network Challenge is open to individuals of all ages
irrespective of nationality or residency.
Prizes: The winner must provide a U.S. taxpayer identification number (e.g. a
social security number) to receive the cash prize.
So you can participate no matter who or where you are, but you can only win
the prize if you live(d) in the US?
~~~
gloob
Given that the balloons are in the US, I'm not sure that's much of a
restriction.
~~~
the_real_r2d2
Not necessary. If you assume that people is going to spread the news in
twitter (or blogs, facebook, etc.) when they find a balloon, the locations is
not a restriction. You just need a smart enough engine to search and find
those tweets. Now, the "smart engine technology" is the difficult task (and
for sure what DARPA is looking for).
------
XenonofArcticus
My team, DeciNena, will win because we have the best technology, the coolest
name, and are cupcake-free.
We are even offering to share some of the prize money with participating team
members who don't find a balloon themselves!
<http://decinena.com>
------
TrevorJ
An HN team anyone? I'd be interested to see how far our skills could take us.
------
protomyth
So, if it is known someone will pay $X per photo with embedded GPS coordinates
taken from under the ballon, then aren't we talking about how close to $4,000
a central gatherer is willing to go?
------
labria
I don't get it. Do you submit results once, or you can resubmit? Makes a lot
of difference!
------
jpwagner
now THAT is a cool competition
------
mjgoins
Help the best-funded and least accountable military on the globe with some
free intelligence work. How exciting.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Angular 8.0 Is Out - MordodeMaru
https://blog.ninja-squad.com/2019/05/29/what-is-new-angular-8.0/
======
Yuioup
Crickets
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Europe has good reasons to fear Google - r0m4n0
http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/28/7301681/europe-is-right-to-fear-google
======
duckingtest
How could EU enforce the break? Google doesn't need branches in EU to exist.
It could do all business with EU customers via Switzerland. Sure, no more
Google jobs in EU, but that's surely a better outcome than being forced to
split?
It could only work if EU pushed a law forcing all ISPs to block all requests
to google, but that's never going to happen.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Pyramid-Like Shape of Linux Authorship - hjs2
https://medium.com/@aserg.ufmg/who-are-the-authors-of-the-linux-kernel-f4a0b286512e
======
I_am_neo
fork, or stop whining
~~~
gus_massa
For me it looks like an analysis, I don't see any whining.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Did Amazon Make a Phone? A Conversation With Jeff Bezos - 127001brewer
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/why-did-amazon-make-a-phone-a-conversation-with-jeff-bezos/
======
napoleoncomplex
My expectation and the expectation of my social circle was that Amazon is
going to come out with some crazy pricing, subsidizing the phone with future
purchases, and offering a 99$ phone, no contract.
All of the tech is neat, but the reaction is more "cool gimmick", not "must
have feature". And at that price, "cool gimmick" is not a phone seller.
Samsung can pull that off because they pour an insane amount of money into
marketing, and have spent years developing the brand to this point. To price
yourself at that level, with no market share, competing with gimmicks, seems
insane.
The next big winner in market share is going to be someone like Motorola,
cheap, great and simple phones, not a new Samsung.
~~~
josefresco
Samsung didn't win due to their extensive marketing. They released a viable
contender to the iPhone, and then went about improving it for 5+ generations.
Success brought in more money for marketing, but they did it right in the
first place and kept iterating. See HTC as an example of a company with a good
initial phone and marketing budget but who couldn't keep up and fell behind.
~~~
MBCook
Samsung spends an ENORMOUS amount of money on marketing compared to Apple.
Here's a graph from about two years ago:
[https://twitter.com/asymco/status/396253597551570944](https://twitter.com/asymco/status/396253597551570944)
------
bluthru
The Amazon brand is all over the place for me.
Great products: Kindle, Fire TV.
Cheap product: Kindle Fire.
Costly product: Fire Phone.
I guess when I see a phone like this with a big Amazon logo on the back:
[http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business/HT_bgr_amazon_smartphon...](http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business/HT_bgr_amazon_smartphone_sk_140618_4x3_992.jpg)
I assume it's like a Kindle Fire in that it's a cheap option, but it's not at
all, which is confusing. Does Bezos want to make the Amazon brand more
valuable? Will consumers really view this device as a peer to the iPhone 5s/6
and Galaxy S5?
~~~
higherpurpose
Amazon should stick with "affordable", and win money on content. Amazon won
out initially because of affordable prices, too. This "we're just like Apple"
strategy will not work. They should be Xiaomi, not Apple.
------
exhilaration
Interesting that Bezos is actually dogfooding this phone. Compare that to
Facebook's failed attempts at Facebook phone(s) and the "Home" Android effort
-- Zuckerberg never gave up his iPhone. Perhaps that's the clearest way to
tell when a company is really behind a new product: is the CEO using it?
~~~
jacquesm
I'm trying to imagine Jobs using an android phone and that really shows how
absurd it is that Zuckerberg would not use his own company's gear.
------
peterwwillis
_" But that’s not what the phone is about. It has to stand on its own as a
fantastic phone. It even has to make phone calls."_
I chuckled here, but seriously, why do we even call these things 'smartphones'
anymore? The voice calling aspect has been the forgotten feature for years.
I remember getting a cheap Android phone and the whole dialpad UI would freeze
up, or I couldn't answer the damn thing when it rang because the UI was
locking up due to god know's what. Mine still lags, but is fast enough to
react within about 5 seconds of me pressing a "button". Same for clicking on
the voice-command feature.... I hear the audible "ping", and 5 seconds later
the display comes up.
Let's be realistic: all smartphones are basically just handheld tablets whose
radios/SIMs happen to allow access to voice channels.
------
bentcorner
I wonder how Firefly is going to work out. Sure, you can scan an item and buy
it on Amazon, which is advertised as taking impulse buying to the next level,
but what I'm wondering is that if you're standing there, in the store, what
could be more impulse buying that just buying the thing _right there_ in the
store?
~~~
timbre
I've been assuming the use case is that you're _not_ in a store. The world is
Amazon's showroom.
~~~
weavie
Or you are in the store, you see something you like, you point your phone at
the item, press a button and buy it from Amazon.
------
ghobs91
I think making firefly part of the Amazon app, or even as a standalone app,
would have more effectively accomplished their "impulse buying" task.
Asking people to switch to a phone with inferior app selection and a clunky UI
in order to be immersed in the Amazon experience seems a bit short sighted to
me.
High end specs have become a commodity, the top priority the average user has
when buying a smartphone is whether it has the apps they use. Try convincing a
friend of yours to switch to Windows Phone, and the first thing they'll ask is
"does it have x+y apps?" Ecosystem is everything.
------
wil421
Just because you are a tech company doesnt mean you have to make a phone.
Whatever happened to that facebook phone?
Or the IBM phone:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon)
------
plg
handheld vending machine
------
franciscomello
I think Amazon is slowly taking a very significant place in this market that
previously was dominated by Apple. I myself now have 2 Kindles at home, and a
fire TV. Would definitely give the phone a try if my IPhone wasn't new. And
he's doing it without buzz..
------
Epicawesomehn
Here's why Amazon nsde a pho e: 1\. To make consumers a part of the Amazon
Ecosystem. 2\. To make it easiertfor existing users to access the Amazon
Ecosystem. 3\. To entice Prime User 4\. To make it easier to buy anything and
everything using Firefly.
~~~
free2rhyme214
It's obvious why Amazon made a phone. Profit. People visit Amazon. Amazon has
millions of customers. Sell them something else and Amazon makes even more
money.
Amazon isn't trying to make the best product in the world but I'm not gonna
lie, the Kindle Fire newest version is pretty good compared to the first
models.
To finish my statement, Amazon is sucking up revenue wherever possible. They
aren't trying to win the smartphone race but just trying to get a piece of the
pie. It's smart and profitable.
------
segmondy
Amazon made a phone because it has become a big company with no vision. Making
tablets was in, so they made one, making phone is in, they are making one.
Maybe in 5 years, making your own VR headset will be in and they will make one
as well.
~~~
jacquesm
You can accuse amazon of a lot but not having vision is something I'd be very
careful with.
Kindle, AWS and a whole pile of other things were quite the gamble when the
launched them.
~~~
josefresco
Agreed, if anything they have better longer-term vision and discipline than
any of the large tech entities. What seems like an also-ran product now will
most likely turn out to be a no-brainer in 5-10 years (not quarters)
------
sanowski
Laughable! what is the cost of 16GB these days? Stopped reading after that
answer, but keep going if you like advertorials.
Q. I was surprised that you weren’t competing on price so aggressively. This
is essentially the same price as rival devices.
A. Well, it’s 32 gigabytes instead of 16, which is a big deal.....
~~~
gdilla
Cost has nothing to do with price. It's all about customer perception and
their willingness to pay. Handbags cost very little to make, but some are
priced at $800 and some are $8.
16GB more on an iphone 5 is $100 more _in price_. That is the choice given to
the customer.
~~~
sanowski
My point is that knowing Amazon's business model, It's surprising they are
openly playing the margin game on this device and bleeding the buyer vs.
recouping that $100 in Amazon purchases.
~~~
bitJericho
I think it's much more likely that Amazon chose this price so that users
didn't think it was a piece of junk.
Users are used to paying 600 for a phone. A 100 dollar Android phone works
like shit. Add to that, if they priced it well below market value, then third
parties would come in, buy up all the phones and stick them on ebay.
~~~
gdilla
Right. They want the perception of it to be a best in class smartphone.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Are job postings acceptable? - clintavo
I always thought that posting job openings would not be acceptable on HN.<p>However there was one recently posted at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=476495 and nobody commented that the post was unacceptable.<p>I ask because I do from time to time have contract work available, but, on the other hand, we certainly don't want HN to turn into a jobs board.<p>Forgive me if I missed them (I did look) but are there any guidelines regarding posting jobs on HN?
======
yan
"we certainly don't want HN to turn into a jobs board."
Why not? I mean we sure don't want to mix it with the primary news.yc content,
but why not form a sister-board for jobs? And not just YC-funded startups
looking for people, but an actual job board. We have the right kind of people
here on both sides of the job-searching scenario.
~~~
clintavo
I agree with you yan. That's what I meant to not turn the news.yc into jobs a
sister board would be great.
------
pg
There are no official guidelines. YC startups get to post on the jobs page.
We're going to let other startups post on the jobs page soon via startuply.
~~~
clintavo
That sounds great, I was wondering if YC had an open jobs page....only problem
is I've been operating since 2001 and profitable since 2005....am I still a
"startup?" I'm the slowest startup in history.....
------
pclark
I see no problem with them, no promises your job posting won't get critiqued
by lots of users though ;)
------
noodle
i think that if you have a compelling offer, post it. especially if you're
looking for co-founders or lead developers.
if you're soliciting for data entry people every few days, no thanks.
might be nice if it were self-policed and tagged like the ask hn stuff is.
~~~
clintavo
Wouldn't be co-founder since my company is 8 years old but it would be real
development, not data entry BS.
~~~
noodle
i suppose my point is, if you know the community, you'll know what fits. if it
fits, i don't think anyone would mind.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ArchLinux, Not Just For The Elite - Nic0
http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2011/11/06/archlinux-notforthe-elite/
======
sunkencity
I like arch, except for the stupid command line arguments to pacman. I wish
they had just kept it more standard. There's nothing wrong with naming
"install" install and "search" search. Feels to me like a case of inventing
complexity just to make it feel a little more elitist.
pacman -Ss gnome # searches for gnome
pacman -S gnome # installs gnome
~~~
johanbev
That's just how CLI apps work, there is nothing elitist about it. Its "cd" and
"ls -la" and "cat", not "change-directory," "list-directory long-format
everything" and so on. The learning curve might be steep, but it's well worth
it, especially for those of us who "live" in a shell.
In the particular case of pacman, I really like the design of the arguments,
in particular the top level ones. -S is for syncing, -R is for removing, and
-Q is for querying and so on. Nice!
~~~
211231321
Yes, but why rename install to syncing and search to query? Why not just call
it install and make it -i for install and -s for search which is still search.
I think that is what the OP is trying to say.
~~~
johanbev
Searching isn't the same as querying. -Q is for operations dealing on the
_local_ repository. -S synchronizes your local repository with the remote
repository. In a way installing could very well be -Si (-S --install), but
installing is the default action in -S mode instead. Pacman is maybe somewhat
idiosyncratic, but I find it very useful and simple once you get the basics.
~~~
211231321
Oh, i used it. Found it delightful, actually I am yet to encounter a very bad
package management system. They are all really good since I started using
linux.
------
udp
It's pretty stupid, but the only problem I have with using something like Arch
on my desktop is I can _never_ seem to get the fonts to look nice (ie. like
they do in OS X or Ubuntu) when I've installed/configured Xorg myself.
~~~
yule
That is quite a normal concern. Fortunately, the Archlinux wiki has good info
on how to configure fonts:
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Font_Configuration#Ubun...](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Font_Configuration#Ubuntu)
(that link leads to the section about Ubuntu-patched packages, but the whole
page is a good read).
If you use Archlinux, make sure you use the wiki and bbs to their full power.
Most of the problems you think of have been solved in a way or another. It
usually just requires installing some packages, which is a breeze.
~~~
mithaler
I use the Ubuntu patchset. The difference between that and stock fontconfig is
night-and-day; installing it is a constant reminder that for all the
controversial moves Canonical has made in recent months, making Linux fonts
_not look like ass_ was one thing they did about as well as they possibly
could have.
------
jcurbo
I don't use Arch personally, but I have found that every time I've looked for
documentation on something lately (like setting up xmonad), I would be
directed to the Arch wiki and forums quite a bit. They seem to have a good
community going on over there.
~~~
jgn
The community is amazing. The forums are a wealth of information, and I've
tracked down almost every single bug just by searching. The wiki is updated
regularly and is just as rich.
In my experience Arch users are very happy and proud to be running such a
powerful, flexible system, and they give back by helping others. I ran
Slackware for a year, then messed around with Mint before trying Arch. I can't
see myself trying anything else -- except maybe LFS ;).
------
zalew
"Arch Linux is a very fun and stable distribution that successfully blends the
bleeding edge, stability and hackability of Linux"
let's define 'stable' <http://www.tuxtips.org/?cat=3>
~~~
taudelta
I would say it has a bit of both kinds.
~~~
sirclueless
Anecdotally, ArchLinux has bitten me before with its rolling releases. They
moved the hostname utility to a new package, but pacman (their package
manager) didn't prompt or download the new package. This promptly broke my
laptop's network stack right before I left for a weekend trip. Now I didn't
have internet, and I didn't have internet to find out how to fix my internet.
It all worked out fine by writing a bash script named hostname sitting on my
path that echoed a constant string, so I could connect and download the new
package.
If you are looking for a pain-free linux system, Arch Linux isn't it. You will
run into little things like this, living one step behind the bleeding edge
(basically someone compiles your software for you, does a sanity check, then
you get it ASAP). Don't get me wrong, I love it, and will continue to use it
as long as it has the most flexible and clean system, because I appreciate
their dedication to simplicity of implementation.
~~~
lftl
I ran Debian unstable on my desktop for a number of years and the experience
sounds pretty comparable. For the most part I just got working bleeding edge
packages with minor quality control. Occasionally you would get some breakage
(which was usually mentioned in apt-listbugs before upgrade anyway), and the
nice thing about debian was I could either pin the package to the current more
stable version, or if I had already upgraded I could just grab the previous
package off of the debian snapshot mirrors.
~~~
taudelta
I would argue that yes, debian unstable and arch are both rolling release
distros, so the experience will be sort of similar, but I think that's where
the similarities end.
Arch on one hand has a large user base (everyone) using the rolling release
packages, this means that bugs get quickly found and squashed. There is also a
testing repository which is used for the "base packages" so major bugs don't
get get past into the "stable" repos. For example, kernel 3.1 is still in
testing because of some problems that the testers experienced.
On the other hand, debian unstable has bitten me more than once very hard. So
from my experience, it feels like debian does very little if any Q&A on debian
unstable. I would compare Arch to Debian testing more since by then, packages
have had some time to test and mature.
That said, I've experienced less crashs on arch than on any distro. Mind you I
actually read the news. I honestly can't even remember the last time I've had
a crash on archlinux.. maybe several years ago with some kernel update.
------
morazow
Tried to install it last week, almost everything was done until GUI. Could not
make to install & configure one of window managers.
~~~
RexRollman
What window manager are you talking about? And when you say install &
configure, are you talking about compiling from source or installing via
Pacman?
I only ask because I have never had a problem with a window manager on Arch.
------
lbolla
Google cached version:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KJXbNFy...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KJXbNFyM7jwJ:standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2011/11/06/archlinux-
notforthe-
elite/+http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2011/11/06/archlinux-
notforthe-elite/&hl=en&gl=uk&strip=1)
------
ktf
I used Arch for a while, and really loved it... in theory. In practice,
updates would often break things, especially when those updates were x.org-
related.
Using Arch also really made me appreciate all the work Ubuntu does to make a
desktop that isn't ugly. I found myself installing Ubuntu-patched versions of
many Arch packages just to get things like a decent notification system and
non-ugly fonts. (And even then, OpenOffice fonts never did work correctly.)
I was raised on Slackware, so I'm no stranger to DIY-style Linux, but these
days I'm happy to install Ubuntu and have a working, decent-looking desktop
system in 20-30 minutes.
That said, if I was looking to build a minimalist dev box or something other
than a general desktop system, I wouldn't hesitate to install Arch.
------
codabrink
>The installation process may take a while (several hours.. or less)
It depends on what you're talking about. With relatively fast internet (I have
20Mb/s), I can have a functional box up with my favorite DE in just an hour or
so. It's true that I configure things here and there for the next couple days
as I need them, and each configuration is simple and only takes a second or
two, but several hours seems a lot longer than the average install to me.
~~~
yule
Two things helped me a lot with my Archlinux installation:
1) I previously tried in a virtual machine 2) I had a second machine next to
mine to look up stuff in the wiki and follow the installation guide.
~~~
sirclueless
I agree. Arch Linux configuration is educational and well worth the few hours
it takes on your first try, but you should definitely have another computer
with the wiki open while you do it.
------
jiggy2011
Am I right in thinking that Arch is the new Gentoo?
~~~
Nic0
Gentoo spirit, without long compiling time.
~~~
itsnotvalid
I remembered my first time trying gentoo took some 12 hours to compile KDE...
Well that was really long time ago.
------
CrystalBlood
[..] Arch Linux is a very fun and stable distribution that successfully blends
the bleeding edge, stability and hackability of Linux. Don’t be fooled by the
rumours saying it’s for the elite. [..]
Agree! I have been using it for almost a year and the most atractive thing is
the rolling release update. I don't have to worry about upgrading the whole
system like others distros.
------
exo-terrestrial
Arch taught me a lot about my computer. I use a libre/Free Software
distribution of it, Parabola GNU/linux-libre.
------
Tichy
"almost as easy than Ubuntu or any other distribution"
But if Ubuntu is easier, why not use Ubuntu?
~~~
Nic0
nano is easier than vim to use, so why everyone bother to learn vim then ?
Ease to use is not the only thing mater for everyone, and having something
powerful, more customizable, more understandable, those kind of things mater
to some persons.
~~~
Tichy
You know, my question was serious. There are several reasons for using vim,
like maybe you can edit faster if you know the commands, there are more
plugins and so on. So if my question had been "why use vim instead of nano",
there would have been possible reasonable answers.
But what is the advantage of Arch over Ubuntu? They are both Linux... My
question was serious, I really don't know why I should prefer Arch.
~~~
Nic0
My answer was almost serious as well, and was answering the question "why not
use Ubuntu if it's easier" and not "what is the advantage of Arch over
Ubuntu?". They are two different questions.
Your question, now, is a much more open one, then more difficult to answer.
This page try to explain the Arch Way
<https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way>
I wrote something that tried to explain why AUR is an important part of Arch
Linux [http://www.nicosphere.net/why-aur-is-part-of-the-arch-
linux-...](http://www.nicosphere.net/why-aur-is-part-of-the-arch-linux-
success-2529/)
~~~
Tichy
I thought my question was kind of the same. If there is no advantage of Arch,
then it doesn't make sense to use it if it is harder to use. Unless you want
to work on improving Arch.
~~~
Nic0
You're right, if Arch would not have some advantages, nobody would use it.
Simplicity of use, packaging, configuration, understanding. No default choices
as Unity, it's light and fast, a great distro to learn from, great community
and documentation, and much more, that make Arch a great distribution widely
used.
~~~
Tichy
If packaging really is easier, it might be interesting. It seems to be quite
complicated to create debian packages.
------
swasheck
that's it ... i'm moving to gentoo.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Puppet vs. Ansible - emersonrsantos
https://www.devopsgroup.com/2018/01/10/puppet-vs-ansible/
======
sarcasmatwork
Puppet has an agent, Ansible does not. Ansible is far better imho. I dont
want/need another 'agent' to have to install/manage etc.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Postgres Notify for cache busting and more - spindritf
http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/postgres_external_triggers.html
======
pilif
A couple of notes: First, be mindful that postgres connections are comparably
expensive memory-wise and a connection where you use LISTEN on can't be used
for anything else. This might or might not be a problem for you (it won't if
you have exactly one job using LISTEN, it will if every one of your frontend
connection uses LISTEN).
Second, it's my experience that you will never be able to correctly deal with
caches if you are trying to clean them. The reason is that when you rely on
cleaning out caches, then, whenever you do a write to your database, you have
to think what caches might be depending on your write and you'll have to
remember to fire events accordingly.
It's much easier if you generate some kind of key or tag based on the
information you want to cache and then just look up the value based on the key
- like what you'd do with memcache. If your dependencies change, your cache
key will change and you will fetch the data again.
This of course has the tendency of being more expensive when reading (because
you have to calculate the cache key), but it also has the tendency of being
correct with a much greater likelyhood - at least that's the experience I made
so far. Of course, YMMV and the increased cost might deter you from going this
way.
~~~
wulczer
Why can't you use a connection that has issued LISTEN for anything else? In
fact, I'm fairly sure you _can_ use it normally.
We're using NOTIFY to broadcast database changes to services that should react
to them and it's quite a nice way to separate concerns: process A just writes
to the database, a trigger issues a NOTIFY, process B checks and notices
there's been a change.
Edit: I see, the code in the post suggests that the connection needs to be
stuck in a select() (I should know, I contributed a largre chunk of psycopg2's
async code handling). You just need to use an asynchronous driver and you can
happily LISTEN and do queries at the same time (of course you won't get
notifies while a query is processing - the Postgres protocol has no concept of
multiplexing).
We're using Twisted and happily mixing queries and NOTIFY.
~~~
pilif
It looks like you're right. This was/is a limitation of the node.js postgres
adapter I was using.
~~~
troyk
We use node-postgres and this is not the case. I think node-postgres has one
of the cleanest implementations of LISTEN due to nodejs event callbacks
------
polskibus
Reminds me of .NET's SqlCacheDependency - very useful for cache invalidation,
it's been around for while.
See [http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ms178604.ASPX](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/ms178604.ASPX) for details if you are interested.
~~~
keithwarren
Yeah, I saw that and got a good laugh because SQL Server has done that for
nearly a decade.
~~~
masklinn
listen/notify was available in postgres 7.1 (and may well have predated it):
[http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.1/static/sql-
listen.html](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.1/static/sql-listen.html)
7.1 was released in 2001.
edit: digging further, I found this:
Bug fixes:
[...]
* the LISTEN/NOTIFY asynchronous notification mechanism now work
that's in the change list for Postgres95 Beta 0.03, released in July 1995:
[http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-0-03.html](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-0-03.html)
------
jenseng
This approach works well when you want to cache data from an existing
integration database and don't have the luxury of rearchitecting the whole
thing.
At my previous job, we had a bunch of systems talking to a single database.
Some were rails, some were not. We wanted to add memcached to the rails apps
via cache-money[1]. That'll handle read-through/write-through caching for
vanilla rails stuff, but we had to somehow invalidate the cache for updates
that happen outside of ActiveRecord::Base#save (e.g. update_all, or a write
from a non-rails system). In the end, we settled upon the same approach[2] as
in the article.
The trigger-backed cache invalidator was also written in ruby, and knew from
rails/cache-money what key(s) needed to be invalidated when it got a
notification. IIRC you didn't need to do anything special when you added a new
cache key (e.g. cache user lookups by username), since the invalidator would
just know what to do.
[1] [https://github.com/nkallen/cache-money](https://github.com/nkallen/cache-
money)
[2] This was actually on 8.4, so unfortunately there was no NOTIFY. Instead, a
plpython trigger would send a message to invalidator (persistent tcp conn per
pg process), but this had the unfortunate consequences of 1. firing before the
commit and 2. firing even in the event of a rollback
~~~
masklinn
> This was actually on 8.4, so unfortunately there was no NOTIFY.
There was actually, listen/notify was available back in 7.1[0][1], maybe
earlier.
No payload until 9.0 though, that would usually be done by storing the payload
in a dedicated table and querying that when receiving a notification.
[0] [http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.1/static/sql-
listen.html](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.1/static/sql-listen.html)
[1] [http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.1/static/sql-
notify.html](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.1/static/sql-notify.html)
edit: found the 6.4 docs, it's there:
[http://www.postgresql.org/docs/6.4/static/sql-
listen.html](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/6.4/static/sql-listen.html)
edit 2: digging in the release notes, LISTEN/NOTIFY was made to work in
Postgres95 Beta 0.03:
[http://www.postgresql.org/docs/6.4/static/release13262.htm](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/6.4/static/release13262.htm)
(and was apparently present in a non-working state in previous versions)
------
sehrope
while (true) {
Statement stmt = conn.createStatement();
ResultSet rs = stmt.executeQuery("SELECT 1");
rs.close();
stmt.close();
org.postgresql.PGNotification notifications[] = pgconn.getNotifications();
handleNotifications(notifications);
Thread.sleep(100);
}
The problem with this approach[1] is there's a 100ms of latency between
polling attempts (the sleep call).
LISTEN/NOTIFY is very useful, particularly the transactional nature and not
requiring any additional tech stack (e.g. no need for a separate MQ server),
but for frequent/high-value/lower latency signalling you're better off using
something that doesn't require sleeping/polling.
[1]: That and the lack of exception handling or resource cleanup.
~~~
yummyfajitas
Unfortunately it isn't correct that you don't need a separate MQ. Postgres DB
connections are not cheap - the best way to use this pattern is to have a
single server listening to PG notifications and publish them to a real MQ.
Also the 100ms of latency is a limitation of JDBC, not of using Postgres. Note
the complete lack of sleeping in the python sample code.
~~~
sehrope
> Unfortunately it isn't correct that you don't need a separate MQ. Postgres
> DB connections are not cheap
That depends on your app size. If you're building something relatively small
then having a few additional DB connections vs a dedicated MQ server can be
worth it (it's really just extra shared memory for the connection). I do agree
though that most folks are better off just using a real MQ server. For
anything larger (both app size and app scale) it ends up being much better.
> ... the best way to use this pattern is to have a single server listening to
> PG notifications and publish them to a real MQ.
Another approach I've been looking at is creating a writable FDW[1] that
bridges to an MQ system. That combined with a PG background worker[2] to
listen for notifications gives you a transactional system that starts/stop
with your database.
[1]:
[http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Foreign_data_wrappers](http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Foreign_data_wrappers)
[2]:
[http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/bgworker.html](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/bgworker.html)
~~~
ibotty
that sounds great. be sure to write about it when you (or someone else)
implements it!
------
philsnow
> "What happens in this case is that the cache is not invalidated. Because the
> transaction had not yet committed, the old version of object 12345 was
> loaded. The cache will now remain out of date until the TTL (if any) has
> passed."
This seems contrived, does anybody actually do this ?
Why wouldn't the app layer re-warm the cache itself, seeing as how it has the
object already in hand ?
Even if the app layer populates the cache, it shouldn't do so before the
transaction is committed.
~~~
ibotty
that might not be so easy. not every cache is something like memcached or
redis. a caching web proxy (like varnish) can't be warmed that easily.
------
lucian1900
SQLAlchemy allows use of post-commit hooks, which achieves pretty much the
same effect, save for the race conditions.
~~~
chrisrhoden
It is protected from the same race conditions that this apparently protects
you from.
------
grandinj
What with the silly CSS that won't let me browse the site in landscape mode on
my phone? Sigh. Web designers.
------
ris
FTA:
>I recommend RabbitMQ
I recommend anything but.
~~~
dscrd
Explain, please. I'm considering using it.
~~~
ris
Operations and configuration-wise, it is _bonkers_, and massively
overengineered.
~~~
dscrd
Would you agree that there's a demand for a simple and reliable MQ? Possibly
one that just supports Stomp, possibly written in Golang? That just works and
does nothing fancy?
~~~
ris
I've actually been using redis pubsub, which is fine for my needs and dead
simple.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The most powerful motivator for an early employee at a startup - rpsubhub
http://www.quora.com/What-motivates-an-early-employee-to-work-in-a-startup/answer/Edmond-Lau
======
spitfire
"At Quora, I (and many others) typically work 60 or more hours per week; other
startups I've talked to often expect similar (and sometimes even more
grueling) schedules."
I don't want to work at Quora. No matter how motivated, how engaged and how
excited I am to do something I know what lack of balance does to your life. I
consider myself successful only if I have that balance.
No matter how rich or "successful" someone is I think of them as a failure if
they don't have the things that come with a balanced life.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cyborg artist has an implanted "antenna" that allows him to hear colors - mathewi
http://gigaom.com/2014/05/30/what-does-the-color-orange-sound-like-cyborg-artist-neil-harbisson-knows-thanks-to-his-antenna-implant/
======
adamboulanger
I'm not sure why the implant is relevant. His hearing is intact. It's not
going to be projecting into midbrain audio centers. Is it just under the skin
bone conductance to leave his ears free?
~~~
mathewi
Yes -- that's my understanding of it. Bone conduction is better, he said, and
less cumbersome.
~~~
adamboulanger
It also gets you soundbyte statements like "chip in your head" when in fact
it's a fairly mundane technology that need not necessarily be implanted to
have the same effect. You could hand his system to anyone and we could all
have this extra-sensory experience. The article is strongly written from with
the perspective that this is exclusive.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Swift Intermediate Language Ownership Model Proposal - pjmlp
https://forums.swift.org/t/sil-ownership-model-proposal-refreshed/16872
======
jernfrost
I am only vaguely familiar with Rust ownership model and last I programmed
Swift was version 3.x.
Does anyone have any thoughts on where Swift is going with ownership models in
relation to Rust? What sort of different priorities will these languages set?
It has been my impression that Rust seeks to be more of a tool for the more
experienced programmer while Swift attempts to be more user friendly or appeal
more to the average programmer.
I would thus speculate that Swift team will never try to force Swift users to
understand ownership models the way Rust developers have to. What do you
think? Where can we expect this to be going?
~~~
wool_gather
> It has been my impression that [...] Swift attempts to be more user friendly
> or appeal more to the average programmer
I would dispute this somewhat. I really think Swift was conceived to be a
better C++. The stated "world domination" goal has always included systems
programming. (I don't find it realistic personally that a single language can
reasonably span from writing an OS to utility scripting, but that's been the
pitch.) I would guess that, privately at least, Swift sees Rust as a
competitor.
That said, the Swift core team _does_ take learnability and what they call
"progressive disclosure" seriously. They've emphasized that this particular
feature should be something that most Swift users won't need to know or think
about. They definitely do spend time and effort on people who are new to the
language.
The other thing that may contribute to the impression that Swift is "less
advanced" is simply its userbase. Its life started in GUI application
development for Apple platforms and that's also key to its success -- iOS is
hot right now. That's the majority of its deployment, and I think it will
remain so for quite a while.
We iOS devs may be average or not, but _most_ of the code we write is not
high-performance mission-critical algorithm-laden wizardry, just grabbing some
JSON off a REST endpoint and animating the information into a table view. ;)
~~~
pjmlp
Well, this is Apple's official point of view on Swift's purpose.
> Swift is a successor to both the C and Objective-C languages. It includes
> low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators. It also
> provides object-oriented features such as classes, protocols, and generics,
> giving Cocoa and Cocoa Touch developers the performance and power they
> demand.
Taken from
[https://developer.apple.com/swift/](https://developer.apple.com/swift/)
> Swift is intended as a replacement for C-based languages (C, C++, and
> Objective-C).
Taken from [https://swift.org/about/](https://swift.org/about/)
~~~
wool_gather
Yes, good point, thanks. But this is not quite what I was intending to say.
The _character_ of Swift is not very C- or ObjC-like. C's philosophy is
largely (to borrow from Python) "we are all consenting adults here": raw
flexibility is the name of the game. ObjC's class system is famously late-
binding and runtime-malleable, and it carries all the flexibility of C. These
are things that Swift eschews.
------
breatheoften
Is the approach here effectively about extracting from the (existing)
implementation a kind of operational specification to help ensure the non-
existence of undefined behavior ...?
~~~
pjmlp
Not, it is a means to better support the ownership model, similar to Rust,
that was introduced in Swift 4.0.
~~~
jchb
But note that the full ownership model is not exposed in Swift. It is only
present in the Swift Intermediate Language (1) - an intermediate language used
by the Swift compiler to perform diagnostics and Swift-semantic aware
optimisations before emitting LLVM IR bit code.
It is likely that more ownership features will be added to the Swift language,
but it is out of scope for the next major version as you can see on this
dashboard: [https://swift.org/abi-stability/](https://swift.org/abi-
stability/)
(1)
[https://github.com/apple/swift/blob/master/docs/SIL.rst](https://github.com/apple/swift/blob/master/docs/SIL.rst)
~~~
oscargrouch
My guess is that they will make this explicit in SIL first, to be able to add
that into the language syntax later.
For instance, as far as i know, the auto ref-counting model is on SIL, who
injects lower level refcounting ops into the intermediate code, before going
through the LLVM pipeline.
This was a good thing to do, now that they are willing to open the ownership
model to other kinds of ownership. Which will probably be controlled by the
dev in the end.
At least, that's what i understood from what i read. Its SIL only for now, but
it means what is it implying it means. A opt-in manually controlled ownership
model when ref-counting is not the best approach.
------
thanatropism
The acronym is S.I.L.O.?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
JEP 357: Migrate from Mercurial to Git - based2
https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/357
======
based2
[https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cdkzk0/jep_357...](https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cdkzk0/jep_357_migrate_the_jdk_from_mercurial_to_git/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Physics: Places To Be, Places To Avoid - jonbaer
http://www.science20.com/hammock_physicist/physics_places_be_places_avoid-118214
======
vixen99
"I don't want to turn this blog post in a name-and-shame list of physics
departments". Why not? What is more important, keeping quiet about negative
performance or ensuring that students get the information they need to make
that very critical usually one-time only decision as to the university for
their further training?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
For Linux, Supercomputers R Us - rbanffy
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2960701/linux/for-linux-supercomputers-r-us.html
======
melling
Hasn't Linux dominated supercomputers for at least a decade? The only place
they don't have significant market share is on the desktop. Now we need
Chromebooks to take off or for someone to add the extra polish and support
needed to win over consumers.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
North Korea Government website costs only $15 - sonic0002
http://pixelstech.net/article/index.php?id=1334900614
======
kaolinite
Good for them! I'd much rather that than the budgets that the UK (and other)
governments blow on websites which often aren't too complex at all.
------
jonursenbach
Should link to the source instead of blogspam.
<http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/04/north-korea-website/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Google Should Learn to Love Black Hat SEO - grovulent
http://danielhaggard.com/157/why-google-should-learn-to-love-black-hat-seo/
======
lazylland
One of the cool things that Google provided during their SearchWiki experiment
was the [x] button. An option to remove a site from further search results.
This could easily give some power back to the users to not get hassled by such
spammy site, as well as give Google some inputs to take action against such
sites.
Bring the [x] button back, Google :)
------
sorbus
The author seems to have missed the core argument about spam websites: They
reduce the quality of search results and therefor devalue google and other
search engines as a way to find information.
~~~
grovulent
Not sure I understand your complaint. The idea is that these sites get de-
indexed after the grace period. (i.e. they will no longer show up in the
search results).
~~~
sorbus
During the grace period they would be decreasing result quality. I don't care
if all the junk cluttering up my searches will be gone in a few months,
because I'm not going to wait a few months to try to find the information I'm
looking for.
Allowing money to influence rankings (selling "mappings" is basically selling
pagerank) would also potentially decrease quality; I am much, much more
inclined to having websites ranked only by their quality and the quality of
information in them, which is the way search should work anyways.
Oh, and a way that this could be broken: One person wants to be at the top of
the results for a single, fairly common, search term. They start a bunch of
"funnel" sites (hundreds, maybe), and manage to get most of them into the top
~40 pages[1] for that search term. Then, in the marketplace you've proposed,
they buy up all of them from themselves, at as low a price as possible. The
resulting increase in pagerank (which they're buying from themselves, so only
paying google for the privilege) pushes them up to the top of the rankings for
that high-value search term.
[1] Random number. Could be higher, could be lower.
~~~
grovulent
With respect to your first point - the idea is that these spam sites are
cluttering up things already anyway. A result which has them de-listed after
three months is better than the current situation. You could possibly find a
way to eliminate the grace period altogether if you could find a way to
demonstrate the value of particular keywords to those who would buy them. All
google would really need to do is release more information about keywords. And
think - they only keep that information guarded now because they want to make
life harder for spammers.
With respect to the second point - again, the answer is to keep incentives
properly aligned with desired outcomes. In this case I suggested that the
price for a mapping be increased if the marketer already has sold to a stable
of quality sites (as determined by other aspects of the PR algo).
With respect to your third point - I agree these sorts of issues will have to
be sorted out. This particular one would be easily avoided though - just place
constraints on how many domains they can register as funnel sites. Yes they
can try to game - but now being caught has a real risk - the loss of their
legitimate income.
But there is no doubting that there will be real difficulties of the sort you
mention. Nevertheless, I think the general gist is good - however the final
form, black hats need to be incentivised to work with the system, not against
it. And this can only be achieved by bringing them into the fold somehow.
~~~
notahacker
pitches to rank perfectly fine for the search queries before the spam sites
push them down the index. The black hat SEO guy therefore isn't adding any
value to the unsophisticated end user he targets at all. Better solution:
anyone pitching SEO services to webmasters on the basis of their competing
sites' higher rankings gets their competing sites booted from the index.
Even if your solution were to miraculously yield better results it would still
create a massive PR problem for Google, who have always purposefully kept paid
and organic search rankings separately. Frankly I'd probably trust an index
that directly sold SERPs rankings more than one that deliberately facilitated
spammers acting as intermediaries.
------
ericd
No, it's not a good idea for Google to let business owners buy these pages to
increase their own ranking - willingness to pay isn't a useful signal for page
relevance.
------
ryanwaggoner
In what sense is putting up a simple website with articles (even poorly
written ones) about topic X, with a domain name and meta tags about topic X,
considered "black hat" SEO?
~~~
grovulent
Because the content clearly isn't designed to add value. It just gets in the
way of what people are actually looking for. Then there is the use to which
these sites are put - which is explained in the article - to extort legitimate
websites that do try to add value.
~~~
duskwuff
The content on those sites is also frequently scraped from other, more
legitimate sites. Next time you see a Wordpress spamblog, try doing a (quoted)
Google search for some of the post content.
Another tactic I've seen, simpler than the one described in the linked
article, has simply been to link to a target site from all of the SEOer's
content-scraping blogs. The core principle of what makes this all black-hat
SEO is the same, though: they're building sites with the intent to manipulate
search engine rankings, rather than sites which anyone would want to visit.
~~~
grovulent
True - this one wasn't though. It was content created by cheap labour. Scraped
websites are less of a concern because they are easier to detect
algorithmically. Mind you Google doesn't seem to have entirely solved this
problem either.
------
joecoleman
Google is already in the process of doing this. It's their company, they have
access to all the data, why would they need individuals to ferret out
underdeveloped keywords for them?
See recent patent: [http://www.itproportal.com/2010/6/17/google-patent-looks-
eme...](http://www.itproportal.com/2010/6/17/google-patent-looks-emerging-
trends-web/)
------
richcollins
_They should make it a central pillar of their entire strategy_
Judging by the recently quality of their results, they already have
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Peak detection in a 2D array - wheaties
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3684484/peak-detection-in-a-2d-array
======
axiom
I don't think there's a good solution to this problem without incorporating
some kind of prior distribution, and a statistical model of what paws tend to
look like. Heuristics will only take you so far.
edit: come to think of it, something like mean-shift or ICP would probably do
very well on this.
~~~
strebler
Yes mean shift would do it nicely, heck most clustering methods should give
good results - but I think they will need a paw model of some sort (even if
it's just a basic template) to get up to the 98%+ accuracy levels.
------
RickHull
I am not sure this answers the original question, but it seems like you can
just look for the _n_ highest peaks that don't have neighbors.
<http://gist.github.com/574052>
------
joezydeco
I had a similar problem, but with a QVGA-sized matrix and not just a small
array like this guy.
I used some Numerical Recipes formulas to do a linear interpolation on the
data and upscale it into a larger grid, then used OpenCV to threshold and then
find contours.
It works pretty well, but I wish I could process the data faster. I fear using
this Python example with mapping and overlaps would just run way way longer.
~~~
jules
I'm pretty sure you can compute a contour from the raw data much more
efficiently.
~~~
joezydeco
The problem is that I'm working with a sensor set that's way smaller, like
100x smaller. The peaks can be somewhere in the middle and the only way to
locate those is by running an Nth order interpolation (or maybe doing
something simpler like computing local averages)
------
motters
Interesting problem. The solution I would try is the following.
1\. Apply a low pass filter, such as convolution with a 2D gaussian mask. This
will give you a bunch of (probably, but not necessarily floating point)
values.
2\. Perform a 2D non-maximal suppression using the known approximate radius of
each paw pad (or toe).
This should give you the maximal positions without having multiple candidates
which are close together. Just to clarify, the radius of the mask in step 1
should also be similar to the radius used in step 2. This radius could be
selectable, or the vet could explicitly measure it beforehand (it will vary
with age/breed/etc).
Some of the solutions suggested (mean shift, neural nets, and so on) probably
will work to some degree, but are overly complicated and probably not ideal.
------
mynameishere
Convert it to an elevation model for which there are many tools.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: A live-drawn portrait of the common face - sloev
https://vrangen.net/fuzzy
======
sloev
Author here.
A python program continously draws 22 different faces over each other.
All faces are aligned at the eyes.
The drawing particles have three different behaviors:
1\. Move randomly
2\. Move randomly with 45 degree angles
3\. Move randomly but attracted to the firstborn particle and afraid of being
near the average position of all particles.
Go to
[https://vrangen.net/fuzzy/static/images/debug.jpg](https://vrangen.net/fuzzy/static/images/debug.jpg)
for a picture of the particles in action
Sourcecode available at
[http://github.com/sloev/face_experiments](http://github.com/sloev/face_experiments)
~~~
Exuma
Does the image move in real time or is that my imagination
~~~
sloev
It moves in real time. It is drawn continously by phthon software. Visit the
mentioned
[https://vrangen.net/fuzzy/static/images/debug.jpg](https://vrangen.net/fuzzy/static/images/debug.jpg)
url for a snapshot of how the particle workers are currently moving around
------
adyer07
The ghostly quality of the particle drawing is really nice. I love how it gets
the overlaid effect across but in a nicer way than simple transparency.
How are the particles attracted to the areas of the image that need to be
darker?
~~~
sloev
They are unaware of the underlying image they draw. Each particle is
associated a random picture to draw at birth and continous to draw until
death. Draw means copy a pixel from the source image to the displayed output
image.
Each particle class is defined with a color in the debug.jpg image
------
romaebau
It's really amazing, but the result is a bit spooky. Still, pretty awesome.
~~~
sloev
Yeah very unnerving. It is also nearly as hairy as i am hahaha (long haired
danish dude here)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: RealIdeas.site (submit an idea, get 10 real ones back) - RealIdeas
https://realideas.site/
======
blauditore
Ideas themselves should not be overrated. People often think the main part of
building a successful product is having the right idea, and expect some form
of compensation for submitting a good one. But as a matter of fact, if there
is a problem to solve, many others have probably had similar ideas and the
difference will be made in their implementations.
So the "compensation" of ideas with other ideas like here seems perfectly
reasonable to me and should not be extended or gamified any further.
~~~
hacker_9
Yep, it is the execution of the idea where the money is. Most well known
products are simple to explain / understand, but it was their implementation
and ability to retain users on their platform that make them successful.
------
Animats
Reminds me of the slogan on the trucks of Sunset Scavenger Company, the
predecessor to Recology: "Satisfaction guaranteed or double your garbage
back".
------
fiatjaf
Very cool.
I tried many approaches (although I didn't finish any implementation besides
the first one, the worst) on idea sharing and feedback. This is probably a
little better than the best I've thought in all these years.
Oh, it looks like Wayback Machine has my first attempt at this thing stored:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20130814135339/http://www.ideacra...](http://web.archive.org/web/20130814135339/http://www.ideacraft.us/)
~~~
RealIdeas
Thanks. Yours looks very nice. I've been thinking of allowing comments on the
ideas themselves but I like your approach better (where the comments fall into
different categories).
------
lhnz
Ideas which are 'actionable pieces of intellectual leverage' are actually
massively underrated, and unfortunately grouped alongside mere daydreams.
If you happen to have a collection of design/market/engineering insights that
could actually inform a working solution, you'd be a fool to just dump them
into the public domain as free 'ideas'.
Executing the creation of a factory to produce lightbulbs is comparatively
valueless, compared to inventing the first lightbulb. It's not only easier,
it's also less important to society.
New ideas are actually incredibly important, and they might even be getting
harder to find [0]. As Thiel said in 'Zero to One' [1]: "Every great business
is built around a secret that’s hidden from the outside." Unless you have
incredibly deep pockets or a monopoly, ideas are likely to be the only thing
protecting you from your competition.
As an aside: the money isn't in execution, or in innovative ideas, but in the
creation of economic moats [2].
[0] [http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~chadj/IdeaPF.pdf](http://www-
leland.stanford.edu/~chadj/IdeaPF.pdf)
[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Zero-One-Notes-Startups-
Future/dp/B00...](https://www.amazon.com/Zero-One-Notes-Startups-
Future/dp/B00M284NY2)
[2]
[https://news.morningstar.com/classroom2/course.asp?docId=144...](https://news.morningstar.com/classroom2/course.asp?docId=144046&page=5&CN=)
------
isuckatcoding
Love this. I've been looking everywhere from reddit, twitter, hn to forums for
inspiration for ideas (because I suck at coming up with my own).
I have more ideas about brick / mortar businesses (i.e. buy this thing off
website X, rebrand and sell for Y% to make profit) than I do about SaaS
business (which is my primary interest).
~~~
napsterbr
My advice for you is the usual "find a problem, scratch someone's itches and
work on that ".
------
rolfvandekrol
Just submitted an idea, which i think is pretty good idea, that i'm probably
never going to implement myself, because i usually get lost in yak-shaving
halfway (tried it three times). Let's see what ideas come out of this :)
------
kfk
For me as an all round analytics manager in enterprise there are plenty of
pain points. I am not sure I'd call them ideas, but it would be great to share
those, also to see who else has them.
------
yeshivadan
If someone is interested in using your idea, can you get some credit or
something?
~~~
RealIdeas
I need to add a terms of service. Something like: "All submitted ideas are
free for all members of the site to use and act upon."
Does anyone have an example of such a TOS? One that basically says you
relinquish all rights to the ideas you give on this website.
~~~
icebraining
You don't have to, there are no rights to ideas in the first place.
------
voiceclonr
Neat idea! I think you should allow comments.
~~~
michaelbuckbee
This was my thought as well. That the benefit of sharing the idea is to get
feedback so the idea can be refined.
~~~
RealIdeas
I'll add comments later on. After that I'll develop a system where you get
ideas regularly based on your engagement level on the site.
------
sh87
This is great and positive and all things nice. How about making this more
valuable by somehow connecting me with 10 people who know about this problem
area or have tried or are interested in building a solution to this and more
important : people who are facing this issue and are wanting to try out my
solution to the problems that I am trying to solve ?
To be honest the only thing that will inspire me to build something is seeing
10 real people face real issues that I believe I can solve. Queue Management
for example. Its 2016 (almost 2017) for heaven's sake and I still see people
queuing up at cash registers, coffee shops and department stores alike. That's
what I want to solve. How is 10 new ideas helping me ?
Edit: This unintentionally turned out more like a rant than constructive
criticism. Its just that I have a feeble sense of what I want and this does
not feel like it. Credit to the author for actually building it, putting it up
here and having the courage to be open to feedback.
------
saycheese
If I submit 10 ideas, where are the 100 new ideas going to come from?
Why would someone swap one good idea for ten bad idea?
What do you plan to do with "all" the ideas?
___
Would you post answer to your own questions for your own site? Those being:
What's the problem?
What's the solution?
Why would anyone pay for that?
How would you reach your audience?
Are there other solutions out there?
How is your solution any different?
Will you reject bad ideas?
~~~
RealIdeas
"If I submit 10 ideas, where are the 100 new ideas going to come from?" Same
place as the first 10, from other people's ideas. If you're an idea generating
machine the DB will eventually run out of ideas to give you.
"Why would someone swap one good idea for ten bad idea?" This is answered in
the FAQ. You get 4 from the top rated ones. Chances are if you haven't worked
on your idea by now, you probably won't do it at all. Share your idea and you
might get one or more that you will work on. Even if you don't get an idea you
think it's "good" you might get inspiration from them or put a twist on these.
"What do you plan to do with "all" the ideas?" Same as everyone else who
submits an idea: get inspiration.
"Would you post answer to your own questions for your own site?" I don't
understand the purpose of your question.
~~~
saycheese
The purpose of the question, "Would you post answers for your own site?" \-
being I don't understand and/or would be interested in the answers to the
questions before for RealIdeas.site:
What's the problem?
What's the solution?
Why would anyone pay for that?
How would you reach your audience?
Are there other solutions out there?
How is your solution any different?
~~~
RealIdeas
This is all covered in the FAQ. Problem: no vetting process on similar sites.
Solution: have someone read the ideas. It's free, not meant to make money. I
just posted it on HN. I don't see similar sites with a vetting process out
there.
~~~
saycheese
There are lots of sites that provide lists of vetted ideas, what am I missing?
~~~
panorama
I don't understand the negativity. This is a Show HN. And Show HNs don't have
to be completely original things that have never before appeared on the
Internet.
~~~
saycheese
>> "Are there other solutions out there? How is your solution any different?
Negative? I am only reflecting the questions back at the post/site that
they're asking themselves.
------
hitgeek
anyone interested in this sort of thing should take a look at
[https://nugget.one/](https://nugget.one/)
------
fiatjaf
Maybe you could put the source for this site on GitHub so interested people
could submit buggy PRs with unwanted new features?
------
automatwon
Is there not a "low-tech" solution to this already?
Like an invite-only forum that extends invites to people who share an idea in
the public thread? With increasingly more access as users continue to
contribute ideas that receive positive feedback from their peers?
~~~
fiatjaf
No.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: DIY Position Tracking Using HTC Vive's Lighthouse - ashtuchkin
https://github.com/ashtuchkin/vive-diy-position-sensor
======
ashtuchkin
Hey, author here. I used the system described in the link for indoor
stabilization of a drone, plus precise landing, to support an automatic
battery swap station project (have a video there). Worked pretty well, so I
decided to open-source it in hopes this would help fellow hackers.
Let me know if you have any questions!
~~~
RobertLong
This is awesome!
Curious what your thoughts are on this vs one of the official SteamVR tracking
modules[1] which use the TS3633[2]? For $10 this is an awesome hack for off
the shelf components. However, for $70 + Shipping you can pick up 10 of the
tracking modules which filter out noise and do accurate envelope calculation.
[1]
[https://www.triadsemi.com/product/ts3633-cm1/](https://www.triadsemi.com/product/ts3633-cm1/)
[2]
[https://www.triadsemi.com/product/ts3633/](https://www.triadsemi.com/product/ts3633/)
~~~
ashtuchkin
Thanks! I actually haven't seen those, they look pretty good, basically
replace the custom schematics I needed to build.
The timing calculation still needs to be done somewhere though, I wish there
was a module that would do it internally and just publish the timing numbers -
that would be more scalable and then even Arduino would be able to handle
several sensors.
~~~
moron4hire
From what I understand, the official kit includes software for calibrating a
specific configuration of sensors in fixed relation to each other and figuring
out the timing parameters. Guess I find out for sure tomorrow!
------
fest
Great project! When listening to an interview with Alan Yates[0] (main
designer of the Lighthouse) I was thinking about an application like this.
I recently did shop around for motion capture system (cameras tracking
markers) and one of the cheapest systems with comparable performance to OP's
came out to cost $5-8.5K.
[0] [http://embedded.fm/episodes/162](http://embedded.fm/episodes/162)
~~~
ashtuchkin
That's crazy :)
------
emilburzo
A bit off-topic, but I was wondering:
How was the base station visualization[1] done?
[1]
[https://camo.githubusercontent.com/d9241f231a03d177d215f98bd...](https://camo.githubusercontent.com/d9241f231a03d177d215f98bdb2cdcd8e648ddab/687474703a2f2f692e67697068792e636f6d2f696a4d7a585246334f59425a362e676966)
~~~
jaflo
[https://youtu.be/J54dotTt7k0](https://youtu.be/J54dotTt7k0)
------
thenomad
Fantastic!
Having been developing with the Vive for most of the last year for Left-Hand
Path
([http://store.steampowered.com/app/488760](http://store.steampowered.com/app/488760)),
and given I've got a lot of mocap experience before that, I can confirm that
Lighthouse's tracking is _ridiculously_ good.
It's not just as good as something like an Optitrack system: it's
significantly better.
If this provides comparable tracking to what the Vive offers, it's an
absolutely unbeatable price / performance combo.
~~~
ashtuchkin
I was really inspired by that too! The tracking is comparable, but not on par
yet - you need multiple sensors and IMU fusion to achieve the smoothness of
Vive. This is only a first step :)
~~~
thenomad
Ah, they're doing sensor fusion with inbuilt IMUs? That makes sense...
I have a colleague with some deep technical knowledge in this area - he's the
guy who did the heavy lifting when I built an inertial mocap suit a while ago.
I've pointed him at your project. If it turns out that it is of interest,
perhaps you can get some useful collaboration / suggestions out of that!
------
moron4hire
I actually just arrived in Seattle to take the official HTC course on using
the Steam VR positional tracking system, and this was one of the first things
I saw as I got off the plane.
~~~
ashtuchkin
That's so cool :) let me know if I got anything wrong with the device or
geometry calculation! Also I would be happy to get any feedback from Steam VR
people!
------
SuperPaintMan
I've been mulling a installation work based on exploring video solids[1]
around using cheap phone-VR mounts. This project is exactly what I need to
find the viewers position in the video/space. Any cheaper way to do this
without the Lighthouse devices?
[1] [https://theblackbox.ca/blog/vector-
video/](https://theblackbox.ca/blog/vector-video/)
~~~
ashtuchkin
Nice project!
There's a whole bunch of indoor positioning methods, having different
precision/simplicity/cost profiles, so you might need to shop around. Probably
cheapest and closest to my sensor is ultrasound sensors like
[http://www.marvelmind.com](http://www.marvelmind.com)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tell HN: IActionable Makes the Top 16 for AppQuest 2011 - vyrotek
Our startup has been thrown into the spotlight by making it into the Top 16 of Salesforce.com's App Quest contest. It's obviously an exciting and nerve-racking time for us. We've come a long way since we original posted the concept here on HN over a year ago and made the plunge to work full-time on our platform.<p>I'm very interested in getting some new feedback on our platform, Salesforce application and general direction. We've made a huge pivot to concentrate on employee engagement and I think we've made a good choice.
======
vyrotek
Clickable: <http://iactionable.com>
If you're interested in learning more about our Salesforce contest entry you
can check our our latest blog article: [http://iactionable.com/engage-by-
iactionable-makes-the-top-1...](http://iactionable.com/engage-by-iactionable-
makes-the-top-16-for-appquest-2011/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Great Climate Migration Has Begun - edward
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/23/magazine/climate-migration.html
======
9nGQluzmnq3M
> _In Southeast Asia, where increasingly unpredictable monsoon rainfall and
> drought have made farming more difficult, the World Bank points to more than
> eight million people who have moved toward the Middle East, Europe and North
> America._
Citation needed: as far as I can tell the linked report (below, a giant 260
page, 64MB PDF) says nothing at all about Southeast Asia?
[https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/2...](https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/29461/WBG_ClimateChange_Final.pdf)
The vast majority of Southeast Asia is very consistently wet and humid, which
makes it an unlikely candidate to become unlivably hot. The sole major
exporter of workers in the region is the Philippines, but that's mostly due to
overpopulation encouraged by Catholic dogma, and there's "only" around 2M
overseas workers. Where are the other 6M?
Personally, I think India is going to be largest challenge by far. It's soon
the largest country in the world, it has massive water and pollution problems,
and anybody who has experienced Delhi in May will agree that large parts of it
are already virtually uninhabitably hot.
~~~
orwin
> The vast majority of Southeast Asia is very consistently wet and humid,
> which makes it an unlikely candidate to become unlivably hot.
unlivealy hot and wet [0]. Some people indeed think that the high humidity
combined with a >33C temperature will soon be the leading cause of death in SE
Asia, SE india, tropical africa as well as Florida, coastal georgia and SC[1].
I' disagree (or rather, i'm not quite as pestimistic) but the ;ortality in
some area indeed get higher with humidity in summer
[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-
bulb_temperature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature)
[1][https://kevinhester.live/2016/05/21/wet-bulb-temperature-
soo...](https://kevinhester.live/2016/05/21/wet-bulb-temperature-soon-to-
become-the-leading-cause-of-death/) (i found a way better map some time ago
but i can't find it, sorry)
------
seesawtron
A similar discussion from half a year ago on HN [0]. Everytime I see
concerning articles like these on drastic impact of climate change, it is
always followed by a discussion on how disheartening and worrisome it is.
However, what I would really like to see is a discussion on what we, as
engineers or skilled professionals or converned citizens of the only liveable
planet, do to make an impactful difference. I am sure a lot of us do our part
by making little changes in our everyday life such as reducing consumption,
choosing public transportation, being aware of the source of the goods we
consume, so on and so forth. But there is very little hope that these small
changes will get us where we need to be.
I found this [1] firm that aims to match you to organizations doing impactful
work on a larger scale, in case it is interesting for anyone. Hoping to see
more such resources or strategies.
[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057576](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057576)
[1] [https://www.splashwithdolphin.com/](https://www.splashwithdolphin.com/)
~~~
perfunctory
Unfortunately, I believe there is nothing special we as engineers can do. The
best thing we can do is what any other concerned citizen can do. Join climate
activists on the streets. Rebel against the status quo. Yes, it's much less
comfortable than sitting in front of a screen all day, but it's the most
efficient way.
~~~
minerjoe
> Nothing special we as engieers can do?
Truly you can bring more imagination to the table?
We have almost the entire world connected. Partial solutions to many of todays
problems have already been discovered, they just haven't been communicated to
the rest. As engineers, we are in a good spot to address this issue.
Amost everyone has a supercomputer in their pocket, networked with the rest.
There has to be some way to use this to help enable people to get out of
destructive extractive system, and to create new, aligned with nature,
systems.
~~~
perfunctory
> There has to be some way to use this to help enable people to ...
This is what I used to think too. Over the years though (decades really) my
belief in pure technological solutions has waned significantly. As the world
interconnectedness increases, so do the global GHG emissions. As the number of
supercomputers in our pockets increase so does the e-waist and micro-plastic
pollution. It looks like no matter what we do (EVs, solar, smart-grids, you
name it), somehow, almost inexplicably, the GHG emissions just keep rising.
Year after year.
Don't get me wrong. I am not anti technology or something. It's just that it's
not a bottleneck anymore. There is no lack of technological solutions, there
is a lack of moral courage to implement them.
------
roenxi
Global population is increasing at a rate of >1% per year. We crossed 6
billion in 1999 and 7 billion in 2011. We're now much closer to 8 billion than
7 billion too.
It is hard to imagine scenarios where this magnitude of growth ends well and
wedging 'climate' into everything really is making people miss the real
problem. The problem is human population growth - it seems quite likely that
the future contains seas of blood and withering famines with or without
climate change.
Handing out condoms and the pill will do more to help than curtailing fossil
fuel usage (which realistically will just bring the suffering on faster). A
world of 1 billion people would be a very comfortable world compared to what
people put up with now - about a third of them could have a US-level lifestyle
and the rest could put up with European standards of living.
~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
Fertility rates are already plummeting across the planet, and most developed
countries already need a steady influx of migrants just to keep their
populations steady. The issue is that a baby born today will live for 70-ish
years, so there's a large "hump" of overpopulation to deal with before world
population growth goes into reverse around 2100.
~~~
ur-whale
That "hump going into reverse" theory is predicated on there being no large-
scale disaster (war, famine, etc...).
The way things are going, that predicate is rather unlikely.
~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
War or famine would likely speed up reaching that point, not slow it down.
Nevertheless, grim Malthusian predictions have been made since the 1700s, and
have yet to come to pass.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The spirit of Buffy the Vampire Slayer lives on - jseliger
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2009/06/23/vampire_fiction/print.html
======
ujjwalg
I loved that show. I wish they make a movie out of it of course with the same
cast and there are sequels after sequels of it. Even if they turn out to be
terrible, I am going to enjoy every tid-bit of those movies, because I loved
the characters. It was awesome!! Bring it back, please. :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Alan Kay at Demo: The Future Doesn't Have to Be Incremental - corysama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAghAJcO1o
======
dredmorbius
The core idea of non-incremental progress: Xerox PARC accomplished what it did
in large part by forcing technology 15 years into the future. The Alto, of
which PARC built around 2000, mostly for its own staff, cost about $85,000 in
present dollars. What it provided exceeded the general market personal
computing capabilities of the late 1980s. This enabled the "twelve and a half"
inventions from PARC which Kay claims have created over $30 trillion in
generated wealth, at a cost of around $10-12 million/year.
Kay also distinguishes "invention" (what PARC did) -- as fundamental research,
from "innovation" (what Apple did) -- as _product_ development.
Other topics:
• Learning curves (people, especially marketers, hate them)
• "New" vs. "News". News tells familiar stories in an established context.
"New" is invisible, learning, and change.
• The majority acts based on group acceptance, not on the merits of an idea.
Extroversion vs. introversion.
• There are "human universals" \-- themes people accept automatically, without
marketing, as opposed to non-universals, which have to be taught.
• Knowledge dominates IQ. Henry Ford accomplished more than Leonardo da Vinci
not because he was smarter, but because humanity's cumulative knowledge had
given him tools and inventions Leonardo could only dream of.
• Tyranny of the present.
~~~
skore
> • Knowledge dominates IQ. Henry Ford accomplished more than Leonardo da
> Vinci not because he was smarter, but because humanity's cumulative
> knowledge had given him tools and inventions Leonardo could only dream of.
This really struck a chord for me. What I got from it was that many people try
to build some form of success on pure IQ and get frustrated when they are
outmuscled by knowledge in the market.
I think that cuts back to Xerox PARC as well - by focussing everything on IQ,
they _created the knowledge_ that allowed Apple to be so dominant.
Where the talk falls a little bit on the obnoxious side is when Mr. Kay makes
dismissive statements on how they created what others sold, just 10 or 20
years earlier. I think that ignores the enormous amount of work you have to
put into connecting this knowledge that they worked out to the current state
of mind that people are in.
Xerox PARC may have invented the future, but the failure of their parent
company to bring that future to market shows that even with that knowledge at
hand, you have quite a bit of way ahead of you.
~~~
trhway
>Xerox PARC may have invented the future, but the failure of their parent
company to bring that future to market shows that even with that knowledge at
hand, you have quite a bit of way ahead of you.
does it really matter that Xerox PARC "invented the future"? If not they, then
somebody else couple years later. 10-20 years down the road it just wouldn't
change a bit.
~~~
epayne
Alan Kay posits that yes it does matter that PARC "invented the future"
because there were and are very few researchers working with the opportunity
mix necessary. They had five years of freedom from business concerns, tons of
ambition, the right context, intelligence and inspiration. Kay claims that the
extremely unique situation and persons at PARC and previously at ARPA are what
gave rise to the inventions. I think he would agree with you that other people
would have made similar discoveries and inventions, if only they too had the
opportunity and necessary materials. From what I have heard Alan say in his
speeches his perspective is that the opportunity simply does not exist today,
at least not in the necessary configuration to do what PARC did.
Check out this video for a more detailed history recounted by Kay about PARC
and what led up to it: [http://vimeo.com/84523828](http://vimeo.com/84523828)
~~~
trhway
>there were and are very few researchers working with the opportunity mix
necessary. They had five years of freedom from business concerns, tons of
ambition, the right context, intelligence and inspiration.
A lot of Universities and research centers have the same. As most of them are,
arguably, not a PARC may be these conditions aren't important? On the other
side, we do have a lot of R&D coming out of Universities and research centers,
so may be PARC isn't important?
i may sound like trolling, but i did listen live to Alan Kay once and honestly
got more confused and got more questions as a result :)
~~~
dropit_sphere
University research is not free from business concerns either---the phrase
"publish or perish" exists for a reason.
------
bitwize
When Tetsuya Mizuguchi left Sega to form Q Entertainment, he and his team
started work on the famous puzzle game _Lumines_. Their stated goal was to
create a game that was merely half a step forward, as opposed to their
previous game, _Rez_ , which was two steps forward -- and didn't do well at
market.
Smalltalk was at least two steps forward, probably much more than that. The
critical thing that put it well into the future was the fact that it made the
boundary between users and programmers even more porous. I'm sure many of you
have heard the stories of teenagers sitting down to an Alto and writing their
own circuit design software in Smalltalk. That kind of power -- turning
ordinary people into masters of these powerful machines easily and efficiently
-- is just the sort of revolution originally desired and promised us by the
first microcomputer marketers.
But of course it didn't do well at market at first, so we had to settle for
the thing that was merely half a step forward -- the Macintosh.
~~~
dropit_sphere
You might enjoy this segment from Game Theory about how innovative games don't
do well:
[http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-
GLE29Q)
~~~
mattgreenrocks
Great discussion of this concept, thank you!
------
neel8986
Though a bit obnoxious i really liked the talk. Alan talked about 2007. If we
look back it was the time when first iphone was announced. We all knew that in
a timespan of seven years the processor will be much faster( Now it is almost
20 times faster)., connectivity will be faster, it will have better display
and better sensors. But still none of the application that exists today
(except games and animations maybe) take all this improvement into
consideration. We are still stuck in old ideas of messaging app, photo sharing
app, maps and news aggregators. I believe all those apps could have been
conceived back in 2007. No one thought about any new use cases which can take
use of the improved hardware. In fact some of the noble concepts like shazm or
word lens were conceived 4-5 years back. Now we are stuck at a time where
giants of internet are just struggling to squeeze few more bytes of
information from user in sake of making more money from adds. It is difficult
to believe after 7 years of first smartphone the most talked about event this
year was a messaging app being acquired for 19 billion!! I think hardware
engineers push the limits by going to any extent to make moore's law true. But
we software guys fails to appreciate what is going to come in future
~~~
vidarh
Consider that in 2007, the iPhone was _already_ effectively the result of
years of waiting. In '99/2000, there was already touch screen PDAs with apps
and various limited networking functionality, and phone functionality at least
as early as 2002 (possibly earlier, I don't remember), and a few tablets had
started making their appearance (both laptops + touch, as well as "proper"
tablets). But they were all massively hamstrung by hardware (the first
generation Palm's had less than 1/1000th the memory of many current
smartphones; monochrome low res displays, and resistive touch)
Arguably, even in '99, the idea itself was _old_ \- those of us working on
stuff like that then, were looking back at Star Trek and other SF, and it was
just the feeling that it was an idea whose time had finally come.
Apple's genius with the iPhone and iPad, was realising its time had _not_
come, and waiting and refining their design until the basic underlying
hardware "caught up" and they could provide a product suitable for "normal
users". Everyone else got to make the expensive mistakes; most of the
companies involved are no longer around, or pulled out of that market before
Apple made its entry.
Sometimes ideas are just not right yet, and spending time trying to force the
issue is likely to fail because the end result will be massively compromised.
But sometimes the ideas are just not right yet also because the public has not
"caught up". It's not just that software developers must figure this out, but
end users must have caught up enough that the new ideas fit into their world
view.
~~~
eurleif
>Apple's genius with the iPhone and iPad, was realising its time had not come,
and waiting and refining their design until the basic underlying hardware
"caught up" and they could provide a product suitable for "normal users".
Everyone else got to make the expensive mistakes; most of the companies
involved are no longer around, or pulled out of that market before Apple made
its entry.
Aren't you forgetting that Apple made the Newton?
------
exratione
Allow me to put forward a historical analogy: standing in 2014 and arguing a
case for gentle future changes in [pick your field here] over the next few
decades, based on the past few decades, is something like standing in 1885 or
so and arguing that speed and convenience of passenger travel will steadily
and gently increase in the decades ahead. The gentleman prognosticator of the
mid-1880s could look back at steady progress in the operating speed of
railways and similar improvement in steamships throughout the 19th century. He
would be aware of the prototyping of various forms of engine that promised to
allow carriages to reliably proceed at the pace of trains, and the first frail
airships that could manage a fair pace in flight - though by no means the
equal of speed by rail.
Like our present era, however, the end of the 19th century was a time of very
rapid progress and invention in comparison to the past. In such ages trends
are broken and exceeded. Thus within twenty years of the first crudely powered
and fragile airships, heavier than air flight launched in earnest: a
revolutionary change in travel brought on by the blossoming of a completely
new branch of applied technology. By the late 1920s, the aircraft of the first
airlines consistently flew four to five times as fast as the operating speed
of trains in 1880, and new lines of travel could be set up for a fraction of
the cost of a railway. Little in the way of incrementalism there: instead a
great and sweeping improvement accomplished across a few decades and through
the introduction of a completely new approach to the problem.
------
corysama
For ideas on how to make non-incremental progress in technology, check out
Kay's earlier talk "Programming and Scaling" [http://www.tele-
task.de/archive/video/flash/14029/](http://www.tele-
task.de/archive/video/flash/14029/)
~~~
straws
This is a great talk in a completely unwatchable format. Here are links to
mp4s of the video:
[http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_...](http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_SS11/HPIK_2011_07_21_01_part_1_podcast.mp4)
[http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_...](http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_SS11/HPIK_2011_07_21_01_part_2_podcast.mp4)
[http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_...](http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_SS11/HPIK_2011_07_21_01_part_3_podcast.mp4)
[http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_...](http://stream.hpi.uni-
potsdam.de:8080/download/podcast/HPIK_SS11/HPIK_2011_07_21_01_part_4_podcast.mp4)
------
jal278
A practical suggestion Kay makes is that one way to brainstorm start-ups is to
think of technological amplifiers for human universals [1]
[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Universals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Universals)
~~~
Geee
Those are kind of strange, but struck a chord because I have been myself
trying to discover these fundamentals which make us human and which most of
technology is 'amplifying' (by Kay's terms). For example, music is not on that
list which I personally think is one of the most important fundamental and
which a lot of technology is built upon. Nor is communication, which is
another fundamental and also a driver of a lot of technology. Maybe I'm
thinking in a bit different terms, though.
~~~
andrewflnr
I think Alan Kay put communication in his list. I don't think music is quite
universal, certainly not uniformly and not the way we experience it now. He
mentioned harmony theory as a notable non-universal, while almost any music
you hear today makes extensive use of harmony.
------
semiel
One of the problems I've been struggling with lately is how to arrange for
this sort of work, while still allowing the researchers to make a living.
Governments and large corporations seem to have by and large lost interest in
funding it, and a small company doesn't have the resources to make it
sustainable. How do we solve this?
~~~
justin66
> Governments and large corporations seem to have by and large lost interest
> in funding it, and a small company doesn't have the resources to make it
> sustainable. How do we solve this?
Educating people as to where their tax dollars are going is always a good
start. The average joe has some very, very odd ideas about the federal budget
and how money is allocated.
Personal favorites: the way many people complain about how much we spend on
foreign aid. Ask such a person how much we _ought_ spend as a percentage of
the budget and the figure will very often represent a massive increase over
what we spend now, since we don't spend much at all.
Or the way many people literally cannot wrap their heads around how much war
costs. A couple of years ago an expert came out and pointed out that we spent
more than $20 billion on air conditioning for our military every year in
Afghanistan when you include road maintenance and fuel trucks and so on. He
was a former general who had been involved in logistics but many people needed
to just assume he was full of it, since that's more than we spend every year
on _fucking NASA._
The trouble I see is that if you were a politician and you went around with
the charts and visual aids a businessman would use to give a briefing and
convey that info... you'd look like Ross Perot. So I guess he just ruined it
for everybody.
~~~
leoc
The UK is just launching something to address this:
[https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/451773213497118720/](https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/451773213497118720/)
I expect it would be more difficult to do something similar for the US given
the wedding-cake of federal, state and local taxes.
~~~
bjelkeman-again
Got some other reference? That link isn't working and my mobile makes it hard
to fix the link.
~~~
leoc
The link WFM, but try [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2596059/Where-
taxes-...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2596059/Where-taxes-REALLY-
spent-24million-workers-sent-statements-showing-22-goes-benefits.html) ?
------
cliveowen
Thank you for posting this, the best quote so far has been this: "Prior to the
18th century virtually everyone on the planet died in the same world they were
born into". This is a realization I never had, we take progress for granted
but it's a precious thing actually.
~~~
DonGateley
Which is why I think the idea of change itself was an invention. Up until
roughly that point in history people didn't apply themselves to change because
they didn't even have the concept as it came to be understood.
Things progressed so glacially for so long simply because, from experience,
nothing other than stasis could be imagined, not because we were any dumber.
Change was the key innovation for change. Occasionally I wonder if it wasn't
an inherently fatal discovery.
One wonders how many other such "basic" concepts there might be that remain
hidden from view.
------
MrQuincle
Perhaps he's a tad obnoxious, but he says some interesting things.
\- think of the future, than reason backwards
\- use Moore's law in reverse
\- an introvert character can be helpful in coming up with real inventions
\- be interested in new ideas for the sake of them being new, not because they
are useful now, or accepted, or understandable
\- it seems good to sell stuff that can be instantly used, people however,
like many other things. they might for example like to learning or get
skilled. the bike example is one. but also the piano. or the skateboard.
At least, this is what I tried to grasp from it. :-)
------
xxcode
Hacker News is the epitome of short term thinking, with projects like 'weekend
projects' etc.
------
leoc
It's amusing that the same optical illusion has been discussed by Michael
Abrash
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2dQoeqVVo#t=453](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2dQoeqVVo#t=453)
and Alan Kay
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAghAJcO1o#t=1534](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAghAJcO1o#t=1534)
in talks on very different topics recently.
> Thomas Paine said in _Common Sense_ , instead of having the king be the law,
> why, we can have the law be the king. That was one of the biggest shifts,
> large scale shifts in history because he realised "hey, we can design a
> better society than tradition has and we can put it into law; so, we're just
> going to invert thousands of years of beliefs".
Pfft, tell that to the 13th-century Venetians:
[http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2007/HPL-2007-28R1.pdf](http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2007/HPL-2007-28R1.pdf)
. Constitutionalism isn't that new an idea.
------
forgotprevpass
At 15:00, he mentions research on the efficiency of gestures done in the 60's.
Does anyone know what he's referring to?
~~~
ozten
Sketchpad by Ivan Sutherland in 1963, would be one.
It allows one to draw CAD drawings, convert drawn letters into labels, etc in
a more natural way.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad)
~~~
jecel
Besides the Sketchpad, Alan always mentions Grail (GRAphic Input Language),
designed by Thomas Ellis and programmed by Gabriel Groner and others at the
Rand Corporation. That was from 1964.
As far as I know, Alan also greatly admires the work done at MIT in the 1970s
like
[http://www.paulmckevitt.com/cre333/papers/putthatthere.pdf](http://www.paulmckevitt.com/cre333/papers/putthatthere.pdf)
------
andreyf
Stephen Wolfram's demo he referred to doesn't appear to be up yet, but this
one from a couple weeks back is pretty sweet:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9HqHVPeik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9HqHVPeik)
~~~
purpletoned
It seems to be up now at
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYmO20N6MY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYmO20N6MY).
------
athst
This is a great excuse for buying the nicest computer possible - I need to
compute in the future!
------
sAuronas
Playing Wayne Gretzky:
30 years we will (ought to) have cars that repel over the surface by a
bioether [sic], possible emitted from the street - which have become (replaced
as) linear parks that vehicles float over and never crash. Because of all the
new park area, some kids in the suburbs (because they will be park rich) will
invent a new game that stretches over a mile that involves more imagination
than football, basketball and soccer - combined.
That was an awesome video. C++ == Guitar Hero
------
revorad
The talk starts at 2:42 -
[http://youtu.be/gTAghAJcO1o?t=2m42s](http://youtu.be/gTAghAJcO1o?t=2m42s)
------
kashkhan
Anyone have a link to the Q&A after the talk?
------
rafeed
Firstly, I enjoyed his talk. It was pretty insightful into the ways so many
businesses and corporations today think, and how we've lost track of building
the future. However, there's one thing that really bugged me about his talk.
It basically boils down to the fact that you have to take into consideration
Moore's Law and have to pay a hefty sum to make any useful invention by paying
for the technologies that are 10-15 years ahead of its time to do anything
useful for the next 30 years. How does one "invent" in his terms today without
the equity that he refers to which you need?
~~~
w1ntermute
Also, Moore's law might be applicable to computing hardware, but it isn't
necessarily generalizable to other sorts of inventions.
------
queensnake
That 'universals' guy seems actually to be Donald Brown, and his book is
'Human Universals'. [http://www.amazon.com/Human-Universals-Donald-
Brown/dp/00700...](http://www.amazon.com/Human-Universals-Donald-
Brown/dp/007008209X)
The book is expensive, here's a list:
[http://condor.depaul.edu/mfiddler/hyphen/humunivers.htm](http://condor.depaul.edu/mfiddler/hyphen/humunivers.htm)
------
norswap
Totally tangential, but that intro music segment with Alan Key just looking
around is total comedy gold. Ah, those cheesy conf organizers...
------
oskarth
For an alternative and cynical view of Xerox PARC, have a look at Ted Nelson's
_Computers for Cynics 2 - It All Went Wrong at Xerox PARC_ (15 minutes video):
[http://fixyt.com/watch?v=c6SUOeAqOjU](http://fixyt.com/watch?v=c6SUOeAqOjU)
------
kev009
I know this is really trivial, but I found the extended music intro and his
unamused reaction quite comical. Over-analyzing, it's a juxtaposition to parts
of his talk.
------
LazerBear
This is very relevant to something I'm trying to build right now, thank you
for sharing!
------
Zigurd
A lot of his talk was wasted on irrelevant complaining about lack of capex in
R&D. That's only partly correct. Any one of us can afford to rent a crazy
amount of computing power and storage on demand. Pfft.
In short, skip the first 20 minutes. He's being a grumpy old man. In the
second part, he's a pissed-off genius and revolutionary.
~~~
dropit_sphere
Sure, but do they have money to live on while they're experimenting?
~~~
Zigurd
His argument that 5 year timespans are minimal for invention is on target, but
that's opex, even when you are cash flow negative. Where he is wrong is that
you need large equipment capex for invention. Unless you are building a novel
special purpose computing device, like an giant FPGA cryptocurrency miner, you
really don't need more than $5k capex per coder for anything anymore, and
renting Web-scale power is cheap.
------
Roritharr
Wow, he really comes of as obnoxious.
Yes what was done in Xerox Parc was really amazing and cool, but can you
please contain your ego atleast a little?
This talk sounds basically like him explaining to everybody in detail how
awesome his achievements are.
EDIT: The best point is where he explains with charts that 80% of people are
basically sheeple...
~~~
cliveowen
At first glance it might come off as hubris, but it's actually just a way of
separating what we now know as technology (consumer technology) which is
mostly just incremental from the other kind of technology which is innovative
and profoundly transformative.
When he talks about the research that went on at the Parc back in the 70s it's
not to show his accomplishments but to show the difference between commercial
products addressed to the masses and touted as technological breakthroughs and
real breakthroughs that happen way before the mass production and slowly make
their way into society and bring about enormous changes and wealth.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: advice on the customer conversion rate needed - smikhanov
Hi community, I am looking for some advice on the approach to market analysis.<p>We are planning to enter the energy saving appliances market in Europe. The idea is that customer purchases an appliance that monitors his energy consumption and allows to save some money on electricity bills. Appliance (and our analytics service) is not free, so there should be an incentive for the customer to start using it. Say, if he spends X USD on electricity every month without an appliance, and appliance costs Y USD while allows saving of Z USD, then what customer conversion should we expect based on those numbers? It's clear that if an $5 appliance allows saving $50 of monthly bill of $100, then few people will hesitate to buy it. What about $20 appliance that allows saving $50 of yearly bill of $1000? Any advices on the conversion expectations here? Maybe something similar to statistics of 1% paying customers in freemium model?<p>Thanks in advance.
======
gridspy
First step: Know your competition. [http://blog.mapawatt.com/2009/10/07/list-
of-energy-monitorin...](http://blog.mapawatt.com/2009/10/07/list-of-energy-
monitoring-tools/comment-page-1/#comment-1962)
Count me in on your list of competitors with Gridspy:
<http://www.gridspy.co.nz/>
I'd be thinking in terms of years to pay back the system. Talking to clients
will give you an idea where they lie on the scale of 1 to 10 years.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
John McAfee Told His Followers to ‘Flood’ the SEC’s Inbox. It Didn’t Go Well - DyslexicAtheist
https://www.ccn.com/john-mcafee-told-his-followers-to-flood-the-secs-inbox-it-didnt-go-well/
======
Havoc
>crypto token [...] redeeming Building grade Sand
haha. A sand backed crypto token...that's amazing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do I anonymize a user's IP Address? - thisismyhnuser
For instance, take the IP address of "215.54.387.9"...if I simply use "215.54.387" and leave out the last "9" is that enough so that the IP address cannot be traced back to the user? My understanding is that a government entity, etc needs to match the HTTP referer in combination w/ the full IP address to track down the user's information, or am I wrong? Also, how would I deal with IPV6 addresses?
======
greenyoda
_" I simply use '215.54.387' and leave out the last '9' is that enough so that
the IP address cannot be traced back to the user?"_
A single company could easily own all 256 IP addresses in 215.54.87.*. (Larger
companies can own even larger blocks of IP addresses.) So just dropping the
last number doesn't offer much anonymity. For example, once somebody traced
the address down to XYZ Company, that company might be able to give them a log
of all outgoing traffic tied to specific employees' machines. Even an ISP
might be able to link a partial IP address to a specific user if they can
search their logs for a specific date/time/destination.
(Note: '387' could never be a component of an IPv4 address, since each
component is 8 bits, or 0-255.)
------
Raed667
Do you NEED this information in your DB? Can you live without it? If so, just
don't store the IP addresses.
~~~
thisismyhnuser
I'm really trying to solve my other question:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11511793](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11511793)
I thought I'd break it up since it really is 2 questions.
------
detaro
a) please do not delete & repost, it's against HNs rules
b) You can't maintain a 1:1 mapping and anonymity, if I know your algorithm
it's trivial to try all IP addresses and get a mapping to do a reverse look
up. You need to throw away data to make it ambiguous, e.g. in probabilistic
data structures like bloom filters.
I don't know what a snooper would want with the HTTP referrer information.
~~~
thisismyhnuser
didn't delete. I edited my other question (which has a different focus) and
then posted this.
~~~
detaro
Ok, sorry, I just remembered seeing the question shortly before and couldn't
find it again ;)
------
sajid
You can use HMAC:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash-
based_message_authenticat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash-
based_message_authentication_code)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The March of Progress (in programming language syntax :) - progga
http://alan.dipert.org/post/153430634/the-march-of-progress
======
acqq
The proper list starts with:
1956: Fortran I:
PRINT 1, X
1 FORMAT (F10.2)
Fortran was able to use the same format specification for more than one print
statement, that's why the format statement is referenced by number. It was
even able to do repeats, for example this code from 1956
PRINT 2, X, Y, A, B, C, D, N
2 FORMAT ( 3 ( F10.3, F10.4 ), I4 )
is an equivalent of the following C:
printf( "%10.3f%10.4f%10.3f%10.4f%10.3f%10.4f%4d",
x, y, a, b, c, d, n );
Moreover, C interprets the format specification at runtime, in FORTRAN the
compiler uses it during the compilation.
Fortran was invented by John Backus and there was already a finished compiler
in 1956:
"Programmer's Reference Manual Fortran Automatic Coding System For IBM 704"
[http://www.fh-
jena.de/~kleine/history/languages/FortranAutom...](http://www.fh-
jena.de/~kleine/history/languages/FortranAutomaticCodingSystemForTheIBM704.pdf)
I/O in the first Fortran, I believe including the FN.M syntax, was implemented
by Roy Nutt, also one obvious genius:
[http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/dictionary/detail.as...](http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/dictionary/detail.asp?guid=&searchtype=&DicID=18855&RefType=Encyclopedia)
~~~
eliasmacpherson
char format[10] = "%10.3f%10.4f%10.3f%10.4f%10.3f%10.4f%4d";
printf( format, x, y, a, b, c, d, n );
You can get similar behavior from C, reusing the format specification? No idea
if this was true in the K&R days though.
~~~
acqq
But not the repetition inside of one specification which I illustrated in the
example (note the 3 before the braces in the 2 FORMAT), and much more
important, no compile-time type checking and compile time code generation for
output. In C it's a library call and most of the processing happens at the
run-time. And yes I know of gcc checks.
Still whoever uses some printf variant today, misses some aspects of what was
working in 1956.
~~~
eliasmacpherson
I was only addressing your first point, not your second example which you
demonstrated clearly earlier. The recursive syntax is impressive alright -
thanks for sharing it. I was unaware of it, as I'm sure many others were. I
was not suggesting C has a built in method for achieving the results of the
second example. I'm not certain about the compile time versus execution time
distinctions. The compiler behaviour could depend on the mutability of the
objects. It's possible a C #define constant would cause different compile time
behaviour to variables. I'm not a compiler expert in either language so I
can't provide any insight in any case.
Those GCC checks you mentioned are handy and would have avoided a bug in
production code a colleague encountered a few years ago, but I imagine they
are more recent than C in 1982, and certainly more recent than Fortran in 1956
#define formata "%10.3f%10.4f"
#define formatb(z) z z z "%4d\n"
printf( formatb(formata), x, y, a, b, c, d, n );
The example you've given is thought provoking!
------
SeanLuke
I'm not sure what the point of this is. It seems pretty petty. To wit, we
could have just we well written...
MACLISP (1980):
(format t "Week ~R of the ~:R month of the year ~:@R~%" 15 102 1996)
--> Week fifteen of the one hundred second month of the year MDCCCCLXXXXVI
C/C++/Java/Python/Ruby:
...uh...
COMMON LISP:
(format t "Week ~R of the ~:R month of the year ~:@R~%" 15 102 1996)
--> Week fifteen of the one hundred second month of the year MDCCCCLXXXXVI
There are powerful print functions and then there are _powerful_ print
functions.
~~~
calibraxis
Clojure has cl-format. ([http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.pprint-
api.html...](http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.pprint-
api.html#clojure.pprint/cl-format))
~~~
draegtun
Ditto for Perl: <https://metacpan.org/module/Lisp::Fmt>
------
goodside
This is a very specific selection. There are plenty of modern languages that
don't use printf semantics or C-like syntax. Too, there's languages from the
80s and 90s that did: Python (1991), R (1993), and PHP (1995) come to mind for
direct printf analogs.
------
michaelochurch
Unfortunately, much of the industry is still stuck in 1996 because, hey, IDEs
take care of the boilerplate, so it's "free", right?
------
dons
Hmm
printf "%10.2f"
\-- Haskell, 1990.
------
Jabbles
Is the author related to this post made 4 days ago here on HN?
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3942636>
~~~
Symmetry
Both claim to have gotten it from <http://www.horstmann.com/>
------
lclarkmichalek
None of these are syntax. `printf` in C or scala/groovy is a function call,
which relates to the language's API, the C++ use of streams is an API
decision, Java being funky is due to its API (and its semantics to a lesser
extent). The only language I can think of off the top of my head where print
would be syntax would be python, and even then 1) that's only for versions
<=2, and 2) the formatting would still be an API choice.
~~~
astrobe_
printf/scanf do have a syntax. But you're not wrong saying it is not part of
the syntax of the language stricto sensu.
I personnaly don't like the printf/scanf style, which unfortunately often
prevails in newer languages. I definitely prefer the string interpolation
method, or just plain string concatenation.
~~~
lloeki
> I definitely prefer the string interpolation method, or just plain string
> concatenation.
You're mixing things up; the point of printf is to format data, of which "%s /
%s / %s" is a subset. Constructs like "0x%04x" or "%12s" really are about
_formatting_.
~~~
jasomill
Yes, but they're often used for "mere" interpolation, especially in languages
where, rightly or wrongly, string concatenation is believed to be inefficient.
I personally do this nine times out of ten, if only out of habit.
For my part, I've never personally liked the use of "+", in particular, to
denote concatenation, for the (admittedly silly) reason that string
concatenation is not commutative. If nothing else, it's a bit of a slippery
slope to even more dubious operator overloads, though not nearly so much as
C++'s bloody I/O "operators"!
~~~
lloeki
It's not uncommon to use + for groups even if they're not abelian, esp. with
near-rings.
This takes all its importance with duck-typing, as syntactic sugar of binary
operators will be translated to a method call, e.g in Ruby _a + b_ becomes
_a.+(b)_ [0]. while in Python it's _a.__add__(b)_ [1]. The result might be
commutative, but the call and evaluation order certainly is not.
[0] <http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Fixnum.html#method-i-2B> [1]
[http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__add...](http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__add__)
------
ge0rg
Fortunately, Java is "developing" with regard to its expressiveness.
Using Scala and co only brings you a part of the way, especially if you have
to interact with Javaesque APIs like in Android, where you have dozens of
different abstract classes (or sometimes interfaces) begging for anonymous
inner classes.
------
hippo_crete
In 1956 there was such a thing as "the compiler business". Companies bought
compilers.
Now, most programmers only speculate what a compiler does. They are so focused
on language details.
Few want to write compilers. Many want to write yet another new language.
------
MBCook
Heh. Cute.
As a Java programmer, I agree that NumberFormat looks ridiculous there. It's a
lot of work for a single number to string conversion.
Luckily, since Java 5 there is a printf function:
System.out.printf(...);
~~~
spicyj
That's in the article.
------
languagehacker
Does anyone else find a headline about the emergence of traditional orthodoxy
in syntax that omits a closing paren in favor of an emoticon to be maddeningly
ironic?
------
ww520
OP is being manipulative, selecting a tiny slice of a language's API to
exaggerate his petty point.
You just have to type _hello world_ in HTML. Beat that.
~~~
EvilTerran
H
is "Hello World" in HQ9+
<http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/hq9plusplus.html>
:P
------
Groxx
Ruby: p "%10.2f" % x
Progress™!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Morphic for JavaScript - sedachv
http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=34
======
stcredzero
What would it take to port Morphic directly on top of Objective-C? One could
keep all of the selectors around in a collection. One could also keep class
references. Not sure what to do about passing blocks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why is 911 so expensive? - mkovji
======
mtmail
Can you add relevant articles or statistics to your question?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple makes 23 different dongles – and it would cost you $857 to buy them all - djvdorp
http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-dongles-2017-8?international=true&r=UK&IR=T
======
pmx
You'd never need all of these though, would you? There is a lot of overlap
between the dongles that unless you had a lot of devices you wouldn't require.
For example I can't see anyone buying an HDMI to DVI + a Lightning to VGA + a
Mini Displayport to DVI. Feels a little bit like saying ford make xx models of
car & it would cost you £1 million to buy them all.
~~~
spaceisballer
Title is very silly, just trying to jump on the dongle hate train. I don't
have or own any dongles despite my many Apple devices (technically I have one
for my iPhone 7 with headphones, but I have air pods if I ever need
headphones). I think Apple knows most consumers don't need dongles at all.
~~~
dismantlethesun
I actually have most of these because I tend to buy new Apple equipment, and
try to connect it to old non-apple equipment.
Something like a lightning to VGA adapter is a must have in my household.
~~~
undersuit
Why? What about your previous non-dongle needing equipment was so inferior you
replaced it for a new Mac and yet you didn't replace the VGA monitor? Some
kind of exceedingly rare edge case?
~~~
slededit
while VGA is getting quite old, generally speaking a monitor will outlive
several computers.
------
Fezzik
Personally, I would prefer the option for 23 dongles (most of which I will
never use, or buy) to a multitude of ports on my laptop (most of which I will
never use). The first seems like it provides me options, the second seems like
it adds unnecessary failure points and openings to a delicate machine.
~~~
GuB-42
You can think of extra ports as failure points but you can also think of them
as redundancy. Having a single port to connect everything causes a lot of wear
on a single point of failure.
~~~
photojosh
That's why there are 4 USB-C/TB3 ports on the new MacBook Pros (2 on the
cheapest one). The new iMac only has 2 USB-C/TB3 ports, but also retains all
the legacy ones.
So the only issue is with the 12" MacBook and its single USB-C port. Yep,
that's a point of failure, but for it's intended users it's alright. On
previous laptops you'd be screwed if you lost your AC adapter port anyway.
------
VeejayRampay
Note that for every single one of those dongles, there are a handful of
manufacturers that offer the same quality for half the price. It's not an
issue that they have such a large offering for connectivity, it's that their
items are overpriced, I mean $30 for a Lightning to 30-pin adapter, what a
racket.
------
plussed_reader
This reminds me of the dongle hell of the 90's; Apple had done so well once
Jobs got back onboard; it was at the end of his tenure that MDP took over, and
then Tbolt, that brought us right back into the nickel and diming, "we have a
$30-80 solution for your problem."
------
vivab0rg
First-world problems
------
nkkollaw
This title is ridiculous. I'm not even going to click on it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Live Hackathon. Creating Online Markdown Editor for API documentation. - superpow
Hi guys,<p>We are a San Diego based startup that is doing a hackathon this weekend. We are working on an internal project to publish and maintain documentation without any software installation. Over the next 2 days we are doing an internal hackathon to celebrate a co-founder's birthday. We would love to get your feedback.<p>Check out the description of the hackathon project here: http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/ome-docs/DOCUMENTATION.md<p>Help us decide which of these potential features we should implement on 10/17 and 10/18. http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/ome-docs/DOCUMENTATION.md#feature-ideas<p>This is a LIVE HACKATHON, so we'd love it if you can pop into the chatroom to learn about how you use documentations. http://tlk.io/ii_hackathon
======
monkeyspaw
This is Travis from the team doing the live hackathon. We'd love to have
people stop by the chat room and offer feedback. We'll also check this page
somewhat regularly.
Right now, it just views markdown documentation, pulling from GitHub. We'd
like to add a tie in with Github's issue tracker (issues / questions about the
documentation), some customizable styling, and an inline editor (so you can
edit your documentation inline, and it'll push the changes back to your repo).
We're planning to open source the whole thing once we add issues, inline
editing, and fix a few bugs.
Clickable links: Project Description -
[http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/ome-
doc...](http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/ome-
docs/DOCUMENTATION.md)
Feature Ideas - [http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/ome-
doc...](http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/ome-
docs/DOCUMENTATION.md#feature-ideas)
Live Hackathon Chat - [http://tlk.io/ii_hackathon](http://tlk.io/ii_hackathon)
Looking forward to hearing the community's feedback.
------
bjones
Hi! This is Brian, part of the team working on this project.
Here are the original API Docs that we built the project for:
[http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/cortex-...](http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/docs/tbrianjones/cortex-
api-docs/DOCUMENTATION.md)
Here's a link to the project's homepage:
[http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/](http://www.onlinemarkdowneditor.com/)
------
superpow
Has anyone tried this one?
[http://www.javascriptspellcheck.com/](http://www.javascriptspellcheck.com/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Pursuit of Emptyness by John Perry Barlow - dedalus
http://w2.eff.org/Misc/Publications/John_Perry_Barlow/HTML/The_Pursuit_of_Emptyness.html
======
mark_l_watson
Thoughtful essay that I bet rubs some people the wrong way. I permanently
delicio.us bookmarked this, but I am not sure which of my friends and family
(if any) I'll send the URL to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Note-Taking Editor with LaTeX Math Based on VS-Code - fango
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336554675_A_Note-taking_Editor_for_Authoring_Markdown_Documents_containing_Math_Formulas
======
lioeters
The article is about the following VS Code extension for writing Markdown with
math formulas using LaTeX syntax.
[https://github.com/goessner/mdmath](https://github.com/goessner/mdmath)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
If you don't know how to program - noelchurchill
and you have a relatively simple web app you want to make, where do you start. What scripting language would be best to learn on? All the RoR buzz started to lead me in that direction and I bought the agile web dev book, but now I'm not sure if that is the best place to start. Now I'm more thinking about PHP. It's simple and very forgiving. From an unexperienced programmer, it seems much easier to just hack something together. <p>Any other input? Thanks!
======
bootload
SEIA, "Software Engineering for Internet Applications".
\- online, free <http://philip.greenspun.com/seia/>
\- in print
[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0262511916/pgreenspun...](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0262511916/pgreenspun-20)
\- test crashed dummied by armies of MIT grads
\- smart authors
\- easy to read, lots to master
More suggestions from similiar question ~
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=58927>
------
run4yourlives
I'd learn Python honestly. It's very concise and can take you from nothing to
something without needing to change languages.
RoR might be a little difficult for a newbie, and PHP is going to give you a
lot of bad habits that you'll eventually need to break.
------
nextmoveone
The most important part is to just start, as soon as possible somewhere. Cause
you'll pick up on common practices as you go along, plus you need as much
experience as possible to produce a good app.
------
davidlee
What do you want to gain from it?
If you want to learn a lot of good practices and maintain and extend your
codebase in the future, RoR is fantastic - but may be a steep learning curve
due to all the new concepts and levels of abstraction involved, and is
somewhat harder to deploy, and probably somewhat more expensive to host.
If you want to "hack something together quickly" to deploy cheaply on any of a
wide range of hosting providers, PHP provides a famously productive way to
make a mess^H^H^H^H simple web app.
------
gscott
When I first learned a scripting language I learned from examples, go here for
lots of free examples: <http://www.codango.com/>. Besides scripting learn sql
and how to normalize tables.
------
german
Lets start from the beginning: It's a Webapp right?... so, I asume you already
know HTML and CSS, or maybe Flash...
If you don't, start learning it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Idea dump, December edition - jacquesm
http://jacquesmattheij.com/idea+dump%2C+December+edition
======
weego
(69) The Never Ending Story
I came up with and specced out something like this for a school which never
got passed the planning stage. The idea was more simple in that there was a
seed story, and then the kids took a word or phrase from the seed story and
that was the title of their story, with the chosen word/phrase becoming a link
(it was a user-friendly wiki in effect). This could be repeated to infinite
depth and words/phrases could link to more than one story (or partially
overlap etc).
I still have it in perpetual inactive development.
~~~
jeromec
I watched a Never Ending Story play out long ago (possibly it was on a
Lulu.com forum?). Absolutely horrible. You mix in bad writers with worse
writers, and just when you come across a half-decent page some other author
whisks the story off in a totally different direction.
~~~
haraball
What if people could continue the story tree horizontally, and continue on the
part they found most interesting? Then the parts with the most "continuations"
could get a higher ranking and therefore shape the best story at the
(never)end.
~~~
jeromec
That does sound like it could result in an improvement, but the tree would
grow quite large I imagine! :) Each writer would have to read each horizontal
version to decide where to continue, and I'm betting there would be multiple
continuation points, too, so it would start to look like the exponential
story, especially with a virtually endless supply of writers. Crowd-sourced
writing is a fun idea, but I think at best it might be an activity writers do
to stay creatively loose.
------
user24
(64) ABtimise - see also genetify, snapads
Not saying that it's a problem that "the simpsons did it", just that it might
be interesting to see what their approach is and what can be learned from it.
------
mashmac2
(66) Unbrainwash
Isn't this Fox News... Fair and Unbalanced :)
On a more serious note... I wonder if it is possible to measure bias of each
news source and use some sort of language processing to combine bias.
Google is certainly thinking about a similar topic... see yesterday's article
about sentiment analysis: [http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/being-bad-
to-your-cus...](http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/being-bad-to-your-
customers-is-bad-for.html) (it was on HN too somewhere...)
------
hanibash
I have an idea: Take Facebook's approach to groups (the auto-add feature), and
apply it to a dating website.
It might turn out that this approach could replace siloed dating websites
(e.g. Christian, Jewish, BBW) into organically formed dating groups all on the
same website.
It's like taking the idea of <http://thread.com/> one step further.
------
joebananas
Yeah, I don't see how 66 is ever gonna work as long as it's done by humans.
~~~
Semiapies
Sure, so long as you're willing to accept that "unbiased" will only mean
"pointing out when _everyone else's_ biases come into play*. :D
------
gaustin
(67) ClickApp
I built something similar at a previous job. I never really thought that
anyone outside the domain it was built for would use it.
Now this has got me thinking about it again...
I wonder if it could be marketed to the same sorts of folks who use
SurveyMonkey and whatever that contact form builder company is called (it
pisses me off that I can't remember the name of it at the moment).
~~~
honopu
maybe wufoo?
~~~
gaustin
That's it.
------
hanibash
I've always thought it would be interesting to take the genetic algorithm
approach on Facebook ads. But instead keep the ad display the same, and do an
A/B on customer demographics and interests.
The surprising and amusing patterns you find would alone make it worth it.
------
jcfrei
(63) Chattical reminds me of my own project a while back: <http://askcue.com>
feel free to try it. As a sidenote: if I remember correctly I had the idea
around december in 2009.
------
thedangler
Should just make an app for facebook for dating :) have all the people you
need.
------
alnayyir
These ideas are intended to be fun little weekend hacks and not serious
businesses right?
Figured I'd ask because I clicked hoping for something else and wondered if I
was the only one that did so.
~~~
user24
I wrote up ten of my ideas with some more detail, if that's what you're
looking for: <http://www.puremango.co.uk/2010/10/ten-ideas/>
~~~
twymer
In response to your imCaptcha idea, have you ever seen
<http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/> ?
~~~
user24
yeah I played with that a while ago; a clever way to experiment with
crowdsourced image labelling. It would be interesting to see their results.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Obama lawyers asked secret court to ignore public court's decision on spying - uptown
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/09/obama-fisa-court-surveillance-phone-records
======
randomname2
As a The Guardian reporter summarized:
June 2, 6:03pm: Obama says he'll sign law banning bulk collection.
June 2 9:50pm: DOJ asks secret court for 180 more days of bulk collection
— Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman) June 8, 2015
~~~
MrZongle2
The explanation is simple, really. The 6:03pm action was by _Candidate_ Obama,
whereas the later one was at the direction of _President_ Obama. Two different
guys, you know.
------
mkempe
Let's quit pretending that Obama's _lawyers_ were responsible for this action.
_Obama_ is clearly in favor of the surveillance state. Who will do anything
about that?
------
shit_parade2
No worries, the secret laws totally make this legal, honest!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
AS3 Bitwise gems - fast integer math - RWilson
http://lab.polygonal.de/2007/05/10/bitwise-gems-fast-integer-math/
======
mahmud
Interested parties can also look at how the Tamarin VM implements those
bitwise opcodes natively.
<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/>
Flash opcodes into Nanojit IR:
[http://hg.mozilla.org/tamarin-central/raw-
file/4eb9f961a087/...](http://hg.mozilla.org/tamarin-central/raw-
file/4eb9f961a087/nanojit/LIR.h)
Nanojit IR to native x86 translation tables?
[http://hg.mozilla.org/tamarin-central/raw-
file/4eb9f961a087/...](http://hg.mozilla.org/tamarin-central/raw-
file/4eb9f961a087/nanojit/Nativei386.h)
~~~
RWilson
Nice! That's great to hear, since it's always perplexing when native code
ISN'T the fastest... Kind of makes you have to ask, "If there is a better way,
why isn't that the native way?" But, for Tamarin, that question will be moot.
------
pmjordan
I don't do flash, but I was under the impression that there's some kind of
compilation going on and ActionScript isn't just interpreted. How on earth
does a modern compiler not optimise
a / 64
to
a >> 6
? I could understand it in a dynamically typed language, where a, and
therefore the result, could be non-integer, but ActionScript seems to have
static type declarations for variables.
~~~
swolchok
This isn't even "modern" in compiler terms, it's a simple peephole
optimization. (grep through the IR, check for "X / 2^n", replace by "X >> n")
To get it right when you have
int a;
int b = 64;
a / b
requires dataflow analysis so you can do constant propagation, copy
propagation, and dead code elimination. This is more work to get right, but
that's not a very good excuse for not at least doing the peephole
optimization.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Scaling the GitLab database - koolba
https://about.gitlab.com/2017/10/02/scaling-the-gitlab-database/
======
koolba
> Sticky connections are supported by storing a pointer to the current
> PostgreSQL WAL position the moment a write is performed. This pointer is
> then stored in Redis for a short duration at the end of a request. Each user
> is given their own key so that the actions of one user won't lead to all
> other users being affected. In the next request we get the pointer and
> compare this with all the secondaries. If all secondaries have a WAL pointer
> that exceeds our pointer we know they are in sync and we can safely use a
> secondary for our read-only queries. If one or more secondaries are not yet
> in sync we will continue using the primary until they are in sync. If no
> write is performed for 30 seconds and all the secondaries are still not in
> sync we'll revert to using the secondaries in order to prevent somebody from
> ending up running queries on the primary forever.
Interesting approach. Kind of halfway between async replication and a per
client synchronous commit.
Why wait for all of the slave databases to be in sync? If at least one is in
sync, can you get all database interactions in the application to the valid
subset?
Snippet of code from the article:
query = "SELECT NOT pg_is_in_recovery() OR " \
"pg_xlog_location_diff(pg_last_xlog_replay_location(), #{string}) >= 0 AS result"
> Here WAL-POINTER is the WAL pointer as returned by the PostgreSQL function
> pg_current_xlog_insert_location(), which is executed on the primary. In the
> above code snippet the pointer is passed as an argument, which is then
> quoted/escaped and passed to the query.
Why escape the input and use string interpolation instead of a parameter?
~~~
YorickPeterse
Sorry for the late reply!
> Why wait for all of the slave databases to be in sync? If at least one is in sync,
> can you get all database interactions in the application to the valid subset?
If queries fail on the replica we'll cycle through the available replicas
until we have one that works. If we didn't wait for all to be in sync it could
in theory be possible we'd retry our query on a host that does not yet have
the data, though this would be very unlikely. So basically we're being a bit
paranoid here.
> Why escape the input and use string interpolation instead of a parameter?
Rails doesn't really provide an easy way of doing this unfortunately. That is,
to run raw queries you'll use something like this:
ActiveRecord::Base.connection.execute 'your query here'
This particular API doesn't support passing any parameters, so you have to
resort to manually escaping data and using string interpolation.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Introducing Instagram Reels - theBashShell
https://about.instagram.com/blog/announcements/introducing-instagram-reels-announcement/
======
wojcikstefan
This flips the typical narrative of "Chinese companies copy our products and
their government lets them" on its head. I understand why this is a valid
business move, but I think that the sense of moral superiority over China that
is so pervasive in conversations with Americans is even less credible now.
~~~
pjc50
Realistically, a lot of companies copy each other's products and features,
within the American tech scene. The cure - software patents - is worse than
the disease; remember Amazon's one click patent?
How many team chat apps appeared after Slack, for example?
~~~
nicoburns
> The cure - software patents - is worse than the disease
Might that not also apply to preventing Chinese companies copying American
hardware products or manufacturing processes?
~~~
pjc50
Maybe? Intellectual property is a huge sprawling topic that arguably needs
different treatment for different kinds of thing. Do you have specific
allegations in mind?
------
matsemann
Copying snapchat to make stories. TikTok to make Reels. And fb originally
bought Instagram. Can the big players just copy or buy every competitor at
some point and remain on top?
~~~
cblconfederate
did they hurt their competitors by copycatting stuff? It seems like tiktok has
a different user base that does not overlap with the way ppl use instagram.
~~~
ceejayoz
> did they hurt their competitors by copycatting stuff?
They kneecapped Snapchat pretty effectively when they stole the story feature,
first in Instagram and then in Facebook proper.
------
thehappypm
Instagram Stories were not quite a Snapchat-killer, but they did take a huge
chunk of the Snapchat market share. This could be similar.
~~~
raiyu
They weren't a Snapchat killer but they immediately cut off future growth and
stalled it out for a solid 2-3 years.
You don't have to kill the competition in social to win, you just need to stop
their growth. They can retain some percentage of users but if the growth is
stalled out and you are dominate them in 5:1 marketshare it's as good as dead.
------
csours
Do it for the Reels?
I'm not sure the tone of Instagram really agrees with the content of TikTok,
which feels like it picked up where Vine left off.
~~~
robjan
The picture / TV sharing feature of Instagram is curated while stories tend to
be a bit more candid in my experience. Think this is trying to add another
level of more transient sharing.
------
rglover
Should've called it "Moments" or "Memes."
~~~
BiasRegularizer
I personally like the name Reels, it implies a level curation needed in the
process.
------
ChefboyOG
I wonder if this will work as well as Stories did. I mean, technologically it
will, sure, but if you start with the customer in mind, Snapchat is not
TikTok.
Instagram and Snapchat share the same market. Like Facebook, they originated
among college students, and became the default platforms of that young adult
demographic. Instagram copying Snapchat features is brutal to Snapchat because
Snapchat power users were probably Instagram/Facebook power users as well.
TikTok and Musical.ly, as has been written to death by tech journalists, are
much more dominate in a younger demographic. They're sort of unique among
social platforms in their ability to do so. I wonder if Instagram has enough
penetration in that demographic to really syphon off a meaningful chunk of
users, or if this will just block Instagram's existing users from migrating?
~~~
cameronbrown
Anecdata for sure, but my younger aged family members (and their general age
group) on TikTok are all on Instagram.
~~~
kenjackson
Another data point. My sons group are all on both, but no one actively uses
IG. TikTok is their app of choice. My son says IG is boring. I think Reels has
a major uphill journey.
------
Miner49er
I see the advantage of tying it in with Instagram, I think it will help user
growth early on, but I think it will likely inhibit growth later on. What
exactly are you signing up for when you sign up for Instagram? Are you signing
up for Reels, OG Instagram, or Stories? Stories at least sort of made sense
with the original Instagram, but Reels doesn't feel like a fit at all to me.
The bloat of the app at this point seems like a barrier to using it.
Maybe they'll be able to spin off a separate Reels app as well at some point?
That's the only way I'd ever be interested in it.
------
Spivak
I feel like IG missed the mark with the 15 second video limit if they want an
actual competitor to TT. The really really good TT content: original
songwriters and musicians, semi-pro chefs, artists, woodworking,
blacksmithing, skateboarding, sewing, just really passionate nerds teaching or
showing off their skills benefit from longer-form videos.
The format of TT has made it really easy for people to share their hobbies but
isn't plagued by the Wadsworth Constant.
------
caiobegotti
Who couldn't see this coming, honestly? Zero surprises and it's the obvious
move to try to consolidate a market in which they are pretty big already.
------
arusahni
I'm hoping, as they push more to support creation, they address their
compression/encoding on Android devices.
On my Pixel, the only way I can get high-quality videos in my stories is by
recording using the Camera app, and then sharing to Instagram. If I add any
text/sticker/overlay, the final video has obvious artifacting.
------
yalogin
Kinda lines up well with MS talking with tiktok. Wonder why MS wants tiktok
still? The US and India banned them and now Instagram copied them too. I do t
know how the inluencers move across social networks but why would users stick
to tiktok? In that scenario why would MS want it unless its for an extravagant
discount?
~~~
Kye
They might want the people working on it who know how to work with video.
------
romanovcode
I have to say they are really annoying in "Explore" tab because they take more
than half of the screen-space.
------
g5becks
I can remember a slew of video based apps that Instagram killed when it added
video in the early days - Viddy, SocialCam, Kik, Vine, they were all in
competition and Instagram came and ate their lunch, then did the same to
Snapchat, now tiktok.
------
strikelaserclaw
at what point is competition stifled when large companies can just totally
copy competition by throwing money at something. In ten years, we will have an
American Samsung.
~~~
jp57
It is an interesting definition of competition if you can stifle it by
allowing competitors who offer very similar or identical products.
When I was a kid that _was_ competition.
~~~
strikelaserclaw
i speak in the spirit of creating an environment that doesn't allow large
companies to destroy small companies by copying their ideas or buying them
out, which i believe is beneficial to society at large in the longer run. It
is my fundamental belief that if left unchecked, large tech companies will
become monopolies in their fields (which might already have happened).
------
xwowsersx
This is a response to TikTok, I guess?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Children told lies by parents lie more as adults - EndXA
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191002102759.htm
======
borghives
what does lying more as adults equate to?
Edit: found the answer in the article:
The analysis found that parenting by lying could place children at a greater
risk of developing problems that the society frowns upon, such as aggression,
rule-breaking and intrusive behaviours.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: FlyByChat, the site I'm working on. Looking for feedback. - bdr
http://beta.flybychat.com/
======
spking
I'd suggest making a single, clear call to action. Perhaps "Chat anonymously
with a random partner" would be the best option to drive attention to first,
since it requires the least effort and commitment from the user. I'd make the
button say something like "Start a Chat Now!", with smaller subtext to the
effect of "100% Anonymous and Fun".
~~~
bdr
Good feedback. I was worried about that. Thanks.
~~~
veemjeem
You should tell people that the global chat room isn't anonymous, and that
their facebook profile will be linked in the chat room. It's always bad when
users have to find out from other users that they aren't anonymous.
------
Yesh
\- UI is nice. Excellent idea. Was able to quickly use the site and chat with
two people.
\- The space to say something is small. \- Can improve on giving more visual
feedback \- First panel should be anonymous chat \- Easy way to enter your
anonymous profile \- There was a javascript alert window that pop up (maybe
debug message or something) \- .. Unable to connect.. \- .. Down for
maintenance ... \- The icon to add more panel should be more clear. It sort of
surprise me. \- Ability to maximize a panel (I suppose I can delete the other
panels)
~~~
bdr
Thanks. Yeah, it was down for maintenance for a few minutes there.
------
jrnkntl
I'd like to see when my chat partner is actually active (like in typing) and
stuff or update the title bar of the window.
also an option to enlarge the chat window would be nice.
~~~
bdr
When you say enlarge, are you thinking of resizing the windows horizontally?
------
mechanical_fish
To me (Safari 5/Mac) this site is a big blue screen with no content except an
"About" link that doesn't work. I waited five to ten seconds before giving up.
I'm using a 3G connection which may be flaky, so maybe I'm just suffering from
extreme latency. Nevertheless, you should probably try to show at least a
sentence on initial page load to keep me curious enough to suffer through
another few seconds...
~~~
bdr
Yeah, the site works on Safari 5, so it must be latency. In particular,
sometimes the external Facebook JS takes a long time to load. I'll add a
loading message. Thanks!
------
petervandijck
Nice idea, but it hangs on "finding partner", which kind of sucks (I closed
the window after about 30 secs)
~~~
bdr
I think the hanging is probably that there was no one else looking. You don't
have cookies disabled, do you?
~~~
sev
Might be a good idea to let the user know that's the case so that they don't
mistake it with hanging.
------
bdr
Submitter here. Thanks for checking out my site. I'm looking for feedback on
all levels: the UI and implementation, the product idea, and the market.
Particular questions: do you "know what to do" when you get to the site? Is it
ugly? What would make you use a site like this?
The idea here is to iterate in the same space as ChatRoulette, towards the
goal of becoming the best place to meet new people online. There are some
obvious directions to go in, like adding video, dating features (FB'
Interested In/Looking For), and locale support, and maybe some not so obvious
ones, but I'd like to hear what you think.
~~~
veemjeem
isn't omegle anonymous chat too?
~~~
bdr
? Yes, Omegle supports anonymous chat.
------
veemjeem
On chrome, it looks a little strange. The chat window is all compressed into
one line.
<http://imgur.com/ldNpV>
~~~
bdr
It doesn't do that on mine. :|
What OS + version of Chrome are you using? What happens if you resize the
browser window?
Thanks for taking the time to get a screenshot, I appreciate that.
------
ent
The ui is very nice, I really like the ability to add more chat windows side
by side. The obvious problem is that there don't seem to be very many people
online.
~~~
bdr
Thank you. This post is the first place I've announced the site, so it makes
sense that there aren't a lot of people on. I think I'll try to get some more
now.
------
arram
Nice - the location features are something I definitely wanted while messing
around on Chatroulette and Omegle.
------
malloc
Looks great, the site. Would add sound notification on message arrival
(optional).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Show HN: Bribeshare – More Social Sharing - bribeshare
Hello,<p>I launched <a href="https://www.bribeshare.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.bribeshare.com/</a> because I wanted some friends to share things on my behalf, then I thought why not allow everyone to share when they come to my blog/website. That way I could achieve organic, referral and viral website traffic.<p>As a business owner, I also wanted to do something different than everyone else, and who else pays customers to share especially when it's not planned? It was important to me to maintain the organic philosophy.<p>We tend to get more of what we incentivize..<p>So Bribeshare allows you to embed social share buttons, which allow you to "bribe" visitors to share.<p>You can see an example at: <a href="https://www.itstimeforgreatness.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.itstimeforgreatness.com</a><p>Please comment, like, share.<p>Open for feedback of any kind.<p>Please don't hesitate to email me at [email protected]<p>All my best,<p>Hikmet
======
sharemywin
That's against most terms of service.
~~~
bribeshare
Hi,
what is?
If you have seen that anywhere, please bring it to my attention.
Thank you for the comment!
~~~
sharemywin
You must not incentivize people to use social plugins or to like a Page. This
includes offering rewards, or gating apps or app content based on whether or
not a person has liked a Page. It remains acceptable to incentivize people to
login to your app, check in at a place or enter a promotion on your app’s
Page. To ensure quality connections and help businesses reach the people who
matter to them, we want people to like Pages because they want to connect and
hear from the business, not because of artificial incentives. We believe this
update will benefit people and advertisers alike.
[https://blog.justuno.com/understanding-facebooks-new-
policie...](https://blog.justuno.com/understanding-facebooks-new-policies-on-
incentivizing-users)
~~~
bribeshare
Hello again,
thanks for this.
However this is not at all what we are doing.
We allow you to embed social share buttons, on your website.
We dont tell anyone to like anything or don't incentivize likes.
Have you read a blog post and there was share buttons? Well, all we do is
allow the business to pay someone a dollar or whatever the advertiser has
specified as their pay per share budget.
Then the visitor just shares with their friends to encourage more people to
come and check out the blog post.
Our goal is to reward that person who's going out of their way to share.
Hopefully that helps.
If not, please don't hesitate to message, comment or email.
All the best
~~~
sharemywin
My thinking is even if you get around that your going to get a lot of
"marginal" sharers with a bunch of bot followers.
you would need to have feedback of the companies success.
~~~
bribeshare
Agreed, so we made sure that in order for a share to be approved. We first
need one unique click on the shared post. That way, fake accounts can share
all they want, but advertiser will not be charged until a unique click has
been made.
Also, the app tracks the sharing accounts. The same account can't earn more
than once even if they share 100 times.
Once again, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. It helps me
iron out the wrinkles.
ALL THE BEST!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pocket Sized Virtual Reality Device - prbuckley
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/smartvr-make-your-phone-a-virtual-reality-viewer/x/7469849#/
======
n-gauge
I wonder how this would work without any magnetic switches - just that having
made my own cardboard viewer for a nexus 7 and without the magnetic switch you
have to tap the screen somehow which breaks the experience (for me)
~~~
prbuckley
Hi, Designer of the VR device posted here. The bottom of the viewer is open so
you can touch the screen with your thumb. We really wanted to make the most
sharable VR device so we focused on simplifying and making it fit into a
pocket.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using Rust for Monitoring 30k API Calls per Minute - yannikyeo
https://hackernoon.com/using-rust-for-monitoring-30k-api-calls-per-minute-ec193u37
======
dragonsh
Just waiting for it to show up on the front page of HN, given it has the magic
"Rust" in it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Gravity Waves and Neutrinos: The Later Work of Joseph Weber - dnetesn
http://mitp.nautil.us/article/162/gravity-waves-and-neutrinos
======
yodon
As someone who was peripherally involved in this field I'm very glad this
history of science was recorded and hope the author repeats the analysis for
the context around the Ligo project.
When I was in grad school getting my PhD in Physics, I was interested in doing
gravity wave searches for high frequency gravity waves using arrays of small,
inexpensive, cryogenically cooled Weber bars. This was at the time when Ligo
was being built to search for much lower frequency waves at much higher costs.
I found the sociology around both the Weber and Ligo work fascinating then and
in hindsight, and I personally ascribe the complex sociology to the incredible
difficulty of these incredibly sensitive experiments. Detecting gravity waves
is one of the hardest experiments an experimental physicist can attempt
(numbers like 10^-23 and 10^-51 are not uncommon to encounter in your
sensitivity calculations, for example, and it doesn't really matter what units
you're talking about if you're trying to measure something with 10^-51 in it,
it's going to be incredibly difficult). My read was and is that the physics
community understands the risks these researchers are taking to their careers
by engaging in experiments of this incredible difficulty and cuts them slack
or gives them an underlying cushion of respect for what they are doing because
everyone knows they are probably going to fail and it is ultimately likely to
be a fall on your sword effort for the benefit of trying to advance a very
difficult aspect of our knowledge.
I can attest to the author's observations of the complexity of the continued
respect for Weber even in the context of complete and universal disregard for
his experimental results. He wasn't viewed as a crank or a laughing stock,
even though everyone knew the story of finding a spurious signal in data that
he'd failed to correct for differences in time zones between detectors. It was
much closer to someone you respect very much who one day hooked his laptop up
to the projector in the board room, opened it, and accidentally projected
weird disturbing porn on the screen by mistake. He screwed up, everyone knew
that, but he was still respected for all the other work he had done and no one
took any joy or mirth in his screwup, nor did they really want to talk about
it or bring it up (I suspect I spent more time poking around the historical
periphery of Weber bars than most anyone other than the author of this paper,
because I was seriously considering treading into this field and placing
myself at risk of doing a very very hard experiment, with the added factor
that I was proposing to go after high frequency gravity waves of a sort no one
in the physics community had a source type in mind for, so it would have been
doubly risky, a hard experiment looking for a signal that probably wasn't
there but that I felt should still be looked for, if only to place a limit on
the magnitude of the background).
I mentioned hoping the author writes a similar paper on Ligo. Ligo was a huge
success, as everyone expected. Rai Weiss[0] was (is) a brilliant experimental
physicist (and a very kind and helpful mentor to me when I was an
undergraduate starting to think about alternative ways to detect gravity
waves, he graciously gave me many hours of his time to bounce around crazy
ideas and help with difficult calculations).
Back to the sociology, as much as I and everyone else respected Rai, I didn't
go work on Ligo because it looked clear to me there were two answers Ligo
could get: It could detect gravity waves at about the level everyone expected
colliding black holes to produce (in which case everyone would say "It was an
incredibly difficult experiment but they pulled it off" and a Nobel Prize
would likely get awarded) or they could fail to see them/see way to many of
them (in which case the community would say "Rai's a really smart guy but it
was just a very hard experiment to do"). I simply didn't see any way that the
community would actually increase it's actual Shannon information level about
gravity waves significantly in response to Ligo, because the community had
such a big Baysean probability factor folded in to its planned assessment of
whatever the eventual outcome would be.
Fortunately, Rai (and others) were really smart, and really good
experimentalists, and they did get "the right answer" having taken a great
risk in doing so, and they are rightly respected for it, in somewhat the same
way that Joe Weber was still respected in the community when I was thinking
about these things back in the late 80's and early 90's (it's possible things
have changed as the people who knew Weber personally have retired and/or
passed away and his memory has been replaced by that of the actually,
genuinely successful Ligo, I've been out of the field for too long to have
current info there).
Anyway, thanks to @dnetesn for posting this and bringing good memories to mind
for me.
[0][https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainer_Weiss](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainer_Weiss)
~~~
eveningcoffee
Incredible story! Thank you for posting it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Asterisks in Python - ingve
http://treyhunner.com/2018/10/asterisks-in-python-what-they-are-and-how-to-use-them/
======
zmmmmm
This is one of those areas where I find Python a little contradictory. About
50% of the time it's "explicit is better than implicit" and "there should be
one and only one good way" and then the other half of the time it's "here's
this cool feature for doing something you could do a different way that looks
like hieroglyphics and nobody understands but you should totally use it
because it's awesome!
~~~
pavlov
This is one of the things that gets me about Python.
It makes this big noise about being a super-friendly form of executable
pseudocode, but then you open any code example and the first thing you see is
two asterisks and the mysterious word "kwargs" (a Swedish dessert perhaps?).
I wouldn't mind except for all the haughty pretense about Python being a
language that doesn't do this sort of thing. Dear Python, get a grip, you're
just another ASCII-abusing interpreted monstrosity like Perl, you just decided
to make programmer life suck with whitespace instead.
~~~
yxhuvud
Aside: Swedish does have the word 'kvarg', which is a product made out of sour
milk. Some people eat it for breakfast but personally I can't stand it.
~~~
nickelcitymario
This is legitimately my favourite comment of the day.
------
th0ma5
I've been programming with Python for over a decade. I mostly understand, but
I do try to avoid when possible for maximum clarity. Expanding function
variables is fine and clear enough, but multiple levels deep in a
comprehension and it can get pretty thick to try and keep it all straight.
This article is nice that it covers all the patterns I've seen.
~~~
soVeryTired
Honest question: why would anyone make a list comprehension that's multiple
levels deep? Isn't the purpose of comprehensions to provide quick-and-dirty
inline for loops, where a full for loop is too verbose?
~~~
bjourne
People who come from math backgrounds often becomes infatuated with
complicated list comprehensions when they realize that they can be used as
set-builder notation. {(x,y) for x in range(10) for y in range(10) if y ==
2*x}
~~~
analog31
I use stuff like that. But my rule of thumb is that I try and make it readable
by breaking it up into multiple lines and using indentation. If I can't make
it readable, then I will consider another way of writing it. This is mainly
for self preservation, since I'm likely to be the person who has to read it
later.
------
bpchaps
Unrelated to the article: the 'x' on the newsletter popup doesn't work on
mobile. Makes the article very difficult to read. If the author is reading
this, you should fix that!
~~~
th
Thanks for reporting this issue!
------
cpsempek
> print(*more_numbers, sep=', ')
This alone makes me appreciate print as a function in py3.
~~~
sooheon
Now how much nicer would it be if even more things were functions, rather than
special syntax like here? This can be done with an `apply`.
~~~
nemetroid
I think the star syntax is a lot nicer than `apply`. Python actually had an
`apply` builtin, but it was deprecated in Python 2.3.
~~~
sooheon
Apply, and first class / higher order functions in general are good in
languages where they compose well. Python's * won't compose well.
~~~
quietbritishjim
To add a small footnote to the existing replies to this comment: A related,
but slightly different, function in the `functools` module (part of the Python
standard library) is the `partial` function. It is like apply() but returns a
function instead of calling the function and return its return value:
f1 = partial(f, 1, 2)
f2 = partial(f1, 3, 4)
f2(5, 6) # equivalent to f(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
It also supports kwargs.
------
reachtarunhere
The single * way to specify keyword only arguments is a total monstrosity.
~~~
masklinn
It's a logical and consistent outgrowth of the existence of *args, and having
(finally) allowed parameters after that (which would be keyword-only). I'm
sure you could make up other ways to do it, but not that they'd be any better.
------
tln
Whats with the / in the help for sorted?
Help on built-in function sorted in module builtins:
sorted(iterable, /, *, key=None, reverse=False)
~~~
dec0dedab0de
That is curious, it looks like it might just be a type-o in the documentation.
Since it is written in C and not python, it is not automatically generated.
But I don't know enough C to say for sure, maybe someone else can.
[https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/9dfa0fe587eae3626ffc9...](https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/9dfa0fe587eae3626ffc973680c6a17f35de3864/Python/bltinmodule.c#L2203)
~~~
jnwatson
Nope. It represents positional-only arguments. You can have positional-only
arguments for C function but not Python functions. Just a weird Python wart.
------
dec0dedab0de
my favorite cheat is using __locals() with string formatting something like
this:
def example_cheater(color, flavor, age):
template = 'I am {age} years old and I like to wear {color} hats and eat {flavor} icecream'
return template.format(**locals())
Obviously a contrived example, and it can be argued that using locals() is not
very pythonic, but I think it makes the code look much nicer.
~~~
avbor
In python 3.6 and up, that becomes
def example_cheater(color, flavor, age):
return f'I am {age} years old and I like to wear {color} hats and eat {flavor} icecream'
Even nicer!
~~~
sys_64738
Does this trip up pylint?
~~~
aportnoy
Trips up Vim's syntax highlighter.
------
runarberg
So this is like the rest and spread operator in javascript (`...`).
An interesting observation is that while python has separate operators for
lists ( * ) and dictionaries ( * * )—javascript has only `...`.
> You need to be careful when using __multiple times though. Functions in
> Python can’t have the same keyword argument specified multiple times, so the
> keys in each dictionary used with __must be distinct or an exception will be
> raised.
This is not an issue in javascript, the unpacked object with repeated keys
takes the value of the last one.
{...{a: 1}, ...{a: 2}}
// => {a: 2}
edit: formatting
~~~
kroltan
I suppose both observations are reminiscent of the fact that Python has
language-level support for named parameters. Given that named and sequential
parameters are treated differently everywhere in Python (sequential params
must be provided, keyword args are optional, amongst other things), it would
be extremely surprising behaviour if the run-time type of the value being
spread determined what kind of spread happened.
In JavaScript, the surrounding syntatical context solely decides if it's an
object or array splat. But since Python has 2 kinds of parameters, to preserve
obviousness when reading code using splats, they went with 2 operators for
each parameter kind, and then separated list and dictionary splat analogously.
~~~
int_19h
> it would be extremely surprising behaviour if the run-time type of the value
> being spread determined what kind of spread happened.
The other reason to distinguish * and double-* is because * works with any
iterable, and dicts are themselves iterables (of their keys). So you can
actually use * on dicts, it just does something different:
>>> d = {'a': 1, 'b' : 2}
>>> [*d]
['a', 'b']
You could arguably say that only * makes sense here since it's a list context.
But then, as you say, function calls would still be ambiguous because they
support both positional and named arguments. This keeps it all unambiguously
consistent in all contexts.
------
keyle
Side note... Why does everything needs to be bold on that page? It made
reading it very difficult.
~~~
th
I'm curious about what browser you're using.
Side note: I typically bold many sentences in my articles, but this is the
first article in a while where I actually bolded nearly no words at all. I
wonder what my other articles look like in your browser.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Erlang does scheduling (2013) - weatherlight
http://jlouisramblings.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-erlang-does-scheduling.html
======
pron
When Quasar was very young we had something very similar to Erlang's
reduction-based preemption; we later disabled it in favor of preemption on
communication only. The reason is this: suppose you have n cores. Now, suppose
you have a single fiber that hogs the core for a while. If this occurrence is
rare, reduction/time-slice preemption doesn't really help, because the
scheduler has n kernel threads, and one of them would steal the tasks
scheduled on the thread running the "runaway" fiber and all is well.
If, on the other hand this behavior is very common, and the number of fibers
exhibiting it is k, then if k > n, then you're in trouble no matter what
scheduling or preemption you do. k fibers that constantly ask for CPU they
can't have (because k > n) means that work is getting delayed and you're well
out of soft realtime territory.
So since n is small (say 8-60), and the number of fibers is large (10K-1M or
more), the number of fibers that can reasonably often require a lot of CPU
(and reduction/time-slice preemption) is very small compared to the total
number of fibers, and those would be special, well-known, fibers anyway
(remember that if a fiber needs a lot of CPU only occasionally, the many-
threaded scheduler handles that gracefully even without preemption as long as
most other fibers are well-behaved). In that case rather than base the
scheduler designed for ~1M fibers around the behavior of ~10 fibers just
doesn't make sense. It is far more efficient to simply run that CPU-hungry
code in plain-old kernel threads, and let the kernel worry about their
scheduling. In Quasar, unlike in Erlang, it's very simple to choose whether
code should run in a user-mode-scheduled fiber or in a kernel-scheduled
heavyweight thread, and so, after seeing that turning on reduction-based
preemption had no positive effect in practice, we turned that feature off.
------
rdtsc
Yap always a favorite by Jesper Louis Andersen
By the way, Erlang as of next release (19) will have dirty schedulers. That
will make it even easier to integrate blocking C modules into Erlang VM. Can
do it now of course but to do it right have to do your own thread + queue +
locking to avoid blocking schedulers.
Here is article from same author about it:
[https://medium.com/@jlouis666/erlang-dirty-scheduler-
overhea...](https://medium.com/@jlouis666/erlang-dirty-scheduler-
overhead-6e1219dcc7#.hsn4pc47e)
Checkout more of his writings:
[https://medium.com/@jlouis666](https://medium.com/@jlouis666)
------
daveguy
This is interesting. U have briefly looked at Erlang and I wonder a few
things, for any Erlang gurus:
1) A lot of this sounds like OS style scheduling. Does this reduce complexity
(maybe by Erlang dealing with various OS scheduling quirks?) or does this
increase complexity because now you have to deal with both the Erlang
scheduler and the OS scheduler.
2) It struck me as odd that he said, sending to a larger mailbox takes more
resources. Does that mean sending to a mailbox with a larger incoming queue
takes more as a way to balance queues or does that mean a mailbox with a
greater capacity takes more?
3) The preemption and soft-realtime sounds most interesting. Are there foreign
function interfaces that could allow you to get Erlang style concurrency with
other languages? Python (and a lot of others, but especially python) are
absolutely aweful at multitasking due to the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL),
with no intention by the developers to fix it. Could you magically add the
ability to preemptively slice Python code by adding it to an Erlang framework?
Would the overhead of Erlang+Python not be worth it? Usually in a language
like Erlang or Python you would call C for speed. Could you call C and get
preemption and scheduling on that too?
~~~
felixgallo
Not a guru, but:
1\. As with any multithreaded application, if your OS scheduler is heavily
loaded by other applications, you can experience issues. Erlang is designed to
degrade fairly slowly and fairly gracefully before it has to give up. From a
complexity standpoint, the programmer doesn't worry about schedulers of either
type except in rare cases.
2\. Sending to a larger mailbox doesn't take more resources, it takes more
reductions. So if a process has a large mailbox, it costs the sender more to
add yet another message into the mailbox. This is a form of backpressure and
helps slow down the system in a gentle(r) way when a single process is
bottlenecking.
3\. You can get Erlang style concurrency out of pony (natively), JVM languages
(scala/akka; quasar), but I doubt you could get it out of Python unless you
reimplemented Python on the BEAM or Java VM. Generally I find personally that
working directly in Erlang is fine and I don't need to combine in any
ruby/python/perl, which are all slightly less expressive than Erlang.
Calling C code works two ways; you can call it out-of-process via what's
called a port, which is basically a unix pipe to your C process; or in-process
via a NIF, which is more dangerous because the scheduler has no control or
understanding inside your C code. Carefully written NIFs, and NIFs written to
take advantage of the dirty scheduling system, can thrive, but it's both an
art and a science.
~~~
rozap
I don't want to be pedantic, but I'm going to be pedantic (sorry!)
You can get Erlang style concurrency out of ... JVM languages (scala/akka; quasar)
This is a little misleading. Yea, akka gives you actors, and on the surface
they look similar to erlang processes (they have a receive block, and a !
function call), but I think the more subtle differences are what make erlang
interesting, and ultimately really pleasant to work with 1) akka is not
preemptive multitasking. actors are multiplexed across a thread pool, so it's
possible to do blocking IO and screw a bunch of other actors up inadvertently
2) the whole gc thing that applies across the vm.
all sorts of wonderful things fall out of the two properties above, things
which you need to work really hard to get in an akka world.
as far as foreign interfaces to python, it's certainly possible with something
like jinterface, but I'm not really sure what the point would be. generally
you leave erlang behind for similar reasons you might leave python behind
(things that are cpu bound). jinterface exists because java does a whole bunch
of stuff well that erlang falls down at, so they can complement each other
nicely. I'm not sure there are as many of those cases with python.
~~~
phamilton
It is my understanding that quasar gives you something awfully close to
preemptive scheduling. It's not quite as strict as Erlang's reduction based
appproach, but it essentially provides implicit cooperative scheduling. It
allows you to do blocking IO without tying up execution.
On top of quasar, using Azul as the garbage collector will get you a GC
without Stop-The-World behavior on the JVM. It's neither open source nor cheap
though.
That said, I'm plenty happy with BEAM.
------
mietek
_> The cores may be bound to schedulers, through the +sbt flag, which means
the schedulers will not "jump around" between cores. It only works on modern
operating systems, so OSX can't do it, naturally._
That’s a bit out of date.
[https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/Perform...](https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/Performance/RN-
AffinityAPI/index.html)
~~~
cpeterso
Note that OS X's thread affinity APIs, unlike other operating systems, don't
allow to pin threads to specific processors. You can only define an "affinity
set" of threads that should be scheduled on the same processor. Similarly, you
can spread threads to different processors by assigning them to different
affinity sets.
I wrote some code to do this in Firefox for OS X, Linux, and Windows:
[https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-
central/source/xpcom/threads...](https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-
central/source/xpcom/threads/nsThread.cpp#302)
------
cpeterso
How does Erlang's reduction-counting scheduler work with native-compiled code?
I believe Go's scheduler only preempts goroutines at function call entry
points. A goroutine in a tight-loop, that doesn't call any other functions,
could block the scheduler.
~~~
felixgallo
native code can tell the schedulers how many reductions to take, but the
schedulers are actually cooperative and not literally preemptive, so poorly
written native code can lie, crash, consume a scheduler, etc.
~~~
cpeterso
By native code, I meant Erlang bytecode compiled using HiPE or an LLVM-based
JIT like [1], not Erlang calling out to NIFs. I assume the generated code
would need to insert preemption checks.
[1] [http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/516/SF-
JI...](http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/516/SF-JIT-Pres.pdf)
~~~
felixgallo
I believe the JIT work was experimental. Functions compiled with HiPE are
still subject to the reduction laws and calling into a HiPE function still
provides a preemption opportunity, so HiPE native functions are essentially
indistinguishable from erlang functions.
~~~
cpeterso
Interesting. Thanks!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Frustrated man charged by police after shooting his uncooperative computer - tim333
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/22/frustrated-man-charged-by-police-after-shooting-his-uncooperative-computer
======
DanBC
All In The Mind (BBC R4 programme about mental health) had an episode about
screen time, especially for teenagers.
One of the researchers being interviewed pointed outthat violence by teenagers
has been dropping since aboutthe mid 1990s, while games have been getting more
violent and graphic. He said that in his research the way you make people
violent is to make a game frustratig, not graphic or violent.
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05r3wgr](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05r3wgr)
------
s_dev
I was hoping to find out what OS he was running -- or is this even a relevant
thing to ask?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to make a simple 'vintage' HTML website but that will work on mobile? - mymythisisthis
How to make a simple 'vintage' html website but that will work on mobile?<p>I enjoy that static websites from the early web. I don't need anymore, don't want anymore.<p>How do I make one that works well on a mobile phone?<p>What are the best resources to read to do such a simple task?<p>Best standards for creating a simple static website of today?
======
leerob
I would recommend "Web Design in 4 Minutes" to understand how to use HTML/CSS
to make something simple, yet elegant.
[https://jgthms.com/web-design-in-4-minutes/](https://jgthms.com/web-design-
in-4-minutes/)
------
dylanhassinger
First step is just try adding a responsive meta tag to the head of your HTML
page:
[https://css-tricks.com/snippets/html/responsive-meta-tag/](https://css-
tricks.com/snippets/html/responsive-meta-tag/)
------
elamje
A great place to write and host the static page is
[https://repl.it](https://repl.it) You'll be able to code in the browser IDE,
then instantly see the changes reflected at their url, or your custom url.
Also a YC company
~~~
elamje
Sorry if this isn't your question, but it seems too good not to mention for
your task.
------
christophergray
You don't even need any CSS styling, because the default style with just HTML
will work fine on a mobile phone. This one-page document is all you need to
know for a simple site.
[https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Learn/Getting_start...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Learn/Getting_started_with_the_web/HTML_basics)
------
Ultramanoid
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19179407](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19179407)
------
the_jpg
Write little CSS as possible, this was the method that i used on my own [0],
and as you are at it, try to use little as possible of JS too (in my case i
use none)
[0] [http://jpg.computer](http://jpg.computer)
------
quickthrower2
[http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com](http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com)
is a basic start. Looks ok on mobile
------
cimmanom
Use only elements and CSS properties that were available in 1998.
Don’t use tables, which tend to force minimum widths. Don’t use large images.
Everything else should reflow automatically.
------
ohiovr
Really old vintage sites were just text. Using h1,h2,h3 tags you should have
text large enough to be readable. On the other hand is that vintage, or is
that archaeological?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Getting Deep Speech to Work in Mandarin - kornish
http://svail.github.io/mandarin/
======
weinzierl
The amazing part is that their system seems to be adaptable to any language
with a minimum of human effort.
> One of the reasons deep learning has been so valuable is that it has converted
> researcher time spent on hand engineering features to computer time spent on
> training networks.
[...]
> We can now train a model on 10,000 hours of speech in around 100 hours on a
> single 8 GPU node. That much data seems to be sufficient to push the state of the
> art on other languages. There are currently about 13 languages with more than one
> hundred million speakers. Therefore we could produce a near state-of-the-art
> speech recognition system for every language with greater than one hundred
> million users in about 60 days on a single node.
~~~
nshm
The effort definitely not minimal. You have to collect 10000 transcribed hours
first. This is not easy in many languages.
------
larakerns
I'm surprised it doesn't use Character Aware Neural Language Models (CNN ->
LSTM RNN) but instead a layered RNN. Interesting!
------
EliRivers
Facebook disallows some images, based on the personal standards of whoever
happens to be in charge of image disallowing that day. Google controls what
you see based on your own past, limiting your exposure to opinions you might
not like. Companies comply with oppressive government requests for control and
surveillance.
If we surrender our ability to communicate with people speaking in foreign
languages in this fashion, we will literally become unable to talk about
things that we "shouldn't", and everything we do talk about will be on
permanent record and monitored in real-time for dissent and to target adverts
at us.
------
romaniv
I keep reading about these algorithms that are "better than humans". Perfect
image recognition, perfect speech recognition, parsing plain text-queries and
answering questions, etc, etc. So where are the practical implementations?
All the speech recognition engines I've interacted with so far were awful. Not
just bad, awful.
_> Collecting such data sets could be very difficult and prohibitively
expensive._
Uh, movie subtitles?
~~~
amake
> Uh, movie subtitles?
Movie subtitles are very rarely actual transcriptions of what is spoken; they
are instead summaries, edited for brevity and quick comprehension.
I don't know much about what kind of corpora is required for training this
kind of model, but subtitles don't seem appropriate.
~~~
taneq
Is that necessarily a bad thing? Maybe if you're transcribing text for
dictation, but for many voice recognition uses, you would be happy with text
conveying the semantic content of the spoken text.
~~~
amake
This is really not my field, but my suspicion is It Just Doesn't Work Like
That.
~~~
taneq
Not my field either, but I wouldn't have thought that mere word proximity
would lead to something as interesting as word embeddings either, and they
seem to be a general purpose "input token -> semantic meaning" mapping, so who
knows? (Seriously, if someone does know, tell!)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Public speaking for introverts - vanwilder77
http://danshipper.com/public-speaking-for-introverts?utm_source=Dan%27s+Blog+List&utm_campaign=718f71be14-Newsletter_nice_design_17_8_11_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c18fe7384e-718f71be14-40620601
======
patio11
Some kids grow up on football. I grew up on public speaking (as behavioral
therapy for a speech impediment, actually). If you want to get radically
better in a hurry:
1) If you ever find yourself buffering on output, rather than making
hesitation noises, just pause. People will read that as considered
deliberation and intelligence. It's _outrageously_ more effective than the
equivalent amount of emm, aww, like, etc. Practice saying nothing. Nothing is
often the best possible thing to say. (A great time to say nothing: during
applause or laughter.)
2) People remember voice a heck of a lot more than they remember content. Not
vocal voice, but your authorial voice, the sort of thing English teachers
teach you to detect in written documents. After you have found a voice which
works for you and your typical audiences, you can exploit it to the hilt.
I have basically one way to start speeches: with a self-deprecating joke. It
almost always gets a laugh out of the crowd, and I can't be nervous when
people are laughing with me, so that helps break the ice and warm us into the
main topic.
3) Posture hacks: if you're addressing any group of people larger than a
dinner table, pick three people in the left, middle, and right of the crowd.
Those three people are your new best friends, who have come to hear you talk
but for some strange reason are surrounded by great masses of mammals who are
uninvolved in the speech. Funny that. Rotate eye contact over your three best
friends as you talk, at whatever a natural pace would be for you. (If you
don't know what a natural pace is, two sentences or so works for me to a first
approximation.)
Everyone in the audience -- both your friends and the uninvolved mammals --
will perceive that you are looking directly at them for enough of the speech
to feel flattered but not quite enough to feel creepy.
4) Podiums were invented by some sadist who hates introverts. Don't give him
the satisfaction. Speak from a vantage point where the crowd can see your
entire body.
5) Hands: pockets, no, pens, no, fidgeting, no. Gestures, yes. If you don't
have enough gross motor control to talk and gesture at the same time (no joke,
this was once a problem for me) then having them in a neutral position in
front of your body works well.
6) Many people have different thoughts on the level of preparation or
memorization which is required. In general, having strong control of the
narrative structure of your speech without being wedded to the exact ordering
of sentences is a good balance for most people. (The fact that you're coming
to the conclusion shouldn't surprise you.)
7) If you remember nothing else on microtactical phrasing when you're up
there, remember that most people do not naturally include enough transition
words when speaking informally, which tends to make speeches loose narrative
cohesion. Throw in a few more than you would ordinarily think to do. ("Another
example of this...", "This is why...", "Furthermore...", etc etc.)
~~~
shawnee_
This is a great list. Another one to add: (8) Don't underestimate the power of
audience participation. Being attuned to opportunities for questions as they
come up makes for a much more interesting experience (both for the speaker and
the audience) than laying down some speech.
Introverts can be really good at the "solutions rather than sales" aspect of
interacting -- which is why we tend to do better 1:1 with people than in big
groups.
~~~
reuven
Audience participation is highly dependent on culture, I've found.
When I give a talk or class in Israel, I can be sure that people will
interrupt me, ask questions, challenge my assertions, and generally push me to
explain what I'm saying. These interactions make things more interesting for
me, always teach me something new, and (I believe) also make the conversation
more relevant for other participants.
By contrast, my experience with American audiences is that they're much
quieter and reluctant to challenge me during the talk. They'll wait until the
formal question time at the end, and then raise issues.
And during the two classes that I gave in Beijing, participants were even
quieter than Americans -- although the second group I taught (this year) were
far more vocal than the ones I spoke last year, so it might have as much to do
with corporate culture and their English level as anything else.
Bottom line, try to get a sense of the audience, and how they expect to
interact with you. Then you can prepare an appropriate balance of prepared
notes vs. discussion with the participants.
Over time, you'll get better at making these judgments and estimates; like
everything else, public speaking is a skill that takes years to improve. But
it's a real rush to give a good talk, and to know that you've taught others
something that they didn't previously know. So do your best, and know that
next time, you'll hopefully do even better!
~~~
jlgreco
> _and (I believe) also make the conversation more relevant for other
> participants._
I believe this is a crapshoot. Many times audience participation is more
accurately described as "audience interruption and diversion". If you let
them, a single audience member can easily derail a presentation in ways that
all of the other audience members are not interested in.
~~~
reuven
Yes, a good lecturer knows (hopefully) how to realize that you're spending too
much time on irrelevant topics, or that you won't get to all of the material
you've planned to cover unless you move ahead. But it can sometimes be
difficult to handle such people.
------
trjordan
I know it's easy to say this is for introverts, but this applies to everybody.
Public speaking is hard: it's not natural to get up in front of a group of
people who aren't going to talk back, and talk for far longer than you'd ever
have to in conversation.
I'm a consummate extrovert, and I recently started doing more public speaking,
both in front of groups of 20-60 and webinar-style, over the phone with 1-5
people. Both were terrifying, and it still makes me nervous. I've been doing
it for about a year, and I'm just now starting to overcome the "Man, I hope
something comes up and we have to cancel" feeling.
Practice is the only way to get comfortable, and practice will make you
better.
~~~
vidarh
Not only does it apply to everybody, but I strongly believe it has nothing to
do with whether or not you're an introvert.
I find public speaking "easy". As a teenager I spent a couple of weeks in
front of rowdy groups of hundreds of school students during school election
debates for a fringe party that made me an ideal candidate for mockery. Didn't
phase me. I held the commencement speech at my university my first year in
front of thousands of students and TV crews, and people couldn't believe how
relaxed I was, but I didn't understand why there was anything to be nervous
about; I knew the manuscript and was after all just going to stand there and
deliver it. I've spoken to quite a few very varied large groups of people. I
don't react to that at all.
Smalltalk with strangers, on the other hand, takes a lot out of me. It's not
just that it triggers anxieties in some situations, but even when it doesn't,
it is exhausting: I have to concentrate much more to actually listen and take
part in conversations that happens for "social reasons" as opposed to about
specific subjects, as otherwise I miss cues etc. or simply will go silent.
I don't mind getting up in front of a crowd of any size without a manuscript
and deliver my message, even if I know it'll be unpopular, but if I'm in a
store, for example, I'd rather spend a couple of extra minutes looking around
rather than asking someone who works there to help me find something, because
one on one interactions with strangers are draining. I even have to
consciously avoid taking steps to "bypass" people I only know vaguely but who
I expect might want to talk to me as if I just go on "autopilot" I'll pick the
route that leads to the least amount of words exchanged.
Perhaps the "aren't going to talk back" part is what makes public speaking
feel easier for me, even when they actually do.
To me, those two things are entirely separate. I'm sure there are lots of
introverts that _also_ have problems with public speaking, but conversely I
know plenty of introverts other than myself who doesn't have a problem with
public speaking, and lots of extroverts who do.
~~~
pessimizer
I agree with this. Introvert/extrovert is another one of those stupid linear
continuums (continuua?) that people get socially diagnosed into that don't
particularly explain, just label. As a painfully shy person who didn't have
any problem being a frontman for touring bands for years, comfort and
discomfort with social situations is a subject more complicated than _yes you
are_ or _no you aren 't_.
~~~
saraid216
Introvert/extrovert does have real meaning, but people generally use it as a
sophisticated synonym for "shy/outgoing", which is utterly false.
~~~
auctiontheory
Thanks for pointing that out. I am somewhat shy and quite extroverted.
------
auctiontheory
1) Toastmasters.
2) Tim Ferriss's advice is surprisingly useful:
[http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/04/11/public-
speak...](http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/04/11/public-speaking-how-
i-prepare-every-time/)
~~~
msluyter
Yes to point 1.
I did Toastmasters for about a year and it had a _huge_ impact. They have a
systematic way of developing your skills (a set of 10 speeches designed to
focus on various aspects, like structure, vocal presentation, gestures,
etc...) It seems quite sound, pedagogically.
Now, you do have to have a minimum of tolerance for getting up and doing a
first speech in the very beginning, but if you can do that, the rest of the
program ramps up gradually. As an introvert, I was never thrilled to be going
_in_ to a Toastmasters meeting, but I always felt really good (energized,
happy) going _out._
------
thejteam
Some types of public speaking are easier for introverts than others. Giving a
preplanned talk in front of a couple of thousand people? Pretend they aren't
there and that you're speaking to the air. Look at the audience as you would
look at a TV screen. It may not be the most spectacular or engaging talk they
have ever seen, but you will get through it. Very few people are so
interesting that you want to hear them talk for very long anyway.
A small interactive discussion group? That lasts all day? Now you are in
territory where being an introvert is deadly. And there really are no good
answers other than try to get some practice in small groups over short time
spans and work your way up.
~~~
vidarh
I think even that depends a lot of topic and format. I don't mind a technical
discussion group at all. A social group on the other hand makes me want to
just shut down. At parties I'll often just sit down somewhere and sit there
all evening (unless I'm at a club - I like dancing and happily use that as an
excuse for not talking), and don't mind talking if someone talks to me, but I
won't seek out conversations unless it's a group of geeks talking about
subjects I care about.
------
nollidge
Kind of nitpicky, but is there actually any correlation between introversion
and public speaking anxiety? I'm pretty introverted, but don't have much
difficulty with public speaking or job interviews or whatever. For me,
introversion is all about personal relationships - business conversations are
a completely different animal, at least in my brain.
------
snarfy
[http://www.toastmasters.org/](http://www.toastmasters.org/)
------
linuxhansl
Can't agree more. I actually have a stutter and avoided any public speaking
until a pretty ripe age.
At some point I just had to do it. I had nightmares, nightsweats, couldn't
sleep or eat. But that is not what mattered. What mattered was that I did it
anyway. I was nervous, wanted to run away, but I did it.
It was for small groups first, giving status updates to a few colleagues -
even those used to stress me.
Then after some speaking at conferences, I was surprised that these status
updates ever caused me any stress.
From there I went to a key note in front of 800 or more people (a few years
back I would quite literally preferred to die rather than doing that).
Suddenly the conference engagement became less daunting.
The funny thing is: On stage I do not stutter. I guess I'm too busy delivering
the message.
And what if I do? It doesn't really matter. Some people might find it funny (I
certainly had my share of that when I was younger, but those folks are
typically inferior on an intellectual level and are just looking for
compensation.)
And, yes, I am still extremely nervous before each public engagement and I
still not like it per se, but you know what? That's part of it.
------
dmitri1981
I would also recommend checking these slides from Rand Fishkin of SEOmoz fame.
[http://www.slideshare.net/randfish/making-presentations-
bett...](http://www.slideshare.net/randfish/making-presentations-better)
~~~
dshipper
Great presentation, thanks for sharing!
------
jcolman
Love this post. Great tips that are useful for anybody/everybody, introverts
and extroverts alike.
Just want to make the point that shyness/anxiety/insecurity != introversion.
They're completely separate spectrums. Sure, sometimes they cross one another,
but correlation of the two does not mean causation.
Here's a good post by Susan Cain (the author of Quiet) that gets at this idea:
[http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/2011/07/05/are-you-
shy-i...](http://www.thepowerofintroverts.com/2011/07/05/are-you-shy-
introverted-both-or-neither-and-why-does-it-matter/)
------
gadders
Interesting article, but can we get away from this idea that introvert = shy?
Being an introvert just means that you find different things interesting, not
that you're scared of groups.
------
mhartl
This article is based on a dubious premise, namely, that public speaking is
harder for introverts than for extroverts. Introverts are taxed by smalltalk
and the like, but they often have no trouble getting up in front of hundreds
of people and performing. Think Michael Jackson: painfully diffident in
private, but a monster on stage.
------
sethev
Toastmasters has been a big help for me. You get to practice speaking in front
of a group of people who are all there to practice speaking as well. Knowing
everybody is there to learn the same skills takes some of the pressure off.
Plus every time you give a speech somebody is assigned to evaluate it in the
same meeting. So you get instant feedback and constructive criticism.
Another big advantage of Toastmasters is that there are a lot of opportunities
for impromptu speaking. This made me very nervous at first but it’s incredibly
valuable to practice speaking for 1-2 minutes without notes.
------
demo9090
If you don't know how to speak publicly, what entitles you about writing a
post to give recommendations about that what you do badly?
This is something very common on the blogosphere right now, the kind of posts
that starts with a "I suck doing this, this are my 10 ways to do it better.."
There is a lot of interesting lectures out there about how to be better
speaking publicly, we don't need advices or recommendations from someone who
doest know about the topic.
The worst thing is that news.ycombinator keep bubbling this things up.
~~~
pitt1980
want to throw out a few links to what you consider to be the best of "a lot of
interesting lectures out there about how to be better speaking publicly"?
the beginner/"I suck at this" vantage point might be more relevent to a
paticular reader as the expert one
~~~
VLM
I'm guessing you want a curated list of something better than just google.
Some folks who consider this problem to be their hobby (there are also other
similar groups):
[http://www.toastmasters.org/tips.asp](http://www.toastmasters.org/tips.asp)
A non-obvious phrase to google for is "public speaking anxiety" which is more
formally the problem, not some INT/EXT thing or just simply being no good at
it which usually is just personality pessimism.
I remember I had to take a public speaking class at university a long time ago
and there is obvious some discussion and support; plus you get credit, plus
probably tuition reimbursement from employer.
Not having an issue with speaking, but experiencing one with heights, I know
that working as a team helps a lot. This seems to be a semi-universal human
trait, you put one redneck in the back country and he's fine, put two out
there and a bunch of "hold my beer and watch this" later, you need an
ambulance, its inevitable, not just rednecks in the back country. So I would
imagine a team public speaking presentation would be enormously easier than
going it alone. I know this helps a lot with being scared of heights, at least
for me.
(edited to add there's also two types of public speaking, the stylistic one
where you should use your hands while talking precisely this much in 2013 for
network TV but this much for locals, and make sure to blink on cue and use the
correct fake accent at the correct time, and the more concrete goal of giving
a speech to the public... make sure your teacher or information source is
aiming at what you actually want to learn. In a similar way WRT me and
heights, there's stylistic stuff like what kind of costume a trapeze artist
wears in 2013 (I have no idea) vs how to climb on roofs and antenna towers
which I can help a little with)
------
ctdonath
A quote that made a difference for me, addressing the paralyzing issue of
"what if I'm wrong? what if I make a mistake in front of all these people?":
_though it cannot hope to be useful or informative on all matters, it does at
least make the reassuring claim, that where it is inaccurate it is at least
definitively inaccurate._ \- Douglas Adams
If I'm wrong when speaking to a group, then by gum I'll strive to be
_definitively_ wrong.
------
simonebrunozzi
I am copying this from a recent blog post that I've written. Hopefully it's
good advice. Let me know what you think.
3) What did I learn? Now you might want to ask: after 500 talks,
presentations, keynotes and the like, what did I learn?
Many things, among which:
3.1) Somebody in the audience is smarter than you: no matter how smart,
focused, sharp you are, you’ll always find someone who is smarter, more
prepared, more skilled. Which means: be humble, and if you don’t know
something, just say so. People don’t pretend that you know everything; they
just want you to be honest.
3.2) Slides are only a small part of a presentation: you present to inspire,
and possibly to provide knowledge and details. Slides are not the main part…
The most important part is telling a story, involving people, showing passion,
making things memorable.
3.3) Always be listening. I mean it. Even when you’re on stage, speaking.
Don’t just listen to WORDS. Listen to feelings as well. I’ll tell you a little
story to explain this point. Late 2009. I was in France, and I was the last
speaker before lunch. I was supposed to speak at 12:30, for about 30 minutes.
However, previous speakers took more time than expected, and one of the big
sponsors pretended to have their CEO speak before me, unplanned, for more than
20 minutes, reading some text the entire time. READING. No slides, no
interpretation. Why didn’t he simply email all of us, instead?
His message was very boring, very corporate, full of vaporware. His last words
were about how customer-obsessed his company was.
He was using people’s time as he pleased, without even thinking about their
needs. When it was my turn, it was already 13:00, and people really wanted to
go to lunch. I was angry. I was in a difficult situation.
I introduced myself, and then told the audience: “My talk was planned to be 30
minutes long. However, we are late, and you are hungry. I’ll cut my talk down
to 15 minutes, and then we all go to lunch at 13:15. This is what I call
customer obsession.”
Big round of applauses. The crowd was mine. So, the lesson is: if you want to
deliver a message, the length of the message doesn’t count. Other things
count. Or, if you want to be a Technology Evangelist, don’t FORCE the message
to your crowd. Use empathy.
3.4) Get inspired. I have amazing colleagues that inspire me every day. Our
CTO, Werner Vogels, is one of the best public speaker I’ve ever seen, perhaps
second only to my all-time favorite, Matt Wood (a rare combination of
intelligence, humility, knowledge and a collection of PhDs), who recently
moved to a new role, Chief Data Scientist. Our most senior Evangelist, Jeff
Barr, is a walking encyclopaedia on all things AWS. Jinesh Varia is a
talented, super-smart producer of high quality content, and a good presenter
too. And there are other colleagues (like Simon Elisha) which, despite not
strictly being Technology Evangelists, are amazing speakers nevertheless.
There are also a lot of amazing Technology Evangelists out there, not just
within the Amazon Web Services team. I loved reading Kenneth Reitz’s blog post
about his experience at Heroku. So the lesson here is: get inspired, as much
as possible. Never stop learning and improving.
3.5) I’ve mentioned above that “It doesn’t necessarily make sense to travel
like this, though”.
In fact, after 500 talks, I think that I should focus on quality, rather than
quantity. Let me be more clear. At the beginning, you should do as many talks
as possible, simply because you learn a lot, and you mostly learn by doing.
After a while (500 is enough, but also 200 would be enough), you will notice
that you’re not improving so much anymore. It’s time for you to start focusing
on quality. Quality, in this case, means committing your time and energy to
events that matter. It could be a small user group, or a huge conference, but
as long as it matters, it’s ok. It will actually be easier for me now, since I
am focused on the Bay area, and therefore travelling time is not as much as it
used to be… Which means I can afford to do more events, while keeping the
“quality” high.
3.6) You’re a public figure representing your company, learn how to deal with
it.
This was a tough one to learn, and I admit it wasn’t easy for me, but
eventually I’ve learned it the hard way. Different companies might have
different policies, but in most cases you are not “just one employee”,
whatever you do online or in public matters a lot.
Ah, and by the way: Opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily
represent those of current or past employers. Just in case.
Source: [http://www.brunozzi.com/2013/01/04/500-times-on-
stage/](http://www.brunozzi.com/2013/01/04/500-times-on-stage/)
------
tlarkworthy
Indeed, slide transitions are an important polish
------
known
Practice, practice, practice
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What is Stackoverflow doing to avoid its decline? - soroso
======
mayoff
This is going to sound harsh, but here's my take.
When you're farting around, you want to read “fun” questions and answers (e.g.
“Interesting uses of sun.misc.Unsafe”), and when you see stackoverflow moving
away from the “fun”, you have time to write an angsty blog post (because
you're just farting around).
When you're trying to get work done, you want to find direct answers to
specific questions (e.g. “how do I do X in JQuery again?”). The Powers That Be
want stackoverflow to focus on this kind of Q&A, so you're not likely to find
your question closed for being off topic, and even if it is, you don't have as
much time to write an angsty blog post (because you're hard at work).
Then there's the fact that people are more likely in general to publicly
complain than to publicly praise, and complaints are more fun to read than
paeans.
So if your impression of stackoverflow's “decline” is based on recent posts
you've seen on HN, you should try to get a more objective assessment. I don't
see stackoverflow as declining based on their traffic measurements:
[https://www.quantcast.com/p-c1rF4kxgLUzNc](https://www.quantcast.com/p-c1rF4kxgLUzNc)
------
vonklaus
It really boils down to what SO optimizes for which seems to be less clutter,
higher quality answers & lack of subjective questions(vim v. emacs).
I think their strategy alienates people as users(like myself) from posting,
but encourages consumption. I only post there when I have a difficult problem
I haven't been able to solve. I think that is the system working.
They have alienated some power users, I remember a thread ~1 year ago about
someone deleting their account on SO because of these policies but I suspect a
lot of the pure engineers and egotists like posting and dealing strictly with
interesting thought provoking content.
tl;dr What SO sees as its major asset, others may see as "decline"
------
quadrature
It appears im out of the loop. What decline are you referring to ?.
~~~
detaro
This discussion is currently on the front page and might have triggered this
question:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9869886](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9869886)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Top engineering university to open jobs exclusively to women - trirpi
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jun/18/top-engineering-university-to-open-jobs-exclusively-to-women
======
lostmymind66
Blatant gender bias is not the way to reduce gender bias.
~~~
100100010001
I disagree. There is no way they are contributing to sexism!!! As long as you
have a vagina you can think you are what ever gender you want and work there.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A story of "launch" disaster: fast-food style - icodemyownshit
http://andyswan.com/blog/2009/09/21/a-story-of-launch-disaster-fast-food-style/
======
andyswan
I'm the original author of this. And just to clarify a few points:
1\. This really happened. 2\. It was done on purpose by the owner. 3\. They
did normally close one day per year for repaving/repairs...and Wendy's did
announce their grand opening well in advance.
Thanks,
Andy Swan
------
davidw
Not the intended point, but it reminds me of the good side of living in Italy.
I just got back from lunch at a nice trattoria, where I had a plate of fusilli
with "speck" (like prosciutto), cream, and rucola (I think it's argula or
something like that in English) for less than 5 euros. There's a time and a
place for McDonalds, but every day at lunch is way too much.
~~~
jlees
Rucola = arugula in the US, rocket in the UK. Mmm.
------
louislouis
So if a competitor site is launching, shut down your site for the day and
redirect all traffic to their site in an attempt to flood their server?
Interesting tactic but I don't think it's gona work somehow.
~~~
johnrob
Forget redirecting traffic - just put an invisible pixel on your site that
hits the competitor. Imagine if google did this... they could kill any site!
~~~
JeremyChase
Yes; we should all DOS the competition. Brilliant plan.
------
launic
The two things I would learn from this story are: 1) to be prepared for the
success. As someone said, be prepared for the time when all your ten thousand
customers tell their, maybe, thirty friends about how good is your service. 2)
Find always the good side of bad things. For example a competitor can simply
emphasize your strong points and (as you said here) increase the market as a
whole.
I guess this is why we like this story even if we do not really believe it.
------
edw519
OP infers that McDonald's intended for Wendy's to fail on their first day.
Based upon my experience in foodservice (including 7 years with McDonald's), I
don't believe it. They never conducted business that way, and I doubt that
they do now.
Years of study have taught something counter-intuitive in the fast food
industry (especially in a small town where everybody knows everybody else):
the better Wendy's does, the better McDonald's does. With more choices
downtown, there will be more traffic.
The best food service organizations welcome others, not as competitors to
fight over a bigger piece of pie, but as "partners" to make the whole pie
bigger.
It's up to us to figure out how this lesson applies to our industry. There's
probably a symbiotic relationship out there for us to find as well.
~~~
yummyfajitas
McD's is a franchise, so why can't this simply be the action of one rogue
franchise owner?
~~~
edw519
It could be, but I still doubt it. McDonald's runs a very tight ship;
franchisees have little latitude to go "rogue". It's highly unlikely that a
franchisee could shut down one day without corporate approval. They have
traditionally welcomed others into their neighborhoods (while still
maintaining #1 position, of course).
[Little known unpublished McDonald's fact: Not sure if it's still true, but at
one time they honored all competitors coupons. Yes, they'd give you a free Big
Mac with a free Whopper coupon.]
~~~
joezydeco
They may have kept the restaurant open and just closed the drive-thru lane.
That's pretty much killing your lunch business, but the store is still
effectively "open".
[And yeah the coupon thing is still there. I once spent half an hour arguing
with a woman who knew about this fact and was trying to convince me a free
Strawberry Shake was equivalent to a free Slurpee coupon she was holding. Had
to say no to that one.]
~~~
andyswan
You may be right there....I don't know if you could park a block away and walk
into the McD's that day, but I do know no one would lol :)
------
vdoma
I don't know - it could backfire as well. Sometimes long lines in a new place
could give the impression that place is better, especially for people not in
line - people just driving through downtown. So, it might be an experiment
worth trying, but by no means guarantees success.
~~~
taitems
That would only apply to a highly competitive market. In this case, you have
one store with a long history of customer satisfaction.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Use of Sub-Routines in Programmes (1951) [pdf] - tosh
http://www.laputan.org/pub/papers/wheeler.pdf
======
misterdoubt
More readable:
[https://gist.github.com/kimsk/a8dc99eb9dd491152bcc9f4a58a33d...](https://gist.github.com/kimsk/a8dc99eb9dd491152bcc9f4a58a33d0e)
------
Someone
This is by the D.J. Wheeler
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wheeler_(computer_scient...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wheeler_\(computer_scientist\)))
of the Burrows–Wheeler transform
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrows–Wheeler_transform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrows–Wheeler_transform)).
------
romwell
With the exception of the part about storage consideration (paper tape vs.
internal storage), everything else still holds to this day.
~~~
acqq
Sure. I enjoyed even more when I discovered that the parallel adder, an
important part of every CPU, also patented by IBM around 1960 was developed
and implemented using the mechanical parts by Charles Babbage at least 120
year before (around 1840) and everybody can enjoy its 3D animated
reconstruction today:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2EDE8Srdcw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2EDE8Srdcw)
So even the discoveries from 1840 still hold: without the parallel carry
circuitry, an adder is simply too slow. Babbage was proud of his
implementation, but not many were able to understand then what was that about.
I wouldn't be surprised that Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace, also
already thought about the subroutines in 19th century, when considering the
programs for the Babbage's machine.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Is there anything Google App Engine could improve? - grep
Is there anything App Engine could improve for you to use it?
======
bemmu
I wish there were some "quick deploy" mode for when you are developing a
staging version of your app and not needing the scalability yet. I have
staging and production versions of my app, both need to be online so that
outside services can reach them, but it's annoying to wait for the staging
deploys every time I make a small change. Of course this is solvable by just
renting a dev box from linode and running dev_appserver there, which is what
I'm planning to try soon, but would be a time saver if this were included.
------
wdewind
PHP support
(yes downvote me I don't care, PHP isn't perfect but you're being crazy if you
categorically think you can't write good software in it)
~~~
petervandijck
Yes please. AppEngine is just sucky, there's really very little value in its
scalability for 99.99% of all apps, so the only thing it's got going for it is
that it's free to start. That's not much.
------
cellis
Comet or some way to long poll would be nice Faster deploys (I've had to write
my own one click deploy, not fun to say the least)
Other than that, I'm pretty happy with the reliability it provides. It takes
some getting used to but once you are, it's pretty smooth.
------
fizzfur
no SSL for our own domains is the one killer for me at the moment.... be nice
to know a bit more about the timescales of the items on the roadmap, maybe
which releases things are being aimed for just to get more of an idea of
priorities.
------
kashif
Redis support
------
catch404
More recent version of python?
------
jplewicke
MapReduce and Pregel.
------
aneshkesavan
PHP Support
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What happens when you register a domain? - jgrahamc
https://blog.cloudflare.com/using-cloudflare-registrar/
======
cf-fan
While I would love to transfer my 9 domains to cloudflare , here's my concern:
transferring domains involves temporarily disabling whois guard, making my
info public. It remains one of those wierd problems that no one bothers
solving. I was hoping cloudflare included a transfer system which did not
require disabling whois guard.
~~~
Boulth
Not to mention that Cloudflare will immidately issue an SSL certificate the
moment you move the domain. I was quite surprised by that and although I
understand the business reasons getting info from CT logs that someone issued
a cert for my domain along with 100s of random domains (SAN) was not a
pleasant experience.
------
firic
> When you register a domain, you become the owner
So what happened to the daily stormer? How can something you own be taken
away?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
36c3 visitor who hosts neonazi and hate speech domains ejected from congress - DyslexicAtheist
https://twitter.com/hackerfantastic/status/1211590283806138368
======
IfOnlyYouKnew
I love these people who insist they are only in it for the “principle of free
speech”, then somehow make a completely unconnected point about NGOs rescuing
refugees from drowning being criminal in the next paragraph.
Accusing 36C3 of being “an organized crime syndicate founded to support left-
wing terrorism” is also the telling, both in terms of ideological drift as
well as capacity to reason.
...guess he’s just upset he got beaten up by girls.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cookie Stuffing with Google Adsense - jakeludington
http://www.benedelman.org/news/050712-1.html
======
Smerity
As the article points out, they must be making good money for this attack to
be practical. The back of the envelope calculation seems reasonable: even
paying Google reasonably high CPMs they're making it back via Amazon through
even casual browsing.
One of the issues is that legitimate affiliates can't tell when their
affiliate revenue has been stolen. The cookie lasts 24 hours and any Amazon
transaction occurs offsite at a later time -- they have no idea what to expect
re: compensation. For that reason Amazon may not be chasing it down as eagerly
as Google would with Adwords. With Adwords users can far more easily see when
they're being scammed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Haiku meets 9th processor - protomyth
https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/pawe%C5%82_dziepak/2013-12-20_haiku_meets_9th_processor
======
GuiA
I have a fantasy that 20 years from now, Haiku will be the operating system of
choice for hackers with design sensibilities (NB: I didn't say _graphic
design_ ) who want a powerful, flexible, programmable OS that just works and
requires minimal configuration.
This niche is currently filled by OSX, but I think it's slowly falling out of
favor because of Apple's increasing focus on the end user and "iOSifying"
everything.
Of course Haiku is still some ways from it, but I've been following its
development for a while now and I feel like it's on the right track. If one or
two manufacturers end up providing good hardware for Haiku to run on when it's
a bit more mature, it'd be wonderful and then my vision would happen.
There are worse foundations and inspirations to have than BeOS - a man can
dream :)
~~~
thaumaturgy
FWIW Debian stable (esp. with KDE IMO) is now _very_ close to this. I have no
patience at all for a fiddly daily machine, and for the most part I've been
pretty happy with it.
There are probably other Linux distributions (Mint?) that can fill this niche.
I only mention this because, if people are looking for something right now,
setting aside a little bit of time to try out Debian stable or Mint might be
worthwhile.
But yeah. I'd love to see Haiku become a strong alternative OS. I've been
keeping an eye on it ever since it was announced. (I still have the BeOS R5
disc that I installed on a PPC machine years ago.)
~~~
mortyseinfeld
The people that used BeOS and look forward to Haiku are going to disagree with
you on that. I'm guessing that they look at Linux distros as a hodge-podge of
various libraries without any cohesive philosophy.
~~~
GuiA
Yeah, that's my position. I use OSX at work and Arch at home; and while I love
Linux, it is quite messy. (Which works to its advantage in many ways- it
wouldn't be that powerful and flexible if it weren't)
------
techtalsky
I guess I'm not surprised. 100% discussion about whether Haiku deserves to
exist, zero discussion about the post. Can anyone talk about the significance
of the removal of the hard processor limit?
~~~
wmf
It's good to remove hardcoded limits, but everything I see in this post looks
like it was implemented in Linux and FreeBSD years ago. I'm sure this has been
discussed somewhere, but it's not that clear why Haiku has its own kernel at
all.
~~~
girvo
Because it can. Also, because doing things differently is fun. It's API is
something to behold, and besides, would you say the same thing about Plan 9,
or BSD, etc?
~~~
wmf
The BeOS user API is interesting. It's not clear to me that the kernel is
actually different in any appreciable way.
------
rtpg
I've always been confused as to what sort of niche Haiku is trying to fill. Is
there that much of a demand for BeOS applications?
Maybe I'm just too young to know
~~~
AlecSchueler
I've actually been using Haiku as my primary work OS for a while now. I don't
need much software beyond a web browser and a text editor (increasingly true
for many people I imagine) and Haiku offers some benefits over Linux in simple
shell features like stack & tile window management. Check out the User
Guide[0] for a sense of the unique features.
[0]: [https://www.haiku-
os.org/docs/userguide/en/contents.html](https://www.haiku-
os.org/docs/userguide/en/contents.html)
~~~
rtpg
For the web browser, is there good support for modern browsers?
~~~
ryanweal
No, it has a built-in browser. Not sure what engine is behind it but it
reminds me of the Konqueror days. There is no Firefox build that is reasonably
current that I have seen yet (hopefully I'm wrong, please someone prove me
wrong).
~~~
jay-anderson
WebPositive is based on Webkit (see
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebPositive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebPositive)).
I'm fairly sure you're right about firefox. The only version for beos (that I
know of) is a port of firefox 2 (see [http://haikuware.com/remository/view-
details/internet-networ...](http://haikuware.com/remository/view-
details/internet-network/web-browsers/firefox-bezilla)).
------
ryanweal
I have been interested in Haiku for awhile but could not get it to install.
Last week I finally realized that I could run it in a VirtualBox instance so I
started trying it out. I like it... very simple UI, very clean, and very fast.
It comes with many Unix-like shell utilities including scp and ssh. git is
installed. There is a graphical text editor and something resembling a package
manager that will allow you to fetch vim.
The web browser is a bit lacking/weird/not-sure-how-to-describe, but reading
through the installation manual it appears that many Wifi chipsets are
supported via BSD drivers.
Press shift when booting if you can't get anywhere, and definitely read the
manual. There are few necessary concepts to learn...
Really reminds me of Mac OS 7-9, but much more stable and a better user
interface. I'm considering using it for back-end web development (as most of
my work is server-based). I'm not concerned about Flash anymore so that is a
non-issue.
------
girvo
I've been using Haiku since around 2009, and while I've no experience with
BeOS itself (I'm far too young), I adore it. It's such a well thought out and
designed system, right down to the APIs. Heck at this point, I'm tempted to
use it for all my dev work (server side), as I enjoy using it so much. It
lacks the quirks linux has across distros (somewhat an unfair comparison, as
haiku has one distro and that's it), while being super quick and a joy to use.
It's truly a desktop operating system, which I think is a good thing. It's
like an unpolished, open source Mac OS in that way. The multicore and
scheduler work being done is going to be handy for taking advantage of new
computers.
Now building a desktop OS is a an odd niche. At this point, all of us live on
the web, and the desktop matters little, as we have the move towards mobile
OSes, and the integration of mobile features into our operating systems. If we
ever see a move back towards more "traditional" desktop OS paradigms, perhaps
Haiku will see more use, but for now it's community is small, passionate, and
fun. I don't think it will ever be big, but one can dream right? :)
------
JoeAltmaier
The issues of priority and starvation are large issues. I see the OP
implemented another ad-hoc behavior, which I predict will move the issue to
another place but not eradicate it.
I believe priorities are a sucky way to express the developers desire to
perform some tasks in a low-latency manner, while others are ok to delay for a
larger time. Maybe latency would be a better thread parameter than priority.
It has the advantage of being a hard metric, one you can easily measure and
adjust your algorithm against.
But latency is slippery. Do you mean time-to-first-execution, or time-to-
completion? Completion of what? The OS would have to be aware of some units of
processing (message digestion time?). This is not a bad idea. I'm all in favor
of the OS having a more complete model of what the developer is trying to
accomplish.
Anyway my 2C worth.
~~~
robbs
I was just reading this last night and thought you might find it interesting:
[https://lkml.org/lkml/2010/12/5/21](https://lkml.org/lkml/2010/12/5/21)
Con Kolivas, author of a CPU scheduler for the Linux kernel, had a very
similar idea.
------
whyrusleeping
I'm left wondering what the advantage of using haiku would be over fedora,
ubuntu, mint, or debian?
~~~
xj9
It's a nice UNIX with a cohesive environment and design (both in terms of
software and UI) philosophy. Other than than there aren't a lot of
"advantages" because its alpha software.
Maybe check out some BeOS R5 videos, they were doing some really cool stuff
before they went under!
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggCODBIfWKY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggCODBIfWKY)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Please stop writing poor user stories - gghootch
http://garmlucassen.nl/post/123571158691/poor-user-stories
======
gghootch
Hi everyone, if you enjoyed this post please take a moment to complete my
survey. Your contribution is of incredible value for my research!
[http://garmlucassen.nl/survey](http://garmlucassen.nl/survey)
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Why Are There So Many Robocalls? Here’s What You Can Do About Them - ss2003
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-there-are-so-many-robocalls-heres-what-you-can-do-about-them-1530610203
======
tonyquart
I think it's because robocall is still one of the cheapest and most converting
marketing trick for them. I have just read an article that talks about how we
could sue them and maybe get some money from them at
[http://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-
massive-229500-robo...](http://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-
massive-229500-robocall-lawsuit-against-time-warner-cable/).
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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What’s wrong with GUIs - edw519
http://crustyoldfart.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/whats-wrong-with-guis/
======
makecheck
I agree with the article's points.
I tend to wonder if the state of GUIs isn't as simple as "too many developers
use Windows and don't look elsewhere". Windows ships with a lousy shell and
not many decent commands to build with. If most developers follow that example
and don't try to learn anything else, they'll be "comfortable" even in
inefficient programming environments.
The Mac's an anomaly...the current OS has great command support, and while the
older Mac OS didn't, its _developers_ had access to the excellent MPW Shell.
MPW Shell had features that Unix-like systems still can't match, such as the
ability to assign significance to many more characters. (When the system makes
it easy to enter "weird" symbols, the idea of turning them into shell
metacharacters is pretty cool!)
A good book on the way developers think (on Unix-like systems), is ESR's "The
Art of UNIX Programming". It has great examples of how many of us would
approach system and application design, that don't seem prevalent on other
systems.
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Marketing advice from Deadmau5 - pud
http://deadmau5.tumblr.com/post/23238420396/some-advice-on-rollercoasters-and-shit
======
rockmeamedee
Ha, I would never have thought deadmau5 had such awful writing skills.
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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iPhone vs Android OS Fragmentation - cwan
http://mattmaroon.com/2010/11/18/fragmentation/
======
drivebyacct2
I think the Android fragmentation rant is really, really tired. But, is it
fair to compare a year old Android phone and anything prior to 3GS?
~~~
patrickaljord
It is fair if 3GS still has significant market share.
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"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Subsets and Splits