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scaling_mia_the_pile_00_HackerNews

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How the Bitcoin protocol actually works (2013) - dsr12 http://www.michaelnielsen.org/ddi/how-the-bitcoin-protocol-actually-works/ ====== elcapitan This is a good addition to the original Bitcoin paper ([https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf) [pdf]), which is already very concise and readable. The contribution of the post is going into the details of how the concepts actually play out in reality and how stuff just looks like. It's interesting that there are so many other articles and talks that try to explain Bitcoin with a high effort of metaphors and examples while avoiding technical details. You can consume all of them and still have no idea. But then again this is probably similar in other fields with high levels of internal complexity (i.e. where you'd have to read recursively all of the science behind it to get even superficial understanding). ~~~ lohengramm I found this page: [http://www.righto.com/2014/02/bitcoins-hard-way-using-raw- bi...](http://www.righto.com/2014/02/bitcoins-hard-way-using-raw- bitcoin.html?m=1) to be the most technical in the subject. I appreciate similar links if they exist. ~~~ kens Thanks, I'm glad you liked my writeup. I also did a similar article on Bitcoin mining: [http://www.righto.com/2014/02/bitcoin-mining-hard-way- algori...](http://www.righto.com/2014/02/bitcoin-mining-hard-way- algorithms.html) ------ s_dev This is the best (concise + clear) explanation of Bitcoin I've come across: [http://alecb.me/blog/how-bitcoin-works/](http://alecb.me/blog/how-bitcoin- works/) It's shorter and simpler than the OPs which seems to be a bit more comprehensive.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
New Web address endings could be start of turf wars - aaroneous http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-04-06-web-site-domain-names_N.htm ====== aaroneous I don't see how unlimited TLDs benefits anyone other than ICANN.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: An elegant Ruby on Rails solution for development progress. - mikeruby http://www.railstracker.com ====== mikeruby The engine is designed for your end users in mind and for them to track a particular Github issue. A kanban style wouldn't really be beneficial since end users are just tracking items(not as a developer working on them). ------ stonepran Cool idea, it might benefit from a Kanban style for the UI	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: What is the JavaScript library you dislike the most? - manceraio Is there any library that has no better alternatives and you have to use? Or a library that was good but it's already outdated? ====== janpot what are you trying to achieve? are you trying to generate some JavaScript hate or are you looking for something to help maintain or improve? because i feel in the later case it would make sense to rephrase your question a bit. ~~~ manceraio I am looking for something to improve.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
YouTube Pushing Users Switch To Real Names - MRonney http://www.jimyounkin.com/2012/07/youtube-pushing-users-switch-to-real.html ====== droithomme It's often argued in these cases that identification and real names will increase the quality of comments by eliminating trolls, stalkers and troublemakers somehow. When measured empirically, one study found that anonymous commenting from people without user accounts increases the ratio of good comments to poor quality ones. The reason is that so many more people comment. There's a certain fixed number of trolls and troublemakers who have a lot of free time and will go through whatever hoops are needed to set up an account with a registered name, which may or may not be their real one. Legitimate commenters though are not as motivated to jump through hoops and comply with demands they use a consistent, or real sounding name. [http://blog.topix.com/2008/01/anonymous-comments-by-the- numb...](http://blog.topix.com/2008/01/anonymous-comments-by-the-numbers.html) As far as people with video accounts on youtube who are contributing content and allowing for the business model, youtube has many cases of attractive women vloggers who are routinely stalked by unhinged fan/viewers. Do these vloggers benefit from a degree of anonymity, or the ability to use pen names? Yes. In addition to attractive women, there are also many aliased vloggers posting political opinions about police and military brutality, citizen journalists anonymously uploading video from protests, etc. Maintaining penname aliases on vlogger content accounts clearly allows these contributors to increase their own safety by making it more difficult to stalk and harass them in real life by not just trolls and dysfunctional people, but also from government agents intending to both silence them and do them harm. ~~~ bhartzer I have no problem using my real name, In fact, I'm already using it on YouTube. The only 'vloggers' who would benefit from anonymity are the ones who have something to say that could be consider 'controversial' by someone else. ~~~ ben0x539 > The only 'vloggers' who would benefit from anonymity are the ones who have > something to say that could be consider 'controversial' by someone else. You don't think there's a large group to which that applies? Given how easy it is to turn online harassment into real-life harassment with a little internet research, I will not begrudge anyone their separate identities. Your "controversial" opinion could be as benign as "I don't owe my youtube stalkers any attention" before someone is subjected to threats have the potential to seriously affect their life. I don't have a problem using my real name either (this handle is easily traceable to my full address, I believe), but I'm a white guy, moderately well off and my political opinions are the mainstream, etc. I enjoy a degree of safety and social support that I take for granted, but that's not a luxury available to many who also deserve to participate in internet communities and cultural life. That Google (and others) are not only not accomodating them but going out of their way to make it harder for them to have an online presence is really surprising to me. I'd have thought Google "gets" it, and I don't see what they're gaining from moves like this. ------ user49598 If i had to use my real name, I'd probably never comment on this site (good or bad thing, you can decide). A lot of people aren't interested in attribution and just want to take part in discussions on the internet. Also, anon-posting gives you the opportunity to get better at having online discussions. Everybody sounds like a troll now and then, you need to feel like it's not attached to your identity to really express yourself. The quality of youtube comments is not going to go up, and people are just going to start using fake "real names". Which apparently amazon has a trademark on anyway: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=14279641) ------ Wilya That's not very surprising. They are forcing everything towards integrating everything into Google+, one way or another. And I must say, when I read in one of the screenshots "And if you change your mind, you can switch back to your username", I chuckled inside. Call me cynical, but I'd bet a lot that going back will stop being possible pretty soon. ------ citricsquid I assume this is the gradual phasing in of google+ for every google product. They can't switch to real identities straight away without backlash, so if they do it slowly (first names, wait a few months, then photos, wait a few months, then profiles) nobody will be outraged. ------ RobAtticus At first I was kinda excited for this since I don't really go by my Youtube handle anymore, so I'd rather it be my new handle or my name. However, once I started the process, I realized I had uploaded some videos of my friend and I playing NBA Hangtime. Our team name is "WANKIT SLOWLY". Not sure I want that to be associated with my real name when people Google me. ~~~ hackinthebochs Too late... I myself have been somewhat disturbed at the many hoards of "hacker news" indexers and mirror sites that come up when I google my screenname. Deleting/editing the comment may not even be enough anymore. ~~~ RobAtticus Well, not exactly. My real name isn't the same as my HN handle, but point well taken. I don't think it would be terribly hard to get from one to the other. ------ thornofmight It's worse than you think. I registered a new account on Youtube a couple days ago and was not even given the option to choose a username. They asked me for my first and last name and that was it. ------ jiggy2011 Perhaps the whole idea of "Real names" is outdated in the days of the internet. Since they have problems. They collide, especially with a common name. Somebody googles your name and it may be difficult to find the "real" you. Also people are pretty bad at spelling, many peoples names are very hard to spell. Not to mention that many of them are going to use different character sets. Besides, if your life revolves around your internet identity. Is that a less legitimate identity than your real name? It may be more practical for parents to assign some sort of "default handle" to their children which is expected to be changed as the child gets older. For government purposes, perhaps a unique ID that cannot be changed would work better? ------ kevinflo The list of reasons I was prompted with when I opted out of making the switch really irked me. For the list to not include "I want my name to remain private" when that is obviously the most common reason felt condescending. To make me say that "I'll decide later" seemed like a bully tactic. I've already made up my mind. ------ ericson578 now I regret linking my gmail+youtube accounts. Oh well, time to delete that youtube account. What was the name of that anonymous email service again, ironic that I'll find it with google. I don't need every future employer forever more knowing that I commented on a controversial video that one time back in '12. ~~~ biomechanica I find it very frustrating that Google thinks that forcing people to reveal their identities is a "good" thing. "People will be held accountable now!" is the slogan I keep hearing ringing in my head listening to the excuses put out by companies. In the end, it _is_ their service people are using and they can dictate the terms all they want. However, it also sets up a system where people will now expect websites across the web to want their true names. In a sense, it will become common place and make people look weird for using nick names. At least, that's my opinion. Fuck them for doing that. ~~~ masklinn > I find it very frustrating that Google thinks that forcing people to reveal > their identities is a "good" thing. Remember: Google's business is advertising, and you can sell far better/more expensive ads to "real identities". As far as business goes, real identities are most definitely a good thing. For google, that is. ~~~ biomechanica Indeed their business is advertising. Though, I'm not sure users providing their real identities will make things better. For instance, with Google's music service. Once you upload a few albums Google shows albums you might like. This isn't done because I have my real name (I don't use it, personally, but have seen it in action) posted. Same kind of thing goes with ads. They can track your IP(s) and go with that. If anything, it's a better system than using so called "real names" because people, I will bet, will use fake names. The same type of system can be used with nick names. It's just tied to the user's profile. Maybe I'm just getting it all wrong and not thinking right, but it really doesn't sit well with me. ~~~ droithomme I agree with you there is reason to be skeptical that real identities make advertising more effective. This presumes many things such as there are accurate models of human behavior, and that harsh policies won't drive people away or move them to go to more extremes to hide their identity. I am sure many advertisers think they want real identities, certainly that would appear to make their jobs even easier as they can then pull property value reports and criminal records searches for random people who happen to visit their site. Just because someone thinks they want something doesn't mean it is more effective. For example, many companies are losing in the marketplace because they can't compete because they can't hire qualified workers because they think they want a long list of acronyms rather than someone who is intelligent and has a history of getting the job done. Which is more valuable for serving ads that are valuable to advertisers? An anonymous user who you track with cookies and ip address (which gives general location) and have a profile of based on their interests and things they search for? Or someone who you have forced to give their real name, so they have switched to Tor and now every access they make comes from a different ip address, none of which appear connected and none which are related to their real geographical point of origin? Or how about the user that simply unplugs. This is not just theoretical supposition. In the 1980s supermarkets started using shopper loyalty programs. The stores would raise prices of many products, then offer to sell it at the normal price charged by competitors if the customer agreed to use a card linked to their real name and address, confirmed by state ID cards. This card then was used to track all of their purchasing habits and behaviors and form models of the customers in an attempt to influence them with more targeted coupon offers and direct mail advertising. At the same time, WalMart chose NOT to do that at all, and instead charged lower prices with no tracking, but did instead do much more difficult data analysis of purchases by store and region and date in order to find larger trends of what to keep in stock. For example, before a hurricane in Florida people buy a lot of beer WalMart's algorithms figured out and so they analyze weather data and send trucks full of beer when Florida is about to get hit with a big storm. Which approach worked? The manipulative one where customers were identified, monitored and targeted personally, and punished with higher prices if they refused this? Or the alternative where a more intelligent analysis was done of data without lazily requiring actual real id? ------ pilif In the last step of the assistant (by looking at the screenshots - not really using my youtube account, so I can't say), they ask for possible reasons why not to use the real name and the reasons they list are pretty valid and cover about the extent of reasons why I would not want to use my real name. As such this leaves me with hope that they at least understand that real-name- for-everything is not a good idea. Speaking of nicknames though: Being able to use a nickname as the main identification handle on twitter is one of the main reasons why I'm not using Google+. Finishing a talk or a discussion with a quick "hey - follow me on twitter: @pilif" is so much easier than "Please search me on Google+ under the name Philip Hofstetter". The last name is very difficult to type and in addition there are still a ton of Philip Hofstetter's around for people to confuse me with. By enforcing the unique nickname and allowing users to use them as handles (and in URLs), twitter makes it much easier for people to bridge the gap between the real and the virtual world to the point where I know many people by their twitter handle instead of their real names. With Google+ I'd have to make people spell my long name ("how many t's again?") or to give them an absurdly long number as my ID - neither of which is at all appealing (or producing "conversions" - if you want to call acquiring followers that) ~~~ darklajid As some one further down in this thread already noticed: The one reason that they didn't list is "I don't _want_ that, period". The closest thing is "I _cannot_ use my real name". Which I'd probably click if I'd ever be in that situation. But that's not the same thing. ------ wallawe Although there probably will be a backlash, I think this is a smart move from the social networking standpoint. Google is finally leveraging one of its most powerful assets that has to this point not played an integral role of building their G+ user base in any way. This is a weapon that facebook lacks. Plus it helps get rid of the "internet fuckwads" but as the author said, it's certainly an uphill battle. I don't think we should view it a negative light though. ~~~ slowpoke > _Plus it helps get rid of the "internet fuckwads"_ Hahaha. No. Take a single look at Facebook, and you'll be proven wrong. The amount of utter retardation people post under their real names is both astonishing and depressing. I've seen the reaction of another community where the "overlords" had the brilliant idea to force real names for exactly this reason. It was, by at least two orders of magnitude, the biggest shitstorm in the history of World of Warcraft, and that's saying something. (In all fairness, Blizzard realized what a gigantically fucking stupid idea that was and retracted the announcement pretty quickly.) I hope that this will deal a decisive blow to Youtube as a platform. The monopoly it enjoys in its segment is unhealthy and needs to go away. ------ lectrick My real name is INSANELY googleable (as in, from what I can tell, a google of my first and last name acts like a "primary key" to my entire internet presence)... so I fucking hate these efforts. I hated it when Blizzard pushed it, I'll tolerate it on Google+ but frankly, I NEED a place where I can speak anonymously and freely. ~~~ olalonde Use a realistic fake name? ~~~ cowkingdeluxe In Aug 2011, Google banned quite a bit of Google+ accounts for using fake names and nicknames. Does Google still do this? ~~~ ceejayoz That's where realistic comes in. They banned people using company names or clearly fake ones. ~~~ AkThhhpppt Or real names that looked like they might be fake (Violet Blue). Or that were foreign in a weird way (Hong Kong users). Or famous people they though might have been faking (William Shatner). Or... Basically, the nym wars debacle demonstrated (if nothing else) that if you demand people's real names, know what you're asking for, and be prepared to support the multitude of naming conventions that exist worldwide. ------ darklajid I'm never logged in to YouTube. I deleted my Google+ account when they started playing the Facebook game, turning an interesting service into a ~personal~ thing. From what I can tell from my usage and discussions among friends, YouTube really is declining in use, thanks to the overzealous media industry, blocking videos left and right. If you want to listen to a bit of German music you're advised to use a proxy outside of Germany itself for a while, to avoid getting the dreaded 'This video is not available in your country' message. In short: G+ fell short for me personally and in my 'circles'. YouTube could never interest me much in terms of keeping an account, as a consumer (for what? Comments?). I'm glad that I don't rely on these services (anymore). I'll rather stay with a pseudonym, vimeo and duckduckgo. ------ marknutter Hopefully this will increase the quality of comments on Youtube, which are currently unreadable. ~~~ DanBC I really doubt it'll do much. It will stop perhaps the very worst 5% But the comments are so awful that skimming 5% is nothing. Adam Buxton (who used to work with Joe Cornish) has a show about music videos in which he mocks youtube comments. It's pretty good. ------ radarsat1 I find Google's new policies surprising. Maybe "surprising" isn't the right word, but it's certainly a change in attitude that seems to ignore their own history. They started off by giving the web what it wanted and needed, a no- bullshit search service, adapting themselves to the web and profiting from it. Now they are trying to adapt the web to them, and I just don't see it going that way. Pseudonymity and the web go together, I really have my doubts in their their ability to remove it, influential as they are. Granted, Facebook may have changed people's attitudes towards pseudonymity, but I tend to think it's still something people fundamentally want. ------ jamesu It's a good thing all real names are unique and easy to remember... ------ JoelMcCracken I wonder if this would alter the horror that is youtube comments? ------ jiggy2011 Judging by 99% of the comments I read on youtube I'd be surprised if many of those people would be happy having those associated with their real names. Perhaps some would happily do that now, but what about in 10 years when they've grown up? ~~~ CodeCube Darwin's Law for the modern age ... don't write the comment if you can't take the credit ;) ------ kmfrk I don't really mind this, as long as it isn't retroactive. YouTube comments are a parody of themselves as it is. The newish development of trying to pander in order to reach the top comment position has made them even worse. ~~~ beefsack On the contrary, if it were applied retroactively, it would be a spectacle! ~~~ pavel_lishin "I cannot believe my mother typed those words. Or that she typed them so badly." ------ naner _Of course that may be YouTube (and Google's) whole point for making this change. "skipro865" calling you an "ugly douchebag" doesn't quite have the same feeling as having "George Jones" call you an "ugly douchebag"._ This is almost certainly not the case. If nasty comments were problematic Google could ban badly behaving users or take other measures. Accountability and identity are not the same thing, Google is pushing for identifying you not making you more accountable. Google has other motives likely related to building more accurate profiles for advertising and building out Google+. ------ mladenkovacevic I'm actually interested in using my real name but I would like to be able to employ pseudonyms as well (mostly to be able to interact as a brand). When you opt out of using your real name they ask you what the reason is and I think based on the feedback they get from that little survey they might extend the functionality to include multiple names in some way shape or form. (at least I hope). Google+ already has some of this ability with the brand pages so hopefully they carry that over into into YouTube. ~~~ alkimie The point is that they don't -want- you to use pseudonyms. I don't know about the rest of you but I segregate the various presences in the aether. What I found most offensive is that they omitted the option of saying that you did not want to use your real name solely because you didn't -want- to use your real name. I posted a short reaction at <http://youtu.be/Imhqt1vr3T8> Hopefully their search engine will pick it up. ~~~ mladenkovacevic doesn't the "personal use, cannot use my real name" box cover your concerns? ~~~ alkimie No, I don't believe so. I could (or can and do) use my real name. I simply don't -want- to use my real name. I dislike giving incorrect answers to questions. I did use that box when testing the new requirements for lack of a better fit. By so doing, I am allowing Youtube (Google) to misrepresent my reasons for declining to use my real name. I don't care for that. As I said in my video response, Youtube (Google) can either acknowledge my desire for a certain level of anonymity when I interact with youtube, or I simply will move to Vimeo or another provider. Like a lot of people, I'm kind of stuck on the gmail tar baby. It will be hard for me to step away from gmail. Youtube, on the other hand, is not something where I have built up a lot of utility. It could be that they simply have decided that Youtube will now focus on the 'professional' posters, and not worry so much about casual posters and users like myself. I believe that is a mistake because the people that make a buck (or think they might) on youtube start as casual users. I have noticed that youtube seems to be paying a lot more attention to the commercial users than to the casual users. That is their choice, but I'd bet that there will be other folks that would be only too happy to focus on the hoi pilloy. (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_polloi>) ~~~ mladenkovacevic Understood. Makes sense. It almost seems like they are preparing YouTube for some TV displacement role they hope it will play in the future. It's not just funny cat videos anymore.. you can watch live concerts, rent movies, watch lectures or even broadcast your own content live via hangouts. I'm not sure where the real name initiative fits into here, though. ------ drucken This change has been a positive development for me. It made me realise that in all my many online identities, 51 at last count, I use my real name in exactly one online service provider (excluding banks) - a non-Google email service for "In Real Life" communication. Just now, I changed this service profile to safeguard against the consequences of future copycat Google+ -like forced changes. Thanks for the heads-up, HN'ers! ------ deepGem And they are doing it elegantly. I don't even remember how I turned on the real identity feature. It was that seamless. ------ fluxon WTF, people, just turn on Comment Moderation. This should be on by default, instead of requiring "real" (har) names. ------ mmuro It'd be nice if I could change what my "display name" is anyways, whether you use Google+ or not (which I don't). ------ Spooky23 At least we know that nothing will make Youtube comments worse than they are right now. ------ leke I opened a new google account recently and when I tried youtube, I didn't even see the option to use my account name, my 'real name' from my email had already been chosen. ------ kmfrk If push comes to shove, is there a tool out there to export the links and titles of my favourite videos? ------ k3n Fuck G+. ------ gms This is a real shame. The comedy that is YouTube comments will be greatly diminished.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Eloquent Javascript - free Online Book with a console to try the language. - cfontes http://eloquentjavascript.net/chapter1.html ====== willyt I just read the first couple of chapters and I find it a bit painful to be honest. I am not a CS grad and I don't write software as my primary job though I do write code to solve problems in my discipline. I have programmed C, Ruby and Obj-C a bit over the years and I find the pace of this book too slow and overly wordy. Yet, I think a beginner would find it quite hard going. Thinking back to when I was first learning, the first exercise (2.1) has too many traps to trip up an absolute beginner and you wouldn't write a true/false expression like that in practice. So, I'm not sure who the target audience is for this book. But, I'll have a read of it anyway because it's the nicest 'Learn Javascript' web resource I've seen so far. Picaxe is still probably the best introduction to a language I have read, gets right in there quickly with minimum fuss. ~~~ grayrest The first few chapters are very dry. When I recommend this to people I normally tell them to skim the first chapters and skip forward if they're getting bored. If you hold out to at least chapter 6, I'm sure you'll find something worthwhile. ------ bergie The source for the book is on GitHub: <https://github.com/marijnh/Eloquent- JavaScript> There is also a CoffeeScript "port" of the book, since Eloquent JavaScript is open content: <http://autotelicum.github.com/Smooth-CoffeeScript/> ~~~ cfontes Thanks for the info, I found it really clever to have a working console really nicely integrated within the HTML book text. I am a Java developer and scala student myself but my mission to 2012 is to learn javascript and I am enjoying this book very much. ------ petercooper If you prefer print, like me, No Starch Press published it earlier this year too. Just checked on Amazon and even Brendan Eich gave it a review(!) :-) It's probably the best overall introduction I've seen so far, although other books do go further into the details, naturally. ~~~ hello_moto I heard the print edition has less materials (having said that I haven't actually checked line by line to confirm). ~~~ telemachos The print edition doesn't include Chapter 7 ("Searching") from the web edition. (There may be parts of the other chapters missing, but I'm not sure.) That said, Chapter 7 of the web edition begins this way: > This chapter does not introduce any new JavaScript-specific concepts. > Instead, we will go through the solution to two problems, discussing some > interesting algorithms and techniques along the way. If this does not sound > interesting to you, it is safe to skip to the next chapter. So maybe the author or the publisher (or both?) decided that chapter was a distraction or somehow wrong for the printed version. ------ cskau I wonder if this was posted pointing to /chapter1.html just to circumvent the limitation that you can't repost old posts. This was previously posted 681 days ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1056132> ~~~ cfontes No it was not, I simply didn't know nor tryed the principal page URL and wanted to point directly to the page were the console was... If Y combinator guys feels like, please remove the post and my points. ------ mark_l_watson I bought this as an e-book a while ago - I had never spent very much time coding Javascript and I bought the book to brush up. Recommended. BTW, I spent the weekend working on a Clojure + Javascript + Noir app for a customer and I actually enjoyed the Javascript part :-) ~~~ ludwigvan Have you considered using ClojureScript, instead? I wonder how mature it is at the moment. ~~~ mark_l_watson I have only played a bit with ClojureScript, not enough to have a real opinion. I think I will wait a while until it is in an API stable state and there are tools for auto building assets, etc. ------ scarmig A really great book. And now you can Javascript in the browser itself! ------ Cieplak Very well done. I read this book the week before I began a JavaScript class in college, and the first hundred pages alone were enough to get me through the course. ~~~ darushimo Great to hear. I'll be chipping away at this shortly. Thanks, Cieplak. ~~~ Cieplak No, thank you for writing such a wonderful piece. I just glanced over the first few chapters for the first time in over a year and was delighted. I remember stepping through that bit of assembly in chapter one with a pen and paper, then running the two js versions of the code in my browser. Some commenters have criticized the prose of the book; for me this really helped contextualize certain things that seasoned programmers take for granted. I would argue that this is more approachable for a beginner than Ritchie & Kernighan's book or SICP. But I suppose those aren't necessarily beginner books. For some reason, I like your book quite a lot more than a few introductory Python books I've read. Although Ruby is far more beautiful and useful to me than JS these days, I think it is a very bad idea to force object orientation onto beginners. It is better to let people ask for it when they need it, than to force it onto beginners (I can't help but think of Yegge's Execution in the Kingdom of Nouns). Accordingly, I think JS is a very suitable learning language because it provides a taste of object-oriented and functional programming, while maintaining a familiar C style syntax. Also, it's very powerful for event oriented programming, as demonstrated by node.js. I stopped programming in js because of frustration for lack of lisp-style macros, but perhaps clojurescript can fix this. ------ padenot For people that prefer to read french instead of english, this book has recently been translated over the course of a weekend by Mozilla volunteers and Framalang people : <http://books.lifeleaks.com/eloquentjavascript/>, <https://github.com/Pandark/Eloquent-Javascript-translation> ------ hkarthik Anyone know if this has been published as an epub? Thats my preferred way to consume e-Books these days since I can share bookmarks between my iPhone and iPad using iBooks. ~~~ skymt No Starch Press sells a DRM-free ePub version for $24: <http://nostarch.com/ejs> ------ carlsednaoui Looks really interesting, will start reading this tonight. ~~~ jenius Carl! weird that I saw you here. awesome book though, it will certainly help ~~~ carlsednaoui Haha, crazy coincidence!! ------ hoytie I feel like the repeated usage of "print()" in the beginning is more confusing than helpful. ------ bountie is the JS console custom-build, or from a library used elsewhere?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: My IFComp entry that aims to be 'Skyrim rendered in text' - filiph https://egamebook.com/vermin/v/ifcomp/ ====== csydas It's a cute little tool; though I guess I'm somewhat confused; is the "Show" here the egamebook site itself or is it your entry to the Interactive Fiction Competition? Because while your story is fun and overall well done, the system it's running on is pretty interesting to me; I was desperately clicking around the top level of the site looking for the option to make one for myself and play around with the scripting, and only after searching for what IFComp stood for did I start to get that this is a one off-entry I guess? If I am wrong, please correct me and point me to where I can play around with the system you've made, because it has nice flow to it. ~~~ lambda_tango Not OP, but the system is described at [0], and apparently hasn't been released yet. Code for this particular story appears to be available at [1], although: > This code depends on package:egamebook which is not yet open source. Until > that happens, you won't be able to build this project unless you're part of > the development team (reach out to filiphracek@ if you're interested). [0] [https://egamebook.com/](https://egamebook.com/) [1] [https://github.com/filiph/edgehead](https://github.com/filiph/edgehead) ~~~ filiph This is correct. Both these things (the game and the system) are kind of big, at least in terms of time invested, but what I released yesterday was the game. Technically, it's also the system's first major release (there was another small game 2 years ago [0]). If anyone wants to hack on this, I'm open to giving them access to the egamebook repo, somehow (I wish there was a github per-user privacy setting...). I just don't yet have the documentation and time to make a full open-source release — not at the quality I'd expect from a project like this. [0]: [https://egamebook.com/lochness/](https://egamebook.com/lochness/) ~~~ csydas I appreciate your response, as well as lambda_tango's. Not sure if it matters, but consider this my interest in this project as a user. I unfortunately am next to useless when it comes to programming, but I could easily see this being wonderful as a platform or integrated into plenty of existing platforms as a plugin. It's a very slick presentation and works well for what it's meaning to do. ------ treerock Looks fun. I really want keyboard controls though. ~~~ filiph Curious: what do you expect as keyboard controls. I've had this on my TODO list for ages and I have my own idea of what they should be, but I'd love to capture the expectations first, so that I don't break them. ~~~ treerock Mainly I saw there were number next to each option. I therefore expected to be able to hit the same number on the keyboard to make that choice, but it wasn't working. I believe this is what they call a false affordance[1]. [1]:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordance#False_affordances](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordance#False_affordances) ------ falsedan > _The system behind this game has been in the making for 7 years._ What are the parts of this system, and what were the blockers? The game is turgid, and the buttons are too big (the unchosen options should disappear on each decision point). ~~~ filiph Sorry you found the game turgid. What exactly does that mean? Are you referring to the writing, the design, the illustrations, the mechanics? I'm mapping the scatter of opinions on the game and precise explanations help me. You're asking about the parts of the system. The noteworthy are: * a STRIPS planner for the NPCs in the game that has to deal with stochastic actions * an NLG subsystem * all the usual game OOP stuff that would work with the above (immutable objects with semantics) * a layered storytelling framework But if you're asking about the 7 years, it's mostly a lot of pivots. The layered storytelling framework was an idea that I had for a very different game last year, for example. If I knew exactly what I'm building, it would take about 6 months of work, even with my limited free time. But that's not accounting for all the things I had to learn-by-doing along the way. ~~~ tarboreus I disagree about the "bigness" of the buttons, thought the presentation was notably pleasant. Leaving the old choices was helpful, I scrolled back once or twice to check something and it makes the game feel like you're reading a novel, which is cool. Also, the prose was a little purpleish, which is _exactly_ what you want for a low fantasy Hawardesque fantasy novel (or game), so no complaints there. I think "turgid" is perhaps overstating it. ~~~ falsedan > _the prose was a little purpleish, which is exactly what you want for a low > fantasy Hawardesque fantasy novel (or game)_ No no no, you go big or you go home. You can't be a little bit _The Eye of Argon_. ------ aw3c2 When I hear that my mind tingles with dread about the needed time investment ;) How big/long is the game? I love the presentation! ~~~ treerock There is a walkthrough available. [https://egamebook.com/vermin/v/ifcomp/ifcomp_submission/Insi...](https://egamebook.com/vermin/v/ifcomp/ifcomp_submission/Insignificant%20Little%20Vermin%20Walkthrough.pdf) ------ hobofan > "I'll live," she says. This has to be some kind of running gag :D	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Beal Conjecture - tokenadult http://www.bealconjecture.com/ ====== tokenadult I see Peter Norvig, LISP hacker and director of research at Google, has written about this conjecture. <http://norvig.com/beal.html> He has a suggestion for what to do with part of the prize money if you win the prize for proving the conjecture. According to Noam Elkies, as reported on WolframMathWorld, "This conjecture is more properly known as the Tijdeman-Zagier conjecture (Elkies 2007)."	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Facebook Guesses Your Political Views and Serves Ads Accordingly - gnicholas http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/24/us/politics/facebook-ads-politics.html ====== gnicholas In my case, FB's political guess was way off. FB Interests also indicated that my primary browser is Safari, even though I use Chrome exclusively. The first mistake is understandable given the politics of many of my friends. The second mistake is a bit harder to understand. I guess they've got some work to do over at 1 Hacker Way...	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Accept VC funding or re-apply to YC? - Aliada We where rejected on our second interview for this batch. It was a bummer. We now have term sheets for a 3M round. I really want to work with YC before really scaling, specially Kevin, Michael and Adora. Should we wait, bootstrap and apply for the summer batch or take the terms. They are from great investors from LATAM and one super Angel (Square and Codeacademy Investor) ====== sebleon Accept the VC funding! From pg: "If someone makes you an acceptable offer, take it. If you have multiple incompatible offers, take the best. Don't reject an acceptable offer in the hope of getting a better one in the future." [1] And hey, you might be able to convince those YC partners to advise you without going through the program. [1] [http://paulgraham.com/fr.html](http://paulgraham.com/fr.html) ------ brudgers Simple heuristic: what's the better business decision? Both acceptance to YC and raising money from a VC are means to end. Neither is a product people will pay for or a company with clear and obvious value. Good luck.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
24 year old Ogilvy China employee dies from 'overwork' - jentulman http://shanghaiist.com/2013/05/15/24_year_old_ogilvy_china_employee_dies_from_overwork.php ====== kayoone Sudden cardiac arrest can, in theory, happen to anyone at anytime, its just that its an extremely rare occurrence. Most of those cases can be traced back to a previously unknown heart disease though. In general, the probability of you dieing in an accident on your way to/from work is alot higher. The fact that i read about 3 cases of sudden cardiac arrest in very young and seemingly healthy people on HN in a rather short period is a bit discomforting though. ------ patio11 For anyone who thinks death from overwork merits scare quotes: I really, really can't recommend becoming a salaryman, but it would change your mind. ~~~ ChuckMcM The article says 600,000 people a year die from "Work Exhaustion" (their quotes not mine). That reminds me of the conditions that lead to the rise of labor unions, although in looking at various sources it seems that China already has unions of one form or another? Clearly not doing their job if that is the case. ~~~ scarmig Chinese unions are pretty close to what were called company unions back in the day. Organized and controlled by the people sitting at the opposite side of the table. In the case of China, government officials who benefit personally when industrial interests in their domain are really profitable. ------ akamaka “Hard work never killed a man. Men die of boredom, psychological conflict, and disease. They do not die of hard work.” -David Ogilvy (from _Confessions of an Advertising Man_ , 1963) ~~~ derleth Nonsense. If you do more work than you take in calories, you will eventually die of that work. If you work through injury, the injury will get worse and may well kill you. ~~~ chc > _If you do more work than you take in calories, you will eventually die of > that work._ No, you'll die of starvation. If you're not taking in sufficient nutrients, you'll die even if you do no work at all. ~~~ dubfan Your body is doing work through basal metabolism even while sitting idle. Starving to death and being overworked to death are basically the same thing. ------ ig1 There's plenty of people (in every competitive industry from startups to consulting) who work until 11pm everyday without having heart attacks, presumably there were other factors at play here. ~~~ craigching I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but it could be due to the type of work he was doing. Until I know what sort of work he was doing, I'm not going to judge or compare it to me working on software until 11pm every day. ~~~ ig1 He works for a creative PR agency, it's not as if he's going to be hauling steel. ------ denzil_correa It seems over work a serious problem in China. 600,000 Chinese workers die from overwork annually. That's quite huge. [http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass- cnt.aspx?cid=110...](http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass- cnt.aspx?cid=1103&id=20121029000069) ------ venus This is so common in Japan they have a word for it. Which came in useful for naming our group at a previous company: "Team Karoshi". ~~~ hawflakes I think they use the same term in Chinese. It's "过劳死" which in pinyin is "guo4lao2si3" (over work death) ~~~ venus Ah, it's the same in Japanese - 過労死 (mandarin has the simplified characters). ------ mellotron Any statistics on US deaths like this? I couldn't seem to find anything particularly useful. I just mean to say that China is an enormous country, and statistically these things are bound to happen. Does anyone else perceive this type of media coverage as part of a greater strategy of propagandizing or is the oversturation of news outlets just hungry for enything sensationalist to grab eyeballs? Both? ~~~ objclxt Sudden cardiac arrest is quite common amongst the population as a whole (<http://www.sca-aware.org/about-sca>). What's rather uncommon is it to happen at a young age, but it's not unknown. In the four years I was at college two students suffered fatal arrests, both thought to be healthy with no prior symptoms. ------ lefstathiou I am a bit surprised this happened. While working until 11PM every day is mentally frustrating, I am curious as to the physical toll it actually takes on your body. Said differently, is there a difference between being awake until 11PM every night and being at the office? I've watched analysts and associates in investment banking keep up this schedule for years at a time... Now, if you told me he was getting in at 9 and leaving at 5 every day for 6 weeks, this would make sense and I can see how this would be problematic for Ogilvy. With what we have in this article, I think he suffered from a heart condition. ~~~ GFischer I live in Uruguay, and the kind of medical checks most of the population has are so superficial, most people who have a heart condition won't know about it until it hits (I haven't had a good checkout in years either !! I should, after reading this). I know of a case here, the guy was one of 3 managers at a toxic company, the other 2 guys quit, and he took on their burdens. He died of a heart attack, at age 34. He thought he wasn't able to quit because of his children, but the result was obviously worse for them. ------ iamjason89 Kira! Where are you L. We need you now! ------ maeon3 I think the key to solving the root of the problem here is understanding that there is such a thing as: "Cooperative compliance disorder", which is the other end of the spectrum of "Oppositional defiant disorder". So the question becomes: How did this person get to believe that when the desires of other men are of higher priority than your own physical health. Like cell in your own hand, it did not object when the mind decide to send the hand through the fire, he gave his life so that the whole might complete its objective. Cooperative Compliance disorder. ~~~ potatolicious We really don't need to pathologize everything. In a sufficiently perverse environment, choosing to sacrifice your own well being for the good of someone else can be a rational decision - it can be the _only_ rational decision. When gatekeepers control access to wealth, stability, and a good life - and the alternative to working for the gatekeepers is poverty and disease - you basically will do anything the gatekeepers want, because the alternative is nearly as good as death itself. Without knowing more about this incident, it strikes me as a symptom of a broken system, not a broken man. ~~~ maeon3 If Oppositional Defiant Disorder gets a spot in the mental illness book to be medicated, than Excessive Cooperation to your own detriment should also be medicated. I believe women suffer from this mental illness a lot more than men. The fact that one end of the spectrum gets to be a mental illness and the other end of the spectrum is just someone choosing to be a doormat illustrates a big problem. Either they are both mental illnesses, or they are both just ways of going about things. Humans who always cooperate or always defy to the detriment of their own life means that the module in their brain which decides when to comply, and when to resist, is a malfunction to be corrected by available means. ~~~ Centigonal This is not my opinion on the point you and Potatolicious are debating, but rather my opinion on the way you replied. You present an idea (that it might benefit people for society to consider excessive cooperation a treatable mental illness). You posit the parent article as evidence for this idea. Potatolicious replies, expressing his doubts. He presents an idea (that the system the man was working in caused his death, not an innate psychological condition). If valid, his idea eliminates the evidence for your idea, making it less credible and no longer relevant to the article. What I see as a rational response to this is to either point out a flaw in Potatolicious's idea (if one exists) or to introduce information that would make it so that Potatolicious's idea doesn't invalidate yours. Instead, you restate your initial point (albeit in greater detail), and introduce a kind of argument from continuum ("if people who are excessively oppositional are medicated, why shouldn't the other end be as well?"), which, although not invalid, doesn't do anything to refute Potatolicious's point about the relevance of your argument to the parent article. Furthermore, you introduce a new opinion, which is not related to your previous points or supported by evidence, and only serves to polarize people. I'm trying to explain this in the hope that we as a community can move toward more directed and effective debates. I hope that helped. ~~~ maeon3 I'm playing a cat and mouse with ideas a few layers deeper than your logic structures are outlining. (perhaps getting lost in the weeds and losing the main point as a result). Potatolicious is right, that the system is partially responsible for his death. And if most of the responsibility ends up on the evil system, then it could be said his excessive compliance should be praised and admired. That compliance isn't an illness at all. He was just eaten by a larger critter than he, and used as fuel for ulterior motives. But his claim does not invalidate mine because suppose this evil corporation is 100% guilty, and they used all the Jedi mind tricks to brainwash him into working himself to death for their own gain. He complied when he should have defied. They were offering him money, the lack of which may be as bad as death to the victim, but ultimately the source of the error was when an instruction which results in destruction was followed by the unit. If the unit had said: "I would rather be unemployed than deal with this terrible situation", he may be alive now. He's removed from the gene pool anyway, so evolution agrees with me, whatever that subunit did, it is to be destroyed. I'm suggesting we destroy the faulty subunits in his mind during school, by labeling "Cooperative compliance disorder" as a real thing that can remove you from the gene pool. ------ michaelochurch When things like this happen, names, pictures, and home addresses of responsible managers should be posted on the Internet so that the good fight can start. ~~~ Samuel_Michon That is really not OK. People who publish such information and call for vigilante justice should be found and prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Even if we knew with 100% certainty that the boss played a role in this guy’s death (which we don’t), then it would be up to the DA and the court, not the angry mob with pitchforks or the cowardly script kids on 4chan. ~~~ michaelochurch Vigilante justice is terrible but I don't see anything else doing the job; it may be a last resort but I think our globalist-corporatist society is At That Point. The people with connections and resources own the politicians (all over the world) who make the laws. Besides, even if one country does everything right, the parasites in charge of the world can just move their money around. I've been saying since the late '90s that health insurance executives should be publicly exposed when they murder people, and I still feel that way. If the courts were actually cracking down on those fuckers, then I'd say that vigilante justice is unwarranted; but how many health-insurance murderers _are_ in prison? The fuckers kill 45,000 per year (a 9/11 every 24 days) and I don't know of _one_ who has gone to prison. Why do we tear the shit out of two Middle Eastern nations (one of which had nothing to do with it) over 3,000 dead but allow health insurers to kill half a million over that same decade and not even give them personal civil liability? ~~~ FD3SA All societies tend toward Feudalism given enough time. The rent seekers control everything, and the masses surrender their liberty in exchange for security. History has demonstrated this countless times, which is why the Bill of Rights enshrined the right of the public to form militias to protect their own rights (the original 2nd Amendment). Unfortunately, over two centuries the rent seekers have won again, so a reboot is required. How to initiate and sustain a successful reboot is the tricky part. I sense from your writings that you are increasingly frustrated with the current state of affairs. I just want to emphasize that you aren't the only one, and if you were to formalize your dissent into an actionable movement, many would support you. The time may have come for the Technocrat to take his place on the world stage... ~~~ xradionut It's not a technical problem. It's a moral/ethical problem where most the long term solutions that would work are very dark in the short term. ------ Torn Why is this in hacker news? ~~~ prawn Because a user found it suitable enough to submit and a few others agreed with that submission enough to upvote it. ~~~ eli_gottlieb Since this site has stricter guidelines than Reddit, that's not actually an answer. ~~~ prawn Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what Reddit has to do with this. HN is about what hackers find interesting. A fair number of us have endorsed this particular topic and resulting discussion, enough to suggest that people find it interesting for one reason or another. ~~~ davidw Does one need to be a hacker to sign up for this site? As a thought experiment, do you think it would be that difficult to get, say, 15 or 20 people who love professional bike racing to sign up, and coordinate voting up an article about Bradley Wiggins' difficulties at the Giro d'Italia, which some of us hackers find to be very interesting reading?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’ - eplanit https://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-biggest-cities-confront-a-defecation-crisis-11565994160?mod=rsswn ====== lettergram I recall a homeless guy in SF laying in front of the Alameda ferry terminal. He had pooped and was smearing it over the door, ground, and was rolling in it. The other passengers and myself were just watching. I remember watching everyone’s faces and us deciding what to do. This was fairly normal for all of us. The coast guard came off the incoming ferry and basically joined us. It wasn’t their job, eventually we got some security and even they were like... “ugh, I don’t know if it’s safe to move him”. Eventually all of us just routed around the homeless man via the other doors (usually for getting off the ferry). No one taking care of the problem, to my knowledge. Can’t really blame anyone for not wanting to move a man covered in feces. But I agree this is a crisis and I honestly don’t know who they will get willing to solve that problem. ~~~ tomjen3 In a different country, some sailor would be tasked with removing him, and would just hose everything away with the firehose (it runs on whatever water the ship sails in, so the only cost is the power to move the water through it). I am not sure it would be a better solution, but it seems to me that the current status where you can't enforce basic societal rules, like don't roll in shit in public, because the only social sanction, exclusion, can't be applied is simply unsustainable and quite frankly we need to make it possible to arrest people who act this way (and ensure they are arrested). ------ hristov This is very much a problem but it is incorrectly stated as California's problem. This America’s problem. It just so happens that because California is relatively rich, tends to have some of the most tolerable year round weather and the people are relatively compassionate a large percentage of the homeless of all of America are moving to California. How many times have you heard some politician or just an ordinary person from the south or the midwest say something to the effect “we have a great homelessness policy, we buy each homeless person a bus ticket to California and send them on their way!” They usually say this with pride or with a laugh instead of being embarrassed as they should be. In fact if i remember correctly this was part of the plot of a south park episode (although i do not exactly remember whether south park endorsed or mocked that policy). So lets not treat this as some failure on California’s part. It is failure of the entire USA. The reasons are the usual ones— lack of mental health treatment for the poor, drug addiction, lack of social safety nets in general. And of course there is one new very scary reason — out of control health care costs that force people that were and should be fully functioning members of society into suffering and homelessness. ~~~ chucksmash > How many times have you heard some politician or just an ordinary person > from the south or the midwest say something to the effect “we have a great > homelessness policy, we buy each homeless person a bus ticket to California > and send them on their way!” They usually say this with pride or with a > laugh instead of being embarrassed as they should be. In fact if i remember > correctly this was part of the plot of a south park episode (although i do > not exactly remember whether south park endorsed or mocked that policy). Zero times? This seems like a lazy characterization and citing South Park doesn't really help your case. According to this Guardian article on homeless busing in the US[1], these sorts of programs tend to originate in the Western states: > A count earlier this year found half a million homeless people on one night > in America. The problem is most severe in the west, where rates of > homelessness are skyrocketing in a number of major cities, and where states > like California, Nevada, Oregon and Washington have some of the highest > rates of per capita homelessness. > _These are also the states where homeless relocation programs are > concentrated_. Using public record laws, the Guardian obtained data from 16 > cities and counties that give homeless people free bus tickets to live > elsewhere. Key West and Ft Lauderdale are discussed in the article; Atlanta is mentioned as having been criticized for this in the run-up to the 1996 Olympics. That said, jumping immediately to "we all know how those darn Southerners and Midwesterners are" doesn't seem to jive with the facts. [1]: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- interactive/2017/dec/...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country- study) ~~~ hristov Here is an example of nevada giving homeless people with mental problems bus tickets to california instead of treating them. [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/nevada- settles-...](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/nevada-settles- busing-homeless-lawsuit-san-francisco/) This is article about bloomberg himself defending his program to send homeless to california: [https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/mayor- defends-...](https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/mayor-defends-one- way-tickets-for- homeless/?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=A3D05907E1A9A40F2CEECA3736EE0948&gwt=pay&assetType=REGIWALL) The quote you have from the guardian is about cities that attract homeless trying to reverse the process by sending the homeless (willingly) back where they come from. These programs attempt to be more responsible because they will only give a free ticket if they can make sure that the homeless person will not be homeless at the end of their destination. This does not always work out as intended as the guardian article explains but at least conceptually it is the right idea. ------ scurvy Let's also not forget the animal element of street poop here. I live in Russian Hill, a not rough part of SF, and I daily see people neglecting to clean up after their dogs. These people belong to no particular group: young, old, rich, poor, students, tourists, your neighbors. There's something about this city that attracts people who just don't give a damn. It's unsustainable for those of us who do. Also, homeless people tend to poop in between parked cars on the street or in doorways. If you see a fresh turd in the middle of the sidewalk, I'd say better than 75% chance it came from Fido, not Frank. EDIT, I might live in Russian Hill but I walk through the Tenderloin every work day for my commute. I see it all. ------ henryl “Seattle Is Dying” is a great investigative report about the problems and potential solutions to homelessness. Also applicable to SF. [https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw](https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw) ~~~ cbHXBY1D I've seen this video and it's a Sinclair hit piece. Not worth the time of anyone who wants to engage in an informed discussion. It's 2019 and this propaganda piece (yes, it's propaganda) is arguing mass incarceration is the solution. ------ throebd It is a ban of plastic bags from supermarkets. People have some decency, but with ban there is no way to dispose excrements. ~~~ ribeyes Also, banning plastic bags and straws has no positive impact on the environment. [https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-...](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are- plastic-bag-bans-garbage) ~~~ greglindahl "That said, these bans do reduce nonbiodegradable litter." ------ baby Serious question. Where are people supposed to go to the restroom when the is no public restroom around? ~~~ samsonradu This is an issue in some cities in western Europe also, there are no free restrooms available. No wonder everything around train/subway stations smells like piss. ------ CydeWeys "But there was no “defecation crisis”—a term usually associated with rural India—in the 1930s, even with unemployment at 25%, vagabonds roaming the country, and shantytowns and “Hoovervilles” springing up everywhere." [citation needed] Bodily waste has been a huge problem for shantytowns across all of recorded history. I doubt that Hoovervilles had some unique solution to the problem that has not been replicated since. ~~~ nradov Hooverville residents were mostly not mentally ill or drug addicts. They probably dug pit latrines. ------ rasz When I watched Jennifer Garners Peppermint (2018) I naturally assumed typical Hollywood hyperbole. But then I saw this: Skid Row, Downtown Los Angeles [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTSDuQET94](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTSDuQET94) ------ hello_tyler You could easily solve this problem by converting a small portion of major parks into homelessness crisis centers. Somewhere for people to sleep safely, with facilities, and resources for reintegration. Everyone blames the homeless though, they will rarely vote to actually help them but seem content to assuage their guilt by dropping a dollar into the can or praying for them. As if that helps. ------ ajross > _The triple scourges of drug abuse, mental illness and family breakdown have > produced anomie and derangements far deeper than those seen in the 1930s_ Completely unsourced nonsense. As if there were no homeless families or mental illness in the great depression. Even drug abuse isn't a modern thing, though the chemicals have changed. I mean it doesn't even pass the basic (heh) smell test of "would you rather walk the streets of San Francisco in 1931 or 2019? I mean, come on. ~~~ jquery It's the classic apocalyptic mindset, of which we seem to have plenty of in 2019: "things are worse than _ever_ " even though that's not borne out by the evidence[1] [1][https://singularityhub.com/2016/06/27/why-the-world-is- bette...](https://singularityhub.com/2016/06/27/why-the-world-is-better-than- you-think-in-10-powerful-charts/) ~~~ Tade0 Because the evidence is cherry-picked. Humans may be doing better (for now), but it all came at a great cost to the environment. ------ notus i wonder if incentivizing the homeless to use bathrooms would work... free meal, joint, w/e ~~~ pmoriarty All you have to do is have plenty of public bathrooms nearby and keep them clean. Neither of those is the case in SF. There are almost no public bathrooms, and those that exist tend to be disgusting. ------ weeksie Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have _nothing_ like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house the damned homeless. And for fuck's sake, it's not the weather. Our parks aren't by any means pristine but we don't suddenly sprout tent cities every summer. The whole CA homeless crisis is a self-inflicted wound. For reference, an article in SF Gate: "67 percent of Bay Area homeless are unsheltered. In New York, it's 5%" [https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-homeless- uns...](https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-homeless- unsheltered-67-percent-NYC-13757259.php) ~~~ holycrapwhodat > In New York we have more homeless per capita... At least based on latest 2018 numbers I found for both cities, that's not true. NYC 78676 homeless with 8398748 residents. SF 9784 homeless with 870877 residents. 106 residents per homeless individual in NYC. Only 89 residents per homeless individual in SF. > And for fuck's sake, it's not the weather. Our parks aren't by any means > pristine but we don't suddenly sprout tent cities every summer. I'm certainly not blaming it on the weather either. But this statement kind of misses the point on how exceptional our weather is. Our tent cities get to grow year round without interruption because it's mostly warm enough in the winter and cool enough in the summer to live outside full time. The rest of your points stand without caveat. We don't build enough housing at all and we're incompetent at building shelters (at least ones that the homeless are willing and able to use) ~~~ tpowell I’m listening to a collection of Malcolm Gladwell essays and was somewhat blown over by one about power-law distribution of homelessness[1]. Basically a small, stubborn minority of the homeless population are financially worth housing (by far). “That is what is so perplexing about power-law homeless policy. From an economic perspective the approach makes perfect sense. But from a moral perspective it doesn’t seem fair.” [1] [http://dpbh.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/A%20MillionDollarMurray.pdf](http://dpbh.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/A%20MillionDollarMurray.pdf) ------ pjc50 > Without wishing to return to the Elizabethan Poor Laws, we ought to consider > what was lost when the courts discouraged Americans from thinking of > “homelessness” in light of the old laws against vagrancy. Ah, so we're back to imprisoning the homeless (at huge expense) rather than providing, say, public toilets or shelter facilities. Not only is the WSJ not learning from history, they don't _want_ to learn from history. That's because the article is written by this guy: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Kesler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Kesler) ~~~ ravenstine There _are_ public toilets in some of these cities. San Francisco has had self-cleaning public toilets for a long time, but probably has the worst feces problem of any first world country. On Google maps, it appears there are at least 20 public bathrooms in SF within a few miles radius. That's way more than I see when searching for the same thing in Santa Monica, another homeless mecca that doesn't have anywhere near the same problem with defecation. I'm skeptical that these toilets have much of an effect. Don't get me wrong, I do think there should be public toilets, and perhaps more of them. But if the homeless were that easy to reason with, perhaps we wouldn't have so many on the streets in the first place. ~~~ pmoriarty There should be at least one clean and safe public toilet per block that has a "defecation crisis". Instead, SF has maybe one public toilet per 20 or 30 blocks in the most concentrated downtown areas, if that. I personally know of only maybe 3 or 4 public toilets in all of SF. Toilet use at private businesses is also sometimes an option, but often in neighborhoods with large homeless populations those businesses either restrict toilet use to customers or only let the staff use their toilets. Of course, homeless people can rarely afford to keep spending money to purchase things from these businesses multiple times per day just to use their toilets, not to mention that virtually all these businesses close for the night in SF, making it impossible to find a toilet in some areas at night. ~~~ cameldrv Bingo. SF has had a big homeless population for some time unfortunately, but the poop on the streets is fairly new. What changed? 1\. ADA private right of action spawned a class of professional plaintiffs that sue businesses over (in many cases) minor technical ADA violations like not having a coat hook at the right height in the bathroom. Many, many businesses closed their bathrooms to the public because of this. 2\. Less intervention by police. In SF, the police won't arrest you for shooting heroin in a bathroom or trashing it. If the business owner calls about someone doing this, the police won't respond. The simple solution is to close the bathroom to the public. 3\. Street defication effectively legalized. Similar to #2, the police won't arrest you if you poop on the street. This is different than most cities, and different than what was historically true in SF. ~~~ pmoriarty _" 1\. ADA private right of action spawned a class of professional plaintiffs that sue businesses over (in many cases) minor technical ADA violations like not having a coat hook at the right height in the bathroom. Many, many businesses closed their bathrooms to the public because of this."_ I'd like to see the stats on the number of frivolous ADA lawsuits that caused businesses to close their bathrooms. In my personal experience, few businesses have no bathrooms whatsoever and the businesses that make their bathrooms off-limits to the public or require you be a customer to use the bathroom tend to be in areas with high homeless populations. In areas where there are few homeless the businesses almost never have a problem with a non-customer using their bathroom. This tells me that these businesses primarily have a problem with homeless people using their bathrooms, not any kind of fear over being sued over ADA violations. _" 3\. Street defication effectively legalized. Similar to #2, the police won't arrest you if you poop on the street. This is different than most cities, and different than what was historically true in SF."_ Do we really want to fill our already overcrowded, mortally dangerous prisons with more homeless people? Why not just build more bathrooms, shelters, and affordable housing? ~~~ cameldrv The ADA thing is relatively new. If you go anywhere in California, not just areas with a large homeless population, you'll find most businesses do not have a public restroom. This is different than every other state I've been to. This is because California has the Unruh Civil Rights Act, which makes each ADA violation subject to $4000 statutory damages, regardless of the actual damages. Thousands of these cases are filed every year in California. California businesses don't want to be exposed to this liability, so most of them have closed their public restrooms. This lack of bathrooms creates a sort of death spiral. In high homeless areas, the few remaining ones have to serve more homeless people. Dealing with a parade of homeless people using public bathrooms as a shower or shooting up causes the remaining businesses to close their bathrooms. It becomes more difficult for homeless people to use the bathroom, so rather than go to the trouble of finding one, many use the street. On the enforcement side, I'm not really trying to be proscriptive, just descriptive. Jail is not a nice place. The threat of being arrested though is a deterrent to crime. If there is no deterrent to pooping on the street, and the alternative is difficult, people are going to poop on the street. ~~~ pmoriarty _" If there is no deterrent to pooping on the street, and the alternative is difficult, people are going to poop on the street."_ So what is the alternative when there are no public bathrooms around? To me it doesn't sound like there is one. So why arrest people when they have no choice? ~~~ cameldrv As I said, I was being descriptive, not proscriptive. Obviously in a civilized society, everyone has access to a bathroom. Also obviously in a civilized society, people use the facilities provided and clean up after themselves. Those that are incapable or unwilling to do this either go into drug treatment, get mental healthcare, or if they are unwilling to do either of these and insist on being a public nuisance, they go to jail. SF is failing to accomplish any of these things despite a gigantic budget. ~~~ pmoriarty _" As I said, I was being descriptive, not proscriptive. Obviously in a civilized society, everyone has access to a bathroom."_ I don't know which civilized society you were describing, but it's not San Francisco. I would agree that that would be ideal, though. _" Also obviously in a civilized society, people use the facilities provided and clean up after themselves. Those that are incapable or unwilling to do this either go into drug treatment, get mental healthcare, or if they are unwilling to do either of these and insist on being a public nuisance, they go to jail."_ Except society's problems are not solved by sending people to jail. Quite often they just get worse. First, the punishment of sending someone who shits on a sidewalk to a jail where they are likely to be raped, beaten, or killed is far out of proportion to the crime they've committed. Few would agree that rape or death was an appropriate punishment for shitting on a sidewalk, yet that's precisely what many people send to US jails face. Hopefully you'd agree that in the very civilized society you speak of, spending time in jail for shitting on a sidewalk would have little probability of bodily harm, rape, or death to the perpetrator. But we don't live in that society. Second, many people who are sent to jail get out worse than they came in. They are more likely to commit crimes, and are often denied job opportunities or places to live because they've been convicted of crimes. Now, that might not matter as much for homeless people, except that if they're ever to have a hope of being integrated back in to society they shouldn't have the extra stigma of having been incarcerated (especially not for something they couldn't help, like simply going to the bathroom when there were no bathrooms around). Third, it costs a great deal of money to keep someone in jail, the money would be better spent on bathrooms, housing, and mental health care. _" SF is failing to accomplish any of these things despite a gigantic budget."_ If there really is plenty of money, it's clearly being misspent. At least we can agree on that, though I have a feeling that if we looked at the details there'd be plenty to disagree about over which money is being misspent, how to spend it, which programs to cut, and which to fund. ~~~ cameldrv My intent is not coming through correctly here. What I'm saying is that to the extent that we have a bunch of people that don't have anywhere to use the bathroom, SF is not civilized. Now it's also not true that there is literally nowhere to use the bathroom, but various policies have made it more difficult to find a place and many homeless people who may also be high, drunk, or crazy, don't make the effort. As for jail, jail is a nasty place. It is certainly a destructive form of punishment. We don't have many other forms of punishment though in our legal system. In SF, it has been decided that because jail is a bad punishment, that not punishing at all is superior. This gets you rampant car break-ins, shoplifting, and people being assaulted on the street. The purpose of jail is not to put people in jail, it's to convince people to not commit crimes because they fear it. For drug addicts, a stint in jail often is what forces them to kick the habit. Unfortunately the SF city jail is full of drugs. I'd be all for alternate methods of punishment that are less destructive. Make the street pooper clean up the street for a couple of days, say. Budget-wise, SF spends almost $300 million a year on the homeless. I can't tell you where it all goes, but that is a lot of money to spend for the result SF is getting. ------ buboard What percentage of HN users live in the Bay area? ~~~ erikpukinskis Half. ------ madengr Reminds me of the Southpark where Cartman is traversing San Francisco in a moon suite. ------ sbhn The defecation crisis is see is the eagerness of law fearing citizens to put a substance that decomposes back into nature in about a week, into a plastic bag that will still have its contents nicely stored, and brewing, ready to be freed, for years to come. ~~~ gshdg Riiight... have you ever read about what’s happened in places with high concentrations of humans that tried to return their bodily wastes to nature? See also London’s Great Stink. ------ officemonkey Could it be dogs or could it be people? What economic factors could lead people to stop picking up dog poop? Have poop bags gone so far up in price that it's impossible for the average person to purchase poop bags? ~~~ Hydraulix989 It's people. ~~~ scurvy It's more than half dogs. People in SF just don't care. Also, it wasn't such a good idea to give shelter animals to the permanent homeless. Now not only can they not get into a shelter, but now something else is dropping turds on the street and not being picked up. ------ akiselev _> Under that understanding, no one had a right to camp out indefinitely on public property, much less to defecate on it. Public property belonged to the public—to everyone—and couldn’t be privatized for the benefit of one or more vagrants, however poor or sick. Though that principle would need to be applied to modern circumstances, it is the indispensable starting point for thinking about the shocking problems of the Golden State._ Anyone else find this to be a rather entirely perverse way of thinking about public spaces? Public space is meant to be used by the public and a homeless person has just as much right to use it as anyone else, for as long as they want to. I might be _annoyed_ that they have taken over my favorite park bench but thats part and parcel for living in a society and I don't have a right (morally, if not legally) to use ordinances to stop them Obviously, it's a whole different issue if we're talking about public health but the solution is to build more public bathrooms and shelters, not criminalize existence. And to nitpick: considering how much of the west coast is wilderness owned by the Federal government and managed by BLM, you sure as hell do have a right to defecate on public property. It's literally in our nature. ~~~ kipqi Using != abusing. Camping in a public space means taking part of it for yourself, permanently. In other words, you're taking away the right of the rest of citizens of using that part of public space. Defecating is a public health issue, too. ~~~ ravenstine Exactly. People defecate in the woods all the time, but they have the decency to at least dig a hole and cover it. Just because it's natural to take a shit doesn't mean we should be stepping in it. ~~~ CydeWeys Even shitting in the woods isn't great, it's just that most people won't use the better but grosser alternative (shitting in a sealable bag). In parks where restrooms are provided, like the Grand Canyon, shitting outside of restrooms isn't allowed. Anywhere the foot traffic gets high enough, the park service will put in restrooms and require people to use them to defecate, because the alternative is pretty bad. Even in the wilderness.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: I made an RSS News Reader that prioritizes topics you care about - eugenv https://www.zuperlist.com/ ====== eugenv Hello HN, I've been working for a while on an intelligent RSS news reader. At its core, it works just like any other RSS news reader: you subscribe to the sites that you want to follow and you get delivered everything published there. The difference is that the news aren't sorted chronologically, they're sorted by how close they are to your interests. Zuperlist also remembers when you open the web app and separates the news by these moments. When you open it, you see what's new and noteworthy since your last visit. Another nice feature: related news are grouped together. There are some ways to bypass the recommendations engine: \- you can mark specific sites as highlighted and see everything published by them, before anything else \- you can mark specific topics as highlighted and see everything that matches them. For example, mark Bitcoin as highlighted and see everything about Bitcoin in a separate block, regardless of recommendations \- everything that doesn't match your interests is still available at the bottom of the news feed, where it's categorized by topic and by site There are also some measures taken against creating a perfect filter bubble: \- you get a quick glimpse at the most shared news, even if they don't match your interests \- you get a few recommendations from sites you didn't subscribe to \- from time to time you're shown a few items from a topic that's outside your interests Sure, it's not perfect yet, but it works ok. I've been using it during the development and I love it, although I may be a bit biased :) If you're intrigued by the idea, give it a try and let me know what you think. The zuperlist.com site works on both desktop and mobile, so there's no need to install an app. ~~~ tschellenbach Is the code open source? Would be cool to learn more. ~~~ eugenv No, it's not open source at the moment. ~~~ craftyguy that's too bad. ------ tschellenbach Very cool. A little while ago we created Winds, an open source RSS reader that uses machine learning to figure out what you're interested in. It's leveraging React/Redux, Stream and Algolia. An updated version is in the works: [http://github.com/getstream/winds](http://github.com/getstream/winds) And the Hnews discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12932429](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12932429) ------ blakesterz Looks neat, one thing I love about my RSS reader still is it doesn't try to guess what I like. I have all my sites in there, many of them are blogs, and while most of them focus on a topic, they also post random stuff that's just interesting. I'm afraid of losing that. It's like what Facebook and Twitter do "for" me when they pick and choose what I see there. It's like browsing the shelves of a library vs. using Amazon's recommendations. Sometimes a recommendation from some algorithm is fine, sometimes it's cool to just browse the shelves. My feed reader is still one of my favorite things because it shows me random stuff I had no idea I'd be interested in because the sites I've picked are already doing a good job. I'm afraid if something else filters out the things it thinks I don't like then I'm going to lose out on some really interesting things. This is exactly how I found Hacker News, I had no idea what this site was before it just turned up in my feed reader a few years ago. (I'm way old school when it comes to my feeds probably) ~~~ eugenv I understand. That's why I added the feature to bypass the recommendations engine for some feeds, so that you could still see everything published by favorite blogs. That way the recommendations engine can only watch high-volume sites. ------ desireco42 I really like that you are clear about what is free and how much it cost. Plus I welcome the idea. It is successful in China and it is needed. ~~~ eugenv Thanks for the feedback! Well, I hate it when some sites show you a large monthly price and in a corner it says "billed anually." So I wanted to be as clear as possible. ------ baldfat Sad that RSS has been dropped by so many news sources. It was awesome during the heydays of Google Reader. ------ blocked_again The website looks really cool. Do you use some service for fetching RSS feeds of parse it all by yourself? ~~~ eugenv Thanks! I use a python lib (feedparser) for parsing the RSS. ------ kuwze Reminded me of this[0]. [0]: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-24/in- battle...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-24/in-battle-for- talent-one-startup-founder-tries-unlimited-pay) ------ jaux Do you plan to have a desktop version? ~~~ eugenv No, I didn't plan to have a desktop version until now. But anything could change, based on feedback :) ------ newman8r am I able to download all the RSS links so I can put them into my own reader? ~~~ eugenv Yes, you can export the list of subscribed sites to an OPML file that you can later import in another RSS reader.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Is there a hiring season for developers? - nemrow What is the best time of the year to apply for developer jobs? Is there a bad time? ====== michaelpinto That might depend upon the city, industry and your skill set if you think about it. I'm sure if you had some rare in demand skill and are based in silicon valley that people might pouch you at 1am at a bar if met the HR person by accident. By the way an argument for job hunting at a bad time is that you have a higher chance of getting a better job if the pool of applicants is smaller... ------ rdouble August and November 20 through the end of the year are bad times.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Dropbox Attempts To Kill Open Source Project - driverdan http://razorfast.com/2011/04/25/dropbox-attempts-to-kill-open-source-project/ ====== dhouston drew from dropbox here. i hope you guys can give us the benefit of the doubt: when something pops up that encourages people to turn dropbox into the next rapidshare or equivalent (the title on HN was suggesting it could be the successor to torrents), you can imagine how that could ruin the service for everyone -- illegal file sharing has never been permitted and we take great pains to keep it off of dropbox. the internet graveyard is filled with services that didn't take this approach. so, when something like this gets called to our attention, we have to do something about it. note that this isn't even by choice -- if we don't take action, then we look like we are tacitly encouraging it. the point is not to censor or "kill" it (which is obviously impossible and would be idiotic for us to try to do), but we sent kindly worded emails to the author and other people who posted it to take it down for the good of the community so that we don't encourage an army of pirates to flock to dropbox, and they voluntarily did so. there were no legal threats or any other shenanigans to the author or people hosting -- we just want to spend all our time building a great product and not on cat-and-mouse games with people who try to turn dropbox into an illegal file sharing service against our wishes. (for what it's worth, dropship doesn't even work anymore -- we've fixed the deduplication behavior serverside to prevent "injection" of files you don't actually have, for a variety of reasons.) that said, when we disabled public sharing of that file by hash, it auto- generated an email saying we had received a DMCA takedown notice to the OP, which was incorrect and not what we intended to do, so i apologize to dan that this happened. (edited the last paragraph: we didn't send a takedown notice, we sent a note saying that we received a DMCA takedown notice, which was also in error) ~~~ random42 > illegal file sharing has never been permitted and we take great pains to > keep it off of dropbox. Which is great, except you are punishing the crime, before it even occurred. Remember use of torrents are not illegal per se, sharing files which you do not copyright of, and piracy is. > there were no legal threats or any other shenanigans to the author or people > hosting. (EDIT - No applicable. Read Drew's edit.) DMCA takedown notice is a legal threat. Worse part is, its not even valid, IANAL, but do _you_ own the copyright of the data or the copyright owner approached you to issue a DMCA takedown notice? > it auto-generated a DMCA takedown notice to the OP, which as many pointed > out here was invalid and particularly inappropriate in this case, and was > absolutely not what we intended to do. Please do not send legal notices, without lawyers reviewing them? ~~~ SwellJoe > Which is great, except you are punishing the crime, before it even occurred. No, they aren't. They're enforcing the terms of use that Dropbox users agreed to when signing up. I don't think asking folks to take stuff down was the correct solution...I think fixing the bug was the right solution, which they've also done. But, I don't see how Dropbox is "punishing" anyone, when they're just asking people to use the service as it is intended. ~~~ tlrobinson It's clearly a violation of ToS to _use_ Dropship, however, it's less clear whether it's a violation to _store code_ that has the _potential_ to violate the ToS. ~~~ pbhjpbhj Presumably if someone has reverse engineered Dropship¹ then we're not far off having an FOSS Dropbox-a-like to use it with? I'd have thought that is the problem Dropbox is most likely to be addressing? Run your own organisation-wide Dropbox? Yes please. Edit: ¹ I mean of course created Dropship by reverese engineering Dropbox's protocols. ~~~ SwellJoe > Presumably if someone has reverse engineered Dropship¹ then we're not far > off having an FOSS Dropbox-a-like to use it with? That's a pretty big stretch. You believe the client-side code to trigger download of a file that doesn't exist on the system is "not far off from having an FOSS Dropbox-a-like"? That's like finding a hub cap in the woods, and deciding you've almost got all the parts needed to construct a car. I don't believe Dropbox is using any techniques that are secret; I believe anyone with the know-how, and time, and inclination, could use publicly available algorithms to replicate everything Dropbox has done. The "secret sauce" is not the protocol. There are a number of protocols for doing versioned filed storage (WebDAV, for instance) and a number of protocols for transferring only the parts of files which have changed (rsync, for instance). The hard part is in putting them all together, not in any magic to be found in a few lines of code. I highly doubt this is all a conspiracy to prevent people from building a FOSS "Dropbox-a-like". People can already do that, without needing any Dropbox magic. Oddly enough, no one has. I reckon it's because it's really hard to put all those pieces together in a way that works easily for end users. Highly technical users have had these kinds of capabilities for years in the form of version control systems, rsync, etc. Open Source developers have solved the hard algorithmic problems already (and Dropbox is standing on their shoulders). What Dropbox did is make it accessible and usable by anyone. Do people really need any explanation other than, "Somebody made a mistake and sent out the wrong email"? They don't strike me as being particularly evil guys when I've met some of them, and while they aren't bastions of Open Source generosity as far as I know, they also never seemed to be anti-Open Source, to me. ~~~ pbhjpbhj > _The "secret sauce" is not the protocol._ Verily. > _People can already do that, without needing any Dropbox magic. Oddly > enough, no one has. I reckon it's because it's really hard to put all those > pieces together in a way that works easily for end users._ These two sentences are contradictory. The magic clearly doesn't lie in the protocol _per se_ or the specific idea but in the implementation. Having a client that emulates Dropbox _seems_ to be the hard bit strange as that may sound. I have used the web interface, but the client is generally the only point of contact I have if I have a new client that does exactly the same and that client can be switched to a new server my experience will be >99% unchanged and, in my scenario, the effectiveness will be the same. If I can switch service without noticing any change in interaction (dropbox just sits there after all) and in fact can use the same client with either dropbox itself or a different server then it seems like a bad thing for dropbox. ------ tptacek Consider that maybe what's happening here is boring. Recognize that we all have a cognitive bias towards narratives, and especially interesting narratives. The discussion on this story is trying to build a narrative about Dropbox vs. open source developers. The real story is probably not that interesting. The CTO of a service as technically interesting as Dropbox certainly knows that he can't prevent the disclosure of their proprietary protocols. So impassioned arguments about "security through obscurity" and "the futility of trying to hide protocols" aren't adding much to the discussion. Everybody understands those things. To the extent that Dropbox's protocols factor into this story, they are obviously a fig leaf. Thus far, the only thing Dropbox is purported to have done here is to politely ask a developer to remove an application; then, presumably believing that the mirror posts were simple nerd-rage, and that the author of the application agreed with Dropbox, Dropbox's CTO filed takedowns at Github. This is not the end of the world. As has been amply demonstrated, Dropbox can't effectively suppress MIT-licensed code, and probably won't try to. Instead, consider that maybe all Dropbox is trying to do here is establish a track record of "not wanting Dropbox to become Rapidshare". This story then is not a "PR nightmare" for them; it's the expected outcome of their actions. They are trying to communicate both through words and actions that they are going to do what they can to not be Rapidshare. That Dropbox cannot technically keep determined nerds from trying to coerce them into Rapidshare's use case is also not worth arguing about. I think we all know that's true. But how many of us are going to go out of our way to stick a thumb in Dropbox's eye? ~~~ anotherjesse Understandable except the assertion of filing a dmca because he thinks that the reposts of code are "geek rage". The DMCA provides that you may be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys fees) if you falsely claim that an item is infringing your copyrights. Using this powerful law as a scare tactic isn't acceptable. If you wish to claim that the code was infact infringing, then the conversation is different. This seems to be: illegal use of dmca by dropbox * dropbox says dropship using reverse engineered sync protocol broke anti-circumvention techniques or contains their copyright Either of which are bold statments ~~~ tptacek Are we arguing over whether filing DMCA takedowns on innocuous MIT-licensed code was a mistake? I'm sorry if I communicated that I didn't think it was a mistake. But it's my perception right now that _even Dropbox_ thinks this was a mistake; the guy who wrote this blog post posted more mirrors of the code. Is Dropbox trying to get them taken down? People make mistakes. In the grand scheme of mistakes, this is an extremely trivial one. ~~~ knowtheory I don't think that the unjustified and unilateral removal of code from someone else's access or threatening anyone with legal action is _ever_ an acceptable mistake, let alone "trivial". The law is not a toy, and it's not supposed to be wielded casually. The DCMA is certainly not treated with the respect it is supposed to afford citizens, and this is just another example of that. ~~~ tptacek We disagree. The mechanism for getting Github to take down code is the DMCA request; it's what you use when someone at Github is hosting code that they didn't own that you'd like removed and you feel you have some grounds to have removed. It was a mistake for them to use a DMCA request here, because the code was MIT-licensed and thus even the author can no longer ask for it to be taken down. But nobody paid legal fees here, nobody was sued, and the code is back online, so, no, I am not amenable to the idea that Dropbox is being abusive. Continuing to file DMCA requests would be abusive. ~~~ dhouston We didn't file a takedown to github -- the author voluntarily took the code down ~~~ blasdel Someone complained that their fork on Github had been summarily deleted: [http://razorfast.com/2011/04/25/dropbox-attempts-to-kill- ope...](http://razorfast.com/2011/04/25/dropbox-attempts-to-kill-open-source- project/#comment-145) ~~~ phaylon Have you read the replies? No context, but insults. Plus the original forked repo on github is still available. Someone complaining means nothing. ------ arashf This is Arash from Dropbox. We removed the ability to share the project source code because it enables communications with our servers in a manner that is a violation of our Terms of Service. By our TOS, we reserve the right to terminate the account of users in this case. However, we chose to remove access to the file instead of terminating the account of the user. We recently built a tool that allows us to ban links across the sytem (as of a few weeks ago) and I wasn't aware that a DMCA takedown email would be auto- generated and sent. This was a tool built for our support team and I'd never personally used it. That said, we feel strongly that the code is a violation of our TOS and don't believe the removal of the content from our site is censorship. I'd also like to clarify that nobody's accounts were threatened: in every case my phrasing was as follows: 'I hope you can understand our position and can agree to remove the Dropship code'. ~~~ tghw Would you mind highlighting what part of the ToS this sort of thing violates? ~~~ argos yeah, one thing is to _use_ the code on drop box servers... I could understand the ToS violation in that case.... but having the code is a violation? ~~~ RBerenguel This is my point in a comment in the post, before reading the comments here in HN. Burning books because they have forbidden knowledge. ------ CoffeeDregs Most interesting comment to that article: Thankfully all DMCA requests are filed under penalty of perjury. If he claims that he owns the copyright to material he doesn’t own, he has now opened himself up to civil litigation. Really. Seems so: [http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/Internet-Law-and- Intellectual-P...](http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/Internet-Law-and-Intellectual- Property-Articles/Consequences-of-filing-a-false-DMCA-Takedown-Request.shtml) ~~~ rprasad Not an invalid DMCA request, even assuming one was sent out. Copyright applies to original _and derivative_ works, though multiple parties may own copyrights to a derivative work. In America, derivative works include software programs which are inseparably reliant on code or features (including APIs) of another program. It's basically the same argument that WordPress and Drupal make in regard to themes, plugins, etc., falling under the same open source licenses (i.e., copyrights) as the platforms themselves. In this case, dropship is entirely reliant on unique features of Dropbox. This makes it a derivative work, and would mean that Dropbox has copy rights over dropship. The programmer of dropship _also_ has copyrights over dropship to the extent that the code is an original work, but Dropbox's rights trump his b/c they own the rights to the original underlying work. ~~~ dctoedt > _In America, derivative works include software programs which are > inseparably reliant on code or features (including APIs) of another program. > ... In this case, dropship is entirely reliant on unique features of > Dropbox. This makes it a derivative work, and would mean that Dropbox has > copy rights over dropship._ I don't think that's true; if you've got any case authority, I'd certainly like to remedy my ignorance of it. "Derivative work" is defined in the Copyright Act: [1] _"A 'derivative work' is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be_ recast, transformed, or adapted _. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a 'derivative work'."_ [Emphasis added] I don't recall ever having seen any kind of ruling that sending API-compliant messages to another computer via the Internet, for processing by code already running on the other computer, somehow constitutes creating a derivative work of that code. And I don't see how, in any normal case, the owner of the code on the other computer could claim that the API message sender had caused an infringing copy of the code to be made. If I were representing the API message sender, I'd likely argue that the owner of the code -- by (putatively) licensing the computer operator to configure the code to listen for and process API messages -- had consented to whatever copying might have occurred. [1] [http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_0...](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000101 ----000-.html) ------ thecoffman I can see why Dropbox would be upset about the existence of such a thing, but trying to force people to take it down seems incredibly foolish. The whole issue will garner them negative publicity and people will see it anyways thanks to the Streisand effect. I had actually missed the original post, but now thanks to their takedown attempts I've downloaded a copy for myself as its very interesting. ~~~ cabalamat > trying to force people to take it down seems incredibly foolish As does the fake DMCA takedown. If Arash Ferdowsi wants people to think he's dishonest, he's going the right way about it. ~~~ Goronmon There was no DMCA takedown notice. ~~~ bigiain That's not what Dropbox say: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2482803> (admittedly, several hours after you posted) ~~~ ugh There was no takedown notice. Those emails (erroneously) informed the recipient that a third party had sent a takedown request. ------ ramanujan Dan DeFilippi: "In my unhumble opinion censorship is never an option." Dan DeFilippi would certainly not like it if all his documents and code from his personal hard drive were splashed across the internet. What he considers "censorship", another person would call "not pushing someone in front of a train". He knows full well that (a) Dropbox is a pretty friendly company with reasonable people solving a real problem and (b) the RIAA and MPAA are NOT friendly and NOT reasonable. This linkbait title ("kill open source project") is the equivalent of police going after students for bike tickets while avoiding the dangerous parts of town. Dan DeFilippi is going after the good citizen (Dropbox) for the minor philosophical crime of not supporting everything that calls itself "open source", while completely lacking the balls to actually take on the _real_ bad guys here, namely the RIAA and MPAA's _real_ lawsuits. Indeed, even if he did set up his own torrent server, they'd ignore him for a while. Dropbox has financial resources, so they'd actually be the target. So DeFilippi is getting behind them and trying to push them in a fight that is certainly NOT one they want to engage in, without taking any personal risk himself. Not particularly ethical, IMHO. ------ jeremymcanally And now they see the Streisand Effect in action. This was an unfortunate reaction by them that will damage their social capital (a little at least) among one of their core markets. I doubt it'll drive them into bankruptcy, but it's irritating for me to see this sort of behavior. ------ superuser2 However justified you think piracy is, resisting efforts to turn a product you created for legitimate personal file sharing into a better BitTorrent is a valid business decision. That's a really incendiary headline. Yes, they tried to kill an open source product, _whose purpose was to facillitate illegal file sharing over DropBox_. The PR fallout from this among the tech community is probably nowhere near the fallout it would experience if it became the next Kazaa. ~~~ ceejayoz > Yes, they tried to kill an open source product, whose purpose was to > facillitate illegal file sharing over DropBox. Where are you getting that information? My understanding it that its purpose was explicitly to facilitate _legal_ file sharing over DropBox - Linux ISOs, for example. ~~~ sorbus Linux ISOs are always the example people come up with when they're defending protocols and methods which are primarily used for illegal purposes. The original post for DropShip gave, as an example, the trailer for a movie. Not the movie itself, but the trailer. That's the equivalent of saying "I've developed this great way to share files, such as videos, but am not going to explicitly say that it could be used for piracy even though everyone knows that that's the only thing it will be used for." ~~~ calloc The trailer is from the free video that was released by the Blender foundation ... ~~~ sorbus Yeah, I know. I feel that my point still stands, though it is somewhat weakened. ------ dporan The journalist A.J. Liebling said, "Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one." I guess the corollary here is, "If you don't own the server, you don't own the file." Maybe this is why Richard Stallman calls cloud computing "careless computing." ~~~ billswift Something Eric Raymond agrees with him about - <http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=932> Eric also had another post _Three Systemic Problems with Open-Source Hosting Sites_ a few months later (October 2009) - <http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1282> ------ cmatthias Wow, did not expect this from a savvy company like Dropbox. Filing a fake DMCA complaint? I think I'll take my files elsewhere. ~~~ adamhowell Well that makes one of us who can live without Dropbox. Drew would have to kill a baby panda with an elephant tusk for me to even begin thinking about switching. ~~~ amock Do you need Dropbox or just something like it? Dropbox doesn't seem to have very strong network effects so it seems like it would be easy to replace with a similar product. If you're willing to give up features that require hashes to be shared across accounts you could even have a secure replacement with client side encryption. ~~~ runjake Your comment would've been much more helpful had you provided said alternatives. ~~~ mtogo Four seconds on duckduckgo: [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_onlin...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_online_backup_services) ~~~ runjake Thanks for the sarcastic response, but I'm already familiar with that page. What I'm more interested in is what HN users like and dislike and recommend, as opposed to a bunch of features charted into a table with nothing valuable in terms of reliability, usability and actual security. Lately, I've been leaning towards Jungle Disk for file syncing & some S3 solution for cloud backups. ~~~ amock I've used SpiderOak and I was happy with it. I only used it to synchronize files across my laptops and desktops so I don't have any experience with mobile clients for it. I now use cron, rsync, and ZFS snapshots for versioning of all of my home directories. Both solutions worked well for me and which one, if either, is best depends on your situation. ------ Pahalial You know, I really don't understand the rage around this case, or more specifically that it's supposedly all coming from people who otherwise love Dropbox. So let's examine what you're (potentially) doing by forcing this issue and so on: (1) Calling down a streisand effect on Dropbox. Perhaps you believe that code is meant to be free to such an extent that this is part of your goal, so, sure. (2) They clearly have no intention of allowing DropShip to become a common use case. If your Streisand effect results in wide adoption by people who just latch onto your censorship angle, they will have to take rushed action to prevent further spread. (3) This rushed action could be a technical solution (maybe challenge- response, as mentioned) or a banhammer once they have narrowed down the use signature for dropship. \-- (3a-technical) If it's the technical solution, as it was produced under rapid duress, is buggy. Suddenly, your beloved dropbox starts corrupting your files, or refusing to sync some in edge cases. Oops. Some [paying] users who never even heard about this 'censorship' issue notice this issue and take their business elsewhere, and of course it's less useful to you too as a tool until they fix it. (3a-technical alternative) It's not a buggy fix because they're supercoders. Still, their team had to put in an ungodly week to make and stress-test the fix; congratulations on ruining their quality of life for a week while still losing dropship. (3b-banhammer) Well, they figure out how to track people using dropship, and maybe institute a 3 strikes policy (2 emails, 1 ban.) So you stop using dropship after the first email, with a bit of simmering resentment at dropbox; still no dropship. Meanwhile, there are false positives because of course there are; this generates a second, far louder streisand effect, and dropbox again loses some paying customers. - In summary: sure, open-source code is meant to be free. But your actions don't exist in a vacuum. At the end of the day, Dropbox is clearly not going to tolerate dropship on its network. Consider whether you would rather keep using dropbox as it is, or shoehorn yourself into basically open war on dropbox unless you can dropship on it. (Tangentially: it was a neat enough hack, but it still doesn't seem any functionally different than sharing public URLs for the file, with the only differences being that you circumvent the bandwidth limits - again, congrats on fighting the TOS of a service you supposedly love.) ~~~ gordonbowman Well laid out. The worst crime here is taking up the invaluable time of Dropbox developers who could and should be focused elsewhere. ~~~ bigiain Or from a slightly different perspective, "strongly encouraging the developers at Dropbox to focus _now_ on security/privacy issues that ought to have been dealt with before pushing their existing code live". Doesn't seem to deserve the label "worst crime" when described like that. ------ shasta Dropbox has a simple technical recourse to prevent de-duplication from being used for file sharing - issue a random challenge (a slightly more sophisticated version of "ok, what is the 100th word in the file?") before acknowledging a collision as a true duplicate. Edit: Thinking about this a bit more, the primary expense of this scheme would probably be accessing the file to verify the challenge results. Here's a question: is there a cryptographic scheme which would allow responses to some form of challenge to be verified using a relatively small key (32 or 64 bytes would be nice), but for which it isn't feasible to rebuild the key given a few thousand sample challenges? ~~~ kragen AIM used to ask for a cryptographic checksum of a randomly chosen byte range of the AIM executable. The Gaim (now Pidgin) developers had to set up a server that would return checksums on demand. This doesn't meet your requirement of the verifier needing a small key. Given that Dropbox apparently has no qualms about perjuring themselves in order to stop Dropship (or, as discussed in an earlier thread, lying about their security measures in order to defraud their customers), they could probably also take retaliatory action beyond just denying service to the user. Here are some possible retaliatory actions they could take: * they could publish the user's private files, or simply look through them for the user's credit card numbers. * they could sell the above data to the highest bidder. * they could use it to attempt to impersonate the user to their bank in order to empty their bank account. * they could randomly corrupt the user's data. (This might require a backdoor in the client software.) * they could wait for an unusual volume of requests from the user (perhaps indicating that the user was trying to restore from backup) before terminating the user's account without warning. * they could carefully comb through the user's files looking for evidence of any crime (illegal drug use, underage drinking, copyright infringement, possessing seditious literature, importing obscene material, defaming Islam, apostasy, embezzlement, tax evasion, whatever is the biggest no-no in their locale) and anonymously tip off the appropriate authorities. * they could insert faked evidence of such crimes into the user's files, and then tip off the appropriate authorities. Perhaps potential Dropbox users ought to be wary. This is a second data point in the company's history of seriously unethical behavior; one hopes they wouldn't engage in any tactics like the above in a dispute with a former user, if their extremely polite requests failed, but my experience is that people who behave unethically in medium-large ways often behave unethically in larger ways as well. _Caveat utilitor_. ~~~ crocowhile caveat utilitor. ~~~ kragen Thanks, fixed. My acquaintance with Latin is mostly by way of Spanish, where it _is_ utilisador (well, in normal speech, usuario.) ------ duck Tip: If something is on the web and has been linked to via a site like HN, don't ask them to remove it no matter how bad it hurts you. It will _never_ result in a good thing for you and will definitely hurt more afterwards. ------ arkitaip What a PR disaster. There is something really wrong at Dropbox if this kind of dishonest and abusive behavior is coming from a co-founder. ------ phren0logy The author of the software stated very clearly that he was approached by the CTO of Dropbox, who asked civilly that the repo be taken down. This seems an intentional exaggeration of the issue to drive traffic. >wladimir: Arash (the CTO) asked me to, in a really civil way. So I decided to respect his wish and take down the repository. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2478688> ~~~ soult This is not about the Github repository of the original developer. Someone managed to download a tar archive of the repository from github (after the repository was removed from github) and uploaded it to his public dropbox folder. ------ warthurton I spent a few minutes going over the Dropbox Terms of Service. The section I believe that they are referring to when they removed the public link is: General Prohibitions You agree not to do any of the following while using the Site, Content, Files or Services: Post, publish or transmit any text, graphics, or material that: (i) is false or misleading; (ii) is defamatory; (iii) invades another's privacy; (iv) is obscene, pornographic, or offensive; (v) promotes bigotry, racism, hatred or harm against any individual or group; (vi) infringes another's rights, including any intellectual property rights; or (vii) violates, or encourages any conduct that would violate, any applicable law or regulation or would give rise to civil liability; ... Attempt to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software used to provide the Site, Content, Files or Services; (Excerpted in whole for clarity. Full Terms at: <https://www.dropbox.com/terms#terms>) Seemingly not only is posting the code for DropShip a violation, but just by me putting up this file ( <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1498040/2plus2equals5.txt> ) in my public folder, I'm also violating the Terms, as I am publishing text that is false and possibly misleading. ------ SoftwareMaven The DMCA notice came as a result of an automated support system. The CTO's understanding was the system blocked access to individual files, but the real purpose is blocking access as part of DMCA requests, so it automatically sends the DMCA notices out. This wasn't somebody trying to strong-arm somebody else. It was an understandable mistake. ~~~ driverdan I agree with your assessment. It seems that the DMCA notice was a mistake, there was no real takedown issued to Dropbox. ------ apperoid Just in case here are a few other mirrors: <https://github.com/apperoid/dropship> <http://min.us/mvjl61c> <http://www.mediafire.com/?6gplpdpib6zg5dm> [https://rapidshare.com/files/459187624/driverdan- dropship-56...](https://rapidshare.com/files/459187624/driverdan- dropship-56b4296.tar.gz) ------ getsat > and reverted the lockdown on my public files Is this line terrifying to anyone else? Between this and the published security problems, I am steering clear of this service. ------ w1ntermute Here's another mirror, just in case: <http://ompldr.org/vOGY0dg/laanwj- dropship-464e1c4.tar.gz> ------ arethuza What a completely unedifying spectacle: \- Overblown "geek rage" over a non-existent DMCA takedown notice and bizarre "legal" arguments \- A company mishandling a security flaw by asking a developer to remove code that exposes the problem rather than simply fixing the problem and leaving the code in wild to demonstrate that the flaw doesn't exist anymore I use DropBox, although I wouldn't say I depend on it. What this episode did make me appreciate is the degree to which DropBox is a closed product - there may be good commercial reasons for this but as a consumer I'd rather use a service that has at least an open and documented interface (even if the implementations are still proprietary). ------ driverdan I've seen a lot of comments that misunderstand the DMCA. Many people seem fixated on this issue. Had I realized this would be the case I wouldn't have emphasized it as much. It was an automatic email sent by mistake and was retracted by when discovered. It's certainly an issue worth mentioning and discussing but don't fixate on it. Don't get me wrong, I was completely enraged when I received it but I think Dropbox has done well in addressing it. ------ mef Am I the only one who finds it refreshing to see a business trying to protect itself with a friendly email rather than legal threats? Kudos to the Dropbox guys for walking that fine line with such finesse. ~~~ wladimir Yes. I think that's the only thing that's deserved to be said here. People here should just relax, I'm sure there are many companies that deserve your rage but Dropbox is not one of them. They simply asked me to take down the repository while they could work on blocking Dropship technically on the server side. No threats involved. This should be very good PR and many companies can learn from this. Sure, trying to prevent people from writing/distributing programs that use a service in unexpected ways is pointless in the long run. If something is technically possible it _will_ be done. Hence, as some more validation is added, Dropbox will overall be a more secure service. In my opinion it was a feature instead of an exploit :) but hey, it's their service. All the meanness flunged in this thread at either me or Dropbox is completely uncalled for. ------ ugh Understandable. Dropbox doesn't want to become a piracy website. Using a DMCA takedown request was a stupid way of dealing with the issue, though. ~~~ mncolinlee Why does everyone make the assumption that torrents and services like Dropship must be used for piracy? Major video game companies use torrents all the time to distribute patches and betas. A knife can be used to commit murder, but most often it is simply used to cut food. The problem with the way DMCA works is that it bars the development of new technologies because one of many uses _could_ be harmful. The law stifles innovation when used this way. ~~~ rick888 "A knife can be used to commit murder, but most often it is simply used to cut food." Most of the time, a knife is used for cutting food and it can be used for murder. Most of the time, torrents are used for piracy and they can be used for legitimate and legal files. Search for "torrent" on Google. The majority of the results are search engines for pirated material (and in many cases, direct links to the torrents). See the difference? ~~~ TheAmazingIdiot I would tentatively disagree. You are indeed correct that most Torrent Sites are mainly piracy distribution hubs. However, torrent sites are not indicative of torrent traffic by _Clients_. * From what I understand, Blizzard uses torrents to spread patches for World of Warcraft. It is also used, I believe, in Steam as well. * I would also argue that, although copyright violations, transfers of TV shows are already done via the main distributors' websites. Other than where the source is from, I do not see much a difference. I would also argue that piracy itself is a response to market failure. When it's easier to get working media (notably cracked programs and music/movies/shows) via a 3rd party distribution than from the source, there is _something_ wrong. Many times, it is because of "We wont sell to that country until $later", or "Our antipiracy software wont run on your computer", or it just is infeasible to find it. But essays have been done on this topic alone. ~~~ ugh My guess is that Dropbox cares about its image and wants everything piracy related to be kept at arms length. It’s not their business model. They want to be a trustworthy service everyone – from nerds to their moms and dads – wants to use. I would argue that the prevalence of piracy harms, for example, Rapidshare’s image as a serious filesharing service. That’s not an issue for Rapidshare because piracy is their business, but it isn’t the business of Dropbox. This is consequently not so much about the nature of piracy and much more about the image of Dropbox. Whether or not Dropship would actually be a good tool for piracy is very much an open question (and one you can certainly argue about), Dropbox seems to think it is. (I also want to note that even if only one percent of all torrent traffic is piracy related, it’s still wrong to compare it to knives. There are so many knives in the world, the fraction of knives which are used to harm people must be infinitesimal. And, to clarify something else: I would be vigorously against any legislative attempts at banning torrents. Legislatively, that’s just not the right way to go. But that’s the law and Dropbox is no government.) ------ neworbit As much as I'd like to see companies busted for abusing the DMCA to take down things they object to, I would rather it had been one of the traditional Big Media Thugs who was on the wrong end of a lawsuit for fraudulent DMCA claims rather than Dropbox... who I otherwise like. ------ mrud Isn't the so called DMCA take down notice in this example not just a notification for the user that Dropbox received such a take down notice and not a DMCA takedown notice? ~~~ spudlyo Shhh. You're spoiling everyone's fun. How can you expect me to get all worked up about a notice about a non-existent notice? ------ jayp This behavior is unconscionable when there is such an obviously trivial technical solution to this problem. Here is my quick and dirty technical solution. (1) Place a restriction: only allow users who have uploaded a given file to download that file. In essence, keep an "uploaded" flag for each file/user. (2) Challenge-response to validate local copy of a globally-known file: To continue receiving the benefits of de-dup, don't actually upload an already globally-known file, but perform a challenge-response with the client on the contents of the actual file. This will still leverage most of the benefits of de-dup w.r.t bandwidth savings. ~~~ marshray I gues they're already at a point in their business where they feel like it's easier for them to try to silence their fanbase-hackers-modders-addon developers instead of just quietly fixing the issue. At least Twitter had the sense to phase-in client auth for apps before shutting down 3rd party developers. ------ cnicolaou The title of the post +HN post should be changed after the author updated his entry and clarified Dropbox' position. ------ plasma Dropbox can decide what its servers/resources are used for, and allowing 'Dropship' to be used to transfer copyrighted files sounds like a problem they don't want - and neither would I, as a company owner. Legitimate users are not impacted at all from this recent change; people who were wanting to share copyrighted files to the masses are impacted but they aren't customers Dropbox would want in the first place. I think its disingenuous to say Dropbox shouldn't have tried to stop the project from being used; if I ran Dropbox and something came up that threatened my company and its customers I would try and stop it being used in an instant. The people Dropbox contacted voluntarily took down the project, so they must have agreed with Dropbox's logic in some form that yes perhaps the project would better off not be available. I'm not sure I like the title, "... attempts to kill open source project" as if to say open source is some how an endangered species and Dropbox is some horrible elephant killer? :) I suppose its disappointing to me when I read some comments that are immediately on the attack when it may not be warranted or fair, or put up arguments like 'torrents can be used to distribute linux ISOs' (not a real quote!) when everyone knows thats not what Dropship would be used for at all. ------ JCB_K _Second, dealing with piracy is the responsibility of Dropbox. It’s not the problem of an innocent hacker who wrote some useful code that could benefit legitimate users and advocates the use of his software for “sharing photos, videos, public datasets, git-like source control, or even as building block for wiki-like distributed databases."_ Could someone give me 1 example of a use case here? The only reason I can think of to share the hash of a file instead of a direct link, is because it's an illegal file, and you don't want to link straight to it. Why else would you go through the effort of hashing all 4mb blocks of the file, and sharing those elsewhere? Of course, this is a dangerous gray legal area, but I think it's fair to say that the only reason to use this is because of illegal files. Also, they didn't take legal action (which wouldn't be right, as no one has been proven of doing illegal stuff), they just asked nicely, so it seems. Dropbox is right to act on this, as it could potentially ruin their platform. ~~~ JCB_K Could someone elaborate on why I was downvoted here? ~~~ St-Clock I don't know because I thought your comment was insightful. But since this is one of the worst threads I have read since I joined HN, in terms of FUD and signal-to-noise ratio, it is not impossible that someone who misunderstood the situation downvoted you. The fact that comments like "Man you guys are dumb." (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2482925>) wasn't voted down is indicative of the health of this thread. ------ staunch Is there anything Dropbox can do to prevent this de-dupe hack? ~~~ judofyr Sure: When the client has created a hashsum of the file and sent it to the server, the server can respond with a challenge: "What's the SHA1 of the bytes between X and Y" (where X and Y are random numbers). This is something both parts can easily compute and the client _must_ have the whole file in order to answer the challenge. ------ p09p09p09 OTOH, wouldn't it be neat if a distributed Tahoe-LAFS supported dropship-like functionality as a feature? ------ mborromeo If you spend so much time, passion and money building a product like Dropbox you will try to defend it from every kind of threat: today the "piracy" topic is a hot one, sounds like its worse than killing someone, and Dropbox is hit by this "piracy" threat. I fully understand and respect Dropbox founders positions, and the DMCA issue is clearly a bug in my opinion (i wouldn't automatically send those kind of communications upon a system-forced file deletion, however). ------ rryan Anyone saying that Dropship has legal uses is wrong -- you're stealing from Dropbox by using it whether you're sharing your academic, public-domain dataset or your pirated movie. Dropship sidesteps the TOS of Dropbox by letting users get unlimited sharing bandwidth. Dropbox itself has a share feature which uses the exact technical mechanism by which Dropship works, except it also puts rate limits and caps on sharing. OT: This is probably the worst comments thread I've ever read on HN. It's like an echo-chamber telephone game. Jeez. ------ sha90 Forked so that I can hopefully get one of those cool friendly emails! ------ shad0wfax Strike 2, dropbox ~~~ wewyor What was strike 1? I can understand them not wanting the files to be public, but as tptacek said this is probably fluffed up quite a bit. As far as I'm concerned the only issue with how they handled it is the DMCA takedown request, and if the CTO acted as said but that is less of a factor. If the files were never removed from the persons dropbox and only public urls disabled I'm okay with that. However if the files were removed I would probably count that as all three strikes and jump ship. ~~~ kragen Strike 1 was when they got caught lying about whether their employees could decrypt your files or not. ~~~ wewyor I suppose so, I always took that statement to be that employees didn't have easy access to your files (such as without decrypting from the servers). It should have been obvious to anyone else remotely familiar with security that dropbox had/has access to your files from the simple fact that you could reset your password, as well as the web interface. ~~~ shad0wfax wewyar, like kragen & iamjustlooking pointed out I considered that whole episode as strike1. I agree I am being extremely critical and have to agree in spirit that this is their real goof up. Poor security is not a reason to abandon the ship if they show an intent to fix it ASAP. What I felt a bit let down by this whole take down thing was, their initial approach was to surpress the hackers rather than fix their problem. I see in another post they seem to addressed it the loophole (?), which is the way to go. Embrace ppl tinkering this way but make your platform robust. ------ forkrulassail Just lost all my respect for them. ------ leon_ Way to alienate customers, Dropbox. I gonna cancel our teams account and refrain from using dropbox alltogether. ------ donpark Forget about DMCA and other excuses. Dropship-like hacks could have huge negative impact on Dropbox business model. I can't fault them for taking actions to protect their business. ------ Dubois It's a shame that Dropbox has resorted to attacking its users and threatening them with loss of data. Looks like it's time to clone Dropbox and offer some respectable service to users. ~~~ injekt I can't see that they've done any of this. They've been pretty polite about the whole thing. At least that's what the article says. The fact they mention that their terms give them the right to deny users access to their service at any time doesn't mean they're threatening. It's just a reminder. They're said the DMCA was a mistake and they hold their hands up to that. Aside from that, I can't see how they've done anything wrong. OK so asking the author to remove it from 3rd party sites is a bit cheeky, but that's all they did.. ask. I would have asked too, the author didn't have to. He clearly didn't want any trouble. Imo Dropbox should have just fixed then, and sat there and laughed when people tried to use Dropship and it not work. It would have saved 'Dropbox attempts to kill open source project' and may have even caused for 'Dropbox fixes file hashing issue x days after open source project built to exploit it'. That way, both win. But that's just my 2 cents	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
O'Reilly Maker – create your own O'Reilly animal covers - davidlago http://zoomq.qiniudn.com/ZQScrapBook/ZqSKM/data/20100810114541/ ====== late2part This seems to point a wacky domain '[http://oreillymaker.com/'](http://oreillymaker.com/') that should work but doesn't :( Looks neat but doesn't work. ~~~ bsg75 "NOTICE: This domain name expired on 7/21/2015 and is pending renewal or deletion." ------ rossdavidh ...aaaaaand it's down, hugged to death by Hacker News probably. ------ tyurok That really looks fun, please make it work. ------ daodedickinson This looks fun; unfortunately I can't get it to work. Is too much traffic slowing it down? The arrows don't work and when I change the image number to 2 or 7 and click publish, I get a blank page...	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Turning minor-key songs major - renaudg http://theweek.com/articles/467109/sad-songs-made-happy-amazing-art-turning-minorkey-songs-major ====== adrianh Shameless plug for my own minor version of the Beatles' "Blackbird" — my own guitar playing mashed up with the original Paul McCartney vocal (which I extracted from the Beatles recording by abusing the stereo spectrum). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAb9V08zcBE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAb9V08zcBE) ~~~ ageitgey For those who don't know, Adrian is both an excellent jazz/acoustic guitarist AND the co-creator of Django :-) ~~~ _mhr_ Ah, that would explain the inspiration for the name. ------ Nition A classic of this sort is this Star Wars major/minor swap: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ppoRHBtwCY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ppoRHBtwCY) No editor magic, just some really good live Electone playing. ~~~ microcolonel It's like hearing the other side of the music. The majorized version of the Imperial March sounds the way the empire must think of themselves to justify their actions. ~~~ rangibaby You'll like the soundtrack to Tie Fighter. It has plenty of heroic imperial music (and a Star Wars theme that would have been perfect for Rogue One!) ~~~ WorldMaker There are some interesting musical nerd breakdowns of the music that did make it into Rogue One on YouTube. Giacchino only had a couple weeks to put that soundtrack together, and did a remarkable job given the huge time crunch. Because Giacchino is himself a music nerd, there are some interesting major/minor swaps in it from well known Star Wars leitmotifs. ------ renaudg It may be worth clarifying that these are _not_ covers (which would be musically interesting, but not technically impressive like what we have here) It's likely that most of these versions are not even reconstructed from the original multi-tracks : it's possible to get this result with nothing more than the original song audio + editing in Melodyne. This is of course related to yesterday's story about Auto-Tune ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15483145](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15483145)), of which Melodyne is a more capable competitor these days. ~~~ _mhr_ Are there papers anywhere on how Melodyne works? ~~~ _mhr_ I found the Melodyne patents (translated from German into English): [https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininvent...](https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininventor:"Peter+Neubäcker") ------ dizzystar I'm so conflicted on these at times. I mainly dislike the original title: "Sad songs made happy." There is nothing that says a major key _must_ be "happy" and there is nothing that says a minor key _must_ be "sad." It's also interesting to note that google claims that Losing My Religion is in the key of C Major: [https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=key%20of%20losin...](https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=key%20of%20losing%20my%20religion) The chords are, according to Wikipedia, Em, Am, D, G. ~~~ emerged Ionian is not the only Major mode, and aeolian is not the only minor mode. For the former you also have Lydian and Mixolydian. For the latter there are Dorian, Phrygian and the rarely used Locrian. ~~~ meggar Mixo is usually considered dominant instead of major. There's also Lydian #6 for those times when Lydian just isn't major enough. ------ fmihaila How about no key? [https://youtu.be/4niz8TfY794?t=278](https://youtu.be/4niz8TfY794?t=278) ------ peterburkimsher Can someone recommend a good tutorial for key shifts in Melodyne? I wish I could learn how to do this for other songs. I'm also interested in chord progressions. I wish I could tag my iTunes library with the Roman numerals for each song. But I don't know of any automatic way to do that. Read the SuspiciouslySimilarSongs list, or watch the 4 chord song by Axis of Awesome to know what I'm talking about. The pop-punk chord progression is famous, but there are other songs that sound similar. (e.g. Hall & Oates - Maneater, and Stevie Wonder - Part Time Lover, or Linkin Park - New Divide and The Offspring - Gone Away). ~~~ fenomas You might want to check out HookTheory - [https://www.hooktheory.com/trends](https://www.hooktheory.com/trends) It's a big database of songs and their progressions, with a lot of other stuff (a snazzy composing app, a set of music theory ebooks which I've not read, etc). ~~~ peterburkimsher Thanks! It's good, and is correctly showing some similar songs. HookTheory doesn't use Roman Numeral analysis though. I like that language, because it's easy to compare songs that are modulated to different keys. For example, Forget December - Something Corporate (D F C1 G) and New Divide - Linkin Park (Em G D A) are both ii-IV-I-V. [http://vjmanzo.com/clicheprogressions/index.php?title=Catego...](http://vjmanzo.com/clicheprogressions/index.php?title=Category:ii_IV_I_V) HookTheory says that Fm Ab Eb Bb in the key of Eb is also like Closing Time - Semisonic. But vjmanzo's site correctly notes that it's shifted over 2 places: Closing Time is I-V-ii-IV instead of ii-IV-I-V. I've figured out how to get the real notes out of an MP3 using Melodyne, which is how I found the notes for Forget December. But I had to search online for the key, and then look up the Roman Numerals in a table. I wish I could just throw in an MP3 and get a Roman Numeral chord progression out of the other side. ~~~ fenomas Hey, sorry for the late reply. HookTheory _most definitely_ uses Roman Numeral notation. In the link I posted, change the "Key" pulldown to "Rel", and then you can choose each numeral in sequence. Or, for example, to see all the songs HookTheory thinks use ii-IV-I-V, the link would be: [https://www.hooktheory.com/trends#node=2.4.1.5&key=rel](https://www.hooktheory.com/trends#node=2.4.1.5&key=rel) > HookTheory says that Fm Ab Eb Bb in the key of Eb is also like Closing Time > - Semisonic. But vjmanzo's site correctly notes that it's shifted over 2 > places: Closing Time is I-V-ii-IV instead of ii-IV-I-V. I don't know what you're referring to here, but it sounds like HookTheory was just suggesting similarities. HT's actual entry for the song you're referring to is here, and has the same progression you mentioned. [https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/semisonic/closing-...](https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/semisonic/closing- time) How this relates to your link I have no idea, it shows 404 for me. ------ jasonmp85 These pieces make me viscerally angry. It's grating like Neil Cicierega but without the glee in doing it. Jeeeez. ------ tmm I guess I'm not very good with music. These all sound basically the same as the originals to me. ~~~ crispinb You'd probably hear the differences played side-by-side. There are few truly 'tone-deaf' people. Music is much like anything else -- capabilities (including memory for a song's tonality & chords) are increased by interest, exposure to a wider range, close study, etc. ~~~ MycroftJones The one that really did make a dramatic difference is notable because it didn't have the human voice involved. I'm talking about the Star Wars theme. In that one, the difference between major and minor was dramatic. But for vocal music, the emotional cues seem to override the major/minor distinction. ~~~ crispinb To me all of them sounded dramatically different. Then again I'm a musician of sorts. I'm sure there are all sorts of variables, including what sort of music(s) a person typically listens to. ------ modosc my favorite is the happy version of "careless whisper": [https://soundcloud.com/majorvsminor/careless-whisper- george](https://soundcloud.com/majorvsminor/careless-whisper-george) ------ mathgenius It's a pretty standard classical music trick to switch from minor key to major (or vice-versa), just for variation purposes, and repeat the theme in the major key. So this is what this sounds like to me, like Beethoven got a hold of REM. ------ code_duck I have done this manually on guitar for years, playing around. I would play major key 'Bad' somewhat differently than that. ------ ereyes01 When you change early 80s thrash metal from minor key to major key, you get something that's pretty close to punk rock. Metallica's Kill 'Em All in major key is a fun listen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98v54fPYxU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98v54fPYxU) ------ ddinh One other interesting example: Mahler's first symphony, third movement ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5A5tFyXQio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5A5tFyXQio)) which incorporates a minor-ized version of the classic (major) Frere Jacques tune as a motif. ------ dharma1 Giant Steps in C. Jazz musos will appreciate [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYzYpb1MY0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYzYpb1MY0) ------ kansface The Nirvana sounds so utterly bizarre to me - I suppose because I don't hear the original as tonal to begin with. ------ moomin There’s no love song finer but how strange the change from major to minor every time we say goodbye. ------ gpvos This is so 2013.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Office Parties Feel the Chill - jseliger https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/style/office-parties.html ====== cluoma Maybe it's just my inner-millenial but I really dislike office Christmas parties. This year my company rented out a large theatre with a buffet of goose and free beer/cocktails/wine all evening. It started at 6pm and most of the attendees were gone by 10pm, and we are a young company with many in their 20s. I feel like it was really a party for a few outgoing people and those in HR. A Christmas bonus would have been a much nicer way to say 'thank you' for the previous years work. ~~~ fredley Absolutely this. At a place I worked previously, due to a tight budget, instead of doing the sensible thing and not having a party (or letting teams organise their own smaller bashes), the company cheaped out and rented a basement somewhere into which we barely all fitted. It was cramped, noisy and expensive. One employee got drunk and had a fist fight with the restaurant management after knocking down the sliding wall between us and the next room of 'revellers'. It was totally grim, but all in the name of being the kind of company that has Christmas parties. I handed in my notice the next day iirc. ~~~ pc86 It seems odd that you would forget whether or not this event precipitated you quitting a job. ~~~ sitkack He was the one that knocked down the partition. ------ gubby This article seems to be sponsored by Escape the Room, whatever that is, with its own ad-style paragraph. "A less philanthropic but still debauchery-free experience can be had at Escape the Room, an interactive game site where as many as 10 people are shut in a room and have one hour to solve a puzzle..." Could be an example of the pay-per-mention market (there was an article about this last week on HN) ~~~ lancebeet Escape rooms have become quite common and they're provided by many different actors. Given how many there are on Manhattan alone it's difficult to pinpoint exactly which one they mean. If this is advertisement, it's not money well spent. ~~~ TeMPOraL What is the business structure, though? Are all "escape rooms" independent operations, or are they more of a franchise? I was curious about the "Escape Room" phrase itself - it sounds like a brand, but I did an USPTO search for a trademark, and surprisingly, there's like a metric ton of ones matching ".* ESCAPE ROOM .*". ~~~ piva00 Completely independent rooms AFAIK. Have seen them in Brazil and here in Sweden, it's just a type of game, not a franchise... Much like a "haunted house" is a type of attraction and not a trademarked franchise-based business. ------ dep_b I think in general going out just isn't as much fun anymore as it used to be. You're constantly monitored from all sides by people with mobile tracking devices and any misstep will be broadcasted to billions through YouTube because people think it's fun to show your drunk ass claiming you're the Queen of England to everybody. Preferably with your name and LinkedIn profile in it. Of course that scares the shit and fun out of people. I don't think any records exist of my (innocent) missteps thank god, but I do feel the pressure if I'm at an event like that since smartphones became more common. I see people filming other people dancing while commenting negatively about it. Really intimidating. Better make sure we don't stand out in the crowd, unless you're the minority of people that really craves other people's attention in any way. ------ gadders >>Executives surmised (perhaps wisely) the party’s meager attendance wasn’t enough to justify the $300,000 price tag. So, two years ago, HBO offered its employees an afternoon off with their co-workers to volunteer at a charity instead. That's some reward. ~~~ toomanybeersies Deloitte (or at least part of Deloitte) have a charity day. I don't think it replaces their Christmas party though. Anyway, according to one of my colleagues who used to work there, everyone really liked it, it was a way to get help out the community, with the added bonus that you're still getting paid. The cynic in me assumes that they just do it because it's bloody good PR. ~~~ gadders Most Investment Banks give a couple of days a year, some give a day a quarter (in the UK at least). This is also unrelated to Xmas Parties though. ------ ElCapitanMarkla I feel like the odd one out in these comments... I like the christmas party, but then again I love free beers :) ------ bertil I actually like Christmas party (it helps I was working for great companies and with colleagues I actually like and I don’t go out as much as I’d like). I didn’t stay very long this year because I had other things to do, but one thing that surprised me was to hear one of my male colleague objectifying his direct reports (female and married). I have had until then the odd chance of only noticing offensive comments from female colleagues (rarely and I’ll admit, not the most representative). After the month we’ve had dropping our heroes, that felt… uniquely heedless? and just plain wrong. Anyway: this is an advertorial but it felt timely. ~~~ Sholmesy Did you call him up on it? You don't have to be aggressive/self-righteous about it to let someone know what they are saying is not ok. ~~~ jnbiche He/she mentioned offensive behavior from both male and female colleagues. Why not call out both? ~~~ Sholmesy You're right I should have. The reason I mentioned the Male one, was the recency in the story, and probably a little bias on the topic. My bad :(. ------ sqldba I guess after a year of slaving and treating coworkers like garbage they don’t want to bond especially over non alcoholic drinks. ------ d--b This reminds me that 10 years ago, Marc Jacobs came to his $1m arabian-nights- themed christmas party dressed up as a giant camel toe. Different times indeed. ------ magicalhippo My company has 13 employees, and was just 8 for a long time. So they adopted the policy of inviting partners/significant others as well. It really changes the tone of the Christmas party, in a good way. And it's a nice gesture for the partners/significant others, making it easier for them to tolerate the occasional late nights. A really great idea IMO, though it's probably hard to scale up. ------ jraut Office parties are a great form of getting to know each other for employees in multi site companies. It is a way of keeping in touch. Also, knowing the faces behind the names in Slack gives you some common grounds for verbal communication. For me office parties are almost an vital part of cooperation. ------ simula67 We may need segregation based on gender at the work place ~~~ falcolas Totally. Probably by race too, to avoid those potential uncomfortable conversatioms and inadvertently racist remarks. Parties should be safe spaces. /s ------ downvote_me Paywalled ~~~ bertil It appears to be an advertorial, so you are not missing much. ------ tptacek Oh no.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
One fundamental difference between ElasticSearch and Solr - alexdong http://alexdong.com/one-fundamental-difference-between-elasticsearch-and-solr/ ====== mumrah This seems to be comparing ElasticSearch to Solr 3.x which is disingenuous. Solr 4.0 has been released for months now and includes many new features around distributed search and indexing. Just to point out a few corrections: * Solr does have a transaction log. When using soft commits, the tx log is used to recover any volatile writes in the event of a crash * Solr replicates in a similar manner to ES. It no longer does full-index replication as indicated by the article. A write comes in and is routed to the shard leader and replicas. * Solr too has "High Availability built-in" with automatic failover of shards One fundamental difference the article does not address is the robustness of Solr's cluster management. Solr uses ZooKeeper under the hood which implements the Paxos algorithm to avoid issues like "split-brain syndrome". ElasticSearch has implemented its own distributed coordination and is susceptible to such issues. ~~~ Xylakant > ElasticSearch has implemented its own distributed coordination and is > susceptible to such issues. Only if configured wrong: setting discovery.zen.minimum_master_nodes to N/2 + 1 where N is the number of master nodes in the cluster prevents split-brain. Nodes that don't see enough master nodes will go into a catatonic state and won't accept writes, effectively preventing a split-brain syndrome. ~~~ teraflop That's only sufficient if your network is perfectly reliable. Otherwise, you can still get split-brain in situations like this: <https://github.com/elasticsearch/elasticsearch/issues/2488> This particular bug is probably fixable, but reaching consensus on a set of master nodes in the general case, without race conditions, is quite hard. ------ fnl Alex provides summary about the main difference of ES vs. Solr, ie., the distributed, dynamic indexes vs. fast static index search speeds. Here is an somewhat older article highlighting this difference in numbers (search time) and explaining why percolation matters (and what it is) for ES (and not so much for Solr), although from about two years ago: [http://blog.socialcast.com/realtime-search-solr-vs- elasticse...](http://blog.socialcast.com/realtime-search-solr-vs- elasticsearch/) It should probably be pointed out that this comparison is slightly unfair as of Solr 4, however, and needs to be re-compared against a SolrCloud... But given SC relies on ZooKeeper, this is not nearly as easy a setup as EC. ~~~ LiveTheDream Alex mentions that blog post in his second sentence, and suggests that it was a poor comparison because of bad configuration for both Solr (calling commit too often) and for ElasticSearch (using 5 shard index setting). Granted, the point of this comparison was to be against the default settings for each.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Flickverse – Netflix for YouTube movies - kcthota https://www.flickverse.com ====== joojia only indian movies? ~~~ kcthota Since the content is curated, I had to only target Indian movies for now. :(	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Peter Principle: Why Most Managers Suck - remi http://olivier.thereaux.net/2010/06/30/why-managers-suck/ ====== Mathnerd314 The Peter Principle has been superseded by the Gervais principle: [http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais- principle-o...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or- the-office-according-to-the-office/)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Warner Brothers reports own site as illegal - ilghiro http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37275603 ====== jameskilton I don't see the problem here. If they so desperately want the content removed, then Google should happily kill all of those links right away! ~~~ joekrie Complying and taking down the legitimate links should force WB to properly review their requests. This case is kind of funny, but something similar started happening when banks started automating foreclosures. People who were up to date on their mortgages were getting evicted from exactly the same kind of negligence WB is exhibiting here. ~~~ sonthonax How does one get evicted due to a computer error? Wouldn't a rather simple court case be able to determine that X amount was being paid to be bank every month? ~~~ joekrie Banks were signing off on the erroneous foreclosures without properly reviewing them. And, if Matt Taibbi is to believed, the courts weren't of much help to the victims of fraudulent forclosures. [http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi- courts...](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts- helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110) ------ coldcode If I were Google I would ban the whole domain, clearly a lot of piracy here! That way they might be more careful in the future. ------ quickben Just goes to show that no thought enters their flagging. ~~~ chris_wot They were taken down for copyright, not gross public indecency! ------ chris_wot I hope that Google complied with the law and demanded to have legal proof that they weren't violating the DMCA before they reindexed the material. Then it would be nice to sue them to kingdom come. ------ jnmandal They should probably add a whitelist to their bot ~~~ sleepychu > _The request was submitted on behalf of Warner Brothers by Vobile, a company > that files hundreds of thousands of takedown requests every month._	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Later school start times are associated with more sleep and better performance - simonebrunozzi https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200 ====== tartoran As a kid I remember waking up at 7 and heading to class which was starting at 8. I was half awake up until about 10 in the morning, I don't know how I was making it to school in one piece (school was within walking distance and was about 15 minutes from home). Also, in the winter at 7 it was still dark and cold I still remember the a magnetic force I had to fight away from the warm cozy bed. That was me at the time. A group of kids didn't seem to have this problem at all, so this early sleepiness phenomena is not universal. Throughout my life I was also a night owl, my most productive and creative moments took place after dark. Recently, however, something changed. I feel much more comfortable in the morning, I even enjoy the quiet hours early in the morning until things start to hustle and bustle and enjoy and am able to go to sleep earlier. So to conclude, this is not a universal thing and this is the problem, we are all different so a one sized solution does both good and bad. ~~~ pgt How has your diet changed over the years? I'd be curious to know if different foods and eating schedules might affect circadian rhythm. ~~~ tartoran My partner is a vegetarian and a good cook so we don't serve meat at home. Consequentially I eat less meat now; I eat less meat also because the meat quality isn't very good unless you go to a very good restaurant and that is not 100% guaranteed either. I've got a friend who ran a restaurant business and was shocked to learn the price of the chicken was suspiciously low. After doing some digging I realized what most meat we eat, how it is produced, what animals are fed and all the antibiotics they're fed are quite bad for us. I frankly lost my appetite for meat. I started eating more fish instead, not a very good decision either but nonetheless better imho. I still eat meat but not too often, not sure if I'll ever become a fulltime vegetarian. Second, I stopped drinking alcohol excessively and completely stopped eating sugary drinks or sugary things in general. Rarely whenever I eat something sugary, because I'm no longer used to it, it makes me very nauseous. ~~~ crooked-v > and all the antibiotics they're fed To nitpick on this one, the societal problem isn't the antibiotics, per se... it's that antibiotics get used to paper over an incredibly unhealthy and unclean environment, and that in doing they so encourage the rise of 'superbug' antibiotic-resistant diseases. ~~~ tartoran But also the mass over consumption of meat isn't very normal either, plenty of countries are vegetarian, take for example parts of India for generations; to me at least, the current practices in our modern meat factories kill my appetite. I do still consume some animal products but always try to get those from farmers, and for one it's noticeably tasting better. ------ germinalphrase I teach at the high school level. Everyone knows this is true and some districts in my area are changing to a later start time; however, there is a great deal of institutional momentum working against the change. Primarily due to primary school start times, bussing schedules, and athletics. ~~~ datashow > Primarily due to primary school start times, bussing schedules, and > athletics. Not only that. Starting late also creates a problem for parents. Parents need to go to work. If kids take bus, kids usually need to board on the school bus before parents leave home. If parents drive kids to school, then the late school start time will become totally unacceptable for many parents because of the conflict with their work start time. ~~~ commandlinefan Yeah, it’s a nice thought, but completely unworkable. I live 0.99 miles (seriously!) from my kids’ school. The minimum bus distance in 1 mile - so they won’t send buses to pick up my kids. That means that they have to walk 0.99 miles, sometimes in the rain, sometimes in the cold, across three fairly busy intersections, or I have to drive them. My commute is about an hour long (longer because I’m driving at the worst possible time), so I’m getting into work later than everybody else as it is. ~~~ DiffEq Is there a reason they can not walk to school? It doesn't really take long to walk a mile and it is very good for them mentally to get a walk in before and after school anyway. There may be times when inclement weather might make it a little miserable but proper clothes can address that in all but the most extreme cases. I grew up in MT and had to walk about a mile to my elementary school and almost a mile to my High School bus stop. I enjoyed those walks and the time to think it afforded. ~~~ LaLaLand122 In my country there is no really the concept of the "school bus". Google Maps says I walked exactly 1.0 miles... climbing a mountain, because my school was in the freaking top of a mountain. In some parts climbs were so steep that nowadays there are escalators on the streets. I did that from 4 to 18 yo. It did never bother me, sometimes I literally did the whole way back running non-stop for fun, it was kind of like a roller coaster. But: \- Weather was generally good \- I obviously didn't walk alone when I was 4 yo. We don't even know the age of those kids. Maybe they will walk to school alone... when they are older. ~~~ bullfightonmars How many 30-40 mph roads/intersections were between your house and school? Unfortunately this is the kind of thing that prevents many kids from walking to school in the US, even in cities, there are often few safe walking routes, incomplete sidewalks, poorly designed intersections across wide, fast moving roads. ~~~ dragonsky67 Sounds like you have bigger problems than school starting times. I'd be working on the local municipaility to get the facilities in place. Being able to walk anywhere you need to go should be one of those human rights. It's basic to our physology. ------ rconti This could have made my formative years immeasurably better. I woke up between 5:30-6am every school day between grades 6-12. I had an incredibly hard time focusing on and starting my homework, and was often up past midnight. It was a vicious cycle of not sleeping and depression and anxiety. Typical school hours are insane for the kids who need sleep the most. Even being chronically underslept, I'd still easily stay up until 1 or 2am on weekends which I'm "too old for" (read: my circadian rhythms have changed as I reached adulthood). As a kid, I was frequently sleeping till 11am or noon on weekend days to try to make up for it. It's just not healthy -- any of it. ~~~ thewebcount Yeah, same here. I remember getting home from high school around 2:00 (even earlier if I didn't have a class for the 6th hour). I would just collapse on the couch and sleep for an hour. Then, of course, I'd have trouble falling asleep at night, leading to it being hard to get up. Lather, rinse, repeat. ------ blakesterz Reminds me of when Boston tried to make some changes to start times for a number of reasons: What happened when Boston Public Schools tried for equity with an algorithm [https://apps.bostonglobe.com/ideas/graphics/2018/09/equity-m...](https://apps.bostonglobe.com/ideas/graphics/2018/09/equity- machine/) "But no one anticipated the crush of opposition that followed. Angry parents signed an online petition and filled the school committee chamber, turning the plan into one of the biggest crises of Mayor Marty Walsh’s tenure. The city summarily dropped it. The failure would eventually play a role in the superintendent’s resignation." ~~~ Chathamization The Boston plan was to move a lot of younger students to earlier start times. People seem to just shrug this part off for some reason. People talk about the benefit of later start times for teenagers, but the negative impact that earlier start times would have on younger students gets ignored. ~~~ karatestomp The younger kids _should_ be going earlier, at least around here. They start after 9:00! They've had two of their most alert hours of the day already by then. This is so the older kids can start earlier. There are only so many buses. Adjust one to start later and the other starts earlier, and vice-versa. The high schools should have the 9:00 start and the elementaries should get their 7:40 start or whatever it is, assuming the whole window can't be adjusted. Nb. I've had it explained to my by people in education that early starts in high school are insisted upon by the sports folks, so they can have longer afternoon practices with sunlight in the Winter, and that there's no hope of switching start times up on a large scale without attacking that constituency and winning, which is... probably not gonna happen. ~~~ Chathamization The Boston plan was to start elementary school kids at 7:15, which is why parents were complaining about forcing young kids out of bed at 5:30-6:00 am. Not an unreasonable criticism, I think (there were also complaints from working families that they'd have to pay more for after school childcare). But you're right that part of the problem was that there was no interest in spending more on transportation (or in generally improving the poor state of transportation). I'd say it's also worth questioning why we insist that all students need to go to school at the same time. The education system seems needlessly rigid (though I suppose imposing a certain amount of conformity is one of its goals). ~~~ karatestomp Oof, OK, yeah, _no one_ should have to be somewhere at 7:15AM. 7:30's pushing it. ------ RcouF1uZ4gsC Interesting study, but there are some potential issues. One is that it is small, about 100 students. The other is that the demographics of the students at the second school shift between the 2 years. This may confound the study due to cultural differences. For example, in my limited experience, it seems that white parents are more strict about bedtime than Asian parents, and if that is the case, more sleep may simply be a result that the second group had parents who pushed stricter bedtimes. From: [https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/suppl/2018/...](https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/suppl/2018/12/10/4.12.eaau6200.DC1/aau6200_SM.pdf) School RHS FHS Year 2016 2017 2016 2017 Students 51 41 41 41 % Female 53 49* 56 58 % White 76 75 2 19 % Asian 10 5 54 46 % Hispanic 6 5 7 7 % African American 8 5 32 22 % Unknown/other 0 10 10 10 Age (mean ±SEM) 16.08 ± 0.05 16.27 ± 0.08 16.13 ± 0.05 16.13 ± 0.06 I would take these results with a grain of salt. ~~~ boomboomsubban >The other is that the demographics of the students at the second school shift between the 2 years Not really. The first class had 21 Asian students, the second had 20. The small sample limits the use of this study, but it's not the only one out there. ------ socalnate1 I've posted this before, but it's relevant again: My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake during those first two periods. (This was in the 90's) ~~~ thebiss Same schedule still exists here, and we're on the East Coast. ------ petercooper I think it applies to adults just as much, except most adults "get used to it". So at my company we've always started the day at 10am and everyone cites it as one of the things they like the most about working here (we then end at 5.30pm – which also works out well as all the 5pm rush traffic has cleared up by then). ------ finaliteration My kid starts elementary school at 9am with one late start day a week. We’re able to spend more time with her in the evening because we don’t feel rushed to get her to bed so she gets enough sleep. I also find she doesn’t seem totally exhausted when she gets up in the morning. That being said, my spouse and I are very fortunate in that we have flexible jobs with part-time remote work ability. I can’t imagine how a single parent working two jobs would deal with the schedule change and late start day. ------ kjakm Reading this thread it appears high school in the US starts a lot earlier than in the UK. Even the article states: "We show that a delay in the high school start times from 7:50 to 8:45 a.m. had several measurable benefits for students". In my experience at least, high school in the UK doesn't start earlier than 9am and usually starts at 9:30am. End of day is about 3:30/4:00pm. What's the reasoning for starting to early in the US? ~~~ netcraft I'm not sure if its universal, but in my district the biggest reason - or at least the most often stated challenge to changing the times for high school - is that we have limited buses that service the high school first, then middle and then elementary. ~~~ joezydeco My district uses that excuse, and the logical answer is to swap elementary and high school start times. In my district the HS start is 7:20, middle at 8:05, elementary at 9:00. Any parent will tell you 9:00 is a crazy late time of the morning for a kindergartener. ~~~ jessaustin I would wonder whether anyone who willingly created such a backwards schedule could be fit to run a school, except I've met the people who run the public schools in this country... ~~~ germinalphrase Advocate. Public institutions are strong when locals are engaged in their success. ------ paulcarroty My head just can't operate on max level at morning for years. "go to bed earlier" isn't helpful here, working at nights too. Tried several times to change my owl-type nature, but without any viable success. The fix is easy: pretend to be productive, and be a rock star at the end of day. ------ jimbob45 I vehemently disagree with this. The problem is that there are only 24 hours in the day. That's just not enough time to go to school, sleep 9.25 hours (recommended for teens, as I've been told), and still participate in sports, do homework, and (god forbid) play video games. This would only move the problem later, not solve it. Even worse, parents would have to move around their own work schedules to get kids to school on time. The real problem, in my opinion, is the massive unchecked amounts of homework that get piled on students every year. Each teacher thinks that their amount of homework is reasonable but it only takes one bad teacher to cripple a kid's schedule. Writing a 5-6 page paper in middle school never taught anyone anything, but it did take away time that could have been used constructively. ~~~ James_Henry What is the "this" that you don't agree with? The theorized causality? It's not a question of whether the kids in the Seattle study slept more or not. They did sleep more. The question is why, and I think most people agree that it is clearly because of the later school start time. ------ 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 I got pretty mediocre grades in middle school. I always stayed up way too late on my computer. However I noticed looking back there was one exceptional quarter: when my first class was PE. I think running a mile at the start of every day did something to my brain. I advocate PE as the first class for all students. ------ BitwiseFool And yet, school start times won't change. ~~~ roguecoder It's a matter of incomplete metrics. What impact do later school start times have on parents? How about parents' workplaces, especially for shift work? Regulatory capture means convenience for businesses is likely to trump children's health and performance. ~~~ ixwt I feel it's also a bit about perspective. Is school for learning, or is it a state sponsored day care with a guise of learning? Especially in the early years. ~~~ germinalphrase We ask schools to be all things for all people, so it is, of course, both and neither. ------ brightball When I was in college, the best semester I had was one in which my first classes every day were at 2pm. I’m pretty sure that’s the best I’ve felt in my entire life. ------ James_Henry I would like to point out that this is part of the reason that daylight savings time (not just the clock changes associated with daylight savings time) is so dangerous. This is one thing that a state could do today to implement a change for the better: outlaw daylight savings time, giving teenagers and children (not to mention adults) another hour to sleep for much of the year. ~~~ umvi Would they use it to sleep? Or would they squander it on an extra hour of entertainment? ~~~ James_Henry Research suggests that people use it to sleep. It's even been found that people on the eastern edge of a time zone sleep more than on the western edge because the sun goes down "sooner" for them. ------ deepsun A big problem here in US is kids logistics -- parents spend way too much time getting their kids somewhere and back. In Eastern Europe I remember parents just told me to not forget about pool after school, so I get on the bus and went 6 stops to the pool after school myself. That only worked since age of 8 for me, of course, before that logistics was probably a problem for my parents as well. ------ Nasrudith Ah the joys of societal chauvinism, where your opinion is a priori wrong because of what you are regardless of evidence or any massive benefits they could possibly get. And the kicker is if you ever point out that you are maltreated they will deny it while maltreating you for daring to point out their casual cruelty. ------ im3w1l I'm curious if it the benefit comes from starting late compared to your environment or starting late in an absolute sense. The whole of China has just one timezone, so it could be a good place to look at. ------ swiley I was homeschooled so I missed out on a lot of public school stuff, but talking to adults my age and younger I’m continually shocked and horrified about what we’re putting kids through; it’s unacceptable. ------ BlameKaneda I used to wake up around 6:30-40 for a 7:55 start time. I didn't officially "wake up" until after 9:30 or so. The high school juniors had statewide exams every year so the rest of the high schoolers got to go in after 9/9:30. I woke up much more well-rested and oddly enough, I felt happier. I really wished that a later start time was the norm. I doubt it'll be, since one of the reasons why schools start early is due to parents' schedules, but who knows. ~~~ hinkley Said more times than I care to count: "My brain is not fully on until 10:00 am. Do you want me writing 1 hour of code in that state, or 2 hours of code?" (A couple jobs, showing up regularly at 9:45 was tolerated, if not exactly appreciated. Those were glorious times.) ------ epicgiga They don't care though. School was never about learning, but discipline. Through that lens, the fact its uncomfortable without purpose is by design. ------ brlewis A high school educator once told me that the impetus for the early schedule was businesses who wanted teens to be able to work for them in the afternoon. ------ zacharycohn My high school started at 7:17am and I would have given _anything_ for a 9am, or even an 8am, start time. ~~~ simonebrunozzi 7:17am? Really? Not 7:15am, not 7:30am? ~~~ pirocks Not op but my middle school had a lot of odd schedule times to avoid students memorizing when a class ended. It didn't really work. Some teachers couldn't figure out when classes ended though. ~~~ dntbnmpls > Not op but my middle school had a lot of odd schedule times to avoid > students memorizing when a class ended. But wouldn't that also mean a lot of students didn't know when classes started? I've never heard of school starting at 7:17. It was always a round number like 7 am or quarter intervals ( 7:15, 7:30, 7:45 ). I don't think I've ever had anything like that for work meetings or interviews. If someone scheduled a meeting for 7:37, he'd get laughed at. ~~~ mattkrause You (hopefully!) don't have six or seven 45 minute back-to-back meetings, with a few minutes of designated "passing time" to travel between them. With those constraints, it's hard to develop a schedule that sticks to round numbers. This is especially true if you want to minimize downtime: your officemates can be trusted to productively--or at least quietly--occupy a few minutes of downtime, but many schools don't seem to think kids can. My high school, for example, ended at 2:18pm (I can still picture the clock), but I think this was a consequence of starting at 7:30am. ~~~ dntbnmpls > My high school, for example, ended at 2:18pm (I can still picture the > clock), but I think this was a consequence of starting at 7:30am. That's interesting. If your classes are 45 mins or an hour long and you get 5, 10 or 15 minutes to get to your next class, how do you end up with 2:18pm? Also, even if it was 2:18pm, I'd imagine most schools would just round that up to 2:20pm or let you leave a few minutes earlier at 2:15pm. I don't ever recall any of my classes ending in a none-round number ( time that didn't end with a 0 or a 5 ). I don't recall any school letting me out at a none-round number. As a matter of fact, I don't recall any stores, government offices or tv shows that didn't open or start at a "round number". And every meeting I've had ( even multiple meetings in a day ) always was at a "round number". I can't imagine saying lets start the meeting at 2:17pm. Most of the time we'd bump it to 2:30pm. And if we were constrained for time to 2:20pm. ~~~ mattkrause I can't remember how long we got between classes (it was /many/ years ago), but it was far, far less than fifteen minutes, and maybe not even five. You had to hustle between distant classes. Just for kicks, I searched for "high school bell schedule" and about half seem to run on round numbers and half seem to be totally bizarre. For example: \- Starts at 7:45 but heads off the rails quickly: [https://lchs.lpsd.ca/about/bell-schedule](https://lchs.lpsd.ca/about/bell- schedule) \- 5/15/50 minute blocks: [http://beaconsfield.lbpsb.qc.ca/Parents/Bell- Schedule](http://beaconsfield.lbpsb.qc.ca/Parents/Bell-Schedule) ------ luord As someone who attended high school during the afternoon, I am not shocked. Having to attend six am classes in college is the sole reason I didn't graduate cum laude. I had the gpa for it, but I had to repeat a subject just because it was that early and I'd rather miss the classes. ------ lbrdn Why We Sleep is a good book on this topic and addresses many of the comments and concerns in this thread. ~~~ James_Henry It's an entertaining book, and I like some of the things that it is trying to do, but it has some issues that it really shouldn't have. [https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/](https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/) ~~~ simonebrunozzi "Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" Is Riddled with Scientific and Factual Errors" Thanks for posting this (upvoted you). I was just about to order that book, but I usually research critiques of the book before buying it. I found yours here just because I'm the original poster (OP) and was reading through comments. I am not going to buy the book, at least for now. Thanks again. Edit: There's also a HN thread about the blog post that you shared [0]. [0]: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21546850](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21546850) ------ onesmallcoin When I was a teenager we had some natural disaster and the highschools had to share sites, the way they did it was we did school 12-6. We would eat dinner togeather after school I think we enjoyed it despite not being the norm ------ mensetmanusman It’s an interesting thought experiment, what is harder for society? -Going to bed earlier? -Rescheduling everything to be later? As we know from many parts of Latin America and other equatorial countries, the eventual result is dinner at 9 or 10 pm. I have no idea what is better... ------ dqpb There are so many ways in which school is not optimized for learning. ------ cryptozeus I have always had noon school..so the timings were from 10-5 pm. Many of my friends had morning school from 7-3 pm. I do not see any difference in sleep or performance due to this. ------ ch And yet work start times won't adjust. ------ bilbyx How about just get kids to go to bed earlier? ~~~ lukifer There's evidence that some people are biologically pre-disposed towards waking up late, aka "owls" [0]. During adolescence, the tendency for delayed sleep phase rises to 7-16% [1], though it drops down to 1 in 600 for adults. While never formally diagnosed with DSPD, I've struggled with chronotype/sleep issues my whole life, and it made public education a nightmare. I'm often still in a high-energy mental state at 2am (possibly heritable, my mother is the same way). Putting my head on the pillow is a futile gesture; I'll get tired faster if I get up and do something. I've found mitigation strategies (limiting blue light is the biggest), but it doesn't change that my energy starts low in the morning and steadily accumulates, while "larks" are the exact opposite. I've only managed to function in my career due to much of the tech industry being highly flexible on scheduling; probably 30-40% of my output happens after 10pm, on average. [0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronotype](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronotype) [1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder) ------ bryanrasmussen I suppose later school start times would also be associated with problematically late work start times, as such the school start times must be structured to give the optimal work start time under capitalism - and probably under most systems that require lots of people to work at specific times of the day. ~~~ bryanrasmussen I guess I'm in a bad mood today (splitting headache 5th day in a row), but why did the above get downvoted? It isn't apparent and I was wrong to claim it was? I'm wrong that later work times would be problematic for most employers? Is it the use of the word capitalism (I didn't capitalize it? It's a noun so I shouldn't) which is a reasonable description of the system that most of the Western world runs under, and really most of the world. Is it that I then went on to qualify my use of capitalism by saying lots of systems would also work the same way, is it that my qualification was sort of imprecise? What possible reason, under the Hacker News guidelines would cause the above comment to be downvoted? ------ pneill I never buy these stories. Why is it that an 18 year old high school student has trouble getting up and off to school by 7:30/ 8:00 am, but an 18 year old marine has no problems getting up at 4:30 am? ~~~ lukifer Self-selection? I imagine those are biologically wired for a late-night chronotype either don't join the Marines, or wash out relatively quickly. ~~~ umvi Or maybe the more structured environment of the military enforces early bedtimes vs. lax family life where parents zone out on smartphones while their kids are left to their own devices (pun intended) to enforce their own bedtimes. ~~~ pneill Correct. It’s all discipline. When the school has late start, do the kids go to bed at the same time and get more rest? Nope. They stay up later. ~~~ perl4ever You sign up voluntarily for the military in my lifetime. No so much for school. People tend to submit more readily when they aren't being compelled to do something. Even if they don't end up liking it, there's a tendency to act in accordance with a choice you made. ------ hpoe This is well known, but it also has impact on lots of other interconnected issues. Such as parents work schedules, that effect stability, that effect students learning as well. It will also impact school budgets, which then influences what kind of supplies and teachers a school gets, which also has a big impact on learning, and on and on and on. Not saying we shouldn't do it, I just feel like sometimes we see an idea that would help things and then jump to, obviously there is no reason not to do it, it must be evil <insert bogyman here government, corporations, lazy teachers unions, Illuminati, leprechauns>. We must remember we live in an incredibly complex system and pushing for changes in just one part will have ramifications that must be considered downstream. ~~~ James_Henry Are you arguing that the ramifications for society of correcting for this issue are net negative? I would guess the opposite and think that we are going to see ever more schools pushing back start times in the next several decades. We are already seeing some acting. ------ acidtoyman Oh, Jesus Christ—so let's force kids into another Procrustes Bed, eh? Let a different tail wag the dog? There are those of us who naturally wake up early (I'm one, and I know plenty of others), and there are those of use who naturally sleep until noon. Obviously, later start times would be awesome for late sleepers. They would also suck hard for those of us who have already been up for hours before school even starts. A German friend of mine told me her school started at 07:00 every day and finished at noon. She said she preferred it that way, and so would I have. What's wrong with having staggered start times for high schools? Some students could choose to start at 07:00, others as late as the afternoon. We'd fit more classes into the same school buildings, making potentially more efficient use of public resources. ~~~ cbsks > They would also suck hard for those of us who have already been up for hours > before school even starts. Why? If you are up early, you can use the morning to do whatever you want to. ~~~ acidtoyman You're not a morning person, are you? I sure wouldn't have been getting a part-time job or been out playing with my friends at 06:00 in the morning, so, no, I couldn't "use the morning to do whatever [I] want to". Especially if "what I want to do" is get my classes done and out of the way. ~~~ cbsks I am not a morning person, but my 2 year old is :). We have a few hours free every morning before she has to be at preschool. We read books, go for bike rides, go to the park, make large breakfasts, etc. There’s lots to do in the morning. The only disadvantages are that it is sometimes cold, and nobody else is up yet. ~~~ acidtoyman "The only disadvantages" you say, when I've already given you a few. There are fewer options in the mornings—and one of those fewer options is "getting classes over with" (to bring this back on topic), with people suggesting pushing classes back even later. ------ jxy This is ridiculous. What has anything of these to do with time? If you live at the east coast of the US, just set your time to GMT, and you can enjoy waking up at noon. We need a culture of encouraging school student to go to sleep early and wake up early, and not overtaxing their health by staying up late and wasting time. ~~~ crooked-v Teenagers are biologically driven to stay up late and wake up late, as shown in studies of sleep schedules in laboratory conditions: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/) > Adolescents continue to show a delayed circadian (or internal clock) phase > as indicated by daily endocrine rhythms even after several weeks of > regulated schedules that allow for sufficient sleep. This delay is > maintained under controlled laboratory conditions in which there is limited > possibility for social influence. ~~~ acidtoyman Plenty of adolescents are not "biologically driven to stay up late and wake up late". I woke up at 05:00 or so nearly every morning when I was a teenager—per my internal clock—and I'm not alone.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Run iOS apps in the browser - rogerfernandezg http://app.io ====== mmahemoff I'm not hearing anything, I guess audio isn't emulated yet? This would be great with web audio. Having a podcast app, I can't unfortunately get much use from it in the absence. Anyway, congrats. I hope Apple's okay with it because the concept is crazy- awesome for users and developers. ~~~ chrisnolet Thanks! Audio is on our wish-list. We'll count this as another 'vote' for that feature. Apple is aware of what we're out to achieve here. ~~~ Cryptex Are they okay with it? Apple has always seemed like the type of company that wouldn't want to dilute the "Apple Experience". I'm quite impressed they're aware of it and haven't asked you to shut it down. Kudos. ~~~ SimHacker Apple hasn't had much of an experience for developers recently... ------ phoboslab Wondering how the streaming works. It seems to send a bunch of GIF images which hold the diff from the last frame when something is moving. The framerate is quite low at the moment, but that's probably because of HN?! Edit: it also sends full JPEGs of the screen when there's much going on. I believe my JSMPEG[1] would really be a viable alternative for this use-case. Streaming support is in the works :) [1] [https://github.com/phoboslab/jsmpeg](https://github.com/phoboslab/jsmpeg) ~~~ chrisnolet Hi there, COO here. I wrote a good response on this when we were branded as Kickfolio: [http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio- work...](http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio-work-in- simulating-iOS-apps). You're quite right - we stream diff'd GIFs and JPEGs at different times. We did originally try encoding with FFMPEG and other technologies, but surprisingly this works best! We're constantly improving the algorithm. I'm just about to push up another change this weekend :) ~~~ phoboslab While your implementation seems to be quite ingenious, the answer on Quora doesn't explain anything besides "sending frames" and "magic happens". I would have liked to see a more in-depth explanation, but I understand if you don't want to share it at this point. ~~~ chrisnolet ;) Quite right - we have two patent applications in the works! So unfortunately I can't provide a whole lot more detail at this point. Feel free to email me though if you're interested to chat offline. Great job with JSMPEG by the way. ------ btipling I was able to open app.io and run the demo inside the demo on app.io when it asked me to tweet (which got to me to Safari). It actually ran really nicely. ~~~ emdowling Internally, we call doing that Appception :) ~~~ coherentpony We need to tweet deeper! ~~~ coherentpony Wow, I didn't expect this to upset so many people. Just trying to inject some light-hearted humour. ~~~ btipling Reddit style humor is discouraged on hacker news. Comments that aren't thoughtful are also discouraged. I even think meta comments like this are discouraged. ~~~ coherentpony Reddit-style humour? It was in reference to a film. I'm honestly flabbergasted. Oh HN, how you never fail to disappoint. ~~~ CamperBob2 The problem on Reddit isn't really the existence of lighthearted comments, but the fact that they inevitably get moderated to the top of the thread, obscuring more insightful comments. That's what they're trying to prevent here, I think. I wouldn't take it personally. ------ gozmike We've been a customer of these guys for months now. They power the preview functionality of our app builder. I have to say that they're a bunch of awesome folks who are responsive to feedback and really work hard to make their service matter. Keep it up guys! ~~~ X4 @gozmike I just want to know ONE thing. How did you get to know about this company?? I could've searched down the rabbit hole without ever hearing about it. Mind sharing sources? ~~~ gozmike Pieceable let us down. Somehow when looking for an alternative I stumbled upon app.io when it was called Kickfolio. ------ ch0wn This runs amazingly smooth, especially considering the traffic it is going to get from HN at the moment. Kudos! [http://www.appsurfer.com/](http://www.appsurfer.com/) does the same for Android, but it feels definitely more sluggish than this. ~~~ daveytea Thanks! Our technical ninjas are working their magic behind the scenes! ~~~ djt Nice one davey! ------ Janteh That should be their headline, I didn't get what they are doing the first time I saw the page earlier today. ~~~ hiby007 you should also check out [http://www.appsurfer.com/](http://www.appsurfer.com/) for running android apps. ~~~ nandhp Amazon also has one in their app store. It runs on EC2. For example, (picking a random paid app) [http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VUCAVO](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VUCAVO) ~~~ samweinberg That's really impressive and works well. Hopefully iOS will eventually have a way to try out apps before purchasing. ------ so898 Just try this on my Android phone, it shows the desktop web page... If it gives the webpage that suits for Android phones, I think this would be more useful. ~~~ diesellaws Hi, Designer/Co-founder here. Ed (our CEO) is currently working on a branch called feature/mobile-optimizations...so expect big things in the coming weeks. :) ~~~ so898 Cool! ------ RandallBrown Very cool. Have you seen Pieceable Viewer? It's very similar, but I believe it used an implementation of UIKit in flash to simulate the apps. They were bought out by Facebook, but the website is still live. [http://pieceable.com](http://pieceable.com) ~~~ daveytea Yep we love Pieceable and know some of the guys. They've done well! ------ stevenringo Does this violate Apple's developer terms in any way, as you are running these in the simulator? ~~~ daveytea Not that we are aware of. We've shown some people in Apple and they've loved it so far! ------ sentinel Great work! It was super easy to set up a project and it just worked. It _just_ worked, I love it when I can say that. A couple of feedback points: \- If the simulator could be more responsive, it would be great \- Seems like even though you are simulating an iPhone 5, it doesn't use Retina images (I'm on a MacBook Pro Retina and the images look pixelated) \- I think being able to set up a password should be available on the free plan as well Also, for cost: \- Are you thinking of also implementing a (cheaper) "freelance" payment plan? Someone that can have up to 5 apps, but only needs a maximum of 5,000 views/month. I think the $109/month is a bit too much for a freelance developer ~~~ chrisdevereux Agreed. Something in the $30-$50 region with a lower usage allowance and the ability for more (private) apps than the free allowance would be much more palatable to me as a freelancer. ~~~ annnnd $30-$50? Huh, how about $1 per usage? ~~~ chrisdevereux That would be better for me (in the short-term), but supporting a large number of low-value customers is probably not going to be sustainable for them. ~~~ daveytea Thanks for the suggestions! This is a hot topic internally, so we'll have some more announcements in the coming months. Keep an eye on the blog/twitter. We haven't forgotten about the indie devs! :) ------ ssafejava Is this at all related to the Android-streaming software on [http://www.appsurfer.com/](http://www.appsurfer.com/), or is just a similar idea on a different platform? ~~~ chrisnolet Hi, COO here. It's a similar idea. We've chosen to focus on iOS first, then branch out in to many other platforms, even beyond mobile eventually. ------ terhechte I just tried it, and it is currently rather slow, but I suppose that is the HN effect. I signed up for a free account nevertheless, because as luck would have it, I'm working for a project right now, where this might come in handy. However, I couldn't find any documentation on that, but do you also support iPad apps? I can see that that would be a tad more difficult due to the higher streaming data bandwith. Nevertheless, great app, I like the idea. ~~~ emdowling CEO here. Thanks so much for the feedback. Yep, we are currently being slammed. Glad to have you on board. We do support iPad - checkout [http://docs.app.io](http://docs.app.io) for a few options and ways you can use the service. ~~~ terhechte Ah, thanks, I found it under the API -> device page. You should put that on the front page somewhere, that it runs on iPhone & iPad. I may be a bit slow but since the demo was iPhone and since it is streaming, I supposed iPad was out of the loop. ~~~ diesellaws Hi, Designer/Co-founder here. That's great feedback, thank you. I will rework the design to include iPad and make it more obvious we support both. :) ------ fotcorn Can you tell us how this works? A ton of Mac Minis Streaming iOS simulator output to a HTML5 canvas using vnc or something like that? ~~~ emdowling It does run on Mac Mini servers. We don't use VNC, but rather our own approach to make it work. We used to be called Kickfolio, and this Quora thread has a nice response from one of our other co-founders, Chris. [http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio- work...](http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio-work-in- simulating-iOS-apps) ~~~ flog I was about to ask the question "Why didn't you use the video element" \- answered well within the link (if anyone has the same question) ------ chrisrickard I used this the other day and it was significantly speedier.. i'm guessing it's the HN effect. Cool concept. ~~~ diesellaws Thanks Chris, appreciate the support. [Co-founder] ------ jpincheira Sorry guys, nice flat design and everything, but I'm on fiber and on a brand new MacBook Retina 15", and it is _sloooow_. Good idea, but slow like this, not acceptable. ~~~ tonylemesmer Its a shame that it is so slow, especially when its pretty amazing to be able to do this in a browser. Perhaps whilst the HN storm is taking place a less intensive demo could be implemented. ~~~ X4 Dude have some respect, the just got HN'ed, it's okay. Check them again some hours or a day later. I guess they will add more bandwith when they have more customers to pay it. ------ bsaul Do you plan on integrating with cloud storage / sourcecode providers ? Something like a github instant preview, either directly on the project's home page, or in the source browser. Or, an HTML widget to enable developers / companies to embed previews of their work directly on their blog / homepages. I can see a pretty bright future for your company, congrats. ~~~ chrisnolet The good folk at Jenkins actually created a plugin for the CI platform which we love: [https://wiki.jenkins- ci.org/display/JENKINS/App.io+Plugin](https://wiki.jenkins- ci.org/display/JENKINS/App.io+Plugin). We have an API so if anybody is keen to integrate with GitHub we'd gladly welcome it! Embedding into blogs and on homepages is possible today via a simple iFrame and is one of our core use cases. Thanks for your feedback and positive outlook on App.io's future. ------ elisee FYI emdowling ([https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=emdowling](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=emdowling)) from app.io is replying to comments here with useful info but his account seems to have been hellbanned. You can turn showdead on in your HN profile page to read what he wrote. ------ TheMakeA We've been a customer for a few months now and use it to power the runtime for our App-Development-In-The-Cloud[1] startup. Very cool, and Chris et al are very nice and helpful guys! [1] [http://www.cloupp.com](http://www.cloupp.com) ~~~ chrisnolet Thanks mate! Appreciate the kind works and your hard work in building something great for developers, too! ------ millerm This seems really cool. Unfortunately my app crashes and I can't see any logs to know why. I have some ideas as to why, but I won't know unless I can get to the log. I posted a message to the support link but no response. Logs would be good. ------ dcaunt Very cool - I notice it works well on iOS Safari too. Any plans for a native app or mobile optimised interface? For some apps, being able to touch is going to make the demo experience much better, and hopefully convert more users to paid installs. ~~~ chrisnolet Hi, COO here. Thanks for your feedback. Coincidentally, we have a mobile- optimized version being finished off shortly! We agree that a native app would be great. More on that in the coming months. ------ natasham25 Would love to use this on my blog all the time, but the price point is way out of range. I've tried it though, and it's incredible if you can afford it. ~~~ daveytea Hey Natasham25, there's also a free plan that you can sign up for. You'll be able to embed it on your blog (for free) as long as the app plays stay under the limit. ------ markshepard Very cool! This actually can be very useful for our company to demo apps. I guess audio is not there yet, but still very nice and great URL as well. ------ sticksen I´m currently loading up my app and it takes forever to finish. Would be good if I could see one sample app and how exactly the whole thing works. ~~~ chrisnolet Hi there. It shouldn't take too long to process. I suggest clicking 'Support' from the dashboard and we'll investigate further. It may be an .IPA instead of an .APP (we require the simulator build), or we may need to reprocess your app manually. Sorry for any inconvenience. ~~~ sticksen Thanks Chris, I just sent you a message via the support interface. Cheers! ------ robert-boehnke Are they running one Mac OS X instance per Simulator or is there a way to run multiple Simulators at once that I don't know of? ~~~ emdowling CEO here. We are running on Mac OS X and you can run multiple simulators by using multiple user accounts. This is a part of our approach but not all of it :) ------ nej I can't tell what the difference between the Pro and Business package is other than the price. Can you clarify? Cool idea btw. ~~~ diesellaws Hi, Co-founder here. The Pro plan allows you up to 5 apps and 20,000 app plays per month. The Business plan allows you up to 20 apps and 100,000 app plays per month. More info can be found here: [https://app.io/#pricing](https://app.io/#pricing) ~~~ nej I missed it since the first thing I did after seeing the demo was click Sign Up. ------ dharma1 This works surprisingly well, great job. How many instances of iOS emulator can you run per machine? Do you run your own servers? ------ mcobrien @emdowling - your comments aren't showing up here - maybe because your account is new? The service looks awesome btw! ------ stevewillows Really great work! This will also be great for us android users to see what all the hype about certain apps is all about. ------ voltagex_ OK, the tech behind this could be the first serious competitor to Teamviewer in a while. This is cool! ------ spyder HN killed it? "Could not launch the application" ~~~ daveytea Ahh the HN effect. Looking into it now. Thanks for the heads up! ------ X4 WOWSOME!! How did he make it? How is that even possible? ~~~ chrisnolet Haha, thanks mate. Just hard work and iteration! ------ batgaijin what is this, virtualization for ants? ------ jezfromfuture no idea the point of this but seems at first pointless ~~~ diesellaws Hi, Co-founder here. Thanks for the honesty. We have found that people are drawn to our service for one or two big reasons. The first is the ability to quickly share a test build of an app amongst the team for feedback and iteration. No downloads, no installs - just a URL. The second is the ability to market your app to your clients or fans via your website or through Facebook, to get instant engagement (vs a banner/screenshot) to drive downloads. We've found it to be highly effective and the average app play is about 1:30. Hope that helps! ------ thomasfl Demo? ~~~ diesellaws Hi, co-founder/designer here. The iPhone on our home page is actually a live demo of Prismadrop (using App.io). Appreciate the feedback - I will work to make it clearer in the future so everyone is aware it's a live demo. ~~~ thomasfl I thought it was simply an animation. It would help if the frontpage told you what was going on. If iOS apps can run in a browser absolutely any application for ant platform could run from within a browser window. ------ homakov ok it's nice but why? ~~~ daveytea I wish i could embed pictures... but: [http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/289/9/1/why_not__by_r...](http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/289/9/1/why_not__by_rober_raik-d4czhw0.png) ~~~ mst At this moment, I rather wish you could as well - but I really don't wish that everybody could. Some of the meme heavy github issues threads I've seen have led me to the conclusion that it would just make me cry.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Front-End Development Explained for Non-Developers - kpennell http://developintelligence.com/blog/2015/09/02/front-end-development-explained-for-non-developers/ ====== superkeating I found the article to be high-level without sacrificing the language needed to describe it. It's a good balance. ------ dwrmurphy Excellent article ------ ICANTEVEN !!! ------ jaybeez agree with so much of this	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Has Google bricked your chromium app because they did hours - purebrowser As of Nov 21st our Chromium app called Pure Browser has not worked anymore. When you load a site it just stays a white screen. We have not made any changes to our app but it seems Google has done something outside our control on our Chromium app. Anyone else have this issue? Any ideas?<p>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.purebrowser&hl=en_US ====== n-gauge [https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-android- droppin...](https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-android-dropping- support-android-4-1-4-3-jelly-bean/) The current minimum API level for Chrome is Android 4.1. According to a recent commit, it will soon be bumped up to Android 4.4. KitKat. Your app is 4.1, Maybe bump that up to 4.4? ~~~ purebrowser Thanks for this advice! ------ z3t4 You might want to pivot into a browser _extension_ , instead of a full fledged browser. ~~~ purebrowser I don't think you can make browser extensions for mobile browsers right?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: I just wrote an O(N) diffing algorithm – what am I missing? - keithwhor Hey folks,<p>I've been building a rendering engine for a code editor the past couple of days. Rendering huge chunks of highlighted syntax can get laggy. It's not worth switching to React at this stage, so I wanted to just write a quick diff algorithm that would selectively update only changed lines.<p>I found this article: https://blog.jcoglan.com/2017/02/12/the-myers-diff-algorithm-part-1/<p>With a link to this paper, the initial Git diff implementation: http://www.xmailserver.org/diff2.pdf<p>I couldn't find the PDF to start with, but read "edit graph" and immediately thought — why don't I just use a hashtable to store lines from LEFT_TEXT and references to where they are, then iterate over RIGHT_TEXT and return matches one by one, also making sure that I keep track of the last match to prevent jumbling?<p>The algorithm I produced is only a few lines and seems accurate. It's O(N) time complexity, whereas the paper above gives a best case of O(ND) where D is minimum edit distance.<p><pre><code> function lineDiff (left, right) { left = left.split('\n'); right = right.split('\n'); let lookup = {}; // Store line numbers from LEFT in a lookup table left.forEach(function (line, i) { lookup[line] = lookup[line] \|\| []; lookup[line].push(i); }); // Last line we matched var minLine = -1; return right.map(function (line) { lookup[line] = lookup[line] \|\| []; var lineNumber = -1; if (lookup[line].length) { lineNumber = lookup[line].shift(); // Make sure we're looking ahead if (lineNumber > minLine) { minLine = lineNumber; } else { lineNumber = -1 } } return { value: line, from: lineNumber }; }); } </code></pre> RunKit link: https://runkit.com/keithwhor/line-diff<p>What am I missing? I can't find other references to doing diffing like this. Everything just links back to that one paper. ====== ridiculous_fish Diffing means computing the longest common subsequence (LCS); the edit script is everything that's not part of the LCS. The proposed algorithm greedily finds a matching element. However it may be that it would be better to skip this element, and not incorporate it into your sequence. Consider the following sequences (here each letter represents a line). AAAB BAAA Where the first one is "left" and the second one is "right". The LCS is AAA. The minimal edit script from left to right is: 1\. Insert B at beginning. 2\. Delete B at end. The proposed O(N) algorithm finds B as the first matching line, and thereby exhaust `left`. So it finds the common subsequence of just "B" and its edit script is: 1\. Delete 3 As at beginning 2\. Insert 3 As at end which is longer. ~~~ leshow Is it subsequence or substring? Don't you want to find the longest common substring, i.e. contiguous block? I always understood subsequence to be non- contiguous. ~~~ ruds It's subseqence. For instance, in ABXCDYEFGZ QARBCSTDEFG You want to find [Q]A[R]B(X)C[ST]D(Y)EFG(Z) ABCDEFG is the longest common subsequence, QRST are the additions and XYZ are the deletions. ------ robertelder I spent a bit of time learning the Myers Diff algorithm, (I made this page: [https://blog.robertelder.org/diff- algorithm/](https://blog.robertelder.org/diff-algorithm/)) Like someone else said, I think the key is that you're not getting the shortest edit script, you're just getting _a_ edit script. Interestingly, even git's implementation of diff (which uses a variant of the Myers Diff algorithm) doesn't actually find the shortest edit script by default. It has a hard-coded heuristic that just quits early if it finds a 'good enough' solution: [https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/xdiff/xdiffi.c#L143](https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/xdiff/xdiffi.c#L143) Same this for unix diff (unless you specify the commandline flag to find shortest): [https://github.com/Distrotech/diffutils/blob/distrotech- diff...](https://github.com/Distrotech/diffutils/blob/distrotech- diffutils/lib/diffseq.h#L255) Having said that, if you're still confident that you've made an improvement, you can port the function to python and try it out as a test case in my unit test file that I wrote when I developed my variant of the Myers Diff algorithm: [https://github.com/RobertElderSoftware/roberteldersoftwaredi...](https://github.com/RobertElderSoftware/roberteldersoftwarediff/blob/master/myers_diff_and_variations.py) On that topic, I'm pretty sure my variant of the Myers Diff algorithm is actually slightly faster/uses less memory than the original (I'd be happy to be proved wrong). At least, I've had my blog post up for a few years and no one has corrected me, but then again, I think the original paper has a few mistakes/obvious flaws and it still has hundreds of citations and no one has written much about improvements. ~~~ ridiculous_fish Nice work on your visualization! Thank you for rebutting the Fraser article; I came to the same conclusion as you (that Myers algorithm is in fact correct) but had never written it up. I wrote a vectorized Myers implementation for diffing binary files. Perhaps the most interesting aspect is the progress bar: it's not obvious how to create a monotonic progress estimate for Myers diff. [https://github.com/ridiculousfish/HexFiend/blob/master/frame...](https://github.com/ridiculousfish/HexFiend/blob/master/framework/sources/HFByteArrayEditScript.m) ~~~ robertelder Cool. You've got a fairly impressive following on that tool. I wish more people took an interest in studying these sorts of algorithms. Most people assume that some genius figured out the optimal way to do things years ago, but more often than not if you spent a few weeks focusing on a specific paper/algorithm, you'll come up with ideas for improvement (although it might not always be in the way you initially expected). Sometimes the improvement is just figuring out a better way to explain it and that in itself can lead other people to create breakthroughs. I think there are still a few improvements that could be done the the Myers algorithms. One specifically, is that I'm pretty sure it's tail recursive. You won't get any big O improvements off of that, but less stack space is still an improvement. Plus better cache locality. I'd work on some demos, but too many things to do these days... ------ im3w1l Since the problem has already been resolved, I'll go on a slight tangent and mention there are some very interesting probabilistic diffing algorithms invented by the bio-informatics people. E.g [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLAST_(biotechnology)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLAST_$biotechnology$) ------ terrelln Slightly off topic, but one great way to diff is to compress the new file using the old file as a dictionary. Both zlib and zstd support this (but zlib is limited to a 32KB file). You can tune how much CPU you want to spend getting a better diff by adjusting the compression ratio, the compressor is well tuned for speed and is generally more efficient than a diffing algorithm, it can find repetitions in the new content, and you get entropy coding. ~~~ andai That's really neat, do you maybe have any links on this? ------ anonytrary You're most likely not getting a minimal diff, but it's highly likely that your diff is good enough for your use-case. React and most other similar VDOM libraries also fail to achieve minimal diffs, however, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Just because a diff isn't minimal doesn't mean it's wrong. The ideal trade-off (diff-size vs space-time characteristics) depends on the use-case. It might be more important for a VDOM library to obtain a good- enough diff in O(N) time, as opposed to an LCS in O(NM) space and time. Linear diffing for VDOMs works well, especially with heuristics and things like explicit and implicit key matching. Sometimes the asymptotic characteristics of a program are irrelevant if your system is bounded. ~~~ devit React doesn't compute diffs, and it would be wrong for it to do so since components are stateful, and so it matters how they are matched (the idea that VDOM diffing is just an optimization is a very common misconception). Instead, you just specify keys for elements (either explicitly or by index in the sequence) and it matches elements with the same key in the old and new trees. ~~~ anonytrary > React doesn't compute diffs I think this is a bit pedantic. React computes what is essentially an edit path from one tree to another, so yes, it is computing diffs for all intents and purposes. That said, you're right that implicit and explicit key matching are not _only_ for optimizations; they're for persisting state as well. ------ kazinator I just found an O(M + N) diffing algorithm: $ my-diff yours mine --- yours 2019-10-28 15:11:07.150118090 -0700 +++ mine 2019-10-28 16:46:42.093923066 -0700 @@ -1,50 +1,75 @@ - yours - yours [...] - yours + mine + mine [...] + mine Spit out the diff and hunk header, then dump yours preceded by "\- " and then mine preceded by "\+ ". ~~~ jerf There's a non-trivial sense in which you'd be justified calling this O(1), inasmuch as the edit script "delete yours, insert mine" can be yielded up as an edit script without even reading "yours" or "mine", simply yielding "yours" and "mine" by reference. That's in a more abstract sense than something "diff" could take. However, with at most a slight change to "diff" (and I'm not sure it's even that, I think it may have this already I'm just not checking for an HN post), you can yield an O(1) "delete yours" and then insert mine, so it's O(N) without the M [1]. In UNIX terms you can just spec out "cp mine yours" as the edit script, which is O(1) from the perspective of the diff algorithm. Applying that script is O(N), of course, but generating it is constant. 1: Super pedants will note that O(N + M) isn't terribly meaningful here since adding two linear terms means you can reduce that to O(N) under the big-O rules. However, I've always like keeping the information like that in the O notation, in some sense precisely _because_ O(N+M) is-equivalent-to O(N) in big-O terms, but if you have additional knowledge like for some reason, M is exponential in a term you care about you can generate the new big-O term that you care about. In graph theory, my professor tended to want to express O(edges) as O(nodes^2), but I always liked retaining the O(edges) because O(edges) yields useful information if you know you have a sparse graph, for instance, whereas O(nodes^2) removes that. To his credit, he never marked me down for it, which puts him ahead of a lot of professors and their personal preferences... ~~~ syrak O(N + M) is not equivalent to O(N) if you make no assumptions about the relative growths of N and M, that's why it's actually meaningful to keep both terms around. You can only reduce it to O(N) when N dominates M (M = O(N)). ~~~ jerf In the case of file size inputs to a diff algorithm, it would not normally make sense to discuss how one file is going to be "exponentially" larger than another or something. They just are what they are, the bare inputs to the function in question. By contrast, graphs can have significantly different relationships between nodes and edges, for instance, with sparse vs. dense graphs. One could construct a situation in which file size inputs are varying related to each other in some O(...)-significant way, but it would be very strained, especially in the context of a _diff_ algorithm (why are you trying to diff things significantly different in size at all?). You can fiddle with almost any O(...) pronouncement that way, e.g., "adding two integers isn't O(1)". True enough, but generally, more detail then we are looking for. ~~~ lorenzhs You’re wrong, the sizes of both input files are commonly considered when analysing algorithms that work on two files. Consider a problem that could be solved by sorting one of the files and then stepping through both files item by item (not saying that any meaningful problem with this property exists, it’s just an example). Then you would have a complexity of O(n log n + m) assuming n is the size of the file being sorted. There is valuable information in running time being linear in the size of both files. You could define _n_ as the combined size if you wanted to, but that could be confusing. ------ ysleepy Does this algorithm find the _shortest_ edit script? Finding any diff is not really the problem. ~~~ dllthomas I think shortest is probably a good proxy if we can't find something better but I think in an editor "easiest to understand" is probably what's actually important. Not that I have any particular expectation that this algorithm does unexpectedly well at that. ~~~ eru Yes. That reminds me of lossy image compression: the real goal is to find a representation that looks as close as possible to the input image to the human eye. In practice, we use proxies. Not all proxies are equally good. Eg just going by Hamming distance or L2 norm distance would be awful. Proxies that take more features of our visual system into account are going to fare better. ------ jacquesm This doesn't answer your question but you really should read up on Needleman- Wunsch for matching up strings. Love this post by the way, wished we would see more of these on HN. ------ bodeadly Ah, no, the Myers algorithm is also known as the "Sortest Edit Script" and your algo does not follow the shortest path or produce a script (just -1 for mismatches). More specifically, it's not just something at the end appearing at the beginning causing skipping like others have pointed out. The skipping can happen in the middle. Consider the two sequences A B B C and B C A. Your algo will match the first Bs and then the Cs and skip the common B C together. Even if you could somehow make it work, it would be O(N) but note that with all of the split() and map() and array indexing, it starts to be more like O(N+NX) where X is that potentially non-insignificant overhead. Don't let me pooh-pooh you from trying but if you do give-in and use the Myers' algo, here's my C diff implementation: http://www.ioplex.com/~miallen/libmba/dl/src/diff.c This is actually pretty compact as diff implementations go and would probably be a reference for implementing diff in JS. ~~~ keithwhor Thank you: I'll definitely reference this if (and when) the bottleneck becomes our diffing implementation, or if as part of the editing experience we want to be able to show diffs between files that aren't stored in git. Keep in mind that right now the implementation is for an in-browser code editor. The importance of the diff algorithm is primarily to quickly determine which HTML elements to re-render on a line-by-line basis. The changes a user makes between frames are at best single-grouping insertions / deletions (cut, paste, delete, insert). For a 2k LOC file, the render step (pre-diff) was on the order of 200ms: I was repopulating thousands of DOM elements every time a line was changed. Now it's at like 3ms, so under the 16.67ms frame cutoff. I'm floored by the responses here though, this has been super helpful! I knew I was missing something academic here. :) ------ victorNicollet Question: why do you ensure that you are only moving forward? Does it matter, for line highlighting, that a line has moved up, or now appears twice? ------ pratchett Your approach is called hash join in databases. Not sure about the diffing research though. ------ vince14 React has absolutely nothing to do with that. ------ hhmc hash map worst case insertion/search is O(N) so this is potentially worst case O(N^2). IIRC a typical implementation would be more likely to be O(N log N) for some high log factor in the limit, but still worse than O(ND). And this is before we account for the fact that hashing a line probably has an implicit factor of D in it. ~~~ heavenlyblue I have just been interviewing at several companies that have highly technical interviews in London, and about 80% of the interviewers who asked questions about hash maps expected me to assume that hashmaps imply constant-time lookups. People tend to dismiss the statistics related to hash collisions because they think they are absolutely irrelevant to “real-life scenarios”. ~~~ Shoop This is because hash tables resize when they are filled with too many elements. Assuming a suitably good hash function, this gives O(1) lookup w.h.p. and insertion stays O(1) amortized. The mathematics of hash collision probabilities is factored into the resizing thresholds. Many standard library implementations of hash tables (such as rust's) also include special hash functions which are salted with random values to prevent DoS attacks which create large numbers of hash collisions. ~~~ eru If you are really paranoid, you can even use a salted cryptographic hash function. But the constant factors for those are usually worse than for simpler salted hashes, so they are not worth it for hashtables. Your fallback for collisions could also be something with O(log size_of_bucket) runtime, instead of linked lists. But again, when you don't have many collisions, that's going to be slower than something simpler. (I half remember a result that if you tune your parameters right, you can get away with a hashtable that only has enough size for storing one element in each slot; and if a collision happens, you replace that element with a tomb stone, and store put the elements involved in a single global linked list. Basically, for that to work you need to keep your total number of collision smaller than a constant with high probability.) ~~~ LgWoodenBadger Once your hashes collide, you have no other mechanism to use besides equality. How can you use something other than a list in order to find the actual value? This being for the general case where items don't have an "order/rank/sort" property between them. ~~~ eru Most of the time, when you talk about collisions we mean that two different keys get hashed to the same bucket. What mechanisms you have available depends on your implementation. For example Cuckoo Hashing ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing)) relies on having two different hash functions available. And yes, for having something like a balanced tree, having a comparison would be useful. In general, most hash functions work by consuming something like a stream of bits. So for your implementation it makes a lot of sense for the datatypes you want to use as keys to export a way to convert themselves into that stream, and leave the actual hashing into a fixed size as a detail of your hashtable. That way you can eg do fall-back comparisons directly on stream of bits (including for equality). Or you can transparently support multiple hash functions. Even in languages where the hashable interface works by giving you a method to spit out eg a 64 bit number only, you still have to map that number to one of your buckets. So for your fall-back, you can choose a different mapping. ~~~ LgWoodenBadger My point was "what else can you use besides a linked list to store hash- colliding values?" If you have a second (or a third, or a fourth...) hashing algorithm, then make it hash tables all the way down. At the end, you still need some data structure to store hash-colliding values. And if so, what other structure could you possibly use besides a list (linked-, array-, etc.) ? ~~~ eru > If you have a second (or a third, or a fourth...) hashing algorithm, then > make it hash tables all the way down. At the end, you still need some data > structure to store hash-colliding values. Why? You can have just two layers: the primary hash table and your buckets are made up of one small secondary hashtable each. If there's a collision in the bucket hashtable, pick a now random hash function for that bucket and re-hash everything in the bucket. If that fails after trying a few times, pick a new random hash for the primary hash table and consider resizing. I bet you can make that scheme workable in O(1) expected amortised time for inserts and lookups. Cuckoo hashing ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing)) is a related idea: you just have to hash functions. If you had three elements that collide for both hash functions each, you just re-hash your entire table. (From Wikipedia:) > When a new key is inserted, and one of its two cells is empty, it may be > placed in that cell. However, when both cells are already full, it will be > necessary to move other keys to their second locations (or back to their > first locations) to make room for the new key. A greedy algorithm is used: > The new key is inserted in one of its two possible locations, "kicking out", > that is, displacing, any key that might already reside in this location. > This displaced key is then inserted in its alternative location, again > kicking out any key that might reside there. The process continues in the > same way until an empty position is found, completing the algorithm. > However, it is possible for this insertion process to fail, by entering an > infinite loop or by finding a very long chain (longer than a preset > threshold that is logarithmic in the table size). In this case, the hash > table is rebuilt in-place using new hash functions: [...] You say: > And if so, what other structure could you possibly use besides a list > (linked-, array-, etc.) ? Any datastructure you feel like. You can also use a balanced search tree, if you want to. See eg [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_table#Separate_chaining_w...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_table#Separate_chaining_with_other_structures)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
LuaJIT on Xen - justincormack http://www.freelists.org/post/luajit/LuaJIT-on-Xen ====== justincormack The framework here is fairly general and you should be able to run other code directly under Xen eg Python. Node would be harder as there is no threading which libuv needs. ~~~ anttiok There is threading in the underlying framework. In fact, since there is no VM support, threading is all you have. However, there is no pthread support which is probably what you are referring to. I don't think pthread support would be difficult to add. Most likely it's trivial in case non-preemptive run-to-block threads are ok. If someone has a use case for pthreads, I'm up for a discussion. ~~~ justincormack Libuv which node.js uses has threads to do non blocking file IO. Haven't looked at the code for ages though so not sure exactly what it needs. ~~~ gcr Is this because asynchronous I/O calls don't work consistently well on all the platforms that libuv targets? ~~~ justincormack Async file IO on Linux is a bit odd, although it is gradually getting better. It only applies to unbuffered IO (I think still). So you have to use a thread to read or write. Windows has a more usable version. There is a Unix standard API but it is just implemented with threads normally anyway. ------ silentOpen OCaml on Xen [http://www.openmirage.org/](http://www.openmirage.org/) ------ mwcampbell What advantage is there to running something like this on Xen rather than running an almost equally self-contained process on a general-purpose OS kernel like Linux or BSD? Is Xen's resource isolation that much better? ~~~ zhemao Perhaps not, but I think the purpose of these Xen exokernels is to run on IaaS platforms which provide Xen VPS, like EC2 or Linode. ------ keeblus The limitations seem pretty high. Why would I use this when I could run something like Docker on bare metal? ~~~ justincormack Docker is a way of making config management easy. Here there really is less stuff. You build a binary with your whole application and all its dependencies that actually self hosts. And is smaller than Docker's init process. And a VM is better isolated than a Linux container. EDIT: the restrictions are not necessarily permanent either. Its only a first early release... ~~~ anttiok Yes, tiny resource overhead while still providing near-complete isolation is a big benefit. The current memory overhead from using file system drivers and TCP/IP networking is around 8MB, and I'm sure there's a bunch of fat in there that could be trimmed off. It's going to be interesting to see where the exact set of supported application images converges as use cases arise. For example, I'm pretty sure fork() will never be supported -- would it fork the VM? -- but some of the other things are up for discussion.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Code School now open to the public - acrum http://www.codeschool.com ====== falcolas Doesn't it seem to anyone else that there's more than a little astroturfing going on here? Many positive commenters in this thread have 1 karma and no other posts, and this link has shown up in no less than 3 front page links as of this writing. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2354776> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2354830> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2355091> ~~~ acrum FWIW, no "astroturfing" from me. I got the e-mail that they launched and submitted the URL, because I've been looking forward to taking a look at it (didn't get a beta invite). Haven't used it much yet, but I like the concept, and to me the execution looks promising. ------ j_baker "An interactive online marketplace where you can learn to code directly in the browser" Is it just me or does something seem ... off about this blurb? For whatever reason, "interactive online marketplace" just rubs me the wrong way, but I can't quite put my finger on why. ~~~ neverdull It's the word "marketplace" that sounds off to my ear - too buzzwordy, and not descriptive of what's on offer. "Environment" might sound better? The words "interactive" and "online" are fair descriptions of the service, but essentially made redundant by the phrase "directly in the browser". ------ BvS 75 US$ (final price for Rails Best Practices) for 5 videos of 10-15 minutes seem a little expensive. Are the non video parts worth the money? ~~~ PStamatiou Try Rails for Zombies (free) to get an idea of the quality. I find it worth it. ------ eli I see "Featured Courses" on the homepage, and a "My Courses" link that requires a login, but no way to see any other courses. I take it that means the four I see are the only ones available/scheduled right now? ~~~ j3 Yep. The HTML and jQuery courses are in post-production now and will be released soon. From there, we're shooting for at least one course per month. ------ twymer Rails for Zombies was very well done, but not too long into it I found myself going straight to the end, looking at what I needed to do and then clicking through the video to find to the parts where he actually got to the guts of what it was about and how to do it. Overall it's a neat idea and the guys at EnvyLabs are great but I couldn't see myself paying for more. ------ peteysd Rails for Zombies is brilliant. Very high-quality stuff, and the website design is beautiful. I can't wait to see their JS courses. ~~~ nathanwdavis I sincerely hope they don't do a course on Website performance or page asset loading. Turn on Firebug and refresh the site, and you'll see no script/css combining, lots of un-minified js, and a total download of more than half a megabyte on the homepage. It feels slow too. ~~~ petercooper Successful entrepreneurs release and sell first, refine later. ~~~ mquander The courses claim to teach programming, not entrepreneurship. ~~~ smarterchild They're in the business of coding first, the coding of business second. ------ Jabbles Can you claim that something is on sale the moment you release it? (A genuine question, I thought there may have been a requirement to note that something is an "introductory offer", but there are almost certainly different laws that apply to online sales.) ~~~ acangiano You can if it's a special "launch price" which will be increased after a given amount of time. ------ molecularbutter looks great, any plans for courses on Objective C, Cocoa, iOS/Mac development? ~~~ j3 I'm thinking about doing a MacRuby course this summer. That's at least in your direction. ~~~ stcredzero You are going to have a Ruby focus, then? ~~~ j3 Most of the people involved are Ruby people, but we'll look to bring in new authors as the site grows. ------ JesseDearing Loved Rails for Zombies and I can't wait for the others to open up. The format that Envy Labs has for online learning is really just brilliant. ------ Stratego Tested this and learned a ton of from the Rails Best Practices course, whereas it usually takes me a while to learn how to refactor code properly using a new language or framework or even to care. Definitely trickier than Rails for Zombies for people how have used Rails before but much more rewarding. ------ radioactive21 Looks good, but I'll wait for more refinement of the courses and website. One thing others have mention and I hope gets attention, is more details are need for each class. Right now it's like looking at a book with just the title and back cover. Hard to see if it's for you. ------ dyogenez Definitely worth it. Went through it a few weeks ago and learned a lot - even though I've been using Rails for years. It goes into a lot of Rails 3 best practices too, so helps to make sure you're on the right track there. Really like the approach they take too -- sometimes writing code from scratch, sometimes refactoring bad code to best practices. ------ FreshCode Big 404 after trying to "buy" Rails for Zombies. Hopefully just the HN effect setting in. Ah, worked after a few tries. ------ nerdyworm I'd love to see computer science problems explained and solved. For instance start with a problem like <http://www.coderloop.com/puzzles/friendsfinder> and then show various approaches and solutions to it. Just a thought. ~~~ j3 That's a cool idea. In the future we'll build the capability for bigger "projects" rather than individual exercises. Then we'd be able to solve problems like this the right way. ------ sboak I haven't watched any Code School videos yet, but learning to code by video has always been my method of choice. I've been using the (awesome) videos from Lynda.com for years now and have always found them concise and helpful with really good content. ~~~ Mafana0 Second that. Video lessons are great, I'm a happy customer of both Lynda and Total Training. What really helped me to start learning web development is their ASP.NET lessons. ------ PStamatiou Been using Code School for a while now (beta) and absolutely love it. Just posted my thoughts on it here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2355091> ------ danneu I haven't used it, but due to some of the comments in this thread, some people should check out PeepCode.com ------ omnivore I like the concept a great deal. Just the sort of presentation needed for me to get fence sitters off of it. ------ dev_Gabriel Just registered and I'll try Rails for Zombies(never programmed Ruby/Rails before). The design is pretty cool. ------ MattyBE This is awesome. I've been wanting to try ruby and get better at coding in general. ------ BasDirks First time the graphic designer in me went "WOW" after clicking an HN link. ------ jeffreymcmanus Are there live human instructors behind this or is it just videos? ~~~ gte910h Videos with tests that check your answers. ~~~ jeffreymcmanus So, no way to ask questions, then. Hm. ~~~ gte910h The course material really doesn't require it. Try the free rails for zombies module. You can do just a bit of it to get the style. <http://railsforzombies.org/> ------ marknutter That is one gorgeous site.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Ruby Reading List - llambda http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1759889 ====== sigzero If I were to want to start learning Ruby (with little programming experience) what would be the learning track to take in books, etc.? ~~~ sabat Relevant enough question IMHO, despite the downvotes. Chris Pine's book _Learn to Program_ has a good reputation, and it tackles both of your goals: learning to program, and learning Ruby. The second edition is set to be released in five days. [http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Program-Pragmatic-Programmers- Ch...](http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Program-Pragmatic-Programmers- Chris/dp/0976694042) <http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/> ~~~ telemachos > The second edition is set to be released in five days. I think you misunderstood the Amazon site. The book's second edition was released in 2009. (I have a hard copy here that I confirmed with.) And the PragProg site doesn't say anything about an upcoming _3rd_ edition. I think you misunderstood this Amazon note: "In stock on November 6, 2011." That just means they are out of stock and expect to get more by November 6th. ~~~ sabat You're correct. I saw "in stock ..." and assumed the second edition was brand new. ------ Homunculiheaded "Metaprogramming Ruby" is really great. If you are an experienced programmer (especially with Lisp, Smalltalk, Haskell etc knowledge) I would recommend getting comfortable with the basic syntax and then diving straight into this book. It really cuts to the chase as to why ruby really is such an interesting language, something which I felt an entire read through of the pick-axe didn't really accomplish. ------ acangiano My take: \- Ruby:<http://programmingzen.com/ruby-and-rails-recommended-books/> \- Rails: <http://programmingzen.com/rails-books/> ------ michaelchisari Great list, does anybody know of a Python or C equivalent for this? ~~~ jwallaceparker Yeah here is one for Python: [http://wordaligned.org/articles/essential-python-reading- lis...](http://wordaligned.org/articles/essential-python-reading-list) ------ danso I echo the nod for Metaprogramming Ruby Quite honestly, I haven't gotten into Ruby Best Practices yet, but credit must be given to Gregory Brown for making it freely available: <http://rubybestpractices.com/> As a middling programmer trying to learn Ruby, O'Reilly Ruby Cookbook has been by far the best reference. Great example code, great explanation, and best of all, the recipes are actually useful: <http://www.crummy.com/writing/RubyCookbook/>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: ParePdf, an app for comparing pdfs - redman25 https://www.parepdf.com/ ====== theveloped Looks like a great app you built! And love the idea of simply using a color overlay to visualize the difference. You might want to also look at the verification of contracts as a target market. Often the addition of digital signatures or scanned pages will avoid md5 checksums to check for any tampering. Bacause you approach is visual it might be a great way to validate a contract has not been altered.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Uber Plans to Go Public in 18-24 Months, According to Leaked Presentation - zhuxuefeng1994 http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/21/uber-plans-to-go-public-in-12-18-months-according-to-leaked-presentation/ ====== alopecoid Dumb question: Since Google Ventures invested in Uber, does that mean that owning Google stock indirectly translates to a [small] pre-IPO investment in Uber? [http://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Uber-does-Google- own](http://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Uber-does-Google-own) "Google Ventures invested $258M at $3.7B post-money valuation in 2013, so they bought 6.8% of the company. Depending on whether or not they have taken pro- rata investment rights in Uber's subsequent financings they either own the same percentage or a slightly diluted stake. Let's say somewhere between 6.0% and 6.8% as of Q1 2015." ~~~ matthewmcg It's hard to say. Google Ventures actually invests through various funds organized as limited partnerships. These are separate entities and Google, Inc. would only receive a return from this investment to the extent that it was a partner in the fund that invested in Uber or if it had a side agreement with that fund to give it a share of the return. You can tell from various GV SEC filings that Google, Inc. may have the right to vote shares held by the GV funds, but the filings don't disclose Google's share of the proceeds of a sale of the shares. ------ countrybama24 Considering their track record, I wouldn't be surprised if they have no intention whatsoever of going public. Uber has to convince investors they will be able to exit their investment and the total pool of investors willing to try their luck in the secondary market is likely much smaller than those looking for traditional IPO or trade sale liquidity events. Not that they would have difficulty raising money, but they are certainly pushing the limits of the terms they can receive. Someone else pointed out this would also be a useful tactic in recruiting pitches. Is it really worth it to go public? The reporting burdens for public companies are well documented. But also this management team has used some pretty shady tactics in the past. I can't imagine they love the idea of the scrutiny that comes with being public. You can always sell your share of the company in one of these financing rounds if you wanted to diversify your wealth. ------ brohee > This year, the firm expects to clock $10.84 billion in revenue which — > calculating the 20 percent commission that it takes — should bring in around > $2 billion in revenue for the year. Its projection for next year comes in at > $26.12 billion, which could generate over $5 billion in take-home money. So, is it eleven or is two billions in revenue... Techcrunch... ~~~ GauntletWizard I'm guessing those are "Gross" vs "Net", or "Revenue" vs "Profit", depending on how you define your terms. ~~~ rajivtiru Definitely not $2B "Profit" since they would have to subtract all other overhead costs like salaries etc. I think the article mentions that actual profit might be negative. ~~~ GauntletWizard A business can report one business unit (The bit that hires drivers and sends them out) is 'profitable', and also have an overall in-the-red because other business units aren't. I've not read the presentation, but it may be that Uber is trying to show their engineering costs and operations costs as two business units to better represent how the business scales (Engineering costs go up only logarithmically, while operations go 1:1 with revenue). ------ languagehacker Claims of a plan to go public are very often more of an employee retention tactic than an actual concrete plan coming from the CFO. Don't be surprised if they reuse these slides in three years to a largely fresh-faced crew of engineers with stars in their eyes about their stock options. ------ lquist One data point in support of this actually happening vs being a retention/recruiting tactic: A financial analyst friend of mine was hired at Uber ~6M ago as part of a team to help with the accounting/etc. for Uber to go public. ~~~ wdewind You may want to be careful pointing that out. Uber is big, but it's possible that description only matches one person, and you've just implied that person did something they definitely shouldn't have by telling you Uber was going to go public soon. ~~~ lquist Good point, but I've changed enough of the specifics that I don't think he/she will be outed. ------ ameyamk Uber's valuation is now starting to makes sense if this is true. Marginal cost of revenue for uber is very very low. You can argue that gross margins can run as high as 60-70% of revenue. Giving uber gross profit of over 3B for 2016. Given how aggressive uber is in driving growth premium on valuation is making sense. Side note: I was in Chicago last week - and I am noticing almost every cab driver now has uber app open. There are 13k uber drivers in chicago alone. Anecdotal evidence suggests Uber is winning. ~~~ shs The issue is whether any of that will matter if self-driving cars come into the picture sooner rather than later. Uber's key advantage is that there's a huge network effect that's hard to overcome with humans. Drivers want to use the app that riders are using. Riders want to use the app that drivers are using. If a company could go out and finance a few hundred self-driving vehicles, it would be easy to build up market share for competing services with lower margins. Where I am, Uber has far better coverage than competing services. But if it were easy for alternatives to cover equally and with lower margins, riders would easily check the cheaper services. While Uber is certainly employing robotics engineers, so are the auto manufacturers, Google, and possibly others. I think people use Uber for the same reason that people use Facebook - it's hard to get all the other humans to use other services when the value of those other services is how many people are using it. But when self-driving cars allow anyone with enough money to finance enough vehicles that they're offering comparable wait times, Uber's network effect disappears. Sure, it will still have brand recognition and some amount of loyalty. But it won't have the kind of barrier to entry that it has today. Uber is winning, but it's also subject to a huge disruption by self-driving cars. If one can purchase and operate a self-driving car for $500/mo., you only need to do $17 worth of rides per day for that to pay you back. If Uber tries to keep its margins up, there's no reason someone isn't going to come into the market with some VC and drive those margins down quite a bit. Lyft, Sidecar, Split, and others all face a huge challenge of getting drivers to work for their service before they have riders and getting riders for their service before they have drivers. If they could just grab some VC to pay the finance charges on the vehicles until ridership picks up, that's a game changer. Uber goes from Facebook with a wonderful network-effect moat to Amazon who has to make sure that margins stay razor thin to maintain a quarter of the market. I'm not saying that Amazon can't do good things, just that Amazon doesn't get high margins and if it tried to up its margins 10%, many people would shop elsewhere. With self-driving cars, someone is going to have near-zero margins and if Uber is 20% above that, people will switch. In fact, if Uber had margins of 60-70%, why wouldn't Amazon (who has a reasonable amount of robotics expertise with Kiva and their drone research) step into the market at significantly cheaper prices? Heck, Amazon could have an automated delivery fleet of cars with drones handling the car-to-door problem and then Amazon could use their "excess capacity" much like they did with EC2 to drive people Uber-style. During the 10-4 day (when there's less demand for vehicles), they could deliver Amazon packages. From 7:30-9:30am and 5-7pm they could do rush-hour and 7pm-4am do restaurant and bar patrons. That's probably a lot more use out of those vehicles than one could get simply from people wanting an Uber and that would lead to lower prices. Sitting here in the cheap seats, I guess I wonder how Uber would fare against that business plan. Amazon accepts thin margins and has a giant use case for their vehicles for the hours that self-driving Ubers sit idle. I'm not saying that Uber isn't filled with smart people. The issue is simply that Uber's current success is probably mostly due to the network effect. They might still have future success, but it's going to be tempered by the fact that competition will be a lot easier. ~~~ minthd You're forgetting ride sharing(i.e. uber's UberPool). by sharing rides , one can save 40% (or maybe more, inc case sharign with 3 passenger is available) of cost. And that creates a powerful network effect with the possibility of disrupting the private car. Since this lower cost sharing dynamic might be appealing to passengers also in a world with self-driving cars, and such network effects would be a powerful effect against commodization for the self-driving car company - it's understandable why the SDC company might be willing to share profits with UBER , just to lock the market. Of course that's one scenario, but in general, one would guess that UberPool will have some influence on the self driving car market. ~~~ nugget That is one network effect that Uber will maintain but I wonder how cheap self driving car services can become - cheaper cars, cheaper energy, no human drivers - we are looking at an extreme amount of price deflation down to levels where the additional discount of pooling might not make sense for most people. ------ dataker I wonder if 'leaked' could've been replaced by 'announced' ~~~ simonebrunozzi Well said. This has cleary been fed to Techcrunch by Uber itself. ~~~ toephu2 Reuters, not Techcrunch. ------ joshmn And they're still losing an exceptional amount of money. This will be interesting. ~~~ taxigy Think Twitter. Their stock performed (relatively) well until May 2015, for two and a half years (which could make some of the stock owners rich enough, think investors). Standing at some point at company valuation and actually earning money are like two different worlds. ------ paulsutter Pretty much all late-stage startups are planning to go public in "18-24 months". Most have expected an 18-24 month IPO for several years now. When they say it, they add, "but really for sure this time" ------ vonnik Planning to go public 18-24 months from now is like planning to get married before you've met your significant other. The window for IPOs opens and shuts, and sometimes it stays shut for a long time. Especially for companies like Uber, which are new and unprofitable, albeit large and growing fast. Rather than reading this plan as referring to actual events in the future, we should read it as Uber selling itself to bigger and bigger investors, since those investors are unlikely to see profit any other way. ------ Cacti "leaked" ~~~ joezydeco Well, the global markets are tanking this week. Gotta do something to keep investors interested. ------ acd Anyone reflecting over the high valuation of these startups which does not yet make money and that it could be a bubble? Nobody considered the Tulips bulbs mania in Amsterdam a bubble until after it burst. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania) ------ bsder Gotta get the next layer of the pyramid when you're losing that much money. ~~~ mhartl Uber is only losing money right now because it's in a land-grab situation [1]. Barring some cataclysm, someday Uber will be insanely profitable. Their investors understand this, and their valuation reflects it. [1]: [http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2010/02/14.html](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2010/02/14.html) ~~~ toomuchtodo > Barring some cataclysm, someday Uber will be insanely profitable. As long as their funding holds on long enough for the to possibly develop self-driving cars before Google or Tesla, and if transportation laws change in their favor. Good luck disrupting when the roads vital to your survival aren't owned by you. ------ rconti According to the leaked presentation, it could be next year. Or it could be in 2016.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Deis 0.9.0 – Dockerfiles, Domains, and HA Routing - rgarcia http://deis.io/deis-0-9-0-dockerfiles-domains-and-ha-routing/ ====== bacongobbler Deis maintainer here. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have either here or on twitter :) [https://twitter.com/bacongobbler](https://twitter.com/bacongobbler) ~~~ cbsmith So, looking at the architecture, it seems like you have some design components that overlap with pieces design components in CoreOS. I'm not clear as to what components are really application components vs. platform operations components, so maybe that's it. But the use of rsyslog in lieu of systemd seems like really going against the CoreOS grain. Is this really a function of trying to mirror Heroku as closely as possible? ~~~ shykes My understanding of Deis's design goals is that they will pick and choose their favorite components from any number of sources (including but not limited to CoreOS), but don't plan on locking themselves into any particular distro. Instead they are relying on Docker itself as the point of interoperability. As a maintainer of Docker I think it's a good thing that you preserve the freedom to run your platform on any number of distros, and are not stuck, for example with having to install systemd everywhere. ~~~ cbsmith I grok the container win (been using containers on non-Linux platforms and OpenVZ on Linux platforms for ages). I agree a nice aspect of using Docker is that you have the flexibility of using whatever distro you want for each application component... however a heterogeneous container platform doesn't really provide much of a win, and to make that work you just end up implementing your own solution for each of the components that abstract you from the platform. ~~~ shykes That's assuming Docker doesn't expand its interface to allow for more parts of the platform to be interoperable :) The whole point of Docker is to introduce simple interfaces to important components of distributed systems, and get a critical mass of people to agree on it, producing interoperability. So far we did this for packaging and sandboxed execution of individual components, with some success. We plan on doing this for other areas in the future, including clustering, stack composition, application networking, service discovery, authentication and access control, etc. This will allow rival implementations to compete in each of these areas, without creating fragmentation. I don't want a World where "CoreOS containers" can't talk to "Atomic containers" or "Mesos containers" because we couldn't agree on a common interface - we can do better than that. We are pretty open about that plan. The Deis guys know this and are making the bet that embracing "Docker-native" interoperability is good for them. ~~~ cbsmith I think I didn't present what I was saying clearly. I think you definitely want to be very open about what the inside of the container looks like and even what the interface is between the containers and the rest of the world. I was thinking about the platform that the containers run on top of. You don't gain anything by using a given host platform, but building alternate components that handle deploying and wiring up those containers. You're better off either using the existing platform's components or contributing patches to it, and the latter really only makes sense if you're adding something distinctive. ~~~ shykes I understand. But from the point of view of Deis, CoreOS is not a platform. It is a Linux distro with a loose collection of tools pre-installed, some of which Deis happens to use. One such tool is Fleet. Another is the systemd log journal. Each of those tools has dozens of competitors. Deis reserves the right to pick and choose from those competitors without locking themselves in. It also reserves the right to use some pieces of CoreOS without using the other. If you think of CoreOS as an end-to-end monolithic platform, this may seem strange. But it is perfectly aligned with the Docker philosophy, which is that big monolithic platforms are not a good thing. What you want is a vast ecosystem of small composable lego bricks. ~~~ cbsmith > Deis reserves the right to pick and choose from those competitors without > locking themselves in. Well of course! It is your own project. > If you think of CoreOS as an end-to-end monolithic platform, this may seem > strange. Yeah, but I'm not looking at CoreOS as an end-to-end monolithic platform. I'm looking at it as a bunch of components that happen to be bundled together, each of which is pretty nice all by itself. It doesn't mean you have to use them all, but on the other hand, you would hope that if you were going to replace one of them entirely you'd go with something with a significant advantage (and I'd argue in some cases it has gone the opposite way). > What you want is a vast ecosystem of small composable lego bricks. Understood. I just don't think you help yourself much if you take out one brick and replace it with one of your own, particularly if the new brick isn't any better than the old one (and might be worse). ~~~ shykes I should clarify that I am not part of the Deis project, although I know Gabriel and follow their roadmap closely.. Sorry if I wasn't clear. ------ cardmagic I just interviewed Deis CTO Gabriel Monroy about Deis and how it works with CoreOS and how it differs from Flynn and Dokku. Great guy, great team, and awesome project. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5EI16DG1sg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5EI16DG1sg) ------ tristanz Is there any story for persistent data / running database services? ~~~ bacongobbler Indeed we do. Feel free to contribute to the conversation here: [https://github.com/deis/deis/issues/231](https://github.com/deis/deis/issues/231) ------ benmccann What is Deis using for this new HA routing? HAProxy, ELB, homegrown? ~~~ andyshinn It is their own nginx HTTP / TCP router, which is backed by etcd and confd. You can check it out at [https://github.com/deis/deis/tree/master/router](https://github.com/deis/deis/tree/master/router). Essentially, you can fire up multiple of these instances, and Deis uses them to route application, controller, and git traffic to the proper container.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: The habit adopted in 2016 that had the greatest impact on your health? - sharmi Apart from exercise, what other habits have had a big impact on your health?<p>For me, standing desk was a noticeable improvement from sitting desk for health and avoiding procastination. But it is not doable when your energy is low ( tired or sick) and if I had particularly mentally demanding job on hand.<p>I have much better weight loss when pairing exercise with standing desks ====== drewmol I have made a consistent effort to be honest. Being honest about my feelings, thoughts and situations to everyone in my life; friends, family, and complete strangers. It's been incredibly benificial to my relationships and emotional well being, and I've been shocked at the level of compassion, motivation and honesty I've recieved in return, including deepening of relationships and emotional connection with friends/family/coworkers/acquaintances I've known for decades, and people I've just met. My fears and pessimistic worries about exposing vulnerabilities through brutal honesty have been overwhelmingly met with love, compssion, understanding, support and opportunity. This including the opportunity to offer the same to people whom I would have otherwise been blind to their similar struggles, thoughts and situations. <\--- I typed this and almost diddn't post it because (insert misanthropic adjective here) ~~~ Lordcosmo Have you had bad experiences and if so, how did you cope with them? This is something people nowadays should do more, including me. I am going to make this my goal for the new year. I always fear how people will react/think about me when I tell them my feelings/thoughts. This has caused my to lie about a lot of things(mostly small ones), which becomes a habit in time. It mostly comes from insecurity about yourself and low selfworth and not being able to stand up for yourself. As such, I think these traits will greatly improve if you are honest. ~~~ drewmol Yes, certainly, but the bad ones are few and far between. Also honesty makes it easier to identify and limit the emotionally toxic relationships. Coping becomes much easier with the increased network of people to share with. "As such, I think these traits will greatly improve if you are honest." \- This has been my experience! ------ smashd Potato hacking. I normally follow the "potatoes by day" variant. The process is simple: steam/boil at least a couple pounds of potatoes, then let them cool in the fridge overnight. The next day, you can only eat potatoes (no condiments whatsoever!) until dinnertime, at which point you can eat a normal dinner. Coffee, tea and water are fine during the day as long as they don't have added sugar/cream/etc. Don't forget to cook more potatoes if you're running low! They keep for at least a few days in the fridge. In my experience the hack is a great way to liberate yourself from false hunger signals and feeling like you "must" eat certain foods. If you're hungry, the potatoes taste good. If you're not, they don't. Resetting all these habits helped me shift the remainder of my diet towards better food choices, to the point where I actively seek out fresh veggies & fruit and dislike packaged or meat-heavy meals. The hack is not for people that have issues with nightshades or starches of course. potatohack.com has the most comprehensive info on the subject, but it is discussed on other blogs as well. ~~~ tracker1 Interesting... I tend not to eat just potatoes (I'm diabetic), but wonder if it would work with my typical "mash" (cauliflower, celeriac, parsnip, potato, butter, cream, salt, pepper) it isn't just potato, but may be able to get a similar effect if I cut the butter, cream, salt and pepper down. Will definitely look into it. ~~~ smashd Yes, there are cautions for people that are diabetic or pre-diabetic. I suspect that you can't do the strict "hack" but there could be useful ideas in there, e.g., related discussions on resistant starch. ------ smnplk Did about 8k on the bike and got back on a rowing machine, but somehow ended the year still overweight. So in terms of health my year will hopefully be 2017, I will get on a LCHF diet. Because I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, I did a little experiment 5 months ago, I stayed gluten free for 3 months (because I read somewhere that gluten could be the culprit) and my digestion and overall being improved. So I need to get back on diet and also cut out all the sugars. The biggest impact on my health has been impulsive overeating of candy. I even got a little worried about possible diabetes and bought a glucose meter, had an elevated blood sugar only two times in the morning, from 10 day tests. So I might not have diabetes...yet. But if I keep this up, I'm on a good path. I look unfit now, I weigh 110kg, I almost came to 100kg this year, but now I bounced back, especially in December, go figure why :P But I am not out of shape in terms of performance, I did a lot of weight lifting this year also, I can squat 150kg and deadlift 210kg with np, I did some really heavy climbs on my bike with 400 avg watts for 30 mins, so I am a lot better than average overweight guy. 12 years of rowing in the past, also helps. I just need to figure out why I constantly crave for short term satisfactions. ~~~ snovv_crash Was in the same boat. I cut out sugar (except for a banana in a protein shake each day) and made sure that I get enough protein. After a few weeks the sugar cravings stopped and I also lost a bunch of water weight. I also seem to have a smaller appetite, and when I eat I stop when I feel satisfied, which never seemed to happen before, instead I would stop when my stomach felt uncomfortably full because I never felt satisfied. I'm really happy with the changes, and it is making it easier to stick with my lifting program because I feel like I am making progress again. ~~~ smnplk Well done. I hope I can do the same. Do you think I can ease off sugar in small steps, like substituting candy with sweetened tea (agave syrup) ? I also heard that lemon juice helps when you get a sugar craving. ~~~ smashd I personally eased off sugar in iterations, by making short "pushes" where I cut out ALL added sugars and answered any cravings with fruit like bananas, apples or grapes. Each iteration wouldn't last forever, but every time I "cheated" it was with a little less sugar than before. And every time I tried again I lasted a little longer before cheating. Something that really helped me was getting angry at the companies producing all these foods with added sugar. Seriously, look at the labels, it is EVERYWHERE (at least in the USA). I resolved to not buy these products--why give your money to these companies that can't make a product taste good without resorting to cheap tricks? Why am I paying them to hurt me? I do still buy dark chocolate for dessert a few times a week--I am not opposed to dessert, but that's the only place I think sugar should be. Ultimately I think everyone has a unique approach (mentally and physically) that works for them, and it's probably an ensemble of smaller strategies accumulated over time that create success in the end. Be willing to experiment (safely), accept temporary failures, learn what works and then repeat all over again. ------ benevol 1\. Mindful meditation [free] John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio meditation exercises) [1]. There are a couple of scientific studies which prove effectiveness [2] [3]. 2\. LSD [$5-10/dose + $25/multi-use test kit] Benefits (mid- and long-term) are similar to those of meditation. In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension, which increases quality of life even further (it is less immediate with meditation). It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it (minimum literature: "The psychedelic explorer's guide" by Fadiman). Also, order a test kit and test before you ingest. Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it. [0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat- Zinn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn) [1] [https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through...](https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through_Depression_- _Guided_Meditation_Practices) [2] [http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks- to...](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better- brain/) [3] [http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain- neuros...](http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuroscience) ~~~ Fnoord > In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension Spiritual dimension is just vague new age rhetoric. I don't want to be fear mongering but you may end up with a psychosis as well. Recommending random strangers to use recreational psychedelic drugs under the guise of getting "similar mid- and long-term effects to those of meditation" is flat out irresponsible. For those who _are_ interested in using psychedelic drugs. First of all, never use a full dose the first time you use it. Second, get a sitter aka babysitter. That means someone who does not use any drugs (that means nothing in the sense that the sitter(s) need to stay awake during your drugs usage, and worst case the sitter(s) should still be able to drive you to the hospital if its needed). Consider to inform your doctor and discuss with them the alternatives. Instead of LSD and other psychedelic drugs I want to offer an alternative. If you want something akin to mindful meditation: do it more, or follow a 10 day Vipassana course. > Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it. This disclaimer is too vague. Some people don't know they are, or are young and will do it anyway because young people's brains (age < 25) are not yet fully grown up. If you're into mindful meditation and want to take it much further, follow a 10 day Vipassana course instead. You will get guidance from the people there, and if you really get over the edge during your 10 day course (you're likely to experience difficult times regardless), you'll at least not be under the influence of drugs and will be surrounded by specialists who are sober. Also, a mindfulness instructor (such a course might be worth paying for) has followed a 10 day Vipassana course as its part of the requirement to become one. Finally, I can highly recommend yoga _together_ with meditation. (Without any spiritual BS, as that is unnecessary/distracting and excludes those with different religions including atheism. A good yoga or mindfulness instructor will include everyone, and avoid using such rhetoric.) TL;DR do mindfulness, yoga, Vipassana don't do psychedelic drugs. ~~~ benevol As I said: _It however requires one to literally read /understand/know everything about the substance before applying it_ If you follow this, you will know if you belong to the category of people who should not use the substance to discover more of what we perceive as reality. It seems obvious to me that a comment on HN will never be able to fully cover the subject. I agree however 100% with your suggestion to add yoga. ~~~ Fnoord >> It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it > If you follow this, you will know if you belong to the category of people > who should not use the substance to discover more of what we perceive as > reality. It seems obvious to me that a comment on HN will never be able to > fully cover the subject. Yes, I saw that disclaimer as well. Do you want me to address it? Your usage of "literally read/understand/know everything about the substance" fits CYA due to being extensively broad. Nobody in the world ever read/understand/know everything about any subject. Even those who maintain Erowid, studied psychology in university, or Albert Hofmann for that matter know everything about LSD. Those who know very little are arrogant about their knowledge whereas those who do know a lot are modest and acknowledge there's so much they do not know. It is also not how drug usage should work. If you get drugs prescribed from your MD you need to follow his directions as well as the directions from the drugs. You're basically under his supervision and guidance, he's partly responsible for your well being. The best you have as recreational user is your own knowledge (while your psyche is impacted by the drugs), and hopefully a knowledgeable, emotionally stable sitter. Please, don't recommend psychedelic drugs (or even drugs) to random strangers [1]. You may think they are intelligent and responsible, but many just aren't. Recommend it only to those people you know very well, and follow the advice I told you about not using full dose first time as well as sitter. The options of more mindfulness, yoga, and Vipassana 10 day course are much less dangerous. (Even those can be dangerous though which is why I follow yoga via an experienced yoga instructor who is finishing their physiology study, instead of following online free YouTube videos.) [1] And especially not while using a good introduction, with sources, about the benefits of mindfulness & meditation while not providing any for psychedelic drug usage while suggesting it as the next step of mindfulness & meditation. ------ igitur A few things: I started eating 2 hard boiled eggs (aka arse fruit) each morning. I now don't have a hunger craving at 10am like I used to have and can easily work through to lunch time and have a moderate lunch. I joined a choir and it helps take my mind off the 9 hours of coding I do every day. It also gives me an outlet for my limited artistic side. You say besides exercise, but I have to add that I started boxing. We have clubs that specialise in white-collar boxing, which has a lower barrier to entry than normal amateur boxing. I'm not good, but the club is inviting of all levels of talent and it's the best exercise I've ever done. Had my first public fight in March 2016, which was a big psychological hurdle. Nailed it. ~~~ benevol > I started boxing The hits you receive cause brain cells to die. Your brain being your most valuable asset, generally speaking, but even more so for intellectual work such as programming, you may want to switch to a no-contact martial art (such as kung-fu). ~~~ plinkplonk "no-contact _martial_ art" is a bit of an oxymoron. If you plan to use your martial art to improve at _fighting_ (vs general fitness) there is no way around free sparring. Every school of Kung Fu _that teaches fighting_ includes sparring. If you don't want to get better at fighting, might as well learn ballet, or go running. Your point about head concussion from extensive boxing practice is a good one. ~~~ loxs And still, there are martial arts that do not exclusively specialize in having your head battered with heavy gloves. ------ imafish I stopped running and started working more. My health has never been worse. I regurlarly deal with back problems and I have gained a lot of weight. Used to be thin, now I am somewhat chubby. I want to start running again. ~~~ mjolk Good luck with your startup. ~~~ askafriend Having lived in San Francisco for the past couple years, something about this simple exchange gives me a eerie twinge of intellectual sickness. ------ hakanderyal I've changed my eating habits and started following ketogenic diet(keto)[0] 18 days ago, and I already had great results so far. I wasn't terribly overweight, but always on the thin line between obesity and overweight. At the beginning: 184cm/6" height, 104 kg/229 lbs weight, 30.7 BMI Now: 95 kg/209 lbs, 28,1 BMI. Although I only lost 9 kg/20 lbs, I started wearing my XL t-shirts again down from XXL, and all my jeans are too loose already. The best part of keto is it's not just a diet for weight loss, but a balanced lifestyle diet that I can follow for the rest of my life, that I never feel hungry while doing so. [0]: [https://reddit.com/r/keto](https://reddit.com/r/keto) ------ hurbledr No real habits to report, but for anyone interested in sit to stand desks, I found a site that sells them for relatively cheap. I can't personally vouch for the quality of these desks, but as far as I can tell, they are the same sort of thing that office furniture companies sell, only 300-400 bucks instead of 1000-1500. Not necessarily high quality, but functional enough. You do have to assemble it yourself, but anyone with a cordless drill and a bit of sense should be able to manage. There are a couple things that can go wrong, but they are easy to avoid and/or fix. The desk surfaces that come with these are probably a crappy laminate, like sub MDF quality fiberboard. That means that you have to be careful when screwing the legs into the surface, because if your drill's torque/clutch setting is too high, the screw will just spin and blow out the hole instead of fastening tightly. This is easy to avoid though, just set the drill to one of the lowest torque settings, say 1-3, and work your way up if the screw doesn't go in all the way. Also, there are usually plenty of holes on the legs, so if you blow 1 or 2 out, it's not the end of the world. The only other thing to look out for is bad leg motors and/or bad control boxes, which are surprisingly common. No worries though, these things are easy to troubleshoot, and I'm sure the company will get you a replacement in no time if anything is DOA, as it's pretty common. Anyways, my point is, if you don't mind spending around 4 hours of your time to read a manual and put one of these things together, you can save a substantial amount of money. Also, if you don't want a crappy surface, you can just order the legs and add your own surface, although make sure to check that the legs can support the weight. woops, here's the link [https://www.autonomous.ai/smartdesk-sit-to-stand- height-adju...](https://www.autonomous.ai/smartdesk-sit-to-stand-height- adjustable-standing-desk) also, if you're really a cheapskate, you could probably find all this shit on alibaba or something, and save even more money. ~~~ tga Ikea sells electrical standing desks too, available around the world: Bekant, ~$500ish [http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19022530/](http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19022530/) ------ epalmer Been LCHF Diet for 18 months. Last 2 to 3 months used guided meditation/self hypnosis to control hunger and eating. Lost about 47 lbs in those 18 months. Last 3 lost 15. Exercise some and that makes me feel better as well. This past year I have taken to napping 3 of 5 days at work 5 to 20 minutes. I have my own office and I nap during lunch break. Most naps are about 11 minutes long. I always time them. Napping helps my productivity immensely in the afternoon. I can be coding, architecting etc. within 10 minutes after the nap. Oh, I usually drink one coffee or white tea before I nap. ~~~ sharmi Is it possible to provide the link to the guided meditation? It sounds intriguing ------ closeparen Started to get serious about sleeping regular, sufficient hours, coupled with situational changes that made this more tenable. It's night and day. I feel like a completely different person. ------ buzzybee Paying more attention to various natural cycles of mine. Started using a calendar more regularly. Started using mindmapping more regularly. Gradually shifted towards an 8-day cycle for the gym as I found a lot of success with longer rest time in weight training. Experimented with removing coffee for a two week period(somewhat useful). Made attempts to develop habits around cleaning and practice in the first half of the year and am going to reassert those in the coming year as more of a "everyday ritual" that I use to warm up to project work instead of turning on news or social media. Started using fl.ux again after a long break caused by an OS change and laziness, to the benefit of my eyes and ability to be sleepy. I'm most excited about controlling my time and information better. That gets my stress down, which in turn does so much for my health. ------ markovbling My back and shoulders have been hurting more and more (I'm only 27!) and it took me way too long to accept that slouching over my laptop was causing it. Putting my laptop on a pile of books and using an external keyboard and mouse made a HUGE difference and my posture has improved significantly after just a couple of months. I recently bought a Roost laptop stand which is great for travel and looks like spy gear but it is a bit pricey and a stack of books does the job too. ~~~ hundredwatt I had the same problem. In addition to regular exercise, try doing these stretches for once or twice a day: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdNS95hpL-o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdNS95hpL-o) (they are fun too! Perhaps get a group together at your office to stretch together once a day) These exercises work to move your body back toward perfect posture, undoing the damage caused by sitting, typing, etc. I stopped using these in November due to travel. My back and shoulder pain returned. It took about 7 days of consistent stretching for the pain to go away again. ------ jehna1 Started counting daily calorie intake. I use an app called "Lose it!" To track my daily calorie intake and have paired it with Google Fit where I track my weight every day. It has been way harder to eat excessively, as I'm constantly aware that I'm accounting all I eat. So mostly it just makes me aware about what I'm eating. Results: Constant 0.5kg weight loss in every week. A bit aside from the subject, but I also have changed to use paper money instead of cards. I have a weekly budget that I get from the ATM every Monday. This raises awareness of the money I spend, since I can see my current budget every time I open my wallet. It has helped me to save significant amount of money. ------ imartin2k I stopped eating refined sugar (as far as possible) and I quit Twitter. Both made me feel better and less dependent on external stimulation. Positive side- effect: Increased self-confidence about being in control of things that before seemed to be in control of me. In regards to sugar, I know limiting my sugar intake will remain a healthy habit forever. In terms of Twitter, I see it more as a temporary experiment. At least for the moment. ------ tracker1 Not for me, but for a lot of friends, Pokemon Go made a huge health impact, just from the increased walking around... One friend in particular started going to more parks, etc just to walk their trails and get more game play. Kind of wild. For me, It wasn't really a year I pushed myself as much as I could/should. This coming year, planning on going lower carbs again, but also limiting my calories a bit more than the last time. A few years ago, I lost 80# by going low carb, but wound up in the hospital for ketoacidosis. Will have to keep a closer watch on my blood sugar and insulin levels. I've been within 15# of that weight since, but it's been hard. One funny thing (kind of in response to the potato hack post), is that since that year, I really don't care for potatoes by themselves as much (straight mash, or fries), I'll have a little, but a year without added starchy foods of any kind (bread, rice, potato, corn) really changes what you like. I do seem to do better on red meat (even leaner varieties like bison) than I do with poultry. So, ready for round 2. ------ sawmurai No more drinking. Used to waste a lot of time, money and calories. Haven't been hung over for exactly one year now :)) ------ i0exception Waking up before 7 AM every day - I seem to have a lot more energy throughout the day and I sleep better at night. ------ vbsteven I adopted daily meditation exercises and read a lot about stoic philosophy. My mental state is better than ever and I'm sleeping better because of it. ------ BjoernKW (Guided) meditation (using [https://www.headspace.com](https://www.headspace.com) ) ------ Fnoord So without mentioning running, exercise, and yoga and discrediting the change of 2015 (using small brushes to clean between the teeth so I don't have to see the dental hygienist every year) my next step (after very recently having my last wisdom tooth finally extracted, and an infection under a molar cleaned) made in 2016 is to brush my teeth 2 times a day. Including in the morning, when I'm a stressed zombie. I've been bloody stubborn/lazy on this throughout my youth and it is finally time to treat my dental hygiene like an adult should. ------ DrNuke It sounds a given but walking one hour a day, every day, really makes wonder. ------ froh42 I started dancing Zouk. Besides the fact that dancing is fun and good for your soul it greatly improved my posture. ~~~ neuronexmachina Longtime WCS dancer here, recently tried Zouk for the first time. It's fun, I really like the flow of the dance! ------ dvcrn Adapting BulletJournaling. I noticed that everything digital is starting to distract me if I'm not careful. Even if I just go to my mac go check OmniFocus, my brain automatically wanted me to do other things on my Mac at the same time, while I'm already using it. Same for my phone. I discovered the BulletJournal as a fantastic planning tool. Instead of having note apps, calendar apps, todo list apps and so on, I just have my nice Leuchtturm1917 notebook and a pen with me. It's destressing me, allowing me to be more analog and man, I completely forgot how nice good paper can feel. It also helps me a lot fighting perfection and OCD. Every pen stroke is permanent which makes me appreciate mistakes more. Instead of an error, every wrong line gives the notebook more personality. Lastly I was so surprised what a engineer brain can do with simple dotted paper. It's so easy to create new modules and layouts to expand the system further to solve another specific problem. It made me became creative with inventing new spreads for planning my months, tracking my daily habits or just scribbling down all movies I still want to watch. It's a perfect non-digital companion for a digital guy like me and I love it. Just sitting in a cafe without my Mac or phone and reviewing my paper based system started to become a regular ritual that works like therapy. I'm very excited to start 2017 with this little guy in my bag :) ------ Jyaif Measuring my weight everyday on an IoT weight scale. Really helped me lose close to 7kg over 7 month (by eating slightly less, and better food), something I never managed until now. ------ tudorw Standing to work, walking to think, meditation just because... ------ thescribe I started running every day. I try to do mindfulness meditation but frequently get stressed and forget. The running has been amazing. ~~~ Timethy Same! I'm 8 weeks in and already feeling the benefits. I'm 39, 190 pounds and my goal is 170. ------ niftylettuce Listen to yourself more. ~~~ asdfasdfa11112 This, introspection is apowerful tool. ------ drakonka I got one of those kneeling chairs (technically borrowed from a coworker who wasn't using it) and it has been _excellent_. We got these new fancy chairs in our new office and mine was hurting my back even more than our old fancy chairs. Switching to this kneeling chair helped so much - no more back pain. It also has quite a few different seating positions you can adopt if you adjust frequently or are a "seat fidgeter". Upon writing this up I realize this is not actually a habit but a different piece of equipment, it just came to mind in relation to the standing desk mentions. ------ rurban I had to stop surfing, so I started playing table tennis. Five times a week. This and playing Pokemon Go, i.e. walking a lot the extra mile. ------ tomkha I quit drinking coffee and start drinking liquid guarana instead (Scitec Nutrition brand specifically). It's like legal cocaine. I'm using it for morning and early evening boost. ~~~ napsterbr I replaced coffee and energy drinks with caffeine pills. Same (or better) results, no sugar. Question: do you think this guarana drink is more powerful than coffee? It's quite common to see guarana drinks (mostly soda) here in Brazil, but I don't see them as energy drinks.. To be honest, I feel as I'm lacking energy for everyday activities.. Do you or anyone know whether any of these scitec nutrition products (or whey protein, etc) could help regarding energy? Or it's just for building muscles? ~~~ tomkha Guarana energy drinks and (for example Scitec) pure liquid Guarana are two different things, that's the reason I mentioned some brand. You need to try pure guarana. For me it's like 5-coffees at one 40ml shot, few hours lasting effect and no shaking. But be careful, you can overdose pretty quickly (start with recommended dosage on package and gradually add few milliliters each day to find your optimal/maximal dosage). ------ hd4 30 push-ups and 8 pull ups every morning. I've built a noticeable amount of upper body muscle and lost about 1.5st weight over about a year. ------ andthat Started doing Ashtanga Yoga. Opened up my shoulders and chest which got rid of my constant tension headache after about 5 years. ------ ud0 I started running for 30mins every day. I'm not overweight but I've lost a few pounds and I feel much more healthier. ------ jefozabuss I stopped drinking sugary drinks (mostly coca cola) everyday and lately I just reward myself with a small can on special occasions/hitting milestones, etc. I had huge cravings on the first 1-2 weeks but nowadays I don't feel the need to drink them at all. Since then I lost quite some weight and my blood pressure got a lot better as well. ------ emrex I started doing Hijama (cups with complete toxic blood extraction idk if I described it well) every 3 months. They say it has allot of health benefits. The most amazing thing I experienced is sleep like a deer which I was not able to do and wake up with a clear head. ------ fudged71 Gym 6 days a week. Really starting to feel proud of the gains. More confident overall, and a clearer head. ------ msach22 Diet. When I ate unhealthy food and or fast food a lot, I saw a loss in willpower to do things. I think proper diet has a lot to do with how my day goes. It defines my daily discipline. ------ ZeroFries Practicing self-enquiry. The practice is essentially trying to rest in the sense "I am", or simply being aware of awareness itself, rather than the object of awareness. It has drastically reduced mind chatter and anxiety. ------ mckn3 Decided to refrain from caffeine, sugar, and alcohol. I've had an increase in energy, clearer thinking, more restful sleep, and feel better with more positive thoughts than before. ------ AznHisoka 1\. not using my cellphone while in the bathroom and not actually sitting in the toilet unless i was almost ready to 'do business'. 2\. not eating anything past 8pm. ------ tedmiston Counting the ounces of water I drank every day reduced dehydration headaches significantly. There are a slew of apps that offer water logging, but I like Fitbit's implementation. ------ miguelrochefort Ketogenic diet + Intermittent fasting (23:1) \- Energy levels are stable \- Never hungry \- Need to sleep 1h less \- Feel better (less inflammation) \- Fewer migraines \- Weight loss ------ 8a Writing in the morning. ------ Opteron67 being more social and going back to gym ~~~ Opteron67 also eating vegetables a lot and reading HN :)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
UK supermarket chain accidentally introduces 20% discount at 140 stores - jackgavigan http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35025506 ====== steaminghacker sure this was an "accident"?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Webpack 4: released today - thelarkinn https://medium.com/webpack/webpack-4-released-today-6cdb994702d4 ====== exogen Some previous discussion on the GitHub release, which HN incorrectly flagged as a dupe: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16456855](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16456855)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close - peterkshultz https://qz.com/636539/amazon-is-hiring-the-most-mbas-in-tech-and-its-not-really-close/ ====== robterrin As a recent MBA grad of one of the schools listed in the article I would like to note a few things: First, Amazon is 3x the size of any of the tech companies it is compared to. Google actually hires more MBA's per capita and Amazon hires about as many as Apple and Microsoft, per capita. Second, I keep a close eye on these things, and 72% of my class went to finance or consulting. Consulting is still the biggest draw and has been since the financial crisis. Third, this is good news for tech. See the HBS Indicator for more on why: [http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/harvardmba_indicator.asp](http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/harvardmba_indicator.asp) I'm not going to defend or bash the MBA degree. It doesn't say much about you except that you are a competent professional that likes money and can play the game. Those traits are often enough to make an employee worth their salary, but many MBAs have additional skills, analytical or otherwise. Sometimes it means you hire somebody a little too slick. This is probably why tech has such a phobia of the MBA. Fair, but overgeneralizing, in my opinion. Finally, I think the reason you see more MBAs in tech these days isn't necessarily Bezos' finance background or the need for analytics, but that tech companies are maturing and they need middle managers. MBAs tend to be predictable worker bees that do a great job at filling out the ranks of a large bureaucracy. Most business is really about project planning, reporting, managing expectations, coordinating teams and delivering on time. It's not terribly rewarding or creative work, but it's what MBAs can reliably produce. edited typo in last paragraph ~~~ sharkweek I'm not an MBA and don't really have the intention to get one - so pardon my naive question, but what does it mean to "play the game?" ~~~ aslkdjaslkdj His last sentence mostly. "project planning, reporting, managing expectations, coordinating teams and delivering on time. It's not terribly rewarding or creative work, but it's what MBAs can reliably produce." Aka stakeholder and expectation management. The above sounds easy but requires a large number of "soft skills" to do well in a large organization. ------ chollida1 Have a look here at their MBA landing page. [https://www.amazon.jobs/team/university-mba- graduate](https://www.amazon.jobs/team/university-mba-graduate) I know that some people love to hate on MBA's but a couple of things: \- Amazon is a pretty data driven company, if MBA's provided no value, or negative value as some HN's readers seem to think, they wouldn't be hiring them. \- Jeff Bezos worked for a well known hedge fund before amazon, he's no stranger to having MBA's around. \- Most of these MBA's seem to be in operations, which makes alot of sense as one of the largest portions of an MBA degree is how to runa company:) Amazon is also not alone in vacuuming up new MBA grads. [http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-google-amazon-hiring- mb...](http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-google-amazon-hiring- mbas-2017-4?op=1) Whether you want to admit it or not, MBA's provide a lot of value to larger organizations, tech or not. At this point, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Apple have all hired alot of MBA's in the past few years. These companies voted with their cash and made it very clear, MBA's provide alot of value. ~~~ mbesto > negative value as some HN's readers seem to think, they wouldn't be hiring > them. HN's negative criticism is that MBAs don't know how to start things, not necessarily that they can't run things. ~~~ staunch Yes, it's a master's in business _administration_ not business _innovation_. Amazon is the perfect example of where MBAs can be extremely effective. The way Tim Cook helped Apple optimize and improve its operations a great example. ~~~ mi100hael The way Tim Cook Ballmerized Apple into a company coasting on its past success rather than continuing to innovate is a great example of the pitfalls. ~~~ staunch Steve Balmer is no Bill Gates. Tim Cook is no Steve jobs. Not exactly their fault for failing to live up to some of the most impressive founders in history. At least Tim Cook is humble and wise enough to know his limits. ------ amateurpolymath I've taught many MBAs and I can attest to their disappointing analytical skills. However, a company like Amazon already has plenty of analytically skilled employees. What they need from the MBAs are their management skills. I suspect Amazon is particularly targeting those MBAs who have experience with operations and supply chain management experience. At Amazon's scale, even a small reduction in costs is worth the cost of hiring all these MBAs. ~~~ mathattack I would take the other side of this. Not all MBAs have good analytical skills, but I have seen almost no non-technical non-MBAs have good analytical skills. They come with many other things, but if they lack a technical or business background, the odds that they could product a business model is very tiny. I'd say that the MBA is a good predictor in the absence of a technical degree, but you still have to do a lot of screening post-MBA. ------ sulam Amazon is a company that clearly lets the strategists actually implement their strategies. That's working reasonably well for them (with some obvious flops, but more than enough success to make up for it and then some). It's no surprise MBAs want to go there. Strategy jobs are some of the most hotly sought after roles -- my wife went to a top tier MBA program and I regularly have to hang out with people she want to school with. They all either have strategy roles or wish they did (minus the one person in finance -- in the SF Bay Area that's just not as cool as strategy). They also tend (with exceptions) to have egos bigger than big, which seems to line up nicely with thinking that the right job for you is to have the ideas while other people implement them. :) ~~~ rothbardrand This is exactly why Amazon is a horrific place to work for engineers and why they are such a complete failure with products.... for every success Amazon has about a hundred failures (Amazon catalogs online, amazon moving listings, A9, etc.) Amazon throws money at ideas and throws ideas against the wall to see what sticks. AWS was launched as a fraud (using no amazon infrastructure at the time, they claimed it was built on the reliable services of Amazon.com) and became a success.... so long as you have unlimited investor money to burn you can eventually be successful this way. But it is a terrible place to work, because outside of the AWS organization you end up working for idiots. ~~~ colmmacc Amazon engineer here! I love our culture of strong ownership and autonomy, and that we'll take risks, tolerate failures and give things around 7 years to mature and pay off. It's super rewarding to be able to own things and see them through, and to see things like AWS, Kindle and Alexa go big places. I've had my own projects work out and I've had things abandoned, and both experiences have been positive in the long run, if a little painful at the time. As for the AWS thing ... I joined AWS pretty early in its history and even then we had amazon.com workloads and it was definitely the same infrastructure (data centers, network, operations, etc) as Amazon.com . My first two years I was writing code and building AWS services, while also supporting retail operations and dealing with the order pipeline - and I worked in Infrastructure; things were fairly integrated. ~~~ uji I agree with rothbardrand@ here, I recently moved from AWS. Amazon is very top-down where developers are heavily managed by their immediate managers (and thats why they need so many MBAs). Our team of 15 engineers had 4 managers, who would push engineers to the edge to meet deadlines. From what I observed, this leads to very high turnover rate, and teams with lot of junior engineers who are asked to assume roles of previous project leads. New hires are brainwashed about increase ownership and responsbility. But after some years, they all realize the game and move over to different company. ------ kelukelugames Haha, I live in Seattle and signed up for a dating app earlier this year. Over half of my matches were MBAs working at Amazon. So I have Bezos to thank for my dating life. ~~~ make3 They are male or female? I hope this isn't an inappropriate question ~~~ kelukelugames Women. I was on Coffee Meets Bagel which really should have been named Coffee Meets MBAs from Amazon. The women complained about too many male engineers from the local Seattle companies. I had the foresight to not joke that they were, perhaps, the female equivalent. But I didn't have the foresight to realize some of them knew each other. I learned more about dating this past few months than I had the previous 30+ years. Thanks again Jeff! Edit: want to add one more part. My college roommate was on the same app and we shared a lot of the same matches. But they picked him over me literally every time because he's taller and better looking. :( ~~~ make3 I currently get about zero matches on Tinder and OkCupid, and I've always thought of myself as an atleast ok looking guy. I don't know where I'm going with this ; you're not the worst is what I'm saying I guess, for whatever comfort that can give you ------ legitster A couple of cents: 1\. Seattle is full of MBAs. A lot of them came out of the Microsoft system and obviously got scooped up by the Amazon system. And a fair share of them are "executive MBAs'. They had some non-business degree and went back to school as part of the management grooming process. UW has one of the top programs in the country for this. 2\. A four year business degree on its own is a pretty lousy education for making any impactful business decisions. I would say that an MBA is worth more than the equal number of years in the sales trenches. ------ beastcoast Interestingly Amazon doesn't offer any incentives to get an MBA if you're already working there. No tuition reimbursement, raises or promotions. You're more valued as an external MBA hire. ~~~ colmmacc I know I'll sound like a cultist, and I am, but I earnestly pitch to people that working at Amazon is an opportunity to get a free MBA. People now realize that Amazon has been doing dev-ops for a long long time, but we've also been doing BizDevOps. If you want to, as an engineer, as project manager, as any role really, you can step up and get deeply involved in the business. It's never not your place. As engineers, we can talk to customers, we can help decide pricing, more than that even - we can think about pricing as a technical parameter that can be used to influence the design of the system, we can choose the service name ("CloudFront" and "Route 53" came from team whiteboard sessions with beer and Chinese take-out). We can write the proposals for products, and so on. Now as a senior engineer, this year I contributed heavily to 3 different organizations strategic plans. No-one stopped me! I've learned a _lot_ about business from our business review meetings, everything from relevant legal matters to how a P&L really works, how marketing works, and more. ~~~ UK-AL Unfortunately companies hire based on things that are easy to verify. MBAs are easy to verify. A software engineer claiming to things that mba knows is hard hard to verify. ------ agoodthrowaway I honestly believe MBAs suck the lifeblood out of a company. I was at an event for Microsoft Ventures and I was the only engineer there. I had never had so many conversations where the content contained so many syllables and yet had no content whatsoever. The vast majority of these people had product responsibility at Microsoft. I left with the impression that Microsoft simply was overloaded with these people, most of whom understood nothing about technology. In companies I've worked at, these people routinely demonstrate the inability to see and respond to innovation. I've yet to see how an MBA brings value to a tech company beyond a basic understanding of accounting principles. ------ saosebastiao > Amazon managers often prefer to employ MBAs over someone from a traditional > background “because they value the deep analytics and fresh perspective of > an MBA hire,” she wrote. Considering the "deep analytics" and "fresh perspective" MBA managers I worked with and saw everywhere at amazon, I'm surprised anybody who works there could say such a thing. Deep analytics means nothing more than squinting at reports that other people created and pretending to understand, while fresh perspective means to treat every problem exactly the same. It's a hive mind of people who think they are quantitatively intelligent because they know what _bps_ means. ~~~ allritenow As a former operations manager in multiple Amazon warehouses I completely agree. Out of all of the "Pathways" managers I worked with, maybe 10% could effectively manage their people, shift, and metrics. Most hid behind their laptop and prayed that someone else would take care of the "hard" problems like talking to someone not hitting their rate or making quality errors. Their "deep analytics" knowledge meant nothing when running an operation. ------ clairity many of the comments here conflate the MBA degree with their perception of the degree holder. that's understandable, but i'll repeat that the educational content of the MBA degree is quite valuable (e.g., yc's startup school present a condensed version of that content). on the other hand, being overconfident, out of your depth, mistake-riddled, ambitious, and all of those other perceptions are just part of the general human condition. engineers and executives and artisans and small business owners and more all have those failings (if you want to see them as failings-- there are multiple perspectives). i'd say it's our duty as humans to do our best to understand the person in front of us rather than rely on these short- circuited, imagined archetypes sitting in our heads. ~~~ agoodthrowaway Sorry but I disagree. The most valuable part of the MBA is the accounting bit. This can be learned by smart people OJT. It's valuable to study cases but you don't need an overpriced MBA for that. The rest is mostly horseshit. Source: 20 years building technology businesses. In my view an MBA is good if say you work for a paper towel company and you're trying to decide how many paper towels go in a roll. That's something you don't need the big brains for but you need someone who understands simple P&L. I can't for the life of me understand why a person with MBA is almost automatically considered "leadership material" at some companies, particularly technology companies. ------ arcanus Does this mean devs are more likely to be reporting to an MBA at AMZN? ~~~ cachemiss No, generally you report to a former engineer, even up to a VP level in most cases, in AWS its usually former engineers until you get to s-level. edit: those people may have ALSO gotten an MBA ------ mbesto My understanding (from multiple sources) is that culturally speaking, you basically need an advanced degree (MBA, Exec MBA, etc) in order to reach a certain level of management at Amazon. ~~~ saosebastiao Not entirely true. I met a few former Brigadier and Major Generals at high levels within amazon (you can consider that snark if you want). There's still a wall though at the VP/SVP level where advanced degrees basically become meaningless. You either need to be close friends/confidants with every single person above you (and by that, I mean across the board, not just direct reports), or you need to come from a C-level position from some other public company. ~~~ rjsw Don't senior officers in the US military need advanced degrees anyway ? ~~~ saosebastiao Some can and do pursue advanced degrees, but of the handful of generals I've met, most don't. The most interesting exception was a brig who spent his entire career in SOCOM, most of which was literally on the ground with troops, weapon-in-hand. Of course his PhD and 4 post-docs were in Military Science and Military History. He got fired from Amazon for calling an SVP a cunt for not wanting to be seen working alongside wage employees. He went on to start a security contracting firm, which probably was a better fit for him anyway. ------ paulsutter The number of MBAs seems related to the number of products for each company. Also, Amazon and Microsoft are focused on operational excellence (do more and more stuff, focus on process), whereas Google and Apple are focused on a strategy (do fewer things, differently from the competition). Operational excellence is MBA-intensive. ~~~ gareim Operational excellence sounds like Apple's forte to me. ------ didibus Who else should they hire for business and administration roles? ------ jrs95 This might be the strongest evidence that Amazon is in fact The Evil Empire of our times	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Why Underscore is awesome - mostlystatic http://www.codereadability.com/why-underscore-is-awesome/ ====== smhg While underscore is indeed widespread, don't let libraries keep you from thoroughly understanding JavaScript: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4anAwXYqLG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4anAwXYqLG8)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Are “progressive” tech companies actually narcissistic? - throwaway9281 In the past few years I've realized I was raised by narcissistic parents and since then I've started to wonder how much the tech companies we work at have in common with them.<p>For example, my parents made it seem like our family was very special, and I was lucky to be a part of it, because most other families suck and this one didn't. The reality is most families don't suck nearly to the extent my parents claim, and in fact our own family sucks way more than they claimed.<p>We say so often that traditional, boring industries are awful to work at. And that we're lucky to be working where we do. But in reality what I'm beginning to see is a bunch of CEOs/executive teams taking advantage of young adults who don't know (yet) what it means to have work-life balance and who are yearning to be a part of a community. So while the tech industry says "we don't hire old people because they're too far behind the times and we need to disrupt them", it's more like "we don't hire old people because they won't let their work-life boundaries get stomped on and they aren't going to enmesh their identity with their workplace".<p>Another example is my parents laid out expectations very poorly. I often had to second-guess what they said and try figure out what they really wanted, and it felt like I was walking on a minefield. A similar thing happens at these tech companies when they say flexible hours, flexible vacation, and flexible "you can choose what you want to work on".<p>So I propose this as a topic to debate: We think the tech industry is progressive and we have a lot to teach other industries but the industry is actually regressive and destroying traditions that benefit employees. ====== meiraleal I think the tech companies you are thinkg are liberals, not progressive. You are free to give your "soul" to them and the benefits are clear. They are not progressive per si: they don't invest in growing their collaborators just for that fact, but to get return from it.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Wix Code - dna_polymerase https://www.wix.com/code/home ====== jszymborski Man-oh-man did that take a while to load... You can always tell you've landed on a wix site when you're faced with blank screen for a while. Edit: 10MB... this page is 10MB. [https://i.imgur.com/uAoc05H.png](https://i.imgur.com/uAoc05H.png) ~~~ WhitneyLand But who cares? I don’t think their users do, and Wix is growing. Everyone here is disgusted by it because, it is in fact disgusting from the perspective of a developer. I spent a few hours with with wix earlier this year while needing help a family quickly get a funeral site up they could hopefully have some chance of maintaining themselves. Getting started is actually pretty slick. The designer software is easy to use and gets a basic decent looking site up extremely fast. Towards the end of the few hours I was hitting roadblocks left and right. Artificial limitations, edge cases not supported, things that could have been fixed on a real site trivially. Still, what they’ve built, what it in turn allows pretty nontechnical people to build quickly, is impressive. I think it may have been possible to do better on performance and flexibility without compromising for other users. My guess is it’s not mostly because they are just not obsessing on that part much. ~~~ flukus > But who cares? I don’t think their users do, and Wix is growing. Do Wix users even realize? If they're building their own website then they probably have enough of the javascript cached that they don't realize the performance issues. For other end users though, they care, they just don't know what's wrong or they can't articulate the problem. They think their computer is getting to slow, or the networks bad, or they have a virus. They'll use vague terms like that because they don't know there's 20MB of javascript running. If a wix site is slow then they're more likely to blame MS or dell or their ISP than to realize wix is the problem. ~~~ mercer I've found that many users of Wix and (shitty) Wordpress themes don't care, and are very happy to get a site for a fraction of the cost to get it made 'professionally' (or free, if they just do everything themselves). I've also found that there's been a steady uptick in clients who are having some success with/through their site, and who suddenly _do_ start caring, for all the reason that we are all aware of (performance affecting SEO, bad mobile experience, the 'visual page builder' not being able to do what they want, etc.). While it's not always fun work, I do think there's a huge market there for 'people like us'. I'm not sure what a good analogy would be in other businesses, but perhaps it's a bit like someone with a limited budget starting a cafe with IKEA furniture, finding success, and now having both the need and (some) means to actually buy furniture that can handle the demands of cafe use. And that's not even considering the huge number of potential customers whose Wordpress site got hacked and who need a solution _NOW_. What I like most about this situation is that it's not even entirely bad. Perhaps sometimes it _does_ make sense to start a bar with IKEA furniture because the chance of success is so small. I honestly tell many potential clients to not bother paying me for a good, fast site because all they really need at this point is a decent-ish Wordpress theme or Wix/SquareSpace site. EDIT: I'm not saying Wix specifically would be an option I would suggest to clients. My experience with it hasn't been too good, and I'm sure there's similar and better options. ------ eropple Database: some proprietary key-value thing. No performance descriptions. API documentation that looks written for people who are dimly familiar with APIs. "Dynamic Pages": whatevery CMS-ish CRUD frontend. "User Input": forms that dump data into that database. It doesn't get better from there. This is even more of a lock-in trap than Wix (and its similar competitors, like SquareSpace) usually is. These people want to _own_ you and whatever you're making. Avoid. ~~~ ioquatix When I see "tables" from a "database" in a web browser, I have a good laugh. I know it's not that impressive but our smallest non-trivial "table" has 100,000 records and our largest over a billion. Good luck trying to use a web UI to manage that. Parse was like this too - and they had a 1000-record limit in their APIs. Good times. ~~~ flukus It seems like just about every javascript table library I come across expects the filtering, ordering and paging to be done client side after retrieving all the data. The make for some nice looking demo's but then I have to explain to management (or other devs sadly) why things are so slow. ------ eranation On a side note... tried to use their beta sign-up page. Form looks very pleasing to the eye, but, sorry to be that guy, it's all sorts of terrible. What annoyed me first was that the tab structure of that form was all broken, instead of going to the next field, it just went to a random field down the road. It also was not responsive, it felt almost as if someone just dragged and dropped it on a visual form designer or something, you see where I'm getting at. I hope that form was not built with Wix Code. * A quick look at the HTML confirms, all fields and labels seem to be positioned absolute, each. Might be a good workaround for an MVP form builder, dragging on a grid and using absolute positioning is the easiest way to develop a visual form builder I guess... (although I think a tabindex property would have solved the tab issue, and a simple algorithm sorting divs by top / left would have been able to do it automatically, but this is just MVP). Maybe I'm wrong, maybe nice HTML doesn't matter, maybe they can fix the tab stop problem, maybe responsive forms are not important to most customers. But everything I was taught is wrong in a web form exists in the form that asks me to sign up for a beta to a tool that builds forms without coding. Maybe this is the way to MVP... maybe that form was built by an intern. Maybe accessibility is not important for a beta (or maybe I'm the only one pressing tab when filling forms) but this just reeks bad web design practice all over it. *EDIT: Yep, I guess it was, at the bottom it says: "This Website Was Created with Wix Code". Maybe the genius idea was just to build a fixed grid, forget responsiveness, and solve 99% of the problems of a WYSIWYG editor. All in all they built an MVP and I'm just ranting on HN, so perhaps they are onto something... ~~~ jlg23 I once ported a site designed in wix to plain html/css for a friend. Advice from the bottom of my heart: Wash your brain with soap after looking at the markup wix generates. Sandblasting might also be an option. ~~~ dom0 Sandblasting doesn't actually work that well with soft, spongy materials. ~~~ fencepost > Sandblasting doesn't actually work that well with soft, spongy materials. Is the markup Mythos-level bad? If so, sandblasting might still be appropriate. ------ stevenjohns Wix is a terrible company filled with some of the most incompetent people. Once I reported a notorious scammer who was using their platform to their support team. I provided tons of information (including investigations from the press) and explicitly told them not to pass on my details. That was actually a precondition before I had revealed any information, and they ensured me that they will not pass on my details. What do they do? They treat it as a DMCA request and give the scammer every single piece of information they had on me (which included my phone number). I woke up to a voicemail on my phone from the scammer saying he's "going to find you motherfuckers" and "kill all of y'all". After asking why the hell they did that, they basically told me to piss off and denied doing anything wrong. ~~~ Can_Not Do you think wix would be legally liable for sharing your personal details to a malicious actor? ------ suyash Staying away from this service due to their horrible Terms and Conditions. Read carefully before you sign yourself up for something you might regret later on. In short: All your code and IP belongs to WIX. [https://www.wix.com/code/home/terms-and- conditions](https://www.wix.com/code/home/terms-and-conditions) \-- AS IS from their T&C --- By participating in the Beta Stage, you hereby assign to Wix without any additional consideration, all right, title and interest to your Feedback and all proprietary rights therein, including, without limitation, all patents, copyrights, trade secrets, mask works, trademarks, moral rights and other intellectual property rights. You acknowledge that Wix retains ownership of all right, title and interest to the Wix Code, including without limitation, its design and documentation, derivatives and versions thereof, and all intellectual property rights therein and thereto (including without limitation, all patent rights, design rights, copyrights and trade secret rights). If requested by Wix, you agree to execute and deliver any documents, statement, instruments, recordings or filings deemed necessary by Wix to protect and preserve its right, title and interest in and to the Wix Code under applicable law. \---- ~~~ kevindong "to your Feedback" Pretty sure that just means that if you submit feedback, that feedback becomes property of Wix [0]. From a laymen's interpretation of that paragraph, your content remains your own. \--- The second paragraph sounds pretty standard for a SasS company. \--- [0]: They explicitly define 'Feedback' in their T&C as follows: > In consideration of the non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license > to use the Wix Code granted to you by Wix subject to the terms hereof, you > agree to serve as a “beta tester” of the Wix Code and to provide Wix with > useful input on the Wix Code, including on any problems, bugs, failures, > deficiencies and other challenges you may have encountered while using the > Wix Code, and other input and ideas you may have on how to improve, enhance > or upgrade the Wix Code, or any other feedback you may have and deem > relevant (collectively “Feedback”). ------ __bjoernd Unfortunate naming from a German perspective. 'Wixen' translates to 'wank/jerk off' here... ~~~ Zekio well luckily it is probably based on the surname Wix which is based off the english word "Wicks" ~~~ tyingq There doesn't appear to be much of a story behind the name. _" Back at the beach, the three brainstormed what to name their new company. Staying true to their idea, they had two requirements for the name: they wanted a three letter word that started with a “W” and something that was easy to remember"_ [http://www.rewindandcapture.com/why-is-wix-called- wix/](http://www.rewindandcapture.com/why-is-wix-called-wix/) ------ donohoe I generally avoid Wix like the plague and that seems like a good reason. One more reason: [https://ma.tt/2016/10/wix-and-the- gpl/](https://ma.tt/2016/10/wix-and-the-gpl/) ------ SOLAR_FIELDS Though this obviously isn’t the kind of thing that will appeal to the average HN reader, Wix does appear to be having success in the realm. How many of us have a friend or three that wants to bootstrap a small business but can’t afford proper web design/dev skills and are smart enough to figure something like this out? You might argue to them “learn how to code and do it properly”, but there is a group of people that are a large subset of the above group of which no matter how you try to educate will have some sort of allergy to writing actual code. This product is for them. Side anecdote, in college nearly 10 years ago I had an entrepreneurship professor that singled out Wix as one to watch for a good success story. I guess he was right on that bet. ~~~ coding-saints I think the answer these days should be "hire a programmer". Never would I try and do a profession I did not understand, especially if it had something to do with profit/income. While WIX does have a nice community paying for their WYSIWYG, I would advise anyone to pay an experienced developer to create/maintain their site over doing it themselves. ~~~ Silhouette _I think the answer these days should be "hire a programmer"._ The difficulty with that answer is that the market for web development is becoming bimodal. On the low end, you have the site builder tools: Wix, WP, Squarespace, and so on. These days you have to include Facebook pages in there as well. You can set up a basic online presence for next to no money with these, and in most cases you can buy a reasonably professional-looking theme to make your site look decent for not much more. Of course you're limited to common features and have few opportunities for customisation, but does a web page announcing your local church events really need any more? On the high end, you have bespoke development. Someone like me, or no doubt many others on HN, can build you a site that does more or less anything and adopts whatever distinctive branding you need. However, we're going to charge about as much for an hour or two of our time as the whole thing costs with one of the site builder tools, and your final bill is going to have at least two more zeroes on it to do roughly the same job and probably more if we're doing anything that makes it worth using us in the first place. There isn't much room in between any longer. The days of getting your neighbour's kid's school friend to build your company web site for $500 are gone. The site builder tools have commoditised the low end of the market, and for that kind of money they'll probably offer better results, while no agency nor even any established freelancer is likely to get out of bed for a gig that small. In short, hiring a professional doesn't really make sense for a lot of small business or community web sites any more. Either you need something truly unique and customised, in which case you need the time and money to match, or you're probably better off just using a site builder if you don't have the resources available to do it in-house. ------ jtchang I know lots of SMBs that use Wix. It's a solid platform to get started but can be kinda slow and hard to work with at times. For some background they are an Israeli company and a few years back they opened up a Wix Cafe space out near dogpatch area. It was totally free with a focus around the Wix platform (kind of like how Amazon has AWS popup lofts). It went away I think but the idea was pretty cool. Hell I didn't mind the free space. ~~~ elsurudo I'm sorry... can you explain that second paragraph? What is a Wix Cafe space with a focus on the Wix platform? what are Amazon AWS popup lofts? ------ nickstefan12 If you're looking for a website builder that doesn't load megabytes of JavaScript, lock you in to the platform forever, or feel like a Fischer price toy, check out: [https://www.brandcast.com](https://www.brandcast.com) ------ ertemplin Wow, that has to be the worst website I've visited in a very long time. The page was white for about 10 seconds, the videos were laggy/stuttering, the moving content below the first video had random black artifacts popping up. ------ foota "Home page was delayed by 14ms due to code" _crying emoji_ ------ yoodenvranx I feel kinda sorry for their German sales/advertising team that has to deal with their own company name. "wix" sounds _very_ similar to "wichsen" which is a vulgar term for "to masturbate. I don't think their service will ever be popular over here because of that name. When I saw the title "Wix code" my brain automatically translated it into something similar to "jerk off code". ~~~ dna_polymerase Well they actually try to use that as a marketing gag [0]. "Million people jerk off daily" "Jerking off changed my life." [0]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AKDZmsy5yo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AKDZmsy5yo)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Technical Co-Founders Are A Myth - amorphid http://captainrecruiter.blogspot.com/2010/08/technical-co-founders-are-myth.html ====== arn _"I began the hunt to find a technical co-founder - a software engineer who works for no cash - to help me build MY dream website."_ Shouldn't that be "OUR dream website"? _"You're more likely to bump into a piece of talking bacon riding a unicorn on their way to a leprechaun's pool party than finding a software engineer who will work for FREE."_ Shouldn't that be "for 50% ownership"? Sounds like he was looking for free labor, not a co-founder. ~~~ siglesias Honestly, I used to have the same sentiments as the author (I'll birth the idea, you code it), but the truth of the matter is that no technical person, friend or acquaintance, will feel in their heart of hearts that even 50% is an equitable split of work for the early stage of a tech startup, which is pretty much entirely coding. On top of that many young coders today are actively working on their own pet projects on the side and will feel even less compelled to work on a project that they had little hand in developing as an idea. My solution? Why, learning to code myself, of course! ~~~ enjo And they'd be right. The precious idea is practically worthless, the work to make it happen is invaluable. ------ dillydally In the first paragraph alone there are two huge, billowing red flags. 1\. The author thinks that a technical co-founder is "a software engineer who works for no cash." 2\. The author went through four "technical co-founders" inside a year. My guess is the author was looking for freelance-type work, paying out equity "as if" it were cash (i.e., as a function of deliverables vs. a vesting schedule), and in general was micromanaging the engineers he found. A co-founder is a business partner, not "your" employee. ------ mixmax " _software engineers don't work for free_ " Well there _is_ this strange thing called open source software where I believe people work for free. Jokes aside, I can understand why this guy has trouble finding a technical cofounder. It's all in his attitude. A partnership needs to be on an equal footing with a large degree of mutual respect. Of course it's hard to tell from just one blogpost, but it might be the problem. ~~~ maushu _"Well there is this strange thing called open source software where I believe people work for free."_ Most of the time those people don't work for free, they just decide to release the code they've made with the goal of getting paid. Basically, open source software is not the goal, just a (generous) side effect. ------ danhak Sounds like all of the author's technical co-founders were getting sick of being exploited by a partner with nothing to offer but an idea ~~~ jdvolz I agree and I was pissed off at his tone: here's my rebuttal [http://joshuavolz.com/2010/08/16/business-cofounders-are- a-d...](http://joshuavolz.com/2010/08/16/business-cofounders-are-a-dime-a- dozen/) ~~~ 9oliYQjP Business people that just aren't that good will exploit you by trying to get you to work for free. Business people that are good will pay you for your work and will multiply that investment as their reward. It's amazing how often the latter is demonized (e.g., Bill Gates getting DOS for roughly $100K) and the former is held up as the ideal person to go into business with (e.g., complementary skills). ------ jonknee He sounds like every other jackass on craigslist who wants to find someone he can tell what to do but not have to pay. It's no surprise that he didn't have luck, it's an incredibly unfair proposition. A partnership requires both parties to have skin in the game, you telling someone what to build doesn't qualify as skin. ------ dmor If the idea is so great, I think he should be willing to put some money into hiring a developer to work with him -- and probably shouldn't necessarily call that person a cofounder unless he wants to give them equal say in the direction of the product. I'm a business person first and wannabe hacker second, and I think the thing that is missing here is respect for someone who can do things that you can't. The main reason I've been learning to code isn't so I can eliminate the need for someone who can... I know I'll never be as good as someone who has spent their entire career learning to build software. I just want to speak the language, understand what is hard and when to call bullshit or just how to ask better questions. If you're looking for someone to code up your dream website, go to oDesk or to a friend who needs some extra cash to bootstrap HIS startup. ~~~ techiferous "I just want to speak the language, understand what is hard and when to call bullshit or just how to ask better questions." I'm working for a client who did this and it's awesome. When things get technical I don't have to force it into layman's terms--he understands. He also understands the nature of coding and how some things that are easy to conceptualize can be difficult to code (and vice versa). His decision to learn about programming has made it possible to have a great, trusting relationship with good communication and great results (this is the most productive I've ever been). ------ delano To steal and abuse a quote from Arrested Development, _The mere fact that you call your product a website tells me you're not ready [for a technical co-founder]_ ------ kranner For a minute I was hoping the author was going to suggest that "business geeks" learn programming. But this is what he does say: "You may get a software engineer to start something for you, but they won't stick with the project when it gets difficult. I learned something: technical co-founders are a myth." ~~~ mixmax I've actually been down that very same road - looking for a technical cofounder but finding it hard. There simply aren't that many people that are both smart, get things done and want to do a startup. At least not where I'm located. As a business geek I took another route after thinking about how to remedy the situation: Learn to program. Best decision I've ever made. ~~~ nostrademons More likely, there aren't many people that are smart, get things done, and want to do _your_ startup. There're a whole lot that are willing to jump in for their _own_ ideas. Almost everybody would rather be working on their own ideas than someone else's ideas; that's basically what fuels the startup industry. There're two basic solutions to this: work on your technical skills, or work on your leadership skills. (And remember that leadership isn't telling people what to do, it's making them _want to do_ what you want them to do anyway.) Working on your technical skills is the easier course; it's what I've chosen to do, it seems to be what you've chosen to do, and ultimately it frees you from being dependent upon other people to build your prototype. But working on leadership skills probably scales better, since at some point, you're going to have to work with other people anyway. ~~~ mixmax While I think your post is very insightful the problem for me wasn't really finding someone that wanted to work on _my_ idea, it was simply finding someone skillful that was willing to risk doing a startup. I've never had problems convincing people to work on my (or their..) ideas, but I've always come across people that either didn't know what they were doing or quit when the going got tough. It probably has a lot to do with location and culture. By the way, the added bonus of learning to program is that you'll be in a much better position to judge the merits of a technical cofounder. ------ knodi The problem is that most "business" co-founders think they are better then they really, most of the time they try to ride on the back of the 'tech' co- founder. Lets face it the so called business people are good at BS and in the end its not what you say its what you do that matters. ------ baguasquirrel I'm a fairly technical person (i.e. I can code), and I've gotten other technical people to totally buy into my idea, contribute to it, and "own" it in that sense. But I find that his thesis is still correct, most people need validation of the idea before they will jump into it. In that, he doesn't need to qualify "people" with the adjective "software engineer". The same principle applies to design folks as well. The bottom line is, if you want to make it happen, you better pony up or do the work yourself. If such skills and effort came for free, don't you think someone else would have done it already? ------ japherwocky call me a unicorn then. I wrote/built a startup this spring and needed a biz dev / marketing co-founder. Maybe the author isn't going after very technically interesting projects! ------ jmspring As a technical architect / software engineering type person, I've helped out more than a couple of startups for equity, cash, or a mix of both. Have I done the "co founder" route? No, for two reasons -- first, the risk in focusing on a single idea and hoping for success -- I haven't run across such an idea that I am willing to dive whole hog into; and second, there are two phases to getting a startup going - the initial proof of concept and the engineering behind the actual service. I enjoy both, but the work needed for one is different than the second. At this point, I am always looking for new ideas and interesting startups to help out. However, I am erring on the side of mercenary rather than owner. That is not to say, I don't wholly to commit to endeavors, but the ideas that interest me and the ones that provide opportunity to help out don't necessarily intersect. ------ limedaring Sounds to me like the author originally went in looking for technical chops, not friendship/compatibility. A cofounder isn't someone you throw a project at and expect results, it's a relationship. Compatibility means so much more when you're founding a company together (not just having the other person work on your idea), than technical ability. ------ amorphid I think software geeks can over estimate the ability of others to learn to program well. In my opinion it's better for people to stick at what they're good at. ------ skmurphy If he is running a successful recruiting business it would seem that there would be some kind of revenue share model as a part of the business partnership. The story doesn't add up but it sounds like he had an evolving feature set that was driven by a vision not by a focus on generating revenue he could split with a technical co-founder. ------ Stronico I had someone approach me with one of these "ideas" a while back, I remarked that a finders fee is usually 10% and he got furious and hung up the phone. Then he called back and agreed to the term "finders fee" but then claimed that it was worth 50%. Needless to say I declined. ------ gosuri No Shit Mr. Recruiter Idea Man, no one with a brain in their skull works for FREE. Didn't your mom tell you that? ------ chollida1 > Because software engineers don't work for free Really? I'd say the large volume of open source software suggests otherwise. ~~~ techiferous Because software engineers don't work _on your ideas_ for free, they work _on their ideas_ for free. That explains open source. ------ mkramlich I was not too long ago told by a business guy that it was generous of him to offer me even a small fraction of 1% of some web-based service I would be building. Because he had cash, connections, etc. The problem with that logic (which was not completely without merit) is that while I could build the entire site/service 100% by myself without him, he could NOT do the equivalent by himself. So he needed me more than I needed him. (He didn't need me, literally, but he'd need _somebody_ else to build it for him. So he would have to give that somebody something in exchange.) And you don't actually need a lot of cash or connections to get the particular service in question off the ground. Cash always helps, sure. And connections help, sure. But in theory I could build the entire thing myself, start with 100% equity and control and 0 politics, and then only later when it became useful to leverage industry connections to do bizdev and land sales and affiliate deals, would he become useful to me, and thus at that point it could make sense for me to grant him some equity in compensation. In fact, I feel increasingly we live in a world now where a hacker/entrepreneur hybrid can just go build some web technology or SaaS by themselves in relative stealth mode, retain 100% equity, and then later maybe give up 10% to a designer to make it look purty and another 10% to a bizdev guy, and maybe maybe another 10-20% to a cash investor (and outside cash may not always be necessary or desirable anyway), and the hacker/entrepreneur still retains the largest share and majority control. There are 2 secret ingrediants here, which is probably why it doesn't happen more: 1. the hacker must be really good and talented not just average Joe code monkey; and 2. he must also have business/entrepreneur skills/knowledge. If he lacks either or both of these things he's not going to have the capability and leverage to pull this scenario off. But for those that do, watch out.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: So I'm being let go - 404error After 10 years at my local newspaper (I'm 30 now) I think I will be facing the chopping block in the coming months. I'm nervous, scared, and somewhat excited.<p>Nervous because my whole adult life has been spent in between these walls. Scared because I don't have a degree and at 30 I'm competing with younger, new grads. Somewhat excited because it will force me out of my comfort zone.<p>I got married in June of this year so that adds extra pressure since I am now a provider. Luckily, I dont have any kids, yet, to have to worry about.<p>I've spend the last decade working with HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP and a suite of other tools. I've built banner ads for advertisers, booked online campaigns in various platforms Google DFP, Yahoo APT. I'm a jack of all trades master of none. I've always taken that as an insult rather than a compliment. I hear it as "your mediocre at a bunch of things...not really good at anything."<p>So HN, what advice do you have for a 30 year old who's about to embark on a new adventure? ====== graham1776 The one thing I always tell anyone on the job hunt, which few ever seem to take me up on: Informational Interviews. These are informal "can I take you out to coffee?" talks with people in your industry to see what they are working on, what is happening with them, what is going on in the industry. Every job I have ever gotten is through informal meetings with people I have met through my network (whether its the current newspaper, your friends, parents, relatives, or other). At the end of every one I ask: "Is there anyone else you think I should talk to?" and "Do you currently have any opportunities at your company for me?". Rinse repeat. I guarantee investing in 30 informational interviews will yield huge dividends vs. 30 career fairs, a personal pitch deck, starting a blog, dusting off your resume, or God Forbid: applying to jobs through Linkedin. ~~~ fixxer (I've had really good luck with LinkedIn.) ~~~ dplgk Go on ... ~~~ idoh I've had good luck with LinkedIn. You get a lot of volume, and the quality is not always great. However, it is easy to sort through it and find good stuff. It isn't a big deal to turn down unappealing offers, right? ~~~ dplgk Do you hit up recruiters or stakeholders at companies? ------ lollipop25 > Scared because I don't have a degree and at 30 I'm competing with younger, > new grads. 10 years work experience > fresh grad with a degree that has no idea what lies ahead. You know the ins and outs of companies, the kind of people you deal with, you don't throw tantrums, deadlines are deadlines. > I've built banner ads for advertisers, booked online campaigns in various > platforms Google DFP, Yahoo APT. Yep, experience in different platforms is a huge plus. > I'm a jack of all trades master of none. I've always taken that as an insult > rather than a compliment. I hear it as "your mediocre at a bunch of > things...not really good at anything." I hear it as "I know that much, too much." Being a jack of all trades means you know enough to move around. Your wide range of experience allows you to look for a wider range of jobs. You are more flexible to position change. You are no stranger to being moved across projects, across people, across locations. > what advice do you have for a 30 year old who's about to embark on a new > adventure? \- Read up on the latest trends. Most job interviews will have questions about them (though the job itself may not actually use the latest tech). \- Be sharp, concise and confident in job interviews. I've heard from my co- workers who do the interviews for new candidates. They find resumes good, but they fail candidates because they were terrible at interviews. \- Up the ante. Take up higher positions. You probably make a good project manager with that 10 years around people. ~~~ argonaut I wouldn't be so optimistic about the "jack of all trades" point. The problem there is that, as a generalist, that's one less leg up you'll have on new grads (who are also usually interviewing for generalist positions). ~~~ notahacker Someone with ten years' experience shouldn't be applying for the same jack-of- all trades positions as fresh grads. He should be applying for positions where a few years experience keeping a revenue-generating site going is a minimum requirement. ~~~ 67726e Well there are two possibilities. You can work a job for 10 years but if you learned the duties of the job in 6 months and just went on auto-pilot for the next 9.5 you're gonna be in the same boat as new grads. On the other hand if you learned and advanced in your field over those 10 years, then yes you will be looking for higher level jobs than entry-level code monkey jobs. ------ edw519 Disclaimer: Twice your age and just getting warmed up. _So I 'm being let go_ Congratulations. Being let go can sometimes be a badge of honor. Anyone who has never been let go has never pushed the envelope enough. _After 10 years at my local newspaper_ Wow, that's way too long for anyone, anywhere. Be glad that this is working out that way for you. It's not the 10 years at one place that's the problem, it's all the other stuff you missed by being in that shelter. Now's your chance to discover cool things you may have missed. _I 'm nervous, scared, and somewhat excited._ Change "somewhat" to "very". You should be. _I 'm competing with younger, new grads._ No, you're not and you shouldn't think of it that way. There's plenty to go around for everyone. _it will force me out of my comfort zone_ Good! That's the best way to grow. _I 'm a jack of all trades master of none._ So am I. And it's worked very, very well for me. We have too many specialists and not nearly enough people who can visualize the forest and the trees at the same time. They are the ones who make big things happen. _I 've always taken that as an insult rather than a compliment._ Wrong. See above. _So HN, what advice do you have for a 30 year old who 's about to embark on a new adventure?_ Have fun. Stop worrying. Find something you love and give it a shot. At 30, you're still a baby and you have opportunities that you may not have in 5 or 10 years. This is a blessing in disguise. Treat it that way. ~~~ loopbit Very, very well said. >> I'm a jack of all trades master of none. >> I've always taken that as an insult rather than a compliment. "Specialization is for insects", Heinlein. ------ mike-cardwell I was recently made redundant. I had a 3 month notice period. In that time, I learnt Python and Django and built [https://parsemail.org](https://parsemail.org) using it. I also set up [https://hireme.grepular.com](https://hireme.grepular.com) with a list of my skills. The company who hired me were impressed at my skills list (after they'd questioned me on some of it to make sure I wasn't exagerating). They were also very happy to see a lot of very recent work on Github (parsemail.org). They ended up hiring me for a JavaScript role, even though that was far from the strongest thing on my CV, because they believed I could be effective. So my recommendation is: Be pro-active. Build and learn stuff over the coming months. It will give you more confidence and stuff to talk about in interviews, and it will make you look good. ~~~ goodoldboys Impressive work - but just wanted to say that the FOUC (flash of unstyle content) on your site parsemail is really rough. Cool service though ~~~ mike-cardwell That happens because I load CSS asynchronously. I'm happy with the trade off. ------ wtvanhest There are 3 major steps to getting a job (IMO). 1st) Resume + story. Search google for 'Harvard Computer Science Resume' or 'Georgia Tech Computer Science resume' and use their format. There are standard formats that are widely used for top jobs. You then need to get ready for behavioral interviews. This involves getting a minimum of 3-5 PAR stories ready and to think hard about all the stuff you have done over 10 years. Practice them. 2nd) You need to prep for technical interviews. I'm not a coder, but in my field (finance) there is a lot of material available. I know I have seen stuff about technical interviews here. 3rd) Network. Obviously LinkedIn is extremely helpful for locating contacts. Search for past people from the Newspaper, your high school, any groups you are in. For education, I would probably leave it blank rather than putting a high school on there so it doesn't draw attention to you not having a degree. It will be extremely hard for you to get a job via a career posting. You will need to reach out to friends and ask them for 'advice' and if they know of anyone that you should talk to in their company. Expect this process to take 4 months. It seems like forever, but it will take a while. That will be fine. Once you have your new gig, you will be in an exciting new industry. Source: I just got hired by another large company after a search after shutting down my business. ~~~ smcl Sorry to be a pain but for #1 could you provide a quick example of these? Googling these appears to return a bunch of results but I can't really see a great deal of consistency. edit: I found a harvard guide at [http://ocs.fas.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/hes-resume- cover-...](http://ocs.fas.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/hes-resume-cover-letter- guide.pdf?m=1440001724) but the GA Tech style seems a little more elusive ~~~ wtvanhest I gave a few examples, but as long as you use one from a really good school you won't have a problem. If you decide to use a template from word, you will have a bad time. The biggest error I have seen people make is to use a multi- page resume for non-research job in the US. In Europe I think multi-page is more standard (please correct me if I am wrong). ------ NetStrikeForce It is time to specialize. You say you're a jack of all trades, but you probably have to spend a bit more time thinking about what are you a master on, because I don't believe you haven't become a master on something after 10 years working in the same place. You might not be an ace with HTML or CSS. Heck, you might not even be a great coder (I suck at coding!), but you've probably learned very valuable lessons about how a local newspaper works and how your work could add value to them. Can you remember every time you had an opinion about how to do something and it was shut down by someone else? Do you still think you were right? If yes, that means you think you can do better. What about those ideas you've never shared but still think were great? Why don't you sell this knowledge to local newspapers? You could start an IT consultancy specialized in the newspapers business. You could sell again your services to the same newspaper that just let you go, plus other newspapers in your region. This is my advice without knowing much about you. I hope it helps you in any way :) ~~~ 404error I've ran some ideas past management in the past but working with people who are 20+ years your senior you kind of get overlooked or pushed to the side. Especially in the Newspaper world. For the past 5 years the focus has been on the bottom line and if you have to lay off people to reflect a better number then so be it. It's hard to see this place go down this route when you genuinely believe in the product. Having an informed public is very important but at the end of the day you have to keep the lights on. ~~~ NetStrikeForce So you know the industry, you have ideas that you consider to be very valid and now you even have the time. Maybe you can create a product to fill in some gaps they surely must have? And if the idea doesn't sell, what about some competition? Maybe following a crowd-funded model? I know I'm just throwing random ideas, but hopefully this will spark a light in you :) ------ jnovek If you're going to post on HN that you're in search of a job, you should probably include a way for interested parties to contact you... because I'm an interested party. :-) We (OwnLocal; [http://ownlocal.com](http://ownlocal.com)) works through newspapers and other local media companies. Your domain knowledge would be deeply valuable to us. For what it's worth, none of the stuff you're worried about (too "old", wrong tech, no degree, generalist) really worry me as a hiring manager. We have all those things on our team. If you're interested, pretty please send me a note -- [email protected]. ------ sharemywin I wouldn't wait. It's a lot easier to get another job when you have one. When new HR person asks why say looking for better opportunities to expand my skills...don't bad mouth company or puke company drama. Plus if you have stuff in the pipeline you are that much closer to finding something. ~~~ 404error It's not in me to bad mouth anyone anyway. I will definitely start looking A.S.A.P. I'm lucky because the layoff news isn't going to be disclosed for another couple of weeks so this gives me time to start the job hunt. ~~~ toomuchtodo If you don't have a severance package, I'd immediately investigate unemployment benefits. If you have a health savings account, it can be used to pay for insurance premiums if you're collecting unemployment. Also, compare the COBRA your employer will offer to health insurance you can get on the healthcare.gov marketplace with subsidies (since you won't have income at that point). Check out [https://www.reddit.com/r/hiring](https://www.reddit.com/r/hiring) for possible gigs. ------ mswen 1] Build a capabilities slide deck. Frame this exercise as what you would prepare if you were given the opportunity to do a 15 minute formal pitch of your capabilities to a room full of potential clients/employers. Advertising Agencies and Consulting companies often have this as a section of their pitch decks. This is the "generic" part in which they are telling potential clients why they are generally capable and able to handle whatever will come up in the course of the project and they focus on the people and skills that they think make their agency stand-out while also assuring clients that they have all the "table stakes" covered. The deck will help you with interviews and networking. How do I tell my story succinctly and engagingly? 2] Create an online portfolio website and other mini-sites. Build a portfolio site describing your accomplishments in various projects at your current newspaper job and include URL to relevant page. That portfolio site should also link to 2 or 3 mini-sites that demonstrate various sub-sets of your skills in action. This is helpful because you can just send someone you are networking with a single URL that lets them explore who you are and what you can do. 3] Map out your skills. For each skill: label, short description, depth of experience, breadth of experience, assessment of your skill level, clear path toward improvement, enjoyment level and local market demand. What this map will help you to do is decide where to focus your specialization budget, your time, money and intellectual energy. Ideally you would find a skill where you already have a nice breadth and depth of experience, market demand is at least moderately high and that skill has a clear path forward for improvement such as online courses, great books for moving toward expert status. Of the things you have listed, Javascript stands out as the skill that has market demand and a clear path toward expertise on top of your practical experience. It also has the virtue of being demonstrable. ------ cweagans We've got a number of PHP/Drupal roles open at NBCUniversal. [http://www.nbcunicareers.com/search- results?search_type=crit...](http://www.nbcunicareers.com/search- results?search_type=criteria&country=1&state=all&city=all&keywords=PHP) I've been here for just over a year and it's awesome. Highly recommend applying if you see a job that fits your skillset. ------ debacle > I've built banner ads for advertisers, booked online campaigns in various > platforms Google DFP, Yahoo APT I don't want to make you feel like shit, but the demand for your skillset (media oriented programming) is declining. The main focuses these days are on JavaScript replacing Flash and mobile development, but apart from that any company in the space is only making money if it is overworking and underpaying its employees (which is easy to do when they are young). The money in digital media was cheap and easy for a while, but since maybe 2010 more and more people have been trying to get into the space, because the barrier to entry is so low. This has massively driven down rates. If you're a competent programmer outside of media, you can easily pull down 100k+. If you're in the media space, you're working way more hours and pulling down a little bit more than half of that, in my experience. tl;dr: You need to decide whether you want to stay in the segment of the industry you are in. If you do, you will probably be in this position again in 2-3 years. If you don't, you need to convince someone like me in an interview that you aren't just like every other "WordPress programmer" out there. ~~~ morgante Your experience definitely doesn't match mine. while it's true that media in general is in decline and has a poor wage situation, that's mostly felt on the editorial side. Programmers still seem to be paid quite well, at least in New York. I've never received an offer to work at a media company for less than $100k and have had a few at double that. ------ wglb I would like to add to what graham1776 said [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10759722](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10759722). This is great advice about kickstarting your networking. When I did a retrospective on my career, I realized that the various jobs or gigs that I had were directly related to my informally-developed network. Networking is a bit time-consuming, but it will serve you well in the rest of your career. The other thing I would say (as one who has gone through this more than one time. The actual number of times is a trade secret) is don't delay the start of the search. For example, if they parted company with you on Friday, start working on it on Monday. And it sounds like you have a jump on it already. The other thing to keep in mind is to not spend more than say 30 hours a week on a job search. Despite your relatively positive outlook, it will be quite stressful and it is important to break away from the search activity regularly. Edit: typos ------ ideonexus > I've spend the last decade working with HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP and a > suite of other tools. I think this is all we need to know. You have 10 years experience in web development. That makes you a Senior Software Developer at pretty much every company I've ever worked. I don't think you have anything to worry about skills-wise. PHP is still in high-demand. HTML, CSS, and JavaScript aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Relax. You are in a fantastic position. You will hopefully even get a salary increase with your next job. The local paper couldn't have been paying much. : ) The only concern might be your location. "Local newspaper" makes me think "rural" or "suburban." If you don't live in a city, that might not be a problem (teleworking jobs abound), but where I live (Northern Virginia) I can quit my job today and have recruiters begging me to start somewhere else tomorrow. So just keep that in mind. Otherwise, I hope you will find yourself very happy this time next year in a new career and all this worry will just be a fading memory. ~~~ 404error My local newspaper is the only paper in my city. Our population is roughly around 100K. Unfortunately living in a community where agriculture is the main source of income technology jobs are scarce. The closest city to me with tech jobs is about 1.25 hours away (Santa Barbara). This might be my short term option, until I can relocate somewhere else. Thanks for the advice. ------ tixocloud Regardless of what happens, trust yourself that you have what it takes to make it. Spend some time to think about what you'd like to be over the next few years and most importantly, know what you're good at and what you're not so good at. List 10 strengths and 10 weaknesses and include both technical and non- technical skills. Don't dwell on negative thoughts that tell you that you're not good enough. Sure, people with degrees might have an easier ride to get noticed but it's not impossible for you. Be creative. Make a portfolio. Proactively reach out to prospective employers. Learn something on your own. Take an online course. People who tell you shit like "you're mediocre at a bunch of things.. not really good at anything" aren't worth listening to. Take it with a grain of salt, learn from it but move on. There are plenty of advantages to being a generalist rather than a specialist. But it really depends on what YOU want to do with your life. ------ supernintendo Send your resume / cover letter to as many companies as possible. Probability can be on your side even when the job market isn't. Know your worth, but also be open to using your pedigree as a stepping stone to positions outside of your expertise. With 10 years of programming experience you can most likely learn enough Ruby in a short period of time to position yourself as a more compelling candidate than a Ruby dev fresh out of code school. Consider startups. Smaller engineering teams often rely on interdisciplinary roles due to limited resources. Your role as a "jack of all trades, master of nothing" might actually be an asset to early stage companies. Most importantly, find a healthy way of dealing with stress. Your family is depending you. This is an inherently stressful role to take but don't let stress derail you. Rather, let it motivate you to open this new chapter of you life. You can do it! I wish you the best of luck with this situation and future endeavors. ------ kentbrew I've done what you're doing about five times, and it's always exciting and new. I'm 54 with no degree or formal qualifications of any sort, and am currently responsible for all third-party JavaScript and browser extensions at a strong young company in San Francisco. Free advice: Unless you are planning to specialize in something PHP-based like Drupal, you may want to de-emphasize PHP in your resume and employment history. Start learning Python right now and double down on your JavaScript, since you'll find it on the back end (Node.js) as well as the front end. And never say you're the master of nothing; there is at least one thing that you're the best in the world at, and you have to say what that is and why they should hire you to do it. If you are not already completely comfortable with git and GitHub, now would be a fine time to start by contributing to open-source projects or starting your own. Trust your gut when interviewing; if it feels the place is run a bunch of 22-year-old frat boys out of privileged private universities, it's not going to work out well for you. One successful approach is to look for a situation where women are thriving in engineering roles. Why? Because much of the extra stuff an older individual contributor without a degree will have to do is the same extra stuff that all women face every day. ------ USNetizen I once faced the same situation, albeit with kids and a mortgage. Leverage your development background but get a project management certification and start leading some of those younger grads that will need your guidance. Not only will it offer job security, it could be a rather substantial boost in pay as well. That's the path I followed, prior to becoming an entrepreneur at least - where nothing is ever of any certainty, and, even then, I find myself dealing with it a lot better than I ever thought I would. ------ digitalzombie Shot gun it, applied to everything that is close to your roles. I told two people this when they have no experiences or very little and no degree. It doesn't hurt and they all got jobs now. One is working for Raytheon the other is somewhere else in a hospital hitting 6 fig as Oracle DBA with a business degree. Make a nice resume and put it out to every job and learn from each interview. If you're interviewing a tons of web dev jobs, you will encounter similar questions, so just learn from the ones you fudge up. Never give up. I always thought I'm not smart, but I've worked in the startup industry and most of the time I'm surprise how little my peers know. I've only been to one start up that had a very very good programming team and that startup had the money to spend on very decent programmers. If you're 30 and wanna settle down don't do start up, it's risky as hell and very ton hours. I wouldn't take magic monopoly money of equity and stocks unless you like lotteries. I would go to established company. I did php for 8+ years and everybody thinks PHP dev is disposable compare to other like RoR. RoR seems to get higher pay and stabler jobs imo. I hit my 30 now and I'm going back to school for another skill set, data science (math/stat/ml). Startup burnt me out and it wasn't worth it, I got some exotic skills on my resume, Scala, Python, etc.. but once you hit older. You don't want 70-80 hrs a week, and can be let go any moment. ------ criddell I'm occasionally involved in the hiring process where I work but I don't have a whole lot of advice to give you. One bit of encouragement: newspapers (including local papers) and the people who produce them are still highly respected. You presumably have good communication skills and understand community. In an interview, if you can convey confidence and pride in your accomplishments there's a good chance you will make a good impression and that's half the battle. Regardless of what direction you head off, good luck. ------ cwisecarver My second job was at my local newspaper. Started, I think, when I was 19. I lasted five years. I had html, css, js, and php under my belt at that time too. I was and still am a generalist. I think the current term is Full-Stack Developer though. You should get more experience with other backend languages. Try Python, Ruby, and something slightly exotic like Rust or Scala or Elixir. If you've been there for ten years you've probably gotten comfortable in your stack and your code. Start reading more code. Push yourself to learn something. Get your github up and churning. Contribute to some OSS projects. You've got experience with highly dynamic websites. That puts you head and shoulders above people that only have experience building landing pages or small business sites. It's a whole different beast to build something that has to respond to a random bit of content flowing into a page and all that entails. You've worked with some of the most set in their ways people on the planet, journalists at a local newspaper. I'm 35 now and I've stayed, mostly, in the content space since I started at the paper. That's my niche, rather than focusing on a language or front/backend discipline I focused on content. I've had four jobs since working at the paper and I still remember those days as some of the longest days and most fun I've ever had. I'm now making over three times what I made at the paper when I left too. You can do this but you're going to have to work for it. Edit: I don't have a degree either. ------ kafkaesq _I 'm a jack of all trades master of none. I've always taken that as an insult rather than a compliment. I hear it as "your mediocre at a bunch of things...not really good at anything._ Take it as a compliment that you've been the undisputed master at One Very Important Thing: understanding your employer's needs and priorities, and doing whatever it takes to make them happy. All that other stuff -- HTML, JS, etc -- is but a means to this end. (And despite all the rantings and ravings by people on this and other sites about the various pros and cons of these tools, most of them are basically expedient hacks, here today, gone tomorrow). _Somewhat excited because it will force me out of my comfort zone._ As you should be. Being forced out of our comfort zones is one of the best ways to start learning new things. Sometimes it's the only way. I'm sure that years hence, you'll look back at this as a golden opportunity -- that finally gave you the time and space to think about what you really want to do, travel, get that degree, meet that right person, or whatever. And for every employer that sees you as "limiting" yourself by staying at the same gig for 10 years, others will take it as hard evidence of your capacity for loyalty, dedication, and grit -- scarce qualities indeed, in any talent market. ------ MrApathy Given the shift in your responsibilities over the years it may be worthwhile to take the effort to put together three or four slightly different resumes, each highlighting a different aspect of one of your prior roles. When submitting a resume select the one that most closely matches the responsibilities outlined in the description. Even if you feel like you're master of none, doesn't mean your resume can't have focus. ~~~ chrisbennet This. And even more importantly, a custom cover letter (your email) for jobs where you aren't going through a head hunter. ------ fefifofu I know what you are going through! I was let go in the spring and was married in the summer (I am working again). You need to focus on the excited, adventurous emotions and the confidence it brings, which in turn, will help find you a new job. If you are not confident (eg. believing jack-of-all-trades is a negative, seeing not having a degree as a barrier, thinking a new grad is a better hire than you) then you might not apply to the jobs you have a chance of getting. The nervousness and lack of confidence will come through in the interviews you do get. Others here have provided tips to help: list at the skills you have, put them in a positive light, practice delivering the message in interview and conversational settings. (We all know how much confidence matters when meeting women, same thing.) A lot of things you mentioned don't matter: no degree, being 30 (you mentioned that 3 times), recently married, same company 10 years, being a jack-of-all- trades. They don't matter because you can't change these things in the short- term. They nervousness and pressure they provide just are distractions. None of those impact the actions you have to take going forward. ------ chrisgoman Why "I am now a provider"? You get better odds with 2 people working together towards a common goal [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dink](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dink) Plus being in California, you are in the best place on the planet for your skill set. ------ facorreia Knowing several technologies and tools is a good thing. But you really need to pick one to master. It might be PHP web development (or Wordpress plugin development); it might be JavaScript front-end development; or ad campaign management. Something that you get to know very well, and become very efficient in. ------ mpdehaan2 People understand the straits newspapers are in, so it shouldn't impact your job search negatively. Still, the advice to look now helps - it's easier to say this is why you are looking - because your company is in hard straights, than if you say you were already let go. Not a game ender though. I believe we all underestimate our own skills, but there's a lot of folks looking for generalists. I don't believe in "full stack" development quite so much, but there are a lot of people looking for it. Anyway, 30 is a great age - You're just at the point where you are starting to be very marketable and your experience has built up to a value where you can command a lot more value based on having had the experience of all the things you have done before. ------ JSeymourATL > Scared because I don't have a degree and at 30 I'm competing with younger, > new grads. The degree piece is almost ALWAYS an issue with flunky HR functionaries. Not so much for the Hiring Executive, he's interested in how you can help him move his agenda forward. Target your job search on reaching out directly to senior executives WHO you know how to help. Incidentally, suggest reading Gitomer's Little Red Book- unconventional applications to approaching your job search> [http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/75890.Little_Red_Book_of_...](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/75890.Little_Red_Book_of_Selling) ~~~ pm24601 Not true. Any number of positions that I am looking for _management_ (i.e. the candidate has 5+ years of sw dev experience) specify a BS as a _requirement_. I read this as the filtering software filters out non-degreed professionals. ~~~ loopbit As someone that is 37 and hasn't got a degree, I can tell you that most of those requirements are bullshit. Send the CV, get an interview and prove the interviewers that you are capable of taking the responsibility. And yes, I've been in managerial positions, from team lead all the way up to director of engineering for several multinationals. Most of the positions listed a BS (or even MSc) as requirement. ------ jeremymims At OwnLocal, we like people who understand the news business and have some programming skills. I'd encourage you to look at our jobs page: [http://ownlocal.com/jobs](http://ownlocal.com/jobs) ------ BradyDale Wait, so you're a dev, not a reporter? Where in the world are you? This is an important question. ~~~ 404error Yup, I've held multiple titles here, I'm in California. I started as a Print Graphic Designer, then moved to I.T. Due to more layoffs I then became I.T./ Web Dev. I weathered the storm once again and had my job mutated into I.T. Assistant/ Web Dev/ Digital Campaign Coordinator. ~~~ saluki Will they still need someone to do what you do occasionally? Try to stay on working one or a few days per week or work for them on a contract basis. It is easier to find a job if you are currently employed so hanging on 1 day per week or as a contractor you could list them as an employer or yourself as a contractor. If you're interested and have the skills you could try to pick up some of your own clients including your current employer. Sounds like you have basic skills but will need to spend some time getting to the next level. If you enjoy web development you could elevate your skills by learning web application development front end with Angular or React back end with Rails or Laravel. If you have a few months till your let go you could make some progress learning new skills. You won't be an expert or even employable over that time but the sooner you start learning the sooner you will be. Check with companies in your area and see what skills they are hiring for. If bringing in the same level of income isn't critical you could take an entry level developer position and start working your way up. Play around with some of the popular languages and see what you like, what you are interested in. Good luck. Enjoy the Holidays, things will work out. You're still young, have a good foundation of skills to build on. ------ dustingetz All IT departments now want people with programming skills, and a lot of people who are already in IT don't like programming. I think you will get offers from most IT departments that you interview at. ------ 27182818284 The degree issue is very stick for some places and not stick for others, but overall I think it is less of an issue than in the last 15 years. The best thing you did for yourself was learning the HTML, CSS, etc that you did. That is going to get your resume farther, faster, even without a degree. Having been on hiring committees for organizations looking for new copyrighters, etc, there is such a focus on web that it is always a plus to see, even if there are other developers doing the heavy lifting. ------ clivestaples I was in the same boat not too long ago. I was 38 with 15 years at a school district job as a systems analyst and programmer. I wasn't laid off or let go but I couldn't do it any more. I couldn't do one more Exchange or VMWare upgrade. My advice: go hard! Send out your resume. Leaving my cushy job for the unknown has reinvigorated every part of my life: financial, spiritual, marital, parental. It has been easy but it's been very rewarding. ------ cdnsteve Every industry is fighting over anyone with a tech background. Having experience in multiple areas is more valuable I'd argue. Someone who can manage online campaigns, throw down some html, js should be able to get into pretty much anywhere. 30 isn't old. You have real experience which grads don't have. Go into everything with a positive and learning attitude and you'll do fine. ------ mipapage I went thru a round of something like this, where I had been a developer+copywriter+editor+salesman for en early internet biz. While I have a degree related to my field, I found that the network I had built up over the years, thru sales and communicating with people while editing and fact checking, was the path to my next bit of employment. tl;dr: don't forget that 10 years of relationship building! ------ tmaly There are still a ton of small businesses out there that do not even know how to setup their business on google so that they show up in a local search. Their websites are not optimized for mobile, so they get a penalty both from google and from users trying to use their website. These simple things are low hanging fruit you can easily do. ------ tahoeskibum Being a Jack of all trades can be an asset in a startup, specially in your case for a role in marketing/advertising. ------ tehwebguy Start applying now, it's good to get in the habit and it's been 10 years since you've had to. Take inventory of your accomplishments, make a massive resume even if you only ever share a portion of it. It's very easy to let this all crush you like an avalanche, don't let it. ------ legohead I was let go once from downsizing. I was scared too, but my boss gave me a simple pep talk I've never forgotten: You are better than you think you are. Do you really think that when you start "X" job, that you will be unable to complete tasks given to you? ------ chrisbennet For one thing, don't describe yourself as a "jack of all trades" because that is associated with "and master of none" in people's minds. Instead, describe yourself as a "Swiss army knife". ------ kelukelugames Congratulations! This will be the best blessing-in-disguise of your lifetime. :) ------ zallarak You have an excellent skillset. I think you'll do great! If you run into any hiccups, feel free to email me (see profile) but I think you should do fine :-). ------ lkrubner It sounds like you have the skills to be a good project manager: good communication skills, plus some technical exposure. ------ Overtonwindow Write. A. Book. That has been my backup plan for a decade if all else fails, but ya know what? I really should just shut up and write the book now, while I'm young and healthy. Do it man. Write a book. Throw it up on Amazon. Even if it only your grandmother and mom buys it, you'll still feel great for accomplishing something most people only dream of. ~~~ anonu Ive always wanted to write a book too. But about what? In the face of near- existentialist questions about survival and how to provide for your family, I don't know if this is the best way to focus one's time and energy. ------ imagination create a personal website showcasing your skills ------ orliesaurus freelance consultant works ------ jharohit Serious Advice: \--------------- Freelance (for short term money) & Start talking to media industry specific recruitment consultants(they might charge a fee but with your experience in tech & industry, you might be wanted in a similar outfit) Current-World-With-Weird-Valuations Advice a.k.a. Just kidding: \-------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 1 -> Get a iOS Dev book. STEP 2 -> Start a cool spin on a news app. STEP 3 -> Raise some money at some ridiculous valuation STEP 4 -> Buy the local newspaper where you got let-go from citing the reason as "strategic acquisition" to the investor. STEP 5 -> Order a "F U" t-shirt. STEP 6 -> Buy a paintball gun. STEP 7 -> Do what Ari Gold did in Entourage when he bought the Agency he was fired from.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
News.YCombinator.com stats (according to Google Ad Planner) - rsiqueira https://www.google.com/adplanner/planning/site_profile#siteDetails?identifier=news.ycombinator.com ====== rsiqueira According to Alexa traffic rank stats, ycombinator.com is the top site number 1721 (Global Rank) and 990 (Rank in US): <http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ycombinator.com>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Law ends the need for regulator logos on devices - edward http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30222546 ====== mtmail "E-labelling would be cost-effective, in keeping with the consumer electronics industry's important ongoing environmental sustainability efforts and a beneficial and innovative use of today's technology." I understand the logos are annoying and clutter. But is it really more cost- effective and better for the environment not to print them?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Secure email: Tutanota free encrypted email - based2 https://tutanota.com ====== fitz13 Tutanota is my first e-mail provider since deGoogling. ProtonMail didn't have an integrated Calendar (at that time at least) and was more expensive. Fastmail is Australian which is a non-starter from a privacy perspective. Unironically written from the US. Also, more expensive to use your own domain. Tutanota is €1/mo (billed yearly), lets me use my own domain, has a calendar, and is based in Germany. Since using it, I realized without the Calendar scanning my Inbox and auto- adding flights and trips and birthdays, I don't use it as much. But I also haven't traveled much since March. Definitely worth a look if privacy is a goal, and money is an object. ~~~ nix23 I have to say, i smiled a bit with protonmail (since I'm swiss), but Tutanota looks interesting and much cheaper/fairer 1GB for free is super nice..to put it mildly....maybe i shutdown my own email server someday. ------ throwawaysea How does this compare to Fast Mail or Proton Mail for general non encrypted use? For example how is the quality of their mobile apps, import/export features, etc? ~~~ fitz13 The Android app's good, and available from F-Droid. And the features are solid. There's definitely room for improvement, but no glaring deficiencies in my experience. To be specific though, their roadmap [1] includes "Import External Mailboxes into TutaNota", and I don't use their desktop client, so I'm not sure what export options are available there. [1]: [https://www.tutanota.com/secure-email/](https://www.tutanota.com/secure- email/) ------ bfrog I love my tutanota email, well worth the money. I use it for business only but honestly Id love to ditch gmail for the rest too, tired of the spam	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
For-Profit College Group Sued as U.S. Lays Out Wide Fraud - nighthawk http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/education/09forprofit.html ====== jameskilton "Education Management, which is based in Pittsburgh and is 41 percent owned by _Goldman Sachs_ " Excuse my french but holy fucking shit. Is there anything these scumbags DON'T have their hands in? Energy, Finance, Housing, now we find out about Education. What's it going to take to arrest these people already? How many people have they screwed over in their never ending quest for pure profits? ~~~ gamble The financial industry represents a third of American corporate profits. Goldman Sachs is the most prominent player in the financial industry. Like Britain, the US is quickly becoming simply a hedge fund, with a government attached. With practically no constraints on corporate money entering politics and voters perpetually responsive to political advertising, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for politicians to seriously take on the most powerful, influential industry in the country, by far. ~~~ yuhong >voters perpetually responsive to political advertising Maybe not anytime soon, but perpetually? ~~~ khafra "Perpetually" means "always, continually." US voters are very reliably responsive to political advertising; media campaigns seldom fail to swing opinion in the direction they want to. ------ axiom The problem is not for profit colleges, the problem is guaranteed government loans to anyone who goes to college. This is exactly what happened with the housing bubble. You have a government entity (in the housing case it was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) that's giving out money without any checks and balances. So as a result you get a few amoral businesses who buy up colleges that have regional accreditation and balloon their enrollment with online programs in order to collect the free money being handed out by the government. This shit only works as long as you have a blank cheque issued by the government to anyone who goes to a regionally accredited college. The solution is not to clamp down on the only bit of free enterprise that still exists in higher education. The solution is to let the market price the risk/value of college degrees. ~~~ joe_the_user _The problem is not for profit colleges, the problem is guaranteed government loans to anyone who goes to college._ 1) It is hard to claim that for-profit colleges aren't part of the problem. They clearly have more of an incentive for this kind of a fraud (though other schools might have some incentive). 2) For profit colleges have expanded primarily based on student loans. Without student loans, indeed for-profit colleges wouldn't be a problem but mostly because they wouldn't exist. ~~~ yummyfajitas _They clearly have more of an incentive for this kind of a fraud (though other school might have some incentive)._ Could you explain this statement? Also, many non-profit colleges (including plenty of schools as bad as any for- profit) also would not exist without student loans and other govt subsidies. ------ fletchowns There are a lot of parallels with this and the 2008 housing bubble. The recruiters are just trying to get as many students to enroll as possible, they don't care whether or not the students can actually afford the loans. They are just a bunch of scumbags that prey on people that are trying to get an education. As those jerks are making money hand over fist, tuition at state run universities is going up like crazy, even as they are having to cut tons of programs. I hope the US government cleans them out. ~~~ cheez Actually, the US government is helping them out. Guaranteed loans? I'll take 3 please. ------ papa Frontline had an interesting documentary on this industry a year or so back called "College Inc". If I remember rightly, they even discussed one of the schools named in the suit, Argosy University (along with a lot of hard-sell tactics and high student loan default rates that accompany the for-profit industry). It was an eye-opening program. Here's the link if interested: <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/> I think Netflix also has the episode available for online streaming. ------ mathattack Any time you have a massive government subsidy to an industry, people will eventually line up to scam it. In this case, it's a shame because there are a lot of innocent bystanders who get scammed. In addition to the taxpayer footing the bill by providing lower cost loans, people graduate the schools with worthless degrees. I am a big fan of charter schools, and in theory support for-profit colleges, but I wish I had more data points on where they succeed. Perhaps there will be a collegiate disruption similar to Khan Academy.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
“Be yourself” is terrible advice - iron0013 https://theoutline.com/post/7142/be-yourself-is-terrible-advice?zd=2&zi=bs5kvbni ====== Cypher Terrible if it doesn't work	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Watching Songkick Demo At Y Combinator - paul http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredwilson/1063095836/ ====== champion That's the north cambridge office. The photo makes it look more drab that it is. It has this funky 2nd floor kitchette thing -- looks like Fred took the photo from teh stairs going up to it. ------ parker Just a quick thought: does YC provide any presentation coaching before DD? I can't think of one topic that sends people into fits faster than public speaking! IMO, it's a skill that should be practiced as much as possible, but real opportunities are rare... ~~~ rms My best tip for public speaking: speak loudly. Don't scream, but it makes you stand out and seem incredibly confident if you're just speaking louder (more loudly?) than everyone else. This, of course, takes a certain amount of confidence to do. ~~~ Goladus Personally I'd recommend "deeper" (if possible) and "more relaxed" before "louder." At least, that is what you want for an English-speaking audience. If you're loud but your voice is nasal or shrill then you may have the opposite effect. A deep, relaxed, resonant voice conveys the assurance and confidence you're looking for. People associate it with maturity, wisdom, and masculinity (Think Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones). People associate a shallow, shrill, nasal voice with a whining child. Most people can also recognize tension unconsciously. The key to speaking with resonance is slow, relaxed, deep breathing (sort of like Yoga breathing). This has the nice side effect of helping you stay relaxed. ~~~ rms That is definitely good advice, the loud thing doesn't work if you're uncomfortably tense. ~~~ Goladus The word my vocal directors always used for what I think you mean is "project." (As in "project your voice to the back of the auditorium") A quick google turned up: <http://www.paulmason.com/Support.html> <http://www.paulmason.com/Resonance.html> ------ blored keep 'em coming, it looks like they are in pg's basement, nice. ~~~ portLAN Oh my gosh, now that you mention it, it does look like when Cartman has secret meetings in the basement. ~~~ rms with more expensive folding chairs ------ palish What's Songkick all about? The title sounds cool.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Driverless trucks used at mines to slash costs - billconan http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-18/rio-tinto-opens-worlds-first-automated-mine/6863814 ====== twsted "The first two mines in the world to start moving all of their iron ore using fully _remote-controlled_ trucks have just gone online in Western Australia's Pilbara." Yawn.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
No-Code vs. Pro-Code: A New Hope - ochiba https://journeyapps.com/engineering-blog/no-code-vs-pro-code-a-new-hope/ ====== nkingsy I’m currently in the process of converting a no code product to “pro code“ per their definition, and I agree with their intentions here. Many of these efforts in the past (including the team I’m on) lump opinionated libraries in with what I call secondary programming languages. Opinionated libraries can save everyone a lot of time, as long as they are programmable and allow easy access to levels below, as well as further abstraction upwards. Throwing a new programming language into the mix interferes with abstraction traversal and stack traces in a devastating way. ~~~ matharmin There is a huge advantage to using an existing language (JavaScript/TypeScript) like this, compared to creating new DSLs. There is simply such a big ecosystem to leverage in terms of development tooling (auto- complete etc), existing libraries and existing libraries. ------ sgt We have been using Journey's platform for years. We use it across multiple countries and tens of thousands of users. I can't recommend them enough. ------ pbiggar Firm agreement about the goals! Over at Dark ([https://darklang.com](https://darklang.com)), we've been referring to the space adjacent to Low/No-code as "Just code", to indicate that there's only code there and nothing else. Would be curious what other languages/frameworks the JourneyApps folks would include in "Pro-code"? ~~~ razorjaws Good question and we also resonate with "Just code". OXIDE at its core is built on-top of a radically new framework we architected called Reactor which allows us to build desktop-grade software in the web (such as OXIDE), which we then used to craft the ultimate experience for the Journey ecosystem. Apps built on Journey are currently developed using Javascript or Typescript but because of the highly modular nature of our tools and platform, we are going to start supporting more languages in the near future. ------ arauhala I wonder if you are familiar with the predictive databases? We at Aito.ai have gotten lot of interest from different RPA/no-node users and providers, and predictive database queries seem like a best intelligent automation. [https://aito.ai/blog/could-predictive-database-queries- repla...](https://aito.ai/blog/could-predictive-database-queries-replace- machine-learning-models/) It would be interesting to deeply integrate predictive functionality in your system, especially as it integrates a DB naturally. This could be used to offer predictive functionality from the plarform out of the box. ------ bilater IMHO if you want to attract no-code users you need to change your site branding. It's very 'engineerish' aka probably fine for the crowd on HN but not on Indie Hackers. Look at Webflow/Airtable/Zapier and take inspiration. You're going to have a hard time resonating with that crowd. They like bright colors. ~~~ ochiba Thanks for the feedback! We are focused on software engineers rather than no- code users. ~~~ bilater gotcha - best of luck! ------ razorjaws Hi I'm one of the architects behind OXIDE. Feel free to AMA ~~~ ogre_codes I'm a bit confused here. The article starts out talking about no-code software development and the advantages and limits of no-code software, then lays out a bunch of principals including things like using an OSS stack. Then at the very bottom drops what looks like a complicated TS development IDE with some bolt on tools (which appear to be for-fee/ non-OSS). Who is the target market for this? What kind of app would I write with it? Since Could I build up an OXIDE stack myself and make some apps for my friends? About the only use-case I can see here is enterprise app development and personally, I think tying yourself to a vendor Platform-as-a-Service solution like this is a bit fraught. ~~~ razorjaws Hi there! So OXIDE is interesting in that it has what we believe are the best of the typical low-code tools, but integrated in a way that the developer can easily transition to and fro into typical pro-code development. The screenshot on the homepage shows a plethora of the various tools and features that OXIDE has, but the IDE can easily be configured for low-code or pro-code development independently. Out of the box we provide some default workspaces that cater for the typical paradigms of software development on our platform, which are not as complex as in the screenshot. Regarding the OSS, we deeply integrate it into the IDE effectively removing most of the configuration and complexity required to make it all work well together. ------ secretsinger Obligatory: Can you hook it up to GPT-3 and an email address, so a client can just email in a feature request and get it added automatically?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
P-hacked hypotheses are deceivingly robust (2016) - soundsop http://datacolada.org/48 ====== eganist The words "deceivingly" and "deceptively" have the same problem: there's a roughly 50/50 split in polar-opposite interpretations. [https://grammarist.com/usage/deceptively/](https://grammarist.com/usage/deceptively/) In this case, does "deceivingly robust" mean they look robust but are fragile? or does it instead mean they look fragile but are robust? This isn't a criticism of you, soundsop. Rather, it's intended to keep pointing at how difficult it can be to concisely deliver a message. \--- edit: sounds like the correct interpretation of the title is _" P-hacked hypotheses appear more robust than they are."_ ~~~ comex Huh. I'm skeptical about that article's dichotomy of "deceptively" meaning either "in appearance but not in reality" or "in reality but not in appearance". I think the most common usage of "deceptively X" is, more broadly, "X in a way that deceives you". That includes "X in reality but not in appearance", but it also includes "X in reality _and_ in appearance, but deceiving you about something else". For example, they used this quote as an example of "in appearance but not in reality": > It’s no mystery why images of shocking, unremitting violence spring to mind > when one hears the deceptively simple term, “D-Day.” [Life] But the term "D-Day" _is_ simple. It's deceptive because it might wrongly lead you to think the event it refers to is also simple. Similarly, if something is "deceptively simple-looking", it really is simple- looking; it's just not _simple_. ~~~ eganist Mate, I don't know; I'm just going with all the research and linguistic warnings I've read on the word. [https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3500](https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3500) [https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/25/deceptively/](https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/25/deceptively/) [https://www.academia.edu/37488247/The_Deceptively_Simple_Pro...](https://www.academia.edu/37488247/The_Deceptively_Simple_Problem_of_Contronymy) Shoot, even oxford gives exactly opposite definitions of the word. [https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng...](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/deceptively) \--- I mean, even when I saw the title of the thread, I had an _obligation_ to click (clickbait I guess?) because I could have interpreted the title as either a warning about p-hacking _or_ an attestation in favor of the practice. In fact, on first glance, I read the title as "P-hacked hypotheses appear less robust than they actually are." ------ bsder Basically, if you take a p-hacked hypothesis and attempt to use it _predictively_ , it falls apart. That's kinda ... useful, actually. It feels like this is sort of the same issue with overfitting in ML. Attempts to use ML results predictively often fail in hilarious ways. ~~~ peignoir Yep, that s also how science works: it predicts the future based on a model. Quick trick to know if it s a science or not: if it has the word science in it it’s not. (Eg social science) ------ ncmncm P-hacking is a fine way to winnow through ideas to see what might be interesting to follow up on. There will certainly be false positives, but the real positives will usually be in there, too, if there are any. Determining which is which takes more work, but you need guidance on where to apply that work. To insist that p-hacking, by itself, implies pseudo-science is fetishism. There is no substitute for understanding what you are doing and why. ------ bjterry > Direct replications, testing the same prediction in new studies, are often > not feasible with observational data. In experimental psychology it is > common to instead run conceptual replications, examining new hypotheses > based on the same underlying theory. We should do more of this in non- > experimental work. One big advantage is that with rich data sets we can > often run conceptual replications on the same data. I think actually relying on "conceptual replications" in practice is impossible. If the theory is only coincidentally supported by the data, that makes the replication more likely to exceed p < .05 coincidentally in a very difficult to analyze way. The author mentions that problem, but doesn't mention a bigger issue: If you think people are unlikely to publish replications using novel data sets, just imagine how impossibly unlikely it is for people to publish failed replications with the original data set! If you read a "replicated" finding of the same theory using the same data set, you can safely ignore it, because 19 other people probably tried other related "replications" and didn't get them to work. ------ lisper This problem is going to get more severe as available datasets get bigger and bigger. The more data you have to mine, the more likely you are to find something that looks like a signal but isn't. ~~~ knzhou At some point, social science must switch to tighter p-value cutoffs and corrections for multiple comparisons. These are the norm in particle physics, which dealt with and resolved exactly this problem back in the 1970s.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: What do you think about cloning startups? - brserc Let's say a startup company is offering a service to other companies in U.S. and becomes succesful. I want to do the same work they do in U.S. in France.<p>Both in legal and ethical terms do you think this is a good thing to do? ====== olivierduval Ethical? Not a business term... juste forget it if you want to succeed... ;) Legal? Well... it's all about (international) patents. Is the business of the startup patented? Or even patentable? Seem not realistic (but some folks patented the "one-click-buy button")... Will you copy the tools or methods (that are more easily patentable... but need to be patented "worldwide"... ;) )? Or can you try something more "french" ? All in all, your problem will be to move faster and be better for your market than teh startup you're copying. Because they will come if they succeed, sooner or later. Good luck :)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Smart Bedding – Never Make Your Bed Again - hajrice http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/marshallhaas/smart-bedding-never-make-your-bed-again ====== rdouble In Europe and Japan nobody uses a top sheet in the first place. ~~~ ianterrell I dated a German woman for a while. Took just a few nights at her place to convince me the top sheet is worthless and I was doing it wrong my whole life. ~~~ rdouble The other thing Germany gets right with bedding is a smaller duvet for each person on the bed, instead of sleep-fighting over one bigger duvet. ------ xauronx I have a problem with people who say things like: "Never make your bed again", and then at some point say "Then when you make your bed, it's just...". You're still making your bed, just perhaps removing one step. I wish them the best of luck, and hopefully at the very least they get some nicer sheets onto peoples beds. ------ rblatz I like my sheets tucked in, and half the time I don't use my duvet, it's just too hot. And I would still have to make my bed, pulling the top sheet and the duvet up takes like 5 extra seconds. I agree that bedding could use improvements, but I think it will take more than attaching the top sheet to the duvet to fix it. ------ voyou A $10,000 Kickstarter for a problem that could be solved by just not using an unnecessary extra sheet in the first place! The blurb claims that washing a top sheet is easier than washing a duvet cover, which it isn't (I have alternated over the past ten years between using a duvet and duvet cover, and a top sheet and blanket, so I have extensive comparative experience of the comparative laundry difficulties of the two); and that the two layers give you extra options depending on the temperature, which this system prevents by attaching the top sheet to the duvet cover. Also, it appears to use those crappy plastic clasps that lose their shape after two washes. ~~~ ollysb Yes, I came here to check and see if it was some kind of satire. Being from the UK I'be never heard of a top sheet and couldn't imagine what benefit it would give you. Also, would it not get crumpled up in the night as you move around? ------ Nate75Sanders I use a top sheet and I've never had any serious problems with it running away from the blankets on top. Additionally, I don't tuck it in. I find using a top sheet _vastly_ superior to not using one, as it's far easier to wash sheets than it is to wash bulkier blankets -- they fit in the washer and dryer better. Whatever is touching you directly should be washed frequently and it's much easier if that's just a sheet. ~~~ vidarh The typical alternative to a blanket + top sheet is not just a blanket, but a duvet with a duvet cover, that is just as washable and not much different from "just a sheet". And the bonus is you don't need to do anything to prevent it from bunching. ------ yesimahuman The solution for me is to not use a top sheet at all. Is there something wrong with that? Honest question. ~~~ R_Edward Depends: the sheets (whether fitted and flat, or two flat with one tucked under all four corners and one lying above) are there to provide an easily- washable envelope within which to couch your body while sleeping. While we sleep--and occasionally, when we use the bed for something other than sleep-- we produce a certain amount of refuse: sweat, sloughed-off skin, hair, drool, etc. The sheet envelope can be pulled off and tossed into the laundry to remove that stuff--and its associated visual and olfactory attributes--from the sleeping environment. It's troublesome to haul the mattress out in the yard and hose it down, and even harder to stuff it into the dryer afterward; and some bed coverings (heirloom quilts, down comforters, etc.) cannot be readily laundered. As long as you have _something_ washable between yourself and those elements of the bedstack, you're probably fine. On the other hand, if you're romantically inclined, and the person with whom you would like to recline romantically is turned off by how your bed is stacked, well then, yes, you're doing it wrong. ------ nhebb I liked tucked in top sheets. My idea for this (which, of course, I never implemented), was to make a top sheet with a pocket at the end that slipped over the mattress - no more pulled up top sheet in the middle of the night. ------ bifrost It seems like a neat idea, but I like tucking the top sheet in :) Maybe if they had a way to tie the top sheet to the fitted sheet? ~~~ solarmist Yup, there's two different camps, loose top sheet or tucked in. They should have two different designs. ~~~ muuck There is a third camp, never heard of a top sheet until now. I belong in this camp and am wondering what I've missed all these years. ~~~ solarmist The top sheet keeps your blankets and comforters clean; its much easier to wash a sheet than a blanket. If you buy a bedding set they usually come with two pillow cases (for queen and king sized beds or one for smaller) and a loose and fitted sheet. ------ fnordfnordfnord That's not smart bedding. It's just being a clever human. ------ baggachipz Joseph Ducreux over the bed. I wonder if that guy's single? ------ smiddereens Top sheet? ~~~ R_Edward AKA flat sheet, which is really a more descriptive term, as it usually does not go on the top of the bedding stack. I don't see how tacking the flat sheet to the duvet cover helps--yes, it keeps the sheet from getting wadded at the foot of the bed, but you lose the ability to throw off the duvet and keep the flat sheet over you in the middle of the night. I guess I could unsnap the two pieces, but that takes somewhat more consciousness and cognitive skill than I generally possess while sleeping. In order to do it, I'd have to rise further out of slumber, which would be a less-desirable outcome than having to pull up a sheet in the morning. Maybe people who thrash about so violently that they wad the flat sheet into a ball at the foot of the bed are so light-sleeping that they'd hardly notice the slumber-level change necessary to affect the coverage shift. On the other hand, I'm really digging the idea of a flat sheet with a pocket, to keep it well-tucked while deployed. Kickstarter me _that_ and I might invest.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Intellisult: Insult people intelligently - roundfounder http://intellisult.com/ ====== ableal _"[...] is a lamentably cretinous miscreant and a primitive armpit-licking mass of neuroses and pathologies."_ _"[...] is a sickly backward scoundrel and a belligerent toe-sucking piece of excrement attached to a dogs posterior."_ I sense a pattern. Not filching from the classic quotations, such as " with much to be modest about", then. ------ ari_elle If this catches on and becomes _really big_ , imagine future Youtube Comments! :D _Feedback:_ -) could see something like this in the form of a smartphone/browser app where users could insert these statements directly to e-mails / short messages / instant messaging (if gold mine, i am glad for a cut ;) -) maybe additional features like praising someone, etc (especially as an app it would deliver to little without more features)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Podcast – Rise of Educreators with John Danner - desheltn https://anchor.fm/dashboard/episode/ehheup ====== desheltn I think anyone invested in the future of education and learning should check this out. John shares multiple insights from his journey from advertising to education, to how he things education is changing in a post COVID world	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Better Ways to Read Hacker News - greg_a https://hackerbits.com/hacker-news/improve-hacker-news-ui/ ====== jwoodswce Interesting read. I might sign up for the "Hackernews by email" ~~~ greg_a That's what I was thinking too	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The $20M Buenos Aires Bank Heist - weare138 https://www.gq.com/story/the-great-buenos-aires-bank-heist ====== atymic This is the kind of journalism I love. Long form, wrapped in a gripping narrative! Also, props to GQ for the lack of a paywall!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Human or bot? - nmelssx https://www.chatwithibot.com/ ====== HoopleHead Wow! —that's so bad, it's almost genius!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Obama Launches Competition for Three New Manufacturing Innovation Institutes - on3dprinting http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/05/09/obama-administration-launches-competition-three-new-manufacturing-innova ====== dmix Canada has a ton of these types of public-private investments in technology. Attempting to mimic the productivity of market capital investment in technology; in order to bring some sort of meritocratic process to spending the money. But even with that structure, it never seems to produce anything interesting. It ends up with highly beurcractic money distribution institutions such as MaRS [1] (which is high criticized in our tech scene) where money primarily goes to lawyers and high paid ex-industry executives. Aka non-entrepreneurs. There's a big lack of accountability and money still goes to those who have friends higher up in the semi-public institutions. Aka the friends of the ex- industry executives they hire. [1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaRS_Discovery_District> ------ vonskippy Like most government "partner" projects, this one will most likely end with the big corp sucking as much free money from the feds (i.e. us the taxpayers) as they can, then after the initial domestic project is built out, they'll dismantle everything in the States and ship it off to the part of the world that has the cheapest labor pool. The rich get richer, and the taxpayers get shafted once again. ------ troymc "...a model based on approaches that that other countries have successfully deployed." I think they're referring, mainly, to the Fraunhofer Society for the advancement of applied research, which started in Germany, but now has centers in other countries (including the US). <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraunhofer_Society> ------ bmmayer1 No one has ever satisfactorily explained to me how the government can "invest" in something. ~~~ chad_oliver The government gives money to some organisation, event, or person. That money is an enabler which allows the recipient to achieve more than they otherwise would have. The government gets a return which is (hopefully) greater than the initial outlay; this return may be in the form of money or it may in the form of more intangible benefits such as higher productivity. What's not to get? ~~~ bubblelamp Is this like all of that "investment" that Obama did in green energy, that just happened to primarily go to his largest donors? ~~~ vwinsyee No, my understanding is that most investments are in the form of (1) grants, e.g. by the National Institutes of Health, to public or private entities that can perform research toward a particular published goal, and (2) loans, e.g. by the Department of Energy (DoE), also to either public or private entities toward a particular goal. For example, in 2009, the U.S. DoE loaned Tesla USD465 million as part of the $8 billion Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program. About the 'largest donors' part, I think that bit's quite overblown by the conservative media. For example, though I'm not sure if Tesla had any Obama connection, it was held up as an constant example of wasteful spending through the 2012 election and until it had its first profitable quarter this year and paid back its loans early. ------ huertanix The defense tech example mentioned in the article is compelling, but I think the most exciting thing that will come from 3D printing is the ability to print non-organic materials to build materials in space, where transportation logistics are a little more complicated than shipping stuff across the Pacific. ------ zimbatm So how is that money actually spent. Is it going to go into corporation pockets and create new patents or are they going to help us build new printers by publishing the specs ? ~~~ acadien It sounds like the 5 institutes mentioned at the top are able to put in proposals for projects that oriented towards the goal of each of the 3 individual institutes. Also there's this: "Federal funds will be matched by industry co-investment, support from state and local governments, and other sources." Also to answer your question, from what I understand DOD and DOE scientists generally publish whatever isn't deemed classified. But then there's this: "Like the pilot institute, these Institutes are expected to become financially self-sustaining" I can't imagine a research institute becoming financially self sustaining without licensing patents, unless they're going to start producing and selling devices themselves. ------ temphn No real revolution in 3D printing will come from the US government. It is busy trying to chase down CAD files for 3DP guns. It will likewise try to chase down CAD files for medical devices and pharmaceuticals. It will fail, but it will waste a lot of money in the process. Want to promote 3DP innovation? Rather than blow millions on manufacturing institutes, we should just tell Beth McCormick[1] in DDTC[2] to stand down and stop harassing[3] Defcad, the real innovators in 3D printing. Because heavy- handed enforcement of ITAR by USG will just drive 3DP overseas, just as it has driven satellite manufacturing overseas [4,5]. [1]: <http://m.state.gov/md137729.htm> [2]: <http://www.pmddtc.state.gov> [3]: <http://www.exportlawblog.com/archives/5050> [4]: <http://www.exportlawblog.com/archives/3837> [5]: [http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post...](http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=1006)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A Push for Open Source Biology from Merck Boss - ltimmerman http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/03/02/harnessing-the-crowd-to-make-better-drugs-mercks-stephen-friend-nails-down-5m-to-propel-biology-into-open-source-era/ ====== aneesh I hope something good comes out of this effort. But from my previous experience with biological data & biological research, I'm a bit skeptical. There is so much competition for grants & publications that researchers are sometimes reluctant to truly share data & help others build on their work. ------ hendler A commendable effort and idea. Thanks for posting here. Genetic intellectual property will be an issue for years it seems. Economic pressures will hopefully force openness and innovation. Patent law needs to catch up in biology as much as it has been in software. This is directly related to open sourcing your medical records really, since medical records of the future will necessarily contain oodles of genetic information. ------ kqr2 There isn't too much on their main web page, however, the about page describes their objectives: <http://www.sagebase.org/about.html>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Altera's Secret Processor Unveiled: a Quad-Core ARM Cortex-A53 - rbanffy http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1319935&itc=eetimes_node_193&cid=NL_EET_ProgrammableLogicDL_20131031&elq=8f9b1617db444809bf1cac376e20c796&elqCampaignId=2136 ====== jwise0 As far as I can tell, the AArch64-ness of these parts is only half of the (very exciting!) story ... the _really_ interesting thing is that these are being manufactured on Intel's 14nm FinFET process. To date, I didn't think anyone was doing FPGAs on Intel's process except for Achronix, and they're relatively low-volume... so high-volume FPGAs (and with ARM cores, no less!) on a leading-edge Intel process is truly astounding. These will be ghastly expensive parts, that much is for sure, but they have the potential to be _really_ fast. I've always been a Xilinx user, but I will absolutely give credit where credit is due here: Altera seems to have pulled off something pretty remarkable. I'm excited to see what performance is like when these actually show up. ~~~ FullyFunctional There's also Tabula. Amusingly, both Achronix and Tabula claims to be the first [FPGA] vendor on Intel's fab. ~~~ hershel Have anybody used tabula? What is their pricing/performance levels? Is their marketing true? ~~~ carterschonwald I do know that they have Conal Elliot and that he's been exploring compiling Haskell to their space time architecture. Though I gather that's still a ways off from being for general consumption ------ lambda I wonder how much more successful FPGAs would be if you could actually write your own compilers for them. As of now, as far as I can tell, none of the major FPGA vendors actually document the actual format of their programming. You have to use a compiler from them to compile a netlist down to the raw bytecode that's actually sent to the FPGA to program it. This means that there are many potential uses of an FPGA that you just can't do. For instance, you can't write a GLSL shader compiler that compiles down to an FPGA on the fly, or compile OpenCL to an FPGA, or add a language extension that compiles certain highly parallelizable statements in your language down to an FPGA. It seems that FPGA manufacturers are missing out on an awful lot by not actually opening up their hardware to experimentation by third parties. Anyone know why exactly they act this way? ~~~ jwise0 You can write the tools you describe on top of any existing tool stack -- you'll just have to use the hardware description language as an IL. (Indeed, many tools already do this.) You could write your own synthesis front-end and place-and-route back-end, but they're not like any compilers you've ever seen before. (A recent Coursera class [1] went into pretty good detail about how synthesis and place and route work.) I think that the unfamiliarity is probably why there are no Open Source toolchains for it. For Virtex-II platform, Xilinx provided a tool to edit bitfiles, called JBits [2], but it seems to be well and truly dead[3]. [1] [https://www.coursera.org/course/vlsicad](https://www.coursera.org/course/vlsicad) [2] [http://www.xilinx.com/labs/projects/jbits/](http://www.xilinx.com/labs/projects/jbits/) [3] [http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Virtex-Family-FPGAs/Question- abo...](http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Virtex-Family-FPGAs/Question-about- JBits/td-p/33215) ~~~ lambda Sure, you could use tools that target the HDL as an IL, if you wanted to write that code yourself and then ship it to your customers as a binary blob, as their HDL compilers need to be specifically licensed, and aren't, as far as I know, something designed to be used as a back-end component in shipping software. But that limits its usefulness for something like, say, writing a GLSL compiler so you can use your FPGA as a GPU, and are then able to run arbitrary GLSL code on it. I agree that it's definitely a much different than writing a compiler backend for a CPU. You are definitely going to have different abstractions that will apply well to it. But that's fine; that's what I'm interested in, writing a compiler for a very different kind of platform. The problem is, as far as I can tell, they don't document their actual bitstream format, so you must use their licensed tools any time you actually want to compile something new for the FPGA. And that precludes a lot of use cases. ------ ChuckMcM As the author points out in the comments these are targeted for "high end" applications like crypto processors. I've got one of the Zedboards [1] and I really like the basic board, but damn if it isn't nearly impossible to set up with Xilinx tools. The Quartus tools from Altera are a bit better but they too have their quirks. I keep hoping pg will get a chance to fund a startup that is doing the HDL equivalent of PHP :-) [1] http:://www.zedboard.org ~~~ selimthegrim I know these guys just applied to YC: [http://tempoautomation.com/](http://tempoautomation.com/) ~~~ frisco I don't think that a robot like Tempo Automation's is the issue. We have low cost cncs and pick-n-place machines, and more importantly places like sierra circuits. The harder problem is, like ChuckMcM described it, an easy to use high level abstraction over the hardware to simplify and accelerate the design process. Fabbing a board isn't the hard part. ------ joars Wow, am i mistaken here or are we witnessing the shift to an computing landscape where fpga's with hardcores like arm are the de facto standard vs asic's of today? And will this remove xilinx from the throne of fpga market leader? ~~~ hershel This chip will probably cost $8000 or more. equivalent asic's will cost much less.And yes,the problem with ASIC is the higher development cost(NRE), but companies like baysand and especially easic offer low NRE chips with performance/price close(r) to ASIC. The nice thing about those companies, is that this low NRE and possibility to do low volumes , might open ASIC's to startups and niche applications. One such example is VMC that builds bitcoin mining chipsets using easic. ------ subway I can't help but wonder how much this would have impacted Bunnie's laptop design if it were available when he began work. ~~~ bryanlarsen I don't think Bunnie would contemplate replacing a $10 CPU and a $20 FPGA with an integrated one that costs $4K - $20K. :) ~~~ aortega Zynq, the Xilinx equivalent of this cost from 50 u$s up to u$s 4000. Also the Zynq was already available by the time Bunnie started his project, that's why I never like it. ------ warble how well does a DSP mine bitcoins? ~~~ wmf Poorly now that Bitcoin ASICs exist.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Foiling Electric Boat - punnerud https://candelaspeedboat.com/ ====== thatcherc This looks like a lot of fun, but I'm wary of its safety. Foiling boats (at least the sailboats) have a tendency to come down _hard_ off the foils if not sailed exactly right. That's why you'll see helmets worn by sailors both on big foiling AC72s and F50s as well as a the single-handed Wazsps, Moths, and UFOs. The deep V profile the Candela's bow looks like it would handle dropping off the foil or hitting a big wave pretty well, and the 100 Hz foil control loop is reassuring, but my experience on little foiling sailboats would keep me cautious on one of these for a while. However, getting a boat to pop out above the waves is such an amazing feeling that I'd take a ride on one of these in a heartbeat (just maybe with a helmet!). Some foiling sailboat crashes for reference - \- [https://youtu.be/875yq0-ogwo?t=20](https://youtu.be/875yq0-ogwo?t=20) \- [https://youtu.be/frAkDEszgZc?t=26](https://youtu.be/frAkDEszgZc?t=26) ~~~ Candelaboat You hit the nail on the head here. Safety is a key question that often comes up in discussions that we have with customers, and is of course a key focus in the development of the Candela model range. As you mention, the deep V hull cuts waves pretty well, but we also have algorithms monitoring the position of the boat in 3D space, looking for signals that indicate a treacherous seastate or an unfavorable position of the boat. This means that we won't do the nose dives that you see in the sailing videos. Be sure that we have landed unexpectedly quite a few times to get to where we are! :D To sum it up, when you are accustomed to flying with the Seven and you know where the limits are in terms of wave handling, then it's no different from riding in a regular boat in choppy seas or high waves. Unruly seas require alert sailors, in all types of boats. We're publishing a short video soon, purely focused on running through waves from large passenger ferries. Sub to our youtube to know when. ~~~ jfindley What are the limits in terms of wave handling? How well does it stack up to a large rib in rough seas? ~~~ Candelaboat Open waters on a windy day or the day after a windy day can be hard. Check out our videos from the Caribbean and a comparison with an 8 meter aluminum boat in a choppy archipelago condition. Can we foil in every single wave height there is? Abosolutely not, but our boats outperform regular boats in comfort in weathers where you'd normally bring out your 8 meter daycruiser/open boat. It's also worth remembering that in rough seas, you can go down from the foils with no issue. You just cut the efficiency down to regular boat levels... ~~~ MayeulC Hi, that's a really interesting boat concept. Even if not foiling, can you still take the boat out with, say, beaufort 8-9 weather? That's more similar to what I was expecting in the "high waves" videos, and is not unusual to encounter when commuting or spending the day elsewhere, depending on your area (obviously, it starts being unpleasant if you want to spend the day _at sea_ on a speedboat). Edit: now realizing it, but your target market is probably only going to go out with calm weather in protected seas, given the price point and finish. I hope that sort of product will get mainstream at some point. ~~~ mstade Let's just be honest, you're not going out in Beaufort 8-9 kind of weather with this size boat, foiling or not, unless you have to. I have a boat larger and likely more capable of taking on rough seas than the Candela and I will avoid those kinds of winds if I can, and only really go out in that kind s of weather if I must. ~~~ MayeulC Yeah, you are right, I was mainly thinking about swell, which can sometimes be quite important, while local wind isn't particularly strong. Beaufort scale is more a wind scale than a swell scale, my apologies for using it. I don't think big waves are that problematic to navigate with a speedboat if the period between two waves is long enough, but I don't think foiling would work with that kind of sea. Since I used to live in an area where such conditions were relatively frequent, I was wondering how well the Candela could handle them. My boating skills aren't that fresh anymore, despite living on one during my childhood, and spending a good chunk of my youth close to the sea. I might thus misremember or exaggerate things, but I am fairly confident of the above. ~~~ mstade You're not wrong, but also the minimum foiling speed for this particular boat is listed at 17 knots. If you're navigating a speed boat through rough seas at 17 knots you're a braver person than I am for sure. :o) Below that it seems to me like it behaves more or less like a regular boat. Regardless, I'd probably avoid speeds above 10 knots if I found myself in relatively high seas, and I'd just avoid going out in that kind of boat altogether if I had the option. If you do find yourself in that kind of sea though my experience is that most swells tend to come from one direction so you can find a good bearing surf the waves, zig-zagging if need be. Adjusting speed as need be is crucial in rough seas for sure. It does have a reasonable draft without the foils extended it seems, 1 meter, and at 2.4 meters wide it seems like it could be pretty stable actually. It'll be interesting to see once my buddy gets his delivered. ------ jfengel And here I was wondering what it was they had against Electric Boat[1]. Maybe they want to disrupt the submarine-builder market? [1] [http://www.gdeb.com/](http://www.gdeb.com/) ~~~ SkyMarshal That was my first interpretation too. Was relieved to find Electric Boat isn't being foiled by anything. ------ cjlars Do these things need to be drydocked? We have very fast and aggressive bottom growth where I live, race boats get cleaned every few weeks, cruisers develop a bit of sludge that turns into a full on boat bottom salad pretty quick. ------ dharma1 [http://q-yachts.com/](http://q-yachts.com/) is also worth checking - not a hydrofoil but a beautiful (though expensive) electric boat ~~~ mstade Any idea how expensive? Asking for a friend.. :o) ~~~ munificent Keep in mind that purchase price is a smaller fraction of the total cost of ownership for a boat than for other kinds of vehicles. Marina, maintenance, etc. are much higher recurring expenses compared to, say, having a weekend sports car that just sits in the garage most of the time. Just because you can _buy_ a boat, that doesn't mean you can _afford_ a boat. ~~~ mstade Oh believe my I know, I've been a boat owner for the past few years. Boats are money pits, no doubt, but also a lot of fun. The feeling of going out early in the morning in calm seas, as the sun is rising – it's hard to beat and makes you forget all the work and money involved in having those moments. Obviously it depends on what you're going to use the boat for, but for me personally it's all recreational. Boating makes me happy, and as much as I'll cuss and swear every time I have to do maintenance and upkeep I still think it's worth it. I'm sure you know the old adage of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life: the day you buy the boat, and the day you sell the boat. Still, we never learn. :o) ------ Bubbadoo Does look like fun, but let's face it, 50 nautical miles is nothing on the water. I guess if you're on a lake the just under 60 mile range is enough to water ski but it's definitely not suited to deep water. And all carbon fiber, must cost a pretty penny. Great idea, hopefully battery technology innovates to give products such as this one a more practical use case. ~~~ jcampbell1 I’ve done plenty of fishing 40 miles offshore in NC on a boat this sized. I can’t imagine anyone riding 80 miles in the ocean for “fun”. It is 5 hours of suck to catch fish. 60 miles seems like more than enough for day cruising. That being said, this boat is a total no go in NC due to draft... day cruisers have skiffs and sandbar parties. ------ generatorguy After seeing the foils finally catch on in water sports I have been wondering why there are no foil boats. Great to see someone has made it happen! I don’t do enough miles a year boating to care about the minor amount of fossil fuels I burn. I would be really interested in the foil tech with gas powered outboard. The foil boat must be must much more fuel efficient with a gas motor? ------ kbenson So, if my napkin calculations on minimal Google searching are any indication, you get about half the range as you'd get in the 240 Bowrider (50 vs 100 nautical miles), which honestly seems pretty good. I'm not sure how much worse the efficiency is at lower speeds though, and there's almost always lower speeds involved for extended periods as you move through no wake zones. Additionally, emergency capacity might be an issue (an extra fuel can isn't really possible), and if you do run out of power, it's not like someone could offer one or bring one, you're really looking at a tow, from what I can see. Very cool though. Note: I used this[1] for some quick info on what kind of fuel efficiency the bowrider got at different speeds, and used fuel tank size to estimate range. 1: [https://betterboat.com/average-boat- speed/](https://betterboat.com/average-boat-speed/) ------ kumarvvr Would this work if there are weeds or big fishes in the water? The foil would get damaged pretty quickly, before actually killing most of the fish it comes into contact with. The concept is very very old and well known. So there must be practical reasons why this was not commercialized. ~~~ Candelaboat Weeds can be an issue, unless the foils just cut through them. Taking off in a weed heavy water can be tricky, just like operating a jetski, a jet boat or a regular prop boat. It is true that a fish wouldn't fare too well either when hitting the leading edge of the foil, which is submerged to about 0.7 meters. However, the foil can take quite a beating. Regarding commercialization, which is a great question in itself, our experience tells us that it's due to: 1\. It's hard to build controllable foils, especially in a "miniaturized" size like a 8 meter boat. 2\. the technology to enable sufficient speed of electronic foil control hasn't been cheap nor good enough prior to the advent of consumer drones & smartphones. ~~~ kumarvvr As an electrical engineer, I'm intrigued. Do you actually control the angle of the foils during travel? Is it to maintain a set height or change height too. I know that too high, and the boat becomes unstable. I know that retracting the foils is a simple thing, relatively speaking. However, if you are actually controlling the foil angle, isn't the technology available for decades? I mean there are cooling water pumps that change the impeller vane angles during operation at 400 - 700 RPM, there are helicopter blades that change angles, ship propellers can also change angle during operation, etc. There are many examples. What technical problem have you specifically overcome in this case? ~~~ Candelaboat Great question. What's different in our case is that the flight controller captures the boat’s movements from 7 sensors. Then it establishes the full- state 3×6 state matrix (position, velocity and acceleration with regards to position in x, y and x and rotation around the same axis). This is partly done using sensor fusion algorithms. We then use the outputs to control the angle of attack, along the longitudinal axis of the foil, essentially twisting it. The R&D that has gone into making this work reliably enough for a consumer product is our secret sauce. ~~~ kumarvvr I have a lot of questions and doubts, but I guess this would not be the best place to ask them. Anyway, congrats on the product. It feels awesome. ------ JacobDotVI Does anyone know what their current status is? Their FAQs haven't been updated in over a year: >How many boats have you delivered? >As of March 2019, we have delivered 10 boats to customers in Sweden, Finland, Austria, the US and the British Virgin Islands. >When can you deliver? >We still have a few production slots available for deliveries for the summer of 2020. Scroll down and go to the order page to reserve one. ~~~ zackkatz The video reports they have delivered 12. Not exactly producing at scale! ~~~ gpapilion There are very few boats that’s hit high scale production numbers. They are often custom, and the market is much smaller for higher priced boats. 12 is lower than I would have thought, sub 100 a year isn’t surprising. ~~~ cptaj Yeah, most boat manufacturers in the world don't hit mass production numbers. Fiberglass is relatively easy to work with requiring very little tooling investment. You can also easily "clone" other boats by taking a mold of the hull. This means there are A LOT of mom and pop shops making amazing boats all over the world. 12 boats for these guys seems pretty good to me. Its very unproven technology and boaters don't like that. The sea is a rough environment and most wil prefer tried and true solutions with long supply chains for parts and service. ~~~ MikaelCandela The boat is actually not fiberglass, it’s all carbon fiber. That’s why it’s so light - the hull is just 230 kg. A similar glass fiber boat would be 900 kg. ~~~ fock how do you intend to fix and cracks and similar things coming up over the sustainable lifetime of such a recreational article (probably spanning several decades)? ~~~ jiofih Carbon fiber doesn’t crack like fiberglass. ------ tedhallez Imagine going through a NO WAKE zone at 35 mph ~~~ spurgu Generally wake size isn't a factor in "No wake" zones, they're instead enforced through speed limits. :( At least in Europe. ------ fred_is_fred Thanks to our wonderful English language and the use of title case, I thought this headline was about countering or circumventing (foiling) the Electric Boat company - a manufacturer of submarines. The boat is cool, but I was hoping to see some anti-submarine warfare stuff here. ~~~ fsckboy same, but I thought it must be about underbidding Electric Boat on a contract, and at a glance I thought the story was about Canada. Depends on your perception of the most likely threat models :) ------ LittleNemoInS Hardly the first... The SeaBubbles were tested on the Geneva lake (the one in Switzerland) three years ago... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaBubble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaBubble) ~~~ polack The Candela Seven is a finished product while the SeaBubble haven't made its way to production yet. With that in mind it's not unreasonable to think Candela had a prototype done before the Bubble... ------ sjburt I don't understand the point at all. At least in my area, most boats of this size are used for fishing, wake sports, or as a sailboat tender. Larger boats with a cabin and accommodations are common as party boats but this seems a bit too small. ~~~ Candelaboat There are plenty of markets & brands around the world that see lots of 8 meter sized day cruiser boats. Remember that boating is very locally adapted, with many boat models from Sweden never being exported to other regions, due to regional preferences and sea conditions. ~~~ mcguire Have you considered the bass-fishing market? Your boats are a little expensive but not terribly so. Speed might be a bigger problem. ------ regularfry I want to strap wings to the side and make a foil/ground-effect crossbreed. ~~~ cagenut and then coat the wings with triple-junction GaAs solar panels for a 5kw "wind" at your back. ~~~ tantalor Strap one these babies on there for a real "solar wind" at your back: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail) ------ quanticle How does one get one of these onto a trailer and down a boat ramp? It seems like the hydrofoil adds enough draft that it would scrape the bottom on a lot of public access ramps. ~~~ treeform On the website they show the foils retract into the boat. ------ dzhiurgis Wonder if you can somehow combine foils with sea legs to walk that thing on the beach :) ------ kiteloop Is there a good solution for removing sea grass that got tangled on the foil? ------ cwkoss How do foils affect the turning characteristics of boats? ------ jack_riminton Very smart solution. Looks like it could be the ideal candidate for some solar panels too ------ mtw How much is this ? ~~~ robfitz There's one for sale in Florida for 295 grand. I can't imagine it's supposed to cost that much, so I'm assuming that either it's someone scalping one of the first 12 due to scarcity, or they'll be dropping prices significantly as they increase production quantities. A super nice diesel boat like this would cost 20-50k. And 50 nautical miles range is... not much. I love boats, but it's hard for me to imagine the use case here. Hopefully it's like Tesla and all improves very rapidly (price, range, etc) after the early batches. ~~~ JacobDotVI >And 50 nautical miles range is... not much This is plenty of range for day trips throughout the Spanish, US, and British Virgin Islands. You could do multi-day trips if you planned your overnights at the various marinas with power hookups (e.g. Scrub Island, Cooper, etc.) ~~~ Ichthypresbyter >This is plenty of range for day trips throughout the Spanish, US, and British Virgin Islands. Or indeed the Stockholm Archipelago, which I imagine is what this is designed for. ~~~ mstade For sure it's enough for the Stockholm archipelago, and pretty much everywhere else along the Swedish east or west coast. As a day cruiser 50 nautical miles is more than enough. ------ phebijohn NIce information ------ ebbflowgo Looks awesome ~~~ topspin Certainly looks smoother than smashing into waves. ------ dmitrygr > Always connected to the cloud via 3G network > High frequency data logging for enhanced > support and fleet learning When will manufacturers finally learn that these are _NOT_ pros, they are _very serious cons_ ‽‽‽ I do not want my data sold, and unless you plan to pay me a rate I set, _my_ data is not an asset you can use in developing _your_ business. ~~~ valuearb Pretty sure anyone who can afford this boat isn’t concerned about Candela selling their data. Likely far more concerned that Candela uses the data to improve their experience. ------ fock so, what's the purpose of this thing. Because taking out "fossil fuels" of a senseless activity just to use up 20% less of our liveable environment, seems -ehm- idiotic? ~~~ Candelaboat That's a great question. Purpose. Even though some might consider boating a senseless activity, people around the world enjoy it dearly. Boating is simply one of the world's biggest outdoor activities. We could have gone for trying to make people quit buying, using and spending on boats, but that seemed a lot harder than creating a better alternative to regular boats. 5 years of R&D, sweat, tears and big load of broken foils later, we are in full production with a boat that reduces local emissions by 99%, compared to fossil boats. ~~~ fock so in what wonderland are you charging your boat with this 99%-less CO2-grid? And guess what, boating could arguably also be done with a 100% reduced emission footprint. It's called sailing. Btw: what did I miss that owning and operating a boat is one of the biggest outdoor activities (especially small motorboats?)? As far as the tech goes: it looks interesting, but safe the "we are making the world a better place" part. ~~~ Candelaboat Gasoline when burned emits 2.3kgs of CO2 One can confidently assume 1.5 liters per nautical mile for an 8 meter petrol boat at speeds above 20 knots. That's 3450 grams per NM. Our boats consume roughly 1 kwh per NM, from the grid. Swedish electricity generation emits about 15g of CO2 per kWh. That's even better than 99%. Even in the US, in 2013, with 500g of CO2 per kWh, the emissions from a Candela are still 85% lower. And at least 99% lower locally in the water where the boat is being used. It would be fantastic if all boating was done by sails, but saying that's the solution is like saying Tesla shouldn't have innovated on the automobile because there is already a technology for moving around on roads: bikes. Do you suggest that nothing should be done about emissions on the water? ~~~ fock > at speeds above 20knots maybe speed is a problem here. and if you are slow, it's a lot less. Also burning at least 50€ (I'm not sure about tax exemptions for nautical fuel, but in Europe 1.5€/l is very likely) for a short trip of ~30km back and forth (which you could hike in a day - though not on water) underlines that whatever you consider "boating, the mass hobby" is something done (to great environmental cost) by a very, very small minority. And yes I'm all for taxing the people with enough money to burn today so that they won't have to do that tomorrow - and reducing emissions of global sea trade as well. ~~~ vlangber There are 1 million leisure boats in Norway, with 5,4m inhabitants. So not exactly just for a very, very small minority.. ~~~ fock motorized leisure boats over 8m going 20knots. I doubt that. ------ sandworm101 Ok. They put an electric motor on a hydrofoil. Where is the innovation? This isn't new stuff. Anyone can buy a hydrofoil hull and install an electric motor. The limitation always was, and remains, the wild impracticality inherent to hydrofoils regardless of power source. ~~~ Candelaboat Hey Sandworm. Candela here. Sure, it's perfectly doable to put hydrofoils on any type of hull, especially passive hydrofoils. We tried, and it wasn't especially nice, nor efficient. The trick is to use fully submerged ones. But those are much harder to keep stable, as they are inherently unstable. That's were our secret sauce is. We can control them through software similar to what you see in drones. Also, we've created the mechanical and structural components necessary for wave handling. You won't find this type of innovation, especially the software, in any other boat in production. That's the new stuff. ~~~ bawana how bout a gas version for us poor folk? Given the increased efficiency, it wouldn't need a big motor? or would the software installed in one of the many sailboat designs using foils prevent their high accident rate?> ------ bullen To move 1.300kg of vehicle to transport 100-500kg of meat is not a prospect that makes sense. I also doubt the boat will handle well with 5 adults. Show me an electric (or dead-trees powered for that matter) boat made for one person that can foil or at least plane and maybe I'll be interested. For reference I made this bike which weighs the same as the person it transports and has batteries that last 10 years for $300 at almost the same range/speed, the bike including everything is $3.000 so 100x cheaper: [https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=h...](https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Felhjul.se) ~~~ Candelaboat Hey Bullen, we do fine with 10 people on board. Check this video: [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1149405105441917](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1149405105441917) Do you also think that a Tesla Model 3, transporting 5 adults, but weighing in at above 1500kg is a bad idea? ~~~ bullen Yes, to produce enough electricity that everyone can have their tesla/candela is impossible because we are running out of cheap dead trees. Electricity is not an energy source. EROEI is already below 10 on the dead trees we use today (down from 100 a century ago, that's 10x or 1000% down). And you need dead-trees to build nuclear and hydro. Solar and wind are useless. A weight ratio of equal between transport (including energy storage) and transported is the only solution. Personally I find the half weight of lithium to not compensate for the complexity/price, so I recommend lead-acid. ~~~ dubcanada Not fully sure what dead trees have to do with anything? Can you expand on what you mean by dead-trees are needed for nuclear and hydro? And can you expand on what you mean by solar and wind are useless? Based on what I've seen EROEI seems to be for wind, solar not so much due to product costs, but wind seems to be above the 7 threshold. ~~~ bullen Dead trees = coal, oil and gas. Solar and wind are not something you can decide when you want it and the EROEI is only ok if you subvention the manufacturing and/or grid with dead-trees, when you look at it from a system perspective they are utterly useless. The numbers only look good through the debt lens. Both solar and wind have very short lifespans.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: What is the best way to log bugs? - konop1 What is the best way to log bugs? Is there a particular format you like to use? A template? ====== njharman with a patch ------ gdhillon Here you go: Title: Description (including steps to reproduce): Severity: (Show-Stopper, P1, P2 etc) Environment: (Windows 7, IE 8 etc) Screenshots (if available) StackTrace (If available)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
AT&T’s fiber deployment: 1Gbps for the rich, 768kbps for the poor - mabey https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/att-brings-fiber-to-rich-areas-while-the-rest-are-stuck-on-dsl-study-finds/ ====== nickpsecurity "Our analysis finds that AT&T has built its all-fiber network disproportionately in higher income communities. " This isn't bad. I was thinking of proposing this exact thing for a local, high-speed ISP. I was going to say focus on denser, high-income residential and city just because you recover your costs back faster. On top of that, it's easier to upsell them on high-margin services that increase either profit or growth. The backbones-connected sites where ISP's can get cheaper bandwidth [in long run] are also usually close to such areas since they were similarly targeting profitable regions. Now, I have less data on that last claim to say how often its true or exactly how close customers are. I've just often seen cases where new ISP's might be able to get a quick start targeting the homes or businesses physically close to those sites for cheaper fiber. A bootstrap option. "However, the copper could be replaced by wireless networks instead of fiber in areas where fiber rollouts aren't cost-effective. AT&T is deploying a 10Mbps fixed wireless service in order to meet its Connect America Fund obligations." Now, this is a decent idea. NEPA, a small ISP with wireless, was already here showing it can work: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13688595](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13688595) ------ mattkrea I, too, would target the areas that would quickly récup the costs of the fiber I just paid out. Why deploy if people can't afford $100+/month internet service? (guessing on that price.. I pay $120 for 200mbps today) ------ at-fates-hands I see Ars is at it again with its Liberal class warfare articles. I find it humorous how we complain about how low income families are having such a hard time being trampled under foot by the out of control corporate greed. And here we are, complaining about. . . Internet access that's _only_ 768Kbps. I mean, are you really still that poor if you can afford a smartphone, internet access, a computer, a wireless router and a cable modem? I've been to places in South Africa and Haiti where people are just happy to have clean water to wash their clothes and drink. The notion that we are making a big deal out of this is absurd and laughable. ~~~ nickpsecurity "Internet access that's only 768Kbps." The problem is that cell service and sometimes Internet services are becoming close to a necessity for getting jobs or cheap goods. There's a lot of people in rural areas kind of stuck because they don't have such things or have them periodically. I know some. Two of my family members were in that situation with one sort of out of it now. She got a job right after I bought her a single month of phone time. She had to borrow time on our PC and Internet to do all the online applications. All she needed were two things hard to get for the poor.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Obituary for Ian McNaught-Davis - timclark http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/18/ian-mcnaught-davis ====== timclark He was a big influence on me working in technology and becoming a programmer. Thanks for all those BBC programmes in the early eighties.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How I Reduced My DB Server Load by 80% - itsderek23 https://www.schneems.com/2017/07/18/how-i-reduced-my-db-server-load-by-80/ ====== brasetvik Note that Postgres supports functional indexes, and the case in the post (a `lower(column)=`-clause not being able to utilise the column's index) is the example used in the documentation: [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/indexes- expre...](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/indexes- expressional.html) ~~~ brightball Was coming here to post that. Being able to create indexes based on the results of a function is the solution to so many problems. You can even index the result of an XPath function on a huge, compressed XML document. ~~~ jaggederest Partial functional indexes are amazing. You can create an index that not only elides execution of the function, but automatically only includes the subset where that function would be relevant. Makes the index smaller, to boot. create index repo_name_lower on repos(LOWER(name)) where name IS NOT NULL; ~~~ combatentropy Partial unique-constraint indexes are useful too ------ combatentropy This story supports my growing theory that you should put as much of your app's rules in the database as you can. There were three problems with having the rule in Rails: 1\. The need for an index was easily overlooked. 2\. The rule would be bypassed if a different app used the same database. 3\. The rule wasn't even foolproof. Only a database constraint would guarantee uniqueness when two users are saving at the same instant. The problem is, SQL is hard. We should not forget how much a programmer must learn. For example: Ruby, Rails, Linux command line, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, vi, how to exit vi, etc. Each of these takes years to master. SQL is especially SQuirreLy. However, it can't possibly be worse than learning the myriad JavaScript frameworks and complicated server-build tools that are completely optional for 99% of us. My advice: Don't do a SPA. Spend your time on SQL instead :D ~~~ BurningFrog Well, there are problems with that approach too. At the far end, any programming logic you put in the DB will be impossible to scale if needed. You can only have one DB, but any number of Rails servers. Database constraints are a matter of preference and skill set. They make some things much harder when you have to delete things is certain convoluted orders, and I can get the correctness through tests. Your decisions may differ. That's fine. You should always put indexes on things you query by. Be vigilant. This is _the_ one case where "only optimize when you have a performance problem" rule doesn't apply. ~~~ jaggederest Indexes are useful for speeding up select statements but they run a significant cost on insert and update. Sometimes it's better not to index, if you have a table that is updated often and queried in varying, complex, rarely repeated ways. ~~~ BurningFrog Yeah, I'm aware of that, and I'm sure these cases exist, but after 20 years around these things I have yet to see one in real life. ~~~ jaggederest FWIW I've worked for multiple companies where tables couldn't reasonably be indexed. Special cases though, usually write-only analytic tables that are queried once in a blue moon and have incredibly high traffic (~millions of rows per hour). ------ cletus I've seen a litany of these kinds of posts and I'm always amazed by two things when I see them posted on HN: 1\. A cadre of diehards can't wait to post how amazing Postgress is or would be for whatever it is the OP is doing (as an aside, why isn't Postgres more popular if it's so amazing?); and 2\. How averse people are to actual SQL. Years ago I dealt with this crap in the Java world back when Hibernate and the like were all the rage. I was always amazed at how much confirmation bias there seemed to be. People decided these ORMs were amazing and then completely ignored all the bugs introduced by this layer and effort spent trying to figure out what the ORM was doing and how to make it do the right thing. Back in the day I always liked a Java data mapper framework called iBatis (now dead, replaced by Mybatis it seems), which was pretty simple. Write some SQL in an XML file and call that SQL from your Java code. It was parameterized (so no SQL injection issues) and you could still do some funky things with discriminated types and the like. Plus, analytics were super easy because you knew how often each query was called and how long it took. Also, you could easily EXPLAIN PLAN those queries if you even had to (usually needed indexes were obvious). Compare this to the auto-generated SQL from the likes of Hibernate. ugh. I've come to the conclusion that people have this tendency to decide X is bad and then go completely out of their way to avoid X. You see it with SQL and ORMs. It largely explains (IMHO) thing slike Javascript and GWT. At least half the time "X is bad" really means "I don't understand X and I don't want to learn it". Joel Spolsky's "leaky abstractions" is good and time-honoured advice. Take the Hibernate example. Once you bought into that framework you had to do all your data access that way or you broke the caching. That's mostly bad. People also overestimate their needs. They rush to create Hadoop clusters and distributed NoSQL solutions because, you know, relational DBs can't keep up with their "Big Data" (which means, millions of rows) when in fact you can dump billions of rows into a single MySQL instance. ~~~ chrisan > 1\. A cadre of diehards can't wait to post how amazing Postgress is or would > be for whatever it is the OP is doing (as an aside, why isn't Postgres more > popular if it's so amazing?); and I'm a happy MySQL user, all of my side projects and on the job work is done in MySQL. That said, how else would Postgres become more popular if there isn't some level of evangelism to spread the word? I like reading about Postgres features and maybe someday I will switch. For now, with my/our needs, MySQL is fine ------ xfour Exactly why ORMs are a bad idea. I've always wondered whether ORMs help or harm. I feel like the one reason to use it is if you have a development team that isn't capable of writing SQL which in itself is bad. ~~~ esaym Well the problem is, if you don't use an ORM, you'll invent one yourself...only poorly. And new hires will end up taking a ton of time to learn this "custom" orm framework of yours. And there are many bad, or simply, "too simple" ORMs out there that really don't help you much. I haven't really found one better than Perl's DBIx::Class (though outside of Java, Python, Ruby, I have haven't really looked). Case in point, I recently found this little gem[0] allowing easy correlated subqueries. I basically took a webpage that was loading in over 2 minutes, and reduced it to about 100ms and the outputted SQL was about 2 pages long (from about half a page of custom resultset orm code). I used several correlated subqueries to sort of pivot part of a table (well several tables actually). The original author of the code I was working on was fetching entire tables of data, with each row fetching (joining) to another entire table (it did this in several levels really) just to sum some values. This was all valid ORM code (even with handy 'if' statements checking every row id to do in ORM join (yes he didn't even use a dang where clause!)) but it showed a true lack of knowledge of the ORM at hand and even SQL in general. Nonetheless, I saved the day :) [0] [https://blog.afoolishmanifesto.com/posts/introducing-dbix- cl...](https://blog.afoolishmanifesto.com/posts/introducing-dbix-class-helper- resultset-correlaterelationship/) ~~~ toast0 You can absolutely build a product on top of an SQL database, by just writing the SQL queries you need. As a bonus, if you're thinking ahead, you can avoid writing queries that will perform poorly. If you're not thinking ahead, at least you can more easily fix the ones that do. I've never really understood why people want to interact with their database outside of its native query language. There's just so much mismatch between an ORM and the underlying interface, it feels like fighting all the time. And I don't feel like it's really saving any time either. The one thing that's sort of nice is it's easier to write a general filtering function, but SQL filtering lets you write so many things that won't perform well, making that easier isn't really helping anybody. ~~~ ykler I don't want a full-fledged ORM, and I sort of like SQL, but just normalizing nested objects to put them in the database and then unnormalizing them on the way out is really annoying to do in raw SQL in my experience. Every time you want to store a new object in the database, it feels like so much effort to write a bunch of boilerplate functions. Or do you have a solution to this? ~~~ stuartaxelowen If you're using python, you can use named tuples for everything. It's really nice! Check out the psycopg2 namedtuple connection. ~~~ ykler I just glanced at this, and maybe I don't understand, but it sounds like psycopg2 namedtuples only work on one table at a time; is this right? ~~~ stuartaxelowen The namedtuple is just a datastructure interface with psycopg2. For instance, you could write an arbitrary query "SELECT left.x AS cats, right.created_at FROM left JOIN right ON etc" and you'd get namedtuples with attrs `cats` and `created_at`. Similarly, you can insert namedtuples just like rows, since they are iterables, or as namedparameters with the nt._asdict() method. It's great! ------ sidlls > Rarely do we consider how one query or a series of queries could interact to > slow down the whole site. That doesn't seem right to me. It's almost always something to consider when designing the data model. Maybe I'm being uncharitable, but this seems to me to be equivalent to claiming we rarely consider the use of an algorithm or interactions between algorithms and data structures when writing some code. I mean, for toys that's fine, but I wouldn't defer this discussion for something I intended for public use. ------ petergeoghegan > It turns out it was coming from this line in my model. > This innocuous > little line was responsible for 80% of > my total database load. This > validates call is Rails > attempting to ensure that no two Repo records get > > created with the same username and name. Instead of > enforcing the > consistency in the database, it put a > before commit hook onto the object > and it’s querying > the database before we create a new repo to make sure > > there aren’t any duplicates. I still can't believe that Rails even attempts this. It's _simply not possible_ to do this kind of enforcement in a race-free manner using SELECT statements with Postgres. ------ DigitalJack I really like all these debug and analysis reports coming into HN lately. ~~~ djaychela Yeah - I read some of them, and while I don't necessarily 'get' all of it, there's a lot to be learned in all these things, and it's so good that people spend the time to cover in depth what the issues were and how to fix them. ------ ozim For all those ORM's are bad people: `I’ve been seeing that stray 30s+ spike in request time daily for months, maybe years. I never bothered to dig in because I thought it would be too much trouble to track down. It also only happened once a day, so the impact to users was pretty minimal.` ------ lo_fye TL;DR - spend time configuring it, write efficient code, and understand what your 3rd party code is actually doing. ------ tyingq Tldr: Your ORM might generate heavyweight queries. Edit: in this example, case insensitive uniqueness validation in Activerecord ------ throw2016 Rails is a pretty popular framework and widely used. How come something like this was not caught earlier, presumably its affects all Rails applications. Why would anyone code this kind of inefficiency instead of using inbuilt constraints. Has the code been reviewed, tested? Too many questions. It's surprising given how popular Rails was and still is that something which should have been caught in the early days of Rails is discovered now years later. Aren't all the production apps seeing this? Didn't Twitter see this? The real concern is a lot of highly promoted technologies in HN do not get the proper technical scrutiny that one should take for granted in a technical forum and increasingly hype is conflated to quality. ------ Entangled Those who ignore CODD will learn it the hard way, forcefully. ~~~ joshribakoff That just defines what relational is, it doesn't prescribe it as a best practice. There are use cases where its ill advised, like EAV. ------ alkz TL;DR guy has a scheduled job which puts load the db, removes a query which normally runs for 1.9ms instead of implementing rate limiting ------ tkyjonathan I do this everyday for the past 10 years.. This is my bread and butter. [http://www.jonathanlevin.co.uk](http://www.jonathanlevin.co.uk)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Annual Escalating Patent Fee Proposal - pchristensen http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2010/02/annual-escalating-patent-fee-proposal.html ====== lpolovets I like the spirit of this but not the implementation. Currently, if you pay 10k or whatever, you get at a patent for ~20 years. If your idea is valuable, others will (hopefully) be willing to pay royalties. If not, you'll be discouraged from filing fluff patents in the future. If fees start low and escalate every year, there's much more of a game theory aspect. On the inventor side, you have an incentive to apply for 10 silly patents and play the lottery on each for a year instead of filing for 1 good patent that is actually valuable. On the other side, someone considering paying to use a patent might think "Gee, if we make a deal now, we have to pay royalties, but if we wait a year, then there's a good chance Joe Patentholder will not be able to pay the required fees, and then we can use his idea for free!" This doesn't mean Joe's idea is not valuable, but the incentive to wait a few months makes a patent's value too unpredicatable. Also, what if you're negotiating with someone after 2 years and 11 months, and they decide to stall for a month to apply negotiating pressure? ------ fragmede One thing the patent system wishes to hold up as a possibility that it allows is that of the lone inventor who solve the world's problems with a single patent. The patent that leads them to 'the good life'. (Never mind that it rarely happens.) This escalating patent fee proposal eliminates this mythical lone inventor. A different angle that I've wondered about is of compulsory licensing. In copyrights and songwriting, there is a trio of copyright judges that determine the going rate for music in $/minute, and anyone can then reproduce music by paying that price without any negotiation. Of course, better deals can be worked out between parties, but that option is always there. Would it be possible to apply the same sort of thing to patents, to effect a positive change where one is desperately needed? ~~~ alextp This is a very interesting idea, but I think it would be virtually unlegislateable with patents because, among other reasons, you can (and people do) patent things that do not have a consistent unit you charge for (and that don't even go into the final product). For a cheap example, take two pharmaceutical compounds, one that works better in 1mg doses and another that works better on 100mg doses. Should the second be a hundred times as expensive as the first or not? Or suppose someone devises a new way of manufacturing battery cells that are exactly equal to current batteries except the process is a lot cheaper. The fee would apply one-time to the company that used this patented process or would it apply to all products built with this process? And how would, say, the fees of a 9volt and an AAA battery be balanced? So I guess the patent system is too broad for its own good. ~~~ lutorm I don't understand your comment. The fee would apply to the patent _holder_ , for retaining the patent. The licensing fees could be whatever the patent holder wants, if they decide to license it. That's no different from today. If the new way of manufacturing battery cells is of no commercial value and that you don't make any money off of it, then what's the point of holding the patent? ~~~ alextp I was responding to the $/minute equivalent to song licensing earlier in the thread. ------ vaksel great way to screw over the small patent holders. A big corporation can afford to pay 100,000 to keep a patent, a small time inventor would go broke by year 3 ~~~ lutorm If the revenue they get from the patent makes the patent worth holding, then they wouldn't. And if they don't make 100k off of it, then maybe it's not worth holding the patent for longer? The example rises a bit steeper and starts lower than I would have suggested, but it seems reasonable to me. After all, the supposed point of patents is to make it commercially valuable to invest in research by giving you a guaranteed return if the research pays off. If you're not getting any money from your patent, then you're no worse off releasing it than sitting on it for nothing. But society will be better off if patents that aren't used are eliminated.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Whatever Happened to Steampunk? - sp332 https://modus.medium.com/what-ever-happened-to-steampunk-4ac936905165 ====== mattnewton As a San Francisco denizen, I can assure you reports of Steam Punk's death are greatly exaggerated. In my circles at least, some people are annoyed at how much steam punk has infiltrated their other costume niches, like the Edwardian Ball. As other people have said, the link to the iPhone announcement seems super tenuous given the prevelance of steam punk costumes on Halloween. But also, it's possible that the term needs less definition, and that ideas from the steampunk aesthetic have already permeated other art. For example, there is a lot of steam punk looking machinery and decorations at this new minigolf place in SF, but it's not being advertised as such: [https://www.urbanputt.com/](https://www.urbanputt.com/) ~~~ personjerry > new minigolf place Urban Putt has been around for at least 6 years ~~~ mattnewton Fair to not call it new, they apparently opened in 2014. But that is still two years after the article dates the steam punk period as ending, and it is still very popular. ------ ozborn The article asserts, but provides no real evidence that steampunk has "died". I wanted to refute the author's claim by looking at google n-grams, but the viewer cuts off in 2008 with the steampunk n-gram still going strong... Instead I present anecdotal evidence that steampunk is not dead: 1\. The presence of an steampunk section in my local Spirit of Halloween store. 2\. The release of Carnival Row this year by Amazon, which I believe fits the bill close enough. 3\. A continuing new release of steampunk novels ([https://www.goodreads.com/genres/steampunk](https://www.goodreads.com/genres/steampunk)) Flimsy evidence, but perhaps enough to refute the death of steampunk, which is a strong claim. ~~~ greggman2 Not sure it counts but there are a few anime and video games that some people call steampunk. Sakura Taisen/Sakura Wars, the latest version for PS4 was just announced at Tokyo Game Show a few weeks ago. ------ kls To me Steampunk was an artistic movement and as such it is not dead. Sure there where some pretty cool things that actually worked well that came out of it, but it always seemed like that was the secondary purpose to the art. I believe some people got so wound up in it that they basically became steampunk LARP'ers, but for the most part it was an art period and one that really for some reason catches my fancy. Maybe it's art for tinkerers or something like that, but as a child I really liked the wounder of 1000 Leagues and novels like that, and some steampunk pieces evoke that youthful wonderlust in me. It's an art form that encompasses a lot of skills that I personally enjoy doing as a hobby. e.g Welding, Metal Crafting, Pneumatic, Hydraulics, Mechanics. Funny enough even though there was a time that I pursued artistic endeavors and was a pretty avid sketch artist and fairly good CG 3D artist. I have never endeavored to design a steampunk piece. Just too busy for art now days. The question is, who will arise as the Picasso or Dali of the Stempunk period? I would love to know their name and pick up a few pieces now. ~~~ sp332 If it's not dead, what's some recent steampunk art you've seen? ~~~ l_t Seems a bit narrowminded to assume it's dead because you haven't personally seen any art in a while. Steampunk is alive, but more niche. See [https://www.brassscrew.org/](https://www.brassscrew.org/) for instance. ~~~ davnicwil A bit off on a tangent, but I love the 90s design aesthetic of this website. Is it purposeful or somehow linked to steampunk? I can actually see old school web design becoming an art movement in its own right at some point in the future. Imagining what current and future tech companies would look like built on 90s style web technology is pretty fun. ~~~ reificator > _A bit off on a tangent, but I love the 90s design aesthetic of this > website._ I think you and I experienced different 90s design aesthetics if a bootstrap looking site with a big hero image at the top evokes the 90s for you. ~~~ davnicwil Ah, you're right - actually I just realised I clicked through to some of the links which have a completely different design - 2015 link for instance. Main site isn't 90s at all. Actually the design aesthetic I'm talking about might be more early 00s anyway as in the sibling comment. ~~~ reificator Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah that link is maybe late 90s, but early 2000s is probably closer. I hadn't clicked through to that year to see. ------ wbratches Author doesn't mention it, but the demise of skeuomorphism and slow death of late 00's hipsterism (in the sense of fetishizing historical aesthetics in a modern context) goes hand-in-hand with the disappearance of steampunk. ~~~ egypturnash Man I fucking miss skeuomorphism these days. I'm so damn tired of everything being text floating on bright white backgrounds. I live in a white apartment that I can't paint, at least put some texture and color in my virtual spaces where it's just about free. ~~~ theandrewbailey I never liked the in-your-face skeuomorphism that Apple did. I would like modern UIs with subtle 3D cues, like Windows 95 had. I don't think that's a huge ask. ------ pram Success did it in. The Zybourne Clock was the ultimate implementation and perfection of the genre. Steampunk disappeared shortly after because there was nothing more left to achieve. ~~~ 12elephant What is the Zybourne Clock? A quick google shows that it is a defunct game? ~~~ Lammy It was an idea for a community-designed video game on the Something Awful forums. This is a much better summary: [https://shii.bibanon.org/shii.org/knows/Zybourne_Clock.html](https://shii.bibanon.org/shii.org/knows/Zybourne_Clock.html) References to Zybourne Clock made it into some pretty high-profile places thanks to former goons becoming adults and working their way into various industries: [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny) ~~~ NikkiA I think "Community designed ChronoTrigger rip-off" would be more apt ------ 0xDEEPFAC The author suggests the correlation between searches for "steampunk" happening around Sept and Oct are due to iPhone sales which is interesting. Here is an alternative theory though - what if its more related to Halloween? ~~~ Finnucane In the 1990s steampunk was just what we called whatever it was that Tim Powers, James Blaylock, and KW Jeter were writing, and now it is costume goggles you can get at the Party City at the local mall. ~~~ grahamburger I thought the steampunk genre was born with Wild Wild West - that awful Will Smith movie from '99\. That's what I remember from living through it. I would actually have a bit more respect for steampunk as a subculture if it's genesis resided elsewhere - that movie was so ridiculously stupid that steampunk has been tainted for me by association. Edit to add: apologies all around, dear steampunk enthusiasts! Fwiw Steampunk really didn't enter anything close to the mainstream in my corner of the U.S. until that movie came out, and afterwards seemed to be everywhere I looked, so I don't think it was a totally unreasonable assumption. (And yes, I knew the movie was based on older material, but didn't know to what extent the visual aesthetic had already been defined.) As penance I will purchase one Steampunk item from my local costume store and wear it to my next all-hands work meeting. ~~~ krapp No, steampunk as an aesthetic goes at least as far back as Jules Verne and H.G. Wells, and the term comes from the 1980s. ~~~ Finnucane Steampunk is a modern retro movement. It is not Verne and Wells, but modern writers writing in a Wellsian mode. Why this should have come formed around a group of writers who, perhaps not coincidentally, had in their younger days been friends with Philip Dick, is unknown. Gibson and Sterling were actually somewhat late to the game. ------ spbyrne I really don't think Steampunk is tied to the iPhone in any way. "steampunk was a cultural response to the ultimate technological zeitgeist, the iPhone" is a pretty bold claim. ~~~ toxican It's like someone picked two topics out of a hat (iPhone, Steampunk) and was tasked with writing an article about them. iPhones (and smartphones in general) were definitely a cultural phenomenon, but there's literally nothing tangible connecting them to Steampunk aside from the author's shallow, fluffed up wordsmithing. ------ thrower123 You can't swing a dead cat through the Steam game listings without hitting something Steampunk inspired. They aren't brand new, but Frostpunk, Forgotten Anne, and They Are Billions are all since the article claims Steampunk peaked, and they have done quite well. It's possible that the aesthetic has just become so ubiquitous that it doesn't bear noticing anymore in that context. ------ bregma Steampunk not dead. It's just that we discovered retrofuturism instead and graduated from the Victorian age that never was into the space age that never will be. ~~~ taneq I like the way you say "discovered" as if raygun gothic was always there just waiting for someone to stumble onto it. :) ------ mattkevan It became too cliche. As soon as it became associated with glueing a few cogs to a top hat it had to die. ~~~ tinus_hn [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA) Just Glue Some Gears On It (And Call It Steampunk) ------ toxican What's more likely? The iPhone has some hidden, subtle responsibility for the death of Steampunk -or- something niche like Steampunk found mainstream success, over saturated the pop culture market, then fizzled away back to something niche again? ------ daveslash Off topic from the Article, but I like contrast between Steampunk and Dieselpunk. I find Steampunk optimistic about technology and Dieselpunk pessimistic. A motif in steampunk is that technology is here to enlighten and save us -- it's something to be welcomed with open arms. Diselpunk treats technology as something of we aught to be cautious. In that way, I think the 2000's, into the early 2010's were optomistic. In general, I'd assert that we are collectively much more cautious about technology today than we were then. _" I like the word "dieselpunk" if you are doing something like 'Weird World War II'. I think that makes perfect sense. But to me, World War I is the dividing point where modernity goes from being optimistic to being pessimistic. Because when you put the words "machine" and "gun" together, they both change. At that point, war is no longer about a sense of adventure and chivalry and a way of testing your nation's level of manhood; it's become industrial, and horrible. So playing around with that border between optimistic steampunk and a much more pessimistic dieselpunk, which is more about Nazis, was kind of interesting to me because early in the war we were definitely kind of on the steampunk side of that._" ~ Scott Westerfeld, via Wikipedia. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselpunk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselpunk) ------ Animats Huh? I was active in steampunk events from 2010 to 2018 [1][2], and never heard anyone even _mention_ an "iPhone". [1] [https://vimeo.com/124065314](https://vimeo.com/124065314) [2] [http://www.aetherltd.com](http://www.aetherltd.com) ------ coldtea > _How the iPhone popularized steampunk… and how the iPhone killed it off_ The iPhone had very little to do with either popularizing or killing steampunk... Its moment come and went (as far as a little more mass appeal goes) before the iPhone... ------ ape4 Still alive in Coldwater, Ontario. [https://www.steampunkfestivalcoldwater.com/](https://www.steampunkfestivalcoldwater.com/) ------ busterarm Personally, I could never stand the Steampunk aesthetic -- probably because of the people adorning it -- and I'm glad the world has moved on. ------ blendo Steampunk helps me come to grips with the industrial revolution, 150 years on. In an age of gigahertz radio waves and nanosecond computer speeds, I like thinking about 1 Hertz, 1 Volt, 1 Ohm, and 1 Farad (!) alt-histories. As the story said, > It’s about using design to make the working of technology scrutable through > an object’s aesthetic. ------ jimbob45 If one takes Steampunk to be technological advancements beyond (but inspired by) the era coupled with an intense devotion to the style of the era, then Stranger Things could be considered the spiritual successor to Steampunk. ~~~ dragonwriter But Steampunk is just the Age of Steam version; the prototypical version is Cyberpunk. Which is actually inspired by roughly the same era as ST, but focussing on different elements of the era (and usual set farther forward from the inspiring era.) ------ SolaceQuantum Steampunk hasn't really died, but more evolved- see branching movements like new weird, silkpunk, slipstream, cli-fi, hyperreallism etc. ~~~ uncletaco Is silkpunk even a thing outside of Ken Liu’s Dandelion Dynasty (which is amazing btw)? ~~~ pmoriarty I've never heard of that, but the steampunk aesthetic is present in Dishonored, for example, and many other computer games. Steampunk is alive and well, and (arguably) more alive than ever. There are steampunk conventions, steampunk meetups, steampunk games, steampunk magicians even. This didn't used to be the case. It started as an obscure literary subgenre that few people had heard of. Asking on HN about steampunk 10 years ago would have probably drawn mostly blank looks. Now many people actually know what it is, and even participate. ~~~ sp332 Of the top 20 most popular HN submissions with "steampunk" in the title, including this one, 6 were 9 or more years ago. [https://hn.algolia.com/?q=steampunk](https://hn.algolia.com/?q=steampunk) ------ gameswithgo I'm planning to do a steampunky pc build soon! steampunk lives! ------ Porthos9K I hate upvoting articles posted on Medium, but this one deserves it.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Tesla Tells New Taxi, Uber Drivers Not to Use Its Superchargers - fmihaila https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-15/tesla-tells-new-taxi-uber-drivers-not-to-use-its-superchargers ====== marklyon I must say, the drivers who use their Tesla as an Uber do a hell of a job of representing the company and making the brand accessible. I am not fully ready to purchase a car and don’t want to deal with a sales pitch, but got a great overview of the S and X from two different drivers on trips. I got to touch and play with the car. I got real feedback from people who spend far more time in the car than I ever will. Both left me with a positive impression and, as a result, I’ll likely seriously consider a Tesla when I am ready to buy a vehicle. ~~~ dingo_bat Isn't that the case with any car though? ~~~ Strom Anecdotal but the only Uber/taxi driver who has ever started giving me an unsolicited tour of their car was a Tesla S owner. ------ fmihaila The wording in the article's first paragraph can almost be read as if the policy applied to all Tesla cars used commercially, but the actual announcement is more clear: > This Policy applies to all Superchargers worldwide and all Tesla vehicles > purchased, either new or used, whether from Tesla or a third party, after > December 15, 2017. [https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair- use](https://www.tesla.com/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-use) I updated the title accordingly. ~~~ moonka I understand changing the policy for new sales going forward, but changing it unilaterally from used sales seems wrong. ~~~ greglindahl Some Tesla features are written into contracts and some are not. For example, Tesla is not charging anyone for cellphone service for the car. That's not written into the contract, but they kinda have to provide it for free: they need access to vehicle logs for roadside service, and the car needs software updates for safety reasons. As an owner, I have absolutely no idea what the contract ever said about supercharging. I also know that this change doesn't affect me, other than making it more likely that I can supercharge without waiting. ~~~ Reason077 Until 2016, Tesla vehicles were marketed and sold with "unlimited, free for life" supercharging, with "life" meaning the lifetime of the car. Obviously Tesla can change change their terms however they like on new vehicles that they sell. However, to now go and retroactively remove/restrict this benefit when pre-2016 vehicles are resold seems wrong. ~~~ rando444 The people doing this are abusing the system and trying to take their benefit and sell it for profit. ~~~ wolfgke This is something nearly every entrepreneur does. ------ Harelin I'm reminded of the Tesloop episode of 'The Pitch' podcast. "Haydn Sonnad pitches his plan to revolutionize regional transit on the back of Tesla’s electric charging network." [https://gimletmedia.com/episode/11-tesloop/](https://gimletmedia.com/episode/11-tesloop/) ~~~ hackcrafter They called him on this potentially happening too during the pitch. I hope they bought all the Teslas they need! ~~~ greglindahl I think the average owner hopes that they didn't. Although there's a new 40-stall supercharger between Vegas and LA, so Tesloop probably isn't significantly harming the system at this point. ------ kirillzubovsky Can you still mine BTC from the trunk, so long as you do it solely for your own purposes? ~~~ Jagat Yes [https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-mining-bitcoin- model-s-...](https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-mining-bitcoin-model-s- supercharger-power/) ~~~ greglindahl Note that an unmodified Tesla allows you to draw 120 watts from the cigarette lighter, not 2,800 like the claim in the article. Which likely false. Fun article, I see you clicked on it. ------ techsupporter I really hope Tesla is successful at beefing up its supercharger network. If the proper phrase is "I have no dog in this hunt," I extend the analogy to "because I have a cat." As an occasional driver of a Nissan Leaf in Puget Sound, the (in my observation) massive uptick in Tesla cars up here has really put a strain on the relatively tiny DC quick-charge network. Where that car can be in and out of a CHAdeMO station in 25-35 minutes, Tesla cars seem to occupy it for two hours. Presumably, and I'm just guessing, this is because a CHAdeMO station is to a Tesla what a 240V level 2 charger is to a Leaf. If I drive to a particular Eastside shopping center, I'd better hope I plan to be there for at least two hours because there's no chance of ever seeing an unoccupied one of the quick chargers there. Either way, that's why I hope that either Tesla gets its superchargers more widely deployed or that some company takes the hint and builds more DC quick chargers. (Preferably more reliable ones, too, while I'm wishing for ponies. The one at the Lake City Fred Meyer seems to only have two states, occupied or broken.) ~~~ CiaranMcNulty Leaf battery is 30kWh and even the smallest Teslas are double that (60kWh), most are triple (90kWh until recently was the largest). Assuming they can all draw the same current it makes sense that teslas are lingering for 2-3 times longer. The new 40kWh Leaf 2.0 offers similar range to the 60kWh Tesla, for comparison. Presumably this is due to weight etc. ------ jasonjei How will Tesla enforce this policy? Tracking vehicle usage data, looking for lots of short trip patterns? Looking for rideshare decals (drivers would be wise to use removable decals)? Asking Uber/Lyft to share VIN numbers of registered cars? ~~~ ams6110 Looking for cars with Uber placards parked at superchargers? ~~~ tytytytytytytyt Why bother if you have access to vehicle and supercharging data? ~~~ ams6110 Just saying, there are simple ways that don't involve deep statistical analysis of driving data. Incidentally this is a reason I'll probably never buy a Tesla. I don't care for the manufacturer of my car to be logging every trip I take and every location I visit. ~~~ 35bge57dtjku As if it's not already via your cell phone? ------ glenstein Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just charge commercial users more instead? ~~~ xoa Just my speculation, but from the article and Tesla's announcement, it looks like this is an availability thing given Tesla's current scale, not a cost thing per se. Ie., they're not worried that commercial users are consuming too much electricity or anything like that, rather the limited resource in question is the actual number of physical spots at a supercharger area, which is a hard thing to scale quickly. Eventually we can expect that electrical car infrastructure will become sufficiently ubiquitous that it won't be an issue, but for now in a still relatively early bootstrapping stage of things I presume that Tesla is concerned that their customers feel as little anxiety or charging irritation as possible. Tesla is most interested in raw numbers of customers (necessary for efficiencies of scale) rather then how hard each customer is using the car, so they want superchargers build out optimized for serving the maximum number of customers regardless of price. You're right that maybe long term they could set up more to serve commercial capacity on the back of higher commercial prices, but particularly in metro areas acquiring land, permits, and so forth and building physical infrastructure isn't quick. ~~~ chairmanwow Thanks for the great analysis. ------ jondwillis How will they enforce this for rideshare drivers? ------ plg How do they know whether you use it commercially or personally? I think I know the answer and it's disconcerting. ~~~ nikanj Send you a friendly letter if miles per week exceed a treshold? ~~~ plg What if I don’t want them to track me. ~~~ nikanj It's really hard to fill up your battery, without learning how much juice you have used. They don't have to track you, they can just follow the amount of power spent. ------ lafar6502 And the reality is back, teaching the maths ------ supergirl “We may also take additional action to protect the availability of Superchargers for their intended purpose, such as limiting or blocking your vehicle’s ability to use Supercharger stations.” say what. is it well known that tesla can brick your car whenever they feel like it? ~~~ B1FF_PSUVM They have root and a comm line, they can. Same with Amazon taking back Kindle books a few years ago. Also your smartphone. Not yours. Nowadays "buy" means "rent". Pick a landlord. ~~~ supergirl somehow it feels way bigger deal if my car is bricked. ~~~ TomMarius The car will be alright, you just can't charge it for free. ~~~ supergirl Yeah but the fact that they have the ability to block this means they can block other things too. ~~~ TomMarius They would block the output of the charger, not the input of your car. ------ speedplane My hope: Tesla succeeds at making real things and has a stock valuation that accurately reflects their intrinsic value while providing sufficient support to fund new ventures. Is that too much to ask? ------ paul7986 An Uber driver can afford a Tesla?? ~~~ nobodyshere They can and they do. I talked to an Uber driver with a model s in Amsterdam. Leases it with his brother for about €1600 per month and still makes profit. ~~~ t0mas88 There are Tesla Ubers/taxis all over Amsterdam. It's a tax thing, a typical Mercedes taxi would also cost 1200 / month and then much more in fuel than the Tesla. ~~~ walshemj which only works until the govement notices the tax loss ad changes the tax laws basing a business on a tax loop hole is a high risk stratergy ~~~ nobodyshere Apparently right now environmentalism is a quite good justification for such lowered taxes. After all taxis are some of the most actively driven vehicles in the streets of any country. ~~~ walshemj Well in the UK it was a tax break for rich middle class people - not going to help a single parent who buys her electricity on a key system. ~~~ greglindahl The single parent doesn't get any benefit from less pollution and less global warming? ~~~ walshemj No She just pays even more on an already more expensive tariff ------ dba7dba Oh no Bjorn, what is he going to do? ------ Shivetya this kind of retroactive changes to their policies with regards to supercharges can end up biting them in the butt. it demonstrates that they consider nearly all promises changeable. though when the III becomes widely available I fully expect a whole host of other issues come about and some segments of their user base to demand exclusions for those they think make unfair use of the chargers. having been disconnected from a public charger by another EV owner who flat out told me i did not drive a real EV (its a Volt) I have found there are some real entitled thinking people driving these days	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
America’s Biggest Economic Challenge May Be Demographic Decline - jonbaer https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/upshot/americas-biggest-economic-challenge-may-be-demographic-decline.html ====== webmobdev I don't see how this is an issue. The US follows the capitalistic model of considering its citizens as resources (workers), and thus uses immigration as a state policy to get the best human resource from the world. The american society has also been molded to accept that those who don't meet the requirements of employability or don't have some financial backup (thus still contributing) are dumped in age old homes, jail or on the streets (the homeless), and considered useless and treated as a burden on society, thus making space for more new immigrants.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Difference between two days in Java - babuskov http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3299972/difference-in-days-between-two-dates-in-java ====== babuskov I amazes me how many programers are completely ignorant about daylight savings and leap seconds. OTOH, those who aren't, don't mind the low performance of looping. :(	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, docs show - kposehn http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/ ====== wreegab > "Glenn Greenwald’s government-bashing blog" I stopped reading at this point -- I felt I would lose my time reading the rest of the article. Keeping accountable is not "bashing". ~~~ lstamour Too bad, because I think the phrase was used to contrast the criticism of the government with the alignment of interests later in the article. The ultimate point is murky, but indicates some weaknesses inherent to "independent journalism" today. ~~~ staunch There's absolutely no contradiction between disapproval of NSA spying and support of US foreign. The article does try to make that point and it's childlike in its stupidity. ------ omonra "When the revolution came to Ukraine, neo-fascists played a front-center role in overthrowing the country’s president." Can stop reading here (that is if you got past the point suggested by wreegab). Pure nonsense. Next thing you know the author will claim that Ukraine invaded Russia to take away Crimea.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Modern-Day Million Dollar Homepage - maxfriedman http://thebigcashgame.com ====== maxfriedman Crazy side project I built with my college roommates this weekend during the snowstorm in DC. This is the first ever ad-supported cash giveaway. Completely free to enter, winner must donate 18% of winnings to a charity of their choice. ~~~ minimaxir When dealing with actual money, "side project" is not relevant. I strongly question the legality of the terms present (a raffle has _strict_ legal requirements) and I recommend looking into that before continuing. ~~~ maxfriedman Thanks for the feedback, you make a good point about when a "side project" becomes something to be taken more seriously. To clarify, this is not a raffle, contest, or lottery and we did extensive legal research. It's considered a sweepstakes since no purchase is necessary, and it is also void where prohibited. We have a set of official rules for the sweepstakes, and we're doing everything we can to ensure that we are abiding by the law and being transparent with all site visitors.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Hours until NZ spy law passed. Contact your MP. - wlj http://www.crossthefloor.co.nz/ ====== wannabekiwi Apologies for the throwaway, but I thought I'd share my letter to Nicky Wagner here. For the uninitiated, ICT is "Information and Communication Technology" \- roughly the equivalent to IT in the states. Hi Nicky, I'm a Software Engineer in the United States. My wife and I are presently in the process of migrating to New Zealand, specifically Christchurch, under the Skilled Migrant Category visa. I'm sure I don't need to inform you that ICT is on New Zealand's list of long term skills shortages. Further, I'm sure that you're acutely aware of the significance that ICT growth can play to the economic resurgence of Christchurch. As someone who is hoping to aid in this effort, I feel obligated to inform you that the GCSB is a huge deterrent for me. Being that my peers in the ICT industry are also quite sensitive to issues such as these, I can't imagine that this will help the ICT skills shortage for Christchurch, or the rest of New Zealand. Please vote against the GCSB, and urge your colleagues to do the same. Edit: Now that I'm rereading this I realize that I wrote "the GCSB" when I meant "the GCSB bills." Whoops! Edit 2: Sent the following clarification. And here's hoping I didn't just get added to some watch list and screw over my chances for visa approval! Just for clarification, I'm referring to the GCSB bills below, not the entire GCSB. I support the GCSB as a whole, as well as its greater purpose, but I'd much rather be moving to a country that didn't allow for warrantless surveillance of its people. ------ pflanze For those not from NZ and wondering like me what the "GCSB Bill" is: GCSB is the Government Communications Security Bureau of New Zealand[1]. There seem to be two bills[2], and the topic has been on HN several times, but never got many points[3]. [1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Secur...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Security_Bureau) [2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5989010](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5989010) [3] [https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=GCSB+bill](https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=GCSB+bill) ~~~ mattdw The bill allows our previously Foreign-intel Spy Agency extra domestic powers to (a) assist other agencies like the police and (b) undertake mass domestic surveillance with very little oversight in the name of "cybersecurity" and "economic security" It's point (b) that's causing the real controversy, particularly since we're in the 5-eyes network and thus the GCSB are likely data-sharing with everyone else in the network (e.g. NSA, GCHQ.) In reality the GCSB has been caught illegally spying on NZers, so the new bill is a rush-job to retroactively legalise it, but it's just ridiculously vague, and without even the protections of the US FISA court. The oversight regime is that warrants are issued by the Prime Minister (the leader of the majority government party) and/or the Director of the GCSB (currently an old school-buddy of the current Prime Minister.) There's an auditor/investigator (one guy) who will get to review things once a year after the fact, although amendments to the bill might make it a panel of three doing the reviewing. ~~~ aidos The Law Society of NZ has detailed their opposition over the bill [1]. And to really get a grasp on the insanity - watch the Prime Minister likening the system to virus protection [2] - then walking out of the press conference (after saying the Law Society are wrong). [1] [http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/683...](http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/68389/Government- Communications-Security-Bureau-and-Related-Legislation-Amendment- Bill-140613.pdf) [2] [http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Key-walks-out-of-press- conferen...](http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Key-walks-out-of-press- conference/tabid/423/articleID/309655/Default.aspx) ------ owenwil Some of these are already a write off. Paul Foster Bell has publicly said on Twitter that he will not reconsider as there are "real threats" in NZ and that IT company networks "need security" from the government. If you try debate this, they'll just block you: [https://twitter.com/ow/status/369769923427307520](https://twitter.com/ow/status/369769923427307520) ~~~ canadiancreed Ah the "I'm right and will not listen to anything that contradicts my view!" type. How the hell do such people get anything other then heaping helpings of scorn? ------ aidos I've just written to all the MPs on this list. I'd ask that all other Kiwis do the same. It will take just a couple of minutes and if just a single MP crosses the floor it will stop the bill (as I understand it - I'm living outside of NZ at the moment). ------ cpursley Crazy. And here I was thinking NZ would be my refugee when the rest of the world goes to hell in a hand-basket. ~~~ adventured The refuge is large amounts of at least moderately inhabitable land, with minimal militia or violence threat. I used to like NZ as well, but I'm favoring Canada these days, it has an obscenely immense amount of territory to disappear into. Chile, Peru and Argentina are also interesting; while they vary in terms of being basket cases, there's a lot of land, they're far away from all the super powers, are unlikely to get directly nuked, and are not land locked. ~~~ canadiancreed I seem to recall Canada either is debating or already has similar legislation in place (memory fails me sadly). Although we do definitely have lots of wide open space, mainly because it's either arctic desert, bare rock, or is below freezing for six months of the year (or more) ------ drdaeman Or, better, spread the word on how to secure your own communications. Make people realize there could be no expectations of privacy when the letter's not in the envelope, and educate them on what's going on in the digital world. Make insecure communications look outdated and simply uncool, as they already should be for a while. That is, unless you believe your government, ISP and their peer ISPs (including some US, Chinese or Russian ISP your e-postcard passes through) are totally trustworthy and good-mannered noblemen so they won't even accidentally peek onto your e-postcards if they're told they mustn't. Disclaimer: I'm not NZ citizen and unaware of exact situation. I'm Russian citizen, and we have SORM-2 for years. So, I've just shared my opinion on any government or corporate spying case out there. I just think it's pointless to legally forbid spying as this makes false sense of security without any real effect. ~~~ coldtea > _Or, better, spread the word on how to secure your own communications. Make > people realize there could be no expectations of privacy when the letter 's > not in the envelope_ That's a BS interpretation, based on a BS american law. One should always have an expectation of privacy -- ie nobody but the recipients should be legally allowed to read your email (except with a warrant or similar). That should be made into law (and it should be made so that there are severe penalties for anybody reading your mail without your consent, including employees in your email provider. It should also not be able to be used against you in court). That they can read electronic mail (e.g if it's plaintext etc) easily is not a concern at all. One can easily walk into someone's house and steal things, but it's not allowed all the same. ~~~ drdaeman Do you have expectation of security if you don't lock your house, then? I'll rephrase it this way - do you expect that no burglar will enter the premises just because there's a law that says that it's illegal to do so? I didn't meant it's OK to sniff upon anyone's plaintext communications (although I'm unsure whenever prohibiting so is more of a good or bad thing, but let's leave this thought aside). I meant that it's just extremely unwise to expect that nobody but the intended recipient will read your envelopeless postcard. Especially because we know governments really have a thing for that. ~~~ coldtea > _Do you have expectation of security if you don 't lock your house, then?_ Of course. And if that expectation is violated, if the culprit, if caught, will very much go to jail. And in some places you can have a go at him yourself. > _I 'll rephrase it this way - do you expect that no burglar will enter the > premises just because there's a law that says that it's illegal to do so?_ No, but I don't care about that much. I care about governments or corporations (e.g legal entities) going through our stuff, regularly, massively and legally. I want them to not be able to do it legally (and I want the law to try to enforce penalties if they try to bypass that). As for random hackers and such, those are not a systematic threat. That is, I'd like the same protections for my email that one has (or used to have) for his house: e.g no search without a warrant issued for a specific detailed reason. As for protection from burglars, I know how to lock my door, and even if I forget that, those people will be breaking the law and be held responsible by it.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Animate in Xcode without code - jamztang http://canvaspod.io ====== bsaul Never tried that component, but not being able to set a custom font for a text view is such an obvious miss for an OS that claims to be so much text oriented. I can't count the number of times i've had to bind a UILabel into my code just to set the font. I know, UIApparence should be the way to set fonts everywhere, but that defeat the purpose of rapid prototyping IB is made for. ~~~ jamztang There's a third party plugin for Xcode claims to do this called MoarFonts and asked you for $10, however I have not tried that. Runtime attributes patch wouldn't take effect instantly in IB but it works reliably well in our experience. ~~~ jrnkntl Link to MoarFonts: [http://pitaya.ch/moarfonts/](http://pitaya.ch/moarfonts/) ------ MProgrammer User defined runtime attributes in IB are great. We use them for font name and other handy things (like CALayer attributes for corner radius, shadows, etc). A word of caution, though. Using key paths in your categories like "fontName" is pretty dangerous. Apple could add such a property, or your users could already have one on their object, that would cause problems. I would suggest including a prefix or suffix, e.g. "cvs_fontName" similar to three-letter- prefixing. I'll second the mention about checking the release notes of the latest iOS/Xcode beta, for those who have access. Moarfonts seemed promising, but caused nothing but problems when we tried it. ------ MaxGabriel For anyone building the sample project getting _vImage related compiler errors, link Accelerate.framework. I can't figure out why that's an issue though — URBImageMediaViewController (dependency where the error comes from)'s sample project doesn't link against Accelerate.framework either, but it builds fine. ~~~ mengto Hey Max, are you talking about the Ripple demo or the Canvas one? I'll definitely look into that. :) ~~~ MaxGabriel Hey :) Canvas one. ~~~ mengto Ok, will look into it! ------ coldcode Does it work on Landscape iPad? Some of the new iOS7 animation APIs have odd issues on that orientation. ------ jrnkntl Nice work. Keeping animation in the presentation-layer makes sense for 90% of the projects. Any reason for the iOS 7 requirement? ~~~ lukeredpath Using the new keyframe animation API by the looks of things. ~~~ jamztang Yes it's using the keyframe APIs, it might be more like an experimental code style for now, but we will keep revising to make it better. ------ danielrakh This looks pretty awesome. Excited to give it a try.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Vanillin – JavaScript DOM Library - bartq http://metaes.org/docs-vanillin.html ====== newsbinator I can see the "About" section, which tells me the "what", but I'd love to read about the "why", compared to other DOM manipulation libraries. ~~~ bartq Good point, will add that part.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Neko.io adds a splash of real privacy to Facebook and elsewhere around the web - markkum Neko.io puts the genie back in the bottle - adds a splash of real privacy to Twitter, Facebook, Google+ and elsewhere around the web<p>If you want to stay in touch with your friends, there's no escape from Twitter, Facebook, Google+ and other social networks. But sometimes it's good to share things on these networks in a truly private way. That's what https://neko.io/ is for.<p>Neko.io lets you write and post secret messages to social networks and other online services. You control who of your friends can actually read the posted messages. If the true friendship ends, you can also revoke their right to read the messages. All this without setting up or managing any circles, lists, groups or flocks in the various social networks.<p>To protect your privacy Neko.io does not ask your name, e-mail or any other personal information - not even a username and password. Neko.io is neither saving nor storing your messages in itself. Instead, the messages are stored at whichever service or system you post them to. For keeping you and your friends safe and your messages secure, Neko.io uses the Mepin secure sign in service - https://www.mepin.com/. Mepin doesn’t collect any of your personal information and it lets you use your smartphone, tablet or a special Mepin USB key to sign in.<p>Share your sensitive thoughts, moments, info or blunders publicly but privately with Neko.io ====== markkum Clickable links; <https://neko.io/> <https://www.mepin.com/> ------ Saavedro Looks like I can't use this without an iOS device. ~~~ markkum Unfortunately this is true for now. Obviously we are going to launch other device support and means to sign in. I hope you left a vote at the site about your preferred device platform.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
YouTube has an equalizer in their favicon - willfarrell https://www.youtube.com/ ====== willfarrell Play any music video to see.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Is experience better than talent? - manny21 http://www.nickhalstead.com/2008/01/16/is-experience-better-than-talent/ ====== WenomousVit Who says there is any clear line between experience and talent? Research into the workings of the brain has actually been pointing the other way: people who are described as "talented" in a particular area have put tremendous effort into becoming so -- that is to say, they have experience. ------ Hexstream talent = passion X dedication I don't even know where to fit experience in that formula... As Joel Spolsky (I think) said, beyond 6 months experience in a language it doesn't matter much anymore. ~~~ rrival There are a lot of useless, passionate, dedicated people running around (misguided != talented). I prefer to avoid them. ~~~ Hexstream We must have _very_ different definitions of "useless", "passionate" and "dedicated". Here are mine: Useless: Inconsequential, meaningless, that has no useful result. Passionate: Derives genuine happiness and a feeling of fulfilment when doing some particular thing. Dedicated: Demonstrates perseverence and involvement in a nontrivial task, spanning a nontrivial amount of time. Per those definitions, I don't see how someone can possibly be simultaneously useless, passionate and dedicated. ~~~ rrival One could split hairs here indefinitely, especially debating the nature of what being useful means and to whom. ------ edw519 "Anyone who’s says that they can keep up the same levels at 50 as they were at 20 is lying." Wrong! This same stupid remark finds it way onto this board about once a month or so, and I generally give this response: We are NOT basketball players. We do not "lose it" after 30. In fact, the best of us get BETTER with age. Live a clean life and you should be just as good a hacker at 80 as at 20. OP is asking the wrong question. A better question might be, "What happens when someone talented amasses more experience?" I'll tell you what. They learn to better leverage their talent and produce MORE. They don't repeat stupid mistakes (they make new stupid mistakes). They know themselves better and can better anticipate what to expect from themselves, others, and situations. They learn to love what they love even more. Oh, what's the use. You won't believe me until you're 50. I just hope you stay far enough away from drugs, junk food, and stupid excesses so that you can experience what I already know for yourself. It'll be great!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Understand and improve your sleep health - ruthienachmany https://www.jointherest.com ====== breck Interesting. Improving sleep is something I can't recommend enough. I don't see step #1 as "wear a sleep tracker". IMO that should be #1. I've been wearing sleep trackers since 2014 (first the MS Band, then Band 2, then Charge 2 and now Ionic after MS discontinued the band). So I have 5 years of data (approaching 2 thousand night's worth of data!), which makes analysis and recommendations and experiments far easier. Maybe you do incorporate that later on in the flow, but I was surprised I didn't see it on page 1. ~~~ ruthienachmany Hey! So cool that you have that much data :) Would love to hear more about your thoughts if you're open to chatting - [email protected] ------ data4lyfe You guys should have some more content. It's not believable at the moment that it's anything more than the typical stuff I read about on the internet. Think podcasts, long-form testimonials, what it's about, etc... ~~~ ruthienachmany Hey! Thank you for sharing that. I'd love to hear more about what kind of content would be interesting if you're open to chatting - [email protected].	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Lyft is testing monthly subscriptions for riders - prostoalex https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/15/lyft-is-testing-monthly-subscriptions-for-riders/ ====== v1vek Given that I am planning to use Uber/Lyft for the commute - this seems great. My monthly parking costs are already $325 per month and given that my one-way commute using uber costs 20 - 25 this is what I need to stop driving. So how do I get an invite for this ?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
9 reasons to start using C++11 - Tatyanazaxarova http://www.cpprocks.com/2012/05/07/9-reasons-to-start-using-c11/ ====== haberman Pretty much everything in C++11 sounds extremely cool and useful. It seems like the committee did their homework; from what I can see all of the new features are well-designed and thought through. Lots of things that were verbose or inefficient before are fixed, and as a result the language will be more expressive. But I just have this nagging worry that C++ is going to collapse under its own weight. C++ was already the most complicated language in common use IMO (except possibly Perl); with C++11 there are more keywords, more constructs, more variations. I just hope this doesn't make C++ seem totally unapproachable to beginners, or too hard to keep up with for people who are already using it. ~~~ JoeAltmaier I'd have liked better ptr features. The auto-cleanup is good. Is it flexible enough to do other things like: auto-close (a file ptr); auto-deref (a ref- counted thing); auto-unlock (a critical section) etc? ~~~ mkl All of these can be done in a class's destructor, which is called when the object is deleted, e.g. when a shared_ptr's ref-count reaches 0 (i.e. there are no references to it left). To express observation (and break cycles) there is weak_ptr, and to express ownership there is unique_ptr. IMO the new pointer stuff is excellent, and relieves the large majority of the memory management burden. ~~~ reddit_clone There are some boost macros which will run clean up code at the end of the scope if you prefer. They are not pretty. But they work. (This is a life saver in a long function with multiple exit points) ------ CrLf What I would like to see is a (convincing) list of why use C++ (in new projects) at all. In my opinion (and experience) when you need the performance advantages of C++, you are usually within the domain where C is good enough (and perhaps a better choice for its simplicity). When you need the features of C++, you are probably better off with something like Python (not specifically, but in the same "league"). Seeing how easy it is to use a higher-level language combined with C for critical sections, I just don't see the point of C++ anymore. Disclaimer: I don't really like C++. The only pleasant experience I had with it involved ignoring the STL completely and using Qt (<http://qt.nokia.com/>). I like C though. ~~~ norswap C is good and simple but C is not expressive. There are a whole hosts of situation where code has to be duplicated or slightly modified. For instance, it's really hard to do good generic data structures in C without ending up with casts everywhere. Polymorphism is even worse. For me, that really is the edge that C++ holds over C. ~~~ CrLf Like the old saying, "you can write cobol in any language". Polymorphism and "good generic data structures" (in the sense you are implying) are not a necessary requirement of elegant and maintainable code. It is part of the problem that programmers have taken OO concepts as the end-all of good code, and must apply those concepts everywhere even if that means implementing them from scratch at the cost of (unnecessary) complexity. Large systems have been written in C. Many large open-source projects use C. There is no evidence that these are less maintainable (in general) because of language choices. Some of these graft OO concepts onto C. GTK is noticeable for this (although it doesn't seem to be too bad for application developers, I'm afraid for those tasked to maintain the libraries themselves). Procedural programming is not a sin (if "procedural programming" exists at all today, as most of the simplest object concepts have become common practice and are now though as an integral part of it). ~~~ cygx _Like the old saying, "you can write cobol in any language"._ As far as I know, there is no such 'old saying'. However, _The determined Real Programmer can write FORTRAN programs in any language._ ------ webreac Of course, if you are a C++ programmer, you should migrate to C++11 as soon as possible. But do not forget that the improvements given by C++11 do not void all the reasons to not use C++ at all. Avoid C++ if you can. ~~~ okamiueru As has been said a million times, C++ covers applications that are not really suited for any other language. This applies to C as well. As much as newer languages come about, in the end, you are working with a Von Neumann machine, of which both C and C++ are well suited for. The only problem with C++ as far as I can tell is that you need to know a lot, not to make mistakes. There are too many ways to do things, that if you don't know what you are doing, you are probably going to do things wrong. However, once you _do_ know, and use libraries like Boost, I think it is difficult to come up with a reason why not to use C++ for lower level programming, with performance requirements. ~~~ webreac The problem is that the prerequisite does not apply only to you, but also to all your team. It is ok to use C++ for lower level programming with performance requirements if all the development team knows very very well C++. Even if you fill these conditions during initial development of a project, during the maintenance years, you always happen to have a not so well educated developer. C++ use is a very narrow market. ~~~ okamiueru Code practices and code reviews help with getting beginners up to speed and not clutter the code base. If you remove all experienced developers with inexperienced ones? Surely this will cause problems in any language. Also, I'll have to disagree with C++ being a narrow market. Just the market where C/C++ is almost required (high performance or low level) is large enough as it is. Then there is the discussion of which language is _more_ suited for a given task when you are doing higher level stuff that doesn't have high performance requirements. It might be wasted resources to put people with high knowledge of C/C++ to that kind of tasks. As for the language itself, in terms of productivity; _if_ the developers are experienced, I don't see any problem with it. With help from Boost and/or Qt, it is as easy as writing python (almost, sometimes :) ). ------ option_greek Unfortunately as the number of new projects involving C++ keeps going down, the fields in which C++ jobs are available are getting narrower every year. Almost all middleware is now written in Java. C# took over the frontend development on Windows. New openings in C++ seem limited to quant fields (bank backends on linux) and driver development. ~~~ NickPollard And Games. AAA game dev (for PC and Console) is almost entirely C++, with some embedded scripting languages (normally Lua, for performance reasons). ------ k4st One of the reasons I like C++ is that it lets you throw away type safety and still maintain it through abstraction. This sounds awful, so let me explain. In one project, I implemented an EDSL for performing a destructuring bind on a string (CFG production, actually). The types of the components of the pattern determined what the pattern would actually match. This was all done in a previous version of C++, so I didn't have variadic templates available. I also didn't want to heap allocate the internals of patterns. What I did was to store an array of void pointers and a function pointer as private fields within a pattern class. When constructing the pattern, pointers to the things to which parts of the string to be bound were put into the array, thus throwing away their types. BUT, the function pointer pointed to a static method in of a class template, which only operated on the array of void pointers in a type-safe way, precisely because it was compiled with the knowledge of the types. I use this type of subversion when appropriate, and it's often a very convenient solution to an otherwise tricky problem. Such a thing would either not be possible--or be incredibly inconvenient--in C. It's often very useful to treat different stuff uniformly, knowing that your abstractions can maintain type safety. ------ simias Is there a resource somewhere listing which compilers support which features of C++11? Or do all major compilers already support the new standard? Portability is probably the main reason I'm concerned about switching my codebase to the new standard... ~~~ nonsequitur C++11 support in common compilers: <http://wiki.apache.org/stdcxx/C++0xCompilerSupport> ~~~ simias Thanks to you both, that what I was looking for. ------ cageface C++ is very much a mixed bag but the new features in the C++11 standard do help a lot. The "auto" keyword and range-based for loops alone have decluttered my code quite a bit. The new smart pointers make me nervous after the auto_ptr fiasco but they seem to be working fine in my code so far. I'm looking forward to trying out the lambdas as soon as they hit in XCode. ~~~ okamiueru The BOOST_FOREACH has helped declutter my code a lot as well. After getting used to it, I feel it expresses intent better than a for loop with auto begin- end. ------ toemetoch 3 questions before moving to C++11 \- which architectures is the author discussing when he talks about performance gains, what are the ISA requirements and numbers? \- what compilers are supporting it? \- why is it good to have "magic" happening in the background? E.g. reason 4 is not something I'd promote. ~~~ JamesLeonis I can answer 2 and 3 2\. Apache maintains a list of which compilers support what. <http://wiki.apache.org/stdcxx/C%2B%2B0xCompilerSupport> 3\. The auto keyword isn't supposed to be magic. Rather it's for catching complex types that aren't easily to discover, such as the returns of template functions and iterators, and making it easier on the programmer by not forcing the typing out of long types. The type is resolved at runtime (as best as I am able to tell) and can help clean up some of the messiness of template programming. ~~~ pja No, the type implied by an auto declaration is resolved at compile time. ~~~ JamesLeonis DOH! My mistake! Thanks for the catch. ------ tseabrooks As a long time C++ / C programmer I love every feature here... except one. I really abhor the new auto keyword. Perhaps it's personal taste (I also dislike the "Var" in JS). It really seems to make the code harder to follow with only minimal advantages (that I can see / use/ etc). ~~~ 16s While I understand the reason for auto, and see the benefit in less typing, etc, I still do it the old-fashioned waytoo. I prefer be explicit. ------ johnx123-up Any good IDE and references?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Can a language have Lisp's powerful macros without the parentheses? - BrandonM ====== pg It would have to have some notation for parse trees, and if that wasn't s-expressions, it would probably be something less convenient, not more. ~~~ BrandonM I had a sneaking suspicion that that was the case. This reminds me of something that an Associate Professor at Ohio State said when I was presenting on a mathematical tool that I was (and am) implementing. He couldn't remember the order of operations, so he was having trouble parsing the statement: (forall x, y in Z)(x >= y AND x <= y ==> x = y) That led him to ask why should I not just include the unnecessary parens, i.e. ((x >= y AND x <= y) ==> x = y), which then led to the question of where to stop adding parentheses. Finally, he recalled talking to another professor who made the case that having rules for order of operations is a bad idea (because those rules have to be memorized), and why not just parenthesize everything? I pointed out, of course, that he was almost exactly describing Lisp. That thought, however, led me to consider the idea of making order of operations always evaluate left-to-right, except for parenthesized expressions, which would be evaluated first (in the same manner). Leveraging this idea, perhaps it would be possible to escape the hold of exclusively using s-expressions? My main goal would be to write a general-purpose language which could be used for writing _any other_ language by using the macro facilities, instead of being forced to write Lisp-like languages as appears to be the case with Lisp. Of course, maybe to get that general, you may as well simply use lex and yacc to write a compiler. Well, anyways, these are mostly just ramblings, and I'm glad to see that others are interested in this idea. ~~~ nostrademons "That thought, however, led me to consider the idea of making order of operations always evaluate left-to-right" Smalltalk does something similar. In Smalltalk, any infix operator is just a binary message send, and they're parsed left to right. So for example, 12 + 6 / 3 results in 6 instead of 14. This result seems perfectly natural to most Smalltalkers, but it drives me nuts. Personally, I think it's important to consider the audience when designing a programming language (or anything, really). Operator precedence is totally illogical and adds lots of unnecessary complexity - but it's drilled into people's heads from elementary school onwards. It's like Qwerty keyboards, American date formats, and English spelling. In most cases, though, it's better to work with people's illogical expectations than to say "No, you're wrong, here's a better way." Perhaps that's why Lisp never caught on. ~~~ BrandonM "In most cases, though, it's better to work with people's illogical expectations.... Perhaps that's why Lisp never caught on." I appreciate the insight here. I think that if the goal is to create a general-purpose programming language for consumption by the average population, it might be better to meet the expectations of the average person. I'm not saying that it needs to be C-like necessarily, but I think that you're right that things like order of operations and other expectations should probably be properly preserved, at least for mathematical operations. I also realized that my approach was still wrong. If the goal is to be able to build _any_ programming language, the left-to-right approach would already be limited to building a language which evaluates from left-to-right. So it seems that I still have work to do in order to figure out how best to design a language which is able to look like whatever the user desires it to. One possibility is to sacrifice ease of macro-writing for making other areas of the language more consistent (but not Lisp-like). That is, I would like to keep the expressive power of macros high (even if it involves modifying the read table in some way) while keeping the language intuitive for a beginner. This would likely make it a bit more difficult to write macros, but by the time you are using macros a lot, you are probably a bit more advanced, anyways. I'm thinking that there has to be some kind of grammar theory that I can leverage here, where the programmer could actually modify the language's parser in the program while maintaining consistency and lack of ambiguity, or being alerted to the potential ambiguity in case they fail to. In any case, I am quite convinced that Lisp is probably one of the most ideal languages. This means that my hypothetical language may be an example of the phenomenon pg describes, where the best languages are those which are designed for use by the designer, and languages like Java and Cobol are the result of designing for others. I would like to hope that's not the case here, since I'm approaching this with a use-case in mind: to design a language which can be used to design any other language. ------ inklesspen Yes, it can. <http://www.livelogix.net/logix/intro.html> Logix is built on Python and compiles down to Python bytecode, so you can use it with Python modules, but it has macros that I think are probably as powerful as Lisp's. It's meant for DSLs. ~~~ brlewis Could you give an example that's more powerful? From the 60-second intro you linked to, these look no more powerful than C's macros. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_preprocessor#Macro_definition_and_expansion> ~~~ inklesspen I don't use it myself; I just had it in my bookmarks. I am also not very familiar with Lisp's macros. You may find something of interest in the more complete documentation. Sorry. ------ BrandonM In a few of Paul Graham's essays and in some of my own experiences, I have found that Lisp is a very powerful language for hard programming problems, largely due to its powerful macro facilities. These macros give the programmer the power to create entirely new, domain-specific languages without too much difficulty. I am currently a Master's student and I hope to eventually be a founder, and my question is the title of this submission. I can understand why some people would shy away from Lisp, but I also see how many upcoming programmers appreciate the power of Python and Ruby. I believe, then, that the next big language will be one that combines the macros of Lisp with the ease of use of Python. I think that such a language would be perfect for startups. I am a glutton for punishment, so my graduate interests lie in programming languages. Here at Ohio State University, there is a language called RESOLVE that a lot of students don't like too much (it's built on top of C++ and is much too wordy), but it does have some interesting concepts built-in that I would like to put in a language of my own. In creating a new language, one of the things that would be first and foremost in my mind would be to ensure it had powerful macro capabilities, so I am interesting to hear your feedback on the viability of a language with powerful macros but fewer parentheses. ~~~ richcollins See the Io programming language: "Io is a small, prototype-based programming language. The ideas in Io are mostly inspired by Smalltalk (all values are objects), Self (prototype-based), NewtonScript (differential inheritance), Act1 (actors and futures for concurrency), LISP (code is a runtime inspectable/modifiable tree) and Lua (small, embeddable)." ~~~ johnm <http://iolanguage.com/> ~~~ BrandonM Thanks for the link. It looks pretty interesting; I'm installing it right now to play around with at some point. ------ dfranke I've never understood why this is such a popular question. Remember this remark from The Matrix? "After a while you don't even see the code. All you see is blonde, redhead..." Well, after a while you don't even see the parens. All you see is closure, continuation... Seriously, just start reading On Lisp and by the time you're half-way through it you'll be at this point. ~~~ BrandonM Oh, I totally get that. The "problem" is that of building languages on top of Lisp, which is really half of the point. The languages that can be trivially built on top of Lisp generally look like Lisp. I would like to be able to use a language with Lisp's capabilities to build a new language which looks completely different. I'm not really asking for an answer here; this is really just a thought exercise on my part that I thought I'd share. ------ richcollins In the io programming language you can generate code (message trees) at runtime and then eval them in any context that you want to. You can also pass messages trees (code) to a method without evaling it, and then modify it however you want beforing evaling it within whatever context you want. ------ monty My favorite approach was detailed here: "Growing Languages with Metamorphic Syntax Macros" <http://www.brics.dk/RS/00/24/> Monty	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
O'Reilly on "Web 2.0 and Cloud Computing" - razorburn http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/10/web-20-and-cloud-computing.html ====== mdasen There's an interesting note about amazon in there: "if Amazon intends to gain lock-in and true competitive advantage. . .". The thing that's missing is any history of Amazon going for lock-in. In fact, Amazon looks like the anti-lock-in company. They allow their competitors to sell in their site, used products to be sold alongside their new products, etc. The closest thing to lock-in that Amazon has tried is Amazon Prime in which you pay for 2-day shipping in a lump sum rather than as you go. Amazon's business has always been about efficiency and high-volume, low- margin. I don't see why their hosting business would end up different. In fact, Amazon seems perfectly comfortable with companies like RightScale selling on top of them. ~~~ bayareaguy _In fact, Amazon seems perfectly comfortable with companies like RightScale selling on top of them._ Just because Amazon has nothing to fear from their customers doesn't mean the reverse is true - Amazon just announced they are starting to add the kind of monitoring and management features to EC2 which RightScale provides, making EC2 more attractive and forcing RightScale to do more to differentiate themselves.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
OpenAI Universe - sama https://universe.openai.com ====== llSourcell Hey guys, it's Siraj. OpenAI asked me to make a promotional video for it on my Youtube channel and I gladly said yes! You can check it out here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGYU5t8MO7s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGYU5t8MO7s) ~~~ hacker_9 Nice video, but the jump from solving super simple 2d games, by feedback of binary win/lose conditions, to solving tasks in 3d open world simulations will require an un-imaginably gigantic leap in processing and knowledge. Additionally neural nets have already shown they are not sufficiently good enough at generalizing, and only work well at the specific tasks they were trained for. So the idea that an AI that can play GTA would also be able to 'solve' climate change is odd. ~~~ altrus I'm far from an expert, but I thought the poor generalized performance of neural nets was largely associated with the complexity of the network (number of neurons, etc), and the training data. Is there something more specific about the application of neural nets to generalized problems that makes them unsuitable? ------ mulcahey With this platform (and Gym) it seems like a large part of their strategy for "democratizing AI" is to grow the amateur research community. By making it easier for an individual to play around and conduct experiments, they are hoping enable progress to emerge from anywhere instead of just from wealthy companies and elite universities. It is also a great way to be able to track and organize what is being created rather than having to sort through amateur projects scattered across the web or research publications that often lack accompanying code. Edit: Some key ways they're making it easier for amateurs: * Starting point for problems to solve * Way to get noticed (instead of needing a university/company brand) * Technological infrastructure for building and testing. The diversity of tools they brought together to build this platform is very impressive. ------ d_burfoot Disclaimers: I cannot see the future. These are just my opinions. I really appreciate the work and money that SamA, Elon, and others have put into the OpenAI project. The Universe work in particular might help encourage young people, many of whom love video games, to study AI. But I feel that contrarians, such as myself, have an ethical commitment to young people to voice our doubts and criticisms, so that they can avoid making a long journey down a career/research path that leads to a dead end. That being said, I think this project leads in a very unpromising direction. Here are some reasons: 1\. Games aren't a good testbed for studying intelligence. In a game the main challenge is to map an input percept to an output action (am I drifting off the side of the road? Okay swerve right). The real challenge of intelligence is to find hidden abstractions and patterns in large quantities of mostly undifferentiated data (language, vision, and science all share this goal). 2\. This platform is not going to help "democratize" AI. To succeed in one of these domains, contestants will need to use VAST amounts of computing power to simulate many games and to train their DL and/or RL algos. DeepMind and others will sufficient CPU/GPU power will almost certainly dominate in all of these settings. 3\. Deep Learning, as it is practiced, isn't intellectually deep. With a few exceptions, there is nothing comparable to the great discoveries of physics, not even anything comparable to the big ideas of previous AI work (A*, belief propagation, VC theory, MaxEnt, boosting, etc). Progress in DL mostly comes from architecture hacking: tweak the network setup, run the training algo, and see if we get a better result. The apparent success of DL doesn't depend on any special scientific insight, but on the fact that DL algos can run on the GPU. That, combined with the fact that, except for the GPU, Moore's Law broke down roughly 10 years ago, means that relative to everything else, DL looks amazingly successful - because all other approaches to AI are frozen in time in terms of computing power. ~~~ hacker_9 _" Deep Learning, as it is practiced, isn't intellectually deep. With a few exceptions, there is nothing comparable to the great discoveries of physics ... Progress in DL mostly comes from architecture hacking: tweak the network setup, run the training algo, and see if we get a better result."_ To be fair isn't this what physicists do all day at CERN too? Smash some particles together, analyse the numbers, try to find patterns, tweak a few things and try again? ~~~ pakl I take the point to be that there aren't "deeper" fundamental principles at play in these models. Tremendous progress has comes from simply tweaking of the numbers of layers, or how the feed forward to each other (skipping layers, etc), or by throwing more computer power or data at the same basic algorithm. Where might we look for deeper principles? One idea is to consider what brains do and how they might be doing it. (I'm not saying we need to go down the rabbit hole of biological detail -- on the contrary I'm suggesting we look at known or even hypothesized principles of brain operation and import them into AI.) Two ideas we have used in our work: prediction (over time), recurrent feedback (most brain regions have more feedback than feedforward inputs) ~~~ noobermin As a physicist judging from the outside, I share some your feeling. Are there general laws governing "learning"? Theorems? Are there "deeper" things to learn as humans? The thing is people in the field don't need heavy intuition or math. In some ways that's good (if you just want a result to utilize) and in others, it's bad (if you are a curious person). ~~~ pakl In a sense, I would say yes there are learning laws, but it's still early in codifying them. Along one axis, you could compare: supervised, semi-supervised, self- supervised and unsupervised learning. Along another axis, consider that there are versions of each method that take into account temporal/dynamic data, versus others that require randomly shuffled static data. In the current problems of visual perception, I think the field would benefit greatly a shift to focus on multiscale interaction/dynamics rather than on (static) statistics as it is currently (for more on this, see my colleague's blog: [1]). [1] Statistics and dynamics. ([http://blog.piekniewski.info/2016/11/01/statistics-and- dynam...](http://blog.piekniewski.info/2016/11/01/statistics-and-dynamics/)) ~~~ eli_gottlieb >In the current problems of visual perception, I think the field would benefit greatly a shift to focus on multiscale interaction/dynamics rather than on (static) statistics as it is currently (for more on this, see my colleague's blog: [1]). Your friend's blog has a lot of good insights that I've seen in the theoretical neuroscience and computational cognitive science literature as well. Where do you guys work? ~~~ pakl I work at LeEco US out of San Diego, and my colleagues work at other ML/AI companies also in San Diego. We originally met and collaborated at Brain Corporation. ------ flaviojuvenal Related but slightly off-topic, there is a great sci-fi story by Ted Chiang (the same author who made the story behind Arrival film) about humans raising AIs in an artificial world. The premise is that if we want AIs to act like humans, we must teach them like we teach humans: [http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2010/fiction_the_...](http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2010/fiction_the_lifecycle_of_software_objects_by_ted_chiang/) ~~~ noobermin The people who will end up raising AI's will not want them to act like humans. You already see it in their current uses. They create them to maximize profit. So, in a way, their owners (corporations) have created them in _their_ image. ------ state_less I'd love to see AI, using games, master the art of determining a depth for objects in the scene. If you ask a person, "about how far away is that car?", they often give you an okay answer that is at least in the same magnitude as the actual distance 1 m, 10 m, 100 m, 1000 m. If AI could do that, you could then navigate an environment in the real world better using only a camera or two. So you start with a virtual world that looks real, train up the bot, then use it to navigate in the real world. Has this already been accomplished? ~~~ pakl That's a great (and hard) problem! More generally, imagine AI that could learn the physics of the world. For example, if the ball is rolling away, the AI should be able to predict that the ball will look smaller on the next frame. Going further, if the ball is about to roll under a shadow, the AI should predict that the ball will become a darker shade of green. (After several years working in a robotics research company, these kinds of capabilities are exactly what we determined would be necessary for robot AI.) ~~~ state_less Agree, it's not easy. Learning the basics, for example projecting a rectangle with 3d coordinates to 2d coordinates, then feeding the 2d coordinates into a NN and ask for the (depth) third dimension. Can you teach the NN a perspective transform? Can you rotate the rectangle and recognize rotation. Can you add other rectangles to the scene and detect each? Can you add color and lighting to infer more properties and get better results? Shine some more info on the problem ;) These are like unit tests of AI (basic shapes and transforms) and I agree physical reckoning is at the top, one of the big tests that is a capstone and something beautiful to behold in nature (eg. sports). Maybe the a virtual soccer game at the end? From my lidar experience, I wanted to reach for a model rather than deal with noisy sensor data. I want to generate the output (3d world) with my model, then the NN learns the inverse (eg. the scene graph used to generate the scene). I enjoy thinking about this stuff, though it really makes my head spiral sometimes when I relate it to my own reality. It's easy to feel like you're losing touch. ~~~ chronic92 This is a trivially easy problem if you have stereo cameras, just like humans. ------ poppingtonic This is amazing! I was thinking of this problem when I saw a friend making a stop-motion video. The steps are super repetitive and I asked him, "maybe an DeepMind Atari-style RL agent can learn how to do this?" But I didn't want to do what DeepMind did to emulate Atari games with an Adobe editing tool. This is an experiment that I can now run. ~~~ halflings Never saw how stop-motion videos are edited. What's so repetitive? I thought that once you've taken all your pictures, you just put them sequentially and removed any frames that seemed off. Maybe you also need to decide how much time to leave every frame? ~~~ poppingtonic This is true, but some are more complex, which is also due to the choice of tool. For example, [1], made by Chris King, using Adobe Premiere. This is a time-lapse of the process that he used to make parts of [2]. Notice the pattern that emerges when sequential images start lining up. [1] [https://youtu.be/M7Hr83OI-rs](https://youtu.be/M7Hr83OI-rs) [2] [https://youtu.be/1-rFV_d6RH8](https://youtu.be/1-rFV_d6RH8) ------ Cybiote This is astounding! If requests are being taken, it would be useful to be able to search through the listed environments. And a poker environ for the internet section would be a good balance of fun, widely appreciable and a straight forward but very non- trivial environment. ~~~ Romajashi you'll lose your job and will be replaced by AI. Astounding? ------ NhanH This is a bit out there, but it would be fun if OpenAI can get one of the mega popular multiplayer games under this (WoW, League of Legends, DOTA etc.). Imagine an AI team in League of Legends world championship! ~~~ conradev ICYMI, DeepMind partnered with Blizzard to do this for StarCraft II: [https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-and-blizzard-release- star...](https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-and-blizzard-release-starcraft-ii- ai-research-environment/) ------ shykes This is perhaps my favorite use of Docker ever. ~~~ tlb We've been pushing hard on some parts of Docker, and it's working pretty well. For example, reconfiguring iptables depending on what game you ask for. And it works fine to test things like that on my MacBook and then deploy to Kubernetes. Amazing. ------ jclay I noticed the OpenAI team wrote their own VNC driver in Go for performance reasons[0]. I would love to hear more about how they were able to achieve increased performance over other VNC drivers. [0][https://github.com/openai/go-vncdriver](https://github.com/openai/go- vncdriver) ~~~ gdb We wrote it for somewhat subtle reasons. First, there aren't too many alternatives out there — VNC is meant for human consumption, not for bots after all :). Second, for a single connection, once you're using Tight encoding, the bottleneck becomes server-side encoding and libjpeg-turbo, neither of which will depend on your driver. As you scale to many connections, the important thing becomes managing the parallelism well. Go is great for this. We'd started by adapting an existing Python driver in Twisted, implementing additional encodings and offloading to threads for calls into C libraries like zlib. We got this working reasonably on small environments like Atari, but for environments which generated many update rectangles, we started to be bitten by the GIL. I still believe that one _could_ make Python work, but it'd take quite a lot of effort. libvncserver is a fast C driver, but it's GPL, and doesn't have any particular support for parallelization. We wanted Universe to be usable by everyone, from hobbyists to companies, so GPL was a no-go. (We actually talked to the libvncserver maintainers, who said that they would be interested in dropping GPL restriction, but there have been far too many contributors over its long history to figure out how to do so.) Our Go driver, based on [https://github.com/mitchellh/go- vnc](https://github.com/mitchellh/go-vnc), has scaled quite well. It takes advantage of Go's lightweight thread model: each connection runs in its own goroutine, which makes it easy to run hundreds of connections in parallel without needing hundreds of threads. ------ soared [http://reddit.com/r/WatchMachinesLearn](http://reddit.com/r/WatchMachinesLearn) is about to get a lot more popular. I can't wait. Also from the linked blog post, you can play with (against?) your agent in realtime: >You can keep your own VNC connection open, and watch the agent play, or even use the keyboard and mouse alongside the agent in a human/agent co-op mode. ------ minimaxir Interesting announcement timing at 10:30 PM PST on a Sunday. :P The list of third-party gaming partners is extremely impressive, and a Docker config helps resolve the dependency hell that some of the AI packages require. ~~~ mappingbabeljc We wanted people at NIPS in Barcelona to have something nice to read over their morning coffee and such. [I work at OpenAI - @jackclarksf on Twitter] ~~~ Hydraulix989 Well, you just got a few extra followers. ------ Hydraulix989 What is state of the art in reinforcement learning right now? [https://arxiv.org/abs/1602.01783](https://arxiv.org/abs/1602.01783) Is there a way to deal with "sparse" training data (state, action, reward) triples -- sparse in "state"? ~~~ sapphireblue Looks like the "UNREAL" ([https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.05397](https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.05397)), "Learning to reinforcement learn" ([https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.05763](https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.05763)) and "RL^2" ([https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.02779](https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.02779)) are state of art in pure RL for now. Finally there is a trend of using recurrent neural network as a top component of the Q-network. Perhaps we will see even more sophisticated RNNs like DNC and Recurrent Entity Networks applied here. Also we'll see meta-reinforcement learning applied to a curriculum of environments. ~~~ Hydraulix989 The crazy thing is that these stacked model architectures are starting to become another layer of "lego blocks" so to speak. ------ CodinM I'll just go on a limb and consider this to be fucking awesome. ------ grondilu All the listed PC games environments are tagged as "coming-soon" [https://universe.openai.com/envs#pc_games](https://universe.openai.com/envs#pc_games) ------ cing End game; I'd really like an AI agent for "in real life" tabletop games (like boardgames). ~~~ iampherocity I call those friends. ~~~ ctchocula There are hardcore boardgames you will find difficult to find human players willing to play with you. Campaign for North Africa takes 8-10 players and has an estimated playing time of 1000 hours [1]. An excerpt of a review written for this game: > Are you a logistics major? Are you masochistic? Do you think that the > calculations required to play a game should take longer than actually moving > the units? Then do I have a game for you! Get yourself a copy of The > Campaign for North Africa, and say goodbye to the family for a couple of > months, if not years. The Campaign for North Africa is the most detailed game that I have ever played. It isnt necessarily the most complicated, but for sheer size of the detail and planning involved, it is by far the most laborious and detail- oriented game that has ever been produced. As a first example, this is the only game that I know of that differentiates between British and German jerry cans for fuel. More about this later on. The Campaign for North Africa is Richard Berg and SPIs simulation of the war in North Africa in the Second World War. The seven foot long mapsheet (divided into five sections), two sets of rulebooks, charts and tables galore and, oh yes, thousands of counters complete the game in a nice sturdy box, not the usual SPI flat game holder that falls apart. Most of this is standard SPI fare, with the functional but not pretty counters, standard three column style SPI rulebooks, and a fairly attractive map that does an excellent job of creating an epic sense of scale. True, this is the desert, and most of it is desolate, but the numerous tracks and roads, the coastal plains and mountains, and the railroad (both already built and railroad you can build as the game goes on) all combine to present an appealing picture of the area. Each turn is one week of time, and each turn is broken down several stages. There is an initiative determination, naval convoy stage, stores expenditure stage, and then three operations stages. The Ops Stages are where most of the activity occurs. There are also stages that are used in the air game. I did not play the Air Game for the purpose of this review, but did play with the advanced logistics. The game also includes on of each type of chart, which can be used to make copies. I made my own in Excel. There are charts for Division and Brigade organization, truck convoy sheets, naval convoy sheets, prisoner sheets, broken down and destroyed vehicle sheets, supply dump sheets, sheets for the air game and more. I even created a couple of my own for production and independent units. As each Division in the game needs its own Org chart, which fit best on legal size paper, these are a lot of charts and sheets to keep track of. All of these must be filled out before the game even starts, and just setting up for the beginning of the game requires filling out hours (literally) of paperwork. And for heavens sake, dont use pen! Much of what you write in the charts at the beginning of the game will be erased by the end of the first turn. After every movement, every combat, just sitting there and doing nothing will require updating of the org charts for every unit in the game. [1] [https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/campaign-north- afri...](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/campaign-north-africa) ~~~ ishi That sounds horrible. It also sounds like a game that should definitely be played on a computer, not as a board game. ~~~ nannal I don't know about you, but I love playing unreal tournament by moving rocks around on the ground similar to [https://xkcd.com/505/](https://xkcd.com/505/) ------ noobermin >other applications Any applications with a keyboard and mouse? Can I use emacs and have it start learning to code? ~~~ moconnor Sure, just define a good score function... ~~~ levesque That should be easy, I'll need a 5 million dollar grant and 5 years. ~~~ dagw How much do you need to train a model to write grant applications for 5 millions dollars or more over 5 years. ------ jakozaur Browser tasks seems to be a greenfield field with amazing potential. What if AI can do anything what can human do you with a browser over the phone? Also love "bring your own Docker container format". ~~~ tianlins Well, if all GUI interactions can be automated, what would be our next human interface to computers/AIs? ~~~ robryk Voice in one direction and voice and graphics in the other? ------ aratno I just hope no self-driving vehicle is applying anything learned in GTA. ~~~ cpmsmith I can't recall where, but I read that Tesla or Google _were_ actually using GTA to train their self-driving cars, because it is a spectacularly advanced simulation of driving through an urban environment, so they didn't have to build their own. ~~~ seasonedschemer That would be the Berkeley DeepDrive project. [http://deepdrive.io/](http://deepdrive.io/) and [http://bdd.berkeley.edu/](http://bdd.berkeley.edu/). ~~~ cr4zy deepdrive.io creator here - I'm actually not affiliated with the Berkeley project of the same name. There's also a DeepDriving at Princeton plus plenty of other (mostly perception) projects using GTAV, so it can be confusing. I'm hoping the GTAV for self-driving car efforts can start to standardize around the Universe integration though. Having worked on it, I can say firsthand that the Universe architecture is definitely amenable to sending radar, lidar, controlling the camera, bounding boxes, segmentation, and other types of info that the various sub-fields of self-driving are interested in. Super-excited to see how people use it! ------ swah Layman question: isn't adjusting "hyperparameters" similar to writing a algorithm for playing a game, using human intelligence? Related to the blog post: [https://openai.com/blog/universe/](https://openai.com/blog/universe/) ~~~ tlb It depends how many hyperparameters there are. Many popular general-purpose ML algorithms have only a handful of numbers for hyperparameters, so they don't embody much human input. And they can sometimes be tuned automatically. Also, an algorithms that can learn 100s of different games with the same hyperparameters is more highly regarded than one that needs different hyperparameters for each. ------ BaronSamedi Unless I missed something it looks like the AI has to learn from screen pixels instead of getting game state data. I don't like that approach at all. I understand that it's easy to implement for OpenAI but I think having the game developers provide a real bot-capable API is much better. I hope the latter is what Blizzard will provide for their DeepMind collaboration. ~~~ mtgx Seems unlikely. The focus seems to be on improving AI through "vision". The idea is to make the AI learn skills the same way a human would (at least in the first years of life). Google's AlphaGo also learned from screen pixels. So these would be _human-like_ bots, rather than _bot-like_ bots, like you normally have in games. The bot would simply learn by doing, until it masters the game, not by getting access to game algorithms. ~~~ SamBam > Google's AlphaGo also learned from screen pixels. Source? That literally seems to make zero sense to me. Go can be represented in a super-simple state. Why make it spend millions of cycles learning to categorize pixels into that state you already have? ~~~ tiler I would guess that they trained AlphaGo from many thousands of hours of match footage. Writing a computer vision script to segment / extract the data may cost cycles as you say, but would save many human hours by eliminating the need to re-watch the footage and literally type out state information for each move. ~~~ ironrabbit Alphago was actually trained directly on game state (plus some extra computed state like "how many liberties will I have if I play this move" or "will I win this ladder"). A huge number of pro games (and countless amateur games) are available on servers like KGS in a nice computer-digestible format. ------ thallukrish Being able to "Infer" from what it learns and "Apply" it to new scenarios in a general way is all about intelligence. I do not see how making it to win one game or one million will move it towards achieving general intelligence of this sort. ------ iotb Does OpenAI Universe communicate in any way with OpenAI remotely regarding activity in OpenAI Universe? Essentially, are there any call-home aspects to the code base? Or, is it possible to run this locally without any outside communication? If there is remote communication, can you detail why and where it exists in code? ~~~ gdb We don't call home. Once you've downloaded the Docker container, the only outbound network traffic should be downloading the requested SWF once for Flash games on demand (or for actually playing the game online, in the case of e.g. Slither). You can cache the SWF if you don't want it to be downloaded each time you start a new container. Other than SWF downloading or specific Internet-enabled environments, running offline should just work. ------ mariusz79 I might be wrong but I think this was created mainly to monitor progress in AI research. If someone uses OpenAI Universe and can get better results than virtually everyone else, they will be able to get to them first. ~~~ mrfusion Kind of like seti for ai if you think about it. I wonder if they have a protocol for what to do if they detect an advanced ai on their system? ------ NamTaf From my initial reading, the end user can't create environments? Is that a feature that I can expect will eventually come? ~~~ mappingbabeljc You can create environments - it's coming! We'll be releasing many components over next few months. ~~~ lawless123 Brilliant :) ------ naveen99 Too bad Iphone doesn't support a vnc server. Would be nice to add some android apps if they could get permission. ------ mrfusion Is the users ai responsible for parsing the screen pixels that come back or does each game give you relevant events? ------ dcslack Some designers from Stripe absolutely helped with the design of this page. ------ daveloyall Didn't we all agree to NOT let the AGI out of its box? ...That being said... Instead of presenting the agent with a 2d plane of pixels, they should be presented with a sphere of pixels, with their POV inside.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Linux distributions are more GNU than Linux - singaldhruv http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.en.html ====== singaldhruv Follow up reading: Why most common distros are frowned upon by GNU [http://www.gnu.org/distros/common- distros.html](http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html) ------ dozzie Oh yes, Stallman tends to think of Linux as mostly GNU and he likes to forget about non-GNU parts, which are as essential (X11 anyone? KDE, LXDE? systemd? Vim? etc.) Nothing to be excited about.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Dataflow Programming for Clojure with Pulsar - emidln http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/pulsar/#dataflow-reactive-programming ====== jgalt212 For me the most obvious use-case of Dataflow is converting a monster un- maintainable spreadsheet into something more robust and testable. Are there others out there that have worked the other way around? e.g. saw problem that best fits the Dataflow paradigm and built up from there? And perhaps said their problem was too small, better to just do all this in a spreadsheet that is maintained by someone who has Excel expertise and costs 1/2 to 1/3 of a Clojure programmer. ------ rem7 Clojure keeps getting all these cool features. I remember when I first found about channels in clojure and I got really excited. Just makes me want to go back and keep playing with it hoping some day I'll use it for something in production. ~~~ namelezz What excites you about channels in Clojure when you do not really have lightweight threads on the JVM? ~~~ coldtea Err, [http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/quasar/](http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/quasar/) among other things. ------ a3n Tangent: Are you a front end developer? This page shows some of what bugs me about what's happening to the web. It didn't used to be this way. My screenshots of this page: [http://imgur.com/a/v0Wmf](http://imgur.com/a/v0Wmf) I'm using FF on linux, and my browser occupies the left half of my screen. The first, top image is what that tab looked like when it was initially rendered. Everything jumbled on top of everything else. Maybe that's partly or totally FF's "fault", but it is where the page is going to be rendered for a significant portion of people, and it is what it is, despite what the page designer wishes. The second image is the browser in full screen mode. Everything readable. Big left and right whitespace columns, which is fine. In fact if the text stretched across the whole page that would have been its own readability problem. Notice the code sample, rendered in a box. There's a significant amount of whitespace on the right of the box, making the box wider than necessary. Notice the article text seems to take the width of the box. I don't know enough about the front end to want to figure whether that's the case, or if the text and box are taking the width of some more encompassing element. Either way, the third image is the browser un-fullscreened. Somehow the act of fullscreening and un-fullscreening made the page render sensibly. Yay. But now the text is cut off on the right. The text is flowing according to some element or directive that ignores browser width. _I hate this_ , particularly because it's so unnecessary. The fourth, final image is that page, rendered when the browser has styles turned off. It's so 90s! It's so readable! It also shows that it can be done. Had the page been designed with all its beautiful design elements (and they are beautiful), but rendered more to the browser than to some static design idea, we all would have been spared this rant, and I would be finished reading the article by this time. Won't you help? ------ alexkehayias Has anyone used this extensively and could share some experiences building with it? ~~~ pron See here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/3ir1bl/a_new_pulsa...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/3ir1bl/a_new_pulsar_release_with_dataflow_vars_for/)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
High Dietary Sugar Reshapes Taste to Promote Feeding Behavior in Fruit Flies - laurex https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(19)30492-9 ====== majkinetor This is one epic study. Thanks. ------ chabes What does an obese fly look like? ------ tmefq A bit clickbaity. "A high sugar diet decreases sweet taste sensation and blunted sweet taste promotes overconsumption and obesity", but that only applies to sugary stuff, and not to any kind of food; I'm sure it could apply to everything (like people who have to put too much salt in food because they've gotten used to it). ~~~ SketchySeaBeast I'd assume that as well, though there is mentioned that Sucralose and fat doesn't have that effect: "To probe whether taste deficits were due to high dietary sweetness, we examined the taste responses of animals fed a sweet, non-caloric sucralose diet. However, taste responses to sucrose remained unchanged in these flies (Figure 1C, dark green) and there was no fat accumulation (Figure S1F). Similarly, flies fed a calorically dense (1.4 calories/gram as the 30% high sugar diet), but not sweet, lard-supplemented diet accumulated fat (Figure S1G, lime green), but had normal taste responses (Figure 1C), indicating that sweetness or excessive calories alone are insufficient to lower sweet taste sensation. In contrast, only sweet and nutritious diets such as those supplemented with D-fructose, D-glucose, and sucrose promoted a decrease in sweet taste responses (Figure 1D)."	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
PSA: 5 Reddit accounts subpoenaed by ICE - r721 https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/30tudk/psa_5_reddit_accounts_subpoenaed_by_ice/ ====== r721 Discussed here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9291517](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9291517)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Babysitting the Economy (Paul Krugman) - bitops http://www.pkarchive.org/theory/baby.html ====== yvishyar If you cannot convince your point rationally, you bring a analogy into picture prove a point and then you conclude that since my point is proved in analogy my original theory is also proved. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy) someone has got to tell krugman about this.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Twitter’s Lack of Patents Seen as a Risk to Investors - RougeFemme http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-18/twitter-pre-ipo-patent-paucity-seen-posing-investor-risk-tech.html ====== alexqgb "If Twitter does deal with patent-infringement lawsuits, they don’t have too many patents to lean on to countersue. That does put Twitter at a disadvantage.” And there's the rub. ~~~ nhebb That's only the rub if the plaintiff is a producing entity. Some of the patent litigation has been from NPE's, and in others I can't imagine that there is often a tit-for-tat counter suit opportunity. My gut feel is that this article is taking a hot topic (the twitter IPO) and blowing one angle of it out of proportion. ------ thinkcomp Twitter's patent portfolio (not including patents not assigned to Twitter, Inc. that may be held by Twitter employee inventors): [http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/index.html?id=467846&tab...](http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/index.html?id=467846&table=patents) ------ adventured Apple's substantial patent trove didn't help them fend off Samsung (which just printed a nearly $10b profit quarter), and Twitter's patent position also will have absolutely nothing to do with their long term success or failure. There's no core patent that is just going to shut down their business tomorrow. Reid Hoffman & Co. are the only ones I know of with such a _potentially_ nuclear patent position, and they seemingly have zero interest in applying it offensively. There's a large patent lobby out there, and I generally assume this kind of article is mostly propaganda in favor of patents as some sort of huge competitive value. Facebook and Google as two simple examples, sure haven't been hurt by not being high on the list of patent issuers and patent suit launchers. ------ ChrisNorstrom Craigslist doesn't have any patents as far as I know and numerous companies from Microsoft (with Live.com expo) and Ebay (with Kijiji) as well as others (olx) have tried to de-thrown it and failed hilariously. Patents are not the only weapon businesses can use, there's always design, community, emotion, and the good ol fashion network effect. ~~~ joeblau Craigslist is making money though. ~~~ mkhpalm tou·ché ------ throwawaykf The link to the study in TFA is broken, but here are some more relevant studies: 1\. Study of startup patenting in various industries indicating entrepreneurs say patents help getting financing: [http://www.law.berkeley.edu/9135.htm](http://www.law.berkeley.edu/9135.htm) (There was controversy around this study, where VCs with an anti patent stance, such as Brad Feld, publicly disagreed with the analysis. As TFA shows, they are probably in the minority.) 2\. Study showing startups with patents more likely to get late stage financing and/or have a successful exit: [http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=802806](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=802806) 3\. Study (apparently -- it's paywalled unfortunately) showing startups with "stronger than typical" IP more likely to succeed: [http://m.iam- magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=ae1d78db-9c5e-4...](http://m.iam- magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=ae1d78db-9c5e-41aa-a4f9-161c7de6c9fb) (Note that the study was done by MIT Sloan and IPVision, an IP consulting firm, so something to keep in mind.) Keep in mind that all studies must necessarily make some assumptions to make sense of their data, and some assumptions may be more valid than others. Also, different data sets and different methodologies give different results. For instance, the 2007 paper in [2] found much lower patenting rates in software than did the 2008 survey in [1]. Yet the patent possession/success correlation is hard to doubt. In addition to [2] and [3], there are other papers, such as by Rosemary Zeidonis, that also show a robust correlation between patenting and eventual success in high tech industries. Also, there's a working paper by a Pepperdine professor showing firms with patents _four times_ more likely to succeed. I linked [2] particularly because it has a greater focus on the software industry. I do agree that Twitter's strength is in network effects, and so is less likely to be affected by issues affecting other startups. Just trying to show some numbers to explain why (some) investors see the lack of patents as worrying. However, the argument that the Innovators's Patent Agreement will attract the "best and brightest" is a false premise, handily disproved by Google and Facebook, just to pick two. It will attract a certain type of talent, maybe something Twitter is particularly looking for, but "best and brightest" is not necessarily it. ~~~ michaelt Yet the patent possession/success correlation is hard to doubt. How do you tell apart correlation and causality in studies like this? I mean, it seems to me patents are at their most useful when you have to make large upfront research investments, which is mandatory to get your foot in the door in some parts of the tech industry (IC fabrication) - but in other parts of the tech industry people would prefer to test the market with an MVP, and may be able to avoid a large upfront investment at all, so investors would tolerate higher risks of failure (iphone apps). So it's believable there could be confounding factors - how do studies control for them? ~~~ throwawaykf As far as I recall, most of these studies, especially [2], mostly just present their findings of a correlation, along with the data and any variables that may be relevant, without trying to prove causation. They may posit some tentative theories in their analyses, but are careful not to make any conclusions on those. However, your observation about many software startups would prefer to release an MVP and iterate rather than invest a lot of upfront work and patent is also borne out by data in [1] and in other studies, such as some of Bessen and Maskin's papers. I think Malandrew's sibling comment is also a very salient point, and combined with my hunch that a vast majority of startups (or, heck, software companies in general) are not doing particularly technically innovative work, it goes a long way in explaining the data in those papers. ------ ateeqs Patents aside, I feel Twitter does not have much in terms of innovation. ~~~ nonchalance Twitter may not have much in terms of technical innovation, but I believe that isn't Twitter's goal. Their true value lies in the news-making ability (you hear about many news events first reported on twitter and relatively few first reported on facebook or google+ or other social networks). And in that sense, they have much to offer. ~~~ johnchristopher I think Twitter's value reside in connecting people but I am not really sure about that. Frankly, I think once Twitter (and FB) removed their RSS streams they could no longer be fit to spread news in a efficient way or claim to be anything news- related/efficient-to-spread-news. I have a hard time using Twitter for its news-making ability. The noise is way too much preponderant. Its ability to quickly spread news depends on how close someone watches its subscribed streams and I am only checking it twice a day or every other day. But I am still using Twitter as a micro-blogging platform and I am only following real people and NASA streams. + I have a tendency to un-subscribe from streams that send too much information that are not related to the reason why I first subscribe or that send information every 20 minutes about anything they are doing (eg: William Gibson or Dresden Codak, because I want to hear stuff about their work, not their personal life tidbits... But people close to them might be more interested in tidbits than in comments on their work so I may be the one misusing Twitter). But is everything news-worthy then ? ~~~ nonchalance Actually, removing RSS streams is what makes twitter a business. They hold the keys to the data and can charge customers for access to the firehose. Your assumption is that the news consumption pattern ultimately dictates where the producers flock, which makes sense in the traditional journalistic business model. In a model where individual users contribute, the key factor is which platform gives users an easy way to speak (and I would argue that twitter has done a decent job at reducing the tweet friction) ~~~ johnchristopher > Actually, removing RSS streams is what makes twitter a business. They hold > the keys to the data and can charge customers for access to the firehose. Following on the analogy: to me they replaced a very good firehose (RSS) with a less efficient one. > Your assumption is that the news consumption pattern ultimately dictates > where the producers flock [...] What ? No, my consumption pattern dictates where I (a user) go. And it turns out Twitter as a news media don't work for me (not twitter's fault though). > In a model where individual users contribute, the key factor is which > platform gives users an easy way to speak (and I would argue that twitter > has done a decent job at reducing the tweet friction) I don't see how removing the RSS feeds makes it less easy for a user to contribute. (shouldn't users who contribute be named producers in that context ?) ~~~ ProblemFactory RSS feeds make it easier be only a reader. If you use the Twitter user interface to read the stream, reply and post buttons are right there. If you use an RSS reader, going to twitter to post something on your own takes an extra step. Also, RSS feeds make it easier to filter out advertising posts, whereas with the official API Twitter can ban clients which introduce Adblock. This assumes that at least some of the RSS users migrate to the official UI, instead of abandoning the platform. But it might be a reasonable tradeoff. ~~~ johnchristopher Nothing wrong with what you are saying but let's get back to what started this conversation: > Their true value lies in the news-making ability (you hear about many news > events first reported on twitter and relatively few first reported on > facebook or google+ or other social networks). And in that sense, they have > much to offer. My point is that regarding news it's more efficient and pratical for the consumer/reader to get them via RSS than via Twitter streams. I am only dealing with the 'getting news' pov here. The producer and the conversationalist issues aren't the same as those of the reader. ------ pearjuice A risk to investors? The only risk you have when "investing" (buying stocks) in Twitter is that you have to step out at its peek. All this IPO will be, is payout day. ------ krakensden Since everyone is just going to do it anyway, I'll start: Boo, hiss Now we can talk about something else. ------ ivanbrussik If Twitter were on Shark Tank right now, Mark and Robert and MR Wonderful would be out due to lack of patent. ~~~ nhebb To bolster @hayksaakian's point (plus I just like the name of the Chair position): _" The current state of patents and patent litigation in this country is shameful," said Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks. "Silly patent lawsuits force prices to go up while competition and innovation suffer. That's bad for consumers and bad for business. It's time to fix our broken system, and EFF can help. So that's why part of my donation funds a new title for EFF Staff Attorney Julie Samuels: 'The Mark Cuban Chair to Eliminate Stupid Patents'."_ [https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-patent-project- gets-h...](https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-patent-project-gets-half- million-dollar-boost-mark-cuban-and-notch) ~~~ throwawaykf I wouldn't put much weight behind Mark Cuban's words. He makes statements like the one you quoted and the next thing you know, he invests in a patent troll that's suing Google for hundreds of millions. ~~~ adventured Not just his words. He put money into the EFF as well. ~~~ throwawaykf He put 500K into EFF. And 2M+ in Vringo. Well, he's putting money and seems it's more where his mouth isn't. ------ volaski People who are saying stuff like patent doesn't mean anything as long as you have good community and network effect don't know what is going on here. Facebook owns a patent for activity feed. Theoretically Facebook can sue Twitter once Twitter goes public. Although it's not likely going to happen and it will be settled somehow even if it does happen, it's still an important factor for investors. ~~~ adventured If that were true, Facebook would have been better off destroying Twitter a long time ago. Not waiting until they pick up another $1.5 billion in cash to fight with and buy more patents with. Facebook doesn't have to wait for Twitter to go public. There's no benefit to waiting. Facebook would gain a lot more from killing Twitter (which is why they'd have sued years ago), than even if they won a billion dollars in a settlement via IPO cash. A billion dollars is meaningless to Facebook. What matters is owning social. ~~~ volaski What you say is all true. And what I say is true also. You're just talking from Facebook's point of view, and i'm talking from investors' point of view, which is what the article is talking about. As I also mentioned, it is unlikely that it will happen, but from an investor's point of view you cannot deny that it still is an existing risk. And I don't think it's nice to downvote someone else's comment just because you disagree ------ sheikhimran01 I still don't understand why is twitter going for IPO? They have zero innovation, Vine is apps for wasted people, Twitter users are not growing... $10 Billion is a lot for twitter. Facebook story was different cuz it has user locked into its system. twitter should not be worth more than $3 billion	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Put the “Ph” Back in PhD - pooya72 http://magazine.jhsph.edu/2015/summer/forum/rethinking-put-the-ph-back-in-phd/index.html ====== jimrandomh I don't think the problem is with PhDs failing to engage with philosophy, but rather, with the name "philosophy" having been hijacked and turned towards something that isn't worth studying. When you say students should learn more epistemology, I'm 100% on board - but when you say students should learn more "philosophy including epistemology", I suddenly anticipate them being exposed to a bunch of low-quality thinking reflecting long-dispelled confusions. Most of the good philosophy work has moved to other labels, like "rationality", out of a need to distance itself from the concentrated confusion being taught in universities. If you want to teach good philosophy, great! But please, please don't expose your students to the concentrated confusion that passes for most of philosophy; apply a strong filter and teach your students to apply that filter themselves. ~~~ littletimmy It may be that philosophy is not worth studying, but this is something a person has to realize for himself. As Wittgenstein said, it is a ladder that must be thrown away AFTER a person has used it. ~~~ jimrandomh Or... they could skip the Wittgenstein and go straight to Kahneman, Yudkowsky and Pearl. Why would you study something that you expected to later decide wasn't worth it, when there's so much good stuff? ~~~ littletimmy Mainly to identify the good stuff. So let's take the example of the subject political economy. Political economy has a rich philosophical tradition. You start at Hobbes, then you've got Locke, Rousseau, Smith, Marx, Ricardo, Mills, Keynes, Hayek, Friedman... Each of these philosophers cites a previous philosopher and has transformed our thinking of political economy in some way. You cannot just ignore all of them because then you'd have no clue about how the world came to be the way it is and when you read contemporaries you'd have no frame of reference. So, who do you eliminate? ~~~ jimrandomh There is a difference between learning philosophy, and learning the history of philosophy. We don't need more historians; we need people able to think clearly about hard questions. Not understanding how the world came to be the way it is would be unfortunate, but the opportunity cost of making everyone study history is just too high. ~~~ littletimmy Thinking about hard questions absolutely requires history, particularly in a field like economics. Studying macroeconomics without knowing the history of political economy is useless. ------ dbecker When Casadevall (and others) argue for more ethics and epistemology in the first year of a PhD program, they should be transparent that they would take away time and attention for much of the material currently taught in the first year of PhD programs. I'm not arguing that it's not a worthwhile tradeoff. I just wish we were more transparent about these tradeoffs when discussing what we add to a curriculum. ------ misnome I don't necessarily see that this is particularly relevant. The point of a PhD is surely to show that a student is _capable_ of performing at the very peak of their field. The well-roundedness should come later, and just like an undergraduate degree is not "Job Training" and postgraduate one doesn't instantly make you a leading scientist. Also, from what I saw of other students doing PhD's in the US, they already take several years longer than us in Europe because of the lack of specialisation in undergraduate degrees - they spend the first few years in effect "Catching up". ------ c_prompt Conceptually, I agree with his view that without a better understanding and appreciation for philosophy, humanity is limited by the progress science makes. But if I'm understanding his reasoning, he wants more philosophy so that scientists can become well-rounded generalists, reduce competitiveness, and better communicate to voters and politicians. These might be valuable benefits but, to me, humanity could benefit most if scientists had a much better understanding of rational ethics. IMO, universities are churning out too many unethical scientists and, for proof, I offer how much money goes into government-related projects (e.g., weapons, surveillance, control). A rational understanding of ethics is needed to reduce the research and funding of the plethora of destructive and control-oriented efforts. Not to mention that if scientists ever truly learned rational ethics, they'd no longer ask for government grants as they'd know it's wrong to take stolen money. ~~~ disgruntledphd2 I was totally with you until the last sentence. I suspect our definitions of rational ethics may differ. Quick, to the philosophers, they can solve this! ------ vezzy-fnord The issues facing scientific advancement and discourse have nothing to do with a lack of "thinking big" in postgraduate education. A lot of people do think big, but there are plenty of economic barriers - some intrinsic, others artificial, that prevent whatever vague idealism the author is going for. Nor is it the fault of scientists that voters and politicians do not understand them. More often than not, it's a refusal to understand or apathy towards doing it. In fact, politics is not inherently concerned with factual information almost at a fundamental level. If voters have no drive to autodidact, there will be no one out there to spoonfeed them information. Quantitative skills are already part of scientific practice at its core. So is ethics, particularly over the past half century. Learning to code and debating utilitarianism will not change anything that the author is concerned about.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Sublime Text 3 From Scratch - shawndumas http://pluralsight.com/training/Courses/TableOfContents/sublime-text-3-from-scratch ====== AH4oFVbPT4f8 "You are currently not signed in. Please sign in to access subscriber-only content." How do you watch these videos without a signup?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Backcountry Drug War - hownottowrite https://www.biographic.com/posts/sto/backcountry-drug-war ====== gumby Legalization hasn't helped. I have a vacation house (shack, really) in Calaveras county. There was a recent referendum question banning growing pot. It was portrayed as "you wouldn't want this next to your house/your wheat/your vines" but really it was funded by the pot growers who didn't want the legal competition. It's a problem because I like hiking up there but there are no go zones where you have to be afraid of running across pot growers or meth labs. Fortunately at least they aren't interested in the higher altitude areas. But a good part of the land in the county is simply public land (there's only one town in the county) so you have to be a local to stay out of trouble. ~~~ jzawodn Which town in Calaveras? (We're not far away, in Groveland...) ~~~ gumby I'm in Murphys, and the place that's most scary is up along the south part of the Arnold Rim Trail, though there are others. But once you get up by Alpine I think you're safe, out of hunting season at least. ------ jonahhorowitz This is so tragic. I wonder if legalizing the recreational use of pot nationally will take enough of the profits out of it to reduce demand for this kind of illegal grow site. ~~~ dkoubsky Well certainly nobody feels its necessary to run illegal corn growing operations in national parks. But as long as legalized drugs have a significant price premium over black market drugs, then incentives for this behavior would still be in place. ~~~ wybiral Counter point: I can probably brew alcohol for cheaper than I can buy it. But the convenience, availability, and legality makes up for the cost. ~~~ drooogs alcohol is a bit different than other drugs in that people also appreciate it as a culinary experience. most users of other drugs are not willing to pay 2-10x as much for the same drug in a better tasting form. ~~~ wybiral Having been to a legal marijuana shop and having had several pothead friends growing up I can confirm that marijuana users have all kinds of appreciation for culinary aspects of their drug. That's obviously different with pharma drugs, but for plants I think there's a comparison. ~~~ drooogs honestly I would believe this, but in my experience people are spending the extra money to get strains that are either more potent or have different subjective effects. I've never known anyone who would pay $100 for a gram just for it to taste good. ------ rl3 While it feels odd to be advocating surveillance, a massive network of UAVs equipped with infrared imaging would be very useful here. Have that same network double as forest fire early warning, and it'd probably pay for itself. ~~~ hermitdev Having grown up in Western Montana in the 80s and 90s on the edge of the national forest, we became very accustomed to having unmarked black helicopters flying low and slow over our land. Closest thing to nefarious was my brother & I taking shots at soda cans with the .22 rifle & 20 gauge shotgun. We also had low and slow flying Cessnas for fire spotting, and we were also in the flight line of retardant bombers flying south. So, summers were generally pretty noisy for us as far as aircraft noise goes. The Cessnas & retardant bombers were flying so low, slow & close to the house, you could read the tail numbers with your naked eye. The old bombers in particular really stuggled to gain altitude. We were about 20 miles from the airport, and about 1000 feet over the value floor, and they were seldom higher than straight out horizontal from our deck. Don't need UAVs for forest fire detection - already have MODIS [0] (and other) satellite imagery for that. New fires are detected via infrared usually in less than 24 hours. [0] [https://fsapps.nwcg.gov/](https://fsapps.nwcg.gov/) ~~~ rl3 > _New fires are detected via infrared usually in less than 24 hours._ That's not enough. Per the forecasted fire danger map[0]: _" Extreme - Fires start quickly, spread furiously, and burn intensely. All fires are potentially serious. Development into high intensity burning will usually be faster and occur from smaller fires than in the very high fire danger class. Direct attack is rarely possible and may be dangerous except immediately after ignition."_ The lesser two classes have similar narratives. Given the speed at which fire spreads, earlier the detection the merrier. As an aside, I was going to suggest artillery as a potential candidate for immediate response, but it seems that's already been thought up.[1] [0] [https://fsapps.nwcg.gov/afm/current.php?sensor=modis&extent=...](https://fsapps.nwcg.gov/afm/current.php?sensor=modis&extent=conus&type=firedanger) [1] [https://wildfiretoday.com/2016/08/25/boeing-wants-to- fight-w...](https://wildfiretoday.com/2016/08/25/boeing-wants-to-fight- wildfires-with-a-howitzer/) ~~~ hermitdev Generally, fires that start close to populated areas are reported quickly, in my experience. And are responded to fairly well. Last year, a slow moving fire in Montana that started from lightening ended up costing my parents' home after it made a small move, out of town hotspots made a shit call and lit a back burn on a Western facing slope, and then just watched it all burn down in the heat of afternoon and the height of eastern blowing winds. In other words, they lit the fire, expecting it to go west, but hot, dry winds blowing to the east blew it right onto the areas they sought to protect. Lawsuit is still pending, but my parents are at least covered by insurance, but the FWS also showed growes negligence that day, in my opinion. Prior to that experience, we'd had 3 or 4 lightning strikes in the area. All reported locally, and crews were on site within 48 hours. Difference was, this time, the strike was in very difficult terrain, they couldnt get to it, so they let it burn. They put in fire breaks and ran hoses for sprinklers along the firebreak, but they didn't even have the lines charged for the sprinklers when they lit the back burn. Then, like I said, they just watched while homes burned that they had setup to protect. ------ sathackr So I can't view the site in a mobile browser without rotating to portrait "please rotate your device", and when I force desktop browser, I can't zoom. Why do sites do things like this? ~~~ mirimir I can't even open the site in Firefox. Had to get the text-only version from Google cache. And yes, why make it so hard to read (you know) text?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Even without face recognition, Google's reverse image search can find you - ssclafani http://pascal.vanhecke.info/2011/08/11/reverse-image-search-and-profile-pics-unwanted-linking-of-private-and-public-information-airbnb-as-an-example/ ====== picasso81 Airbnb allows users to remove their public listings/profiles from search engines. Under profile, go to the Privacy tab: <http://cl.ly/452M0b0V1c2w0F1p1Z1i> ------ sp332 Anyone know how Google's reverse image search stacks up to TinEye or other services? Better coverage or more relevant results? ------ smackfu The moral is, don't reuse avatars. ~~~ domador ...unless you want the accounts you use the same avatar on to be "linked". Sometimes you do (when you're looking for publicity or make a name for yourself). ------ jsrampton I'm pretty sure you've already been made online! It's scary what they can find online.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A Model Estonian Soldier Who Spied for Russia - prostoalex https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/06/estonia-russia-deniss-metsavas-spy/592417/ ====== sandworm101 >> He had accepted money for information—“That was the first step,” he told me—and met the man who would be his handler for the years to come, Anton. So Russian. So KGB/GRU. America will spend billions putting a satellite up in orbit to spy on a man in a tent. Russia will get the same level of information with a couple fake cops, a girl, and a few dollars paid to vulnerable kid. >> an artillery specialist He was the perfect target. Artillery doesn't translate into the civilian world. Artillery people are more afraid of losing their military jobs than other trades. A sex video would put more fear into an artillery person than say a pilot or medic, people who could walk away from the military into a stable civilian career. >> While Metsavas was in Afghanistan, GRU agents had traveled to Russky Island, off the coast of Vladivostok, to meet with his father. Volin had retired there from London years earlier to be closer to his new wife’s parents, but his partner had fallen ill. And he has family retired to somewhere accessible to Russian agents? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that his father's new wife was also an agent. Again, sooo Russian. They checked every human intelligence box. America leverages technology. Russia leverages people. ------ secfirstmd The frightening thing about an intelligence officer pitching you is the moment that it happens and feelings of fear, being overwhelmed (Is this really happening? Who are they? Where are they from? I thought they were X but really they are Y? Why me? Why now? What do they want? Will they hurt me or my loved ones if I don't agree? Are they recording this? Who else can I not trust? What do they know about me? How much do they know about me? How did they find out about XYZ? Do they know about my other thing? How can I stop this? Do I want to stop this? Can I trust them? Etc etc etc) If the person being pitched can compose themselves and buy time to think there is _nearly_ always a way out. Despite what people think intelligence pitching usually has an element of bluff. A handler making a pitch deep down knows this. If the person being leveraged can find a way to call the bluff (and fight the fear of blackmail) usually the handler will back off - despite what they may say they might do ("We will expose you"). It's generally too risky for the handler to get involved in games and threats of exposing the blackmail evidence. Afterall, they want to continue in their job and aren't gonna risk damaging their own cover, career etc by trying to burn a source who rejected them. _Most_ pitches fail. Plus a person willing to fight their fear and run the risk of the blackmail compromise being exposed isn't likely to be someone who you are going to easily be able to control. The KGB trying to blackmail the Indonesian President over sex tapes comes to mind...the perfect response: _Given Sukarno’s boasts, the KGB shouldn’t have been too surprised that its efforts to blackmail him went astray. “When the Russians later confronted him with a film of the lurid encounter, Sukarno was apparently delighted,” Lister wrote. “Legend has it he even asked for extra copies.”_ [https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-cia-and-kgb-tried-to- bl...](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-cia-and-kgb-tried-to-blackmail- this-world-leader-with-sex-tapes-927fc7ddbd48) Of course it is worth pointing out that blackmail isn't usually a very good method of pitching someone and turning them into a source. It comes with too many problems. Smart and more effective pitches tilt towards cooperation not coercion. ~~~ hammock How do you know so much and can you talk more about the intelligence trade? ~~~ secfirstmd I've done various bits of training over the years. My company provides security for NGOs, journalists and activists all over the world. It's an unfortunate part of the job that this sort of stuff happens to a lot of the people we work with. ~~~ heavenlyblue If the lady is cooperating with the intelligence agency - he would then be imprisoned in Russia for her rape. Esp. knowing how they do that in Russia. I think the only reasonable thing to do in this situation is to do what another comment in the thread mentioned: to contact your commander. But in this situation there was another issue for the guy: his relatives live in Russia, so there might have been a case of him never seeing them again. Or having to work as a double-agent. ------ dullgiulio I find it funny that Christopher Nolan is shooting a spy movie less than a hundred meters away from this guy's prison cell. Somehow I don't expect the movie to be as interesting as this real story is. ------ rolltiide Interesting, so she must have led him to the camera bugged sex motel and particular room, where he was then accused of rape exasperated by prostitution being illegal in Russia and just fighting that alone would have torpedoed his military career in Estonia fascinating. so many tweaks to personal choices as well as that society which could have prevented all of this. ~~~ secfirstmd That's his perception and what (if this story is fully true) led him to take that particular option. The alternative and smarter choice would have been to walk straight into his commander, tell them what happened, pass it up the chain to Estonian Counter Intelligence, deal with the short/medium term repurcussions and live a normal life. This stuff happens all the time in business and government. Though it seems like it, it's actually not a massive deal to report this stuff, it's why counter intelligence exists (or corporate security in the business context). I would guess and say there have probably been dozens of times in Estonia alone when people took the smart option and reported things. ~~~ scarejunba Well, he doesn’t know it’s an intelligence op at that time, right? He’s only overwhelmed and doesn’t actually know what cooperation means. They’re subverting the same instinct that people in America have which needs to be protected by “Don’t talk to the police” which is “you’ve done nothing wrong. Just be upfront and we’ll help you out”. Then as time passes, the hold constricts around him. An allegation of rape will have finished off his career. No doubt about it. Take the Assange situation, then add an actual video of him having sex. Even if it were obviously not a single cut, enough people will hate him for it. “It’s a GRU op” people will be treated as conspiracy theorists. I’m not saying the Assange situation is like this (that he was entrapped) to be clear, but the reactions you read online to that will be similar to what this man would have received had the video been made public. On the up-side, he wouldn’t have been imprisoned for spying against his country. On the downside, his blossoming career would have ended. But in the moment, the upside seems unlikely, rare and far off. The downside is immediate. The upside is subject to hyperbolic discounting. The reason I doubt the theory of “this happens quietly many times” is that KAPO would be aware of the strategy and would have every incentive to inoculate Estonians about it, and to crow about their native heroes who escaped Russian clutches. Instead they only allowed revealing of the strategy via a caught spy. ------ javabean_ "Looks like you are offline" \- the Atlantic. HTTP response code : 200 . Interesting way of framing. ------ vasilia New Netflix show?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Web Startups Are A Commodity - augy http://avc.blogs.com/a_vc/2007/10/web-startups-ar.html ====== phony_identity Lose. "Paul Graham... argues that... web startups themselves are commodifying." Uh, no. He says they are hugely increasing in number. In fact, I think if anything that will increase the gap between the best and the worst of them. They are becoming even less of a commodity than previously, which was not at all. ------ yters The thing keeping them from becoming a true commodity is an effective aggregation service. (Not yahoo pipes, which is just for rss feeds)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Options for a “computer programming” topic for homeschooling - jmspring With things going on as they are, the GF is coordinating with friends of hers to form a home school group (using a program offered through the local district). I was asked if I could maybe do a 2x/month computer programming related tutorial. This would be for 7th grade girls. Are there existing programs worth looking at to leverage? If not, what would be some recommendations?<p>My plan is to gauge their interests and go from there, but I do think something that encompasses some form of easily observable results/progress is important. ====== RodgerTheGreat CS Unplugged[0] is a collection of activities, games, and projects which teach introductory Computer Science concepts without requiring computers. Many of these would be great for homeschool or a video-sharing "virtual classroom". Processing[1] is a Java-like programming language and environment which makes it easy to write games and digital art. Good performance, excellent documentation, a lean but powerful standard library, and skills that are transferrable to many other "mainstream" languages. If you're working with a very small group, try to build your curriculum around their interests. Do they enjoy storytelling? Perhaps you could introduce interactive fiction and build some text-based adventure games. Computers can also be used for music, drawing, composing poetry, and so on. The classic "Twenty Things to Do with a Computer"[2] still offers many good ideas. [0] [https://www.csunplugged.org/en/](https://www.csunplugged.org/en/) [1] [https://processing.org](https://processing.org) [2] [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/37596692_Twenty_Thi...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/37596692_Twenty_Things_to_Do_with_a_Computer) ------ gus_massa [Reposting an old comment, with some minor changes] How many hours per week? Python with the turtle package looks like a nice starting point. I didn't use it, but I programmed in Logo when I was young. Some link found in Google [https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/draw-square-and-rectangle- in-t...](https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/draw-square-and-rectangle-in-turtle- python/) When she grows up, she can abandon syntax, and use all the parenthesis she saved while she was young. Also, don't underestimate Excel. It's very powerful and you can do a lot of interesting things. For example, I like recursive defined sequences, like A2=(1+A1)/2, A3=(1+A2)/2, A3=(1+A2)/2, ... ? ------ notRobot Look at Crash Course Computer Science on YouTube and Khan Academy's programming course [https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6jN...](https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6jN9ulIgZBpdo) [https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer- programming](https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: AI Powered Spaced Repetition Tool (Quiz Me AI) - emilyjane42 https://quizme.ai ====== emilyjane42 Hello! I'm one of the creators of Quiz Me Ai. Would love your feedback on what we're building!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Plasma Jet Electric Thrusters for Spacecraft - iamwil http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2027072188/plasma-jet-electric-thrusters-for-spacecraft ====== paulsutter I'm thrilled to see this project. Yes, $69K is clearly much less than they have invested to date. This Kickstarter is likely a PR platform for them, and a smart one. I'm excited because it shows that more individuals are willing to take on far- reaching projects rather than build another mobile picture app. I hope some deep pocketed investors vet them and get them the resources they need. ~~~ dchichkov Wow. Check out the updates page of that project: [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2027072188/plasma-jet- el...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2027072188/plasma-jet-electric- thrusters-for-spacecraft/posts) ------ damncabbage As much as I cringed through the video, I think the style really works for them. :) This is the sort of thing I love to see on Kickstarter. Best of luck! ------ redthrowaway I know it may not be the best sales pitch, but I love how incredibly nerdy and low-budget the video is. It's a refreshing break from the hyper-polished, artsy videos we tend to see on kickstarter. It's just four nerds looking for funding for something nerds think is awesome. ------ InclinedPlane Here's my quick sale for these guys, which I've posted elsewhere as well when this comes up. First, what is this? It's a pulsed plasma thruster, which is basically just a railgun that shoots puffs of ionized gas (plasma) instead of metal slugs. Second, what's so great about it? Well, electric propulsion is a fantastic way to get around in space (once you are in Earth's orbit or above) because it's so efficient. The rocket equation is brutal, it imposes an exponential fuel burden based on the ratio of how fast you want to go (delta V) to how fast the exhaust of your rocket is (exhaust velocity). Unfortunately, a lot of missions have delta V requirements that are on the scale of or significantly greater than the exhaust velocity of chemical rockets (around 3-4 km/s), which means that we'll always be dealing with rockets that are mostly fuel and even then can only just barely get us to our destination. Electric propulsion systems, such as ion engines, make it possible to have vastly higher exhaust velocities (e.g. 30 km/s), which vastly improves the efficiency of the rockets by an inordinate amount. For example, using a chemical rocket to go from Earth to Mars would require at least 180% of the dry weight of the rocket and payload being used up as fuel, whereas an ion engine could do the same job while using about 1/12th as much fuel. The down sides of existing forms of electric propulsion are fairly severe though. They generate very little thrust and so must run for a long time to be useful. For example, the Dawn spacecraft will only accumulate about 1 km/s of delta V every 6 months. This means that some missions are unsuitable for electric propulsion, especially manned missions (where travel time is more critical). However, these pulsed plasma thrusters could potentially generate around one to two orders of magnitude more thrust for the same size of engine, making them much more suitable for high-delta-v missions or even use with manned spacecraft. Additionally, ion engines use a grid that is exposed to the flow of the ions that become the exhaust, and that grid can often become fouled or eroded by the flow, limiting the effective service life of the thruster, whereas pulsed plasma thrusters have much different limits. Third, why hasn't NASA already worked on this technology? Well, partly because ion engines have seemed to some like a more worthwhile technology. However, ion engines have received a lot of commercial development and are fairly commonly used on geostationary satellites, and there the low thrust is not a problem. So partly it's also that NASA has mostly just made use of otherwise well-proven, off the shelf technologies. Overall the project is probably worth at least a few bucks if you have any interesting in advancing the technology of spaceflight. ------ tocomment How does this compare to VASMIR? Is there a chance NASA would start using this? ~~~ InclinedPlane It's infinitely more practical than VASIMR, which has tremendous minimum energy requirements and fairly poor overall thrust/weight ratios once that is taken into account. VASIMR is only practical if you have hundreds of kilowatts to work with, which means you need a space-based fission reactor, which currently is not in production anywhere in the world at present. These pulsed plasma thrusters have very much better thrust to weight ratios and scale down much better. They are a comparably small device whereas VASIMR requires large and complex systems of magnets and so forth. It would be easy to run them off of solar power, for example. If their estimates hold up once they have built their prototype thruster and if they are able to develop it into a commercial enterprise (or license the technology) then NASA would certainly use them given the chance. ------ pkapur86 The day is not far when the next CERN is funded on kickstarter!:P ------ maeon3 I like to help people working on projects like these, not only because it could do what they think it will do, but because in playing around with unexplored regions of physics, they may accidentally stumble into something far more than they could have imagined. Kind of like the story of Alexander Fleming where he was trying to find some enzymes to kill bacteria, and accidentally figured out that mold in his sink kills the bacteria, and invents penicillin. We need something like that, again, for electric engines. [http://www.essortment.com/alexander-fleming-discovery- penici...](http://www.essortment.com/alexander-fleming-discovery- penicillin-40564.html) ------ rorrr 1) Your funding goal is ridiculous. $69K, really? Four engineers could not pitch in to get that much? 2) Your highest investment pledge ($10k or more) is an insult to the investor. They will essentially pay for 1/7th of your company, while getting no % of your company in return. 3) Your presentation is OK, but you really need to put microphones closer to the speaker. ~~~ shabble _> Your highest investment pledge ($10k or more) is an insult to the investor. They will essentially pay for 1/7th of your company, while getting no % of your company in return._ There's absolutely no way that this 70k is the value of the company. Their existing plant is probably worth 5-10x that even at bankruptcy auction prices. My understanding (although I haven't looked in too much depth) is that they're an established company doing work in one area (fabrication for plasma/fusion research) who have come up with a novel use for some of their tech/skills, but can't really justify the cost/opportunity cost of this particular app. So they're asking for essentially donations to develop the thing, in exchange for very low-cost returns plus a final project demo. It's really the patronage model applied to research. Also, for 10k you do get naming rights to the tech, and some advertising opportunity during the final tech demo, which is probably valuable to some companies, especially given the audience targeting this thing is likely to attract. Pitching for equity investment in the company requires a much more substantial business plan ("Make cool thing, produce internet videos & some research data" isn't really going to work), and it may just be that they don't see the value right now in doing the work necessary to attract those sorts of investors. I imagine if this test is successful and there is any hint of actual commercial prospects from existing satellite/space manufacturers, they'd take a more conventional route to funding to get the thing built. For "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if...?" studies, I think this is a good way to go about it, and $40k of people already agree. ------ vixen99 "Thuster"? ~~~ InclinedPlane This is unhelpful, say what you mean.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }

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