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No. 1 state for female entrepreneurs is Texas: Study - amyjess
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/business/2019/01/15/texas-no-1-us-forfemale-entrepreneurs-new-study
======
burlesona
Not too surprising. The major cities in Texas are very diverse, dynamic
places, with a lot of bootstrapping/entrepreneurship in the culture.
I lived in Houston for a bit, and one thing I noticed is people there never
ask “where do you work?,” they ask “what do you do?” It was incredibly common
for someone to answer with something like: “I’m a carpenter and I’m building
up my furniture-design business. I’m also working at a bank for now while I
get that going.”
Underrated place.
~~~
vertline3
Diversity may be a piece of the puzzle, but there are other diverse places, so
possibly more is contributing?
~~~
reaperducer
No income tax helps.
~~~
mywittyname
The gov't still get their money through higher property taxes. This has been a
problem recently, as property values and accessed values have gone up
dramatically in the past few years. Lots of this money gets funneled up to the
state to help pay for programs.
It's gotten bad enough that the state is looking to cap property tax growth,
much like California currently does. We have a good idea how that will turn
out. And it will likely stress budgets enough to require implementing state
income tax, or raising sales tax (maybe both).
[https://www.star-
telegram.com/news/business/growth/article21...](https://www.star-
telegram.com/news/business/growth/article213050609.html)
~~~
reaperducer
The Metroplex (North Texas) is not all of Texas.
------
exabrial
With low taxes, minimal regulation, state self-sufficiency, and no knee-jerk
reactions to "fix" every social problem through the government this shouldn't
come as a surprise.
~~~
xbryanx
I think you are oversimplifying.
Your conditions don't really account for Minnesota being #3 on the list. As a
Minnesotan I'd proudly describe our state as high-tax, having an appropriate
level of regulation (aka much more than Texas), community focused, with lots
of interest in finding smart government way to fix lots of social problems.
Just another way to get to being a better place for women entrepreneurs.
~~~
yostrovs
Nobody is moving to Minnesota, but hordes are going to Texas.
~~~
nafizh
Probably, the cold has something to do with that.
~~~
RickJWagner
Yeah, that probably has to do with the population decline.
But as for the rating, North Dakota is at #8, so I don't think cold weather is
hurting that.
------
Pigo
That is pretty interesting, Texas seems to be pretty business positive in
every aspect it can be. I continue to wonder how much Elizabeth Holmes and
Theranos has hurt the prospects of other female entrepreneurs in Silicon
Valley, and startups in Silicon Valley in general.
~~~
burlesona
Texas is also serious about keeping the cost of housing down. It helps that
there’s a lot of land, but as the major cities are now boxed in by as much
sprawl as people are willing to drive through (ala LA), they have lower
barriers to densification and redevelopment compared to most places. Austin
isn’t doing as well in that regard but the other cities have made it more of a
priority.
~~~
amyjess
As a Dallas native:
1) There are no natural borders in the Dallas area, so development can sprawl
forever and ever unlike in SV/SV and LA which are boxed in by mountains and
the Pacific Ocean.
2) Pretty much the entire metro area embraces the concept of edge cities.
Someone who lives in Frisco (an exurb) is more likely to commute to Plano (an
inner-ring suburb) than to Downtown Dallas. And people who live in Dallas
proper may even commute to the suburbs. For an example of the former, I have a
friend in McKinney (another exurb) who currently works in Frisco and is
interviewing for a position in Lewisville (I guess you could call it another
exurb). For an example of the latter, I personally live in Far North Dallas, a
very suburban section of Dallas proper, and I commute to work in Plano (and
I've had two jobs in the past where I've commuted to Richardson, which was a
lateral commute, as Richardson is due east of me while Downtown is due south
of me... though both of my jobs in Richardson have been _slightly_ north of
where I live).
Now, that's not to say that densification in the suburbs isn't a thing at all.
Just take a look at all the development at the Tollway & 121 in Plano or the
CityLine area in Richardson (I wish I could share pictures of the former, but
it's so new that half the development doesn't show up on Google Maps and even
less of it shows up on Street View). But it's not _necessary_ for continuous
growth thanks to our lack of natural borders and embrace of edge cities.
We also do a pretty good job with the street layout as well. We have six-lane
divided arterials on a one-mile grid that covers not only Dallas proper but
also the suburbs, making it easy to navigate across long distances. Compare
this to spaghettified messes like Silicon Valley or pretty much every suburb
in the eastern US (I'm thinking of NoVa and Atlanta here... and let's throw in
the Philly and NYC suburbs too), and it's heaven. It also makes the Dallas
area look like a waffle iron at night:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dallas_Metropolitan_Area_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dallas_Metropolitan_Area_at_Night.jpg)
~~~
existencebox
Let me defend the philly suburbs for a second here:
The actual philly grid extends _quite_ far out, ~hour drive outside city
center. On top of that, the light rail goes WAY outside in a bunch of key
directions, with rather impressive bus connections.
Don't get me wrong, as a now-seattlite I would be remiss to criticize robust
road transportation (god knows ours isn't) but I think you're looking at
Philly through the wrong lense. I never needed, wanted, or had any friends who
wanted a car while living there (especially since more modern tooling like
zipcar and now ridesharing), and I miss that greatly. I don't think I could
manage the commute I did via public transit alone in many cities other than
some of the NE hubs you mention. (I'd add boston in too, at least back when I
was there the T+Bus connections were great)
~~~
amyjess
It doesn't extend very far into the western suburbs, though. Example:
[https://goo.gl/maps/TZDgVrsLsbE2](https://goo.gl/maps/TZDgVrsLsbE2)
At the same zoom level here are some exurbs of Dallas (Frisco and McKinney to
be specific) which are pretty close to the edge of continuous development:
[https://goo.gl/maps/MsQBWBX9pH12](https://goo.gl/maps/MsQBWBX9pH12)
This part of the Dallas area is _much_ farther out from Downtown Dallas than
the first screenshot is from Downtown Philly.
(Also, this bit here isn't about Dallas vs. Philly, but here's a selection
that shows off why I love Dallas's grid so much --
[https://goo.gl/maps/1NEtE6WnYX42](https://goo.gl/maps/1NEtE6WnYX42) \-- it's
from Plano, an inner-ring suburb that was mostly built out in the '80s and
'90s and probably some of the '00s. Note that there are shopping centers at
almost every single intersection of arterials. Since arterials are on a one-
mile grid, this means that no matter where you live, you are never more than
sqrt(2)/2 mi. from a place to shop even though you're living in a very
pleasant suburban subdivision.)
~~~
existencebox
You're not wrong but I think that misses my point.
[http://www.septa.org/maps/system/](http://www.septa.org/maps/system/)
The rail offers great coverage way into the western parts where the grid
breaks down.
To avoid us talking past each other, recognize that to me the whole "Grid with
shopping centers on every arterial intersection" seems like the most horrific
implementation of corporate "pleasantville" I could imagine. Echoing what I
said before, what I found beneficial about Philly is being able to traverse so
many different areas and vibes with only public transit.
I bring this up exclusively to advocate for rail, because it often seems to be
subsumed under the "build better/more roads." (Which, again, I broadly
support, but the positive impact accessible rail had to my life cannot be
understated)
------
dmode
Almost all of these “studies” have an agenda, and usually it is to promote a
low tax state. So, I would take this with a huge grain of salt. Especially the
article states that Texas was propelled to #1 from #8, because of preventative
healthcare for women. What ?? What about very real restrictions to abortion
for women in Texas ? Also, just looking at raw VC numbers, Texas is far far
behind CA and NY when it comes to entrepreneurship. This almost sounds like a
study that started with a conclusion and wanted to apply “community adjusted
EBITDA”
------
gringoDan
The question here is how do the authors define "startup"? "VC-funded tech
company" has a very different implication than "new business".
~~~
clairity
it’s probably more on the “new business” end of the scale, but that doesn’t
matter. what matters is that we support small businesses, particularly those
led by women, for a more robust and just society.
(texas’s obsession with taxes is bemusing—-it’s like saying i’m sophisticated
because i shop at old navy! i kid, i kid... i don’t need any more avocado
toast thrown at me)
~~~
amyjess
We have an interesting relationship with taxes.
We have no state income tax, and our gas tax is low enough to force most new
highways into being toll roads, but our property taxes are sky high.
In fact, we have higher property taxes than California. Now, because property
is so much less expensive here than in CA, you still have cheaper housing
costs, but in Texas a much higher percentage of that is tax.
~~~
clairity
yah, the money has to come from somewhere and texas has a lot of roads and
schools (in a prior job, texas used my product in it's property tax
assessments).
i think the focus on low taxes is born of a frustration with corruption,
inefficiency, and unfairness. so let's hold elected officials to those
standards rather than focus on tax rates, which is both a proxy and a
distraction (also true of the 'small government' talking point).
------
amyjess
So, I was discussing this with a friend on Facebook last night, and one thing
that both of us agreed on is that the bro culture of Silicon Valley may be
driving women away. This is what my friend, who works in Dallas, had to say
about SV:
> I've read too many stories about "career advancing" sex parties and "favors"
> that need to be done to make me never want to work in that pile of dung.
------
amyjess
Archive link for those unable to view the article:
[http://archive.is/0KJyA](http://archive.is/0KJyA)
Also, I had to cut a word from the title to fit HN's length limit. I hope
that's OK.
------
mywittyname
This "study" is yet another in a long line which look at things they think
should drive business growth, rather than looking at actual business growth.
It's basically a list of states that have the most right-wing public policies.
The most relevant factor -- number of female owned business -- is only
weighted 25%. It mentions that 20% of businesses in Texas are woman-owned, but
it doesn't provide numbers for any other state for comparison.
Lucky for us, the National Association of Women Business Owners has
commissioned a more accurate study of the subject:
[https://about.americanexpress.com/sites/americanexpress.news...](https://about.americanexpress.com/sites/americanexpress.newshq.businesswire.com/files/doc_library/file/2017_SWOB_Report_-
FINAL.pdf)
There's some overlap, but there are also states like Ohio, which top the
linked study, but are at the bottom of the NAWBO study.
------
codemac
I wonder what they define as entrepreneur, and I wonder what the employment
statistics are in these states for women as non-entrepreneurs.
I know a lot of "business owners" in Ohio that are doing etsy stores, or in
worst case MLM stuff. Both market heavily towards women as Ohio doesn't have
great professional opportunities for women. Most companies they worked for had
little to no maternity leave, so it was a matter of necessity for their family
that they figured out something outside of traditional employment.
~~~
themagician
MLM is it’s own world of garbage, but what’s wrong having an Etsy store? How
does that make you less of a “business owner”?
I would very much consider someone with an Etsy store an entrepreneur, doubly
so if they can sustain themselves from that channel alone.
Most entrepreneurs don’t get 8-figure exits.
~~~
codemac
I didn't say it made them less of a business owner.. though I don't know any
that sustain themselves from that alone.
I was saying a lot of people I know do these things even though they'd rather
have a job as an employee. So I was curious what the employment stats for
women were in these areas and if they'd confirm this hypothesis.
But my coments on second read probably are my own misunderstanding.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to Multitask Effectively? - nelliprashanth
I have full time job. I spend my free time during the weekdays and weekends on my side projects. But I am finding it difficult to progress effectively in both of the areas.<p>Has anybody solved similar issues if yes how should I solve it.
======
yokaze
So, your "free" time is on side projects, that is plural.
Two things come to my mind, are you aware of the necessity to relax and take
your mind off of things to work efficiently? "Spare time" is essential for
working, and in some countries you are prohibited from working on the side for
that reason.
How do you feel about your side projects? Do they help you take your mind of
work, or are they more work? Don't feel bad about not progressing with your
side projects, if they are hobby. For me, some side projects were relaxing and
helped me to disconnect from work.
My advice, limit your working hours. Your side projects count as work, if you
they feel like work to you. If they relax you and you look forward to it, do
them when you feel like it. But try to be honest to yourself about it. No need
to impress someone with your "work-ethics", not even yourself.
People are bad at multitasking, you might overload yourself with things to
keep in mind. Schedule time for wrapping your work up in writing, so when you
finish for the day/week/... you are finished with it, until you pick it up
again.
Prioritise: What is the point of multiple side projects?
~~~
nelliprashanth
Thank you for the advice
------
atsaloli
Check out “Deep Work” by Cal Newport if you want to improve the quality of
your work (to progress effectively). Quite a few good tips in there.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
We got a takedown notice from LifeShield for our positive review - adulau
http://www.pskl.us/wp/?p=722
======
nicksergeant
LifeShield is a horrible company.
They've been a horrible company ever since their name changed from "InGrid". I
originally purchased my system when they were InGrid about 6 years ago.
When I bought my system, it was advertised that the system would work with or
without monitoring, which was a huge selling point for me. I wasn't sure if I
really cared about the monitoring or not, since alerts go directly to your
phone, email, etc. With those kinds of alerts, who needs someone else to call
the cops for you?
Anyway, so I invested in the system mostly for this reason. The InGrid site
was great and the support staff was friendly and helpful - I always ended up
talking to the same person and it was a nice experience. So I dumped a good
$600 into sensors, cameras, etc.
Fast-forward a few years and InGrid changes their name to LifeShield - I don't
know if this was an acquisition or a brand change or what, but it brought on a
slew of bad experiences. The support staff started sounding cold and
uninterested. The website started going to shit, it was impossible to find
things (try finding the online control panel to your system - that thing has
changed URLs / names at least 5 times).
But the two worst things: a few months ago, they raised my monitoring rates
with _no_ notification whatsoever. I saw my monthly charge come in $5 higher
than it used to be. Obviously not a ton of money but I'd like to know why I'm
paying $60 more per year for the exact same service. I called them up and they
said "Well our rates are now different for those who aren't on a contract with
us. If you'd like to go back to your normal rate, you'll need to sign a 3-year
contract with us." What, The, Fuck. I don't want a contract, especially not
with a company who randomly decides to raise rates of their longest customers
without notification.
So I decided to shut off the system monitoring. When I did so, to my horror I
found that the entire system was bricked. The control panel says "Not
Activated". They've once again fucked me, going back on their original
statement that the hardware would work without monitoring.
So I'm done with them. They're a shitty company who's gone down the toilet
over the past few years.
From the article here one of the LifeShield reps said they took a huge hit to
their business because of some random clone on the web... that's probably
bullshit. They're taking a huge hit to their business because of their shady
business practices and lackluster product offerings.
~~~
nicksergeant
To add to LifeShield's shady practices, it looks like most of their Twitter
followers are spam accounts that they've created to boost their followers:
<https://twitter.com/#!/lshomesecurity/followers>
Every follower has no bio, around 10-15 "follows" and about 1,500-1,800
followers. All generic photos, generic usernames, names, etc.
What a fucking joke this company is.
~~~
epoxyhockey
You are correct, sir: <http://i.imgur.com/Ytf9b.png>
EDIT: The flat lines are the fake followers..
~~~
dakotasmith
Mind sharing the code that generated this?
I am not the only person on HN who might like to have a way to examine
real/presumedfake follower ratios for any number of reasons.
~~~
epoxyhockey
I would setup a webservice for it, but Twitter's API only allows 300 queries
per hour. Just get the list of follower IDs via the API, sort them, then plot
the deltas between each ID.
Most _Twitter follower networks_ registered thousands of Twitter accounts in a
quick, automated fashion, making their entire list of Twitter ID's almost
sequential. The plot shows the deltas of the Twitter IDs from 0 to the highest
ID.
What's even more amusing is that, once you've identified a network, you can
deduce the entire list of their clients by what users the network already
follows.
Part of me wonders why Twitter doesn't just nuke the follower networks, since
they are so easy to identify. But, on the other hand, it's almost comical
looking at no-name Twitter users with tens of thousands of followers. There is
no way to force a Twitter network to unfollow them, so they are stuck with the
fake followers and all of the embarrassment that comes along with it.
Though, the scary part is that one can attack an adversary by buying up 25K
Twitter followers for them for a pretty insignificant price (maybe $100).
~~~
zedadex
> Though, the scary part is that one can attack an adversary by buying up 25K
> Twitter followers for them for a pretty insignificant price (maybe $100).
If that kind of attack became well-known, the next logical step would be that
a smart company buys some fake followers, then protests against it as though
to imply that one of their competitors did so.
Slandering a rival while reaping additional followers (though fake...) seems
like a win-win.
------
galenward
Here's the likely real story: LifeShield bought tens of thousands of links to
improve their SEO (made sense on a 6-basis, less sense on a 2-3 year basis)
and got hit hard by a recent update.
I helped a company a few years ago that had paid a consultant to purchase tens
of thousands of links. The way they did it was by buying one of three slots on
a few different freely-downloadable wordpress and forum themes.
The problem with buying links like this is that once they're purchased, they
are out of your control (buying links is pretty much always a bad idea, but
10x more so like this).
Yes, competitors could have bought tens of thousands of links, but let's apply
Occam's Razor here:
\- Did an angry competitor spends a ton of money on the off chance that they
can swamp LifeShield an SEO penalty (risky - could go the other way)
OR
\- Did a company that has purchased tons of spammy Twitter followers
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3970998>) and pay referral fees to
people who review their products (and link to them) also buy tons of spammy
links?
~~~
Geewhipped
Thank you for being the one to toss this out there... I also feel this is a
strong possibility but I didn't want to be the one to say it.
------
kabdib
The home security industry is, in general, horribly manipulative. They make
money on fear and customer lock-in (subscriptions). As such there appears to
be little pressure to adopt advances in tech, to cost-reduce, or to make
things easy and friendy for end-users. The systems are complex and baroque,
and there is a reason for it.
There's probably room for disruption here. I imagine a lot of the roadblocks
to this will be regulatory, such as if you integrate fire alarm systems or
devices that are hooked to phone lines.
The two weekends I spent wiping, reverse-engineering and reconfiguring an old
ADT installation really made me want to design boards and write firmware
again.
~~~
larrys
"probably room for disruption here. I imagine a lot of the roadblocks to this
will be regulatory"
Sensors --> Control Panel --> App|Txt Message
An opportunity for sure. I own two of these Elk Gold Panels:
[http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/m1-gold-cross-
pla...](http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/m1-gold-cross-platform-
control)
Complete with <http://www.ekeypad.net/eK_Family/Applications.html> software
you can essentially cut out the online monitoring and phone lines and simply
do everything over the internet. So I don't pay anything for monitoring.
You could actually easily write your own software since the M1 spits out codes
in real time and responds to commands that you can send over ssh. Anyway the
way I have this setup I can be notified of any event (say even someone walks
into and trips a motion sensor) by an email or text message. You could even do
a phone call or notify multiple people. And you can remotely turn on and turn
off zones, the system, and fully program this to do just about anything.
There isn't anything magical Elk is doing. And I've spoken to their top tech
guy and he didn't even know how to troubleshoot an SMTP problem. I would
imagine a good kickstarter project could easily duplicate the same hardware
functionality.
The security vendor of course pushed the monitoring. I have some experience in
that business so I didn't feel that I needed a central station. I just wanted
to be notified. You can easily integrate any types of controllers with this
(like an X10) and video cameras etc.
Bottom line: There are tons of people with legacy alarm systems. Even just a
hardware device that sat on the existing analog POTS line and sent the signals
over the Internet to a place that would then send a txt message to a users
phone would be a good place to start.
~~~
DavidAdams
+1 on the Elk M1 Gold. If you're a hacker, you should definitely buy the
haker's security system. You can then choose what kind of monitoring you'd
like. I go with a local independent security monitoring company that costs
about $8 per month. You can also set it up for self-monitoring. I wrote a
review of the Elk M1 a while back:
[http://www.osnews.com/story/22206/Building_the_Wired_Home_El...](http://www.osnews.com/story/22206/Building_the_Wired_Home_Elk_M1_Home_Security_System)
~~~
larrys
Great article. I ended up having to buy a laptop PC because you can't run the
Elk software for config on a Mac under boot camp etc.
One thing to point out to anyone using a security company to install this. My
installer left the system password less and you could telnet into it. In his
mind he thought he had secured it. Simply going outside our network and using
telnet you could get right in though which is how I checked what he said (he
didn't know enough to do that). I'd imagine there are quite a few of these
open ports right now out there.
------
droithomme
It was an interesting article until near the end when the author dropped that
he was angry because this other company wasn't paying him referral fees they
promised in exchange for his good reviews of their product, which from some of
the discussion here sounds like there is a consensus is bad products. This
suggests that the reviewer was writing false reviews because doing so earned
him money, and recasts the rest of the article into the category of "two con
artists trying to out con each other".
~~~
zachallaun
Comments like this are always particularly frustrating to me, as it suggests
that you did not actually read the article, and are now trying to prevent
others from reading it based on your impression.
The company had a referral system in place such that 5 referrals meant the
referrer obtained free LifeShield monitoring for life. Why would someone slant
a review such that they could get a bad product for free?
It was much later that LifeShield announced a new program that gave $150 for
each referral; this was a good while after the review of the product.
~~~
droithomme
Your comment is frustrating to me also as it is obvious that I did read the
entire article.
------
wheaties
Wow, I had no idea that you could pay someone to put in bogus links to a
competitor in order to cause Google to penalize their page ranking. That's
pretty shady but is it a "all is fair in love and war" type thing or is
someone going to do something about this? I can totally see an organization
pressuring people for pay-offs to "protect" them from certain sites.
Is this already happening?
~~~
sasha-dv
Although Matt Cutts claims that this is an algorithm change and does not
involve any human review of individual websites - this is not true. They went
after specific guys who sold links on their splog farms, but those who didn't
are up and running. A lot of people who hired "SEO experts" were burned just
because the expertise of those "experts" was buying links on said splog farms.
The thing is that google's algorithm looks like this
(<http://imgur.com/XxhZg>) and the real "SEO experts", the black hat guys, run
circles around it. If you doubt that just look at the results of your search
queries. See any spam?
I've built a blog in 2005 which I basically abandoned in 2007. That blog was
scraped and its content republished by a few BH guys who didn't bothered to
remove links pointing to my original blog which resulted that today my blog
has over 75% of its links coming from the splog farms. I'm not talking about a
few links here and there. I have over 40000 of those and yet I have no
warnings in GWMT and the blog ranks #1 for its main keyword.
If you're running an online business avoid hiring "SEO experts", they are not
just useless they are dangerous.
So, how can you get hurt by some asshole?
First, he can buy links on the splog farms already penalized by google.
Second, he can create extremely transparent splog farm and link to your site.
(by transparent I mean autogen content, no keyword variations in anchor text,
trackback spam, ...) Third, he can just "xrumer blast" you out of google
index.
I believe that the approach google took recently will get a lot of small
business (and webmasters) hurt, but it will have almost no effect on black
hatters. Why? Because, with all being said and done, the only thing that
really counts in SEO is the number of links and the BH guys are masters at
creating those. (see: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb>)
Google screwed it up big time by making negative SEO possible, but I doubt
they'll change their approach. I doubt that they even care about it.
~~~
derleth
> look at the results of your search queries. See any spam?
Not in my queries, no.
~~~
silverbax88
I'll bet you don't even realize it's spam. Do a search for something like
'water heater reviews' and several of those links on the front page will
ultimately send you to an affiliate site or zip submit. Spam.
~~~
derleth
> I'll bet you don't even realize it's spam.
This is so condescending it's amazing. You're calling me an idiot, you know
that, right?
------
brockf
It's funny in a discussion of ethics to end with a sidenote about how the
author wasn't making any money off paid referrals from his (inflated?)
positive review of the system.
~~~
Geewhipped
I can see how you'd think that, but I thought it should be included (because
it lends more to the story of how they are being shady). The way I see it, we
entered into an agreement with the referral program. They didn't honor their
side of it. That's unethical. As for the review itself, I made it very, very
clear that my links were referral links. I also made it clear that I was
benefiting from the referrals (this was true of both of the referral
programs). People could choose to believe that I was being honest or choose to
believe that I was a shill. No trickery involved.
~~~
brockf
I do appreciate that. It's just that I, as a rule of thumb, take reviews from
stakeholders with a grain of salt.
~~~
Geewhipped
As do I :)
------
karnajani
I understand that LifeShield may not be a popular company, and that their rep
was totally in the wrong in this matter. But the level of outrage shown by
Jeremy is just ludicrous. They apologized several times over and explained
that they were dealing with cranking out a job under extremely tight deadlines
(something we should all be familiar with) and managed to screw up.
The 4-5 instances of apologies, retraction of threat, and admittance of error
should have been enough. But it seems like OP felt so entitled to being
treated like a 5-star customer that he had to complain till he was spent.
~~~
Geewhipped
Sorry if I didn't make this clear in the blog post, but the part I'm most
upset about is not that _I_ got the takedown notices... it's that they are
using bogus takedown notices at all. Read the emails between me and the "SVP
Interactive" at LifeShield and also with the rep from the IP Protection
company (who admits that I'm right, the takedowns are bogus). I'm not whining
about being inconvenienced.
Oh, and it isn't that they "managed to screw up" ... they completely own up to
what they've done (and continue to do). They know it's wrong, but decided to
keep doing it because it was getting results. All this was covered in the blog
post.
Also, I'm nowhere near spent.
~~~
DanBC
Why don't you just copy the EFF into your emails?
(<https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP>)
~~~
Geewhipped
We did submit the text of the takedown notice to chillingeffects.org fwiw
------
AznHisoka
A commenter already mention this. Lots of companies got hit really hard from
the Penguin update because of bad links pointing to them. So I'm not surprised
they're being overly aggressive about this.
Speaking of the Penguin update, I'm surprised and quite disappointed it hasn't
been talked about in HN. It affects a lot of consumer web startups. Anyone who
has a website basically should be concerned.
~~~
TomGullen
I'm not concerned, I'm happy. Google are penalising junk websites.
~~~
AznHisoka
Yes, and in the process also taking out innocent websites as well. This isn't
an algorithm update against "bad" websites. It's an algorithm update that
negatively affects websites that fit a certain pattern - and you can fit that
pattern without even being shady.
For example, if someone doing negative SEO by blasting 10,000 bad, spammy
links pointing to your website - the penguin update penalizes your site. Even
if your site is about helping cancer patients, or feeding Africa.
------
Jem
I've seen it mentioned in the Terms of Use of certain companies (thinking
Fox.com) that people are not allowed to link to the company website going back
to the 90s, but I've never actually seen anyone try to enforce that.
I don't know whether I find it scary or hilarious.
eta: the Fox terms haven't changed much: "If you are interested in creating
hypertext links to the Site, you must contact Company at [email protected] before
doing so."
~~~
DanBC
There have been some UK cases about embedding other people's content in frames
and deep linking.
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_linking>)
------
veverkap
Does the white font on black background mixed with the opposite style in the
quotes hurt anyone else's eyes? I'm seeing ghosts now.
~~~
ars
No, that's my preferred kind of text. It's a relief to read a site like that,
most aren't so kind to my eyes.
The reverse colors of quotes is very easy to understand (although if it was me
I would have used white text with a slightly gray background and a white
border).
If you are seeing ghosts your monitor may be too bright for the amount of
light in the room around you.
------
RyanMcGreal
I'm a little bit concerned about the moral hazard of a reviewer who can earn
money from referrals after posting a product review.
~~~
wpietri
Yes. There's good reason that actual journalists don't take money from review
subjects.
------
rwhitman
Based on the fact that his review was using a referral link (mentioned at the
end) I wouldn't be surprised the 700k "bad links" were probably doing the same
for similar reasons. Google likely regarded most of their backlinks as
affiliate spam. This sounds fishy from every angle
------
Tichy
To me the scary part is that links might be unwanted because of search engine
penalties. Since social connections probably factor into those, you can become
a pariah rather quickly - nobody wants your links, and nobody will link to you
-> vicious circle.
------
monochromatic
> When I originally wrote my reviews of the LifeShield products and services
> (March, 2010), they had a referral system in place. If I got 5 referrals,
> I’d get free security system monitoring for life. They provided a link to
> give to possible customers. I used it all over my reviews.
I don't understand how you can complain about unethical business practices in
the same post that you admit to this.
~~~
dangrossman
"Admit to this" as if sales commissions are something shady?
> I made it very, very clear that my links were referral links. I also made it
> clear that I was benefiting from the referrals (this was true of both of the
> referral programs). People could choose to believe that I was being honest
> or choose to believe that I was a shill. No trickery involved.
~~~
droithomme
It's interesting but mysterious that you would bring up sales commissions here
as that is a very different scenario.
(A)
I go to the Ford dealer to buy a truck. The salesman, Frank, is on commission.
He tells me that Fords are the best trucks and when I ask about Dodge, he says
their trucks are badly designed, dangerous, and lack power.
(B)
I then go to the Dodge dealer to buy a truck. The salesman, Don, is on
commission. He tells me that Dodges are the best trucks and when I ask about
Ford, he says their trucks are badly designed, dangerous, and lack power.
(C)
I then check in with someone who is a truck expert, Tom. He points out that
one of the brands is much better than the other based on his personal
experiences.
What is the difference between A, B and C? Are one's expectations about the
objectivity of the data different between an interaction with Frank and Don
who are clearly identified themselves as professional sales agents whose
primary vocation is profiting from each sale that they negotiate with a
customer? What are the expectations here and how are they different with a
customer getting information from an independent reviewer versus a salesperson
who is known not to be an impartial and independent reviewer?
What would the response be of most people, after buying Brand T of truck, and
finding it to be a lemon, to discovering that impartial expert Tom was
actually receiving commissions or free products from the company or companies
whose products he recommended?
What I am saying here is not mysterious or bizarre feats of stretching
reasoning to its limits, but just absolute common sense that everyone is
familiar with. People know that a salesman working professionally at a car
dealer is not an unbiased source of information. No one is completely shocked
when it turns out he exaggerated or flat out lied to get his commission, for
unethical behavior for profit is common in the sales avocation. This is why
people turn to independent, impartial reviewers, and expect them to have
actual experience with the product, to voice their true opinion, and not to be
receiving kickbacks, presents, or special considerations from the company's
whose products they review.
~~~
dangrossman
Straw-man straw-man straw-man. Jeremy disclosed his relationship with the
company, on the reviews and personally by e-mail with each and every referral.
"Tom" did not.
There's nothing unethical about this. There's no mystery here.
We don't shun realtors as unethical when they recommend a mortgage broker to
get you prequalified with, a contractor for a home inspection, etc. that are
no doubt paying them referral fees.
We even purposely go to independent agents to shop around for insurance
policies, when we know they're compensated purely by their commissions from
the companies they'll place you with. There are 40,000 independent insurance
agencies in the US -- that are in business because people specifically turn to
them for advice while EXPECTING them to receive kickbacks from the companies
they're giving advice on.
We also read reviews in magazines containing ads by the companies being
reviewed. We watch news coverage on channels running ads by the companies
talked about in the news. There are clearly other ways to establish reputation
and trust than separating yourself from compensation.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What's your preferred development stack? - at-fates-hands
Just about every day a new Javascript framework emerges, or a responsive design framework, or a new programming language. Each one has its own hype and various companies jump on and off the bandwagon (GO and Dart comes to mind right away). Trying to keep track and trying to learn them all would drive me nuts. I'm more interested in finding something new, stable and fun to learn. I'm a traditional front-end guy (HTML. CSS, JS), but have started to do more server sided work with Javascript frameworks. I'm also getting into .Net and MVC4. What would you recommend I look at next? Also, any advice would greatly be appreciated as well. This could be links, books, or any resources you think would help.<p>Thanks in advance for your advice!<p>Pete
======
onaclov2000
I'm by no means an expert in any way on this stuff (in fact I just picked
something and went with it, I really like it), that being said, I have played
around with AngularJS and NodeJS, and plan to integrate Express and
Mongodb,(So the "MEAN" stack), it's nice, quick, and seems reasonably well
supported.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dogs of Character - Hooke
http://www.vqronline.org/profiles-articles/2016/03/dogs-character
======
petepete
An interesting read, but I'm with the author in that those 'desired' breed
characteristics are no longer relevant to almost all owners.
> Some liked one another just fine, but others might get into gruesome,
> possibly fatal fights if she didn’t rotate them into and out of the house in
> “teams.”
I'll stick to a friendly, daft Labrador thanks.
------
sir_terenced
Seems to be an excerpt from Pit Bull: The Battle over an American Icon -
[https://www.amazon.ca/Pit-Bull-Battle-over-
American/dp/03079...](https://www.amazon.ca/Pit-Bull-Battle-over-
American/dp/0307961761/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Electrode: A universal react/node application platform by Walmart Labs - workingBen
https://medium.com/walmartlabs/introducing-electrode-an-open-source-release-from-walmartlabs-14b836135319
======
kory
Here's a link to the basic boilerplate, if you'd like to see what the code
looks like: [https://github.com/electrode-io/electrode-boilerplate-
univer...](https://github.com/electrode-io/electrode-boilerplate-universal-
react-node)
Looks interesting. If it's as scalable and performant as they claim (and it
seems to be doing just fine on Walmart's heavy usage), then this could be
great for future large projects. And I would hope that Walmart's backing of
this project will keep it supported without breaking changes for long enough
that it would be viable for use in very large production apps.
The negative I see here is that we now have yet another JS/React app platform.
As someone who is just diving into using JS framework/library-backed
applications in web development, it just makes figuring out what everything is
the JS ecosystem actually does to support a large application that much more
confusing.
Choice isn't a bad thing per-say, but too much choice can make getting up to
speed more difficult. Given, however, this platform appears to be intended for
large applications that require scalability, rather than for small apps being
built for learning.
~~~
alexgrigoryan
Please note a lot of our focus on performance is around server side rendering
(universal js/ isomorphic js). I'm trying to write a blog post around our
performance improvements on a per module basis (it takes time to get good data
and writing good content is hard :D).
You can use these specific SSR performance enhancing modules without the rest
of Electrode:
[http://www.electrode.io/docs/above_fold_rendering.html](http://www.electrode.io/docs/above_fold_rendering.html)
[http://www.electrode.io/docs/server_side_render_cache.html](http://www.electrode.io/docs/server_side_render_cache.html)
[http://www.electrode.io/docs/redux_router_engine.html](http://www.electrode.io/docs/redux_router_engine.html)
I agree, there are tons of platforms and when your starting out fresh, it's
difficult to grasp the millions of ways to do things. We tried to focus
heavily on documentation and building an application together for the folks
that are new to the ecosystem. If you look at our docs, we try to build an
application with you and we break it down from basics (get app running and
deploy), to more intermediate (make plug ins, add routes, we will add material
UI docs), to more advanced (lets do SSR rendering, above the fold rendering
only, etc).
For small apps, we try to have a more barebones app using `yo electrode`
instead of the boilerplate (which has everything), and get you deployed to
Heroku or Google Cloud quickly (our docs break down how to do it, step by
step).
The big thing we are missing for folks that are new to the ecosystem is what's
inside our archetype and what goes inside a production app (the webpack
configs, linting, css modules, and so much more). We are working on this part.
The benefit of WalmartLabs backing this project and actually using it
internally to power walmart.com (and samsclub.com + grocery.walmart.com next
year) - we are extremely sensitive to breaking changes. If we release a
breaking change, we hear lots of groans around our desk and a line of folks
expressing themselves :).
------
nillawafer
Looks good. Thanks Alex for all your hard work on Hapi and now Electron!
Going forward I have few follow ups: 1) Where is the best forum to discuss
Electron, components and application composition? and 2) Can you point me to
some example apps built with the framework that have source available?
Thanks in advance!
~~~
alexgrigoryan
Hello!
Best forum, I think right now it's github. We haven't spread out to anything
like discourse or slack (for an external forum). Maybe we should!
For example apps, we have: [https://github.com/docs-code-examples-electrode-
io](https://github.com/docs-code-examples-electrode-io)
which is basically the code you go through on the docs. Hope that helps!
~~~
nillawafer
Thanks for the update.
It would be great to have a Discourse forum!
------
tree_of_item
Did they really need to have an edit distance of 2 from the other big Node
"application platform", Electron?
~~~
alexgrigoryan
We've been using the name Electrode internally (In @WalmartLabs as we have
been transforming the stack to this platform) for the past year, and we have a
cute logo! We discussed switching the name with "Electron" picking up steam,
but there was a lot of attachment internally to the name Electrode.
------
jazoom
I will be interested to compare this with react-server, Gatsby and phenomic as
I look to bring server side rendering to my app.
------
sonicloop
Hey, How do you handle SEO since the front end is REACT?
~~~
alexgrigoryan
Alex from the Electrode team here.
By default, Electrode uses Server Side Render, which means that the rendering
happens on the nodejs server and delivers the browser HTML (so we are in good
shape for SEO). That capability is one of the key reasons (but not only
reasons) we decided to go with React.
A lot of our modules focus on making that server side render more performant.
Specifically:
[http://www.electrode.io/docs/above_fold_rendering.html](http://www.electrode.io/docs/above_fold_rendering.html)
[http://www.electrode.io/docs/server_side_render_cache.html](http://www.electrode.io/docs/server_side_render_cache.html)
[http://www.electrode.io/docs/redux_router_engine.html](http://www.electrode.io/docs/redux_router_engine.html)
~~~
sonicloop
Thanks Alex, This is super cool. I have to look into something similar for our
Angular projects with Node
------
patricia_labs
I <3 the logo! It really is cute.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is this even legal? See anyone's Real-Time Analytics - titusblair
https://www.nachoanalytics.com/
======
nachodaddy
I'm the founder of Nacho Analytics, and I can confirm it's 100% legal. Love
the question, though.
We're not hacking into anyone's Google Analytics account or intercepting their
javascript tracking - it's legit. It's a patent-pending process, and when you
sign up we do load an analytics account real live visitors to _any_ website.
My favorite thing about software is that when you do it right, it can feel
like magic - or in this case black magic.
I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Should RescueTime Help Get You a Job at your Favorite Company? - bfioca
http://blog.rescuetime.com/2011/02/24/should-rescuetime-help-get-you-a-job/
======
mckoss
Thanks for posting this straw-man, Brian [disclosure - I'm an investor in
RescueTime, and talked to Brian about this idea earlier]. If I might kick off
this discussion ...
I think it's a cool idea if done right. If I can summarize your post:
- My RescueTime data *proves* I'm a hot-shot developer.
- I opt-in to receive job offers from top technology companies.
- They get to send offers to a pre-screened group of targeted devs.
- I remain anonymous unless I want to pursue an offer.
- I score an awesome job with a company I already love.
Seems like a nice process to get around the pre-screening aspect of the
recruiting process. And I bet it would work well for occupations like
"developer", "web designer", etc.
Just don't spam users or give out personal information to companies w/o
permission.
~~~
fname
I guess my only problem would be that this really shuts down users that aren't
able to install RescueTime on their work PCs due to company security policies.
These may be the hot-shot types that are actively seeking a new role and the
relative data would be missing for these users unless they do moonlighting of
some sort after hours where RescueTime can monitor that data.
~~~
mckoss
Come to think of it - I'm locked out because I use Linux all day and there is
not a good data collector on Linux!
------
scottru
I hire engineers all the time, and one of the most common failure cases in
hiring is someone who's smart but doesn't get things done - i.e. they
whiteboard/interview/code sample well, but when push comes to shove, don't
actually end up delivering.
There are lots of reasons people don't deliver, but one is that they aren't
actually writing code during the day. I'd love to have someone prescreened
with a "he actually spent 40 hours this week working in Textmate & Terminal."
That's like hearing you're somebody's first choice - a huge point in your
favor.
So while I can't imagine this not feeling slightly creepy, I love the idea. Go
RescueTime go!
~~~
tjr
I once worked with a guy who spent an inordinate amount of time working in his
text editor... modifying editor settings. He didn't actually produce much code
on our project.
------
orky56
I would be most interested in getting introductions at these target companies.
Even if it's an informational interview with the person who has my dream job,
that's a big step from not having that relationship.
If we imagine this as an AngelList sort of system, then the employers and
prospective candidates are all high quality. The service could just be a
match-making service that does a bit of due diligence on their respective
quality. That's a big asset.
------
daleharvey
This fits on those, "on paper sounds like a good idea" but in reality I cant
quite see it.
1\. easy to game 2\. suffers from the lines of code problem, is someone a good
developer because they spend 99% of their time inside emacs
I used rescuetime for a while and I didnt see a particular correlation between
how productive I felt one day/week was and how productive rescuetime said I
was.
I feel that github has really nailed this public profile of developers that
accurately shows what they would be like to work with. I have hired and been
hired in the last year and both of them came down to github / open source.
~~~
bfioca
It's not easy to game in that a lot of the data relies on proportionate
comparisons (i.e. time spent in .py files vs. time spent in .java files or on
IM). Not only that, but there'll be a level of human interaction involved. If
we were going to vouch for a candidate, I'd want to at least look at why we
were vouching for them myself, or have someone else audit that conclusion. At
this point we're pretty familiar with (and have a lot of reference points for)
what a real human usage profile looks like. To your point about the lines of
code problem, really the only thing we can do is provide a filtered list of
people who we'd be sure spent a certain amount of their time in the technology
areas companies are looking to hire in.
------
jaredsohn
How does RescueTime data actually prove that you're a good developer, though?
At most, it might be able to show that you spend a certain amount of time
within programming-related text-editors and that you're not spending time
browsing the web. Assuming this is the case, it still doesn't prove that
you're doing things effectively or that you're creating software that matches
requirements.
Also, if it is possible to fake out RescueTime by writing a program that sends
keystrokes (haven't investigated if RescueTime has put effort into preventing
fraud like this) then a developer could just set it up on a VM and then use
another VM to surf the web all day and be seen as a "good developer".
With that stated, it would still probably be a good filter today since to my
knowledge there hasn't previously been an incentive to fake out RescueTime
data.
~~~
bfioca
You make good points. This process would always be a two-way street, though.
Nobody would ever be able to land a job just by having an interesting
RescueTime profile. And I'd argue that, for some jobs, coming up with a way to
hack this system would be more than enough justification for hiring that
person. :)
------
dangoldin
I had a similar thought a few days ago but not for job hiring purposes but
more for job understanding purposes.
If you are interviewing with a company it would be great to see the rescue
time profiles of the people working there as well as the rescue time of people
in different roles.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
BitTorrent creator Bram Cohen at last releases Chia cryptocurrency whitepaper - euphemized
https://decrypt.co/7793/bram-cohen-at-last-releases-his-chia-network-green-paper
======
pretfood
"“proof of space and time”—an alternative to the energy-guzzling proof of work
that underpins networks like Bitcoin and Ethereum that instead relies on the
excess storage space on hard drives to verify its blockchain." Man that sounds
exciting!
------
Stacy777
Great! We've been waiting for this.
------
HipGeeks
At last!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
SCO Reboots, Lawyers Rejoice - sutro
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3728201/SCO+Plans+Rebound+Thanks+to+100M+Lifeline.htm
======
sarosh
I think there are more then a few lawyers who are groaning at this turn of
events. Sometimes market forces don't always do the 'right' thing...
------
noonespecial
Excellent news. Now there is something for Novell to collect on SCO's
infringements.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ideal Co-founder word cloud according to Hacker News Google Docs spreadsheet - osipov
http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/files/thumbnails/ca1b9068-013a-11df-901b-000255111976.wm.png
======
dkokelley
Top words (so far): Business, design, marketing, technical, skills, web.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
MasterCard will approve purchases by scanning your face - galapago
http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/01/technology/mastercard-facial-scan/
======
MichaelCrawford
Thats why I now wear a ski mask when I go shopping.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hack a meal in 10 minutes or less. No ramen allowed - rokhayakebe
what is your best Hacked meal in 10 minutes or less. No ramen allowed
======
brk
The options are endless... My wife and I both work, I do 99% of the cooking,
often late at night with a less-than-stocked selection of ingredients.
A couple of ideas... soak a cedar plank for 3 minutes. Heat on grill on one
side for 2 minutes, flip over and pour a good amount of rum on the now warmed
side, salmon fillet on top of that, more rum on the salmon, season to taste.
Cook for another 5-6 minutes. Grill some asparagus alongside the salmon
directly on the grill, seasoned with oil and balsamic vinegar.
Thin porks chops cook quickly, and can be flavored with a mixture of apple
cider vinegar, sugar and peppercorns for a sweet/peppery sauce. Cook the sauce
along with the 'chops.
Chop up some raw chicken breasts and saute light butter. Cook batch of egg
noodles at the same time, and heat some french-cut green beans in the micro.
Make a sauce of sourcream, onion soup mix and herbs. Once the chicken and
noodles are done, combine all the ingredients as an impromptu casserole. If
you're not limited to 10 minutes, add some bread crumbs on top and bake in the
oven for a bit to heat everything all the way through and let the flavors
combine.
~~~
ojbyrne
I'm sure it's a good recipe, but I couldn't stop laughing after "soak a cedar
plank."
~~~
wehriam
Worse, my first thought was "you have to soak a cedar plank for at least an
hour!"
~~~
brk
You really don't though, a few minutes is all that is needed for something
that cooks quick like fish.
~~~
foonamefoo
The laughter is coming from the size implied by "cedar plank".
------
pg
Ev's Improv: Heat olive oil, throw in a can of white beans, a small can of
green chiles, half a can of chopped tomatoes (minus the liquid), a vegetable
bouillon cube, curry powder, and black pepper.
(So named because I had to whip this up for Evan Williams when he spoke at YC
and we discovered at the last minute he was a vegan. It was better than the
official vegetarian dish I'd spent all afternoon cooking.
<http://www.paulmckellar.com/things/1684-?context=album_42>)
~~~
tel
Taking a look at that link (and then going to the YC main page again) made me
realize how cool that lecture hall you guys have is.
Any chance there are some photos around of the "YC Offices" just for the
curious?
~~~
strey
It'd be interesting to put handles with faces too.
Anyways, the get together looks like a lot of fun. All the best to the new YC
founders!
------
icky
No ramen allowed?
What about real ramen, starting with chuka soba and making your own broth
(this part would take much longer than 10 minutes, but bear with me), adding
in your own choice of meats, vegetables, egg, bamboo shoots, _negi_ , etc...
_Edit: I realize I made it sound like you put the chuka soba into the broth
at the beginning, which would make for soggy noodles! You generally cook the
noodles separately, later, and put them in, still firm and chewy, toward the
end..._
Remember, ramen is a real food (and really, really good), that's served in
real restaurants (there are several good ramen restaurants in the Bay Area).
"Instant noodles" is the caricature that most Americans are exposed to (I,
too, was a victim of this ignorance for many years!), but for the sake of the
deliciousness that is Ramen, please stop calling instant noodles "ramen", even
if it says so on the package.
It would be like an entire country being exposed to the concept of "steak"
through frozen dinners, and developing a prejudice against "steak" as some
crappy packaged frozen food.
~~~
neilk
Extra-fancy buckwheat soba is a bit pricier, but insanely delicious. A complex
and rich taste all by itself, so you don't have to add much to it.
Soba takes eight minutes to cook, but the meal is even faster if you prep it
beforehand. It's best eaten cold, so just pop it out of the fridge.
Chop other stuff to put into it. Tofu, green onions, mushrooms, peas,
whatever.
Broth is awesome if you have it, but I can get by with a few dabs of soy
sauce.
Add some red pepper flakes. Done.
~~~
icky
> Extra-fancy buckwheat soba is a bit pricier, but insanely delicious. A
> complex and rich taste all by itself, so you don't have to add much to it.
My favorite local ramen shop (Ramen Halu in San Jose, near Saratoga Ave and
280) uses it to make Tsukemen (sort of a dipping ramen, with cold soba noodles
and hot broth and dipping sauce). Amazingly good. :D
~~~
neilk
I live around the corner from there. I can't eat there because they don't do
vegetarian though. Still that's the way with anything authentic.
------
patrocles
1) Write code.
2) Forget to eat.
3) Drink lots of water.
4) take an hour to eat someplace and think about what you're going to do next.
Repeat every 24 hours....
------
mtts
Somewhat off topic (this is certainly not cooking in ten minutes or less) but
the English chef Heston Blumenthal is something of a cooking hacker whose work
some of you might find interesting.
There's a whole bunch of his writings here:
[http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search_target=%2Fsearch&...](http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search_target=%2Fsearch&fr=cb-
guardian&search=heston+blumenthal+appliance+science&N=&sort=relevance)
(look for the links called "The appliance of science" - that's his weekly
column)
------
bootload
_"... what is your best Hacked meal in 10 minutes or less. No ramen allowed
..."_
For the time limit I guess it's _Rat packs_ only. Here's a selection that I've
hacked up. Each take less than 10m.
Cold:
\- toasted Turkish bread, fruit & nuts ~
<http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/208532380/>
\- croissant & salad ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/2348875312/>
\- salad ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/374445307>
\- popcorn ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/197013458/>
\- cold scones & filling ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/278756630>
\- cold beans ~ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/146521341/>
Hot:
\- boiled googs & soldiers ~
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/273680402/>
\- cannelloni, sauce & basil ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/2298155730>
\- left-overs & sliced veges as a soup ~
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/1144599851/>
\- focaccia ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/487694401>
\- heated beans, coffee & bread ~
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/201529926/>
Less than 20m:
Of course reducing the time to 10 minutes leave out even the simplest of
recipes:
\- boiled rice, chilli, garlic & chicken ~
<http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/2348875322/>
\- pizza ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/54271803>
\- any form of stirfry ~ <http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/434856726>
------
lisper
Take any fish fillet about 1/2-3/4 inch thick. Sprinkle with the seasoning of
your choice. Stick it in a toaster over set to 400 degrees. (Put a sheet of
tinfoil in the baking tray and you won't even have any cleanup.) It will be
done in ten minutes. While you are waiting, boil 1 cup of water. Turn off the
heat and throw in 2/3 cup of couscous. This should put you at about the five
minute mark. Throw a veggie of your choice in the microwave. Everything will
be done, hot, tasty and nutritious at ten minutes. It's pretty foolproof and
east-cleanup too. This is pretty much our standard dinner most nights. (And
I'm not even doing a startup right now!)
~~~
llimllib
I like to broil whitefish, it's a similar effect. I tend to grill red fishes
(Tuna, salmon, etc) because the grill heats up hotter quicker. The cook-in-bag
vegetables are super easy and quick with no cleanup.
Oh! and this dish freezes well, you can make enough for a week in just a few
minutes and reheat a nice dinner all week.
------
SwellJoe
My "quick" meals are complicated by having an aversion to microwaves (I don't
even own one...they make food taste like crap, and I love food more than most
things in life, so I would never use it if I had one).
A rice cooker is a godsend. I finally broke down and bought one of the fuzzy
logic ones when I moved to California a little over a year ago. Many wonderful
things are possible with trouble-free rice. Takes only a couple of minutes of
prep time, though the cooking time is 20-45 minutes (depending on quantity and
type of rice).
My quick meals:
Fried rice - Scramble an egg, set it aside; dump in frozen vegetables (or
fresh, if you have an extra five minutes for washing and chopping) saute in
hot oil (as hot as your stove will go) until bright and slightly tender; dump
in the rice and some mushroom flavored soy sauce (the good kind from an Asian
market); stir it up; dump the egg back in and mix it up. Serve with a handful
of cashews, for an interesting texture and flavor.
Black bean burritos - Heat up a can of refried black beans with about a
quarter of a jar of good salsa mixed in. Roll it up in flour tortillas with
shredded cheddar and/or pepper jack, lettuce, and tomatoes (the veggies are
optional, as the salsa adds some tomatoes and onions and peppers). Optionally
add sour cream and/or guacamole. Also makes a great dip for tortilla chips.
But usually, meals take me longer than ten minutes, and I'm OK with that. I
like to cook most of the time.
~~~
mtts
Like you, I have an aversion to microwaves but recently I found a use for them
(thanks to culinary hacker Heston Blumenthal): use them to "cook" vegetables
of which the aromatics dissolve in water, like fennel, asparagus and broccoli.
What you do is you rub butter and salt and pepper on the vegetable of your
choice and wrap it tightly in two or three layers of microwave foil. Then you
zap it three times in one mine bursts at the highest setting.
Best fennel / asparagus / broccoli you've ever tasted.
~~~
SwellJoe
Hmmm...I have a nice stovetop steamer for vegetables which seems to work fine.
But maybe I'm missing something. Will have to try it next time I'm cooking at
a location that is microwave-enabled.
~~~
mtts
With a steamer you're still working with water so some aromatics will probably
get lost. A better alternative to microwaving would be stir-frying as you coat
your vegetables in oil so no aromatics would leak out.
------
delackner
1\. Start in a large pot 3cm of water to boil. 2\. in a fry pan, holding it
tilted, at very low heat, drop in well-chopped anchovies and garlic, in a bath
of enough olive oil that they are swimming. 3\. When the pool of stuff is
bubbling rapidly, dump in a 200g of ground beef. 4\. spread the beef around.
5\. Put 3 minute pasta in the boiling water. 6\. when the beef is brown, dump
in a can of diced tomatoes. 7\. kill the heat on the sauce when it starts
bubbling again.
I routinely do variations on this in roughly 10 minutes. It is satisfying and
vaguely healthy.
In 20 minutes though, you can have nirvana:
1\. Cut a pumpkin into 2cm square chunks. 2\. Steam for 10 minutes or so,
until mushy. 3\. in a fry pan mix a chunk of S&B dry curry and a can of diced
tomatoes with some water along with the pumpkin. 4\. smash everything together
until it is a puree. 5\. kill heat, add plain yoghurt.
Eat as a soup or on rice.
------
petercooper
I won't cook if it takes more than 10 minutes so this will be great for me :)
Anyway, my current favorite is..
Ingredients: 1) 1/2 jar of sweet and sour cooking sauce that has vegetables in
it (Uncle Ben's!) 2) Packet of microwaveable whole-grain rice (the healthy
stuff!)
Directions: 1. Microwave the rice for 90 seconds. 2. Put the sauce and
vegetables into a bowl and microwave for 90 seconds. 3. Blend the rice into
the hot sauce / vegetables.
This is what I eat for dinner every day my girlfriend isn't working the
evening shift. Takes 3 minutes. This can also be varied by using frozen
vegetables which you defrost first with the microwave on Low for 5 - 10
minutes. You can then blend in tomato ketchup, pickle, onions, and all sorts
of stuff to just get a rice + lotsa goodies type meal.
~~~
poppysan
rice, ketchup, pickles and onions. are you pregnant? My wife eats like this.
Hahaha.
------
poppysan
steak and potatoes
ny strip (bout half an inch thick) Salt, pepper, garlic, shallots, butter
potatoes (cut into chunks)
turn broiler to highest setting. put all ingredients in a ziplock bag and
shake, then put onto the broiler plate and broil. 8 mins late you have medium
steak and potatoes!
~~~
shimon
Don't forget to flip the steak to the other side halfway through.
~~~
icky
Or to remove the ingredients from the ziploc bag (at least, I hope that's how
he does it!)
------
astine
Refried beans, cheese, sour cream, 'salsa,' tortilla, and a minute in the
microwave.
------
dkokelley
Actually, Spaghetti can be pretty quick if you have enough people to eat it
all.
Put some noodles in water over the stove. Grab a can of sauce and put it in
another pot on medium.
It really depends on the size, but it could be ready in about 10-15 minutes
for a small amount.
If you're entertaining on short notice or limited prep. time it works too.
Give yourself about 20 minutes and then you're set for serving yourself and
guests!
(Note: Spaghetti done right will take significantly longer. This does not
include preparing meat or adding any spices)
~~~
ovi256
>10-15 minutes
You are overcooking it. Six to eight minutes is enough. If you ever go to
Italy, you will see what I mean. Their normal cooked pasta is 'al dente' for
non-Italians, and their 'al dente' is ... soaked in warm water. But good
anyway. And do salt the water generously.
~~~
tel
Italian 'al dente' is a trip. I hardly believed it at first, but it _is_
tasty.
------
daviday
Out-of-the-can salad: chickpeas, black beans, maize, lettuce, cottage cheese,
sunflower seeds and a diced avocado. Sprinkle with balsamic vinegar and olive
oil and eat with bread
------
papersmith
Tuna sandwich:
Mix canned tuna, diced celery and/or onion, and mayonnaise in a bowl. Serve
with sliced bread. You can store the filling in a jar in the fridge for about
a week.
Corn soup:
Boil canned corns in water with your favorite broth/bouillon and diced
scallion. Peas optional. Whip up an egg and mix it into the soup when almost
done. Turn off the stove and mix in a tea spoon of starch powder for a
thickened texture.
------
poppysan
If you aren't counting calories I have the best way to eat tacos.
1 bag of doritos. 1 bag Monterey jack cheese shredded 1 bottle pace chunky
salsa 1 lb ground beef 1 pack mcKormic taco seasoning 1 bag lettuce shreds
*optional sour cream, green onions chiles, avacado, etc.
Brown ground beef. usually takes 4-5 mins for a lb. Mix in taco seasoning. mix
all ingredients in a big bowl. Engorge yourself with delicious carbs.
------
hs
Nature's fast food (aka fruit) i like the no-wash needed like banana, oranges
- easy clean up too considered as vegan food too :D
for cooking: rice, water, meat, garlic put together in a small rice cooker use
the rice cooker's bowl - no need to transfer food to plates clean everything
in one swoop
oh yeah, you can put raw egg+shell too and peel later ;)
------
andr
Eggs, chicken breakfast sausage in 2" pieces, some salt, some cheese, frozen
stir fry vegetables (everything organic). Pre-heat a pan, mix everything
(break the yolks), pour it in the pan and start mixing with a plastic spatula.
Takes about 5 minutes, comes down to $2 for a hearty portion and has all basic
food types, sans dairy.
------
Tichy
Chop vegetables into small chunks, fry them for a little while (add apices at
will), then add some water (just enough to make them not burn and allow steam
to develop) and cover with lid. Let stew for a couple of minutes. Add tomato
sauce or soy sauce or coconut cream or... Combine with rice or noodles or...
------
wehriam
Can of black-eyed peas, pat of butter, frozen hamburger patty (read, bubba
burger.) Boil. Not fancy but good eating. And it keeps well.
Realistically though, we all owe it to ourselves to eat well. I've lost 10-20
lbs this year (depending on the day) by avoiding carbs and eating my
vegetables. Who knew?
------
pkaler
Throw a scoop of protein powder in oatmeal. Microwave or (better) throw
boiling water on top.
Dump a can of tuna in a strainer. Heat with hot water in sink. Dump on top of
bagged salad. Top with a vinaigrette or salad dressing.
------
mtts
Quick and fairly good: some Turkish or Italian bread with a stew made of
canned tomatoes, canned tuna and lima beans (also canned). Add some fresh
basil and maybe some grated cheese.
Five minutes tops.
------
ivankirigin
Meals I often enjoy
1\. Can of chick peas + balsamic vinegar 2\. Huge pile of spinach or kale
wilted in a frying pan with a bit of oil, salt, and pepper. 3\. Cereal & milk
4\. PB&J
------
TrevorJ
Ok, this is the best one right here!! Take those biscuits that come in the
roll,, pop em in a toaster oven with pasta sauce and mozzarella cheese on em:
instant mini pizzas!
~~~
SwellJoe
I much prefer the somewhat healthier alternatives of pita bread or thick
slices of fresh sour dough bread. Have you read what's in those canned
biscuits?
I also get pretty picky with my mozzarella. I've gotten hooked on mozzarella
fresca--the really soft, whole milk, kind. It makes me like pizza (which I've
never been a huge fan of).
------
markdionne
Scramble 2 eggs (teflon pan). Chop jalapanos. Put eggs, jalapenos and cheese
on large flour tortilla. Zap in microwave 33 seconds. Serve with beer and hot
sauce.
------
CHIEFARCHITECT
Wondered if we have enough for a cookbook.
------
wenbert
Egg and rice (from the fridge) :P I cook the bestest eggs in da whole world. I
cook it better than Chuck Norris. Seriously, I do.
~~~
mtts
Cooking eggs _can_ take 10 minutes (start from cold water, then at 10 minutes
the yolk is semi-solid), but to do it properly you need 20 minutes to half an
hour at least.
At 62 - 68 degrees centrigrade, that is.
If the temperature gets any higher, the egg white gets rubbery and the yolk
grainy. We think of this as the way eggs should be, but if you've ever tasted
a properly cooked egg you'll know those are much, much better.
(oh, and salmonella bacteria die at around 60 degrees so that's not something
you should be worried about with this technique).
------
ajkirwin
I tend not to make meals that quickly, as for me, cooking is one of the things
I do to relax and think. :)
And I usually end up spending near to an hour in the kitchen, most nights :D
~~~
strey
Agreed. Cooking up something inventive in the kitchen, chopping ingredients as
pans fry minced onions and garlic, throwing new spices together; it's a whole
lot of fun. Whenever I have the time, this is something I love to do.
~~~
ajkirwin
Same. And I don't even have a fully-stocked cabinet, yet. Need to hit up the
japanese and indian supermarkets. And any others that I can find.
I prefer to shop at places like that than places with an 'international'
section. You get better quality ingredients, at cheaper prices. And a wider
variety!
------
strey
If 10 minutes is prep time, you can do a whole lot with a crock pot. I also
like rice alot, so I include a rice cooker. But, prep only takes 5 minutes, if
that. Throw the meat, sauce, and veggies into the crock pot, and rice into the
cooker. A couple hours later when I get back home, I have a delicious, warm
meal waiting.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Automated Bitcoin Escrow - lukashed
https://coinguard.org/
======
jdlshore
Sorry to be a downer, but there's a typo on your front page which immediately
turned me off:
"Let's face it ADD COMMA HERE conducting a bitcoin transaction on the internet
can be risky, and having to trust a total stranger can be scary."
Awkward wording on the rest of the page, along with more grammar problems in
your FAQ, suggest that you should ask an English major to proofread your
pages. :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Niall Ferguson: The Destructive Power of Social Networks - SQL2219
https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2018/10/29/niall-ferguson-the-destructive-power-of-social-networks?bt_ee_preview=uuW%2F%2FJJlE46SkhT2eumuO7xSWp3EJFpELCDdlvU6FM%2FbKkDdyn4h33FR52aqQqJC&bt_ts_preview=1540867238596&bt_ee=Y9ZOa3IixfWEtQ1RDNtByCw4kpmcmFqqCBPDC53MO7rBh7paZ1QtoBiz6xe%2Fc8qz&bt_ts=1540894040970
======
hnmullany
Hyperpartisanship is a phenomenon we can see in societies far predating the
invention of movable type, and it has had a class trigger (the Gracchi revolts
in Rome), a religious trigger (Arian/Orthodox in late antiquity
-Iconoclasm/Iconophile in Byzantium), a sports trigger (the Blue/Green civil
riots in Constantinople) or traditionally an intra-elite trigger
(Guelf/Ghibbeline or White/Black Guelf in medieval italy.) Niall Ferguson is
not a rigorous historian and, like Malcolm Gladwell, should be considered an
entertainer not a thinker.
~~~
losteric
Communication friction, price and latency, has always shaped the structure and
reach of our communities. Historically, friction that meant most people
primarily interacted with "nearby" humans with differing perspectives...
moderating new ideas through socialization.
What's changed is that social media, and the internet at large, has finally
brought the cost of global peer-to-peer communication to (effectively) zero.
That's huge! Our tribal boundaries are now fully decoupled from distance. We
can define our community with complete freedom and precision while our phones
grant near ubiquitous access to those we have selected.
On one hand, I know this revolution helped some LGBT friends find themselves
and stay strong growing up in "traditional" communities... but the same tools
also enable bigotry and conspiracies to fester in our backyards.
Hyperpartisanship is not new, but the degree of tribalization enabled by the
internet feels new. Differences are being reinforced along every axis of
opinion, with a much weaker socialization factor. It's not just team A vs B...
the various groups of A are fighting themselves, all the variations of B
through Z, and hordes of bots. It's an unending unwavering battle royale.
How do we compromise or reach consensus in a system like that? How can we turn
this diverse melting pot into progress, mass adoption and acceptance of new
ideas? And how, if at all, can we self-regulate things like bigotry without
oppressing progress?
------
tw1010
Niall wanted some way to cash out on his vast knowledge about history, and
decided to go after the current hype, facebook. He's not actually worried,
he's just following the current public anxiety, and gets to promote his book
in the process (nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it's not real fear,
and it creates a fear bubble). I'm just making this up, but that's what it
feels like based on listening to his interviews (and by reading his most
recent book, which feels super rushed and/or like not a lot of love went into
it).
~~~
akamaka
That’s exactly how I felt about a previous book of his, _The Ascent of Money_
, which was released at the height of the financial crisis in 2008 and then
rushed into production as a TV documentary. One review accurately called it
“rushed and uneven”.
([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Money](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Money))
------
nkurz
We talk about "internet witch hunts", but I hadn't really considered that it
might be useful to compare the situation with actual historical witch trials:
_Ferguson said that the phenomenon of polarization was predictable, when one
considers similar historical events._
_To understand our time, he said, you must go back 500 years to the early
16th century, when the printing press became widely available. It allowed a
greater volume of content to be produced and disseminated with a lower cost of
communication._
_The Mark Zuckerberg figure of that time was Martin Luther, the leader of the
Reformation. Luther’s axiom, he said, was that if you could read the Bible and
have a direct relationship with God, everything would be awesome. But what
ensued was 130 years of conflict due to polarization. Half of the population
wanted to reform the church, the other half didn’t, he said._
_The most insidious manifestation of this polarization was in the persecution
of those considered to be witches. The “witchcraft mania,” Ferguson said, was
not just in Salem, Massachusetts; it swept across Europe._
_Today we see a similar manifestation in the context of fake news that
spreads faster than true news, which undermines our confidence in the media._
As an aside, in the unlikely event that you are passing through the small
Arctic town of Vardø, Norway, there's a stunningly understated monument to the
"witches" killed there in the 17th century. The main museum is a long raised
hallway, with dangling light bulbs illuminating excerpts from the court
records of each person that was executed. It's in historical order, so one
reads of one person who accuses another of witchcraft leading to their
execution, who then in turn is denounced and executed, who then in turn is
denounced and executed, layer after layer after layer. It's really quite a
chilling museum, and a testament to a legal process gone awry:
[https://www.iconeye.com/architecture/features/item/9674-pete...](https://www.iconeye.com/architecture/features/item/9674-peter-
zumthor-s-vardo-memorial)
~~~
chrononaut
_Today we see a similar manifestation in the context of fake news that spreads
faster than true news, which undermines our confidence in the media._
Has it really? I would think the editorial quality of any publication has not
noticeably diminished over the last three years.
Has most of the "undermining of confidence in the media" been really been a
manifestation to dislike publications that one already despised, such that
there is now just more people openly stating it and that now more people are
agreeing with it?
At the same time, I am interested if there have been any studies performed
that compared the populations perceptions of particular publication's accuracy
/ quality over time compared to an unbiased organization independently (if one
such exists) assessing the quality of the reporting over time.
------
Bucephalus355
Worth noting the book “The Great Illusion” by Norman Angell published in 1909
in the years before WWI. The book is considered probably the best example of
Europe’s delusions regarding the nature of peace and war before 1914.
One of Angell’s main ideas was that trade between countries rendered them so
close, increasing familiarity and contact, that war would be extremely
unlikely because of decreased nationalist sentiment. He believed that contact
and connection reduces disagreement.
His book did not really account for the fact that increased connection and
encounters simply give you many more things with which to disagree and
possibly go to war over.
Charles Lindbergh years later took up this idea again, believing the airplane
to be a utopian machine of unity between peoples and countries. He believed it
so much he was helping the Nazis and the Luftwaffe well into 1938 without
issue.
Finally I want to note I see a concerning amount of similarity between the
utopianist rhetoric that came from physicists and aircraft engineers in the
1920’s and those of software engineers today, and I think this is worth
considering. Those inventions, while incredible, played a key role in one of
the most brutal wars of all time.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion)
------
jelling
It's refreshing to see social networks put into a historical context of human
behavior. Sites that I otherwise respect routinely run columns on social media
where I can't tell if the author is completely ignorant of history or if
they're blithely ignoring it.
------
gumby
> Luther’s axiom, he said, was that if you could read the Bible and have a
> direct relationship with God, everything would be awesome. But what ensued
> was 130 years of conflict due to polarization. Half of the population wanted
> to reform the church, the other half didn’t, he said.
It's hard to say that this is bad. Before Luther, there was one system, like
it or not. With/after Luther, some people undertook to reform the system. You
can argue one side was better than the other but the fact is that under the
first system one set of power brokers ran everything. After, there was at
least some diversity.
------
tropshop
I'm not sure why the content is lazy loaded on scroll. Extremely jarring,
can't skim, can't estimate the length of the article. Closed tab.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hackers can trick self-driving cars into taking evasive action - ikeboy
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/07/hackers-trick-self-driving-cars-lidar-sensor
======
detaro
Probably possible with the radar based distance-keeping/collision avoidance
assistance things of modern cars as well. "Only" slams the brakes, but in the
wrong traffic situation that also can go pretty wrong.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Penn and Teller need each other - kposehn
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-penn-teller-need-each-other/
======
hyp0
> 'Look, I made a hat where there never was a hat.' I mean, that just pretty
> much summarizes anybody who makes something artistic.
> "The joy of it is, there was nothing there, and now something that was in my
> head, is out there."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The problems with HTML5 audio - skybrian
http://cromwellian.blogspot.com/2011/05/ive-been-having-twitter-back-and-forth.html
======
micheljansen
This is true, but that is not to say solutions are not on their way. From this
script that was submitted yesterday
(<https://gist.github.com/9c4955e5a3662e4cd5e1>):
<https://wiki.mozilla.org/Audio_Data_API>
[http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/speci...](http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/specification/specification.html)
Real-time audiosynthesis is coming, but it will take a while to reach the
level that Flash currently offers.
------
seanalltogether
Audio is always a tricky topic because things like timing are so much more
sensitive then the standard render-centric run loop. Audio control tends to
fall outside the event based models that work so well for GUIs.
~~~
nitrogen
Though it comes at the expense of CPU usage, running a GUI on a strictly-timed
frame-synced loop makes interaction much, much smoother.
------
kordless
Soundmanager 2.0: <http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/>
------
akamaka
A much too long article which basically says two things: HTML5 audio doesn't
allow raw access to the audio data (which could be used for sample generation,
making a spectrum analyzer, etc.), and doesn't have the fine control over
timing that a game developer might hope for.
~~~
cromwellian
I said it shorter in tweets (@cromwellian), but the Microsoft IE9 guy didn't
get it, hence the rant. It turns out, many people do not understand the timing
issues as you might think. The Microsoft guy seems to think you can string
together serial audio using Javascript's setInterval() despite non-determinism
sources from Garbage Collection, browser style recalculation/layout, and other
event-loop events interfering.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
"PR is the news equivalent of search engine optimization" - DavidChouinard
http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
======
timdellinger
I'll suggest an improved title for your submission:
"PR is the news equivalent of search engine optimization" (2005)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Inside Stripe - px
http://www.fastcompany.com/1813087/stripe-startup-paypal-google-checkout-peter-thiel-elon-musk?partner=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+fastcompany%2Fheadlines+%28Fast+Company+Headlines%29
======
PStamatiou
Stripe has been amazing for us. We've even gotten emails from them (most
recently Saikat!) about how we were accidentally hitting their API twice. They
helped us find a bug. No other company I've integrated with us paid that close
attention to such matters. We've changed our internal usage of Stripe many
times (from doing lots of recurring work with various plans and invoice item
adding) to just doing simple charges and it's worked great every time.
We're quite proud of our Stripe-powered CC form on Picplum!
<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/186198/Screenshots/t26p.png>
------
scott_s
I have always attributed PayPal's problems to having to perform fraud
prevention on a massive scale. That's where I understand most of the initial
difficulty comes from in getting a PayPal account setup: they have to weed out
scams and money laundering. Same with the horror stories I read: most of those
people have circumstances that would also preclude them from a standard
merchant account.
So is Stripe doing fraud prevention differently? Put another way, are they an
entirely different animal from PayPal and Google Checkout, or are they betting
that they can do a better job at what PayPal and Google Checkout already do?
~~~
davidpoarch
You are absolutely correct. That's one of PayPal's main weaknesses. I am not
sure how Stripe is dealing with it; though they probably have to go through a
similar screening process, which isn't foolproof.
I am a co-founder of a nascent third party payments aggregator (TPPA) called
PayGuard (currently in stealth mode - Beta version is being built), and our
system inherently includes automatic fraud prevention; so we not only save
money by eliminating the screening process, but we also save by virtually
eliminating all 'dispute resolution'-leading scenarios.
As far as a comparison for Stripe, they seem to be similar to Braintree, but
geared more towards early stage online merchants. The following link may
answer some of your other questions:
[http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-using-
Stripe...](http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-using-Stripe-for-
in-app-transactions-instead-of-Paypal-or-Braintree-are-the-costs-much-lower-
how-good-is-the-security)
~~~
scott_s
_our system inherently includes automatic fraud prevention_
If you're willing to share more, I'm listening. PayPal has "automatic fraud
prevention" in the sense that, if you do something that deviates from what
they expect, they suspend your account. I assume you mean something different.
Also, I followed the Quora question to this related one:
[http://www.quora.com/How-are-Square-and-Stripe-able-to-
accep...](http://www.quora.com/How-are-Square-and-Stripe-able-to-accept-
payments-on-merchants-behalf-without-requiring-them-to-hold-their-own-
merchant-accounts-with-a-banking-financial-institution) I'm still confused
about one thing, though. I understand that PayPal is both an aggregator and
the merchant of record. It sounds like Braintree is not and aggregator and not
the merchant of record. But this poster claims that Stripe is an aggregator,
but not the merchant of record, and I don't understand what that means.
~~~
EREFUNDO
No we won't freeze, close, or withdraw money from people's accounts. Once it's
open, it's open. Once the money is cleared, it doesn't go back. This is an
ironclad promise we can make to users because of the unique way we process
payments. Right now the model for peer-to-peer transactions is that after one
party gets paid the other waits for his merchandise or services to be
delivered (eWork projects). We solved this problem by creating a system that
will give equal distribution of control to both parties during the entire
process, disincentivising fraud on both sides. The system is specifically
designed for people who outsource projects, freelance workers, and cross
border peer-to-peer e-commerce. It would simulate the benefits of a face-to-
face interaction by solving the problems created by the distance and time
usually involved in these types of exchanges.
~~~
scott_s
Is "we" PayGuard? And are you saying you _won't_ "freeze, close or withdraw",
or that you _can't_? One is a promise. The other is a fact. See Colin
Percival's post on the distinction:
[http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2012-01-19-playing-
chicken-w...](http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2012-01-19-playing-chicken-with-
cat-jpg.html)
It's also not clear to me how what you describe prevents scams and money
laundering. Note that in the case of money laundering, it's the same party on
both sides of the transaction.
~~~
EREFUNDO
You are absolutely correct, it is a promise. But it is also a guarantee. There
are regulations regarding money laundering that we will have to comply with of
course. Users are required to fill out certain forms if the the amount of a
transaction exceed 3,000 for individuals and 20,000 for businesses. And these
are not just "per transaction", it is per month. As with scams our system is
specifically designed to prevent users from falling into the trap scam sellers
or buyers. Of course it will never be absolutely fool-proof, but it does
significantly reduce the incentive for fraudulent activities on both sides.
Unfortunately, I cannot give out too much detail on how we do it. We are
launching our beta system sometime around March and you will be more than
welcome to try it out as a beta tester.
------
thematt
I love Stripe and it's been awesome to use, but must repeat a question I asked
in another thread. I wonder if that level of simplicity is sustainable for
them going forward. The reason other payment providers have paperwork and
approval processes is because of liability and the reality that there are
unscrupulous merchants out there. Is Stripe assuming an increased liability
because of the ease at which anybody can just sign up?
~~~
collision
We think a lot about risk, and actually do more verification than traditional
merchant-account providers. We just don't make you do busywork like mailing us
a voided check or a utility bill.
We certainly believe that the approach is sustainable, and the data so far
strongly supports this.
~~~
thematt
Awesome, glad to hear it! Thanks for the disrupting the space, I know I'm not
the only one who appreciates it.
------
old-gregg
Stripe has been fantastic for us at <http://mailgun.net>
Aside from solving the problem of dealing with recurring payments, they bring
some unexpected benefits to the table. Their reporting (and the overall
dashboard design) is so good that we canceled our original plans for building
our own reporting completely - we just link directly to Stripe reports and
customer pages from our own backoffice admin portal.
~~~
iseff
Agreed. Stripe is working wonders for us at: <http://www.mobiledevhq.com>
We tried to integrate with PayPal's recurring APIs for three weeks, scrapped
it when we found Stripe, and had it completely ready to go in 24hrs.
Not to mention their customer support is absolutely fantastic. I get responses
within seconds in their Campfire chat room and hours if I send an email,
anytime of day.
------
rgrieselhuber
We were lucky in that Stripe was made available right as we were starting
<http://www.ginzametrics.com>. We never had to deal with the painful issues
that we've seen other companies go through with their billing systems.
Their dashboard has also come a long way so that many of the back office
management things I thought I was going to have to build have been taken care
of. You can create / manage plans, customers and more. It's hard to believe
nobody has solved this problem until now but I'm glad that somebody finally
did.
------
jc123
What is it about Stripe that is taking Google and Paypal a long time to
imitate? Article mentioned api took tons iterations and stringent auditing,
but the api is now known and auditing established companies should be
relatively faster. It seems unlikely that the first mover advantage will allow
enough time for Stripe to make a dent in the market. Flying under the radar
longer might be better, but congrats to the team for all the accomplishments.
------
davecap1
I wish it worked in Canada... Any other Canadians out there wishing the same
thing?
~~~
pc
We're working on this right now.
~~~
whatusername
And Please Please look at Australia as well
------
miles_matthias
Stripe looks so awesome that it's got me thinking about charging for things
that I might not have bothered charging for in the past. I think that's one of
the unseen benefits. I'm looking forward to using Stripe.
~~~
fbuilesv
A lot of people doesn't notice this, but when all you have to do to start
charging people is include a couple lines of Javascript then the game totally
changes. Imagine being able to charge (or just put a donation button) on all
those weekend projects you see advertised in HN!
I think that as soon as they start expanding outside the US the market for web
applications will radically change.
------
frankdenbow
Been very pleased working with Stripe for one of my projects. It just feels
like it was very carefully thought out. Hope they continue to make strides in
the developer community.
------
gtaylor
We're loving it over at <http://coursebookapp.com>. We've been happily humming
along for a few months, PayPal-free.
------
plasma
Please come to Australia!
I can't confirm or deny I'm working on a direct competitor.
Am I serious? Or joking, just to light a fire under you?
Please hurry! :)
~~~
ajtaylor
Seconded! The Australian market is ripe for a company like Stripe. People are
just now getting happy with buying things online, so hurry!
------
siavosh
Can someone explain how stripe/square can get around the merchant account
requirement?
~~~
lbotos
As far as I understand it, Stripe IS your merchant account. They are similar
to a Paypal type service. Does that help?
------
humbyvaldes
Stripe is great, simple and awesome support. Once I got past the super simple
first charge, I had some technical questions. I jumped into their support chat
and had my question answered, plus some helpful php links.
------
dedene
If only they would come to Europe (or any European alternative would rise and
stand up against Paypal).
They're an amazing and promising startup and I do hope they succeed soon in
expanding across the ocean.
~~~
pc
We're working on doing exactly this.
~~~
metadata
I would love to know expected timeframe. Being in Europe and not part of EU
(yet), handling payments is a major pain. Waiting for years to be able to
complete charge on my own site instead of redirecting to a payment processing
company. All that easy analytics and A/B testing opportunities....
------
rosstamicah
Here's how my startup ended up using Stripe: After being told by Paypal I
couldnt use Paypal at all (due to my business model being a violation of their
Acceptable Use Policy) and then more recently Braintree telling me I could
only process low number transactions (less than $250), Im happy to say that
<http://www.sponsorist.com> now processes payments with Stripe.
------
john_p_wood
I just finished using these guys for a product I'm launching next week. Great
service and great support. Highly recommended.
------
sailfast
Seems like a great service. Thanks for the article.
How does Stripe line up in terms of services compared to GoCardless which was
up here the other day: <https://gocardless.com/>
Differences in the agreement / metrics / UI / API? Seems like the 1.9% fee
difference could add up.
~~~
lfittl
This comes up again and again, unfortunately. Its Apples and Oranges - and I
get the feeling GoCardless don't say this clearly enough:
GoCardless does not process credit card transactions. They process bank debits
(= low fees, different system), and are UK only.
Stripe does process credit card transactions, and doesn't do bank debit.
------
djtriptych
Hehe the desk shown there is exactly the same setup at
<http://stripe.com/jobs> page. And yet none of the other workstations come
with $1500 Herman Miller Embodys...
I can also identify a pair of grados in the far right. Aging SR60s if I had to
guess...
~~~
jonah
The 'phones ont the desk behind the Embody appear to be Sennheiser HD 202.
[http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/privat...](http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_hifi_wired-
headphones_504291)
~~~
pc
They're actually just Bose QC15s.
~~~
jonah
Nice.
(I was looking at the ones in the Fast Co. photo.)
A lot of sweet bikes too!
------
neovive
Great product! Looking forward to trying it out very soon. Anyone know the
ergo keyboard being used?
~~~
patricklynch
Kinesis Advantage - <http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/>
~~~
chaz
Great keyboard ... have 3 of them. Really wish they would make a Bluetooth
one.
------
whyleyc
Can any of the Stripe team comment on when you'll be launching support for UK
businesses ?
~~~
pc
Sorry, we can't give a timeline. I wish we could.
~~~
westiseast
I wish you could too! What's stopping you right now?
~~~
patrickk
There's undoubtably tons of red tape for them to navigate whenever they enter
a new territory. See the linked article for the hassle they had in the States.
They also tried setting up in Ireland originally but some Irish banker pretty
much laughed them out of the room by the sound of things when they had a
meeting. Is there any wonder why the US is a more fertile environment for
entrepreneurship?
~~~
ajtaylor
Given what Irish bankers did to the country, I wouldn't give much credence to
their opinion. Unfortunately they still pull the strings and have incredible
political clout. I'm not even Irish (though I lived there a few years) and it
makes me sick thinking what the banks did, and then to foist it off onto the
Irish taxpayers. Ireland's loss is the US' gain!
------
kingnothing
This is completely off topic for the business model, but how do you like the
orange Embody chair in the last picture? It looks like the fabric is getting
dyed from jeans, but other than that, how is the actual chair?
~~~
richardw
I absolutely love mine. Love it. Had one for about 2 years and it fits like no
other chair I've tried. Only problem is that I have to remember to keep a
towel on it when I'm not here because one of our cats loves it. That's
unnecessary hassle for what is essentially a work tool, but if I didn't the
seat would be clawed up within months.
------
taurussai
AS businesses scale, is it fair to assume they would want to start accepting
and storing credit card information - basically the costs would be much lower?
If so how do they meet security requirements/compliance?
------
monsterix
We're using Stripe and it's been awesome right from day-1.
------
moses1400
Stripe has been awesome for us at CloudContacts!
------
plusbryan
Micropayments support would be wonderful
~~~
9999
I think it's essential for their success too. I can't use them without
micropayment support.
~~~
porterhaney
I'll second this notion. Even if there is a way to collect micropayments, but
not process them until they are large enough to process efficiently with the
current credit card framework.
~~~
mrkurt
It's reasonably easy to do this with Stripe today, there's no reason you have
to send a "charge" their way until it's accumulated enough to be worthwhile.
------
outside1234
does anyone know if there is a way to transfer credit cards from Stripe to
another 3rd party if they raise their rates? (I'm worried about this being a
"low introductory offer")
Or do you have to solicit credit card info from all your customers again?
~~~
aaronblohowiak
From their FAQ:
>Tell me about data portability. >That's not a question. We feel pretty
strongly about data portability. We'll try to keep you with us by offering a
better product than all of our competitors, but we won't keep you by locking
you in. If you want to leave us for somebody else, we'll help you migrate your
credit card data in a secure and PCI-compliant way. We're programmers at
heart, and we strongly believe in open systems and a level playing field.
------
_pius
Such a great service.
------
kenrik
If you read about the early founding of PayPal you will find one of the big
issues they faced was fraud. I hope they give that angle enough thought
otherwise they are going to start leaking cash like the Costa Concordia took
on water.
~~~
rogerbinns
On reading the article you would note in the second paragraph that two of the
backers are Paypal cofounders. That would lead us to expect Stripe do have a
big clue about the fraud issues.
It will only be later that we'll find out what happens behind the scenes. For
example Paypal works wonderfully right up until they decide to hold your funds
while they investigate. Stripe will probably end up doing something similar
and also have similar collateral damage (false positives).
The Stripe FAQ includes a chargeback section which would cover the other
likely scenario - people claiming not to have received the item/never made the
transaction/it wasn't what they ordered etc.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The 'Samsung Was the Real Winner' Theory - shawndumas
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/08/31/the-samsung-was-the-real-winner-theory
======
uvTwitch
It would be nice if his flippant and biased opinion was backed up with any
sort of supporting evidence whatsoever.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Just finish it - pknerd
http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2012/02/19/just-finish-it/
======
rob_zim
As a habitual 'starter' I think an important step in reaching 'finished' is to
pick a domain where you have sufficient experise. If too much learning or
experimentation will be required the project has the potential to be derailed
during those phases.
*Thankfully my current project has reached an alpha state. Thats kind of like finished...right?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to persuade the CEO to remain focus on his role - alanmorph
Hello HN,<p>The CEO at my startup is a great guy with solid salesmanship and communication skill.<p>However he's neglecting his role of making contracts and relationships with 3rd parties and is discretely "communicating" with interns to produce outputs that won't be needed for the next three months.<p>Thing is he does not notify me, who will use those output for the product. And he does not have technical background or previous experience with the industry either.<p>What should I do, as the main tech guy, to make him be transparent with his "suggestion"?
======
philjr
There's no right answer to this problem as all the nuances are situational.
It's difficult to assess the situation without understanding the context but
the first question I'd have is are you one "hop" from the ceo .... I.e. Do you
report directly to him or do you have the relationship with him to tackle this
directly.
That's the starting point. If you two are close (I don't mean holidays with
each other's families close - close in terms of you working together) then you
need to start establishing regular communication channels. Setup a weekly
meeting and make sure that you represent what you need from him to do your
job.
Regular communication is the key part of this and then tackle these issues
head on with the Ceo. Most people I find struggling with these types of
situations (particularly men) let this stuff boil and boil and then boil over
one day where they get annoyed or angry and feel like they've now
"communicated" the problem to the individual. It may take weeks to help him
understand if there is behaviour that is detrimental to the business. Set that
expectation with yourself first and be patient with how you communicate. First
part of that is discovery... Don't accuse, just ask questions. If you've built
yourself up in to an annoyed state because of this then calm down first before
entering in to these conversations. Most people are not able to conceal how
they feel so the probing questions come across as accusatory both in tone and
language.
All of that being said, if there is behaviour that needs to be corrected,
communicate that to him clearly after you're sure you've exhausted the
discovery route.
My pop manager diagnosis here is that if you're coming on to an Internet forum
to ask for advice then you're not communicating enough with your colleague
(ignore he's the ceo)
If you're not high enough in the food chain to make that representation then
there's precious little you can do apart from trying to build a relationship
to have that communication.
------
JSeymourATL
> How to persuade the CEO to remain focus on his role...
This is a classic instance of Managing Up. Stuart Diamond has some solid
advice in this area; turn every instance of potential conflict into an
instance of advisement. He often uses a disarmingly simple conversation
starter "Are you happy?"
Recommend his book. Here's his presentation @ Google; which covers a lot of
the content >
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOZo6Lx70ok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOZo6Lx70ok)
------
tixocloud
It's important to have a conversation to iron out these issues. Have a
dialogue with him. Be frank but also be open to listening to his side of the
story - why does he do what he does? How does he feel about his role and
responsibilities?
You may see him as neglecting his role building relationships but he may see
his role as getting people to build stuff.
Either way, the open communication will help you get down to the root cause
and really determine if he's the guy to go to battle with or if you need to
replace him.
------
MichaelCrawford
he should not be the CEO.
I suggest that you make your concerns known to the board of directors; among
the reasons we have director boards is so they can correct problems like this.
There is some possibility he would be suitable for some other position at your
company.
~~~
sebastianconcpt
That's completely premature, you didn't even suggested they should talk first
so they learn together what they need now and mature their relationship,
instead, you suggested that who ask should jump to big guns in a way that can
potentially change the path of that startup forever.
I suggest nobody should do bold blind suggestions nor follow them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WHO study on Covid-19: We estimated that the median of estimated R0 is 5.7 - paganel
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article
======
Endlessly
If R0 is truly 5.7 - roughly 82.46% of the population must become immune
before “herd immunity” kicks in.
((R0 − 1)/R0) is known as the “herd immunity threshold” — that is, with an R0
value of 5.7 the computation would be ((5.7 - 1)/5.7) or 82.46%
Learn more here, — “Herd Immunity”: A Rough Guide:
[https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077#3862683](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077#3862683)
As a comparison, here are the R0 values of other well-known infectious
diseases:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number)
~~~
berberous
I read this recently:
I've noticed a fair number of people assuming the herd immunity threshold, 1 -
1/R0, is the total proportion of the population infected. It isn't; it's the
proportion of the population immune (i.e. has had the disease; in this model
that's assumed to confer immunity) at which the epidemic stops growing. The
total proportion of the population infected is called the epidemic final size
(I'll call it 'F'), and is given by
F = 1 - e-R0*F
This is higher. Lots higher. For R0 = 2, it's 80%. For R0 = 3.4 (the WHO
estimate), it's 96%.
~~~
Endlessly
Appreciate the information, though citing notable sources might help others
understand and add credibility too.
For example, “Herd immunity & epidemic final size” covers the topic:
[http://alizon.ouvaton.org/Report2_Immunization.html](http://alizon.ouvaton.org/Report2_Immunization.html)
------
glofish
Obviously that can't quite be universally right, look at Brazil, look at
Malaysia, India. Look at Easter Europe. It is pretty clear it can't be 5.7 all
across the board.
~~~
joe_the_user
Ro is the spread without mitigating factors, so Ro is more or less assumed
constant.
That said, there's no reason to think the particular places you're naming are
either doing effective testing or mitigating factors. People tossing around
the statistics of a given country without looking deeply at the testing
process have been confusing the situation for a while here.
Moreover, a lot of these quotes wind-up wrong as they're stated. "Look at
Eastern Europe". I can see fast exponential in Romania, maybe other parts of
the area are still in "don't ask, don't tell" but doesn't prove anything.
~~~
glofish
we will see, but it is just hard to fathom that with all these social
distancing measures in place you still have 400K in the US and seemingly very
few in Brazil and all these other places where for large swaths of the
population social distancing is not an option.
It might be that the R0 is far more variable than assumed.
~~~
dragontamer
> social distancing measures in place
R0 is the measurement of what will happen WITHOUT social distancing.
In effect, researchers calculate R0 to determine if social distancing /
lockdowns / etc. etc. would be worthwhile.
\------
The virus's real reproductive rate is called "R" (which is obviously lower
now, due to social distancing / masks / etc. etc.). R0 is the "if we did
nothing" variable.
~~~
Cpoll
What's the correct way to say 'R0 with social distancing?'
That is to say, R0 in a hypothetical place that was always practicing social
distancing?
Because as I understand it, R0 is used to calculate herd immunity, but a lot
of people are curious about what the herd immunity numbers would look like if
we continued to take measures such as 6ft/2m distancing and wearing masks
(efficacy debated, I know) and face shields.
------
et2o
This does not seem to be a WHO study, as far as I can tell?
~~~
tastroder
Yeah, not sure where op got the "WHO" part of the title from, the site says:
"Author affiliations: Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico,
USA"
------
sphix0r
Based on Chinese data. I very much doubt the accuracy of Chinese data.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Should I approach poorly made web sites with better designs? - chrisshroba
I'm a college student and would love some extra money, and I have some experience with web development. Do you think it would be worthwhile to approach small companies and venues whose web sites appear outdated and poorly maintained with the offer of making them a new web site on the cheap? I'd love to get some feedback on this, and I wonder if it's already maybe done a lot already? Thanks!!
======
declandewet
It's certainly something you could do, but don't be discouraged when you
realise that your potential clients aren't too fond of being told their
current online presence sucks. Perhaps also approach local businesses that
don't even have an online presence at all and sell them on getting one to
supplement for that risk.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Wallet is here and it looks awesome | Front Side Bus - matteodallombra
http://www.frontsidebus.net/2011/09/19/google-wallet-is-here-and-it-looks-awesome/
======
albahk
Its a great step for NFC adoption in the US but permit me to brag a little by
showing you the NFC-payment system in Hong Kong (Octopus Card) which you can
use in:
\- all public transport (subway, bus, tram, ferry, etc)
\- shops (7-11, drugstore etc)
\- as access card to buildings, offices, residence
... and on a run-down boat which charges you HK$1.80 per ride (US$0.23). This
is the ultimate Mom and Pop shop.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_EtTiLP_EE>
------
alexhaefner
Well according to this:
<http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-chance-credit-card.html>
Credit card technology in the US has been stagnant for a while. It looks like
Google is trying to solve a worthwhile problem. But I imagine that many users
might feel hesitancy, and early adopters will find a lot of places where there
Google wallet just doesn't work.
Digital wallets will be a nice change of pace from having to carry different
physical cards with information on them that can be easily stolen.
------
signalsignal
Do anyone* think that the required NFC-enabled credit card terminals will be
sold cheaply enough for all the small Mom and Pop businesses in the US to
adopt this over the more familiar technology, non-NFC-enabled credit card
terminals?
I imagine that this will go the way of Google Health eventually.
*Outside of Google
~~~
culturestate
Mom-and-pop, maybe not, but there are already a ton of NFC-enabled machines
out there. Around here (Florida) I can even use the chip in my AmEx to buy a
soda.
------
Estragon
I basically treat my phone the way I would a windows machine. I download lots
of apps without too much concern for their integrity, because I really have no
way to track what's going on on it (is there tripwire for android?.) No way am
I going to put financial information on it.
~~~
ineedtosleep
And that's why I'm going to use the prepaid Google card option and keep only
<$10 or $20 in it at all times. I doubt I would use this for huge
transactions, but the main thing: I see lots of stores that have the
NFC/Paypass machines, but rarely do they have them on/functional. I received
my Visa Paypass card more than a year ago and have yet to use the Paypass
functionality.
------
moab9
If they can ultimately bypass the credit card services/fees then I can see the
significance of this, otherwise isn't it just adding another step to the
credit card purchasing process?
What am I missing?
~~~
thinkcomp
You're not missing anything.
While services like ours (FaceCash, <https://www.facecash.com>) bypass the
credit card interchange and lower fees as a result, Google is just emulating
what everyone already has and adding extra cost to the equation for merchants.
~~~
faitswulff
I'm sorry because this is unrelated, but speaking as an interested and even
encouraging consumer, FaceCash has some of the most horrendous branding I have
ever seen.
The logo looks childish at best, nightmarish at worst, and the motto is
vaguely threatening. Didn't the Joker make someone sign with his face in The
Dark Knight? As I recall, it was fatal. The narrator of the videos needs a
drink of water - the smacking sounds are incredibly distracting - and the
reason the name sounds so terrible is because it's a near-homophone for "Face
Gash."
I really want to love this. I do. It sounds really useful. But I can't even
look at it without flinching.
But, as my English teacher was fond of saying during critiques, feel free to
tell me to go to hell. Perhaps I am not in your target market.
~~~
thinkcomp
You can't please everyone. A lot of people like the logo. The narrator has
also received a lot of compliments.
------
drivebyacct2
Why do I still want to have POS systems and have to have a "credit card". So
instead of the piece of plastic, I have to carry my phone and a piece of
plastic?
I'd much prefer to see a comprehensive shift away from the credit card
companies and PoS systems entirely.
~~~
thinkcomp
I agree!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using Jupyter Notebooks for SysAdmin, CloudOps and DevOps Workflows - rb808
http://www.informaticslab.co.uk/process/2017/05/08/jupyter-for-sysadmin-devops-cloudops-workflows.html
======
rb808
I really like this idea - notebooks are a nice hybrid between scripts and
command lines.
I've seen a few mentions around the web about people talking but no real
usage. Has anyone tried and succeeded or failed?
~~~
existencebox
Heavy disclaimer; I'm a dev for MS azure notebooks team, but even prior to
this role (and largely WHY I joined the team) is that I'd been using the
notebooks in an analytics/devops role, managing dataset
existence/movement/endpoint calls (the underlying work was rather mundane,
forecasting/strategic analytics, textual analysis).
From a purely infrastructural side, the potential of that fusion is a large
reason why we include the azure management libs out of box in our notebooks
offering. Even from a non-azure-specific perspective, I found it very nice to
be able to do things like "Oh I'm running an existing analytics script on a
new team's target DB, let me run the cell that creates a new set of tables and
blobs for that novel flow" and have that all within the same workspace and UX.
Perhaps obviously, it's not a replacement for all the sort of things you need
ops scripts for, but of the class of "ad-hoc tasks"/"ops tasks relating
heavily to the logical code" I found it made my life easier.
(After writing this I went poking around to see if I could follow this up with
"real examples"; we have one of those mixed-mode examples I mention above in
our own docs ([1] and [2]); again let me echo the very "my own team" bias
warning :) All of what I'm discussing can be accomplished with core Jupyter,
in some form or another.)
[1]
[https://notebooks.azure.com/Microsoft/libraries/samples/html...](https://notebooks.azure.com/Microsoft/libraries/samples/html/Creation%20and%20Deployment%20of%20an%20Azure%20ML%20Web%20Service.ipynb)
[2]
[https://notebooks.azure.com/Microsoft/libraries/samples/html...](https://notebooks.azure.com/Microsoft/libraries/samples/html/Getting%20to%20your%20Data%20in%20Azure%20Notebooks.ipynb)
~~~
rb808
Thanks its great to hear someone else using it successfully. Still I'd like
some more stories before trying to set it up as our company standard.
~~~
existencebox
Absolutely fair; I wouldn't do anything less myself :)
If I may be somewhat mercenary and use the fact that I have you as a "testing
the water" person hostage, what sort of stories/examples would be impactful to
you? (Both as a MS employee and as a "I'd like to be better at understanding
what moves the needle" in a general sense) I imagine "working, hardened proofs
of concept and real e2e implementations" broadly, but if any scenarios/tech
would stand out to you.
~~~
rb808
I need a solution that makes it easy for front line support people to support
multiple server applications. A consistent way to start, stop, tail log file,
run some commands and maybe deploy.
Ideally I'd like to hear that many big organizations already use Jupyter or
some product to do this. Doesn't sound like its the case though.
~~~
existencebox
From my perspective as someone who did ops for bigcos before I knew about
jupyter: It's still a rather new tech. Runbooks, script libraries, CMSes, are
still king for most sysop flows. I agree with and share your view of the
promise that notebooks offer, but given the often lagging momentum of the
biggest corps, I'd be surprised if one was already using a relatively new tech
pervasively. (thus my "how do I motivate this change" question :P since I've
certainly found value in it)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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John Baez Responds To Eliezer Yudkowsky Interview On Existential Risks - bermanoid
http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/what-to-do/
======
jeffcoat
Seeing Baez mention Yudokowsky is a bit surreal -- it's a bit like Amazon
talking about the book-selling startup I'm totally planning to launch someday.
If the name isn't familiar to you, Dr. Baez starting writing a blog before we
had a name for the thing: _This Week's Finds In Mathematical Physics_ started
in 1993. I can't think of any better way for a student or interested layman
(very, very interested, and willing to deal with mathematics) to understand
what theoretical physics is about.
<http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/>
<http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/TWF.html>
~~~
bermanoid
Indeed - when I was majoring in math (more than a decade ago), a professor
pointed me towards John Baez's Usenet posts and suggested I keep up on them.
I've been hooked ever since.
I was initially dismayed when I heard that he was leaving math for
environmentalism, but having read his recent posts on network theory, it's
clear that he hasn't completely left his mathematical passions behind. I was
extremely interested when I heard that he and Eliezer had been talking, it's a
strange meeting of worlds, but a really fascinating one.
IMO Baez should really write some books. He consistently explains highly
technical and difficult topics in a way that they become comprehensible even
to a lay observer; he could very easily do something along the lines of
Penrose's _Road To Reality_ and bring some of the high-falootin abstract
nonsense down to an understandable level.
------
pfedor
In case you missed it, there is an exchange in the comments section between
Eliezer Yudkowsky and Greg Egan.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread - simonpure
https://simongray.github.io/essays/spread.html
======
tensor
Startup time isn't what is holding the language back. In my opinion it's:
1\. Tooling. You end up spending way more time getting your tooling setup than
it should be. 2\. Difficulty in learning. 3\. Clear best practices and
frameworks. The philosophy of composing libraries is extremely powerful, but
to gain broader adoption you still need straight forward frameworks and
opinionated best practices.
The last point has many unintuitive consequences. Clojure tends to attract
people who enjoy doing new things, or excelling in their craft. But mass
adoption also means catering to people who need to do "boring" things where
people just want to get their job done. For boring code, which is the reality
for many developers, they just want a clear best practice to get the stuff
done.
This could be a clear standard library or framework for a task, a clear
architectural pattern, and it certainly means easy to access code snippets.
There have been some attempts at these things, e.g. Luminous for the web, but
the community hasn't rallied around them with enough weight to make newcomers
comfortable.
So when faced with choosing: a testing library, any number of libraries
compose into a web service, any number of approaches to client side, then in
the end still having 100 equally good ways to architect a given piece of code
that requires thinking mathematically, well, it's daunting. Especially when
you are new to the language and just want to get your boring CRUD app working.
Maybe this is best summed up as saying that Clojure caters to the creative,
but to gain widespread adoption it also needs to cater to those stuck writing
boring code and just want to be done with it as fast as possible.
~~~
hota_mazi
I think you are omitting the main reason why Clojure never succeeded: it's
dynamically typed at the core.
It's on the wrong side of history in that respect.
I know it's trying very hard to catch up to statically typed languages now by
retrofitting some type system, but it's too little, too late.
Static types are where the current state of the art is, and we're not going
back. Clojure missed that train and will never catch it now.
~~~
slowmovintarget
Static types are the new religion, like OOP was in the 90s.
Types solve 2% of programming errors. They lead to coupling for the sake of
the compiler, and make code harder to change, harder to write, and often
needlessly constrain the utility of the code where they're applied.
But they do make the IDE code-completion go, so there's that.
~~~
exdsq
Can you reference "Types solve 2% of programming errors"? I've read numerous
research papers and blogs on this topic and have never seen anything as low as
2%.
Edit: Googled and nope, can't find anything.
~~~
didibus
Here are some which look at GitHub for various languages and count the defect
rates by analysing commit messages:
[https://dev.to/danlebrero/the-broken-promise-of-static-
typin...](https://dev.to/danlebrero/the-broken-promise-of-static-typing)
[https://www.i-programmer.info/news/98-languages/11184-which-...](https://www.i-programmer.info/news/98-languages/11184-which-
languages-are-bug-prone.html)
[https://nextjournal.com/PRL-PRG/toplas-analysis](https://nextjournal.com/PRL-
PRG/toplas-analysis)
One thing to note is that the absolute difference in terms of bugs from the
worst language to the best is still minimal. So language choice doesn't seem
to make or break software.
Another thing to note is that while overall static languages faired better in
terms of having lower defects, Clojure did best of all.
I knew of another one but can't find it again.
Then there are a few where they had beginner programmers implement trivial
programs in different programming language and checked how many errors/time it
took them. But I consider those all pretty bad since the experiments are so
reductionist. So I won't list them. They aren't conclusive either. Some end up
saying static and dynamic are same, some say dynamic is more productive at
equal defect, and some say static had less defects at equal productivity.
------
vemv
My personal perspective (after 8 years clojuring, half of that professionally)
is that Clojure keeps progressing, with ever better tools and ideas for
getting stuff done, optimally. I remain optimistic.
At the same time, it still fails at my "golden test": can I gather 5 random
freelance engineers and get them to ship a project within a few months,
wasting almost no billable time?
I can (and have) with Ruby, Typescript. People can learn those on the go,
being productive on day 3 or so.
Clojure is still bit of a journey on itself, involving quite a lot of stuff to
learn, and plenty of choices to make.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor Clojure's "fault", but it's a real
cost/risk that is still there.
I do envision a future where the mainstream is ideologically closer to
Clojure, and Clojure offers an (even) more polished set of tools than today.
With that mutual proximity, Clojure could indeed eat the world.
~~~
ken
Maybe I’m just dense, but I certainly have not been productive with any
language on day 3. (Not even Ruby, which feels comfortable faster than most
languages.) I sometimes _felt_ productive that soon but I always end up having
to rewrite once I learn the language fully.
I’ve learned enough languages that I can spot “a person’s first program in X”
now pretty easily.
~~~
vemv
My background is freelancing/consulting where it's not uncommon to gather
diverse individuals to work on a greenfield project.
There's an implicit assumption that all participants know a thing or two about
programming, and accordingly are apt learners.
So yes, on day 3 the code won't be perfect, neither on day 6 but after a few
code reviews one can get stuff done.
Personally I wouldn't be comfortable prescribing Clojure for such a project,
in contrast to other languages which I've never coded in, but that I know that
socially, today, work better.
------
shivekkhurana
I shifted to writing Clojure full time in November 2017 and feel that I've
improved greatly as a developer.
Other languages taught me how to solve problems their way, Clojure taught me
how to solve problems.
My biggest hurdle while getting started was lack of Newbie friendly resources.
And the language is kinda scary at first, specially if you are like me and
have spent 5 years working with Python or JS.
Dr. Fynmann said that if you want to get better at something, teach it.
Following his advice I've published multiple articles [1][2][3][4] and given a
talk about Clojure at a js conf [5].
The tooling is steadily improving. I don't think it will be as widespread as
JS but I doubt if it aims to be. Clojure seems to attract a certain kind of
developers anyways.
\---
[1] What I learned after writing Clojure for 424 days, straight
[https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-424-days](https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-424-days)
Learn Clojure by building a drug dealer api [2]
[https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-drug-dealer-
part-1](https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-drug-dealer-part-1) [3]
[https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-drug-dealer-
part-2](https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-drug-dealer-part-2) [4]
[https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-drug-dealer-
part-3](https://krimlabs.com/blog/clojure-drug-dealer-part-3)
[5] If you are going to transpile JS, why not use ClojureScript?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs44qdAX5yo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs44qdAX5yo)
------
lbj
Thats last few sentences make no sense. The argument is that uptake is stunted
by the JVM's slow startup time, making it unsuitable for commandline utils or
desktop apps. However thats easily fixed which was never more hillariously
stated than when Rich Hickey did it a decade ago. A blogpost went viral and it
was a thunderous critique of Clojure, focused on this single point of slow
start up. In the comment section was only 1 reply from Rich:
time java -client -jar clojure.jar helloworld.clj
> system time 0.0001s
The -client param makes all the difference :)
~~~
mistersys
Uhm.. I want to give the benefit of the doubt, but frankly this seems
deceptive, or at least out of date, unless I'm totally missing something.
Why is there no magical --client / \--script option for the Clojure ClI to
make startup faster, if this is such an easy solution? Also, you show system
time, but the time to load dependencies is in user time, which is slow by the
nature of Clojure.
Example:
$ time java -client -classpath /usr/local/Cellar/clojure /1.10.1.492/libexec/clojure-tools-1.10.1.492.jar clojure.main hello.clj
Hello, world
java -client -classpath clojure.main scripts/script.clj 1.39s user 0.08s system 187% cpu 0.788 total
$ time java -classpath /usr/local/Cellar/clojure/1.10.1.492/libexec/clojure-tools-1.10.1.492.jar clojure.main hello.clj
Hello, world
java -classpath clojure.main scripts/script.clj 1.37s user 0.09s system 180% cpu 0.811 total
(Excuse the details of my Clojure install location above)
User time appears slightly slower without the -client option, but probably is
not statistically significant. Also, anyone who has worked on more than a toy
project with Clojure knows that it's not just about the Hello World startup
speed, every dependency you add has a significant impact on Clojure startup
time.
~~~
stingraycharles
As mentioned in other comments, the -client option is ignored on 64 bit JVMs,
so it has no practical effect. Giving the benefit of doubt, Rich Hickey must
have been using a 32 bit JVM.
~~~
thu2111
That's not quite it. The client/server distinction was removed from the JVM
_many_ years ago. These days the JVM switches between modes on the fly on a
per-method basis, this is called tiered compilation, so the optimisations are
in effect on by default. Back in 2006 yes it may have made a big difference
but it wouldn't have made startup magically instant.
IIRC Clojure apps are slow to start because they do a lot of first-time setup
work that isn't actually executing user code. It's not so much a JVM problem
as a Clojure-emitted-code problem. The GraalVM native-image tool fixes it
because it can start an app in a pre-initialised state.
~~~
stingraycharles
I understand, but either way, the example Rich Hickey used to execute the
sample Clojure application in less than a millisecond seems impossible?
In other words, if Rich' example is real and recent, what could possibly be
the environment in which this worked?
~~~
thu2111
Yeah. Not sure - maybe it dates from a time when clojure was just a toy or
prototype or something.
------
Random_ernest
I really like Clojure, it's a well designed language and one can get quite
productive, surprisingly fast.
My core criticism that is not really mentioned in the article is the error
messages. At the beginning I often felt lost and had no idea where to look if
something went wrong.
~~~
innocentoldguy
I like Clojure too but its less-than-useful error messages are what got me
interested in Elixir. I still get Lisp-style macros with a better syntax (for
me) and outstanding error messages (generally speaking).
------
PaulRobinson
I used to work at a large Clojure shop. I've moved on, and I've heard
anecdotally that they are building most new stuff in Go.
Barrier for entry and continued use in that limited experience was:
\- Learning curve for new developers is very high in comparison to other
languages, so moving existing engineers over sucks.
\- Experienced Clojure developers want a job where they can "do Clojure", not
necessarily because they're interested in the problems the business was
created to solve, so hiring sucks.
\- Lots of conversations turn to "the Clojure way" to solve a problem rather
than using industry accepted protocols, standards and tooling. I mean, OK, but
this makes interacting with the rest of the World a bit sucky.
\- Most libraries never get to v1.0. Most people write 0.0.1 and may do some
minor updates so you see it get to 0.0.5 and then it stays there. That's
probably because it all 'just works', but it scares most devs when they see
that and are about to bake it into their next release.
\- Deployment is a known quantity and the JVM is useful in this regard, but it
doesn't have the pure simplicity that some other runtimes do. Clojure
implementations in other runtimes (Joker, Clojerl, etc.), might help or hinder
here.
Startup time is a problem on CLI and desktop apps, sure. At my ex-employer,
one server deployed app took several minutes to start and that had challenges.
That was not - I think - the reason the team started to look elsewhere or the
reason I'm more likely to pick up Ruby, Python, Go or Elixir for my next
project. There are lots of rough edges like the ones I identify above - many
of them cultural - that need to be smoothed out a little, I think.
I look forward to functional methods becoming mainstream (again?), and Clojure
could get there, so I wish the community luck.
~~~
thu2111
_Experienced Clojure developers want a job where they can "do Clojure"_
This seems like a common problem with functional languages in general. I've
heard the same thing about Haskell, repeatedly. Such devs search out a place
where a Haskeller/Clojurist got into a tech lead position and then all pile
in, before you know it the team is spending half its time writing DSL
compilers instead of adding features to the product.
_I look forward to functional methods becoming mainstream (again?)_
Has it ever been mainstream? AFAIK it's always been this basically strange
offshoot of the family tree that split off a long time in the past.
The core problems you highlight don't have any obvious solution,
unfortunately. Learning materials can be improved but ultimately Lisp is very
old and very unlike more modern languages. Libraries not getting to 1.0 is a
symptom of a small community that derives more satisfaction from an
intellectual exploration than having lots of users, combined with lack of
commercially driven outcomes. Startup time I guess can be solved with
technical solutions (and is being solved, as a side-effect of other projects
elsewhere in the JVM ecosystem).
------
ooooak
1\. In India, there are only ~100 jobs for a Clojure developer. That includes
people just throwing in Clojure just to hire Java/Scala developer.
2\. The learning curve for the Clojure. Clojure is simple but it's not easy by
any means.
3\. JVM interop if you are not a java developer it adds in more learning time.
Most of the Clojure libraries use java heavily. It's a good thing but it adds
in an extra layer of learning java's ecosystem.
4\. Error messages. Even after years of Clojure. I still find it hard.
5\. Documentation. Most of the packages I use don't have dedicated websites or
good documentation.
Even after all the issues. It's still worth the investment. I started working
on a crawler for a freelance gig. we first built it using Golang. But due to
its complexity and lots of bugs due to mutation. We ported it to Clojure and
we are not looking back.
~~~
Heliosmaster
To be honest, I've done Clojure full-time (and exclusively) for 6 years now.
I've almost never had to use Java interop. (With CLJS I did a little more JS
interop).
There were always wrappers written by somebody else that always did what I was
looking for.
------
pgt
The most interesting Clojure-like language around is, IMO, Carp[^1]. Carp is a
Lisp written in Haskell that compiles down to C with Rust ownership semantics
and looks like Clojure. So you get a GC-less Lisp with fast startup time that
is suitable for game development with the safety guarantees of Rust.
[^1]: [https://github.com/carp-lang/Carp](https://github.com/carp-lang/Carp)
~~~
hcarvalhoalves
It doesn't seem to have immutable data structures by default and concurrency
primitives. That changes greatly how you write algorithms and structure your
program.
It's cool, but it's like the complete opposite of the main ideas behind
Clojure.
------
anmonteiro90
It'd be interesting to back the claim that "Clojure is (slowly) eating the
world.".
Interestingly, that's absolutely not my perspective and I don't see any
sources for that statement in the post.
~~~
simongray
I was talking about its ever expanding reach. It was more of an intertextual
reference to the Andreessen Horowitz classic than an ideological statement
about the popularity of Clojure, that is why I also added the (slowly).
~~~
anmonteiro90
That makes sense but it's not what comes across. The sentence immediately
after says that "the language continues to grow". That's what I'm questioning.
~~~
simongray
That is my impression, especially 2019 seems to have been a turning point
after 1-2 years of relative stagnation, but I get that you feel differently.
That's why you switched to OCaml ;-)
~~~
Scarbutt
Looks like its peak was in 2014[0] and since then it has been declining.
[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=c...](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=clojure)
~~~
iLemming
How is it declining? Every single year we're adding 3-5 new conferences, last
year alone - Ukraine, Russia, Brazil, India, Canada. New books being
published. There are number of active podcasts (more than for any other FP
lang). Latest JVM survey shown - Clojure has become more popular than Scala
(largely due to Kotlin), but still surprisingly so. There's a Clojure related
post on HN top, almost every week, sometimes multiple times a week.
Sure, it ain't Typescript or whatever, but it's definitely not declining.
~~~
piokoch
Maybe it just means that there is a small and vocal community around Clojure -
being on HN means that something is interesting for HN community, but it does
not translate to wider adoption necessarily.
When Clojure was started it didn't have much competition in JVM languages
space. There was Scala only. Right now we have also Kotlin, which seems to be
hitting the sweet spot between being a better Java and being difficult to
grasp (like Scala or Clojure). In addition Java alone is getting better, so it
is harder and harder to eat its cake.
~~~
iLemming
> Maybe it just means that there is a small and vocal community around Clojure
There's relatively small but vocal Emacs community. There are no books being
published; almost no podcasts; it took forever to organize a conference, but
they still couldn't find a venue, so it was a video-conference. Every few
years there's a new "Emacs killer" but the ecosystem (after over 40 years) is
very much alive and thriving.
Same thing can be said about Clojure. It's a very vibrant ecosystem and
there's a lot happening in Clojuresphere, but of course, with almost every
post about Clojure, there would be at least one person to claim - "Clojure is
dying." Well, if that's true, then buckle-up folks. It's going to be a very
long, steady ride.
------
maehwasu
As someone who uses Clojure a lot:
It would be a lot better for language adoption if people would write more blog
posts showing best practices for tooling, and less vague stuff about how
awesome the language is.
For example, the startup time thing is completely irrelevant if you use
Emacs/VSCode with a standalone REPL that you connect to.
It's non-trivial to set this up (more because of lack of consolidated info
rather than time it takes), but it can easily be standardized across
machines/envs (I Dockerize all projects in a simple way to allow team members
to get started up with REPLs easily).
~~~
dragandj
I totally agree, and that's why I am going to write a book about that:
[https://twitter.com/draganrocks/status/1226811229362147331](https://twitter.com/draganrocks/status/1226811229362147331)
It has to wait until I wrap up the books that are currently in progress [1],
but I expect to start this summer.
[1] [https://aiprobook.com](https://aiprobook.com)
~~~
maehwasu
Awesome.
To put my own money when my mouth is, here is the bash script to start up a
nREPL server in Docker:
[https://pastebin.com/PPmfDPyA](https://pastebin.com/PPmfDPyA)
Here is the Dockerfile:
[https://pastebin.com/ymcUFdYT](https://pastebin.com/ymcUFdYT)
And here is a sample deps.edn with the cider alias:
[https://pastebin.com/2a7vSFD7](https://pastebin.com/2a7vSFD7)
To run this, you'd just put them all in one directory, run cider-up.sh, and
then connect to the REPL with Cider in EMACS, or in Calva for VSCode with
"Jack in to or Connect to REPL Server" and then "localhost" "4444"
------
didibus
For me, this article is spot on. I had been looking for a long time for my one
language I can use for everything, and Clojure finally (just recently) got
there. I can use it for scripting, writing command line apps, making backend
services, writing web front-ends, making desktop applications with GUI, toying
with generative art, doing data-science, making games, and more.
It really has great reach, and its only getting better. Similarly, in terms of
programming language, you can use it to explore many paradigms and innovative
ideas, like CSP, logic, probabilistic, functional, meta, concurrent, dynamic,
typed, contracts, data-flow, OOP, condition systems, monads, etc. All this
keeps me interested and constantly learning. Never having to wait for features
you miss or wish you had.
I can see myself sticking with Clojure for a long time.
------
rubyn00bie
Last week some nice folks assured me tooling was good in Clojure; and not a
total time suck, and so I'm getting ready to take the jump I think... but, one
thing I'm still really skeptical about... is embodied in this paragraph:
> The way the languages are integrated today, Clojure developers doing full-
> stack development don’t really have to think about data
> serialisation/deserialisation. Writing code for frontend and backend differ
> mostly just in the way that the different implementations access the host
> platform. The functional aspects of Clojure, especially the immutability and
> focus on referential transparency, ensure that source code is mostly split
> into chunks of highly portable code, with the host-interop conveniently put
> aside in its own sections. You can move code between frontend and backend at
> your leisure.
Is it really that good using Clojure across environments and runtimes?
I ask because I tried all of this with Scala years ago (I loved the language)
and Ruby to an extent, but it was pretty miserable or rather there was really
no reward but more effort on my part. I.e. I'd spend more time annotating,
bridging, and learning how to interact with the different runtime than I would
writing actual feature code[1].
Or like what are the killer libraries everyone loves? Do they
(libs/frameworks) support different clojure runtimes ("hosts?") outta the box?
Is it easy to write "pure clojure" projects that work for any clojure project?
The one I know about or have heard most about was Datatomic, which always
sounded freakin' brilliant, but I don't fucks with non-free databases. Arcadia
I just saw and it looks cool but, it also seems like a dumb mountain to climb,
if that's how I wanted to start screwing around with Clojure.
[1] Tools like Scala/ScalaJS and RubyMotion (back in the day, heh), were the
reasons I ended up a polyglot. They're great tools, if you know the platform,
if you don't, you're pretty much still fucked... but once you know the
platform it's kind of hard to want to use them.
~~~
scarredwaits
I can attest that full stack (server-browser) Clojure code sharing works very-
very smoothly. I've been developing web applications like that for some time
now, and apart from less context swithing (because it's the same language on
both sides), sizeable parts of the code are cross-compiled to run both on the
browser and the JVM with very little or no extra effort.
Example 1: I'm using Clojure's Spec library for validation. There is code that
is used on the browser to validate the input that users enter into forms, and
the same exact code is used on the HTTP endpoints that are called when the
user attempts to submit the form.
Example 2: I'm using the Tongue library to provide client-side translations of
the whole UI, but the same data files and library are used in some cases on
the server to generate files that contain translated strings.
Example 3: The web UI logic is written using pure data manipulation (thank the
Re-frame library for that) and because of that we are able to unit test it on
the JVM without having to go through the complecity of launching and driving a
browser on our CI server.
~~~
rubyn00bie
Thank you so much for the response!
Number 3 has me totally stoked; since that's incredibly valuable-- or like a
dream to me to be honest, could you speak more about how that works? Is it
just from using re-frame (which I'm looking at as I write this)? Is it able to
test for visual regressions because of the pure-data UI? Or like how have you
found that testing functionality in practice has it been saving y'all a lot of
bugs and headaches you think?
~~~
rufugee
Agreed... would love to hear more about this as well....
~~~
simongray
Check out my reply to rubyn00bie.
------
abrax3141
I don’t actually get the big deal about enforced immutability. Of course, you
need to constrain yourself in certain circumstances to do things immutably,
but it seems like something that should be contextual (immutably ...), rather
than enforcing it. In fact, sometimes it is necessary in high performance
multi—threaded/multi-processor environments to use side effects judiciously.
Moreover, most serious lisp programmers almost write immutably by default. The
only (common) exception being hash tables, but you just don’t use them if you
need more control.
~~~
_bxg1
> sometimes it is necessary in high performance multi—threaded/multi-processor
> environments to use side effects judiciously
The short answer is: Clojure (and other languages/frameworks that emphasize
immutability) is not intended for those use-cases.
The long answer is, Clojure added something called "transient data structures"
as a trap-door for cases where you really absolutely need mutability for
performance:
[https://clojure.org/reference/transients](https://clojure.org/reference/transients)
But they are really intended to be the exception, not the rule.
Enforced immutability is a conscious choice you make to trade some performance
for increased robustness. Also, compared to "immutability by convention",
enforced immutability allows certain optimizations to be made that greatly
decrease the wasted memory and allocation/deallocation that would occur if you
naively cloned everything.
~~~
abrax3141
I haven’t really thought this through, but at the OS level we used to have the
concept of reentrancy, which separated code from variables for multi-tasking.
I haven’t seen this exact concept in a programming language level, although I
don’t know every language, and it may exist by another name. I didn’t really
think about this until now, but I naturally write reentrantly, separating the
hash tables and globals For cross thread data, and writing everything else
functionally, and/or using the thread system to manage all other mutables as
locals (like the transient construct, I guess).
~~~
_bxg1
I think the idiom in Clojure is for threads to be functional, so they aren't
running persistently and mutating shared state: they spin off to do
nonblocking work and then return their result. While doing so they _share_
memory so as to avoid serialization/cloning overhead, but that shared memory
is an immutable data structure, so you don't really have to worry about race
conditions because threads can't step on each other's toes.
------
Zelphyr
What I want to know is where to find a Clojure and/or ClojureScript job. I got
a taste of Clojure on a project late last year and became enamored with it. So
much so that I would love to find a job where I can use it at least part of
the time.
~~~
emmanueloga_
Try the #jobs channel of
[https://clojurians.slack.com/](https://clojurians.slack.com/)
------
svnpenn
The situation with windows is weird. You have to run a powershell script to
install. They should just offer a Zip or Exe like every other programming
language.
[https://github.com/clojure/tools.deps.alpha/wiki/clj-on-
Wind...](https://github.com/clojure/tools.deps.alpha/wiki/clj-on-Windows)
~~~
iLemming
> The situation with windows is weird.
Isn't it always? Basically anything that's not related to .NET has its warts
in Windows. Erlang for example.
~~~
pjmlp
Delphi, Python, Ruby, C++, Qt, Perl, nodejs, Java, Pharo/Smalltalk, Eiffel,
Common Lisp, Ada do pretty well on Windows, without being .NET related.
~~~
iLemming
Funny, I'm probably getting old, but I do remember times when every single one
of these had issues in Windows. Besides, all of them are much older than
Clojure.
------
zerr
While we are at it - how do you refactor a mid-sized/large Clojure project?
~~~
didibus
So, my first answer is that you shouldn't have too, and if you do, you might
not be writing proper Clojure code.
The most fundamental concept in Clojure, from the famous Rich Hickey talk
Simple Made Easy ([https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-
Easy/](https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/)) is that your
code should strive to be decomplected.
That means that your program should be made of parts that when modified do not
break anything else. This, in turn, means you don't really ever need to
refactor anything major.
In practice, this has held true for most of my code bases.
Now, my second answer, because sometimes there are some small refactors that
may still be needed, or you might deal with a Clojure code base that wasn't
properly decomplected, you would do it the same way you do in any dynamic
language.
The two things that are trickier to refactor in Clojure are removing/renaming
keys on maps/records, and changes to a function signature. For the latter,
just going through the call-sites often suffice. The former doesn't have that
great solutions for now. Unit tests and specs can help catch breakage quickly.
Trying out things in the REPL can as well. I tend to perform a text search of
the key to find everywhere it is used, and refactor those places. That's
normally what worked best for me.
It helps a lot if you write your Clojure code in a way that limits how deep
you pass maps around. Prefer functions which take their input as separate
parameters. Prefer using destructuring without the `:as` directive. Most
importantly, design your logic within itself, and so keep your entities top
level.
~~~
iLemming
> Prefer functions which take their input as separate parameters.
In practice, it's better to avoid positional arguments and extensively use
maps and destructuring. Of course, there's a risk of not properly passing a
key in the map, but in practice that doesn't happen too often. Besides - Spec,
Orchestra, tests and linters help to mitigate that risk.
~~~
didibus
> In practice, it's better to avoid positional arguments and extensively use
> maps and destructuring
We can agree to disagree I guess. In my experience, especially in the context
of refactoring, extensive use of maps as arguments causes quite a lot of
problems. Linters also do nothing for that.
Positional arguments have the benefit of being compile errors if called with
wrong arity. I actually consider extensive use of maps a Clojure anti-pattern
personally. Especially if you go with the style of having all your functions
take a map and return a map. Now, sometimes, this is a great pattern, but one
needs to be careful not to abuse it. Certain use case and scenarios benefit
from this pattern, especially when the usage will be a clear data-flow of
transforms over the map. If done too much though, all over the app, for
everything, and especially when a function takes a map and passes it down the
stack, I think it becomes an anti-pattern.
If you look at Clojure's core APIs for example, you'll see maps as arguments
are only used for options. Performance is another consideration for this.
Doesn't mean you should always go positional, if you have a function taking
too many arguments, or easy to mix up args, you probably want to go with named
parameters instead.
~~~
iLemming
For example if you have something like:
(study [student age] ,,,)
And inside it calls a bunch of auxiliary functions where you pass either
`student` or `age` depending on what those functions do, then someone says:
"oh we need to also add an address", and have address verification in the
midst of that pipeline. And instinctively programmer would add another
positional argument. And to all auxiliary functions that require it. The
problem with the positional arguments - they often lie, they're value depends
on their position, both in the caller and in the callee.
It also makes it difficult to carry the data through functions in between. The
only benefit that positional arguments offer is the wrong arity errors (like
you noted). And yes, passing maps can cause problems, but both Joker and Kondo
can catch those early, and Eastwood does that as well, although it is
painfully slow. With Orchestra and properly Spec'ed functions - the missing or
wrong key would fail even before you save the file. I don't even remember the
last time we had a production bug due to a missing key in a map args.
But of course it all depends on what you're trying to do. I personally use
positional arguments, but I try not to add more that two.
~~~
didibus
That's a bit of a different scenario then I was thinking.
In your case, you're defining a domain entity, and a function which interacts
on it.
Domain entities should definitely be modeled as maps, I agree there, and
probably have an accompanying spec.
That said, still, I feel the function should make it clear what subset of the
entity it actually needs to operate over. That can be a doc-string, though
ideally I'd prefer it is either destructuring and not using the `:as`
directive, or it is exposing a function spec with an input that specifies the
exact keys it's using.
Also, I wouldn't want this function to pass down the entity further. Like if
study needs keys a,b but it then calls pass-exam which also needs c and d.
This gets confusing fast, and hard to refactor. Because now the scope of study
grows ever larger, and you can't easily tell if it needs a student with
key/value c and d to be present or not.
But still, I feel since it's called "study", it feels like a side-effecting
function. And I don't like those operating over domain entities. So I
personally would probably use positional args or named parameters and wouldn't
actually take the entity as input. So if study needs a student-id and an age,
I'd just have it take that as input.
For non side-effecting fns, I'd have them take the entity and return a
modified entity.
That's just my personal preference. I like to limit entity coupling. So things
that don't strictly transform an entity and nothing else I generally don't
have them take the entity as input, but instead specify what values they need
to do whatever else they are doing. This means when I modify the entity, I
have very little code to refactor, since almost nothing depends on the shape
and structure of the entity.
------
abrax3141
If you want fast startup times, just live in emacs, keeping multiple shells
alive underneath. You can build yourself a whole clojure repl that just lives
there all the time (startup once), and a bash or whatever you like as well.
------
gentleman11
Why don’t lisp fans use older lisp implementations like Common Lisp or scheme?
Is it just a lack of libraries and frameworks?
~~~
peatmoss
Some of it is libraries and frameworks. Some of it is the attention Clojure
has paid to ergonomics. A lot of Clojure’s libraries seem to have been built
by smart people for mediocre programmers (like me!). Elsewhere in lisp land it
can feel like smart people wrote libraries for themselves.
For me Racket is probably the closest thing to a decent end-to-end modern lisp
experience with decent libraries outside Clojure. Gerbil Scheme also looks
promising.
For me I’m most often writing smallish standalone apps, which I feel are
easier to make in Racket than Clojure. But between the two languages, I’d
probably take Clojure if I didn’t have the JVM along for the ride. Of course
the JVM is also one of Clojure’s biggest strengths. Also, I don’t trust Oracle
enough to stop pretending that Graal doesn’t exist.
~~~
pron
Aside from being faster, more mature and with better observability, why is
bringing "the JVM along for the ride" different from bringing Racket's runtime
along? Also, you do know that Oracle is behind OpenJDK, has been for ten
years, and has recently made the JDK completely open-source and free of field-
of-use restrictions for the first time in Java's history?
~~~
higerordermap
Off topic; But since you work at Oracle, what is the Oracle copyright terms on
alternative implementations of Java? (in the light of Android lawsuits). Eg:
some research or commercial implementation for a subset of java etc?
~~~
pron
What do you mean by "alternative implementations"? OpenJDK is 100% open
source, and is entirely governed by its open-source license. You can do
whatever you want with -- including take just big or small pieces from it and
change them -- it as long as you comply with the license. If you want to use
the name "Java", your software must pass the TCK.
~~~
higerordermap
No. By alternative implementation I meant eg: some experimental java compiler
to a different target eg: say JS / wasm, or a memory efficient class library
implementation etc..
~~~
pron
The Java spec is not open source. You could either extract as much or as
little from OpenJDK _and comply with its open-source license_ or obtain a spec
license if you don't wish to open-source your implementation. In other words,
you have the open-source route or the closed source route, but the closed-
source route isn't free. (BTW, I am not authorized to speak on behalf of
anyone other than myself, so this is just my opinion).
------
Jeaye
For anyone struggling with dynamic typing in Clojure, thinking it's impossible
to manage and even harder to build confidence in your code, please look at
Spec and Orchestra. You can easily build predicative contracts for all of your
data and know as soon as anything "goes wrong" in terms of your data shapes.
I think everyone using Clojure JVM, ClojureScript, or Clojure CLR should be
doing this.
------
raz32dust
I am not sure I buy into the argument that startup time is the hurdle to
Clojure adoption. If that were the case, we would have at least seen more
adoption for server use cases. Applying Occam's razor, I think Clojure is not
popular for the same reason that common lisp is not popular - it is simply too
hard. Functions and immutability are a more difficult abstraction to grasp
compared to objects and procedures and mutable state. The overhead of finding
quality talent is too high, and likely always will be because of this.
~~~
iLemming
Clojure is not hard. It's just different. People immediately reject anything
that's different. Just like when Fibonacci tried to convince people in 13th
century to use indo-arabian numerals.
I've seen people with no prior programming experience learning Clojure within
a few days. And I've seen senior software developers struggling with it for
months.
------
ertucetin
I think Clojure is going to be a spec for Lisp family in the future.
~~~
TurboHaskal
You probably have only scratched the surface of Lisp if you really think that.
------
pron
Can we please stop using the verb transpile? Compile is fine, thank you.
When it was used only for certain kinds of "shallow" compilation it was bad
enough (and it was really horrible even then), but this article uses it when
describing compilation with whole-program analysis and optimization and
machine code as the target.
~~~
7thaccount
There's absolutely nothing wrong with transpile. Yes compiler covers all sorts
of things (code -> assembly or code -> different language code...etc). However
when I hear "transpile" I immediately think of a language going to another
language like when Nim gets converted to C or JavaScript or when Clojure gets
converted to Java first. It is a specific form of compilation right?
~~~
pron
It is a rather ill-defined form of compilation; i.e., it's not clear _what_
that form is. Compilation means translation from one language to another;
every compiler does that. Transpile was born because people were used to the
fact that the target language of many compilers is machine code, but it's
entirely unnecessary to have a separate word for that, as it doesn't add any
information. There could be a meaningful term for the word, to refer to some
sort of "shallow" compiler, that compiles a source language to a target
language of a similar level of abstraction and preserves the source code
structure in the output, but people often use the word in other cases, too. In
other words, transpile and compile are synonymous, making the newer, hybrid
word redundant.
~~~
7thaccount
I think this is just the way human language generally works being that it is
organic and messy. In my field, there are numerous overlapping and even
contradictory terms.
I like the added distinction "transpiler" provides as I immediately know what
the author means. Or the author could just use the term "compiler" plus
another sentence to describe which kind. Transpiler seems like the more
efficient way to convey the concept.
~~~
pron
There is no "kind" though. "It compiles C to JS" and "it transpiles C to JS"
mean the exact same thing. No added clarification is necessary, because there
is just no distinction between the terms. On the contrary, if people think
that "transpilation" has some distinct meaning, they are just being confused
about what compilation is.
------
lincpa
You need a well-organized linear pipeline system, this is "The Pure Function
Pipeline Data Flow v3.0 with Warehouse / Workshop Model"
~~~
engineeringwoke
I hope you realize that this is complete nonsense to anyone that isn't part of
your new "new" functional programming cult. It has almost no semantic meaning.
~~~
hellofunk
I definitely saw nothing but sarcasm in the comment you are replying to.
But now after looking at their other comments, I see it was not sarcasm.
What an understatement for how messy functional programming can actually be.
~~~
engineeringwoke
I thought he was joking at first too and googled it to find out that he was in
fact serious.
~~~
hellofunk
The quoted part reminds me of the fizzbuzz enterprise edition.
~~~
lincpa
Unfortunately, you treat the quote as a joke, and you have no ability to apply
the quote at all.
~~~
hellofunk
You are making unfair and uninformed assumptions about me, someone you do not
know. I've worked professionally as a full-time Clojure developer for many,
many years.
> you have no ability to apply the quote at all.
You don't know what my abilities are.
~~~
lincpa
show you github or blog, Time is not ability.
~~~
harperlee
Your github is full of text and cloned repos... and you refused my earlier
suggestion of sharing practical examples of your Tao, so it seems strange that
you are so quick to demand proof of competency through code just to discuss
with you.
~~~
lincpa
If I give an example of one aspect of a topic and students cannot understand
other aspects, then I will not repeat the explanation or example.
---- Confucius, a famous Chinese educator
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.
Logic will get you from A to B, imagination will take you everywhere.
---- Albert Einstein
Confucius and Albert Einstein mean the same thing. I have enough examples. If
you still do n’t understand, you are not suitable for learning my theory.
My github is mainly my blog and my project homepage, and other code bases are
just collections of other excellent developer projects.
I think hellofuck is not good, but he is not convinced, so I think he can show
himself with blog or github.
~~~
lincpa
Typographical error:
1.hellofuck -> hellofunk
2.Show you github or blog -> Show your github or blog
Finally, you try to downvote my comments, and it doesn't make any sense, you
should know that everyone's talent is different, just as your talent doesn't
suitable for learning my theory, Or rather, you have no fate with the Tao.
------
lincpa
Clojure is a FP (Lisp) language based on RMDB theory, which is very suitable
for dataflow and data-driven programming, so it is suitable for large-scale
industrialized pipeline software development using Warehouse/Workshop Model
model.
[https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow](https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow)
~~~
harperlee
In the last ~18 months you have been /very/ energetic in promoting your theory
here, I have some alerts since about a year and you are always popping up with
the same link. Looking into your posting and commenting activity, there not
much more.
By now I guess that you have had enough exposure, but most of your comments
and links to github have not sparkled a lot of interest or comment, and
reception has been skeptical / lukewarm.
Take this as just one datapoint but for me your insistent reposting is more
noise than any other thing. If you really care about your theory that is cool
and all, but may I suggest that you create something like some practical
application examples in blog form, edit them thoroughly, and then post them as
new topics, intead of polluting "related" conversations? That way you can
better gauge what interests this community, and what not.
By the way interleaving english and chinese such as in your repo README.md
makes for an unpleasant read - better to separate both in two distinct
documents.
Best luck!
~~~
lincpa
I noticed that you have not posted any useful technical comments in the last
100+ days. Sorry I didn't keep reading.
In fact, this theory has been unprecedentedly hot recently. Star and traffic
on github have risen sharply. On 2020-02-27, it was published by editor on
reddit/devopsish, and other clojure communities.
My theory is written for a few people who understand Chapter 2 of the "Code
Complete" and can read it without reading other chapters, not for people who
cannot understand Chapter 2 and focus on other chapters.
So I have stated in the article: I will not write too many application
examples or patterns. Because people who like to read such articles can't
learn my theory.Because they lack imagination.
```
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.
Logic will get you from A to B, imagination will take you everywhere.
---- Albert Einstein
```
------
zelly
I tried Clojure but ended up hating it for reasons all stemming from its
hosted implementation. Whenever I didn't know how to do something, I (and most
other Clojure users) would go use some JDK class (or worse, an external Java
library) instead of figuring out how to write the Lisp.
For some reason this doesn't often happen with regular Lisp even though CFFI
is available. There's a tendency to just reimplement it directly in Lisp,
which is the more maintainable option.
~~~
simongray
I have to say that I don't really recognise that thing about using JDK
classes. I've worked with Clojure for 2 years on a big government project
(maybe 50 Clojure devs) and it was full-stack Clojure all the way down. We
never used any Java libraries either, but of course basic Java/JS interop is a
pretty normal occurrence in Clojure when doing a certain type of code (like
reading and writing certain binary files to disk, you'd probably reach for the
Java Standard Library). For 99% you need no interop in Clojure. ClojureScript
is a bit different as you often do need to access HTML elements or various
singleton objects like js/window or js/document and have to use JS interop.
~~~
oulu2006
I have to concur with you mate, I've used Clojure now for 6 years in 2
startups and I can almost count on 2 hands the number of times I've had to
interop directly with Java classes to get something to work.
------
yarrel
The dealbreakers with Clojure for me are:
1\. Weirdly irregular syntax.
2\. Java import statements and Java error backtraces anywhere you want to do
real work.
3\. Inexcusable renaming and name collisions on basic Lisp functions.
It's much, much less of a Lisp than Scheme and neither "but it's properly
functional" nor "we fixed the tooling now" make that any less true or the
language any more interesting for the use cases of using a Lisp or targeting
the JVM with a more expressive language.
~~~
akra
I do agree that initial impressions are important for a language and
"perceived" learning curve does make a difference. Things that scare people
away initially do hurt adoption; things like Clojure's syntax and that it is a
dynamic language on the JVM (i.e. how does that affect
interop/performance/etc) all raise questions. Even if there are answers to
these questions and justified reasons just like most sales pitches you've
already lost a lot of people who have doubts and are already productive as
they are.
As an example I remember a presentation done some time ago where the presenter
was showing code in F# and many non-technical people understood the code
thinking it was a pseudo code at first (i.e. business stakeholders/BA
types/etc). That was a win for them. If I showed F# and Clojure code side by
side to an ex-coder manager as an example syntax I'm sure would matter and
they often have a say in this decision. Buy-in is an important criteria in
language selection for sure, as well as current skilled developers. If the
pool of devs is small how easy it is to train people and get people wanting to
be trained in it thinking it may be dead end skill with no jobs? I don't have
that opinion personally but some dev's definitely do. Especially because jobs
in these languages are scarce; if learning curve is small then it could be
used even then.
My cynicism shows marketing and perception of a tech stack are equally if not
more important than other factors in tech selection in many companies. No one
got fired for picking IBM or in this day and age Java?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ABCD study enrollment done, announces opportunities for scientific engagement - myinnerbanjo
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/abcd-study-completes-enrollment-announces-opportunities-scientific-engagement
======
josephagoss
Doesn't everything change the structure of a kids brain? What experiences
would cause the brain not to change at all?
------
PavlovsCat
The headline and the article don't match up at all:
> _The National Institutes of Health announced today that enrollment for the
> Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) Study is now complete and, in
> early 2019, scientists will have access to baseline data from all ABCD Study
> participants._
It's very interesting though, but the title really needs to be changed, so
more people can see this:
> Researchers interested in accessing these data can visit the NIMH Data
> Archive [https://data-archive.nimh.nih.gov/abcd](https://data-
> archive.nimh.nih.gov/abcd) . As findings are published in various journals
> by both ABCD investigators and other scientists, study coordinators will
> continue to post information on the study website
> [https://abcdstudy.org/](https://abcdstudy.org/) at
> [https://abcdstudy.org/scientists-
> publications.html](https://abcdstudy.org/scientists-publications.html)
------
RobLach
In my experience, for the better.
------
geofft
The current title of this submission is "Screen Time Changes Structure of
Kids' Brains, New NIH Study Data Shows." The current link is to
[https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/abcd-study-
com...](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/abcd-study-completes-
enrollment-announces-opportunities-scientific-engagement) . (Related: I wish
there were a log of this.)
The current link has the text, "For example, a recent study by ABCD
investigators showed associations between differing amounts and kinds of
screen time (e.g., video games vs. social media) and different structural
brain characteristics, psychological traits, and cognitive function," linking
to
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105381191...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811918320123)
a paper "Screen media activity and brain structure in youth: Evidence for
diverse structural correlation networks from the ABCD study," whose abstract
ends, "Taken together, these findings support the notion of [screen media
activity] related maturational coupling or structural correlation networks in
the brain and provides evidence that individual differences of these networks
have mixed consequences for psychopathology and cognitive performance." It's
unfortunately an Elsevier paper, but I think my alma mater still gives me
access. Let me see what it says and try to summarize....
OK, I've read the article and it is hard for me to follow concrete
observations and exactly how _much_ change there is (probably because I'm not
an expert in the field and it's also 2 AM here). If I'm reading it right, they
did a "group factor analysis" using R to identify 4 hypothetical variables
with nontrivial correlation between both their screen time survey questions
and the brain measurements from the NIH ABCD study. They believe they found
some correlation between more screen time in general and more "externalizing
behavior," and also some between more gaming and more "fluid intelligence".
More interestingly, they caution, "First, this is a cross-sectional
assessment, which enables establishment of associations but does not allow
drawing causal inferences.Although multivariate methods such as [group factor
analysis] enable differential examination of the impact of [social media
activity] and structural brain characteristics on outcome variables, they
cannot address the 'chicken and egg' question.Therefore, the longitudinal
component of ABCD is essential to begin to delineate causal longitudinal
pathways." (ABCD is a long-term study as these children grow; they did this
paper based on a single snapshot of the data.) They also state, "This
diversity of findings provides an important public health message, i.e. screen
media activity is not simply 'bad for the brain' or 'bad for brain related
functioning'."
So I think this is a real interesting paper, but deserves more study and more
reporting on what's actually happening, and saying that screen time changes
brains (as opposed to, say, kids who want to take their aggression out on
something spend more time on the computer) is prematurely attributing
causality.
------
gammateam
Any conclusions on if this are any beneficial components to this?
~~~
PavlovsCat
Too early to tell, enrollment to the study only just finished.
------
polskibus
Please bring back the original title
------
stefangordon
The relevant link is probably "Evidence for diverse structural correlation
networks from the ABCD study"
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105381191...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811918320123)
But has anyone found the full text of this yet?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google to train 2M Indian Android developers - drdoom
https://thestack.com/world/2016/07/11/google-to-train-2-million-indian-android-developers/
======
alansmitheebk
Seems like that would translate into lower salaries and / or less work for
Android developers in the US and Europe...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How did you learn another spoken language? - ramoz
======
yorwba
The simplest way is to sign up for in-person lessons, do your homework and
keep attending until you are fluent.
In addition or even as an alternative, there are a few things you can study on
your own:
1\. Phonology. Learn the International Phonetic Alphabet and use it to
understand how the pronunciation of your target language differs from your
mother tongue. I like using Wikipedia's help pages of the form
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Any_Language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Any_Language)
for that.
2\. Vocabulary. In the beginning, it's probably most efficient to learn new
words ordered by decreasing frequency. Once you can read simple texts with the
help of a dictionary, learn words you had to look up repeatedly.
3\. Practice. Use a spaced repetition program like Anki (
[https://apps.ankiweb.net/](https://apps.ankiweb.net/) ) and make your own
flashcards. Pre-made decks are unlikely to take you in exactly the direction
you want to go.
3\. Listening. Even before you're able to understand anything, you can get a
feeling for the language by watching subtitled shows. (
[https://www.viki.com/](https://www.viki.com/) has a decent selection in East
Asian languages.) Later you can turn off subtitles (or switch them to the
target language) to avoid overly relying on them.
4\. Reading. Find something you can enjoy and read a little of it every day.
In the beginning, that might just be a single sentence; you'll naturally end
up reading more as your skill improves.
5\. Speaking. This is the hardest to do on your own, and you definitely need a
solid base vocabulary before you can have an intelligent conversation. To
speed up the process, you can try finding a partner who'll be willing to
listen to you babbling as long as you do the same for them. You need to make
sure not to fall back to your mother tongue too easily, though.
6\. Form a habit. If you have some fixed amount of time dedicated to learning
every day, you're not as likely to procrastinate on it.
------
baud147258
I'm an ESL. I started learning English at school, then I started reading
English novels (I remember reading the last Harry Potter book a few months
before it was translated). And then a lot of time spent on the English-
speaking parts of Internet.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The outlook for Bay Area startup space in 2017 - jtbed
https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/10/the-outlook-for-bay-area-startup-space-in-2017/
======
jedberg
I still don't understand why software startups get offices today. I don't see
any value in pissing away half my capital enriching a landlord when there are
perfectly good tools out there to collaborate without making everyone come to
the same place every day.
And it's even better for the environment if we don't make everyone commute.
Can you imagine a world where all the software startups go fully remote and
all that prime office space becomes residential? You'd still need the
restaurants and bars and whatnot, but instead of a bunch of office workers
coming in at noon, you'd have a bunch of neighbors who are all taking a break
from their jobs. It would be glorious.
~~~
ENGNR
I know it's buzzwordy but after using it a bit I'm starting to think VR might
really change this.
Instead of losing all of the signals from in person communication, the
accidental bump into's or a glance causing you to notice someone doing
something relevant to you (or vice versa), you can just walk over to someone
else's space and collaborate with them. If they need a period of focus, they
can disconnect from the group space and have a doorbell, but it would also be
easy to rejoin.
And unlike skype you're not always 'on the call', everyone just happens to be
in the same room and if nobody says anything all day it's ok. More to the
point you could even mute people if it's not relevant.
~~~
mahyarm
Why hasn't it happened with video conferencing then?
I once did an 'always on' google hangout with another guy when I was working
on a software project with him. It was remarkably effective substitute for
being in the same room. Key was it was always on and we could speak to each
other when necessary. Nobody does this although in the companies I have worked
in.
Also many meeting spaces have microphone quality issues, and it can be hard to
hear people in the other meeting room as they have conversations with each
other.
Culturally I think it will be hard to pull off, virtue of video conferencing
not being used in the same way today.
~~~
rubicon33
I've worked remotely at a few companies, some of which were "remote first" and
some of which weren't.
I'm always surprised by the fact that more companies don't adopt the "always
on" google hangout. It's literally in the name of the service, "hangout" yet
people use it like a traditional conferencing tool.
If more people adopted it as a ROOM that you all worked in, I have a feeling
many of the remote nay sayers would at least feel a little bit better about
things.
------
rubicon33
>> "Will SF still be as appealing when the talent can’t afford to be here?"
If you're living responsibly, and saving like you should be, then I'd argue
we're already at a point where talent can't afford to be there.
>> "Transportation is a major factor around where buildings are being built.
It has to be unprecedented with how many more people are coming downtown and
we basically have the same transportation system from 50 years ago, and
similar levels of parking."
Call me cynical, but my faith that this city will, let alone state, will ever
pull their shit together and build public infrastructure, is nonexistent.
~~~
JimboOmega
I wonder what it would take to really kill the golden goose, so to speak - to
really drive away the startups. Every year I hear how place X is the new
startup mecca and it's so much cheaper and has all these advantages, and it
doesn't happen.
Some people would argue it's basically impossible for the city to kill the
industry (if they are even vaguely reasonable); others argue it's already
dead.
I don't know, myself.
~~~
closeparen
I think there'd be overwhelming support among the voters of San Francisco,
Palo Alto, Mountain View, etc. to establish border controls, with "proof of
residency before 19XX" and "proof that you are not employed in tech" as
conditions of entry.
As far as tactics that might survive Supreme Court challenge, I could see SF's
affordable housing program ramping up to 100% of units. The city could then
apply those tests for eligibility in the program, in addition to the income
ceiling it already uses. The city is already a command economy; state
allocation of apartments according to the community's values (i.e. make life
hell for tech workers at all costs) is a natural next step.
Seattle, Portland, Boulder, and New York might just do the same.
I will not be surprised to see the end of freedom of movement in the United
States within my lifetime. The cities that are attracting migration _do not
want more people_. There is widespread support, both among the greedy (who
don't want their views and neighorhood character ruined) and bleeding hearts
(who don't want the urban poor to suffer from gentrification) that
urbanization needs to be stopped.
Maybe someone with a ton of money to spare (Apple?) will start a new city. Or
maybe somewhere which is not so attached to its current state (Detroit?) will
let us in.
~~~
umanwizard
Seattle, Portland, and Boulder maybe, but I absolutely guarantee New York will
never do this.
------
overcast
Spending that much on rent for a starting company, is just completely
ludicrous.
~~~
api
I've said for a long time that if investors insist on only funding Bay Area
companies they should just skip the middleman and cut checks directly to real
estate owners and speculators.
~~~
alarge
To be a little pedantic here, the numbers quoted here are San Francisco
numbers, not "Bay Area" numbers. With just a quick check, I found considerably
cheaper commercial lease rates in Mountain View.
~~~
jtbed
You are totally right. It was heavily focused on SF. there are great options
outside of SF, but all along the Caltrain stops there is really expensive
space because they are more accessible. Castro Street in MV can be very
expensive. It matters a lot where the founding team lives and also where you
want to recruit from and at what scale. there is a ton of talent in SV as well
as East Bay to pull from. Good luck on your startup! thanks so much for your
comment.
------
flippyhead
You could always move to Seattle!
~~~
sharkweek
I'm pretty sure we're headed the same direction up here
~~~
umanwizard
Not even remotely close. I have lived in both Seattle and NYC and the
difference in rent cost between the two places makes you feel like you are in
totally different countries at dramatically different levels of development.
------
anxrn
The article primarily discusses SF, and not the Bay Area. The economics are
likely very different in the South/East Bay.
------
beatpanda
All I want is for everyone who complains on Hacker News about living in San
Francisco or in the Bay Area to be able to live wherever their heart desires
and keep their jobs. I think that would fix everything. Can we all resolve to
make that happen? Please?
~~~
bdcravens
> able to live wherever their heart desires
This may be SF/Bay for those complaining. They feel they "deserve" for it to
be cheaper.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Mathematicians Catch a Pattern by Figuring Out How to Avoid It - otoburb
https://www.quantamagazine.org/mathematicians-catch-a-pattern-by-figuring-out-how-to-avoid-it-20191125/
======
DavidSJ
I was confused by this article. It says that for every k, then all
sufficiently large sets have an arithmetic progression of length k.
But suppose we set k = 3, and take the set {1, 2, 4, 8, ..., 2^n}. Then no
matter how big n is, we have no arithmetic progression of length 3.
Looking into this, it appears that the article misstated the result, called
Szemerédi's theorem: “if the positive integers are partitioned into finitely
many classes, then at least one of these classes contains arbitrarily long
arithmetic progressions”. [https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-new-proof-
of-Szemeré...](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-new-proof-of-
Szemerédi's-theorem-Gowers/3e47e427a64759a41e54dd60c27e5663068886ca)
~~~
mauricioc
The theorem you quoted is Van der Waerden's theorem [0], not Szemerédi's. It
is significantly easier to prove than Szemerédi's result.
The article correctly states Szemerédi's theorem, if you interpret
"sufficiently large" to mean "positive density": For every density delta > 0
and length k, there exists an n0 such that every subset of {1, ..., n} (n >
n0) of density at least delta (that is, at least delta * n elements) contains
an arithmetic progression of length k.
For n large, your set has density roughly (log N)/N (where N = 2^n), which is
not bounded from below by any constant delta > 0; this is why Szemerédi's
theorem does not apply. Speaking of your example, you might be interested in
Behrend's construction [1], a way of constructing "large" sets (for another
definition of large) with no 3-term arithmetic progression.
Szemerédi's theorem easily implies Van der Waerden's theorem because if you
colour the integers with finitely many colours, you can apply Szemerédi's
theorem to the largest colour class.
[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waerden%27s_theorem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waerden%27s_theorem)
[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1078964/pdf/pna...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1078964/pdf/pnas01693-0039.pdf)
------
mikorym
> catch a pattern by figuring how to avoid it
In my own research, the main focus is to take a (usually known) property and
to rephrase it so that the new statement is self-dual. The analogy would be
that you "understand a pattern only if you know how to phrase it in a self-
dual context".
None of these different approaches necessarily try to presuppose or subsume
each other, but they hint towards your outlook and interests. That is why
independent discoveries are usually "clearly" independent, in the sense that
the whole framework is usually different.
This happened for example with Lawvere and the eventual standard definition of
a topos; so too with Grothendieck toposes and the eventual standard definition
of a topos. Newton and Leibniz would be the more accessible example.
------
notelonmusk
Bounds for sets with no polynomial progressions
Abstract:
Let P_1,..., P_m ∈ Z[y] be polynomials with distinct degrees, each having zero
constant term. We show that any subset A of {1,..., N} with no nontrivial
progressions of the form x, x + P_1(y),..., x + P_m(y) has size |A| ≪ N/(log
log N)^(cP1,...,Pm) . Along the way, we prove a general result controlling
weighted counts of polynomial progressions by Gowers norms.
[-1]
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1909.00309.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1909.00309.pdf)
------
kazinator
These observations have a bit of the flavor of the birthday paradox and
pigeonhole principle: if the size of a certain object is at least so and so,
then a certain property is guaranteed. If we have more than 365 people, then a
birthday has to repeat.
Also, the Mean Value Theorem comes to mind for some reason.
~~~
mikorym
The mean value theorem also guarantees existence (of a parallel line tangent).
------
rini17
Did not read the paper but it seems to me bit weird definition: that adding a
constant to geometric progression makes it polynomial progression.
~~~
pure-awesome
When you say "weird definition", do you mean it's a strange concept, or a
strange name for that concept?
Edit: Or do you mean that "polynomial progression" has an existing definition,
and this definition is equivalent, but is a strange way of stating it? Or do
you mean the definition as stated in the article is wrong / differs from the
standard definition?
~~~
Chris2048
Possibly that it doesn't seem to warrant an entirely new name? that "shifted
geometric progression" or something might as well do.
~~~
pure-awesome
See my other response to rini17 for more info.
But yeah, seems to me these "shifted geometric progressions" are actually just
a special case of a more general concept of a "polynomial progression".
------
ksd482
I am a Math student and I am curious about the topics in this article.
I am curious as to what all branches of Mathematics is the paper related to?
It's a result about polynomials, so Algebra and Analysis?
~~~
impendia
This area is usually known as "additive combinatorics".
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_combinatorics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_combinatorics)
~~~
ksd482
Thanks! The Math in that paper is mind boggling! I hope to get to a point to
understand it someday.
Very naive question: the paper uses integrals (perhaps Lebesgue --- can you
tell how naive I am, yet?) for proving some lemmas etc. As a beginner it's
hard for me to understand how integrals come into picture in number theory.
Not that it is my plan to do so, can you tell me what all fields of Math
(specifically textbooks) and techniques I need to be familiar with to
understand the paper?
For e.g., Abstract Algebra (D&F), Functional Analysis (graduate),
Combinatorics etc.?
This will give me a much clearer picture on how various fields of Mathematics
come into play.
Thanks again!
~~~
impendia
If you want to understand Peluse's paper, I think the most directly relevant
background reading would be Tao and Vu's _Additive Combinatorics_.
Dummit and Foote's _Abstract Algebra_ is an excellent book -- even if not very
directly relevant to additive combinatorics. Analysis background would be
useful, such as to be found in Stein and Shakarchi's series. Some introductory
combinatorics would also be good (e.g. Stanley's _Enumerative Combinatorics_ ,
or Van Lint and Wilson).
Finally, analytic number theory would also be good to learn. For example, you
might read Davenport's _Multiplicative Number Theory_. (Especially if you want
to see integrals come into the picture.)
~~~
ksd482
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. This gives me a sense as to
where I stand relative to understanding this paper.
------
nwallin
> Peluse answered that question in a counterintuitive way — by thinking about
> exactly what it would take for a set of numbers not to contain the pattern
> you’re looking for.
Proof by contradiction isn't that counter intuitive.
And it's utterly bizarre that this article doesn't explain that this technique
is proof by contradiction, or give an example of what it is. The proof that
the square root of two can't be expressed as a ratio of integers (hence is
not-ratio-able, or irrational) is approachable by highschool freshmen, and
would add so much to the article.
~~~
willis936
When I was coming up with and solving problems with a math friend I learned
that proof by contradiction was perhaps the most common way to prove things.
It’s strange to people who don’t work with math everyday, to everyone else
it’s secondhand.
~~~
pacaro
It's not just math, it's a pretty basic concept in philosophy, or any area
where critical thinking is required
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google HTML/CSS Style Guide – Omit Optional Tags - franze
https://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.xml?showone=Optional_Tags#Optional_Tags
======
kgtm
Maybe it will make more sense once it fully sinks in, but I think in general
it is a mistake to make developers think about when and where certain things
can be omitted. It's more straightforward to simply do one thing,
consistently, following the "explicit is better than implicit" mantra.
What happened to optimizing for mental overhead instead of file size? This
simply should be a build step, part of your minification and concatenation
dance, not having to consider all of _these_ when trying to decide if I should
close my <p> tag or not:
_A p element 's end tag may be omitted if the p element is immediately
followed by an address, article, aside, blockquote, details, div, dl,
fieldset, figcaption, figure, footer, form, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, header,
hgroup, hr, main, menu, nav, ol, p, pre, section, table, or ul element, or if
there is no more content in the parent element and the parent element is an
HTML element that is not an a, audio, del, ins, map, noscript, or video
element, or an autonomous custom element._
~~~
Arnavion
This reasoning is why I write all the web pages for my personal projects using
XHTML. I can't be bothered to remember which tags are self-closing, which tags
need explicit closing tags which can't be combined into the opening tag, etc.
Everything's consistent in XHTML.
~~~
BurningFrog
You shouldn't have to remember it, but you editor could and should.
~~~
Arnavion
XML validators are much more common in editors than HTML validators, probably
because XML is both easier to parse and used for a lot more than XHTML.
~~~
DonHopkins
I write and edit all my Genshi [1] templates as xhtml, so I can validate and
process them as crisp clean hi-fidelity xml, and then pump them out to
browsers with the html serializer [2].
If I were inclined to follow Google's guidelines on omitting optional tags, it
would be easy to write a stream filter that removed them [3].
But I prefer source templates to have all the explicit properly indented
structure, so they're easier to validate and process with XML tools (and by
eye), and unintentional mistakes don't sneak through as easily.
For the same reason, I also prefer not to write minified JavaScript source
code: that should be done by post-processors, no humans. ;)
[1] [https://genshi.edgewall.org/](https://genshi.edgewall.org/)
[2]
[https://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/ApiDocs/genshi.output](https://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/ApiDocs/genshi.output)
[3]
[https://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/Documentation/streams.html#...](https://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/Documentation/streams.html#serialization)
------
Animats
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~~~
scrollaway
Well, yes, it's hypocritical. But that's from a different team. You don't need
to look further than the styleguide to find contradictions: it's advising to
omit optional tags in order to "save bytes", then it's advising to indent with
spaces instead of tabs.
_shrugs_ should just let minifiers do the job.
~~~
ahochhaus
Google's standard template language (soy / closure-templates) does mininfy
whitespace by default [1]. However, it does not omit optional tags. I think
this is why the style guide is written as it is.
Still, I agree that both types of optimization / minification should be done
by the tooling layer.
[1]
[https://developers.google.com/closure/templates/docs/concept...](https://developers.google.com/closure/templates/docs/concepts#linejoining)
------
tedmiston
Just to put the code sample here...
<!-- Not recommended -->
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>Spending money, spending bytes</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>Sic.</p>
</body>
</html>
<!-- Recommended -->
<!DOCTYPE html>
<title>Saving money, saving bytes</title>
<p>Qed.
Does the <head> tag really not matter anymore?
~~~
Klathmon
I never really thought about it much, but there's no reason it needs to.
There is not really any ambiguity that the head tag solves ever. Script tags
don't act differently in or out of the head tag, and things like <title> are
always going to do the same thing, so having the <head> block is at best a
"comment" to the user that these elements are "head related".
~~~
Sidnicious
One difference: when a script executes in the <head>, the <body> doesn't exist
yet — document.body is null.
A <script src="…" defer> always runs with a body, which is nice in any case
since it keeps scripts together, lets the browser start loading every script
right away, and is explicit about which ones need to run before the body.
Sadly, defer is only allowed for script elements with a src attribute.
~~~
tedmiston
I've been sleeping on best practices here... is it preferred to do a script
with defer in the <head> over putting it at the bottom of the <body> now?
~~~
angry-hacker
Doesn't matter much with defer or async. If you but the at the bottom, they
start loading in parallel slightly later.
~~~
ec109685
Which could be a good thing or bad thing depending on its importance to the
experience.
------
spdustin
The non-normative HTML 5 spec declares those words, ostensibly because <p>
elements cannot contain other block-level elements, and so the user agent
should infer a </p> tag when a block level open tag is seen within a <p>
element.
I've always been of the school of thought that it's a bad practice to depend
on non-obvious behaviors that, when taken in the context of so many other
rules that _are_ explicitly defined, seem like a bug that's been codified into
a de-facto rule.
Granted, <p> elements are _special snowflakes_ in the specification (not seen
as precisely a block element — because it's more limited in allowed content, a
phrasing element, an inline element, etc.), but most online docs refer to it
as a block level element, and in block level elements, you don't omit the
closing tag.
Say what you will about XHTML (such things, I'll add, I'd likely join you in
saying) but at least it had one thing going for it: a well-formed document was
easy to test for. Note, I didn't say valid, I said _well-formed_. For that
reason, I still write HTML as well-formed XML for easy linting, and then a
_tidy_ step later to turn it into plain-vanilla HTML (though, generally
speaking, that last step isn't necessary).
~~~
emn13
It's a real shame HTML5 ever became a thing. We would have been a hell of a
lot better off with a simpler spec - perhaps not xhtml as is, but certainly
one that keeps the simplicity of well-formedness around.
Such a mess nowadays - and it's not just `<p>`, similar special snowflake
rules exist for `<a>` and `<button>` too, and indeed lots of elements have
special quirks that make composability a pain.
------
yladiz
Like many other commenters have said, it makes a lot more sense to have this
in a build step rather than doing by hand -- there's a lot of somewhat
arbitrary rules (see when you can omit a "p" closing tag for example) that can
be explicitly handled during building.
However, what does this really accomplish? Does it really save that much space
and bandwidth? GZIP compresses text extremely well, so I don't see the
usefulness in most cases. Sure, for really slow networks, e.g. in developing
countries, it might matter, but the people that this guideline are targeting
are likely not going to worry about that. Maybe at Google scale it makes a
difference.
Beyond that, it really feels weird to omit the html tag and the head tags and
I'd like to see how much more readable this optional tag omission is when
you're dealing with a complex page with many meta tags and a ton of body
content.
~~~
mbrock
I've been omitting needless tags since HTML5 became a thing and I'm totally
over any residual "weird feelings" from the XHTML days.
------
Pxtl
As somebody who does a lot of xml, I'm weirded out by the idea that the root
tags are optional. I mean, get certain child elements and attributes being
optional, but the parent ones? That's.... hard.
~~~
throwanem
It reminds me, and not favorably, of all the old laziness that made browsers'
DOM parsers such nightmares of special cases upon special cases, and all the
extra effort to deal with that which was so much the norm last decade. Perhaps
this isn't a regression, but it certainly feels like one.
~~~
Sharlin
That's a big part of what HTML 5 is about, to codify existing practice when it
was realized that trying to push strict standards was fighting against
windmills. Nobody would ever push their web pages to the browser as
application/xhtml because the user getting a validation error instead of a
working page due to any slight infraction would have been catastrophically
poor UX. Thus, even "XHTML" pages were sent as text/html and parsed by
browsers as tag soup - pretty much defeating the purpose of XHTML.
Browsers accepting tag soup is just a manifestation of the Robustness
Principle [1]:
"Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept"
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle)
~~~
bonoboTP
But this style guide wants you to be liberal in what you send.
~~~
luchs
Not really liberal - leaving out those tags is perfectly fine according to the
specification and all compliant browsers will create the same DOM from it.
------
the_mitsuhiko
That's the styleguide that Flask and other pallets docs always had for many
years already. People keep opening pull requests to change it and are always
surprised when I point ou that it's not only not wrong but also by the spec.
If you consider how the parser for HTML5 actually works many of the closing
tags you would encounter don't actually add any value _unless_ you have some
trailing text that should be attached to the parent node.
~~~
tedmiston
Do you have a linter or some such automated style guide that you use to
enforce this style?
~~~
the_mitsuhiko
Not really but pretty sure that's the default serialization of html5lib.
~~~
gsnedders
For now. It's likely to change however, as it makes the tree less likely to
round-trip. (html5lib essentially follows what the Writing HTML Documents
section non-normatively states, but this is only actually true provided the
document matches the schema. There are plenty of invalid cases where it causes
it to not round-trip.)
FWIW, there's also some trees which are impossible to serialise in HTML-
without-parse-errors which I don't expect to ever round-trip, though all such
trees also fail to match the schema. A trivial example of this is
`<a><table><a>`, which ends up with an a element as a child of an a element
(and is, far as I'm aware, the only way except for scripting to create such a
tree).
------
niftich
I know that HTML5 deliberately throws out the SGML heritage (to say nothing of
XHTML) and makes all of this valid, but this just _feels_ like another micro-
optimization that Google promotes because at their scale, every little bit
helps.
Besides, isn't this "visual redundancy" (not to be confused with semantic
redundancy) is what compression is supposed to solve, and has been solving
since, effectively forever? So that we can code to reduce our (and the 'view
source'-reader's) cognitive load, and let gzip or brotli or whatever new
scheme work its compressive magic before it squirts our payload across a
newfangled binary HTTP/2 protocol?
~~~
dunham
But the SGML heritage is what makes this valid, and it is common in other SGML
doctypes. (e.g. if you download OFX data from your bank, the closing tags will
be omitted from certain elements.)
Both the optional closing tags for P and the optional opening tags for stuff
like HTML, BODY, TBODY, etc. are present in the HTML 4.0 DTD too. (A TR
element cannot go in a TABLE element, there is an implicit TBODY.) And SGML,
HTML, and optional tags go back to before XML existed.
------
moron4hire
In the grand scheme of things, this feels like throwing the baby out with the
bath-water. The example shows a huge savings in file size, percentage-wise,
because it's an extremely contrived one, being optimized for making sure these
sort of optional things are a large proportion of the total document.
Real documents don't look anything like this example. They have lots of meta
tags and they have footers and they are expected to be read by a wider variety
of user agents than "Google Chrome on Windows" and "Google Chrome on
Android".[0]
Part of the problem is that we treat HTML as a canonical data format, when it
should be a rendered data format. That's not to say that you shouldn't hand-
write HTML for your small site[1], but if you're deploying more pages than can
be managed by hand, then you should be A) use a data format for your content
that is as rich as absolutely possible, and B) statically rendering that data
down to a transmission format.
[0] I shudder to think what screen readers might think of this sort of markup.
I mean, I make VR applications in the browser, but I still make sure the data
is semantic. It's our duty to do so.
[1] AKA "the vast majority of cases". I whole-heartedly believe that new
ventures--before it is known how large they will be--should be hand-written.
~~~
ommunist
[3] Popular web frameworks will suffer.
------
johndoe4589
Interestingly they don't seem to have a rule against one line declarations.
I alwats use this style, which imho is very handy, because of the tree
structure _and_ admittedly because I have a super cool macro in Vim that
copies the characters from the line above, word by word so create rules that
afect children of the rule above it requires just a few keystrokes:
#some-div { margin:1em 0; }
#some-div .inner { padding:5px 10px; }
#some-div .inner p { font-size:90%; }
This makes the structure of the declarations more obvious imho, and I tend to
have a nicely organized series of structures like that that are logically
grouped together.
Obviously this applies more to components/widgets than the basic rules and
layout.
If a declaration is long then I use newlines.. but even then I tend to group
things together eg.
#some-div {
display:inline; margin: ...; padding: ...;
border-radius: ...; border-color: ...;
font-size:90%; text-align:center;
}
Basically within a css rule I'll group together the layout properties, the
text properties, etc.
~~~
ebbv
The first example is fine, if you're only setting one property then doing it
in a single line isn't a big deal.
Your second CSS example is no bueno. Don't put multiple properties on a single
line. It might make sense to you to put display and margin and padding on a
single line but it might not make sense to me. These should all be on separate
lines, it's not worth "saving lines" to make your CSS harder to parse for
someone who doesn't already know that you like to group X, Y and Z properties.
~~~
johndoe4589
Well that is the whole point, I wish I made the example better.
How is it harder to parse? Putting everything in separate lines make the CSS
file 10 times longer, and it's more difficult to see groups of rules that fit
together along with their common structure.
Nowadays unless you edit on a tablet your text editor probably handles 120
columns or more.
But I really can't see the argument for readability. When I navigate a
stylesheet for a website I'm working on, I want to see the larger structure. I
don't need to see clearly the properties within a single rule. I want to see
from top down.
Still, this could be argued forever. Apples and bananas :) I guess it's the
same discussion as space vs tabs, or 2 space vs 4 spaces.
Here's a better example from one project which used YUI2 (it's old, but I
think it shows my point of view, that the dtk-skin-dlg structure is very
obvious along with the hd/bd/ft structure YUI 2 uses and the styles applied to
them, that's the structure I want to see readily when I work in a stylesheet
without having to scroll to understand it's all connected together):
/* dialog body */
.dtk-skin-dlg .yui-panel { outline:none; }
.dtk-skin-dlg .yui-panel .hd { font:16px/1em Verdana, sans-serif; color:#ddd; padding:10px 10px 0; background:none; }
.dtk-skin-dlg .yui-panel .bd { padding:10px 10px 10px; background:none; font-size:12px; line-height:19px; color:#000; }
.dtk-skin-dlg .yui-panel .ft { padding:5px 10px 10px; background:none; font-size:12px; line-height:1.2em; color:#000; }
/* dialog footers, right aligned */
.dtk-skin-dlg .ft-right { clear:both; width:100%; padding:5px 0 0; text-align:right; }
/* left align buttons INSIDE ft-right */
.dtk-skin-dlg .ft-left { float:left; text-align:left; /*padding from ft-right*/ }
/* dialog body wrapper for extra css styling */
.dtk-skin-dlg .body { background:#fff; padding:10px; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 1px 3px rgba(0,0,0,0.2) inset; }
.dtk-mobl-dlg .body { background:#fff; padding:10px; }
~~~
ebbv
> Putting everything in separate lines make the CSS file 10 times longer, and
> it's more difficult to see groups of rules that fit together along with
> their common structure.
You block them together just like we do with code. Good code doesn't put
multiple statements on a line, good CSS doesn't either. File length means
nothing, if someone's looking for a specific class there are tools to do that,
saving a few lines and making the CSS harder to read and edit isn't worth it.
The examples above are much more readable like this (margin added for
illustration of grouping related properties):
.dtk-skin-dlg .yui-panel .hd {
font: 16px/1em Verdana, sans serif;
color: #ddd;
background: none;
padding: 10px 10px 0;
margin: auto;
}
Written that way, when someone finds that rule in the file they can easily
parse the relevant property without having to scan a 200 character long line.
------
jap
I've been omitting optional tags for a while.
One thing I've noticed is that bing webmaster tools will report "The title is
missing in the head section of the page" when there is a title, but no <head>.
Maybe bing can't properly crawl pages without a <head>. Another service I've
used had the same problem, but can't remember which.
So it might be worth being careful with omitting <head> \- and maybe other
tags, I'm reconsidering whether it's a good idea.
------
dubcanada
The only reason you would do this is to save space (ie minify). Out of
everything you have in your entire stack is the 1kb you save by removing the
optional tags really gonna matter? I mean wouldn't it make more sense to spend
time reducing javascript, or css styles, or making your database faster?
I mean if you are Google, yes that 1kb matters a ton. But they've already
optimized to the point where minifying their HTML makes sense.
~~~
progx
Year 2016: 4.5 G Networks rising, Smartphones with 1440P Screens are normal
and many pictures and videos distributed in 4K resolution.
And you really think about minification of html, js, or css to save some
bytes?
~~~
idreyn
Well Google might, if they serve those bytes a trillion times per year.
~~~
progx
google did not serve them (ok from cache), google must read them and process
the content, that cost google time and money.
------
LethargicStud
One thing I don't quite understand is omitting protocol. If you don't know the
protocol, fine it makes sense to omit it. However if you know a resource can
always be loaded via HTTPS (eg from CDN), isn't it safer to force HTTPS?
~~~
superchink
I think you're right.
[http://www.paulirish.com/2010/the-protocol-relative-
url/](http://www.paulirish.com/2010/the-protocol-relative-url/)
This page outlines the original argument, as well as the updated reasoning
that you suggest: always use HTTPS if it is available, even if requesting from
a page served over HTTP.
------
franze
here is an edge case: the <head>-tag might be optional, but HTML elements do
have a different behavior when placed in the <head> section or the <body>
section.
namely, the always beloved <noscript> tag
[https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/HTML/Element/noscr...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/HTML/Element/noscript)
which is a flow content element in the body section
but if used in the <head> it might include links, style and meta-tags and then
it should not be treated as content element.
as the <head> element therefore changes the behavior of its child-elements,
does this make it non optional?
p.s.: i think DOMParser.parseFromString() in Chrome gets this <noscript>
behaviour wrong in some cases (closes the <head>-section as it treats the
<noscript>-tag as content-element, even though it is in the <head> with just
links & style children, so it shoudn't close the <head>...)
~~~
franze
replying to myself like a pro: after reading the spec
[https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html#the-noscript-
el...](https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html#the-noscript-element), the
<noscript> element is even trickier, it has at least 4 parsing modes:
in the head with scripting disabled (no text, only link, style, meta)
in the head, with scripting enabled (can include text (like whitespaces) but
parsed elements must result in link,style,meta DOM only)
in the body with scripting disabled (text, but no other noscript)
in the body with scripting enabled (text, but no other noscript and script
tags)
so basically
<html><noscript><link href="e.css"></noscript><title>hi</title><h1>ho</h1>
would be find, as the <head> would close just before the <h1> (in scripting
enabled and disabled case)
but:
<html><noscript> <link href="e.css"></noscript><title>hi</title><h1>ho</h1>
would close the <head> in a scripting disabled case just before the
<noscript>-tag
and closes the <head> just before the <h1> in a scripting enabled case.
this would explain the DOMParser.parseFromString() behaviour, as it's a
scripting disabled case....
~~~
zcorpan
[http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-
viewer/saved/...](http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-
viewer/saved/4486)
In Chrome Canary 55.0.2866.0 the noscript element contains a text node and a
link element. This matches the spec as far as I can tell; whitespace is
allowed in noscript in head.
------
tangue
Ok, I've juste discovered that in the html5 specification you can omit tags.
I've always been reluctant to push Jade to my coworker but it makes much more
sense now.
~~~
rimantas
This was legal for ages. Why do people think this is HTML5 feature? This
[http://rimantas.com/bits/minimal_html.html](http://rimantas.com/bits/minimal_html.html)
dates back to 2005, but of course it was possible well before that.
------
zwetan
To me this just prove that wether a spec or standard is in place. it does not
really matter.
In this case we have the weight of Google that says "oh it's in the spec so we
can do it".
In other case we have a standard like E4X, that everyone happily not
implemented (Chrome) or removed (Firefox).
They could as well say "If we don't like it we will not do it, if we like it
we will do it", that would be exactly the same.
~~~
TheRealPomax
almost. It would be exactly the same if it was "If we don't like it we will
not do it, if we like it we will do it, and in both cases we set up a w3
working group for writing the formal declaration that this is what we now
agree on".
Welcome to HTML5: a document that comes out of the work of tens of thousands
of people across decades of historically-encumbered practices. It's done
remarkably well, and if you actually read the spec, is way more sensible than
you would think that development track would give us.
------
kazinator
You won't see _this_ in too many C style guides:
_Emit all optional parentheses in expressions, unnecessary "break;"
statements at the end of a switch, the type specifier keyword "int" when
"unsigned" is already present in the declaration and other such fluff._
I've done plenty of web scraping in which it was helpful to look for the
<body> element.
------
sheriffderek
While we're at it, how about we lose the unnecessary uppercase for the
doctype: <!DOCTYPE html> vs. <!doctype html>
Leaving out optional tags makes sense. These days, at least with web-apps,
It's not like we are writing a <head> for every page. It's just a partial you
rarely ever interact with anyway. Either leave them in or take them out. The
only negative I could see is that some people may not know what's
optional–think you're a dummy–and put them back in. Probably best to just
follow the conventions of whatever framework you use. Save your fighting
energy for trailing commas in JSON! :)
~~~
scrollaway
Yes, think about all those bytes we could save by not sending doctype as
uppercase!
In XML, it's required uppercase. Unlike HTML being lax on tag structure, there
is no reason to advise DOCTYPE to be lowercase. It's not "better".
~~~
sheriffderek
I'm not actually fighting for it... or talking about bytes. I care more about
keystrokes. My fingers seem to prefer lowercase. OTHERWISE I can just
SOMETIMES write THINGS in weiRD cASEe FOR no REASON.. but I have to hold shift
or use caps-lock and "I'd prefer not to."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9tAqdd_4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9tAqdd_4Y)
------
keeganjw
However weird it feels, this makes sense. Why did we ever have do things like
use an HTML tag immediately after declaring the DOCTYPE as HTML anyway?
~~~
Sharlin
Well, the HTML tag is older than DOCTYPE. Andin SGML and, later, XML, the
document must contain a single root element.
~~~
gsnedders
The html element's tags have been possible to omit under all SGML-based HTML
standards. This has no bearing on the document having a single root element.
(And the document still does have a single root element in current HTML.)
------
bryanph_
For the love of god, can we please move on to more pressing matters.
~~~
franze
The Google JS Style Guide maybe?
[https://google.github.io/styleguide/javascriptguide.xml](https://google.github.io/styleguide/javascriptguide.xml)
------
parr0t
I'm a part time developer that is still at uni but learning the ways of how
maintaining code is doing in a professional environment.
Just curious, how often are practices like these where the company you work
for gives you a detailed overview of all the coding conventions you should
follow? Is this absolutely expected to be followed strictly when you start any
job as a developer? Is this something a lot of workplaces follow or mainly the
big boys(Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc). If you miss maybe one or two coding
conventions in a huge commit for instance, do you hear about it or does the
reviewer just fix it and you can see what's changed?
Just curious as I'm still new to transitioning into the workplace when it
comes to source control. I work with one other developer (my boss) who wrote
for more or less the entire system himself and there is no such document - I
just have to observe the patterns used and follow suit.
~~~
__derek__
It's unusual to have style guides, in particular as extensive as this, except
at places that have their act together.[1] Where some sort of style is
enforced, though, it's typical to have an automated tool that validates your
code. This can happen locally (as a pre-commit hook), remotely when you push a
branch (as a CI check), or when merging to master (same). If people are going
through and noting style guide violations in a code review, that's generally a
bad sign.[2]
[1]: This is my opinion. Anecdotally, places with style guides tend to have
better engineering cultures.
[2]: Again, opinion. This tends to indicate a weak culture (dictatorial lead
or a lack of awareness/ability when it comes to tools) and can produce a
negative atmosphere (nit-picking isn't fun).
~~~
parr0t
That's really interesting, first I have heard about automated tools to
validate code.
Are there public tools out there you can use prior to commits for this purpose
or are they generally done in-house?
~~~
__derek__
The big one for Git is Overcommit[1]. The tools that it runs depend on the
language, though. Some are community-driven[2], while others are baked into
the language.[3]
[1]:
[https://github.com/brigade/overcommit](https://github.com/brigade/overcommit)
[2]: E.g., flake8 for Python:
[https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flake8](https://pypi.python.org/pypi/flake8)
[3]: E.g., gofmt for Go:
[https://golang.org/cmd/gofmt/](https://golang.org/cmd/gofmt/)
------
sanketsaurav
It looks counter-intuitive, though -- even if it is the spec. Especially for
beginners, who might feel completely out of place. As other people have
pointed out here, it's better to be implemented as a step of the build process
if you really want to save on those bytes. Counter-intuitive patterns are
nightmares for devs.
~~~
mbrock
I don't think it's obviously more counterintuitive than the strict XHTML
insistence on exact explicit hierarchy.
Like, when you start a new paragraph it doesn't become a new "subparagraph",
it just ends the current one and starts a new one. I really don't think it's
hard.
I do think omitting needless stuff creates more compact documents with less
redundant boilerplate that distracts the eyes.
------
nathan_long
This is bad advice for the vast majority of sites. It's like, "morbidly obese?
Lose weight by not licking stamps!"
Omitting `<head></head>` saves 13 bytes, _assuming_ gzip didn't help in the
first place. The average page weighs thousands of bytes, according to
[https://www.sitepoint.com/average-page-weight-increased-
anot...](https://www.sitepoint.com/average-page-weight-increased-
another-16-2015/)).
If your pages are like the average, you've already wasted too much time
thinking about this. Go optimize your images, use less JS, and make 200 other
size optimizations first. You'll probably never get around to this one.
------
innatepirate
In-spec or not, I don't like it
~~~
city41
This should be an optimization step performed by a tool anyway.
~~~
stonogo
It isn't?
I'd have assumed someone with Google's resources would have produced at least
a linter, if not a fmt tool to enforce these rules. Have they not?
------
sootzoo
It's worth pointing out that this style rule itself is optional, which is to
say they're not making a recommendation here, just providing an example of
what applying the rule would look like. It carries the same weight as, say,
the optional rule about grouping CSS sections and including a section
comment[1].
[1]
[https://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.xml?showone...](https://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.xml?showone=Section_Comments#Section_Comments)
------
johndoe4589
[https://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.xml?showone...](https://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.xml?showone=Property_Name_Stops#Property_Name_Stops)
How is adding a space after ":" any more consistent than having none? No space
between property and value is more unique and searchable should you need to
find something or do search/replace.
~~~
detaro
They are not saying that the space is more consistent than having none, just
says that you always should use one style consistently (and that this specific
style guide has chosen to add one space as the thing to do).
------
paradite
I can imagine many html crawlers and parsers breaking for these pages,
searching for <head> or <body> but nothing to be found...
~~~
emn13
Well, it took several decades, but standardized html parsing is now actually
fairly robust. So you may not be wrong, but anything that breaks is probably
heavily outdated and probably not worth much to anybody (because it's parsing
html different from browsers today, and it's not like optional tags are a new
thing...).
I wouldn't get too worried about crawlers and parsers.
------
zbjornson
I'm surprised no one has compared this to omitting semicolons in js. In both
cases it's a rather lengthy list of conditions the writer needs to know about
in order to be absolutely sure you're coding correctly, and in both cases the
benefits are debatable. (The list of conditions when js semis can't be omitted
are obscure at least.)
------
n-gauge
This to me is like:
if (x) { ... ... } someMethod()
Changed to :
if (x) { ... ... someMethod()
It's not as readable. Maybe as others have suggested, leave it to a compiler.
~~~
anjbe
The difference is that your example is ambiguous. “<p>Paragraph 1<p>Paragraph
2” is not ambigous, and never has been.
------
imdsm
Perhaps the option here is to write in explicitly verbose HTML as we do now,
and then as you minify assets, so too do you minify HTML. If the last thing
the output html went through was this reduction, then you wouldn't need to
worry about developer overhead.
------
fresheyeball
The Google HTML Styleguide people, really should inform google.com that they
are bloated.
------
EdSharkey
Here's my page loading pattern, please tell me if this is good:
In the head tag, I intentionally load a small bootstrap javascript bundle
(~50K) non-deferred. This bundle contains a subset of my CSS that styles all
of the static tags the body below will first render with. This bootstrap
bundle also starts an AJAX call for polyfills, if needed, and the main page
script (which also contains the rest of my CSS.)
My goal is to have no unstyled tags in the body as it first renders and to
kickoff loading the main body scripts ASAP before any other 3rd party scripts
have a chance to get started loading.
------
kalleboo
Web technologies are totally not piles of hacks on top of other hacks
------
masswerk
Slightly amusing:
HTML4, XHTML: Make sure to include all optional tags, because scannability.
Now: For (...) scannability purposes, consider omitting optional tags.
~~~
anjbe
HTML 4 didn’t require optional tags either. That culture was limited to XHTML.
------
isaac739
Google's parent company is still using <head> and <body> tags.
[https://abc.xyz](https://abc.xyz)
------
huntermeyer
This is really going to bother me:
Use double ("") rather than single quotation marks ('') around attribute values
------
SZJX
With so many exceptions and corner cases, doesn't it goes exactly against the
aim of a code standard, that is to make the code rigorous and less prone to
errors? The prevention of weird behaviors and corner cases is exactly the
reason why almost all Javascript styleguides recommend semicolons.
------
hooph00p
I can get behind this.
~~~
joekrie
This blows my mind. Can't wait to bring this up in a code review.
------
dom96
Hrm, is anybody else's browser not navigating to the "Optional Tags" anchor?
~~~
Spone
Yes. Firefox on Android
~~~
dom96
Firefox on macOS here.
------
chriscareycode
A good video from Paul Irish on the subject
[http://www.paulirish.com/2011/primitives-
html5-video/](http://www.paulirish.com/2011/primitives-html5-video/)
------
PaulHoule
Is solid html 5. Html 5 fills all the ambiguous parts of the code to DOM
translation so you should give up on regexes, handlebars and such and instead
run it through JSoup (or equivalent) and just work on the parse tree.
------
ben_jones
Honest question: Why doesn't everyone use Jade markup if you already have a
build step for your front-end code? It's much faster to write and much clearer
to read.
------
SimeVidas
Websites are bloated with excessive amounts of JavaScript and non-optimized
images, and _this_ is what’s on top of Hacker News? Frickin’ optional tags?
_facepalm_
------
z3t4
cant read the article because my browser thinks its a rss feed. But i want to
stress the importance of semantics and clean html. Think alternative output
devices like html to speach and future tech like direct to brain io and
artificial intelligence. Also if u keep it simple, writing and editing also
becoms easier and more available. dont mangle or minify your html. Also keep
style out of it (in css).
------
aclsid
This all good and nice for Google saving a few bytes, but how on earth are you
supposed to specify page language with this scheme for instance.
------
ilaksh
Very cool. I did not know that stuff was optional.
If its less code to type and send over the network then that's great. HTML 5
is not XML. Which is fine.
------
reimertz
scripts in <head> tag works perfectly as well as long as you position scripts
above elements you would put in the <body> . I will start doing this!
demo:
[http://jsbin.com/duqonahiyi/1/edit?html,console,output](http://jsbin.com/duqonahiyi/1/edit?html,console,output)
~~~
nchelluri
Yes, but some places tell you not to do scripts there when possible and load
them instead at the bottom of the page because the page loading pauses while
the script is downloaded (if not inline) and executed. See
[https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/BlockingJS](https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/BlockingJS)
~~~
reimertz
yep, so just position the script at the bottom then. :)
~~~
mbrock
It depends on whether you want to run the script before or after the body!
~~~
reimertz
exactly, that is what I am saying.
------
phil248
Hell, I'mm still convincing people to use <br> instead of <br/>!
------
ishener
what's this style guide even mean when google.com doesn't adhere to it?
------
simple10
Here's the direct github link if you want to fork or star:
[https://github.com/google/styleguide/blob/gh-
pages/htmlcssgu...](https://github.com/google/styleguide/blob/gh-
pages/htmlcssguide.xml)
------
snarfy
>Indentation
>Indent by 2 spaces at a time.
>Don’t use tabs or mix tabs and spaces for indentation.
Let the wars begin.
------
original_idea
This is going to wreck havoc on XPATH selectors across the world.
~~~
mbrock
XPath can't run on HTML5, you have to parse it into DOM first, so there's no
problem.
~~~
j4_james
HTML5 does actually support an XHTML serialisation[1] if you need your content
to be easily parsed with XML tools.
[1] [https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-xhtml-
syntax.html](https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-xhtml-syntax.html)
~~~
mbrock
Ah, yeah, indeed, thanks for the clarification.
------
themartorana
Grammar nerd, apologies, but "Google's" with an apostrophe (unless I'm
_totally_ missing something). There should maybe be a better way to report
this kind of stuff without cluttering the comment stream.
------
danjoc
Why doesn't Google produce an html formatter instead of a style guide, like
gofmt for html? Applying style guidelines correctly and consistently is much
easier to do in software than meatware.
~~~
h1d
I thought we already got haml, jade, sass, stylus etc... Many points become
moot using these.
~~~
CoryG89
Things like Jade do not make this advice moot. You can still apply this advice
after transpile step.
~~~
h1d
I didn't say every advice becomes moot with them. Besides, shouldn't
transpilers do the process then wherever possible instead of manually... which
would be, not our job.
------
andrewclunn
This just feels wrong. It's like only using one space after a sentence.
Somewhere along the way it became technically correct, but there's just this
visceral feeling that it's not right.
------
ClayFerguson
Omitting tags that 'unbalance' a document or stop it from being valid XML is a
very dumb thing to do, even if it shaves a fraction of a millisecond off load
time. We're talking about a few bytes of transfer here. Come on Google, you
should have better judgement than that.
------
draw_down
Not the first time I've seen this suggestion but I just don't understand it.
Removing <head>, omitting quotes in attribute values... why? File size,
really?!
------
ommunist
I hope Google will not punish websites by downranking those of us who still
uses head tag. After all, why not take the bold move and tell everyone that
<pre> is enough, so the whole html monstrosity could be deprecated and Google
could save millions in serving his afs to asketic plain text websites,
designed in the mood of the Berkshire Hathaway web presense.
------
Kenji
Uhh... I wonder how large the percentage of users is that see a broken site if
you strictly adhere to that principle.
~~~
TheRealPomax
A conservative guess would be "about 100%", since every browser (even the
shitty ones built over the weekend these days) rely on HTML5-compliant DOM
parsers.
Since this code follows the official HTML5 spec to the letter (optional
_means_ optional - a parser will do the same whether an optional thing is
written our or left off), HTML5-compliant parsers just see "correct data" and
convert it into the only DOM it can be turned into.
~~~
Kenji
I think you mean "about 0%" see a broken site in response to my comment.
Anyway, I get your point.
However, I am a big fan of the robustness principle: Be conservative in what
you do, be liberal in what you accept from others.
So for me personally, the issue is clear-cut. I will keep my codebase as clean
as possible/affordable, be it HTML or C++, not relying on quirks that have
been introduced to tolerate faults of careless designers and programmers.
------
mozumder
The rules are really complicated here. It's best to do this using a minifier
instead of through hand-coding.
~~~
TheRealPomax
Sounds like a case of mistaking "a thing" for "the only thing": yes, of course
this is a thing you make your build tasks take care of, but then you _also_
make sure that any HTML code that is still coded by hand code (because why
would you even still have that anywhere, in real projects these days?) follows
your project/club/company/organization/whatever's style guide.
------
ebbv
Boo. Maybe it's over the top but for me the fact that something this awful
made it into Google's official style guide tells me the nuts are really
running the asylum over there. Was nobody in charge doing web development in
the 90s or even the early 2000s? Has nobody there ever been put in charge of a
legacy site that was written this way? There's a reason we all agreed to stick
to standards and make our HTML verbose in the mid-2000s.
~~~
detaro
What they recommend conforms to standards and should parse identically in all
HTML5 parsers.
~~~
ebbv
Oh my god talk about nitpicking. Yes I realize it's allowed, it's still sloppy
and gross.
Technically I could put all my HTML into base64 encoded strings in javascript
and then write them to the document, that doesn't mean that I should.
~~~
detaro
Sorry, I seem to have misinterpreted the background of your initial comment
(less human aspect, more browser parsing issues).
It's certainly something you should either do automatically or in a consistent
style, not as an excuse to leave out random things if you feel like it.
------
mschuster91
It's a screenscraping protection, too.
Documents malformed this way cannot be parsed e.g. with PHP's DOM functions
without significant headache.
~~~
TheRealPomax
You seem to misunderstand what's going on here. HTML5 explicitly lists which
tags are optional in what context, and the document style presented in the
link takes that fact and recommends thus removing any optional tag to save
data over the wire. There is nothing "malformed" about this, this is literally
doing what the spec says is explicitly valid. Any proper HTML5 parser
regardless, of which language its written in or for, should be able to parse
HTML5 with optional tags omitted perfectly fine.
If PHP's DOM functions don't work for it, then PHP's DOM functions aren't
HTML5 spec compliant, and that should be filed as issues against PHP and fixed
by its developers.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Amazon Instant Video on Xbox 360 - joshstrange
http://amazon.com/gp/video/ontv/xbox
======
mrsteveman1
I have an Xbox 360, I actually like it a lot.
All these nice capabilities are available now on the Xbox, Twitter, Facebook,
Netflix, Amazon Instant, Hulu, etc. Even some cable companies are offering the
use of the Xbox as an IPTV device for their own service, including Comcast
last I checked.
Naturally you have to pay for each of those separately, for those that require
a fee. No big deal, they're already separate services that just happen to
_work_ on the Xbox, just like some of them work on my Roku, or my Apple TV, my
iPhone, my iPad, or any number of other platforms.
However Microsoft appears to be the only company charging _me_ , the owner of
the box I bought from them, and the user of those other services I already pay
for, for the ability to use them on their platform.
All those things stop working, even Twitter and Facebook, if you quit paying
for Live Gold, and that's actually the primary motivation for a lot of people
to pay for it month after month, because stuff stops working on the box if you
don't, stuff that Microsoft isn't even in charge of running, stuff that you're
already paying for.
self.rant = OFF;
------
ChrisLTD
This is excellent news. Now the only thing that keeps me from using the Xbox
(rather than the Roku or Apple TV) to stream movies & TV is the loud fans...
~~~
Feoh
Have you seen the Xbox 360 Slim? Its fan is nearly silent. MUCH better than
the original. Also, the power supply is much quieter as well.
~~~
ChrisLTD
I've never been in a place where I could compare the fan. Sounds like a great
improvement!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
White House calls for cell phone 'unlocking' - anigbrowl
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323494504578340623936989386.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories#articleTabs%3Darticle
======
anigbrowl
The WSJ story just summarizes the outcome of the recent petition, but the
comments thereon are hilarious/depressing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Goldman and Pritzker Sank Millions into a Startup Before Suing It for Fraud - jamix
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-goldman-and-pritzker-sank-millions-into-a-startup-before-suing-it-for-fraud-1516881601
======
jamix
> With guaranteed upside, investors agreed to earmark $225 million—nearly half
> of the equity investment—to pay the founders a dividend, according to the
> lawsuit.
Mind-blowing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: ProtectedText.com - The safest site on the web for storing your text - mojuser
http://www.protectedtext.com/#a
======
bowerbird
this'll be useful for people who do not have their own site, where they can
put files in a password-protected directory.
-bowerbird
------
vadvi
this is pretty cool! is there a length limit?
~~~
mojuser
no, tested and work up to 250 000 chars :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why It’s OK to Block Ads - __Joker
http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2015/10/why-its-ok-to-block-ads/
======
makecheck
I think that the ability to filter out content is a basic right that should be
_built-in_ to any Internet application, not forced to be an "add-on" and
vilified by being seen as synonymous with attacks on the advertising industry
and content providers.
And since regexes on URLs would be complicated and error-prone for most
people, I think the onus is on content providers to throttle _themselves_ ,
baked right into a user-agent protocol.
For example, the USER should be able to cage the _provider_ with certain
limitations that must be met in order for content to be displayed:
\- "I am granting you no more than 500K of my data plan. Please send me a
version of your page that meets these requirements."
\- "I am granting you no more than 1% of my battery per week. If your site
exceeds these requirements, your site will feature prominently as the cause of
battery problems in a report that is periodically presented to your users."
\- "I do not consider this site to be an 'application' so I have restricted
several dynamic behaviors. Please send me a version of your page that can
operate in a quarantined scripting environment."
And of course, browsers would be expected to provide sane defaults for these
settings.
This approach isn't particularly hostile to any one industry; it doesn't
specifically block ads (if they fit in that 500K, be my guest).
------
snogglethorpe
In the end, it seems kind of irrelevant. Whether ad-blocking is "OK" or "not
OK" certainly accounts for a lot of the arguing, but it probably won't play a
huge part in determining whether people use ad-blockers or not.
I think the general public _can_ be swayed by ethical arguments, but the
threshold is pretty high, and an appeal to the financial well-being of
companies almost certainly doesn't make the cut.
[Note that despite the _enormous_ amount of money and effort that has been
spent in an attempt to demonize copying of music/movies, the public still
doesn't care a whit about those arguments, and copying is still generally
considered a perfectly reasonable thing to do as long as you don't get
caught.]
~~~
stegosaurus
I tend to think that people underestimate the cognitive load that would be
imposed as a result of dealing with the world in such a 'rational' way, and
that's why we don't see it.
Permit the use of an analogy.
I've been poor. When you're poor, you agonize over every financial decision.
At least, I did. You walk through a supermarket trying to buy the absolute
cheapest variety of protein. Maybe you go to another supermarket and see if
you can get it cheaper. Do you get the bus to see a friend? It'd be a lot
better to stash that five quid away for some inevitable future expense.
It's paralyzing. You spend so much time playing this little game for every
minor thing that others may well take for granted that you hardly get anything
done if you're not careful.
Having battled my way through that.. it seems as if there's a whole new level,
a new stage, called 'ethics', that people seem to be taking to an extreme
extent in some areas.
I choose my battles; there are a few things I do personally that most don't,
to 'save the world'. But for me to deeply care about the full externalities of
everything I do (and seek out alternatives) is simply untenable. There's too
much out there.
Blocking ads is so far along the spectrum of 'things I might do that might be
bad' that it doesn't even register.
Similarly I'm not going to think about the carbon impact of every foodstuff I
buy. I'm not going to agonize over taking the bus.
I just do things, to get on with my life. It's really probably not all that
bad; sometimes I wonder where people get the energy, the wherewithal, from, to
inject so much drama into seemingly minor problems.
I block ads; I don't block ads; the internet exists; the content might change;
it really doesn't matter. The world continues to spin. We didn't even have
this 'Internet', a few short decades ago. We may not even have it soon. Enjoy
it; revel in it!
edit: to elucidate further...
If I have a particular issue that I really care about; say it's animal
welfare. It benefits my cause; it benefits me directly; if I (mostly) single-
track in order to deal with it.
Maybe I care about global warming, but maybe it's easier for me to make the
Vegan Festival if I take the car.
That really is it, I think. People fixate on the activity itself (ad blocking)
and don't look at the general framework of the life it fits within. Too...
extreme.
------
teaneedz
The insidious tentacles of ad tech touch every corner of today's economy.
There are so many players (legal and criminal), varied interests and wealth
involved, that it's difficult to imagine that enough users will ever embrace
ad blocking on the scale that's required to achieve the change that this
article suggests is needed.
The Interactive Advertising Bureau (IAB) is finally acknowledging a need for
some change with LEAN
([http://www.iab.com/news/lean/](http://www.iab.com/news/lean/)), but I doubt
it's interests really favor users. It's vested in advertising and grabbing our
attention.
We're not dealing with just one bad player, like Flash that's easier to kill
and yet took way too long to do it. It's still not completely dead either.
Ad blocking is a moral obligation and just a basic tool for cybersecurity
these days.
Good UX will win at the end of the day, but it's going to require a lot of
effort.
------
DanBC
I'm tolerant of ads. I recognise the argument that in order to provide me
content people usually need some kind of payment, and ads are currently that
payment.
But ads are so hostile, and are everywhere, and result in really unpleasant
behaviour (spamming; slurping as much data and not keeping it safe; etc).
I recently got a machine with Windows 8.1 with Bing, and ads are baked into
whatever the start menu is called now. It's WEIRD seeing click bait ("18
bizarre home remedies that really work") on that panel page.
So I love this article, and I'm probably going to move to ad-blocking (and
different OS) soon.
------
rebekah-aimee
One could argue that the text or simple image ads are not a moral sinkhole
like the article suggests. A lot of the text ads, I've found, are just the
people who would normally rely on word of keyboard, except they're trying to
get their first hundred users or whatever. Sometimes I would be part of their
initial user base because what they're selling would genuinely make my life
easier/better. That's not wrong.
The big, flashy ads (you know, the ones that are animated, or play sound or
video, or do something dumb if you mouse over them for 1/4 second) are
generally purchased by makers of lesser products in order to manipulate users
into choosing them, because they can't rely on the quality of their products
to advertise for them. I don't feel bad about blocking them.
So, I don't think unobtrusive ads are so bad. The trick is figuring out how to
let them through. I turn off AdBlock on certain smaller sites with less
obnoxious advertising and find that sometimes the bar is set too high for
what's considered unobtrusive; the ads would theoretically be acceptable under
the AdBlock description of what's unobtrusive, but get blocked anyway somehow.
As the market improves, advertising may gradually go away. That first clause
is kind of difficult though.
The other question is how we can support people making content like blog posts
and so on... without limiting the people who actually can't pay for stuff like
that (kids with no jobs, etc). It's the same question as the one faced by
music and software producers. When you can find an answer to that, well...
~~~
NoGravitas
I think one point the article makes that is easier to miss is that the ads
themselves are not that important. Text/simple image/flashing video/smell
doesn't really matter that much. Ads are ads. The real problem is how ad-
dependence deforms content. Clickbait being the most blatant example.
------
devopsproject
An infected ad killed my computer several years back. I block all ads
everywhere for everyone I know.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bringing cron workflows to distributed systems - dwhitena
https://medium.com/pachyderm-data/pachyderm-1-6-periodic-job-execution-access-control-advanced-statistics-extended-ui-and-more-f3a975867300
======
detaro
Please use the original title when submitting something to HN.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Taming Callback Pyramids in AnuglarJS App Using Async/Await - prabhatjha
https://engineering.wootric.com/taming-callback-pyramids-in-our-angularjs-app-using-async/await
======
sharkenstein
Are there any performance penalizations because of this? The code for the
state machine looks very complex and I'm curious about what's the difference
in terms of performance between the pyramid model or the flat model.
~~~
hachibu
Author here. Yes, there is a trade-off. The resulting code is much bigger than
the original code because of this transformation. But, I think the trade-off
is worth it because it makes the code simpler to read, write and maintain. As
far as speed, I don't have any benchmarks but I don't think there is speed
penalty. It's mainly an issue of code size.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Make a Pseudoscope (2005) - mattbierner
https://pseudoscope.blogspot.com
======
dandare
I was always wondering, why don't we have periscope windows?
What I imagine is a "light intake" on a roof, from which the light is
concentrated into a straight long NARROW tube that takes it to an underground
flat where the light is dispersed into a fake window.
Is such design not possible mathematically or just very expensive?
Maybe it could use Fresnel lenses to save on cost and weight. That way we
would not get a clear picture of the outside world but at least lot of natural
daylight.
~~~
jw1224
I live in a 3-storey apartment building, and one of my neighbours downstairs
actually has this. It's actually a bit of a sneaky marketing "hack" by the
architects.
When the building was being designed a couple of years ago, they put a light
tunnel in place running down the vertical length of one side of the building.
This took light from the penthouse's roof and channeled it down to the ground
floor.
By doing this, the architects could turn a 2-bedroom apartment into a
3-bedroom one. By law (at least in the UK), you cannot market a room as a
bedroom unless it has natural light coming in. As my neighbour's apartment was
surrounded on two sides by adjoining walls, this meant a room mid-way through
the length of the building (and otherwise devoid of natural light) could be
considered a bedroom, and marketed as such.
~~~
Spare_account
> It's actually a bit of a sneaky marketing "hack" by the architects.
> By doing this, the architects could turn a 2-bedroom apartment into a
> 3-bedroom one. By law (at least in the UK), you cannot market a room as a
> bedroom unless it has natural light coming in.
This doesn't sound right to me, so I checked and the best I can come up with
is this, from the building regulations:
[https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects...](https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/5/basements/2)
There is reference to fire escape/egress and to ventilation but nothing about
natural light. I don't think there is any requirement to have natural light
for a room to be defined as a bedroom.
The subject of what a bedroom actually is appears to be somewhat murky. The
Building Regulations use terms like "habitable space" for most rooms within a
house which I assume allows for the fact that one persons front
room/lounge/living room might be another persons ground floor bedroom/granny
annex/lodger's bedsit. There are some specific cases such as kitchens and
bathrooms that don't tend to be as ambiguous, but I don't think there is a
regulation that backs up your statement "By law (at least in the UK), you
cannot market a room as a bedroom unless it has natural light coming in."
[http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/what-is-a-
bedroom/](http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/what-is-a-bedroom/)
~~~
hrktb
I don't know for the UK, but there is a similar limitation in Japan. An
habitation room must have a window, which meant our house was a 2 bedroom + 1
utility room, and not 3 bedrooms.
I don't have the source of the requirement, just that it was specified in the
contract, and we got an explanation as to why the third room was not deemed
fit for habitation.
~~~
blincoln
My understanding is that it's because of what the GP cited - there needs to be
an alternate way to escape the room in the event of a fire/flood/etc.
A friend of a friend drowned because they were asleep in a "bedroom" which was
a room in a lower level without a window.
------
baddox
I achieved a presumably similar effect several years ago by viewing my 3D TV
(remember those?) with the 3D glasses on upside down. It is definitely very
strange having “near” and “far” effectively reversed, yet with all the other
depth cues in place.
~~~
taneq
A more comfortable way to achieve this is just set the 3D mode to the wrong
setting (eg. R|L side-by-side instead of L|R, or under/over instead of
over/under). Agreed that it's a really weird feeling, almost like having
something brushing your face.
(Also, it makes me sad that 3D is no longer a feature of new TVs. I guess I'm
just going to have to hold onto the one we've got - _I_ like watching 3D
movies even if no-one else in the house does!)
------
mattbierner
> A pseudoscope is an optical instrument made with two prisms. As seen in the
> drawing, the mirrors reverse the image in each eye causing some items viewed
> through it to look quite unusual: convex objects become concave, things
> pointing towards you may look like they are pointing away and vice versa.
— [https://pseudoscope.blogspot.com/2005/06/pseudoscope-is-
opti...](https://pseudoscope.blogspot.com/2005/06/pseudoscope-is-optical-
instrument-made.html)
~~~
mannykannot
If I am not mistaken, this homemade pseudoscope works on a slightly different
principle - it switches the perspective from which each eye sees the object,
without any left-right reversal. The two-prism device appears to preserve the
perspective of each eye but does a left-right reversal of the images on each
retina (I confirmed the non- left-right reversal in the mirror case with a
pair of hand-held mirrors.)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscope#/media/File:Pseudo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscope#/media/File:Pseudoscope_prism.png)
------
scentoni
What's the name of an optical device like this that merely magnifies the
stereo separation without crossing the images? I see examples of photographs
taken this way but not real-time viewing instruments
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_photography_techniques#...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_photography_techniques#Longer_base_line_for_distant_objects_–_"Hyper_Stereo")
~~~
jloughry
Look at old battleship rangefinders. Some of them had 8 or 9 metre baselines.
See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence_rangefinder#Stereo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence_rangefinder#Stereoscopic_rangefinders)
------
Tepix
Has someone built a virtual pseudoscope for virtual reality goggles such as
Oculus Go?
------
TuringTest
This illusion should be relatively easy to implement as a scene in VR.
------
app4soft
Title should be:
Make a Pseudoscope (2005)
~~~
vermilingua
I mean, does knowing it was written in 2005 change how you read it? Titles
only really need years if the context is important, and AFAIK the physics of
prisms haven't changed all that much in 13 years.
~~~
tomhoward
It also helps readers to know if they've read the article before.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Analysis of a Kubernetes Hack - jc_sec
https://medium.com/handy-tech/analysis-of-a-kubernetes-hack-backdooring-through-kubelet-823be5c3d67c
======
terom
kubeadm seems to configure the kubelet with `--authorization-mode=Webhook`,
which prevents the use of the exec API by unauthenticated users:
$ curl -vk -X POST https://...:10250/exec/test
...
< HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden
...
Forbidden (user=system:anonymous, verb=create, resource=nodes, subresource=proxy)
OTOH some endpoints on the `--read-only-port=10255` API are completely open
for unauthenticated requests... that leaks all the pod metadata/spec/status
information:
$ curl http://...:10255/pods
{"kind":"PodList","apiVersion":"v1","metadata":{},"items":[{"metadata":{"name":"kube-proxy-knfqg","generateName":"kube-proxy-","namespace":"kube-system", ...}
Not what I expected, and the `--authorization-mode=AlwaysAllow` default seems
like a very bad idea :/
------
alpb
I'm trying to understand what the issue here was. Did they publicly expose the
kubelet port on the internet?
~~~
jc_sec
Yep. The kubelet ports were exposed. From the article:
As it turns out, our coworker’s server was also publicly exposing the kubelet
ports (tcp 10250, tcp 10255). Although the problem here was obvious, it should
raise some questions about your own Kubernetes deployment, as it did for us.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to get into Data Science as a hobby? - jxm262
I've been programming for about 4 years now (full-stack web) and had a couple previous years doing Database related work (PLSQL, Oracle apps).<p>After taking a few coursera classes on the subject I'm don't know where to turn now. I had a few classes in college which touched on this (data mining, stats, etc.) but never had any real world projects.<p>I'm curious..<p>1. Where can I find side projects to work on which I could apply my beginner knowledge of the field. (end goal to learn more with practical work)<p>2. How can I use my background in web development to help advance in this field?<p>Any advice is appreciated
======
beamatronic
Data is all around you. Find a data set about a subject that you are
passionate about. I mean passionate in the sense that you have BURNING
questions about it. Let's say you are into movies. You can find data sets of
movies. I would pose these queries to you as exercises:
1\. What is the average length of all movies?
2\. Here are some buckets: Movies that are under one hour, movies that are
between 1 and three hours, and movies that are three hours or longer. Tell me
how many movies are in each bucket.
3\. I want to know if movies are getting longer or shorter over time. Find out
and show me a graph.
edit: formatting
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What are words that you cannot spell without a spell checker? - tenpoundhammer
======
tenpoundhammer
Seperate and reccommendation (spelled wrong for context) are the ones I get
wrong the most.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
OLPC's a con - former insider - edw519
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/16/krstic_olpc/
======
mechanical_fish
_"I’ve thought for a while that sending laptops to developing countries is
simply the 21st century equivalent of sending bibles to the colonies," adds
Python language author Guido van Rossum in the comments._
There may be something to what Guido says.
That said, I don't think the OLPC project was necessarily a bad project.
Because the whole thing was open source, folks are now free to part the
project out: borrow the bits that seemed to work well, redesign other bits,
and throw out the rest. That's the best you can expect from most academic
research projects.
I'm not surprised to see that OLPC didn't last that long, and that the
endpoint is a big explosion. That's the problem with these semi-academic semi-
charitable semi-engineering semi-commercial projects: It's hard to have a
child with four parents. There's a tendency for the whole thing to devolve
into a tooth-and-nails custody fight.
~~~
serhei
And let's not forget that they essentially created the tiny, cheap laptop
market. People like ASUS and Intel were _scared_ of them. If the entire
project has turned out to be "a con" and jack shit has ended up being done for
children, you have to admit that in that case they've at least pulled the most
successful bluff in the computer industry, perhaps ever.
And I still think that some of the ideas in the Sugar interface - like the
Journal, and the pervasive collaboration - are potentially revolutionary.
(They "just" lacked the necessary execution.)
~~~
mechanical_fish
Two things I forgot to say:
1) As a former academic, I suspect that _everyone_ who spends long enough in
academia goes through phases of frustration where it all seems like "an
enormous con". (In industry, of course, you learn that it's all an enormous
con in your first week. ;)
2) _they essentially created the tiny, cheap laptop market._
Exactly. And that helps children worldwide as much or more as the actual OLPC
does.
It can be ugly to watch the R&D sausage being made. Its indirect approach is
not for everyone. Every R&D project has a stated goal of "taking over the
world" or "curing this disease" or "ending poverty" or something, and almost
none of them ever explicitly reaches such a goal. And yet often those "failed
projects" publish stuff that gets picked up by the next generation of projects
and refined into something good. Or the students who worked on the "failed"
project take their experience into industry where they apply it to a real
product that actually succeeds.
~~~
edw519
"(In industry, of course, you learn that it's all an enormous con in your
first week. ;)"
I sure hope that was partially tongue in cheek, because if it wasn't, I kinda
feel sorry for you.
Many places I have worked have been total jokes and many people I have had the
misfortune to work with, let's just say, "misbehaved".
But for each of those places, I found many good businesses where people got
out of bed eager to do good things every day. They have produced value for
others and have much to be proud of. (These are also the ones who I seek as
customers.)
~~~
mechanical_fish
Oh, it's more than just _partially_ tongue-in-cheek! I actually find, as you
do, that industry is refreshingly direct compared to pure research, which is
why I prefer it.
I used to work at Agilent, a.k.a. "the good parts of the former Hewlett-
Packard." And, with the usual handful of exceptions, it really was the largest
collection of nice folks that you'll ever meet. So, yeah, I believe in the
existence of good businesses.
What I refer to is the emotional learning curve coming out of school. The part
where you learn, among other things, that not _everybody_ is trustworthy, and
that not every market-leading product is worth what it costs. That the ugly
method that is currently shipping is often better than the elegant but
theoretical alternative. That some of your company's products are, inevitably,
better than others. That any group of more than five people will face
political problems, misunderstandings, and red tape. And that without those
folks doing the marketing and accounting your business won't function.
None of which actually means that industry is a big con. It's just _real_.
It's not made of imaginary people living in an imaginary land. Academia is the
same, actually, though when you're in an especially bitter mood -- or faced
with the occasional person who _really is a con artist_ \-- you might think
otherwise.
~~~
edw519
lol
I went to business school because I was tired of being a cook and wanted a
better future.
The only thing I remember was, "A degree in business is a degree in nothing."
"How strange," I thought at the time.
"Truer words about business were never spoken," I think now.
------
gabriel
I recommend everyone go read the source essay by Ivan Krstić, rather than
someone's commentary on it. See here: <http://radian.org/notebook/sic-transit-
gloria-laptopi>
------
wumi
so can someone explain why Windows on the OLPC is such a crime -- especially,
as I said before, when some countries won't accept the OLPC without it?
whether the goal is learning or shipping laptops is immaterial -- if by
shipping laptops the students are learning, then the end goal is accomplished.
don't see how opening up the XO to Windows to get distributed to more kids who
need it is a bad thing.
~~~
andrewf
I see two almost independent objections here, and I think the press has failed
to convey this adequately:
\- One is the Linux argument; that these laptops should be open to tinkering
and closed source is inappropriate.
\- One is the Sugar argument; that the desktop-and-windows GUI is not good
enough, hence the building of the Sugar UI from the ground up. MS Windows is
viewed as inappropriate for the same reasons that the laptop wasn't originally
shipped with XFCE or GNOME.
As an interested observer, it seemed to me that both these arguments were
prominent design objectives for a long time. It's not surprising that if you
drop these objectives, a lot of the people who drank your Original Flavor
KoolAid will drop you faster than New Coke.
~~~
wmf
Both of these arguments sound like "we're going to build what our customers
_should_ want, not what they actually want". That rarely works except in a
monopoly situation. Maybe OLPC imagined themselves as some sort of benevolent
monopoly, but that rarely works as well.
~~~
jcl
In the case of the second argument -- Sugar as a more appropriate interface --
it may be more a case of "we're going to build what our customers will want,
not what they _think_ they want".
The XO has a screen that is not much larger than other ultra-compact
notebooks, but with a resolution on par with full-size notebooks. If you run a
standard Linux or Windows, any interface text or icons at the default size
will be so small as to be illegible. If you crank up the interface DPI to an
appropriate size, however, then you lose a lot of screen real estate to menus,
toolbars, and statusbars -- something we take for granted now that we have
20-inch displays (just try using Word in a 640x480 window).
What the XO really needs is an interface like a kiosk or mobile device:
something easy-to-use that aggressively conserves screen real estate. Sugar
fills this role pretty well... the default installs of Linux or XP do not.
Windows CE would have been a better choice than XP in this respect (and
others), but it would presumably have been more work for Microsoft with less
payoff, since CE has relatively few educational activities and doesn't run the
"real" version of Office.
------
Create
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Negroponte> gives Big Brother a whole new
meaning...
~~~
mechanical_fish
I hadn't actually realized that these two Negropontes were related...
I'm also not convinced that it's relevant. You can choose your friends, and
you can choose your philosophies, but you can't choose your relatives.
~~~
Create
But you can choose your employer (unless you are a slave _, which doesn't
apply here, being [] shipping magnates).
It is so simple; so elementary, that most people don't see it (e.g. think of
mass-energy relationship).
MIT's primary goals and funding agencies are well known, and so are the little
one's scientific achievements, supposedly securing him a place among "the
great". Also look @ at the goals of the OLPC, as the whole concept (not as a
cheap notebook with little green ears). It is written publicly in B&W:
"At its core, our journal concept embodies the idea that the file system
records a history of the things a child has done, or, more specifically, the
activities in which a child has participated. Its function as the store of the
objects created while performing those activities is secondary, although also
important. The Journal naturally lends itself to a chronological organization
(although it can be tagged, SEARCHED, and sorted by a variety of means). As a
record of things a child has done—not just the things a child has saved—the
Journal will read much like a portfolio or scrapbook history of the child's
interactions with the machine and also with peers. The Journal combines
entries explicitly created by the children with those that are IMPLICITLY
CREATED through participation in activities. [...] Each machine is a full-time
wireless router. Children in the most remote regions of the globe—as well as
their teachers and families—will be connected both to one another AND to the
Internet."
<http://laptop.org/en/laptop/interface/principles.shtml>
"It's data that's practically a printout of what's going on in your brain:
What you are thinking of buying, who you talk to, what you talk about."
--Kevin Bankston, staff attorney, Electronic Frontier Foundation
go and figure the rest. Guido's colonisation parallel with conversion to
Christianity / XP / Whatever is also very apparent: practically all "orders"
are from "client states". The ones likely to vote in favour of the MS Office
format to be an ISO standard. Advancing (computer?) literacy in MIT's backyard
would be a more ambitious goal ;)
_ Or as they say, in soviet Russia, the employer chooses you ;)
~~~
gojomo
For a critical look at the OLPC security model as an avenue for surveillance,
this paper is interesting:
"Freezing More Than Bits: Chilling Effects of the OLPC XO Security Model"
by Meredith L. Patterson, Len Sassaman, David Chaum
[http://www.usenix.org/event/upsec08/tech/full_papers/patters...](http://www.usenix.org/event/upsec08/tech/full_papers/patterson/patterson_html/)
------
ideas101
first of all i dont understand why this project is taking such a long time ...
if someone is really dedicated and committed then anything can be done, just
like TATA who created $2500 NANO car right from the scratch from patent to
assembly every single thing is innovative
(<http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/may/14tata.htm>) - TATA motivated tens of
hundreds of manufacturer and vendors to redesign their auto-parts to fit in
NANO car ... OLPC is for poor nations or say for 3rd world countries and i
dont think NGOs/Govt./schools have any preference over what o/s it comes with
as far as it can launch all educational application. OLPC laptop is not meant
for scientists anyway, so what the fuss - just keep it simple and open source
and create nice educational material so that kids form these countries can
learn something valuable. Also 3rd world countries are very humble and they
will be more than happy just to get this laptop (with or without XP).
~~~
Create
India has its own "OLPC"[1], not being a client state. Education works best,
when you work your way through: there is not royal path to knowledge (or,
teach fishing instead of selling cheap fish, if you like).
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simputer>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Samsung Group Is Doing a Cozy Merger - dsri
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-01/samsung-group-is-doing-a-cozy-merger
======
treme
Considering Samsung's been paying off justices & politicians for decades, it's
very unlikely that they will lose any sort of legal battle in Korea.
About a decade ago, the chief legal counsel of Samsung blew whistle on the
extent of corruption that goes on within the company. Of course, nothing of
consequence happened.
Source: Korean Wiki on the whole incident linked below
Google translate is poor for Korean, but you will get the gist of it.
[https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%82%BC%EC%84%B1_%EB%B9%84%E...](https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%82%BC%EC%84%B1_%EB%B9%84%EC%9E%90%EA%B8%88_%EA%B4%80%EB%A0%A8_%ED%8F%AD%EB%A1%9C)
~~~
speeder
By the way: the family that owns Samsung are distant relatives of the deposed
royal family and of several current politicians, so familial loyalty might be
in play too.
------
hkmurakami
I remember having dinner with a Korean friend (he grew up there and and came
to the States for college) where I asked how strongly the family owning
Samsung influences government.
His response: "They don't influence government. They are above the
government."
~~~
dba7dba
Wall Street doesn't influence US govt. They are above the govt.
~~~
adventured
How do you explain the fact that finance is among the most regulated
industries on earth, and the Fed directly controls the banks in numerous ways?
How do you explain the Treasury forcing banks like Wells Fargo to join TARP
against their own will?
Wall Street is a branch office of the US Government's financial interests.
They tell Wall Street what to do, and when to do it. They control all of the
regulations, they have all of the guns, and they have all of the money (both
taxing power and the US dollar).
Hell, the US Government earns more on just student loan interest annually than
the combined profit of both JP Morgan and Wells Fargo. Wall Street is
comically weak compared to the US Government and the Fed. One single month of
QE by the Fed tends to be more than the combined profit of the ten biggest
American banks.
Samsung revenue: $305 billion vs. South Korea GDP: ~$1.3 trillion
That's one company with sales equal to 23% the entire size of their economy.
By comparison, America's biggest company has sales equal to 2.7% of GDP.
Wall Street doesn't even come close to the kind of economic dominance over the
US economy that Samsung has over South Korea. America's biggest banks
_combined_ are about as big as Apple or Walmart in terms of sheer economic
clout.
~~~
dba7dba
Which Wall Street top head was charged and actually punished in court for
brining about the Great Recession? None. Samsung's chairperson was charged and
actually punished in court (although no actual prison time). At least he did
go through the motion.
WellsFargo/TARP happened because of the extraordinary circumstance called the
Great Recession, WHICH was made possible because Wall Street got rid of
regulations they didn't like, separation of retail-bank/investment-bank.
------
honest_joe
Korea needs another Park Chung Hee
~~~
pcurve
That's what a lot of elder generation Koreans want now.
Korea has been following the foot path of other industrialized nations, but at
more accelerated pace.
The country has peaked and its current course is not sustainable.
~~~
thepk
Does Korea have it's own version of the US's Sherman Anti-trust act?
I'm no expert but doesn't having an entire country's economy beholden to a
handful of super conglomerates make it potentially dangerous for the country
and its economy in large?
~~~
pcurve
Most Koreans see it as a necessary evil because the system of cozy
relationship between government and large conglomerates have served the
country so well, at least in their mind.
I think the system is starting to backfire because the income gap between
those affiliated with the conglomerates and those who don't has
stratospherically diverged, creating 2/3-tiered society.
~~~
honest_joe
But most koreans are not employed by conglomerates or at least not directly
(laws). There are more and more anti-chaebol laws (they can't make soap and
jeopardize small and medium makers).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
It’s the future - prostoalex
https://medium.com/@boopathi/it-s-the-future-7a4207e028c2
======
angersock
This is the pure distillation of everything I hate about front-end development
right now, especially as presented by posts on HN and meetups.
Look upon my frameworks, ye mighty, and despair.
I can't really blame the native folks for laughing at us anymore.
We've gotten so wrapped up in ax-sharpening that we've just made the entire
ecosystem a morass of sadness and bloat.
I wonder if this would've happened if it wasn't so hip to write these things,
if money wasn't sloshing around so freely (in some parts of the country,
anyway) and sustaining such haphazard growth.
~~~
krisdol
All I know is I don't know how to learn front end anymore. I started delving
into react and flux, but when trying to do personal "real world" projects it
seems like there is no end of unsupported opinion on every aspect --
disregarding the confusing levels of ES6 adoption across examples (ranging
from no ES6 features used to "this isn't even ES7 yet"), It seems like
everyone has a different answer for where to throw in a new abstraction. I
still don't know what dispatcher to use, if I should even use a package. And
the frameworks, they're all advertised "lightweight" swiss army knives of
code, but I can't really figure out objectively why one should even be used in
the first place.
It seems that there are a dozen implementations of every idea with a slight
change here or there. I used to find github activity as a good way to judge
whether a framework was well-supported and popular enough to be relatively
future proof, but even that's not a good way to go as few packages make it to
300 commits in the JS ecosystem.
All this just to display a webpage.
------
armandososa
If you started on front-end around 2004 like I did you've seen the natural
progression of plain-js -> Prototype -> jQuery -> Backbone -> Ember/Angular ->
React like a slow process that took more than 10 years but it does make sense
now.
I agree that learning front-end today must be overwhelming but is the
suggested alternative? Do things like we did a decade ago and figure it out
yourself?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Bit of News - sinzone
http://www.bitofnews.com/news/
======
MojoJolo
Awesome!
Hi guys, I'm the creator of TextTeaser API that was used by Bit of News. :) I
first thought that bitofnews is just a bot in Reddit. I'm really surprised
that this is now a full blown website/app.
Thanks for Bit of News for using the TextTeaser API.
~~~
diminish
Hi, congrats on quality results. Will you open source the algorithm and the
implementation, as you were mentioning on HN few months ago? What are your
startup plans?
~~~
MojoJolo
Yes, I will open source it soon. Here's a teaser:
[https://github.com/MojoJolo/textteaser](https://github.com/MojoJolo/textteaser)
------
tikhonj
Really impressive automatically generated summaries.
Of course, there are some funny parts as well. One of the bullet points for
"Russia halts adoptions to Sweden over gay nuptials" is just
• "It's terrible.
Very frank :D.
I certainly agree, but I imagine a person summarizing the article would not
have used this phrasing.
~~~
bitofnews
Hey creator of bitofnews here. Thanks for the compliments. If you liked the
summary, please checkout TextTeaser on Mashape, the supporting API.
As of right now, u/bitofnewsbot is banned from r/worldnews :( I'm getting in
touch with the mods to see what's up.
------
andrewcooke
auto-generated? if so, that's pretty impressive. [edit] huh, so that's
TextTeaser?
[https://www.mashape.com/mojojolo/textteaser#!documentation](https://www.mashape.com/mojojolo/textteaser#!documentation)
\- i had no idea that summaries of that quality were now commodity apis.
~~~
MojoJolo
Well, why not try the TextTeaser API yourself
([http://www.textteaser.com/](http://www.textteaser.com/))?
I'm the creator of the said API and thanks if you think it's impressive. Also
thanks for bitofnews for using the API.
~~~
bitofnews
Great API, and thank you!
------
jonnathanson
Very cool!
Minor nitpick, though: "news" is most commonly singular, so your tagline
should probably read "news that matters."
~~~
bitofnews
Creator here. I can't believe I overlooked that. Fixed :)
Sorry for being late, I didn't know this was posted here.
~~~
jonnathanson
Cool, and btw, I really love your service! It's so simple and useful. I have
been telling people about it and wish you the best of luck with it.
------
b0z0
Nice. I kind of like "news that matters" better than "news that matter,"
though.
------
abdophoto
This is great. I'm trying to make
[http://thetechblock.com](http://thetechblock.com) a destination for tech
articles and news that matter. Would love any feedback.
------
Kronopath
I'd love to see a site like this specifically focused on business news.
Keeping up with the latest news in business is important, but I've found most
business papers are so full of useless fluff stories that it drowns out the
ones that are most important.
~~~
bitofnews
Hey creator of bitofnews here. I plan on adding different news sections
(business, technology) soon. In the mean while, check out Wall Street
Breakfast. It gives summary of today's market performance:
[http://seekingalpha.com/article/1728342-wall-street-
breakfas...](http://seekingalpha.com/article/1728342-wall-street-breakfast-
must-know-news)
And sorry for being late to the thread! I didn't know this was posted here.
------
hayksaakian
It sucks that that first article right now is about that woman who got shot at
the capital building. Will this news ultimately matter? Probably not. The
other articles seem to be about more impactful things so other wise good job
~~~
nashequilibrium
It's funny that what we see as not eventful is usually seeds for something
big. I remember this with egypt both times and syria. I am not saying that
this is going to lead to something big but you never know, there could be an
uprising over the police moving towards kill at any cost vs kill only if
necessary. If you look at the video, at one point there was six cops
surrounding the vehicle, one cop had his forehead on the front passenger
window yet they could not see a little kid in there, also they could have shot
out the tires, someone that has no gun training could have done that as it was
at point blank range. In the 80s polics had better judgement and less police
injuries, today a guy can have a knife be 10 metres away and a group of cops
will go for the kill shot, amazing.
------
Nogwater
I like the simplicity, but how can it deliver it every morning without asking
for your time zone? The confirmation says it'll deliver at 9am. UTC?
~~~
sonier
Maybe it uses your IP to guess at a location?
------
aroman
What does this have to do with Ivy League schools? Is that just total fluff or
is there any sort of meat behind those words?
Does the author attend an Ivy league school? If so, why does he/she feel that
he/she can or should speak for all the other Ivies? What am I missing?
~~~
avyfain
This is exactly what I thought when I looked at it... Is there any
relationship to the schools?
------
ck2
Very well done!
Now trying to get over the horrifying news that someone poured gasoline on
themselves and tried to burn themselves to death in self-immolation near the
white house. What the heck is going on in DC
------
xerophtye
This is pretty cool, but does it have some feature to select the sources? or
at least what type of news you are interested in? That would make things so
much better!
------
mnx
Bit of feedback: It seems quite US centric. I'm not sure how the selection is
done, but maybe you could add a 'Rest of the world' section?
------
tsheng
Nicely presented application of textteaser. A little put off by the focus on
the "ivy experience" though. Is that some sort of marketing play?
------
olog-hai
The stories at [http://evening-edition.com/](http://evening-edition.com/) are
much more meaningful.
------
level09
Nice but I was wondering why would you develop anything on top of a deprecated
(Google news) API ?
------
jaseflow
Awesome but did you need to blatantly rip the Medium design?
~~~
zhs
Exactly what I was thinking, it's pretty much a direct clone.
~~~
aw3c2
The typefaces are completely different as is the whitespace.
------
p4bl0
This is great. Could there be an RSS or Atom feed?
------
SuperChihuahua
Is it legal?
------
hmslydia
Most useful and relevant new summary I've never read. Sold.
------
contextual
The first story of the woman driver shot to death is the rotten apple in the
barrel. The rest of the stories are better, and with broader appeal.
Just so you know, I'll probably never visit this site again because of that
godawful story. It didn't enhance my life or my understanding of the world. It
did the opposite.
~~~
yesimanotter
>female driver
Fixed that for you. Also I'm not sure why you're so mad over that story. Most
news doesn't enhance your life or your understanding of the world, it's just
news. You have to put it in context to extract any meaning from it.
~~~
contextual
Light attracts light, darkness attracts darkness. If you can think
metaphorically, you'll understand what this means.
------
christiangenco
Oh hey, I like this. Users++
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Five Chrome extensions to get the most out of Hacker News - czzarr
http://www.slideshare.net/stanislasm/hacker-news-15387250
======
sergiotapia
Here are the extensions for those who don't want to load Slideshare (it's kind
of heavy on slow connections):
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tldr/ohmamcbkcmfal...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tldr/ohmamcbkcmfalompaelgoepcnbnpiioe)
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hackerface/daljeje...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hackerface/daljejehnbbbhjlecjgafnnfgilbkdhj)
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-
hotkey...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-
hotkeys/nkeegljkkibjiiaehmjfncdbkbbgdojb)
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-
collap...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-
collapse/bbkfcamiocfccgmcjngdljolljhifdph)
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-
show-p...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-show-
parent-c/mombaccochlhdjfihfnamdpehcjmncmh)
------
e40
Was surprised to not see "Hacker News Enhancement Suite" on the list. It does
some of what those 5 do.
~~~
urlwolf
Same here. Best HN extension ever.
------
TeMPOraL
Keep in mind, when trying different extensions, that you might get easily
ipbanned here if you and the extension together start sending too many
requests too quickly.
If it has happened to you, see <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4761102>
for instructions on how to unban yourself.
------
Foomandoonian
I use Georgify, which only makes cosmetic tweaks but IMO makes HN much more
pleasant to use.
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/georgify/ofjfdfale...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/georgify/ofjfdfaleomlfanfehgblppafkijjhmi)
------
bryanlarsen
I've been relying on hckrnews.com for a while now. Its extension is linked
from the about page.
------
Charlesmigli
How about this one to display the recent HN stories?
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-
news/geancn...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-
news/geancnifhbkbjijfkcjjdnfemppmcjmk)
------
urlwolf
Not much going on in terms of FF addons. Did I miss anything for HN?
------
heymishy
great list, have added most of them already!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lumnify – an interesting project that helps you hire the best developers - stanislavb
https://lumnify.com/
======
throwaway_374
This is a very welcome and refreshing change to the usual "lets rip off old
ACMICPC and Computing Olympiad O(N) dynamic programming problems and sell them
off to gullible lazy recruiters". Yes, I'm looking at YOU Codility and a
(shamefully YC funded alumnus) Hackerrank.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How many ways can you bow in Japan? - JacobAldridge
http://www.slate.com/id/2244063/
======
patio11
_Why is the car company called Toyota, if its founding family goes by the name
Toyoda? The former is more auspicious. The written form of Toyota requires
eight brush strokes—as opposed to 10 for Toyoda—and eight is considered a
lucky number._
This is so comprehensively wrong I don't even know where to start. The kanji
for Toyota (豊田) and Toyoda (豊田) are identical. Bitwise identical, even. (And I
count 18 brush strokes, which leads me to think that someone thinks the
decision was between トヨタ and トヨダ, which is backwards: the pronunciation does
not get decided when you need to disambiguate for writing katakana, it gets
decided on naming, and anyone who reads 豊田自動車 as Toyoda Jidousha is _reading
it wrong_ and has been for more than eighty years now.)
Toyota Motors sometimes prefers to use the katakana version of its name (トヨタ)
in preference to the kanji, but that is basically a branding thing ("it
scarcely matters what you pick as long as it is consistent!"). They'll write
it with kanji every once in a while too, as will newspapers and the like
referring to their country. (This is very roughly similar to newspapers
referring to William Jefferson Clinton as "Bill" -- it is an acknowledged
correct name other than the canonical one.)
Other companies in the Toyota group standardize on the kanji (such as 豊田自動織機
-- Toyota Industries Corporation) or even on the romaji ("Toyota") versions.
------
ebun
Bowing is so integrated here that I don't even realize I'm doing it anymore.
It becomes second nature, and you pretty much do it before and after
everything.
Even though I don't really understand the intricacies, I can usually get-by by
overdoing it all the time. When in doubt, bow.
------
brazzy
The explanations in the articles are several decades out of date. Nowadays,
parents and schools have other focuses than the intricacies of bowing, and
companies routinely hold classes on this (and, more importantly, "keigo", the
formally polite grammar and vocabulary) for newly-hired graduates.
------
pwim
I'm reminded of <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqZcEwHBAk8>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google created a fake pizza brand to test creative strategies for YouTube ads - CrazedGeek
https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/20/google-doctor-fork/
======
drdeadringer
This reminds me of a hotel that elected to advertise its own "Room Service
Pizza" as a local commercial business. It went something like this...
A given guest checks in, unpacks, and finds themselves ready for dinner. They
skim over the room service menu, considers Room Service Pizza, and then dials
a nearby pizza chain for delivery. Reviews for Room Service Pizza were not
good. At the time, "Dominoes Is Cardboard" among similar chain-pizza love was
going on so it wasn't looking up for Room Service Pizza even though it was
right there on site and arguably not that bad as the story goes.
The hotel tried "everything" but it would never work; recipes, surveys, fresh
ingredients... "One Chain Pizza, Please" was always the result.
One day someone desperate and with authority had an idea. They had changed
"everything else" by this point, so let's go "marketing". This person drums up
a separate phone number, business name, menu, logo, uniforms, the whole bit
for Room Service Pizza. Drops the flier menu into the "local restaurants"
courtesy spread in their rooms. It's not "Room Service Pizza" anymore, it's
"Tony's Tower Pizza" or whatever.
Orders pick up. Reviews go up. Deliveries for Chain Pizza start to drop a bit
on a noticeable level. Every time the special phone line for "Room Service
Pizza", aka "Tony's Tower Pizza", rang up they knew something had finally
broke free for themselves.
... So, I guess my point is that this isn't the first time pizza and playing
masquerade have come together for a business. Here, a hotel uses ads and
"rebranding" to sell their own pizza vs Google using fake pizza to sell more
ads. If pizza were a coin, these might be opposite sides of it.
~~~
dawnerd
Universal Orlando has their own in house pizza that’s totally branded
differently and they even throw flyers under the hotel room doors to make it
look like a local chain. Thing is, it’s actually pretty decent pizza and the
price isn’t too bad either. In their case I think most people have caught on
to theme park resort pizza being awful so branding was essential.
~~~
nerdponx
_it’s actually pretty decent pizza and the price isn’t too bad either._
Most room service pizza is. Suggestion is a powerful force.
------
legitster
1\. It's hard to understand these conclusions without knowing what they used
to measure the effectiveness. Clicks? Skips?
2\. From the headline, I assumed that they used a fake brand to track the
number of searches for it later. Perhaps to see how paid ads could influence
organic search. It seems like that would have been a more interesting result.
~~~
ectospheno
I read the article and I also can't figure out how they measured what they
claim to have measured. The results seem made up in much the same way other
advertising metrics and results seem made up.
~~~
alentodorov
Whenever I used to run Youtube ads ($100k campaigns) the account manager at
Google Ads informed us about an automated option of neasuring assisted and
unassisted recall. People whom seen the ads were presented with one question
surveys on Youtube. It was pretty interesting as you could see what would be a
good reach and frequency for your ads.
------
fipple
This is like the age-old "hack" of creating a landing page for a B2B startup
that doesn't exist, to gauge demand and build a marketing list.
~~~
rhizome
That's the canonical definition of an MVP.
~~~
cookingrobot
An MVP has just enough features to satisfy early customers. If all you've
built is a landing page to gauge interest, that's useful for validating the
idea, but that's not a product.
~~~
lucasmullens
The iconic Dropbox MVP was just a video, so I'd argue an MVP can often refer
to something like a simple landing page.
~~~
mygo
I mean... just because someone can call a video an MVP doesn’t mean it was an
MVP.
An MVP is a functioning product/service. It’s something that provides enough
utility / functionality that the user can actually use. Unless dropbox was a
media company demoing a new film, the video was not an MVP. It was a marketing
campaign.
------
partiallypro
I do wonder if some of the outcomes were dictated by people wondering about
what this new brand was. It would be different if they were serving small
populations, but they served it 20 Million times. I guess that is a good case
study for small brands, but do the results stay the same when people recognize
the brand?
~~~
sushid
It seems like this might be the precursor to doing a real test (probably
small/regional) with a real brand. If the response was extremely negative I'd
think that they'd shelve it altogether.
------
marzell
Is this even legal, given false advertising guidelines? They have provided an
advertisement for products by a company that doesn't exist. I don't know the
legal details, but I am questioning whether this is actually permitted in the
U.S. if you go by the letter of the law.
~~~
oh_sigh
I am not an expert in this area, but none of the ads I watched seem to
actually advertise anything. There is basically just a picture of a pizza and
a saying like "The tangy sweetness of fresh mozzarella"
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFfnLmpHEyLYLqHdyOmVE...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFfnLmpHEyLYLqHdyOmVElmy_5isisklx)
~~~
daeken
For this to be false advertising, there would need to be an offer that's
extended to customers. For instance, "$10 large pizza" would be an offer: give
us $10 and we give you a large pizza. If they failed to follow through on that
deal (by, say, not accepting money and not giving pizzas) then that would be
false advertising. There's no such offer in these ads, or anything that could
even be remotely construed as an offer.
This is not an advertisement for chocolate cake:
[https://tastesbetterfromscratch.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/...](https://tastesbetterfromscratch.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/12/Dark-Chocolate-Cake-5.jpg)
------
lalos
This concept is very creepy. This particular pizza example reported is not but
who knows if they come clean on ALL their experiments. They have a lot of
power in their hands and now they are running experiments on people without
them even knowing? This can get out of hand just like ads were used to push
certain narratives during elections all over the world in all platforms and
just like Facebook was playing with people's emotions with different posts
shown [0]. No regulation, no ethic panel, no external audit, no transparency
and they still show it off innocently.
[0]
[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/30/facebook-...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/30/facebook-
emotion-study-breached-ethical-guidelines-researchers-say)
~~~
ThomPete
I am trying to understand the moral/ethical issue here. Care to elaborate?
There might be something I am missing here cause I just don't see it. It's a
genuine question.
~~~
anonymfus
These ads were lying.
~~~
kowdermeister
Aren't all ads lying?
~~~
anyfoo
I keep being baffled at how transgressions tend to get handwaved away with
"everybody does it" by some commenters on Hacker News.
First, there are plenty of locations where advertising is heavily regulated.
Second, even in locations where that is not true, "everybody does it" does not
justify anything. Every surgeon used to perform their job without washing
their hands, and yet we got rid of that behavior.
~~~
kowdermeister
> "everybody does it" does not justify anything
Indeed, it doesn't, I just found the commenter being way too captain obvious
:)
------
gukov
If you're not paying, you're the prod... test subject.
------
sarcasmic
This is not without precedent in the ad industry, although the level of
subtlety varies a lot.
Billboards are a notable example, because the medium is in-house and there's
almost always latent inventory. Adams Outdoor once advertised the fictitious,
toilet humor brand 'Outhouse Springs', then years later the seemingly
personality-enhancing wonder drug 'Reachemol'. Lamar's Milwaukee division
advertised a cat doctor with a preference for chocolate who healed 'boo-boos
with nom-noms'.
This is essentially a big A/B test, and unlike billboards, they can collect
fine-grained data on how people interact with the ad.
------
modells
Damn, I'm jonesing for a Celeste four-cheese microwave pizza really bad rn.
Where might a lowly member of the public borrow magical 1970's microwave
technology in the Mountain View area?
PS: Anyone have one of those huge Radarange RR-9 microwaves with that
(capacitive?) touch-panel in the late 70's or early 80's? Yup, I'm ooooold.
------
wiradikusuma
The 1st and 2nd conclusions seem to contradict each other: one said put
everything together while the other one said no?
------
jacquesm
There's a Dutch IT company (Topicus) that has an _actual_ Pizza brand, and
they brew their own beer too!
------
trumped
looks like engineers or robots decided on the store name... "Doctor Fork"? for
a pizza restaurant?
~~~
ronilan
They ran an experiment.
Users reported that eating pizza with a fork was much preferred to eating it
with chopsticks.
The Chinese version may differ though. They’ll test this later if the party
allows.
~~~
thefounder
Who eats pizza with chopsticks?
~~~
bausshf
The same people who eats pizza with banana
~~~
trumped
Did someone say Hawaiian pizza? (or is that with pineapple...)
~~~
bausshf
Hawaiian pizza is with pineapple.
This is a Swedish abomination.
------
in_hindsight
Is it the pizza they called during voice assistant demo? ;)
------
tabtab
"Totally _fork news_ , believe me!"
------
amelius
Tl;dr: Google did a bunch of experiments to see how best to manipulate people.
They used a fake pizza brand "Doctor Fork" for this purpose.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: GiLA – Visualizing how issue labels are used in GitHub projects - softmodeling
http://atlanmod.github.io/gila/
======
joksnet
"You are accessing from an HTTPS connection and our service is located in an
HTTP server."
What?
~~~
softmodeling
In short, this is the sad life of researchers in Software Engineering. You
would think we have all kinds of facilities to setup our own servers and the
like. Well, we don't :-( (and I better stop here)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New Report Looks at Trends in Mobile Continuous Integration - awilson820
https://ship.io/the-state-of-mobile-development-ios-vs-android-in-2015/
======
timrosenblatt
Is "more frequent commits" really a good thing?
------
amberkaplan
Great stuff!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lisp as an Alternative to Java (1999) - nwhitfield1
http://norvig.com/java-lisp.html
======
lisper
This article appears on HN on a regular basis, so I thought people might be
interested in a bit of historical trivia: the reason this article is called
"Lisp as an Alternative to Java" instead of some other language is that it
cribbed the title off my original study
([http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-
java.pdf](http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf)). The reason _that_
article was titled the way it was is that I was working at JPL at the time and
there was a software crisis underway. To that point, spacecraft had been
mostly programmed in assembly language. The then-recently-launched Cassini
spacecraft was a notable exception, having been programmed in Ada. But it was
becoming clear that neither of these approaches scaled well, and so the hunt
was on for an alternative. Java was the hot new language at the time, and it
was under serious consideration to become the new standard for spacecraft
coding. But Java was new and immature (and, in those days, very very slow),
and I was advocating to use Common Lisp instead. That study was conducted --
and the paper was titled -- in order to bolster my case.
Ultimately, Common Lisp flew on a spacecraft once, on the New Millennium DS1
mission. Unfortunately, there was a serious political shitstorm that
accompanied that mission, and Lisp never flew again despite several million
dollars having been spent to show it to be a viable approach. :-(
~~~
pjmlp
That is what I have found in most of my research of computing since Burroughs
attempted to use an Algol variant for systems programming.
The general opinion is that those systems failed due to technical issues,
however most of the time failures are caused by political wars.
They are even worse when they are caused by those that don't want things to
change, like what seems to have happened during Longhorn development.
So one needs a group strong enough monetary and political, to be able to
change ways of computing, sometimes even loosing a couple of battles to
eventually win the game.
~~~
bluejekyll
Info on the Longhorn project: [http://longhorn.ms/](http://longhorn.ms/)
~~~
pjmlp
Windows 8 base design is basically Longhorn to certain extent.
They brought COM+ Runtime back from the grave, exchanged the COM type
libraries for .NET metadata and renamed it WinRT.
At the same time C++/CLI syntax was repurposed for C++/CX this time doing AOT
compilation to native code. Similarly, .NET went through two new AOT
compilation toolchains, first the MDIL binary format used in Windows 8.x,
followed by .NET Native introduced in Windows 10.
Which begs the question if the Dev and Windows devisions weren't so busy
fighting each other, maybe just maybe, Longhorn would have had the UWP
application model instead of Windows having gone through all these releases
until they had settled their differences.
Now it still remains to be seen how much it will eventually matter.
This was just an example, there are others regarding other technologies, for
example Symbolics had quite a few internal fights.
[http://danluu.com/symbolics-lisp-machines/](http://danluu.com/symbolics-lisp-
machines/)
------
preordained
I've experienced those types of speed ups when doing "puzzler" programs in
Haskell as opposed to Java (the language I make money programming in). If
given a few weeks to implement a REST API or something much more real world,
I'd kick Haskell to the curb and cleave to Java like a long lost lover.
Libraries, tooling, community support and information...these are the
language's "killer" features.
~~~
seagreen
I support this attitude!
Haskell is coming around though. We got Stack which is a fantastic package
manager, and we now have a web API library which is pretty much unmatched:
[http://haskell-servant.readthedocs.io/en/stable/](http://haskell-
servant.readthedocs.io/en/stable/) (each Servant endpoint has a type, and you
can generate docs and client libraries from your backend code). Editor tooling
has historically been the other problem, but that's starting to come around
too.
~~~
harryjo
It's like Year of Linux on the Desktop. Every year it gets better, and some
long-suffered pain point is solved. But every year the world moves on and
users want more. Without a massive investment, it just can't keep up.
------
giardini
What are Oracle's plans for Java and the JVM?
"Insider: Oracle has lost interest in Java" \-
[http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987529/java/insider-
oracle...](http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987529/java/insider-oracle-lost-
interest-in-java.html)
"The email, sent to InfoWorld on Tuesday by a former high-ranking Java
official, claimed to feature details from inside Oracle. It said the company
was becoming a cloud company, competing with Salesforce, and 'Java has no
interest to them anymore.' The subject line cited 'Java -- planned
obsolescence.'"
"Oracle’s “planned obsolescence” for Java" \- [https://jaxenter.com/oracle-
and-javas-planned-obsolescence-1...](https://jaxenter.com/oracle-and-javas-
planned-obsolescence-121144.html)
'Oracle is cutting back on Java EE...it[Oracle] does not want to allow other
companies to help out on the Java platform. Proprietary product work will be
done using the Java app server WebLogic, and there will also be a proprietary
microservices platform. The email also dashes any hopes of Oracle
collaborating on a ‘Java foundation’ with other companies, let alone ever
relinquishing its ‘ownership’ of the Java platform.'
~~~
joostdevries
From what I hear the JVM still has a funded team at Oracle. It's Java EE that
has been put in the fridge. See fi this article on the upcoming Graal vm:
[https://medium.com/@octskyward/graal-
truffle-134d8f28fb69#.9...](https://medium.com/@octskyward/graal-
truffle-134d8f28fb69#.9tsd6xbs6)
~~~
meddlepal
Java EE is back. Oracle reversed course recently. I'm on mobile so I can't
find the soyrce but if you browse /r/java you can read about it. They were
thinking about killing EE for their own proprietary platform which backfired.
SE isn't going anywhere. Personally I'm a JVM developer but I really don't
care too much about EE.
------
nine_k
Statically typed language vs dynamically typed language is always a large set
of differences / compromises.
Java in 1999 was about as inexpressive as today's Go. The gap is narrower if
you take today's Java 8.
------
cm3
Or Oberon
[http://www.jucs.org/jucs_4_5/open_standards_beyond_java/Fran...](http://www.jucs.org/jucs_4_5/open_standards_beyond_java/Franz_M.html)
(1998).
The tech was released in 1996:
[http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt69.htm](http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt69.htm)
[https://github.com/Spirit-of-Oberon/Juice](https://github.com/Spirit-of-
Oberon/Juice)
[https://github.com/berkus/Juice](https://github.com/berkus/Juice)
~~~
pjmlp
With your nickname I was expecting Modula-3. :)
~~~
cm3
Good point, though Juice was a direct answer to Java from a pupil of Wirth, so
there's that.
It's funny that Franz was influential to both Brendan Eich (JS) and Andreas
Gal (Tracing JIT) but we still got JavaScript as a language, even though
Brendan cited[1] Oberon as an influence. At least we got tracing JITs and the
alternative AST encoding from Franz's intellectual cloud. I would really like
to understand how Bill Joy and Brendan Eich studied Oberon and we still got
Java and JavaScript, which haunt us to this day like the industrial takeover
by C in the 1980s does.
[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9733520](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9733520)
~~~
Roboprog
Love your description of the C/Java regime as a coup d'etat.
Join the dynamic programming underground! :-) (Or at least use a static
language that's not all jacked up)
~~~
pjmlp
C would never had taken over the computing world if AT&T had the freedom to
sell UNIX and did so at the same price levels as the other OSes, instead of
giving almost for free to universities as they decided to do.
Same thing with Java, it was available for free, just download and install
with a JDK that was "batteries included" versus the chaos of trying to write
portable code in C or C++ in the mid-90's.
------
dschiptsov
If one has serious interest in expert level Common Lisp code there is the
Norvig's masterpiece _Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming_ (PAIP)
which is available form Amazon or torrents.
There is also the Common Lisp code from AIMA second edition.
PAIP and AIMA for CL is the same as SICP and old classic HtDP for Scheme.
After mastering these one might consider oneself a programmer.)
------
claystu
For me, it's a question of tooling.
I would love to see a Common Lisp expert do an entire book on Armed Bear
Common Lisp (Common Lisp entirely on the JVM). Edi Weitz hinted at what might
be possible in his book, Common Lisp Recipes, but only very superficially.
To me, the power of Common Lisp married to the ubiquity and library of the JVM
is the great possible future for CL.
~~~
jlg23
> For me, it's a question of tooling.
emacs & slime[1]
> I would love to see a Common Lisp expert do an entire book on Armed Bear
> Common Lisp
I'm curious what you'd expect from such a book. There are some excellent books
on CL in general and good libraries that provide a convenient layer over
implementation specific things (e.g.: uiop or cl-fad). One usually does not
think about a specific CL implementation when writing code - I'd even go as
far as saying that targeting a specific implementation is usually a sign of
bad coding style.
[1] [https://common-lisp.net/project/slime/](https://common-
lisp.net/project/slime/)
~~~
claystu
> emacs & slime[1]
I've spent a lot of time with emacs, and slime was what I used when I was
exploring Common Lisp: both SBCL and CLISP. Emacs is really powerful and I'm
fairly at home with it, but I've come to prefer more graphical IDE's. Judging
from the popularity of Eclipse, Visual Studio, NetBeans, etc...I'd say I'm not
alone. Telling programmers it's emacs+slime or the highway is not a strength;
it discourages everyone who prefers those other environments.
> I'd even go as far as saying that targeting a specific implementation is
> usually a sign of bad coding style.
I was suggesting ABCL because it is a full implementation of CL on the JVM. If
there are other CL's with ABCL's level of maturity on the JVM, then they would
work just as well.
Beyond that, I imagine that many programming projects target specific
implementations for various, pragmatic reasons.
~~~
taeric
What do the graphical environments gain you, in most cases? I'll not argue
that they don't usually have better defaults configured. Autocomplete, in
particular, typically works out of the box. These can work in emacs, though.
(Even in vim, to be honest.)
Seems most of them "win" by having more effective advocacy than they do more
effective features.
~~~
claystu
>What do the graphical environments gain you
Simplicity. In my IDE, I start it up and then program.
With emacs, it always felt like I spent a lot of time curating the editor.
Part of that was because customizing emacs is fun--I have this big .emacs file
that imports an even bigger .elisp file--but I also always seemed to be
referring to some documentation because I'd forgotten that particular set of
key-chords or messing with something to get it to work.
I've come to prefer simplicity. In fact, after years of using emacs, I
switched to vim for the moments when I want to program on the command line. (I
think my only customization in VIM is mapping jj to escape)
~~~
noobermin
In case this helps anyone else, I've found that a better shortcut for me is
Ctrl+[ , which actually maps to escape too. I too found having to tap escape
to exit modes was annoying since I had to make my fingers leave the home row
and there is no need to customize mapping in this case.
If you're used to hitting ctrl with your left pinky, which is necessary for us
emacsers, then Ctrl+[ will be 100x better than hitting escape.
------
ww520
It's not a popular opinion. With all due respect to Norvig, I feel it was not
a valid comparison. Java came out on 1996. Most people were not experienced in
it and were still figuring out how best to use it at the time. The language
and tooling were still immature. Lisp had been around for a long time then.
And he was very good very experienced in lisp at the time. Plus he had the
insight gained for the test afterward. So it is kind of expected to do well.
The greater variance between programmers than languages is very telling. It
shows experience and competence trump language difference.
------
dustingetz
Has Peter Norvig written about why Google went all in on java?
~~~
davidron
Did Google? Google is very much a polyglot orginization.
[https://www.quora.com/Which-programming-languages-does-
Googl...](https://www.quora.com/Which-programming-languages-does-Google-use-
internally)
As for Android, Google Purchased Android Inc in 2005, and I'm pretty sure the
decision to use Java came before Google's purchase.
~~~
pjmlp
It also helps that Android team has quite a few ex-Sun engineers that used to
work on Java, so I imagine that they rather keep pushing it than anything
else.
They are always quite clear that it is Java + C or C++ for native methods,
regardless of what developers might wish for.
------
beders
It's the same old problem. Writing as little code as possible is a non-goal
for a team of developers. Writing maintainable, easy-to-understand code is
much much more important.
And while I value Lisp (I started on Allegro Common Lisp on Sun OS), it's
density is also its greatest problem for any significantly large codebases.
------
Kinnard
Has anyone produce compelling insights on what causes these productivity
differentials?
~~~
abecedarius
Dunno, but note that the Lisp programmers in the study were self-selected from
a call for volunteers on comp.lang.lisp (and maybe comp.lang.scheme, I don't
remember). I suspect programmer skill mattered more than the choice of
language. (I was one of the volunteers, so obviously I'm biased.)
Ron could've partly controlled for this by posting the same query on
comp.lang.java -- of course it's still very hard to say how much bias would
remain.
~~~
danbruc
My guess also. I obviously could not resist and tried it in C#, took me 45
minutes but I admittedly did not bother to bring it to production quality. One
could certainly spend another hour or even an entire day and optimize it in
all kind of ways, from readability to performance. Also the available tools
are certainly important - selecting and converting a couple of lines into a
new method takes me less than five second or so with ReSharper, those things
add up if you have to do it often enough.
------
qwertyuiop924
As a Schemer who hates Java, I only wish it was.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using Sleeper Cells to Load Test Microservices - weirdedhimself
https://www.sumologic.com/2015/06/22/sleeper-cells-for-microservices/
======
devendra
+1
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Read deleted comments on Reddit - handwashand
http://decomment.com/
======
avinassh
An alternative solution which I regularly use:
[http://uneddit.com](http://uneddit.com)
It has a bookmarklet and activating on any Reddit thread will load the
deleted/removed comments.
------
rfotino
Very little information on the site -- how does this work? Presumably by
storing the contents of every Reddit comment made since Decomment's creation
and serving them up on demand? I imagine once you delete a comment on Reddit
it's no longer available via the API or by scraping the site, but I was hoping
something more interesting was going on than just storing comments in a
separate database before they are deleted.
~~~
toomuchtodo
That's exactly what goes on.
~~~
handwashand
yes, exactly
------
toomuchtodo
Reddit comments are owned by their owners, no (at least, that's how copyright
works in the USA)?
How do undelete sites fly under the radar? Is it just that no one has been
effected enough yet to warrant the hammer? It appears decomment.com is hosted
on OVH servers in the EU (France possibly?). Aren't they keen on their "right
to be forgotten" law?
------
cLeEOGPw
It should be called "undelete". Decomment sounds like it is deleting comments.
~~~
handwashand
yes... but i think its sounds good
------
evan_
You've posted this same site here three times in the last two weeks.
~~~
dang
A small number of reposts is ok if an article hasn't had significant attention
yet. Otherwise too many good stories languish unnoticed on the /newest page.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)
~~~
pki
I'd think, personally, a bit less so if he signed up specifically to post that
one thing, and contribute absolutely nothing else..
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
This guy rap-pitched his product and got viral - akubonin
https://twitter.com/ProductHunt/status/927611573824241664
======
akubonin
This guy from Berlin invented a music app and created a rap-pitch video, where
he is using his app and rapping about his project. And doing it not only fun,
but also rather sharp and straight to the point. A few days after, the story
was picked up by Product Hunt, who named it "The Best Demo Video Ever". After
the Product Hunt's mention the video is getting viral with a lot of
influencers reposting and commenting on it. It looks like the lucky dude is
going to have his exit soon...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What do you call the lead developer's offsider? - singingfish
I just realised that my resume needs to be updated, because the project I've been working on has hit a major milestone. An amateur computer programmer done good, I'm a subcontractor for one of the big guys. Basically I'm the principal contractor's (who is lead developer, primary project manager and domain expert) offsider. How should I describe that in less than 5 words in my resume?
======
sidmitra
Why do you have to say it in less than 5 words? I'm in the same boat. I
clearly say i'm an independent contractor(and a lead engineer). And i clearly
say what i do/did.
Eg. [http://www.linkedin.com/in/sidmitra](http://www.linkedin.com/in/sidmitra)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
JuicyDrop – Winamp Music Visualization with JavaScript and Canvas - auchenberg
http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/juicydrop/
======
rplnt
Actually, no. That's a winamp-like skin with some random audio player. I doubt
that skin is in javascript and the player is generic something. Nothing like
winamp at all. Audio visualizations in javascript would be a betetr title.
~~~
l0gicpath
The title does state that it's Winamp music visualisation.
~~~
leviathan
when the OP commented it was: "Winamp in JavaScript. Yes"
------
Shish2k
Can we just accept that javascript is as practically turing complete as any
other language and move on with our lives? :P
~~~
arnarbi
Turing completeness has little to do with it. JS was always Turing complete,
yet these little exercises were not possible 5 years ago.
~~~
csmuk
Not desirable either. Not sure they are desirable now either.
~~~
mathgladiator
ars gratia artis
------
nailer
UI appears but all boxes are dark on Chrome 31.0, OS X.
Edit: enabled Flash and it's playing. Looks like this is Flash/AS, not JS.
~~~
coldtea
Not sure what you're talking about. This is plain Javascript.
~~~
k3n
I don't believe it is. I have click-to-play for plugins, which means that JS
runs without issue, but I have to specifically allow any plugins, e.g. Flash.
I get the same thing as parent when I visit -- black boxes -- along with an
indication in my address bar that plugins have been blocked.
Looking further at the source on index.html, I see this:
soundManager.url = './'; // path to directory containing SoundManager2 .SWF file
So this is very obviously just a shell around a Flash file.
------
islon
It's not a valid javascript post if it doesn't say how many lines of code did
you use.
Edit: grammar
------
drobati
Posted 4 years ago.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=532080](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=532080)
------
untothebreach
Ah yes, Atwood's Law ([http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/07/the-principle-
of-le...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/07/the-principle-of-least-
power.html)) strikes again.
~~~
talles
My first thought ^^
------
fat0wl
I know everybody is tired of these Javascript POC apps but I think it's a
testament to the fact that it's so easy to implement webapps vs desktop stuff,
and can perform functionally well.
If Google released a version of Chrome that could camouflage itself as a
desktop app (browser-based UI over C++ functionality, but that browser appears
as it's own app rather than another damn open tab) I think we would see a
flourishing of better desktop apps rather than just everything-you-can-think-
of-stuck-in-a-browser.
EDIT: Funny I got downvoted because the responses that follow are probably the
greatest amount of insight/interest on the whole page. The rest of the
comments are just whining about how this isn't a perfect Winamp emulation lol.
~~~
zanny
I don't know of a good framework to cache an app in localstorage so its
available offline transparently. IE, you want it so once someone runs your
"app" once, and adds it as an app (a .desktop file, whatever the equivalent in
Windows is, etc) so that it only ever pulls the pages from the network when an
update is found.
~~~
fat0wl
heh i don't want to build an APP!! that's kinda the point, lol.
i'm not an app developer. i make audio stuff with machine learning tools & I'm
a web dev to pay the bills. But in this case all i really want is to build a
desktop application (c++,java,whatever) and have a browser-based UI... but not
have it appear as a browser tab.
------
l0gicpath
Audio visualisation/winamp-like/winamp/take your pick, it's still a cool
experiment. I'm digging the music choice too.
------
JonnieCache
Ahhh, the days of milkdrop...
Best viewed via a crap projector thrown onto a hippie's face.
Surely we can simulate that in js as well now?
Fuck, we can probably do it in css.
~~~
prg318
Speaking of Milkdrop, the sources of milkdrop 1 and 2 have been released [1].
A couple developers have taken the milkdrop 1 sources and built them into a
cross platform visualization software called projectM [2]. Milkdrop forever!
[1]
[http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=214971](http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=214971)
[2] [http://projectm.sourceforge.net/](http://projectm.sourceforge.net/)
------
laveur
Forget the visualizer go to the article for the visualizer and enjoy pseudo-
playing Mario Brother's in the Background!
------
vcherubini
Looks like it's a bit old if it's still using jQuery 1.2.6 from 2008.
~~~
k3n
Good eye, see drobati's comment -- it was evidently posted here 4 years ago.
------
ArekDymalski
Oh, I hoped that would recreate Winamp's AVC. Sigh ...
------
djmollusk
The mp3s that are commented out are the best ones.
------
jheriko
cool tribute, but yeah... missing all the stuff that made winamp actually
cool.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An “Operator Pattern” Experience Report - Graphguy
https://www.ibm.com/blogs/bluemix/2019/01/an-operator-pattern-experience-report/
======
kocolosk
Lots of nuggets of wisdom in this post, many of them informed directly from
experiences in production. I hear plenty of people talking about "building
operators" as the next step after Helm charts these days, but haven't seen
many dig into the details of what that really means and how to go about making
it a reality.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lucene: The Good Parts - pixelmonkey
http://blog.parsely.com/post/1691/lucene/
======
MichaelGG
Lucene is quite fantastic and Elasticsearch makes it a joy to use.
Still, I wonder what the overhead of Java is adding in this case. Even minor
things like integer decoding can be done very fast with SIMD... but such
approaches don't seem amenable to Java. I see that Elasticsearch exposes quite
a bit of GC metrics, which must be a problem at times. And one of the Lucene
devs wrote a post on how he replaced some parts with C++ and saw massive gains
(but with a disclaimer that this was in no way indicative that Java wasn't
fast).
I've considered trying to implement something like Lucene in, say, Rust, but
then I see just how utterly massive Lucene is. Just the fuzzy search part
alone required implementing code to generate code from a Russian PhD thesis
they didn't fully understand.[1] So, no matter how many cycles the JVM is
needlessly burning, Lucene just seems to advanced to write it without the
overhead. (And maybe my intuition is just wrong and the overhead is only a few
percent.)
1: [http://blog.mikemccandless.com/2011/03/lucenes-fuzzyquery-
is...](http://blog.mikemccandless.com/2011/03/lucenes-fuzzyquery-is-100-times-
faster.html)
~~~
vdfs
There is a port of Lucene to C++, CLucene[1], it's compatible with version 2.3
of Java Lucene, the project is stopped long time ago, but it's very much
stable, and works perfectly. An other port which is compatible with version 3
of java Lucene is LucenePlusPlus, but it use a lot of boost's smart pointers,
the port seems like t was automated. This port was why CLucene development
stopped, the maintainers wanted to make this new port faster by not using
smart pointers whenever possible, but that didn't happen.
1:
[http://sourceforge.net/projects/clucene](http://sourceforge.net/projects/clucene)
2:
[https://github.com/luceneplusplus/LucenePlusPlus](https://github.com/luceneplusplus/LucenePlusPlus)
~~~
MichaelGG
Oddly enough, I don't see anyone talking about benchmarks for those projects.
I found one offhand comment saying it was 2-3 faster than Java for indexing,
but only 10% better for search. No real benchmarks or such. I suppose that's
not the only reason to want a non-JVM version but it seems like a pretty major
reason and something that'd warrant headline treatment in the readme...
------
bkanber
Great article. I've rolled my own full-text search engines in the past and
it's a category of problems that I love, but even I have to admit that I'm
often astounded by Lucene's performance. The inverted index really lets you
stretch commodity hardware into pretty huge use-cases.
If you've never used ElasticSearch, I should note that that's one of ES's many
strengths -- it takes advantage of Lucene and makes deployments on commodity
hardware work really well. An ES cluster on five small EC2 instances can
handle a tremendous workload.
There is one thing about ES/Lucene that bugs me though... in the 3+ years I've
been running it in production, I still haven't been able to solve the "every
once in a while java utilizes 100% CPU until you restart the service" issue. I
suspect it has to do with Lucene's index merge operation, but no amount of
tinkering has solved the problem.
~~~
_wmd
One of the boons of Java is its remote debugging support.. you can attach a
profiler to a process when something like this happens, extract thread names &
stacks, and so on.
AFAIK you can also use the Linux 'perf trace' command on a Java process, but
probably there is some more setup involved.
------
frik
Most devs don't know that there is CLucene, a C++ port of the Java based
Lucene. It's lacking devs, so it's some versions behind. An alternative to
CLucene and also native C++ is Sphinx search (similar to CLucene what Nginx is
to Apache). Also SQLite has an official full text search addon named FTS4.
Lucene in Action 1st and 2nd edition are great books, I have them both. The
first edition was like the missing manual and it covers the API of the Lucene
1.4 with its rather rough API objects. Lucene 2.x+ API improved a lot.
~~~
vdfs
there is also LucenePlusPlus:
[https://github.com/luceneplusplus/LucenePlusPlus](https://github.com/luceneplusplus/LucenePlusPlus)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Build a Compact Cryptocurrency System Purely Based on PoS - YAYERKA
http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/330
======
josephagoss
The paper should be titled "POS Cryptocurrency with no blockchain" as that is
the most innovative idea they are talking about.
There already exist pure POS coins, Nxt through a concept called transparent
forging may be capable of resisting anything up to a 90% attack.
I'll have a read of this properly when I get home.
~~~
darkFunction
The Nxt sourcecode is really terribly written, which is a shame.
~~~
Sambdala
The developer was also very secretive about how it worked as he was scared
someone would copy it and release a clone. It was impossible for the longest
time (when the price was actually much higher than it is now) to find out how
the thing actually worked.
Much of this was because there was no white paper or documentation, and when
pressed for details beyond the most basic, the developer just told you to read
the source code once he open-sourced it.
------
jeangabriel
Unconvincing.
The proof of convergence is also not correct. The inequality at the top of p.7
(ever heard of equation numering...?) should be reversed, which effectively
establishes that convergence probability is smaller or equal to 1.
------
jsmcgd
I think most cryptocurrencies will begin to shed their blockchains. They're
beginning to get unweildly, especially for Bitcoin (17GB). There's no need to
retain a list of all transactions. You only need a consistent set of balances.
Also the energy cost of mining is beginning to become a legitimate
environmental concern. I think the new slew of proof of stake currencies are
going to give the proof of work currencies a run for their money (pardon the
pun).
~~~
kolinko
Shedding effectivity depends on the amount of unspent outputs. E.g. If there
are 1.5M transactions, and 1.2M addresses still containing money, replacing
transactions with account ballances won't give you much.
As for the environmental concern - read up about the tragedy of commons. Few
people will abandon a better protocol into a worse one if the only benefit is
ecological.
------
Hopka
PoS = Proof of Stake
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-
stake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake)
------
higherpurpose
Aren't all PoS systems a "rich get richer" system?
~~~
DennisP
"Rich get richer" would be if people with larger shares of the total money
supply tended to increase their share.
But with Peercoin, for example, everybody earns annual interest of 1% of their
holdings, paid in new coin. Let's say instead we have DennisCoin which pays a
whopping 100% and is worth $1 per coin.
If you start with 10 coins and I start with 90 coins, then after a year you'll
have 20 coins and I'll have 180. I still have nine times as much as you.
Since the number of coins has doubled, the currency value drops in half. So in
dollar terms, you still have $10 and I still have $90.
------
im3w1l
They suggest an exponentially declining price during the distribution year.
Unless I am missing something this will lead to everyone buying on the very
last day when the price is the lowest. Why would you want to create those
incentives?
~~~
kolinko
I think they say that the distribution should stop at a random, unknown and
decided in advance moment within a year.
So nobody knows when is the very last day.
Btw. The moment can be determined in a secure way (think satoshi-dice style)
~~~
im3w1l
Ok, so it is basically a complicated and slow way of holding an auction with
secret bids?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple’s holding a Mac event on October 27th: “hello again” - javiercr
http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13333830/apple-event-october-27-invite
======
exabrial
Good god, please don't don't remove any more ports.
~~~
mmagin
Well, you don't need to charge your laptop and listen to headphones at the
same time, do you?
~~~
blacksmith_tb
BT headphones, of course - perhaps they'll embrace wireless charging, too, and
get it over with. Now if the portless machine gained IP67, I might be more
willing to consider it...
~~~
exabrial
I have three driver molded IEMs for critical listening... If I'm practicing
guitar to a backing track, Bluetooth is worthless because of latency.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Double Major CS/Math or Single CS Major? - coreyja
I am going to be a Freshman in college next year attending Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. I figured out that if I just do a Single Major in Computer Science I can probably graduate in three years. To do a Double Major with Computer Science and Math it would take another year and almost $50,000. Either way I will also be getting a minor in Economics. Do people think the Double Major is worth it in terms of getting a good job out of college and differentiating myself from other people?<p>I want to work in the computer software industry. Not exactly sure on what, just yet.<p>Thanks!
======
jamesbrewer
I'll share something with you that I've only recently come to understand:
Unless you're really interested in both subjects then double majors aren't
worth the time and sweat you put into them. The fact is that the double major
MIGHT give you a slight advantage when it comes to getting an interview, but
after you have a year or two of experience under your belt your double major
won't matter much at all. Software companies want people who can get things
done, not people who can take more technical courses than any human should.
I was considering a double major in Applied Math and Computer Science but I've
recently decided to go a similar, but different route. Instead of taking all
of the Applied Math courses that I don't foresee myself using, like Partial
Differential Equations and Numerical Methods for Differential Equations, I
will be picking up a few math courses that I actually WANT to take, like
Probability Theory and Stochastic Processes.
Take courses you want to take. Take courses that will help you in the long
run. If you don't get a double major, then so what? Just go build something
awesome and you'll get a job no problem.
------
fmw
A large part of our industry is self-taught. You don't need a specific degree
to get a good job - or even a degree at all. Some bigger companies are a bit
more formal (e.g. Google, Microsoft) and prefer hiring graduates, but even
they look at merit before academic background. There are some jobs that
benefit from academic experience, e.g. being a quant on Wall Street, but math
or physics is a lot more useful for that than CS. If want to work in a field
like that (or want to keep your options open) I'd recommend doing the double
major or alternatively just major in math, while polishing your CS skills by
working on open source software and maybe a few CS courses.
Getting a job out of college or differentiating yourself shouldn't be the
prime motivator for this decision (if considered at all). Whichever way you
graduate, you will be fine. It isn't like you're trying to decide between
majoring in pottery class at a community college and going to med school.
Future employers will be a lot more impressed by the depth of your
understanding of your field than how many classes you took and the extra
curricular activities are even more important (e.g. open source, internships,
personal projects).
------
rguzman
Math is probably the hardest thing you can study. You should do it if you can
do so without hurting your grades. It will broaden your intellectual horizons.
As a practical skill, however, math ain't all that much. Learning how to write
and communicate well and how to make people like you (i.e. social skills) are
far more important in just about any industry (software included).
------
brudgers
If you have excellent academic credentials math or computer science you can
get a good job out of college - having a double major might give you a slight
edge in some settings if you have excellent credentials in both - but good
credentials in both is not as good as excellent credentials in one or the
other.
I will add that other than for personal interest a minor in the dismal science
probably won't make your resume stand pop out of the stack in the way in which
a minor in something like art, english or philosophy will - those are the
one's which make people think, "at least the interview might be interesting."
Finally, the stronger your math skills the more options your education will
provide over the course of a technical career.
Good luck.
------
impendia
I faced the opposite decision... a double major in math and CS or just the
math major, and decided to do only the math major. It was the best decision of
my college career. But I still took the upper level CS courses that interested
me! So drop the math major, but learn Galois theory (or whatever) anyway.
That said, I don't recommend graduating in three unless for economic reasons
you have to. If you can, take the fourth -- study abroad is awesome, as others
suggested -- it is also a great chance to take advanced courses in other
disciplines. I took an upper-level philosophy course, it was _hard_ and I
learned a ton.
~~~
dmazin
I'm a junior in applied math, and I'm noticing that a whole lot of my fellow
applied math majors are also computer science majors. I've also seen that lots
of the professors who let undergraduates do research look for experience with
C or R. I should be learning programming if I want to go to grad school,
shouldn't I?
------
wallflower
I would argue that social skills are more important than a double major.
Consider doing a year abroad? Good luck, some of the people you meet will
become lifelong friends.
~~~
coreyja
Ya I had thought about doing a year abroad but realized I wouldn't be able to
with doing a Double Major. I hadn't thought about how I could do a year abroad
with the Single Major and not have to worry about which classes to take.
I had thought of going to Singapore as a really cool place to study abroad.
Any other suggestions?
~~~
barry-cotter
Don't pay 50 grand to spend a year abroad. Do whatever degree you decide to do
as fast as humanly possible and then either start your working life, go to
grad school, be a bum for a year, or volunteer someplace.
Also, all of those people talking to you about social skills and college,
ignore them. Spending three or four years getting older, making mistakes and
doing stuff _will_ make your social skills better. Deliberately making your
social skills better works _much, much faster_ and can be done anytime, though
I must admit college is an easy time to do it.
~~~
NonEUCitizen
Agreed re: not paying 50K to spend a year abroad. Software developers are in
high demand -- find a job abroad so you get paid to learn a new culture.
------
jlmendezbonini
My first thought was to recommend the double major because I believe that a
stronger math background opens a lot of doors, specially in the software
industry. Now, considering your last statement and the fact that you also have
a minor in economics I'd say you're better off saving those 50K and extra
year. Getting involve in open source projects it's a much better strategy to
differentiate yourself that getting a minor/major, at least in the software
industry.
Good luck!
~~~
coreyja
I believe that I will have a strong enough background in math just with the CS
curriculum that my school offers and the double major was really just to set
me apart and in part because I enjoy math.
Do you think that your economics minor has benefited you? Are you in the
software industry?
------
mwerty
Not having a math degree will impact you later if you want to get into grad
school in math/financial math. If you are pretty sure you are going into
software, ditch the math degree.
------
sga
I'd suggest a Comp. Sci. and Statistics combination.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What would your ideal jobs board have/do?(Developers and Employers of HN) - dsinecos
Hi, I was thinking to build a remote jobs portal awhile back. I decided otherwise given all the portals already online. However I am not completely satisfied with what is on offer.<p>Just wanted HN's views on what they think would make for an ideal remote jobs board for them.<p>For instance
What kind of filters would be of use to help find relevant listings quickly?
Would some level of standardization to a job description be of help?
What all vital information about the job should be stated upfront - Like AirBnb does for the rental spaces (AC, Rooms, Pets allowed etc)?
Is newsletter the best means of learning about new job listings or there could be a more effective method?<p>My main issue while going through remote portals was the difficulty of narrowing down to relevant listings. I felt that potential deal breakers such as compatible Time-zones, minimum daily overlap or location constraints, or travel requirements are usually not provided in the listing. Even when they are, it’s not possible to filter using them. I imagine that would waste a lot of time and effort having to read through many incompatible listings. Worse, if the only way someone learns about these constraints is after sending a CV and cover letter.<p>I'm just wondering what other such problems are?<p>Also, what are the problems that employers face when posting to job boards? What's their ideal job board?
======
PaulHoule
I would say focus on remote.
The job board market is incredibly crowded and you've got to have something
very different to stick out.
~~~
dsinecos
I see, I was not certain if the problems I had with remote portals were
something others were facing as well. Since the standard seems to suggest
otherwise
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Intel’s Atom C2000 chips are bricking products, and it’s not just Cisco hit - Dotnaught
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/06/cisco_intel_decline_to_link_product_warning_to_faulty_chip/
======
jepler
Reminds me of the Sandy Bridge SATA flaw.
"The problem in the chipset was traced back to a transistor in the 3Gbps PLL
clocking tree. The aforementioned transistor has a very thin gate oxide, which
allows you to turn it on with a very low voltage. Unfortunately in this case
Intel biased the transistor with too high of a voltage, resulting in higher
than expected leakage current. Depending on the physical characteristics of
the transistor the leakage current here can increase over time which can
ultimately result in this failure on the 3Gbps ports."
[http://www.anandtech.com/show/4143/the-source-of-intels-
coug...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/4143/the-source-of-intels-cougar-point-
sata-bug)
~~~
yuhong
I wonder how many would even bother to get it replaced if it was discovered
say only a year after launch.
~~~
throwaway7767
I had one of those. The shop I bought it from refused to replace it from their
inventory, all they would do is take the motherboard, send it back and then
give me the replacement some weeks later when the RMA process was completed.
Since I needed that machine functioning, I never replaced it (the mobo had
some extra SATA ports handled by a different controller, so they kept working
and I switched to using them). I suspect a lot of people are in the same boat.
I'll never do business with that store again.
------
leonroy
_sigh_ The perils of maintaining my own data center in the basement for 'fun'
are coming to haunt me.
I have 2x C2758 Supermicro boxes running core routing services and a Synology
RS2416+ for storage - all on the affected CPU list - guess I better double
check my backups are working and allocate some funds for replacement kit in
case things go belly up!
------
adrr
If this is the related the Cisco clock signal component issue. Cisco is
handling it in a really poor way. No replacements unless its under warranty
even though its a known issue.
[http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/web/clock-
signal.html#~...](http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/web/clock-
signal.html#~faqs)
~~~
freehunter
Under warranty or anyone who has a TAC subscription. Cisco licensed their
products with a ToS that says you can't resell it, and warranties are only
valid for people who bought directly from Cisco. You also can't (effectively)
get TAC support for a resold device (what Cisco folks call "grey market").
It's not illegal to buy secondhand Cisco product, Cisco just won't support
them or let you get software upgrades without paying them a ton of money.
100%, this wording is to make sure that grey market buyers aren't covered
under the replacement. Basically anyone who bought from Cisco will be able to
get a replacement.
~~~
kuschku
How do they handle this in the EU, where 2 years warranty, even if resold, are
mandatory?
~~~
msh
That don't cover business buyers who I guess are most of Cisco buyers, only
consumers.
~~~
lostlogin
Wonder how that is applied in New Zealand where the commute guarantees act
basically requires sellers to sort problems out within "a reasonable time
frame" of sale. It's a fantastic piece of legislation.
~~~
antod
The CGA only applies to consumers and not business customers, and only applies
between the end reseller and the customer. Cisco doesn't really sell directly
to consumers.
------
yuhong
Why don't they name the customer/supplier when it is obvious when the product
is taken apart? Even with the Cisco DDR SDRAM fiasco, it wasn't that hard to
figure out that it was Micron DDR SDRAM that is at fault.
~~~
wmf
No one can afford to name and shame Intel due to potential retaliation.
~~~
ticviking
So why keep using intel
~~~
lostlogin
I'm likely revealing my ignorance, but what's the alternative?
~~~
AstralStorm
ARM, MIPS. (multiple routers use these) Custom FPGA softcore even. Maybe extra
ASICs. Cisco is big enough for that. However I suspect Intel might be cheapest
to get for performance.
------
tyingq
Not great for Intel. These Avoton Atoms were the first Atom chips with
respectable performance, so there was a chance to unsully the Atom name.
Also, I'm reasonably sure many of these were sold already permanently affixed
to the motherboard, so the fix may be worse than swapping out just a CPU.
~~~
wtallis
I don't think the processor cores in the Avoton chips were anything
impressive, but these were the first Atom chips with a lot of I/O bandwidth.
From what I can tell, all of the Avoton chips were sold in a BGA package that
required them to be soldered to the motherboard. There isn't a socketed
version of Avoton.
------
chiph
Atom models affected:
C2308, C2338, C2350, C2358, C2508, C2518, C2530, C2538, C2550, C2558, C2718,
C2730, C2738, C2750, and C2758.
How to tell what CPU your Synology NAS has:
[https://www.synology.com/en-
us/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Ge...](https://www.synology.com/en-
us/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/General/What_kind_of_CPU_does_my_NAS_have)
My 3-month old 1815+ is on the list...
------
fulafel
"slightly higher expected failure rates under certain use and time
constraints" sounds like it shouldn't be observable on the field. Do people
suspect Intel are lying or is this a storm in a teacup?
~~~
AstralStorm
Milquetoast words to stem panic. Ineffective.
------
aeturnum
Well, I guess it's time to replace my otherwise perfectly-good Synology NAS on
the double.
~~~
tyingq
This looks interesting:
[https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=119727&st...](https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=119727&start=60)
See the last couple of posts in the thread as well.
Sounds like you can get an RMA, but it's a slow process.
~~~
aeturnum
Realistically, I'm not interested in an RMA for another DS1815 that will fail,
followed by (possibly) another RMA once the problem is fixed in silicon. I'm
also very uncertain about slotting the drives into a new unit and successfully
recovering the RAID.
Instead, I'll shut down the NAS and buy a replacement from another company
(QNAP probably) and transfer the data. The other options feel too risky.
~~~
digler999
I'm guessing the CPU must be soldered to the board on these ? I have a 1815+
that is currently working, and now I'm afraid to shut it off. I wonder if the
DS2015 (not sure of #, the 10gbe model) uses this defective part ?
~~~
aeturnum
I would imagine - I haven't taken the unit apart.
~~~
digler999
probably to save money. that sucks, because even if you swapped it with
another defective one, it would be worth it if you just had to replace the CPU
every 18 months.
~~~
tyingq
Learned in another area of this post that yes, they are soldered on, but
that's Intel's choice. They only offer the CPU in a BGA (ball grid array) form
factor. There's no such thing as a BGA socket, other than some specialty test
unit things that aren't suitable for real world use.
------
kev009
I heard a rumor that something very similar was detected on upcoming Xeon
SKUs, but they will be implementing the board level workaround.
------
gens
Somewhat off-topic:
Are Cisco products worth the money ?
Personally i haven't had that much experience with their stuff, but i remember
seeing a brand new router running hot with two fans blowing in it (other
routers at the time were 2x smaller without fans). I understand that Cisco
_should_ be the de facto networking standard, but is it really worth the name
?
~~~
tracker1
Probably.. but that comes down to a lot of factors though. It also depends on
what kind of gear you're looking to buy. Everyone will try to be compatible
with Cisco's interpretation of a given standard, if you go elsewhere, it may
or may not be 100% compatible with your other equipment. Also, more IT
networking guys will be more familiar with Cisco.
That said, they are definitely more expensive than their peers. But then
again, an Escallade is more expensive than a Tahoe.
------
leonroy
ServeTheHome surveyed a bunch of affected vendors to get some more information
on the issue: [https://www.servethehome.com/intel-atom-c2000-series-bug-
qui...](https://www.servethehome.com/intel-atom-c2000-series-bug-quiet/)
And some technical specifics behind the problem:
[https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10214953&cid=53819967](https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10214953&cid=53819967)
_Can 't post to The Register, since they don't have ACs.
Anyway, the issue is damage to the LPC (low-pin-count) bus clock line. This is
a secondary bus where you hang old ISA-style devices, like the system FLASH.
If the FLASH is the only thing in there, it will mostly render the system
unbootable (so, stuff that never gets power-cycled would just keep going). But
LPC can generate interrupts, and one often hangs other crap to that bus, such
as i2c controllers for hot-swap bays, motherboard management controllers, and
other sensors. In that case, you can expect severe runtime misbehavior.
The issue is caused by "continuous degradation due to use", so repairing it is
easy, if costly: replace the motherboard with a new one under warranty (and
even if out of warranty period wherever this kind of "stealth" manufacturing
defect is not subject to warranty time period limitations, such as in Brazil).
It will "reset" the counter. This is your zero-day solution to the issue.
Depending on time-to-market for the new stepping (hardware revision) B1/C0 of
the Atom C2000, you might need an interim solution, which is the "platform-
level change", i.e. redesigned board with extra components that work around
Intel's hardware design error. As soon as you have these, you start using
these to replace any boards returned due to the defect, or start a "recall" to
preemptively replace boards.
Depending on the total cost of the board plus other components, you keep the
old boards you replaced around, and when revision B1/C0 of the Atom C2000 is
out, you BGA-replace them in a factory (about US$ 25 per board in large
volumes, if that much), maybe replace any liquid electrolytic capacitors and
other crap that ages badly, and use the boards either as new or as
refurbished, depending on your corporate/regulatory ethics. This kind of
repair almost always really resets the boards MTBF. If Intel supplies the
replacement Atoms at no charge, the cost of repair might well be far less than
the cost of the production run for boards you'd want to keep around for
warranty services, anyway.
Mind you, at 1.5 years per failure, it will be rare the legislation/contract
that forces more than one replacement... so, let's hope they don't replace a
faulty board with a brand-new virgin but-still-timebombed board. You'd have
trouble to replace it a second time if it fails after the warranty period._
------
myrandomcomment
Arista uses AMD and Intel. Their 1st switch (7124S & 7148SX) was a dual core
AMD.
------
Jaecen
This title seems incorrect. The article doesn't specify any other vendors or
products that have been directly affected by this issue.
~~~
kyrra
The title is technically correct, just annoyingly written. As someone who's
build a PFSense box using a supermicro board with one of the affected chips,
I'm definitely sad that I'll have to rip it apart to replace the parts.
~~~
ovidiup
I have the same problem: I'm using various C2000-based Supermicro boxes
running pfSense. The most cost-effective DIY, rack mountable solution for a
pfSense box was until now SYS-5018A-FTN4. Do you know if Supermicro issued a
technical bulletin about this box?
~~~
dhess
Last Friday, my OpenBSD firewall, which runs on a SYS-5018A-FTN4, mysteriously
crashed. I chalked it up to an alpha particle or something and rebooted. About
12 hours later, it failed again. This time I did some more digging. On the
console was the following message:
NMI ... going to debugger
Stopped at acpicpu_idle+0x22d: nop
ddb{0}>
I googled it and found one similar report on the OpenBSD misc mailing list
from September 2016 [1]. Interestingly, the person who reported the bug was
running the same Supermicro board as I was. The report didn't get anywhere
other than a vague suggestion that it might be heat related. These boxes run
very cool and I didn't think that was likely. I thought it might be a RAM
issue and that it was probably just a coincidence that the other person had
the same hardware as I, but now I'm inclined to think that both of us have
experienced the issue described in TFA.
Seems like I'll be looking for new firewall hardware.
[1] [https://www.mail-
archive.com/[email protected]/msg149348.html](https://www.mail-
archive.com/[email protected]/msg149348.html)
~~~
kingosticks
If you were able to reboot the box then you did not hit this issue. When you
hit this issue your chip is dead.
------
frik
That explains the issues with the C2000 family. Various Linux distros crash
randomly, and not just crash sometimes really just stop opening applications
or stop processing e.g. apt-get.
The BIOS is a piece of shit. It's buggy, the legacy-BIOS support is unstable,
the Win7-EFI and Win8-EFI modes are not good either. I patched a Win7 DVD with
Win8 files, so that I could install Win7. Now Win7 runs great and stable - but
only after I installed various Intel drivers that fixed the hardware flaws.
I am seriously looking forward to the upcoming new AMD CPU - Intel dod barely
anything the last five years, a 2011 highend CPU is almost as fast as Intel
2017 flagship, and costed a lot less back then, had less DRM or other shit
that is broken. Intel needs a proper competitor, so a comeback of AMD on the
one side, and Apple notebooks with ARM CPU are very welcome to stop Intel from
siting on their quasi monopoly chair.
~~~
wang_li
>That explains the issues with the C2000 family. Various Linux distros crash
randomly, and not just crash sometimes really just stop opening applications
or stop processing e.g. apt-get.
No it doesn't. Did you read the errata? It completely stops. There's no
weirdness. It's just dead.
~~~
AstralStorm
Random crashes are often sign of memory corruption. Sometimes broken power
supply or major interference. Not of such CPU problems.
~~~
nowaynohow
Meh, for C2000, it can be also a sign of outdated firmware. We don't get
microcode updates for SoCs in the general distribution: either your system
vendor does a good job of keeping up with firmware updates, or you are
screwed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared - uptown
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/15/toxic-water-soaring-lead-levels-in-childrens-blood-create-state-of-emergency-in-flint-mich/
======
rickdale
I'm glad to see this on HN. Flint is often a forgot about place in the world.
I grew up there and now live outside of Flint. My dad was murdered there.
But I always think Flint is prime for opportunity. The people need basic
essentials, water, food, shelter. But the infrastructure to build factories is
there. Power, train lines, the whole deal. It's really a shame. The sad part
is, the people are still hell bent on supporting the companies that destroyed
the town. Michigan in general is like this, its why they don't allow Tesla
vehicle sales.
Growing up my family owned a junkyard and the Flint river ran behind it. It
was disgusting. Some of the guys would wade through it on their way two and
from work. It was a shortcut, but you had to be a true animal to go that
route.
~~~
andrelaszlo
I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow
streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for
words:
[https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2](https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2)
[https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2](https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2)
[https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2](https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2)
[https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32](https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32)
[https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92](https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92)
[https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak](https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak) (memorial
garden?)
[https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut](https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut)
[https://goo.gl/maps/8Wx2gQ6z8up](https://goo.gl/maps/8Wx2gQ6z8up)
[https://goo.gl/maps/nAY5Kb73PkM2](https://goo.gl/maps/nAY5Kb73PkM2)
[https://goo.gl/maps/kTqzqGXQqmF2](https://goo.gl/maps/kTqzqGXQqmF2)
[https://goo.gl/maps/xWkvXRdACWR2](https://goo.gl/maps/xWkvXRdACWR2)
As a Swede, I guess I didn't really realize how bad things really got in parts
of the US. The last 50 years is just one crisis after another for this place:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint%2C_Michigan#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint%2C_Michigan#History)
To me, there's something really heartbreaking about abandoned and decaying
houses. It's all too easy to imagine the hopes and dreams that didn't play out
they way they should have.
~~~
Lawtonfogle
>I'm at a loss for words:
Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different
from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.
~~~
scott_karana
In [https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92](https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92), the
first one I clicked, there is decay and overgrowth everywhere.
The death of the city's economy is completely evident in that view alone...
~~~
kbenson
Because a building burned down? It would be nice if they fenced it off, so it
shows a lack of resources, but I'm not sure that view really indicates what
you say it does.
~~~
scott_karana
Maybe that's normal looking in the rust belt, but it's unfamiliar looking to
me as well. (Can't speak for the Swede, but I suspect they're surprised for
similar reasons)
There is:
1) A burned down building (which has been in that state for some time)
2) Boarded up storefronts
3) Plants growing over the unused fences, which themselves are starting to
fall over
4) The lots behind the fences look to have been empty for decades
5) Visibly aging concrete
6) Crumbling sidewalks with plants coming up between the tiles
7) at least 3 of the 5 vehicles are from no newer than ~1998
Combine that with the overcast weather, and the bleak color palette of the
remaining buildings, and it looks pretty depressing. :(
Maybe it's not representative: maybe on a sunnier day, the greenery would make
it look lush and liveable, but as it stands it's definitely an unfortunate
looking Street View, that one...
~~~
kbenson
I'm not saying it doesn't show signs of a neglected area, I just think you're
reading too much into certain aspects which may be explained through the area
in which the picture was taken.
I'm not sure how long the building has been in that state, but I would imagine
less than a year from the vegetation, but that's hard to judge if it all dies
in winter. Then again, vegetation usually grows very quickly in those areas.
That said, small municipalities move slower, they have less leeway in the
budget to deal with unforeseen circumstances.
A lot of what you're stated seems to indicate that you see the open areas here
as a sign of neglect or failure. Often in rural areas, building are much more
spread out unless they are are towards the town center. There's no reason to
build next to someone if you can have a lot or two between you and them. As a
city expands, these are naturally filled in as sparse building pushes farther
out from the town center and some people don't want to be that far out.
As for the sidewalks and concrete, areas with wet winters that continually
fluctuate between freezing and non-freezing temperatures are particularly bad
on brick and concrete buildings. The continual expansion of the water when it
turns into ice and back into water quickly destroys concrete in these areas.
Michigan is known to be particularly bad.
In truth, looking down GlenWood Ave from that picture looks fairly pleasant to
me. This could easily be a few hundred feet in either of the towns my parents
are from in rural Wisconsin, and much of those towns looks fairly pleasant, if
extremely spread out, to my eyes.
For comparison, here's another random spot I found by just choosing a place in
google maps and zooming in[1]. Every town has some run-down areas if it's old
enough, but having a run-down area doesn't necessarily mean the economy is
dead (but I'm not disputing that the economy is likely bad, just that the
picture is more indicative of an area than a situation).
1:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0188356,-83.6795166,3a,75y,1...](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0188356,-83.6795166,3a,75y,131.39h,82.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_NmqxHmgj0Cj7koki6br_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
~~~
scott_karana
I could absolutely be wrong about some of those! As I said, I'm not familiar
with the Rust Belt. My view is almost exclusively superficial.
------
russdill
The one thing I don't see is the lead levels of the water supply. Doesn't the
EPA have limits on that and isn't it an easy thing to test?
It is true that different water supplies will have different levels of
contaminants (lead, arsenic, etc) but can all be within EPA limits. Switching
to a water supply with a higher level of contamination will increase exposure.
The medical study seems to look at the percentage of children below 5g/dL
before and after the switch. It goes from 2% to 4%. So with the old water
supply, a certain percentage of children were already being exposed to
elevated levels of lead. Switching to a water source with higher lead levels
will push more children who are being exposed to lead through other sources to
above the 5g/dL mark. However, this would seem to indicate that the primary
source of lead for these children above 5g/dL is something other than the
water.
~~~
russdill
Hmm...reading further the problem doesn't seem to be one handled well by EPA
standards. The new water supply is more corrosive than the old water supply,
so in poorer neighborhoods with lead piping, more lead (sometimes
significantly) is being leeched from the pipes than before.
~~~
Tossrock
Why are they using lead pipes? I understand that they may have a legacy system
put in place before the dangers of lead were fully understood, but when your
water distribution system is literally made of poison, I don't understand how
replacing it could be back-burnered.
~~~
mturmon
In theory, you are right. In practice, replacement of legacy lead pipes is
more complex.
Briefly: replacing only some of the pipes can cause lead levels to increase
due to (1) disturbance of nearby lead pipes during replacement; (2) ongoing
galvanic effects near the replacement; (3) interfaces between the utility's
new lead-free lines and a customer's old lead lines, if the customer does not
choose to replace at the same time the utility does.
Point (3) is especially troublesome. Even if the utility replaces all its lead
pipes, things could get much worse for customers that don't follow suit right
away.
For (much) more:
[http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/tox...](http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/toxic-
taps/story/toxic-taps-lead-is-still-the-problem/)
All these issues are just about pipe replacement, as distinct from higher lead
levels due to pH changes or use of chloramines rather than chlorine (which was
a surprise, see
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817707/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817707/)).
~~~
Tossrock
Thanks, this was really informative. Makes me glad I live in California.
------
yummyfajitas
So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now
children are poisoned. The city apparently now expects the rest of the country
to pick up the tab for the cleanup of their mess.
At some point it should become necessary to recognize and acknowledge that
self-government has failed and must end. I'd suggest some form of a city death
penalty - declare the city dead and give the locals a one-time offer of
relocation assistance to an approved list of better places. The city
government, and anyone who remains, are officially on their own.
We've known Flint (and many similar cities) are doomed for decades. Why do we
keep them alive as zombies rather than just help the humans and let the
municipalities die?
~~~
tptacek
The country _will_ pick up the tab for Flint, because that is how the country
works. The expectation that Michigan and then the federal government will
provide assistance isn't something Flint invented: it's part of the deal.
_Not enough_ money flows to places like Flint. Michigan just barely ekes out
a return on dollars remitted to the IRS; they're in the bottom quartile of
benecifiaries. Meanwhile, for every $1 a Floridian pays in taxes, they receive
$4.50.
The historical reason Michigan is such a low drag on the USG has a lot to do
with the businesses Flint enabled.
This is such a straightforward point to make, and so easily Googlable, that I
feel like you have to have known it already. Some of your acerbic comments are
interesting because they bring a perspective to these discussions that I (for
one) wouldn't think to consider. This was not one of those comments.
~~~
yummyfajitas
Reread what I wrote. I didn't suggest we shouldn't help the _humans_ in Flint.
I suggested we should do so in a way that solves the problem _for the humans_
once and for all.
The comparison to Florida is silly. Florida gets a lot of money that a) is for
the national good (naval bases) and b) follows humans around (SS/medicare).
The fact that humans work in NY and retire to Florida doesn't mean that we
somehow owe Flint an infinite stream of subsidies.
I do oppose the variety of unfair subsidies that Florida does get, e.g.
bailouts after hurricanes predictably destroy cheaply made houses.
~~~
tptacek
No, once again, Florida's figure does not come from military spending.
~~~
yummyfajitas
I don't know where you are getting the data. Google suggests to me that
Florida gets $2.02 per dollar invested.
[https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-
the...](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-
government/2700/#methodology)
In any case, the specific source of federal largess to Florida is not relevant
to my main point. Namely, help the humans rather than the municipality.
In much the same way, if it were a for-profit corporation that was failing
horribly, I'd suggest giving the former human workers limited assistance
designed to get them back into the workforce and letting the corporation die.
That would be true even if other corporations get corporate welfare (which I
also oppose).
Since you seem to favor the municipality over the humans, one might ask why?
To avoid status quo bias, lets ask why we shouldn't shift other programs to
favor municipalities over humans, e.g. social security goes to the state where
work was performed rather than the individual human who did the work?
------
a3n
> Through continued demonstrations by Flint residents and mounting scientific
> evidence of the water’s toxins, city and state officials offered various
> solutions — from asking residents to boil their water to providing them with
> water filters — in an attempt to work around the need to reconnect to the
> Detroit system.
Can you boil lead out of water, or does it just become more concentrated?
~~~
alexbock
Distillation would essentially be doing the reverse, "boiling the water out of
the lead", and that would work. But no amount of boiling in a open pot is
going to remove lead from your water.
It's hard to tell from the article, but the reference to boiling water might
have been in response to the other issue mentioned, trihalomethanes in the
water. As dissolved gases, boiling should help drive them out.
(side note: a trihalomethane is more commonly referred to as a haloform, which
is the family chloroform comes from)
~~~
darkr
Yup. Distillation should remove any heavy metal elements. It's not ideal to
consume long term, as it removes most useful minerals and results in a
hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming
lead.
~~~
alexbock
When you say that boiling results in acidic water, are you referring to the
fact that pH-neutral water would be slightly more acidic than your (slightly
basic) blood, or is this about dissolved CO2 or something else entirely?
~~~
darkr
It's due to absorbing C02 from the air whilst in gaseous form, which is then
subsequently absorbed into the blood stream after consumption.
------
nashashmi
I just took a look at the Map of Michigan. I realized after zooming into Flint
to try to understand where the water was coming from that Michigan has many,
many bodies of water scattered all around the place. Plus they are right next
to the world's biggest lakes.
And yet they never took care of their water supply? The one state with so much
fresh water has little regulation on keeping water protected.
I keep wondering why its been prophecied that the world in the end will wage
war over water, not oil. And now I am beginning to understand.
~~~
maxerickson
They are constructing a supply that will tap Lake Huron.
Lakes Superior, Michigan and Huron are not especially polluted. The little
inland lakes vary, but they end up having a lot of trouble with residential
inputs (fertilizer runoff and (historically) sewage).
~~~
kdevrou
They already had a supply from Huron before. They disconnected from it about a
year ago. Now they are hooked back up to Huron but much of the damage has
already been done.
~~~
maxerickson
They switched away from and back to Detroit as a water supplier. The switch to
drawing water from Huron is in progress:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karegnondi_Water_Authority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karegnondi_Water_Authority)
------
ionforce
What institutional failure led to this? It seems like this has been a long
time coming. Why has the leadership of the area allowed this to happen?
~~~
paulmd
Flint's basically bankrupt and the state wants to delay the inevitable, so
they installed an "emergency manager" with all the powers of mayor+city
council (but accountable only to the governor). The emergency manager wanted
to save money by using a local source of water instead of paying Detroit for
water. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality basically knew that
the water was so acidic that it would eat through the biofilm on the pipes and
start leeching lead (and discussed as much in emails), and gave incorrect
advice on measurements to the city to try and hide the problem.
[http://www.eclectablog.com/2015/10/interview-flint-mayor-
day...](http://www.eclectablog.com/2015/10/interview-flint-mayor-dayne-
walling-talks-about-flints-water-crisis-emergency-managers-and-the-state-
government.html)
[http://michiganradio.org/post/whos-blame-flints-water-
crisis...](http://michiganradio.org/post/whos-blame-flints-water-crisis-
virginia-tech-researcher-points-finger-mdeq)
[http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/emails_sho...](http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/emails_show_feds_told_state_of.html)
------
golergka
The fact that this kind of isse will generate publicity after just a year, and
that citizens will actually care enough to fight for their rights, and that
mayor will feel fallout because of that — it makes me feel so jealous of US.
Americans that cry about how the system "doesn't work" really don't have a
clue about how this would turn out in other countries.
~~~
Kristine1975
If the system truly worked, there would be no children with lead poisoning in
the first place. That there are places on earth where things are worse doesn't
change that.
~~~
golergka
I think that we can agree that the extent to which the system "works" is not a
boolean value.
------
artlogic
If you are interested in a detailed breakdown of everything that's been
happening over the past year or so, I would suggest reading Michigan Radio's
excellent coverage: [http://michiganradio.org/term/flint-
water](http://michiganradio.org/term/flint-water)
Full disclosure: my wife works as a reporter Michigan Radio, but generally
doesn't cover Flint.
------
jhallenworld
I've been trying to understand what the heck happened, since pH management has
been standard part of water treatment forever. I mean did they not bother to
consult with any water supply engineers first?
It all looks like a game between Emergency Managers appointed by the governor
to see who can save the most money fastest.
[http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/10/24/emergenc...](http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/10/24/emergency-
manager-law-blame-flint-water-crisis/74048854/)
------
jostmey
Someday Silicon Valley may be left in the same disarray and disrepair. Jobs
can be outsourced and bright people lured away to work on new things.
~~~
paulmd
Tech is somewhat harder to automate than manufacturing, at least.
Silicon Valley also has a bunch of top-shelf universities nearby, which are a
massive boost to local economies. The University of Michigan similarly boosts
Ann Arbor's economy.
------
cakes
This story has been building up and up for a while now, Michigan Radio has
several stories/reports/etc.
[http://michiganradio.org/term/flint-
water#stream/0](http://michiganradio.org/term/flint-water#stream/0)
------
usefulcat
Was looking at a map of Flint and noticed that the City of Flint Water Plant
is _right next to_ three metal scrap yards.
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B003'25.2%22N+83%C2%...](https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B003'25.2%22N+83%C2%B040'14.8%22W/@43.056993,-83.6729557,751m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0)
~~~
paulmd
It's more that Flint is an industrial town and Dow has been polluting the
river for 120 years.
It's also not direct pollution per se, it's that the river is so polluted that
it's crazy acidic and it's corroding lead out of the pipes. A compounding
factor is that it's got all kinds of funky bacteria stuff going on, which can
also accelerate the corrosion process.
------
rayiner
What led to this particular situation was apparently rate hikes in the Detroit
water system, which caused Flint to switch to using the Flint river as their
water source last year. Beyond that, water systems all over the country are in
bad shape. Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too
low and there is a huge under-investment in water
systems:[http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/drinking-
water/...](http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/drinking-
water/overview)
~~~
foolrush
Subtly attempts to frame the issue as public controlled water.
A counterpoint might be that the companies with a vested interest in
privitising water supplies have lobbied to choke out the public systems of
funding.
Perhaps instead of cutting deplorable tax breaks for big business, it would be
more prudent to augment the public funds to prevent your citizens from getting
lead poisoning?
[http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2015/jan/30/wa...](http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2015/jan/30/water-privatisation-worldwide-failure-lagos-world-
bank)
~~~
rayiner
What big businesses are you talking about? Water in almost every U.S. city is
provided by a municipal utility. E.g. in Flint, it's the Utilities Department:
[https://www.cityofflint.com/public-works/water-service-
cente...](https://www.cityofflint.com/public-works/water-service-center).
Water rates are set by the city, and are just too low to cover modernization
of the systems. Both the ASCE and the EPA have reported that investment in
water systems is a fraction of what is required:
[http://geospatial.blogs.com/geospatial/2011/12/asce-
report-o...](http://geospatial.blogs.com/geospatial/2011/12/asce-report-on-
the-impact-of-under-investment-in-water-infrastructure-in-the-us-.html).
~~~
sophacles
Here's a big water utility company: [http://www.amwater.com/about-us/our-
states.html](http://www.amwater.com/about-us/our-states.html)
It's pretty common for water supply to be treated as a utility, with municipal
monopolies provided - like cable or electricity.
~~~
rayiner
Only 15% of water utilities are private companies:
[http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Po-Re/Privatization-of-
Wate...](http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Po-Re/Privatization-of-Water-
Management.html). And even, it's usually an arrangement where the city
contracts with a private company to operate its water system. The companies
don't own the system and prices are set by the municipalities.
------
elorant
The article failed to explain how the river got so toxic in the first place.
~~~
nooron
Problem is the pipes, not the river per se. When they switched water, they
didn't add an anti corrosive agent:
[http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/11/13/af...](http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/11/13/after-
flint-water-crisis-families-file-lawsuit/75744376/)
~~~
phkahler
>> Problem is the pipes, not the river per se. When they switched water, they
didn't add an anti corrosive agent
Which means there is now corrosion in a lot of old lead pipes, which means the
lead will continue to get into the water for a while. IIRC at least a few
months after they switched back and possibly longer.
------
cowardlydragon
So... Flint is the new libertarian dreamland where no regulation exists?
------
whitehat2k9
Hmm, so in addition to their existing problems with acute lead poisoning, they
now have to deal with chronic lead poisoning.
------
purephase
Does anyone know the extent that the surrounding townships would be impacted
by this? My parents live just outside of Flint, but the article only mentions
that Flint is impacted.
~~~
maxerickson
They could be. They should know if they buy water from Flint or not. If they
don't buy water from Flint, without having looked into it, I would not expect
the same pollution in ground water and the river.
It also seems to be the case that the lead is coming from residential pipes:
[http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-spotlight-
Flint_wa...](http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-spotlight-
Flint_water_FAQs_500946_7.pdf)
------
JuanaMango
If what they say about lead levels decreasing IQ is true not there is not much
left for Flint to do.
------
paulajohnson
So in ten years time someone is going to kill someone and blame it on the lead
he was poisoned with when he was a kid. What would the just result be in such
a case?
~~~
vkou
No sweat off the backs of the officials responsible for this disaster.
------
EliRivers
I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals"
believe the water supply is heaving with lead. The ridiculous political bun-
fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease.
~~~
anon1385
The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US.
Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the
development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently
libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against
regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned.
When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comments arguing that it
isn't really as toxic as claimed.
~~~
cryoshon
But... to argue lead is nontoxic is counterfactual!
~~~
fixermark
Oh, definitely.
But being able to argue it isn't toxic enough to necessitate a change in
behavior is what makes a politician's career. Everything is toxic in the right
quantity. ;)
------
twoquestions
Why should the Michigan state government care about this? Flint is a bunch of
liberals, and the State government is Republican.
The Snyder administration will certainly pay a heavy price for "giving free
handouts" to the Democrats in Flint, all to remedy a problem that many
Republicans don't believe exists.
EDIT: wording
~~~
TheGirondin
What is more toxic: Flint's water or this comment?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why people say NO when you ask for informational interviews or mentoring - BrookeTAllen
http://www.noshortageofwork.com/pages/499
======
BrookeTAllen
I like helping people a lot but not so much if they are only trying to help
themselves.
In 2004 I changed how I hire people and you folks discussed that (see:
[http://www.slideshare.net/BrookeAllen1/brooke-allen-has-a-
be...](http://www.slideshare.net/BrookeAllen1/brooke-allen-has-a-better-way-
of-hiringP))
Since then I've become more public about how the job market is broken and how
it might get fixed.
A year ago when I retired from Wall Street finding ways of improving the
market for work has become a major passion project of mine. I have connected
with many people and helped them change how they hire or helped them with an
article or blog post they are writing.
But one downside is that I often get requests from total strangers to help
them get a job and - to be frank - I find these requests a imposition.
I did not understand why I felt this way until reading this piece by Nick
Corcodilos.
Brooke (BrookeAllen.com)
~~~
jpg0rd0n
I agree that unsolicited requests are an imposition because there is no
exchange of value. Whether or not it is a veiled job interview, for someone to
ask for advice/time from someone else without even trying to first develop
some kind of relationship is asking for something of value without offering
anything in return.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you automate your server provisioning? - ryanmccullagh
My goal is to fully automate spinning up servers/environments, with, for example, a MySQL installation with users/data. I would like to automate this provisioning via a script or some sort.<p>I know docker can do this, but I need to be able to run this on bare metal. Is saltstack the way to go, or Chef, or Puppet?<p>I would prefer not to run a daemon on the target machine.
======
mtmail
You already mention several [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-
source_conf...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-
source_configuration_management_software)
Have a look at ansible, it works agentless (no daemon on target machine).
------
karmakaze
I've used ansible for bootstrapping new nodes and Chef recipes to converge the
node to desired state. This pattern worked well enough for both bare metal and
EC2 instances. We just ran separate Chef servers in each.
------
z3t4
I use a Node.JS script. JavaScrip/Node is really good at dealing with text IO,
and async operations. I for example use the SSH module to SSH into a server to
run apt and edit configuration files.
------
ryanmccullagh
I started writing some scripts that will execute scp to copy over some shell
scripts and then a script to ssh into it and execute one command. These
commands run apt
------
smt88
RDS + Elastic Beanstalk, because I am extremely lazy and like GUIs
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on? - jakemor
I never understood this. They indicate when your mic, location and even mobile hotspot is on, but there is no indication of whether your camera is on. Apps with permission to use the camera can use it without you knowing!
======
wincy
I remember reading that the Japanese iOS makes a loud shutter noise when you
take a picture that can’t be silenced.
It’s actually apparently a Japanese law.
[https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-turn-the-camera-shutter-
sound...](https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-turn-the-camera-shutter-sound-off-on-
a-Japanese-iPhone)
~~~
seltzered_
I believe this was also a feature on us versions of iOS years ago. Some
developers worked around it in “stealth camera” apps by playing the inverse of
the camera shutter soundwave to silence it.
~~~
gitgud
Although it's illegal, that's a brilliant hack. It's also a good reminder that
even the simplest systems, which are vetted by dozens of professionals, could
be easily defeated...
------
lumberingjack
I just want a phone that has a manual physical toggle button that kills the
power to the cameras if any apps need the camera they can just notify me to
please toggle that switch. One of the nightly build that I put on my note 8
turns on the edge screen notification flash when the cameras are on every once
in awhile I see that thing on no reason.
~~~
cyphar
The Librem 5 will have 3 hardware kill switches -- for WiFi, Cellular, and
Camera/Microphone.
~~~
beatgammit
This is perhaps the most compelling reason to get that phone. Once it
launches, I'll be watching reviews to see if it's usable as a phone.
It's a really exciting project and I hope other phone manufacturers integrate
some of those ideas.
~~~
cyphar
I pulled the trigger, and I'll be sure to blog about it once I've used it for
a while. I will admit I was a little worried how choppy the demo video of the
dev-kit looks[1], but we'll see how it works once I get it.
I'm a little bit worried that their "Chatty" messaging app[2] (which is what
the default Matrix client will be) is based on libpurple -- which is a library
that has a pretty gnarly history of security issues[3]. It is using a plugin
that the Matrix developers wrote[4], which I trust more -- but I'm still
queasy about it.
I'm currently working on a Matrix-Signal bridge so I can continue using Signal
once I switch to it (it won't have a native Signal app out-of-the-gate and I
don't really want to run an Android emulator).
[1]: [https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-
mi...](https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-minor-
shipping-adjustment/) [2]:
[https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty](https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty)
[3]: [https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qkve5v/secure-
mes...](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qkve5v/secure-messaging-
might-not-be-so-secure-otr-libpurple) [4]: [https://github.com/matrix-
org/purple-matrix](https://github.com/matrix-org/purple-matrix)
------
iscrewyou
I’ve wondered this too. But maybe ux is more important in this case than
privacy. There’s a red or blue bar that shows up when mic or location or
hotspot is on. I’d hate to see that when my full screen camera app opens. But
I do value privacy. So another solution would be what Mac has implemented. A
led shows up whenever the camera is on. But I’ve seen reports and articles
where it’s possible to fire the Mac camera and shut it off quickly before the
LED has time to kick on. (I cover my Mac camera with a post-it).
I don’t know what the solution could be. Maybe a vibration of a specific kind?
I think Apple should address this. It’s a good next step in terms of privacy
focused Apple and it’s something that will be rewarding for the user to see
that whenever the camera opens, something happens. Good PR points for Apple. A
win for the user.
~~~
amenod
> But I’ve seen reports and articles where it’s possible to fire the Mac
> camera and shut it off quickly before the LED has time to kick on.
It should be trivial to delay LED's 'off' if it happens too soon after the
'on' signal.
There are many possible solutions if designers actually care about users'
privacy.
~~~
Pulcinella
I wonder if it would be possible to wire the LED and camera module in series
so that the only way for the camera to receive power is if the LED light is
also on?
~~~
jsjohnst
That’s actually what happens on current (as in since 2010) Apple laptops. The
camera sensor can not receive power without the LED being on. Pre-2010, the
design had a flaw and all the stories about “hacking the camera” that are
legit, are about the pre-2010 design.
~~~
etaoins
Presumably this would interact poorly with FaceID’s attention aware features.
iOS periodically activates the front facing camera while unlocked to determine
if you’re paying attention to the phone. This influences automatic screen
dimming and alert noises.
------
nonce_account
Disclosure of bias: I work for Microsoft. I don't speak for my employer.
Windows Phone 7's chassis specification mandated that manufacturers include a
hardwired LED that lit up when the front-facing camera is active. But Android
did not mandate this (or much of anything), and so the Qualcomm Reference
Device (QRD) didn't implement it. The QRD is important, because many low-end
manufacturers bootstrap their product design with a QRD and make the minimum
number of changes to arrive at a viable product. But manufacturers needed to
do extra engineering work and add to the BOM to make a Windows version of
their cheap Android products.
It eventually became clear that consumers weren't willing to pay any premium
for Windows Phone's higher standard for privacy. (I'm not claiming this was
the _only_ cause of WP's failure in the market -- just one small contributing
factor.) So we intentionally pared down later versions of the chassis
specification to minimize the differences between it and the QRD, including
removing this privacy LED requirement. In theory, this would have allowed
manufacturers to churn out cheap Windows Phones as easily as they were
churning out cheap Android Phones.
Of course in hindsight, that was all too little, too late. Android won the
cheap phone market for a huge number of reasons, one tiny factor of which is
that it didn't require a privacy LED. The moral I took away? If your products
cost more because they're safer, your marketing needs to ensure you get credit
for that. Safety isn't obvious to someone glancing at your product; you need
to spell all it out for the consumer. And if you can't find a way to
articulate it, then reconsider whether you _really_ need that safety feature.
------
llaappqq
The indicator indicates background activities. Eg. If you are using Google
maps for navigation, the bar will show when you switch away from Google maps.
But when you switch back, now it's happening in the foreground and the
indicator disappears.
Camera can only be accessed by the foreground app.
------
nsx147
If the camera is on it has to be shown on the screen right?
~~~
tcmb
Maybe not what OP had in mind, but there's also the issue of taking hidden
photos of others. If you're holding your phone in my direction, I don't see
what's on the screen, but an LED on the back could let me know that your
camera is on.
~~~
jrockway
Given that everyone uses cases, I doubt the LED would be visible.
People are always filming you in public, in the hopes of being the next viral
Instagram sensation.
------
Tepix
This may be controversial, but given the potential abuse I think there should
be a mandatory blinking orange LED next to every camera (both front and back).
If you make sure that all smartphone models use the same blinking frequency
(perhaps 3Hz) and LED color then people would quickly learn what it means.
------
RyanShook
Can the iPhone camera be accessed by applications without displaying some kind
of viewfinder?
~~~
mariopt
Yes, [https://youtu.be/jTm4fjx_eZ0?t=532](https://youtu.be/jTm4fjx_eZ0?t=532)
this is done with React Native. I don't think nothing prevents you from
rendering the camera UI preview component with an opacity of 0.0
I guess the main problem that no smartphone manufacturer wants to address is:
People who take photos without permission to other people. It would be
reasonable to enforce a law on all manufactures to add visible LED when the
phone camera is being used, in my opinion at least.
~~~
GhostVII
I don't think that would be reasonable. Unless there is a significant safety
issue or privacy issue that would be solved, I don't think the government
should force manufacturers to add features to their phones, seems like a
pretty extreme overreach. Any LED added could easily be removed or covered up
in a few seconds, so I don't see how it changes anything.
~~~
nitrogen
The ability to defeat a safety or privacy measure doesn't mean it shouldn't be
implemented. People sometimes buckle their seatbelts behind them instead of
wearing them, but seatbelts are still mandatory in most places.
There are many different instances where someone would want an indicator for a
camera and would not block the LED: detecting apps that take pictures without
being asked, knowing whether the person across the street is taking a photo or
a selfie so you don't accidentally photo bomb, random people taking photos who
didn't block the LED (of all the camcorders with LEDs back in the day, how
many actually had the LED covered?), etc.
~~~
GhostVII
The difference between this and seatbelts is that with the LED, you are trying
to prevent someone from maliciously using the camera, while with seatbelts you
are trying to give everyone the ability to be safe should they choose to do
so.
And regardless, the ability to defeat it should be a factor in determining
whether or not it is worth regulating, even if it isn't the sole factor. The
combination of having the LED both easy to defeat, and having very limited
usefulness, make it not worth regulating.
------
flingo
This likely hasn't been made clear to them with a terrifying example yet.
Guessing they currently don't have a hardware LED because it might freak
people out how much the camera is actually on. Likely no onscreen indicator
for the same reason. If they were going to make this change, they'd have to
weigh the benefits of making this change against spooking users who have no
idea why their bank app is using their front facing camera.
------
TomMarius
Is there an indicator on any other phone? Certainly none on my Samsung.
~~~
snailmailman
I don’t know of any phones with an indicator - but on the other hand I’ve
never seen a laptop that _doesnt_ have an indicator.
~~~
sigjuice
Also, I have seen many people with tape over their laptop’s camera. I have
never seen a phone with tape.
------
dontbenebby
Japan mandates a shutter sound due to issues with involuntary pornography:
[https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/30/japans-noisy-iphone-
prob...](https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/30/japans-noisy-iphone-problem/)
I'm surprised not even a simple LED is present though. IIRC Macbooks LEDs are
wired such that you can't use them without the current flowing through the LED
------
switch007
I hadn't considered this. I'm going to disable all camera permissions. I'll be
less lazy in the future (e.g. with WhatsApp, instead of taking a photo in app,
I'll use the Camera app then switch back)
------
s15624
[https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avcap...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avcapturesession/interruptionreason/videodevicenotavailableinbackground)
The camera cannot be accessed without displaying it on the screen.
~~~
lalos
That API says that the camera cannot be accessed when the app is not active
(in the background). Like when you receive a call, etc.
------
oyebenny
If I told you the light indictor can be switched off anyway by Apple?
------
jboles
It’s not the Apple way to make concessions to security through hardware means.
The hardware must remain a perfect uninterrupted glass slab, and any
protections would likely be made in software.
Edit: downvoter is welcome to point me to any model of Apple hardware that has
a hardware radio switch or a hardware cover for the camera lens? The secure
enclave is maybe the one exception to the above rule, but is highly software-
supported.
~~~
scarface74
The microphone is physically disconnected from power when you close the lid.
Also another poster said that the camera can’t get power without power going
through the led indicator first.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Adobe Launches Acrobat.com, Acrobat 9 (With Flash) - kimboslice
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/01/adobe-combines-online-word-processing-file-sharing-and-meetings-with-the-launch-of-acrobatcom/
======
pxlpshr
I've used Acrobat Connnect a few times... and while it's a lot better than
Citrix's GoToMeeting, both lack a very usable/friendly whiteboard solution.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Decades after Chernobyl disaster, engineers slide high-tech shelter over reactor - d_e_solomon
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/11/decades-after-chernobyl-disaster-engineers-slide-high-tech-shelter-over-reactor/
======
Tempest1981
30 years later, what a project: "More than 40 governments have contributed to
funding its construction (€1.5 billion), which involved 10,000 workers."
------
d_e_solomon
I was really impressed that it was slid on rails into place instead of being
assembled in place in sections.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Turn any link into a suspicious-looking one - defaultnamehere
https://verylegit.link
======
rjbrock
A similar site has been around for a long time:
[http://www.shadyurl.com/](http://www.shadyurl.com/)
example: google.com -> [http://www.5z8.info/dogs-being-
eaten_x2r3rq_5waystokillwitha...](http://www.5z8.info/dogs-being-
eaten_x2r3rq_5waystokillwithamelon)
~~~
mlacher
I made shadyurl! The subdomain feature in this is great. Also cool it has an
API. Though with the amount shadyurl was abused by phishers, I'd be interested
to see how long an API stays viable.
~~~
carbocation
It's kind of wild that "SHADY URL" is something phishers want to use. But, in
the end I guess it's all about finding a domain that isn't tied to them?
~~~
eternauta3k
Similar to 419 scams, shady links/propositions are a good way to select the
people who are easy to trick.
~~~
mlacher
Yeah that's my best guess. I was shocked how much it was used for scams. Might
also be possible the link is so suspicious looking it's actually more
intriguing to click.
------
OJFord
If I were trying to send someone to my nefarious website, I'd definitely now
wrap the link in this, so that the savvy viewer would think it's a harmless
verylegit.link...
~~~
sleepychu
You already have that same deal with bit.ly and friends.
[http://bit.ly/2saifoB](http://bit.ly/2saifoB)
[http://bit.ly/2t5xNhB](http://bit.ly/2t5xNhB)
Which is safe and wonderful and which is dangerous?
~~~
eganist
For the uninitiated: just add a + to the end of any bitly URL to expose
metrics and preview the destination.
[http://bit.ly/2saifoB+](http://bit.ly/2saifoB+)
[http://bit.ly/2t5xNhB+](http://bit.ly/2t5xNhB+)
~~~
sleepychu
This is neat, I hadn't seen it before.
------
nandhp
Is there any way to get SSL error messages in Firefox?
[https://irc.verylegit.link/0x8c*download()194mobiads(windows...](https://irc.verylegit.link/0x8c*download\(\)194mobiads\(windows8!downloader.sh.exe)
is supposed to redirect to Facebook, and it does if you use HTTP. However,
over HTTPS Firefox just gives me a very generic "Secure Connection Failed"
message. (Chrome is rather more helpful, giving me "ERR_CONNECTION_CLOSED".)
~~~
Buge
Where did you get that link? Was it one of the sample links? I don't think
those are real links. But if you type in
[https://facebook.com](https://facebook.com) and click "Make it look dodgy" it
will give you a real link.
[http://hey.look.a.verylegit.link/malware-425iphone)ip-
steale...](http://hey.look.a.verylegit.link/malware-425iphone\)ip-
stealer)(.docx.html.rar
Edit: Although it appears Hacker News decided to mangle this link that I
posted. Apparently it's not happy about mismatched parenthesis in links. Why
HN wants to try to match parenthesis in links... that's a good question.
~~~
funnyfacts365
Markdown uses parenthesis? HN software parses markdown in comments to format
them?
~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
HN doesn't use Markdown, it has its own eccentric and much more limited markup
system.
------
BenjiWiebe
The suffixes should be exe, com, js, hta, vbs, and so on, for extra evilness.
~~~
troymc
pdf and dmg are already pretty scary.
~~~
josteink
Considering most people in the world use Windows, dmg is pretty much
irrelevant. They can only be opened/unpacked on Macs, so even if it contains a
evil payload you won't ever got to it on Windows or Linux.
Exe-files has much bigger impact and can be run through emulation on non-
Windows systems.
I'd say exe is a much better choice.
~~~
falcor84
My mental pronunciation mechanism cannot stop reading "dmg" as "damage"
~~~
dEnigma
Same for me. I guess that's what decades of playing with and reading about
video games do to your brain ^^
------
btschaegg
How does it work?
Due to rapid advancement in dark ritual technology,
the programming community has streamlined the
Development and deployment of unspeakable
eldritch horrors.
Using robust open-source libraries like a sack of
live geese, websites like this one can be
developed with far more efficient sacrificial
rituals than ever before.
We're still stuck on the version with
really inefficient sacrifical rituals
though, due to comp͆aͭatib̊i̼͕l̈̿i̮̜t̚y̅ ͊i͋s̾s̢͈͠u̶e̛̊s̼̃.
Not that I'm in need for an URL shortener, but I really like the style it's
"advertised" in :-)
------
Retr0spectrum
This could potentially be useful to scammers, to pre-filter out the kind of
people who click on shady links.
------
acbabis
This is neat. I'll make sure to use it whenever I post something here or on
Reddit. Great work
------
zeep
redirect to about:config -> [http://hey.look.a.verylegit.link/765ip-
stealer_.json.zip](http://hey.look.a.verylegit.link/765ip-stealer_.json.zip)
and get a Corrupted Content Error (edit: under Firefox)
------
rkuykendall-com
I built this years ago when I made it up during an IM conversation with a
friend and we realized it wasn't taken:
[http://shadydownloads.com/](http://shadydownloads.com/)
------
SimeVidas
I get “Secure Connection Failed”in Firefox Nightly when clicking on the demo
link.
~~~
fiatjaf
That's a feature!
~~~
crazysim
That "feature" does not appear to work for me. It probably should be a feature
though.
------
amelius
I'd like a way to get some statistics, e.g. how many people clicked the link,
etc.
That might even be useful when posting links to HN.
------
dredmorbius
I've DNS blackholed the entire .link TLD, along with .science, .country,
.click, and .rocks.
So, there's that.
(DNSMasq, router-based blocklist.)
~~~
jessaustin
Do you care to share the reasons you've taken this decision?
~~~
dredmorbius
Direct personal realisation, an increasingly take-no-prisoners approach to
online abuse, and a considerable amount of evidence from elsewhere that such
TLDs are almost entirely void of value.
My router doesn't have sufficient resources to list individual hosts,
particularly where widespread abuse is found. Plus it's just too much fucking
work.
BlueCoat Security (now part of Symantec) have been publishing a "Shady TLD
series".
[https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/floating-down-
stream-...](https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/floating-down-stream-shady-
tld-research-part-17)
Basically: to 2-3 nines, these TLDs are nothing but trouble. If they can't
clean up their own acts, fuck 'em.
And let that be warning to other TLD registrars.
~~~
lstamour
These lists, it should be pointed out, are quickly becoming outdated as more
folks sign up for new domain names. For example, there’s this on .xyz
[https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/exploring-xyz-
another...](https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/exploring-xyz-another-
shady-tld-report) and then there’s actual usage of it:
[https://abc.xyz](https://abc.xyz) (completely not mentioned...) If you want
to know the most popular/relevant sites on a TLD, search google for `site:xyz`
to see a small list... E.g. .link often is used by websites with very long
domains looki for a shorter one, like [http://gcr.link/](http://gcr.link/)
Amazon has [http://aws.science/](http://aws.science/) .country is mostly crap,
but there is [http://cma.country/](http://cma.country/) .click is indeed only
slightly less spammy, but does have [http://bbc.click/](http://bbc.click/) And
.rocks doesn’t deserve the ban. It’s used by fan sites, people promoting tech
or events, and fun stuff like kqed.rocks for kqed.org ... I’ll admit though,
it can be hard to tell with all the third party domains which sites are
legitimate and which aren’t...
~~~
dredmorbius
Given the risk/reward of, oh, say, finding my systems hosed or users scammed
and/or bank accounts drained, vs. missing out on someone's link shortener, I
think I'll err on the side of caution.
This being an assessment based on local awareness of circumstances.
~~~
cptn_brittish
In what way are you more secure then when someone uses a .com domain? In both
cases it is easy to register a url and turn into a malicious site. It really
seems you are blackholing parts of the web for no good reason except to exempt
yourself from actually performing a security check on the sites on the
assumption all other tld's are safe.
~~~
dredmorbius
Wrong question.
Risk. Reward. Administrative cost.
The first of these I blocked when I looked at the domain and realised that the
TLD were registering any old line noise. I'm not going to bother sorting that.
Search for other experience turned up Blue Coat.
I subscribe to blocklists, and they update periodically. There are other
levels of protection.
When a TLD is 99.9% malware or scams, it's far easier to block it outright.
Registrars should take responsibility for what they're registering. Not my
problem.
~~~
cptn_brittish
My experiance with symantec web protection (which I assume will use the same
blocklists they are talking about) is that it has a ridiculous false positive
rate and when I was still in High School they had blue-coat installed and it
had a worse false positive rate. I would be very careful about running
blacklists from those companies aside from anti-ad blocklists.
------
alexdrans
Hi, would you please consider paramaterising the input in the URL so that I
can use it with Chrome's Omnibar?
------
pavlakoos
But what for? So that people don't click it?
------
qume
Woz would love this, I hope he gets to see it
------
Mayzie
Doesn't work for any HTTPS site.
------
dingo_bat
Unable to open in Edge: [http://imgur.com/a/nBAne](http://imgur.com/a/nBAne)
------
m0atz
How is this top of hacker news???
~~~
LeoNatan25
People have a sense of humor, and this is a fantastic meta joke. Why so
serious?
~~~
superflyguy
This site doesn't like jokey comments, so how are pointless jokey links
tolerated? It's not like the linked to site is making a serious point in a
light hearted way.
~~~
matt_wulfeck
Because the joke is actually a utility, and I for one plan to share links to
others with it to continue the fun (can't be done with a witty/funny comment).
------
pmiller2
Mods, thanks for changing the title. It was screwing with the layout on
mobile.
------
logicallee
This:
secure.verylegit.link/warez737speedupurpc.gif.pdf
(example from site) doesn't look dodgy to me at all.
I'd have no qualms clicking on it, because my browser and I can handle
suspicious websites. (Especially ones ending pdf.)
Something that would give pause would be:
[https://tinyurl.com/2ea2mu4?command=127.0.0.1/activate](https://tinyurl.com/2ea2mu4?command=127.0.0.1/activate)
I would think...wait a minute... I probably wouldn't click this example.
~~~
swampthinker
Good for you. But this is a scary looking link for the average internet
browser.
~~~
logicallee
I disagree, because it literally says "secure.verylegit.link". Those are not
negative words.
If this seemed suspicious to the people you're talking about, nobody would
start a letter to them with the words, " Please permit me to make your
acquaintance in so informal a manner. This is necessitated by my urgent need
to reach a dependable and trust wordy foreign partner. This request may seem
strange and unsolicited but I will crave your indulgence and pray that you
view it seriously. " (I found this example online.)
So, I simply disagree that the example produced looks suspicious. It looks
fine.
Further, I wouldn't even think twice before clicking it. The example I quoted
simply doesn't look suspicious. (Because pdf is a 'safe' filetype.) I don't
think it would give the average Internet user pause, either.
~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
_The example I quoted simply doesn 't look suspicious. (Because pdf is a
'safe' filetype.)_
Safe?
[https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
list/vendor_id-53/p...](https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
list/vendor_id-53/product_id-497/Adobe-Acrobat-Reader.html)
~~~
logicallee
Yes, safe. I open it safely in Chrome (I just click, Chrome opens it natively
in the same view) and the chance someone is going to burn a PDF zero-day for
chrome on a random link I come across is vanishingly small.
You can open PDF files in Chrome. Even malicious ones. It's okay.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Guided meditation for beginners - spaceboy
http://quietkit.com/
======
sharkweek
I'm a full-blown a cynic, but after OCD and anxiety got the best of me, my
therapist recommended I try meditation to both start and end my day, I've
started to notice huge improvements.
Can't recommend it enough. It's frustrating at first, the mind will just not
stop wandering to worries every 10 seconds, but almost always on cue, the
guided meditation would remind me "is you're mind wandering? no big deal,
bring your focus back to your breath."
Here's where I recommend starting - [http://www.nytimes.com/well/guides/how-
to-meditate](http://www.nytimes.com/well/guides/how-to-meditate)
There are a few moments now where my mind will go entirely blank, and it's the
most relaxing feeling in the world. I still get too excited when that happens
to keep it sustained, but I can sense it starting to work.
It's really helpful to check in for a few minutes throughout the day as well.
Take something in visually, observe a feeling, listen to what your body is
telling you.
Sounds hippy-dippy, sure, and I'm not pretending to be a doctor or make
medical recommendations, but for me, It Just Works (TM)
~~~
Cozumel
When you've been doing it for a while your mind will be blank all the time,
which sounds kind of bad but it's actually great, but the interesting thing is
once you can control your own thoughts you'll start to realise that not all of
them are yours.
People are like radios and broadcast their thoughts, and you'll be picking
them up without knowing it. You'll also be able to project them i.e influence
people. Those powers known as 'siddhis' are just a fraction of what you can
attain.
Much like everything western though guided meditation is a horribly
bastardised version of the real thing, if you're interested look into Raja
Yoga when you're ready.
Edited:
[http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1906-09rajayoga.pd...](http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1906-09rajayoga.pdf)
This is the definitive course guide, the first lesson can take a year, 10
years, or a lifetime, don't go past the first lesson till you're ready. You'll
know when you are.
~~~
mythrwy
If this were true I'd expect to see yogis running the world.
Instead, running the world are people who I suspect aren't much into
meditation.
~~~
noxplode
Why would yogis want to run the world?
~~~
koliber
I don't think the parent said he wanted yogis to run the world.
I believe he said that if yogis could really project their thoughts, it would
be a super-power which would enable them to run the world.
The conclusion is that since they do not run the world, they likely do not
possess such super-powers.
~~~
roansh
I do not believe that one can achieve supernatural powers with meditation
either (for I have not seen someone with those).
Assuming they have such superpowers, they also need the desire to run the
world. Hence, this way of concluding that they do not possess such powers does
not seem right.
~~~
koliber
I like this mental exercise.
I agree that it is possible that they have the mental projection superpower
and no desire to run the world. That would make sense, at least from my
cursory knowledge of yogis :).
However, their philosophy has a central tenet of minimizing suffering.
Wouldn't they use their superpower to eliminate suffering to any extent
possible?
And a counter-point to that is, what if they do have the superpower, and they
do use it, and that is why there is less suffering in the world than there
otherwise would be.
It looks like what we need is a double-blind study.
------
markestefanos
For those interested in learning more, The Mind Illuminated is by far the best
book I've come across on the topic. It's an extremely systematic college level
manual for learning how to meditate. The author has a PhD in physiology, has
been meditating for 40 years, taught neuroscience for years, and speaks Pali
and Sanskrit, so he's able to read and interpret the original Buddhist texts.
These combined allow him to teach with a unique depth and precision.
Take a look at the Amazon reviews, and ask yourself if you've ever seen
anything so highly rated: [https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-
Integrati...](https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-Integrating-
Mindfulness/dp/1501156985/ref=dp_ob_title_bk)
I hope you find it as valuable as I did :)
~~~
nonsince
Frustratingly, you can't get the kindle version if you live in the UK (I
actually live in the Netherlands, which Amazon doesn't operate in at all, but
my account is from the UK). The kindle version even shows up on the US site
until I log in.
EDIT: I tried to use Amazon.nl (they do have a kindle store, just not regular
Amazon), they have the kindle version of the book but when I log in after
buying it I'm told it's not available in my country
~~~
markestefanos
Email me (in my profile).
~~~
nonsince
It's not in your profile
~~~
markestefanos
Thanks, fixed.
------
hsitz
The recording seems okay, but I find it really odd that the scripted voice
says "feel your chest rise on an in breath, and feel it fall back down on an
out breath." Chest-breathing is something to be avoided, especially in
mediation, as it creates tension. The proper method of breathing is diaphragm-
based breathing, otherwise called belly-breathing.
This is not a trivial issue for meditation, really strange that they get it
wrong. They should be saying, "feel your belly rise on an in breath . . . "
and there should also be some instruction on proper method of breathing, since
many people are unaware of the difference.
~~~
tombh
I think "proper" is a bit strong. Sure there are some religious systems that
prescribe breathing methods, but from my understanding of mindfulness, the
entire point is the quality of awareness, not the quality of your breathing.
~~~
hsitz
I don't think it's too strong. Meditation is a wholistic activity, if anything
is. It involves putting your entire body in a relaxed state and mind being
aware. With bad quality of breathing, which is what you get from "chest-
breathing" it is impossible to properly relax. Here's what the mayo clinic
says about breathing in meditation:
"Relaxed breathing. This technique involves deep, even-paced breathing using
the diaphragm muscle to expand your lungs. The purpose is to slow your
breathing, take in more oxygen, and reduce the use of shoulder, neck and upper
chest muscles while breathing so that you breathe more efficiently."
[http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/meditation/in-
dep...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/meditation/in-
depth/meditation/art-20045858?pg=2)
I would challenge someone to find any (good) resource on meditation that
recommends chest breathing. I'm sure there are resources out there that
recommend chest breathing for meditation, but they are either (1) uninformed
or simply not carefully edited, as in website we're discussing in this thread,
or (2) it's something way different from the normal, garden variety,
meditation that beginners should be doing (which website in our discussion is
not).
------
anotherevan
Dalek Relaxation Tape
[https://youtu.be/e59guruVL4o](https://youtu.be/e59guruVL4o)
~~~
yardshop
It relaxes me just knowing that it exists!
------
desireco42
I hate guided meditation... to me this is complete opposite of what meditation
should be.
You can do this initial few times, but after that, you don't need any voice
but your own in your head. That is if you are really doing meditation, if you
want to pretend... then headspace yourself.
Again, this is my view as someone who actually meditated for like 20+ yrs.
~~~
koliber
I hate training wheels on my bike... to me this is complete opposite of what
riding a bike should be.
You can do this initial few times, but after that, you don't need any help but
your own sense of balance in your head. That is if you are really riding a
bike, if you want to pretend... then continue using training wheels yourself.
Again, this is my view as someone who actually rode a bike for like 20+ yrs.
\---
Comes off a bit snarky, doesn't it?
I think I see what you are trying to convey, and wrote the above so that
others could get a feel as well, using a more tangible analogy.
~~~
desireco42
:) It did came out quite a bit snarky. Completely justified criticism. It was
late in a day.
Oh, and I did rode my bike for more then 20+ years. I can prop it on back
wheel and do few stunts even today. Impresses my kids.
~~~
koliber
However it came out, I appreciate you sharing your experience and point of
view. As someone who is off of training wheels on the bike but still on
commercial guided meditation courses, it's great to know that there's a lot
more to come.
------
michaelsbradley
For those who might be interested in additional resources, a classic treatment
of discursive meditation in the Western Christian tradition, a.k.a. _" mental
prayer,"_ can be found in the Fifth Treatise (pp. 247–354, original numbering)
of Fr. Rodriguez's masterpiece:
[https://archive.org/stream/PPCV-
Manresa#page/n273/mode/2up](https://archive.org/stream/PPCV-
Manresa#page/n273/mode/2up)
And here is a fine essay on Lectio Divina, written sometime in the early
2000s:
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QcuUot_6BQ3jgj1wJtsx-C5Y...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QcuUot_6BQ3jgj1wJtsx-C5YrSUCZE2fOdpG4k5k8pg/)
~~~
seltzered_
To add on, I've been interested in Vinay Gupta's approach to meditation, which
he recently codified/packaged with some other folks into an app:
[http://cuttingmachinery.org](http://cuttingmachinery.org)
It basically revolves around an hour of meditation, but switches from mantra,
to open awareness, to feeling negative emotions in 10 minute intervals. I'm
probably not going to say this correctly, but I believe the intent is to get
beyond just the ability to feel calm but have a better awareness of things
(how we interact in the world, our emotions, how much it really matters, etc.)
in our lives. There's also a multi-part podcast interview of him (which led to
the app) starting at [http://futurethinkers.org/enlightenment-vinay-
gupta/](http://futurethinkers.org/enlightenment-vinay-gupta/)
------
heyheyhey
"The guided meditations from QuietKit offers three main benefits to anyone who
uses them:
Decreased stress and anxiety
Increased focus
Increased mindfulness (the ability to be aware of what's occurring at any
given moment, but being able to choose how to act, as opposed to just
reacting)"
Are those three benefits purely anecdotal?
~~~
ASpring
There has been quite a bit of research surrounding mindfulness meditation for
a couple decades now.
Here are some cursory studies addressing your three questions. They are easy
to find on Google Scholar.
Decreased stress and anxiety
[http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2010.0142](http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2010.0142)
Increased Focus (specifically for people on the ADHD spectrum)
[http://www.ahc.umn.edu/img/assets/20825/MindfulnessADHD-
Zylo...](http://www.ahc.umn.edu/img/assets/20825/MindfulnessADHD-
Zylowska_et_al.pdf)
I have to imagine mindfulness is a difficult concept to disentangle from
meditation itself, however there do seem to be attempts to create measures for
this:
[http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1073191107313003](http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1073191107313003)
Here's a meta-analysis summarizing many studies about the effects of
meditation. Effect sizes seem consistently positive albeit on the smaller
side:
[http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12671-012-0101-x](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12671-012-0101-x)
------
ben174
I'm probably an ideal candidate for meditation because just the thought of it
is nearly unbearable. "Wasting a whole ten minutes doing nothing?!"
But it's hard for me to get past the feeling that it's a waste of time. As
someone who is on public transit for two hours a day, and an owner of a nice
pair of noise cancelling headphones - I wonder if I could make use of that
time by doing this. Guess I'll give it a try.
~~~
yathern
I've dabbled in meditation, and I should certainly keep up with it because I
noticed benefits as well, I just lack the self discipline. But your situation
of "I'm too busy to meditate" reminds me of the old Zen quote that goes
something like: "You should sit in meditation for 20 minutes a day. Unless
you're too busy, then you should sit for an hour."
------
pb000
A couple of things: If you want to learn meditation find yourself a teacher
who will be able to guide you with your specific and personal needs,
advantages and deficiencies in focus, character and views on outside world and
on yourself, through this process. We are never taught what meditation is and
how to do it right. None of the sources mention such important pre-requsite as
understanding of human energy movement in breathing, human energy anatomy and
physiology. So if you want to play with meditation is one thing, doing thing
right will mean you have to have guidance.
Second, As Salvador Dali said: don't be afraid of perfection, you will never
reach it. Blank minds is a good but also a very hard and advanced concept
beginner meditators will most likely not reach. It is very hard for the
uninitiated person (by previous karma or other spiritual training) who is used
to focus attention on outward to be able to go inward, let along still the
mind. The best way is to distract your mind from 'uncomfortable' nothingness
with count while you are doing breathing and visualization.
------
cptvideo2
There’s also a well-known affect on blood-pressure (lowering) that comes from
the breath control that’s at the core of most meditation practice.
[http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/stress-raising-your-
blood...](http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/stress-raising-your-blood-
pressure-take-a-deep-breath-201602159168)
I don’t think that the cause of this is completely understood, but CO2 is a
potent vasodilator. I’ve seen hatha yoga (physical yoga) practioners ditch
hatha for prana-yoga (breath yoga) because they said it's a more powerful way
to get to wherever yoga takes you.
~~~
curun1r
One small nit to what you've said. Breath control is core to yogic practices,
as you've mentioned, but it is not part of most meditative practice.
Meditation typically involves breath awareness, but specifically not control.
The idea is to observe the breath as it is, not how we would like it to be.
~~~
autocorr
I'm not the OP, but it is an important distinction, breath control (pranayama)
is yogic.
While I can't speak for other traditions that feature meditation, at least in
Theravada Buddhism, training of the breath is an essential part of the
practice for the development of mindfulness (sati), beyond "observing the
breath as it is." This gets de-emphasized in the modern vipassana movement
focusing on "bare attention", but canonical interpretations of the Anapanasati
Sutta [1] on the mindfulness of breathing to indicate that one only uses bare
attention to "discern" long and short breaths, but "trains" oneself to become
aware of the whole body, to calm bodily fabrication, and the rest of the items
on the list. This is taken to mean that one can use right effort to breath in
ways that are conducive to being aware of the whole body or ways of breathing
that calm bodily fabrication, etc. So, while definitely not as gross as
counting fixed durations like on the site linked, exerting oneself to
influence the breath has a place in at least one very prominent non-yogic
tradition.
[1]
[http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html)
(perhaps the second most important sutta related to meditation in the Pali
Canon, next to the Maha-satipatthana Sutta [2])
[2]
[http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html)
------
conception
[http://www.10percenthappier.com](http://www.10percenthappier.com) is my
meditation for skeptics site. Worth checking out as well. They have a lot of
good videos and a podcast.
~~~
dominotw
meditation is to become happier, make more money etc
------
westoncb
I started getting into meditation a few years ago after realizing the reason
the world felt less 'real' than it used to was because I could never 'get out
of my head' and have more direct interactions with external things. (For
example, I finally went to Tokyo and moved to San Francisco and the difference
each made was pretty minor—like looking at high res photos on the internet; it
was a stark contrast to when I visited NYC seven years prior and was blown
away just walking around. ) It soon became my number one priority after also
realizing that all the times I remembered _really_ enjoying myself, I was in
that 'out of my head' state (you have a much better sense of presence, the
3Dness of things is much more apparent, smells, tastes, interpersonal
interactions are all way richer).
Anyway, I decided to make a wide survey of meditation resources from old
religious texts to modern neuroscience inspired teaching, to a number of
things in between.
The first source that really made things click for me was watching some of the
youtube videos from Ajahn Brahm. He's English, but trained as a monk in
Thailand for many years, and has a background in physics. I think it's a
combination that makes him pretty well-suited to explaining these concepts to
techy Westerners. He's also got a light, humorous style to his lecturing, so
it's easy to watch (if a bit cringeworthy [due to corniness] at times. And
you'll get an occasionally bit of religiosity [he is a monk after all], but he
mostly keeps it out.) I'd recommend this one for starters:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEw2mHpVv9A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEw2mHpVv9A)
I also found bits of Jon Kabat-Zinn's "Full Catastrophe Living" to be very
helpful in the early stages (it focuses on another form of meditation called
'body scan' which has some unique benefits, and can be easier for beginners.
It's often the choice of style when teaching for therapeutic purposes).
Edit: I'll also add the way I see meditation instruction fitting into the
practice: there aren't that many concepts, but each has extraordinary depth,
so you just have to keep revisiting regularly; you'll often find that if
you've improved in your practice, you can go back and see the same old lecture
and interpret it totally differently, even though it made a kind of sense the
first time. You'd think you wouldn't need to be told, e.g., "just allow your
thoughts to arise and disappear on their own" like a hundred times, in
different ways—but you probably do :)
------
vSanjo
A question, and one that probably shuns any kind of methodical thinking and
science, but there's always talk about 'rewriting' or 'rewiring' the brain.
Plasticity and all that stuff.
Are there thoughts I -should- be thinking, patterns I -should- be training or
ideas I -should- be following to maximise the positive changes meditation has
the potential to bring?
~~~
JamesBarney
Most of the day we are aware of our 5 senses. We notice new sounds, new
sights, and new sensations. But many times we don't notice new thoughts, new
emotions, and new feelings. We're blind to ourselves most of the the day.
When we practice mindfulness we practice listening, seeing, and feeling our
thoughts. The whole point is to strengthen the awareness of our mind. Allowing
us to notice changes to our inner world as we notice changes to our outer one.
The way we practice this is by focusing on our breath, and noticing when our
mind wanders. I first thougt the important part of meditation was the
focusing. It wasn't. It was the noticing. That's what we're training when we
meditate. And that's the part that we're rewiring.
~~~
AVTizzle
^^ this.
------
jahbrewski
Curious to hear from folks who have consistently meditated for a prolonged
period of time (6mos+). What effects have you noticed?
~~~
jupiter90000
Don't do it as much now, though have consistently over long periods in the
past. Some benefits I experienced (subjective):
\- Thoughts do not have a grip over how I act as often. \- probably related,
lower likelihood of compulsively doing things.
\- Feeling more collected and relaxed in traffic and 'stressful situations.'
\- More likely to be able to pay attention to who I am talking with, what I am
doing, etc, right now instead of thinking of things besides that.
\- Start of realization that who I am is not the internal dialog and
procession of thoughts. This one is hard to explain. I think I am certain
things due to my thoughts; that's just my thoughts though.
\- Noticing that thinking constantly about things using language puts reality
into categories that are essentially made up.
Anyway, your experience may be different. I highly suggest trying it.
~~~
chillwaves
> \- Start of realization that who I am is not the internal dialog and
> procession of thoughts. This one is hard to explain. I think I am certain
> things due to my thoughts; that's just my thoughts though.
This one for me is huge. You are not your thoughts. Took a really long time to
understand.. it's almost like I am two people, the one who is thinking and the
one who observes the thinking. Helps me distance my emotions and reflect on
them in a more rational way (not obsess over mistakes, or worry too much about
the future).
~~~
curun1r
Just to expound a bit, since I've had the same revelation during meditation...
Buddhists believe that the mind is another sense, just like sight, hearing,
smell, taste and touch. The only difference is that it's a sense that devoted
to looking inward instead of outward. And during meditation you can really
start to see it as such. In the same way that you can let your eyes glaze over
and see without processing the images or tune out what you're hearing, you can
think without paying attention to your thoughts. It's can be trippy to
experience, especially when you have the related revelations that pain or
other discomfort is, similarly, just a thought that you can likewise ignore.
------
ktRolster
It might be worth visiting a Zen center in your area to meditate with monks.
Meditating alone, it's harder to focus.
------
lappa
Is it better to meditate with the sound of rain as provided with quietkit, or
no sound at all?
~~~
autocorr
If you happen to be a quiet place it will likely be easier to concentrate
without the rain sounds. "Easier" in this sense is a bit relative, however. An
environment with fewer external distractions will lead to a selection effect
where you "catch" yourself more frequently and return back to the breath.
Thus, you may feel like you're not concentrating well, since you "keep getting
distracted." It's kind of like the Dunning-Kruger effect of the beginning
meditation :)
On the other hand I find music and background conversations especially
distracting and like to listen to pink-noise or other non-varying noise sounds
to make concentrating easier.
------
AznHisoka
Has anyone experienced an improvement in any physical diseases/ailments from
meditation?
~~~
drzaiusapelord
I think meditation's primary effect, perhaps its only noticable effect for
most, is lowered anxiety via learning how to focus thought which tends to lead
to less worrying and such. Less anxiety means better sleep, earlier bedtimes,
less cortisol in the body, etc. Over time these can affect us physically in an
beneficial way.
An eight week mediation course shrinks the part of the brain involved in
anxiety:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-
life/wp/2015/05...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-
life/wp/2015/05/26/harvard-neuroscientist-meditation-not-only-reduces-stress-
it-literally-changes-your-brain/)
From an anecdotal perspective I found taking a anti-cortisol herb (Rhodiola
and Ashwaganda) gave me a comparable, but stronger, effect compared to what
30-45 minutes daily meditation gave me.
Meditation lowers cortisol:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23724462](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23724462)
------
savitur_it
is better practice meditation not alone, but with a master or an experienced
practicer of many years. Meditation can bring to light unconscious content. In
ashtanga yoga of Patanjali (yoga sutra) the meditation (dhyana) is considered
an high state of practice. For general relax and for stress, is better
learning yoga(for example yoga nidra and some light pranayamas), some forms or
chi kung and/or taichi
------
ge96
It would be funny the narrator... "Now I'm slowly reaching into your pocket...
to steal some of your money..."
I'm usually freaking out all the time in my mind... "Oh god oh god oh god...
this and that..." I find showering is where I collect my thoughts. Think about
some problem I'm trying to solve. I don't know.
------
nonsince
I use the app "Headspace" as a meditation beginner. The monthly price after
the first 10 sessions is a little steep (can't remember the exact price) but
there's a lot of extremely high-quality content covering mindfulness in almost
every aspect of life. I think it's worth the price.
~~~
daneyh
I used this and got upto the 30min sessions. After a while Andys voice becomes
counterproductive....but definitely good to get into it.
------
kordless
I'm a little late on commenting, but I'm gifted with Aphantasia. I've found it
naturally contributes to meditation as I experience no visuals in my mind's
eye. No visuals means no-thinking if you can wrangle the internal dialog under
control.
------
Willyfrog
Are there any similar resources in spanish? I'm interested in passing this
info to my wife, but unfortunately her english is not so good, so it would be
a problem for her to follow the guides in the comments.
~~~
paradisebunny
I can recommend the App Insight Timer. It is free and distributes user-
uploaded guided meditations. Lots of languages and content to choose from!
Highly recommended! edit: here is a link to their spanish content
[https://insighttimer.com/meditation-playlists/spanish-
medita...](https://insighttimer.com/meditation-playlists/spanish-meditations)
~~~
Willyfrog
thanks! I'll check it
------
joekrill
Cool! Love to see anything that promotes mindfulness and makes it more
accessible to folks. Interesting that the sessions are so short -- I'm not
sure I've seen anything shorter than 10 minutes before.
------
tshanmu
[https://smilingmind.com.au/](https://smilingmind.com.au/) is a great resource
to get started as well.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We’d All Save Some Money - ericcumbee
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tesla-would-stop-selling-cars-wed-all-save-some-money
======
LandoCalrissian
"Tesla can’t increase demand by dropping the price very much. "
That's a pretty big leap on the Authors part, one that isn't really justified
from facts or information. We know basically nothing about Tesla's plans for
their cheaper models or what they have/will do to reduce the cost.
It's really bizarre to me how much certain groups are just itching for Tesla
to fail.
~~~
DanBC
> It's really bizarre to me how much certain groups are just itching for Tesla
> to fail.
Patrick Michaels is a climate change denialist. He himself has estimated that
about 40% of his funding comes from the oil companies. He has been criticised
for manipulating the data of other scientists - not trivial mistakes or
oversights, but deliberate serious manipulations. (Here's just one example
where a colleague almost accuses him of fraud
(<http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2005/Crichton_20050927.pdf>)
> One of the skeptics, Pat Michaels, has taken the graph from our 1988 paper
> with simulated global temperatures for scenarios A, B and C, erased the
> results for scenarios B and C, and shown only the curve for scenario A in
> public presentations, pretending that it was my prediction for climate
> change. Is this treading close to scientific fraud?
He's part of the Cato Institute, who have publically said they disagree with
the scientific consensus on climate change.
Disappointing to see this worthless tripe on HN, and to see it getting any
votes.
~~~
duncan_bayne
<http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html>
It's disappointing to see someone avoid addressing every single one of the
issues raised in the original article, and instead focusing on attacking the
author.
Would you care to address any of the points he made in the original article?
~~~
skrebbel
Why is it disappointing? There's plenty of people here who address the
original point. Knowing more about the author and his motives is useful
information.
~~~
duncan_bayne
It wouldn't have been disappointing had DanBC posted it as an FYI - in the
sense of "be careful to check this guy's claims; he has falsified data in the
past."
But what he wrote was: "Disappointing to see this worthless tripe on HN, and
to see it getting any votes."
That is an ad-hominem attack, and disappointing to see on HN.
~~~
DanBC
I don't want people to be careful when checking that guy's claims.
I want people to not waste their time bothering to check that guy's claims.
Scientists gather data and form an opinion.
This guy has an opinion before he sees any data; he's paid at least 40% of his
funding for having that opinion; and then manipulates data to fit that
opinion. He misrepresents other people's work and other people's opinions.
If he had lied once or twice then perhaps there's some useful information to
be had by carefully checking what he's saying. But the pattern is so strong
that people can safely ignore him. Just as we ignore the time-cube guy, or
people who use phrases like quantum touch healing.
~~~
duncan_bayne
"I want people to not waste their time bothering to check that guy's claims."
That is pretty much the definition of an ad-hominem attack.
Your criticisms of his approach are valid, but also apply to a good number of
climatologists whose income is more dependent upon pro-AGW funding this his is
dependent upon oil company funding. Glass houses, stones, etc.
FWIW, my position is that correlation between human activity and climate
change has (finally) been solidly established, but:
\- our models lack any real predictive ability w.r.t. future climate, except
to say "interesting stuff will happen."
\- catastrophic climate change happens regardless of human input
Given the above two points I'm unconvinced that there's any AGW-based argument
for legislation. Argument based on atmospheric pollution harming human life?
Sure.
Instead, we should be focusing on growing our technological and academic
capacity towards climate engineering. Regardless of what AGW brings, at some
point in our history, we will need to tweak the climate to survive.
------
revscat
This is only true if you do not factor in the longer-term costs of carbon
emissions. Those emissions will eventually need to be dealt with, and the
costs will be substantial. If those costs are addressed today via tax
subsidies for zero-emissions vehicles then the future costs will be lower.
It is an "ounce of prevention" thing.
~~~
altoz
"...the costs will be substantial..."
This is an article of faith for the green crowd. I and many others are
skeptical of such a claim, especially when temperatures have dropped despite
higher emissions the past 10 years.
~~~
Afforess
>This is an article of faith for the green crowd. I and many others are
skeptical of such a claim, especially when temperatures have dropped despite
higher emissions the past 10 years.
Am I reading the graph wrong?
<http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.A.gif>
Looks like a rise to me.
Source: <http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/>
~~~
glenra
The quote you're responding to said "past 10 years". Strictly speaking, that's
accurate. You can play with the chart here - this is a chart of an average of
several global temperature series over exactly the last 120 months, with
trendline:
[http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/wti/last:120/plot/wti/last:...](http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/wti/last:120/plot/wti/last:120/trend/plot/wti/last:120)
------
jshen
It's rather odd to hear Cato complaining about tax breaks. It's even odder to
hear them talk about one persons tax break as another persons tax burden. They
seem to be very selective with where they apply this logic.
~~~
Kequc
What a rag. Here they are talking about the Keystone Pipeline, a proposed way
of pumping oil in north america to the shore where it can be exported at a
profit. They cite job creation as a benefit of public funding for the
pipeline, as well as the environment.
I can't believe this is on the front page of hacker news.
<http://www.cato.org/blog/climate-impact-keystone-xl-pipeline>
~~~
jcampbell1
> They cite job creation as a benefit of public funding for the pipeline
That is not stated or implied anywhere in the linked article. The Keystone
Pipeline is a private project.
~~~
Kequc
you're right, apologies for that
------
mncolinlee
As I pointed out in the other thread[1], this argument is pretty silly as the
Cato Institute and most electric car critics have openly advocated subsidies
for the industries they support. These "subsidies" are paid for by companies
who CHOSE to pay them to continue participation in the California market
without producing zero emissions vehicles. In the minds of these critics, the
fact that Tesla is a niche startup today in a small, renewable transportation
sector changes the entire dynamic about the deal.
One needs look no further than Cato's full-throated endorsement of oil
subsidies[2]. Despite admitting externalities exist, they put their stamp of
endorsement on oil industry subsidies while opposing far smaller industry-paid
subsidies for Tesla, a company whose product harms profits of oil companies.
[1] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5753993> [2]
[http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/big-oil-
pub...](http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/big-oil-public-
trough-examination-petroleum-subsidies)
~~~
enoch_r
Your Cato link is _not_ a "full-throated endorsement of oil subsidies," it is
a discussion of whether government interventions in energy markets benefit oil
companies on net, and if you'd done a cursory google search for "Cato oil
subsidies" you would have found that Cato has repeatedly argued _against_
them[1][2].
This sort of thing is why I'm tired of political news on HN.
[1] [http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/eliminating-
oil-...](http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/eliminating-oil-
subsidies-two-cheers-president-obama)
[2] [http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/oil-subsidies-
do...](http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/oil-subsidies-dock)
~~~
mncolinlee
Cato: "The evidence indicates that, on balance, the oil industry is not a net
beneficiary of government subsidies... The contention that oil consumers do
not pay their fair share of the environmental and national defense costs they
impose on society is dubious. There is little evidence to suggest that the
environmental externalities imposed by oil consumption exceed the taxes and
regulatory costs paid by consumers."
That's about as close as anyone has ever come to fully-backing oil subsidies.
They're not terribly popular in normal political discourse. The piece unveils
a dubious argument that evades the fact that taxes on oil are used to finance
the cost of roads and highways. They do not serve to mitigate national defense
costs, environmental damages, or health costs caused by burning fossil fuels,
extracting them, or refining them. These costs are borne mostly as hidden
externalities paid by government and consumers.
~~~
pod4369
How in the world is that a "full-throated endorsement of oil subsidies"?
Also, claiming that "That's about as close as anyone has ever come to fully-
backing oil subsidies" is quite laughable.
~~~
mncolinlee
If you have been in politics as long as I have, you would know that an
argument which is designed entirely to downplay the risks and costs of a
policy is an endorsement of the same policy.
------
aaronbrethorst
The total cost of the referenced program in California is $55.7m spread over
four years, or just under $14m per year[1]. In a budget that measures into the
_billions_ of dollars per year, that's nothing.
[1] [http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-
programs/clean-v...](http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-
programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project)
~~~
danielweber
I'm not saying the program should end, but your argument is how we get death
by 1000 paper cuts.
~~~
aaronbrethorst
I'm guessing we probably disagree on the sequester too, then, huh?
------
nawitus
The article should take sales tax into consideration, ranging from 3 to 8
percent, while the average is 5.75%[1]. That's pretty close to the $7.5k
federal taxback bonus.
Another critique of the article is that Leaf's sales numbers are not good
evidence for future sales. Electric cars will make a lot more sense when fast
charge stations become more commonplace. It's like saying (in 2004 or
something) that nobody ever wants to buy a smartphone because there's only a
few apps available.
1\. [http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/cost-of-car-
own...](http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/cost-of-car-
ownership/cost-of-taxes-on-your-car1.htm)
------
drawkbox
The subsidies and tax breaks are minuscule to the subsidies of oil companies
which cato backs. I wish we could just tax all companies equally and much much
lower. But we should always give breaks to encourage competition.
~~~
jcampbell1
What? Here is Cato praising Obama for proposing the end of oil subsidies:
[http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/eliminating-
oil-...](http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/eliminating-oil-
subsidies-two-cheers-president-obama)
I tend to disagree with Cato's brand of libertarianism, but they are
consistent.
~~~
drawkbox
Well I stand corrected, had not seen that. Glad they posted that. However
still the breaks for electric/green tech is still not a comparison at all and
oil/gas/manufacturing are well established. I'd be for kicking taxes down to
the subsidy levels so there aren't any major costs to remove it, just a tax
break for other industrie. It would be great for revenues for companies for a
while and they might pay their taxes actually. In a perfect world taxes would
be 10% maybe and companies could bring their money back to the US.
------
stephengillie
This article was written with an edge. I would not be surprised if the author
is among the people who consider taxation to be theft.
I wonder how he felt about Lee Iacoca getting Congress to bail out Chrysler in
the 80s.
~~~
jjtheblunt
Was the author even born then?
~~~
tlrobinson
I'd guess "yes": <http://www.cato.org/people/patrick-michaels>
------
RestlessMind
> but it would be more comfort if we weren’t all compelled—completely against
> most of our wills—to shell out around somewhere around $10K
Tax subsidies are decided by legislators who are elected by us. So the claim -
"completely against most of our wills" - is utterly false.
~~~
jessriedel
Doesn't have to be. Legislators elected with small majorities can easily vote
for legislation that is supported by less than 50% of the constituency.
~~~
RestlessMind
Its possible in one of the following cases: 1\. The issue is insignificant
enough (or else, opponent would hammer the electorate with ads highlighting
this issue) so voters don't care about it. 2\. The issue comes up after the
election and stance of candidates regarding that is not known before one
votes. #2 is not applicable since green energy / electric cars are pretty old
issues and voters (should) know what their candidates think about those. #1
might be more applicable, in which case the original point in article
("against most of our wills") is still moot - voters simply don't care about
this as much as they care about some other stuff.
~~~
icebraining
The fact that there are more important issues doesn't mean voters don't care,
it just means the system is unfit to take them into account.
~~~
RestlessMind
If majority of voters care about some not-insignificant issue, current system
will ensure that its taken into account. And thats my main point - this issue
is simply not significant for a majority of the population.
~~~
icebraining
_If majority of voters care about some not-insignificant issue, current system
will ensure that its taken into account._
Well, that's your claim, but not everyone agrees.
------
andrewtbham
Elon Musk says the ZEV credits are likely to go to 0 by Q4. The car is also
projected to 25% gross margins in Q4. Battery energy density and cost improve
about 7-8% each year and there will be a $30k car in 2016 or 2017.
I suspect the oil and car industries and their PR departments will push hard
to repeal the tax credit as they are in this article. Also expect Tesla will
push hard to tax carbon emitting vehicles. Should make for plenty link bait
like this.
~~~
dm2
There will be a tipping point thought. Hopefully sooner rather than later, the
major auto companies are going to have to jump on board with the electric
vehicle industry and fully support EVs.
What year do you think the last ICE vehicle will be sold in the US? At some
point, gas stations will stop selling gasoline. I honestly don't know if it'll
be in 10 years or 50 years.
~~~
andrewtbham
I think within 10 years we will see an explosion in the popularity of EVs.
However, it's possible as EVs increase in popularity, Lithium prices could go
up and gasoline prices could fall.
------
salimmadjd
Putting Cato's credibility and biased views aside, this article it's first of
its kind that doesn't just republish Tesla's PR as news! You can view Tesla as
tax on the middle class. You can argue most middle class families will not buy
a Tesla but they are paying the rich to buy one. I think the tax credit should
be tied to income.
------
jasonkolb
". Then there are generous state subsidies ($2500 in California, $4000 in
Illinois—the bluer the state, the more the taxpayers get gouged)"
I live here, and I am no fan of Illinois, but the sales tax rate is 6.25 on
autos right now, which mean the state makes back 98% of that subsidy every
time a Tesla is sold.
------
quotha
They should get those tax credits for driving the car - not just buying it -
cause then they help lower the cost of gas for us all!
~~~
sp332
They already get an effective tax break by not paying gas taxes.
~~~
eatmyshorts
So, if I get you correctly, you're saying they get a tax break by not paying
taxes on something they don't use? Why stop with them not paying gas taxes?
Since they are American-built, they also don't pay import taxes. They aren't
luxury yachts, so they don't need to pay a luxury yacht tax, either. Why,
there's all sorts of taxes they don't pay.
Claiming they get an effective tax break by not paying gas taxes is absurd.
~~~
jaynos
Gas taxes are used to build and maintain the roads that electric cars drive
on. Electric car owners reap those benefits without paying the gas tax.
That said, the CATO article was beyond biased for all the reasons already
mentioned.
------
beat
First draw your curve, then plot your data.
Cato isn't so much a "conservative think tank" as a mouthpiece for certain
established financial interests, such as the oil industry. So Cato's job is
not to produce facts and logic, but rather to produce propaganda that bears a
surface resemblance to facts and logic, in order to put a thumb on the
political scales.
Tesla is what we in our little corner here call "disruptive innovation" - in
this case, disrupting the automotive sector's dependence on the oil industry.
This is a technically difficult and very expensive proposition, in the face of
some extremely powerful vested interests at both the national level (Cato
Institute for oil) and the local level (mandatory dealer laws in Texas, etc).
Tesla is tackling this in part by relying on tax subsidies to consumers, based
on the public good.
Now, if tax subsidies benefit Cato's backers, then Cato is all for tax
subsidies. But if tax subsidies threaten their backers, then Cato is suddenly
all righteous about "free markets". Cato doesn't give a crap about free
markets. And their backers are scared... Detroit and other non-US auto
manufacturers are sorta-neutral third parties here. They're not in the oil
business, they're in the car manufacturing business. If Tesla's disruption is
successful, they'd much rather adopt Tesla's model and cut Big Oil loose, than
go out of business manufacturing dinosaur-fart burners.
So this post is mostly interesting in that grumbling about consumer tax
subsidies on high-end luxury goods is the BEST they have.
~~~
icebraining
Well, the fact that they may be hypocrites doesn't make them wrong, but a look
at their arguments for tax breaks on the oil industry could help better
understand where they're coming from. Do you have some links to those? Thanks.
------
vec
> As the company sold 5,000 cars in the quarter, though, $13,600 per car was
> paid by other manufacturers, who are going to pass at least some of that
> cost on to buyers of their products.
The article compares pollution credits to bribery and a shakedown, but I don't
quite get the case. Tesla doesn't get them for free, it actually has to
produce low emission vehicles. And no one is forcing Honda to buy them from
Tesla specifically (or technically at all). Honda isn't prepared to produce
low emission cars, so the carbon credits market means they don't have to, so
long as they're willing to bear the external costs in some other way.
Pollution credits are a relatively lassiez faire mechanism for converting a
specific type of external costs to internal ones, and they seem to function
pretty well. Not a leading question, but I'm honestly curious. What is the
conservative or libertarian argument against them, and what approach would
conservatives or libertarians prefer we took to the problem of large
externalities?
~~~
icebraining
Well, there are multiple capitalist libertarian schools of thought, not to
mention left-libertarian, but from what I've understood the Rothbardian
position (which, I believe, is pretty hardcore in general) to be, it boils
down to:
1\. It's impossible to calculate the true costs of an externality like "air
pollution", therefore any number that the government chooses is arbitrary and
unjust.
2\. When an externality can be defined concretely as in "Action by person A
harms person B or her/his property", then B can sue A to stop it and get
compensated (e.g., a factory dumping chemicals to someone's land).
3\. On the other hand, it's unreasonable for people to individually identify
and sue car owners, therefore the best solution is to privatize roads, and
then the road owner would be liable for the pollution, so he would have an
incentive to raise prices or ban high polluting cars.
That said, this is not necessarily the position of the CATO Institute; I'm not
sure where they stand.
------
ptlu
The author blames a company which is able to take advantage of laws rather
than blaming the lawmakers for creating such laws.
1\. Tesla is able to sell carbon credits it earns from selling its cars. Due
to California law, other car companies must buy these credits to offset the
sale of their fossil fuel burning cars. 2\. Its customers get a lower price on
their vehicles due to tax-credits for electric vehicles.
These are the laws in place which help a company like Tesla grow.
I would imagine these laws are designed to do exactly what they are doing,
which is helping an electric car manufacture grow and compete in a world
dominated by vehicles using fossil fuels.
The hidden argument he is making is that fossil fuels and climate change
surely cost us nothing and should not be included at all in the cost of items
which generate a third of CO2 emissions.
------
kiba
The tax credit and carbon dioxide emission credits compensate for the negative
externality of petrochemical products.
------
mchanson
Cause you know the big three never got any government money...
~~~
uvdiv
Who do you think the Cato Institute is?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=auto+bailout+site:cato.org>
------
steveklabnik
The Cato institute is not exactly without bias. Doesn't mean they're wrong,
just something to think about as you read this piece.
------
crazcarl
It doesn't seem all that strange or bad that the non-tesla car producers are
passing along the costs to the consumer. If a company is putting their own
profits into R&D for a new product they are developing, is that not same thing
as passing on the costs to the consumer?
Except in this case, Honda is paying for Tesla's R&D instead of their own.
~~~
icebraining
I'm pretty sure their disagreement is with the exceptional nature that you
pointed out.
------
uh_oh
They mentioned Honda, of all companies!
[http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Cato_Institute#Co...](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Cato_Institute#Corporate_sponsors)
American Petroleum Institute, ExxonMobil, General Motors, Honda North America,
Toyota Motor Corporation, Volkswagen of America
------
trotskylives
Comparing apples to apples, I would figure out what % of the US military
budget is spent defending oil supplies for gas powered cars which is another
unseen subsidy.
------
Shorel
Save some money on a very short term.
I'll put my hopes in Tesla. Long term thinking is where the future becomes
reality.
------
jcampbell1
The argument is deeply flawed, but not because libertarianism is inconsistent.
Reducing dependency on petroleum is a trillion dollar issue. Tesla has made
some major innovations in this area, including the multi-cell floorpan
battery, and all the money they have spent buying batteries is used by
suppliers to innovate on making them cheaper. Innovation only has to be done
once, and right now every car company on the planet has Model S's on racks and
are doing engineering tear downs. Tesla's engineering will probably pay
dividends to the world in the amount of billions over the next 30 years. A few
hundred million in state subsidies seems a small price to pay.
From the article: > About the only way they can do this (barring
some—currently remote—major battery technology improvements) is by cutting the
vehicle’s range.
It is completely lost on the author that one reason batteries get better (both
directly and indirectly) is because Tesla builds cars.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: I Was Unlucky – DuckDuckGo to Google Fallback Firefox Extension - lkiss
I think a lot of people from our community has the same experience as me. I tried using DuckDuckGo as my primary search platform a few times due to privacy concerns, but I always went back to Google because I wasn't satisfied with the results sometimes.<p>To solve this issue, I created a tiny Firefox addon which adds a new button to my DDG search page called "I was unlucky" and if you click on that button, it redirects you to Google with the same search query. I found it very useful.<p>I know you can do the same with appending "!g" to the query, but that's much more effort. :)
======
lkiss
Addon: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/i-was-
unlucky...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/i-was-unlucky/)
Source code: [https://github.com/KLaci/i-was-
unlucky](https://github.com/KLaci/i-was-unlucky)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
U.S..charges American engineer, Chinese with stealing GE’s trade secrets - ycombonator
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-american-engineer-chinese-businessman-with-stealing-ges-trade-secrets/2019/04/23/cb32c78a-65f5-11e9-82ba-fcfeff232e8f_story.html
======
ycombonator
_Several years ago, GE engaged in a joint venture with AVIC, a Chinese state-
owned aerospace company, to share technology for aviation software packages,
Wessel said. In return, GE expected to increase its sales of jet engines to
China. “Now it looks like China came back and stole what they don’t want to
buy,” he said._
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A True Story (150 AD) - apsec112
https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/wl2/wl211.htm
======
mellosouls
[https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_True_Story](https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_True_Story)
"A True Story" \- Lucian
_It is the earliest known work of fiction to include travel to outer space,
alien lifeforms, and interplanetary warfare. It has been described as "the
first known text that could be called science fiction"_
~~~
reagent_finder
>Additionally, they point out that A True Story was written in response to
another work that also contained science fictional elements, that is Antonius
Diogenes’ lost Of the Wonderful Things Beyond Thule, whose protagonist also
reached the Moon.
Well no, it's the earliest SURVIVING work. It's certainly interesting and a
fascinating insight to how people have always looked to the stars.
Also, it was the one that got lucky and remains. I guess have to give it
credit for that.
------
jml7c5
Is this the oldest "<submission title> (<year>)" submission on HN?
As an aside, if one does not enjoy the Fowlers' translation there is different
translation done by A. M. Harmon (side-by-side with original Greek):
[https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/true/tru00.htm](https://www.sacred-
texts.com/cla/luc/true/tru00.htm)
~~~
fsflover
Yes,
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16442888](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16442888)
~~~
yorwba
I think that only works for stories where the text in brackets is a number, so
"(150 AD)" or "(195 BCE)" won't show up. (And of course this submission hasn't
crossed the threshold of 40 upvotes yet.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Red Programming Language 0.6.1: Reactive Programming - akavel
http://www.red-lang.org/2016/06/061-reactive-programming.html
======
akavel
Quoting from the beginning of the article:
_[We don 't mean] yet-another-FRP framework[, but rather an idea] close to
spreadsheet's model (i.e. Excel formulas). That model has often been praised
for its simplicity and efficiency. You can now use it directly in Red._
_So, in practice, what is it? It is a way to link one or more object fields
to other fields or global words, by specifying relationships in a block of
code (can be a single expression or a complex multi-step computation). Each
time a source field value changes, the target value is immediatly updated, you
don 't have to call a function for that, it's pretty much define-and-forget._
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Einstein Was Right: NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment - tableslice
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/
======
tzs
It's not all that epic. These effects had already been measured by other
experiments and were found to agree with general relativity to much more
accuracy than the GP-B measurements. What GP-B brought to the table was a
direct measurement, as opposed to indirect measurements used by the other
experiments.
However, because the way they measured it pushed the limits of engineering, if
GP-B had NOT agreed with GR there is good chance the results would have been
dismissed as most likely due to equipment flaws.
While it is in general a good idea to confirm measurements, especially using
different techniques, in a case like this where the confirmation will be much
less precise than the other experiments and will likely be rejected if it
fails to confirm, you have to wonder why this was funded over other projects.
The answer to that turns out to be simple: politics. When space scientists
ranked all the proposed missions under consideration, GP-B came in dead last.
However, its proponents went to Congress, and got Congress to override the
normal process for prioritizing missions, forcing NASA to move it to the
front, ahead of more scientifically worthy missions.
There are a lot of very worthwhile scientific missions that we can't fly due
to budget limitations. It's a shame to see $750 million of the limited budget
go to a mission so far down on the importance list.
~~~
phlux
It is epic because he predicted this before any of the technical wizardry was
even in existence.
So, sure - the _proof_ may not be epic -- but the _prediction_ certainly is,
especially even moreso that he is correct (again)
~~~
jonnathanson
Einstein was so brilliant that his very name became a popular cliche. And yet,
the more modern science digs into his theories, the more we see that, if
anything, his brilliance is still _underrated_.
------
ColinWright
Same story, many comments:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2516510>
------
scottdw2
Did the experiment use a control? That is, did they put other gyros in places
where space time should not have been twisted and observe no deviation?
If not, how do they know that the deviation was in fact caused by twisting
space time?
~~~
guygurari
While I understand your thinking, what you're suggesting is not the correct
methodology. General Relativity makes a specific, quantitative prediction for
an effect. The prediction is not trivial, in the sense that the most
reasonable alternative theory -- Newtonian dynamics -- predicts there should
be no effect at all. (This is the null hypothesis if you will.)
The GP-B experiment measured this effect and found agreement with the GR
prediction. This does not prove that GR is correct; rather, it is a piece of
evidence that implies GR is more likely to be a correct description of gravity
than what we previously believed [1]. Because the prediction was quantitative,
it is unlikely that the result is caused by something else, which makes the
evidence in favor of GR that much stronger.
Now, control groups are often used in life sciences fields. For example when
you test a drug, you have a control group that takes placebo. It's not my
field but as far as I understand this is done for two reasons. First, there is
no quantitative prediction regarding how effective the drug should be, because
drugs are not understood so precisely. So the prediction you're testing is
much weaker; it's just a boolean. Second, there is a known effect -- the
placebo effect -- that can affect results. In other words your null hypothesis
is that there may be some effect. These things mean that, without a control
group, the evidence in favor of a drug's effectiveness is not very strong.
[1] That is not to say that we believed GR was wrong, but we can never be 100%
sure, and every piece of positive evidence strengthens the case.
~~~
waqf
Right, the efficacy of GR was being tested, and the control was Newtonian
dynamics. GR was found to successfully predict the results observed. The
control is to attempt to predict the results with Newtonian dynamics and check
that that prediction is less accurate.
If you accidentally did an experiment where GR and Newton predict the same
thing, the control would kick in and tell you that you hadn't proved anything.
------
wallfly
It would be interesting to find out if using Hans Montanus's non-canonical
formulation of GR (which involves a Euclidean metric and perfectly flat space-
time) would yield the same numerical predictions, just with different "book
keeping".
That would put a different spin on the notion of Einstein "being right" as I
think a lot of folks subconsciously equate GR with the "strangeness" of the
Minkowski metric and non-Euclidean space-time manifold.
------
catechu
From article: "The mass of Earth dimples this fabric, much like a heavy person
sitting in the middle of a trampoline."
I will never imagine general relativity the same way again.
------
known
My understanding is we should benchmark everything with
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light>
------
Vivtek
I initially read this "Einstein was right, announces results of epic space-
time experiment", which _would_ have been epic and a much more interesting
story.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Golden Age of Hollywood Tax Avoidance - graeme
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-29/hollywood-stars-didn-t-pay-90-percent-tax-they-created-loopholes
======
WalterBright
Left unsaid by the article is that the tax shelters the wealthy invested their
money in, were less productive investments. When Reagan lowered the tax rates
in exchange for eliminating the tax shelters, the wealthy then moved their
investments to more economically productive endeavors.
This makes for a more productive economy overall.
I.e. the higher the tax rates, the more contortions people will engage in to
avoid those taxes, and economic prosperity will correspondingly suffer.
~~~
rbg246
This argument relies on that it is impossible to stop rich people from
successfully evading tax.
I find it hard to believe in the age of tracking that we live in now that
banks and consumer transactions that it wouldn't be hard to implement proper
tax evasion tracking across borders. This is purely an issue of there being no
political will to do this.
It would be even easier to just cut off the tax havens from the global economy
- make it illegal for banks to conduct transactions with those banks /
branches located in those havens, strand those assets from the global economy
destroying the value of those bank accounts.
~~~
e3b0c
Imagine that we are designing an MMORPG world. We know that individual player
would seek to maximize their "gains" and to advance their ranking in the game
as a part of the gaming experience. Meanwhile, as the game operator, we don't
want the inequality to be too extreme between the top players and the casual
players so that no hopes for the newcomers to advance their ranking, which
hurts their gaming experience and they would quit for other games. But is it a
_wise_ idea to brute-forcibly transfer the 'wealth' of the most hardcore,
talented, or just luckiest players to the others to make the game more
enjoyable for the bottom players?
If we were thinking about it in a way that "you're not one of the players, but
the designer of the game," and you want the game to be sustainable and
reputable, I believe the answer would not just that simple.
~~~
JauntyHatAngle
I'm not sure that makes for a good analogy.
That is a game, I enjoy flaunting wealth over people and using my ungodly
strong power I've worked hard for to stomp on people in a game.
But I don't want to live on a monopoly board, or squash people into oblivion
in real life. Games are quite often about direct competition.
While there is some argument for making sure not to kill the motivation of
hard workers due to equalising society too far, I don't think the US is close
to that level, and the scale is far, far in the other direction.
Also, forcibly taking isn't correct, it's a progressive tax on income not a
raid.
I don't think this analogy works for a meaningful conversation.
~~~
e3b0c
My point is not about how an individual player gets their enjoyment from the
game. Some players would want to beat every other to the death, even in the
real world.
My point is individual player tends to complain how the game sucks from _his_
standpoint without second-thought about the consequences to others, to the
system, or even to themselves in the long run. I am more concerned about the
non-leaner responses from changing the incentive structure. For instance, what
would it turn out if, let's say, a gaming event where 90% of your income (EXP,
game money, skill points, etc.) would be redistributed to others in the period
of that event? Would anyone get excited about it? or people would say, "we
gonna work on other things and wait for the freeriding," which is the most
rational, economical decision for personal resource management. I would expect
that every player of the game would spend more time with their family and we
see drastically decreased MAU of the game as a result.
~~~
JauntyHatAngle
Ah yes, I misunderstood your point.
Perhaps because I tend to think of policy in terms of overall implication
rather than from my own standpoint.
------
pmoriarty
It's probably unthinkable for a lot of people these days, but the US once had
an income tax for those in the highest tax bracket of over 90%.
~~~
agent008t
Given that we are on HN, it is probably safe to assume most people here work
in tech, earning 2x-3x the median salary or more. Would you actually want to
be taxed at 90%?
~~~
AlexTWithBeard
I don't mind paying 90% on a top portion of my income.
But before we start collecting more money, I'd like to see existing money used
wisely.
New York City spends about 30k per homeless. And it's still not possible to
walk a couple of blocks in Midtown without stumbling upon a homeless person
sleeping rough.
New York subway has a budget of 8+ billion. London tube is about 2 billion.
I can keep going, but from the above I'm sure if we tax everyone at 101% the
government will still manage to run a deficit...
~~~
agent008t
Given that not a single person here has protested against the idea of a 90%
marginal tax rate, but some have expressed concerns about the funds being
spent inefficiently, why not impose a voluntary tax on ourselves and agree to
donate to charity 90% of earnings over a certain amount?
Surely there are some very good charities that do work in the area you are
most interested in - e.g. homelessness, educational scholarships, poverty in
general?
The added bonus is that a society where people voluntarily donate 90% to
charity is a much better society than the one where people get taxed. It means
a lot more when something is done voluntarily, and it changes the perceptions
on the side of the people receiving the help.
------
CPLX
So what. There’s tax avoidance and loopholes now too.
Whatever. The premise still holds fine, we could drastically increase marginal
tax rates at the top end and the world wouldn’t blow up.
And to the extent we used that money to make the social contract more stable
via health care and education or similar, there would almost certainly be net
gains to national efficiency and income.
~~~
opo
The actual tax burden has basically gone opposite of what you imply in your
many messages. The top 10% paid 49% of taxes in 1980 and the bottom 50% paid
7% of income taxes. In 2015, the top 10% paid paid 70% of incomes taxes and
the bottom 50% paid 3%. ([http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-
taxes](http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes)) The "top
marginal rate" means very little by itself. What matters is the effective rate
which takes into account the credits/deductions that are allowed, the other
lower marginal tax rates, etc.
Confiscatory high tax rates just result in politically connected groups
getting tax breaks, lots of money spent in less productive ways to avoid the
high rates and if those can't be done you get dead weight losses from economic
activity that isn't done. There is a reason countries moved away from
confiscatory high rates.
~~~
bitcoinbutter
Comparing what the top 10% paid vs bottom 50% is silly. The issue at hand is
wealth inequality. Clearly the top earners are paying much more in tax from a
clear dollar to dollar perspective. They own all the wealth.
Taxes are one of the only ways to curb wealth inequality within a capitalist
system. Any other ideas? The problem is that wealthy people can afford to set
up multinational tax avoidance schemes to avoid actually paying the amount
they should be paying.
One solution is to just jack up the rates. If 90% marginal rate on paper only
actually results in 45% being collected, then that's still better than 39%
marginal rate on paper vs. 15-20% truly collected.
Taxes and public spending are obviously not perfect, there are plenty of
inefficiencies throughout. Corruption must be targeted rigorously, otherwise
inequality will actually increase. But there needs to be a constant effort to
reduce wealth centralization.
~~~
opo
>...Comparing what the top 10% paid vs bottom 50% is silly.
That isn't what was done. The comparison is over time. The claim is often made
that the rich paid far more of a share of the taxes until Reagan lowered the
rates. The data shows otherwise.
>...Clearly the top earners are paying much more in tax from a clear dollar to
dollar perspective. They own all the wealth.
That is a somewhat simplistic and misleading way of describing the income tax
system. Income is not the same as wealth, etc. but also the US has a more
progressive tax system than just about any of the OECD countries. The top 10%
in the US make about 33% of the market income and pay 45% of the income taxes:
[https://taxfoundation.org/news-obama-oecd-says-united-
states...](https://taxfoundation.org/news-obama-oecd-says-united-states-has-
most-progressive-tax-system/)
>...One solution is to just jack up the rates. If 90% marginal rate on paper
only actually results in 45% being collected, then that's still better than
39% marginal rate on paper vs. 15-20% truly collected.
There are reasons NO countries institute such policies for long. It isn't
because high rates haven't been tried, it is because it ends up hurting the
country. You need only look at France's experiment with a 75% marginal rate
and a wealth tax in 2012 and was dropped in 2015.
>...French economist Eric Pichet in a recent academic paper has found evidence
of capital flight as a consequence of the French wealth tax, namely, that it
has cut French GDP growth by 0.2% per year.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonhartley/2015/02/02/frances-7...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonhartley/2015/02/02/frances-75-supertax-
failure-a-blow-to-pikettys-economics/#153b6a375df2)
>...But there needs to be a constant effort to reduce wealth centralization.
This probably isn't the only criteria that people should be concerned about.
If the top 50 tech companies in the US had been started in Europe instead of
the US, that would have measurably lowered the wealth inequality in the US but
most people would say the US is better off being a tech leader.
~~~
undersuit
> You need only look at France's experiment with a 75% marginal rate and a
> wealth tax in 2012 and was dropped in 2015.
Comparing France to the US in this situation is wrong. If people making more
than $10 million a year or with a wealth of more than $50 million are going to
leave the United States we have ways to handle this, namely the Expatriation
Tax, which France doesn't have. You need to compare France to an equal
situation like the US State of New Jersey applying a higher income tax and
losing their state citizens to fellow states in the collective federal
territory of the United States.
~~~
opo
>...If people making more than $10 million a year or with a wealth of more
than $50 million are going to leave the United States we have ways to handle
this, namely the Expatriation Tax, which France doesn't have.
I wouldn’t necessarily expect many people giving up citizenship, but I would
expect (as the article talks about) politically connected groups getting tax
breaks. I would also expect lots of money spent in less productive ways to
avoid the high rates and if people can’t avoid the tax, there will be dead
weight losses from economic activity that isn't done.
>...You need to compare France to an equal situation like the US State of New
Jersey applying a higher income tax and losing their state citizens to fellow
states in the collective federal territory of the United States.
No state has ever tried such a bad policy, but if they did, I would imagine
moving would be on the mind of everyone who might be affected by wealth taxes
and 75% rates.
~~~
undersuit
No state but New Jersey. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-jerseys-tax-gift-
to-florida...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-jerseys-tax-gift-to-
florida-1530481356)
Why are you so biased? High rates of taxation is not bad policy. Bad policy is
far more nuanced than that.
~~~
opo
>No state but New Jersey. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-jerseys-tax-gift-
to-florida...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-jerseys-tax-gift-to-
florida..).
Most people would agree that raising the max tax rate from 8.97% to 10.75%, is
not anything like raising the max tax rate from 45% to 75% - never mind that
France also instituted a wealth tax.
>...Why are you so biased? High rates of taxation is not bad policy.
All I’ve done is give evidence that countries have learned that very high
confiscatory tax rates are counterproductive. (Much as the original article
about Hollywood tax avoidance discusses.) You haven’t said what you mean by
“high rates of taxation” or give evidence why you think they are good - it
isn’t clear why you are accusing anyone else of being biased.
------
ableal
In case someone else goes after "[William] Holden insisted that Columbia pay
him no more than $50,000 a year", there's a concise biography here:
[https://www.britannica.com/biography/William-
Holden](https://www.britannica.com/biography/William-Holden)
------
thefourthchime
Ah tax avoidance. Richer you are, the better you get at it.
~~~
gadders
The richer you are, the more you stand to gain from it, so the more worthwhile
it is to do. And the more worthwhile to get expert advice.
------
crb002
Curious. Regan got burned as an actor with the obscene rates. Never viewed him
as having a personal beef before, now it makes sense.
------
peteretep
This is not a strong article. Consider:
> the top 0.01 percent in the 1950s paid not 90 percent but closer to 45
> percent of their income in taxes
I suspect 45% is a solid multiple of what rich people pay today
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Should the first world bother about Africa? - koushikn
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/first-world-problems-and-the-crisis-in-africa/
======
iwwr
Drop the subsidies and trade barriers and let African competitive advantages
lift them out of poverty. Drop aid to African warlords and governments (who
have a money incentive in maintaining poor, starving people). Stop getting
involved in local wars (disease and starvation are a direct consequence of
that).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Can I write a recommendation engine for HN? - kvh
Simple item-based (hackers who upvoted this article also upvoted...) and/or user-based (hackers who upvoted similar articles to you, upvoted ... ) recommendations would be cool to see on HN, possibly as a way to access (relatively) older content that one might have missed. this assumes people are actually away from the site long enough to miss something -- unlikely. addicts!<p>I think as the user base of HN continues to grow this can help keep things from approaching the LCD.
======
TJensen
HN is open-source. You could get the source and submit a patch.
~~~
csomar
Thanks for the info, is it written on PHP or PERL ??
~~~
stonemetal
It is written in Arc, PG's language in development. It is in the Lisp\Scheme
tradition.
------
aneesh
I like the thought of this, but you can't see who upvoted a particular
article, so it'd be difficult to make any sort of recommendation.
~~~
noodle
might be able to make some sort of greasemonkey script to make that happen.
~~~
BSeward
You won't be able to use Greasemonkey to surface information that is
inaccessible, like who upvoted what, unless I'm missing something?
You could write a Greasemonkey script that would would track what users who
have installed it have up-voted. Although that is not very elegant (users need
to be convinced to trust it and install it) nor effective (your dataset will
be self-selection-biased to that segment of the community), it would be a kind
of an interesting solution to play with.
~~~
noodle
yes, that second paragraph is what i was referring to.
its not the best or ideal solution, but its a solution that would make the
concept possible.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why S3 went down - slackerIII
http://status.aws.amazon.com/s3-20080720.html
======
sgrove
I think amazon is approaching this in the right fashion - when you have a
major outage, show that you understand exactly what the issue is, and why it
won't happen in the future. That's quite a while to be down, but their
openness, and what I perceive as honesty, helps me trust that they know what
they're doing. And like mixmax said, their detailed description and timeline
scores them extra points, instead of the usual corporate nothingness. We're
still planning on moving over to "cloud-computing", or "infrastructure-
outsourcing", and AWS still seems to be the leader in the field.
------
mixmax
They get a lot of points in my book by providing a reasonably detailed
description of the event instead of delivering the usual non-informative yada-
yada.
------
mechanical_fish
_On Sunday, we saw a large number of servers that were spending almost all of
their time gossiping and a disproportionate amount of servers that had failed
while gossiping._
This is my favorite sentence of the day.
Now every time I see that damned whale on Twitter I'm going to find myself
involuntarily crying out, "Oh, no! Failed while Gossiping!"
~~~
alabut
The converse is true too, when Twitter is up and running just fine. I'm going
to think of that every time I tweet - I _succeeded_ at gossiping and failed at
working.
------
ROFISH
A single bit was flipped? Cosmic radiation comes back and us all in the rear!
(Of course there's more reasonable reasons, but cosmic radiation is always my
favorite. :D)
------
holygoat
This is exactly the kind of RFO I would like to get from our telephony
providers after an outage. Detailed, honest (no point lying -- you just had an
outage!), and taking steps to improve matters in the future.
Everyone has outages: it's what you learn from them that counts.
------
DougBTX
That's a great bug, very nice "illness"-like behaviour. The spread of a
corrupt bit, infecting and taking down the host.
~~~
jacobbijani
Yeah, it almost read like a description of a virus.
~~~
briansmith
That is why gossip protocols are also called "epidemic."
~~~
jacobbijani
Thanks, I meant to look up gossip protocols after reading the article but
forgot. Your comment reminded me.
~~~
slackerIII
Does anyone know if there is a "best" paper that describes gossip protocols?
They were mentioned in the Dynamo paper, but they didn't really get into them.
~~~
pageman
try:
[http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs614/2004sp/papers/BHO99....](http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs614/2004sp/papers/BHO99.pdf)
and
[http://www.cs.cornell.edu/projects/quicksilver/public_pdfs/B...](http://www.cs.cornell.edu/projects/quicksilver/public_pdfs/BringingAutonomic.pdf)
both by Ken Birman
~~~
slackerIII
Great! Thank you very much.
------
newton
Can I point out that this explanation did not identify a root cause? How was
the corrupt message originally produced?
If they know how it happened, it's not reflected in this article. The solution
they describe addresses the detection of and recovery from future mysterious
occurrences rather than identifying, understanding and eliminating whatever
bug or condition caused this one.
~~~
attack
Memory corruption.
~~~
jordyhoyt
Right, it likely wasn't a bug if it is a single bit and this only happens once
in a blue moon. A machine can only transmit perfect 1's and 0's for so long
before getting one wrong.
~~~
jrsims
But they're adding checksums right? Anyone see any holes in that?
~~~
jordyhoyt
Do you mean this?
> we're adding checksums to proactively detect corruption of system state
> messages
I dobut that means they're actually _adding_ them together, they're adding
checksums to the process to ensure data corruption has no effect. Or am I
misunderstanding you?
~~~
michaelneale
They use MD5 in other areas, but not that particular message. So now they
will. Do people call hashes "checksums" in a colloquial sense? no one actually
uses a "check sum" literally any more do they?
------
brfox
What was Amazon's response when their storefront went down a couple months
ago? Were they this upfront about it?
~~~
sh1mmer
I think this is possible with developer relations.
Trying this approach with consumers could backfire horribly if someone
misunderstands the details or tries to twist them out of context.
That's a lot hard to do with a developer audience.
------
charlesju
I think that while it is unfortunate that Amazon went down, they handled the
situation properly. I'm sure that within a couple of years they'll hammer out
all the kinks in the system.
------
sanj
"By 11:05am PDT, all server-to-server communication was stopped...
By 2:20pm PDT, we'd restored internal communication..."
I wonder why it took 3 hours to clear state.
~~~
cperciva
_I wonder why it took 3 hours to clear state._
It didn't -- it took 3 hours to get all the machines talking again after the
state was cleared.
This is probably mostly due to two factors: 1. When doing a "clean restart"
Amazon almost certainly had each S3 node look at the data it had stored to
make sure that they had correct metadata; and 2. After each node had been
restarted, Amazon probably had to relink them gradually rather than all at
once -- most self-organizing network protocols have limits on the rate at
which nodes can join or leave the network.
~~~
curiousgeorge
Data integrity testing?
~~~
cperciva
_Data integrity testing?_
This question no verb? Or rather... I have no clue what you're asking, can you
clarify?
~~~
DougBTX
The question mark isn't being used to end a question, he's using it to ask for
confirmation of a statement. He's writing in a way that mimics how people talk
to each when they meet face-to-face.
For example:
Jack: I wonder what Jill's favourite flavour of ice cream is.
Sam: Chocolate?
Jack: Yes, that's the one.
------
beaudeal
i agree with mixmax in that i really appreciate them being open and
forthcoming about the problems, and giving detailed explainations -- on the
flipside, im wondering what the outage will do to potential customers and
those who are currently using the service...its a bit scary to think that they
are hosting some very serious businesses and everyone went down for many hours
------
marijn
Downtime? It was only an 'Availability Event', thank you very much. But yes, I
like that they provide details.
------
gaika
That's why git is using checksums as commit labels. It forces consistency
checks at every step.
------
pjf
Is it only me reading the message as "we don't actually know the reason, but
in an act of desperation we rebooted all of our servers and hopefully this
wont happen again"?
~~~
kaens
FTA: "We use MD5 checksums throughout the system, for example, to prevent,
detect, and recover from corruption that can occur during receipt, storage,
and retrieval of customers' objects. However, we didn't have the same
protection in place to detect whether this particular internal state
information had been corrupted. As a result, when the corruption occurred, we
didn't detect it and it spread throughout the system causing the symptoms
described above."
------
drawkbox
Someone checked in an infinite recursive loop.
------
tdavis
_Loose lips sink ships!_
(sorry, I had to...)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Analyzing VMware, Docker, and Kubernetes Trends - vegasbrianc
https://brianchristner.io/analyzing-vmware-docker-kubernetes-trends/
======
folkhack
Doesn't surprise me but I think that the VMware trend will flatten out because
there will always be a need for full system virtualization. I say this as a
huge proponent of both.
There's TONS of needs that Docker just can't cover whereas VMware kills it
(desktop virtualization ie: Windows, legacy systems, etc).
~~~
xen2xen1
Wait until Windows containerization gets in full swing. Between WSL, Docker
for Windows and Windows Core they're inching every closer to having real
embedded Windows in a container. They will do that, I think they have to.
Right now to run docker they literally have Linux in a VM, and the same for
WSL2. Even the new Microsoft can't handle doing that forever.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: PonziCoin, a transparent, decentralized Ponzi Scheme you can trust - vertoc
http://ponzicoin.co/
======
saalweachter
I am not a lawyer, but my gut says that a hilarious, tongue-in-cheek financial
crime is still a financial crime.
Any lawyers want to weigh in on whether you have some sort of first-amendment
right to parody crimes?
~~~
iaw
"Your honor, my client did not defraud the plaintiffs with a financial crime.
It was a parody financial crime but the plaintiff mistook the parody for
sarcasm and genuinely bought the parody product. This case should be dismissed
based on the parody financial crimes precedent set by Virginia v. Horwitz
Brothers"
~~~
ubernostrum
"Your Honor, my client never intended for the plaintiffs to cash the souvenir
checks he issued."
(it may be I spend too much of my non-tech-internet time reading
/r/legaladvice)
------
iaw
> We suggest shilling this coin heavily to your family and friends like a
> fucking sociopath.
That line made my day.
------
geoffreyy
> Q: Is this site secure?
> A: We use Equifax-grade security.
haha
~~~
mtgx
Government-grade security would've worked just as well, but probably most
people wouldn't get _that_ joke.
------
phyller
Clearly this person has minimal experience in fraud, this is a horribly set up
ponzi scheme. The investors can make a profit purely with their own actions,
and remove any ETH that is currently in there. I thought about doing it, but
don't feel like getting into cryptocurrencies and putting up $30K to get a
positive return.
The way you can rip this off is buy a bunch of coins at once, push up the
value, and then sell them all. You have to buy a maximum of 400 PonziCoins
before you can start making a profit, but then the more you buy, then cash
out, the more profit you make.
This is if the current price is .02 ETH per PC, which I've heard it's not
anymore.
+----------+------+----------------+
| numCoins | cost | return if sold |
+----------+------+----------------+
| 100 | 2 | -1 |
| 200 | 6 | -2 |
| 300 | 14 | -2 |
| 400 | 30 | 2 |
| 500 | 62 | 18 |
| 600 | 126 | 66 |
| 700 | 254 | 194 |
| 800 | 510 | 514 |
| 900 | 1022 | 1282 |
| 1000 | 2046 | 3074 |
+----------+------+----------------+
Worst case scenario is the price has just gone up, and you need to buy 100 PC
to make the price double. But immediately you can sell for half your cost,
instead of 1/4 because you made the price double. Do this again, but now you
have twice the number of coins to sell, you are already breaking even on your
first batch. Next round you make money on your first batch, break even with
the second, lose with the third. But the fourth round you are making so much
from the first and second rounds, breaking even with the third, and only
losing half of your fourth, that you come out ahead.
You can't make money forever, you will just take all ETH that has been put in
before, which will be a small amount. Then nothing is left and it will be
bankrupt until someone else puts money in. But it's a guaranteed way to get
your own money back, _if_ you can afford to go at least 4 rounds, _if_ it
works exactly as the site says, and _if_ no one cashes out coins before you
do. The risk is that someone waits and cashes out after you put your money in
and before you have cashed out, you have to do your transactions all at once
to be successful.
I don't know how this works behind the scenes, I don't advocate for any of
this, and I won't be trying it myself. I also am a little disappointed to
realize I may have provided the best argument yet to make this thing go. So
don't put your money in there, you are probably going to lose it.
------
socialist_coder
UPDATE:
> This has gotten crazy out of hand, I apologize but we will no longer be
> selling PonziCoin on this site because this was a joke. I cannot terminate
> the contract but I will not be selling any coins that I own.
The Buy button is disabled on the site. Also, if you checked the eth contract
you will see it has basically $0 in it, down from over $175,000. I think what
happened is that the BUY button was disabled on the site, the message added,
and then people started dumping their coins and it was all gone.
[https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae2342...](https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae234217a03502bb4)
------
kgwgk
Warning: this is a scam. The real one is at
[https://ponzico.win](https://ponzico.win)
------
lpage
This has seen ~$10,600USD worth of love so far [1]. The contract source is
comedy gold [2].
[1]
[https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae2342...](https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae234217a03502bb4#transactions)
\- accessed at Wed Jan 24 16:10:39 EST 2018
[2]
[https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae2342...](https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae234217a03502bb4#code)
~~~
guiomie
Is this a well coded contract? Also, how come is the source code available? I
thought only bytcodes were pushed to the EVM ?
~~~
lpage
Etherscan has an option for linking the source [1], in which case they compile
it and verify the result against the bytecode that's publicly available.
Edit: the source itself is based off of [2]. The custom part is ```contract
PonziCoin...```. It's well written in the way that all Solidity code is well
written...
[1] [https://etherscan.io/verifyContract](https://etherscan.io/verifyContract)
[2] [https://github.com/humaniq/ico-contract/](https://github.com/humaniq/ico-
contract/)
------
fictionfuture
SEC as the symbol was my favorite part:
------
badosu
I wonder if there's liability for the author when people get damaged by this
------
qwerty456127
Great news. I have always believed Ponzi and alike schemes should be as legal
and available as any other kind of gambling and lottery as long as the people
introduced are well informed abut the nature of the scheme and the risks it
means. I know some people who had participated in a distributed Ponzi scheme
consciously and with notable success while I don't know a single person who
had won anything above $2 in a lottery.
~~~
dragonwriter
> I know some people who had participated in a distributed Ponzi scheme
> consciously
Unless they were _running_ the scheme, it can't have been a Ponzi if they, as
participants, were aware of its structure. Presumably, you mean a pyramid
scheme.
~~~
qwerty456127
Yes, a pyramid scheme, but Wikipedia still calls it a Ponzi scheme. I mean
this one:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM_Global](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM_Global)
I don't recommend it, I also know many people who have lost their money of
course though I still think it's much better than a lottery: the whole thing
about profiting from it is investing humble amounts you can afford to loose
and withdrawing at the right moment, that's a lot like fishing or trading
BitCoins.
------
cobookman
This was done with Ponzi.io a while back. Founder shut it down as they were
afraid of breaking laws.
~~~
Nummeros
There are ponzis on Ethereum that are impossible to shut down
~~~
Retric
Difficult not impossible, killing Ethereum is one option.
~~~
rthomas6
And how would one go about killing Ethereum?
~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _how would one go about killing Ethereum?_
Arrest founders, freeze exchanges and seize their ether or cash proceeds of
ether sales recently completed. Subpoena their records and trace ownership to
natural persons; if they don’t surrender their ether or pay a fine they go to
jail. Trace IP addresses to scare a few more people; rinse and repeat
periodically. Bonus points if you do it only for ether, thereby giving people
an exit to other cryptocurrencies and allow people to voluntarily surrender
ether for a token, capped tax write-off.
The U.S. government has lots of experience thoughtlessly banning things in an
overreaction, and with limited exceptions ( _e.g._ the war on drugs) it’s more
or less worked.
------
gruez
>The World's First Legitimate Ponzi Scheme
I'm pretty sure this was done before. As a dapp even.
~~~
Nummeros
Yup. For example here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3g6ccj/these_are_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3g6ccj/these_are_the_first_ever_verifiable_pyramid/)
~~~
45h34jh53k4j
It also got hacked because the contract was broken.
Its fine -- those that do not learn the histories of the past are doomed to
repeat them
~~~
Nummeros
Huh? How was it hacked?
------
zerostar07
I mean, a real decentralized ponzi should not have a centralized founder. It
should randomly reassign the owner of the contract (is that possible?) or at
least the premined to a random member.
Now that is a ponzi i could trust
~~~
Torgo
Contracts don't have a native concept of ownership, but you can code access
controls that are keyed to a variable that contains the allowed account
address.
------
DoreenMichele
_Q: Is this a scam?
A: It's as much a scam as 99% of the ICOs out there, but it's more transparent
about it._
If only real life had such easily spotted scams. "Warning: This is a scam"
labelling would be so helpful.
------
slimshady94
Can you see how many tokens have been bought till now?
~~~
terhechte
[https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae2342...](https://etherscan.io/address/0xe3f64dc522a66405c51d96aae234217a03502bb4#readContract)
There's $9,047.32 worth of ETH in the contract already. Price seems to be 0.08
ETH
------
BLanen
This isn't the first. Not by a long shot.
I remember these 'transpararent ponzis' from years ago.
~~~
econner
Yea, ponzi.io was one.
Screenshot from 2014:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20140208200431/http://ponzi.io/](https://web.archive.org/web/20140208200431/http://ponzi.io/)
------
atentaten
Awesome! Just bought 100K worth.
------
toddkazakov
The white paper is great
------
hndamien
This is a pyramid scheme and not a Ponzi. I'm disappointed.
------
frinxor
This is fantastic. Cant lose more than 75%? I'm in
~~~
sushid
You can lose more than 75%. If there's no ETH in the wallet they can't pay you
back out.
~~~
vertoc
I made a spreadsheet to figure this out and the reason I dont mention that
risk more is that is only at risk of happening after around 900 tokens are
sold - until then the contract will always enough ETH. If 900 tokens are sold,
the contract will have over $100k worth of ETH which I really hope never
happens.
~~~
phyller
It could be emptied out after 400 coins, not 900. If there is already money in
there it would take a little more, not much. Unless my math is wrong.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16226641](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16226641)
Reproduced here with more columns, assuming initial price of .02 ETH per coin:
+----------+----------+-----------+------------+-------------+
| numCoins | coinCost | coinValue | sell price | Profit/Loss |
+----------+----------+-----------+------------+-------------+
| 100 | 2 | 0.01 | 1 | -1 |
| 200 | 6 | 0.02 | 4 | -2 |
| 300 | 14 | 0.04 | 12 | -2 |
| 400 | 30 | 0.08 | 32 | 2 |
| 500 | 62 | 0.16 | 80 | 18 |
| 600 | 126 | 0.32 | 192 | 66 |
| 700 | 254 | 0.64 | 448 | 194 |
| 800 | 510 | 1.28 | 1024 | 514 |
| 900 | 1022 | 2.56 | 2304 | 1282 |
| 1000 | 2046 | 5.12 | 5120 | 3074 |
+----------+----------+-----------+------------+-------------+
Also the guy said he has 200 coins to use whenever he wants
------
thrillgore
Finally, an honest pump and dump ICO for me!
~~~
stcredzero
PumpNDumpCoin?
------
agitator
The white paper made my day. haha
------
aakilfernandes
That logo is fantastic
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Path-finding simulator for grid based games - adito
http://qiao.github.com/PathFinding.js/visual/
======
sokoban
My Sokoban game with path-finding for boxes.
<http://sokoban.ws/sokoplayer/SokoPlayer_HTML5_en.php>
------
sciolizer
I found a bug.
A*, Chebyshev, Allow Diagonal:
WWWWWW
GWR
WWWWW
Optimal path should go underneath, but the simulator chooses to go over.
~~~
teamonkey
A* isn't guaranteed to find the best route. Since the algorithm stops as soon
as a route is found, a bad heuristic can make it find a relatively poor path.
------
eaurouge
Neat! I was just researching SVG and Canvas for a drawing application.
Apparently SVG performance degrades as you increase the number of objects but
it can handle changes in scale (zooming in for instance) much better than
Canvas can. It seems you've gone with SVG (Raphael) for all your rendering.
Have you seen any performance degradation in your tests?
------
fridek
I like how it shows that bi-directional search is way faster than one-way.
It's something that you may easily miss during AI class.
~~~
ErikD
It's not faster in all cases. You can construct mazes on which bi-directional
is a lot slower.
------
hartror
I love how with a little experimentation and no prior knowledge of these
algorithms I was very quickly able to produce paths that produced sub optimal
pathing with each of the algorithms. It really highlights how bad relative to
humans our algorithms are at this sort of thing.
This is a fantastic learning tool in many ways.
~~~
orangecat
Hmm, A-star is supposed to be optimal. Can you describe how you tricked it?
Edit: never mind, I didn't see all the options. Using Manhattan distance when
diagonal moves are allowed causes the heuristic to be invalid, so you can make
it take an L path instead of a diagonal if the diagonal path would force it to
move slightly backwards at the start.
------
roryokane
Warning: the Reset button doesn't just reset the colored squares, but also
deletes the walls you have drawn. I have made a pull request with button
labels that make that more clear:
<https://github.com/qiao/PathFinding.js/pull/3>.
------
bluecalm
I am a noob on this AI stuff but it seems to me that heuristics would be
better if they take into account distance to the target without being
permitted to go through already visited nodes (so they can only go through
unknown nodes treating them as empty) Say this example:
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
GBR
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
(switch off diagonal for stronger effect)
Shows how badly A* and best first algorithms suffer from open spaces problem
and would benefit from that change. I realize that computing such heuristic
exactly would be costly but even something like 2x weight for nodes already
visited in straight line to the target would improve it a lot.
~~~
keeperofdakeys
The algorithms themselves are almost unaware of a path, they simply visit
nodes, check their neighbours, then continue with another node from the queue.
Breadth First Search simply does this in a predictable order, but of course it
isn't prioritising nodes closest to the goal; that's where the other three
come in. Every node has a path cost, how many moves it took to make it to the
node. You can also define a distance heuristic, that calculates geometric
distance to the goal as a strict underestimate. All these algorithms simply
exit when the goal node is reached, and a path has been created by the
algorithm.
Dijkstra, or also known as Uniform Cost Search, will pick nodes with the
lowest path cost from the queue first. This works well on graphs, but not so
well on open spaces. It should be mentioned that this algorithm is complete,
and optimal. That is, it will find a path if one exists, and it will find the
path of lowest path cost (note there may be many such paths of equal path
cost).
Then we have A _, which is also complete and optimal. This uses the sum of
path cost and distance heuristic. This means it will nodes closer to the goal,
but long-windy paths will confuse it.
Finally we have Best First Search. It should be mentioned this is actually a
family, of which Dijkstra and A_ are members. In this program, it only
considers distance heuristic. So nodes that are geometrically closer to the
goal are evaluated first. It should be mentioned that it isn't optimal - it
might not find the path of lowest cost. If the optimal path requires at first
winds away form the goal, these nodes aren't considered until later, or maybe
never.
------
hwiechers
I thought A* _was_ Best-first-search. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best-
first_search>
Can someone explain the difference here?
~~~
keeperofdakeys
Best-First Search is a family of algorithms. Specifically, it picks the best
candidate node that has been discovered. A* and Dijkstra/Uniform Cost Search
are in this family.
In this website, Best-First Search uses only the heuristic distance function
(distance from current node to goal, in terms of coordinates). This means it
will prioritise nodes geometrically closest to the target first. In most cases
this works well, but paths with lots of twists that are close to the goal will
get longer paths. This also means it isn't optimal (returns the path of lowest
cost), whereas A* and Dijkstra/Uniform Cost Search are optimal.
Now Dijkstra/Uniform Cost Search only considers path cost to prioritise nodes,
and A* considers the sum of path cost and heuristic. This means they do find
the path of lowest cost.
------
dpcx
As someone who doesn't fully understand these algorithms, are these algorithms
the same as what's used in GPS/mapping systems, and potentially even internet
routing systems?
~~~
keeperofdakeys
These kinds of algorithms wouldn't be good for mapping systems as they are -
they would send you through lots of side streets. You want to travel on main
roads where possible, so you need to 'layer' them (highways, main roads, side
streets). You would also try to cache data, which with different layers, might
work well.
As for internet routing, I do think they use Dijkstra and Bellman–Ford quite a
bit.
~~~
dbaupp
They would work, just not using the obvious heuristic/distance of physical
distance.
One could use travel time (smaller roads are slower) or some more complicated
weighting which could take into account the size of the road, speed limit, and
even include parameters that allow the user to adjust how much it biases
towards large roads (for example).
------
Drakim
I find it very fascinating how horribly bad A* is at finding it's way though a
spiral shape. Some of the more primitive algorithms did better.
------
glogla
This is interesting. I wonder whether the perceived (in a few minutes of
testing) superiority of best-first-search with Chebyshev is some feature of
the implementation or fact, because they "forgot" to tell us about both the
algorithm and the metric in AI classes.
~~~
_delirium
Chebyshev distance is the right metric to use if you can move on a grid
horizontally/vertically/diagonally, which is the case here. Manhattan distance
corresponds to h/v but no diagonal movement, and Euclidian distance
corresponds to arbitrary non-gridded movement.
(That said, which one functions best _as a heuristic_ can vary problem to
problem.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you find new products? - mikey077
Hi,<p>I and co are currently at the start of our YC journey but have a couple of questions that will help us going forward.<p>How do you find new products? We are interested in the process you go through to discover new products.<p>What I mean by _new_ products is anything that has been released recently. It could be literally anything based on your needs, preferences, hobbies or lifestyle.<p>Thanks,
M
======
J_Darnley
Typically network effects (people discussing them on the internet) lead me to
an interest in something which I then go and download. Did you want something
more specific?
------
eli
I don't understand the question. I buy new products in stores or online... Are
you looking for a specific purchase I made and how I came to select the
product?
------
mikey077
eli,
Apologies for causing confusion. We are interested in how you search for new
products. Let's use in store and online as examples, what is the process that
you go through? Less so on product selection and more on discovery. If that
makes sense.
Thanks
------
joefarish
www.producthunt.com
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Internet Archive raises National Emergency Library: 1M free books no waitlist - mekarpeles
https://www.cnet.com/news/internet-archives-national-emergency-library-has-over-a-million-books-to-read-right-now/
======
sayhar
This is a big deal
~~~
mekarpeles
Thanks @sayhar! specially given so many libraries across the country are
currently shut down.
------
Rebelgecko
legally, how are they able to do this with books that aren't public domain?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Not to Explain Success - davesque
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/opinion/sunday/how-not-to-explain-success.html
======
davesque
The associated journal article, unfortunately, appears to be paywalled:
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886915...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886915301227)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Elixir Streams - pgr0ss
http://blog.drewolson.org/elixir-streams/
======
phamilton
When people say Elixir is just syntactic sugar on top of erlang I point them
to Stream and Enum. It's a great example of how polymorphism via protocols is
an enabler for powerful designs.
~~~
MCRed
Elixir is so much more than syntactic sugar... but you can't deny that it's
also very, very sweet.
I think it's the best language out there-- the power of erlang and OTP and the
fun of, well, elixir. It's more fun than Ruby and Python.
~~~
rozap
That's the best way to describe it. The concurrency model and metaprogramming
bits mean that effortless to make cool stuff with it. And it turns out that's
way more fun that wrestling with the jvm or other high friction tools.
There's a lot of neat stuff in Elixir, and the community is great too. I
honestly it may be the first functional language that becomes widely used.
Hopefully.
------
doomrobo
Interesting to see this as a novel thing in another ecosystem. Rust actually
uses "stream" manipulation as a default way of dealing with things that might
otherwise be expressed as full data structures. For example, the equivalent to
one of the code snippets in the article would be:
BufReader::new(File::open("myfile.txt").unwrap())
.lines()
.enumerate()
.map(|(i, line)| format!("{}: {}", i, line.unwrap()))
.take(1)
.next().unwrap()
(formatted for non-monospace font readability). Note the .unwrap() is where
error handling should normally happen.
~~~
meowface
The problem with "stream/generator as default" is the boilerplate you
constantly have to add.
In Python 3, for example, map() returns a generator. So you can no longer
transform a list into another list with `new = map(func, lst)`. You have to do
`new = list(map(func, lst))`. One of the most subtle gotchas when upgrading
from 2 to 3 is having to wrap list() around functions and methods like map(),
range(), dict.items(), etc.
Discussion I've seen about Rust on less moderated websites often seems to make
fun of the .unwrap() spam seen in a lot of programs, to the point of the
mockery even dominating some discussions.
Streams and lazy evaluation are really nice, but sometimes you just want some
nice procedural handling.
~~~
icebraining
All the boilerplate you need to add is
lmap = lambda f, l: list(map(f, l))
somewhere in your project, then use new = lmap(func, lst)
~~~
Willyfrog
One has to wonder why this is not included in the functools or some other
module.
~~~
icebraining
Dunno, to promote generators? I'd say people often convert to list for no good
reason, so adding friction might discourage that.
Then again, map() and friends are not exactly the recommended way, list
comprehensions and generator expressions are usually preferred by the BDFL.
------
_nato_
I wonder what the Erlang equivalent would look like (passing around data that
are funs)?
~~~
davidw
I'm mostly an Erlang guy, but I do like that about Elixir: they really seem to
be taking the Erlang base, and building on it in some interesting ways.
~~~
mjs2600
That's the macros. Phoenix's routing is an awesome example of the power of
Elixir macros. It leverages the BEAMs pattern matching capabilities to do the
routing, but the syntax is very clear and concise.
~~~
Skinney
Minor nitpick. BEAM doesn't have pattern matching built-in. Core Erlang does.
Core Erlang compiles to BEAM bytecode with functions using regular if-
statements. So basically: Erlang/Elixir -> Core Erlang -> BEAM. (Actually, I
think there is one more step there).
~~~
asonge
Minor nitpick to the nitpick, since I dug down in Elixir's compiler before.
Elixir spits out a normal Erlang AST, not a Core Erlang AST, which is a bit
different. There are a half dozen levels between the Erlang AST and BEAM as
well. There's several instances of a talk by Robert Virding about implementing
languages on the BEAM where he talks about which advantages different levels
of the compiler to hook into.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Art of the Propagator (2008) [pdf] - davexunit
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/6.945/readings/art.pdf
======
JadeNB
In Higher-order Perl
([http://hop.perl.plover.com/book](http://hop.perl.plover.com/book)), MJD
introduces local propagation networks, and says of them:
> If you’ve ever seen a discussion of local propagation networks before,
> you’ve probably seen the Fahrenheit-Celsius converter example. There’s a
> good reason for this: It’s one of the few examples for which local
> propagation actually works.
([http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/09DeclarativeProgramming...](http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/09DeclarativeProgramming.pdf),
logical p. 487, Section 9.2.2). Since I value his opinion, that makes me
sceptical about developments in propagators; but, then again, Sussman
certainly knows what he's talking about! Was MJD's opinion never true, or is
it no longer true, or does it remain true (but presumably with caveats)? EDIT:
Or, alternately, am I misunderstanding the relationship between this paper and
the networks that MJD discusses?
~~~
davexunit
I don't know enough about propagator systems to know if there is a mismatch
between what MJD and GJS are talking about. I do know that GJS's propagator
model does more than the simple Farenheit-Celsius conversion problems (this
example is actually in SICP chapter 3, but not in this paper), such as
tracking the reasons why cells hold the data they do and withstanding logical
contradictions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Save the CR100 - userbinator
https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510
======
amiga-workbench
I'm getting really sick of appliances depending on smartphone apps, they're
brittle as hell and have no longevity as OS updates kill them off (and
eventually as mobile OS's die completely).
I had a right faff on finding a IP security cam that didn't use the bloody
awful onVIF protocol and would connect to a network without a mobile app to
configure it. I take care of remote access myself, so I don't need the
"feature" of having my video streams routed through a server in china so I can
view it on the go.
I had the same issue with RGB lighting controllers for my shelving and
bookcase, in the end I had to settle on a ESP8266 based controller and figure
out the protocol with wireshark, I now have some of my lighting operable from
a webpage on my home server.
I really wish there were a decent, privacy respecting hub that could be used
for controlling all of this kind of gear.
~~~
berryg
Do you mean something like [https://home-assistant.io](https://home-
assistant.io)?
~~~
amiga-workbench
Yeah, that's almost exactly what I'm after.
------
bambax
I bought my first Sonos elements in 2006, and used to love them.
I still use Sonos, for lack of a better option (?) but have come to hate it,
the devices, the company, the whole "ecosystem", with the heat of a thousand
suns.
It updates constantly, you can't ever refuse an update, updates stop the
system just when you need to use it, change the UI for no reason, and every
update breaks something. Every single iteration is a little slower; I used to
keep an oldish ipod touch just to manage Sonos but now it's so slow it's
almost unusable.
Since 2006 my use of Sonos HAS NOT CHANGED AT ALL: mp3s are stored on a Nas
and they're played in various "rooms"; and sometimes I listen to radios; and
THAT'S IT.
Of course Sonos as a company has to support new streaming services and
whatnot, but why does it have to break everything in the process, or force all
users to upgrade? Why can't it leave us alone??
Every 6 months I try to look for an open source alternative, maybe based on a
Pi (+ relay to power up amps on demand) but have not been very lucky so far.
Am very interested in any pointers to something simple to implement and that I
would completely control.
~~~
christoph
I have exactly the same feeling. It feels like every time I go to cook in the
kitchen and open the app on my phone, it brings the update process up.
Numerous times, i've lost connectivity entirely, which seems to only be fixed
by deleting the app from my phone, re-installing, signing back in, going back
through the basic pairing process. It just makes me want to throw the whole
thing out. It's beyond maddening!!
Why can't it support bluetooth without purchasing the stupid bridge? Sometimes
I want to watch Netflix when cooking and have the audio come out the system.
Somebody should bring out a decent competitor to fix these issues. I'd buy it
in a heartbeat.
------
icebraining
Context: the new firmware upgrade for Sonos speakers will drop support for the
CR100 controller.
[http://www.techradar.com/news/sonos-finally-kills-off-
cr100-...](http://www.techradar.com/news/sonos-finally-kills-off-
cr100-controller-and-long-time-fans-arent-happy)
\--
I have to wonder why. Planned obsolescence is an obvious answer, but if the
new "standard" methods for controlling the speakers are smartphones or Alexa,
it doesn't seem like they gain much from the switch. Is the protocol used by
the CR100 that much of a pain to keep supporting? It makes me wonder about
their software development practices.
~~~
joelhaasnoot
They're also claiming in the forum thread it's because of battery issues
(battery getting older, more at risk for device to malfunction, etc). Seems
like a bad reason to brick a device (and was likely made up once it was
decided not to support)
------
eecc
The first effects of a world of end-to-end encrypted media streaming. You
don’t own the content, you don’t own the hardware, you can’t play whatever you
want, you just pay and go with whatever happens to be there. You can change
channels like a Radio, that’s about it
~~~
abraae
Isn't that life anyway? We're only on earth for a short time. You can't take
your music to the grave with you, so why not accept its never really yours
anyway?
~~~
pedrocr
This isn't about accepting it's "not really yours". This is about accepting
it's actually someone else's that then has control about what you can and
can't do. That entity will often be on earth for even a smaller time than you
before it goes bankrupt or loses interest in that product. So you get to spend
your short time on earth dealing with product obsolescence instead of owning
your stuff while you're alive and even being able to pass it on to your
children. It's a terrible bargain.
------
starsinspace
So, end users are now figuring out why it's bad to buy into such proprietary,
closed systems. I can fully understand the outrage. Unfortunately I find that
most people don't care if you warn them about such things beforehand.
Any product that relies on a manufacturer-only provided online service of any
kind to provide its functionality, will simply stop functioning whenever the
manufacturer feels like it (or goes out of business, etc). Oh, and it will
also most likely not care about your privacy, but that's a given these days.
Also, any product relying on a closed-source smartphone app (using proprietary
protocols to communicate with the product) will also become increasingly
annoying as time passes. At some point, the app won't get updates anymore, and
some time after that you'll have to keep a special old smartphone around just
for the purpose of running that app. Sounds great, eh?
On the other hand, many 30, 40, 50 years old electronics products still work
fine today, and can be used, as they were self-contained, and wholly owned
(and fixable) by the user.
p.s. the fact that ageing batteries are cited as reason by Sonos also further
shows what a stupid idea it is to put non-replaceable batteries into products.
I really hope that regulation will finally end that practice soon.
------
bambax
> _due the age of the battery in the controller, it has the potential to
> overheat when left charging for extended periods of time_
This is some argument on Sonos' part! The reason why the battery in the CR100
is "old" is because Sonos chose to build a device with a non-replaceable
battery!!
If they're so concerned about safety why don't they offer to replace the
batteries (for a reasonable fee)??
~~~
ZenoArrow
According to some of the posters in that Sonos forum thread, aftermarket
batteries are available for the CR100. What I'm not sure about is how easy
they are to replace, but it's clearly possible for some users.
~~~
kirb
It’s not hard to replace; probably the hardest part is separating the
adhesived back rubber cover and then sealing it again after. The battery uses
a modular connector.
[https://en.community.sonos.com/advanced-
setups-229000/guide-...](https://en.community.sonos.com/advanced-
setups-229000/guide-to-changing-the-cr100-battery-5216)
------
ohazi
> due the age of the battery in the controller, it has the potential to
> overheat when left charging for extended periods of time
...uh, what? I assume I'm missing something here, because this doesn't make
any sense. Can someone explain?
~~~
jacobush
It's pretty common. It never "finishes" charging, instead however many watts
of the charger gets dumped as heat, indefinitely.
~~~
ohazi
But this is why lithium ion batteries need special lithium ion charging
circuitry in the first place... If you don't have this, the cells will happily
take as much energy as you give them and then promptly catch fire.
It doesn't make sense to me that this would only now be a problem. Either the
circuit was designed correctly, and this excuse is bullshit, or they should
have issued a recall ten years ago.
------
stryk
Their main concern sounds like a liability issue (they cite the aging Li-ion
battery heavily). They're not selling it anymore, so why not bundle together
some internal docs and release some sort of technical manual or detailed
repair guide to give users the option of replacing the battery? Of course this
would be a "you people are on your own if you screw it up" but that's to be
expected.
~~~
usrusr
> Their main concern sounds like a liability issue (they cite the aging Li-ion
> battery heavily)
Gratuitous power autonomy is quite high on my "things I won't buy" list. I was
once scouring Amazon et al for some cheap bluetooth speakers for stationary
use as a "poor man's Sonos", but they all came with their own integrated power
bank. Ended up buying a radio that had BT input just as a secondary feature.
About three times as expensive as originally planned, only to avoid seeing one
more 18650 (or pair thereof) idling into decay under my watch.
I'm not always that eco-aware, but when I get stuck on an issue I tend to get
irrationally zeaolous (probably a quite common form of mild bigotry)
------
filmgirlcw
I’m against bricking devices arbitrarily, but this product was more than 12
years old and hadn’t been sold since 2009 (I had one in 2006 when I was still
in college and Sonos’s killer feature for me was that it worked with the
original streaming music service, Rhapsody). Frankly, giving customers $100
credit seems kind to me. Plus the CR200 still works and they don’t have plans
to brick it, so there is that.
I feel for some of the users, but reading some of these complaints makes me
roll my eyes. I’ve owned lots and lots of electronic devices over my life —
and many audio systems — I can’t recall any other connected system having 13
years of support.
~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I think what we're trying to rail against here is that why should 13, or
whatever, years be an _acceptable_ figure.
My car is older than that. My toaster over is old, I've had CRT TVs that were
much older before they died.
I'm gonna go with a big fat juicy 'No!' here. We ought to be building for
longevity and serviceability. Don't end support, just open it up. Publish the
relevant source code, documentation etc.
We shouldn't accept that it's ok or _normal_ to dispose of a thing just
because it is X years old.
~~~
filmgirlcw
It’s an accessory. If we were talking about the speakers themselves, I wouldn
be more sympathetic, but in this case I’m just not.
The reality is that the nature of connected devices makes things different.
This isn’t the same as a CRT TV (but also, look at how much it costs and how
difficult it is get parts for a CRT in 2018). And like it or not, your next
car won’t be as repairable as your current 15 year old car, because it will
require custom software and bench access and updates that most mechanics will
not pay for or maintain.
At least these Sonos users have the option of not installing an update. This
isn’t like Revolv where it just stopped working.
The CR100 uses Flash IIRC...it is absolutely ancient. I’m not sure we should
be realistically asking development teams to maintain separate code bases for
old, obsolete software. Google and Amazon changed backends that made the CR100
stop working. Are you saying that that’s a travesty too?
Legit question: how long should any company/service be required to add
backward compatibility to old, obsolete products?
I fundamentally agree that we should be building for longevity and
serviceability, but that isn’t always possible. The platform and stack the
CR100 was built on is not modern and cannot be easily maintained. And even if
the software was open source (which would be great), that doesn’t change the
fact that if the endpoints on the services it relies on change, nothing can be
done.
The only reasonable compromise I can see would be an update that would allow
the CR100 to continue to work only with local files. Otherwise, at least users
can opt not to update if they rely so heavily on a 13 year old controller.
~~~
wwweston
> And like it or not, your next car won’t be as repairable as your current 15
> year old car, because it will require custom software and bench access and
> updates that most mechanics will not pay for or maintain.
Noting that the automotive market is increasingly opening itself up to the
kind of obsolescence problems the software industry has never bothered to come
to grips with (indeed, is to some extent _actively against solving_ , from
incentives at the business level to personal disinclination on the part of
most programmers) isn't exactly a resounding counterpoint to worries about how
software problems are affecting less crucial hardware devices.
> Legit question: how long should any company/service be required to add
> backward compatibility to old, obsolete products?
There's a point in here that's legit: perpetuity is a high bar, most products
don't last forever. But there's also an extent to which this question is
largely a dodge of the real question: what is "old"? Why do we accept or feel
forced to accept a decade or shorter timeline?
> we should be building for longevity and serviceability, but that isn’t
> always possible. The platform and stack the CR100 was built on is not modern
> and cannot be easily maintained.
You know how we talk about code smells? (Or maybe we don't anymore, it was
always a weird term and maybe it's _so_ early 10s now). Pretty sure the word
"modern" when it comes to software should be understood as a "thought smell."
_Every_ platform/stack _any_ software is built on will be "not modern" by
software standards in well under a decade, and is quite likely to grow more
difficult to maintain over time. An acknowledgement of the value of longevity
and serviceability doesn't mean much while implicitly accepting software-
related value choices that mean longevity and serviceability remain not only
difficult to attain but difficult to _conceive_ of.
> And even if the software was open source (which would be great), that
> doesn’t change the fact that if the endpoints on the services it relies on
> change, nothing can be done.
If the software were open source, when endpoints change, the threshold for
continuing utility is whether there's a developer out there somewhere who
cares enough to work on it. Or could be made to care by consumers bearing
cash.
------
egeozcan
As far as I understand, it all works in the local network. It shouldn't be too
hard to create a server to translate its calls to the new api (that the
smartphone app uses), no?
edit: I don't understand why you'd down-vote this. I'd love to correct it if I
said something blatantly wrong, just tell me. Also, I wasn't dismissing this
as a non-problem, but rather questioning if there'd be an easy solution. My
parents are also affected BTW.
~~~
meschi
Yes, but i don't think this is an option for the people complaining.
~~~
egeozcan
I was asking to see if there's anything I'm missing. I was thinking about
doing this myself. Sorry for not being clear - please see my edit.
------
duncan_bayne
... and once again, Stallman (and the FSF) are proved right.
[https://xkcd.com/743/](https://xkcd.com/743/)
If you buy into a proprietary ecosystem, especially a DRM-encumbered one, and
doubly-especially a streaming one, don't be surprised when the inevitable
happens and your non-ownership of any part of the system bites you.
I speak from personal experience. I lost some of my small Kobo library when
they dropped support for their Web reader, and I closed my account (no support
for my everyday / work laptop).
~~~
icebraining
I'm an FSF supporter (technically FSFE), but I think we should be careful
about these claims. It's not like open source projects never drop features.
You could say "yeah, but they wouldn't be forced to upgrade" \- but neither
are the users in this case, as the reply says.
What the users here want is to continue getting the new features and fixes of
the new versions of firmware, while keeping support for the CR100. Even with
the source, that would require someone to integrate those two parts, which
might be prohibitively expensive.
Don't get me wrong, I think they should have the right to do that if they
wished, but it's not like it would just fix the problem; it would only allow
them to fix it if they could afford it.
~~~
alerighi
With free software no one can shut down a service like they are doing. A
product will continue to function and it will continue to receive updates as
long as there is enough interest by the open source community in that product.
Let's take for example Android smartphone, there are some old smartphone that
thanks to the community are still updated to the latest version of the OS, on
the other side when Apple say it's done you take your outdated iPhone and toss
it in the bin, no one can continue to support it.
~~~
icebraining
They aren't shutting down a service, they are updating a product.
Specifically, they are releasing a new version of the speakers firmware that
removes support for the protocol used by CR100.
All you wrote regarding Android is true, and that's why as I said I support
the FSF and Free Software in general, all I'm saying is that you can't take
that community for granted. Maybe someone would appear to re-add support for
the CR100 to the new firmware - or maybe nobody would.
------
akras14
Death by redesign... [https://www.alexkras.com/death-by-
redesign/](https://www.alexkras.com/death-by-redesign/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Just how bad is the Valley economy - willheim
So last night (Sunday October 24th) I was watching 60 minutes and they had a 20 minute segment on how the SV/San Jose area was in complete and utter economic meltdown. They were talking about the 99ers (99 weeks unemployed) and interviewed all these PhDs and other qualified older people who had lost their jobs, couldn't find another, and had burned through savings.<p>I've looked at moving there but wonder now just how bad the local economy is. Here on HN it's all rosy (bootstrapped but rosy) with VC cash being talked about every day.<p>What's the real story? Seems people can buy homes in San Jose for far less than renting in SF.
======
mechanical_fish
I used to work at a fab in Fremont. It was one of several Silicon Valley fabs
that are now no longer operating in the Valley. Its owner at the time,
Agilent, cut eight to nine _thousand_ jobs in the early 2000s:
[http://news.cnet.com/Agilent-plans-more-
layoffs/2100-1006_3-...](http://news.cnet.com/Agilent-plans-more-
layoffs/2100-1006_3-959167.html)
Last year Agilent, which is still a big area employer, cut another 2700
people:
[http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/layoffs-hit-thousands-at-
ibm-a...](http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/layoffs-hit-thousands-at-ibm-and-
agilent-why-is-high-tech-getting-hit-so-hard/)
It is worth remembering that Silicon Valley's first name is "silicon" for a
reason. The area made its name with hardware and fabs. The folks in the area
who are fifty and sixty years old are proportionally more likely to have
extensive experience in hardware and fabs than in web development, and many of
the fabs are closing down. Moreover, because it took a lot of people to run a
fab -- more in the past than today -- there are a _lot_ of those people.
Yes, life here on HN is great, but that's because of the tiny sample size. For
example, what is the total number of people who have been employed at _any_ YC
startup over the last decade? I bet it doesn't add up to eight thousand
people.
So it depends on your skills. If you want a job running a lithography tool on
a production line your job prospects are different than if you want a job
writing Ruby apps for a YC startup.
------
iamelgringo
From Mountain View to San Francisco, there are dozens of startups that have
gotten funded in the last 9 months. I'd be willing to be there will be another
3-4 dozen that get funded by the end of the year.
The vast majority of those startups are Web/Mobile/Social/Gaming startups.
Take 100 startups with $500k in the bank looking for one two three
(web/mobile/flash) developers and you have a rough idea of what the hiring
market is like in SF. Add Facebook, Linked In, Twitter, Yelp and Google
starting to compete more heavily for engineers, and you'll start to see why
recruitment is going to get a lot tougher in the next year or two for
startups.
From Mountain View South to San Jose and in the East Bay, the startups have
traditionally been more hardware/silicon oriented. Those industries have been
consolidating a lot, and those companies have been laying off people. It's
people that come from those industries that have gotten laid off.
The 60 minutes episode talked about the San Jose area, and if you read the
article [1], it primarily talks about older workers who were in PR, office
managers, personnel, etc...
All that to say, is that after we get funded, we're going to be staying in San
Jose. Office space is cheaper, housing is cheaper. It's a lot easier to get
around by car. There's parking for less than $20/3 hours. And, there's a lot
of experienced talent that's looking for work.
ref: [1]
[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/21/60minutes/main6978...](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/21/60minutes/main6978943.shtml?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel)
~~~
hga
Also, how many silicon startups have there been as of late?
In general terms, it's my impression that the days of the US VC funded, high
capital requirement hardware startup are over with the closing of the IPO
window.
Lots of HN style consumer internet companies can hope to get bought by Google,
Facebook, Twitter, whatever, or just thrive on organic growth since their up
front capital costs are relatively modest.
As I keep asking, who's going to be able to create the next thing like FPGAs?
(As least in the US.)
------
pg
What? The biggest problem startups we've funded have is hiring.
~~~
malandrew
pg, I see that there is a page for jobs at YCombinator companies, but it is
very empty with just one job at BackType listed:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/jobs>
Are there more positions you are hiring for that are not listed there?
~~~
pg
There are a lot more. I need to fix the software that drives that page. For
various stupid reasons it only shows jobs posted in the last couple days.
~~~
owkaye
If you need someone to fix it for you I can certainly use the work.
Sometimes it irritates me to see so many people apparently complaining about
the shortage of competent / qualified programmers these days. I'm more than 50
years old with nearly two decades of professional experience as a programmer.
I ran my own outsource programmer training center in Asia for several years
and we ran more than 200 trainees through the system before we closed.
I also have an additional range of business experience that might come in
handy to a future employer, especially in a company run by people much younger
and less experienced than me.
And I'm not afraid to put in 12 hours days for weeks on end when it's
important to the company.
But I never see any job listings for people who can bring what I want to bring
to the table. Instead I typically see complaints about startups not being able
to find qualified engineers. Yet I've been back in the USA for more than a
year already, and so far I haven't been able to get a single startup to
consider hiring me.
Is it my age that puts them off? Or should I be looking for work with
companies other than startups? Or am I looking at the wrong startups?
Or should I just do my own startup and stop trying to help with someone
else's?
~~~
malandrew
I'm not criticizing, but just giving my two cents here to give perspective.
The problem with being 50 years old is not being 50 years old, but coming
across as acting 50 years old.
Startups don't need someone who can manage an outsource program to train 200
employees. They need someone who can ship. Someone who is implementing
features and building product value.
Culturally startups today want to stay small because that's a competitive
advantage that allows pivoting until you either have a home run business model
or can be acquired by a larger competitor.
I don't know you or your situation, but instead of calling attention to what
you did in the training center in Asia, tell the community about what you've
built. What's in your GitHub profile?
As far as training is concerned it's better to train a half dozen brilliant
rock solid (as opposed to rock star) programmers that can ship.
I think it's absolutely awesome that you are programming to this day and
willing to put in the 12 hours, but I think it's better to see that zeal for
training to use trying to creating a hardcore team of "special forces"
developers instead of a whole platoon of "grunts" or "marines".
The people who want what you have offered to bring to the table are
enterprises. If you want to go after startups, you need to start focusing on
startup scale projects. If you are talking about more than 6-8 devs on a team,
it's already too large.
On top of that, it's important to be building teams with balance, just like a
small special forces team in the Navy Seals or Army Rangers. You need to be
able to train and lead people that complement each other and can build a whole
product, front-end, back-end and everything in between.
Again, I'm not judging you here. Just putting in perspective that what you are
offering in your reply is not what I see the HN community asking for.
------
beunick
I saw the piece as well.. pretty depressing. A start-up migth not have the
money to hire an old qualified PhD... I am not if an old qualified PhD will be
interested either.. Almost feels like we have 2 worlds in the valley
~~~
willheim
I don't know about that. One of the most depressing bits was an engineer who
just took a job at Target for $9.50/hr.
There were also plenty of office managers and others whom I would assume could
bring forth plenty of skills that a start-up (funded) could employ.
Particularly in sales, one would think.
------
anonymous245
Link to article:
[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/21/60minutes/main6978...](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/21/60minutes/main6978943.shtml)
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Machine VM + Cloud API - Rewriting The Cloud From Scratch - losvedir
http://highscalability.com/blog/2010/10/21/machine-vm-cloud-api-rewriting-the-cloud-from-scratch.html
======
gruseom
Given that there have been a few sprouts of Forth talk on HN lately, it's
worth mentioning that an application-specific OS (written in an application-
specific language) running on bare metal is sort of the quintessential Forth
idea. Running it in the cloud, on virtual bare metal, would of course be Forth
heresy, but still worth trying.
~~~
mahmud
FWIW, every innovation in PL research coming out in the last 40 years can be
considered anti-Forth, including binary security, strong-typing, platform
independent code, modules, streams, exception handling and what have you.
I just went through Ertl's dissertation for the third time in as many years,
and my impression is that Forth stands somewhere _beside_ formal theories of
programming languages, not within. His dissertation provides 3 implementations
of forth, just as Dybvig provides 3 for scheme. The two papers are nearly
identical in scope; showing different implementation techniques for a tiny
kernel language. However, the Forth paper is entirely in C and assembly,
without the slightest hint of formal semantics or any other mathematical
reasoning. It's a hack upon glorious hack. You can't reason about Forth code
without FULL abstract execution, to wit, implementing a full Forth VM with
side-effects, or emitting 3-address-code, or some other linear tuple IR, and
using traditional techniques from register-based languages with variable
assignment.
Having said that, I can see why Forth might be fun, as a soul-cleansing
language for a programmer who has spent too long in abstraction. Haskellers
should use it to bring themselves down a notch [ _grumble, mumble mumble,
something rude, under my breath_ ]
[Edit:
Oh fuck, I forgot about Factor!
I pre-accept defeat, and retract my possibly under-informed arguments if and
when Slava shows up to this discussion :-)
If his opinion differs, I don't think I am qualified to disagree with the
sharpest dude hacking on a language implementation today, and Forth domain
expert to boot]
------
gmcquillan
This is an interesting concept. However, I think this article needs to define
its target audience better. It seems to be speaking specifically to people
doing web hosting (which you may or may not argue includes all of LAMP use-
cases).
The idea that we can forgo operating systems because there are APIs to call
doesn't make sense if your company heavily invests in infrastructure.
Sometimes you need low-level access to hardware to fine-tune performance and
scalability because your use-case is not the general use-case, even in a
"cloud" environment.
------
wmf
Previous discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1762210>
------
mahmud
LtU discussion:
<http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4095>
------
jacques_chester
I posted a related thesis here a while ago:
[http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/10/shared-hosting-is-
doomed...](http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/10/shared-hosting-is-doomed-and-i-
have-the-graphs-to-prove-it/)
That the complexity of shared hosting would make it uneconomic vs VPSes in the
long run.
------
jhrobert
Would be cool if it were javascript (it's OCaml), with nodejs I guess...
~~~
mahmud
The fact that it's not an everyday "job language" should really entice your
inner "programming pervert"; hard to explain, but there is something erotic
about seeing fringe languages in industrial applications. I would happily
setup a SAP cluster if it had, say, a Forth repl hidden in one About box. I
wasted countless hours in Excel, which I abhor, after it was mentioned in some
numeric computing paper. And is there a better opportunity, on a boring
weekend, than an oopsing Unix box with nothing critical on it :-)
Don't hesitate to delight yourself, no one will do it for you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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iOS 7 Accessibility Improvements for Switch Users - shawndumas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ_nyIwep0k
======
shawndumas
"Tecla is a set of tools that provides access to mobile devices, such as
smartphones and tablets, for those who are unable to manipulate them due to
disease or disability.
With Tecla, you can take control of your mobile device using the interfaces
you are already familiar with, such as your wheelchair driving controls or
adapted switches."
[http://komodoopenlab.com/tecla/](http://komodoopenlab.com/tecla/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Process is Poison - redprophet
http://blog.gosquadron.com/process-is-poison
======
karmajunkie
TL;DR — Process bad, automation good.
I agree with half of that.
The problem in the article is that the example team didn't "pop the why stack"
enough. "Engineer screws up a deploy. Why? <insert wrong command, lazy
practice, knowledge gap, etc here> Ok, let's automate all the things!"
Automation is great—its not an incorrect response to reduce the surface area
for what can result in an error. but automation in turn depends on another
process. Continuous deployment? Great idea—but it depends on your tests. How
do we know your tests are good? Code review! Another great idea—but also its a
process.
Process isn't bad. Being a slave to process is bad. So is being a slave to
automation. What happens to your continuous deployment when the new guy throws
up a server to spike something (creating a snowflake) and it accidentally gets
put into rotation for deployment as an app server, which now fails on it?
process is fine. it allows automation. use both intelligently.
~~~
greenyoda
Also, this article is limited to web-deployed applications - "deployment
happens with the latest good build every so often" \- which is the simplest
possible deployment scenario. When you're not in the web-based world, your
customers decide when and if to upgrade on their own schedules; there are beta
test cycles; there are maintenance releases and hotfixes, each with its own
branch in version control. Management is involved in deciding whether Release
23.07 should be delayed because big customer X found a bug. If you don't have
a process to keep this stuff flowing smoothly, it just doesn't work. Sure,
large parts of it can be automated, but the rest relies on lots of big and
little decisions made by people.
~~~
dclusin
I agree that the author has a webcentric view or experience gained primarily
from web development. For most web apps the cost of an individual failure is
essentially zero. In that sort of scenario tolerance of bugs is much higher so
you can get away with playing fast and loose with process. If you look at
industries where the result of a software failure is someone getting killed[1]
then you will find lots of process. This process isn't there just for the sake
of having process. It saves lives.
1\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25)
~~~
greenyoda
You don't even need to go as far as software that can kill people to find
examples where bugs can be very expensive. A failure (wrong data, system down,
etc.) in any software that a company depends on to operate its business can be
very expensive to the company (e.g., a hotel can't take reservations for an
extended period of time during a busy week, or a supplier sends a million-
dollar piece of equipment to the wrong country). And it can also be very
expensive for the software provider if their customer ditches them for a
competitor's product.
------
forgottenpass
Squadron, you can make a much better case for your product than resorting to
such vague and meaningless pablum.
Yes process has overhead, can have bugs, or can be incorrectly or incompletely
executed. Yes, it's nice to make it easy and reliable, automation is part of
that. No, it's not poison.
_An error in engineering is costly, people and dogs can die._
Yes, you're right. But if you want to use death as rhetoric, you really should
have something against process beyond an explanation that process can be
deficient. Go to a company where user death is an actual risk and tell them
that that process is poison and you'll get laughed out of the room.
------
peterwwillis
My favorite thing is when there is lots of automation, but nobody knows how
the hell it works (because it's been around for 3 years chugging along
obediently) and nobody's wanted to look at it (because it's an ugly horrible
mess of 'just ship' code) and it just happens to be the single automation that
controls whether or not critical customer updates get verified before they
ship (wait for it) and now we have to ship (of course) and now it's broken (of
course) and nobody has a clue how to fix it (of course) because process is
kind of annoying.
If your automation works perfectly, you still need process to make sure your
automation works perfectly, and fix it when it doesn't.
------
donquichotte
That may work for software people. If you to have a production line running,
you have more problems: documentation may be there, but the personnel might be
unaware/unable to understand it. Some things might be impossible or very
difficult to automate. If you train them, they might forget the next day. I'm
still looking for good ways to implement constantly changing manufacturing
requirements that need to be understood by real people.
------
JoeAltmaier
The error in saying process is bad, is simply that its also subject to human
error.
But process is refined over time. It may have a wrong step, but then you fix
that and now it doesn't. That's the point: you write down what you should do
so you don't do the wrong thing again.
I'll go further: automation is bad because a human may have made an error in
writing the automation code. See what I did there?
------
bentcorner
Process is fine when used intelligently. One of the things it allows you to do
is standardize across large teams how things are done. You can also predict
what people are going to do if there's a process (ok, bob opened a bug against
that other group, I know they have a next-day triage process to look at it so
let's sit and wait to see what they say).
------
semerda
Automation is a by product of Process. Automation hides (and outsources to a
machine) the complexities of certain Process(es). When one decides to automate
the Process is a question of debate and usually revolves around some sort of
Opportunity costs. In the end Process is Great since it sets boundaries
(rules) and leads to Automation.
------
VladRussian2
know places where even poison taking follows strict process.
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