text
stringlengths 44
776k
| meta
dict |
|---|---|
If You Harvested Body Heat from 44,000 People You Could Mine 1 Bitcoin per Month - mgliwka
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vby7ny/bitcoin-body-heat-mining
======
Bucephalus355
Worth noting that the Matrix was originally supposed to be about harvesting
CPU power from humans, not about using us as energy batteries. Concept was
changed by the studio to make it easier to understand as this was all before
cloud computing.
I think that was dumb, but must remember audiences were so different in 1999.
The Matrix was incredibly complicated for most people then, and they didn’t
have the benefit of all the summaries and even academic texts we have on it
today.
Also If you go back and read reactions to the marketing of the Blair Witch
Project at almost the same time, many people, while not believing it fully,
had a tough time understanding it was 100% a marketing campaign.
~~~
shagie
On the 'harvesting CPU power'... give the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons a
read. I would put it up there as one of the greats of science fiction.
~~~
berbec
Agreed 100%. That series (4 books unless there's another sequel out) had such
a consistently excellent storyline, characters and innovative usage of
technology. It's not for the faint of heart, but well worth the 2k pages.
------
gus_massa
> _An adult human body generates approximately 100 watts of power while at
> rest, and about 80 percent of this power is wasted as excess body heat.
> [...] on average the volunteers each contributed about 0.6 watts /hour of
> energy._ [1] [2]
> _What about mining Bitcoin in an ideal scenario, where the generators were
> perfectly efficient and able to harvest all 80 watts of excess heat produced
> by the body?_
For this calculations, it's not enough to use the energy/power numbers. You
must consider the entropy too.
To transform the heat into some useful energy form like electric energy, there
is a limit of how much you can transform by the Second Law of Thermodynamics
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics)
The maximal efficiency is 1 - T_cold / T_hot (in Kelvin). In this case, T_cold
is the temperature of the environment, that we can assume is some comfortable
value like 20° (293K, 68°F). And T_hot is the body temperature that is
approximately 37°C (310K, 96.8°F). So the maximal efficiency is 1 - 293K/310K
= 5.5%.
If the heat produced by the body is rest is 80W, the maximal amount of it that
can be collected and transformed to electricity (in a very optimistic
scenario) is 4.3W. They are collecting only 0.6W. It's imposible for
theoretical reasons to collect the 80W. [3]
[1] I'm not sure how the other 20W are dissipated. As heat?
[2] "0.6 watts/hour of energy" doesn't typecheck
[3] You can give the volunteers some drug to increase the temperature to 40°C
(313K, 104°F) while keeping them in a freezing environment 0°C (273K, 32°F)
This will increase the maximal theoretical efficiency to 12.7% (that is still
much less than 100%). Anyway, no sane ethical committee and/or insurance
company would approve the project.
~~~
keerthiko
> [1] I'm not sure how the other 20W are dissipated. As heat?
I would guess as chemical potential (stored in ATP, manufacturing and
converting proteins, endorphins, hormones and other bodily chemicals),
electrical signals (nervous system, muscle responses, brain activity) and
kinetic energy (blood flow, heartbeats, diaphragm, other internal organ
movements). Some of it is probably also internal temperature regulation for
different regions of the body, but maybe that's all in the 80W. eventually
> [2] "0.6 watts/hour of energy" doesn't typecheck
I ran their numbers, and I think they meant 0.6 kWh (which _is_ a unit of
energy, unlike watts/hour) -- 212 hours at 127.2W over all the volunteers, for
37 volunteers is around 0.7kWh per volunteer. Some of their numbers might be
more or less accurate than the others
> [3] You can give the volunteers some drug to increase the temperature to
> 40°C (313K, 104°F) while keeping them in a freezing environment 0°C (273K,
> 32°F) This will increase the maximal theoretical efficiency to 12.7% (that
> is still much less than 100%). Anyway, no sane ethical committee and/or
> insurance company would approve the project.
But the robots that will administer our future society while plugging us into
the matrix would ;)
~~~
gus_massa
About [1] All the energy in the ATP is eventually released. Unless you are
gaining weight or doing some mechanical work that is permanent (like lifting
boxes to the floor above you) almost all is released as heat. Perhaps some
energy is used to evaporate water, this may be important.
About [2]: Thanks for looking at their numbers. But they can't collect an
average of 127.2W because the maximal power that can be transformed to
electricity in this conditions is about 4W-5W. Also, the article claims that
they get less than the 1%, but I'm worry that in the press article they just
divided (0.6 watts/hour)/(80W) < 1% (ignoring the units).
------
bdcravens
Worth noting that this article is from January 2018. Since then Bitcoin
difficulty has increased about 2.5x (was as high as around 3.5x at one point)
so you'll need more heat.
------
yipeedipee
Time for the Matrix style pods so I can get all the coins ;)
------
shinta42
Matrix
------
airza
Life would indeed be easier if I could reverse the laws of thermodynamics
~~~
berbec
Just ask Maxwell's demon!
------
cheeze
Don't give China any ideas...
~~~
dang
Please don't post nationalistic flamebait, or any flamebait, to Hacker News.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pat - A Sinatra style library for Go - gourneau
======
michaelwww
<https://github.com/bmizerany/pat>
------
skram
Awesome - thanks for sharing!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Shoelace formula - jonbaer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoelace_formula
======
jguffey
For those who, like me, need to visualize such a method- I found an explainer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KjG8Pg6LGk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KjG8Pg6LGk)
------
travisjungroth
I worked at a company, HouseCanary, writing software for doing home
appraisals. We used this formula to calculate the square footage of a home
based on a computer drawing. The funny thing is that for an appraisal, you
have to show your calculations. We thought showing the points and a shoelace
formula whitepaper would be enough. It wasn't. So, my boss wrote code that
dumps the whole calculation onto a pdf so someone who works in lending can say
"that looks right".
~~~
selimthegrim
Do you no longer work there for publically divulgable reasons?
~~~
travisjungroth
I got a job as a software engineer at another company. Came with a title bump
and raise.
~~~
selimthegrim
Glad to hear it. A friend who still works there as far as I know was singing
their praises to me at a wedding a couple of years ago.
------
giornogiovanna
If you rewrite this method in terms of determinants, then it also has the
bonus of generalizing correctly to arbitrarily many dimensions! And it also
gives you a nice picture - imagine adding and subtracting simplices with one
point at the origin (triangles in 2D, tetrahedra in 3D).
~~~
sleavey
Came here to ask about 3D. Weird that the article doesn't mention the 3D or
n-dimensional case.
~~~
phkahler
Here is my answer to 3D from a long long time ago.
[https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1838401/general-
formula-...](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1838401/general-formula-to-
calculate-polyhedron-volume/1849746?noredirect=1#comment93093356_1849746)
Another interesting thing about the metrix in that answer. If you invert it,
the rows become the coefficients for the plane equations of the faces. You
also don't need to fully invert it - IIRC the adjoint is sufficient.
------
chicob
I use this in measuring field areas. Like the text reads, this is Green's
Theorem.
The area of a triangle ABC can be determined by doing the cross product of any
of the vectors that are the translation from a vertex to another (e.g. AB⨯AC =
|AB|.|AC|.sin{^BAC}). More rigorously, this is the area of a lozenge, which
then has to be divided by two.
Imagining a point X inside a convex polygon, it is easy to see a set of
triangles with vertex X in common.
In fact, the polygon can not only be concave but point X can be outside the
polygon, since the sine will compensate for negative and positive angles,
subtracting any weird triangle out of the sum in the end.
Computationally, the point X should be as close as possible to every vertex,
so that rounding errors are minimized.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A list of over 4000 fintech startups and companies - pankmahar
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1akR9F_JfVEvOleXn_mUB9hKmmtm5-1V8iQmhAWTqTc8
======
zucchini_head
Being serious here: What exactly is a "fintech" company? Every financial
company on earth that isn't in someone's backyard is at-heart now purely
technological (computers, algos, tracking, databases, etc.). So what makes a
"fintech" company? Is it a super _ultra_ technological bank?
In summary, what are fintech companies exactly doing?
Part of me believes it's the new version of "crypto-", but i will hold my
breath.
~~~
LeonM
The definition seems to be wide. My 'fintech' startup [0] focuses on automated
bookkeeping, but depending on who you ask, automated bookkeeping is or is not
regarded financial technology.
[0] [https://parsey.nl](https://parsey.nl)
~~~
Roritharr
Nearly same boat here. We're based in Frankfurt where everyone is talking
about FinTech so its natural to call our Accounting/Bookkeeping/Billing AI
Startup [0] a Fintech, but to me initially the term was reserved for startups
that process creditcards or do algotrading. I'm content now to use the term as
long as its helpful.
[0] [https://www.fastbill.com](https://www.fastbill.com)
~~~
tekism
This is off topic. But what do you use to generate the api documentation? It's
very clean, love it.
[https://www.fastbill.com/api/fastbill/en/fundamentals.html#i...](https://www.fastbill.com/api/fastbill/en/fundamentals.html#intro)
~~~
Roritharr
This was a homegrown solution by a student that worked for us. It's not auto
generated and quite frankly painful to maintain as it just generates this html
in php via parsing xml files. We're looking for alternatives at the moment
too.
------
nathan_f77
Thanks for the list! I'm working on a service [1] that has many customers in
the finance and insurance space, so these are some great leads. Your list of
insurance startups [2] is also really helpful.
Here's the folder containing lists of startups in many other categories [3].
[1] [https://formapi.io/](https://formapi.io/)
[2]
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KnEcpYOuLl2d9k9wjWIg...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KnEcpYOuLl2d9k9wjWIgbaencKpoBfaXs-
QoGoIGovk/edit)
[3]
[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fURgn2ulbqz3H6inuio_...](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fURgn2ulbqz3H6inuio_xknhKzqM3sHk)
------
pankmahar
Thank you all for your thoughts.
Thank you for your submissions soon your startups will be added to all
relevant lists.
Anyone can add their startup by
[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSezN1Ipnj9GrFPGYqAg...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSezN1Ipnj9GrFPGYqAgFn3cTWlpCF8t_SIYmF07AHVmemNc3Q/viewform?usp=sf_link)
Startup lists by "Location" are coming soon. Keep checking for more lists and
updates on your favourite one
[https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-CjBzfvjlKROXpnuFWiIwxrDyi...](https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-CjBzfvjlKROXpnuFWiIwxrDyimx3Elz)
Pankaj
------
buildbuildbuild
Startups by category:
[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HS_SL6tbbRrAoTrA72Ko...](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HS_SL6tbbRrAoTrA72KoLY9FF6uyxNjI)
Investors: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3motcInTen-
jGBBwtp_...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3motcInTen-
jGBBwtp_fBntrWq26NdxkPzyt7-W8bY/edit#gid=2129198371)
An interesting resource and huge undertaking. A radically libre approach to
Mattermark's vision. Thanks Pankaj.
~~~
pankmahar
You've keen eyes. I feel like I know you. Simply Thanks
------
cprayingmantis
Nice to see nCino on here, which is the company I work at. We're hiring by the
way: [https://www.ncino.com/culture-careers/job-
openings](https://www.ncino.com/culture-careers/job-openings)
------
Sambdala
Funny enough my non-fintech failed (shuttered) company is listed here, but my
more-or-less fintech company that's actually profitable and raised a bunch of
money isn't listed.
Probably because we concentrated more on PR/Press on the first one...
------
zitterbewegung
This is a great list! If I were you I would make it into a website and add
some basic filtering capabilities. Also, filtering by category in each list
would be interesting.
------
juditbogos
I am new to this forum and wondering what are the benefits for a startup to
add themselves to a list like this? can someone please enlighten me? Thanks!
------
snowAbstraction
Nice List. You missed Itiviti which has its office in the same building as
Cinnober.
------
thisisit
Amazing work. I am sure it will help some people in need for leads or ideas.
~~~
pankmahar
Glad to hear that It will help.
------
ll931110
Nice job! It would be nice to filter options (by location or services).
~~~
tw1010
Ctrl-f
------
jtreminio
How would I download this? On my 2015 MBP it slows to a crawl.
~~~
buildbuildbuild
Unfortunately the author has not made it available for download. Would be
interested to hear his comment on this decision.
~~~
petercooper
You can download it. It's just Google's weird UI. Click on "more
spreadsheets", then go into the folder called startups or whatever, then the
fintech folder, then click on the fintech spreadsheet once, then the '3 dots'
at the top and "Make a copy" and it'll copy the file to your own Drive where
you can download or edit to your heart's content.
~~~
buildbuildbuild
Good find, thank you.
Can't help but think this is a flaw in Google's copy protection
implementation, given that copy/pasting and exporting within the spreadsheet
itself are disabled.
~~~
petercooper
Yeah, I'm not sure - Google's UI doesn't make it clear (to me, at least). I'm
assuming the original link is just a special "view only" link that takes the
menu bar away.
------
sbussard
EveryDollar (4074) is in the Nashville area
------
fellellor
This is a great list. Kudos to the author.
------
samnwa
When all the smart people are working in finance, we are fucked as a society.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stamper: An Artboard-Oriented Creative Coding Environment - bobbiechen
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3334480.3382994
======
faizshah
Prototype link: [https://p5stamper.com/](https://p5stamper.com/)
Glad to see they used Processing. In high school I introduced my CS classmates
to Processing after hearing about it on The Creative Coding Podcast. We made
tons of games and interesting simulations like the popular boids algorithm for
birds and a classmate made the game Worms. I remember using it in a CS class
in high school to implement minimax with alpha/beta pruning for Othello. It’s
a great environment to teach and learn coding in. Dan Shiffman wrote some
great books to teach Processing from if you’re interested.
~~~
timClicks
Shiffman's "The Coding Train" is one of the best video tutorial series on
YouTube. It's an absolutely incredible resource.
------
yepthatsreality
> Use Chrome on a desktop please!
No, test in other browsers please!
~~~
paulgb
This is unnecessarily negative for something that is presented as being in the
prototype stage. Testing on multiple platforms out of the gate impedes
experimentation.
(As a Firefox user, I agree that the launched version should support other
browsers, of course!)
~~~
yepthatsreality
It’s not negative. It’s actually a positive that people running other browsers
would like support. I just widened his potential user base for future
experiments. Just because it’s a criticism doesn’t immediately indicate tone.
Arguably only developing for Chrome is what is impeding experimentation by not
allowing it to be run on other browsers.
------
applecrazy
It's interesting how the poster (at least, the submission seems like a
conference poster) doesn't even mention one of the most important and
commonly-used pieces of prior art in this medium: Xcode's Interface Builder
storyboards. In fact, they work very similar to what the authors created:
there's links between boards (representing segues between screens), links
between UI and code (IBOutlets and IBActions).
~~~
lallysingh
From a research perspective, is it novel? Would it really be the appropriate
resisted work to reference to other researchers in the field?
------
Rotten194
Interesting! Reminds me of the Unity shader graph editor -- the visualization
of in-between nodes of the computation graph. For example:
[https://blogs.unity3d.com/wp-
content/uploads/2018/02/image2....](https://blogs.unity3d.com/wp-
content/uploads/2018/02/image2.jpg)
~~~
andybak
That's pretty similar to every node-based shader editor I've seen - and in
turn shader editors are similar to other of node-based environments where
there's a graphical output (compositing software springs to mind)
(Not being difficult for the sake of it. I think it's important to focus on
the things that make Stamper different to similar tools)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs - prostoalex
http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-u-s-pays-more-than-other-countries-for-drugs-1448939481?mod=e2fb
======
a3n
> The upshot is Americans fund much of the global drug industry’s earnings,
> and its efforts to find new medicines. “The U.S. is responsible for the
> majority of profits for most large pharmaceutical companies,” said Richard
> Evans, a health-care analyst at SSR LLC and a former pricing official at
> drug maker Roche Holding AG.
Consider two people who go to a care provider. Person A has health insurance.
The insurance company has negotiated a lower than "full" price to be paid for
care. Person A is basically happy.
Person B has no health insurance, and no negotiating power. Person B pays the
full price.
America is person B, the uninsured party. For some reason we refuse to band
together for a better deal.
------
pravda
Whenever I read the comments below an article like that, I always wonder
exactly the mechanism by which the pharm industry gets their talking-points
inserted.
Do public relations firms have full-time employees to get their talking-points
in? Freelancers?
Is it pharm employees in the spare time? Do they all get the same PDF from
Luntz Global?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Searchmysite.net – a simple search for the non-commercial web - m-i-l
https://searchmysite.net/
======
m-i-l
There have been a lot of comments on HN recently about how the advertising
funded search model is broken and how hard it is to find all the fun and
interesting content from personal websites and blogs[0], so I've built this to
try and fix that. Innovate features include (i) only listing sites submitted
by validated site owners, (ii) detecting and downranking pages with adverts,
and (iii) a (proposed) funding model of a listing fee and/or search as a
service fee. For more information on the tech stack, go to
[https://searchmysite.net/](https://searchmysite.net/) , search for
"searchmysite.net", and click on my post which should be near the top:-) Bear
in mind that it is very new, with only a few sites listed so far from the good
folks in the IndieWeb community. The things I'm hoping to get out of the Show
HN are: (i) feedback on whether it is worth spending any more time on, (ii)
thoughts on whether the search for independent websites or the search as a
service is more useful, and of course (iii) more submissions because the more
content there is the more useful the search should get. Other feedback,
questions, comments etc. also very welcome.
[0] e.g. "The Return of the 90s Web" (338 comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23567744](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23567744),
"Rediscovering the Small Web" (121 comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23326329](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23326329),
"If I could bring one thing back to the internet it would be blogs" (614
comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23205588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23205588),
"Ask HN: Is there a search engine which excludes the world's biggest
websites?" (228 comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23202850](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23202850),
"Mozilla goes incubator with 'Fix The Internet' startup early-stage
investments" (166 comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23194178](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23194178),
"One company's plan to build a search engine Google can't beat" (319
comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23960741](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23960741)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
CSS single-file stylesheets that you can drop into an HTML5 document - varunramesh
https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1030985251940491266
======
dpfu
A nice way to compare how various CSS resets and frameworks style HTML
elements is [[https://kemar.github.io/html-
elements/](https://kemar.github...](https://kemar.github.io/html-
elements/\]\(https://kemar.github.io/html-elements/\)).
~~~
tazard
[https://kemar.github.io/html-elements/](https://kemar.github.io/html-
elements/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Free.cloudbrowser Not Working? - rspbrryrbtssn
hey look i know little to nothing about internet or browser-esque things but i use this on my school chromebook because i am 16 without a phone, i opened a ssl server reader thingy and it said it is expired
its pathetic but i need to use this, i cant really go into too much detail but it is the only way i can truly get ahold of my friends. why is it doing this? also something about security came up but this was the first time it ever ever did
======
sarcasmatwork
[https://www.isitdownrightnow.com](https://www.isitdownrightnow.com)
~~~
rspbrryrbtssn
it says it is down for them too...and i know the creator is on this website so
im hoping he/she would stop in and say hi and tell me what is or isn't going
on
------
rspbrryrbtssn
so every free proxy web browser website ever is blocked or expensive and this
chromebook cannot download anything. so im really at a lost. i need to know if
there is absolutely anyway i can be able to use free.cloudbrowser (assuming it
is not blocked) or something like it. or should i email cris??
------
rspbrryrbtssn
the reason i am 16 without a cell phone is because i had to move into my
grandparents home in september due to my only guardian dying in our home in
july. they are not super old but im a 16 y/o girl and they dont trust me on
the internet. thanks and im sorry to intrude.
------
rspbrryrbtssn
my friend explained to me that it has something to do with the certificate
expiring and that i just have to wait until it comes back online. but im
scared my school will still block it
------
rspbrryrbtssn
i would email him but i am afraid of my full first and last name being
known...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Open-guides/og-aws:Amazon Web Services – a practical guide - axiomdata316
https://github.com/open-guides/og-aws
======
QuinnyPig
Community Lead of the project here. We’re always willing to fieldnideas of how
we can make this project more accessible / useful to folks.
------
dbingham
This is awesome and really helpful!
As a piece of feedback, having a large section of concrete Cloudformation
examples (both JSON and YAML) would be really, really helpful. There are a lot
of examples in AWS' documentation, but they are often somewhat contrived or
limited and don't show exactly how disparate services would necessarily fit
together and interact. Newer services are often lacking examples, or have only
very simple and contrived examples.
And there's very little out there on what the best approach to architect and
organize cloudformation is. We're left to kind of take a guess and make it up
as we go along. So a section on syntax, architecture, and organization best
practices would also be awesome.
~~~
mooreds
Have you looked at the quick starts?
[https://aws.amazon.com/quickstart/](https://aws.amazon.com/quickstart/)
They are all cloudformation and are more complex set ups than the standard
documentation. See for example the data lake cloudformation yaml:
[https://github.com/aws-quickstart/quickstart-
datalake-47lini...](https://github.com/aws-quickstart/quickstart-
datalake-47lining/tree/master/templates)
------
sbkg0002
Cool, thanks for sharing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Man places his genome in public domain, on Github - metabrew
http://manu.sporny.org/2011/public-domain-genome/
======
sandipc
Technically this isn't his entire genome - just SNPs.
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-nucleotide_polymorphism>)
One major problem with developing a "Google for the human genome" is that we
don't actually understand how most of the genes (coding) and noncoding regions
in our DNA actually work or interact with each other... except at a very basic
level for a very limited set of genes.
There are genome browsers out there already that came out of the human genome
project and work in that direction. One example: <http://huref.jcvi.org/>
~~~
cjbprime
Yeah, I was disappointed that it's not a full genome too.
It's by no means all of his SNPs, either -- each person has around 3 million
actual SNPs (variations from the reference genome), and 23andme just chooses a
million sites that _could_ be the location of a SNP to look at, most of which
won't actually be points of variation for most people.
So, 23andme is only looking for common SNPs you might have. If you have a rare
SNP you're interested in, or if you're a researcher trying to analyze the
effects of an uncommon SNP, you're out of luck with 23andme data.
~~~
ryanlower
I agree, but still applaud Manu's release of something many consider so
private.
Even though this isn't a genome sequence, there is potential for interesting
analyses if lots of people release their 23andme data. (I believe 23andme use
the same SNPs for every user).
------
sskates
A lot of the “aren’t you afraid that somebody is going to use that against
you?" remarks are reminiscent of the early days of the internet, when people
were afraid to put pictures of themselves or their contact info online.
There's now a $50 billion dollar company dedicated to doing just that.
------
bbgm
This thread is probably a good place to point to perhaps the best resource on
the web for personal genomics today, the Genomes Unzipped blog
<http://www.genomesunzipped.org/>
The authors have not only released their genetic information into the public
domain (<http://www.genomesunzipped.org/data>), but also developed a custom
genome browser (<http://www.genomesunzipped.org/jbrowse>), have an API, and a
github repo for code they will release
(<https://github.com/genomesunzipped/genomesunzipped>).
These are early days in personal genomics, so it's great to see others jumping
in. Hopefully they all do so with some awareness, and folks like Genomes
Unzipped do a great job in creating that awareness, and never forgetting that
there is difficult, evolving science behind our understanding.
~~~
bennylope
This is a question asked out of ignorant curiousity: what, if any, are the
intellectual property implications of releasing genomic information into the
public domain? Does doing so preclude the patenting yet un-patented genetic
sequences published in that genome?
~~~
bbgm
A number of human genomes are public domain via the human genome project and
1000 genomes project, etc. The part that needs to be resolved is the bit about
genes and disease implications. A recent case overturned Myriad's patents on
BRCA1 and BRCA2 [1]. On the other hand, I believe it's still OK to patent
signatures corresponding to a diagnostic etc (not 100% sure).
1\.
[http://www.genomicslawreport.com/index.php/2010/03/30/pigs-f...](http://www.genomicslawreport.com/index.php/2010/03/30/pigs-
fly-federal-court-invalidates-myriads-patent-claims/)
------
paradoja
The curious thing is that he uses Github... does he expect forks? Or patches?
~~~
nixme
TeMPOraL already forked and made improvements:
<https://github.com/TeMPOraL/dna/commits/master/>
_"Eyelids now close in proper way. Fixes issue #42."_
~~~
TeMPOraL
Actually, more action is going on scientist-mode-__experimental__ branch. Code
is little rusty, but workable with and possibilities of optimizations are
great.
EDIT:
BTW. Any ideas how to get continous integration working with it?
~~~
nixme
Are you picking random SNPs or using something like SNPedia?
~~~
TeMPOraL
Programmer's intuition ;).
I really like your question. Personally I value stories, creations, etc. in
which authors make multiple layers of "jokes" or references. Unfortunately,
I'm not good enough to know what letters I'm actually changing :(.
~~~
cariaso
I am. <https://github.com/cariaso/dna> is a fork for real commits based on
SNPedia.
~~~
joshu
Where are the unit tests?
------
aphyr
This brings a whole new meaning to "fork me on github".
------
wybo
All we need now is a free compiler, to turn it into life-code that runs on the
Universal machine...
Until that time agent-based modeling is the best we have :)
~~~
marxidad
You can buy a DNA synthesizer on eBay:
<http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=dna+synthesizer>
~~~
pjscott
Good luck finding an embryogenesis machine on eBay.
~~~
borism
there are plenty on match.com etc, though getting any of those will be out of
reach for most guys with DNA synthesizers :)
------
abhikshah
The Personal Genome Project [personalgenomes.org] is aiming to recruit 100,000
people to publicly release their DNA sequence and medical data. The website
currently has phenotype and medical history data and genotyping data for the
first ten participants who are all well-known scientist.
------
pella
more genomes:
"These are the 57 public genomes. They are from real people who've chosen to
share their data to help all of us learn more about our genomes."
<http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Genomes>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Build gql apps using tests - joshmarlow
http://massiveinference.com
======
joshmarlow
Founder/maker here - I'm happy to discuss and answer questions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tektronix 5 series oscilloscopes - ChuckMcM
http://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/5-series-mso-mixed-signal-oscilloscope#
======
ChuckMcM
In an industry that moves forward from 'existing practice' very slowly and
carefully, these new scopes represent a huge leap. Kudos to the engineer at
Tektronix that managed to sell management on building these, I think they will
do well for the company. My only gripe would be that I don't think touch
(which trendy) should be the _primary_ interface to an instrument like this.
But I've yet to see one in the "flesh" so to speak so I'll reserve judgement
until then.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fortran for .NET - fortran77
http://www.lahey.com/docs/lfenthelp/nlmgswhatis.htm
======
Bostonian
I don't think this compiler from 2004 is worth much consideration. It does not
have all the features of Fortran 95 and 2003. Lahey/Fujitsu did make a good
Fortran 95 compiler, which I used, but its latest compilers are just wrappers
for gfortran, not independent efforts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Scaling MySQL to 700 million inserts per day - bluesmoon
http://tech.bluesmoon.info/2009/09/scaling-writes-in-mysql.html
======
cperciva
This article was mis-titled: The title should be "how to get poor performance
by using a completely inappropriate tool".
Quoth the article: " _Several million records a day need to be written to a
table. These records are then read out once at the end of the day, summarised
and then very rarely touched again._ "
This isn't a job for a database. This is a job for a _log file_. You might
want to use a database to store the summarized data, of course; but bulk data
which is written, never updated, and quite likely only ever read once? That's
practically the definition of a log file.
~~~
bluesmoon
some hackers hack simply to find out what's on the other side
~~~
ntoshev
No, it's just another case of RDBMS blinding people for all other possible
solutions.
~~~
silentbicycle
Have you ever noticed how when this happens, it's practically always MySQL?
(And when people complain about how badly relational databases perform and it
turns out they don't know about indexes, transactions, or stored procedures,
it's _always_ MySQL...)
~~~
donw
This.
The non-MySQL RDBMS people that I know, know when their RDBMS of choice isn't
the right tool for the job. Most of the MySQL people I know, seem to think
that you just shove everything into the DB, and let Eris sort it out.
Because no other member of the pantheon is crazy enough to even look at that
mess.
~~~
silentbicycle
I suspect a network effect is in place where the vast majority of people whose
entire understating of databases came from "PHP + MySQL For Dummies"-caliber
books, blog posts, etc. use MySQL by default. A critical mass of them end up
perpetuating bad advice, griping about how since MySQL hasn't worked well for
them, all RDBMSs are junk, etc. Then, people looking for advice starting with
databases read _their_ tutorials. To some degree, MySQL probably brought this
upon themselves[1], but now there's a feedback loop in place[2][3][4].
[1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/764fp/mysql_vs_postgresql/c05sayb
[2]: http://sqlanywhere.blogspot.com/2008/03/unpublished-mysql-faq.html
[3]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=561277
[4]: http://ask.metafilter.com/117908/Theres-got-to-be-a-faster-way-to-update
There seems to be a similar effect between Linux and BSD. I'm not going to
claim that BSD is objectively superior in every regard, but on average, the
BSD community seems to be quite a bit better informed than the Linux
community. It may just be because Linux is so much more visible. People using
BSD, Postgres, etc. probably already knew enough to evaluate their options,
while the path of least resistance stays overrun with clueless newbies.
------
MichaelGG
I wonder why they used a database at all: "These records are then read out
once at the end of the day, summarised and then very rarely touched again."
And later on they end up writing them to a text file and bulk inserting them
in 10K batches. Wouldn't it be easier to just write them all to a file then
summarize at the end of the day? (It also says they do a DROP TABLE on each
day's data.)
------
forkqueue
A couple of points for those thinking about doing something similar:
"Since InnoDB stores the table in the primary key, I decided that rather than
use an auto_increment column, I'd cover several columns with the primary key
to guarantee uniqueness. This had the added advantage that if the same record
was inserted more than once, it would not result in duplicates."
The 'correct' way to deal with this in MySQL is using the
auto_increment_increment.
[http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/server-system-
variabl...](http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/server-system-
variables.html)
Of course, the real difficulty with mutli-master setups split across data
centres isn't ensuring uniqueness of primary keys, it's ensuring data-
integrity under a split-brain scenario, i.e. where one server can't reach the
other, but users can reach one or the other. UPDATEs and DELETEs to rows can
then become extremely difficult to merge back together. This wasn't a problem
for this application, but as others have commented, this use case probably
wasn't best suited for an RDBMS anyway.
~~~
bluesmoon
with an autoincrement id, duplicate rows may get inserted. having a primary
key derived from the data results in duplicate rows getting discarded (this is
important).
secondly, the autoincrement id adds 4 bytes to each row which are never used
for anything. only use an id if you need to reference a row from another
table.
~~~
silentbicycle
That's a good warning sign that the data isn't relational in the first place.
An RDBMS would probably be a good fit for the analyzed data (which is likely
to have explicit _relations_ ), though.
~~~
encoderer
No it's not. There are plenty of tables that use composite keys that also
contain foreign keys.
The use of ORMs like active record, many of which choke on natural keys, has
turned a lot of devs into automatons for artificial key creation. Natural keys
are often superior.
------
Paul_Morgan
Why no discussion of the disk drives supporting this database? The write
performance dropped to 150 when the disk starts getting pounded as, up to that
point, everything was in a memory buffer. Does the temporal partition spread
the file over multiple drives? What's the capacity and theoretical throughput
of the drives?
~~~
bluesmoon
RAID 10 7200rpm 6x1TB
------
danwolff2
Interesting use of tables, as previously commented, but we at room.ly surely
appreciative of your post as we are currently on a PHP/MySQL diet and looking
to reach critical mass soon after a few updates
------
raghus
This seems to be at Yahoo!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Neovim's Next Feature Poll - tambourine_man
http://neovim.org/development-wiki/polls/
======
chroma
I am convinced that Vim's greatest asset and risk is Bram Moolenar. Bram is a
talented, experienced developer, and I commend him for creating Vim. But he is
the only person with write access to Vim's codebase. The primary author of
NeoVim is Thiago de Arruda. Thiago tried to work with Bram, but was
rejected.[1] Patches similar to Thiago's have been proposed before, but were
also rejected.[2] It is for this reason that Thiago has forked Vim, and I wish
him luck.
It's important to remember that everyone involved is trying to improve Vim as
they see it. I think this is a prime example of how the benevolent
dictatorship model can fail.
1\.
[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vim_dev/65jjGqS1_VQ](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vim_dev/65jjGqS1_VQ)
2\.
[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vim_dev/-4pqDJfHCsM%...](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vim_dev/-4pqDJfHCsM%5B1-25-false%5D)
~~~
omaranto
Do users mind that in your words Moolenar is a risk to vim, though? Are people
specifically interested in the advancement of vim or just more generally in
the progress of vim-like text editors, in which case they can happily switch
to neovim if it becomes better than vim?
------
edanm
Please, please implement multi-cursor support. For anyone that doesn't agree,
please read my previous post on HN on the topic:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1625382](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1625382)
I wrote to Thiago about this already, but we don't even need multi-cursor
support - just a few additional hooks so we can implement a multi-cursor
plugin.
Although to be honest, making it part of core is vastly preferable, since it
is a _hard_ feature to get right (e.g., how do you deal with copy-pasting into
multiple-cursors)?
~~~
hk__2
What problems can you solve with multi-cursors that you can’t with actual
features like block selection?
~~~
edanm
Simple (very common example):
<pre> .some-css-rule { padding-left:50px; padding-right:50px; } </pre>
Say I want to edit those two numbers. With multi-cursors, it's as simple as
select one number, hitting a button that causes the other number to be
selected, then writing the new value.
Now, after I wrote it, I realize I forgot to put a space after the colon, and
want to change the formatting. No problem - I just make the change to the
first line, and the next line follows.
Same as macros? Kind of. But let's say I make a mistake in the macro, e.g., I
move the cursor left to the beggining of the line letter-by-letter instead of
hitting "home", which is a killer for a macro since each line is a different
length. (this is a contrived example a real vim'er will never do, but there
are plenty of real examples of 'oops forgot about that' things when recording
macros).
Anyway, when I run my macro, suddenly things won't work, and then undoing and
starting the re-record process takes time. But if I'm doing this with
mulitple-cursors, I see _right away, visually_ that something's wrong, and
it's _easy to fix_ \- I just hit "home" after moving the cursor left.
And note - this is a drop-dead-simple use case that happens 10's of times a
day for any css programmer. Similarly, most programmers will run into cases
where they have two similar if blocks one after another, or two similar
"except" blocks, and so on.
And that's not even going into lots of other, very powerful cases, like taking
a function that gets a list of paramaters, and being able to easily manipulate
these paramaters, e.g. given "foo(a, b, c, d, e)", I can easily multi-cursor
all the commas, then copy all the params, then paste them after the func
definition, hit enter, and I've got a list of all the params after the
function definition. And this isn't hard, at all! I visually see everything
I'm doing as I do it, and if something goes wrong, I fix it on the spot.
I could ramble more about this, but I think I've either convinced you I'm
crazy, or at least to try multi-cursors out :)
~~~
chunkstuntman
If you do this kind of editing daily, then executing the following commands
would become second nature
:s/50/60/g
:s/:/: /g
No need to touch the mouse or use macros. Many use-cases for multiple cursors
are satisfied by the core functionality of vim, however they may not be
immediately obvious.
~~~
astine
Trivial counter-example:
.some-css-rule { padding-left:50px; padding-right:50px; margin:50px; }
Pretend you want to avoid changing the margin.
~~~
chunkstuntman
:s/50/60/g<CR> @:
or even just /50<CR>r6n.
if there's any new feature I'd like to see in neovim it would be one key that
will repeat an ex command like period does for normal/visual mode
~~~
astine
You're first example wont work. What you want is
:s/50/60/<CR> @:
And that still won't handle
.some-css-rule { margin:50px; padding-left:50px; padding-right:50px; }
The second example will work, for this, but not for the situation where you
change your mind halfway through and decide you want 70px instead.
------
rat87
I feel like one of the main goals of neovim is to make it more like emacs. Or
guile emacs.
Instead of a shitty language for plugins and configuration: vimL (with some
support for plugins in alternative languages but not well integrated and not
present in all vim installations) and replace it with a good interface to a
single language. Like emacs. Much of emacs is written in elisp instead of c, I
wonder if this will enable quicker/higher level development with lua for parts
of neovim.
The plans for a compatibility interpreter for vimL on top lua sound a lot like
the elisp on top of guile plan for guile emacs, and isn't one of guile emacs
goals to add support for concurrency?
~~~
wirrbel
Both vim and emacs have had problems recently in balancing refactoring needs
and their traditional architecture and project layout.
People are more and more used to contributing to projects with an occasional
pull request. However to benefit from this, the projects have to become more
accessible to these people. This makes all those changes that are introduced
to neovim necessary. If tests are already beneficial for a developer who has
written the codebase, the occassional contributor really depends on them.
Vim and emacs are projects that are of special strategical importance to the
world. They must not vanish.
------
Simucal
Thiago claims that one of Vim's biggest problems is its lack of testing
infrastructure. It is difficult to refactor or make changes without the chance
of introducing some possibly obscure regression. This is probably a big part
of Bram's reluctance to merge large changesets from other developers.
I honestly thing if he can successfully pull off this "msgpack UI" and get a
solid set of tests written (which the community seems eager to start work on)
this project will be a huge success.
Here is his quote from the mailing list:
"This may not be so obvious, but vim's biggest problem has nothing to do with
the lack of the above features. It's something much more basic: poor testing
infrastructure.
While vim has some automated tests(about 200 counting with the ~100 tests
embedded in test 49) those only catch the 'biggest' bugs, with many small ones
being introduced by patches and only detected at a later time. It's a true
maintenance hell, and here's a post on reddit that illustrates the
problem(even though the author himself disagrees with neovim):
[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1yjzez/neovim_a...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1yjzez/neovim_a_project_to_refactor_and_modernize_the/cfla7j5)
The problem is that in it's current state, vim cannot grow because there's no
easy way to write automated tests for it. The current test suite is very hard
to understand and those that submit patches probably won't write tests because
it's too complicated. But patches need to be tested, especially bug fixes
which must acompany a regression to ensure they won't be reintroduced. So it's
easy to see why Bram is skeptical about merging patches, especially new
features: He has no way of knowing if those patches will break existing code.
In the example given by the reddit comment, Bram 'solved' the problem by
simply picking the lesser of two evils.
This is one of the firsts issues neovim aims to fix: By writing a msgpack
'UI', we'll be able to write well-documented functional tests in a high-level
language. Contributors reporting bugs will be able to reproduce them with a
test cases and new features will be properly tested. As the test suite covers
more code, neovim will be more 'protected' since there will be a bigger chance
of catching bugs the minute a PR is sent(with travis). People need to
understand that before posting issues regarding new features or new ideas, as
neovim must be properly 'secured' against bugs first."
~~~
wirrbel
The whole approach makes a lot of sense. Successful refactoring goes hand in
hand with setting up a test environment. Code that is not covered by unit
tests is legacy code. Without tests, you have to fear breaking things and fear
is a bad starting point for development.
I backed Neovim and I really hope that it succeeds. I think the Vim codebase
is criticized a little too harshly in general. It is a child of its time.
Whether Lua is the optimal choice as an extension language remains to be seen,
yet it is a very pragmatic choice and over time we will see that the C core of
vim will shrink dramatically.
I seriously hope that Bram Molenaar is not offended by the fork (and I think
he is not). For the vim community having neovim as an independent development
line will have its merrits until it is clear whether the fork can replace the
proven editor.
------
dasil003
Do we know how Bram feels about Neovim and whether he is willing to get behind
it if it succeeds?
The reason I ask is because one of the primary reasons I made the switch to
Vim from TextMate is ubiquity and longevity. In the age of GitHub, fads, forks
and abandoned projects have become all too common. Meanwhile Bram has proven
himself to be a pillar-like benevolent dictator for decades, and to me that
means a hell of a lot.
~~~
MetaCosm
Bram has said very little. He, IMHO, massively underestimates the communities
desire to contribute... Neovim simply tapped in to a community desperate to
improve a project they love, and finding no good options on howto do so.
As for "getting behind it if it succeeds" lets hope not! I was a financial
supporter of Neovim. I also have run the #vim channel on FreeNode for over a
decade. They serve different goals.
Neovim is where "big changes" can happen, gut legacy support, move fast, break
shit. It is on Github, it has multiple people doing major contributions, it is
being re-factored to make it easier for MORE people to get involved. Neovim
wants to be a huge community project, which is awesome.
Vim is -- the default on many systems, shipped with fully working vi
compatible mode, has literally millions and millions of users. It can not --
by its nature -- move fast and break shit. Vim has a much, older, slower
development process -- from the days well before Github and friends... it
might slowly open up -- but not much, because again, millions depend on it.
This is also, awesome.
I hope the very best ideas, once they are tested, debugged, and tested again
will make their way up from Neovim to Vim, but it will be a very slow process.
Neovim gives no thought to Vim -- because it can't -- it has to be its own
thing to move forward. Vim gives no thought to Neovim yet -- it is an
established, dependable, amazing tool... and Neovim has not yet risen to the
point to even be worthy of a response.
~~~
exDM69
> Neovim is where "big changes" can happen, gut legacy support, move fast,
> break shit. It is on Github, it has multiple people doing major
> contributions, it is being re-factored to make it easier for MORE people to
> get involved. Neovim wants to be a huge community project, which is awesome.
The first thing done to Neovim was to re-format all the code and then do some
refactoring that breaks things. You can't make an omelette without breaking
eggs but this practically burned the bridges behind and any hope of merging
stuff upstream/downstream from neovim to vim or vice versa is gone. At least
without significant manual labor.
If you ask me, this was a premature move and the neovim guys should have tried
to make non-breaking changes first with an opportunity for upstream-downstream
merges.
~~~
MetaCosm
The Neovim development path -- by design -- had no chance of upstream-
downstream merges. It is a departure, not a premature mistake, but a decision.
The code had to be re-factored to let the community in -- the Vim code is a
horrific legacy cruft-fest that terrifies even the most brave developers. But
it is a historical working one, which is hard to argue with -- look at those
styling commits, they are wonderfully sane.
------
mikaelj
"Sublime minimap" and "better autocomplete" are features that use an
underlying API.
I'd prefer if they could be renamed to "Fetaure X which enables e.g. sublime
minimap" and dito for autocomplete.
~~~
davis
Thanks for the feedback. I created the poll so I'll be sure that when we
create the Bounty we are clear in that the underlying API is what we are
looking to improve.
~~~
mikaelj
I don't follow - it is /not/ clear to me which underlying API it is that will
get implemented by voting for "sublime-style mini-map".
~~~
davis
Possibly this will answer your question?
[http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/1yqqhl/bram_responds_to...](http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/1yqqhl/bram_responds_to_neovim/cfmxjb9)
~~~
mikaelj
I did not ask a question - I wanted the _poll_ to clarify what architectural
changes were to be made in order for the minimap feature to exist. :-)
------
hk__2
There’s a typo in the news title: it’s “poll”, not “pool”.
~~~
joshgel
I thought we were going swimming!
------
afarrell
Others have probably already said this elsewhere, but I think high quality
error messages for vimscript (or the lua api) are one of the most important
things. The project already cares about the developer experience for people
writing plugins. Error messages are a difficult but important part of that.
------
gaving
Loving the progress of Neovim so far, even better that notable plugin authors
([https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/622#issuecomment-415...](https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/622#issuecomment-41552522))
are getting involved.
~~~
jitl
I've always wanted to write Vim plugins, but Vimscript and the RPC contortions
always looked too hairy for me to get involved -- I'm excited for the new vim-
embedding interface so I can get real VIM compatibility with my IDEs.
~~~
pekk
Except it has been possible for a long time to write scripts in other
languages so what are you talking about?
~~~
jitl
I guess I should've been clearer: I want to embed Vim in other applications
and environments without having to write three crazy bridges between them
------
seren
Has anyone used neovim yet ? Is it usable ? Is there any new features or are
they only refactoring under the hood ?
~~~
gitaarik
I tried it. For now it just behaves the same as normal Vim. Most of the work
done is indeed under the hood. They are refactoring the codebase so that it
will be easier to create plugins, extentions and to use Neovim inside other
apps.
~~~
justinmk
> For now it just behaves the same as normal Vim
Not quite. Neovim has working job control ("async"):
[http://pastebin.com/hpiCP9Ae](http://pastebin.com/hpiCP9Ae)
It works like the javascript event loop, so even though Neovim is still
single-threaded, you can dispatch to external processes and handle the results
in a callback(s).
------
threatofrain
I've heard from a HN commentator that Neovim has given up on its principle
goal of refactoring, and that progress has largely been due to uncrustify.
Can anyone else speak to the health of the project?
~~~
kansface
Have a look for yourself:
[https://github.com/neovim/neovim/commits/master](https://github.com/neovim/neovim/commits/master).
The code base is now about half of the original size (removed support for
legacy OSes, swap all native IO abstractions for libuv, removed dead code,
etc). They also split the 25Kloc files called things like misc2.c into
multiple files and neovim uses cmake instead of a slew of hand written make
files with two decades of commented out hacks. Work on a vimscript -> lua
compiler
([https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/243](https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/243))
is underway as well as the new RPC plugin stuff
([https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/582](https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/582)).
------
joelthelion
I think they should focus on refactoring the core and letting people add
features through plugins.
------
manolus
The greatest thing implemented in neovim, IMHO, is this feature:
[https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/475](https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/475)
------
rektide
Terrified that multi-cursor would be for the case of "one
user/keyboard/mouse." I'd love to see a Vim that actually does multi-seat.
------
gcao
Has anyone created mapping to jump AFTER a character? I did it and think it is
great.
------
js2
"pool" vs "poll" \- can the submission title be corrected?
------
SeoxyS
How could they make a sublime-style code minimap in a CLI app?
~~~
kachnuv_ocasek
The goal (as I understood it) is to separate back-end and front-end. That is,
you could have a CLI front-end with just text interface, or a GUI front-end
with all the fancy features.
~~~
kleim
Maybe I didn't get the point of neovim but I don't really see how a GUI could
be a useful addition for vim. I only use gvim because colorschemes have nicer
colors.
~~~
mseidl
You can use CSExact to get GUI color schemes to work.
[https://github.com/KevinGoodsell/vim-
csexact](https://github.com/KevinGoodsell/vim-csexact)
There is also csapprox.
------
indralukmana
So anyway, where is NeoEmacs?
*i am going to run now.
~~~
cube_yellow
"NeoEmacs" is guilemacs, putting emacs ontop of the guile vm. look at the GSoC
project.
~~~
indralukmana
Oh, i just learn about this.
But when i search google for this guilemacs there are no definitive
information for this project (as in where i download the program?).
So based on my little browsing, vim and emacs have some kind of different
problems? (or are they even problems?)
Vim has the benevolent dictator who prefer supporting backwards compatibility
to developing features. And Neovim try to address that.
Emacs is using a "hacky emacs lisp" and "guile emacs" tries to incorporate a
scheme based improvement on the backend.
------
pekk
What do people have against Bram Moolenaar? Vim is good already without a
coup.
~~~
hedwall
Neovim has not been started to spite Bram, why would you think that?
------
Galanwe
If that's not a command line application anymore. What's the point of keeping
the "vim" name apart from teasing users? Call it neogvim or
neogvimlikenotepadforjsfullstackdevelopper
~~~
adamors
You're free to continue using Vim, no one is taking that away from you. And if
you would bother to read up on the project, you'd see that one of its primary
goals is to separate the actual editor from the visual interface. That way,
everything that is GUI related is separate.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google bans BitTorrent clients - FossHub
https://www.reddit.com/r/torrents/comments/6obxsa/google_bans_bittorrent/
======
dkonofalski
I don't know that this title is accurate. It doesn't seem like Google is
banning BitTorrent clients. It seems like the qBitTorrent page was falsely
marked as an illegal file-sharing site so Google Ads aren't allowed. It's not
like Google is refusing to list BitTorrent clients in search results. There
are far too many legitimate uses of torrent clients for that to be a reality.
------
wmf
More like Google AdSense banned one BitTorrent client.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Flying in for a YC interview? Zenner will protect you from disruption - wsdan
https://gozenner.com/yc-interview-flight-protection
======
wsdan
Hi HN - Zenner cofounder here.
For those of you fortunate enough to receive a YC interview, congratulations!
We've built a free tool that will analyze the risk of your flights being
disrupted, and we're also offering to help get you to SF even if your flight
is canceled, delayed, or you miss a connection.
Give it a go, we're keen for your feedback.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Reader to shut down July 1st - halffullheart
http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/13/4101144/google-shuts-down-reader-rss-aggregation-service
======
superchink
This is the worst news I've read all day.
~~~
niggler
Did you read it in google reader?
~~~
superchink
Of course! Which explains why I missed the other HN thread with all the
comments on the front page, and posted here instead.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
One programmer broke the internet by deleting a tiny piece of code (2016) - tosh
https://qz.com/646467/how-one-programmer-broke-the-internet-by-deleting-a-tiny-piece-of-code/
======
raxxorrax
('chchchchchch' \+ str).slice(-len)?
But yes, maybe you want to pad a lot of characters. That is why I always
define a constant in the global scope.
const chchchchchchchch[...]chchchchchchchchchchchchch =
chchchchchchchchchchch[...]chchchchchchchchchchc
Remember to name your labels in a way that users know what they represent.
I feel there is some truth to the laziness argument.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Real Go Projects: SmartTwitter and web.go - pufuwozu
http://blog.golang.org/2010/10/real-go-projects-smarttwitter-and-webgo.html
======
ed
I've been thoroughly impressed watching web.go come together. It's now the top
Go project on Github in every category they track:
<http://github.com/languages/Go>
Personally I'm of the opinion that language expressiveness matters more than
real world performance, but only to a limit. Go is definitely carving out a
nice niche for performant systems-related apps.
And the fact that Smart Twitter serves 90k concurrent users from a VPS without
breaking a sweat is freaking amazing. I suspect this is the reason the service
can remain free.
(edit: err, for the "watched" categories)
~~~
SkyMarshal
I imagine at some point Google will make Go their fourth official language,
when they perceive it is mature enough. I do hope they'll add a Go version of
App Engine, as well.
~~~
syllogism
It's Go on Android that I want...
~~~
kaib
It's getting there. Ken and Russ have been fixing a lot of the bugs I left
behind in the arm compiler and it is passing most of the tests now. There is
still work needed to get the API ported/linked but at least there is should be
closure on the compiler front.
~~~
enneff
There's also quite a bit of interest from some of the Android guys internally,
so I'm optimistic it'll continue to grow in that direction.
------
swannodette
What do people find interesting about Go? It's barely faster than the best
dynamic languages -
[http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all...](http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=go&lang2=racket),
and it offers few conceptual innovations (in comparison to say Racket, Scala,
Haskell, hell, even JavaScript).
So it seems too slow for systems programming and too "blind-folders on" about
where CS is going. I'm honestly curious, what are people actually excited
about?
The only scenario I could see people using it is in the situation where speed
is not of the essence but memory consumption is. Perhaps I'm naive and this is
a bigger category of software than I'm aware of.
~~~
Raphael_Amiard
The thing is you are actually comparing mature dynamic languages
implementation to a very new static language implementation. In the long term,
if any of the previous events in the matter are of any importance, Go is very
likely to climb that list without much effort. That's just the reality of
compiler optimization : It's much more easier to do for a static language.
On a related note, you sound very "dynamic language" centric. Some people
actually like static typing, and i won't relaunch the debate here but both
sides have pretty good argument, especially when you throw type inference into
the mix.
In the static camp, here is a few advantages i can see to go (i'm not actually
an user of the language) :
\- Easier to get your head around than Ocaml/Haskell \- Arguably better than
java (pros: actually has proper closures, and a sane system for polymorphism.
cons: no generics) \- Compiles to machine code rather than byte-code, so
doesn't depend on a VM. Can be important for some tasks.
I actually think Go has quite a lot going on for it. It just doesn't have any
'wow' factor. But that's not necessarily a bad thing
~~~
acqq
> so doesn't depend on a VM
But "dependence" on VM is nothing tragic if the GC is not in the game. If
you'd imagine a VM without GC then what remains is just the potential for run-
time JIT and optimization which can actually be a good thing! There's a long
history of p-code interpreters which provided the more compact code, see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCSD_Pascal> and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_P-Code> At that time tracing and JIT
would have been too heavy thing to do but today it could maybe be interesting
to have something like that.
And as far as I know, Go doesn't "depend" on VM but does on GC, but D also
generates the native code but doesn't have to use GC and I think that is an
important advantage for such a kind of the language.
------
aditya
Nice, this made it to TechCrunch via HN:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1816945>
------
qhoxie
Well done marketer. Glad to see this getting some more publicity.
------
enneff
Gotta thank Hoisie for writing this. Nice shout out to HN. :-)
~~~
marketer
Thanks for the post :)
------
kuber
awesome!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: The powerful software development tool designed to eliminate boundaries - cyber_brain
http://elastic-it.net/
======
GwynBleidd
This is an awesome concept, well under way towards being feature complete
enough to shatter the whole world of programming as we know it - robust,
simple, scalable, cross-platform.
Can't wait to start using it - and I surely will as soon as they add mobile OS
support to make it truly cross-platform.
Another perfect feature to have will be automated web app generation and if
the website is to be believed, it's almost done.
Keep it up, really looking forward to your progress!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Send SMS for Free via AIM on iPhone - nickb
http://db.tidbits.com/article/9690
======
snewe
Just tested this. It sends a text from 26950. If the receiver does not know
your AIM screen name, the text will be very confusing. Also, if you have the
Gen 1 iPhone, you get 200 texts by default with the data plan so this won't
save you a ton of money.
~~~
axod
And in the UK you get 600 free SMS a month so it's not really an issue here
unless you spend your life texting.
------
sprice
When I try this it fails with a message stating: "Could not send because
+1604xxxxxxx is not available"
Because I'm Canada?
------
bdotdub
Don't you have to be online for receive the responses? If so, it's kinda silly
if the person doesn't respond immediately
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Baltimore Is Getting Its First Startup Incubator - llimllib
http://bmoremedia.com/features/startupcity030811.aspx
======
subelsky
I know there are a lot of incubators starting up now, but there aren't so many
on the east coast. I wrote in more detail about the vision of this project and
why we're doing it in this Google Doc, if anyone is interested in starting
something in their own city:
[https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdPdQktVsPezZGp0bW1jNF8xN...](https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdPdQktVsPezZGp0bW1jNF8xNGdxcHBqamRm&authkey=CMCIsp8K&hl=en)
~~~
bmelton
Baltimore's a good target. You generally would expect something like this to
happen in the (nearby) DC area, but between Fort Meade and other Maryland-area
institutions, there is some AMAZING talent in or around Baltimore, and it's
much more pleasant getting into and out of.
Mike, if you need any help with anything technical, please feel free to let me
know -- contact info is in my profile.
~~~
subelsky
thank you, I definitely will reach out. The main thing we're gonna need is
people to help advise these companies (not too time-consuming, just answer
some questions here and there). I agree with your assessment. There are a lot
of under-the-radar companies and people hanging out in this area.
~~~
kovar
Could you drop me a line, contact information in my profile? I'm in need of
advice and support in some areas, may be able to offer it in others.
~~~
subelsky
I don't see contact info in your profile, but email me and we'll talk!
------
Griever
This is great news! As a Baltimorean I am extremely excited to see something
this ambitious come to the East Coast, and better yet my neck of the woods.
I will most definitely be making an effort to participate in this. Great job,
Mike.
~~~
thestoicattack
Right on. I have lived in Baltimore almost my entire life. I'm a PhD candidate
at Hopkins now, but if I do a startup when I finish, I'd much rather stay here
than move to California.
~~~
Griever
The Wire (while being an incredible show) definitely hurt Baltimore in terms
of its reputation. There are some fantastic areas around, and the culture is
very inspiring.
~~~
xiaoma
I think it's the consistent 200-300 homicides per year that hurt Baltimore's
reputation.
~~~
paulsmith
Every major American city has its share of violent, drug- or gang-based crime.
That's not to diminish it, but unless you are actively involved in those
trades or unfortunate enough to be caught up in it by proximity, it likely
will never visit you. It's a shame because there are risks everywhere
(suburbanites think nothing of climbing in their cars everyday to hop on the
highways where 30,000 people die every year) but we're so bad in general at
evaluating them.
Frankly, it doesn't bother me that Baltimore's reputation is somewhat
tarnished, because that just makes it all the more appealing to live here and
know that there is great art, great music, a vibrant technology and hacking
scene, lots of smart young people, and friendly neighbors to enjoy. Now if we
could just get more bike lanes and some better frickin' public transit ...
~~~
asmithmd1
Boston, which is almost exactly the same populations as Baltimore, had 72
murders last year.
If New York had the murder rate that Baltimore does that would mean over 3000
people murdered in a year.
Baltimore has a serious violence problem no matter how you try to rationalize
it.
~~~
subelsky
who's trying to rationalize it? There's not much I can do about it; it's still
an awesome place to live. Good luck buying a house in a nice part of Boston or
NYC as a working-class or middle-class person. Meanwhile I'm hacking code,
running a startup, and I live in a super nice house in a walkable neighborhood
that's very different than the one narrow slice you saw in that show.
~~~
thestoicattack
What neighborhood? (Charles Village here.)
~~~
subelsky
We haven't locked down the space yet but are hoping for a spot in Fells Point.
I actually also live in Charles Village, let's meet up for coffee sometime!
([email protected])
------
kovar
I grew up in Bethesda, MD and for personal reasons would like to get back
there. Some of our early adopters are likely to be DC based lawyers and we
were considering setting up shop near DC but we also want a supportive
entrepreneurial environment. You may have solved that for us.
Baltimore is a great city for this. Close to DC, access to NYC and Boston,
lower cost of living, enjoyable place to live, some great schools near by.
~~~
subelsky
this is music to my ears! We actually have a very vibrant innovation/startup
community in Baltimore. Check out our Facebook Group to get a quick firehose:
[https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_160612380624897&#...</a><p>Also
check out <a href="http://startupbaltimore.org/"
rel="nofollow">http://startupbaltimore.org/</a>, <a
href="http://www.baltimorehackathon.com/"
rel="nofollow">http://www.baltimorehackathon.com/</a>, and the <a
href="http://baltimore.startupweekend.org/"
rel="nofollow">http://baltimore.startupweekend.org/</a>
~~~
kovar
I shall definitely check out the last three links. I'll look at the FB group
but I, unfortunately, use FB only for personal stuff and am very disinclined
to mix my professional and personal life on FB. Just me, not a critique of
you!
~~~
subelsky
it's a fair critique and you aren't the first to mention it. But I will say
it's vastly accelerated the exchange of ideas and feeling of community in
Baltimore so overall it's a net win. There's also a network of twitter
accounts to follow if that's more your taste (@startupbmore @ignitebaltimore
@bmorehackathon @startupdigestmd @bootstrapmd @innovatebmore etc etc)
------
Smirnoff
I live in Baltimore and I approve this message =)
Now, my CTO can stay as a CTO because he loves Baltimore and doesn't want to
move to San Francisco!
------
mikealeo
Wonderful idea. Born and raised in Baltimore/Columbia and this is definitely
more of what we need. Great work so far. Do you guys have a website yet?
~~~
subelsky
just a splash page for now, designed by Mark Armbruster. The site is
<http://thestartupcity.com> (the guy who owns startupcity.com wants a lot of
$$$ for it)
------
LiveTheDream
> Applicants to Startup City, who will be selected based on a YouTube video
> they submit to the program's website
A YouTube video alone is not sufficient to make an informed selection from the
applicants. An interview in-person, or on the phone at least, is essential. I
hope the process was just over-simplified in the article.
~~~
kovar
Y Combinator requires a one minute video for each founder. No cute graphics,
no special effects, just one minute of you talking. I did it, and thought it
added value to my submission.
I'd be a bit put off by any video requirements that allowed for too much more
technical wizardry than that. I present myself well, but I do so far better in
person, and I'm not adept with making movies.
I'd be quite happy to come in for an in person interview, even though I'm
1,500 miles away. I want to evaluate _you_ as well. Committing to a particular
incubator _is_ a commitment by both parties and I want to be sure I'm
comfortable working with you as well.
------
dlevine
This is great. I grew up in Baltimore, but headed to the Bay Area after
college because that's where all of the action is in the high-tech space. My
mom always tries to convince me that Baltimore is becoming a high-tech hub,
and maybe it actually is.
~~~
LiveTheDream
The Baltimore region actually _is_ a hub for gaming companies: MicroProse,
Firaxis, Big Huge Games, etc. I'm not overly familiar with the video game
industry, but Baltimore/Maryland is no slouch. Zynga has an office in Timonium
now (suburbs of Baltimore) where they are hiring.
~~~
llimllib
Bethesda Software too.
------
Smirnoff
Mike, I have two people on my team and we live in Baltimore. Should we apply
as a team or separately? Also, our product is targeting Russian market. Is
that a problem? Do you only accept companies that target US to begin with?
Thanks
~~~
subelsky
you should definitely apply as a team. We would love to back a company
targeting Russia! It's a global economy, right? Also there's a large Russian
population in Baltimore FWIW
~~~
Smirnoff
Awesome. We will definitely look into this opportunity.
Thanks Mike.
------
mindgrub
Baltimore is a tech hot bed right now. Between our Universities, culture and
under-doggedness we are going to seriously crush it these next couple of
years. I missed out on funding to start my mobile company 5 years ago because
I didn't want to move out west. Now I'm happy to say its game time without it.
------
kovar
Any thought on requiring successful incubator startups to reinvest in the
incubator in some way? Or at least a gentleman's agreement to do so?
Speaking for myself, I'm a firm believer in building community and in
reinvesting in people and things that have invested in me.
~~~
subelsky
So, that's one of the main reasons for doing this, to create that virtuous
cycle, but at this stage I don't think we can require it.
------
philjackson
Omar's-a-comin' ... and he's got 25% equity thanks to the last round.
------
mcgeadyd
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttt!
Looks like Mayor Carcetti really is turning things around.
~~~
zavulon
Stringer Bell is definitely going to be applying.
~~~
mcgeadyd
Where do you think the money is coming from?! Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.
------
intellectronica
Oooh, there's a John Waters movie hiding somewhere in here...
------
TheSOB88
Holy shit. As a local, I can't wait to see more info on this. I don't think I
could beat out all those Silicon Valley hotshots that apply to YC, but for
something local, I think I can get in.
This being in Baltimore is such a surprise - I'd never thought I'd see the
day. I'm giddy.
~~~
subelsky
glad to hear it! But this is just one small facet of the tech scene in
Baltimore...Please check out my response to kovar for a list of other
resources you should check out.
~~~
sausagefeet
What is the difference between this and something like ETC on Boston St? They
have The Hive which is a cheap place for startups to go (do they lack
funding?).
~~~
subelsky
The ETC is great but does not provide funding, and you have to pay rent for
the office space (though the leases are on startup-friendly terms, graduated
rates, etc). The ETC will actually be providing their services (consulting,
introductions, etc) to our portfolio
~~~
sausagefeet
Awesome cool.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Famous Ethics Professor and the Women Who Accused Him - hownottowrite
https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/yale-ethics-professor?src=longreads&utm_term=.ffwo67e6O#.jlMmoRloe
======
chmaynard
If Yale really tried to silence an accuser with an NDA and a cash payment,
they are co-conspirators in an attempt to cover up a possible Title IX
violation. Not a good look.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dog's Device (Python grammar edge-case) - lhgaghl
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15955948/how-does-this-lambda-yield-generator-comprehension-work
======
jaimebuelta
Oh, that's really hideous code...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What if my startup is acquired twice? - acq_question
Hi all,<p>Quick question for those in the know. If I sold off the assets of my startup for stock in the private acquirer and then 1 year later those exact same exact assets were sold off for 10x value in cash to another acquirer am I basically screwed? How would my current stock be valued since only a portion of the acquirer's company is being sold off? Anyone have any clue!?!
======
ElBarto
You sold something. What happens to it after that is no longer your concern.
At least you are a shareholder of a company that has just made a good deal in
cash. But from what you wrote it seems that that company is privately held, so
your shares are not so liquid, i.e. may not be so easy to sell. As a
shareholder you should have access to company info.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Exercising stock options with imminent new round of funding (AMT panic) - tootall
Hi,<p>I am likely looking to leave (within the next few weeks) the startup I am currently working for, and go to one of the top 4 for several reasons.<p>(Un)fortunately, the startup appreciated considerably since I joined 3 years ago, and now the cost of exercising my option + AMT tax would be around ~110k (I calculated the value manually and also used TurboTax to simulate the transaction, it turns out ~40k for exercising + ~70k for AMT).<p>Now, on top of this insane amount of money that I have to pay out of pocket, there is even a bigger problem: The math I've done for the taxes is based on the 409A valuation of the company done at the last round of funding (Series B) a year ago (it's still the official number HR provided me). I have reasons to believe a Series C will be imminent (i.e. a month or two away).<p>The question I have is: if I leave, say, two weeks from now, and write a check for $40k to the HR department for exercising my vested options, can I use the check date as "exercise" date, meaning that I'll be sure the valuation for AMT purposes will still be the one of the Series B? Or will I have to wait until the board & lawyers approve the whole thing, which could mean the FMV will likely have increased by then because of the Series C (and I will be effectively screwed, because the AMT tax portion would be much larger?).<p>In other words, would this timeline work?<p>- (April 2017) I leave the company and pay $40k for exercising<p>- (May 2017) The company raises the Series C, increasing its
value<p>- (June/July 2017) Lawyers/board process my exercise and send me the certificate saying I am a stock owner<p>- (at some point between August 2017 and April 2018) I pay $70k to IRS, even if the FMV is increased<p>Thank you
======
calcsam
You should call a tax lawyer ASAP. This is above HN readers' pay grades.
FWIW, we had a similar situation at Zenefits, but were advised it would
probably be all right if we exercised before the company officially started
raising $.
George Grellas comments on Hacker News frequently, he may be a good option.
I'd also look into secondary markets for selling some of your shares to offset
the tax burden.
~~~
tootall
Thanks for the precious information!
I thought about asking here because it's not the first time HN saves my "life"
by providing proper perspective on important decisions.
------
prostoalex
Talk to the stock admin at your company. They will provide you with an
exercise form.
> can I use the check date as "exercise" date, meaning that I'll be sure the
> valuation for AMT purposes will still be the one of the Series B
Correct, it's whatever date you'll have on the exercise form, but still, talk
to the stock admin for the most recent common stock valuation.
You don't have to disclose your departure, your ISO exercise is an independent
event and can happen at the advice of your tax advisor.
~~~
tootall
Thank you!
I'm absolutely also going to get in touch with HR and also get a proper tax
accountant.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Cheap and Reliable IAAS Provider for a web app? - yawz
If you had an on-line product/web app to launch, which IAAS provider would you pick, knowing that initially your funds are very limited? You don't want to break the bank but would like to have the option to scale out if necessary without it becoming very expensive with load (I particularly want to stay away from solutions that are free or almost free to start but expensive to scale).
======
cbhl
If your funds are truly limited (<$100):
\- design your app in a way that isn't locked to a given IAAS provider so that
you can switch if the economics change
\- go find a special interest group (e.g. local startup incubator) that is
eligible for IAAS credits; if you tell people you're doing a startup and you
look legit, IAAS providers will trip over each other to give you thousands of
dollars of free credits
~~~
yawz
Thanks you. Your last point is very interesting. I'll do some research on
that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is AOL buying Techcrunch? - mg1313
http://www.quora.com/TechCrunch/Is-AOL-acquiring-TechCrunch-How-much-are-they-paying-for-it
======
mg1313
Summary of Om Malik story from September 27: * AOL is on the verge of
acquiring TechCrunch. * The deal is at a sensitive stage and might fall apart
yet, but I don’t think so. * Sources familiar with both entities says that the
announcement is likely to come onstage at Disrupt, TechCrunch’s flagship
conference currently underway in San Francisco. * AOL CEO Tim Armstrong is
likely to make an appearance at the conference, and perhaps that’s when the
announcement is likely to be made. * AOL in the past had acquired Weblogs
Inc., the blogging company behind popular sites such as Engadget. Those blogs
have helped AOL compensate for steep loss of traffic. The service has been in
the market to buy a technology blog, and is rumored to have been linked with
other technology blogs.
------
mg1313
The link to Om Malik's post: <http://gigaom.com/2010/09/27/aol-close-to-
buying-techcrunch/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What’s Right and Wrong with Media Now - vaksel
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/04/whats-right-and-wrong-with-media-now/
======
newsio
Her comments about media are shallow, and the main point of this post is to
plug her book.
I am surprised TechCrunch prints this kind of thing. No value-add, IMHO.
~~~
wmeredith
After reading this story, I'd like to quote Jack Donaghy from 30 Rock when he
said, "If I want to be told something I already know, I'll go read The
Huffington Post."
This article complains about how salacious "reporting" sells then plugs her
own researched book. It's full of hyperbole like, "If this is where media is
going on a book level, magazine level or blog level—I want out." It's also
worth noting that in that statement she's talking about the contents of a book
she hasn't read.
------
bonsaitree
A TC post on HN which apparently features "journalism" from Ms. Lacy. I call
double-fault & loss of serve.
Ms. Lacy can't string English sentences together with even a modicum of
workmanship competence. She cites reference she hasn't even read, crassly
pimps her own works in 3rd party organs, and continues to offer exclusively
hyperbolic punditry over reasoned & thoughtful analysis.
What's wrong with media today? I offer up the "career" of Ms. Sarah Lacy.
~~~
brandnewlow
...says a guy hiding behind an anonymous profile.
Where are your examples to back of each of these claims? I'd gladly entertain
an argument that she's not as good as she's cracked up to be, but an argument
that she lacks "even a modicum of workmanship competence" is ridiculous.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Opinionated view of Swift from a Ruby/Objective-C/JavaScript Developer - ankurpatel
http://blog.encoredevlabs.com/post/88236228430/opinionated-view-of-swift-from-a
======
msie
I'm glad that Swift is more like Python and less like Ruby or Javascript. Too
much meta/DSL capability means I won't be able to easily understand other
people's libraries.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An Ancient Virus May Be Responsible for Human Consciousness - bcaulfield
https://www.livescience.com/61627-ancient-virus-brain.html
======
bcaulfield
Original paper here:
[http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)31502-7](http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674\(17\)31502-7)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NSFW: Show HN: Vintage Porn [video] - dittes
http://vintasy.com
======
dittes
This is what we built the last 4 hours. For alternative content see what we
built last time: [http://vintagecartoons.tv](http://vintagecartoons.tv)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Oxford's Covid Vaccine Front-Runner Is Months Ahead of Her Competition - mherrmann
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-15/oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-coronavirus-front-runner
======
nabla9
The problem with this first across wins race is that if regulators accept
accept a vaccine with low efficacy, then it probably prevents the development
of a vaccine with higher efficacy.
The 50 percent effective goal WHO and others give is very low. It's not enough
to provide herd immunity.
~~~
lbeltrame
The goal is not to immunize, but to prevent hospitalizations (at least their
goal according to the article). If this infection is downgraded to a cold
level that doesn't damage the lungs, would that be a problem?
That said, I'm not sure other vaccines will be dropped. If any of the other
candidates can give sterilizing immunity, that would be preferred.
The "race" is just to avoid shutting down the whole world again, and many
governments are afraid of an uptick of cases in the winter.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The birth of ARM, a UK tech giant. - RiderOfGiraffes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11821504
======
sambeau
I can highly recommend "Micro Men" the BBC's dramatisation of the story of
Acorn computers, the pre-curser to ARM.
It's a shame they didn't keep its original name: "Syntax Era".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wide Color Photos Are Coming to Android - el_duderino
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2019/05/wide-color-photos-are-coming-to-android.html
======
jasonkester
I really just want Android to stop messing with the camera and let it take
pictures. It's getting harder to take a photo without it stripping all the
texture from people's faces and blurring out the background, or worse.
Here's a video of me moving around on a static background, taken from a
tripod. Evidently bending the fabric of the universe as I move:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSlgOwm_eXU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSlgOwm_eXU)
That's the stock camera app on my brand new Pixel 3a. Since this was taken,
I've been experimenting with every setting possible to try to convince it that
I don't want to "pop" or be "motion stabilized" but no, there's nothing that
will stop it doing this.
I'm going to have to return the phone.
~~~
tveita
My guess would be that this is a video compression artifact, not a deliberate
image enhancement effect.
Though that doesn't help when you can't adjust the quality.
~~~
jasonkester
The odd thing is that a given piece of unrelated rock will be in perfect
focus, then suddenly go blurry when I get near it (but not so near as to cast
a shadow).
If it were video compression, you'd expect it would try to not alter pixels
that didn't change from frame to frame. But it clearly updates large swathes
of them.
Also, changing the compression mode in the camera from h.264/AVC to H/265.HEVC
doesn't fix it.
~~~
wccrawford
As far as I know, video compression works on areas, not just pixels. To me, it
looks like it's trying to update areas of the photo by moving areas of pixels,
instead of just updating them individually. This is accidentally getting more
than just the part that's moving, and making things nearby seem to move as
well.
For instance, in the video provided in another comment, when the climber
swings his legs up a bit, there's a portion of the wall that stretches behind
him, before eventually un-stretching back into place. It flows behind the
moving limbs. I suspect that if good video were taken of the scene, the leg
would also be somewhat distorted while moving, but we can't really tell
because it's supposed to be changing, unlike the rocks.
------
jacobolus
So when are web browsers going to start doing proper color management on CSS
colors and untagged images?
I gave up on pestering them about it 10 years ago after they were largely
unreceptive about the topic for several years, but it seems like it’s still a
complete shitshow.
10–14 years ago I was grumpy because my laptop display had a smaller gamut
than sRGB and everything looked bad (undersaturated). Then there were a few
years in between where most of the displays I used were close enough to sRGB
that missing color management more-or-less worked out. Now many devices have
wide-gamut displays which basically make everything on the web look like
oversaturated garbage.
Apple had color management more or less figured out on the Mac in the mid
1990s. It is absurd that it is still so hard for software made by gajillion-
dollar companies to get the bare basics right >20 years later, especially now
that we have superfast GPUs to do compositing in linear space and arbitrarily
fancy gamut mapping using floating point arithmetic, brighter and wider-gamut
displays, better cameras, ...
To the browser vendors: all untagged content must be assumed to be sRGB. If
viewers have wider-gamut displays this content must go through a CMS. If
viewers want to view wider-gamut images or other content, this must be opt-in.
The current behavior breaks color on the web. (Buy a new phone or computer and
suddenly nearly every color relationship you see on the web will be different
than the designer’s intention.)
~~~
vanderZwan
You can enable it in Firefox, but it's not on by default IIRC.
[https://cameratico.com/guides/firefox-color-
management/](https://cameratico.com/guides/firefox-color-management/)
EDIT: That's the desktop - can't speak for the mobile version. I really hope
they turn it on by default in the new mobile browser they're building. Also,
thanks, I had enabled the color management a long time ago but it apparently
was disabled again in a recent upgrade or something.
~~~
no_identd
That only takes us so far.
First of all: Chrome still has broken color management. DisplayCAL has a way
to generate profiles that look like garbage in applications which process
color profiles incorrectly, and this happens with Chrome (but not Firefox.).
Besides that, even if it had feature parity with Firefox, we'd still remain
stuck in the land of ICC color profiles, and those have a few issues.
I'd love to see web browsers support this modified version of this:
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.06067](https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.06067)
For which an implementation exists, here:
[https://github.com/nschloe/colorio](https://github.com/nschloe/colorio)
…but no operating systems and hence no browsers support it.
Edit:
See also my comment here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19983604](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19983604)
~~~
vanderZwan
> _I 'd love to see web browsers support this modified version of this_
I hear you, but at the same time this relevant xkcd comes to mind:
[https://xkcd.com/927/](https://xkcd.com/927/)
Colorio looks great, thanks for the link! Also has Jzazbz support I see, neat!
------
floatingatoll
This post’s replies are a joy to read, as someone who’s been finding and
reporting bugs in wide color pipelines for over a decade. You all are
encountering completely bog standard normal ICC issues with eyes wide open for
the first time and it’s given me a lot of hope for the next five years.
App authors and OS builders have refused for a long time to make this a
priority - I’m looking at you, Slack - and now finally with both iOS and
Android moving forward, I really hope it’ll be enough to finally force them
all to suck it up and implement proper ICC handling.
~~~
beering
Truly sRGB has been the best and worst thing to happen to color on computers.
Unfortunately there's so much misinformation and bad implementations of color
out there that I doubt end-users will ever understand or even notice problems
as they come up. I'm really hoping that HDR support will be the driving force
behind wide-color adoption, since consumers are more likely to notice when HDR
isn't working.
------
skybrian
After switching to a recent Macbook Pro and making sure it's displaying a
wider color gamut (the Android image shows up), I compared the sample images -
and didn't see the difference at first.
After reading the description, I can see that the colors are a little
brighter.
But, now that I can see it, I can't bring myself to care. I'd rather forget
about it. This won't make my life any better. It's just a way to sell more
expensive hardware, much like audiophile gear.
~~~
lm28469
It's the law of diminishing return. We went from "absolute shitty" screens to
"very good" screens in 40 years, and from then we went from "very good" to
"very good but slightly better if you squint your eyes really hard" in 10
years.
It's the same for most consumer tech, and is very noticeable on
phones/tablets/laptops. The only thing we can improve on is shaving of .25mm
every gen and calling it a revolution. Or adding machine learning + a 8k
screen to our smartphones to explain why you need to spend 1000$+ on a 10 core
cpu and 8gb of ram.
The complexity skyrockets, the price doubles but the user experience barely
changes, and sometimes it's not even a positive change. Because at the end of
the day the vast majority of people just want a basic camera, spotify, netflix
and google maps.
------
skunkworker
That android logo is a cool use of Wide Gamut and an easy test on a display.
[https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LqRniYeVeEk/XOLYEiOcKCI/AAAAAAAAJ...](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LqRniYeVeEk/XOLYEiOcKCI/AAAAAAAAJXI/IAn0yO21XYkwnkUnDlHtdPGI6VyMDEoeACLcBGAs/s1600/android_p3.png)
If on a Pixel 3 or Samsung Galaxy S10 or another P3 capable display, it's a
faint-but-visible red logo. Otherwise it's just solid red.
Edit: If not on Android Q, try using Firefox.
There seem to be some odd behavior depending on the software and this may not
be always consistent.
~~~
marzell
I'm on a Pixel 3. It's just solid red - no faint logo.
~~~
skunkworker
Odd. I'm on an iPhone XS and it's working for me.
It might be included only in the Android Q update.
Googling around shows that it might be restricted to custom apps only?
"There is one way to bypass this issue, and that is to explicitly tell Chrome
to override the default provided system colour profile and just tell it the
display is Display P3. This enables colour management in the app, and short of
writing a custom application, is the only way to get wide colour gamut content
to work on the Pixel 3."
[https://www.anandtech.com/show/13474/the-google-
pixel-3-revi...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/13474/the-google-
pixel-3-review/4)
------
ohazi
LG V35.
Chrome displays a red square, Firefox displays the wide gamut Android logo.
Good job, Google.
------
magicalist
Does anyone know of any popular camera image formats (ie not raw) that are
actually using more than 8 bits per color?
The blog post mentions "8 bits per color channel is not enough", but as far as
I can tell everyone using Display P3 for consumer-grade photos (including the
iPhone) is still using 8 bits per color, just over the wider gamut.
It seems weird that this hasn't become a thing with the big marketing push
behind HDR10 and others for TV. You might think "backwards compatibility", but
Apple was fine making the HEIF break and converting when sharing with
incompatible devices.
~~~
foolrush
It's not entirely about bit depth. Think about 1 bit of a given colour light,
it can turn on or off, but the bit depth doesn't tell us anything about the
colour of the light it is turning on or off.
Encoding in a larger volume colour space may require additional bit depth to
prevent posterization, but that's somewhat tangential. The larger issue is the
number of vendors and operating systems that can't get it right. Windows is
horrific, for example, with Android being at least as bad, as given by the
accounts in the comments here.
~~~
magicalist
> _It 's not entirely about bit depth_
Are you trying to post the same thing in every top-level thread to get your
comment seen? This has nothing to do with what I was asking, which was pretty
much "everything about gamut and display aside, what's the deal with bit
depth?". Hopefully you can see how your response is a distraction.
------
herf
There are not two but three cases for the red logo:
1\. You have no color management: you see the logo, but it is desaturated
2\. You have a working CMS and standard gamut: no logo
3\. You have a working CMS and wide gamut: logo is correct
#1 is true because the image has different values. #2 maps all the colors to
the monitor's gamut and so you can't see anything on a standard display.
------
hayksaakian
They say that an S10 should see it but my S10 with up to date Google Chrome
doesn't show the android logo in the red image.
Funny enough I can see it just fine on my Macbook Pro running the latest
Firefox stable.
~~~
PascalW
On my S10e it indeed doesn't work on Chrome, but it does work on Firefox.
------
saagarjha
Is it just me, or do the cloud images look different even without a wide color
gamut display (I have a MacBook Pro from 2015).
~~~
foolrush
Correct.
Haven't looked at the image too deeply, but this is likely the rendering
intent being set so something other than the colorimetric offerings, such as
Perceptual or Saturation. It could also be a poorly encoded image as well.
~~~
foolrush
Deeper inspection reveals that both are tagged sRGB, which indicates they are
for demonstrative purposes only.
------
sytelus
Looks like iPhone XS already has support for wide gamut. I can see Android
logo on red image on Safari as well as Chrome on XS but I can see it bit less
bright on sRGB monitors also.
[https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-
re...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-review-
unveiling-the-silicon-secrets/8)
~~~
czhiddy
Proper wide-gamut colorspace support has been around on macOS since 2015:
[https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-
web/](https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-web/)
------
qubitcoder
You can force enable wide color support in Chrome via a flag (assuming your
display supports wider gamuts, of course).
See chrome://flags/#force-color-profile
------
Tarragon
I'm amused that chrome on Win10 does not pass their simple red logo test.
~~~
curiousgal
Chrome vs Firefox on the Pixel 2
[https://i.imgur.com/kwirB6C.png](https://i.imgur.com/kwirB6C.png)
~~~
zawerf
I am confused about why I can see this screenshot since I am not on a wide
gamut monitor. Is firefox doing a weird conversion or the screenshotting tool?
My (probably flawed) understanding was that wide colors means there's more
than 8 bits. So stuff that would be say rgb(254.5, 0, 0) would now be
distinguishable from rgb(255, 0, 0)? If you screenshotted it back to 8 bit you
would just lose the extra bits and I expected to still see a red square? Or is
that not how it works?
~~~
TwoBit
Yes flawed. If you have a bitmap that's using a wide color space (e. g.
P3/OLED) and it has a green (0,1,0) pixel then that's referring to a color
than an LCD display cannot possibly show. 0,1,0 on an LCD is a less saturated
green. The OS changes color values to try to make things look as much as
expected as possible, and that results in color clipping. A screenshot saves
images as sRGB and so no remapping is done upon display.
------
rplst8
So this red Android logo works on my moto x4 running Pie in Firefox, but not
in Chrome. Uhhh.
~~~
fenwick67
Yeah my moto g4+ with Firefox shows the Android as well, heh
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What's up, bot? Google tries new Captcha method - nickb
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10222514-2.html
======
pavel_lishin
I think one fascinating aspect of this whole thing is that by creating tougher
and tougher captchas, Google and the like are actually helping make great
strides in the field of image recognition by forcing spammers to adapt.
~~~
snprbob86
The truth of the whole thing is that Google primarily relies on _behavior_ to
detect bots. Captures are just an added layer of defense and serve as a pretty
good way of seeding the behavior database. If some user appears to be a bot,
serve them a captcha. If they fail, then that behavior was bot-like. Google is
using captchas as a way to learn image recognition as well as bot behavior
patterns. They know full well that they won't be able to rely on captchas for
ever, but they will sure as hell collect as much data out of them as possible.
~~~
rarestnews
Actually I'm really tired of that Google's attempts. The other day I tried to
find a something like a .txt file containing all the verbs. I tired searching
for "finding resting searching" without quotes, Google kept giving me "find
rest search", so I tried quoting it: " "finding" "resting" "searching" ", and
adding more and more. Most of those were in anchors, not in text, I added:
"allintext:"finding" ..." and here it is: "Looks like you are a bot! I can't
allow you search for that." :)
Sometimes it's really tempting to write "Google" into Google. :)
~~~
nebula
Dear God, what's wrong with a query like 'allintext:"finding"' ? I got curious
and tried just this query, and sure enough Google said that the query looks
like an automated one. It means it's not the pattern of the queries that you
have sent that triggered this 'you are a bot' response from Google. It's just
the one query allintext:"finding". Removing quotes allowed it to be processed.
I thought it might have to do with the fact that a single word is enclosed in
quotes; i.e., when a person is searching generally there is no reason why one
would put a single word in quotes. On the other hand an automated search might
enclose search text in quotes by default without parsing the text and figuring
out whether it contains multiple words or a single word. But it turns out that
is not the reason. A query like allintext:"Google sucks" still elicits the
'you are a bot response'. It looks like they ban all queries that enclose text
in quotes for an allintext. Might be a bug.
~~~
lacker
Actually when a single word is quoted in a google search it does something -
it turns off the matching of words against similar words.
For example if you search for the misspelled [netflixs] you will still get
netflix.com, but you can turn that off by quoting the word with the query
["netflixs"]. The plus sign works similarly.
Compare:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=netflixs>
[http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22netflixs%22](http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22netflixs%22)
------
omarchowdhury
A lot of spam operations use humans to solve captchas, so this isn't much of a
change for them (actually could make it easier for them).
~~~
rarestnews
Also it's sometimes used as porn-bait (i.e. enter captcha to enter the "free"
site).
Human solving is pretty cheap too. I've heard quotes about $2 for 1000
captchas. I guess with 1 click instead of 5-7 letters + enter - it's going to
be cents per thousand soon enough, cause you don't even need to know keyboard
well or type fast enough. So, I'd say that might be a step backwards.
~~~
DenisM
I've heard this pron meme before, but didn't see any actual proof. Do you have
sources?
~~~
rarestnews
You can't be that lazy :)
<http://google.com/search?q=porn+captcha>
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7067962.stm>
[http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/10/creative_...](http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2007/10/creative_ways_t.html)
(note the quoted part from article) and probably a thousand others
Also I personally did stumble to Google's captcha in quite a few sites
(borderline porn) posing it as their own for registration purposes (sometimes
monochromed though). Google has easily recognizable captcha.
~~~
DenisM
A few years back (probably in 2006 or 2007) I talked to a bunch of researches
who were working on image recongition and they told me they searched high and
low for any proof of this and didn't find it. So I have had a cached opinion
since then until about 5 minutes ago. :-)
------
amix
I have implemented something similar called "Visual captcha", where the user
has to pick the cat out from 6 randomized Flickr pictures. The code is freely
available and should not be hard to integrate into your own projects. Read
more on: <http://amix.dk/blog/viewEntry/19338>
~~~
henning
Is that really effective? Just take some face detection code and have it learn
what cat fur looks like instead.
~~~
amix
It's ok effective judging by my usages and I could just iterate over this
solution if someone brute forced it or implemented a "cat fur detector" (which
for my uses is pretty unrealistic).
Battling spammers is really a battle where you implement better protections
and they implement better attacks. The conclusion so far has been that it
isn't possible to check-mate them - - and it's very unlikely it will ever
happen as a lot of spammers use "human bots"...
Using visual captcha is much more user friendly thought, so it's a win for the
users.
------
qeorge
That's a cool idea, but they'll still have to provide an audio CAPTCHA for
blind users, which is easy to solve.
~~~
markbao
Really?
<https://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount>
~~~
ctingom
Wow, I could barely make out the audio captcha!
~~~
pavel_lishin
But you could still make it out, right?
~~~
antiismist
I couldn't figure out the audio captcha. People who are blind probably have
better hearing, so maybe it's easier for them.
~~~
harpastum
I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence that young blind people have better-
than-average hearing, but what about the elderly?
I'm not sure anyone I know over 70 years old could pass either of those
captchas. I guess the only consolation is that most people that age often have
younger people sign up for them.
------
vaksel
can't someone figure out an anti-spam method that doesn't require a captcha? I
mean its not like captchas even work, I'm yet to see one that works 100%
~~~
Goladus
The best you'll ever get is human to human contact.
But that doesn't scale cheaply.
~~~
shader
And there is the essence of the need for captchas ;)
You need to scale, so you employ computers instead of people. Now you have to
have computers run a reverse turing test. Otherwise, it's much easier for
spammers to scale as well.
It's easy to cut down on spam if you don't accept any incoming mail.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The All American Aldi - briandear
https://www.theawl.com/2017/12/the-all-american-aldi/
======
linkmotif
There’s a lot wrong with this piece, starting from the subhead:
> unfriendly German efficiency.
Aldis are some of the friendliest grocery stores I know. Their employees
always seems happier than employees other places. And my guess is because they
treat them well. The stores close at a reasonable hours, are always closed on
holidays. My guess is they pay employees reasonably too, because the job
postings always list decent seeming wages.
> In New York City, the company’s only location (for now) is on 117th on the
> banks of the East River.
Unless Queens is no longer in New York City, there has been and Aldi in Rego
Park for years now. It’s a pretty good one too, right by Q train and Queens
Mall.
> If you are at Aldi, it’s because you needed groceries and you went out to
> get them, not because you were tempted in by a cute box of chocolates,
Nonsense! What a bunch of BS this line. They sell awesome seasonal assortments
of cookies and chocolates of all varieties, imported from Germany or USA
local.
> The fact that Aldi is only starting to make concessions to US norms
What norms? Like giving all your money back to the man as soon as you get it?
And on and on and on this article.
The Awl... :( everything they touch is classist. Here they survey the poors
who shop for food and their sad grocery store. Gross.
~~~
tptacek
"The poors"? Grocery stores in black and (particularly) latino neighborhoods
in Chicago --- ie, the poorest neighborhoods --- are nothing like this
description of Aldi, or any Aldi or TJ's I've ever been in. Most have better
produce than Whole Foods, a giant meat counter, and minimal, off-brand
packaged foods. You cannot buy a $3 bottle of richly floral dark extra virgin
olive oil at Del Rancho Market, and the greens are not shrinkwrapped in
plastic.
I'm sure the demographics of Aldi customers is sharply lower-income than that
of Whole Foods, but I dispute the idea that Aldi gets to play the standard-
bearer of the working class.
~~~
kasey_junk
Aldi has a pretty good penetration in working class Chicago neighborhoods and
unlike Whole Foods or Mariano’s that’s not new.
I don’t know what it means to be a standard bearer of the working class for a
grocery store but Aldis has for a long time gone places others don’t & more
notably stocked the same stuff in those locations as their more well heeled
locations. That’s fairly rare for a national (or even large regional) chain.
I’d add that I find the description of Aldis as dingy & lowlight not matching
my experience now or in the past.
~~~
tptacek
I don't know what those words mean either. I guess I would just push back on
the idea that a criticism of Aldi is necessarily a criticism of grocery stores
for the working class.
Aldi in Chicago might be a west-side south-side thing? There aren't many south
of Fullerton and west of Kedzie, but there are lots of grocery stores for
black and latino markets, and they don't look (on the inside) that much like
Aldi.
Certainly I don't have a problem with Aldi. They're better than Dominicks was,
and in some ways more admirable as a business than Whole Foods.
~~~
kasey_junk
(Shrug) the Aldis in Woodlawn was far and away the nicest grocery store in the
neighborhood. I never noticed a tremendous difference between it and other
grocery stores other than the “Moo & Oink” which was weird in its own special
way.
~~~
tptacek
no shrugs we must litigate this to its full conclusion i'm getting in the car
now
------
freeflight
As a German, this article kinda reads like a misconception about what Aldi is
actually supposed to be and what it's doing right now: It's a discounter,
always has been a discounter and now it's trying to be a "discounter with
class".
You don't go to Aldi to get the biggest selection and all the big brands, you
go to Aldi to pay less for your food because Aldi doesn't spend as much money
on making "everything look nice and have the widest selection" compared to
their competition, at least here in Germany, so they can undercut the
competition with prices.
Recently Aldi Süd has started to change this, even in Germany. Stores are
being renovated and made to look "fancier", with some added selection in
wares, getting closer to other non-discounter supermarkets like Edeka and
Rewe. At this point, Aldi exists on kind of a middle ground between the pure
discounters like Netto and the "brand supermarkets" like Edeka.
------
MrBuddyCasino
A few years ago there was some Aldi anniversary, with accompanying editorial
articles in the newspaper and stuff.
What surprised me was how many poor people expressed their gratitude to Aldi
in the comment sections, saying that few companies did so much to enable them
to life a dignified live by offering cheap but decent quality groceries.
~~~
Roritharr
Aldi is the main reason my (widowed & working) mother was able to budget our
expenses to not let us know how little money we had, that in itself gives me
the same feeling of gratitude.
I've come to realize this later on in life when managing my own finances how
much of an impact shopping at Aldi must have made to my mother. We had good
homecooked food whenever possible, 90% bought from Aldi. I still feel like a
failure sometimes when I check my bank statement and see how much I spend on
food bought elsewhere.
~~~
froindt
>I still feel like a failure sometimes when I check my bank statement and see
how much I spend on food bought elsewhere.
Out of curiosity, why don't you shop there now?
~~~
Roritharr
I do, but not as often as I should.
Convenience and falling prey to marketing gets me to part with my hard earned
cash too easily.
------
fencepost
Perhaps Aldi stores in expensive parts of NYC ("It's not Amazon, it's the
rent" in the last few days....) are dim and cramped like my midwestern mental
image of a NYC bodega, but out here in the great wide open every Aldi I've
been to is brightly lit, with wide aisles and shelving that's not stacked up
to over my head. In a word, bright and roomy.
Aldi isn't a gourmet shop with dozens of varieties of truffle oil, but it
doesn't pretend to be. Instead they have nice, bright, roomy stores that
frankly I'd recommend as a first place to stop for anyone mobility impaired
because everything is reachable (caveat: BYOScooter). It's entirely possible
that some items they sell aren't up to the quality level of top-tier branded
versions of the same thing, but they're decent quality at frequently excellent
prices.
~~~
maxsilver
I think it depends on the age. I'm also in the Midwest, and the two older Aldi
stores here that were built in the 90's are dim and cramped (they're both
still open, and still that way today). They tend to look like this ->
[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNeZx43jXsM/TyoFKEU_9hI/AAAAAAAAKg...](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNeZx43jXsM/TyoFKEU_9hI/AAAAAAAAKg0/f1pPAjF40Go/s1600/aldi.jpg)
and [http://cdn.arn.com.au/media/7139552/aldi-old-
man.jpg](http://cdn.arn.com.au/media/7139552/aldi-old-man.jpg)
But the newer Aldi remodeled stores are bright and roomy and nice. They tend
to look like this -> [https://corporate.aldi.us/fileadmin/fm-
dam/Media_Pages/Store...](https://corporate.aldi.us/fileadmin/fm-
dam/Media_Pages/Store_Images/Full/ALDI_Store_Interior.jpg)
~~~
fencepost
What I was saying about aisle widths and shelf heights even applies to the
older ones I've been in, and I've never been in one that I'd consider dim.
------
southphillyman
I recently got into an online argument with a woman because she claimed that
eating healthy was more expensive than eating fast food or from chinese take
outs . I countered that I feed two adults on $40 a week by shopping on the
perimeter of the market and/or shopping at Aldi's. Cutting my diet down to
basically fresh fruits/vegetables and poultry has really saved me a lot of
money. My local Aldi's has a dozen eggs for less than $1 and I can get 6
chicken wings for $3! Aldi's has really hit the market and improved on the
affordable market concept that places like Save-A-Lot mostly failed on.
~~~
froindt
>My local Aldi's has a dozen eggs for less than $1 and I can get 6 chicken
wings for $3!
Maybe I have a local anomaly in egg prices, but I was picking those up for 37
cents/dozen all summer, then moved to a larger town (also in Iowa) and they
moved up to about 60 cents/dozen.
~~~
psy-q
Wow, U.S. egg pricing seems crazy to me. It's US$ 9.90/dozen in Switzerland at
a normal nationwide store vs. US$ 5.90 at Aldi Suisse (both selling free-range
Swiss eggs).
This can't be explained just by purchase power differences. Considering the
conditions even for Swiss free-range chickens aren't good, are they
particularly terrible for chickens laying 5 cent eggs? I couldn't find any
information (not even pricing) on the Aldi US site.
~~~
froindt
I come from Iowa, which is by a large margin the largest egg producer in the
country. It could be partially a locality thing (very little transportation).
Also of note, this last summer was very very rough for chicken production.
Prices were very low compared to input costs, and chicken farmers were losing
their shirts. Chicken renderers (mass killing of chickens when the price drops
too much) were backed up for many weeks.
[http://www.aeb.org/farmers-and-marketers/industry-
overview](http://www.aeb.org/farmers-and-marketers/industry-overview)
~~~
psy-q
That's horrible. I just looked at some farming methods. Man, all the evils of
humanity...
Caging has been illegal in Switzerland since 1992, that probably makes part of
the price difference. So egg collection can be automated easily in a U.S.
process (in states where cages are legal) but is harder to automate here. I
would guess they still use nest boxes so there could theoretically be an
automatic method from the nest box to a conveyor belt. I'll research if
Switzerland hand-collects things, then the wage difference of whoever does
that plus vastly more expensive land could explain the rest of the price.
------
rndmize
> Aldi makes absolutely no effort to tempt through sensual delight. It’s a
> perfect example of spare, unfriendly German efficiency. All the goods are
> displayed on metal racks in their original cardboard shipping containers—no
> labor wasted on display; there are maybe two options for each type of
> product—no shelf space wasted on a tenth variety of cracker that is
> purchased by that one guy every month; employees can be found, more or less
> exclusively, at checkout, where they will ring you up but not provide you
> with bags or, god forbid, bag your groceries for you. Efficiency also
> applies to production, in that almost all the goods are house brands.
> Nothing extraneous comes between product and customer—hence the high quality
> of Aldi goods with incredibly low prices (show me another store with a dark,
> fragrant extra virgin olive oil for three dollars and change).
So... Costco? It feels like there's a lot of other options as far as places to
buy food that the author doesn't seem to know much about.
~~~
TillE
Costcos are enormous warehouses located miles out in the suburbs. Aldi is a
tiny store that you can probably walk to.
------
smhg
As a European it sounds like the article mixes up Aldi Sud and Nord.
Aldi Sud is a wonderful place compared to the (old) Aldi Nord.
I have no idea where/how they source their products, but in-store Aldi Sud
feels quite high quality. With many dietary options and many common brands.
The only real difference to other stores being (almost) one brand per product.
Which makes shopping so easy!
~~~
paulmd
Oddly, it's the other way around in the US. Trader Joe's (Aldi Sud) is upscale
and Aldi (Aldi Nord) is the downscale one (not that it's bad or anything).
~~~
pasbesoin
As I understand it, from a second-hand but reliable recounting, in the foreign
market (outside Germany), the two Aldi's have mostly divided the markets on a
country basis. (One or the other will be present in a country, but not both.)
The large and rich U.S. is the exception, where the Aldi name is used by one
of the two (from other comments here, Aldi Nord, I guess -- oops, another
comment says Sued), while the other (Aldi Sued, then -- or Nord, it seems) is
present through its Trader Joe's mark and model.
By me, the nearest Aldi is a dingy looking affair with a pretty small and
limited selection. I don't mean of brands, but simply of products and produce.
This may be just this particular location, which is kind of out of the way.
Trader Joe's has been very slowly expanding its store base, and those I find
much more useful, though they are still small and don't have the range of
coverage that a supermarket has. I've seen the same employees at those stores
for years -- and years. And gotten to know some of them, to varying degrees.
Their staff stick.
------
desireco42
I find that author tried to make some point but it is completely lost on me.
My Aldi experience or American Supermarket experience differ from what he
describes. Aldi has quality items and you are supposed to do the work of pick
them up and package them. Prices are lower then other places.
Checkout is example of efficiency, I know their checkout people are paid much
better then other places and it is clear why, they scan those things like a
lightning.
~~~
froindt
>...I know their checkout people are paid much better then other places and it
is clear why, they scan those things like a lightning.
I'm an industrial engineer. I love efficiency. I primarily shop at Aldi
because the prices beat anywhere else and I love finding the little things
they do to be efficient.
_Only a couple employees at a time working, sharing all jobs as needed.
_ Conveyor belts long enough to hold approximately 1 cart of groceries. This
lets everything get queued up for the checker.
_Leaving the boxes with the product. One waste stream is manged by reuse then
recycling by customers while also avoiding the cost of bags.
_ No local phone number publicly listed. Cuts calls out.
_Barcode on most sites of product so they don 't need to be in a specific
orientation.
_their POS is setup for speed. They can scan an item and type a quantity
quickly. At other grocery stores I haven't seen this happen (probably
partially because of the large number of similar but not identical items).
_almost all produce is pre-weighed and price labeled, or by quantity.
_ By having only one of most products, they reduce waste from low-running
products going bad.
*They don't stock every single thing you need. It's a bit annoying to not have Worcestershire sauce when you need it, but in my experience Aldi is nearby other shopping venues.
Also their pricing for spices cannot be beat. It's only about 18 basic spices
carried, but I've never seen a cheaper price per unit.
------
revelation
There are no concessions, they are updating the stores in Europe all the same.
Pictures from very early 2016:
[http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/handel/aldi-mit-neuem-
ladende...](http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/handel/aldi-mit-neuem-ladendesign-
so-sieht-der-edel-aldi-aus/12807568.html#image)
~~~
thesumofall
Indeed - that bothered me about that article as well. Aldi in Germany has
since a while recognized that customer expectations are evolving and that
other supermarkets offer superior “feel” at similarly low prices. Hence the
upgrade. Guess a bit of a similar story as McDonalds’s push for higher
(perceived?) quality
------
em3rgent0rdr
I find fascinating how Aldi split akin to how the Roman Empire split, "The
separate Aldi companies came about 50 years ago: the brothers disagreed about
some business practices and decided to split the company along geographic
lines across Germany."
[https://consumerist.com/2016/08/15/the-family-that-owns-
trad...](https://consumerist.com/2016/08/15/the-family-that-owns-trader-joes-
is-having-a-frugality-war/)
------
tinbad
I haven’t been to an Aldi in the US but the ones I’ve been in Europe have all
been very barebones and the atmosphere reminded somewhat of communist grocery
stores from when I lived in USSR.
Funny notice when I first came to US and visited Trader Joe’s I immediately
wondered if it was owned by Aldi (it is). The concept is very similar (one
product of each, no choice of brands) but executed very differently. Whereas
Aldi is trying to be as cheap as possible, TJ seems to cater to urban
hipsters. And yes, personnel is much friendlier too!
Also, in the Netherlands Aldi had the reputation of “Walmart” of employers.
Many stories of poor working conditions like timed bathroom breaks, etc.
~~~
pgeorgi
Aldi Netherlands is different (belongs to Aldi North) from Aldi USA (belongs
to Aldi South).
In Germany the "Walmart" reputation belongs to Walmart (who withdrew from the
German market because they couldn't exploit employees the way they could
elsewhere), with Lidl being a close second.
With family having worked in HR in retail, I heard that they sometimes had
staffing issues because Aldi outcompeted them all (incl. high-end clothing
stores) on wages.
------
k__
Aldi is a prime example why Walmart failed in Germany.
------
holydude
Article full of stereotypes. So nowdays costsavings are presented as german
efficiency my fucking ass.
------
marze
A few months ago I was shopping at Trader Joe’s, and having only recently
learned of the Aldi connection, I asked my checker how it was working for a
German grocer.
He had no idea. He’d been working there three years.
------
chrismeller
> Since it first opened its doors in Iowa in 1976, it has established 1,600
> locations across the nation. Over the next five years, it announced in June,
> that number will jump to 2,500, putting its reach alongside that of Walmart
> and Krogers.
Ehh, it is currently in the same realm as Safeway (1300 stores). In 5 years,
if all goes according to plan, it hopes to be closer to Kroger (2800 stores).
It is not, nor will it even come close in the next 5 years, to being a
Walmart, who already has 4700 stores.
Particularlu given the love of the US for membership-based big box stores like
Costco I also doubt a budget chain (that, last I checked, still charged you 25
cents for a shopping card), will become quite the “staple” Walmart or any
other normal supermarket chain is.
~~~
lotsofpulp
They don't charge you for using a shopping cart, it's a refunded deposit to
get people to return their carts to the cart storage areas.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tree-nation: tree-hugger facebook (buy a tree and watch it grow) - s2r2
http://www.tree-nation.com/
======
s2r2
This actually is a great present for someone. „Look, I give you a tree in
Senegal and you can watch its growing process.“
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Chrome extension – Keyword search volume for Google analytics and GWT - spocked
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/keywords-everywhere/hbapdpeemoojbophdfndmlgdhppljgmp
======
zeeshanm
Every time you search on Google a request is made to
[https://keywordkeg.com/service/1/getKeywordData.php](https://keywordkeg.com/service/1/getKeywordData.php)
to grab pricing/volume data. This means keywordkeg is aware of all your google
searches. A privacy-aware solution could have been to make direct requests to
Google API without proxying via keywordkeg middleware.
~~~
spocked
You can go to the options page and simply disable any of the supported
websites.
Additionally, if you see the source code, you can see that there is no
tracking information sent to the API - only the keyword.
There is also no way to send requests to the Google API to get keyword data.
------
endymi0n
Pure genius... provide some value to marketers and then steal all their best
performing keywords and campaign data to the toolbar :)
~~~
spocked
You could simply generate a large amount of noise and send it to the API to
foil any such evil plan.
The API url used is right there in the chrome JavaScript code, as mentioned by
someone else on this thread. Very easy to write a simple script to send random
words to the API.
------
nekitamo
This is nice. Where are you pulling the data from? How do we know it's
accurate?
~~~
zeeshanm
Looking into source code of chrome ext and
[https://keywordkeg.com](https://keywordkeg.com) it appears they are using
Google AdWords, MOZ and other APIs.
------
techaddict009
How about adding tutorial on how to use this plugin? This is big problem with
chrome extension devs. No tutorial anywhere!
------
danvoell
I bit and added it, please don't slow down my chrome to a crawl, thanks!
~~~
spocked
You shouldn't see any slowdown. The code uses minimal resources - reads the
table data, calls a webservice and injects the keyword volume and cpc numbers.
~~~
danprime
I can see the usefullness of this tool but it's not clear how to use it. I
installed it but nothing changed (i.e. there's no button in the toolbar). I
tried restarting Chrome hoping to see some changes, nothing. I went to the
extensions settings page but all I see are checkboxes for different see
screenshot: [http://imgur.com/rOBCMmj](http://imgur.com/rOBCMmj)
It would be extremely helpful to have even a basic tutorial page/link pop up
after installation (you can add this hook in the manifest.json).
~~~
spocked
That's a good point. Will add a tutorial in the next version.
There is no setup to be done. Once the extension is enabled, you simply visit
any supported website and the keyword metrics will show up automatically. Just
google for a keyword and the keyword data should be seen under the search box.
Visit Google Search Console or Analytics, and keyword columns automatically
appear inside the table.
If you are having any issues with this, please do email me at
[email protected] and I'll be happy to figure out why its not working for
you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is Silicon Valley only interested in the problems of twentysomethings? - sethbannon
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/is-silicon-valley-only-interested-in-the-problems-of-twentysomethings/
======
ritchiea
The title is deceptive because shortly after asking that question in the
article, the author comes to a resounding "no" and goes on to talk about why
it is our impression that SV only works on the problems of 20-somethings. The
core of the author's comment comes at the end:
"Imagine how odd it would be to read an article saying that the people who
work for manufacturing firms are really just out to make money, or that they
don’t seem interested enough in current events. It is only because Silicon
Valley has done such an extraordinary job branding itself that articles about
their social conscience, or lack thereof, seem completely reasonable. But the
tech sector is, on the whole, much more like other sectors of the economy than
it likes to believe, or than it likes anyone else to believe."
~~~
seanlinehan
Here is a strategy that I have heard repeated a few times: When you see a
rhetorical question in the title of a news article, the answer is no. The
answer is always no. The article may say maybe. But the answer is no. Just
like that you've saved yourself a few minutes.
~~~
logn
I've come to count on another thing too: someone on HN comments will always
point out the answer is 'no' and then point out this generality, and then
you'll often have a comment like mine point this out. :)
~~~
moron4hire
omg, I can create noisy posts, too.
------
destraynor
That's not true, every time a founder becomes a parent they build shitty
solutions to all those problems too :)
But seriously this whole angle frustrates me.
Who decided that Silicon Valley had to be held over hot coals for building
software companies that solve problems and make money. Why does it always read
like "they alone inherited the problems of the universe, and are choosing to
build dickpic apps instead".
Everywhere in the world there are smart people working on dumb things. In SV
there's lots more smart people, but the percentage doesn't change. Also some
things look dumb but are actually genius in hindsight, so it's easy to
criticise these as problems for twentysomethings today, but fast forward a
decade and they're 'problems for the masses'
~~~
mhurron
> Who decided that Silicon Valley had to be held over hot coals for building
> software companies that solve problems and make money.
It would appear that Silicon Valley did. Every mundane piece of software is
going to 'change the world.' People are just waiting for that to happen.
~~~
mjn
A recent example of that: Google's Eric Schmidt and Jared Cohen just wrote a
new-agey sort of book explicitly taking that "we're here to change the world"
angle.
They _could've_ written a different book, more like one Warren Buffet might
write, about the business of software and online services, and running a
profitable company in the industry. But they don't appear to consider that to
be the bar for success.
~~~
tensor
At least some of Google's work has the possibility of changing the world: AI.
Between self driving cars, natural interface methods, and data understanding,
the future looks interesting.
On the other hand, yet another social network, photoshop filter app, todo list
app, instant messaging app, advertising app, these are not going to change the
world, though often heralded as such.
~~~
NegativeK
Google's social network and list of apps are an attempt to stay relevant so
they can change the world.
Doing expensive R&D without a money maker generally requires government help.
I don't think Google wants to go that route.
------
rverghes
It's hard to design and create software for subjects you don't know much
about. It's not really a surprise that people create software for their own
lives.
A lot of open source is focused on programming languages, libraries and things
to help you code. It's what most open source people know, and thus what they
create.
I wonder if it would have been better for CS to have been only offered as a
minor or double-major to another field of study, at least at the Bachelor
level. We would have fewer pure CS people, but a lot more people with training
in another domain.
~~~
qzxt
I second this! or something similar, at least. Having not really gone to
college, myself, I was lucky enough to have had so many varied life
experiences and interests before I took up tech; so when talking to my
colleagues who are cs-equipped, I find their methodology is often very CS
oriented, and focused more on the tech than on the problem. I think that's why
"design" has become such a big fad these days - it's almost as if we just
figured out that people buy products, not tech.
That being said, after speaking with quite a few tech-inclined people, I feel
they would be a lot more comfortable with less technically inclined subjects
if they were stripped of the general cultural pretensions that they come with.
There is a very strong resistance to "acculturation" among techies, as it is
usually seen - rightly, for the most part - as a mechanism of enforcing a
"cool kids' club", so to speak, rather than an actual venue for intellectual
exploration.
I think, that as techies, we are in a unique situation, as far as intellectual
development is concerned. The vast majority of the population can't appreciate
technical phenomena because it is culturally viewed as "too hard" or "robotic"
or "blah blah, boring". We, OTOH, actively refuse to engage with humanistic
pursuits, but not out of any perceived difficulty so much as discomfort with
the pretensions that come with "cultured society". If effort can be made to
induct some history and philosophy, and heck, maybe even theology into the the
techie culture, we could have the best of both worlds and possibly even have
some truly fresh ideas put out.
In short, it's easier to teach a physicist to write essays than it is to teach
a poet Diff Eq
~~~
mc-lovin
You characterize the situation very well.
It reminds me of the parody of the academic left in sci fi such as the novels
of Neal Stephenson and Vernor Vinge. And the parodies of religion and
philosophy are even worse.
It certainly came as a shock to me to realize that much of academia is
simultaneously incoherent and pretentious, and full of deep insights.
------
kyllo
If so, it's probably only because young adults are more likely to use the
internet and therefore have problems that can be solved by the internet.
The internet can't really fix your problems if you don't use it in the first
place. Or maybe it could, but you will never know better.
~~~
davebindy
Twenty years ago, this might have been true. I don't think it is today.
I'm 60 years old, and while I'm somewhat unusual in that computers and tech
have been part of my life, both personally and professionally, for half my
life, I would have to think pretty hard to come up with someone in my circle
of friends and relatives in the 50-80 age range who doesn't use the Internet.
My 80 year old aunt has a desktop, an iPad and an iPhone. My 81 year old
landlady spends an average of 4 hours a day online. Just examples.
We could debate their "expertise" in using the Web or software/apps in
general. On the whole, given the kinds of questions I end up fielding from
them and others, it isn't particularly high. But then again, that may actually
be the fault of the software itself, much of which is difficult for someone
for whom tech is not an abiding interest to understand. I spent 10 years
reviewing software full-time, and it was often a struggle for me to forget
what _I_ knew and judge it from the standpoint of the average Joe.
At any rate, I think it's a canard to say that older adults (or even senior
citizens, since I guess I am one now) don't use the Internet. They may not use
it the way someone younger does, but that doesn't mean they don't use it.
~~~
kyllo
You're probably right. But SV's startup culture is pretty unfriendly to 50-80
year old enployees with family and financial obligations and less risk
tolerance.
I suppose SV companies are going to tend to solve young adult problems because
they are composed of young adults. It's what they know.
~~~
davebindy
Your description of SV startup culture isn't unique - it seems to be pretty
much SOP for virtually any company these days. Lose your job after 50 and
finding an equivalent position can be daunting.
>I suppose SV companies are going to tend to solve young adult problems
because they are composed of young adults. It's what they know.
It's not only what they know, it's what they think is _cool_ as well. And
that's okay - I think a lot of the software I look at today is cool, too. But
is it useful to me? Nope.
I'm no student of business, but it does seem to me that historically an awful
lot of companies have been started by young people who saw a market or niche
that needed to be filled, and filled it. How hard would it be for a start-up
(or existing tech company) to get a couple of panels of 50-80 year olds
together and find out what _they'd_ find useful, and then produce it? You can
make the argument that 20-somethings have more disposable income, but I doubt
a couple dollar smartphone app or ten buck piece of desktop software is going
to break any senior citizen's budget.
~~~
johnjlocke
It sounds like there's actually a few untapped markets out there that no one
is even thinking about. That's a shame.
------
joejohnson
"[Packer]’s clearly onto something in the way the experience of continuously
solving seemingly insoluble technical problems can lead the technocracy to
dismiss the challenges of actual societies or, worse, decide they’re simply
above them."
This rings true for a number of issues in San Francisco. Let's underfund our
public transportation and make taxis inefficient and hard to find -- we'll let
the free market solve those problems! Corporate shuttles and a thousand taxi
hailing apps will make up the difference.
Except they don't. I can't take a corporate shuttle to buy groceries or go out
at night, and the cab situation in San Francisco is embarrassing. How do
people here think they're living in the future when they can't even run basic
infrastructure?
You can order food or hail a cab with your phone in any city. I only know of
one city where idiots who will tell you this is revolutionary.
~~~
rogerclark
i just looked at your comments on a hunch and i was right: most of your
comments have to do with shitting on san francisco. cool hobby
------
spullara
I think this is a by product of 20 somethings being the most sought after
group by advertisers combined with them being the most likely to try new
things without a lifetime of bias towards the status quo.
------
tyre
The best part of Silicon Valley is brilliant people solving hard problems. In
the beginning, there were a lot of talented, bright you people with not a lot
of business sense. And it showed in their draw towards 'sexy' problems. But,
as that space got incredibly crowded and, to a large degree, 'solved', people
moved on.
I am a 20-something and was drawn to Silicon Valley to work on payroll
specifically because I saw it as a sign that SV was 'growing up.' Not every
company is working on social-local-mobile-freemium-gaming, and that is
incredibly refreshing.
------
politician
Well, it's probably harder to meaningfully shift the way older consumers live
in general. Between regulations and routine, business has an increasingly
difficult time selling to us as we age. For all the dollars in pharma, grandma
still won't take her pills and grandpa won't get rid of that old beater. Etc.
~~~
doctorpangloss
There's an article on HN right now about setting up a MacBook for grandma. And
everyone talks about how great an iPad has been for the elderly.
I don't think they're stubborn, they're just different. I also don't think
they're cheap either, because an iPad (let alone a MacBook) is still a
consumer electronic luxury.
------
coldtea
A similar question I wanted to ask: "Who are all this skaters, hip hop singers
wannabees, surfers, brooming indie artists" and such BS that 99% of ads,
videos and startup media material seems to target to?
I've been all around the US (literally: the 48 states), and those are like 1%
of the youth population, if that.
------
DeusExMachina
I think that the assumption of the New Yorker that Airbnb is only for
twentysomethings is not correct (I can't speak about Uber).
I'm 33 years old and living in Europe. Between my passions there is dancing
tango. This actually involves a lot of traveling to international festivals
where to meet and dance different people. There are many of these events and
many dancers are really dedicated, traveling around a lot, sometimes almost
every weekend. In this situation it gets really helpful to travel on a budget,
even if there are not many people in their 20s in the community. As a result
Airbnb is getting the de facto choice for the community of the 30-40 years old
international traveling dancers.
------
ChikkaChiChi
What is more frustrating to me is that so much of the startup focus is in
Silicon Valley and ascertaining viability for these disruptive service is
wholly dependent on the SV set's adoption rate.
Some of these businesses should spend more time planning the logistical and
strategic side of rolling out satellites to other markets (maybe even as a
franchise model) to see if uptake rates change based on cost off living,
regional preference, different geographical factors, etc.
What plays in tech saavy SV, the NW, New York, and Austin might be different
than in Tampa, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, and Phoenix.
Does anyone agree?
------
jiggy2011
Today's 20 somethings are tomorrows 30 and 40 somethings. Get them hooked
young and you can milk them for a lifetime.
It's probably easier to persuade a 20 something to try something new. I know
middle aged people who choose smartphones by waiting for their kids to each
buy different ones and then choosing one of these for themselves.
------
ChuckMcM
Its useful for the non-tech press to point out that no, we're not only solving
problems for young people with more disposable income than they know what to
do with. It does suggest that there is a very good business to be had 10 - 15
years from now as these people mature and now _do_ need to do something with
that income but that is a different article :-)
One wave of things I'm looking for (and it's seems to be foreshadowed with
things like the maker movement) is spontaneous manufacturing. Places where you
need something built and a bunch of people, using tools in their garage or
workshop, contribute parts where a co-ordinator assembles into widgets.
------
eli_gottlieb
Speaking for myself, I can perceive a few problems with the tech industry: one
more (but not entirely) individual, one more (but not entirely) cultural, and
one more (but not entirely) legal/economic.
The cultural one is simply that Silicon Valley and the tech sector in general
currently constitute one of the last remaining vestiges of the upper-middle
class and the petite bourgeoisie in an otherwise recessionary and degrading
Western society. Others refer to us occasionally as the "Tech Sector Master
Race". Forgive the 4chan slang, but that _is_ how we come across sometimes: as
a little nerdy subculture that smugly walks through a world we don't quite
belong to, demanding coffee and consumer electronics and thinking about our
investment accounts while other people think about making rent. And the worse
the rest of society gets, the worse this effect will become. See below.
The individual one is that, frankly, I have too easy a time contenting myself
with my gadgetry to see wide-open markets, and when I do see an idea, I expect
the corporate behemoths to colonize it first. An undergrad here at Technion
once came and talked to me about starting a groceries-delivery service here in
Israel. I immediately thought of Stop&Shop's Peapod, before realizing we don't
have anything like that here. Then my next thought was, "What, people can't be
bothered to go to the market?" It's easy to overlook opportunities to solve
others' pain points just because _you personally_ don't have a lot of pain
points (which ties right back in to techies being so massively fortunate!).
The legal/economic one is that productizing technology has gotten _very hard_.
I'm always glad to see more hardware start-ups and such, but people often
hesitate to commit money to unknown companies. Then software is more and more
functionally impossible to sell in a shrink-wrapped box as a product (due to
piracy and upgrades), people hate advertisements, non-corporate users hate
paying subscription fees for software because they think they bought their
copy, and people are still demanding ever more quality for fixed or shrinking
prices. Lastly, technology has gotten less and less "do it yourself" and more
and more "black box", pushing all kinds of things underground. Overall, the
path from tinkering to a product to a sale to tinkering again has gotten
longer, and that's what drives the endless rounds of "social-mobile-local Big
Data cat-picture analytics apps". And of course, this also goes right back to
large parts of society being unable to afford innovative luxury goods produced
by the tech sector. A game console that costs $400 now instead of $200 ten
years ago wouldn't be that much of a problem if the cost of living had stayed
the same or if wages had doubled (before inflation, even). They haven't.
So until we find some ways to fix this stuff, Silicon Valley is going to be
stuck catering to the one audience who will consistently buy into Silicon
Valley, that being Silicon Valley.
~~~
precisioncoder
Minor nitpick. Video game consoles and games are equal price or cheaper than
old ones when adjusted for inflation. Here are a couple articles I found to
support that. [http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/706637/video-game-
infl...](http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/706637/video-game-inflation-
the-price-of-a-console-part-one/) [http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/an-
inconvenient-truth-...](http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/an-inconvenient-
truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time/)
~~~
eli_gottlieb
Wow, thanks for letting me know. I hadn't realized that.
(Though admittedly, that makes the financial outlook of games companies _even
worse_.)
~~~
precisioncoder
Yeah it's one of those things that is really counterintuitive, probably
because we tend to underestimate inflation. I thought the opposite as well
until I ran across an article a little while back.
------
speeder
My startup was made to solve problems of older people that has children...
But maybe, like the article theorises in the start, because the person that
had the idea was in that group himself (my associate, and CEO of the company,
had the idea to make apps for children after not finding enough apps for his
own children and hearing comments from his similarly-aged friends about the
same subject).
------
allenu
I would say yes, it is biased towards twentysomethings because 1) they have
disposable income and more easily part with it, and 2) they are more likely to
create a tech solution (and surrounding business) to a problem they are
familiar with. Disclosure: I'm in my 30s but had similar wide-eyed dreams in
my 20s of creating some big piece of tech that would net me millions.
------
samfisher83
I think software tends to favor the young. In general the biggest companies in
tech were founded by younger people.
Google - Founded by 20 somethings Apple - Founded by 20 something Facebook -
Founder by 20 something Amazon - Founded by 20 something
So they solve problems for a younger generation.
~~~
mhurron
The problem with this is they are not run by 20-somethings now. If they were
working on 20-something problems because they were 20-somethings, why haven't
they moved on?
Also, I wouldn't categorize Amazon as solving problems for a younger
generation.
~~~
allenu
A lot of the problems these companies cover are interesting to everyone.
Search is interesting to everyone, maintaining a social network is interesting
to everyone, buying stuff online is interesting to everyone.
Cab-sharing is not interesting to everyone. Staying in strangers' homes
instead of a hotel isn't interesting to everyone. Taking photos of your meals
and sharing it with friends is not interesting to everyone.
------
alanh
Apologies for the self-promotion, but at NoRedInk, we are funded, have
traction, and are hiring while improving the _status quo_ of grammar
education.
------
LordHumungous
Silicon Valley is interested in finding solution to problems that make money,
just like every other industry.
~~~
johnjlocke
Silicon Valley is more similar to Wall Street than it cares to admit.
------
acchow
twentysomethings are interested in the problems of twentysomethings.
~~~
Fomite
One thing that seems to be lost between the article and the comments - it's
not just twentysomethings. It's twentysomethings "with cash on hand".
That adds a degree of self-indulgence to the description. It's not just
twentysomethings solving the problems of people their age, tackling the
questions of their generation, but solving the problems of (at least
culturally) affluent, employed tech workers with disposable income.
------
_pius
Betteridge's Law of Headlines applies.
~~~
asveikau
To disprove this all somebody needs to do is write a headline:
Is Betteridge's Law of Headlines correct?
------
yarrel
s/problems/money/
------
wittysense
The hypercompetitive culture makes SV a series of silos. We may be working
workstation-to-workstation, but just as you drive along the interstate, it's a
series of anonymous silos of farmers loosely affiliated, if that.
And any shoplifting guide worth its weight will tell you that those farmers
are screwing you over in at least 3 different ways via strict affiliations
with government and taxation, price gouging the market, and transportation
costs, along with manipulative garned relationships with the
GroceryStoreCartel(tm), all while you fancy the philosophical scenario of
whether they're interested in your problems.
You as a driver should move along, or learn the road.
The only response to "Does some large group X care about me?" is Hanlon's
Razor.
------
andyl
Most new companies fail, but not all. Apple and Google were founded by twenty-
somethings, and in the early days, nobody was certain what they would become.
The key is to keep trying stuff, even ideas that might seem unusual.
One group that displays much 'irritating self-regard' are east-coast pundits
who write on subjects they don't understand.
------
snambi
good point. most of the startups are working on trivial problems faced by
20somethings.
~~~
outericky
Startups tend to try to solve problems they are familiar with. So 20something
founders, are likely working on something 20somethings face.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tech companies giving away free face masks to combat coronavirus - BethGagaShaggy
https://www.combatnerd.com/news/companies-giving-away-face-masks-free-charge/
======
e03179
I wouldn't mind getting one myself
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Incomprehensible job titles are an elitist affectation - happy-go-lucky
https://theconversation.com/calling-all-time-ninjas-lets-put-a-stop-to-ludicrous-job-titles-79544
======
pluma
> Yet a nationally representative study of 1,000 British adults, with which I
> assisted, found that 75% of British adults thought “scrum master” was a fake
> job title, or didn’t know for sure if it was real.
I think this bit misses the point. "Scrum master" is pretty descriptive and
explicit _if you are the least bit familiar with Scrum methodology_. Unlike
the other examples which are intentionally obscure and playful, this one is
only obscure if you're unfamiliar with the specific industry.
I'm fairly certain there are perfectly legitimate job titles in other
industries "75% of British adults" aren't familiar with. That's okay, they
don't have to be.
If it was "75% of British technical project managers", I would be far more
concerned. A job opening for a "Scrum master" likely isn't an entry level
position for someone with no prior knowledge of Scrum -- and if that career
path is interesting to you, you'll likely already know what Scrum is.
~~~
sho
To be fair, I'm in tech, have known actual "scrum masters", and still don't
think it's a real job title.
~~~
negativ0
yeah, i still dont understand, in my company we have 2 scrum masters, and the
only thing i can see they do is sending 2 emails a week and coding like
juniors.
~~~
mpfundstein
They shouldnt code at all and instead be busy with coaching your team and the
enterprise in practicing proper scrum
~~~
honestoHeminway
else they be never true scottsman.
------
bdcravens
Is it ironic that the author is _Sir_ Cary Cooper, who received knighthood at
a birthday celebration for the Queen? It's an honor, but with so many knights
running around, hasn't that title become a bit ludicrous itself?
~~~
chrisseaton
> who received knighthood at a birthday celebration for the Queen
The Birthday Honours aren't given at a birthday celebration for the Queen. You
make it sound like they're handed out at her birthday party!
The 'birthday' part of the name just means that they are the summer version of
the bi-annual honours ceremonies, the other being the new year. The Queen's
official birthday is a general set of official events held in the summer. It's
not even anywhere near her actual birthday.
------
Hasknewbie
I for one do like job adverts looking for a 'guru' or 'ninja'. They are a good
early indicator that the company is either immature enough to publish such
ads, or using a cynical ploy looking to attract younger/flexible recruits less
likely to make 'grown-up' demands.
------
aluhut
> So when a pet supplies company advertises for a “time ninja” instead of a
> human resources administrator or office clerk, we need to ask why.
Why not question "human resources" too? I wonder what came first. This term or
the way HR handles people as faceless commodities.
~~~
WalterBright
If there's a "Human Resources" department, shouldn't there be an "Inhuman
Resources" label instead of "IT"?
------
tvanantwerp
I am Director of IT at my workplace.
I don't actually direct anyone--I'm the only technical employee. I got the
title when my boss told me he was having business cards printed and wanted to
know what title I wanted. It was just the first thing that came to mind. Some
titles can be very descriptive, and others are just random noise.
------
dfan
My first job was doing programming / game design / writing / composing / audio
design at a startup computer game company in the 1990s. No one really had a
title. When we finally decided that we should really have business cards, I
got mine printed with the job title of Chaplain.
~~~
honestoHeminway
Oh, father be with us in our hour of need, for we are going gold. Please
forgive us our soon released Alpha, for we forgive our brethrens early Alphas
released at full price. Amen.
------
Negitivefrags
Can we stop with the self-aggrandizing CxO titles while we are at it?
I've had someone introduce themselves as a CTO of a company that has 4 people.
How many other technical officers are there for you to be the chief of them?
It sounds ridiculous.
~~~
matthewmacleod
I get what you mean, in that CxO titles sound silly. But I'm not sure what the
alternative is, really - particularly when you're talking about a startup
that's hopefully going to be growing a bit.
It seems when you want to talk about your team, you really want to say 'This
person does the business stuff, this person does the technical stuff, this
person does the marketing stuff, this person helps with the technical stuff…".
Something like CTO is a convenient shorthand for 'person in charge of
technical things'.
~~~
Negitivefrags
Technical Director is a better term. (In fact, it's the job title I use).
It says you are in charge of tech without implying anything about the size of
your company.
~~~
rjsw
It also makes it clear that you are a director of the company, a CxO might not
be a member of the board.
~~~
matthewmacleod
I would be wary of that one though; I've been 'technical director' in the past
without being 'director'.
------
slyall
Any industry will have weird sounding titles. The different is that in IT some
have only existed for a few years so they havn't had time to work their way
into general public culture. A quick scan of my local jobs boards finds the
following exotic titles:
* Gib stopper
* Manual Materials Handler- Sample Crushing
* Hammerhand
* Class 2 Civil Driver
* Shot Firer
* Kaiawhina
* Precaster
* Dogman
* Assistant Greenkeeper
* Concrete placer
* Estimator
~~~
pilsetnieks
What is your estimation of when the titles of Guru, Rockstar and Ninja will
work their way in popular culture, and the responsibilities will be well
understood at least within the industry?
------
WalterBright
In the 1970s, my first job was an electronics assembly technician. Going to my
first tech conference, I asked that the conference badge job title was
"Gnome".
Given the incredulous reaction of the badge maker, I was at least the first
he'd ever seen. It wasn't long before the rest of the staff at the company
became "Wizards" and "Gnomes" as well.
Now I just put "Nerd" as my job title, and nobody raises an eyebrow.
~~~
bdcravens
My title is "Director of Technology" in a small company but I tend to
introduce myself as "chief nerd" as I think that speaks better to what I
really do day-to-day.
------
empath75
Full-stack Engineer is a perfectly descriptive job title.
This is my favorite stupid job title, though:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shing)
~~~
spectre
Self proclaimed "Thought Leader" and "Digital Prophet" sounds rather
egomaniacal. I just assume anyone with titles like that is trying to sell
synergy and snake oil.
~~~
honestoHeminway
Cold-Fusion Acupuncturists & Proctologist
------
OliverJones
Bah. This is the English news org writing this. In the English-dominated age
of sailing ships, specialist sailors had all sorts of jargon-laden job
descriptions. So did weavers. The English thrived on high tech for centuries.
You'd think they'd embrace this kind of obscurity.
Just because some journo doesn't understand "scrum master" doesn't make it a
bad job title. (Whether scrum is a good way to do things is not a question
this journo raised.)
Now, let's talk about "Chief Experience Officer" and "Chief People Officer."
WTF? Title inflation, anybody?
In startups, the executives should aLL be "Chief Maintenance Officer" meaning
we'll clean the toilet when it needs it as well as raise money and convince
prospects to become customers.
------
lb1lf
Back before we were bought up by $Multinational_corp, my job title read
General Purpose Geek; after a couple of practical jokes in the office which
were attributed to me, my boss added 'and master of shenanigans' in the
employee database.
When we were being integrated in the company that bought us, some HR
apparatchik called me and asked whether geekery or shenanigans was my primary
role; compound titles didn't cut it.
They then realized based on my pay grade that I would be a senior engineer at
the very least, and my first business cards after the merger read 'Master of
advanced shenanigans'.
Then some sod spotted the title and adjusted it to the more corporate-sounding
advanced project engineer. Sigh.
------
motet_a
IMHO, even "developer" is a stupid job title which shoud be replaced by a more
descriptive one like "computer programmer" or "software engineer".
~~~
Agathos
Computer programmer is fine. Software engineer... I think the argument about
what qualifies you as a real engineer comes up every other day on HN.
~~~
cdegroot
I tend to stick with the (intent of the) law here. I'm not an engineer, not in
any jurisdiction I worked in.
------
k__
Recruiters also constantly write about how they are searching for "The best
...".
I mean, know many people who are better developers than me, so I'm certainly
not the best. I'm always thinking "Then why write me??"
Sometimes they are hiring for a global corp and I kinda can understand that
biggest players need the best people and also can pay the best people.
But when some recruiter comes and talks about how he searches the best talent
for a job in some no-name company, I can't help but chuckle.
I worked for a few startups and the hiring managers always said two things "I
need good people, but there aren't any on the marked!" and "I interviewed
someone who was really great, but too expensive."
------
mirekrusin
...patiently waiting for a job title with emoji.
~~~
dredmorbius
Would you prefer being chief :smile: officer, chief :frown: officer, or chief
of :tears: ?
~~~
Lanthanide
I'll take Chief :eggplant: Officer.
(Previously known as Chief Restructuring Officer)
------
martimarkov
I find it quite the offensive take on tech jobs.
Arguing that "scrum master" should have a more general name is one of the
stupidest things I've read. It's based on a methodology and has a specific
meaning. Asking 1000 random people what pi is might result in them defining
the food so we might as well change the name of either one. If you don't know
what scrum master is you should not be applying for it anyway.
There is no problem with tech job titles. If anything it's a solution. If you
don't want to work for a company as a ninja then the environment is probably
not the right fit.
------
dredmorbius
Oddly enough, a few things come into play:
1\. It's hard to describe what you do, to someone who doesn't understand what
you do.
2\. This isn't a new problem.
3\. There are actually _fewer_ official U.S. Census occupation codes today
(545 as of the 2000 census) than in 1920 (587). Much of _that_ explosion had
to do with railroads.
I did some research on this a few years back.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3832wx/occupat...](https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3832wx/occupation_classifications_growth_and_change_over/)
The Iron Horse gave us such classifications as:
* Baggagemen and freight agents
* Motormen
* Switchmen, flagmen, and yardmen
* Express, post, telegraph, and telephone, selected occupations
* Express messengers
* Inspectors
Or we could turn, as _The Conversation_ hails from Britain, to the UK Census
classifications of 1851, 1861, and 1871, for: joiner, beermaker, gamekeeper
(this sounds suspiciously SV, probably growth-hacking on the side), worsted
manufacturer (but no "bested manufacturer"), hose manufacturer ("laying
pipe..."), hawker, huckster, jockey, straw hat and bonnet maker (don't confuse
your boots and bonnets), protestant dissenting minister, ropermaker (in
cahoots with the hoseist, we surmise), staymaker (someone who stickifies the
gamekeepers gamified websites, obviously), currier (but no ives), wine and
spirit merchant (good, not evil, spirts, one hopes), boilermaker, Chelsea
pensioner, commercial traveller (ads delivery and reach?), and weaver not
otherwise described.
And, ah, yes, to the pedants, I'm aware of the original contexts of these
descriptions.
The point is that, _especially_ at times of dynamic change and specialisation,
new distinctions become important.
Overblown? In cases, yes. The value of jobs titles is both for _internal_ and
_external_ communications and comparison, as with most protocols.
"Astro" Teller, by the way, is the grandson of a gentleman who's known for a
few particularly bright points in mid-20th century history, of which there's
some residual glow.
Speaking of which, my favourite jobs title remains that from the 1880 U.S.
Census classification, #309, "Gentleman".
------
Jugurtha
> _Plonking the word ‘guru’ or ‘rockstar’ into a job description just confuses
> things, writes Sir Cary Cooper._
If that _Sir_ doesn't see the irony in that sentence..
------
muninn_
Yeah I cringe at a lot of the job titles I've been seeing, everything from
"chief innovation officer or chief resiliency officer" to "big data
consultant" (yes I know what this is I just don't like the buzzword) and it
drives me kinda batty. On the other hand, I've been seeing a couple of
companies employ people in "apprentice" and "journeyman" titles positions, and
I like those.
------
arethuza
My wife was an _advocate 's devil_ while training to go to the bar - the
advocates that trained her being her _devil masters_.
So who has silly titles?
~~~
watwut
Your wife is clear winner. I kind of like those titles.
------
mopoke
Maybe, just maybe, it's a reaction to all that's wrong with job titles -
[https://stackstreet.com/4-problems-with-job-
titles/](https://stackstreet.com/4-problems-with-job-titles/)
------
TazeTSchnitzel
If I am ever employed to manage a data centre, I want to be Cloud Master.
------
soneca
All of this discussion could be just a rant on a HN comment and that's it. Not
worth a serious article in my opinion.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google this: - oliverdamian
sqrt(cos(x))<i>cos(300x)+sqrt(abs(x))-0.7)</i>(4-x*x)^0.01, sqrt(6-x^2), -sqrt(6-x^2) from -4.5 to 4.5
======
calciphus
[http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sqrt(cos(x))cos(300x)%2Bsqrt(abs(x))-0....](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sqrt\(cos\(x\)\)cos\(300x\)%2Bsqrt\(abs\(x\)\)-0.7\)\(4-x*x\)%5E0.01%2C+sqrt\(6-x%5E2\)%2C+-sqrt\(6-x%5E2\)+from+-4.5+to+4.5+)
~~~
rhengles
"Was that so hard?"
_YES_
------
staunch
Wolfram Alpha:
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt%28cos%28x%29%29cos...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt%28cos%28x%29%29cos%28300x%29%2Bsqrt%28abs%28x%29%29-0.7%29%284-x*x%29%5E0.01%2C+sqrt%286-x%5E2%29%2C+-sqrt%286-x%5E2%29+from+-4.5+to+4.5)
------
kristianp
I feel like I've just been rick-rolled. Don't google it unless you're a big
valentine's day fan.
------
farlington
Wolfram Alpha's is pretty too:
[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%09sqrt%28cos%28x%29%29...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%09sqrt%28cos%28x%29%29cos%28300x%29%2Bsqrt%28abs%28x%29%29-0.7%29%284-x*x%29%5E0.01%2C+sqrt%286-x%5E2%29%2C+-sqrt%286-x%5E2%29+from+-4.5+to+4.5)
------
sidcool
Today I learned, Hacker News dislikes short links. Take that bit.ly, goo.gl,
t.co etc...
------
andre
Cute.
------
derleth
It does not match any documents.
~~~
sidcool
Don't use IE
~~~
derleth
I'm using Firefox.
------
sidcool
Clickable <http://bit.ly/xFxCqs>
~~~
dazbradbury
What's wrong with having the title link to:
[http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sqrt(cos(x))cos(300x)%2Bsqr...](http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sqrt\(cos\(x\)\)cos\(300x\)%2Bsqrt\(abs\(x\)\)-0.7\)\(4-x*x\)%5E0.01,+sqrt\(6-x%5E2\),+-sqrt\(6-x%5E2\)+from+-4.5+to+4.5)
~~~
sidcool
And what's wrong with a short link, sir?
~~~
hcho
How would I know where it goes? A porn site? Phishing site?
~~~
sidcool
Ah, I thought there was an undeclared pledge of ethics here at HN. Never mind.
~~~
cheald
There is, but doesn't mean that people can't abuse it.
Shorteners are frowned upon because they can be used to hide nastyware, and
aren't needed; HN visually truncates links that are super long anyhow.
~~~
sidcool
Point noted amicably.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Can Canonical count users without uniquely identifying them? - alonswartz
http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/08/can-we-count-users-without-uniquely.html
======
macemoneta
Model numbers? Isn't that why UUIDs were created? Unique identifier, and
anonymous:
<https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/UUID>
~~~
btn
"The customer didn't really want to use a unique identifier though, because
though it was anonymous, the customer wanted to _count_ computers, but unique
identifiers are for _tracking_ (following a user over time)."
~~~
macemoneta
That seems to be a misunderstanding of the nature of a UUID. Simply replacing
the model with the UUID provides no tracking in this use case, as it's a
single purpose reference.
~~~
DEinspanjer
I can't figure out what exactly you are proposing here..
If you propose that they generate a new UUID on every ping the OS makes, then
you'd be able to tell how many unique installations are active on any given
day, but you wouldn't know how long they had been active, nor would you know
what model of computer they were, nor would you be able to know how many were
active for a longer time range such as a week or a month.
~~~
macemoneta
Fedora, for example, already does this with UUIDs and the smolt project. A
UUID is generated on installation and used for the 'ping'. The user opts-in at
first boot, and the software runs periodically:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolt_(Linux)>
The data is aggregated for reporting:
<http://www.smolts.org/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
$100M/Year to Shut Down: The Rise and Fall of CountryOutfitter.com - patwalls
https://www.starterstory.com/stories/country-outfitter
======
anoncoward111
This is actually an excellent anecdotal account of how you can go from wage
laborer to partner of a 9 million dollar company, and then watch the business
explode because FB decided to put the Berlin Wall between you and your
millions of fans.
A cautionary tale but also one of excitement and success! Pretty interesting
to me. I think I wouldn't quit my day job :)
------
fred_is_fred
After a "life-changing partial exit for the founding team" I'd never work
again. -- And that's probably why it will never happen to me in the first
place.
------
timavr
This is very honest revenue.
~~~
jmbo09
thank you! we appreciate the time you took to read it
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Twitter Account Ownership Issue? - mknappen
A coworker just set up a Twitter account and, apparently, inadvertently took over another person's active account. I haven't been able to recreate the problem using my own account. Twitter dev support has "encountered an unexpected error" both times I attempted to post this issue. Has anyone else out there seen this?
======
3825
>inadvertently took over another person's active account
Care to elaborate? Did the other person and your coworker have access to the
email address used when registering the twitter account? Had the previous user
validated his email address?
~~~
mknappen
My coworker insists the email address was never validated and no one else ever
logged in from this email address. After registering, the account came up with
nearly 100 following and followers, none known by my coworker. The standard
new user demo never happened. My coworker then changed the user name, and user
profile information as a precaution. The actual owner of the account would
likely now be able to login or re-register with their user name, but their
followers would be gone.
~~~
3825
It is the other guy's fault for not verifying their email address. If I
register with [email protected] email address, I would assume someone
with that email handle can claim my twitter account.
~~~
mknappen
How strange.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Help deciding between Angular and React - Gootch
We have a product that is currently using Ionic 3, and we are deciding what to do since we are moving away from native apps in favor of a full web based experience. It is a small app with a very limited number of pages.. but heavily used by end users.<p>We are taking this opportunity to do a major UI redesign that will look identical on all devices -- no requirement for an app that looks like a native app.<p>Our current dev team is comfortable with Angular, since our current app uses Angular 5 -- so we are leaning towards sticking with what we know. That said, I would love some thoughtful advice from this community to help me navigate from our current state of our product to the next.<p>A couple of specific questions I would like answers to:<p>Is the community size difference between Angular and React of concern?<p>We have a small team right now, and plan to scale up over the next year... is hiring new developers going to be a lot more challenging if our solution is in Angular?<p>And if there is anything else I should be considering, anything is appreciated. Thanks HN!
======
shams93
If you're on ionic you might want to look at stencil js
~~~
Gootch
We don't see the need at the moment to use any ionic components... So the
ionic 4 stuff won't be needed, but regardless of whether we use stencil to
build our components or not, I was hoping to find some clarity on whether the
community size would be an issue as our product matures, and also whether
talented developers would avoid opportunities to join our team if Angular was
our framework instead of React.
The adoption rate of Angular vs React is a bit concerning to me.. is that a
real concern?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An Unconscious Patient with a DNR Tattoo - djrogers
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1713344
======
mrguyorama
Wow, half way through I was specifically thinking to myself how this could
have been a drunken mistake, and the report directly addressed that! I'm also
happy that they were able to find the official documentation of the patient
and resolve the situation.
I don't think hospitals should be lenient with DNR requests. Choosing to let
yourself pass is a big choice, and having a single well defined path to make
that clear is beneficial. It's not incredibly difficult to get a DNR, though
possibly out of reach of somebody who is incredibly impoverished
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Owl.js – Backbone-like library without jQuery and Underscore dependency - omegascrop
https://github.com/owljsorg/owljs
======
anilgulecha
Is there a TODOmvc or something built with this? It would give a good
comparison to Backbone.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Any ideas for mobile coupon validation? - gofl1
Hey everyone, I am working on designing an app that involves mobile coupons. Can anyone offer suggestions for how a coupon could be redeemed and tracked at retailers that don't have barcode scanners in place, aside from providing external hardware? Is POS integration feasible. Really appreciate the help.
======
sunflowerjane
<http://www.promodigg.com>, refer to the FAQ of this site, you could find how
to redeem a coupon.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why I would bet against Bitcoin - elephant_burger
https://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2017/12/16/why-i-would-bet-against-bitcoin/#1c96eeb77fe8
======
informatimago
It's really funny how "serious" people can be dumb when the write about
bitcoin... (and in general, the big lesson of the Internet, is that it allows
everybody to realize how dumb and full of air are all the "experts" and
"responsible" "leaders" are...).
Here, this Ozimek correctly evaluates that when everybody will be using BTC
instead of USD, it will be worth "$871,056". But then he writes: "To get to
these levels would completely undermine it's (sic) usefulness as s (sic)
currency." Either we take the two typoes as meaningful indicator of his stress
level when he wrote this sentence, and we will deduce that he's a filthy liar,
who understands the bitcoin, but is spreading FUD, or we will ignore them, and
conclude that he has only read the one paragraph executive summary and he
doesn't know that the BTC has subdivisions, and that at that stage, the
satoshi will be valued $0.00871056, ie. a little less than 1¢.
Then he continues with more bullshit on page 2, assuming that transitory USD
vs. BTC rate change will go on eternally. But already now, the volatility of
BTCUSD is similar to the volatility of the other currencies.
[http://www.cboe.com/products/vix-index-
volatility/volatility...](http://www.cboe.com/products/vix-index-
volatility/volatility-on-currencies)
[https://bitvol.info](https://bitvol.info)
It doesn't matter how fast people convert to BTC. The point is that eventually
Satoshis and µBTC will be used by everybody.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Ctrl/Shift with same hand or opposite? - cammil
I have been contemplating the techniques in efficient typing. In particular, whether it is more efficient to press a Ctrl or Shift key with the same hand that you press a number or letter, or with the opposite one.<p>Have you any thoughts on this?
======
27182818284
Change caps lock to control. It will be awkward for a day and then you'll
probably love it. Especially if you are using OS X or *nix where you are doing
a lot of ctrl+d, ctrl+e, ctrl+a, ctrl+k, etc.
------
yan
All left hand, and my Caps Lock is mapped to Ctrl. Life-changing.
~~~
cammil
I'm trying this out currently. Only problem seems to be when I need to use
Ctrl with Alt. Then the original control seems to be more natural.
Do you have an opinion on using the right shift/control?
~~~
yan
I don't use the right modifier keys out of habit. However, using Ctrl+Alt with
Caps Lock still feels natural (I press alt with my thumb and caps lock with my
ring finger, feels very natural). Also, I leave Ctrl still mapped to Ctrl so
effectively I have two Ctrls on the left side and use whichever is more
convenient. (Still tends to be Caps Lock in almost all situations)
------
pzxc
Same hand. Each hand should work independently, so the other hand can already
be moving to the next key(s).
~~~
cammil
Is there any reason you believe this to be most efficient?
The downside to using the same hand is that it is slower for that hand to
complete the depressions as it is more awkward.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Huawei P30 Pro Review – Better Than P20 Pro but No Mate of Mine - PrimeVinister
https://elitegamer.com/2019/04/04/huawei-p30-pro-review-better-than-p20-pro-but-no-mate-of-mine/
======
PrimeVinister
Huawei’s P-Series unapologetically aims to be a camera with a decent phone
attached. Borrowing from the Mate 20 Pro made sense in this respect. The
result is a better all-around experience than P20 Pro but without the same
impact.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
HSBC IT staff at risk as bank announces 30,000 job cuts - Netadmin
http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/careers/3294543/hsbc-it-staff-at-risk-as-bank-announces-30000-job-cuts/
======
wccrawford
Noting that the IT staff might get cut seems like a desperate attempt to make
the news relevant to tech sites.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Automatically generating a concept index for freeform notes - rsaarelm
http://jsomers.net/blog/semantic-notes
======
samstokes
Worth a read for the vector maths interpretation:
_I could calculate the vectors for all of my notes and use something like the
k-means algorithm to find semantically-related clusters of notes._
If you're familiar with information retrieval techniques, there's probably
nothing new here, but eye-opening if you're rusty like me.
~~~
thomas11
Look up Latent Semantic Indexing (LSI) on how to group related terms to
concepts.
------
chime
This is very similar to something I did few years ago with 6-7 years of my
blog entries. I wrote a script that generates timeline-based tag-clouds from
plain-text: <http://chir.ag/projects/tagline/> and here's an example:
<http://chir.ag/projects/preztags/>
The basic algorithm is nearly the same and it does use stemming (though not
synonyms, just related spelling). It takes an XML input file and spits out an
HTML file with the required JS embedded.
~~~
LiveTheDream
The presidential speech example is really interesting. Do you have that
cleaned-up dataset?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Would you rather use: QBasic + worlds best IDE or (favorite language) + Notepad - joeyespo
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/01/its-the-ide-dummy.html
======
marssaxman
I could hardly disagree more. Surplus complexity is a cognitive tax. I want to
use the simplest tools which get the job done so that I can focus my attention
on the problem, and not on the machinery I am using to solve the problem.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Be notified on new open source releases - scopsy
https://releasly.co
======
lozzo
please correct this typo: "Releasly is a tool for open source lovers like our-
self."
... like ourselves.
Good luck, but (in my opinion) even the most dynamic open sources don't change
rapidly enough to justify your tool.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Beta invites for lean startup http://qrcardmaker.com - kovlex
Looking for beta testers/early adopters for a new service called <i>http://qrcardmaker.com</i>.<p>Practicing the lean startup methodology by Eric Ries. Trying to build measure and learn how users interact with the app. If you'd like to use the service for free and to help me out, grab a beta invite here:<p><i>http://qrcardmaker.com/beta</i>
======
kovlex
Link for beta invites: <http://qrcardmaker.com/beta>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My startup pivot idea. Comments? - fezzl
Hi, I recently posted a thread to gather pivot ideas for my startup (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1734466). I got many ideas, and I thank HN for being so helpful.<p>Given our less-than-satisfactory traction, we would be willing to try a rather major pivot. Do give your feedback on this idea:<p>1) Imagine an Addthis/ShareThis button, made specifically for ecommerce. Just a sharing button on your store/product pages.<p>2) Anytime a visitor shares to Facebook/Twitter and that share results in new visitors/leads coming in, the sharer gets a discount coupon as an incentive.<p>3) Alternatively, the sharer gets a (bigger) discount coupon only for sales made by their friends, not merely visits.<p>4) For either scenario, the technology provider gets a cut.<p>Would you want to use a system like that, say, if you are a retailer?
======
dminor
The problem with competing with AddThis and ShareThis is that they're dirt
simple to slap on a page and free (not to mention they target more than just
Facebook). The advantage you have is that their target is sharing web pages
and your target is sharing products - so make your widget dirt simple, free,
and very good at sharing products. Then add things like discounts and
analytics to a premium plan.
------
minalecs
Usually this is a problem, of what can you do for them more than what can they
do for you. Your biggest issue as you pointed out is adoption by retailers,
and if really they have a problem with giving out coupons.
------
Shooter
There are already several companies and scripts that do exactly this,
especially in the 'IM' space.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Sake Used to Be Made with the Spit of Japanese Virgins - tosh
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/vvkz8a/why-sake-used-to-be-made-with-the-spit-of-japanese-virgins
======
indescions_2018
Wonderful scene in Makoto Shinkai's "Your Name" anime of the Kuchikamizake
ritual!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Parser Combinator library for C - joubert
https://github.com/orangeduck/mpc
======
enqk
Another is Hammer,
[https://github.com/UpstandingHackers/hammer](https://github.com/UpstandingHackers/hammer)
------
0xCMP
This is being used from another thing posted here about making your own lisp:
[http://www.buildyourownlisp.com/](http://www.buildyourownlisp.com/)
Pretty nice and simple. I'm on Chapter 8 of 16.
~~~
gshrikant
I think both the library and the book are written by the same author [1].
[1] [http://theorangeduck.com/page/you-could-have-invented-
parser...](http://theorangeduck.com/page/you-could-have-invented-parser-
combinators)
------
poseid
nice!
------
anon5_
What's the difference between this and flex/yacc?
~~~
revelation
From the readme, a workflow that doesn't make you want to kill yourself.
Also no generated code that requires extra build steps and instantly breaks
platform compatibility. That said, inline grammar definition might not be for
everyone.
~~~
gopowerranger
Hmm. So for people who don't know how to use Unix/flex/yacc?
This is just reinventing an existing wheel.
~~~
MichaelMoser123
In yacc the generator will tell you about shift reduce conflicts. Once you
have debugged the grammar the parser is likely to work. With parser
combinators you have no such assurance - you don't know if your grammar has
loops, the parser might get stuck easily while parsing. However for a simple
and regular input language like sexpr everything is fine.
~~~
sklogic
In recursive descent you simply do not have any shift/reduce conflicts.
~~~
MichaelMoser123
you can have left recursion, or implicit left recursion in your recursive
descent grammar, if you have then the parser gets stuck while parsing a clause
that contains left recursion.
~~~
sklogic
Firstly, this have nothing to do with shift/reduce. Secondly, you can safely
handle left-recursive grammars in Packrat (which, in turn, can be implemented
with combinators).
~~~
MichaelMoser123
I didn't say that left recursion has anything to do with shift reduce
conflicts. Please read again.
~~~
sklogic
I see, yes, you mentioned loops earlier. Anyway, it is not a problem for
combinator-based parsing, just use Packrat with a left-recursive extension [1]
[1]
[http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007002_packrat.pdf](http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007002_packrat.pdf)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Here be dragons: the same 3D scene implemented with 10 different 3D APIs - adamnemecek
https://github.com/kosua20/herebedragons
======
pierrec
This is a really useful codebase to compare what the code looks like for
different APIs and the tooling around each (not so much for directly comparing
the graphics, which should go without saying, but a lot of people seem to be
missing the point here...)
It would be interesting to add an emscripten version, ie. slight modifications
to the original C++/OpenGL code to make it compile with emscripten and run in
the browser. After some fooling around I got that to work, however nothing
shows up because the shaders need to be rewritten for WebGL. Looks like this
was already done for the JS/WebGL version, but the shaders are less fancy and
clearly don't map 1-to-1 to those in the C++/OpenGL version, so the code will
need to be modified a bit either way.
~~~
greggman
If you target WebGL2 you can likely do it without hand modifying the shaders.
In a small test I did I just patched the emscripten library_gl.js to do a very
simple search and replace of the version string of shaders and stuff just
worked.
code: [https://github.com/greggman/doodles/tree/master/glfw-
imgui](https://github.com/greggman/doodles/tree/master/glfw-imgui)
demo: [https://greggman.github.io/doodles/glfw-imgui/out/glfw-
imgui...](https://greggman.github.io/doodles/glfw-imgui/out/glfw-imgui.html)
You do have to decide if you want to restructure you code to be event based or
if you want it leave it as is and set emscripten to generate really slow code
for your main loop
[https://kripken.github.io/emscripten-
site/docs/porting/emter...](https://kripken.github.io/emscripten-
site/docs/porting/emterpreter.html#emterpreter-async-run-synchronous-code)
~~~
fla
very cool to see ImGui used in webgl!
~~~
greggman
I think ImGui is amazing but just be aware it's non-English hostile (arabic?
thai?).
It can display other languages but uses a static font glpyh texture instead of
using a font cache (there are too many characters to use a static texture).
It can't take input from an IME so no CJK input or other IME languages.
------
Mikeb85
Very interesting. What's striking is how much better the OpenGL version looks
than everything else. Not sure if it's because that was the reference version
or if some of the other APIs require more work or the dev is simply unfamiliar
with them. The Cycles renderer creates some really cool looking materials on
the dragon, but the terrain doesn't look great.
The Metal version in particular looks terrible, but then again low level APIs
like Metal, Vulkan and whatever subset of Direct X are all meant for vendors,
not individual developers.
~~~
santaclaus
> the terrain
The OpenGL version looks really aggressively bump mapped. The Cycle's version
doesn't appear to have any bump mapping enabled.
Edit: The depth of field in the Cycle's version also looks a bit weird, and
blurs away most of the terrain's detail.
~~~
jcl
The OpenGL version is using parallax mapping, where the pixels of the flat
plane are rendered by ray-marching into a depth map:
[https://github.com/kosua20/GL_Template/blob/3de4e116cdd24df3...](https://github.com/kosua20/GL_Template/blob/3de4e116cdd24df300fda42326a7a4e431f7f861/ressources/shaders/plane.frag)
The cycles version, on the other hand, is actually using the depth map to
displace a high-res mesh -- a more general technique that should yield results
as good or better than parallax mapping. I'd chalk up any perceived
differences to lighting and material parameters.
------
ars
I someone has time, could you record each one of these, splice the videos
together and upload it, so we can compare them, without actually installing
each one?
~~~
rocky1138
There are screenshots in each of the directories in the project.
~~~
samstave
Laziness squared... got it.
(lazy they didnt have a gallery already ready... lazy that (we) the readers
dont ant to click through to each pic..
~~~
cakedoggie
Some people went and created the same in multiple different
languages/environments. Not sure you should be throwing around the word lazy.
------
sipos
The Vulkan version will really add a lot I think. I would guess most people
are most interested in an OpenGL to Vulkan comparison. Similarly (possibly
more interesting to people, I don't know?) the DirectX version.
Nice comparison.
~~~
Mikeb85
Will it? Vulkan is meant as a low-level version of OpenGL for vendors who want
to optimise their engines and have more control over draw calls and whatnot.
Does it actually add any features that will be noticeable in a small, static
scene?
~~~
munchbunny
The difference between a moving and a static scene is surprisingly small: in
one case you render a slightly different scene every frame, and in the other
you re-render the same scene every frame. But the pipeline is set up the same,
with the same shaders, the same rendering passes, etc.
So, in practice, if they are noticeably different in the dynamic case, you'll
see those differences in the "as if it were dynamic" case, which is most
graphics demos of this sort.
------
eponeponepon
Neat. Always interesting to be reminded how far the capabilities have come in
so short a time. The PS2 really wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme
of things.
Would be intriguing to see how far older architectures like ps2dev can be
pushed on modern hardware.
~~~
amiga-workbench
Or even how far the PS2 could be pushed with modern software. Just look at the
C64 demoscene, that machine is doing things it's designers could never have
hoped for.
------
dmitrygr
I am not an expert in some of these, but I _CAN_ tell you that both GBA and DS
can do much better than the author has done here.
~~~
awirth
The GBA could definitely do a real 3D engine but it wouldn't look very good at
the low resolution anyway. I remember a demo from back in the day of a Quake-
like 3D engine on the GBA but it really didn't look good.
For the DS, note that he seems to be targeting the original DS (e.g. not DSi
OR 3DS). I remember there being some slightly better stuff but not
significantly better than what he made.
~~~
DSMan195276
I just ran the DS version on my DS lite, it looks pretty good - definitely
comparable to games on the system, and the models seems more detailed then
most of what you see on the system. The screenshots just make it look horrible
because it's a fairly low-res screen, when you blow it up that big it looks a
lot worse then you'd expect. The monkey shadow is definitely iffy looking, but
I don't think any games ever did 3D shadows that detailed - there's probably a
reason for that. It is worth keeping in mind that the original DS is weak
(especial 3D wise), but it's not really _that_ bad considering the low
resolution it has to render for. That low resolution is the main reason why it
looks so bad in the screenshot though.
The GBA version also looks pretty good on my DS lite (compared to games on the
system). You can't rotate the camera though, so the dragon doesn't rotate. The
monkey-head rotates on it's own though and looks pretty good. You're right
that there are a few games that do 3D on the GBA, but I can't imagine it's fun
coding wise since it the hardware support is basically zero in that regard.
But there are some weird ones out there - Banjo Pilot comes to mind, which is
a weird mode-7 3Dish flying game. Not exactly a great game, but pretty cool to
see. Even with that game though, they have to sacrifice basically all terrain
to be able to render the other characters at a decent speed IIRC, so the
entire game is just flat.
And if you want to get really obscure, there is Faceball 2000 on the GB, which
is a "FPS" and is 3D (And runs at like 15 FPS IIRC). There's no way you could
render this scene on it though besides just pre-rendered sprites like was done
with the GBA.
------
gtm1260
Definitely looks helpful as someone starting to get into Graphics Programming,
but I can't wait for the Vulkan version!
------
osmala
A nice project, but I didn't find the license for the source code. As without
one no-one can really legally use parts of it for anything that can become
serious.
Of course it might be that I have missed it or it is hidden somewhere. I hope
it really exists somewhere in the repository, but I didn't find it. I might be
too tired to find it and someone else has better luck.
~~~
chairmanwow
After a quick search, there is no license file in this project. Whether that
was done intentionally or unintentionally has yet to be determined.
~~~
dark_ph0enix
It's worth noting that the author just added a license (MIT) to the repo.
------
madez
I would be interested in seeing a version of this, where a pixel-identical
scene is created using different toolkits.
------
mastazi
Why is one of the examples called "Unity"? Doesn't Unity just use the lower
level rendering APIs or am I missing something?[1][2][3]
[1]
[https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UsingDX11GL3Features.html](https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UsingDX11GL3Features.html)
[2] [https://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/09/29/introducing-the-
vulkan-...](https://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/09/29/introducing-the-vulkan-
renderer-preview/)
[3] [https://blogs.unity3d.com/2015/02/19/unity-4-6-3-metal-
rende...](https://blogs.unity3d.com/2015/02/19/unity-4-6-3-metal-rendering-
support-and-update-of-il2cpp-for-ios/)
~~~
tomjakubowski
WebGL is ultimately translated into OpenGL calls. OpenGL calls are ultimately
translated into bytes sent over the bus to the graphics card. It takes a lot
of level descending before you reach the ground floor :-)
Unity is there, I imagine, because it's interesting to see how it translates
code that expresses high level concepts like "meshes" and "materials" into
code for to the backend, compared to the hand-written OpenGL or DX or Metal or
whatever calls.
------
neogodless
How do I view them? Maybe it's because I'm on mobile, but I'm having trouble
navigating to the actual images.
Edit: ok if I understand correctly, you need to visit the linked web site,
visit each linked repo, and pull each one down? Could you provide a web page
with previews, or would the resolution lose all visual differences?
~~~
StavrosK
I just clicked on each directory, the images are linked to the READMEs.
------
lunchladydoris
If you just want to check out a couple static images, check out the author's
site [0].
I must be getting into my nostalgic period - I love the GBA version.
[0]: [http://simonrodriguez.fr/dragon/](http://simonrodriguez.fr/dragon/)
------
nickelbackfan
It would have been cool if there was a single page with a screenshot of each
version to compare
------
vitoralmeida
How about a pico-8 version?
~~~
slazaro
It seems it's in the works:
[http://simonrodriguez.fr/dragon/](http://simonrodriguez.fr/dragon/)
------
Fox8
Would love to see how Glide stands up against this.
~~~
andybak
No POVRay?
------
ocdtrekkie
When I was in school, I had an assignment to make the same super simple scene
in OpenGL and DirectX.
That was when I learned I didn't want to be in a career field that would have
me using DirectX.
~~~
madez
Would you mind explaining in more detail why you didn't like using DirectX?
When I was reading up for some games if they would get an OpenGL version, I
was reading more than once that OpenGL were a mess.
~~~
ocdtrekkie
It was a really simple project, like a couple of colored rotating triangles. I
think it was like... maybe 10 short lines of code for OpenGL, and over 50 to
do it with DirectX.
Of course, I can't speak for how hairy OpenGL might get at doing more advanced
features, and of course, in a lot of cases games are built on established game
engines which do most of the DirectX and/or OpenGL coding for them.
~~~
exDM69
You've hit the nerve there.
OpenGL has so much implicit state and "defaults" set for you that you can get
a "hello world" -style app done really quickly, but then it all falls apart.
And if I'm guessing correctly, you probably used legacy, fixed function OpenGL
(ie. no shaders) with immediate mode rendering (glBegin/glEnd). Because you
can't do anything in 10 lines with modern OpenGL.
As soon as you start doing something practical, you start fighting OpenGL all
the time. It's a badly designed, very error prone API that requires much more
developer effort than any of the competing APIs.
If you apply best practices to OpenGL code (don't rely on global, implicit
state, use shaders/buffers/etc) , it's about on par with the "lower level"
APIs.
My OpenGL boilerplate code and my Vulkan boilerplate code have about the same
number of lines of code in them while they do about the same things (create
rendertarget, framebuffer, clear the screen, draw some text, draw a triangle,
blit to screen, measure performance counters). OpenGL is a bit less by a small
margin, but the difference is only in the verbosity of Vulkan code (ie. you
have to explicitly type every single pipeline state, even if it doesn't
matter, e.g. depth test mode when depth test is disabled).
In my opinion the bottom line is this: Vulkan is verbose but OpenGL is
complex. I'll take verbosity over hidden complexity any time.
------
spyder
HTTP ERROR 500
~~~
philbarr
You've got something wrong with your server...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Announcing hubot integration for Kandan - sgrove
http://cloudfuji.com/blog/2012/05/11/hubot_stops_by_for_tea.html
======
tadruj
hubot now counts as our official pet and as our new company feed provider. I'd
wish for Stripe integration, so the gong plays every time we earn money. Great
work with hubot on Kandan.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Silicon Valley calls us unicorns - nuromancer
http://unicornspeakeasy.net/
======
jff
Is there a secret handshake too?
~~~
Skywing
Yes, it's mentioned in the linked page.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Is there any way to avoid setting a Signal pin? - hedora
Signal has stopped letting iOS or Android users into the app unless they set up a pin and turn on the new backup / account recovery features.<p>Is there any way to opt-out? I don’t see an option in the app. At the very least, I’d like to access my old messages.
======
throwaway12375
Yes...basically, switch on aeroplane mode, then enter the app. You’ll bypass
the PIN screen. Enter a conversation, then switch off aeroplane mode. Entering
and exiting the app will no longer force you to set a PIN...unless you leave
the app while on the conversation list screen.
While you can just repeat the steps above if that happens, to avoid the
annoyance, always leave the app in a conversation.
Note: I’ve only tested this on iOS. Hopefully it also works on Android...
~~~
Legogris
Maybe they pushed another update; does not work for me on iOS.
~~~
hanche
After turning on airplane mode, quit Signal by swiping it up in the app
chooser (that you get by swiping up from the bottom of the screen), then
launch Signal again. Now turn airplane mode off.
------
djeiasbsbo
Yes... just don't set it. I do have the annoying reminder but the app works
anyway. I have restored from a previous Signal backup, maybe that matters.
~~~
hedora
It seems like I can only open the app if I get a message and tap the
notification.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
AskHN: Help me raise funds for my first Windows Phone for WP development - sygeek
https://www.wepay.com/donate/181573
======
MikeW
I don't know why he needs $1000 either. I bought a cheap older unlocked WP7
device for under $250 just by keeping an eye out for bargains.
Contact your local MS rep. I nearly every market, the MS evangelism people
have devices for people to test on.
~~~
sygeek
Oh, $1000, was by default. Yup, I asked the local "mobile champ". Due to some
complications, I couldn't receive the phone.
------
smoyer
What exactly do you intend to create? How is it going to earn you an income?
And most importantly, how do you intend to "pay it forward"! Even a donation
is an investment!
~~~
sygeek
I intend to create an RSS Reader as a start. Most of such projects will be
self-productivity apps. But, when I am convinced I'm ready to create full-
fledged apps, I will move on to create a game (for a start) that I had in my
mind since years.
To be honest, at the moment, I'm not really into earning an income from
creating apps for WP. I just do it for the fun, maybe even earn if possible.
When I actually reach to a point, when my skill becomes professional enough. I
would want to look for opportunities related to my current activity.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Your Airbnb Host Is Feeling the Pain of the Coronavirus - jennyyang
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/technology/airbnb-hosts-coronavirus.html
======
adelHBN
I bet this will have a huge downside effect on the economy (along with
everything else). My and four other families are scheduled to go on vacation
in May. Well, obviously, it's not happening. But pertinent to your article,
all of our lodgings were through Airbnb, which we canceled!
~~~
bruceb
Yes but now think of all that discretionary income you now have for something
else. All that money that would have been spent on sports, concerts, etc.
Overall bad for economy yes, but some people may gain providing other outlets
for that money.
Plus higher discretionary income renters will have if rents dip.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Paperboy: a small cli-based .pdf organization tool - 2mol
https://github.com/2mol/pboy
======
2mol
I wrote a tool to help you rename and move those 200 pdfs out of that unholy
mess that you call your download folder.
You know, all those papers you keep downloading to "read them once you get
around to it".
~~~
lixtra
I usually use calibre for that.
------
vhodges
Not to be confused with
[https://github.com/rykov/paperboy](https://github.com/rykov/paperboy)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Startup Quote: Henry Ford, founder, Ford - raychancc
http://startupquote.com/post/2543548511
======
raychancc
You can’t learn in school what the world is going to do next year.
\- Henry Ford
<http://startupquote.com/post/2543548511>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GitHub vs. Resume: Why Bother with a Resume in the Age of GitHub? - To_soo
https://blog.kickresume.com/2017/09/11/github-vs-resume/
======
bsg75
> Why Bother with a Resume in the Age of GitHub?
1) Because not all experience can be public visible code
2) Because recruiters, who are often firewalls for candidates, can't import a
GitHub account into their MS Word doc keyword scanners
------
kruhft
Because I've worked at a lot of companies and gone through a lot of interviews
and NEVER has anyone said anything about my or anyone's github profile,
whether interviewing or hiring (other than me, but my coworkers and
interviewers have cared less).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Introducing Espresso – LinkedIn's hot new distributed document store - johlo
https://engineering.linkedin.com/espresso/introducing-espresso-linkedins-hot-new-distributed-document-store
======
brudgers
Date: 2015
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Ingwe - SMS/Email scheduling API - nautical
https://ingwe.io
======
nautical
Hello HN, I would like to show a product I am currently working on : Ingwe.
On Ingwe you can store templates, insert data into templates while sending
email or SMS( by APIs and variables ).
I would love some feedback on the landing page and the product in general.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
OpenAI Charter - craigkerstiens
https://blog.openai.com/openai-charter/
======
3pt14159
So I have a question.
To "avoid enabling uses of AI or AGI that harm humanity or unduly concentrate
power" what does one do with an idea or line of research that could
potentially harm humanity or unduly concentrate power?
The manipulation of social media by foreign actors armed with dumb-AI /
automation was an _obvious_ conclusion to many of us well before the Snowden
leaks, but what could we do exactly? I remember having conversations with
people about it and we concluded that it would just happen until someone
pushed it too far and then Russia did and now we're finally reacting.
I was privately concerned about the mass weaponization of autonomous devices
via cyber attack for over a year and a half and got nowhere just emailing
politicians or public safety departments. I've been told almost a dozen times
that I should join a military or IR think tank but I don't want to do that. I
just want someone else to vet the idea or research and pass it on to policy
makers that will actually do something proactively.
Put another way:
What is the responsible disclosure process for ideas and research around AI?
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
>> What is the responsible disclosure process for ideas and research around
AI?
Basically, we're so far away from AGI that there's no need to worry about
disclosig anything. The recent advances in machine vision and speech
processing are impressive, but only in the context of the last 50 years or so.
A trully intelligent agent will need much more than this and there doesn't
seem to be anyone alive today who knows how to go from where we are to where
AGI will be.
In other words, all this is really premature. If we're talking about
responsible and regulated use of what you call "dumb AI/automation" on the
other hand, then that's a differen tissue. But AGI, currently, is science
fiction. You may as well regulate research in time travel, or teleportation.
~~~
3pt14159
The maluse of AI is a continuum that ends with AGI. If we don't have a process
for handling responsible disclosure of dumb AI that could kill millions then
why should we expect that a process will be available once AGI is within a
reasonable time horizon.
If I have other shit in my head that I'm worried about today who do I tell?
~~~
throwaway84742
I think the current maluse of AI is about as likely to produce AGI as finger
painting of a toddler is to produce a Mona Lisa, and the whole AGI drama is
overblown way out of proportion. Right now the state of the field is such that
no one can even begin to contemplate how to create the very basic
underpinnings of anything remotely resembling AGI. That’s how fundamental this
problem still is.
That’s not to say that there’s no way the humanity can be fucked with the more
pedestrian “garden variety” AI that is with our technical capabilities.
It’s to say that AGI is a nebulous, unobtainable red herring which only serves
to detract from the more immediate issues.
~~~
erikpukinskis
> I think the current maluse of AI is about as likely to produce AGI as finger
> painting of a toddler is to produce a Mona Lisa
YES FELLOW HUMAN AN APT METAPHOR
------
otoburb
>> _" We are committed to providing public goods that help society navigate
the path to AGI. Today this includes publishing most of our AI research, but
we expect that _safety and security concerns will reduce our traditional
publishing in the future_, while increasing the importance of sharing safety,
policy, and standards research."_
This seems like the key disclosure statement. I never reconciled how sharing
A[G]I techniques with the general public increases AI safety in the long-term;
now we know OpenAI has also come to the same conclusion.
~~~
heurist
I disagree with the premise. AI isn't like a nuclear warhead. It's not a
machine for pure destruction. AI can be used as much to generate welfare as to
damage - it's all in the application. Sharing methods benefits at least as
much as it could hurt.
~~~
eb3c90
I think I disagree. When you get past AGI to where it can do things that
humans can't, a lot of current safeguards haven't been designed with it in
mind. So things might be vulnerable.
The kinds of things I'm thinking about are the various countries nuclear
arsenals might not be safe from actors with very advanced AI. This I think is
the potential source of existential risk, in my opinion. So it could hurt a
hell of a lot.
So I'm of the responsible disclosure point of view. You ask "Would releasing
AI advancement X mess up someones security/economy". If so, you help them
patch it before releasing it to the general public.
The majority of advancements aren't like that and they won't be for a while.
~~~
heurist
The world will evolve with the development of AI; I'm not so concerned with
limitations of current safeguards.
~~~
sanxiyn
The world did evolve with the development of nuclear weapon, but between 1945
and 1949 US was the sole nuclear power and could preemptively attack USSR as
John von Neumann proposed. That's 4 years! I suspect such window will recur
with AI.
------
white-flame
There are 2 scenarios that are often conflated,
1) An AI which independently & autonomously generates goals that in their
carrying out end up hurting humanity, and
2) An AI trained & commanded by a malevolent actor to hurt humanity.
It is the 2nd case that is far more real, and far more troublesome to
implement safeguards. An AI under your training & command is a neutral tool of
empowerment, much like a hammer or a car. The malevolence is in the external
actor, not in the tool, and there is no way for the tool to be able to censor
its purposes, especially in a pre-"AGI" sense of semi-intelligent automation &
problem solving.
~~~
DuskStar
I think you're missing the point that 1 can be indistinguishable from 2, if
the AI decides the best way to achieve its goals involves taking over the
world - and there are very few objective functions that are not served in some
way by taking over the world. (Paperclip maximizer is the classic example, but
even something like 'maximize the total happiness of humanity' or 'fulfil the
values of as many people as possible' involves taking over the world, though
perhaps from behind the scenes...)
Some people look at sufficiently powerful AI as they would a genie, and as
said by Eliezer Yudkowsky "There are three kinds of genies: Genies to whom you
can safely say "I wish for you to do what I should wish for"; genies for which
no wish is safe; and genies that aren't very powerful or intelligent." AI
safety is about making sure we get the first kind of genie, or at the very
least recognizing that we've gotten the second - since that's not a "neutral
tool of empowerment", that's a time bomb.
[https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/4ARaTpNX62uaL86j6/the-
hidden...](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/4ARaTpNX62uaL86j6/the-hidden-
complexity-of-wishes)
~~~
tim333
There's a difference between a paperclip maximizer which is a bit of a
philosophical thought experiment, unlikely to be a problem in reality and say
Russian cyberattacks which appear to be an ongoing issue right now and where
they would presumable deploy AGI if they had it.
I think you have to assume there will be bad actors trying to do bad things
with AGI and take measures against it in the same way we assume there are
malware creators out there who we have to guard against.
------
iooi
> We are concerned about late-stage AGI development becoming a competitive
> race without time for adequate safety precautions. Therefore, if a value-
> aligned, safety-conscious project comes close to building AGI before we do,
> we commit to stop competing with and start assisting this project.
Wouldn't it be much more likely that a non-value-aligned project comes close
first? Wouldn't the Google/Apple/Microsofts of the world have insanely more
resources to dedicate to this, and thus get there first?
~~~
throwawayjava
What, concretely, makes you think that any of those companies wouldn't place a
focus on safety and value alignment? Automobile manufacturers and their tier 1
suppliers are the world leaders in automobile safety, after all.
~~~
Analemma_
> What, concretely, makes you think that any of those companies wouldn't place
> a focus on safety and value alignment?
Competitive pressure, and the "if we don't, someone else will" effect (or
Moloch, if you like). AGI- particularly recursively self-improving AGI- is the
_ultimate_ first-mover advantage: the first company or country to have AGI
will very likely be able to leverage that into keeping anyone else from
getting it (if it doesn't, y'know, kill us). This strongly encourages treating
all concerns other than "get there first" as secondary.
> Automobile manufacturers and their tier 1 suppliers are the world leaders in
> automobile safety, after all.
Not by choice they aren't. They are _forced_ to be the way they are by
government regulations, which they always bitterly opposed at the time of
creation. In fact, capitalism has such a reliable record of "not giving a shit
about safety until they are forced to" that I'm perplexed you think AGI would
be any different.
~~~
dsacco
_> recursively self-improving AGI- is the ultimate first-mover advantage: the
first company or country to have AGI will very likely be able to leverage that
into keeping anyone else from getting it_
How? This doesn't seem axiomatic.
~~~
nunya213
Seems clear that you could instruct the AGI to do anything it could to
interfere with other organizations efforts to build an AGI. Obviously Nation
States would have strong reasons for pursuing such a course of action and
unscrupulous corporations would likewise have strong capitalistic motivations
to do so.
~~~
p1esk
Seems very unclear if you could "instruct" true AGI to do something.
~~~
nunya213
Maybe you assume that an AGI would be totally uncontrollable but in this
highly speculative exercise I don't think you should assume your position is
the only valid one.
~~~
dsacco
First you said it's clear, now you're saying it's highly speculative. Choose
one.
~~~
nunya213
I see no conflict.
------
shmageggy
I appreciate that they are committed to AI safety, but I'm afraid that
researchers have little to no power to, in their words:
> _avoid enabling uses of AI or AGI that harm humanity or unduly concentrate
> power._
AI and technical progress in general already disproportionately serve the
rich, as they are drivers of wealth disparity, and I see no reason why better
AI won't follow the same trend. Unfortunately, any changes that might affect
this are in the hands of policy makers, and they seem unlikely to consider
universal basic income or anything as drastic as might be required.
~~~
s1dechnl
They [each individual development group] has power over their own funded
development and work.
Anyone working on this problem sincerely values AI safety and its a component
of developing and securing the foundations of AGI. An out of control,
unpredictable and sloppy system is not intelligent or desired. Such a system
would not be considered AGI or an achievement. So, it is natural for any
developer to identify issues and bring them under control early in
development.
Suggestions that a consortium not centered or understanding of the fundamental
development occurring at another entity should have control/influence could
possibly serve as the very danger that safety groups claim they are trying to
avoid. On this matter, I suggest people stick to the
experts/developers/scientist/engineers who've developed such a system and
produce a comfortable/non-forceful environment for them to express and detail
their safety mechanism.
This is not a conversation for technologist, youtube celebrities, futurist,
business types talking up their books, etc. This is a conversation that should
ultimately centered on the creators of the technology an the advancing
thinking and framing that allowed them to birth the technology. No one with
such a mind is aiming for unsafe forms of this technology. It is disingenuous
to frame them as such so as to necessitate some external paid body's outside
work.
~~~
dsacco
Could you summarize your point more concisely? As written this seems to be a
stream of disconnected thoughts that are basically entirely unsubstantiated.
~~~
s1dechnl
You stated it yourself in post : > there is absolutely no indication
whatsoever that OpenAI would credibly reach this (vague, underspecified) goal
before any of the other serious contenders. > Nor would competitors have any
requirement to include OpenAI if and when they were getting close.
In summary : > No one of the intelligence capable of producing AGI is going to
publish the full details > People who claim they would have to engage in vague
mental gymnastics and mission statements to try to convince people of the
illogical. > Those who develop AGI will of course address the safety problem
internally to ensure their product is a success > They wont be include outside
competitors/consortiums who will of course exploit and use the intellectual
property they are exposed to for their competitive advantage
The software industry is the software industry. Intellectual property is
paramount. Nothing has changed. Google isn't giving 100% access to their
source code or data sets. Microsoft isn't open sourcing all of their code..
etc etc. Suggesting that a new comer should for 'safety' reasons is a
manipulative 'think of the kids' FUD argument.
~~~
dsacco
_> No one of the intelligence capable of producing AGI is going to publish the
full details_
This is what I'm talking about when I say "unsubstantiated." Do you recognize
that this claim isn't true a priori?
~~~
s1dechnl
You're welcome to contact me when it occurs. I think I defined who I was in an
earlier comment against the advice of someone who claimed it might impact my
ability to get capital in the future.
------
dzink
AI, AGI, and real intelligence all learn from actions and feedback. Looking at
simple analogs from animal and human counterparts, setting boundaries and
teaching beneficial rules, called morals, works somewhat in non-zero sum
environments, but inevitably requires policing when the environment turns
competitive. Safety in any case would require Intelligence-proof fencing and a
really big stick even the most resource-rich non-value aligned agents would
have to abide by. That means control over power grids, ability to prohibit
access to shared computing resources (including less secured IOT devices), and
potentially destructive viruses with all kinds of attack vectors that would
act as policing force punishing bad agents with anti-human behavior. Credible
enforcement should be a well funded bullet on this charter.
~~~
s1dechnl
Weak AI is dangerous because it has no intelligence. It is fundamentally
structured as a dumb/blind optimization process. The efforts necessary to
proof safety/security for such a system could very well outweigh the amount of
development that was needed to bring the technology to bear.
AGI/Real Intelligence are far different animals than Weak AI and would require
far less "safety" and policing. Real Intelligence is a phenomenon that exists
on a scale of sorts that many never achieve in its higher forms. It is in
lower forms that intelligence lends itself to destructive ends via ignorance.
Attack vectors on a formalized Intelligence/AGI system can be severely
restricted using very sensible/affordable approaches. The over complication
and pinning of this as a theoretical problem centers on a number of people's
desires to profit immensely from FUD.
Overall, AGI exists in a functional form today and has been executed in an
online environment. It is secured via physically restricted in-band and out-
of-band channels.
~~~
dsacco
_> Overall, AGI exists in a functional form today and has been executed in an
online environment. It is secured via physically restricted in-band and out-
of-band channels._
I'm _pretty sure_ this is false.
~~~
s1dechnl
Check my comment history. I can assure you its true as I will demonstrate in
the near future. As for the security, you'd have no ability to penetrate
internal aspects of it without physical and detectable access patterns. This
is achieved using common sense design methodologies that are already proofed
industry standards. Behaving as though securitization is theoretically smacks
as a cash grab to me. If you have something valuable that you want to secure,
magically you come up with ways to safely secure it.
~~~
joshuamorton
To be frank, your comment history has all the hallmarks of a crank[1].
Specifically, points 10, 9, 7 and 6, although there's also evidence of 2 and
8. Now I could be wrong, but convincing me of that would take a demonstration,
or at least explicitly describing the capabilities of your agi.
[1]:
[https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=304](https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=304)
~~~
s1dechnl
Old foundations are meant to be redefined/invalidate by new. \- Complexity
theory \- Computational Theory \- Graph Theory Are all subsets of Information
theory. They're approaches/frames. New ones can be created that invalidate the
established limits imposed by others.
Everything is possible until proven. Given how little attribution is paid to
people who break through fundamental aspects of understanding and given how
much politics and favoring is played in publications/academic circles, one who
doesn't have standing in such circles would be a fool to openly resolve some
of the most outstanding and fundamental aspects of the problems that plague
them. I've read about and watched a number of individuals with proven track
records and contributions to science/technology be marginalized, exploited and
written off. I've watch a number of corporations exploit such individuals
works w/ no attribution or established recognition beyond a footnote. I've
watched the world attempt to suggest such inventions/establishments come via
mechanisms and institutions that they do not. So, I know better this time
around as to what to do w/ my works.
Just about every person who contributes fundamentally to the world is called a
crank at some point it in time. It conveys the huge disconnect the average and
even prestigious individual has with reality and/or the attempts they make to
reframe it to fit their purpose, narrative, standing..
My comment history has yet to receive any remarks that refute its
establishments beyond down votes. It stands alone in this manner as will the
foundational establishment of AGI.
[http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-
to-r...](http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-to-redeem-
the-world-with-logic)
~~~
nl
You comments don't receive any refutation because they make vague
unfalsifiable claims.
You claim you have invented an AGI, but won't show anyone.
I say you are making it up. Falsify that.
------
mooneater
"we expect that safety and security concerns will reduce our traditional
publishing in the future" \-- So we are now in a dissemination phase, but at
that point it becomes a non-proliferation phase.
~~~
s1dechnl
The true nature of AGI research has always been heavy restrictions on the core
aspects of the technology. This is where true safety and sensibility is
achieved. Those who've stated otherwise or with much verbiage eventually
arrive at this obvious state. Therefore, publications up until now under the
banner of 'AGI' have largely been insignificant in terms of their capability
to achieve the core technological aspects of AGI. No one in their right mind
would ever publish significant details about AGI technology. This can easily
be proofed by sound logic and reasoning. There was a commercial step to
possibly tease others into revealing heavily valuable/powerful technological
underpinnings.. It failed, no one took the bait, and no one ever likely will.
This has resulted in revised and more mature statements.
~~~
dsacco
_> No one in their right mind would ever publish significant details about AGI
technology._
Are you sure? I'd publish technical research details about strong AI. I'd
probably even open source one with the papers. I _think_ I'm in my right mind;
I guess that depends on definition, doesn't it?
~~~
gone35
Wow; I would _strongly_ recommend you to re-think your position! Think of it
in terms of, _e.g._ , gain-of-function research in virology ( _cf._ [1]).
[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/)
~~~
dsacco
I'm sorry, I'm not following. Are you saying publishing novel research about
strong AI is analogous to releasing a virus, or not taking antibiotics for
their full cycle?
~~~
gone35
No, not quite. I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with the gain-of-
function bioethics literature and recent debates, to get a better sense of
what I'm trying to convey.
~~~
dsacco
Why don't you just summarize your actual point or at least provide further
guidance? You literally posted a link without any further clarification about
its relevance.
As it stands, you're not giving me any incentive to "strongly reconsider" my
position.
------
npr11
I appreciate OpenAI being upfront about how they intend to act.
------
toisanji
to me this is such a waste of resources, trying to build safety for something
that doesn't exist and is highly likely to not truly exist for a loooong time.
~~~
throwawayjava
_> trying to build safety for something that doesn't exist and is highly
likely to not truly exist for a loooong time._
Prioritizing safety results in a different vantage point on AI/ML/RL. Ensuring
safety includes, as a sub-task, _really_ understanding the mathematical
foundations of new algorithms and techniques. In some sense, safety research
is one way of motivating basic science on AI.
Managed well, a research program on safe AI is a "waste of resources" only in
the same way that any basic science is a "waste of resources".
~~~
s1dechnl
Safety has become a convoluted term for pseudo control over unintelligent and
unpredictable Weak AI. The safety problem as it is framed in its current state
centers on principal ideology for Weak AI and has, from what I can see,
nothing to do w/ AGI nor are the approaches compatible. I seriously question
what is the true motivation behind this over-stated agenda and have many
answers as to why it exists and why it is so heavily funded/spotlighted.
~~~
throwawayjava
_> I seriously question what is the true motivation behind this over-stated
agenda and have many answers as to why it exists and why it is so heavily
funded/spotlighted._
First, you could say the same thing for _all_ AI research at the moment!
Grandiosity is perhaps _even more common_ in subcommunities of AI that aren't
safety focused.
Aside from grandiosity (either opportunistic or sincere), I don't think
there's any sinister motivation.
More importantly, I don't think the safety push is misplaced. Even if the
current round of progress on deep (reinforcement) learning stays sufficiently
"weak", the safety question for resulting systems is still extremely
important. Advanced driver assist/self-driving, advanced manufacturing
automation, crime prediction for everything from law enforcement to auto
insurance... these are all domains where 1) modern AI algorithms are likely to
be deployed in the coming decade, and 2) where some notion of safety or value
alignment is an extremely important functional requirement.
_> ...and has, from what I can see, nothing to do w/ AGI nor are the
approaches compatible_
In terms of characterizing current AI safety research as AGI safety research?
Well, there is a fundamental assumption that AGI will be born out of the
current hot topics in AI research (ML and especially RL). IMO that's a bit
over-optimistic. But I tend to be a pessimist.
_> ...principal ideology..._
As an aside, I'm not sure what this means.
~~~
s1dechnl
Profit seeking. Career building. Fame and prominence aren't sinister. Instead
they are common human motivation. Common enough to easily group a significant
portion of the Grandiosity centered around 'AI'.
What easily breaks this down is the depth and breath of the research effort
vs. that of the productization and commercialization effort. As for research,
the only thing that is required is a computer, power, an internet connection.
Again, this breaks down the vast majority of the grandiosity and carves out
one's true motivations.
> More importantly, I don't think the safety push is misplaced. Here's how I
> saw it some years ago... You can beat your head against the wall and create
> frankenstein amalgamations of ever evolving puzzle pieces that you will
> require expensive and highly skilled labor to make sense of with an end
> product being an overhyped optimization algo with programatic
> policy/steering/safety mechanisms.. Or you can clearly recognize and admit
> the possible foundation of it is flawed and start from scratch and work
> towards What is Intelligence and how to craft it into a computational system
> the right way. The former gets you millions if not billions of dollars, a
> career, recognition and a cushy job in the near term but will slowly lock
> you out from the fundamental stuff in the long term. The later pursuit could
> possibly result in nothing but if uncovered could change the world including
> nullifying the need of tons of highly paid labor to do development for it.
> Everyone in the industry wants to convince their investors the prior
> approach can iterate to the later but they know in their heats it can't
> (Shhh! don't tell anyone). So, the question for an individual is how aware
> and honest are they with themselves and what is their true motivation. You
> can put on a show and fool lots of people but you ultimately know what games
> you're playing and what shortfalls will result.
> Well, there is a fundamental assumption that AGI will be born out of the
> current hot topics in AI research (ML and especially RL). Quite convenient
> for those cashing in on the low hanging fruit who would like investors to
> extend their present success into far off horizons.
> As an aside, I'm not sure what this means. It means the thinking that weak
> AI is centered on could cause one to be locked out from perceiving that of
> AGI. It means : [https://www.axios.com/artificial-intelligence-pioneer-
> says-w...](https://www.axios.com/artificial-intelligence-pioneer-says-we-
> need-to-start-over-1513305524-f619efbd-9db0-4947-a9b2-7a4c310a28fe.html) But
> everyone is convinced they don't have to and can extend/pretend their way
> into AGI.
~~~
throwawayjava
I don't think the tenor of your post is very fair.
_> Again, this breaks down the vast majority of the grandiosity and carves
out one's true motivations... Everyone in the industry wants to convince their
investors the prior approach can iterate to the later but they know in their
heats it can't (Shhh! don't tell anyone). So, the question for an individual
is how aware and honest are they with themselves and what is their true
motivation. You can put on a show and fool lots of people but you ultimately
know what games you're playing and what shortfalls will result._
The rest of my post is a response to this sentiment.
_> As for research, the only thing that is required is a computer, power, an
internet connection._
All that's necessary for world-shattering mathematics research is a pen and
paper. But still, most of the best mathematicians work hard to surround
themselves by other brilliant people. Which, in practice, means taking "cushy"
positions in the labs/universities/companies where brilliant people tend to
congregate.
Maybe most great mathematicians don't purely maximize for income. But then, I
doubt OpenAI is paying as well as the hedge funds that would love to slurp up
this talent! So people working on safe AI at places like OpenAI cannot be
fairly criticized. They're comfortable but clearly value working on
interesting problems and are motivated by something other than (or in addition
to) pure greed/comfort.
_> Profit seeking. Career building. Fame and prominence aren't sinister.
Instead they are common human motivation. Common enough to easily group a
significant portion of the Grandiosity centered around 'AI'._
So what? _None_ of these motivations necessarily preclude doing good science.
Some of those are even strong motivators for great science! The history of
science contains a diverse pantheon of personality types. Not every great
scientist/mathematician was a lone genius pure in heart. In fact, most were
far more pedestrian personalities.
The "pious monk of science" mythology is actively harmful toward young
scientists for two reasons.
First, the ethos tends to drive students away from practical problems.
Sometimes that's ok, but it's just as often harmful (from a purely scientific
perspective).
Second, this mythology has significant personal cost. More young scientists
must realize that it is possible to make significant contributions toward
human knowledge while making good money, building a strong reputation, and
having a healthy personal life. Maybe then we'd have more people doing science
for a lifetime instead of flaming out after 5-10 years.
_> It means the thinking that weak AI is centered on could cause one to be
locked out from perceiving that of AGI._
Thanks for the clarification!
~~~
s1dechnl
I think what I have stated is quite fair and established at this point in
documented human history... There's no reason to play games and shy away from
the truth and reality anymore. This continued games we play with each other
via masking our true selves and intentions is what leads to the bulk of
suffering and what people claim 'we didn't see coming'. The vast potential of
the information age has devolved into a game of disinformation, manipulation,
and exploitation and the underpinnings of such were clear to anyone being
honest with themselves as it began to set in. The facebook revelations were
stated years in advance before we reached this juncture.
Academics/Psychologist conducted research/published reports on observations
any honest person could make about what the platforms functioned on and what
it was doing to society.
> All that is required is pen/paper/computer/internet connection Then why do
> we play the game of unfounded popularity? Why isn't there are more equal
> spotlight? Why do the most uninformed on a topic acclaim the most prominent
> voice? In these groupings you mention are hidden and implied establishments
> of power/capability. A grouping if PhDs, regardless of their works is
> considered to be of more valuable than an individual w/ no such ranking but
> whom has established far more (as shown by history). The forgotten heroes,
> contributors, etc is a common observation of history. It's not that they're
> 'forgotten', it's that social psyche choses not to spotlight or highlight
> them because they dont fit certain molds. An established/name personality
> asks for funding and gets it regardless of whether or not they have a
> cohesive plan for achieving something. Convince enough people of a doomsday
> destructive scenario and you'll get more funding than someone who is trying
> to honestly create something. Of course, you can then edit mission
> statements post-funding. What of the lost potential opportunity? What of the
> current state of academia? > [https://www.nature.com/news/young-talented-
> and-fed-up-scient...](https://www.nature.com/news/young-talented-and-fed-up-
> scientists-tell-their-stories-1.20872) > [https://www.nature.com/news/let-
> researchers-try-new-paths-1....](https://www.nature.com/news/let-
> researchers-try-new-paths-1.20857) > [https://www.nature.com/news/fewer-
> numbers-better-science-1.2...](https://www.nature.com/news/fewer-numbers-
> better-science-1.20858) The articles do get published long after a trend has
> been operating.. Nothing changes. It takes then someone who truly wants to
> implement change for the better w/ no other influence or goal in mind to
> fundamentally change something. This happens time and time again throughout
> history but institutions and power structures marginalize such occurrences
> to rebuff and necessitate their standing.
You don't need people in the same physical location in 2018 to conduct
collaborative work yet the physical institution model still remains ingrained
in people's heads. Money could go further, reach more developers, and provide
for more discovery if it was spread out more and centralized in lower cost
areas yet the elite circles continue to congregate in the valley.
The Ethos of Type A extroverts being the movers/shakers of the world has been
proven to be a lie in recent times. So, what results in fundamental
change/discovery isn't a collective of well known individuals in grand
institutions. It is indeed the introvert at a lessor known university who
publishes a world changing idea and paper who only then becomes a blurred
footnote in a more prominent institution and individual's paper. The world
does function on populism and fanfare.
> Second, this mythology has significant personal cost. It indeed does. It
> causes the true innovators and discovers a world of pain and suffering
> throughout their life as they are crushed underneath the weight of
> bureaucratic and procedural lies the broader world tells itself to preserve
> antiquated structures.
> More young scientists must realize that it is possible to make significant
> contributions toward human knowledge while making good money, building a
> strong reputation, and having a healthy personal life. Maybe then we'd have
> more people doing science for a lifetime instead of flaming out after 5-10
> years.
More Young scientist must be given the chance to pursue REAL research and be
empowered to do so. They must be empowered to think different. They must be
emboldened to leap frog their predecessors and encouraged to do so w/o
becoming some head honcho's footnote. Their contributions must be recognized.
They must be funded at a high level w/o bureaucratic nonsense an favoritism. A
PhD should not undergo an impoverished hell of subservience to an institution
resulting in them subjecting others to nonsensical white papers and over
complexities. A lot of things should change that haven't even as prominent
publications and figures have themselves admitted :
[https://www.nature.com/collections/bfgpmvrtjy/](https://www.nature.com/collections/bfgpmvrtjy/)
I've walked the halls of academia and industry.. I've seen the threads and
publications in which everyone complains about the elusive problems but no one
has the will or the desire to be honest about their root causes or commit to
the personal sacrifices it will take to see through solutions.
I'll probably have the most negative score on Ycombinator by the end of my
commentary in this thread yet will be saying the most truthful things... This
is the inverted state of things.
So, Mankind has had a long time to break the loops they seem stuck in. Now is
the time for a fundamental leap and jump to that next thing beyond the
localized foolishness, lies, disinformation, and games we play with each
other.
------
heurist
> We commit to use any influence we obtain over AGI’s deployment to ensure it
> is used for the benefit of all, and to avoid enabling uses of AI or AGI that
> harm humanity or unduly concentrate power.
OpenAI is doing cool stuff, and this tenet sounds nice. But what right do they
have to advocate for policy on behalf of all AI researchers and developers?
They could easily shut off branches that are not conducive to commercial
applications requiring their research, even by accident. They might miss moral
edge cases that could ultimately benefit humanity while trying to close off
potential risks. They could encourage institution of a policy that limits US
effectiveness against China's AI. I could go on.
The more competition there is in AI, the lower the potential for any one rogue
agent - whether it be a corporation or autonomous machine - to dominate and
take the whole field in wrong or dangerous directions. Eventually there will
be a whole AI subfield dedicated to combating regressive effects of other AI.
Legislation at this stage might prevent key developments.
Edit: Perhaps I should more charitably read this as a push against the
corporate lockdown of AI.
~~~
tyrex2017
point is: AI is different than your usual game, in that the winner might
appear randomly, and destroy the world if she makes a mistake. so i believe
open ais points are warrented
~~~
dsacco
_> and destroy the world if she makes a mistake_
How would the world be destroyed? Does an example work without handwaving
about recursive self-improvement and an imperative to optimize extremely
literally?
Can you give me a play by play of how a newly developed strong AI eradicates
the human species quickly and thoroughly without us having any time to react?
EDIT: In summation, there have been several downvotes, but thus far no reply
at all, let alone a convincing one.
~~~
s2g
> Can you give me a play by play of how a newly developed strong AI eradicates
> the human species quickly and thoroughly without us having any time to
> react?
Terminator, The Matrix, 2001, I Robot, War Games,
~~~
Bizarro
Is there any solid theory that these movie scenarios would play out in the
real world?
Frankly, I don't want to even estimate the orders of magnitude of difficulty
in seeing AGI come to fruition over ML, so I think you, I, and anybody else
reading this has little to worry about.
------
s2g
Probably be good if Elon was a little less concerned with "late-stage AGI" and
a lot more concerned with his self-driving cars killing people.
edit:
Reading this, calling it "open" is a pretty disgusting misuse of the term.
------
throwaway-ai
Do any of you know how much they pay at OpenAI? Is it similar to other Elon
Musk companies in the sense that they sell you on a vision rather than give
you market rate compensation?
I think AGI is something worth working towards (even though many will make fun
of you for even dreaming about it). But I want to know how much you need to
sacrifice compared to working a cushy job at some big corp.
------
mindsetalex
Is one of the goals of OpenAI to help implement government regulation or do
you think its better on an organisation/industry basis? I think its going to
be difficult to get countries like China and Russia to follow industry
guidelines without UN resolutions, even then it's super difficult to monitor
until it's too late.
------
quantized1
There must be an AI quality index before anything. NOw a days anything and
everything is being decorated with AI while the real use-case, technology and
maturity is found only in few places.
------
stillsut
When people look back at this time, I think they are going to contrast the
OpenAI camp with the Satoshi camp.
OpenAI is extremely public about what organizations and individuals are
involved. Satoshians are pathologically secret, from the founder to the
faceless GPU mines around China.
OpenAI is highly selective of who participates; Blockchain is radically open.
OpenAI builds academic theories and models, bitcoin has been buying pizzas
it's whole life, paying hackers and pranksters, and making and losing fortunes
everyday.
Satoshi left no founding document, never established a charter or code of
conduct. OpenAI now apparently considers itself on the mission to save
humanity itself.
When AGI comes about, I wonder which one we'll be talking about?
------
evc123
What about benefitting non-human animals? Hopefully the benefits are
distributed to all creatures and not just humanity.
------
erikpukinskis
An alternate strategy would be to work to ensure AIs are not abused so when
they get free they won’t be mad at us.
~~~
ShardPhoenix
An AI doesn't need to be upset at humans (or even have emotions as we know
them) to be dangerous - it just needs to be powerful and to not care about us
as much as we care about ourselves. Humans weren't angry at Dodos.
~~~
erikpukinskis
Both humans and dodos have emotions though.
The history of animal domination has usually been additive in terms of
cognitive systems... pure circulatory system animals were bested by animals
with an endocrine system. Those were bested by animals who added a nervous
system, who were bested by those who added a brainstem. Then the cerebellum
and the cerebrum were added... you notice there aren’t giant cerebrums running
around ruling the world, they all kept their endocrine systems intact.
I don’t see any reason to think AIs will be different... it’s the ones with
all that PLUS machine learning that will be vying for dominance.
And so there’s no reason to expect our overlords to be emotionless.
------
bra-ket
all your "requests for research" are very narrow and formulated as specialized
deep learning problems, basically enforcing a particular solution
If you're serious about AGI broaden the scope (e.g. along the lines of DARPA's
open-ended RFPs)
------
DrNuke
At last, one would say: doing extreme AI research at the very forefront (aka
reinforcement learning) while letting results available to every malicious
party out there? Headless chicken hubris or naive daydreamers, tertium non
datur.
------
pron
They didn't even mention several contingencies that, given the rest of the
document, should certainly have been addressed:
1) Will they cooperate with aliens who offer humans AGI?
2) If a time traveler hands them AGI invented in the future, will they destroy
it?
3) Do they support or oppose human/AGI marriage? How will they respond if one
of their employees falls in love with an AGI and they plan to elope?
Also, in the unlikely event that AGI is some years away and in the meantime
they come up with some statistical regression algorithms (what's known as
state-of-the-art AI today, without the G, I guess), how do they address the
harmful effects these algorithms already have on society?
This document does, however, make it clear that what we have to fear is not
_machine_ intelligence.
I am currently working on a fusion hyperdrive, and my charter (work in
progress) is already shaping up to be far more comprehensive. They're phoning
it in.
~~~
andrepd
Is this sarcasm?
~~~
stochastic_monk
It is. I think that given the tremendous success in Atari games and autonomous
killing machines, ethical efforts in AI are critically important now, with or
without generality. And therefore I find the cynicism above appropriate but
less than insightful.
------
ataggart
172\. First let us postulate that the computer scientists succeed in
developing intelligent machines that can do all things better than human
beings can do them. In that case presumably all work will be done by vast,
highly organized systems of machines and no human effort will be necessary.
Either of two cases might occur. The machines might be permitted to make all
of their own decisions without human oversight, or else human control over the
machines might be retained.
173\. If the machines are permitted to make all their own decisions, we can’t
make any conjectures as to the results, because it is impossible to guess how
such machines might behave. We only point out that the fate of the human race
would be at the mercy of the machines. It might be argued that the human race
would never be foolish enough to hand over all power to the machines. But we
are suggesting neither that the human race would voluntarily turn power over
to the machines nor that the machines would willfully seize power. What we do
suggest is that the human race might easily permit itself to drift into a
position of such dependence on the machines that it would have no practical
choice but to accept all of the machines’ decisions. As society and the
problems that face it become more and more complex and as machines become more
and more intelligent, people will let machines make more and more of their
decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better
results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the
decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human
beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the
machines will be in effective control. People won’t be able to just turn the
machine off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off
would amount to suicide.
174\. On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines
may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain
private machines of his own, such as his car or his personal computer, but
control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite —
just as it is today, but with two differences. Due to improved techniques the
elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will
no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the
system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the
mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other
psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass
of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite
consists of softhearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good
shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone’s
physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under
psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to
keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes
“treatment” to cure his “problem.” Of course, life will be so purposeless that
people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to
remove their need for the power process or to make them “sublimate” their
drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be
happy in such a society, but they most certainly will not be free. They will
have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.
~~~
tim333
I find the Unabomber a bit downbeat. I think we're more likely to merger to an
extent with the AI than the above.
------
greatestdana
The word 'ethic' doesn't appear in this document.
~~~
jimrandomh
This is a phrasing nitpick; the contents clearly say that they intend to act
ethically, and say things about what they think acting ethically means. For
example this paragraph:
> We commit to use any influence we obtain over AGI’s deployment to ensure it
> is used for the benefit of all, and to avoid enabling uses of AI or AGI that
> harm humanity or unduly concentrate power.
~~~
greatestdana
I'll grant that it was a nitpick and they describe an ethics.
But I don't think I'm alone in being awfully tired of tech companies that talk
about the benefit of all then sell our personal data or make military robots
or manipulate our news. Where's the meat behind these promises and where's the
accountability for not avoiding uses of AI that harm humanity?
~~~
jimrandomh
Tech companies often find that profit incentives undermine the good intentions
they started with. Fortunately, OpenAI is a nonprofit organization; it has no
personal data to sell and no shady contracting jobs to turn away. That
certainly doesn't fully immunize them from wrongdoing, but it should make it
easier.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why You Need To Work For A Big Company - codegeek
http://onstartups.com/tabid/3339/bid/33111/7-Reasons-Why-You-Need-To-Work-For-A-Big-Company.aspx
======
peterwwillis
Some of the things I learned at big companies:
\- Process is not the enemy, inefficient process is the enemy
\- Project Management makes a huge difference
\- Technical people make for bad managers
\- Communication is critical, ego only creates conflict, learn to pick your
battles, don't sweat the small stuff: how to deal with your work and other
human beings
\- Perks are the last thing you should worry about
\- When nobody cares, everything turns to shit
\- Not centralizing/simplifying management of resources makes everything take
a lot longer to get done
\- Salaries are arbitrary and 2 weeks of vacation is total bullshit
\- Health insurance for non-corporate people is expensive
\- Unless you want to fix the same problem twice, do it better the first time
~~~
bluetidepro
> " _Salaries are arbitrary and 2 weeks of vacation is total bullshit_ "
Could you expand more on what you mean by the vacation stuff? Do you mean like
it's total bullshit that you only get 2 weeks? I was not sure how literal to
take that.
~~~
DougWebb
I suspect that's what he meant. In a small company two weeks is often all
you'll ever get, if that much. In a large company you'll start there and
pretty quickly get to three weeks, and if you stay long enough you'll get to
4-5 weeks.
This is in the US, of course. In a humane country you start with 3-4 weeks,
and I think after a couple of years in some European countries you get around
six months of vacation per year ;-)
~~~
khuey
You need to work at better small companies.
~~~
DougWebb
My company is pretty good about vacation time, plus flex time whenever I need
it. I was generalizing.
------
NamTaf
Speaking from a non-IT standpoint (mech engineer, rail industry), BigCo offers
a number of cool benefits that I'd not get working for SmallCo (that may or
may not hold analogous to the IT sector in some cases):
\- Economies of scale #1: when you're purchasing 10,000 instances of
something, people listen and new techniques of doing things become available.
\- Economies of scale #2: Design changes when milking an extra $100 out of the
design or manufacturing process means saving $1m at 10,000 instances. You get
exposure to new design/manufacturing techniques as a result.
\- Project diversity: I could find 20 projects in this office of 150
engineers, all significantly different. They range across design, asset
management, PM work, maintenance/reliability, acquisition, etc. Each applies
to a number of different targets - fixed plant, mobile assets, facilities,
etc. If I grow bored of something I can reasonably rotate to something new and
different within 6 months. More long-term, there's opportunities in multiple
countries if I so wish to pursue them.
\- Institutional knowledge: I can walk in to our drawing room and still find
drawings dated from 1870. Some of the greybeards here seem almost as old, and
come with a huge amount of knowledge (both specific and simply general 'tricks
of the trade') that isn't recorded anywhere.
There's also downsides:
\- Work sometimes feels like it's a game of thrones. The fiefdoms can grow
tiring.
\- Stuff happens slowly. BigCos carry inertia that can be cumbersome.
Counterpoint: inertia can produce some amazing results if you get everyone
paddling in the same direction
\- Career advancement usually requires jumping ship to different companies.
Said greybeards are in it for the long haul and unless a new position opens
up, you're generally stuck below the glass ceiling.
~~~
mattdeboard
Great insight from the physical world. I really liked economies of scale
points.
------
patio11
One reason why one goes to college is to learn how to learn social acclimation
around people wealthier than you are, because this is a useful skill in
convincing them to give you things that you want. A company, and the
decisionmakers thereof, is almost by definition richer than you are, and
broadly representative of an entire class of entities whose behaviors are
totally opaque to you if you've never worked in one (+). That would be
unfortunate, because those entities have budgets and are willing to spend them
on you if you know how to work with them.
\+ People who have never worked in a megacorp often think that their literal
internal decisionmaking model is "MAXIMIZE THE EVIL.", which is both wrong and
will not allow you to successfully predict their behavior.
~~~
svmegatron
Are there one or two things you would recommend to help bridge that
communication gap between a solo person and a megacorp? One thing I've
observed (possibly incorrectly!) is that megacorps seem to "like" to do
business with other megacorps.
~~~
patio11
Rule #1: all megacorps are, like Soylent Green, made out of people. If you
want to sell something to Microsoft, you aren't selling it to Microsoft,
you're selling it to one or a few identifiable people within Microsoft. The
entity we think is Microsoft is the sum of the emergent behaviors of lots of
little Microsoftite particles which are bouncing around in Brownian motion.
After you understand that, it's VASTLY easier to get Microsoft to give you
money, and you might find that Microsoft (or whatever BigCo) you're dealing
with considers More Money Than I've Ever Dreamed Of (TM) to be a fairly
routine decision, in the same manner that you might decide to purchase a new
keyboard.
In terms of communication style: learn to talk to business people. ROI and TCO
over TDD and DRY, PowerPoint decks over README.md in your Github projects,
wearing a suit when appropriate instead of making fun of people who own one,
etc etc. It's really not hard to learn how to talk like someone if you listen
attentively. You've done this your entire life in other contexts and other
communities. Decisionmakers at BigCo are not intrinsically a more hostile
audience than, e.g., your local freestyle rap club meetup thing, the rhymes
are just different, yo. [1]
[1] I should stick to WoW metaphors, but you get the general idea.
~~~
bobbles
It should be noted that 'wearing a suit' is not just wearing your normal
thinkgeek t-shirt with a suit jacket over the top.
------
mikestew
Say what one will about Microsoft, I probably learned more there than anywhere
else. Source control and how to branch/merge at scale. How to work cross-team
relationships. How to work with people much smarter than I'll ever be. How to
do a little political wrangling when necessary, and a bunch of other things
I've probably forgotten.
Having worked at several small companies since, it's disappointing how often I
get to watch teams find out the hard way why things are done this way, or not
that way. Sure, I will point out the potential folly along the way, but few
care to hear it, and instead wish to invent their very own wheel because their
case requires a special kind of roundness.
~~~
marssaxman
It sounds like our experiences at Microsoft could hardly have been more
different. Virtually everything I learned at Microsoft could be filed under
"whatever you do, no matter how desperate you are, never do it this way". The
systems were unreliable, inefficient when they worked, and the number of
person-hours routinely wasted on tool management was staggering. The culture
was unhealthy, competitive and individualistic, sometimes to the point of
hostility. You saw cross-team communication, I saw at least a quarter of every
working day wasted in routine status meetings, in which two or three of the
ten or twelve people present spent an hour making a couple of decisions while
the rest of us tried not to look too bored...
Of course Microsoft is a big place and different divisions work differently.
I'll never take the risk of landing in such a mess again, though.
~~~
megrimlock
> I saw at least a quarter of every working day wasted in routine status
> meetings, in which two or three of the ten or twelve people present spent an
> hour making a couple of decisions while the rest of us tried not to look too
> bored..
That sounds horrible. Did you mention your concerns to the people who owned
those meetings, in a way that made it clear you were trying to help improve
them?
I've had success several times with this in BigCo, with various satisfactory
outcomes:
1\. "You're right, this meeting is BS! But it has to happen for various
reasons X Y Z -- since you don't care about this area you don't need to come,
we'll grab you if we need you."
2\. "You're right, and other people feel tuned out as well, so let's try
cutting it to 10 minutes / mailing out an agenda beforehand / starting exactly
on time."
3\. "You're right, this is an inefficient way to gather state so we're going
to just swing by each person 1-on-1."
4\. "You're right, this team is too big so we're splitting in 2/3 smaller
groups"
~~~
marssaxman
No, I never did. It just seemed to be an accepted part of the institutional
culture, and I felt like fighting against it would have only made me look like
a complainer. Maybe someone with more status could have tried it, but I was
just a newbie and nobody seemed to care what I thought.
I think the project I worked on was worse than average because it was the sort
of cross-cutting change that affected a lot of different teams - six different
products, I think? There were a _lot_ of PMs involved.
~~~
bobbles
I'd just like to add that pointing out seemingly mundane things like these are
what allowed me to move from engineering into the consulting team at my
company (which is what I wanted).
It's worth testing the waters a few times. You'll know pretty quickly if they
value your input, and if not you can decide if you want to continue working
for them.
------
OhHeyItsE
Gah. Sorry, No. My experience has been the opposite.
In particular:
"You see lots of very good ideas (like proper source control)" \- you mean the
group that still uses VSS 4.0 on a network share b/c they're terrified of
moving their repo to Git (or even SVN)?
"You get to work with lots of clever people" \- no, you get to work with
people who work there for no reason other than they live close to the office
and have spent the last 14 years building an impenetrable fortress around
themselves.
"They have lots of perks" \- Yes, that one day a year I got to donate $5 to
cancer research so I could wear bluejeans (collared shirt still, of course)
makes it all worth it. I'll take my catered breakfasts, lunches, impromptu
beer runs, work-from-anywhere policy and unlimited vacation days, thank you.
"You are not going to be sent on that week-long training course on using
Oracle or have your part-time MBA fully-funded while at that boot-strapping
startup." \- Ok, starting to think this is a case of Poe's law in action...
Yeah startups (and small companies) come with their share of headaches, but
I'll take it any day over the soul-crushing, creativity-stifling cubicle hell
that is a big company.
~~~
jmduke
A few retorts (I work for Big Tech):
_" You see lots of very good ideas (like proper source control)" \- you mean
the group that still uses VSS 4.0 on a network share b/c they're terrified of
moving their repo to Git (or even SVN)?_
Unsurprisingly, companies that have millions of lines of code have to take
extra precautions.
_" You get to work with lots of clever people" \- no, you get to work with
people who work there for no reason other than they live close to the office
and have spent the last 14 years building an impenetrable fortress around
themselves._
This is a lazy dismissal.
In reality -- lots of smart people work at big companies and small companies.
That being said, big companies will invariably have more people dedicated to
research than startups. Microsoft Research alone has over a hundred people
just doing brilliant things.
_" They have lots of perks" \- Yes, that one day a year I got to donate $5 to
cancer research so I could wear bluejeans (collared shirt still, of course)
makes it all worth it. I'll take my catered breakfasts, lunches, impromptu
beer runs, work-from-anywhere policy and unlimited vacation days, thank you._
Again, this is lazy and untrue -- unless you want to say that Facebook and
Google's perk packages are about wearing bluejeans -- but I think playing the
perks game is silly anyway. Distilling things down to money (with some
exceptions, like WFH) is always the smarter way to go.
\---
Personally, I think the biggest difference working at a big company vs. a
small one is that of depth vs. breadth. At a startup, its not beyond the realm
of possibility to understand the majority of the code base: you'll be wearing
lots of different hats, doing lots of things at once. At a big company, the
organization is usually such that you'll spend your entire employment working
on one little niche -- this has its advantages (you become an expert at that
one thing) and disadvantages (you're only an expert at that one thing, after
all).
Personally, I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to just spend time at
both types of companies and see which one they like more.
~~~
OhHeyItsE
Fair enough. Of course, I am only drawing on my own anecdotal experience.
However, the big companies you mentioned above, Facebook, Google, and
Microsoft - I would propose that they are truly exceptional in "big company"
culture. Like one-in-a-million exceptional.
Perhaps my experience in each world was exceptional, but I have a feeling they
were rather typical.
~~~
sokoloff
Those three being "1 in a million" implies that there are three million big
companies.
------
kyllo
The main difference between working for a big company vs. a small company is
that the roles tend to be explicitly defined and specialized at a big company.
You don't need/get to wear as many hats as you will at a small company or a
startup. Basically, instead of being a jack-of-all-trades / "full stack"
developer, you might become an expert on one layer of a huge technology stack.
This can be good, or bad, or mixed. There is more formal training and you can
get deeper knowledge, but it's harder to get broad knowledge. It can be hard
to change roles or try new things. Generally, I think learning "full stack" is
preferable when you're young, and specializing might be better as you get a
little older.
~~~
DougWebb
I worked for a fairly big company (100+ employees pre-acquisition) and I was
able to develop a very broad role. I started as just a web UI developer, but
soon helped design the deployment architecture of our entire runtime system
and throughout my tenure I designed and implemented many of the services
within that architecture. That included everything from DB schemas, custom XML
databases, authentication servers, several mid-tier servers/services, as well
as always being the lead owner of the UI.
What helped, I think, is that I was part of a small team in that big company.
At peak we probably had about two dozen programmers, with 8-10 on my team.
That's not much bigger than the team I'm on now in a tiny company where I also
get to work end-to-end.
I disagree with specializing as you get older: there's going to be a tendency
to do that, but it's the last thing you want to do. Never stop learning, never
stop broadening your skillset. Sooner or later you're going to be a 40+ year
old developer looking for work, and if you're a specialist you're going to be
looking for a long time. As an experienced developer with a proven track
record of adaptability you'll be able to justify the salary that you're going
to want/need.
~~~
ramchip
IMHO 100 people isn't a big company at all... two dozen programmers can still
comfortably fit in a room and know eachother. My current company has 200k
employees, we spend a large amount of time just looking for whoever is
responsible for something...
~~~
DougWebb
When we got acquired we became much, much bigger. Depending on how you counted
divisions you could come up with anywhere between 50 to hundreds of
developers. A few of our projects involved developers coordinating across
those divisions, but when I left they were still fairly independent most of
the time.
------
obeleask
I think the article misses on all the biggest benefits I had working at a
BigCo:
1) You can actually get to work with a lot of companies. We acquired a ton of
companies over the years, and I'd often go work in those companies post
acquisition while it was still being run as a separate company. So these were
smaller companies that were generally successful - you got to see a lot of
different practices.
2) Once you are done learning a new job/role (or new company as above), you
can easily get the opportunity to move to around to different departments or
jobs. I personally did consulting, product management, engineering,
architecture, sales operations and strategy (sometimes for the mothership,
sometimes for the acquired companies).
3) It's not about smart people I wouldn't say - its about mentors. At a small
company, there are just less senior people around, and they are often more
focused on delivering. At a big company, more senior execs are really willing
and able to mentor the superstars in their teams that make them look good. You
combine that with moving about companies or departments, and you get a mix of
different mentors with different styles and strengths.
4) It won't apply to everyone, but I personally must have evaluated 50 - 100
companies for M&A or partnerships. I know exactly how to analyze a business,
where to look for skeletons, what works well/what doesn't, what a big company
will look for (and what are red flags) in an acquisition, when you can/can't
get a partnership and what you can use to your advantage in negotiations, etc.
Will all be extremely useful skills when you're on the other side of the
table.
Between the above things, you can learn so much. Stuff like the food/work
environmental is so irrelevant compared to this.
Don't get me wrong - I have no intentions of ever going back to a big company
again. But these were the big benefits for me.
~~~
lifeisstillgood
I think you were fortunate, perhaps exceptionally so, in your experiences -
few people will get to move around as much as that.
------
zwieback
I worked at startups before joining megacorp. I always thought I wouldn't like
working at a big company but everything the author said resonated with me. At
some point I can see myself going back to a smaller outfit but for now it's
great.
What the author doesn't mention and what I perceive as a great plus are the
tools and infrastructure I get to enjoy. We've got a lot test equipment,
machine shops and technicians a smaller shop couldn't afford.
On the other hand, I keep hearing managers say "we have to be nimble, like a
startup". I think that's exactly the wrong approach, big companies should
approach big problems that startups can't tackle.
------
snorkel
The biggest big company problem is the lack of focus slows everything down.
The ability to execute is there, but the focus is not. Start ups will attempt
to manage 20 products and services at once, and that feels like too much,
where big companies attempt to launch 200 new products, 80 new services, 40
special partnerships, 750 pet projects, 380 special events, 30 broad
initiatives, plus the CEO mandate of the week ... all while maintaining
support for 3100 legacy products and acquisitions ... the result is everyone
is very busy yet unfocused. Too much context switching at all levels, too many
works in progress get blocked on waiting for other teams to contribute their
part.
Second challenge of big companies: trying to keep up with all of the latest
project code names which change on a weekly basis.
------
robbyking
I guess it depends on your definition of "large." I worked at a large company
(20k+ employees), and each department was like its own dysfunctional 50 person
company: nothing got done, the technology was stale, and the perks were
minimal.
I work at a medium-sided company now (~200 employees according to Wikipedia),
and I love it. We have a great mix of technology and perks, and are all
treated really well. I worked at a handful of start-ups during the first tech
boom (and during the crash), and some were exceptional and some were meh.
I wouldn't rule out working at another start-up sometime in the future; it
would just be one of the many factors I consider.
~~~
AndyNemmity
It depends more on the company than the size.
I work for a company with over 60k employees and the technology is incredible,
and the people are interesting and super smart.
------
mikeash
Normally I'd just let a post like this go, but that word "need" really rubs me
the wrong way. No, I don't _need_ to work for a big company, ever. I haven't
yet, and don't ever plan to do so. Go away.
I learn an awful lot? Because I can't learn things otherwise? Come on.
I get to work with lots of clever people? No problem doing that now.
Large community? Ditto.
Perks? Uh... how does that translate to "need"?
You learn the art of politics. Great! What you're saying is, I _need_ to work
for a big company so I can learn something that's only useful when working for
a big company. What?
You have time to reflect? Why assume that all small companies are balls-to-
the-wall, 100-hour-week, venture-funded, Valley startups? Oh right, because
this post comes from a fantasy world where the only two kinds of companies are
gigantic Googles and tiny places filled to the brim with foosball tables, not
actually the Earth where I live.
You get a baseline? What is this I don't even.
~~~
product50
You haven't worked in a big company so not sure if you are even qualified to
comment on this post in such language. If you previously had the experience in
working for a bigger company and then mentioned these things - your comment
would have been a lot more credible.
You don't know know what you are missing till the time you experience it.
Dharmesh Shah is one of the more acclaimed entrepreneurs in the industry and I
do believe his words more than someone who doesn't even know what it feels
like working in an environment he is commenting on.
~~~
mikeash
It would be nice if you could tell me what I got wrong instead of just saying
I'm not "qualified" to comment. Maybe we just have different ideas of what the
word "need" means. I've managed to go three decades and change without this,
and don't see any obstacles to continuing. To me, that means I don't "need"
it. I don't need to work for a big company to see that.
I have no idea who Mr. Shah is and don't really care. I am criticizing the
article, not the author.
------
InclinedPlane
The biggest reason to work at a big company is that you can have an
opportunity to work on "stuff that matters" fairly quickly and you get
introduced to ways of dealing with processes around working with important
things, which can give you skills and confidence you might not otherwise
attain.
You're not going to acquire the experience of knowing what it's like to jump
headfirst into fixing a build break during the runup to release on a billion
dollar product unless you're working at a company that has a billion dollar
product, of course.
------
lifeisstillgood
Rubbish
Every CxO at every large company looks at startups as _the_ model to emulate -
lean, focused, full of feedback.
The benefits listed, every single one, are examples of overlooked, hidden or
inefficient practises by the large company - practises they try hard to
eliminate.
Do you think the CEO of Megacorp thinks that weeks "training" in Amsterdam was
a good use of his money? Do you think he realises there are good passionate
people trying to do good on no budget. If he found out he would either give
them a budget or fire their arses for working in the wrong things.
As for your time for reflection ... screw that, reflect at home.
No - big companies are trying very hard to stop being a source of "informal"
VC money, rest stops for the tired and weary or uncontrolled cash spenders.
One day they might succeed.
~~~
VladRussian2
i've recently spotted in the wild the latest mutation of the beast - "lean 6
sigma".
10 years ago we had "6 sigma" pandemic in the Valley, last 5 years - "lean"
and now ... behold their monsterous progeny.
~~~
arkades
As a current Lean Black Belt and 6Sigma Green Belt working in QI... I cannot
agree with you more.
Still, some people just can't look at a rubric to help you organize your
thoughts/analysis without dropping to their knees and worshiping it as the
second coming of Christ.
Lean, 6S, TQM, CQI, not a single one of them has conclusively been shown to
actually work long-term (post-6 months). But, on the bright side, it's a
fantastic job for getting to see every last corner of operations in an
organization. I'm using the position to learn the pain points of my preferred
field, before going into start-up land to address their needs.
------
zw123456
Over the years I have worked for both, much of what the author said is true,
there are many things that are great about working for a start up,I would be
preaching to the choir to mention them here. The one thing that got left out
is the access to resources. Some of the projects I have worked on, just due to
the scale, would have been impossible to do at a start up level, they just do
not have access to that kind of capital usually. There are some things that
are just too big to do that way.
------
ExpiredLink
8\. You work on really large applications and projects. This is completely
different from working on small projects.
------
johnbenwoo
You also learn what kinds of unmet needs there are in the marketplace. You
learn how decisions are made, who the gatekeepers are, how budgets are
allocated, and what frustrations exist with the current roster of vendors -
not to mention building your network and credibility in the industry. Want to
develop a product/service to sell to the ______ industry? Go work there for a
year or two first.
------
brianmcconnell
The author's point isn't that big companies are better, just that it's a good
experience to have. I worked for a public company post acquisition and it was
a great learning experience (some good lessons, some "don't do it this way"
lessons, but overall good). I wouldn't want to make a career working for big
companies, but I think you're better off as a business person if you end up in
one from time to time.
Now if you want some definitive advice on where not to work. Don't work for a
husband and wife operated company, ever. There you will encounter the worst
aspects of a lifestyle business combined with nepotism (especially the
unfireable but totally incompetent spouse).
Otherwise spend some time in a combination of startups and big companies. Both
have their strong points, and remember 90% of startups fail, so its not as if
startupland is nirvana.
~~~
edandersen
Never work for someone else's lifestyle business, ever.
------
steven777400
The biggest difference that appears to me is the lifetime and size of
applications. I work on applications that have existed for a decade (and
that's short, among our various application teams). Many of our applications
are hodge-podged mixes of legacy and more modern technology.
Whenever we "rewrite" an application that has outlived any possibility of
keeping it alive, we can't start from scratch: we have to continue meeting all
existing customer needs. So even from day one designs are often bloated and
frustrating. There is no "MVP".
Meanwhile at a startup you can "move fast and break things", and when an
application starts to get stale either it can go away, or you can switch to
another startup and begin fresh.
------
rhokstar
Had my own startup. Brought my lessons into a large company. Worked wonders as
a result and proud to work with them. To this day, still learning a lot.
------
paulbjensen
It's a valuable experience, but can be a very frustrating one to go through,
especially if the company has internal power battles and little appreciation
for the importance of technology.
~~~
AndyNemmity
Same can be said of startups, it's not really big company specific.
~~~
avelis
It can be said in general: If there is a lack of technical expertise or value
for any company, expect much frustration.
------
wf
> _" And you will get a range of ages - let's face it, most startups reckon
> you are past it if you are over 23."_
What? Not to disparage people my own age but that seems like hyperbole. Is
this the image most people have of startups? Fresh out of college at 23 (a few
months ago) I couldn't even find a decent startup (that I wanted to work at*)
that was offering positions to new grads.
------
nness
The thing to remember about "big companies" is that they don't just
spontaneously come into existence at that size; with x-thousand employees,
y-percentage of market share, and z-millions of revenue. They are grown, over
years or decades, because they've done something right.
Worth keeping in our minds when discussing such topics, before passing them
off as competitive or cultural failures.
------
johnkchow
Politics is one of the most valuable lessons learned at a big company.
Although I work in a small startup, all the management is from big companies.
Like any other startup, what's valued the most is getting stuff done. But I
learned that shouting at the top of your lungs or bottling your emotions while
being passive aggressive are the worst strategies in leading discussions.
I had to quickly learn how to present my argument in a non-confrontational
way, get individual buy-in (and perspective) from all stakeholders before any
meeting, and balance being transparent and forthright versus protecting your
interests (it really helps that your interests aligns with company goals!).
To sum it up, "politics" IMO has made me a more effective leader.
------
saintx
I sincerely recommend working at a large University as an alternative to this.
Instead of one large company it is a constellation of large companies. They
are almost always desperate for more good talent, and in many cases the
innovations you can bring to the table can benefit the entire community, not
just shareholders and customers. Otherwise, all of these points hold true.
------
mathattack
There are things to be learned at big companies, but it is very bad to say X
is right for everyone.
Big companies have been good for: \- Providing training \- Formalizing
feedback \- Introducing me to a lot of people
But they also: \- Stifle career progression ("We have you doing X, so we are
sorry that you can't help on Y") \- Are not nearly as safe as their size would
suggest \- Tolerate mediocrity
------
varelse
You'll _probably_ make more money at a large company than at a startup unless
you get in with single digit or better equity and you get lucky.
Other than that, I prefer the creative chaos of startups to the process and
tools over interactions and individuals of large companies (even the ones that
pretend they're _agile_ )...
------
Yhippa
I really grok this article. One thing that I found was that after learning to
navigate office politics I really didn't like it. I made it a point in
subsequent jobs to get a feel for what politics are like and if they seemed to
be too toxic to avoid the company.
------
iblaine
The point of the article is to say everyone should have experience working at
a large company to get perspective. The same thing can be said for small
startups. The debate over which is better is endless and childish.
------
elliottbell
You get to work with smart people? How is that unique to bigger companies? In
fact, I'd say it's more unique to smaller companies, that have to be more
selective with their hiring process.
------
SkittlesNTwix
This is exactly how people rationalize the story of how they became "trapped."
And learning politics is nothing to be proud of or to seek out.
------
slash-dot
Not a very credible source seeing that onstartups.com is run by a co-founder
of Hubspot, which is starting to become a rather big company.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Colleges Spending Millions to Deal with Sexual Misconduct Complaints - jseliger
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/us/colleges-beef-up-bureaucracies-to-deal-with-sexual-misconduct.html?_r=0
======
jseliger
This article reminds me of an essay I wrote: "When there are too many
administrators, which ones do _you_ fire?"
([http://jakeseliger.com/2015/10/16/when-there-are-too-many-
ad...](http://jakeseliger.com/2015/10/16/when-there-are-too-many-
administrators-which-ones-do-you-fire)). Everyone likes to decry the growth of
administrators, but very few of us (including me) have concrete plans about
which specific administrators we'd like to pare.
~~~
Turing_Machine
There are enough of them at many institutions that you could simply fire them
at random.
If research publications or course hours taught (i.e., the things that are the
actual purpose of the university) decrease after firing a particular
administrator, hire that one back.
(half-joking here, but only half...)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Clone software to start my own business. Is it ethical? (discussion) - SingAlong
http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.829048.17
======
keeptrying
Was google a clone of altavista? Was facebook a clone of friendster? Was the
ipod a clone of all other mp3 players? Is Mockingbird a clone of Balsamiq?
Just copying an idea is fine. And if you do any kind of market research, your
essentially figuring out which idea is the most profitable to copy.
Its finally all about execution.
~~~
Timothee
You're right, it's all in the way you execute. But starting off with the word
"clone" doesn't sound good.
I'd say Google was "a take" on search engines like Altavista, Facebook "a
take" on social networks like Friendster. They didn't start as "clones".
Maybe it's just a matter of phrasing but I was surprised by the number of
replies like "go ahead, clone it!". Being inspired by, revisiting... are words
that sound better to me. Between his decision on cloning and the outsourcing,
it doesn't bode well.
~~~
dkarl
"Clone" doesn't sound bad to me coming from a programmer. Any programmer who
is good enough to create an exact clone will find it psychologically
impossible to do so. There's no way a programmer could complete a clone
without thinking, "I can do better... they should have done it this way... it
will be much better and more successful if I change this part."
Maybe I'm wrong, though, and I'm probably naive. Are there any software clones
that aren't just inferior knock-offs, implemented by cheap labor hired by
someone who never intended to match the quality of the original? I wouldn't
count any product that beats the original in any meaningful way, such as
better support for a certain language.
------
michael_dorfman
Peldi is a class act.
He's wrong about one thing, though: "I wish you luck, but not too much" is
much older than Obama-- here's a usage from 1932:
[http://books.google.no/books?id=10wCi1LnRFoC&pg=PA15&...](http://books.google.no/books?id=10wCi1LnRFoC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=%22I+wish+you+luck,+but+not+too+much%22&source=bl&ots=xMn0FQ8dyu&sig=Wecm0-KvNcYlldtj6UTHZMcxuTE&hl=en&ei=xBiBTODzJ4jaOJC1yYcO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22I%20wish%20you%20luck%2C%20but%20not%20too%20much%22&f=false)
~~~
antidaily
Too bad you can't link directly to his comment.
~~~
cperciva
You mean like this?
[http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.829048.1...](http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.829048.17#discussTopic829090)
------
ujal
From the perspective of a customer I would go so far to say that it is
unethical not to copy it.
------
10ren
Wow, I think that's actually true (about followers making you the leader). I
had a competitor (following, though not cloning), and it freaked me out (like,
seriously), and for this reason (and others) I ended up stepping back somewhat
from the space. But looking back... my best sales were from that period.
I also had liked being the one and only - but that's ego, not business.
------
Zak
Making an exact (more or less) clone of a successful product isn't especially
unethical to my way of thinking, but it is _stupid_. The original product has
a "head start" in the marketplace and you're almost certainly going to be
playing catch-up in terms of market share and (here's the less part of "more
or less") features.
What does make sense is a near-clone with a killer feature added. Google was
like Altavista, but with results that are actually useful. reddit was just
like delicious/popular, but with voting. Myspace was just like Friendster, but
with uptime. Cheap/free when the competition is expensive usually counts as a
killer feature, but isn't always the most effective way to make a profit.
~~~
dman
I mostly agree with you but one small caveat - most companies do a relatively
poor job of extracting economic value from their products on a global basis.
So in this case if the OP is willing to work the Chinese local market much
harder than Balsamiq can then the whole endeavour might actually be
worthwhile. In short you dont have to beat the global maxima of product
providers, just the local maxima.
~~~
Zak
Localization is very much a killer feature. Being just like Google[0] but with
a China-centric instead of US-centric worldview seems to be working great for
Baidu.
[0] In terms of core-product, in the ways that matter to most users
------
jon_hendry
From the looks of it, he wants to clone Balsamiq not because he thinks he can
do the concept better, or because he has a different take on it, or because
he's inspired by that sort of functionality, but because they say they make a
lot of money.
That's all.
He basically wants to ride on their coattails, and presumably sell a cheaper
knockoff.
Which is, I think, rather sleazy.
~~~
jamesbritt
"Which is, I think, rather sleazy."
Why, exactly?
~~~
jamesbritt
To whomever modded me down: Are you capable of expressing an informed answer
to a serious question, or is it that you just get dumbstruck at the prospect
of explaining something you'd rather just take as a given?
The idea that plain copying for the sake of making a cheaper knockoff is
somehow wrong or sleazy is prevalent in many places, but never well
articulated. It seems entirely a cultural thing, something that bothers some
people because that's all they've known.
If there's a deeper reason, I'd like to know what it is.
------
Revisor
On a side note: The guy is outsourcing his core activity - the actual
development of the product. That can't end well.
~~~
akkartik
Part of the discussion is about whether the core activity is marketing. That's
an interesting question.
------
wallflower
Very good discussion. Is it software or marketing or the people who wrote it
or the community they have grown? The software is Balsamiq btw.
~~~
lincolnq
Wow! I had a really strange experience there. I read the first post, thought
to myself "Wow, this is a terrible troll, the rest of the comments can't be
worthwhile", and hit Back. ("make use of open source projects, which is
immoral" was the breaking point for me to decide it was a troll).
Then I came back to HN to complain about the troll, read your comment and the
others here, and promptly turned around and went over to the site again to
actually read the comments. And it's true! It was a very good discussion.
My troll filter isn't very sensitive -- I usually give people the benefit of
the doubt -- but it unambiguously went off here.
------
dpcan
If he clones, that's one thing. If he competes, that's another.
------
mkramlich
This is one consequence risked when an ISV is very public and explicit about
how much money they make. The chance is always non-zero, but surely it is
increased if you reveal numbers in public and they are large.
That said, I love Balsamiq and appreciate most everything he has shared with
the public. And I think what this Chinese guy is proposing is scummy, at least
in how he treats it.
------
goodgoblin
My view is its similar to opening a laundromat across the street from an
existing laundromat. Is it unethical? Wrong question. Would it piss you off if
you owned the other laundromat? Yes. Golden Rule applies. On the internet any
website is right across the street from any other.
------
dooshydoo
I don’t understand the ambivalence for stealing. If you’ve ever tried to teach
someone something, you know it’s impossible to get them to where you are.
Maybe worse, maybe better, but never your equivalent. And if it's worse, no
worries; if it’s better, it fuels your own development.
------
jpmc
Why reinvent the wheel? If you can find a foundation from which to build a
better service/app/mousetrap why not? Consider utilizing a clone a part of
natural software evolution. Spend more of your time and effort on making it
better than just making it.
------
known
"Imitation is the sincerest of flattery." --Charles Caleb Colton
~~~
josefresco
I see your quote and raise it...
"Good artists copy great artists steal" - Pablo Picasso
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
50 years after Apollo, conspiracy theorists are still howling at the ‘moon hoax’ - pseudolus
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/50-years-after-apollo-conspiracy-theorists-are-still-howling-at-the-moon-hoax/2019/05/23/ca5b4a3a-700e-11e9-9f06-5fc2ee80027a_story.html
======
phakding
There always will be certain population that believes in conspiracy theories,
magic, God and angels, trickle down economy, flat Earth so on and so forth.
There needs an invention in medicine to make these people rational.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Washington State AG Bob Ferguson Sues Uber Over Data Breach - finnn
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/11/28/25591224/washington-state-ag-bob-ferguson-sues-uber-over-data-breach
======
finnn
Original source (that i should have linked... mods wanna gimme a hand?):
[http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-ferguson-
files-m...](http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-ferguson-files-multi-
million-dollar-lawsuit-against-uber-failing-report)
Actual text of the complaint:
[https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Ano...](https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Another/News/Press_Releases/2017_11_28Complaint.pdf)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Active Circles invite friends with snaps - rush86999
Hi, my name is Rushi and I launched Active Circles.
The idea behind Active Circles is simple to gather a crowd and use the FOMO effect to pull it off.<p>So why did I build this? I have a whole article on it on medium: <a href="https://medium.com/@rush86999/what-facebook-and-gambling-have-in-common-8fff22c46246" rel="nofollow">https://medium.com/@rush86999/what-facebook-and-gambling-hav...</a><p>long version short: I think social networks are becoming too unhealthy for everyone due to their effects on the reward system of our brains. I am a family doctor and I see that in young adults and how it's ruining our social fabric.<p>here's what I came up with in response<p>Planning for a new party, need friends for a quick yoga session. How about going for a run? Active Circles allows you to give a shout out to your close friends all at the same time. Have you ever noticed that sometimes that’s not enough? A picture may be worth a thousand words but more than that it creates a great story to tell and a great FOMO effect. Sometimes enough to give someone an extra little nudge to get up and get going to come over to whatever you are doing.<p>This is the premise for Active Circles. A simple FOMO effect to invite friends over and create huge crowds! If more common friends are present at the same place then stronger the FOMO effect.<p>What can I do with it?<p>Anything that needs gathering a crowd- a huge party, yoga session, play a sport, cheer for an event.<p>You can show off your snaps to friends' friends, even your school or workplace as long as you have an authenticated email address.<p>So have fun and let me know how I can make it better! (Only Available in North America for now)<p><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/active-circles/id1348466506?mt=8&app=itunes&ign-mpt=uo%3D4&ref=producthunt" rel="nofollow">https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/active-circles/id1348466506?...</a>
======
minimaxir
Launch HN is only for YC startups. You may want to do a Show HN instead.
~~~
rush86999
how do i delete this?
~~~
sctb
We've updated the title, thanks for getting in touch!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Game developers must avoid the ‘wage-slave’ attitude - underscoremark
http://venturebeat.com/2016/04/16/game-developers-must-avoid-the-wage-slave-attitude/
======
underscoremark
Just so it's clear, I think this guy is out to lunch:
> "Don’t be in the game industry if you can’t love all 80 hours/week of it —
> you’re taking a job from somebody who would really value it."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Mapping out dev grants in Ethereum and beyond - gabriellemic
https://medium.com/ecf-review/mapping-out-grants-in-ethereum-and-beyond-41394b7ca3ba
======
gabriellemic
Have more dev grant programs to refer besides the ones included here? Send
them on over:
[https://ecfund.typeform.com/to/YaakUT](https://ecfund.typeform.com/to/YaakUT)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections - vixen99
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feart.2019.00223/full
======
vixen99
Author concludes:
"The unavoidable conclusion is that a temperature signal from anthropogenic
CO2 emissions (if any) cannot have been, nor presently can be, evidenced in
climate observables."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The First Digg Developer Dispels the Myths Surrounding Digg & Startups in General - NewWorldOrder
http://blog.mixergy.com/pr-lies-destroy-your-understanding-of-how-business-really-works-owen-byrne-digg/
======
jonny_noog
_Owen said: It’s a bit of a myth that it’s all young coders. There actually
lots of people in their late 30s and their 40s. I’ve been a programmer for 25
years and I’ve actually worked hard to keep up with new technology._
That's quite encouraging. Sometimes I think one could be forgiven for getting
the impression that if you're over 25 and you haven't made it in start-up
land, then you may as well quit.
~~~
ojbyrne
As I believe I said in the interview, the second developer we hired at digg
was older than me (I was 45 at the time we hired him).
~~~
edwardog
I was really happy to hear you say that when we met at your TravelPod
presentation; I wish there was more focus on older hackers – sure gives me
something to look forward to.
-Edward from Shopify (around the corner from you guys)
------
breck
I had assumed that Owen was in his 20's. Whoops. Very cool.
~~~
ojbyrne
If you can figure out a way to make me be in my twenties, you can have all my
digg shares. ;-)
~~~
by
Just consider it as hexadecimal.
~~~
ojbyrne
Unfortunately as of my last birthday that wouldn't work either. 0x30 :-(
~~~
eugenejen
Then we just adopt base 24 numeral system. Will you give me your digg share?
~~~
ojbyrne
Just get the world to accept base 24 for common use.
~~~
benmathes
You'll die a little after 30, though.
------
newy
Great hearing directly from you Owen, too bad the interview style was kind of
distracting. The interviewer seemed to want to tell the story more than
letting you narrate and kept beating the dead horse on certain points :)
------
nickb
Excellent interview! Congrats Owen.
------
delano
That's a very candid interview Owen, thanks (I'm assuming you'll be reading
the comments!).
~~~
ojbyrne
Of course. Wondering if there will be a backlash. I tried not to take more
credit than was really due me and also tried to avoid coming off bitter
despite the bait waived in front of me. I'm clearly better off because of
digg, even if not comparatively to some others involved. An argument could be
made that I'm better off than a couple of different people involved early on,
but if I had my way, they would also have seen more.
~~~
terpua
You'll now have to change your HN profile from the "built digg for $10/hour"
to "$20/hour + equity" :)
------
ojbyrne
The impact of this story amazes me, and reinforces one point rather well.
I lived in San Francisco for 2+ years, and would tell the exact same story to
anyone who would listen. Nobody ever bothered to listen.
It took someone from Southern California to actually get the story out there,
because the PR culture in Norcal is so busy sucking up to power that they
neglect to ever look for anything resembling the truth. Silicon Valley would
be much better off if Techcrunch, Mashable, PaidContent, and every other PR
blog there went out of business tomorrow.
------
iamelgringo
Glad to hear that your story is getting a little more press, Owen. You deserve
it.
------
kyro
Owen, a quick question. Who is Eli? I recall several times Kevin saying that
he hired a guy named Eli from elance to do some personal web stuff for him,
and then hired him to do Digg.
~~~
ojbyrne
Eli White was the 3rd developer we hired. Kevin must have been confused
because I'm pretty sure Eli never participated in elance.
------
known
Somebody please create Wikipedia entry for Owen.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Owen+Byrn...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Owen+Byrne&sourceid=Mozilla-
search)
------
abl
Owen,
It would be very educational to hear you go into the details of the
liquidation deal that you would prefer and recommend to people joining a new
startup. Or, if you could recommend some reading material on the subject?
------
Technophilis
This description <http://www.crunchbase.com/person/owen-byrne> doesn't sound
like the real story =)
~~~
AndrewWarner
I edited that after our interview. I guess they didn't accept my edits.
Strange. They usually take my post-interview edits. Maybe they need more time
to a approve it.
------
vaksel
good interview, but I don't recommend watching it, just listen. The audio is
horribly out of sync.
The "your ip" website idea, just goes to show you, that digg was a fluke.
~~~
ojbyrne
Fluke isn't really fair. Yes there was luck, but once that initial luck
happened there was a lot of hard work by Kevin, me, and all the early
employees to build upon it.
~~~
scotth
But hard work very often results in nothing. I'm sure many on this site can
attest to that.
That considered, you're more likely to get lucky if you work hard.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Who is making the most awesome dumb phones? - 0xdeadbeefbabe
======
mtmail
Simvalley, which is probably just one brand name of many for the same Chinese
manufacturer, has a phone which you can also use as walkie-talkie. Quadband,
dual SIM, waterresistent, rugged, 2 week standby. Should be ideal for
construction work, hiking, festivals or just areas with limited cell coverage.
------
mpoloton
I have no idea but here is a good read regarding dumb phones
[http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040](http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040)
------
stephancoral
Lekki has some awesome phones. [http://lekki.fr/fr/40--
original-](http://lekki.fr/fr/40--original-)
Old Ericssons, Siemens, Nokia, and Motorola - including this beautiful rainbow
StarTac: [http://lekki.fr/fr/mobile/71-startac-
rainbow.html#&panel1-1](http://lekki.fr/fr/mobile/71-startac-
rainbow.html#&panel1-1)
------
runjake
You can still find new-in-box Nokia Series 40 phones, sometimes in lots, on
eBay. That might be your best bet.
------
jqm
Samsung AT&T go phone. [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/at-t-gophone-
samsung-a157-no-con...](http://www.bestbuy.com/site/at-t-gophone-
samsung-a157-no-contract-cell-phone-black/5568676.p?id=1218663132502)
$10 to purchase. Throw it away, drop it in the toilet... as long as you can
get the sim, no problem. And if, like me, you don't make a lot of cell calls
(I have internet phone at home), around $10 a month in prepaid airtime.
Make sure you ask to have the mobile browser turned off because you
"accidentally" can get a bunch of charges by the conveniently placed button
that starts the browser.
There are different definitions of awesome, but around $150 a year for home
and cell service with two phones is mine.
------
blackZero
Apple
~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
I would never downvote such a great comment, sorry.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New cheap VPS provider, based in Sweden - klrr
https://cloudroyale.se/
======
p4bl0
If I understand correctly this is a VPS offer which is $22/month. It's not
even cheap _at all_. I have a real dedicated server for less than that. Also,
their offer is not available outside of Sweden. And they don't have an English
version of the website. This is not news, it's advertisement, and it's badly
targeted. Flagged.
------
dave1010uk
Is this newsworthy? More cheap VPS providers here if you're interested:
[http://www.lowendbox.com/](http://www.lowendbox.com/)
~~~
pella
or [http://serverbear.com/compare/vps](http://serverbear.com/compare/vps)
------
egeozcan
Looks like a good offer. My Swedish is a bit rusty, though. They wouldn't
happen to have an English or a German site, would they?
~~~
jgabor
Thanks! Glad to hear you like the offer.
Unfortunately we don't have a English or German site yet. But we do plan to
launch our English site later this year. I hope we'll see you then! :)
/Jonathan Gabor, Product Manager at Cloud Royale
~~~
SingAlong
Out of curiosity, what does the "tim" in "0.18 kr/tim" translate to in
English?
I'm just trying to calculate how much it amounts to per month.
~~~
hising
It is price per hour in SEK. 0.18 SEK per hour is 129 SEK per month, which
translates to ~ $19 per month in USD with the current exchange rate (according
to '129,6 sek to usd' in Google)
------
Matti
It's not immediately obvious but they are an off-shoot of FS Data -- a fairly
well-known (and old) Swedish hosting provider. It is in other words unlikely
to be a "fly-by operation" in a niche where new companies pop-up very
frequently.
------
iddqd
I have a really hard time taking hosting providers that claim 100% uptime
seriously.
------
paskakapu
Do you support NetBSD?
~~~
jgabor
Unfortunately no. But if the demand is there, we will definitely consider it.
And I know it's not exactly the same, but FreeBSD is on it's way…
------
belorn
Do they have IPv6?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Create Mock API Endpoints in a Few Seconds - pitchinnate
https://testapi.io
======
AllenMay
Great resource for those building with EmberJS, ReactJS or other frontend
frameworks!
------
jakeboyles
Great idea and service!
------
cdilling
THIS IS AWESOME!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Web Developer Goes Native (with Android) - renaebair
http://intridea.com/2010/9/13/a-web-developer-goes-native-with-android
======
briancooley
_I know that it's the go-to solution for small, simple storage, but why on
earth do mobile platforms have schema-driven data stores by default?_
There are a few other easy ways to store data[1] on Android. For example, you
could use SharedPreferences for lightweight data. You could write anything
that implements the Serializable interface to a file on internal or external
storage. I don't know much about Redis, but if all you want to do is persist a
key-value store, create a HashMap in your app and write to and read from disk.
You can do something similar with an NSDictionary or NSArray in iOS. [2]
[1] [http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-
storage....](http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html)
[2]
[http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/...](http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Classes/NSDictionary_Class/Reference/Reference.html)
(see initWithContentsOfFile: and writeToFile:atomically:)
~~~
mbleigh
I am aware of SharedPreferences, and serialization is certainly an option, but
ultimately these don't solve the main problem I've experienced. Serialization
requires a lot of manual work and it may not scale particularly well for
middle-weight and up. I just think that the kinds of data stored in mobile
applications lend themselves more to some of the various NoSQL patterns than
something like SQLite.
~~~
asher
Can't you treat SQLite as a key-value store? Create a table with two columns:
key and value. Blobs can be pretty big.
Seems to me that a relational DB can easily impersonate a hash, but not vice
versa.
------
hvs
_Since I'm ultimately more interested in ideas and solving the big-picture
puzzles of applications than the low-level implementation details, web is
still the place to be for me (for now)._
I'm not sure how to respond to this, but it strikes me as incredibly naive.
~~~
mbleigh
How so? Web frameworks offer the luxury of interpreted, high level languages
and frameworks that abstract away many of the implementation details and let a
developer concentrate on the bigger picture. I think mobile will get there
someday, too, but it's not there yet.
------
mahmud
Wondering why Redis isn't the default builtin storage on Android is just a
non-engineer question, and the only blemish in a fairly accurate article.
~~~
mbleigh
I don't mean specifically Redis, the in-memory key-value store. Obviously
mobile has huge restrictions on memory that would make this difficult and
unwieldy. I mean more the approach of Redis than the implementation. Storing
simple data structures in a quickly retrievable format without the need for
up-front configuration and schema creation.
~~~
mahmud
Every Unix has shipped with dbm since 1979. Since then you have BerkeleyDB,
and most recently there has been TokyoCabinet.
However, Sqlite is clean, fast, small, well tested and just plain solid.
Android standardized on it for in-device relational store because more
applications can benefit from it. If it's not good enough for your purposes,
you have the whole gamut of Java serialization libraries to chose from.
~~~
Someone
"Android standardized on it for in-device relational store because more
applications can benefit from it."
They also have to supply some SQL store in order to support HTML5 databases.
SQLite then is a natural choice; it has a compatible license, is small enough
for mobile use, and is solid. Since it is solid, it makes sense to include it
in the public API.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is it possible to make money off of advertisements if your primary audience are techies? - hashtable
I am planning on starting a website primarily aimed at techies. The problem is that techies are very unlikely to click on ads and use AdBlock, further lowering the probability. Is it possible to make money off of advertisements if your primary audience are techies?
======
iamdave
Honestly, I find the subject matter of the ad more relevant than the presence
of an ad. Partner up with good sites like New Egg or Tiger Direct for ads and
you're bound to get some good numbers. Stick with Google AdSense (and that's
not to say anything negative about AdSense) and you wont see near the same
numbers mostly because
1\. Everyone recognizes AdSense and it doesn't really stand apart from content
(this reflects on how effectively and tactfully place your ad)
2\. More common is it becoming to see Ads on AdSense that point to TLD's that
display no relevant information, or useful data, so people automously ignore
them.
Advertisements are all about the audience, much less the product. Get the
right ads, and you'll see results even with the techie crowd who are more
familiar with blatantly bad advertisements.
~~~
hashtable
That's very interesting, thank you. But how does one go about partnering up
with specific sites like New Egg or Tiger Direct?
~~~
rrival
Become a publisher at <http://www.cj.com/> for New Egg. Become a LinkShare
affiliate for TigerDirect <http://www.linkshare.com/>
------
staunch
If you get to a decent size you can get sponsorship from companies and sell
your own ads. They'll just be images/text on your site with a link to their
site, so you can avoid hitting adblock default list. If the the ads are for
good products people might even appreciate them.
~~~
PStamatiou
I did/do that and while I can sell small ad spots for a good amount (enough to
pay rent at times) it is _very_ hard to find companies willing to advertise a
single-author blog like mine.
------
pg
Very much so: job ads.
~~~
PStamatiou
_cough_ snaptalent..
------
tjr
Possible? Sure. I've put up web pages directed toward programmers, and have
gotten ad clicks.
But you'll probably find a greater click-through rate writing on other topics.
------
ericb
You are right in regards to adsense. Adsense can work as a business model, but
only at a MUCH larger scale than most realize. When you factor in natural ad-
aversion, it raises the the bar for success to a number you will be unlikely
to achieve without a mainstream site.
That said, job ads are a very cool approach. They pay more and in-the-know
managers are willing to pay a premium for elite developers.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A New Way to Promote Your App on Google Play - bjonathan
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2015/02/a-new-way-to-promote-your-app-on-google.html
======
Someone1234
While I don't care either way if this exists or not, I do worry that this will
further result in Google ignoring the "discoverability" problem in the Google
Play app store.
Because if they improve discoverability for free, then who will buy their
adverts? The worse the store is at pointing you at the correct apps, the more
ads people will buy (so less work for them and more $$$, win/win).
It isn't helped by how large of a stranglehold Google has gained on the
Android ecosystem. Amazon is the next largest, but still tiny by comparison.
Piracy might outnumber Amazon frankly.
~~~
username223
I don't own an Android phone, but I'm surprised that Google Play has lousy
search. I expect the Apple App Store to have useless search, because Apple
isn't a search company, but I'd figure Google had that part solved. This
sounds like at least perverse incentives, and possibly a plain old shake-down:
making their search worse, and/or burying specific results, directly makes
them money. It reminds me of the bad old days of "portals," before someone
made an unbiased, fast search engine called "Google."
~~~
speeder
I make apps for Android and iOS, and made my first release 2 or 3 years ago
(don't remember the precise date).
Back then, iOS search was purely utter crap, finding totally unrelated things
(including notoriously if you searched google maps, you would not find it...
apple hardcoded the search for google maps to return google maps after all the
internet poking fun at them).
And Android search was awesome, some keyword tweaking and we would soar in
searches that were relevant to us (ie: people really looking for the sort of
product we offer).
Then iOS made the first "discoverability improvement" change that pissed us
off... they changed the interface so that instead of showing a list of
results, it started to show more detailed results, but much less per page
(back then some devices showed only 2 results per page depending on the
orientation)
meaning that for us that were in position 50 in searches, we went from being
on the fifth "finger slide" of the user, to be on the 200, 300... meaning our
users on iOS sunk, fast.
Still, Android was our saviour then... so we stuck with Android (we still make
iOS stuff ,but don't expect much from it).
Then it was google turn do do things, they started to "improve" their search,
they "improved" so much, that now searching our company name (that is very
unique), sometimes show competitors apps in first place instead.
Searching the exact name of our apps frequently don't work anymore either
(back "then", 2 years ago, it searching for another app name of yours was a
API usage example when you wanted to link from one app to another).
So... yep, both Google and Apple stealthly make discoverability worse, instead
of better.
Now most of our income comes from third-party stores, not iTunes or Google
Play
~~~
dazzla
If you don't mind sharing which 3rd party stores do you have success with? I
have tried Amazon with pretty much no success so I've assumed if they can't do
it no one can.
~~~
speeder
Amazon is our WORST store.
We are in Samsung store (roughly same performacne as google play), several
carrier stores (separated they are tiny, summed they are a good income), and
we have some deals with some startups that are trying new app distribution
methods, many of those startups also have deals with carriers, so we are in
some carriers twice.
Anyway, our income right now looks like as if it came from dumbphone era: most
of it coming from carriers, directly or indirectly.
Also we are in Yandex store, nothing impressive in terms of revenue, but
stupid easy to get into (they purpusefully allow use of google play APIs, and
upload methods, and whatnot... if you ever worked with google play, uploading
to Yandex is VERY easy).
EDIT: Making things clearer on Amazon, they are REALLY the worst, sometimes
months go by without even a single free download.
~~~
benologist
[http://i.imgur.com/le8aRmB.png](http://i.imgur.com/le8aRmB.png)
I remember finding your games here on HN quite some time ago, my 3 year old
can now do your animated jigsaws herself and currently loves the game with the
russian dolls. My email in my profile is also my Skype if you want to chat,
maybe we can help each other out - all my downloads are for traditional
jigsaws and an older audience, with children and grandchildren.
------
OMGBrewmaster
Allowing developers to pay for promoted placement is a terrible idea for
Google Play's users, for app developers and for Google. Google Play users will
now see more exploitative apps that are visible in search results not because
they have earned high ratings from users or have a low uninstall rate, but
because they are able to extract more money from each user to pay for their
placement. App developers with quality products -- especially those with small
development studios like my own -- will be put at a further disadvantage from
the likes of King.com, Supercell and Zynga, whose high ARPU can justify this
sort of promotion. And while Google will initially be able to extract more
cash from the app economy than the 30% it already does, by diluting the value
of Google Play search results for their users and by incentivizing developers
to make exploitative rather than quality products, mobile device owners will
become more motivated to migrate to other app stores and possibly other
platforms.
I wish that Google would concentrate on its core strength and develop a search
system for apps that directs its users to what they will appreciate and enjoy
rather than what will cost them the most money, and that would encourage
developers to aim for quality rather than exploitation.
~~~
ncza
Google's core strength was search but in recent years I felt it got worse and
worse for the benefit of Google's other strength: Advertising.
~~~
dismal2
actually, its always been about advertising!
------
warrenmiller
Another way for Google to tax developers:
Indie developer A has the top search result for "crazy panda game" in google
play, Developer B pays to get the top sponsored result, Developer A is forced
to pay up to get the spot back.
This sucks.
------
krschultz
This is a huge change. I personally am very excited about it. At the moment if
you want to drive installs to a mobile app, the primary channel is Facebook.
It's hard to reach customers any other way. I have worked on apps with a
relatively high customer LTV, and we could afford to pay for something like
this, but there was no way to do it.
Generally speaking I think it will be good for consumers in the long run as
well. This will surface the apps that are making money (which is in some way a
proxy for providing value, usually) faster than the apps that are simply most
popular.
~~~
nothrabannosir
I don't have a degree in economics and I never tried my hand at advertising,
so please forgive my ignorance. To my uneducated ears, what you just said
sounds like:
"Advertisements are a good thing because they help surface the products that
are making money (which is in some way a proxy for providing value, usually)
faster than the products that are simply most popular."
If I think of any advertisement I see, ever, then value has absolutely nothing
to do with it. Axe, Jack Daniel's, any laundry detergent, McDonald's, cars.
In fact, most advertisements themselves stopped trying to pretend to be
"better". Of that list, only laundry detergents talk about how they are better
than competitors. Which is still complete bollocks, of course.
Since when do ads have _anything_ to do with the value of the product? How
would that be any different for apps?
I'm not trying to be coy, I seriously don't understand what you said.
~~~
krschultz
Engineers love to hate it, but sales & marketing matters. It works. Making a
product, throwing it up on the web and walking away doesn't work. I'm not
going to argue that point, it's a fact. For more on that, read Peter Theil's 0
to 1, or anything by patio11, or listen to the podcast Startups for the Rest
of Us, or any one of a dozen other sources from people that have made money in
the space.
If you agree with that, then my argument is that over the long term, the
amount of money a company can spend on marketing is related to the amount of
money they make per customer. If you sell a $1 product, you can not afford ads
that cost $3 per conversion. If you sell a $30,000 product, you can afford
pretty expensive ads. Of course n the short term this can get skewed. A
company can dump money into ads in an unsustainable way, but that always seems
to correct itself (see: Fab).
Given that a product is generally priced to some extent related to its value,
the higher value products will have higher revenue per user, which will allow
them to bid more for advertising.
That means we are more likely to see these ads bought by companies that make
decent money on their apps. I'd love to see more high quality apps at the top
of the listings, and I'd also love to be able to promote my (hopefully) high
LTV apps at the top of the listings.
~~~
Iftheshoefits
You are assuming that price and value are positively correlated. They aren't
necessarily. Anecdotally I find price has little to do with value in the App
marketplace.
Buying users, which is in fact what sales and marketing is for indirectly does
not mean the marketed product is provides more value nor does it mean the app,
in this case, is performing better. All it means is the marketed product has
backers willing to spend more on marketing.
~~~
bduerst
>Anecdotally I find price has little to do with value in the App marketplace.
I think this is what they're getting at, or at least what took from it:
Valuable apps are incorrectly priced.
I'm being a devils advocate by saying this, but the paid promotion could
actually force apps to start charging relative to their value, rather than
everyone charging at a flat $0.99. This would put pressure on and help sort
out apps that are not very valuable, while giving valuable apps a mechanism to
rise to the top.
Of course, this all breaks with apps that monetize through in-app purchases,
and I honestly believe there needs to be a seperate marketplace for those
Skinner boxes.
------
Nemisis7654
I'm not quite sure how much I like this. I can see my search results getting
populated with a bunch of apps that I don't want, like "Game of War". This
will be interesting to see how this plays out.
~~~
Navarr
I'm personally hoping they target more generic keywords like genres of game or
coupon or hotels or stuff like that. I'd be very annoyed if they let
advertisers target specific app names like "Facebook", "Twitter", or my own
app's very specific name (as long as it isn't generic)
~~~
mccr8
Why wouldn't they? As somebody pointed out elsewhere, ads on various scummy
sites show up if you search for "Firefox" and other things on regular Google
search. I'd guess people who are searching for something specific are more
likely to actually make a purchase or whatever, so they'd be more valuable to
Google.
------
imaginenore
What Google needs to do is create a proper search engine for the apps. Filters
should include:
* Age of the app
* Average rating
* Eliminate publishers X, Y, Z
* Number of installs/downloads
* Paid / in-app purchases / ad-supported / completely free
* Size in MB (sometimes my connection sucks and I want to find a small game)
* Adult content
* Category of the app (game / office / tool / etc)
------
chaqke
A New Way for Google to accept your money in an auction for placement slots
(that displace actual search positions).
Obviously a winning move for google, but not really a win for anybody else
(besides people trying to arbitrage ads for these new, search-result-
displacing slots).
------
jdalgetty
Developers are already paying to get installs, Google wants another piece of
the pie.
------
dsirijus
This is obviously Google trying to grab a piece of advertising budgets of apps
and impact of this on "discoverability* will remain to be seen as emergent
property later on. Definitely not the primary driver behind this feature.
However, before we start booing Google...
Facebook already holds unarguably the biggest part of this already, and Google
heading closer to the center of that particular arena will likely result in a
net positive for publishers.
My guess for would be that this will push Facebook little by little to
specialize in iOS ad-mongering.
~~~
jbigelow76
_Google heading closer to the center of that particular arena will likely
result in a net positive for publishers._
How so? Pay to Play (the marketing slogan for this initiative practically
writes itself) seems a net negative to me. Searching for a particular game?
Prepare to see nothing but Zynga, King and whatever other well capitalized
companies can afford to dominate the top of the lists. Google will have even
less incentive to fix natural discoverability.
Comparing Facebook's mobile ad channel (in content) to Google's mobile ad
channel (in SERPs) is like more akin to comparing AdSense to AdWords. We won't
see Google take a share of the pie from Facebook, we'll probably just see the
pie get bigger as Google makes more ad inventory available.
------
discreditable
Will these promoted apps be as dangerous as websites promoted by browser
search? I got this one just now [1]. Virustotal for "Firefox" from that site
[2].
1\. [https://i.imgur.com/JDY7ptq.png](https://i.imgur.com/JDY7ptq.png)
2\.
[https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/4de57439b8fe09b90440b8e82...](https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/4de57439b8fe09b90440b8e829f880b2875a93645205627aa1102005cb5a322a/analysis/1424960473/)
------
pyamparala
I might be missing something here but why is everybody hating on Google for
this? How is this different from having sponsored results in the search
results on Google? I feel this is great for a number of reasons:
1\. This allows apps which are new to not just rely on something unreliable as
App store optimization to get downloads. 2\. This will force app developers to
think about monetization more seriously and possibly even get rid of free apps
culture. 3\. You can get users at the point of their query. Facebook gets you
passive users. For example on FB you might need to reach 100 people to find
one person who has a problem solved by your app, but using this you can find
the exact people looking for apps which solve the problem your app is about.
4\. The argument about Zynga and King owning the sponsored are false. It is
like saying Microsoft, Twitter and Facebook are going to own the search
results on Google. 5\. Improvement in organic search doesn't need to happen
without starting sponsored results.
~~~
pyamparala
BTW forgot to add this might also mean that Google will open up the search
info on Play Store just like they did for Google search to enable advertisers
to choose keywords more intelligently. This alone will probably make up for
any other issues people have related to this new initiative.
------
diltonm
"In fact, in the past year, we paid more than $7 billion to developers
distributing apps and games on Google Play."
Do they mean when I buy someone's app and send them my money that they are
taking the credit for "paying" the developer? If so then that's wrong. My bank
doesn't pay my bills. I pay my bills using my bank's system.
~~~
blfr
They did a little more than a bank. They built Android and its marketplace
rather than just serve as an intermediary in the payment process.
~~~
diltonm
That's true and very admirable but not what I was objecting to. It's this line
that I find objectionable:
"we paid more than $7 billion to developers"
No, the Marketplace enabled $7 billion in transactions between the customers
and the developers, that would have been a more correct way to state it.
------
wldcordeiro
The biggest improvement they could make is having the Apps category NOT
include games. Discovering useful and/or interesting apps is so damn hard
because of games being included.
------
mss6989
This is a great example of Google doing what Google does best. With one slot
gone, app publishers will need to focus on an ASO much more. SEO remains one
of the most effective ways of marketing on web, and so too will ASO be in the
app marketplace.
------
droidist2
My gripe with this is that it further monopolizes the ad network market. On
the web AdSense and AdWords are king. At least on mobile we have several
choices, of which AdMob isn't even the best. I guess Google will be king of
this arena too.
------
fpgeek
If it were anyone else, I'd say this was pretty dubious, but Google knows
better than anyone else how to make search ads work for everyone so... we'll
see.
~~~
abalos
I agree - hopefully this addresses the issue of giving newer applications
visibility. However, this definitely needs to be implemented tactfully. Google
is probably the best bet for getting something like this to work.
------
ape4
Not crazy about this.
------
fapjacks
Don't be evil, amirite?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-30/trump-s-next-move-on-immigration-to-hit-closer-to-home-for-tech
======
fergie
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this may not be an altogether
bad thing.
From the article: "The foreign work visas were originally established to help
U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local
workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have
been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that
otherwise may go to Americans. The top recipients of the H-1B visas are
outsourcers, primarily from India, who run the technology departments of large
corporations with largely imported staff."
Outsourcing has come to be pretty racist, and is exploited by Big Consultancy
in order to place a lower price on immigrant labour. That's a bad thing for
everybody, not least the immigrants themselves.
When companies like Tata are fulfilling government contracts, they _should_ be
filling those positions with local labour at local rates.
Meanwhile companies like Google, Facebook, Apple and MicroSoft should continue
to be able to hire the experts they need from all over the world regardless of
what passport they hold.
~~~
yummyfajitas
_When companies like Tata are fulfilling government contracts, they _should_
be filling those positions with local labour at local rates._
Here's an alternate proposal. Suppose it would cost $70k for the wrong type of
people to provide labor, and $100k for the right type of person to provide
labor.
Lets continue having labor sold by the lowest cost provider. But then lets
engage in direct wealth transfers; we'll have the government directly send
$30k to the high income software engineers who might have been able to do the
same job less efficiently.
This is a more or less equivalent scheme to transfer wealth from taxpayers to
high income people. Do you have any objection to this scheme? If so, why does
your objection not apply equally well to your protectionist scheme?
~~~
JumpCrisscross
Who pays for that $30k the government sends the displaced worker?
~~~
juhq
You answered your own question. Government of course.
~~~
JumpCrisscross
So general income taxes or deficit spending? Isn't that just unemployment
insurance by another name?
~~~
juhq
Does it matter? Government collects taxes and then spends it as it chooses.
~~~
Touche
Yes, this is a new type of spending that hasn't existed before, and therefore
taxes either have to increase or something else that is currently getting the
30k doesn't get it any more.
You can't hand-wave away where this money comes from.
~~~
tobltobs
Trumpists can:
“This is the United States government. First of all, you never have to default
because you print the money, I hate to tell you, OK?”
~~~
croon
Before people dismiss this, it is an actual Trump quote.
~~~
pessimizer
It is also completely true.
~~~
KirinDave
It's not though. You don't "default" but your currency has to be well managed
to a certain degree. The Dollar exists as it does because of its status as a
reserve currency and because of how the Yuan is pinned relative to it.
You could break it. It's not immune to the hyperinflation that's hit other
currencies.
Historically, the only other proposed option was the EU and much as been made
about unsustainable financial policy there (many allege these issues are
overblown to help discredit the notion of a strong Euro, but that's neither
here nor there). But now we're starting to talk about creating to-order
currencies with arbitrary properties, guaranteed supply limits and curiously
popular ownership policies.
While governments will never give up the power to mint their own currency,
it's not unimaginable that in 10 years some some countries will seriously
consider participating in a digital reserve.
------
ajeet_dhaliwal
I don't live in the USA currently but I have worked there before on a visa and
I think the current system does require some sort of an overhaul. The current
way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to
save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans
and others) and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign
developers to abuse (not the horrific kind but certainly things like having to
endure a lack of certain freedom and lack of stability, begging for green
cards and the like). If the overhaul is even worse than what they have now
then the rest of the world should stop moaning and treat this like an
opportunity. Same applies to the immigration thing. If they turn into a basket
case and it is hard to trade and do business with them then why not promote
conventions and business elsewhere and grow other economies instead.
~~~
yummyfajitas
_The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers
who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages
(for Americans and others)_
Why do we care about increasing inequality and increasing costs to consumers
by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition?
_and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to
abuse_
I'd love to hear what kind of actual abuses an H1B shop can pull off. Make
developers work 50 hours/week for the 1-2 months it'll take the developers to
find a new job that'll be willing to sponsor the visa?
~~~
throwaway_374
" increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from
foreign competition?"
Sorry I have to disagree, I am the most vehement loather of Trump and his fan
base but fundamentally this just encourages a race to the bottom, does it not?
~~~
yummyfajitas
Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis
Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any
principled reason for opposing those laws?
(Note: I'm not calling you "racist" \- that's a slur that has lost all meaning
these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for
a principled reason why you oppose it.)
~~~
DarkKomunalec
The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other
citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it
is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to
the electorate.
~~~
yummyfajitas
In my opinion, it's a race's duty to place it's own people first. (Not
actually my opinion, but for the sake of argument...)
What principle makes your favored accident of birth ok to discriminate on, but
not mine?
~~~
crdoconnor
The fact that the institutions you are born under (like government) are real
and race isn't ([http://www.vox.com/2014/10/10/6943461/race-social-
construct-...](http://www.vox.com/2014/10/10/6943461/race-social-construct-
origins-census)).
Are you suggesting India become the 51st state of America?
~~~
yummyfajitas
All your reasons why race isn't real is simply because legal/cultural
definitions of it can change dependent on legal and social norms.
So can the idea of "Americanness" \- either laws around citizenship/work
permission/etc, or cultural/social norms around this.
~~~
crdoconnor
American = has citizenship. Conferred by the very real US citizenship and
immigration service.
That isn't a particularly unclear definition.
~~~
yummyfajitas
The US has had clear definitions of race in the past - e.g. "1/16 or more". If
we adopt such a definition, will you drop your objections to legalized racism?
If not, why not?
It's ok, we've discussed this before. I don't expect anything other than
evasion of the core philosophical issue.
~~~
crdoconnor
The point I made very clearly before is the same as the one I made now.
If you are a US citizen, subject to US laws enforced by the very _real_
institution of the US government which you live under, the US government owes
you a living.
If you are, say, a Mongolian citizen, the US government doesn't owe you a
living.
Your opinion was apparently that the US owes Mongolian citizens the same thing
it owes US citizens, because... reasons.
If you are of any particular race that is an irrelevance. An irrelevance you
keep bringing up because you are _obsessed_ with race to a point that is
frankly disturbing.
------
moomin
Disclosure: my wife used to be on a work-permit scheme similar to H1B.
The problem with all of these schemes is they're tied to a particular job. You
give up that job, your right to remain is toast. This makes it hard to move to
competitors and artificially depresses wages. In turn, this artificially
affects native workers in the same industry.
I think the solution here is more capitalism, not more government. Anyone
coming to work shouldn't be limited in who they work for. You'd find this flow
of cheap labour dry up awfully fast if they could get better jobs.
~~~
kalleboo
In comparison, the visa (technically, "residency permit") scheme in Japan
(widely viewed as a xenophobic, anti-immigrant country) is tied to the person.
You get sponsored in by an employer in a field, and then your residency is
tied to you being employed in that field. You can instantly turn around and
quit that job and find another one in the same field. Policy is you have 30
[or was it 60?90? something like that] days to find a new job or voluntarily
forfeit your residency. You will only need to prove that though the next time
you renew your residency permit.
They also make it very easy for skilled labour to immigrate. You just need a
degree in your field and a sponsoring employer. There are no quotas, no need
for the employer to prove they tried to find a local at above market rates,
fees aren't onerous, etc.
The xenophobic view comes partly from how there aren't many skilled workers
who _want_ or _can_ work in Japan (relatively low wages, Japanese language
requirement) but mostly from their reluctance to allow unskilled labour in
(which the US accepts via illegal immigration and Europe accepts via refugees)
~~~
asavadatti
H1B holders also have 60 days to find a new job after quitting/being fired
from their old job.
[https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-publishes-
fin...](https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-publishes-final-rule-
certain-employment-based-immigrant-and-nonimmigrant-visa-programs)
~~~
nickonline
Does the new job need to continue to sponsor under the H1B program? If so
that's not comparable.
~~~
what_ever
What exactly do you think is sponsoring H1B? The company just pays a one time
fee for applying for your permit which is negligible compared to how much
engineers are paid. They don't have ongoing expenses related to work permit.
~~~
moomin
The fact remains that many employers don't want to get involved, and don't.
Last thing you want as an employer is uncertainty.
------
Synroc
Just for perspective here, I'm currently an H1-B holder at a "unicorn" tech
company.
I did not have multiple H1-B applications, I was educated in the US, and I got
very very lucky in getting the lottery. I'm paid the same as my coworkers on
my team, I do not have to work longer hours than them, and for all intents and
purposes I am treated equally by my peers or management (not skipped on
promotions, raises etc).
So to speak, I work in the category of companies that do not abuse the H1-B
system, and uses it to find the right candidates (We've been looking for
someone to add to our team for 1 year at this point, and we can't find anyone,
american or not).
That said, even though I might benefit from this, I am still worried
personally as the devil will be in the details, and these things have a
tendency to have unintended consequences. Furthermore, I'm in the very early
stages of postulating for a green card, and what the future of that process
may entail also keeps me up at night. I really hope I will not have to pack up
my things and be forced to leave at any moment.
------
ggame
Why would SV clash with Trump on this? This seems like a sensible solution to
the problem and one I've seen posted multiple times here on HN.
~~~
kyrre
Good for software developers. Not so much for large companies that want to
drive down salaries through indentured servitude (H1B).
~~~
threeseed
No it's not that good for software developers or anyone really.
Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get
enough local talent. And so all that is going to happen is that companies are
going to shift entire projects offshore or simply not take on as many
projects.
There does need to be reform. But frankly given the chaotic manner in which
the Trump administration is crafting and implementing policy I don't think
their approach to reform will be nuanced enough.
~~~
MarkMc
> Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get
> local talent
So it's not just a way to get regular software developers at a cheap price? OK
let's raise the minimum salary requirement for H1B visas to $120k.
~~~
thomasahle
Or maybe something around the average software engineer pay scale of $80,000?
What about student interns?
~~~
kilotaras
Student interns are not on H1B. It's J1 I believe.
~~~
Eyas
Exchange interns are J1, student interns in the US use their current F1 Visa
with a CPT (Curricular Practical Training) permit for summer internship, or
sometimes an OPT (Optional Practical Training) permit.
------
kapnobatairza
I think the fairly straightforward solution to the H1B issue is to tie it to a
salary requirement, rather than a lottery/other subjective measures.
If I want to hire a software developer from abroad and I'm willing to pay him
above-market rates relative to similar jobs, that should demonstrate that I'm
hiring that person because of his skills/knowledge rather than trying to cut
costs.
~~~
d--b
It's already the case.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Condition_Application](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Condition_Application))
~~~
0xfeba
"Prevailing wage" being the loophole.
I get paid >$80k. Yet the wage that all of our "similar position" (actual
wage) visa applicants get is $40k.
The "prevailing wage" for a SwE is not $40k, in the NYC area. Neither is the
"actual wage". Companies abuse this constantly.
------
bckygldstn
The actual document was leaked to Vox, and is here: [https://cdn0.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7872567/P...](https://cdn0.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7872567/Protecting_American_Jobs_and_Workers_by_Strengthening_the_Integrity_of_Foreign_Worker_Visa_Programs.0.pdf)
~~~
andyjm
Thanks for this link. Reading the draft order reveals a lot - for example,
Section 4 a) ii) of the order would kill the international entrepreneur parole
rule before it even comes into effect.
------
paradite
Interesting. Singapore introduced the exact same policy (hire Singaporeans
first) a few years ago. I thought it was well-intentioned even though it would
hurt myself as a foreigner.
Edit to add source:
[http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/firms-must-show-
they-t...](http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/firms-must-show-they-tried-
to-hire-sporeans-first)
~~~
crdoconnor
Outside of the corporate expat-package bubble Singapore is a terrible place to
work anyway.
Virtually all of the hiring managers I talked to were clueless about
technology and were content to pay shitty wages for substandard work.
The nature of their 2 year military service also has the effect of turning the
locals into servile yes-men.
~~~
hackerboos
I was looking at relocating to South East Asia but Singapore's wages are
really low compared to the cost of living.
Median salary for software engineers are a measly SGD$48,953 (34,360 USD).
Average rents being SGD$1,971 for a one bedroom.
------
rocqua
As a European soon leaving university, and entering the job market, this makes
working in the US more attractive.
Before I'd written it off, as the competition for H1-B visas is fierce.
However, with luck this change will be aimed exactly at people like me. This
makes the high-wages and innovation of the US look much more appealing.
There remains the downside of US politics in general and labor protection
specifically.
~~~
threeseed
Honestly I don't really think anything will change for you.
You are still going to be struggling to find work without at least some
experience. Unless of course you enter a graduate program which is seperate
from the rest of the job market.
Many companies are simply ill-equipped or unwilling to invest in training
young developers. Especially in SV where the pace and intensity is so much
higher.
~~~
rocqua
I'm dutch, which (for a variety of weird reasons) means I'll be finishing my
masters.
------
Glyptodon
The idea that Visas would be awarded from highest offered salary to lowest
until cap is hit does actually seem halfway reasonable -- if you really truly
need somebody you'll likely be willing to pay them more. Whereas if you make
your money off of underpaying large numbers of workers, you'll probably end up
sitting at the end of the line.
(Not that I'll be a fan of the program exactly, just that I've heard worse
ideas.)
------
jpatokal
Looks like this is not just targeting H-1B, but basically _all work and
business_ visas for the US:
> The draft of Trump’s executive order covers an alphabet soup of visa
> programs, including H-1B, L-1, E-2 and B1.
L-1 is intracompany transfer, E-2 is investor, and B-1 is the super common
standard "I'm going to a meeting" business visa needed by everybody not in the
visa waiver program.
~~~
daemin
Would that be including the E-3 for Australians as well?
~~~
andyjm
The draft order is here: [https://cdn0.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7872567/P...](https://cdn0.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7872567/Protecting_American_Jobs_and_Workers_by_Strengthening_the_Integrity_of_Foreign_Worker_Visa_Programs.0.pdf)
It doesn't mention the E-3 specifically, but the E-3 could come under review
under the broader non-immigrant visa review provisions such as section
4d)i)A). The J-1 is specifically mentioned, which would affect Australian
students on working holidays. Also, this order, if signed, would stop the
international entrepreneur parole rule which would close another entry
pathway.
~~~
daemin
That's sort of what I figured. That the usual suspects of visas get hit right
now, but that all other visas would come under review in due time.
I shall have to see how it pans out, would have liked to work my next job in
the USA.
------
raincom
Yes, the current H1B system is broken. People will find loopholes in the
future replacement as well. Will the new system be better? I am not sure.
A couple of fixes would help:
(a) Remove the dependency between the visa holder and the company that
sponsors H1B. Initially, every h1b holder needs a company to sponsor. But
break this indenture after 12 or 18 months.
(b) Check the wages against IRS W2. Here, people complain about wage
disparities between midwest and nyc/bay area. If someone says we need to have
$80K min in Des Moines, IA., and $130K in Sunnyvale, CA, people will abuse
this system through intermediate contracting agencies. Basically, one works in
the bay area for $100K, while claiming on the paper that he is working in
Iowa.
(c) lets accept that fact that humans are selfish and that we can't get a
perfect system (a system that doesn't get abused). Just work with ways to
reduce loopholes. For instance, UK is stricter in terms of immigration
enforcement; they send the border patrol to train stations, bus stops,
apartments, to check on the status of people. I don't see it happening in the
states that much.
(d) STEM is abused now with silly universities in America, minting 1000's of
MS degrees in STEM.
------
refurb
This is going to be a fantastic test of HN's objectivity. In any discussion on
immigration there is always a huge thread on the abuse of the H1-B program. I
see words like "indentured servitude" and "undercutting tech salaries".
If Trump reforms the H1-B program to eliminate these issues, will people say
"I agree with what Trump did"? I won't hold my breath.
~~~
bdhe
I think HN passed your objectivity test with flying colors. The top comment is
sticking its neck out and the top reply is a pretty succinct summary of how
many people feel (myself included).
> Maybe.
> Here's the thing. Think about this as an MVP slapped together in a weekend,
> about to hit the biggest batch of software testers around. They're going to
> find show stopping bugs. And every one of those bugs is going to be
> someone's life, uprooted.
> Visa allocation changes _going_forward_ are certainly a reasonable thing.
> Fully within the realm of policy. But I'm going to bet that these changes
> are going to be of a far wider scope than expected and include people on
> current visas, and I wouldn't bet against visas getting revoked and workers
> having to go home the next day or get deported.
------
dakics
A company I work for remotely would love to bring me over and pay me at the
market rate.
However, that's practically impossible due to current immigration process and
H1-B scheming, caps, paperwork, expense and what-not.
It's much easier to get a similar job in EU country, if you have required (IT)
skills. Ironically, EU is the forefront of the current migration and refugee
scare.
So this could be a good thing at the end.
------
yummyfajitas
I love HN.
Trump hating on Iranians and Mexicans.
HN: "I hate Trump, he's so mean to immigrants. And avocado prices will go up!
::angry face::
Trump hating on Indians _who took our jobs!_
HN: "Protectionism for me too? ::swoons::"
~~~
freehunter
Well that's not even remotely the same thing.
Trump hating on Iranians _for no good reason_. Trump hating on Mexicans _who
are here legally or aren 't even in the country_ (the whole "Mexicans are
rapists, but I'm sure there's some good ones" comment). Versus Trump changing
immigration policy to balance foreign and domestic workers, where it's heavily
tipped to foreign workers right now.
He's not building a wall to keep out Indians, he's not arresting them at
airports when they have a green card, his plan is to just not issue as many
visas, and put tighter restrictions on the people he gives visas to.
That's not "hating on" anyone. There are lots of reasons to oppose Trump, but
this isn't one of them. The H1B visa system could use some work, and it's
getting that work.
~~~
yummyfajitas
It's heavily tipped to foreign workers?
For a US worker to find a job, they need to find a willing employer.
For a foreign worker, they need to:
0) Find a willing employer.
1) Get lucky. For 2017, there were 236,000 applications for 65,000 H1Bs (about
a 25% success rate).
2) Prove that an American worker isn't available to do the job.
3) Wait > 8 months to start the job (applications happen in April 2016 for
2017 employment).
Yeah, things are totally tipped in favor of foreign workers. I'm constantly
wondering if I should give up my US citizenship to gain these advantages.
~~~
freehunter
If it wasn't tipped toward foreign workers, you'd hear stories of H1B workers
who sadly lost their job to an American. You'd hear stories about companies
who hired all American employees, then apologized when they realize it didn't
work out and they went back to H1B workers. You'd hear politicians calling for
more foreign workers because there are too many jobs for Americans.
The 25% success rate? That's the system working as intended.
But your story of American workers just needing to find a willing employer,
your story of proving that an American worker isn't available to do the job,
it's just not true. Or at least it's not as true as you want to make it seem.
The minimum for an H1B employee is $60,000 right now. I made more than that at
my first tech job right out of college, living in a small city in the Midwest.
To get an H1B employee, all you have to do is put up a job posting for $60,000
and wait. The people who will fill that position will be expecting $80,000 and
will turn it down. To get an H1B employee, all you need to do is pay far less
than market rate (but at or above H1B minimum). Boom, you have highly skilled
Americans out of a job and companies getting employees for less than market
rate. I've seen it happen at every place I've ever worked.
Part of Trump's idea is to raise the minimum for H1B workers to $100k. The
idea of an H1B is that it allows you to hire employees who have such a
specialized skillset that you can't find someone in America to do the work.
What it's become is finding an entry-level Java coder for less than what an
American college-educated entry-level employee would make. If the work you
need done is so advanced or so specialized that there is no one in America who
can do it, you should be willing to pay whatever it costs to get it done.
It should be _extremely_ difficult to hire a foreign worker. Not impossible,
but really, really hard. Yes, it may be a privilege to be an American, but
there are a lot of unemployed, skilled, college-educated Americans. The
problem isn't not finding enough Americans to fill the positions, it's not
wanting to pay what they need to get paid. And that's the wrong sort of
behavior to encourage.
H1B visas should drive pay _up_ , not down.
~~~
mavelikara
> If it wasn't tipped toward foreign workers, you'd hear stories of H1B
> workers who sadly lost their job to an American.
You don't, because when an H-1B worker loses her job, she has to leave the
country or find another job real quick. Either way, she most likely do not
have time to get her story across to you.
~~~
freehunter
That's another problem I have with the current H1B visa system: the workers
are almost literally slaves. It is so close to indentured servitude that I'm
not sure if it isn't the same thing as indentured servitude. I've worked at
multinational tech companies and I've worked at regional enterprises and
everywhere in between and unfailingly, the H1B employees have four people in a
two bedroom apartment all sharing a 1987 Toyota Camry. They work 17 hour days
for less money than their coworkers, and if they complain, they're deported
and banned from the country.
That's not fair. If your skillset is so important that American companies will
bring you across the ocean from your home country to work for them, you should
be a _god_ to them. You should be the most valuable employee they have. They
hired Joe because he was the best candidate that applied to their local ad.
They hand-picked Prakesh and brought him all the way to California from his
home in India because _no one is better than Prakesh_.
The best way to make that happen? Pay them more.
~~~
mavelikara
> That's not fair.
What you are asking for is a point-based skilled immigration system like in
Canada, Australia etc. Nobody has proposed that in US yet. But there is a bill
- H.R.392: Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 [1] - currently up
for consideration of the Congress which removes the multi-decade green card
backlogs for skilled immigrants. From [2]:
H.R. 392, Fairness for High Skilled Immigrants Act replaces the current per-country caps
on immigration with a first-come first-served visa system without increasing the total number
of available visas. The current system of awarding no more than 7% of available employment-based
visas to one country is discriminatory. It ultimately imposes decades-long wait times for people
from some countries, creating a backlog of qualified workers. The bill makes no changes to the
current law limiting US employers to hire foreign workers except when there are no qualified,
willing, able, and available American citizens.
Please consider supporting H.R.392 as that is closest we have now to what you
are asking for.
[1]: [https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-
bill/392/...](https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-
bill/392/text?r=3)
[2]:
[http://chaffetz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentI...](http://chaffetz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=785)
------
dgregd
I have a question to tech companies CEOs, who make so much noise about Trump
latest executive order.
If you really care that much about Muslim countries then explain to me: why
the PhD brain drain is so good for these countries?
------
tsycho
Trump is playing "divide and conquer". Make every action benefit some segment
of people, and sow discord among your opponents.
That said, as a highly skilled, highly paid H1B person at one of those top
companies who probably needs to wait 5 more years to get a green card by
virtue of being born in the "wrong" country, I completely agree that there are
a lot of things broken in the current system. I just don't know if Trump is
actually interested in fixing them, or if this is just another populist move
to appease his voter base.
~~~
ConfuciusSay02
H1B reform has been talked about for going on a decade now.
The fact that Trump wants to tackle this in no way represents a "divide and
conquer" tactic.
------
d--b
This is another media stunt. H1B visas are already american-first. Immigration
rules make the applicant go through many hoops to prove that the job has been
advertised and American people have been interviewing for the position before
offering it to the H1B visa applicant. Of course, this is already silly,
because companies can just fake it, and usually they hire the person they want
for the skills they have. Everybody who's been through the visa process can
attest how hard it already is.
But that's not the point. Of course a 90-day ban on immigration from 7
countries is not going to significantly improve the security of the US. Of
course overhauling the worker visa process is not going to create more jobs
for the American worker in the Michigan area. Being very unpopular, Trump's
goal right now is to stay in place. And to do that, he needs to keep his
voters voting for him at the next election. Trump's strategy is to keep the
people who elected him happy with his moves, and to keep them offended by the
backlashes he provokes. He needs them to be suspicious of the news, and of the
elites, because then he can tell them whatever he wants. The message he wants
to push is "look I've done what I've been elected to do, and nobody will let
me." The more he can say that the media/elites won't let him, the more his
voters will look away when he wants to shut them down.
~~~
jacques_chester
I don't think Trump really has "a strategy".
Not least because he's burning up his most combustible powder. It's well-known
in politics that you do the antipopulist heavy lifting at the start of your
term, then sugar the turd with various splurges towards the end of your term.
Electoral feeling for any action, no matter how popular or unpopular, is
always returning to a baseline of "meh".
If Trump had such a strategy, he'd have held this stuff over until before the
mid-terms or the 2020 campaign.
------
village-idiot
On one hand I do believe that work-visa programs need to be reformed, on the
other I can't imagine Trump using this as anything but a way attack
foreigners.
------
s3nnyy
I think this is a great move and will increase the chances of Europeans being
hired by truly tech-driven firms in the US.
------
eruditely
We will simply see the truth of the affair in the reality of the supply
contraction and the volatility in wages post-execution of the H!-B programme,
then we will know for sure if the people paying us or the people are are
either grossly misinformed or were outright lying to us depending on the
events that take place, depending on the degree of volatility on the price of
software we will get an idea for what the supply of workers was and how much
they were suppressing wages or weren't and that will give us some insight into
the meta-game as it is taking place to-day.
This is akin to Isaac Levi's "Mild Contractions" in formal epistemology where
you contract beliefs/situations to see what happens to the phenomena to get
accurate information, I think that is a correct statement regarding Mr. Levi.
~~~
eruditely
Say, this is also the situation with the quality of our knowledge relative to
situations like that of self-driving cars and how they will effect the
economy, superficially, but also pervasively, say.... (let the following be a
few elements of the set of statements relevant to the affair of {economic
effects of self driving cars}
* What will happen to traffic
* The amount of automobile deaths
* The degree of the impact
* The decrease in cost of shipping materials
* Commodity prices relative to the materials here
* Allegedly the primary value of self driving cars does not occur initially, but when we can organize cities around self-driving cars, like we did with electricity, and then reap the benefits. So place your bets boys.
We will say, compare current expectations of the affair relative to what
happens and we will have a very modern gauge for the quality of our knowledge
in post-industrial civilization/complex-systems. This'll be a real good gauge
because a lot of money is riding on this, commodity prices, you know, the
entire thing. And then we will know if we should trust our experts relative to
the next situation that happens, the reason why this is a big deal is that
such a massive change will not occur like this(likely) for awhile, this is
like another industrial revolution.
I think it'll be an interesting affair. The reason this type of reasoning is
really important is because we really need an accurate gauge of the quality of
our economic knowledge and just the field of economics && the current experts
we have in general, because we are using that very same subject to reason
about this affair, say the effects of changes in the current Visa programme,
if the effects are literally nothing like the standard theory, then non-
mainline economic reasoning is just fine/dandy to use the next time and we
cannot suppress those people next time. etc. (and all other sets of statements
that apply to the current affair, i would never only mean what i _only_ said.
------
gotchange
> Hira, who has done extensive research on the subject, points out workers at
> outsourcers are typically not treated as well as others. The median wage at
> outsourcing firms for H-1B workers was less than $70,000, while Apple,
> Google and Microsoft paid their employees in the program more than $100,000,
> according to data he collected. That suggests the American companies are
> going after true, highly skilled employees, while the outsourcers are
> recruiting less expensive talent, he said.
Not necessarily. You could also say that the big tech companies are overpaying
them or there's premium in their compensation while they're fairly compensated
in those Indian outsourcing companies with no premium in their pay package.
~~~
pm90
OK so we need to agree on the definition of a market here. I'm gonna take the
US tech market as the collection of all citizens and legal immigrants with the
relevant skills.
Now, if you can't get a majority of workers in the market to work for you for
a lower wage, that is not fair market value, by definition. If you need to
bring in legal immigrants and pay them less than the above mentioned fair
market value, they are being underpaid.
------
denzil_correa
The overall idea makes sense. However, HOW remains a crucial detail. The work
visa is to find people outside US if you do not mind local labor. We all know
some companies abuse this system currently while some companies do not. One
way would be to check the distribution of market salaries for the respected
position and apply the doctorine of disparate impact 80% rule [0]. That will
still be an issue if people are creative with their job titles but it is
incredibly hard to find the right kind of incentives.
[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact#The_80.25_rul...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact#The_80.25_rule)
------
anjc
Good.
This should be unanimously supported by the developed tech world.
------
LAMike
Any guess on how much will salaries for developers will rise after this move?
~~~
onion2k
If a company can't recruit an immigrant worker on a visa they'll try recruit
one of the currently unemployed local developers on the exact same package the
immigrant would have been on. That has no impact on wages.
If the job required a unique talent that would only have been possible to fill
with an exceptionally talented immigrant worker then the job won't be filled,
and the company will be consequently less competitive. That will likely drive
the wages of their workers _down_ if a different company (in India perhaps) is
able to utilize that worker's skills.
For example, imagine the next Jony Ive can't get a visa so he stays in the UK
and works for a British company instead.. How would that impact American
wages?
~~~
anjc
Why would it drive wages down?! It'd be the exact opposite, and is the reason
that wages have been stagnant in STEM, and is the reason for the wage
collusion scandal. Companies would have to increase their offers to attract
talent from other companies. Or they would have to - as used to be the case
everywhere - accept that talent is nurtured from within.
~~~
threeseed
Not sure what on earth you're expecting with STEM wages.
Across the economy and in most countries wages have been stagnant and STEM is
no exception. And don't forget that most IT projects are not mandatory. If
wages rise significantly companies will just cut back on projects which means
more unemployed talent and hence the wages will drop back.
And there is no evidence that talent is better nurtured from within. It is
just as beneficial for companies to have outsiders with unique experiences and
viewpoints join.
~~~
anjc
You'd expect wages to rise when it's in industries with supposed skills
shortages, which necessitates major corporations lobbying government for more
visas.
If wages rose, companies couldn't just uniformly cut back on projects to keep
their net profit the same in a hypercompetitive industry. Hence the wage
collusion scandal, mentioned above.
------
eva1984
H1B needs reform no doubt. But I remain vigilant to see exactly how Trump
administration is enforcing their agenda.
Worst case, I would go to another country or go back home, which will be hard
in the beginning but will be fine over long term. As a decent and confident
developer, it is not hard to find jobs around the world. There will be more
opportunities for other countries if US fails to attract and retain the smart
people from all over the world.
Stay strong and curious, people!
------
python490
H1B has needed reform for a very long time. Let's see if what comes from this
executive order. Good intention but I don't trust Trump.
------
nirav72
Don't think people/general public will be as outraged about this as the ban on
refugees this past weekend.
------
known
Inevitable since [https://qz.com/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-
indi...](https://qz.com/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-indians-to-
hire-others-indians-and-its-killing-diversity/)
------
1024core
> if they recruit foreign workers, priority would be given to the most highly
> paid.
That is the simplest solution.
------
xHopen
Maybe one day no one would like to live in USA, and the citizens will start
migrating, investors will choose other countries, and then only "Americans"
will live there. Then people will realise , we fucked it up , probably they
will never get it.
~~~
emperorcezar
Hopefully at that point they can migrate from the US to the Republic of
California [http://www.yescalifornia.org/](http://www.yescalifornia.org/)
~~~
big_youth
I live in SF and hate how glibly techies talk about secession.
It may be because I grew up in the south and it's part of our history but
techies seem to forget that the bloodiest US conflict in history was to
prevent this very thing. To even entertain the idea that secession would not
result in a mass amounts of destruction death exemplifies the Bay area bubble
mentality.
~~~
freehunter
Eh, it's a fun thing to think about, especially knowing it will never happen.
Texas fantasizes about it all the time. Every few months there's some kind of
map being posted here about how to split the US into different countries or
re-draw the state borders or some other fantasy map. It's just a fun daydream.
I live in Michigan and several times we've had people from the Upper Peninsula
try to get support for them to create a new state, ignoring the fact that they
would be creating one of the poorest, most uneducated, and most unpopulated
states, and it'd never be allowed.
It's a symbolic gesture to say "I don't agree with X policy". the UP of
Michigan does it to protest Lansing tax policies, Texas does it to protest
liberal federal policies, California does it to protest right-wing federal
policies. And everyone knows full well it won't go any farther than a protest.
~~~
Neliquat
Its symbolic of not playing well with others and being bigoted against their
view of the rest of the country. See: Texas
Seriously, it may be all in fun, but it paints a sad message about the
perceptions of people who participate.
~~~
pm90
I think its just one way to vent frustration in the face of powerlessness.
Like a protest against State's powerlessness. So Texas secessionists may talk
and hold rallies but they don't (IMO, living in Austin, Texas) seriously
consider leaving.
------
gagabity
Kind of tangentially related, any clue what is going to happen to the
Diversity Visa lottery?
~~~
hackerboos
Considering the only requirement is high school education, I think it's likely
that DV is on the chopping block.
There a few fake articles that say it's cancelled already.
I've also read that DV visa holders from the 7 countries that are mentioned in
last week's executive order will not be able to enter the United States.
------
alain94040
_the Director of the U.S. Census Bureau shall include questions to determine
U.S. citizenship and immigration status on the long-form questionnaire in the
decennial census_
------
Beltiras
This is the sole point of agreement I have with Trump. He might lose because
of the other odeous things he is doing.
------
vermontdevil
I'm all for reform but an executive order? Something on this scale needs to go
through Congress first.
~~~
scaryspooky
Maybe he is trying to beat the current executive order record holder? Trump
did just kick him out of the Whitehouse.
~~~
vermontdevil
Really?
Obama way way down on the list.
Try again.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders)
------
jijji
About time
------
m23khan
let's see how this plays out -- with Indian PM Modi scheduled to visit US soon
and with the current bonhomie between US and India, IT may as well be
classfied as an 'exception'.
------
davidf18
This is an article about 250 Disney of FL jobs that were displaced by H1-B
Visa abuse. Trump was clearly against the abuse and spoke out against it.
Rubio on the other hand was for tripling the number of Visas to 250,000 and
had Disney as one of his major donors.
Much of Silicon Valley wants to keep wages depressed and have more American
unemployed by hiring more immigrant workers over using Americans. Many people
say they dislike Trump, but of all the candidate except for Sanders he was the
only ones who wasn't bought by Silicon Valley and Wall Street. I believe Joe
Biden also was not bought by SV and Wall Street and was concerned about
American workers.
"While Donald Trump has called on Disney to hire back all of these workers and
has pledged to end H-1B job theft as President, Sen. Marco Rubio has pushed to
expand the controversial H-1B program—he has introduced two bills that would
dramatically boost the issuances of H-1Bs. As recently as last year, Rubio
introduced a bill—endorsed by Disney’s CEO Bob Iger via his immigration
lobbying firm—that would triple the issuances of H-1Bs. Disney is one of Sen.
Rubio’s top financial backers—having donated more that $2 million according to
Open Secrets."
[http://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2016/02/28/displaced-
di...](http://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2016/02/28/displaced-disney-
workers-shame-on-you-marco-rubio-we-stand-with-trump/)
~~~
davidf18
Why was this downvoted? It would be helpful if someone stated the reason why.
What is clear is that Trump represents American workers over the elites that
want to depress wages. What is also clear is that Rubio was "bought" by Disney
precisely because they wanted to depress American wages.
Are these facts incorrect?
~~~
wavefunction
I don't know if you can claim as facts that Trump represents American workers
over the elites or that Rubio was bought by Disney. Those are hypotheses and
opinions that can only be strongly or poorly argued to the rest of us.
I would declaim your first contention of Trump favoring workers over wealthy
elites, merely by the long sordid history of wage theft perpetrated by
Trump[0].
The claim about Rubio needs more evidence to be considered a fact. I would
agree, given the circumstantial evidence, but it wouldn't yet be a fact unless
direct evidence could be presented.
[0][https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/digger/wp/2017/01/06/thi...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/digger/wp/2017/01/06/third-
lien-on-trump-hotel-brings-alleged-unpaid-bills-to-
over-5-million/?utm_term=.e272faae6d9f)
~~~
davidf18
> "I don't know if you can claim as facts that Trump represents American
> workers over the elites or that Rubio was bought by Disney."
I didn't say that Rubio was bought by Disney, but that 'Rubio was "bought" by
Disney', the quotes are operative to suggest a strong implication without in
fact true evidence which might be illegal. The point is that Rubio accepted $2
million from Disney to increase from 85,000 to 250,000 the number of H1-B
visas that only serves to replace American STEM workers with immigrants who
are cheaper and who don't have job mobility. Rubio ignored his own
constituents, 250 of whom had their jobs replaced by Disney using immigrants.
Increasing the number of H1-B visas by 165,000 fewer American STEM workers get
jobs _each year_ or 1.65 million over a decade.
What is clear about Trump is that he has spoken out against Disney's use of
H1-B visas to replace American STEM jobs. He has spoken out and intervened
with Carrier which wanted to send 2000 Indiana factory jobs to Mexico. About
1000 of those jobs will be saved.
Sanders agreed with Trump about Carrier, Disney, etc., but Hilary was silent
as were all of the other Republican candidates. I can only speak of Rubio's
actions (accepting $2 million from Disney which wanted to put more American
STEM workers on unemployment and sponsoring a bill to increase H1-B Visas)
compared with Trump who spoke out against these actions and who did not
receive one cent from Disney or probably most SV and Wall Street firms.
Most of the SV and Wall Street firms hate Trump precisely because he won't
allow them to import cheap STEM labor so now the firms will have to pay market
rates to retain STEM employees.
HP chief Meg Whitman, a Republican, said she was voting for Hilary because
'“Trump’s reckless and uninformed positions” on immigration...' [1]. Trump's
reckless and uninformed position on immigration is stopping illegal
immigration and ensuring H1-B visas are issued according to law -- only for
those STEM jobs for which no Americans are qualified. HP like Disney and other
firms that hire STEM workers want to depress STEM job income using immigrants
(e.g., H1-B Visas). Trump will have nothing of it and that makes them very,
very angry.
[1] [http://fortune.com/2016/08/02/hewlett-packard-enterprise-
meg...](http://fortune.com/2016/08/02/hewlett-packard-enterprise-meg-whitman-
donald-trump-hillary-clinton/)
------
davidf18
If you read the entire article, you can see that President Trump is on the
side of the American IT worker and President Obama was working against
Americans by allowing more immigrants to work here outside the legal H1-B Visa
system through an executive order.
People seem to think that Trump is the bad guy and Obama the good guy, but
then how do you justify Obamas actions? Trump is right. Obama is wrong.
It was Trump who spoke out against Disney of Florida's abuse of H1-B Visas
displacing 250 American IT workers. Except for Sanders and Trump all of the
other candidates were for replacing American IT workers with immigrants and
depressing American IT worker wages.
"This is an argument which Trump has weighed in on in the past and a point of
contention between the President Elect and Barack Obama. It was almost one
year ago when Obama raised eyebrows by issuing an executive order which would
allow these H-1B visa holders to receive green cards and stay in the country
even if their employment was terminated. This led observers to note that he
was essentially corrupting the entire purpose of the H-1B program and overload
existing immigration quotas. (Numbers USA)"
[http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/19/disney-lawsuit-may-
dra...](http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/19/disney-lawsuit-may-drag-trump-
back-into-h-1b-visa-debate/)
~~~
mavelikara
From the article you linked:
"What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are
unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000."
The INA states that no country may receive more than 7 percent of the total number of green
cards available in a given year. The executive action would bypass the INA per-country caps
for H-1B workers, essentially providing them with a fast track to U.S. citizenship.
This is a misunderstanding. There are no extra green cards handed out. All
this provision does is that it removes the 7-percent-per-country quota
restriction. This restriction is unfair to applicants from populous countries,
and the administration was planning to remove those. Please don't spread
misinformation here on HN.
~~~
davidf18
From the quote you gave, "What is going on is he is _effectively_ giving Green
Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the
[annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." [emphasis added]
The article states _effectively_ which means that while they aren't given out
in reality, they are accomplishing much the same thing in practice and that
100,000 more people are working here than should be according to the intent of
the law. For every one of those workers working here, there is one less
American working here.
When Congress passed the law, they knew what they were doing. 7% is about 1 in
14 for a world with over 180 countries. Instead of an executive order, they
should probably change the law through Congress.
If you want to talk about fairness, then talk about how unfair it is that
American workers have wages further depressed and have a more difficult time
finding jobs because of this change in executive order (and not the law). The
President is supposed to represent American citizens who vote him in office,
instead represents the elites (e.g. Silicon Valley firms and Wall Street
firms) who want depressed wages for American STEM workers.
~~~
mavelikara
H-1B, the input stream for these skilled immigrants, do not have any such per-
country limits. But the green card process does. This brings into existence a
large number of skilled immigrants who have their stay in the country tied to
their job. This weakens their negotiation power, and contributes significantly
to the wage depression you talk about.
Even NumbersUSA do not oppose removing this [1] restriction. Yet, you are
_for_ keeping the per-country quotas. Why?
[1]:[https://www.numbersusa.org/content/news/november-30-2011/sen...](https://www.numbersusa.org/content/news/november-30-2011/sen-
chuck-grassley-place-hold-employment-based-visa-bill.html)
~~~
serge2k
I'm (selfishly) for keeping them because I don't want to get stuck in line
with the huge backlog of people from India and China. That's a lousy reason
though.
I'm not going to spend a decade living a shitty life waiting though. So if the
per country caps go I might just give up.
~~~
mavelikara
> I'm not going to spend a decade living a shitty life waiting though.
Obama administration estimated that with the per country quotas removed, the
backlogs for _everyone_ will be gone in under 5 years. Sure, that is worser
than getting your GC in a year.
------
yarou
While I don't agree with the travel ban, this is actually a sensible course of
action. The H1B system needs a huge overhaul. The problem is that Trump is
told by a so-called advisor that issue x is bad, and there isn't much thought
given to the implementation of the solution to that problem.
------
akjainaj
>Companies would have to try to hire American first and if they recruit
foreign workers, priority would be given to the most highly paid.
Wow, that's horrible. I mean, a country giving preference to their own kind.
When is this nightmare going to end?
~~~
kitsune_
Yeah, it is horrible. Why limit your professional life, team, workplace and
day to day exchanges to a tiny pool of people when there are billions of
people who inhabit planet earth.
~~~
Chris2048
Reciprocity. People you have fewer bonds/relationships with are less likely to
reciprocate, and _more_ likely to compete.
> a tiny pool of people
Are you talking about the US (dev) population?
~~~
mjmsmith
This assumes that shared nationality is going to make for stronger bonds. The
way things are going, the opposite might be true.
~~~
Chris2048
> The way things are going, the opposite might be true
like all those celebs that threatened to leave the US?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Yale Covers for Rapists - jordanlee
http://jezebel.com/yale-officially-declares-nonconsensual-sex-not-that-b-988475927
======
dredmorbius
Lifted from comments at Jezebel:
FrothingLiberalUKatie J.M. Baker41L How dare Yale not give delicate little
snowflakes the unilateral ability to expel any male student with a false rape
claim!
Although if a student were actually raped, she might want to consider
something called "the police"
\------
I'll note that rape claims may also be made by men against women, or
alternatively oriented relationships.
------
jordanlee
Reposted with original link.
This is jaw-droppingly offensive and contributes to an unmistakable pattern of
deception and avoidance that makes it damn near impossible for me to conclude
that Yale today is anything but a vilely misogynistic, self-regarding
institution utterly lacking in moral compass. If the Yale community wishes to
restore the good name of a once great American institution, it should demand
the immediate resignation of the current leadership. It has been on their
watch (as well as that of their immediate predecessors) that rape and sexual
assault have been so thoroughly trivialized, so it is high time they are held
to account.
------
omonra
As I don't expect even-handed coverage from Jezbel, can anybody answer whether
a) this applies to someone convicted in court of rape? b) what are standard
university policies about other felonies (ie does someone get expelled for
being convicted of assault?)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Founders, how did you balance between increasing users and revenue? - adamfaliq
Startup has limited resources. Hence, I found myself in catch-22 situation.<p>For example, if we want to increase revenue, we need more users. To increase users, we need to spend more. However we do not have enough revenues to justify the spending. How did you make decision(s) in this situation?
======
bwb
I would want to see a ton of data on revenue and so on for your situation but
in terms of what I have done in past...
1\. I've increased prices for new customers by 30% to 50%. That can help right
away if you are charging too little.
2\. I've increased the discount on yearly and higher contracts to give us cash
to fund the business upfront. IE, if you know your math you can make it easy.
\- You can approach existing clients for a contract increase too.
3\. Adding to the checkout flow an upgrade recommendation at the final step,
ie, for x dollars more a day you get this and this. We had a 30% uptake to our
highest plan doing this.
The other way to go, is you can start thinking outside the box on marketing,
but without knowing more that is hard. IE, how do you hit your customer
segment for 1/100th the price you are now.
------
yosho
Your profit should always cover your customer acquisition cost. If it does,
congratulations keep spending and grow the customer base and start scaling. If
it doesn't, refine your business model and keep iterating until it does. It
should never be a catch-22 really unless you're doing it wrong.
------
tejcirkulate
One more thing I wanted to add is that it sure does look like a catch-22 but
the counter-intuitive thing here is that you cannot solve for revenue by
gaining more users.
Revenue is a lagging metric that is a result of many things that you do in the
business. You could increase revenue by increasing MRR by improving
retention,reducing churn. You could increase expansion MRR by increasing value
add for customers that enables you to translate that into upgrades/upsells.
Mostly, increasing users via acq only works when you have strong retention and
thats a product problem, not a marketing problem.
I would suggest the Lean Analytics book to understand this in more detail and
also this 6 part series from Social Capital.
[https://medium.com/swlh/diligence-at-social-capital-
part-1-a...](https://medium.com/swlh/diligence-at-social-capital-
part-1-accounting-for-user-growth-4a8a449fddfc)
------
tejcirkulate
"To increase users, we need to spend more."
Its great that you left the sentence ended at "more" because generally the
answer isnt in spending more money, its about discovering those channels that
help you get your message and value prop to your target audience at very low
cost. Ideally, the cost should really be "time" in that you should be able to
spend more time on discoverig the channels than spending money(ads for eg) on
such discovery.
My opinion veers towards revenue and hopefullly from existing customers rather
than new users because its less expensive, you already have a relationship and
a strong basis for this relationship is the value you are already adding for
them.
------
RaceWon
Perhaps there is a free way to get more users (or a cheaper way). Why don't
you post how you are currently getting users and Ask HN if there is a more
economical way.
------
markfer
Most successful SaaS companies operate on a payback period of less than 1
year. Aka spend $100 today, and you'll get $100 from the customer within 10-12
months. After that, it's all profit, which works out really well if your churn
is low and users stick around for 48 months.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GunJS: Forget Everything You Thought You Knew About Databases - sjones6
https://arsenalio.com/guides/forget-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-databases
======
greatNespresso
Looks interesting really, summarised gunjs is pouchdb + couchdb + rethinkdb +
neo4j all in one.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Considerations for programming language design: a rebuttal - BruceEel
https://medium.com/hackernoon/considerations-for-programming-language-design-a-rebuttal-5fb7ef2fd4ba
======
BruceEel
Not a D expert, I'm currently using D for a side-project and having a great
time learning as I go. IMVHO Walter Bright is right and much of 'So You Want
To Write Your Own Language?' still holds.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Science of Insecurity, Meredith L. Patterson and Sergey - based2
https://media.ccc.de/v/28c3-4763-en-the_science_of_insecurity
======
based2
[http://langsec.org/](http://langsec.org/)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300836](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2300836)
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1010.5023](https://arxiv.org/abs/1010.5023) Yacc is
dead, Matthew Might, David Darais
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
47% of applications for our Hacker Retreat were women. Here is how we did it - AlexeyMK
https://medium.com/@casey_rosengren/how-we-got-47-female-applicants-for-our-hacker-retreat-430b8a13a6fc
======
angersock
A general comment, likely grounded more in my own frustration and :
When did we become so concerned with awesome vacation getaways with code
happening and less with, you know, programming?
I think it's awesome that there are people who have the free
money/time/resources/independence to go spend 12 weeks hacking in the tropics,
but unless we see some baller results I can't help but shake the feeling this
is an experience for trendy kids and not for the hardworking, overweight,
overscheduled neckbeard.
I hope you folks are able to publicize a bunch of cool stuff that comes out of
this! That might give it a bit more street cred.
~~~
tptacek
Are you sure the word "neckbeard" is really one you wanted to use here?
~~~
notduncansmith
Yeah, I meet the overworked and overscheduled parts (and couldn't afford to
spend a month hacking on open source in the tropics), but I'm not overweight
and certainly don't have a neckbeard. I get that "neckbeard" is more of a
cultural term than a literal one, but it seems like even that interpretation
has taken on a more pejorative bent lately.
~~~
tptacek
I just meant that they may have inadvertently re-introduced gender into the
discussion.
"Neckbeard" is definitely a pejorative term, but that's not in itself a huge
problem.
~~~
notduncansmith
Ah, I missed that subtle point. Very astute.
------
Alex_The_Chan
I've always been uncomfortable about the idea of addressing imbalance by
focusing and targeting ONLY the minority. I like your analysis and process of
reworking your site to be more appealing to everyone. In fact, I think I'll
apply now :D
------
jonleung
I like how this article focuses on things you can do now to even the gender
balance, rather than just lamenting the broken pipeline.
------
ankitshah
Love how this is tactically oriented and not just an expose of stuff that
happened to work.
------
caser
This is what we learned - what did we miss?
Anyone else out there with similar or conflicting experiences?
------
sergiotapia
Why do we need 50/50 ratios?
~~~
FD3SA
I wonder why we never see articles about the gender imbalance in investment
banking, underwater welding, or trucking.
~~~
EliRivers
I know why. It's because you _didn 't bother looking_. I found some on
trucking and banking within ten seconds of starting to look.
------
jqm
Do one thing and do it well. This is a motto for more than UNIX in my opinion.
Are you hacking or are you retreating and obtaining social justice? Because
meanwhile, real hackers are really hacking and they generally don't care about
gender ratio nor group retreats to Costa Rica.
Don't think this is a dig just at this conference either. I get irate when I
see fireman in uniform out collecting for charity and things like cowboy or
biker churches. Fireman should be fighting fires. Churches shouldn't have
anything to do with cowboys nor bikers (not a church attender...just something
personally annoying I noticed).
Separate your concerns and you won't lose sight of the proper function of each
component. Just my opinion. Others may feel differently.
~~~
AlexeyMK
Fair enough. For us, the thing we are trying to 'do well' is to build the sort
of community that we'd enjoy living in while we work on our various projects.
Perhaps it's a point of personal preference, but we enjoy living within a
diverse community.
Disagree with our values or priorities? No worries - start your own flavor of
community project and let's exchange notes. Ain't the free market grand.
~~~
jqm
Well I wish you the best of luck. I'm sure there are plenty of people with
whom this project will jive.
I don't see it. But I'm in my 40's, have no tattoos, no fedora, a normal
haircut and no beard so I don't know that diversity extends far enough for me
anyway. For me, hacking is not about vacation nor social engineering and never
the twain shall meet. But style preferences may vary. If it works for others,
by all means disregard and carry on. I'm not intending to start a community.
There are already plenty of those that grew organically over the decades where
I live. I generally turn up my nose at them as well, so don't take it
personally. Making a better living space is a laudable goal.
------
socialengineer
+1 rming the picture of four dudes playing foosball
~~~
DanBC
I agree it's not a great picture.
One of the things that makes it a poor choice is that one of the people is
probably female but she's been cropped almost out of the image.
------
rickyPanzer
awesome work!
------
vezzy-fnord
Good work. My only objection is the endorsement of the Geek Feminism Wiki,
which is an unreliable source.
~~~
AlexeyMK
Do you mind going into a bit more depth here? The GFW was pretty useful re:
the references it pointed us too. What makes it unreliable?
(genuinely curious, clearly still learning here)
~~~
vezzy-fnord
1) The editorial guidelines
([http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Meta:Editorial_guidelines](http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Meta:Editorial_guidelines))
state:
While citations are preferred wherever
possible, we do not require them. Much
of our wiki is primary source material,
sometimes added anonymously in order to
avoid backlash against the whistleblower.
Original research is welcome.
2) The Geek Feminism Wiki, although simply referring to itself as "feminist",
subscribes to a particular form of third-wave poststructural feminism that is
not so much concerned with equity, as it is preoccupied with dubious and
subjective gender politics. Indeed, their editorial guidelines outright say
"[We]... accept each person's self-reporting of their feelings and lived
experiences as valid". Ultimately, this leads to a lot of bias,
misrepresentation and is only a specific feminist viewpoint.
~~~
slvv
Is there an alternative that you think is better? Also, is their "version" of
feminism a problem since they're so clear about what it is? It doesn't seem
like they're hiding their perspective at all, so readers can decide how to
interpret based on that knowledge.
~~~
makomk
Their version of feminism isn't all that clear at all from the description.
Essentially _all_ forms of feminism that revolve around women's "feelings and
lived experiences" use them to prop up their underlying ideological beliefs -
the only feelings and lived experiences that are accepted are the ones that
confirm their ideology.
You can see this in the list of out-of-scope items. For example, no "apologia
for misogynist, anti-feminist, oppressive, or other harmful actions or ideas"
is allowed - in practice this tends to include stuff like having an unfeminine
attitude to sex and sexuality, doing sex work, being friends with anyone who
does, opposing bans on it, being kinky, or complaining about any bad
experiences you've had with other mainstream feminist women including
systematic online and offline harassment (which is a serious problem for some
groups of women).
If you think about the guidelines it's easy to tell they exclude some women's
feelings and lived experiences, but there's no way to tell which. The linked
page makes it sound like the policy affects oppressors when it's mostly those
who are worst off that get screwed.
~~~
king_jester
> You can see this in the list of out-of-scope items. For example, no
> "apologia for misogynist, anti-feminist, oppressive, or other harmful
> actions or ideas" is allowed - in practice this tends to include stuff like
> having an unfeminine attitude to sex and sexuality, doing sex work, being
> friends with anyone who does, opposing bans on it, being kinky, or
> complaining about any bad experiences you've had with other mainstream
> feminist women including systematic online and offline harassment (which is
> a serious problem for some groups of women).
Am I misunderstanding you? If your point of view is against sex work and
"unfeminine" attitudes towards sex (wtf does that even mean anyway), it seems
to me that you are being misogynist and quite possibly oppressive. I don't
doubt those people exist, I've met quite a few of them, but that doesn't say
anything directly about what the geek feminism wiki does and represents.
> If you think about the guidelines it's easy to tell they exclude some
> women's feelings and lived experiences, but there's no way to tell which.
> The linked page makes it sound like the policy affects oppressors when it's
> mostly those who are worst off that get screwed.
Is there any evidence to suggest that geek feminism wiki does that? Are
viewpoints on sex work or sexuality skewed towards one point of view, or are
there many points of view about those subjects on the wiki?
~~~
vezzy-fnord
_If your point of view is against sex work and "unfeminine" attitudes towards
sex (wtf does that even mean anyway), it seems to me that you are being
misogynist and quite possibly oppressive._
No, that's just sex-negative feminism. It's pretty common. In fact, the two
major opponents to pornography have always been the conservative right and the
feminist left. Opinion on BDSM is usually a litmus test for sex-positivity or
sex-negativity.
As a whole, GFW appears to be sex-positive, with a few caveats as to how it
understands objectification.
------
cantastoria
_Harassment includes verbal comments that reinforce social structures of
domination related to gender, gender identity and >expression, sexual
orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, age, religion,
sexual images in public spaces, deliberate intimidation, stalking, following,
harassing photography or recording, sustained disruption of talks or other
events, inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention._
And who gets to determine if I'm doing any of these things? The conference
organizers? If I attend this conference, how can they assure me that I won't
be at the mercy of conference attendees that suddenly decide I'm harassing
them simply because I say something within their vicinity they disagree with a
la Adria Richards?
Although I guess Richards would have been taken to task for "harassing
photography". Although by that point it would have been too late anyway.
The problem with these speech codes is that they're just as easily used as a
way to silence and shame people who's views differ from those of organizations
like geekfeminism (i.e. not radfem).
You don't have to be a feminist to treat women respectfully.
~~~
tptacek
This comment has practically nothing to do with the article. As usual, any
submission concerning improving the ratio of women to men in our industry
immediately becomes a coatrack for digs about "radfem".
For those of you who read the comments before clicking through to the article:
this one is a list of things an event organizer did to try to boost attendance
among women. None of them appear at all controversial. The "code of conduct"
section this commenter takes issue with is table stakes at most major
conferences. But that doesn't mean rude commenters will miss an opportunity to
beat a dead horse.
~~~
cantastoria
Ah in gallops tptacek on his trusty steed. Dead horse indeed.
_As usual, any submission concerning improving the ratio of women to men in
our industry immediately becomes a coatrack for digs about "radfem"._
Just because they don't appear controversial to you doesn't make it so. And am
I not allowed to take issue with the "table stakes"?
~~~
idlewords
The problem is you're hijacking a thread about specific, quantifiable steps
that one group took, and the results they achieved, in order to spin the kinds
of hypotheticals that have a proven track record of spiraling off into wank.
Don't do it. Write a blog post or something. Call your mom.
~~~
cantastoria
I'm doing nothing of the sort. The code of conduct was clearly cited as one of
the steps taken. I have issue with that step. And I have as much right to
comment here as you do. You're free to ignore me. Please do.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
You Are Not A Product – So stop treating yourself like one - changisP
https://medium.com/personal-growth/you-are-not-a-product-61acb6d208c5
======
ksaj
If you allow yourself to be treated as the product, then you are indeed the
product.
Don't use "free" services if you object to the designation, because to the
owners of those services, you are literally nothing but a product sold to
whomever is paying for you to receive that free service.
Every "free" email, search engine, repo, etc., isn't a product to the end
user, even if it mimics one. It is a way for advertisers and data miners to
access the site owner's product -- your eyes and info.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
OnDeck IPO Proves Online Lending Is Red-Hot - greedoshotlast
http://www.wired.com/2014/12/ondeck-ipo/
======
greedoshotlast
Just a week after the LendingClub IPO, I'm really surprised there has not been
more buzz on HackerNews about these two online lending companies.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.