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Options Pricing in Excel with QuantLib - karamazov
https://datanitro.com/blog/2012/08/13/QuantLib/
======
photon137
This reminds me that compiling QuantLib is such a pain in the ass. I love
QuantLib though - I use it via C# and there is an Excel plugin already
available in the source code.
As regards your example:
(a) single-name options usually have an American exercise-type.
(b) the main difficulty (and the thing one would actually pay for) is getting
and maintaining a vol-surface for pricing these things - using flat vol to
price this is quite inaccurate and risky.
~~~
karamazov
I've played around with QuantLib's Excel plugin, and I don't find it easy to
use - the hybrid system they set up to merge Excel with the C++ structure of
QuantLib is unintuitive. I've had better luck just pulling the functions into
Python and going from there.
~~~
photon137
I agree. It's quite messy. That's why I use the C# swig bindings instead and
if I had to use Excel as a UI, I'd build my own plugins in C# rather than use
the ones they provide - in a similar fashion as you've done with Python.
~~~
mathewrphillips
I had a hard time getting the swig bindings to work for me. Would you be
willing to make a nuget package of that?
~~~
photon137
Well, it requires an unmanaged dll (NQuantLibc) to be compiled which would be
pinvoked by the managed bindings dll (NQuantLib). The unmanaged dll will not
be platform independent (I don't know if you'd be using x86/x64). It also
needs to be copied over to the same directory in which your output binaries
would reside.
Anyways, I've uploaded an x86 version:
PM> Install-Package NQuantLib (<https://www.nuget.org/packages/NQuantLib>)
~~~
mathewrphillips
Nice! Thanks man.
~~~
photon137
You're welcome (I'm pretty sure I've set some sort of a bad precedent here :)
)
------
zaidmo
Perhaps someone can help me with a related capability. I am looking for a tool
to administer and query the price of structured products (options, securities,
indices, etc)
On the administration side: Manage which clients, have been sold which
products, value of the product (notional/sold value) and maturity date. On the
valuation side: link to treasury and banking systems, and various price feeds
to determine current value of structured product.
Is there anything off-the shelf that any of you are aware off?
~~~
photon137
How advanced and how expensive?
Numerix (<http://www.numerix.com/products-and-services>) is one. I've used
them before at my previous job to handle client portfolios.
In general you'd need to have separate licenses with the feed providers
(Reuters/Markit/Bloomberg etc) and those are quite expensive.
~~~
zaidmo
Thanks for the referral. I'll have a look at the website. Our business does
sell and manage some complex products - most of it is managed out of Excel. I
was told to treat this as a low priority (I have a list of solutions I need to
get them), so I'm not sure what their budget is. However, if I believe their
is a business case for them to adopt a new solution, the door is open for me
to make a recommendation
------
Mythbusters
Neat. You should make it an app using the new 2013 excel applications
[http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/office/apps/fp142161...](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/office/apps/fp142161\(v=office.15\))
------
hogu
honest question - does anyone use quantlib in production?
~~~
chollida1
We use it pretty heavily for calculating implied vol and for delta
calculations.
------
porter
who would need to use QuantLib in Excel?
~~~
yeureka
Excel is used quite a lot in the finance sector.
I my previous job I had to write a plugin to allow traders to do some simple
algo trading in Excel.
Oh, and once you are forced to work in VBA all other languages seem amazing.
~~~
jwilliams
+1
I worked for a long time in Finance & Market Data - in Europe (UK/CH mostly).
Most people would be surprised how much of it runs of Excel.
Particularly Fixed Income - a lot of the sophisticated instruments will be
priced straight off Excel spreadsheets (so you use Excel to _publish_ data,
not just analyse it).
~~~
svdad
In fact, most people outside finance would be surprised at how much
sophisticated analysis and interactivity you can build in Excel. Once you
start digging under the hood it's a powerful platform. The only addition you
need is a pricing feed e.g. Bloomberg.
------
chermanowicz
this is pretty neat, thanks for sharing
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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If C++ Objects Are Unrelated, Are They Equal? - AndreyKarpov
http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/if-c-objects-are-unrelated-are-they-equa/240146950
======
Sharlin
A nifty way to implement a lexicographic ordering in C++11:
struct Thing { int a, b; };
bool compare(const Thing& t1, const Thing& t2)
{
return std::tie(t1.a, t1.b) < std::tie(t2.a, t2.b);
}
Basically, this creates two tuples-of-references to the Thing members and
compares the tuples lexicographically. Modern compilers optimize out all the
tuple stuff and emit code basically indistinguishable from a hand-written
variant like the following:
bool compare(const Thing& t1, const Thing& t2)
{
return t1.a < t2.a || (t1.a == t2.a && t1.b < t2.b);
}
~~~
taybin
That's really nice. I haven't written C++ for a while, and certainly not since
std:tie<> became widely available. But I'll keep this in mind if I have to go
down that road again.
------
wnoise
> One of these sets has only a single element, namely 0. The others have two
> elements each:
Except for the other one-element set, containing INT_MIN.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Free MS Exam 70-480 Voucher: Programming in HTML5 with JavaScript and CSS3 - jjkmk
Found this on slickdeals earlier today. Microsoft is offering a free voucher to take their Programming in HTML5 with JavaScript and CSS3 Exam.<p>Find a local testing site at this URL: https://www.prometric.com/en-us/clients/Microsoft/pages/landing.aspx<p>Register for an exam and enter the promo code HTMLJMP
======
UnoriginalGuy
Seems too good to be true. Has anyone heard of Prometric? Why would they be
offering a £99 exam for free?
~~~
tfitzgerald
Prometric is one of the largest certification testing companies there is.
Microsoft is the one giving the test away:
<http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/offers/html5.aspx>.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: I want to leave Instagram, what are the best options? - cyrusradfar
With the recent TOS update and my general fear of them being assimilated in to the Facebook borg, I hoped for some guidance on which apps are the best out there.<p>If you own an app, feel free to share it and why I and others reading should use it. There are a lot of frustrated people that need an option.
======
gee_totes
I'm running a Nokia N900, and I use Classic Print as an alternative to
Instagram. While the Instagram process goes like:
-Start the app, which cues your camera
-Take a photo
-Apply pre-set filter
-Share
The Classic Print app is a bit more complex and linuxy:
-Take a photo with the stock camera app
-Open the Classic Print app
-Navigate the filesystem to open the photo you just took
-Apply the filters manually (there is only one pre-set filter, but you can tweak the filter settings to change color balance, noise, polaroid-style white frame, fading, etc.)
-Save your modified photo
-Open your web browser to navigate and share to various social media sites
While it's not the easiest to use, it is all free and open source.
------
gregcohn
The new Flickr iOS app has pretty much all the features of Instagram. It's
community, long dormant, seems like it's re-awakening. The #1 test for me is,
when I come back to the app, is there new stuff from my friends. The answer so
far seems to be yes.
~~~
cyrusradfar
Great to hear, thanks for the tip!
------
dpaluy
You can just visit this link and close your account
[https://instagram.com/accounts/login/?next=/accounts/remove/...](https://instagram.com/accounts/login/?next=/accounts/remove/request/)
~~~
cyrusradfar
Apologies, if I wasn't clear. I understand "how" to delete it functionally,
was just hoping for tips on where the best up-and-coming network is.
------
evanh
the updated flickr app looks promising. i've been a flickr member for years
but was losing interest the past year or two. the new mobile app might bring
me back.
i'm also considering starting a new tumblr site as a means to sharing my
photos.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Haystack – The only source you need for stock photography - remx
https://www.haystack.im/
======
vachi
Hey everyone,
I am vachi, one of the founders at Haystack.im. Let me know if I can answer
any questions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Yehuda Katz's 10 Favorite Things About Ruby - wifelette
http://yehudakatz.com/2009/08/24/my-10-favorite-things-about-the-ruby-language/
"I work with Ruby every single day, and over time have come to really enjoy using it. Here’s a list of some specific things that I really like about Ruby. Some of them are obvious, and some are shared with other languages. The purpose is to share things I like about Ruby, not to compare and contrast with any specific language."
======
defunkt
Unfortunately _try_ illustrates the exact problem with open classes so many
non-Rubyists are afraid of: collisions.
_try_ was originally defined as:
class Object
def try(method)
send method if respond_to? method
end
end
In Rails it is defined as:
class Object
alias_method :try, :__send__
end
class NilClass
def try(*args)
nil
end
end
The following code will exhibit different behavior depending on which version
of _try_ you're using:
[].try :upcase
For example:
# original try
>> [].try :upcase
=> nil
# rails try
>> [].try :upcase
NoMethodError: undefined method `upcase' for []:Array
If Rails uses _try_ internally, and a Rails plugin you've loaded depends on
the original version of _try_ , what now? They both behave differently and,
presumably, code using them depends on their specific behavior.
Also don't forget the dozen or so other versions of _try_ people have added to
their own plugins and apps...
~~~
dylanz
Articulated perfectly! Any time I'm working on a Rails project, and run into
odd behaviours, the first thing I'll do is check to see if I'm actually using
a Ruby or a Rails method. Most often than not, I'm expecting a "Ruby" way of
doing things, but find out I'm actually using the "Rails" version, which does
something completely different. If I run into any in the next few hours, I'll
post them here :)
~~~
carbon8
It's not really a Ruby vs Rails way of doing things. The Rails implementation
is arguably more in line with the standard Ruby behavior since it throws a
NoMethodError for everything other than Nil objects.
~~~
defunkt
I would argue that, no, there isn't "standard Ruby behavior" in this instance.
It's just a method.
~~~
carbon8
True, they are all just methods, but it's basically just an altered version of
Object#send, and the current Rails implementation only significantly differs
from it in the specific situation it's intended for.
I realize there are a range of preferences regarding ways to tackle the
problem this is intended to solve, and I'm relatively agnostic about the
overall issue, but if the implementation is basically a #send that guards
against nil, then it would be unexpected for it to deviate remarkably from
#send when dealing with non-nil objects.
------
mpk
I love reading articles like this. 8 years or so ago Ruby replaced Perl for me
as my 'go to' language for day-to-day problems. I haven't looked back since.
What other people call 'magic', I call not understanding the language and
execution environment.
For long-running server-side stuff Ruby would not be my first choice, but for
eloquence and scripting capabilities... accept no substitute.
------
tptacek
Not everything in Ruby is a full-fledged class; for instance, you can't extend
Fixnum.
[I am apparently completely wrong here].
~~~
nudded
class Fixnum
def +(other)
42
end
end
3 + 2 => 42
~~~
railsjedi
I try to sneak this into all of my rubygems
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Apple "Back to the Mac" Event Oct. 20: New OS X - hop
http://gizmodo.com/5662920/apple-back-to-the-mac-event-october-20th
======
robgough
And so it begins...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The 8th DO for SaaS startups - Stay on top of your KPIs - marban
http://christophjanz.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-8th-do-for-saas-startups-stay-on.html
======
mattschmulen
Timing couldn't be better, I just happen to be putting together a metrics
board for my start-up.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Get clean readable content from any webpage - bndr
https://github.com/bndr/node-read
======
Theodores
Thanks for posting that, it is exactly what I need.
I want to scrape a diverse selection of web pages for 'the gist' of the main
content purely to put into a solr search engine. At the moment I am doing
surprisingly well just going on the meta descriptions - in essence meta
descriptions should be what I am after - but meaningfully scraped content is
the ideal and what I need if no meta description available.
I am sure you have lots of grand plans for this, however, one thing that I
wish I could do is search through my web history, at a content level.
For instance, earlier today I found some code was no longer working properly.
I could remember bits of the tutorial I needed first time around but finding
it again was a chore (on a narrow subject then every search result from Google
is purple/visited, so you can't immediately identify the link).
If I could have done some 'search my previous browsing history' then I could
have got there a lot quicker. In this 'imaginary search' only the pages that
are kept open and scrolled through get 'internally archived'. There could also
be snapshots of the pages in question in the results as an aid to memory.
Another thing I would like to see done with this type of tool is a sensible
spell check. For decades we have had spell checks in text entry areas but
never on a finished web page. A little widget to show the words with problem
spellings with wavy underlining that would work on any web page would save no
end of woes for people that have to proof read things online. If it also
highlighted sentences too long for good copy that would be very useful too.
Can these sorts of applications be built on what you have here?
P.S. Funny that you wrote this 186 days ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6581317](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6581317)
Times have changed...
~~~
flippyhead
I'm curious, do you use Google History? If so, does it not meet your needs?
------
crashandburn4
Very simple request for the developer, you couldn't put up
screenshots/examples of text that has been extracted along with a (cached)
link so that people can see how it looks without downloading and testing it?
------
willlma
Good to see an OSS version. How does it handle pagination? From my experience
(Pocket, Readability, Readable (now Evernote Clearly), Boilerpipe) that's the
big differentiator. But frankly, with the increased use of media queries, I
find myself using this view less and less, and the only feature I miss is
pagination.
The optimal reading environment on a responsive website is usually the tablet
view. Narrow enough to make jumping lines easy, narrow enough to prevent big
ads on the side columns. I'd love to see a tool that could force media queries
on bigger displays and simply center the text. You'd still get a feel for what
the web designer was going for, but it's much cleaner. On none responsive
sites, it could use the same metrics as this tool to determine which elements
are article elements and simply center them and remove the rest, while
maintaining the fonts, colors... The medium is the message and all that jazz.
------
snipek
Send email message to [email protected] , with a URL in subject line. Then
you'll get a readable email of that web page. You can read it offline on
mobile mail client. That's how I read long web articles these days.
~~~
aleksi
There is also a similar service:
[http://www.ukeeper.com](http://www.ukeeper.com)
~~~
snipek
Good to know. Thanks!
------
kiliankoe
Thank you for this, I just started using node-readability for a project and
I'll gladly give this a spin. The second url [0] I tried passing it however
unfortunately returned an empty body. node-readability is able to parse the
contents of tagesschau.de seemingly without problems.
[0] [http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/krise-in-der-
ostukraine112....](http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/krise-in-der-
ostukraine112.html)
~~~
bndr
Thanks! It may be encoding problem, I'll take a look at it today.
------
rpedela
How does this compare to Apache Tika?
------
kephra
I did not read the source, but have a question:
How do you deal with web pages, where the content is dynamically created using
javascript/ajax? Do you execute this JS, or just ignore this growing
antipattern?
~~~
grimtrigger
Are dynamically created websites actually common with text-heavy web _sites_?
I've only seen them on interaction-heavy web _apps_.
~~~
dredmorbius
Blogger (dynamic templates) and Business Insider are two that come to mind as
suspects. Both render blank pages in Chrome w/ JS disabled.
------
TD-Linux
This reminds me of Firefox Mobile's reader mode - something I find invaluable.
Unfortunately they don't seem to have a desktop equivalent, yet.
~~~
atopal
Reader mode for desktop is coming (no specific version targeted though). Here
is the bug:
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558882](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558882)
And here are the mock-ups:
[http://people.mozilla.org/~mmaslaney/readermode/index.html](http://people.mozilla.org/~mmaslaney/readermode/index.html)
------
bgnm2000
would love to see this as a bookmarklet (that hits the user's npm) for demo
purposes
~~~
bndr
I'm not sure I understand what you mean with "that hits the user's npm"
~~~
jzig
He means a button he can press in the browser that does the work for him.
------
earwolf
Pagination. Comments. Profit.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The British Virgin Islands’ Struggle to Protect Its Dark Offshore Economy - ucha
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-07-03/the-bvi-s-struggle-to-protect-its-dark-offshore-economy
======
darawk
> Not surprisingly, many people in Road Town argue there are perfectly
> legitimate reasons to use a jurisdiction such as the BVI. The Panama Papers
> leak revealed, for example, that British actress Emma Watson bought her
> London house with a BVI company to prevent stalkers from tracing where she
> lives.
> But transparency threatens none of that.
It sure seems like transparency threatens Emma Watson's use case...
~~~
dgacmu
But we can and should have onshore mechanisms - convince a judge you need it,
get an onshore anonymous trust whose details are sealed except to law/tax.
Seems like a darn good idea, in fact.
(This is where a lawyer steps in and points out that something like this
already exists, right? I know nothing about British law...)
~~~
malandrew
> get an onshore anonymous trust whose details are sealed except to law/tax
So you want to give government the unilateral right to determine who merits
anonymity. What could possibly go wrong?
~~~
dgacmu
Well, it might be preferable to protecting only the super-rich. :)
but, just as seriously, it's not clear that we actually value anonymous
property ownership when it has serious repercussions for our tax base and
things like holding properties vacant. (See Vancouver). It's just another
place that we have to walk a careful line between individual rights and not
causing huge social problems.
------
motohagiography
I'd argue any article about "tax havens," that does not include a section on
SPVs for insurance and other securities is un-serious agitprop. The
"trillions" of dollars of assets registered in these countries is mainly
collateral that secures agreements and contracts that yield income that gets
taxed in the country where it is ultimately realized.
Writing about these countries without addressing how mainstream financial
instruments work should be treated as very revealing.
~~~
justincormack
There is no reason SPVs shouldn’t be supported onshore.
~~~
motohagiography
I'd say they cannot work onshore because it just substitutes a transparency
problem with a much more complex harmonization problem for rules across
borders, which creates new arbitrages and political leverage points. The
offshore situation we've had for a couple hundred years now is a case of
better the devil you know. The rules in haven countries are established,
clear, and provide a foundation for all the value in international trade. The
only problem is it limits the total dominion of one group via surveillance,
which I think is a feature, not a bug.
For Special Purpose Vehicles to work onshore, you need something like income
trusts, which barely exist anymore because of people who write articles like
the one above. It is a custodian with limited liability that does not pay tax,
so that you can hold assets in it and invest them to preserve the availability
of the principle after a trigger event. Governments hated them because they
diverted money out of income tax flows, and it is more politically expedient
to solve revenue problems instead of spending ones. I think this aspect of the
system works, and this sort of lazy propaganda needs to be recognized for what
it is. I respect there are other views on this, but they should be held to a
standard of financial literacy this article did not meet.
~~~
pudo
To say that the current system works (its current form is a few decades old at
best) is to ignore the massive impact that secrecy jurisdictions have on
virtually all developing countries. Offshores are used there to facilitate the
extraction of trillions in wealth that often is directly stolen from public
resource (such as direct tax revenue, procurement contracts, and, natural
resource concessions).
Of course you can argue that any financial problem the public sector has is
always a spending problem and never one with the tax base, but that strikes me
as a fringe political opinion, and particularly as not a decision that the
people of Ghana, Russia, or Ukraine got to make for themselves. Perhaps
they're not small government ideologues and would actually prefer to have
health care and schools.
Justifying all this by saying that very wealthy and powerful people and
corporations need privacy to protect them is pretty cynical.
(Disclaimer: I'm an enthusiastic contributor to "lazy propaganda" like this)
~~~
motohagiography
The problem these and other less democratic countries have is that the
government can stay in power using resource extraction wealth to pay their
police and armies and they do not rely on direct taxation for their revenues.
The reason the people do not have a say in how money gets spent is because
there is no political reason to ask them. See De Mesquita and Smith on that
dynamic.
The problem for developing countries is not foreign bank "secrecy," (a
presumptuous term itself) it's their domestic resource curse and other
governments propping these leaders up. For these third party countries to
decline to sign surveillance agreements and tax treaties that disadvantage
them is not "secrecy," its sovereignty.
Attacking the sovereignty of financial centres is a sordid attempt to bar the
exits and prevent capital flight when large state governments impose ever more
wealth destroying policies to buy votes.
If by "fringe," you mean that solving the spending problem before the revenue
problem is beneath discourse - the policy makers of every Tory, Republican,
and Conservative party in the western world would probably like to have a
word. As would a number of Liberal parties as well. Contributing to lazy
propaganda that advocates for soaking "the rich," seems rather more a fringe
activity, and further, if it does not include an understanding of the
mechanisms of finance, one that is intellectually dishonest at that.
~~~
pudo
You're mixing a few things up here. The set of countries that are affected by
the resource curse, and those dealing in financial secrecy (what else would
you call it?), are disjoint.
The phenomena are linked through money laundering: wealth generated from state
capture in one country does not want to stay in the politically and
economically unstable environment it has helped create. It therefore needs to
be channeled into the western financial system, the UK or Europe. That's done
using shell companies in the BVI, CY, SY, LUX, MT, CH, KN etc. This way
financial secrecy creates impunity, where the wealth taken from developing
countries evades domestic accountability.
Examples: the Aliyevs, Dos Santos, Karimova, Yanukovych, Roldugin, the cabinet
of Goodluck Jonathan, and even the Guptas.
It's also a bit weird to describe this as in issue of BVI sovereignty. The BVI
government is run by a governor appointed by the British queen on advice from
the British government. It basically duck types as a colony. The same is even
more true for IOM, GG, JE. If only there were some explanation for why it
benefits the UK to have half a dozen financial secrecy jurisdictions in its
sphere of influence. The system is clearly all about sovereignty.
Finally, I did not say that discussing spending was beneath discourse --
merely arguing that governments doing taxation was pretty much what makes them
governments. Otherwise it's a golf club.
I'll remain eternally grateful for any further explanations of the mechanisms
of finance and their benevolence you may have to offer.
~~~
motohagiography
There _is_ no domestic accountability in those kleptocratic countries
precisely because their governments do not make the majority of their revenues
from a personal income tax base. I have doubts about the sincerity of western
people who seem so terribly concerned about victimized peoples in distant
countries when the net effect of the policies they advocate are really about
domestic wealth redistribution. The kind of sanctimonious moral arbitrage that
exploits "the people," of these countries as a pretext for influencing
domestic policy with sob stories is utterly disingenuous.
Kleptocrats gonna klepto, and the reason they can is they can afford to pay
the military to keep them in power, with funds that come from resources or
puppeteer empires. Offering gratitude without demonstrating understanding or
any meaningful benefit just tells people their shared experience was wasted on
you.
~~~
pudo
So to be clear: "Kleptocrats gonna klepto" is the deep "understanding of the
mechanisms of finance" and the cure to "lazy propaganda" that you advertise
for?
Beyond that, thanks for going full ad hominem.
~~~
motohagiography
If by ad hominem you mean in regard to the disingenuous and sanctimonious
basis for many arguments against the sovereignty of financial centres, it is
in reference to the quality of argument, and mere sarcasm is not moral high
ground. Regarding the mechanisms of finance, I heartily recommend reading up
on topics like insurance linked securities, catastrophe bonds, and other event
driven insurance contracts that require managing long term collateral.
I'll leave any final words on the topic to you.
------
ptah
strange that the locals don't benefit at all
~~~
c256
The piece suggests that the (relative to taxes) small fees they charge make up
a very large part of the government’s income.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Intercom Raises $35M - dh
http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/26/intercom-series-c/
======
jjgreen
Fantastic product, well deserved.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How will Microsoft-Skype deal affect the Linux client? - jagtesh
======
chalst
The better question is: how will it affect the Windows client? Don Marti
writes: _Really, this is good news. While users are trying to figure out
whether to download "Skype Live Small Business Edition" or "Skype For Windows
Professional Platinum 7.0", some startup will eat their lunch._
<http://zgp.org/~dmarti/business/msft-skype-news/>
------
lostbit
If they focus on market share coverage, I think they will maintain Skype for
Linux the same way there is skype for other OSs (including mobile). At the end
of the day, revenues are made through the paid subscriptions. The software is
more a mean to get the service.
------
beatpanda
They're going to ruin it and turn it into a piece of shit, along with the
Windows and OS X clients, like everything else Microsoft touches.
So pissed to read this today. Skype was really, really useful, and then they
had to go and sell out. What a shame.
------
staunch
They'll neglect/break/kill it.
Ubuntu scares them. Less than web apps or OSX, but it still scares them.
~~~
Foredecker
No, Microsoft is not king to kill/neglect/break it. Ubuntu does not scare us
one little teeny tiny little bit. Linux desktop client is just a non-starter,
still, after years and years of effort. Yes, _you_ can use it. But its not
anywhere near ready for several hundred million users. The only ohter credible
desktop OS besides Windows is OSX.
------
abcd_f
Depends on how many supernodes are Linux machines, which I would guess is
quite a lot.
------
wmf
Maybe Miguel will take it over.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Women Slowly Shifting to Higher-Paying College Majors - Bostonian
https://www.wsj.com/articles/women-slowly-shifting-to-higher-paying-college-majors-study-says-11570179600?mod=rsswn
======
Bostonian
The paper is [https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/a-cross-cohort-
analys...](https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/a-cross-cohort-analysis-of-
human-capital-specialization-and-the-college-gender-wage-gap/) "A Cross-Cohort
Analysis of Human Capital Specialization and the College Gender Wage Gap" by
Carolyn Sloane, Erik Hurst, and Dan Black.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ken Burns Tackles Lincoln, Education and Money in 'The Address' - ewood
http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2014/04/15/303210779/ken-burns-tackles-lincoln-education-and-money-in-the-address
======
ivancamilov
I half expected to see the image in the article to slowly pan and zoom.
~~~
McGlockenshire
It shouldn't surprise anyone to find multiple jquery libraries to make the
effect, such as
[https://github.com/toymakerlabs/kenburns](https://github.com/toymakerlabs/kenburns)
------
udev
This is an amazing documentary on several levels:
cinematically beautiful, even though, you'd expect to see just people talking.
inspiring subject matter - watch out for your 'feels' when you see those kids
with learning disabilities working their way through Lincoln's Address.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The long process of creating a Chinese font - f14ist
http://qz.com/522079/the-long-incredibly-tortuous-and-fascinating-process-of-creating-a-chinese-font/
======
Ericson2314
I've always hated the mingti--serif comparison. Mingti looks too artificial
and beholden to technology (woodblock printing) for that to hold up. And kaiti
likewise is too caligraphic and human to fit the bill either. With both of
those constrained by their orignal medium enough to count as skeuomorphism---
call me out on bias as a western or non-mason, but serifs don't evoke stone-
inscribing as obviously to me---I was about to give up and say there is no
serif analog.
But what font is this? [https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/yan-
rad1.png](https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/yan-rad1.png) (from the
article), is definitely not JinXuan, and I think is the "most serif" Chinese
font I've seen. It's definitely a Kaiti first and foremost, which I consider a
necessary traditionalism for this analogy. Yet, the general boxiness of the
strokes, especially the cusps on the corner of the boxes/kou3, defy the
practicalities of brush-strokes (e.g.. harder to do tangency-breaks) and evoke
the "cuspiness" of serifs.
~~~
be5invis
The shown one is some variant of Weibei (魏碑).
~~~
Ericson2314
Thanks!
------
amake
An interesting article. I am very glad for the recent flourishing of CJK
fonts, both paid and free (see e.g. Noto fonts including Noto CJK[1])
Some feedback:
> Here an Arphic edit suggests aligning the bottom of the character 磋 with its
> top part, writing in red ink, “don’t shift right.” The character, as it
> happens, is cuo, and means “error.”
1\. The character in the image is 蹉, not 磋.
2\. The red edit text says 下偏右 = "the bottom is shifted right", not 不偏右 =
"don't shift right".
[1]
[https://www.google.com/get/noto/help/cjk/](https://www.google.com/get/noto/help/cjk/)
~~~
nsonnad
Author here. Thanks for the comments, I have fixed both points. The first one
I assure you was just a typo, the second, I read too quickly and could have
sworn there was another stroke there originally...
~~~
amake
> I read too quickly and could have sworn there was another stroke there
> originally
Funny how the meaning ended up basically the same either way.
I'm reminded of a situation where I made a similar mistake (misread one
character for another) but the meaning ended up the opposite: There was a
hotel room listing that noted 设有电视 ("equipped with TV"). At the time
simplified hanzi were still a bit new to me, so I misread ⻈ as ⺡ and thus in
my mind it became 没有电视 ("has no TV").
I thought this was an odd thing to advertise, but that maybe it was simply a
cultural difference.
~~~
jiyinyiyong
As a Chinese I would say "带电视" or "配有电视", rather than "设有电视".
------
LiweiZ
How about comparing with Japanese font? I worked in branding in China. I was
told many modern inspirations are from Japanese work. IMHO as a Chinese, they
generally have much better taste for art in China.
~~~
be5invis
Most Chinese fonts contain more Han glyphs compared to Japanese, especially
traditional. Most traditional Chinese fonts will have over 10,000 glyphs,
while simplified are about 7,000. Many foundaries will create a even larger
one, with over 22,000 glyphs in a single typeface.
~~~
LiweiZ
If starting from scratch, yes, it could be very different and requires much
more work. However, in many cases, I highly doubt this is what happened.
------
IgorPartola
I know nothing of these subjects so I ask: is there any advantage to the
typography and scrip system that is simplified Chinese vs a small alphabet a
la Latin or Cyrillic?
~~~
nsonnad
Hello, I'm the author of this piece. It's a very good question, and the answer
may simply be that script systems are inferior, but anecdotally I would say
there are two advantages:
First, it makes the etymology of the script is very apparent. Often etymology
in for example English is very obscure, and requires great leaps of
imagination and inference to make the connections. Compare that to the
character 灣 referred to in the piece, which means "bay" and contains the
"water radical." The etymology can be made more clear in this way.
Second, the script is agnostic to how the characters are pronounced. This is
what has allowed it to be used for several languages in China (often
inaccurately referred to as "dialects")—which are often pronounced completely
differently—for hundreds of years.
That said, there are clearly many, many disadvantages, and the main thing
preventing change may simply be inertia.
~~~
azernik
It can also, as my Japanese textbook pointed out, be faster to read if you're
familiar with the characters in a body of text. Like the difference between
reading "one hundred forty-three" vs "143". It's the input that kills you.
But I think computer/smartphone semi-phonetic input kind of gets you the best
of both worlds.
~~~
gozur88
I'm skeptical of the "quick to read" argument. An educated Chinese speaker
generally knows something in the neighborhood of 5,000 characters ("full
literacy" is supposed to be 3k-4k), which is far less than readers of phonetic
systems (20k-35k). Unless you're a professional writer of some variety you're
going to spend more time looking up words in Chinese.
~~~
gizmo686
I am not familiar with Chinese, but in Japanese, the characters do not
necessarily map 1 to 1 with words, so you have some words that are composed of
multiple characters. For example, "adult" would be written as 大人, which are
the characters "big" and "person".
~~~
jessriedel
Sure, but the script speed-reading advantage only comes at the level of having
single symbols for single meaning. Once you need to combine symbols to get the
(additional) meanings, you're not any faster than phonetics.
------
Xophmeister
This may not be in the 'spirit' of typography, but to me it seems like font
creation ought to be automatable, to some degree. Artistic flourishes may have
to be added in post-production, but the basic shapes (whether Latin or Chinese
or whatever) with maybe some constraint engine or machine learning to get the
kerning, etc. right could be bulk generated, parameterised by brush style and
dynamics and anything else that can be simulated.
~~~
galago
It is automated. Also a lot of fonts are basically built off of other fonts.
There are automation tools to systematically alter them. To do quality work, a
lot of manual adjustment is necessary.
[http://doc.robofont.com/documentation/welcome-to-
robofont/](http://doc.robofont.com/documentation/welcome-to-robofont/)
Chinese typesetting software had traditionally included a glyph editor so that
one could add a character that isn't supported by a font. However, that's not
something people want to do very often. It also involves re-inventing the
wheel. Its better if one team spends years making the font comprehensive and
well designed.
~~~
derefr
> To do quality work, a lot of manual adjustment is necessary.
But should that adjustment result in manual one-off changes, or should it
result in a new tweak being taught to a system that can then apply it anywhere
else that problem happens?
In other words, why can't we build fonts the way we build Text-to-Speech
voices?
~~~
kijin
Text-to-speech voices sound pretty awkward. To make them sound less awkward,
you have to either tweak the software for all sorts of special cases or pre-
record a bunch of phrases. Both of these take a lot of manpower.
Fonts are the same, except they're used by many more people and last much
longer than that brief moment when your text-to-speech software stumbles on an
uncommon combination of words.
I'm sure that the technology will rapidly improve as more and more Chinese
fonts are needed, but as long as AI remains inferior to humans in some way, I
don't see it getting all automated.
------
ppinyin
why chinese is so damn hard?
([http://pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html](http://pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html))
------
markbao
Fascinating article – and they did a great job with the Optima-inspired
typeface. I'm not usually a fan of Optima, but as a Chinese font, it looks
really fresh amidst the more boring traditional fonts.
------
keithnoizu
That seems like something you could partially mitigate by vectorizing fonts
and applying transformation and brush stroke rules to generate a base font you
could then tweak as appropriate. Eg. Rules for how pronounced curves should
be, serifs, spacing. Etc.
------
olewhalehunter
there are radicals and stroke patterns that can be recorded as chains of
geometric macros and plugged into common reverse stroke-to-text tools found
online, adjusting parameters or introducing custom paint motifs on this would
produce fonts trivially; text character dictionary -> lookup in stroke
recognizer -> algorithmic painting around strokes
------
danso
So what's the Chinese script equivalent of Helvetica vs. Arial, if there is
one?
~~~
jcyw
The most well known ones would be Sung and Ming, and Ching. Emphasis are on
ratio of width of horizontal or vertical strokes. And they are always sans,
with little triangle at the end of strokes.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Feedback tool built to give you data-backed insights on your + and - - alexragalie
https://rethinker.com
======
alexragalie
We’ve built Rethinker as a platform to help people develop faster and get more
fulfilling jobs.
Our first product is called Rethinker Feedback, and is built on a Ray Dalio-
like belief that society is moving towards a place where knowing your
strengths and weaknesses in a data-driven way will be amongst the only ways to
keep competitive.
We’ve received so far a range of feedback on the app, from ppl who abhor the
idea of being “gamified” all the way to people who think something like this
will never work in the work place. There’s also the group he believes nobody
will give you negative feedback on a consistent basis due to social dynamics.
What do you think? Are people ready to give/receive feedback in a manner which
“rates” personality and capabilities, baseball card-style?
P.S- we’ve also just been featured by ProductHunt
([https://www.producthunt.com/posts/rethinker](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/rethinker)),
supposedly more for the cute dog pic than for the product itself, but who’s
counting? :P
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Startups should not use React - nbmh
https://medium.com/@raulk/if-youre-a-startup-you-should-not-use-react-reflecting-on-the-bsd-patents-license-b049d4a67dd2
======
cbhl
It's worth noting this "you can't sue us for violating your patents if you use
our non-free open source software" is working as designed.
Facebook claims that if _every_ company adopted a React-like license, that
software patents as we know it would basically die. It's worth noting that
both Google and Facebook's patent lawyers are generally of the opinion that
software patents are net bad, but differ in their opinions of how to express
that intent without exposing their companies to additional risk from patent
trolls.
If you want to be acquired, then this is the opposite of what you want. You
file patents for every part of the product you can; you audit your
dependencies to avoid copyleft (AGPL and GPL) and React-like licenses, so your
software can be folded into a 100% closed source product or shut down or
whatever your acquirer wants.
If you run a start-up, and you're worried about the React license, you should
be speaking to your own legal counsel about the best way forward.
~~~
raulk
If Facebook's approach is so great, by introducing a legal provision in the
OSS license, how come it has not been adopted by any other company except for
Palantir, despite being introduced in 2014?
I analysed 75+ OSS projects from 35 companies, and Facebook is practically
alone.
[https://medium.com/@raulk/list-of-companies-and-popular-
proj...](https://medium.com/@raulk/list-of-companies-and-popular-projects-by-
the-open-source-licenses-they-use-35a53eaf1c80)
~~~
web007
I commented elsewhere on this, but how about CDDL? IANAL but it seems to do
the same thing, patent poison pill in the event of suit.
~~~
raulk
CDDL includes a "weak patent retaliation" clause [1], meaning you only lose
the grant if you initiate a patent infringement claim within the context of
the project, i.e. saying that the project you have adopted infringes a patent
of yours.
And even if you do, the revocation takes effect in 60 days, which is pretty
friendly IMHO.
[1]
[http://en.swpat.org/wiki/CDDL_and_patents](http://en.swpat.org/wiki/CDDL_and_patents)
------
pluma
Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't
understand.
Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what
you're talking about and shut up.
The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from
patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the
Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle.
Unless you actually know
1) which patents Facebook holds and
2) which patents are relevant to each framework/library (i.e. React and
various its alternatives)
stop giving people legal advice about which library they should be using.
The cosmic irony would be if Facebook didn't hold any patents covering React
to begin with but DID hold patents covering parts of Angular, Ember, Vue and
Preact, over which they can sue who they like because Facebook never gave them
a patent grant for those. Sounds far-fetched? It isn't because we don't know
which actual patents these could be and who holds them.
Or for all you know Google might sue you. Or Apple.
This isn't a discussion, this is literally just a bunch of nerds ranting on
the Internet about problems they don't sufficiently understand, playing Three
Blind Men with the elephant that is Software Patents.
~~~
emilfihlman
_You_ should stop, immediately. Attempting to silence an issue because people
are not experts on the issue is beyond immoral.
Please reflect on how you are hurting everyone, not helping.
~~~
pluma
There isn't an issue. The issue is software patents.
What's hurting people is self-proclaimed experts writing authoritative blog
posts about what technologies people should chose and presenting it as if it
were legal advice.
This entire drama is a 100% repeat of what pops up on almost a monthly basis
because some random developer finds out about Facebook's open source patent
grant and decides he has an opinion without even understanding the basic
underlying concepts.
There are legitimate issues worth discussing, especially around the notion of
open source purism (i.e. whether React should migrate to the Apache license to
make it more compatible). But instead of having these discussions we get
ridiculous unfounded opinion pieces by yet another "dude with an opinion" who
didn't even bother validating his basic premises.
------
franciscop
The author is making assumptions about what Open Source is and what should or
shouldn't be. While many developers would like Open Source to be about
"creating communities to build better software together" (myself included),
open source just means that everyone can read the code.
Different developers and companies might use Open Source for different reason,
included but not limited to: reduce Q&A, brand relevance, increase hiring
power, strategic positioning, ideals that code should be _libre_, etc. Some
companies and devs might even want several of those!
In this line, Facebook is a private corporation who I think we all agree their
main reason for releasing React.js or any code at all doesn't seem to be
purely idealistic. I would say strategic position (the best tool in the dev
world, notably against Angular) and increasing their hiring power are really
high within their reasons to release Open Source.
It is patently absurd to tell companies what to do and patronizing to tell
developers what to do. Also, something that I don't see anyone arguing
for/against is why so many big companies, even ones competing with Facebook,
can use React.js freely and without worries? It's a point that anyone arguing
against React is conveniently ignoring but I'd love to hear about.
~~~
mhw
I don't disagree with your general point, but I don't think we can ascribe a
singular objective to Facebook as an entire organisation.
It was quite clear from the discussion around the recent github issue asking
them to consider relicensing that there are many parties internal to Facebook
with a say in the decision, and it's unlikely they all agree on everything.
The React developer's motives for releasing React as open source are probably
more along the lines of "creating communities to build better software
together", and there are obviously others within Facebook who are motivated by
protecting Facebook from lawsuits. What we see on the outside is the resulting
compromise. See Dan Abramov's comments in the issue, particularly [1] & [2]
1:
[https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191#issuecomment-...](https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191#issuecomment-316223034)
2:
[https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191#issuecomment-...](https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191#issuecomment-316739812)
~~~
franciscop
Sure, I totally agree. What I tried to express is that there is probably a
hiring and brand push as well for keeping React Open Source, not that it is
the only one.
------
scandox
Trust. Trust. Trust and Trust again. My brain becomes exhausted within seconds
of reading a licence. Not just because I'm lazy, but because I know that
however closely I think I'm reading it, I probably won't be reading it closely
enough to be 100% sure of my conclusions (viz. the differences of opinion here
from people that actually have read this thing).
So what do I do? I trust certain organisations and I don't trust others.
No-one in their right mind can trust Facebook. You might as well trust the
Ocean.
~~~
pluma
Here's an idea: if you intend to lock people into a technology so you can sue
them later, would you
a) build a small library that encourages modular code, has tons of escape
hatches to use other libraries and has so few concepts it actually encourages
learning the language and solving problems outside the library instead? Or
b) build a large monolith that comes with dozens of idiosyncratic concepts and
its own way to solve every problem so you build your entire application inside
of it?
If I was a patent troll, I would create Angular, not React.
I don't trust Google, I don't trust Facebook, I don't trust Tilde, I don't
trust Evan You. But at least with React I'm not deeply invested in non-
transferable knowledge and have easy migration paths if I ever need to move
away from it.
~~~
scandox
Probably why I'm still using Backbone - and actively pondering other options!
~~~
pluma
You think there aren't patents covering Backbone?
Or _any_ other part of your applications?
~~~
scandox
My concern isn't with Patents per se. It's mainly with the good faith of the
originator of a particular piece of code. I mean yes there could be Patents
covering everything and anything I ever do, but how would I assess such a
thing. I haven't got much control over that side of things.
However, I can exercise judgement on the source. And my judgement on Facebook
is that I never saw them do anything I liked.
------
sheetjs
There was a time when React was Apache v2!
[https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/3bbed150ab58a07b0c4fa...](https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/3bbed150ab58a07b0c4faf64126b4c9349eecfea/LICENSE)
shows that license.
Has anyone seriously explored forking React from the last Apache v2 version?
~~~
chrisco255
If they published React under Apache v2 at one point in time, how can they
later re-release under a new license and claim patent rights on it then?
Since, assuming whatever patents they own covered this version of React as
well...wouldn't that be considered prior art?
~~~
hdra
From what I understood, It is not a patent on React. As far as I can tell
nothing about React is patented... and that is not the discussion over the
past few days has been about.
This whole shebang has nothing to do with React itself, or the "technology"
that React uses or anything, but more about the way many FB's open source
libraries are licensed, one of which is React.
The license specify that you are free to use React as you would use a BSD
licensed software, provided that you never sue FB for a patent. That means, if
you use React, and you happen to own a patent for something that FB utilises,
you can't sue FB without losing your React license. So, your option is either
suck it up and let FB use your patented thing for free, or rewrite your
software to take React out of it, and then proceed with the lawsuit.
~~~
Lazare
> That means, if you use React, and you happen to own a patent for something
> that FB utilises, you can't sue FB without losing your React license.
Correction: Without losing your license to use any _patents_ on React.
Which...
> As far as I can tell nothing about React is patented...
I agree. Which means the entire issue is a huge paper tiger; you lose your
right to use something that doesn't seem to exist.
~~~
hdra
I wouldn't say it's entirely paper tiger though, given that it also discourage
you from exercising any patent you have against Facebook, no matter how
legitimate the patent is.
I'm neither a native English speaker nor a lawyer to really understand the
wording in the legalese, or if it only cover software patent or patents in
general, but I think that clause is pretty broad.
~~~
Lazare
Here's the thing:
If you have a potential patent claim against Facebook (or any other large
entity) you know that they will, as a matter of course, dig through their
enormous stockpile of patents looking for some counter-claims to make the
second you file. Given the size of that stockpile, they're probably going to
end up with a sizeable stack, so you need to engage in some serious due
diligence before filing to evaluate the strength of your claims and the
strength of their likely claims.
All the React patent grant means is that, _IF_ this happens, they can add any
React-based patents to the pile, if any exist. I rather suspect that there
_are_ no React-based patents, but it doesn't really matter if they are,
because statistically speaking, it's not going to materially change the size
of the stack. (Not using React entirely also won't materially change the size
of the stack; any hypothetical React patents probably apply to whatever
hypothetical non-React tech you used instead.)
> it also discourage you from exercising any patent you have against Facebook
No, what discourages you from exercising a patent against Facebook is that
_they 're Facebook_, and they have vastly more money, lawyers, and patents
than you do. The potential React patents are the least of your worries.
------
jasonkester
I really like the idea behind this license.
They want to see a world where software patents no longer exist. So they write
a term into their licensing that makes it really difficult for people who _do_
like software patents to use their stuff.
I think I will move my projects over to a similar license. The only thing I
would change would be to broaden it to invalidate if your company sued
_anybody_ over _any_ patent.
If everybody did that, maybe software patents would finally go away.
~~~
imtringued
>Facebook claims that if every company adopted a React-like license, that
software patents as we know it would basically die.
If you think patents shouldn't exist then why is the purpose of the license to
protect a single company from patent lawsuits. Why isn't the license covering
any patent lawsuits of any kind to any party like the ASL does? Why does the
license only protect facebook? What if there are patents that apply to react
that facebook doesn't own? Patent trolls can't sue facebook but they can still
sue users of react and continue to use react.
>If everybody did that, maybe software patents would finally go away. No
because facebook can still sue you for other software patents for internal
software they didn't release.
Facebook's patent grant is a halfassed solution. They are either outright
malicious and merely acting in self interest or blatantly incompetent. But
since they are unwilling to change the license and patent grant I'm betting on
the former.
~~~
nojvek
Facebook's licence is as half assed as the free Internet they wanted to bring
into India and some African countries. It only benefits Facebook and comes
with strings attached.
------
vim_wannabe
Does this mean I should primarily use services from startups that use React,
so that they won't get acquired and the service shut down?
~~~
chippy
Also keep monitoring them for when they unviel their latest UI change for
usability improvements which sublty removes React for some other framework.
This change would be the canary in the mine and would probably be accompanied
by changes in terms of use / privacy policy with some subtle word changes. One
could almost imagine this monitoring being automated... if it could be backed
up with data!
------
matthewmacleod
FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD.
There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and
sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they
granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there
are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React.
If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all
of the popular alternatives almost certainly infringe on them as well. So, the
worst-case scenario is no different.
~~~
tchaffee
> AFAIK
Should I tell that to my investors? That AFA matthewmacleod on HN knows, we
are good?
> then all of the popular alternatives almost certainly infringe on them as
> well.
But the lawsuit would be against those alternatives directly and not my
company? I'm not sure about this, but I'm not also sure why we should be
taking advice about this issue from non-experts.
~~~
leshow
You could easily use this argument against the writer of the original blog
post. "Someone wrote a blog post saying React's license is bad"
~~~
tchaffee
That's a fair point. We really need some patent and license lawyers to weigh
in on this and willing to put some skin in the game. I think Facebook should
also be willing to change the license to clarify intent so they can't later
use the license to do something other than what they claim they want to do:
make software patents useless.
~~~
EdwardMSmith
An IP lawyer has: [https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-
revok...](https://medium.com/@dwalsh.sdlr/react-facebook-and-the-revokable-
patent-license-why-its-a-paper-25c40c50b562)
~~~
tchaffee
Thanks. I'm already aware of that article. What I meant by some skin in the
game is the opposite of what the author included at the end of that article:
"Disclaimer: As with everything in law, I reserve the right to throw every
word out like yesterday’s newspaper if presented with new information or a
recent decision by a non-caffeinated judge. Hubris and the law make for bad
bedfellows. If you have information or arguments that I didn’t consider, make
them below! I will update this blog if any new information changes my
opinion."
------
chrisco255
Do most software startups even have patentable technology? I'm rather curious
about this. Most consumer and SaaS apps I know of are built on non-patented
software so I generally question this advice.
The fridge example was a case in point of how ridiculously low the odds of any
company getting into patent litigation with Facebook are. To go to battle with
FB you're gonna need millions and it's going to take years. That's not a light
decision.
~~~
snarfy
It's purely anecdata but I've worked for a dozen different companies in my
career. The only companies that are still around today are the companies that
had patents.
~~~
chrisco255
I worked for a $5 billion 25 year old company that had no patents to its name
(until this year). What matters is execution and distribution, above and
beyond patents, especially in software.
------
danielrhodes
Are companies getting asked about React in M&A due diligence or has any lawyer
recommended this, because otherwise this post is pure clickbait.
~~~
rtpg
code licenses come up in even simple funding rounds. IP happens in due
diligence to avoid "oh actually this one freelancer owns all the code"-style
situations.
------
thomyorkie
> If all giants agreed to open source under the “BSD + patents” scheme, cross-
> adoption would grind to a halt. Why? If Google released Project X under “BSD
> + Patents”, and Amazon really liked it, rather than adopting it and losing
> their right to ever sue Google for patents, they would go off and build it
> on their own.
This seems like a reasonable argument, but it doesn't seem to have deterred
several big name companies from using React. Airbnb, netflix, and dropbox for
example.
~~~
chaostheory
Developers are not lawyers, and developers and lawyers don't talk to each
other all the time. I wonder how many of those companies even bothered to
check the license, given how fast they have to move? I've been guilty of that
as well in the past.
~~~
traek
> I wonder how many of those companies even bothered to check the license,
> given how fast they have to move?
Airbnb, Netflix, and Dropbox? I guarantee you all of those companies have
lawyers that reviewed the license.
~~~
chaostheory
Sure they have lawyers, but I highly doubt they reviewed it and I don't blame
them since open source licenses have been pretty vanilla for over a decade
now. The only companies that actually even really reviewed open source in
terms of legal implications were extremely risk averse ones like the
telecoms... in the 90s and early 2000s. Of course I could be wrong especially
if any of those companies use a tool that checks licenses (I have my doubts).
------
pluma
Aside from the validity of the article's claims about patents (see my other
tirades about that) I'm not sure the point even makes sense.
React, the library, is at its core a glorified templating system. It provides
plenty of escape hatches that make migration as well as inclusion of foreign
UI components and libraries a breeze. It's stupidly simple to migrate away
from.
If you are a high valuation startup looking to get acquired for your
technology (rather than acquihired) I find it extremely unlikely your
valuation hinges on your frontend code. And even if it does I find it
extremely unlikely your frontend is tied so closely to React you won't be able
to spend, say, 1MM replacing React with Vue or what have you (maybe at the
cost of a little pizzazz).
If your frontend is animation-heavy, that likely doesn't live in React land.
If your frontend is mostly static, it should be trivial to replace React as
well.
If your startup is valuable, being sued over some frontend library is probably
the least of your concerns. If the company looking to acquire you has enough
cash in the bank to sue Facebook, they have far more than enough cash in the
bank to replace React.
~~~
thepompano
Just throwing this out there - replacing an entire front-end monolith
framework in large part depends on the size/scale of the application, and how
well it was implemented to begin with.
~~~
pluma
Okay, so maybe the recommendation should be "build your app around the
assumption you may have to swap individual dependencies out in the future".
Amazingly enough, this recommendation is also beneficial if it turns out there
are patents covering Angular, Vue or Ember.
------
amelius
I'm _not_ using React for _another_ reason. I don't agree with the way they
treat their users (i.e., as a product).
------
npad
What happened to the "software patents are ridiculous and should never be
granted" argument?
Now it seems that the same sort of people advancing the anti-patent argument
are angry about FB's licence. This seems like pretty muddled thinking.
~~~
matt4077
It seems like the times have changed in that regard. If you hung around on
slashdot in the 2000s, it was commonly accepted that software patents are bad,
and that the GPL was more good than bad.
Now, it appears there are many people thinking they will at some point get
filthy rich with their patents. And I've frequently seen the GPL being derided
as some sort of communist plot.
It's good to see that at least the large companies are still on the side of
openness, although I fear what will happen when today's commentators become
tomorrow's CEOs. Imagine something like the nodejs ecosystem, except now
you'll have to buy a $1000/year subscription to the "node modules starter
edition".
------
hoodoof
"So you've sewn up the market eh? Here's your check for $500million."
"But don't you want to know what technology we built it with?"
"No."
------
epicide
> If there is no chance of igniting a community, there is no reason to open
> source.
I see most of this article as a dangerous way of thinking, but especially the
above.
The mentality I get from this quote (especially combined with its context) is
basically: I should only open source something I'm working on if I can build a
community around it (that I control/influence/benefit from).
Open sourcing your software should be the default. If I make a tool or small
library/function, I would more look for a reason NOT to open source it. When I
can't think of one, I will open it up, regardless of whether or not there is a
"chance of igniting a community".
------
BukhariH
Can someone please share what patents cover react?
Because if they're revoking patents that don't cover react then there should
be no problem to continue using react right?
~~~
binaryapparatus
If I understand that license correctly, it is not 'patents that cover react',
it is 'any facebook patent, present or future'. Also as explained in the
article, it is also about my patents if I have any, in case facebook tries
violating them. Far wider than 'react patents'.
~~~
BukhariH
I understand that but here's the scenario I'm talking about:
\- I use React for my startup's dashboard
\- I sue facebook for violating my startup's patent without removing my react
dashboard first
Now, what patents can facebook use to counter sue me that they couldn't sue me
with anyway had I not used react?
~~~
yozel
Facebook won't counter sue you. They don't have to. You just lose your right
to use React, due to its license.
~~~
ec109685
That's not true:
[https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556](https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556)
Facebook can't take away your rights to use React under the BSD license, no
matter what you do.
------
skrebbel
This is a badly written article full of FUD. It's written by an angry backend
engineer, not a lawyer, and it shows.
He goes from this:
> _The instant you sue Facebook, your patent rights for React — and any other
> Facebook ‘open source’ technology you happen to use) — are automatically
> revoked._
To this:
> _If you use React, you cannot go against Facebook for any patent they hold.
> Full period._
"Full period", really? Because the first does not imply the second. This is
now how patent law works.
Now, I'm not a lawyer either, but broad assertions like these should tell you
that there's emotion at work here, not reason. In his fourth update, he made a
list of companies that add something about patents to their open source
licenses, implying that somehow that that proves something.
So the thing that people confuse here is patents and copyrights. The BSD
license grants you the right to use works copyrighted by Facebook people and
contributors. The patents clause, further, promises that should Facebook hold
any patents that cover the OSS, they won't use them against you, unless you
sue them first.
There is the whole idea floating around the internet that a BSD license
somehow ensures that nobody will sue you for patent infringement. I really
don't understand where this comes from. Hell, Android is Apache Licensed
(which includes a patent grant) and still anyone who makes an Android phone
has to pay license fees to all kinds of patent trolls (Microsoft most
notably). These things are totally separate.
So first, if you sue Facebook for patents, you lose their patent grant (so
they can sue you back, which everybody always does anyway - it's the only
defense companies have in patent wars). But you don't lose the BSD license or
anything. That's not how it works. All you lose is Facebook's promise not to
sue you because you use React.
Secondly, and this is the core point, patents don't cover code, they cover
ideas. Any patents that Facebook might have that, right or wrong, cover React,
will surely be written broad enough that they also cover Preact, Inferno,
Vue.js probably, and I bet also Angular. Not using React but one of these
other libraries therefore makes no difference - in both cases, Facebook can
use their React-ish patents to sue you.
To my understanding, patent lawsuits rarely get to the nitty gritty details of
actual patents in reality. It does not matter whether a Facebook patent
written broadly actually covers Vue.js or not - in practice, more often than
not, companies will compare the height of the patent stacks they have, and
agree on a settlement based on that.
All this patent grant says is that Facebook gets to use their patents that
cover OSS to make their stack of paper a bit higher. Like they would if they
hadn't made a patent grant at all.
So, repeat after me: using open source does not shield you from patent
infringment lawsuits.
------
CityWanderer
What makes the PATENTS file legally binding? If I install React via NPM/Yarn,
or even as a dependency of another project, I will not see this file.
LICENSE is a pretty common convention and you could argue I should seek out
this file in every one of my dependencies' dependencies - but how would I know
to look for PATENTS?
Are all statements in the code base legally binding? Could they be hidden in a
source file somewhere?
~~~
Vinnl
Not a lawyer, but I can imagine it can be expected that you do some due
diligence before installing it through npm - like checking the website whether
their license allows you to use it, and on what terms.
~~~
CityWanderer
If what you say is true then I think our tool chains are failing us.
My React project has 1,015 dependencies (directories in node_modules). If I
didn't have locked versions then every minor automatic update could bring in
more dependencies without me knowing.
Can anyone honestly say they've done such due diligence?
~~~
Silhouette
_Can anyone honestly say they 've done such due diligence?_
That seems doubtful.
And that's a real and potentially serious problem, because IP laws typically
don't contain any exemptions for code you're using that infringes someone's IP
rights just because it was contributed by a third party.
------
vladimir-y
Can the title be generalized? Like don't use anything from FB?
~~~
CityWanderer
This is true, all of Facebook's projects have the same PATENTS file. The title
is the most clickbaity though, which is the intention of the piece.
~~~
u320
Yarn, RocksDB and ZStandard does not.
------
codingdave
Even if everything in this article were 100% correct, which is clearly
arguable, think about how this would truly play out. Company X would sue
Facebook. Facebook would sue them back for using React... and then... lawsuits
would ensue. Attorneys would do their things. Cases would be argued out of
court. Lots of legal stuff would be going on, and plenty of time would be had
for the engineers to select and move to a new framework.
Yes, I think there are problems with the license, and I'm not using React. But
do I really think those problems will result in some scenario where you have
an overnight show-stopper of your business because of it? Extremely unlikely.
Startups need to stop fearing the law and start understanding it.
------
k__
What is the safe alternative here?
I mean probably FB got patents.
and
Probably they have at least one that covers things React can do.
Almost every framework moved to components and virtual DOM.
So there is a big chance that any framework out there could infringe some of
these React patents.
So their either can
revoke your React license when you sue them
or
Sue you over patent infringement if you don't use React
~~~
Lazare
You're mostly right, except:
> revoke your React license when you sue them
Incorrect; all they can do is revoke your _patent_ grant and then sue you for
patent infringement. They can't "revoke your React license".
So the difference is, if you use React they can only sue you for patent
infringement if you sue them first; if you use something else they can sue you
no matter what...
...if they have a patent on React. Despite your breezy assertion, patents are
public, people have looked, and none have been found.
~~~
k__
So other libraries can't be sued because there are no patents to be infringed?
And it doesn't matter that FB terminates the patent grant if you sue them,
because there were no patents to start with?
------
afro88
There were a lot of people in the older thread about the patents stuff saying
things like "well, are you ever going to sue Facebook?? You don't need to
worry about the patents stuff".
But consider this: Facebook do something disastrous, like leak a bunch of
private or financial data and it affects you really badly. There's a class
action against Facebook. Now you can't join it, because you don't wanna
rewrite your app without React to ensure Facebook can't counter sue over a
patent that may or may not exist on React.
~~~
rnijveld
Except that the patent grant states that the grant only voids if you sue (or
are contributing money to such a cause) because of patents. The grant is still
valid if you sue Facebook for non-patent related issues.
------
guelo
This doesn't convince me. As a consumer patents and patent lawsuits are almost
always bad. Patents reduce options in the market, lawsuits between companies
waste resources, startups being acquired reduce market options. The only real
argument is that it will prevent communities from forming. But I don't buy it.
Open source needs competition too, monolythic ecosystems are bad. As an
example, Apple didn't want to contribute to gcc so they created LLVM which is
a boon to everybody.
~~~
h8liu
apple did not create llvm. llvm started as an academic project, and apple took
advantage from its ecosystem -- same as many other companies did.
------
tchaffee
I wonder if Facebook's claims that they are doing this in order to make
patents useless would have legal standing. In other words, if they become
"evil" about this patent clause at some point in the future and try to enforce
this in the bad ways that people are imagining _might_ happen, then doesn't
Facebook's clearly and publicly stated intentions hurt any claim they would
make which goes against those intentions?
------
williamle8300
Facebook is like the Disney in the tech world. They want to be that trove of
intellectual property.
They take free-to-use stuff (Disney is cheap ripoff of Hans Christian
Anderson's fables), and create "magical" stuff that they protect with their
arsenal of lawyers.
If Facebook is able to pull the wool over our eyes this time... OSS is gonna
be in a bad place in the next century just like how Disney single-handedly
lobbied to change public domain laws in America.
------
blackoil
Someone with knowledge should bring clarity to all this noise!
My understanding is, if I sue FB for some patents, they can sue me back with
any patents they may hold on React. We do not know of any such patents they
own. So practically I am no safer if I use preact/vue or even Angular, since
they may own some patents that cover those tech.
tldr; Do not sue FB unless you have muscles.
------
bitL
It truly seems non-mature businesses should stop relying on open-source with
"baggage" and utilize only free software (AGPL3+) that has dual-licensing for
commercial use with support as e.g. in Qt, unless you are 100% sure for your
product lifecycle you won't get into direct business collision with the
"baggage" author.
~~~
DonbunEf7
AGPL is too toxic to use. Fortunately, there's not much compelling software
using it, so it's easy to avoid.
Businesses should shun AGPL, period.
~~~
bitL
Why is AGPL toxic? I'd advise all developers to do dual AGPL/commercial
license for all their open source projects. AGPL would guarantee that their
work is not used by others without giving back anything; commercial one to
keep them afloat and allow proper business.
------
hoodoof
"Look, we were going to buy you for $500million but our thorough due diligence
has turned over a rather nasty stone that you probably wished we didn't look
under. You know what I mean don't you? YES - we found out your dirty little
secret that you're using ReactJS. Due to this, we have decided to pull the
deal in favor of your competitor who uses AngularJS. What you need to
understand is that although you've cornered the market with your superb
software and business model, we are dead serious about never buying companies
that have built on ReactJS. We have a deep, and we think entirely valid,
concern that Facebook will, at a point in time, suddenly pull the carpet from
under you and Mark Zuckerberg will be laughing at us saying 'suckers... we
sure got you with the whole ReactJS ruse didn't we!'"
"We're also not very enthused about you building on Amazon - surprised you'd
take a risk like that, it doesn't indicate much business sense."
"Sorry to say, but your business, due to the ReactJS decision, is worth $0."
~~~
kybernetikos
If you're using angular, you're almost certainly using Typescript which
contains this less extreme version of the same sort of patent clause:
3\. Grant of Patent License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this
License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-
exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this
section) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import,
and otherwise transfer the Work, where such license applies only to those
patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by
their Contribution(s) alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with
the Work to which such Contribution(s) was submitted. If You institute patent
litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a
lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work
constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent
licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of
the date such litigation is filed.
As I understand it, Angular in general doesn't contain a patent grant at all.
Believing that that is superior to a grant that is removed in certain
circumstances requires some contentious legal argument that as far as I know
has not been demonstrated to stand up in court.
~~~
zilian
But TypeScript compiles to JS right ? How can one prove it's "used" in
production ?
------
jlebrech
my reason is that your app doesn't need the whiz bang reactiveness of react of
any other frontend framework just yet. it's just extra overhead.
------
halfnibble
I've been saying this for months. Don't use React!
------
notaboutdave
Easy workaround: Install Preact. No code changes required, at least not for me
last year.
~~~
k__
even the creator of preact said he doesn't know if he infringed FB patents
with the creation of preact, because nobody knows what React covering patents
FB holds.
~~~
kybernetikos
And in this, the situation is exactly the same as with any front end library,
or even not using one at all. It's almost impossible to know if you're
infringing any patents.
------
dimillian
Yeah because small startups will totally go after Facebook. Make sense. Wow.
~~~
askmike
Google looking to acquire small startup X? Not anymore because they use React.
Wow.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Eating Jell-O with Chopsticks - oftenwrong
https://granolashotgun.com/2019/05/27/eating-jell-o-with-chopsticks/
======
oftenwrong
I see this as hacking the overbearing regulation of the built environment.
More about the "stealth triplex": [https://granolashotgun.com/2017/07/17/the-
stealth-triplex/](https://granolashotgun.com/2017/07/17/the-stealth-triplex/)
Building an outdoor kitchen setup: [https://granolashotgun.com/2018/05/08/the-
mangiapocalypse/](https://granolashotgun.com/2018/05/08/the-mangiapocalypse/)
>A garden hose attached to a spigot and a galvanized bucket work wonders as an
outdoor sink. Camp soap made for outdoor use is garden friendly and nontoxic
so waste water can be used to irrigate fruit trees. I hasten to mention that
an outdoor sink plumbed with a pipe would have set off a cascade of government
regulations and prohibitions. But a garden hose and a bucket? No problem. Why
ask for trouble with the authorities?
Building a backyard cottage: [https://granolashotgun.com/2017/06/14/the-
bitter-suite/](https://granolashotgun.com/2017/06/14/the-bitter-suite/)
>I attempted to build a granny cottage in the back half acre behind the main
house. I hired a local architect who walked me through the legal parameters.
Then I decided to do the rational thing instead. Nothing. The numbers didn’t
add up. It wasn’t even close. So I reverse engineered what was legal as-of-
right without permits, fees, or inspections. 120 square feet, no more than 12
feet tall, no electricity or plumbing. Full stop.
~~~
AWildC182
I know a guy who worked a purchasing project for garden hoses. They're made
out of so much low grade regrind I would never use them for
drinking/cooking...
Also, they breed bacteria like crazy when left in the sun.
~~~
chrisdhal
As a kid growing up in the 1970s drinking out of the garden hose was
considered normal. We survived.
~~~
tntn
Ditto, but late 1990s instead of 1970s. I survived (so far) as well :)
~~~
yellowapple
Same here, early 90's. I actually liked the taste of the hose water from my
childhood home more than any other water I've ever drank.
------
frenchie4111
This is an interesting post. I don't think the title does it justice, I
wouldn't have opened it if I wasn't sitting on the toilet and the all the
other links were purple at the time.
~~~
dang
You're right about the title, but when a substantive post like this one has a
whimsical title, we prefer to leave it intact. By whimsical I mean indirect
and playful and not using any obvious internet tricks. Leaving it is
respectful to the author, and I think it's good for the HN front page not to
reveal itself completely without a bit of effort.
------
sxates
I'm currently in construction on the lower level of my house in Oakland, which
will be split in half and include an ADU (accessory dwelling unit) that we'll
be able to rent out.
There are two ways of doing this in Oakland, and presumably most places - the
Legal proper way, and the not-legal way. Most seem to be the latter.
But we wanted to do things right. Oakland has a housing shortage and we have
more square feet than we need, and we were renovating the house anyway. And
according to the city, they're trying to encourage ADU's to help with that
housing shortage, so we went that way.
But that means we're subject to a whole new set of zoning and construction
regulations. Originally I wanted to keep a (locking) interior door between the
main house and the ADU so we had the flexibility of having it as a guest room
or literal mother-in-law suite if we weren't renting it. Zoning shot that down
- ADU is required to be completely separate space.
Oh and that 'separate space' is quite literal. Separate HVAC, separate
electrical, separate sewer plumbing to the lateral with separate cleanout, and
1-hour fire rated separation on shared walls and ceilings.
Some of that makes sense and I'd want to do anyway, but it means a simple
400sq. ft. 1 bedroom ADU in an existing building is about a $100k buildout.
The previous owner rented the downstairs space as it was - not legal, no real
separation from the main house, shared everything. That was pretty much free
for her.
I wonder if there's a middle ground somewhere. A 'legal' way to dense up our
housing but without the great expense of rebuilding it from the inside out
first. This seems like something that we'll be seeing a lot more of in the
future, but I can't imagine most people will want to spend what I'm spending
to do it 'legally'.
~~~
rayiner
I don’t understand how you Californians put up with so much government. It’s
not even good government. It’s not like you can point to great public services
and whatnot to make up for it.
~~~
HarryHirsch
If you are renting to a roommate and the guy knocks over a candle or falls
asleep smoking in his bedroom you notice straightaway and can escape or try
and put out the fire. But if you live next to a studio apartment and the
fellow sets his kitchen on fire you may not notice until it's too late for
you. Proper fireproofing is absolutely essential in multitenant units. There
is nothing wrong with Oakland insisting on proper code, especially after that
warehouse fire a few years back.
NYC seems a bit more permissive towards not-so-legal landlords, and every few
months the NY Post reports a building fire with really avoidable casualties.
From circumstances you suspect out-of-code rentals.
------
ww520
For my old house, the previous owner had built out the basement unit
beautifully, with a full bath, large full bedroom, and large living room, and
9' feet ceiling that made it look like a normal living space. When I bought
the place, I was thrived. It's like a separate unit. But I checked the city's
plan, the build-out was not in the plan, so it was built illegally.
Years later when I sold it, I decided to go through the process to bring it up
to code. It was a painful and onerous process. Dealing with the city planning
department and to be compliant with the regular building code plus the city's
own petty codes made me wish I didn't start the process. At various stages of
the process, I was at the point of fuck-it and just gave up. Finally got it
done after 9 months and extra money. I can certainly understand why people
just do it without following the regulation.
------
euske
I'm not quite following the article. Why can't people build a duplex like that
today? Which part of it is illegal? I think it has something to do with a
zoning law, but I'm not very familiar with the concept. (I live in Tokyo.)
~~~
robertnealan
Zoning restrictions are far more restrictive in the United States than in a
city like Tokyo, where the government has largely only enacted laws preventing
specific cases that would be considered very harmful (opening a heavy
industrial businesses in a residential neighborhood for instance).
In most of the US most land in smaller cities are zoned for single family
housing only. This often means you can only build a house for one family (no
duplexes) with arbitrary restrictions on a variety of other things (minimum
lot sizes, maximum house sizes relative to lot size, required setbacks from
property lines to the house, etc).
In the event you are able to build a du/triplex it's rare you'd be able to
convert any part of it for business use unless the land was already zoned for
multi-use, where they allow mixing of residential and commercial uses.
------
0xffff2
I find the author's dismissiveness towards kitchen space interesting. Granted
I cook a lot, but are there really so many people that cook so little that
they would have no problem not having a stove at all?
~~~
padobson
With the pervasiveness of Uber Eats, Door Dash, et al, I'm starting to think
there should be an AWS for food.
Imagine some sort of central, industrial-scale kitchen that makes dirt-cheap
prepared meals and uses the aforementioned services delivers them to your
house, hot, at meal time.
Could economies of scale drive the cost below $5/meal? $2?
If we can obviate server rooms in office buildings around the world, what
would it do to make the kitchen an extravagance rather than a necessity?
Or maybe the laundry room is the right target for obsolescence. Most cities
already have industrial scale laundries for hotels. Could Uber and Lyft
partner with them to eliminate those two giant appliances in our homes, and
let us have the space back for our ham radios and stamp collections?
~~~
0xffff2
There are already a handful of laundry services operating in the bay area.
They're all roughly an order of magnitude more expensive than doing it myself
even as a renter.
Likewise, the overwhelming cost of food delivery services is in the "service"
part. Even if you could make the meal for $2, I would still end up paying $10
for a $2 meal, and while it definitely possible to make a nutritious and
reasonably palatable meal for $2, it's never going to compare to the $10 meal
I can get just by walking down the block to my local taqueria, much less what
I can make myself.
~~~
thrower123
When I was living alone as a bachelor, I crunched the numbers and decided it
was kind of stupid to do my own laundry rather than drop it off at the
laundromat for their wash-and-fold service.
Doing a load of laundry coin-op would cost me about $2/$3 a load. Plus the
cost of detergent, fabric softener, and dryer sheets. And the aggravation of
going to a grungy, depressing laundromat, waiting around for the washer to
run, running the dryer several times because things wouldn't get dry, and then
folding it all and lugging my baskets home.
When I was in an apartment that did have hookups, but no laundry machines,
buying a basic washer and dryer ran about $1000, unless I found some ticking
time bomb of a used set on Craigslist. And then there is the water and
electricity costs. Not to mention the hassle of either abandoning them or
having to drag them off somewhere else when I moved.
In contrast, I could drop off a huge barracks bag full of laundry at the
laundromat once every two weeks, and they would weigh it up, charge me a
dollar a pound, then I'd go off to work and pick it up at the end of the day,
perfectly washed and expertly folded. Just in the amount of time saved at
drudgery, it was worth it, besides the fact that they did a far, far better
job than I would do myself.
~~~
kelnos
The difference between you (and me) and an unfortunately large number of
people is that they don't have the luxury to trade money for time, even for
seemingly trivial things. Spending $3 and two hours at a laundromat might be
the only option, as $5-$10 for a service can often be out of reach.
~~~
zrobotics
That's $3/load+drying. When I worked as a mechanic that is what it cost me to
wash work clothes (didn't want them in my washing machine). I did the same
thing--it would cost me ~$20 and 2 hours sitting at the laundromat, wash and
fold service was 28. Even for someone making minimum wage, $4/hour is pretty
poor value for time.
------
peterwwillis
The zoning laws are just ridiculous. It shouldn't be illegal to live in a tiny
house, or to have mixed-use dwellings, or build more dense, efficient spaces
that cost less. There's a good reason why these laws came into practice, but
there's also good reason to make exceptions. But it's also impossible to
change them without a couple million dollars and an army of lawyers.
------
deckar01
This kind of zoning is pretty much unenforceable. There is no good way to tell
the difference between guests and customers. Some people have noisy guests
that bother their neighbors. Some people make loud noises cutting wood and
doing personal projects with heavy machinery in their garage. Money exchanging
hands is not the problem.
~~~
dsfyu404ed
>Some people make loud noises cutting wood and doing personal projects with
heavy machinery in their garage. Money exchanging hands is not the problem.
I assure you there are plenty of people who think that loud noises, odors and
"unsightly projects" are an issue even if no money changes hands. These people
have far less leverage over tenants than they do over property owners so they
seek to ban tenants
The zoning you speak of is enforceable enough. It doesn't need to be
enforceable 100%, just enough to make the risk/reward not worth it. Remember,
a large part of the busybodies motivation is "neighborhood character" (or some
other shit like that). They don't care if you break the rules so long as you
do so in a way they find agreeable. They want the power of arbitrary
enforcement so they can screw you if you have tenants that throw loud parties
(or whatever). It just so happens that it's easier to get draconian
punishments attached to the zoning code than it is to get them attached to the
petty crap the busybodies care about so they get rough proxies for the stuff
they care about prohibited via the zoning code.
~~~
orclev
I'm pretty sure that was the point he was trying to make. The excuse often
made for why rental properties aren't allowed is that tenants are often noisy
or cause other problems. He was just pointing out that that can be a problem
for owners as well, so whether it's a tenant or a owner that's being noisy is
immaterial.
------
strommen
Abolish single family zoning.
It's terrible for the planet, terrible for economic and racial equity, and
terrible for our mental health.
~~~
ars
> and terrible for our mental health.
If I had to live in a multi family home I would completely go insane. I don't
know about you, but I need space in order to function.
People are not livestock, to be packed in as tightly as possible.
That said, the types of multi family houses in this article are fine by me -
they have lots of space around them.
~~~
alistairSH
Generally, the change would allow single-family homes. But it would not
REQUIRE single-family homes.
A typical development pattern might be something like... \- all single family
homes to start \- area gets popular (property value goes up), a few SFH are
replaced with duplex or small apartments \- area gets more popular, more SFH
removed, mid-rise apartments begin to appear, small-scale retail appears
Etc.
Of course, this requires that NIBMYs aren't allowed to control other people's
property. And the zoning and codes that do exist are enforced so you don't end
up with a SFH next to a gas station.
------
closetohome
This must be really specific to NH, because I don't find any of the laws or
problems he talks about familiar.
~~~
SECProto
I have experience with half a dozen cities around Canada, and they all have
similar zoning issues to those described.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
RIBs: Uber's cross-platform mobile architecture - stablemap
https://github.com/uber/RIBs
======
cocktailpeanuts
This looks cool, but "Cross-platform" is a misleading adjective to use here.
By that standard, you can put "cross-platform" on anything. Like MVC is a
"cross platform" architecture. And so is CRUD.
~~~
stablemap
I try to avoid editing titles, but I agree that "pattern" would be a better
word here.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What does Climate Model output look like? - iamelgringo
http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2009/07/what_does_climate_model_output.php
======
blhack
A good friend of mine is working on his masters in GIS right now.
I was talking to him about climate models the other day (he works with
climatologists) and he said something along the lines of "fucking
climatologists, dude. Tell me what the temperature is going to be tomorrow, or
in a week, THEN we'll work on what it is going to be is 40 years".
I'm not saying that he is right or wrong, but I do really feel (feelings !=
science, I know) that if they (the climatologists) could give us some more
accurate predictions of what they weather is going to be next month, I would
have less trouble listening to them when they try to tell me what it is going
to be in 30 years.
~~~
joseakle
Some things are easier to predict on the long term, others on the short term.
Some on the local level, others on the global level.
------
jerf
Did I just get told to _look at the pretty pictures_? And then boggle at the
idea that they might be meaningless?
This site calls itself "scienceblogs.com"?
I'll admit to generally being a skeptic on the topic of global warming... but
there are _far_ better arguments for the standard model than "look at the
pretty pictures"! I'll do the advocates of the standard model of warming the
favor of pretending this was never posted.
------
martythemaniak
The lack of evidence supporting Global Climate Conspiracy merely confirms the
vast extent and incredible sophistication of the conspiracy.
------
quoderat
You'll never convince anyone that catastrophic climate change is likely, as
too many people have their self-image and their perceived financial stability
tied up in believing that it will not occur.
------
kingkongrevenge
What does Climate Model output look like? It looks like the same stuff that
phd assembled equity market models spit out. A bunch of fancy math with no
useful track record of success. When are these people going to have their LTCM
public depantsing moment?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Universe Is Programmable. We Need an API for Everything - hbe_
http://www.wired.com/2014/04/the-universe-is-programmable/
======
sprobertson
Even though I already agree with the premise, this article seems to go on for
a long time without convincing anyone of anything. Needs some examples or
something.
And what we really need is a universal API consumer for when every
municipality and your toaster has an API in different format.
~~~
manoq
Hey there, this is the author. I agree it's kind of a slog. It was tough to
balance bringing in non-programmers to the arguement and getting into the
weeds of what I'm talking about. You should see the scraps that didn't make it
in. I wrote some pseudo-code for my personal API, including how beers affect
the loudness of my voice.
Actually no, no one should ever see that.
~~~
sprobertson
To be honest, a little example like that might be perfect. Maybe I'm not the
right target audience but I was hoping for that sort of exploration of how
disparate information sources could be made to work together.
------
alariccole
And on the seventh day, God RESTed.
------
teddyh
It seems that the current attempt to do anything like this is SNMP with its
wealth of standardized MIBs.
Of course, we could ignore all that because it’s not new and cool, and instead
fight over what’s new enough to be considered. (SOAP! No, REST! Etc.)
Or, alternately, is this not what the _Internet_ is? I.e. a standardized way
for things to access other things, the exact protocols to vary depending on
the things in question?
------
alariccole
Whoever decides to write this API, please don't do it in SOAP.
Seriously, though, that would be the issue with anything that tries to
standardize something so broad--eventually, factions would form and it would
self destruct.
It would be fun in the mean time, though.
------
mikesname
Someone needs to tell this guy about the semantic web, though perhaps this is
another indication that it's never going to catch on.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
China Blocks Foursquare; Too Many People Checking Into Tian’anmen - derekc
http://www.techblog86.com/2010/06/china-blocks-foursquare-too-many-people-checking-into-tiananmen/
======
cgranade
It seems like the eventual trajectory of such censorship is the creation of a
completely separate Internet that is China-only. With more and more sites from
around the world being blocked, the demands aren't going away, and so parallel
censorship-friendly sites go up inside The Great Firewall. I wonder if one
day, China will get sick of maintaining the Firewall and just turn off
connections to the rest of the world.
------
costan
Censorship is horrible. But if you think it's restricted to China... think
about what would happen if 10,000 people would tweet something sensitive on
9/11. My guess is something along the lines of
[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/paul-chambers-
convi...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/paul-chambers-convicted-
f_n_570073.html)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Concepts Behind Association Rule Mining - Nisha10
http://www.techleer.com/articles/238-concepts-behind-association-rule-mining/
======
kwillets
>To achieve more efficient results we need to reduce the itemset and for this
we apply Apriori algorithm whose principle states that if an itemset is
infrequent, then all its subsets must also be infrequent.
Sorry, no.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Dropbox Apps can be cool - BoxySign.com - scottmotte
http://boxysign.com
======
jerrya
Wait what?
You tell me of this service. You promote it here.
You tell me of its features.
You encourage me to "connect" it to my Dropbox account and thus authorize your
app to my dropbox account.
ONLY AFTER I CONNECT YOUR APP TO MY DROPBOX ACCOUNT DO YOU REVEAL A SIGN UP
FEE.
I think your methods are misleading and frustrating at best. And moving on to
unethical and possibly more.
You should explain the fee prior to "connecting" to anyone's dropbox account.
Is there any reason I shouldn't complain about your practices to dropbox?
~~~
scottmotte
I apologize for it being misleading and frustrating. Thank you for your
comments.
I'm updating the home page to more clearly reflect the pricing now.
I'll welcome any other thoughts you have to make it clearer as well. I'm
considering plans to have the payment form and Connect to Dropbox button as
one sign up form.
(I should not that connecting via Dropbox is NOT giving me access to your
entire Dropbox. It only grants me access to your Apps/Boxysign folder - which
you can simply delete from your machine to disconnect from my app. A lot like
Twitter and Facebook Connect.)
~~~
scottmotte
Ok, I have this as a start ready to go - <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/190299/new-
home-page.png>
I'm just waiting for <https://registry.npmjs.org/> to come back online so I
can push to heroku.
------
scottmotte
I like the idea of Dropbox Apps. A user can consume your web service without
even leaving Dropbox (almost). To demonstrate the concept I built
<http://BoxySign.com>.
\- Drop an unsigned document in your Dropbox BoxySign folder, and you receive
a link.
\- Share that link to receive a signature.
\- The signed copy is then delivered directly to your Dropbox BoxySign folder
on your computer.
You can do all this directly from your Dropbox folder, but there is also a web
interface which the video demonstrates - <http://boxysign.com/video>
Additionally (depending on how you architect it), it saves big on storage
costs. You can store pieces of data in hidden files on the user's Dropbox.
I think this has neat potential for many types of little Dropbox Apps.
Thoughts?
------
alexchamberlain
Certainly a cool app. It's a bit worrying you can store hidden files in
someone's Dropbox folder though.
~~~
scottmotte
Yes a bit. It's isolated to your app folder though. Additionally, Dropbox
reviews your app and approves it or not.
------
brianbreslin
You should show the video more prominently. cool idea.
~~~
scottmotte
Thanks. I think you're right.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
You Don’t Need a DevOps Team - babich
https://medium.com/@101/you-don-t-need-a-devops-team-78a89165fc5b#.b7yeg2i4l
======
chucky_z
Isn't the whole point of a devops individual/team to reduce friction to "...
break down barriers, increase automation, bring collaboration and iterate."?
I understand that there should be company buy-in and individuals could handle
this themselves but if there's no clear start/end point there could (will) be
a huge waste of man hours and potentially $$.
So maybe a subtitle for this article could be "But it may help."
~~~
babich
Thanks for your reply!
Yes, my point was about the goal. And it should be set properly (e.g. our goal
is our product and happy customers, not "Hey, now we have the best process as
other guys").
------
toomuchtodo
"You Don’t Need a DevOps Team. What you really need is a holistic approach to
software development. Yes. it’s not an easy route. It takes a long time for
teams to get good at these things and it will affect the way in which you
organize your company, not just your development or operations functions.
You’ll be surprised at the end — your organisation’ll get to the high ground
of effective process. The one that best fits your needs. So break down
barriers, increase automation, bring collaboration and iterate."
So all of your developers are going to have operational experience? And be on
call 24/7?
~~~
babich
Nope, you should have a good Operation (!) engineer, not DevOps.
~~~
toomuchtodo
The startup I'm at rolls the two roles together. I do operations, as well as
"devops" tasks (everything between the repo and the deploy).
I'd love feedback on how other teams or orgs are handling this.
~~~
babich
Well, you have a pretty challenging job, but also an opportunity to improve
the situation. Startups are very interesting place because both business and
culture is still growing.
One good (but general) advice - think how to make a process efficient (e.g.
more automation for tasks and less complexity in a state of integration and
problem solving).
------
xyzzy4
You also don't need more than one employee. But the marginal value of hiring
more employees (including DevOps) might be good enough to justify it.
~~~
babich
Well, it depends on a company size. But when you have a growing business,
usually it's better to hire a good developer or a good operation engineer and
focus on communications.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: I want to start my own web development agency - lewisflude
By my early teens I'd scored my first client, made my first website outside of personal projects and filed my first invoice. I've been involved with several startups over the years and wanted to use my entrepreneurial experience to create my own agency.<p>I wanted to post here to see if anyone has done this before or has any advice that they think I'd find useful. I want to develop a USP and a memorable aesthetic. My first steps will be to find 2-3 likeminded individuals who have talents that compliment my own.<p>If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
======
dylanhassinger
service businesses cant scale, and require a lot of time. Client work is
great, but only has a way to pay the bills towards a scalable product. my 2
cents
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Alibaba partner announces 16 core RISC-V chip - rwmj
https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-07-25/alibaba-chip-subsidiary-launches-first-product-using-open-source-architecture-101443785.html
======
tgtweak
Article explaining the relevance of this news:
[https://technode.com/2019/07/24/chinas-chipmakers-risc-v-
san...](https://technode.com/2019/07/24/chinas-chipmakers-risc-v-sanctions/)
~~~
estomagordo
Link seems terribly dead =/
~~~
class4behavior
Just load it via an archive?
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190724090600/https://technode....](https://web.archive.org/web/20190724090600/https://technode.com/2019/07/24/chinas-
chipmakers-risc-v-sanctions/)
[https://archive.is/I5bgm](https://archive.is/I5bgm)
------
TallGuyShort
Reminds me of Adapteva's Parallela, which I bought and was really excited
about, but was obviously a commercial failure. I work on software that has an
above-average (but far less than HPC) need for concurrency, but even our most
demanding customers seem to be content with off-the-shelf Intel, either
because they don't need THAT many cores, or because they value the more
sophisticated instructions (like encryption acceleration, etc.) I'm curious to
know what kind of use cases y'all work on that might crave something like
this.
~~~
BubRoss
Modern x64 is very difficult to beat and takes a lot more than just raw core
count. The out of order execution, prefetching, multiple execution units,
SIMD, cache, cache synchronization etc. are all very strong. I think the space
where more weak cores can be utilized but not GPUs is pretty slim. Intel
themselves even had that briefly with their high core count out of order atom
core chips that didn't take off (or weren't given a chance).
I think software that can take advantage of more than a few cores without just
using brute force fork-join parallelism in some of the heavy loops is rare. I
don't think it has to be that way, but the problem comes down to software
architecture which isn't going to be solved by leaving each application
programmer to their own devices. It will take libraries that give them the
means to do it without having to reason about low level synchronization.
~~~
marktangotango
_Modern x64 is very difficult to beat and takes a lot more than just raw core
count._
Are there any alternatives on the horizon?
~~~
monocasa
AArch64, and RISC-V. POWER is a monoculture, and MIPS never really got out of
it's gate count niche.
~~~
farisjarrah
MIPS may enjoy a resurgence, it will be open sourced soon I have read.
~~~
monocasa
It wasn't really open sourced. It's open in the sense that if you pay a bunch
of money, and sign an NDA, you'll be given access to the source... which has
always been the case. Some sales bro bought MIPS and slapped an "open" label
on it. IMO, it's current steward has done more to kill it then ARM and RISC-V
ever could.
------
rwmj
There are several links available for this announcement, but none of them are
that great. Alternatives: [https://kr-asia.com/alibabas-pingtouge-launches-
own-processo...](https://kr-asia.com/alibabas-pingtouge-launches-own-
processor-aiming-to-be-a-chip-infrastructure-provider-for-ai-and-iot)
[https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-07-25/alibaba-chip-
subsidi...](https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-07-25/alibaba-chip-subsidiary-
launches-first-product-using-open-source-architecture-101443785.html)
~~~
yorwba
Alibaba doesn't seem to have any press releases written about this, not even
in Chinese. All reporting seems to be based on what CTO Zhang Jianfeng said at
the currently ongoing Alibaba Cloud Summit (
[https://summit.aliyun.com/](https://summit.aliyun.com/) ). Maybe they'll have
more information on the specifics once the summit is over.
------
londons_explore
How long before Android runs properly on RISC-V?
And will they be able to persuade app-makers to rebuild all apps for the
platform - x86 Android shows how hard that can be.
~~~
microcolonel
> _How long before Android runs properly on RISC-V?_
It's mostly up to OpenJDK and V8 porting. When it comes to porting V8, I've
found out the hard way that there's more to it than a generic understanding of
compilers. Somebody still has to step up to the plate for a real JVM.
> _And will they be able to persuade app-makers to rebuild all apps for the
> platform - x86 Android shows how hard that can be._
Real x86 Android devices had libhoudini (DBT), which was pretty decent. If
RISC-V starts with low-end devices, or with a high-visibility model that
developers are pretty sure will sell well, then the native compilation target
will become more popular over time.
If China's bizarre local app market is involved, chances are they'll start
supporting the target as soon as it's available.
~~~
defer
A small correction, Android does not use OpenJDK. It uses the ART runtime
([https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik](https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik))
which will definitly need porting.
Slightly longer answer is that _some parts_ of the OpenJDK are used. Namely,
LUNI (implementation of java.lang, java.util, java.net, java.io) run on the
device, but those are high-level enough that they will require either none or
minimal changes for risc-v.
Compiling applications also uses OpenJDK (or the Jack compiler in platform
builds) but that is an intermediate step on the host. The produced JVM
bytecode gets converted to Dex bytecode during the build process.
I think the effort for Android will be two-fold:
On the software side, Bionic (android's libc), Dalvik (runtime), LLVM,
external dependencies (i.e. boringssl, lib{vpx,hecv,mpeg4,etc},) definitely
need work.
On the hardware side it all lies on the practical availability of a SoC. While
I have no doubt we'll have something similar to android-x86 running on
discrete chips, commercial devices will need a more complete cpu+gpu+dsp+modem
package.
~~~
microcolonel
> _A small correction, Android does not use OpenJDK. It uses the ART runtime_
Oops! I got confused after there was uncertainty in 2015 because of the Oracle
lawsuits. I believe it was reported at that time that they would switch to
OpenJDK, or something similar enough was reported that that's what I
remembered.
> _On the software side, Bionic (android 's libc), Dalvik (runtime), LLVM,
> external dependencies (i.e. boringssl, lib{vpx,hecv,mpeg4,etc},) definitely
> need work._
Not all of those need to be in software, but yes, it all needs to come
together.
> _commercial devices will need a more complete cpu+gpu+dsp+modem package._
Totally, though the non-CPU bits have little to do with RISC-V either way, and
the drivers for them tend to be (relatively) portable C code, so that bodes
well.
------
baybal2
Being in Arm's position sucks now.
Would they not be so enthusiastic about sanctions, Chinese would've been way
more cautious jumping on RISC-V boat.
Now instead of having RISC-V as one off research projects, which would have
probably died off silently, now they are all treated as survival essential
projects.
~~~
mark_l_watson
I agree. I feel like we (USA) are forcing China on a path that will make them
more competitive long term.
~~~
sangnoir
The same thing happened when China wanted to join the ISS[1] - the US Congress
blocked this to avoid "tech transfer". Instead of being dejected and sad,
China kickstarted its space station program, and are now collaborating with
Europe.
1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_International_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_International_Space_Station#China)
------
bhouston
When will RISC-V move to multi-chip modules
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-
chip_module](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module)) as AMD has done
very successfully with Ryzen?
It allows for easy scaling of CPU designs as well as increasing yield by
making smaller components that have overall lower defect rates.
hat seems like the logical next move for most CPU chip vendors/designers
except for maybe ARM.
~~~
rwmj
"RISC-V" isn't an organization that can "move to multi-chip modules". RISC-V
is a foundation which essentially publishes a couple of PDF files (the user
spec and priv spec) and organizes a bunch of other stuff around reference
hardware designs, simulators and the software toolchain.
All of this is BSD licensed, so anyone can pick it up and manufacture chips
based on the specification or by modifying one of the reference designs. Note
that the largest part of designing and building a chip is not the choice of
ISA (that's probably well under 10% of it).
What you may want to know is whether any manufacturers are going to make
modular RISC-V chips. None of them to my knowledge. But most of them are
currently focusing on the ARM space (embedded, IoT, AI, etc.) including this
particular design.
~~~
digikata
The nice thing is that software and work on a RISC-V toolchain can now be much
more common for vendors that elect to use RISC-V, though it remains to be seen
how well the actual manufactured chip variation gets supported like
instruction set extensions, peripherals, and configurations for many cores.
ARM had some motivation to help ease the customization pain for tooling for
their IP licensees, so I'm curious if RISC-V support will be more like ARM or
more like early UNIX vendors.
------
1121redblackgo
The 'muddying the waters, what about the US' comments on these threads always
intrigue me.
------
bogwog
This is both awesome and terrifying. I'll never forget this
research([https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-
hi...](https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-
computer-chip/)) which showed how an attacker can insert a backdoor into a
chip during the manufacturing process in a way that is practically impossible
to catch. That makes me very concerned about using a chip completely
manufactured in China.
But at the same time, RISC-V needs to happen. It's a critical step to move
computing forward. It's just a damn shame that this is the way it's going to
happen. Hopefully this will push RISC-V manufacturing efforts in the US before
the market becomes flooded with cheap open source and most likely backdoored
chips manufactured in China.
~~~
strooper
Is there a way to know that the present chips are not backdoored? Or,
backdoored by US? Why should the world be concern about Chinese backdoors and
not US ones?
~~~
eloff
Let's not pretend the US and China are equally authoritarian please.
~~~
coldtea
Let's not pretend how they are governed internally is what concerns the rest
of the world.
The US has been in constant wars, invasions, meddling with foreign politics,
running protectorates, etc. for over a century, including having bases all
around the world. Far more countries have battle and regime change scars by
the US than by China. Including it being the only country that ever dropped
atomic bombs (and to civilians, none the less).
And it's not just the Orange Baboon in charge that's worrying (though of
course there's that too) -- the "Nobel Peace Price" winner Obama had a worse
track record.
(Of course for Americans anything that happened over 20 or 40 years ago is
ancient history and the world should have forgotten it and totally trust them
now -- still there were like 4 wars and one regime change they assisted in the
last 20 years, so there's that).
~~~
debaserab2
Yeah, and China does equally disgusting things _to its own citizens_.
Literally right now they are enacting cultural genocide on millions of their
own people (see: the uyghurs)
Do you really have faith that China is going to act any differently to
outsiders?
~~~
behringer
Americans imprison more people than China. Americans imprison and torture
children at the border.
~~~
fromthestart
>Americans imprison more people than China.
But we have due process and most of these offenses are due to the failed drug
war. Whether or not people should be locked up for drug offenses is one thing,
but the laws being broken are pretty clear and generally aren't being used as
punishment for expressing anti-government sentiment.
>Americans imprison and torture children at the border
This angle is pretty ridiculous. The border facilities are totally overwhelmed
by an influx of people who by law are not allowed entry to the U.S. The vast
majority are economic migrants, not assylum seekers. Moreover, they made the
choice to come here knowing full well the illegality of their actions, and
they are not being "imprisoned," they are being detained for a few weeks while
the overloaded system processes their claims. Calling it torture is an
exaggeration. Also the miserable conditions at the contentious facilities
recently in the news are not representative of ICE facilities in general.
~~~
coldtea
> _But we have due process_
Only when people are not just executed by cops because they dared look too
black or homeless or whatever (so many more cases of police killings that any
European country when adjusted for population that it's amazing).
And even then, the due process is full of batshit-crazy aspects, from
prosecutorial blackmail deals, to "three-strikes" BS.
And let's not even get into prison conditions, use of solitary confinement,
rape as "joke", private prisons and prison labor, and so on...
Or the fact that it's the only (or close) western country to still have the
death penalty...
And that's for official prisons. Now let's add the various "sites"...
~~~
fromthestart
>Only when people are not just executed by cops because they dared look too
black or homeless or whatever
These atrocities are an exceedingly tiny minority out of millions of yearly
police interactions.
>And even then, the due process is full of batshit-crazy aspects, from
prosecutorial blackmail deals, to "three-strikes" BS
The system is not perfect, but the point is that in contrast to authoritarian
China, it is generally not abused to suppress political dissent and U.S.
citizens have rights to due process and representation in the legal system
that do not exist in China.
------
zoobab
I mirrored the PR of RISC-V foundation here:
[http://www.zoobab.com/alibaba-unveils-most-powerful-risc-
v-p...](http://www.zoobab.com/alibaba-unveils-most-powerful-risc-v-processor-
to-date)
------
microcolonel
Too bad they only quoted the CoreMark, and only compared it to an in-order
processor.
I'd love to see a real benchmark, and a comparison to a processor in the same
ballpark in terms of power and area.
------
nickik
I would really liked to know what extentions they will support. Will the
support the Vector extention? How about some of the once that are not quite
finished yet, like Bit manipulations.
~~~
snvzz
>I would really liked to know what extentions they will support.
Me too.
>Will the support the Vector extention?
The vector (V) extension is not standarized yet. It'll likely take two years,
as per updates in recent conferences.
>How about some of the once that are not quite finished yet, like Bit
manipulations.
That one (X) isn't ready either, but more likely to be ready soon.
~~~
Symmetry
Just because standardization isn't finished doesn't mean they won't go ahead
an build the closest thing to the current consensus they can manage.
~~~
tpetry
Or build something they prefer. If someone is too slow in standardizing there
often many concurring „standards“ because people needed a solution.
------
chvid
How does this compare to the Intel X86 CPUs in terms of power consumption,
price and performance?
Is this CPU a viable alternative for server and desktop computing?
~~~
rwmj
This chip exists entirely as a file on a computer, and maybe a few FPGAs, so I
doubt even the company announcing this has very much idea. It seems as if
they're hoping to get SMIC to manufacture this, so it won't exactly be a
competitive node (although China is pouring vast amounts of resources into
making their semiconductor manufacturing competitive, so give it a few years).
~~~
chvid
So far is this thing actually from being produced? (In time and cost)
~~~
rwmj
Although it sounds radical (16 cores!) it's a rather low end chip. So months
to a year, and millions to low 10s of millions of dollars. However the Chinese
govt is massively investing in semiconductors at the moment so they will
regard that as valuable research and investment rather than a cost.
------
joelthelion
What's the significance of this announcement? What are the likely markets for
this chip?
~~~
IceWreck
For one, RISC-V is fully open hardware unlike x86, amd64, arm and other
architectures. More adoption is always a good thing.
~~~
majewsky
RISC-V is an open ISA, but a particular RISC-V chip is not necessarily open
hardware. In fact, most probably aren't.
~~~
tpetry
What i don‘t get is how optimizations should work for Risc-V. For e.g. intel
chips you can do optimizations for every generation because some things have
been optimized in the architecture so you can do different tricks. But with
risc-v only the instruction set is the same and every cpu could implement it
differently with different performance characteristics. How should someone
optimize for this?
~~~
floatboth
It's been already happening with ARM. Clang has tune flags for
cortex-$generation, thunderx, thunderx2 (vulcan), (not upstream yet) emag…
and regular distributions ship generic just like on amd64 :)
~~~
tpetry
Yeah because ARM sells the complete implementation for the ARM core. But with
Risc-V there may be hundreds of different implementations, you can‘t really
add optimizations for everyone.
~~~
floatboth
Not everyone buys the implementations, I specifically listed multiple non-
Cortex ones. Cavium/Marvell ThunderX, ThunderX2 (Broadcom Vulcan), Qualcomm
Centriq (press F for Falkor), Ampere eMAG (Skylark), all current Apple stuff,
are all very different custom implementations.
TX2 in particular has a fascinating history:
[https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/cavium/microarchitectures/vulca...](https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/cavium/microarchitectures/vulcan)
------
ev0lv
For all my .NET developers, if you want your .NET Core app to target RISC-V
ISA, you would need to use Mono AOT and to specify the LLVM target is RISC-V.
------
mbrumlow
Indeed. RISC architecture is gonna change everything.
~~~
nguoi
RISC architectures have existed for about 4 decades.
~~~
mbrumlow
It's a quote from hackers the movie from 1995.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Do you own 400 companies? So, you are not too busy - paulovsk
http://www.ajkesslerblog.com/you-are-not-too-busy/
======
sfall
and he doesn't worry about the day to day operations of any of those 400
businesses
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Light sentence for 200 seniors who cheated on finals - yangez
http://www.click2houston.com/news/Seniors-caught-cheating-on-final-exam/-/1735978/7646450/-/bjbhwwz/-/index.html
======
mcherm
I see two problems with this: (1) They are apparently not attempting to
discipline the students who cheated. (2) They are requiring those who did NOT
cheat to re-take the test.
And the biggest problem (but which PERHAPS they are planning to address) is
this: (3) If 1/3 of the student body cheated, then the school system itself
has a problem.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you handle small web/tech requests from friends? - dotBen
I'm sure most HN'ers are the resident geeks in their wider circle of friends and get a lot of requests like:<p>* Can you set up a WordPress blog for me?<p>* Can you migrate my website from sharedHostX to sharedHostY?<p>* Can you help me pick an e-commerce service to use to put my store online?<p>* Can you fix my slow/crashing computer?<p>I get a lot of these <i>(from Non-Tech friends)</i> and stacked up they take up a fair amount of my time. I've never accepted money for doing stuff like this, even when offered, but now wondering whether for anyone that isn't family or immediate friend whether I should.<p>I'm wondering how you guys handle these kinds of requests?<p>EDIT: On the point of learning to say "NO": I guess I've always seen doing requests like this as 'paying it forward' or participating in the gift economy.<p>But when it comes time for me to need help I'm more likely to Google something/work it out for myself then really ask for help.
======
kylelibra
Depends on the person. I always have to fight the urge to send them this link:
<http://lmgtfy.com/>
Often I try to find the easiest walkthrough online I can find and e-mail it to
them. I add in the messaged something along the lines of "here is a guide to
doing this yourself, I should have some free time in x weeks if you get
stuck." Usually this gets them to at least attempt to do it themselves and
most of the time they are fully capable.
~~~
dotBen
Hmmm... for me at least, quite often the requests are from people who are non-
technical and so don't have the ability to do it themselves.
------
mindcrime
By and large, I refuse such requests. Often I dodge it in a subtle (yet true)
way by pointing out that I run Linux on all of my own computers, have for
years, and therefore have lost touch with the state of Windows
admin/repair/etc. This suffices to keep my mom, sister, aunt, etc. from giving
me too much grief to help them.
Beyond that, my non-techie friends have basically been trained to not bother
asking me, as I pretty much always politely refuse, by pointing out how
slammed I am with my day-job and startup project. When you explain to people
that you routinely work 80+ hours a week (and it's true) they tend to be more
understanding.
That said, if it's a question I can answer without doing any significant
research, and if the person has shown some initiative in trying to deal with
the problem on their own, and if I actually have a spare moment, I'll
occasionally try to help somebody by email or whatever. One of my sister's
friends was taking an online class on Java programming, and I answered a few
Java questions for her, but I never spent more than 2-3 minutes on it.
------
tfitzgerald
What is your day job? If your day job involves any of those things just quote
them a comparable hourly rate and don't feel bad.
I usually let people know up front how much the service they are requesting is
going to cost. A lot of the time this scares them away.
You could always try to work out some sort of service exchange. Given the
people you are helping offer services that you'd want / need.
or you could learn to just say no.
~~~
dotBen
Good point. I'm a consultant/contractor by trade so I have a very clear
billable hourly rate...
But my billable rate for SF-based high quality developer network and API
ecosystem strategy + development is not good value for setting up WordPress.
In fact it's probably a degree of magnitude bigger if you compare it to
getting a student or off-shore person to do it.
~~~
nl
I've had a number of "please setup Wordpress" type requests. These days I just
point them at a hosting company with a One-Click-Installer (Dreamhost has
worked ok for me) and tell them to have a go.
If I don't think they are going to be capable of doing that, then I point them
at Wordpress.org
~~~
dotBen
Well I'm a shareholder in WPEngine.com (WP hosting platform!) so yes, I should
route all my WP requests I receive to them! :)
------
adrianscott
The Big N.O....
I do a limited amount for close family, and a very small number of non-profits
I help out.
For the rest and for complicated requests from the above folks, I refer them
to a computer shop or other person, or say I don't have a good recommendation
on where they could get help with that.
I just helped out one non-profit by pointing them to some existing web tech
they could use instead of writing software, and gave them a quick sample, and
offered to teach them or find a consultant to teach them how to do the full
version of what they wanted.
With another non-profit, I help them with the stuff that's fun for me, and
connect them with other people to do the other, more time-consuming stuff they
want to do.
------
maxbrown
Ah, the age old unpaid service request.
I find this very similar to the designer's issue of spec work in the design
community - <http://www.no-spec.com/faq/>
The best response I've heard to the spec work issue is making an analogy to
other service trades. E.g. if you wanted a bathroom in your house re-modeled,
would you pay the contractor only if you liked the job he did?
Maybe we could parallel that to this issue - "if my trade was carpentry
instead of computer ______, would you feel comfortable asking me to make you
wood furniture?"
------
austin_e
I actually made an online course with some of my basic "tech knowledge". Now
if a friend asks me, for example, about the process I went through to create a
Facebook application, I send them to my course. I obviously won't charge my
friends for the course.
I still get questions like this and have recently started to refer my friends
to Quora.
Ultimately, as you mentioned, the overall lesson is to learn how to say 'no'.
You can do this with respect and tact.
------
HackrNwsDesignr
I think web design is a really good trade to have and you should not stack up
a list like that. If you are on HN, I imagine you have grander ambitions of
doing your own things, so if I were you I'd learn to respectfully say no more
often. I learned this one the hard way, but once I started saying no, it was
no big deal, and I was helping others, but in reality these tasks take away
time from my own coding projects, and it's not worth the trade off.
~~~
HackrNwsDesignr
Find a different way to pay it forward with friends and family rather than
offering your professional technical skills (if it's becoming too time
consuming, maybe you'll have down time some times, and you'll know you can
pick it back up).
------
calebhicks
I'll say "yeah, I usually charge $X for that, when can you work on it with
me/when would you like that done?"
If they're willing to pay for it, it shows that it's actually a legitimate
help to them. If not, it saves my time.
------
kingofspain
For good friends I'll do it if I have the time (it's not like any have asked
me to build them a facebook yet). For family I'll usually always do it -
they've earned the favours many times over.
------
SHOwnsYou
For friends and family? I do any favor they ask for.
I am not so self-righteous that I refuse my friends/family favors.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GitLab Direction - jmilloy
https://about.gitlab.com/direction/
======
whitepoplar
GitLab is like the average kid in class that everybody makes fun of for
constantly asking questions, but the joke's on them because "a little bit of
slope makes up for a lot of y-intercept." While GitLab may have warts, I feel
that they're very earnestly working to make the product better, bit by bit,
day by day, and will one day surpass GitHub.
~~~
sytse
Thanks! Incremental progress in the form of iteration is one of our core
values
[https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#iteration](https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#iteration)
~~~
tempaccount777
I have some questions to ask of you.
1\. Why does gitlab have so many tiers? It would be better if you guys could
repackage the features into fewer categories.
2\. Why is the Gitlab UI so ugly? IMO, bitbucket and github are leaps and
bounds ahead of you guys when it comes to design.
3\. Can we get a dark mode for us night owls?
4\. Finally, the morality question, You guys proudly associate yourselves with
open-source and get help from loads of opensource devs, yet you greedily
restrict simple features like epics, burndown charts, roadmaps, configurable
issue boards etc. from the core/free categories. Looks like your key core goal
is to make money... how are you any different from microsoft or google?
~~~
brandonwamboldt
1\. They only have four tiers (four equivalent tiers for hosted and on-premise
technically). This is quite reasonable, as they need to provide flexibility
for their customers. They are quite clear about which tiers provide which
features.
2\. This is purely subjective. I quite like the design, both more than GitHub
and Bitbucket. They do have a UX team, and they conduct regular user tests.
They've also made a lot of improvements and continue to make improvements, but
design will always be subjective. You CANNOT please everyone
3\. I suggest putting a thumbs up for [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ce/issues/18596](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/18596), but
ultimately it does create additional work for the UX team so I don't know if
they'll end up doing it or not. You could try a user style, e.g.
[https://userstyles.org/styles/125366/gitlab-simple-
dark](https://userstyles.org/styles/125366/gitlab-simple-dark)
4\. GitLab is a company and needs to make money to continue employing
developers to continue developing their product. Open source devs volunteer
their time on GitLab CE, not any of the closed source features, and GitLab has
open sourced enterprise features in the past if the demand is high. Also,
there is nothing wrong with comparing them to Microsoft, as Microsoft has
thousands of open source projects and is quite the open source contributor.
I'd flip #4 on it's head. They aren't greedily restricting features, they are
generously open sourcing features and giving them away for free. As a
business, they have no obligation to do so.
~~~
tyldum
When my company subscribed there was only a community and enterprise tier. Now
this has become the starter edition and I feel we are losing a lot of value.
We are 200 employees, but only 10 developers using the advanced features. We
really want to make GitLab our hub (GitOps and all), however the the cost of
going beyond starter edition is mind blowing (x5). So if we are to embrace
GitLab further we must abandon the idea of letting the whole company use
GitLab freely and limit it to devs only.
Being small doesn't mean that we are not in need if advanced features, we just
have a smaller scale.
Also as our initial tier was the top tier, and now is the bottom one, I fear
GitLab will fence off future functionality with even more tiers at random.
Further, the tiers creates some artificial barriers where we several times
feel the some of the new features we receive are just barely functioning and
are just there to entice you to upgrade to the next tier.
We are all in all very happy with GitLab, however we are no longer pushing it
as a central hub for the company.
~~~
manigandham
You pay 200 employees but don't want to spend $19/user/month on software for a
company hub? That's not really a small company, and this seems like a
budgeting problem if money is that tight.
You can also try running multiple installations with a separate dev-only
instance with more features. Also have you tried contacting Gitlab to
negotiate? A few emails can go a long way.
~~~
bigtunacan
I would say 200 employees is fairly small company; and depending on the line
of business it is certainly small enough that profit margins and thus spending
may need to be closely watched.
If you consider that the OP has only 10 out of 200 users that need the
advanced features, but has to purchase the advanced features for all 200 users
for anyone to use those features that is $45,600 a year.
Now if it were possible for example to have a mixed licensing model; buy 10
Premium licenses for the users who need it and 190 Starter licenses for
everyone else then that is $11,400 a year. That is a difference of $34,200 a
year so it may be the difference between being able to hire another employee
or not.
~~~
manigandham
As stated, they can run separate instances, or spend 5 minutes contacting
GitLab to negotiate.
200 employees is not small, that is considered a medium sized business.
Millions of companies around the world never get past single-digits. With
payroll extending into 10s of millions, $35k sounds rather trivial if it
really is powering the company hub and the value that brings.
~~~
bigtunacan
"200 employees is not small, that is considered a medium sized business"
I'm just curious what your basis for that is? To go with some kind of
standardization on the term "small business" I would say the safest definition
(within the US) would be to follow the SBA guidelines that define a small
business. Depending on the industry a small business is defined by the SBA as
a maximum of anywhere from 100 to 1500 employees. So it is not cut and dry
that this is or is not a small business; industry and also potentially
revenues in millions of dollars would need to be known to determine absolutely
if it by definition a small business.
------
dstick
Thanks for sharing this! The transparancy of GitLab is amazing for people like
me who have no experience nor contacts in larger companies. The handbook is a
joy to read!
I discovered GitLab when researching CI/CD workflow and thanks to your tight
integrations had one setup within 24 hours.
Add to that the fact that 3 fellow Dutchies are the founders which inspired me
to apply our own Security startup to YC19 and all I can say is: keep it up!
You’re an inspiration :-)
The only bit of constructive criticism I have is that the Epic ‘feature’ being
locked behind the highest subscription is a bit weird. I’d love to be able to
create an epic for our first release version but can’t. If that feature could
drop a tier, that would be... epic ;-)
------
Spidler
What I'm missing is a different security model than the current `If an
endpoint can push to gitlab, it is trusted and can execute code server-side`.
There is no (current) way to enforce a 2fa step in order to push to a
repository, and while you can technically implement them, that doesn't mean
much, due to the nature of `git push`.
What I want is a 2fa-enabled review boundary between "commit" and "execute",
which currently isn't possible.
Protected branches can be unprotected without an auth step.
There's nothing on the server-side that signs `gitlab` generated merge-commits
in the commit graph, so no way to distinguish them from other merges.
There's no security boundary to change the deployment details, or to modify
the deployment pipeline to run from a different branch.
Basically, I'd want a way to ensure that there's an authenticated hand-off
between "commit" and "deploy" steps on the chain.
Also, it'd be nifty if one could get gitlab to maintain a version number,
increasing with every merge request merged, in order to get smooth tagged
builds when MR's are used.
~~~
jramsay
Hi Spidler, I'm a Product Manager at GitLab. Thanks for the feedback. Solid
security protecting deployment is very important.
In GitLab 10.7 we added branch unprotecting restrictions that can be managed
through the API to restrict who can modify protected branch rules
[https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/api/protected_branches.html#prote...](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/api/protected_branches.html#protect-
repository-branches), and we'll be adding a UI to manage this soon too. I
created [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ce/issues/49513](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/49513) to add
an auth step for changing protected branches as well.
I'm interested to know more about the version number improvement you suggest
too. There are a few similar proposals like automated tagging on merge
[https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ce/issues/22363](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/22363).
------
dom96
GitLab is a great service, not perfect but a good alternative to GitHub. I
actually use Gitter far more than GitLab these days, GitLab acquired them a
while back and I'm really disappointed to see it reduced to stagnation. The
product hasn't improved at all since the acquisition, you can argue that it's
"finished" and it is 90% there. There are rough edges that make it more
annoying to use than Telegram, Slack, etc. The primary one being how they
handle notifications on their Android app. It's annoying me every day that
this has been effectively broken for years now.
Maybe some of the GitLab guys that hang around here can answer my concerns.
Why are you guys neglecting Gitter?
~~~
MadLittleMods
Heya, I'm the current Gitter developer and was working on Gitter before the
acquisition.
After the acquisition, Gitter did stagnate with no movement as we settled into
our new GitLab roles and responsibilities but since May, we have been actively
shipping things again. Changelog: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/blob/develop/CHA...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/blob/develop/CHANGELOG.md). Catching up from the break in
development, a lot of work so far has been technical debt. We do have more
user-facing changes in mind like removing the disruptive large embeds
([https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/714#note_...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/714#note_88039992)), improving search
([https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/1925](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/1925)), and decoupling unreads from emails
([https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/1205](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/1205)).
One of the goals this quarter is to open source the Android/iOS apps,
[https://about.gitlab.com/okrs/2018-q3/](https://about.gitlab.com/okrs/2018-q3/)
but there isn't a plan to keep improving them with new features. We are
focusing on fixing the rough edges of the webapp and are happy to review your
Merge Requests for any project.
By Android notifications being broken, I assume you probably mean our double-
buzz avoidance, [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/1846](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues/1846), but please make sure your particular issue is
tracked, [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues?scope=all...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
org/gitter/webapp/issues?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=opened&label_name\[\]=android&label_name\[\]=notifications)
~~~
dom96
Hey, thanks for responding.
> By Android notifications being broken, I assume you probably mean our
> double-buzz avoidance, [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
> org/gitter/webapp/issues/1846](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
> org/gitter/webapp/issues/1846)
That does indeed look like the issue I am experiencing. We've got a setup
where our IRC channel is relayed to/from Gitter so I am usually on IRC instead
of Gitter web. But this means that I need to manually discard mentions on
Gitter web, otherwise I get a notification that is super long containing all
my mentions. This means I cannot easily see what was said to me at the time of
the notification.
------
nathan_f77
A few years ago I really wanted to join GitHub as a software engineer. I was
living in San Francisco and visited their office for some events, and I
thought it would be an awesome place to work. I tried reaching out to a few
people who worked there, but I could never get my foot in the door.
There were a lot of things I would have loved to build at GitHub, and they
were all the same things that GitLab is doing now. I felt that there was so
much potential to build things like CI, DevOps, and eventually a PaaS to
compete with Heroku. I really think they should have acquired something like
TravisCI or CircleCI and made that part of their platform, but it seems like
they haven't really done anything significant in the last 5 years.
I'm a very happy user of GitLab now, and the product is awesome. But I don't
think I would ever join the company. First of all, they don't pay competitive
salaries for remote workers (cost-of-living adjustments). I also don't think
they have a very good company culture, and to be honest, it still feels a bit
sketchy that they ripped off GitHub and undercut them on pricing. But I'm sure
I'll get over that eventually.
~~~
fqb
Could you elaborate about the salaries for remote workers? I'm a frontend
developer in southern Europe and I'd love to work for Gitlab because I love
the product.
~~~
nathan_f77
I don't have any first-hand experience, and I'm sure there are exceptions.
I've heard that GitLab will pay around $80k for a remote software engineer in
a country with a low cost-of-living. That engineer could be earning
$150k-$250k at a different company (e.g. Basecamp, GitHub, etc.)
I realize that $80k is a lot of money for Europe/UK/Asia/South America/rest of
the US. But if you're a top engineer, you could double or triple your income
by working for a different company (or as a consultant.)
I should mention that I don't have any problem with GitLab's compensation, and
I think it's actually pretty fair. But fair doesn't really matter. A top
engineer will just go to the company that pays more. I'm sure GitLab has a lot
of great engineers, but just based on their compensation, I'm pretty sure it's
not one of the best engineering teams in the world.
Here's a few references/articles/job boards:
* [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10924957](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10924957)
* [https://dev.to/sam_ferree/why-i-think-cost-of-living-pay-for...](https://dev.to/sam_ferree/why-i-think-cost-of-living-pay-for-remote-workers-is-bs-5b68) (see some of the comments in there)
* [https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-...](https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-san-francisco-but-now-we-pay-everyone-as-though-all-did-3ee87013cfc2)
* [https://weworkremotely.com](https://weworkremotely.com)
* [https://remoteok.io](https://remoteok.io)
~~~
maccard
They have a calculator [0]
The same job, with the same experience is paid less than half what it is in SF
in the UK. That's not really very enticing.
[https://about.gitlab.com/job-
families/engineering/developer/...](https://about.gitlab.com/job-
families/engineering/developer/#compensation)
~~~
kabes
I don't know how they came to that calculator. But it seems that someone in
Ethiopia would earn $20k more than someone in the Netherlands (outside of
Amsterdam)
------
tfha
If you want to compete with GitHub for open source projects you are going to
need a 'releases' page that's similar (at least in function) to github's.
I would like to see that prioritized more, I think it's more important for
many projects looking to switch than many of the other features listed here
~~~
NickBusey
I just link to the project tags page, since the only tags we have are
releases, this works great.
~~~
tfha
There are no download statistics for that though
------
sciurus
There may be many things you can fault GitLab for, but dreaming big isn't one.
E.G. not many companies would have "becoming a platform-as-a-service" just
casually dropped in their roadmap.
[https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
ce/issues/32820](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/32820)
------
KeitIG
People tends to compare GitLab to Github, to me it seems more they compete
with VSTS or Atlassian.
CI, project management (epics and roadmaps), monitoring...
Github introduces really few features but seems to make them right, or really
limited, but never “bad”.
Gitlab on the opposite, works more with super-fast and open iterations,
without hesitating to roll-back if it just doesn’t work.
------
abuldauskas
One of my major pain points with GitLab was its API. The lack of coherent API
design ultimately made me lose hope in the product. For example I think it
still lacks an ability to create threads on MRs. Until recently it wasn't
possible to approve any MRs either, for 10+ versions of the product and 4+
versions of the api, but adding emoji was... The disjointed API made it nearly
impossible to create quality tooling on top of GitLab, ultimately forcing us
away from the product. It left a poor taste in my mouth, with a sense that
there was no rhyme or reason to the direction of the platform, unfortunately.
~~~
sytse
Are the APIs you need added now or are there ones still missing? Anything we
can improve in the API organization?
------
ephimetheus
Triggering pipelines only in merge request is what we’ve really really been
hoping for for quite while. Still seems pretty far out unfortunately...
~~~
lloeki
If you use the GitLab convention of naming your branches from the issue (like
it does when creating a MR straight from the issue), the MR branches will be
named /^\d+-/ so you can add a only: clause to .gitlab-ci.yml steps matching
that.
~~~
Drdrdrq
Probably a different issue, but one of my greatest gripes with CI is that I
can't limit steps to (for example) master branch AND having a tag. It seems
such a basic requirement, but is unfortunately not possible via .gitlab-
ci.yml.
------
dogweather
I find GitLab's upgrade tiers oddly chosen and quirkily implemented:
* The features don't seem to follow the costs of running them. I.e., they're economically inefficient. This makes GitLab less competitive. E.g., Some features held back for higher paying customers feel arbitrary in the sense that it's a marketing decision, not an ops/cost decision.
* Permanent nag text and nag links - annoying.
------
AFNobody
GitLab should, frankly, focus on performance/ux/bug-fix releases every other
release. And probably for the next 2-3 releases to get some of the warts under
control.
This constant push for project management features, frankly, is at the expense
of the core product. I'd rather use a combination of GitHub and JIRA over
Gitlab.
~~~
sytse
What is the nr. 1 performance/ux/bugfix you would like to see?
BTW This month we shipped 35 performance improvements
[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-
org/-/merge_requests?scope=...](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-
org/-/merge_requests?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=merged&label_name%5B%5D=performance&milestone_title=11.1)
and there were 141 bugs closed in the release of this month
[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-
org/-/issues?scope=all&utf8...](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-
org/-/issues?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=closed&milestone_title=11.1&label_name\[\]=bug)
~~~
omeid2
I have a feeling that many people who constantly ask for "fixes" are the kind
of people who want to "fix them all", by rewriting without understanding that
it is a never ending cycle. Don't pay attention to them. Just do your thing.
Gitlab has provided the much needed competition with real impact (consider
Github boards, for example) and you have a company that can pay many people a
living. That is more than good enough.
~~~
sytse
Thank you very much for the encouragement, I appreciate it after significant
commenting today while flying from Mexico to San Francisco. You can rest
assured we'll keep working on our vision
[https://about.gitlab.com/direction/product-
vision/](https://about.gitlab.com/direction/product-vision/)
The people that ask for fixes care about GitLab and are worth listening to.
There is an almost infinite demand for new features and we can't make them all
(even with more then 2000 open source contributors). But I've found that
Hacker News readers have great insights and we'll keep listening and adjusting
were we missed the mark.
GitLab as a company was born on Hacker News
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4428278](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4428278)
and although the tone these days feels like different I hope it is a bond for
live.
~~~
Qwertie
I just wanted to add that I have been absolutely loving gitlab. Signed up in
2014 and use it pretty much daily.
One of the biggest problems I had was the speed of the web ui but since the
great github migration the speed increased massively and has stayed snappy.
Contributing code to GitLab has also been my favorite experience with open
source as not only were my changes looked at, Gitlab developers actually
helped me get things working and write better code.
~~~
sytse
Thanks so much for commenting, awesome to hear you're loving GitLab.
We made a lot of performance improvements, I'm glad you're benefitting from
them. On
[https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/engineering/performance/#p...](https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/engineering/performance/#past-
and-current-performance) you can see what we're measuring. The monitoring of
our biggest merge request
[https://dashboards.gitlab.net/d/1EBTz3Dmz/sitespeed-page-
sum...](https://dashboards.gitlab.net/d/1EBTz3Dmz/sitespeed-page-
summary?orgId=1&var-base=sitespeed_io&var-path=default&var-
group=gitlab_com&var-page=_gitlab-org_gitlab-ce_merge_requests_9546&var-
browser=chrome&var-connectivity=native&var-
function=median&from=now-30d&to=now) shows of our fixes regressed and we're
looking into what is going wrong. Screenshot for people reading this in the
future:
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlriugkzknu2tl9/Screenshot%202018-...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlriugkzknu2tl9/Screenshot%202018-07-22%2022.15.42.png?dl=0)
There is a lot more work to do and we'll keep shipping performance
improvements in code and to our infrastructure. The tentative date for our
migration to GCP is next weekend.
I'm so glad to hear that contributing code to GitLab was a favorite
experience! Kudos to our merge request coaches who try to get every merge
request over the finish line with a high quality.
~~~
sytse
The migration to GCP is now scheduled for August 11. See
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSSnHIgZoKXt_HuT...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSSnHIgZoKXt_HuTgypvfqzLxh4GMzZ43JK7LrPMtd65M7YCPx1sY4lvj7l27O0Vs7B9KUGj1VFcidq/pub)
------
substring
Gitlabs security is absolutely horrific:
[https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
list/vendor_id-1307...](https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
list/vendor_id-13074/Gitlab.html)
~~~
sytse
None of these was out in the wild. We take pride in requesting CVE numbers to
aid our users in remediation. We think that identifying and promptly fixing
vulnerabilities is key to security.
------
apple4ever
I'd love much more work on Issues. I'd replace JIRA with it if I could, but
Issues is very feature poor (and we are a light JIRA use case).
------
coderesearch
EU GDPR compatibility would be a cool thing - I am sure that people have been
asking for that "long time enough" ago.
Also now that this software has left prototype status for long enough time -
why are you still using ruby?
Ruby is much too slow and bloated for production - there are only a few
companies out there that missed the right time to jump from the ruby-
prototype-bloat and have enough money to burn to just stick with it, but for a
project like gitlab this is a huge problem. Judging from the roadmap there
seem to be many bored developers with no good ideas about what to do next, so
maybe unbloating could be a good direction?
There must be at least one person in that team with a feeling for
architectural brilliance?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Real world examples using homoiconicity? - jasonwatkinspdx
I'm interested in example code that uses homoiconicity well. I'm not interested in pedagogical examples, such as the excellent and oft cited meta-circular evaluator.<p>I'd also be interested to hear the opinions of lisp users and the like on the benefits of homoiconic code vs the risks of using eval() or the equivalent.
======
pavelludiq
I only know lisp, so I'll use it as an example, but there are other homoiconic
languages out there.
In lisp i can do this:
(eval (cons '+ '(1 2 3)))
What i did was that i added the symbol + to the front of the list (1 2 3) to
get (+ 1 2 3) which is a valid lisp expression, and i eval-ed it resulting in
6.
i can do other such things:
(eval (reverse '(3 2 1 +)))
I take the list (3 2 1 +) which is an invalid lisp expression, and i reverse
it, giving me (+ 1 2 3).
See what we did here? We took a datastructure and we transformed it into
something the lisp compiler can recognize as a valid form. We can do this
because lisp code is expressed as lisp datastructures(thats what homoiconic
means).
~~~
jasonwatkinspdx
These are great teaching examples, but what I haven't seen yet is how it can
be used solving problems or implementing algorithms. I'm very curious what
such code looks like and how homoiconicity is leveraged to advantage.
~~~
pavelludiq
Ok then, check out this awesome DSL example screencast in common lisp:
<http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2005-07-08-1>
I don't know how much common lisp you know, but you asked for a real example.
Also check out this awesome talk by Shriram Krishnamurthi:
[http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Talks/SwineBeforePe...](http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Talks/SwineBeforePerl/)
(audio and slides). It uses scheme. There are many more examples, but these
are just off the top of my head.
~~~
jasonwatkinspdx
Thanks, I'll check these out.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Write a Shell in C (2015) - pvsukale3
https://brennan.io/2015/01/16/write-a-shell-in-c/
======
chubot
If you want to see a pretty complete shell in a higher level language (Python,
11K lines of code), check out:
[https://github.com/oilshell/oil/](https://github.com/oilshell/oil/)
And a blog here: [http://www.oilshell.org/](http://www.oilshell.org/) (index:
[http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/11/20.html](http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/11/20.html))
This article is good in that it shows that starting processes boils down to
the system calls fork(), exec(), wait(), etc.
My shell has function calls, loops, conditionals, pipelines, subshells,
command substitution, redirects, here docs, etc. (The code has some messiness,
but the architecture is clean IMO.)
It turns out that these features require just a few more system calls --
dup2() and fcntl() to manipulate file descriptors, pipe(), and open() / read()
/ write() / close(). It's a good reminder of how simple Unix is. The
complexity of the shell is basically all in string processing, and not in
interfacing with the kernel (although the interactive parts of the shell do
complicate things).
These system calls are all available in Python, so the code ends up being
comparable to what you would write in C (and I'm in the process of porting to
C++ now that the architecture has settled.)
~~~
jodrellblank
Microsoft PowerShell is pretty complete in a higher level langage (C#, mostly)
and is open source on Github here:
[https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell](https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell)
~~~
userbinator
...and absurdly complex.
One of the quick tests I like to do to ascertain the complexity of a codebase
is "how long does it take to find the entrypoint" and "how long does it take
to find the core functionality"?
In this case, I have been clicking around through nearly empty directories for
15+ minutes and haven't seen anything that looks like an entrypoint yet,
nevermind the main loop.
In contrast, I downloaded the Bash source and within 5 minutes found the main
loop (eval.c) and entrypoint (shell.c).
Now I'm curious to know what the cmd.exe source is like, but MS seems to have
no intention of releasing that.
~~~
i336_
Some hand-wavily relevant comments:
\- I had the exact same problem - "how do I get at the entrypoint and follow
this" \- only earlier today, with Chromium. I was trying to figure out why
sync was broken and thought I'd try and follow the (C++) breadcrumbs. It
didn't go very well.
[https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=671498](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=671498)
\- AFAIK, cmd.exe is basically a horrible, horrible hack. I'm not 100% sure,
but I think an instance of cmd.exe is the only way you can run things with a
stdout, as in Windows has no concept of TTYs - the cmd.exe process uses a
bunch of undocumented kernel interface APIs to "make it work™". Related:
[https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/111#issuec...](https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/111#issuecomment-238302654)
~~~
i336_
Edit/Update: PSA, if you use a sync passphrase with Chrome your history from
other devices doesn't show up in chrome://history. Known bug, will hopefully
be rearchitected long-term.
I have to say though, the writeup on that Chromium ticket I filed was
absolutely awesome. Did someone here notice...? :P
------
unwind
This is very well written, and it seems the author has already used the great
code reviewing powers of the Internet (there are references to improvements
from Reddit comments).
I suffer from compulsory C review disorder, so just a few quick points:
\- The pattern "x = realloc(x, ...)" is a bad idea, it leaks the original
memory on failure. Since the code seems to car about its memory management
(and since it's a tutorial), I think this is worth mentioning (and fixing).
\- I generally recommend against scaling string allocations by sizeof (char);
that's always 1 so it doesn't _do_ anything. Some people seem to feel that
it's part of a general usage pattern that makes the intent more clear, though.
\- I would recommend more "const" and "static", but some people seem to not
care.
\- I would use more size_t rather than int for things that are sizes. This is
more clear, and also safer since it's unsigned.
\- Using strtok() is not always the best choice, it has issues, but here it's
basically doing what it was designed to do I guess.
~~~
codemusings
> The pattern "x = realloc(x, ...)" is a bad idea, it leaks the original
> memory on failure. Since the code seems to car about its memory management
> (and since it's a tutorial), I think this is worth mentioning (and fixing).
What would the alternative be here? Allocate a new region, copy everything
over and free the other region? Or is there something better?
> I generally recommend against scaling string allocations by sizeof (char);
> that's always 1 so it doesn't do anything. Some people seem to feel that
> it's part of a general usage pattern that makes the intent more clear,
> though.
Isn't this just a habit born out of portability concerns?
~~~
unwind
The alternative is to use a separate variable:
y = realloc(x, ...);
Then if it fails, you can still free(x) before continuing. Of course, if
you're going to exit() due to the failure it doesn't matter and perhaps that's
why the original code looks that way. I still think it's worth pointing out,
though.
About sizeof (char), there can be no "portability concerns", and that very
thing is what I think gives rise to a lot of (in my opinion, bad) cargo cult
programming. The value of "sizeof (char)" in C is 1. Note that I didn't say
"using GCC x.y.z on x86". It's true for all conforming compilers, on all
platforms, and on all architectures. It's defined by the language.
~~~
Sean1708
> The value of "sizeof (char)" in C is 1.
For those who might not be aware, this _does not_ mean that a char is always 8
bits.
~~~
presto8
According to C99 spec, the maximum number of bits for the smallest object that
is not a bit-field is 8 bits. See "CHAR_BIT" in the C99 spec.
[1] [http://www.open-
std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf](http://www.open-
std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf)
~~~
daurnimator
Smallest. It might be larger (and infact it is in a lot of DSP toolchains)
------
foota
My university has a project where you implement a shell in c from scratch with
most of the commonly known features of bash -- scripting, file redirection,
command substitution, the whole nine yards. Needless to say it's a mess by the
end.
~~~
codemusings
Does the scripting part utilize ready made libraries or is it implemented from
scratch?
~~~
foota
By scripting I mean if, while, and friends (maybe for, I don't remember)
It's also from scratch (no libraries).
The professor provides an extensive test suite to check your implementation.
------
moyix
A nice complement to this article is the MIT 6.828 shell exercise. It provides
the command loop and parsing for you, and then has you implement command
execution, redirection, and pipes.
[https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2016/homework/xv6-shell.htm...](https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2016/homework/xv6-shell.html)
------
emmelaich
The classic for me of an exposition of writing a shell is Advanced UNIX
Programming by Marc Rochkind (Bell labs guy and author of SCCS) (not to be
confused with W Richard Steven's text which is also excellent)
[http://basepath.com/aup/](http://basepath.com/aup/)
First published in 1985; for me ranks up there with K&R The C Programming
Language and K&P The UNIX Programming Environment.
~~~
chubot
Where does it talk about writing a shell?
As far as I can tell, it's about using the kernel programming interface, which
is of course very relevant to writing a shell. But I don't see anything about
the shell specifically here:
[http://basepath.com/aup/toc.htm](http://basepath.com/aup/toc.htm)
~~~
emmelaich
Starting from section 5.4, Implementing a shell, version 1
As it suggests, he adds features to the shell as he introduces the system
calls needed. You can see the source here
[http://basepath.com/aup/ex/group__AUP2ex.html#Chap](http://basepath.com/aup/ex/group__AUP2ex.html#Chap).
5
See files sh0.c (for versions 1 2 3) and sh3.c for version 4.
~~~
chubot
Yes this looks nice. xv6 has a tiny shell as well:
[https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2016/xv6.html](https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2016/xv6.html)
------
BugsBunnySan
I tried to implement a shell in C once, just to see how to do it. Until I
realized, I was basically just writting a shell language interpreter, and thus
implementing a lexer and parser for that language manually (which it seems is
exactly what happens in the article).
Which made the whole project boring to me, since it would've just come down to
3 well-defined, already solved problems: 1\. write shell language grammar file
2.Use something like flex/bison (nowadays maybe antlr, or whatever) to
generate the shell language parser 3\. Implement the behaviour of the shell as
reactions to parser events
At that wasn't interesting because: 1\. I wanted to be POSIX compatible, the
POSIX shell langauge is well defined, writing the grammar for that would've
been boring 2\. Boring by design, the whole point of using parser generators
is making compiler/interpreter writing an easy, boring task 3\. Arguably, this
would've been interesting, to see how to do it. But if you already have a deep
understandidg how a *nix shell does what it does, not that interesting
anymore...
~~~
chubot
A shell is indeed an interpreter for a programming language, and you do need a
lexer and a parser (actually 4 parsers, and my lexer requires 13 modes).
But that's not what's happening in the article -- he is showing a simple REPL
and fork() exec(), which is about as much as you can expect to do in an
article that long. lsh_split_line() in no way resembles a real shell lexer,
and there is no parser, since there are no programming language features like
function calls, loops, and conditionals. Not to mention pipelines, subshells,
and redirects.
I think you're overestimating the power of flex, bison, and ANTLR. I actually
ported the POSIX shell grammar to ANTLR -- it's not usable as the basis for a
shell parser. The POSIX grammar also only covers 1 of 4 sublanguages in shell,
and it's a significantly smaller language than bash.
Bash uses bison/yacc, and maintainer Chet Ramey talks about how it was a
mistake here:
[http://www.aosabook.org/en/bash.html](http://www.aosabook.org/en/bash.html)
My blog is basically about parsing bash, and I discovered a lot of interesting
things:
[http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/10/20.html](http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/10/20.html)
[http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/11/01.html](http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/11/01.html)
[http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/10/17.html](http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/10/17.html)
~~~
BugsBunnySan
Well, very interesting indeed! Cool that you actually went through with
writing a complete shell :)
I guess, I might've been too optimistic about the power of parser generators.
Still, I think if someone were to start implementing a shell, I'd advise them
to start with the grammer/lexer/parser part, either implementing them
themselves or trying some of the generators. I think it's the right way to go
about it (just wasn't what I thought I'd be doing when implementing a shell,
at the time)
I did do a few things with parser generators though. Granted, nothing (yet) as
complex as bash or even just POSIX, but still, they each had their own little
trickinesses. E.g.:
[https://github.com/BugsBunnySan/edl](https://github.com/BugsBunnySan/edl)
(ANTLR4 / Python)
[https://github.com/BugsBunnySan/Phat-
Agnus](https://github.com/BugsBunnySan/Phat-Agnus) (YAPP / Perl)
------
teddyh
He completely misses a very important aspect: Signal handling. Fortunately,
there is a page covering this complex topic well:
[https://www.cons.org/cracauer/sigint.html](https://www.cons.org/cracauer/sigint.html)
~~~
userbinator
Best read in combination with
[http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/](http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/)
------
avinassh
This is a such a great tutorial. I don't code in C at all and I hardly
understand the language. Yet, I was able to follow this and understand.
I mostly write Python and if you are looking for a shell written in Python,
check xon.sh [0]
[0] - [http://xon.sh](http://xon.sh)
------
peterwwillis
Read uClibc and Busybox code. They're both fun platforms to hack on and the
people who wrote them know a little bit about C.
~~~
x0
As someone who still considers himself a beginner at C, busybox source code is
fun as hell to read. So many "Oh, so that's how you do that" moments.
------
kazinator
It's not a shell up to late 1980's standards until it handles POSIX job
control (Ctrl-Z suspend, move another job from background to foreground) and
traps Ctrl-C interrupts to return to the prompt.
Adding some of these requirements as an afterthought into a command
interpreter will likely be a pain in the butt. Ctrl-C is usually done with a
longjmp(). Unplanned introductions of setjmp/longjmp into a code base could
wind up with leaks or stability issues. (Side note: don't write a shell in C:
pick some open source managed language in which it is safe to throw an
exception out of a signal handler.)
Another requirement is arranging pipes, and handling out-of-order termination
of the pipeline elements; a shell must juggle multiple child processes in
order to support pipes. Pipes are put into process groups called jobs, etc.
Without all these features, you don't have a Unix shell; just an interpreter
for a simple command language.
~~~
chubot
For Ctrl-C and longjmp(), are you talking about builtin shell commands? I
think it will "just work" for external processes. They receive SIGINT and
terminate, and then the shell gets control again.
I guess I need to do a test of doing some expensive computation in bash, and
then hitting Ctrl-C. Like doing the mandelbrot set or something.
~~~
kazinator
Hello, World test case:
bash$ while true ; do : ; done
^C
bash$
~~~
chubot
Good tip, thanks!
I think you can use any of C++ exceptions, explicit returns, or setlongjmp().
setlongjmp() doesn't work well with C++ destructors. The interpreter loop just
has to check for a flag set by the signal handler and then pop back to the
interactive loop.
I noticed that the Lua parser uses setlongjmp() when compiled as C, but C++
exceptions when compiled as C++.
------
faragon
Also, you can check the original sh by Stephen R. Bourne (Bell Labs, [1]). Or
the original csh by Bill Joy (BSD, [2]). In Github there is a huge repository
with a collage of Unix History, where is possible to check how shells have
been evolved ([3]).
[1] [https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/Bell-
Re...](https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/Bell-
Release/usr/src/cmd/sh)
[2] [https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-
repo/tree/BSD-2-S...](https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-
repo/tree/BSD-2-Snapshot-Development/src/csh)
[3] [https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-
repo](https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo)
------
i336_
Hi.
I'll just leave this here.
[http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.unix.shell/2009-10...](http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.unix.shell/2009-10/msg00324.html)
Like shells? This is the link you didn't know you were looking for, but were
hoping to find anyway.
~~~
danwakefield
Great links. Would have come in helpful a year ago. I built most of (d)ash
clone in Go as part of my UnderGrad dissertation.
[https://github.com/danwakefield/gosh](https://github.com/danwakefield/gosh)
------
zeveb
This is definitely a cool little tutorial, but I'd strongly caution anyone
who's writing string-handling software (and what is a shell _but_ string-
handling software: the input and the output are all strings!) not to write it
in C. There are higher-level languages with good string support which support
fork(), exec(), wait() & friends, and are far less susceptible to string-
handling and memory errors.
That said, a shell's remarkably limited scope is actually something C _is_
reasonably suited for.
~~~
chubot
I don't think there are that many languages that are good for writing a shell.
There seem to be a few shells written in Go, but Go only reluctantly supports
fork(), because it interacts with its threaded runtime. Python is actually
closer to what you want than Go, but I think it will end up having problems
with signal handling, because the Python interpreter does its own signal
handling. The prototype of my shell is written in Python [1].
Garbage collection almost always interacts poorly with signal handling. You
can't interrupt a garbage collector at an arbitrary point.
I wanted to bootstrap my shell [1] with Lisp -- and I hacked on femtolisp
because Julia is bootstrapped in exactly this manner. And for awhile I thought
about using an OCaml front end.
But in the end I settled on C++ (writing 3K lines of code, which I plan to
return to after my prototype is done.) C++ lets you do fork(), exec() and
handle signals exactly as in C, but it actually has useful string
abstractions!
C++ has a lot of problems, but it appears to be the best tool for this job.
[1] [https://github.com/oilshell/oil/](https://github.com/oilshell/oil/)
~~~
kazinator
I think that a shell is doable using my TXR Lisp as a base.
As far as signal handling goes, it's in the box. See this Rosetta Code example
under the task "Find limits of recursion" where we catch a SIGSEGV using a TXR
Lisp lambda (running on an alternate stack via sigaltstack):
[https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Find_limit_of_recursion#TXR](https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Find_limit_of_recursion#TXR)
Handling a SIGINT:
[https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Handle_a_signal#TXR](https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Handle_a_signal#TXR)
Programming reference:
[http://www.nongnu.org/txr/txr-
manpage.html#N-010CFD89](http://www.nongnu.org/txr/txr-
manpage.html#N-010CFD89)
You don't have to worry about signal handlers and garbage collection.
If you need to do something in C++, the TXR code base will support you. Though
it is C, it all compiles in C++, which I check for regressions every release.
(At this time, I won't accept patches which break away from C compatibility
and cause C++ to be _required_ , but for experimenting and forking off your
own thing, there it is.) Just ./configure cc=g++ and off you go.
TXR also integrates a nicely hacked version of Linenoise that could be used to
bootstrap the shell command prompt. I rewrote the multi-line support so that
it is excellent. There is visual cut/copy/paste, paren matching, undo, and
more. (It's the only part of TXR without proper Unicode support,
unfortunately: in the TODO list.)
~~~
chubot
Yes, interesting project, and I think it would work. But femtolisp would work
fine too... In the end I decided not to use a Lisp because it wasn't making me
more productive. It felt a bit unstructured.
Instead, it looks like I will generate a lot of C++ from Python to control the
complexity (and line count).
For example, right now I'm working with Zephyr ASDL, which is basically a DSL
for algebraic data types which can bridge Python and C++. You can do this in
Lisps too of course, but Python works just as well in this case. Julia is
interesting because the lexer and parser are in femtolisp, and that enables
Julia macros.
If I'm reading your page right, Python handles signals the same way -- it
receives the signal in C, and then runs a Python handler later on the main
interpreter loop. I think you pretty much have to do it that way.
(But Python has some logic about turning certain signals into exceptions on
the main thread, which I don't want to bother with.)
I wrote on some related topics here:
[http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/12/05.html](http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/12/05.html)
~~~
kazinator
TXR has deferred signals as well as async ones. Both the Rosetta examples show
async signals going off: lambda being called in the signal handler context.
For the SIGSEGV catch, this must be so: the lambda executes on the alternate
stack arranged with sigaltstack.
There is a flag which enables or disables async signals. In the case of a CPU
exception signal (SEGV, BUS, ILL, FPE, ...), we ignore this flag and just do
async. Other signals respect the async flag. The async flag is almost always
off; async signals are enabled in various places in the library when blocking
system calls are being made. So for instance an async signal won't go off
during garbage collection; the internal handler will see that async signaling
is disabled, and arrange for a deferred call at the next opportunity (unless
it is a CPU exception).
------
johnnycarcin
Very cool, thanks for sharing. I'm a go person so I tried to "port" this over
to go: [https://github.com/esell/eshell](https://github.com/esell/eshell)
Will be a great base to start with and should be a great learning experience
trying to make it more functional.
------
MichaelMoser123
Lots of projects need their own CLI for administration purposes, here there
are ready tools for command line parsing - like GNU readline (or
editline/libedit if you can't work with the GPL), these are very useful as
they do such things as tab completion, etc.
------
growt
Here is a lib I wrote for shell experiments in PHP:
[https://github.com/grothkopp/PHPCliWrapper](https://github.com/grothkopp/PHPCliWrapper)
------
Frogolocalypse
That's fantastic.
------
duongtran2508
Nice, love it
------
godmodus
aah, implementing a shell in C.
sweet, sweet nightmares of yonder.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
MySQLTuner - paraschopra
http://blog.mysqltuner.com/faq/
======
piers
If you want to download it just wget mysqltuner.pl
~~~
paraschopra
There is another one: <http://www.day32.com/MySQL/>
But it throws error on my Ubuntu box.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Trump.css (Lets Make Padding and Margin Great Again) - rakibtg
https://github.com/rakibtg/trump.css
======
leonatan
I always shy away from projects that mix politics with code, even if it is
just a playful satire. Especially when such a revolting figure is chosen.
~~~
lizardskull
CSS has some poor ideas but calling it revolting is harsh and rude. A builder
of huge beautiful buildings like Trump could be better represented by
framework for SVG anyway.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Play reviews delivered into Slack and your inbox - zsedbal
http://reviewcatz.com/
======
zsedbal
Can you recommend me other services like this?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tilted Toilet: The corporate poo patrol is coming after your toilet time - smacktoward
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/battle-toilet-workplace
======
sp332
I'm still not convinced this is a real thing. All the images seem to be
renders. The link that's supposed to show that the BTA "approved" the toilet
is just a press release. The Twitter and LinkedIn links just go to the home
pages, not to any specific account.
At least the "pending" patent number seems to be actually pending.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Swedish Loneliness - mwidell
https://micaelwidell.com/the-swedish-loneliness/
======
randcraw
I wonder, why do Swedes feel the need for independence? Is it a need for
security? Or difficulty sharing life with others?
And why does this problem seem to get worse as people gain wealth? Why does
increasing affluence seem to always engender greater separation, especially if
it makes us less happy?
I don't think this is unique to Swedes. Other north european peoples seem to
suffer comparably, like Norgewians. And I think it's common in America too,
and seems to arise in communities of all ethnic origin. Wealthy americans of
all regional and ethnic extractions seem to follow the same trajectory, I
think, with essentially the same outcome.
Wealth seems to breed isolation, and unhappiness. Yet few with wealth ever
choose to let go of Xanadu and return to Rosebud.
~~~
jack9
> why do Swedes feel the need for independence
I suspect it's due to a happy lifestyle. I don't "suffer" from it in my own
words. I'm happy and very solitary. It's how I've always been (being the
smartest, fearless, capable and most interesting person I know). Now, being
that the concept of friendship having different levels of intimacy, you can do
the math (see Proverbs 18:24 via Luke Cage S01E09). At a certain point, your
learn to shed unreliable friends and real friends die off or move away or
change...suffice to say it's rare that you're going to follow alongside their
life path _when you have means_. I've been _perfectly_ satisfied with my life
about 8 times and most of those were when I was alone. I will probably die
very much alone and as close to perfectly happy as I can manage. I just don't
see it as a problem, but as a coping mechanism for lower income communities.
It's probably true that I could be happy with other people, but I just can't
stand most of them outside of work (I can limit relationships to working
toward a common goal).
~~~
illo
In case anybody wants to hear a different bell, I am probably as wealthy as
jack9 and equally happy about my lifestyle, but I love people and I've never
lived alone in all my life. My opinion is that it's more a matter of having
different social needs and sensitivity, than being economically independent.
Or maybe it's what you think of yourself -- I know for a fact that there are
always smarter and more interesting and different people out there and I'd
love to know them and experience life with them. It's a basic need I feel that
doesn't depend on whether I'm able to support myself or not.
------
dba7dba
How sad.
------
pattisapu
subsidized hikikomori
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Looking for founders for three startup ideas - rchaudhary
https://medium.com/@henrysward/carta-ventures-looking-for-founders-d22b2baf7f75
======
quacked
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the intent of this post, but I'm reminded of a
hilarious Facebook group I used to be in called "I'll handle the business
side".
Example of the types of posts screenshotted and shared in said group: "hi i
have an excellent idea for a startup, easily compete with Facebook/Google, i
need a lead programmer you need to have 10+ years experience in javascript and
C. i cannot pay you but if you build a model platform I will look at it and if
i like it i will use it for my idea and you will get equity in my company.
cannot offer salary. please respond immediately"
~~~
TheFullStack
No you don't get it. THESE guys are different!
~~~
toomuchtodo
Carta needs these services to thrive as a private equity marketplace/"book
entry" recordkeeper, while anyone building a startup for these services would
be better served getting funding and an acqui-hire from Wall Street and other
traditional financial services orgs with incredibly deep pockets.
------
meddlin
> Carta is a fun company because the more problems we solve, the more problems
> we get to solve.
So, you're like every other company? I used to work as a Soft. Eng. for a
particular Fortune 500 company in the outdoor/pool luxury industry. They've
been around ~40 years. Technologically though, woefully immature. Every
e-commerce problem we solved was answered with another "fun" problem to solve.
What makes you different?
Let's look at the "ideas"
\- Total compensation, "problem": Ah, so data mining and monetization.
\- Portfolio analytics, "problem": ...you want data analysis?
\- Sell-side Research Firm: "There will be a market for sell-side research."
...umm, why? Why would those private venture-backed companies WANT to be
associated with you? Then you're differentiating factor is...marketing?
Finally, why are you posting this here? On HN? At best, it's misguided. At
worst, it's tone-deaf or shady. If your ideas and motivations are legit then
keep building. Put your own hours and sleepless nights behind it. Prove
yourself. Show there is actually market demand for what you claim. Then come
back. Offer value before asking for it.
------
aprdm
So you want people to apply with what a v1 of the product should look like and
a vision ? Why should people do that for free and what guarantees do they have
you won’t Profit off the suggestions ?
IMO this is very shady.
~~~
kordlessagain
I've heard the story that the idea doesn't matter. It's the team that matters,
with a good idea. I'm not saying this is true or not. Probably depends.
In this case, they are presenting their "ideas" as a "shell" of an idea and
soliciting anyone who is willing to match their expectations in "good team".
They talk about a product by a Sell-Side Research Firm which enables a "robust
research industry to help investors make better trading decisions". That's not
a product. It's a meme. They even say it:
Think Morningstar for private markets.
A better idea is an AI crawler just for me, which only crawls what is relevant
and deletes the rest from the search index.
------
taytus
It looks super shady.
If you believe these are fields of potential massive growth, then why you
don't develop them in situ?
And if someone else is working on that already... why you don't acqui-hire
them?
~~~
mannykannot
> If you believe these are fields of potential massive growth, then why you
> don't develop them in situ?
Because they have a list of three problems, not of three solutions?
------
simonebrunozzi
On one side, I think it's nice that a company decides to explore/fund new
ideas and products by giving someone an entrepreneurial-like offer.
At the same time, a great founder shouldn't need to do this via Carta, and I'd
be worried a lot about Carta's real intention.
Not sure how Carta could defuse these concerns, though. Perhaps they're well
intentioned but it's hard for them to prove it.
~~~
flyGuyOnTheSly
>At the same time, a great founder shouldn't need to do this via Carta, and
I'd be worried a lot about Carta's real intention.
Would you say the same holds true for ycombinator's seed accelerator program?
~~~
simonebrunozzi
It might sound arrogant, but yes, it should apply to everything, to a degree.
I'd say that YC is probably the highest value among the "seed" things that
exist out there, and therefore it would apply to it less than this Carta
initiative.
Would you agree?
------
toomuchtodo
@Carta: What's the benefit to this model vs hiring and directing the products
development internally? Besides a possible seed round, the other benefits
(public API/infra, office space, access to Carta folks) appear to be of
limited value for these endeavors.
~~~
verganileonardo
Probably sharing risk (and upside) and attracting a different profile
------
sonofaplum
The funny thing about this is one of their product idea is quantitative
analysis for VCs... And then they say send us a pitch, we don't care about
numbers at all!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Virtual Envelopes - minton
http://michaelminton.com/post/25364062274/virtual-envelopes
======
minton
Does anyone know if Simple (formerly Bank Simple) has this feature?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The New Golden Age of Renting? - jasonlbaptiste
http://worldaccordingtocarp.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/the-new-golden-age-of-renting/
======
cianestro
Any europeans here on HN? I had a german professor last semester tell me many
schools/teachers don't require students to buy specific textbooks and do
homework problem sets in Europe. They just expect their students to understand
the material, turn in good labs or essays, and pass the tests. He was
obviously criticizing that american college students are spoon-fed their
education.
~~~
benJIman
Indeed. I live in the UK and had no need to buy a single text book throughout
my degree (Computer Science). There were usually a few equivalent suggested
books for each module. We were free to purchase or borrow any of them or use
other sources such as online material.
I bought half a dozen books because they were interesting beyond the course
itself, mostly just used the library and online material though.
------
larsberg
I agree that renting is incredibly popular, but I worry about Chegg's success.
I see more and more students (I'm a Ph.D. student in Computer Science) just
"obtain" a PDF of the book and skip buying new/used or trying a rental
service. The ones who still want dead tree buy copies from India for
significantly less than the rental price, with the only difference some text
on the cover.
~~~
ahk
What's wrong with those things? Obviously books costing $70 or $100 are not
priced to target people subsisting on ramen noodles. And it's only the current
debt-madness which has lead people to think those prices are anywhere near
sane.
~~~
angstrom
[http://www.datc.edu/files/datc/departments/bookstore/textboo...](http://www.datc.edu/files/datc/departments/bookstore/textbook$.pdf)
Like most things, no one is getting terribly rich off textbooks. What bothered
me most in college was when they would release a new edition and refuse to buy
back the old one.Even when the difference between the versions wasn't
noticeable.
~~~
muhfuhkuh
> no one is getting terribly rich off textbooks
That dollar in the PDF is sliced so many different ways and spread apart that
you don't really notice that the publisher takes 64.6% of it. Of an estimated
6 billion dollar market. I'd say _someone_is getting rich off textbooks, but
it ain't the author.
------
ojbyrne
Zipcar just filed for an IPO to payoff their debt. They've got a lot of it.
I also don't see how Chegg deals with some of the things universities/text
book publishers have done to handicap the used textbook market - i.e. having a
new edition every year, with new required problems in the classes.
~~~
olefoo
Negotiating power, and the ability to shift books around the country. They can
demand discounts because they are making bulk orders larger than a single
bookstore and textbooks refresh at 3-year intervals for the most part.
------
bradshaw1965
At least one barrier to the general brand of renting is that it has long been
associated with finance related ripoffs. I think brands like Netflix, etc.
have worked to make their offerings appear as services rather then renting.
------
looprecur
Renting in general (cars, housing) is one of those things that people want
other people to do, but not for themselves, at least not on things they
consider important. For example, if you rent textbooks, you give them up at
the end of the semester... but a lot of people want to have them around for
years later.
An example is that, following the housing crisis, people quipped about how all
"those people" who were taking out bad mortgages should have been renting
instead of buying their homes, and there are a lot of arguments for why
renting is superior to ownership for real estate (repairs done by
professionals, more mobility, etc). But few people actually want to live by
this. They'll gladly rent in their 20s when they're starting out, but they
want to own the house they raise their children in.
~~~
MichaelSalib
_They'll gladly rent in their 20s when they're starting out, but they want to
own the house they raise their children in._
I'm not sure that's really true. The rental and purchase markets tend to offer
different products in most places. So while you can find studio rentals
easily, you can't find rentals for a family of 5 nearly as easily.
Also, in the US, we tend to only see short term lease options for residential
renting (say 12 months). But as you get older and get children, the cost of
moving begins to rise. You've got a lot more stuff and your friends are older
and busier and less inclined to blow a day helping schlep your stuff. So I
think part of what older married people with children are buying when they buy
a house is freedom from having to worry that they'll suddenly have to scramble
to find a new place and then actually move.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: To what extent is everything a matter of the amount of funding? - julienreszka
======
PaulHoule
What is that supposed to mean?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Create a Game Engine but don’t ever use it - majikarp
https://zeroequalsfalse.press/posts/build-game-engine/
======
mimixco
TL;DR = Unity already did it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Unique IPv6 prefix per host [pdf] - fanf2
https://ripe76.ripe.net/presentations/143-rfc8273-v5.pdf
======
ddtaylor
For anyone interested in playing with IPv6 I recommend Vultr their routing
seems to work instantly, where other providers seem to have some churn. On
Linode for example once I start actually using more than ~100 IPv6 endpoints
it starts forgetting the previous ones for a few minute at a time. Vultr does
proper prefix routing it seems.
~~~
sigjuice
And Digital Ocean IPv6 is broken as well. My droplet has a /64, but there's
only a /124 back to my droplet.
Discussion here
[https://digitalocean.uservoice.com/forums/136585-digitalocea...](https://digitalocean.uservoice.com/forums/136585-digitalocean/suggestions/5914490-give-
users-ipv6-64-blocks-when-you-roll-out-ipv6)
~~~
unilynx
It's not broken per-se - the /64 you're seeing is probably the /64 next to
your IP address. But that's just the size of the subnet your droplet is on,
just like a system having '192.168.1.8/24' doesn't imply that all of the
192.168.1.* addresses route to that system
But apart from that, IPv6 at DO is indeed pretty useless without floating ip
support - I'm still not able to use IPv6 on the droplet for application that
need failover
------
magnat
> Provides a very simple mechanism for a single host or interface, to be able
> to run 2^64 virtual machines, with their own global IPv6 address
It's not uncommon to have multiple layers of virtualization (e.g. lxc/docker
running inside qemu/kvm). You'd need top-level hypervisor to passthrough
(bridge?) nested VMs requests back to the router, but then you don't have same
level of isolation.
Configurable prefix length when nesting (/64 at first level, /80 at 2nd, /96
at 3rd if needed) and automated NDP proxying could solve it, though.
------
okket
Video of the talk:
[https://ripe76.ripe.net/archives/video/131/](https://ripe76.ripe.net/archives/video/131/)
------
ra1n85
When I see things like this, I suspect people aren't thinking through all of
the NDP edge cases. Do you really want the potential to have 2^64 NDP entries
on your gateway? What about NUD - do you really want that many potential hosts
performing unreachability detection?
NDP is the abominable child of ARP and an IGP and doesn't scale well. Using
huge address spaces everywhere is a good way to let it crush your network.
~~~
nimbius
perhaps its just my lack of coffee, but I fail to see the scalability issue.
Router Redirection can prune quite a few ndp discovery table entries but
Learned link-layer addresses are kept in a neighbor discovery table. 2^64 link
layer connections are probably not present in a competently designed IPv6
network.
im also confused as to what this paper is talking about in terms of new
features.../64 and per host is already a thing in linux. RADVD for example
allows you to delegate upstream prefixes to additional interfaces in linux
routing. these /64 delegations are handled by the linux host that delegated
them and are only known one step above that router as a singly delegated
prefix from the "gateway." prefix delegation was designed explicitly for the
/64.
if anything home ISP's need a slap on the wrist for their stingy DHCPv6
delegations of what basically amount to a SINGLE ipv6 address or some weird
less-than /64\. splitting a 56 is a better idea here.
~~~
snuxoll
> if anything home ISP's need a slap on the wrist for their stingy DHCPv6
> delegations of what basically amount to a SINGLE ipv6 address or some weird
> less-than /64\. splitting a 56 is a better idea here.
This is the single most infuriating issue with IPv6 rollout in the US.
CenturyLink is starting to roll out native IPv6 support (instead of 6rd which
they've been using for years), the only issue is you get a single /64\. I
mean, I have no use for giving every single host a /64, but I've got five or
six VLAN's and without at least a /56 I've got no way of actually deploying
IPv6 on my network. By the way, this is a business DSL connection too - so
it's not like they shouldn't expect something more than your typical flat home
network where everything sits on a single broadcast domain.
~~~
ra1n85
>I mean, I have no use for giving every single host a /64, but I've got five
or six VLAN's and without at least a /56 I've got no way of actually deploying
IPv6 on my network.
Why can't you subnet the /64? CenturyLink isn't doing dot1q tagging to you, so
you must have a router with tagged interfaces on your network.
Edit: Imagine this is because you want to use SLAAC.
~~~
snuxoll
> Edit: Imagine this is because you want to use SLAAC.
Not just because of SLAAC, prefixes smaller than /64 are likely to mess with
all sorts of assumptions built into networking gear. It may not be "correct"
since there are valid reasons for subnets as small as a /127 (though they are
used infrequently enough at least), but a lot of networking gear cheats with
IPv6 routes to keep the amount of TCAM memory needed down. Why spend 128-bits
per route and quadruple the memory required when you can double it and go
64-bits per route and dump the longer ones to slower DRAM (I mean, you only
use /127's for point-to-point links that don't need link-rate switching
anyway)?
Regardless of anyone's philosophy of address assignment strategies, prefixes
smaller than /64's in IPv6 are un-wise unless you want to degrade into worst-
case routing paths on your network gear.
~~~
ra1n85
Somewhat of a good point, but I don't think it applies here - some
implementations, particularly inexpensive devices like SOC's, do exact search
on common prefix lengths like /64 and /48\. I can't imagine this would be a
huge problem within a home network, though. Even then, DRAM, which is
essentially software switching, is rarely used. Further, you said you had 6
VLANs - this is well within the route scale of the vast majority of network
devices regardless of how they implement their lookup data structures.
Good example: The SRX300, a desktop router/firewall implemented on a MIPS
based Cavium Octeon (both control and data plane) can handle up to 256K IPv6
routes:
[https://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/10...](https://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000550-en.pdf)
The Trident series SOC's can do 8K by default, and 64K with ALPM enabled:
[https://www.juniper.net/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000480-e...](https://www.juniper.net/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000480-en.pdf)
>(I mean, you only use /127's for point-to-point links that don't need link-
rate switching anyway)?
/126's and /127's are often used for PTP's for peering/transit. Line rate is
table stakes. Bear in mind that the gear used in these situations has
plentiful lookup memory (SRAM, RLDRAM, HMC, or HBM).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Gutenberg – A simple interface to the Project Gutenberg corpus - c-w
https://bitbucket.org/c-w/gutenberg
======
c-w
Hey all, OP here.
I built this because I think that Project Gutenberg is a great resource for
NLP (e.g. stylometry, tracking writing styles over time, authorship detection,
...) - I wanted to use the data on Project Gutenberg a number of times in the
past but always ended up using another corpus because there wasn't an easy way
to access the Project Gutenberg data. Hopefully this library fixes that.
The project currently is "works on my machine" quality, so please do report
any bugs you stumble across.
Also, if you can think of any use-cases for the Project Gutenberg data that
aren't easily doable using the functionality that is currently available in
the library, please let me know (e.g. by filing a ticket on the Bitbucket
repo).
------
sethish
This is fantastic!
I just made a github repo for each Gutenber book:
[https://github.com/GITenberg](https://github.com/GITenberg)
This will be very helpful, the XML/RDF files are a hassle.
~~~
walterbell
Are the github repos intended to collect errata? Do you know of a database
which has metadata for all the Gutenberg books?
~~~
c-w
There's a database of RDF files that describe the books
([http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/feeds/rdf-
files.tar.bz2](http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/feeds/rdf-files.tar.bz2)),
but its a bit of a pain to use and doesn't link the books back to the API that
should be used for crawling Project Gutenberg
([http://www.gutenberg.org/robot/harvest](http://www.gutenberg.org/robot/harvest)).
~~~
sethish
I think the previous version of the metadata included a path to the ftp
server. Splitting the book id (4443 -> 4/4/4/4443) works for _most_ books, but
there were somewhere between 800 and 3000 books organized in a different
folder structure that I still need to track down.
------
brickcap
Wow this is just what I have been looking for. A few questions:-
1\. Is it possible to download files in html format? I really prefer ebooks in
html cause I can attach my preferred "readSettings.css" to it that way. *
2\. Is it possible to run a custom script after the book has completed
downloading?
3\. I don't understand what you mean by "Making meta-data about the texts
easily accessible through a database" in the description. Can you expand a bit
on this?
4\. Is it possible to specify other donwload contexts like "genre"
Oh Thanks a lot for this :) I always wanted a command line uitlity for project
gutenberg.
* I also think that html files are lot easier to read on the phone as you can style them where as with the txt files you have got no choice but to use horizontal scrolling unless you are in a landscape mode.
~~~
c-w
Your use-case is not what I built the library for (natural language
processing, not text consumption), but let's see what we can do...
You can download HTML E-Books using the following command:
python -m gutenberg.download -vvv --filetypes=html --limit=5mb ./ebooks
This will download 5mb of zipped E-Books for which there exists an HTML
version to the ./ebooks directory.
It seems as though the legal disclaimers and copyright notices in the HTML
files are all within <pre> tags so we can easily clean-up the files with a
small shell script:
EBOOK_DIR="./ebooks"
find "${EBOOK_DIR}" -name *.zip -type f -exec unzip -d "${EBOOK_DIR}" {} \;
find "${EBOOK_DIR}" -name *.html -type f -exec sed -i '/<[pP][rR][eE]>/,/<\/[pP][rR][eE]>/d' {} \;
This will probably not work for all E-Books, but it'll give you something to
work with. Note that removing the copyright notices may or may not be against
the Project Gutenberg terms of service.
Downloading E-Books via genre, author, etc. is not currently supported but is
something that I wanted to implement - so watch this space.
------
tokai
+1 for bitbucket
------
sroerick
This is really awesome.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GeoFire: Location Queries for Fun and Profit - shiftb
https://www.firebase.com/blog/2013-09-25-location-queries-geofire.html
======
kav-ya
(I worked on the GeoFire library) GeoFire converts the latitude-longitude
coordinates of a data point to its geohash, and stores the data in Firebase at
the geohash. The properties of geohashes and Firebase play nicely together to
make it easy to implement localized search and location querying.
~~~
grinich
This is just points right? Any plans to expand to other shapes? (ie: PostGIS)
I wonder if anyone has substituted a Hilbert space representation for
geohashes... ;)
------
systemizer
Like the idea of using Geohashes to quickly search for "near" objects and then
using the client's processing to extract lat/lngs. I've setup postgis before
and it was more of a hassle than I wanted it to be. This alleviates some of
the pain :)
------
poof131
Spent the past month putting together an app with Angular, Firebase, and Geo.
All three play together very well and have significantly reduced the dev time.
Thinking about how much more work I would still have to do without Firebase
and Geo gives me shivers.
------
raulzito234
Very good!. It's impressive how much work you take out of the people that want
to develop new Applications/Websites/Services! This is really nice!
~~~
kombeneah
Location intelligence is becoming more and more central to customization of
user experience on all sorts of software systems. I like where this is headed!
------
kombeneah
I like this, geohashing is a nice way to go. And true, I've played around with
PostGIS too and the pain wasn't unnoticeable.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
HELP: Join as cofounder or first employee? - gfenny
I have the possibility of joining a startup (still working on prototype, no sales or funding yet)<p>Im being offered to join as first employee, which would mean some equity but probably nothing comparable to the founders.<p>I feel I can add a lot of value to the startup, but it seems like theyre not open to having another cofounder, as they say that it is their project and have already refused others to join<p>On one hand, I know I have the skills to be a cofounder and get more equity, and Id feel like im selling myself short if I bring so much value but getting only a fraction of the future returns, also, id feel like im building and working for someone else to profit from, instead of building something that I can also be a real part of<p>On the other hand, I believe in the project and I dont want to lose out on the opportunity. It could also be a good learning experience for me for the future.<p>What would you do if you were in my position?
======
andrei_says_
I’d remind myself the following:
\- ideas are a multiplier to execution and essentially worth nothing without
the execution
\- a business-savvy founder who is willing to walk the walk, knock on doors,
sell the product, is a multiplier to the viability of the product.
\- 9 out of 10 (or so) startups fail. So most likely, this one will fail. How
much (calculated in hours * $100/h) am I willing to pay for one lottery
ticket? A ticket which will guarantee a maximum of $?
\- I need to pay my rent, insurance, food, student debts and save, or I’ll be
in trouble soon.
\- I have a limited number of heartbeats, a limited amount of cognitive
resources per day.
\- I am asking a question on a public forum about this situation. This
automatically classifies it as a non-“hell yes!” decision.
\- I would prefer a different arrangement but the founders are not open to
what I really want. How do I feel about a career of compromise?
~~~
gfenny
Good points, thanks for your insight
------
codegeek
"still working on prototype, no sales or funding yet"
If you want to join as an employee, then they need to pay you a decent salary.
Even if a bit lower than market, you could consider if you really like the
idea which could totally fail. But do not join as an employee but no salary
(it could even be illegal in the United States but I am not sure which country
you are in).
If they cannot afford to pay you a salary right now, then you must be a co-
founder because they are still in prototyping stage. You need to get a
significant chunk of equity (I would argue it should be closer to equal
share).
Remember in either case, this product could go nowhere and you could end up
with nothing. But if the risk is worth it to you, then make sure you are
protecting yourself properly.
------
dabockster
> first employee
> only equity being offered
> no sales or funding
They want free labor. Don't do it.
~~~
gfenny
We know each other, I trust the vision is long term and theyd compensate me
with some equity and a good salary whenever they can afford it
~~~
mindvirus
If you're not getting paid, and you're only getting employee equity, you're
getting screwed. They might not be able to afford the salary now, but they can
definitely afford the equity - it's just a number on some paper, especially
before investors are involved.
Part of the reason that founders get a lot of equity is to offset the cost of
not getting paid for the early years of starting the company, and being below
market rates afterward. If you're getting paid, then sure, getting less equity
makes sense - in two years, if it goes belly up, you have two years of salary,
they have nothing.
Whatever you choose, get everything in writing first. Even best friends can
become enemies when there's money and verbal agreements involved.
------
siegel
Do you actually know how many shares the founders have received? And how does
that compare to what you are being offered?
There is no standard definition of "founder" or "co-founder." They could offer
you half of what they are getting and refer to you as a "founder." I assume
that wouldn't solve your concerns.
I'd put the title aside and think about what you are actually looking for from
this experience. It goes without saying that you should be getting a very
significant piece of equity if they expect you to work for free. You are
taking a huge risk. But I get the impression there is something else about the
"founder" designation that is meaningful to you. What is it?
------
gus_massa
Are _you_ "still working on prototype" or _they_ are "still working on
prototype"?
Are they paying you now? Are they going to pay you now in hard green cash that
you can use in the grocery to buy bananas? (Not IOU, not equity, not an
internal ICO, real dollars.)
Also, for YC a founder must have at least a 10% of equity. It's not an
official definition, but it is a rule that they use.
~~~
gfenny
They. Theyve been working on it for a few months and have put some money into
it. I know they want me on the team as they believe in me, and theyd be
willing to compensate me financially as soon as they can afford to
For reference, how much equity should I ask for in case of being first
employee? Note, the idea is that id be in charge of sales, eventually into a
COO position
~~~
DoreenMichele
_Theyve been working on it for a few months and have put some money into it. I
know they want me on the team as they believe in me, and theyd be willing to
compensate me financially as soon as they can afford to_
I would not take this deal. I would tell them "Either, I am a co-founder, and
get risks and rewards like a co-founder, or I am an employee and I get paid
like one. You can't have it both ways."
They are working for free because they hope to get rich. They want you to work
for free in hopes that, someday, you get a salary and they get rich. I would
absolutely not be okay with that.
------
justherefortart
How are you going to join as an employee if they can't even pay you?
You remind me of my friends with little to no actual relevant experience.
I'd get a job that has sales and funding. I've done 8 startups as a point of
reference, to varying levels of success/failure.
------
notahacker
Decide whether the hourly rate offered is good enough to make up for not
having cofounder level of equity and influence.
If it isn't, work on something else.
~~~
gfenny
Thanks, good point
------
taf2
Already sounds like a bad situation.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Gala Dalí’s Life Wasn’t Quite Surreal, but It Was Pretty Strange - drjohnson
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/arts/design/gala-salvador-dali-exhibition.html
======
rmason
I've been a fan of Dali since I was a boy. You can't study him without owing a
huge debt to Gala. Without her promotional efforts on behalf of his career he
might have only been really discovered after his death.
I really believe that a thousand years from now people will still be admiring
and debating Dali's art.
------
rmason
One more thing on Dali if you're ever in the Tampa area be sure to visit the
Dali museum. I've been there four times and this winter I'm going to make it
five!
[https://thedali.org/](https://thedali.org/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Capitalism vs. Democracy - flurpitude
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/29/opinion/capitalism-vs-democracy.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=1
======
pedalpete
What I fail to understand in many of these arguments regarding income
inequality, is why inequality matters?
Personally, I think the argument shouldn't be focused on how much the top 1%
have, but rather on how well (or currently not well) the bottom 20% are
living. If everybody has effective health care, abundant availability of
healthy food, access to knowledge and the ability to be a productive member of
society who doesn't have to work more than 40 hours a week in order to
struggle to survive, who cares if the top guy earns 10000x more.
Do we need to demonize the top 1% in order to motivate us to help the bottom
20-50%?
------
ergoproxy
This NYTimes article is behind a paywall. When I click on it, I get shaken
down for money, with the following message: "Thank you for visiting
NYTimes.com We hope you’ve enjoyed your 10 free articles this month." Then it
tells me I need to pay between $3.75 and $8.75 per week to continue.
Since I'm in the bottom 20%, I can't afford this stomm! If I want to read this
article, educate myself about income inequality, and become a more informed
voter, then I need sacrifice something, like food. But if I were in the top
1%, I wouldn't need to think twice about subscribing.
The first sentence of this op-ed is obscured but readable. I can see its about
the work of a french academic named Thomas Picketty, whose website is at
[http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/fr/](http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/fr/)
The facts published on his site don't seem controversial. His papers seem well
researched and reasoned, albeit very narrowly focused, highly repetitious, and
not particularly enlightening or useful.
I did not see any kind of "demonization" of the rich in his work. I routinely
see Fox news pundits demonize the poor, angry for example that 50 million
Americans get $80 billion in Food Stamps per year, while never mentioning that
Ben Bernake's QE3 prints $85 billion per month for the rich. Fed money
printing seems to be the main cause of income inequality. And anyone who wants
to reverse the growing income inequality should make abolishing the Fed their
#1 priority.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Review My App: www.shoutreel.com - ammaryousuf
www.shoutreel.com
This is a microforum application that makes it super simple and easy to start a forum about any topic. No users accounts are required to do free shouting, just a one-time captcha. Forums are called Reels and you have to login to create one.<p>We are still working on it so please be patient with the UI and some of the organization of the content. We have many more features and UI improvements coming out in the next month.
======
ammaryousuf
We tried to make this app very flexible so that users could use it for many
different things. For example: \- Students working on a project together \-
Families sharing messages \- Companies getting feedback from users \- Single
users using it to store thoughts and to-dos \- etc etc
*Next week we are rolling out the ability to make reel private.
------
tonyvt2005
Clickable link: <http://shoutreel.com>
~~~
ammaryousuf
thanks tony, i thought the form would automatically create the link for me.
ShoutReel creates the link automatically! :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Heptio Contour – An ENVOY powered ingress controller - lazypower
https://github.com/heptio/contour
======
tsakas123
Thank you lazypower and Heptio for Contour. Here is how to get the Contour on
Canonical Distribution of Kubernetes. [https://medium.com/@ktsakalozos/heptio-
contour-on-the-canoni...](https://medium.com/@ktsakalozos/heptio-contour-on-
the-canonical-distribution-of-kubernetes-8977b2ac7736)
Keep up the good work.
------
sytse
Considering that both use Envoy as a proxy, is Contour an alternative to Istio
[https://istio.io/](https://istio.io/) ?
~~~
meddlepal
Istio is for building a service mesh inside your network of microservices.
This is about the front facing ingress to get into your services from the
internet. It's closer to Ambassador
([https://getambassador.io](https://getambassador.io))
~~~
sytse
Thanks, I tried to describe the different categories in our scope
[https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-
com/commit/f48d5d8a...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-
com/commit/f48d5d8a096d321aafbbd31d0fca1ec0ea6ba94b)
------
AaronFriel
Why would I use this over the batters included Nginx Ingress controller?
No SSL/TLS termination should be a deal breaker right off.
------
pjc50
Initially thought this might be something to do with
[https://www.ingress.com/](https://www.ingress.com/) and wondered how it could
be played with a controller ...
------
lallysingh
When linking to GitHub, please link to the readme. Without knowing anything
about the project, that's what we'll read first, and the additional click
needed in mobile is a waste.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What matters more than your talents: Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon.com - sandeshkumard
http://sandeshkumar.com/2011/04/03/what-matters-more-than-your-talents-jeff-bezos-founder-of-amazon-com/
======
hunterjrj
A small note taken from this great article: Bezos started Amazon when he was
30. A nice reminder that you don't have to be in your early 20s to do a
software startup!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Designing the Windows 8 file name collision experience - recoiledsnake
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/26/designing-the-windows-8-file-name-collision-experience.aspx
======
benaston
Frankly this is a good example of over-engineering what should be a non-
problem. In the vast majority of cases the option I want is "keep both" - this
reduces the chance of data loss to zero and enables me to get on with
something that is more important to me at that moment (and use my excellent
human brain to delete one of the conflicted files later). As soon as the UX
designers attempt to do anything else the UI becomes very complicated, very
quickly (as shown here).
One final point - from the linked article it would appear that the Windows UX
designers remain addicted to modal dialogs which are, IMO, the antithesis of a
productive UI.
------
qntm
Windows 7 was the first operating system I used which actually got this right.
The options present, like "keep the second file, but rename it" and "do the
same thing for all the rest", were options that I actually wanted to use and
which were actually like meaningful, unlike the ambiguous and useless buttons
such as "skip" and "ignore all" which came before.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Launch HN: We.fo – Smart landing pages for any podcast - christianholman
https://we.fo/?ref=hackernews
======
mmili
Most landing pages that I've gone to for podcasts are rather dated and not
aesthetically pleasing. This seems to kind of remove that for me. Wondering
what people with actual podcasts think though.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you license music for web only playback? - jfornear
As expected, Lala shut down today.<p>I already miss streaming entire albums on Lala for free (for the first time). My Tuesday morning ritual for the longest time has been to listen to new albums on Lala before deciding whether or not to buy.<p>What would it take to bring just that feature (1x free album stream) back? Would that model even be sustainable? How do you license music for web only playback and what would the costs associated with it be? Will iTunes put out an embeddable player like Lala's?<p>(I've been working on a music related side project and I thought HNers might be interested in this void the Apple/Lala deal left behind.)
======
what
<http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/> and <http://bmi.com/licensing/website/> or
negotiate with the labels? I think.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What font do you use while programming? - navd
======
Tiksi
I use Tamsyn (6x12 on lower res screens, 7x14 on 4k monitors),
[http://www.fial.com/~scott/tamsyn-font/](http://www.fial.com/~scott/tamsyn-
font/) but it's getting more and more difficult to use bitmap fonts these
days. Firefox recently dropped support for them, gtk support is hit and miss.
Where I can't use Tamsyn I use
[https://github.com/rbanffy/3270font](https://github.com/rbanffy/3270font)
I like fonts that are easily readable when small so I can get more screen
realestate, and bitmaps are the best for that, but 3270 is pretty good as
well.
~~~
imakesnowflakes
Same here. All those fonts looked same until I found Tamsyn. If anyone reading
here want to try it, you have to use it at the exact size it is made for, or
else it will look ugly. So if you are using Tamsyn6x12 font, you can only use
it at 12px font size..or it will look ugly.
------
usaphp
I've spent so much time picking a font for my sumlimetext. The one I use and
love is Pragmata Pro:
[http://www.fsd.it/shop/fonts/pragmatapro/](http://www.fsd.it/shop/fonts/pragmatapro/)
------
achairapart
Take a look here:
[http://programmingfonts.org/](http://programmingfonts.org/)
Lately I'm in love with Office Code Pro (Dotted Zero version):
[https://github.com/nathco/Office-Code-Pro](https://github.com/nathco/Office-
Code-Pro)
~~~
isuckatcoding
Your first link seems to not work.
------
smallduck
PR#3 from
<[http://www.kreativekorp.com/software/fonts/apple2.shtml>](http://www.kreativekorp.com/software/fonts/apple2.shtml>),
with green text on a black background for maximum nostalgia. Very narrow &
effective on my laptop screen. Considering switching to Input Condensed or
Compressed though.
------
atmosx
All my computers are Macs. I use Inconsolata (version that supports Hellenic
letters by Cosmix) patched with devicons. My editor of choice is VIM on iTerm
13 pt, see sshot[1].
[1] [https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3s165lgha1ci01/vim-
sshot.png?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3s165lgha1ci01/vim-sshot.png?dl=0)
------
onion2k
Fira Code in my IDE, Menlo in my debug log (so it's the same as Chrome's
devtools console), something else in an SSH session, and whatever the default
is in Google Docs when I'm writing documentation.
------
mbrock
Fantasque Sans Mono by Jany Belluz.
[https://github.com/belluzj/fantasque-
sans](https://github.com/belluzj/fantasque-sans)
------
groundCode
Inconsolata
[http://levien.com/type/myfonts/inconsolata.html](http://levien.com/type/myfonts/inconsolata.html)
~~~
cauterized
Inconsolata is my choice too. It's legible at small sizes and has clear
distinctions between all the easy-to-confuse characters like 0 vs O, l vs I vs
1, etc.
And unlike many programmer-friendly fixed width fonts, it's also almost as
comfortable to read as a good variable-width screen font when
reading/writing/editing large blocks of text such as comments, personal notes,
READMEs, etc.
------
Asme
Input Mono Compressed from
[http://input.fontbureau.com/](http://input.fontbureau.com/) . Before, I used
Envy Code R
------
travjones
Source Code Pro
------
sratner
Input Mono with settings:
--asterisk=height
--i=serifs_round
--l=serifs_round
--zero=slash
--lineHeight=1.4
------
clishem
Monaco, with Infinality on Linux so it thinner.
------
holaboyperu
Fira Code
~~~
navd
Likewise
------
max_
Lucida Console
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
RSS Is Dying, and You Should Be Very Worried - sant0sk1
http://camendesign.com/blog/rss_is_dying
======
angrycoder
I have used RSS for years now. I check google reader about as often as I check
hacker news. I start my morning off with a cup of coffee while I read my feeds
using Reeder on the iphone or ipad.
Not once have I used any of the RSS features of a browser. I really don't see
the point. I guess google doesn't either.
~~~
Sindisil
Sadly, some blogs have begun to rely on RSS functionality in the browser, and
don't place an RSS link visibly on the page. That makes it rather difficult to
subscribe.
~~~
thebooktocome
Most of the time you can copy the site's URL into Google Reader and it will
try to find the proper RSS feed. It works for blogs hosted on Blogger and
Wordpress, at least; not sure how it does it.
~~~
troels
"not sure how it does it."
The same way that some browsers do it. There is a meta-tag in the page, which
describes which feed formats are available, and where to find them.
~~~
thebooktocome
I think it's a bit more than that. It's worked on sites that Safari can't find
a feed for, and I presume Safari looks for the meta-tag.
~~~
TomasSedovic
I guess Google Reader uses a database of feeds that other people subscribed
to.
For one thing, it shows you the whole history of the feed -- even when the XML
itself contains just the few most recent items.
------
stanleydrew
RSS isn't dying because browsers are deciding not to build native readers into
their UIs. It's dying because it's not terribly easy to understand for most
users. The article readily points this out.
And even for technical users like me, it isn't solving the main problem I have
which is discovering new and interesting content. Sure, once I've found some
new source of content it's nice to put its RSS feed into a reader. But really,
bookmarking is pretty good too. Yes there are clear benefits to RSS over naked
bookmarks, but the discoverability problem is still paramount.
Anyway this is kind of inconsequential to the point of whether native RSS
functionality should be included in a browser. Mozilla is right to kill this
"feature." RSS is an application-level protocol on top of HTTP, itself an
application-level protocol. Browsers are built to perform HTTP requests. In my
opinion they shouldn't do much else. A feature that displays and helps you
manage RSS content falls into the category of bloat.
~~~
sudont
> _Sure, once I've found some new source of content it's nice to put its RSS
> feed into a reader_
This is why most linkblogs are now twitter feeds. Even Andy Baio’s is still a
subset of what he twitters.
My problem in RSS feeds is importance, some sort of metric of popularity would
be good. A lot of times I’ll remove a feed for curatorial purposes to have
that site drop some major project that goes viral, and I then find out several
weeks later.
The entire concept of RSS is somewhat flawed for what happens in the real
world. It would be a lot better to create some XML encapsulation of what the
front page of the NYT does in terms of curatorial importance.
~~~
jerf
"It would be a lot better to create some XML encapsulation of what the front
page of the NYT does in terms of curatorial importance."
RSS would be a critical tool for anyone trying to solve that problem.
A lot of the complaints here are that RSS isn't what RSS isn't. OK, that's
great, but those are more "entrepreneurial opportunities" than problems with
RSS. Toss out RSS (and I assume by extension Atom and all similar friends) and
those opportunities recede, they recede a _lot_ , they don't get better. It is
what it is and it has always been designed from day one to be a foundational
infrastructure on top of which to build more things, not the Final Answer To
All Problems.
~~~
sudont
RSS is strictly linear, largely chronological.
The NYT front page, while changing day-to-day still has a layout that embodies
importance. There needs to be some sort of semantic interpretation of how
important something is other than h1’s. How do we replicate the 144pt super-
important headings while removing presentation from content?
The web was built for rationalist minds and papers, and the separation of html
elements furthers this goal, yet hampers any sort of human-ness of
communication.
RSS is great for a blog, but bad for newspapers. Check out NYT’s RSS feed.
Every article ticks in at an equal level of importance and requires the
viewer’s mental acuity to discern what’s #1. Not so with their web-front or
printed sheet.
Syndication, while essential, needs to be extended.
~~~
jerf
It also has to be some sort of project that uses RSS, not something built into
an RSS-replacement. It requires some sort of third-party interaction with your
input to determine "importance". Leave it to the New York Times and at _best_
their decisions about importance merely won't match yours; at worse they'll
simply label everything "important", sort of like the way my HR department
seems to reflexively tick that box in Outlook regardless of whether open
enrollment is about to close or somebody's parking job is a bit off and could
they please correct it?
~~~
sudont
You bring up a good point, importance is a human attribution to information,
and a lot of people are either stupid or self-important. Impartial judgement
is important, but NPR's music segments demonstrate that trending topics are
middling and not truly important.
If the curator is strictly online popularity, news sites invariably turn into
people magazine. You need some high-and-mighty news nerd to determine what's
truly important. Sure, the curator's occasionally wrong or late, but it's a
lot better than pointless water-cooler talk.
------
corin_
I can't imagine that browser button pursuading anyone who doesn't already
understand and appreciate RSS to start using it. Anyone tech-savvy enough to
see it, and start googling to find out how to use it properly has certainly
already heard of RSS.
And on the other side, anyone who does use RSS, and anyone in the future who
learns to use it, won't be put off using it by the loss of that button.
The worse statement in this article (other than the french man smoking) is:
Mozilla’s mistake here is to associate low usage with user dis-interest.
Ummm... they're correct. He claims that, just because only 3-7% use it, it
must be kept in because "what regular user wouldn’t want this feature!?"
Clearly the answer to that question is "93-97% of regular users". Touché?
~~~
ianl
3%-7% that use the button are most likely power users. It would be unwise to
disenfranchise them as they are the ones who normally advocate your software
to their friends (regular users).
~~~
lftl
In chrome at least you can install a plugin to add an RSS icon to the URL bar.
Easy enough for power users.
~~~
Groxx
That seems like it's the best option, actually. For power-users, a 3rd-party
built extension is more likely to be updated / have the options you want than
the button built into every version of the browser.
~~~
imrehg
Actually, it is a plugin made by Google, so they must know there's a need...
[https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/nlbjncdgjeocebhn...](https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/nlbjncdgjeocebhnmkbbbdekmmmcbfjd)
------
TomOfTTB
RSS is not dying.
There are very few individual users of it but there are literally millions of
web sites that use it. Almost everyone on the Internet uses a portal site of
some kind and the only way to be included on one of those sites is RSS/Atom
feeds.
So as long as people want to use RSS for a personal reader it will be there to
do it. And there will always be RSS readers because every programming
environment I can think of has a pre-built library for feed reading meaning a
programmer could whip a reader up in under an hour.
As far as the button disappearing from browsers that just makes UI sense.
Chrome Browser taught the rest of the industry that most people hate clutter
in their browser. So buttons that 93% of the users don't use are being taken
out. But they can be added back with a simple browser extension/plug-
in/whatever. So even here the people who want to use an RSS reader aren't
losing anything
(and even without an extension/plug-in/whatever any user savvy enough to be
using a reader will know how to cut and paste a url)
------
Lagged2Death
The implementation of RSS in Firefox was always an "ultra-lite" version that I
doubt will be missed by any serious RSS enthusiasts. A full-featured RSS
reader feels a lot like a mailing list, so I think it's appropriate to keep
RSS in Thunderbird rather than Firefox.
In some respects, a web-app RSS reader (like Bloglines or Google Reader) is
better. You can access your feeds from any computer, the read/unread status is
kept synchronized between PCs, and the centralized web-app arrangement makes
more efficient use of network resources. Better to have Google Reader poll a
site every 30 minutes than to have 10,000 Firefox installs each polling it
every few hours.
The only browsers I know of that ever had good in-browser RSS readers were
Opera and Seamonkey. But even in those cases, RSS was included as part of the
mail client, not shoehorned into the browsing paradigm.
~~~
nakkiel
Agreed.
I once wrote a Python script that would parse RSS feeds and write emails in a
maildir (or whatever is supported by Python); one was then able to read news
from an MUA which was comfortable (Mutt by then). I lost that script when I
did a 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda' before quitting my last job and realizing
2 minutes later that I forgot to backup many useful scripts I wrote over the
course of my year and half in that NGO.
Being a smoking Frenchman, I'm tempted to be gratuitously insulting to the
author but there's one interesting problem that could come from RSS'
disappearance from browsers: the lack of visibility may very well "destroy"
the format in the long term. Also, as the web is increasingly publicized, the
incentive to remove a format that generates traffic but may hardly generate
revenue might be high.
~~~
joeyh
The canonical one is called "rss2email"
~~~
turbodog
I'm the maintainer of the project and it's homepage is
<http://www.allthingsrss.com/rss2email/>
------
GBKS
From the user flow, RSS doesn't make much sense. Clicking an RSS button shows
you the same thing you just looked at, except without the site design and only
partial content (Safari). Currently, in Chrome, I just see a dense block of
text.
RSS is an amazing tool, but maybe we just haven't found the right UI for it
yet. Exposing it in the browser doesn't work very well and treating RSS as an
Inbox (like Google Reader) where every item needs to be marked as read is too
overwhelming. Personally, I think a social approach to RSS that puts content
and personal preferences at the fore-front would solve a lot of this.
------
patio11
_RSS saves me from having to load up 100 different sites several times a day
just to check what’s ‘new’._
Everything wrong with RSS in a nutshell: this is a problem real people don't
have.
~~~
erikpukinskis
I fully appreciate the sentiment, I hate when people build stuff people don't
need.
But I want to dig a little at this. I think the fact that most people only
have access to CNN or Time or Fox News or Cosmopolitan or Maxim or whatever...
that there is not an easy way for people to get news aggregated from 100's of
their peers and thought leaders in their affinity groups.... I think that IS a
problem people have. It may not be a problem they are aware of, but I think
the social cost of consolidated media is very high.
I think RSS, and technologies like it (Twitter, Facebook) are an important
part of the solution to that problem. RSS is obviously not very user friendly,
and I'm not sure if it will have a place at the table 10 years from now.
But the problem it solves (a standard interchange format for syndication) is
absolutely real, and it's not going away.
~~~
philwelch
Your comment reminds me of this Calvin and Hobbes strip:
[http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RbiRIw_w4rU/SNkssvl3KeI/AAAAAAAAAC...](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RbiRIw_w4rU/SNkssvl3KeI/AAAAAAAAACQ/whLxzvwCU9k/s1600-h/calvinandhobbes.png)
~~~
erikpukinskis
Maybe it's too late, but I don't quite see the connection. Regardless, I
consider Calvin to be "good company".
------
pamelafox
RSS readers may be dying (I admit that I once was a Google Reader fanatic and
now only log in time to time), but RSS/ATOM as a format for communicating
between websites is still pretty decent. I often setup an ATOM feed for the
data on whatever webapp I'm building, and usually end up using that feed to
integrate with other webapps. (And as a bonus, I can hand it out to techie
users).
I don't know, do you think that RSS readers dying will mean websites will stop
producing RSS feeds? The output seems to be built in to many systems these
days already.
------
bretpiatt
It is pretty clear why Google doesn't like RSS, it stops you from browsing the
web and that is how they get paid. As a user though I also don't like it
anymore and I'll share why...
This isn't 1970 anymore where I want to read "What's New" from a small list of
new sources. I prefer to go each day to a list of curated aggregators like HN
or what the people I follow on Twitter or saying. This is vastly superior to
RSS and this is why at least one technical user no longer uses it.
~~~
stanleydrew
"It is pretty clear why Google doesn't like RSS, it stops you from browsing
the web and that is how they get paid."
But they built and are actively maintaining Google reader. I don't think
Google dislikes RSS, rather they are hesitant to build a browser feature for
something that should really be a separate application.
~~~
wyclif
Robert Scoble says he was told (ostensibly by someone at Google) that the
Google Reader team has been largely disbanded, and that the project is no
longer maintained. He's mentioned this a couple of times on Quora, on Buzz,
and on his blog.
~~~
stanleydrew
Well I'll go one step further then and point out that Google is the creator of
PubSubHubbub (<http://code.google.com/p/pubsubhubbub/>). My point is that I
don't think Google hates users aggregating content and having it pushed to
them rather than browsing for it.
~~~
TomOfTTB
I don't disagree but in fairness it was created by 3 people one of which
worked at SixApart
~~~
stanleydrew
Thanks for the info. Before posting my comment I did some quick Googling and
couldn't find much about the history of PubSubHubbub. I did want to be sure
that I wasn't wrong about Google's involvement. Using the word "creator" with
respect to Google itself was probably a little strong.
------
petervandijck
RSS isn't dying, it's become so pervasive that it's now invisible
infrastructure.
------
jonnii
I'm glad my browser doesn't support RSS natively when other apps offer a far
greater experience. Have you tried the safari rss reader? It's awful.
As a chrome user I'm happy that it does one thing well and that's displaying
web pages. Now I'm free to use any online RSS reader I want and be able to
access my RSS feeds from anywhere.
------
ghurlman
It's hard to take the author's concern seriously, when I can't even find the
RSS link on his/her page.
~~~
kroc
_because the browser is supposed to provide the button_.
Why do you think I’m worried? I don’t want to have to clutter my site with a
button to an XML feed that nobody understands. I want the browser auto-
discovery to do the right thing and present the right interface to make RSS
worthwhile.
Turning the key in a car shouldn’t present you a diagram on how to connect the
battery. Browsers shouldn’t sit there dumbfounded when presented a piece of
RSS.
~~~
DougBTX
_Why do you think I’m worried?_
Because auto-discovery isn't working on his site either? (At least in Safari)
~~~
ugh
It is working. Safari changed the way it displays RSS feeds. You have to click
and hold on the “Reader” button to display any RSS feeds.
------
k33n
> Mozilla outright refuse to listen (33 bloody votes!)
Wow, 33 votes. They're really ignoring the masses on that one.
~~~
bzbarsky
For a bug in Mozilla's Bugzilla installation, that's high.
Of course all the high-vote bugs are special-interest-advocacy stuff like
"bring back MNG support" and "bring back gopher support" and "bring back the
RSS button"... So high vote count is actually a reliable indicator that the
bug should be wontfixed, more often than not.
------
tlianza
Curious why none of the comments, nor the original article, mentions Internet
Explorer. They've continued to add new features in this area ever since IE7.
The icon is hidden now in IE9 (as are most of the icons... less browser chrome
is fashionable) but I believe they still consider this a first-class feature.
They are still the world's most popular browser... and presumably their users
are _less_ technical, so presumably it's usage is _less_ than what Mozilla
reports, but it remains.
~~~
Groxx
> _They are still the world's most popular browser_
Because of their _history_. Because users aren't technical. Because IE is
_bundled with Windows_. And look how quickly they've been falling in use.
Methinks they won't be the most popular for much longer, which is an
_incredible_ mark against their design decisions because of how fast and how
far they've fallen from such complete domination.
~~~
tlianza
The story is about RSS dying, and the author is upset that Mozilla is removing
RSS features and Chrome never had any. Are you also arguing that IE is failing
because they still have those features (possibly a bad design decision)?
In which case, what is it we're complaining about? Browsers that have RSS
readers are bad and browsers that don't have RSS readers are bad?
~~~
Groxx
Not at all. I'm arguing that taking your design decisions from IE based on
IE's popularity is illogical when looked at in context.
------
corywilkerson
This. "Every website should not look like a NASCAR advert for every sharing
service in existence."
~~~
thwarted
That's one reason I've always thought bookmarklets were better for sharing,
not the least of which is because you don't need to wait/hope the website
operator adds support for the sharing site you are using.
------
ryanwaggoner
The replacement for RSS isn't Facebook and Twitter...it's email. People don't
understand RSS but they understand: "Enter your email address to subscribe to
updates." Hence the reason that CPM rates for email are so much higher...
------
bl4k
Users shouldn't need to know what RSS is to use it just as they don't need to
know what HTTP is to read a website or what SMTP is to send email.
The interface to using RSS has always been flawed, that is where the problem
is.
------
Groxx
> _IF RSS DIES, WE LOSE THE ABILITY TO READ IN PRIVATE_
Based on what causal chain? At best, it's an _incredible_ stretch of a
slippery slope fallacy.
~~~
codeup
Disagree. The author clearly refers to corporations like Facebook and Twitter
tracking your reading behavior.
~~~
Groxx
So run NoScript. Run in private mode. Block their cookies. Block their address
in your hosts file. You can use wget, curl, or any other cookieless
downloading tools, none of which will expose you reading The Times to
Facebook. RSS doesn't even prevent against this; it can be behind a login, it
can require cookies or not serve up info, and it can send info to Facebook
denoting you viewed article X. All of which is determined by the _server_ it's
running on, not the format of data it serves up.
Browsers are unnecessary for RSS _or tracking_ , and it's a very poor match
for browsing behaviors anyway.
~~~
codeup
Why should I have to do all that if RSS already exists? There's no reason to
accept letting this working technology die.
I agree that browsers are unnecessary for RSS though.
~~~
Groxx
Because if you're that worried about Facebook tracking your browsing habits,
accessing information via RSS will only prevent _some_ tracking. The Like
button is damn near everywhere, not just on news sites. The only way to
prevent it is to prevent your browsing tools from communicating with Facebook
_at all_ , and hope the servers you're accessing aren't doing it behind the
scenes. And/or anonymize your connection (TOR), so even that doesn't give them
anything.
The point is that paranoia (valid or not) is _not_ a reason to keep a
technology alive when that technology does not solve the problem, especially
when solutions _do_ exist. If you want a solution, _use a solution_ , not a
crippled, bundled-in-your-browser partial solution that only works under
certain circumstances / assumptions.
~~~
codeup
Are you trying to pitch RSS against privacy enhancing technologies such as
NoScript, TOR, etc.? The point is rather that more privacy is a neat side
effect of RSS, not its primary purpose.
The primary purpose of RSS - aggregation of content -- works very well,
irrespective of bad UI decisions which have nothing to do with RSS itself. And
when you pull a full text RSS feed, you're probably far away from "Like"
buttons and the like while reading content.
~~~
Groxx
RSS is an exchange format, nothing more. Don't conflate it with _some_
historical transmission methods, nor ignore cases where it's behind a paywall,
nor embedded tracking images (since nearly any reader will allow images).
Privacy has _nothing_ to do with RSS. Some feeds I subscribe to have
JavaScript _and_ Flash - where's the privacy there? Some are behind paywalls -
I'm identified by logging in, and even more so by providing payment info to be
_able_ to log in.
Thus, by losing RSS, we would lose _zero_ ability to read privately. It's only
viewed as being without all the privacy-sniffing bells and whistles because
_most_ providers don't do so. RSS can lose all its currently-common privacy
attributes while still being RSS. We should be worried about the loss of
_privacy_ online, which is rampant, not the loss of RSS (if it does die). And
RSS is a particularly bad flagpole to gather around; anyone up in arms about
it is much more likely to be up in arms about privacy than the reverse.
------
zoul
RSS is dying because browser vendors do not want to implement or maintain
integrated RSS readers? That does not sound very convincing.
~~~
kroc
RSS aggregators are used by the elite few. When websites start deciding to use
Twitter and Facebook instead of RSS because it’s faster and gives them better
features, and regular users understand it better, then there will be
complaints.
------
beej71
RSS is really cheap to set up compared to the cost of an entire site, and for
news sites, it makes economic sense to add a feed on the off-chance that you
might get 0.1% more readers.
The technology that is the RSS reader is not the driver of RSS. The feed is
what drives it. NYT is putting up a feed even if is has zero browser support,
I'll bet.
Until it's not worth the practically-zero cost of setting up a feed, there
will be piles of feeds out there. Publishers will use anything they can to get
more eyeballs, and feeds like RSS fit perfectly into that strategy.
I use RSS all the time. That's how I got to this article. And I'm not worried
about it one bit.
------
bendauphinee
RSS is not dying. It's just not based in the browser, and I'm fine with that.
I use an RSS aggregation program, and if I really wanted to, there is open
source software available to build and host my own RSS portal.
------
smcl
"It gives less of a shite than a French man smoking a cigarette in public"
Um...what?
~~~
stanleydrew
Really HN? We're upvoting this? No offense to the commenter, but we can do
better.
~~~
mechanical_fish
I don't think so, actually. I'd be hard put to make that comment's point any
more elegantly.
In person, the right response to the original sentence would be a polite
cough, followed by a brief but significant silence, followed by a slight but
detectable face-saving change of subject. We can't do those things on the web,
but in this case "um... what?" is an artful alternative.
~~~
stanleydrew
I question the comment's usefulness to this discussion, not the elegance with
which it was made (although I think I disagree on that as well).
The comment, to me, is a distraction. Not purposeful I'm sure, but it's had
that effect. The fact that the community would vote it up to the point where
it might be the first comment someone reads when seeing this thread is
disappointing.
~~~
smcl
> The comment, to me, is a distraction
Perhaps a little reflection is in order, you were originally unhappy that the
comment I made might have distracted from, or derailed, any possible
discussion. Then, rather than turning the other cheek, you opted to kick off a
discussion which has ironically created a genuine distraction.
update: This reply was a little bit cheeky and I subsequently sent stanleydrew
an email to apologise.
~~~
stanleydrew
The irony is not lost on me, certainly. I think this is the first time I've
ever called out a comment as inappropriate in my nearly two years of active HN
participation. Usually I read comments like this, downvote and flag, and then
move on.
My intention was not to start a discussion. My intention was to make people
think before upvoting, and to make people think before they consider posting a
similar comment in the future. Hopefully, despite derailing the larger thread
a bit, I achieved that goal.
I'm happy to take this discussion offline though, in order to prevent further
derailment. My email is in my profile.
------
gregory80
just b/c rss is dying, thank god too, doesn't mean syndication is dying.
already ideas like pubsubhubbub have provided realtime syndication in a more
compact format.
The web is just moving to realtime and ingesting a big long text file and
determining deltas sucked. For that matter, XML as a data transport vehicle
should end in favor of more compact and type friendly solutions like JSON.
Don't be so alarmist that a crappy tech is being phased out. Now, where's my
Tandy 1000.
------
shaver
What would an RSS reader good enough for Kroc's grandmother and 419,999,999
other Firefox users look like? I would be genuinely interested in his designs
for one. Of the many different RSS reader add-ons I've tried for Firefox, for
example, there haven't been any that made me say "we've gotta put this in
Firefox, let's delay $otherwork instead". If we had an energetic contributor
like Kroc, though, it's quite possible that we could end up in a great place.
I'm not trying to say "patches talk, chump", though of course they _do_ speak
quite compellingly. I'm trying to indicate that via open projects like Mozilla
technical people can have agency beyond voting in bugzilla (!) or a letter-
writing campaign.
It'll be interesting to test Kroc's thesis, though: if he's right that RSS
will be harmed a lot by Firefox removing the RSS icon, then hits to the RSS
stream from Firefox UAs should change trend-line between 3.6.x and 4. I look
forward to such a follow-up, it would be interesting data!
~~~
dlsspy
I think it'd look like it looks for many of us.
I go to a web site and see a little orange button that I can click and it will
add this web site flipbook.
Yay, now I can read the web site like a magazine with consistent and readable
formatting and not have to remember what that site was I wanted to go back and
look at the next time they posted something.
------
Create
I think it is plain and simply facebook and twitter which are killing RSS.
Most normal people have heard about twitter and facebook and have no clue
about the cryptic acronym RSS. Which, by-the-way requires a technical degree
to understand, and to use (should it rather be v1 v2 or atom? does my pc
support the best option?). Is it really a bookmark? Or an inbox? Or a
notification? Now one should go through hidden features and install new apps.
No sane person would set this up as opposed to a single click in a browser to
a twitter feed or the push of a like button.
Like webmail displaced most "normal" people's imap/smtp (with all the firewall
misery). Google groups/forums displaced NNTP.
I also feel sad, because RSS was free, while twitter and facebook are careless
computing.
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-
os-richard-stallman-warning?INTCMP=SRCH)
------
mmphosis
Okay, I haven't really used RSS before. I'm diving in. In Safari Version 5.0.3
(6533.19.4), I view all of the RSS Feeds by choosing the following (buried)
menu item:
Bookmarks > Bookmarks Bar > View All RSS Articles
I can't find a "View All RSS Articles" button. By default, I hide the
"Bookmarks Bar" toolbar (because I want as much vertical screen real estate as
I can get.) The "View All RSS Articles" item does not appear in the "Bookmarks
Bar" toolbar when I make this toolbar visible.
I am looking into the NetNewsWire app for Mac.
<http://netnewswireapp.com/mac/>
No RSS feed for Wikipedia portal:Current events?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events>
Hacker News RSS is broken? <http://news.ycombinator.com/rss>
~~~
jschuur
Try this improved full text HN feed:
[http://preona.net/2010/12/hackernews-full-feed-for-your-
read...](http://preona.net/2010/12/hackernews-full-feed-for-your-reading-
pleasure/)
------
draebek
Lack of a browser button doesn't put me off using RSS, as many have pointed
out. There are browser extensions and GreaseMonkey scripts for me to add feeds
to Google Reader.
I'd be more concerned that RSS is dying because many content providers--from
big media to bloggers--seem to prefer to only show me a short excerpt, or even
a title in their RSS feeds. I don't want to leave Google Reader to read your
articles! When I have to open every single RSS item's link (in a new tab) from
Reader, that either discourages me from visiting your site... or discourages
me from using RSS, as it adds little to no value, and indeed just introduces
frustration.
The other reason I avoid RSS is for sites like HN and Reddit, where the order
of links, their scores, and their ages are important. Maybe RSS should be
updatable (which may be what PubSubHubbub is designed for?).
------
lwhi
RSS is not dying! One of the traditional applications for RSS (a browser-based
RSS feed-reader) is becoming obsoleted because most browsers aren't
particularly good at managing feeds.
I can understand why the benefits of RSS aren't more widely understood by the
general public; the technology makes use of an abbreviation (an abbreviation
that isn't actually much more comprehensible when its spelt out).
RSS is a service, used by applications to make content portable. It's not a
final solution, it's a tool that can be integrated into a number of different
applications. It's quite likely that many of the applications it could be used
for haven't been created yet.
A slightly ridiculous article.
------
doorty
I frankly never got into RSS until I started using RockMelt about a month ago.
Now I use it all the time to tell me when there are new Hacker News post, etc.
But unfortunately the only clickable link for the Hacker News RSS takes me to
the story, which is often an external link. If I want to see the "discuss" of
the story I have to manually go the website and find the post and click the
discuss link. Perhaps RSS needs a more robust protocol that wouldn't require
others to make their own API. Then I think browsers like Rock Melt might bring
this new kind of RSS to the masses.
~~~
gnosis
The reader I use, newsbeuter, always shows two links: the article link, and
the discussions link.
<http://www.newsbeuter.org>
You might also be interested in trying these alternate HN feeds:
http://andrewtrusty.appspot.com/readability/feed?url=http://news.ycombinator.com/rss
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/HackerNewsFullFeed>
------
Kilimanjaro
Change the RSS button for a 'Follow' button.
------
geoffw8
RSS is the pipe, its not a solution. Your average joe doesn't "know" what
TCP/IP is and frankly its the same for RSS. Something needs to sit at either
end and actually make use of the RSS "pipe".
------
agavin
RSS brings me 90% of my outside information. And by doing it with programs
like Reeder that use Google Reader to sync the feeds and what's been read
allow me to do it on 3 computers, an iphone, and an ipad without ever seeing
the same junk twice
But, it does require some computer savvy to setup and operate. You need
programs, you need to sometimes figure out your feed URL's. Good reader has a
really weird and lousy interface.
As a computer guy I don't care, but I rarely recommend it to even medium tech
savvy friends because I don't see them dealing.
------
bsg75
RSS is a tool for technologists. The average user will not find it attractive
enough, so RSS will always be used by the minority. This does not necessarily
make it a dying technology however.
------
bambax
An interesting point of this post is that Twitter is effectively about to
replace RSS, and that in order to use Twitter one has to have an account with
it and "follow" such and such.
But is this really true? Wouldn't it be possible to build an (authorized)
interface to Twitter that would serve search results according to
topics/keywords without actually creating an account with Twitter?
Something along the lines of
twitfeed.com/topics?q=topic1+topic2+topic3
I'm sure this already exists somehow?
~~~
rjvir
Kind of:
[http://twitter.com/search?q=node.js%20OR%20from:reddit%20OR%...](http://twitter.com/search?q=node.js%20OR%20from:reddit%20OR%20from:hackernewsbot)
This searches all posts that contain "node.js", are from reddit, or are from
hackernewsbot. You can even get an RSS feed for it, at
[http://search.twitter.com/search?q=node.js%20OR%20from:reddi...](http://search.twitter.com/search?q=node.js%20OR%20from:reddit%20OR%20from:hackernewsbot&format=rss)
------
nycticorax
I use Google Reader, because I want to know when there's new stuff on certain
sites without visiting them all, but I don't like it that much. I prefer to
read the stories on the web site, with its "native" formatting and whatnot. Is
there a tool in any of the common browsers that will highlight a bookmark (or
something like that) when there's new content on the site? I think I'd greatly
prefer that to the whole business of using a feed reader. Am I the only one?
------
tel
Recently Flipboard added a Google Reader section. I've started using this and
never turned back. It solves perfectly pretty much every problem with RSS via
attractive presentation, quick access to full content, social connectivity,
and getting rid of the "inbox feel".
Like a few others here, I look at RSS in the morning. As it turns out, what I
really wanted was a sort of newspaper/magazine format. Flipboard delivers that
perfectly.
------
zzzeek
RSS is primarily used by aggregation widgets and sites as a server-to-server
protocol for retrieving lists of links from blogs and news sites, and I see no
evidence offered that anything is changing in that regard.
As far as people actually using their "RSS" buttons to read websites, I've
actually never heard of anyone doing that. The author appears to misunderstand
the primary rationale of modern RSS.
------
kinnth0
Can't we just use Google reader and be done with it?
------
omaranto
I won't miss the RSS browser button: I hardly ever use it! While I read many
RSS feeds I almost never subscribe to them (which is what I've used the button
for). The average number of times I've subscribed to a feed I read is
extremely close to 1, and the average number of times I've subscribed to each
existing feed in the world is extremely close to 0.
------
stan_d
I'd be interested to know the number of people using Google Reader as their
primary tool to read stuff from the web. I'm sure the numbers would skew
heavily towards the tech/geek crowd. But I have no idea how popular it is.
------
macco
RSS is dying only if Bloggers don't support it anymore. But I can't see that.
------
EGreg
This is ridiculous. First of all what about the ATOM format? I don't think
it's dying.
Anyway, why not simply have an RSS plugin / extension as some have suggested?
You can do this in all the browsers.
------
antidaily
Most of what I need to read shows up on HN or Reddit or Twitter. I know that
sounds incredibly lazy, but I don't have time to mark 233 Lifehacker posts as
read every week.
------
hsmyers
I only indirectly depend on browser based RSS feeds as I use Google Reader.
Which does precisely what I want it to and is available without regard to
browser.
------
asadotzler
The only problem with Kroc's rant is that RSS auto discovery and UI wasn't
removed from Firefox. It was moved from the addressbar to the Bookmarks menu.
------
eitan
I find myself more & more use blekko to replace my RSS feeds, maybe this is
the future of feeds.
But then again maybe blekko doesn't have a future....
------
dennyferra
I want to read my RSS feeds like a newspaper. I think formatting is really the
issue. I don't necessarily want a list of links.
------
yycom
Why should this particular <link> incantation receive special treatment over
others?
~~~
nakkiel
How are other <link> elements not specially treated?
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://ycombinator.com/news.css">
<link rel="shortcut icon" href="http://ycombinator.com/favicon.ico">
Also, this will make a good reading:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html#h-12.3>
_"Although LINK has no content, it conveys relationship information that may
be rendered by user agents in a variety of ways (e.g., a tool-bar with a drop-
down menu of links)."_
~~~
kroc
Well put; what I believe in is that user agents should do their absolute best
to make the most sense of what information is available to it in the context
of the UI paradigm of the user agent. i.e. there is not enough screen space on
phones for every website to fit an RSS icon; the browser should do the best
thing that befits its UI and help minimise the efforts of the user to get the
information they want. RSS can massively help with that.
Imagine for example that on the Chrome home page, where sites you visit often
appear, Chrome also was following the RSS of these sites in the background,
and listing new news items for those sites on the home page, all without you
having to do anything.
There is infinite possibility here for browser vendors to make browsing
quicker, easier and more intelligent and RSS is a key part of that. The
browser vendors are not interested in exploring this avenue and as such
everybody is stuck doing the same stupid routine every single day. This is
dumb! Our computers should be smarter than this!
~~~
nakkiel
_Imagine for example that on the Chrome home page, where sites you visit often
appear, Chrome also was following the RSS of these sites in the background,
and listing new news items for those sites on the home page, all without you
having to do anything._
That's a hell of a good idea actually. Having a count of items that popped on
a website since your last visit would be a really useful information.
------
gurraman
I have -- without giving it much thought -- stopped using RSS. Many friends
have done the same. Now browsers seem to be dropping support. Maybe this is
proof that RSS/Atom wasn't the panacea we thought it was. Maybe it is actually
time for RSS to die?
------
axod
RSS never really caught on beyond a geek crowd. I've never used it.
~~~
dlsspy
I had a lot of TiVo conversations like this ten or eleven years ago. Lots of
people who never used the technology would tell me why it didn't make sense to
them.
~~~
axod
Is TiVo still big in the US? (It doesn't exist in the UK). We have various
hard disk based recorders, and sky plus etc
~~~
dlsspy
TiVo itself isn't huge, but pretty much everyone has a DVR these days.
I just use that as an example because 10-11 years ago nobody knew what it was,
but they knew they didn't need it... until they tried it.
~~~
axod
But RSS is like 10-15 years old. How long until it takes off?
------
stretchwithme
Cobol's been dying too and I'm not concerned about that either.
------
zandorg
I think Dave Winer, basically inventor of RSS, would disagree.
~~~
markg
Dave Winer did not invent RSS. You might want to know your history before
spouting such nonsense.
------
peterbotond
many users use webkit and write a program that evaluates, stores the content
effectively building a personal rss.
moreover.com has many precompiled rss feeds for various subjects.
------
emef
If there was really enough demand for RSS, it wouldn't die.
~~~
kroc
How can there be demand if nobody is making it easy to use?
~~~
emef
It seems like the incentive is missing. Browser developers have to prioritize
what users use and what they know how to use. The author made the point that
very few people even know what RSS is, and I think it's the content
deliverers' responsibility to make users aware of that feature; there's only
so much a browser can do to help with that.
------
ThePinion
I just want you to know years ago I vowed to use RSS in all of my websites for
the rest of my life. I would hate an Internet without RSS feeds (and Google
Reader!)
------
mcnemesis
am probably contributing late, but i have recently worked on something that
might solve this "rss hunger" or at least provide a better alternative
eventually. am calling my creation "razor" and it runs right in the brwser, is
totally free, doesn't sacrifice privacy to corporations, is customizable by
the user (only knowledge of regular expressions required - in case one wants
to craft their own feeds)
i've developed my solution as a firefox addon, and you can download it from
here -- <http://fixx.yolasite.com/razor>
i'd never used rss feeds before (probably wouldn't have invented razor then?),
but razor is different and to me is more powerful!
i use razor to check newest stuff from hacker_news using the following saved
razor-expression:
[http://news.ycombinator.com/newest)))<a](http://news.ycombinator.com/newest\)\)\)<a)
href=".+">. _< /a>%%%>[^<]_<%%%[^>]. _[^ <]((([0-9]+._ago---[0-9]+.
_point---\s_ by\s _\---^[0-9]_ \\.$---^\s _\\(._ \\)\s _$---^[0-9]+[
]comment._ \s _$---^\w_ $---^\s _[\|\\[]\s_ $---^Feature Requests$---^Y
Combinator$---^Hacker News$---^(News\s _)_ $
It might look "geeky" and intimidating, but check the above razor link (it has
docs too) and you'll see why this solution is promising.
nice feeds hacking!
~~~
jerf
Thank you for demonstrating so clearly why we need RSS.
If you don't get it yet, check back in two years. You'll be able to tell us
all about why that doesn't scale and can't work and RSS is a lot better. You
may not believe me yet, but I can wait.
~~~
mcnemesis
well help by clarifying why. as i said, this might not be the best, but
probably the difference between this and RSS is that razor isn't solely meant
to create information feeds, it is a quicker and more succinct way of scraping
the web for arbitrary information.
it solves the problem of having to build a new scraper tool every time you
have some site you want to programatically pick something from.
maybe i didn't clarify its purpose well, or i gave the wrong examples? imagine
using it to track malformed tags in web pages of your choice in real-time,
this is another way it could be used.
------
u48998
If Mozilla is getting rid of it and if Chrome doesn't have it, than that's
just proof enough that big companies are conspiring against RSS. My fingers
crossed for the Adblocker.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Dead is WebOS? - spicerunner
http://www.kiwiluv.com/techblog/?p=1297
New HP devices are coming out and folks are migrating to HTML/CSS/Javascript frameworks, which was always the case for WebOS. Does it have a chance for third place in the smartphone market after it's precipitous downfall?
======
modernerd
I was given a free Pre2 by Palm's Developer Relations Team as a development
device. After a week with the thing, I fully expected to be clawing at my
iPhone, performing 40 Hail Steves, and vowing never to stray again.
Instead, I haven't touched the iPhone for eight weeks. WebOS is a delight, and
I wish I'd had the guts to try it sooner; not only is the OS better thought
out in many ways (multi tasking, global app menus, discreet notifications, OTA
system updates, polished app switching, 'just type' launcher, the gesture
area, and more) but the Enyo development kit has been easy to pick up, and
hardware touches -- like the Touchstone charging dock -- make the device a joy
to live with.
I'm currently porting an iOS app to WebOS, and will be launching future apps
on both platforms, even though the WebOS userbase falls short of iOS and
Android's reach. In short, I feel really positive about WebOS, and hope HP's
acquisition of Palm will be the kick it needs to find the success it deserves.
~~~
palish
How did you get a free Pre 2?
I've been chomping at the bit to develop for anything besides my iPhone. I
just can't afford any new phone right now.
~~~
Xuzz
I got one from this offer too. They announced it on their blog [1] a few
months back, I'm not sure if it's still open, but there's definitely no harm
in trying.
[1]: [http://pdnblog.palm.com/2011/02/mojo-and-enyo-two-great-
oppo...](http://pdnblog.palm.com/2011/02/mojo-and-enyo-two-great-
opportunities/)
------
eekfuh
I've developed a fairly well known (to the webos community) application. I had
a top 10 app in Palm's million dollar contest. I've been on their print and
web promotional tools and featured several times in their app catalog... yet I
feel and felt that HP and Palm both have dropped the ball when it has come to
developing for WebOS. They have terrible, poorly documented API's.
I think its all fine and dandy that they have semi-rewarded me with some free
advertising, but as a developer, I really only care about writing a killer app
and if there is no way to do certain things, or making me write a C++ browser
extension just to properly cURL data, well its just not worth my time.
Being able to phonegap applications will help their count, but most developers
know, those apps never feel purely native and the apps typically are extremely
low powered, unintelligent apps.
I think that accounting for all that might be more of a recipe for disaster.
Poor usability and a lack of strong apps, except for the occasional game
(written in C++ as a browser plugin so they can opengl).
~~~
piranha
So if writing a browser extension in C++ is hard, then what about writing
whole application in Objective C instead of writing in JS? I'm genuinely
interested what do you consider easier platform to develop, since I've just
tried out Enyo and I really like it.
~~~
eekfuh
It's not really about the language, it was more about the API's available. I
write iPhone apps also and the frameworks that Apple has developed are far
superior and far more reaching than anything Palm/HP has done.
Their API's available to the browser extensions are basically just opengl
related.
------
JoelSutherland
I had a Pre for two years, just got the Nexus S and my wife has an iPhone 4.
Without question, the biggest UX differences between the platforms are:
1\. General responsiveness (iPhone leads)
2\. Notifications (iPhone trails dramatically)
3\. Web Page as a 1st class OS object. (WebOS is the only one that does this)
This third point is NEVER discussed. With Android and iOS, you have to go to
the browser and then jump to a particular tab. When multi-tasking, this forces
you to do more clicks through two different mental models. In WebOS,
everything is a card. When you're trying to pull ESPN back up, you seek ESPN,
not 'browser'.
Given google's position on the web, I am just surprised they haven't done a
better job of this. It makes sense that Apple is making webpages 2nd class
citizens, they want a 30% cut.
~~~
jonah
In WebOS, everything is a card. When you're trying to pull ESPN back up, you seek ESPN, not 'browser'.
That I like. It harkens back to the days of non-tabbed browsers on the
desktop. But while the desktop is conducive to working with many tabs
successfully (UX- and hardware-wise) on mobile, it makes a lot more sense to
have a single level of windowing rather than the nesting a tabbed browser
gives you.
~~~
jdub
... but not when you have deliciously usable and tactile "cards". :-)
~~~
jonah
Right. And by promoting each "tab" to its own "card" at the same level as each
other "app" you benefit from that.
~~~
jdub
Plus in webOS 2.x, stacks reduce the cognitive load of having too many
(seemingly) unrelated cards.
------
fuzionmonkey
Some things about WebOS are absolutely fantastic. My first smartphone was a
Pre Plus when it came out on Verizon for like $40.
The software was pretty great. The multitasking was perfect, Synergy was
awesome. It wasn't quite as polished in some areas as iOS, but some things
were also drastically superior. Also the inductive charging was awesome as
well.
I got an iPhone on Verizon when it came out, and I really miss the
multitasking. But what I don't miss is the hardware.
My Pre was literally starting to fall apart. It was all cheap, flimsy plastic,
not durable at all. The difference in build quality of the iPhone was
astonishing. And dramatic noticeable speed improvement.
WebOS was crippled by its horrible hardware. The software was competitive,
even the best at times, but the Pre was just terrible hardware. It didn't have
very fast specs, and the phone itself wasn't durable or high quality.
~~~
mjs
Agreed, webOS suffers from some small-ish fit and finish problems, and much
larger marketing and (lack of) application problems.
webOS 1.0 did do a lot of wacky/strange things that were annoying, though not
bad enough for the phone to be useless. As well as the hardware problems,
you'd get stuff like like the alarm going off a minute before it was supposed
to (going by the phone's own time display). It would also repeatedly tell you
every few minutes that it was unable to send an email message when no network
was available.
They're reduced the number of annoyances in webOS 2.0, though, so I am hopeful
for the Pre 3. (It also now has close to acceptable performance, instead of
completely unacceptable performance.)
The marketing and app problems are much more difficult to solve; I'm not sure
what they can do there. Throwing money at it, maybe...
------
shaggy
Anyone who takes an objective look at iOS vs. Android vs. webOS will see that
webOS is the technologically superior platform. The UI is fantastic and smooth
and many of other current mobile platforms are starting to "borrow" from it.
The playbook, android and even iOS to a certain extent. If HP markets the
hardware and software correctly and they do a good job of attracting quality
developers it will be a force.
~~~
wvenable
> current mobile platforms are starting to "borrow" from it
The question is, will the other mobile platforms borrow from it fast enough to
make it totally irrelevant.
------
tolmasky
"That fragmentation is driving developers to embrace frameworks such as
PhoneGap, which WebOS has wholeheartedly adopted. "
Honest question: _really?_ Is anyone actually using this stuff in a serious
way? I ask because I use only iOS basically so I may genuinely be missing this
revolution that is taking place, but at least on iOS I have never downloaded
an app that was phonegap, nor do I think any significant charting apps use it.
Is it widely used for custom built apps or something? Or used a lot in
android? Or is it actually not being used a lot?
~~~
strmpnk
I've seen quite a few apps written in phone gap work really well on iOS
devices. I think many people are surprised how well an apps experience can be
with this tech... granted, lots of people don't know that large numbers of
apps are really just a web view wired to a minimal obj-c shell so I think the
approach is pretty successful if not the framework itself.
~~~
eddieplan9
A counter-example is Safari To Go - Safari Book Online's iPad app, which they
withdrew due to bad review:
[http://blog.safaribooksonline.com/2010/11/24/ipad-app-
safari...](http://blog.safaribooksonline.com/2010/11/24/ipad-app-safari-to-go-
update-november-24-2010/)
Most people agreed that PhoneGap was the wrong framework. It's not that
PhoneGap is intrinsically bad - it is not - but that it is not for every task,
and more likely, it is not good for most tasks that are more than a short
load-lookup-leave cycle.
------
megaman821
If you would asked me a year ago, I would have thought webOS had no chance
given its slow pace of development. Yet the rev one tablet offerings from
Google and RIM are basically betas so HP has a good chance of catching up.
Likewise in the phone segment, the third place slot is far from wrapped up.
MeeGo was DOA and Windows Phone 7 isn't exactly lighting the sales charts on
fire.
Solid execution from HP over the next 6 months could really ignite the webOS
platform.
------
nl
Does anyone else agree WebOS is the number 3 mobile OS after iOS & Android?
Seriously?
Objectively RIM is by far the 3rd biggest player (by some measures it is in
the top 2), and I can't see how WebOS is magically going to leapfrog them.
Playbook might not be perfect, but it's a lot better than the unshipped HP
TouchPad.
In my head WinPhone7 is number 4 - and they at least have a strategy to move
up in the market (aka Nokia).
WebOS might be lovely (I wouldn't know.. you can't buy it in my market - which
says a lot), but I can list pages in Wikipedia for lovely platforms like
WebOS: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine>,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga>, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure>
etc etc)
------
unwiredben
I'm working with a team doing amazing things to ready the the HP TouchPad
launch and webOS 3.0 for launch. We wouldn't be working so hard if we thought
this platform was dead on arrival. HP has big plans and I'm glad we're a part
of it.
~~~
eekfuh
Ben, we love you guys, but we feel that you spend too much time with EA,
GameLoft and probably Rovio, and not enough with us little guys. Maybe thats
whats caused some me to get so distant, worsening the effect.
In all reality, thats business. A company that was driving only a few thousand
dollars of revenue a month isn't all the important compared to the ones
probably doing 10-100x that. :|
------
zmmmmm
The real question is not whether WebOS is good or bad but whether any single
hardware and OS vendor (other than Apple, obviously) has a snowflake's chance
in hell of getting the ecosystem and mindshare required to be competitive.
Especially in the US where the carriers have a such strong hold on the only
viable channels to consumers you basically can't get anywhere unless you can
align your interests strongly with the established parties. Apple forced their
way in through sheer mass consumer appeal, Google managed to do it through a
brilliant strategy of giving carriers just enough control to make them see it
as a savior from being dictated to by Apple. But what strategic value will
carriers get from offering WebOS based phones? If HP screws them with bad
hardware they are stuck. If HP screws them with bad software they are stuck.
Pile on top of that the fact that the demands of modern smart phones these
days go way beyond a nice OS - you just can't compete unless you come to the
table with a huge range of services integrated - mapping, search, voice-to-
text, etc. WebOS relies on competitors to get these services which can't
possibly work long term.
I also disagree with the assessment of WP7 - I don't think the so-called
"missteps" have even been noticed by the vast majority of consumers using WP7
phones. With Nokia maxing out their distribution channel to push WP7 phones I
really can't see how WebOS is going to beat them. People are going to buy them
just through sheer numbers of them on the shelves. It doesn't mean WP7 is
going to succeed but certainly indicates WebOS is going to have a really hard
time beating them.
------
jchrisa
HP will be shipping WebOS on all its laptops and desktops. They are the #1
computer maker. You do the math.
~~~
podperson
Here's my math. It seems to me there are two possibilities:
WebOS fails on the laptop and desktop (e.g. is perceived as crap/bloat-ware or
simply ignored). In this case the math doesn't look good.
WebOS succeeds on the laptop and desktop. This means that a whole bunch of
users are willing to give up on Windows for their computing needs. Long
overdue, since most people's computing needs are met by a web browser and a
few other programs you can get for free. If this looks like happening, it's
open season on the PC industry business model. Apple has already taken away
the high margin market... this will be like a horde of hyenas ripping into a
wounded wildebeest. I'm not sure this is actually a better outcome for HP.
~~~
Duff
The PC business model is a zombie right now. I work at a joint that rolled out
about 12,000 PCs a year, every year. Since 2008? 2,000/year... mostly laptops
to folks whose jobs have become more mobile.
ALL of the good customer facing people with companies that peddle PCs in my
neck of the woods have either moved on to greener pastures or are holding out
for retirement.
My guess is that in 2014, those 6+ year old PCs will start failing and be
replaced with tablets for about 60% of the workers. I betcha that the rest
will be PCs from no-frills vendors like Asus.
Big enterprises are very conscious of costs, and the "whale" of client-
computing costs is that fat Microsoft EA that just gobbles up capital. That's
a big cash flow to build a business case for an alternate product.
~~~
podperson
Exactly. If WebOS "succeeds" on the desktop it will only be because the PC
business is done. And in that case, being the world's number one PC vendor
isn't very helpful.
------
jeffthebear
> WebOS even beat Windows Phone 7 in the single most important determination
> of the success of any mobile platform. The availability of Angry Birds.
Angry Birds is coming to Windows Phone 7:
[http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/14/angry-birds-for-windows-
phone-...](http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/14/angry-birds-for-windows-
phone-7-taking-off-on-may-25th/)
~~~
spicerunner
Yes, it definitely is coming to Windows Phone 7.
------
viraptor
One announcement that I really look forward to, is a system with multi-user
support. Since webos is kind of new (or at least will get a proper re-release
at this point with the first tablet device), I hope this option will be
included. The first tablet device which allows separate accounts for each user
at home gets my money as soon as it's released.
------
moondowner
> "Like I said, my bet is on WebOS over Windows Phone 7. "
Mine too, few months ago I ran into some tutorials on getting started on
developing for webOS on Mobiletuts+ and installed the webOS image for
VirtualBox, and my impressions of webOS were positive. Since then a new
version of webOS was released, I can only imagine that it's even better.
------
dr_
They've taken a great OS and put it in a somewhat poor smartphone. I found
they keyboard on the initial Pre to be very bad. I've heard it has improved
since then, but as they saying goes, first impressions count a lot.
I really thought with HP they would make significant enhancements to the
hardware, but so far I haven't seen anything too compelling. Still, it's a
great OS and I wish them luck. I may take another look at it in the tablet
form.
~~~
antidaily
Agreed. The Pre's battery life was atrocious.
------
warpdesign
I have to agree with most of the comments:
\- The OS is great, but the hardware really falls behind... too small screen,
poor battery: I'm wondering: I don't think you can have lots of success
without both a great phone and a greato OS
\- As for the free developer device offer, it seems they were a bit
selective... I applied for it and didn't get any answer.
I started developing even before the device was released here in France, and
have had to use the emulator since then. And that's a pain :(
Let's hope the Pre 3 will change these things (the Veer won't certainly have a
bigger screen... And if I remember correctly you'll need an adaptator to
connect earphones: that's definitely not a phone for me :))
------
bryanmig
I bought a Palm Pre (1) for Sprint about a month after it came out. I still
think the operating system, WebOS, is great but Palm really let me down with
the device. It was just pure crap.
Despite its sleek design, the craftsmanship was poor and the phone cracked in
multiple places. The plastic screen also scratched very easily.
The worst part of it all is that the phone is underpowered. The processor is
slower and has less RAM than its competition. This is why the phone performed
so poorly despite having a great operating system.
I hope HP can make the next generation WebOS powered devices perform better
because it really is a great OS.
------
metageek
The Veer is overpriced. My Inspire 4G cost the same two months ago, and it's
much better hardware, plus something like 10 times the apps. HP should have
priced it to where AT&T would sell it for $0 on contract. At $99, there's no
way they'll come from behind.
------
MatthewPhillips
HP needs to push the web angle even harder. If WebOS were the chromeOS of
phone it would have something to really differentiate itself. To do that they
have to go all-in on making the browser really kick ass. The biggest problem
with the mobile web today is the browsers are not nearly as good as the
desktop counterparts. If HP/Palm would make it a priority to have a javascript
engine that comes close to desktop counterparts, to support all of the cutting
edge html5 features, and continually iterate on that, I'd definitely strongly
consider making a switch. They should drop native apps all together and
instead suggest developers use WebGL and html5 (keep the App Catalog but make
it just be for app review and discovery).
------
podperson
Of the three items in the "improved" product line, one is vaporware.
------
ltamake
I liked webOS, it's a shame to see it like this. :(
~~~
spicerunner
The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
------
rbanffy
The biggest threat, by far, to WebOS is some Microsoft exec letting an HP exec
know, casually, while they are, say, playing golf, that HP's Windows license
could end up costing a bit more than Dell's because they are not really
helping Windows Phone 7 become the success it deserves and helping WP7 would
entitle a couple large discounts on other licenses.
Microsoft has enormous power on OEMs.
~~~
spicerunner
All of the antitrust stuff of the last decade has really tamed Microsoft. I'm
not sure they'd do that. I really wanted to like Windows Phone 7, but have
lost faith and think WebOS may have an opportunity to overtake them if HP
plays their cards right.
Microsoft's biggest hope for penetration is the Nokia partnership. Two
frightened dinosaurs huddling in a cave as the comet approaches...
~~~
rbanffy
> All of the antitrust stuff of the last decade has really tamed Microsoft.
That's why discussions like this would no longer happen over e-mail. On a open
field, during a social encounter with no witnesses and no lasting evidence it
ever happened, I am not so sure.
Microsoft has always used discounts to modulate OEM licensing costs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hey, Remember Us? - Facebook Data Viz - chanderson0
http://heyremember.us/
======
stevenp
Interesting idea, but I had to reduce the Safari font size in order to see the
login button, since I'm on an 11" MacBook Air. For some reason they've turned
off overflow on the entire page.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
iPhone's “Field Test” debug screen: Dial *3001#12345#* for real signal strength - Mojah
https://ma.ttias.be/iphones-field-test-debug-screen-dial-300112345-for-the-real-signal-strength/
======
roflchoppa
if you want to keep the numerical signal strength, just press the sleep wake
button until the "slide to power off" appears then press and hold the home
button to force quit the application and it will remain on the screen.
------
sr_banksy
Feels as good as "discovering" *#06# on old Nokias!
------
PhantomGremlin
Does anyone know if this works in the USA? The article is from a domain in
Belgium. Plus, any brave Guinea Pigs? I'm reluctant to muck with my iPhone.
~~~
roflchoppa
yeah it works on all iPhones.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Does This Near-Immortal Life Form Need Saving Soon? - LJone7
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2015/07/13/does-this-near-immortal-life-form-need-saving-soon/
======
buserror
Ahh the good old days of jesus christ. When was that again?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New Apple maps app under fire from users - option_greek
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19659736
======
cletus
Since the passing of Steve Jobs there has understandably been a lot of
speculation about what will happen to Apple given Steve's laser-like focus on
user experience above almost all else. Some self-proclaimed "power users" did
of course rail against the Apple ecosystem but like most things Apple does
(did?) it was right most of the time for most users.
I've been an avid iPhone user since the iPhone 4 and have bought every iPad so
far. iOS 6 may mark a turning point to me such that the 4S that I have now may
well be my last iPhone. My phone for me is probably beyond anything else a way
of getting places (ie maps). Even more than phone calls, SMS or the Internet.
I sympathize with the position that Apple wants to control the entire
experience but I really am dumbfounded that they've sacrificed user experience
to do it. So much so that I don't think I want to update to iOS 6.
When compared to Android, the one remaining pillar for the iPhone for me is
battery life. The 4S simply trumps any Android I've used or witnessed to date.
I typically have to charge my phone only every 2-3 days. The Droid I have
(which admittedly was a terrible phone) is lucky to last a day. The Galaxy S3
is better but still...
I look forward to the next Android phone running out-of-the-box 4.1 (or
whatever the latest release is at that point).
~~~
arrrg
Apple can’t unilaterally decide to use Google Maps or not. You do not know the
conditions Google set. My guess is that Apple was backed into a corner and
Google wouldn’t give them vector maps or turn-by-turn navigation.
Building a good maps service is miles outside of Apple’s core competency, so
this is all very sad – but at the same time no surprise at all.
(Mind you, all this at best explains the bad maps experience, it does not
excuse it.)
~~~
brudgers
It's a product of Apple's inability to form stable B2B relationships - "adult
relationships" if one enjoys snarky analogies. Contrast this to the way in
which Microsoft has recently addressed Google's strength in Maps. They found
someone with mutual interests. [http://searchengineland.com/microsoft-and-
nokia-present-unif...](http://searchengineland.com/microsoft-and-nokia-
present-unified-maps-on-pc-mobile-113133)
Google and Apple have been unfriending each other since Schmidt resigned from
Apple's board three years ago. A jilted Apple is again "looking and feeling"
for reasons to drag the _ex_ who cheated on them into court. Heck, in Samsung,
they are even treating one of their current "friends with benefits" like an
_ex_.
TomTom's response, "We are a paid escort service, you can find us in the
phonebook."
~~~
ryanhuff
Regardless of the drama involved, the fact is that Google is competing against
Apple, and maps are a significant enabler of that competition. Apple has to
cut off Google in this case.
~~~
brudgers
Imagine TomTom when they got a call from Apple. It's not as if TomTom aren't
facing competition from Google, only more so because the dedicated GPS
hardware they sell is becoming increasingly marginalized by smartphones.
They've got to have been thinking, "This could big," while imagining the
benefits from being a partner in the data development for Apple's map app.
But Apple didn't want a relationship, just a one time cash transaction so that
Apple can encroach on TomTom's business. Part of me suspects that Apple got
the worst possible data set TomTom could deliver and still plausibly argue
they met the requirements of their agreement with Apple. There was no
strategic advantage in doing otherwise.
Apple needs to move on. It was Google that did the cutting off.
~~~
jetti
"But Apple didn't want a relationship, just a one time cash transaction so
that Apple can encroach on TomTom's business. Part of me suspects that Apple
got the worst possible data set TomTom could deliver and still plausibly argue
they met the requirements of their agreement with Apple. There was no
strategic advantage in doing otherwise."
I disagree. Even if they gave them a high quality data set, that set is going
to be obsolete within a year (let's say). Now Apple can either choose to keep
obsolete data (which will definitely impact customers) or buy updated data
from TomTom.
~~~
brudgers
The scenario you propose doesn't provide a strategic benefit to TomTom because
it does not address TomTom's long term disadvantage relative to Google and
other companies in the mobile navigation space. Google's and Apple's mobile
mapping services run on devices which can communicate data back to their
services.
TomTom's problem is that their devices only communicate one direction. A
partnership with Apple could have allowed TomTom to collect realtime data
directly in the same way as their major competitors.
In the next twelve months, Apple will probably have collected more useful data
than TomTom in many respects. That doesn't mean they will be successful in
using it to their advantage, but it does mean that there is little reason for
Apple to purchase a new dataset.
~~~
jetti
But it would mean that Apple would have to rely on users to report any new
road construction or road name changes. Just because the phone could
communicate back, doesn't mean the user will or that the data will be correct.
Maybe my creativity is limited but I just don't see how Apple being able to
collect data would help with getting updated maps. I think it could help with
their directions since they know the most commonly taken routes and could
actually even time people's routes to find which are truly the quickest, but I
don't know how it would help with updating maps from road changes and the
like.
~~~
brudgers
I suspect that Google can detect road construction using data mining
techniques...it's the sort of phenomenon that is relevant to mapping only
because of its effect on movement.
~~~
jetti
I apologize for not being more clear, but when I said road construction I
didn't mean just fixing of roads but adding new roads. In order to have those
new roads in your system you need to update your data set.
I have fallen victim to this. I bought a new used car (it's new to me but a
2007 model) that has built in navigation. Between the date of manufacture of
the nav disk and current date, an interstate was added/modified near me. Now
everytime I go by that area my GPS says I'm in the middle of a field. In
reality, I can't see a customer filing a ticket with Apple to get that road in
the GPS system. Even if they do, Apple would most likely need coordinates.
This construction of new roads is what TomTom has a temporary strategic
advantage over Apple (only temporary since Apple could get a department
together to monitor all new roads).
~~~
vsl
Have you seen the iOS6 Maps problems-reporting UI? It's simple, it's fast,
it's _right in the place_ where you encountered the bug.
The other thing you ignore is that people want their local data to be correct
in the maps they use, for practical reasons. I too reported new construction
around my home everywhere I could, because it's, among other things, in my
best interest to have my address easy to find (by guests or postal drivers,
for example) on any GPS out there.
------
Apreche
Just add maps.google.com to your home screen. I was doing that even before the
new iOS. It's better than the new Maps app or the old one. Bicycle directions!
Also, FYI, the previous Maps app did use Google Maps, but the app itself was
written by Apple. I once was at a Google event and asked a Googler who works
on Maps about it. They have been frustrated for years that they could not
update that app when they added new features to Google Maps. I expect within a
short time we will see an iOS Google Maps that is on par with the Android app.
~~~
rmc
_I expect within a short time we will see an iOS Google Maps that is on par
with the Android app._
I wonder if Google will do that. Surely they want people to use Android, and
"better maps on Android", would be a nice selling point.
~~~
anextio
No. Google want people using their services. They don't care if people are
using Android or not - Android is simply a platform upon which they can get
users to use their services. That is their only vested interest.
~~~
kls
Right Android exist because Google feared that people could be locked out of
Google services. Google services and access to them, is their first priority.
------
homosaur
I've been on IOS 6 since a few days after the beta came out and I can tell you
that the new Maps is nearly worthless, especially if you've entered a decent
amount of data into Google Maps. Yes the navigation sucks, yes there's other
huge basic issues, but the killer for me is that I have over 270 starred
places in Google Maps and without being able to get to that data, Apple's new
option is nearly useless.
I don't want to gloss over how much the basics suck on this app, they suck
profoundly. The bookmarks is the worst loss though. I have an iPhone for work
but I'm very glad I no longer am under a personal iPhone contract because with
the lack of features in IOS 6, I don't see how I'd ever go back to using an
Apple phone full time.
~~~
homosaur
It's a KILLER atlas though, way better than Google Earth on iPad.
------
brudgers
It's just Apple's turn. It has been said many times, "It's an early version of
an application _Company X_ copied from another company. I'm sure _Company X_
will improve it to a workable but inferior product in future versions."
The first debacle with their Maps app (not crediting OpenStreetMap.org) gave
me the feeling that Apple doesn't really have experience with software and
data at the scale upon which they are currently operating. Sometimes it looks
as if they are using too many interns to write important code.
What is a concern is that there seems to be no grasp of the difference in
responsibility a developer must recognize between GarageBand and a mapping
application. Sure it is irritating if one's remix of _Call me Maybe_ doesn't
come out quite the intended way. But an appendicitis sufferer may die if they
wind up five miles from the hospital.
~~~
vsl
Correction: OSM data was used in iPhoto (and on OS X, I think?), not maps.
------
tptacek
I like the new Maps app. I know it's objectively horrible and am not disputing
any of the ironclad cases everyone else has made against it. All I'm saying is
this: I punched in directions to Lao Sze Chuan in Chinatown last night,
driving from Oak Park. I threw my phone on the passenger seat and drove. The
sensible route it plotted for me was unworkable due to traffic, so I detoured
through UIC campus. The moment I diverged from its route, without me doing
anything, it replotted a new route, and then a series of new routes as I
ignored those directions, until I got to Roosevelt and followed its directions
the rest of the way there --- which were much better than the route I would
have taken.
Obviously, I fall into a specific class of Maps user:
* Using directions primarily when I'm driving
* In a major city
But that's a big class of users and, so far, Maps is better for that use case.
The Maps app from 10.5 was unusable for driving.
~~~
mootothemax
_But that's a big class of users and, so far, Maps is better for that use
case. The Maps app from 10.5 was unusable for driving._
Thank you, you've written a more useful summary review of the new maps app
than anything else I've read lately.
I've tried driving with the previous Maps app - with a borrowed iPhone, I
don't yet own one - and was really surprised at how unusable it was. I was
left thinking that not a single person on that project could have attempted to
drive on their own with it, otherwise how else could it be so bad?
_rant over_
~~~
ryanpers
I also gave the driving directions a shot, the voice cues are great, the
visuals look fantastic and really awesome. Also when you deviate it doesnt
give you some "ROBOT RECALCULATING" voice, instead she smoothly cuts over to
the next set of directions.
The new 3d looks good, the map tiles need work but they just look DIFFERENT
and not necessarily "worse" to me. This is in SOMA San Francisco.
------
adriand
I understand the experience may not be ideal (I haven't tried it out yet,
either), but take a moment to reflect on what they actually did: in a little
over a year Apple completely replaced one of iOS's core technologies, one that
relies on a mind-bogglingly complex and astoundingly huge data set, and is now
pushing this out to millions of devices.
Most of us know what it is like to have to launch something. Launching
something is never easy. We frequently talk about the MVP here on HN as well.
Apple has done the difficult work of launching their MVP. Now they can make it
better. It may never be as good as Google Maps, but that doesn't mean it will
always be terrible.
~~~
smackfu
>in a little over a year
That's just a made up timeline. They may have been working on a maps
replacement for years.
~~~
bennyg
His point is still pretty valid. How long would it take you to develop and
roll out the maps application at the quality it is now, for a MVP?
~~~
eli
The logic behind creating an MVP doesn't really make sense when the market for
the product isn't competitive.
Apple didn't offer their mapping solution as an option in the App Store to
judge interest; they forced anyone who buys new or upgrades for any reason to
use it.
------
oozcitak
There are localization issues as well. Some place names in Turkey appear to be
transferred over from legacy windows-1254 code page (e.g. Avcılar displayed as
Avcýlar) Some have replacement letters for certain characters (dotless i, ş,
ç, ğ). For example, "Sık orman" (dense forest) became "Sik orman" (penis
forest).
Overall (at least in Turkey) the legends appear to come from an old, low
quality source.
~~~
kalleboo
Here in Japan, I managed to spot a place with a Hangul (Korean) label! God
knows how that happened...
------
marknutter
You know what else sucks on the iPhone? The notes app - That's why I use
Evernote. And the tasks app - that's why I use Clear. And the mail app -
that's why I use Gmail. And iBooks - which is why I use the Kindle app.
Point is, you can download an app that works better for you if you're not
happy with Maps anymore, just like you could with all of the other built in
Apple software. I think Apple really needed to control their own destiny with
the Maps software, and most non-geeks are probably not going to notice that
their Maps app is getting it's data from somewhere else now. They probably
didn't realize it was coming from Google Maps in the first place.
~~~
pmjordan
Mobile Safari is slow and crashy, good thing I can replace it with…
waitaminute. As far as I know there's no decent replacement for Maps either;
it remains to be seen if Apple will permit a direct replacement. If Google
doesn't release one themselves, it could be problematic for a third party to
create an app using Google's map API - that's centered around use in web apps,
although their "Maps for Business" might be suited. Still, it's a hell of a
risk to take. (but possibly with a handsome reward)
~~~
k-mcgrady
You can replace Safari with Opera, Chrome, Dolphin, or several others. You
can't set them as default but you can replace them. There are plenty of map
alternatives too - Open Street Map, TomTom, Google Earth, etc.
~~~
bryanlarsen
Those alternative browsers either use the Safari rendering engine or render
offline, so are significantly crippled compared to something like Firefox for
Android.
------
saturdaysaint
Around me (SE Michigan) it's a huge improvement over both the old Maps app and
any of the turn-by-turn iOS alternatives I've tried. Using Siri and saying
"directions to..." any local business I can think of brings up turn-by-turn
directions in a snap, and it looks great. Smooth animations, great fit and
finish on the UI. I suspect that their European maps are of lower quality
and/or the writer cherry-picked some entertaining but not terribly
representative examples.
~~~
stephen_g
The maps around me in Brisbane, Australia seem pretty good, but I only spent
five minutes playing around. All the searches I tried (some for street
addresses, some for POIs) got the right address.
So far it seems no worse around the city than Google Maps but only time will
tell if that's the case.
------
jusben1369
Poor old Tom Tom is completely on the back foot and trying to distance itself
as far as it can without throwing a super major partner under the bus.
~~~
jreposa
None of us will know the complete depth of their relationship, but TomTom
shouldn't be so removed from this PR. What they should have said is "Although
Apple provides additional layers of functionality on top of our map data,
we've reached out to Apple to help support in fixing these issues."
That sounds a lot nicer than "it's not our problem"...
------
ChuckMcM
I am reminded once again at how much it takes to put together a "maps"
experience like Google Maps does. That Apple's initial version sucks rocks
isn't particularly surprising, there is a lot of integration and a lot of
data, the world is a really really big place. Its very hard for humans to
curate it too.
Next up, Apple will get their own direct source of satellite imagery, then
they will drive/fly around major towns getting direct information about local
restrictions, then they will build a system which does nothing more than
cross-connect and correlate GIS data from various sources and test for sanity.
Perhaps they will create a crowd sourced tool for directly feeding map errors
into the system to triage the worst areas.
Its a big undertaking.
------
MattRogish
As a long-term Apple user/fan, I'm both incredibly disappointed and intensely
optimistic with this change.
I've been using iOS6 since the first beta and saw the backlash coming. I think
"Street View" is Google Maps' killer feature and no amount of "3D View" is
going to replace the ability to virtually drive your route (or see the
storefront, the turn you need to make, etc.).
On the other hand, Google has a habit of releasing amazingly disruptive
products (maps, gmail, etc.) and then the pace of innovation of each app slows
dramatically. What was the last "innovation" gmail did? Priority inbox? Buying
Sparrow?
I'm optimistic this is the start of an arms race in the mapping area (Apple:
please tackle email next); this needed to occur sooner rather than later. We
don't know the circumstances of the switch (it seems equally likely that
Google precipitated the change as Apple did) but given Apple's knack for
taking a MVP and continually, doggedly improving it, I think the future is
bright for iOS Mapping.
~~~
mburshteyn
Do you think Apple would have any chance in an arms race over Search with
Google? If the answer is no, why do you think Apple has any chance in Maps?
~~~
MattRogish
On the desktop? No.
On iOS devices? Absolutely.
------
Karunamon
Not sure what the hell they were expecting to happen. You don't take an
existing, working, mature, and proven solution and then replace it en masse
with something unproven and untested.
This particular bit of sour grapes over Google is going to bite them in the
arse.
------
bgarbiak
The greatest disappointment (for me) comes from the fact that free turn-by-
turn navigation is not available for iPhone 4. That particular feature made me
happy about Apple's switch from Google's to their own solution. I couldn't
care less for Siri, flyover maps or panorama (seriously, that one is iPhone
4S+ too), but navigation? That's a deal breaker. If Google won't provide this
with their app I won't stick to iOS when my contract ends.
------
epo
You can't make an omelette ... It'll be interesting to see the pace of
development of this vs Google's inevitable maps app.
The mapping must be updated OTA so won't require IOS refreshes to improve the
quality. But for now this app is like the stereotypical bimbo, quite pretty to
look at but also pretty useless.
------
uslic001
The new maps is way off. I took 4 pictures last night while fishing. When I
looked at the gps data of where I caught the fish one was on land and three
others were 4 miles off as they had me on the other end of the lake I was
fishing on. Apple really messed up with this change.
------
cstross
Another annoying loss; no pedestrian or cycle routes, as far as I can see.
As I'm mostly a pedestrian -- I have a car, but live in the centre of a dense
city where parking is a nightmare, so I walk rather than driving if at all
possible -- from my point of view, this is a major regression.
~~~
objclxt
There are pedestrian routes _in some cities_ , but not all. I only know this
because I was in San Francisco last week and I actually got offered them,
whereas in London I'm SOL.
------
_delirium
The article ends on a strange note, essentially a guy complaining that his
Google SEO doesn't carry over to the new Apple app?
~~~
DeepDuh
"Hey Joe, thanks for that article you submitted this morning. Listen, it's a
bit too technical, could you add something, you know, more emotional?"
------
blinkingled
According to Gruber and Rafer Apple seems to have a plan : for this plan to
work however, iOS users must keep using the inferior Apple maps and Google
must stay away from giving them a chance to continue to use their own ones -
that will make quality of Apple maps go up and Google maps go down - they will
meet in 18 months.
Gotta admire people's willingness to stretch here :) But seriously I think
Google will just release a Maps app for iOS sooner or later. They've done that
with most of their apps - it may not be as good and functional as Android one
but it doesn't have to - the bar has been lowered.
------
toddmorey
The big problem I see is that Apple effectively removed street view from the
iPhone as it's not even available in the mobile safari version of Google Maps.
I don't mind that they are working on their own maps, but I can't believe they
couldn't have licensed Google maps for at least another year until their
solution matured or offered some sort of advantage. The first iPhone brought
the best mobile maps experience. The latest iPhone brings the worst.
To me, the real test is whether Apple will allow a map application from Google
to coexist on the iPhone. I'm hoping they do. It's the right thing to do.
~~~
nicholassmith
The issue is we don't know _why_ they stopped licensing, although if you
follow the scuttlebutt Google hiked prices of mapping, followed by Apple
announcing their intent to ship their own maps, followed by Google dropping
prices of mapping. Might have been an unsuccessful negotiation, Google might
have made high demands, Apple might have been cads. No one knows, what we do
know is the licensing agreement expired and they couldn't arrange a new one.
------
joelhooks
I've been using the maps and find them MUCH improved in the car. I wish I
could turn off the voice prompts, but it is very usable and has got me where
I'm going reliably.
------
siri
I am using IOS 6 beta since last few months in India, it just gives the
message directions could not be found even for a locations 100 meters away.
------
eckyptang
Another plus for Microsoft/Nokia.
Windows Phone with Nokia Maps / Nokia Drive is actually _really_ good and it's
not about to disappear overnight.
------
jsz0
Apple's Maps have been good for me so far in the north east United States. I
greatly prefer the UI of Apple's Maps to Navigation on Android which is way
too cluttered IMO. I find it easier to get things done with Apple Maps
especially with the way turn-by-turn is integrated with the pop-over
notifications and lock-screen integration.
------
lectrick
1) Go to maps.google.com in Safari on your iPhone or iPad
2) Hit Yes when it wants to know your location
3) Hit Yes when it pesters you to add it as an icon (for once, it's not
bothering me). The icon is snazzy.
4) Enjoy your almost-as-good-as-the-app-was mobile Google Maps experience.
Complete with transit directions. But, alas, no Street View.
~~~
panacea
Permit me a small moment of pride at my choice of life-partner.
I asked my wife if I could upgrade her phone to the new OS, but that the map
app has changed for the worse and 'You may not like it... How often do you use
it?' 'A few times a week'.
She's not a geek whatsoever. Has never installed an app and barely touched a
preferences setting. Loves listening to the podcasts I subscribe to for her
and tell her which app to use.
So I hand her the 'upgraded' phone and ask her to check out the new map app.
She does a search for the office she's working in tomorrow and it pinmarks the
completely wrong end of the street.
I felt bad about 'upgrading' her phone, but a minute later she hands it back
to me.
She's moved the Apple map app onto the second screen and replaced it with a
weblink to the Google maps site.
Clever girl ;]
------
dkroy
As a developer this kind of update makes me happy since it might result in
Apple giving up some of its mobile phone market share to Microsoft and Google.
I would much rather develop in Java or C#, instead either struggle through
Objective C or use a third party developer tool to avoid doing so. Although,
as an iPhone user it makes me sad. The UX with the iPhone has been amazing. I
chose to use this phone even though I dislike all that is apple, just because
to me when it came to my user experience it was leaps and bounds ahead of any
other. Now that one of my most used apps has been pushed out temporarily it
kind of makes me nervous. I have even heard who have applied iOS6, have lost
all of their photos, luckily since I rely on a few jailbroken apps had not
updated.
------
liotier
Disappointed with the iOS 6 maps ? Why don’t you give OpenStreetMap a try ?
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IOS> \- it won't give you pretty satellite
imagery, but maybe you'll like the maps.
~~~
homosaur
In many places OSM is the most accurate mapping system and overall it's very
good, but my problem is, has anyone yet built an app worth a crap on top of
it? One with turn by turn, etc?
~~~
chippy
Yes they have, so the problem may be one of findability, or marketing of these
apps.
------
andrewcooke
is this particularly bad in the uk? there's now a guardian article too -
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/20/apple-
maps-...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/20/apple-maps-
ios6-station-tower)
~~~
epo
No, just people piling on, and probably the Guardian using the BBC as a news
source.
~~~
objclxt
Actually, I'll disagree with you there and say that I have found the Apple map
tiles to be pretty poor in London. Paddington Station, one of the main
commuter rail hubs in the city, is missing entirely (the Underground station
got added in recently, but the mainline station remains invisible), and the
geo-coder is considerably poorer than Google's.
I develop iOS apps for a living, and I really like the platform. I've also
been using the beta for about three months, and _frequently_ I've had to pull
my Galaxy S2 out to use the Android maps app. Most people won't have that
luxury.
~~~
anu_gupta
I'm looking at the map tile for London Paddington Rail Station on my iOS6 iPad
right now. It's clearly there.
------
purephase
It seems like such an innocuous thing, but Maps can truly make or break a
phone decision. There is no question that Android has a considerably better
user experience when it comes to Maps given the lead that Google has. That
being said, Apple certainly has the cash and time to devote to this and a
better competitor (and more effort in OSM) means that we all win in a way. So
it will be interesting to watch it play out.
One minor gripe with turn-by-turn. If I'm playing music/podcasts, I would have
expected the volume to mute on the other media when driving directions are
announced. Not so, it just turns into a garbled mess.
The compression on Siri kind of sucks too.
~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "One minor gripe with turn-by-turn. If I'm playing music/podcasts, I would
have expected the volume to mute on the other media when driving directions
are announced. Not so, it just turns into a garbled mess."
I don't really sue turn-by-turn but from what I understand it's supposed to
lower the volume of other media playing when announcing directions and then
bring the volume back when done. Might be something you can change in the
settings.
~~~
MattRogish
It does this on mine (I haven't done turn-by-turn on iOS6 final, but when I
was on the betas, it performed as expected)
~~~
purephase
Odd, it doesn't for me (either in the betas or final version). Maybe there is
a setting somewhere...
------
bdreadz
Said it in another thread. maps.google.com in iOS. Bookmark to home screen.
To the people talking about this is a sign of Steve Jobs being gone. I'm sure
he had his hand in wanting to get away from Google Maps. These types of things
were still part of his plan. AppleTV (the none hobby version) is part of his
plan. We haven't seen that. There is still a trail that Steve laid down we are
walking on. It's more 5-10 years from now I imagine that will lack the touch.
Maybe it is fading. It's still there though. imho.
------
epaga
In my mind, this will be the first major test of Tim Cook as a CEO. This is
not "I get a bad signal if I hold the phone the wrong way". This is "my iPhone
drove us to the wrong hospital so I wasn't able to say goodbye to my
grandfather".
Problem is, I don't see what they are supposed to do except throwing massive
amounts of money and manpower at the problem - but even that will take a long
time to fix the major issues that are in iOS6 Maps.
It will be very interesting to see how they react to this problem.
------
scottschulthess
I find the new maps app really good, one of the best driving direction apps
I've seen. It is an improvement over waze in UI and the enhance backgrounding
is awesome.
Maybe not as feature rich as some of the alternatives, but what do you expect
in a v1? They will iterate, though the yearly releases means it will take time
but it will get there. In the mean time the app store provides a lot of
options for users to replace _lost_ functionality.
------
NameNickHN
Apple probably underestimated the complexity of creating and providing useful
maps. I read an article recently that explained how much effort Google puts
into their maps. From what I understand, every map tile has been manually
reviewed and reworked based on satellite images and the data from the Google
street view cars. Google is years ahead of Apple with this. It'll take a while
until Apple's maps are par with Google's.
------
labizaboffle
Does anyone remember when Mapquest and then Google Maps first started? Bad
directions, etc. was the norm.
The only thing that is wrong with Apple doing this is that they didn't release
as "beta" and make a big deal about how users can turn on the "beta" switch to
test the cool new things, or the "alpha" switch and get shit that might break
their phone but gives them superpowers no other geek has.
------
epo
I wonder what the behind-the-scenes truth of this is? Apple must have known
that their mapping solution wasn't ready for release.
Perhaps Google forced their hand or Google pulled the plug knowing that Apple
would dump them eventually but weren't ready to do so quite yet. If so, then
don't expect Google to offer a maps app for some time yet because it is to
their advantage to let Apple stew.
------
psychotik
The Bing iOS app has transit and good mapping features. I'm surprised folks
aren't using that as an alternative.
------
marklabedz
Is the experience any better when utilizing Siri as an interface? If you ask
Siri for directions instead of relying on the built-in search functionality,
is it any better or would both Siri and iOS maps query the same database?
Siri --> Address --> iOS nav via street address
------
JofArnold
Assuming Google releases an iOS Maps app, I'd much prefer them to do that and
make regular updates than leave it to Apple just 3 times a year. Having said
that, the fact they didn't include an option just to save $1b a year is beyond
absurd.
------
caycep
from what i've seen, the real issue is probably the text parsing algorithms
need work. I tried a few addresses - about 70% were correct. the ones that
weren't just seemed like the algorithm wasn't recognizing town, state, etc
------
outworlder
>Users also reported missing local places, such as schools, or strange
locations. Another screenshot showed a furniture museum that was apparently
located in a river.
From a twitter account called @fake_iOS6maps ? Seriously, BBC?
~~~
hahainternet
The irony here is that you didn't bother to check what the fake_ bit means.
It's like fakesteve, the images aren't faked, the account is not an official
iOS6 account.
~~~
niggler
Why wouldn't the person use "SteveSays"/"iOS6Maps_Gaffes" or something along
those lines?
~~~
hahainternet
Because of FakeSteve.
------
001sky
_Satellite images of various locations, particularly in Scotland, are obscured
by cloud._
\--Satalite images obcured by _clouds_. TomTom=WTF.
------
spitx
>Here in Manhattan, where I live, basic search by building names is profoundly
degraded in Apple's maps search. "Bloomberg" doesn't find the Bloomberg Tower;
on Google Maps it's the first result. Searching for its address "731 Lexington
Avenue" yields that address on Lexington Avenue in Brooklyn. It's fine to
think that perhaps I wanted the address in Bed-Stuy, but even appending "NY,
NY" or "Manhattan, NY" still yields the Brooklyn address. Google maps has none
of these comprehension issues. I understand this is due to Apple partnering
with Tom Tom, whose maps are considered to be lower in quality than other
players like Nokia, but I'm not informed enough to say with certainty whether
that's the case.
<http://dashes.com/anil/images/lexington-map.jpg>
Source: [http://dashes.com/anil/2012/09/who-benefits-from-
ios6s-crapp...](http://dashes.com/anil/2012/09/who-benefits-from-ios6s-crappy-
maps.html)
~~~
gyardley
Noticed this today. I wanted to get the cross-street of an address on
Broadway.
First, I get an address on Broadway in Bayonne. Okay, almost plausible, since
I was in Hoboken. I append 'New York, NY' to the address. Now I get an address
in Brooklyn. Completely ridiculous. I append 'Manhattan, NY' to the address.
Still Brooklyn.
At that point I added Google Maps to my home screen. If someone posts a clear
guide to jailbreaking iOS 6 and re-adding the native Google Maps app, I'll
probably do it.
------
sigzero
It's a one-dot-oh release. So that is the level of expectation that I am
giving it.
~~~
hahainternet
It's been deployed globally on tens of millions of devices _removing_ the
existing solution.
That's the level of expectation that I'm giving it.
~~~
rimantas
In contrast with Android where Google can remove most of the apps and majority
of users stuck with 2.x versions won't even know.
On the serious note, I guess this sucks most for US users. In other parts of
the world transit data was not available anyway, so nobody cares.
~~~
hahainternet
> In contrast with Android where Google can remove most of the apps and
> majority of users stuck with 2.x versions won't even know.
This isn't the place for childish digs at competitors. Apple removed maps and
replaced it with an inferior version for millions of their customers. As a
result, the poor quality of these maps has made front page news.
Trying to invoke "Android isn't up to date" is childish and uninformed. Maps
is distributed via the _Play Store_. You are wrong in every substantial
respect.
~~~
rimantas
Not sure about childish, but regarding uninformed: there is some information
for you: <http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html>
To compare this to the iOS6 (released just a couple of days ago) is left as an
exercise for you :)
~~~
hahainternet
I'm aware of the point he is making. Maps is an app distributed through the
Play Store. It is not distributed by installing a specific version of the OS.
At least understand the platform you are criticising before assuming it
operates in the same restrictive way as others.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Never get another marketing email again - kine
http://blog.zackshapiro.com/never-get-another-marketing-email-again
======
danmaz74
This way you're going to receive only the real spam (that doesn't give a damn
about any CAN-SPAM act) and stop all the legitimate newsletters you could
easily unsubscribe from... not to mention false positives that just talk about
"unsubscribe" for any reason.
------
jamestanderson
The false positives this would generate, in my opinion, outweigh any benefit
of having such a filter. I'd rather manually unsubscribe from marketing
emails, since, as the author says, the "unsubscribe" functionality is so
prevalent.
------
MrDOS
What, and throw out any legitimate e-mail that contains the word
“unsubscribe”? Seems a little heavy-handed to me.
~~~
kine
I see your point. There are of course false positives but this approach
removes a lot of unwanted crap from your inbox instantly
~~~
scrrr
Yeah and to check for false positives I have to go through the spam again.
------
yannyu
Good idea on the face of it, but do Gmail filters let you create exceptions?
There are plenty of useful emails that also have "unsubscribe" in the body.
------
betterunix
A bayesian filter is probably sufficient to do this, and will probably do a
better job in terms of false positives.
------
alexhancock
This would catch a lot of things I wouldn't want to block. It doesn't seem
like a great solution to me.
------
StacyC
I'm OK with some false positives because I think there will be very few in my
case. And I can check the Junk folder once in a while to see if there's
anything I want to keep. I like it.
------
qeorge
I've had this enabled for about 2 months, and its been nothing short of
amazing. (picked it up from an HN thread somewhere). Cannot recommend this
highly enough.
Yes, there's the occasional false positive, but its surprisingly rare. I pop
into my "Unsubscribes" folder every few days to make sure nothing is caught,
just like my Spam folder. If there's a false positive, I make a new rule in
Outlook.
Seriously, try it. You'll be surprised how nice it is, like a clean apartment.
------
mvkel
Sweet, I'll be sure to change our marketing missives to say "remove
subscription"!
~~~
kine
Hah, there you go. I'll update my filter accordingly.
------
ph33t
so if i do this, every list server that i subscribe to will be junked because
normally have unsubscribe info in them ...
------
orangethirty
Won't work with black hat email marketers.
~~~
ctdonath
Speaking of which: any suggestions on ending the deluge of likely black-hat
spam? Shrinking hoses, Russian brides, plenty of other crap which darn near
screams "if you hit 'unsubscribe' we'll know we have a live one and send you
more!"
~~~
orangethirty
I wish I knew. (:
------
rrhoover
Clever :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Nodejs dev needed by Techcrunch Disrupt Hackathon award winner - rudeegraap
We recently won the Social Commerce award at the Techcrunch Disrupt Hackathon and sponsored a booth at the X.commerce ebay / paypal / magento event last week and got a ton of interest and customers and are now looking to roll the complete product in production and pilot it this November.<p>I'd like to see if we can build the whole thing out using nodejs, expressjs and mongodb on the server and with backbonejs & jquery on the client.<p>If you are good with javascript and nodejs I'd like to talk to you and yes we are seed funded and can pay you!<p>Please email Kris at [email protected] for more info.
======
Klonoar
If you're going to give enough information for someone to dig you up, just
state the company name. Why the secrecy?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Abolish the Department of Homeland Security - nextparadigms
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/01/abolish_the_dep.html
======
carbocation
DHS is too inconsistent to be credible. The only flight I've ever missed (I
was running late to a wedding), I missed because I had a tube of toothpaste in
my carry-on. It was found to be small enough to be acceptable, but not until
it had gone through a second round of X-ray.
On another occasion, I was equally late to a connection flight (this time, not
my fault), and I got through security despite having a bottle of water, a
toiletry kit (including 5" blades), etc.
Why? Well, I don't know and I don't really care. The fact of the matter is
that they will give me an aluminum can on the flight anyway, so who cares how
long of a blade I bring onboard in the first place? It's security theater no
matter how you slice it.
~~~
dguaraglia
Look up the term "security theater". That's exactly what they are doing.
Well, that and buying extremely expensive machinery from a company partially
owned by the very man, Michael Chertoff, who co-wrote the PATRIOT act and
jump-started this whole stupid thing. Talk about revolving-door politics and
corruption. _That_ bothers me more than any pat-downs.
~~~
waffle_ss
Is there a list somewhere of all of these corrupt politicians / traitors? If
not, I'm going to start a wiki. Who knows, maybe it will be useful if the
winds of change ever blow through this country.
~~~
Peaker
That would be a great website -- though perhaps somewhat dangerous to run.
~~~
slowpoke
You could ask the Wikileaks folks and community around them for help. I'm sure
they wouldn't be adverse to such a project.
------
DanBC
> _TSA was created two months after the September 11 terrorist attacks, when
> Congress passed the Aviation and Transportation Security Act (ATSA) [.pdf]
> to keep the millions of Americans who travel each day safe and secure across
> numerous modes of transportation._
The rise in death rates after 9/11 from people switching from safe air
transport to dangerous road transport is well known by now.
So it's surprising to see TSA still saying they're spending money to keep
transport safe. That is blatantly not true. One man tries to set fire to
plastic explosive stored in his shoe - now everyone has to take off their
shoes. Meanwhile, thousands die in road traffic every year.
I've travelled on California[1] roads. God almighty; for a nation obsessed
with doing everything by car some parts of the US have an appalling road
system. (I never knew why Americans were happy to drive cars with awful gas
milage. Cheap gas doesn't quite answer that question. Cheap gas and bloody
terrible road surfaces which need a big comfy car does.)
You can kind of forgive Joe Sixpack for being bad at risk assessment and
management. But a government department, spending millions and billions of
public money? It's a disgusting waste.
------
Flow
I'm not a native english speaker, the word "homeland" just seems like a weird
choice to me. It feels too patriotic and even a bit fascistic. I can't recall
any public discussion about the name when they were created, but then I'm not
from the US so I might have missed those.
Also, I'm associating the word with "fatherland", from the post-WW2-nazis-won-
movie with Rutger Hauer :-/
~~~
wavephorm
It's a euphemism.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism>
The US government uses typical propaganda tactics like this, grease up the
names of their authoritarian bills to make them sound nice, when in fact they
are usually quite sinister. For example, the Patriot Act includes provisions
for torturing and spying on Americans.
~~~
mmariani
That is happening almost in every country in the world. Privacy, freedom of
speech, you name it. Blood was spilled to assure we have rights. Even though,
most people are consistently waiving them and they seem not to care about it.
How is it even possible? I'm perplexed by this.
~~~
NegativeOne
That's something that really bothers me. I try to talk to people about this
stuff and they honestly don't care, because it doesn't effect them yet.
------
adamrights
Have you seen this: NY Times has an article. Good friend did the research and
filed the FOIA: <http://epic.org/2012/01/epic---foia-documents-reveal-h.html>
<\---EPIC - FOIA Documents Reveal Homeland Security is Monitoring Political
Dissent
------
andrew_k
Google Cache
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pxxPIla...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pxxPIla6u9sJ:www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/01/abolish_the_dep.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
------
ck2
Before the decade is out they will just rename it to do an end-run around
public relations. Nothing will change and it's never going away because
there's major money being made from it's fake foolishness already.
You really think they are going to give up the "visual response teams" for
searching people at bus and train stations (and even in traffic)? That's the
gold topping of security theater.
ZERO terrorists caught for all that money and other than the box cutters the
original 9/11 would have still made it on the planes for all the rights
violated and money spent.
The should have just secured all airplane cockpit doors and called it a day
but first rule of government, why spend just a million when you can
potentially spend a billion and get lots of wartime powers.
------
DanielBMarkham
I was reading along, nodding my head, then I got to this:
_Hard to argue with most of that, although abolishing the TSA isn't a good
idea. Airport security should be rolled back to pre-9/11 levels, but someone
is going to have to be in charge of it. Putting the airlines in charge of it
doesn't make sense; their incentives are going to be passenger service rather
than security._
What? How many passengers can you service if the airport is unsafe? Is the
author unaware of the hundreds of different types of businesses that operate
in hostile environments yet manage to keep their customers safe as part of
their service? Has he never walked into a fast-food restaurant on a weekend
night and seen the security guards? Hell, that's _McDonalds_ , for
chirstsakes, they sell you 2-dollar burgers. Don't you think the airlines
would do a bit better?
The TSA is the one department we _should_ abolish. They have too broad of a
mandate -- they think they are responsible for controlling, er, protecting
_all_ transportation, not just airline travel. They have too many powers --
the ability to virtually strip-search passengers, prevent innocent people from
traveling, and interfere with international commerce. And, worst of all,
they've combined the military-industrial complex with a paramilitary quasi-
police force. This is like an endless cold war where the people themselves are
the enemy.
The TSA is a terrible mess. That's the one thing we have to get rid of. The
facts are that we went 70 years without the TSA just fine. The threat has not
increased so much to warrant this kind of intervention. So we have tens of
thousands of "officers" harassing normal business travelers daily as part of
this ongoing shoddy security theater. It's a witch hunt without any witches,
but with lots of government dollars, security contractors, and union jobs.
They'll just keep tightening the screws until they do find something alarming.
Then they'll congratulate themselves and ask for more money (and authority.)
You don't need to be a genius to see where all of this is heading.
The TSA is a monster and a menace to freedom. I doubt we'll ever get rid of
it, but that's no reason to give up. Speaking out against it at every
opportunity, to me, is a civic duty. I freely admit to being over-the-top in
my language here, but you have to remember that the entire _idea_ of the type
of security state we now live in was the wildest fantasy just thirty years
ago. I'm just trying to write something that will still be relevant in another
20 years or so. Using that standard, I'm not sure I've been over the top
_enough_.
~~~
wisty
I don't think a free market solution would work - airports will cut costs
until there's a disaster. But airports could do it the way they handle general
aviation safety. You don't have a TSA minder next to the pilot, giving
instructions on how to lower the landing gear - there's a system in place
which seems to work pretty well.
You could argue that no solution (an honor system?) is better than the TSA. Or
that it would be better putting the police in charge (and giving them the
funds to put a couple of officers in each airport gate). If that's a waste of
valuable police time, they could reduce their presence.
~~~
ChrisNorstrom
I agree, "free market solutions" sounds nice until you notice that capitalism
has no soul. It was only a few years ago that airlines bribed the FAA to skip
inspections on their planes. Watch the frontline documentary on how airlines
treat their pilots, barely giving them enough sleep, paying them terribly low
wages, and putting non experienced pilots in senior positions, all to make a
profit. Not to mention this:
<http://www.defraudingamerica.com/faa_corruption.html> and lets not forget
that every few years a major airline files for bankruptcy.
"Oh but the airlines will want to protect their planes because in the long
term it will affect their customers"
We the passengers look into the long term and assume that airlines do too.
History has shown that corporate greed plans for nothing beyond the next
fiscal quarter. I wouldn't trust them one bit.
I don't like the TSA either but leaving it up to the airlines... We can't go
"back" to the way things were, times change, society changes, new threats
emerge.
AND at the end of the day we're all just a bunch of speculators sitting in
front a computer reading one sided stories off of some guy's blog. We don't
have a fraction of enough real data and information to make a call that would
affect millions of people.
~~~
smokeyj
> I agree, "free market solutions" sounds nice until you notice that
> capitalism has no soul.
I've got news for you. Economic models are inanimate. Sorry Che.
> I don't like the TSA either but leaving it up to the airlines...
It _is_ up to the airlines. All the mechanical components on that capitalist
plane were made by free enterprise. Now, why you trust a private corporation
to manufacture jet engines and brakes, and _not_ checking for bombs is pretty
irrational. And besides, when you have _choice_ which, free markets afford
you, you can take a greyhound bus if you're that afraid of the "terrorists".
~~~
ChrisNorstrom
> why you trust a private corporation to manufacture jet engines and brakes,
> and not checking for bombs is pretty irrational.
Naa, Irrational is when you trust airline companies that don't give their
pilots 8 full hours of sleep and bribe officials into giving them passing
safety inspections simply because you've been conditioned from a young age to
assume that the free market would never do anything to jeopardize human lives
in the name of profit. Now that is irrational.
I don't like the TSA either, I'm not trying to protect their wasteful security
theatre, I'm just saying, leaving it up to airlines to somehow collaborate
together to work on increasing safety isn't going to happen on its own.
~~~
smokeyj
Why trust McDonalds to cook a burger? Because money. Crashing planes costs
money. What, now you don't believe in profit motive? You admit it's a security
theater, why defend it? Is TSA presence welcome only at airports, or how about
in your home?
~~~
ChrisNorstrom
<whisper>Pssst. Read my previous comment. No, actually READ it. </whisper>
------
sehugg
DHS is the poster child for mission creep. The White House suggested last year
that they could help track down "circumvention devices" such as game console
mod chips. From the Office of White House's "Copyright Czar":
_“[It] is illegal to import or traffic in devices that can be used to
circumvent technological measures that control access to copyrighted works,”
they wrote. “When DHS discovers the importation of a potential circumvention
device, current law does not authorize DHS to share a sample with a
rightholder to aid CBP in determining whether it is, in fact, a circumvention
device. Allowing DHS to provide a sample would aid enforcement efforts.”_
------
adamrights
They also hired contractors to monitor social networks:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3463850>
------
Revisor
So the argument is that DHS is ineffective and wasteful? I thought the article
would talk about how DHS is dangerous because it systematically dismantles
your freedom in exchange for omnipresent surveillance and faux security.
Then again, I'm only watching it from the outside.
~~~
chc
The security wouldn't be "faux" if the department were efficient and
effective.
------
click170
Link seems down, anyone have a mirror?
------
littleidea
the link isn't just down, the domain is not resolving for me now
~~~
InclinedPlane
Non-authoritative answer: Name: schneier.com Address: 204.11.246.48
------
swiecki
Guidelines ask why is this posted. :(
<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>
------
shingen
I'm always fascinated when writers use the phrase "defeat terrorism." It would
be equally stupid to say: defeat murder. It's the kind of jingoistic bull that
led to the Patriot Act and Homeland Security.
If someone told you the price for living in the most free society possible, is
that 5,000 of your fellow citizens would die annually by terrorism, would that
not be worth it? I would willingly risk my life, given the threat ratio, for
that exchange. Particularly given the counter-terrorism efforts are already
killing that many now.
If someone wants to blow their self up, or randomly stab you in the throat
with a knife, the odds favor they're going to do it. You can try to prevent
it, you can deal with the outcome, sometimes you'll succeed, sometimes you'll
fail - what ultimately matters is that you don't fail big (nukes). That's it.
You battle and deal with terrorism, you don't defeat it. You can't argue with
irrationality or insanity, and someone somewhere is always going to be willing
to commit terrorism.
~~~
meric
>> If someone told you the price for living in the most free society possible,
is that 5,000 of your fellow citizens would die annually by terrorism, would
that not be worth it?
It depends how many people are in that society. If everyone else is too scared
to join you, you might just be the only one and be 1 of the 5000 next year, if
you're lucky this year.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
[not NIST] PHC – password hashing competition – source code - fubarred
https://github.com/bsdphk/phc
======
atoponce
More details at: [https://password-hashing.net/](https://password-
hashing.net/)
Finalists (marked in red) at: [https://password-
hashing.net/candidates.html](https://password-hashing.net/candidates.html)
------
atoponce
Competition at [https://password-hashing.net](https://password-hashing.net)
Finalists (marked in red) at [https://password-
hashing.net/candidates.html](https://password-hashing.net/candidates.html)
------
trebor
I'm happy to see how much success this project has seen. Here's hoping that we
get some demonstrably resilient algorithms out of this.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: One-handed typing aids - stegro32
I broke my wrist, and need to type one-handed for a few weeks. I'm looking for hardware/software recommendations, preferably suitable for an Ubuntu-using developer.<p>Things I'm already considering: http://goo.gl/jtp3J
======
lloydwatkin
Having broken both wrists in separate accidents 2 years apart (ORIF distal
radius fractures with plates installed) I know where you are coming from with
this (also cycling accidents).
If your injury/treatment was like mine then in all honesty its not something
worth worrying about, you'll be able to pick up typing with a single hand fast
enough and after a couple of weeks you'll be able to use fingers to hit things
like shift key (as a developer you'll still be able to type faster than 90% of
the company!).
Over time you'll find you'll be able to do more and more typing with the
injured hand, and by getting blood flowing through it via usage it'll probably
help the healing process.
If you want to ask any questions feel free to contact me via
twitter/email/etc.
~~~
stegro32
Thanks so much (and sorry to take a while to reply) - I'm doing exactly what
you suggested, and it's going pretty well.
The pain in the injured wrist has subsided enough that it's capable of
occasional hunt-n-peck duty, and with that I can manage a pretty decent speed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How big would the Earth by relative to the size of the internet? - dfischer
If the internet was the universe, and the earth was measured in bytes, how many bytes would the earth be relative to the size of the universe?
======
dbrush
Here is the factor for Earth vs. Universe
By approximate age: 3.017
By approximate diameter, using the distance light travels over the approximate
age of the universe compared to the known diameter of earth:
10,172,030,097,215,335,227.548
By approximate amount of energy would probably be more telling; it's telling
me I need bignums.
Edit: I found this page [http://www2.sims.berkeley.edu/research/projects/how-
much-inf...](http://www2.sims.berkeley.edu/research/projects/how-much-
info-2003/internet.htm)
It's from 2002 so it's dated but, taking the diameter factor from above the
earth would be 0.05 bytes, or, less than half a bit... in 2002.
I quit math.
------
dfischer
Well, you'd have to estimate how large the internet is, not how large the
"Universe" is. How much storage is on servers, etc?
Could even go as far as saying private networks are black matter :)
------
ubudesign
not even one byte. of course you can not have anyting smaller then a btye. so
the internet is not as big as it shound be.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Notes on a Pulse Generator Circuit - cushychicken
http://cushychicken.github.io/ckt-notes-pulse-generator/
======
deutronium
I thought this was pretty damn impressive
[https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/3m1bao/13ghz_o...](https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/3m1bao/13ghz_oscillator/)
I didn't know you could make a fairly simple oscillator to generate ~1GHz
frequency.
~~~
cushychicken
I was super pumped to see that as well. Was cool to see how much of an effect
a good power supply had on getting the phase noise under control.
~~~
diymaker
You could try this analog circuit sim -
[http://www.macspice.com](http://www.macspice.com)
~~~
cushychicken
Thanks for the recommendation! I gave macspice a try already and really wasn't
impressed. LTSpice just has much better GUI support. I know it's a terrible
thing to admit on HN, but when it comes to simulation models, a GUI is a
really nice thing to have.
------
cushychicken
Pertinent to my comment about LTSpice - I have to give some credit to the
folks at CircuitLab for giving me a line on their circuit sim software. Much
easier to use than LTSpice, whose GUI is slow to the point of physical pain.
I'll see about writing something more coherent about it in the near future.
Stay tuned.
~~~
compumike
[CircuitLab developer.] Thanks so much Nash! If anyone reading this wants to
give our software a spin, email me your CircuitLab username (mike at
circuitlab dot com) in the next day or so and I'll hook you up with 1 year
free of CircuitLab Pro.
------
nibnib
Has the author swapped collectors and emitters in the first paragraph?
e: actually several times throughout the text it seems.
~~~
cushychicken
It appears so! D'oh. Thanks for pointing that out. I fixed it.
~~~
nibnib
Yep, reads much better now.
------
magnusss
Very nice work! One minor edit: It's Horowitz and Hill.
~~~
cushychicken
Duh! I bet Hall is getting a ton of electronics interview requests now. I'm
such a jerk. :) Thanks for pointing that out.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
This patent application seems coherent. Then, a dedication to 50 Cent. Then... - zach
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20070156594.html
Scroll down to see the description.
======
yubrew
20070156594 - This number refers to a published patent application, which does
not mean that a patent has been granted.
I have a 98% confidence rating that you can only enforce rights from issued
patents. An application means that it has a chance of being issued, but
normally does not have much value until it is actually granted.
When a patent has been granted, you'll see a number similar to this "5,146,634
6923014 0000001" <http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm>
------
dfranke
Looks original and non-obvious to me.
But seriously... has the PTO simply given up trying?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bulletproof demos using Chrome's playback mode - zackbloom
http://dev.hubspot.com/blog/bulletproof-demos
======
gojomo
Anyone know where the recorded content is stored, and whether it's kept
segregated from other cached content? This could be a really interesting
archival format...
~~~
inafield
Even more awesome would be the ability to send the recorded content to
someone.
~~~
masklinn
Yeah that's the first thing I thought of, especially if it's possible to pause
and inspect/introspect the DOM and code, that would make debugging client
issues much easier.
Although just capturing user session would already be nice, better than
forcing people to take videos of their desktop (and with a bit of luck the
file would be much smaller)
~~~
inafield
Exactly. I'm imagining a world where I tell a customer to use a Chrome add-in
that automatically starts recording what they do and uploads it to me and I
can see what is going on.
Even if not that wonderful, just the ability to have QA or fellow developers
send me a file that I can analyze instead of tying up their computer would be
wonderful. Especially when working with remote co-workers.
The problem with video is that I can't inspect their DOM or their console.
~~~
j_s
Don't miss what Google uses:
[http://googletesting.blogspot.com/2011/10/take-bite-out-
of-b...](http://googletesting.blogspot.com/2011/10/take-bite-out-of-bugs-and-
redundant.html)
[http://googletesting.blogspot.com/2011/11/rpf-googles-
record...](http://googletesting.blogspot.com/2011/11/rpf-googles-record-
playback-framework.html)
<http://code.google.com/p/bite-project/>
~~~
inafield
Wow. Thankyou. Made my day and possibly our QA team's day.
------
ryankshaw
I would be interested in recording the actual order of http requests and being
able to replay them on the commandline.
something like open -a "Google Chrome" --args --record-mode --output-file
output.log
then: some-command-that-plays-it-back --infile output.log
does anyone know if something like that exists?
~~~
JoachimSchipper
There exist various proxies that do this; for me, the first Google result for
"proxy record replay http" leads to [http://code.google.com/p/http-
impersonator/wiki/GettingStart...](http://code.google.com/p/http-
impersonator/wiki/GettingStarted).
------
DCoder
_It doesn't record where you click or what you open, just every request as it
moves over the wire._
I am getting quite different results - it records http requests and user input
(keyboard/mouse).
Windows 7 x64, Chrome 25.0.1364.172 m :
# navigate to chrome directory
cd C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\
# run chrome with a new profile
chrome --user-data-dir="../User Data/recording_test" --first-run --record-mode
# use the new chrome profile to browse around
# close chrome
# launch it in playback mode
chrome --user-data-dir="../User Data/recording_test" --playback-mode
# watch disaster ensue as it locks your mouse (not keyboard),
# replays all activity (url bar input, navigation, mouse cursor movements...),
# and doesn't even stop when you alt-tab
# to a different application
It feels unpolished - mouse _scroll_ wasn't recorded, the "translate this
page?" bar wasn't showing up the same way as in the recording, and most
importantly, I managed to switch to a different application and it continued
sending input to that application. HTTP requests did get cached as promised,
and non-cached requests (due to missing scroll event, it clicked on a
different link) resulted in a cache error.
------
mickdarling
Unfortunately my site works directly with embedded Hulu videos and it doesn't
seem like this process can replay those videos from the cache.
I JUST dealt with bad data speeds at SXSW while demoing for @scobleizer so
this would have been great for the future.
------
est
I thought Chrome could record your navigation actions .e.g input URL and click
elements, it turned out to be directly cache of URL contents so you could read
from cache later...
Anyway, cool concept, except it doesn't work with X-Content-Type-Options:
nosniff, or ajax call with timestamp parameters.
------
ErikRogneby
This would be great for capturing usability tests as well.
~~~
Mahn
Not really, if I understand correctly this is capturing only the requests,
"caching" them in a way, so when on playback mode if you do an action that
fires this request, it's fetched from the recorded store.
I think its use is limited to what the article suggests: making sure real life
demos don't break.
------
andrewaylett
There's a similar trick built into fiddler, too, although that's Windows only.
Does anyone know of a cross-platform equivalent for Firefox?
------
Neepy
Any idea what the command is for windows?
start /b "" "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe"
--args --record-mode
doesn't seem to work
~~~
zackbloom
\--args is an option to the OS X open command, you shouldn't need it on
windows. My guess is:
start /b "" "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe"
--record-mode
Report back if it works!
~~~
Neepy
No luck :(
~~~
colonelxc
You can just run the executable, you don't need to call start.
"C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe" --record-
mode
~~~
Neepy
I've tried that also but still no luck. I have the commands in separate bat
files but I wouldn't expect that to affect it, or I might be using the wrong
chrome executable?
------
bdcravens
If you're going to go to the trouble of running something from the terminal
(even if you save time with a bash/batch script), why would you prefer this
over Selenium? With Selenium you can customize the actions, extend using your
favorite language (such as adding pauses or pulling inputs from a database),
and if you use Firefox, you can get the same recording ability (only you can
save the file and can extend via JavaScript)
~~~
ffk
Selenium solves a different problem. With selenium, you record user actions,
and verify properties about the state of the site.
The record/playback feature is designed to make a copy of the content you look
at during a session, allowing you to retrieve it offline at a later time by
revisiting the page (or making equivalent HTTP calls).
Interestingly, if you use both together, you can design a offline-mode reader
for hacker news for use on the train or other disconnected environments. Or,
combine selenium and playback mode to create kick ass demos that are less
likely to fail on weak wifi networks. :)
~~~
bdcravens
True. I hadn't considered situations where the content would change if you
replayed later. For the apps where I'd use this that's never been a use case,
and aside from the cached content, Selenium accomplishes the same and more.
Selenium is typically used for testing and verification, but it's quite useful
as a recording/playback or full-fledged browser automation tool. Another good
one is iMacros.
------
uptown
Very cool. Is there a switch to direct Chrome to ignore the cache and pull
fresh data from the server?
~~~
jakub_g
chrome --disk-cache-size=1 --media-cache-size=1
1 is a size in bytes (must be >0).
------
nsoun
Interesting... I wasn't aware of this, I'll definitely give it a shot.
Thanks for the heads-up!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Narcissists, Psychopaths, & Manipulators: “Virtuous Victim Signaling” Says Study - SQL2219
https://reason.com/2020/07/07/narcissists-psychopaths-and-manipulators-are-more-likely-to-engage-in-virtuous-victim-signaling-says-study/
======
SQL2219
"Moral immunity shields the alleged victim from criticism about the means they
might use to satisfy their demands. In other words, victim status can morally
justify the use of deceit, intimidation, or even violence by alleged victims
to achieve their goals. Relatedly, claiming victim status can lead observers
to hold a person less blameworthy, excusing transgressions, such as the
appropriation of private property or the infliction of pain upon others, that
might otherwise bring condemnation or rebuke. Finally, claiming victim status
elevates the claimant's psychological standing, defined as a subjective sense
of legitimacy or entitlement to speak up."
------
peter_d_sherman
>"The so-called "dark triad" personality traits—Machiavellianism, narcissism,
and psychopathy—lead to characteristics like "self-promotion, emotional
callousness, duplicity, and tendency to take advantage of others," the paper
explains.
And "treated as a composite, the _Dark Triad_ traits were significant
predictors of _virtuous victim_ signaling."
[...]
>"They point out that _virtue signaling_ is defined as "the conspicuous
expression of moral values, done primarily with the intent of enhancing one's
standing within a social group."
Meanwhile, _victim signaling_ "may be used as a social influence tactic that
can motivate recipients of the signal to voluntarily transfer resources to the
signaler," they explain. More from the paper's theoretical background section:
An emerging literature on _competitive victimhood_ documents the prevalence of
victim signaling by various social groups and provides evidence for its
functionality as a resource extraction strategy."
OK, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any of this.
But, there might be some words and terminology here for my 2020 lexicon,
including, but not limited to:
"Competitive Victimhood"
"Dark Triad"
"Moral Immunity"
"Victim Signaling"
"Virtue Signaling"
"Virtuous Victim"
etc.
~~~
ignoramceisblis
Also "real bullying" through "supposed victimhood."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Indemandly – Typeform meets Intercom: Contact forms 2.0 - jeremycs
http://indemandly.com
======
jeremycs
Hey all,
We recently released an early version of indemandly - a free, simple, and
customizable contact form that you can add to your website, social media, &
marketing emails. It takes less than 1min to set up & users are seeing
increases in new inquiries of up to 3x. You can reply to inquiries directly
from your email & they'll automatically be organized in your indemandly
dashboard. Use it for receiving general inquiries, collecting event sign-ups,
or taking booking requests. Easily add a welcome message to highlight a new
feature, promote an upcoming event or webinar, or just say hello in a new way,
because it’s a new day. We're working on adding integrations and more
customization options. Any helpful feedback would be greatly appreciated.
~~~
sw89
Glad to see this on here. My organisation has currently adopted this and we
have seen a massive improvement in our engagement with potential clients. We
are still trying to work out how we can capitalise more from this useful tool.
------
saimiam
OP - I took the liberty of critiquing your landing page with a Before and
After on my personal blog. It's here -
[https://ramachandr.in/cb/#indemandly](https://ramachandr.in/cb/#indemandly)
(it's a self hosted gif and some text; not trying to sign you up for anything)
tl;dw;dr;
I made the following choices in the modified version-
\- Replaced the weak sounding "new best" with "BEST".
\- Converted the blob of undifferentiated text into a list with a list heading
\- Got to "YOU" asap in the list heading.
\- Encouraged people to take action by moving the soft feel good statement
below the CTA and highlighting it.
~~~
jeremycs
Appreciate your feedback!
------
cryptojfc
Installed this on my site and already received a serious prospect contacting
me. Great UX!
------
spyckie2
clicking the link or logo prompts firefox to save a dms file for some reason.
~~~
cavin
Oh, that was a tricky bug! Thank you for report. FIY: Nginx was sending
content-type headers two times, first was application/octet-stream and then
text/html. Chrome/Safari was using last one, Firefox - first one.
------
anat_fried
ok
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Jobs with prolonged standing double the risk of heart disease - Ice_cream_suit
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29020132
======
Ice_cream_suit
Abstract: "While a growing body of research is examining the impacts of
prolonged occupational sitting on cardiovascular and other health risk
factors, relatively little work has examined the effects of occupational
standing.
The objectives of this paper were to examine the relationship between
occupations that require predominantly sitting and those that require
predominantly standing and incident heart disease. A prospective cohort study
combining responses to a population health survey with administrative health-
care records, linked at the individual level, was conducted in Ontario,
Canada. The sample included 7,320 employed labor-market participants (50%
male) working 15 hours a week or more and free of heart disease at baseline.
Incident heart disease was assessed using administrative records over an
approximately 12-year follow-up period (2003–2015). Models adjusted for a wide
range of potential confounding factors.
Occupations involving predominantly standing were associated with an
approximately 2-fold risk of heart disease compared with occupations involving
predominantly sitting. This association was robust to adjustment for other
health, sociodemographic, and work variables.
Cardiovascular risk associated with occupations that involve combinations of
sitting, standing, and walking differed for men and women, with these
occupations associated with lower cardiovascular risk estimates among men but
elevated risk estimates among women."
------
Ice_cream_suit
Full paper:
[https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/1/27/4081581](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/1/27/4081581)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Node.js is the new PHP - nmerouze
http://boldr.net/node-js-new-php
======
andreasklinger
Isn't the strength of PHP the easy to learn and easy install on cheap shared
hosts and the strong killer apps like wordpress/magento/drupal/etc ?
Given the arguments in the article: Isn't Node.js rather the new RubyOnRails ?
Rails had similar hype patterns and unclear long term usecases when they
launched the blog video. (imho)
~~~
Pickels
Except Node.js isn't a framework for building websites/web applications.
Also from the article: You'll not have headaches regarding concurrency (at
first), but you'll have them when dealing with callbacks. For some cases I
almost ended up with one callback per line, that's crazy!
People that write stuff like that are very ignorant and are probably trying to
write Javascript like they write their Java.
~~~
nmerouze
This example comes from a popular library [https://github.com/christkv/node-
mongodb-native/blob/master/...](https://github.com/christkv/node-mongodb-
native/blob/master/examples/blog.js)
------
shtylman
"The parallel between PHP and Node.js is evident."
Just because you say something doesn't make it true. I found nothing in the
article really linking the two other both being used for "web stuff".
Everything else was either a design choice or still being evolved (nothing is
magically perfect on day one).
PHP did something great for web development in a time when most people just
wrote static sites. Node.js did something great by allowing people to write
high concurrent/websocket apps with ease (or at least bringing this to their
attention).
------
gexla
"And I think it's really important to not fall into the trap of the hype using
Node.js for everything"
Don't worry, I think the lack of the sort of standard library you would find
in PHP or Ruby would keep people from considering using Node for "everything."
;)
------
jcoffey
The title smacks a bit of link bait
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Devices can reduce fibers produced in laundry cycle by up to 80% - elorant
https://phys.org/news/2020-07-devices-fibers-laundry.html
======
tomohawk
You can put a mesh bag on the washer discharge to catch fibers before they go
down the drain. Some people use nylon stockings, but the mesh used as a sock
around drain tile piping works very well. It can be bought in bulk at big box
home improvement stores.
It's amazing how much fiber this will catch. If you have a septic system,
keeping the synthetic fibers out of it is a must.
------
_xerces_
That was a pretty vague and unfulfilling article. No mention of what these
mysterious "devices" are or what they look like.
~~~
RunningDroid
The graphical abstract on sciencedirect¹ lists some product names, so the
'devices' are apparently all available for purchase.
¹: [https://ars.els-
cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S00489697203393...](https://ars.els-
cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0048969720339346-ga1.jpg)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using Artificial Intelligence to Engineer Materials’ Properties - prostoalex
http://news.mit.edu/2019/artificial-intelligence-engineer-microchips-0211
======
anton_tarasenko
Milton Friedman on doing this in the 1940s:[1]
> One of my problems was to provide statistical advice to the people who were
> developing metals to be used in the blades of turbines. I had an enormous
> amount of data, and I had to construct a regression with five or six
> different variables having to do with the chemical composition of the
> metals.
> We estimated that it would take us three months to solve this problem using
> our desk calculators. In the whole country there was only one calculator—one
> computer, if you want to call it that—which could do this problem more
> quickly.
> It was up at Harvard. It wasn’t electronic. It was a whole collection of IBM
> card sorters. It was in a big, air-conditioned gymnasium, a tremendous
> collection of sorters all linked by wires. It did our problem for us in
> forty hours.
As he mentioned elsewhere, it did not work as expected back then.
[1]
[https://miltonfriedman.hoover.org/friedman_images/Collection...](https://miltonfriedman.hoover.org/friedman_images/Collections/2016c21/Stanford_01_01_1996.pdf)
------
ArtWomb
The prediction algorithm is cool. But call me a tad skeptical. Repeated
application of elastic strains results in creep occurring after 1000s of
cycles does it not?
AI research into the Materials Genome gets attention. But the problem of
discovery still seems secondary to the primary issue. Getting innovations out
of laboratories and into manufacturing.
~~~
rjsw
... and you won't get any funding unless you are working on something like the
Materials Genome.
Trying to get innovations into industry just isn't sexy enough.
------
wenc
I don't know much about materials engineering, but it's not clear from the
article how Artificial Intelligence (which I'm assuming means Neural Networks)
is used. Is it to simulate different strains? Or to correlate a set of
parameters to final product properties?
I'm aware of efforts in statistical product design, where known mixtures,
manufacturing parameters, etc. are collected into a database, and design-of-
experiments is used to extrapolate into new products with properties that have
never been made before. But this is mostly accomplished using statistics and
design of experiments.
~~~
borkt
Agreed - this just seems to be an extension of the calculator story listed
above, except using machine learning. Why wouldn't you use state of the art
technology (including those labeled as AI) to help push any field forward?
~~~
sgt101
looking at the paper in PNAS I think that there is a clever arrangement and
application of deep nets in play here. As ever the trick is to couple deep
domain understanding to clever application of AI techniques.
~~~
wenc
From what I gathered from the paper -- again I'm not an expert on what they're
doing -- could the NN model have been replaced by any number of more
parsimonious nonlinear regressors? (Not that an NN isn't a valid choice -- it
is often used as a nonlinear regression model, but it is one of many valid
choices in this scenario.)
Which prompts the next question: does anything that uses NNs warrant the term
AI?
The use of NN here seems to be that of a model surrogate (i.e. model
reduction).
There's no perception problem, logic problem, decision problem, or anything
that we commonly associate with "intelligence".
~~~
sgt101
Well. Maybe it could be neater (in an information theoretic sense) but DNNs
are a bit fuzzy on that, and if you have modern compute, who cares? I think
that there's many questions about the validation of machine learning models
which mean that your question "could the NN model have been replaced by any
number of more parsimonious nonlinear regressors?" is open, in the sense - we
don't have a sharp way of deciding which is best, because one out of 100
million isn't informative for statistical reasoning.
The other question "does anything that uses NNs warrant the term AI?" is very,
very difficult. Because as Marvin Minskey said "intelligence is a portmanteau
term" by which he meant overloaded. It's full of meaning and non specific, so
I like to say that AI is about technology and capability and not an
association with human or animal cognition - which is the domain of Artificial
Intelligence proper.
~~~
wenc
To the first point, I believe it's a spectrum.
To a practitioner, "better" can be defined along well-known dimensions.
Suppose you know your data lies more or less on a straight line -- you could
fit a NN model or a run a linear regression. In this scenario, linear
regression would be the "better" choice for some widely-accepted measures of
"better" (interpretability, computational efficiency, parsimony,
regularizability, etc.).
One almost never chooses NN just for the sake of choosing NN... there are
well-understood trade-offs. For instance, it is widely known that NN's
generally require a larger amount of data than classical/statistical
algorithms for weights to converge -- mostly because it's fitting a more
general function than most classical ML algorithms. (The reason NNs have begun
to show the results they have (vs in the 1990s) isn't just because we have
more compute than before or that the theory has advanced significantly; it's
also because we have more a lot more data to fit the more general function
with.)
To the second point, I can see the point, but I wonder if the semantic meaning
of the term is eroded by being overly encompassing. We could say a calculator
implements AI.
~~~
sgt101
Agree about data. Do you really think theory hasadvanced?
~~~
wenc
In my opinion fundamental NN theory hasn’t really advanced significantly since
the 1990s. I guess it was phrased ambiguously in my comment
But there has been a great deal of new techniques that make NN work better in
practice like dropout, ReLU for vanishing gradients, CNNs and GANs for
specific problem types, transfer learning, etc. The recent work with Neural
ODEs show that the field is advancing in terms of ideas.
This is a good trajectory IMO. Many engineering fields work this way — find
out new ways of doing things that work and then take a step back to see if
there’s anything fundamental that links everything together. Practice precedes
theory.
------
shoyer
Here's a link to the actual article in PNAS:
[https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/02/14/1818555116](https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/02/14/1818555116)
~~~
wenc
Ok, so here's where they use NN models:
_" Although ab initio calculations such as those involving many-body
corrections can provide accurate energy-band results, the scope of such
calculations is somewhat limited to about 1,000 strain points because of high
computational cost. On the other hand, by discretizing ε with a regular grid
comprising 20 nodes separated at each 1% strain interval over the strain range
of −10 to +10%, the computational model would entail about 108 band
structures, up to five orders of magnitude higher computational requirement
than what can be reasonably achieved presently. To overcome these
difficulties, we present here a general method that combines machine learning
(ML) and ab initio calculations to identify pathways to ESE. This method
invokes artificial neural networks (NNs) to predict, to a reasonable degree of
accuracy, material properties as functions of the various input strain
combinations on the basis of only a limited amount of data."_
Further down:
_" We aim to describe the electronic bandgap and band structure as functions
of strain by training ML models on first-principles density-functional theory
(DFT) data. This approach leads to reasonably accurate training with much
fewer computed data than fine-grid ab initio calculations and a fast
evaluation time."_
\--
If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like they _already have a_ high-
fidelity 1st-principles model that is computationally intractable to solve at
scale, so they are using ML techniques to create an surrogate model that is
computationally more tractable -- the AI modeling is a model reduction
exercise.
~~~
leplen
That's a pretty good summary. There are many different sets of approximations
and simulation techniques that make different trade-offs of accuracy/scale.
They're essentially using outputs of a higher-fidelity model to tune the free
parameters of a lower fidelity model, and using ML to explore the parameter
space efficiently.
The higher fidelity model is itself still an approximation, but there's a lot
of interest in this approach and quite a few groups doing work like this
targeted towards various material properties, since there just isn't nanoscale
experimental data to train models that depend on nanoscale material features.
~~~
steve_musk
Agreed, although I would hesitate to call the PBE functional a “first
principles” model.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Android Chief Andy Rubin Sends His First Tweet — And It’s Aimed At Steve Jobs - tzury
http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/19/andy-rubin-twitter/
======
apl
That's all great and witty and so on.
But his pseudo-definition of "free" is rather misleading. I don't think Jobs
argues that Android isn't free in the sense of being closed-source, or being
sold for money, or not being available on most devices. It is. I know that I
can compile it right now, from my command line. I know that I wouldn't have to
spend any money. I know that, with enough tinkering, I can put it on my iPhone
or whatever.
In the real world, on the other hand, this free Android doesn't exist. When I
buy a Samsung or HTC or Motorola Android phone, I don't get plain vanilla
Android - I get a distorted version full of crap and software I neither need
nor want. In the real world, Android is almost never the pure version Rubin
wants it to be. It's a weird hybrid, coerced into submission by Verizon,
Motorola and friends. The jailbreak community for Android is as large as the
one for the iPhone, meaning that in a very import sense, real-world Android is
about as open as iOS and webOS.
I don't care about theoretical openness. That's just rhetorics. Jobs merely
points that out.
~~~
bad_user
Let me put it this way:
With an iPhone you've got a shiny device that just works and doesn't come with
shit installed and that you cannot tinker with.
With an Android you've got a shiny device that many times comes with shit
installed and that you cannot tinker with (depending on the manufacturer).
The difference: you can build your own unlocked Android device, and because of
competition there will be phone manufacturers that will do just that.
Windows PCs aren't locked, and this came to be mostly due to harsh
competition, or am I missing something? Don't you think the likes of Compaq/HP
would've rather sold locked devices akin to gaming consoles (also popular at
that time)?
You're saying it is "theoretical openness"; I'm saying the market is too young
for Android's openness to unravel.
~~~
martythemaniak
Just because Apple makes it, doesn't mean it's not shit. I invite you to try
and remove their shitty stock app, or weather app or any of the other numerous
shitty little apps the iPhone comes with.
~~~
schultzor
They might be basic, but I think the stock iPhone apps are a long way from
being shitty in the same sense as Sprint's bundled NASCAR app.
~~~
ZeroGravitas
Is this just a class thing? What does the NASCAR app do that's so objectional
except be possibly unwanted by the kind of person who doesn't object to a
stocks app.
I'm not in the US, but the fact that no-one even bothers to advance any actual
reason for not wanting it beyond it being "NASCAR" leads me to assume it's
plain old snobbery.
------
jakevoytko
If you lack the dependencies, bootstrapping this command is also a whimsical
one-liner:
sudo apt-get install git-core wget && mkdir -p ~/bin && export PATH=$PATH:~/bin \
&& wget http://android.git.kernel.org/repo && chmod a+x ./repo \
&& mv ./repo ~/bin && mkdir android && cd android \
&& repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git \
; repo sync ; make
I ran this on an Ubuntu 9.04 installation inside of VirtualBox. Total dollars
spent between the VM, OS, GNU toolkit, package manager, external programs,
build environment, and the Android source code: $0.00. I never stop being
surprised that giving software away for free is a viable business model for so
many different companies.
------
demallien
Hmmm, a couple of points for Andy:
1) I just tried that line out on my Fedora machine - it doesn't work, doesn't
know what repo is.
2) after running 'make' does my computer turn into an Android device?
3) If not, what is the hardware I have to use
4) where are the instructions for loading the newly compiled code onto my
device - I see a make, but no make install... I mean I like binaries as much
as the next geek, but they aren't terribly interesting unless they, you know,
run.
5) I tried loading the binary on my device, but it refused - something about
unauthenticated code - what should I do to use your wonderful open system?
OK, obviously I'm trolling a little here, but Andy's tweet is every bit as
much a troll. I doubt very much that RMS agrees with Andy as to the openness
of Android... In fact, I just went and looked, here's his thoughts on the
subject:
_Android's source code is free software, but in many phones the binaries of
Android are not free, because the phones are set up to refuse to run modified
versions if the user installs them. [This practice is called ‘tivoization’,
named after the product that pioneered it.] If the software in Android were
under version 3 of the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL), users would be
guaranteed the freedom to install their own modified versions.
Even when Android is not tivoized, it needs non-free drivers or firmware to
run. As far as I know, no smartphone is made that can be run without
proprietary software. None respects its users' freedom.
The shortest path to making it possible to run a smartphone without non-free
software is to reverse engineer those non-free drivers or firmware and write
free replacements_ \- RMS
So that would be a 'no'
~~~
davidw
Android is really the best hope for a free and open mobile experience though,
at this point. It may not be 100% RMS approved, but it's fairly close, and the
weight of Google means it is actually getting traction, unlike, say, OpenMoko.
I guess MeeGo or something might count too, but that all seems quite vague at
this point.
I think that, with time, we'll see more truly open, Nexus One style phones. I
really wish they hadn't given it up so easily: something like that would be
competitive in Europe where it's much more common to pay full price for an
unlocked phone.
Sometimes, I think people forget just how cool open source is in terms of
being able to take stuff and hack on it.
~~~
demallien
You are right that it's the best that we have at the moment, but from where
I'm standing, openness in phones is decreasing, not increasing - each new
generation of Android devices seems to contain more and more locked-down
proprietry code.
Maybe I'm being naive, but when I hear 'open' I'm thinking that that means
that if I don't like a small part of my otherwise great smartphone, I can go
in and modify the code that handles that specific part, compile it, and
download the modified code onto my phone so that it does what it wants. That
is several orders of magnitude of effort away from today's reality of:
\- find a security flaw
\- design an exploit of the security flaw so that I can root my device
\- extract the drivers from the binary so that I can add them back into my new
image after recompiling
\- modify code and compile
\- reload new image onto phone
I just feel that the open source community is getting sucked in to supporting
this solution that is dragging us away from what would truly be an open
platform. If Rubin was being honest about an 'open' Android, it would be under
GPLv3, as RMS says. It's not, and the reason it isn;t is because it is not
open. Rubin is spinning this, and I do not respect that.
~~~
davidw
The Apache license is liberal and open, and very much free. RMS doesn't like
the fact that you can build proprietary stuff on top of it, but sometimes you
need that freedom in order to involve companies in your community.
I agree that we're still not seeing manufacturers do quite what we'd like, but
I think it'll come with time, most likely in places that are not the United
States: Europe and China most likely.
And, to be clear, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that it's going to
come from Apple.
~~~
Locke1689
This is a logical fallacy -- you define and use two definitions of the word
"free" in the same context. On the one hand you associate freedom with RMS's
context, which must include the ability to actually run the free code. RMS
views the software and the specialized hardware it runs on as one and the same
-- inseparable in freedom. In the sentence just before it, though, you argue
that freedom is simply the Apache license as applied to software. In fact,
what you are actually arguing begs the question because you assert that the
software is free because it is under the Apache license, but we know that the
Apache license is free because the software is liberal and open, as defined by
the Apache license.
Before you can approach whether or not the software is free you must first
define what free is. The parent poster is relatively safe in this because he
provides RMS's definition of free, which is encoded in the GPLv3. Until you
provide a similar definition I don't think one can state the software is
either free or unfree.
_I agree that we're still not seeing manufacturers do quite what we'd like,
but I think it'll come with time, most likely in places that are not the
United States: Europe and China most likely.
And, to be clear, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that it's going to
come from Apple._
I think this is just speculation.
~~~
davidw
> define what free is.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Definition> \- Android qualifies,
except for a few bits and pieces.
> I think this is just speculation.
I'd bet a lot of money on it. Apple has a long, long history of making
beautiful, innovative, forward-thinking, and fairly locked down products, from
the Mac onwards.
~~~
Locke1689
_<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Definition> \- Android qualifies,
except for a few bits and pieces._
OK, but you admit that your definition of free isn't everyone's definition of
free. To be even more precise, the OSI itself doesn't even call that
definition free, they call it 'open source.' The FSF, in fact, has a contrary
definition that they maintain is actually free software. Both parties refer to
the OSI as 'open source' and the FSF as 'free.'
This leads in to the main problem that Google/Android have -- when they market
Android as being open they don't really define what open is. It is _prima
facie_ true that Android is not open on all fronts, so the question is really
what Google considers "open" to mean.
Jobs put this observation into an interesting context because it's important
to note that a lot of software in the iPhone is free as well. In the manual
you will find a list (quite a long one) of all the GPL and BSD licensed
software included inside the iPhone. The question, then, isn't who is open and
who is closed, but what the definition of 'open' is and who more closely
abides by it.
~~~
bad_user
OK, but you admit that your definition of free isn't
everyone's definition of free
No shit ... my definition of "free" includes me distributing the code I made
however I want.
If it where for me I would include a new rule in the OSI definition that
excludes GPL from being called "open source", because its copyleft extends to
the whole package that links to GPL pieces, and for me this is not "free".
Both parties refer to the OSI as 'open source' and the
FSF as 'free.'
The Apache license has been approved as "Free Software", which is by no means
the same as "free" ... an English word that you cannot trademark.
It is prima facie true that Android is not open on all
fronts
In my definition of "open" that doesn't include forcing the phone
manufacturers to not build locked phones.
If my voice doesn't matter (I'm a nobody) here's the voice of Linus Torvalds
(you know, the guy without whom you can't speak about Linux):
[Stallman] calls it "tivoization", but that's a word he
has made up, and a term I find offensive, so I don't
choose to use it. It's offensive because Tivo never did
anything wrong, and the FSF even acknowledged that. The
fact that they do their hardware and have some DRM
issues with the content producers and thus want to
protect the integrity of that hardware.
The kernel license covers the *kernel*. It does not
cover boot loaders and hardware, and as far as I'm
concerned, people who make their own hardware can
design them any which way they want. Whether that means
"booting only a specific kernel" or "sharks with
lasers", I don't care.
And I don't care about what Jobs says, the real question is: can you build
your own iOS phone? can you participate in its development (like contributing
bug fixes)? Can you choose phones from multiple manufacturers and multiple
carriers? Can you install your own apps on it without going through that
certification shit-hole?
No? Well Android is a lot more open, regardless of definition.
------
pilif
What is all this proclaimed openness worth if it still boils down to
exploiting security systems if you want to run that system you just modified?
Of all the android devices currently available, the N1 (which is around a year
old and getting outpaced by newer devices) is the only one that even remotely
allows you to play with it in a truly open way.
Open isn't "it's able to run mostly-google-certified apps". Open is: Let me
modify this OS here and upload it to that device there.
Open isn't being unable to uninstall bloatware and trialware put in place by
carriers to get a couple of extra bucks.
Open isn't not being able to use all the features of a handset/os just because
a carrier decided they don't like the feature (with no official way of turning
the functionality back on)
~~~
bad_user
> _What is all this proclaimed openness worth if it still boils down to
> exploiting security systems if you want to run that system you just
> modified?_
Yes, because everybody can make an Android phone, even if it's too technically
challenging: there will always be smaller companies that will compete on
openness.
HTC, Motorolla, Samsung are competing on features, but just wait another 2 or
3 iterations.
At least Android (both the OS and the Marketplace) gives you this possibility.
~~~
pilif
but to really make a compelling Android phone, you'd also need the google apps
(even if it's just for the Android Market, or now the c2d services and who
knows what other features will require the google tools later on).
To get these, you have to agree to some licensing terms with Google. The terms
are not publically disclosed and for what we know, it's Google forcing these
security-features into these devices.
Android is all but open.
~~~
nuclear_eclipse
_Android_ is completely open; it's Apache licensed and freely available and
freely redistributable. The Google apps, the device drivers, and the phones
themselves _are not_.
There is a difference. They are not all considered "Android". You can very
easily live without any of those closed features if you so desire. Buy my
Openmoko Freerunner from me, and you can run a 100% open Android system. You
can even find or make replacement applications for all of the proprietary
Google apps if you want to.
~~~
pilif
I completely agree with what you are saying. But:
Without the Google Tools, the experience you would get on that device is
subpar compared to what a device with the Google Tools would provide.
It's not the the (excellent) Gmail app we are talking about.
First and foremost, it's the Andorid Market.
I know that it's possible to install any .apk on a device, but you'd need to
get them. As it stands now, most of the better-known Android applications are
only available on the Android Marketplace.
So without the Google tools you don't just lose the few Google Apps (Google
Talk, Gmail, Google Voice), but also most of the Android Apps currently
available.
And it doesn't stop there. In Froyo, Google added the Cloud-to-Device API
(that's the c2d I was referring to) which provides about the same
functionality as Apples background notifications.
That, too, requires the Android Market, so a non-google-device loses that
functionality as well.
This is just one feature, but it shows a trend of Google being willing to
couple core API and system components to the availability of the Google tools,
so you just plain don't know whether pure free Android will continue to be
something you can put on a device you want to be competitive with (if any
device without the Android Market can be called that nowadays even)
~~~
MrScruff
I think this is a very good point. While at some point in the future it will
likely be possible to buy 'beige box' phone hardware and run a hand built
version of Android on it, it will in actual usage be a very different beast to
the devices being peddled by Motorola & HTC because of the missing access to
the propriety Google apps and services.
So if the 'Google certified' version of Android wins, I'm not sure how that is
good for anyone other than installing Google as the Microsoft of the mobile
age. In that scenario, I'm not sure why I should be rooting for one dictator
over another, other than that at least one has taste.
------
awakeasleep
Hm.. He didn't actually respond to Mr. Jobs, though-- right?
Mr. Jobs said that the issue of openness was a side issue to the real issue of
fragmentation/integration, iirc.
So regardless of the accuracy of that statement, a response would have to
address that point.
~~~
dasil003
Jobs is just pulling a calculated PR move of framing the conversation. If you
address "fragmentation/integration" then he's already won, because the way
it's worded is in Apple's favor. What Andy failed to do is shift the language
back to something both favorable and _understandable_ , such as "actually it's
about choice vs dictatorship".
------
MrScruff
Wonder why he left out the 'make install'? Oh, right...
------
lpgauth
Oh common.
Openness != Open Source
"Don't worry dad, you can remove those pre-installed apps from your carrier by
re-building the OS." Right.
------
sahaj
it's obvious what jobs is doing here. he's throwing an opinion to build public
consensus/sides-line on (doesn't matter if it's wrong or right). this is
exactly what news stations like FOX and such do.
------
snotrockets
My definition of open is more relaxed: it's open if you can extend and change
it without getting permission first.
------
rimantas
Well, if that defines typical user experience, Apple has little to fear.
------
jscore
Touché
------
GHFigs
Note the absence of 'make money;'.
~~~
GHFigs
Note the absence of 'make money;'.
Edit: Apparently some of you are either offended by money or have mistaken
this for a joke. My bad in either case. I was (and am) unable to think of a
way to point to the proverbial elephant in the room without sounding at least
a little bit smarmy.
I am not an uncomprehending oaf here. I can look at this and say "Oh, neat!",
too, but if this is to be taken as a reaction to Jobs's criticism, then I
don't think you can escape the context of that criticism. Jobs did not say
"open is not neat", he said "open does not always win"--where "winning" is
inescapably to do with profit--and this, I believe, only serves to clarify
what exactly does not win without actually refuting the claim. "Open" is not a
panacea. It is not magic pixie dust that turns shit into gold. It's a cop out
answer to the tough question of how do you build a great product, and it makes
correspondingly little money for Google. If you were in Jobs's position would
you not take this as a sign that your approach--the approach which relies
dramatically less on partner companies not dropping the ball and that has
already made you money hand over fist--is one to have greater confidence in?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
PinBuddy – Google Chrome extension for the Pinboard bookmarking service - pawelgrzybek
https://pawelgrzybek.com/i-built-a-thing-pinbuddy/
======
darekkay
Did you reach out to Maciej to include it on Pinboard as an unofficial
extension? I think many users would find it useful (I'm not using Pinboard
myself).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Huawei: 5G Is About Capacity, Not Speed: One-on-one with CTO Paul Scanlan - Lind5
https://semiengineering.com/where-5g-makes-sense-and-where-it-doesnt/
======
Arbalest
This statement seems braindead and markety:
I have a 5G phone, and I’ve had it since the end of last year. I suddenly
realized that something was different about it. The operator didn’t tell me
they had just enabled 5G. I just noticed, especially when I was sending
messages, that it was lightning fast.
If no one else has 5G phone, what's that, no contention? Despite the fact that
5G is about tackling contention, this was going to be true anyway. No way that
in China everyone has gotten a 5G phone already, and won't be the case for
some time either. Remember people need to be able to afford them too.
Based on the title though, the thing about China and 5G is that China has
masses of dense cities that aren't so prevalent elsewhere. So tackling
contention is going to be a major driver.
------
lookdangerous
Does anybody have a good primer for what 5G tech is, in a nutshell?
~~~
Lind5
This may be useful
[https://semiengineering.com/knowledge_centers/communications...](https://semiengineering.com/knowledge_centers/communications-
io/communications-systems/wireless/5g/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is SEO Dead? - flashinfremont
http://www.startupwhisperer.com/2010/04/is-seo-dead.html
======
sunkencity
SEO is not dead it's just been entered by players with more money to spend for
each search than this author. It's pretty irritating that so many searches on
google are compromised by pseudo pages that contain shit and a link to what
you are looking for. These companies mine google for searches where it's easy
to get into the top 10 and then utilize their content farms to spew garbage on
the net. It will be interesting to see what google can do to combat this.
search results have really taken a turn for the worse in 2010.
~~~
sabat
The hope I can give you: Google employs a pretty smart guy, Matt Cutts, who
heads a team of other smart people dedicated to breaking the problem you're
complaining about. It's in Google's best interest, because if search results
return crap, we'd all find something else. Good help us, we'd end up using
Cuil or that Wolfram thing or something.
~~~
mixmax
Or duckduckgo
~~~
sabat
DuckDuckGo! I have to check that out. Keep hearing about it.
------
randfish
In 2010, search engine traffic continued to rise aggressively. More searches
have been conducted each month, more people are using search engines each
month. The growth may not be as stratospheric as Facebook's, but the rise of
social media has not in any way affected the fortunes of web search.
Until I can use Facebook to find everything I need and it does a much better
job than Google, I can't see how they're going to kill SEO... That, and SMM
(Social Media Marketing) is essentially an offshoot of SEO and something web
marketers pioneered when they realized they could get SEO value from it (back
in 2004-2005 before "social media" was a buzzword).
Danny Sullivan has written excellently on this topic many times:
[http://searchengineland.com/an-open-letter-to-derek-
powazek-...](http://searchengineland.com/an-open-letter-to-derek-powazek-on-
the-value-of-seo-27680) [http://searchengineland.com/is-seo-
dead-1997-prediction-meet...](http://searchengineland.com/is-seo-
dead-1997-prediction-meet-2009-reality-32113)
------
dasil003
No, it's not. Social networking and traditional search are orthogonal. Of
course Google wants a piece of that action, because it's obvious that social
networking traffic is big, and has more growth potential than traditional
search at this point. But the value of ad inventory on Facebook is absolute
horseshit, so it's not as if they'll be dwarfing Google profits any time soon.
No amount of social features can replace search, and search will always be
more intentioned then the kind of viral loop that Facebook has made a science
of.
------
liberro
Search engine traffic is and always will be the best traffic source as it is
most targeted. But the worst is a lot of spam that google is showing more and
more often...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GCP PubSub & CloudSQL are Down - nojvek
https://status.cloud.google.com/incident/cloud-pubsub/19001
======
nojvek
> We are experiencing an issue with Cloud PubSub beginning at 2019-05-20 21:35
> US/Pacific. Current data indicates that approximately 1% of publish
> operations globally (15% publish operations in asia-northeast2) and
> approximately 20~25% of various types of admin operations (i.e. CreateTopic)
> are affected by this issue. For everyone who is affected, we apologize for
> the disruption. We will provide an update by Monday, 2019-05-20 22:45
> US/Pacific with current details.
> Further investigation indicates that approximately 3% pull and 5% publish
> operations globally are seeing 5xx and 499 errors. Various admin operations
> like CreateTopic and DeleteTopic are also seeing >50% errors.
This is a pretty huge failure, would be interesting to see the PostMortem
------
xerxes901
Our application is calling GetTopic on a whole bunch of topics at startup to
ensure that they were already created, so even though the publish error rate
was only 1%, the app couldn't start because it kept failing the GetTopic calls
:/
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Internet of Things Is Creating 1984's National Camera Surveillance Network - nickgrosvenor
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2019/07/20/the-internet-of-things-is-creating-1984s-national-camera-surveillance-network/#568e6dba2331
======
michelinman
UK here. Already done.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
First Preview of Android N: Developer APIs and Tools - krat
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2016/03/first-preview-of-android-n-developer.html
======
ubertaco
Woah:
>Improved Java 8 language support - We’re excited to bring Java 8 language
features to Android. With Android's Jack compiler, you can now use many
popular Java 8 language features, including lambdas and more, on Android
versions as far back as Gingerbread. The new features help reduce boilerplate
code. For example, lambdas can replace anonymous inner classes when providing
event listeners. Some Java 8 language features --like default and static
methods, streams, and functional interfaces -- are also now available on N and
above. With Jack, we’re looking forward to tracking the Java language more
closely while maintaining backward compatibility.
~~~
joelhaasnoot
I find the fact that streams and functional interfaces are not backwards
compatible almost a deal breaker. Using Java 8 streams makes so many things
easier that once you start using it, there's no going back. Now you're not
going to be able to use it in production till 2019.
~~~
richdougherty
When you say "not backwards compatible" do you mean that the streams and
functional interfaces aren't compatible with Java in Android N or do you mean
that they're not being to be ported to previous versions of Android?
~~~
pas
Maybe in general, Java 8 generated bytecode won't run on earlier JVMs, but a
lot of shops are still on Java 6/7\. (Allegedly.)
------
pjmlp
Besides finally saying something about Java support, I found other items
interesting.
ART will recompile applications based on profiling data.
Introduction of support to hardware keystores, with the mention that one use
case is to prevent jailbreaking.
Prevent the NDK users that ignored the documentation and linked to non
official platform libraries to keep doing that.
~~~
blinkingled
> ART will recompile applications based on profiling data.
They went back to having a JIT in addition to AOT - which means there is no
AOT when the app is installed. When the device is idle/charging then AOT will
selectively precompile the used portions of the app and optimize it further
using the profiling data. So faster app installs (boon for FDE devices with
slow NAND write speeds) and no optimizing apps step after system update.
~~~
BinaryIdiot
> no optimizing apps step after system update.
That is fantastic news. Every single time my Nexus 6P gets an update it feels
like it takes at least 15 minutes to "optimize apps". Every. Single. Update.
~~~
blinkingled
The effect will be even more amazing for non-nexus/carrier devices with
bloatware - my work phone (VZW M8) just got Marshmallow and it took couple
hours to complete - most of the time was spent on twice optimizing 303 apps!
(Only 30-35 out of those are things I installed.)
~~~
curt15
Well, those devices rarely get updates anyway.
------
trequartista
Extremely interested in the multi-window support. With phone screens getting
bigger than ever, this could be a very useful feature for multi-tasking
~~~
smrtinsert
I found Samsungs implementation very useful on my Galaxy Tab S 10.5. I would
read a pdf for example and take notes in the other. I tried using it for
simple development as well, running a local dev server. Unfortunately js ides
were still lacking on Android last time I tried, but it's clearly something
that could be improved.
Definitely super excited for Android itself to have this feature.
------
RivieraKid
I wish they'd add grouping to the window switcher, something similar to what's
in WebOS. Because it's somewhat difficult to implement tabs without cluttering
the UI in appssuch as web browesers, reddit clients, mail clients, etc.
------
Wonnk13
the $150 discount on Pixel C is really telling. It's clear that revenue is
higher for tablet optimized apps and games and Android really needs to step up
to compete with Apple.
I'm just a hobby developer, but the last four-ish months have been really
exciting. There's a been ton released and polished in the developer console
alone.
------
riskable
I was really hoping for something more exciting. Like maybe native support for
a new, different language (like Apple did with Swift).
It would be absolutely amazing if Google came out with a mechanism for
building native apps in, say, Rust.
~~~
haneefmubarak
To do that, all they'd really need to do is have a mechanism to build native
apps in C, after which various language communities would be able to write
simple wrappers that would allow them to use said C API.
To an extent, that partially exists in the form of Android NDK, but that's not
really a full solution. If and when Google makes it possible to easily create
your entire app natively (with a clean C API), then you ought to see a surge
of libraries/toolkits/frameworks coming out that will enable you to write
Android apps in most common languages (Rust likely included).
~~~
habosa
It's easy to run other languages on Android (see Go binaries). It would be a
huge effort (and some would say a distraction) to port the Android SDK to
another language. It would also fragment the developer ecosystem if that
language was not compatible with Java libraries (reducing your choices to
Scala, Clojure, etc).
While the NDK is hard to use, it is enough to enable alternate modes of
Android development. For instance with Unity you can develop and Android app
using C# and the Unity graphical editor. That's a very powerful option for
certain classes of apps.
~~~
haneefmubarak
OTOH, that same fragmentation also means competition. Allowing for multiple
independent languages to run on the platform means a plethora of developers to
whom the platform is now accessible.
Having an API that is easy to use would really open up the ecosystem. Also,
having much faster, machine targeted code (ie: compiled with CPU architecture
and model specific optimizations and instructions) in C, C++, Rust, Go, etc.
would mean better performance and less battery usage in some apps, which
overall would translate to a superior user experience.
~~~
kllrnohj
> which overall would translate to a superior user experience.
Only for users of devices that the dev bothered to put out binaries for. I
guarantee you most devs that use the NDK are not building for all 8 ABIs that
the NDK supports. ARMv7-neon may be the most common arch but it is far, far
from the only one.
------
fulafel
I wonder why the Pixel C developer discount is us-only.
------
AdmiralAsshat
I'm disappointed to see that it will take Android N for the Doze feature to be
practical [0]. As it currently stands, Doze only activates when the device is
stationary. My phone never leaves my pocket, since I'm paranoid about setting
it down, so the gyrometer being engaged is enough to prevent Doze from
triggering.
[0] [http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/03/09/android-n-feature-
sp...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/03/09/android-n-feature-spotlight-
doze-will-now-work-whenever-the-screen-is-off-even-when-the-device-isnt-
stationary/)
~~~
kllrnohj
You sleep with your phone in your pocket?
That's really the thing doze is great at. If you forget to charge your phone,
you wake up with still decent amount of battery left. Or for tablets sitting
around on tables/desks.
~~~
AdmiralAsshat
No, I don't, but I don't often forget to hook up my phone to the charger.
I _do_ however, sit/stand at my desk for 8-9 hours a day and maybe pull the
phone out less than once an hour. I would like the phone to be in Doze mode
when it's in my pocket, rather than forcing me to have to put it on my desk.
As I said, I don't like leaving it unattended, even if it's simply to step
away for a few minutes to the watercooler.
~~~
kllrnohj
Sounds more like you want a setting of "syncing is not important to me"
Doze backs off sync period, trading timeliness for battery life. That's why
significant motion prevents it from happening, it assumes that if it's on your
person then syncing is important. Which is a generally true assumption.
------
tdkl
Hope the faster release will also show in a faster update cycle for vendors.
Or some kind of guarantee that devices who got/get M, will also get N. The
quick reply API and notification tweaks are pretty great and doze is now
useful (seems like a something like Sony Stamina mode).
------
geodel
So Java 8 support is finally here. I think this is the effect of Android
moving to OpenJDK.
~~~
EddieRingle
They've been adding Java 8 features to ART and Jack in AOSP for many months
now, even before the OpenJDK move.
------
oDot
I really wish they would get the camera and gyro APIs on par with iOS so
Instagram could port Hyperlapse
~~~
sahaskatta
Microsoft Hyperlapse works quite well
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.hyperlapsemobile)
------
estefan
It's blatantly going to be called Nutella.
------
creshal
I guess I'll take a look at the APIs in 5 years, when it has enough market
share to be worth considering.
~~~
sliverstorm
Ice Cream Sandwich, which is 5 years old, has about vanished.
Jelly Bean still has 30% market share, but are owners of 4 year old phones a
significant portion of app revenue? I'd wager the people spending money have
at least KitKat.
Lollipop, at a year and half old, has another 30%
~~~
creshal
KitKat is three years old at this point. And I still see new phones and
tablets with 4.1 or 4.2 on sale.
Digital Signage platforms especially (the part of the Android market I
actually care about) seem to be largely stuck on 4.1.
~~~
dyladan
How much does a digital sign really benefit from tracking the most recent
releases anyways? Other than the obvious issue of security fixes, it doesn't
seem like that is a domain that would really care that much about trying to
keep up.
~~~
creshal
Security fixes are reason enough.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How a name can undermine your product - willsun
https://www.intentapp.com/blog/naming-cost/
======
gaspoweredcat
very true and yet duckduckgo somehow insist on keeping their awful clumsy name
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Did Steve Jobs Decide To Make The iPhone Before The iPad? - npguy
http://statspotting.com/2012/12/why-did-steve-jobs-decide-to-make-the-iphone-before-the-ipad/
======
smegel
The smartphone needed inventing, it was low hanging fruit (for Steve Jobs).
Tablets had already been invented, and had already failed. It wasn't obvious
that even Apple could make them succeed (perhaps in hindsight).
~~~
npguy
That is a good explanation except for the fact that at that point the phone
industry was tough to deal with. If the iPad was more or less ready a wifi
only iPad would have been the easier choice?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Making Phyramid's procedurally rendered 3D header using three.js - exogan
https://www.phyramid.com/blog/making-phyramid-coms-procedurally-rendered-3d-header
======
edvinbesic
Do they mean procedurally generated perhaps? Even so, I'm not sure that rnd()
* MAX_HEIGHT * RANDOM_SIGN qualifies as procedural.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
5 Reasons Why Every Entrepreneur Should get Married - mjfern
http://www.fernstrategy.com/?p=241
======
fr0man
This article could be titled '5 Reasons Why Every Person Should Get Married'.
None of those benefits are specific to entrepreneurs. And marriage clearly
isn't for every person, nor does every marriage offer all of those benefits.
In fact, I would say a _vast_ majority of marriages don't even bat .400 on
that list. I'm not being cynical here; my marriage is terrific, but I'm also
pretty sure we're in the minority.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tool to create interactive information architecture charts - Zamake
https://zachchang.github.io/inflow-chart/
======
Zamake
[https://medium.com/@chi_shienn/an-experimental-chart-for-
vis...](https://medium.com/@chi_shienn/an-experimental-chart-for-visualize-
information-architecture-and-user-interaction-361bebf44487)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A way to manage modules for Deno - ramirez001
https://github.com/crewdevio/Trex
======
ramirez001
it's have been weeks when I started to learn Deno, when my team started to
work in the Trex project.
there are many people still want to a package manager for deno and I think
deno doesn't need one, but sometimes we need an auto-completation and when you
use deno at first time, before caching the module there's no auto-completation
of words of a module.
Trex has a new release to help with that: Use Trex
Trex is a way more easy to use the Import Maps
This tool also support install modules from:
Deno.land Nest.land denodpkg an you can install custom modules from any url
You can see all the new features in the Trex documentation
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Solve ANY Math Problem. - Selfcommit
https://www.mathway.com/
======
dalke
There's something wrong with the math. I tried the integral from 0 to 200 of
e^(-x^2) and it gave me 0. It also gives me 0 for the range 0 to 1, and for
using x^2 instead of -x^2.
I then tried from 0 to 2 of e^(-x) and it gave me −0.864664716763, which is
negative of what it should be.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Where Is Everyone? - nobodyandproud
Hacker News used to have a vibrant and thoughtful population of commenters.<p>What happened?
======
Aachen
Have you read the guidelines in relation to your apparent perception that
quality is decreasing?
------
gradschool
I clicked on here expecting a discussion of the Fermi paradox.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Geekstas Paradise (from Craigslist) - petenixey
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/rnr/1051070155.html
======
karanbhangui
qft
\---
Geekstas Paradise
by Sinc (thanks to Gangstas Paradise by Coolio)
As I walk through the valley of silicon of death I take a look at my screen
and realize nothing's left Cause I've been working and coding so long that
even my boss thinks my minds gone,
But I never compiled lines that didn't deserve it. Me treated like a saleman,
you know that's unheard of You better watch how you're 'sperging and where
you're ogling Or your career might be just a fling
I really hate noobs but I gotta lob As you leave I see myself in a bigger cube
Fool! I'm the kinda eng that interns wanna be like On a plane in the night
Cursing Boeing and the red-eye flight.
Been spending most of our lives living in the geekstas paradise Keep spending
most of our lives living in the geekstas paradise
Look at the hours they got me working I have no life to depend on, I'm owned
by Python So I gotta be down with the code team Too much manpage reading got
me printing reams
I'm an educated fool with money on my mind Got my grants in hand and IPO in
sight I'm a locked out geeksta; set TRIPPING="banger" My shares are down so
don't arouse my anger. Taco Bell ain't but a bubble burst away I'm tired here,
do I leave or stay? I had X startups die, will there be X+1 The way things are
going I don't know
Tell me why are we too blind to find That the days we waste are yours and mine
Been spending most of our lives living in the geekstas paradise Keep spending
most of our lives living in the geekstas paradise
Options in the money, but girls not an option Minute after minute, hour after
hour Everybody's coding but there's no one's looking We keep on bitchin' When
we should be fuckin'
They say I gotta earn But no more engineering me If the manangement can't
stand it, why should they make me? I had CS, I had EE, I had enough! That's
why I'm getting outta here fools!
Been spending most of our lives living in the geekstas paradise Keep spending
most of our lives living in the geekstas paradise Tell me why are we too blind
to find That the days we waste are yours and mine
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What If Bitcoin – Shoot I didn't invest - AshishGupta93
http://whatifbitcoin.com/
======
TekMol
But does that mean anything? You could have made this kind of ROI with many
assets. For example with stock options.
I have been telling people for years that "I am sure Bitcoin will grow a lot.
I probably should invest. I'm just too lazy to dabble with the tech.".
And I have not invested even though I thought it would be a great investment.
But what if I did? I would not have invested more then $10k. Because it's such
a volatile asset. If I did that 3 years ago, I would have made $60k or so.
Nice. But I made more with less volatile investments in the same time. Simply
because I invested more.
So by not investing in BTC, I did not miss much.
~~~
pjc50
Not only is it tremendously volatile, it's very easy for it to be lost or
stolen from your wallet, or defrauded by the exchanges.
(Unless you're _really_ good at information security and very disciplined. I'd
be very uncomfortable keeping a £10k investment on a PC in my house.)
~~~
TekMol
That's actually the biggest issue with Bitcoin. And what I meant with "dabble
with the tech".
There is just no way to securely create a secret key.
Because the algorithm is so complex, you have to trust somebody else's
software to create the key. How do you know that software is neither malicious
nor buggy?
~~~
DennisP
If you really want to be sure, you can create your own private key with dice:
[http://www.swansontec.com/bitcoin-
dice.html](http://www.swansontec.com/bitcoin-dice.html)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2s2w1r/generate_ad...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2s2w1r/generate_addresses_private_keys_with_pencil_paper/)
~~~
TekMol
Thanks! That bitcoin-dice.html link is awesome. It links to a rather short
bash script that seems to do the key to public address conversion. That is
exactly what is needed.
------
davidgerard
The hype is full of survivorship bias.
* What if you lost it in Mt. Gox?
* What if you lost it in another of the roughly-monthly hacks of exchanges?
* What if you lost it on an accidentally thrown-away hard drive?
* What if you lost it to your own error?
* What if you lost it on one of the many scams the crypto space is absolutely suffused with?
For some reason these are never mentioned by people saying "but if you'd
bought in 2011".
Look at all these coins you also didn't "invest" in!
[http://deadcoins.com/](http://deadcoins.com/)
Cryptos are gambling. Good luck if you won! But it's still not a sensible
thing to recommend to others.
~~~
ggambetta
I lost it in Mt. Gox, and this website made me very sad.
------
have_faith
I refuse to visit this website in order to preserve my own sanity. I was
floating around forums trading BTC while it was $5. Life moves on, trees keep
growing.
~~~
MrMember
If I had the disposable income I have now back then I probably would have
build a mining rig when the price was around $15. It wasn't too difficult to
mine around a Bitcoin per day with a decent rig.
On the flipside I have no idea when or if I would have cashed out. When it hit
$100? $1000? Impossible to say.
------
keyle
As much as I see myself as wild person when it comes to offshoot bets, I still
can't reason myself into buying bitcoins. Not sure I must be too Gen X to find
this reasonable.
Anyone here comment "how well they did?" and if you've pulled out or are
seriously thinking about pulling out?
I feel silly, but I'm still not going to put my hard earned cash in it any
time soon... In fact, I wouldn't really know how.
~~~
tobitornottobit
I bought a dozen coins at $100 a coin. I eventually sold when they reached
around $800 per coin. My rationale was that I was far too obsessive about it,
I checked the price every day, I read and watched articles and videos and kept
up with all the drama. The amount of brain time I was spending on it was just
too much. I would have remained a holder if I wasn't obsessive.
The technology and ecosystem is very interesting in many ways, buying into it
is probably a good way to kick start your interest -- nothing better than
having your money on the line to keep you engaged -- but who knows where it's
going to be in 10 years. Which would feel worse: buying Bitcoin now and having
coins worth nothing in 10 years, or not buying Bitcoin now and in 10 years
looking back and thinking "I had the perfect opportunity and I didn't take it,
I'm an idiot!"? I imagine for most people they'd take the risk and buy in
(hence the price growth) but for me personally it's too consuming and that's
why I'm out.
~~~
keyle
Thanks for chiming in. I feel I would have done the same, become obsessed with
the price every day. Not worth it in the end.
Seems the only reasonable way to do it is with 'fuck money', pardon the term.
You know, money you happened to have forgotten about or came about that you
didn't budget for.
------
sAbakumoff
Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are, "It might have been.”
~~~
AndrewOMartin
"All our savings and our house went up in smoke because I shot them all on a
volatile investment I knew nothing about" must come in a close second.
~~~
bshimmin
"Invest only what you can afford to lose" really are wise words. They aren't
words that will get you insanely rich in the blink of an eye, of course, but
they are words that mean you won't lose your house.
~~~
AndrewOMartin
You're damn right, I worked in the online gambling industry four about 5
years, and that became the golden rule zero for all things, especially poker
strategy.
------
superasn
Interesting site. It should have another graphic on the final page like what
if i had invested the same amount in [google stock¦in a property in ny¦govt
bonds¦etc] as comparison.
------
quickthrower2
This will depress many people
------
verroq
What if I didn't buy AMD? What if I didn't buy SPY? What if I didn't buy NVDA?
What if I didn't buy Ethereum?
~~~
DennisP
Well Ethereum's in the dropdown so they've got that covered.
------
danmaz74
As long as there are greater fools, there's a lot of money to be made with
Bitcoin. Just don't be the last fool.
------
scrrr
Funny, this could be extended to all sorts of investments. What if I spent
1000 USD on Apple in 1990? I'd have about 1000 Apple stock now, currently
worth around 160k.
~~~
quickthrower2
That's nothing like the return on BTC
~~~
JSDave
How about the return on PonziCoin everybody missed out on? It's gone up about
10,000% in 2 months. Market cap should surpass global GDP mid-May next year.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Synode: understanding and automatically preventing injection attacks on Node.js - godelmachine
https://blog.acolyer.org/2018/03/12/synode-understanding-and-automatically-preventing-injection-attacks-on-node-js/
======
adumbledore
The article doesn't actually talk about preventing injection attacks, but
rather identifying potential attack surfaces by doing an AST search for
eval/exec in combination with mutable variables. The article does not explain
what limitations exist for their runtime check:
> This results in 5 false positives (out of 56 benign inputs), which are
> caused by limitations of the static analysis (3/5) or node types outside of
> the safe set (2/5).
Besides that, it's good to see more security tools - especially when the
research is open source: [https://github.com/sola-
da/Synode](https://github.com/sola-da/Synode)
------
wesleytodd
Re-writing dependency source files with another dependency is a much worse
idea than vetting your dependencies before you add them to your project IMHO
~~~
calibas
If the only other solution is creating your own custom version of a vulnerable
dependency, I can see how this could be useful. Not the "best" solution, but
certainly practical as far as making code more secure.
------
orf
Everything old is new again. Just when you thought we where done with all the
PHP injection madness...
------
devwinportable
why not add an android-style permission flags on nodeJS?
eg) nodejs profile with:
\- exec disabled
\- file write access limited to ./tmp, ./docs, ./tests
\- file read access limited to ./tmp, ./docs
\- network listening: port 1000~11000 allowed
And why not have a 'sesame points' system for dependencies?
eg)
\- ownership-change within 3 weeks: -20 points,
\- static analysis finds something wrong: -20 points
\- badges: 'file-read badge', 'exec-badge', etc.
~~~
mAritz
Isn't the first part of your suggestion handled on OS level anyways? Aka.
restricted user access, SELinux, AppArmor etc.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Copy, a competitor to Dropbox, launches today - shamino
http://www.copy.com
======
jacalata
" as easy as sending a text file. "
Without being snarky, why would you say a text file here? The only use case
for 'sending a text file' that I can think of is a programmer sharing a
.vimrc, or similar executable text file. The 99% case for someone who wants to
share some plain text, even the .vimrc case, is to paste it in the email. This
analogy feels very odd. How about 'as easy as sending a pdf' or word doc, or
'a single photo', or any kind of file that normal people ever attach to their
emails? (Possible assumption on my part - when you say 'send a file' I think
'email to them'. If you want me to think of 'make the file available for
sharing', say 'share').
------
faramarz
Honestly, it's hard to look at this website and have some information stick in
my mind.
It's gorgeous, but I think the design is overpowering the information flow (or
lack there of).
That drop section for files is absolutely useless. Why would I drop my file in
there as my VERY first step? I haven't even begun to learn about the features
before I'm asked to drop my files.
Too much design, it looks perfect, but unfortunately, that's a bad thing this
early in the launch.
Only recently did Dropbox start to ramp up design. You can't compete with
simplicity. In design, in language, in the story etc..
Sorry to go on like this.. maybe I don't have a storage problem now that i'm a
dropbox pro user.
~~~
autotravis
"Too much design, it looks perfect, but unfortunately, that's a bad thing this
early in the launch."
Whaaa...? That does not make sense to me. The UI is not complicated, so why is
it bad that it "looks perfect?"
------
josho
Checking the TOS I found a reference to Barracuda Networks.. Leading me to
believe it's a startup within a larger company (I had been wondering how a
startup could afford to buy the copy.com domain).
Given the above assumption it may have the funding to sustain the service even
if it experiences slow growth. And also suggests that the company has the
networking know how to scale their service (unlike my experience with
bitcasa.com so far).
~~~
rhp
I think you're right. We just put in a new Barracuda Backup server this week
and I noticed that, along with the usual file restore functions, it presents
us with an option to share files to a Copy account.
~~~
renownedmedia
There's going to be some cool integrations between Copy and some of the
Barracuda backup hardware. I don't know many details though, you probably
already know more than I do.
------
the_watcher
I'm curious, what is your advantage over Dropbox, GDrive, Box, etc? I like the
design, but I don't see another reason to switch.
~~~
renownedmedia
It has a lot more configurable business options, that's the biggest
differentiator.
The cost/GB is a bit less than Dropbox, too.
~~~
klinquist
like?
~~~
renownedmedia
The pricing page mentions some of the business features:
<http://www.copy.local/price/>
Basically, you can setup companies, share items amongst employees, configure
their access to the files, etc.
~~~
captn3m0
Nice to see someone using .local as the development domain.
------
martingordon
Where's the API? Dropbox has a tremendous ecosystem going for it. I'm not sure
how prevalent it is on Android, but pretty much all iOS text and PDF editors
have Dropbox integration and their new sync SDK is only going to push
integration even higher.
I can't say I'm a very heavy Dropbox user, so I don't have many complaints (if
any) about their offering, but if you want to get into the space you have to
address those complaints. A shiny UI and better pricing can only get you so
far and there's no way they're enough to beat out a competitor as entrenched
as Dropbox.
~~~
renownedmedia
Actually, everything the app does is through a RESTful API. This API is
private and undocumented (for now). I can't make any promises as to what we
will do with it in the future...
~~~
martingordon
A private and undocumented API doesn't do much for the people who develop or
rely on one or more of the several hundred (thousand?) iOS apps that already
integrate Dropbox.
~~~
akinnee
To clarify, there are definite plans to document and release the Copy API. The
only thing we can't make promises about is when that will happen (soon?).
------
testimoney2
I am pissed that dropbox makes me pay 9$ / month to have 100gb that I don't
need. I do not want 250gb, absolutely not useful :(. I would love a 5$ /month
plan with 50gb
------
davidjgraph
Does it have LAN sync and native integrated get-me-the-URL-for-this-file? If
not, forget it.
The about page says nothing about who is behind this. I have zero confidence
in apps with no "about us".
The market positioning seems to be trying to take a little from Dropbox, a
little from Box. To target the Enterprise market, as Box does, this is orders
of magnitude off what is needed.
Sorry to be so negative, but technically I suspect this has taken a lot of
effect, the marketing is as awful as it gets.
~~~
renownedmedia
Oh, and we're a project of Barracuda Networks.
~~~
davidjgraph
You're employees of <https://www.barracudanetworks.com/> , you're funded by
them?
~~~
signed0
I was wondering that too. The ToS says "Barracuda Networks" at the top.
<https://www.copy.com/about/tos/>
------
fjdghsd
A friend of mine sent me a link to Copy and told me to sign up for it and that
"it's like Dropbox." I just clicked his link to check it out and the first
thing your website did was ask for permission to use desktop notifications
(Safari/OS X). Of course, not even knowing what the website is I promptly
rejected the prompt and then closed the tab.
My complaint with this is that why in the world would I blindly let a random
website have extended permissions, before I even know what the website is?
Afte I got over it some hours later, I went back to copy.com to check it out
and I found nothing in your website that would make me want to switch from
Dropbox (for ease of use) or Spideroak (for encryption and security). One of
the comments here said exactly what I'm thinking: I have no idea who you guys
are, why I should trust you with my data, and that you'll even be around after
a year.
From reading some comments here, apparently you're part of Barracuda Networks
(no idea who this is, so it doesn't help) and some other snarky comments like
"check out humans.txt" or "look at the html code and you'll see Facebook IDs…"
No, no I'm not going to waste my time doing this.
------
kevincennis
I wonder what it cost to buy copy.com
~~~
t0
Around $100k.
[http://www.namejet.com/pages/auctions/standarddetails.aspx?a...](http://www.namejet.com/pages/auctions/standarddetails.aspx?auctionid=3296634)
------
purephase
As others have stated, I wish there was a bit more information about the
service on the page. I use Dropbox and GDrive, but I'm not particularly fond
of either of them. Aside from a slight price difference, what makes Copy stand
out?
For example, I have a 1Password file that I would like to share amongst my
team for all service related passwords. Keeping this in sync with all of our
devices is a serious pain, and often results in certain members owning it
(usually me) and thus having all of the responsibility.
It doesn't have to be 1Password. I have tried other apps like Keepass with
similar results (and web-based versions, I do not like -- security etc.).
I realize that this is hard. Version control, multiple access to the same
files and associated updates but it would really be a killer feature.
~~~
webwanderings
I gave up on using any password manager program with any cloud sync service. I
am back to plain old Excel file which I daily "backup" to the cloud using
native backup service.
I think for important and daily-used files, relying on cloud service (read:
keeping and working off of cloud) is not trust-worthy. I'd rather keep things
local and only use cloud for backup.
~~~
thesmok
I keep my KeePass file in Dropbox, it means that file is actually on my
computer but also synced to the cloud. Copy offers the same behaviour, unlike
Wuala: in Wuala you can't access your files without having their Java-based
monster running.
------
renownedmedia
There's a buried comment in here about the login being a javascript popup.
Here's a normal HTML page for doing logins: <https://www.copy.com/auth/login/>
------
apapli
Can you put some words up there about how safe my data would be?
Because it looks like the site is based on twitter bootstrap, my mind has
immediately led me to think you're doing the storage etc on a bootstrap
budget. Potentially leaving it all up to S3.
Seems this wont be the case as you are part of Barracuda Networks, can you put
some more words up there to help ease my (and other users') concerns?
~~~
renownedmedia
I can assure you that there was no Bootstrap involved in the making of Copy :p
We're taking a lot of this feedback and looking into rewording things.
------
e1ven
Reading through.. And no mention of client-side encryption. I'm not sure I see
the point - We have lots of competition in this space.
~~~
renownedmedia
Traffic from the desktop clients to the server is all done over HTTPS
~~~
atto
What happens to the files on the server? Do they sit unencrypted (so sensitive
files are a no-go)?
------
jamesbrennan
I'm very impressed with the Copy web interface. Drag and drop works
flawlessly. The in-browser preview is really nice as well.
Does anyone have experience with Barracuda Networks (the owner of Copy)? The
name sounds familiar, are the reputable?
~~~
renownedmedia
Barracuda has like 200k customers and has been around for at least several
years. Here's more information: <https://www.barracudanetworks.com/company/>
------
cypherpunks01
Somewhat unfortunate name?
~~~
valverde
It seems to be appropriate.
~~~
8ig8
I _think_ it was tongue in cheek as in a _copy_ of DropBox.
Maybe?
------
vivekrajanna
Only thing one would excel over dropbox is that create some context aware data
to be used without manually searching the whole files. other wise there
already far too many service
~~~
samstave
You mean where I can type in a search term and have it search within the files
and tell me which one has that content?
------
samstave
Origami.com is close to launch... when you About page said "origami is an...."
I at first thought you guys were related.
Especially given what Origami.com is trying to do...
------
ctz
Front page looks broken on chrome for android:
<http://imgur.com/k2mNFVc>
~~~
renownedmedia
We will buy our GUI programmer an Android tablet :)
------
webwanderings
The About section does not say who is behind. The only thing you have going
for you is your domain name.
~~~
samstave
Actually, the very bottom of the About page has a link to and logo of
Barracuda networks, but yeah - the about page needs a lot of work.
~~~
akinnee
We added that logo because of some of the comments on here. :) We're
definitely going to improve the site to give more information about what Copy
is. Our main focus so far has been on the product.
------
goronbjorn
That must've been an expensive domain name purchase.
~~~
renownedmedia
If you read the comments you'll see that someone was able to hunt down the
price...
~~~
samstave
Are you an actual employee or a PR minion?
~~~
ZachWick
renownedmedia and I are two of the developers of the Copy product. I can
assure you that he is not a "PR minion" - he can sling code better than most.
~~~
samstave
Thanks - the rapidity with which they were answering questions and the
username made me suspicious it was a PR campaign (professional)
------
donniezazen
Unfortunately not available for Linux.
~~~
dschep
Yes it is. I thought the same when I clicked "Install App", but the big button
in that popup window downloaded a tarball for linux.
~~~
ChrisClark
They definitely need to label it better then. I know the wording, 'also
available for Windows and Mac' should have explained it to me, but my brain
was being dumb and all I saw was Window/Mac and I just left the site.
------
huhsamovar
Are stored files guaranteed to stay on US soil?
~~~
renownedmedia
Yes. All of our data centers are currently located in the US, and if we do
offer overseas storage, we'll make that an explicit choice.
------
helloamar
i download the mac app and created the account, still its not able to login
~~~
akinnee
@helloamar
Will you please open a support ticket by emailing [email protected]?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Art of Unix Programming (2003) - vermaden
https://arp242.net/the-art-of-unix-programming/
======
andrey_utkin
What is special about the linked website with an opinionated reformat of this
classical book? Imho a link to author 's site would be more appropriate.
~~~
Pimpus
What I see posted here is light-years more readable and more pleasing than
what I see at the author's site[0].
[0]:
[http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/](http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/)
------
aitchnyu
I noticed these criticisms of the Unix philosophy.
Postel's law of accepting liberally and emitting conservatively is getting
blamed for leading to bloated programs that need to parse bad input.
[https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thomson-postel-was-
wrong-0...](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thomson-postel-was-wrong-00)
Text formats like JSON and XML are easy to write by hand now with better
editors and Python scripts for parsing them are easy to write. Idiosyncratic
file formats may not be escaped correctly. An regex scan for "Inactive" can
give false positives and negatives. A program that checks JSON will fail
rather than giving a false answer.
"The internet is running in debug mode" : [http://java-is-the-
new-c.blogspot.com/2014/10/why-protocols-...](http://java-is-the-
new-c.blogspot.com/2014/10/why-protocols-are-messy-concept.html)
File formats can give way to programs using Sqlite.
[https://www.sqlite.org/whentouse.html](https://www.sqlite.org/whentouse.html)
------
pvinis
The title reminded me of The Art of Prolog. Also pretty awesome book.
------
johnelliott
I am in the middle of this right now and enjoying it immensely.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Slowing The Exodus Of Skilled Foreigners - terpua
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Slowing-The-Exodus-Of-Skilled-ibd-15191141.html
======
rdl
I think everyone (except maybe self-interested immigration lawyers) thinks the
current system in the US is broken.
I think there are two extremes, and the US is inconsistently taking pieces of
each.
In the United Arab Emirates (UAE, which contains Dubai, ...), there is a
fairly open work visa policy for anyone with either enough capital ($50-100k)
to set up his own business, or with a job offer paying at least $1-2k/mo for
white collar positions (there is also the borderline-slavery $100-500/mo
construction industry, but I think that is basically a separate issue). There
is no pretense, outside banking and government, that local nationals need to
be given first shot at a job.
Then, you have countries with citizenship or permanent residency-track-only
immigration programs. (I think Canada's program is like this, and some other
commonwealth nations.) You don't NEED to become a PR or citizen if you
qualify, but almost all work visas qualify toward the PR/C process.
The main downside of the UAE system is that skilled people feel very little
long-term attachment to the place. e.g. there are non-resident indian families
who have lived for generations in UAE, but who are not permanent residents,
although they control important businesses.
The US has a weird hybrid system, where most green cards, allocated by country
and with preference toward reuniting families, go to people who have external
reasons to want to stay in the US permanently (family, where they came from
was worse, etc), and are generally economically non-productive. We give
temporary L1/H1B/etc. visas to the economically productive, disincenting them
to stay long term.
Basically, the US system is backward -- we should be trying to keep the people
who are economically valuable, as they bring net value into the economy, and
would allow us to increase the number of immigrants. We should have liberal
short and medium term visit visas, etc. for family and tourist and other non-
productive immigrants.
------
mberning
Please don't slow them down. I generally support the idea of free market
economics, and the H1-B program is an absolute subversion of it. Countries
need an immigration policy. We should develop one consistent path to
citizenship that is equitable and moderates the influx of immigrants at a
sustainable level. If these skilled workers were truly on an even playing
field with US workers then I think it would be a much better result for them,
the US workers, and the country as a whole.
------
doosra
While only speaking from experience, I've noticed that many foreign PhDs in
CS, Electrical and other engineering fields are increasingly electing to go
back once they are done.
The main reasons seem to include being so far away from family and being in an
alien culture. Further, jobs for PhDs are increasingly available in their home
countries-- this seems to seal the deal. The tough immigration stance
contributes to the discouragement since foreign workers have to "pause" their
lives until they get their green card.
------
andr
I never understood this. The US spends more money on higher education for
foreigners than any other country in the world. After those foreigners
graduate, it's harder for them to stay and work in the US than in any other
country in the world.
That is a serious mismatch of policies.
~~~
dhimes
I think I get it. We're trying to help the other countries build stronger
economies. When people are desperate, feeling powerless and without hope, they
tend to seek violent means to attain that power and hope. But by empowering
other countries to lift themselves out of poverty or giving them the tools to
become "first world" players, we actually make ourselves (US) more secure.
Said another way, it's a form of foreign aid. Looked at from this point of
view, you wouldn't let anyone stay unless there was really a special need.
------
geebee
This article, or a variant of it, has been posted many, many times over the
past few weeks. I usually chime in. I point out that 7 of the top 10 users of
the H1B visa are Indian outsourcing companies that cycle workers through the
US to learn a job before moving them back to India, and I provide a link. I
express concern that the high number of visas may be discouraging young
Americans from going into engineering and science at a time when we need them
most. I link to an NPR segment with Ron Hira, where he mentions that the
department of labor certified the prevailing wage at under $10/hr for a bunch
of programmers, and another 70+ programmers at $24,000/yr. I've done this an
embarrassing number of times now, though I am passionate about the issue, as I
do think US policy is inadvertently driving young Americans out of
engineering, and I think this is exactly whey we're in this situation where
60% of our grads
My question at this point is: how many people reading this are encountering a
variant of this post for the first time? Are we all just gathering for a well-
worn argument.
Part of the problem here is the concept of "news priming". This is done by PR
departments and political groups - prior to a lobbying or legislative
initiative, they'll try to frame the issue in the public mind. This is why the
proponents of the H1B tried to get it termed the "innovation visa" (and
probably weren't happy when India's minister of commerce called it the
"outsourcing visa.")
And of course, many people here are passionate about the issue - on both
sides, of course, so we jump in to make sure we are part of the "priming." But
I am curious - how many people here are surprised with anything in my post?
I'm starting to suspect that most people on hacker news are pretty well
informed about this by now.
~~~
psranga
I seriously doubt that immigration is driving Americans out of
engineering/programming. Let's take a look at some basic numbers.
The median household income in the US about $50k, men's medial income is 45K
and women's is 35K. If you assume a two income family with median earners
their income will be approx $80k.
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States))
Salaries in the tech industry (even at very low positions) are _much_ higher
than this (i.e., than 50k, 45k, 35k). This is _now_ when salaries are
supposedly low due to immigration.
I do see that Americans respond to economic incentives in other professions.
During the real estate bubble a _HUGE_ number of people passed the realtor
exams and got into the real estate business.
Programming/computer skills are the easiest skills to pick up (no need for
expensive equipment). I'm actually very puzzled that there aren't more
Americans in engineering/programming.
I'm unconvinced that fear of immigration-induced salary decreases is the
reason why Americans don't want to go into engineering.
~~~
geebee
The part of your argument that leaves me unconvinced is your use of the median
income as a benchmark. The article referenced (on yahoo) mentions the high
percentage of foreign nationals who obtain PhD's and Master's degrees at US
Universities.
So you're comparing someone who was talented enough in high school to hit the
ground running with Calculus at university. This student then sleeps very few
hours struggling with advanced calculus, differential equations, stochastic
processes, nonlinear optimization, compiler design, chemistry, and physics. He
scores well enough on the GRE (and perhaps the subject test) to get into a PhD
program, and makes it through 6 years + a dissertation.
You compare that to the median. Seriously?
Meanwhile, his fellow lawyers in training breeze through a Poly Sci major.
It's tough to get into a top law school, but no harder than getting into a top
engineering program (because you don't have to compete with foreign nationals
to get into law school in the US on anything near the scale you do in
engineering). 3 years of law school or 2 of an MBA program are no picnic, but
virtually _all_ students at these programs obtain their degress (which is
hardly the case at PhD programs, I know this from personal experience at
Berkeley).
Salaries would have to be as high or higher than Law/MBA to convince Americans
to do this. Instead, engineering salaries can lag way behind, because it's
easy to get foreigners, especially from countries without much economic
opportunity, to sign up for this _as a way of gaining a path toward US
residency and citizenship_.
While salaries might not be actively _lowered_ , they almost certainly place a
limit on wage _growth_. When this happens over decades (and wages aren't
similarly controlled in other fields where Law and MBA students are hired),
you'll start to see a huge wage differential.
To me, this has clearly happened - and now Americans have no interest in
signing up for such an intensely rigorous path with rewards that are, quite
frankly, much lower than in other professions.
~~~
psranga
Wrt median: Your points seem to support what I am saying. The median general
salary is much lower than even the tech industry's supposed depressed wages.
Then why aren't people scrambling to become engineers like they did to become
realtors or at least encouraging their children to become engineers?
I don't have the link handy, but NY Times had a great graphic with salaries of
different professions. Lawyers are paid more than computer people, but the
delta is not a multiple (iirc it was about 50% more). So it's not even clear
to me that lawyers are paid significanty more (considering the criticality of
their work).
Also it's not clear to me why you bring in PhD and master's. Most engineers in
tech don't have those degrees.
~~~
geebee
<The median general salary is much lower than even the tech industry's
supposed depressed wages>
My point is that it doesn't make sense to compare a skillset like engineering
to the median. You'd need to compare it to the kind of salary someone capable
of engineering would be able to earn in another field. Salaries for a field
can be higher than the median and still be lower than they would be in the
absence of an H1B program.
<Then why aren't people scrambling to become engineers like they did to become
realtors or at least encouraging their children to become engineers?>
I didn't notice anyone scrambling to get their kids into the real estate
business. But maybe the reason they don't encourage their kids into
engineering is that they've seen that a similar or lesser effort in other
fields would have a bigger payout?
<Also it's not clear to me why you bring in PhD and master's. Most engineers
in tech don't have those degrees.>
I brought this up because it was used in the original article that promoted
this thread. It is often used to justify the need for an H1B program.
------
cvboss
The only reason to hire the majority of that IT "talent" was the cheaper
rates, not some outstanding brilliant achievments or skills. I think the guy
is lobbying the interests of those bodyshops, that make tons of money selling
developers from other countries. Also how many H1B holders actually get
"postgraduate US education"? Not so many, I am afraid.
~~~
nandemo
Do you think Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Goldman Sachs go out of their way to
hire foreigners just because they are cheaper?
~~~
garply
Why wouldn't they? For a profit-seeking entity, lower costs seems like a good
reason to me.
------
antirez
There are other cases, like Italians that are usually educated and trained in
Italy and _then_ they go in the US. Our govern is really silly permitting
this. The reason scientists go away from Italy after the initial years of
research is that there is too little money for their equipment and for
research in general.
------
rnugent
The H-1B program has been discredited by study after study. US Innovation did
not suddenly begin with the presence of foreign "talent". Indeed if you
examine the impact of this talent in their own countries you'll see that there
is very little innovation coming from those geographies when the talent is
there. Think about it, why would a country encourage it's most skilled to come
to the US in the first place? Because the best talent in the world is right
here and they want their citizens to gather knowledge from the most innovative
system and bring it back home. The H-1B program exports our most valuable
resource - our competitive edge.
~~~
nandemo
There's little innovation in (say) India and China because talent is not
enough; you need capital and free markets.
Also, as far as I know countries do not "encourage" their citizens to go to
US. Individuals choose to go to US on their own. It's not like they're
embarking on a government-funded trip.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange: our new heroes - yesbabyyes
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/03/snowden-manning-assange-new-heroes
======
yesbabyyes
I'm not sure how to state this, but this is the second story I submit in a
while which gets a few votes -- more than some on the front page/page two
right now -- but is nowhere to be seen other than through /newest. For
instance, this story has 5 points after 22 minutes as of this writing, while
there's a story with 4 points after 40 minutes on the front page [1].
I don't seem to be hellbanned, but my stories seem to have a very negative
score to begin with. Or does anyone know the cause?
[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6322875](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6322875)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Transform words accurately e.g. “hacker” to “hack”, “hacking” etc. - steinsgate
https://github.com/gutfeeling/word_forms
======
steinsgate
I have been working on a NLP project where I needed to identify different
forms of the same word. Typically, this is done by Stemming and Lemmatization.
These methods are not accurate, and I needed high accuracy in my project.
Since I found no libraries/packages that can do this, I decided to write a
Python package myself. It works quite well now. It is also trending in
/r/python. Feel free to check it out, I would love to hear your feedback.
------
brudgers
Yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12899886](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12899886)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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