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Hacking Away at the Counterculture (1990) - tux
http://readtext.org/security/hacking-counterculture/
======
cetacea
An essay about technology counterculture, now hosted by a tech startup on a
website that serves ads.
~~~
tux
Not sure what you are trying to say here... If you're talking about ReadText,
first of all its not a startup and second there is only one none-intrusive
text-only ad on top and no one forces you to see it, you're welcome to use
uBlock or AdBlock if you wish :-)
~~~
cetacea
I'm not opposed to being served ads. I just think taking an essay about
counterculture and serving it with ads is highly ironic.
And I didn't say readtext is a startup. I said it's hosted by a startup
(vrocket). Also ironic.
~~~
tux
Oh ^_^ sorry!
------
brudgers
Date: 1990.
I wish readtext.org would put the date at the top of the article for context.
~~~
tux
Not all articles have original publish date. But for those that do, here you
go ;-) Hope this helps!
~~~
brudgers
Thank you. I find the context helpful.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: What are you ways to learn new things? - aryamaan
This question is kept this vague intentionally to not bias your answer in any way.
======
jimsojim
By jumping right into them. Usually I try to spend straight 8-10 hours in the
beginning to get hang of things + it gets you in a flow. The idea is to get
over that first hump the uncomfortable part of starting something new and
nuances that come with it. As you get used to few things you can reduce your
sessions to 1-2 hours everyday or 2-3 every other day.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Will Microsoft restore Start Menu to Windows 8? - denzil_correa
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2012/11/13/microsoft-sinofsky-fired-windows-8/1702511/
======
diminish
If Windows 8 is a flop, Microsoft may restore the Start Menu, and that way may
come closer in the UI experience to Win7. This will be Windows 9. Since
corporate upgrades will skip Win 8, then Windows 9 becomes a success (See
Me=>XP, Vista=>7)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Celebrating Marvin Minsky – Live Webcast (3.30pm EDT March 17 2016) - sajid
http://www.media.mit.edu/events/marvin/
======
osteele
Hosted by John Hockenberry.
Speakers: Joi Ito, Daniela Rus, Gloria Rudisch Minsky, Jacques D'Amboise,
Patrick Winston, Yoshiaki Shirai, Mike Hawley, Dylan Holmes, Danny Hillis,
Cynthia Solomon & Brian Silverman, Ed Fredkin, Tom Ashbrook & David Levitt, Ed
Boyden, Tod Machover, Nicholas Negroponte, Margaret Minsky, and more.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Why Does Covid-19 Kill So Many Older People? - likajan
https://www.labroots.com/trending/health-and-medicine/17095/covid-19-kill-people
======
bjornsing
This doesn’t seem very interesting from a scientific standpoint, and it’s also
a somewhat dangerous message politically. The director of the WHO said
yesterday that a significant proportion of those requiring hospitalization are
under 50. In France and Sweden 50% of patients admitted to ICUs are under 65.
So the right understanding should be: if you’re young _and you have access to
intensive care_ you will survive. But making sure all have access to intensive
care is not easy...
~~~
bjornsing
And don’t forget: slowly deteriorating to the point where you need intensive
care is not a fun experience...
------
notlukesky
Basically people over 75 years of age have much weaker immune systems. And
most of those also suffer from other illnesses and Covid 19 compounds that.
~~~
kwhitefoot
On average this is true but all of those in that age group who have died in
Norway so far had worse than average health to begin with. At least here there
are many octogenarians who are really quite fit, physically active, and
healthy.
------
kwhitefoot
I think that the apparent death rates depend very much on timing, population
density, general health and fitness, access to intensive care facilities, and
the details of how cases and deaths are counted.
Compare for instance the UK and Norway. Norway has about 1500 confirmed cases
with seven deaths, average age of those dying is over eighty.
The UK with about three and half thousand confirmed cases has nearly two
hundred deaths.
So on this basis the UK has a bit over twice the number of cases but twenty
five times the number of deaths.
This suggests that several of the factors I mentioned have a substantial
effect on the reported likelihood of dying in the two countries; but which
ones and is the likelihood really as different as it seems?
~~~
chippy
You really cannot and should not compare confirmed cases / tests vs deaths
when the calculation of confirmed cases or tests varies from place to place.
For example, South Korea where anyone can get a test, versus the UK where only
ill people in hospital will get a test.
So what can you do? Possibly compare the number of sick people who have been
tested in hospital? Possibly you need to control for demographics, and
certainly per population. Possibly compare to official estimates of total
population infected (e.g. UK could be around 50K now)
Then you can start to look at the differences, but the error rates are going
to be large.
~~~
kwhitefoot
> You really cannot and should not compare confirmed cases / tests vs deaths
> when the calculation of confirmed cases or tests varies from place to place.
That was my point.
------
emmelaich
Doesn't answer the obvious question .. which is why does covid-19
disproportionally affect the old _compared to other influenza viruses._
Or _appears_ to.
~~~
33degrees
Covid-19 is not an influenza virus, coronaviruses are a different family
~~~
DanBC
Yes.
Also, we have massive campaigns to immunise as many vulnerable as possible
against flu every year.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Recent programming books - vamsee
http://programmingzen.com/2010/06/21/ten-recent-programming-books-that-will-make-you-a-better-developer/
======
regularfry
I'm surprised to see Programming Collective Intelligence on the list. Not to
say it's not a good book - it absolutely is, I've got a well-thumbed copy sat
next to me - but I can't say that it's as generally applicable as the rest.
~~~
acangiano
It is more specific than the others, but a majority of my readers are web
developers, so I thought my bias for this book would be shared and welcome.
------
locopati
I've found anything in O'Reilly's Beautiful series to be worthwhile
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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To stay young, kill zombie cells - devy
https://www.nature.com/news/to-stay-young-kill-zombie-cells-1.22872
======
DrScump
2 days ago, 217+ points, 62+ comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15577836](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15577836)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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How the Father of Claymation Lost His Company - benjaminfox
http://priceonomics.com/how-the-father-of-claymation-lost-his-company/
======
doctorpangloss
I expected the story to end with, "And then the billionaire's son ran the
company into the ground," but it didn't.
Still, I'm skeptical to credit Travis Knight with "saving" the studio. The
money and nepotism definitely rescued the studio as a profit-making
enterprise.
But if the same artists had worked on the same Coraline with someone else's
capital, would the outcome have been any different? Probably not. Did it
matter if the money was branded Knight or someone else's?
The wrongest takeaway would be to credit Laika's new management with being
anything more than turnaround artists (as opposed to film artists). Vinton was
a creative visionary and always will be, money in the bank or not.
Vinton should have known what he was getting into when he took Knight's money.
Of course the objective was to acquire (or in this case, inherit) Vinton's
creative vision and make it Travis Knight's.
It is remarkable that Travis, through nothing more than the luck of being born
who he is, manages to obtain these intangibles: Vinton's identity as an artist
composed of his studio and his work.
~~~
toyg
_> The wrongest takeaway would be to credit Laika's new management with being
anything more than turnaround artists (as opposed to film artists). Vinton was
a creative visionary and always will be, money in the bank or not._
To be fair, from the article it reads like the studio was basically gutted to
the core and rebuilt from scratch. They took a struggling but quirky visionary
company, razed it (after it had already shrunk to less than 20% of what it had
been at its peak), and turned it into what is basically a traditional Disney-
style Hollywood-oriented animation studio (big movies, big budgets, big
merchandise). They even dropped the original name. One has to wonder: what did
Travis Knight actually keep from Vinton's old enterprise?
For the record, a huge factor in _Coraline_ 's success was its origin as a
celebrated, prize-winning book from a celebrated, prize-winning literary and
pop-culture demigod (Neil Gaiman) arguably at the peak of his career. Sure,
adaptation and animation were good, but it wasn't exactly the hardest
assignment to begin with.
_> It is remarkable that Travis, through nothing more than the luck of being
born who he is, manages to obtain these intangibles_
Yeah, but social classes don't exist in America, right? Eh.
~~~
SeoxyS
Which brings up the question: what's the point of keeping the original
company? You're unlikely to have as much equity in a company with so much
history as opposed to if you were to found a new company.
This reminds me somewhat of Warren Buffet's biggest mistake, which was that he
had made a lousy investment into a Textile-manufacturing company called
Berkshire Hathaway. Having a disagreement with its CEO; he acquired a majority
stake of the company, and fired its CEO out of spite. But he couldn't get all
the stock; and when he completely reshaped the company into what it is today,
half of the value he created ended up going to the company's original
stockholders, instead of himself as it would have, had he started from scratch
with his own company.
~~~
femto
The original company has a known brand (Vinton), and that opens doors.
~~~
SeoxyS
Nike, arguably, is a bigger and more door-opening brand than Vinton.
~~~
chinpokomon
In the world of Claymation, what does an athletic shoe company know?
------
JamesArgo
Travis Knight is interesting. He's been spoiled all his life, yet he became a
highly-competent animator relatively quickly – and this can be verified from
other articles. He’s likely highly-intelligent but not extraordinarily so.
Some species of smart people pretend to be stupid, though not often this
stupid:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU9jq990b-w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU9jq990b-w)
/ I’ve been watching videos of him for that last few minutes, I wonder if he's
something of a Zelig-like figure. Strange specimen, I’d be interested in
meeting him.
~~~
facepalm
He doesn't sound so stupid to me, especially relative to his age. How smart
and wise were you as a teenager? (Not sure how old he is in that video, but he
looks something like 18)?
~~~
JamesArgo
I don't think he's stupid, but he was subconsciously pretending to be. I think
maybe wealth can interfere with identity formation. When you can purchase an
identity as a kid, you become something of a cypher for awhile. Maybe he was a
nerd that tried to purchase cool. I don't know, but it's interesting how
someone so smart can lack self awareness (even as a teenager) to the degree
displayed in the video.
I've got a lot of respect for the guy. He was the director of animation on two
excellent, Pixar-level films. He's obviously super talented.
------
webwielder
Everything happens for a raisin.
------
bluesjr
Excellent read. I usually don't have the patience to read longer pieces, but
this was a great story.
| {
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Business Lessons I Learned This Year - webtickle
http://www.quicksprout.com/2009/08/31/10-business-lessons-i-learned-this-year/
======
jwesley
Anyone else tired of these business-advice-self-help blog posts? It's all this
feel good generalized advice that just seems to reiterate the same points over
and over again. Anything with concrete examples (data is even better) is so
much more useful than this sort of stuff.
------
Tichy
Is there a market for the business equivalent to "Men's Health"? Instead of
"10 ways to get great abs in 5 minutes", it could be filled with similar
advice for businesses.
Not that I want to deride the advice - I guess some things one just needs to
hear over and over again, until they finally sink in...
------
hansef
Although I agree that the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none personality type
doesn't make a good hire, the corollary to this is that you need to watch out
for people with advanced not-my-job-syndrome. Over the years I've worked with
designers who consider any mention of production of their work "techie speak",
developers who think design is just "making things pretty", Flash guys who get
the creepy-crawlies if they have to interface with Javascript, marketing
drones who completely lack any understanding of how a web application is
built, etc. Claiming to be a "specialist" is often just cover for a lack of
intellectual curiosity.
People should of course always excel at a few specific things, and play off
each others' strengths, but remember: specialization is for insects.
~~~
anamax
> Although I agree that the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none personality type
> doesn't make a good hire
I'm not sure that I do. I've seen companies that survived because someone did
what it took to ship, regardless of whether "it" had anything to do with
his/her speciality.
Or, maybe that person's "speciality" was "ships product".
~~~
hansef
+1
As a self-professed generalist I just didn't want to sound too self-serving.
;) OTOH, I believe that striving to develop particular excellence in a few
things IS a hallmark of good self-discipline...
------
futuremint
I couldn't make it to the end of the article because of the spelling errors.
If you're offering business advice, at least learn how to write a coherent
sentence!
------
moneyreign
It's always great to look back at successful/unsuccessful marketing attempts
and see where they went right and wrong.
------
rokhayakebe
1 Advise I Learned This Year. "Don't take any, including this one"
~~~
webtickle
I think there are a lot of good gems in there. Especially the one on: the
minimal viable product concept by Eric Ries.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Writing a Phase-locked Loop in Straight C - blueintegral
http://liquidsdr.org/blog/pll-howto/
======
phunge
PLLs are fascinating. Software PLLs are less fun than messing with the
hardware, in my experience!
I started working on a software PLL recently -- not analog like this one,
digital. Specifically, I was trying to work out the math on a fully event
driven type-II PLL -- i.e. instead of updating at a fixed sampling rate, it'd
wake only when an edge happened on the input or VCO. I was starting to get
curious whether there's a solution for that somewhere on the web.
This is a good intro to (hardware) PLLs in general:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jzLDe950AY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jzLDe950AY)
followed by
[http://www.ece.tamu.edu/~spalermo/ecen620.html](http://www.ece.tamu.edu/~spalermo/ecen620.html)
~~~
fnordfnordfnord
This link is broken, looks like they've recently redone their webpages.
[http://www.ece.tamu.edu/~spalermo/ecen620.html](http://www.ece.tamu.edu/~spalermo/ecen620.html)
------
rasz_pl
Warning: You need ~three semesters of EE under your belt to grok the math used
in this blog post. Incidentally at that point you dont need that blog post
because this stuff is trivial and self explanatory. This makes me very
confused. It almost reads like a solution to an assignment you would get in
DSP class.
~~~
casion
Man, EE is what I do for fun, and DSP is what I write every day. I can't even
follow this without sitting down and spending hours on it, so don't feel bad.
------
quarterwave
For anyone interested, here's the essence of a phase-locked loop:
Say you're climbing up a long staircase and the step height increases suddenly
- then you'll bump into the next step. If the height were to go the other way
i.e; decrease, then you'll put your foot down hard trying to place the next
step. That change in step height is in fact a change in _frequency_ , and
you're forced to adjust your pace abruptly by adjusting the timing (phase) of
your subsequent steps.
Is there a 'gentler' way to adjust the phase? Now say you're wearing some kind
of spongy sandals that can take up the slack, so at every step you
_increasingly_ sense that the frequency has changed. This accumulation
indicates that phase is mathematically the _integral_ of instantaneous
frequency with respect to time.
We now put this integral in a feedback loop. Then, if the staircase step
height changes suddenly we use the _slow_ accumulated phase to produce an
error signal that gradually drives the frequency generator (in this case, our
brain) to adjust the pace of our step till we get in _lock_ -step.
The actual dynamics is more complicated, involving a non-linear frequency
capture (which linearizes the system) and then the _slower_ phase lock. You
can see this in the waveforms in the original post.
------
th0ma5
Lot of great things happening in SDR, especially since the RTL-SDR devices
opened the field to more exploration, even in spite of their limitations.
Examples like this are exposing more and more people to DSP as well, and that
gives me hope for the future of learning.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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At this point, 5G is a bad joke - CrankyBear
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3575510/at-this-point-5g-is-a-bad-joke.html
======
jkchu
I am personally fine with my current phone speeds. I even use my phone as a
hotspot for my laptop when I do coding at the park.
Curious what the bottlenecks for people are that make them want 5G so
urgently?
~~~
1123581321
For one, many people don’t have data fast and low-latency enough to make
hotspot usage a good enough experience.
~~~
ac29
If your signal levels are poor enough that 4G is slow, 5G isnt going to help
unless you happen to be extremely close to a mmWave access point with nothing
but air in between it and your phone.
~~~
ksec
It isn't just Signal, but Network Capacity.
------
ArkVark
The point of 5G is to allow carriers to serve more data with the same amount
of spectrum. Usually that leads to consumer benefits in the form of a cheaper
rate per megabyte. That's basically it.
~~~
bitminer
I disagree. I think the purpose of 5G is to allow carriers (formerly known as
The Phone Company) to sell value-added services to other companies large and
small. IoT, video-on-demand, Big Data, AI, automation, etc. The bandwidth
story is the distraction.
Guess who pays?
~~~
ArkVark
IoT devices are cheap and tiny and so are rarely on the latest cellular
standards. Your typical IoT use case is smart metering and logistics - hardly
big data users.
In most of those other use cases, the carrier serves as basically a big dumb
pipe.
~~~
proce55ing
Yes and the cost models are being driven down even more by Cat-M and NB-IoT.
I've been working in the IoT space for some time and there's now a real shift
into these technologies for large scale telemetry deployments like you
described. The shutdown of 2G networks across the world have ruled out a lot
of the cheaper modems.
There are other benefits, such as enabling a larger set of solutions to be
battery powered and for an increased lifespan.
High density, sparse traffic solutions like you described are often termed as
mMTC (Massive Machine Type Communications). The main benefits to 5G in these
regards focus on the mobile network and their ability to manage a higher
volume of subscribers and therefore lower their costs to the end customer.
------
kierank
I have 5G home broadband in London and receive 700Mbps down with no cap.
There's service from multiple operators. Yes we've had teething issues but
they were all resolved.
~~~
Dayshine
With who? I've never seen unlimited data only sims in the UK.
~~~
jimsmart
Three provide exactly this.
[http://www.three.co.uk/unlimited-data](http://www.three.co.uk/unlimited-data)
There may be others: I didn't look.
------
Eleopteryx
Feeling somewhat validated in my choice to upgrade to a discounted phone from
2019 rather than spring for a newer phone with 5G support. I just had a
feeling 5G was going to be something I would certainly eventually want to
have, but wouldn't make a huge practical difference in the short-term (the
next couple of years).
------
Fr33maan
There is a 5g specification called 2D2 which is an acrobym for device to
device. Could we create a "p2p" network so we don't need to all pay provider
to get internet but rather share bandwidth ?
------
quantum_state
The pop up ads from the site is very annoying and out of date ...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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6 steps to building a better iphone app - newsio
http://mashable.com/2009/06/10/build-iphone-app/
======
TomOfTTB
The basic premise here is "focus on the iPhone, not on being a generic mobile
app" (and "test" which is sort of a "duh point")
Almost a year ago there was a post saying Apple was making a mistake by not
focusing on Java development for the iPhone SDK. I responded (here if you're
curious: [http://www.tomstechblog.com/post/Objective-C-Savior-of-
the-i...](http://www.tomstechblog.com/post/Objective-C-Savior-of-the-
iPhone.aspx)) by saying Objective-C made developers focus on the iPhone
exclusively which would result in better apps.
Articles like this make me think history has backed me up. There are a few low
quality apps starting to sneak in to the app store but I still think by and
large iPhone apps are of a far higher quality than your average java based
mobile app.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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The Startup Choice: Get Big or Get Bought - olivercameron
http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/30/technology/startup_acquisitions/
======
ori_b
Where did being sustainable go?
~~~
apike
Small but sustainable startups are not on the media's radar. Simply put, we're
boring.
~~~
kylebragger
The good thing is, I don't wake up in a cold sweat not knowing if I'll get
Techcrunch coverage today. I wake up knowing I've built a profitable business
that can be big (probably not enormous) and more than provide for myself, my
team, and our investors. The "lifestyle" business has somehow gotten a bad
rap, but there's honestly nothing wrong with creating a sustainable company
that makes everyone involved (users included) very happy.
~~~
brandnewlow
Kyle, honest question, and feel free to ping me off HN with thoughts, but you
raised some money from a few investors if I recall. How do you square knowing
your business will "probably not be enormous" with expectations from your
investors? I wondered at this when I heard Forrst took investment. I'm a huge
fan of niche online communities, but don't see how they could be deserving of
investment due to growth limitations.
------
fleitz
Or find this strange and mysterious thing that even coffee shops have figured
out called a "business model". Amazingly if you charge just a little bit more
than what it costs to provide the service you can keep on going like this
indefinitely.
Apparently, there are businesses that have used this thing called profit to
stay in business for hundreds of years. It sounds pretty mysterious to me, I
better bet on the tried and true thing getting big or getting bought.
------
endeavor
Interesting that they mention Gowalla pivoting and looking for a buyer. Then I
see this a couple items down in my reader: Facebook buys Gowalla
[[http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/02/technology/gowalla_facebook/...](http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/02/technology/gowalla_facebook/?source=cnn_bin)]
| {
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Microsoft wins right to sell Word - RiderOfGiraffes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8237497.stm
======
phsr
The title is misleading here, Microsoft was granted a stay on the on the
injunction that would prevent them from selling Word. They still need to
appeal or settle the Texas court's ruling if they want to continue to sell
Word after the stay.
------
der_ketzer
I wonder, does someone knows why Microsoft developed Office with such a patent
infrigment?. ¿Did they hope nobody notices?, ¿Didn't do the homework? or just
thought they could give some millions away and everything would be fine again.
~~~
roc
Given the things that have been granted, no-one can ever be sure they aren't
infringing a software patent. As an example, any piece of software
implementing markdown would almost certainly infringe this same patent.
Google's web spider and search engine would probably be found to infringe this
patent.
Microsoft is unpopular and often the 'Bad Guy' in these situations. And i4i
isn't your everyday patent troll.
But this is a bad patent. It's an excellent example of how the process for
granting software and process patents is deeply flawed and in need of review
and reform.
| {
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A tiny robot with moves inspired by caterpillars and jellyfish - IntronExon
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/science/tiny-robot-medical.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fscience&action=click&contentCollection=science®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront
======
petermcneeley
Not a robot. However, definitely potential for a micro touchless manipulator .
"The scientists use external magnetic fields to exert torque on magnetic
particles embedded inside the soft elastomer body of the robot to change the
robot's body shape and steer it around."
[https://phys.org/news/2018-01-nature-inspired-soft-
millirobo...](https://phys.org/news/2018-01-nature-inspired-soft-millirobot-
enclosed-spaces.html)
~~~
cornellwright
If this is not a robot, then what is a robot?
~~~
danielbarla
Well, I think the argument is that you're looking at a tiny piece of a larger
equipment, which contains the power source and needs to manipulate this
smaller device using magnetic fields. So, probably the entire set of equipment
would be the robot.
While still very cool, I think the way it's presented here implies that the
little rubber part is autonomous in terms of power, muscles / actuation,
sensing and local planning capability, which is just not the case.
~~~
regularfry
I think you'd have a hard time convincing people that
[https://www.istockphoto.com/gb/photo/industrial-robot-arm-
is...](https://www.istockphoto.com/gb/photo/industrial-robot-arm-isolated-on-
a-white-background-gm507266875-45772594?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect) wasn't a
robot, but the same argument applies.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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A Seed Stage Mental Framework to Limit Failure as a Startup Founder - massimosgrelli
https://thevalley.substack.com/p/fail-sucks-a-seed-stage-mental-framework
======
artembugara
"people don’t know what they want until you create it for them" in point 2
"“Go looking for your user base” is something that you need to do since day
one when you start writing the first line of code" in point 1
Don't you contradict yourself?
Startup is not about creating stuff. It is about solving a problem. People
will not be like "oh yeah, I didn't know I had this problem!" So, spending 4-6
month to discover that is extremely expensive.
"Remember that "not-remote" is intrinsically better than "remote" and that
brings many advantages." \- well, that is a very hard story to sell in 2020
~~~
trjordan
Discovering the problem and discovering the solution are two different things.
The art is getting people to say “this part of my day sucks” without inviting
them to specify the solution. Your job, as founder, is to understand the
problem deeply enough, then create a solution, then get feedback and iterate.
~~~
shipit
profound- "this part of my day sucks" \-- thank you!
------
xwdv
The next big startup in the 2020s will be comprised of a team that is
aggressively remote, will launch their first product after 4 to 6 months, and
conducts regular interviews with customers through video conferences.
~~~
massimosgrelli
I'm betting 100% on that. Many of our portfolio companies work in this way
already.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hypertext Literal - jashkenas
https://observablehq.com/@observablehq/htl
======
mbostock
We created Hypertext Literal because we wanted a convenient (and safe!) way to
create DOM from JavaScript, and nothing more. As the post explains, we were
inspired by lit-html, but felt we could simplify (and optimize) by focusing on
creation rather than dynamic updates.
~~~
couchand
Hi Mike, this looks neat! In the linked document you mention that in addition
to lit-html it's also inspired by HTM. Briefly looking at the readme for that
project, it does look quite similar. Could you clarify what features/design
decisions in HTL distinguish it from HTM?
~~~
mbostock
Thanks! This is covered at the end of the post, but I can elaborate a bit
here.
HTM mirrors JSX syntax, which means it requires closing tags for every
element. We wanted HTML5 syntax instead, which means our parser needs to
handle void elements and missing close tags, and a variety of other edge cases
(such as “bogus” comments) whose behavior is defined by the HTML5
specification.
Another important feature for us is contextual namespaces. If you have a G
element within HTML, it’s an unknown element, but within SVG it’s a group
element. HTM (and JSX, HyperScript, and similar approaches) build the DOM from
leaves up, so at the time you create the element, you don’t know what the
parent is and thus can’t infer the appropriate namespace. That’s fixable by
changing what HTM passes to the “pragma”, but it would require changing the
signature.
~~~
mhd
That's a pretty good selling point. I always was quite disappointed that after
years and years of finding more writable alternatives to the verbosity of
HTML, we picked up the worst version of it (from a writing-as-a-human
perspective). That always bothered me way more than mixing markup and code.
HTML5 by comparison ain't that bad and it's the language you'd also be using
when writing things manually. So I appreciate the effort. Pairing that with
preact might be a good toy project.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: A cli JSON processor powered by Node.js - flerro
http://www.rolandfg.net/2014/07/29/json-commandline-processor/
======
brianparks
From your page: "I tried jq, which seems very good. However I was not quite
able to grasp its syntax, so I gave up searching and I created my own."
I use jq on an almost daily basis, so I can sympathize with your plight. jq's
syntax is documented quite well (if rather succinctly), but one non-intuitive
thing is that it is possible to end up with non-JSON output if you use jq's
array ([]) operator rather than the map() filter. However, I still prefer its
syntax as one pipeline similar to UNIX one-liners rather than several command-
line args, probably purely out of similarity to how I think about the data. I
think about its transformations, rather than as independent selection and
projection steps. This may be personal preference, but I'm curious as to your
thoughts on syntactical choices.
------
zimpenfish
Your first transform example (name, dob) seems to have the wrong output
underneath.
Might also be useful to have a "Why you should use this instead of jq,
json(1), etc."
~~~
flerro
I fixed the example, thanks.
Using jop in place of jq I think is only a matter of personal taste, so
something like "use this instead of that" may sound a little biased ;)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How do I deal with the problem of too many talents and personas? - magsafe
http://www.quora.com/How-do-I-deal-with-the-problem-of-too-many-talents-and-personas
======
gamechangr
You're going to have to get focused on one and BRAND yourself as the expert
and let the other two take on a hobby form.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook Tries To Silence Lamebook: Removes Its Page, Blocks Links And Likes - ssclafani
http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/22/facebook-blocks-lamebook/
======
mmaro
You can't even send private messages that have a lamebook URL. At least
Facebook makes it obvious that we shouldn't trust them with private
communication / Facebook Messages.
~~~
mikedmiked
What makes this frustrating is how few people care.
~~~
rick_2047
That is not exactly frustrating. Not everyone thinks of their privacy in the
way people at HN do. And I have made my peace with it. Actually I see the
point, why would I be so worried about facebook reading something which I
would not be worried if someone overheard it while I was talking on the
subway.
~~~
mmorris
It has nothing to do with privacy, it has to do with Facebook censoring
messages. What if you couldn't send an email with a link to a questionable
site? That wouldn't bother you at all?
~~~
sbov
No-one likes spam, but I've noticed that at least some email providers do this
by domain/ip address of the emailed link in order to combat spam. Maybe its
different since it ends up in your spam folder, but its effectively the same
result.
Details: I've had a website that got hit once by this, which was funny because
we never even sent any email. When testing it out, it seemed to be being
filtered by the ip address the link resolved to. Even if I changed the domain
name I emailed, if it resolved to the same ip, it still was being marked as
spam. Note that this was being tested from a 3rd party email, not by sending
from our own mail server.
~~~
mmorris
Interesting, I wasn't aware of this happening. Unless they had a setting to
disable it, my initial reaction is that I'd disagree with those email
providers blocking domains/IP addresses too.
I do think, though, that there is an easily identifiable difference between
blocking obvious spam sites, likely based on autonomous algorithms, and (I
presume manually) blocking a site towards which you clearly have ulterior
motives.
------
mortenjorck
Though little consolation for their current trademark lawsuit from Facebook,
this offers a huge marketing opportunity for Lamebook. Slap a gigantic "BANNED
ON FACEBOOK!" stamp over the logo and play up the antagonism.
~~~
scalyweb
Google could certainly make their own innocent "mistake" and have Lamebook be
the destintation for "I'm Feeling Lucky" for those who can't remember the url
for facebook.com.
~~~
qq66
That would be a sad waste of the trust that users have built up for Google.
~~~
travisjeffery
Google "Where you can find Chuck Norris" and press I'm Feeling Lucky...
Or back in the day with "Miserable failure" going directly to George W. Bush's
page.
These things have happened before.
~~~
drivebyacct2
scalyweb was implying that google do it intentionally.
your examples occurred because of link bombing.
------
finiteloop
This is Bret Taylor, CTO of Facebook.
This was a mistake on our part. In the process of dealing with a routine
trademark violation issue regarding some links posted to Facebook, we
inadvertently blocked all mentions of the phrase "lamebook" on Facebook. We
are committed to promoting free expression on Facebook. We apologize for our
mistake in this case, and we are working to fix the process that led to this
happening.
~~~
agravier
Thanks for posting this explanation. I am curious about that part:
> inadvertently blocked all mentions of the phrase "lamebook" on Facebook.
Inadvertently seems to imply that this was not voluntary, more like the result
of some "misclick". Is that so? Are there such powerful control tools at
Facebook which use is not under strict review? If it was inadvertent, I think
there ought to be serious policy revision regarding the use of these big
brother tools at Facebook ;)
~~~
andreyf
Hypothesis: Thousands of people around the world mis-flag content for a
variety of reasons every day. One of the outsourced content-reviewers working
for a consultancy hired by facebook made a mistake in handling the copyright
infringement flag, and blocked the site. It wasn't noticed by anyone until the
TechCrunch story went up.
------
msy
If I were Lamebook I'd be registering hundreds of silly lame/facebook related
domains per hour and offering them as alt urls to use via Facebook. Make the
9-figure-valuation company dance and jump for a scrappy joke site, nothing
will make a mockery of them faster.
~~~
citricsquid
If anyone wants to do this, the code GOBBLE will get a $1 .com with godaddy,
first 15k uses only.
~~~
scythe
Is that a reference to GOBBLES, by any chance?
~~~
kingkilr
What the heck is GOBBLES? Do you mean Goebbels?
~~~
scythe
GOBBLES is a trolling/security outfit of sorts. They've given talks at Defcon
but as far as I know their members are basically anonymous.
------
woogley
At what point does a site become "big enough" that it becomes a marketplace
monopoly which is not legally permitted to discriminate?
Obviously all sites have a right to control/filter content, but I wonder if
there is some law that a giant site must abide by some stricter rules of equal
participation ..
~~~
jerf
Enforcing one's trademark does not constitute "discrimination".
Facebook is in the right here. Lamebook is clearly an attempt to cash in on
the Facebook name, trademark law does not permit that, trademark law is
correct here. Merely being "the little guy" doesn't make you right or give you
carte blanche to ignore whatever laws you want.
~~~
CPops
Parody and commenting about something and humor and so forth is protected as
fair use even under our horrendously fucked up "intellectual property" system.
Now, I think Facebook has the right to block whatever links they want to block
on their own website. It's their website and they should do what they want
that they feel is in their own self-interest.
Casting this as Lamebook doing something that violates Facebook's trademark is
incorrect without any actual evidence that they are indeed violating
Facebook's trademark.
Merely having a name that rhymes with Facebook isn't enough to call that a
violation of Facebook's trademark.
~~~
jerf
You cited defenses against copyright infringement. There is no parody
exemption that I have ever heard of that applies to the active use of a
trademark. You can certainly create yourself a "Lamebook" to use in, say, a
web comic, and make it even look exactly like the actual Lamebook page, and
nobody would blink, just like nobody blinks at a Sorny in a web comic. But
you're not allowed to _actually do business_ as Sorny!
I have evidence that Lamebook is violating Facebook's trademark. There's the
name. There's the fact that their logo is clearly a Facebook hand, only
reversed. There's the fact they're in the same basic industry and a realistic
chance that Lamebook could be reasonably confused to be connected to Facebook
by a normal person. I'm not sure what other evidence you're expecting, a
signed affidavit from John Roberts?
~~~
noglorp
>There's the fact they're in the same basic industry and a realistic chance
that Lamebook could be reasonably confused to be connected to Facebook by a
normal person.
The basic industry is the web? That is a stretch. Does that mean anything else
is in the basic industry of "physical things"?
Facebook is in the industry of social networking, while Lamebook is a
'lolpics' site targeted at funny things FROM Facebook. It seems like they are
clearly doing what Facebook says they are (attempting to piggyback on brand
recognition), using satire as a hook to get away with it.
Whether they will succeed I think depends on Facebook's ability to show that
this use will harm their name / confuse their customers, and that seems
doubtful. In a similar instance, Toys `R' Us successfully forced Guns `R' Us
to change names; the case was made that parents would think that Toys `R' Us
had a chain of gun stores!
~~~
jerf
[http://avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-trademark-a-similar-
name...](http://avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-trademark-a-similar-name-in-a-
different-indu-69533.html) , just to yank something out of Google very
quickly.
The law is not unfamiliar with your objection. In point of fact it has dealt
with this question rather frequently. And no, your made up pathological case
has no ground in the law, and no, I do not think the law would slice and dice
Facebook and Lamebook into separate industries. Separate industries are, as
the link says, things that can not possibly be confused for each other, like a
tax service and a farming implement company, not "a web-based social network"
and "a web site for satirizing social networks".
Taking your point to its logical conclusion, two companies _always_ differ on
some irrelevant dimension; the ability to find some trivial difference will
not protect you. It's the usual thing I think we computer programmers tend to
forget when arguing about law... you have to convince a _judge_ you're not in
the same industry. It's not a computer algorithm that can be gamed with a bit
of pathological input and a loudly-yelled "TAKE THAT!", despite how it may
sometimes appear.
Though your last paragraph entirely confuses me; you express doubt about the
court case going in Facebook's favor, then cite an example that I think is
actually sillier than the idea that Facebook might spin off a site or two?
------
andolanra
One thing which mystifies me about this whole situation is that Facebook
arguably benefits from Lamebook's presence. Lamebook isn't a substitute for
Facebook, it's a complement to Facebook. Someone who enjoys Lamebook for its
humor will probably try extra-hard to find entertaining scenarios among their
own Facebook friends, meaning that Lamebook increases Facebook's usage. Why
you'd want to shut down a company that gives you more traffic (and therefore
revenue) for a relatively unimportant and legally dubious reason is beyond me.
Not to mention, of course, the fact that Facebook is already invoking the
Streisand effect by going after Lamebook at all.
~~~
ma2rten
I can only guess someone at facebook thinks it's not good if their brand get
associated with lameness.
------
linuxhansl
Good job Facebook. I had never heard of Lamebook before... today.
------
Towle_
C'mon guys, everybody knows it's wrong to take a bunch of info and photos from
one facebook site and re-purpose them on another.
_Mere hours before lamebook was hacked together:_
"You are probably going to be a very successful computer person. But you're
going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a
nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be
true. It'll be because you're an asshole."
/irony
------
sk_0919
Why is Facebook getting distracted with this? Facebook has so much going for
itself, why censor a 2 men company and cause all the negative PR?
~~~
TeHCrAzY
They have turned over the company to business people and lawyers.
~~~
YuriNiyazov
Even if they hadn't, they did the right thing here. Note that Lamebook struck
with the lawsuit first. It would've been easy enough to ignore Lamebook and
just go after bigger trademark infringers on a case by case basis, but since
Lamebook struck first, they actually had to strike back, because if they
allowed that lawsuit to declare that Lamebook doesn't infringe on the Facebook
trademark, there would be 200 <something>-book sites tomorrow created by
copycats, and Facebook would be powerless against any of them because of the
Lamebook judgment.
------
topherjaynes
This is very unsettling. BUT, I was able to share the TC article about
lamebook on my wall. As long as there is still someway to voice dissent, even
if it is through a thirdparty site.
------
wiks
They did the same with my profile too. I wrote something relating to frastu-
facebook user and they disabled my account.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Flint Officials Could Have Prevented Lead Crisis for $80 a Day - jayess
http://www.mintpressnews.com/flint-officials-could-have-prevented-lead-crisis-for-80-a-day/213462/
======
bobby_9x
The problem is the lead in the pipes. Flint was mis-managed years before
Snyder appointed an emergency manager.
Even kwami kilpatrick, the ex-mayor of detroit who is now in prison, said he
knew about the water problems when he was in office.
~~~
artlogic
You've probably lived somewhere with leaded pipes. They are very common.
Across the country we are working to replace leaded pipes when we can, but the
problem is very complex. As it turns out, it's much more cost-effective to
treat water than embark upon giant infrastructure projects. Simply put, the
MDEQ, and the EPA should have known to treat the water, which would have kept
the lead from leeching into the water. Unfortunately, this wasn't done, and
now the pipes are damaged - perhaps beyond repair.
Despite the above, the water problems in Flint can't be attributed to a single
thing, but rather a culmination of failures in state and local government best
described as a problem of culture. Instead of a culture of openness and
communication, there are indications the state, and to a lesser degree, the
local government embraced a culture of only communicating good news and
spinning or squashing bad news - even internally.
------
Tempest1981
So they didn't follow the rules, and bad things happened? Each of us can
probably think of a time when we didn't follow the rules, usually for more
minor things (speed limits, etc).
Something about politicians/bureaucrats makes them bold enough to think that
rules don't apply to them, but on a totally different scale. I would like to
understand why -- does anybody know?
~~~
dalke
It's not just "the rules", but a cascading set of rules, and deliberately
ignoring or rejecting the feedback mechanisms which identity that "bad things"
happened.
It would be more like breaking the speed limit, ignoring the flashing sign
telling you your speed, outrunning the cop car, crashing through the barricade
set to stop you, not making the corner because you were going too fast, and
crashing into the schoolyard, all while on the phone explaining to the press
that the radar detector and speed cameras were miscalibrated and you were
going at the speed limit.
> "I would like to understand why."
That is too complicated for HN. Why are people loyal to a sports team, and in
some cases willing to overlook a coach's child molestation or player who is a
rapist or thief? Why did the US switch from the spoils system to a civil
service system? Why is there organizational retaliatory behavior towards
whistle-blowers or those that file sexual harassment complaints?
Even without a definite "why", I think these are all expressions of frequent
human tendencies. See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_of_reciprocity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_of_reciprocity)
for one starting place.
| {
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Sorry, Geeks, Microsoft Excel is Everywhere - csixty4
https://davidmichaelross.com/blog/microsoft-excel-is-everywhere/
======
ef4
As a geek, I actually think Excel is one of the few really nice things
Microsoft has created (I realize it wasn't the first spreadsheet, but MS gets
credit for taking it mainstream).
It's one of the few general-purpose programs that really empowers ordinary
users.
Excel is essentially a functional programming environment used by hundreds of
millions of people.
~~~
tel
Excel is the non-programmer's perl, basically. Simple, gets shit done,
woefully, terribly ugly at times, but it doesn't really matter. I'd love to
see the non-programmer's Python.
~~~
csixty4
Interestingly, someone recently posted on HN that they're trying to integrate
Python into Excel: <https://datanitro.com/blog/2013/2/12/future/>
Not ideal, but it's a step up from VBA.
~~~
run4yourlives
That's not really what he was saying though.
Python was being compared to Perl, and if excel is perl, he wants to see
Python, whatever that may be.
~~~
yakiv
Perl: "There is more than one way to do it."
Some ways Excel lets you organize data: (1) chaotically on one worksheet, (2)
with different data sets in different worksheets, (3) in tables
([http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/overview-of-
exc...](http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/overview-of-excel-tables-
HA010048546.aspx)).
Python: "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do
it."
Perhaps Excel/Perl*Python wouldn't have any of Excel's organization tools
exactly but would instead have only independent tables that could be made
larger and smaller as needed.
Edit after reading some comment about databases:
Perhaps this program would be a front-end of sorts for databases or could act
as one. That might be unrelated to the Perl/Python difference, but it could be
a useful feature.
------
Irregardless
The simplicity and flexibility of Excel make it great for one-offs and random
hack jobs that don't require a new application or full-fledged report. At the
same time, it has some minor idiosyncrasies that can be infuriating and make
me wary of trusting it in the hands of average end-users who need to
enter/analyze important data.
Automatic type conversion is my favorite. I can't even count the number of
times I've received Excel spreadsheets where data was completely lost because
of it. Leading zeroes at the beginning of your account number? Excel will
gladly chop those off for you. Order number looks like a date because they
used the year as a prefix? No worries, Excel will change that to a standard
date and completely forget the original format.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't think a business-oriented application should
favor convenience that much more than data integrity.
~~~
jackalope
This is why I'm continually amazed that Excel is used in business at all. I
use a command line program to record my hours and can report the time I've
worked on a project to the second. Unfortunately, my Excel-based timesheet
sucks at math, and shaves off time when it converts my HH:MM:SS totals to the
decimal figures (HH.x) required by payroll. It's so bad, sometimes the values
displayed in the columns don't add up to the displayed total if you enter them
in a calculator. No sweat, I only get paid for the displayed total, and at the
end of the year I compute the difference and add it to my last timesheet.
I can't imagine trusting my business finances to a program that can't deliver
a reasonable amount of precision. I wonder how many fortunes are made by
people well-placed enough to exploit Excel's weaknesses ("Hmmm, Excel shows
that we made only $10,000,000 at our bake sale. What should I do with this
leftover $700,000?" or "I can use Excel to show you that I owe you less money
than I actually do.").
~~~
mattmanser
Let's be clear, this is a type conversion issue for seconds, Excel's not going
to start adding up normal numbers strangely.
And the point of this article and the point he's trying to drive home is that
it lets non-programmers actually use their computers _for computing_.
For most businesses a home-brewed excel spreadsheet vs a $50,000 custom
program that any of us here wrote?
The harsh reality is that the Excel version written by Jane from accounting
who's the Excel whizz or even the smart college temp will probably be better
and cheaper than anything we could ever give them.
~~~
taproot
Until Jane leaves for greener pastures.
I do understand what you're saying though, there is a time, place, and trade
offs for everything related to computing.
(imho) _Most_ 'businessy' systems can and should start out as spreadsheets, it
lets the business people solve the problems with process design, and prove its
real-world value without bringing a costly developer in. The developers (like
myself) should be there to take the codified mess that results, clean it up,
improve usability, bring in more stability, and accountability. - Sadly, that
is rarely how things go.
~~~
TWAndrews
The problem is that by the time they've modified the spreadsheet app to solve
issues with process design, workflow, edge cases, it's an unholy mess that
nobody wants to touch.
------
baak
I absolutely hate Excel. It's not the number crunching that's the problem.
Database -> Excel, Excel -> Database issues are almost unavoidable. In 2
months of working with SSIS packages, I encountered every one of these
problems (I'm not the original author of this rant):
"Anyone who has worked with a database in a professional capacity for more
than 20 minutes should have a list of at least 10 reasons why Excel is a
monster. These probably include:
1\. The way it butchers postal codes that start with a leading zero, like the
town I grew up in (Granby, MA 01033 USA)
2\. Dates of any kind
3\. Serial numbers that have leading 0's (see #1)
4\. The JET database driver for Excel. One large WTF.
5\. SQL Server Integration Services Excel datasource. WTF squared.
6\. The f-ing "just put an apostrophe" workaround. WTF.
6\. a. The equally effective "format as text before you paste" workaround.
Gives the illusion of working, only to break later.
7\. Save as CSV, then reopen the CSV in Excel. Lots of magical things happen
there.
8\. While on the topic, CSV files, which are a whole WTF on their own.
9\. The Jet database driver's "type guess rows" registry entry. WTF factorial.
The root of all this: Excel makes things that look like tables, and tables are
useful for data. There is no other program that is as widespread AND makes
things that look like tables, so people use Excel to make tables of data. And
it's in fact really, really bad at that. It was designed for ad-hoc numerical
analysis and got appropriated as a database loading and reporting tool.
I think it's actually damaged the GNP of whole nations, this Excel program.
It'd be interesting to know how badly."
~~~
smackfu
Really, the main problem is that Excel (which has data types) is trying to
support CSV (which has no data types) as a pseudo-native format. If Excel
forced CSV files through the import wizard, and you could override a data type
for each column, it would solve most of the issues. Instead, each column is
implicitly treated as Auto and that fails in a lot of cases.
~~~
flatfilefan
last time I looked there was exactly such a wizard with the override
functionality
~~~
mbetter
There is, it just isn't invoked for a .csv file.
As someone who basically lives in Excel for 40 hours a week, I find my quality
of life to be much improved when I keep my text files tab delimited.
~~~
EEGuy
+0001
------
csharpminor
I really like excel, but the sad truth is that outside of the tech world, many
many people are incredibly un-tech-savy.
I used to be a contractor for a government agency (that will go unnamed).
Granted, it's the government, not the private sector but few people realize
that most computers owned by the federal government still run Windows XP.
Additionally, the approval process for getting new software usually takes 1-6
months. We're talking about installing something like Google Picasa.
Additionally, software updates would have to go through a clearance process,
leaving my computer completely vulnerable for weeks at a time while someone
(maybe) scrutinized an update to Flash.
It wasn't only the equipment – the sheer lack of ability with computers
surprised me. This wasn't an isolated incident – it seemed like everyone from
secretaries to managers with PhDs were barely above that scene from Zoolander.
Some examples:
We had one "analyst" who had never heard of pivot tables in excel. This is
someone whose job it is to analyze massive budgets. They were manually
selecting cells to see the count number at the bottom of the Excel window and
writing coordinates down on a piece of paper.
After having transferred to Google Applications for 9 months, there were still
several people who were surprised to learn that Chrome was a web browser. One
asked, "but how do you Google things?"
$1500 videochat system? Forget it, nobody knew how to use it and rarely ever
tried.
I think people are starting to wake up to the importance of technology, but I
really feel like employers should do more to test their problem solving
ability. I am by no means an expert with VB or the more advanced aspects of
excel. But my ability to research quickly and solve problems put me miles
ahead of everyone else.
~~~
hudibras
>Granted, it's the government, not the private sector but few people realize
that most computers owned by the federal government still run Windows XP.
Additionally, the approval process for getting new software usually takes 1-6
months.
We're still using IE7 in my government office. Good times...
------
cwbrandsma
<off-topic>To all the Font wonks out there who tell me about the importance of
the font to establish branding...blah,blah,blah. The font on this site, while
cool looking is very hard to read.</off-topic>
<on-topic> Something I tell junior devs when making reports, if the data can't
be exported to excel, then it isn't a report. It doesn't matter how cool your
filter/sorting capabilities are, how good you make the data look, your charts
could be beautiful to behold. If you can't export the data to excel then you
haven't done anything of value as far as the custom is concerned, because they
will ONLY look at the data if it is in Excel. In many companies, that is the
only feature that is used (the export to excel).
~~~
bcoates
That's been my experience too. It actually saves a lot of time figuring out
how to make fancy graphs and sort/filter/pivot functions--I just make nice
semantic HTML with <table>s of values. The users can point Excel at my URL and
it'll automagically turn it into a spreadsheet they already know how to use.
One thing I haven't figured out how to do is have a link on my page that
triggers an Excel HTML import operation on the current page.
~~~
encoderer
The last time I've done this I just have a link that sets the content type
header to something like text/excel (that's not it exactly i don't think,
google for it) and on Windows at least it always worked to open the page in
Excel. And if you use an HTML table, excel will just open it as a spreadsheet,
including any CSS text formatting you use.
Is that what you meant, or did I answer a different question?
~~~
jackalope
Unfortunately, Excel can't cope with some of the more modern authentication
systems being deployed on the web, so it's no longer as easy as providing a
URL that spits out an HTML table, if you have to protect sensitive data behind
a login (I think it can handle HTTP-Basic, but not anything requiring
redirects; this may have changed in recent versions).
------
JumpCrisscross
_Excel wasn’t the problem at JP Morgan. There was a reckless culture that
thumbed its nose at rules, ignored the guidance of review committees, and
tried to sweep things under the rug when they got caught. That would have
happened whether the models were written in Excel or Ruby._
If anything, Excel promotes transparency in finance by allowing more people to
read the "source" (even the bankers). Cutely named forgotten programmes
written in J were a more fecund source of problems.
~~~
doppenhe
<disclosure>I work for Microsoft, specifically I am a Program Manager on the
Windows Excel team </disclosure>
This is actually something we take very seriously and we have been building
tools to improve this. Excel 2013 actually shipped with a compliance add-in.
Here is some more info: [http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-
excel/archive/2012/09/13...](http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-
excel/archive/2012/09/13/introducing-spreadsheet-controls-in-office-2013.aspx)
~~~
cleverjake
Wow, thank you for that. I am honestly fascinated by this.
------
sctgrhm
Financial analyst here (and front end dev geek / enthusiast). It’s been
interesting to see a number of recent HN articles related to Excel. I work for
a Global 500 manufacturing company and can assure that Excel supports a large
number of business processes and decisions.
Raw data is often stored in proprietary OLAP data stores which are provide a
single version of the “truth”. The financial data is retrieved through the
vendor’s Excel add-ins. Analysts can then use Excel’s basic functionality to
transform and enrich the data and finally output it in a format suitable to be
presented to decision makers.
Having a decent knowledge of web technologies, I’m often frustrated not to
have a shiny web app that will automagically show the data in stunning tables
and graphs (e.g. d3.js bliss). For me, the main reason we don’t see proper
“developer made” applications in large corporations is that they do not allow
for quick and fast iteration and adaptations. Here is a very typical situation
in my job : A manager bursts into my office to ask the following : “Hey, I
know we usually compare our XYZ monthly performance to our prior year
performance and to our last forecast. Could you compare add in a comparison
between the year end run rate and forecast ? Oh, and could you also a express
XYZ as a percentage of ABC, it could be insightful. Thanks ! ... don’t work
too late.”
After a couple of Excel ninja moves : job done, manager happy, business
decisions made. If the data is wrong, I'm responsible, not the mistyped Excel
formulae.
~~~
mdda
"... I’m often frustrated not to have a shiny web app that will automagically
show the data in stunning tables and graphs (e.g. d3.js bliss). " : Are you
looking for a web interface for manipulating OLAP data? (something like
<http://www.tableausoftware.com/olap>)?
------
mprovost
I've always been a bit perplexed that there isn't a spreadsheet as good as 123
(ie, 1980s technology) as a standard part of Linux distributions. There is a
massive blind spot in the open source world around spreadsheets. As far as I
can tell it's down to the geeks writing open source tools not being interested
in solving business problems and focusing on tools for working with code and
manipulating data in text format, not cells. Which is understandable, you
write tools for free for your own needs and you get paid to write tools for
others. So businesses pay Microsoft for Excel.
~~~
apapli
OpenOffice?
~~~
mprovost
I meant like a 123 (or even Visicalc) clone that would run in a terminal. It
seems like such a basic thing that has existed on PCs for so long (in fact
even predates the IBM PC) so why did it have to wait for Staroffice/Sun to
make a GUI version? And there still is no decent text mode spreadsheet that
can run over SSH. Even a 1:1 123 clone would be perfectly functional.
------
benvanderbeek
My company's part numbers are in the form 00-0000. After enough conversations
about how to convert back to this format from the date Excel changes it to,
we've finally just decided to change our sku format. A rolling change though,
so we'll still be dealing with it till the current 5k sku's are all EOL.
I also hate the scientific notation default, in addition to the leading zero.
Guess what, UPC's exist and no one wants them in scientific notation.
~~~
mpyne
Format the cell as Text first? Enter the UPC with a leading ' to force
intepretation as Text?
If you're changing SKUs anyways you may want to change it to have a letter to
that Excel "guesses" correctly by default.
~~~
kyllo
But when someone sends you a CSV file (a very common format for database
exports and EDI), Excel does the type conversions automatically when you open
it. You don't get a chance to change the cell format to Text beforehand. The '
workaround is a huge time-waster if you are dealing with a large amount of
data, plus it screws up the file for use outside of Excel.
There really needs to be an option to turn off all type conversion globally
for all files in Excel.
~~~
srdev
Rather than open it directly in Excel, open a blank workbook and use the data
import functionality. This lets you specify the type of each column.
Its not a perfect solution, but its a passable work-around.
~~~
kyllo
This works when you have control of the data.
The real problem arises when you ask someone to send you data in CSV format.
If, in between exporting it from their database and sending it to you, they
happened to open and save it in Excel, you will get corrupted data. Usually
the sender is blissfully unaware of what Excel's automatic type conversion
does to their data.
CSV has been made unreliable as a format for data exchange between companies
(aka EDI) largely because Microsoft decided that CSV files should always be
opened in Excel by default in Windows. At the very least they should turn
automatic type conversion off for CSVs.
------
bane
In an old job I had to slice and dice lots and lots and lots of spreadsheets
and csv dumps -- almost all one offs, or in ways that were one offs.
Sure I could hack up some scripts to do that work, but almost everytime it was
quicker and easier to just use Excel as a handy-dandy swiss army knife to do
all kinds of bulk data processing.
It's a stupid good tool that gets you almost dangerously far with a modicum of
effort and no additional cost.
Doing the same work any other way would have meant keeping 3 or 4 engineers on
staff full-time banging out code and managing databases. I or another guy on
my team were able to do everything we needed in less than an hour a day, then
load the results into an appropriate analysis tool.
Quite often the appropriate analysis tool was also Excel.
------
elliotanderson
The start of the article infers that the London Whale Trade was caused by
manual handling of data between spreadsheets.
The real reason came down to a flaw in the formula they were using. From the
JP Morgan report:
... a decision was made to stop using the Basel II.5 model and not to rely on it
for purposes of reporting CIO VaR in the Firm’s first-quarter Form 10-Q.
Following that decision, further errors were discovered in the Basel II.5 model,
including, most significantly, an operational error in the calculation of the
relative changes in hazard rates and correlation estimates.
*Specifically, after subtracting the old rate from the new rate, the spreadsheet
divided by their sum instead of their average, as the modeler had intended.*
This error likely had the effect of muting volatility by a factor of two and
of lowering the VaR.... It also remains unclear when this error was
introduced in the calculation.
Source: [http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-12/how-rookie-excel-
er...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-12/how-rookie-excel-error-led-
jpmorgan-misreport-its-var-years)
~~~
jessaustin
The whole concept of VaR is an industry-wide consensus hallucination. Even if
you do it right you're doing it wrong.
But to your point, if this formula had been in a single library procedure in
version control rather than pasted and repasted into various dingy corners of
various spreadsheets, this sort of error would have been less likely. Manual
handling of formulas is at least as dangerous as manual handling of data.
------
novocaine7
I work for a mid-sized financial software company and am involved with dev on
a mature, used in production, in-house Excel clone.
Initially I figured this was about the craziest thing possible, but over time
I've come to realise the company derives genuine competitive advantage from
this system because
1\. it allows actuaries to program calculators in a language and environment
that they are comfortable with. It is a lot easier to find finance guys that
do excel than ones that can seriously program.
2\. tbh, excel is often a really good tool for the job because it allows
visualization of data as you work. If you work often with projections it kills
the alternatives like numpy, matlab etc.
The system is pretty advanced and has been used in production for about 8 or
so years. We have an interpretive runtime for use during dev and also a static
compiler that generates c++ and creates a shared library per sheet.
Some interesting points about implementing excel:
* Most functional languages do lazy evaluation on the assumption that there's a fair amount of arguments that won't be evaluated. We find that in excel all arguments are almost always used, so lazy evaluation and thunks just add overhead if you use them in all cases. We just have special cases for IF and OR et al.
* Performance is all about cell caching - i.e. memoization - but you only really have performance problems if you want to do root finding monte carlo sims online (we do). We have a dependency tracking system so cached cells are selectively flushed only when a cell they depend on changes.
* the system generates very large amounts of static c++, sometimes hundreds of thousands of lines for one sheet - this can be necessary when the sheet has millions of cells, even though we scan for similar formulas and factor them into single functions to improve spatial locality. MSVC can compile a million line .cpp in about 5 minutes using about 1gb ram - gcc 4.6 would use all the memory on my 8gb machine and swap ad infinitum (but if you split the files it is fine).
------
unsignedint
I really don't mind people sending me stuff in a spreadsheet, if it's
something that warrants such use.
Things like "I’ve had screenshots pasted into Excel and attached to an email.
Excel is an ubiquitous file format" mentioned in the article is frustrating as
well, as particularly in Japan, there's this weird practice of using it as
graphing paper, by making each cell into tiny squares, and use it as free-form
word processor alternative. (I'd say, PowerPoint would work better for this --
here's the thing, lowest tier of MS Office in Japan doesn't ship with
PowerPoint, ugh.) Some of these misuses are actually harmful -- "graphing
paper" usage of Excel causes a lot of trouble when it comes to printing, and
long-term maintaining, and there's no document structures in such use.
------
politician
Here's one thing I don't understand. Geeks love Smalltalk image-based
persistence. Geeks hate Excel documents. [1] Don't they have the same
problems? How is the program state in a Smalltalk image version-controlled? Is
that even a sensible question?
[1] generalization, do not take too seriously.
~~~
dragonwriter
> Here's one thing I don't understand. Geeks love Smalltalk image-based
> persistence. Geeks hate Excel documents. Don't they have the same problems?
They have neither the same benefits nor the same problems, though they have
some overlap in each.
Also both the "Geeks love Smalltalk" and "Geeks hate Excel" generalizations
are over-generalizations, and the set of geeks for whom the former is valid
are not the same set of geeks for whom the latter is valid (though, again,
there is some overlap.)
------
argc
I have worked in both a bioinformatics lab at University and a medical devices
company. At both places, I have seen excel used for a HUGE amount of tasks by
biologists, business people, software testers (from non-programming
backgrounds) and programmers. It was used as a tool, along with perl, php,
c/c++... depending on the level of complexity. Its just damn useful and
everyone knows how to use it.
~~~
bbgm
While we are on the subject of excel and bioinformatics
[http://nsaunders.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/gene-name-
errors-a...](http://nsaunders.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/gene-name-errors-and-
excel-lessons-not-learned/)
[http://dontuseexcel.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/dont-use-
excel-...](http://dontuseexcel.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/dont-use-excel-for-
biological-data/)
I like Excel for what it is supposed to be used for, and it remains the only
MS product I use cause it does its job well. But it has limits, which are all
too frequently abused.
~~~
argc
Very interesting. I wonder what open source solutions there are that could
supplant the use of excel by non-programmers (and programmers) in such a
variety of fields. Something slightly less opinionated and slightly more
malleable.. and just as simple to use. If there isn't something, there
probably should be. I think GUI is a must if its going to overtake excel.
------
demian
Next time a lawyer, a doctor or an architect tells me his/her professional
opinion, I'm going to answer them "sorry GEEK, that's the way it is!"
------
Harkins
"Sorry?" It is wonderful. People make great things and run their businesses on
Excel. It has its faults and people are not programmers, but it makes an
incredible percentage of businesses run.
------
cloudout
Excel is still used because it has High Operating Range with a Low Barrier to
Entry. Someone can learn how to do simple tasks in 5 minutes, while advanced
users can write macros. You can build a simple calculator or a complicated
model without going through a programmers learning curve; where, you've
traditionally had to learn multiple concepts before you can print "Hello
World".
------
fencepost
Sneering at Excel is a sign of someone who doesn't understand the goals of
business and in many cases why they're employed. They aren't employed to code
nice apps in $language, that's HOW they do their job of making the business
run more smoothly.
I've built "apps" in Excel - simple stupid crap for doctors to enter hospital
charges, etc. There's no database backend, lookup is "is there already a sheet
for this patient?" Creating a new sheet is clicking the shortcut to the
template and entering the patient's name, the hospital and the month, saving
is closing and accepting the generated file name. Training was minimal,
backend is office staff, and it's lasted through 2 separate billing systems.
Development was simple form layout, locking cells, adding a few dropdown lists
to populate cells, and setting up a couple of button/autoclose vbscript
macros.
Cheap, simple, lets doctors capture charges that are worth more in one week
than I was paid for the development 5+ years ago.
------
achy
I came to HN as a distraction from the mind wrenching exercise of compiling 5
different copies of excel documents where everyone has butchered their version
in a different, horrifying way. Luckily, this is only used to keep track of
procurement data for a billion dollar engineering project... Excel is a
powerful, but too easily abused, tool.
------
fencepost
An Excel form development tip: select the entire sheet and set the column
width to 1. Merge cells that users will be entering in. Lock all non-input
cells. Hide empty areas beside/below. Yes, it looks like a printed form. Users
_understand_ printed forms.
------
draftable
I used to work for a company that used a series of excel sheets to calculate
the price of investment funds. Sure, it was a primitive technique and
sometimes a real pain in the ass, but it gave us the flexibility to make
adjustments as needed.
While I was there they were beginning to transition to a Microsoft Dynamics
based system, which turned out to be a nightmare. Maybe it was a case of bad
developers, but the guys working on this system seemed oblivious to the actual
mechanics of what they needed to build.
When you’re working with time sensitive data, making a few adjustments in
excel rather than logging requests to have some code fixed or updated can make
a lot more sense.
------
loudmax
I don't have strong feelings about people using Excel to get things done. It's
a GUI for data processing that could otherwise be done in the shell. That's
fair because I wouldn't expect normal people to learn the amount of
programming you'd need to match what you can do in Excel.
The problem I have with it is the same for any data in a proprietary format:
It needs to be exported to something else before it can be manipulated.
LibreOffice seems to do a good job of decoding .xlsx files so it's usually not
too much of an issue. When there's functionality in a spreadsheet that can't
be interpreted by an open source equivalent, then it becomes a problem.
------
kyllo
I think in the other thread about this, someone posted something to the effect
that the spreadsheet with the flawed formula was not questioned or tested
because it provided justification for the kind of reckless, short-sighted
risk-taking behavior that the decisionmakers at the bank wanted to promote
anyway. Spot-on. In organizations like this, the decisionmakers will always
massage models and abuse statistics to support the decision they already know
they want to make anyway. That's why it's important that they are forced into
a structure where testing and oversight are required.
------
clintboxe
I'm a developer at a fortune 500 company focusing on Business Intelligence. We
spent 2 years pumping out report after report, dashboard after dashboard on a
new BI web platform. The first question always asked was "How do I get it in
Excel?" Luckily after years of hearing this, IT management acquiesced and I am
now in the middle of rolling out a data virtualization platform that allows
users to connect directly with Excel to "virtual" databases that insulate them
from having to write complex SQL. Lesson? You must bow down to Excel.
~~~
doppenhe
We should talk i design the bi tools inside excel and would love to understand
your scenarios. Twitter: doppenhe
------
rednukleus
As someone who works in the financial services industry, I think that all of
the MS Office applications are great - much better than the open source
alternatives (although I wish this wasn't true).
I also want to be the lone voice here in saying that I also think that Windows
is excellent, and is much easier to use than OS X and Linux (and I've used
them all) for everything except programming. This is a very unpopular opinion
on Hacker News, but in the real world a lot of people are like me, agree with
me, and it is worth bearing this in mind.
~~~
jessaustin
_in the financial services industry... in the real world_
You're not trying to tell us there's some overlap between these two places are
you?
------
deltasquared
I wonder if by geeks, the OP means "people who want to get the correct answer
consistently."
------
colkassad
>VisiCalc inspired Lotus 123, a similar program for IBM PCs. Bosses were much
more willing to order a PC for their staff than something built by California
hippies. As they used to say, you’ll never get fired for buying IBM.
Is this really true? I don't remember this being a widely held viewpoint but
then again I was 10 years old. Back then, normal people didn't know who Steve
Jobs was, never mind his damn-hippy ways.
~~~
brcrth
My impression is that Apple II/VisiCalc were used by small/personal business
and Lotus 123 was for big corporations/industry. But I might be wrong since I
wasn't even born on that period.
------
giardini
Given that perhaps 90% of Excel spreadsheets have errors I fail to see that
Excel is a good or useful tool. Nicholas Taleb warns against the use of
constructs (e.g., value at risk) that give false confidence to the user. Excel
unfortunately appears to be such a tool. I believe most Excel users would deny
that _their_ spreadsheets have significant errors notwithstanding strong
evidence to the contrary.
~~~
mbetter
Your comment is just darling. "Given that perhaps 90% of Excel spreadsheets
have errors ..." -- a completely made up statistic leads to -- "I fail to see
that Excel is a good or useful tool." -- a conclusion that doesn't even follow
from your made up evidence, even if it were true.
Nicholas Taleb would be rolling over in his grave, if he was dead.
~~~
giardini
"darling"? "made up evidence"? Are you employed by Microsoft?
Others may have provided this URL: "What We Know About Spreadsheet Errors" by
Raymond R. Panko <http://panko.shidler.hawaii.edu/ssr/Mypapers/whatknow.htm>
The European Spreadsheet Risks Interest Group: <http://www.eusprig.org/>
Grammar correction: "if he was dead." <\--- _were_ dead, _were_ dead!
Luckily he's very much alive. From Nicholas Taleb's website at
<http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/jorion.html>
"My refutation of the VAR does not mean that I am against quantitative risk
management - having spent all of my adult life as a quantitative trader, I
learned the hard way the fails of such methods. I am simply against the
application of unseasonned quantitative methods."
Use of a paradigm that has such a high error rate is, at the very least, an
"unseasoned quantitative method".
~~~
mbetter
"These error rates, although troubling, are in line with those in programming
and other human cognitive domains."
I take it you are against software in general, then.
------
smortaz
If you like (or must use :)) Excel and like Python, we built a little two way,
live bridge between Visual Studio & Excel. Free/OSS. Short video here:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3QKuFugWk&hd=1](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3QKuFugWk&hd=1)
; download at <http://pytools.codeplex.com>
------
bfwi
A year ago I graduated and started working in the corporate world. Damn
Windows and MS Office all around. I realize now, that at university I was
living in a bubble of nice, free software. And if you had a problem you
programmed your way out of it. Now I use Excel all the time.
Good thing I have side projects.
~~~
shmerl
It really depends on the corporate world. Some uses free software as well.
~~~
cema
I think the point of the parent comment was not about software being free but
by being able, quote, "to program[...] your way out of it". Which I think is
an important argument for or against Excel (or many other programs) depending
on whether we talk about programming users or non-programming users.
~~~
shmerl
Right. But probably I was just lucky enough never to encounter such kind of
corporate world which uses Excel (or any other spread sheet software for that
matter) in such weird fashion.
------
keypusher
I don't think many programmers think Excel is a bad tool. Excel is a great
tool for what it does. But, Excel is not a database. And when an Excel
spreadsheet actually becomes your business's application, that's when you have
problems (in my opinion).
------
EEGuy
Doubtless there are more sophisticated ways to do this, but for a quick one-
off, _manual_ validation test on tabular data presented by a web page, I
scrape it (highlight it) off the web page, hit ^C, paste to a text editor, do
some reformatting, then paste to an empty sheet.
Then I do my checksums of the page's presentation in the sheet. Find a bug, go
to the SQL in the back end, fix the cause, write a little (manually run) SQL
validation test test for that case, then cycle through it all again until the
bugs are out and a nice little suite of validation tests in SQL. Really nice
to have Excel, where I can point-and-click to write sums.
------
cadr
For an overview of some of the issues with current usage of spreadsheets in
business - <http://www.eusprig.org/basic-research.htm>
They have a conference just about spreadsheet risk.
~~~
Spooky23
That is not spreadsheet risk, it's business process risk. You address risk by
applying controls.
My old boss was a former labor statistician. His job 40 years ago was
basically producing reports by having sets of data tabulated (aka "sending a
job to a pool of people with big mechanical calculators") analyzing the data,
and sending it somewhere else to be compiled into some report that was shipped
to various places. They had people randomly sampling calculations for key or
other errors. Other people were sampling the quality of his analysis and yet
others were proofreading and double-checking the material prepared for print
for typographical errors. The problem there was that building that process
required thousands of people and a very rigid procedural setup to ensure
consistency.
Computers changed all of that, and ultimately, all of that checking and re-
checking was replaced by Excel. But that doesn't mean that you don't but a
process around financial activities. You still need checks and balances.
All of these banks made decisions that speed to market for trading was worth
the "risk" -- in this case that incompetent or malevolent traders can
potentially put the bank out of business. The management accepts this risk
because they don't bear ANY downside risk, as the bank is ineffectively
regulated corporation. In the days when investment houses were partnerships,
there were much tighter controls, as failure of the firm would bankrupt the
partners.
Blaming Excel for this is absurd.
------
touristtam
Excel has been used and abused past it usefulness in the 'Big (Monkey)
Business';
Any tailored software has to go through the constant scrutiny of IT managers
and bean counters that don't understand anything and are over impatient while
a donkey can 'code' a couple of function in Excel. Excel DOES NOT take into
account user abuse and collaboration between them, and I don't blame it. But
this is a networked world and not anymore a collection of work station where
data is better passed from one user to another one via the mean of a floppy
disk.....
The use of tools is reflecting the cerebral activity level of its user base.
------
EEGuy
Untouchable algorithmic integrity? History tracking? Data not easily
corruptible by users? Accuracy in decimal amounts past 12 to 14 significant
digits, particularly if fractionals involved? Huge data volumes? Mind-numbing
repetitive tasks?
Excel for that? No. Code for that? Yes.
Agility? Quick checksums? Looking for errors? Ad-hoc analysis?
Excel for that? Yes! Code for that? Depends on whether I have to do it again,
or if it gets big.
Ad-hoc correlations for equality checking? I'll take a FULL OUTER JOIN over
criss-crossing cranky VLOOKUP(...)s any day.
------
Raydric
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi0qUZCz6F0>
------
jessaustin
I find I'm using Google Sheets for everything I used to use Excel for. It's
easier to script, much easier to share, and if necessary it will export to
Excel. I haven't run into anything I need that it won't do.
Of course it wouldn't be ideal for a business with a lot of legacy stuff in
Excel.
------
njharman
RANT you don't need to read, but I have to write.
I recently have the "opportunity" to use Windows and MS office products after
10year or more absence. And Holy Fuck does MS suck at making usable software
products. Almost every single UI/UX choice they made is wrong. They ask for
confirmation when it's uneeded, they blithely fuck shit up without
confirmation when should ask. 4 bazillion tab bars filled with crap. Simple
things are hard to find or do, every suggestion / guess is wrong. Things they
should guess (such as ',' is the delmeter when importing a file ending with
.csv and filled with csv data) they don't. On and on.
Really the most frustrating experience since trying to buy a Nexus 4.
The only reason most people don't suffer this is they've been slowly
acclimated to this crap over many years of Office's evolution to below the
bottom.
The other MS product I use regularly, xbox and mobile glass or whatever it's
called, both also have fucking horrible UI. But half of that is them wanting
to force thinly veiled ads and up sells at you.
------
jumby
Two words: pivot tables
------
Beltiras
My beef is: Why Excel?
It's not like you can't script Libreoffice spreadsheets, or OpenOffice, or for
that matter Docs Calc sheets.
Why does it need to eat a big part of our budget?
------
akashshah
There are some non-programmers in my team who use excel to generate bash
scripts because they find the bash for-loop syntax too hard
------
zurn
I use Python for one-off data munging and don't know spreadsheets. Can someone
shed some light on what I'm missing?
------
importednoob
Excel: Microsoft's greatest achievement.
------
Gravityloss
Confuses Excel with csv.
------
mtgx
As Android and iOS go to become the #1 and #2 platforms in the future, I don't
see Office remaining that relevant in the future, even if they port it to
those platforms.
~~~
Spooky23
What is the replacement for Excel on iOS?
Applying the "death of the PC" mantra to all things gets old. Things like
multi-tasking, having access to a filesystem, embedding different types of
documents is a "feature" that is really useful to people doing actual work.
One of my duties a couple of years ago was doing budgeting and rate-setting
for a $50M IT business. A rich spreadsheet like Excel was an essential part of
the that process, and there is no replacement platform out there that is going
to replace that category of app. (You may be able substitute LibreOffice or
something.)
------
joedev
What's to be "Sorry" about? I don't get it.
------
martinced
Sorry, David Michael Ross (apparently you love your name enough to show it
using big fonts on your site so I put in in full here),
{iOS,Android,Linux,Java,OracleDB,...} is Everywhere.
What is TFA's point by using such a linkbait title? My home router (a "gift"
from my ISP in exchange of a subscription) is running Linux. My Internet TV
decoder is running Linux + Java. My phone runs iOS and my girlfriend's phone
runs iOS. We have two Mac computers here (and a Linux one but that isn't
common).
You can hardly make an electronic money payment without having Java involved
in the process at some point (including to generate COBOL on the fly!).
Hundreds of millions of people (really ?) are using spreadsheets? So what:
there are hundreds of millions of people carrying Java smartcard in their
pockets daily. There are hundreds of millions of people using cellphones.
There are billions of people using a browser daily.
What is the point about spreadsheet? We get it: people need to fill taxes,
compute "stuff", etc.
We also understand that the corporate world (representing less than 50% of a
country's GDP but being very "big-mouthed") uses Excel.
Just like the corporate world is totally and utterly dominated by solutions
like SAP and its army of consultant writing ABAP and Java code to interface
with SAP.
Is Microsoft is still dictating the rules of the entire IT game because Excel
is a spreadsheet software?
Is that why such linkbaits are posted? Because we like to know that it's
possible that companies like Apple and Google (two places where you're
probably not seeing a lot of "Excel" compared to the other stuff you'll see
the people there working with) can come tomorrow and change the world?
But, no, we should all be in admiration because spreadsheets are used in the
"real corporate world" (and because of course we should bow in front of the
corporate world, because the only business is in corporate right!?) and
because Excel has a huge market share amongst the various spreadsheets
software (I do certainly see Google Docs making inroads that said).
Seriously: what's the point!?
What's next!?: "Sorry, nerds, Microsoft Word is everywhere"
Or "Sorry, hackers, Internet Explorer is everywhere"
Or "Sorry, crackes, Microsoft Windows is still present on hundreds of millions
of PCs".
Really? What is the point?
That we should have give up programming because every single programming need
out there can be filled by a corporate user knowing how to enter an IF/ELSE in
a spreadsheet!?
I'm seriously confused by these articles and the fact that people do still
upvote the blatant linkbait.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ontop – A Virtual Knowledge Graph System - hmottestad
https://ontop-vkg.org
======
mark_l_watson
Looks interesting. Years ago, I experimented with the D2RQ project that does
something similar.
It would be interesting to see a benchmark with something like WikiData or
DBPedia converted to a relational database and compared with a RDF store like
Virtuoso. Compare query speed, memory use, and index size on disk. Also seeing
a comparison of bulk data load times.
Anyway, looks like a cool project!
~~~
jerven
The basic idea was done in a nice study by Orri Erling at the time working on
virtuoso (now Facebook presto). Which indeed shows the major benefits of
recovering a physical schema.
[http://www.www2015.it/documents/proceedings/proceedings/p864...](http://www.www2015.it/documents/proceedings/proceedings/p864.pdf)
------
hmottestad
Gives you unified access to all your data spread across all your relational
databases.
Supports: PostgreSQL, MySQL, SQL server, Oracle and DB2
Allows you to query across all these databases through a unified interface.
Supports reasoning to allow for concepts to be modelled differently in each
relational database, but be queried through a single model. This means that
developers higher up the food chain don't need to know that the old DB2
instance from 2005 that stores experimental turbine data uses a new table per
turbine while the new Oracle db uses a single table with column to specify the
turbine instead.
------
kendallgclark
Gotta say, Stardog's been shipping a virtualization-powered Knowledge Graph
platform since 2014...
~~~
hmottestad
I've always wondered if the Stardog implementation is based on the work done
by Ontop? I can see from the history of Ontop that they also have releases
dating back to 2014.
~~~
guohuixiao
Indeed, the first implementation of VKG in Stardog v4 in 2014 shipped with
Ontop v1.16. Since then, Ontop has evolved and it improved a lot in terms of
features and performance.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Report: NSA defeats many encryption efforts - Baustin
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/090513-report-nsa-defeats-many-encryption-273543.html?hpg1=bn
======
greenyoda
This article is just blogspam. The original article from the NY Times that it
refers to has already been posted:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6336178](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6336178)
~~~
Baustin
Sorry about that - you're right, I should have gone through to the original
source. Didn't realize it was already posted. Thanks for clearing up!
------
X-Istence
So now any standards in the 2006 NIST requirements are suspect ...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Daily discovery of 600+ startup tool gems; Find the best options for your needs - jwtuckr
Hi everyone!<p>The startup environment today is changing at an incredible pace. New technologies, methods, and processes are being formed practically by the hour, and it can be tough to know which things can be applicable to your unique startup. That's why we created Startup Tool Shop (https://www.startuptoolshop.com).<p>Startup Tool Shop is a database of tools, updated daily, that are useful to startups.<p>Each resource is submitted, curated, and rated by our user community.<p>We have 600+ tools that can help grow your next big idea, expertly organized for simple access by you. There are 6 Toolkits (seeing a theme here?) services can be placed into. They are: Learning, Marketing, Money, Product Development, Operations, and Team. Then, each tool can be further defined by applying tags, of which there are over 270 to choose from!<p>Each day users, startups, and entrepreneurs like you post their favorite finds, and if approved, will be added to the database and featured on the homepage the next morning.<p>This is our answer to helping our entrepreneurial family. There are so, SO many resources we all haven't heard of out there that are just waiting to be found that would be perfect for achieving our startup goals, with new ones being developed all the time!
No one should have to search all over the internet for what they need. Let's bring everything here, in one place, where the best ones can rise to the top.<p>Thanks so much!<p>Would love to hear your thoughts!<p>p.s.- We have lot's of love on Twitter (@startuptoolshop) and Facebook and we would love to connect with you on it! :-)
======
codecondo
You can employ much better marketing methods, this is just blatant screaming
for attention -- especially if you analyze the first paragraph after the
hello, you and I both know this.
Fake it till you make it... works for some.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A decade's worth of IPv4 addresses - r11t
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/01/dont-publish-the-decade-in-ipv4-addresses.ars
======
jacquesm
Just like with any other scarce item we'll see more and more tricks to wring
the last out of what we've got.
The good news is that an IP address that is given out can be reclaimed, so
it's not like oil or some other finite substance in a sense that once used it
stays used for ever.
I'd expect a couple of stop-gap measures before we're finally forced to switch
to something better:
- a premium on releasing your DHCP lease while you sleep
- pressure from colocation facilities to reduce the
number of IPs assigned to a single host
- consolidation of IP addresses for hosting providers
behind NAT'ing routers
- more usage of ports vs IP addresses since that
effectively allows you to extend the 32 bit field
in to a 48 bit field
- a price set on the usage of an IP
Then, only when we're really scraping the bottom we'll switch and it will cost
a fortune compared to what a switch in '96 would have cost.
Typical human behaviour, we're doing it with oil I don't see why IP addresses
would be any different, in fact I think we'll learn a lot about how the energy
situation will develop from monitoring this closely.
------
NathanKP
I wish they had a graph showing the growth by year of IPv4 usage and how that
compares to the amount of space available with IPv6.
Edit #1: I found one interesting comparison graph:
[http://www.caida.org/research/topology/as_core_network/pics/...](http://www.caida.org/research/topology/as_core_network/pics/ascore-
ipv4-ipv6.200903_poster_1250x850.png)
Edit #2: Another interesting map which has a "You are here" marker:
<http://icicle.dylex.net/~ipmap/>
And a presentation with a good number of graphs showing demand and growth over
the past 5-10 years.
<http://www.potaroo.net/presentations/2006-06-28-ipv4.pdf>
~~~
wmf
_I wish they had a graph showing the growth by year of IPv4 usage and how that
compares to the amount of space available with IPv6._
It would probably look like a map of the solar system, since IPv6 is
astronomically large compared to IPv4.
BTW, Huston's latest trends and predictions are at <http://ipv4.potaroo.net/>
(not completely down, but incredibly slow).
------
bretpiatt
The switch of mobile devices from 2G/3G technology using IPv4 to LTE (aka 4G)
using IPv6 will fix a large amount of this, "As IPv4 increasingly became the
de facto standard for networked digital communication, the cost of embedding
substantial computing power into handheld devices dropped. Mobile phones have
become viable Internet hosts. New specifications of 4G devices require IPv6
addressing."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_address_exhaustion#Mobile_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_address_exhaustion#Mobile_devices)
IPv4 runs as a subset of IPv6 for those of you not into the IP stuff too deep.
IPv6 devices can talk to IPv4 through border devices similar to NAT today so
we can use "private" RFC1918 addresses.
------
devicenull
In a way, isn't this kind of good? We're always going to be running short
until the move to IPv6, and I've heard a number of consumer internet providers
are starting to provide IPv6 addresses upon request.
Running out is going to happen eventually, so it might as well happen sooner,
rather then later.
~~~
wmf
I think a predictable time is better than sooner. If you have IPv6 in your
2012 budget then having to do it earlier might be a problem.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The [USA] Government is Profiling You - Create
http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/cis/videos/21814-the-government-is-profiling-you
======
techtalsky
I'm feeling extremely impotent at this point to cause any meaningful change on
this issue. It seems like the deck is stacked. We have the ACLU and the EFF
but it increasingly seems like a war that can't be won. We're being slowly
inured to total surveillance and it doesn't seem like there's any way to turn
back the clock. It seems like the furor will die down over this particular
issue even though it seems obvious to me that there's almost certainly more
odious levels of data collection than what the government was currently caught
doing. Is there ANY solution or is this the new reality?
~~~
jeremysmyth
The government has to work within the law. This might not sound right, but
they do. The current furore is more to do with how they interpret the law, and
what the law is. So, two things you can do:
* Support organisations who can work within the law and know it better than you do, like the EFF and ORG
* Get involved at a more local level with those who _make_ the law - your congressional representatives and their staff
It's a big world, and a big country, and you might not be able to affect the
executive directly (after all that's what's doing the thing that's making us
feel uncomfortable now), but the reason there are three branches of government
is to limit the executive, and as individuals we can do that by _using_ the
law (that's what the EFF does), and by _influencing_ the law, through your
representatives.
~~~
techtalsky
This is a very small comfort when the government gets to have "classified"
interpretations of the law.
~~~
jeremysmyth
"EFF Takes Fight Against Secret Surveillance Law to Federal Court"
[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/03/sunshine-week-eff-
take...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/03/sunshine-week-eff-takes-fight-
against-secret-surveillance-law-federal-court)
The EFF is well staffed with people who know what they're doing. They're on
our side.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Busy Person’s Lies - dwynings
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/opinion/sunday/the-busy-persons-lies.html?_r=1
======
Jtsummers
I did an analysis on my own time once, ignoring the breakdown of my work day
and just focusing on overall time available:
1130-0000 - prepare for bed, relax
0000-0600 - sleep (roughly)
0600-0700 - stuff (shower, shave, personal email)
0700-1630 - work + lunch + commutes
So I had 7 hours each day I was "leaving on the table". Most of it was spent
on TV or video games, possibly socializing. I felt exhausted from work so I
didn't want to do anything. But realizing I was "wasting"[0] 35 hours a week
of my time. Reprioritized, started going to the gym, setting aside the block
between work and gym for language study or reading. By the time the gym is
done, while I may be tired, I'm in a totally different mental frame from work
and can actually get work done on my side projects or more reading or more
socializing (that shower after leaves me feeling refreshed, even when I feel
like I've been hit by a freight train after BJJ takedown practices).
[0] In the sense that I had things I wanted to do but they never got completed
due to poor prioritization.
~~~
lacampbell
_0000-0600 - sleep (roughly)_
I must admit I am always a bit jealous of people like you who can function on
6 hours sleep every day. After 3 days of that I am wreck.
~~~
enraged_camel
You should start measuring the quality of your sleep using apps like Sleep
Cycle. I used to be exactly the same way. Then I realized that the reason I
was sleeping for 9-10 hours was because my sleep was "shallow" and kept
getting interrupted. It all changed drastically after I optimized my sleeping
environment: totally dark, 68 degrees year around, appropriate mattress type
for my sleeping position, etc.
Now I can get by comfortably with 6-7 hours of sleep.
Apps can also wake you up at the right time, as opposed to during deep sleep.
That makes it easier to wake up as well.
~~~
rosstex
Would you recommend Sleep Cycle the most? Do they require the phone physically
on your bed or nearby?
~~~
pbh101
After an update about a year ago, it only requires being nearby (nightstand
works for me) and uses sound to do the sensing.
~~~
rosstex
Cool, I'll give it a try tonight!
------
tboyd47
The story seems to be that most people are under the delusion of being busier
than they actually are, and if they just paid closer attention they would
realize this.
To me the far more interesting question is, why do we _feel_ so busy? I've
made the observation to my family on numerous occasions that the most
stressful and exhausting work days for me are the least productive, those days
when I'm just sitting at the computer staring at the screen for 8 hours. After
a day like that, at 5 o'clock I'm literally brain dead; nothing left. When I
have some productive goal I'm working towards, my work has the opposite
effect; I close my computer feeling energized & ready for whatever's next.
~~~
greenshackle2
The same is true for me. Not having work at work leaves me more worn out.
Or, possibly worse than having no work, having small amounts of annoying work,
but nothing else. The worse is when all I have to do all day is this one
annoying bug I havn't been able to figure out. It should take 2 hours to solve
but it ends up taking three days.
I'm most energized when I start a new project and I have lots of stuff to
build.
~~~
tboyd47
Sounds like you're a programmer too. I wonder if any other professions have
this problem.
Believe it or not, I have the opposite perspective. I'd rather spend a whole
week debugging something in a gnarly legacy system than architect/build one
from scratch. I like being able to say, "it wasn't working before; now it
works," and then get on with my life, rather than live with the consequences
of a hundred wrong turns. Different strokes, I guess!
~~~
comboy
If you have a clear bug and you nail it that's a great feeling. But what's
annoying for me is when you have a simple task of doing X, but you then
realize that you need to replace Y for this, but A replacement doesn't work
with B part and so on.. and when it's all done, few days later, all you've
done is you just finished that simple 1 hour task.
~~~
lobotryas
That's what's killing me currently. Get a task, fairly straight forward,
legacy system makes debugging a nightmare, end up spending a day or two on a
task the output of which is < 10 LOC.
------
JPKab
The author is clearly well into the upper-middle class financially, talking
about nannies and "solo beach days" on both coasts. Wow, how out of touch is
the typical New York Times writer these days.
Poor and working class people have truly busy lives compared to professionals.
We should all remember that.
~~~
apsec112
I think it depends a lot on the specifics. Of course, there are certainly lots
of Americans who are both poorer than the author and work harder. But in the
US, the very poorest people tend to be those who don't work at all, or only
work part-time. People who live their whole life in a small town with one or
two big employers, which move away when the economy crashes; people whose
skills go out-of-date, and can't afford a retraining program; people who may
be hard workers, but just really suck at interviewing, and always get
rejected; people who want to work more, but their employer only gives them a
few odd hours a day, and no one else wants to hire them when their schedule is
unreliable; people who get job offers in other cities, but can't afford to
move. This underclass doesn't work that many hours, and some would call them
"lazy", but I think it's usually more like despair. It's terribly depressing
to be broke, to not know if you can do anything other people see as valuable,
and to have nothing better to do than watch TV or play video games.
~~~
faceyspacey
That view that it it's "terribly depressing to be broke" and all the despair
the poor in America feel because they can create no value could only be
thought up by us smug hacker news software creators. I know first hand that
much of the poor are content to live off the government, never had any
aspirations and ultimately don't need much to survive and be content enough.
They don't know what they don't know and therefore they don't suffer from the
despair of not being the next Steve jobs. That was never on their list. They
are truly ignorant enough to be content with video games. I'm not talking
everyone but this probably is the majority. Things work and all you need is to
be able to hold a minimum wage job for a few years at a time and when you get
fired you can take a few years off while another friend or family member is on
deck, meanwhile you're contributing food stamps the whole time, 6 months of an
unemployment check, money from a few scams here and there, electricity bill
deductions and many other such benefits you can get if you are below the
poverty line. These are all meaningful contributions you can contribute well
past the 6 months of paid unemployment. You have to understand you also have
old people in the household collecting social security at $1k per month. There
are not only other people not working, but other non-workers coming up with
money and resources. It becomes just as normal for a working-age male to not
be working as grandma. After all we aren't talking 1 person or couple cramped
into an over priced San Francisco apartment. In short, the family doesn't need
as much money and everyone bands together, and can go for a very long time
bringing in very little money. And though totally in the hands of the "public"
health care system whose bills they will never pay if they get into an
accident, they are more than content with tv and stolen movies/shows via apps
like "ShowBox" until that happens, and even after. They have near zero ounce
of fight in them for anything more, certainly not to be the prolific CEO or
CTO of a tech company. That's far out of their field of vision. I am one that
believes to not aspire to something is not healthy. So for now ignoring the
other psychological issues surrounding the more privileged all feeling
disproportionate pressure to be somebody, I'll just say the opposite extreme
we are discussing now is worse and it's out of ignorance. An ignorance most
here can't understand or have forgotten. A true "ignorance is bliss" syndrome.
To us it may look like that as a result they are content to live in squalor.
The truth is the squalor of those living standards have risen. It all just
feels normal to them. What I call "poverty trap sweet spots" certainly do
exist in America.
~~~
krisroadruck
... I barely know how to respond to this. If you think the _most_ poor people
are content being poor it's hard for me to craft a rebuttal given how out of
touch you are with reality. I grew up poor myself. Like lived on the streets
for 2 years, spent time in the state grouphome system, had shoes held together
by safety-pins level of poor and I now make six figures. On my way from there
to here I spent a lot of time with other poor people and the vast majority of
them were extremely unhappy in their situations. A lot of them were working
hard to get out of that situation, others had given up because they realized
they didn't really have the aptitude or mental temperament or the resources to
bootstrap to anything better. I met only a very-very small handful of people I
would have described as "content" or "eager to game the system forever". Your
disdain for the poor is frankly disgusting and sounds like it comes from a
place of having never had to scrap and scrape for your next meal or make hard
choices about which bills to pay this month because you can't afford to pay
all of them. I can promise you it never feels normal to be just a few dollars,
or one mistake away from homelessness.
~~~
apsec112
It's good to hear about your experiences, but please don't make personal
attacks on HN. Usually, commenters here are quasi-anonymous; even when they're
wrong, it's bad to make assumptions about who they are as people, since in
most cases you just don't know.
~~~
SuperPaintMan
It's deserved, he painted a broad segment of working class folk as welfare
queens. Why bother with that computer shit when there is a next to zero chance
of it ever being useful? God help you if you want to progress into a field
where the knowledge is locked away in the ivory tower or behind expensive
texts/journal memberships.
Quite frankly it's disgusting and repulsive. Community rules be damned.
------
koliber
I've heard a great saying once: "Happiness is the difference between
expectation and reality." The more time I think about it, the more I agree.
I am starting to see that it applies to time as well. I used to feel like I
have no free time. However, after thinking about it, it feels like that
because I have big ambitions. I just want to do a lot.
I want to do my job well, work on my side project, spend quality time with my
wife and kids, keep the house in good shape, get myself into better shape,
help those around me, cook and eat healthy, grow my tomatoes, develop my mind,
entertain myself, read books, keep up with the news, socialize with friends,
call mom and dad, travel the world, and also have time to be by myself and
cultivate calmness through solitude.
That is a lot. I've realized that I was demanding too much from myself. I made
a conscious decision to lower my expectations of myself. I will still do all
of the things above, and likely many more. I just won't try to do them this
week, this month, or perhaps this year.
~~~
huherto
>I've heard a great saying once: "Happiness is the difference between
expectation and reality." The more time I think about it, the more I agree.
In a similar note. I believe that it is has been shown that happiness is
believing that the future will be better.
So it more important to have positive expectation of the future than your
present reality. Because you adapt to your present reality whatever it is but
you always need to know that things will be better.
------
rudolf0
Part of it is that constantly being busy can create a lot of physical and
mental fatigue and stress, making it difficult to do things you might
otherwise even if there is some free time. "I never have time" can technically
be a lie, "I can't do all this and stay sane" usually isn't.
I've found even the thought of worrying about work I need to do in the near
future can prevent me from participating in hobbies, despite having ample time
for those hobbies.
~~~
cortesoft
As a fairly new parent, I have had a similar realization. I have some free
time, but because of the lack of sleep and exhausting nature of the work I am
doing, I can't do the productive things I want to do in my free time. I am
simply too tired to give the mental or physical energy required.
------
dijit
The article seems to assume that context switching takes no time. If that were
true I have a _lot_ of free time.. it's just never contiguous.
~~~
ryandrake
Funny thing I noticed: when you start a family and have kids, you are forced
to get better and better at the _skill_ of context switching quickly. You
learn how to be productive with twelve 15-minute slots divided by
interruptions instead of a contiguous 3 hours. Being able to do this is a
skill like any other. I no longer buy the whole "in/out of the zone" thing as
if it is some fundamental law of nature.
~~~
thefalcon
I just constantly find myself out of the zone with a family/kids around.
~~~
zeveb
Hence the utility of having some people in a family specialise in staying in
the zone, and others specialise in handling child-based interrupts, not
entirely different from having one CPU devoted to main processing tasks and
other processing units handling ancillary tasks.
During the nuclear-family era, the idea was that dad would specialise in in-
zone work and mom would specialise in interrupt servicing, but both before and
after I think it was rather more fluid.
~~~
cmdrfred
Prior to that children were vastly more independent as well.
~~~
Jtsummers
Contemporary (starting in the 50s at least) suburban living styles makes
letting your kids be that independent very difficult. Not just the hyperbolic
fear that some have about child safety, but just what they can do locally
without needing a parent or older sibling to drive them.
Setting aside rural/country living where your neighbors were miles away, urban
(large or small city) living was more centered around local shops, parks, and
other environments. Now they live in a sea of houses, and have to travel way
outside it to get to other activities or free space like woods and parks for
play.
~~~
cmdrfred
Are you attempting to imply that cities did not exist 50 years ago? I'll think
you'll find that not only did they exist children were far more autonomous in
them. The fact is helicopter parents have won the day.
~~~
Jtsummers
The explosion in suburban-style living happened (in the US) largely post-WWII,
[EDIT: starting] in or around the 1950s. That's the shift I'm referring to.
Living in suburbs makes it easy for kids to wander the streets (parents feel
it's safe), but the design (or lack thereof) of many of them make it difficult
for kids to be "independent". It's hard to be a 12-year old who wanders to the
local candy store to spend your allowance when the nearest shop like that is
10 miles away because of suburban sprawl. Some areas did a better job than
others of trying to make their suburbs more like towns with local shops,
theaters, and such. But many did not.
Cities certainly have existed for ages, and they did allow for children to be
quite autonomous. It's the post city move to the _suburbs_ (setting aside the
helicopter parent cultural shift we've had) that created a large impact on the
availability of options for kids to act as independent people.
Additionally, for teens, suburbs make having their own jobs very challenging
(though it can reward the entrepreneurial few who start their own service
businesses like lawn mowing or raking). Again, short a car, suburbs make life
difficult for them, they require the assistance of their parents or others to
transport them around, which reduces their autonomy.
------
ChuckMcM
I've never gone full log analysis on this question but several times in my
career I've wondered "Am I really getting less done than I used to or am I
mis-remembering the past?"
Doing a surface analysis of that highlighted lots of places where I was doing
something I wanted to do and later counting it as "wasted" time. So for
example if I spent an hour watching a television show and later felt I had
wasted an hour watching TV, I could go back and re-score that to "I wanted to
watch television and I did, why are my priorities for that time different now
than they were then?"
And for me, there were two things that were key to me getting better with my
time. One was to be explicit about my priorities, and the other is the bin
packing problem.
If you spend three hours on things, separated by 15 minutes between hours, you
end up "losing" 45 minutes because 15 minutes is too short to spin up a new
task but long enough to be meaningful.
If I wanted to address the bin-packing problem then it meant being a lot more
thoughtful about planning my use of time. And doing three one hour things back
to back (with a plan to switch tasks at the earlier of "I'm done" or "it's
been an hour" that coalesces the three 15 minute chunks into one 45 minute
chunk which is enough time to watch an hour long TV show if you can skip all
the commercials.
------
wolfspider
I keep track of my own time quite well and don't really agree with the article
at all in fact I started coming up with my own outlandish solutions. One of
them is that I segment my sleep like people used to do before the Industrial
Revolution. When I get off work I sleep for 2-3 hours and then go to bed much
later for 3-5 hours. I've found that I used to waste more time preparing to
try and sleep for 8 hour blocks than doing anything else. Now I just go to
sleep when I'm actually tired along with the creativity boost you get between
1-3am when you segment your sleep. I'm not distracted during those hours
because no one is still awake to distract me and the time becomes more useful.
~~~
drdrey
What system do you use to keep track of your time?
------
cpwalker
From the article: "I think that time tracking deserves a try. A life is lived
in hours. What we do with our lives will be a function of how we spend those
hours, and we get only so many."
It's high-status to be busy. Time tracking, while useful for some, is more
likely to be a way for people to play the status game.
~~~
fossuser
I agree on the status point - talking about how 'busy' you are is basically
bragging about your status.
I suspect the working poor or people who actually have less control over their
time are more likely to say they're exhausted/tired/overwhelmed than 'busy'.
Busy to me is someone just advertising they're important.
------
eternal_intern
In my experience, It's never time which is the problem, it's mental attention.
Having 4 hours of free time at the end of a tiring day is meaningless if you
don't have the mental energy to actually use it.
------
twoquestions
There's quite a few money-budgeting apps out there (Mint, YNAB, etc...) to
help you figure out where your money is going, but I haven't seen much for
time-budgeting apps.
I know I wasn't great with money until I counted every cent for a while, I
wonder if the same effect could be replicated for people who don't spend their
time as effectively as they'd like.
~~~
Jtsummers
YNMT (You need more time)?
Offer a similar "budgeting" experience as YNAB, but constrained (you literally
have 24 hours a day, no more, no less). Create categories and subcategories.
Work - Programming, Meetings, blech; Meals - Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner,
Preparation, Shopping; Kids - Transport, playing with, working with; Home -
Bathroom, Kitchen, Floors, Mowing; Financial - Bills, Budgeting.
Open the app and log your time, specifying the appropriate category.
Reallocate time. You wanted to spend 24 hours at the lake this month (rented a
cabin, camping), but you needed to clean the gutters and forgot about it so
you go to the lake later on Saturday, not first thing in the morning.
Would be able to generate reports at different levels of granularity, like a
budgeting/accounting app can. Generate a daily, colored, chart so you can see
where in each day you spend time (or don't for unaccounted for time) and
identify trends and problems (I go to bed between 8pm and 11pm, maybe I should
make that more regular).
------
binalpatel
I've fallen into the busy trap pretty often lately.
Busy to me - paradoxically - is correlated with not getting shit done. It's
one thing to have a lot to do, and get 90% of the tasks done, and another to
have a lot to do, and get 10% of the tasks done, with the other 90% rolling
over onto the next day.
It's the roll-over that's really the stressor for me, when I feel most "busy",
and that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy for the next day, when you have
that much more to do.
------
neves
Nice! We have a lot of time. Hey morons, stop whining and work more.
This article represents a crazy mindset. We are not in the middle of the
Industrial Revolution. Nobody should have to work so much any more.
BTW. She has 4 weeks vacations.
------
uberstuber
“To me, ‘busy’ implies that the person is out of control of their life.” –
Derek Sivers
~~~
TeMPOraL
Well, I am out of control of my life. Because I need money to live, and so
does my family. So I'm slaving the days away.
~~~
coldtea
Sure. People that need to work to feed their family (as opposed to working by
choice, on things they like at their own terms, and having the financial
support to not work for years on end) are out of control of their life in that
regard (they have to be somewhere for 8+ hours each workday, they cant change
places unless they found a job at the new place, etc).
------
ap22213
The lack of time is really a perception caused by mental overload. Most people
I know have extra time. They're just incredibly overwhelmed with the
background noise of work. They have time, but extremely little of it is
mentally useful time.
------
bm98
I have a time tracking code called "HN". 33.19 hours logged so far this year.
I think it's time well spent...
------
spoinkaroo
What kind of systems do you guys use for time tracking, priority organization,
and achieving goals/finding meaning? I've flittered around with various
systems, but never settled on anything. (Planning out my week in advance, time
tracking from 15 minute intervals to morning intervals with what I have during
the day, to do lists organized by urgent+important // important // urgent //
neither, etc. It can be overwhelming, but I strongly suspect a system that
makes me cognizant of my behavior, decisions, and where I am adding/finding
the most value is superior to having no system at all.
~~~
parasubvert
I've found that a rough version of GTD has really helped me focus on "getting
things done" when I feel i need structure because I am pulled in many
different directions.
Don't worry about all the self help material, it really is a simple workflow:
[https://goo.gl/images/R7ciME](https://goo.gl/images/R7ciME)
From an overall "how to think and act effectively" philosophy, the original is
still the best IMO: "The Effective Executive", by Peter Drucker, written in
1967. It contains very simple ideas, but I've found them to be tremendous life
lessons on how to do the right things, rather than just doing things right.
------
tra3
Are there any suggestions for time tracking apps? Start-stop timers don't seem
to fit me very well: I fall off the wagon real quick. I also tried reporterapp
(www.reporter-app.com) but that didn't last long either. Any advice?
------
sjclemmy
Fascinating. But there is something wrong with this analysis and I can't quite
figure out what it is. Maybe there's a presumption that efficiency leads to
happiness - it's not explicit but I'm sure it's hinting at it.
I'm a big believer in not trying to fit too much in. As the author says, there
are only so many hours in a life time, so actually experiencing it rather than
trying to fill it is perhaps another way to look at it.
------
the_cat_kittles
nice article, but i think its the wrong metric. as others on here have noted,
its _energy_ not time that is the true finite resource. i have only about 3-4
good hours of focus per day. who cares about free time when thats the bigger
constraint?
------
rosstex
Is there a Chrome extension or program that does something like mentioned in
the article, asking you every half-hour "what did you do this last half-hour?"
I think that would be an effective way to get me logging my time.
------
beyondfantasy
Reading this made me want to watch an episode of Real Housewives.
------
SilasX
Reminds me of the WSJ's infographic of tax-hike impacts and the forlorn
expressions on their faces.
[http://i.huffpost.com/gen/944732/original.jpg](http://i.huffpost.com/gen/944732/original.jpg)
~~~
andruby
Wow, those income numebers are insane. Was that a sarcastic infographic or was
it serious one?
~~~
phd514
It was from this article on the upper middle class:
[http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-
the-1-the...](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-the-1-the-
upper-middle-class-is-larger-and-richer-than-ever/). The HuffPo article
conveniently omits "upper".
~~~
nerfhammer
I wouldn't call that upper "middle" class, I would just call that upper
class...
~~~
Swizec
Upper class is when you no longer have a salary, just investments. Upper
middle is when you have a high salary and some investments, but your main
source of income is still leveraging time and skill for money.
~~~
nerfhammer
So a CEO with a seven figure salary is still upper middle class? I think not.
~~~
Swizec
If said salary is their main/only source of income, why not? Afaik as long as
you _need_ a salary to maintain your lifestyle, you're middle class.
Grey areas abound of course. Whichever definitionwe write down, someone can
find an example that doesn't _feel_ right.
Like, what if your 7 figure CEO is 8 figures in debt and all their assets are
leveraged to the brim and if they lose their job it's all getting foreclosed
by the bank and they're homeless in a month?
What if a 5-figure small business director/owner lives a comfy life well
within their means and has 10 years of fuck you money?
Life's weird.
------
chillingeffect
This is going to be devastating to feminists:
"I have found that for women especially, it is the best antidote to the
pernicious narrative that professional success requires harsh sacrifices at
home."
and
"... a narrative of craziness, the sort professional women in particular tell
one another as we compete in the Misery Olympics,"
~~~
qntty
How so?
~~~
chillingeffect
Well, think about it:
These quotes minimize the legitimate problems women face. It authoritatively
relabels the real concerns women have in communicating their struggles as
"crazy" and a "misery olympics." It tells women their experiences are a
superficial social game rather than actual problems.
Feminism has been trying to instruct the world as the seriousness of women
balancing careers and family life, but this article tells them these stories,
based on real experiences of learning and coping are just "pernicious
narratives."
After reading this article, they're going to have to battle uphill to regain
ground lost by this (ironically) woman telling them the issues they face are
"lies."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cohabitation with Python and C++ - benhoyt
http://tech.oyster.com/cohabitation-with-python-and-cpp/
======
ephelon
It's quite easy to release the GIL while you are running non-python code.[1]
Just be sure that if you touch the Python API that you reaquire the GIL.[2]
[1] [http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html#releasing-the-gil-
fro...](http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html#releasing-the-gil-from-
extension-code)
[2] <http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html#PyGILState_Ensure>
------
swah
When you say HTTP API, does that mean you had C++ http server, C++ http
client, Python http server and Python http client?
~~~
benhoyt
Good question: In this case C++ was the server, and Python (via urllib2) was
the client.
~~~
rikthevik
Out of curiosity, why didn't you fork and use a pipe?
~~~
benhoyt
We're running on Windows, and fork isn't available there. Also, in this case
AFAIK fork doesn't really apply, as we wanted to start the C++ and Python
servers completely separately.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Minecraft Kings Landing (jpg) - fmsf
http://i.imgur.com/VGLM1MI.jpg
======
fmsf
I've never been a player of minecraft but this game keeps amazing me on so
many levels. Markus Persson really built a tool for fanatics...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX - HugoHobling
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-boeing-exclusive/exclusive-boeing-2016-internal-messages-suggest-employees-may-have-misled-faa-on-737-max-sources-idUSKBN1WX25G
======
tspike
The actual transcript is illuminating. This feels like corporate throwing the
test pilots under the bus.
[https://graphics.reuters.com/BOEING-737/0100B2J51TY/Boeing%2...](https://graphics.reuters.com/BOEING-737/0100B2J51TY/Boeing%20Document.pdf)
------
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
Why are journalists still calling this an 'anti-stall' system. It's not, and
it's so deceptive about what it actually does. The crashes had nothing to do
with stalls, the system does nothing to prevent stalls, and the safety
regulations that brought it about are only indirectly related to stalls.
The system affects _how the flight stick feels_ and that's really it. The more
you pull up (higher AoA), the more force is needed on the stick. That's
supposed to be linear within some margin of error. The big fat new engines
took it out of the linear envelope, making it a bit lighter than it 'should'
be at high AoA as the engines caught the wind. They either fixed this, or else
needed a new type rating (pilots can't hold more than one, so it's a _huge_
issue for existing operators of 737s).
The solution was MCAS which, as originally designed, wasn't powerful enough to
cause problems. But test pilots said that the stick was still a bit light, so
they reworked it and made it way too strong, while still being invisible to
pilots and lacking the reliability of a critical system. Then several hundred
people died.
~~~
anticensor
> pilots can't hold more than one, so it's a huge issue for existing operators
> of 737s
You can hold more than one but you need to maintain each separately.
------
jonplackett
What’s the implication here? That it’s these pilot’s fault? Surely their job
is just to report what they experience during a flight sim and it’s someone
else who would have decided to hide that.
~~~
mattlondon
The implication is that people at Boeing _knew_ there were problems with MCAS
before the crashes happened. I am not saying these particular guys are at
fault.
The transcript ([https://tmsnrt.rs/2OZl4Ic](https://tmsnrt.rs/2OZl4Ic)) shows
them specifically talking about MCAS doing weird stuff in simulators and they
they didn't know what was going on, or what the expected behaviour was.
Interesting that it happened in a _simulator_ where I presume that sensors
don't sporadically break or deliberately give duff readings in what is
probably a lot of highly controlled tests... perhaps a pure software error?
Did this problem just get lost somewhere in the noise of development? Was it
"unreproducible" (in the bug sense)? Was it willfully ignored by "the
management"? Who knows - but we now _do know_ that some people at Boeing
involved in development were aware of problems before the crashes.
Pretty sad really.
~~~
MFLoon
Simulators can "break" in the sense that support simulating various failure
modes, including presumably sensor malfunctions. It's very possible that they
stumbled on the exact conditions that led to the real world crashes, which
would be even more damning.
~~~
mattlondon
Yeah absolutely but if you are running a simulation/test would you
deliberately inject some random sensor failure if you are doing your tests for
something else?
It is not clear what they were testing - perhaps they were indeed testing the
MCAS system with sensor failures, but if so I probably wouldn't have expected
such a surprised resction from them. It seemed like it was totally unexpected
and unexplained, which is not a reaction I would expect if they were testing
this.
~~~
jjoonathan
AoA sensors are far from specific to MCAS. They may have been injecting AoA
faults to test some other system that depends on the AoA sensors.
~~~
mattlondon
Sure - but either way it doesn't look good.
------
situational87
>The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system, known as MCAS, was
causing him trouble. “It’s running rampant in the sim,” he said in a message
to a colleague, referring to the simulator. "Granted, I suck at flying, but
even this was egregious,” he went on to say, according to a transcript of the
exchange reviewed by The New York Times.
People need to go to prison over this.
~~~
privateSFacct
Boeing has designed planes that have an INCREDIBLE safety record, particularly
when flying in US regulated airspace.
Interesting that prison time is demanded here when a much more simple
explanation is that this was an oversight by the pilots in the sim who didn't
fully understand the issue was MCAS related.
Millions killed from opioid epidemics, thousands killed from violence and
various preventable diseases, huge number of road fatalities do not result in
prison time.
The safety record of aviation in the US should be applauded.
~~~
atonse
So you want to use their historical record as some kind of justification for
their dismal record with the 737 MAX, as if one is related to the other?
Cold comfort to the 300+ lives, and families destroyed.
Watch this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2tuKiiznsY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2tuKiiznsY)
This isn't just some "oops, these were badly trained pilots" – the whole
premise of MCAS is seriously screwed up and smacks of non-engineers running
the place.
~~~
Gpetrium
What op seems to imply is that airplane incidents rates actually have a
stronger track record as opposed to the opioid epidemic, road fatality, etc.
And that if society believes that this individual/group should go to prison
based on this mistake and in hindsight, without account for all the other
factors that were a part of the decision making process, then society should
start reconsidering the way it treats opioid, road fatality, etc.
The mindset of "quick to imprison" can also run the risk of creating a society
that is overly averse to risk taking, which can hinder technology and
scientific advances. For example, it may take 10 times as long to get a new,
more advanced traffic light implemented in your city because now everyone
wants to make sure no stone was left unturned, otherwise someone will get into
an accident and a staff/group will be imprisoned. Or a new software is
implemented but 3 months later it is found that failure under very specific
scenarios has caused over 50 deaths. There are millions of potential scenarios
that may fall under similar conditions as exemplified above.
Please note that this writing is not advocating for or against either views,
it is simply shedding light on risks that should be considered.
~~~
luckylion
Has anybody argued that nobody else should be punished, ever? Otherwise "but
there's drug addiction and car accidents! We shouldn't pass judgement on
Boeing until everything else is perfect" is a really strange argument.
~~~
privateSFacct
The really strange argument is saying it is totally OK for people to willfully
engage in activities that result in significant and ongoing fatality rates
within the bounds of US law without punishment (slaps on the wrist for
everything from willful pollution to opiods where the investigators were waved
off) and then demand jail time for folks who have no fatalities within US law
AND have an incredible safety record in their field, a record FAR FAR better
then lots of other areas (drug distribution, medical malpractice, enviro
health and safety etc).
If you wanted to reduce auto accident rates, opiod deaths etc you'd put these
folks in charge, not put the law enforcement lobby in charge (yes, they will
arrest lots of low level offenders but will not systematically address the
issues and do not chase the folks at the top).
------
stupidcar
Quelle surprise
~~~
dang
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
------
notadoc
The repetitional damage to Boeing on this has to be considerable.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
4 Reasons to Keep a Work Diary - gatsby
http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2011/04/four_reasons_to_keep_a_work_di.html?cm_sp=most_widget-_-default-_-Four%20Reasons%20to%20Keep%20a%20Work%20Diary
======
thesz
> _Although it can seem that I'm making only baby steps of progress — and,
> yes, sometimes going sideways or even backwards before moving forward — my
> journal is an independent arbiter (and a silent cheerleader)._
Yep. That's now the most part why I am blogging.
The line about going sideways is also quite resonant to me. I found that I
work in circles, making progress in places I consider most important now.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The unknown man who (may have) invented optogenetics - dharma1
https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/01/optogenetics/
======
dharma1
Sorry about the clickbaity title, but that was as close to the original as I
could fit in 80 characters.
Also, looks like the company licensing his patent just got bought by Allergan
for $60m. Hope he at least sees some of that, even if he doesn't receive
credit for inventing optogenetics as a general technique.
[https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/06/allergan-retrosense-
opto...](https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/06/allergan-retrosense-
optogenetics/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
CallStranger UPnP vulnerability exposes routers, gaming systems, TVs, printers - geek_slop
https://www.geekslop.com/news/technology-news/hacking-and-security/2020/new-callstranger-exploit-takes-advantage-of-upnp-vulnerability-in-millions-of-routers-gaming-systems-tvs-printers-and-other-internet-connected-attachable-devices
======
geek_slop
Researchers just announced the discovery of a UPnP vulnerability that impacts
any UPnP device exposed on the Internet. The attack, called CallStranger
(CVE-2020-12695), is being used for massive DDoS attacks , to exfiltrate data,
and to scan ports from Internet-facing UPnP devices.
The attack takes advantage of a Callback header value in the SUBSCRIBE
function so you can block all SUBSCRIBE and NOTIFY HTTP packets in ingress and
egress traffic for protection. DDoS protection can be configured to block
NOTIFY packets too.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Open Up vs. Break Up - PretzelFisch
https://avc.com/2019/06/open-up-vs-break-up/
======
dluan
This is so uncreative. Besides conveniently forgetting how Twitter starved out
its third party apps with breaking API changes, and Amazon's similar strong
arming of smaller vendors and services, he doesn't seem to understand why that
is bad.
Breaking up a company is to address a singular problem - that there are too
many interests being held under one roof. By breaking up, you are addressing a
need for broader governance and ownership that "opening up" doesn't allow for.
Let Whole Foods sell groceries, and let Twitch stream games.
~~~
rwmj
I'm assuming that he means the companies would be ordered by the force of
court rulings and the law to supply the third parties equally and without
prejudice.
A similar thing has happened in the UK with telecoms. The monopoly supplier of
the phone network is gradually being split into a company which owns the wires
in the ground but cannot offer services, and competing companies that rent the
wires to provide services, the rental being at an open, non-discriminatory
price. At least to some degree it works well (although the regulator needs a
lot more teeth).
------
topkai22
1) Wait, does DuckDuckGo use Bing’s search index?
2) A good solution would do both- open up the underlying data while breaking
up the various ad sales businesses. A great example is YouTube- YouTube should
not be able to single handedly demonetize videos- creators should be able to
opt in to alternative ad networks so long as they aren’t violating the TOS,
keeping Tuba instructional videos in the black
([https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/youtube-
demonetized-m...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/youtube-demonetized-
my-tuba-videos-also-i-make-tuba-videos/))
~~~
beebmam
In my humble opinion, I think the "monetization" of youtube videos has
produced a marketplace of clickbait and extreme content.
I'd like to roll back the clock to when youtube itself took all (or at least
most) of its advertising income from its users' videos.
~~~
furst
I mean, it's not hard to avoid clickbait or poor quality content. I'd say that
without the prospect of earning money a lot of quality content wouldn't exist.
Of course wherever there's income there will be people trying to exploit it,
but I think that YouTube wouldn't be what it is today if content creators
didn't get paid.
------
idlewords
There are some natural fracture planes in the big tech companies where it's
clear consumers would be better served by antitrust action:
1) Cleave Instagram and WhatsApp off of Facebook, to reduce the consolidation
in Facebook's ad business model, and re-introduce competition both in the
messaging and influencer-pouting-at-camera space.
2) Break off Android and Chrome from Google (and each other). Both are
products that would do fine on their own, but where right now consumer
interests are diametrically opposed to Google's advertising business model.
It's pretty clear that AVC wants to keep the entrenched surveillance business
model, but create APIs on top of it for more startups they can fund. But there
are ways to apply antitrust that won't make the surveillance problem worse,
while reintroducing some competition, and better aligning company incentives
with what their consumers want (e.g., allowing Chrome to go all-in on ad
blocking).
~~~
ethbro
The biggest change would be separating Facebook and Google's ad businesses
into separate companies.
They should be able to sell ads to support their free products if they choose.
But having the advertising business under the same roof as the product
business creates an inherent conflict of interest, not least towards
centralization and lock-in.
If Google instead sold ad space and data to AdWords (the external company),
responsibilities would be more clear.
------
dageshi
I find it kind of fascinating the different mindsets you see around HN
regarding Google/Facebook vs say Netflix/Hulu.
With conversations about Netflix and other online content producers people
want all the content in the world, at their fingertips for about $15-20 per
month and if they can't get it they'll threaten to pirate instead. For them
cost but also convenience really trumps all, the idea of having too many
services, even if cheaply priced is too much, they just want one.
Compare that to this kind of thread where we have these easy to use single
platforms in the form of Google Search, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Amazon but
here everyone is doing their hardest to try and break them up, make them less
convenient and perhaps more expensive (how do you get cheaper than free with
more competition?).
Perhaps though, both sentiments are at extremes when it comes to public
opinion.
~~~
CodeMage
You're conflating way too many things and oversimplifying the whole situation
into a fictitious idea of conflicting mindsets.
First of all, you're treating two very different types of services as equal
and identical. Netflix and Hulu are subscription content providers. Google and
Facebook can be defined and described in many ways, but subscription content
providers is not among them [1]. It's quite natural and understandable that
people would have different expectations and complaints.
Second, the situation with content providers isn't binary. The solution to the
problem of not being to afford a whole bunch of subscription content providers
is not limited to having one become a monopoly.
Third, it's not just cost and convenience when it comes to access to content.
Take Spotify Premium, for example. It's a subscription service that gives you
access to all the music in its catalog as long as you pay your subscription.
Except that there is absolutely no legal way for you to ensure access to any
subset of the content. Have a favorite song, album or artist? Tomorrow it
might disappear from Spotify's catalog and you have no way of hanging on to
it.
Fourth, the concerns that lead people to suggest that Google, Facebook or
Amazon should be broken up are varied and nuanced, and they go way beyond cost
and convenience.
So no, I don't think you can sum up people's opinions into two seemingly
contradictory mindsets.
[1] Yes, I'm aware of YouTube and Spotify having a similar model. That
actually happens to be a pretty good argument to break up Google.
~~~
ethbro
I think part of the difference in HN opinion color is somewhat related to
transparency.
Subscription content business models are straightforward and marketed as such:
$ for access.
Ad supported business models are... murkier. And I'd say Google and Facebook
haven't done a sufficient job in _proactively informing_ the public about what
they collect, how they generate revenue from it, and what's currently stored
about a user.
Also, ad supported models have the unfortunate side effect of having revenue
directly tied to the greatest possible exploitation of existing data (and
collecting greater amounts going forward). Which... aren't great ethical
incentives.
~~~
CodeMage
_> I think part of the difference in HN opinion color is somewhat related to
transparency._
It's not that I disagree with you on the topic of transparency, it's that I
think we can't really compare opinions on two very different topics as if they
were the same topic. People complaining about too many subscription content
providers are not really arguing for or against a monopoly. It's not the same
discussion.
_> And I'd say Google and Facebook haven't done a sufficient job in
proactively informing the public about what they collect, how they generate
revenue from it, and what's currently stored about a user._
Granted, but I'm pretty sure that even if they did so, it wouldn't make much
difference. I always refer people to Moxie Marlinspike's DEF CON keynote
called "Changing threats to privacy" [1]. I would definitely recommend
watching it in full, but the key takeaway from it -- for the purposes of this
discussion -- is that it all boils down to choice. He talks about the way
technology changes the fabric of the society, how it changes the way people
interact, communicate and coordinate, and declining to participate in this new
way of doing things exposes you to the "no network effect".
This is why it's not enough for Google and Facebook to merely inform people
about what they collect and how they use it. As long as they're practically
monopolies, they can disclose and inform and then go on just the same, because
there's no other viable alternative and they'll work hard to ensure it stays
that way.
The traditional way of dealing with an incumbent that is too powerful to
reasonably compete with is to break it up, in hopes of diminishing not its
power to compete, but rather its power to stifle competition.
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk)
------
tlb
Breaking up companies can be a mechanism to enforce openness. For instance,
the proposal to separate Microsoft's application business from their OS
business (in the late 90s) was in reaction to them giving their own apps
special treatment in their OS, so their apps ran better than third party apps.
By separating the two business units into separate companies, they would lose
the incentive to do stuff like that.
Separating Android and Chrome from Google Search would limit the obvious
temptation for abusing their browser business to help their advertising
business. Google has (so far) shown pretty good restraint in their tactics
compared to what would be technically possible, but the incentives are massive
and might be hard to resist when times get tough.
Enforcing openness in the face of massive incentives to the contrary requires
prompt and wise government oversight, which is hard to achieve. The range of
subtle tricks that platform companies can pull to slightly break their
competitors software is beyond the ability of regulators to control.
~~~
wrs
Instead of a breakup, something close to what OP is asking for was imposed on
Microsoft — a "technical committee" was empowered to ensure that all Windows
protocols were fully documented. [1]
[1] [https://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2011/04/depar...](https://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2011/04/department-of-justices-long-oversight-of-microsoft-to-end/)
------
ChrisCinelli
What does "pushing them to move from platforms to protocols" mean?
Opening up Facebook is what led to the Facebook APIs and data going in the
hands of thousands of 3rd parties (ex: Cambridge Analytica).
Assuming it is possible to "open up" those monopolies, it would require a
completely new paradigm.
------
aychedee
Isn't this ignoring the more obvious solution? Why not nationalise them? The
value of these networks is in the users. Not the companies themselves.
~~~
syshum
Nationalizing them is neither obvious nor a solution.
Nationalizing them would make any problems, real or perceived, 100x worse.
~~~
adamc
It would be more persuasive if you actually made the argument, rather than
just asserting the conclusion.
~~~
syshum
Responding in detail as to why nationalization is a bad idea is on the same
level has responding to comment about why the earth is not flat.
The evidence is clear, widely known, and most sane people do not suggest we
should nationalize things, nor that the earth is flat
~~~
smt88
You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than
the US)...
[http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-
highly-...](http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-
developed-country-without-universal-healthcare/)
~~~
syshum
>>You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than
the US)...
You are correct I do. Time will prove me right as well given that most of
those nations have very real and every systemic issues with their healthcare
system that are pushed under the rug and never talked about because it goes
against the narrative that Government run healthcare is best thing ever
~~~
smt88
What are these issues? Their outcomes are better than ours, and they pay less
per person.
The UK has had nationalized health care for 70 years. Sweden, Iceland, Norway,
Denmark, and Finland are not far behind (50+ years for each of those).
If these problems you're describing were caused by nationalization, wouldn't
we have seen them already? 50-70 years is a remarkably long time for a
national social program to run without running into any fatal issues.
------
jbarberu
"In mobile, a good first step is to open up the app stores and allow the
browsers to have the same access to the operating system as native mobile
apps."
From a security perspective this sounds like an absolute nightmare.
------
adamc
Breaking up may be an early 20th-century solution, but it has the virtue of
being a solution that works.
------
ocdtrekkie
A fun story is that this is more or less the conversation we were in with AOL
Instant Messenger 19 years ago:
[https://www.computerworld.com/article/2596085/aol-foes-
accus...](https://www.computerworld.com/article/2596085/aol-foes-accuse-it-of-
trying-to-distract-ftc-on-messaging.html)
------
yonran
I think this is the right approach: to require third-party companies to have
access to a dominant company’s network after the network has reached a certain
threshold of size or age. I like to use the craigslist.org example: a company
that is still dominant basically because it is free and was launched in 1995.
We’re stuck using the ugly craigslist UI because their network is the oldest
and biggest. Several companies have attempted to innovate on the
craigslist.org experience but were forced to stop due to lawsuits (e.g.
padmapper, 3taps, RadPad). If we wish to allow competition and innovation in
the classified advertising space, then I don’t think there is a good dimension
to split up the craigslist company (by metro area? by apartments vs for
sale?). Instead, we should promote competition by allowing competitors to
access their APIs for free or for a reasonable price. The network that a web
company creates should not belong to one company forever.
------
IlegCowcat
I wonder how much annually these monopolies collectively spend on lobbying gov
against the populist temptation to break them up? Huge sums i assume. Huge.
I would first favour opening them up, see how it goes, and then consider
alternative approaches if the desired outcome is not seen. I think it's
critical to have a very clear idea of what the desired outcome would be before
taking action. That would require a 20/ 20 view of what the problems are, but
the monopolies are working hard to hide the problems from view. Google tries
to present itself as not being a search dominant corporation (the Alphabet
deception). Facebook is now a very big book and definitely needs 'editing'.
------
AlphaSite
This is the model the UK followed when dealing with BTs natural monopoly on
phone lines. Openreach owns and is obligated to maintain service to every home
in the country and all providers compete to build differentiated services atop
the physical hardware.
~~~
dpwm
> Openreach owns and is obligated to maintain service to every home in the
> country
Except Hull [0]
[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCOM_Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCOM_Group)
------
UglycupRawky
A DOJ requirement to divest assets is one extreme, while a requirement to
spinoff assets and have them operate autonomously could unlock even greater
value for a parent company. What’s App, Instagram, You Tube, etc., trading as
separate stocks could spread market share and in theory create more
competition, while not diluting, and possibly increasing, overall corp value.
A not likely scenario, but perhaps a possible one.
------
her_tummy_hurts
“In mobile, a good first step is to open up the app stores and allow the
browsers to have the same access to the operating system as native mobile
apps.”
Yeah no, I don’t want just any website to have native control over my phone.
That’s just asking for trouble
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Surge – Static Web Publishing for Front-End Developers - stevelacy
https://surge.sh/
======
sotojuan
I'm not a paying customer of or affiliated with Surge—just a happy user.
Surge is what I've always wanted to when I do frontend development for fun and
learning. This is especially true if you're new. When you're new, you don't
want to set up a server to push to Heroku or Digital Ocean, you may not want
to use GitHub pages, or other alternatives (not aware of all, just the ones I
mentioned). You may still be new to git and git-based deployments.
Surge is simple: `surge -p build` will upload the `build` directory and give
you a nice HTTPS URL to share with your friends. `surge` does the same with
the current directory. You can pick a URL under their domain or use one you
own. It all takes a few seconds. Perfect for portfolios, demos, etc.
If you use npm you can `npm install --save-dev surge` and add a script that
does your production build step and then calls surge to deploy it.
Very underrated service!
~~~
windsurfer
I'm still confused what this service does. `surge -p build` and `npm install
--save-dev surge` is simpler for a newbie than getting sftp credentials to a
shared host? My designer friends can drag and drop, but certainly stay away
from the console.
~~~
rakoo
You'll need a shared host first. surge automatically gives you that.
~~~
windsurfer
Ah! That's really cool then! I thought it was just the command line tool.
------
juandazapata
Nice service, but too expensive to be honest. My static websites (built with
middleman) are hosted in Amazon S3 as a static website bucket and have a
Cloudfront distribution in front of it. I use `middleman s3_sync` to deploy
the build in one command and it takes care of everything, even Cloudfront
invalidation. All for just a few pennies per month.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
~~~
sintaxi
Hi, Brock from surge.sh here.
We are still figuring out our pricing. It kind of kills me to hear someone
call surge too expensive. We worked hard to give surge a very legit free
offering which is serving over 35k projects. Surge gives (currently) unlimited
projects with custom domains. We charge $13/mo for that extra 1% which is
custom SSL, basic auth, custom redirects.
Very open to suggestions if you have any. Would you prefer we have a small
membership fee and open up all the features? What would you suggest is fair?
~~~
nathancahill
It would be cool to see a $2/mo option for people that want to support the
project (same features as the free tier).
------
pyrophane
One of the testimonials:
"From now on, I think I'm going to strive to build all my apps as fully static
sites."
What? I can understand the idea of not overcomplicating an app when you don't
need to, but how does this goal make sense for anyone who wants to build
anything non-trivial?
~~~
igorgue
Done this many times, in fact currently I deploy to S3 (look for "static
website") and the static site interacts with an API.
This is the whole point of JavaScript frameworks to me. And definitely not
trivial stuff.
~~~
pyrophane
I understand the architecture you are describing, and I don't think that it is
trivial. My confusion is over what really constitutes a "fully static" app.
~~~
jqueryin
IMO, static doesn't have to have a correlation to being simpler.
HTML, CSS, JS, and media are all static assets but you're welcome to request
whatever datatypes you want behind the scenes via AJAX and/or CORs.
The benefits are entirely in the rendering speeds of an optimized web server
and cache layer. Also, this approach plays extremely nicely with CDNs.
Difficulties can arise if you have to begin dealing with versioning of your
assets to avoid cache invalidation, but that's what a proper build process can
add to the static site.
~~~
aeosynth
Is the performance/simplicity that much better than setting up Cloudflare
yourself?
------
zackbloom
If you're interested in setting up something similar on AWS, you could take a
look at Stout [1].
[1] [http://stout.is](http://stout.is)
~~~
atjoslin
+1 -- I use Stout all the time. I don't have to rely on anyone's uptime except
AWS's. Stout's just a "shortcut" for using AWS infrastructure that I have full
control of.
With Surge, I'd have to trust some startup's build tool not to fail at a vital
time.
------
cyberpanther
I don't work directly with Surge but the other developers where I'm at have
found Surge to have too much downtime and we're moving off of it now. Maybe in
the future they will have a more reliable service, but right now you'll
definitely experience the growing pains of a new tool.
~~~
chrisan
Was the downtime with the static website itself or the deployment tools?
~~~
cyberpanther
static website
------
pesfandiar
Very nice. Services like this can help keep the costs and maintenance of
smaller projects to a minimum. I myself created a proof-of-concept online
programming judge without any server (see
[http://www.pesfandiar.com/blog/2016/05/12/javascript-
online-...](http://www.pesfandiar.com/blog/2016/05/12/javascript-online-
hosting-static-site-cheaply)). I only used Google Cloud Platform and
Cloudflare at virtually no cost.
I wish they had some minimal features that you'd need a server for. I'd pay
$5-10/mo to get some basic authentication, custom headers, and maybe even some
sort of user-specific key-value store.
------
munro
I've been using neocities.org for the same purpose, compile a web app, signup
for an account, and drop the assets.
[https://3d3d3d.neocities.org/](https://3d3d3d.neocities.org/)
------
nathancahill
Love Surge so much. The CLI interface is stellar. We use it for testing
feature branches of frontend code. Writing a tool to automatically spin up an
environment for every pull request (alongside the CI). Helps the whole team
test new features without having to pull down the branch and review locally.
------
hanniabu
I mean, if you're doing a static site you can also use github pages with a
simple push command. Is there some difference between surge and doing this
that I'm not seeing?
~~~
sintaxi
If you are properly preparing your assets for web distribution you really
don't want those files in a git repo. it messes up your commit history and
doesn't provide much value. I think gh-pages is fundamentally broken for this
reason. IMHO its best to keep your source files in a git repo and publish your
compiled assets to surge.
~~~
wilg
[https://github.com/edgecase/middleman-gh-
pages](https://github.com/edgecase/middleman-gh-pages) solves this problem by
letting you do all your work on the master branch, then your build script
compiles all your assets and commits them to the gh-pages branch, so it
doesn't pollute your Git history.
------
piotrkubisa
Interesting idea for making kind of a PaaS for static websites.
I have been using a Firebase Hosting [1] (provides free https, CDN, CLI
publish with `firebase serve`) for a while. Obviously, Firebase quotas and
pricing is way another but I am curious how do you compare Surge to Firebase
Hosting?
[1]
[https://firebase.google.com/docs/hosting/](https://firebase.google.com/docs/hosting/)
------
gk1
See also [https://www.netlify.com/](https://www.netlify.com/) ... Not sure on
exact differences between the two, maybe someone who's used one or the other
can chime in?
~~~
bobfunk
I'm a co-founder of netlify and happy to chime in.
Surge is a simple tool with a really awesome CLI for deploying static sites
quickly.
At netlify we're building a larger platform for working with a modern static
approach.
We have an integrated continuous deployment platform. That way you just link a
git repository to netlify, and we'll do the build whenever you push to git and
even give you preview deploys of pull requests.
We run our own content delivery network, which means a lot for performance,
and can post-process assets to automatically serve them out of a larger asset
CDN with far future expires headers.
Netlify has built in Let's Encrypt support with a 1 click setup. We'll do
automatic certificate rotation and enable HTTP2 when HTTPS is turned on.
Our CDN can handle complex proxying and redirect rules. If part of your site
need to go to a dynamic backend or if you need API proxying, a one-line rule
can set this up. We can even handle gradual migrations from a dynamic to a
static approach by proxying all non-static requests straight from the CDN to a
dynamic origin.
Apart from that we have lots of extra features like built-in pre-rendering for
single page apps, Geo IP based redirect and rewrite rules, JavaScript snippet
injection for easy analytics setup, form processing, etc, etc...
------
excitom
It feels like 1994 again! Just rcp an HTML file from my workstation to the web
server!
------
ozten
Another interesting competitor is PubStorm
[https://www.pubstorm.com/](https://www.pubstorm.com/)
Their price is TBD, but they have a cool "quick and easy revert" feature.
~~~
pbreit
I came to mention PubStorm which I started using recently and have been
pleased so far. I got the impression that some reasonable service would remain
free?
Hoe does Surge compare?
~~~
ozten
Sorry, yes they both have a free offering.
------
damaru
As a web developer I feel sometime solution like that remove the understanding
of how the internet works. This script can be replaced by a tiny shell script,
that runs a rsync of the dev folder to your server, and I think it is
important to know basic scripting like that even for a front end dev. I have
to say that I haven't tried the script but I haven't seen anything impressive
from the presentation video.
------
jordanlev
Is there a difference between what Surge offers versus ngrok?
(Genuinely curious, not trying to imply that "this has been done before" or
shouldn't exist!)
~~~
mikey_p
I was under the impression that ngrok only provided tunnels, while surge only
provides hosting/CDN.
~~~
jordanlev
Ah, yes that makes sense -- thanks!
------
Rabidgremlin
Along similar lines I have been playing with Bitbucket Pipelines and Hugo to
build static websites on commit and deploy them to S3 buckets. Really like the
way they use docker containers as build agents, it's very tidy:
[https://github.com/rabidgremlin/hugo-s3](https://github.com/rabidgremlin/hugo-s3)
~~~
kannonboy
Nice one! I'm a developer from Atlassian, it's cool to see the different CI/CD
applications that Pipelines is being used for.
Regarding static site deployment specifically, Aerobatic
([https://www.aerobatic.com/](https://www.aerobatic.com/)) have a similar
static site publishing offering via a Bitbucket add-on, though it uses Lambda
rather than Pipelines. They've got a couple of other nifty features like auto-
renewing SSL certificates, too.
~~~
nstj
Nice tip!
------
krat0sprakhar
Don't have enough good things to say about Surge. Wonderful service, damn easy
to work with, great number of features (even in the free plan).
------
kentor
Very nice service and interface. Only issue I've had was when my site went
down a couple of times due to issues at DigitalOcean.
~~~
sintaxi
Brock from surge here. I would just like to clarify causes of our downtime
because we like DigitalOcean very much and dont want people to have the wrong
idea.
In the 1 year we have been available we have had 3 incidences each for
different reasons.
The first was DigitalOcean taking us offline for not complying with a DMCA
takedown request. This was before Digital Ocean knew who we were and they
expected foul play. From this incident DO reviewed their policies on removing
network access to customers and show genuine remorse for the downtime. Like I
say we have been very happy with DO and would definitely recommend them.
The second downtime was due to user error on a bad deploy and the system
unraveled in a sense. This was a result of several poor things that made the
system more brittle than it should be. Somewhat significant architecture
changes have happened as a result and more are underway.
Last, and most recently was two DDoS attacks on our floating IPs within days
apart. Learning lots still about how to best protect our customers from this.
System changes and mitigation plans are being put in place to protect our
customers from these sorts of attacks in the future.
------
gumby
grumble: they mention git hooks (and if you click on the description they are
RCS agnostic) but they use the octocat logo.
Just yesterday I mentioned that I was using git and my gf assumed I meant
github. She (not a developer) thought that git was a product sold by github.
~~~
sintaxi
The octocat is in reference to the example app but I can see the confusion.
------
johnwheeler
pretty!
------
romanovcode
>Free SSL for surge.sh subdomains
Wow! Thanks! It's not like I can just get it for free on any domain I like.
Not even speaking about servers like Caddy that can do that automatically on
launch.
~~~
scrollaway
Why the snark? Is this how you communicate in everyday life?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Fall of the House of Tsarnaev - weisser
http://www.bostonglobe.com/Page/Boston/2011-2020/WebGraphics/Metro/BostonGlobe.com/2013/12/15tsarnaev/tsarnaev.html
======
guard-of-terra
They seem to be describing an average Chechen family.
Or so many Russians believe, therefore a growing movement to split Chechnya
and Dagestan from Russian Federation and seal it with concrete border like US-
Mexico.
~~~
rdl
What would be the downside of doing this? I'm probably biased (in that of the
~100 Chechens I've interacted with in my life, every single one was a jihadi
-- kind of a selection bias, though.)
Assuming Russia could control the pipeline corridors, the only real risk seems
to be a "domino theory" that letting a territory go will risk encouraging
other, better territories to leave. But in the case of kicking
Chechnya/Dagestan out, that's not the risk.
~~~
guard-of-terra
Putin seems to be loving Chechens and hating Russians.
(First of all, Russians might free him of his duties but chechens and otherr
minorities can not)
Not that it answers your question.
------
leokun
Don't get why killing and maiming people gets you all this attention. It is
just going to encourage more people on the brink to go and hurt others.
Writers who defend with it is what people want to read are trying to avoid
responsibility. They have rationalized their actions. Personally, I never want
to hear about these two kids again.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Who's Going To Get Money For Facebook Apps? - vascoos01
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/9/who-s-going-to-get-money-for-facebook-apps-
======
sanj
Me!
[http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/7/the-best-of-the-best-
the-...](http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/7/the-best-of-the-best-the-most-
interesting-fbfund-winners)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
HTTPS with a Custom Domain on GitHub Pages - jgrahamc
https://lukeb.co.uk/2018/01/02/HTTPS-With-A-Custom-Domain-On-GitHub-Pages/
======
PebblesHD
I’ve been using CloudFlare to provide SSL on my documentation sites hosted on
GH Pages for around 12 months with excellent reliability. The only caveat I’ve
found so far is that a number of browsers and especially corporate proxies do
not support the certificates and SSL protocols used by CloudFlare, resulting
in failed connections. This is a problem across all CloudFlare sites though,
so something to look out for if you need access from behind such a setup.
~~~
jgrahamc
_The only caveat I’ve found so far is that a number of browsers and especially
corporate proxies do not support the certificates and SSL protocols used by
CloudFlare_
Which browsers and which proxies?
~~~
PebblesHD
Wow, hello! So far it seems like the McAfee corporate products are the most
common failures. I deal with about 20 calls a day within my company and from
what I've heard this isn't a unique experience. The versions our security team
use are probably about 3 years out of date but the new cloud product they're
migrating to has shown similar symptoms where the connection fails and the
client shows a standard 'Server Failed to Connect's. The team managing the
existing proxy had provided some connection logs, I'll try and dig them out.
~~~
PebblesHD
Found them. The comments from the security team suggest the (admittedly out of
date) proxy appliance can’t handle the combination of modern TLS ciphers, H/2
and multiple hosts on a SAN cert, and in this scenario, results in a
connection failure that from the end user perspective looks like a site issue.
In the case of the new cloud service, the problem is specifically related to
the new TLS versions and long lived connections, but which I haven’t been able
to recreate from the corporate Akamai setup with the same site behind it.
Small sample size though...
~~~
jgrahamc
Thanks. Mind emailing me details? jgc @ cloudflare . com.
------
chmaynard
I use GitHub Pages with a custom domain to publish a static blog. I post about
once a month and my audience is small. Would someone please explain why I
should worry about HTTP vs. HTTPS?
~~~
PebblesHD
Chrome will shortly be flagging all sites without HTTPS as insecure, so at the
very least the benefit is cosmetic. From an overall health of the internet
perspective, modern SSL ensures no tampering or other misbehaviour on the
line. Google covered some other benefits of SSL in a post from September -
[https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/security/encr...](https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/security/encrypt-
in-transit/why-https)
~~~
chmaynard
Makes sense to me. Apparently GitHub doesn't agree, because they don't still
support HTTPS for custom domains.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Does anyone else also have a thick black line at the top of the screen? - eindiran
======
mindcrime
Yes, it's an HN tradition to acknowledge the passing of notable figures in the
community. On this particular occasion, the individual is Larry Tesler.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361282](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22361282)
~~~
ChrisGranger
And/or Bert Sutherland.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22370667](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22370667)
~~~
dhruvkar
And Peter Montgomery.
~~~
csixty4
This has been a tough week losing more than one of our industry pioneers.
------
PaulHoule
HN does that when somebody important to tech has died.
------
mr_overalls
Yes. Looks like the culprit is:
<td bgcolor="#000000"><img src="s.gif" width="0" height="5"></td>
------
thepete2
I was about to ask the same. I assumed it is because of Larry Tesler's death.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Monitor Your Competitor's A/B Tests - ysekand
http://cromonitor.com/#hn
======
smt88
What's the benefit of knowing what your competitor is A/B testing?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Onion names reserved by the IETF - finnn
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/landmark-hidden-services-onion-names-reserved-ietf
======
duskwuff
It's the sensible, pragmatic thing for them to do. Allowing .onion to be
allocated as a "real" TLD would just be disruptive and confusing at this
point.
The implications with regard to SSL certificates are interesting, though, and
I'm curious how long it'll take for SSL providers to start supporting that. :)
~~~
jlgaddis
What are the benefits to using SSL/TLS certificates on a hidden service?
Perhaps a better question is: _are_ there any benefits other than just
providing an additional layer of encryption that a potential attacker would
have to defeat -- there's already end-to-end encryption when using hidden
services (even if there isn't any encryption at the application layer)?
ETA: I just remembered that hidden services use 1024-bit RSA keys and there's
been some arguments lately that that may not be enough bits. For some sites,
using (at least) a 2048-bit key may be necessary.
~~~
jandrese
Well, it would encrypt the traffic from your TOR endpoint to the application.
Usually this is on the same box so it's not a big deal, but not always.
~~~
dogma1138
All traffic to TOR hidden services is encrypted end to end, SSL can add
additional level of authentication tho.
If it's not a hidden service then you can't really use an .onion address
anyhow.
~~~
jlgaddis
You're correct, but I think his point was that the Tor endpoint (i.e. the host
connected to the Tor network) and, e.g., the host actually serving up the
content aren't necessarily one and the same (although they usually are).
In those instances, an SSL certificate would provide encryption all the way
from the "Tor client", through the Tor network, the rendevous point, Tor
endpoint, and to the actual application server. Without additional encryption
in use at the application layer, the link from the Tor (hidden service)
endpoint and the actual server would not be encrypted and, thus, vulnerable.
To (perhaps) explain better, this would be similar to how Cloudflare offers
SSL for all sites and while the path from the end user to Cloudflare is (can
be) encrypted, the link from Cloudflare back to the origin server isn't
necessarily encrypted. Alternatively, think of the link from an SSL
terminating device to the backend web servers. Again, in most cases, this is a
non-issue but there certainly are some instances in which it would apply (and
this is probably more likely the bigger a site (hidden service) is).
------
telescope7
Measuring the Leakage of Onion at the Root “A measurement of Tor’s .onion
pseudo-top-level domain in the global domain name system”
[[https://www.petsymposium.org/2014/papers/Thomas.pdf](https://www.petsymposium.org/2014/papers/Thomas.pdf)]
------
banthar
Isn't SSL on .onion domains redundant? It makes sense for onion -> open web,
but shouldn't onion -> onion connections be already both authenticated and
encrypted?
~~~
johnmaguire2013
I believe the exit node may still be able to view traffic in plaintext. This
is part of the reason that running an exit node is so "dangerous" in the US.
edit: Though with a quick Google, I'm led to believe that an exit node is only
important when you are leaving the onion network (i.e. when entering into the
Internet), and thus it sounds like SSL on a hidden service would indeed be
superfluous to me.
However, SSL also proves authenticity, not just encryption. It would let you
know that the hidden service you are accessing is indeed who you think it is.
~~~
icebraining
_However, SSL also proves authenticity, not just encryption. It would let you
know that the hidden service you are accessing is indeed who you think it is._
So do .onion address; they are an hash of the key pair you get when you
generate a new one, and the client verifies that the server it's connecting to
does in fact control the associated private key.
By abdicating readable domains, the Tor hidden services system eliminates the
need for external authentication mechanisms like CAs; the address is all you
need.
[https://www.torproject.org/docs/hidden-
services.html.en](https://www.torproject.org/docs/hidden-services.html.en)
~~~
johnmaguire2013
Assuming a .onion's key were to be bruteforced or stolen however, you would
also need to steal the SSL private key in order to continue to appear
authentic.
I'm not saying Tor doesn't cover authenticity, but that SSL provides an
additional authenticity check on top of that.
edit: On the topic of bruteforcing, the linked Stack Overflow post leads me to
believe it's not terribly infeasible.
Additionally, stealing the .onion's key would likely expose the SSL private
key as well (as you'd likely have access to the server at that point), unless
the .onion's key is exposed due to misconfiguration or another form of human
error.
I also think, lastly, that the point about the browser understanding its
dealing with a secure connection and enforcing general browser SSL rules has
merit.
edit 2: Forgot the link -
[https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/29772/how-do-
yo...](https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/29772/how-do-you-get-a-
specific-onion-address-for-your-hidden-service)
~~~
ikeboy
_14:2.6 million years_
~~~
johnmaguire2013
With a single core.
~~~
ikeboy
So a million cores still takes years. What would you consider infeasible, may
I ask?
Also, you're wrong about bruteforcing the domain implying you can decrypt if
not for ssl. If you bruteforce (for millions or billions), you won't get the
same key. You'll get _a_ key that shares the first 80 bits of its hash with
the other key used. So you can use it to mitm or impersonate the site, but you
can't use it passively to decrypt connections to the onion.
------
pcl
I've always thought that these addresses should have a different scheme, not a
different TLD. For example, _onion: //aoeusnth_ instead of
_[http://aoeusnth.onion](http://aoeusnth.onion) _
Is there any reason in particular why the TLD approach was settled upon
instead of a scheme-based approach?
~~~
rys
The reason it has to be done at the DNS level, rather than at the URI scheme
level, is because any protocol can be routed over TOR.
~~~
pcl
Well, there's nothing keeping a well-defined tor scheme from including the
protocol information in it, is there? For example, I could imagine specifying
a tor URI in my git config: _onion:ssh:pcl@aoeusnth_ or _onion:http:aoeusnth_
~~~
vodik
The point is its still http.
Think of TOR as acting like a VPN or point-to-point tunnel. You can
conceptually think of it as another network interface plugged into your
network. The policy you choose what to route over it is your own. It doesn't
affect how any other protocols function.
I can still access regular sites over TOR. I can also access regular websites
over a VPN. openvpn+[http://](http://) isn't exactly useful either for the
same reason.
And there are other special tld. Your multicast domain group (e.g. .local) is
also special. Your dns resolver sees the TLD and resolves it specially. But
once again, doing multicast DNS doesn't impact http, git, ssh, etc. So it be
silly to have to write mdns+[http://..](http://..). as well.
And if you where to join them, then you have to describe what kind of
behaviour should happen if, for example, on
openvpn+[http://foobar.tld](http://foobar.tld) you hit a hyperlink to
[http://baz.tld](http://baz.tld). Do I rewrite this to prepend openvpn+? Fail?
etc.
------
splitdisk
Now we just need to find a Tor user with enough money to buy EV
certificates...
~~~
detaro
like facebook?
[https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/](https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/)
------
ape4
What's Facebook (privacy enemy) doing in there.
~~~
elros
They're not the enemy of privacy in general. They're the enemy of privacy
between you and them.
If they can make sure that not only _they can_ get your data, but also that
noone else can get it too, that's a win in their book.
------
vegabook
Tor gets an upvote from the establishment. Is that furthering the cause of
privacy? So we'll now get more exit nodes?
Personally believe that nothing less than a wholesale transport-layer
alternative to the internet is necessary to maintain communications freedom.
Not far fetched to suggest that rooftop antennae running peer-to-peer mesh
networks will gather momentum in coming years. Not to replace the internet,
just as backup, to keep centralised government interests and moneymen at bay.
~~~
DasIch
It's not far fetched to suggest people start seriously running peer-to-peer
mesh networks, it's ridiculous. You won't be able to convince the people who
know about them to run them and you'd need to convince far more people than
that to actually get mesh networks to run reasonably well.
This is ignoring the technical and legal challenges not to mention the fact
that people have tried this for a very long time now and they've failed to get
anywhere significant for just as long.
~~~
vegabook
If your criteria for "getting anywhere significant" is to be even within two
orders of magnitude as performant as the current internet, then you are
correct. If however the aim is to build a distributed, no single point of
failure/control, kbps-class, backup communications system, that's primarily
community-based, and that is NOT controlled by any corporation, ISP, or
government, then there are many such networks already in existence. They're
based on wifi, and completely legal. Clearly they're hobby projects but that
doesn't make them uninteresting or indeed, potentially extremely useful in
low-delta scenarios of societal breakdown and/or centralised oppression.
~~~
DasIch
I'm not talking about bandwidth, I'm talking about coverage alone. Berlin for
example are many people that are into Freifunk and such networks. There are
many more people into technology and the culture and politics associated with
it. Nevertheless they can't even get decent coverage.
The network is worthless not because it works badly, they fail to create an
accessible one to begin with.
~~~
vegabook
> many people into Freifunk .....
I rest my case. There is demand for such a thing even if it's far from
perfect. Not everybody is willing to trust the increasing encroachment by the
authorities into the mainline internet. They're willing to experiment to
ensure that technologies are being worked on that permit independence from
potential authoritarianism (corporate or government).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Future Of The Web — A Draft - drublic
http://thenittygritty.co/the-future-of-the-web-a-draft
Bastian Allgeier describes his idea of decentralized sytems that build the web in the future focusing on self-distributed servers.
======
drublic
Bastian Allgeier describes his idea of decentralized sytems that build the web
in the future focusing on self-distributed servers.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Thinkfuse’s Status Report App Inspired by Google Internal Feature - erin_bury
http://betakit.com/2012/05/15/thinkfuses-status-report-app-inspired-by-google-internal-feature
======
nswanberg
Based on a past thread (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3531075>) it
sounds like Google discontinued Snippets, the tool that inspired this app. Was
it the specific tool that was discontinued or the whole process around the
tool? Why?
~~~
snprbob86
Thinkfuse co-founder here.
I don't know if or why Google discontinued Snippets. Generally, we don't spend
any time thinking about Google Snippets really. It just so happens that the
writers really like to tie a story to Google :-)
Even when I was at Google a few years ago, it was clear that Snippets weren't
the right fit for all teams. Smaller teams sitting around a single pod of
desks probably don't need a tool for written status reporting. Larger teams
create too many individual reports, so that's no good either. If I had to
guess, the _extremely simple_ Snippets tool simply didn't scale.
That said, the key insight we gained from Snippets was when we viewed it
through the lens of "Social Enterprise Software". We were looking at products
like Yammer, Chatter, Jive, etc. And said "Do businesses want social for
social's sake?"
Ultimately, we've come to think of our business as "What would Microsoft
Exchange look like in a post-Facebook world? How would it work if public
folders were the default and private inboxes were secondary?"
It just so happens that weekly status reports presented a wonderful
opportunity: reoccurring, broadcast messages, and required by a manager. It
just oozes with potential for bottoms up viral distribution.
There's _a lot_ of depth to this idea of reoccurring, semi-structured,
broadcast business communication. Status reports, meeting minutes, stakeholder
updates, trip reports, and so on. While there are armies of tools for making
gantt charts and tracking work items, there are precious few for facilitating
the flow of information. Coupled with the simple fact that businesses have a
heartbeat measured by communication on some cadence, and you wind up where
Thinkfuse is going :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Would Anyone Want To Host The Olympics? - Qtz
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/09/economist-explains-0?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ee/hostOlympics
======
nemesisj
I think there's an important psychological dimension that's often missed from
these calculations, particularly for countries that have a chip on their
shoulder. It's a way for the entire world to be focused on something that
you're doing well (hopefully) for a few weeks. Before the Beijing olympics
many Chinese would ask you how you liked China, and when you replied, "yes"
they would say China is "luo hou", which means backward. China is still luo
hou to most who don't live in the richest eastern seaboard cities, and being
able to watch China do something amazing for weeks on end is more than worth
the 40 billion that was spent.
Lets not forget that in developing countries, massive investments are often
sped up just to get the opportunity to bid - in 1999, the Beijing subway was
almost nonexistent. Today it's one of the largest systems in the world, and
was largely constructed prior to the Olympics. Other improvements included the
Beijing airport. Of course, you could say that I'm cherry picking the Chinese
olympics as one of the few examples, and maybe there aren't many advantages
for a city like Tokyo or London, but even here in the UK, many people were
inspired and proud of how their country handled the events. That may not be
worth what it cost, but it is worth something, and I think it's a bit bizarre
that the Economist seems to be puzzled as to why these events poll well with
voters.
~~~
mafribe
The transformation of East London which I believe to have been the main reason
for choosing to host the Olympics in London, has been fairly spectacular. The
Stratford area where the Olympic park was built, used to be a wasteland.
Although I don't know this, I conjecture that the Olympics were used as a
mechanism to force through a substantial number of planning permissions that
would not have been granted otherwise.
~~~
christoph
Visually, it's changed - sure. There's a nice big stadium there that can be
used every so often. It doesn't look as bad as it once did. It's changed very
little of the outside area as far as I can tell though.
Stratford was recently named as the countries worst crime hotspot[0].
According to the FT, "the bounce" has failed to materialise [1].
I would not recommend a walk around the outskirts of the Olympic stadium for
all but the very brave, it's still an area in much poverty with many social
issues completely unresolved, notably violent crime (3.5 for every 1,000
people) [2].
[0] - [http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/westfield-stratfords-
po...](http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/westfield-stratfords-postcode-is-
the-countrys-worst-crime-hotspot-8756741.html)
[1] -
[http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/543cabaa-8a41-11e2-9da4-00144feabd...](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/543cabaa-8a41-11e2-9da4-00144feabdc0.html)
[2] - [http://crimeinlondon.com/newham/stratford-and-new-
town/viole...](http://crimeinlondon.com/newham/stratford-and-new-town/violent-
crime/)
~~~
ljf
It's rough, but not that bad - I live locally (well in the even 'rougher'
Forest Gate) and in the 15 years I've been in the area I've never personally
had or seen any trouble - the kids who might look scary are well brought up -
there isn't the crippling poverty (or as in other parts of London, poverty
next to excessive wealth) that blights other parts.
Much of the crime is theft, rather than violent crime that south London sees -
the postcode mentioned in the link above is the postcode of two shopping
centres and transport interchange - the places you would expect to see high
pick pocketing and shoplifting, which is what the majority crime mentioned in
the report is.
I think the adjacent areas have changed, Leyton and Leytonstone are both far
nicer - and in the last years have had new interesting pubs, cafes and shops
open up.
Would this have happened anyway? Maybe - but most people I talk to are pretty
happy with the changes the area has seen.
I'm still a little sad the plan to open Google offices in the Olympic park was
shelved - that would have brought in a whole heap of jobs and new people to
the area.
~~~
test1235
>in the even 'rougher' Forest Gate
The setting of the movie 'Ill Manors'?
~~~
ljf
Yup, but I'm living in the leafy suburban Victorian bit with a massive park at
the end of my road, I love it here, really culturally diverse but with a real
London history here too, and loads of people that have chosen to make London
there home or grew up in the area.
------
netcan
Current politics seems to demand that everything be an investment. Education,
roads, stadiums. It is supposed to create growth. Stimulate. Save on future
healthcare or welfare costs. etc.
Realistically, the way to think about almost all government spending is
consumption. By spending on health we (hopefully) get to be healthier. By
spending on entertainment we are more entertained. The Olympics or any other
public prestige projects are like when billionaires and dictators do stuff,
but for cities and nations. They get to feel prestigious. Prestige might have
some economic benefits but thinking of it that way misses the point. Prestige
is an end in itself.
~~~
AndrewDucker
It's a question of how much happiness you generate for the cash. The UK Arts
Council gets about £500million to spend. The Olympics cost the UK 18 times
that much.
If the Olympics also produces 18 times as much happiness, then that's a
worthwhile investment. If not, then maybe that money could have been better
spent elsewhere.
~~~
teekert
Flawed logic, that "18 times" depends on the initial 500 million so the cut-
off happiness value is now determined by the initial investment? Nope. The
only way to determine if it makes sense is if there is way to specify
happiness per pound for the olympics. I for one couldn't care less about the
olympics by the way.
------
visakanv
Same reason you'd host any sort of expensive party. To look cool and feel
cool. A lot of international politics make a lot more sense when you remember
we're all in high school.
~~~
arethuza
Actually, I was _very_ skeptical about the London Olympics before the event.
However, I thought the whole thing went splendidly and arguably did give the
whole of the UK a bit of a lift in national morale just when we really needed
it.
Compared to other megaprojects that we seem to be happy to splurge taxpayers
money on (e.g. silly aircraft carriers) it actually seemed pretty good value
for money.
~~~
dingaling
Current estimate for the QE Carrier project is £5.5 billion, or about 60% of
what the Olympics cost.
In comparison to a few weeks of enabling professional athletes 'perform' , the
carriers should give at least 45 years of service life. A tangible
contribution to UK security, rather than just a TV event.
I'm not a fan of how the carrier project has been managed but to say it's
worse value than the Olympics surprises me.
~~~
arethuza
Well, I'm not a fan of the carrier project _or_ the utterly idiotic way it was
managed.
If I'd been given the chance to give my vote on the Olympics I'd have said
"no" \- but given the fact that it was a done deal I decided to enjoy it.
------
tofof
Only an economist could ask a question of the form "why would anyone want to
do <activity without clear economic benefit>?"
I wonder how they manage to reproduce.
~~~
randallsquared
Are you suggesting that hosting the Olympics is a terminal goal, like having
children is?
~~~
netrus
Being entertained is, as feeling a global spirit of humanity, as being proud
to be a good host to the world. That are a lot of positive emotions I connect
with the Olympic Games. It's quite expensive, but you only do it all 20-odd
years (considering also Winter Olympics and Soccer Worldcup). Some modesty is
in place, but it would be such a shame if we did not have these events
anymore.
~~~
3825
I understand that as a community we need children but personally I don't see
myself having kids.
>Some modesty is in place, but it would be such a shame if we did not have
these events anymore.
This might be another reason to do such events (haven't read the article yet).
To make people think the city is "happening", to retain people and dissuade
them from leaving for seemingly more fertile pastures.
------
JanezStupar
First prestige and second corruption opportunities.
Basically its like a high school party for cool kids, with an added bonus that
some of the cool kids get a lot of money at the expense of others.
------
rayiner
If I were a mayor, hosting the olympics would seem like a good way to shove
infrastructure improvements past all the NIMBY assholes that always block
them.
------
codeulike
Its a bit like saying why would anyone want to host a huge dinner party.
~~~
RougeFemme
Except that etiquette would dictate that the individual host foot the bill for
a huge dinner party, whereas the taxpayers foot the bill for the Olympics.
~~~
PeterisP
Anyway, UK taxpayers don't foot the bill for Beijing Olympics - so it's their
(UK as a whole) choice to offer to throw the huge dinner party, or just visit
someone else's party.
------
Lucadg
politicians love big money moving around so they can grab a bit for
themselves. Many big projects in Italy shows this seems to be the main, if not
unique, drive for events like the Olympics.
------
Ueland
Interesting that it got published just now(8th). Oslo,Norway just voted yes to
ask the government for financial guarantee in order to try to get the Vinter
Olympics in 2022.
------
fatihpense
Also for Turkey, It means government gets an excuse for building landmarks to
north Istanbul. Expanding city and continue benefiting from a never-ending
real estate gold rush in Istanbul. Both bidding of big projects and real
estate benefits will go to "friends" of government.
Also they will use this excuse for removing poor people, and destroying houses
that have much higher real estate value than their residents.
------
decasteve
If you have most of the infrastructure already, like Sydney, it makes sense.
Whereas Montreal is still paying debts from hosting the Olympics in 1976.
------
guard-of-terra
Istanbul would be a perfect place for an Olympics, except Erdogan ruined it
for them. Did you know that Istanbul is already third most internationally
traveled city?
~~~
fsniper
Even though I'm very anti Erdoğan I would not be happy If we got the Olympics
with or without Erdoğan. Our Economy is projected as a heaven and Turkey as in
growth but on the contrary it's way too bad and currently sky diving. Putting
one more economic burden as big as the Olympic games would be catastrophic. We
are nearly paying taxes just to breath. (exaggeration yes but not too well
off.) Getting the games would mean more "temprorary but never to be lifted"
taxes to fund the games but in realty just for making more funding for
politicians.
I'm really happy for Istanbul to loose and feeling bad for Tokyo to win.
------
bsullivan01
On top of my head: not all is lost. So if it costs $50 Billion, a lot of it is
recouped via jobs, taxes, infrastructure that would have been built anyway,
tourism etc. Some is lost but that's life. There's the "Made in Japan ...USA,
China" brand and other geopolitical benefits as well. So money might be lost
or it will be lost but so what? Greece has no business in doing them but
Japan, China, USA, Russia and countries alike can afford to lose a
(relatively) little bit of money for indirect benefits. Sometimes people buy a
Lexus when a Toyota does the job just as well, or eat a $100 per head
restaurant instead of a $7 Chinese buffet. Are they dumb?
Politicians also win, there's euphoria in Japan right now and those involved
will see some benefits, just as those been seen during the opening ceremony,
medals etc.
~~~
psutor
Although economically true these days, I found "Greece has no business in
doing [the Olympics]" ironic.
~~~
bsullivan01
I meant to say that bigger countries can absorb a loss, smaller ones like
Greece might even go down (at least faster) because of Olympic losses.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bitrise.io – Apple Credentials Portal Bug - dirtylowprofile
Anybody received an email from Bitrise regarding their bug? It is frustrating that this was not publicly posted by them on any of their blog and social media channels.
======
mgliwka
Can you disclose the contents of your email here for the wider public?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why would anyone want to hijack my HN account? - shashankp
Got a bunch of 'password reset' emails yesterday for this very account, I'm assuming they're malicious. What would anyone stand to gain any HN acct let alone my worthless acct?
======
throw03172019
They want your 1 karma! Usually this happens when someone thinks that is their
username and then they think the email is not being delivered so they keep
trying.
------
1996
Could simply be someone with the same name. Not many people in the US have my
name but someone in another country does, and I see when they try to reset
their iphone using my name for the apple account. They have the gmail address.
We should trade accounts!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Power line corridors provide important wildlife habitat - stevemillburg
https://cloverly.com/blog/power-line-corridors-provide-wildlife-habitat/
======
detaro
Another interesting example is the "green band", the former East-German
border. One long stretch of land where for decades humans where mostly kept
away, the land kept intentionally as short, easy to surveil vegetation to
control the border, creating a habitat and travel route for various species as
a side-effect. And now target of nature conservation efforts to keep it
maintained as such a habitat.
------
Causality1
These corridors have interested me since I first noticed on Google Earth how
massive they are. Straight shots that go for miles and miles
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NIST recommendation: Use random generated passwords - fulldecent
https://github.com/usnistgov/800-63-3/issues/449
======
pixpop
Doesn't that result in them being written down? How do you remember fifty or
so randomly generated passwords?
~~~
fulldecent
You don't. If you can remember it, it will be guessed by a script.
------
fulldecent
NIST has a draft recommendation regarding password security in SP 800-63B.
This issue discusses amending this to have systems generate a randomized
password. This would be preferred rather than users generating their own
passwords.
The idea is to fix the problem of password reuse (XKCD 792).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Before You Get Too Excited About That GitHub Study… - chroma
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/02/12/before-you-get-too-excited-about-that-github-study/
======
exolymph
Yet another sign that people read the meanings they want into most information
that they encounter.
------
Moshe_Silnorin
It's telling that this got swatted.
~~~
chroma
Considering the submission's score and age, it's far lower than it should
be.[1] But I bet that's due to user flags, not moderator action. The
moderators here are fine with controversial subjects being discussed. And if
they sink an article off the front page, they typically say so (and why).
Users, on the other hand... well some of them use flag as downvote.
1\. [http://i.imgur.com/MnUbho7.png](http://i.imgur.com/MnUbho7.png)
~~~
Houshalter
Maybe the domain is flagged? Or the user who submitted it?
This is really weird. The title isn't inflammatory at all, and the article is
pretty objective. The original article was way more controversial (see by the
number of flamewars in the comments) and yet didn't get flagged off the front
page.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How a completely funded kickstarter project faded into darkness - rohu1990
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lifelog/lifelog-remember-life/posts
======
onion2k
Kickstarter projects are often lofty goals to make an app that people think
they can build in a few months, but they forget the "take a wildly pessimistic
guess and then double it" rule of estimating software costs. Project failure
happens. A lot. About 70% of the time in fact (where "failure" means over-
budget, or late, or not to specification, etc. Not _just_ undelivered).
Sidenote: The update mentions spending "countless dollars". If there's one
thing I know about money, it's that it's eminently countable. If the project
starter has spent all the Kickstarter money he should know _exactly_ where and
on what. Whether he chooses to share that information is up to him, but
implying it's all gone and he doesn't really know where should be ringing
alarm bells at Kickstarter HQ.
~~~
rohu1990
You are right, peoples who spend money believing them needs to know what
happened to their money. Founder says he learn a lot from this project, but
peoples didn't fund this project for his Entrepreneur education, they spend it
for the product they told will be available one day. I don't think its that
difficult to launch the App they planned with that long time period they took
(1 and half year)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Let’s embrace the end of food - ph0rque
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/5/soylent-end-foodinsecurity.html
======
vixin
'But the line between dystopia and utopia is a thin one' (in this case). Nope,
I can't detect it at all. A nightmare propelled along by politically correct
nonsense.
------
hnal943
Yes, because the only affect that this could have on the world is that it
would enable capitalism to ruin our lives. What a waste of an article.
~~~
jqm
The second half of the article mentions the positive effects it could have on
the world.
It even went so far as to mention feminism.
------
spainispain
May I take it with wine? :-P
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
...all programming, will, in one sense, be maintenance programming - misham
http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2011-02.html#e2011-02-22T16_06_38.htm
======
dreamux
There will always be a place for innovation, regardless of how software is
architected. Gluing libraries together may seem like an ignorant approach to
how a system truly operates, but these are powerful tools and allow the
development of massively powerful (if inefficient) systems quickly and
cheaply. I don't know why people fear abstraction so much, the same arguments
have been made regarding assembly and memory management, but these become less
pertinent (or more accurately, niched concerns) every day.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Finding Unity in the Math Wars - kalid
http://betterexplained.com/articles/finding-unity-in-the-math-wars/
======
dvse
Some really nice suggestions in the article that for whatever reason are not
often brought up while discussing maths education.
A good way to bootstrap the "math avengers" website would be to get people to
write up running commentary to some classic maths texts, e.g. Silvanus
Thompson (out of copyright), Halmos, Rudin etc.
Essentially all high school maths programs are less than great to put it
politely and often created by people with rather limited appreciation of the
subject. Better university textbooks are not readily accessible without an
instructor. Running commentary from several authors giveing additional
motivation, examples, clarifications or alternative derivations can be of
great help to students and wikipedia style platform can be great for
organising such a project.
Sites like wikipedia and mathoverflow / stackexchange are great for specific
questions but lack structure - centering the efforts around certain
"canonical" texts can help to organise the material which otherwise would be
overwhelming.
~~~
kalid
Thanks for the ideas. Exactly, something like running commentary / different
approaches could work. I greatly prefer text to online videos [not sure why, I
think I get impatient that I can't read at the exact speed I want?] and would
go through those.
Wikipedia is self-described as a reference [not teaching tool], stackexchange
is good for point-fixes [q&a], but some more "guided tour" could be useful.
Especially to help appreciate math as an art/journey vs. pure problem solving.
------
charlieflowers
There are no "Math Wars!"
There is only the Khan Academy, doing great stuff, and a group of disgruntled,
jealous math teachers such as the author of this post, who have levied silly,
petty, baseless criticisms against the Khan Academy.
After launching the silly criticisms and stirring up a little controversy (but
by no means a "war"), they now want to cast the whole hullabaloo as a "war"
because it glorifies their role in the whole thing.
It's like a flea trying to recast his battle against the St. Benard he rides
on as a "war."
Khan Academy is doing great stuff, and getting great results right now. If
you're a jealous math teacher who thinks you have better answers, then quit
spewing a bunch of FUD-like rhetoric with no substance, and fucking DO
SOMETHING to help some people learn math right now. If what you do is so much
better than Khan Academy, then it will become obvious in short order.
P.S. And by "help some people learn math right now", I don't mean your day job
as a teacher/professor. Do something that helps improve the effectiveness of
math education on a grand scale ... as Khan Academy is doing.
P.P.S. The whole thing makes me grumpy as hell, and I'm sure that comes out.
But the reason is this -- if the "math teachers" side of this "war" is so all-
fired passionate about disrupting the status quo and raising the overall
quality of math education in the world, then why on Earth would you take
potshots at Khan Academy, who is doing so much towards that very goal??! If
that truly was your goal, you'd celebrate and help. I think the potshots show
that the greater motivation is jealousy that some outsider has gotten so much
more traction on the problem so quickly.
~~~
kalid
Hi. I appreciate the comments and if you're open to it, I'd like to understand
your point of view.
The "Math Wars" actually reference a longstanding struggle about math
education in the US (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_wars>). That allusion
is more apparent to people in the field however.
I thought I gave the debate a fair and nuanced treatment and I'm curious to
see what _specific_ points are silly or baseless. If it helps, I actually ran
the essay by an online buddy _at_ Khan Academy and he liked the tone and focus
on solutions. So I'm very confused where your offense is coming from.
I totally agree Khan Academy is doing great stuff right now (I recommend them
often). Other educators are as well. The problem is the entire movement is not
cohesive, and the entire online learning movement is losing the attention
battle against individual pop stars.
I don't believe quantity is a direct proxy for quality (see said pop stars),
but if it helps: I've written among the most popular online tutorials for
exponents, natural log, imaginary numbers, introduction to calculus, Bayes's
theorem, Euler's theorem, radians, combinations and permutations... [just
google for any of those topics]. They've collectively reached many millions of
people and are used in dozens of courses.
~~~
charlieflowers
OK, I appreciate your openness to understanding my point of view. I will
articulate/respond respectfully.
First, some quick points:
1\. I must apologize for misinterpreting "Math Wars". I though it was
referring to the recent little "skirmishes" between certain math professors
and Khan Academy (as found here, for example:
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-
sheet/post/khan-a...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-
sheet/post/khan-academy-readers-weigh-in/2012/08/02/gJQA83rW9W_blog.html))
2\. Your tutorials sound fantastic. I haven't had the pleasure of working
through them, but they certainly sound like they are raising the level of
worldwide math education.
So, before I go any further, let me ask -- are you at all entangled with (or
even on the periphery of) the skirmish referred to by the link I posted above,
between Mathalicious founder Karim Kai Ani and Khan Academy? Or the skirmish
triggered by some of Frank Noschese's criticisms, as in
[http://fnoschese.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/you-khant-
ignore-h...](http://fnoschese.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/you-khant-ignore-how-
students-learn/) ?
The reason I ask is because this is what I (perhaps mistakenly) though you
were referring to, and it is many of these criticisms that I feel are baseless
and petty.
If those criticisms really have nothing to do with your current post or even
your current mental outlook, then all that's left for me to do is apologize
for jumping to conclusions and getting overheated for something that has
nothing to do with you.
If those criticism are relevant to your posting and current outlook, then
perhaps it would make sense for me to continue onward by listing those
criticisms that I feel are baseless. If so, I will proceed.
~~~
kalid
Hi Charlie,
Really appreciate you taking the time to explain. I strive to understand
people's point of view, especially when they disagree, because there's
probably some insight or viewpoint I'm missing.
Nope, I'm not personally involved in any of the current incidents but have
been asked several times (privately) to comment. I see the current debate over
Khan Academy as the latest unfortunate incident in the general Math Wars which
have consumed much of the education community's attention [I'm not a formal
teacher, just a programmer who likes math, and wants to explain things as I
wish they were taught to me. I'd really appreciate any feedback if you get a
chance to read any tutorials].
I agree that some silly arguments have been made (on both sides of the debate)
and when egos get involved, tensions rise and it's hard to work towards a
common understanding.
So, not personally involved, and that said -- I'd still be interested in
hearing your thoughts if I've made unfair statements in the essay!
~~~
charlieflowers
OK, then to sum this up quickly:
1\. I was wrong in lumping you in with the criticisms others have made of KA,
and I apologize.
2\. My mistake came from the term "Math Wars" in the title, followed
immediately by your link referencing the "skirmishes", which points to those
criticisms that I find so baseless. Not knowing that "Math Wars" is actually a
specific term, I concluded that the wars were the Khan Academy skirmishes you
linked to. I think a decent percentage of your readers might make a similar
mistake, so maybe this can help you clarify your post.
3\. I didn't see anything I'd call unfair in the essay. You don't explicitly
say that Kahn is a "bad teacher", but you might be implying it. If so, I
disagree and many others would too, but I don't know that the claim is unfair.
4\. I really can't wait to dig into some of your tutorials. The desire "to
explain things as I wish they were taught to me" sounds very promising.
~~~
charlieflowers
OMG! After ALL THIS, I flipped over to glance at some of your tutorials, and
what do you know ...
I HAVE WORKED THROUGH SEVERAL OF THEM AFTER ALL!
lol
In particular, a few years ago on a snowy day I dug into the imaginary number
tutorial, which I found to be fantastic. I had learned about them in school,
of course, but never to the depth that you explained them.
I was actually doing some hobby reading on quantum physics, and needed a good
review of imaginary numbers. Your tutorial was all that and more. I even
tweeted "Imaginary numbers have the rotation rules baked in: it just works."
Small world. Pleased to have had a conversation with you, even if it did start
with me misunderstanding you and harping at you for no reason.
~~~
kalid
Haha, what a small world! Happy to have the conversation too -- in my years as
a blogger, I've realized many disagreements just boil down to
misunderstandings.
Glad if it was able to help you get into quantum, that topic has been on my
to-study list for a while.
~~~
charlieflowers
Do me a favor, and write a good intro to Category Theory! (I'm shutting down
my laptop and going to bed, and I saw all the Category Theory tutorials I
currently have open in other browser tabs).
~~~
kalid
Thanks for the suggestion - that's been on my topic list for a while! So much
math I want to learn :).
------
BigTigger
Sorry, I'm not usually a pain with comparisons but comparing "Super Bass: 268M
views in a year; Khan Academy: 175M views in 5 years" is illogical as Super
Bass, from my quick Googling is around a song lasting 2m30s to Khan Academy
which probably on average has around 10-20minute videos.
This doesn't even go into the fact that people could easily passively listen
to Super Bass in a non-active window while Khan Academy requires much more
active watching from the user.
(i.e. I could have super bass on my iPad in my car while I drive somewhere as
background noise but Khan Academy requires me to be sitting in front of my PC
focused on it).
~~~
kalid
Yeah, it's mostly a tongue-in-cheek comparison :). The meta-point is that the
entire online learning space has a small fraction of society's collective
attention, scraping by against the popularity of a rap artist who will be
forgotten in a few years.
------
dinkumthinkum
Curation isn't the answer. It's just cute and it has a pretty interface. But
it's like ice cream against a nuclear holocaust. There is no silver bullet.
The big issue is that just can't deny the role of parents in the education
problem.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The 9 Oddest Job Interview Questions Asked at Tech Companies in 2011 - MichaelApproved
http://mashable.com/2011/12/27/glassdoor-interview-questions-2011/
======
valuegram
For people wondering about the hourglass problem: 1) @0min: Take both glasses
(4 & 7) and flip them over. 2) @4min: When the 4min glass is empty, flip it
back over 3) @7min: When the 7min glass runs out, flip it back over. 4) @8min:
when the 4min glass is empty, there will be 1 minute in the 7min glass. Flip
the 7 glass. 5) @9min: When the 7min glass runs out, you will be at 9min.
~~~
MichaelApproved
Reminds me of the water puzzle in Die Hard 3.
------
byoung2
For the 20 destructible bulbs and 100 floors, what's the fewest number of
tries? I thought of this way: start at floor 50 and drop bulb 1. If it breaks,
go to floor 25, if not, go to floor 75. Keep going to the floor halfway
between the last floor and the boundary you want to test. You can do it in
about 8 tries. Is there a way to do it in fewer tries?
~~~
MichaelApproved
I think that's the way to work it and it relates to how a look up is performed
in a database.
------
bogadynamics
Always have to be on the lookout for trick questions (i.e. Tesla Motor's
question on water displacement). My rule of thumb: when presented with two
discrete options, assume a third one also exists.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hong Kong is collateral damage in Trump's new trade war with China - partingshots
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Hong-Kong-is-collateral-damage-in-Trump-s-new-trade-war-with-China
======
dirtydroog
Weren't Hong Kongers themselves asking the US to remove HK's special status?
Seems like they're scuttling the ship.
While China seems to think the Covid situation is an opportunity for it to
increase influence, it's probably the opposite. The pandemic has shown China
to be a single point of failure in the supply chain.
Trump is right about China, but everyone else in the West can't/won't agree as
they're too afraid of missing out on Chinese investment funny money.
As for expelling foreigners from HK... why wouldn't they? They're already
expelling foreigners from the mainland.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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PayPal Allowing Me To Use Two Different Passwords To Login - karlhadwen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc2BUwqTwAM
======
eyeareque
Are your passwords similar in the first few chars? ex:
thisismypassword12345 thisismypassword54321
I've heard of password hash issues (amazon had this problem) where they only
used the first 8 chars of a password when generating the hash that they
stored.
~~~
karlhadwen
Afraid not. My passwords are ones that I made up and just kind of got used to
typing, without giving too much away as to what they are...they're completely
different and just words/numbers that have no meaning really.
~~~
eyeareque
That is strange. You should report it to google's bug bounty program so that
they can triage it or get it to a group that can fix it. (I'm not sure of
another avenue to get through to a person there.)
~~~
karlhadwen
Indeed it is. I'm afraid Google only have their own bug bounty program and I
think PayPal no longer have one.
In terms of where to go from here I've no idea.
~~~
eyeareque
If you asked the google bug bounty program about it, I'm sure they'd either
answer for youtube, or send you in the right direction. While unlikely, I
wonder if it was some kind of hash table collision. If you change your
password again that might solve the issue if that was the root cause (a
guess).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Silicon Valley Seasteaders Go Looking for Low-Tax Sites on Land - Osiris30
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-20/silicon-valley-seasteaders-go-looking-for-low-tax-sites-on-land
======
azinman2
So let’s get this straight — rich, educated guys — all from countries where
having a super developed functional government was key to their ability to
have something to generate capital off of — want to take their riches (along
with future capitals riches) and run for the hills... giving back... what?
Nothing? And where to take to? Places that don’t have a developed, functional
government, with uneducated and impoverished populations. Places that don’t
have a labor force suited for sophisticated multi-nationals that want a tax
haven despite promises that somehow the impoverished will he marginally
better.
All this libertarian nonsense coming from the wealthy has gotten to the point
where no longer do people understand the lives dedicated to making theirs
possible has indeed been a key factor in their own personal success.
We need more civic-minded leadership across the population, not less. The
greed is just excessive.
~~~
RomanBob
The riches already gave back, because they got rich making things people want.
>We need more civic-minded leadership across the population, not less. The
greed is just excessive.
This is the wishful thinking that statists will always use. the state will be
fine if only people would be better. Well people are not better and never will
be, so we need a system whereby we do not grant people, who will never be
better, power over their fellow men.
------
m463
There is another thread on this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21866017](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21866017)
------
sevencolors
I feel like humans have been trying to achieve some variation of this "utopia"
for so long. I like to think it could work (in theory). But seeing so much
failure due to greed, hubris, naiveté, etc. Makes me doubt it can work
~~~
manicdee
It can’t work because all utopias assume the world is full of people exactly
like the founder.
~~~
davidivadavid
All naive utopias do.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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TextMate 2.0 goes open source in response to OS X restrictions - stefanve
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/08/textmate-2-0-goes-open-source-in-response-to-os-x-restrictions/
https://github.com/textmate/textmate
======
matthewmacleod
This is an old article, and it's rubbish anyway. The sandboxing restrictions
on App Store downloads are obviously not about "restriction of freedoms" so
much as security.
~~~
stefanve
Yeah I just noticed that, sorry, also I thought that it being open sourced was
more interesting than the reason why.
------
stefanve
[https://github.com/textmate/textmate](https://github.com/textmate/textmate)
It's is an older post, but new for me and new for the HN system :)
------
abalone
The article is over a year old.
OS X sandboxing has exactly nothing to with the open vs. closed debate.
Sounded more like an attempt to shift attention away from the fact that
TextMate 2.0 was at least 3+ years late at the time it was abando..i mean open
sourced.
~~~
bitboxer
It is not abandoned. Just look at the github repo. I get updates for my
TextMate 2.0 at least weekly.
------
sleepyhead
Please add (2012) to the link.
~~~
stefanve
I'm sorry didn't noticed it is over a year old I thought a couple of months.
I'm unable to change the title as I'm not aloud to do that anymore. I was
triggered by the lime editor post to see how the 2.0 version was coming along
so I searched and stumbled upon this.
------
hajderr
The battle of the editors! Which one should I choose now that Lime (
[https://github.com/quarnster/lime](https://github.com/quarnster/lime) ) is
out there too? :).
------
rsynnott
This is a strange article; it's not like any version of TextMate was ever
distributed through the app store, so I'm not sure the relevance of app store
restrictions.
------
api
This is very old news, and I don't see which OSX restrictions in particular
are involved.
------
glazskunrukitis
Wasn't it already open source?
~~~
thousande
Iit is. The article is from Aug 2012
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Letsencrypt just sent an email containing all their users' email addresses - aaronpk
https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/10/12/fail
======
molecule
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11881704](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11881704)
~~~
x0
cheers
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: United States' history from other ancient civilizations' perspective - unexaminedlife
The other night it struck me how interesting it would be to read United States' history from the perspective of other cultures that already existed at the time, and preferably from the perspective of the most ancient civilizations. How did they learn about it, what did they have to say at the time and what was their strategy / approach, how did they handle this new entity throughout history?<p>Any recommendations on books or other resources that cover this?
======
AnimalMuppet
I'm not sure I understand your question. From, say, France's perspective?
Alexis de Tocqueville's _Democracy In America_ may be what you're looking for.
More recently, I'm sure that there are tons of French perspectives on the US
available.
Or do you mean from the perspective of ancient Rome or Greece? That would more
likely be speculative historical fiction. Someone may have written such, but I
don't know of any examples.
~~~
unexaminedlife
I guess China would be the first specific that came to mind while thinking of
this. That they were one of Earth's first human civilizations, and still exist
as a nation today, intrigues me if we could peer deeply inside their
historical documents mentioning United States and its inception. Also Egypt.
It seems quite amazing to me to think about the massive trove of historical
documents / knowledge their civilization had already acquired by that time,
and that historical knowledge likely informed their perspective on the
situation. What sort of perspective arose in their country at the time when
they first heard about the United States, and how has that perspective evolved
over the years.
I think there are many facets to this that could be explored, but I don't have
any in particular in mind. More interested to get a better understanding of
what's out there for a native English speaker to consume on this topic.
~~~
yesenadam
Definitely read _Democracy in America_ , it's amazing. The best, most
insightful book on today's USA that I've read, though written in the 1830s.
Even the chapter titles are fascinating. Some from Volume II:
_Why Democratic Nations Show A More Ardent And Enduring Love Of Equality Than
Of Liberty_
_The Principle Of Equality Suggests To The Americans The Idea Of The
Indefinite Perfectibility Of Man_
_Of The Taste For Physical Well-Being In America_
_Causes Of Fanatical Enthusiasm In Some Americans_
_The Americans Combat Individualism By The Principle Of Interest Rightly
Understood_
_Of The Spirit In Which The Americans Cultivate The Arts_
_Why The National Vanity Of The Americans Is More Restless And Captious Than
That Of The English_
_How The Americans Understand The Equality Of The Sexes_
_Why So Many Ambitious Men And So Little Lofty Ambition Are To Be Found In
The United States_
[https://www.gutenberg.org/files/816/816-h/816-h.htm#link2HCH...](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/816/816-h/816-h.htm#link2HCH0060)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Factoring may be easier than we think (2016) - braised_babbage
http://math.mit.edu/~cohn/Thoughts/factoring.html
======
waynecochran
Imagine what you would do if you discovered how to factor efficiently?
Think carefully. You now how the power to decrypt much of the world's banking
and internet traffic and spoof certificates. There are forces in this world
that would kill you to have this power. Would you publish your findings for
everlasting fame? Would you sell it to the NSA for money (remember you can
prove your power without releasing your algorithm)? Would you use it for
personal gain or power? Who would you tell first? Who do you trust?
~~~
vbezhenar
1\. Setup few servers operating in different countries, pay for a few years
and set up a timer which will publish this algorithm on few public websites,
then destroy all credentials, so it could not be undone.
2\. Steal bitcoins from very old wallets with some small amounts. Supposedly
those wallets are lost. Steal enough to have enough money to live a good life.
Well, if for some reason I would have enough money, skip this step.
3\. Break google.com certificate and mail hashes to Google Security team. Ask
them to disclose that factorization is broken, so the rest of the world can
prepare. Repeat with some other big companies.
4\. Disclose algorithm when the world is ready.
~~~
Ar-Curunir
Factoring doesn't allow you to break discrete log; you won't be able to steal
from old wallets.
~~~
phkahler
It's been a long time since I looked at this but IIRC factoring and discreet
log are equivalent.
~~~
dvdkhlng
It's also a long time since I looked at this, but I recall pretty clearly,
that factoring is "easier" than DLP. "Easier" as in factoring is reducible [1]
to the DLP.
I.e. if you could do DLP in polynomial time, then also factoring becomes
polynomial (thanks to Shor's Algorithm [2]).
The reverse, however, is not currently known to be true AFAICS: having an
oracle that computes the DLP does not help you to speed up factoring (at least
not in a way that makes it polynomial).
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_(complexity)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_\(complexity\))
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm)
(EDIT: typo)
~~~
baby
They are equivalent according to this:
[https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/9385/reduction-
of...](https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/9385/reduction-of-integer-
factorization-to-discrete-logarithm-problem)
~~~
dvdkhlng
I think you are mistaken, they are not equivalent in any way that would be
meaningful to assessing cryptographic strength.
The stack-exchange questions that you link to refers to [1] "Discrete
Logarithms and Factoring". Section 1 "Introduction" already states many facts
that imply that DLP is hard, even if you can factor:
* fastest known method for DLP is O(exp(c sqrt(log n log log n)))
* 1. 3c) "if we can factor in polynomial time, then to quickly solve a^x ≡ b mod n, all we need are solutions modulo the prime divisors of n"
Note that "solutions modulo the prime divisors of n" are still instances of
the DLP with super-polynomial complexity, and in cryptographic applications N
is usually a prime number anyway (DHE, ElGamal crypto-system), so 1 3c) does
not actually apply.
See also the paper's section 6 final remarks "Conversely, one can ask for a
fast algorithm for prime-modulus problems, assuming all needed factorizations.
Both of these questions remain unanswered".
[1]
[https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/1984/CSD-84-186...](https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/1984/CSD-84-186.pdf)
------
Jabbles
_Let 's say a serious attempt consists of several months of work by an expert,
someone who knows enough number theory to read the literature on this problem.
Then the number of people who have seriously tried must be on the order of
magnitude of 100._
In academia, maybe. But I would not be surprised if millenia of experts' time
has been spent on this problem in intelligence agencies.
~~~
alexandercrohde
But if intelligence agencies broke factoring, would we know? Maybe they have.
~~~
jahnu
If they have then they are using it exceedingly sparingly.
I strongly suspect it would be impossible to use it to any moderate degree
without being found out in one way or another.
I know this is a very very poorly worded question :) but I wonder what the
most amazing secret was that was held for the longest time?
~~~
komali2
> but I wonder what the most amazing secret was that was held for the longest
> time?
Very relevant, probably the Allie's breaking the Axis enigma code in WWII.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra)
If the NSA broke RSA, they'd have a similar program set up to ensure nobody
notices.
------
est31
The US federal government once expended 10 percent of the US's electric energy
supply in the Manhattan project for getting weapons grade nuclear material.
This gives a rough ballpark for the amount of energy they are willing to
invest into major strategic advancements.
However, if you apply Landauer's principle, current factoring algorithms would
require enough energy to boil all oceans on the earth, that's a lot even
compared to the US's energy supply.
So algorithmic improvements are the real danger basically. Even if we
discovered a decryption method now, and immediately everyone stopped using
RSA, there would still be an immense impact because all the past encrypted
traffic that someone might have stored somewhere suddenly becomes decryptable.
And usually, traffic from 20 years ago is still relevant today.
~~~
0xb100db1ade
> current factoring algorithms would require enough energy to boil all oceans
> on the earth, that's a lot even compared to the US's energy supply.
Interesting. For what algorithm & key size?
I'd love to quote this. I've heard it before but I don't remember the source.
~~~
est31
[https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/635.pdf](https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/635.pdf)
> Boiling all water on the planet (including all starfish) amounts to about
> 2^24 lakes of Geneva and leads to global security: 114-bit symmetric
> cryptosystems, 228-bit cryptographic hashes, 2380-bit RSA. This needs to be
> done 16 thousand times to break AES-128, SHA-256, or 3064-bit RSA.
I think this paper isn't using Landauer's bounds though, but conventional
computers. So maybe my claim was wrong, because we aren't 16 thousand times
away from Landauer's bounds but millions [1].
[1]:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20141219043239/http://www.bloomf...](https://web.archive.org/web/20141219043239/http://www.bloomfieldknoble.com/nanomagnet-
memories-approach-low-power-limit/)
~~~
johndough
But why the starfish.
~~~
alfiedotwtf
Because if you're already boiling the oceans, you probably won't have enough
left over in the budget for marine conservation.
------
doubleunplussed
I've heard the following called "Aaronson's trilemma": Either the extended
Church-Turing thesis is false, or quantum computers are impossible, or...there
exists a classical polynomial factoring algorithm that runs in polynomial
time.
One of these things must be true, and debates around quantum computing usually
focus on the first two. But as argued, we don't have great reasons to believe
factoring in polynomial time is impossible. We certainly don't have a proof
that no such algorithm exists.
~~~
wbl
What is the extended Church-Turing thesis? We already know quantum computers
give speedups beyond classical lower bounds.
~~~
daveFNbuck
It's basically that BPP captures all realistic polynomial-time computations.
The speedup would have to be sufficient to show something like a problem in
BQP that isn't in BPP. I don't think anyone has been able to show that
unconditionally yet.
You'd also need to accept that Quantum computers are realistic, which is why
Aaronson's trilemma includes quantum computers being impossible.
~~~
scottlocklin
This sort of statement is exactly why serious people shouldn't take "quantum
complexity theory" seriously. The complexity class BQP is bullshit: there are
no quantum computers, the end.
Feel free to prove me wrong by building one which does useful calculations. No
time limit, until you die, in which case "time's up."
Edit add for downvoters: the strong Church Turing thesis is also almost
certainly, and very obviously bullshit. How does that make you feel?
~~~
daveFNbuck
Which statement are you saying demonstrates why people shouldn't take quantum
complexity theory seriously?
~~~
scottlocklin
BQP doesn't exist: there are no quantum computers. Saying BQP is like saying
"magic fairy dust perfect unitary transformers that effectively encode a
perfect complex number in the same sense a protractor theoretically can solve
NP-complete problems by encoding real numbers."
~~~
doubleunplussed
The qbits and unitaries don't have to be perfect - it's about how things scale
when you add qbits. Quantum error correction shows that you can add more qbits
to make up for imperfection, and still be left with a quantum computer, i. e.
the imperfection hasn't demoted the thing to a classical computer.
Of course they haven't built one yet, but none of the difficulties encountered
so far have involved discovering new physics, which is what you would need to
do to rule out quantum computers since the laws of physics as currently
understood permit them.
~~~
scottlocklin
You've just regurgitated Aaronson's statement on the topic. Aaronson never
studied physics, and has probably never fiddled with an op-amp or tried to
make entangled anything in the world of matter. There's zero evidence quantum
error correction will work; it's just an idea with no basis in the world of
matter. There's zero evidence you can meaningfully and usefully manipulate
quantum coherent states, let alone manipulate an exponentially huge number of
them with a polynomially large number of computational elements, which is the
essential claim of quantum computing. They make great claims: great claims
need evidence; not theoretical wankery. Building a couple of scalable error
corrected qubits would be a great start; it might even cause me to shut up
about it.
Never in the history of the human race has something as complex as a computer
architecture existed in the theoretical world before it exists in some form in
the physical world, let alone one for which we define complexity classes.
The entire field is intensely silly, and the last time I said so in a public
place, the waiter turned out to be some dude who just got his Ph.D. in the
subject. He didn't agree with me exactly, but the fact the dude had a job
bringing people steaks for a living is a decent argument I'm right.
~~~
doubleunplussed
My arguments are my own. I am an atomic physicist, and I meaningfully and
usefully manipulate coherent quantum states every day. Not for making a
quantum computer mind you, but quantum states nonetheless. Quantum mechanics
works. The atoms do exactly what the Schrödinger equation says they should,
however much entanglement is added. We are yet to see it break down. Plenty of
my colleagues are working on quantum computers, with atoms, ions, photons, and
solid state systems, and from where I stand it doesn't look like nonsense. It
looks steady progress, and if there are insurmountable barriers, they have not
yet been encountered.
I am not certain that quantum computers are possible, but I am certain that
you are _wildly_ overconfident that they are not.
~~~
scottlocklin
How much money are you willing to stake on that statement? I'll make a market
for you; if you think your education gives you an edge over the wildly
overconfident guy -we can even stick it on a blockchain that is quantum future
proof if you like. Your choice.
Saying "quantum mechanics works" is not the same as saying "I can manipulate
exponential QM states with polynomial imperfect physical devices." In the
early days, people sketched out optical quantum computers that totally worked,
but had exponential growth in elements with quantum states. Which, I bet, is
how the universe is always going to work.
Money where your mouth is: I haven't found any other good shorts for this
shitty idea.
~~~
doubleunplussed
I asked you elsewhere in the thread what odds you're willing to bet at, so
absolutely I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'll happily bet
that there will be a demonstration of 'quantum supremacy' within 20 years -
that is, a quantum computer computing something faster than a classical
computer, whether it's Grover's algorithm or factoring or something else.
Let's say by the 1st of July 2039.
I'm not super confident there will be quantum computers, whereas you seem very
confident there will not be. What do you think the probability of quantum
supremacy within 20 years is? If you think it's 5 % and I think it's 50 %,
perhaps we can take the geometric mean and bet at 6:1 odds (~15% chance).
Will you give me those odds? Let's say I stake $200. Then I'd give you that if
I lose, and you'd give me $1200 if I win. Or we can increase the amount a bit.
Today's dollars, we can inflation adjust since it'll be 20 years.
The terms might sound favourable to me, but you seem very confident that there
won't be quantum computers ever, so less than 15% chance in the next 20 years
seems consistent with your belief.
I wouldn't know how to put the bet on a blockchain, but if you know about that
and want to, I'm happy. Otherwise I am happy to just take your word.
We can also shorten the duration of the bet, but I would want to shift the
odds a bit since although I think quantum computers have a decent chance of
being possible, there is considerable uncertainty in how long it would take to
get to the point of demonstrating quantum supremacy. Probably I would accept
doubling the odds if the duration of the bet were halved and so on.
~~~
scottlocklin
We'd need a hard definition of "quantum supremacy" -I believe there have been
several press releases claiming this already, and I think you agree with me
that there are no such machines at hand.
There's this ethereum thing called Augur we could use to place the bet, though
that's an interesting bet in itself (ethereum and auger being around in 20
years is not a sure thing). I suppose also "long bets." If you google my name
you can find my contact info.
------
mabbo
In a sense, this is terrifying. I mean, the math nerd in me is delighted at
the idea, but in all practical senses if someone were to stumble upon and
share a usably fast factoring algorithm tomorrow, the sky would fall.
Sure, lots of crypto exists that isn't prime factoring based and we could move
to that in a hurry- but it would be a lot like if we'd realized the Y2K
problem on December 31st, 1999. Everything would need to be updated right now,
immediately, today.
And yet part of me is kind of excited it could happen.
~~~
Mirioron
It wouldn't even be as tame as you mentioned. Any encrypted information that
has been caught and stored would also become available.
------
JacksonGariety
> Of course, I have no real evidence for my views...
> On the other hand, the people who talk about the great difficulty of
> factoring have equally little evidence...
This is a classic antinomy (paradox): one can argue indefinitely in either
direction, because the question lies along the bounds of human reason (or so
says Immanuel Kant).
The two sentences above, in themselves, provide a bit of evidence of the
impossibility of solving the problem, and at the same time provide evidence
for the possibility of handling this problem as a significant phenomenon of
pure mathematics.
:)
EDIT: I mean only that the insolubility of the problem may itself be of
mathematical use: it may (insofar as it is unsolvable, and insofar as it
appears to be soluble) amount to a kind of 'anchor' for mathematics, a marker
that indicates the boundary of the mathematical sciences, and that such a
boundary would be of tremendous import to mathematicians and philosophers. Why
is _this_ problem, _this_ problem specifically, unsolvable? (Rather than some
other problem that has been solved?)
tl;dr The question of "why have we have trying to solve this problem for
millennia?" is perhaps more significant for mathematics than the solution to
the problem.
------
kmill
This is the Henry Cohn that recently received recognition for his work on
optimal sphere packings in 8 and 24 dimensions:
[http://www.ams.org/journals/notices/201804/rnoti-p463.pdf](http://www.ams.org/journals/notices/201804/rnoti-p463.pdf)
------
JPLeRouzic
I am not a scientist, but in my team 15 years ago, many people much more
talented than me were in love with public cryptography. For them encryption
with a 1024 key was perfect, impossible to break. They did not even considered
that several RSA challenges had already been found.
Even if I had no education in mathematics I tried to show that in fact it was
feasible to factor some enough large numbers with "bc" (using square root and
a few other simple tricks) so the risk of having encryption broken by
professionals was quite serious.
My boss asked to another guy for its advice, which was essentially that for a
start he would not try to break any encryption scheme anyway. And that was the
end of the story. The unstated lesson was probably that there were no reason
to expect a career boost by working on such topics.
~~~
delinka
I'm not following your story.
At the time when 1024-bit numbers used in RSA were 'perfect', it was
infeasible to factor the number in a reasonable amount of time. The most
straightforward approach is just to iterate over integers from 2 to your
target number (call it _n_ ), and see if anything divides evenly. Now, you
start looking for shortcuts. First, you can test only half the numbers,
because the second half will give identical results (e.g. n=20, n/2 = 10;
later, n/10 = 2; no need to even test the second half of the range.) Next, it
becomes obvious that we only care about odd numbers (if it's divisible by an
even number, it's divisible by two); but really, when it comes down do it, we
only care about prime factors (for one thing, all non-primes can be decomposed
into prime factors; for another, we used prime numbers to get _n_.) And
lastly, for the simple shortcuts, you really only have to get to int(sqrt( _n_
)) + 1 or so. So we've cut down the number of integers we have to divide with.
Did we find the two prime factors of our _n_ in a "reasonable" time? If so,
just double the bit length to get a problem twice as hard. Every publicly-
known shortcut to factoring large numbers just means you need to make your _n_
larger to increase the workload on an attacker.
The question then becomes: has anyone found a shortcut that will factor any
number within a "reasonable" time? We don't know.
As to your career-related comments, I read cluelessness from your boss, and
carelessness from the 'other guy' \- if OG "would not try to break any
encryption scheme," then he's not the person whose advice you want about the
strength of cryptosystems. Your boss just lacked critical thinking skills.
~~~
garmaine
Even 15 years ago 1024-bit numbers were not secure.
~~~
qq3
I'm working on RSA4096 and this is secure minimum up to 2040. Factoring is
secure for all times, that's a numeric principle. You only have to make the
key/number greater. I'm working for 50 years with prime numbers and now I'm
where I was when I was 17. Only a little nearer. What Fermat didn't find and
Euler missed (!) is the knowledge that there is no super'algorhythm' for
factoring.
------
PhantomGremlin
Nobody yet has mentioned a film that was premised on the invention of a black
box "capable of breaking the encryption of nearly every computer system".
IIRC the movie plot was somewhat convoluted and confusing and I don't have any
desire to see it again. I'm bringing it up because there are a number of "what
would you do if" posts here.
In the end, the "sneakers" use the box to cause: _the sudden bankruptcy of the
Republican National Committee, and the simultaneous receipt of large anonymous
donations by Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and the United Negro College
Fund._
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakers_(1992_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakers_\(1992_film\))
------
webdva
> The first thing to realize is that until the advent of public key
> cryptography in the 1970's, few people cared about factoring. Some people
> were interested in it for its intrinsic beauty, but nobody thought it was
> good for anything, and it certainly wasn't the notorious unsolved problem it
> is today. If anything, it was mildly obscure.
"There is no branch of mathematics, however abstract, which may not some day
be applied to phenomena of the real world." \- Nikolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky
Applied mathematics is a problem looking for a solution and pure or abstract
mathematics is a solution looking for a problem. An instance of this is the
extension of the set of complex numbers called the quaternions discovered long
ago which eventually found their application in affairs that require the
representation of orientations in three dimensions, such as in computer
graphics.
It seems here then that a motivated entrepreneur can establish a remunerative
business should he or she find a solution to this prime factoring problem.
------
debatem1
I think it's interesting how many people worry about factorization. A second
preimage attack on SHA2 would be at least as dangerous, and nowhere near as
many people know or care about its assumptions.
~~~
hackcasual
Breaking hashes aren't a decision problem, so they're not directly comparable,
but sha2 isn't on the same shaky mathematical ground that RSA is.
~~~
phicoh
SHA-2 was on related shaky ground. Remember that in relatively short
significant advances were made in breaking MD-5 and SHA-1. SHA-2 is based on
similar constructs as MD-5/SHA-1.
For this reason the SHA-3 competition was started to find a new hash function
based on different principles.
In the end it was found that creating practical attacks for SHA-2 is too hard.
But we don't know what the future will bring.
The difference between RSA and SHA-2 is that RSA is a very nice mathematical
structure and we are still learning a lot about (prime) numbers. In contrast,
SHA-2 is weird structure that has to solve a hard problem. It is hard to
attack.
------
dooglius
EDIT: this comment was mistaken, bitcoin uses elliptic curve based key pairs,
as hackcasual points out below.
One thing to keep in mind:
Bitcoin wallets are implemented with public/private key pairs. If you believed
that you had a method to crack that, well you probably couldn't just take all
the bitcoin (people would notice and the market value would evaporate), but
you could probably figure out a way to make at least 1% (a couple billion). So
if it can be broken with a group of smart people thinking hard, that sounds
like a startup opportunity.
~~~
whatshisface
If Bitcoin was broken it would instantly become worthless.
~~~
dumbfoundded
Not if you did it in a smart way. Let's say you could arbitrarily make
transactions. Probably the best way to do it would be to steal all the coins
from a particular exchange, like Coinbase. Then everyone would think Coinbase
pwnd but bitcoin is fine. Rinse and repeat with other exchanges once a year
and you can make a hefty profit.
------
miccah
I did a toy project on wheel factorization if anyone is interested. Through it
I learned some interesting math and ancient algorithms. It is by no means the
cutting edge of factorization, but it was a fun little project.
[https://github.com/mcastorina/wheel-
factorization/blob/maste...](https://github.com/mcastorina/wheel-
factorization/blob/master/README.md#performance)
------
dang
Discussed at the time:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12355431](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12355431)
------
karmakaze
With a grain of salt
> Of course, I have no real evidence for my views: [...]
~~~
6gvONxR4sf7o
Might want to include context there:
>Of course, I have no real evidence for my views; ... On the other hand, the
people who talk about the great difficulty of factoring have equally little
evidence.
~~~
karmakaze
When we talk about the 'difficulty of factoring' there's an implication. The
direct meaning is that there may well be a simple algorithm for factoring that
has yet to be discovered. No one disputes this.
The implied idea is that this discovery could happen at any time and all
things depending on it are at risk. This is also true but it's unreasonable to
think that it is likely given that much effort has been put into this.
Yes we don't know, but two unknowns are not 50:50. Of course regardless of how
you estimate its truth consider the cost of being wrong when using anything
depending on it.
------
carapace
Purely tangential, speculative questions: If you did prove that P = NP would
you tell anyone? If so, how? Why?
~~~
nneonneo
Yes, I’d check the proof with some trusted colleagues, because odds are I’m
wrong and I’d want to know why.
P=NP is a very hard problem and there have been a lot of failed solutions
(including some that are flawed for very subtle reasons that can be easy to
overlook). Even many famous, well known people have fallen into the trap of
thinking they have a viable solution.
------
adamnemecek
Fast factorization is going to be one of the killer apps of photonic
computers.
~~~
goerz
You mean quantum computing (for which photonics are not a leading candidate),
or regular photonic computing? Because the latter doesn’t scale any better
than normal computers.
------
waynecochran
I have always wondered if the NSA has figured out how to factor effeciently.
~~~
phicoh
One thing to remember here is that RSA can be used in 2 ways: to encrypt and
to sign.
If RSA is used to encrypt (for example if you send an encrypted message using
PGP) then factoring directly breaks the encryption.
In practice, a lot of encryption on the Internet uses RSA to sign the hash of
a key obtained using Diffie-Hellman. In this case breaking RSA would allow the
NSA to impersonate but not directly break existing communications. The problem
with impersonation is that it is very noticeable.
What I find odd about the linked article is that it only talks about
factoring. In practice, the discrete log. problem is just as important and is
very much related to factoring.
------
naveen99
The reason factoring is hard is because finding very large probably prime
numbers is easier making number sieve based methods useless for the purpose of
breaking large numbers used in cryptography.
------
carapace
You can build a machine with a laser and a big mirror.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Technical founder seeking a technical co-founder - jason_wang
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/3885337620.html
======
mathattack
I'm trying to figure out if this is earnest, or a satire on "Non-technical
founder seeking a technical co-founder"
------
hauschi
CTO & Co-CTO?
~~~
jason_wang
CTO.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GitHub vs. Bitbucket vs. GitLab vs. Coding – A Comparison - sidcool
https://medium.com/flow-ci/github-vs-bitbucket-vs-gitlab-vs-coding-7cf2b43888a1#.4yiueiza6
======
mathiasrw
Would be nice if [https://gogs.io](https://gogs.io) was also included...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I've just built this great PostgreSQL Database. How do I get it to my users? - justintocci
Envelope is a complete platform that makes it easy to build web apps on top of PostgreSQL using just HTML and SQL.<p>visit envelope.xyz for details.
======
justintocci
For your convenience:
How Does Envelope Work?
[http://envelope.xyz/how.html](http://envelope.xyz/how.html)
Envelope is released under a PostgreSQL style License.
[http://envelope.xyz/license.html](http://envelope.xyz/license.html)
Live Demo Instructions
[http://envelope.xyz/index.html#LiveDemo](http://envelope.xyz/index.html#LiveDemo)
Download
[http://envelope.xyz/download.html](http://envelope.xyz/download.html)
Github Repo
[https://github.com/greyspots/envelope](https://github.com/greyspots/envelope)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids - ALee
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2017/08/24/melinda-gates-i-spent-my-career-in-technology-i-wasnt-prepared-for-its-effect-on-my-kids/
======
citizenkeen
'One of my favorite things you can do is plan a “device-free dinner.”'
_A_ device free dinner? Why aren't all of them? These weird little "small
gestures" make me feel like people have lost control of their homes.
We have a landline expressly to give out to emergency contacts. And dinner is
tech free. Every night.
I think the main problem is tech has made everything _else_ easier, but
parenting harder, and parents just aren't prepared to fight the battles / put
in the work. A parent who is staring at Instagram when they're at the park
shouldn't be surprised that their kids wants screens, too.
~~~
careersuicide
I think this is the one thing about technology I'm old fashioned about (I roll
my eyes _hard_ when people say stuff like "You should delete your Facebook
account, you'll be better off."). If I'm eating food with someone else the
phone goes away. The only exception is if in the course of conversation an
easily googleable question is asked and both the other person/people and I are
actually interested in the answer instead of just guessing. But after that the
phone goes right back in my pocket. It's not a hard rule, but it's one I do
make a conscious effort to follow.
I've noticed that others are a lot less likely to pull out their phones and
stare while at the table if I don't do it myself. There's just something kinda
sad to me when I see couples at a niceish restaurant and neither person is
talking and both are looking at Facebook or Twitter and there's still food on
their plates. I know you can't extrapolate that to a person's entire
relationship, but it just seems kinda... unfortunate I guess.
~~~
jancsika
So the question that I don't know the answer to: would those couples have
engaged each other in meaningful conversation (meaningful to _them_ ) had
cellphones not existed? Or does the presence of cellphones reveal that a large
number of people were never particularly interested in engaging meaningfully
with others but would only _feign_ interest when the alibi of the cellphone
isn't available?
~~~
briankelly
Or a more optimistic view: it takes some effort to get to interesting
conversation; you have to go through some fakeish small talk to find a topic
worth discussing. Phones don't require that effort, they're the path of least
resistance.
~~~
msla
Smalltalk is ideally about finding a hook, a more interesting shared topic
which can support a more fulfilling conversation. Otherwise, it's just killing
time, and I daresay most here have more intellectually stimulating ways to
kill time.
The complexity is when people regard a lack of smalltalk as a chilly
isolation. I personally have been called stuck-up because I didn't engage in
smalltalk at school. Some cultures are more oriented to this than others.
------
mcone
This doesn't invalidate the article, but I feel the need to point out that the
author lives in a $63 million house with $80,000 worth of TV screens lining
the walls. "Anyone in the house can change the screens’ displays to their
favorite painting or photograph, in effect personalizing the room (via
lighting, temperature, and even decor) to the guest’s own flavor." [0]
They certainly didn't do themselves any favors when they built their house.
[0] [http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-
biggest/12-unbelieva...](http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-
biggest/12-unbelievable-facts-about-bill-gates-house/)
~~~
devmunchies
Yes, a "career in tech" and a tech-lifestyle are different things and you can
keep them separated. Based on the article and your comment it seems they have
more of a problem with the latter.
~~~
nxc18
This is big. I used to work for a manager who didn't even have a computer at
home (and no smartphone in 2013). She definitely excelled at keeping tech out
of her daily life.
~~~
provost
> She definitely excelled at keeping tech out of her daily life.
I'm curious -- what was she managing? Did she excel in her role?
------
luckydude
I'm a retired geek but I do tractor work, I just pulled a 14 hour day and I'm
having some wine so salt heavily.
In my opinion, the best thing you can do with kids is create boredom. If they
have access to a shop, or some lumber, they will start to build stuff. If kids
are bored and they turn that into building, that's the first step towards
getting into a good undergrad school. Building stuff is good.
The hard part, as parents, is creating that boredom. It's so easy to give them
the video game babysitter. I haven't done well at that. I wish I had some
magic statement that made that part easy but that part is super super hard.
The other thing I'd say about kids, and I hate this, really hate this, is
private school. It's better. My kids went and were on track to go to Los Gatos
High School which is a pretty decent school. For various reasons we found
kirby.org and both of my kids go there and it's a shit ton better. I hate
private schools, I think kids should experience the full range of people, not
just the rich kids that get into private schools, but wow, the private school
was so much better. So much better. Hugely better. My younger son who hates
that school, it's a nerd school and he's a jock, came to me and said "yeah, I
want to go there, it's better than Los Gatos". My older kid is applying to
schools and he has a shot at the ivys, that's all the private school.
I'm ashamed to admit that I like private schools, but wow, have they been good
for my kids.
~~~
sedachv
> I'm ashamed to admit that I like private schools, but wow, have they been
> good for my kids.
Nothing to be ashamed about. You want the best for your children and private
schools get more money.
The problem is not that private schools are better, but that public schools
are so much worse. The people feeling shame should be the politicians who have
worked and continue to work to dismantle the public education system (in large
part motivated by religious fundamentalists seeking to replace public
education with voucher-based religious schools), and the people that vote for
them.
~~~
hueving
>in large part motivated by religious fundamentalists seeking to replace
public education with voucher-based religious schools
This can't possibly be the reason. Otherwise the bay area would have the best
schools in the nation because religion here is borderline illegal.
~~~
lotsofpulp
What is the relationship between proportion of non religious people and
quality of schools? There a few factors of bad schools, and along with it a
less than ideal group to classmates. Wealth seems to be the primary problem,
as it creates unstructured homes and poorly funded schools. Another problem is
religious parents who want to teach children that lack of evidence is a good
thing. The fact that the latter want to divert taxpayer funds for their own
agenda is also a cause for bad schools, as it diverts funds from public
schools.
------
Noos
"As its use has proliferated, so has its effects...
...the interviewer, apparently, asks young people (age 18 to 22 years old) the
following: whether men with the (device hidden) are human or not; whether they
are losing contact with reality; whether the relation between eyes and ears is
changing radically, whether they are psychotic or schizophrenic; whether they
are worried about the fate of humanity."
Can you guess the device? It's the Sony Walkman, and the time is the 1980s.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman_effect)
The arguments aren't new or novel. Hosoda was saying similar in the 1980s, and
the Walkman just as easily isolated people in the 1980s as phones do now. yet
somehow humanity survived.
Remember pagers? They were the device of choice in the 1990s for kids, and
they were pilloried just as bad, and even linked to drugs. There's a pretty
decent history of people panicking morally about new technologies and their
dehumanizing effects, and generally people have adapted more or less fine.
~~~
rlglwx
But maybe we have lost something also. As a truly social species, do we not
lose as a society when barriers are erected to sociability? The literature
certainly points to increased social isolation among adults and children. It
also makes the point that loneliness is a risk factor in things like dementia,
being overweight and a litany of other ailments. I reject the notion that
anything new is automatically better and has only net positive effects.
~~~
auganov
If anything, most of the addictive internet stimuli are social to some degree.
I do think there's an interesting analysis to be made of how social
connectedness got redistributed though. Both in terms of absolute
connectedness and who we're connected to.
~~~
curious_fella1
I would argue that these "social" parts of the internet are social in the
shallowest sense of the world. E.g., telling people how your life is without
actually talking to them. I would agree with above that these devices are
adding to (creating?) our social isolation.
~~~
auganov
I don't know the numbers. But if my intuition isn't completely wrong, and I'm
not a total outlier, most seem to spend a lot of time on Messenger (/other IM)
talking. Usually talking about content that is social in nature.
And quite frankly, most "real-life" interactions seem to be pretty much the
same. Just sitting around with phones talking about things you saw on the
[social] Internet.
~~~
robertlagrant
> And quite frankly, most "real-life" interactions seem to be pretty much the
> same. Just sitting around with phones talking about things you saw on the
> [social] Internet
This is a bit of a sad statement. What about conversation in a group, or
debate in a meeting at work, or communicating with your children, or any other
kind of relationship? Not everything can be showing each other videos, as
YouTube can already recommend better than humans can.
~~~
auganov
I'd imagine pre-Internet conversations were just as "sad". The main difference
was you couldn't "show" what you were talking about. Nowadays instead of
verbally describing a conversation with a friend, you'll just do a screenshot
dump.
Given how much social life basically migrated to the Internet, there aren't
that many happenings without a digital trace.
I mean you can't even discuss politics without talking about Trump's
twitter...[0]
Just yesterday grandma was showing me pics my aunt sent her. Pics she found on
cousin's Facebook profile.
[0] We already have political scandals that involve just email dumps, think
how cool things are going to get when we get dumps of facebook/slack/whatever
convos!
------
telesilla
The hardest thing for me has been young children begging, just begging, for
screen time. It's heartbreaking and I know very few parents who have managed
to make no mean no. I grew up watching TV but then, TV was mostly for adults
and I only paid attention those few hours it was child-friendly. I spent
almost the entire decade of the 90s without a television, only going to the
movies or the occasional VHS. Even today, while I'm on my computer for 8
hours/5 days a week, I read books when I stop work or cook or just sit and
talk. I turn off the screen, close the laptop and turn off wifi on my phone. I
worry for the attention span our kids won't have.
When was the last time you let a child just get bored, so they might entertain
themselves with their imagination?
On the other side, when we go out for walks or camping or away from tech, it
really doesn't take long for the kids to adjust.
~~~
mquander
I spent a lot of the decade of the 90s having the best times of my life
immersing myself in video games and the Internet, and looking back it seems to
me like I'm the better for it. I think it should rightfully be heartbreaking
to deny that to a kid who would have it.
~~~
koolba
> I think it should rightfully be heartbreaking to deny that to a kid who
> would have it.
I'm going to assume you haven't seen the steaming piles that are today's kid's
shows and apps. There's no way that crap is as mentally stimulating as content
from the 90s (or before). It's optimized for addiction.
And I'm not saying to cut it off entirely. I'm just saying the new stuff is
universally terrible.
~~~
QAPereo
There's something really sinister about watching a toddler utterly engrossed
in someone unwrapping Kinder eggs, for _hours_. In the 90's, the internet
involved more than just slapping your palm against a screen and not blinking
for the rest of the afternoon, and TV was in limited supply. Today, you never
have to take a break if someone isn't there to teach you how, or even that you
should.
~~~
benologist
In the 90s we watched crap literally engineered to sell toys.
[http://www.retrodomination.com/master-of-your-universe-
the-s...](http://www.retrodomination.com/master-of-your-universe-the-story-of-
he-man/)
~~~
koolba
The difference I see is the addictiveness of on-demand. It's a constant drip
of endorphins not unlike chain smoking or a morphine line.
When we were children we had to wait till weekends to watch those special
weekend shows. We had to wake up early to watch all of them. Hell we even had
to pee or make a snack in the 3 minutes of commercials lest we miss the next
segment!
Nowadays you see kids watching all that crap all the time. Morning, noon, and
night. Parents justify it as "educational content" or they just want some
quiet time. But you have children literally sitting on the shitter for an hour
watching an iPhone.
I'm not expert on raising kids and I'm not saying my generation was perfect
(far from it!), but that can't be good.
------
otakucode
I got Internet access in 1990 when I was 12 years old. Completely unfettered,
unmonitored, unlimited in any way. And I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Certainly many, if not most, kids would end up obsessing over social status
and gossip and similar things. That has nothing to do with technology and
absolutely everything to do with how they deal with their life in general.
They're encouraged to avoid taking an intellectual approach to life, to never
question or doubt their emotional impulses (indeed taught that those impulses
are more trustworthy and 'pure' than conclusions reached intellectually).
They're the kids that have always been popular, the bullies and the kids that
get DUIs before out of high school. You can't protect them from themselves
through any means if you're not willing to address their way of living.
And for the kids that aren't destined to live an adolescence of bickering and
strife, they will flourish with access to the whole of human knowledge and
ability to interact with online communities as an equal, without anyone
knowing their age unless they choose to reveal it.
~~~
mcone
> That has nothing to do with technology and absolutely everything to do with
> how they deal with their life in general.
With all due respect, accessing the internet today is nothing like what it was
in 1990. It's like comparing apples to oranges. There's a huge difference
between accessing a BBS with a modem and pulling an iPhone out your pocket and
pulling up Facebook's newsfeed with a couple taps of your finger. These
applications are _designed_ to be addictive, and people's unfettered ability
to access them anywhere enables their addictions. The physical and technical
barriers that limited your access in 1990 are long gone.
~~~
otakucode
You are right, it is certainly quite a bit different. I'm not sure how
material the differences are though. For what it's worth, I had access to BBS'
prior to that and had already enjoyed discussing things with adults as an
equal before getting a dialup account on a local university mainframe.
Everything was done through a shell account, telnet and gopher and similar. I
mean, I was still able to quite easily find myself to alt.binaries.tasteless
and find extreme porn and all that sort of stuff.
Those things like Facebook and such that are designed to be addictive are only
addictive to the types of people who find that kind of thing alluring. People
who seek social validation whether than evaluating themselves for themselves
can not be protected from that tendency. And that is, whether we like it or
not, the foundation of modern society. It is an inevitable consequence that
such people will spend their lives drowned in neurotic worry. It's not
particularly new, and the systems that make engaging in it so easy also make
leaving that sort of thinking behind if a person wishes to do so.
Ultimately, though, consider the kid. If the kid is a social butterfly, what
effect is withholding tech from them going to have? They're going to be made
bitter, probably be significantly sidelined in their social circles - the
exact place they derive every ounce of their self worth. It wouldn't exactly
be a pretty alternative.
~~~
mcone
I understand what you're saying and agree for the most part. I guess the big
question here is whether or not parents can or should teach their children
self-control. As a parent, should I just give my child access to everything
and hope for the best? Or should I restrict access and hope they don't become
bitter hermits? :)
~~~
williamscales
I guess the real answer is probably somewhere in between - restrict at first
and loosen restrictions as you see fit. Are there a lot of examples of how to
do this effectively? It's a question I wonder about.
------
SunnyCanuck
Have two kids, 14/12\. They've grown up as fully connected kids, have always
had access to their own devices, never more than a year or two behind the Big
Now. We have never imposed "limits for the sake of limits" on their screen
time. I find the idea preposterous, frankly.
We have no issue connecting with them, or doing family things together, or etc
etc etc. If you can't connect with your kids when they have iPhone in hand,
you're not going to be able to connect with your kids even if you're a million
miles from the nearest wireless cloud.
A lot of discussion around this issue is just tired rehashing of the same
complaints every generation over the past 150 years has said about the
incoming generation. Some of y'all in here already sound like grandparents,
lol.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
>We have no issue connecting with them, or //
It's good that all people are exactly the same as you and your kids and that
this will therefore work for everyone, isn't it. /s
~~~
SunnyCanuck
I didn't make any such claim. If you'd like to respond to what was actually
written, feel free. :)
~~~
shakna
> If you can't connect with your kids when they have iPhone in hand, you're
> not going to be able to connect with your kids even if you're a million
> miles from the nearest wireless cloud.
It seems to me, you did make that claim.
~~~
robertlagrant
They were obviously implying that, yes. Then just backpedalling for some
strange reason.
------
bungie4
I have a 14 yr old and a 16 yr old step kids. They both live with their phones
in their hands.
I took them camping this past weekend. Fishing (caught 4 lake trout!), tubing,
camp fire .. it was a blast. Even though their was no cell and no wifi neither
of them could bare to put their phone down AND CHECK IT.
They had fun, but the second they weren't stimulated they were asking to take
a 40 minute boat ride (45mph!) to 'buy some ice cream' and get a cell signal.
Sad.
~~~
saint_fiasco
When I was 14 we always took plenty of snacks and a set of playing cards to
any vacation or outdoor activity.
It doesn't have anything to do with tech. Young people just get bored easily.
------
fzeroracer
When I was a teenager living with my parents we used to have a 'devices free'
dinner where we'd sit in silence and realize that an awkward teenager had
little in common to talk about with his out-of-touch parents. This was the
time where conversation was forced and often led to arguments. Though this
says more about my upbringing than the use of technology.
I think my point is that people see people looking at their phone while in
restaurants or people sitting silently and assuming that this void means that
the social aspect of the human race is doomed for destruction. You can't force
conversation and I've found with friends and even family now that the phone
has replaced forced discussions with something else. And you don't always need
to fill silence with conversation and nonsense.
Similarly I would say there's nothing wrong with lessening the use of
technology your kids use, but at the same time you can't just outright cut
them and yourself out from it. Instead you should adapt; give your kids
positive uses of the TV or their phone. If you try to force devices-free meals
your kid may think that bringing up issues of cyberbullying, facebook etc
might not be appropriate.
------
rayiner
It's a level-headed article. Parenting, like almost nothing else, turns
normal, intelligent, educated people into nutters. A rational, evidence-based
conversation about screen time, breastfeeding, pregnancy, birth, education,
and diet is increasingly impossible to have, especially with millennial
parents.
I just got my four year old an iPhone (with a data plan, because she realized
she didn't have wifi in the car). It's great! She can text me emojis and
Digital Touch messages, and Facetime me at work whenever she wants. It's fine:
[https://www.theguardian.com/science/head-
quarters/2017/jan/0...](https://www.theguardian.com/science/head-
quarters/2017/jan/06/screen-time-guidelines-need-to-be-built-on-evidence-not-
hype).
~~~
rmxt
If your takeaway from your link was that "it's fine" and not "that further
research is necessary"... you are going one step further than the article.
I can understand why people don't want screen time when their kids are
toddlers -- you only get to raise your kids once. If the jury is out on
whether or not "screentime" is bad, some parents err on the side of caution.
Regardless, kids are malleable enough that any "familiarity gap" that the
"iPhone user from age 2" has over the "iPhone user from age 6" has will likely
be near zero within a few months at that age.
What benefits have you found your child to have derived from relatively early
smartphone use beyond being able to have access to their parents at any time
during the day?
My personal take is that, as with all things, moderation is key.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
>beyond being able to have access to their parents at any time during the day
//
That sounds like anything but an advantage if you eventually seek to have
children be independently capable and willing to rely on their own resources.
~~~
saint_fiasco
On the contrary. Being able to communicate with parents at any time lets them
take more calculated risks and grow more independent.
If I had a cellphone when I was a kid, taking the bus for the first time would
not have been so terrifying.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
>If I had a cellphone when I was a kid, taking the bus for the first time
would not have been so terrifying. //
Isn't it being "terrifying" and yet you having the gumption to do it what
builds your character and prepares you to take on things without having your
hand held? You were relying on your self - your skills, your organisation; and
not on your parents?
~~~
zimpenfish
"And now, little Jack, it's time to learn to swim. [throws child in pool]
C'mon, use your gumption! Stop drowning! And stop all that yelling. This is
building character!
Oh, he's drowned. Never mind! Better luck with little Fred!"
~~~
pbhjpbhj
There's a lot of variables and fine balance at play, for sure.
Riding the bus alone for the first time: IIRC I was 11, but in a small
village, I'd already ride a few miles from home on my push bike.
I wouldn't expect death as the most likely outcome of a public transit ride at
this sort of age.
There's no one size fits all approach to raising children.
------
thebaer
The problem isn't with devices or necessarily "screen time" but with the types
of software on these devices. Social media is just 21st century TV -- that's
why it's harmful. The platforms that are ad-driven and engineered to be
addictive don't help us _connect_ in the same meaningful ways we get offline.
So as you might restrict your kids' time watching TV, parents should be aware
of the amount of time kids spend on _interactive TV_. Phones are particularly
demonized because their omnipresence encourages more consumption, but really
they're just the physical manifestation of the individual problems starting
_inside_ the devices. (Aside: I'd really be curious to know the amount of time
people spend passively consuming information on social media vs. creating /
contributing.)
And as an industry I think it's important we find other business models. We
build these apps for "stickiness" and "engagement" \-- seemingly innocuous
metrics that ultimately accumulate to form these larger societal issues.
------
mirimir
OK, so I'm pretty old. I remember, as a child, assuming that misadventures
would be largely forgotten by adulthood. I did many crazy things, but there's
no record, except for whatever people remember. OK, maybe a few FBI files
buried somewhere in Washington ;)
But now? There's a record of everything. Starting before birth, in many cases.
First words from smart toys. Social media. Game sites. Sales portals. Files
saved by peers.
And of course, that plus the exacerbation of psychosocial craziness.
------
kardianos
Technology (apps, phones, news) is a tool.
If tech distracts from children forming attachment to parents and other people
in their lives, then there is a problem full stop. The problem isn't "screen
time" or even "tech" directly.
Children (or adults) who have poor attachment (disorganized, dismissive, or
just lacks practice), they will be at much greater risk.
------
Mz
Parents face a bit of a catch-22: Those that have kids young are not all that
grown up themselves. Those that have them later have trouble remembering what
it is like to be a kid. They each have their upsides and downsides. There is
no _perfect_ time to become a parent. But, I think older parents have
challenges they didn't expect because being a parent is not like your day job.
Even if you do daycare, you get to put it down at the end of the day. A child
is responsibility 24/7, even when they are at school or daycare. It is just
different in important ways from most other pursuits.
Plus, we don't really have an established culture for dealing with all this as
a parent. So much of our very widespread tech is too new for us to have some
established precedent to confidently draw upon.
------
hiisukun
When I was growing up, I used to read quite a lot. I wasn't allowed to bring
my book to the dinner table - no matter how suspenseful the chapter or how
fascinating the subject. Of course my childhood wasn't perfect; every night
wasn't a talkative social family dinner. I appreciated the rule even back
then, though I wanted to read my book it was easy to see that me doing so was
taking something away from the other people at the table. A little intangible,
but quite clear.
I can't help but wonder if in the many countries & cultures, and across many
generations, what various expectations there are for family time together, and
what challenges and barriers were in the way. "No lens polishing at the dinner
table!" might have been said to some young astronomer hundreds of years ago.
Mobile phones are a great source of information (something I've been
fascinated with my whole life), but sometimes seem to replace rather than
supplement social interactions. While I can see why people would want a "tech
free dinner", I've also had the joy of a "facetime dinner" with friend's
grandchildren who live far away. It was a wonderful and natural thing for the
child involved, because it added to the social harmony, rather than isolating
parts of it.
------
bronz
whenever i see parents struggling with issues like this, i wonder why everyone
wanders into parenthood without any forethought, any preparation. its so
frustrating to see people take their hands off the wheel and say "well, i have
no control over this situation. i hope my kid turns out ok." people have this
idea that you cant influence your kids. they send them to school where you
have 0% control over what they see and do.
parents do prepare when it comes to finances and having a crib, but its the
larger picture that is not considered in advance. nobody seems to look at how
kids are raised now and think "this is completely broken" and then make a plan
to deal with it. children are like any other animal, they need to be raised
deliberately. if you spoil a dog, and dont train it, what kind of dog do you
wind up with? what kind of people do you end up with when they are sucked into
ipads while still in a stroller, and they are sent to schools that are little
more than zoos being overseen by air-headed sorority girls? well, what a
coincidence, you end up with the poorly adjusted and frustrated kind of person
that seems to be more and more common these days. just because society says
that everyone has to use social media doesnt mean you have to let your kid use
social media. fuck society.
~~~
joshribakoff
> children are like any other animal
Yeah, raising kids is just like owning a gerbil. Exactly.
~~~
imchillyb
@joshribakoff, you're being disingenuous. You left out the important part of
that quote:
> they need to be raised deliberately. if you spoil a dog, and dont train it,
> what kind of dog do you wind up with? what kind of people do you end up with
> when they are sucked into ipads while still in a stroller, and they are sent
> to schools that are little more than zoos being overseen by air-headed
> sorority girls?
That is succinct, true, and a shame. A shame, just like your hand-picking out
a part of a sentence, in order to make the poster sound like an idiot is.
He omitted: in that, from his sentence. They are just like animals, in
that....
And if you were to be truthful with yourself, you'd admit he's eerily correct
in his observation.
~~~
joshribakoff
Disciplining a kid like they are a dog just feels like a marginal step up from
corporal punishment. Instead I believe in a more empathetic approach. I can
teach a kid why its dangerous to walk into the street, no so with a dog, which
can only learn via positive & negative associations, without understanding or
communicating the reason why. A gold fish can be trained to swim through a
hoop by giving a treat. A kid has more complex emotions & thought process.
Also discipline is not the only principle you want to teach a kid. What about
creativity? Self expression? If a 9 year old wants to write his own mine craft
mod, I don't care if he is on his ipad at dinner time. Cultural change is
inevitable why fight it. My parents gave me electronics kits, knex, lego
mindstorms, I was programming at 12yrs old. I grew up a productive member of
society. If your kids on their ipad too much maybe delete angry birds &
install a math/learning game instead.
~~~
jdietrich
>I can teach a kid why its dangerous to walk into the street
Children are neurologically incapable of understanding a large proportion of
the dangers they face. Toddlers simply can't understand the cause and effect
of "run into street -> get run over". Younger children who lack a fully
developed theory of mind can't understand the concept of lying. Younger
teenagers often attempt suicide as a means of seeking attention, without fully
understanding the finality of death. Older teenagers have a very limited
ability to reason about more abstract risk behaviours like distracted driving
or binge drinking.
Unless your child is extraordinarily precocious, some amount of "don't do that
or there'll be trouble" will inevitably be necessary. Hell, adults often
respond far better to simple conditioning than logical reasoning. Patiently
explaining the risks of smoking was far less effective than simply
stigmatising the behaviour. Everyone knows that they need to eat less and
exercise more, but that knowledge has done practically nothing to stem the
obesity epidemic. We can't expect children to understand that homework is a
necessary investment in their future when most adults don't save enough for
retirement.
Children need to be taught self-regulation, but it's unrealistic and unfair to
burden them with the full responsibility of disciplining themselves. Rules and
boundaries are a kindness, not a cruelty - they give children a safe space in
which to learn and develop.
~~~
joshribakoff
well I didn't ever like homework either. I failed classes because I was up all
night programming. I hated homework because I was hungrier to work on
something more interesting. Not because I didn't want to learn. I believe in
letting people follow their calling. For some that means not wearing a
seatbelt or becoming obese and that does not harm me. Toddlers is a different
story. If a toddler throws a temper tantrum I believe in comforting. With an
animal you'd lock it in a crate. I had behavior problems and the experts told
my parents to give me more access to technology instead of take it away. It
worked
~~~
bronz
there are things beneath the surface that must be set. the mind takes shape at
certain levels during certain ages. if they take an unfortunate shape, the
child will carry that burden with them forever. if you abuse a child, you can
make this happen. it is universally accepted that childhood abuse can cause
life long behavioral problems. what is not universally observed, however, is
that child abuse has a kind of opposite. you can mold a young mind into being
poorly adjusted and you can mold a young mind into being extraordinarily well
adjusted.
not everything in life is conscious. in many situations that are new or
ambiguous, a child will make a decision based on his or her disposition, his
or her feeling. a well adjusted child has feelings about things that will help
them. of course, those feelings and instincts dont guide all decisions, im not
saying that.
and here is where our opinions intersect: the reason to control and form a
child in their early development is because it provides a good foundation for
the next step, which is self motivated learning. no child can learn anything
unless they learn it themselves or if it is taught to them in an extreme way.
by extreme, i mean that you take your kid aside and look him in the eye and
you put on a face more serious and deadly than you have ever before and you
say to him in a low voice "crossing the street without looking is not
acceptable." those lessons should be few. what you want is to spark a chain
reaction of learning by first teaching the child how to learn and then
allowing them to build their knowledge on their own.
learning to learn comes naturally to some and not to others. being forced to
learn complicated things forces one to learn how to learn. usually people get
this in their twenties when they set a hard goal, like passing a chemistry or
physics class in college. i believe that this can be done deliberately by the
parent at a much earlier age.
so, my overall point is that a child must be raised deliberately.
------
KirinDave
I think maybe mobile tech is starting to go through it's 90's-era-
children's-tv-style "Oh my god nearly everything we've made is a manipulative
commercial designed to get an economic outcome without regard for the
consequences to the kids" moment.
And that's good. Because while kids are much more susceptible to the
attention-seeking games mobile app designers play, they are by no means
ineffective on adults.
------
NTDF9
My cousin has a no tv policy in his home. The parents do watch tv but not in
the presence of their 3 year old boy. They'd rather take the kid to play with
other kids or swimming.
This won't last, sure. But by the time the kid grows up to start making
demands, he'll hopefully already be more invested in his current activities
and find solace in swimming.
I really don't want kids around me growing up to become unsocialized video
game geniuses.
~~~
justadeveloper2
We got rid of cable tv years ago and tv watching dropped off sharply after
that. These days we barely turn it on, although the kids play XBox here and
there. The iPads they have are a nuisance, though. We excised the worst demon,
but Youtube has some pretty vapid crap, too. It's a process. I don't want to
entirely cut them off because they do learn from it here and there. It's a
tool, not a drug.
~~~
artur_makly
but they are clearly designed to be a drug.. under the guise of a tool:
[https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-
Produc...](https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-
Products/dp/1591847788)
[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/07/what-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/07/what-
youtube-reveals-about-the-toddler-mind/534765/?single_page=true)
------
nvarsj
I'm always struck by the arrogance of parents. It never changes through the
ages. Why do you think you know what's best for your kids? Do you really have
the insight and experience from a single lifetime's perspective to know what's
best for kids?
Especially striking are the programmers who grew up on technology. Literally
spent all day on a computer as a kid, and now have high paying jobs, and happy
lives. And then they say "no tech in the house!" \- like it is some bad thing.
It's almost like a cult, there is a striking lack of rationality. It's like
that protestant ethic - if it feels good, it must be bad.
I have two kids, and I do limit screen time to an extent. But I don't go and
brag like I know this is the best thing for them. I have very mixed feelings
about it. Certainly when my kids are teenagers, I think an attempt to control
them is just going to end up bad for everyone involved.
~~~
robertlagrant
No one is bragging. They are just talking. And the point isn't that no kid can
cope with massive exposure to technology, it's that now, all kids have access
to it. A kid from the 90s who grew up on it was probably pretty smart to be
able to access that stuff, and could potentially cope better with it than
another kid (although you can have very poor social development and still get
paid a lot, so the job thing doesn't really prove anything) - now, all kids
have access, if their parents let them.
I'm not saying it's bad, necessarily. I'm just concerned by the lack of logic
in a lot of these pro-technology responses.
------
squozzer
I dunno -- part of the problem might be that we older people have notions of
how childhood should be. Entire industries are built around it. And we eagerly
declare an emergency when kids decide to stray from the notional path.
But maybe a little experience will enlighten (maybe.) I recall some 30-odd
years ago how much more fun D&D would be if all of the paper, die-rolling,
etc. were automated. This was sometime between the Atari 2600 and Commodore
64. I got my wish, obviously, and then some.
And it seemed old-fashioned ways of gaming would forever be consigned to
history's dustbin.
Only it didn't happen that way. Dice and tabletops are still around, maybe
more popular than in my day.
So I for one will not surrender to despair, or go blue-nose against modern
tech "for the children." Maybe we should just go with the flow.
------
noonespecial
I think the opposite. Every one of the effects (and more) that she decided
happened too early before her kids were "emotionally ready", the high school
experience smashed down on me like a meteor strike.
A link to my tribe in my pocket making me feel even a bit less than a complete
outsider would have been a godsend.
Bbs's saved my ass while my parents fretted that "all that time on the
computer doing god knows what" would ruin me for life so what do I know?
------
pnathan
Politely, this is not a new problem. Nor is it untypical for the upper crust
to have issues with their kids, if myths and tales from earlier times are to
be believed.
I can confidently say that screen addiction is kind of a _thing_ for many
kids. They can't bear to be without it. I notice my baby _stares_ at the
glowing screens, the phones, the computers. He also stares at fires.
Brightness is attractive, apparently.
But something my wife and I are very set about: Mr. Baby will have to be able
to bear being without a phone. Not that we'll be hovering or super limiting,
but we expect Mr. Baby to be able to psychologically handle not having a phone
glued to himself at all waking hours, and we will adjust our own phone usage
if it becomes apparent _we_ have issues.
Most entertainment and many non-entertainment phone apps are designed to be
attention-grabbing machines, and that's worrisome. Kids don't have that armor
to be able to drop out into a focus world. It is a very _hot_ media, by
McLuhan's classification, and I think that's worrisome.
Anyway. Unexpected effects happen, we're spinning faster than we ever have,
and we have to ride the wave.
~~~
l33tbro
The lack of awe is what surprises me. Just how quickly we take each
breakthrough for granted.
Sure, we're spinning faster and faster, as you say. But sometimes I think it's
actually the FOMO mechanism built into social media that is keeping us
unimpressed by the amazing technology powering it. Kind of a cruel joke
really.
~~~
pnathan
> The lack of awe is what surprises me. Just how quickly we take each
> breakthrough for granted.
That's just your perspective and the people you deal with. Many people I know
over 40 are amazed. Perspective....
A lot of the technology is respun other technology, and that does take the
luster off.
Personally I think a lot of the social media stuff is bunk, particularly the
bits that prioritize zero-content fluff. But things like Mastodon, Hacker
News, or Wordpress (remember twitter was _microblogging_ ) have spawned deep
and thoughtful engagement with the world and others.
------
artur_makly
Amen. Im glad im not the only one freaking out about this.
a few weeks ago i posted to HN asking for parental advice:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14924520](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14924520)
i mostly got "aahh dont worry about it. you are being hysterical" ... i see it
all around me (even in 2nd world countries like Argentina - where im an expat
).
Its quickly deteriorating the fabric of our society. When I see families go
out together for dinner ( 90% of them are ALL on their phones ) .. Single
fathers with their sons.. both on phones.. At a singles-night at a bar.. all
on phones instagramming hard.
Their little brains are being hardwired to the digital COCA-COLA..and when the
water comes around they look at you like "why drink that shit?!"
When he grows up.. no laptop at school for him:
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-
secret...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-
take-notes-with-a-laptop/)
in fact our family is seriously thinking of moving to Patagonia, just to re-
calibrate with natural wavelengths.
~~~
hycaria
When and how do one come to think that it is a good thing to let kids watch YT
videos ? I used to wonder this but I think now I know why.
I barely watch any myself so I really don't get the hype people seem to have
for videos. But my boyfriend watches more YT than I do, and follows channels I
don't get the point of. That's actually the moment I realized my disinterest
for browsing channels and watching videos was maybe not so common after all.
Also, what's the problem with banning it altogether ? I don't see one, other
than the disapointment that compromise didn't work. But of course a 5yo can't
have the self control some people never even reach during their lifetimes
anyways.
------
graphitezepp
I think it's (it being the socially damaging effects of persistent internet
access) is going to get way worse before it gets better. Rising depression
rates in youth are happening, but nobody is even talking about this on the
'mainstream', it's just not openly visible yet. Meanwhile the Google's and
Facebook's algorithms keep getting more finely tuned . . .
~~~
triangleman
No worries man, Google is going to diagnose your depression and all but
prescribe your Prozac.
------
artursapek
For people like me who think smart phones ruin everything, I suggest looking
into Waldorf education for your kids. Smart phones are banned at the school
(until high school) and screen-oriented media (phones, TV, movies) are
strongly discouraged outside of school. In my opinion the system attracts
really interesting adults and kids who still know how to enjoy life the old
fashioned way.
~~~
mulmen
I wonder about the efficacy of banning the devices entirely until a certain
point. Is that all that is done or is an attempt made to teach children how to
responsibly use the devices so they don't gorge themselves when the ban is
lifted?
~~~
artursapek
There is an attempt and they are conscious of the fact that outright bans
never work. It's more about preventing media from influencing the childrens'
development, especially early on.
~~~
mulmen
That's great then. As adults were are left to our own devices to figure out
how to use new technology. Giving children those mechanisms will serve them
well long-term.
------
drdeadringer
> I probably would have waited longer before putting a computer in my
> children’s pockets
A part of me wonders how this consideration might stunt the child for "the
near future to come" in a societal context.
Sure, we could want our children to have similar experiences to our own.
However, technology and at least in part related society advances increase at
ever faster speeds. My grandfather could get a job by walking down the street
and saying "hello" to a shopkeeper. Me? Not going to happen; "apply online"
and maybe I'll get an automated, maybe even kind, rejection email about
"skills" or "fit". My children? Some AI could automatically filter them in or
out of internships and the like. What could a totally blank ghost town of
lifetime data prior to 5, 10, or 15 years old do to someone in a completely,
totally, all-encompassing digital age? Nevermind what this would mean for
somebody running for political office.
------
foodshin
While I do appreciate how much is at my fingertips with my phone I also
acknowledge how it can insidiously develop unnecessary habits–random home
button tapping anyone? Reminds me of this article:
[https://theroamingmind.com/2017/03/06/social-media-is-the-
ne...](https://theroamingmind.com/2017/03/06/social-media-is-the-new-smoking/)
I also don't want to be quick in demonizing specific apps or companies. I have
power over my notification settings which have a huge effect on usage
patterns. I've been using Moment
([https://inthemoment.io/](https://inthemoment.io/)) to help get quick
snapshots at my utilization rates.
*Edit: grammar
------
spacemanmatt
I grew up glued to screens since I was 11. My parents hated it, but my hobby
became my career and I became a confident and social individual despite my
constant interest in computers.
Now, I serve dinner in front of a movie/TV sometimes, and don't police my
kids' phone usage at the table. I do police other behavior, and checking out
in the presence of others isn't acceptable. They try to become little addicts
(they're young) but the pressure to engage locally wins often enough. If
there's nothing to talk about, I don't mind if they get online. It generally
takes all day to exhaust our conversations like that, though.
------
flatline
> I spent my career at Microsoft trying to imagine what technology could do,
> and still I wasn’t prepared for smartphones and social media
There is a certain irony in her opening statement regarding Microsoft's lack
of vision in these two spaces. I think there a have been some unforeseen
consequences of these but even when I was a teen, kids would spend hours each
day on the phone, or on the computer playing games - some even online - or
watching TV. I feel like the fundamental interpersonal dynamic really hasn't
changed that much, and I say this as a parent of young kids and a friend of
lots of parents with teenagers.
------
gthtjtkt
One of the things I'm most thankful for is the fact that I grew up before cell
phones were ubiquitous. And I honestly feel awful for children today, because
they're all the unwitting subjects of a cruel experiment: What happens when
you give people access to _everything_ from birth?
Knowing how much self-control it takes for me to resist social media, Reddit,
games, etc. I can't even imagine what it's like for children. Many of them are
probably being ruined by smartphones, but we won't realize until it's too
late, like the kids in China who are all myopic because they spent too much
time indoors.
------
taurath
Its slightly ironic to me because I went much more to technology than my peers
growing up because I had depression and social problems, not the other way
around.
I think technology being so mainstream now means that the popular kids can now
have a lot more online points (followers, likes, etc) just like in real life.
Stuff happening on a screen is very frequently a lot more interesting than
whats going on in a suburb - besides, you can't get social likes/currency if
you're not online.
------
alexashka
I've found that the more competent and as a result confident the parents, the
less they micro-manage their kids.
They don't feel the need to send them to private schools, have them be A
students, get into universities, spend less time on their phone etc etc etc.
That's just insecure, overbearing parents.
There's some subtle irony in the same person who is part of a foundation
saving kids in Africa, worrying about phone use. You'd think she'd have a
greater perspective on these things.
------
peterburkimsher
"eighth-graders who use social media more than 10 hours a week are 56 percent
more likely to say they’re unhappy than peers who use it less"
But is that a causal relationship? Are people unhappy first, so they therefore
go on Facebook to seek help? Does taking away that escape route make it worse?
Correlation does not imply causation.
------
bllguo
The thing is that technology can have an _incredibly positive_ benefit on a
kid's life if done right. People espousing schools banning screens and limited
screen time strike me as people attached to the status quo. We need to adapt
and learn how to raise children around technology.
------
artur_makly
[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/07/what-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/07/what-
youtube-reveals-about-the-toddler-mind/534765/)
------
artur_makly
i think this Android app will do the trick for kids under 15:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zerodeskto...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zerodesktop.appdetox.qualitytime&hl=en)
and this one for IOS: TeenSafe [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/teensafe-
parental-control/id...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/teensafe-parental-
control/id1066075344?mt=8)
------
simplexion
How does a child having a computer exclude them from learning empathy? Do
teenagers that are more likely to be depressed use social media more?
There are so many problems with this article.
------
j_s
I don't think it was tech specifically as much as the _love of_ tech.
I appreciate the reminder to be mindful for my own family's sake!
------
jknz
1B startup idea: equip every primary/secondary/high schools with walls that
block every cellular signals.
------
dharma1
two kids, 2 and 7. They have a hard time having dinner without watching
something on iPad. Otherwise the 2 year old doesn't use technology aside from
TV, 7 year old has 1 hour of iPad time most days.
I like to give them some exposure to tech but much of it so addictive, makes
me think how it must affect reward pathways in a maturing brain
------
fullshark
I agree with the sentiment of this, but this is pretty light.
------
justadeveloper2
Technology does not care about human values.
~~~
mulmen
How can this be true? Technology is created exclusively by people. Our values
are baked in.
Filesystems have a concept of ownership, ask your dog what that means.
~~~
dionidium
I think it's more accurate to say that technology _reveals_ the edges and
contours of our values.
~~~
mulmen
That's a good way of stating it actually, something to think about.
------
jansho
_" The most important thing we've learned,
So far as children are concerned,
Is never, NEVER, NEVER let
Them near your television set --
Or better still, just don't install
The idiotic thing at all.
In almost every house we've been,
We've watched them gaping at the screen.
They loll and slop and lounge about,
And stare until their eyes pop out.
(Last week in someone's place we saw
A dozen eyeballs on the floor.)
They sit and stare and stare and sit
Until they're hypnotised by it,
Until they're absolutely drunk
With all that shocking ghastly junk.
Oh yes, we know it keeps them still,
They don't climb out the window sill,
They never fight or kick or punch,
They leave you free to cook the lunch
And wash the dishes in the sink --
But did you ever stop to think,
To wonder just exactly what
This does to your beloved tot?
IT ROTS THE SENSE IN THE HEAD!
IT KILLS IMAGINATION DEAD!
IT CLOGS AND CLUTTERS UP THE MIND!
IT MAKES A CHILD SO DULL AND BLIND
HE CAN NO LONGER UNDERSTAND
A FANTASY, A FAIRYLAND!
HIS BRAIN BECOMES AS SOFT AS CHEESE!
HIS POWERS OF THINKING RUST AND FREEZE!
HE CANNOT THINK -- HE ONLY SEES!
'All right!' you'll cry. 'All right!' you'll say,
'But if we take the set away,
What shall we do to entertain
Our darling children? Please explain!'
We'll answer this by asking you,
'What used the darling ones to do?
'How used they keep themselves contented
Before this monster was invented?'
Have you forgotten? Don't you know?
We'll say it very loud and slow:
THEY ... USED ... TO ... READ! They'd READ and READ,
AND READ and READ, and then proceed
To READ some more. Great Scott! Gadzooks!
One half their lives was reading books!
The nursery shelves held books galore!
Books cluttered up the nursery floor!
And in the bedroom, by the bed,
More books were waiting to be read!
Such wondrous, fine, fantastic tales
Of dragons, gypsies, queens, and whales
And treasure isles, and distant shores
Where smugglers rowed with muffled oars,
And pirates wearing purple pants,
And sailing ships and elephants,
And cannibals crouching 'round the pot,
Stirring away at something hot.
(It smells so good, what can it be?
Good gracious, it's Penelope.)
The younger ones had Beatrix Potter
With Mr. Tod, the dirty rotter,
And Squirrel Nutkin, Pigling Bland,
And Mrs. Tiggy-Winkle and-
Just How The Camel Got His Hump,
And How the Monkey Lost His Rump,
And Mr. Toad, and bless my soul,
There's Mr. Rat and Mr. Mole-
Oh, books, what books they used to know,
Those children living long ago!
So please, oh please, we beg, we pray,
Go throw your TV set away,
And in its place you can install
A lovely bookshelf on the wall.
Then fill the shelves with lots of books,
Ignoring all the dirty looks,
The screams and yells, the bites and kicks,
And children hitting you with sticks-
Fear not, because we promise you
That, in about a week or two
Of having nothing else to do,
They'll now begin to feel the need
Of having something to read.
And once they start -- oh boy, oh boy!
You watch the slowly growing joy
That fills their hearts. They'll grow so keen
They'll wonder what they'd ever seen
In that ridiculous machine,
That nauseating, foul, unclean,
Repulsive television screen!
And later, each and every kid
Will love you more for what you did."_
\--
Roald Dahl died in 1990, I wonder what he would think about smartphones :)
------
untilHellbanned
virtue signaling
------
hondo77
Billionaire tells us how we should be living our lives. How fortunate we are.
~~~
contingencies
Wife of billionaire with a track record of 100% failed ventures in mobile
tells us all about mobile.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Robinhood gets almost half its revenue selling orders to high-frequency traders - gadders
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/robinhood-gets-almost-half-its-revenue-in-controversial-bargain-with-high-speed-traders
======
icebraining
Dupe:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18223972](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18223972)
~~~
nannal
Dupe:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17956740](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17956740)
~~~
gadders
My bad. Sorry.
------
jhabdas
Robinhood locked me out of my own account because I was "traveling too long";
demanded I show them proof of US residence (my verified Chase Bank account and
US passport aren't good enough). I'm not surprised their hurting the little
guy.
~~~
icebraining
I don't see the relationship...? Those documents prove US citizenship, not US
residence; seems reasonable to ask, especially if it's a legal requirement,
which I wouldn't be surprised (it's not like they benefit from losing non-
resident customers).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The employment green card backlog tops 800k. A solution is elusive - nafizh
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-employment-green-card-backlog-tops-800000-most-of-them-indian-a-solution-is-elusive/2019/12/17/55def1da-072f-11ea-8292-c46ee8cb3dce_story.html
======
president
Has anyone ever considered that maybe we should be preventing the backlog from
growing that large in the first place?
~~~
nafizh
As far as I understood, a large reason for the backlog is the H1B visa abuse
from Indian companies.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Solo – App for sharing loneliness and aloneness - wtsui
http://www.sharesolo.com
======
cyberferret
As an INFP persona who has worked remotely and solo for many years, I'd like
to break the stigma that "alone = bad". I find it incredibly energising a lot
of the time, but then there _are_ the odd times when I crave a little human
social engagement.
Traditional social media channels have devolved into a cesspit of noisy
pollution, but I tend to occasionally post right here on HN, guitar forums, or
even on obscure Reddit threads just to hear the rare "Thanks", or "Wow, that
was something useful".
I guess while I don't find loneliness a depressing thing, I just want to feel
as if I am heard or making a difference to the world every now and then.
~~~
DeusExMachina
Tangentially, since you mention INFP.
It seems to me that the Myers-Briggs test is becoming mainstream. I see people
mention these personality codes more and more.
But the test seems to have no scientific validity:
[http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/Articles/develop/mbti.pdf](http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/Articles/develop/mbti.pdf)
~~~
Jach
I don't think it's becoming more prevalent in the last 10 years, at least no
more than mentioning your birth sign... But anyway (take with a grain of salt)
the last time I looked at M-B it seemed that although there's no reason to
take it very seriously scientifically, nevertheless it correlates surprisingly
well with one of the psychology crown jewels, the Big 5, and misses out only
on testing for neuroticism.
~~~
gvx
My personal problems with M-B are
1) I have trouble understanding the significance all of the axes except for
introversion/extroversion. For example, what is the concrete difference
between INFP and INFJ?
2) The results of MBTI tests seem to vary wildly (at least for me), both
between different tests at the same time, or within the same test when I take
it at different times. I don't know if I have any consistent MBTI value other
than that I lean towards introversion most of the time.
But if someone can link me to a good explanation of the different axes and/or
recommend an MBTI test that isn't bullshit, I'd be grateful.
~~~
Jach
Found some references again.. INFP and INFJ would mostly differ in
Conscientiousness (the J being more so). Extraversion-Introversion correlates
with Big 5 Extraversion (on the E pole), Thinking-Feeling with Agreeableness
(F pole), Sensing-iNtuition with Openness to Experience (N pole), Judging-
Perceiving with Conscientiousness (J pole).
([http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.555...](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.555.3131&rep=rep1&type=pdf))
If you're on a boundary you might get more insight from breaking the Big 5
into the 10 aspects
([https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17983306](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17983306)),
e.g. Conscientiousness can be split into Orderliness and Industriousness. You
also might benefit from having someone close you think models you well (if
available, this is the loneliness thread...) answer the test questions for you
to see what they get, or perhaps as effective you answer for yourself and also
for someone else you think you have a good model of to help highlight
differences in degree.
Lastly since MBTI tests are still sketchy, go for a Big 5 test, read about the
Big 5 (my first link has some useful descriptors), and forget about MB. For
free,
[http://www.personal.psu.edu/%7Ej5j/IPIP/](http://www.personal.psu.edu/%7Ej5j/IPIP/)
exists and is the longest one I've seen. I've read that
[https://work.coach/assessment](https://work.coach/assessment) is useful. The
only paid one I've heard about recently is the rather steep
[https://www.understandmyself.com/personality-
assessment](https://www.understandmyself.com/personality-assessment) but I
suspect like IQ tests paid might give the most utility... (I'm not part of the
JBP fanclub but do listen in on him sometimes, so again grain of salt...)
------
djsumdog
I like how it's all in the browser. I'm sick everything requiring an app
download. Still, you should be able to just use it from the Desktop. Why force
people?
Also, why do you need access to my microphone? I really want to post
something. I am alone this holiday. But I don't want to give you access to my
microphone. Why do you need it? It just looks like text and photos. If I deny
access, I can't do anything.
~~~
ekr
Use an user agent switcher the get around the mobile-only restriction.
~~~
rayalez
You can also just open dev tools and turn on mobile mode.
------
seawlf
This site has an exposed Git directory, so you can clone the whole thing.
Funnily enough, it appears to be actually talking to a MySQL database.
[http://sharesolo.com/get_notes.php](http://sharesolo.com/get_notes.php)
Also, all of the credentials are there. I won't post them, but lordy, please
close this before your database is wiped.
~~~
tomcooks
Bravo for pointing that out! Care to explain how you discovered this? Making
such security mistakes is what my nightmares are made of
~~~
aw3c2
Probably tried to access
[http://sharesolo.com/.git/](http://sharesolo.com/.git/) for the repo and
looked at the network traffic to see the get_notes.php.
------
addict3d
What people do alone is very interesting and this site does a really good job
at capturing that. HN is a place of very constructive and brutal criticism, so
you will probably be disciplined on what it should do or what's wrong with it.
But in my eyes this is a really interesting piece of art and social media that
people like me really appreciate. Keep up the excellent work!
~~~
soneca
HN has always supported and cared about loneliness for all the time I've being
here. I expect nothing but encouragement and helpful advice in this thread.
~~~
addict3d
But at the same time we're engineers with pessimistic minds focussed on
failure and monetization so I sadly expect different.
------
ajeet_dhaliwal
Going viral with this particular market might be tough :-)
Jokes aside loneliness is a big deal and I enjoy reading about it but as some
other comments mention there is a confusing conflation of ‘being alone’ and
loneliness here. Some posts are describing doing something alone (in a
positive way) and others are talking about loneliness (negative). Are you
actually targeting both?
------
doctorstupid
"Solo connects us in these moments when we are most authentic to ourselves"
If we were authentic to ourselves we wouldn't need to share experiences. We
wouldn't need an audience to authenticate them if we valued ourselves as
worthy witnesses.
~~~
jesperlang
> If we were authentic to ourselves we wouldn't need to share experiences
And sometimes, the experience is _already_ shared with other people!
~~~
doctorstupid
Very true. When friends fetch their smartphones to 'capture' the moment I
suddenly feel lonely, getting the feeling that we no longer value our own
memory, that only what can be digitally shared and verified is real. So we end
up talking to the digital middleman whilst failing to remember the 'shared'
moment.
------
kenning
My pessimistic prediction is that this will either die or be overrun with the
alt-right. They seem to gravitate towards the more anonymous social networks
(4chan, yik yak). Also see "unpopular opinion puffin" memes on reddit -- a
(now dead) meme format designed for people to share what they're afraid to say
out loud to their peers, and quickly became a hub for alt-righty opinions on
social issues.
~~~
nihilum
Anonymity also permitted the American Revolution, among other things.
Meanwhile the most prominent example that comes to mind for attempts to end
even the pretense of anonymity online is authoritarian China.
And fwiw, most of the other boards on 4chan at least tend to push the more
obnoxious sorts of commentary back to /pol/, its 'containment board'.
Twitter likewise tends to isolate communities of extremists, on both sides,
simply by virtue of explicit blocking or mere lack of sufficient interest to
follow on the part of more balanced participants.
~~~
pwaai
> Anonymity also permitted the American Revolution, among other things.
Not sure what that has to do with anything.
> Meanwhile the most prominent example that comes to mind for attempts to end
> even the pretense of anonymity online is authoritarian China.
South Korea forces people to use their social insurance number to sign up to
forums and commenting on social media. Again, not sure why you are using
China, they aren't the only ones trying to deanonymize online.
> And fwiw, most of the other boards on 4chan at least tend to push the more
> obnoxious sorts of commentary back to /pol/, its 'containment board'.
What the parent is referring to is that _online_ anonymous platforms attracts
toxic trolls that overtake a platform, even with the moderation you mentioned.
When people hide behind a faceless mask, it brings out the worst in people,
simply because of the dopamine release from inflicting pain on others to feel
good about their otherwise miserable life.
> Twitter likewise tends to isolate communities of extremists, on both sides,
> simply by virtue of explicit blocking or mere lack of sufficient interest to
> follow on the part of more balanced participants.
Twitter hasn't done a great job, it's overrun by bots with political agendas,
people are mob attacked and it's a poor case to support your assertion that
anonymous somehow works even against the mounting evidence against it.
------
kowdermeister
If this is a web app, why can't is use it from my desktop browser?
~~~
wtsui
Built mobile first so people could share experiences on the go, but desktop
version is planned.
~~~
jonathankoren
Why does the desktop experience have to be different? It's the web. If you're
building for a browser, you failed.
------
cstigler
Reminds me of this famous forum thread, composed of people who Googled "I am
lonely" and found themselves routed to a movie codec site via impressive SEO.
[https://www.salon.com/2014/11/19/i_am_lonely_will_anyone_spe...](https://www.salon.com/2014/11/19/i_am_lonely_will_anyone_speak_to_me_inside_the_saddest_thread_on_the_internet_ten_years_later/)
~~~
sattoshi
Is there no archive of that thread? archive.org got nothing, archive.is got
only the first page..
The forum went down in 2016, where are the archives?
------
Sytten
Not sure if this is terribly awesome or immensely sad
~~~
wtsui
Thanks for the feedback.
I created this project because I know many people who struggled with
loneliness at times in their lives.
My hope is that by sharing this experience we’ll feel a sense of connection
when we’re alone, and find more acceptance of ourselves and our aloneness,
however happy, peaceful, or sad.
~~~
QAPereo
Maybe, although generally when you fill a room with sick people, they don’t
make each other well. Group therapy can work, but it takes the guidance of
people not currently looking up from a hole.
~~~
IncRnd
> _Maybe, although generally when you fill a room with sick people, they don’t
> make each other well. Group therapy can work, but it takes the guidance of
> people not currently looking up from a hole._
Being alone is not a sickness. The site, when viewed on mobile even without an
app, shows the first entry as someone who climbed a mountain when alone.
Another learned about the three poisons, and yet a third chose to read a
series of books.
------
hrasyid
maybe it's a silly question. When I opened it from desktop it tells me to go
to my phone, and then I open it from my phone, and then it shows me this
mobile web app (not a native app). What's the point of telling me to open from
my phone if it's only a web app anyway?
------
tehabe
I remember that there was an anonymous social network a while ago. The
screenshots for this service look similar. Maybe someone got nostalgic for
that long lost application.
Edit: I think that was "Secret", it shut down in 2015.
------
dannyr
Props for continuing the project.
Here's the original post from July 2014:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7985932](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7985932)
------
anonytrary
As someone who is alone, yes, I get lonely. Everyone who wants for more gets
lonely, and it isn't necessarily a compliment -- it applies to idiots as well
as geniuses and everyone in between.
------
ziqiaojin
Just curious are you aware of a quite similar Chinese app which have been
running some time? it is called "BaoBao"
------
calebm
Couldn't help thinking of this:
"If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, you're not alone. And yet
you are alone. So very alone."
([https://despair.com/products/loneliness](https://despair.com/products/loneliness))
~~~
calebm
Joking aside, it seems like a great idea for an app.
------
jeswin
I am not alone any longer, so I don't think I can legitimately post on the
site.
But I love the app and that it is just a plain web app. No play store or app
store, and no nagging data collection. I hope this is the future of apps.
------
krotton
It's pretty moving. I just wonder what the dynamics may be when this gains
traction. I guess it could make you feel ever more lonely when you get down to
posting something and nobody reacts in any way.
------
sattoshi
There is an easily-fixable bug that breaks it on Firefox,
Change `$('#cameraInput').change(function (e) {` to
`$('#cameraInput').change(function (event) {`
------
mr_spothawk
This reminds me of Secret. I wish that I'd seen this before I messed around
with Secret, I'd be more inclined to share some tidbits.
------
Froyoh
Can you cut the "like" system? In some ways it contributes to the problem we
see with people on most social media.
------
freeloop3
It's even lonelier when you post to a site intended for people who are alone
and your post is silently rejected.
------
rdiddly
Ironic that Facebook is not doing this job!
~~~
djsumdog
How could it? No one trusts it. It is literally impossible for Facebook to
ever provide an anonymous service of any kind, because they will always be
able to implement some algorithm to at least try and associate you with your
real identity.
~~~
rdiddly
Yeah obviously what I'm portraying as irony is really just the contrast
between Facebook's marketing itself as a wonderful new way to "connect" and
"share," and the actual truth that it's a surveillance machine.
------
JensRantil
Tried searching for the app in Google Store. Does the app exist for Android?
~~~
progval
It's a website, not an app. You have to access
[http://sharesolo.com/](http://sharesolo.com/) from your phone.
------
sattoshi
The relevance of this on the Holiday season is tragic.
------
pat_space
Awesome. I wish Instagram was still this way.
------
Void_
Okay I get it that people are lonely, but this app is nuts. I would understand
network like that for diabetics. Being lonely is not a sickness.
Seriously this crowd acts like everything is a sickness. You have ADHD because
you can’t focus for 5 minutes straight, but you don’t think of deleting
facebook from your app first, see if that works.
Same here. I’m-so-lonely, boo hoo go out and make some friends! Did we really
become so passive?
Don’t you think it would be better to sign up for a boxing class and meet some
people as opposed to making an app about how sad you are?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
BPG Image format - mjs
http://bellard.org/bpg/
======
pslam
The big story here is this introduces a new image file format _without
requiring you to upgrade a browser or download a plugin_. Those aren't PNGs of
representative images you're looking at - that's BPG decoding happening in
your browser.
So we don't like HVEC due to patent worries? Fine, we can swap in another
format and use the same technique.
We don't have an I-frame format for Daala that's finalized yet? Fine, we can
use work-in-progress. The format _does not need to be finalized_. If you
update it, you rebuild your images and bundle a new JavaScript decoder.
The ability to ship media along with a sandboxed, runnable decoder is awesome,
and I'm surprised it hasn't caught on until now. I remember Google a while
back implemented their own "video" codec in JavaScript using JPEGs and
primitive inter-frame processing, exactly because there wasn't a universal
video codec format they could use.
~~~
akshatpradhan
If you want Designers to start using this, then we need a photoshop plugin, an
illustrator plugin, a Sketch plugin, a pixelmator plugin. Make it easier for
us to export images as a .BGP. If the images are truly smaller without
affecting the current user experience of users using mostly modern web
browsers, then we're more likely to pick up on using this.
~~~
woah
This can all be handled by Gulp or Grunt and designers won't have to worry
about it if someone on the team can code.
~~~
akshatpradhan
What if I use this: [http://getbootstrap.com/examples/starter-
template/](http://getbootstrap.com/examples/starter-template/) and add an img
tag with a src to a .bgp? Will it render when I refresh the browser? I see
that the BPG images are decoded in your browser with a small Javascript
decoder. So a JS file is referenced in the HTML, and everything will run ok
when I refresh? That's the promise?
~~~
178
Yes.
------
mark-r
I was ready to pass by this post with a yawn until I saw where it was coming
from: Fabrice Bellard. He's no doubt an absolute freakin' genius. And if
anybody knows about image conversion, it's him.
Even the things he does just for fun are impressive. Have you ever booted up
Linux inside your browser?
[http://bellard.org/jslinux/](http://bellard.org/jslinux/)
~~~
pervycreeper
>I was ready to pass by this post with a yawn until I saw where it was coming
from
Would this have been less interesting or valuable if it hadn't been made by a
hacker celebrity?
~~~
mark-r
New file format proposals generally aren't news, unless they're already
implemented in some popular product. Finding out the latest amazing thing that
Fabrice Bellard has been working on, that's news. And that it's already
implemented in your browser via Javascript? Priceless.
------
anigbrowl
EDIT: I didn't expect this comment to be so popular and feel like I've
hijacked the thread a little - sorry. Feel free to continue at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706850](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706850)
I would much rather someone revived the Fractal Image format, which is now out
of patent. It's very expensive to encode, but that's nowhere near as big a
problem as it used to be. It's very fast to decode, very small, and the files
are resolution independent:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_compression](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_compression)
I was blown away when I encountered it at PC Magazine in the 90s and it seems
like it would be very responsive to the needs of today's web.
~~~
bane
[http://www.verrando.com/pulcini/gp-
uw1.html](http://www.verrando.com/pulcini/gp-uw1.html)
They have a 6-minute figure on their page. I wonder what modern hardware could
do with it? Anybody care to give it a whirl?
~~~
ChrisGranger
I wonder how much that figure would drop if one could optimize the process for
modern CPUs...
~~~
tachyonbeam
Even without optimizations. That page is from 1997. They probably ran this on
a 200MHz machine at best. Modern CPUs are 30-50x faster just in terms of
instructions per second. Then once you factor in multiple cores, we have
desktop machines that are easily 100x faster.
In terms of optimizations we have SIMD and GPGPUs to make it even faster. Not
unrealistic to think we could bring that 6 minute figure down to one second...
And then, of course, there might be algorithmic tweaks that help us even more.
Get 100 people looking at that code, and for sure they'd find ways to speed it
up.
~~~
Intermernet
In the same magazine there is an ad for a $3795 Gateway 2000 workstation.
486DX2 66MHz, 8MB RAM, 500MB SCSI HDD, SVGA graphics with 1MB RAM, 14" CRT.
I remember looking at systems like that and drooling. Now the latest CPUs have
8MB L3 cache.
~~~
tachyonbeam
Theres 8-core i7s with 20MB L3 cache now.
------
justinmayer
After making a few needed tweaks to get libbpg to compile on Mac OS X, I used
the compiled bpgenc binary to convert a test PNG to BPG format. I also
converted the PNG to a JPEG for comparison purposes. You can see the results
here:
[http://justinmayer.com/bpg-test/](http://justinmayer.com/bpg-test/)
Size of PNG before conversion: 186K
Size after conversion to JPEG: 52K
Size after conversion to BPG: 9K
I took the liberty of submitting a Homebrew formula, so hopefully this will
soon be a quick "brew install libbpg" away. (^_^)
[https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/pull/34722](https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/pull/34722)
~~~
ChrisFoster
I think your page has a bug - the "original png" seems to be encoded in jpg!
(The usual jpg artifacts are very visible around the edges.) Thanks for
posting the extra example, the bgp looks very good indeed.
~~~
justinmayer
I believe that's because PageSpeed is automatically converting the PNG to JPEG
on-the-fly before serving the image to the browser, ostensibly for speed
reasons. How ironic. ;^)
------
ChrisGranger
Looking at the Lena pictures demo, the extremely low file size comparison at
the top shows just how good .bpg is in that use case. That could make for some
much lighter websites when used for less important items like image thumbnails
on shopping sites, for example.
When the file size gets larger at the end, it looks like there might be a
little loss of detail. Ideally I'd like to compare them by switching back and
forth using the original image and the .bpg as Photoshop layers...
~~~
akavel
PrintScreen should let you do it, I suppose?
------
pdknsk
I notice the container has no ICC profile support. Trivial do add as an
extension tag, but should definitely be in the first spec IMO. And if I read
this correctly, extension tags are hardcoded as numbers, rather than using a
tag name. I don't think that's a good idea.
~~~
panic
Is there a situation where 14-bit sRGB isn't enough? There are a lot of weird
color matching issues on the web caused by inconsistent application of ICC
profiles to PNG images by different browsers / platforms.
~~~
oofabz
Storing HDR images, where the brightest parts are greater than 1.0. That way,
when you later edit the image and adjust the levels, new detail comes into
view. OpenEXR is the best we have for this now. It uses half-precision 16-bit
floating point color components.
------
jason_slack
No doubt Fabrice is very smart. I read about his 4G base station the other
day. I'd love to be a fly on the wall while he codes and thinks out these
projects.
His accomplishments are impressive: QEMU, FFMPEG, TCC, JSLinux, the list goes
on
------
ChuckMcM
Is there anything this guy can't do? Seriously.
I have been wishing there was a JPEG equivalent with an alpha channel for like
forever. That allows better compositing to arbitrary background images or
patterns. Now the question is how long before browsers _might_ support it
natively.
~~~
SeyelentEco
Webp is has lossless and lossy support, and alpha channel. It's also much
smaller than JPG and much better looking for small JPGs (like this one).
It's also supported natively on all newish (4.0+) Android devices and Chrome.
~~~
threeseed
Unfortunately given the relationship between Google and Apple and also between
Web* and H.26* there is little chance of it going anywhere since without iOS
you have nothing.
------
jason_slack
There was an interesting article about Fabrice:
[http://blog.smartbear.com/careers/fabrice-bellard-
portrait-o...](http://blog.smartbear.com/careers/fabrice-bellard-portrait-of-
a-super-productive-programmer/)
Does anyone know if he has a day job or does he just lock himself away and
work on these interesting projects?
~~~
paraboul
As far as I know :
[http://www.amarisoft.com/?p=about](http://www.amarisoft.com/?p=about)
------
userbinator
_Its purpose is to replace the JPEG image format when quality or file size is
an issue._
_Some of the HEVC algorithms may be protected by patents in some countries_
There have been some patent disputes over JPEG, but I don't think replacing it
with another possibly patented format is a good idea, even if it's technically
superior in some ways.
~~~
reidrac
"Most devices already include or will include hardware HEVC support, so we
suggest to use it if patents are an issue."
I don't know if that suggestion makes much sense, but you missed it in your
quote.
~~~
sp332
What kinds of devices have hardware HEVC acceleration? Phones, PC graphics
cards, Blu-ray players?
~~~
WhitneyLand
One of Samsung's cameras, iPhone 6 uses it for FaceTime, various 4k TV's.
------
1ris
Why not use Daala to start from? The overlapping transform probably help
especially for still images, and the patent situation is probably at least
better.
~~~
aidenn0
I'm not sure that Daala has finalized it's I-frame format yet.
~~~
TD-Linux
There's no reason to wait until the I-frame format is finalized - a still
image format would probably be a separate codec anyway, so compatibility isn't
important.
~~~
sp332
Especially if you're shipping the decoder in JS alongside the encoded file.
------
AshleysBrain
This definitely looks like it compares favourably against both JPEG and PNG.
The test doesn't directly compare against JPEG-2000, JPEG XR or WebP, but the
results are more convincing than any examples I've seen for any other formats,
and the Mozilla study showed HEVC's format did best on quality metrics.
I hope browser vendors take note. The patent issues are concerning, but if
that can be worked around and a new spec designed, then we might just actually
have a new image format for the web which really is better than what we've
already got.
------
tericho
I'm not qualified to comment on BPG, but this is the first I've heard of Mr.
Bellard. I enjoy reading works from minds of this caliber. He seems to be a
model citizen for the programming community. Are there others I should know
about like Fabrice?
------
GhotiFish
So can anyone talk about the patent issues? I hear there are multiple holders
of HVEC patents and they are willing to use them. So if you use this library,
wouldn't you be liable?
I'd really like to know that. Because I'd _really_ like to use this.
------
grondilu
I've tried it with a picture of mine. The encoding process was painfully slow,
but I guess that does not concern the end-user much. The file size went from
1.2M in jepg to 164K in bpg, and the decoding was fairly fast. After turning
the image back into PNG the quality seemed OK but that's tough to assess
objectively.
The coolest thing is this javascript program that can decode and display the
pictures on-the-fly.
Definitely an image format that could save storage space and bandwith, IMHO.
------
sp332
Wow, I didn't even know there were open-source HEVC encoders. I thought there
were patent issues. Now I'm off to re-encode my bluray collection!
~~~
TD-Linux
There are still patent issues, and you still need to obtain a license to use
the software. You will never see this image format integrated into any other
open source projects, like Firefox, for this reason.
~~~
wmf
Like how you'll never see H.264, DRM, or WebKit in Firefox?
~~~
sp332
WebKit in Firefox?
~~~
derf_
He is referring to <[https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-
ios>](https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios>).
But you will note that none of those things are "in" Firefox. H.264 support in
the <video> tag is implemented via platform-specific APIs (which, for example
_still_ don't work on OS X). DRM requires a CDM binary blob, which is again
platform specific. You do not have the open-source freedom to port these
features to some other platform that does not support them.
------
ksec
Few questions and thoughts on top of my head.
1\. Why a Subset of HEVC Still Picture Profile? Why not just a use HEVC
Picture instead?
2\. Since JS sources are readable and being interpreted by VM ( Free Speech ),
patents issues should not be a problem?
3\. I am assuming the quality of BGP still has Lots and Lots improvement to be
made? Since all H.265 encoder hasn't had the time to be tuned. ( Compared to
x264 )
------
hyp0
I guess the JS is just for proof of concept until support is shipped with
browsers etc, but it isn't rendering properly in the stock Android browser
(4.2.2).
It gets to Lena's head in the first image, then becomes brigtly multi-
coloured, though it looks like the difference between colours right... as if
maybe an int overflow in the browser's JS implementation?
------
asah
holy crap, check this out:
[http://img1.buyersbestfriend.com/mkg/snackspage/images/bpg.h...](http://img1.buyersbestfriend.com/mkg/snackspage/images/bpg.html)
186,967 ==> 29,872 and indistinguishable, 6.25:1
(and pls tell me if it breaks on your browser - I want to push this live!!!)
adam
~~~
ChrisGranger
That's far from indistinguishable to me. It's actually _quite_ obvious that
the BPG is blurring detail at that compression ratio.
Edit: it's particularly noticeable in the wood grain patterns. Also, there's a
soft grey dot to the left of the top of the lamp, 100px or so, that's entirely
missing in the BPG. There are loads more examples...
Edit again: the color saturation of the rug is pretty washed-out as well.
~~~
asah
oops, I wasn't clear... it's meant as a giant background image, and the
quality competes with really nasty jaggies that start appearing below ~100KB
in size. Nobody will notice wood grain, a few missing details, etc.
~~~
nfoz
> a giant background image
why would you do this
------
PythonicAlpha
I would guess, that decoding speed can become an issue for websites, where
many images are already in the cache but are re-displayed rather often...
I write this, because I am building such an application and for now it has
many PNGs ... and yes, using a format like BPG would be fine, because I use
the PNGs only because of transparency ... but when redisplay is done via a
Java Script, I doubt that I could have the same speed. Loading is not so much
a limiting factor, since after some time, all relevant PNGs are already in the
browser cache.
Can anybody say something to this topic?
Of course, it would be great to have this integrated into the mayor browsers
soon ...
------
spb
Don't we already have WebP?
~~~
WhitneyLand
Yes but webp hasn't taken off as much as some would like as a defacto
standard.
BPG looks good upon cursory inspection. It seems to be more efficient than
WebP and supports 42-bit color. It also has .png's features of transparency
and lossless compression although I didn't see anything mentioned about
animation to replace .gif.
Bonus: since it's based on h.265 hardware support will come naturally and
should be just a software update for devices that already have HEVC
capability.
~~~
dahjelle
Not to mention it has a JavaScript port that means it can work it browsers
_today_.
~~~
kzrdude
Doesn't a JavaScript implementation offset most of the performance benefits?
Today we have browsers that are smart about when to cache the decoded image
and when not, etc; does that have to be reimplemented in javascript?
~~~
billconan
I have tried a dart webp decoder. it was so slow. decoding a small image
(400*300) takes 300msecs.
------
xyproto
This is the guy behind Tiny C Compiler, jslinux.org (running Linux in
JavaScript in the browser) and Qemu. (And several other interesting projects).
This alone makes me have great faith in BPG.
------
vmarsy
Impressive! Right now it requires a .js decoder, of 75kb.
Assuming a fast C++ decoder instead,(possibly GPU accelerated if the decoding
algorithm is well suited for it) and not using JS but what would be the
rendering times?
PNG are 4x bigger in his experiments, but interlaced PNG makes it more
pleasant to users since it can be rendered progressively, can BPG benefit from
such a thing?
edit: Interlacing is also used in JPEG, isn't it ?
It's a tradeoff, as a user, it's obvisouly a win situation when we have a low
bandwidth, and as a server it's obviously a win.
~~~
TD-Linux
Progressive rendering of HEVC is not possible in the same way as it is done
for JPEG or PNG. It is also not very suited to GPU rendering.
A C++ decoder with assembly optimizations could easily run four times as fast
as the Javascript version. Unfortunately distributing it would not be possible
due to patents.
~~~
kinghajj
Why would a C++ version have to worry about patents but the JS one does not?
~~~
TD-Linux
They both have to worry, just a different person. For JS, it is the page
author / publisher. For C++, it would be the browser vendor.
------
pronoiac
I think we crashed the site. Coral Cache has the front page, at least:
[http://bellard.org.nyud.net/bpg/](http://bellard.org.nyud.net/bpg/)
~~~
beefsack
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fbellard.org%2Fbpg%2F)
~~~
jason_slack
bellard.org seems to be back up now..
------
libroj
Unfortunately, a lot of what I do with images is constrained by what can be
losslessly embedded in a PDF. Even if no influential organisation is opposed
to BPG it will take at least 3 years, I would guess, for BPG to become part of
the PDF standard, and then another year or so for it to become reasonable to
expect people to have PDF readers that can handle it. However, I wouldn't be
surprised to see BPG being widely used in 2020.
------
msoad
How does it compare to WebP? Also, how you measures lossy image quality? What
are the metrics? I hope it's not just by looking at result and judging.
~~~
TD-Linux
Looking at the result and judging is actually the best and most important
metric. There are numerical metrics, like SSIM, but they are always worse than
human comparison trials. You're optimizing for what looks best to a human in
the end, after all.
~~~
pornel
It's very hard to create a fair test.
The problem with human judgement that it's very imprecise. You're unlikely to
notice difference between JPEG at Q=90 and Q=95, but you can't say it doesn't
matter, because that can cause 40% difference in file size. OTOH objective
metrics can easily spot that.
"Looks the same to me" leaves a lot of room for error and you could be
unfairly telling one format to save much more detail than the other. And
almost by definition these are the details you're least likely to be able to
see.
There's also a pitfall of choosing image that looks subjectively "nicer"
rather than closer to the original. Codecs that are better (e.g. faithfully
preserve noise) may be judged as worse than another codec that's an accidental
Instagram filter.
------
lorddoig
Does anyone know what percentage of traffic is JPG/PNG? My curiosity wants to
try to put a dollar-value on the potential global bandwidth savings.
~~~
ahoge
[http://httparchive.org/interesting.php](http://httparchive.org/interesting.php)
------
than
Pronounced 'bee-peg'?
~~~
artmageddon
Kinda curious about this as well. I wonder if the alternate would be "bee-pee-
gee" which feels way too long to say :)
~~~
dluan
I naturally started saying in my head "bee-pee-gee", but since the P stands
for portable, maybe even "bee-porg" instead of "bee-peg"? :)
------
aidenn0
How many "better JPEGs" have been created now, without significantly
displacing JPEG's market share?
~~~
ChrisGranger
Indeed. Without out-of-the-box support in the major image editors like
Photoshop and all the popular web browsers, I don't think we'll see JPEG
overtaken any time soon.
~~~
dluan
Honestly, just last night I was looking and editing photos of a recent trip,
and I uploaded them to tumblr to share on a small photo blog I just recently
started. After spending some time trying to get the colors right, I realized
that tumblr's image compression is god awfully horrendous. I felt so bad
looking at my source JPEGs next to the tumblr post that I created a new flickr
account right then.
I don't necessarily think JPEG is bad, or that it's even Tumblr's fault that I
first thought to share photos there, but if any service/software started using
BPG I think I would excitedly try it out.
[e.g. [http://www.huddug.com/](http://www.huddug.com/) vs
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/127341162@N03/15762469070/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/127341162@N03/15762469070/)]
------
ajmurmann
This worked awesome on my MacBook and my PC, but I am getting some massive
rendering errors in Safari on my iPad 3:
[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18855215/bpg.PNG](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18855215/bpg.PNG)
------
_nickwhite
I really dig it, but I'm not yet familiar with BPG. It seems that decoding it
would take more processing power, and potentially be slower than JPG. Is this
the case? Under the "performance" section, decoding speed was not mentioned.
~~~
sp332
Yes, it's slower and takes more RAM than JPG. I can see a delay of about a
second in my browser. (Edit: I assume my browser is caching the data, but if
not, some of that time could be re-downloading the data.)
~~~
biot
[Edit] I had misunderstood the quoted Mozilla performance claims[0] to be
related to processing speed, whereas they refer to performance being a
measurement of quality. Thanks sp332 for the correction.
[0]
[http://people.mozilla.org/~josh/lossy_compressed_image_study...](http://people.mozilla.org/~josh/lossy_compressed_image_study_july_2014/)
~~~
sp332
Compression performance does not mean speed. It just means how well it
compressed the images. None of the tests on that page even mention speed.
------
azakai
Looks like the JS decoder is compiled using emscripten, very nice.
------
frontsideair
Very out of topic but, is lena.jpg still acceptable? I mean, tech industry is
getting better at inclusion but come on, are we still using that crop from
Playboy?
~~~
CamperBob2
Considering that Lenna herself is fine with it, I'd say so. (Unless you want
to deny a woman the right to permit the use of her own body for aesthetic,
erotic, or academic purposes, which is the logical if ironic outcome of some
schools of feminism.)
The problem with the Lenna imagery isn't political correctness, it's the fact
that it's a crappy scan from a magazine that always had crappy photography to
begin with.
~~~
j2kun
The "fine" thing would be to let Lena use photographs of herself in her own
work.
The problem is that women in science cannot read a paper on image processing
without being reminded that it's a boy's club.
~~~
CamperBob2
_The problem is that women in science cannot read a paper on image processing
without being reminded that it 's a boy's club._
I find this attitude far more patronizing than any conceivable choice of test
imagery in a graphics research project.
Suggest reading this before posting anything else about the delicate
sensibilities of "women in science":
[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/magazine/my-great-great-
au...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/magazine/my-great-great-aunt-
discovered-francium-and-it-killed-her.html?_r=0)
Do you think any of those women would have spared a half-second's thought
about this issue? Somehow, I don't think so. I think they were too busy doing
science.
~~~
j2kun
I'm sure they do, because I can point to them speaking up about it.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#Controversy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#Controversy)
I'm not saying all women are crippled by it, because they have to deal with
such nonsense while walking down the street every day. But can't we as
scientists strive to improve the status quo?
~~~
CamperBob2
(Shrug) I can point to outraged people "speaking up" about everything from
global warming to Jar-Jar Binks. It doesn't prove much, except that some
people enjoy a good bout of outrage.
The scientists in the article I linked, on the other hand, aren't speaking up
about anything, because they're all dead.
~~~
j2kun
You're implying that because the women you picked didn't speak up and just did
their work, that somehow that is the model all women should follow (because
Science, apparently). Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected
by attitudes toward women. Just because they did not speak up does not imply
there were no negative effects of contemporary attitudes toward women. On the
other hand, I have evidence that researchers _are_ affected by it.
~~~
CamperBob2
_Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward
women._
The New York Times Magazine article is pretty long, it'll take you a few
minutes to read it. I'll wait.
Short version: they suffered _real_ discrimination, which you've diminished by
comparing it to the use of Lenna.jpg in a graphics project.
~~~
j2kun
Fine, I didn't read it. What is your point? That just because something is
worse for one person that we should ignore problems affecting another? That
someone else has suffered in the past is not a reason to give up improving the
status quo today.
------
thewarrior
The best coders seem to have the simplest websites.
------
tbro
Has anyone installed the bpg encoder bpg-0.9.2-win32 on a windows 7 machine,
and if so how did you do it?
------
joegaudet
Looks like his site is down, too much HN traffic.
------
loudmax
I appreciate the historical tradition of using the photo of beautiful young
Lena Söderberg as a test image, but it's time to move on. It's fun for us
hetero males, but like it or not, this sends a message to young women that
they aren't welcome in this field. I wish Fabrice Bellard would have left them
out of the demo set.
Having said that, all those demo photos do look good. I was wondering how we
were going to see a demo in the browser without built-in support, but leave it
to the man who put Linux in the browser to write a decoder in javascript. This
is an encouraging project.
~~~
gambiter
People are too sensitive. I'm a hetero male, and I don't find the image 'fun'
at all... it's just an image. It doesn't send a message to anyone. If
anything, I don't really care for it for image algorithm tests because the
palette is fairly flat.
No matter how you feel about the image itself, though, there is value in
continuing to use it... people are familiar with it, to the point of it
becoming almost cliché. This takes the focus off of the image and subject and
puts it squarely on the image algorithm.
~~~
sp332
The smallish downside of continuing with it may outweigh the very small
upside. The image by itself might not be a big deal, but we're trying to
disrupt the pattern of women being used only as objects, not perpetuate it.
~~~
lectrick
If we used a male model as a photographic test subject here, is that not the
sexist objectification of males? Should we use an unattractive person or an
animal instead? Are you going to attack the very notion of beauty or the fact
that women are the "fairer sex"?
~~~
sp332
Sure, it could be objectification. It's pretty cut and dried in this case
since the image was scanned from a magazine almost at random. The woman had no
agency in the decision at all.
Of course I'm going to attack that. Women are required to be beautiful or they
are deemed worthless, or failures. So they put a lot of work into it from a
fear of failure. Men can be beautiful too, especially to a woman's eye which
you've never seen through. If men were made to worry about their appearance as
much as women, we'd be "fair" too.
~~~
mnx
>Women are required to be beautiful or they are deemed worthless, or failures.
I am truly sad for you if that is the case in your enviroment, but please,
please do not generalise like that.
~~~
sp332
Fortunately, it is not the case in my environment. But it is a dominant
message.
------
faragon
Bellard is a genius.
------
joelthelion
Fabrice Bellard strikes again!
------
wtbob
> Supported by most Web browsers with a small Javascript decoder
Well, so much for that. Executing code in order to view an image is just
begging to be exploited…
------
Animats
The results only show marginal improvement.
What's needed is a compression method that doesn't introduce artifacts on hard
edges, as JPEG does, but is otherwise no worse at compression than JPEG. Then
we wouldn't need to do some things in JPEG and others in PNG, and we'd be
spared the pain of JPEG screenshots. Much better results on the Tecnick image
set (which is mostly hard edges) would indicate one had been found. The
results only indicate modest improvement in that area.
~~~
sillysaurus3
_The results only show marginal improvement._
The improvement is far from marginal. In particular:
... I just tried to link you to a BPG image, and discovered that I can't.
Well, I'm going to ignore that little flaw for the moment, because that's just
a browser feature. If BPG catches on, that's sure to change.
Anyway, the improvement is far from marginal:
[http://a.pomf.se/cdywsc.png](http://a.pomf.se/cdywsc.png)
In particular, look around her face, eyes, and the background. The JPG is not
just worse, but in fact very worse.
A more serious flaw is that it doesn't support animation. It doesn't need to
be a video format. It just needs to be able to play a sequence of frames in
succession. This is as easy as including a header that specifies how many
frames are in the animation and the duration of each frame, followed by the
image data itself. The fact that PNG doesn't have this has plagued the format
since the internet became popular.
That may seem like "a video format," but it's not. Video decoders optimize for
inter-frame compression, not intra-frame compression, so it's a different
problem altogether. BPG doesn't need to do everything, but it should probably
have basic animation.
~~~
cwyers
That depends on what you mean by "worse" and "very". I think for most use-
cases, those differences are not something likely to be noticed by the
majority of users.
~~~
sillysaurus3
The purpose of a test like this is to measure visual performance, and the JPG
result is performing very badly.
Open these two images in a separate browser tab, then switch back and forth
between them:
[http://a.pomf.se/fsnfxz.png](http://a.pomf.se/fsnfxz.png)
[http://a.pomf.se/lfzyrh.png](http://a.pomf.se/lfzyrh.png)
Those are the upper images of the test. Also try these, the lower images:
[http://a.pomf.se/bgqcag.png](http://a.pomf.se/bgqcag.png)
[http://a.pomf.se/hxlwcm.png](http://a.pomf.se/hxlwcm.png)
Again, JPG is not merely worse, but very worse. In fact, JPG makes it look
like she's wearing a hat that's made of crosshatch material at the top, when
in fact the top is composed of rings of fiber, not crosshatch.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Know your chemical weapons - xadxad
http://boingboing.net/2013/05/28/know-your-chemical-weapons.html
======
devicenull
Direct link
[http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/05/24/chemical_wea...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/05/24/chemical_weapons_wwii_posters_taught_soldiers_to_identify_gasses_by_smell.html?wpisrc=obinsite)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Multicore OCaml: Feb 2020 update - sadiq
https://discuss.ocaml.org/t/multicore-ocaml-feb-2020-update/5227
======
pdimitar
I'll say it again every time OCaml is mentioned here: there are programmers
who are eagerly awaiting for it to become more friendly to the modern hardware
realities and then they'll use it a lot. Like myself.
(I am mainly waiting for multicore but SIMD/AVX would be nice as well.
Transparent parallelization of code without the programmer doing anything
about it except supplying a compilation flag would be a game-changer but eh,
we can dream right? After all, pure functions can be detected part of the time
so I don't see why not.)
I get the vibe that the current community that's driving it forward is small,
dedicated and overworked. Sad to hear that but rest assured that the community
will grow once OCaml has multicore support. People will want to contribute
once they can suddenly replace their Python or Go codebases with OCaml.
(I'd probably also ask to throw away the C strings and only leave the UTF-8
ones in but I am aware that the OCaml developers are very committed to
backwards compatibility so likely not going to happen.)
Great work and progress! Keep it up! <3
~~~
Ono-Sendai
You may be interested in our functional programming language Winter. It does
auto-parallelisation (WIP) and auto-vectorisation:
[http://forwardscattering.org/post/22](http://forwardscattering.org/post/22)
It's not open sourced yet but will be soonish.
~~~
pdimitar
Really cute. :) Liked the article.
That being said, I'm not looking to get back to C++.
Your work is interesting though. I'd like to see things like these upstreamed
in Rust.
------
abacate
Algebraic effects are going to put OCaml on a next level in terms of
expressivity, abstraction and decoupling capabilities of separate tasks. It
would be like going from a type system like C, with only concrete types, to
parametric polymorphism and/or generics.
Multicore is a very nice addition, but the fact that it is going to be coupled
with an effect system is a game changer for the language as a whole.
~~~
rixed
I, for one, would gladly trade threaded GC and unchecked effects for checked
exceptions... Unless there is a way to implement some kind of poor man checked
exceptions with unchecked effects?
~~~
ameixaseca
Please see [1]. Around 28:45 the talk moves to effect types. At around 29:25
the proposed mechanism (with throw) is literally described as "checked
exceptions".
AFAIK, this is all part of the roadmap.
[1] [https://www.janestreet.com/tech-talks/effective-
programming/](https://www.janestreet.com/tech-talks/effective-programming/)
~~~
rixed
Yes thank you, exactly what I was looking for.
------
eatonphil
Good to get an update on multicore. On the other side of the pond, parallel
MLton [0] is making solid progress. And Poly/ML [1] has had pthreads for a
while.
[0] [https://github.com/MPLLang/mpl](https://github.com/MPLLang/mpl)
[1]
[https://www.polyml.org/documentation/Reference/Threads.html](https://www.polyml.org/documentation/Reference/Threads.html)
------
msvan
Languages like Haskell and Go already have multicore GCs. How does OCaml's
multicore GC compare? Is the work taking a long time because it is doing
something brand new in the design space, or is it simply hard to integrate it
with a mature language that was designed to be single core?
~~~
sadiq
Disclaimer: I don't speak for OCaml or OCaml Labs but I am a contributor to
multicore.
It is indeed that it is hard to retrofit parallelism on to an existing
language while trying to retain backwards compatibility _and_ performance.
Backwards compatibility is tricky because there's lots of C code using the C
API.
Performance is hard because OCaml users are used to well performing code, with
low and predictable pause times from the GC (<10ms).
The community is small and it seems like there wasn't appetite for maintaining
two distinct runtimes with very different performance characteristics.
The current implementation for multicore GC ([https://github.com/ocaml-
multicore/ocaml-multicore](https://github.com/ocaml-multicore/ocaml-
multicore)) is reasonably close to upstream in performance on single threaded
code and yet will scale up to multiple threads. It requires a change to the C
API though.
There's a modified multicore GC ([https://github.com/ctk21/ocaml-
multicore/tree/stw_minor_gc](https://github.com/ctk21/ocaml-
multicore/tree/stw_minor_gc)) that doesn't require the C API change and we're
currently writing up a paper that contrasts the two wit a fairly substantial
amount of benchmarking
([https://github.com/ocamllabs/sandmark](https://github.com/ocamllabs/sandmark)).
Happy to answer any questions.
~~~
throwaway894345
> Performance is hard because OCaml users are used to well performing code,
> with low and predictable pause times from the GC (<10ms).
I would expect that low pause times are easy enough (or relatively easy
considering the difficult domain of GC optimization), but keeping the
allocations cheap is (one of) the key constraints, no?
~~~
sadiq
Yes, it's very easy to make pause times low if you're willing to make
allocation expensive - it's all trade-offs.
In multicore's case it's about keeping low pause times while also keeping
allocation cheap _and_ maintaining throughput.
~~~
chrisseaton
Why would _allocation_ become more expensive in parallel? Surely you’re
allocating in thread-local space? It’s like two machine instructions. Where
does the extra overhead come from?
~~~
throwaway894345
If you want conventional shared memory parallelism, then your allocations
can't assume thread-locality.
~~~
chrisseaton
> If you want conventional shared memory parallelism, then your allocations
> can't assume thread-locality.
I don't really understand why not. Can you expand on it? Doesn't the JVM for
example do thread-local allocations in a conventional shared-memory parallel
environment?
~~~
throwaway894345
I was mistaken; wasn't thinking clearly as I responded. JVM can get away with
this because it's generational/moving; bump allocator works in the young
generation and then objects are subsequently moved. Generational/moving is
tricky, especially with C APIs (if the GC moves an object that C has a pointer
to, the C code dereferencing the pointer will find potentially garbage data)
and I believe they make it difficult to get good STW times, but at this point
I'm pretty well out of my depth.
------
sideeffffect
Could somebody, who's familiar with both worlds, please compare OCaml's
Multicore, Algebraic effects, Reagents with Scala's Monix or ZIO?
I'm familiar with the latter, but would love to learn more about OCaml.
------
risk2030
I created an account just to ask, what is the fetish and obsession with OCaml
and functional stuff on here? Does anyone actually write it (besides Erlang)?
OCaml specifically is such an obscure language you'd have a hard time
explaining it to most people who are software engineers.
Who cares?
~~~
wk_end
Facebook uses Ocaml in the form of Reason, they're a pretty big deal. I think
they also use Haskell?
Lots of financial companies, including some serious heavy-hitters like
Bloomberg, use functional languages like Haskell and Ocaml. I suppose the
blockchain folks are pretty enamoured with it too.
Plenty of big companies like Twitter use Scala, which is plenty functional.
Even on the front-end side: JavaScript was directly inspired by Scheme;
TypeScript was hugely inspired by languages like Ocaml and Haskell; React and
Redux's inspirations fall directly out of the functional programming
community.
Rust, out of Mozilla, is also a descendent of the functional programming
world; its compiler was originally written in Ocaml.
Just the other day there was a conversation on here about type-system enforced
optionals. Almost every "modern" language has grown these in the past decade,
often including monadic combinators to help minimize boilerplate. All of this
comes from what ML and Haskell were doing as many as 30 years ago.
Speaking of monadic combinators: these are also frequently used in modern
languages with async libraries to avoid what the JS community termed "callback
hell".
TBH if you've developed software in the past ten years, it's unlikely you
haven't been hugely affected by what the FP community has been doing, and it's
not impossible that watching what they're doing now give you a glimpse of
where mainstream programming will be a decade or more down the line.
~~~
terminaljunkid
> "TBH if you've developed software in the past ten years, it's unlikely you
> haven't been hugely affected by what the FP community has been doing."
Apart from HN / reddit bubble, not many people know about FP, and not to imply
that's their fault. FP is still weird, difficult for mere mortals, and ivory
tower elitism is holding some of its useful ideas back.
~~~
sideeffffect
people are doing FP, or using ideas originating in FP without even knowing it:
* Java/C# generics
* sealed interfaces and record classes
* pattern matching
* first-class functions with closures
* even type system itself (eg Python is gaining a type system)
* ...
The world of programming languages is converging, no matter how slowly,
towards ML
[https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/talks/mlw13.pdf](https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/talks/mlw13.pdf)
~~~
terminaljunkid
Half of those things aren't even specific to FP. And I bet most people don't
even use pattern matching outside HN / reddit bubble, not to say it isn't
cool.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
No, Ebook sales aren't down. Major publishers' sales are down - caseysoftware
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-collapse-of-publishing-industry.html
======
GFK_of_xmaspast
I would have to see evidence from a different source besides Vox Day / Ted
Beale before believing it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Introducing TelAPI - dougiebuckets
http://www.telapi.com/blog/introducing-telapi-todays-most-feature-rich-telephony-api/
Introducing TelAPI – Today’s Most Feature Rich Telephony API
======
timdorr
"No longer must developers and entrepreneurs have a deep understanding of
telecommunications systems to build applications that leverage voice and SMS."
Kinda makes this sound like you've never heard of Twilio. And given that a lot
of your audience has heard of them, it makes you look a little naive.
I think a better way to put it (paraphrasing) would be to say TelAPI is the
_best_ way to build applications that use voice and SMS. Go on the attack and
demonstrate why you're better. Show that implementation with the competition
requires more code or certain functionality just isn't possible.
~~~
dougiebuckets
Great comment, appreciate the feedback. We'll keep that in mind and perhaps
tweak that statement a bit.
We do acknowledge Twilio and respect what they've done so far. Though, we're
confident TelAPI's increased set of features are well-suited to satisfy the
needs of developers building systems with highly custom telephony
requirements. Twilio's solved 80% of the problem. We're out there to solve the
remaining 20%.
~~~
kodablah
Can you expand (here or on the site) on the "increased set of features"? As
someone who is currently evaluating systems like Twilio and Plivo, I am having
trouble easily distinguishing between them.
~~~
dougiebuckets
Absolutely. Some of the more notable include:
"The ability to set your outbound Caller ID to any number" - This is an
attribute in our <Dial> element which allows developers to build systems that
initiate calls from the phone number of their choosing. E.g. I can initiate a
call to Bob from phone number (555) 555-5555. I.e. it doesn't have to be from
my TelAPI number.
"Reverse carrier lookups on phone numbers"- TelAPI provides a way to look up
the carrier of a phone number via the REST API.
"Flat-rate unlimited inbound calling to your TelAPI phone numbers" - For
businesses/users racking up the voice mins per month, they can opt to buy an
unlimited inbound channel for $27/mo instead of paying min/mo rates.
"Voice and audio effects on your phone calls" - These allow developers to
modify the pitch and tone of a caller's voice (and basically make their voice
sound like anyone they want). We also offer an ambient noise feature to add
background noise to calls (e.g. city traffic, poor reception, etc).
"Private number Caller ID unblocking" - Upon receiving calls from blocked
numbers, users are able to ascertain the callerID. Our parent company TelTech
developed an application called TrapCall which takes advantage of this.
"Premium transcriptions with human processed dictation Speech recognition" -
We offer four different transcription services (varying based on a
developer's/business's needs) which allow consumers to record their calls and
have the dialogues from the calls captured in text.
Thanks for the question!
~~~
gmac
Some of these features sound a little scuzzy to me. Phone number spoofing,
thwarting callers' privacy expectations, and pretending to be somewhere you
aren't: not so awesome.
Still, it's good to see competition emerging in this space.
~~~
dougiebuckets
Hi gmac, appreciate the note - understand where you're coming from.
It's really important to us at TelAPI to expose as many features to developers
as possible. Telcos offer all of these features to different businesses and
organizations already. Consequently, we want to ensure they're available to
every developer as well.
There's so much room for innovation in the telephony space, we want to ensure
TelAPI facilities it in every way possible.
We're really excited to see what you guys come up with!
------
ewang1
Why is there a $0.05/call charge to set the caller ID? This feature is already
available on Tropo at no cost.
~~~
dougiebuckets
Hi ewang, thanks for pointing this out. Each telephony API handles pricing a
bit differently. For instance, a production US phone number with Tropo is
$3/mo whereas with TelAPI it's only $1/mo. A production toll free number with
Tropo is $5/mo whereas with TelAPI it's only $2/mo.
Consumers in this space have a great deal of feature/pricing autonomy. So when
it comes to selecting a telephony API that's right for them, they're well-
positioned to identify the best feature/pricing balance.
Thanks again for the comment!
------
runT1ME
Ok guys, we really need to standardize a Telco REST api.
It seems most people are copying Twilios, but at this point we have Tropo,
Twilio, Plivio, TelAPI (Thank you for not having a wierd name at least), my
own Open Source server, and whatever extensions are going to get baked into
the next Asterisk and FreeSWITCH versions...
I believe the community would do itself a great service to agree on at least a
few standards....
~~~
sologoub
That has been tried already. See VoiceXML (<http://www.voicexml.org>) and
CCXML (<http://www.w3.org/TR/ccxml/>)
The problem with those two standards, is that they are not being followed
well, and are also far to granular for most implementations. Twilio was a real
breakthrough in terms of getting projects off the ground fast.
Tropo and Plivo have also emerged as additional options in that space.
The main problem I see with this new API is that there really is no incentive
for me to go to them over Twilio, Tropo or Plivo. What Twilio doesn't provide
is covered well by Tropo and Plivo. The only interesting thing offered is
unlimited inbound per channel, however, if you have SIP, you can get it
cheaper from companies like FlowRoute
(<http://flowroute.com/services/inbound/>) and pay $18 per channel, rather
than $27.
Compare this with: Twilio - first mover, known reputation, strong funding.
Tropo - backed by Voxeo (over a decade in business), offers many enterprise-
grade things; Prism (IVR server) is opensource. Plivo - a lot cheaper than
everyone else, and offers open source layer for FreeSWITCH.
~~~
dougiebuckets
This is awesome! I love seeing comments like this. You obviously know the
space which is great!
I think you'll find that we're approaching telephony from a different
perspective. We're a bootstrapped company of developers building a product for
developers. Our users and our product are what matter most to us (along with
maintaining a sustainable business of course). We love this stuff! We have no
interest in catering to VCs.
How about this, I'll give you $50 in free credits (on top of the initial $25)
and you can hack away with TelAPI and tell us what we're doing wrong and what
we're doing right. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
What do you think?
~~~
sologoub
I'll take it, if the offer still stands. How should I get in touch with you?
~~~
dougiebuckets
Awesome! Tweet me @dougiebuckets
------
dougiebuckets
Hi everyone, dev evangelist at TelAPI here. If you have questions or thoughts
you'd like to share, feel free to let me know - thanks!
~~~
MichaelGG
1\. Flat-rate unlimited orig? How many channels then?
2\. "Unblock caller ID"? You mean, perform a CNAM lookup on the number? If a
caller doesn't send a number, that's sorta that. I'm guessing you're just
referring to the flag "hey please don't display the number or lookup a name",
right?
As far as setting caller-ID, that's great. Do you have a plan to deal with
abuse, which is why I imagine Twilio disables it for the masses? (Not that
it's hard to do at all, from a technical perspective.) And of course, not
available for doing with SMS.
Good luck!
~~~
dougiebuckets
Thanks Michael! With regards to your questions...
1\. The flat-rate is $27/mo per channel. TelAPI also offers channel bursting .
This ultimately means developers and businesses have on demand access to
additional channels for TelAPI numbers with unlimited inbound calls. E.g. You
have 1 unlimited inbound number with 10 channels. Then you receive an 11th
call. Channel bursting ensures the call can still access the application and
won't ring busy.
2) CallID unmasking allows developers and businesses to identify the number
and ID of calls received from 'Blocked' and 'Private' numbers to your TelAPI
number
Our parent company TelTech uses it for one of their products:
<http://www.trapcall.com/>
------
josh2600
At 2600hz, we're tremendously excited about voice Apis, but we also see value
in core telephony infrastructure.
How you interface with the stack is only half the problem, the underlying
stack is where we innovate. Everybody has Rest APIs, but not too many
companies are working on interfacing with equipment and dealing with core
scaling issues (keeping state across the cluster becomes very interesting at
scale).
This is cool, but as everyone else has noted, this is becoming a crowded
space. Can you talk a bit about your underlying infrastructure? Are you guys a
Freeswitch shop or did you reinvent the wheel in some capacity?
Curious :).
~~~
dougiebuckets
Hey Josh! All very interesting points. TelAPI is built on top of a FreeSWITCH.
Can you point me towards some of your work? I'd love to learn more about what
you're doing with the underlying stack.
Thanks man
------
driverdan
When is a company going to have an SMS API with reasonable pricing? $0.01 a
message is crazy to me considering how little they actually cost.
------
dbarlett
Does anyone know of a comparison chart between Twilio, Tropo, Plivo and TelAPI
(and any others I don't know about)?
------
dworin
What's the turnaround time for the Gold/Platinum transcription? What's the
estimated accuracy for them?
------
mingpan
I felt a bit misled by the title, personally. Please make it clearer you are
promoting your own product.
~~~
dougiebuckets
Hi mingpan, sorry about that. It looks as though a HN moderator changed the
headline before I had a chance. Hopefully it's less ambiguous now!
------
vizzah
Trying to sign-up, but never received SMS message. I hope it's not for US only
mobiles.
~~~
cynix
Same here, the verification SMS never came.
------
brianbreslin
awesome! i am friends with Nate, their Miami based guy. Looking forward to
seeing how other people integrate their API to their apps.
~~~
dougiebuckets
Nate is definitely a sharp dude. We're lucky he's a part of the team.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Prose Garden – Spiritual Child of Dr. Doubs Journal - e12e
http://theprosegarden.com/
======
e12e
Just came across this drm free digital magazine that's been published since
2009[1], edited by Michael Swaine and Nancy Groth[2]. Closely associated with
pragprog.com.
Apologies for the slightly editorialized title - but couldn't find any record
of it on hn previously, and it strikes me as somewhat similar to DDJ - a
magazine I'm sure many hners beside me enjoyed reading.
There's a special for all of 2017 for 15 USD:
[http://theprosegarden.com/store-
cart66/#specialsubscription](http://theprosegarden.com/store-
cart66/#specialsubscription)
[1] Free back-issues from first four years:
[https://pragprog.com/magazines](https://pragprog.com/magazines)
[2] [http://theprosegarden.com/about-the-prose-
garden/](http://theprosegarden.com/about-the-prose-garden/)
~~~
cylinder714
Maybe have the mods edit the title to "Dr. Dobb's"?
~~~
e12e
Oh dear. I hope so. Curse you, phone touch input.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why we build 7 productivity apps within a month - robins73
We launched our new startup a productivity tool Due.work on September 17th on ProductHunt.<p>Within a month we hit almost 1000+ users. We are a team of 5. We started with a web application and our customer was happily using it. As our user base started growing people started asking for Mobile and Desktop apps.<p>As time progresses, we recorded something very strange pattern followed by most of our users. So, we decided to study the lifecycle of our users.<p>We found that when a user signs into Due.work and starts using it. The average first-day analytics for its time spend was between 20-45 minutes. This time starts declining as each day passes and after a week's time spend by our users decline to almost 5 - 10 min.<p>We went up studying data further and categorize our users into 3 separate groups based on some conditions: Super Active | Active | Inactive Users
Super Active was that user who is using our platform on a daily basis. Active were those who use our platform but spend by less time compared to Super Active users and Inactive users were those who were an Active or Super Active user in the past but became inactive as time progresses.<p>From the data, we calculated the percentage of these groups which was 20% | 35% |45% that means 45% of our signup users become inactive after some time.<p>That was an alarming situation for us so, we started talking to our users to find out the exact reason for the same. We find out almost all users using our platform have already used or are currently using Trello, Monday or Basecamp. This was the main reason for our user being inactive over time because it is very difficult for a team to switch to a new productivity solution all of a sudden, It takes time to make the change.<p>So, we needed something with which our users can feel more connected with us.
Thus we decided to build apps for due.work targetting all platforms.<p>We end up building due.work apps for Mac os, Windows os, Linux, Android, iOS, Google Extension, and Firefox extension.<p>During our development we spend many sleepless nights developing it but all it was worth considering we finally end up building apps for all major platforms that we wanted to have.<p>It's been 2 days now since we have published all our apps. We never have been more than excited before.<p>Want to try our productivity tool visit: https://www.due.work<p>Original Post: https://www.due.work/blog/why-we-build-7-productivity-apps-within-a-month/
======
verdverm
[duplicate] from 10 hours ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21604089](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21604089)
| {
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Chronic Schizophrenia Put into Remission with Ketogenic Diet - daveytea
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/advancing-psychiatry/201904/chronic-schizophrenia-put-remission-without-medication
======
motohagiography
Ketogenic diets have been prescribed for people with seizure disorders
("epilepsy") for decades. Given some psychological disorders are also treated
with anti-convulsants, it's speculative, but a high fat diet causes a lot of
physiological and hormonal (testosterone/cortisol leveks) changes that the
possibility of it affecting brain function doesn't seem ridiculous.
Someone with high anxiety who has not tried strenuous exercise with a high
fat/protein low carb diet would seem to be leaving opportunity on the table as
well.
------
Kusse
I feel like ketogenic diet is the holy grail of health. Having followed a
"relaxed" version only 3 months now and I can honestly say that I have never
felt better. Depression, anxiety, motivation, sleep, fitness has all improved
for the better.
Having said that, the "diet" really makes you realize how hard it is to avoid
any kind of sugars in food, if you dont prepare it yourself. It is insane!
------
astazangasta
This is garbage. Contrary to popular belief, remission is in fact common in
schizophrenia, so n=2 demonstrates precisely nothing. In addition, there is no
evidence that schizophrenics have any brain dysfunction other than that caused
by taking neuroleptics for decades.
~~~
kdmccormick
Yikes. This case study isn't in any way conclusive, but it also doesn't claim
to be. You need a better reason than that to write it off as "garbage".
I have bipolar disorder. My uncle had schizophrenia. YEARS without an episode
AND without medication is an exciting prospect for many people, including
myself. I don't understand why you are so negative towards preliminary
findings that may point to a route of treatment that doesn't require
neuroleptics, which as you correctly point out, can cause cognitive
impairment.
~~~
rhinoceraptor
Also, it's been known almost 100 years that the ketogenic diet has
neuroprotective attributes. There's strong evidence of its efficacy for
epilepsy, and mounting evidence for all sorts of other conditions.
------
DoreenMichele
_It is well known that people with schizophrenia are three times more likely
to develop diabetes._
Well. That's significant.
Diabetes is linked to inflammation. So are a lot of brain issues.
I actually came here to note that the brain is 60% fat, so it seems reasonable
to assume that the amount and kind of dietary fat would matter a while lot for
a wide variety of brain related issues.
~~~
perl4ever
Popular antipsychotics cause weight gain and eventual diabetes. I don't think
that's obscure or controversial, so it seems weird to say "people with
schizophrenia are three times more likely to develop diabetes" out of context.
Like, are we talking about a large population of untreated people?
~~~
DoreenMichele
A longer outtake from the paragraph I was quoting:
_It is well known that people with schizophrenia are three times more likely
to develop diabetes. A common debate in the field is whether the antipsychotic
medications, which are known to cause weight gain and diabetes, are to blame.
Recent research suggests that this is not the entire explanation. Even people
newly diagnosed with schizophrenia appear to already have insulin resistance,
even though most don’t yet have diabetes. This means that their brains may not
be getting enough energy from glucose. Other brain studies have found
metabolic abnormalities, such as higher levels of oxidative stress and
inflammation as well._
~~~
perl4ever
Maybe chronic inflammation causes diabetes.
Recently, it's been observed that the rate of new diabetes cases is declining,
while obesity keeps going up. Nobody knows what's going on, even though we are
bombarded with theories.
I remember (I think) reading a long time ago about how someone had linked
insulin resistance to pain nerves (or maybe taste nerves, I forget) found in
the pancreas - even though you don't perceive with them consciously. I wonder
if anything came of that research.
~~~
DoreenMichele
_Maybe chronic inflammation causes diabetes._
I doubt that it's that straight forward. Inflammation is associated with both
chemical derangement and infection. Probably other things as well, like
allergic reactions.
Insulin resistance has also been linked to inadequate muscle mass more
strongly than to excess fat per se.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147)
| {
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#iotashaming - ingve
https://sean-parent.stlab.cc/2019/01/04/iota.html
======
atombender
Something seemingly glossed over in these discussions is whether calling it
"iota()" is even that helpful.
The fact that a lot of software engineers -- engineers, not mathematicians! --
are unfamiliar with it at least points to an impedance mismatch between the
standard and its intended users.
Calling this function "iota()" asks the reader/user to carry around with them
a considerable history of CS/maths. If you're a physicist writing code for the
LHC, sure. A game dev working on a AAA game? Possibly not. It's not a helpful
term if you _don 't already know it_.
On the other hand, something like "std::sequence()" or "std::fill_range()"
would be obvious to anyone, math degree or no.
~~~
gumby
It’s just a word to learn, like lambda or for. At the end of the day you have
to learn the semantics anyway; the label should be below your noise floor.
Musicians don’t complain about having to use Italian words (e.g. fortissimo).
Objecting to the foreign origin of iota (where the foreignness can be from its
Greek origin or mathematical origin) is not worth the effort.
~~~
alangpierce
You can argue that "it's not so bad, just learn it", but the confusion from
domain-specific jargon can really add up, from my experience, and I think more
understandable terminology is almost always better. I think that if we want to
design a welcoming system, we should try to make it intuitive and limit the
number of weird words that you need to "just learn". Imagine if every CSS
property was some greek letter instead of a descriptive name. Experts could
still use it, sure, but it would be even more hostile to beginners.
Iota is particularly bad not just because it's hard to understand and
remember, but because it's _easy to misunderstand_. In English, "iota" usually
means "a little bit", so my initial guess (after re-reading it a few times to
confirm it wasn't "itoa") was that it was a small float value, maybe some
variant of epsilon.
Relatedly, I'm a fan of Elon Musk's email against acronyms at SpaceX:
[https://gist.github.com/klaaspieter/12cd68f54bb71a3940eae5cd...](https://gist.github.com/klaaspieter/12cd68f54bb71a3940eae5cdd4ea1764)
------
binarymax
I don't understand the point this article is making, and don't agree with the
sentiment either.
One should not feel embarrassed for not knowing something and then asking more
in order to learn.
The correct term is not embarrassment, it is inquisitiveness - which must be
encouraged and not shamed
~~~
orangeeater
> One should not feel embarrassed for not knowing something and then asking
> more in order to learn.
Agreed: ignorance is not embarrassing. We're all ignorant about most things.
But it is embarrassing to say something like "why'd they name iota after a
Greek letter? To seem smart?" As this article explains, there is a history
there and it doesn't have anything to do with "seeming smart".
I didn't know the history of "iota". I'm only vaguely familiar with APL. And
I've never listened to a Turning Award lecture. This makes me ignorant. But I
also didn't criticize this feature from my place of ignorance because I'm
aware of it. Had I done so, it would be embarrassing.
I _have_ criticized things from ignorance in the past, and it _was_
embarrassing.
------
EdwardDiego
If I understand correctly, _iota_ fills a data structure with a range of
incrementing values.
...at the risk of sounding ignorant (perhaps I should be embarrassed?) why is
_iota_ a clearer name than, say, _range_?
I do have to admit upfront that I've not spent overly much time on APL because
in my day to day programming life, it's merely a historical curiosity that
required a special keyboard.
Also, the author's assumption that a senior software developer should have
studied a lecture from 1979 (that runs to 380ish pages) as a matter of course
is, well, bloody odd. I've read Joe Armstrong's dissertation on Erlang from
cover to cover because it was relevant to me. Can I now assert that any senior
developer who has not should be embarrassed?
------
soneca
_" I gave a lecture recently and a student stopped me. “I’m sorry, I don’t
know what a coroutine is. Can you explain?” More than happy to. That level of
embarrassment.
If you have a better word, please provide it. But I believe embarrassment is
the correct emotion to feel in response to one’s own ignorance."_
"Embarrassment", for me, is definitely not the right word.
If I feel embarrassed, I do not ask. I will go quietly google it.
_" Bothered"_ might be a better word?
~~~
protomyth
I'm only going to feel embarrassment if it was some kind of prerequisite for
the lecture, and like you I would probably just look it up afterwords
(probably on YouTube).
I would admit to ignorance if I have never learned the subject and
forgetfulness if I had learned it and forgot or just had a "brain fart" and
temporarily forgot which would leave me annoyed at myself. I think this
article misuses embarrassed.
------
lclarkmichalek
From
[https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/iota](https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/iota):
> The function is named after the integer function ⍳ from the programming
> language APL.
The article spends a lot of time talking about how a lot of things leading up
to std::iota are very important, but not very much time talking about why
they're important.
------
KeyboardFire
While I agree that the criticism "you're just trying to look smart" is
misguided, it's a bit ironic that his response had the implication that "if I
know this thing and you don't then you should be embarrassed [because I'm
smarter/better than you]."
(I think that was the source of much of the objection to the comment, and the
post makes no attempt to apologize for it, even if it was unintended.)
------
mschuetz
iota is silly because it's non-descriptive even though there are so much more
descriptive alternatives, such as simply naming it range. To me, iota falls
under the same category as naming variables acig, gfeq, fqcl, aiwn, or any
other permutation of of 4 letters that have nothing to do with what it does.
~~~
meheleventyone
I also keep reading it as i-to-a which shows my own bias but doesn’t help it
being immediately understood.
~~~
garmaine
Also, maybe shows your dyslexia.
------
Carpetsmoker
Entire articles and Twitter battles being fought over a simple _iota_ keyword.
Sometimes I think the software industry is deeply silly.
Actually, I think that a lot of the time.
------
superjan
Is it just me who thought this was about the itoa C function?
------
chronial
> By embarrassed I meant as when you are in a foreign country and you can’t
> remember the native words for please or thank you.
The reason why this is embarrassing is because it might imply a certain
disrespect for the country you are visiting. But neither does a programming
language and its community deserve the same level of respect as a country and
its people, nor is the history of iota() comparable to knowing the word for
thank you.
No visitor to England should ever feel embarrassed in any meaning of the word
for not knowing why some food words have french origin and others don't. Nor
should they need to apologise for stating that they find that confusing.
------
shaklee3
While I don't really care what the history is, the name seems odd to me since
I thought it was itoa() at first. It seems too similar to a common function
(that nobody should use anymore).
------
rmrfrmrf
Being embarrassed isn't the same thing as telling someone they should be
embarrassed.
------
ups101
meanwhile, in crypto, a bullish trend is picking up speed:
[https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/iota/#charts](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/iota/#charts)
------
based2
New Testament: "until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will
pass from the Law" (Mt 5:18)
[https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/iota](https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/iota)
[https://superuser.com/questions/841439/excel-auto-fill-a-
col...](https://superuser.com/questions/841439/excel-auto-fill-a-column-with-
increment?lq=1)
~~~
stochastic_monk
My first context for iota was biblical, and I’ve used it as an expression my
whole life (e.g., “Not one iota”). I was surprised to see it in STL, but after
learning its history, I’ve been happy to use it in my code without mocking it.
| {
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GameStop opening Deus Ex boxes, removing free OnLive game code - sp332
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/08/report-gamestop-opening-deus-ex-copies-removing-free-game-code.ars
======
dotBen
Digital distribution is coming, whether GameStop like it or not. Removing the
free codes for OnLive is not going to stem the tide.
For proprietary media like Playstation, XBox, etc they're going to be
disintermediated whether they like it or not. They still can win in the PC
arena.
So rather than acquiring strategically pointless startups like casual gaming
site Kongregate, they'd be wise to ramp up their efforts to compete with Steam
or even acquire whole digital distribution + consumption stacks like OnLive
itself.
Competing with Steam is more a relationship challenge than a technical one,
and of all companies GameStop is well placed with those existing
relationships.
The downfall of Blockbuster should have proved that they need to change a long
time ago.
~~~
anurag
_So rather than acquiring strategically pointless startups like casual gaming
site Kongregate, they'd be wise to ramp up their efforts to compete with Steam
or even acquire whole digital distribution + consumption stacks like OnLive
itself._
They've already acquired companies to directly compete with both OnLive and
Steam: [http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/01/gamestop-details-plans-
fo...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/01/gamestop-details-plans-for-impulse-
and-spawn-labs-says-its-be/)
~~~
pyre
Yes. This seems more like an anti-competitive move to protect their own move
into digital distribution.
~~~
Splines
.. and seems completely unnecessary. In some ways Impulse is better than
Steam, and I really hope they try to continue to improve the service.
------
zinkem
I spent several years of my life at GameStop, and I miss it.
I was hired long before the EB/GameStop merger and watched as the company
adopted EB's culture. GameStop was a bottom-up company, and EB was a top-down
company. Much more authoritarian in its management, and saw the customer more
like a piece of meat.
In the years just after the merger, I watched morale fall as the "scratch
protection" plans became a priority, trade prices plummeted, and we stopped
stocking PC games in several stores. They replaced GameStop's functional, DOS-
based POS and adopted EB's slow, windows version. The transition was terrible,
and the company seemed deaf to the complaints that holiday lines were getting
longer and longer as they added features to an already slow and bloated
system.
I quit and returned to school a couple years after the merger, it was the
right decision, of course.
I loved my time at GameStop. I built a community around the store I managed
and did everything I could to do right by the customer. I knew several
managers (on both sides) who were as dedicated as I was to this goal. The
culture at corporate was focused on marketing and was in no way supportive of
this goal, and I'm saddened to see what they've become. But it was probably
inevitable.
The comments here are pretty disdainful, and I definitely understand why. But
there are a lot of good people working in the trenches that deserve thanks for
what they've done for their customers.
------
wccrawford
I'd like to say that I'm amazed that GameStop would steal from their
customers, but they haven't been the bastions of honesty that I'd like to
think they were.
So no, I'm not amazed.
If they were honest, they'd either send the boxes back to the manufacturer and
ask for ones that didn't have the codes, or leave them intact. Stealing
something out of the box, then wrapping it up like it's new and selling it...
That's just dishonest.
~~~
kodablah
Or if they were honest, they could at least get a statement from Square Enix
accepting blame for mis-packaging.
~~~
rexf
That would not be honest at all. Putting in a redeemable game voucher for On-
Live was not "accidentally packed" into each game. Square-Enix came to an
agreement with On-Live to include On-Live digital copies.
I'm amazed at how Gamestop doesn't even try to lie or spin their way out. They
state, "Square Enix packed a competitor’s coupon within the PC version of Deus
Ex: Human Revolution without our prior knowledge and we did pull these
coupons."
~~~
wccrawford
No, initially they would not comment on it, despite the fact that people knew
it was going on. It wasn't until they realized the internet had ahold of it
like a rabid dog that they decided to talk. At that point, they had no choice
but to tell the truth.
Don't give them points for following the only course they had open to them.
------
yock
Is this even their prerogative? Presumably, Square Enix would have partnered
directly with OnLive and made some contractual arrangement to include the
promotion in their product packaging. I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I can't
imagine this being within GameStop's rights.
~~~
mortenjorck
Eidos could quite possibly have a case for tortious interference; consumers
could for deceptive trade practices:
<http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/08/gamestop-onlive/>
------
adelevie
I'll use this story next time I explain net neutrality to anyone. "Think what
GameStop is doing is bad? Imagine your ISP engaging in similar practices."
------
srbloom
Gamestop may have Streisand effected themselves. I hadn't heard of OnLive
before today but will probably try it out tonight.
~~~
sad
Indeed, if you haven't tried it yet then you absolutely should. I highly
recommend Just Cause 2, it's a huge game and it plays perfectly. You can play
any game for 30 minutes without spending a penny.
Disclaimer: I wish I was an investor.
~~~
marvin
YES. I'm actually really sad that I'm unable to invest money in the huge
expansion that's happening in the software industry right now. Due to
Sarbanes-Oxley, this entire industrial development is completely off-limits to
regular Joe investors. It sucks to be aware of this and not be able to do
anything about it.
There are many reasons why this is bad, first and foremost that this is where
a lot of the action is right now and those of us with less than 10 million
available to invest are stuck investing in only the rest of the economy.
Which, from what I gather from the news, is pretty mismanaged in the US.
After trying out OnLive for 5 minutes even without playing, it is obvious that
this is the future for most gamers.
~~~
Cushman
Thirded. If I could put money in any company today, it'd be OnLive.
------
vectorpush
GameStop's lack of scruples: not surprising. GameStop fears OnLive as a
substantial threat: a little surprising. Internet speeds for the majority of
Americans are just way too slow for OnLive to be viable.
~~~
tatsuke95
But unless we have some bizarre infrastructure regression, it only becomes
more viable in time.
It (or something like it) is the future, there's no doubt about that.
~~~
eropple
Requirements will also increase, though, and the biggest problem with OnLive
can only be fixed by raising the speed of light.
~~~
jergason
Requirements increasing will only mean they have to upgrade their computers in
a data center somewhere, not that the ping between the server and you needs to
get faster. The delay is noticeable, but games requiring more processing power
will have no effect on the time it takes OnLive to send you data.
~~~
eropple
Of course, but even that's a nontrivial task. OnLive's game machines target
somewhere around "low-middle"; the quality isn't even console-level. They buy
machines that are close to the first to be obsoleted by the upgrade march, so
there'll always be the "damn, that plays like ass on OnLive" problem for new
releases.
When you couple pretty poor quality with persistent, noticeable latency, you
do not have a recipe for success.
~~~
regularfry
It'll only take one AAA publisher with a deep marketing budget to sink a
couple of million into dedicated OnLive servers for a new title for that
problem to go away. Maybe that's what they're banking on.
~~~
vectorpush
I'm not so sure. To make an impact it would have to be a very popular IP
designed with OnLive's stack in mind coupled with platform exclusivity (at
least at launch). The problem I see for OnLive is that their target
demographic (gamers who purchase AAA titles) are the consumers who are most
critical of performance issues. If OnLive were serving up content to casual
gamers, the service's shortcomings would be less of an obstacle, but I just
don't see how they're going to get tech-aware consumers to jump on board.
~~~
regularfry
There's another angle, though: while the control round-trip might be hideous
on OnLive, the inter-user round-trip is negligible; presumably everyone will
be sitting on the same gigabit (or better) LAN. Games currently have to pull
all sorts of tricks to make the inter-user latency appear not to be present.
They've got good enough that generally you just don't notice. I think the same
thing will happen here, although I admit that nobody's demonstrated that
they're capable of surmounting the technical challenge, and I doubt it's as
simple as tweaking #defines in the network stack.
~~~
eropple
It's a lot easier for a game to let you shoot at where your client-side
prediction thinks the guy is supposed to be than to allow players to react to
things that happened before their input for a given time tick was processed.
What you're saying is nontrivial and may not even be workable, because it's
impossible to really separate "stupid slow player" from "player whose latency
is high enough that he can't react".
------
chaostheory
> For now, if you absolutely must buy the game from a GameStop location,
> either make sure the game is sealed, or check for the coupon before leaving
> the location.
I used to work at one in HS. It's really easy to reseal a package with shrink
wrap.
~~~
nlawalker
Me too! The heat gun shrink wrap is cool stuff, but it's obviously not the
factory-fresh stuff (nicely folded cellophane gift wrap) to anyone who's
purchased a new game in the last few years. Plus, there's also a box seal
inside the wrap anyways.
------
lawnchair_larry
This is the same company that will buy used games for $2 and sell them for
MSRP minus $3 or so, then try to sell "scratch insurance" as an attachment.
I don't play a lot of games, but every time I do pick one up (since GameStop
is virtually the only remaining B&M game store in many places), it hasn't been
a consumer-friendly experience.
------
rickdale
In my area, GameStop is the only place that has a wide selection of used games
on the cheap. Some times its nice to blow $100 on video games and end up with
5 titles rather 2.
I will admit I would never buy a new game from GameStop. One time when I
wanted to purchase PES 2011 they tried to sell me a brand new game with the
packaging teared off. This disturbed me quite a bit. When I tried to explain
to the manager it was the same thing as a used game to me at that point he
didn't accept my argument. I bet they do this more than it gets reported.
~~~
jerf
Amazon works pretty well for this now, and the catalog is far deeper than any
Gamestop's. It's even easy to sell your own stuff there through a variety of
mechanisms.
------
kin
I'm not surprised that this doesn't surprise anyone. So many fall victim to
unethical practices from Gamestop, the worst I think being selling used re-
shrink-wrapped games as New.
In other news, digital distribution to me makes sense i.e. Steam, and full
downloads direct to console HD and the like, but it just isn't a large enough
market share yet IMO. These games are humongous it's kind of pain to keep
running out of disk space, at least as things stand currently.
~~~
Ralith
I'm a bit confused. When is hard drive space a problem? With digital
distribution, you can redownload at whim, and with discs, you can reinstall at
(slightly less convenient) whim.
~~~
rexf
Agreed, HD space on personal computer isn't the limiting factor.
Slow broadband speed and download caps would limit your ability to download
games over and over.
~~~
kin
I mean on a console, not a personal computer. We're talking digital
distribution of software onto game consoles, with Steam and PC, it's easy.
But, with say PSN and Xbox Live, I'm not alone when I say that I have trouble
managing space and dealing with download times. I'd rather buy a hard copy of
the game.
------
nathos
Amusingly enough, the new Deus Ex is a Steamworks game
[<http://steampowered.com/steamworks/retailsupport.php>] and it requires Steam
to be installed to play it.
Removing the OnLive coupon may hide one (small) competitor, but does nothing
to stop GameStop's real competition in the PC space.
------
dismalist
Is this legal?
------
JMiao
well, that's one way to build a moat.
------
kragen
Can Square Enix sue GameStop for trademark infringement or something? Opening
trademarked boxes and removing things that the customer is presumably paying
for, without notifying the customer, sounds illegal to me. If you did the same
with boxes of Legos, what would the result be?
~~~
rmc
Trademark law wouldn't apply here.
~~~
kragen
Presumably "Deus Ex" is Square Enix's trademark, no? If GameStop is passing
off what's left after they tamper with the box as _Deus Ex Whatever_ ,
wouldn't that be trademark infringement?
~~~
dsl
You are pretty much saying "Well the earth has gravity, so gravity must apply
here." No, trademark has nothing to do with this.
If anything, right of first sale (remember GameStop buys games in bulk from
publishers) protects them.
~~~
kragen
I didn't realize there was a "right of first sale" in trademark law (obviously
I'm not a lawyer) but what Wikipedia says about it is this:
> With reference to trade in tangible merchandise, such as the retailing of
> goods bearing a trademark, the "first sale" rule serves to immunize a
> reseller from infringement liability. Such protection to the reseller
> extends to the point where said goods have not been altered so as to be
> materially different from those originating from the trademark owner.
It seems to me that removing coupons from the box is "altering goods so as to
be materially different from those originating from the trademark owner".
~~~
corin_
An OnLive coupon is absoolutely nothing to do with the trademark it is a
seperate item that happens to come with it. They may have broken their
contract, we don't know, but this has absolutely nothing to do with
trademarks.
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Plangrid (YC W12) Builds A New Market For The iPad: The Construction Industry - rsuttongee
http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/02/plangrid-builds-a-new-market-for-the-ipad-the-construction-industry/
======
reneherse
Very very exciting! Assuming a thoroughly brilliant execution, I'm certain
that this app will find its fans amongst all groups within the design-build
chain. Architects, construction managers, general contractors and trades. Even
building owners and maintenance managers, perhaps.
I haven't tried the app, but having worked in both architecture and
construction and now as a UX designer, I'm quite familiar with the problems it
addresses. One of the biggest challenges on a construction project (even a
small one) is document control and management. Though most work in
architectural offices is done on computers, paper plans remain the final
method of output of construction information, and this causes numerous
problems.
Of course there is the cost of printing that the article mentions, but that's
only one of several inefficiencies. A little background for those unfamiliar
with construction: First, traditional prints are cumbersome, so they're
difficult to pull out and reference in any kind of adverse field conditions.
Large sheets of paper do not mix well with wind or rain. Even in good weather
or indoors they're a pain to carry around and handle, so they tend to spend
most of their time in the truck or trailer, often away from where they're
really needed. To make them easier to carry, construction managers often make
their own smaller photocopies of portions of the plans, which compounds the
second big problem: keeping the documents up to date.
On a large project, keeping everyone's documents up to date is a nightmare.
The more subcontractors you have, the bigger the nightmare becomes. And if you
have a fast-track or rapidly evolving design-build situation, the problem is
further compounded by compressed schedules. When plans or specifications are
out of date, estimations are off and things get built incorrectly. You get
waste, increased project costs, and the occasional lost shirt. One of my
mentors used to destroy on sight any out of date documents he found people
carrying. This app should be a much more elegant solution.
Essentially, paper plans are so difficult to manage that they waste a huge
amount of time and sometimes result in errors. They're a centuries old, paper-
based data bank and info graphic. So it's easy to see how this app could not
only save time and money, but also increase quality and accuracy of what gets
built: The people doing the work will have convenient access to the right
information at the right time, through plans and other forms of location-based
information on a device that's easy to carry.
Further, the ability to notate and communicate right from the UI has the
potential to fix one of the frequently broken feedback loops in the design-
build process: communication between builder and architect about unexpected
field conditions or difficulties with the current design. I have no idea about
the road map for the app, but there's a lot of potential here. Imagine you're
able to share screens and stream video or still images back to the architect
about something needing clarification, and have her be able to sketch on the
plans in real time. Then the changes can be saved as a draft copy, ported back
to the drafting software, modifications made and reissued as an official
document (and even change orders) in a matter of minutes. The potential for
this to speed construction and increase quality is not to be under-estimated.
As a designer, I'm very curious about the UI of the app and how well the UX is
adapted to the needs of folks in the field. Because there are just so many
variations on the use case, so many different ways that building plans are
used by different people in the process. And, there is _one_ advantage to the
size of traditional printed plans. Their bigness, at times, can be a virtue
when you're trying to get an understanding of the overall layout of building,
and extract key dimensions from it. Of course zooming in and out is how this
is handled on monitors when drafting, but I suspect the problem is a little
different on an iPad size screen, the solution needing to be a little more
creative to convey the needed information.
Phew, thinking about the possibilities of this app is exhilarating, and my
apologies if my post is overly long. Congrats to the founding team for
identifying and working to solve such a significant missing piece in the chain
of the construction process! :)
~~~
Anechoic
Folks have been talking about tablets being a natural fit for the construction
market, and frankly I don't see it (at least for field work. Construction
sites are nasty places - dust, concrete, bentonite, slurries, oil & grease,
rain, snow, heat these are not good things for an expensive tablet to be
around.
Furthermore, the trades guys are hard are their equipment. When it's time to
go to lunch, stuff gets thrown in the trunk bed or on the passenger seat of
the truck as they rush off. Even if a tablet survives the abuse, those guys
rarely lock or raise the windows of their trucks on the job, so I wouldn't
expect the tablet to be there when the contractor gets back from his break.
_First, traditional prints are cumbersome, so they're difficult to pull out
and reference in any kind of adverse field conditions. Large sheets of paper
do not mix well with wind or rain._
This is true, but it's offset by their disposable nature. If I'm heading out
to the field and I know there is going to be inclement weather, I bring a
couple of copies and if one sheet gets destroyed by weather, oh well, I just
break out my second copy.
And while large sheets can be cumbersome, they allow field workers to look at
a small component of a plan in an overall larger context which can be very
convenient (that's why the minimum size I typically deal with on a site is
11x17). On a 10-inch tablet, you can only do that by zooming and panning a lot
and that's not nearly as useful.
I've been wrong before and maybe I'm wrong now but I can't help thing that
this will be a frustrating experience for a lot of folks.
_keeping the documents up to date._
This is a very good point (nothing like getting an "as-built" that is not even
close to being accurate) but I don't think that offsets the downsides.
~~~
kennystone
>> This is a very good point but I don't think that offsets the downsides.
The downsides of out of date documents are 1% of the total cost of
construction. A project may have 1-3% margin for a GC, so this is an enormous
number. You save in three big ways with PlanGrid - we are cheaper than
printing, faster than dealing with paper for sharing and note taking, and
eliminate building from outdated drawings.
Our current set of users love having it in the field. We have superintendents
tell us they can't believe they are using an iPad everyday. They have all the
drawings all the time and they are always up to date - something people in the
field have never had before on large projects.
Several of our customers have purchased iPads just to use PlanGrid. It's true
that some will break, of course, but the cost savings offset it.
------
tyoung
There are tons of very obvious problems in many industries that are solvable
by software. The only problem is that great domain experts and great hackers
rarely overlap enough to do a startup together. It was a miracle that the four
of us found each other.
~~~
reneherse
Just read the "About" page on the PlanGrid site, and indeed your team does
seem to be a great combination of experts & hackers.
My background sort of puts me with one foot in either camp for this particular
problem set; it would be really cool to chat with you folks some time when I
make it out to the Bay Area.
BTW, how did you all come to find each other?
~~~
tyoung
3 of us went to school together, 2 of us worked together, 2 of us went to a
cello concert, not together. Its one of those tricky GRE math questions.
------
zmmz
I see that on your about page you mention only supporting PDFs.
As somebody frustrated by the lack of alternatives to Autodesk products,
seemingly due to the lock in by .DWG files[1] not being an open standard, I'd
be curious to hear your thoughts? Did you think about/try implementing the
file format? Do you have plans for others?
Last week, I told myself I'd give the OSS CAD programs a try, downloaded
LibreCAD and tried to open some architecture plans from my inbox. Could not
open. Then I read came across an excellent explanation of the problem of DWGs
in OSS[2], this is the most frustrated I've been for a while. The industry
standard is a proprietary file format with no published specifications.
[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwg> [2]:
[http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/whats-up-with-
dwg-a...](http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/whats-up-with-dwg-adoption-
in-free-software)
~~~
kennystone
Our approach is as practical as it can be - the actual builders need drawings
and the drawings are usually delivered in PDF. We've found very few of our
customers get the DWG files themselves, and even if they do, they are easily
exported to PDF.
~~~
zmmz
Makes sense.
I guess I just wanted a place to vent out my frustration with DWG :D.
The other comments in this thread make it very clear, you have a great
product. More industries need teams like yours.
~~~
ralphleon
I'm _so_ thankful that our customers don't want to deal with DWG files. I had
investigated it a bit for our original prototype... it was not pleasant.
------
mirsadm
Nice! That looks quite interesting. Is there any particular reason why the
iPad was targeted first? I wonder if Android would have been a better choice
because some manufacturers offer rugged tablets these days which seem like a
better fit for this industry.
~~~
kennystone
iPad is the dominant tablet platform (phones might have been different). We
may do Android eventually - our backend is written to support web and iOS
already.
~~~
mirsadm
It is the leader in sales but I'm not sure that will matter in this case. This
is domain specific so the choice of tablet is determined by the availability
of the software. Just my thoughts, great idea though :)
~~~
ralphleon
Thanks as well! We're waiting for a customer to actually request an android
tablet version. We're probably going to port our software in a "lite" version
to android focusing on the phone first then the tablet. Thankfully android
tablets work well with android phone apps (especially with ICS).
By the time we get around to this, we have our fingers crossed that google's
acquisition of Motorola begets a sweet android tablet from google directly.
~~~
mirsadm
Sounds like you guys have it sorted out. I bring up Android mostly because we
found lots of customers asking for specialized hardware (for military, police
and fire department contracts). They were really picky about that because the
guys using it were not very gentle. It is a different domain so the
requirements are not exactly the same.
------
sopooneo
I have to believe something like this already existed for pen based tablets.
And I believe that for real work, a tablet must have higher fidelity input
that can be achieve with fingertips.
------
samstave
This is interesting. As someone who works in this space (building hospitals)
we see a lot of trending movement to the iPad, though I question the longevity
of PDFs.
We have a software suite for the construction industry, which has modules for
inspection requests, punch-lists, occupancy planning (healthcare), room
completion (healthcare), room readiness (healthcare) etc.
We also have a service around providing custom reports... however, we find
that the need for dynamic data trumps the ability to simply view the latest
plan digitally, i.e. we provide the ability to run a dynamic report on all
inspections scheduled, performed, outstanding, etc... As well as the need to
run a report that would "Show me all the rooms that have a Medication
Dispensation Unit, on level two and assigned to unit Med Surge" - which
outputs a colorized visio (or ZUI iPad floorplan).
The future is in granularity of reporting, rather than just blanket display,
and I think this is a great step. Especially if you have many trades begining
to use it. There is no reason the trades can't run multiple apps for specific
purposes.
Although, I am not sure I agree with one number in the article; "For $1MM in
construction, you can have as much as $3,500 in printing" -- I am only
skeptical as I work on projects in the hundreds of millions (1.5B, 850MM,
800MM 100MM are the budgets for my (personally) active projects) I dont see
them spending 3MM on printing for the 850MM project... but I might just not be
privy to the numbers from every trade.
Here is an example of a dynamic room category report for an active project
here in SF. We colorize the rooms based on type/use to familiarize the org
with the spaces <http://i.imgur.com/2DRah.jpg> \- We do a great deal more with
the data and reports, this is just an example of many that the orgs use.
Hospital transition planning is very complex, and costly. The vitals of the
facility change a lot through the life of the project. The issue with
educating THOUSANDS of people in prep for opening day such that they can
SAFELY receive their first patient is critical.
Being able to very quickly synthesize and summarize vast amounts of
information makes for a better, more successful project and a better, more
educated and prepared staff.
Remember that while there are hundreds of people on a project team, there are
thousands of people on the facility staff who are expected to move into the
facility day-one and not cause fatal mistakes.
A project I am doing in Texas is 1.5MM square feet and dynamic, item-level
granularity reporting is going to be key in the smooth success of the project.
I would love to see what PlanGrid can offer such large projects - and while I
am a full proponent of the iPad in the field, in an industry where cost is
king, I'd like to better understand how they convince construction companies
of the ROI - esp. when tools and materials walk of the job all the time.
I think that Plangrid should talk to the designers (not just architects) as
well; RTKL, Mazzetti, TEECOM, RLS, SMWM, SFM, etc...
If PlanGrid (love the name) wants to talk to me - my email is in my profile.
~~~
rsuttongee
For us, the ROI on any project - but particularly large projects - is pretty
simple: An iPad ($800) plus 3 years of PlanGrid ($1500 for the big plan) is
almost always cheaper than the initial half-size set of thousands of drawings
(a hospital project Tracy was on spent $2700 per planholder set of 3000
sheets), but when you add in the printing cost of MEPF coordination drawings,
fabrication drawings, point-load drawings, deck-insert drawings, seismic
bracing drawings, P&ID drawings, submittal shop drawings and the constant
deluge of change order and supplemental sheets it's a huge money saver.
We are cheaper than just the printing costs alone, but our real value-add
comes from the huge reduction in document control hours we bring. This,
combined with our ability to mitigate the risk of building off outdated
information, makes a huge win for almost every project if you do the math.
~~~
samstave
I'd be interested to see what the differential between 2D and BIM projects is.
Let me give you a concrete example; a hospital here in SF that is building a
new facility has spent 30+ million dollars on coordination and
constructability issues between all the trades.
There was far less printing of plans than there was hours spent coordinating
the BIM model for changes.
Now, granted, this wasa project where there was an oversight in the design as
it pertained to the owners intent and a number of critical technology spaces
required were left out of the design.
This resulted in many hours of coordination efforts from all the trades to get
these spaces into the facility, but a fraction of this was in printing.
If you can help with this problem, coordination, you have a much larger
market.
The current industry trend is to err on the side of digital design and
coordination meetings with IPD models, and reduce printing and field
interference issues.
What might be an interesting opportunity for your service is to notify trades
when changes occur that may affect them. THEN show them the new, updated PDF.
I don't know how this would occur -- other than the pushing of a
constructability log or something....
Also, it would make sense that your app is much more focused on a the smaller
project (HUGE market) of residential, smaller commercial etc..
Trying to force yourselves into solving the issues of massive scale projects
may be suicide.
~~~
rsuttongee
I agree that BIM is totally transforming constructability reviews and
massively reducing MEP conflicts with clash-detection etc.
The problem is, after all this 3D BIM work, how does that information get to
the field? What are the actual workers building off of?
Paper. Outdated, expensive, paper. THATS the problem we are solving. Big
projects, little projects, they all use paper, they all pay waaaay too much
for paper, and they all have trouble keeping it up to date.
~~~
samstave
Sure, but do you expect the 500+ builders onsite on any given day to have a
fragile $800 device with a screen size less than 8.5x11" as their primary
interface to information?
I don't think that is realistic.
Others are working on augmented reality interfaces to provide that updated
information. Where a set of glasses connected through the construction wifi
network would provide the needed updates.
Sure, there is a much larger technical issue there WRT engineering a solution,
but the fact of the matter is that paper is actually a cheap way of conveying
a vast amount of information VERY efficiently.
They can write and scribble and troubleshoot on the plans.
There is a LOT more information to present on 30x42.
Their batteries wont die.
Training people to absorb information off plans is thousands of years
developed, efficient and CHEAP.
I think that granularity of message is important - and I think you can really
excel here.
Rather than presenting the whole plan on PDF - tell them EXACTLY what they
need to know BY ROOM/BY LOCATION that pertains to them at that moment.
I'd like you to see the Inspection Request Module that we have to understand
this; where on a PDF/Visio of a plan an inspector can just trace out the walls
that they inspected in the field at that time. This finger-trace gets captured
and recorded. Then synthesized into the colorized maps I showed aboved so that
the whole project team can run reports on status of the project (you can also
run reports that show which trades are succeeding and which are behind in
every aspect of deliverables... sometimes you just need to fire a plumbing
contractor because they keep failing inspections)
Anyway - paper is not always bad. It is an extremely efficient method of
conveying information.
You need to preempt the NEED for paper, not reduce it on the back-end. This is
what BIM and coordination and IPD are all about. Reducing back-end paper and
change-orders.
Paper is not what is bad, bad information is what is bad. Eliminate bad
information you eliminate waste.
LEAN processes are good.
~~~
reneherse
>I think that granularity of message is important - and I think you can really
excel here. > >Rather than presenting the whole plan on PDF - tell them
EXACTLY what they need to know BY ROOM/BY LOCATION that pertains to them at
that moment. >
_This._
In my former life as an architectural designer and project manager for a
design-build firm, we experimented with creating document sets that provided
this level of room-by-room information. The documents were color printouts on
11x17 sheets, folded and contained in a binder. 160,000 SF remodel. Labor
intensive to say the least, and only possible at all because we were doing
mostly finish work.
But an app could make this level of granularity practical. The advantages to
all stages of construction are numerous, from takeoffs to punch lists and
inspection.
------
iRobot
At first glance I thought it was referring to a rival for the itunes
marketplace for jailbroken ipads...
..but who would want to do that! Silly me!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged from a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan (Updated) - nextalt
https://project-evidence.github.io/
======
rolph
>>An earlier version of this document referred to us as "Project
E.P.S.T.E.I.N." (Evidence Plausibly Supporting Theories Explaining Infection
Naturality). It was intended be a humorous backronym. After receiving feedback
from several readers, we have decided to change our name to "Project E"<<
this new project title could also be taken as an insinuation
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902747](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902747)
I can see someone has spent a bit of time with this particular site, however
no authoritative conclusions are provided, leaving the reader to make
inferences that may or may not be a product of critical thought
------
swagonomixxx
Has anyone actually read this full webpage?
It seems legit, but I feel like we need an independent group of scientists
that are familiar with this particular area of research to tell me whether
this is actually legit or just seemingly legit.
------
throwaway888abc
What a coincidence
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: We Opened Up Our Transcription Tool - braindead_in
Audio/video transcription tools are quite rudimentary. The audio player is separate from the editor which makes it very cumbersome cross-reference between the audio and the text.<p>Our transcription editor solves this problem. It provides the audio and a fully featured text editor on a single interface and tightly couples both of them. Jumping to any position in the audio causes the cursor to move correspondingly, and vice-versa.<p>https://scribie.com/tools/transcription-editor<p>The editor is built on Ace Editor and the audio player flash or native.<p>All standard features are there, with some advanced ones. One feature is text analysis. It performs a trigram match followed by a TF-IDF analysis which highlights the new terms and phrases in the transcript. Those are the most likely places for mistakes.<p>We have been using this tool for the past two years internally and now have opened it up for everyone. Please do try it out once.<p>Thanks in advance!
======
braindead_in
clickable: [https://scribie.com/tools/transcription-
editor](https://scribie.com/tools/transcription-editor)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Order of Magnitude Physics Material - nickb
http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sanjoy/oom/
======
mhartl
I love this stuff! Sanjoy wrote his brilliant Ph.D. thesis based partially on
an Order of Magnitude Physics course taught at Caltech by Sterl Phinney (his
advisor) and Peter Goldreich. He is a brilliant teacher and this material is a
goldmine of good ideas. (Full disclosure: Sanjoy and I taught Physics 1
together at Caltech, and Sterl was my advisor as well.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Secret government plans leaked: UK manhunt for "George Orwell" - microkernel
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.der-postillon.com%2F2013%2F08%2Fgeheime-regierungsplane-geleakt.html
======
sehugg
Might mention that the website in question is satire...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Fast Supper (Calorie Restriction) - eru
http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=The+Fast+Supper&expire=&urlID=30475243&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnymag.com%2Fnymag%2Ffeatures%2F23169%2F&partnerID=73272
======
DanielStraight
Original: <http://nymag.com/nymag/features/23169/>
| {
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} |
Corporate CEOs have failed to engage with startups - ekpyrotic
https://venturebeat.com/2017/04/30/corporate-ceos-have-failed-to-engage-with-startups/#article-masthead
======
cal2016
"First, we know that tech, innovation, and R&D departments themselves do not
have enough exposure to the top team. In fact, only 34 percent of CIOs report
directly to the CEO, according to the latest survey from Harvey Nash/KPMG."
I think this is the key problem. In many corporates, from my experience, the
CEO doesn't have any facetime at all with the technology and innovation team.
It's hard for them, then, to speak credibly to startups.
How do we fix this? More CEO appointments from the CTO ranks?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
25 Great Talks from the Atlanta Ruby Users Group - vanstee
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqZY2tk6rSRn2Vapk2raOTFjXGiDbpQUU
======
vanstee
If you're in Atlanta and want to say hi, our next meetup is this Wednesday
(July 9th)
[http://www.meetup.com/atlantaruby/events/183306632/](http://www.meetup.com/atlantaruby/events/183306632/)
| {
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NIST reopens draft recommendation on random number generation for comment [pdf] - healsjnr1
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistbul/itlbul2013_09_supplemental.pdf
======
lmgftp
It should probably be noted that this is not some sort of validation to the
fact that "the NSA owns this particular DRBG".
Surprisingly (to me), this is merely a signal of a government agency that
takes public perception to heart and issues a vote of not-complete-confidence
in standards it has previous prescribed, and today is seeking to rectify the
problem by looking for nothing up my sleeve numbers [0] agreed upon by
security researchers and the public at large. A smart move, no doubt a
difficult one to make, as even the slightest suggestion of no-confidence in a
prescribed standard is quite damaging to the reputation of an institution
devoted to maintaining reliable standards.
More info on nothing-up-my-sleeve: [0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_up_my_sleeve_number](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_up_my_sleeve_number)
~~~
tlrobinson
Somewhat off topic, but it seems like it would be better to use some future
unpredictable events to really remove any "nothing up my sleeve" doubt. e.x.
hash of the sum of all S&P 500 companies' closing stock prices on a specific
future date.
~~~
rspeer
I assume you need _some_ flexibility in choosing a nothing-up-my-sleeve
number, in case the first number you try has properties that are bad for the
algorithm.
Imagine if the super-official, international standard nothing-up-my-sleeve
number was 1. Any time you need consistent but arbitrary bits in a
cryptographic algorithm, they must be ...000000000000001. That doesn't sound
like it would work very well.
~~~
johnsoft
In that case, you announce a reroll, along with a published paper explaining
that x^1 == x. But, assuming you use SHA-256 or higher, the chances of that
happening are less than one over the number of atoms in the observable
universe, so you shouldn't worry about it the same way you don't worry about
hash collisions happening purely by chance.
------
cromwellian
I doubt the NIST will ever be trusted again as any standards or specs they are
in favor of will be immediately suspected of having some favorable
vulnerability for the NSA.
Let's say they hold a contest for people to submit next generation
cryptosystems, and that Algorithms A,B, and C make it to the final. If the
NIST publishes critical remarks on A and C and seems to favor B, immediate
skepticism and red flags will be raised. Does B have a hidden weakness the NSA
knows about?
A standards organization can only run on its transparency and integrity.
~~~
tptacek
First, a lot of NIST crypto standards are relatively anodyne; for instance,
the NIST GCM standard basically just explains how to do multiplication in
GF(2^128), and the NIST CTR mode standard just lays out a bunch of ways you
can arrange your counter block. Those standards remain valuable and aren't
likely to harbor backdoors.
Second, it has _always_ been the case that favorable responses from the USG in
general and NSA in particular have cast a pall over proposed standards. Isn't
that why there's a RIPEMD160, for instance?
~~~
rdtsc
Yes but whenever NSA "suggests" changes such as certain constants or like
classic S-boxes from DES. Those don't usually come with a clear explanation,
more like "here makes these change, it will be better, trust us" kind of idea.
Another point is that most people (especially non-US citizens) don't
necessarily view NSA and NIST as separate. They are seen as part of the same
government. More like 2 offices in the same government department.
Now this also brings about an interesting thing I have been thinking about.
NSA is also in charge of protecting its own data. So recommendations,
practices and policies they tweak go into keeping its (and other agencies')
classified data secure.
Given that they have managed to "tweak" and insert backdoors in some
algorithms or systems, how likely they are to recommend those systems for its
own and other government agency use? Do they want the communication or keys to
the nuclear launch sites to use the "tweaked" version. They would need to have
an pretty good feel that no other agency out there has also figured out the
back door.
~~~
lambda
That's why the generally design the backdoor so that it's based on a key that
only they have.
For example, with Dual EC DRBG, researchers discovered that it would be
possible to create the constants based on another constant, with which you
could predict the output easily. But without prior knowledge of that constant,
it would be an infeasible brute-force search to find it.
Likewise, previous publicly known backdoors like the one in the export version
of Lotus Notes depended on a key that the NSA had. There it was even simpler,
and not obfuscated; it would just encrypt a portion of the session key with
the NSA's public key, which they could decrypt and the easily brute-force the
rest of the session key.[1]
The NSA doesn't want to make security weak against arbitrary attackers, they
just want to give themselves the keys.
[1]: [http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/hacks/lotus-nsa-
key.html](http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/hacks/lotus-nsa-key.html)
~~~
rdtsc
Ah, it makes sense now. Thank you for explaining it.
------
lifthrasiir
Background:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG)
> Dual_EC_DRBG or Dual Elliptic Curve Deterministic Random Bit Generator is a
> controversial pseudorandom number generator (PRNG) designed and published by
> the National Security Agency. [...] Shortly after the NIST publication, it
> was suggested that the RNG could be a kleptographic NSA backdoor.
~~~
tptacek
It's an awfully weird trojan horse --- or, as Daniel Franke put it on Twitter,
a trojan platypus.
First: NIST RNG designs aren't particularly important (unlike the curve
standards); there is a broad diversity of CSPRNG designs, applications tend to
"borrow" the OS's, and no OS I know of uses a design taken directly from NIST.
Second: Dual EC DRBG is a CSPRNG that uses elliptic curve point
multiplications; in other words, it requires bignum math. If you're unfamiliar
with CSPRNG design: that's not a normal requirement. Dual EC is very slow.
Nobody would willingly use it.
Why would _that_ be the big NSA standard back door? I'm not saying it isn't.
Something hinky happened there. I'm just asking: what did they have to gain
from trying to backdoor _that_ standard?
~~~
lambda
> It's an awfully weird trojan horse --- or, as Daniel Franke put it on
> Twitter, a trojan platypus.
Heh, that is a pretty good term for it.
> no OS I know of uses a design taken directly from NIST.
Except for all of the pressure recently on the Linux kernel developers to use
Intel's RdRand directly rather than mixing it into their existing entropy pool
(see, for example,
[https://plus.google.com/117091380454742934025/posts/SDcoemc9...](https://plus.google.com/117091380454742934025/posts/SDcoemc9V3J)
and [https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/9/5/212](https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/9/5/212)),
where apparently the reason is "Customers want a SP800-90 source available
through the OS interface" (quote from David Johnston, designer of the RdRand
hardware, on the Google Plus link).
So, apparently there is a lot of pressure to get the OS to adopt the NIST
standards directly.
There are lots of reasons for this kind of pressure. Obviously, if you sell to
the government, it'll be easier if you follow the NIST standards. There are
likely lots of other compliance related reasons you would want to, such as
encryption requirements for HIPAA. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those
standards either required or were easier to comply with if you just used NIST
approved algorithms, and it's easiest to use those NIST algorithms systemwide
if the OS CSPRNG uses them (and directly, without extra unapproved random
number generation on top).
> Second: Dual EC DRBG is a CSPRNG that uses elliptic curve point
> multiplications; in other words, it requires bignum math. If you're
> unfamiliar with CSPRNG design: that's not a normal requirement. Dual EC is
> very slow. Nobody would willingly use it.
Yes, this is the odd part. On the other hand, you do have to recall that the
NSA is a big government bureaucracy. It may be that their SIGINT enablement
department (the one that's responsible for weakening exportable crypto,
planting backdoors, and the like) had promised to get some backdoors into
widely used standards, but couldn't find a better way to do so surreptitiously
and effectively without weakening security against foreign attackers as well.
It may be that Dual EC DRBG was just inserted so they could check off a box
and continue to get funding for the standards body division of SIGINT
enablement, and not as an actually realistic attack.
~~~
jrochkind1
> _but couldn 't find a better way to do so surreptitiously and effectively
> without weakening security against foreign attackers as well._
Have we seen any evidence that the NSA cares _at all_ about avoiding
"weakening security against foreign attackers" in their quest to weak security
against themselves as attackers?
Aren't they _neccesarily_ weakening security against foreign attackers when
they intentionally weaken crypto, which we now know they do?
~~~
lambda
> Aren't they _neccesarily_ weakening security against foreign attackers when
> they intentionally weaken crypto, which we now know they do?
No. In fact, most of the schemes that we know about in which they have tried
to weaken crypto have involved them having some secret key which can be used
to crack it, but without which you don't have a better attack than the
standard brute-force attack.
That's the case with Dual EC DRBG. What researches discovered was that the
constants in it could have been picked such that with knowledge of a secret
constant, you can predict future output given only a relatively small amount
of past output. Without knowing those constants beforehand, you wouldn't be
able to do better than brute force.
Previous attempts have been similar; the Clipper Chip was supposed to have
strong crypto, but store a master key in escrow with the NSA that they could
use to crack it. Lotus Notes would encrypt part of the session key with a
public key, for which the NSA had a corresponding private key, so if the NSA
wanted to eavesdrop they could decrypt that and use it to speed up the brute-
forcing process[1].
So, there are numerous cases of the NSA trying to balance the need for crypto
that is strong for other attackers, while leaving them a backdoor that only
they can use.
1: [http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/hacks/lotus-nsa-
key.html](http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/hacks/lotus-nsa-key.html)
------
pdknsk
This should be upvoted instead, as it provides context, and also links to this
PDF (or its official announcement).
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6364340](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6364340)
Or to provide minimum context, the announcement should've been submitted
instead.
[http://nist.gov/director/cybersecuritystatement-091013.cfm](http://nist.gov/director/cybersecuritystatement-091013.cfm)
------
Wingman4l7
For those curious _(as I was)_ as to what the heck that title means, the press
release linked deals with The National Institute of Standards and Technology
(NIST) and what kind of random number generators (RNGs) they recommend using.
~~~
seldo
Agreed, a rewording of the title to something a little more accessible would
not go amiss.
~~~
nitrogen
The terms EC-DRBG and NIST have come up quite a bit lately on HN with regards
to the NSA, so it's not unreasonable to use them to ensure a descriptive title
fits in the 80 characters allotted.
The other cryptic term, SP800-90a, looks like the issue number of an official
standard, like ISO-8859 or EIA/TIA-568.
------
brokenparser
Can anyone provide a mirror, please?
------
marshray
Here's my comment: This is the dumbest PRNG ever.
~~~
mpyne
Look up RANDU.
~~~
marshray
RANDU didn't claim to be cryptographically secure.
~~~
mpyne
Oh.
Well, in that case look up Debian's OpenSSL from a few years ago.
~~~
marshray
Debian's OpenSSL was a perfectly good PSEUDO RNG a.k.a. DRBG
~~~
mpyne
But it claimed to be a cryptographically secure one.
And I'm pretty sure even the NSA-adjusted EC PRNG standardized by NIST offers
more than 15 bits of security.
~~~
marshray
Debain's broken OpenSSL claimed to be a cryptographically secure _true_ random
number generator (CSRNG). But it ended up being seeded with only 15 bits of
entropy, so it failed in the true random part. Nevertheless, the _pseudo_
random number generator (CSPRNG, or as NIST calls it a DRBG) part of it still
sorta worked (I don't recall if you could successfully seed it manually).
But regardless of how you were planning to use it, if an adversary has a
backdoor in your PRNG/DRBG then it's not cryptographically secure (CS). That,
and this Dual EC contraption is probably much slower than a conventional
design.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Sample Chapter From "Ruby Best Practices" - sandal
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/329554
======
sandal
This chapter is basically the meta-programming / DSL stuff if not by that
name. It gives a good sampling of the overall feel for the book. Feedback is
very welcome. The book will be released under a CC license 9 months after it
hits the shelves, so it will eventually be an open community resource.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Video lectures of mathematics courses available online for free - llambda
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/54430/video-lectures-of-mathematics-courses-available-online-for-free
======
conroy
Instead of just watching lectures, I'd suggest taking one of the many
available math courses:
Coursera (23 courses)
[https://www.coursera.org/courses?orderby=upcoming&lngs=en&ca...](https://www.coursera.org/courses?orderby=upcoming&lngs=en&cats=math)
Udacity (5 courses)
[https://www.udacity.com/courses](https://www.udacity.com/courses)
edX (10 courses) [https://www.edx.org/course-
list/allschools/math/allcourses](https://www.edx.org/course-
list/allschools/math/allcourses)
~~~
kenferry
These aren't really swappable, though. The Coursera/Udacity/edX courses max
out around courses appropriate for freshmen, whereas those linked from math
overflow range from freshman year to graduate math courses.
~~~
conroy
I wonder if Coursera/Udacity/edX will catch up. I can't imagine there is much
demand for graduate level math courses on those sites.
------
lovelace_
For more recreational math, I tend to watch Numberphile:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/numberphile](https://www.youtube.com/user/numberphile)
There's also a more-recently launched Computerphile, which has some
interesting vids, as well:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/Computerphile](https://www.youtube.com/user/Computerphile)
------
dbpokorny
A general point: learning higher mathematics is still quite difficult today,
in part because there is a chasm between how easy it is for a computer to give
feedback when a student learns programming vs. how difficult it is for a
computer to give feedback when a student learns math. (In particular the
proof-checking part) Sadly, there is little incentive for anyone to develop
innovative teaching methods for, say, potential theory in the complex plane or
group representations in probability and statistics because these are not
considered "useful" beyond the academic realm and industry niches...
If any enterprising hackers happen to read this comment, please know that
there is a small but devoted community of amateur mathematicians who would be
overjoyed at the opportunity to spend some of their free time learning
esoteric branches of higher math with help from the computer, if only the
right tools were available...
------
gtani
my list of free Linear algebra PDF's, the ones from UC-Davis, UCLA Brown and
BYU are well done
[http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~anne/linear_algebra/](http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~anne/linear_algebra/)
[http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~linear/linear.pdf](http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~linear/linear.pdf)
[http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs485/2006sp/LinAlg_Comple...](http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs485/2006sp/LinAlg_Complete.pdf)
(Dawkins notes that were recently pulled off lamar.edu site, gentle intro like
Anton's)
[http://joshua.smcvt.edu/linearalgebra/](http://joshua.smcvt.edu/linearalgebra/)
[http://www.ee.ucla.edu/~vandenbe/103/reader.pdf](http://www.ee.ucla.edu/~vandenbe/103/reader.pdf)
[http://www.math.brown.edu/%7Etreil/papers/LADW/LADW.pdf](http://www.math.brown.edu/%7Etreil/papers/LADW/LADW.pdf)
[https://math.byu.edu/~klkuttle/Linearalgebra.pdf](https://math.byu.edu/~klkuttle/Linearalgebra.pdf)
______________
also the 2 books that a lot of physics students use, Boas and Arfken et al
(Links below are for older editions; buy one if they suit your needs)
[http://www.scribd.com/doc/65695685/Mary-L-Boas-
Mathematical-...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/65695685/Mary-L-Boas-Mathematical-
Methods-in-the-Physical-Sciences)
[http://www.scribd.com/doc/84183760/Arfken-G-B-Weber-H-J-
Math...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/84183760/Arfken-G-B-Weber-H-J-Mathematical-
Methods-for-Physicists-6ed-Elsevier-AP-s)
------
MaxGabriel
Is anyone else taking Coursera's currently running Linear Algebra with Python
course? I'd never studied linear algebra much before, so its hard for me to
evaluate it.
~~~
renanbirck
I have been taking it. So far I've found it pretty good (I took linear algebra
many years ago in college and didn't remember most of it), even though I don't
really like the amount of reinventing-the-wheel (e.g. writing your own vector
class) involved.
------
prabhus
I have been working on a startup idea for exactly this purpose. Something that
is much better than posting bunch of links on various places, bookmarks and
emails. Announcing CoLearnr - A platform where topics can be socially curated,
discussed and collaboratively learnt. Very happy to share the dev site since
have not launched the main site yet.
[http://dev.colearnr.com/finance](http://dev.colearnr.com/finance)
I researched MOOCs as part of my thesis and found that the platform they use
and their business model is not so great! Is online learning as simple as
watching video heads with a bulk standard discussion forum? Very happy to
share some of my findings from the research.
\- Online learning platform should be built for learners and not IT
administrators. This is where moodles, blackboards all suck! \- Online
learning should be engaging and distraction-free. We can learn a bit from
social networks, how they show all the content inline and make it engaging and
addictive. \- Online learning should make it easy to link knowledge and build
conceptual maps. For example, based on the topic you learnt, the platform
should show the other topics that you could learn so that you can generalise
(broad knowledge) or specialise. \- Online learning should suit modern time-
constrained learners. For example, typically all these platforms offer just
one way of visualising a topic which was originally decided by the curator or
the IT administrator. But learners need various views. Won't disclose a lot on
this, but for example, a view showing only recently added materials, a view
showing only the items to read etc could be intriguing.
Please feel free to take a look at my effort and let me know your thoughts.
tl;dr CoLearnr - a platform for collaborative learning
------
CamperBob2
dbpokorny, your comment is [dead], might want to email the admins about that.
~~~
tzs
That's weird. He has that dead comment, then a live comment 5 days ago, and
then several comments before that which are all dead.
Wouldn't a hell ban kill all comments from some point forward?
~~~
vxNsr
No, once you get over I think it's 500 karma, you can upvote (and downvote)
dead comments, so if he got two upvotes on any of his comments they would
automatically stop being dead, I think.
~~~
tptacek
I don't think that's how it works; I don't think I have any special dead
comment powers. Dead is dead.
------
biohacker
[http://classroom.tv/site/search/math](http://classroom.tv/site/search/math)
------
aethertap
openculture.com also has a huge list (725 courses according to their title) of
free online courses in a variety of subjects.
[http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses](http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Space Elevator Science - doc4t
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaellaine/space-elevator-science-climb-to-the-sky-a-tethered?ref=category
======
lutusp
The original title wasn't accurate (something like "help launch a space
elevator"). The proposal is to put a balloon at a 2 kilometer altitude. I say
this for the sake of accuracy, and to cut through the hype.
The long-term project goal is to create a space elevator on the moon, using a
method fraught with practical difficulties (one cannot have a geostationary
orbit there, over a particular location on the moon's surface).
Caveat Emptor.
p.s. it seems link submitters can edit their submissions and titles after the
fact. This means comments may ultimately refer to nonexistent content.
~~~
doc4t
What do you think will get more clicks?
The original intriguing and funny title "You can now kickstart a space
elevator" or this lame ass boring "Space elevator science"?
Which of the two could get more people potentially interested in science?
You guys are just not about the fun are you?
BTW: Who edited the title?
~~~
lutusp
> What do you think will get more clicks?
I hate to break this to you, but science is not steered by marketing, by "more
clicks". It's steered by evidence. The Kickstarter project isn't about a
"space elevator", unless a horse chestnut is actually a chestnut horse.
> Which of the two could get more people potentially interested in science?
Science isn't about persuasion, it's about objective evidence. Being
"interested in science" means being interested in what's actually so, rather
than being interested in Bigfoot and Ghost Hunters.
> You guys are just not about the fun are you?
Not when people are being asked to invest their money, no. When that's going
on, I get dead serious.
> BTW: Who edited the title?
I believe it had to be the originator, he's the only one who has the
right/ability to do that.
~~~
doc4t
"I hate to break this to you, but science is not steered by marketing, by
"more clicks". It's steered by evidence"
Of course it is. Evidence you get from research which get funded by sparking
peoples interest...which can be helped a long way by marketing. But I'll give
you that the title was kind of linkbait-y (and funny)
"Not when people are being asked to invest their money, no. When that's going
on, I get dead serious."
I assume people would actually read the project description before giving
their money away.
I am the originator...and I didn't change anything
~~~
lutusp
> Evidence you get from research which get funded by sparking peoples
> interest...which can be helped a long way by marketing.
Marketing is about persuasion, about emotion, not reason. Science requires a
dispassionate pursuit of evidence, without the slightest preference for any
given outcome.
> I assume people would actually read the project description before giving
> their money away.
An idealist. Fair enough. But many people will invest based on what they think
the project is about, rather than their actual understanding of it. For
example, in a recent survey 51% of respondents believed "cloud computing" had
something to do with the weather -- even people who used some aspect of cloud
computing in their daily lives.
> I am the originator...and I didn't change anything
Really? I assumed that only the originator could change the title of a
submission, and I have a hard time believing that anyone else could change a
title. Not that I doubt you, I just see a lot of room for mischief or
unfairness.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
SockJS benchmark (with PyPy, CPython, and Node.js) - ericflo
http://mrjoes.github.com/2011/12/15/sockjs-bench.html
======
scubaguy
A websocket client library that works against Node.js and Python, sweet! Now
if we can only have a .Net and Java server interface to go with it. Any it
falls back to good 'ol polling too, right?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
APIs Are Forever, Wait No...They Can Go Away at Any Time - apievangelist
http://www.apievangelist.com/2012/04/20/apis-are-forever,-wait-no...they-can-go-away-at-any-time/index.php#.T5IIrH2siH8.hackernews
======
DHowett
This makes me think of the not-so-recent deprecation of Offline Access by
Facebook. I do not know whether it will be supported ad infinitum, but if not,
it requires other completely-functional apps to be majorly rearchitected or
break entirely.
There is rarely a good reason to actively destroy old API - section it off,
keep it out of new code, maybe even kill the documentation so new developers
don't use it, but it's bad business and downright disrespectful to the third-
party developers who enrich your platform.
------
dirkdk
as I have tried to start a business building on top of API's, this is in
general a risky business. Not only can they disappear, but also work
incorrectly, go down, change overnight without notification. Also your access
can be shut down just because of a change of heart on their side
If you don't pay for access and have some kind of contract (Twitter firehose,
Bing API), yes your business goals are not aligned and you'd better prepare
for the worse.
~~~
cpeterso
Did you design your software or business plan with an API contingency plan?
Some web APIs have reasonable replacements, but most offer some unique value.
------
kijin
Clear deprecation policies are great, but I also think that every public API
needs to be explicitly versioned. This is commonly achieved by including the
version in the URL (api.example.com/v3/whatever), but a suitable header (API-
Version: 20120420) would also work.
Once published, a specific version of an API should never change in a
backward-incompatible way, only become superseded by newer versions. Likewise,
you don't change or deprecate individual methods, you merely stop supporting
older versions. That would make it much easier for developers to keep track of
API changes.
~~~
philbo
That definitely seems like the common-sense approach. There was an interesting
article posted on here recently though, which argued that API versioning is an
anti-pattern.
It makes some good points, although I'm not sure I entirely agree with the
conclusion drawn, since it places all of the responsibility on the authors of
the client-side code:
[https://secure.designinghypermediaapis.com/nodes/bujxbmhffep...](https://secure.designinghypermediaapis.com/nodes/bujxbmhffepq)
~~~
tommi
I agree on the disagreement. On removing functionality:
"This can be handled in the opposite way we dealt with new functionality: if
you don't see something, don't display it."
In my experience that is just too simplistic idea to cover all cases hence the
need for versioning.
------
hartleybrody
This is one of the best arguments for scraping data, if you can manage it.
Generally businesses invest much more time and resources into maintaining an
up-to-date, usable website than they would on an API, especially if they don't
use a service-oriented architecture internally (ie, consume their own API)
~~~
rollypolly
What type of business can afford being down every time the site they're
scrapping is tweaked?
~~~
hartleybrody
How often do websites _really_ change the layout of their DOM? Sure, some
sites that are actively developed (ie social networks) but for a lot of
business websites where information doesn't change that often, like
restaurants, reviews or clothing, websites are pretty consistent.
Plus, building a parser isn't always that much more work than trying to build
a client for a convoluted API.
It's obviously case-by-case, but I think a lot of people dismiss scraping
outright when there are a lot of useful applications.
------
tantalor
Programmable Web noticed this last year when Google started charging more for
their older APIs. Why kill the API when you can make as much money as you want
from its users?
> Google is also providing developers a reason to finally move their maps off
> of Google Maps V2. Overages for the old version of Google Maps costs $10 per
> 1,000 map views.
[http://blog.programmableweb.com/2011/10/27/google-maps-
usage...](http://blog.programmableweb.com/2011/10/27/google-maps-usage-fees-
how-many-developers-will-have-to-pay/)
------
majmun
How does one build a software that will not deteriorate over time, if he uses
unstable API?. I don't know. Just don't use unstable API if you don't have to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Best Online Courses? - ambivalents
I searched but there hasn't been a thread about this in a while.<p>What is the best online course you've taken? Doesn't have to be confined to CS -- I'm personally interested in expanding my horizons and learning new things in different fields.<p>Thanks all.
======
yesenadam
Sapolsky - _Biology of Human Behavior_ 25 lectures
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA&list=PL848F2368C...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D)
It's accessible to laymen, no prior knowledge needed. It covers so many
different fields and levels of knowledge ("buckets" Sapolsky calls them),
different ways of explaining human behaviour. By the signals in their brain,
or the hormones in their blood, or what happened that day, or their childhood,
or their genes, or evolution of humans etc. Also looks at other animals. A lot
of touching/funny/inspiring/poignant stories about scientists in the field(s).
Sapolsky is an amazing lecturer/raconteur.
Hamming - _Learning to Learn_ 32 lectures
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD4b-52jtos&list=PL2FF649D0C...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD4b-52jtos&list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30)
The famous "You and your research" is one lecture in this, but every one of
them is fascinating. History of computers, AI, codes, n-space, digital filters
etc etc. Mainly it's great seeing how his mind works, his thinking style.
(I've since read a few of his books, and I love how they're soaked with
practical experience, in the same way these talks are. It's all stuff he's
_lived_.)
~~~
hhs
Nice question, ambivalents, and thanks for the recommendation, yesenadam. Very
cool. I just started watching the first video of Sapolsky's lecture and found
it to instantly capture my attention. I'm going to stick to this series. By
the way, studying Sapolsky could also help with the forum question recently in
Ask: HN about explaining things well to people.
His lectures look like a neat place to get a deep anthropological grip on
things.
------
otras
I've taken a few, and these two are my favorites:
_Learning How to Learn_ by Barbara Oakley:
[https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-
learn](https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn) Hands down the
biggest return on investment for an online class. It helped my future learning
_so much_. Highly, highly recommend it.
Harvard's _CS50_ : [https://www.edx.org/course/cs50s-introduction-computer-
scien...](https://www.edx.org/course/cs50s-introduction-computer-science-
harvardx-cs50x) Took this course when learning to program. It was difficult,
but I learned a great deal. Fantastic professor, good problem sets, and great
production value.
~~~
throwaway123x2
Was learning how to learn actually that useful? I kinda let off halfway
through it ...
~~~
otras
I would say that it wasn't watching the videos that was helpful, but more
applying the concepts and techniques. I took general notes and reviewed them
periodically (spaced repetition!), and I applied the general ideas to my
classwork.
It's kind of like learning math. During a lecture, it's easy to think to
yourself "OK, I understand this," but you learn so much when working through
practice problems. I found myself saying "OK, that makes sense" when watching
the LHTL videos, but I really saw the benefit when actively working on
applying spaced repetition, diffuse vs focus mode, getting sleep, and other
strategies to my studying. I was taking a few post-graduate CS classes at the
time, and compared with my study skills and results from undergraduate, it
felt like magic to study efficiently and get good results.
------
Sidious
Previously:
[https://github.com/prakhar1989/awesome-
courses#readme](https://github.com/prakhar1989/awesome-courses#readme)
[https://hn.academy/](https://hn.academy/)
------
aregsarkissian
"The great courses" (google it) has a many well done courses taught by college
professors on a variety of topics
------
bjourne
Udacity courses: Applied cryptography, Intro to Theoretical Computer Science
Coursera courses: Digital Signal Processing
and Khan Academy.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
6 months ago, Kevin Rose created this. Does anyone subscribe? - DanLivesHere
http://tinyletter.com/foundation
======
KMEthridge
I watch it when it's posted on Revision3, but there must be enough subscribers
for him to keep filming it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
First Bitcoin-to-cash ATM card - mrb
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cryptex-card-debuts-first-global-100000730.html
======
samstave
I have said this so many times:
There are always methods to spend BTC...
I see very few methods to create/earn BTC...
The whole ecosystem is fiat modeled...
Fuck that.
How about an ecosystem to convert what I ACTUALLY MAKE into BTC.
If BTC is virtual crypto, let me cryptographically convert my virtual labor to
BTC.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
There are no bugs, only unintended causation - dawie
http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/706-there-are-no-bugs-only-unintended-causation
======
edw519
"Bugs are always about a lack of good information"
Wrong.
Bugs are the result of either:
\- not knowing what you're doing
or
\- knowing what you're doing but releasing prematurely anyway
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google developed a school curriculum to help kids fight trolls and hackers - rbanffy
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/6/15739412/google-be-internet-awesome-interland-hacking-phishing-troll-curriculum
======
DarkKomunalec
"includes sections on how to limit sharing personal information with people
online"
No word on if it includes sections on how to limit sharing with corporations,
however.
~~~
LinuxBender
It's google. They will teach the kids to trust the brand name they know. ;-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC - kvs
http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2010/07/new-york-governor-approves-short-term-apartment-rental-ban-in-nyc/101054/1
======
nphase
I was in NYC with my team this past Jan, trying to raise money with a few
angels in the area. The three of us decided to rent a furnished apartment to
save money. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of space this decision
afforded. There was plenty of desk space in the unit and while there weren't
enough beds for each of us the couches made due just fine.
The landlord explained that they were having trouble leasing the apartment,
and that they were falling back on relying on this sort of rental to help
cover the cost of the space. It's a shame this won't be an option in the
future, both for poor entrepreneurs and landlords.
~~~
mattmillr
Another anecdote: I moved to the city in late March. Since then, I've been in
five sublets while I looked for a suitable permanent place to live. (Moving in
tomorrow!)
One of those sublets would have been legal under this new law.
The first was a vacation rental business, very well run by the owner of the
building. I stayed there two months, so it wouldn't fall under this rule, but
I was the exception: most of his business would.
Another was a young professional who rented out her tiny one-bedroom in the
East Village to help pay for her vacation.
A third was a friend of mine who was out of the country for a few weeks. A
win-win situation, I paid her rent and got a place to live.
The fourth was a room in a shared loft with three roommates. The guy renting
the room was a photographer who spent the two weeks in Haiti documenting the
recovery. The rent money helped fund his trip.
The fifth, the one I'm in right now, was another friend's place. She moved out
at the first of the month (due to the availability of her new apartment and
her new roommates' schedules) but was obligated to pay the rent through the
end of the month. Again, win-win. I help with her rent and have a place to
live.
Tomorrow, I move into an apartment of my own. There is a specific no-
subletting clause in the contract, and I'll honor that. But I wouldn't have
made it moving to the city if this law had been in effect four months ago.
~~~
chopsueyar
But how many neighbors did you piss off?
~~~
gruseom
Unless the GP is an asshole, almost certainly zero. There's no difference to
neighbors between this and having a guest.
------
mikecane
I don't know how many of you here are native NYers. And I stress the native,
because anyone who hasn't lived here for decades won't have a deep
understanding of how things work here. Going out to the Hamptons (or
elsewhere) for two weeks or a month and renting out your place has been going
on here for decades. This has never been something hidden from the government,
The Village Voice would be filled with Short-Term Sublet ads just for this
purpose. Now that this has risen to the level of a nascent Internet business
that can centralize, organize, and capitalize on this practice, Patterson --
faced with a crushing deficit -- slams the lid on it. Every day I wake up to
find local, state, and national government tightening the noose around our
necks more and more. All of you talking about liability -- hey, one of these
budding Net businesses involved in this could also sell short-term insurance
for such liabilities.
~~~
fmora
I'm a native. Never heard of this. We must be on different economic classes. I
come from a working class and so does everybody I grew up with.
~~~
mikecane
Did you never have to look for an apartment in The Village Voice?
~~~
fmora
Village Voice? That is so las decade.
~~~
mikecane
Yes, but that was my entire point of citing _native_ NYer. From the 1970s on,
the Voice was a go-to place for apartments for young people, which also
included tons of Short-Term Rental ads. And the Times had such ads too for the
monied set.
~~~
fmora
No, I do not get your point. I was not even born in the 1970s.
------
fmora
The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare
they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after
some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself
in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel.
The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed.
The fact that there is always new people coming and going in what is supposed
to be a residential area can cause problems. And I say this as a resident of
NYC. Living here I never realized that it was so expensive to visit NYC. Sorry
to be cynical but I guess it sucks to be you if you want to visit NYC and are
broke.
Notice that the person doing this illegal business is the only one benefiting
from it. The community will not get any of the taxes that it is supposed to
get which are in turn used to maintain the streets, pick the trash, pay police
officers patrolling the area, etc. etc. Essentially, the community is paying
for an illegal business.
~~~
shykes
You are missing one important point: most people affected by this ban are
individuals, renting out one room at a time, maybe two. I have a hard time
believing this generates any kind of noticeable "coming and going".
In fact, tolerating the rental of a single room per household strikes me as a
good way of separating the wheat from the chaff.
Ironically, even Cuba has such an exception:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_particular>
~~~
fmora
I also see this as a problem though. Most likely the person doing this is not
the owner of the apartment. I wonder how the original landlords feel about
this. Maybe they just don't care, who knows. Seems wrong to be using their
apartment for this when they never agreed to it.
~~~
qq66
I would consider the landlord's involvement in this decision to be an
"abstraction violation." When I lease the apartment, I make a guarantee to
return the apartment to you in the same condition that I received it (with a
fine to be paid if I do not). It should be my choice whether to assume the
risks of a subletter, temporary or long-term.
~~~
lsc
more to the point, nearly all residential leases explicitly prohibit
subletting already, so regardless of city law, you are violating your lease by
renting out an apartment on the short term without the landlord's permission.
------
jim_h
That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a
budget.
I've met some very interesting and friendly people in 'short-term apartments'.
Mostly foreign students/travelers on vacation, people moving to NYC for work
and using it as temporary housing until they find a real place, or just
regular Americans visiting another city on a budget.
They make it seem like these places are unclean or unsafe, but they're not any
more dirty or dangerous than any other apartment.
~~~
rdtsc
> That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on
> a budget.
But that is a valid concern I suppose -- does NYC benefit from tourists on a
budget? If it doesn't then it might make sense to keep them out so tourists
"not on a budget" can have more space, visit more often, and consequently
spend more money.
I can see how tourists on a budget would not be welcome in many cities. Some
places rely on selling overpriced services and items to tourists and rely on
tourists coming in and just throwing money around. So making legislation to
accommodate certain visitors, but discourage others, kind of makes sense.
~~~
jim_h
You could spend $100+ on a hotel for the night, or spend around $30 or less on
a temp place. The money you save CAN be used for touristy things. That's $70 a
day that can thrown somewhere else besides for shelter. They could be out
partying, trying out food places, buying things, etc. This is just the savings
from not staying at a hotel..
A tourist who stays at a hotel ($100/night) might only have budgeted $50/day
to spend outside of hotel costs.
A cheap tourist could budget $100/day, stay at a temp place and still get more
out of NYC than someone who budgeted $150/day and stayed at a hotel.
~~~
mrtron
I would agree - the money spent on hotels probably doesn't stay as local as
money spent on food and entertainment.
Really an unrelated issue though.
------
DanielBMarkham
Interesting startup lesson here.
NYC -- famous for high cost-of-living. So folks start micro-leasing as a way
to recoup costs. Several startups are created as a way to coordinate these
micro-leases.
Response? Government steps in and shuts it down.
The reason social problems, like housing shortages and the political
responses, are important to talk about on HN is that big companies solve big
problems, and _nothing happens in a vacuum_. Sometimes your biggest competitor
can be the political status quo.
I find the governor's remarks true, yet unconvincing. Kind of like a lot of
politician-speak. Politicians (of all stripes) learn from the legal, public
relations, and polling professions how to take any position on any side of an
argument and make it sound somewhat plausible and reasonable for Joe Six Pack
giving the entire matter 5 minutes thought.
In the absence of public uproar, this was done for commercial reasons. Dig
deep enough and you'll find somebody with a checkbook.
~~~
jawngee
No, what I think you will find are people who believe that operating a
commercial enterprise, which is what micro-leasing is, needing to be subject
to regulation, licensing, insurance and liability - which they are currently
aren't. I also believe you'll find people concerned about the possibility of
renters being taken advantage of with no legal recourse.
It's pretty simple.
~~~
DanielBMarkham
I was going to use a bit of napkin logic to explore what you've said, but on
further inspection your logic is circular, so needs no further exploration.
If these things should be regulated because they are of a type of thing to be
regulated? Then we haven't really advanced the discussion much, have we?
Maybe you want to have a "big government" argument, but forget all of that.
I'll assume you are correct. This is a type of thing that of necessity needs
regulation. There are other enterprises just like this one who were not
regulated. So why now? Why this? Certainly you don't feel like the actions
were just random -- somebody rolls a dice and picks these guys out. I mean, as
good and as wonderful and as healthy as all these restrictions are, they have
to come from _somewhere_ , right?
Pick your favorite thing you wanted the government to do or not do over the
last 20 years that never happened. Why did the government do _some_ things and
not others? Is there some secret logic or calculus that is used to determine
which things to fix and which not to fix? Or is it just votes?
I mean, you understand the reason for political parties, right? The use of
force to protect interests. The speeches are all about bunnies and apple pie
and protecting orphans, but bunnies and apple pies and orphans don't vote or
make campaign contributions, do they?
Sorry about the cynicism, but there's a very interesting economic lesson going
on here that has to do with startups, so I thought it worthwhile to point out.
Not trying to get in an argument, although I have no doubt that I've gotten
into one. So I'm done here.
~~~
jawngee
What other enterprises similar to AirBnB that aren't regulated?
Restaurants? Regulated. Car rental? Regulated. Retail? Regulated. Banking?
Regulated. Hotels? Regulated. Bed and Breakfasts? Regulated in the state of
New York. Bars? Regulated. Movie Theaters? Regulated.
Name me one thing that isn't regulated, subject to zoning, subject to
inspection, subject to fire and/or safety codes?
It isn't a matter of big government or whatever weird diatribe trip you are
on, it's a question of consumer protection, it's a question of taxation, it's
a question of safety and fire codes, and it's a question of the rights of
other tenets living in the building to not be subject to a random rotation of
people in their homes.
[http://politifi.com/news/Students-young-professionals-
duped-...](http://politifi.com/news/Students-young-professionals-duped-into-
paying-for-nonexistent-space-in-new-loft-948842.html)
[http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/03/26/party_boy_bounced_f...](http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/03/26/party_boy_bounced_from_illegal_williamsburg_hotel.php)
~~~
borism
I agree with most of what you said, but why is random rotation of people is
bad for other tenants.
Also, isn't this a part of what New York is? I'd love to live in this city for
a month or two or what is possible on a visa, but this will make such dream
impossible.
~~~
earl
For the fifth time on HN: Manhattan is the most dense housing in the US. The
vast majority of Americans and most visitors to the states don't live in
anything comparable. Further, unless you live in a prewar, lots of housing in
Manhattan is pretty inexpensively built -- especially anything dating from the
60s and 70s, of which there is a lot. Little concern was paid to sound
insulation, and often the walls between neighboring apartments are no thicker
than the walls between rooms. Thus, people are much more circumspect about the
noise they make and their behavior in order to live and get along in such
housing.
Further, long term tenants know they will have to see and get along with each
other so there are further incentives to not being noisy or obnoxious.
On the other hand, short term tenants often want to party and have no such
incentives not to be shitty neighbors. This isn't merely theory but also my
experience living next to a short term place in SF. Thus, many denizens of NYC
and SF do not want such neighbors.
------
whakojacko
Lots of people seem to be thinking that all the big hotel chains are being
evil by lobbing this kind of anti-competitive legislature out to kill airbnb
and the like. And while that maybe be true, you also have to realize that
governments would much rather prefer people stay in real hotels regardless of
what the hotel industry thinks. Local governments get a lot of money off of
occupancy taxes, as well as tax off of the employment of those in the service
industries. How many airbnb hosts in NYC are paying occupancy taxes? What
about reporting income? My guess: not too many. And this is completely
ignoring zoning regulations that these self-serve hotels trample upon.
Im going to guess that these laws will become more prevalent soon unless
airbnb & co start become proactive about keeping track of all the relevant
taxation.
~~~
jim_h
What about home owners convert their N family house into N+1 (or N+2) family
houses and rent out the floor(s)? In fact I'm pretty sure it's very common to
do. I've even seen houses with 2 floors, but 5 mailboxes. I'm sure the
government would also get taxes from the increased property taxes and reported
income of people doing that.
The hotel chains aren't evil, but they have their interests and I don't doubt
they're giving the extra push for this to go through.
------
jawngee
I live in NYC, and while I think AirBnB is decent idea, I sure as hell
wouldn't want to live in a building where the landlord - or another tenet -
were renting out their spot like a hotel or hostel.
At the point you are doing that with any sort of regularity you should be
subject to licensing, insurance, etc.
~~~
richcollins
If you don't want to live someplace that allows short term rentals, make sure
it's in the contract that you sign when you buy the place. No regulation
required.
~~~
jonknee
You already did, unlicensed hotels aren't legal to run out of your home. This
law just makes that easier to enforce.
~~~
richcollins
That isn't a contract its a law. A law that I'm arguing against in favor of
contracts.
------
gruseom
Yet another illustration of how those with political power are not subject to
the discipline of the market.
~~~
zupatol
The market is created by laws, laws are created by politicians, politicians
are elected. That's how a democracy should work, anyway.
City planning is something complicated where I'm not so sure a pure market-
driven solution would be optimal. Markets only allocate resources well when
there are no externalities. They do nothing towards a fair distribution of
wealth. A good example of poor city planning caused by the market is the
housing bubble.
I don't know the situation in New York, but if hotels were in fact crowding
out the poor from the city, it would be perfectly legitimate to ask if this is
desirable.
~~~
w00pla
> They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth.
What is the "fair distribution of wealth"? I personally believe that you are
only entitled to the wealth you yourself created (or which someone voluntary
gave you).
Isn't that a fair distribution of wealth? Or what other metrics do you use?
~~~
ugh
If only the world were as simple as that. Location and family play a huge role
in whether you can create (as much) wealth.
~~~
w00pla
Maybe. But here is the thing – do you think it is fair for someone else to
subsidize your children (at the cost to themselves)?
It is usually the duty of parents to raise their children (and pay for their
education). The left however feels that it “takes the village to raise the
child” (nice way of saying that someone else should pay for education, etc…).
This means that dysfunctional people and families can externalise the
consequences of their actions.
If we think of it in a crude way: wouldn’t the most fit evolutionary strategy
in such a system be to just get as much children as you want? Since someone
else will bust their but to pay for the raising and education of your child.
This is unfortunately what happens in many countries, and it is quite sad. In
my country there are 13.4 million people on government grants and there are 12
million people working. Of those that work, only about 3 million pay tax (75%
which is paid by 750,000). Of the 13.4 million receiving “social grants”,
about 9 million are child grants (government pays them for each child under
16, thereby encouraging people to get children. Many people receive the child
grant from their children before they stop getting their own grant).
The point of this is that each tax payer is paying to raise 3 children that
are not theirs. Is that fair? Should someone really be allowed to get children
if they cannot afford them?
This is also one of the reasons I believe that democracy does not work in most
countries – especially countries with a high population or which is not
homogeneous.
The excuse of “family location” is BS. Many people have put off or postponed
having children until they can afford them, and at least kept the number of
children to a minimum. Many people also at least put in the effort to raise
the kids that they have properly.
~~~
Psyonic
"Should someone really be allowed to get children if they cannot afford them?"
Probably not, but there's the rub. How do we prevent this? Perhaps if we
refuse to bail them out... but are you willing to watch a child starve to
death? Will you be the one to pull the plug?
~~~
w00pla
The first thing would be to refuse child grants so to prevent adults from
getting children, in order to get welfare. Awarding people for getting
children is wrong and stupid.
The second thing is to force mothers to reveal the father of their children.
Many do not inform the state who the father is, therefore forcing the taxpayer
to pay for raising the child instead of the father.
And probably the best option would be to implement policies similar to China’s
one child policy. A good example would be forced sterilization after 3
children if the person receives any form government welfare (or already have
kids and is imprisoned).
But in any case, well before this point, the state can spent money on
voluntary sterilisation campaigns (i.e. paying the poor and drug addicts to be
sterilised).
~~~
ugh
Why is it suddenly fair for the government to make such extreme intrusions
(forced to reveal information, sterilization) when before it wasn’t (taking
aways money).
~~~
w00pla
Because the nature of economy changed. In the old times, any able bodied
person could do manual labour. Now manual labour isn't needed that much
(industrialisation, etc...).
Another reason is longer life expectancy and subsidized health care. In the
old days, a person inclined to irresponsible reproduction will not live that
much longer than a person without. Now there are many countries with an
average fertility rate well over 6.
Another reason is that it reproductive responsibility has been shown to work.
Compare China to every 3rd world country (e.g. 50 African countries and
India). Their one child policy not only stopped untold misery, but created the
bedrock for future prosperity.
------
wrs
Paris has a similar law, except the limit is a year, not 30 days. Now they say
they're going to enforce it. (We'll see...it's France.)
[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/business/global/07rent.htm...](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/business/global/07rent.html)
------
diziet
A startup like AirBnB worked to increase ease of entry into the market.
Outlawing it is simply protectionism of an industry that simply isn't staying
as competitive as many smaller entities organized by a technology. Let's pass
a law limiting holding time of tbonds to at least 30 days, shall we?
~~~
earl
Or people who live in the most dense housing in the US deciding they don't
want randoms, particularly people from out of the city who often aren't aware
of just how loud they are, frequently moving in and out as neighbors. As a
former and future resident of NYC and current resident of SF, I'd hate to live
next to such a place. I did until recently in SF and it sucked.
~~~
jgoewert
> randoms, particularly people from out of the city who often aren't aware of
> just how loud they are
Doesn't stop anyone from in-town either. I lived for a year in a place that
the upstairs neighbor stomped everywhere as he was morbidly obese and had to
use the toilet frequently. The neighbor on the right played rap and hip-hop at
max blast from midnight til 6 am, often leaving it on all day when he left to
work. And the couple on the other side had rough sex nightly. And even more
interesting is that this place was in a decent part of town, not some
slumhole.
> frequently moving in and out as neighbors You mean, like a hotel? There is
> one two blocks away from my house. Never been a problem. Or, are you more
> refering to something like transients? My subdivision has a lot of them,
> Bosnian families moving in extended family, finally getting their gov't
> grant, and moving out. Hasn't been a problem either... well, except for this
> one guy, but that was resolved and he wasn't a transient, he owned the home.
> Is your stance from a fear of strangers and foreigners?
I don't see your arguemenst fit into the equation at all.
~~~
earl
Neighbors two blocks away are simply nothing like neighbors 2 inches of
pressboard and a couple two-by-fours away.
As for permanent neighbors, call the board or your landlord. Either should
happily fix that problem for you.
------
uuilly
Economics: The study of the distribution of scarce resources with alternative
uses.
It would be great if more people knew that.
~~~
ataggart
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really
know about what they imagine they can design."
~~~
uuilly
Love it. I've been reading a bunch of Thomas Sowell recently. That seems like
it could be straight out of "A Conflict of Visions."
~~~
patrickgzill
Hayek.
~~~
uuilly
Sowell quotes him heavily.
------
vox
I think this law cuts into our freedom as house/apartment owners. I don't
think the government should have the right to dictate our lives at such a low-
level.
~~~
_delirium
I can't answer the philosophical/ethical question, but on the legal side, if
this is considered a kind of "zoning" (prohibiting commercial use of
residentially-zoned property), it's long established that that's a permitted
kind of regulation: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_v._Ambler>
~~~
chopsueyar
You would also need a permit for your home-based startup, since you are using
a portion of your residential space for business purposes.
------
yason
They could ban renting apartments but anyone should be able to rent a spare
room, provided you live there yourself. That would rule out the wannabe hotel
keepers and make it easier for people to rent their own space, which I believe
is the original point of couch crashing.
------
jrockway
Wow, a law! This will stop the "problem" just like the drug laws solved the
drug problem. Nobody wants drugs anymore, and even if they did, it would be
impossible to obtain them. Same for short-term rentals, thanks to this!
~~~
fmora
It will make Airbnb business more difficult in NYC. Sure, it hasn't stopped
the drug Mafias but it sure makes their job harder and brings the price of
drugs up (they love this though). This will probably bring the price of short
term rentals up. Enough perhaps to satisfy the hotels. Which maybe is all they
want.
------
thinker
Wow. This is a direct swipe at airbnb.com no doubt (a YC startup). New York
must be the largest market for short-term rentals.
------
ryanb
I wonder if apartments on the Jersey side of the Hudson (Hoboken, Jersey City,
Weehawken) are now going to jump in price on airbnb.
------
helveticaman
Does Airbnb have a lobbying budget?
~~~
plusbryan
They definitely did a bit of grassroots lobbying with petitions
(<http://savenysublets.tumblr.com/>) and I heard the founders spent some time
in NYC. But nothing compared to what I bet the Hilton's of the world put into
it.
------
buro9
Is the wording of the legislation specifically against "vacation" short-lets?
As in... does it block business related short-lets?
In which case, what's to stop AirBNB from adding a "trip purpose" selector to
their site which would default to "business" when a property in NYC is
selected.
And if it does stop business short-lets, why isn't that industry up in arms
about this?
------
petercooper
Meanwhile, there are people of privilege or wealth who are renting places for
$500 a month next to Central Park. What a world.
~~~
fmora
Source?
~~~
petercooper
It's a known problem, but..
[http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Theres+nothing+liberal+about+r...](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Theres+nothing+liberal+about+rent+control-a04262000)
<http://www.nber.org/~luttmer/rentcontrol.pdf>
Search [http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/02/10/nycs-rent-
stabilized-p...](http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/02/10/nycs-rent-stabilized-
parking-a-hidden-subsidy-to-drive/) for "rent control"
------
samratjp
Wait, does this mean this stops businesses like Airbnb from operating in NYC?
Regardless, the whole thing is b.s.
------
rdl
I wonder how much this lowers the price of 30 day rentals in April 2011 vs. 3
x 10 day rentals today.
I was going to AirBnB a few separate places in different parts of NYC for a
month or so, but now it looks like I should do just one. If all of the daily-
rentals have to convert to 30+ day rentals, it should increase supply by a lot
more than the number of people willing to switch from short stays to longer
stays.
------
ryanwanger
All the NYC BnB rentals will start listing their terns as: "You must intend to
stay 31 days or longer."
------
makmanalp
Related (might be vetoed):
[http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2010...](http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2010/07/new-
york-short-term-vacation-apartment-rentals-tripadvisor-ban/100935/1)
~~~
rhymeswithcycle
Nope, the governor signed the bill and said he wouldn't veto it.
------
swah
How well does this apply in practice? "You're going to receive some friends in
your house while you're away."
------
chopsueyar
New startup idea:
Combine AirBnB w/ Zipcar, but for RVs.
------
plusbryan
I wonder how the governor will feel now when NYC foreclosures skyrocket.
------
toxicflavor
Whether they can actually enforce it is the question. Many leases already have
provisions against subletting and landlords have had a hard time doing
anything about violators.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Thinscript: language that compiles to both WebAssembly and JavaScript - DAddYE
https://github.com/evanw/thinscript
======
constexpr
Oh wow I did not expect this to be up here this soon. Warning: two-week-old
project. I've got a lot of plans for this but it'll take at least a few months
for this to be anywhere near useful. Right now it's just an experiment!
~~~
pookeh
Please don't add type inference. Coming from Scala it seems such a beautiful
concept and a productivity booster when you are writing code but then you come
back a few months later / see someone else's code and quickly figure out what
a time waste and a productivity drain it really is.
~~~
Drup
If I may, that just means that either 1) your tooling is bad 2) Scala's type
system is too complex.
I don't know scala much, but it's not a problem in other languages with full
inference (particularly OCaml, but it's not a huge problem in Haskell either).
------
oldmanhorton
This looks a lot like typescript. Is there any particular reason for not
either 1) adding a wasm backend to tsc (which tsc may or may not allow), or 2)
implementing a strict subset of typescript? It just seems like piggybacking
off of a larger language would help this sort of idea gain traction.
~~~
constexpr
Yes. TypeScript doesn't have a sound type system and it comes with a lot of
baggage:
* Using hashtables in TypeScript relies on the representation of JavaScript objects with strings as properties. Emulating JavaScript's in-memory representation in an ahead-of-time compiled language isn't a good idea for performance reasons.
* TypeScript only has a single number type (double) which is pretty slow if you actually need to work with integers. JavaScript VMs do a lot of work to figure out which numbers are integers using information that's only available at runtime. Using explicit integer types means the generated code is a lot tighter.
* A lot of existing TypeScript code uses structural typing to model dynamic type contracts present in today's JavaScript code, but this is usually a loosely-typed approximation and not something that a compiler can rely on. It's more just to improve tooling for developers.
* TypeScript uses exceptions which are hard to emulate efficiently in native code.
* I want to be able to add certain things and extend the language, so I don't want to limit myself to TypeScript. For example, I'm considering a preprocessor for conditional compilation and something similar to C#'s unsafe syntax for pointer manipulation.
~~~
pookeh
All these reasons in Typescript are intentionally designed so that it's easy
to work with the rest of the JS ecosystem. Good tooling + rapid prototyping is
a strength not a weakness.
~~~
constexpr
I don't consider the design of TypeScript a weakness at all. TypeScript is
really well designed and is great at what it does. The type system they came
up with is pretty optimal for modeling real-world JavaScript code. But the
tuning they did around the JavaScript ecosystem means it's not a great
language to use for generating efficient native code. I started ThinScript in
part for exactly that reason. I want good tooling and rapid prototyping, just
for native development instead of web development. That requires a different
set of trade-offs and design decisions.
------
ZenoArrow
Thinscript looks interesting, aside from coding in it directly it could prove
to be a useful transpiler target, allowing non-web-languages to make better
use of WebAssembly as both WebAssembly and Thinscript mature.
~~~
constexpr
Yes! I considered this and it's an interesting idea. ThinScript may end up
being pretty opinionated about memory allocation though (I'm not sure yet if
I'm doing pure reference counting, pure garbage collection, or some
combination of both) so it could be a useful higher-level target language.
------
asb
I wonder if there's a plan for generics support?
~~~
constexpr
I plan to do it eventually. I've implemented generics before so that's not the
issue. It's just hard to get the design of generics right when the compiler
has multiple targets. You want to emit compact JavaScript code and at the same
time support the generation of efficient machine code. C++ does generic code
through template expansion but that ends up generating a ton of code, which is
bad for code delivered in a network environment. It may make sense to make
different tradeoffs given the context of this project. I'm planning on putting
off generics for a while though until more pieces fall into place.
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