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comment
omouse
2007-04-26T15:28:19
null
Still too much text. Someone should be able to figure out what juwo is within a few seconds.
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vlad
2007-04-26T15:29:34
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cwilbur
2007-04-26T15:30:14
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Ideas are easy. Execution matters.<p>You can either do the idea better than she does, or you can start working on another idea. Given that she's outsourcing the development, either one should be feasible.<p>Suing over ideas is just a waste of effort; the only people who come out ahead in the end are the lawyers.<p>
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eposts
2007-04-26T15:31:34
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Lets say you release a working prototype in 3 months. If its a great idea and you don't have all the features implemented yet you might start seeing clones of your idea.<p>If you wait too long and someone is working on a similar idea, you might lose early customers.
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omouse
2007-04-26T15:34:56
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pg's essays are pretty much open source. You can even submit patches!<p>The point of Scribd using Flash is that it doesn't launch a separate program and window which breaks your flow on the web.
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entrepreneur
2007-04-26T15:39:39
Manage Internet Business Projects
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http://mindfulentrepreneur.com/blog/2007/04/26/manage-internet-business-projects/
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npk
2007-04-26T15:40:10
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Yeah, you only have 1 product, that's the first thing the user should see. I just see text on your page and have no desire to read it. Solution: Make a little flash demo of your application (www.loopt.com ) and display it on the front page. <p>It took me like 5 clicks to get to your d/l site, d/l should be first and easiest thing to do.<p>Your top banner sucks. I don't care about the date, it fills up 1/4 of the screen and contains no information, drop it. Go to each of the y.combinator funded companies, they have decent sites: <a href="http://www.ycombinator.com/faq.html">http://www.ycombinator.com/faq.html</a><p>I'm on a mac, so I can't actually use your software.
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SwellJoe
2007-04-26T15:42:49
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And #4: ideas are worthless.
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budu3
2007-04-26T15:45:47
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I think you should launch your idea ASAP to compete with hers. Since she's using an off-shore dev team you might be more nimble in execution than she is. It's harder to explain to a bunch of guys over the phone exactly what you need done. I wouldn't advice partnering with her. You wouldn't want such a close business relationship with someone you can't trust.
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dpapathanasiou
2007-04-26T15:47:33
null
Leverage the 53,651 meme to your advantage: contact all the Web 2.0 startup sites (Techcrunch, GigaOm, Webware, etc.) and tell them that her service is a rip-off of your idea.
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dpapathanasiou
2007-04-26T15:48:28
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Hey, this isn't reddit ;)<p>Actually, I thought of posting it here, too, but I wasn't sure it was the right forum (I'd hate to see this become another slashdot or digg).
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natrius
2007-04-26T15:52:54
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Lots of people say that, but I don't think it's true. Just because an idea is simple doesn't mean it's a bad or unprofitable idea.<p>MySpace was a really simple idea, most of which had been done before, just not all on the same site. The reason they were successful wasn't because of the strength of the idea, it was because they got their site out there when the only real competition was Friendster, and since their site relies on network effects for much of its usefulness, it has been difficult for others with the same idea to be successful.<p>She screwed you over, but I doubt there's much you can do about it except try to beat her. Also, people who do things like that should have to pay with their reputation, but if your idea is too obvious, people will just think you're lame when you tell the story.
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dpapathanasiou
2007-04-26T15:53:27
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Anil, I wish you all the best with juwo, but I really think you need to reconsider your feedback claim (i.e., <i>"All feedback will become the property of juwo LLC."</i>).<p>That's <i>not</i> the way to encourage constructive feedback, especially when you've cut and pasted all of it from here.
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erdos2
2007-04-26T15:53:30
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They look like crap. And they are too focused on business to be interesting.
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pg
2007-04-26T15:54:05
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edgeztv
2007-04-26T15:54:34
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This is ridiculous!
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pg
2007-04-26T15:54:48
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I agree: launch a competitor immediately.
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mojuba
2007-04-26T16:02:13
null
Everything that's said about ideas being worthless is true most of the time, but not always unfortunately. So... next time don't reveal everything to a potential partner/VC. Keep some important bit of your idea secret. Something that isn't obvious, isn't on the surface, yet important for the implementation.
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erdos2
2007-04-26T16:02:30
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"Isn't the top one percent kind of a large number?"<p>It is. They want less than the bottom tenth of that. This is what would happen if JS were to interview anyone further to the right on the Bell curve.<p>JS: How would you fit in here?<p>Candidate: I would simulate the internalization of the values of the corporate workplace.<p>JS: When can you start?
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Leonidas
2007-04-26T16:02:52
null
Launch immediately. It's your idea so you have a better understanding and the ability to innovate much faster than she ever could.<p>Who cares if she was 'first' to do it...just make one that is better. <p>Someone mentioned partnering up with her - don't do it. "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me"<p>What a shame, a friend messing up another friend. This industry is definitely more cutt-throat than I thought.
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juwo
2007-04-26T16:04:19
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Under US law, it is first to invent, not first to file. Read David Pressman's book on Patent It Yourself.<p>The fact that you emailed her the presentation, IF any ideas are patentable, is proof enough.<p>This also proves those wrong who say that "Ideas are worthless".
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davidw
2007-04-26T16:06:00
null
Good comment. I'm kind of tired of this "ideas are worthless" "meme" myself. They may not have much value compared to well executed products, but the reason there is no market is because they aren't excludable goods:<p><a href="http://journal.dedasys.com/articles/2007/04/26/ideas-are-worthless">http://journal.dedasys.com/articles/2007/04/26/ideas-are-worthless</a>
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zaidf
2007-04-26T16:06:11
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MySpace succeeded because of great execution. Simple ideas once executed well become great ideas.OP should forget this and continue concentrating on releasing a great product.
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juwo
2007-04-26T16:07:35
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Ok, how do I prevent someone saying, "You implemented this suggestion of mine, it has helped make juwo popular, so now I own X% of juwo"?<p>Of course, this would likely happen only if juwo were to make money.<p>I am very willing to share revenues with those who help me <i>actually implement</i>.
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zaidf
2007-04-26T16:08:27
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That might give her more attention than she'll probably ever get.
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zaidf
2007-04-26T16:10:35
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From the day you get the idea. Though in earlier stages I control <i>who</i> I share it with--ie. it less likely I'll share it with someone who is desperate to do a start-up. I will share it with a friend at uni to pick his thoughts.
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dpapathanasiou
2007-04-26T16:11:57
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Maybe, but it won't be the kind she'd want.<p>Also, there's a possibility those site editors simply avoid mentioning her site at all, which would be just as good for the O.P.
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dpapathanasiou
2007-04-26T16:15:07
null
Simply making a suggestion doesn't entitle anyone to claim ownership.
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Mistone
2007-04-26T16:20:48
Why We Are So Bullish on Service Based Small Businesses as a Target Market
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http://www.promoterforce.com/2007/04/26/why-we-are-so-bullish-on-service-based-small-businesses-as-a-target-market/
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orlick
2007-04-26T16:21:49
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Are you pissed because you know that this woman has the contacts and industry experience to execute on the idea better then you?<p>A presentation and an hour talk surely hasn't given her much of an advantage. Go off and build your idea into a successful company. The day after it hits Techcrunch you'll have 50 competitors anyway.
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danielha
2007-04-26T16:23:06
Revealed: The Social Network Most Likely to Get You Laid
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http://mashable.com/2007/04/26/social-network-laid/
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AF
2007-04-26T16:23:49
null
If the original poster has his service out when he does this, it could end up being both very bad PR for her and very good PR for him.<p>In fact, her ripping off his idea could end up being better publicity than he would've gotten anywhere else.
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usablecontent
2007-04-26T16:30:18
null
Well I know its a joke and I put it in the list to extend the joke a bit further.<p>haha you didnt realized that the author realized that its a joke :)
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ido
2007-04-26T16:35:14
null
What was the idea?
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nostrademons
2007-04-26T16:36:02
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Brad Fitzpatrick of LiveJournal<p>Bob Metcalfe of 3Com<p>Jamie Zawinski of Lucid and Netscape<p>One of the Sun founders. Probably Bill Joy, but it might be neat to see Vinod Khosla's POV too.<p>An early employee of Microsoft. Doesn't have to be Bill Gates, but someone who was there before the IBM deal.<p>Some founders whose startups failed - both in the early stages, before we've ever heard of them, and those who crashed spectactularly.
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danielha
2007-04-26T16:36:19
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She has that <i>X of Y</i> one-liner down: <i>"Our company sets out to be the eBay of services."</i>
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danielha
2007-04-26T16:42:19
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Sorry, off topic.
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mattculbreth
2007-04-26T16:42:40
Ten Questions with Dr. Philip Zimbardo (of Stanford Prison Experiment fame)
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http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/04/ten_questions_w.html
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BrandonM
2007-04-26T16:42:48
null
Yeah, you might as well tell us all now, right?
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vlad
2007-04-26T16:43:28
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I found the answer! The web site does not load in FireFox.
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vlad
2007-04-26T16:47:53
Discuss: The secret to making things easy: avoid hard problems
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juwo
2007-04-26T16:48:41
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ok, I shall remove it from there - but put it on the feedback form instead - or is there a nicer way to say it?<p>
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vlad
2007-04-26T16:51:17
null
Paul's original thread erupted into just 2 replies about databases and hard drives, with 30 follow-ups about the same thing.<p>And, not ONE comment about the point of his article in a general sense.<p>So, here's a thread for comments that actually relate to the point of the article.
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litepost
2007-04-26T16:51:49
null
If its any consolation, Google announced plans to emulate a lot of the functionality planned for our new email client, Litepost, days after we started announcing and exploring our ideas with the public and users:<p><a href="http://mail.google.com/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=suggest">http://mail.google.com/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=suggest</a><p>I'm not saying they ripped us of course (who could possibly prove that?) but I will say that the timing is awfully coincidental, given that the overall ideas behind our program have been in development for almost a year (and we just started publicizing our ideas recently)!<p>Personally I take it as a compliment, and am grateful/flattered to have such a large competitor emulating plans we've had in development for a while. (The main thing we heard while pursuing this idea was "How can you possibly improve upon Gmail?" Well now Gmail itself recommends recommendations upon its service.)<p>All this, however, corresponds directly to what PG says and some of you echo below:<p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/startupmistakes.html">http://www.paulgraham.com/startupmistakes.html</a> 8. Slowness in Launching<p>(I'm new to this whole arena, so it's taken us a while to a) find the right developers and b) get up to speed before launch.)<p>If anyone's interested in weighing in, I wonder if open sourcing our project might help it or be of general interest/utility... is anyone interested in "an Open Source Alternative to Gmail that You Can Install and Run on Your Own Servers"? If so, I could use some help. <p>I am actually interested in ultimately duplicating _and open sourcing_ a lot of the functionality of Google generally, in order to decentralize it (the operation and its power, which after all is only algorithms + horsepower) and nullify the negative privacy implications of Google. What do you think? Any takers? <p>I think the only possible contender to Google is an open source alternative. Let's Open Source Google!<p>PS From another news.YC article: "In Silicon Valley, Google-as-the-giant talk is deafening. As others have noted, startups used to get the question "What are you going to do when Microsoft does this?" and today, it's "What are you going to do about Google?" Source: <a href="http://andrewchen.typepad.com/andrew_chens_blog/2007/04/google_a_tale_o.html">http://andrewchen.typepad.com/andrew_chens_blog/2007/04/google_a_tale_o.html</a>
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litepost
2007-04-26T16:58:06
null
Well then there's no reason Google can't take it.
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juwo
2007-04-26T16:58:37
null
I have been thinking of what a short 2 minute video would contain. I think a video is more useful than a screen cast. Since juwo has a dozen things it could be used for, what should I mention? Any thoughts?<p>If you are good at Javascript, would you like to help get juwo run on Macs? All that is needed AFAIK is to control QT with Javascript. I had issues controlling QT with Javascript. I have some code. (I am weary doing it alone).<p>
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juwo
2007-04-26T16:59:55
null
I dont have the brains to be able to explain it in a few seconds.
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webwright
2007-04-26T17:00:49
null
Ideas ARE worthless.<p>"Here's another way to look at it. If merely telling someone your idea means that it can be ripped off, then you hardly have a defensible product. If secrecy is your main weapon, then it will be hard to find investors. By the way, what happens when you ship? Are you going to ask every customer to sign a nondisclosure too?" And what about your first employees?<p>(quote from an Old Guy Kawasaki Column) <a href="http://www.forbes.com/columnists/2005/06/16/entrepreneur-venture-capital-kawasaki-cx_gk_0616artofthestart.html">http://www.forbes.com/columnists/2005/06/16/entrepreneur-venture-capital-kawasaki-cx_gk_0616artofthestart.html</a><p>And if you think the fact that her seed-funded team of 5 developers gives her an indomitable advantage, think again.<p>It's not what you do, it's HOW YOU DO IT.<p>So what action should you be taking? I'd say to look real hard at what she's doing. If she nailed it and has built something great, find another idea. They're everywhere. If she hasn't nailed it and you can make a better product, make it.<p>And, if you're feeling vindictive (I wouldn't bother with this), you could plant a few seeds within your shared network-- tell your mutual friends/contacts what she did.
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litepost
2007-04-26T17:01:24
null
Trust in karma. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay," saith the Lord. :)
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veritas
2007-04-26T17:01:58
null
don't say it. period.
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jkush
2007-04-26T17:04:47
The Lunch Break Challenge. What can you do in an hour?
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http://www.todotoh.com/emailimg/emailimg.aspx
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[ 17053 ]
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natrius
2007-04-26T17:06:08
null
MySpace definitely executed well, but no one has a monopoly on good execution. In your original comment, you said that if someone else could execute as well as he could, then there's something wrong with the idea. That's not true. There's a good chance that the poster is already screwed, because the person who stole his idea is probably competent. Just because the idea has been marinating in his head longer doesn't mean that he will be more successful. The suggestion that the advantage gained from being the person to come up with the idea in the first place is substantial enough to offset the head start that the person who stole the idea has isn't firmly based in reality.<p>With that said, I still think he should try to compete with her if he thinks the idea is worthwhile, but he should definitely reevaluate whether or not it's worth it to leave his job/school to do it full time. At this point, anything less than full time isn't going to accomplish anything.
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pissedoff
2007-04-26T17:06:36
null
I'm curious now....How do I get Google to delete my presentation from her email?
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jkush
2007-04-26T17:07:15
null
I had an idea for something simple and decided to hack it together during lunch today. <p>How about a little friendly competition once a week? See what we can hack in an hour? It was fun to have the idea, choose an implementation and hack it together in a very short amount of time!<p>Obviously, there's lots I can do to improve this little service. The intention is not to do something for real, but to have a little fun, be creative and push myself a bit.<p>Who's in?
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gibsonf1
2007-04-26T17:09:03
null
She crashed once - why not help her crash again: Launch.
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marketer
2007-04-26T17:13:25
null
Don't feel bad. Just think of the original guy who came up with the idea for facebook. Zuckerberg was PAID to work on his friend's version of facebook, and he simply went off and created his own.
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dawie
2007-04-26T17:14:31
null
Noting wrong with a bit of fun...
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npk
2007-04-26T17:17:55
null
I firmly believe that you need 1 screenshot, or maybe a 5s screen cast. Just something that gets the jist of it out there. 2-3 minutes is too much. Most tools have dozens of options, so be a reductionist here.<p>If you're going to be marketing juwo to different types of customers, have a 5 sec screencast, and then links to 3 or 4 subclasses (this will help you when you start advertising w/ google adsense as well.)<p>I'm too busy to help further :)
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jey
2007-04-26T17:19:30
null
Most webapps are trivial to implement, and the real value is in the idea. Given the idea, a competent programmer-designer could probably whip out most of the popular webapps out there easily.
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far33d
2007-04-26T17:20:26
Dodgeball dead.
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http://www.valleywag.com/tech/dodgeball/aaaaand-its-dead-255399.php
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Mistone
2007-04-26T17:21:50
null
first off, just wanted to say that this sucks, and you have a right to feel pretty pissed right now.<p>my first suggestion would be to contact this person directly and discuss what has transpired. <p>Other issues aside, there might be an opportunity to partner, especially if she has funding and you provide the development expertise.
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Shepherd
2007-04-26T17:21:58
null
Everyone have ideas, few have visions.<p>
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mattculbreth
2007-04-26T17:24:41
NYTimes talks about Apple's former CFO and Steve Jobs
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/technology/26anderson.html?ex=1335240000&en=4db43cadc825d354&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
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britman
2007-04-26T17:26:42
Is there a technique for getting content on a social based website at the start?
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omouse
2007-04-26T17:27:55
null
I don't believe that. You know all that text you already have? Just go through it and highlight the key points. Then out of those key points pick the ones that matter most to an ordinary person who just happened to stumble upon your website.<p>Look at the WriteWith.com site: <a href="http://writewith.com/">http://writewith.com/</a> One sentence explains it and the screenshot is nice too. But after the first sentence, it has a little list of things a user can do, "upload documents, share with other people, chat, assign tasks, and track everybody's actions with a comprehensive history." And you can figure out wtf it does in just two sentences...amazing huh?
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comment
britman
2007-04-26T17:28:07
null
The question arises around the fact that at the start of an application that relies on user content there is none, so do people spam friends to get this content or is there other ways of getting a site up and running with useful content?
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mattculbreth
2007-04-26T17:28:17
null
I'm still nervous about all of this. I know the Board has cleared Jobs a couple of times, but that doesn't mean the SEC has. Hopefully it all goes away.
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juwo
2007-04-26T17:30:41
null
why dont you tell us what the idea is?<p>what is her website url?<p>
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omouse
2007-04-26T17:30:41
null
2-3 minutes for a screencast isn't too much. But don't have it autolaunch or on the same page. Make the screenshot link to the screencast and across it have, "Watch it in action!" or something.<p>Anyway, I should get to work on my stuff too :P
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story
yaacovtp
2007-04-26T17:31:33
Connecting Google Voice Search (or any 411) With Car Navigation
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http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analysts/gartenberg/archives/2007/04/the_missing_lin.html
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twism
2007-04-26T17:32:49
null
The simplest solutions are always the best.
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comment
orlick
2007-04-26T17:36:55
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I would share the idea almost immediately with at least 5 potential customers.
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comment
ido
2007-04-26T17:37:48
null
Right. I like the design of <a href="http://www.edgewall.org/">http://www.edgewall.org/</a><p>And they get extra points for being open source!
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jslogan
2007-04-26T17:41:09
Branding - a nice way to spend, but not make money
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http://www.jslogan.com/content/view/61/
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omouse
2007-04-26T17:44:42
null
Maybe, but they have to come up with the idea first. And then they have to avoid being discouraged from going through with the implementation. And then they need money to put the implementation somewhere on the net. And then they need to market it or hire a PR company to do that. And they need to maintain and support it. And then...you get the point. There's more than just the implementation to web apps.
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omouse
2007-04-26T17:46:01
null
He's better off making his own karma. Launch! For Sparta!
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rmena123
2007-04-26T17:46:56
The New Way Of Search. People create the results. TallStreet.com
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2
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comment
Agathos
2007-04-26T17:47:23
null
Even grad schools wined and dined me at the interview stage, and one school even sprang for the limo. I can guarantee no grad student expects to live like that, except of course when the next year's prospective students are interviewing. There's no implied promise that this is a typical day; it's simply what's done when you want the best.
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comment
piratechick
2007-04-26T17:48:06
null
it is fun to compete with pissed off
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comment
jey
2007-04-26T17:48:31
null
Yes, and the idea is the only hard part of all that. Especially if you're already a webapp-guy, not a random joe-schmoe who doesn't know source code from a security code.<p>These are webapps, not operating systems, not mainframes, not databases. The barrier to entry, cost of operation, and development time are all pretty low. You can hire the PR people when you actually need them (probably sometime after you actually have cash flow). There's plenty of ways to market a webapp for <i>free</i>, and I sure would not hire a marketing firm to promote my new site.
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piratechick
2007-04-26T17:48:53
The site that pissedoff said was stolen but is not
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http://myspaceforteens.teenwag.com/
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piratechick
2007-04-26T17:50:17
Looking for cofounders
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http://myspaceforteens.teenwag.com/showvideo/352
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comment
Shepherd
2007-04-26T17:51:21
null
In order to stealyour idea you first must have owned it. Thing is, ideas cannot be owned, patnents (processes) can. In conclusion, no one stole a thing from you.
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comment
ido
2007-04-26T17:53:45
null
Writing your main cash cow in a private, in-house language seems like one of the riskier decisions you can make.<p>If they would have at least open sourced it and tried to get some sort of community around it it would have at least start to become less dangerous as the community grows.<p>But programming your main (only?) product in a language nobody except your current employees knows? Employee turnover must be even more of a bitch over there then it is in most companies.<p>I wouldn't want to work there when this "one of our best developers" quits/dies/retires
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makeworldbetter
2007-04-26T17:54:41
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makeworldbetter
2007-04-26T17:55:48
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pissedoff
2007-04-26T17:56:41
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eposts
2007-04-26T17:59:42
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pissedoff, looks like the idea is out in open. Get your site out there ASAP.
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pissedoff
2007-04-26T18:00:07
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Nope, not even close...that was a terrible site btw.
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pissedoff
2007-04-26T18:00:39
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It was a YouTube for documents. :-)
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jey
2007-04-26T18:01:07
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Go launch your site. Hell, you could increase the value of the site 3x if you just used a better stylesheet.
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pissedoff
2007-04-26T18:02:54
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I vaguely remember reading about it, that guy got royally screwed. I dont want my case to end up like that.
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dawie
2007-04-26T18:04:16
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But pissedoff you stole your idea from Reddit/Myspace
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ecuzzillo
2007-04-26T18:05:03
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If PG wrote an essay "How NOT to start a startup," it would probably be most succinctly written as <p>How not to start a startup<p>April 2007<p>Juwo.com. <p>Japanese translation<p>Russian translation
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jey
2007-04-26T18:06:31
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nickb
2007-04-26T18:08:50
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Bubble's here!
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comment
mukund
2007-04-26T18:12:17
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Pissedoff, stop worrying and do your work and get your thing launched. if people are copying your idea, it means its a great one. Second thing is, world is full of copycats and even if she had not steal u r idea, some one would have become your competitor pretty fast. so think her as your competitor and kick start to get her out of business.
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brianmckenzie
2007-04-26T18:14:41
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So she's outsourced the development and is spamming blogs to get registrations. Doesn't sound like too formidable a competitor to me. If you can code, you can develop your app and launch in less than than the time she's wasting trying to communicate with Indian developers in the middle of the night. Her industry connections won't matter so much if you launch a better product first.
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juwo
2007-04-26T18:15:09
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you are cruel because you dont have anything to offer that will fix it.<p>you will get back in the same measure, and more.<p>thanks for making my day! :(
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jey
2007-04-26T18:15:44
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False alarm. Works for me.
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