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bootload
2007-04-22T03:20:50
null
'<i>... folksonomy qualify as a good name ...'</i> <p>The irony of a site not following it's own suggestions. Maybe the suggestions are skewed to <i>theoretical</i> commercial sites. Anyway they are only suggestions. For every case you could find a valid corollary. Delicious is a great one. Just how did it get so popular with that name?
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bootload
2007-04-22T03:25:45
null
<i>'... Too bad the squatters have got almost every other URL ...'</i><p>in some ways it really hurts. You think of an idea, go for a domain and it's being sat on. Just another stumbling block. I reckon it has forced people to be more inventive in their titles.
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Latinflava
2007-04-22T03:40:50
null
thank you very much to all for your response extremelly helpful, i have a few manuals and ebooks and gonna get into "hacking", tho right no dont understand a lick, hope it soon will change :D
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story
plusbryan
2007-04-22T03:45:33
Pairwise supports Statsaholic by boycotting Amazon web services
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http://blog.pairwise.com/2007/04/20/pairwise-supports-statsaholic-by-boycotting-amazon-web-services/
9
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[ 15627 ]
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rms
2007-04-22T04:08:36
null
Um... I readily admit that Web OS is a misnomer. I mean a browser start page that implements useful tasks beyond what Netvibes and Pageflakes offer.
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bootload
2007-04-22T04:22:51
null
<p>
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comment
bootload
2007-04-22T04:23:05
null
<i>'... is it worth the noise it adds to the site? ...'</i><p>On the front page, maybe not. I tend to use the maps less regularly than every day. I check the entire vocab, not just the big words (though they do stick out). You're making a fair point though. I had the same beef with the ruby on rails image maps where they take up space & are indecipherable (to me anyway).
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brett
2007-04-22T04:26:01
null
No.
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comment
bootload
2007-04-22T04:34:26
null
time might be the constraint ~ <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=4780">http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=4780</a>
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jaggederest
2007-04-22T04:49:11
null
Simple answer: yes. Relationship credit models have been pretty widely explored.<p>A decent way to do it is to build a matrix of friends/enemies/etc and iterate over it until you have absolute values.<p>Example implementation (not mine) here: <a href="http://bitchun.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bitchun/tracker/ruby/">http://bitchun.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bitchun/tracker/ruby/</a>
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bls
2007-04-22T04:50:02
null
(1) Less UI clutter, (2) instant response time, (3) automatic Bluetooth sync with my phone, (4) offline ability (I live in Thailand and my internet connection is not 100% reliable), (5) an easy way to get stuff from my email to my TODO list, and (6) instantly-responding UI.<p>I like a lot of things about Nozbe.com but it is too slow and I cannot do anything with it using my phone. Also, the fact that you will have to pay according to how many "projects" you have is crazy.
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vimemacs
2007-04-22T04:51:16
spam
null
http://programming.reddit.com/info/1jwpq/comments/c1jwrf?context=5
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danielha
2007-04-22T05:14:58
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15,613
story
oxygenated
2007-04-22T05:19:57
Non-hackers: how to find a co-founder
null
http://pashbonk.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-find-cofounder.html
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dfranke
2007-04-22T05:23:25
null
You still need to be a hacker, and that's a significant barrier if you're not.
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bootload
2007-04-22T05:31:13
null
'<i>... Simple answer: yes... build a matrix of friends/enemies/etc and iterate over it until you have absolute values ...'</i> <p>Slashdot tried a model similar to this. The result you still got polarisation of views, short snipes without any real value. I don't think it's simple. Why? You can't change "human behaviour". Anything you do there will be some person trying to find a loophole. Joshua Schachter (delicious fame) went into great lengths in his talk on itconversation about this.<p>Especially just with an algorythm approach. Though one thing I can think of that did more than anything for me was a points filter (meaning you can simply not view someones comments below a certain threshold ) . A more broader approach has better chances of encouraging (enforcing) good behaviour.<p>One successful approach I have seen, can be found in the <i>perlmonks</i> (a perl programming) site where users gain karma through numerous means (time on the system, posts and moderation) enforced by a top down 'Benovolent dictatorship' and in effect a hierarchy. <p>You join the site as a novice & work your way up earning rights through encouraged & enforced behaviour. For instance you have to be a certain level (say level 5) before you can front-page a post. Another level and you can join groups effecting the design of the site. This type of conditioning means for instance users don't have power beyond their maturity. If they do things <i>out-of-line</i> (say for instance random down-modding or excessive referencing) they can be pulled in before the inevitable <i>kitten fights</i> (al-la slashdot) begins. <p>In time, as a user reaches a certain level (of maturity) certain rights are allowed. So the combination of brute user moderation and a more subtle framework encourages finding solutions to problems rather than /. type brawls. <p>I don't think mere code alone solves undesirable behaviour in systems. And it would be a good area for developers with a 'psychology', 'group dynamics' background to explore and add more knowledge.
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kyro
2007-04-22T05:31:58
null
How about how to find a co-founder if you've sent out flyers, list-serv emails and talked to professors? :P
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comment
joshwa
2007-04-22T05:39:07
null
juwo gets downmodded because he posts comments on nearly <i>every</i> article, and his posts are frequently off-kilter or ill-considered. As he says himself, he "must be the worst communicator" (<a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15510">http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15510</a> )-- e.g., witness the really inappropriate Nazi reference in the title to this thread. <p>Sometimes I find myself wondering if this reflects a major cultural difference he's just not grasping fully? Or just a strange variation on John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (the "Mahir Corollary?")?
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comment
oxygenated
2007-04-22T05:42:37
null
I think a key point from the post is that non-hackers need to make the first move - because face it, you need them more than they need you, no matter how unfair you think that is.
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comment
vlad
2007-04-22T05:56:43
null
Thanks for your feedback and ideas, guys! To answer your question, there were actually 7 video submissions in the past 24 hours between Google and YouTube alone. Had I known you were interested in videos, I would have e-mailed them to you so you wouldn't miss them.<p>Had there been a video section, nobody would have thought there were only 2 videos submitted in the past few days.<p>Please let me know if you have any other questions!
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omouse
2007-04-22T05:58:46
null
Paying per project does seem crazy.<p>I'm trying very hard to make sure there's no UI clutter. I'll show my results by April 30th.<p>#3 and #4 mean a desktop app. I may consider that in the future but right now, web only. Sorry.<p>By #2/6 do you mean using AJAX?
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bootload
2007-04-22T06:02:36
The big belly, revisited
null
http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2006/12/21/i-cant-believe-its-not-xml
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akkartik
2007-04-22T06:08:33
null
Thanks!
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story
papersmith
2007-04-22T06:29:14
Taste for the Web
null
http://www.xach.com/lisp/taste-for-the-web.html
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[ 15724 ]
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waleedka
2007-04-22T06:42:46
null
If you're not a hacker then you'd better be good in marketing and a good negotiator because these are the skills that most hackers lack. This way you'll complement each other, and you'll have something to offer the partnership.
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comment
akkartik
2007-04-22T06:44:21
null
Related: <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15515">http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15515</a><p>Favorite quotes:<p><a href="http://scrapbook.akkartik.name/post/1109880">http://scrapbook.akkartik.name/post/1109880</a><p><a href="http://scrapbook.akkartik.name/post/1109979">http://scrapbook.akkartik.name/post/1109979</a><p><a href="http://scrapbook.akkartik.name/post/1110614">http://scrapbook.akkartik.name/post/1110614</a>
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brett
2007-04-22T06:49:40
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15,627
comment
nickb
2007-04-22T06:50:24
null
Guys, it must have been a lot of work moving over to a different solution but integrity is more than worth it. Amazon needs to get the message that what they're doing is clearly wrong. Ability to mashup different services is one of the cornerstones of Web2.0 and if that ability disappears, so will a lot of value that mashups provide.<p>Kudos!
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enki
2007-04-22T06:55:14
Y Combinator Clone in Vienna, Austria launches
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http://beta.yeurope.net/
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rms
2007-04-22T06:58:06
null
Cool. They stole the application too, but I guess they can because doing so didn't hurt Techstars at all. They stole it so badly that I wonder if it's a joke.<p>"If one wanted to buy you three months in (March 2007), what's the lowest offer you'd take?"<p>I wonder how long it will be before we see a clone in India/East Asia.
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brett
2007-04-22T06:58:24
null
<i>This is particularly strange given that Google's gwt is probably the best way to build ajax apps.</i><p>Bold claim, amichail, bold claim.<p><a href="http://"onclick="alert('Doesnt-anyone-want-to-hack-javascript-anymore?')">http://"onclick="alert('Doesnt-anyone-want-to-hack-javascript-anymore?')</a>
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brett
2007-04-22T07:00:52
null
Prevent this kind of nonsense: <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15630">http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15630</a>
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comment
enki
2007-04-22T07:03:01
null
not a joke - tried to contact pg a few weeks ago already - emailed them again - but running out of time - if we don't get applications now, we can't launch. if pg says anything in that direction, we'll immediately take it down, and ask people to resubmit new forms because we can't use them. the questions pg asks are great, it just didn't feel sensical to try to reformulate them. <p>our differenciation is in how we implement it locally, not how we ask questions - the questions just are the same everywhere in the world.<p>our local hacker club is what we think might make this work - we have a few hundred people sharing knowledge and ideas here. we hope to build up entrepreneurial knowledge and spirit around the metalab, and store it within the collective memory of the people here.
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gibsonf1
2007-04-22T07:03:43
null
Maybe YC should be getting some percentage?
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jward
2007-04-22T07:04:57
null
Techstars stole the app. These guys stole the entire site.
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enki
2007-04-22T07:04:58
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enki
2007-04-22T07:05:56
null
i wouldn't mind giving them percentage, or for that matter, even all of it - we don't care about making money with it - i have my own startup running already. what we want is to attract talent to austria, and make it possible for locals to make the leap.
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whacked_new
2007-04-22T07:15:10
null
I believe YC's program is quite revolutionary, both in terms of supporting innovative businesses and also as an educational opportunity; I agree that right now, they are probably the best model to follow, but copying the application verbatim doesn't reflect well on your organization.<p>For example, do you have any other ideas you thought of applying with? One may be something we've been waiting for. I'd be very surprised if at the first time of execution, you are already so confident about your judgment of the internet startup landscape. It's reasonable to assume that YC really has things in mind. In this case, you are only waiting for things to come into your mind.<p>If the YC method is good, people will learn from it, and it will flourish. But seeing how yeurope does it right now, I will be wary.
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[ 15640 ]
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NonEUCitizen
2007-04-22T07:17:41
null
re: attracting talent to austria, can you get work permits for non-EU citizens?
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story
bootload
2007-04-22T07:17:42
Your life according to Google
null
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070421-this-is-your-life-according-to-google.html
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enki
2007-04-22T07:19:57
null
i know that this is a big problem, and does not reflect well on us.<p>we've had some failed startup attempts 4 years ago, e.g. in the area of social sorting. we certainly can't provide the level of depth and experience pg has, but we've been trying our best to learn for a long time now. we're talking to lots of people in austria and throughout europe, and are trying to get more people to support and make this work. <p>we have been working on getting things going fulltime for 4 years now, but the situation is a lot harder in europe. once there are some successful startups around, we hope to convince them to join the board. we just don't have any people to look up to here, and got to bootstrap somehow.<p>we've been pretty busy in preparing the ground for this, both with our hacklab, but also with contacts to all kinds of people who might help out with this, private, corporate and political. we even founded an interest group for startup founders (IG Startup), to lobby with politics, and are actively discussing their ICT funding strategies with the respective politicians and decision makers.<p>our hacklab launched one year ago, after 2 years of trying to finance it, and has a few hundred users already. the problem is the financing option for yeurope has just arisen half a week ago, and if we don't launch now - we might never do it.<p>
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enki
2007-04-22T07:21:14
null
we have support by politicians - if the submission is good enough, this might work - can't guarantee anything
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comment
jaggederest
2007-04-22T07:22:06
null
The system I pointed out is free from those flaws, for precisely one reason: karma in that sort of system is always relative.<p>That is, everyone moderates according to their own tastes, and nobody is 'better' than anyone else. It all sums to zero, the only filtering is by individual preference.
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bootload
2007-04-22T07:24:07
Dynamic languages more than just a quick fix
null
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/04/16/16FEscripting_1.html
1
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4
[ 15656, 15682, 15714 ]
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comment
whacked_new
2007-04-22T07:30:19
null
del.icio.us is hard as hell to type. Here is my speculation.<p>First, "del" and "us" are easy to remember. Now you just place in the dots. So in terms of your memory, the difficult part is in the production phase (typing), not the storage and retrieval.<p>Second, I imagine most of its initial users were relatively well educated and web-wise.<p>Third, the lack of .com makes it unique, and at its time, a pioneer. The pioneer always has imitators, and we have seen plenty. Flickr is another one of those "pioneers."<p>And pioneers don't follow guidelines, because guidelines were based on the pioneers. So much for these tips; they should make a portfolio demonstrating how creative they are, like logo firms do. "Here are some example names we've come up with: 1. Folksonomy..." 4 syllables, 10 characters, and if you type properly, the second half of the word uses way too much index-finger.
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wordsthatendinq
2007-04-22T07:36:50
null
I don't know the consequences of posting in a 5-day old thread, but I just felt like practicing my side interest in econ. My only experience with game theory was a half-term graduate course and I don't follow everything you're saying, but my gut feeling is that these definitions aren't important to the spirit of the article.<p>Suppose you're buying stocks; you choose a portfolio of stocks to maximize your return. Of course you'll make mistakes and pick bad stocks, but as long as you have enough good stocks in your portfolio, you'll still turn a profit (and companies won't come and argue "why didn't you buy my stock?"). The difference between YC and the stock market is that being chosen by YC can potentially increase your value; they are more like the coaches that train athletes. So whatever portfolio they pick will actually end up with a higher value than if it were just left alone. Also, it makes sense to evaluate people by things not so one-dimensional as "ability" (which by gyro_robo's argument we should maximize), otherwise we ignore other possible synergies between coach and trainee, such as similar personalities, that can cause the trainee to train more productively, independent of ability.<p>The problem with the stock market analogy is that all you need to do is to beat the market, and to do that you just need to perform better than average. Actually YC could do that if all they wanted was to make some money. Perhaps similarly, a sports coach could be lax about picking athletes if the second-best team was way behind. This is where I see the game theory coming in. If there was another team, similar to YC, that was similar in performance, then YC would have more of an incentive to minimize the measurement error. I'm not saying they don't already, I'm just saying it would make sense to do so.<p>Anyway, I don't know if this makes any sense but the essay is fun and probably a good piece to show to some younger people.
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whacked_new
2007-04-22T07:42:01
null
Throw those criteria out the window. Squatting is such an uncreative thing, so squatters probably are unable to "think outside the box." I have stopped thinking these sites tell anything useful. What do you think of this one?<p>oi.oio.io<p>It's up for grabs (as of now), and I bet you'd remember it after a few seconds. It doesn't even need to follow a syllable rule. Too bad I don't have a product to match this name, but I think it's great. If you think otherwise, be sure to explain why.
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rms
2007-04-22T07:44:36
null
It speaks well of you that you're willing to address criticism on here. Good luck, I hope it goes well for you.
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comment
menloparkbum
2007-04-22T07:48:37
null
I'm not convinced the best hackers are found in a university computer lab. When I was in college the only people in the computer lab were IRC addicts who were too broke to afford their own computer! The article mentions "the Woz" and I'm pretty sure steve jobs did not meet steve wozinak in a computer lab.
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bootload
2007-04-22T07:48:45
null
<i>'The system I pointed out is free from those flaws, for precisely one reason: karma in that sort of system is always relative '</i><p>Can you give me some sites that use this (aside from skype)? Can you explain how say person 1, rates person 2 and how the rating is viewed from person 2's point of view? ... or say person 3 observing?
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brett
2007-04-22T07:50:50
null
So that I have this straight: You've tried to copy YC's approach and website as closely as possible down to featuring one of their startup's product in the middle of your page and naming your yourself so as to suggest that you're somehow affiliated and you are holding out hope that they're going to be happy (or even just not upset) with this?
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comment
paul
2007-04-22T07:51:47
null
You should add a disclaimer to your site that says, "We are not affiliated with Y-Combinator, we just ripped off their name, funding model, and application." Otherwise, people may get confused.
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whacked_new
2007-04-22T07:52:08
null
I second rms... but again, you shouldn't skimp on your website and your app, in any way; it's your public face. If you want to tailor the program to local apps, then it needs more thought. "We're looking for great people. We don't care that much whether your idea is the best thing since sliced bread."<p>How in the world are you going to measure "great"? It's definitely <i>not</i> going to come through via just the 28 YC questions. They have a news site for what it's worth. A monster hacker team that cannot come up with a sellable idea is merely a great team of coders -- nothing but.<p>And why does politics need to be involved?
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wordsthatendinq
2007-04-22T07:52:39
null
I think it's kind of funny that everyone uses the same app. One of these days someone will start a Princeton Review-like startup that submits the answers to all organizations with one click.<p>btw, I don't know if it's just me but I don't know why people are so worked up over these copycats. When the second university in the world was founded, maybe people accused them of copying the first university, but in the long run it's been good for mankind. Of course, if all the orgs want to talk amongst each other and pay royalties to YC, that might also be interesting.
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3KWA
2007-04-22T08:03:38
null
Many people in Europe have been looking at what YCombinator is doing and how they are doing things. There is no less creative and hacking talent in Europe than in the States but certainly a lack of entrepreneurial spirit and the infrastructures and environment favorable to the emergence of top notch startups. Nevertheless it is well worth trying!<p>I tried to contact PG a few months ago on the subject of getting YCombinator to participate one way or another in such a scheme in Europe with no success. The YEurope rip-off does not reflect well indeed on such endeavors but you can be sure that other will emerge and hopefully turn some ventures into successes.
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whacked_new
2007-04-22T08:06:57
null
Let's take a different look at this article. As a thought experiment, say I'm a non-hacker, enrolled in b-school, looking for a hacker. Now the suggestions:<p>1. enroll in an engineering school. oops. 2. study CS, or take relevant classes. Ok, I can take relevant classes. half-oops. 3. go to all classes to see the real hackers. Real hackers aren't going to be in "introduction to programming." oops. 4. hang out with admirable hackers. Icebreakers anyone? oops.<p>Your post presumes a lot of favorable conditions which do not apply to many people your article is addressed to; the problem is left unsolved. It looks like a rather gaping problem, so why not address it? A matchmaking service!<p>I was told of an annual entrepreneurship program in Taiwan, where small teams of all hackers and all business folks apply via separate tracks. The winners then get matched together. It's quite an intriguing concept and definitely worth exploring further.
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bootload
2007-04-22T08:12:11
null
<i>'... Groovy has the smallest installed base of the three, due to its shorter history. It does, however, hold one distinct advantage over both Ruby and Python: Its syntax will be familiar to Java developers. ...'</i><p>There are some gotchas though ~ <a href="http://groovy.codehaus.org/Differences+from+Java">http://groovy.codehaus.org/Differences+from+Java</a>
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enki
2007-04-22T08:12:47
null
well, these are tough questions. the answers to these questions heavily involve european culture, so i'm having a really hard time accurately portrying the situation. but i'll try my best to answer. <p>europe probably has just about as much cash, and as much education as the US. but according to the aho group report (<a href="http://ec.europa.eu/invest-in-research/action/2006_ahogroup_en.htm),">http://ec.europa.eu/invest-in-research/action/2006_ahogroup_en.htm),</a> named after the former finnish prime minister esko aho, the ICT field, despite having some of the lowest initial investment costs in all of high tech, is the most severly underdeveloped.<p>the reasons for this, he muses are both a lack of entrepreneurial spirit, and a lack of funding in the pre-seed areas.<p>i'd like to believe the first point is not an absolute. we have great people with the skills and desire to create cool applications. on the other hand you can't just walk up to a rich friend here, who'll give you cash if your idea is great. there are no rich friends, and even if you know one or two, they haven't made their cash in a startup, or even in the off chance that they have, they're a business guy. businesses are started by business people here. if you want to start a business, you have no chance to get cash from someone from your world, who has been on that path before.<p>so you're left with public funding, and public funding involves politics. but public funding doesn't work for tech founders either - the lisbon goal of 3% GDP for r&d mostly goes into empty tech parks and research centers by big corporations. incorporating a limited liability company here requires at least 17000 euros, with a liability of up to 34000 euros.<p>if you want to apply for any kind of funding, you require months of meeting bureaucrats and writing applications - a different one for each place. these people will tell you after months your projects are either not innovative, or they won't work. but the budget is there, so people claim everything is alright. then they fund projects by friends, or stupid things with avatars running around in browser plugins.<p>the only places to get entrepreneurial information are bureaucrats. you're very unlikely to know anyone who started his or her own tech business without sheer luck and without their own money. there's no place to get advice, except other people who are on the same path right now. you usually don't start businesses before you've saved a significant amount of money and are probably well beyond your 40s. also people will discourage you, because it is seen as very risky.<p>we are adressing these problems both by creating non-profit community centers where you're surrounded by like-minded people, and to which we invite people we think of as insightful, and by actively lobbying for better legislation to support startups, and by making access to initial cash easier. of the few techie-founders we have here, most are single-founders, because it is really hard to convince two friends to found with you if they can barely pay their rent while studying and working at the same time.<p>for the argment about our capability to accurately judge the merit of the applications i have to say: you're unfairly postulating that we're unskilled because we have no huge successes to show yet. i have a hard time to counter that argument right now, but trust me, we're working hard to do just that.
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Tichy
2007-04-22T08:26:21
null
I don't think the advice in the article applies anymore. Who would go to a computer lab these days? I suspect people are more likely to use labtops and WLAN.<p>Also, I don't think hackers dislike Java. Judging by the number of Open Source projects in Java, I'd say it is popular among volunteers, too (not only people being forced to by their superiors are using it). <p>I am not sure studying programming is a good idea, either. I would also like to have a co-founder who is a graphics designer, marketing is good, too, generally somebody who gets things moving.
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null
2007-04-22T08:39:53
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papersmith
2007-04-22T08:47:45
null
Nice one. This law seems to also stretch quite far beyond the internet.
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enki
2007-04-22T08:51:43
null
done
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jaggederest
2007-04-22T08:59:26
null
person 1 allocates one or many positive or negative points to person 2.<p>person 2 shows person 1 as having higher/lower karma, person 1 shows person 2 as having higher/lower karma.<p>Person 3 has no viewpoint unless they are in the system. There is no 'absolute' objective viewpoint without taking a stance. <p>A user with no ratings of anyone sees everyone with the same karma.<p>All four of the major extended interactions work too. (friend of a friend, enemy of a friend, enemy of an enemy, friend of an enemy)<p>Another property is that it doesn't matter how many points you use. You may rate someone up or down as much as you desire, or make up your own rating system, whatever works for you.
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JMiao
2007-04-22T09:04:02
null
That's a great perspective.
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ivan
2007-04-22T09:06:36
null
At least something 50 kilometers away :) Alles gute Paul.
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SwellJoe
2007-04-22T09:08:18
null
What's wrong with this sentence:<p>"YCombinator Clone in Vienna, Austria launches!"<p>Hint: It's not in the first, second, third or sixth word.<p>You're missing at least 50% of the value of Y Combinator by being outside of a startup center, probably more. Can a successful startup happen outside of the Valley? Sure...but you're definitely hurting the chances of success by a significant degree.
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Tichy
2007-04-22T09:18:00
null
Certainly the value of YCombinator is bringing interesting people together. I don't think the Valley is the only place in the world with interesting people, though.<p>YEurope doesn't look too promising, though - the cloning approach leaves a negative impression. If they are so cutting edge, surely they would have been able to come up with their own scheme.<p>Also, they don't say how they will come up with interesting speakers.
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rms
2007-04-22T09:19:00
null
They have different aims with this program, they're doing what they can to take make Vienna/Europe better for startups.
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enki
2007-04-22T09:31:51
null
take a look at <a href="http://metalab.at/wiki/Folder:V5a-en">http://metalab.at/wiki/Folder:V5a-en</a> - we've spent years building up a thriving community. we had planned to launch in 2008 with the money from our first successful startups, but half a week ago the opportunity has arisen to start in 2007. we could have spent more time pretending to look different like techstars has done, but what good would that do? we rather launch now and face the critics.<p>we are openly copying the concept of ycombinator, akin to copying the concept of an university. we are neither trying to hide that fact nor arguing against it. time will tell if our approach works. but a verbatim copy of the implementation in europe certainly wouldn't work, and how such an implementation could look, this is what we have concentrated our thought and deeds on.
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whacked_new
2007-04-22T09:43:50
null
Thanks for the excellent response; it contrasts interestingly with the most recent Global Competitiveness Report: (Finland 2nd, USA 6th) <a href="http://www.weforum.org/en/initiatives/gcp/Global%20Competitiveness%20Report/index.htm">http://www.weforum.org/en/initiatives/gcp/Global%20Competitiveness%20Report/index.htm</a><p>I don't know the scene over there. But I'm guessing this is why Wikio got 12M(!) in funding?<p>To clarify, I'm definitely not calling you unskilled and am not qualified to do so. I'm attacking your copying of a question that implies you have solid experience in the field as a seed funding organization, operating like YC. I don't even know their inner workings.<p>But public funding + politics + international applicants seems to entail a lot more than seed funding + support. In another message (<a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15641)">http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15641)</a> you said work permits are available if the idea is good enough. Do the politicians have a say in the selection process?<p>I think your effort is great. Lots of people will be watching; I hope things can go smoothly for you.
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Tichy
2007-04-22T09:55:42
null
I agree that in general it is better to do anything than nothing. Maybe you should just make it a little bit clearer on the web page why you copied YCombinator, and what background experiences you have, to evoke more trust.<p>Your metalab looks interesting (wish there was something like it where I live), and I think Vienna is a great city (much better than the Valley, I suspect). I wish you success with the venture!
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Benja
2007-04-22T10:02:25
null
A general question and a specific one:<p>Who <i>are</i> you? Metalab has an extensive website, but who's behind YEurope? You know that the funding is only a small part of what YC provides -- you won't be able to live up to pg, rtm et al, which is expected, but right now you don't say <i>anything</i> about yourself, so why should a prospective applicant value your connections and advice?<p>And: One of the things YC does is that it sets up a company for you. YEurope is in Austria. Austria is a country where it's expensive to incorporate (pg has written about how that is one problem for startups in Europe [1]). What are you going to do about that?<p>[1] <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html">http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html</a>
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mattjaynes
2007-04-22T10:05:44
(Re)writing Reddit in Lisp in 20 minutes and 100 lines (Video)
null
http://homepage.mac.com/svc/LispMovies/index.html
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carefreeliving
2007-04-22T10:06:58
LinkedIn For Startup Entrepreneurs: 5 Hypothetical Reasons To Join
null
http://onstartups.com/home/tabid/3339/bid/1401/LinkedIn-For-Startup-Entrepreneurs-5-Hypothetical-Reasons-To-Join.aspx
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pashle
2007-04-22T10:13:24
null
You're right, Steve met Woz because they lived in the same neighbourhood/street. I agree that labs might be a long shot. Where else do you think hackers might hang out?
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pashle
2007-04-22T10:15:36
null
As with menloparkbum, I agree that labs might be a long shot. I also agree that cofounders with design and marketing skills would be great to have. Where would you go to find them?
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pashle
2007-04-22T10:17:25
null
Good points, the article was quite narrowly focused. Where would you go to find cofounders?
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enki
2007-04-22T10:31:21
null
hello benja, i'm paul and i'm the one who mainly started this. your reservations are absolutely justified. who am i to think i can do this? i haven't had any huge successes to show yet, and i really didn't want to launch like this. i had big plans of launching with my own money, and then i'd have prepared some nice texts telling my success story.<p>as things went, we are launching early. i'm certainly in a different league than pg, but i try. being where i am now, i'll also write down some more information about me and the other people involved, so that you can get a better idea.<p>basically i'm a computer security guy. started programming with 8, and then later spent a lot of time at university to get cheap net access using the DLX single-floppy linux distro that my brothers had developed in 96 (of course i had no student account at 14). met cool people there, tutors and such, and was trying hard to keep up with them. i started the teso security group in 98, and have been a computer security person ever since. i got involved with many NGOs, am really interested in game theory and reputation systems, co-wrote a paper on quantum cryptography, and started a company first trying to do social sorting, but ran out of money quickly (i wasn't checking against my own reality, but the reality i knew from my friends in SF, and expecting to get VC easily, so i rented an office, got myself a friend as a CEO who was good with words - i certainly wasn't back then). then i developed a bootable usb stick with a crypto IFS filesystem driver for windows, and loopback-aes for linux, to sell to local banks. we had a customer, and we finished the code, but my ceo got lovesick and didn't answer my calls for weeks. then i got a loan, hired a project manager to do this stuff for me. we didn't get anywhere, but she was really expensive. in early 2004 i had to close shop because we could neither get any funding at all, nor get anyone to manufacture the product. i made lots of mistakes. i got back into security consulting, and spent the last 3 years paying off my debt, and learning from these mistakes. i never managed to incorporate beyond my one-person-company. i spent my free time during the last 3 years building up the metalab, probably the most active non-profit and self-funded project center in europe. We have about 110 members, who pay 20 euros a month to finance our location. We are completely nonprofit and independent, and will remain like that. But one of the goals of the lab was to prepare both for my own next startup, and the startups of other people. so far we've been quite successful at sharing knowledge, experience, and instantiating projects. being wary of big endeavours with too many unknown factors, i'm organizing a computer security conference (<a href="http://deepsec.net/)">http://deepsec.net/)</a> right now and had planned to use that money to finance yeurope in a year. my startup probably is the most risk-averse of all we have in the lab right now. i was urgently aiming for success and start cash for yeurope. half a week ago, because we started lobbying as IG Startup (interest group of startup founders), an opportunity has arisen to do YEurope right now, by taking an angel on board. we certainly have worse cards than YC in the US, but i'm confident we can do this, or i wouldn't try.<p>i'll try to write these things down in a more readable fashion in the future. in the meanwhile you can read a slightly outdated but less prosaic CV here: <a href="http://kybkreis.org/~enki/cv_paulboehm2007.pdf">http://kybkreis.org/~enki/cv_paulboehm2007.pdf</a><p>regarding the incorporation question: we have a harmonization regulation in the EU which allows us to start companies anywhere in Europe. we could start cheap LLCs or LLPs in the UK and still use them in Vienna, with Viennese law applying to all business except shareholder disputes which would be under UK law. for non-EU citizens we might have to find special arrangements. i have no idea how this might work. i'm not a lawyer though, and i'll leave this stuff to our lawyers.
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bootload
2007-04-22T10:31:40
null
'<i>... Person 3 has no viewpoint unless they are in the system ...'</i> So there is effectively no visible karma? - unless person 3 intersects person 1 and person 2?<p>That's a pretty good system. How do you measure (unless you have admin on the system) person 1 compared to person 2 and person 3? From the way I see this would it work on a system where a (visible) reward is given out for effort? (I define effort as creating links + comment).<p>The reason I ask is that how do you encourage users here to add content and create a leader board? I know the constraints are bit tight, but if you solve this it would be worth recommending to features.
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danw
2007-04-22T10:35:06
Constructive reasons to use Django instead of Rails
null
http://jesusphreak.infogami.com/blog/why_django
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bootload
2007-04-22T10:35:28
null
here's what I find ...<p><i> <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=YBombinator+People+Powered+Internet">http://www.google.com/search?q=YBombinator+People+Powered+Internet</a><p>then I get ...<p>- <a href="http://bdeseattle.blogspot.com/search/label/ybombinator">http://bdeseattle.blogspot.com/search/label/ybombinator</a><p>- <a href="http://del.icio.us/bdeseattle">http://del.icio.us/bdeseattle</a><p>- <a href="http://jott.com">http://jott.com</a><p>- <a href="http://twitter.com/bdeseattle">http://twitter.com/bdeseattle</a><p>then finally from another source ... <p>- <a href="http://www.stonetemple.com/articles/interview-bryan-eisenberg.shtml">http://www.stonetemple.com/articles/interview-bryan-eisenberg.shtml</a><p>The name here matches the </i>bde<i>seattle. I can link bdeseattle to the name.
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comment
bootload
2007-04-22T10:46:21
null
'<i>... First, "del" and "us" are easy to remember. Now you just place in the dots. So in terms of your memory, the difficult part is in the production phase (typing), not the storage and retrieval. ...'</i><p>Nice explanation. The way I remembered it was 'del' 'icio' 'us', pretty much the pattern you describe.<p>'<i>... And pioneers don't follow guidelines, because guidelines were based on the pioneers. ...'</i><p>maybe that should have been a guideline. <p><p>
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busy_beaver
2007-04-22T10:52:50
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"IT's rise to prominence as a core competence that delivers competitive advantage"<p>Stopped reading here. Sorry. :-)
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Tichy
2007-04-22T10:59:15
null
I am only just starting to look - tough question. Maybe at a cartoon fair? Conferences? Local "special interest" group meetings? LinkedIn? Craigslist? Recommendations through friends? Parties at the local arts college?
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story
BitGeek
2007-04-22T11:02:21
Doing a Startup vs. Building a Business
null
http://blog.circleshare.com/index.php?/archives/48-Doing-a-Startup-vs.-Building-a-company.html
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BitGeek
2007-04-22T11:10:13
null
This article highlights an area of confusion, I think. Of course, any new business is a startup. So, even your aunts diner that is opening soon is a startup.<p>But when we talk about a "startup" here generally we're talking about a technology startup, or mroe specifically, a web oriented technology startup.<p>But we're not necessarily talking about: Funding, organization, theoretical growth rates, etc, for that company.<p>So, I think the term "lifestyle business" should be banned or rejected by this community. Its a derogatory term used to apply to people who are chosing to go a different path, with the implicit assumption that that path is lame (eg: low growth, low chance of getting rich.) <p>There are certainly a lot of choices that founders have to make with regards to whether they are building a real business or not (EG: something sustainable that will make them rich even if a $10B+ company doesn't buy them in 24 months... rather than something that's a feature built to flip to someone with a real product offering.) ... and funding, location, team size, team composition (eg: when to hire marketing or sales people), etc are all independant of whether you're building a business.<p>You could bootstrap a company built to flip, or you could use VC money to do it. You can use VC money to build a real business, or you can bootstrap a real business.<p>But I believe, strongly, that building a real business is the only way to go-- its the most likely path to getting flipped, and its the way you will end up with something more than an adrenaline hangover after 24 months. <p>I hope this is making sense... <p>In summary, focusing on the business is the path to success... and recognizing all of these choices (including who to take money from) have advantages and disadvantages for the business case. For instance, one option might make great short term financial sense but be damaging in the long term-- if its a build to flip situation then you don't care about the long term. But in making that choice, you're risking the flip taking longer than expected....<p>So, build a business.<p>PS-- Justification for this long post: I was recently talking to a startup, and they are totally focused on being acquired within the next 18 months. Thats their plan. Their only plan. Every decision they make is with that assumption, and they are going to be in a world of pain 24 months from now if they aren't acquired in that time period. Worse, I think that if the followed a the right strategy, between 18 and 48 months from now they'd grow from a $250M business to a $4B business.
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comment
BitGeek
2007-04-22T11:27:17
null
Man, I'm amazed at the bitching here... Someone's trying to help foster startups in europe! The horror! There's no way it can be decent, right? Jesus.....<p>Its not like the idea of doing early stage funding is that new, nor is the idea of havign an application form new. Ok, so the questions may not be original-- but that's flattery, its not like the YC form is a trade secret! <p>Getting startups together for a fixed period in a fixed place is relatively new, and seems to be a YC idea. Ok, so what does it mean when others emulate this? IT means they think its a good idea! How does this hurt YC?<p>YC is evangelizing a different approach to early stage funding. Now others are emulating the idea-- there is no way in hell that this can be a bad thing!<p>This is called success!<p>Do y'all who were rejected by YC hate the fact that there are now other options?<p>Or do you think that these people are going to steal all the "good" startups from YC diminishing their pool?
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BitGeek
2007-04-22T11:38:50
null
If %50 of the value of YC is the fact that they require startups to locate in Boston or SF, then any startup who doesn't get into YC can get %60 of the benefit by simply relocating. <p>Seriously, I hope that %50 of the "benefit" of YC is not moveing to an expensive location where every resource you could need for a business is constrained. <p>I've seen no evidence that locating outside of SF or MA reduces your chances of success. (Though this is often claimed, of course.)<p>
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BitGeek
2007-04-22T11:41:01
null
enki-<p>You need to set up a forum for prospective YEurope startups to communicate about the idea. I don't think this discussion is going to happen on this thread.
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sharpshoot
2007-04-22T11:53:30
null
Thanks. Another reason why one should never go for the .net
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comment
enki
2007-04-22T11:59:44
null
great idea! <p>i've set up a google group (both forum and mailinglist) at <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/yeurope/">http://groups.google.com/group/yeurope/</a><p>i'll link this from the main yeurope page too, after getting some well deserved (i hope) rest.<p>i'm not sure if ggroups is the perfect communication medium - better ideas welcome! if you want to insta-chat with us, we're big fans of jabber. my jid is [email protected]. lets hope feedback stays on a sane volume so i can directly stay in touch with all of you.<p>paul
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Tichy
2007-04-22T12:11:49
null
Chill out - I haven't watched the video, but if those were free granola bars, how can you steal them? You can only "steal" them. It is just being cheeky.
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comment
Tichy
2007-04-22T12:17:35
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It's an opportunity to learn a lesson: people in general are mean, or at least they are often different from you. While it can be frustrating, maybe it's better to know the truth than to live on in an illusion. Especially as an entrepreneur you have to harden against rejection, because you will face a lot of it. In general, nobody will understand you - otherwise, somebody else would already have done the thing you are going to do.<p>Overall the whole karma thing is a bit weird, as I realized yesterday when I submitted the link to Steve Jobs speech in Stanford. I found the speech really touching and felt somehow bad for getting karma for his achievement - as if I am leeching karma. Probably karma is an unlimited resource in the universe (and especially in a LISP application, as the integer type doesn't seem to have a limit in LISP) and it doesn't quite work in that way (to gain karma, you don't need to steal it from someone else). But still...
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Tichy
2007-04-22T12:21:58
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That article made me try out Google calendar, but I am severely disappointed. It really is just a calendar - duh... I would have expected an Outlook replacement with task lists and stuff like that. The functionality seems to be the bare minimum. I haven't tried to share my calendar, though.
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enki
2007-04-22T12:23:00
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btw. this is an awesome quote from the aho report:<p>"Apart from more resources for R&D and innovation, a paradigm change that would preserve European values in a new social structure is needed for the achievement of the goal of an Innovative Europe." - Aho Group Report "Creating an Innovative Europe" (January 2006)
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markovich
2007-04-22T12:26:42
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Hello Paul,<p>Your idea is interesting, but frankly, I don't get it. Your resume and your website do not hint at your having the money to sponsor the groups. You do not tell us how giving up a percentage of our companies is going to benefit us. The money is small - I could work on the side and make that money every month.<p>What is not clear is this:<p>1. Do you have the money for this? If so, from where? If a piece of software needed additional funding after 6 months, would you be able to do this (like pg put 50.000 in justin.tv)<p>2. Do you have the marketing reach? Will affiliating myself with you give me greater marketing strength?<p>3. Do you have access to legal information and advice? Can you offer this to your startups?<p>4. Do you have any connections to Venture Capital? Do you _know_ about venture capital, such as to give good or bad advice?
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Goladus
2007-04-22T12:44:04
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I agree, the downmodding of Juwo is a bit out of hand. He shamelessly self-promotes and seems to have some difficulty communicating sometimes, and many of his downmods are probably earned. But it seems overboard to me. It really feels like people are singling him out to evaluate bad comments, in cases where other posters' bad comments would just be ignored. He is getting an unfair level of attention.<p>It's not like he's a slashdot-digg swarm drowning out reasonable discussion. He's enthusiastic, respects this community a lot, and the site won't particularly be any better if he leaves.<p>It seems to me a lot like the cool kids not letting Juwo sit at their table.<p><a href="http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_79.php">http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_79.php</a> <p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html">http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html</a><p>
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yaacovtp
2007-04-22T12:53:55
iilwy guys know how to listen to feedback
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http://iminlikewithyou.com/
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yaacovtp
2007-04-22T12:56:58
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I'm assuming more people than just me asked for some extra features, such as more distance searching options, sort users by game times etc. 3 times I've submitted feedback and 3 times my requests have been implemented within 36 hours.<p>Keep up the good work.
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Benja
2007-04-22T12:59:10
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Thanks for the answers! :-)
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