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comment
phony_identity
2007-04-17T17:52:45
null
Idiot. <p>People, we need a succinct term for non-technical people who think they have a lot to contribute to startups. You can't call them suits or MBAs because most of them didn't go to B-school and don't wear suits. Any thoughts?
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JMiao
2007-04-17T18:05:16
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Zaid, it's not about whether people will notice it -- they WILL notice it because it's catchy and memorable. Calling the logo out is irrelevant because the logo works in regards to weddings.
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story
usablecontent
2007-04-17T18:07:18
Youtube Soon To Launch Claim Your Content
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http://startupmeme.com/2007/04/17/youtube-soon-to-launch-claim-your-content/
1
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13,702
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omouse
2007-04-17T18:08:18
null
AJAX login wouldn't be bad, but I'd prefer AJAX voting. A page reload forces you to hunt down the comment thread you were just reading.
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[ 13797, 20033 ]
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Readmore
2007-04-17T18:10:56
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true
13,705
comment
brlewis
2007-04-17T18:14:05
null
There are at least two good Scheme implementations on the Java platform: the Kawa compiler and the SISC interpreter. I have substantial experience with the former and hear only good things about the latter.
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lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T18:15:17
null
I totally agree with you that it's idiotic to say that all the tools have been created. I think that all the obvious tools have been created and the challenge is now to find the new ones that we've always wanted but weren't previously able to build.<p>I-and I suspect everyone else reading YC News-can probably think of dozens of tools that I'd love to see (and if you're a reader you've probably thought about this too and are thinking of starting a company to build this tool).
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patryn20
2007-04-17T18:17:43
null
Maybe a lot of startups also need to realize that an enthusiastic person with years of experience and an incomplete degree is better than most college graduates with no real-world experience. <p>Seriously. The amount of degree snobbery in these startups founded by Stanford (and other top-level school) graduates is ridiculous. They are turning down tons of great developers everyday, most likely.
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comment
lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T18:26:30
null
I totally agree with this. Think about how much it cost to start a business even seven years ago: you had to buy servers and dev tools, etc.<p>Now you can test an idea for a few thousand dollars and a couple of weeks time by a few people; the market will tell you if it works or not and you're off.<p>If it doesn't work, who cares-at least you tried and didn't waste too long at it.
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phony_identity
2007-04-17T18:27:51
null
These guys are doomed.<p>To repeat what I've said elsewhere: we need a succinct term for non-technical people who think they should be doing startups and just have to find some programmers to realize their visions. You can't call them suits or MBAs because most of them didn't go to B-school and don't wear suits. What to call them?
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[ 13915, 13715 ]
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13,710
comment
jamongkad
2007-04-17T18:29:13
null
Let me rephrase my question....would you rather have your own web server for your app? Or would you rather have it hosted remotely? which is cheaper? which is better in the in long run?
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11,915
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lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T18:30:13
null
It'll be interesting to see if OpenMoko can make a start of it. I used to work in the wireless business and nobody is going to put their operating systems on their phone.<p>What will be interesting is whether they can be the operating system that a bunch of the Taiwanese ODMs use to become serious players in branded handsets (rather than just making them for other people).
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[ 15363 ]
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comment
lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T18:32:01
null
I love my Blackberry interace-and it does multi app support no problem (I frequently flip between GMail, my browser, Google Maps and my email inbox).<p>Anyone else here love their Blackberry interace or hate it? Anyone here have an interface they like (and why)?
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comment
jey
2007-04-17T18:40:25
null
How? there isn't any link on juwo.com to the actual product.
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[ 14259 ]
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comment
lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T18:40:26
null
As someone who's looking for talent, let me ask you what you'd be looking for. Here's what I think high quality developers are looking for; I'd love your thoughts on whether I'm out to lunch or not: 1) Chance to be part of a great engineering team 2) Chance to solve complex problems facing users 3) Opportunity to push the limits of what's possible with technology 4) Ability to influence company's strategy and design<p>Let me know your thoughts.
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lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T18:42:22
null
What about "Free Lunchers"? They think that it's a hot market so they can easily create a company and then flip it for some cash?
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13,709
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comment
Wintermute
2007-04-17T19:00:11
null
Post your Beta to Ycombinator news. No shortage of strong opinions here.
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[ 14005 ]
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Alex3917
2007-04-17T19:05:32
null
I agree too. :-)<p>When I said: "Today, all the good tools already been taken."<p>I meant for obvious to be included as part of good. Of course there are literally more tools to be made, but there are probably easier ways to create value than finding the one perfect tool that no one's thought of yet.
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comment
__
2007-04-17T19:11:05
null
A strong tea, like Irish breakfast or lapsang souchong.
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comment
ericesquire
2007-04-17T19:11:25
null
By reading some of the comments there...it created quite the stir. Lot's of varied opinions.
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story
Readmore
2007-04-17T19:11:39
Google launching an Online Presentation App at Web 2.0
null
http://www.webware.com/8301-1_109-9709593-2.html?tag=blog
17
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Readmore
2007-04-17T19:13:18
Vidoop - Passwords in a Picture
null
http://www.webware.com/8301-1_109-9709341-2.html?tag=blog
3
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comment
gibsonf1
2007-04-17T19:13:56
null
A fascinating company. Their use of teams created based on interest and need is a great idea, especially for retaining top talent and keeping them engaged. The one issue is how they decide on what to pursue - the article makes it sound like they invent things and then try to sell them rather than having their inventions driven by the values people are looking for. Actually, I guess their model is to make a better version of existing products: Gore-tex, a better version in fabrics, Glide, a better version of dental floss, Elixir, a better version of guitar strings.
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comment
aston
2007-04-17T19:14:50
null
I think your list cuts across the spectrum too broadly. Younger, more inexperienced developers should be looking, number one, to work with people who know a ton more than they do so that they can learn from the greats. Older, more experienced devs will want more influence on design (although maybe not strategy). <p>I think the solving complex problems part is not a real factor. Every business has its problems, and most of them are non-trivial (otherwise, everyone would be in the business), so while it's maybe your job to convince someone that your problems are worth solving, it's not necessary to prove that your problems are hard.<p>I also think most hackers get less joy out of pushing technology to the limits and more joy out of doing something well. Sometimes those may coincide (scaling Rails, for example) but often times pushing technology to the limits means you're not solving the problem elegantly/economically. Take Google for example; they've got the most powerful distributed computation system in the world, but it's done on some really crappy PC's.
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jkush
2007-04-17T19:16:04
null
What does this do for zenter.com?
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comment
Readmore
2007-04-17T19:18:52
null
This is a big blow to all the online presentation apps just like Google Calendar was to all the Web 2.0 Calendars. It won't be an 'Office Killer' however, until all of their apps can work together well. When you can make a chart in Google Spreadsheets and then copy it into Google Docs or Google Pres(??) easily. Then we'll have an interesting fight on our hands.
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comment
mattculbreth
2007-04-17T19:19:13
null
Ugh. I really hope Zenter doesn't get Kikoed. Hopefully they've got some additional features over the Google offering.
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comment
pg
2007-04-17T19:26:01
null
I've been resisting the idea, but I have to say that this is starting to feel like another Bubble.
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13,728
comment
bls
2007-04-17T19:28:36
null
Scribd managed to get 9 front-page links on Digg, and a couple on Reddit, in the last month. That is why their traffic is up so fast. Personally, I assumed that the Scribd guys were posting these high-traffic pages themselves in order to get noticed by diggers and redditers.<p>Every scribd page that I looked at (from Reddit and Digg) could have been done just as well (and in some cases, substantially better) as HTML, using any blogging software (e.g. WordPress, blogger.com) instead of Scribd. The value-added features it offers (basically, a worse-is-better reimplementation of Adobe Acrobat, and collaborative editing) only caused me discomfort.<p>
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comment
JMiao
2007-04-17T19:31:01
null
Mozilla's been extending the functionality of Firefox in a unique direction. First you have The Coop (user avatars, stepping on the toes of the Flock browser) and now eBay tools.
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comment
phony_identity
2007-04-17T19:38:44
null
"...YC seemed almost like the Medici of Florence... bringing all the great minds together from many fields created an unstoppable momentum of achievement." <p>Wow. That's really a great comparison. Given Paul's experience with Florence and knowledge of history, that might have crossed his mind too.
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comment
richcollins
2007-04-17T19:40:44
null
How is it different? Click - Enter Auth info - Press Submit.<p>If you let the browser save your password then you only have to click once.<p>What we do need is a remember me feature.
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comment
veritas
2007-04-17T19:44:48
null
Initial reaction: Zenter is dead in the water even if it has more features. Google's brand name alone will be enough to propel it to the top and Google obviously has the technical muscle to make up ground pretty damn fast.
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[ 13733 ]
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comment
brlewis
2007-04-17T19:48:40
null
I disagree. Calendars have a large social component; creating presentations does not. If Zenter has features that appeal to people who create presentations, then it will do well.<p>Using the same calendar system others use helps. Using the same presentation system mostly doesn't.
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comment
Alex3917
2007-04-17T19:49:04
null
completely irrelevant. :-)
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comment
jkush
2007-04-17T19:56:30
null
Great point. I hope it's true for Zenter.
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story
jslogan
2007-04-17T19:57:50
Here's what a real marketing and sales campagin looks like
null
http://www.jslogan.com/content/view/153/
4
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Readmore
2007-04-17T20:00:07
null
I agree but I don't think we'll see the same kind of fallout as last time. The fact that we (app devs), can maintain sites with much less cost means that even if people go bust with stupid ideas it should be much easier for good ones to weather the storm.
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comment
brett
2007-04-17T20:13:21
null
That may be true of how people currently use presentation software, but inside of organizations people share decks and slides very frequently and it's a pain. Presentation software probably <i>should</i> be highly collaborative even if existing options are not.
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ido
2007-04-17T20:13:51
Your Opinion on Groovy on Grails?
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comment
ido
2007-04-17T20:14:20
null
Anybody using it and has some tips & pointers?
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comment
brett
2007-04-17T20:15:24
null
I hope the same and believe they've still got a shot. They could not have entered the space without knowing this is something Google's probably working on.
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story
amichail
2007-04-17T20:16:46
How Google could get thousands of open-source developers working for free
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2
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[ 13744, 13749 ]
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comment
mdakin
2007-04-17T20:17:51
null
The reason to use XHTML is simple: high-quality open source tools for processing XML documents exist and work well. You can find good XML processing tools for whatever language/platform you want. High quality SGML processing tools are much less common. I'm willing to take the overhead associated with doing an XHTML to HTML 4.01 conversion as the last step of the process in order to be able to use clean, high-quality, reliable tools for the harder parts.
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comment
amichail
2007-04-17T20:18:16
null
The idea is to use a social news site whereby developers would submit their open-source projects and only Google employees would be able to vote although the results would be made public.<p>If you are working on something that Google cares about, then you will be encouraged to pursue it harder to increase your chances of landing a job at Google.<p>
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[ 14022, 14027 ]
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story
jcwentz
2007-04-17T20:21:12
Poll results: 50.4% of respondents maximise browser windows
null
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200704/poll_results_504_of_respondents_maximise_windows/
1
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13,745
0
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null
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comment
brett
2007-04-17T20:21:40
null
28 million users? Has anyone even heard of them before?<p>The premium account seems to add features that are anti-community fostering. If you're working on a social network I would think it's a bad thing if a writeup about you includes the phrase "snooping features".
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[ 13748 ]
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comment
dpapathanasiou
2007-04-17T20:21:51
null
Not yet, because the exit isn't as obvious.<p>In the last bubble, you had some control over the process (there was a brief window when anything "Internet" could be sold to institutional buyers via an IPO).<p>Right now it's all acquisitions: dumb deals will get made, but in general, the buyers tend to be much savvier (and warier).<p>Also funding does not equal payoff. <p>If anything, they've just created a huge burden for themselves because the payoff has to be orders of magnitude higher to satisfy their investors.
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comment
jcwentz
2007-04-17T20:23:43
null
That is very fishy. Where can that 28m number come from? From some popular widget they bought or something?
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comment
dpapathanasiou
2007-04-17T20:25:29
null
Have you heard of Summer of Code?
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comment
gyro_robo
2007-04-17T20:26:36
null
Imagine if someone had jumped in 5-7 years ago...
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comment
Tichy
2007-04-17T20:28:13
null
Whereas you are in the market for the hard work, I suppose?
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[ 13795 ]
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story
sabat
2007-04-17T20:28:22
Startup Company Form: LLC or S-Corp? Which is easier and which is better?
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31
[ 13784, 13908, 13774, 14342, 13799, 13769, 13753 ]
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comment
sabat
2007-04-17T20:29:22
null
An LLC has less overhead, from what I understand, but maybe there are buyout/VC implications? What do most startups do these days?
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[ 13761 ]
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comment
sabat
2007-04-17T20:30:46
null
Search! Search!
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363
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[ 16258 ]
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comment
cyu
2007-04-17T20:31:27
null
You shouldn't blindly implement features just because your users are telling you to do so. While it is important to listen and react to your user's concerns, it's also your responsibility to maintain the integrity/consistency of the application. Also, if you don't believe that the feature you're building is going to have any effect, then it's already heading towards failure because you're not going to be committed to its success.<p>I agree with jkush -- if you don't agree with the user, you should engage the user and see if you can get the feature to a common ground that you can agree with.<p>Also, if your feedback loop is just an email, maybe you should add a forum to make the loop more interactive.
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[ 13785 ]
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story
sabat
2007-04-17T20:31:49
Amazon EC2:doing for VMs what S3 did for storage
null
http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=201590011
2
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13,756
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comment
dawie
2007-04-17T20:34:02
null
Interesting how google announces these days and not just release like before..
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comment
veritas
2007-04-17T20:34:56
null
Good point, but as long as Google provides the essentials for creating online presentations, it will win easily. Just ask someone out on the street who they'd trust more to do a good job with their presentations: Google or Zenter? My money is that the majority (by a large amount) will say Google simply because of the name. In reality, everyone on YCNews and TechCrunch are startup obsessed, tech obsessed early adopters. We have no problem choosing Zenter over Google if Zenter is a good product. Normal people, however, will, more often than not, gravitate towards Google.
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comment
amichail
2007-04-17T20:37:34
null
Yes, but that would not be getting people to work for free.
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[ 13772 ]
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comment
abstractbill
2007-04-17T20:38:29
null
Out of interest, do you think anything about YC would be likely to change if this did turn out to be Bubble2.0? Would you be likely to scale it back, or to continue funding companies and hope that some of them could ride out the storm for however many years it takes?
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[ 13983, 13849 ]
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comment
gibsonf1
2007-04-17T20:40:49
null
We went for a California LLC after doing a few weeks of research. It is the easiest structure we could find with the least expense. We don't know what the future funding implications are for it though.
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[ 13767 ]
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comment
ramen
2007-04-17T20:44:58
null
Beware of hyperbole.
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story
amichail
2007-04-17T20:47:40
Making America safer: survellance cameras with guns
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4
null
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18
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comment
amichail
2007-04-17T20:48:33
null
Like in London, you could have surveillance cameras everywhere. But add guns on them as well to prevent/limit crime.
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[ 13845, 13766, 13780 ]
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comment
zaidf
2007-04-17T20:52:02
null
That is precisely why it isn't a bubble:) When you can see a bubble, you can avoid it while others go down when it bursts.
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[ 13922, 13777 ]
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comment
veritas
2007-04-17T20:53:24
null
Yep... and all those CCTV cameras are doing wonders in London right?
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13,767
comment
felipe
2007-04-17T20:54:25
null
I heard that a LLC can be converted to a Corp when you get funded. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not 100% sure about it.
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comment
jason13
2007-04-17T20:55:14
null
It is not that the average person will trust google over zenter, as much as the average person, will not even know that zenter exists. Its hard to give someone a chance, if you don't even know they exist.
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comment
Mistone
2007-04-17T20:57:33
null
if you take money from investors they will require you to be a C-Corp. If this path is in your plans, it is probably easiest to start off this way.
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[ 13783 ]
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comment
zaidf
2007-04-17T20:58:02
null
I hope to be dead before such a thing is put in place.
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[ 13840 ]
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comment
JMiao
2007-04-17T20:58:25
null
I think you're thinking in the right direction. You may also consider how e-mail and calendar use cases are tied closely together.<p>I'm not sold on how Google can leverage their offerings (aside from better image searching) to make as strong of a case in presentation software as they did with online calendars.
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comment
dpapathanasiou
2007-04-17T20:59:46
null
Ok, strictly speaking, SoC is not free.<p>But SoC stipends are tiny, <i>almost</i> free.<p>Also, remember that Google vets each proposal, so they're funding those projects they'll be able to leverage in code, people (SoC is a great recruiting tool), or both.<p>The result of SoC is not so different from what you've suggested.
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13,759
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[ 13803 ]
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comment
Tichy
2007-04-17T20:59:57
null
Believe me, it is possible to write very bad code with Java, and you can see the (huge) differences between Java code written by good and bad programmers.<p>I don't understand "people will only code what you let them code", how is that?
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13,695
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[ 13947 ]
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comment
dpapathanasiou
2007-04-17T21:00:35
null
Dharmesh Shah wrote about this recently: <a href="http://onstartups.com/home/tabid/3339/bid/1303/Startup-101-Should-You-Form-An-Inc-or-LLC.aspx">http://onstartups.com/home/tabid/3339/bid/1303/Startup-101-Should-You-Form-An-Inc-or-LLC.aspx</a>
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story
Tichy
2007-04-17T21:00:46
How long does it take you to learn a new programming language (on average)?
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8
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13,775
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comment
davidw
2007-04-17T21:03:52
null
startupping.com has had some chatter about this in its forums as well. That site tends to have some good practical discussions like this, and other things as well. It's a nice complement to this one.
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comment
JMiao
2007-04-17T21:04:13
null
Interesting to see if that's what people were thinking in 1999.
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13,765
13,660
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[ 13802 ]
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comment
dpapathanasiou
2007-04-17T21:04:53
null
Hmmm... Didn't you say something about a Web 2.0 bubble?
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13,131
13,125
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comment
MobileDigit
2007-04-17T21:06:00
null
Isn't it going to depend on what programming languages you already know as well as what programming language it is?<p>Even if you took the average I don't know if it would lead to a useful statistic.
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13,775
13,775
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[ 13788 ]
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comment
dpapathanasiou
2007-04-17T21:07:04
null
This is a joke, right?
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[ 13781 ]
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comment
amichail
2007-04-17T21:07:43
null
Do you have any better ideas?
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13,780
13,763
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[ 13850, 13851 ]
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comment
JMiao
2007-04-17T21:08:04
null
It's very possible you're missing the point, unless the users are spamming you guys, which, in that case, would be your fault for not wisely selecting a private beta.<p>What do you mean by bad feedback? In most cases, "bad feedback" occurs when startups disagree with their users. "You'll see," they say. Well, you know how that story ends.
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13,650
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comment
timg
2007-04-17T21:08:31
null
I went for a Delaware C-Corp. Costed me $300 to incorporate + 30 in annual fees, so far for the first year. This was a relatively large expense for me so let's hope it was worth it.
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[ 13793 ]
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comment
pg
2007-04-17T21:11:37
null
Ordinarily a startup should be a C corp. It's cheaper to be an LLC, but if you plan to succeed, you may as well do things right from the start.<p>With an LLC profits don't get taxed twice like in a regular corporation. So it makes sense to be an LLC if you expect to have substantial profits, but don't expect to grant options, sell shares, or get bought. Consulting firms and law partnerships are often LLCs. YC is an LLC.
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comment
timg
2007-04-17T21:17:27
null
"engage the user and see if you can get the feature to a common ground"<p>Yes, this is what I'm asking. In direct marketing for example, there are ways that success can be scientifically measured. I am wondering if any of you have used more methodical approaches to improving applications -- or if it's just guess and find out if it worked 2 months from now.<p>The reason for this is that I just don't always trust users to think deeply enough of the problem for them to know what they want.
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13,650
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[ 13800 ]
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story
usablecontent
2007-04-17T21:18:19
Google Acquires Tonic Systems, Announces Presentation App
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http://startupmeme.com/2007/04/17/google-acquires-tonic-systems-announces-presentation-app/
3
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0
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comment
ashu
2007-04-17T21:21:08
null
I have no idea what features this app from Google has, but from what I have seen so far, Zenter kicks ass! It's not about which app has "more" features, it's about how effectively one can present using such an app.
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[ 13821 ]
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comment
Tichy
2007-04-17T21:24:31
null
Maybe I shouldn't have written "average" then, perhaps we can get an impression. And I am not sure if it depends on the programming languages you already know - maybe it mostly depends on knowing at least one language? I know it is all very fuzzy, for example what does it mean to know Java - surely not to know all available libraries by heart. But maybe people here can give an intuitive answer to the question?<p>My own estimate would be about a week (I can program after a few hours of course, but not with as much confidence as after a week).
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13,779
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[ 13841 ]
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story
bootload
2007-04-17T21:27:16
User generated content biggest threat to media
null
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070417-survey-user-generated-content-biggest-worry-opportunity-for-media-companies.html
1
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13,789
0
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13,790
story
bootload
2007-04-17T21:29:27
Wisdom of unhealthy crowds
null
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070416-the-wisdom-of-unhealthy-crowds-web-2-0-takes-on-the-flu.html
2
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13,790
0
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null
13,791
story
bootload
2007-04-17T21:30:09
Data on Participatory Web
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http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_20_expo_data.php
1
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13,791
0
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13,792
story
bootload
2007-04-17T21:32:21
Eric Schmidt Interview
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http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_20_expo_eric_schmidt.php
1
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0
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comment
lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T21:33:01
null
You should be able to get your annual fees down below $300 - it should only be about 1/2 that
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comment
danw
2007-04-17T21:34:28
null
I would imagine they would still be trying to get operators to adopt the OS. Mobile is tricky and slow, it's only now starting to open up.
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lindsayrgwatt
2007-04-17T21:34:34
null
I prefer to think of it as being in the market because you've a passion to solve a problem. There's going to be hard work involved in solving a real problem that people are facing and solving it in a way that's pleasant for the average user.
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story
bootload
2007-04-17T21:35:01
Google Prepares a Presentation Tool (Presently)
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http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2007/02/google-presently.html
1
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0
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comment
gyro_robo
2007-04-17T21:36:28
null
Also the links keep expiring. If I open multiple tabs, by the time I get to some of them all the links are invalidated. IIRC, same thing if taking "too long" to write a comment.
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JMiao
2007-04-17T21:37:40
null
I agree, but how does Google leverage their existing products and promote collaboration with presentation software? Google Calendar worked because planning and sharing events/meetings makes sense to be integrated with GMail.<p>As I've said before, I think this is going to be a different story because, while collaboration brings a lot of value to presentation software users, I can't see a killer app that Google can leverage beyond Image Search that would make their product a must-have. Zenter has done a great job making a connected presentation app with a very slick Google Search-based image import tool.<p>Pound for pound, I think Zenter has a fighting chance as long as it keeps innovating on the feature front. Don't forget that collaborative presentations will likely give rise to a slide sharing community (i.e. slideshare.net), so there's more to online presentation software than the app itself.
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edgeztv
2007-04-17T21:39:37
null
What exactly is the reporting/paperwork required for a C-corp (which people mention as more overhead than LLC)?
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[ 13839, 13842 ]
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