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z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuemgl
|
ixujm46
| 1,669,467,752 | 1,669,470,870 | 3 | 12 |
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
|
My wife took a year off between undergrad and grad school and backpacked around Europe for nine months. She got her PhD by the time she was 27. Travelling and schooling in the same decade aren’t mutually exclusive things.
| 0 | 3,118 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixujm46
|
ixuhztn
| 1,669,470,870 | 1,669,469,914 | 12 | 4 |
My wife took a year off between undergrad and grad school and backpacked around Europe for nine months. She got her PhD by the time she was 27. Travelling and schooling in the same decade aren’t mutually exclusive things.
|
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
| 1 | 956 | 3 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuewil
|
ixujm46
| 1,669,467,948 | 1,669,470,870 | 3 | 12 |
Do a PhD in Europe
|
My wife took a year off between undergrad and grad school and backpacked around Europe for nine months. She got her PhD by the time she was 27. Travelling and schooling in the same decade aren’t mutually exclusive things.
| 0 | 2,922 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixu7n5p
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,462,414 | 12 | 11 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
A phd is an adventure
| 1 | 9,217 | 1.090909 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixucs1w
|
ixukx7n
| 1,669,466,459 | 1,669,471,631 | 10 | 12 |
A PhD should be done only if you have absolute clarity on what you want to do. If you have that then no it's not a sacrifice. If you don't, then get a Master's, work for some time and then re-evaluate. The experience will only aid your admission potential.
|
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
| 0 | 5,172 | 1.2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixugxbs
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,469,259 | 12 | 6 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
Is one option to have a gap year? So get a PhD program sorted for a year later and then have a whole year to earn money and fit in loads of travel and fun? I completely agree that travelling early is better than travelling late, youth hostels are awesome when you are young and not so much when you are older.
| 1 | 2,372 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixui5ck
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,470,006 | 12 | 5 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
You should only do a PhD if you are ready and it’s really what you want to do. The grad programs will still be there if you wait a few years.
| 1 | 1,625 | 2.4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixudnxn
|
ixukx7n
| 1,669,467,087 | 1,669,471,631 | 5 | 12 |
Only you can answer this question. Which will you regret more? Not travelling or not getting a PhD? Only you can answer that. Not that its a binary. I've travelled more I my 30s than I did in my 20s because I have more money. I could have gotten my PhD in my 30s instead of my 20s.
|
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
| 0 | 4,544 | 2.4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixuhjrg
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,469,643 | 12 | 6 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
Your 20s are the time to pursue education and figure out how you are going to make the world a better place. A personal philosophy of going on vacation is a very odd way of describing something. IMO, you will regret not getting the phd while you are young..
| 1 | 1,988 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixuemgl
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,467,752 | 12 | 3 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
| 1 | 3,879 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixuhztn
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,469,914 | 12 | 4 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
| 1 | 1,717 | 3 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixuewil
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,467,948 | 12 | 3 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
Do a PhD in Europe
| 1 | 3,683 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixukx7n
|
ixujnpt
| 1,669,471,631 | 1,669,470,896 | 12 | 3 |
If you REALLY want a PhD, I’d say early 20s is easier than late 20s or early 30s especially if you want to start a family. If you are in the US, biomed PhD takes 4-5 years and the stipend is not enough to support a family (unless your partner has a job with a decent salary).
|
I have a personal philosophy to do bad ass shit bro
| 1 | 735 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixu7n5p
|
ixumiud
| 1,669,462,414 | 1,669,472,529 | 11 | 12 |
A phd is an adventure
|
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
| 0 | 10,115 | 1.090909 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixumiud
|
ixucs1w
| 1,669,472,529 | 1,669,466,459 | 12 | 10 |
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
|
A PhD should be done only if you have absolute clarity on what you want to do. If you have that then no it's not a sacrifice. If you don't, then get a Master's, work for some time and then re-evaluate. The experience will only aid your admission potential.
| 1 | 6,070 | 1.2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixugxbs
|
ixumiud
| 1,669,469,259 | 1,669,472,529 | 6 | 12 |
Is one option to have a gap year? So get a PhD program sorted for a year later and then have a whole year to earn money and fit in loads of travel and fun? I completely agree that travelling early is better than travelling late, youth hostels are awesome when you are young and not so much when you are older.
|
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
| 0 | 3,270 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixui5ck
|
ixumiud
| 1,669,470,006 | 1,669,472,529 | 5 | 12 |
You should only do a PhD if you are ready and it’s really what you want to do. The grad programs will still be there if you wait a few years.
|
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
| 0 | 2,523 | 2.4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixumiud
|
ixudnxn
| 1,669,472,529 | 1,669,467,087 | 12 | 5 |
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
|
Only you can answer this question. Which will you regret more? Not travelling or not getting a PhD? Only you can answer that. Not that its a binary. I've travelled more I my 30s than I did in my 20s because I have more money. I could have gotten my PhD in my 30s instead of my 20s.
| 1 | 5,442 | 2.4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuhjrg
|
ixumiud
| 1,669,469,643 | 1,669,472,529 | 6 | 12 |
Your 20s are the time to pursue education and figure out how you are going to make the world a better place. A personal philosophy of going on vacation is a very odd way of describing something. IMO, you will regret not getting the phd while you are young..
|
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
| 0 | 2,886 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixumiud
|
ixuemgl
| 1,669,472,529 | 1,669,467,752 | 12 | 3 |
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
|
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
| 1 | 4,777 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuhztn
|
ixumiud
| 1,669,469,914 | 1,669,472,529 | 4 | 12 |
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
|
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
| 0 | 2,615 | 3 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixumiud
|
ixuewil
| 1,669,472,529 | 1,669,467,948 | 12 | 3 |
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
|
Do a PhD in Europe
| 1 | 4,581 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixumiud
|
ixujnpt
| 1,669,472,529 | 1,669,470,896 | 12 | 3 |
That's cute that you think you'll only have to give up your early 20s on the PhD path. I'm in my early to mid 30s and I just now landed my first faculty position.
|
I have a personal philosophy to do bad ass shit bro
| 1 | 1,633 | 4 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixutvxi
|
ixugxbs
| 1,669,476,268 | 1,669,469,259 | 10 | 6 |
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
|
Is one option to have a gap year? So get a PhD program sorted for a year later and then have a whole year to earn money and fit in loads of travel and fun? I completely agree that travelling early is better than travelling late, youth hostels are awesome when you are young and not so much when you are older.
| 1 | 7,009 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixutvxi
|
ixui5ck
| 1,669,476,268 | 1,669,470,006 | 10 | 5 |
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
|
You should only do a PhD if you are ready and it’s really what you want to do. The grad programs will still be there if you wait a few years.
| 1 | 6,262 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixudnxn
|
ixutvxi
| 1,669,467,087 | 1,669,476,268 | 5 | 10 |
Only you can answer this question. Which will you regret more? Not travelling or not getting a PhD? Only you can answer that. Not that its a binary. I've travelled more I my 30s than I did in my 20s because I have more money. I could have gotten my PhD in my 30s instead of my 20s.
|
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
| 0 | 9,181 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixutvxi
|
ixuhjrg
| 1,669,476,268 | 1,669,469,643 | 10 | 6 |
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
|
Your 20s are the time to pursue education and figure out how you are going to make the world a better place. A personal philosophy of going on vacation is a very odd way of describing something. IMO, you will regret not getting the phd while you are young..
| 1 | 6,625 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuemgl
|
ixutvxi
| 1,669,467,752 | 1,669,476,268 | 3 | 10 |
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
|
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
| 0 | 8,516 | 3.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixutvxi
|
ixuhztn
| 1,669,476,268 | 1,669,469,914 | 10 | 4 |
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
|
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
| 1 | 6,354 | 2.5 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixutvxi
|
ixuewil
| 1,669,476,268 | 1,669,467,948 | 10 | 3 |
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
|
Do a PhD in Europe
| 1 | 8,320 | 3.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixujnpt
|
ixutvxi
| 1,669,470,896 | 1,669,476,268 | 3 | 10 |
I have a personal philosophy to do bad ass shit bro
|
Look I sacrificed my early 20s to halfway finish a degree in film production and went on to work in kitchens for 6 years while moping about the wasted time. And no traveling either. Now I'm going back to pursue what will hopefully lead to a PhD in neuroscience because that's what I want and feel is best for me now. Just know there's no set timeline for your life, and you can be adventurous, advance your career, or start a family at whatever point you feel it's best for you. Nothing special about your early 20s that should limit your options.
| 0 | 5,372 | 3.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixudnxn
|
ixugxbs
| 1,669,467,087 | 1,669,469,259 | 5 | 6 |
Only you can answer this question. Which will you regret more? Not travelling or not getting a PhD? Only you can answer that. Not that its a binary. I've travelled more I my 30s than I did in my 20s because I have more money. I could have gotten my PhD in my 30s instead of my 20s.
|
Is one option to have a gap year? So get a PhD program sorted for a year later and then have a whole year to earn money and fit in loads of travel and fun? I completely agree that travelling early is better than travelling late, youth hostels are awesome when you are young and not so much when you are older.
| 0 | 2,172 | 1.2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuemgl
|
ixugxbs
| 1,669,467,752 | 1,669,469,259 | 3 | 6 |
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
|
Is one option to have a gap year? So get a PhD program sorted for a year later and then have a whole year to earn money and fit in loads of travel and fun? I completely agree that travelling early is better than travelling late, youth hostels are awesome when you are young and not so much when you are older.
| 0 | 1,507 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixugxbs
|
ixuewil
| 1,669,469,259 | 1,669,467,948 | 6 | 3 |
Is one option to have a gap year? So get a PhD program sorted for a year later and then have a whole year to earn money and fit in loads of travel and fun? I completely agree that travelling early is better than travelling late, youth hostels are awesome when you are young and not so much when you are older.
|
Do a PhD in Europe
| 1 | 1,311 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuemgl
|
ixui5ck
| 1,669,467,752 | 1,669,470,006 | 3 | 5 |
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
|
You should only do a PhD if you are ready and it’s really what you want to do. The grad programs will still be there if you wait a few years.
| 0 | 2,254 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuhztn
|
ixui5ck
| 1,669,469,914 | 1,669,470,006 | 4 | 5 |
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
|
You should only do a PhD if you are ready and it’s really what you want to do. The grad programs will still be there if you wait a few years.
| 0 | 92 | 1.25 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuewil
|
ixui5ck
| 1,669,467,948 | 1,669,470,006 | 3 | 5 |
Do a PhD in Europe
|
You should only do a PhD if you are ready and it’s really what you want to do. The grad programs will still be there if you wait a few years.
| 0 | 2,058 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuhjrg
|
ixudnxn
| 1,669,469,643 | 1,669,467,087 | 6 | 5 |
Your 20s are the time to pursue education and figure out how you are going to make the world a better place. A personal philosophy of going on vacation is a very odd way of describing something. IMO, you will regret not getting the phd while you are young..
|
Only you can answer this question. Which will you regret more? Not travelling or not getting a PhD? Only you can answer that. Not that its a binary. I've travelled more I my 30s than I did in my 20s because I have more money. I could have gotten my PhD in my 30s instead of my 20s.
| 1 | 2,556 | 1.2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuemgl
|
ixuhjrg
| 1,669,467,752 | 1,669,469,643 | 3 | 6 |
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
|
Your 20s are the time to pursue education and figure out how you are going to make the world a better place. A personal philosophy of going on vacation is a very odd way of describing something. IMO, you will regret not getting the phd while you are young..
| 0 | 1,891 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuewil
|
ixuhjrg
| 1,669,467,948 | 1,669,469,643 | 3 | 6 |
Do a PhD in Europe
|
Your 20s are the time to pursue education and figure out how you are going to make the world a better place. A personal philosophy of going on vacation is a very odd way of describing something. IMO, you will regret not getting the phd while you are young..
| 0 | 1,695 | 2 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuemgl
|
ixvbg14
| 1,669,467,752 | 1,669,484,204 | 3 | 5 |
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
|
You will almost certainly have to pay for your masters while PhDs in biomedical sciences are fully funded. So unless you want to take on a bunch of debt I wouldn’t recommend a masters
| 0 | 16,452 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixvbg14
|
ixuhztn
| 1,669,484,204 | 1,669,469,914 | 5 | 4 |
You will almost certainly have to pay for your masters while PhDs in biomedical sciences are fully funded. So unless you want to take on a bunch of debt I wouldn’t recommend a masters
|
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
| 1 | 14,290 | 1.25 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixvbg14
|
ixuewil
| 1,669,484,204 | 1,669,467,948 | 5 | 3 |
You will almost certainly have to pay for your masters while PhDs in biomedical sciences are fully funded. So unless you want to take on a bunch of debt I wouldn’t recommend a masters
|
Do a PhD in Europe
| 1 | 16,256 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixvbg14
|
ixujnpt
| 1,669,484,204 | 1,669,470,896 | 5 | 3 |
You will almost certainly have to pay for your masters while PhDs in biomedical sciences are fully funded. So unless you want to take on a bunch of debt I wouldn’t recommend a masters
|
I have a personal philosophy to do bad ass shit bro
| 1 | 13,308 | 1.666667 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixvbg14
|
ixv6ytb
| 1,669,484,204 | 1,669,482,251 | 5 | 4 |
You will almost certainly have to pay for your masters while PhDs in biomedical sciences are fully funded. So unless you want to take on a bunch of debt I wouldn’t recommend a masters
|
Watch out, it might haunt you when you try to find work. Unfortunately, unless you're applying to a job that requires a PhD, having a PhD counts against you. That's especially true if your PhD is slightly different from the area you're trying to get into. It's as if people think your PhD ruined you for anything else. In a sense it's true, because your standard for what counts as fulfilling work goes up. On the other hand, you should have the option to choose what's interesting to you, but recruiters and hiring managers will think they have the right to make that choice for you. It's easy for them to do, because you're in a different category than most of them. Because you're different, they can do the very human thing of othering you any way they can, in order to justify doing what they already wanted to do anyway. People absolutely hate to hear this, but a PhD is evidence that the holder is curious, unconventional, oriented toward understanding and explaining things in depth, toward being on the leading edge of human knowledge, and many other traits that should be highly sought after. But the better it gets, the more people will distrust you or even hate you for it. That's just how we are as a people. Not to mention, hiring managers almost never want to find the best worker for the job. They usually want to be lazy/thrifty and find a merely adequate worker, and it's usually someone with an existing connection to the group. Finding talent is way down on their priority list, after minimizing cost and effort, looking out for their own job security, tending to office politics, maximizing the appearance of making an effort, etc. When managers actually get desperate enough to really go looking for a great employee, you probably won't be in the running, because there'll be applicants who make you look like an absolute newb. Even if you are excellent in ways that make you the best applicant, it'll be very difficult for you to convey that, or for an employer to discern it. The whole activity devolves into checklists and social engineering, and is highly brittle to the curse of dimensionality. (Most recruiting activity is mere shuffling of paper to give the appearance that an effort was made. In practice, identifying the best future employee is virtually impossible, so people give up and hire their friends. Recruiters themselves will be the first to tell you this, along with your advising professors.) I'm sure you've heard a lot of this. Well, believe it. We really are that stupid. Don't think for a second that the species/civilization that's responsible for extermination camps, the Vioxx scandal, the opioid epidemic, paying women 25% less than men, etc., will give a flying fuck about you. Unless you manage to excel stupendously, about the only way to beat the tribalism is to join it. Get your PhD, but stay in your tribe, don't try to go it alone in any way, and do maintain a lot of superficial connections, because someday you may need someone to stuff you up a company's back door.
| 1 | 1,953 | 1.25 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuhztn
|
ixuemgl
| 1,669,469,914 | 1,669,467,752 | 4 | 3 |
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
|
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
| 1 | 2,162 | 1.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixv6ytb
|
ixuemgl
| 1,669,482,251 | 1,669,467,752 | 4 | 3 |
Watch out, it might haunt you when you try to find work. Unfortunately, unless you're applying to a job that requires a PhD, having a PhD counts against you. That's especially true if your PhD is slightly different from the area you're trying to get into. It's as if people think your PhD ruined you for anything else. In a sense it's true, because your standard for what counts as fulfilling work goes up. On the other hand, you should have the option to choose what's interesting to you, but recruiters and hiring managers will think they have the right to make that choice for you. It's easy for them to do, because you're in a different category than most of them. Because you're different, they can do the very human thing of othering you any way they can, in order to justify doing what they already wanted to do anyway. People absolutely hate to hear this, but a PhD is evidence that the holder is curious, unconventional, oriented toward understanding and explaining things in depth, toward being on the leading edge of human knowledge, and many other traits that should be highly sought after. But the better it gets, the more people will distrust you or even hate you for it. That's just how we are as a people. Not to mention, hiring managers almost never want to find the best worker for the job. They usually want to be lazy/thrifty and find a merely adequate worker, and it's usually someone with an existing connection to the group. Finding talent is way down on their priority list, after minimizing cost and effort, looking out for their own job security, tending to office politics, maximizing the appearance of making an effort, etc. When managers actually get desperate enough to really go looking for a great employee, you probably won't be in the running, because there'll be applicants who make you look like an absolute newb. Even if you are excellent in ways that make you the best applicant, it'll be very difficult for you to convey that, or for an employer to discern it. The whole activity devolves into checklists and social engineering, and is highly brittle to the curse of dimensionality. (Most recruiting activity is mere shuffling of paper to give the appearance that an effort was made. In practice, identifying the best future employee is virtually impossible, so people give up and hire their friends. Recruiters themselves will be the first to tell you this, along with your advising professors.) I'm sure you've heard a lot of this. Well, believe it. We really are that stupid. Don't think for a second that the species/civilization that's responsible for extermination camps, the Vioxx scandal, the opioid epidemic, paying women 25% less than men, etc., will give a flying fuck about you. Unless you manage to excel stupendously, about the only way to beat the tribalism is to join it. Get your PhD, but stay in your tribe, don't try to go it alone in any way, and do maintain a lot of superficial connections, because someday you may need someone to stuff you up a company's back door.
|
My partner is getting a PhD and they are always traveling
| 1 | 14,499 | 1.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuhztn
|
ixuewil
| 1,669,469,914 | 1,669,467,948 | 4 | 3 |
I'm curious why you think anyone here can answer your question, when you've already admitted that your reticence is built on your own personal idea of what your 20's should encompass. We can't tell you if you will regret it, because we're not you.
|
Do a PhD in Europe
| 1 | 1,966 | 1.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixuewil
|
ixv6ytb
| 1,669,467,948 | 1,669,482,251 | 3 | 4 |
Do a PhD in Europe
|
Watch out, it might haunt you when you try to find work. Unfortunately, unless you're applying to a job that requires a PhD, having a PhD counts against you. That's especially true if your PhD is slightly different from the area you're trying to get into. It's as if people think your PhD ruined you for anything else. In a sense it's true, because your standard for what counts as fulfilling work goes up. On the other hand, you should have the option to choose what's interesting to you, but recruiters and hiring managers will think they have the right to make that choice for you. It's easy for them to do, because you're in a different category than most of them. Because you're different, they can do the very human thing of othering you any way they can, in order to justify doing what they already wanted to do anyway. People absolutely hate to hear this, but a PhD is evidence that the holder is curious, unconventional, oriented toward understanding and explaining things in depth, toward being on the leading edge of human knowledge, and many other traits that should be highly sought after. But the better it gets, the more people will distrust you or even hate you for it. That's just how we are as a people. Not to mention, hiring managers almost never want to find the best worker for the job. They usually want to be lazy/thrifty and find a merely adequate worker, and it's usually someone with an existing connection to the group. Finding talent is way down on their priority list, after minimizing cost and effort, looking out for their own job security, tending to office politics, maximizing the appearance of making an effort, etc. When managers actually get desperate enough to really go looking for a great employee, you probably won't be in the running, because there'll be applicants who make you look like an absolute newb. Even if you are excellent in ways that make you the best applicant, it'll be very difficult for you to convey that, or for an employer to discern it. The whole activity devolves into checklists and social engineering, and is highly brittle to the curse of dimensionality. (Most recruiting activity is mere shuffling of paper to give the appearance that an effort was made. In practice, identifying the best future employee is virtually impossible, so people give up and hire their friends. Recruiters themselves will be the first to tell you this, along with your advising professors.) I'm sure you've heard a lot of this. Well, believe it. We really are that stupid. Don't think for a second that the species/civilization that's responsible for extermination camps, the Vioxx scandal, the opioid epidemic, paying women 25% less than men, etc., will give a flying fuck about you. Unless you manage to excel stupendously, about the only way to beat the tribalism is to join it. Get your PhD, but stay in your tribe, don't try to go it alone in any way, and do maintain a lot of superficial connections, because someday you may need someone to stuff you up a company's back door.
| 0 | 14,303 | 1.333333 |
z54zej
|
askacademia_train
| 0.86 |
Is it worth sacrificing your early 20s for a PhD when you can get a Masters? I’m currently 21 (22 early next year) and a Biomed graduate, further planning to continue my studies so I can spend more time researching prognostic biomarkers in cardiovascular disease. So I was considering between taking a PhD or masters; while I would have more creative freedom regarding my research with a PhD, its a long commitment, around 3-4 years, so I’ll have spent nearly all of my early 20s in school without the typical vacations that someone taking a masters would get. Now that wouldn’t be a huge problem since this is something I really enjoy, except that I have a personal philosophy that my early 20s are supposed to be for doing as many adventurous things (e.g. travelling) as I can, so I won’t come to regret not doing those things sooner by the time I have greater responsibilities like a full time job and a family. Now I don’t plan on getting into academia, but I do want to get into an R&D role in industry, where PhD holders are highly sought after, although masters holders are also considered. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
|
ixujnpt
|
ixv6ytb
| 1,669,470,896 | 1,669,482,251 | 3 | 4 |
I have a personal philosophy to do bad ass shit bro
|
Watch out, it might haunt you when you try to find work. Unfortunately, unless you're applying to a job that requires a PhD, having a PhD counts against you. That's especially true if your PhD is slightly different from the area you're trying to get into. It's as if people think your PhD ruined you for anything else. In a sense it's true, because your standard for what counts as fulfilling work goes up. On the other hand, you should have the option to choose what's interesting to you, but recruiters and hiring managers will think they have the right to make that choice for you. It's easy for them to do, because you're in a different category than most of them. Because you're different, they can do the very human thing of othering you any way they can, in order to justify doing what they already wanted to do anyway. People absolutely hate to hear this, but a PhD is evidence that the holder is curious, unconventional, oriented toward understanding and explaining things in depth, toward being on the leading edge of human knowledge, and many other traits that should be highly sought after. But the better it gets, the more people will distrust you or even hate you for it. That's just how we are as a people. Not to mention, hiring managers almost never want to find the best worker for the job. They usually want to be lazy/thrifty and find a merely adequate worker, and it's usually someone with an existing connection to the group. Finding talent is way down on their priority list, after minimizing cost and effort, looking out for their own job security, tending to office politics, maximizing the appearance of making an effort, etc. When managers actually get desperate enough to really go looking for a great employee, you probably won't be in the running, because there'll be applicants who make you look like an absolute newb. Even if you are excellent in ways that make you the best applicant, it'll be very difficult for you to convey that, or for an employer to discern it. The whole activity devolves into checklists and social engineering, and is highly brittle to the curse of dimensionality. (Most recruiting activity is mere shuffling of paper to give the appearance that an effort was made. In practice, identifying the best future employee is virtually impossible, so people give up and hire their friends. Recruiters themselves will be the first to tell you this, along with your advising professors.) I'm sure you've heard a lot of this. Well, believe it. We really are that stupid. Don't think for a second that the species/civilization that's responsible for extermination camps, the Vioxx scandal, the opioid epidemic, paying women 25% less than men, etc., will give a flying fuck about you. Unless you manage to excel stupendously, about the only way to beat the tribalism is to join it. Get your PhD, but stay in your tribe, don't try to go it alone in any way, and do maintain a lot of superficial connections, because someday you may need someone to stuff you up a company's back door.
| 0 | 11,355 | 1.333333 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if3yipk
|
if3qa75
| 1,657,134,028 | 1,657,130,597 | 20 | 6 |
Don't use any slide transitions or animations other than 'appear' Starwipes, etc. look awful on a good day, and a laggy stilted mess on zoom.
|
Will the committee you’re presenting to read your updated work before the presentation or have you already submitted it? If your talk is based on what you’ve already submitted don’t focus so much time on revising the manuscript right now, focus on getting the talk perfected. Be aware that they may ask you questions based on the submitted work but just accept that it is what it is, be aware of and prepare explanations about key problems in the submitted work and just focus on getting your talk to show the true scientist you are. Getting hung up on problems with your submitted work and beating yourself up about them will only hurt you. It is what it is. It happened and now we move on to bigger and better.
| 1 | 3,431 | 3.333333 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if4bcmj
|
if3qa75
| 1,657,139,444 | 1,657,130,597 | 8 | 6 |
Oh my god I lol’d so hard throughout this post, amazing job. I also defend soon (15 days!), stay tuned for the next episode of the amazing race to see if I truly pass.
|
Will the committee you’re presenting to read your updated work before the presentation or have you already submitted it? If your talk is based on what you’ve already submitted don’t focus so much time on revising the manuscript right now, focus on getting the talk perfected. Be aware that they may ask you questions based on the submitted work but just accept that it is what it is, be aware of and prepare explanations about key problems in the submitted work and just focus on getting your talk to show the true scientist you are. Getting hung up on problems with your submitted work and beating yourself up about them will only hurt you. It is what it is. It happened and now we move on to bigger and better.
| 1 | 8,847 | 1.333333 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if4bcmj
|
if454dh
| 1,657,139,444 | 1,657,136,830 | 8 | 5 |
Oh my god I lol’d so hard throughout this post, amazing job. I also defend soon (15 days!), stay tuned for the next episode of the amazing race to see if I truly pass.
|
Share your slides with your committee before hand and number the slides. That way if Zoom quality is poor you can switch to audio and keep going. This is the especially important if you have committee members in different countries. (Coming from somebody who had to do this).
| 1 | 2,614 | 1.6 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if454dh
|
if4t6t9
| 1,657,136,830 | 1,657,146,916 | 5 | 6 |
Share your slides with your committee before hand and number the slides. That way if Zoom quality is poor you can switch to audio and keep going. This is the especially important if you have committee members in different countries. (Coming from somebody who had to do this).
|
Remember you’re the expert on your research. People will ask sort of tangential questions that pull the conversation into their specialty, but you can often sort of steer things back into your zone. Don’t ignore their questions obviously but you can give examples and whatnot that you’re well-studied on. I also find it helpful to question myself. Either in the ‘shower argument’ format, or by actually writing down some potential questions I’m anticipating and then just answering them out loud to myself or my partner. Good luck and congratulations!
| 0 | 10,086 | 1.2 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if4knbx
|
if4t6t9
| 1,657,143,305 | 1,657,146,916 | 4 | 6 |
OMG I am kinda in the same position, but I am unable to even take time out to go have a psych eval which my therapist told me to go for.... Last 2 months running around for my quals exam, trying to get support from my PI, so having to also show some good data to her.... And now getting literally just a 2 week notice for the final oral exam while also having to rewrite my grant proposal in one week while the other cohort members passed.... making me feel extremely claustrophobic and anxious. Stay tuned for the next episode indeed XD
|
Remember you’re the expert on your research. People will ask sort of tangential questions that pull the conversation into their specialty, but you can often sort of steer things back into your zone. Don’t ignore their questions obviously but you can give examples and whatnot that you’re well-studied on. I also find it helpful to question myself. Either in the ‘shower argument’ format, or by actually writing down some potential questions I’m anticipating and then just answering them out loud to myself or my partner. Good luck and congratulations!
| 0 | 3,611 | 1.5 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if53uo3
|
if454dh
| 1,657,151,631 | 1,657,136,830 | 6 | 5 |
>Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks Damn dude, that is a long time away! I was making revisions until three days before and building my presentation the night before. You've got this!
|
Share your slides with your committee before hand and number the slides. That way if Zoom quality is poor you can switch to audio and keep going. This is the especially important if you have committee members in different countries. (Coming from somebody who had to do this).
| 1 | 14,801 | 1.2 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if53uo3
|
if4knbx
| 1,657,151,631 | 1,657,143,305 | 6 | 4 |
>Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks Damn dude, that is a long time away! I was making revisions until three days before and building my presentation the night before. You've got this!
|
OMG I am kinda in the same position, but I am unable to even take time out to go have a psych eval which my therapist told me to go for.... Last 2 months running around for my quals exam, trying to get support from my PI, so having to also show some good data to her.... And now getting literally just a 2 week notice for the final oral exam while also having to rewrite my grant proposal in one week while the other cohort members passed.... making me feel extremely claustrophobic and anxious. Stay tuned for the next episode indeed XD
| 1 | 8,326 | 1.5 |
vstrhf
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
Final oral exam (phd) in a few weeks and still making revisions *laughs maniacally* Just wanted to share my slow descent into madness because why not. I wrote so much of this flamin' dorito turd of a manuscript before I got diagnosed with adhd and for a month I have been trying to make sense of the disjointed musings of my premedicated rabid raccoon brain. Whenever I think I am done, I re-read a section and I just start laughing at the monitor. It's scaring my dog. Weeell, I may or may not have earned my PhD at the end of this month. Find out on the next Dragon Ball Z. PS: Any tips for the defense will be greatly appreciated. It will be on Zoom which I still don't know how I feel about but at least I can ghost my committee forever if I feel things are going downhill midway through.
|
if4knbx
|
if5r1e4
| 1,657,143,305 | 1,657,162,268 | 4 | 5 |
OMG I am kinda in the same position, but I am unable to even take time out to go have a psych eval which my therapist told me to go for.... Last 2 months running around for my quals exam, trying to get support from my PI, so having to also show some good data to her.... And now getting literally just a 2 week notice for the final oral exam while also having to rewrite my grant proposal in one week while the other cohort members passed.... making me feel extremely claustrophobic and anxious. Stay tuned for the next episode indeed XD
|
"Ghost my committee forever"? Dude, you've got your entire life invested in this, and your committee members are all neck-deep in it with you. All parties are pulling for your success. You'll do fine, but you'd better commit!
| 0 | 18,963 | 1.25 |
kpsojk
|
askacademia_train
| 0.99 |
How to tell my PhD advisor that I don't want to be a professor anymore? In the beginning of my PhD program (Materials Science, R1) I told my PI of my ambition to be a faculty. I'm the first PhD student of my PI, so I know that they put lots of effort and resources for my research training. As a young PI, having a mentee who goes on becoming a faculty seems like a big achievement and a legacy to be proud of for the rest of their career. Now I'm nearing the end of my PhD and, after contemplating, I want to have a comfortable and stable life after PhD. I don't see doing postdoc(s) and looking for non-existent tenure-track faculty jobs as a comfortable/stable life. Although this may not be true if I decide to move elsewhere out of state. With all the sacrifice my PI has given to me (resulting in my super productive outputs, a number of first-authored papers, as well as several fellowships in my belt), how should I respectfully tell my PI that I changed my mind about my future career? What is the best way to explain that I may no longer want to be a professor? I'm not really good at speaking and choosing the right words to say, so your suggestions are highly appreciated.
|
ghzv6rt
|
gi047cq
| 1,609,708,908 | 1,609,713,073 | 21 | 40 |
I faced this same thing in grad school. Basically I never told my advisor outright that I wasn’t going to pursue academia, but I did let her know I was applying to a variety of job types, including post docs and industry. I think your advisor will be supportive no matter what. But you by no means have to tell them what specific jobs you’re aiming for.
|
“Dear prof I’ve been thinking about my future and I’m not as excited about an academic path as before. Instead I want to XYZ. How can I pivot my work to be more competitive in that career trajectory?”
| 0 | 4,165 | 1.904762 |
kpsojk
|
askacademia_train
| 0.99 |
How to tell my PhD advisor that I don't want to be a professor anymore? In the beginning of my PhD program (Materials Science, R1) I told my PI of my ambition to be a faculty. I'm the first PhD student of my PI, so I know that they put lots of effort and resources for my research training. As a young PI, having a mentee who goes on becoming a faculty seems like a big achievement and a legacy to be proud of for the rest of their career. Now I'm nearing the end of my PhD and, after contemplating, I want to have a comfortable and stable life after PhD. I don't see doing postdoc(s) and looking for non-existent tenure-track faculty jobs as a comfortable/stable life. Although this may not be true if I decide to move elsewhere out of state. With all the sacrifice my PI has given to me (resulting in my super productive outputs, a number of first-authored papers, as well as several fellowships in my belt), how should I respectfully tell my PI that I changed my mind about my future career? What is the best way to explain that I may no longer want to be a professor? I'm not really good at speaking and choosing the right words to say, so your suggestions are highly appreciated.
|
gi047cq
|
ghzxcu0
| 1,609,713,073 | 1,609,709,908 | 40 | 20 |
“Dear prof I’ve been thinking about my future and I’m not as excited about an academic path as before. Instead I want to XYZ. How can I pivot my work to be more competitive in that career trajectory?”
|
Every PI dream is a lab tech who can do the work with minimal supervision. Who comes with such a mindset or who can be readily equipped with such a mentality? 1. Minimal supervision: you need to read papers on your own, experiment multiple times until you succeed. 2. Being productive: the more you work, the more data you provide. The more data you have, the better story you can setup to sell your work when it comes to publication. The more data you bring, the more opportunity to find another good project to work on. In all of these productivity, all your PI needs is "He is a stellar graduate student" one liner in his recommendation. Your stipend won't go up. But his tenure will be secured. His name will be on the paper. He can easily recruit another graduate students with your good project. The cycle continues. 3. Graduate: Your PI job is to graduate a PhD. In their grant application, this is one of the criteria they need to provide. Lately funding agency starts using the work placement as one of the estimators to judge whether the PI is doing a good job at training their graduate students. For this, old PIs have a lot to write about because they have graduated many students while the younger PIs have nothing to write home about. So this criteria has become less of the indicators for the funding to the lab. 4. The treatment: The PIs treatment to graduate and postdoc is different. Graduates are just a newbie in TT track while the postdocs are next in line. So the boundary between PI and graduate students is clear, but the one between postdocs can be vague because of the continuation of the projects by the postdoc once they get the TT positions and will compete against the very PI for the limited amount of funding resources. What you plan for your future for next 5 years can change. What do you think those PIs have never thought of leaving the academia in their PhD and postdoc years? Some have tried and left. Some tinkered with the idea. Some has tried and remained in academia for many different reasons. I can tell you any sane PIs will definitely understand. If your PI don't, that's one of the indicators that you should avoid at all cost in the next step in your future career.
| 1 | 3,165 | 2 |
kpsojk
|
askacademia_train
| 0.99 |
How to tell my PhD advisor that I don't want to be a professor anymore? In the beginning of my PhD program (Materials Science, R1) I told my PI of my ambition to be a faculty. I'm the first PhD student of my PI, so I know that they put lots of effort and resources for my research training. As a young PI, having a mentee who goes on becoming a faculty seems like a big achievement and a legacy to be proud of for the rest of their career. Now I'm nearing the end of my PhD and, after contemplating, I want to have a comfortable and stable life after PhD. I don't see doing postdoc(s) and looking for non-existent tenure-track faculty jobs as a comfortable/stable life. Although this may not be true if I decide to move elsewhere out of state. With all the sacrifice my PI has given to me (resulting in my super productive outputs, a number of first-authored papers, as well as several fellowships in my belt), how should I respectfully tell my PI that I changed my mind about my future career? What is the best way to explain that I may no longer want to be a professor? I'm not really good at speaking and choosing the right words to say, so your suggestions are highly appreciated.
|
ghzsrqu
|
gi047cq
| 1,609,707,837 | 1,609,713,073 | 19 | 40 |
you think they put all that effort into you because you want to be faculty, NO they did it cuz it was their job and they want publications.
|
“Dear prof I’ve been thinking about my future and I’m not as excited about an academic path as before. Instead I want to XYZ. How can I pivot my work to be more competitive in that career trajectory?”
| 0 | 5,236 | 2.105263 |
kpsojk
|
askacademia_train
| 0.99 |
How to tell my PhD advisor that I don't want to be a professor anymore? In the beginning of my PhD program (Materials Science, R1) I told my PI of my ambition to be a faculty. I'm the first PhD student of my PI, so I know that they put lots of effort and resources for my research training. As a young PI, having a mentee who goes on becoming a faculty seems like a big achievement and a legacy to be proud of for the rest of their career. Now I'm nearing the end of my PhD and, after contemplating, I want to have a comfortable and stable life after PhD. I don't see doing postdoc(s) and looking for non-existent tenure-track faculty jobs as a comfortable/stable life. Although this may not be true if I decide to move elsewhere out of state. With all the sacrifice my PI has given to me (resulting in my super productive outputs, a number of first-authored papers, as well as several fellowships in my belt), how should I respectfully tell my PI that I changed my mind about my future career? What is the best way to explain that I may no longer want to be a professor? I'm not really good at speaking and choosing the right words to say, so your suggestions are highly appreciated.
|
ghzsrqu
|
ghzv6rt
| 1,609,707,837 | 1,609,708,908 | 19 | 21 |
you think they put all that effort into you because you want to be faculty, NO they did it cuz it was their job and they want publications.
|
I faced this same thing in grad school. Basically I never told my advisor outright that I wasn’t going to pursue academia, but I did let her know I was applying to a variety of job types, including post docs and industry. I think your advisor will be supportive no matter what. But you by no means have to tell them what specific jobs you’re aiming for.
| 0 | 1,071 | 1.105263 |
kpsojk
|
askacademia_train
| 0.99 |
How to tell my PhD advisor that I don't want to be a professor anymore? In the beginning of my PhD program (Materials Science, R1) I told my PI of my ambition to be a faculty. I'm the first PhD student of my PI, so I know that they put lots of effort and resources for my research training. As a young PI, having a mentee who goes on becoming a faculty seems like a big achievement and a legacy to be proud of for the rest of their career. Now I'm nearing the end of my PhD and, after contemplating, I want to have a comfortable and stable life after PhD. I don't see doing postdoc(s) and looking for non-existent tenure-track faculty jobs as a comfortable/stable life. Although this may not be true if I decide to move elsewhere out of state. With all the sacrifice my PI has given to me (resulting in my super productive outputs, a number of first-authored papers, as well as several fellowships in my belt), how should I respectfully tell my PI that I changed my mind about my future career? What is the best way to explain that I may no longer want to be a professor? I'm not really good at speaking and choosing the right words to say, so your suggestions are highly appreciated.
|
ghzsrqu
|
ghzxcu0
| 1,609,707,837 | 1,609,709,908 | 19 | 20 |
you think they put all that effort into you because you want to be faculty, NO they did it cuz it was their job and they want publications.
|
Every PI dream is a lab tech who can do the work with minimal supervision. Who comes with such a mindset or who can be readily equipped with such a mentality? 1. Minimal supervision: you need to read papers on your own, experiment multiple times until you succeed. 2. Being productive: the more you work, the more data you provide. The more data you have, the better story you can setup to sell your work when it comes to publication. The more data you bring, the more opportunity to find another good project to work on. In all of these productivity, all your PI needs is "He is a stellar graduate student" one liner in his recommendation. Your stipend won't go up. But his tenure will be secured. His name will be on the paper. He can easily recruit another graduate students with your good project. The cycle continues. 3. Graduate: Your PI job is to graduate a PhD. In their grant application, this is one of the criteria they need to provide. Lately funding agency starts using the work placement as one of the estimators to judge whether the PI is doing a good job at training their graduate students. For this, old PIs have a lot to write about because they have graduated many students while the younger PIs have nothing to write home about. So this criteria has become less of the indicators for the funding to the lab. 4. The treatment: The PIs treatment to graduate and postdoc is different. Graduates are just a newbie in TT track while the postdocs are next in line. So the boundary between PI and graduate students is clear, but the one between postdocs can be vague because of the continuation of the projects by the postdoc once they get the TT positions and will compete against the very PI for the limited amount of funding resources. What you plan for your future for next 5 years can change. What do you think those PIs have never thought of leaving the academia in their PhD and postdoc years? Some have tried and left. Some tinkered with the idea. Some has tried and remained in academia for many different reasons. I can tell you any sane PIs will definitely understand. If your PI don't, that's one of the indicators that you should avoid at all cost in the next step in your future career.
| 0 | 2,071 | 1.052632 |
kpsojk
|
askacademia_train
| 0.99 |
How to tell my PhD advisor that I don't want to be a professor anymore? In the beginning of my PhD program (Materials Science, R1) I told my PI of my ambition to be a faculty. I'm the first PhD student of my PI, so I know that they put lots of effort and resources for my research training. As a young PI, having a mentee who goes on becoming a faculty seems like a big achievement and a legacy to be proud of for the rest of their career. Now I'm nearing the end of my PhD and, after contemplating, I want to have a comfortable and stable life after PhD. I don't see doing postdoc(s) and looking for non-existent tenure-track faculty jobs as a comfortable/stable life. Although this may not be true if I decide to move elsewhere out of state. With all the sacrifice my PI has given to me (resulting in my super productive outputs, a number of first-authored papers, as well as several fellowships in my belt), how should I respectfully tell my PI that I changed my mind about my future career? What is the best way to explain that I may no longer want to be a professor? I'm not really good at speaking and choosing the right words to say, so your suggestions are highly appreciated.
|
gi0ddhx
|
gi1gmrl
| 1,609,717,410 | 1,609,738,006 | 4 | 6 |
Every faculty member knows how tough it is to "make it". Any reasonable PI will get it. It might be easier to broach it as a conversation rather than presented as a decision, even if you're confident. Tell them you're thinking about non academic positions and just ask if they know anything about applying to industry positions or if they know anyone who did that transition.
|
Just have an honest conversation with your PI and acknowledge how you are agonizing about how your decision may affect your PI's career. If you structure the conversation in a way that you are still seeking help from someone that you view as a mentor beyond graduate school, your PI will respond as your mentor and not as a young professor hell bent on getting tenure. You've already surpassed most PIs' expectations based on your productivity during your graduate career. I'm sure your PI will continue to be proud of your accomplishments outside of academia.
| 0 | 20,596 | 1.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxti9z
|
fnxrcsr
| 1,587,346,008 | 1,587,344,746 | 126 | 21 |
Ask for the startup you need to succeed. That is important and it doesn’t matter what anyone else got. The department wants you to be successful, so they won’t mind you asking for this.
|
More money is always better (like if someone said "hey, want $5000", you'd say yes) so no harm in negotiating salary, but I'd start your talks with the priority, and that in this case is your start up. There is the balance of accepting what you can get because the market is taking a tumble right now, but there is also the issue of can you actually be successful with that. I went into my negotiations with the mindset of I had told them my research plans, they had hired me knowing that, so they should want me to be able to be successful. Did you make a list of what you needed/wanted and justified it? If so, time to reiterate with them why you need these things. There might be alternate ways to get things too- shared with other people, institutional grants, teaching release while you get grants to buy these things, students supported by dept/TAships, etc. But make sure you aren't walking into a situation that you cannot be successful in.
| 1 | 1,262 | 6 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxti9z
|
fnxs7je
| 1,587,346,008 | 1,587,345,250 | 126 | 23 |
Ask for the startup you need to succeed. That is important and it doesn’t matter what anyone else got. The department wants you to be successful, so they won’t mind you asking for this.
|
You know that movie trope where someone tumbles off a cliff, falling a frightening distance, but manages to grab on to a slight ledge momentarily stopping a plummet all the way to the bottom? Maybe they'll pull themselves back up or maybe they'll lose their grip and free fall to the bottom. That's where academia (and with it the academic job market) is right now, down and hanging on precariously. Schools are facing significant threats to enrollment, which costs them in both tuition and auxiliary revenue, while having to simultaneously adjust to a new model for their services. Endowments haven taken a hit from the stock market drop. Fear and uncertainty is causing normally very tradition-bound institutions to abandon certain norms, renege on contracts, and eat their own seed corn out of immediate need. And they have the cover of "generational catastrophe" to excuse and rationalize it. If you like the salary, it's in line with published values, and you'd be willing to work at the place, lock that down asap. Get your actual contract or appointment letter signed and hope the school doesn't renege.
| 1 | 758 | 5.478261 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxmb7d
|
fnxti9z
| 1,587,341,633 | 1,587,346,008 | 12 | 126 |
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
|
Ask for the startup you need to succeed. That is important and it doesn’t matter what anyone else got. The department wants you to be successful, so they won’t mind you asking for this.
| 0 | 4,375 | 10.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxrcsr
|
fnxysw6
| 1,587,344,746 | 1,587,349,337 | 21 | 80 |
More money is always better (like if someone said "hey, want $5000", you'd say yes) so no harm in negotiating salary, but I'd start your talks with the priority, and that in this case is your start up. There is the balance of accepting what you can get because the market is taking a tumble right now, but there is also the issue of can you actually be successful with that. I went into my negotiations with the mindset of I had told them my research plans, they had hired me knowing that, so they should want me to be able to be successful. Did you make a list of what you needed/wanted and justified it? If so, time to reiterate with them why you need these things. There might be alternate ways to get things too- shared with other people, institutional grants, teaching release while you get grants to buy these things, students supported by dept/TAships, etc. But make sure you aren't walking into a situation that you cannot be successful in.
|
First off, congrats!! Build yourself a spreadsheet of all the operating costs you anticipate having in the first couple years before you get grants - equipment you need that isn't already at the school, recurring wet lab materials, staff, lab furniture, etc. Get really specific with what everything costs and how much you need. Then color code it with what is *absolutely fundamental,* aka you cannot do the job you were hired for without it (do you need to supervise students in the first couple years to meet tenure requirements?), vs. what would suck to lose but technically could still do some work, and what would be nice to have. Then add up those costs. If it were January, I'd say try to negotiate for the cost of the first two categories, but nowadays it's probably best to only ask for the first and not risk losing the offer. Without the startup you absolutely need to function, you're technically a negative investment for the school, the department, and yourself, so that's what you should ask for and present it along with the spreadsheet justifying why you need that amount. Taking that approach makes it a conversation about "how can we together make this productive," instead of something adversarial where you're trying the get the most boon for yourself. I wouldn't try to negotiate the salary if you're decently happy with it, since you're already unhappy with the start up so that should be the focal point. Hopefully your new department head will be on your side and help advocate for you to the dean, because they want this position filled before the school might make it disappear. You could also talk to them with your spreadsheet first before going to the school, if you feel like you have a good relationship with them, about what creative solutions might exist already in the department that you aren't currently aware of. For instance, post-interview I found out there is a built in moving fund and conference travel fund for all new faculty at my institution so I didn't have to negotiate for those. This is the negotiation process I took to great success. Granted though, that was in January and my field is cognitive neuroscience. Good luck OP!
| 0 | 4,591 | 3.809524 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxysw6
|
fnxs7je
| 1,587,349,337 | 1,587,345,250 | 80 | 23 |
First off, congrats!! Build yourself a spreadsheet of all the operating costs you anticipate having in the first couple years before you get grants - equipment you need that isn't already at the school, recurring wet lab materials, staff, lab furniture, etc. Get really specific with what everything costs and how much you need. Then color code it with what is *absolutely fundamental,* aka you cannot do the job you were hired for without it (do you need to supervise students in the first couple years to meet tenure requirements?), vs. what would suck to lose but technically could still do some work, and what would be nice to have. Then add up those costs. If it were January, I'd say try to negotiate for the cost of the first two categories, but nowadays it's probably best to only ask for the first and not risk losing the offer. Without the startup you absolutely need to function, you're technically a negative investment for the school, the department, and yourself, so that's what you should ask for and present it along with the spreadsheet justifying why you need that amount. Taking that approach makes it a conversation about "how can we together make this productive," instead of something adversarial where you're trying the get the most boon for yourself. I wouldn't try to negotiate the salary if you're decently happy with it, since you're already unhappy with the start up so that should be the focal point. Hopefully your new department head will be on your side and help advocate for you to the dean, because they want this position filled before the school might make it disappear. You could also talk to them with your spreadsheet first before going to the school, if you feel like you have a good relationship with them, about what creative solutions might exist already in the department that you aren't currently aware of. For instance, post-interview I found out there is a built in moving fund and conference travel fund for all new faculty at my institution so I didn't have to negotiate for those. This is the negotiation process I took to great success. Granted though, that was in January and my field is cognitive neuroscience. Good luck OP!
|
You know that movie trope where someone tumbles off a cliff, falling a frightening distance, but manages to grab on to a slight ledge momentarily stopping a plummet all the way to the bottom? Maybe they'll pull themselves back up or maybe they'll lose their grip and free fall to the bottom. That's where academia (and with it the academic job market) is right now, down and hanging on precariously. Schools are facing significant threats to enrollment, which costs them in both tuition and auxiliary revenue, while having to simultaneously adjust to a new model for their services. Endowments haven taken a hit from the stock market drop. Fear and uncertainty is causing normally very tradition-bound institutions to abandon certain norms, renege on contracts, and eat their own seed corn out of immediate need. And they have the cover of "generational catastrophe" to excuse and rationalize it. If you like the salary, it's in line with published values, and you'd be willing to work at the place, lock that down asap. Get your actual contract or appointment letter signed and hope the school doesn't renege.
| 1 | 4,087 | 3.478261 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxmb7d
|
fnxysw6
| 1,587,341,633 | 1,587,349,337 | 12 | 80 |
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
|
First off, congrats!! Build yourself a spreadsheet of all the operating costs you anticipate having in the first couple years before you get grants - equipment you need that isn't already at the school, recurring wet lab materials, staff, lab furniture, etc. Get really specific with what everything costs and how much you need. Then color code it with what is *absolutely fundamental,* aka you cannot do the job you were hired for without it (do you need to supervise students in the first couple years to meet tenure requirements?), vs. what would suck to lose but technically could still do some work, and what would be nice to have. Then add up those costs. If it were January, I'd say try to negotiate for the cost of the first two categories, but nowadays it's probably best to only ask for the first and not risk losing the offer. Without the startup you absolutely need to function, you're technically a negative investment for the school, the department, and yourself, so that's what you should ask for and present it along with the spreadsheet justifying why you need that amount. Taking that approach makes it a conversation about "how can we together make this productive," instead of something adversarial where you're trying the get the most boon for yourself. I wouldn't try to negotiate the salary if you're decently happy with it, since you're already unhappy with the start up so that should be the focal point. Hopefully your new department head will be on your side and help advocate for you to the dean, because they want this position filled before the school might make it disappear. You could also talk to them with your spreadsheet first before going to the school, if you feel like you have a good relationship with them, about what creative solutions might exist already in the department that you aren't currently aware of. For instance, post-interview I found out there is a built in moving fund and conference travel fund for all new faculty at my institution so I didn't have to negotiate for those. This is the negotiation process I took to great success. Granted though, that was in January and my field is cognitive neuroscience. Good luck OP!
| 0 | 7,704 | 6.666667 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxysw6
|
fnxwwqs
| 1,587,349,337 | 1,587,348,098 | 80 | 5 |
First off, congrats!! Build yourself a spreadsheet of all the operating costs you anticipate having in the first couple years before you get grants - equipment you need that isn't already at the school, recurring wet lab materials, staff, lab furniture, etc. Get really specific with what everything costs and how much you need. Then color code it with what is *absolutely fundamental,* aka you cannot do the job you were hired for without it (do you need to supervise students in the first couple years to meet tenure requirements?), vs. what would suck to lose but technically could still do some work, and what would be nice to have. Then add up those costs. If it were January, I'd say try to negotiate for the cost of the first two categories, but nowadays it's probably best to only ask for the first and not risk losing the offer. Without the startup you absolutely need to function, you're technically a negative investment for the school, the department, and yourself, so that's what you should ask for and present it along with the spreadsheet justifying why you need that amount. Taking that approach makes it a conversation about "how can we together make this productive," instead of something adversarial where you're trying the get the most boon for yourself. I wouldn't try to negotiate the salary if you're decently happy with it, since you're already unhappy with the start up so that should be the focal point. Hopefully your new department head will be on your side and help advocate for you to the dean, because they want this position filled before the school might make it disappear. You could also talk to them with your spreadsheet first before going to the school, if you feel like you have a good relationship with them, about what creative solutions might exist already in the department that you aren't currently aware of. For instance, post-interview I found out there is a built in moving fund and conference travel fund for all new faculty at my institution so I didn't have to negotiate for those. This is the negotiation process I took to great success. Granted though, that was in January and my field is cognitive neuroscience. Good luck OP!
|
Only push the salary if you have a legit reason to expect more. The startup is concerning. Can you execute your research agenda with that amount as your foundation? Is it possible for you to generate pilot data, realistically pursue extramural funding, etc? In other words, will this be enough for you to produce what is needed to get tenure? The answers depend on the nature of your research, the feasibility of collecting data with little/no grad student support, your teaching and administrative obligations. Be objective when considering these questions. I would not assume the university will be able to make up the difference in future years. Maybe a colleague already has some of your required equipment and is a team player? It's worth asking. If you absolutely can't make it work with this level of startup funding, then this might not be a good fit.
| 1 | 1,239 | 16 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxrcsr
|
fny4bhu
| 1,587,344,746 | 1,587,353,080 | 21 | 29 |
More money is always better (like if someone said "hey, want $5000", you'd say yes) so no harm in negotiating salary, but I'd start your talks with the priority, and that in this case is your start up. There is the balance of accepting what you can get because the market is taking a tumble right now, but there is also the issue of can you actually be successful with that. I went into my negotiations with the mindset of I had told them my research plans, they had hired me knowing that, so they should want me to be able to be successful. Did you make a list of what you needed/wanted and justified it? If so, time to reiterate with them why you need these things. There might be alternate ways to get things too- shared with other people, institutional grants, teaching release while you get grants to buy these things, students supported by dept/TAships, etc. But make sure you aren't walking into a situation that you cannot be successful in.
|
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
| 0 | 8,334 | 1.380952 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny4bhu
|
fnxs7je
| 1,587,353,080 | 1,587,345,250 | 29 | 23 |
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
|
You know that movie trope where someone tumbles off a cliff, falling a frightening distance, but manages to grab on to a slight ledge momentarily stopping a plummet all the way to the bottom? Maybe they'll pull themselves back up or maybe they'll lose their grip and free fall to the bottom. That's where academia (and with it the academic job market) is right now, down and hanging on precariously. Schools are facing significant threats to enrollment, which costs them in both tuition and auxiliary revenue, while having to simultaneously adjust to a new model for their services. Endowments haven taken a hit from the stock market drop. Fear and uncertainty is causing normally very tradition-bound institutions to abandon certain norms, renege on contracts, and eat their own seed corn out of immediate need. And they have the cover of "generational catastrophe" to excuse and rationalize it. If you like the salary, it's in line with published values, and you'd be willing to work at the place, lock that down asap. Get your actual contract or appointment letter signed and hope the school doesn't renege.
| 1 | 7,830 | 1.26087 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny4bhu
|
fny1con
| 1,587,353,080 | 1,587,351,049 | 29 | 18 |
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
|
Normally: yes. Negotiate everything, but have a good justification for every item that isn't your salary. These days: lock that job offer up asap. Ask the chair how likely your offer will be pulled.
| 1 | 2,031 | 1.611111 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny1gt2
|
fny4bhu
| 1,587,351,125 | 1,587,353,080 | 15 | 29 |
My suggestions (And congrats!) are: 1). Know that the public salaries may be a year out of date, so negotiating up a little can't hurt. 2). This startup seems VERY low to me and I would ask the department head about it rather bluntly. You can frame it as How do I get the resources I need to survive / thrive in this job? What are the expectations for tenure or even year 1 and 2 productivity?
|
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
| 0 | 1,955 | 1.933333 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxmb7d
|
fny4bhu
| 1,587,341,633 | 1,587,353,080 | 12 | 29 |
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
|
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
| 0 | 11,447 | 2.416667 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxwwqs
|
fny4bhu
| 1,587,348,098 | 1,587,353,080 | 5 | 29 |
Only push the salary if you have a legit reason to expect more. The startup is concerning. Can you execute your research agenda with that amount as your foundation? Is it possible for you to generate pilot data, realistically pursue extramural funding, etc? In other words, will this be enough for you to produce what is needed to get tenure? The answers depend on the nature of your research, the feasibility of collecting data with little/no grad student support, your teaching and administrative obligations. Be objective when considering these questions. I would not assume the university will be able to make up the difference in future years. Maybe a colleague already has some of your required equipment and is a team player? It's worth asking. If you absolutely can't make it work with this level of startup funding, then this might not be a good fit.
|
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
| 0 | 4,982 | 5.8 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny4bhu
|
fny1xzx
| 1,587,353,080 | 1,587,351,442 | 29 | 5 |
Congrats op! This is especially great in this market. I'm a department chair and have a lot of experience in hiring. If your salary offer is fair there's no reason to negotiate, especially in this market. But if your startup isn't sufficient to support your work that needs to be made clear! First, because your new department will want to you succeed, and second because it's usually far easier to boost startup than base salary. When managing a departmental or divisional budget one-time funds are much easier to come by than recurring funds...I'd much rather settle on a $50K startup increase than a $10K base salary increase, because that $50K hits my budget once but the $10K goes on forever. Second, startup is a different pool of money from compensation; often there are startup funds unspent in another department or division that I can tap. And third-- very important to me at least --is that never want to bump a starting salary too high compared to anyone who has been with us a couple of years...salary compression is very bad for morale. That's *especially* going to be true if there are layoff pending at your new school, as there are at mine and most others. Just for perspective, startup offers in equipment-heavy STEM fields at my SLAC might begin at $10-20K but are often $50-75K when necessary. Surely an R2 would be able to adequately back your research needs, even if they need to phase that in over a couple of years (which we've done with some larger awards). You might also be able to negotiate a multi-year startup from a smaller base number, as everyone is assuming the worst for enrollments and revenues in fall 2020.
|
Normally I would say absolutely negotiate, 100% you would be - I hate to say stupid, but - stupid if you didn't. In these trying times, I just have no idea! If the salary is good, leave it, but that is an absurdly low start up package to get a lab up and running. Maybe impossible, but I'm unfamiliar with your field. I run a lab at an R1 institute and that would buy us one freezer and a PCR machine with no money left for labor. I think the advice given that your department wants you to succeed is good, so you need to tell them what you need and see if they can meet you somewhere in the middle. Additionally, can they offer any TA ships or assistantships as well so you can guarantee some funding for a student? Good luck!
| 1 | 1,638 | 5.8 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxs7je
|
fnxrcsr
| 1,587,345,250 | 1,587,344,746 | 23 | 21 |
You know that movie trope where someone tumbles off a cliff, falling a frightening distance, but manages to grab on to a slight ledge momentarily stopping a plummet all the way to the bottom? Maybe they'll pull themselves back up or maybe they'll lose their grip and free fall to the bottom. That's where academia (and with it the academic job market) is right now, down and hanging on precariously. Schools are facing significant threats to enrollment, which costs them in both tuition and auxiliary revenue, while having to simultaneously adjust to a new model for their services. Endowments haven taken a hit from the stock market drop. Fear and uncertainty is causing normally very tradition-bound institutions to abandon certain norms, renege on contracts, and eat their own seed corn out of immediate need. And they have the cover of "generational catastrophe" to excuse and rationalize it. If you like the salary, it's in line with published values, and you'd be willing to work at the place, lock that down asap. Get your actual contract or appointment letter signed and hope the school doesn't renege.
|
More money is always better (like if someone said "hey, want $5000", you'd say yes) so no harm in negotiating salary, but I'd start your talks with the priority, and that in this case is your start up. There is the balance of accepting what you can get because the market is taking a tumble right now, but there is also the issue of can you actually be successful with that. I went into my negotiations with the mindset of I had told them my research plans, they had hired me knowing that, so they should want me to be able to be successful. Did you make a list of what you needed/wanted and justified it? If so, time to reiterate with them why you need these things. There might be alternate ways to get things too- shared with other people, institutional grants, teaching release while you get grants to buy these things, students supported by dept/TAships, etc. But make sure you aren't walking into a situation that you cannot be successful in.
| 1 | 504 | 1.095238 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxrcsr
|
fnxmb7d
| 1,587,344,746 | 1,587,341,633 | 21 | 12 |
More money is always better (like if someone said "hey, want $5000", you'd say yes) so no harm in negotiating salary, but I'd start your talks with the priority, and that in this case is your start up. There is the balance of accepting what you can get because the market is taking a tumble right now, but there is also the issue of can you actually be successful with that. I went into my negotiations with the mindset of I had told them my research plans, they had hired me knowing that, so they should want me to be able to be successful. Did you make a list of what you needed/wanted and justified it? If so, time to reiterate with them why you need these things. There might be alternate ways to get things too- shared with other people, institutional grants, teaching release while you get grants to buy these things, students supported by dept/TAships, etc. But make sure you aren't walking into a situation that you cannot be successful in.
|
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
| 1 | 3,113 | 1.75 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxmb7d
|
fnxs7je
| 1,587,341,633 | 1,587,345,250 | 12 | 23 |
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
|
You know that movie trope where someone tumbles off a cliff, falling a frightening distance, but manages to grab on to a slight ledge momentarily stopping a plummet all the way to the bottom? Maybe they'll pull themselves back up or maybe they'll lose their grip and free fall to the bottom. That's where academia (and with it the academic job market) is right now, down and hanging on precariously. Schools are facing significant threats to enrollment, which costs them in both tuition and auxiliary revenue, while having to simultaneously adjust to a new model for their services. Endowments haven taken a hit from the stock market drop. Fear and uncertainty is causing normally very tradition-bound institutions to abandon certain norms, renege on contracts, and eat their own seed corn out of immediate need. And they have the cover of "generational catastrophe" to excuse and rationalize it. If you like the salary, it's in line with published values, and you'd be willing to work at the place, lock that down asap. Get your actual contract or appointment letter signed and hope the school doesn't renege.
| 0 | 3,617 | 1.916667 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxmb7d
|
fny1con
| 1,587,341,633 | 1,587,351,049 | 12 | 18 |
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
|
Normally: yes. Negotiate everything, but have a good justification for every item that isn't your salary. These days: lock that job offer up asap. Ask the chair how likely your offer will be pulled.
| 0 | 9,416 | 1.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxwwqs
|
fny1con
| 1,587,348,098 | 1,587,351,049 | 5 | 18 |
Only push the salary if you have a legit reason to expect more. The startup is concerning. Can you execute your research agenda with that amount as your foundation? Is it possible for you to generate pilot data, realistically pursue extramural funding, etc? In other words, will this be enough for you to produce what is needed to get tenure? The answers depend on the nature of your research, the feasibility of collecting data with little/no grad student support, your teaching and administrative obligations. Be objective when considering these questions. I would not assume the university will be able to make up the difference in future years. Maybe a colleague already has some of your required equipment and is a team player? It's worth asking. If you absolutely can't make it work with this level of startup funding, then this might not be a good fit.
|
Normally: yes. Negotiate everything, but have a good justification for every item that isn't your salary. These days: lock that job offer up asap. Ask the chair how likely your offer will be pulled.
| 0 | 2,951 | 3.6 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxmb7d
|
fny1gt2
| 1,587,341,633 | 1,587,351,125 | 12 | 15 |
I do think it is gauche to ask other people in the department what they got (unless you were friends with them before you interviewed there or something). Talk to your peers about what they were offered at other institutions or talk to your mentors about how to approach negotiations.
|
My suggestions (And congrats!) are: 1). Know that the public salaries may be a year out of date, so negotiating up a little can't hurt. 2). This startup seems VERY low to me and I would ask the department head about it rather bluntly. You can frame it as How do I get the resources I need to survive / thrive in this job? What are the expectations for tenure or even year 1 and 2 productivity?
| 0 | 9,492 | 1.25 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnxwwqs
|
fny1gt2
| 1,587,348,098 | 1,587,351,125 | 5 | 15 |
Only push the salary if you have a legit reason to expect more. The startup is concerning. Can you execute your research agenda with that amount as your foundation? Is it possible for you to generate pilot data, realistically pursue extramural funding, etc? In other words, will this be enough for you to produce what is needed to get tenure? The answers depend on the nature of your research, the feasibility of collecting data with little/no grad student support, your teaching and administrative obligations. Be objective when considering these questions. I would not assume the university will be able to make up the difference in future years. Maybe a colleague already has some of your required equipment and is a team player? It's worth asking. If you absolutely can't make it work with this level of startup funding, then this might not be a good fit.
|
My suggestions (And congrats!) are: 1). Know that the public salaries may be a year out of date, so negotiating up a little can't hurt. 2). This startup seems VERY low to me and I would ask the department head about it rather bluntly. You can frame it as How do I get the resources I need to survive / thrive in this job? What are the expectations for tenure or even year 1 and 2 productivity?
| 0 | 3,027 | 3 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnyda85
|
fnxwwqs
| 1,587,359,751 | 1,587,348,098 | 12 | 5 |
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
|
Only push the salary if you have a legit reason to expect more. The startup is concerning. Can you execute your research agenda with that amount as your foundation? Is it possible for you to generate pilot data, realistically pursue extramural funding, etc? In other words, will this be enough for you to produce what is needed to get tenure? The answers depend on the nature of your research, the feasibility of collecting data with little/no grad student support, your teaching and administrative obligations. Be objective when considering these questions. I would not assume the university will be able to make up the difference in future years. Maybe a colleague already has some of your required equipment and is a team player? It's worth asking. If you absolutely can't make it work with this level of startup funding, then this might not be a good fit.
| 1 | 11,653 | 2.4 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny1xzx
|
fnyda85
| 1,587,351,442 | 1,587,359,751 | 5 | 12 |
Normally I would say absolutely negotiate, 100% you would be - I hate to say stupid, but - stupid if you didn't. In these trying times, I just have no idea! If the salary is good, leave it, but that is an absurdly low start up package to get a lab up and running. Maybe impossible, but I'm unfamiliar with your field. I run a lab at an R1 institute and that would buy us one freezer and a PCR machine with no money left for labor. I think the advice given that your department wants you to succeed is good, so you need to tell them what you need and see if they can meet you somewhere in the middle. Additionally, can they offer any TA ships or assistantships as well so you can guarantee some funding for a student? Good luck!
|
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
| 0 | 8,309 | 2.4 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnycx0w
|
fnyda85
| 1,587,359,454 | 1,587,359,751 | 5 | 12 |
What the? Did they drop a 0 from your offer? That's barely enough to pay for reagents. How can you hire a technician or postdoc to generate some results for papers and grants? I have seen startup packages with 10x that. That's crazy. Is it a teaching heavy position?
|
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
| 0 | 297 | 2.4 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnyda85
|
fny74xe
| 1,587,359,751 | 1,587,355,064 | 12 | 3 |
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
|
Look at The Professor Is In book. I bought it when I got my first job offer. It helped tremendously and was worth the $15. There's specifically a chapter on negotiating (there's also a blog post...give that a look first).
| 1 | 4,687 | 4 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnyda85
|
fny6g0z
| 1,587,359,751 | 1,587,354,565 | 12 | 2 |
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
|
Use the fact they don’t have to pay moving fees to bump up your startup. And it’s OK to ask for more. Say, I think I am worth such and such. If they won’t go up, maybe you can get other goodies
| 1 | 5,186 | 6 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny7ov2
|
fnyda85
| 1,587,355,459 | 1,587,359,751 | 2 | 12 |
Woot! Congrats! Having been in this very position, yes, you should negotiate. It is expected that you will (in writing up their offer, they did not assume that you had no others against which to negotiate). In your response: 1. Be enthusiastic, courteous, and grateful, 2. Ask for a modest raise (I asked for 5k and got 2k), 3. Ask for more in start-up funds, and justify your request with a couple of representative expenses, 4. Again, be enthusiastic, courteous, and grateful. These things would help ensure your success and your University wants you to succeed. Regarding asking other folks at your uni, I think this depends on the vibe you got from them. If you got on well with that other professor, then go ahead and ask. It's awkward, but it's not odd.
|
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
| 0 | 4,292 | 6 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnyda85
|
fny9znn
| 1,587,359,751 | 1,587,357,157 | 12 | 2 |
First off - congratulations on the job offer! When I took my first job as an Assistant Professor about 10 years ago in the University of California system, I had the same concerns. The very helpful chair at the time told me that the salary was not negotiable, so I ended up not arguing for more salary at the time. Looking back, that was still the right decision, as now, on the other side of hiring, I see how set in stone most salaries are. The main way to negotiate for a higher salary is to have a competing job offer with a higher salary. The university then may have access to additional funds (typically at the dean level) that can be used to counter such other offers with a new salary offer. Most universities keep starting salaries within a very similar range, and checking that you are being offered a salary on par with others in your position is the best approach. If you are satisfied with the salary and don't have a competing offer, I would take the salary offer without negotiation. In contrast, **startup funds are typically VERY negotiable**. I was very very hesitant to ask for more when I was negotiating, but my husband at the time (who worked in the computer startup world) pushed me to try negotiating the offer. I thought maybe I would ask for about 10k more, but he convinced me to ask for 100k more. And it WORKED! They expected me to negotiate the startup, and every hire I have seen since then has had the same expectation. I am in neuroimaging (which has larger startups than some fields due to the cost of the research), and was offered $200,000 at first. I asked for $300,000, and received $290,000 with no concerns or push-back from the university . It turns out that the other person hired the same year as I was ended up receiving exactly the same startup. If I had not asked, I would have been left with the $200,000. I can't imagine how much worse off I would have been without the extra $90k. I now share this story with whomever I can, as we receive so little training in this in grad school or postdoc positions. Do NOT be afraid to ask for more. There is pretty much no chance that the school will withdraw the offer if you ask for too much. They already have sunk time and money into choosing you, and they risk losing the faculty line at this point if they do not hire you (and given the coming economic crisis, the loss of the faculty line for the department is very likely). If they can't go higher, they will simply tell you so and then let you decide whether you can accept the position or not with the offered startup. I am now working on a lot of campus and state budget issues for my university. This same advice will still apply in the current economic situation. Schools in CA are dealing with the crisis with different approaches: worst case scenario is schools withdrawing an offer. Such a case would be totally independent of what you request, as it is a directive that would come from the Chancellor/President/Provost (central administration). Your department would most likely still be fighting to keep you. Your story does NOT sound like this worst case is an issue for you. Most common case right now in CA is that offers already out there will continue to go through, but new hires will be restricted in varying ways that differ by school. That means that normal negotiation will continue in most cases for current offers. As other comments have noted, you need to ask for what will make your research move forward effectively. That may be hard to know, but more is better -- I still have some startup funds left that support new endeavors. Startup funds are unrestricted usually, unlike grants, so they are very important to obtain. I suggest maybe telling them that you would ideally need more startup funds even just for startup equipment and, if possible, provide them with examples of other packages you may know about. Do you have any friends in similar positions you could ask you are not at your university for a comparison of current startups in your field? In terms of supporting students, will you be required to support students, or is there other departmental support, like tuition remission from TAships? In our department, we have TAships for grad students and also support students using grant money. None of us uses startup funds for student support, as those are better used for research that can be used as pilot data for future grant funding. tl/dr: **Be sure to negotiate your startup funds!** Good luck, and congrats! :)
|
Identify the three pieces of lab equipment which you would expect to be exclusive to your lab. Itemize those costs. Identify the chemical reagents which you would expect to use on a regular basis. Itemize those costs. Come to the table with those numbers and multiply by at least 1.5.
| 1 | 2,594 | 6 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnycx0w
|
fny74xe
| 1,587,359,454 | 1,587,355,064 | 5 | 3 |
What the? Did they drop a 0 from your offer? That's barely enough to pay for reagents. How can you hire a technician or postdoc to generate some results for papers and grants? I have seen startup packages with 10x that. That's crazy. Is it a teaching heavy position?
|
Look at The Professor Is In book. I bought it when I got my first job offer. It helped tremendously and was worth the $15. There's specifically a chapter on negotiating (there's also a blog post...give that a look first).
| 1 | 4,390 | 1.666667 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnycx0w
|
fny6g0z
| 1,587,359,454 | 1,587,354,565 | 5 | 2 |
What the? Did they drop a 0 from your offer? That's barely enough to pay for reagents. How can you hire a technician or postdoc to generate some results for papers and grants? I have seen startup packages with 10x that. That's crazy. Is it a teaching heavy position?
|
Use the fact they don’t have to pay moving fees to bump up your startup. And it’s OK to ask for more. Say, I think I am worth such and such. If they won’t go up, maybe you can get other goodies
| 1 | 4,889 | 2.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny7ov2
|
fnycx0w
| 1,587,355,459 | 1,587,359,454 | 2 | 5 |
Woot! Congrats! Having been in this very position, yes, you should negotiate. It is expected that you will (in writing up their offer, they did not assume that you had no others against which to negotiate). In your response: 1. Be enthusiastic, courteous, and grateful, 2. Ask for a modest raise (I asked for 5k and got 2k), 3. Ask for more in start-up funds, and justify your request with a couple of representative expenses, 4. Again, be enthusiastic, courteous, and grateful. These things would help ensure your success and your University wants you to succeed. Regarding asking other folks at your uni, I think this depends on the vibe you got from them. If you got on well with that other professor, then go ahead and ask. It's awkward, but it's not odd.
|
What the? Did they drop a 0 from your offer? That's barely enough to pay for reagents. How can you hire a technician or postdoc to generate some results for papers and grants? I have seen startup packages with 10x that. That's crazy. Is it a teaching heavy position?
| 0 | 3,995 | 2.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny9znn
|
fnycx0w
| 1,587,357,157 | 1,587,359,454 | 2 | 5 |
Identify the three pieces of lab equipment which you would expect to be exclusive to your lab. Itemize those costs. Identify the chemical reagents which you would expect to use on a regular basis. Itemize those costs. Come to the table with those numbers and multiply by at least 1.5.
|
What the? Did they drop a 0 from your offer? That's barely enough to pay for reagents. How can you hire a technician or postdoc to generate some results for papers and grants? I have seen startup packages with 10x that. That's crazy. Is it a teaching heavy position?
| 0 | 2,297 | 2.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny74xe
|
fnyh1k9
| 1,587,355,064 | 1,587,362,850 | 3 | 5 |
Look at The Professor Is In book. I bought it when I got my first job offer. It helped tremendously and was worth the $15. There's specifically a chapter on negotiating (there's also a blog post...give that a look first).
|
That's.... Really, really low for startup. That's lower than or on-par with most PUI startup offers I got, and much lower than the ones with research expectations. Your order of magnitude higher estimate would still put it on the low end of R1 startups, imo. Does it have grad student funding bundled in or separate? I would definitely negotiate, and be prepared with a detailed budget of what you need. I was able to get substantial increases in mine by having an itemized list of what I would use it for, complete with quotes.
| 0 | 7,786 | 1.666667 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fny6g0z
|
fnyh1k9
| 1,587,354,565 | 1,587,362,850 | 2 | 5 |
Use the fact they don’t have to pay moving fees to bump up your startup. And it’s OK to ask for more. Say, I think I am worth such and such. If they won’t go up, maybe you can get other goodies
|
That's.... Really, really low for startup. That's lower than or on-par with most PUI startup offers I got, and much lower than the ones with research expectations. Your order of magnitude higher estimate would still put it on the low end of R1 startups, imo. Does it have grad student funding bundled in or separate? I would definitely negotiate, and be prepared with a detailed budget of what you need. I was able to get substantial increases in mine by having an itemized list of what I would use it for, complete with quotes.
| 0 | 8,285 | 2.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnyh1k9
|
fny7ov2
| 1,587,362,850 | 1,587,355,459 | 5 | 2 |
That's.... Really, really low for startup. That's lower than or on-par with most PUI startup offers I got, and much lower than the ones with research expectations. Your order of magnitude higher estimate would still put it on the low end of R1 startups, imo. Does it have grad student funding bundled in or separate? I would definitely negotiate, and be prepared with a detailed budget of what you need. I was able to get substantial increases in mine by having an itemized list of what I would use it for, complete with quotes.
|
Woot! Congrats! Having been in this very position, yes, you should negotiate. It is expected that you will (in writing up their offer, they did not assume that you had no others against which to negotiate). In your response: 1. Be enthusiastic, courteous, and grateful, 2. Ask for a modest raise (I asked for 5k and got 2k), 3. Ask for more in start-up funds, and justify your request with a couple of representative expenses, 4. Again, be enthusiastic, courteous, and grateful. These things would help ensure your success and your University wants you to succeed. Regarding asking other folks at your uni, I think this depends on the vibe you got from them. If you got on well with that other professor, then go ahead and ask. It's awkward, but it's not odd.
| 1 | 7,391 | 2.5 |
g4ifwl
|
askacademia_train
| 0.97 |
I just received tenure track offer and start up package - do I need to negotiate? Is it gauche to discuss with a new prof in the dept? I received a tenure track asst prof offer on Fri in chemical engineering at a mid level R1 institute in the US. I am happy! I do not have other offers and 100% plan to take this because my husband is here and there’s no other option within two hour commute. (1) I can see salaries online as they are public. I am very happy with the salary offer. Should I still negotiate? Always? (2) The start up funding is quite low ($25,000) unexpectedly low, for someone who does wet chemistry. I genuinely expected it to be an order of magnitude higher. I cannot buy any piece of equipment or support even one student with this money. Not sure what to even say. I thought about asking another professor who just began in the dept last year what he thought I could negotiate for in funding. Unsure what’s appropriate given the large chasm. Almost want to accept and not deal with it, after I waited 3 months for the offer.
|
fnyh1k9
|
fny9znn
| 1,587,362,850 | 1,587,357,157 | 5 | 2 |
That's.... Really, really low for startup. That's lower than or on-par with most PUI startup offers I got, and much lower than the ones with research expectations. Your order of magnitude higher estimate would still put it on the low end of R1 startups, imo. Does it have grad student funding bundled in or separate? I would definitely negotiate, and be prepared with a detailed budget of what you need. I was able to get substantial increases in mine by having an itemized list of what I would use it for, complete with quotes.
|
Identify the three pieces of lab equipment which you would expect to be exclusive to your lab. Itemize those costs. Identify the chemical reagents which you would expect to use on a regular basis. Itemize those costs. Come to the table with those numbers and multiply by at least 1.5.
| 1 | 5,693 | 2.5 |
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