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h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp125l
|
ftp20ja
| 1,591,883,066 | 1,591,883,601 | 25 | 100 |
Yes, I agree. I don't see in-class classes being feasible, especially a lab or similar setup. The administration, in my experience, view is to pretend everything will be just fine come the fall. I'm not sure if that is optimism or just trying to pretend that there isn't a problem.
|
Last week I spent Monday morning planning out a seminar for my class in September. We're doing hybrid teaching, so we're going to have one cohort who's taking the class online and half (if we're lucky) who are actually in the building. So, I'm planning the class and I want to have them interview each other to identify an entrepreneurial opportunity and then reflect on how they observed it. Online, as you say, it's easy enough. Breakout rooms, shared whiteboards, easy peasy. But then I realised I Can't Do That In Person. 2 meters distance! I'm in Scotland so the guidance is "leave room for a hairy coo". How are we supposed to have in-person seminars people need to shout at each other from across the room to think, pair, share? Frankly, I think the underlying assumption to any in-person teaching plans is that by September we're going to ignore a lot of social distancing guidelines. Either formally as the regulations get changed or informally because that's just the way things have to be for it to work. There is no solution for making teaching work in a Covid world. We're just pretending there is in order to preserve some sense of normality and ensure there is some sort of teaching income.
| 0 | 535 | 4 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp125l
|
ftp2y41
| 1,591,883,066 | 1,591,884,120 | 25 | 58 |
Yes, I agree. I don't see in-class classes being feasible, especially a lab or similar setup. The administration, in my experience, view is to pretend everything will be just fine come the fall. I'm not sure if that is optimism or just trying to pretend that there isn't a problem.
|
What about hallways and stairways? This is clearly not feasible.
| 0 | 1,054 | 2.32 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp2y41
|
ftp24si
| 1,591,884,120 | 1,591,883,666 | 58 | 17 |
What about hallways and stairways? This is clearly not feasible.
|
Seems like large lectures that are not super collaborative could work ok but small group / partner work is going to be a real hurdle for sure.
| 1 | 454 | 3.411765 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp125l
|
ftp448f
| 1,591,883,066 | 1,591,884,770 | 25 | 43 |
Yes, I agree. I don't see in-class classes being feasible, especially a lab or similar setup. The administration, in my experience, view is to pretend everything will be just fine come the fall. I'm not sure if that is optimism or just trying to pretend that there isn't a problem.
|
My university has basically given us a mathematically impossible task. I have an 800 square foot classroom. 27 students. It's packed tight in a normal semester. But no, we aren't making class sizes smaller. (Obviously, because then we would have to hire people). And "it's on the professors to ensure that guidelines are being followed." The only reason why I'm not entirely worried is because they are also requiring that our classes be adaptable for *both* virtual and in-person students (... instead of some remote/virtual classes and some in-person classes... because that would clearly be too hard) and we have to be ready for students to determine their status on a class by class basis throughout the semester (for instance, if a student would be exposed and need to self quarantine or basically if they just decide to stop coming to class because we obviously can't argue with students about whether it's safe or not). So while I haven't quite figured out how to adapt a curriculum to meet all of these needs at once, on the plus side, I am pretty confident nobody will show up for class after the first week.
| 0 | 1,704 | 1.72 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp448f
|
ftp24si
| 1,591,884,770 | 1,591,883,666 | 43 | 17 |
My university has basically given us a mathematically impossible task. I have an 800 square foot classroom. 27 students. It's packed tight in a normal semester. But no, we aren't making class sizes smaller. (Obviously, because then we would have to hire people). And "it's on the professors to ensure that guidelines are being followed." The only reason why I'm not entirely worried is because they are also requiring that our classes be adaptable for *both* virtual and in-person students (... instead of some remote/virtual classes and some in-person classes... because that would clearly be too hard) and we have to be ready for students to determine their status on a class by class basis throughout the semester (for instance, if a student would be exposed and need to self quarantine or basically if they just decide to stop coming to class because we obviously can't argue with students about whether it's safe or not). So while I haven't quite figured out how to adapt a curriculum to meet all of these needs at once, on the plus side, I am pretty confident nobody will show up for class after the first week.
|
Seems like large lectures that are not super collaborative could work ok but small group / partner work is going to be a real hurdle for sure.
| 1 | 1,104 | 2.529412 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftphfjn
|
ftpoz47
| 1,591,891,497 | 1,591,895,073 | 8 | 15 |
Sitting in a meeting last week where it was (correctly) pointed out that the halls in most of our older buildings aren't even six feet wide, which renders moot basically everything else being planned.
|
I just don’t see how classrooms are anywhere near the biggest problem. No matter how much we distance in there these kids are still going back to their cramped dorms and apartments.
| 0 | 3,576 | 1.875 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftpoz47
|
ftp8h94
| 1,591,895,073 | 1,591,887,064 | 15 | 5 |
I just don’t see how classrooms are anywhere near the biggest problem. No matter how much we distance in there these kids are still going back to their cramped dorms and apartments.
|
Collaborating in Google Docs or Slides (or similar) may be a way to work in groups in real time from various devices. If you have a main doc/slide open and on your monitor, you can watch each group’s progress from a distance and offer feedback verbally or in the chat. If there is a full class review of what each group discussed, you can project the shared doc while students talk from their seats.
| 1 | 8,009 | 3 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftpoz47
|
ftp8xpx
| 1,591,895,073 | 1,591,887,295 | 15 | 3 |
I just don’t see how classrooms are anywhere near the biggest problem. No matter how much we distance in there these kids are still going back to their cramped dorms and apartments.
|
There are other technologies you can use aside from zoom. I'm planning to incorporate something like flipgrid into different assignments to encourage discussion in a little bit of a different way. Something like flipgrid is also nice because it gives every student an equal spotlight to speak up about something and it could actually lead to a more well rounded discussion with thoughts and opinions from students who might not normally speak up.
| 1 | 7,778 | 5 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftpoz47
|
ftphdef
| 1,591,895,073 | 1,591,891,468 | 15 | 3 |
I just don’t see how classrooms are anywhere near the biggest problem. No matter how much we distance in there these kids are still going back to their cramped dorms and apartments.
|
each class needs a continual air filter at the top of the room, kind of like the old smoke-eaters they had to put in bars for awhile
| 1 | 3,605 | 5 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftptsw6
|
ftq41mx
| 1,591,897,390 | 1,591,902,279 | 9 | 11 |
I agree with you that there is a lot of magical thinking going on about distancing in classrooms, but I also think that's small fish. Here in Canada, where most large universities are in urban areas with relatively few students in residence, the conversation has started to move past that to just getting to class. Even if we make the classroom work (and that's a big if), many/most students are coming in by transit; the Uinversity of Toronto, York, Ryerson, Uinversité de Montrléal, UQÀM, McGill, and Concordia all have subway stations on campus (or essentially on campus). Plus, many classrooms and offices are located in large towers that essentially necessitate the use of (cramped) elevators, and even the ground level of many campuses can be packed almost shoulder-to-shoulder at class change time. Even if we figure out the classrooms, what's the point if students can't get there while social distancing? Essentially it's looking like we'll only be able to do in-person classes once we're comfortable not social distancing. My uiniversity is pretty firm that Fall will be online only, with some very rare exceptions for particular classes, assuming provincial public health regulations allow it. Winter is still a big question mark, but essentially it looks like we need to find a way to be OK with not distancing to allow it in person.
|
It seems to me that most people are thinking about distancing the wrong way. Being 1 or 2 meters apart isn't enough, by far, if you're closed in the same room for long time (there are many case reports of a single person infecting a whole bus of people, even those at the other end, of a call center where the whole floor got infected etc...). At the same time, ultrashort contacts (hallways) are not really an issue. So... Let's stop feaking out about how many people you can fit into a class with X distance or if you can make hallways less prone to incidental contacts. In person lessons cannot be achieved, unless the virus is under control in the country in general thanks to some technical solution (maybe widely adopted and ultra-precise contact tracing when very few cases in the whole nation are present?) Having said that... Let's face it. Remote things suck. I work in a hospital, therefore we were always allowed to go to work (I work in Milan, one of the hardest hit areas in the world) and I went back to the office as soon as the situation got slightly acceptable because talking to colleagues via skype/zoom/teams etc... is just soooooooooo ineffective
| 0 | 4,889 | 1.222222 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftphfjn
|
ftq41mx
| 1,591,891,497 | 1,591,902,279 | 8 | 11 |
Sitting in a meeting last week where it was (correctly) pointed out that the halls in most of our older buildings aren't even six feet wide, which renders moot basically everything else being planned.
|
It seems to me that most people are thinking about distancing the wrong way. Being 1 or 2 meters apart isn't enough, by far, if you're closed in the same room for long time (there are many case reports of a single person infecting a whole bus of people, even those at the other end, of a call center where the whole floor got infected etc...). At the same time, ultrashort contacts (hallways) are not really an issue. So... Let's stop feaking out about how many people you can fit into a class with X distance or if you can make hallways less prone to incidental contacts. In person lessons cannot be achieved, unless the virus is under control in the country in general thanks to some technical solution (maybe widely adopted and ultra-precise contact tracing when very few cases in the whole nation are present?) Having said that... Let's face it. Remote things suck. I work in a hospital, therefore we were always allowed to go to work (I work in Milan, one of the hardest hit areas in the world) and I went back to the office as soon as the situation got slightly acceptable because talking to colleagues via skype/zoom/teams etc... is just soooooooooo ineffective
| 0 | 10,782 | 1.375 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp8h94
|
ftq41mx
| 1,591,887,064 | 1,591,902,279 | 5 | 11 |
Collaborating in Google Docs or Slides (or similar) may be a way to work in groups in real time from various devices. If you have a main doc/slide open and on your monitor, you can watch each group’s progress from a distance and offer feedback verbally or in the chat. If there is a full class review of what each group discussed, you can project the shared doc while students talk from their seats.
|
It seems to me that most people are thinking about distancing the wrong way. Being 1 or 2 meters apart isn't enough, by far, if you're closed in the same room for long time (there are many case reports of a single person infecting a whole bus of people, even those at the other end, of a call center where the whole floor got infected etc...). At the same time, ultrashort contacts (hallways) are not really an issue. So... Let's stop feaking out about how many people you can fit into a class with X distance or if you can make hallways less prone to incidental contacts. In person lessons cannot be achieved, unless the virus is under control in the country in general thanks to some technical solution (maybe widely adopted and ultra-precise contact tracing when very few cases in the whole nation are present?) Having said that... Let's face it. Remote things suck. I work in a hospital, therefore we were always allowed to go to work (I work in Milan, one of the hardest hit areas in the world) and I went back to the office as soon as the situation got slightly acceptable because talking to colleagues via skype/zoom/teams etc... is just soooooooooo ineffective
| 0 | 15,215 | 2.2 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftp8xpx
|
ftq41mx
| 1,591,887,295 | 1,591,902,279 | 3 | 11 |
There are other technologies you can use aside from zoom. I'm planning to incorporate something like flipgrid into different assignments to encourage discussion in a little bit of a different way. Something like flipgrid is also nice because it gives every student an equal spotlight to speak up about something and it could actually lead to a more well rounded discussion with thoughts and opinions from students who might not normally speak up.
|
It seems to me that most people are thinking about distancing the wrong way. Being 1 or 2 meters apart isn't enough, by far, if you're closed in the same room for long time (there are many case reports of a single person infecting a whole bus of people, even those at the other end, of a call center where the whole floor got infected etc...). At the same time, ultrashort contacts (hallways) are not really an issue. So... Let's stop feaking out about how many people you can fit into a class with X distance or if you can make hallways less prone to incidental contacts. In person lessons cannot be achieved, unless the virus is under control in the country in general thanks to some technical solution (maybe widely adopted and ultra-precise contact tracing when very few cases in the whole nation are present?) Having said that... Let's face it. Remote things suck. I work in a hospital, therefore we were always allowed to go to work (I work in Milan, one of the hardest hit areas in the world) and I went back to the office as soon as the situation got slightly acceptable because talking to colleagues via skype/zoom/teams etc... is just soooooooooo ineffective
| 0 | 14,984 | 3.666667 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftq41mx
|
ftphdef
| 1,591,902,279 | 1,591,891,468 | 11 | 3 |
It seems to me that most people are thinking about distancing the wrong way. Being 1 or 2 meters apart isn't enough, by far, if you're closed in the same room for long time (there are many case reports of a single person infecting a whole bus of people, even those at the other end, of a call center where the whole floor got infected etc...). At the same time, ultrashort contacts (hallways) are not really an issue. So... Let's stop feaking out about how many people you can fit into a class with X distance or if you can make hallways less prone to incidental contacts. In person lessons cannot be achieved, unless the virus is under control in the country in general thanks to some technical solution (maybe widely adopted and ultra-precise contact tracing when very few cases in the whole nation are present?) Having said that... Let's face it. Remote things suck. I work in a hospital, therefore we were always allowed to go to work (I work in Milan, one of the hardest hit areas in the world) and I went back to the office as soon as the situation got slightly acceptable because talking to colleagues via skype/zoom/teams etc... is just soooooooooo ineffective
|
each class needs a continual air filter at the top of the room, kind of like the old smoke-eaters they had to put in bars for awhile
| 1 | 10,811 | 3.666667 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftq41mx
|
ftpv6m6
| 1,591,902,279 | 1,591,898,058 | 11 | 2 |
It seems to me that most people are thinking about distancing the wrong way. Being 1 or 2 meters apart isn't enough, by far, if you're closed in the same room for long time (there are many case reports of a single person infecting a whole bus of people, even those at the other end, of a call center where the whole floor got infected etc...). At the same time, ultrashort contacts (hallways) are not really an issue. So... Let's stop feaking out about how many people you can fit into a class with X distance or if you can make hallways less prone to incidental contacts. In person lessons cannot be achieved, unless the virus is under control in the country in general thanks to some technical solution (maybe widely adopted and ultra-precise contact tracing when very few cases in the whole nation are present?) Having said that... Let's face it. Remote things suck. I work in a hospital, therefore we were always allowed to go to work (I work in Milan, one of the hardest hit areas in the world) and I went back to the office as soon as the situation got slightly acceptable because talking to colleagues via skype/zoom/teams etc... is just soooooooooo ineffective
|
I’m lucky in that I have pretty small classes that usually use very large spaces (music classes, if I only have six students but I still need open space and a grand piano, guess who gets to use the lecture hall that seats 200?) They can spread out plenty and we can still have a good discussion without it being a problem. We have some older faculty, and students with underlying conditions, so we may just decide to take those “lecture-style” classes online and it won’t be a massive disruption. I suspect many faculty at our school will go the same route - we got lots of practice teaching remotely March-May, and many of the kinks have been worked out. However, we’re really struggling with what to do with the performing ensembles (and I’d love to hear what other people are planning to do!). All the research coming out from the WHO, CDC, and many choral organizations is saying no in-person choirs for the foreseeable future. I still want to have the kids have SOME kind of group singing (and they’ll be heartbroken without it) but even breaking the Chamber choir up into quartets or something may not be safe, not to mention the massive logistical issues involved with something like that. And with the larger choir....half of them don’t read music and almost none are confident enough to sing alone, so a similar plan with them is not an option. I have some ideas on the chalkboard for zoom-facilitated work, but honestly at this point I have to wait for the administration to make some decisions. (Which they should get off their asses and make already, because if I have to teach conducting remotely I have a TON of prep work to do.) The opera and orchestra are in a similar situation - I guess just the string players could meet spread out and play together but you can’t play clarinet with a mask on, so.... Sorry, this mostly just turned into a rant. A much-needed rant, but still.
| 1 | 4,221 | 5.5 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftptsw6
|
ftphfjn
| 1,591,897,390 | 1,591,891,497 | 9 | 8 |
I agree with you that there is a lot of magical thinking going on about distancing in classrooms, but I also think that's small fish. Here in Canada, where most large universities are in urban areas with relatively few students in residence, the conversation has started to move past that to just getting to class. Even if we make the classroom work (and that's a big if), many/most students are coming in by transit; the Uinversity of Toronto, York, Ryerson, Uinversité de Montrléal, UQÀM, McGill, and Concordia all have subway stations on campus (or essentially on campus). Plus, many classrooms and offices are located in large towers that essentially necessitate the use of (cramped) elevators, and even the ground level of many campuses can be packed almost shoulder-to-shoulder at class change time. Even if we figure out the classrooms, what's the point if students can't get there while social distancing? Essentially it's looking like we'll only be able to do in-person classes once we're comfortable not social distancing. My uiniversity is pretty firm that Fall will be online only, with some very rare exceptions for particular classes, assuming provincial public health regulations allow it. Winter is still a big question mark, but essentially it looks like we need to find a way to be OK with not distancing to allow it in person.
|
Sitting in a meeting last week where it was (correctly) pointed out that the halls in most of our older buildings aren't even six feet wide, which renders moot basically everything else being planned.
| 1 | 5,893 | 1.125 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftptsw6
|
ftp8h94
| 1,591,897,390 | 1,591,887,064 | 9 | 5 |
I agree with you that there is a lot of magical thinking going on about distancing in classrooms, but I also think that's small fish. Here in Canada, where most large universities are in urban areas with relatively few students in residence, the conversation has started to move past that to just getting to class. Even if we make the classroom work (and that's a big if), many/most students are coming in by transit; the Uinversity of Toronto, York, Ryerson, Uinversité de Montrléal, UQÀM, McGill, and Concordia all have subway stations on campus (or essentially on campus). Plus, many classrooms and offices are located in large towers that essentially necessitate the use of (cramped) elevators, and even the ground level of many campuses can be packed almost shoulder-to-shoulder at class change time. Even if we figure out the classrooms, what's the point if students can't get there while social distancing? Essentially it's looking like we'll only be able to do in-person classes once we're comfortable not social distancing. My uiniversity is pretty firm that Fall will be online only, with some very rare exceptions for particular classes, assuming provincial public health regulations allow it. Winter is still a big question mark, but essentially it looks like we need to find a way to be OK with not distancing to allow it in person.
|
Collaborating in Google Docs or Slides (or similar) may be a way to work in groups in real time from various devices. If you have a main doc/slide open and on your monitor, you can watch each group’s progress from a distance and offer feedback verbally or in the chat. If there is a full class review of what each group discussed, you can project the shared doc while students talk from their seats.
| 1 | 10,326 | 1.8 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftptsw6
|
ftp8xpx
| 1,591,897,390 | 1,591,887,295 | 9 | 3 |
I agree with you that there is a lot of magical thinking going on about distancing in classrooms, but I also think that's small fish. Here in Canada, where most large universities are in urban areas with relatively few students in residence, the conversation has started to move past that to just getting to class. Even if we make the classroom work (and that's a big if), many/most students are coming in by transit; the Uinversity of Toronto, York, Ryerson, Uinversité de Montrléal, UQÀM, McGill, and Concordia all have subway stations on campus (or essentially on campus). Plus, many classrooms and offices are located in large towers that essentially necessitate the use of (cramped) elevators, and even the ground level of many campuses can be packed almost shoulder-to-shoulder at class change time. Even if we figure out the classrooms, what's the point if students can't get there while social distancing? Essentially it's looking like we'll only be able to do in-person classes once we're comfortable not social distancing. My uiniversity is pretty firm that Fall will be online only, with some very rare exceptions for particular classes, assuming provincial public health regulations allow it. Winter is still a big question mark, but essentially it looks like we need to find a way to be OK with not distancing to allow it in person.
|
There are other technologies you can use aside from zoom. I'm planning to incorporate something like flipgrid into different assignments to encourage discussion in a little bit of a different way. Something like flipgrid is also nice because it gives every student an equal spotlight to speak up about something and it could actually lead to a more well rounded discussion with thoughts and opinions from students who might not normally speak up.
| 1 | 10,095 | 3 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftptsw6
|
ftphdef
| 1,591,897,390 | 1,591,891,468 | 9 | 3 |
I agree with you that there is a lot of magical thinking going on about distancing in classrooms, but I also think that's small fish. Here in Canada, where most large universities are in urban areas with relatively few students in residence, the conversation has started to move past that to just getting to class. Even if we make the classroom work (and that's a big if), many/most students are coming in by transit; the Uinversity of Toronto, York, Ryerson, Uinversité de Montrléal, UQÀM, McGill, and Concordia all have subway stations on campus (or essentially on campus). Plus, many classrooms and offices are located in large towers that essentially necessitate the use of (cramped) elevators, and even the ground level of many campuses can be packed almost shoulder-to-shoulder at class change time. Even if we figure out the classrooms, what's the point if students can't get there while social distancing? Essentially it's looking like we'll only be able to do in-person classes once we're comfortable not social distancing. My uiniversity is pretty firm that Fall will be online only, with some very rare exceptions for particular classes, assuming provincial public health regulations allow it. Winter is still a big question mark, but essentially it looks like we need to find a way to be OK with not distancing to allow it in person.
|
each class needs a continual air filter at the top of the room, kind of like the old smoke-eaters they had to put in bars for awhile
| 1 | 5,922 | 3 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftphfjn
|
ftp8h94
| 1,591,891,497 | 1,591,887,064 | 8 | 5 |
Sitting in a meeting last week where it was (correctly) pointed out that the halls in most of our older buildings aren't even six feet wide, which renders moot basically everything else being planned.
|
Collaborating in Google Docs or Slides (or similar) may be a way to work in groups in real time from various devices. If you have a main doc/slide open and on your monitor, you can watch each group’s progress from a distance and offer feedback verbally or in the chat. If there is a full class review of what each group discussed, you can project the shared doc while students talk from their seats.
| 1 | 4,433 | 1.6 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftphfjn
|
ftp8xpx
| 1,591,891,497 | 1,591,887,295 | 8 | 3 |
Sitting in a meeting last week where it was (correctly) pointed out that the halls in most of our older buildings aren't even six feet wide, which renders moot basically everything else being planned.
|
There are other technologies you can use aside from zoom. I'm planning to incorporate something like flipgrid into different assignments to encourage discussion in a little bit of a different way. Something like flipgrid is also nice because it gives every student an equal spotlight to speak up about something and it could actually lead to a more well rounded discussion with thoughts and opinions from students who might not normally speak up.
| 1 | 4,202 | 2.666667 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftphfjn
|
ftphdef
| 1,591,891,497 | 1,591,891,468 | 8 | 3 |
Sitting in a meeting last week where it was (correctly) pointed out that the halls in most of our older buildings aren't even six feet wide, which renders moot basically everything else being planned.
|
each class needs a continual air filter at the top of the room, kind of like the old smoke-eaters they had to put in bars for awhile
| 1 | 29 | 2.666667 |
h0yz79
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
Am I the only one who can't see how physical distancing is feasible in classrooms? I recently read two great articles from Inside Higher Ed. " At his small, teaching-focused institution, Clark and a facilities colleague spent half a day measuring and "experiencing" every classroom and lab, all of which were designed for active learning. They looked at every space "from the perspectives of cleaning, scheduling, room capacities, HVAC systems, pedagogical practices, student and faculty behaviors, student conduct issues, and more," he wrote to the POD Network. "It's one thing to draw six-foot circles, talk about reduced classroom capacities, and propose wearing masks in class -- it's a whole other thing to actually experience it." Link This article links to Clark's amazing article: The Physically Distanced Classroom: A Day in the Life ​ I spent the morning going through my syllabus and I have a ton of small group discussion that simply isn't going to work in these new socially-distanced classrooms. Our university is telling us to plan for hybrid, which means there's another layer of unnecessary complexity to this. Despite all the complaining about online education, being able to use breakout rooms in Zoom for synchronous small group discussion is actually a huge benefit pedagogically. Except everyone seems to be desperate to get back on campus without really thinking about what it will look like. Do you have any ideas to share about how you're planning to adapt your courses for the fall?
|
ftqeajh
|
ftpv6m6
| 1,591,907,264 | 1,591,898,058 | 3 | 2 |
My building was already infested with mold due to humidity and poor HVAC. I have zero confidence my university will actually do anything to try to keep the building any cleaner now.
|
I’m lucky in that I have pretty small classes that usually use very large spaces (music classes, if I only have six students but I still need open space and a grand piano, guess who gets to use the lecture hall that seats 200?) They can spread out plenty and we can still have a good discussion without it being a problem. We have some older faculty, and students with underlying conditions, so we may just decide to take those “lecture-style” classes online and it won’t be a massive disruption. I suspect many faculty at our school will go the same route - we got lots of practice teaching remotely March-May, and many of the kinks have been worked out. However, we’re really struggling with what to do with the performing ensembles (and I’d love to hear what other people are planning to do!). All the research coming out from the WHO, CDC, and many choral organizations is saying no in-person choirs for the foreseeable future. I still want to have the kids have SOME kind of group singing (and they’ll be heartbroken without it) but even breaking the Chamber choir up into quartets or something may not be safe, not to mention the massive logistical issues involved with something like that. And with the larger choir....half of them don’t read music and almost none are confident enough to sing alone, so a similar plan with them is not an option. I have some ideas on the chalkboard for zoom-facilitated work, but honestly at this point I have to wait for the administration to make some decisions. (Which they should get off their asses and make already, because if I have to teach conducting remotely I have a TON of prep work to do.) The opera and orchestra are in a similar situation - I guess just the string players could meet spread out and play together but you can’t play clarinet with a mask on, so.... Sorry, this mostly just turned into a rant. A much-needed rant, but still.
| 1 | 9,206 | 1.5 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6egkk
|
iv6cnct
| 1,667,669,847 | 1,667,669,116 | 256 | 237 |
(This is from a social sciences perspective.) Part of the "hidden curriculum" is that it's, roughly speaking, a two-tier system. Naive low-hopers (e.g., no professor-level parents + network) get sucked in, with great idealism, thinking if they're talented and work hard enough (for someone in Tier 1) it'll be like they see it is for people in Tier 1, the people giving cool keynotes about their research, who have the grant money and resources and enough slaves to create work-life balance for themselves etc. But most people won't end up in Tier 1, and discover that Tier 2 is constant stress, overwork, ongoing humiliation, moral injury, a waste of your life, burnout, a truly systemically awful leadership class, and so on. But the next problem is that Tier 2 people get stuck - or aren't aware of their alternatives - after massive investment and sacrifice on their part. They might be terrified to lose their job if they've managed to get anything at all. So it's a dream turned nightmare you can't escape, hence the loathing. And some people in Tier 2, or decent people in Tier 1 with self-awareness, want to warn the next generation of victims. In contrast, people in Tier 1, or in Tier 2 who still aspire to be Tier 1, have an inherent conflict with that because they need fresh PhD students and postdocs to do the actual scientific work for them. So I think that explains a fair bit of the dynamics you see.
|
The thing that gnawed on my advisor was that If he had a losing streak on grants for a few years where he was ONLY in the top 85 percent and not top 90 percent, he would have to fire his staff and destroy the career trajectory of his students and postdocs. And it would be his fault for failing to run a successful lab.
| 1 | 731 | 1.080169 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6bikh
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iv6egkk
| 1,667,668,668 | 1,667,669,847 | 146 | 256 |
Many hate the path to getting tenure. It is terrible. You have no job security, make little money, have to move constantly, and there is a lot of luck involved in whether you eventually get tenure or not.
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(This is from a social sciences perspective.) Part of the "hidden curriculum" is that it's, roughly speaking, a two-tier system. Naive low-hopers (e.g., no professor-level parents + network) get sucked in, with great idealism, thinking if they're talented and work hard enough (for someone in Tier 1) it'll be like they see it is for people in Tier 1, the people giving cool keynotes about their research, who have the grant money and resources and enough slaves to create work-life balance for themselves etc. But most people won't end up in Tier 1, and discover that Tier 2 is constant stress, overwork, ongoing humiliation, moral injury, a waste of your life, burnout, a truly systemically awful leadership class, and so on. But the next problem is that Tier 2 people get stuck - or aren't aware of their alternatives - after massive investment and sacrifice on their part. They might be terrified to lose their job if they've managed to get anything at all. So it's a dream turned nightmare you can't escape, hence the loathing. And some people in Tier 2, or decent people in Tier 1 with self-awareness, want to warn the next generation of victims. In contrast, people in Tier 1, or in Tier 2 who still aspire to be Tier 1, have an inherent conflict with that because they need fresh PhD students and postdocs to do the actual scientific work for them. So I think that explains a fair bit of the dynamics you see.
| 0 | 1,179 | 1.753425 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6bp3v
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iv6egkk
| 1,667,668,741 | 1,667,669,847 | 57 | 256 |
In academia you tend to sit on temporary contracts and projects, and you always have this "carrot" in front of you that the next publication, or next grant application will booster your career if you work hard enough (meaning working late or on weekends), but it seldom does and people become frustrated. In industry you can switch positions more easily and permanent positions are available. Your career is less dependant on lucky observations and luck with publishing.
|
(This is from a social sciences perspective.) Part of the "hidden curriculum" is that it's, roughly speaking, a two-tier system. Naive low-hopers (e.g., no professor-level parents + network) get sucked in, with great idealism, thinking if they're talented and work hard enough (for someone in Tier 1) it'll be like they see it is for people in Tier 1, the people giving cool keynotes about their research, who have the grant money and resources and enough slaves to create work-life balance for themselves etc. But most people won't end up in Tier 1, and discover that Tier 2 is constant stress, overwork, ongoing humiliation, moral injury, a waste of your life, burnout, a truly systemically awful leadership class, and so on. But the next problem is that Tier 2 people get stuck - or aren't aware of their alternatives - after massive investment and sacrifice on their part. They might be terrified to lose their job if they've managed to get anything at all. So it's a dream turned nightmare you can't escape, hence the loathing. And some people in Tier 2, or decent people in Tier 1 with self-awareness, want to warn the next generation of victims. In contrast, people in Tier 1, or in Tier 2 who still aspire to be Tier 1, have an inherent conflict with that because they need fresh PhD students and postdocs to do the actual scientific work for them. So I think that explains a fair bit of the dynamics you see.
| 0 | 1,106 | 4.491228 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6b31u
|
iv6egkk
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,669,847 | 21 | 256 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
(This is from a social sciences perspective.) Part of the "hidden curriculum" is that it's, roughly speaking, a two-tier system. Naive low-hopers (e.g., no professor-level parents + network) get sucked in, with great idealism, thinking if they're talented and work hard enough (for someone in Tier 1) it'll be like they see it is for people in Tier 1, the people giving cool keynotes about their research, who have the grant money and resources and enough slaves to create work-life balance for themselves etc. But most people won't end up in Tier 1, and discover that Tier 2 is constant stress, overwork, ongoing humiliation, moral injury, a waste of your life, burnout, a truly systemically awful leadership class, and so on. But the next problem is that Tier 2 people get stuck - or aren't aware of their alternatives - after massive investment and sacrifice on their part. They might be terrified to lose their job if they've managed to get anything at all. So it's a dream turned nightmare you can't escape, hence the loathing. And some people in Tier 2, or decent people in Tier 1 with self-awareness, want to warn the next generation of victims. In contrast, people in Tier 1, or in Tier 2 who still aspire to be Tier 1, have an inherent conflict with that because they need fresh PhD students and postdocs to do the actual scientific work for them. So I think that explains a fair bit of the dynamics you see.
| 0 | 1,349 | 12.190476 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6bikh
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iv6cnct
| 1,667,668,668 | 1,667,669,116 | 146 | 237 |
Many hate the path to getting tenure. It is terrible. You have no job security, make little money, have to move constantly, and there is a lot of luck involved in whether you eventually get tenure or not.
|
The thing that gnawed on my advisor was that If he had a losing streak on grants for a few years where he was ONLY in the top 85 percent and not top 90 percent, he would have to fire his staff and destroy the career trajectory of his students and postdocs. And it would be his fault for failing to run a successful lab.
| 0 | 448 | 1.623288 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6bp3v
|
iv6cnct
| 1,667,668,741 | 1,667,669,116 | 57 | 237 |
In academia you tend to sit on temporary contracts and projects, and you always have this "carrot" in front of you that the next publication, or next grant application will booster your career if you work hard enough (meaning working late or on weekends), but it seldom does and people become frustrated. In industry you can switch positions more easily and permanent positions are available. Your career is less dependant on lucky observations and luck with publishing.
|
The thing that gnawed on my advisor was that If he had a losing streak on grants for a few years where he was ONLY in the top 85 percent and not top 90 percent, he would have to fire his staff and destroy the career trajectory of his students and postdocs. And it would be his fault for failing to run a successful lab.
| 0 | 375 | 4.157895 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6b31u
|
iv6cnct
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,669,116 | 21 | 237 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
The thing that gnawed on my advisor was that If he had a losing streak on grants for a few years where he was ONLY in the top 85 percent and not top 90 percent, he would have to fire his staff and destroy the career trajectory of his students and postdocs. And it would be his fault for failing to run a successful lab.
| 0 | 618 | 11.285714 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6ylgx
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iv6bikh
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,668,668 | 193 | 146 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
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Many hate the path to getting tenure. It is terrible. You have no job security, make little money, have to move constantly, and there is a lot of luck involved in whether you eventually get tenure or not.
| 1 | 9,525 | 1.321918 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6ylgx
|
iv6bp3v
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,668,741 | 193 | 57 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
|
In academia you tend to sit on temporary contracts and projects, and you always have this "carrot" in front of you that the next publication, or next grant application will booster your career if you work hard enough (meaning working late or on weekends), but it seldom does and people become frustrated. In industry you can switch positions more easily and permanent positions are available. Your career is less dependant on lucky observations and luck with publishing.
| 1 | 9,452 | 3.385965 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6ylgx
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iv6gq9t
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,670,765 | 193 | 37 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
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Aside from the horrible working conditions + nepotism described by others here, you are also surrounded by unhinged sociopaths almost everywhere. Ive spent almost a decade in academia and in no other job was I exposed to such an absurd amount of assholes. It is really not worth it in the long run. You either become an asshole yourself or end up with nothing well into your 30s.
| 1 | 7,428 | 5.216216 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6ylgx
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iv6pisj
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,674,365 | 193 | 34 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
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As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
| 1 | 3,828 | 5.676471 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6ylgx
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iv6fhwl
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,670,266 | 193 | 32 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
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Academia lures very smart people with promises they can research what they love and be recognized for their achievements. But day to day, even the good academic jobs are mostly teaching and administration. The more precarious positions are all that stuff for even less pay. EDIT: grammar.
| 1 | 7,927 | 6.03125 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6ylgx
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iv6gxmy
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,670,846 | 193 | 31 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
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To be fair, lots of people complain about their job, their boss, etc. That said, yea, seems common in academia. I think some part of it is similar to how we view work in general. People tend to simultaneously loathe and take pride in how “busy” and or exhausted they are. As if you aren’t working hard enough if you aren’t balls-to-the-wall working or burn out. I think the amount of education also contribute to academics constantly loathing in self-pity.
| 1 | 7,347 | 6.225806 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6hsxu
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iv6ylgx
| 1,667,671,201 | 1,667,678,193 | 27 | 193 |
The ones who are most bitter have probably experienced a lot of pain and disappointment concerning what they do. Not everyone appreciates teachers, and not all students are perfect. Some people have shattered dreams...they feel like they will never amount to as much as they could have and they feel like their life isn't what it could have been. Not everyone hates teaching, but it is a very hard job. There are so many people who insult professional teachers/degree programs and look down on the job...and they end up selling a course or running a business or having kids. All these activities require good teaching, actually. And that is the irony.
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I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
| 0 | 6,992 | 7.148148 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6xd4z
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iv6ylgx
| 1,667,677,668 | 1,667,678,193 | 24 | 193 |
One of the reasons, at least in Britain/the UK, is that often it's impossible to fulfill your teaching duties and to do the expected research and grant-application without overworking/working beyond your contractual hours. Most academics work long hours, in evenings and during weekends. And there is no financial incentive associated with that, this is just in order to keep your job... Unfortunately, many academics contribute to this culture of overwork, bragging, for instance, on twitter about how they managed to finish two papers and one grant application in a weekend. Someone might counter-argue that there are other professions where working long hours is the norm, but often in these other professions the salaries are much higher than the salaries of academics.
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I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
| 0 | 525 | 8.041667 |
yn00te
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askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6ylgx
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iv6b31u
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,668,498 | 193 | 21 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
|
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
| 1 | 9,695 | 9.190476 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6ylgx
|
iv6vkkl
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,676,914 | 193 | 17 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
|
> I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I'd expect that the top comment would more often be "the odds of landing a stable and good job are very not in your favour", then followed by the comment you give as to why a "good" job still isn't that great. > I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? This ties in to my previous comment, because I'm quite certain that the hiring numbers in CS careers are far far *far* healthier than those in academia, which makes it almost a disservice to encourage anyone into academia without presenting them many warnings and caveats. It is kind of the difference between encouraging someone to become a nurse versus a professional athlete, in terms of the difference in magnitude of the number of jobs available.
| 1 | 1,279 | 11.352941 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6ylgx
|
iv6xn8w
| 1,667,678,193 | 1,667,677,790 | 193 | 15 |
I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
|
It's less about hating the job and more that it's an industry that doesn't treat it's workers well. As a software engineer, you may not love your job but you do have reasonable compensation, job security, benefits. If you're in a decent sized city, you can probably settle down without moving cross country every few years. There are fairly clear job expectations and division of labor. As an academic, you're expect to do multiple distinct jobs (manager, teacher, researcher) for low pay with no job security and the expectation of frequent moves until you're ~15 years into your career (between 5 years of grad school, however long of a post doc, & 5 years pre tenure).
| 1 | 403 | 12.866667 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6xwuf
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iv6ylgx
| 1,667,677,902 | 1,667,678,193 | 12 | 193 |
Everybody starts out idealistic: "I will be a great professor, do topnotch research, and win maybe the Nobel prize". After a few years, it become clear that they have to do menial things like admin, their research isn't cutting through and they are not famous. You can't really get a promotion in academia so you are stuck on a plateau after a while. I think that makes people somewhat cynical.
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I think the core of this is that PhD students have an inaccurate view of what their work life will be like. Often they went to elite colleges for their undergrads and grad studies and they expect to have a career like that of the professors they studied under. Instead, they often struggle to get hired ANYWHERE or end up at a lower-tier school and are then unhappy about the discrepancy between their career expectations and reality. The bitterness is probably a result of the years they dedicated to accomplishing something that isn't what they'd hoped it would be.
| 0 | 291 | 16.083333 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6bikh
|
iv6b31u
| 1,667,668,668 | 1,667,668,498 | 146 | 21 |
Many hate the path to getting tenure. It is terrible. You have no job security, make little money, have to move constantly, and there is a lot of luck involved in whether you eventually get tenure or not.
|
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
| 1 | 170 | 6.952381 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv6bp3v
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,668,741 | 144 | 57 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
In academia you tend to sit on temporary contracts and projects, and you always have this "carrot" in front of you that the next publication, or next grant application will booster your career if you work hard enough (meaning working late or on weekends), but it seldom does and people become frustrated. In industry you can switch positions more easily and permanent positions are available. Your career is less dependant on lucky observations and luck with publishing.
| 1 | 11,820 | 2.526316 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv6gq9t
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,670,765 | 144 | 37 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
Aside from the horrible working conditions + nepotism described by others here, you are also surrounded by unhinged sociopaths almost everywhere. Ive spent almost a decade in academia and in no other job was I exposed to such an absurd amount of assholes. It is really not worth it in the long run. You either become an asshole yourself or end up with nothing well into your 30s.
| 1 | 9,796 | 3.891892 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6pisj
|
iv748xs
| 1,667,674,365 | 1,667,680,561 | 34 | 144 |
As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
|
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
| 0 | 6,196 | 4.235294 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv6fhwl
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,670,266 | 144 | 32 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
Academia lures very smart people with promises they can research what they love and be recognized for their achievements. But day to day, even the good academic jobs are mostly teaching and administration. The more precarious positions are all that stuff for even less pay. EDIT: grammar.
| 1 | 10,295 | 4.5 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6gxmy
|
iv748xs
| 1,667,670,846 | 1,667,680,561 | 31 | 144 |
To be fair, lots of people complain about their job, their boss, etc. That said, yea, seems common in academia. I think some part of it is similar to how we view work in general. People tend to simultaneously loathe and take pride in how “busy” and or exhausted they are. As if you aren’t working hard enough if you aren’t balls-to-the-wall working or burn out. I think the amount of education also contribute to academics constantly loathing in self-pity.
|
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
| 0 | 9,715 | 4.645161 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv6hsxu
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,671,201 | 144 | 27 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
The ones who are most bitter have probably experienced a lot of pain and disappointment concerning what they do. Not everyone appreciates teachers, and not all students are perfect. Some people have shattered dreams...they feel like they will never amount to as much as they could have and they feel like their life isn't what it could have been. Not everyone hates teaching, but it is a very hard job. There are so many people who insult professional teachers/degree programs and look down on the job...and they end up selling a course or running a business or having kids. All these activities require good teaching, actually. And that is the irony.
| 1 | 9,360 | 5.333333 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv6xd4z
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,677,668 | 144 | 24 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
One of the reasons, at least in Britain/the UK, is that often it's impossible to fulfill your teaching duties and to do the expected research and grant-application without overworking/working beyond your contractual hours. Most academics work long hours, in evenings and during weekends. And there is no financial incentive associated with that, this is just in order to keep your job... Unfortunately, many academics contribute to this culture of overwork, bragging, for instance, on twitter about how they managed to finish two papers and one grant application in a weekend. Someone might counter-argue that there are other professions where working long hours is the norm, but often in these other professions the salaries are much higher than the salaries of academics.
| 1 | 2,893 | 6 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6b31u
|
iv748xs
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,680,561 | 21 | 144 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
| 0 | 12,063 | 6.857143 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6vkkl
|
iv748xs
| 1,667,676,914 | 1,667,680,561 | 17 | 144 |
> I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I'd expect that the top comment would more often be "the odds of landing a stable and good job are very not in your favour", then followed by the comment you give as to why a "good" job still isn't that great. > I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? This ties in to my previous comment, because I'm quite certain that the hiring numbers in CS careers are far far *far* healthier than those in academia, which makes it almost a disservice to encourage anyone into academia without presenting them many warnings and caveats. It is kind of the difference between encouraging someone to become a nurse versus a professional athlete, in terms of the difference in magnitude of the number of jobs available.
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Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
| 0 | 3,647 | 8.470588 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6xn8w
|
iv748xs
| 1,667,677,790 | 1,667,680,561 | 15 | 144 |
It's less about hating the job and more that it's an industry that doesn't treat it's workers well. As a software engineer, you may not love your job but you do have reasonable compensation, job security, benefits. If you're in a decent sized city, you can probably settle down without moving cross country every few years. There are fairly clear job expectations and division of labor. As an academic, you're expect to do multiple distinct jobs (manager, teacher, researcher) for low pay with no job security and the expectation of frequent moves until you're ~15 years into your career (between 5 years of grad school, however long of a post doc, & 5 years pre tenure).
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Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
| 0 | 2,771 | 9.6 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv6xwuf
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,677,902 | 144 | 12 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
Everybody starts out idealistic: "I will be a great professor, do topnotch research, and win maybe the Nobel prize". After a few years, it become clear that they have to do menial things like admin, their research isn't cutting through and they are not famous. You can't really get a promotion in academia so you are stuck on a plateau after a while. I think that makes people somewhat cynical.
| 1 | 2,659 | 12 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv748xs
|
iv70kjk
| 1,667,680,561 | 1,667,679,031 | 144 | 10 |
Academics are usually idealists. They love doing research, they love open discussions, they want to help improve society for all of us - based on empiricism. That idealism is massively taken advantage of by a system paying them almost nothing, giving them zero job security, forcing them into artificial competition and exploiting them to review for free so the system doesn't collapse. Any academic than can code a bit, knows statistics or is in STEM could easily make 2-3x in the industry if they were okay with just doing a 9-5 for a soulless corporation. And in the end, these people are usually happier than the academics grinding 60h weeks for 40k/year for the vague chance of one day being a tenured professor.
|
Consider also that a) communities like this have a heavy North American bias and academic working conditions vary a lot globally (advice here based on US academia is often flat-out incorrect for much of the world) and b) the ones who are pretty happy with their jobs are probably spending their spare time on hobbies and their families, not complaining about academia on Reddit.
| 1 | 1,530 | 14.4 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7beuz
|
iv6bp3v
| 1,667,683,627 | 1,667,668,741 | 101 | 57 |
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
|
In academia you tend to sit on temporary contracts and projects, and you always have this "carrot" in front of you that the next publication, or next grant application will booster your career if you work hard enough (meaning working late or on weekends), but it seldom does and people become frustrated. In industry you can switch positions more easily and permanent positions are available. Your career is less dependant on lucky observations and luck with publishing.
| 1 | 14,886 | 1.77193 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6gq9t
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,670,765 | 1,667,683,627 | 37 | 101 |
Aside from the horrible working conditions + nepotism described by others here, you are also surrounded by unhinged sociopaths almost everywhere. Ive spent almost a decade in academia and in no other job was I exposed to such an absurd amount of assholes. It is really not worth it in the long run. You either become an asshole yourself or end up with nothing well into your 30s.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 12,862 | 2.72973 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6pisj
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,674,365 | 1,667,683,627 | 34 | 101 |
As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 9,262 | 2.970588 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7beuz
|
iv6fhwl
| 1,667,683,627 | 1,667,670,266 | 101 | 32 |
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
|
Academia lures very smart people with promises they can research what they love and be recognized for their achievements. But day to day, even the good academic jobs are mostly teaching and administration. The more precarious positions are all that stuff for even less pay. EDIT: grammar.
| 1 | 13,361 | 3.15625 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv7beuz
|
iv6gxmy
| 1,667,683,627 | 1,667,670,846 | 101 | 31 |
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
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To be fair, lots of people complain about their job, their boss, etc. That said, yea, seems common in academia. I think some part of it is similar to how we view work in general. People tend to simultaneously loathe and take pride in how “busy” and or exhausted they are. As if you aren’t working hard enough if you aren’t balls-to-the-wall working or burn out. I think the amount of education also contribute to academics constantly loathing in self-pity.
| 1 | 12,781 | 3.258065 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7beuz
|
iv6hsxu
| 1,667,683,627 | 1,667,671,201 | 101 | 27 |
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
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The ones who are most bitter have probably experienced a lot of pain and disappointment concerning what they do. Not everyone appreciates teachers, and not all students are perfect. Some people have shattered dreams...they feel like they will never amount to as much as they could have and they feel like their life isn't what it could have been. Not everyone hates teaching, but it is a very hard job. There are so many people who insult professional teachers/degree programs and look down on the job...and they end up selling a course or running a business or having kids. All these activities require good teaching, actually. And that is the irony.
| 1 | 12,426 | 3.740741 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7beuz
|
iv6xd4z
| 1,667,683,627 | 1,667,677,668 | 101 | 24 |
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
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One of the reasons, at least in Britain/the UK, is that often it's impossible to fulfill your teaching duties and to do the expected research and grant-application without overworking/working beyond your contractual hours. Most academics work long hours, in evenings and during weekends. And there is no financial incentive associated with that, this is just in order to keep your job... Unfortunately, many academics contribute to this culture of overwork, bragging, for instance, on twitter about how they managed to finish two papers and one grant application in a weekend. Someone might counter-argue that there are other professions where working long hours is the norm, but often in these other professions the salaries are much higher than the salaries of academics.
| 1 | 5,959 | 4.208333 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6b31u
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,683,627 | 21 | 101 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 15,129 | 4.809524 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6vkkl
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,676,914 | 1,667,683,627 | 17 | 101 |
> I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I'd expect that the top comment would more often be "the odds of landing a stable and good job are very not in your favour", then followed by the comment you give as to why a "good" job still isn't that great. > I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? This ties in to my previous comment, because I'm quite certain that the hiring numbers in CS careers are far far *far* healthier than those in academia, which makes it almost a disservice to encourage anyone into academia without presenting them many warnings and caveats. It is kind of the difference between encouraging someone to become a nurse versus a professional athlete, in terms of the difference in magnitude of the number of jobs available.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 6,713 | 5.941176 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7beuz
|
iv6xn8w
| 1,667,683,627 | 1,667,677,790 | 101 | 15 |
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
|
It's less about hating the job and more that it's an industry that doesn't treat it's workers well. As a software engineer, you may not love your job but you do have reasonable compensation, job security, benefits. If you're in a decent sized city, you can probably settle down without moving cross country every few years. There are fairly clear job expectations and division of labor. As an academic, you're expect to do multiple distinct jobs (manager, teacher, researcher) for low pay with no job security and the expectation of frequent moves until you're ~15 years into your career (between 5 years of grad school, however long of a post doc, & 5 years pre tenure).
| 1 | 5,837 | 6.733333 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6xwuf
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,677,902 | 1,667,683,627 | 12 | 101 |
Everybody starts out idealistic: "I will be a great professor, do topnotch research, and win maybe the Nobel prize". After a few years, it become clear that they have to do menial things like admin, their research isn't cutting through and they are not famous. You can't really get a promotion in academia so you are stuck on a plateau after a while. I think that makes people somewhat cynical.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 5,725 | 8.416667 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv70kjk
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,679,031 | 1,667,683,627 | 10 | 101 |
Consider also that a) communities like this have a heavy North American bias and academic working conditions vary a lot globally (advice here based on US academia is often flat-out incorrect for much of the world) and b) the ones who are pretty happy with their jobs are probably spending their spare time on hobbies and their families, not complaining about academia on Reddit.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 4,596 | 10.1 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7bd6y
|
iv7beuz
| 1,667,683,607 | 1,667,683,627 | 8 | 101 |
I don’t know, man. Is this the case? I’m tenured at an R1, and I think my job is pretty sweet. I get to choose what I want to research, what classes I want to teach, and when I want to teach them. I never have to worry about missing my kids’ events because the job is so flexible. I get paid six figures, and get to travel to cool places on my university’s dime. The administrative work sucks, but that’s true in most professions.
|
I've been in academia as a student or professor since the mid-1980s. We are in the midst of the worse enrollment crisis, financial crisis, operational crisis, and employee morale crisis in higher ed that I've seen in my lifetime. Of course people are going to be cranky about it. Because they are seeing: * big enrollment drops at many schools (25% from peak at mine, some are down 50%) * attacks on most non-STEM majors from politicians and media * financial crisis impacting campus operations * no meaningful raises in several years (COVID plus inflation) * COVID impacts/changes/losses * the rapid decline in quality of high school graduates * the ongoing explosion of administrative hires * the slow but apparently inexorable replacement of tenure-track faculty with contingent and part-time labor * the ascension of the neoliberal business model in higher ed management * the continued (and indefensible) massive oversupply of Ph.D. *production* in many fields vs any sort of wild fantasy related to *demand* * And of course the often forced risk to personal health many faculty faced in 2020-2022+ as their campus leaders required them to teach in person but refused to require students to be vaccinated, wear masks, report illness, etc. There's more, but you get the picture OP. These are dark times in American higher ed in particular, the worse since the mid-1970s for sure. Most of us are not in a Happy Place right now so we complain about it. That doesn't mean we hate our jobs-- my colleagues and I still care about our students, get along great with one another, and enjoy the good parts of teaching/research and sometimes even service. But we also all remember that things were generally a lot better ten years ago, and better still 20 years ago.
| 0 | 20 | 12.625 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6b31u
|
iv6bp3v
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,668,741 | 21 | 57 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
In academia you tend to sit on temporary contracts and projects, and you always have this "carrot" in front of you that the next publication, or next grant application will booster your career if you work hard enough (meaning working late or on weekends), but it seldom does and people become frustrated. In industry you can switch positions more easily and permanent positions are available. Your career is less dependant on lucky observations and luck with publishing.
| 0 | 243 | 2.714286 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6fhwl
|
iv6gq9t
| 1,667,670,266 | 1,667,670,765 | 32 | 37 |
Academia lures very smart people with promises they can research what they love and be recognized for their achievements. But day to day, even the good academic jobs are mostly teaching and administration. The more precarious positions are all that stuff for even less pay. EDIT: grammar.
|
Aside from the horrible working conditions + nepotism described by others here, you are also surrounded by unhinged sociopaths almost everywhere. Ive spent almost a decade in academia and in no other job was I exposed to such an absurd amount of assholes. It is really not worth it in the long run. You either become an asshole yourself or end up with nothing well into your 30s.
| 0 | 499 | 1.15625 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6b31u
|
iv6gq9t
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,670,765 | 21 | 37 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
Aside from the horrible working conditions + nepotism described by others here, you are also surrounded by unhinged sociopaths almost everywhere. Ive spent almost a decade in academia and in no other job was I exposed to such an absurd amount of assholes. It is really not worth it in the long run. You either become an asshole yourself or end up with nothing well into your 30s.
| 0 | 2,267 | 1.761905 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6fhwl
|
iv6pisj
| 1,667,670,266 | 1,667,674,365 | 32 | 34 |
Academia lures very smart people with promises they can research what they love and be recognized for their achievements. But day to day, even the good academic jobs are mostly teaching and administration. The more precarious positions are all that stuff for even less pay. EDIT: grammar.
|
As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
| 0 | 4,099 | 1.0625 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6pisj
|
iv6gxmy
| 1,667,674,365 | 1,667,670,846 | 34 | 31 |
As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
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To be fair, lots of people complain about their job, their boss, etc. That said, yea, seems common in academia. I think some part of it is similar to how we view work in general. People tend to simultaneously loathe and take pride in how “busy” and or exhausted they are. As if you aren’t working hard enough if you aren’t balls-to-the-wall working or burn out. I think the amount of education also contribute to academics constantly loathing in self-pity.
| 1 | 3,519 | 1.096774 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6hsxu
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iv6pisj
| 1,667,671,201 | 1,667,674,365 | 27 | 34 |
The ones who are most bitter have probably experienced a lot of pain and disappointment concerning what they do. Not everyone appreciates teachers, and not all students are perfect. Some people have shattered dreams...they feel like they will never amount to as much as they could have and they feel like their life isn't what it could have been. Not everyone hates teaching, but it is a very hard job. There are so many people who insult professional teachers/degree programs and look down on the job...and they end up selling a course or running a business or having kids. All these activities require good teaching, actually. And that is the irony.
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As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
| 0 | 3,164 | 1.259259 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6pisj
|
iv6b31u
| 1,667,674,365 | 1,667,668,498 | 34 | 21 |
As a fellow Computer scientist I can tell you it's kinda depressing to be always short of money while everyone else is making enough to retire at 35. I love research I really do, but I love good food and traveling the world. If you can be an academic + a side job, money is not a big problem but you may burn out quickly.
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One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
| 1 | 5,867 | 1.619048 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6fhwl
|
iv6b31u
| 1,667,670,266 | 1,667,668,498 | 32 | 21 |
Academia lures very smart people with promises they can research what they love and be recognized for their achievements. But day to day, even the good academic jobs are mostly teaching and administration. The more precarious positions are all that stuff for even less pay. EDIT: grammar.
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One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
| 1 | 1,768 | 1.52381 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6gxmy
|
iv6b31u
| 1,667,670,846 | 1,667,668,498 | 31 | 21 |
To be fair, lots of people complain about their job, their boss, etc. That said, yea, seems common in academia. I think some part of it is similar to how we view work in general. People tend to simultaneously loathe and take pride in how “busy” and or exhausted they are. As if you aren’t working hard enough if you aren’t balls-to-the-wall working or burn out. I think the amount of education also contribute to academics constantly loathing in self-pity.
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One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
| 1 | 2,348 | 1.47619 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6hsxu
|
iv6b31u
| 1,667,671,201 | 1,667,668,498 | 27 | 21 |
The ones who are most bitter have probably experienced a lot of pain and disappointment concerning what they do. Not everyone appreciates teachers, and not all students are perfect. Some people have shattered dreams...they feel like they will never amount to as much as they could have and they feel like their life isn't what it could have been. Not everyone hates teaching, but it is a very hard job. There are so many people who insult professional teachers/degree programs and look down on the job...and they end up selling a course or running a business or having kids. All these activities require good teaching, actually. And that is the irony.
|
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
| 1 | 2,703 | 1.285714 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv6b31u
|
iv6xd4z
| 1,667,668,498 | 1,667,677,668 | 21 | 24 |
One of my professors said that she loves teaching and working with students but doesn't like all of the meetings that go with it.
|
One of the reasons, at least in Britain/the UK, is that often it's impossible to fulfill your teaching duties and to do the expected research and grant-application without overworking/working beyond your contractual hours. Most academics work long hours, in evenings and during weekends. And there is no financial incentive associated with that, this is just in order to keep your job... Unfortunately, many academics contribute to this culture of overwork, bragging, for instance, on twitter about how they managed to finish two papers and one grant application in a weekend. Someone might counter-argue that there are other professions where working long hours is the norm, but often in these other professions the salaries are much higher than the salaries of academics.
| 0 | 9,170 | 1.142857 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv6vkkl
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iv6xd4z
| 1,667,676,914 | 1,667,677,668 | 17 | 24 |
> I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I'd expect that the top comment would more often be "the odds of landing a stable and good job are very not in your favour", then followed by the comment you give as to why a "good" job still isn't that great. > I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? This ties in to my previous comment, because I'm quite certain that the hiring numbers in CS careers are far far *far* healthier than those in academia, which makes it almost a disservice to encourage anyone into academia without presenting them many warnings and caveats. It is kind of the difference between encouraging someone to become a nurse versus a professional athlete, in terms of the difference in magnitude of the number of jobs available.
|
One of the reasons, at least in Britain/the UK, is that often it's impossible to fulfill your teaching duties and to do the expected research and grant-application without overworking/working beyond your contractual hours. Most academics work long hours, in evenings and during weekends. And there is no financial incentive associated with that, this is just in order to keep your job... Unfortunately, many academics contribute to this culture of overwork, bragging, for instance, on twitter about how they managed to finish two papers and one grant application in a weekend. Someone might counter-argue that there are other professions where working long hours is the norm, but often in these other professions the salaries are much higher than the salaries of academics.
| 0 | 754 | 1.411765 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7kvat
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iv6vkkl
| 1,667,687,807 | 1,667,676,914 | 19 | 17 |
I would argue with the premise of this question. Academics LOVE their profession. What we hate is the fact that institutions take advantage of that fact and put borderline abusive policies and expectations into place knowing we will keep working in shitty conditions because of how much we love our work.
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> I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I'd expect that the top comment would more often be "the odds of landing a stable and good job are very not in your favour", then followed by the comment you give as to why a "good" job still isn't that great. > I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? This ties in to my previous comment, because I'm quite certain that the hiring numbers in CS careers are far far *far* healthier than those in academia, which makes it almost a disservice to encourage anyone into academia without presenting them many warnings and caveats. It is kind of the difference between encouraging someone to become a nurse versus a professional athlete, in terms of the difference in magnitude of the number of jobs available.
| 1 | 10,893 | 1.117647 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7kvat
|
iv6xn8w
| 1,667,687,807 | 1,667,677,790 | 19 | 15 |
I would argue with the premise of this question. Academics LOVE their profession. What we hate is the fact that institutions take advantage of that fact and put borderline abusive policies and expectations into place knowing we will keep working in shitty conditions because of how much we love our work.
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It's less about hating the job and more that it's an industry that doesn't treat it's workers well. As a software engineer, you may not love your job but you do have reasonable compensation, job security, benefits. If you're in a decent sized city, you can probably settle down without moving cross country every few years. There are fairly clear job expectations and division of labor. As an academic, you're expect to do multiple distinct jobs (manager, teacher, researcher) for low pay with no job security and the expectation of frequent moves until you're ~15 years into your career (between 5 years of grad school, however long of a post doc, & 5 years pre tenure).
| 1 | 10,017 | 1.266667 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv7kvat
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iv6xwuf
| 1,667,687,807 | 1,667,677,902 | 19 | 12 |
I would argue with the premise of this question. Academics LOVE their profession. What we hate is the fact that institutions take advantage of that fact and put borderline abusive policies and expectations into place knowing we will keep working in shitty conditions because of how much we love our work.
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Everybody starts out idealistic: "I will be a great professor, do topnotch research, and win maybe the Nobel prize". After a few years, it become clear that they have to do menial things like admin, their research isn't cutting through and they are not famous. You can't really get a promotion in academia so you are stuck on a plateau after a while. I think that makes people somewhat cynical.
| 1 | 9,905 | 1.583333 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7g831
|
iv7kvat
| 1,667,685,741 | 1,667,687,807 | 12 | 19 |
Think about it like Google reviews. People are more compelled to write a bad review than a good one.
|
I would argue with the premise of this question. Academics LOVE their profession. What we hate is the fact that institutions take advantage of that fact and put borderline abusive policies and expectations into place knowing we will keep working in shitty conditions because of how much we love our work.
| 0 | 2,066 | 1.583333 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv70kjk
|
iv7kvat
| 1,667,679,031 | 1,667,687,807 | 10 | 19 |
Consider also that a) communities like this have a heavy North American bias and academic working conditions vary a lot globally (advice here based on US academia is often flat-out incorrect for much of the world) and b) the ones who are pretty happy with their jobs are probably spending their spare time on hobbies and their families, not complaining about academia on Reddit.
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I would argue with the premise of this question. Academics LOVE their profession. What we hate is the fact that institutions take advantage of that fact and put borderline abusive policies and expectations into place knowing we will keep working in shitty conditions because of how much we love our work.
| 0 | 8,776 | 1.9 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7bd6y
|
iv7kvat
| 1,667,683,607 | 1,667,687,807 | 8 | 19 |
I don’t know, man. Is this the case? I’m tenured at an R1, and I think my job is pretty sweet. I get to choose what I want to research, what classes I want to teach, and when I want to teach them. I never have to worry about missing my kids’ events because the job is so flexible. I get paid six figures, and get to travel to cool places on my university’s dime. The administrative work sucks, but that’s true in most professions.
|
I would argue with the premise of this question. Academics LOVE their profession. What we hate is the fact that institutions take advantage of that fact and put borderline abusive policies and expectations into place knowing we will keep working in shitty conditions because of how much we love our work.
| 0 | 4,200 | 2.375 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7g831
|
iv70kjk
| 1,667,685,741 | 1,667,679,031 | 12 | 10 |
Think about it like Google reviews. People are more compelled to write a bad review than a good one.
|
Consider also that a) communities like this have a heavy North American bias and academic working conditions vary a lot globally (advice here based on US academia is often flat-out incorrect for much of the world) and b) the ones who are pretty happy with their jobs are probably spending their spare time on hobbies and their families, not complaining about academia on Reddit.
| 1 | 6,710 | 1.2 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
|
iv7bd6y
|
iv7g831
| 1,667,683,607 | 1,667,685,741 | 8 | 12 |
I don’t know, man. Is this the case? I’m tenured at an R1, and I think my job is pretty sweet. I get to choose what I want to research, what classes I want to teach, and when I want to teach them. I never have to worry about missing my kids’ events because the job is so flexible. I get paid six figures, and get to travel to cool places on my university’s dime. The administrative work sucks, but that’s true in most professions.
|
Think about it like Google reviews. People are more compelled to write a bad review than a good one.
| 0 | 2,134 | 1.5 |
yn00te
|
askacademia_train
| 0.94 |
Why do academics seem to loath their profession? This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've observed there seems to be an above average dislike for ones profession among academics. Most times (I'd say 95%) I ask a question about future career planning to be an academic, the top comment is "Get a job that isn't being an academic - we all hate it here so you probably will as well". I didn't enjoy my time as a software engineer but I didn't go around r/CScareers telling everyone to not aspire to it so what gives? Can anyone explain this?
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iv83jhf
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iv7bd6y
| 1,667,695,971 | 1,667,683,607 | 10 | 8 |
First, off, I myself love love love my career. (Historian) Most importantly, your sample set is: 1) The Internet (namely Reddit) The Internet is full of angry, bitter, lonely, isolated people with axes to grind. The people who love their job are *not on the internet.* They are thriving instead, living life in the real world. So, why am *I* here, you ask? (since I say I love my job...) .... procrastination. fatal flaw. I'm avoiding doing what I need to be doing.
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I don’t know, man. Is this the case? I’m tenured at an R1, and I think my job is pretty sweet. I get to choose what I want to research, what classes I want to teach, and when I want to teach them. I never have to worry about missing my kids’ events because the job is so flexible. I get paid six figures, and get to travel to cool places on my university’s dime. The administrative work sucks, but that’s true in most professions.
| 1 | 12,364 | 1.25 |
mpfify
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
My advisor was sexually inappropriate - how can I get around a letter of recommendation from him for PhD applications? Background: I finished my undergraduate a few years ago. Research was my passion, but this burned me out and I've been too afraid to go back. I'm also not in the US. Long story short, my advisor was a creep to me, I don't want to elaborate in case he's on this subreddit. I know he uses Reddit a lot. I didn't really work with anyone else in the department, and I have no interest in reporting it - it's well known, my department doesn't care. I also don't want to bring this up in a new application, I don't want to seem like I'm slandering someone - and frankly, it's probably irrational, but I'd feel unprofessional talking about it. I'm finally in a place where I want to apply for my PhD, but I don't know how to explain the fact I won't have a letter of reference from the person I did my undergraduate thesis with. I honestly don't even know who else I can ask for a letter from - it's been so long since I left that I don't think any professors would remember me. Does anyone have any idea how I can frame this without it coming off as unprofessional, or like *I* did something to sour the relationship? ​ Thanks Reddit.
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gua0jov
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gua7q6i
| 1,618,249,387 | 1,618,252,511 | 7 | 8 |
It might help (if you can, I understand if you don't) to say what kind of field (like "social sciences") and what general part of the world is concerned. I don't think you need to bring this up in an application, but my impression is that things have changed *a lot* in the last 20, even 10 years. 10 years ago, at least in my old department, the default position -- even for people who were otherwise concerned etc. and disliked the offender intensely -- was to sweep it under the rug and move on. Not that they don't need to change more. But I think that there are a lot of people who would be sympathetic, and given that it's an open secret in your old department, some people at other departments probably know about the offender as well. Finally, it can't hurt to ask other professors / teaching assistants / faculty (I don't know where you are, what the structure of the dept. is) if they would be willing to write for you. I think it is fine to have letters from people who don't know you so well but have taken the time to re-read your previous work and maybe something else you have done since then (maybe a sample for your new applications). I hope that some of those people will understand that it is their responsibility and part of their jobs to support good students who want to go one. When we do graduate applications here we don't worry too much about who is writing the letters. Best of luck.
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(a) I'm sorry. That is terrible and incredibly inappropriate and wrong. (b) I would request three letters from faculty that know you best beyond the POS faculty member. I'd give them a few weeks notice, full info on your career goals/work, etc., and then build a really, really excellent application letter/all that jazz. I'd think strategically about those letters. Think about what each faculty member could emphasize. When a student of mine asks for letters. I ask them to give me as much detail as possible, what they want to me to emphasize, etc. Best of luck to you and take care
| 0 | 3,124 | 1.142857 |
mpfify
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askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
My advisor was sexually inappropriate - how can I get around a letter of recommendation from him for PhD applications? Background: I finished my undergraduate a few years ago. Research was my passion, but this burned me out and I've been too afraid to go back. I'm also not in the US. Long story short, my advisor was a creep to me, I don't want to elaborate in case he's on this subreddit. I know he uses Reddit a lot. I didn't really work with anyone else in the department, and I have no interest in reporting it - it's well known, my department doesn't care. I also don't want to bring this up in a new application, I don't want to seem like I'm slandering someone - and frankly, it's probably irrational, but I'd feel unprofessional talking about it. I'm finally in a place where I want to apply for my PhD, but I don't know how to explain the fact I won't have a letter of reference from the person I did my undergraduate thesis with. I honestly don't even know who else I can ask for a letter from - it's been so long since I left that I don't think any professors would remember me. Does anyone have any idea how I can frame this without it coming off as unprofessional, or like *I* did something to sour the relationship? ​ Thanks Reddit.
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gua7q6i
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gua3i0u
| 1,618,252,511 | 1,618,250,673 | 8 | 3 |
(a) I'm sorry. That is terrible and incredibly inappropriate and wrong. (b) I would request three letters from faculty that know you best beyond the POS faculty member. I'd give them a few weeks notice, full info on your career goals/work, etc., and then build a really, really excellent application letter/all that jazz. I'd think strategically about those letters. Think about what each faculty member could emphasize. When a student of mine asks for letters. I ask them to give me as much detail as possible, what they want to me to emphasize, etc. Best of luck to you and take care
|
I agree with all the other comments but just want to add if you have been working in the same field that you wabt to go into you can often get a letter of rec from a boss or supervisor from that job. Especially if they have an advanced degree. I wouldn't have it be your only leter of rec but if you need multiple it can be one of them easy.
| 1 | 1,838 | 2.666667 |
mpfify
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
My advisor was sexually inappropriate - how can I get around a letter of recommendation from him for PhD applications? Background: I finished my undergraduate a few years ago. Research was my passion, but this burned me out and I've been too afraid to go back. I'm also not in the US. Long story short, my advisor was a creep to me, I don't want to elaborate in case he's on this subreddit. I know he uses Reddit a lot. I didn't really work with anyone else in the department, and I have no interest in reporting it - it's well known, my department doesn't care. I also don't want to bring this up in a new application, I don't want to seem like I'm slandering someone - and frankly, it's probably irrational, but I'd feel unprofessional talking about it. I'm finally in a place where I want to apply for my PhD, but I don't know how to explain the fact I won't have a letter of reference from the person I did my undergraduate thesis with. I honestly don't even know who else I can ask for a letter from - it's been so long since I left that I don't think any professors would remember me. Does anyone have any idea how I can frame this without it coming off as unprofessional, or like *I* did something to sour the relationship? ​ Thanks Reddit.
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guahq2v
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gua9e4c
| 1,618,256,941 | 1,618,253,251 | 3 | 2 |
If you have the three recommendation letters without him, then don't worry about it. And if you get pressed on it for some reason, you can be honest without telling the whole truth. Just say that you were uncomfortable asking or that the application you submitted is the best version. You just want to let people that aren't ass holes define who you are to these prospective programs, and your app is better because of it.
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Get letters from your current employer. Did you have a personal tutor while you were at uni? Reach out to them about a letter if you did. I would honestly find it weird if your "main" letter was from your supervisor if you left a few years ago. I've been in the position of being asked to write letters for students I haven't interacted with for a couple of years and i tend to say no. I can't remember them that well so it would be a bad (not nasty, just not much in it) letter ETA: If there's any profs who you're comfortable with who know the situation ask if they'd mention why you don't have a ref from your supervisor. I've had applicants do that before - it's absolutely fine.
| 1 | 3,690 | 1.5 |
mpfify
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askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
My advisor was sexually inappropriate - how can I get around a letter of recommendation from him for PhD applications? Background: I finished my undergraduate a few years ago. Research was my passion, but this burned me out and I've been too afraid to go back. I'm also not in the US. Long story short, my advisor was a creep to me, I don't want to elaborate in case he's on this subreddit. I know he uses Reddit a lot. I didn't really work with anyone else in the department, and I have no interest in reporting it - it's well known, my department doesn't care. I also don't want to bring this up in a new application, I don't want to seem like I'm slandering someone - and frankly, it's probably irrational, but I'd feel unprofessional talking about it. I'm finally in a place where I want to apply for my PhD, but I don't know how to explain the fact I won't have a letter of reference from the person I did my undergraduate thesis with. I honestly don't even know who else I can ask for a letter from - it's been so long since I left that I don't think any professors would remember me. Does anyone have any idea how I can frame this without it coming off as unprofessional, or like *I* did something to sour the relationship? ​ Thanks Reddit.
|
guahq2v
|
guacspb
| 1,618,256,941 | 1,618,254,768 | 3 | 2 |
If you have the three recommendation letters without him, then don't worry about it. And if you get pressed on it for some reason, you can be honest without telling the whole truth. Just say that you were uncomfortable asking or that the application you submitted is the best version. You just want to let people that aren't ass holes define who you are to these prospective programs, and your app is better because of it.
|
Are you saying this was an 'undergraduate' advisor, not 'masters'? I also wonder if you had published any research results with them. If not, I don't think this is an issue. There are many schools that I know of in which an undergrad advisor either doesn't exist, is meaningless, or is really an administrator and not faculty. I think unless your undergrad program is really well known for having specific advisors, I wouldn't bother mentioning it or thinking to much about it.
| 1 | 2,173 | 1.5 |
mpfify
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
My advisor was sexually inappropriate - how can I get around a letter of recommendation from him for PhD applications? Background: I finished my undergraduate a few years ago. Research was my passion, but this burned me out and I've been too afraid to go back. I'm also not in the US. Long story short, my advisor was a creep to me, I don't want to elaborate in case he's on this subreddit. I know he uses Reddit a lot. I didn't really work with anyone else in the department, and I have no interest in reporting it - it's well known, my department doesn't care. I also don't want to bring this up in a new application, I don't want to seem like I'm slandering someone - and frankly, it's probably irrational, but I'd feel unprofessional talking about it. I'm finally in a place where I want to apply for my PhD, but I don't know how to explain the fact I won't have a letter of reference from the person I did my undergraduate thesis with. I honestly don't even know who else I can ask for a letter from - it's been so long since I left that I don't think any professors would remember me. Does anyone have any idea how I can frame this without it coming off as unprofessional, or like *I* did something to sour the relationship? ​ Thanks Reddit.
|
guahq2v
|
guaexwi
| 1,618,256,941 | 1,618,255,710 | 3 | 2 |
If you have the three recommendation letters without him, then don't worry about it. And if you get pressed on it for some reason, you can be honest without telling the whole truth. Just say that you were uncomfortable asking or that the application you submitted is the best version. You just want to let people that aren't ass holes define who you are to these prospective programs, and your app is better because of it.
|
Do you have a class or module that you really enjoyed and got some good grades for? When I applied for my PhD I was still lacking one reference so I cold emailed one of my lecturers that I remember as being warm and kind-hearted and explained my situation. She answered that while she didn't remember me she would look at my essays from the class and that she would write a note on the basis of this. Best of luck and sucks that you had to go though this.
| 1 | 1,231 | 1.5 |
mpfify
|
askacademia_train
| 0.98 |
My advisor was sexually inappropriate - how can I get around a letter of recommendation from him for PhD applications? Background: I finished my undergraduate a few years ago. Research was my passion, but this burned me out and I've been too afraid to go back. I'm also not in the US. Long story short, my advisor was a creep to me, I don't want to elaborate in case he's on this subreddit. I know he uses Reddit a lot. I didn't really work with anyone else in the department, and I have no interest in reporting it - it's well known, my department doesn't care. I also don't want to bring this up in a new application, I don't want to seem like I'm slandering someone - and frankly, it's probably irrational, but I'd feel unprofessional talking about it. I'm finally in a place where I want to apply for my PhD, but I don't know how to explain the fact I won't have a letter of reference from the person I did my undergraduate thesis with. I honestly don't even know who else I can ask for a letter from - it's been so long since I left that I don't think any professors would remember me. Does anyone have any idea how I can frame this without it coming off as unprofessional, or like *I* did something to sour the relationship? ​ Thanks Reddit.
|
guahgmh
|
guahq2v
| 1,618,256,823 | 1,618,256,941 | 2 | 3 |
You would be surprised how many of us would remember you. I would reach out to any former professors and ask for a recommendation.
|
If you have the three recommendation letters without him, then don't worry about it. And if you get pressed on it for some reason, you can be honest without telling the whole truth. Just say that you were uncomfortable asking or that the application you submitted is the best version. You just want to let people that aren't ass holes define who you are to these prospective programs, and your app is better because of it.
| 0 | 118 | 1.5 |
l8x6rv
|
askacademia_train
| 0.82 |
Why does it seem that students who have a science background or are more science-minded tend to do quite well in arts subjects but not vice versa? I was not getting any luck in getting an answer in r/NoStupidQuestions so I thought this would be relevant here I'm currently both a science and arts student and I have noticed this to be quite true in most cases. Arts student will complain about struggling through a math or science requirement, while science students in arts classes tend to fair better I noticed that institutions think this is the case as well as I also noticed that universities will have courses such as "calculus for the social sciences" or "biology for the arts" which is known to be less rigorous than the main calculus/biology class. On the other hand, I don't commonly see them offer "philosophy for the sciences" or "sociology for engineers". If science students wish to take arts classes, they are expected to enroll in the main class
|
glfj41c
|
glfcwnu
| 1,612,055,983 | 1,612,052,760 | 220 | 212 |
I think part of it is the prerequisite knowledge. For an introductory college humanities class, you need to be able to read, write, and think critically. For even a remedial math class, you need all of the above plus all the math you’ve learned up to that point. Someone who is good at math already has the skills to do well in other fields. They just have to learn domain-specific information. Regardless of your major, everyone will show up to an intro philosophy class with almost no philosophy background. You can’t show up to a calculus class with good critical thinking skills and no math knowledge expecting it to go well. The cumulative nature of math also explains the existence of courses like “calculus for social sciences”. A standard calculus track is teaching you some math you’ll use in your field but also preparing you for more math which is usually the hardest part. If someone doesn’t need more math, they’re better off just learning what they’ll actually need.
|
Science at a high level demands creative thinking and new approaches. Art at a high level doesn't demand scientific methods or calculations. Both science and art are incredibly broad, just kinda working with what youve given.
| 1 | 3,223 | 1.037736 |
l8x6rv
|
askacademia_train
| 0.82 |
Why does it seem that students who have a science background or are more science-minded tend to do quite well in arts subjects but not vice versa? I was not getting any luck in getting an answer in r/NoStupidQuestions so I thought this would be relevant here I'm currently both a science and arts student and I have noticed this to be quite true in most cases. Arts student will complain about struggling through a math or science requirement, while science students in arts classes tend to fair better I noticed that institutions think this is the case as well as I also noticed that universities will have courses such as "calculus for the social sciences" or "biology for the arts" which is known to be less rigorous than the main calculus/biology class. On the other hand, I don't commonly see them offer "philosophy for the sciences" or "sociology for engineers". If science students wish to take arts classes, they are expected to enroll in the main class
|
glfj41c
|
glf5q7m
| 1,612,055,983 | 1,612,049,050 | 220 | 121 |
I think part of it is the prerequisite knowledge. For an introductory college humanities class, you need to be able to read, write, and think critically. For even a remedial math class, you need all of the above plus all the math you’ve learned up to that point. Someone who is good at math already has the skills to do well in other fields. They just have to learn domain-specific information. Regardless of your major, everyone will show up to an intro philosophy class with almost no philosophy background. You can’t show up to a calculus class with good critical thinking skills and no math knowledge expecting it to go well. The cumulative nature of math also explains the existence of courses like “calculus for social sciences”. A standard calculus track is teaching you some math you’ll use in your field but also preparing you for more math which is usually the hardest part. If someone doesn’t need more math, they’re better off just learning what they’ll actually need.
|
humanities students are socialized from a young age to believe they can only be good at one or the other. That, with a combination of poor teaching in K-12, translates to feeling defeated before they start.
| 1 | 6,933 | 1.818182 |
l8x6rv
|
askacademia_train
| 0.82 |
Why does it seem that students who have a science background or are more science-minded tend to do quite well in arts subjects but not vice versa? I was not getting any luck in getting an answer in r/NoStupidQuestions so I thought this would be relevant here I'm currently both a science and arts student and I have noticed this to be quite true in most cases. Arts student will complain about struggling through a math or science requirement, while science students in arts classes tend to fair better I noticed that institutions think this is the case as well as I also noticed that universities will have courses such as "calculus for the social sciences" or "biology for the arts" which is known to be less rigorous than the main calculus/biology class. On the other hand, I don't commonly see them offer "philosophy for the sciences" or "sociology for engineers". If science students wish to take arts classes, they are expected to enroll in the main class
|
glfj41c
|
glfgsjf
| 1,612,055,983 | 1,612,054,754 | 220 | 18 |
I think part of it is the prerequisite knowledge. For an introductory college humanities class, you need to be able to read, write, and think critically. For even a remedial math class, you need all of the above plus all the math you’ve learned up to that point. Someone who is good at math already has the skills to do well in other fields. They just have to learn domain-specific information. Regardless of your major, everyone will show up to an intro philosophy class with almost no philosophy background. You can’t show up to a calculus class with good critical thinking skills and no math knowledge expecting it to go well. The cumulative nature of math also explains the existence of courses like “calculus for social sciences”. A standard calculus track is teaching you some math you’ll use in your field but also preparing you for more math which is usually the hardest part. If someone doesn’t need more math, they’re better off just learning what they’ll actually need.
|
My experience is exactly the opposite, speaking as someone who came from the performing arts into science. The so-called “soft skills” I learned in the arts always seems to be in high demand. Conversely, People with strong sciences suffer in the arts greatly, hence the demand for such classes.
| 1 | 1,229 | 12.222222 |
l8x6rv
|
askacademia_train
| 0.82 |
Why does it seem that students who have a science background or are more science-minded tend to do quite well in arts subjects but not vice versa? I was not getting any luck in getting an answer in r/NoStupidQuestions so I thought this would be relevant here I'm currently both a science and arts student and I have noticed this to be quite true in most cases. Arts student will complain about struggling through a math or science requirement, while science students in arts classes tend to fair better I noticed that institutions think this is the case as well as I also noticed that universities will have courses such as "calculus for the social sciences" or "biology for the arts" which is known to be less rigorous than the main calculus/biology class. On the other hand, I don't commonly see them offer "philosophy for the sciences" or "sociology for engineers". If science students wish to take arts classes, they are expected to enroll in the main class
|
glfht41
|
glfj41c
| 1,612,055,294 | 1,612,055,983 | 10 | 220 |
The real answer? I hate to say it (and I'm certain I'll be downvoted to hell for this), but as a whole, succeeding in science/math disciplines generally requires more hours, study time, and discipline. As a whole, excellent science students cultivate from an early point in their academic journey that struggling/not understanding something is natural, and learn to push through it. With the humanities/arts, many of those students who take sciences courses may not used to that sudden realization that something makes absolutely no sense, and are likely to immediately self-label themselves in those courses as "not good students" even though they are probably highly capable in those fields as well.
|
I think part of it is the prerequisite knowledge. For an introductory college humanities class, you need to be able to read, write, and think critically. For even a remedial math class, you need all of the above plus all the math you’ve learned up to that point. Someone who is good at math already has the skills to do well in other fields. They just have to learn domain-specific information. Regardless of your major, everyone will show up to an intro philosophy class with almost no philosophy background. You can’t show up to a calculus class with good critical thinking skills and no math knowledge expecting it to go well. The cumulative nature of math also explains the existence of courses like “calculus for social sciences”. A standard calculus track is teaching you some math you’ll use in your field but also preparing you for more math which is usually the hardest part. If someone doesn’t need more math, they’re better off just learning what they’ll actually need.
| 0 | 689 | 22 |
l8x6rv
|
askacademia_train
| 0.82 |
Why does it seem that students who have a science background or are more science-minded tend to do quite well in arts subjects but not vice versa? I was not getting any luck in getting an answer in r/NoStupidQuestions so I thought this would be relevant here I'm currently both a science and arts student and I have noticed this to be quite true in most cases. Arts student will complain about struggling through a math or science requirement, while science students in arts classes tend to fair better I noticed that institutions think this is the case as well as I also noticed that universities will have courses such as "calculus for the social sciences" or "biology for the arts" which is known to be less rigorous than the main calculus/biology class. On the other hand, I don't commonly see them offer "philosophy for the sciences" or "sociology for engineers". If science students wish to take arts classes, they are expected to enroll in the main class
|
gleyyab
|
glfj41c
| 1,612,045,682 | 1,612,055,983 | 10 | 220 |
Some of the humanities requires abstract thought that translates into the sciences (and vice versa), but the quantitative/discrete analytical skills doesn’t translate into the humanities??? That’s my guess, but this may not be the case. After having not done any literary analysis for 5yrs between high school and my last semester of college (I’m an engineering student), I definitely struggled in my African American studies class. The teacher taught at a graduate level for an introductory level class, making it even more difficult, but my friends in the humanities didn’t struggle anywhere near as much as I did.
|
I think part of it is the prerequisite knowledge. For an introductory college humanities class, you need to be able to read, write, and think critically. For even a remedial math class, you need all of the above plus all the math you’ve learned up to that point. Someone who is good at math already has the skills to do well in other fields. They just have to learn domain-specific information. Regardless of your major, everyone will show up to an intro philosophy class with almost no philosophy background. You can’t show up to a calculus class with good critical thinking skills and no math knowledge expecting it to go well. The cumulative nature of math also explains the existence of courses like “calculus for social sciences”. A standard calculus track is teaching you some math you’ll use in your field but also preparing you for more math which is usually the hardest part. If someone doesn’t need more math, they’re better off just learning what they’ll actually need.
| 0 | 10,301 | 22 |
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