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The Worst Colleges in America - ksvs
http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/08/worst_colleges_in_america_2008_part_1_01.php
======
gaius
I'm not sure that's a fair criticism of Hamburger U. Isn't it really just a
training facility for McDonald's managers? As far as I know a) it has no
pretensions of being a real college and b) McDonald's is a wildly successful
global corporation, they must be doing _something_ right.
------
irinotecan
I heard from a non-Mormon who went to BYU and said the intolerance there was
so awful, that students would walk up to you and ask, "Are you a Mormon?" and
if you said no, they would just walk away like you didn't even exist.
~~~
sofal
Disclaimer: I don't speak for BYU.
I went to BYU. I'm sorry to hear that your friend had that kind of experience.
I believe that everyone I went to school with would have considered that very
intolerant and rude indeed. I hope that's far from the experience of all
students there who aren't LDS.
Some of the points in the blurb about BYU are accurate, but some are
misleading and false. BYU is a private religious institution, and it therefore
has stricter rules about conduct, appearance, and behavior. These rules,
together called the "Honor Code", are accepted by every student before he/she
attends. These standards are a big part of the reason for the students' desire
to attend BYU. Abstaining from tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and illicit
drugs is already part of the LDS belief system. The idea that students are
required to abstain from flirting is ludicrous, and reveals that the author(s)
must either be ignorant or must have misinterpreted their information. There
is no end to flirting at BYU, unless you define flirting to include crudity
and lewdness. "Sexual comments" was an interesting addition to the list. As a
student at BYU, you are expected to use clean language and adhere to high
moral standards, and so I suppose if by "sexual comments" they mean "vulgar or
crass sexual comments" then this is true. These are all things that may
perhaps be labeled as "intolerant" by some, but which I agree with.
The facial hair rule I think is old-fashioned and unnecessary. I and a lot of
others think that blocking YouTube on the campus network is disgusting and
verging on communism (I can't stand forced web filtering of any kind).
Tunneling worked though, and the CS network didn't block YouTube, so that was
nice.
~~~
KirinDave
A cousin of mine explained the dietary restrictions to me. For the full
effect, please indulge me as I enter a brief bit of real dialogue with the
names stripped:
Me: "So how is BYU, _____? Enjoying your first semester away from home?"
Her: "It's great, I'm having a lot of fun. But I don't think you'd like it
very much."
Me: "Why not? I went to college too, you know. Is it because I'm not mormon?"
Her: "There's that." _pauses to open a can of Coke_ "But you're also required
to abstain from things like tea and coffee. You'd have to give up caffeine,
and I know you'd hate that."
Me: _looking pointedly at her can of coke_ "You have to give up drinks with
caffeine in it?"
Her: _pausing again to drink her soda_ "Yes. The Honor Code says we can't
drink tea, coffee or anything with alcohol in it."
Me: "But soda is okay?"
Her: "Yeah, unless it has, like, drugs in it or something."
I checked the BYU website. Coffee and tea are verboten, Soda is not. I even
found pictures of people drinking coke on campus. Way to go, BYU. Your dietary
restrictions are super-good.
~~~
sofal
It does get pretty silly sometimes. There are only a few things that are
"outlawed", and therefore people think that as long as they abstain from those
substances, they're in total compliance with what their religion expects of
them. The root reason of the dietary restrictions is a principle of respecting
the body and keeping it clean, but people misapply it by interpreting it
verbatim and then gorging themselves on junk food, soda, or anything that
isn't healthy but isn't technically "forbidden".
I think it's a good thing that the church doesn't forcefully regulate which
sodas we can or cannot drink, because that would be controlling and
ridiculous. However, these slightly arbitrary rules can end up encouraging a
group of people who do the minimum required just to remain in good social
status. That will be the case anywhere.
Another example of this is R-rated movies. There was a church leader a long
time ago who at one time at a general conference warned against viewing
R-rated movies. This seems perfectly acceptable, except that it ended up
creating an unwritten rule of sorts among LDS members. The principle is that
we should avoid movies that don't meet the standards we're expected to have,
but it inevitably created a group of people who were perfectly okay with
seeing any movie regardless of the content as long as the MPAA didn't put the
magic 'R' on it.
It's hard to know where to draw the line when you know that some people are
just going to get as close to that line as possible. You just hope that most
people are listening to the underlying principles rather than the base
requirements.
I occasionally drink caffeinated sodas if there isn't anything else available.
I don't consider this to be especially damaging to my health. I think that
whether or not I drink a caffeinated beverage has very little or nothing to do
with what I consider to be my spiritual standing.
~~~
KirinDave
> I occasionally drink caffeinated sodas if there isn't anything else
> available. I don't consider this to be especially damaging to my health. I
> think that whether or not I drink a caffeinated beverage has very little or
> nothing to do with what I consider to be my spiritual standing.
The point of my story wasn't to say, "Haha. Here are these goofy mormonians."
I think you can pick out goofballs from any religion. My point was, "Here is
someone going to college that doesn't seem to be able to read the ingredients
on their soda can." Or more directly, "BYU is a school that seems to be
failing at teaching students how to think and reason."
~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
_My point was, "Here is someone going to college that doesn't seem to be able
to read the ingredients on their soda can."_
Ahahahahahahaha. I knew several folks at BYU who could recite, in milligrams,
the caffeine content of various soft drinks. Caffeinated sodas are left to the
discretion of each individual.
I went to both the University of Wisconsin and BYU, and honestly I much more
prefer the atmosphere of "Dr. Pepper as excess" to "Alcohol to excess."
------
noelchurchill
I'm from San Diego, and somehow I knew I'd find SDSU in this list!
~~~
etal
With half of College Avenue getting rich off cocaine, yeah, they had this
coming. The 17% four-year graduation rate is impressive, too.
I also remember Chico getting epic on Halloween, until the police cracked down
on it a few years ago.
------
fallentimes
Not very empirical but immensely entertaining. The piece on Trump University
alone is worth the read.
------
byrneseyeview
The quality of the quotes goes way up for Drexel and Harvey Mudd -- I wonder
if some alumni on the _Radar_ staff couldn't resist a little articulate
bashing of their alma mater.
~~~
noahlt
I'm not sure Harvey Mudd really deserves to be on that list, though.
~~~
byrneseyeview
It wouldn't show up on a list of worst schools by multiple criteria, but I
think that section of the article is _just_ about the appearance of the
campus.
------
Prrometheus
My state of California, doing America proud.
------
Alex3917
I don't see what the author has against the book Jews Without Money. It's one
of the most important pieces of American literature.
------
mroman
Has anyone heard anything positive or negative about Penn Foster College?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pancreatic Cancer - jamesbkel
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pausch/
======
carbocation
I don't want to get technical when the purpose of this article is clearly an
expression of our collective grief about the loss of Steve Jobs.
Suffice it to say that for academic interest, it's worth becoming familiar
with the difference between endocrine (e.g., islet cell [Jobs]) and exocrine
(e.g. pancreatic adenocarcinoma [Pausch]) cancers because their prognoses
differ wildly.
------
elliottcarlson
The Last Lecture is an inspiring book - Randy Pausch was another great man
that the technology community had lost and I recommend everyone to both watch
the Last lecture and read the book.
The video is viewable here:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo&feature=player_embedded)
(as embedded on the OP's submission)
------
mkopinsky
Also, at about 2:40: "And I have experienced a deathbed conversion. I recently
bought a Macintosh." Interesting given the context in which this article was
posted on HN.
------
jamesbkel
Also, about 5min in is a great example of how to correctly "break the rules".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The New Economics of Semiconductor Manufacturing - prakash
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/6179
======
rms
The Principles of the Toyota Production System (TPS reports):
(1) highly specify activities,
(2) clearly define the transfer of material and information,
(3) keep the pathway for every product and service simple and direct
(4) detect and solve problems where and when they happen, using the scientific method.
There was significant time spent on systems like this in my Industrial
Engineering manufacturing classes. These systems like Six Sigma sound kind of
hokey, but if you rigidly and ruthlessly adhere to good principles, it really
makes manufacturing function better. It's much better than running without a
rigid system.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Death claims singular "them" (2007) - drostie
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005176.html
======
vorg
> the usefulness of they (and its forms them, their, and themselves) in
> situations where the sex of a singular referent is not determinable, known,
> or relevant
I think most would use "themself" in this situation.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The World Is Closer Than Ever to Eradicating Guinea Worm - dpflan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-world-is-closer-than-ever-to-eradicating-guinea-worm/2016/08/20/59d4a752-55bd-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html
======
enraged_camel
Going back to the conversations we've had in the Zika thread[1], why are we OK
with eliminating the Guinea Worm, but not certain species of mosquitoes?
[1][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12322885](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12322885)
A lot of people in that thread made the argument that we shouldn't exterminate
a species without first fully understanding the consequences. Yet we seem to
be doing that here with this parasite, and no one seems to be saying, "but...
think of the ecosystem!"
~~~
maxerickson
One factor is that there is a lot less "we" involved with the Guinea Worm.
I mean, good luck suppressing the knowledge that filtering your drinking water
through a cloth prevents a devastating episode where a 3 foot worm crawls out
of your body.
The proposed programs for eradicating mosquitoes involve things like releasing
millions of dollars of genetically modified mosquitoes and putting larvicides
and insecticides in all known bodies of standing water.
~~~
chr1
Using gene drive doesn't require releasing huge number of modified mosquitos,
and doesn't require larvicides.
------
woliveirajr
> There is no vaccine for Guinea worm, because the parasite induces no immune
> response.
So, eradicating it might lead to the loss of some knowledge, on how it doesn't
trigger some immune response. Specially because if you pull the worm, it
retracts and causes infection, so the mechanism might not be that simple.
Even more: few years ago (2013) [1], it was expected that soon it would have
been eliminated, because dogs had their own species of guinea worm and
wouldn't substitute human beings as the necessarily step in the worm life
cycle.
[1] [http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/24/the-
guine...](http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/24/the-guinea-worm)
------
bertil
I remember a story about a worm that is extracted using a stick: the worm is
presented with the stick, wrap itself around it and you can pull it out.
Presumably, that image of a long animal around a stick as a healing process is
what gave the caducean, the symbol to medicine of a snake around a stick.
Anyone familiar with anything like this?
~~~
Aelinsaar
I would suggest that you not google image search that, as I did. There are
many modern results, and it's quite awful.
~~~
bertil
Yup: girlfriend is an MD, I learnt the hard way to deactivate Google Image
before any medical search. I would ban any relation to dermatology from GI if
I could.
~~~
Aelinsaar
Oh god yes. My "Cannot unsee" file is overwhelmingly dermatological, or burns.
------
kpwagner
Neal DeGrasse Tyson did an interview with Jimmy Carter on his podcast
(Startalk); the interview covered the guinea worm in detail--very interesting.
------
praptak
I wonder how much danger there is of the worm finding a new host species. I
mean an animal other than dog and possibly harder to control. That would be a
disastrous outcome.
~~~
lovemenot
Little danger, I guess. The eradication program introduces no new evolutionary
pressure on worms' lavae living in water. Those filtered out or killed in
their hosts are removed from the gene pool anyway.
On the other hand, we may discover more such preexisting hosts, as dogs. A
parasitic relationship that evolved over a much longer period than a few mere
decades and evolving from a much larger population than the few individuals
thought to remain in the wild.
~~~
appleflaxen
> introduces no new evolutionary pressure on worms' lavae living in water
not being able to reproduce (by infecting a human, which is required in the
reproductive cycle) is just as real of a new evolutionary pressure as dying
is.
------
rer
It's an actual worm.
_The male Guinea worm dies, but the female worm incubates in a person’s body
for a year, where it grows three to five feet long. It forms a horribly
painful and itchy blister until it erupts through the flesh of the legs, arms
or even chest_
------
ufo
Great news, although I suspect the Save the Guinea Worm Foundation may not
agree with me: [http://www.deadlysins.com/guinea-
worm/](http://www.deadlysins.com/guinea-worm/)
~~~
BearOso
The reference to Swift at the bottom suggests this is satire.
~~~
toomanybeersies
Upon further investigation of the man's twitter and blog, I'd be inclined to
agree with you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Compromise Bitcoin for just $1.2M - matt2000
http://matthall2000.tumblr.com/post/48520639291/can-the-bitcoin-blockchain-be-compromised-for-1-2m
======
PaperclipTaken
This may seem cheap, but there are already many, many orders out there for
ASIC, and all of the factories are backed up. Butterfly Labs only recently
released models that have been on order for many months (I want to say greater
than 6). If you put down $1.2 million, it could be months before you got your
machines and by then you would no longer control 50% of the mining.
This dollar amount is also particularly low because ASIC technology is new -
most people who have put money into ASICs aren't even mining yet. Once the
technology is settled in, controlling the block chain will become more
expensive.
Furthermore, the number of things that you can do while controlling the block
chain is actually really limited. You still can't spend other people's money.
You can prevent people from spending money, but you can't make them spend
money. You can double spend yourself, but if the bitcoin community was aware
that someone was manipulating the block chain, they would be much more careful
about accepting transactions from new wallets, and would reject all
transactions from a wallet they knew was controlled by the double spender.
Furthermore, if you did take control of the block chain I personally would
dump a few thousand into miners myself, to help regain control of the system.
I'm sure that I'm not alone, and the act of bitcoin users simply 'fighting
back' may be enough to minimize your control of the market.
And finally, as other people have stated, you can always change the hashing
algorithm. Most people use 1 bitcoin client. In fact, this client once had an
update that caused an error and forked the block chain and allowed at least
one person to double spend $10,000. In the event of a major crisis, there
would most be enough bitcoin users willing to fork the block chain that you
could indeed get a new hashing algorithm designed to be incompatible with the
attackers hardware. The choice is between that and watch your 'distributed'
currency fall under the control of a tyrant.
Someone taking control of the mining process IS a risk, and there are some
powerful things you can do with that (like mine 100% of all the new bitcoins,
taking control of the supply, and double spending, and rejecting transactions
by others), but it would probably take a lot more than $1.2 million dollars
because people would fight back, and you are still at risk of the rest of the
community forking away from your control. That said, you could still do
terrible damage and the price would probably plunge, and you may be able to
double spend millions of dollars before enough people noticed to start
rejecting your transactions. (are there even millions of dollars worth of
things you can buy? and would you have to worry about a government getting
involved because you committed financial crimes?)
And even if you manage to maintain control, all that will happen is people
will stop using bitcoin until you let up. It's much like a DDOS. It takes
power (electricity) to maintain that much computation, and the longer you
maintain control, the less bitcoin will be worth.
Edit: I want to add that the scariest attacks only happen at 50% control. At
40%, you can only double spend -sometimes-, and I don't think that you would
be able to block transactions at all. Furthermore an organized network (and
there is much debate about how organized bitcoin could get, after all it is
designed to be distributed) could undo any double spending and you would be
limited to slowing bitcoin down. At 20% market power, the probability of you
achieving a double spend or undoing some transactions is very small.
~~~
bitcoin-fool
I agree it would take a long time and be unlikely for a single ASIC-purchasing
party to reach 50%. Another organization, an ASIC-datacenter-hoster, could do
it.
BFL has an "ASIC hosting program" where those purchasing more powerful BFL
machines can put their machines in an affiliate datacenter. There is real
incentive to have one's ASICs hosted there, especially given that power
requirements are 6-7 times originally forecast (one needs commercial space to
run these now), and that this new hardware has an unknown failure rate and a
real tangible cost to not working. The hosting center provides direct
maintenance from BFL personnel, so one's machine shouldn't be down for more
than a day or two for any failure. _I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of
BFL ASIC purchasers opt to host their hardware in this datacenter._
The hosting program could lead to the mining pool (the default option is for
your BFL ASIC to join the mining pool) at the datacenter having > 50%, under
complete control of the affiliate datacenter.
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5584783>
------
wladimir
I don't expect this to happen, ASICs will be pretty widely distributed before
anyone can pull this off. However there is a contingency plan for when this
happens: switch the hashing algorithm (for example to scrypt, or something
memory hard w/ lots of random flow control). This puts all ASICs out of the
game at once. Miners will not like it, but if the other alternative is a non-
functioning currency, they will likely cooperate.
~~~
dualogy
> switch the hashing algorithm
OH boy now _this_ is interesting -- to an outsider like me, explain who would
decide this? Some central committee? The source-code "custodian"? Will BTC
fork at that point so every holder can "vote with their (pardon) dollar" but
would also need to bet on everyone else's choice?
~~~
nightpool
Changes to the Bitcoin protocol can be ratified by a majority of miners, in
the same "longest blockchain" method.
~~~
deepblueocean
This is a common misconception, I think. If you try to model the protocol
economically, it's pretty clear that it's a majority of currency holders (what
the core developers call an "economic majority"), not a majority of miners
that matters in determining whether a protocol change is valid.
Exercise for the reader: determine whether these sets are different in a
meaningful way.
~~~
dragonwriter
> This is a common misconception, I think. If you try to model the protocol
> economically, it's pretty clear that it's a majority of currency holders
> (what the core developers call an "economic majority"), not a majority of
> miners that matters in determining whether a protocol change is valid.
Actually, its neither, if you really think about it. Currency users (in
exchange) are more important than either miners or holders (with the caveat
that you need some number > 0 of miners to validate exchanges) to whether a
protocol change has economic effect, but once some group adopts a protocol
change, what you have is a fork into two separate currencies until a consensus
is achieved.
Passive currency holders have little driving force in this; currency users are
the main driving force, because wherever its being used is where it will have
value. Miners have some force because without some of them, the system
collapses.
And among currency users, the ones that matter the most are the ones that
_accept_ bitcoin for goods and services, not the ones that spend it. (In the
"steady state" those should be approximately the same, but as long as mining
is still producing coins you can have miners/spenders that aren't accepters,
and even in the steady state you could have people who inherit hoards and
slowly deplete them as users that aren't accepting.)
------
NamTaf
In comparison, Amazon EC2 offers GPU clusters for $2.10000/hr [1]. Each
cluster contains 2x M2050 Fermi cores [2] which each put out ~80MHash/sec [3].
To get the requisite 64686 GHash/sec, you'd need to spin up 404287 of these
things, which costs you $849000/hr. This is of course assuming Amazon has
400000 instances of the GPU compute clusters.
The cheaper alternative is to utilise spot GPU instances, costing only
$0.346/hr [4]. At that price, i's $139900/hr or so. I am willing to bet that
they do not just have 400000 spare GPU instances laying around unused,
however.
All this was purely academic, but it kind of amuses me that for a theoretical
$140000/hr, you could hyjack bitcoin as it is currently.
[1] <http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/>
[2] <http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/>
[3] <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison>
[4] <http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/#spot>
~~~
raverbashing
"To get the requisite 64686 GHash/sec, you'd need to spin up 404287 of these
things, which costs you $849000/hr."
Really, I don't think even Amazon has enough of this hardware. And AFAIK these
(GPU clusters) are not virtualized.
Makes me wonder what happens if you have a cost advantage in taking the
cheapest PC hardware and plugging high-end GPU cards (beyond ASICs)
------
drcode
Keep in mind that a plan like that would take, at best, half a year to put in
place. In that time the amount of ASICs in existence will already be far
higher than it is today (I would guess at least three times what it is at the
moment.)
~~~
polarix
3x? More like 300x, I'd say. Once the first few roll out of BFL these things
will be coming online as fast as you can say "money press".
~~~
consz
That assumes BFL won't just run off with all the money.
------
mjn
If the bar is that low, this does suggest that, contrary to some conspiracy
theories, governments aren't really out to destroy Bitcoin, since they
could've done so by now if they had really wanted to.
~~~
DanBC
There's other things they could be doing.
Bitcoin isn't intrinsically anonymous, so maybe they're just keeping an eye on
anyone not being anonymous.
Wait until someone sells polonium or uranium on Silk Road to see if Tor /
Bitcoin stand up.
~~~
polarix
Correction: bitcoin is only "not anonymous" if the transaction history network
contains a contact point with the physical world, that is, if some transaction
is associated with a physical good shipment or traditional world identity.
~~~
DanBC
Bitcoin is not inherently anonymous. Users have to do stuff to be anonymous
when using Bitcoin. To say otherwise is wrong and dangerous.
([http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2011/07/bitcoin...](http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2011/07/bitcoin-
is-not-inherently-anon.html))
(<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2800790>)
(<https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity>)
([http://anonymity-in-
bitcoin.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/bitcoin-i...](http://anonymity-in-
bitcoin.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/bitcoin-is-not-anonymous.html))
------
fosap
AFAIK you don't need much computing power, you just need to be lucky to be the
first one to solve the problem and create a new hash. I case you have lot's of
tries even a 0.05% chance every 10 minutes might be enough.
Not sure if i make a mistake here, but it seems to be easy.
0,5 < (n choose 1) * (1-0.0005)^n
0,5 < 1 * (1-0.0005)^n
log(0,5)/log(1-0.0005) < n
1385.95 < n
13860 minutes < 10 days
So a 50% chance in 10 days. If you have a 0.05% of the computing power of the
whole network.
------
rheide
I'm not sure there's $1.2M worth of ASIC hardware made yet. Also, for that
amount of money you could do a lot of malicious things, even to traditional
banks.
~~~
betterunix
"I'm not sure there's $1.2M worth of ASIC hardware made yet."
I am pretty sure a large government could make its own ASICs...
~~~
joezydeco
You don't think the NSA could free up a few machines and have a couple of
Terahash/Sec available in a weekend?
------
bayesianhorse
There is probably no business case for such an operation. To benefit from an
extreme price crash you either have to short bitcoin or buy a ton of stuff
with it. In the latter case it is hard to imagine a merchant honoring such
orders if he is not convinced the blockchain is sound.
As for shorting bitcoin... It's certainly not impossible. But shorting a few
Million of Dollars of Bitcoin? If this is done in any kind of trading account
(without the money being physically in the hand of the attacker), the trading
institution would probably be out of business because of the price drop
anyway, before paying the profits to the attacker...
For everyone else... You shouldn't have more than 20 BTC on hand anyway.
Preferably a lot less, depending on the rest of your portfolio. In these cases
any price drop isn't going to wipe you out and the network resumes normal
operation.
------
bitcoin-fool
See <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5585166> for information on BFL's
hosting program. It's likely that BFL and affiliate datacenter personnel will
control > 50% of the bitcoin hash rate at some point. Here's my comment on
that thread ...
\--
BFL has affiliate data centers where those purchasing the more powerful BFL
machines can have their systems hosted, for a fee. The default option: "Your
hosted units will be added to a mining farm and you will be paid out regularly
based on their collective output." Datacenter and BFL personnel will be
monitoring the machines for defects and maintaining them. The hosting option
makes sense for new untested hardware like this ...
So, it's likely the BFL datacenter mining pool will control > 50% of the
bitcoin hashrate at some point.
------
free652
And of course you forgot that the difficulty would increase?
Who sells ASICS 66GH for $1250? That page is outdated.
Avalons are going for 72BTC that's over $9000
~~~
kolinko
Well, the difficulty increase wouldn't stop an attacker having >50% computing
power. Only switching the algorithm would (assuming the attacker would use
ASICs)
------
kaoD
This would not disrupt Bitcoin for too long. I'd just move the blockchain to a
different algorithm and BOOM your ASICs are worthless and Bitcoin will still
go on.
$1.2M will shutdown Bitcoin for, at most, a couple days... and then you're
left with a bunch of useless ASICs.
And all that assuming that nobody else will get ASICs, which will make the
attack more expensive.
It's just not worth it.
~~~
Drakim
Don't you have to get all other bitcoin users to also migrate over to this new
algorithm?
And even if it's just down for a couple of days, that's terrible. Bitcoin is
still pretty small in the grand scheme of things, but imagine if regular money
stopped working for a couple of days.
~~~
kaoD
Miners WILL switch (for their own benefit). Something like this has happened
before[1] (though the mining algorithm didn't change) and the community did
cooperate. Some miners will be happy about it, specially the ones with GPUs
which will be thrown off the game once ASICs arrive (and will get back in the
game once ASICs are killed).
Well, if I can get a government to spend $1.2 M just to shutdown a currency
for a couple days, I guess _we won_ (specially hardware manufacturers).
Also: Bitcoin will never replace regular money, and it isn't meant to.
IMHO this attack will not kill Bitcoin, only ASICs.
[1] <http://bitcoin.org/chainfork.html>
~~~
swinglock
The algorithm was not replaced, then it wouldn't be BitCoin anymore.
[https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/List_of_alternative_cryptocurrenc...](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/List_of_alternative_cryptocurrencies)
~~~
kaoD
It will still be Bitcoin, with a different algorithm... Bitcoin is not just a
protocol and some algorithms behind it.
Bitcoin is a community and a currency. Your Bitcoins will still be called
Bitcoin, you'll have the same wallet and the same number of BTC in your
accounts. The webpage will still be www.bitcoin.org and we'll talk in #bitcoin
as we used to do.
Changing Bitcoin to scrypt will not magically turn Bitcoin into Litecoin.
This scenario has been envisioned before. Nothing new here. Bitcoin will
prevail.
~~~
rubinelli
I think the fact that Bitcoin is a community is its main problem. Miners have
acted altruistically a few times in the past, but as the pool grows, getting
them to do anything beyond the Nash Equilibrium will get progressively harder.
Bitcoin may prevail, but it will have to go through a painful 2.0 evolution at
some point.
~~~
kaoD
Economic majority will ALWAYS win by definition.
~~~
rubinelli
And a smart agent with enough resources can lead the economic majority like
lemmings down a cliff once it reaches a certain size and becomes dumb.
While your miners are mostly hobbyists that you can access via Skype, it's
easy to say "hey guys, let's stop this chain and switch to that other one."
Once you have large companies with dedicated ASIC racks in the game, and any
change that could impact the short-term bottom line has to go through four
levels of management, you are SOL.
------
kalleboo
That's assuming you could get your hands on ASIC hardware. None of it has
shipped to customers yet, and once it has, the difficulty will skyrocket.
~~~
asdfaoeu
It has but only that first batch. The author also makes the mistake only that
first batch sold at they rate the new batch is priced at 75btc.
Interesting to know how much it would cost to build your own machines only
reasonable solution at this time.
~~~
jpdoctor
> _Interesting to know how much it would cost to build your own machines only
> reasonable solution at this time._
Finger in the air calculation: $3-4M. Assumes knowledgeable designers, and
good ops people with decent offshore assembly experience.
None of this is particularly difficult from the standpoint of a VLSI. The
issue is that profitability is questionable: If you're successful, you pretty
much destroy the economic niche that forms your customers.
~~~
jpdoctor
Whoops: s/VLSI/VLSI designer/
------
jordanbaucke
If you wanted to damage/degrade BTC with $1.2 million I think the "smart
money" wouldn't be investing in the custom hardware to compromise it - but
instead to flood the markets with liquidity. BTC is still so thinly traded
that a million dumped in pieces could have a serious destabilizing affect. Not
that reducing price was the actual subject of the topic but...
------
awestroke
I think longest blockchain attacks only apply to double-spending, so you still
can't "compromise" coins that are not your own
~~~
emiliobumachar
If a few agents start double-spending, that creates a strong disincentive for
anyone to accept bitcoin at all, which can doom the entire currency.
------
narcissus
Assuming nobody else buys any of this hardware too. That's how I see this
anyway. All of these theories assume that nobody else is going to try and do
the same...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Can you help me search this particular job listing website? - zubinmehta
I am trying to find a job website that was posted on HN (not sure of the timeline).It had location filters on top. Locations were statewise for the US.<p>The killer feature was the no BS UI of the website.
The site looked very clean, white background, bluish links and on click or hover had a fresh yellow background. Fonts were small. None of the links were underlined if my memory serves me right.<p>Unfortunately I had not upvoted and have tried keyword searching through HN but was unable to find it. I am not sure if it was a SHOW HN but have tried searching a compiled list of show HN too but unsuccessful.<p>If anyone knows what I am talking about, it would be great if you could point me to it.<p>Edit: links looked like that on craiglist except onhover color
======
xzxz
[https://www.staticjobs.com/](https://www.staticjobs.com/)
------
throwaway_009
You mean lever? e.g.
[https://jobs.lever.co/wish?team=Engineering%20-%20Infrastruc...](https://jobs.lever.co/wish?team=Engineering%20-%20Infrastructure)
~~~
zubinmehta
nop, the links blue color looked like craiglist styled links.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Twitter and the Internet War - dsr12
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/02/how-twitter-lost-the-internet-war
======
continuations
> Twitter’s backend was initially built on Ruby on Rails, a rudimentary web-
> application framework that made it nearly impossible to find a technical
> solution to the harassment problem.
This is probably a new low in journalism.
~~~
kenning
Can you elaborate? I don't know much about ror and would like to know more.
~~~
ericd
The web framework (Ruby on Rails) has nothing to do with the ability to build
anti-harassment tech.
~~~
liquidgecka
Its not described well at all in the article, but the instance on sticking
with a RoR framework well beyond what it could rightfully scale up to is what
kept us from building a great, great many features, least of which was
harassment tooling. It wasn't RoR's fault beyond being the framework selected
early on, and dogmatically stuck too long after it stopped helping us move
forward quickly.
------
firasd
My general feeling when it comes to questions about harassment on Twitter is
that people look at it too much as a policy issue ("you're not banning and
deleting enough accounts according to my ideological stance"), which has its
place, but there's a lot of product aspects that make it such a shouty place.
A good example is the way the 'quote tweet' feature is often used to start a
pile-on. It's not a bad feature in itself, but there is a significant portion
of usage that lends itself to starting food fights. Could things be improved
by, for example, a setting that limits quote-tweets to people who follow you?
There's a lot of dynamics like that which can be explored.
~~~
philwelch
Jeff Vogel:
> Twitter was designed, from Day 1, to enable any random person to send
> messages directly to any public figure. In other words, from Day 1, it was
> designed to be an abuse and harassment engine. It's not a bug. It's a
> feature. All that abuse and controversy is how it gets clicks and money.
[http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2016/04/how-i-deal-with-haras...](http://jeff-
vogel.blogspot.com/2016/04/how-i-deal-with-harassment-abuse-and.html)
Twitter's feature set is perfectly optimized for harassment and abuse.
Changing it to prevent harassment and abuse would kill the product.
------
JumpCrisscross
“I think what religion and politics have in common is that they become part of
people's identity, and people can never have a fruitful argument about
something that's part of their identity. By definition they're partisan.
Which topics engage people's identity depends on the people, not the topic.
For example, a discussion about a battle that included citizens of one or more
of the countries involved would probably degenerate into a political argument.
But a discussion today about a battle that took place in the Bronze Age
probably wouldn't. No one would know what side to be on. So it's not politics
that's the source of the trouble, but identity. When people say a discussion
has degenerated into a religious war, what they really mean is that it has
started to be driven mostly by people's identities.
...
More generally, you can have a fruitful discussion about a topic only if it
doesn't engage the identities of any of the participants. What makes politics
and religion such minefields is that they engage so many people's identities.
But you could in principle have a useful conversation about them with some
people. And there are other topics that might seem harmless, like the relative
merits of Ford and Chevy pickup trucks, that you couldn't safely talk about
with others.“
[http://paulgraham.com/identity.html?viewfullsite=1](http://paulgraham.com/identity.html?viewfullsite=1)
------
danso
This is the excerpt I've seen being tweeted about this piece:
_At the same time, her defenders say, Harvey has been forced to clean up a
mess that Twitter should have fixed years ago. Twitter’s backend was initially
built on Ruby on Rails, a rudimentary web-application framework that made it
nearly impossible to find a technical solution to the harassment problem. If
Twitter’s co-founders had known what it would become, a third former executive
told me, “you never would have built it on a Fisher-Price infrastructure.”
Instead of building a product that could scale alongside the platform, former
employees say, Twitter papered over its problems by hiring more moderators.
“Because this is just an ass-backward tech company, let’s throw non-scalable,
low-tech solutions on top of this low-tech, non-scalable problem.”_
Setting aside the whole "Ruby/Rails is slow" discussion, I would've loved to
see more elaboration by these sources about how a web framework makes
moderation and policing "nearly impossible". Compared to what? The PHP scripts
that became Facebook?
~~~
liquidgecka
Hi, early Twitter employee here. The reliability team called the
infrastructure Fisher-Price internally so this wasn't just one random
executive coming up with a term on his/her own.
The problem wasn't ruby. The problem was the way that Twitter used Ruby. We
had one big mono repo with every single function and every form of business
logic baked into a single place. That logic relied on monkey patching and all
sorts of crazy horrible glue to keep it working together. Every time we had to
scale up we would glue infra in place to keep things working while we came up
with a real solution (which never really materialized).
In my time there we had memcache instances which held timelines. Populating
them took hours/days and while they were unpopulated the site was offline.
Rebooting/restarting the caches was simply not an option. We had a data
sharding strategy that was temporal. We would spin up a new database cluster
every few weeks to handle all of the incoming tweets and failing to spin up a
new cluster in time meant we would have a global site outage. Don't even get
me started on the "load bearing mac mini".
In reality the only problem rails really contributed on its own was that it
could only process a single request per process at a time. Each machine would
spin up 16 or 32 processes to handle requests in parallel but each process
needed its own connection to the database, to memcache, etc. At one point we
had something like 100k processes all trying to talk to a single mysql master.
Much of this could have been mitigated by better design of course, but rails
encourages models that don't scale up to crazy dimensions.
In reality moderation was virtually impossible because we were in a 24/7 fight
with ourselves about how to keep the system alive for the next couple of days.
Constant infighting, managerial changes (I had 9 different managers in 3
years), focus changes (we didn't finish the last major site redesign before
starting the next one) and a general unwillingness to pause features long
enough to stabilize the system meant we were always on the losing end of a
infra battle.
~~~
stryk
I don't know nearly enough about large scale projects or the startup world
maybe this is a silly question but when it became apparent that it was blowing
up far beyond what you were expecting, was it not an option to have another
team (hire or split existing) in parallel, to start writing a re-implmentation
in another language or system that would work better for your new quickly
expanding needs? Was that just not feasible?, no doubt it was a crazy hectic
time for you folks back then, I can't even really imagine what that was like.
~~~
liquidgecka
Thats what kept happening and it was an abysmal failure.
Every so often a person would have a brilliant idea on how to solve our
scaling issues. They would then disappear into a corner to invent yet-another-
bird-themed-datastore. After a few weeks/months they would appear with a
magical new thing that would fix all our problems and would make everybody
happy. Every single time it would fail.
Having a team that is not the main team design something means that they
likely didn't understand the state of the thing that they were replacing. The
thing they were replacing was a bucket of edge cases non of which they knew
about. The scale never looked like what they expected because in the meantime
the load had changed. This was compounded by the constant desire to hire
somebody external that could solve the problem for us. They would come in with
ego and a feeling that they had a mandate to replace it all. Eventually they
would learn just how fragile and complicated the system was, only to then be
considered old guard enough to be replaced by the next wave of experts. =/
But the number one killer was that every single thing was baked into the mono
repo so it wasn't like they could have just easily shimmed in something to
replace the old thing. All the while that they are building in a change to the
data store another dev has added 15 new features that they now have to port
over. In the time it took to port those over another 20 had been added.. etc.
Just getting the okay to pause feature development was like pulling teeth and
it only bought you a few weeks at best.
~~~
Abderian
Maybe I'm being dumb here, but twitter doesn't look like a product from the
outside that has many features. Are these focused on advertisers, analytics or
what?
~~~
liquidgecka
At the time Twitter had a ton of features under the hood that kept being
supported and maintained, all of which just added complexity to the system.
We had an API service, a web interface, the legacy web interface that was
still used for select devices because the new UI didn't quite work right on
them, the even older legacy interface that was necessary because a bunch of
badly behaved early day clients still relied on the functionality and they
were popular enough that turning them off would cause outrage, the "zero"
interface used in countries with low bandwidth capabilities, the mobile
interface.
Each interface had to implement all the different variations on functionality.
Timelines with inline tweet rendering (automatic expansion of images, etc),
list (alternate view time lines), the whole following graph (duplicated for
lists as well), verified users and all the infra around that, search,
public/private designations, direct messages, notifications via email, text
message, and mobile app, favorites, retweets, replies, plus a slew of
statistics and information tracking data integrated directly into the site..
Thats only the user visible stuff. There are a TON of experiments and projects
that run behind that interface in a way the user will never completely see.
We heard over and over that twitter was so simple that it could run on a
laptop and every time it reminded me just how clueless most developers are
when it comes to seeing the body of work needed to make something like twitter
work, even more so at the scale we are talking about.
------
mark242
Part of the problem is that Twitter encouraged automated signups in the early
days, blazing the trail for gigantic bot-farms that we all talk about today.
They pushed popular rss-to-tweet gateways, wordpress plugins for auto-tweeting
blog posts, etc. There should have been gigantic red flags waving when the
hypergrowth of Twitter really started, because you knew these weren't all
people signing up for one account.
I'm not sure if Twitter can ever put pandora back in the box, but at the very
least, requiring a mobile number is a start. It's hard(-ish) to generate
thousands of bots if you have to have a unique phone number with multifactor
for each signup.
------
icelancer
Lost? How is Twitter losing the Internet War? Their platform is more
influential than ever and helped to seriously impact a presidential election
(the results of which not too many people in media are happy with, fair
enough).
Yes, the platform is a failure in so many ways - failure to protect the
identity and safety of the people on it. (Though as someone who has served a
subpoena to Twitter, let me tell you something - the legal team isn't exactly
handing over data easily. It was a huge pain in the ass with tons of
individual privacy concerns the whole way.)
And the platform is failing revenue-wise, yes.
But if it's about the Internet War, so to speak? Twitter is at the top of it
all. No one has to like the externalities - I sure don't - but their influence
is undeniable.
~~~
oceanghost
You're going to think I'm trolling, but I'm not--
What value does Twitter provide to ordinary people? I have friends who are
celebrities in their industries or trying to market themselves-- but other
than that it seems like the most hostile place imaginable. Why would I want to
participate in that?
~~~
craftyguy
In the US, most ordinary people pay attention to twitter's top customer:
donald trump
~~~
olivermarks
I suspect the vast majority of people read what Trump said on Twitter on their
favorite news site, rather than using Twitter itself.
------
anonytrary
This smells like boring FUD. Twitter is an incredible tool for real-time
information, and everyone already uses it. Twitters content problems are great
problems to have, similar to the problems Facebook faces. I think Twitter has
a very bright future.
Using Facebook, I have always felt that the website tried to "force" me into
where it thought I belonged in the social graph. Twitter has a much lower
barrier to entry. I prefer the lurker-first philosophy. Facebook tries way too
hard to engineer interactions (so does Twitter, but I think it's not as bad).
------
pg_bot
Well at least we now know the solution to all of society's problems is making
Ruby on Rails fast. Perhaps one day we can let out a collective sigh of relief
once we remove the global interpreter lock.
------
iisbum
What a cop out.
If they really wanted to solve the problem all it takes it consuming their own
firehose API and writing back to delete flagged content.
You really don't need to insert the moderation into the "backend", you just
have to want to solve the problem, instead of accepting the problem because it
fuels your growth.
~~~
itronitron
This article is an interesting variant on the 'we're trying but it's a really
hard problem' puff PR piece.
------
flashman
> There are two main components to Harvey’s job, this person told me: to
> formulate a clear set of rules for what constitutes abusive speech, and to
> be consistent in enforcing them.
The odds are against Harvey being the first person in human history to solve
this problem without false positives and negatives.
~~~
otterley
The big question in my eyes is not how a human can reduce the error rate, but
rather, which category of errors one should bias towards.
I know where I stand on this one: be biased against the mean-spirited.
~~~
proofbygazing
Wow you're really great
------
ohiovr
I lurved the hate they had on ruby. I've never used ruby but strikes me as
childish to blame all your ills on software that they developed to run their
whole company on. I mean they could have used PHP, a real professional
language! Just like what Facebook used :D
------
petraeus
Twitter chased growth at the expense of quality, quality moderation, and
quality infrastructure. Thats all it boils down to.
------
Aurelia_Cotta
I am not a coder by any means, but I am a heavy social media user and know a
lot about politics, sociology, psych, organizing, health, comms---and I admit,
until I read this thread, I liked this article because it gave me a better
reason for all the screw ups, beyond, "The Executives are dithering and have
no business skills and social skills." Or the theory "The Executives do
nothing because they don't care if women and vulnerable people die." Which is
far more disturbing....it can't be true, even if it _feels_ true. I would give
anything if they'd listen to users who have been around awhile. So few people
worked there and also used it at the same time. (And users longingly miss the
Fail Whale logo...) As a user (250,000+ tweets) under a pseudonym, twitter has
incredible uses, things Facebook and other platforms didn't do, because they
were so closed and hard to search. They created echo Chambers, because you
could only see people you already knew or were slightly connected too. Or
worse, your mom or mother-in-law could find you. Twitter was so open--if I
want to discuss philosophy or Japanese food or an MRI result, 24/7 I just
search and people who love that are there. And pseudonyms had to exist,
because thousands of people in real life have the same name. (just like the
rest of the Internet back then and yes, now too) They thought people would
just post status updates like, hey eating lunch, but we did way way more. They
made it 140 chars with 20 chars reserved for names because many people had
expensive tiny data plans, but could update by text message; allowing a much
wider demographic to use it, and across multiple countries, even low tech ones
with limited access. The most critical piece tho is that users invented
everything good about twitter (Sorry creators--but we did). TW allowed some
html symbols, so a user put an @ in front of a user name to reply, and it
worked! Users also invented hashtags, the first one was for organizing BarCamp
--which was kind of a conference not about alcohol and the original manual RT,
and MT for modified tweet, and commenting on top of someone's tweet, or at the
end of it and we figured out how to shrink long urls to post links. bit.ly had
no purpose til then, and many users became Developers and got full access to
the API and we crowdsourced hundreds of changes and ideas, from pictures to
videos to emoji to gifs to analytics, to accessible apps for people with
vision, hearing, speech issues. All while making lots and lots of jokes. They
didn't start out with a heavy respect for pseudonyms, and privacy, and free
speech--but TW learned it fast after the Green Iran Revolution, and after many
patient users wanted to keep privacy because they had rare diseases, and
mental health issues, and parents of kids with autism and speech issues took
to it and found each other and felt less alone. It was less complicated than
blogging and writing long stories on laptops after events happened. I could do
everything from live tweeting a doctor's appt to an ER visit and get reactions
from friends who could tell me what to ask. We still tweet everything from
recipes to exact instructions on how to ride a bike, how to organize groups
like #occupy to crowd sourcing Flu symptoms and rashes, to who is watching
what TV show and how cool it is to watch live sports "together" even for
people who can't leave the house that night and meet. Weekly hour long Chats
take place under special hashtags like #hcsm for Health Care Social Media or
#meded for medical education. (doctors and science fans and academics found
twitter and they debate articles, techniques, crowdsource diagnoses) Police
and emergency responders and good Samaritans have used it to (swear to god,
it's true) befriend people who sound troubled or suicidal and validate their
pain and sadness and find them help. It is to this day, the only platform I
know that allows people from many different areas to find like-minded people
and to bring together people across multiple subject areas. Nothing else does
it quite the same way. Especially with the ridiculous algorithms other
platforms use.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Reproducible Signal builds for Android - qznc
https://whispersystems.org/blog/reproducible-android/
======
JoshTriplett
> Reproducible builds help to verify that the source code in our GitHub
> repository is the exact source code used to build the compiled Signal APK
> being distributed through Google Play.
This is huge; it eliminates one of the biggest issues with distributing
through third-party app stores.
> Just to head off the inevitable deluge of GPG encrypted emails with dramatic
> subject lines, we are not doing this in response to any kind of legal threat
> or presssure. This is just a weekend hack, please don't make us regret it.
I wonder what kinds of mails like these they've received in the past to prompt
this disclaimer?
~~~
sigmar
>I wonder what kinds of mails like these they've received in the past to
prompt this disclaimer?
I believe he is being a bit tongue-in-cheek. Moxie has previously mentioned
his dislike of the typical emails he gets from the type of people that use GPG
([http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/gpg-and-
me/](http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/gpg-and-me/))
~~~
scintill76
And a more recent statement: "Was reflecting on how the quality of my email
inbox had become less awful lately, then remembered I added a rule to drop pgp
encrypted mail."
[https://twitter.com/moxie/status/709492776635752448](https://twitter.com/moxie/status/709492776635752448)
~~~
Freak_NL
Reading that, and the blog post linked to by sigmar, his stance comes across
as rather belligerent; perhaps even childish. I would expect that if you
wanted to communicate with someone who is privacy-conscious, and provides a
public e-mail address linked to a GPG-identity, encrypting and signing your
message to him or her is only civil and is to be expected.
I understand Moxie's criticism of existing crypto-tools, GnuPG in particular,
and he makes some valid points, but dismissing anyone who mails you and uses
GPG (because you have published your GPG public key) as nutjobs seems overly
antagonistic. That to me seems at odds with the greater goal of facilitating
easily attainable privacy and digital freedom for all.
------
ge0rg
There are two trust problems that verifiable builds are supposed to solve:
1\. Did the authors manipulate the source code compared to what they
published?
2\. Did a third party manipulate the binaries on the distribution channel?
_The process of verifying a build can be done through a Docker image
containing an Android build environment that we 've published._
For the verification, you now depend on a _complex_ binary blob provided by
the authors, that is distributed through a different channel (Docker images
instead of Google Play).
This is a good solution to the second problem, but it does not preclude OWS
insiders from injecting malicious code (they merely need to add the backdoor
at the SDK level[0] and use that same SDK for the public releases). Such a
manipulation could be performed by an evil insider, or be part of a
"government cooperation". I am not saying that OWS is or will be doing this.
This is merely an observation of the shortcomings of the overall solution.
[0] "Reflections on Trusting Trust"
[https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thomp...](https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thompson.pdf)
~~~
haffenloher
> For the verification, you now depend on a complex binary blob provided by
> the authors, that is distributed through a different channel (Docker images
> instead of Google Play).
Nothing stops you from building the Docker image yourself using the Dockerfile
provided in the repo. [https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-
Android/blob/master...](https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-
Android/blob/master/Dockerfile)
~~~
davexunit
But those Docker images are _not_ reproducible. They don't build everything
from source from a trusted, well-known set of bootstrap binaries, nor will
they produce bit-identical binaries. Docker does absolutely nothing to aid in
the task of reproducible builds. See [https://reproducible-
builds.org](https://reproducible-builds.org) for more information about
initiatives that are helping.
Using something like GNU Guix instead of Docker, one could make good progress
towards a reproducible Android tool chain that produces bit-identical APKs.
Reproducibility is an ongoing problem, but Guix has been carefully designed to
maximize reproducibility and to help identify what _isn 't_ reproducible.
------
smartbit
As much as I like this, I'm refusing to use Signal for Moxie's[1] stance on
requiring access to the address book on iOS [2].
Regretfully I'm not skilled enough to modify the code and create a branch.
[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11288169](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11288169)
[2] [https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-
iOS/search?utf8=&q=...](https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-
iOS/search?utf8=&q=ADDRESSBOOK_RESTRICTED_ALERT_BODY)
~~~
simoncion
Oddly, the Android version _seems_ to work just fine if it doesn't have access
to your contacts. (Like -ferinstance- if you use Cyanogenmod's Privacy Guard
stuff to deny access.)
I don't _know_ , but I've heard Internet Rumors that OWS has been having
difficulty finding folks to work on the iOS version of Signal.
Not that you asked for it, but my stance on the read-contacts issue is this:
if I can't trust OWS to treat the contacts information that the Signal client
transfers to their server as confidential, then I sure as fuck can't trust
them to actually resist the urge to subvert either their client or their
server code (whether for financial gain, or because someone with a gun comes
knocking). Given that I trust OWS to act with integrity, I don't see any
significant harm in how they currently handle contact data.
~~~
nucleardog
CM's privacy guard doesn't deny access to the contacts, it returns a valid
address book listing... just an empty one instead of your real contacts.
Privacy Guard was implemented well before the idea of individual permissions
being denied made its way into the Android base, so most apps were not
implemented with this expectation and would explode completely if the call to
fetch the address book entries failed.
Which is just to say that that's not really a valid comparison.
~~~
simoncion
> CM's privacy guard doesn't deny access to the contacts, it returns a valid
> address book listing... just an empty one instead of your real contacts. ...
> Which is just to say that that's not really a valid comparison.
Wot? It's _totally_ a valid comparison.
The problem is transmission of contact information from your phone to a third
party. Telling Signal that you have an empty contact list solves that problem,
and it solves it _far_ better than just throwing a permissions error or
whatever when the software goes to request a contacts list.
~~~
nucleardog
> Oddly, the Android version seems to work just fine if it doesn't have access
> to your contacts.
You're specifically calling out CM's Privacy Guard where the app is unaware
that it doesn't have access to your contacts. the difference in behaviour
between "Android" and iOS is not "odd" because it's not a 1:1 comparison, and
the CM way of doing it specifically mitigates the issue that arises.
A consistent comparison would be seeing what the app does when permission is
denied via the runtime permissions in Android 6, because that - like iOS -
informs the app that you've denied permission. There is no obvious incongruity
between the apps here.
~~~
simoncion
> A consistent comparison would be...
Ah! I see what you're saying (and the source of your objection) now. Thanks
for clarifying!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: T0 – A simple (and yet another) URL shortener - wenbin
https://t0.io
======
wenbin
Just a quick & dirty project during Thanksgiving vacation ...
btw, What features do you want most for a url shortener?
~~~
knyte
Not requiring the "[http://"](http://") part, perhaps. (Automatically
appending it if it isn't there).
~~~
wenbin
Fixed. Thanks!
------
wenbin
Added password-protected function.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A functions on demand service – to help you get more done - objectReason
https://medium.com/@J.Palms/functions-on-demand-for-more-productive-development-4ef666f4e7eb#.v0neqnjmz
======
sharemywin
2 thoughts: add a kickstarter type process
how do you do testing?
~~~
objectReason
What part of the Kickstarter process are you referring to?
Testing is done manually by the requester right now. Basically they'll copy
and paste the functions into their code to test the proposed solutions. I'd
like to add automated testing, but that is a little ways down the road still.
~~~
sharemywin
ability to hire tester maybe. allow others to fund project with you.
~~~
objectReason
That's an interesting idea. I like it. Will have to see how that could fit in.
Thanks sharemywin.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
1000W LED on a Drone [video] - modinfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl1xYyGom1g
======
sschueller
$17k for a drone with 10min flight time? Ok, it can carry up to 20lbs which is
quite impressive. [1]
[1] [http://store.freeflysystems.com/products/freefly-
alta8](http://store.freeflysystems.com/products/freefly-alta8)
~~~
georgeecollins
By the way, the flight time to lift ratio of LiIon battery powered drones are
one of the reasons I know all those stories about Amazon using drones to
deliver are absurd. The drones would have power for two or three deliveries at
most. LiIon batteries don't have that long of a lifetime and they are
expensive. Not gonna happen with today's technology.
~~~
Retric
Last mile delivery is really expencive, if the drone uses 1$ worth of battery
life per delivery that's still reasonable costs. It's getting everything else
to work that's the problem.
Consider a golf course that can deliver cold beer out to the green via drones.
8 ice cold beers at ~10lb in a few minutes via cellphone app. A drone could
probably do that 5 times on a single charge, and swapping battery's is easy.
Charge 2$ extra per beer and it's both rather profitable and for now a unique
experience.
~~~
shostack
Exactly. What is it worth to have a fleet of these deliver all packages in a
multi block radius all within a few minutes? You can swap batteries quickly on
the base truck (and probably automate how that swap is done) and move on to
the next zone.
Saves massively on gas and people time (especially when self driving trucks
are mainstream) and in theory are the main way you might deliver packages in a
fully autonomous delivery setup.
------
kevindeasis
I'm starting to get really intrigued by the idea of programming quadcopters,
especially with this demo. I think I could impress the people I am teaching
programming with this type of projects.
I'd like to learn how to program a quadcopter and be able to fix the hardware
just in case something goes wrong.
However, my main problem is that I don't know where to start. I do not have a
hardware background.
Does anyone know some good resource? I'd prefer if it had nothing to do with
the scratch language
~~~
fest
The best (feature-wise) open-source quadcopter platforms are:
* PX4,
* ArduCopter (actually uses parts of PX4),
* PaparazziUAV.
These pack a lot of functionality: really advanced sensor fusion algorithms,
position hold, waypoint/mission functionality, API for external control. At
least PX4 has (working) integration with physics simulator (very useful for
testing).
All of them are great starting points if you want to develop additional useful
functionality (e.g. package drop, autonomous mapping/patrol)- implementing
even the bare minimum pitch/roll/yaw stabilization functionality takes a lot
of effort.
The easier way to enter this domain is using an on-board/companion computer
(typically RaspberryPi/Odroid) to control the autopilot using high-level
commands (e.g. fly to these coordinates, activate that output etc).
Background: I have spent ~2 years working on (sadly) unreleased products in
this domain.
~~~
RealityVoid
I'm intrigued, are you able to say what kind of product did you work on?
Who's doing these kind of products? I've done some things with the PX4 and I
love it, the guys doing it are super smart. I've worked on some indoors
navigation stuff but I wasn't very experienced at the time and the project
turned into a mess.
~~~
fest
Sorry, I don't think I can give you a lot of details. Let's say that one of my
previous employers did a project which was supposed to be indoor quadcopter
for consumers.
Regarding PX4- completely agree. People working on it definitely have high
standards for software engineering practices and sense of responsibility.
ArduPilot guys are also doing very good job, especially regarding state
estimation (sensor fusion).
Indoor navigation is sadly not fully solved problem, at least for open-source
solutions. I have not tried it, but IMO the best option at the moment seems to
be Qualcomm's drone platform, as that has high-resolution, wide angle camera
and enough processing oomph for image processing.
PX4Flow did work on some surfaces, but did not work too well on highly
repetitive textures (e.g. office carpets). The image sensor, although is very
good (global shutter, large, sensitive pixels) had limited resolution and even
more limited was processor doing image processing.
The fusion of flow data was also quite unstable for ArduCopter and PX4 (they
both shared the state estimation code at that point). Some of the problems
were implementation issues (e.g. a few bad measurements caused the rest of
(now valid) measurements to be ignored) but some were fundamental ones. The
algorithms in use relied on constant distance between camera and objects on
scene (required for calculating velocity in uniform units) which was
unrealistic assumption indoors (e.g. flying near walls, over tables, etc).
~~~
RealityVoid
My experience mirrors yours, but I only worked on this for @ 5 months give or
take and didn't really have a big tech team to back me up.
The Qualcomm platform, as far as my understanding goes, still uses the
PX4Flow. I don't know what packages they have for vision but it uses ROS so I
assumed it had some ROS package powering it.
Px4Flow on its own is insufficient, but I was under the impression that it is
able to calculate velocity even with variable distance camera-to-surface, they
do have the ultrasonic sensor there and apparently, adding a lidar greatly
improves performance.
~~~
fest
Qualcomm platform has different camera and is directly connected to SoC, so I
doubt they share anything with PX4Flow.
PX4Flow can calculate velocity when camera-to-surface distance varies, no
doubt about it. The problem is when single frame contains features at various
distances (e.g. lidar/sonar measures distance to ground, but half of the frame
also sees table which is a lot higher).
------
spraak
I think someone seeing this from the ground, not understanding what it is,
might think it's a UFO
~~~
alkonaut
If you can't identify what the flying object is, doesnt that make it a UFO by
definition? ;)
~~~
david-given
I see UFOs all the time; I should really learn more about ornithology.
------
givinguflac
This is so cool. I would love to see a version of this with the ability to
follow you and avoid obstacles on it's own. Basically a kickass outdoor robot
flashlight. Probably not possible with current tech, but bonus points if it
can perch on a tree or something when you're staying in one area to act as a
fixed spotlight.
~~~
Beltiras
With the advent of nanowire-in-gel batteries, flight time might increase
tenfold.
------
juiced
This is great for search and rescue.
~~~
robryk
I expect a drone with a low light and/or thermal camera to be immensely more
useful for SAR.
~~~
FoeNyx
That also reminds me of an interesting research paper last year about a
"Machine Learning Approach to Visual Perception of Forest Trails for Mobile
Robots".
( [http://robohub.org/drones-recognise-and-follow-forest-
trails...](http://robohub.org/drones-recognise-and-follow-forest-trails-in-
search-of-lost-people/) or directly
[http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7358076/](http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7358076/)
and probably available on sci-hub )
~~~
derefr
Imagine "smart" thermal-imaging goggles that don't just show you what they're
filming, but rather spray light out and capture _that_ image—along with the
angle it and position was shot at—then send it to a server, where it gets
photo-stitched together with what everyone _else 's_ goggles are filming to
create a globally illuminated 3D model—which is then what gets sent back and
shown in each person's goggles. Anytime a person—or drone—"saw" part of the
landscape, it have an effect for everyone else analogous to removing fog of
war in an RTS game.
------
WhitneyLand
Really nice project showing a combination of technology and artistry. I wonder
if it's the same guy doing the drone customization, and also producing and
directing the film.
------
anotheryou
A shot with fixed aperture turning the light on would have been nice.
Preferably with some street light for comparison.
------
Numberwang
I like the videos. Did he ever mention what drone he was using?
~~~
baddox
Yes, at the beginning.
[http://freeflysystems.com/alta-8](http://freeflysystems.com/alta-8)
~~~
Waterluvian
He must work for them because this video was half an ad.
------
yq
I have seen RC helicopter powered by 2-stroke gasoline engine. I wonder why
there isn't any Drone use that engine, it basically provide more fly time,
more lift power and short "charge" hours.
~~~
duskwuff
Balancing and maneuvering a multirotor requires fast, precise control of power
output. It's difficult to get that from a gasoline engine.
~~~
RealityVoid
Simple, add a variable pitch propeller. There are people that did it.
~~~
photogrammetry
If you think adding variable pitch propellers to a multirotor is "simple,"
you're sorely mistaken :-)
~~~
baddox
There's not much point in debating what "simple" means, but it has certainly
been done. There are collective pitch multirotors that are mass produced,
marketed and sold to recreational customers, and quite stable. Granted, most
of these still use electric motors. The point is for 3D flying, not the
potential longevity of a combustion engine.
The first commercially available one I know of (no longer produced):
[http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/legacy-product-support-
curti...](http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/legacy-product-support-curtis-
youngblood/attachment/stingray-500/)
A knock-off of the Stingray:
[http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__77122__Assault_Re...](http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__77122__Assault_Reaper_500_Collective_Pitch_3D_Quadcopter_Mode_2_Ready_to_Fly_EU_Warehouse_.html)
A big exception: this thing is massive and works with nitro and 2-stroke
engines:
[http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/legacy-product-support-
curti...](http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/legacy-product-support-curtis-
youngblood/attachment/stingray-500/)
------
buro9
One could use a bicycle lamp easily enough and I suspect it would be smaller
and lighter than the DIY setup shown.
[http://www.lumicycle.com/mountain-bike-lights/summit-
range/s...](http://www.lumicycle.com/mountain-bike-lights/summit-
range/summit-2016.html)
That lamp is 1,100 lumens on standard high power, lasts over 4 and a half
hours at that brightness. And if needed, there is a boost mode that gets you
1,650 lumens but only for a couple of hours.
This is for the smallest battery, a 2.6ah that weighs 220gms.
And if you're wondering, yes my bicycle has insane lights. 2 of those and then
a 605 lumen dynamolamp giving 3,905 lumens on a bicycle. Yes,I chose tight
beam and aim at the ground about 10m ahead, unless I leave the city when I put
one wide beam lamp on and raise it a little.
~~~
peter_132
1k lumen need about 10W electricity if produced by white LEDs. This drone has
about 50-100k lumen
~~~
FoeNyx
On a side note, it might not be a good idea to directly glare at powerful
LEDs.
French Agency for Food, Environmental and Occupational Health & Safety noted
[1] some points that might not be photo-biologicaly safe, the main points
being:
> spectral imbalance (significant proportion of blue light in white LEDs);
> high levels of radiance (high brightness density per surface unit emitted by
> these very small sources)
In the french version of their report, they refer to luminance [2] rather than
radiance.
The spectral imbalance photochemical risk seems linked with cumulative dose of
blue light, so there is also a risk with low but long exposure light LED
screens. It also perturbs circadian cycle (flux or redshift might help in that
case).
See also a previous HN discussion about a warning from the American Medical
Association about the spectral imbalance in LED streetlights [3].
\--
[1] [https://www.anses.fr/en/content/led-%E2%80%93-light-
emitting...](https://www.anses.fr/en/content/led-%E2%80%93-light-emitting-
diodes)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminance#Health_effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminance#Health_effects)
[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11992946](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11992946)
------
amelius
What is its size and weight? How long does it fly?
Edit: I watched the video without sound.
~~~
Someone
Both drone and lights last for about 10 minutes, according to the voice on the
video (about 35 seconds in)
------
joepater
wait, do you mean 1000 lumens?
------
gnipgnip
A Servo ? Some reason for why a relay wasn't used ?
~~~
Raed667
The only time I used a servo to flip a switch was because I was too lazy to
modify a completed set-up.
------
photogrammetry
Hate to say it, but the narrator's sticky, overly glossal voice is painful to
listen to.
------
ommunist
Brilliant work, just awesome amount of skill and attitude in action. Mind the
app for LED control interface.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An Alternative to Required API Keys - EzGraphs
http://www.jamesward.com/2013/07/29/an-alternative-to-required-api-keys
======
ProblemFactory
One good bit of advice I have seen for people who are just starting out with
publishing an API: require a "developer email" parameter in the request
instead of API key.
Yes, it could be spoofed or faked. But:
* You can detect honest, accidental excessive usage and follow up by email,
* You can block new email addresses but keep the API up for existing users if hit by a randomised bot,
* You can follow up with developers, and interview them to see what they are using the API for,
* There is an obvious way to get in touch with developers to tell them about API changes,
* And you can start out with this by just logging requests to a database/file/cache, without building a full "developer portal".
~~~
junto
Good idea, but it does have one failing.
When an API key has been compromised (e.g. a developer leaves the company on
bad terms), it is much easier to change a randomly generated API key without
impacting anything else. Changing an email address is a hassle for the
developer, should you need to revoke the 'key' due to misuse by a third party.
Also, this should be obvious, but many people forget to use a secure transport
for their APIs, which then leaks private information, such as API keys and
other HTTP headers parameters whilst being sent over the wire. SSL is a _must_
for APIs.
~~~
ProblemFactory
Once the API gets to the stage where you need authentication, access controls,
blocking access, proper rate-limiting or billing, you have outgrown the "email
address in request" method. After all, the abuser might not be a former
developer, but anyone in the world who knows your email address.
But for a first experimental API, it's much better than having _no_ info on
who your users are besides an IP address pointing to AWS. And logging API
requests to a text file and doing analytics manually with grep is much faster
than setting up developer accounts.
~~~
junto
Indeed, for experimental early stage APIs this is a good idea, where some info
is better than none.
------
TillE
> Rate limiting is one approach but it is easily gamed.
Is it? Simple IP-based rate limiting seems quite effective to all but the most
determined abuser.
~~~
lazyjones
> _Simple IP-based rate limiting seems quite effective to all but the most
> determined abuser._
Most (noticeable) abusers are quite determined. They will try Tor, then
various anonymizer proxies (forcing you to block all of them or give up), then
sometimes Amazon EC2 instances or other VPS, or large public proxies / ISP
proxies that you cannot block. In Germany, they can also use cheap DSL where
they can switch to new IP addresses almost instantaneously (T-Online is a
godsend for abusers/scrapers).
~~~
dubcanada
What's to stop them from creating a bit that creates API keys every 5 minutes?
~~~
iaskwhy
A delay on the API key generation or approval?
------
martin-adams
To me it seems like hanging would be more of a deterrent than failing requests
as developers could simply retry a request on a simulated failure.
Some developers could even try to fire multiple requests and use the fastest
one, effectively reducing the failure rate to the app.
It an interesting problem to solve. The one that I would like to see a
solution on is allowing end users interact directly with a third party service
without exposing the API key or requiring the to do any authentication.
~~~
jsharpe
Another approach to discourage use in production would be to randomly return
incorrect or garbled data. It's still easy to use for learning, but would lead
to embarrassing errors or omissions if used for something real.
~~~
martin-adams
Maybe, but that would just result in less trust in quality of the service.
Which errors and hangs would do also.
I'd rather see simulated data if it's purely for development purposes. You
would have far more control over the conditions you need to test.
------
onion2k
If you're trying to put people off abusing it, wouldn't randomly failing make
the situation worse? People will just code apps to try the request again until
it doesn't. It'd be like inviting people to DDoS your API. So long as the
display bit is asynchronous then the user will just see a spinner until it's
worked and the results are sent across.
------
chiph
_Required keys make it much harder for developers to learn new things._
Really? You fill out a form, click submit, get your key via email soon after.
Or at worst, the following Monday. IMO, that's not a lot of friction.
~~~
pavel_lishin
> Or at worst, the following Monday.
For someone just starting out, having to wait the entire weekend that you
planned to use for studying is pretty much a dead end.
~~~
btgeekboy
Tell that to the Google Cast team. Saturday morning: "Hmm, how does this stuff
work? Oh, I've got to get a key..." Monday night, 11PM: "Here's your key!"
------
moron4hire
how hard is it to run a second, smaller server for "learning" that doesn't get
rate limited but also doesn't have full access? Maybe it even only has access
to a fake data set, no real data.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
With the coronavirus seemingly tamed, China’s economy starts to recover - partingshots
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/business/china-economy-coronavirus.html
======
sacks2k
It's not 'tamed'.
China stopped testing ages ago and has censored anyone questioning the current
government's narrative (and has arrested doctors, medical professionals, and
random people on WeChat).
This is one of the problems with comparing Covid statistics between countries.
The US, for instance, counts a death as 'Covid' if they died of some other
cause, but had Covid symptoms. In other countries, these aren't counted. it's
not just Covid stats where this is a problem. Crime stats are calculated in
completely different ways in different countries and used as ammo in political
discussions.
The US has been continuing to test, so our numbers are going to go up as more
cases are detected. Countries like Iran, China, Vietnam, and Mexico aren't
really doing any sort of testing besides spot checking.
These numbers are being used to politically crucify the current
administration, when it's a completely disingenuous comparison.
On top of all of this, the Covid death rate per-capita of the US is one of the
lowest in the world. Too many people don't understand why you can't directly
compare a country like South Korea (population: 50 million) and the US
(population 350 million).
Here is a good link from Johns Hopkins:
[https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality](https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality)
The US is at the low end of Covid death rates. I don't trust Iran on this
chart, because it's already pretty well known they have been lying about their
numbers.
~~~
oefrha
> China stopped testing ages ago
You seem to be pulling this out of your ar*e, since it is inconsistent with
all U.S. reporting I’ve seen as well as second hand knowledge from
acquaintances in China (in and out of Wuhan/Hubei), including medical
professionals.
According to aforementioned sources, tests are administered for anyone who
either show any symptom or are hospitalized for any reason. Some companies
apparently also require testing — which is widely available now — before
resuming work (reported by NYT[1], haven’t been able to confirm this myself).
Recently a new cluster was discovered in Wuhan, and now they’re planning to
test all 11 million residents.[1] I checked with two acquaintances in Wuhan
(only got two, so unfortunately can’t provide a fuller picture), and this is
apparently already underway, with one of them tested yesterday and one
scheduled for tomorrow.
[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/world/asia/coronavirus-
te...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/world/asia/coronavirus-testing-
china-wuhan.html)
~~~
sacks2k
"You seem to be pulling this out of your ar*e, since it is inconsistent with
all U.S. reporting"
China had no new Coronavirus cases for an entire month and even before this,
it was very few. With its population density, number of people, and how fast
the virus spreads, this is scientifically impossible.
Either nobody is being tested during this time, the tests aren't accurate, or
the numbers are a complete lie. All are just as bad and don't prove that China
has anything 'tamed'.
The article you linked to was from yesterday. They have only just started
announcing new testing again because of the bad global press and now the
numbers are increasing again.
I would also look at your sources. Many US news sites have large funding from
the Chinese government. Hell, the WHO won't allow Taiwan at the assembly and
actively ignored them when they were contacted about the virus in
December...which would have saved many lives and prevented the potential
global disaster we now have today.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: SpotDy – Analytics for Government - sumithad
https://spotdy.com
======
gafgarian
I think design wise the site looks great but I am still confused about what it
is you do. Don't get me wrong, the website does its job. I want to know more.
But the constant stream of "cutting edge technologies" jargon is vague and
even the features pages don't really go into detail.
Who do you perceive as your primary user base? Perhaps it would help to have
sample screenshots or a demo of the data available.
------
rbinv
Nothing too serious, but you should properly resize those logos in the footer
(keep aspect ratios).
~~~
mkagenius
Yes, the companies logos are not in aspect ratio, it wouldn't harm to re-do
the AAP logo yourself and use a polished one instead of the edgy.
~~~
sumithad
agree with the logo comments. we will fix that soon.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A World Without Strings Is Chaos - lelf
http://beyondloom.com/blog/strings.html
======
Thiez
I wonder how many of the solutions would still work for arbitrary unicode
strings. It looks like the author assumes only ascii exists. Perhaps the
interns would be better off if they were taught that "reverse a string" is a
fundamentally dangerous (and pointless) operation in almost any real-life
context. Strings are way more complex than people give them credit for.
~~~
togs
It’s not clear to me why reversing a string is dangerous or pointless.
~~~
bastawhiz
An array of characters reversed loses the original meaning of the characters.
Other than looking for palindromes, there's almost nothing in the way of
practical uses of a reversed string that can't be accomplished by subscripting
the string and iterating from the end to the beginning.
~~~
catlifeonmars
I found this little gem on Software engineering StackExchange:
[https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/2469...](https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/24691/what-
do-you-use-string-reversal-for)
Suffice it to say, there are many interesting uses for string reversal :)
~~~
bastawhiz
Interesting, but questionably useful. If you're converting integer bases or
obfuscating email addresses, there are much better approaches that don't
involve a bad hack
------
jodrellblank
Dyalog APL:
0 - Multiplicity (count character)
'h'(+/=)'fhqwhgads'
1 - Trapeze Part (palindrome)
(⊢≡⌽)'racecar'
2 - chars which appear more than once
(not too happy with my Key ⌸ ones)
{k←{⍺,⍨1<≢⍵}⌸⍵ ⋄ k[;1]/k[;2]} 'applause'
3 - reordered letters
'teapot'{⍺[⍋⍺]≡⍵[⍋⍵]}'toptea'
≡/(⊂∘⍋⌷⊢)¨'teapot' 'toptea'
4 - chars which appear once
{k←{⍺,⍨1=≢⍵}⌸⍵ ⋄ k[;1]/k[;2]} 'somewhat heterogenous'
5 - musical chars
'barfoo' {∨/⍺≡⍤1⊢⍵⌽⍤0 1⍨⍳≢⍵} 'foobar'
6 - sort strings by length, ascending
{⍵[⍋≢¨⍵]} 'books' 'apple' 'peanut' 'aardvark' 'melon' 'pie'
((⊂∘⍋(≢¨⊢))⌷⊢) 'books' 'apple' 'peanut' 'aardvark' 'melon' 'pie'
7 - Most frequent character
{k←{⍺,≢⍵}⌸⍵ ⋄ ⊃k[;1][⍋k[;2]]} 'abdbbac'
8 - reverse words
{⊃{⍺,' ',⍵}/⌽¨' '((~=)⊆⊢)⍵} 'a few words in a sentence'
9 - compress
1 0 0 1 0 1/'foobar'
10 - expand
1 0 0 1 0 1 {'_'@(⍸~⍺)⍺\⍵} 'fbr'
11 - Consonants
{'_'@(⍸'AEIOUYaeiouy'∊⍨⍵)⊢⍵} 'FLAPJACKS'
12 - Consonants Rdx
{⍵/⍨~'AEIOUYaeiouy'∊⍨⍵} 'FLAPJACKS'
13 - Word replace
⍸'a few words in a sentence' {idx←⍸⍵⍷⍺ ⋄ idx,←idx+¨⍳¯1+≢⍵ ⋄ 'x'@idx⊢⍺} 'words'
14 - Permutations
? a recursive one shouldn't be so hard, but..
{0=≢⍵:'' ⋄ ... } 'xyz'
non-recursive, much harder:
https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Doc/Articles/Play202
~~~
xelxebar
Nice! Here are some J solutions. Unfortunately, I only have time for a few,
right now. Hopefully, I can add some more later:
'mississippi' +/@:= 's' NB. 0 - Multiplicity
(-:|.) 'racecar' NB. 1 - Trapeze Part
(~. #~ 1 < +/@|:@=) 'applause' NB. 2 - Duplicity
'teapot' -:&({~/:) 'toptea' NB. 3 - Sort Yourself Out
(~. #~ 1 = +/@|:@=) 'foo bar' NB. 4 - Precious Snowflakes
~~~
xelxebar
Just for posterity, here are the rest I came up with:
'foobar' (e. ] A.~ +/@(!@i.@- *&|: >:@i.@- $&> i.)@#) 'barfoo' NB. 5 - Musical Chars
(/: #&>) 'books';'apple';'peanut';'aardvark';'melon';'pie' NB. 6 - Size Matters
(~. #~ [: (= >./) +/@|:@=) 'abdbbac' NB. 7 - Popularity Contest
|.&.>&.;: 'a few words in a sentence' NB. 8 - esreveR A ecnetneS
'foobar' #~ 1 0 0 1 0 1 NB. 9 - Compression Session
'fbr' [`(I.@])`($&'_'@#@])} 1 0 0 1 0 1 NB. 10 - Expansion Mansion
'_'&(I.@e.&'AIUEOaiueo'@]}) 'FLAPJACKS' NB. 11 - C_ns_n_nts
-.&'AIUEOaiueo' 'FLAPJACKS' NB. 12 - Cnsnnts Rdx
'one fish two fish' [`($&'X'@#&.>@[)@.e."0 _&.;: 'fish' NB. 13 - TITLE REDACTED
(A.~ i.@!@#) 'xyz' NB. 14 - It's More Fun to Permute
Note that 14 is trivially non-recursive. I am fairly happy with these
solutions, especially 5 and 13 which took the most thought.
------
kazinator
This is the TXR Lisp interactive listener of TXR 233.
Quit with :quit or Ctrl-D on empty line. Ctrl-X ? for cheatsheet.
1> (countq #\h "fhqwhgads")
2
2> [[callf equal identity reverse] "palindrome"]
nil
3> [[callf equal identity reverse] "racecar"]
t
4> [(opip (mappend [iff (op > (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) uniq) "applause"]
"ap"
5> [(opip (mappend [iff (op > (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) uniq) "foo"]
"o"
6> [(opip (mappend [iff (op > (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) uniq) "baz"]
""
7> [[mapf equal sort sort] "teapot" "toptea"]
t
8> [[mapf equal identity sort] "apple" "elap"]
nil
9> [(op mappend [iff (op eql (countq @1 @@1) 1) list] @1) "somewhat heterogeneous"]
"mwa rgnu"
10> [(do and (= (len @1) (len @2)) (search-str `@2@2` @1)) "foobar" "barfoo"]
3
11> [(do and (= (len @1) (len @2)) (search-str `@2@2` @1)) "fboaro" "foobar"]
nil
12> [sort '#"books apple peanut aardvark melon pie" : len]
("pie" "books" "apple" "melon" "peanut" "aardvark")
Yawn ...
13> (perm "xyz") ;; non-recursive, lazy, written in C.
("xyz" "xzy" "yxz" "yzx" "zxy" "zyx")
~~~
kazinator
Erratum:
8> [[mapf equal identity sort] "apple" "elap"]
nil
Should be:
... sort sort ...
------
perl4ever
I was thinking I really need to research how to efficiently deal with strings
in a certain language that doesn't allow them to be accessed as arrays of
characters. Because then I could get started on porting some C code to it.
~~~
swsieber
Ha ha. Rust? I suppose it depends on the context of what you're trying to do.
Edit: if it is Rust most of the time you'll want to use character
iterators/map/filter/etc. Then benchmark.
~~~
trevyn
The Rust docs have good sections on this:
[https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch08-02-strings.html](https://doc.rust-
lang.org/book/ch08-02-strings.html)
[https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/primitive.char.html](https://doc.rust-
lang.org/std/primitive.char.html)
TLDR you _can_ straightforwardly access as bytes, or iterate as "Unicode
scalar values" as stored in the 4-byte "char" type.
(But a "Unicode scalar value" is not exactly equal to the colloquial meaning
of "character".)
However: If you care about valid UTF-8 inputs not breaking the function or
intent of your code, it's probably time to understand the problems Unicode is
actually trying to address, and apply those considerations to what you're
trying to do. :)
------
enriquto
I hate string processing. Is there any widely used programming language that
_does not_ support strings? I mean, you can do all of math, scientific
computing, and graphics without strings. Forcing your language to support
strings will inevitably impose compromises that make the language worse when
you do not need them. I want such a language, unencumbered by the intrinsic
uglyness of strings.
~~~
bryal
Futhark has only the most basic string support -- string literal syntax, which
which is just sugar for a utf-8 byte array. It's a functional array language
that generates fast GPU code, and as a GPU program is essentially a pure
function (no input/output), string handling is very much a secondary concern.
Futhark is used exactly for math, scientific computing, and graphics, and not
for strings.
------
Tokkemon
That is an absolutely delightful Mouse Hunt reference I wasn't expecting
today.
------
rambojazz
Can somebody explain the title to me? This is just a collection of puzzles.
~~~
MaxBarraclough
It's a reference to a quote from the 1997 film _Mouse Hunt_.
[https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/MouseHunt_(film)#Lars_Smuntz](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/MouseHunt_\(film\)#Lars_Smuntz)
------
m4r35n357
Physicists will be disappointed ;)
~~~
symplee
And orchestras...
~~~
tartoran
And solo guitarists too.
~~~
soneca
And puppeteers
~~~
tartoran
Oh, I forgot about politics..
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Real odds of making a living off a web app - nicholas73
My goal is to make a webapp that makes a middle class income. It does not have to be Bay Area middle class, but say 100k a year.<p>What is the real probability this can happen? Or is it a fool's errand?<p>I'm from a non-software field in my 30's, but I'm tired of grinding it out with a salary that can barely cover the expenses. I'd like to work remotely and live somewhere more affordable.<p>I don't expect anything to happen right away, but over the next 5 years. Because I don't see myself saving my way to retirement, owning a business where you control your time is the only end game I can see.<p>I like building apps and take pride in my work, so it seems like a good avenue for me.<p>Thanks.
======
MattBearman
I hope it's not a fools errand, as I'm currently attempting to do just this. I
have a SaaS product that currently profits about £400/ month, and I have about
£20k saved. I'm aiming to be living from my web app in 9 months.
If you're interested I'm doing a completely transparent blog series about my
progress - [https://blog.bugmuncher.com/2015/10/22/from-side-project-
to-...](https://blog.bugmuncher.com/2015/10/22/from-side-project-to-
profitable-start-up-part-1.html) and
[https://blog.bugmuncher.com/2015/10/22/from-side-project-
to-...](https://blog.bugmuncher.com/2015/10/22/from-side-project-to-
profitable-start-up-part-2.html)
~~~
baobaba
Hi Matt, the second link gives me a 404, but loving the honest writing in the
"I'm Scared" post.
~~~
MattBearman
Ah balls, here's the correct link
[https://blog.bugmuncher.com/2015/10/29/from-side-project-
to-...](https://blog.bugmuncher.com/2015/10/29/from-side-project-to-
profitable-start-up-part-2.html)
~~~
swcoders
could you please tell us suspense or do we have to wait for other month? :)
------
akg_67
> I'm tired of grinding it out with a salary that can barely cover the
> expenses
> owning a business where you control your time is the only end game I can
> see.
I will encourage you to read first 4-5 chapters of "The E-Myth Revisited: Why
Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It" by Michael E.
Gerber.
“The problem is that everybody who goes into business is actually three-
people-in-one: The Entrepreneur, The Manager, and The Technician.
And the problem is compounded by the fact that while each of these
personalities wants to be the boss, none of them wants to have a boss.
So they start a business together in order to get rid of the boss. And the
conflict begins.”
Excerpt From: Michael E. Gerber. “The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small
Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It.” iBooks.
~~~
brbsix
Great suggestion. This was one of the first books I read as I was starting a
business many years ago. It proved invaluable. For anyone not familiar with
it, a big focus of the book is about running your business like a franchise.
Don't let the word franchise put you off... The reason this is so crucial is
that like you mentioned, you don't want to create a bunch of new jobs for
yourself. Rather, you want a finely-tuned system that runs itself and frees up
your mind for the more important aspects. If you don't do that, you'll be
spinning your wheels with little stuff and won't be able to step away from it.
~~~
atmosx
Better be good! I ordered the book right away.
ty for the suggestion.
------
thenomad
Do you specifically want to make a webapp, or is independence the most
important thing for you?
If the latter, I'd encourage you to look around at ALL the potential means of
making money with your skills, not just creating a webapp. That could include
consulting, infoproducts, some kind of SEO / affiliate play, training, etc.
Of all the available means of making a boss-independent living on the
Internet, webapps appear to be one of the slightly harder ones. By no means
impossible, mind - it's nothing like trying to make a living from the arts,
for example. There are plenty of people on and off HN who have done it.
However, depending on your skillset, there may be more straightforward ways.
~~~
nicholas73
At minimum, I would like something growing in my asset column, since saving
enough to buy stocks or real estate seems unrealistic at this point[1]. So I
have to create my own assets.
If I have to be extremely active in it, like consulting or training, then I'd
just be creating another job for myself. I'd be less interested in that, as
the goal is for asset growth.
Why is making a webapp slightly harder? The technical aspect, or are
opportunities saturated, or the many hats you have to wear?
[1] I'm in the Bay Area with family. Alternatively, I can try to switch to
software engineering for better pay, which is also one of the potential
payoffs of building web apps.
~~~
thenomad
My best guess on webapps vs, say, infoproducts is that there's more avenues
for failure in a webapp.
With an infoproduct, you've basically got:
1) Screwed up your market research, no market. 2) Screwed up your marketing,
no-one hears about you. 3) Screwed up the content, problem obvious.
With a webapp, you've got all sorts of design and usability issues. Features
are non-obvious even once you've got the core value proposition down. Viral
loop is trickier to engineer. Onboarding is a thing. And so on.
But that's just my guess.
------
codegeek
Short answer: Absolutely. Why ? Because many people are already doing it
(including me).
It all comes down to the path you take to get there. The destination is
totally possible. The path will determine whether you are able to get there or
not.
Write down 5 of your best ideas on paper or wherever. Then leave it for a few
days. If you think of a new idea someday, go back to that old list and check
if that idea was already something you wrote before. Give it an extra point.
Rinse and repeat until you realize that you keep coming back to one idea more
than others. Pick that one. Of course, you could already believe strongly in
an idea and then you don't ned to do all this.
Next step is to build a prototype of this idea. If you can build a web app
yourself, then do it using the language/framework you are comfortable with. DO
NOT think about whether this is the right language/framework. IT DOES NOT
MATTER AT THIS TIME. Heck, use Wordpress to patch a bare minimum working
prototype if you really need to. But you need to get something out there.
Something that is not in your head but something concrete. It does not have to
be pretty or slick. Trust me. The other side of it is that you will NEVER
release something and that is worse than releasing garbage.
Work on getting traction on this. I don't know how to tell you every possible
way to achieve this as this is where the real challenge is.
Once you get decent enough traction, then you can choose to quit your job if
you can afford to do that. Save, save save. If you want to have another
partner/help, think about getting that person on board. Or may be you want to
remain solo. that is fine for the type of business you asked about.
Then you know what comes next ?Just fuckin quit your job!! I did that. Yes,
you can do that. There will NEVER be a right time to do it. If you are ready,
you are ready. Otherwise you are never ready. Don't think about what you will
lose by quitting your job. That is small compared to what you may be gaining.
But be ready to lose it all. Have that spirit. You will do fine.
All the best.
~~~
nicholas73
Thanks, this is what I wanted to hear. I'm at the prototyping stage, and I was
afraid that the market is already saturated with webapps. Or worse, was never
that big a space as it would seem on HN.
~~~
codegeek
np. Remember this. There is always someone else doing what you are doing. You
should never worry about that. Just execute the heck out of it. Yes there are
to may webapps but to be able to create 100K income is very possible.
Remember, we are not talking about a high growth startup which is a different
story.
------
mswen
The secret is sales and getting those first few clients. I have built a web
application for professional and trade associations. I used to be Director of
Research at an executive community with high annual fees - so I was building
for a market that I had some direct experience in.
So far it has been much harder to get association leaders to change and try
something new. I have feedback that it is cool and a premium product relative
to what they currently do, but so far no one with money has gotten excited
enough to actually buy.
On the other hand there are certainly people who have made your vision happen.
If I had better answers I would have already solved my own sales problems.
Bringing innovation to a market is hard.
~~~
nicholas73
I've also have a "think different" idea, so I expect the sales part to be the
challenge as well.
------
helen842000
This journey is made easier by looking and speaking to customers first before
you build anything. For people that just enjoy building apps, that is really
hard to do. If you don't want to sell to people now, you won't when you have
an MVP either.
Find a group of founding customers so you are building something specific
based on their feedback. Your motivation and profitability are accelerated by
having such involved customers.
You can investigate such a large number of ideas before you have to start
building anything.
------
fooshint
How much do you have in savings? 5 figures, 6 figures?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Should I incorporate my new company? - taurenk
I started a project on the side and would like to release it to the world for use - charging users a tiny fee to use the service.<p>My question is - do I now need to file for a business name, Corporation vs LLC, or any legal things? This is my first time releasing a service/product and have no idea where to start, can any one assist me?
======
tptacek
I'm not a lawyer, but I think you should (a) get an LLC, and (b) not spend
real (meaning: hundreds of dollars) money on it. You can get a DE LLC online
about as easily as you can order a book from Amazon.
The LLC allows you to enter into contracts as your firm and not you yourself.
If any arrangement you enter into ever blows up and threatens you with tens of
thousands in liabilities, the company eats it, not your home equity. If you're
savvy at negotiating, you can even get some of your overhead expenses (rent,
Internet) in the LLC's name, so if the firm dies you're not on the hook.
Having an LLC also makes it possible for you to do business-to-business
transactions with big companies. Consultant friends of mine have learned that
invoicing a bigco as a sole proprietorship is likely to end up with that bigco
withholding taxes, or worse, severing the contract altogether.
The reason not to spend money now is that contract liability protection is
really the only thing an LLC is getting you. Most of what you're spending
legal dollars on with a new company has to do with equity allocation. With
neither partners nor investors, there's no reason to get that stuff nailed
down perfectly. In fact, should you ever raise a round, chances are you're
going to rip all your current incorporation stuff up anyways.
~~~
lsllc
I am also not a lawyer, but unless O.P. is in DE, he/she will almost certainly
have to register as a "foreign entity doing business" in his/her home state
despite being registered in DE. In many states, this is about as expensive as
simply registering the LLC there in the first place. Some states (such as NY)
have somewhat byzantine requirements such as having to publish the application
for your foreign (or even native) LLC in two local papers.
But otherwise, an LLC is the way to go; you might however want to elect to
have the LLC taxed as an S-corp so you don't get taxed twice.
~~~
pw
Diddo. My understanding is if you're doing an LLC, you should just do it in
the state you're operating in not Delaware.
------
pzxc
You're familiar with the term "premature optimization", right?
Don't bother forming a corporation, renting office space, or even making
business cards when you don't have any customers or revenue.
It's perfectly acceptable, and the recommended approach, to simply operate as
a Sole Proprietorship (no legal entity for the business, just self-employed
income for you) until you have a REASON to form a corporation -- things like,
to mitigate liability, to hire employees, to take on investors, etc.
As a sole proprietorship, you can still do business under a company name -
this is called DBA, "doing business as". So if you go to get a business bank
account, for example, you can open the account under the name "Firstname
Lastname DBA MyCoolInternetCompany". You can also get an EIN or TPIN (employer
ID number, taxpayer ID number) from the IRS without an official business
entity.
Later on, once you have customers and revenue, you can then form an LLC for a
few hundred bucks depending on which state you are in. You can do this first,
of course, before actually starting your business and getting
revenue/customers, and many people do -- but it's a common mistake for new
entrepreneurs to focus on the fun/exciting stuff like making business cards
etc instead of the boring but critical stuff like, you know, actually making
money.
~~~
taurenk
Thanks for the advice! When I file for DBA, lets say "cool internet company",
is it best to get the business bank account, EIN, etc? Or can I just skip this
step?
~~~
patio11
The chief reasons to get a business bank account are a) if you're going to
invoice larger companies it will make getting payments rather easier (you
appear to not be doing this) and b) it makes it marginally easier to segregate
business and personal finances, which will simplify your tax compliance.
I didn't have a separate business bank account for, hmm, ~7 years. It is
skippable.
~~~
taurenk
I think I may go the business bank account route though, it seems to
complicate things less...and hey maybe my service will be a success : )
Thanks again for the advice
------
martinflack
I would urge you to find a local lawyer that handles incorporation. Most small
law firms will do a one-hour introductory consultation for free where you can
get professional advice. They can explain properly the various choices and
what that means for your situation specifically.
------
actraub
It really depends on your product, what you are doing, etc. pzxc is right, do
prematurely optimize. You also need to decide if you have any serious
liability. Is it just you are do you have any partners...
How to start a startup legal lecture
[http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec18/](http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec18/)
How to file in delaware
[http://corp.delaware.gov/howtoform.shtml](http://corp.delaware.gov/howtoform.shtml)
Types of companies [http://www.bizfilings.com/learn/compare-company-
types.aspx](http://www.bizfilings.com/learn/compare-company-types.aspx)
------
cylinder
Operate as a sole prop (report income on Schedule C) until you make serious
money (really $75k+/yr). If you have substantial assets to worry about
protecting from liability, then it's worth it to do a proper LLC or corp.
------
relaunched
Without knowing what you are doing, I would say this is an ounce of prevention
vs. a pound of cure problem.
Limiting your liability by setting up an LLC, or other liability-limiting
entity, is worth the peace of mind, at least it is for me.
------
logn
For a C-corp you'd be in over your head trying to meet all the requirements to
stay legal. And it's totally not needed unless you have investors. An LLC in
your home state is easy and probably about $100. But it's also not needed
unless you expect substantial income--because the only way to actually limit
liability is to separate personal finances from business. Probably with an LLC
you'd end up filing a tax return where you merge business income into your
personal income, so there's not really a tax reason then.
In summary, if spending $100 is no sweat, sure get an LLC.
\--not a lawyer--
------
chadkruse
For those suggesting an LLC for liability protection purposes, just a quick
note to be careful here. Depending on your state, a single-member LLC might
not actually provide any legal protection. For those interested, do a quick
search for "piercing the corporate veil".
tl;dr the courts may see through the LLC "veil", determine the "company" is
really just you, and may stick you with any liabilities/debts.
------
saluki
Initially I would start out as a Sole Proprietorship, you can get an EIN
number in your business name so you don't have to provide your SSN when
working with companies who will be sending you a 1099.
Once you gain traction or see you have revenue growing then form an LLC . . .
I would only form a corp if you take on investment or your accountant
recommends it.
------
debacle
Do you have any assets? If your personal net worth is 20k+, I would form an
LLC. It's relatively painless, depending on which state you file in, and the
cost isn't ridiculous.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
From “To Do” to “Will Do”: Using the Case Method to Defeat Procrastination - da5e
http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/07/30/from-to-do-to-will-do-using-the-case-method-to-defeat-procrastination/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+StudyHacks+%28Study+Hacks%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
======
orangechicken
It sounds like "find the story of someone who personifies what you want to
accomplish, figure out how they accomplished what they did, then base your
process on their approach" is just one more roadblock to progress you can use
to divert yourself and continue procrastinating. It's another "I simply MUST
do this before I do the thing I want to do."
It makes sense in my brain (evolutionary procrastination, etc), but it would
certainly keep me from getting things done.
------
glimcat
My problem is usually "what to do" or "how to do." Psyching yourself out won't
help if you're not sure what needs doing or if you don't think that the
available actions will actually contribute to the goal.
~~~
Alex3917
The solution to this is to write down the three most important things you need
to get done the next day the night before. C.f. also The Power Of Less.
------
gte910h
I always found "The Now Habits" redefining what you have to do to what you
choose to do very helpful.
~~~
orangechicken
Also useful for keeping up with the current trends in nun fashion! Thanks for
the reminder to renew my subscription.
~~~
gte910h
Go back to reddit mr punthread
------
blatherard
tldr: Find a role model and emulate.
~~~
brandoncor
Though the reasons he recommends emulating a role model aren't that obvious.
It's a hack to beat procrastination by making you more confident in your plan.
Since the same plan was used successfully by someone else, you're more likely
to stick with it. It seems like the quality of the plan isn't what matters,
but that it actually worked at least once. A plan you've come up with on your
own is unproven, so is more susceptible to procrastination.
------
kachnuv_ocasek
Yeah, sure, another method of curing procrastination. Making the situation
even worse in fact.
------
mechnik
Erez Lieberman who inspired Cal Newport latest 'stop procrastination' method
is a hero.
------
mkramlich
I have a less convoluted way of beating procrastination: just do it!
Because if it's important enough to you you'll make it happen. If you don't,
you don't, and perhaps it was not meant to be because there's something you
lack. Excuses can be endless and fractal if you dissect them enough. Just make
it happen. And once you do, you may find it satisfying enough in comparison
that you'll be more likely to take initiative again in the future, creating a
virtuous circle. But in short:
Just do it!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Australia's leading newspapers black out front pages to protest restrictions - DoreenMichele
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/21/australias-leading-newspapers-black-out-front-pages-protest-governmental-media-restrictions/
======
DATACOMMANDER
I nodded in agreement while reading the article with one major exception: I
don’t like the idea of changing defamation law to be more journalist-friendly.
Yes to more government transparency; a big no to making it even easier for the
media to get away with libel.
------
hilbert42
Not far from where I once lived was a park, along two of its sides ran two
busy roads which intersected at right angles and at this intersection is a set
of traffic lights. The park was isolated from both roads by a high six-foot-
plus fence made from grey concrete Besser blocks so every time a motorist had
to stop at the lights he/she only had to look sideways to view this large
swathe of concrete fencing. As anyone would know, this is the ideal place for
graffiti to appear and this was no exception.
Anyway, for some 10 to 15 years, a large message remained scrawled and
unaltered on the wall right near the lights—no one could miss seeing it. It
read:
_" The Australian people are bloody-minded sheep!"_
For years as I passed it, I was always amazed at and wondered why no one had
ever bothered to paint over the offensive graffiti until I eventually figured
out why—which was that everyone knew or suspected that the message was
true—and that the sign had remained there unaltered as a perverse reminder of
the fact. Unfortunately, the park has given away to housing development so all
that's now gone (and I also regret never having taken a photo of the
graffiti).
This is not the place to delve deeply into the machinations of Australian
society or draw parallels with 'bloody-minded sheep' except to say that
largely Australians are deeply conservative by nature, intellectually shallow
and very risk-averse people. They rarely riot in the streets—the last time of
any note was during the anti Vietnam War demos in the late 1960s—their
interest in politics only goes as deep as their hip pockets and most would
prefer to gel-out at the beach, sporting fixtures or watch TV, or nowadays be
numbed-out or dumbed-down by Facebook/social media.
Thus, when it comes to matters of security, all the Government has to do is to
mention words like 'threat', 'terror' or security etc. and it can pass overly
authoritarian laws in a moment without any debate or opposition—right, the
opposition Labor Party is even more draconian about the introduction of such
laws so they fly through parliament like a shot. The police and security
services are onto a winner and have been so for decades.
The few of us who can actually see what's happening and are worried are so
vastly outnumbered we haven't a snowball's chance of changing anything.
Frankly, it's a pretty terrible (and pathetic—even embarrassing) situation and
I don't ever see it being resolved until well after the Australian 'Sheep'
have realized it's too late for them to escape the boiling water.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Giving away my Startup - philiplindblom
Hey everyone.<p>Programmer/designer guy here who has due lack of motivation determined to give away an entire future company. (Although I will require a ~10% ownership of any legal entity you setup, but I'm willing to make that negotiable.)<p>I figure it'd be a nice thing to try, cause there's (in my mind) nothing wrong with the idea or the execution. I'd really like to see it fly!<p>But after 10 years of constant, excruciating grind – I have decided to make some life changes.<p>The app, called Trotter is for those on the move to 'Feel at home, wherever they are'.<p>The current state of things:
The app was built from May 2017 - December 2017. Launched in iOS App Store December 2017.<p>It's currently hidden in App Store and all servers and services are switched off.<p>Here's a look at the app and it's features.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIycb4bLRk&feature=youtu.be<p>In terms of revenue model,
Users can contact up to 10 new users per day. After that it costs $x for 10 more.<p>I would like to add though that I won't give it away to give it away to anyone but to the person or group I deem most suitable in terms of ability to grow and nurture it.<p>I will not be taking an operative role in any future operation. At all. I want to make that perfectly clear.<p>Any questions,
Let me know!
/Philip<p>[email protected]
======
CyberFonic
Have you generated any revenue at all?
Perhaps you could ask for royalty instead of equity. It would effectively be
the same revenue to you, but with less contractual complications.
Good luck! This is a very interesting proposition. Perhaps you could let HNers
know how it works out down the track.
~~~
philiplindblom
Certainly, royalties is an interesting idea.
Nope, the app has not generated any revenue, I went on Christmas holiday the
day after the app went live in App Store
0% of the growth strategy have been executed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hacker News categorizer with MonkeyLearn - eudox
http://hackernews.demos.monkeylearn.com/
We used MonkeyLearn to train a machine learning categorizer with categories like `programming`, `business`, `science`, and downloaded samples from relevant sub-reddits to do the training.<p>The plot at the top shows you the distribution of categories for each hour, and you can filter the news by category.<p>The actual classifier is public so anyone can use it: https://app.monkeylearn.com/accounts/login/?next=/categorizer/projects/cl_GLSChuJQ/<p>Every five minutes the app polls the HN API to categorize the latest submissions.
======
eudox
We used MonkeyLearn to train a machine learning categorizer with categories
like `programming`, `business`, `science`, and downloaded samples from
relevant sub-reddits to do the training.
The plot at the top shows you the distribution of categories for each hour,
and you can filter the news by category.
The actual classifier is public so anyone can use it with a free MonkeyLearn
account:
[https://app.monkeylearn.com/accounts/login/?next=/categorize...](https://app.monkeylearn.com/accounts/login/?next=/categorizer/projects/cl_GLSChuJQ/)
Every five minutes the app polls the HN API to categorize the latest
submissions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ajax: A New Approach to Web Applications - tosh
http://adaptivepath.org/ideas/ajax-new-approach-web-applications/
======
grzm
(2005)
------
GrumpyNl
Anyone here on HN tested this?
~~~
GrumpyNl
This comment was made under an other article.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Deeplearn.js (Google) – Harness the Power of Machine Learning in Your Browser - yairhaimo
https://research.googleblog.com/2017/08/harness-power-of-machine-learning-in.html
======
wdroz
"This device is not yet supported"
more like Deeplearn_chrome_only.js
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Who You Calling a Techie? - michaelschade
http://www.boomcalifornia.com/2014/06/who-you-calling-a-techie/
======
dictum
> When I tell pretty much anyone outside the tech industry I work at a start-
> up, there’s usually a pause. I can watch her compose her face, waiting to
> hear the worst. If I’m lucky, I’ll field questions about foie gras burgers,
> daily massages, or what it’s like to work with a bunch of clueless bros.
I'm still reading the article, but I'd like to write this while my mind is
still fresh on this sentence. I'd started writing a longer pondered comment,
but ultimately reduced my thoughts to this:
If your interlocutor can't see anything past the wacky aspects of your job or
interest, perhaps the problem is on them. Sometimes a display of ignorance
masquerades as cynical, truth-to-power rebelliousness.
—
I almost want to visit SF just to see if there are as many _bros_ as some
people have led me to believe. I want to be stripped of my illusion that SF is
not a college fraternity, just a place with socially awkward young people who
don't quite see the output of contemporary cultural studies and sociology as
gospel or particularly insightful, most of them incidentally male.
—
My penchant for reducing serious issues to pithy conclusions is maddening, but
I wonder me if a quarter of the people complaining about the _techies_ would
be willing to give up the stuff those techies are making.
------
sportanova
I can imagine how fantastic this article makes Leah feel. Self righteousness
is one hell of a drug
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Interface Builder's Alternative Lisp Timeline (2013) - kick
https://paulhammant.com/2013/03/28/interface-builders-alternative-lisp-timeline/
======
lispm
The video shows an early Interface Builder written in Lisp.
It runs on a Lisp Machine board for the Mac II range: the TI MicroExplorer.
That was a Nubus board with TI's Lisp chip. The Lisp system was originally
developed at MIT and then by LMI. TI had a license and developed their own
range of machines and the software for it for a few years. Beginning of the AI
winter TI closed that business.
The TI Lisp chip was a 32Bit microprocessor designed to run Lisp applications
in compact computers. Earlier Lisp Machines were much larger.
The Lisp Machine inside the Mac had an interface to the Mac OS, so that one
could write Lisp applications on the MicroExplorer with Mac-like user
interfaces.
The software was probably already written in Common Lisp (or ZetaLisp). It was
also ported to the Mac using Common Lisp directly on the MacOS, without
needing a Lisp Machine board. Earlier versions actually originated on the Mac
and were written in LeLisp, a french Lisp dialect.
~~~
gdubs
This comment, and the parent post are perhaps my favorite HN type of content.
Dylan [1] the language underpinning the Newton was also a kind of LISP. Fairly
close timeframe as well. I wonder what the overlap was there; would be
interesting to track the lineage of the LISP contingent at Apple. I would
imagine Alan Kay would have some overlap with those folks as well.
1:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_(programming_language)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_\(programming_language\))
~~~
lispm
Dylan was used in early prototypes of Newton-like systems and an early Newton.
Dylan was a Lisp-derived language (originally with a Lisp-like syntax), mostly
developed in Macintosh Common Lisp and itself. The released Newton MessagePad
product used C++ and NewtonScript (because of extremely small RAMs of just
640kb).
Apple developed lots of new stuff in their Advanced Technology Group (ATG),
which used Lisp in many projects. Lisp was used for Dylan, but even the
prototype for the NewtonScript development environment was written in
Macintosh Common Lisp - and then released in a C+ version.
Alan Kay was there, but Alan was more interested in Smalltalk projects, I'd
guess. But one driving force for Lisp at Apple was Larry Tesler (
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler)
), who also worked with Smalltalk at Xerox Parc. See here:
[http://lispm.de/docs/prefix-
dylan/book.annotated/foreword.ht...](http://lispm.de/docs/prefix-
dylan/book.annotated/foreword.html)
~~~
mikelevins
Dylan (originally called Ralph) was basically Scheme plus a subset of CLOS. It
also had some features meant to make it easier to generate small, fast
artifacts--for example, it had a module system, and separately-compiled
libraries, and a concept of "sealing" by which you could promise the compiler
that certain things in the library would not change at runtime, so that
certain kinds of optimizations could safely be performed.
Lisp and Smalltalk were indeed used by a bunch of people at Apple at that
time, mostly in the Advanced Technology Group. In fact, the reason Dylan
existed was that ATG was looking for a Lisp-like or Smalltalk-like language
they could use for prototyping. There was a perception that anything produced
by ATG would probably have to be rewritten from scratch in C, and that created
a barrier to adoption. ATG wanted to be able to produce artifacts that the
rest of the company would be comfortable shipping in products, without giving
up the advantages of Lisp and Smalltalk. Dylan was designed to those
requirements.
It was designed by Apple Cambridge, which was populated by programmers from
Coral Software. Coral had created Coral Common Lisp, which later became
Macintosh Common Lisp, and, still later, evolved into Clozure Common Lisp.
Coral Lisp was very small for a Common Lisp implementation and fast. It had
great support for the Mac Toolbox, all of which undoubtedly influenced Apple's
decision to buy Coral.
Newton used the new language to write the initial OS for its novel mobile
computer platform, but John Scully told them to knock it off and rewrite it in
C++. There's all sorts of gossipy stuff about that sequence of events, but I
don't know enough facts to tell those stories. The switch to C++ wasn't
because Dylan software couldn't run in 640K, though; it ran fine. I had it
running on Newton hardware every day for a couple of years.
Alan Kay was around Apple then, and seemed to be interested in pretty much
everything.
Larry Tesler was in charge of the Newton group when I joined. After Scully
told Larry to make the Newton team rewrite their OS in C++, Larry asked me and
a couple of other Lisp hackers to "see what we could do" with Dylan on the
Newton. We wrote an OS. It worked pretty well, but Apple was always going to
ship the C++ OS that Scully ordered.
Larry joined our team as a programmer for the first six weeks. I found him
great to work with. He had a six-week sabbatical coming when Scully ordered
the rewrite, so Larry took his sabbatical with us, writing code for our
experimental Lisp OS.
Apple built a bunch of other interesting stuff in Lisp, including SK8. SK8 was
a radical application builder that has been described as "HyperCard on
Steroids". It was much more flexible and powerful than either HyperCard or
Interface Builder, but Apple never figured out what to do with it. Heck, Apple
couldn't figure out what to do with HyperCard, either.
~~~
gdubs
I know my comment doesn’t add much value to the conversation, but I’d be
remiss if I didn’t say thank you for taking the time to respond here and below
with such interesting history.
~~~
mikelevins
Sure. My memories of Newton, Dylan, and SK8 are fond. I loved working with
them and I like writing about them.
Anyone who wants to pay someone to work on similar things is encouraged to
contact me. :-)
------
robto
This reminds me a bit of hyperfiddle[0], which I've looked at a few times but
never really explored. I know the author (dustingetz) hangs out around here,
and I wonder if any of this interface builder stuff was prior art.
In any case, I wish we had more tools for interactivity these days. I use
emacs and it's given me a taste for what's possible, and I'm excited to see
Guix[1] mature because it has fantastic sympathies with emacs. But it seems
destined to be niche, even though it's such a wonderful vision of what
computing could be.
[0][http://www.hyperfiddle.net/](http://www.hyperfiddle.net/)
[1][https://guix.gnu.org/](https://guix.gnu.org/)
------
mark_l_watson
Great write up.
Denny’s company ExperTelligence sold a product that I wrote in Lisp. He got
Apple to pay for a full page ad in Scientific American for my product. He was
really a lot of fun to work with.
------
pcurve
that video was fascinating and depressing to watch at the same time. I know
it's not apple to apple comparison, but I feel like 30 years of computer
progress should've put us in better place in terms of ease of app dev.
~~~
em-bee
i am reminded of this every time i work with lisp or smalltalk. it feels like
we barely made any progress since half a century ago. at best rust is a form
of progress, and maybe pure functional programming (which lisp isn't),
although the latter feels more like an exploration of boundaries (how pure can
we make functional programming) rather than a technological advancement that
actually helps us write better code.
~~~
0x445442
I'm with the Raskins, the problems derive from interacting with computers via
applications. This may or may not be at the forefront of your mind but your
fondness of Lisp and Smalltalk systems supports my claim. Other systems such
as Oberon fall into this camp but I would also include early PC systems like
the Commodore 64 and DOS machines, even though they loaded individual
applications.
The commonality with these systems is the somewhat ubiquitous interface. I
think this is why power users love the command line. These HCIs reduce the
cognitive load of the application model where there are wildly disparate UIs
to deal with on a continual basis. The growth of "web apps" has made this
exponentially worse on the user because they're not bound by widget tool kits.
I also see modern markers to support the claim. From what I understand, in
China a huge amount of activity on smartphones that we would conduct through
various apps, they conduct through WeChat and WeChat bots. They do this
because it's more convenient and my claim is this is the normie's equivalent
of attempting to push all their computing needs into Emacs.
~~~
scroot
It is absolutely nuts that we don't have a greater diversity of computing
platforms (as we did in 80s 90s) considering we have such widely adopted
standards today that overcome the "compatibility" problems. There's fertile
ground for exploring more Smalltalk/Oberon/Hypercard/Lisp-machine like
computing systems, with the confidence that they will be able to interact in a
meaningful way with the outside world.
Unfortunately, Computer Science continues to train people in Unix.
~~~
0x445442
> It is absolutely nuts that we don't have a greater diversity of computing
> platforms (as we did in 80s 90s)
I'm seeing signs of a possible resurgence here with the reduced cost of PCBs,
FPGAs and the like along with the increased approach-ability to the space.
------
QuamStiver
Nice timeline! As the author of “Action!”, I’ve mused over the years at the
poor quality of interface tools / environments. I’m happy to say that Apple is
on to something with “SwiftUI’. They have completely rethought out a
declarative UI, kept it quite interactive, and made it much easier to build
quality IOS applications.
------
oracle2025
Most of the currently popular frameworks follow the pattern of organizations
that make the case that "Designers" and "Programmers" need to be strictly
separated.
~~~
zozbot234
Interfaces _should_ be strictly separated from the internal application code,
with generic layers between them. To do it otherwise means ending up with a
"big ball of mud" style app, that cannot have its interface redesigned in any
way other than by refactoring it completely.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Mindcast.com -- My Browser-Based Widget Engine MVP - bkyan
Hey everyone! I am building a little browser-based widget engine that is inspired by Corning's "A Day Made of Glass" video. I was hoping to get some feedback on which of my interface decisions made sense and which do not, as this user interface goes a bit off of the beaten path for webapps.<p>Please note that this MVP is made to work with a mouse-based devices. Touch sort-of works, but I've got a bit of work to do before I'm ready to call this MVP-ready for touch devices<p>Here are some features that (hopefully) makes this widget engine interesting for you:<p>* You can drag the background to scroll the viewport, both vertically and horizontally.<p>* When in edit mode, you can double-click the background and enter a url to embed a web panel/iframe.
(... as long as the target webpage doesn't block framing.)<p>* You can minimize/expand web panels, with automatic thumbnail generation by url2png's web service.
(... there is processing delay of up to 15 seconds on
the thumbnail generation.)<p>* You can set the page dimensions and upload custom backgrounds.<p>* There are some simple authoring widgets for edit mode that I started to work on:
a wysiwyg editor (redactor), a grid editor (handsontable), a checklist builder, an image uploader<p>Thanks for checking this out! You do have to register to get into edit mode and be able to save your work. It's, of-course, free since I'm obviously in beta... If you have any questions, feel free to post them here. I'll respond when I can. (I do have a day-contract unrelated to this project, so I can't be here all the time.)<p>http://mindcast.com
======
bkyan
Clickable Link:
<http://mindcast.com>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Installing Linux on a slightly dated chromebook advice - werber
Has anyone recently installed a current distro on a dated chromebook? Looking for a reliable tutorial after a few mishaps
======
henrythewasp
I've installed GalliumOS ([https://galliumos.org/](https://galliumos.org/)) on
my Acer C720. Previously I'd added Ubuntu via chrouton but disliked the
context switching between ChromeOS and Linux.
Eventually I was going to ebay the Chromebook after not finding much benefit
in ChromeOS but I read about GalliumOS and decided to try it as last effort.
It's been pretty good so far - the battery life is decent (~5 hours) and all
the Chromebook bits work (hibernate, camera, sound, mic, usb etc.)
Gallium installs over the ChromeOS, so you'd need to restore your Chromebook
if you want to go back.
I've also put a 128MB SSD in, replacing the titchy supplied one.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Write mobile apps in Python and generate native source codes for iOS and Android - meadhikari
http://pyzia.com/
======
kiennt
Very interesting. Python programmer now have tool as Rubymotion
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What Is New About NewSQL? - ceohockey60
https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2019/02/24/what-is-new-about-newsql/
======
nikato
I’m sorry but I stopped reading after:
> Correctness and consistency were the two important metrics, rather than
> today’s metrics of performance and availability.
Not sure if his author has ever worked on an actual real world commercial
system.
~~~
xkcd-sucks
> Correctness and consistency were the two important metrics, rather than
> today’s metrics of performance and availability.
Sounds exactly like what the businessy people say to me. I've just learned to
stop responding honestly.
~~~
nikato
Haha yeah. In my experience running top internet sites, honestly if you don’t
have consistency you probably have a very unskilled engineering team, or you
don’t need availability either because your company is irrelevant.
A good question for someone who doesn’t think consistency is important is: If
you have 200 different records that should all be the same but are different
due to lack of consistency, which one of those records do you believe? Usually
met by blank stares.
~~~
throwaway2016a
> Haha yeah. In my experience running top internet sites, honestly if you
> don’t have consistency you probably have a very unskilled engineering team,
> or you don’t need availability either because your company is irrelevant.
So Twitter and Facebook must have horrible teams. Both of those if you update
your profile it may take minutes (and certainly seconds) until everyone has a
copy.
When running a site at large scale consistency becomes a business concern. Is
it really important to my business that if someone loads a profile 10 seconds
after they changed their avatar it is still the old version? The answer is
probably "no" and if it is, you can scale a lot larger and on cheaper hardware
than if you answer "yes"
Hardly any NoSQL database offer consistency or if they do they have eventual
consistency as a default. Because for most applications it doesn't matter.
Take a blog as another example... if two people hit the homepage the moment
after a new article is published does it really matter if one of them still
gets the old article?
Edit: To try to be helpful...
> A good question for someone who doesn’t think consistency is important is:
> If you have 200 different records that should all be the same but are
> different due to lack of consistency, which one of those records do you
> believe? Usually met by blank stares.
This is not even remotely what lack of consistency means in the context of
distributed systems. In the context of distributed systems they are talking
about transactional consistency. I.e. if you hit two servers they each return
the same result at that exact moment in time. No one is arguing that the two
servers are permanently inconsistent such as in your example just that they
are momentarily inconsistent since in a distributed system the cost of
consistency is extremely high.
~~~
perl4ever
"in a distributed system the cost of consistency is extremely high"
I feel like this might be related to the reason why the universe was designed
with a top speed.
~~~
pintxo
Isn‘t the cost extremly high, because there is a top speed? If data could be
moved instantaneously from a to b, then consistency should be easier to
achieve
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Create your own Virtual Private Network for SSH with Putty - codemechanic
http://www.codelathe.com/blog/index.php/2009/03/31/create-your-own-virtual-private-network-for-ssh-with-putty/
======
duskwuff
This isn't actually a VPN - you can't send non-TCP traffic over it, and it
doesn't even work for all TCP traffic unless you use the SOCKS proxy (ssh -D).
What CAN be used to construct a true VPN is ssh -w. But I don't think that
works in putty.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Email to Postal - wyclif
http://www.email2postal.com/
======
thorax
I signed up to try it out.
I actually think the convenience could be a huge win. I already see lots of
potential in the UI. Some thoughts I had:
1\. Bridging the gap between digital and analog is not a bad strategy if you
can bring all the advantages of digital along with it.
2\. Already their UI lets you queue up letters to send, schedule letters for
particular days, save drafts, etc.
3\. It could track more metadata in the digital world, i.e. all sorts of other
mechanisms like custom fields/notes to help you track these against customer
problem numbers or account numbers at a business. Automatically support using
a Google Doc, etc.
4\. I suppose an API to tie it into your own applications could be pretty
nifty. Especially if they get to the point of allowing businesses to get more
bulk mailing options that are much cheaper than $1 a letter.
5\. As I mentioned earlier, add support for a community of user-generated
content of greeting cards that can be voted/upvoted,
6\. Add support for viral/political/consumerist letter templates that can be
shared/embedded. Provide a link and let people pile onto a letter-writing
campaign. It might look like astroturf, but could allow people to at least
scribble an electronic signature.
Lots of potential here. Just need to follow through. I'll see how my first
letter looks.
------
soundsop
The cost of credits is: _$10.00 - 10 credits, $20.00 - 22, $30.00 - 33, $40.00
- 45, and $100.00 - 110._
So the cheapest per-credit cost is at $40. And there is no price difference
between the $20, $30, and $100 options as they all give 10% more credits than
dollars.
------
thorax
They have greeting cards, too. I think this service could do well if it
emphasized that.
Advice/Request: Can you add user-generated greeting cards like threadless does
for T-shirts?
If you do, I think your service will win. Thanks! Bye!
(not sure if the founder is reading this, of course)
~~~
wyclif
I'll make sure he sees this. I just sent him the link.
------
RyanGWU82
I don't get it. When I need to mail a letter, why can't I just send it myself?
Hint: If there are some good usage scenarios, it would be good to explain them
on the home page. Customers evaluate new products by their benefits, not their
features.
~~~
staticshock
laziness, i assume. here's the steps i need to take in order to mail a letter:
(a) buy a printer/set it up (b) buy paper/envelopes (c) visit the posto office
with my sealed letter, so that they can tell me how much it will take to ship
it to some destination abroad (because how the hell would i know)
for something i do, maybe, once a year, that's a hell of a lot of work
and, no, i _don't_ own a printer. it's not useful in the general case. ditto
television. my toaster oven rocks the house, though.
~~~
ejs
The same way I am, I mail so rarely that I usually dont have any stamps, and
when I do they are usually the wrong amount (seems to change often). So I need
to spend the time to find the correct price, maybe go buy more stamps then
mail it. If I could just use a service like this I would probably do it.
Although when I do have to mail things I usually have to include things so its
a manual process anyway.
Maybe this is tailored to use for complain letters or threats that people
don't want coming from their geographically location...?
------
wallflower
Earthclassmail.com does the reverse - it's for people living abroad who still
need access to postal mail
"Thousands of customers in over 130 countries are using our service right now.
They have their postal mail forwarded to one of our processing facilities,
instead of to an office or home address, and then they can view scanned images
of each envelope’s exterior (via a secure online account) and direct us
to..[open it+scan the contents/discard it/shred it]"
~~~
davidw
Interesting...and kind of scary. I think I'll keep relying on my parents for a
while yet:-)
------
emal2postal
Thanks for the comments and all the good ideas - we'll revisit the font
complaint below and think through some of the other suggestions.
International goes online within the next few days, as does the ability to
include a photograph (4x6 glossy print).
Thanks for mentioning the unicode as well; we'll be sure to begin testing
that. As for pre-written and shared political letters, that's a great idea
we've been considering.
email2postal.com
------
vikram
The indian post office has been doing this for over 10 years.
~~~
kirubakaran
<http://www.indiapost.gov.in/Netscape/epost.html>
(About 15 cents per page)
------
nickb
Hey, it's sort of like Gmail Paper but it's not April 1st yet.
<http://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/more.html>
------
tel
The non-parallelism in the name of this service is really a problem as far as
brand and influence goes, but I'm interested to see if the service is actually
useful.
------
jdewey
An API-accessible variant: <http://www.postalmethods.com/>
------
staticshock
interesting service that, i suspect, might actually find an audience. i, for
instance, wouldn't mind using it to communicate with some friends abroad.
speaking of which--i hope they print unicode okay?
~~~
aneesh
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't send mail abroad for just a dollar. And indeed
they serve "US Domestic, APO, FPO" ie within US, plus US military mail.
------
kingkongrevenge
USPS.com already lets you upload or type in a document to send as hard copy
mail.
~~~
bayareaguy
Can you provide a specific link?
------
bmaier
Its almost a parody of itself. Part of me wants to believe its in jest.
------
bkrausz
font-family: "lucida grande", "lucida sans", verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif;
Bad call on the font choice...
It's sad that the first thing I notice when visiting websites nowadays is the
usability/design of it
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An AI Lie Detector Is Going to Start Questioning Travelers in the EU - atlasunshrugged
https://gizmodo.com/an-ai-lie-detector-is-going-to-start-questioning-travel-1830126881
======
deft
Why are lie detectors legal and why were they ever used for anything? We know
they don't work. And we know this one won't work any better, because now
they've just put the work of sentiment analysis on "AI" vs. a "trained
expert".
~~~
darawk
Why do you think these won't work? I would think they have a dataset that
they're validating them on if they're calling it "AI".
I think it's unlikely that they'll be perfect, but they may very well be good
enough to filter people for further, more intensive screening.
~~~
dagw
_I would think they have a dataset that they 're validating them on if they're
calling it "AI"._
You obviously don't work for IBM :)
A skilled IBM Watson sales consultant as capable of selling simple linear
regressions as Big Data AI!
~~~
bryanrasmussen
You know with a big enough corpus of successful sales I think we should be
able to train our Sales-Bot to sell simple linear regressions as Big Data AI!
~~~
stochastic_monk
I wish that machine learning wasn’t being mislabeled as AI. It’s pattern
recognition, not intelligence.
~~~
dagw
_It’s pattern recognition, not intelligence._
While I don't disagree that "AI" as a term is being abused, the distinction
you're making seems very much a philosophical one.
------
YeGoblynQueenne
Not to put a fine point on it, but "the team at iBorderCtrl" are charlatans.
Their system is supposed to detect lying from facial expressions. The only
kind of "science" purporting to back this possibility is the work of the
psychologist, Paul Ekman, which is based on flimsy evidence at best. A
gigantic hint that this "research" is a bunch of hooey is his claim to have
identified 29 "wizzards of deception detection" [1]- in very, very literal
terms those are people with the magickal power to tell when someone is lying
just by looking at their face (and magickally perceiving revealing facial
expressions, subconsciously).
The iBorderCtrl system might indeed be replaced by a wizzard, or, why not be
more inclusive, a witch, with a magick wand pointed to the traveller, while
questions are being asked of them. If the traveller is telling the truth, the
wand will jump up, if they're lying it will dive down. The witch is not moving
the wand! She's only channeling the MAGICK!
The same magick being channelled by this revolting misuse of technology for
the most odious purpose imaginable. It is not a coincidence that this
"prototype" is being deployed in Hungary, the country in the EU that has
embraced populist, xenophobic tendencies as no other, having elected a master
of the craft, Viktor Orbán, as a prime minister and head of government.
This is such utter, utter bullshit. I cannot believe that the Commission
agreed to all this. What the fucking fuck.
___________
[1]
[http://www.communicationcache.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/10887248/o...](http://www.communicationcache.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/10887248/on_lie_detection_wizards..pdf)
~~~
mschuster91
> I cannot believe that the Commission agreed to all this.
I can. I mean, the driving forces in the EU got _extremely_ xenophobic. Italy
is ruled by the fascist Salvini, the PiS in Poland are not far behind Orban,
the UK government has been xenophobic for decades, France suffers from
xenophobia too (after the terror attacks, though) and our own Horst Seehofer
risked collapsing the German government over (literally) 0 migrants (per
[https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/seehofers-deal-
zahl...](https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/seehofers-deal-zahlen-der-
bundesregierung-zeigen-wie-nutzlos-das-fluechtlings-abkommen-mit-spanien-
ist_id_9399400.html))...
What are human rights, what is democracy worth, when there is no one left to
enforce them? The EU won't do shit against Hungary, Poland or Italy (as there
is a 100% consensus required!), the US under Trump are going isolationist and
trampling on human rights wherever they can, and the UN Security Council is
powerless against the stuff that Russia, China, Saudi-Arabia etc. do because
there's always a veto power that bails out their "friends".
------
misiti3780
7 years ago, I worked on a government contract (not S,TS) trying to build a
lie detector using computer vision and the research done by Paul Ekman (from
the book Blink). After a few years of building models, we determined that it
would be impossible to build an effective detector. I wonder if the research
has changed.
~~~
sebazzz
Perhaps they use machine learning for this. Was that used in your project?
~~~
levythe
Ah, yes, the magical, "Machine Learning works even when there is no proper way
to determine the hygiene of the training data," argument.
~~~
908087
Throw some "cloud blockchain" in the mix and it should be ready for immediate
global deployment. I can almost taste the synergy.
~~~
ticmasta
OT: a friend & former coworker and I have a pact that's been running for a
long time: whenever you hear the word "synergy" you are _required_ to make a
hand gesture sliding your index finger on one hand into a ring formed by the
other hand.
It's crass and juvenile and totally inappropriate but after more than ten
years it's also second nature and still represents the gist of what the
synergizer's plans are likely to accomplish.
------
atupis
"iBorderCtrl team, said that they are “quite confident” they can bring the
accuracy rate up to 85 percent."
Magical 85 percent accuracy. so it is basically toy.
~~~
captainbland
So what like one in six or seven people will be incorrectly flagged as lying?
That's just silly, it'd be a total circus trying to use it.
~~~
FabHK
Well, in particular, suppose 1 out of 100 people is lying at the border. Send
10k people over the border, 100 are lying, 9900 aren't.
With 85% accuracy, 85 of liars are flagged as lying (correctly), and 15% x
9900 = 1485 of non-liars are flagged as lying (incorrectly).
Thus, a bit more than 5% of people flagged as lying are actually lying, while
_nearly 95% of people flagged are innocent_. This is not even taking into
account the possibility that hardened criminals might be less nervous than
somewhat anxious normal people.
Enjoy your border crossings, everyone.
EDIT: fix italics
EDIT to add: And that's _after_ they get the accuracy up to 85%. And unless
accuracy is defined somewhat differently.
~~~
cporios
> With 85% accuracy, 85 of liars are flagged as lying (correctly), [...]
This is not what accuracy means.
85% accuracy just means that 85% of all the decisions the system makes are
correct. A system in such a setting, where a single false negative matters a
lot more than a single false positive (which would simply be handed over to a
human for further investigation) would necessarily be tuned for extremely high
recall at the cost of precision. In other words, it would often flag innocent
people for further investigation (as you've said), but it would almost never
clear people that should've been flagged.
~~~
FabHK
Ah, yes, you're right. Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision#In_bina...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision#In_binary_classification)
~~~
FabHK
Ah, well, yes, looks like I was right, too, though.
Unless I'm mistaken (and that's possible, I've changed my opinion twice now),
my example outlined above is
\- conceivable, and
\- has 85% accuracy (85 people correctly identified as liars, 85% x 9900 =
8415 correctly identified as non-liars, thus a total of 85+8415=8500 of 10k
total "accurately" identified), and
\- still only 5% or 6% of flagged liars are actual liars.
EDIT to add:
And if the system is tweaked as you suggest, to very rarely fail to flag a
liar:
\- suppose it correctly flags all 100 liars as liars
\- suppose accuracy is still 85%, thus 8500 people in total classified
correctly
\- thus 8400 non-liars flagged correctly, and the remaining 1500 non-liars
flagged incorrectly
Now still only 6.25% (100 of 1600) of people flagged as liars are actually
liars. Thus, even with the tuning you suggest, this remains.
(Note to self: 1. think 2. write)
~~~
CardenB
FWIW, I think you are totally correct if you take accuracy at face value.
You really have to compare precision and recall values to know if the accuracy
statement holds true. You could have have 100% precision and low recall and
still have 85% accuracy (meaning you could never flag someone as lying and be
wrong while missing a bunch of liars and still have 85% accuracy).
but if everything is totally evenly distributed, then 85% accuracy means 85%
accuracy and your first statement is correct.
The real issue is that accuracy is only one piece of the puzzle.
------
StavrosK
What the hell? This is completely unacceptable, who voted this in? I'm not so
much concerned about this system, which is a complete joke and is never going
to work, as much as I am concerned by the fact that some people thought this
was acceptable enough to actually deploy.
~~~
isostatic
Looks like the commission is running this as a pilot.
As always your contact will be via your MEP, who appoints the commission
president (based on the fact the EPP was the largest party in 2014 and Junker
was the presidential candidate of that party)
~~~
antpls
And also, don't forget to register yourself on the voter lists for the EU's
2019 election!
The countries in which the pilot takes place were mainly EPP (odd
correlation...?)
By the way, direct links to newpress release and project page, which lists
involved countries :
\-
[http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?artid...](http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?artid=49726)
\-
[https://cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/202703_en.html](https://cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/202703_en.html)
------
qwerty456127
This is outrageous. I always feel extremely anxious (and in such a case I
would also feel angry) and try to imitate I'm not by playing Mr. Spock + smile
when passing border (or any other) checks although I'm neither a smuggler nor
a terrorist (but have some impostor syndrome). Such a device will probably
notice this and put me in problems.
~~~
jobigoud
It also has a built-in bias: the more you are falsely accused, the more
stressed you become when you are treated as a suspect.
~~~
DoctorOetker
that's not bias, that's a self-fullfilling-prophecy runaway effect, even
worse!
------
leephillips
As if getting through an airport isn't bad enough, now in these locations we
will have to submit to a pseudoscientific farce. (Polygraphs, that record more
detailed physiological data, in concert with a human interpreter, fail to
"detect deceit". Clearly this system, which the article says was tested on 30
people before deployment, will produce random results.)
------
coldcode
If we could make politicians have to pass an AI lie detector we build first,
then I am for this. Firstly this will never happen, and secondly if for some
reason it did we would then likely have no politicians.
~~~
Symmetry
That might inadvertently select for politicians who believe what the voters
want to hear over those who lie but know its a lie. Since the later want to
get re-elected they'll quietly abandon the good-sounding-but-horrible plans
they talked about to get into office but the former will actually try to carry
them out.
------
travelbuffoon
Significant note: this appears to be a customs screening, not immigration
screening.
Which makes perfect sense since it's extremely hard for customs agents to
actually catch smugglers. (Compared to immigration screening which is largely
based on hard criteria which human agents evaluate with much less leeway.)
The bigger question is whether it's effective - but anything is likely to be
more effective than customs agents selecting people to search based on gut
feeling.
------
antpls
"which cost the EU a little more than $5 million"
Well, I didn't know my taxes were used to build such systems. It would have
been _really_ more acceptable if they sold the system as a simple chat bot
that records what you says, in case you are involved in a case later. But the
"lie detector" part is scary and this is the typical instance that Elon Musk
warned against.
I don't understand how academics accepted to work on that.
------
atlasunshrugged
I wonder what the effect on the human border agents will be if this system is
popularized - will it be something like "self-driving" cars where people start
falling asleep at the wheel even though the tech isn't there yet (I suppose in
this scenario it means that people who are lying are seen as telling the truth
and they just get waved by by border control)
------
apo
"Lie detection" is probably just the beginning. Think of what could be done by
combining this system with facial recognition. Deployed widely enough, this
system could build a personalized profile for each individual, mapping
emotional state to times and locations, or more crudely it could be used for
racial profiling.
------
albertgoeswoof
Couldn’t we just use a random number generator instead?
~~~
iguy
Some places do exactly this.
I think the idea was that, with any kind of profiling, it would be easy for
drug gangs to figure out who to use as mules. And with any judgement, they can
pressurise the guy making the call. But a lottery machine everyone can see is
harder to defeat.
------
code4tee
Doesn’t GDPR have a lot to say about the use of algorithms for decision
making? This sort of thing of letting an ‘AI’ decide on its own what kind of
airport experience you’re going to have seems to fly into the face of that.
~~~
lotu
I don't think GDPR would prevent this I read though it for work before it was
implemented I don't recall anything saying algorithms can't make decisions
about people. Our company uses algorithms to decide what ad is displayed to
people, and I'm not recalling anything that would make these diffrent under
the law.
Furthermore, I believe the government has been given broad exceptions from
GDPR for anything related to doing government stuff. This is form of
legitimate interest "processing is necessary for the performance of a task
carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority
vested in the controller;" It is in the public interest the border control
laws be enforced and a manner that is both effective and minimized cost to the
public, also this involves the exercise of official border control authority,
therefore this is acceptable.
(Standard reminder that if you are relying on the advice of a stranger for
legal issues that matter you should get an attorney.)
~~~
mattlondon
I found this:
[https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-
da...](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-
protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/rights-related-to-automated-
decision-making-including-profiling/)
It is interesting that there is a comment about explicit consent - I imagine
this will be like the millimeter wave scanners: you can either go in and get
your genitals imaged by some remote voyeur, or if you dont like that then you
can get a thorough strip search by someone in blue gloves. Have a nice day :-)
------
Canada
Just like the evil TSA imaging systems, best thing to do is refuse to
participate.
~~~
kranner
I imagine it will not be optional when it is out of the experimental phase.
~~~
Canada
What can they do? Strap you in front of it like it’s clockwork orange? You can
refuse to respond to it. Cover your face with your hand and say “operator
operator operator” or some other nonsense. Say it’s creepy or ridiculous to
talk to such a thing. They will let you go.
~~~
kranner
If it's mandatory if you want to enter the EU (as a non-citizen), I'd guess
they would deny you entry.
~~~
travelbuffoon
Nope. It's for customs, not immigration. You're already in the country, they
just need to figure out whether they need to search your bags for contraband.
~~~
stale2002
So then if you refuse to answer they will just search your bags.
~~~
toweringgoat
Customs agents are supposed to do that. How else do you think smuggling gets
stopped? It's pretty much universal that your belongings can be searched (then
there are some countries expand that to searching digital data, but that's a
bit of a perversion).
~~~
stale2002
This is being used by literal customs agents.
That's the point. If you refuse then they do a thorough search.
If you answer suspiciously, or refuse to answer, then you get the full search.
This is similar to how you can refuse body scans at the airport, but if you do
then you get the full pat down search.
------
llalie92
There's a lot of skepticism in this thread. I've actually researched this a
bit and there is research suggesting AI-based lie detection to be possible. It
will need a multimodal approach where it's more than just video images though.
Also, the use case of border control is a great application. There's a lot of
misunderstanding in this thread. The AI screening is just a first screening,
and if someone fails that, then they go to a human. So moderate false positive
rates are acceptable.
The commentators on this thread generally make a few mistakes: assuming lie
detectors won't work because polygraphs don't work, assuming the border
control use case needs to be perfect or not have false positives (it doesn't),
assuming Paul Ekman's microexpressions are all that iBorderCtrl is basing
their research on (I agree Ekman's research is questionable, and I don't know
what exactly iBorderCtrl is doing, but it seems highly likely they're doing
more than just looking for microexpressions), assuming racist intent or that
it'll just flag non-Europeans as liars.
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Yes, of course there is skepticism in the thread. The claim being made is
completely ridiculous.
I would be very surprised if the "research suggesting AI-based lie detection
to be possible" that you mention is from anyone who has any sort of reputation
to protect. Machine learning scientists, the vast majority of, would not touch
such obvious pseudo-scientific claptrap with a ten-foot pole. It's the kind of
thing that tarnishes one's reputation and never washes off. And rightly so.
I would not welcome, but grudingly accept, your references to the contrary.
Also, if iBorderCtrl are not using Eckman's work, then what kind of
theoretical framework are they basing their work on? Why is it "highlly likely
they're doing more than just looking for microexpressions"? Where is all the
science of detecting lies from looking at peoples' faces?
And if they're not basing their work on someone's research, then what are they
basing it on?
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Well, it turns out, they are using microexpressions - and nothing else:
_The IBORDERCTRL system has been set up so that travellers will use an online
application to upload pictures of their passport, visa and proof of funds,
then use a webcam to answer questions from a computer-animated border guard,
personalised to the traveller’s gender, ethnicity and language. The unique
approach to ‘deception detection’ analyses the micro-expressions of travellers
to figure out if the interviewee is lying._
From the Commision's website, posted here by another user:
[http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?artid...](http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?artid=49726)
------
jillesvangurp
I always feel a bit sorry for the rubber stamp monkeys sitting at the border
control in the US. They are so fucked at so many levels that isn't funny any
more. For starters, their job is purely symbolic as it is unlikely anyone that
shouldn't be there would get that far: it would imply multiple levels of
failure in several agencies: you traveled internationally and were profiled,
checked, and triple checked before you even arrived at your gate. They are
bureaucratic ass coverage with little practical real life value. What little
value there is has more to do with controlling migration than any security.
Domestically, many airlines already have automated checkins (including luggage
dropoff in some places), automated boarding, and in some places automated
passport checks at immigration. The last human hurdle is security screening,
which is mostly theater at this point.
So, automated screening of travelers at the beginning of their journey makes a
lot of sense. Mostly it's just confirming the obvious: are they who they claim
they are (i.e. does the person showing up match the automated profile
available already, are there any red flags warranting extra attention) and are
they carrying anything they should not be carrying. Like AI already
outperforming physicians in the job of scanning medical images for anomalies,
surely state of the art luggage scanners are also outperforming humans
(probably by magnitudes). Add to that some screening for clear markers that
somebody's behavior is a bit off and you have basically automated away
security staff likely to miss those signals because they are human beings that
get tired, stressed, bored, distracted, biased, etc.
So the combined checks of identity, profiling, automated luggage scans and
escalation to humans in case of any doubt should be vastly more efficient. The
default case should be zero humans involved with the whole process. When it
escalates, you still get the humans in the loop that are then a lot more
effective because they already know there were some red flags.
This stuff will initially perform quite poorly probably. But it will still be
worth it in identifying the "definitely not lying, don't waste your time on
this" category of travelers.
~~~
dr_teh
" But it will still be worth it in identifying the "definitely not lying,
don't waste your time on this" category of travelers."
That is absolutely not how any of this works, at all.
------
varjag
Anyone who ever dealt with a chat bot in customer support should be alarmed by
this.
------
qwerty456127
In general respect to human rights and privacy has always seemed an important
part of the EU ideology. I just hope this a purely local initiative and the
central EU government is going to intervene and stop this.
------
contravariant
>The virtual agent is reportedly customized according to the traveler’s
gender, ethnicity, and language.
That all just seems to be fancy way of saying it's discriminatory and racist.
~~~
lucb1e
In that case a system programmed not to recommend vaginal checkups to men is
sexist? I can totally imagine that different genders lie differently, and if
it turns out that they don't (or that different ethnicities don't or
whatever), great, one model fewer to maintain right?
------
badosu
Seems like the perfect strawman for recording face recognition data use in
surveillance...
------
tinus_hn
Border checkpoints in the Schengen zone, which is most of the EU, are
forbidden.
~~~
logifail
Reality check: tell that to the German border police who are standing on the
A93 motorway at Kiefersfelden eyeballing every single driver entering Germany
from Austria.
There's more than a whiff of Checkpoint Charlie about the place (portakabins
installed directly on what was the motorway surface, concrete traffic calming
measures, 5 km/h speed limit, armed police, more police sitting in chase car
should anyone decide not to stop, floodlit at night)
I'm sure it's worth it, what with Austria and Germany sharing a fairly long
land border which is more or less completely unsecured. Side roads - of which
there are plenty - don't get checked much either. <rolls eyes>
------
presscast
I wonder what its cost function is. I sure hope it's better than "get people
to say inconsistent things", as I'd expect that to produce a system that is
optimized to trip people up.
------
naijabb
We need the US embassies to use this. I have been denied visas three times
because the interviewers feel I would not return to my home country. If this
AI detector was used, at least they would know I am honest about just visiting
the USA.
~~~
dagw
AI can never be better than the training data you feed it. If videos of your
interviews where used to train on how a 'liar' might behave, it will make the
same mistakes as the human interviewers.
~~~
isostatic
E.g. amazon resume sifting ai
[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-
automatio...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-
insight/amazon-scraps-secret-ai-recruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-
women-idUSKCN1MK08G)
------
modzu
OBEY
~~~
modzu
lets spell it out then
[https://obeygiant.com/propaganda/manifesto/](https://obeygiant.com/propaganda/manifesto/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Australian welfare recipient’s data released to counter public criticism - kerno
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/27/centrelink-recipients-data-released-by-department-to-counter-public-criticism
======
cyberferret
No doubting the veracity of this occurrence, but it is baffling that it
happened nonetheless - federal government departments here (Australia) are
usually cautious to a paranoid level when it comes to people even looking at
information. I remember cases when curious internal staff members at the tax
and social security offices being sacked on the spot for merely doing searches
on celebrity names without due reason.
Both my sisters work in law enforcement agencies, and tell me that their every
action on their computer systems is tracked and logged. Once when my younger
sister worked in the Traffic infringement section of the local police
department, I asked her to check up if I was actually pinged by a remote speed
camera that morning as I suspected I was. She refused, on the grounds that any
such searches were tracked, and if it was found she did a search against a
vehicle belonging to a close family member, it would trigger an internal
investigation by the ethics team.
~~~
josephg
I'm an Australian who lived a couple of years in the Bay Area. The views
people hold toward privacy was one of the most surprising cultural differences
between our countries. As an outsider I was shocked to learn that privacy
really _is_ an afterthought for a lot of bay area residents.
US anecdote: a product I worked on had a feature which needs full access to a
customer's email account to use. The feature scrapes their inbox and can send
emails impersonating our customers' staff. I said there was no way I'd use
that feature, but it proved to be super popular! People had no problem handing
over access to their entire (work) email account to a startup.
Australia anecdote: When my uncle died we needed to hunt down his bank
details. The banks (by law) weren't allowed to even tell us if he was one of
their customers without seeing his death certificate and our documentation.
I'm now way more nervous about trusting US based startups with my data. Its
not just that many of the engineers are inexperienced, and most startups don't
have any security expertise. Its also that culturally I know they probably
don't understand personal privacy. I can't trust that they'll protect my data
if they might not bother protecting their own.
~~~
mdpopescu
I worked on a financial product based on one of Intuit's. I was shocked to
realize that this Intuit product was impersonating people (using their
username and password) to log on to their bank accounts and download all
transactions - which our product was then analyzing. I was sure nobody would
allow that; who will give a third-party their bank username and password?
I was extremely surprised to find out that the answer was "at least tens of
thousands of people".
~~~
feld
_cough_ Mint
~~~
shiven
_cough cough_ Yodlee
------
devurandom_
The power corporations are accumulating with information on intimate customer
behavior and the glacial response of society to this is a daily refrain on HN.
Has anyone seen a comprehensive, or at least collected, list of canonical
examples of strong arguments for:
* Raising awareness amongst non-technical folks that such incredible stocking up of PII can raise complicated ethical risks?
* Giving legislative representatives practical and defensible reasons to not just go with the flow and actually have a chance to offer smart legislative options without being shot down?
This particular example is alarming - I can picture plenty of corporations
that wouldn't mind the idea of "customer service" representatives casually
raising the prospect of releasing customer PII in order to "show their side of
the story" as leverage in situations where a customer is threatening to go to
an Ombudsman or other public forum.
~~~
sundvor
On top of all the complete and utterly ... WRONG ... things that Centrelink
have been doing lately, a billion dollar entity attacking a single,
disadvantaged person furthers the depths of the inethical behaviours at
display by the Australian government.
The list of wrong things include knowingly issuing pay-us-back-or-we'll-empty-
your-bank-account legal notices incorrectly, when they clearly averaged e.g. a
single high payment month over the whole period when the rules state this is
not to be done. Then saying just call us, knowing the call wait lines are so
horrid it is a whole day project just to get in touch with anyone.
I'm so over this government.
------
vacri
It is beyond bizarre that their own legal counsel approved the release,
especially since they're also under the spotlight at the moment. I'm not sure
how they expect to 'maintain public trust by showing their side of the story'
when that involves violating privacy.
------
yosamino
This is a good example of why the "I don't have anything to hide" argument is
incorrect.
That way of thinking only works as long as your goals and positions are
aligned with the entity collecting information about you to begin with. If
they're not, or the situation changes, imbalances of information lead to
_disadvantages_ for you pretty quickly.
All it took was some bureaucrat feeling petty.
~~~
literallycancer
And this is how it looks in the 3rd world.[1]
_On 31 October, Congress party officials provided assailants with voter
lists, school registration forms, and ration lists.[49] The lists were used to
find the location of Sikh homes and business, an otherwise impossible task
because they were located in unmarked and diverse neighbourhoods. On the night
of 31 October, the night before the massacres began, assailants used the lists
to mark the houses of Sikhs with letter "S".[49] In addition, because most of
the mobs were illiterate, Congress Party officials provided help in reading
the lists and leading the mobs to Sikh homes and businesses in the other
neighbourhoods.[46] By using the lists the mobs were able to pinpoint the
locations of Sikhs they otherwise would have missed.[46]_
_... One man, Amar Singh, escaped the initial attack on his house by having a
Hindu neighbour drag him into his neighbour 's house and declare him dead.
However, a group of 18 assailants later came looking for his body, and when
his neighbour replied that others had already taken away the body an assailant
showed him a list and replied, "Look, Amar Singh's name has not been struck
off from the list so his dead body has not been taken away."[46]_
1 - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-
Sikh_riots#Use_of_vo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-
Sikh_riots#Use_of_voter_lists_by_the_Congress_Party)
~~~
pessimizer
And in the first world:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust)
"The 1933 census, with design help and tabulation services provided by IBM
through its German subsidiary, proved to be pivotal to the Nazis in their
efforts to identify, isolate, and ultimately destroy the country's Jewish
minority. Machine-tabulated census data greatly expanded the estimated number
of Jews in Germany by identifying individuals with only one or a few Jewish
ancestors. Previous estimates of 400,000 to 600,000 were abandoned for a new
estimate of 2 million Jews in the nation of 65 million.[15]"
------
yazbo_mcclure
Australia Australia we love you Australia
------
yummyfajitas
In the event that this release was illegal, I really do feel for the people at
the agency. Someone made public false allegations about them and they are
legally forbidden from proving that person wrong. It's a tough position to be
in.
I don't have a good solution to this, but I do think that there should be a
legal way to prove a person is lying if they directly make accusations about
you. After all, they are the one who made the situation public, not you.
~~~
jbapple
> there should be a legal way to prove a person is lying if they directly make
> accusations about you.
"about _you_ "? Her article did not name or provide identifying information
about any individual employee of Centrelink.
~~~
yummyfajitas
In my post, "you" refers to the corporate person that is the Centrelink
government agency (and implicitly the humans behind that corporate person),
about which false allegations were made.
Is there some meaningful distinction here that means false allegations about
an organization of humans should go unrefuted, but false allegations about a
single human should be refuted?
~~~
jbapple
> Is there some meaningful distinction here that means false allegations about
> an organization of humans should go unrefuted, but false allegations about a
> single human should be refuted?
To me, false allegations against individuals are more serious than false
allegations against organizations for a few reasons. First, I care about the
well-being of organizations only to the extent they positively impact the
well-being of humans (or, to a lesser extent, animals). Second, a single false
allegation against an individual human seems to be able to have a much more
damaging effect than one against an organization.
I suspect this is a well-worn topic and that I would consider many of the
other objections to corporate personhood to be "meaningful distinctions".
~~~
yummyfajitas
In this case, the false allegations were spread with the implicit goal of
getting the government to spend more money/resources fixing problems that may
not exist. If successful, that would result in a huge amount of waste, which
harms real humans.
Even if it were a private organization, such allegations could directly result
in harm to the human owners. For example, false allegations about bad food at
a restaurant would mean the human owners and employees lose money. In much the
same way, false allegations about a human might result in them losing their
job.
~~~
jbapple
While all of these are possible and all of these are bad outcomes, I think
that their probability of happening and the magnitude of the result is less
bad than what would occur if allegations of cruelty or incompetence were made
against an individual.
I don't think we're going to be able to settle this argument here, so I'll
just leave it at that.
------
briane80
This story follows a pattern of coordinated attacks on public services in The
Guardian and other left leaning media outlets. Usually with the agenda of
demanding more money and funding.
No doubt, mistakes happen in large bureaucracies but the story is usually
slanted as some evil agency trying to destroy certain 'marginalised' sections
of society. Whereas the truth is probably nothing like that.
I cannot help but think it is agenda pushing, distortion of facts and playing
on emotions. Read the woman's original article and see the emotional language
and phrases used. I think it says a lot about the intent of these media
pieces.
Read the linked Centrelinks response and several things are refuted, so why in
these comments is there an automatic pile on one side?
~~~
yosamino
I think I can't quite follow your argument. Did you mean that the Guardian is
trying to demand funding from someone, and they think they'll get this through
this story somehow ? Would you mind explaining ?
> No doubt, mistakes happen in large bureaucracies but the story is usually
> slanted as some evil agency trying to destroy certain 'marginalised'
> sections of society. Whereas the truth is probably nothing like that.
The truth is that as an individual, especially one from a marginalized section
of society, you are up against a powerful bureaucracy that has the ability to
completely screw up your life, by mistake or not. So we as a society depend on
holding these bureaucracies to very high standards.
It is also true that in any large bureaucracy, mistakes inevitably happen from
time to time. One would wish for a leadership of said bureaucracy to handle
these mistakes with integrity and from a position of confidence. By, for
example, contacting this women directly, quietly resolving this issue and then
adding this problem to the yearly statistics to prove you run a good ship. Who
knows, this woman might have written a blog post singing your praises, after
you resolved her problem for her. Certainly the better PR strategy.
If, on the other hand, you resolve to attacking your clients in public,
violating their privacy rights in the process, then maybe you're too close to
running an evil, rather than a responsible agency.
> Read the linked Centrelinks response and several things are refuted, so why
> in these comments is there an automatic pile on one side?
Did you read the refutation of the refutation as well ? I found the article
presents the different viewpoints quite well. Including that this sort of
pressure is able to stir up strong emotions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
News developers should know about database managers - hn12
http://www.itworld.com/software/112800/database-round
======
wglb
Unencumbered by useful content. "Although DBMS is an old technology, it's also
a fresh one". What?
~~~
catfish
Like Algebra or Set Theory. Old technology indeed...
Oh that's right, you don't need silly things like Algebra or Calculus when you
go NoSQL.
<http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hause011/code/SQLexample.txt> -
"solid provable framework"
but I digress....
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Stripe is the worst choice for your new startup business - herendin2
https://honest.cash/Olsm/why-stripe-is-the-worst-choice-for-your-new-startup-business-1569
======
ukulele
They created a crypto startup that allowed you to purchase with stripe, then
had a bunch risky transactions come through, which they diligently told stripe
about. So stripe closed the account because it was high risk.
They were a magnet for fraudulent transactions and had a ton of support
requests on how to block various things; I don't really blame stripe for not
wanting to process them.
~~~
tptacek
They probably don't even have the option of supporting them; their upstream
banking partners have restrictions on these kinds of businesses.
~~~
herendin2
What do you mean by "these kinds of businesses?"
~~~
tptacek
Cryptocurrency companies. Banks ban them.
~~~
olsm
Keys4Coins is not a cryptocurrency company. We are an online shop for pc
games. Your comment makes as much sense as it would saying Steam is a
cryptocurrency company when they only accepted Bitcoin for payments.
~~~
tptacek
Do you accept cryptocurrency in exchange for USD-denominated gift cards?
~~~
herendin2
If you don't know the answer to this question, why are you making these bold
declarations about the company?
~~~
chrisoverzero
He knows that they do -- it's on the Keys4Coins front page.
In case this is genuine confusion, this is a rhetorical device. _i.e._
A: "Do you want to go get ice cream?"
B: "Is the Pope Catholic?!"
The (obvious) "yes" to the second question is an indirect answer to the first.
~~~
herendin2
It's hard to believe that tptacek knew that already, but did not say it
clearly 3 days ago, when the company was described as a "crypto startup". Why
would he waste everyone's time with such rhetoric games?
------
edwinwee
I help manage support at Stripe. While we can’t discuss an individual
business’ situation publicly (feel free to write us at [email protected]), we
agree that the emails here were confusing. I’ll look into what happened here
and how we can fix any underlying issues.
~~~
drcongo
Serious question: Is initial email support with Stripe handled by bots? Every
time I've had an issue the replies from support@ have been so bad and so
unrelated to the questions that I'm asking that I've resorted to calling it
out publicly as a bot on Twitter. Only after I've done that do I start getting
replies that are sane and relevant.
------
sudhirj
The article could also be called “Why selling crypto for real money tends to
attract every card thief on earth and is the worst choice of business for your
new startup”
~~~
cotelletta
But also "why customer support has turned into a pointless exercise of copy
pasting with zero understanding or decency".
------
blairanderson
You're a Crypto business, there is no good payment processor for your startup.
~~~
sadris
Stripe literally says in their tos that you can't use their service to buy
crypto
~~~
herendin2
But the company is not selling that and their customers are not buying it.
Then, does that Stripe TOS rule relate to this case?
------
ganeshkrishnan
"Worst" choice? The reason Stripe exists is because PayPal is hard to trust.
Don't even get started on Google Wallet/ Google pay.
------
alphabettsy
Your business is specifically of a restricted type according to their site.
Why was this a surprise at all?
~~~
herendin2
Why and how is their business of a restricted type?
------
briandear
With a domain like “honest.cash” what’s not to love?
~~~
briandear
This is being downvoted however the irony is clear: this business seems to be
a magnet for fraudulent transactions, so “honest” is a bit funny to me. I have
been with Stripe since 2010 and have processed thousands of transactions with
only two or three fraudulent transactions during that time period, this
company is open five minutes and has to go to pretty strict lengths to combat
fraud. It seems like that is a type of business that Stripe is better off not
serving. The higher costs for serving those types of businesses means higher
costs for everyone else who aren’t working in high-risk areas. Perhaps Stripe
could have a higher fee tier for higher risk businesses — such as a 10% fee,
but given that payments are such a compliance nightmare, even that doesn’t
seem like a good idea.
However, thinking outside the box, it seems that the person who wrote the
article might have stumbled on his next startup: Stripe for high risk
startups. If the current market isn’t meeting defined needs, create a company
to meet that need. If such a company doesn’t seem viable, then who could blame
Stripe for not wanting to assume similar risk?
~~~
detaro
It's not their domain, it's a blogging platform they use.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Natural Language Processing in Python - fheisler
http://engineroom.trackmaven.com/blog/monthly-challenge-natural-language-processing/
======
andrewguenther
NLTK is a wonderful toolkit. Its selection of corpera is great and its many
utility functions for processing text are incredibly useful and easily
extendable.
That being said, a lot of the ML, porter, and stemmer implementations are a
bit out of date from the current cutting edge in the field. If you are
interested in using NLTK for serious projects, I highly recommend writing
custom implementations of these modules or using other libraries.
~~~
acosmism
Agreed. I too had given a tutorial on this a while back
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKe4M4iSclc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKe4M4iSclc))
and nltk is a quick way to prototype up something neat,but yes- if you need
more than "toy" functionality, there are currently better tools for the job.
~~~
bane
Thanks for the talk, I enjoyed the video. Do you have any good pointers to
building a named entity extractor with NLTK?
~~~
acosmism
Thank you, I'm glad you you enjoyed it - I hope to have one on more advanced
topics at some point. If you are looking for a named entity extractor sample,
I have a sample from my talk on github: [https://github.com/shanbady/NLTK-
Boston-Python-Meetup/blob/m...](https://github.com/shanbady/NLTK-Boston-
Python-Meetup/blob/master/named_ent_chunker.py)
The sample uses the built-in named entity tagger but nltk also has support for
leveraging the Stanford named entity tagger:
[http://www.nltk.org/api/nltk.tag.html#module-
nltk.tag.stanfo...](http://www.nltk.org/api/nltk.tag.html#module-
nltk.tag.stanford)
~~~
bane
Thanks for the links. Please put me on the list for when a video of your
second talk is out.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Finding micrometeorites in city gutters - noir-york
http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21711633-amateur-enthusiast-advances-planetary-science-finding-micrometeorites-city
======
airbreather
So I am going to try putting a few sets of strong magnets in my gutters just
before my down pipes and inspecting them every few months.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Register of Copyrights: without SOPA, copyright "will ultimately fail" - timwiseman
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/11/register-of-copyrights-without-sopa-copyright-will-ultimately-fail.ars
======
anigbrowl
Full testimony:
[http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/Pallante%2011162011....](http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/Pallante%2011162011.pdf)
Although I strongly suspect that SOPA will stall either in the legislative
pipeline or in the courts, I think it behooves opponents of the legislation to
address the legitimate points raised here about the interests of copyright
holders. The financial cost of creating and launching content into the market
can be considerable, and to the extent that technology facilitates piracy the
economic impetus to produce high-quality content is correspondingly reduced.
Considering that the entertainment industry makes up about 5% of GDP, there's
quite a lot of money at stake.
I share the general opposition to censorship, but what sort of enforcement
mechanisms _would_ be appropriate against organized infringement carried out
for profit?
------
duncan_bayne
There's another argument against SOPA.
------
suivix
I remember this woman speaking in the video stream. She's not ignorant, but
rather heavily biased and convincing enough to sway others to her position.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tesla extends ‘bug bounty’ to energy products, increases payout by 50% - evo_9
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-bug-bounty-energy-products-increases-payout-50-percent/
======
exabrial
> will not void your warranty for security research *
That's incredible!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Region-based Memory Management - yinso
https://www.stephanboyer.com/post/60/region-based-memory-management
======
zde
> When the server is done processing a request, the allocator goes out of
> scope and all memory allocated for that request is deallocated.
Forking servers, reinvented.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cloudflare Reports Massive Slowdown in Network Level DDoS Attacks - IcyApril
https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-new-ddos-landscape/
======
agnokapathetic
After RSnake introduced slowloris in 2009, it’s been something of a minor
miracle that L7 attacks have stayed as rare as they have until now. Don’t
understand why SYN Floods have been the preferred way to DDoS until recently-
they’ve been obsolete for nearly a decade..
~~~
ec109685
Slowiris doesn’t affect an async server like nginx, which Cloudflare deploys.
~~~
dullgiulio
You need to configure it properly, though, otherwise you can still easily hit
the open file descriptors limits in the OS.
------
tinus_hn
> eventually leading to hundreds of Android apps being removed and a process
> started to remove the malware-ridden apps from all devices.
So if you download the wrong app, your phone is now part of a botnet and that
bandwidth you pay for is part of a DDOS attack. Scary.
------
vthallam
I thought this is the older way of doing DDoS, like replicating user's
behaviour and overwhelming the server with repeated requests. And it's very
obvious that any public facing API should be heavily cached and rate limited,
in fact, all the major application frameworks provide easy to implement code
for these.
But yeah, more developers should be aware of the possibility of this.
~~~
b4lancesh33t
I am not a ddos mitigation expert, but I am under the impression that the
remedies you mention are only going to help with relatively small attacks. It
is very inexpensive to buy enough DDOS capacity to saturate a whole server's
CPU just decoding requests. Caching and rate limiting aren't going to help you
much then.
If you're a serious target these days, you basically need to have your
services behind one of the big solutions. Rolling your own is far too
expensive for any but the largest players. Cloudflare, GCE, and I'm sure many
others offer ddos mitigation for grownups.
------
bogomipz
"Cloudflare Reports Massive Slowdown in Ability to Get Publicity From Volume-
metric DDOS Attacks."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Creating a Killer Early-Stage Pitch Deck for Angels & VCs. - dell9000
http://ryanspoon.com/blog/2011/05/03/creating-an-early-stage-pitch-deck/
======
callmeed
This is cool but I have a question I rarely see explained here on HN or
elsewhere: _How do you actually get in front of an Angel or VC to show them
your deck/demo?_
Assuming that one like myself (a) lives outside SV but can visit easily, (b)
has past experience and moderate success bootstrapping, and (c) knows
absolutely no one in the angel/VC circles ... how would you setup a 3 to 5-day
visit to SV in order to pitch potential investors?
Will Ryan Spoon (who wrote this post) even reply to my email? Or is this
advise only for those who are 2 degrees of separation from him?
~~~
colinyoung
Never hurts to try. And there are answers to those questions -- I'll try
below, but I'm sure other places can answer it better.
If you don't know anyone, the best way to get intros is to do an incubator
program. Regardless, people there are generally very nice and most will make
intros pretty easily. But to do a 3-5 day blitz is extremely difficult even
for people with huge rolodexes; especially if you're raising from VCs as the
followup cycle can include up to a half-dozen meetings. And not meeting in
person on those can hurt you because VCs care most about team. I would say
AngelList is probably your best bet for that quick of a blitz, but it's
probably best to budget a week and a half or more.
------
dpapathanasiou
Is "Killer" the new "Rock Star"?
BTW, the original post title is simply: "Creating an Early Stage Pitch Deck"
------
klochner
I saw this reply shortly after it was posted:
"never give out your pitch deck"
<http://twitter.com/#!/rafer/status/65477539711295489>
~~~
count
That seems rather ludicrous.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to find a great job at Google, Facebook, Microsoft? - konkee
http://blog.codility.com/2012/04/bible-of-internships.html
======
konkee
This is like "subsequent part" of this discussion
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2384018>.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Role Playing Game for Self Improvement (weekend project) - lefnire
http://habitrpg.com
Hey HN, been working on a project & could use all you lovelies' feedback :) I was inspired by habit-tracker apps like Joe's Goals, but I wanted something more robust and personally motivating. So I built a habit-tracker which plays like an RPG. As you accomplish goals, you level up. If you fail your goals, you lose hit points. You can buy weapons and armor, etc. Open source (https://github.com/lefnire/habitrpg), built on DerbyJS (http://derbyjs.com/), and uses BrowserQuest's icon sets. Integration with productivity tools primary on the roadmap (https://github.com/lefnire/habitrpg#roadmap).<p>I stress-tested some, but Derby is a work in progress - so bear with me if it goes down.
======
lefnire
Hey HN, been working on a project & could use all you lovelies' feedback :) I
was inspired by habit-tracker apps like Joe's Goals, but I wanted something
more robust and personally motivating. So I built a habit-tracker which plays
like an RPG. As you accomplish goals, you level up. If you fail your goals,
you lose hit points. You can buy weapons and armor, etc. Open source
(<https://github.com/lefnire/habitrpg>), built on DerbyJS
(<http://derbyjs.com/>), and uses BrowserQuest's icon sets. Integration with
productivity tools primary on the roadmap
(<https://github.com/lefnire/habitrpg#roadmap>).
I stress-tested some, but Derby is a work in progress - so bear with me, I'll
restart if it goes down.
------
DevAccount
Looks like a good start buddy. Looks like this life game I shamefully only
made use of for a few days; <http://www.rexbox.co.uk/epicwin/>
How are you going to stop people from just deleting tasks they couldn't do?
Keep it up!
~~~
lefnire
Oh wow, don't know how I missed EpicWin... searched high and low before
deciding to make it myself. Looks like an incredible app - I'll have to borrow
an iPhone & try it out.
As far as deleting tasks they can't do - it's an honor system because you're
only cheating yourself. It's like ticking ever day on Joe's Goals to pretend
you have a habit streak, or entering broccoli for every meal in MyFitnessPal -
defeats the purpose. However, let's say someone is level 10 with good
weapons/armor, and they're struggling under a few goals. They could just
delete those goals and recreate them for a clean slate. The downside here is
that they lose all their historical data on those goals (it keeps a history
graph of your progress), so there's some incentive to use Re-roll instead (or
to just be accountable).
Now, once I get some 3rd-party productivity app integration (Pivotal Tracker,
MyFitnessPal, RescueTime, etc) - those goals will be static (they can't edit
them), and will be updated automatically. So that will lock them down a bit
more. I'm planning on Pivotal & Pomodoro very soon.
Thanks for checking it out DevAccount!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Whiteboard sticker for your laptop - codeinterview
https://sketchcase.com
======
SiVal
I'm not being glib here, but after experimenting with many such solutions over
the years, I've found that the best solution for me is to always carry a
cheap, paper notebook--like one of those black/white-spotted composition
notebooks with cardboard covers and unlined paper--that is about the size of
my laptop lid. I just slide the laptop and notebook together into whatever
backpack or bag I'm using for the laptop.
I always have a variety of pens and pencils with me, and writing/drawing with
high-quality pens & pencils on real paper is better and more convenient in
every way than writing on an equivalent-sized whiteboard surface. I then have
100 pages I can keep or give away instead of one that I have to delete and
reuse, and without all the mess. Plus, I always have a couple of pens in my
pocket, even when I don't have my laptop, so I never end up with a whiteboard
but no markers.
The only time I've found whiteboards more useful than paper are when I needed
a very large surface. If a small surface is good enough, paper works better
for me.
~~~
welpwelp
I agreed but these are different mediums. With paper you can't erase
obviously, so you use significantly more space when free scratching. Hence the
usefulness of the whiteboard.
On a different note, notebooks are great. I converted my wallet into thin
Moleskine notebooks that fit in my pocket super easily. I put my cards and
bills in it. And I always have a pen in me. Archival pens are great. It's good
for doodling too :>
~~~
SiVal
_With paper you can 't erase obviously_
I can, and do, quite easily. I have a twist-out eraser on the end of my pencil
plus an artists' eraser in each pen/pencil bag, so I can make pretty quick
work of some portion of a page, but if I really want to erase the page, I can
do it faster with paper than with a whiteboard: I turn the page.
------
sixdimensional
Actually, this just gave me a crazy idea... what if laptop manufacturers
included something low powered like a boogie board device on the outside of
the screen, which could write / save directly to some small internal storage
of the laptop, and then the resulting notes could be accessible via the laptop
when turned on? Kind of like.. a poor man's tablet on the outside of a laptop?
I wonder the cost of that vs. touch screens / digital pens.
~~~
sumitgt
But, in that case, how would it be different from just drawing on my Surface
with my surface pen?
It's kinda exactly what you need.
~~~
ageofwant
About $1000 dollars last time I checked. Add to that the cost of mental health
issues associated with the use of Microsoft products and its a non-starter.
~~~
mb_72
What experience do you have with using Microsoft products and resultant mental
health issues? I'm guessing none, and it's just another throw-away remark that
is anti-Microsoft, ignorant of the interesting and - in my experience at least
- pro-good-mental health work they've been doing recently.
------
fluxem
I think it's a terrible idea. First, marker ink would be smudge all over
backpack. Second, it's on the other side of the laptop! You wrote an algorithm
on sketchcase and want to implement it. Well, now you have turn your laptop
around every time too see it.
~~~
hota_mazi
Pfft, use a mirror.
devlos melborP
~~~
akovaski
You could also use the front-facing camera on a phone as a mirror in a pinch.
------
mcescalante
I think this is a really good idea, but if you look on eBay you can buy a
200cm by 45cm (~ 78.7 in by 17.7in) vinyl whiteboard sticker for $5. You could
buy this, trim it down and use it on a handful of laptops at a significantly
cheaper cost. There are lots of other listings for "whiteboard vinyl sticker"
but here is the $5 one:
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vinyl-Wall-Sticker-Removable-
Whi...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vinyl-Wall-Sticker-Removable-Whiteboard-
Decals-200X45CM-/361620804352)
Also, I wonder if a "whiteboard magnet" would stick well to a mabook or
aluminum bodied portable - wouldn't leave any residue:
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/17-x-11-Dry-Erase-Magnetic-
Refrigera...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/17-x-11-Dry-Erase-Magnetic-Refrigerator-
Flexible-White-Board-Planner-
Message-/222314810254?hash=item33c2fecb8e:g:Dk8AAOSw4GVYKfWR)
~~~
tgb
Aluminum won't attract the magnet usefully, unfortunately.
~~~
pklausler
Maybe a real hard disk drive will, though.
~~~
Gracana
It'll just slide down slowly. Try it, it's a cool experiment that showcases
eddy currents.
~~~
hathawsh
I like the suggestion for a fun experiment, but I think pklausler was
referring to the fact that strong magnets tend to wipe spinning hard drives,
making magnets a bad idea for non-SSD laptops.
~~~
Gracana
Oh, duh. You're right, I totally misread that. :)
------
Null-Set
Now you can tell applicants that yes they will be coding on a laptop during
the interview.
~~~
devoply
Yes and that's when I walk out of your interview. Some time ago I did an
interview with elementary coding questions, like 2nd year of university stuff.
Was a developer with 15 years of experience. Rage quit. They're like oh, you
got 100% percent on the stuff you attempted, here is a new link to finish it.
And I am like no thanks, have contract work, please send it my way. Not
interested at a job at a place that interviews like this.
~~~
nakovet
I've met several 10+ years developers that couldn't code basic stuff, why
instead of rage quitting you did not say "I don't want sound cocky but this
stuff is really easy for me, do you have anything else?" by rage quitting I
wouldn't trust you contract work, what would prevent you from rage quitting in
a different scenario!?
~~~
hliyan
I agree wholeheartedly. On the flip side, when I interview such candidates, I
usually prefix baseline questions with "This is probably a piece of cake for
someone of your calibre, but please bear with me because it's a part of the
process we got to get out of the way"
~~~
rimantas
A clear indication of process over people.
~~~
pavel_lishin
You gotta weed people who can't code somehow.
------
chris_7
Stickers on laptops usually make Jony Ive sad, and he's sad enough already
being locked in that white room with one set of clothes.
But this one is much better, because it occupies the entire laptop!
~~~
donarb
Stickers on laptops make ME sad. Like Run-DMC sang "Calvin Klein's no friend
of mine, don't want nobody's name on my be-hind!"
~~~
Neliquat
And then followed it up with "My Adidas". But I agree in spirit.
------
asteli
When I had a non-unibody Macbook Pro, I would actually doodle with a dry-erase
marker directly onto my (glass) screen. This was handy for making small
annotations as I was pondering designs, PCB layouts, etc.
Unfortunately for my screen-doodling habit, new MacBooks have some kind of
coating (AR? Oleophobic?) that causes the marker's fluid to bead up, ruining
the effect.
~~~
component
> Unfortunately for my screen-doodling habit, new MacBooks have some kind of
> coating (AR? Oleophobic?) that causes the marker's fluid to bead up, ruining
> the effect.
I can confirm, my mid 2014 MBP screen is _ruined_. Tried alcohol, screen
wipers (which actually made it worse)
I am this close to using a detergent (I know I shouldn't). Any suggestions?
~~~
achow
'Staingate'
Apple is replacing the affected screens for free, I had mine replaced few
months back (late 2013, 13" Retnina Macbook Pro).
[https://9to5mac.com/2015/10/19/staingate-retina-macbook-
scre...](https://9to5mac.com/2015/10/19/staingate-retina-macbook-screen-
repairs/)
~~~
dhimes
Why is this being downvoted? Is it incorrect? If not it seems useful.
~~~
felipebueno
Staingate is a real thing and @achow's comment is correct and is very useful
and that's probably what is happening with @component's mbp.
~~~
component
Sadly, yes it is "staingate"
Did a bit more digging and found a site [1] which has a gallery of affected
MBP, showing the different levels of "staingate"
[1] [http://staingate.org](http://staingate.org)
------
snarf21
I think this is pretty neat and love all things whiteboard but the one
annoyance is that I now need to carry around a whiteboard marker and eraser
(if you don't want crap all over your fingers from erasing). Note: I don't
think you can solve that problem.
And now I probably am carrying a backpack which makes paper + pen better. I
think the #1 benefit of a whiteboard is the size. I can draw huge diagrams and
everyone in the room can see and not have to huddle around a piece of paper.
I still think it is interesting....
~~~
incongruity
Marker? No, you need that. Eraser? Kleenex is a good add to any bag – but you
could also figure out some way of having a removable plastic overlay to
preserve the diagram...
But, ultimately, your point about pen & paper was my thought too... And then I
decided that ~$16 after shipping was cheap enough to try, even if I later
decided paper was indeed better – so I ordered it.
------
DonHopkins
You can get a quart of chalkboard paint for $15.
You can even recycle broken laptops by painting the screen!
[http://www.target.com/p/devine-color-by-valspar-1-quart-
chal...](http://www.target.com/p/devine-color-by-valspar-1-quart-chalkboard-
paint-coal/-/A-16654685)
~~~
riebschlager
Ha! Kinda related, I made my niece and nephew wooden MacBooks based on that
same idea.
[http://the816.com/wooden-macbooks/](http://the816.com/wooden-macbooks/)
~~~
solipsism
"oh... Thanks uncle riebschlager... a wooden MacBook..."
~~~
riebschlager
Yeah. That's pretty much how it went down.
------
cnojima
Hasn't this been created already? [http://gizmodo.com/the-best-laptop-sticker-
turns-your-comput...](http://gizmodo.com/the-best-laptop-sticker-turns-your-
computer-into-a-whit-1685194189)
~~~
JoBrad
Looks like they owe you some commission: every size of both models is sold
out! ;)
------
Cshelton
This has been around for awhile now and you can actually order them today:
[http://www.drawattention.co/](http://www.drawattention.co/) (aside from them
being sold out...)
~~~
ChristianGeek
Those have a logo on them though (although the blackboard one is cool too).
Fun sales copy!
~~~
stablemap
It seems to me that the logo is a second sticker.
------
glibgil
The smallest whiteboard combined with the dirtiest laptop? No thanks!
------
cconcepts
I dont get the indicators that its a new product. These guys look like they
have been doing this since 2014:
[http://www.drawattention.co](http://www.drawattention.co)
------
jasonwilk
Instead of waiting, you can just order a small Writeyboard now which is
exactly the same thing.
[http://www.Writeyboards.com](http://www.Writeyboards.com)
------
chiefalchemist
What I'd like to see is a stealthy monitor with case (or just a universal case
for monitor or laptop). The case, fully open, could latch open and the back
flat side would be a whiteboard or even clalk board. Kinda like an artist's
portfolio case, but for devs.
In addition the case, if laptop size, would be semi drop proof. The point
being, I'd travel more by bike if I didn't hear a fall would total my
hardware.
Finally, big ask here, make it insulated. Leaving my machine in a cold car
while snowboarding means I generally like to wait a bit til the machine comes
back to room temp.
Yes. I've seen hardened cases (a la for DJs & musicians) but they're often
overkill, AND I want the outside to serve a purpose (I.e., whiteboard).
Keep it in the $100 range and you have a winner.
------
RUG3Y
I think it's a neat idea but personally, I'll stick to a legal pad. I use them
quite a bit, but not enough to justify switching to something like this and
then taking photos of my work.
------
nirav72
So basically I have to either flip it down to see what someone drew on the
whiteboard or turn it around. Pen and paper work just as well.
------
Uptrenda
Ive been using my laptop like this for years. I just bought some white plastic
film you use to protect text books with and stuck it to the back of my
Thinkpad. Works great for todo lists. I also agree that they should build a
laptop like this where every free surface can be written on as a white board.
It is surprising just how much I use this.
------
mansilladev
Comes with free erasers: your shirt, arms and backpack.
------
keithpeter
I liked the roadmap on the OA's page.
Others have mentioned the stick-on dry wipe vinyl whiteboards that are
available. For walls there is also 'magic whiteboard' \- a roll of plastic
material that sticks to the wall using static electricity.
I'd mention the 'mini-whiteboards' sold for use in classrooms - usually
A4/Letter size. These are about 2mm thick and can be used as clipboards as
well with a suitable bulldog clip. My final idea would be to get a map case
like the one that hikers use to keep their maps dry and put completed
whiteboards in that for reference.
Personally, I prefer paper/pen &c
------
jacek
Looks like a solution to a non-existing problem.
~~~
stephengillie
Looks like this submarine advertisement has surfaced.
------
King-Aaron
We used to make whiteboards at a printing company I worked for. It was mainly
just white SAV (self adhesive vinyl) with a laminate over the top.
Ten dollars is an awful lot to pay for that, when you're talking about just a
laptop size. You'd be looking at much less than a dollar in materials.
Edit: Though the fella obviously recognises this, and has a DIY on the page...
And I can see people buying them for the convenience element. Still though...
------
bostand
Or you can use a laptop with touch screen and/or a digital pen...
And Google and microsoft have note taking apps that makes your hand writing
searchable.
Edit: wow, some people on HN _really_ dislike touchscreens...
~~~
codeinterview
I have those as well but they're used for different purposes.
~~~
bostand
But from my experience this is exactly how people are using touchscreen
laptops in meetings.
I don't see the point of adding a sticker to your laptop when it already can
be used as a whiteboard with the added benefits of digitalisation (backup,
share, undo, search...)
------
blauditore
Ideally, this could be done on the screen itself. Using a 2-in-1-laptop like
Lenovo Yogas you can position the screen directly in front of you, and it has
a touchscreen (obviously).
I guess the problem is that even with digital pens, haptic feedback and maybe
precision are not up to par with the real thing. But those things might
improve a lot in the next 10-20 years, there seems to be a decent amount of
research going on for the former.
------
mrmondo
I used to have a similar whiteboard stick on my old MacBook back in 2011 - it
was really useful as long as I remembered to bring a whiteboard marker with me
to meetings. It'd be nice to have an eink boogieboad like wrap instead but the
problem with those it's it's erase all or nothing so, I'm sticking with
ordering a new whiteboard wrap from here as they're so cheap.
------
choult
For the past five years I've been working at white-veneered desks - and for
the vast majority of that time I've actually been using my desk as a dry-wipe
board. It doesn't make too much of a mess when it rubs off on my hands, and
it's a fantastic way to quickly sketch out a to-do list or draw a diagram for
a colleague.
------
knieveltech
Google reports a 75% increase in searches on the terms "how to get dry erase
marker out of clothing"
------
jgord
I wonder about the low-tech use case of :
writing on this wb surface on laptop, then re-covering with clear plastic to
make it semi-permanent [ preventing wipe off with handling / slipcase /
backpack ]
Does the original peel-off wb material cover would re-adhere ? .. if so,
handy.
------
gthtjtkt
You can get a giant roll of this stuff on Amazon for $6 less than your shipped
price.
And they even include a marker...
------
groby_b
Just what I want to do - draw private info on the back of my laptop and lug it
around. Anybody got a way to print CC numbers onto my shoes?
(IOW: I think it's a cool hack that fails to consider actual implications
outside of the immediate problem solved.)
------
I_am_tiberius
My fear would be that my notes are being erased when putting the notebook into
my backpack.
~~~
codeinterview
A lot of people actually share this concern and you are right if you're
planning on keeping what's written. I personally use it for practicing coding
interview questions and brainstorming.
~~~
I_am_tiberius
I bought a whiteboard 2 weeks ago for my home "office". Thinking about it, it
would have made sense to buy a big sticker instead which I can stick on one of
my windows. For sure that would have been much cheaper. Plus, I would not have
needed to drill holes in the wall.
~~~
cr0sh
I hope by "whiteboard" you meant a 4x8 sheet of melamine bathroom/kitchen tile
underlay sheet - and not one of the more expensive kind with the fancy
aluminum borders (which, if you wanted to replicate those, you could find the
parts in the hardware aisle of the home improvement store)...?
~~~
I_am_tiberius
No unfortunately I bought one of those expensive ones.
~~~
cr0sh
Well - maybe next time?
The 4x8 sheets of melamine backer board is cheap, cheap, cheap! Where I
currently work, we have 80 linear feet of the stuff on our walls in our dev
area (held up with nails and construction adhesive). It isn't fancy, but my
employer believes more in results than being "impressive" (plus, we don't get
any clients back here anyhow).
------
apapli
Cute. But impractical, not to mention messy. They should allow you to put your
company's logo on it, as it would be a cool alternative to branded coffee
cups, pens and mouse pads.
------
socialentp
Cool idea, but you might want to revise your messaging: "I could make one for
them but making them by hand is REALLY time consuming." "Handcrafted by
Charles Han"
------
chewxy
Fascinating. Other people has come to the same conclusion I see. Here's mine
posted on reddit a few days ago :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5q8evm/comment/d...](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5q8evm/comment/dcxeuf3)
------
wattt
Just get a touchscreen already. Then you can draw like on every other device
you currently own.
------
vans
I love having pen marks on my shirt when i'm carrying my laptop
------
amingilani
I'm so excited. Ordered this, exactly what I needed!
------
5706906c06c
I use a pencil on my MacBook, and then erase it.
------
rubyfan
This is a fantastic idea.
------
codeinterview
Woah!
[https://www.producthunt.com/posts/sketchcase](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/sketchcase)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Where should I start learning Assembly? - shinvou
So, yeah, where to start? I know C, Obj.-C, Java and Python. I am self-taught. Now I want to get in Reverse Engineering and I don't know where to get started. Feedback and help is highly appreciated!
======
revelation
Reverse engineering is quite a different skill set from assembly. Unless you
are reverse engineering malware, whatever you are analyzing is unlikely to
have been written in assembly or to be heavily obfuscated. Then it's more
about knowing how certain high-level programming constructs (think virtual
function calls in C++) will be translated into assembly by a compiler, what
residual information there might be left in the binary or what all that noise
is you are seeing (think C++ templates, destructors called for stack-allocated
variables..).
For many reverse engineering projects, assembly might be a wholly uselss
skill, since whatever you are looking at is actually MSIL or running on Python
with its own embedded interpreter. Here assembly only serves you to quickly
tell you would be wasting your time :)
~~~
asdasf
You have to know assembly to be able to understand what you are looking at.
Yes, you need to know more than just assembly, but you absolutely need to know
assembly.
------
penberg
If you already know C, you can start out by looking at the machine code
generated by your compiler with "objdump -d" on Linux and "otool -tV" on Mac.
Start experimenting by writing out C constructs like functions, loops, switch
statements, etc., and just looking at what the generated code looks like.
Of course, to do that, you need to find the manual for your machine
architecture. The x86 manuals are, for example, available here:
[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/architectu...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/architectures-
software-developer-manuals.html)
You also then start to notice things like the operating system specific
application binary interfaces (ABI):
[http://www.x86-64.org/documentation/abi.pdf](http://www.x86-64.org/documentation/abi.pdf)
and object file formats such as ELF that's used in Linux:
[http://www.skyfree.org/linux/references/ELF_Format.pdf](http://www.skyfree.org/linux/references/ELF_Format.pdf)
or Mach-O used in Mac OS X:
[https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/develo...](https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/developertools/conceptual/machoruntime/reference/reference.html)
You can also do the same thing with the JVM and look at its JIT-generated
machine code with the '-XX:+PrintCompilation' option:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13086690/understanding-
th...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13086690/understanding-the-output-
of-xxprintcompilation)
------
galapago
[http://nongnu.askapache.com/pgubook/ProgrammingGroundUp-1-0-...](http://nongnu.askapache.com/pgubook/ProgrammingGroundUp-1-0-booksize.pdf)
~~~
robinh
This is probably the best guide (and I've read a lot of them) to actually
writing assembly on your average PC one can get. I definitely recommend
reading it.
------
csmithuk
I started with the following book:
[http://www.z80.info/zip/zaks_book.pdf](http://www.z80.info/zip/zaks_book.pdf)
Wonderful book from which a lot of knowledge is applicable to other
architectures straight away. It teaches you about planning, control structure
implementation and the maths behind it all as well.
~~~
snoopybbt
The glorious, good old Z80. Highly recommended.
Also, if you get one of those Z80-powered Texas Instruments calculator, you
could do pretty neat things.
~~~
acjohnson55
That's how I got my start. After TI-BASIC, Z80 assembly was the second
programming language I learned, at age 12. It turned out to be a great
foundation. For one thing, it was fairly easy to understand, from a syntactic
perspective. Secondly, it gave me a much better foundation for understanding
the lower-level aspects of C, letting me concentrate more on understanding the
more complicated abstractions, and what they actually represent.
------
traviscj
Code by Charles Petzold [1] is a fantastic introduction. It isn't so much the
nitty gritty "this opcode performs this operation, and these are all the
tricks to making it do things, edge cases and things you should worry about"
and more along the lines of "what opcodes should a CPU have, and how do those
translate into electricity flowing through physical wires?" I feel like really
thinking through that book made MIPS and x86 assembly much easier for me.
1 - [http://www.charlespetzold.com/code/](http://www.charlespetzold.com/code/)
~~~
drivers99
In addition, if you like "Code", I'd recommend The Pattern on the Stone by
Danny Hillis (creator of Thinking Machines' Connection Machine supercomputer).
It's much shorter than "Code" but covers basically the same ground much more
quickly, but Code might be better first because it really explains it
thoroughly.
------
minikomi
Although I cannot claim to know a lot,
[http://microcorruption.com](http://microcorruption.com) was a very nice "fun"
way to at least start with a small, easy to grasp instruction set.
~~~
Scaevolus
It's a great way to get into reversing and assembly of you like the "series of
puzzles" format of a ctf.
------
erbdex
1\. i suggest diving a little into a processor architecture first. Z-80 and
8085 are almost the same, conceptually. Once you grasp the fundamentals, you
can move onto x86. It too builds upon the architectures mentioned previously.
Added concepts are- pipelining, segmentation etc. One of the best sources for
me has been- [http://www.amazon.com/Microprocessors-Principles-
Application...](http://www.amazon.com/Microprocessors-Principles-Applications-
Charles-Gilmore/dp/0028018370)
2\. Knowing how the microprocessor works comes really handy while coding
assembly as you can't 'catch exceptions' out there. It is like treading a
land-mined area and nothing can replace the knowledge of the fundamental
terrain- the architecture.
3\. Since you know C, you can start with some serious gdb usage, as mentioned
by @penberg.
4\. Then find your sweet spot between these two ends. You could start with
embedded robotics, another viable hobby could be IoT application. Two added
advantages of these over 'theoretical' assembly language learning are that-
a) You are doing something with a real-scenario implementation, so you're
surely hooked.
b) You can eventually mold a business model around it if you end up with
something really innovative.
------
ChuckMcM
Start with a computer architecture introduction. The McGraw Hill Computer
Science series book "Computer Architecture" did a good job of creating a
fictional processor and then designing the machine code for it. "Assembly" is
just a way to represent machine code in text files.
That way you will learn what it is the computer is trying to do, and how
constraints on how it is built change that.
Then I'd suggest some cheap 8 bit Microprocessors like the AVR series and the
PIC series from Atmel and Microchip respectively, (the AVR has solid C support
so its probably a better single choice, but the PIC has weirdness associated
with architecture constraints which is good to understand as well).
Once you are a pro writing AVR assembly code, then grab a copy of x86 assembly
and a description of the Pentium architecture. To do it proper justice start
with an 8086 assembly book, then a 286 assembly book, then a 386 one, and
finally a Pentium one. That will let you see how the architecture evolved to
deal with the availability of transistors.
------
forgottenpaswrd
Get IDA pro and start reversing things with some clear objective. I learned a
lot having friends that knew and competing with them to remove limits on
commercial software when I was a teenager.
Making trial version complete and so on. Some times it was really easy(just
finding a jmp and changing it), other times we had to compare with the
complete program, finding code blocks,patching the trial and making all
checksums and stuff to work.
None of the software that we cracked was released to the public, it was just
for fun.
At the time there was little exercises called "crackme" for exercising your
abilities.
It takes at least over a year of work to start being really good at this, and
is not like Obj.C, Java or Python, or even c, but way more tedious. Without
having friends on this and clear objectives I would had found it boring.
It would be probably a better idea to buy a micro processor and code simple
things in assembly, like blinking LEDs.
------
nanofortnight
Linux Assembly Tutorial:
[http://docs.cs.up.ac.za/programming/asm/derick_tut/](http://docs.cs.up.ac.za/programming/asm/derick_tut/)
Introductory Book:
[http://www.amazon.com/x/dp/0763772232/](http://www.amazon.com/x/dp/0763772232/)
Reference:
[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/architectu...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/architectures-
software-developer-manuals.html)
------
stcredzero
First, find _Core Wars_ and play it until you can beat the "tutorial"
programs. Hell, I should reimplement Core Wars as a JavaScript app doing
CodeCombat style instruction for assembly.
~~~
diydsp
Yeah, an MMO Core wars could be fun :)
------
brudgers
As an option to jumping into real world assembly language there is Knuth's
MMIX [and MIX]. It provides access to the underlying concepts alongside
structured exercises. One might say it's an "onramp to the foundations of
computer science." I prefer "gateway drug to TAoCP" however.
[http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/mmix.html](http://www-cs-
faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/mmix.html)
The first fascicle is a free download and the place to start.
------
khetarpal
I would recommend picking a project that you can do only in Assembly. For me,
this was creating a special waveform on a microchip controller. I had to
create a custom 800kHz signal using a 16MHz clock, so there was no way other
than to respect each and every clock cycle, and make the most of it.
The key is to choose a project that you are excited about. If you pick another
blah assembly tutorial, without the excitement of a project pushing you, your
enthusiasm will evaporate sooner or later.
------
zaptheimpaler
Check out the bomb lab from CMUs systems course. Its an assignment
specifically designed to teach you assembly and gdb via reverse engineering a
binary "bomb". There are 6 levels, and you need to figure out the right
password for each level by reading the assembly/inspecting the program via
gdb.
[http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/public/labs.html](http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/public/labs.html)
------
syncopate
A good way to learn asm is through books but there are not many for current
architectures (especially x64, except the official Intel manuals which are
quite good but also hard to read). Nevertheless, there are some on ARM which I
can recommend, namely: ARM System Developer's Guide by Sloss, Symes and
Wright. ARM Assembly Language by Hohl. ARM SoC Architecture by Furber.
IDA Pro is the industry standard for reverse engineering but it also is
expensive (like USD $2k). There is a free version but it doesn't offer 64bit,
so not really an option for modern ObjC or Intel computers. As you've
mentioned ObjC chances are you work on OS X. IDA pro is not working well on OS
X (the recommended way is to use the Windows version via virtualbox and not
the OS X version). Still, Hopper.app is a great alternative on OS X. Not as
good as IDA, but it has a Python interface, GDB support, and decompile support
for ARM, Intel (and some knowledge regarding Objc). And it's only ~USD$100.
[There is also a Windows version of hopper.app but it seems not yet ready to
use, as I've only heard bad things about it there so far.]
------
csmatt
For MIPS (recommended for starting out), check out my post. It walks you
through creating the initial program in C all the way through finding its
vulnerability and exploiting it. The buffer overflow building is done in
Python through Bowcaster.
[http://csmatt.com/notes/?p=96](http://csmatt.com/notes/?p=96) (also check out
the links at the end). Good luck!
------
maggit
I'm writing a tutorial in x86-64 assembly on OS X that you might enjoy:
[https://plus.google.com/+MagnusHoff/posts/9gxSUZMJUF2](https://plus.google.com/+MagnusHoff/posts/9gxSUZMJUF2)
Its focus is actually writing assembly on an acutal computer, with the goal of
implementing a snake game.
------
svantana
If you're on a mac, XCode has a really nice feature: using the Assistant
Editor (press the "bowtie icon"), you can get (dis-)assembly parallell to your
source code and step through it with the debugger. A really convenient way of
learning what's going on, and also understanding potential inefficiencies!
------
eximius
Well, that depends how comfortable you are thinking in terms of machine code.
It takes a completely different mindset because you're now literally dealing
with blocks of memory -- even more so than C.
It also depends how steep of a learning curve you want to encounter. I,
personally, have not yet played with x86 assembly because the documentation
for them is so unfriendly for beginners. To that end, when I want to play
around in Assembly and learn techniques for that level of programming, I
usually play with the DCPU
([http://dcpu.com/dcpu-16/](http://dcpu.com/dcpu-16/)). It's fake and was
designed for a (sadly) not-to-be-made game. But it is an absolute joy to
program in.
Play around with that until you're comfortable and THEN tackle x86.
------
psuter
As an intermediate step, you could also study LLVM bitcode. It should give you
a good idea of what assembly languages "feel" like without tying you to a
particular architecture. It is easy enough to write smallish programs in the
ASCII format and assemble them with llvm-as.
------
noonespecial
I'd second what others have said and go with a micro like an avr or a pic.
Tons of open source support and a small system you can totally "own" will help
you understand not just the code but how computers execute code at the lowest
human-legible level.
------
en4bz
Id start with ARM first. Its a lot easier to pick up and is a lot easier than
x86. Also take a look at the C++ itanium abi. It can be found on the GCC
website. It explains the rules of going from C++ to assembly.
------
Adrock
I like Randall Hyde's style:
[http://www.amazon.com/Art-Assembly-Language-Randall-
Hyde/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Art-Assembly-Language-Randall-
Hyde/dp/1593272073/)
~~~
csmithuk
I disagree. It diverges into HLA (high level assembly) which is pretty much a
macro monoculture that is tied to this book and nothing else. I was rather
disappointed with the book.
------
aosmith
I found this on HN a while back... This is a fun way to get your feet wet:
[https://microcorruption.com/](https://microcorruption.com/)
I would also grab a copy of Art of Assembly Language.
------
znowi
I can suggest this free book called "PC Assembly Language" by Dr Paul Carter.
[http://www.drpaulcarter.com/pcasm/](http://www.drpaulcarter.com/pcasm/)
_The tutorial has extensive coverage of interfacing assembly and C code and
so might be of interest to C programmers who want to learn about how C works
under the hood. All the examples use the free NASM (Netwide) assembler. The
tutorial only covers programming under 32-bit protected mode and requires a
32-bit protected mode compiler._
------
eru
Try having some fun with Core War.
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_War))
------
golem_de
As always learning by doing is the best, look at this old school website:
[http://www.japheth.de/index.html](http://www.japheth.de/index.html) Aside of
it's manual, he also recommends the (partially free) book
[http://www.phatcode.net/res/223/files/html/toc.html](http://www.phatcode.net/res/223/files/html/toc.html)
------
nedzadk
[http://flatassembler.net/](http://flatassembler.net/) is very good assembler
(linux, win, dos)
[http://flatassembler.net/docs.php](http://flatassembler.net/docs.php) is good
place to start and
[http://board.flatassembler.net/](http://board.flatassembler.net/) is very
good place to explore
------
castor_pilot
I enjoyed Jeff Duntemann's "Assembly Language Step-by-Step". I see there is a
3rd edition. Nice writing style and overall fun read.
~~~
EdgarVerona
Yes! I came in here to recommend that one as well. He does an excellent job of
not only talking about the mechanics of the language, but also the system
components to which the mechanics directly relate: and he does so in a way
that is both easy to understand and thorough. Such a good book.
------
yomritoyj
I found it very useful to read the Intel software developer's manual to get an
understanding of the instruction set. If doing this for the x86 architecture
seems too daunting at first, a fun alternative is to read the manual for the
AVR microcontroller which powers the Arduino and then program an Arduino in
assembly.
------
bobowzki
A good place to start programming assembly are on micro controllers (Arduino
etc.). They have a more limited set of instructions, registers etc, and an
easy to grasp memory layout. The development environments also often come with
a pretty good debugger/simulator so you can step through your code and we how
it works.
Good luck!
------
mpl
This isn't the most aesthetic site, but the content really is top-notch. If
you really want to learn assembly (MIPS, in particular), I can't recommend
this enough:
[http://chortle.ccsu.edu/AssemblyTutorial/index.html](http://chortle.ccsu.edu/AssemblyTutorial/index.html)
------
jonnycowboy
It's in french, but... [http://lemoidului.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/lecon-au-
plus-pre...](http://lemoidului.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/lecon-au-plus-pres-du-
bit-streamer-audio-sur-attiny-15l/#more-1422)
------
fromdoon
I highly recommend Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective
[http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Systems-Programmers-
Perspecti...](http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Systems-Programmers-Perspective-
Edition/dp/0136108040)
------
neals
Because Transport Tycoon is written in Assembly by Chris Sawyer. (I know,
pretty amazing right?)
------
duffdevice
1988?
------
gaius
Which assembly? x86, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS?
Personally my favourites are 6502
([http://skilldrick.github.io/easy6502/](http://skilldrick.github.io/easy6502/))
and 68k ([http://www.easy68k.com/](http://www.easy68k.com/)) tho' neither of
these are realistically of any commercial use.
~~~
mar77i
6502 is great for getting into assembly. It counts as tiny and I've done a
great deal of things on the c64 including fixed point arithmetics, cellular
automata and the like. Also a good place to start your "descent" into low-
level code that article that was recently on here,
[http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/cdescent/](http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/cdescent/)
------
fuj
x86 ? This should get you started:
[http://www.asmcommunity.net/](http://www.asmcommunity.net/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Layoffs in the Bay Area? - jekdoce
Are you seeing a rise in layoffs in the Bay Area as of lately? I'm aware of at least Cisco, eBay, Microsoft and NetApp. Any thoughts on how this might affect the extremely high house prices?
======
raincom
Economy affects home prices in the far away prices first: tracy, stockton,
brentwood, etc. It does not impact home prices in, say, Palo Alto, that much,
because homeowners in Palo Alto can hang on to their homes during the
downtime.
I have not heard much about layoffs. Yes, Microsoft Mountain View has moved
employees to Redmond. Netapp been laying off since 2011. Cisco is the same
thing.
Unless the stock market crashes, the economy can absorb all developers, etc.
Middle management, I donno.
~~~
throwaway8843
The 2 big companies to watch for layoffs this year are Paypal and Yahoo. Could
be thousands each.
Paypal is just grossly overstaffed.
Yahoo is under pressure from investors to return the Alibaba proceeds to
investors and cut their staff in half. (Some investors would like Yahoo to
shut down and sell their campus off. Yahoo has no value as a going concern.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An alternative argument for why women leave STEM - nabla9
https://medium.com/@kjmorenz/is-it-really-just-sexism-an-alternative-argument-for-why-women-leave-stem-cccdf066d8b1
======
GCA10
Thanks, Karen Morenz, for providing a unified, panoramic view of the ways that
the standard academic career progression short-changes many female scientists,
even if each step along the way seems to make sense.
It's worth taking a look at three other professions with long, high-intensity
pathways from apprentice to master --all of which have been wrestling with the
same challenges. They are management consulting, law and medicine. I've
written about them elsewhere.
In medicine, there's been a surge of female participation (and leadership) in
specialties such as dermatology, psychiatry and radiology, where it's
relatively easier to rearrange hours and training regimens to be family
compatible. There's been less progress in surgery, where hellish hours are
considered part of the journey.
In law, some firms have been experimenting with a blurring of the boundaries
between associate and partner, so that there's a middle level at which women
can enter into motherhood without tanking their career chances. (In the
traditional model, close to 40% of entry-level associates are female, but few
of them stick around to make partner.)
I'm wondering if either of those models is transferable to STEM academia. Are
there particular sub-disciplines where professional success and sane hours
might be more compatible? Similarly, are there tenure-track or quasi-tenure
track job titles that split the difference in tolerable ways?
I haven't researched these well enough to have clear answers. But it's worth
discussing.
~~~
entee
I agree with this and the subtlety of the OP’s argument. There is clearly a
problem, there are clearly many contributors, I have personally seen The OP
situation play out with my female friends/colleagues in STEM (and other “high
power” sectors). This does NOT discount that sexism still is a problem nor
that there may be cultural/societal norms that influence the family planning
issue.
It’s a complicated issue, it needs to be tackled on many fronts. As men in the
field we should advocate for those things Karen recommends, namely flexible
hours, obscenely convenient high quality childcare, and other supports to make
a career not the death of family.
Even if you disagree that there’s a problem here (and I think you’re wrong)
how would these changes cause harm? Wouldn’t it just be a better world if
people were less stressed by these things?
~~~
detoxdetox
Lost in the modern rush for status and money, "obscenely convenient high
quality daycare" used to be called "Motherhood" and was supplied by Mothers
themselves. Some would argue, the most valuable contribution to society, even
if not directly monetized.
To sustain a healthy population, we used to need 10 children per fertile
woman, which made "stay at home Mother" an obvious necessity for the vast
majority of women. In modern times, we get by with 2 children per fertile
woman, and that frees up a lot of female energy to be channeled elsewhere. It
is high time to recognize that 2 children is still a lot of effort and make
room for Mothers to take care of their own children.
Instead, we are soft forcing Mothers to drop their kids in the care of poorly
paid strangers at the earliest convenience, to spend their full time energy
enriching faceless shareholders. And have the gall to call this arrangement
"female empowerment".
~~~
maire
Non-working mothers is a modern anomaly. It used to be a sign of wealth for a
man to have a non-working wife. That is why the newly affluent men of the
mid-20th century wanted it so much. They came out of the great depression,
fought a great war, and wanted a wife at home. You should not judge all of
history by this one era.
The work of child care used to fall on the entire extended family. The nuclear
family reduced the flexibility in raising children. It was further reduced by
a lack of work-life balance for both fathers and mothers. When women started
working (again) the lack of flexibility fell on the mothers to fix.
In my own life - I worked, my mother worked, my grandmothers worked, and my
great grandmothers worked. I had flexibility through daycare, my awesome
husband, my awesome mother, and my awesome employers. I know they are all
awesome because when my daughter (a software engineer) faced the same issues,
her employer was not at all flexible. She quit work to stay at home with her
three boys. I have a bunch of engineering friends who faced the same issues as
my daughter. I originally thought they left the workforce out of choice and
now I know they did not.
~~~
detoxdetox
Of course! But that's only a tiny minority of wealthy women. Nobody is
claiming that, historically, women did not work. It's just that female work
was performed in proximity of their young children and interweaved with their
care. Which is work in itself as well.
The historical norm of peasant societies is gendered work roles. Roughly
speaking, the male works in the fields and the female works around the house /
village. This pattern is even present across age groups, not uncommon to see
10 year boys herding the cows to pasture, and 10 year girls milking the cows
at home. While I'm aware there are task and/or region and/or period specific
exceptions, we're talking of the general pattern of [european] peasant
societies here.
Women working away from their house and young children is the prevalent modern
anomaly.
~~~
axguscbklp
Working around the house/village is still work. Male peasants for the most
part don't work outside the house/village either. They usually work on fields
that relatively close to where they live. And a large fraction of the women
work alongside them. Older men and women - grandpas and grandmas, etc. - do a
lot of the childrearing while the younger women work.
------
tharne
I think the author buried the lede here. My biggest takeaway from the article
is that you'd have to be an absolute sucker to work in academia given how
poorly you'll be treated. Each person that puts up with this only makes the
problem worse, giving at least tacit approval to the status quo. If folks were
to start opting out of academia in larger numbers for jobs in private
industry, schools would be forced to improve working conditions.
Unlike lower-skilled workers, the kind of person who even has the opportunity
to get a PhD is also likely to have other good opportunities should they
choose to take them. Academics should improve their lot and that of others by
voting with their feet.
~~~
hguant
>My biggest takeaway from the article is that you'd have to be an absolute
sucker to work in academia given how poorly you'll be treated.
Every now and then I get an overwhelming sense of guilt when I talk to/think
about my friends who are engaged in academia or pursuing advanced degrees (I'm
28, for reference).
The crazy workloads they have, the insane restrictions on how they can do
their jobs, and the cut-throat nature of the industry means that they're
working so much harder than I am, and are either doing their part to advance
the grand sum of human knowledge, or are training to literally save peoples
lives...and I'm sitting here, a college drop out, getting paid _way_ more than
they're making, in an industry where I will never have any fears about job
security, playing with networking equipment and writing about it.
~~~
Traster
I worked in a company for a while that hired lots of people out of academia.
The fascinating thing was that despite the vast majority of candidates being
smart and incredibly well qualified, a massive chunk of them had been so tuned
to the stupid hoops you have to jump through for academia that they were near
worthless in industry. Whether that was the complete inability to treat other
people as equals, or just completely unable to apply themselves to actually
build something that could ship. Academia can be a real trap.
~~~
buzzkillington
If I had a dollar for every time someone mentioned prestige for why we should
be doing something I'd have had enough to fund one of those dumb projects.
------
ThrustVectoring
There's a big tendency to ignore the price at which career success is sold.
You have to give up more fulfilling and creative work, perhaps, or spend long
hours in front of a screen on difficult yet boring tasks, or put in years and
years of all-encompassing work in various qualification gauntlets. Not having
paid the price for fame in academic STEM, I have no jealousy of the success
these people have found - they have their fame, I have my free time.
I think a big issue in the study of gender differences in work is that it is
_much_ easier to quantify the salary earned than the price one must pay in
order to be successful in the field. About the best you can do is compare sub-
populations that have paid roughly the same price - eg, urban childless single
college-educated adults. At that point, studies generally show an
insignificant gender difference in wages and success.
So, why is there a gendered component to participation in high-pay/high-
sacrifice fields? I've not seen any sort of hard data, so I'd have to
speculate. If you made me single out a candidate for investigation, I'd have
to look into the how the heterosexual dating market will asymmetrically treat
career success. People respond to incentives, and dating success is one hell
of an incentive.
~~~
aratakareigen
Yeah, I'm super uninformed here, but single men's expectations of potential
partners are totally the prime suspect here.
Anecdote: My uncle explicitly stated on his dating profile that he was looking
for women _with masters degrees_ who were willing to stay at home. I have no
idea why he wanted that or why my dad's sister agreed, but this kind of demand
is oddly common.
~~~
ThrustVectoring
> single men's expectations of potential partners are totally the prime
> suspect here.
It's both genders; women do not lack agency in the dating market. It'd be as
fair to make "my partner should be willing to give up their career to start a
family" as the default and blame the dynamic on women - after all, they prefer
men who are unwilling to compromise in the pursuit of their career.
I try to avoid either, and just mention that this axis has a gendered
component in terms of both what people do and desire.
------
lordnacho
One thing that she touched on that I've thought a lot about recently is the
age at which we have kids. My father passed away a couple of weeks ago, and I
compare him to his brother. My uncle had his first kid 10 years younger than
my dad, and he ended up with the fourth one being older than me. He's got 10
grandchildren, the oldest of which is an adult now. My dad's grandchildren
will never know him in any real way.
Since the funeral I've thought about this a lot. Our later-life relationships
will be affected by the age at which we had kids. I'm sure this is in the
minds of a lot of people in this economic age. There's a lot of "investing in
your career" where the equation doesn't account for this.
I wish we could have an economy where this was easier. Say you could have your
kids early, in your 20s, yet still progress your career. Perhaps pay for it
with working to an older age, which should be possible with some improved
health outcomes. Along with a flexible education system that allowed you come
in and out. And perhaps incentives for firms to let people in and out, instead
of the constant career grind that requires people to constantly push. Some of
the finance and legal tracks seem to be for people who are expected to die at
45, like some weird victorian dystopia.
~~~
burlesona
I think about this a lot as well. My wife and I decided to have our first
child at 30, which is fairly early compared to our peers. Economically it
would have been better to wait, we’ve each had career opportunities we
couldn’t take advantage of because of having children, and if somehow we could
have waited until 40 I think we would have had an easier time economically.
But, physically and emotionally, I wish we could have had kids at 22 or so. Of
course we hadn’t even met so this is pure wishful thinking. But still. Raising
a family is a real joy, but it’s also very physically demanding (even for
men), and the younger you are the easier the physical aspect is. Also, we know
a small number of people who had children very young, and now in their 40s
their children are grown. It’s a really fascinating relationship, with
somewhat more ability to relate to each other and a really cool ability to
live life together. Especially when this is across generations, it’s amazing
to have an extended family with three generations not just alive but still
well.
I have no idea how society could ever adjust to make something like that work
out - I think it might be easier to “fix fertility” to give more people the
option of starting a family in their 40s. But still, I wonder about it often.
~~~
lordnacho
If the economy permitted it, the dating market would reflect that and you'd
more easily find someone at a young age.
Just like it used to be.
~~~
kkarakk
Nah economy is just one part of the puzzle, society has moved on from the "you
need to have kids to live a full life" mentality too. Good luck finding an
interesting career driven woman who wants kids at 20 something.
Also, imo- for the most part kids degrade life experience significantly before
they improve it, often in the part of your lifespan that you can actually
enjoy life the most. Are you going to be taking risks and travelling to far
flung countries in your 40-50s? most probably not by choice.
Hanging out with my kids at 40 isn't gonna happen even if i had chosen to have
kids. Kids nowadays will be in school/tutoring programs/hanging out on social
media not have time for me as a father to teach them outdated cultural
mores(that they will ignore anyways just like i did).
~~~
lordnacho
But those attitudes are also a result of the state of the economy?
------
tylermenezes
I think it's still a form of sexism to assume women are the ones who need to
care for a child. That's something that very few diversity-in-STEM folks are
really thinking about.
Many years ago an ex-girlfriend, who works in STEM academia (and is otherwise
a liberal, progressive feminist), expressed concerns similar to the author
about having kids. When I brought up that it wasn't written in stone that she
would need to be the primary caregiver, she said she'd never even thought of
the alternative!
(Anne-Marie Slaughter touched on this in a 2012 Atlantic article called "Why
Women Still Can't Have It All" for anyone who's interested.)
~~~
hyperdunc
Women are more likely to want to be the primary caregiver to something that
actually came out of them. It's biological and there's nothing sexist about
it.
~~~
tylermenezes
> it's biological
"It's biology" has a long history of being used to justify everything from
sexism to racism to genocide. Please provide a source for your claim (and for
the implied claim that men do not have the same drive).
~~~
9HZZRfNlpR
The source is looking at nature and all the species?
But that doesn't mean we, the smartest of them all, can't make some changes.
Nature is also killing the weaker etc, things that we don't agree on as
humans.
------
dustinmoris
Maybe some people value spending time with their children and seeing them grow
up more than chasing a stupid meaningless promotion at a mundane STEM job
somewhere. If you have one child then you have only one chance in life to
answer all their curious questions when they are 6 years old, only one chance
in life to see them learn how to swim, etc. etc.
Life is about collecting wonderful memories with the people who you love, not
about maintaining some idiotic excel spreadsheets in an open plan office.
Maybe we should measure how many women are happy with their life rather than
measure how many of them have a certain job title in a certain field. If we
can maximise the former then who gives a shit about the latter.
~~~
falcor84
>Maybe we should measure how many women are happy with their life rather than
measure how many of them have a certain job title in a certain field. If we
can maximise the former then who gives a shit about the latter.
Because if women don't participate in the industry, the men who do will
continue building a world designed for men.
[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-w...](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-
world-built-for-men-car-crashes)
------
dcole2929
A lot of people would argue, imo correctly, that this is just a different form
of sexism. The idea that progressing in your career means sacrificing
work/life balance and more importantly family could absolutely be construed as
the end result of a sexist mind state that doesn't value motherhood and family
rearing to the degree it should. Obviously this affect men who want to be
present and active participants in their children's lives as well, but as the
author points out in many cases the inflection point at which ones career can
really take off also overlaps with prime childbearing years.
There is a lot of pressure on woman to have families and in circumstances
where their right and ability to both do that and progress in their careers
isn't respected and protected we end up with the current system. One in which
woman drop out of less flexible fields earlier, and even in them don't get
promoted as fast as their male counterparts who don't need to bow out of the
field for months at a time to have a child.
~~~
knorker
It's sexism that the more time and effort you put into your career the more
you're progressing?
I don't disagree with most you said, but if you weren't there then no amount
of artificial thinking will compensate for that.
------
bArray
I think people have been hinting towards the point that it's generally
maternity and not sexism that mostly creates the differences in career
progression. Of course there was a time in history where sexism played a major
role, but I think that in modern times this is mostly gone (although I know of
recent cases).
We can take several actions to balance the books, but the important point I
would like to ask is: Do we really want to stop/de-incentivize intelligent
women from having children and having an active role on raising them?
Of course there are lots of compromises that can be made to balance the work-
home life, but ultimately a decision does need to be made. Spending time with
your children in those crucial fundamental years before pre-school is
incredibly important and rewarding.
~~~
howling
I think people are arguing that to be fair, time spent on raising children
should be shared equally between father and mother.
~~~
toasterlovin
Time spent raising children should be shared in a way that the parents
mutually agree on. Society has no legitimate interest in which gender does the
work, as long as it's a mutually agreed to arrangement that both parties are
equally happy with (or, probably more accurately, equally least-unsatisfied
with).
~~~
badfrog
> Society has no legitimate interest in which gender does the work
That's not really true. If all women chose to raise children instead of
working, many products would have poorer design due to lack of diversity in
ideas. And if 95% of women chose not to work, the 5% who want to work will
have a harder time in many respects.
~~~
toasterlovin
> And if 95% of women chose not to work, the 5% who want to work will have a
> harder time in many respects.
Why should the preferences of the 5% override the preferences of the 95%? A
widespread norm of two incomes per household makes it much harder for women to
be homemakers and full time mothers (since single income households have to
compete with dual income households for positional goods like housing).
~~~
badfrog
> A widespread norm of two incomes per household
That is not the only alternative to a male-dominated workforce.
------
HammockWarrior
Seems like much of the problem could be solved by just having the working
world chill the f' out for women and for men. For example, a 32 hour workweek
along with generous _paid_ parental leaves. _Everyone_ should have time for a
life outside of work, not just women of childbearing age.
Also, The whole idea of having young people work like dogs in order to have a
shot at making partner, or gaining tenure, or gaining a medical degree is both
outdated and ageist.
~~~
virtuous_signal
32 hour workweeks might work but there will always be the issue of
_defection_.
If a company allows employees to take unlimited leave, then worker A who
avails him/herself of it, will be at a disadvantage to worker B who keeps
working like a dog, when it comes time for promotions.
If company A mandates 32 hour workweeks, then they will eventually lose out to
their competitor company B who mandates 40 hours (or more informally).
If country A says ALL companies must have <=32 hour workweeks, then country B,
with no such law, will become more productive. And on and on. There will
always be some less enlightened competitor to take advantage -- and do we
really think America is ready to stop being #1?
~~~
asdff
That assumes that working like a dog is more efficient than having a 3 day
weekend and free time to interact with your family and coming back in on
monday fresh and alert.
It also assumes that workers A and B both working 40 hours (or more
informally) are both working like dogs, trying to earn a promotion before the
other. This is definitely true in some fields like finance, but not all.
The last assumption is that there is no economic benefit to added free time.
Where would we be if the world was solely workers who didn't have the free
time to engage with their own thoughts? We certainly wouldn't be on this
website, or a computer for that matter.
We aren't computers with a job queue that can be maximized. We are animals
that get exhausted easily, distrust our own warning signs, and have been known
to do foolish things like jump from buildings if an artificial number dips
below some arbitrary level. I think we can all afford to slow down just a
little.
~~~
therealdrag0
> That assumes that working like a dog is more efficient
Naw. Efficiency is only one variable. Working like a dog is usually marginally
inefficient, but the first 6 hr/day are still roughly as efficient to the
3-day-weekend-er. Working more hours absolutely increases productivity even if
per-hour-productivity decreases (except in extreme cases of burn out). This is
pretty obvious when you look at how any high-achiever spends their time. It's
amazing how often people claim the opposite on HN.
------
oefrha
> We spend billions of dollars training women in STEM. By not making full use
> of their skills, if we look at only the american economy, we are wasting
> about $1.5 billion USD per year in economic benefits they would have
> produced if they stayed in STEM. So here’s a business proposal: ...
With all due respect, I don’t understand this call to action. Faculty position
is basically a zero sum game. If more women end up as faculty, fewer men will.
So, unless it costs more to train women than men, I doubt any “investment”
would be saved (and that’s not the point of gender equality anyway).
Btw, this maternal wall idea is nothing new. I talked to my mother about
gender inequality in hiring many years ago and she was quick to point this out
(didn’t call it “maternal wall” though).
~~~
pgeorgi
> With all due respect, I don’t understand this call to action. Faculty
> position is basically a zero sum game. If more women end up as faculty,
> fewer men will. So, unless it costs more to train women than men, I doubt
> any “investment” would be saved
The assumption is that aptitude for these positions is roughly the same
between genders, so if there's a significant imbalance, society doesn't get
the best people on the given set of seats.
The later calculation is along the lines of "society is pouring so much money
both into these positions and into getting-women-into-STEM programs without
reaching this supposed goal, so here's a counter-proposal to use this money
more wisely"
> Btw, this maternal wall idea is nothing new.
She's quite upfront that she borrowed the term as well, so the idea can't be
new. But it might be time to reiterate that point (as opposed to the popular
reduction of the problem to sexism only), and since she did a good job (IMHO)
to collect sources...
~~~
allovernow
>The assumption is that aptitude for these positions is roughly the same
between genders, so if there's a significant imbalance, society doesn't get
the best people on the given set of seats.
An assumption which I have to point out is absolutely not verified. In fact,
there are mountains of circumstantial, statistical, and biological evidence to
the contrary - which policy makers in the west are increasingly ignoring as
they ram gender parity down industry's and academia's collective throats,
possibly to the detriment of the institutions and society at large.
~~~
AlexCoventry
There's no biological evidence to the contrary, and the statistical,
circumstantial evidence can all be convincingly explained by the kinds of
structural issues raised in the OP.
~~~
allovernow
Are you sure about that? Consider the following non-inclusive list:
1\. Differences in hormonal expression and response affecting behavior and
interests, e.g. testosterone and competitiveness (biological)
2\. Measured differences in performance in different types of intelligence,
e.g. spatial reasoning (statistical)
3\. Consistent differences in achievement and specialization between men and
women across almost all societies and all of human history (circumstantial)
The truth may be inconvenient but the idea that men and women are on average
equally suited to all tasks doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.
~~~
deyouz
If you are going to claim something as harmful as that, I want you to present
clear evidence and peer reviewed studies to support your claims.
What you were suggesting is that men are better than women at STEM. Simplg
saying men have more testosterone doesn't cut it as evidence. (Besides,
competitiveness doesn't make you a better researcher or employee, and can even
be harmful in a team).
I also need data for the number 2 in that list. At what are men better at than
women by a significant ammount? And how does that thing relates to STEM?
And number 3 doesn't prove absolutely anything. Women were subjugated throught
history and basically no opportunity to do anything. Even with their limited
possibilities, you still have women like Hatshepsut, Ada Lovelace, Marie
Currie, Sappho, Ann Lister, Hypathia of Alexandria, etc. And now that they are
finally allowed in higher education they outperfom men in terms of degree
gained. So there is clearly not something that holds them back from studying.
If they have the ability to get a PhD, then they can also be good researchers.
Simple as that.
If you are going to continue with this subtle sexist talk (implying men are
better than women at STEM), I want clear examples. Thanks.
~~~
allovernow
Start here [1]. This is delving dangerously close to flame war territory, so I
probably won't respond further. But I'd like to point out that because of
attitudes like this
>If you are going to continue with this subtle sexist talk (implying men are
better than women at STEM)
You're probably unlikely to find too much on the subject - it's dangerous to
academic careers to even propose research which could potentially justify any
aspects of classical sexism. I'd just like to point out three things:
1\. You're aware of the massive differences in physical capabilities, on
average, between men and women, right? Which make men and women better suited,
on average, to certain tasks? Why would sexually dimorphic specialization stop
above the shoulders?
2\. This isn't about inferiority, it's about specialization over thousands of
generations. We see it in practically every other sexually reproducing
species. The fact that humans have some ability to override instinct doesn't
preclude gendered differences in average behavior.
3\. This doesn't say anything about individual ability. We are talking about
distribution statistics. What that means is that differences in _average_
performance lead to different proportional representations in various fields.
That doesn't justify discrimination or mistreatment, but it does suggest that,
say, forcing gender parity in industry is unrealistic and potentially harmful.
1\. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/male-
female/201910/m...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/male-
female/201910/men-s-advantages-in-spatial-cognition-mechanical-reasoning)
~~~
rixed
Regarding 1: Sexual dymorphism in hominids is not regarded as large compared
to other close primates. I don't know where you take this opinion that
physical abilities between males and women are "massive", but certainly not
from actual measurements. Here are some, conveniently in a single table, for
those interested:
[https://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/nats104/00lect13dimorph.h...](https://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/nats104/00lect13dimorph.html)
(Note: We are homo sapiens, pan troglodites is our closest relative still
alive the social ape chimpanzee, pongo pygmaeus is the solitary orangutan,
gorilla gorilla is the small group living usual gorilla, others are extinct
relatives)
~~~
allovernow
Ok, I know I said I probably wouldn't comment further, but the extent to which
people will bend over backwards to deny reality is, frankly, infuriating.
If you narrow your definition of sexual dimorphism to body mass, as in your
link, then sure, the difference isn't huge relative to other primates. But
even a cursory internet search produces results which absolutely,
unequivocally demonstrate that physical performance of males across all
measures of strength and endurance is in a league far above that of females,
both trained and untrained. By some metrics, like grip strength, the bottom
10th percentile of males outperform the upper 90th percentile of females.
Female records for 100m sprints are regularly beaten by teenage boys. Men are
approximately 50% stronger on average in measures of both upper and lower body
strength - and the gap widens enormously among elite athletes. Lung capacity,
injury resistance, training response - I could go on, but I would say that
this is more than enough to fit the definition of massive - particularly
considering that in practical terms even trained females compare poorly to
untrained males by most metrics.
Sorry, it may be an uncomfortable truth, but there is simply no ambiguity
regarding the degree of physical specialization among males and females, and
I've yet to come across any compelling evidence that the same specialization
doesn't apply to the brain. In a truth seeking society, this should not be a
controversial topic - the facts are absolutely undeniable, not to mention they
almost universally match anecdotal experience.
~~~
rixed
I am not denying that men have a stronger body than women (endurance is more
debatable though). Part of this difference is biological (as noted by the
table cited in the previous message, which, as you noted rightly, indeed
underestimate the difference by focusing only on body size while it is true
that men's bodies have more muscle than women's), and part of it is cultural
(men do more physical works, more sports, etc).
Physical specialization is obvious to everyone and an "uncomfortable truth" to
no one.
What makes me uncomfortable is how some men use these largely obsolete
differences inherited from a time where childbearing was constraining our
species so much more than today's world where this is a solved problem (like
feeding or keeping ourselves warm) to justify that men with such stronger
muscles must also have a better reasoning and therefore be better in STEM
positions, or leading positions, at taking decisions, at leading people
starting with heading a family, and so on. There is no evidence of this,
neither factual nor anecdotal (actually, anecdotal evidence suggest a negative
correlation between development of muscles and that of brain). This is just
patriarchy, plain and old, aka the ideology behind which men hide their
domination. A domination that is not justified by men having a better brain
but merely by men trying to control women in order to control their body that
they are so dependent of. And this is the real controversial topic in my
opinion.
I'm not comfortable with this ideology despite being a man not only because
I'm ashamed of it, but also as a father of a daughter whom I hope won't be
limited in how she will experience life because the other half of the species
try hard to maintain an obsolete domination, and I sincerely hope she will
kick the ass of all ape-like men thinking that it is "absolutely undeniable"
that more muscles means better brain.
------
azangru
Not related to the thesis of the post, but this:
> And yet, if you ask leading women researchers like Nobel Laureate in Physics
> 2018, Professor Donna Strickland, or Canada Research Chair in Advanced
> Functional Materials (Chemistry), Professor Eugenia Kumacheva, they say that
> sexism was not a barrier in their careers.
— is such a bizarre argument to make. How can one conclude anything about
sexism by asking leading women researchers whether whether it has been a
barrier in their careers. The very fact that they’ve achieved leading
positions says that it wasn’t; it says absolutely nothing of whether it was
for those who have left.
_(I am not claiming anything about sexism; I was simply mystified by this
paragraph)_
~~~
yellowbeard
Good point, this seems like a case of survivorship bias. However, I think it
does seem to show some sort of upper bound on the level and pervasiveness of
sexism? That it's at least _possible_ for women to achieve at the highest
level in these fields means sexism didn't stop everyone.
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
But these women did not experience sexism. Of course it wouldn't stop them.
------
throwaway894345
> Heck, let’s spend 99% — $1.485 billion (in the states alone) on better
> support. That should put a dent in the support bill, and I’d sure pick up
> $15 million if I saw it lying around. Wouldn’t you?
According to PEW ([https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01/09/diversity-in-
the-...](https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01/09/diversity-in-the-stem-
workforce-varies-widely-across-jobs/)) there were 17M STEM employees in 2016,
so this leaves less than $1000 per employee for childcare. According to
Fortune ([https://fortune.com/2018/10/22/childcare-costs-per-year-
us/](https://fortune.com/2018/10/22/childcare-costs-per-year-us/)) the average
cost per child is $9K/year (probably more if you adjust for the distribution
of STEM careers?). I'm guessing STEM employees have at least one child on
average (some have none, others have multiple, etc), so that only covers about
1/9th of the bill. That's a dent in the bill, but I'm not sure it's enough to
make even a proportional dent in the pipeline.
Note that this assumes the money finances a benefit that must be offered to
all employees; if you can target the women in question, the calculus clearly
changes; however, I suspect that would be difficult under current US
discrimination law (IANAL).
That said, I'd rather that money go to employees where it would certainly be
useful as opposed to the current programs which, as far as I can tell, is
squandered (to put it nicely).
~~~
AlexCoventry
> I suspect that would be difficult under current US discrimination law
What statutes do you believe would stand in the way of an organization
offering excellent daycare services to its employees, as suggested in the OP?
~~~
alexchamberlain
I believe the GP was simply saying you couldn’t only offer it to women.
~~~
throwaway894345
This is correct; that's what I intended to communicate.
------
rudolph9
I wonder how often women in STEM have children with men who earn significantly
less?
I ask because my partner Is a software engineers. She plans on continuing to
work and I plan on staying home with the kids.
Practically speaking it doesn’t totally make sense since I currently earn more
being a few years older in the same career. It’s just what we both have wanted
since we found one another and we’re willing to make the life adjustments
necessary to make it happen
I can’t help wonder how often women partner with men with lower incomes.
Obviously the physical toll of baring children tips the scale a little but
given couple where the woman makes significantly more than her partner I would
imagine the decision would be logical for her to continuing work and wonder
what percentage of women leave stem in this particular subset of the group?
------
daotoad
My only quibble with this article is that the fact that there is a wall
related to child bearing and rearing IS institutional sexism.
It's just a different form of it than the "my coworkers constantly stare at my
tits and don't take what I say seriously" variety.
We've put women largely in charge of child rearing duties. Obviously, men
aren't able to get pregnant and bear children. We are, however, perfectly
capable of changing diapers, singing lullabies, and doing laundry.
I'd bet that we would see the same kind of impediments to women rising to the
tops of their professions in many demanding fields, fields where if you take
too much time to have a life, you are considered broken and uninterested in
excellence.
~~~
jccalhoun
I agree. The article says "What if it isn't sexism?" and then goes on to
describe institutional sexism.
~~~
blub
The absence of the significant additional support required for women to both
have children _and_ get tenure as a professor is not sexism. That support was
never there in the first place and men don't get any support either, so there
is no discrimination happening.
------
YeGoblynQueenne
The author is missing the forest for the trees. She argues that a specific
kind of sexism (harrassment) is not sufficient to explain why so many women
are forced out of their careers in STEM academia. She argues that the real
reason is that those women want to start a family and they can't do both at
once. She herself is considering leaving academia to start a family (she wants
to have two or three children). Yet she never for a moment stops to wonder why
it is that a woman like her has to make a choice between family and career,
why that is a choice that so many women have to make and why it is a choice
that so few men have to make. The answer to all that is sexism, of course, the
kind of sexism that the author is so used to she doesn't even consider it
sexism anymore, just the normal order of things. Yes, of course a young,
talented researcher _has_ to leave academia to raise her kids. Because she's a
woman. And that's what happens to women.
That is sexism. It is clear sexism, it is classic sexism and it will not go
away by pretending that it is not. And I agree very much with the author that
it is the real reason behind the constant stream of promising female
researchers leaving STEM academia.
~~~
hanniabu
Probably going to get downvoted for this, but how exactly is this sexism? It
seems to be just plain old biology.
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
How is it biology that only women are expected to leave work to care for
children? I don't follow. Is there some biological reason why men are not
expected to do the same?
Do you mean something else by the "it" in "It seems to be just plain old
biology"?
~~~
tasogare
You are missing purposely the fact that women have to bear the child, which is
quite incapacitating especially in the last months. Then there is a recovery
period. All in all that already about a year.
So yes, it’s totally normal that the expectation of caring for children fall
on women because it is the prolongation of their pregnancy. Actually this is
not even disputed except by a minority of people in a minority of countries
(the Western world).
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
So you are talking about leaving work to give birth and recover from it? That
indeed is required, but I'm talking about leaving work to _raise_ the children
that one gives birth to.
I'm saying that it's only women who leave work to _raise_ their children and
that _that_ is sexist. There is no reason to abandon your career to raise your
children, there is no reason that this is never done by men (who can do it
just as well as women because it does not involve special biological
characteristics) and there is no reason that women are expected to do it.
In the western world of course we have such things as maternal leave and in
some countries even _parental_ leave which is an attempt at a solution to
exactly the problem we're discussing here: that women are expected to leave
their careers _permanently_ to raise their children even though they only need
at most a few months or so to recover after giving birth (a year is an
absolute extreme), and that men are not expected to do the same.
EDIT: So, I say "in the western world" but it turns out that's not _all_ the
western world. From wikipedia's article on parental leave:
_The United States, Suriname, Papua New Guinea, and a few island countries in
the Pacific Ocean are the only countries in the United Nations that do not
require employers to provide paid time off for new parents.[6]_
EDIT 2: "You are missing purposely the fact".
I'm not and I could assume you are wilfully misunderstanding _me_. And where
would that get us?
~~~
hanniabu
> that women are expected to leave their careers _permanently_ to raise their
> children even though they only need at most a few months or so to recover
> after giving birth (a year is an absolute extreme), and that men are not
> expected to do the same
1) This is a conversation concerning those in a relationship as to who will be
raising the child (if it's not a shared effort)
2) I know a few guys that are stay at home dads, share the responsibility with
their spouse of parents, or use caring services and nobody needs to be a stay
at home parent.
3) If they are permanently leaving their career then it sounds like there's
something completely unrelated that's affecting this other than some sexist
issue.
4) How's what you're saying any different than some women expecting the man to
be the bread winner and provide for the family? Or expecting them to be the
one to defend the family if there's an intruder in the house? Or expecting the
guy to fix things around the house or be the one to hire a contractor to do
it? Or expecting the guy to take the garbage out or change a tire or talk to
their son about sex, etc.
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
Yes, some (many? few? I don't know) women do have that kind of expectation
from a man. More to the point, there are societal norms that nurture those
expectations in women and in men themselves. There's no question to my mind
that this is exactly the same kind of sexism that is keeping women from having
successful careers in STEM academia (and elsewhere).
Like I say in another comment, sexism harms men too.
It really is not a matter of men-vs-women, here. My understanding is that
these are traditional ideas about manhood and womanhood, that were useful in
the past because they helped ensure societal stability and perhaps a sensible
use of limited resources. But, in today's world, especially in the Western
world, where the majority of men and women don't e.g. have to work the fields
or do the washing by hand, these traditional ways of seeing each other only
help to restrict our options. In the end, most women and most men have loved
ones in the other sex (wives, sisters, mothers, daughters, husbands, sons,
brothers and fathers) and it just doesn't make sense to stick to archaic ideas
that want us to be somehow adversaries. Most women want the men they love to
do well in their life and vice-versa. So why not work to maximise each other's
options, rather than restrict them? We can work together rather than against
each other to achieve our full potential, as individuals and as family units.
------
m0zg
The fundamental unaddressed issue in our society is that having children is
treated as something that's optional, a luxury, and even though the society
fundamentally depends on its constituents procreating, we continue to pretend
that having children is not a necessary part of one's life. Which is true
individually, but not true on the macro level.
Anecdotally, observing my own family and that of my (mostly well-off STEM)
social circle, I can tell you that this is when women really take a hit
career-wise. What's less obvious in the graphs is that many of them take it
deliberately, and _choose_ to focus on things other than career. This,
ironically, puts pressure on men to provide, and compete in the workplace. I
know it put pressure on me like you wouldn't believe - we "settled", got a
mortgage, monthly expenses went through the roof. I've roughly tripled my
earnings between the time my son was born and his 10th birthday. It came at a
tremendous personal cost - I basically didn't have a life for a decade, and
our marriage nearly fell apart. I like where we are today, though, thanks to
all that effort. My wife took a couple of years off work, and did not aim for
a quick career progression afterwards, preferring lower stress and more family
time. Was my career progression done at the expense of someone less motivated
at work? Quite likely, yes. Was it worth it to my family? It was, although
there were many times when I was in doubt about that.
This is something the workforce percentage graphs do not communicate at all.
------
WalterBright
Before modern times, the grandparents fulfilled much of the role of watching
the kids while the moms worked. In fact, some have posited that this is why
humans live long enough to be grandparents - it's an evolutionary advantage.
But in modern society, we tend to cast off our grandparents.
~~~
JMTQp8lwXL
Or we move 3,000 miles away to somewhere more economically prosperous (and
also, more expensive) so the grandparent's couldn't financially make it viable
to come with.
All of my parents grew up and lived in the same state as their siblings. All
of my siblings live in different states, and none of us live in the same state
as our parents.
My siblings and I don't have any kids yet, but their family life and amount of
time they spend with extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins) will look
dramatically different than my experience, and it's only been ~25 or so years.
~~~
tzs
> Or we move 3,000 miles away to somewhere more economically prosperous (and
> also, more expensive) so the grandparent's couldn't financially make it
> viable to come with
Judging from my neighborhood at least, the answer to that seems to be the
grandparents get a class A RV [1] or a large travel trailer [2] and move to
their kid's lawn for a few months to help with the grandkids.
Probably only can reasonably work, though, if the kids wait until they have a
home and decent sizes lawn to have kids of their own.
[1] [https://www.fleetwoodrv.com/models/pace-
arrow-1](https://www.fleetwoodrv.com/models/pace-arrow-1)
[2] [https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/specs-by-
model-2019-heartland...](https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/specs-by-
model-2019-heartland-mallard-travel-trailer-m5666-y2019-t5)
~~~
JMTQp8lwXL
This also only works if your grandparents are in good enough shape to live in
a trailer, and, also, you have a lawn, which many people living in multi-
family housing do not have exclusive access to.
------
naiveprogrammer
I appreciate the author's piece but motherhood is not an alternative argument
for why women leave STEM, it is THE argument. It is, in all likelihood, the
strongest factor to influence women's decisions to leave the field. The
evidence is getting overwhelming, just check the most recent publications by
Harvard Professor Claudia Goldin (most recent:
[https://test.openicpsr.org/openicpsr/project/113672/version/...](https://test.openicpsr.org/openicpsr/project/113672/version/V1/view))
Sexism is real but its importance is far from being large. It is really
tiresome to see the news regurgitating the talking point on wage gap without
properly giving context.
What is clear to me is that the wage gap as measured by the average earnings
by gender (even drilled down by field) is very hard to be fixed given the
obvious biological differences between males and females (in which motherhood
reigns supreme).
Women also need to be honest about their prospects, it is very hard to juggle
a career and motherhood. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So there
needs to be an honest confrontation on the trade offs of motherhood and having
a career and the cope that comes with it.
~~~
proc0
Yes, this is what I was thinking. Feminism is ruining women by mistakenly
telling them they want something that might make them unhappy. What do women
gain by having 50% professional nuclear physicists or 50% coal miners?
------
proc0
Why do we care that there are equal women and men again? Why does
representation actually matter again? I would find it more exciting to see a
field with no representation because I could make a greater impact! This whole
ideology of having representation everywhere is very dumb and conformist.
~~~
Nouser76
Because diverse opinions lead to better end products. Having homogenized
groups of people means you're leaving some viewpoints out, and those
viewpoints have sometimes been extremely helpful for me as a software
developer.
~~~
proc0
Sure, however this isn't false otherwise. Non-diverse opinions aren't bad by
default, and ultimately the main concern here is thinking the opposite, that
diverse opinions are always right.
~~~
jacobwilliamroy
It's an error to assume any opinion is always right. Ultimately institutional
sex discrimination is counter-productive to human life, so you will generally
see a higher quality of life, lower violence, better health outcomes, reduced
chemical toxicity, in places where both sexes have equal social mobility.
------
JDiculous
Great article, and the same dynamic applies to all genders. I was listening to
a podcast the other day where a founder said that the most successful people
he knew (eg. entrepreneurs) all had the worst family lives - multiple
marriages, bad or non-existent relationships with family, etc.
Work and family is a trade-off, their is no way around it. One can live a
balanced life and be moderately successful. But to be among the best, the most
elite, something generally has to give.
That's not to say that we can't reform the systems to not make it as "winner-
take-all", sort of like how the author suggested.
------
tus88
> women leave the field at a rate 3 to 4 times greater than men, and in
> particular, if they do not obtain a _faculty position quickly_
Wait what....you mean by STEM you just meant academia?
~~~
cpitman
Exactly my confusion with this article. I have multiple female friends who
have earned doctorates in STEM who have either left or are planning on leaving
academia to go to industry. However, they are still all going into STEM jobs!
So maybe the problem is that industry STEM is offering an overall better
benefits package than academia? We're seeing the same thing in fields like AI,
where academia can't retain top talent.
------
epicgiga
Maybe they're just not as into it?
Does anyone ever stop to consider that? Maybe women are doing what's best for
themselves, sticking to things they like, and screw your arrogant western
leftist ideas of what YOU think they should do?
Let's just pretend women like shoes and handbags more and men like engines and
guns more just for purely random reasons. Despite global perpetuity.
Everywhere ever.
Let's just pretend engineers and nurses is inflicted, not chosen, despite what
ultra high gender equality Scandinavia says.
Let's all pretend that only the North Koreans are brainwashed and that only
they care little for facts and human flourishing.
Let's all just slosh in wierd western religious fervour. Or actually, how
about no, and hop on a plane to the civilised world.
~~~
alexithym
This was an unnecessarily aggressive comment, and the tone with which it was
made detracts greatly from the intended message.
~~~
epicgiga
Fair, but calmly worded reason hasn't budged these bunch or their regime for
decades, so "repeating the experiment" etc
------
chadlavi
So... it's not sexism, it's the structurally sexist way that child-rearing is
handled?
I mean, it's a more actionable level of detail, but it's still sexism, no?
Just maybe more structural rather than at the level of individual hiring or
advancing decisions?
~~~
epicureanideal
I think a larger percentage of society would be willing to call this
"structural gender-based inequality" rather than sexism, because most people
including myself use the word "sexism" to refer to a belief that one sex is
less capable or somehow worse than the other.
Similarly, men live fewer years than women, and so receive less retirement
benefits. This is a structural gender-correlated inequality (maybe gender-
correlated is even better than gender-based) but I don't think many people
would call it "sexism against men". They would just say "oh, yeah, that's
odd... maybe we should adjust that now that you've brought it to our
attention".
~~~
badfrog
Your framing seems to suggest the entities that established the unequal
structure are blameless, which I do not think is the case. The leave policies
and overall working environments that most of us have came from the belief
that men should be dedicated to work and women should stay at home. Whether
the people who established these norms had malicious intent or not, they were
incorrect and harmed society.
~~~
chadlavi
This
------
jackcosgrove
I have always been skeptical of the need for the intense career paths in
management, law, medicine, finance, and academics. I totally understand the
need to put in hours to become an expert, but a lot of it seems gratuitous. I
wouldn't call it hazing. I think these careers are structured as championship
systems, where the winner takes all, for the sake of the winner.
Winner takes all is a very male attitude, and I think it gets back to men
being more expendable because their sexual refractory period is orders of
magnitude shorter than women's.
But does it make sense? Does the 80th hour on the ward as a resident make you
a better doctor? Does the fifth publication make you a better professor? Does
another fifteen minutes of billable time make you a better lawyer?
I don't think they do. I think these careers are needlessly intense and
stupidly so. I contemplated going down a couple of those paths and recoiled
because it seemed so unnecessary and gratuitous, and I didn't want to spin my
wheels fitting into a nonsensical system.
------
belorn
Why not look at how we are all similar rather than a unique attribute to
explain the leaky pipe?
The Swedish government order a study a few years ago in order to explain why
the teacher profession are so gender segregated. The study found that
initially the applications are almost 50/50 men and women, but then every year
men start to leave. Once graduated and starting to work, every year men are a
few times more likely to leave the profession than women. They even called it
a leaky pipe.
They had multiple explanation in order to explain it, like how more academic
focus rather than pedagogic helps retain men, and how higher salaries might
help, and they also did similar to this study and asked the men who left why
they did so. A lot of answers were that the profession did not fit their life,
they felt the environment to be alien and uncomfortable, and they didn't feel
like they fit in the work culture.
What the study also found was that the remaining male teacher that did stay
tended to enter specialties such as PE and STEM subject, and away from
subjects like langue and social studies. Many who left did so for similar
profession outside of the education system such as sport.
So here we have women and men, both being described as a leaky pipe, both
leaving at similar rates, both describing similar reasons for leaving, both
finding specialties where they are not a minority. Could there be a common
theory rather than two separate theories to explain this?
And the government study had such suggestion. There is research that is now
about 50 years old that observed that people who are in an environment as a
minority does not feel same confidence in themselves as those being part of
the majority. When faced with a failure such as a missed exam, and making a
decision to continue, being part of a majority increase the probability of the
person continuing. The government study suggested that if you apply this
theory over the time frame of a teacher career from the point of student to
being a long term employee, what you get is a leaky pipe. It also suggested
the solution that mentor ship programs helps in reducing this.
I also recall that a while back a women in IT imitative that said that of all
their work, what had actually produced results was their mentor program. Seems
like a pretty good evidence to me, and as a universal theory it seems pretty
good explanation to explain the situation for both men and women.
------
jkingsbery
I'm totally on board with making changes that address concerns for women
specifically.
That being said, as someone not in academia, it seems like a crazy path for
anyone, male or female. As the article said, you're usually 34 before you have
a lab established and the research program really gets going. Is there any way
the system could be changed/simplified so that talented researchers could
start earlier?
------
choeger
As a male that dropped out of the academic career path I can absolutely
confirm that the author has a point. I made the conscious decision not to
attempt to become a professor because it would be nearly impossible for my
wife to have a qualified career at the same time due to the required
flexibility. Add children to the mix and you are pretty much confined to a
single-career family. Which would be arguable if it wasn't for the extremely
high risk if that particular career path.
------
scarmig
One tactical approach: a high achieving woman could prioritize finding a
partner who is interested in deprioritizing his own career for the sake of
supporting her and raising children. This is a strategy high achieving men
have used for a long time.
So, pursue men involved in "child friendly" careers. Nurses instead of
doctors; teacher aides over academics; tax preparers over management
consultants. Or even men who are passionate about the idea of being a stay at
home dad.
~~~
ThrustVectoring
The dating marketplace is two-sided; one reason why high-achieving men use
this strategy is because there are a lot of women in this niche competing for
high-achieving men. There aren't nearly as many men in this niche competing
for high-achieving women, likely in part because there are relatively fewer
high-achieving women using this strategy.
A big part of strategy in marketplaces is choosing something that has a lot of
participation so that you can find enough counter-parties to make your
strategy work.
There's also a biological asymmetry in terms of age and fertility. A man who
is single until age 45 and then gets a lot of economic success can marry a
younger woman and have children.
~~~
scarmig
I'd put good money on this being a demand side issue, though I can't think of
a great way to quantify it for meaningful comparisons.
------
e12e
Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems to be typical sexism: there's work
at work which is paid, and work at home which is not. Men do little enough of
the latter, that doing the paid work isn't a problem. Women do such a large
part of the former, that they feel the need to chose between which part get
done.
Sure, the positive way to change this, is to reduce the unpaid work (child
care professionals are paid, cleaners are paid etc) - that is, to acknowledge
it as work that needs to be done, is productive, and should be part of what
society rewards/share resources to get done.
But the equal rights / equal opportunity path indicates that we also need a
(bigger) culture shift so that the unpaid work of running a home is more
equally divided.
~~~
jfengel
It's notable that in general, even when paid, "women's work" is less valuable
than men's work. The younger a student is, the more likely they are to be
taught by a woman, and the less they are likely to make -- but is teaching a
high schooler harder than teaching a first grader? Cleaning, child care, and
nursing are all both female-coded and low-paying.
Women are often pushed towards professions involving some kind of care -- and
it's expected that they'll want it because they have an emotional attachment
rather than for money. Being a homemaker is the limit case: absolute
attachment and zero pay.
I wonder what would happen if we simply made the purely numerical correction
of counting homemaking in GDP. Would we value it more? Would it make it more
attractive to men? Would we develop better infrastructure?
~~~
PeterisP
I'm not seeing much of a push for women there, but more of a push of men out
of there, or satisfying different criteria.
The behavioral stereotype that I'm seeing is that when a man considers a job
that they might like, that has some socially acceptable status (teacher is
considered a respectable profession compared to running a garbage truck, at
least for an educated middle class family) but that pays lousy, then they more
often than not discard that option as unacceptable and taboo and go looking
for a job that sucks in other aspects but pays better e.g. driving a truck or
building houses; women in the same situation more often than not stick around
with lower pay.
If a stereotypical man needs to choose between money and reasonable hours that
are compatible with seeing your family, they tend to choose money, the
sterotypical woman often chooses the opposite (part of which is the argument
in this article for the years after childbirth). A particular local example
that I see is that the municipal public transport drivers are mostly women and
long-range (both scheduled traffic and tourist trip) bus drivers around here
are mostly men. The municipal transport pays much less, so men don't apply
there; but the long-range drivers work obscene hours and are away from their
families for most nights, so women (who have the needed experience
qualifications since they're driving the same machine, just locally) don't
apply there - there's a self selection.
In management, we can observe a pattern of increasing divorce rates (for the
same age) as men reach higher levels of management; suggesting that there may
be a pattern that when choosing between a possibility of promotions and not
wrecking up your marriage, more men choose to prioritize their work and more
women choose to prioritize their home life (which IMHO is the sane choice).
The same applies for physical health - women tend to avoid many of the
physical jobs that screw up your body or risk your life. E.g. roofing is a job
that can be done well by women, but is one of the more lethal jobs in USA -
and it has about 0.5% women in there. It's not a well paying job comparing to
skilled jobs (e.g. a registered nurse) but it pays significantly more than
childcare, but we're not seeing the poorly paid women in childcare joining up
roofing just for the money.
Also, if a stereotypical middle class man needs to choose between doing a
lower class job and sufficient money, they often choose sufficient money; the
stereotypical middle class woman chooses otherwise. I have an observation from
some time when our local economy was doing badly - if a man can't get a
respectable job that can sustain their family, they'll often get a
'disrespectable' job below their skills or even occasionally commit suicide if
they fail. On the other hand, women actually do overwhelmingly continue work
in female-coded low-paying jobs like you describe even if other options exist;
e.g. we had a local situation many years ago when schoolteachers were very,
very poorly paid, but a construction boom (or bubble) had a big need for all
kinds of workers. This resulted in almost all male teachers leaving schools
and getting construction jobs, including very many that don't have a strength
or skill requirement as e.g. painters, and very few female teachers did so
(though I know some), resulting in the gender gap in school teaching becoming
even more extreme. The same happened for university students picking their
course subjects - because of the known problems with teacher pay, boys
absolutely refused to study pedagogy degrees, with the gender ratio dropping
from something like 30/70 to 1/99, but girls still enlisted. Another local
observation is that boys treat the local med school entry conditions as all or
nothing - if they can't get in to the doctor's "full medicine" study track,
they refuse to go to med school at all and do something else; but girls who
apply tend to choose both "full medicine" track and nursing as options, so if
they want to be doctors but don't make the cut they consider the lower paying
carreer path as acceptable. For career paths that pay poorly at the bottom and
well at the top, young men will face an 'up or out' pressure from their
families; if it doesn't seem that they'll reach the "good paying" level, then
they'll be pressured to drop out of the career and do something menial but
better paying; while for women its considered acceptable to stay there and
hope to get supported by a spouse.
I could go on and on, but I've probably made my point - there seems to be a
difference in preferences in job market. For men, decent pay compared to
alternatives is a 'hygiene factor', and they'll sacrifice all kinds of other
important job factors (hours, prestige, office vs outdoors, risk and health,
family balance, abusive conditions) in order to avoid getting stuck in an
otherwise decent but low-paying carreer. For a man, intentionally choosing the
low-money path is essentially taboo, their family and society will shun them
for that and push them towards various tracks where decent money can be made;
but for a woman, it's not so, so they stay in low-paying areas that are
otherwise rewarding.
------
jacobwilliamroy
My dad spent almost all of my waking childhood at work and I still feel really
sad and hurt about that. I suspect everyone has similar repressed resentment
towards their providers, and professionals should really consider that when
they're planning their families.
------
AndrewKemendo
There is no explicitly agreed upon objective function for humanity. However
there is kind of a default one baked into our DNA and it's the desire to
reproduce and see our offspring reproduce.
Modern society is conflicted however because enlightenment philosophy, which
is baked into everything, as well as some Eastern traditions teaches us that
knowledge or enlightenment is the highest virtue.
So when it comes to agreeing on how to align society from the perspective of
governance, time allocation, what to promote socially etc.. we have this
existential crisis where people try to saddle the fence between reproduction
(aka "family") and enlightenment style "progress."
------
amb23
Mothers--the vast majority of mothers, not the aristocracic ones we model our
current family structures off of--have always worked. They'd strap the baby on
their back and go to the fields to plow or gather the harvest or cook or weave
or chop firewood. Motherhood as as a full-time job is a modern invention;
historically, it was a side gig.
I'd love to see a startup tackle this problem: think a benefits platform that
allows companies to offer daycare as a benefit, or a Wonderschool-like daycare
for working parents. Even an improved work from home policy for new parents
would go a long way to plugging the talent "leak" that's prevalent right now.
~~~
tathougies
Daycare isn't an appropriate analogue to your example though. A shift in
culture that allows you to bring your children to work would be and would be
absolutely sensible for white collar and several blue collar jobs.
~~~
deyouz
No... that's madness. A child has no place in the workplace. The child would
just disrupt the day of the workers and slow them down.
~~~
icandoit
A running car would be equally disruptive I think.
I have worked at places that paid for convenient nearby parking.
I worked at a university that had a daycare just across the street. Given the
dramatic pay gap between there and elsewhere it must have been sticky enough
for some.
------
xerxex
Her argument just shows how entrenched sexism runs in our society.
Anecdotal evidence/sample size one story: My wife has a doctorate in chemistry
and 2 postdocs under her belt, but she had to leave her field purely due to
sexism she encountered during her post docs. The PI (her boss) was quite
abusive, outright sexist and a horrible racist. My wife wanted to move on to
industry jobs but her wouldn't let her leave. So he kept giving bad
references. We didn't know about this until after my wife looked into why she
got rejected.
~~~
DreamScatter
Academia is generally abusive, regardless of whether you are male or female.
~~~
xerxex
That's very true...
------
Misdicorl
Academic careers in STEM require almost exclusive focus on your career for the
first two decades of pursuit. This is simply because that is what the
competition does.
My anecdata suggests women are less willing to allow a single aspect of their
lives to entirely dominate over all others. Child bearing happens to be one of
the bigger alternative endeavors, but it's not the only one.
Supporting women (and men!) who want to pursue an academic career in STEM
while raising a family is a laudable goal. I hope it is more effective than I
expect it to be.
------
adjkant
I find it quite interesting that an article focusing on raising children
versus careers uses the word "father" or "man" exactly zero times.
------
steelframe
When I was an engineering manager at one tech company 6 years ago, I fought
like hell to get a woman who had a CS Ph.D. to join my team, and I somehow
pulled that off. Her husband also had a CS degree (B.S. or M.S., not recall
which) and worked for another tech company.
Every time there was a contractor that they needed to have someone at the
house for, or every time their kid got sick and/or couldn't go to school,
guess which of the two of them always took the time off work to handle it?
Now I had no insight into their family dynamics, and it felt it wasn't my
place to pry. But over dozens of "time off" incidents through several years,
it was very clear to me that my female employee was the "default caretaker"
for anything relating to the house or the child that came up. This was despite
the fact that she had a higher-paying position than what he had (based on what
I can now see on levels.fyi).
~~~
nhumrich
While you are very likely correct, your perception could also be biased. If
the father took time, you wouldn't know about it. So from your point of view,
it was always her, but it could have also been only half the time.
------
trynewideas
This is a good model for why women capable of or wanting to have children
leave but won't do much to explain anything to women aren't capable of having
children, or who don't want children, and still can't break past middle
management into product/exec/C-suite roles over younger, less qualified men.
~~~
deyouz
This! Not all women want children/can have children/are straight.
------
tensionhead
This 'scissor diagrams' are a gross misrepresentation of what is really going
on in academia. It conveys the the misleading message that 'the pipeline' is
only leaking for female STEM aspirants. In fact, if you start with 100 woman
and 100 men, so 200 STEM students in total, only around 1-5 people will make
it to the end of these scissor diagrams (professorship and alike). Let's
assume a very strong imbalance, say we have 4 man and 1 woman making it
(80/20). That means the drop out rate (or 'leakiness') is 96% for men and 99%
for woman! So yes, in this case it is 4 times as likely for a man to become
professor compared to a woman. However, it's still very unlikely (4%) for an
individual man to succeed and hence the majority of men also drop out of STEM
academia.
------
klyrs
I'm not a fan of this title. Throughout the piece, sexism is regarded as a key
factor. The thesis of the article, and indeed the article's title, suggests
that sexism isn't the _only_ factor. This isn't an "alternative argument,"
it's another piece to the puzzle.
------
rdlecler1
I wonder if shorter PhD programs, like they have at Oxford might give women
more time in the workforce before they start becoming concerned with starting
a family. Maybe starting earlier puts them in a more senior position at a
younger age.
~~~
scottlocklin
Shorter and fewer Ph.D.s (aka constrain the supply the way the AMA does) would
actually solve all the problems mentioned here. Might even kickstart stalled
scientific and technological development.
~~~
selimthegrim
How do you figure the latter? Redirecting resources elsewhere?
~~~
scottlocklin
One of the possible reasons for lack of progress; too many people. If you look
at something like a consensus algorithm, many work much more slowly with "too
many participants."
Or it could be an insufficiently high IQ test at present; dumb people get in
the way and cause problems.
------
thrower123
I do find it interesting that there is so much focus on academia - it's
probably natural when the the people that are talking and writing about this
are so often academics.
In business, one thing that I have seen a lot of people crash aground on a
reef on is that working in professions that require STEM credentials is a
night-and-day difference from the process that one goes through to acquire
those credentials. I've known a lot of people that loved their computer
science programs in university, and then found actually working as a
programmer such a shock that they noped right out into something else.
------
godelzilla
Pretty sure that the systemic bias against motherhood is a crucial part of
sexism, rather than an alternative explanation.
------
shkkmo
So it seems that in addition to fighting sexism, we need to combat ageism, the
viability of non-standard career paths with breaks, and the friendlines of the
workplace in general to families.
------
billfruit
Perhaps I am feeling more like this an exclusively American problem than a
universal one. For example I suggest to study the situation in India.
Many factors are at play here:
* Most Indians tend to marry young and have kids before 30.
* most families have either one or two kids only.
* Parents support their children for life, i.e, grandparents have a major role in supporting the care and rearing of kids.
* Daycare isn't expensive.
* Government mandated maternity leave with full pay and no loss of seniority.
------
iron0013
I’d love to be wrong, but my gut feeling is that a huge proportion of HN
readers are men—probably even a larger proportion than in the tech industry in
general. It makes it feel kinda weird when these articles the gist of which
are “women are wrong about women’s issues” come up. That applies equally to
the “all men’s problems are women’s fault” articles that seem to be just as
popular around here.
------
ianai
Corporate America largely sucks. Family building and wealth are being attacked
at many levels. I just wanted to add that.
------
pencilcode
I remember seeing, I think in Netflix’s Explained series, that the salary
differences between men and women were the same as the differences between
women with children and women within children, making raising children the
primary cause for the average salary disparities. This article rings true with
that.
------
vondur
I can’t speak for women, but the pay for science degrees kinda sucks. I’m
guessing it would make sense to leave to another field that pays better. My
wife was a bio major and her first real job was selling HPLC columns. She
ended up not liking sales so pivoted into teaching where the pay is decent.
------
RobKohr
This is a societal problem of promoting career instead of family, and delaying
parenthood. In your early 20s, your time is worth so little compared to your
later career, and your parents are young enough to be more involved. Having
children while being an undergraduate is better than when you have an advanced
career, substantial earnings, and little support from parents.
The best time to have kids is when you are getting your undergrad degree.
------
ixtli
> When you ask women why they left, the number one reason they cite is
> balancing work/life responsibilities — which as far as I can tell is a
> euphemism for family concerns.
At least in america women are, in this way, almost always asked to choose
between their career and having children. This is asymmetrical with men's
experience because whether or not they are comfortable with it, its considered
normal for them to spend most of their time at work even if they have a
newborn.
I'm not sure what else you'd call this status quo aside from "sexist." It's a
systemic sexism that has deep roots in how we organize the aesthetics of our
society.
~~~
manfredo
This frames the decision to dedicate more time towards childcare than work as
a something thrust onto women by societal expectation when women would rather
work. Studies indicate that only 20% of women would prefer to work full time
after having a child, with the rest preferring part time work or staying at
home with the children. Furthermore, 70% of women with children that are
currently working full time responded that they would rather be working part
time or not at all [1]. By comparison the majority of men indicate that they
would rather work full time.
Women and men both have to choose between their careers and spending more time
with children, and their choices reflect their preferences. One can make the
argument that this is indirect sexism - that women's preferences stem from
sexist social influence. But the fact remains: most women don't want to work
full time, and the lower rates of women working full time after having
children is reflective of women's preferences.
1\. [https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-
content/uploads/sites/3/2010/...](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-
content/uploads/sites/3/2010/10/WomenWorking.pdf)
~~~
TheOtherHobbes
I suspect _given an economic choice_ , many men would prefer not to work full
time either.
For some reason men don't get asked whether or not this is true. It's simply
assumed that men will dedicate their lives to work because it's the only way
to pay for a family.
~~~
manfredo
You don't need to suspect, fathers were polled as well. 72% preferred work
full time, 12% part time, and 16% not working.
------
jariel
The fundamental differentiator between early and late stage in those graphs is
that there are _far fewer positions_ as time moves on, in the 'higher'
cohorts.
It's not people just graduate along the path from A to Z - it's _viciously_
competitive.
Issues of maternity et. al. I think are just one important artefact of the
nature of competition which for whatever reason I think is still going to
favour men. Risk taking, hubris, aggression, physical endurance,
combativeness, a certain kind if confidence, social expectations, possibly
even the acceptance of those things by others - these things mean a lot at
those later stages.
------
jstewartmobile
Brand-new planes that crash, bridges that fall on the first day, the
subordination of computing to advertising and surveillance, iatrogenics,
plastics/xenoestrogens, environmental destruction, species extinction, paper-
upon-paper of non-reproducible p-hacked astroturfing, and this crazy over-
privileged broad is going to whine technocratically over how her gender isn't
proportionally represented in this systematic destruction of nature, beauty,
and civilization?
Break out the tiny violins.
------
throw7
Daycare is not the answer. Not even "High Quality Daycare" (whatever that
means?) is something to be proud of???... unless by "high quality daycare" you
mean a personal nursery next to your executive office.
High quality parenting is the goal. We could provide adequate time off for
anyone wanting to spend their time parenting THEIR child. Will they lose their
job? No. Will they not get a raise or promotion? Yes.
------
tomohawk
> I would presume that if we made academia a more feasible place for a woman
> with a family to work, we could keep almost all of those 20% of leavers who
> leave to just stay at home...
That one word 'just' speaks volumes. People grow up. People change. Perhaps
they want a different challenge than what academic achievement can provide.
Raising children is challenging, daunting, and rewarding.
------
pc2g4d
I'm just not sure how upset to be that there is still some difference in
typical roles between men and women. It may be a norm for women to be more
likely to be the primary caregiver for young children, but is that bad or
wrong? It may even be a biological drive for all I know. Is 50/50
representation at all levels of all fields really the goal we want to shoot
for?
------
rolltiide
I like how she "catches readers up" on women's biology. Since she went out of
her way to do that I think this would be further supported by why women want
to bear children. Or thoughts and perspectives from the women that do not have
children.
The article does a good job of identifying the funnel. It reiterates what we
already know about society: women are aware of their biological clock and
people desire to make children. But it does make an assumption that the women
that stay in the funnel are childless victims, or at least portrays them that
way. "Meanwhile in the Netherlands, woe!" This is hyperbole, but barely. It is
okay to assume an even distribution of wants and desires as the non-STEM
women, but what if there isn't? Let's get some perspectives.
Additionally, freezing eggs, surrogacy, and adoption are options followed by
additional help with nannies and au pair, costly options which could be
supported and subsidized by the very arguments that this article is making.
I think the case would be even stronger if we added the perspective from the
child free women, along with a perspective about cultural tweaks that women
could also consider. Distinct from only pointing out what organizations do not
do to address the maternal wall.
------
toohotatopic
How about the variance difference: men and women are equally intelligent on
average. However, the variance is different so that there are more stupid men
but also more intelligent men.
Could the drop-out rate simply reflect the higher share of men who are able to
fulfill the functions that are required at those higher positions?
------
balls187
My note to the author, enjoy your career. If and when you feel ready to start
a family, you will. And if it doesn't happen, you'll be okay too.
Maternal Age seems like a boogie man story to scare women.
Perhaps STEM women who are early career (24-28) would benefit from meeting
mothers (both who are in STEM and not in STEM careers) who had children at age
35+.
> ...Women who stay in academia expect to marry later, and delay or completely
> forego having children, and if they do have children, plan to have fewer
> than their non-STEM counterparts (Sassler et al 2016, Owens 2012). Men in
> STEM have no such difference compared to their non-STEM counterparts
I would love to see the figures regarding the partners of STEM Women vs STEM
Men. Is it due to the old sexist notion that women must "marry up" so a woman
with a successful career have partnered with someone who also has a successful
career?
Having family shifts perspective. Perhaps some of these women no longer felt a
strong desire to further their career, and family matters became more
interesting?
As a father, I love my job, but I gladly set aside my career to raise my kids.
~~~
hurricanetc
>Maternal Age seems like a boogie man story to scare women.
It's just a biological reality. It is certainly possible to have a healthy
birth after the age of 35 but the rate of health problems and birth defects
don't go up linearly with age. The rate of pregnancy loss is 35% after the age
of 35 and is above 50% after the age of 45. This is just reality. If women
want to have multiple children it is wise to start before age 33.
~~~
balls187
The statistics do not tell the whole story.
A reason I suggest young women speak with women who started families mid-late
career would hear actual experiences, giving perspective that it's not as
bleak as the statistics show.
We had two children, both healthy, after mom was 35.
We also had a pregnancy that didn't go to term.
I surmise women might take some comfort in knowing that pregnancy
complications are normal.
~~~
TheOtherHobbes
It's not about individual anecdotes, it's about probabilities and actuarial
risks.
A woman who gets pregnant at 25 is less likely to have issues than a woman who
gets pregnant at 35 and _much_ less likely to have issues than a woman who
gets pregnant at 45.
That's the reality.
The fact that _some_ women have successful pregnancies at 45 doesn't change
it. Nor does it suggest that women should simply ignore the facts and hope for
the best.
_Some_ drivers make successful journeys while drunk, without killing
themselves or anyone else. That doesn't mean drunk driving is a recommended
personal choice, or that the element of choice somehow makes the risks
disappear, or that drunk drivers who happen to beat the odds and survive many
journeys should be sharing their lifestyle choices with others.
~~~
balls187
> A woman who gets pregnant at 25 is less likely to have issues than a woman
> who gets pregnant at 35 and much less likely to have issues than a woman who
> gets pregnant at 45.
You are equating to "issues" to mean "no healthy children"
> The fact that some women have successful pregnancies at 45 doesn't change it
Is a straw man.
_Plenty_ of women have successful pregnancies at 35. And 25 year old women
debating that choice should hear from them.
Said differently:
Can you wait too long to have children? Yes. Is 35 too long? No.
------
knorker
"alternative"? Thanks for the better and more specific data, but didn't we
already know this?
Men and women also pair up with the man being older. So this isn't going away
until the government forces equal-age mating.
------
codingmess
If 1 Billion was spent in 2011 to support and encourage minorities and women
in STEM, it really suggests that some of that money should be poured into
providing childcare rather than propaganda.
------
mirimir
I've known a few women who had kids very young, and didn't get serious
professionally until their kids were in school.
But the problem is that they ended up being single parents, at least for a
while.
------
40acres
This seems like a really long argument just to end up at the main point being:
"It really is sexism". The light bulb moment here is that it's not necessarily
sexism on an individual level but on an institutional one.
I believe there is an obvious difference men and women which, on a general
level, incites women to weigh family responsibilities over career prospects.
However, industrialized nations exacerbate that difference by making it very
difficult for women with children to spend the time necessary for career
advancement.
The key here isn't necessarily throwing your hands up and saying there's
nothing you can do about it, but more robust programs for parents to help
lessen the load of parenthood.
------
shawndrost
(The "maternal wall" is sexism. If it impacted men, academia would not be
shaped liked this. This is not to detract from the article, which is awesome.)
------
peteretep
Solution: compulsory paternity leave for male academics.
~~~
satyrnein
Outcome: childfree academics (of all genders) win.
~~~
peteretep
That seems like a fair outcome to me.
------
Jemm
one of the aspects of being bullied, and sexism is a form of bullying, is the
the bullied person is humiliated, made to doubt their own capabilities and
made to fear repercussions. The result being that women leave and cite
personal reasons for, their departure.
Surveys like this are not necessarily honest as the participants are not
necessarily being honest.
------
daenz
Another sunken cost taxpayer bill? "Just spend a little more money to unlock
all the money you already spent." No thanks.
------
trowaway54321
I was discussing this not long ago and hypothesized that we have swung the
pendulum so far in encouraging women into STEM that they feel pressured into
the decision, ultimately leading many of them to go down a path in which they
have no interest.
------
rdiddly
TL;DR - It's babies.
------
hinkley
I can't speak for women, and I'm just smart enough not to try.
But what I can say is that I don't hold all of the values that I did as a
young man. I'm not excited about the same things, and today I find some of
those ideas uncomfortably naive or even off-putting.
As I've engaged in more activities, as I've socialized with more people, I've
encountered many more ideas and a lot of nuance. Nothing has simple answers
and there are other solutions to problems besides code, or tools, or pills, or
surgery.
And one of the consequences of this is that I'm not confident that if I show
up to interview at a startup that I'm going to exhibit the degree of 'passion'
they're looking for. I have plenty of passion. Too much, some will tell you. I
just know beyond all doubt that your new iOS app is not going to save the
world, and quite bluntly, that you have some unresolved issues that you need
to work through if you so desperately need to believe how transformative your
work is going to be. And I know that's not just STEM - all the 20-somethings
who I've seen doing volunteer work - and bless you for showing up - feel
exactly the same way. I'm gonna change the world. I _have_ to change the
world. Otherwise my life is empty and I am nothing.
It can be discomfiting to be around and I'm sure I telegraph it.
They say that young women socialize a little ahead of young men. Maybe they
just get a whiff of my reality before all the rhetoric gets piled on so thick
that's all they can see.
~~~
sequoia
In her article, she explains her hypothesis that women leave top-flight
STEM/academic careers because the demands (and, crucially, _when_ they must be
met: 20s & 30s) conflict with the demands of bearing children during a woman's
most-likely-to-be-successful childbearing years. She goes on to suggest that
creating more supports for mothers such as affordable childcare and possibly
collaborative academic working environments might mitigate the issue.
What leads you to think primarily about "passion" & socialization? It seems
almost as though we read different articles, I didn't see anything about that.
~~~
tomp
This is not a sufficient explanation. There’s more women in law and medicine,
which are equally, if not more demanding. There must be something else - the
nature of work (more people, less machines), the atmosphere (less bro, more
professional), the pay (STEM careers plateau quickly)...
~~~
willhslade
Law and medicine don't Logan's run you out with a constantly and pointlessly
changing tech stack every five years.
~~~
slumdev
It would happen in medicine if the public generally knew the truth.
The risk of a medical error rises by about 1% for every year a doctor is out
of school.
Either AMA's continuing education requirements are lacking, or something else
is at work.
~~~
Cpoll
I've heard that number before, where is it from? Does it control for the idea
that more experienced practitioners tend to be called on for more complex
operations?
~~~
slumdev
This article suggests that while errors increase with the age of the
practitioner, mortality does not. The difference is more likely to result from
differences in training. There is also a lot of variation between individuals,
with some older doctors far outperforming their younger counterparts.
[https://www.healthline.com/health-news/should-doctors-age-
ma...](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/should-doctors-age-matter)
------
gbrown
Judging by what happens most times gender in tech comes up on HN, I’m sure
this thread will be buckets of fun.
~~~
dang
Please don't make the thread even worse by posting unsubstantive comments
about it.
It's a divisive topic, so fractiousness is not easy to avoid, but everyone
should make sure they're up to date on the site guidelines before posting.
They include: " _Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not
less, as a topic gets more divisive._ "
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
~~~
gbrown
Fair enough
------
YeGoblynQueenne
I find this a bit pointless- Scott Aaronson has his views that are not the
views of a sizeable majority of women in STEM, who find that their career
progression is hindered by institutionalised sexism. At some point Aaronson
finds or receives a dissenting opinion from a woman in STEM. He publishes it,
with a preface suggesting that _this_ is the _real_ view of a majority of
women in STEM (the opinion "dovetails with what I’ve heard from many other
women in STEM fields, including my wife Dana").
Fair enough- but how often has Aaronson published, or publicised, an opinion
from a woman who disagrees with his view? Er. Not often. Probably because he
disagrees with them and so will tend to find that they do not marshal "data,
logic, and [their] own experience in support of an insight that strikes me as
true and important and underappreciated".
So what have we learned from the fact that Scott Aaronson has published this
opinion on his blog? Absolutely nothing. We knew his opinion, he still has the
same opinion. We know there are other people, including women in STEM, that
have the same opinion as Scott Aaronson. Here is one of them and her opinion.
We have learned nothing new.
This is just preaching to the converted.
~~~
mech1234
Your judgement of the article was nearly entirely informed by who wrote it
rather than its contents. That's a good way to continue a culture war, not a
good way to discover the truth.
I implore you to consider the well-founded facts on both sides, not to claim
this piece has absolutely nothing worth saying.
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
The piece by the young scientist has a lot to say, but the preface by Scott
Aaronson only has to say "See, I told you so!". And that's what I'm commenting
on, of course.
------
alharith
Woke twitter after reading this article: Having children is a tool of the
patriarchy! Another way that men keep women down! Why don't _they_ have the
biological maternal desires to have children?
Technocratic twitter after reading this article: We must solve the “maternal
tax” gap!
Normal people after reading this article: "yes, this is what we have been
saying for years. Promote the family."
------
herostratus101
High IQ women completely exiting the gene pool is pretty bad for the species.
------
api
Could people stop using Medium? I refuse to sign up and give them any data
since they're basically an unpaid magazine.
------
lonelappde
The author seems to ignore the fact that plenty of women do work while
pregnant and have children and go back to work after a little as 3months
hiring childcare.
~~~
daotoad
You are ignoring several facts:
1\. Pregnancy is very hard on women's bodies. It is not uncommon for health
effects like high blood pressure, joint inflammation, and gestational diabetes
to become temporarily disabling for expectant mothers. 2\. Infant childcare is
incredibly expensive. Even at professional levels of compensation, the expense
is likely to outweigh the added income from continuing to work. Costs drop
significantly once children are potty trained, but remain quite high. 3\.
Three months of paid maternal leave is very rare. Even with saved time off,
taking large amounts of unpaid leave is hard on a family. 4\. Breast feeding a
child while working full days requires a huge amount of work, above and beyond
the exhausting labor involved in having a new baby. If a nursing room is not
provided, women often resort to spending a large amount of time pumping milk
in the restroom. Which is uncomfortable, unsanitary, and disheartening.
Just because some women have the resources or the stark need to return to work
so early does not mean it is possible or desirable for everyone.
We need to have better maternal leave and accommodations. Fathers need to step
up and do more of the work. We need to have better paternal leave and
accomodations. We need to support affordable child care options. We need to
make the above 4 items available to everyone.
------
danharaj
The fact that women shoulder the primary economic burden of raising children
is structural sexism. Sexism is not merely about personal conduct but also how
we structure society. For millenia across many cultures women have had their
participation in broader society curtailed to the sphere of reproductive and
domestic labor. That is injustice. As Morenz notes, we don't have to accept
that. We can structure our work so that women are not disadvantaged for having
kids and men aren't penalized for taking a greater role in raising them.
This seems like violent agreement. I think Scott was trying to _dismiss_ the
people who criticize them by inviting Morenz to make a guest post. Perhaps his
dismissiveness is the reason why this is so acrimonious.
~~~
TheAdamAndChe
This assumes that men and women en masse want equal roles in raising children.
I'm not convinced that this is the case.
~~~
csb6
Sure, many more women may choose to take the more active role, but it’s
important to consider that these conscious choices are affected by implicit
social pressures and expectations that are placed on men and women from
childhood onwards, such as men being expected to be breadwinners and women
being expected to be caregivers. These are pretty arbitrary social constructs
that are not universal or intrinsic to nature or even human societies. So it
follows that what men and women would say they desire is not the full picture,
since they may be unaware of the implicit forces acting on them.
~~~
darawk
It's true that these social pressures exist, and they are certainly sexist.
But I think it's important to distinguish that the _pressure_ is what's
sexist, not the impact of the choice.
~~~
csb6
Then let’s make an effort to expose and reform these sexist structures! That
is the goal of people trying to reform the mindset of STEM institutions. These
structures are not fixed, and so can be changed.
------
deyouz
The article is about women in STEM in Academia, not just STEM.
And I don't understand why people absolutely need to have biological children.
I think more people should just adopt if they want to raise children.
I also think sexism in the US is the biggest factor for women leaving Academia
or not entering STEM. In other countries more than 50% of the researchers are
women and 40% of the students studying computer science are women.
~~~
icandoit
>And I don't understand why people absolutely need to have biological
children.
Consider these possibilities:
1\. A best case scenario is that what you have expressed is a personal opinion
that takes your genes out of the future in a Marty McFly fading away fashion
as this opinion hardens.
Fine. Your choice. More pie for the rest of us.
2\. A worst case scenario where this opinion accumulates in the market place
of ideas and inevitably leads to human extinction.
Impossible right? Well, know that disgust with sex is climbing in rich nations
(like Germany and Japan) and the number of births per woman is falling. Is
this a function of wealth, or technology?
South Korea has fewer than 1.1 births per woman. That can only translate into
a poorer, older, and smaller country for the future. [1]
[https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/KOR/south-
korea/fertil...](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/KOR/south-
korea/fertility-rate)
(I tell people that this was the thickly veiled premise of the movie Bird
Box.)
If that is true, then can it be called a choice? Are people actually choosing
to have fewer sexual partners than their parents generation? Are people really
choosing to feel disgust at the thought of intimate contact?
Maybe repulsion-to-sex is a bigger threat to continued human existence as
nuclear weapons.
Another fun article:
[https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-long-until-were-
all-...](https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-long-until-were-all-
amish-268e3d0de87)
~~~
yorwba
> that disgust with sex is climbing in rich nations
Source? People are having fewer children, but is that because they are too
disgusted to have sex?
~~~
icandoit
Nearly half of young women in Japan are "uninterested in sex" or "averse to
sex"
\- [https://www.rt.com/news/377342-sexless-japanese-marriages-
st...](https://www.rt.com/news/377342-sexless-japanese-marriages-study/) \-
[https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/23...](https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/23/aziz-
ansari/startling-stat-checks-out-46-percent-young-women-j/)
I remember seeing a similar headline for German women but cannot find a source
now. (I think people expect weird think from Japan so it's good practice to
compare to other countries)
Maybe social media and instant communication has replaced (or dulled) some of,
what used to be, our sexual appetites.
Half the world is sub-replacement-rate: "As of 2010, about 48% (3.3 billion
people) of the world population lives in nations with sub-replacement
fertility"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-
replacement_fertility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-
replacement_fertility)
What statistics should I look for the document disinterest in sex?
~~~
yorwba
The RT article doesn't say anything about disgust, so why bother linking to
it?
The Politifact article does involve aversion, but only aggregated with
disinterest:
_" The percentage of women who responded they were not interested in sex at
all or felt an aversion to it was 60.3 percent for ages 16-19 and 31.6 percent
for ages 20-24. Combine the age groups, and the average response was about 46
percent negative — the figure that drove attention-grabbing stories in Western
media."_
To interpret the numbers differently, a net 30% of Japanese girls aged 16-19
become interested in sex within 5 years.
I tried looking for the original report to disaggregate lack of interest and
aversion, but I only found it on Amazon and don't feel like buying it.
[https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4930807085](https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4930807085)
~~~
icandoit
The RT article said that "Nearly half the couples had not had sex in a month".
That happens because they prefer to do something else instead.
Will you grant that this means that interest in sex has fallen?
The Politifact article says "In 2013 a whopping 45 percent of women aged 16 to
24 ‘were not interested in or despised sexual contact,’ and more than a
quarter of men felt the same way."
Which matches my claim:
> Nearly half of young women in Japan are "uninterested in sex" or "averse to
> sex"
My claim was that disgust with sex is rising.
Another article makes these delightful claims:
[https://time.com/5297145/is-sex-dead/](https://time.com/5297145/is-sex-dead/)
- More than 40% of Japanese 18- to 34-year-old singles claim they are virgins.
- the fraction of people getting it on at least once a week fell from 45% in 2000 to 36% in 2016.
- more than twice as many millennials were sexually inactive in their early 20s than the prior generation was.
- In 2016, 4% fewer condoms were sold than the year before, and they fell a further 3% in 2017.
- Teen sex is flat and has been on a downward trend since 1985
- The median age for first marriage in America is now 29 for men and 27 for women, up from 27 and 25 in 1999.
- the highest drop in sexual frequency has been among married people with higher levels of education
- those with offspring in the 6 to 17 age range were doing less of what made them parents
What do you make of these data points? I think they successfully demonstrate
that interest in sex is falling.
~~~
yorwba
> My claim was that disgust with sex is rising.
> What do you make of these data points? I think they successfully demonstrate
> that interest in sex is falling.
You're equivocating between disgust and lack of interest, but these are very
different things. I wouldn't have bothered asking for a source if you had
blamed falling interest rather than rising disgust.
~~~
icandoit
I don't think I am "equivocating between disgust and lack of interest".
My motivating concern is universally dropping fertility and whether the
reasons are disgust and disinterest, they both cash out the same way. No
babies.
So, yes, they exist as two distinct categories, both inside a larger category.
I'm talking about that larger category.
Let's imagine that people want to have sex, but they can't find the time in
their busy lives. I would lump that in with disinterest. Now, whether you
would or not is a discussion about your language preferences. You are entitled
to language preferences, but I'm more interested in the slow suicide of
everyone around me.
I find this slow suicide fascinating.
Maybe everyone is too busy arguing on the internet about what words mean to
have children. That's weird and bad. That's a future we should avoid.
------
alfor
Those are very high status, high demand 'job', you need a lot so sacrifices to
achieve tenure professor, and I think they are not compatible with family
raising for most people. Why, because you are competing with the best people
that are willing to sacrifice life balance, family, leisure time, etc.
But the thing is, it's a choice, no one is forced to go into super high status
occupations. Those that choose so must be very bright and completely dedicated
to _one thing_. I think most women know or realise later on that this level of
competition is insane, and that's why they quit and find something that is not
as high status, but is more enjoyable.
A very small percentage of men are willing to ditch everything else to be at
the top, some get there, most don't, most women find out that it's not worth
it.
Oh, and I think it's crucial for children to bond with their mother and
skipping this and putting them in daycare early is not in their best interest.
I also think that motherhood is more valuable than most engineering job or
paper publishing.
------
YeGoblynQueenne
>> I’ve got a big scholarship, and a lot of people supporting me to give me
the best shot at an academic career — a career I dearly want. But, I also want
a family — maybe two or three kids
Oh.
Up to this point I was keeping notes with my criticism of this article, but
this caused me to stop and reconsider.
If I may advise the author, I understand how difficult it is to balance life
decisions that seem to be at odds, but trying to deny the very reason why
those life decisions are hard to combine will not make the choice any easier.
It is stupid and sexist that you have to think of pursuing a PhD and having
two or three kids as an either/or option, when the (probably) man you'll want
to start a family with will not have to do that, even if they are also a PhD
in STEM.
This is part and parcel of the sexism that people complain about. It's not
just inappropriate behaviour by senior male academics. There is no reason why
a woman must put her career on hold to start a family when a man in the same
career does not need to. There is no reason why women are expected to be the
ones most concerned with the business of having and raising children when men
are expected to be the most concerned with advancing their careers. How is
that not sexist? How is that not the sexism that's keeping women from
advancing their careers in STEM academia?
~~~
hackinthebochs
>How is that not sexist? How is that not the sexism that's keeping women from
advancing their careers in STEM academia?
Why should the academy structure itself so that women who choose to put their
attention into their families do not have a career impact? If academic
positions are necessarily zero-sum, it seems impossible to correct for this
without seriously unfair negative externalities?
How is it that the biases inherent in collective decisions of individuals
within society are the responsibility of the academy to correct for (that men
tend to choose to focus on career and women on family)?
~~~
abathur
Maybe it helps if I knock the particulars out of your case:
Why should <organization> structure itself <in response to reasoned feedback
from the humans who constitute it>?
Do you have some clear argument for why members of an organization aren't
entitled to participate in shaping it?
~~~
hackinthebochs
I don't see how my point served to excluded a member of the academy weighing
in. Note that my question was specific in the context of a zero-sum industry.
I'm happy to see reasoned arguments that address this point.
~~~
abathur
You didn't expressly exclude it, but weighing it answers your question.
The academy should structure itself in the way its members decide it should be
structured.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fast food slows learning, study shows - anigbrowl
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/fast-food-slows-learning-study-shows/
======
smt88
No. There is a correlation between slow learning and fast food. It doesn't
prove causation.
I think it's more likely to parents who are lazy or busy feed their kids fast
food, and those parents are also too lazy or busy to be involved with kids'
schooling.
There have been lots of studies showing that parenting is incredibly important
for educational development (more so than teaching).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Is it just me or does Firefox suck now? - kgermino
Ever since I upgraded to 3.5 Firefox always crashes and fails to load pages. Updates didn't help. WTF Mozilla. Is it just me?
======
jsz0
I haven't experienced any increased crashing but I don't use FF that often
anymore so it's hard to generalize. I mostly used FF because it was faster
than IE. Now I use WebKit because it's faster than FF. I don't care about a
kitchen sink selection of plugins and themes -- I just want a very fast
browser.
------
byoung2
I used to work in tech support, so I have to ask...did you restart your
computer? ;)
It is probably some plugin that worked perfectly under 3.0 that is not playing
well under 3.5. Try disabling all of your plugins and re-enabling them one by
one. For me it was BetterGmail that was crashing FireFox. Disabling it fixed
everything.
------
scrame
Firefox itself is OK for me, but firebug and flash have made firefox unusable
in the last 6 months. At least on linux. It seems to need a lot of memory on
windows, though.
~~~
blasdel
For me Firebug is crapping out all the time even when it's off -- I regularly
see the "This script is stalled" dialog from it.
Firefox is pretty useless to me without firebug -- extensions can't be
disabled/enabled without restarting, and it seems impossible for any
nontrivial extension to noop itself because of the event handling nonsense. I
really don't want to have to always be using multiple profiles, but it might
come to that.
------
Daishiman
FF 3.5 is extremely slow on Linux on comparison to Chrome, so I switched
there. It's faster on Windows, but that may be because I use it less so the
cache is smaller. The lookup times for the awesomebar are too slow.
~~~
RobGR
It is faster because you use it less so the cache is smaller ? Think about
that.
I have no reason to doubt it is true; I know poeple who claim to have made
Firefox run much quicker by disabling the cache or making the cache direstory
read only.
One of those people uses a 56k dialup connection that rarely connects as fast
as 56k.
How badly do you have to screw up a cache implementation to get it where it is
faster to fetch the data over a 56k dialup than look it up on the local
harddisk ?
------
nickmolnar2
I have constant problems with Firefox, but they are all related to add-ons.
When I turn all of them off, the thing runs smoothly. Of course, the add-ons
are why I use Firefox in the first place.
------
zv
It's just you
------
garnet7
Firefox takes ...
...
...
... a very long time to start up. :(
------
Travis
Not just you. I see it on my Mac and Windows at work. There are times when it
just goes unresponsive for 3-10 seconds, then unfreezes and runs fine. But
it's def. a slow bloated POS at this point (and IMO).
------
SwellJoe
Firefox 3.5 in its current incarnation is extremely stable for me on both
Linux and Windows. Betas were rough, and 3.0 remained pretty crappy, for me,
throughout its entire cycle, but mostly that was memory usage complaints.
I _did_ have a few weeks worth of horrible Firefox instability last month, but
it turned out to be due to faulty memory in my desktop machine.
------
marze
I have used Mozilla / Firefox for what seems like forever, but 3.5 just is
sluggish for some reason. It might just be my installation, but ever since
upgrading to 3.5 Firefox is really slow starting up.
Now I've switched to Chrome but I do miss the Flashblock plugin.
------
Gibbon
Firefox 3.5 crashes frequently on both my macbook and my wife's older macbook.
It's slow to load, sometimes slow to load some pages and hyperlinks
occasionally don't actually work (mostly only on facebook.)
------
makecheck
On which platform? Firefox can vary _a lot_ on other systems.
------
sy11
I have similar experience with Firefox. But, I don't attribute that to
upgrade. The crashes used to happen even before.
------
IncidentalEcon
I like speed. I like the Google Toolbar. I look forward to the day when Chrome
satisfies both.
------
fatdog789
It's not just you. Firefox has the Netscape syndrome: it gets crappier with
every release. And that's _without_ any damn addons.
~~~
startupcomment
Compared to Safari's recent versions, FF's recent versions have typically been
more sluggish. I just downloaded Camino and will be testing that out.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
LIDAR is no longer too expensive for mainstream adoption - MobileVet
https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/12/luminar-affordable-lidar/
======
MobileVet
I definitely understood Tesla’s focus on lower cost sensors for their current
fleet but with the inevitable decline in technological costs it always seemed
short sited to not prepare for LIDAR.
Sensor redundancy and complimentary performance are critical for other complex
systems, why not autonomous vehicles?
~~~
baybal2
> Sensor redundancy and complimentary performance are critical for other
> complex systems, why not autonomous vehicles?
There is one big 3 letter reason in the industry I don't want to mention here
Automotive engineering company without "tech" spin have no problem using
radars for lane keeping assist and collision avoidance
Nor cameras nor lidars are suitable for that safety critical task because of
their low reliability in bad weather — this is what any normal engineer will
tell you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Erlang: raspberry pi cluster vs. Xeon VM (2016) - zeapo
https://medium.com/@pieterjan_m/erlang-pi2-arm-cluster-vs-xeon-vm-40871d35d356
======
candiodari
TLDR: the cheapest possible dedicated machine vastly outperforms
oversubscribed VPS machines on I/O bound problems (like website hosting, or
frankly anything you might do other than perhaps machine learning).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why doesn't MS open-source Edge instead of switching to Chromium? - zelon88
======
ronsor
They may have third-party code they aren't allowed to release.
Edge isn't very portable outside of Windows, it's just the cleaned up and
refactored IE Trident engine. The same one we've technically been using for
two decades.
~~~
qwerty456127
> it's just the cleaned up and refactored IE Trident engine. The same one
> we've technically been using for two decades.
Then why does IE still exist alongside Edge?
~~~
happppy
because IE is still being used in some places.
~~~
beatgammit
In some very wealthy places that don't want to change.
~~~
happppy
I heard NASA uses IE
------
nwah1
Open source contributions could ease development cost a bit, but cost isn't
the main concern. The concern is compatibility, security, and performance
which almost no amount of resources could get Edge up to par.
However, a radically new browser engine like Mozilla's Servo has a chance at
performing so well, and reducing security vulnerabilities, that it seems like
the only viable hail mary left for surpassing Chromium.
Also, these options aren't mutually exclusive. They could've decided to open
source Edge but also switch to Chromium.
It would be interesting to have the code for Edge.
------
jononor
Just read his news, horrible. Only Apple and Mozilla left to try to keep a
counterbalance. If this trend keeps up, soon the web will require a
Blink/Chromium OS to run. Google already has way too much influence on the
web.
EDIT: Considering the relatively slow speed of Safari development, I would not
be surprised if they also would switch their base to Blink.
~~~
kitsunesoba
While it’s certainly not impossible, I would be pretty shocked if Apple
dropped WebKit in favor of Blink. The entire reason Blink was forked in the
first place was Apple and Google’s differing ideas on which direction to take
the project.
Where Google favors getting new features in at a breakneck pace and sees the
browser as an OS-like platform where the developer rules supreme, Apple favors
power efficiency and sees the browser as a content portal where developers
can’t be trusted to work in favor of users. These two models are fundamentally
incompatible.
------
tinus_hn
And then magically other people will start doing maintenance for free?
~~~
qwerty456127
Perhaps, perhaps not, nevertheless why not opensource? I would just remove the
word "instead" from the question.
------
snazz
They’d still need to invest a lot into it, to make it to the level that Blink
is at, and they would still be fighting the Chromium/Blink network effects
that brought us to the point we are at today. It would just be another
(technically) inferior browser engine.
------
bodelecta
Surely it's just far too OS dependent?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: When could or should a blockchain be used as a back end for a mobile app? - Cold_Brew
======
sanefive
Not sure what you mean, but just in case : there is this blockchain based
mobile cryptocurrency called Electroneum. They plan to release a mobile mining
simulator on mobile. Check their website.
------
borplk
Almost never ever.
What are you even trying to achieve?
------
crispytx
Blockchain should only be used when adhering to a hype driven development
paradigm.
------
sharemywin
can a mobile phone have a static IP?
don't you need that to host a blockchain?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Coliving Revolution Is Beginning with the Success of OpenDoor.io - typeformer
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tech-coliving-20160224-story.html
======
aphextron
So now being a low rent landlord is considered a tech startup?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I just finished my first iOS app - slast
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tapcollider/id593338298
======
hello_newman
Just downloaded the app and have been playing around with it. Great job dude,
quite fun!
~~~
slast
thanks so much!
------
thoughtcriminal
I like the minimal look. I'll check it out.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pttrn, Just pattern pieces.. - Kristories
http://kristories.github.io/pttrn
======
cultureulterior
No explaining text- Not starring or upmarking
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Oracle v. Google: "the value of this case keeps getting smaller and smaller" - grellas
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120218041255197
======
grellas
I began my legal career working for several years at in Big Law. In one case,
a stultifying bureaucratic management for a major steel company was building a
new plant. After hiring a firm out of the midwest to manage the construction
on a fixed-fee contract, it proceeded to make life miserable for that firm by
making never-ending revisions to the project plans throughout the course of
construction and this not only caused that firm to incur cost overruns but
also had the effect of causing substantial delays in getting the work done.
Everything was done through a multi-layered committee committee structure,
with memos continually being circulated about needs to separate the "wheat
from the shaft" and like gems. When it was all done, this mega-sized steel
company went out and hired a professional hatchet firm to assemble a "delay
damages report" (I don't remember the exact name but I am sure it was much
more high-toned than my description here). It then used this report to send a
demand letter to the midwest firm, claiming that their management of the
construction project was inept and that it had to pay millions of dollars in
damages on account of the delays in construction. When they refused, they got
sued for the claimed damages.
I can still vividly remember how, as a young lawyer, I was so stunned by the
sheer _phoniness_ of this so-called expert report - here were a bunch of
bungling, bureaucratic committee types who couldn't make a key decision to
save their lives using a sham report to try to lay the blame for their own
faults at the feet of an innocent firm that had simply done its job.
_Everything_ in that report was couched in passive voice and dressed in self-
important language - to a point where you had no idea who had done what but
had only a vague sense that this or that "had transpired" with this or that
result "having ensued." What is worse, the report was replete with dishonest
(and obviously deliberate) renderings of key facts and with conclusions that
could only be reached by the most absurd disregard of logic imaginable. I
remember thinking to myself: "this is the suit-and-tie version of a stick-up
in some back alley." And the case worked out true to form, with what must have
appeared to be surreal results from the viewpoint of the midwest firm's
executive management. Six lawyers and four paralegals were assigned to the
case. Thousands of boxes of documents were assembled with lawyers and
paralegals being tasked to go through each document mindlessly summarizing it
on a "digest sheet," with the results ultimately to be compiled into an
omnibus analysis report that could in turn be used by competing experts to
attempt to rebut the absurdities of the original report. Thousands of hours of
billable time racked up and this process was maybe 10 or 15% done when I
decided to do a very careful analysis of a relatively few key documents only,
to put the story in a context that readily demonstrated the sham nature of the
"delay damages report," to summarize everything in a 50-page write-up, and to
give that to the partner in charge. Within a short time, the executive
management of our client used that write-up to meet face-to-face with their
counterpart executives on the other side and the case quickly settled for a
very modest money payment. What a mess, I thought at the time, and all from a
phony expert report.
As the facts are emerging in Oracle's attack upon Google, it is clear that
there are many complex elements here by which Android might ultimately be
found to infringe upon Java in this or that respect but it is equally clear
that, _when it is all put in context_ , the damage claims being asserted by
Oracle are about as phony as one could imagine. This Groklaw piece does a
splendid job of picking the high points from the critique that Google's
lawyers have put together to decimate the report of Oracle's key damages
expert. All I could think of as I read this was how this sort of phony "expert
analysis" remains as prevalent as it did back in my early days of lawyering
(over 30 years ago) - different legal context, different facts, same exact
techniques, same sort of hired guns. It is enough to give anyone a very jaded
view of law and how its outworkings can harm people. Here, Google is more than
capable of being able to afford to hire the best in order to defend itself.
But what does an average person or company do when faced with such situations?
It is truly dismaying to contemplate.
Oracle will of course fight to resist Google's challenges to its damages
claims and it will be up to the judge to decide. But the judge recently warned
Oracle that this cycle will likely be its last chance to fix the problems with
its expert's report (see <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3500459> for a
detailed analysis of this) and so this will soon reach a decisive point. The
result will be, I believe, that Oracle will get its day in court but will only
be able to proceed with a much-stripped-down version of its claims - something
that might hurt Google a bit financially but will pose no real threat to the
Android platform as a whole and will amount in time to nothing more than a
blip on the radar.
~~~
meow
Once this case ends - one way or the other - will Oracle be able to sue Google
again by picking up some more patents (from its 500 odd java patents) ? Or is
this case the end of suing based on Java related patents...
~~~
pja
IIRC the judge in this case required Oracle to pick their best patents out of
their portfolio and to sue on those alone. They don't get to go back and trawl
through the rest of them hoping to get lucky a second (or third, or fourth)
time.
------
linker3000
"The value of this case keeps getting smaller and smaller"
But the lawyers fees are still getting bigger and bigger.
Plus ça change.
~~~
akashshah
Wouldn't both companies have in house lawyers fighting the case? In which case
the lawyer fees would be just their salaries?
~~~
Jyaif
Google uses Keker & Van Nest (it's in the article).
------
_delirium
Fwiw, this is the now-dropped claim, which is claim #14 from a patent with the
ultra-generic title, "Controlling access to a resource":
_A computer-readable medium bearing instructions for providing security, the
instructions including instructions for performing the steps of: detecting
when a request for an action is made by a principal; determining whether said
action is authorized based on an association between permissions and a
plurality of routines in a calling hierarchy associated with said principal;
wherein each routine of said plurality of routines is associated with a class;
and wherein said association between permissions and said plurality of
routines is based on a second association between classes and protection
domains._
In other words, each user is associated with a class, which contains routines,
and each class is associated with a protection domain.
------
krakensden
This almost looks like Oracle's lawyers didn't think they'd have to go to
court.
------
Tyrannosaurs
Is this really surprising?
Oracle were always going to massively inflate the amount to start with (forget
that it was an expert report, we all know that you can pick and choose your
experts), that's basic negotiating tactics. The bigger the number you can get
into people's heads, the more reasonable a big number (even if it's not as
big) seems.
I have no statistics but I'd be pretty surprised if this wasn't a pattern you
saw in pretty much all cases where damages are being sought.
------
cenuij
I wonder if the paid Microsoft shill[1] Florian Mueller will comment on this?
Likely not.
[1]
[https://plus.google.com/109412257237874861202/posts/ACM7DmpF...](https://plus.google.com/109412257237874861202/posts/ACM7DmpFVkF)
~~~
tzs
Do you have any support for your claim? The link you gave does not support
your claim.
Here's a clue: paid shills generally do not announce that they are being paid
by the entity they are allegedly shilling for.
All the linked article is reporting is that an analyst has taken a job to
write a report--which is known because the analyst posted about it on his
blog, naming the client and what the report is about, and stated that he would
post his findings.
Under your ridiculous apparent definition of "shill", _EVERYONE_ who does any
research for pay is a shill for whoever is paying them.
edit: wow. Downvoted for calling out an unsupported ad hominem.
~~~
afsina
My theory is, he is a shill, but not for Microsoft. That is just how he earns
money.
~~~
thomholwerda
He is being paid by Microsoft. He wrote a Microsoft-sponsored report on FRAND
patents... Quite coincidentally the very focus of the current strategy by
Apple-Microsoft.
[http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/10/study-on-
worldwide-u...](http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/10/study-on-worldwide-
use-of-frand.html)
------
ypcx
You can't out-google Google, even if you see the future. Or so they learned.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What is -2^2? - laujen
Is -2^2 equal to 4 or -4? which has precedence, the negate or the power? TI algebraic calculators do it one way while HP's algebraic calculators do it another.
======
_delirium
I believe the most common answer is -4, due to exponentiation having a higher
precedence than negation. I'm not sure it's completely standard, though. In
written mathematics it would be more common to write (-2)^2 if you really
meant the -2 to be exponentiated. But, it might be different if you were using
a style of traditional mathematics typesetting where unary negation and
subtraction are more clearly distinguished. I could imagine something like 5 -
-2^2 meaning to subtract (-2)^2 from 5, if it were written in a typesetting
style where the unary minus was smaller and clearly more "bound" to the 2 than
the subtraction was.
Miscellaneous support: a random elementary algebra textbook:
[http://infinity.cos.edu/algebra/Rueger%20Text/Chapter02/2.6_...](http://infinity.cos.edu/algebra/Rueger%20Text/Chapter02/2.6_Exponents%20and%20Order%20of%20Operations.pdf)
and a dude from mathforum.org:
<http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/53240.html>
~~~
laujen
That Math Forum post is excellent. Thanks!
------
hector_ka
Considering operator precedence
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations> Quote: "Unfortunately,
there exist differing conventions concerning the unary operator − (usually
read "minus"). In written or printed mathematics, the expression −32 is
interpreted to mean −(32) = −9, but in some applications and programming
languages, notably the application Microsoft Office Excel and the programming
language bc, unary operators have a higher priority than binary operators,
that is, the unary minus (negation) has higher precedence than exponentiation,
so in those languages −32 will be interpreted as (−3)2 = 9. [1]. In any case
where there is a possibility that the notation might be misinterpreted, it is
advisable to use parentheses to clarify which interpretation is intended."
~~~
zbanks
Thanks for addressing the issue. A lot of people are taking this as an opinion
question: it's not.
------
hucker
I've always been taught that (-2)^2 = 4, while -2^2 = -4. This has stayed true
all through college calculus, but I can't prove it.
------
uncle_ruckus
Just remember PEMDAS: Parentheses first, Exponents next, Multiply/Divide,
Add/Subtract. This is the order for dealing with simple math manipulations;
don't trust a calculator that tells you otherwise.
------
phaedrus
Somewhat related, in the Io language, I was surprised to find that the
expression "-23 abs" evaluates to "-23" _not_ +23. The language desugars the
expression to "0-(23 abs)". I think what threw me was the fact that Io uses a
space rather than a dot for member selectors. No one would be surprised that
C++ evaluates "-numObj.abs()" that way.
------
Bo102010
I read it as shorthand for (-1) * 2^2, so -4.
------
laujen
For the record, the TI-83 is -4 and the HP48 is 4. TI-83 (or now TI-84) is the
dominant calculator in US math classes.
~~~
yaks_hairbrush
HP48 is RPN, which sidesteps precedence issues. So, here you explicitly need
to decide if you want 2 NEG 2 ^ (i.e. (-2)^2) or 2 2 ^ NEG (i.e. -(2^2)).
The traditional order of operations is what the TI series does. In essence, it
assumes you want the second form.
By the way, on my HP50G in algebraic mode, typing '-2^2' does give -4.
~~~
laujen
I apologize. You are correct, the HP48gx is RPN only. Don't know why I thought
otherwise. I had it in my head for some reason that 48 did both (it kind of
does but not really) and that it gave the answer as 4.
------
Animus7
I remember Stoustrup saying that this question was the reason that C++ doesn't
have a double-asterisk operator. Everyone seems to give a different "obvious"
answer.
------
serichsen
I think that precedence rules are evil.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Blogging and Blackmail - ot86
http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/3401/blogging-and-blackmail/
======
littletables
Lawrence Dignan, Editorial Director of CBS Interactive and Editor in Chief of
ZDNet and Smart Planet has weighed in. It might be worth a read for anyone
interested in discussion on the matter.
A word about Dennis Howlett - <http://www.zdnet.com/a-word-about-dennis-
howlett-7000005135/>
Disclosure:
I am a freelance reporter and blogger for ZDNet, as well as CBS Interactive
property c|net.
I don't know Howlett and have not observed his behavior or practices and I
have no opinion on this. I simply saw that there was a significant response.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do people sell algorithms online? - max93
I see many great people develop great algorithms in hacker news everyday. But what is the best way to find buyers if you want to sell ?
======
dalke
Algorithms are trivial to come up with and nearly impossible to make money
from.
Look at all the CS papers with algorithm upon algorithm. Arxiv has about 7 new
submissions per day under "Data structures and Algorithms",
[https://arxiv.org/list/cs.DS/recent](https://arxiv.org/list/cs.DS/recent) ,
and that's only a small part of the published literature.
You need an algorithm which can solve a problem people have, and which is
worth money to them to solve, and you have to convince them that what you have
is worthwhile.
For example, I sell a product which mixes some existing algorithms with some
of my own improvements. People don't buy it for the algorithm. They buy it
because it is very fast at what it does, and people are willing to pay for the
performance. It's also a very widely used concept in my field, which means I
don't have to convince them to use some alternative approach, which would need
its own set of justifications.
~~~
max93
It's cool. How do you find your buyers, via some platforms or friends?
~~~
dalke
Word-of-mouth, conferences, postings to relevant mailing lists, and a no-cost
download of an older version, to test it out. Very old school.
------
ankurdhama
People buy product, create a product around your algorithm and you are good to
go.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Leaked: Harvard’s Grading Rubric - shuki
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/opinion/sunday/leaked-harvards-grading-rubric.html?_r=0
======
kiddz
This is a good example of the promise of distributed learning where
"admissions" is based on progressively better performance. In a world where
anyone can take an intro Harvard class online and their performance(s) earn
them more access (e.g. actually physical enrollment/credits --things that use
real resources), grade inflation would make such a system fail.
But until then, I think there's a general feeling that the admissions process
accepts those who basically only do "A" work, and subsequent grading within
the school follows as such. Brown does P/F and Yale Law School omits grading
too.
------
cbhl
One of the things that bothers me about online newspapers as a medium is that
you don't get the same cues that this is in the "Opinion" section of the paper
that you'd get from a dead-tree newspaper.
It would have been more apparent that this was satirical for someone scanning
if it had been surrounded by other Opinion articles on a page, and/or had a
large political cartoon nearby. But these don't translate well to a deep link
on a newspaper's website.
After reading this and the linked Boston Globe article, I had to come back to
this page and look for "Opinion" (and found it in the URL before I found it on
the web page itself).
~~~
frostmatthew
I find it hard to believe that a piece mentioning what grades to award "work
submitted by farm animals" is difficult to recognize as satire without a
political cartoon nearby...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What are your thoughts on integrating your app into Facebook? - rami
http://apps.facebook.com/science/
======
rami
Yesterday Facebook accepted my application ScienceHack into the applications
directory. So far, its been a huge success, I am getting great exposure to my
target audience and every time someone adds my application, many more come
through the friends feed feature. If you have a start up dont hesitate to
integrate it into Facebook.
What are your thoughts?
------
Tichy
I suppose if it isn't too much work, why not. While you are at it, also write
some widgets for OS X, Google and Yahoo?
However, this is the third link today that leads me to the facebook login
page. That sucks. Why do you have to login to see the available applications?
I don't have a facebook account, so, whatever...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Sound therapy is no better than placebo for tinnitus - bookofjoe
https://www.cochrane.org/CD013094/ENT_sound-therapy-using-amplification-devices-or-sound-generators-tinnitus
======
ksaj
As someone who wears hearing aids and suffers from tinnitus, I can say this:
the sound generators _do_ help in one way that is not placebo oriented, but
also is not a cure like this study seems to be trying to disprove: masking.
Masking is quite different than what they were studying.
The sound generators were only ever presented to me as a way to temporarily
"soften the blow" of the annoying irritant that tinnitus presents. And it
works very well for that. If you don't have tinnitus, you won't understand how
incredibly aggravating and discouraging it is to hear that racket all the time
- especially when you're in a situation where the ambient sounds would be
typically quite pleasant for those without tinnitus. Mask it out during an
episode, and you don't end up nearly as anxious and distracted.
Tinnitus isn't just the high pitched sound people talk about. It can also be
clicks and static sounds - like out-of-band radio, or damn near exact replicas
of cicada (June bugs). These effects are really super common. But after my ear
surgery what shocked me most was that I discovered sometimes tinnitus is this
almost subsonic throbbing rumble that can actually be felt - like being near
an idling transport truck.
Masking helps get through that a _LOT_.
Obviously I still have tinnitus, so it's not a cure. And I don't think anyone
has ever told me it could be a cure. My surgeon suggested it only as relief
during the episodes. And for that, it definitely works.
This study would be better if it studied that. Anyone claiming it is a cure is
misrepresenting the purpose and practicality of using augmented sounds to get
by.
The author _may_ have sorta-kinda hinted at that when pointing out they
weren't looking at the quality of life aspects. If this study was aimed at
disproving that sound therapy is a cure, then of course... it was doomed from
the start.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Chinese Attack on USIS Exploiting SAP Vulnerability - aashishlowanshi
http://security.cioreview.com/whitepaper/chinese-attack-on-usis-exploiting-sap-vulnerability-wid-152.html?utm_campaign=aa11
======
aashishlowanshi
Anyone finds it helpful?
~~~
brudgers
Hacker News generally prefers direct links to sources over sites that simply
link to original sources.
Good luck.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Alex St. John: I Apologize - Finster
http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2016/04/21/i-apologize/
======
gortok
Since the site is currently experiencing a Database error, here's the link to
the google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2Zf0Pqw...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2Zf0PqwgCC4J:www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2016/04/21/i-apologize/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
------
minsight
Wow. A sincere, well executed apology can do wonders in patching up one's
reputation. This just makes him seem like an even bigger buffoon.
There was a lesson to be learned here and it seems like he's uninterested in
learning it. Or even pretending to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Immutable Values and Invariant Names - mortoray
http://mortoray.com/2013/02/04/immutable-values-and-invariant-names/
======
ScottBurson
Even if collection types, such as vectors, are immutable in your language
(which BTW I think is a great idea), you can still allow element-wise
assignment:
a = [1, 2, 3]
a[1] = 4
This works if it has a different semantics from what you might expect: instead
of updating a potentially shared object, it is considered equivalent to
a = [a[0], 4, a[2]]
That is, it doesn't modify the object 'a' refers to; rather, it updates the
binding of 'a' itself. So, for example:
a = [1, 2, 3]
b = a
a[1] = 4
b[1] --> 2
I've used a language with this property for some years, and it's quite
pleasant; you don't have to worry about copying a collection before returning
from an interface, for example, to protect it from being modified by the
client.
~~~
mortoray
That syntax certainly fixes a major problem when dealing with immutables. The
mutable-like syntax I find is the cleanest way to construct complex data
types.
I keep thinking about using only immutables in my language, but I don't think
it will be possible. I'm intending to a be a system language, and there are
simply too many situations where you need to modify data in-place. I'm
struggling to see if I can still find a place for immutables in situations
where they work fine.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Queue-flow: Chainable logic built on named (or not) queues in Javascript - da02
http://dfellis.github.com/queue-flow/
======
ISV_Damocles
Hi, I'm the author (finally figured out why I suddenly got so many new people
starring the library).
I hope you guys find queue-flow useful. It's nice for organizing source code
in Node.js, especially when you need to mix-and-match sync and async methods
(the "flow" part of the name), but particularly shines when you have a large
queue of data to process (the "queue" part of the name).
There are some other libraries I've written that are useful with it:
[sloppy-queue-flow](<https://github.com/dfellis/sloppy-queue-flow>) drops the
"queue" part of queue-flow and leaves just the source code organization. Good
for request-response type operations where any particular request has nothing
to do with any other request.
[parallel-queue-flow](<https://github.com/dfellis/parallel-queue-flow>) keeps
the queue in-tact, but allows each "step" to process more than one piece at a
time -- but sends the results down the line in the order it received the
input. (Blocking only enough to keep the order, not waiting for the entire
queue to finish before continuing.)
[lambda-js](<https://github.com/dfellis/lambda-js>) is a simple library that
creates true one-liner lambdas in javascript (not closures) with no perf
penalty versus "regular" functions, and if it detects that you defined that
same lambda elsewhere it re-uses that one rather than parse and re-define
again.
[binders](<https://github.com/dfellis/binders>) was sort of a joke library
that has some use. It creates a "binder full of bound functions." Give it an
object and it will return another object where all of the methods are bound to
the original object, perfect for passing around in functional-style libraries
like queue-flow.
Finally, I'm working on what I call a "baby map-reduce", [queue-flow-
server](<https://github.com/dfellis/queue-flow-server>). It's not ready, yet.
I only got to start working on it a few days ago, though I'd been turning the
concept around in my mind for a while. Feel free to make comments on the
current design goals, and let me know if it seems like something you'd find
useful.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video] - sur
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nsa-speaks-out-on-snowden-spying/
======
olefoo
The fact that Clapper is still in office months after it was revealed that he
had in point of fact lied to congress during sworn testimony should tell you
everything you need to know.
The surveillance machinery formerly known as Total Information Awareness is
being built and fielded with or without the consent of the governed and most
definitely without the consent of those of us who don't happen to be "US
Persons".
The only solution is for you to demand your correspondents use strong
encryption and for all of us to help the less technically adept to reach the
point where that is not an obstacle.
~~~
grugq
It is incredibly simple politics. He is in place to continue to soak up the
bad publicity from the Snowden event. Once the bad publicity stops, he will
step down. There is no point, politically, of taking him out right now. His
replacement will end up tarnished with the bad PR as he starts his gig.
[http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm](http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm)
The NSA is unable to do a thorough damage assessment -- they don't know how
which documents Snowden took.
Greenwald is drip feeding the world press "stories" which can go on for an
indeterminate amount of time (see "no damage assessment").
Only viable option is to keep Clapper in place until Greenwald et al. have
exhausted their supply of new scandals.
If, for example, Snowden had gone all Wikileaks and dumped the whole lot of
files at once, Clapper would have been gone months ago.
~~~
olefoo
You are most likely correct.
It seems as though the Intelligence Community is being forced back to
'siloing' since the pooled resource approach seems to be so vulnerable to
singleton conscience-ridden whistleblowers. In a way this plays right into
Assange's analysis of the cognitive structure of rule by conspiracy in that an
organization can know things, but cannot both discuss them internally and keep
them secret at the same time. In effect an attack that requires internal
barriers to communication to prevent; is also an attack on the organizations
overall cognitive ability.
~~~
mpyne
> In effect an attack that requires internal barriers to communication to
> prevent; is also an attack on the organizations overall cognitive ability.
It is indeed. That was one of the issues noted by the 9/11 Commission formed
by Congress, was that the institutional silos prevented the right people from
acting on the available intelligence leading up to the 9/11 attack.
Of course NSA had hardly decompartmentalized; Snowden was able to sysadmin
himself through many of the compartments, which is a hard enough problem to
solve, but that may mean NSA might look and decide they don't need to retract
from other IC agencies.
------
tmuir
This was public relations, plain and simple. Paint Snowden like a weirdo, ask
softball question after softball question, give vague hints about the scary
threats that deem this all necessary, and blindly trust the answers of the guy
in charge of the entire operation, as if he had no incentive whatsoever to
mislead anyone. Then wrap it all up with "Just how did we get this access that
no other news agency could?" Gee, maybe it has something to do your extensive
track record of reporting any story without even a shred of investigation into
it's veracity.
~~~
rlu
What annoyed me is that, as with anything, the devil is in the details. And
the questions failed to clarify on details.
A few examples (all quotes paraphrased):
1\. "we only listen to conversations of non americans"
\-----Ok, so what happens when an American has a conversation with a non
American? Do you tap it at all? Do you get both sides of conversation? Only
one side?
2\. "you can only look at a protected phone number if you have access"
\----Awesome, but this is sort of a non-answer. How many people have access?
How long does it take to get access? How easy is it to request access? Do you
need access per phone number or if you get access for one protected number do
you now get access to all of them?
3\. "PRISM only lets us target US persons with probable cause under court
order"
\-----What is a US person? US Citizen? Person living in the US? This also
contradicts so much of what I thought I knew about PRISM that I'm baffled that
no clarification was asked for.
~~~
mpyne
> What is a US person? US Citizen? Person living in the US? This also
> contradicts so much of what I thought I knew about PRISM that I'm baffled
> that no clarification was asked for.
Uh, these details were actually all hashed out in the media within the couple
of weeks after PRISM was initially revealed.
USPER == Anyone in the physical borders of the United States, whether a
citizen or an alien.
Likewise it is true even when PRISM was described that a USPER couldn't be
accessed without an Article III warrant. The big question was whether this was
a technical safeguard or a "analyst follows policy" safeguard. But even for
non-USPER PRISM still required at least an NSL (which the receiving company
could escalate to the FISC if they felt the NSL was illegal).
If this all surprises you about PRISM then I'd humbly suggest that you've been
getting fed so much misinformation that you should possibly consider using
alternate sources instead of sitting back in an echo chamber. ;)
------
jcc80
Like how they start off right away saying Snowden cheated on the test to get
hired and then discuss his "weird" habits. Seems the same as most high profile
interviews - the interviewer is so thrilled to get an exclusive they just
gobble up whatever they're told.
------
rurban
Again he is spinning/lying about the word "collecting". Their interpretation
of collection is still collecting + looking at it, while the rest of world
still interprets collection as collection.
~~~
salient
Yes, they keep saying that as if all the collected data wasn't already "looked
at" through keyword alerts or similar systems, or that they wouldn't give
themselves permission to look manually at someone's data anyway.
Also last I checked, the 4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches (I
would think searching/fishing for elements in the data through autonomous
systems, is still called "searching", no?) and _seizures_ (i.e. collections).
~~~
mpyne
4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches of _persons_ , _houses_ ,
_papers_ , and _effects_.
It has never prohibited the government from doing other searches, otherwise
government agencies would not be able to subpoena business records _about you_
from third parties.
Sometimes Congress passes separate laws adding a specific requirement to
obtain a warrant before doing a certain type of search, and the Supreme Court
has also acted to expand 4th Amendment protections to include 'reasonable
expectation of privacy' (concerning a phone booth conversation in an otherwise
public place) but even in that case the Supreme Court specifically abrogated
the concept of a _general_ "right to privacy".
~~~
george88b
Wouldn't an average, reasonable person in today's age consider an email or
digital file to be a modern version of a "paper" or a cell phone to be a
modern "effect"?
~~~
mpyne
Well that already is that the case, but that would only prevent the government
from searching the cell phone or computer itself (which is why you don't hear
of NSA hacking into Americans' computers), not from intercepting
communications made by the cell phone or computer once it leaves the home.
~~~
anaphor
Can the NSA open everyone's mail, make a copy of it, and put the original
letters back without that being "collection" of the letters?
~~~
mpyne
Well it would be the USPS, not the NSA, and the USPS does indeed scan today
every single mail item they process for "metadata" about the contents of the
envelope [1] (note how the linked article reinforces my point about Fourth
Amendment protection).
Either way if the failure of the Fourth Amendment to be protective enough is
that bad then the solution is either to pass a law adding the needed
protection (what Congress did for landline wiretaps) or to wait for an
activist judge to quote James Madison in a ruling that expands the permit of
the Fourth Amendment (e.g. the ruling today).
But simply wishing that the Fourth Amendment says something other than what it
does, doesn't turn the Fourth Amendment into what you wish.
[1] [http://gizmodo.com/5994922/how-the-post-office-sniffs-out-
an...](http://gizmodo.com/5994922/how-the-post-office-sniffs-out-anthrax-
before-it-hits-your-mailbox)
------
foxhop
It irritates me when they use the term "taken" or "lost" when referring to the
data that was leaked or copied. The verb taken works best for physical
document. Lost would mean that the physical document was taken or stolen and
is not replaceable.
~~~
viraptor
That battle was already lost once regarding piracy. According to the media
it's not copyright infringement, copying, or duplication. It's stealing the
movie. This allows pseudo-advertisements like "you wouldn't steal a car" to
exist. (I would definitely copy a car is I could!)
------
dephex
"He was taking a technical examination for potential employment at NSA; he
used his system administrator privileges to go into the account of the NSA
employee who was administering that test, and he took both questions and the
answers, and used them to pass the test."
WHAT? He was a potential employee at the NSA but was already a system
administrator, guys. That's the only reason this all happened - because he's a
liar, cheater and thief! Down with Snowden!
~~~
doug11235
Government contractors are not considered government employees.
------
freyr
Right on the heels of Saturday Night Live skewering 60 Minutes for softball
interviews:
[http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/rob-ford-
cold-o...](http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/rob-ford-cold-
open/n43342/)
------
wikiburner
Does anyone have any good links to information on the "BIOS" attack the NSA
claims to have thwarted?
To hear the head of the NSA tell it, China was seriously getting ready to
launch WWIII on the Internet, which I find pretty surprising.
------
siculars
What a puff piece if ever there was one. I'm actually concerned that 60
Minutes would actually air such obviously pro NSA propaganda especially after
their Bengazi disaster. How anyone can take this seriously is beyond me. And
the fact that Alexander could blatantly lie to the world on national
television is outrageous.
------
harshreality
Here we go again with the false dichotomy of metadata vs data.
There Is No Difference. Collecting metadata enables you to infer some data,
psychology, and behavior directly, or you can identify the individual and
cross-reference with other databases that contain data.
------
salient
I'll leave this here:
[http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/15/5214452/60-minutes-
softba...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/15/5214452/60-minutes-softball-NSA-
expose)
------
teawithcarl
Last week, a PR slot for Amazon on 60 minutes.
This week, NSA public relations decide to put its best spin on ... thanks,
CBS.
------
Bahamut
FWIW, some of the revelations in the NSA video isn't particularly new - you
can get a sense of how the NSA operates by visiting Palantir's website (they
create custom software for agencies like the NSA). I highly suspect that the
video reveals that software in action for forming links with phone metadata.
Contrary to a lot of what has been said on HN, a lot of what the NSA does is
good for the US. It would appear Gen. Alexander sidestepped talking about some
of the questionable behavior that has occurred, but on the whole, the NSA
operates with the right mindset. Anything on foreign grounds are free reign
for any country to operate in, and it has always been that way in the broader
intelligence community. The US has just been especially good at it.
Computing power & ability are getting ever more daunting. The knowledge about
the fragility of computers are getting ever more accessible. What would a lot
of you do about thwarting cyberthreats of varying natures to the US, were you
in the position to have to protect such a powerful entity? Would you leave the
US vulnerable if it meant erring strictly on privacy, which still has the
potential to be prone to mistakes? Metadata in itself is a powerful
intelligence tool. Should the intelligence agencies never have access to it?
Under what conditions should it be available? What would you do in the event
that time is of the essence, and bureaucracy ends up preventing you from
accessing the vital information you needed to stop a terrorist plot? It is
hard for people to know about what successes intelligence agencies may have -
it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, since the information
often needs to remain classified for foreign relations, but if you fail to
save lives, you are then blamed for failing your country, as the intelligence
agencies were for 9/11 due to inadequate data sharing & exactly the type of
bureaucracy that was later decreased.
I have some insight as to how the NSA operates, based on prospective employers
reaching out to me for interviews, including workgroups in companies who
contract directly with the NSA and the NSA itself (I was approached for a role
as a mathematician as soon as their hiring freeze was over, my specialty was
number theory, including analytic & algebraic number theory, precisely the
NSA's domain) - those intelligent and who have interviewed in this field
should be able to extrapolate generally how the NSA likely operates without
having worked there.
I respect the mission, and personally don't have a huge problem with how the
NSA operates. I wouldn't work for them ever anymore though, I picked a
different career.
One thing I think people on HN should do though is think critically about this
though, and not automatically go into scared-mode/hive-mode due to the amount
of data involved. Think it through logically, as you would with any other
problem. I think most of you would understand that this is a far more complex
issue than many here have made it out to be. One may still potentially arrive
at the same conclusion that the NSA overstepped their bounds on a high moral
level, but you will gain more of an appreciation for the high moral level that
the NSA attempts to operate in generally, which should be a surprise if you
haven't thought about this prior to this incident given the world history of
espionage and intelligence.
~~~
jdonaldson
It's pretty faint praise if you have to argue that a lot of what <insert name>
does is good. It's like listening to someone in an abusive relationship.
They have willfully violated privacy expectations of individuals and
corporations, and they seem to have enjoyed doing it (the slide deck showing
how they sniff google data comes to mind).
They do have a big job to do, but "protecting the US as an entity" is not a
risk to the extent you imply. Even additional terrorist attacks on the scale
of 9/11 are not going to threaten the future of our country. Furthermore, even
in the presence of such pervasive surveillance by the NSA, we are still
vulnerable to attacks of terrorism, such as the Boston Marathon bombings. The
American citizen is not really any safer than before, and in fact is more
vulnerable to abuse by those with access to sensitive personal data.
What's happening now _is_ in fact a good deal of logical thought. The question
is whether the NSA's operations need to be severely curtailed and/or
monitored.
Finally, if you're looking for the scared-mode people, I would suggest looking
to the individuals who have put their personal freedoms at stake to try and
bring evidence of wrong-doing to light.
~~~
Bahamut
On the contrary, it is the risk I imply/have stated. I don't work in
intelligence, but I am an infantry Marine reservist - some of the tactics
briefed to us on how foreign governments and terrorists try to compromise
opsec might surprise many, including using Facebook to try to determine troop
movements. Our enemies are also sophisticated.
It's just not as simple as you have stated so far. I'm not making an absolute
claim that the NSA did not violate privacy or such - I was primarily pointing
out some of the complexities involved here that privacy advocates tend to
forget, especially when considering the history of foreign intelligence
gathering, where privacy is not guaranteed by any nation because such a
guarantee cannot be backed.
------
michaelrhansen
we don't collect phone things
------
ChrisNorstrom
Quick Question about encrypted email: For extremely sensitive data, rather
than mess with PGP for Thunderbird and private and public keys. Can't you just
email a TrueCrypt container with a hidden TrueCrypt container inside of it
back and forth between your clients?
~~~
jgg
You'd have to find a way to negotiate the volume password electronically if
you didn't do it in person, which in turn would basically just be asymmetric
crypto, which would probably lead you to PGP.
------
tn13
LOL. NSA is spying on all H1B employees, foreign students and rest of the
world. If they have that capability I am not sure how exactly they would
filter out US persons.
Secondly, these people have the history of lying to Congress itself. I am not
sure if they give any shit about media and general public.
As a non-american one thing is absolutely clear to me. Given two equal
services always choose a non-american one.
------
testaccount4
test comment please ignore
~~~
samstave
Congrats, your sockouppet account is now active.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Defense Dept. orders Stars and Stripes newspaper to shut down - bookofjoe
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/media/stars-and-stripes-future/index.html
======
komali2
It won't be, though, correct? Trump tweeted something about continuing
funding, likely as a response to leaks of him disparaging dead veterans.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Will the Singularity turn us into gods or end the human race? - btipling
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/22/3535518/singularity-rapture-of-the-nerds-gods-end-human-race
======
chhhris
Welcome to the future, boys and girls.
~~~
bproper
I don't know. Seems to me like artificial intelligence hasn't lived up to the
hype. We've had great progress in increasing processor speeds, but not as much
luck at the Turing test.
~~~
btipling
Yes, there's actually a term for the failure of the hype:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter>
I think AI is currently in the phase of failing to live up to short term
expectation while its long term implications are underestimated.
------
nacker
_BOTH_ would seem to be an optimal outcome for us and the other lifeforms on
this planet.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
1 in 6 Russian entrepreneurs are in jail, 1 in 3 prisoners are businessmen - srgseg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13546177
======
asciilifeform
_Then he bought two old Soviet dairy farms._
This sentence is the key to understanding why many Russians feel little or no
sympathy for "victims" like him.
Soviet dairy farms once belonged to the Soviet people - in much the same way
that, say, the Washington Monument, the US National Parks, or the US Army
_belong_ to the people of the United States. How would you feel if the most
hardened violent criminals came to power in the US, and arranged to have these
properties turned over to private owners, to run for their benefit (or to
pillage and destroy, as was the fate of most Soviet industry) ?
One can debate the practical merits of planned economies all day long but this
does not change the fact that _privatization is theft._ The former owners of
Soviet facilities - the Soviet people - were not adequately compensated for
their loss. It is highly doubtful that fair compensation for the privatization
of public property is possible _even in principle._ Do you dole out
homeopathic-sized shares of stock? (Criminals buy them back for pennies-on-
the-dollar from the masses in lean times - or at gunpoint...) What do you
issue to the not-yet-born citizens who will no longer be heir to the means of
production? (Answer in practice: zilch.)
Privatization is "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" writ large,
plain and simple.
Russians who are not in some way aligned with the thieves' guild which has
been running that country since the Soviet collapse by and large quietly
recognize this fact. This is why sympathy and political support for the so-
called "entrepreneurs" is and will continue to be thin.
~~~
lionhearted
> One can debate the practical merits of planned economies all day long but
> this does not change the fact that privatization is theft.
No, it's not. Theft is theft. Privatization is privatization.
There's been some pretty poorly implemented privatizations in history, but
also some decent ones. I'm in Mongolia now, and they did an okay job of it -
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_Stock_Exchange>
Still imperfect, but much better than the clusterfuck that was communism.
Seriously, everyone remotely educated in an ex-communist country hates
communism. I've been to most of them - Cambodians, Chinese, Mongolians,
Ukrainians, Czechs... it's only people who live in the outstandingly,
legendarily prosperous West that wax poetic about the horrors of that era.
Seriously, I've seen a lot of it firsthand. I've also been to still-somewhat-
communist places like Vietnam, and they operate a hell of a lot worse than
their neighbors.
Anyways. Generally speaking, trying to repair a massive, systematically flawed
system is hard. It's like how the tax breaks on mortgage interest screw up
American housing prices, making it so high earners have more of an incentive
to buy housing, thus locking younger people, lower earning people, and senior
citizens out of housing, or making them pay inflated prices.
It's screwed up. It's a bad system. But unwinding it now would cause a
cascading set of problems in the housing market. Thankfully, that poor system
of incentives is limited to one sector of the American economy, whereas
communism pretty much systematically destroys innovation, free thought,
invention, and any semblance of sanity and order.
Seriously, go compare equivalent communist and non-communist countries. West
Germany and East Germany, Taiwan and PRC, Cambodia/Vietnam and
Thailand/Malaysia/Singapore (not perfect comprables, but close-ish). Hong Kong
and PRC.
Oh yeah, and North Korea and South Korea.
Communism sucks. Unwinding a broken system is hard to do, but thank god
they're trying to move past communism.
Edit: Lots of upvotes and lots of downvotes. To the people downvoting, look -
Hacker News is, what, 80%+ Western Europe, USA, and Australia?
If you're sitting at your computer in San Francisco, you've never been further
out of the States than Cancun, and you've gotten your worldview from some
professor of Postcolonial Studies that also has never gotten outside of San
Francisco, then I don't know what to tell you. Seriously, stop and reflect for
a moment. Communism actually fails in real life. And I don't mean fails the
way AT&T's customer service fails. I know it's not a realistic short term
suggestion, but if you get the opportunity, check out Cambodia, the Killing
Fields, and Security Center 21. Check out Saigon, and note that much of the
infrastructure hasn't been replaced since the Fall of Saigon in 1975 (the fire
hydrants are still almost all American-made - when they've occasionally
failed, they're just removed and not replaced). Compare West Berlin and East
Berlin for a stark contrast.
Seriously. I don't know what to tell you. Communism is really, really bad. If
you're in the West and have never left the West, you don't understand and
can't understand. Go through a few of these countries critically, yes on
paper, but also in the real world and see how bad things were, and how much
better they are in sane places with private property and rule of law. I'm not
writing this for my health - if you currently are sympathetic to forced-
collectivism, I'd really encourage you to look at how it's turned out
historically. If you're sympathetic to communism, I'd like you to stop that,
because I think it's destructive the same way that believing in religious
violence is destructive.
~~~
grigory
No offense, but you sound like a broken western propaganda record. Having been
born in USSR, I know a lot of highly educated people that grew up, went to
universities, and built various careers in the USSR. While none think
communism is perfect, or even worked in that particular case, it has a lot of
merits and these people recognize them.
As Putin said, (paraphrased) "anyone who doesn't miss Soviet Union doesn't
have a heart; anyone who wants to bring it back doesn't have a brain." I think
this reflects well people's feelings towards the regime. It didn't work in the
long run, but it wasn't all bad - far from it.
~~~
ido
I'm surprised Putin paraphrased Mussolini (anyone who isn't a socialist as a
teenager doesn't have a heart, anyone who is still a socialist as an adult
doesn't have a brain)...
------
olegious
"1 in 3 prisoners are businessmen." Bullshit. The reporter probably misquoted
his source or "Business Solidarity" is simply pulling numbers out of their ass
for shock value- BBC has never been a friend of Russia so is happy to report
non-sensical numbers without further elaboration.
While it is true that corruption is Russia's biggest problem, the numbers
quoted make no sense. I know people on both sides of the coin- small and large
businessmen, tech entrepreneurs and high ranking FSB/military officials, so I
know a little bit about what's happening.
edit: Another piece of the article that screams of embellishment- "small
flat"- no Russian businessman that owns a 300+ employee enterprise would be
living in a "small flat."
------
ilitirit
> Business Solidarity, an organisation that works to protect small
> businessmen, estimates that one in six Russian entrepreneurs is in jail, and
> that one in three prisoners in Russia is a businessman.
How on Earth did they come up with that estimate?
~~~
mathrawka
No idea, but after reading that article... I don't think the numbers really
matter. If all the facts in the story are right, then one man will be away
from his children for 5 years, just because he didn't want to be strong-armed
out of his business.
That is enough for me to realize that something is very wrong with Russia.
~~~
guard-of-terra
We have to look at numbers (and look at how these numbers are calculated)
because else we're the are hand-waving and permanently-shocked.
It's obvious that you can find some atrociously bad things happening in any
place on earth. The interesting question is the general quality of life.
------
stygianguest
In a way, the same could probably be said of American entrepeneurs. Drugs is a
business, an illegal one, but still business. Imagine the (potential) talent
wasted, although perhaps the talented ones don't get caught.
~~~
wisty
Bullshit semantics. Drugs are not legal. They are in jail for breaking the
law, and possibly destroying the lives of addicts. Not creating jobs, and
resisting a corrupt shakedown.
You can run a legal business in the US with only a tiny chance of being
imprisoned for it.
~~~
radu_floricica
I'm not flirting with the "true Scotsman" here, but the problem is the
definition of what is legal. I'm positive Dmitry Malov did break a number of
laws - as an entrepreneur in an ex-communist country I understand very well
that this is unavoidable. The problem is that the law is designed to be
broken, in order to facilitate corruption - something no country is completely
immune to.
This is not very different from drugs, either. I still have to see a clear
study that marijuana is more harmful then either tobacco or alcohol, and that
it's not merely an accident of history supported by commercial and political
interests that it is now illegal and the other two aren't. Not as bad as
blatant corruption, true, but not semantics either.
~~~
wisty
OK. But you do know that selling pot is illegal, right? As do other drug
dealers. Businessmen in every country know they will inadvertently break a few
rules, but try to avoid it.
As for the legality of drugs, while I'm anti-drug, I think they should be
legal. At least then they can be controlled. Besides, enforcement is often too
spotty. The last three Presidents most likely used drugs, but nobody seems to
care. Just don't apply for a government job if you want to be honest about it
:)
And then there's the difference between manufactured drugs, imports, and home
grown; and the type of criminal organizations they support. I don't really
care about some dropout growing herbs for college kids, but other drugs funnel
large amounts of money to criminal organizations, who spend it on turf wars.
That's the question, isn't it? Are these "businessmen" just growing illegal
plants in a greenhouse, or are they also shooting their rivals outside
schools? I guess it depends on the case.
~~~
Jach
> That's the question, isn't it? Are these "businessmen" just growing illegal
> plants in a greenhouse, or are they also shooting their rivals outside
> schools? I guess it depends on the case.
Are Cartier et al. just selling pretty rocks to vain women, or do their blood
diamonds help fund militants in foreign countries? Pretty much any business,
legal or illegal, can be construed to contribute or possibly contribute to
some undesirable event. Most people don't care about Windows being used to
look up cat pictures, but should we care about Windows being used to power
nuclear submarines? How about all those "Wall Street folk"? Why are some
businessmen in jail and others aren't, even for exactly the same crimes? etc.
etc.
------
startupstella
it's always interesting to see non-Russians comment on this kind of news. for
Russians well aware of rampant corruption in post-Soviet countries, it's more
of an eye roll than anything else. Russia is infamously corrupt as a result of
the legacy of Soviet mentalities that made free market enterprise inherently
black market. until the justice system is cleaned up and held accountable,
russian will remain a corrupt 3rd world country unable to compete in the
global business rena.
~~~
Simon_M
So are 1 in 3 prisoners corrupt businessmen who have been jailed for their
'corruptness'.
Or are 1 in 3 prisoners businessmen unjustly jailed due to corrupt officials?
~~~
jeffool
Can't there be a mix? Maybe each is 1 in 6?
------
adaml_623
The Transparency International reports on corruption are an interesting
insight into how widespread these issues are. A lot of corruption grows on the
'everybody does it' mentality.
[http://transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/...](http://transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results)
~~~
radu_floricica
Please, please don't suggest it's the fault of the people paying the money.
It's a system problem, and it's clearly encouraged from the top. I've seen it
happen in many contexts...
~~~
iwwr
In many instances, it's the cost of doing business or securing an otherwise
legitimate service.
Of course, there are those paying bribes to trip up the competition or to
secure protection from obvious crimes (like theft, murder etc). But for
ordinary citizens, paying a bribe is an escape valve from an otherwise rigid
bureaucratic dictatorship.
The solution is not to crack down on corruption (except perhaps those 'obvious
crimes'), but to eliminate the bureaucracy fostering it.
Normally, bureaucracy was invented to ensure continuity of government even
with changing political leaders. You need something to keep track of expenses
and procedures on how to make decisions. But that creature grew like an
octopus, engulfing ever greater portions of society. This stranglehold must be
eliminated and not just reformed or offloaded into big web portals.
------
guard-of-terra
Does that mean that Russia has twice as much enterpreneurs as prisoners?
It's interesting how this article seem to already raise much more interest on
news.yc that the recent russian IT IPO with 8B valuation.
I'd take it with a grain of salt if I were you. My mother owns a small cloth
store in a town near Moscow and I'm positive that: \- She's not afraid \- She
doesn't "share her profits with the police and people from the tax
authorities" \- Still she blames the amount of paper she have to submit
(taxes, pension funds etc) and how careless then they interpret those papers.
~~~
VladRussian
>She's not afraid - She doesn't "share her profits with the police and people
from the tax authorities"
to say what you don't know what you're talking about would be underestimation.
You don't _want_ to know, and as result you don't know. Like ostrich you like
to keep your head in the sand and afraid to look around.
Several weeks ago you was claiming till foam in your mouth that your employer
- Yandex - doesn't share personal email and other users' information with FSB.
You called it "conspirology". Moron. A few days after that Yandex officially
reported doing it so.
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13274443>
You're brainwashed by current Putin's regime, and as result your credibility
about Russia is below 0, as i already told you so.
~~~
guard-of-terra
First, you're doing an ad hominem attack right now against me - right now.
This is sad.
"Several weeks ago you was claiming till foam in your mouth that your employer
- Yandex - doesn't share personal email and other users' information with
FSB."
Care to provide a link? Because if you don't, you have an acute case of lying,
you should see a doctor for that.
I would even be so kind to provide a link to our previous discussion:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2452184> Quotes are welcome.
Overall, you're behaving like a bitter and unpleasant person. You know
everything even when not been exposed to the subject for several years; I know
nothing and is an ostrich and my experience does not really matter; And I am
also a moron.
There is a word for your behavior, and it is "butthurt".
<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=butthurt>
------
adaml_623
British understatement: "Doing business in Russia is notoriously difficult".
It will be interesting to see Russia's progress over the next couple of
decades and see whether the problems with corruption get worse before they get
better.
~~~
guard-of-terra
Isn't it equally interesting to look at the two decades just passed? Nobody
does. Of course, future is always more interesting because you can theorize
instead of analyze, but in the next couple of decades it would turn boring
past, too.
~~~
adaml_623
Of course we look at the past. But how would you summarise the last 2 decades
in the ex-USSR region from the point of view of 'Business Friendliness'. Is it
getting better or worse? Are our standards changing, I certainly hope they
are.
~~~
guard-of-terra
\- There is an actual economy (there wasn't after the collapse of USSR)
\- It is possible to run a "white" business paying taxes and social securities
(During the 199x it was possible to add up all taxes on profit and get e. g.
102%, meaning that you have to pay 102 roubles in taxes for every 100 you
earn:)
\- There were all sorts of organized crime. They are no longer. (At least they
never intervene with the normal leagal business these days. Because I
understand how "There is no longer any organized crime" would be seen as
overstatement).
There are surely still many problems, but you just can't compare.
------
hartror
Corruption is the scourge of the developing world, there is a significant
drive in India to try to stamp out the practice but they have a long way to
go. Organizers of the Indian Commonwealth games are embroiled in corruption
scandals that have greatly embarrassed the country.
~~~
dimmuborgir
Apples and oranges. We're talking about corporate entrepreneurs and you're
talking about games organisers who are/were on government payroll. Corporate
scandals in India are almost unheard of. (Satyam fiasco is an exception
though)
~~~
khafra
What about the rumors that Monsanto bought its way into a near-monopoly there,
with the consequent small farmers committing suicide in droves as they lose
everything?
------
spenvo
If there's no safe harbor for legitimate businesses, then it makes sense
Russia would be one of the world's leaders in cyber-crime.
------
kjw
Funny conversation in the office:
"A combination of excessive bureaucracy and corrupt officials makes it a
hazardous enterprise."
Isn't that the same in the US?
Yes, except - in America, the government bribes business; in Soviet Russia,
you bribe the government.
------
I-RIGHT-I
"How on Earth did they come up with that estimate?"
What does it matter when the "interesting thing is the quality of life" and
when “the same could be said of American entrepreneurs" who deal drugs? The
truth of the matter and the logical conclusions drawn from the example are
lost on the all to willing ignorant. Too many Americans are contemptuous of
their own freedoms.
------
known
In India entrepreneurs face similar harassment if you're not from
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_caste> community
------
known
Hope <http://www.fairtrials.net/> can help them out.
------
askar_yu
actually it's the same situation in most (if not all) Post-Soviet countries.
~~~
andrest
With all due respect, if you truly believe what you're saying you don't know
what you're talking about.
A good counter example would be Estonia. But what's a good argument without
data, right?
<http://www.heritage.org/index/country/estonia> Ranks 14th on the Economic
Freedom Index? Well, what about other European countries: Italy 87th (ALL the
figures are more negative for Italy, including corruption, property rights,
business freedom), Japan 20th, Austria 21th, Portugal 69th.
[http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/...](http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results)
The Corruption Perception Index puts Estonia above Portugal and Spain. Just
for comparison, Russia has a score 2.1 out of 10, Estonia has 6.5.
I would've thought that on HN people give their arguments more thought,
especially if it makes such strong accusations. These countries are advancing
rapidly, the Post-Soviet countries have been independent for under 20 years.
Yet they already surpass older EU members.
~~~
olalonde
Estonia and Italy are indeed the exceptions that confirm the rule.
~~~
pnathan
Italy was never a Soviet country....?
~~~
olalonde
Exactly, they are both an exception in their respective group.
------
Fice
> 1 in 6 Russian entrepreneurs are in jail, 1 in 3 prisoners are businessmen
The title is pure FUD.
~~~
vog
_> The title is pure FUD._
Would you care to elaborate?
~~~
kds
One Possible Elaboration, Part I: (without claims for the _absolute_ truth
attached to it)
The biggest nightmare in the minds of the ruling class in the anlgo-saxon
world (chief US and UK political and business powers) is that Russia might
create an Eurasian political and economic union with Germany and France (and
EU generally), with high mutual economic, political, military and cultural
benefits.
That would mean huge loss of markets, power and influence for Washington and
London. There are such tendencies, no matter how improbable in the short-term
they look to the casual political observer who doesn't follow closely what's
really going on.
So in a certain way the Cold War is needed (if not required) to continue, even
after pretending it is something of the past.
One PR-related _nasty_ form of this war - only _bad_ news or _no_ news allowed
from Russia in the _mainstream_ western media. The less people think Russia,
Russian, (or even just Russians) are notions you could attach nice, friendly,
good-minded connotations, the better!
The president Putin really pissed-off the western state and big-business
powers that in a period of rising petrol/gas prices in 2000s they couldn't
extract the tens of billions $ they used to do easily in the 90s - back then
with the help of the local oligarchs enriched overnight by criminally grabbing
ownership of state economic base and infrastructure they themselves had not
built in the preceding decades.
Putin even had the temerity to use the extra-profits for increasing the
country's living standard and modernizing the armed forces - one of the 3 to 5
really formidable military organizations in the world.
And he started doing the really unthinkable - gently probing EU, Asian and
African (think Libya) countries for this disgusting idea of selling energy
resources for currencies other than the $. (And this in times of this self-
inflicted financial crisis.)
On the [re]New[ed] Cold War - just a few points of thought or questions for
someone to ponder over, if really interested:
How come NATO still exists when its mirror-antagonist military organization of
the former socialist EE-countries from the soviet block has gone to history,
dissolved peacefully and voluntarily?
Why are there still US military bases (old and new) across the EU-countries
today since Gorbachev retreated back the Russian/Soviet armed forces from East
Germany and Eastern Europe?
Why was the Gorbachev's 80-year jubilee held in London? If he was uniformly
acknowledged as such a good doer to humanity and democracy why wasn't that an
event held in his home country and among his own people proud of him?
What does the average ordinary Russian think of Gorbachev? Actually who was
robbed and who profited from the neo-liberal economic policies he had been
instrumental to be installed in Russia?
(continues...)
~~~
phishphood
russian army is not formidable military organizations and hasn't been since
1970s, may be earlier. the only thing formidable is the level of corruption.
There was an article few days ago that they feed dog food to their conscripts.
The only thing that keeps them being taken seriously is the nuclear threat,
which they parade (literally) every single opportunity they get
~~~
olegious
the not formidable Russian army made mincemeat out of the US backed Georgian
army a few years ago.
------
SkimThat
TL;DR - According to Business Solidarity, one in six Russian entrepreneurs is
in prison, with one in three total prisoners being classed as a businessman.
One example is a dairy farmer who refused to sell his thriving business to an
unknown buyer at the request of Russia’s interior security service. After
repeated threats, he was accused of fraudulently using a bank loan and
sentenced to five years in prison.
Not all businessmen end up in jail, as an estimated 60-80% don’t complain,
share their profits and bribe officials.
~~~
colanderman
Wait... is this a _novelty account_ on HN? I feel like I've just seen the
first horseman of the apocalypse.
~~~
rms
But... it's useful. :o
~~~
bh42222
But there's a high cost to this kind of "usefulness".
~~~
rms
I don't even know anymore.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Are Tim Cook’s Days as CEO Numbered? - mbgaxyz
https://markstcyr.com/2017/10/08/are-tim-cooks-days-as-ceo-numbered/
======
therealahutcb
I think the author misses a few key points here. A) as long as apples stock
price continues in an upward trend Cook is safe. B) lack of lines at product
launches is most likely engineered by Apple itself. It no longer wants to be
seen as a company that caters to first adopters and fringe users, any one
should be able to get access to the next product. This is supply chain
optimization, not lack of innovation. Lastly, we are in an inbetween period
when it comes to consumer products. The current form factor for most of
Apple’s product offering is going to see major shifts in the very near future,
only the tech needs to catch up. Apple, or any company can’t really do much
more with what they have. Better processors, cameras, display pixel
resolution, sure. Remove the headphone jack, add an oled touch bar, why not.
In my mind Cook is riding this out well. Apple has had a lot of missteps, both
pre and post Jobs, but I don’t see any indication that Cook is anywhere near
on his way out.
------
aaronaarzelbart
No they are not.
It's not perfect, and Apple under Tim had no ideas at all, but the money is
pouring in and nothing else counts. Just ask Steve Ballmer.
------
ramblerman
I can't get over the sleaziness of this site...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
98% of Americans Distrust the Internet [STUDY] - rhufnagel
http://mashable.com/2012/07/19/americans-distrust-the-internet/
======
Jesse_Ray
The headline is misleading. The study did not find a general distrust of the
Internet. Rather, it found that certain things on websites inspire distrust,
such as pages with too many advertisements that create the impression that the
content is fluff material designed to bring attention to the advertisements,
documents published a long time ago that create the suspicion that information
could be out-of-date, and so on.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Localsnear.me – Minimalist, clean design app to find your next coffee shop - rafalgawlik
https://localsnear.me/
======
rafalgawlik
Sometimes we want to go out for a walk somewhere without many purposes and we
are looking for a close cafe to drink coffee. Sometimes we spend Saturday
evening with friends and we are looking for a club or bar where you can sit
with a beer. Sometimes we are in a foreign city and we are looking for a
restaurant where you can eat something.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Salvia Divinorum and Brain Damage - Ronnie Day Warns - sadtales
http://ronnieday.com/2012/02/salvia-divinorum-and-brain-damage/
======
tree_of_item
TLDR: fool takes a mega dose of salvia, thinks it's dangerous and causes
"brain damage". No, you just took many orders of magnitude too much. Stop
spreading propaganda.
>Then, one night, I ended up taking several hundred doses at once… I was
drunk, and the part of me that hates myself took control...
And from the comments:
>As for my claim at “several hundred doses”, I was quite involved in the
Salvia Divinorum community during my use, and obtained some pure Salvinorin A
crystal from an organic chemist.
Perhaps the title should be "Alcohol and Brain Damage", or "Alcohol and Self
Control"...oh wait, we already knew about that problem, didn't we? Ridiculous
how he thinks salvia's to blame for that one.
~~~
sadtales
Mega doses of many drugs do not cause life destroying brain damage. You can go
into a month long alcoholic, pot or even cocaine binge and wake up fine a week
later. There is clearly something different, and the widespread impression
that some newer drugs like Salvia and ecstasy are safe is dangerous. These
drugs really can fuck your mind - that's the warning.
~~~
tree_of_item
Mega doses of alcohol will just kill you where you stand. Death from alcohol
poisoning is pretty mundane.
I don't think people realize how much salvia he took. Anyone who would need
this kind of warning would have no ability to get _pure salvinorin A_. That's
_many_ orders of magnitude stronger than any kind of extract you could manage
to get.
<http://www.sagewisdom.org/caution.html>
~~~
sadtales
If you read through the comments you will find many examples of lower dosages.
Sure it's not scientific, however calling it "propoganda" is ignorant. As if
this poor guys is part of a government conspiracy - he's pouring his heart
out, not part of a propaganda conspiracy.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pierre's Puzzle - beefman
https://www.av8n.com/physics/pierre-puzzle.htm
======
beefman
Solution: [https://www.av8n.com/physics/pierre-
answer.htm](https://www.av8n.com/physics/pierre-answer.htm)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tons traffic with zero effort is real, All you need is to translate your site - pojome
http://wplang.org/get-more-traffic-creating-multilingual-site/
======
pojome
Let me guess, your current site is only in English.
Without realizing it, you’ve just given up on of over 74% of all global users
that speak languages other than English. You’ve also committed yourself to the
most competitive market in the World.
Why not create various translations of you site? Neil Patel did it. He
translated his blog to 82 languages, and saw a 47% increase in his search
traffic – within just three weeks!
~~~
trtmrt
It all depends what is your market. English is international language so...
Fun fact: China has more people that speak English than US+UK combined ...
~~~
pojome
It might be international but people still prefer to read on their own native
tongue. It almost doesn't matter what your product or site is, you can always
benefit by building at least one more site in a different language.
------
moonbug
Hopefully to a higher standard then demonstrated in this headline.
~~~
pojome
That's right... but it's my first hackernews submission so be gentle. the
article itself is written better I promise.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GnuTLS considered harmful (2008) - calpaterson
http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200802/msg00072.html
======
agwa
The annoying thing about GnuTLS is that it normally might not be very widely
used, except that the Debian project initiated a huge push to make software
linkable with GnuTLS instead of OpenSSL, because of issues with the OpenSSL
license[1]. So if you're a Debian or Ubuntu user, you're probably relying on
GnuTLS a lot more than users of any other distribution, or people who compile
the upstream sources themselves. (Not that OpenSSL is a panacea, but at least
it gets more attention than GnuTLS).
[1] The OpenSSL license is incompatible with the GPL, making it technically
illegal to distribute binaries of GPL programs linked with OpenSSL (so Debian
refuses to do so), unless the GPL program has an OpenSSL license exception.
~~~
benihana
The irony of what's happening here, that dogmatism about a belief is causing
an inferior solution to be used, is infuriating and one of the reasons people
have such a problem with dogmatic personalities like rms. It's technically
illegal to use a better solution because of something as relatively
unimportant as a license. Think of it like a Maslov's hierarchy - having
strong security is _way_ more important to most people than having a proper
copyleft license. But instead of being pragmatic, we're stuck with a
ridiculously dogmatic solution that ends up harming way more than the ill it
was trying to cure.
It reminds me a lot of environmentalists going crazy to ban nuclear power in
the 70s before we had as clear a grasp on the impact of dumping carbon dioxide
into the air.
~~~
chimeracoder
> The irony of what's happening here, that dogmatism about a belief is causing
> an inferior solution to be used, is infuriating and one of the reasons
> people have such a problem with dogmatic personalities like rms. It's
> technically illegal to use a better solution because of something as
> relatively unimportant as a license.
Why do you jump to blame the GPL and rms, when one could just as easily fault
the OpenSSL authors for using the 4-clause BSD instead of the _far_ more
common 3-clause?
> It's technically illegal to use a better solution because of something as
> relatively unimportant as a license.
No, it is technically illegal to distribute compiled binaries that use
OpenSSL, because the OpenSSL authors wanted to retain the advertising
privileges. But it is not illegal to _use_ the software as long as it is
distributed in source and compiled by the end user.
I would not call licensing unimportant. As long as software is copyrightable,
licensing terms are _highly_ important.
~~~
pierrebai
The reason the GPL is annoying is that free license with an advertizing clause
have existed for a very long time and are actually widely used. A quick look
at the about box of various software will usually show you a long list of
mandatory acknowledgements for various open source licenses.
The problem is that the GPL willingly refuses to permit advertizing clauses.
Is there a congent argument about why an advertizing clause is a limitation of
freedom? The GPL is more often than other free licenses putting restirctions
on usage of diversely licensed software. It is an impediment. And, as we see,
it has real-world consequences. There is more risk for freedom using bad
software security than wielding to innocuous clauses.
~~~
chimeracoder
> The problem is that the GPL willingly refuses to permit advertizing clauses.
> Is there a congent argument about why an advertizing clause is a limitation
> of freedom
The advertising clause is not a limitation on freedom. The 4-clause BSD
license is a free software license; it just happens not to be compatible with
the GPL (not all free software licenses are).
The reasons for this are very practical: not only does it place additional
restrictions on the software (which is not permitted by the GPL), but if
multiple 4-clause BSD projects are used, each project requires its own
separate advertising statement (the 4-clause license does not permit combining
these into a single sentence):
[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html](https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html)
> The reason the GPL is annoying is that free license with an advertizing
> clause have existed for a very long time and are actually widely used.
Most modern projects using permissive licenses use 3-clause BSD, MIT/X11, or
Apache, all of which are compatible with the GPL. In this day and age,
choosing a 4-clause BSD license is a fairly conscious decision to make the
project incompatible with the GPL.
~~~
hyc_symas
Choosing the 4-clause BSD license is a conscious decision to continue to
receive credit for all your hard work, when a proprietary software company
comes along and includes your code in their product. To me this is a fair
compromise for proprietary companies who refuse to open up their source code
(i.e., would never touch GPL at all).
~~~
chimeracoder
As I mention in a reply to the sibling comment, I don't fault the developer
for choosing a free software license that suits their purposes. I just don't
think it's fair to blame the _GPL_ for the incompatibility that happens when a
developer chooses a 4-clause BSD license.
(Also, remember that the developer could always dual-license - ie, "GPL or
4-clause BSD - if you want to use my software in proprietary code, then you
have to advertise me").
------
euank
It's a shame this is being upvoted so highly when it's factually incorrect. A
rebuttal can be found here: [http://nmav.gnutls.org/2011/05/is-really-gnutls-
considered-h...](http://nmav.gnutls.org/2011/05/is-really-gnutls-considered-
harmful.html)
It's rather silly that the news of a critical bug in GnuTLS that was caused by
a goto somehow makes non-news and factually wrong information from 5 years ago
popular.
~~~
mcguire
I was a bit curious about this quote:
" _It turns out that their corresponding set_subject_alt_name() API only takes
a char \_ pointer as input, without a corresponding length. As such, this API
will only work for string-form alternative names, and will typically break
with IP addresses and other alternatives. _"
Yes, an API designed for strings will break if you pass it a struct in_addr _
or something, but it should be fine with a dotted-decimal string, right?
~~~
brohee
The issue is that they designed a API taking a NUL terminated string in the
first place, as it should have been something more generic. They knew little
enough of X.509 they didn't bother to handle every cases.
My understanding of RFC 3280 is pretty old, but the relevant ASN.1 type
describing a subjectAltName seems to be :
SubjectAltName ::= GeneralNames
GeneralNames ::= SEQUENCE SIZE (1..MAX) OF GeneralName
GeneralName ::= CHOICE { otherName [0] AnotherName, rfc822Name [1] IA5String,
dNSName [2] IA5String, x400Address [3] ORAddress, directoryName [4] Name,
ediPartyName [5] EDIPartyName, uniformResourceIdentifier [6] IA5String,
iPAddress [7] OCTET STRING, registeredID [8] OBJECT IDENTIFIER }
The IP address case is represented as an octet string, and the octet 0 is
legitimate, making their API broken...
~~~
mcguire
That's the X.509 certificate format, right? It's not a code interface.
My point was that it's not reasonable to expect an interface that appears to
be accepting a string to also accept random bytes; "10.0.0.8" isn't the same
as 0x0a000008.
------
Xylakant
Money quote from the message thread: "I can't even find the words to express
how gross this is." ([http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-
devel/200802/msg00100...](http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-
devel/200802/msg00100.html)) Interestingly, the conversation stays somewhat
civil even after that quote, looks like professionals at work :)
~~~
ajross
The quote seems to simply be complaining about the repeated use of the
subexpression "strlen(str)", by implication because it's needless and
inefficient.
Except that it's not. At least on glibc, strlen() is declared "pure" to the
compiler and (unless otherwise defeated by pointer aliasing) repeated calls
will be optimized away.
That's not to say that this is the best way to write the code, but the concern
seems poorly informed.
~~~
steveklabnik
It's not an efficiency concern, it's a security concern.
~~~
ajross
Common subexpression elimination isn't normally considered a security
technique, so I guess I don't understand your point.
Maybe you're saying it's a "code smell" kind of thing and that being sloppy
here indicates more subtle problems elsewhere? Which then hits the argument
about whether this is really "sloppy" or just intentionally simple.
Shrug. My point was just that this needs better evidence. There is no
demonstrated bug in the linked code, and the assertion that it is "gross" (OP)
or "insecure" (you) seems poorly justified.
~~~
Xylakant
The basic concern is that strlen() shouldn't be used at all on the data that's
passed to the given function since that data may be binary and not - as the
function assumes - null-terminated string. The code is "sloppy" and the
complete certificate handling seems to be sloppy. I don't want to be the judge
of that, but if you read the whole post and the ensuing thread, the argument
is made quite well and convincingly. And seriously, the last place I'd like to
see a sloppy implementation that assumes that the given data is benevolent and
does not contain a malicious payload is - guess what - a TLS library.
~~~
ambrice
There's only so much an API can do with garbage input. If this function took a
pointer and a length, that's not a magic fix, you could still pass it a bad
pointer and/or a bad length..
~~~
Xylakant
The problem here is that binary input is valid according to the spec [1]. It's
not malicious input in the sense that a programmer is using an interface
deliberately wrong but rather in the sense that a counterparty could send you
a non-garbage certificate that contains that data - which would be valid, but
still break this code. That's not comparable to passing a bad pointer or a bad
length.
[1] at least according to the post. The fact that gnutls added a binary
interface later seems to support that reading.
~~~
ambrice
Yes, the spec says the field can be string or binary. The API only handles
string fields. The API should be (and was) updated with a function that
handles binary fields, but there's nothing wrong with the original function.
If this was C++, and the function took a std::string, would you say it was
horribly broken because you serialized a 4 byte IP address into a 4 byte
std::string buffer and the function didn't handle it correctly?
~~~
Xylakant
Seriously, if the function deals with untrusted user input and pretends to
conform to a spec, weasel wording around by saying that the function does only
partially conform to the spec and will blow up in the users face when passed
other, spec compliant input and then deferring all responsibility to the user,
yes, that counts as horribly broken in my books (even though you were the one
to introduce those words). That's what we have libraries for, so that me and
you don't have to deal with this mess that x509 cert parsing is - I've seen
enough of it that I know I don't want to go down this particular hell hole -
and I've just been standing at the sideline and watching others wrestle with
it.
~~~
ambrice
functions don't conform to specs, the API and library as a whole should
conform to the spec. It's perfectly valid to have one function that supports
strings and another function that supports binary data.
~~~
leoc
Did they have such a pair of functions?
~~~
ambrice
They do now, and the first one is still using strlen(). Does the existence of
the second function mean it's now ok for the first to use strlen()? You can
still crash the program if you send binary data to the string function instead
of the binary function..
~~~
mercurial
So essentially it's an issue with C being weakly typed?
------
lispm
No matter how you look at it, C is the wrong choice for security relevant
systems software. But where is the alternative?
~~~
spiralpolitik
Actually C is an excellent choice for security relevant systems software
because the issues for developing in C are well understood and can easily be
mitigated by following 30 years worth of best practice patterns and using the
correct development tools.
The issue is developers are not using the tools or following the best
practices because they think they know better than 30 years worth of
experience or get caught up in bikeshedding about ideology, licenses and which
line the curly braces go on.
~~~
serbaut
Can you link to the 30 years of best practice document, I must have missed it.
~~~
spiralpolitik
A good place to start:
[http://www.amazon.com/The-CERT-Secure-Coding-
Standard/dp/032...](http://www.amazon.com/The-CERT-Secure-Coding-
Standard/dp/0321563212/)
Online:
[https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/seccode...](https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/seccode/CERT+C+Coding+Standard)
Others:
[http://www.amazon.com/Secure-Coding-Edition-Software-
Enginee...](http://www.amazon.com/Secure-Coding-Edition-Software-
Engineering/dp/0321822137/)
[http://www.amazon.com/Style-Guidelines-Programming-
Professio...](http://www.amazon.com/Style-Guidelines-Programming-Professional-
Programmers/dp/0131168983/)
[http://www.amazon.com/C-Traps-Pitfalls-Andrew-
Koenig/dp/0201...](http://www.amazon.com/C-Traps-Pitfalls-Andrew-
Koenig/dp/0201179288/)
~~~
Crito
Another good read _(it probably does not reflect how you want to write C code,
the rule about dynammic allocation is probably extreme if you are not writing
code to fly spaceships, but I think it is good to read regardless)_ :
[http://lars-lab.jpl.nasa.gov/JPL_Coding_Standard_C.pdf](http://lars-
lab.jpl.nasa.gov/JPL_Coding_Standard_C.pdf)
------
AceJohnny2
Any updates to this 6-year old post? I would hope that, with systems like
Debian forcing a move to GnuTLS from OpenSSL (for licensing reasons), it would
have since received more care.
------
blueskin_
I really don't see the Point of GnuTLS. Sure, if you want to directly
integrate OpenSSL with GPL code, you can't, but as it's a library, you should
be using it normally anyway. OpenSSL is far more widely used, has a longer
history, and I would say is better tested and understood.
------
hyc_symas
For the morbidly curious, ITS#5361 which triggered the above email:
[http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi/Incoming?id=5361](http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi/Incoming?id=5361)
~~~
hyc_symas
Other gems - ITS#5991
[http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi/Software%20Bugs?id=599...](http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi/Software%20Bugs?id=5991)
which required us to hack up a workaround. It also triggered ITS #5992
[http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi/Software%20Bugs?id=599...](http://www.openldap.org/its/index.cgi/Software%20Bugs?id=5992)
Discussion of the GnuTLS bug is summarized here [https://www.debian-
administration.org/users/dkg/weblog/42](https://www.debian-
administration.org/users/dkg/weblog/42)
And people still wonder that GnuTLS certificate verification bugs continue to
surface?
------
ape4
Fixing the strlen()s is easy but the binary stuff is harder. Assuming it
hasn't already been done.
~~~
hyc_symas
If you're focusing on the strlen() you're missing the forest for the trees.
The problem is someone who knew nothing about security or good programming
practices decided to write a security library and somehow convinced the
community at large to trust his code. Everyone's a beginner at some point but
no sane person trusts their system security to code written by someone so
demonstrably incompetent, and no honest beginner would attempt such an
undertaking and then advertise it as production-ready or secure.
The fact that there are still certificate validation bugs in GnuTLS today
indicates that the GnuTLS developers still haven't learned the essentials of
X.509 certificates. Even with a rapidly deployed fix for this most recent CVE,
you'd be a fool to rely on GnuTLS for anything. The code and the developers
have proven themselves not to be trustworthy. Multiple times.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Index finger or middle finger for mousewheel scrolling? - jongstra
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243380
======
tshtf
Sorry. The administrator has banned your IP address. To contact the
administrator click here.
Guess I won't be reading.
~~~
jongstra
Hmm, that is strange.. I guess that happened because I tethered an internet
connection to my laptop using my phone. Guess I won't submit any links that
way anymore :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Man's Search for Meaning - michaelsbradley
https://archive.org/details/MansSearchForMeaning-English
======
telot1
This book changed my life when I read it as an impressionable young man. I
think all people could benefit from Viktor's words. Big up to the archive.org
crew once again, they never cease to amaze me.
------
pacuna
I'm not sure why this is here but it's a great reading
~~~
dovdovdov
Since our live is projected to become less occupied by work, these topics will
come up more often.
------
derivagral
Not OP, but a similar author in this vein is Erich Fromm [1]. Some of his
earlier english works (Sane Society, Escape from Freedom) I found useful to
read when I was also reading Frankl.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm#Later_works_in_Eng...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm#Later_works_in_English)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bazel 2.0 - the_alchemist
https://blog.bazel.build/2019/12/19/bazel-2.0.html
======
malkia
One issue we hit with our CI, and mix of build systems is this - given a
changelist, find out which targets needs to be built, and which one needs to
be tested on pre-submit, and which on post-submit.
With that, we end up paying so much extra time building everything over and
over without need, and then not building things that we ought to.
So that's one reason to switch, but at the same time lots of people simply do
not get it. To them it seems intrusive, new, opinionated, and makes them not
happy to use it. I've used it for 2+ years at google, and yes initially - was
WTF is this? Then it hit me... And I'm sure the same is for buck, pants,
please.build, gn and other similar systems.
At the end of the day, you need way to express "end to end" your build graph,
from any single individual source file, shell script, or configuration downto
building your executables, deploying them, etc.
It's an industry tool, that needs to be looked, and if it takes 5 people to
support it, then it takes 5 people to support it, but you won't be wasting
other peeople's time on issues like - "Why this build in the CI did not
trigger?", why it takes, and wastes my time (waiting for presubmit), etc.
Yes, it does not come for free, but it's worth knowing and trying it out at
least.
If nothing else, here is the takeaway - Try to use a system with static graph,
where relationships are known before you start building things. It's not
always there, e.g. your #include "header.h" file is dynamic, but bazel forces
you to express even that, and later it catches it whether you've done it, and
breaks unless it's fixed.
~~~
klodolph
> Then it hit me... And I'm sure the same is for buck, pants, please.build, gn
> and other similar systems.
There’s an exercise you can do where you design a build system on the basis
that it shouldn't do unnecessary work (which can be very slow and frustrating
in practice).
My personal experience is that you can really quickly get to the point where
just reading the entire graph into memory gets expensive. People talk about
how Google is huge… but long before you get to that scale, you can end up with
a build graph that just takes forever to parse and evaluate. (At Google's
scale, it doesn't even fit in memory any more.)
So you decide that, as a hard design requirement, you should be able to only
load the portion of the repository that you are building. And then you want to
make this cacheable, so you can change the repository and know what’s changed
in some quick / reasonable way.
If you go down this path, you end up rediscovering some of the big design
decisions behind Bazel, Buck, Pants, Please, and GN.
------
habitue
Good heuristic for whether it's worth considering moving to bazel for your
build system:
\- Do you have 200+ developers working on a monorepo?
\- Are you willing to vendor all of your dependencies and maintain their
builds yourself?
If so, consider it. The productivity you're losing to unnecessary rebuilding
and re-running unchanged unit tests will probably be paid back if you can
contort your development process to the one Bazel expects.
If you're a small shop, the benefits Bazel is going to provide over, say, Make
(or whatever standard build system your primary language uses), are going to
be minimal. And the overhead of maintaining Bazel is going to cost you a ton
of developer time you may not be able to afford.
~~~
wereHamster
Another factor: are your languages supported by bazel? If you use the same
languages that google uses (C++, Python, go), it's fair to say that those are
well supported. For all other languages, even if they are widely used outside
of Google (JavaScript, nodejs), you may be out of luck.
~~~
zapita
Go support is not great either. Bazel can build Go just fine, but you will
need to throw away the standard Go tooling and use Bazel instead. There are
third-party helpers like Gazelle, but you know you’re in for a bumpy ride when
even basic operations require a helper.
~~~
klodolph
Go support is awesome, IMO. Personally I have favored Bazel over “go build”
for a while, except for pure Go projects with no generated sources.
Gazelle is wonderful and it doesn’t belong in Bazel core. Bazel is a build
system for every language, and Gazelle is for a subset of Go developers. Since
it’s not part of Bazel core, you can always replace it with something else.
~~~
zapita
But would you recommend using Bazel and Go without Gazelle or an equivalent
third party?
~~~
klodolph
I recommend Gazelle for importing third-party Go dependencies but not for your
own Go code. If you are using Bazel, just write the BUILD.bazel file yourself
with the appropriate go_library / go_binary / go_test rules.
------
bobdobbs666
I was subjected to bazel on a small project because the manager insisted we
use it. The rest of the company used a number of either custom tools or cmake
or premske.
It is utter hell when you have tons of third party libraries (internal or
external to the company) that you don’t have the source to and it is
especially painful when trying to integrate bazels behavior against other
build systems. Also bazels packaging and use of internal symlink renaming was
a constant source of suffering. Bazel pretty much destroys a number of totally
valid work linux commands for looking for so files.
Bazel might be useful in the case of a monorepo with a massive engineering
pool AND a massive cloud infrastructure backing that repo to handle all the
artifact sharing, but after having used cmake, premake, waf, random perl and
ruby scripts, or just checking vs projects into perforce manually, I’d pick
any of those before bazel for most projects. I say that having worked on code
bases from a few 10s of thousands to 25+ million LoC with teams small, large,
and distributed.
Bazel probably has its place but I have yet to find it.
~~~
klodolph
My personal experience is that Bazel cut through a bunch of the problems that
I’ve had with CMake, Waf/SCons, etc. Builds were fragile, they were not
reproducible, and there were implicit dependencies. This is mostly as someone
who’s rewritten a few build systems, rather than as someone who’s been
subjected to build systems by others (I mostly inflict these changes on other
people). With Bazel, I have much higher confidence that I’ll get consistent
results when I check out the repository on different computers or work with
other people.
That said, the major sore point with Bazel for me is the general lack of
expertise about how to work with it sanely. Depending on what part you’re
looking at, it’s somehow both “too opinionated” and “too flexible” at the same
time.
I think it will capture a big chunk of the mindshare for build systems over
the next few years, and you’ll see more and more of it. Over that time, people
will develop the expertise and best practices for different development
problems.
For managing third-party dependencies specifically, Bazel gives you a ton of
options, including options that only really make sense for huge orgs like
Google. Google vendors their third-party libraries directly into the monorepo.
If that doesn’t make sense for your org, Bazel lets you work with external Git
repos, with artifact repositories, with package repositories like NPM, or with
tools like pkg-config.
The thing that makes this hell, right now, is that few people how to use it
well and the documentation is rough. I’m personally very happy with it, even
for small codebases, but I’ve used it a lot.
~~~
bobdobbs666
Lack of docs plus lack of user base is also a giant failing of bazel. It’s
almost always impossible to figure out something I could make happen 6 ways
with most other build systems make work in bazel. And there’s little community
so now instead of getting work done I am debugging bazel source.
Also building distributable packages with bazel never seemed to work well due
to the constant aliasing of so files. Things that would work in the direct
bazel build would fail in packages and vice versa so now we had even more
pain.
Trying to suck up just header files and multiple so files was always arcane
bullshit as well.
We did work with git and other such functionality, but if you had to build a
package from another build system to bring into bazel there were always
annoying pain points.
Also bazel managed to bring in implicit dependencies in our system so that
clearly isn’t something bazel magically handles but was rather a product of
your expertise.
After reading build systems ala carte I am just more convinced bazel is not
the build system that I would really ever need. I’m not sure that build system
exists yet to be honest :). But in the work I do other systems solve my
problems better.
------
ddevault
For anyone thinking about Bazel for their project/organization... run as fast
as you can in the opposite direction. It's easily the most complex and
unintuitive build systems in the world, and I'm saying that as someone who
used SCons. At the last job where I used it, I was on a team of 5 whose
responsibilities included Bazel upkeep, which required anywhere from 10 to 50%
of our time. This was used by a broader engineering team of 50, working on 3-5
"big" projects and a few dozen small ones.
~~~
zellyn
If you are an organization with a large enough codebase (especially if it's in
a monorepo) that you need a shared remote cache of build artifacts, or remote
build sharding and execution, and have multiple languages (even protocol
buffers) interacting in complex dependencies, then you should run as fast as
you can away from less rigorous Blaze-alikes (Pants, Buck, etc.) straight
towards Bazel.
Yes, it's complicated, but it's also quite rigorous, and the rigor pays off.
(We at Square had already found a Blaze-alike necessary. We are currently busy
converting our Java build from Pants to Bazel.)
~~~
shrewduser
I'll never understand the fascination with mono repo's.
~~~
serverholic
Well for one you can commit to multiple projects in a single PR. Makes
coordinating changes across projects much easier.
~~~
dehrmann
It gives you that illusion; it doesn't solve versioning and deployment orders,
and I'd argue that that's the harder part of changes across projects.
Polyrepos make messy things...messy.
~~~
ecnahc515
Deployment ordering at large scale is avoided and usually done by not making
breaking changes. 4 phase migrations, always. Roll out new API, update
existing software to use new API, wait for everything to stop using old API +
backfill, remove old API.
~~~
erik_seaberg
I agree that gradual adoption of new APIs is the way to go, but once you're
doing that you no longer _need_ an atomic commit across all projects.
~~~
dehrmann
You actually never want an atomic commit for that class of changes across
projects because HEAD should always be deployable to all services. It's
obviously messier at FAANG-scale, but with even 25 devs, not properly staging
API-breaking changes leads to a lot of "only deploy commits before xxxx to
service foo."
------
kylecordes
As with many projects using semantic versioning, the major version bump just
signifies there are some breaking changes. Most projects will just switch from
1.x to 2 work noticing.
~~~
kryptiskt
That "changed some corner cases that likely won't affect you" and "rewrite it
all" looks the same in SemVer makes it next to useless, not that any other
system would be better. We just shouldn't have any expectations about version
numbers conveying much information.
~~~
ivanbakel
How is SemVer next to useless? The major version bump informs you that you
should go look up what breaking changes have occurred before you upgrade. It
is inherently useful for under-approximating the "safe" range of versions of a
piece of software that can be used, which is seen in practice in many package
managers.
That it can't differentiate between those two cases is because it's not meant
to. It's like complaining that the blurb of a novel is "next to useless"
because it doesn't tell you the complete story in a detailed way over several
hundred pages.
~~~
k__
SemVer isn't useless because of major bumps, but because of the minor and
bugfix.
Theoretically every version change can introduce a bug, which leads to an
implicit API change and as such require being a major version bump.
Also, fixing a bug can also introduce an API change, because the API can
behave differently with and without the bug.
SemVer just covers the intent, not what's actually happening, which makes it
kinda useless in most scenarios. I guess Elm gets it right, tho'.
~~~
afarrell
> SemVer just covers the intent, not what's actually happening
If I say "I'm leaving the office to get a sandwich", that statement only
covers my intent. If I then sprain my ankle badly, my statement doesn't say
what's actually happening.
SemVer has this flaw because it is a way for a human to say "this change does
not introduce a change to the API" and that human can be wrong. That seems to
me not _useless_ , it just means it is only useful for projects who are
willing to trust the maintainers of your dependencies to avoid being wrong
about introducing bugs.
\--------
It seems like you're arguing that a project which uses a dependency should:
1) Have humans check the dependencies anyway.
or
2) Wire up their automated test suite to something which can record calls to
the API of the dependency and the results of those calls. Turn the record of
those calls into an set of API contract test cases. Then, on any version bump
(minor, major, or patch), run those autogenerated test cases on the new
version.
... I think option 2 might be a good idea? It could be a required reviewer for
any dependabot PR.
------
JadeNB
I didn't know, so, just for anyone else who didn't:
> Bazel is an open-source build and test tool similar to Make, Maven, and
> Gradle. It uses a human-readable, high-level build language. Bazel supports
> projects in multiple languages and builds outputs for multiple platforms.
> Bazel supports large codebases across multiple repositories, and large
> numbers of users.
------
kovek
I’ll jump here to say that Bazel 1 was awesome, and I’m looking forward to
trying out Bazel 2.
I was wondering how to make sure Bazel doesn’t rebuild something it has built
previously? (Caching)
~~~
jingwen
There are many layers of caching within Bazel (remote/local, inmemory/disk),
but the central functional incremental engine is called Skyframe [1]. Almost
every computation within Bazel that can be incrementally executed is managed
in this engine.
[1]:
[https://bazel.build/designs/skyframe.html](https://bazel.build/designs/skyframe.html)
------
breatheoften
Does bazel use the word “provenance“ at all?
Provenance is a word I first saw advertised in a platform called dotscience.io
— that I find fundamentally interesting. And it seems quite relevant to
hermetic builds.
Provenance is about giving any state derived from an arbitrary computation an
identity that is derived from the content hash of the inputs needed to re-
compute that state ... in dotscience they achieve this by instrumenting io and
creating zfs filesystem snapshots when computing new provenance artifacts.
I think this concept could be the ultimate building block for a build system —
and it could become the job of oses/containers/runtimes/databases to
Coordinate to allow this abstraction to be tracked with sufficient efficiency
that programmers would feel allowed to freely use the concept of provenance
when building ... it seems to me like provenance could provide all the
information needed to support a distributed build cache? You wouldn’t actually
need a build language at all — just an api in each language to ask for the
saving of provenance artifacts. The artifact would hold all the info needed to
be able to recompute the artifact with the same state — which is also all the
info needed to decide when the artifact is out of date ...?
~~~
dub
Bazel is part of the story of how Google manages provenance for build
artifacts ([https://cloud.google.com/security/binary-authorization-
for-b...](https://cloud.google.com/security/binary-authorization-for-borg/))
~~~
Boulth
This is not entirely correct. It's not Bazel but "build system very similar to
Bazel" (from your source) and that's I guess their internal Blaze tool.
I wonder what's the real usage of Bazel (not Blaze) in Google.
~~~
karlding
According to this comment [0] by laurentlb (one of the people working on Bazel
who also commented in this post) from a year ago, Blaze is just Bazel but with
integrations to Google-internal tools.
[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18823546](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18823546)
------
djsumdog
I hadn't heard of this, and see there is a lot of concern over using this
project except for specific use cases.
I'm always weary of build tools that try to do multiple languages. On Scala
projects I use SBT, and for people who have tried to hack on SBT itself or its
plugins, you know it's a big mess under there. On other projects I've tried
using Gradle with Scala, but I found a lot of times Gradle just wasn't setup
for a Scala workflow or was missing essential tooling to make it as effective
as SBT (although its configuration is considerably more sane). Most of the
tooling and plugins around Scala are built around SBT as well (for better or
for worse).
I try to stick with the major tool for a given language; cargo for Rust, SBT
for Scala, the built-in tooling for go, with the exception of Java projects
where I'd gladly take gradle over the hellscape that is Maven.
~~~
vlovich123
That works for small teams/projects. If you're looking at hundreds, thousand,
or even tens of thousands person orgs you're spending time training everyone
on every individual build system (very time-consuming and error-prone).
Additionally because of the lack of consistency & unfamiliarity with having to
deal with multiple interconnected projects, these tools fall apart
spectacularly in that each team will end up with their own flavor of the build
system. This makes transitioning between projects very hard & silos off teams.
That can be fine but can make it even more of an efficiency loss for someone
switching projects/contributing partially to another project. Uniformity
reduces costs on many fronts but like anything else it's a tradeoff. Now you
need a team to maintain your Bazel/Buck/etc for each language & it may not
jive 100% well with languages that have opinionated package managers/build
systems alread (Node, Cargo, SBT, etc). On the other hand you'd probably end
up having to create teams to maintain your company's Node, Cargo, SBT builds
anyway except now you need to hire domain experts who not only understand each
language but also how it should integrate within your larger infrastructure. A
single uniform build system framework makes that easier.
------
zmmmmm
Build systems seem to sit in that category of perenial category of things that
keep getting re-invented, and either recapitulate existing problems or create
new ones.
I don't think people will ever fundamentally all agree on:
- static vs dynamic configuration
- custom language vs piggy back on existing
- intelligent, deeply integrated / understands code
it is building vs "language agnostic" but
necessarily shallow integration
All of these are fundamental tradeoffs that mean every tool will have
limitations that about 50% of people don't like. And so we will keep re-
inventing forever I think.
------
klysm
Didn’t this just hit 1.0?
~~~
bru
Yes, 2 months ago.
~~~
dehrmann
Must have some people from the Chrome team working on it.
~~~
jerryr
Not that they can’t also be contributing to Bazel, but I believe that Chrome
uses GN.
------
theodorejb
I miss the days when JavaScript frameworks could be built with a simple npm
install and executing a Grunt/Gulp file. Now to build Angular I need Yarn,
Java, Bazel, and hundreds of megabytes of additional tooling downloaded by the
build script. On a slow connection it takes ages to download everything, and
even then the build often fails (on Windows I have yet to get it working
successfully).
Edit: I'm referring to building the framework itself (e.g. to contribute a
fix). Building an Angular project with the CLI works quite well.
~~~
teeray
I miss the days when JavaScript frameworks required only a script tag.
~~~
lenkite
Those days are BAAACK. Use Vue ! (The best JS framework in the world!)
<script type="module"> import Vue from
'[https://unpkg.com/[email protected]/dist/vue.esm.browser.min.js';](https://unpkg.com/[email protected]/dist/vue.esm.browser.min.js';)
new Vue({ ... }); </script>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN - Raw Signal - My Side Proj To Keep My Skill Sharp - mysteryleo
http://tech.rawsignal.com
======
mysteryleo
btw, I'm not sure if it'll amount to anything big. My hope is someone will
find it useful.
for me personally, it's a lot of fun to work on machine learning and
algorithms. i had soooo much fun building it.
if anyone has any feedback, let me know.
------
espadagroup
How did you choose what feeds to monitor?
~~~
mysteryleo
wow. that's an entire module in the system. we do several things that analyze
feeds and decide if it fits a category. Basically, lots of text analysis and
analysis of the web.
We get candidates from people submitting feeds.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to monetize small web apps - duiker101
I recently made a web app that is gaining quite some traction in it's community. Imagine it as a single-page web-game. It's currently sitting at 1k unique daily users and I would like to try and monetize somehow.<p>I would add some small un-intrusive ad(even tho i'd prefer another solution) but it's not a content website and both media.net and adsense said it's no go.<p>There is also not much to convert it into a SaaS. It's whole appeal is that it's something easy.<p>I have also other similar apps of varying degrees of success and I could possibly apply the same.<p>Any other ideas of what I could try that is not exploitative of the users?
======
sharemywin
can you create another level or something to sell?
~~~
duiker101
It's not really a game, it was mostly an example of something that doesn't
really have a content.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
40% of Bay Area Residents Considering Leaving in the Next Few Years [pdf] - apsec112
http://documents.bayareacouncil.org/bacp17exodus1.pdf
======
elsewhen
does anybody have comparable data for other metro areas? is this a bay area
anomaly or is it a common phenomenon?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Change your mental perspective - fotoblur
http://www.lanceramoth.com/blog/2011/07/change-your-mental-perspective
======
skarayan
Absolutely, and the deeper you go the greater the impact. Change an axiom in
your mind and watch your world change. :)
------
blackboxxx
Thank you Lance. I needed to read that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Could The Ebola Outbreak Spread To Europe Or The U.S.? - timr
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/06/25/324941229/could-the-ebola-outbreak-spread-to-europe-or-the-u-s
======
giarc
The largest driver of this outbreak (and many ebola outbreaks) is the fear of
healthcare and the way many cultures treat the deceased. These two issues are
what would make transmission to NA or Europe very unlikely.
Many people in African nations will stay away from hospitals because they
believe they will get Ebola from the hospital. Therefore often people that are
sick die of Ebola in the community and therefore spread the disease (symptoms
of ebola are very similar to malaria in the first stages, and therefore does
not always draw attention to people familiar with malaria)
Secondly, when people die in many of these cultures, there is much more
physical connection with the body, potentially spreading the disease more.
In NA and Europe, people are much more likely to seek care and we also don't
have as much contact with deceased person (and also have guidelines for
handling of infectious bodies).
~~~
sliverstorm
_Secondly, when people die in many of these cultures, there is much more
physical connection with the body, potentially spreading the disease more._
You would think this would have been selected against ages ago.
~~~
emiliobumachar
Human culture changes _way_ too fast for evolution to act.
~~~
nhaehnle
I have no idea why you were down-voted. It's true: even if, somehow, evolution
had managed to at some point kill off all cultures with a certain trait, the
same trait is likely to develop again in at most a few centuries.
If somebody has solid arguments against emiliobumachar's point, I'd be
interested to hear them.
~~~
marcosdumay
Maybe the downvote was because it isn't completely true. Nothing can be too
fast, or too slow for evolution.
It's only that culture evolves by different means than genotipes, and by those
means fitting the norm more than compensates any unfitness caused by health
problems. At least at the short term.
------
Asparagirl
Last month, an American doctor who is working with Doctors Without Borders
(Médecins Sans Frontières/MSF) wrote these really harrowing and sad letters
home from the heart of the Ebola outbreak:
[http://news.unchealthcare.org/news/2014/june/dispatch-
from-g...](http://news.unchealthcare.org/news/2014/june/dispatch-from-guinea-
containing-ebola)
~~~
Ocerge
That was an absolutely terrifying read. What seems to make Ebola worse is the
manner in which you die...bleeding out on the floor, alone. Doctors Without
Borders is an incredible organization, and one that I gladly donate to yearly.
~~~
frozenport
They are not without criticism, in Rawanda they might have supported the wrong
side, supporting a group of refuges that would be the imperious for an
invasion of Zaire, the destabilization of which has lead to continuous
conflict in the Congo.
_As Alain Destexhe, the secretary-general of Doctors Without Borders, put it:
"How can physicians continue to assist Rwandan refugees when by doing so they
are also supporting killers?"_[1]
[1]Dancing in the Glory of Monsters: The Collapse of the Congo and the Great
War of Africa Paperback – March 27, 2012
------
KhalilK
_So should Europe and the U.S. begin worrying about the virus?_
As a North African inhabitant (Tunisia), I can't help but consider this
egocentric. Are other African countries somehow doomed?
~~~
privong
Well, NPR is an American organization, so it's not really surprising that
they're writing it with an eye towards their primary demographic (Americans,
and to a lesser extent, Europeans) .
> Are other African countries somehow doomed?
It would certainly be interesting to look at the likelihood of propagation in
Africa, and hopefully someone does that. But I'd be surprised to see that from
a news organization with a primarily American audience. Also, I didn't see
anything in the article implying anything about further spread in Africa.
~~~
KhalilK
That last question was merely sarcastic and based on my understanding of the
article; discussing potential spread to the US/Europe suggests that the virus
has already spread in Africa, at least that's how I saw it.
~~~
privong
I figured you were being sarcastic. But I do think it would actually be
interesting for someone to look into propagation within Africa.
------
bayesianhorse
Ebola is a third-world disease. First world countries are not at risk, due to
a combination of health-care, hygiene and "lucky" cultural differences. SARS
is much more of a first-world disease because it spreads faster, more easily
and has less visible symptoms.
Europe and US should still try everything possible to stop Ebola. And Malaria,
and Tuberculosis and all the various parasites that are affecting mostly the
poor people of the world....
------
nickthemagicman
The burn rate is too fast for Ebola plus Ebola isn't transmitted via air(yet)
so even if it did contaminate America or Europe it could be contained rather
easily.
~~~
Fomite
The notion that "the burn rate" is too fast is both on epidemiologically shaky
ground, and something I'd be disinclined to rely on given "the burn rate is
too fast" was supposed to be why we hadn't seen Ebola in places now
experiencing outbreaks.
~~~
kordless
Aparently, so is the air part:
[http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/pigs-
monkeys-...](http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/pigs-monkeys-
ebola-goes-airborne-112112). I was fascinated by its structure - a filament -
and it's small size of code - only about 20K base pairs. Also, it's mutation
rate is pretty high. That sucks.
~~~
nickthemagicman
Notice I put yet in parenthesis. Google: Reston ebola virus, or just read the
hot zone.
You want stuff to be afraid of look up: drug resistant tuberculosis, or the
scientist Yoshihiro Kawaoka.
------
quattrofan
What is the likelihood ebola could mutate into something that could be spread
by aerosol?
------
KaiserPro
Yes.
But there are a few caveats. First, does ebola have environmental factors?
What are the vectors for transmission?
Are parts of the rest of the world immune/partially immune already?
THe problem is that remote africa is very hard to look after, however
fortunately for the surrounding areas movement of people is slow and fairly
easy to trace.
If it were to hit a town in say nigeria, then its pretty much game over.
Country wide quarantines. Stopping of shipping and all movements across
borders.
------
joe_the_user
I usually hate mentioning it, but this seems a perfect example of Betteridge's
law.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)
~~~
rjsw
Maybe.
One danger that isn't mentioned in the article is that Ebola is suspected of
being carried by animals, fruit bats in particular.
Lots of bushmeat gets smuggled into Europe.
~~~
pyre
> Lots of bushmeat gets smuggled into Europe.
As a delicacy (i.e. people looking for Chimpanzee meat)? Or to serve African
immigrant populations (looking to bring home to a foreign land)?
~~~
DanBC
It used to be for personal consumption but now there is a "luxury market" and
illegal meat is being traded.
[http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/18/illegal-b...](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/18/illegal-
bushmeat-smuggled-europe)
------
batmansbelt
Probably not. You'd need a vector. I saw a documentary about an outbreak in
the 90s and it was a monkey that a man let loose in the forest.
~~~
Fomite
An infected human is a perfectly functional vector, and this is already a
sustained epidemic.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Jerry Cooperstein gives an "Intro to Linux" course on edX - FredericJ
https://www.edx.org/course/linuxfoundationx/linuxfoundationx-lfs101x-introduction-1621
======
incision
I'm a little surprised at the $250 minimum for the verified track.
While that's a tiny fraction of what one could expect to pay for a typical
certification prep class and likely less than a single credit hour at an
accredited university it's quite high relative to the norm on edX.
I've taken some _very_ good courses on edX, primarily from MIT and Berkley,
none of which have required even half as much as a minimum.
Still, I intend to give this a look when it launches.
------
jestinjoy1
Intro video is by Torvalds :)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmDricQGK6w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmDricQGK6w)
Good to attend courses with lectures given by creators themselves and great
teachers.
~~~
jordigh
I'm a bit bothered by how Linus is deified as the sole creator of Linux. This
phenomenon of course is not unique to Linux and Linus, of course. We routinely
look for heroes and lone wolves whom we want to believe did all of the work by
themselves, but the reason I single out Linux is because it was "just" the
missing component of the GNU operating system.
Whatever the relationship between GNU and Linux nowadays and despite the
examples of GNU without Linux and Linux without GNU, for many years in the
beginning they were inextricably tied together and would have never succeeded
without the other. To say that Linux is by Linus and nobody but Linus is not
fair to all the work that Linus based Linux on top of.
~~~
Joeboy
It's not just unfair, it's really confusing. Judging from the course
description, the "Linux" that Linus Torvalds wrote / maintains (the kernel) is
not the "Linux" that you learn about in this course (the UI/userspace).
We will probably arrive at a consensus about what to call Linux + GNU +
everything else around the same time we agree what line endings should look
like in text files.
------
Swinx43
This looks like a good starting point for people from a predominantly Windows
background that want to make the jump to Linux. Does anyone know if it is
worth doing the Verified Certificate? I would be more than happy to sign up to
it if it has any worth in the job market.
~~~
krat0sprakhar
Getting your way around the command-line is, IMO, a great skill to have. With
more and more companies using Amazon and other cloud services to host their
apps knowing linux is very handy even as a developer. Most of the job
listings, especially for startups do require the developer to have linux /
command-line familiarity.
~~~
Swinx43
I definitely agree. The question I have is if it is worth paying for a
verified certificate? It is $250 for the certificate and if it does not really
count towards anything I would rather take the course for free and then go
write a Linux certification instead.
~~~
incision
_> 'The question I have is if it is worth paying for a verified certificate?'_
I'd say that depends on what you want to get out of it.
I have a couple of verified certificates. I haven't had the chance to put them
on a resume yet, but I fully intend to for a number of reasons. I'm already
pretty well established in my career, I believe in what these programs are
doing and I'm plainly proud of my accomplishment.
That said, I expect people will look at them the same way they do technology
certifications or most degrees - _worthless_.
I understand where they're coming from as we've all encountered incompetent
people with such credentials, but I think it's a bit unfair to toss these
certificates in the same bin.
Reason being, these certificates have no established value.
Logically and anecdotally, people sign up for these courses because they want
to learn something. If someones goal is scamming their way into a job they'd
be better served by shopping at a diploma mill than slogging through an edX
course.
It's an interesting problem.
How do you popularize these courses while establishing and retaining value for
them - goals which are to some degree at odds with each other.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
'Transit-Oriented Teens' - mozumder
https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/03/new-urbanist-memes-for-transit-oriented-teens/556790/
======
zjaffee
This group is awesome and for so many has sparked an interest in urban
planning, transit and local politics. In many cases actually leading people to
attend local council meetings, run for office, the list goes on.
~~~
zjaffee
This also said, it should be noted that this group has inherent biases against
the tech industry due to many aspects of gentrification that tech new money
represents, and the lack of recognition among said new money for their role in
gentrification.
~~~
closeparen
NUMTOTs idealizes city populations and social climates at the nadir of urban
decay, and wishes that they could have all the infrastructure-investment
trappings of contemporary global powerhouses without any of those pesky
middle-class people ruining the culture and taking up space.
It's the revolutionary-socialist working class squabbling with the salaried
middle class while millionaire homeowners cheer them on and pocket the home-
equity gains of a "we should only build what we can publicly finance"
development policy.
It holds that cities are great, but all actual examples of people
internalizing this information and migrating towards urban lifestyles are
crimes against humanity. It believes that people should not live in suburbs,
but that development should be subject to as much local control as possible
(maintaining a situation where most housing is in suburbs). These
contradictions are held to be contradictions of capitalism itself, with a
socialist revolution and a completely unspecified "make housing a human right"
scheme as the only remedy.
It's fascinating, enthralling, maddening. I was really into it for a while and
burned out.
~~~
Itaxpica
It mostly just sounds like bog-standard leftbook with an urbanist skin.
~~~
closeparen
Yeah, with the caveat that moderators explictly say "this is not leftbook" and
there's a fair amount of debate from the YIMBY side.
~~~
zjaffee
Saying this isn't leftbook means that you won't be banned from the group for
having opinions that aren't highly liberal.
------
fenwick67
I love NUMTOT and honestly it was one of the things that made it really hard
to get off Facebook
~~~
craftyguy
It's rather ironic that they wouldn't exist, or at least be nearly as popular,
without the 'tech industry' that they lothe.
~~~
PascLeRasc
'We should improve society somewhat.'
~~~
closeparen
... by eliminating the class of people who work on technology so that they no
longer make money or contribute to demand for space. The criticism stands.
------
ggm
We could use them in Brisbane. State and city governments slogging it out over
a metro (rubber tired trackless bendy buses) vs tunnel thing. Brisbane
transport has been up in the air since Patrick Geddes day. It's a mess
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WebGL X-Wing - 5hoom
http://oos.moxiecode.com/js_webgl/xwing/index.html
======
grammati
If the intent is to make me pay attention to WebGL, it just may have
succeeded.
If, on the other hand, the intent is to prove that I suck at video games, then
it's a resounding success.
~~~
colomon
My 3 year old thought it was cute every time I crashed, so it was also a
resounding success at amusing him.
------
JonnieCache
All these webgl demos cause my late 2008 macbook to grind to an absolute halt
in a way that no other program seems to manage. You can almost hear the thing
whimpering. Even the stuff like the volume control buttons on the keyboard
stopped responding, and they normally take priority over everything else
(handled by the kernel perhaps?)
~~~
nknight
Late 2008 MacBook? You have an Intel GMA GPU, expect strange, inconsistent, or
simply useless performance in 3D rendering. It's probable the browser makers
have paid little attention to performance on such chips.
~~~
JonnieCache
The thing is that chipset can play half life 2 just about alright.
~~~
nknight
The Source engine is much more mature and much better optimized than what's in
WebGL implementations right now. Valve and other game makers have strong
incentive to make their games run as well as possible on a wide variety of
hardware. The WebGL implementations just haven't had the same kind of
investment in time and expertise.
~~~
McP
Writing a game engine is quite different to writing a set of bindings (which
is basically all WebGL is). There isn't much scope for optimization so I
wouldn't hold out hope for WebGL apps running much faster in future browsers.
~~~
nknight
Hm, sorry, I was under the impression the WebGL implementations were being
done rather differently than they apparently are. I hadn't thought the calls
were getting passed through directly due to security concerns.
Chrome, at least, appears to be a straight binding with extensive
validation... That... kinda makes my nervous.
~~~
bri3d
I think your nervousness is well founded, and that's why Microsoft won't
implement WebGL [1], but Chrome's developers seem to think they can make
things secure [2].
[1]: [http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-
cons...](http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-
harmful.aspx)
[2] : [http://games.greggman.com/game/webgl-security-and-
microsoft-...](http://games.greggman.com/game/webgl-security-and-microsoft-
bullshit/)
~~~
nknight
I don't think nervousness about a particular implementation approach is a
reason not to implement WebGL, just a reason not to do it in what I gather is
Chrome's way.
On the other hand, Chrome's strategy might just be getting explained poorly.
My nervousness comes partly because the way it's described sounds like a
filtering strategy. If it's more like a whitelisting strategy, it could be
considerably less scary, and more in line with what I was kind of expecting
from browser vendors.
------
jeremy82
Terrible graphics problems on my i945-Board (using Chrome on Win 7/64bit). I
can see the fighter, but almost nothing else.
~~~
ajross
Works fine (though somewhat slow, maybe 15 fps) on Intel graphics under linux
for me. I gotta say I'm getting to like this new era where even GPU drivers
work better in linux.
------
apaprocki
Tried on a Mac Air in both Chrome 14 / FF 8 and all you see is a giant blue
haze with a white outline of the X-Wing.
~~~
moxiemk1
I am having a similar problem with a current-gen Air in Safari 5.1 w/ WebGL
enabled. I just get a half of the screen (by diagonal) of green dots, and some
other stuff that I think is the X-Wing. (then I die)
------
Apreche
Because this doesn't capture the mouse it's really hard when you have to go to
the top of the screen (menu bar) or bottom (taskbar). Without full screen
mouse capture. WebGL will be nothing more than a toy when it comes to any kind
of serious game.
~~~
mithaler
Chrome just added an API for this in their dev builds, for Native Client at
least. [http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2011/10/dev-
channel...](http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2011/10/dev-channel-
update_18.html)
------
bmurphy
I can't play it. I've played too many FPS and Flight Simulators in my time.
The controls need to be inverted so i can fly it like a real plane. Too bad.
~~~
zacharycohn
I also had this problem. Whenever I'd need to respond quickly, I'd try to use
inverted controls, then crash.. :(
------
kristopher
Hint: Google disables some drivers by default, although by simply navigating
to chrome://gpu/ I was able to kick-start WebGL on my Mac.
------
grovulent
Just like beggars canyon back home
------
reedlaw
Do you ever get to the point where you shoot into the vents?
------
nupark2
These posts remind me of the "put a bird on it" sketch. All you need to do is
"put a 'web' on it" and suddenly it's amazing.
Color me unconvinced, but we're looking at graphics that are roughly on par
with what we saw desktops games in 1999:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R2nCrsDHeA>
I realize that this is just a small tech demo, but even still -- GL is only
part of the equation. The kind of platform optimizations that are eeked out in
the game industry are substantial and extend well beyond just the GPU.
The interest in web (flash) games was largely driven by the difficulty of
distributing casual native games -- and that's quickly becoming a solved
problem.
~~~
fragsworth
I wouldn't say it's "amazing", but it's definitely "upvoteable" for two
reasons:
1\. I don't have to install it. This means I can satisfy my desire for instant
gratification and quickly go back and upvote it.
2\. I support open standards. I'll upvote it just for the fact that it's
implemented in WebGL and not some proprietary bullshit, and I'll continue to
do this until all the proprietary bullshit is long dead and gone.
~~~
mappu
The fanaticism surrounding your second point is very popular on the internet
and is quite interesting to think about. What exactly is the problem? I don't
have a hard answer, but let's objectively compare the advantages against a
standard, closed-source mid 90's commercial PC game.
Longevity: x86 is in no danger of disappearing, and even if it was, popular
open-source x86 emulators and virtual machines exist, with better performance
and compatibility than a lot of WebGL implementations.
Proprietary platform: x86 has a very long history and is approximately
perfectly documented. On the other hand, every browser implements WebGL
slightly differently.
Can't see the source: Javascript can be minified and obfuscated to the point
of incoherence. On the x86 side, i feel that this would be better addressed by
improving assembly education: Everything is open source if you have a
disassembler.
Software Freedoms: It's inherently more free, in the RMS sense, to have the
content locally on your own computer than it is to stream it from somewhere
else.
------
threepointone
memories of zaxxon! the environment's a bit too dark to see clearly, but
nicely done.
~~~
stefs
yes, the game would be a lot more fun if i could actually see the obstacles.
~~~
drhodes
the cannons do a pretty good job of illuminating the channel.
------
captain-asshat
F11 Friends.
Edit: Highscore 43,906
~~~
nknight
Fullscreen doesn't help when you have multiple monitors, hot corners, and
windowshade functionalities. The lack of mouse acceleration adjustment is also
a problem on large screens.
------
mtinkerhess
Really cool!
The display jiggles a little bit. About twice a second the camera shakes a
little—I think maybe the roll of the camera changes?
I'd like the option to invert the up / down keyboard buttons—I kept going up
when I meant to go down, and vice versa.
------
moomin
I know it's churlish of me, but the game being emulated is "star wars" not
"x-wing".
Pretty impressive, though. Now, if Adobe could produce a webgl to flash 11
converter, it might be possible to actually do something like this
commercially.
------
latch
lol, I wonder how many other people will hit ctrl-left and end up switching
spaces.
------
cschep
Impressive and fun. Dying to reverse the up and down on the arrow keys though!
------
spitfire
I melted my computer for that?
------
yahelc
Weirdly, for me, doesn't work on Chrome 14, but does work in Firefox 6.
------
PedroCandeias
Shame so many webgl apps refuse to run properly on the 2011 13" mbp.
~~~
tvon
Odd, works fine on a 2010 13" MBA (in Chrome).
Though that fan does kick up quite a bit...
~~~
nknight
Your 2010 MBA has an nvidia 320M chip. Pedro's 2011-era 13" MacBook Pro (there
is no 2011 MacBook) has an Intel chip. The 320M isn't a particularly great
GPU, but I expect much better performance and compatibility out of it than the
Intel.
------
tathagatadg
loved it! Smooth....
------
abrown28
Pretty sweet ;)
------
adlep
Very addicting...
------
jgh
cant see shit.
------
nknight
Relying on absolute cursor position out to the very edges/corners of the
window is a bad idea, it's too easy to go outside and lose control while
trying to get to the extreme positions necessary.
~~~
abdulhaq
Absolutely, for this reason it's much better to use the keyboard.
~~~
nknight
Keyboard control for something like this is way too slow. I can't react in
time, especially with the field of view partially obstructed by the fighter.
------
Raphael
I love it. And all these people with MacBooks are really wishing they had
something better. Haha.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Where do you find a co-founder for your startup? - UXDork
======
flyinglizard
Pick someone that you know (not necessarily a friend), but take a few
precautions.
First, this person may completely change their character under pressure or a
feeling of impending doom, just as you need them the most. You can work with
someone in the same low stress job for years and you'd still be in for a
surprise when the going gets rough.
Second, you need to walk a very fine line between selling them on your idea on
one hand and making sure your future prospects and goals are aligned. Selling
someone a dream is easy, but it's just not enough for coping with the ongoing
brutal wear that's startup work.
Third, make sure this person complements your skills with as small of an
overlap as possible.
Fourth, assign responsibilities from day one, and aim for a vesting period for
stock ownership (for all founders!) so if he ditches, you won't find yourself
with a defunct company.
So to sum it, it's not so much about where to find a cofounder, as much as it
is managing the process and expectations.
------
eddie_31003
I agree with @alain94040. The best co-founder are your former classmates, co-
workers, and the other people you have already worked with and know. Look for
really smart people who are around you that possesses a skill that you lack.
i.e. If you're technical, try to find somebody who is business oriented.
I would also hit up Meetups, Users Groups, and maybe Alumni mixers. Chances
are you might run into an old co-worker/class mate that shares similar
interests.
------
alain94040
Hope this helps: [http://www.slideshare.net/alain94040/co-founder-
issues](http://www.slideshare.net/alain94040/co-founder-issues)
The best co-founders are people you already worked with. Go back in time, even
for ex co-workers you think wouldn't be interested, meet the ones you deeply
respect and start meeting with them for coffee.
Maybe they'll be interested, or at least they can recommend someone else they
trust who could be. Repeat.
------
funkylexoo
If you have to ask, then you may want to consider flying solo.
(Sorry if it sounds a bit negative)
------
haidrali
[http://app.colunchers.com/](http://app.colunchers.com/) might help you
------
kwc98
This may be helpful:
[http://cofounderslab.com](http://cofounderslab.com)
------
staunch
Someone you have worked with for > 1 year and do not have doubts about.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Humans of Mechanical Turk - cooop
http://twitter.com/humansofmt
======
softdev12
At first, I didn't understand what this was from the twitter page. [Note: I've
used Mechanical Turk before and thought it was an odd experience.] Then I went
to the tumblr and it explained it as "These are the Humans of Mechanical Turk,
one story at a time." So I got it.
The few people who've put up stories seem to be all in the U.S. I always
assumed that the tiny payments for HITs would encourage people from lower wage
countries to be the majority of turkers. Interesting to see. Good job.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A man who paves India's roads with old plastic - nwrk
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/09/the-man-who-paves-indias-roads-with-old-plastic
======
thisisit
Wasn't this discussed yesterday?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17490990](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17490990)
------
tzakrajs
But isn't the problem with plastic in the ground that chemicals would leech
out of it and debris would break off from it and be ingested by animals and
humans? Is a road that much better than dumping it in the ground away from
humans and animals? I worry about physical changes to the road over time. Is
it safe to inhale the dust that is generated from wheels rolling over a sun-
burdened piece of plastic for years?
~~~
ryanx435
from the article:
To environmentalists who believe that the technology could be harmful because
of toxic fumes from plastic residue, Dr Vasudevan points out that the plastic
used is softened at 170C. “Plastic decomposes to release toxic fumes only if
it is heated at temperatures above 270C (518F). So there is no question of
toxic gases being released,” he says. Since plastic coats the stone and
interacts with the hot bitumen, it’s properties change and it doesn’t break
down when exposed to light and heat.
~~~
ryanmercer
You don't need toxic fumes, plastic doesn't go away. It breaks down into
smaller and smaller pieces and contaminates the environment.
See:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microplastics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microplastics)
~~~
24gttghh
>The bitumen-modified plastic improved the tensile strength of the road by
making it more durable and flexible. Plastic also prevented pothole formation.
When the layer of molten plastic filled the space between the gravel and
bitumen it thwarted rain water from seeping in and causing structural defects.
Seems like it would break down less than a regular tar-only road and last
longer to boot.
~~~
tzakrajs
It seems like it will help keep the overall rigity of the road but it says
nothing about how the material will break into pieces on the exterior layers.
Plastics are known to cause cancer and other harm to living things when
ingested, and my curiosity is if plastic could be more damaging than the thing
it replaces.
~~~
24gttghh
Myself, I'm not convinced plastic is more harmful to the immediate environment
in this application than the tar/bitumen itself. It does seem the issue of
plastic shedding into the environment has not been investigated enough, but
does tar not leech toxic chemicals as well?
------
ryanmercer
This is terrible. Plastic is forever and breaks down into smaller and smaller
pieces entering the environment.
~~~
0xcafecafe
It seems from the article, they have considered that and concluded that since
plastic becomes part of the bitumen, and does not exist as plastic particles.
~~~
ryanmercer
Unless it has chemically changed considerably it's a problem. My impression is
they are saying "don't worry, chunks aren't going to break off because it's
melted into the bitumen" and are wholly ignoring the micro scale.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google has killed Android (the brand) - muratmutlu
http://www.fabcapo.com/2013/02/google-has-killed-android-brand.html
======
RyanZAG
This is a great move by Google. Android has a strange brand image going for it
- but it's definitely not a premium brand. The main problem Android is
currently facing on the consumer side is that people who have bought cheap
Android devices (especially tablets) get a (deservedly) terrible impression of
Android.
Google is fixing this in the best way possible. Instead of having a 'Windows
Phone', a 'Blackberry', an 'Apple', and an 'Android', you now have a 'Galaxy',
a 'Droid', a 'Nexus', and an 'Android' (cheap Chinese), etc.
This means that instead of Blackberry now competing against just Android and
being a go-to choice if you didn't like Android, they're now competing in mind
share with each individual manufacturer. This is going to be very bad for non-
Android, as their brand share is now being heavily diluted among countless
choices for general consumers.
Brilliant marketing play - I wonder if it's a conscious move by the Android
alliance, or it's just playing out naturally?
~~~
gbog
"Brilliant marketing play"
Maybe, but where the idealism gone? Both on HN, in tech circles, and, yes, at
Google, there was some healthy dose of idealism. You know, this thing that
make people do thing for something else than money, for the better good of
humanity for example.
Idealism (and anger) brought us Linux, Vim, the Web, etc.
And it is killing me to see Google follow the normal evolution of mammoth
corps, doing all for the brand idol, trying to launch a vast fishnet and catch
as much fish as they can to feed the idol.
Brands are not bad per se. In the old times, a good label for wine was just
the name of a family who knew how to craft wine, and same for clocks, cars,
and on. The brand was a simple hook to hang a carefully pampered reputation
vis-a-vis your clients. The core was craftmanship.
Now the reputation has become an end by itself, and one spend more time or
money building a "reputation" than crafting and selling useful (or useless)
tools. And the more reputation you have the more you need, just like power.
~~~
ForrestN
Your old impression of google was a result of branding. Google has been
heavily reliant on branding from the very beginning. Being nerdy, "don't be
evil," even being anti-marketing are all very conscious branding strategies,
emphasized over and over again in PR contexts especially. Maybe they were also
believed in as ideas within the company, but that's beside the point. They're
just changing brand strategy, not suddenly discovering branding.
~~~
bdowney
Not sure about that. Google is actually pretty bad at PR with idiots like Vic
Gundotra and Andy Rubin alienating users left and right. Eric 'creepy' Schmidt
wasn't much better and said many stupid things while he was CEO.
\-- I'm the security master.
~~~
ben1040
Just a friendly FYI since you're new: around here we don't sign our comments.
<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>
~~~
yuhong
Yep, put this in your about instead.
------
polshaw
Why are people upvoting this inane nothing-article.
>Explain.
Ok, basically android is well known, it is not just geeks (yes there are some
technophobes that don't, but a minority IMO). It is market dominant. So no,
it's not a 'feature' any more, and google don't need to explain that their
phones have android. The phone manufacturers have always been keen to create
their own brand, over time that obviously becomes more successful. The
additional nexus brand is google's way of trying to steer the ship.
So, we knew all this stuff. Google is not actively replacing (killing) the
android brand, it's just natural evolution. There is no (more) push to use the
'google' brand like the article suggests, and obviously nexus must be a
different brand because it is a subset of android. So, this article has 0
substance, most of it is made up of just telling you normal people don't know
their phone OS, fascinating.
~~~
mhartl
I'd guess they're upvoting it because the idea sounds ridiculous before you
read the article, but after you read it you realize that it's probably right.
~~~
piyush_soni
I read the whole article and that was my first impression. It's really a
nothing article.
------
Zigurd
The name Android was inherited from a pre-product company Google bought. The
logo was copied from an old video game. Neither were intended to be a brand.
Android as a brand is a legacy of Google's geeky days. Not that that is a bad
thing. Android is a nifty fun technology, and having a name that's more fun
than "OS Flux Version 7" is good.
Android phones always had a Google logo, and the original branding strategy
was for Android to be in the background behind names like "Droid." Android
only became a brand because Google has so much more mind-share than mobile
OEMs.
Android fading as a brand is, at best, a a sign that the Google ecosystem and
OEM brands like Galaxy are coming to the foreground. At worst, it is a sign
that Google has lost control of branding and that the Nexus brand has been
rolled out too slowly.
One problem Google faces is that OEM brands come with OEM bloatware that is
90% useless. Samsung's mobile device management extensions are the only OEM
"innovation" I can think of that is actually a useful improvement. While there
is nothing wrong with pre-loading thoughtfully curated software, there ought
to be a "reset to Nexus state" icon on every Android's home screen. Conflating
OEM bloatware with brands is a very bad outcome.
------
inerte
It's interesting to compare with other devices. Consumers buy:
\- a Windows (version) machine. Not Microsoft, not just Windows. But Windows
98, Windows XP, Windows 8
\- A (hardware manufacter), with Windows (version), like a Dell PC with
Windows XP. Few buy an specific hardware manufacturer brand without caring for
the operating system.
\- A Mac. Not a Mac OS X, not an Apple machine. Some do know the feline
\- An iPhone (model), an iPad
\- A Blackberry. Not RIM, not Blackberry (version)
\- A Nokia (model)
The only operating system there is Windows, along with its version. Maybe
because only Samsung managed to be seen as a quality product using Android,
Google is killing the brand. The different apps, settings and behaviour
depending on the hardware manufacturer and carrier only make the situation
worse. My Android, version whatever, is very different from my friend's
Android. Maybe if Google had enforced uniformity, things would have been
different. There's no Windows XP from IBM, or Windows XP from Dell. On the
other hand, maybe fewer companies would have shipped Android if they could not
customize it.
This looks like a business failure to me. It would be better for Google to
have its operating system installed in as many devices as possible, and
consumers actually buying it because they specifically want Android, with its
Google apps and services. MS managed to do it, and I bet Google wanted, but
they are giving up. But unlike MS, Google does not sell software, so I guess
as long as people are still providing information for ads, it's a good
situation for Google.
------
Lexarius
When Google first announced the Android OS, my first thought (after "that's
silly") was "What will Google do when they want to release a line of actual
androids?".
Deep down, I'm hoping they're de-emphasizing the Android brand so that they
can re-use the name, like Microsoft did with Surface. Announcing Google
Android, the internet-connected humanoid assistant you never knew you needed.
~~~
dhimes
The best part is it will already know everything about you.
~~~
sigzero
Do I hear the sarcasm in that post? :)
~~~
skore
Reminds me of the image jokes on Google+ signup screens. Subtitle: Very funny
google, asking me about data that you already know.
------
CJefferson
My initial instinct seeing this title was "what complete rubbish", but on
reading the article they have a point.
If you want more convincing, go to the google nexus pages, and see how many
references to Android you can find, and where they are. Certainly you can find
Android mentioned, but not on the main page, and not prominently.
~~~
pefavre
Here's the Nexus 4 page: <http://www.google.com/nexus/4/> Indeed, Google is
everywhere, and Android is mentioned at the very bottom.
------
MatthewPhillips
I don't recall there ever being much branding effort on Android. Perhaps there
is less today, I won't try to argue that, but from the start it was the HTC G1
with Google. Manufacturers have never wanted to embrace the Android brand as
that turns them into mere part assemblers. The only time I see Android brand
being used is on low-end phones where they want to get the point across that
it is backed by a good ecosystem.
Here's the Nexus One sites, also no Android to speak of:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20100319002511/http://www.google....](http://web.archive.org/web/20100319002511/http://www.google.com/phone)
~~~
mimiflynn
I got a little Android wind-up walking green robot at a conference... seemed
like that little green robot was on everything for a while. I feel like they
worked on the brand just enough and then, when their experiment was sucessful,
they decided to go ahead and bring the product into the fold. If Android had
failed, it would be easy to forget (for the general public, not for devs or
techies) that it was even part of Google.
------
runjake
As far as I knew, this was the goal of the Open Handset Alliance -- build a
technology called Android that other members could use in the development of
their own technologies.
Android was always supposed to sit in the background -- somewhat similarly to
how WebKit works. It's not "WebKit", it's Chrome, Safari, Opera Browser, etc
etc.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but "Android" is a brand that strikes me
as not appealing to the masses.
------
damian2000
Yeah, this article makes sense. It seems like the first 'phase' of Android
marketing was all about getting phone companies to support it and to achieve
market dominance. They've achieved that, and can now focus on making Google
phones/tablets a premium brand.
------
ericcholis
The "man on the street" test says the same, many people call their Android
phones "Droid" regardless of manufacturer. "Droid" has become generic and
synonymous with the hardware, not the platform. With that being said, can you
blame them? Non-tech folk might love their Android phone, but I doubt that
they care about the platform.
~~~
justincormack
Only in the US. The "Droid" name never launched globally, for licensing
reasons.
------
icoder
I think two things are getting mixed up here: 1) what Google does/wants
(apparently, they don't want it anymore, which is the interesting part of the
article) and 2) what the people perceive (Android vs iPhone). The article
itself states it at the end, who knows iOS? Mostly geeks, I agree. But who
knows Android? Everyone and their mom. Google is not simply going to null
this, and I don't think they should either, but that is another story.
~~~
blowski
Do you have stats to back that up? Recent surveys say that people are more
likely to describe their phone as 'Samsung' than Android.
[http://news.techeye.net/mobile/samsung-galaxy-brand-
trumps-a...](http://news.techeye.net/mobile/samsung-galaxy-brand-trumps-
android-in-popularity-contest)
Anecdotally, I would agree that the kind of people who know what Android is
are the kind of people that know what iOS is - i.e. gadget-lovers.
~~~
PuercoPop
That the most salient feature used to describe their phone is Samsung, does
not imply in any way that they are unaware that it is an android.
As anecdotal evidence, every non geek that I know, knows about android.
------
jusben1369
Perhaps Google saw companies like Amazon launch an "Android Tablet" and become
players overnight riding on the coat tails of all that hard work Google did
around that brand. Imagine if you could somehow launch an 'iOS tablet" or
"Smart phone" and ride those coat tails? I _think_ that's the biggest problem
with continuing to invest time and energy improving the Android brand vs your
own.
------
treskot
And that (in ref to the last few paragraphs of the article) might turn out to
be a good thing. Google knows what it is upto. Unless it really wants Android
to be recognized as Galaxy then God save Android.
So is 'open source' the problem here? -- "sell an "Android phone" makes you a
cheap commodity play. Nobody wants that, they all want to be cool and
different. Leave Android to the Chinese knock-offs."
~~~
Anechoic
_Unless it really wants Android to be recognized as Galaxy then God save
Android._
A few weeks ago I heard a CNN reporter refer to the "iPad and Galaxy
ecosystems." I wonder if it's already too late.
~~~
blowski
There's also the Amazon App Store for Android. People I know with Kindle Fires
just talking about 'downloading apps from Amazon'. I don't think they know
what Android is.
------
rogerbinns
It is interesting to look at the selection of phones available at Walmart
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/bgdvobh>
Android is only mentioned some of time even for Android phones, and it is
always out of date versions (usually the 18+ month old 2.3 versions). Even the
feature phones are dressed up to look like they are smartphones (eg similar
launcher layout). Asymco talk about this in more detail in this episode
<http://5by5.tv/criticalpath/69> and posting
<http://www.asymco.com/2013/01/03/the-last-featurephone/>
What can be deduced is that some people just use their phones for calls and
texting, and that those phones are increasingly running old Android versions.
------
stinky613
If Lucas hadn't had the (absurd?) trademark on "droid" I think "Droid OS"
would have been easier to market. Though, even then, there were other issues.
The move to drop "Android" makes sense. "Google" is a name that people
generally trust (despite the efforts of MS's petty 'Scroogled' campaign).
"Android", on the other hand, has come to represent a disjointed
conglomeration of smartphones. The OS versions are inconsistent between phones
and have names that give no indication of chronology. Reach into a bag of
current Android phones and pull out two at random--you have no idea what to
expect. Certainly Microsoft deliberately avoided this specific pitfall in
their design of Windows Phone 8.
Motorola jumping early into the fray with "Droid" phones running "Android"
likely added confusion.
~~~
rz2k
Why was the Scroogled campaign petty?
~~~
stinky613
Fair question; I guess petty was the wrong word. Also, after youtubing
'scroogled' to make sure what I'm about to say is accurate I found there are
other scroogled ads that don't irk me as much.
The ad I've seen the most criticizes gmail. The guy says "these ads just
showed up" and the woman says "ACTUALLY,...", and, personally, when someone
corrects a person by starting out with that heavily emphasized "ACTUALLY..."
it sounds really smug.
------
PaulHoule
It's better than Microsoft, which still doesn't have a name for Metro or
whatever it is that is in Windows 8 that nobody uses.
------
keyboardP
Unlike MS and Apple's services, Google doesn't need Android to be a brand. I
think it was quite clear from the beginning that their aim isn't to ship
devices for the sake of spreading Android rather than to ship devices for the
sake of spreading their online services and increasing ad revenue streams. I
don't think this whole premise that the Android brand is being diluted/removed
is anything new nor surprising.
------
7952
This trend is also mirrored in the "Google Play" branding. The Google app and
data syncing should be a huge selling point for the ecosystem in general.
------
mtgx
I think Google messed up badly early on by not putting marketing muscle behind
the Android brand, which was also a side effect of how they treated Android
itself.
They let Android be turned into whatever others wanted it to be, and maybe
they promoted the Android brand, maybe they didn't. And if they did, they
tried to "own" it. But mostly they've tried to mention it as little as
possible, while promoting their own stuff.
Google _should've never let this happen_. They should've treated it the same
way they treat the Chromebooks. Nothing gets changed in ChromeOS unless Google
says so. And everything works the same across Chromebooks. All upgrades come
from Google for all Chromebooks, and every 6 weeks. It's tight and it's clean.
And they get to promote the brand.
But Android is the opposite of that. Google has no control over 99% of the
Android devices when it comes to upgrades. This is terrible for users,
terrible for developers, and terrible for the security of these devices,
whenever there's some big security exploit. Okay, Google can still uninstall
apps from your phone in case something like that happens, but they can't
really fix the issue usually.
Android should've been run like Chrome and ChromeOS from the very beginning.
They should've had the "main brand" (like Chrome), and then they should've had
the "open source brand" (like Chromium). Google only ever promotes the Chrome
brand, and now that's what OEM's and customers want. They want Chrome. They
don't want Chromium.
They missed that opportunity with Android. Android should've been the main
bran that Google owns, gets to modify, and updates. If they would've done that
from the beginning, then OEM's and customers would've also wanted the
unaltered Google-owned Android, rather than the "heavily-customized open
source brand" that Android has turned into, and is the main choice for
virtually every OEM. So the Android world is like a bizarro world where
"Chromium" would be what most OEM's and customer want, not Google's own
Chrome.
But there is still time to fix that - by expanding the "Chromebook-tight"
Nexus program. Get Nexus become to Android what Chrome is to Chromium. And
then try to make 99% of OEM's and customers to prefer the Nexus over the
heavily-customized open source "Android". This will probably take 5 years or
longer now, but I think it can be done. Even if half of the market is "Nexus
devices" 5 years from now, I think it will be worth it.
Of course it would've been much easier to do this from day one, since now they
have to fight and uphill battle, and "unconvince" OEM's that they want to use
the "Nexus OS"/stock Android, not their own customized stuff. But slowly, they
can convince customers to buy those, and in time the OEM's as well, if that's
what the people want.
So if they are indeed applying this strategy, then that's good. I've noticed
they are promoting the Nexus devices lately. Now they just need to get more
OEM's on board (not just one at a time). That would give people more choices
through out the year for Nexus devices. Some may like the Nexus, but if they
want to buy a new phone 4 months later, they might just get the latest Samsung
or HTC device, because they'd still prefer a newer phone.
This also needs to happen for low-end devices. I want to be able to buy my mom
a very cheap Nexus phone. I'm thinking $100-$200 range here. It can be done
with Cortex A7, a decent 720p capable GPU, and a 800x480 resolution display.
It should be good enough performance wise, but Google should still make sure
these devices aren't very buggy or something. And they should handle the
updates for them.
A good way to start pushing more "Nexus" devices in the market is by getting
Motorola to use only stock Android. I think they'd be really stupid if they
aren't doing this. Their customers _want_ them to do it. _Screw_ the other
OEM's if they get upset about it. They're free to join the Nexus program (and
they should be), and use stock Android, too. They'll come around if Motorola
shows there's a market for that. So Google needs to stop fooling around, and
start being serious taking back control of Android with the Nexus OS/program.
~~~
untog
You're ignoring the other half of this equation- the device manufacturers. The
reason they adopted Android so heavily was _because_ it was a more open system
that let them customise it and make it their own. If Google ruled it with an
iron fist people would have been far less interested in adopting it.
As for customers wanting Nexus phones- I'm not convinced they do. A core of
customers do, of course (and I am one of them), but the vast majority are
happy with their Samsung Galaxies and their HTC Ones. They don't care about
'stock'. If Motorola use stock Android I think they'll demonstrate that users
_don't_ want it (or, don't active prefer it), as the Galaxy S4 dominates the
market.
~~~
mtgx
I get that, but if Google would've done a better job of promoting Android, I
think they could've had more control over it in the end. But it's almost like
Google _didn't want_ control over Android.
As for upgrades, I don't think it would've been that hard to get the Open
Handset Alliance to agree to keep things relatively compatible with each
other, and let them handle the upgrades, and save them that cost. I just think
Google didn't want to do that at the time, maybe because they thought it was
too much work, and they didn't think Android would get that successful or
something.
They could've set a clear set of standards, and they could've built a power
theming engine to allow manufacturers to do some relative customization of the
devices so they look different enough, if they really wanted to go that route,
while still making it easy for them to upgrade them.
~~~
jahmed
Google undercut Apple. Google couldn't let Apple take all of mobile because
that's where computing is going. No one was even close to where Apple was then
and its taken android years to catch up. Thats the first reason.
Second, Google is a team player. The web is more profitable for everyone when
things are open and free. Everyone is better off with a smaller slice of a
bigger pie. Android has made a lot of people a lot of money.
------
mattmaroon
Having two brands does not necessarily confuse consumers. People understand
that Dell makes Windows PCs. They'll understand that Samsung makes Android
smart phones.
Apple itself has numerous brands. Apple and Mac OS, running on a Macbook Air
or Macbook Pro. That's no more confusing than anyone can handle.
------
paragonred
I'm not sure it is as deliberate as is being suggested. I think renaming the
store allows it to potentially function for all types of devices, not just
android devices.
Also, if you look at the play store on a device or the web, you generally see
the android character all over it.
------
lnanek2
What's scary is that people don't go into a store and buy Android. They buy
Droid or Evo or Galaxy or HTC One or Razor, etc.. What's to keep Galaxy from
staying with Android then? If they lost 10% market for going their own way,
but captured the full profit of replacing Google Play entirely with Samsung
Apps store, it may still be a good business decision for them.
You can already see this happening a little because Samsung requires using
their ad library, their in app purchase library, not mentioning Google Play at
all in descriptions or for pro versions, etc. to publish on Samsung Apps. The
store isn't as good as Google Play, but it sure is more profitable for Samsung
than Google Play.
------
qompiler
There is a penguin in that Android suit, I don't think it really cares. :o)
~~~
daliusd
And it is not alone in there. Antelope that cares is in there.
~~~
wtracy
Is that a reference that I'm not familiar with?
~~~
daliusd
Gnu is antelope.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy>
------
pedalpete
The comparison I'm thinking is that google is trying to be more Intel than
Microsoft.
Intel did the whole 'intel inside' thing, and people recognized the brand,
without really understanding what it was for or caring, they just knew that is
what they wanted.
People thought they understood what Microsoft did (and maybe they do), but I
think intel was just this thing you absolutely had to have. Nobody could
compete with it, because they'd need to explain what it does, and that would
likely put people to sleep and they wouldn't understand anyway.
------
venomsnake
Maybe we are beyond the point where OS can be considered sexy anymore. While
there will always be insane amounts of work to be done on them and deliver
improvements until we see some brand new device interaction paradigm delivered
- OSs will be boring, (relatively) stable and getting job done.
So - there are few reasons to push the OS as a brand to retail consumers.
Pitch hard to developers, but for consumers for which the os is app store +
launcher - it won't help you increase sales much.
~~~
macspoofing
Actually it's all about the OS. The apps work everywhere, and the hardware is
largely the same.
------
saurik
> Who knows the word iOS? Nobody (oh, you do, but you are a geek).
I run into this problem constantly, as I want to refer to "devices that run
iOS", but I know that that is a reference that a large number of people won't
understand. I often find myself saying "iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch", which
always feels exceedingly awkward. Does anyone know of a better way for me to
do this? Am I simply doomed to permanently listing off, individually, all of
these products? ;P
~~~
unavoidable
"iDevice" seems to be a useful word I hear a lot these days.
------
stevenameyer
Android as a brand is becoming less emphasized because it is meaning less and
less as time goes on. There are so many different android devices out there
that deliver vastly different experiences that really the only thing that
Android means to most people is they have access to Android apps. So since the
term is so broad that for classification it is basically useless we need to
turn to different terms to be able to describe a product.
------
bdcravens
The first time I realized this was the direction things were going was when
the Fire was released. On Amazon's page, I saw only one mention of "Android",
and that was referring to the "Amazon App Store for Android". The current page
only has one other reference (referring to the Amazon app for movies, in a
list of other OS's where it's compatible). The focus in both cases being on
Amazon, _not_ Android.
------
emmelaich
Feels right to me; I've bought a few Android devices and have only liked the
Google ones. Non-Google Android phones often have what I would call malware
installed by the manufacturer or the communications provider.
e.g. a flashlight app on Huawei G600 which has excessive permissions including
reading contacts _and_ starts on boot.
------
ActVen
Searches for "android" started trending down in January 2012.
[http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=android%2C%20nexus...](http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=android%2C%20nexus&geo=US&date=1%2F2008%2061m&cmpt=q)
------
glogla
It's not all that suprising. Ubuntu is doing the same with Linux brand -- they
hide what the system actually is, perhaps in fear that people might recognize
that there are other distributions and run off, or because Linux has bad
publicity as geeky stuff.
~~~
potatolicious
> _"or because Linux has bad publicity as geeky stuff"_
No, more like Linux has bad publicity as obtuse and difficult - which it very
often is with many other distros. Ubuntu is (intended to be) Linux that "just
works".
I don't think Canonical is afraid of "oh no Linux, nerds!", they're more
likely afraid of "oh no Linux, like [insert other distro where you spend more
time tweaking configs and compiling your kernel than using it]!"
------
dottrap
_However, having two brands confuses consumers._
Doesn't hold true. "Microsoft" had no problems with users being confused by
"Windows". People went out of their way to make sure to buy PCs installed with
Windows from Dell, HP, etc.
~~~
damian2000
The major difference is that Windows wasn't free and in fact was expensive for
manufacturers, as is Windows Phone.
~~~
corresation
_as is Windows Phone_
From a pure financial basis I would wager good money that Android is more
expensive for manufacturers than Windows Phone is, _not even including the
Microsoft patent tax_ (where it most certainly is more expensive for any
vendor who signed on), in the same way that Linux was actually more expensive
for Dell to put on a laptop than a full copy of Windows was.
When Samsung or Motorola or HTC or LG decide to go with Android they commit
themselves to significant software engineering expenses. Those who try to
under-fund those activities suffer in the market (Motorola and Sony being two
prime examples).
Windows Phone, in contrast, is built to put the vast majority of the software
engineering costs on Microsoft's side, and the activities required by a
hardware vendor are dramatically reduced.
I only mention this because there's a recurring, very detached from reality
theme that vendors choose Android because it is "free" (excluding the
possibility that vendors have to license the non-ASOP Google apps and
services). That might be true for the cheapest of the cheap devices, but it is
completely untrue for the top tier makers.
~~~
vetinari
Depends.
The price for moving all the porting effort to Microsoft is inflexibility. For
example, WP7 supported only Qualcomm SoC and nothing else. Meanwhile, in the
Android world, the vendors (mostly SoC vendors) had to do engineering, but
they could use Exynos or Tegra or any other SoC they wanted.
Another significant part of the engineering is customization. It is not that
we, the geeks, want the manufacturers to customize their Android builds (see
the popularity of the Nexus and AOSP builds for other phones). But they have a
choice and they chose to do it. In the Windows world, they don't have such a
choice.
So it is not a black/white. It is a set of compromises and constrains on a
curve. It is up to a vendor to pick the optimal point, after weighting costs
and benefits.
------
dinkumthinkum
I disagree, regular people do know "Android." Many people that are not "geeks"
know that phones are basically iPhone vs Android (they may or may not think of
"iOS" but Android is out there).
------
shmerl
I never liked the brand name. These days when people mention Android, you
don't expect them to talk about robotics, but rather about Google's OS which
has nothing to do with androids.
------
_quasimodo
They might become the Microsoft of the mobile market.
You buy a PC (as opposed to a Mac) -> It runs Windows
You buy a phone (as opposed to an iPhone)-> It runs Android
I hope that doesn't happen, though.
------
CaRDiaK
Having been in bed with it since day 1... it will always be Android to me :)
------
cek
I wrote a similar piece predicting this would happen last March.
[http://ceklog.kindel.com/2012/03/31/google-will-abandon-
andr...](http://ceklog.kindel.com/2012/03/31/google-will-abandon-android/)
------
donnfelker
Link bait 101.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Prolog Based Executable English - adriandwalker
Prolog = Logic + different Control for each app<p>Executable English -- Logic + Built in control
https://www.executable-english.com
======
adriandwalker
* write data apps in _open_ English * specify apps without procedural programming * automatically generate and run complex SQL * Human level English explanations of results Live online at [https://www.executable-english.com](https://www.executable-english.com)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why upgrading your Linux Kernel will make your customers much happier - sams99
http://samsaffron.com/archive/2012/03/01/why-upgrading-your-linux-kernel-will-make-your-customers-much-happier
======
ChuckMcM
TL;DR version - another new guy discovers TCP slow start, and not doing it,
wow major speedup! Now, imagine the whole Internet doing that, whoops.
I once peevishly pointed out that if you weren't required to stop at stop
signs your commute would go faster, but if _nobody_ was required to stop at
stop signs it would be slower because every other intersection would have an
accident blocking the way.
This is also very much true of TCP congestion control algorithms. And while a
few people not using them can get away with it, everyone not using them and
you will find your network latency goes from a median with a low standard
deviation, to a slightly lower median with a HUGE standard deviation.
One of the things that slow start does is it spreads the change in median
latency over a longer period of time. You can think of this intuitively where
each new connection starts slow and then gradually gets faster, until it is as
fast as it can be, and as more people start connections they start slow and
get faster, while the current connections get slightly slower to accomodate
the new traffic. The result is a non-chaotic adjustment of the network flow.
The converse is that everyone starts out going as fast as they can, they not
only overwhelm the node the node ends up getting massively congested for a
moment trying to sort things out. And of course IP doesn't care if you lose a
fragment, you'll eventually resend it. So now during this massive congestion
the re-transmits are causing more congestion. You get lots of pushback and
finally everyone is back to a level where the network is doing ok with it and
wham! a new connection opens up and everyone gets hosed again and backs off
again, and then ramps up again.
Moral of the story, if only _you_ don't do slow start you can be fast, if
_everyone_ doesn't start slowly, the network latency gets really unpredictable
and poor.
~~~
barrkel
I object to your metaphor; stop signs do slow down traffic. If every 4-way
stop sign junction had a roundabout (either full-sized or mini, depending on
available space), traffic wouldn't need to stop very often, overall throughput
would be much higher, and accidents would probably be even less.
4-way stop sign junctions were probably the most asinine, time-wasting, fuel-
wasting road control I found when I drove in the US.
~~~
vacri
Discussing this with a US friend, I have come to the conclusion that for
single-lane roads, a roundabout is superior to a 4-way stop as you only have
to watch one direction for traffic.
Once you get to multiple lanes, the answer is simple: both roundabouts and
4-way stops are inferior...
~~~
khafra
Yes, cloverleafs are necessary for >1 lane per direction.
~~~
Nick_C
Nah, we have plenty of 2 lane roundabouts here in Australia, and I'm sure the
UK does too. It's really a matter of what you're used to. They don't seem to
get used much in the US from what I see.
------
lloeki
This article gives the IW status on Windows and Linux. What is the status on
other systems (e.g Mac OS X, FreeBSD, Solaris...) ?
Does it matter only server side, or do clients benefit of having this window
increased too?
Also, a comment of the article mentions this:
Why are you talking about upgrading the kernel, when you can simply do:
ip route change default via MYGATEWAY dev MYDEVICE initcwnd 10
which would be similar to the netsh tunable on Windows. So upgrading the
kernel is only needed to have it set to 10 _by default_.
EDIT:
It seems Mac OS X is using either NewReno or LEDBAT instead of the mentioned
CUBIC or Vegas. Look for _tcp_ledbat_cwnd_init_ in [1] which looks quite
simple, or _tcp_newreno_cwnd_init_or_reset_ in [0] which looks a bit more
involved:
/* Calculate initial cwnd according to RFC3390,
* - On a standard link, this will result in a higher cwnd
* and improve initial transfer rate.
* - Keep the old ss_fltsz sysctl for ABI compabitility issues.
* but it will be overriden if tcp_do_rfc3390 sysctl is set.
*/
PS: xnu-1699.24.23 is Lion 10.7.3
[0]
[http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.23/bsd/ne...](http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.23/bsd/netinet/tcp_newreno.c)
[1]
[http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.23/bsd/ne...](http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.23/bsd/netinet/tcp_ledbat.c)
~~~
The_Fox
The initcwnd change is helpful on any host that has more than 2 segments worth
of data ready to send at the beginning of the connection. So a client that
wants to send lots of data would benefit from the change.
For 99% of web browsing, the client's request fits in one or two segments and
so would not benefit from the change.
------
sgt
In OS X all you need to do is set a sysctl setting. No need for even a
restart. Check out net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize (set it to 10) if you are
interested.
------
snissn
If upgrading my Linux Kernel will solve all of my problems, why is the
experimental comparison between a Linux box and a windows box? Just saying..
~~~
sams99
mainly cause I did not have a chance to set up an old Linux VM. The number
hold though, the initial congestion window is 2-3 on the 2 line kernels.
~~~
snissn
I don't disagree, but it makes it an apples an oranges comparison. It
introduces the variables of how linux vs windows deals with TCP (not
withstanding that linux 2.x vs 3. might have some internal ipv4 changes, but
youre recommendation is to upgrade anyway, so that's fine) but also changes in
the webserver.. It seems like the changes are hard coded into the compiled
kernel, so there's no way to simply change configuration flags?
That said, thanks for the post, and I'll definitely be tcpdumping in the
upcoming week and reading some more about slowstart!
Maybe testing with net.ipv4.tcp_slow_start_after_idle 0 vs 1 would make a
cleaner comparison?
~~~
sams99
I totally agree with the concern, but the only way for a clean comparison here
would be for me to spin up a new VM. I observe the exact same patterns as I
get from the windows VM on our Linux 2.x prod box so assume they are the same.
There were a slew of TCP changes leading up to the 3 branch which included
changing the default congestion control algorithm to cubic.
slow start after idle does not really play part here. The test is for a
clean/new connection.
I am no expert but it is possible I could lower my IW on my 3.2 box to 3 to
demonstrate the same pattern, however that too is not a clean comparison.
If my sys admins push me I may set up another VM to demonstrate this.
~~~
snissn
Thanks again for your blog post and comments in this thread! Experiments where
you already are really confident about the conclusions are pretty silly, but I
feel like despite that being skeptical in general to posts on the internet has
value. I haven't investigated yet, but if I do investigate clear benefits of
slow start and can make a corroborating case, i'll be happy to correspond and
write it up in a blog post.. No promises though :)
------
yorhel
Not really a solution for the short term, but CCNx[1] looks like it'd solve a
lot of problems that TCP currently has for both large file transfers and short
web browsing. 1\. <http://www.ccnx.org/>
~~~
obtu
That site is terribly vague, what are the specific problems and how does CCNx
address them?
~~~
yorhel
It would indeed be nice if the project had a proper introductionary page or
something. Either way, the paper "Networking Named Content" is pretty much the
best introduction you can get, and a very interesting read at the same time.
Googling gave me a PDF at the following URL:
[http://conferences.sigcomm.org/co-
next/2009/papers/Jacobson....](http://conferences.sigcomm.org/co-
next/2009/papers/Jacobson.pdf)
------
pkh80
I'm sure there is a chance I am missing some bits here, but I setup a 3.0.18 /
Ubuntu 11.10 / Apache 2.2 server and to compare against 2.6.39 Apache 2.2
server and in all tests they are basically identical.
~~~
sams99
yeah ... the change was introduced in 2.6.39 ... but its a pretty rare kernel
to have afaik, not even in debian backports anymore
------
ilaksh
What versions of Ubuntu have this larger (faster) setting?
~~~
mixmastamyk
Looks like Oneiric and Precise have > 3.0 kernels.
~~~
jcastro
And the Oneiric kernel is backported to 10.04LTS:
Installing "linux-image-generic-lts-backport-oneiric" outta do it.
------
alpb
I wonder if Apple has implemented this in OS X kernel.
~~~
Flow
sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize=10
~~~
alpb
Wow it changed from 1 to 10. Should I put that to boot script or what do you
recommend?
------
Drbble
Linkbait title. Editors, please fix.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I/O multiplexing using epoll and kqueue system calls - mmastrac
http://austingwalters.com/io-multiplexing/
======
gopalv
Ignoring POSIX has its own pains.
The only way to maintain sanity is to use an abstraction like libev (or
libevent) - when you find a bug, report it upstream and roll your own builds
till it gets into CentOS.
Like the memcached proxy (Moxi) used a patched libevent to work fast (though
the main server was rewritten in Golang - zBase).
~~~
IgorPartola
Then again, when there is an ambiguity in POSIX, it gets even worse. For
example, file locking is just messed up. Also, the only way to get something
standardized seems to be to create it and make it popular first.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An analysis of the airfare prediction app Hopper - carlmungz
https://www.underglass.io/read/Hopper
======
snowwrestler
I've used Hopper for a while, including booking tickets through the app when
the price was advantageous.
A memorable failure was when I was trying to book travel to Charleston, SC for
the eclipse last year. Ticket prices were very high, and Hopper kept telling
me to hold out, they would soon drop. They never did, of course--and I didn't
really expect them to.
It was a good illustration of the shortcomings of machine learning. If a
situation is not in the training data, the system is clueless. Hopper had no
idea there was a rare external factor distorting the market, and apparently
there was no way to tell it.
------
nikanj
Cheap fare hacks are a game of walls and ladders. If a hack is really good, it
spreads wide and fast, and airlines block it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Censorship On Hacker News - patdryburgh
http://patdryburgh.com/blog/censorship-on-hacker-news/
======
freejack
I can see why the original headline might have been edited for clarity - the
mental leap from "porno site" to "productivity porn" is non-obvious.
I'd be more inclined to chalk this one up to miscommunication (the bad
headline) and good intentions (editing the headline for clarity) than I would
to call this outright censorship.
~~~
patdryburgh
“I can see why the original headline might have been edited for clarity - the
mental leap from "porno site" to "productivity porn" is non-obvious.”
Perhaps it is non-obvious reading only the title, but the article did go on to
clarify what the intent of using the word "porno" was.
My problem with it is that editing the title in this manner sets up an
expectation for the reader, and could cause the reader to become upset when
they see the actual title has the word "porno" in it. As I said, the article
clarifies what I mean, but if someone is sensitive to the use of that type of
language, then they may feel they have been duped into looking at content they
wouldn't otherwise look at.
As I pointed out in the article, this doesn't appear to be a common
experience. I couldn't find anyone else online complaining about Hacker News
censoring their content. But, I wanted to make clear what my intentions were,
and hopefully open up a discussion that could possibly lead to needed clarity
on exactly what the rules of this community are.
------
patdryburgh
I received a great email from Andrew de Andrade, a fellow Hacker News reader,
on why what I perceived to be censorship wasn't, and how it was my fault as
the link submitter for not providing a title that provided better utility to
the community.
Please, accept my sincerest apologies for my misunderstanding and for jumping
to conclusions. This article was not written out of malice towards Hacker
News, but rather as an attempt to bring clarity to what is and isn't accepted
in this community.
I've added a note on the post apologizing for offending anyone, and inviting
anyone who would like to discuss the issue further to reach me via email
(hello [at] patdryburgh.com)
Thanks for your patience and understanding.
Pat
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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