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Hack allows linux users to play OnLive games - riledhel
http://onliveinformer.com/2011/09/04/community-hack-allows-linuxwine-users-to-experience-onlive/
======
Karunamon
The slashdotters already got to this and eviscerated it in typical
"Proprietary anything is automatically bad" fashion.
I for one think this is awesome. You can play some cool things with online for
cheap if your system can't handle the latest and greatest.
~~~
wccrawford
I think it's a great idea, too, except for 2 things:
1) If you buy the game, you pay the same price as getting it at a store, but
with no recourse if the company goes under.
2) The video is pretty bad. It's 720p with a lot of lossy compression. I tried
it for one of the Lego games (which I'm quite familiar with on my consoles)
and it felt really fuzzy and indistinct. It wasn't a very pleasant experience.
I could forgive both of them if the games were cheaper, but they aren't. (And
can't be, really, since the game publishers aren't going to give them a
break... At least, not until they realize their DRM is unhackable.)
~~~
motdiem
Personally I've found two things great about onlive :
1/ It's an alternative to downloading demo - 30mn is enough to see if I like a
game, and saves me the hassle of downloading, installing/uninstalling etc - I
don't understand why every new game demo is distributed this way now
2/ Their $4 for a week-end rental - for a lot of games, this is enough for me
to play and get out of
Video quality is good for playing on a laptop - not on a gaming desktop.
Note though that many of the games on onlive are very aggressively discounted
on steam at every steam sale - so I usually end up buying them from steam
instead.
~~~
teamonkey
> Note though that many of the games on onlive are very aggressively
> discounted on steam at every steam sale - so I usually end up buying them
> from steam instead.
They're doing pretty well at matching Steam. For example, there was a Labor
Day 75%-off sale on OnLive this weekend. Also in another promotion they were
offering Batman Arkham Asylum for $0.99.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Best JavaScript quiz I have created so far - tillda
http://pastebin.com/U65e8vG2
======
tillda
Hint: it still doesn't mean the same in Strict Mode though it behaves slightly
different.
------
iamyohann
Nice :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Too little to offer for bootstrapped start-up? - c52Andy
We're a <i>super</i> early bootstrapped start-up with 2 founders (husband and wife) trying to build a community online marketplace. We're also very new to HN and loving the lost hours of reading.<p>We live on Maui and while we're cash poor we're "location rich" and started thinking we have the perfect 'incubator' to work on the project. Our daughter left for college and we converted her room into a guest room. Our son lives in the 'ohana' (in-law) downstairs where my office is along with kitchenette and bathroom.<p>We work at home and suddenly thought... "aha! what if we offer to move a pair of talented hackers into the ohana to work with us until launching an MVP and/or acquiring seed capital?"
(airfare, room, meals, small per-diem and equity in the company)<p>The question is, does an offer like this seem totally slave-labor lame and offensive, or does it sound like a unique opportunity to work on a project that we plan to take national and then global from a groovy location? We think the latter, but then we live here, so we wake up on Maui every day regardless.<p>Frustrated by a lack of skills (I'm a designer and wife is a writer; we've both 'dabbled' in tech for years), we're just trying to find unique ways to solve our lack-o-hack problem.<p>Aloha for your replies, we're grown-ups so we can take a flame or two :)
======
c52Andy
After posting this last night, I've been positively (literally) overwhelmed by
the feedback both on and off HN. Discretion on some 'harsher' emails
definitely appreciated :)
I wanted to revisit and expand on the original topic. I'd posted literally to
ask the question hypothetically (no ulterior) of whether the scenario sounded
equitable - not to actually try and source talent or 'fish.' That's one reason
I was being vague on description... didn't see the need to go into it.
I now see the error of my ways. This is a community for hackers and while we
are "idea people" on one level (not hackers), we're not just that... we're
also (perhaps) misguided enthusiastic idiots who've also grown a couple
profitable businesses along the way... "lifehackers" if you will (problem:
earn money, feed family. solution: whatever it takes).
Since there's been a recurring "what's it about" thread I'll expand on this.
Firstly, we have someone on board to start protoyping based on my designs; he
plans to do so in Rails using an existing framework he's built. He's not in
our basement. We're planning to pay him for that service, and are working with
him on another job (not the start-up). In other words the post wasn't a
'hacker wanted' plea, but more of a "would it seem out of line" as we consider
the prospects of how we could move from payment toward a push (on limited
cash) to get something released in exchange for some kind of equity. A
potential perk to building a team on limited resources.
One reason we need to consider it is that this guy, like every talented hacker
on this board, has other irons in the fire and a career of his own to manage.
So start-up may not be his bag, baby.
Who's bag might it be? Tough to say, but a lot of the feedback has been 'get
personal already'. So, my name is Andy Johnson, and my wife is Michelle Blaine
and we have a start-up company called Chef 52, Inc. Here's a bit about it from
the late YC application we submitted if you're interested. It ought to give
you the basic overview of the business, name our _potential_ partners
(disclaimer: nothing signed in blood yet) and give you a view of both our
living room, and 'us' as people.
[http://chef52.posterous.com/chef-52-described-for-
ycombinato...](http://chef52.posterous.com/chef-52-described-for-ycombinator)
Don't let the bad hair and casual dress fool you. We bring a lot more to the
table than an idea. We have 8 kids (yes, 8) that are alive, healthy and
prospering in this world. Food was a critical component to that equation, and
we're both passionate 'foodies'. Michelle is a stellar cook and has spent
years working in the food industry; initially to support her habit spending
years working in the film/TV industry - which she did so very successfully.
She's also worked in music licensing and managed to build real value and
equity for clients. She's a shrewd business woman, and a loving mother (more
of the latter seen on video).
I was a touring musician 'in a past life' and have been passionate about food
and cooking since I was a teenager. First because my Dad was an excellent cook
so I grew up thinking a man's place WAS in the kitchen. Then in my early 20s
as a necessity because my health went down the tubes... rock'n'roll lifestyle
perhaps or luck of the draw. But either way, I used food and nutrition as the
singular means to regain my health and well-being. Successfully! It was a
total trip and changed my lifestyle forever. As a result I've been a
vege/pescetarian coming up on about 19 years now.
About 11 years ago, having taught myself several 'creative' software apps and
blagged my way into some print-production gigs, I took a job at one of the
largest branding agencies in the world, Landor Associates. I spent 4 years
forming the foundation to become an expert in digital production as it
pertains to brand... This mostly meant font management and consultation,
building logo suites for global brands based on initial designs, extending
design into brand guidelines and stationery/presentation 'packages' including
print mechanicals and digital equivalents (Word/PPT templates), creating
interactive PDFs, and very rarely getting to do a little hand coding on HTML
'comps' for clients.
Since leaving Landor I've managed a freelance career as a designer/producer,
continued to tour as a musician, wrote a few short film scores, had another
baby, moved our family back to Maui (we've been in/out of the islands all our
lives), skirted death in a motorcycle accident (and 'mostly' walked away), and
hacked together a number of websites with Michelle as a passionate pursuit -
sometimes for money... maybe even more than we should've been paid (see
"shrewd business woman").
Since leaving film/TV and music licensing, Michelle has continued to raise our
family, helped me grow my freelance business into what has become Johnson
Beesley (we're a branding agency compiled of free-agents working
cooperatively), built a mom-blog following and become a writer for food-buzz
(which incidentally came on the heels of her deciding to write about food
exclusively). She's also developed a modest following on twitter (@mControl);
far more than I have (@johnsonbeesley).
We're friendly, astute, and staunchly creative people. We follow our hearts
wherever they take us and let our brains catch up. We love people that
surprise us with their kindness and intelligence and often loathe people that
fail to surprise us by reaffirming our occasional desire to join what Bill
Hicks coined as the "people who hate people club."
Our project, Chef 52, aims to be a culmination of our collective life
experience. It represents something we know a lot about - people, friends,
family, food, health and self employment.
The latter two are critical to our vision. We believe there's a behavioral
change opportunity in this idea that would help people get 'out of the drive
thru and back to the table.' We've watched childhood and adult obesity,
diabetes, heart disease and all sorts of other nutritional fails claim
people's lives. Some who were loved ones. So, we now have an idea that if
effectively produced could put a dent in our declining eating habits as a
culture (yes, we're doing market research on that too). The self-employment
part is obvious. We've been 'without boss' and also location-independent as a
result for close to 8 years now. We appreciate the freedom while never
forgetting that we've actually been at that "oh crap we've got $7 to our name"
point - with kids to feed, clothe and house. But we choose that lifestyle
because we believe it's the best path in this single life we have.
<segue> "Single life we have" - we're not religious people, but to call us
'spiritually motivated' would be fair. Not 'crunchy' but a bit hard around the
edges. You could call me an enthusiastic aethiest and I'd say that's pretty
close to accurate. </segue>
So, that's us in a nutshell, and I felt like it was fair to post this given
the personal feedback and time people have taken to express an interest in
what started as hypothesis.
Now for some hacker comedy entertainment... Here's a collection of sites that
Michelle and I have designed and/or built over the past several years... no
'web applications' but you'll get a sense of both our strengths and
shortcomings in this domain. We're not clueless - but certainly not as
thorough or knowledgeable as the people we'd like to help us execute the
platform to deliver our vision and business:
www.johnsonbeesley.com (WP, not updated in ages) www.halblaine.com (WP with
Thesis) www.mommysalad.com (WP with Thesis) www.everkaeo.com (WP with Thesis)
www.laurapickering.com (flash, so no iPad ;) www.9fishsurf.com (flash)
We cobbled together a few sites in Joomla for a while around 2007 - but I
think they've all gone the way of expired domains. It's safe to say they were
crap (more so than what you may think of the above) but were a learning
adventure nonetheless.
Thanks for reading, and if any of this makes you think "damn, I might want to
work with these people" you can drop a line at ajohnson at johnsonbeesley and
mblaine at johnsonbeesley.
Aloha~
------
pnathan
Personally, I would feel weird living in the same house with my boss. I would
also want to have a real legal eagle go over the equity agreements, because
I'm a paranoid git about stuff. =)
However, it doesn't seem like slave labor. It does seem like a situation which
could turn sour from interpersonal relations. I would advise care in selecting
hackers, ideally meeting them in person first.
~~~
c52Andy
Good point! We're early AirBnB adopters so we've had our fair share of awkward
experiences - and you're right, the 'fermentation factor' is potentially high;
but at least space is somewhat separated (downstairs/upstairs). Skype can be
decent, but one never knows. Same feeling re. legal eagle - we're crucial on
bullet-proof arrangements prior to any execution.
~~~
itmag
What are your house rules regarding bringing over friends, playing guitar,
staying up late, fapping, etc? :)
------
djb_hackernews
Heres my take. No way.
Well, 23 year old me says sweet, older me says no way. But at 23 I wasn't near
equipped to build a product from scratch.
What you really need is a CTO that gets founder equity. But you already have a
CTO and it sounds like they don't bring much to the table besides you being
comfortable with them. Which is important no doubt about it.
So you've got all the founders you need, but still don't have a means to build
the product. Building a product from the ground up for non-founder equity and
room and board is ridiculous. If you are competing for people with the skills
to build a product from zero to MVP and beyond on a global scale, you must
realize these same people have the opportunity to do the same thing somewhere
else but for an equity share matching their contribution.
I see you have a few options:
* Pay your hackers market salary minus local COL. (2 month contract I'm guessing would be about 20k per head)
* Outsource the job (Guessing somewhere around 50k)
* Replace your CTO with someone who can commit and build the product. (Free)
* Roll the dice with some go getter looking for an adventure.
~~~
c52Andy
Super informative, and noted on the 23 yo "me," djb. I've had similar
experiences in music (touring the country in a van post-25 years old starts to
look pretty aggravating).
I'm about to supplement this thread because I feel the information shared has
gone beyond the scenario question (which wasn't meant to carry any ulterior
motive but simply help us ascertain what value that might hold in trying to
hire a team).
That said, because of some of the talent that has responded with a 'I want to
know more' proposition, I want to address that as a blanket comment.
-Aloha
------
shuzchen
To answer your question, while it's not an offer I'd likely take up, I don't
think it's slave-labor lame or offensive, so long as you make things clear as
to the exact terms of the arrangement. Nobody is forcing anything to do
anything, so IMO the only time you'd be in the wrong was if you misled
anybody.
However, I'd like to encourage you to "shop local". While it doesn't appear to
be the case, there are a lot of talented devs available locally. I'm part of a
fledgling makerspace on O'ahu, and in the past few months I've met a ton of
developers that came out of the woodwork. Did you know we had a startup
weekend here? Our makerspace also had two teams participate in node knockout.
I can't speak for Maui, but I'm sure the situation is the same (and you guys
have a more mature makerspace, why not join up and start networking?).
If you need any help networking (I can get you in touch with
alohastartups.com), or are open to an alternate proposal, feel free to contact
me ([email protected])
~~~
c52Andy
Mahalo Shuzchen, the CTO I mentioned in another reply (a Rails guy) is on
O'ahu. We've been working with him to try and find local hackers to work with;
no cash is the prevailing 'fail' but we'd love to hook up with locals - I grew
up on Kauai and our daughter (who's empty room is mentioned) was born on Maui.
Was telling a SCORE guy here (also on TechHui) that we'd love nothing more to
keep it local and stay brick and mortar here too. Any help appreciated; I'll
email now.
------
apsurd
Most people including myself care most about _what_ it is we are building and
why. Working on meaningful and/or technically or socially interesting problems
will go a long way for most here I think.
I personally despise freelance work. Yet I spend countless hours working on my
own projects which don't net me a dime.
So with that in mind, what do you want to build?
~~~
c52Andy
Thanks Jade. "Yes I spend countless hours..." Exactly how we got here! Just
emailed you at gmail.
------
geoffschmidt
It is not offensive, as long as you offer meaningful amounts of equity (it
sounds like you are at the idea stage and are basically looking for
cofounders, and you should probably offer cofounder-size stakes and use the
same care you would take in selecting a cofounder.)
Good people have an enormous number of opportunities right now. The risk you
run is that you'll attract only people that aren't very good, and not realize
it, since it doesn't sound like you have a strong enough tech background to
put them through a solid tech interview. So my advice is to find a friend of a
friend who has been through the full cycle of hiring engineers and shipping a
successful project, and have them vet your choices.
~~~
c52Andy
Thanks Geoff, solid advice.
Forgot to mention in post that we have an acting CTO/senior advisor that has
held that role at several other companies (and currently employed as such)
that would help us identify/vet the pair. He's interested but unwilling/unable
to leave his job and he already lives in Hawaii! ;) But, he's going to
basically 'donate' an hour a day to review code and help shape strategy, and
is interested in coming on board for salary/equity if we can find seed.
We're still struggling with what constitutes fair equity. Obviously x% of 0 is
still null. So on the one hand giving over founders share is attractive; on
the flipside, we're trying to offer some cash/benefits up front to hackers
while bootstrapping; wouldn't founder equity also include founder 'stakes' (no
pay, doing it for the love/risk, etc.)?
~~~
stdbrouw
"But, he's going to basically 'donate' an hour a day to review code and help
shape strategy, and is interested in coming on board for salary/equity if we
can find seed."
My beef here is that the people who do the least amount of work or, in the
case of you and your wife, have the least amount of tech-related skills, would
be running the show. If I'm working all day on _your_ startup, the last thing
I want is to have that day end with a CTO looking over my shoulders and
criticizing my code, especially when that CTO obviously lacks the same amount
of commitment that I have. It'd be even more grating if that CTO would then
come on full time and essentially jump over me and my colleagues who have done
all the work, both in salary and title.
Also, you'd have to be able to prove that you are actually an interesting
founder to work with and have skills (if not coding, something else) that will
be an asset for the company in the long run. Nobody wants an "idea man" as
his/her boss.
Lastly, if you work 12 hours a day, whether you do so in Hawaii or in Siberia
doesn't really matter all that much. If you only expect your coders to work
for 4-5 hours a day, now that's something else.
Coding-for-space isn't offensive, it just isn't all that appealing.
~~~
c52Andy
This feedback is exactly why I posted - and thanks for the scenario. We def
bring a lot more to the table than ideas (UI design, proven branding and
marketing knowledge/experience; enough skills to jump in wherever needed and
whenever needed - "Hey, write me some CSS for that page while I tweak xyz..."
"OK, done.") - and the site is admittedly more of a marketing play then a tech
play (words of another hacker that's reviewed materials to date). That said,
super valid points re. someone 'hopscotching' and well spotted on 12hour days
in Siberia. That said, I work about 16 on average and still enjoy the view
(and weather) a lot more in those down hours - so surely environment carries
some equity. No mai tais in Russia... good Vodka though!
~~~
stdbrouw
"the site is admittedly more of a marketing play then a tech play" — that
could actually be an advantage if it means you chiefly need coders for a
couple of months to get things started, rather than a multi-year commitment.
Makes it look more like a vacation.
~~~
c52Andy
"Makes it look more like a vacation." True assuming an MVP in exchange for a
short vacation sounds fair; and effectively that was our thought - spend the
time to get it launched here, then go home.
BUT, equity in exchange would be restricted stock options with vesting clauses
- so longer commitment required beyond an MVP. If we had e.g., 1/2+ the cash
to pay a team for 6 weeks full-time that _might_ be fair w/no equity and a
'paid vacation' on reduced salary; but I personally wouldn't go for that...
not without an extra month of no-work live-in included anyway!
------
md1515
Actually I think this is a fabulous idea. Obviously hackers would need to
believe in what you two are doing, but I am under the impression many hackers
just like some freedom. They like to live in exotic and beautiful places
(ahem..Maui), they are comfortable with living expenses paid (ahem..airfare,
room, food) and a bit of cash for the rainy day fund.
There are a lot of freelance hackers and a lot of people who would jump at the
idea. Naturally, it depends what your idea is and how big the pay and equity
are, but this is cool and creative.
I have been to Hawaii and if I new how to properly program I'd be on board!
Good luck
~~~
c52Andy
Thanks for the validation 'doc' :) We're hoping to find that right pair.
------
abbasmehdi
Have you tried to learn basic web development? If you have time, invest a few
weeks either way. I don't think you're being unfair if you're offering free
housing, fair equity and free food. It is more than what most cofounders offer
one another. However you have to find people who are passionate enough about
your idea to make it their own and have a good working relationship with.
~~~
c52Andy
totally agreed abbasmehdi "find people who are..." and thanks for the comment.
regarding basic web development: we've built several sites over the last 10
years, but have never learned to hack in a language (e.g. RoR); just bits of
code as needed and lots of 'wysiwyg' manipulation.
we're basically trying to build a web application and think given our current
jobs and lives it would take us a year or longer (much, much longer!) to
acquire that sort of skill set, so we think best handled by experts (or
experts in training).
------
wpietri
Depending on the details of the offer, it's reasonable.
Please make sure there are clear written agreements drawn up by a startup-
experienced lawyer before any work starts. The right lawyer will be able to
help you figure out correct amounts of equity and proper vesting for this
unusual situation.
~~~
c52Andy
Thanks wpietri, and excellent advice. Have some beginning docs and trying to
schedule meeting with a couple Hawaiian start-up lawyers
------
itmag
_The question is, does an offer like this seem totally slave-labor lame and
offensive, or does it sound like a unique opportunity to work on a project
that we plan to take national and then global from a groovy location?_
Heh, I am already an underpaid slave. And in perennially-grimdark Sweden to
boot. I get no vitamin D outside of pills and the main high point of the week
is paying out your ass for overpriced alcoholic painkillers on Saturday night.
Maybe to overpaid snotty Americans your offer sounds bad, to me it sound
totally bad ass :)
------
JamesPeterson
This sounds great to me! That said, I'm a 20yo finance undergrad who merely
dabbles - like yourself - in tech and web technologies and probably am not a
useful _hacker_ per se (at least as far as programming goes!).
Your offer appeals to me as a great opportunity, but I'm obviously not who
you're after.
------
ameen
Sounds interesting, but what is it that you're looking to build. I'd be
interested if and only if I knew what I would be doing. People need to believe
in what you're looking to build, and that would directly influence their
choice. Visions need to be aligned to build a company.
Good luck though!
------
joelrunyon
You would be very interested in the TropicalMBA.com || They've done something
fairly similar with several talented people. Not necessarily developers per
se, but they've had some really interesting success stories come out of it. I
think they're on their 9th intern in about 2 years. Good stuff.
------
jcr
Though it may or may not be intentional, it would probably help a lot if you
updated you HN profile to include your email address (the email address used
to sign up is never shown). I'm not sure I can really help, but if you want,
contact me through email (address in my profile).
------
teyc
Building a marketplace is _hard_. You'd want to prove that you are capable of
being scrappy and still build a community. Once you've got that, then you will
have a better pick of developers because at least you have some proof of
traction.
~~~
c52Andy
Thanks teyc. By scrappy do you mean it could be cobbled but the idea/marketing
would trump poorly executed code?
~~~
teyc
For a marketplace, you have an advantage doing it this way. Initially, there
wouldn't be a lot of users. So badly performing code wouldn't necessarily
matter so much. If you happen to have a Twitter style growth, FailWhale is a
good kind of problem to have.
Look for some of the PHP marketplace scripts. Actually, Dating is a typical
marketplace (for people). If you have design skills, you can replace the
graphics and text and you should have a semblance of a starter site rather
quickly.
Whatever you do, only offer equity on the basis of people delivering working
code. Otherwise, you'd have a ton of free lodgers.
~~~
c52Andy
super helpful teyc, and duly noted. thanks again! =)
------
jrubinovitz
I know I personally would consider that, but it really depends on the project
and it relies on the fact that I do not have a family to support. Definitely
feel free to email me.
------
itmag
You would fly someone in from Sweden and pay for their room & board + equity?
Doesn't sound so bad to me. I might know a few people interested in this.
Contact me :)
------
keeptrying
I am very interested. I've always wanted to live in Maui. Send me an email.
Contact info in my profile.
~~~
c52Andy
email sent.
------
joelrunyon
Also, I'd be interested in hearing what you guys are up to fwiw.
------
stevenj
Do you have an email address that we can contact you through?
~~~
c52Andy
sure - ajohnson at johnsonbeesley dot com
------
ameen
Sounds interesting. Drop me a mail. Good Luck!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you think about programs? - GeneralMaximus
I've been trying to learn Apple's Cocoa libraries for a few weeks now. I found that writing small applications is a piece of cake, but when I start writing larger apps I tend to get lost in the complexity of my own creation.<p>My question is this: how do you think about your applications while you're writing code?<p>Hillegass uses object diagrams (is that what they're called?) to represent relationships between objects in his apps. How do <i>you</i> do it? More importantly, do you use a pen and paper to design your programs up-front (my preferred method) or do you jump right into the code? Do you use diagramming tools to create your object diagrams? Do you write specs? Do you write notes to yourself?<p>What I'm trying to find out here is an effective method for creating a high level overview of the app I'm working on so that I can tape it to the wall and look at it to figure out what I have to do next. My usual method of writing down TODOs in random notebooks and losing them at college doesn't seem to be working out that well.
======
frig
This is cocoa-specific, though some of it generalizes.
I'm not a huge fan of the Hillegrass book for actual beginners, but sadly
there's not a better book out, yet; it's almost easiest to learn some other,
better-documented GUI application framework, then come back to Cocoa (assuming
you have time).
Assuming you don't have that kind of time, though, here's my recommendations:
Cocoa development also depends heavily on the workings of NSApplication, and
it's a good idea to stop and read up on how that works; it's super helpful to
actually know what's going on between the points where the code you wrote is
being used, and to understand that you need to have a working understanding of
how NSApplication is structured.
Apple has ok docs on this (I'd start by reading up on NSRunLoop, then looking
up anything you encounter you don't understand), but nothing amazing.
Once you've gotten that understanding, you'll have a much easier time
understanding what you have to do to make an application do what you want.
Now we move on to handling specific applications.
I suggest the following design algorithm:
"Simultaneously", start figuring out your application's user interface and its
data model. I say "simultaneously" but it's really a bit of a back-and-forth.
For example, you decide you're going to write a blogging client (I think this
is an example in Hillegrass's book?).
So, ask yourself what data items does a blog post typically have? Provisional
answer: title and body.
What user interface elements do you need for a blog post? The data model
dictates those: right now, a text field for title and a larger text field for
the body.
If we were going to be more realistic we'd probably want a richer data model
(some "authored by" field, some field for "tags" or "categories", etc.) and a
more-complicated user interface to match.
If you hit a "stopping point" in this process -- meaning, a point @ which you
are satisfied that your data model covers everything it needs to and your user
interface elements are complete -- we can move on to the next step.
The next step is getting a sheet of paper, or a whiteboard, etc., and putting
up some representation of each user interface (eg: each type of window or
dialog), with lots of space between them.
Next, you go through each user interface item and ask
\- "what information does this item need to display itself properly"? (eg: a
blog-post-editing view needs the blog post's data object.) You should annotate
each user interface item with some representation of the data item(s) it needs
to render itself.
Once you've done that, you make another pass through each user interface
element, asking the question:
\- from this user interface item (say, the blog post editing window), which
other user interface items can I get to? Which other user interface items can
I be arriving from?
Once you've done that, you go back through and ask the following question for
each "entry path" into a user interface item:
\- for each entry path into this user interface item, what information would I
need to set up this user interface item correctly? (for example: if you're
editing an existing post, you need to have the data object corresponding to
the post you're editing; if you're creating a new post, maybe you need
nothing, or maybe you need some kind of placeholder reference to the post-to-
be-created)
Note this is DIFFERENT from the step where you listed the data item(s) the
user interface item needed to render itself. For example, to render itself,
the blog-post-editing-view needs SOME blog post data object; however, if
you're moving from a list of all blog posts to editing a specific blog post,
the blog post editing view needs THAT SPECIFIC BLOG POST.
Once you've done that, you make a final pass, asking the following question
for each "exit" path:
\- for each exit path from a user interface item, can I supply the information
the user interface item I'm entering needs? (ie: if you're leaving the "blog
posts" listing view to go edit a blog post, the blog-post-editing-view needs
the blog post's data object; can you supply it?)
For example: if I'm leaving the "blog post listing view" and heading into the
"blog post editing view" to edit a specific blog post, then the "blog post
editing view" needs to be given that specific blog post to render.
Is it possible to get that information from the "blog post listing view" to
the "blog post editing view"? Yes, b/c the "blog post listing view" knows
which "blog post object" you selected.
You'll find yourself answering "no" when you have what I'd call a long-
distance dependency in your user interface workflow: to get to view C from
view A you pass through B, but the naive implementation of B doesn't let you
pass along some needed bit of information from A to C; this is probably the
single-most-common source of frustration/head-slapping when you're first
learning Cocoa (or any GUI app).
Hopefully, you'll finish all this work and have found no unpleasant surprises
(ie: you have exhaustively analyzed your program's workflow using the above
information and all information you need can be delivered to where it is
needed).
If you've got some gaps -- user interface modes that can't get information
they need -- you should fix your diagram (adding extra data-items to user
interfaces as-needed).
Once you're done with this you should more or less have the "Model" and "View"
tiers of your application figured out -- the "model" objects are all the data
model objects, and the "view" tier is all the user interface items you've made
(eg: all the separate .nib files).
You can go ahead and write the data model classes and create the .nib files
now.
From here, building out skeletal controllers is pretty easy: for each user
interface item, you build out a controller class, making sure it has fields
for each user interface element in your user interface item (eg: it has one
field each for the "title" text field and the "post" text field) and one field
for each data item it has to know about (eg: a "post editing view" controller
has a field for a "blog post" data object).
You now have to add the actual logic to the controller. This comes in three
main forms:
\- you add code to synchronize the user-interface with the data item (ie: if
I've got this "blog post" data item, write a method that makes the on-screen
"title" field == the "title" field in the "blog post" data item, and so on)
\- you add code to synchronize the data model with the user interface (ie: if
the on-screen "blog post" has such-and-such title and such-and-such post, this
code makes the "blog post" data item's fields the same)
\- you add code for handling each "entry" and "exit" from the corresponding
view (eg: one method for setting up a view to start editing an existing blog
post, one method for setting up a view to start creating a new blog post, and
some methods to handle closing-the-view-and-saving-your-work)
If get through with all the above, you're going to be pretty close to finished
with whatever application you're writing; the last steps are dealing with
stuff like the "startup" code (when the program starts, how does it bootstrap
itself into a user interface state?) and similar tasks.
The above process is extremely heavyweight, and I don't pretend to use it
anymore -- I might sketch out particularly-complicated parts, but not the
whole app -- but I do recommend mocking up at least your first few progs with
it; it's a good learning exercise, and it's a little more "obvious" than a
pure "object diagram".
------
lallysingh
I've tried a lot of systems (omni* and a few others), but here are what stick
with me:
Emacs Org-Mode for the day-to-day stuff that I want to keep in front of me
when I'm writing code. It's essentially perfect for it. Using the tables with
pasted-in code is utterly fantastic (hint: replace-regex '^' with '|> ' and
it'll keep your indentation before you hit tab and tablify the code).
Org mode does tables, outlines, todo lists, agendas, mostly everything a
programmer's going to want day to day.
For higher-level planning, I leave the workstation. Get a cup of
coffee/soda/juice/who-are-we-kidding-its-coffee and a table away from
computers. A moleskine (the squared one, with the grid layout) and a good pen
(I like these $4 pilot extra-fine vballs) is what I use. Relaxing music in
noise-canceling headphones FTW.
Do yourself a favor and begin with the habit of writing the date on a page
when you start writing on it. It's useful for you to see your progress over
time, and it can be helpful later in patent disputes.
As for the thinking process itself, here's my heuristic:
\- Small apps are mostly driven by a framework you just use (probably some
MFC/DI garbage). Keep your code clean & organized, and work a little to keep
the expected chaos from working with always-mysterious frameworks contained.
E.g. don't ever trust the framework to handle your model code for you. Use
proxy classes, multiple inheritance, whatever to firewall yourself from that
chaos.
\- Medium apps have enough internal structure to get past the cognitive mass
of the framework. There, you end up with a top-level abstraction that
structures the app. Be it a pipeline, a set of command objects, or a data
structure you maintain, there's one big one and the app is structured by it.
\- Large apps have a few of these. They're independent subsystems and you
firewall their interactions the best you can. Unless you've got the time/labor
for large-scale refactoring, you generally just try to keep the abstractional
dams from breaking. In those cases, I usually try to get some middleware in
there, so I can easily handle stubs, testing, and interactive use with each.
If you've got a REPL, you can avoid it, but in C++/Java, it can really help.
~~~
lallysingh
Edit: s/MFC/MVC/. Freudian slip there.
------
pbrown
I started with post-it notes, but kept losing them too. Now I use Freemind,
and have a really big whiteboard (of the manual variety) on the wall in my
office.
You mentioned you're having a problem with big apps. I'm the same way. At the
risk of sounding condescending (which I'm not) break the big app down into a
bunch of small apps (features). I find this works for me in two ways. 1.) I
can code the small apps easier (and then ideally put them together into the
big app). and 2.) If I find I'm getting feature creep, it's easier to dump 1
or 2 "small" apps rather than rethinking the whole project.
------
karim
"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
René Descartes
I break the program in functional parts that are easier to grasp and I
assemble those parts only after having written tests for those parts.
------
rubentopo
No one method works all the time, this depends on the paradigm of the target
language. At least i can't use one method.
One thing that makes it much easier (at least for me) is trying to use
dependency injection, otherwise i get lost.
Misko Hevery said it better. [http://misko.hevery.com/2008/11/11/clean-code-
talks-dependen...](http://misko.hevery.com/2008/11/11/clean-code-talks-
dependency-injection/)
------
jacquesm
I outline first, then turn the outline into the program. Items on the outline
are 'actions' or 'data', data goes to the top of the outline, actions follow.
I hope that's clear and that it will work for you, it works like a charm for
me, even for very large projects.
Outline editors are a dime a dozen, not sure which ones you could use on the
mac though...
------
lyime
Omni Graffle and Mindmaps. Pen and Paper works too.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Impact of of [dead] links on submitter privileges - larryfreeman
I have great respect for Hacker News. I visit the site every day and have tried my best to contribute to the high quality of the site.<p>I posted on HN when I quit my corporate job (id=209576). I've posted about my time at Sun (1999-2007) and about my experience as a manager. I've attend start up school numerous times and have really enjoyed the experience.<p>I tell you all this because I want to make it clear that I am a real person here and not someone who has tried to promote their start up or do any kind of spam. In this question, I will not post any links directly that go outside of HN.<p>HubPages is now a site that has been blacklisted at Hacker News (For the record, I still a big fan of HubPages even though I stopped working there in February). All the links that I submitted from HubPages are now marked [dead] even though they work fine. To be clear, I do not have any problem with this. Hacker News has been maintaining a high quality of content for news stories. I understand that this is part of what happens.<p>I understand why the links have been marked [dead]. HubPages is a user generated web site and as such, many of its users have used whatever means to promote their links. This has resulted in low quality submissions and spammers and that's why HubPages has been uniformly blocked. Wikipedia also has HubPages blocked (An editor at Wikipedia did eventually approve links I posted to blog.hubpages.com because they saw that they were relevant to the article on HubPages).<p>I write this because I want to make clear that all the links I posted here were to blog.hubpages.com and were to links to blog posts that I wrote and which I hoped would be interesting to the audience on HN. These were my views on the trends in the social content space.<p>None of the stories I submitted got any above a 1 rating. This may because it was linked to HubPages. This may be because the content is my stories was judged not to be too interesting. I accept those judgments. It is those judgments which makes Hacker News such a great site! After getting enough of those nonresponses, I stopped submitting any of my blog posts to HN.<p>My question is how does having [dead] links in your submissions affect your status at HN? I ask this because it seems to me to be a mark of shame to have it, as if I've been labeled a spammer. I think if someone has a large number, that should penalize them. I have 7 of them at present.<p>I thought that it might be valuable to ask this question since other people active on this site, especially user-generated web sites will hit issues of web site reputation. If a link that we post becomes [dead], does this have any effect on the user? Will this person automatically be denied if they apply to start up school? Is there any process for getting a change in status to [dead] links?<p>Is there a list anywhere of all the web sites that are currently blocked on HN?<p>Thanks very much<p>-Larry
======
iamelgringo
Hey.
I've been on the leader board for quite some time, and I occasionally and
inexplicably have some of my posts declared [dead]. I suspect that sometimes I
hit against a x_num_posts/hour wall, or that I occasionally hit up against a
blocked domain.
Needless to say, I'm still on the leader board, I've been to startup school a
couple of times, and I haven't seen any deleterious effects.
There is no appeal process on HN, mainly because PG is the admin, and he's got
more important stuff to do.
Also... There's a lot more to startup life than HN. Move out here to Silicon
Valley, start attending local events like <http://www.hackersandfounders.com>
or 106 miles and get plugged in. And, more importantly, build up real life
karma points in person, rather than on HN.
~~~
larryfreeman
Hi iamelgringo,
Thanks very much for the link to HackersandFounders, that looks great! I live
in Silicon Valley so I will start attending as I can.
------
jcr
Larry, first of all don't worry about it. There is stuff that I find
interesting, but no one else around here does. Maybe it speeds past unnoticed,
or maybe it's of no interest to anyone but me. There is no way to tell either
way.
I rarely make submissions, and I rarely post, but I read, vote and flag here
constantly. It takes a lot of reading to get a feel for what others here
generally consider interesting and find the overlap with your own interests.
I have one [dead] post and seeing it in my list _still_ makes me laugh. The
reason why it's dead is simply my sense of humor got the better of me, and
oddly enough, it was upvoted a few times before being flagged to death.
If HubPages is a source of spam, move your blog elsewhere.
If you're worried about the [dead] submissions in your profile, put a link to
this submission in the text of your profile so people know the reason for the
[dead] submissions. I don't know of a person who would hold them against you,
but the system running HN is a different story.
As for your questions on the effects that [dead] posts have on users of the HN
system, sadly you're asking for dangerous information. Hacker News runs on a
lot of secret sauce to prevent abuse, so PG will not divulge how it works to
prevent the rules from being gamed. Even those with reasonably well researched
theories about the secret sauce won't talk about it if they have any respect
for PG or everyone else on HN.
For this reason, I won't even speculate about what [dead] posts might or might
not mean to the system. I hope you understand why.
~~~
larryfreeman
Hi jcr,
Thanks for the response. To be clear, the blog was the HubPages official blog.
I used to be an engineer there.
I completely understand about the secret sauce at HN. I just wanted to check
to see if there was something I could do.
I'm always amazed at how well HN runs as a PG part-time project so even if
there is an impact on me, I accept it.
I've attended start up school enough times, that if I don't get to attend
again, that's ok. Maybe it's time for me to be successful enough to be a
speaker. :-)
------
shii
Hmm, for some reason jawartak's comment below is dead, maybe he deleted it or
it's been killed for some reason. Anyways:
jawartak 41 minutes ago | link [dead]
Here's the list: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=499044 It's a bit old, though.
------
pitdesi
I'm having a similar issue, with links from our startup. Sometimes folks have
submitted links from us that probably aren't meant for the HN crowd, but we
definitely also write a lot of stuff that might be useful to HN folks. For
example, someone submitted this blogpost of ours a couple of days ago - 5
reasons to quit your corporate job and join a startup:
[http://feefighters.com/blog/5-reasons-to-leave-the-
corporate...](http://feefighters.com/blog/5-reasons-to-leave-the-corporate-
world-and-join-a-startup/)
Seemingly very relevant to HN, yet it was instantly marked [dead], and we have
no idea why. I tried submitting it too, and the same thing happened.
Can someone explain? We're active members of the community, as is obvious from
our posts/comments. Many of our feefighters posts have been on the front page
for an extended period of time... see:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2235710>
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2310154>
etc... but now all of our posts are blacklisted.
Anyone? Anyone?
~~~
jcr
I can explain it, but don't consider my explanation authoritative, or for that
matter accurate. The problem is the format of your writing. It's essentially
indicating low quality content and is using link bait titles. --I know this is
not a very nice thing to say, but it is not intended as an insult, and there's
very good reason to say it...
<http://paulgraham.com/nthings.html>
Additionally, you should reread the guidelines for hacker news:
<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>
> If the original title begins with a number or number + gratuitous adjective,
> we'd appreciate it if you'd crop it. E.g. translate "10 Ways To Do X" to
> "How To Do X," and "14 Amazing Ys" to "Ys." Exception: when the number is
> meaningful, e.g. "The 5 Platonic Solids."
The problem you face is if you get flagged by enough HN users for violating
the guidelines, the site gets automatically black listed.
~~~
pitdesi
That makes sense... Except that I've seen a lot of those on the front page (5
ways to X)
But I agree that it makes sense to crop it. Thanks for a refresher on the
guidelines.
~~~
jcr
Ya, some occasionally get through but considering PG took the time to write an
essay on the topic, you can see why they're discouraged, and hence,
problematic as submissions. I'm sorry if I was a bit to blunt in my
explanation but I lacked the panache to find a nicer way to phase it and still
get the important parts across.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Mechanical Turk: The New Face of Behavioral Science? - ryan_j_naughton
http://priceonomics.com/mechanical-turk-new-face-of-behavioral-science/
======
jbarrios
Crowdsourcing marketplaces offer unique advantages to researchers that are
simply impossible to achieve with traditional methodologies, here's a few:
1) External Validity: Today, almost all research labs in Universities have to
source their participants from their respective undergraduate population.
Studies suggest that the results gathered from 'convenience samples' cannot be
generalized to the general population. That is, the results from experiments
conducted on 19-23 year old Stanford undergraduates may not be representative
of the general population
([http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/research/~/media//Files/MSB/Re...](http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/research/~/media//Files/MSB/Research/Recent-
Publications/2014Q1/PetersonR)). MTurk offers researchers a more diverse
subject pool in age, geography, language, and culture.
([https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jieun5/publications/2012-icmpc-m...](https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jieun5/publications/2012-icmpc-
mturk.pdf))
2) Cross-cultural and International Studies: Conducting cross-cultural
research though traditional methodologies requires dealing with differing
national requirements for protecting human subjects;variation in data
collection processes in primary care practices; data transmission among
participants; duties and tariffs on necessary instruments; fluctuation in
currency exchange rates; incapacitation of coinvestigators; complex
administration of funds; financing the additional, legitimate costs of
collaboration; sustaining strong personal relationships among coinvestigators;
and accepting longer time frames than would otherwise be expected.
([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1466730/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1466730/)).
The diversity on Mechanical Turk facilitates cross-cultural and international
research at a very low cost (labs.yahoo.com/files/mturkmethods.pdf)
3) Faster Theory/Experiment Loop: One implicit goal in research is to maximize
the efficiency with which one can go from generating hypotheses to testing
them, analyzing the results, and updating the theory. Ideally, the limiting
factor in this process is the time it takes to do careful science, but all too
often, research is delayed because of the time it takes to recruit subjects
and recover from errors in the methodology. With access to a large pool of
subjects online, recruitment is vastly simplified
(labs.yahoo.com/files/mturkmethods.pdf)
Traditional researchers have raised questions about the quality associated
with the data collected from participants. The empirical evidence strongly
suggests that the quality of data collected from mturk participants meets or
exceeds the standards associated with published research
([http://www.pomona.edu/Academics/departments/psychology/files...](http://www.pomona.edu/Academics/departments/psychology/files/Buhrmester%20-Crowdsourcing-
Amazon-MTurk.pdf))
([http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna...](http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057410)).
Evidence that Mechanical Turk is a valid means of collecting data is
consistent and continues to accumulate (Mason & Suri, 2012)
Disclaimer: I'm a crowdsourcing technology advisor to the department of
Psychology at Vanderbilt University, VizCogLab, and UVic Center for Autism
Research. I'm also the co-founder and CEO of Cognilab Technologies, an online
platform that allows researchers to publish their experiments on mturk.
------
ramidarigaz
I'm doing a Master's thesis in the intersection between Cognitive Science and
Machine Learning. The group I work with looooves Mechanical Turk. It's such a
cheap way to do small validation studies.
~~~
tectonic
I've used it for data gathering, but found it to be a pretty homogenous group
of people. What has your experience been?
~~~
sireat
There are various clusters of homogeneous people. You have your classic
/r/beermoney students, same as you would get from regular studies on campus.
Then you get your bored housewives of US, and oversees workers mostly
Indians/Philipinos.
Once you realize these large groups of people exist, you can still get useful
work done by accounting for obvious biases.
Disclaimer: I've used MTurk both for surveys as a requester and also used it
as a Turker for a month two years ago, whenever I got bored.
I saw so many Kahneman inspired studies it was not even funny at the end.
(Monty Hall problems, priming, $1.10 bat+ball problem, etc etc) . I ended up
making around $6 an hour.
The best problems were porno classification problems.
I suppose that is standard stuff you do in psychology these days.
------
john_horton
If you're looking for a discussion of running economics-style experiments on
MTurk (as well as some advice on keeping online experiments internally valid):
[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1591202](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1591202)
------
runeks
I think Amazon's Mechanical Turk (MT) is fascinating. I really wish Amazon
would release more figures on its usage, rather than only the number of
registered users[1].
It would be really interesting to see how many people earn their wages through
this service. The chart in the article says 16% in Feb '10 [2], but I think it
would be really interesting to see 1) how much money they earn, 2) how many
hours they work, 3) where they live, 4) how much Amazon pays out in total in
MT wages (all anonymized data, of course).
[1] > The only numbers that we share regarding our Worker population are these
two -- which reflect our current state: Over 500K registered Workers from over
190 countries worldwide.
[https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=58891](https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=58891)
[2] [http://pix-
media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/835/ScreenShot2014-10...](http://pix-
media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/835/ScreenShot2014-10-14at4.58.57PM.png)
~~~
mandalar12
Here is an article [1] trying to estimate that kind of numbers (wage, number
of active workers, etc.) from various sources and questionning the ethics of
using MTurk for science purposes.
The bottom line is: one third of tasks are achieved by people relying on MTurk
(as primary or secondary money input) having working conditions that would not
be considered acceptable in any first-world country (hourly wages around $2,
working long hours with, obviously, no kind of worker advantage or
protection).
[1] [https://hal.archives-
ouvertes.fr/file/index/docid/569450/fil...](https://hal.archives-
ouvertes.fr/file/index/docid/569450/filename/LastWords_AMT.pdf)
~~~
jbarrios
Harvard recently published a paper on the mturk demographics, you can find it
here:
[http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/dtingley/files/whoarethesep...](http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/dtingley/files/whoarethesepeople.pdf)
If you're looking for something less academic, try out this great blog:
[http://experimentalturk.wordpress.com/](http://experimentalturk.wordpress.com/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
RethinkDB internals: Patching for fun and throughput - coffeemug
http://blog.rethinkdb.com/rethinkdb-internals-patching-for-fun-and-thro
======
spitfire
This feels like one of those optimizations that makes sense now, but very
quickly just becomes bloat. We've seen a lot of heroic optimizations that make
sense at the time and improve performance, which only a few years later
actually slow things down. Remove the "optimization" and go with the simpler
code, and things become much faster.
Optimizing for spinning hard disks seems like one of those optimizations that
will soon come back to bite you. Graph out the Iops improvement of SSD's.
We're getting to the point where we can think of an SSD as secondary memory
and treat hard disks as offline storage.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Algorithmic City - How can we scale cities for the future? - oulipo
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rand-hindi/sustainable-cities_b_3141830.html
======
regisfoucault
So interesting, thx Rand !
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What Made Apollo a Success? (1971) [pdf] - hownottowrite
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720005243.pdf
======
swozey
Funny timing on this, I just came across my grandfather's letter from the
Apollo program astronauts thanking him for his testing prowess and awarding
him the "silver snoopy" for professional excellence.
My other grandfather was the first shuttle launch director, the shoes we
fill..
Might interest some.
[https://lensdump.com/i/W1GAd0](https://lensdump.com/i/W1GAd0)
~~~
sizzzzlerz
What did your grandfather do and which astronauts signed the letter?
~~~
swozey
It's signed by Ronald Evans of Apollo 17. Both of my grandfathers and a lot of
my family worked for nasa for decades, though. We're all space coasters. A few
pilots. My grandmother was a typist there for instance.
He was some sort of rocket propulsion engineer back then, I'm not sure what
the actual title would have been. I asked him to write some memoirs a long
time ago but I don't bug him about it. He doesn't seem to think it's very
interesting. Guess that happens when it's your day job.
~~~
EvanAnderson
I certainly wouldn't ask you to bug him, but you might mention to him that
there are lots of people who would find anything he has to say about his
involvement with Apollo (and the space program in general) fascinating. His
stories are important and interesting, even if he doesn't think they are. I
wish I had a pointer to somebody who is collecting this history before it's
lost. (I wish I had the time and financial freedom to be doing that!)
~~~
japhyr
You might be interested in a book called Moondust. The author realized in the
early 2000s that at some point soon all of the astronauts who walked on the
moon would be gone. He set out to interview each of them about their
experiences at the time, and since visiting the moon.
It's a mix of space history and personal reflections on the perspective they
got, that none of us will likely have.
[https://www.amazon.com/Moondust-Search-Men-Fell-Earth-
dp-000...](https://www.amazon.com/Moondust-Search-Men-Fell-Earth-
dp-0007155425/dp/0007155425/)
~~~
frosted-flakes
A Man on the Moon by Andrew Chaikin (1998)[0] is also a great read. The author
explains in the forward that that was also part of his motivation to write the
book. I have the 23 hour audiobook, which is also quite well narrated.
[0]
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/896458.A_Man_on_the_Moon](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/896458.A_Man_on_the_Moon)
------
charliepark
This looks really interesting. "A series of eight articles … from the March
1970 issue of Astronautics & Aeronautics."
Quickly summarizing the table of contents and some of the internal content,
these seem to be the main takeaways:
• Create design principles that stress simplicity.
• Test exhaustively.
• Develop mission rules, procedures, and plans for potential issues ahead of
time; iterate as new information comes in.
• Execute rigorous post-mortems.
• Prioritize flexible yet disciplined management.
It's notable that this was published before Apollo 13. It'd be interesting to
see what changes Kranz et al. would make to these articles after that.
~~~
usermac
I've heard or read of this before, the first bullet, and can't help but to
compare this to what has happened with the 737 Max 8 current issue.
From the PDF comes: "Apollo gains a measure of simplicity from features simple
both in design and operation, complex in design but simple to operate, or
simple by being passive in function. The concept of simple design and simple
operation is best illustrated by the Apollo rocket-propulsion systems (fig.
2-2)."
~~~
sizzzzlerz
For a machine as complex as the Saturn 5 rocket, it is truly a credit to the
builders that it never suffered a major failure in any of the manned missions.
Same for the LM rocket which returned the astronauts to the command module.
Both had to absolutely work and both did.
As John Glenn quipped "It's a very sobering feeling to be up in space and
realize one's safety factor was determined by the lowest bidder on a
government contract."
~~~
delibes
Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee :(
I do get your point, and it's amazing it worked as well as it did. Space is
tough, and things are likely to go wrong, just as they still do with civil
aviation.
~~~
arethuza
Silly nitpick: Apollo 1 was a Saturn 1B not a Saturn 5.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1)
~~~
sizzzzlerz
It also wasn't a "mission". They were performing in a test. And, in any case,
the fire wasn't a fault of the rocket; it was a fire in capsule.
------
tra3
Brady Heywood Forensic Engineering Podcast [0], has an amazing series on
Apollo 13 [1]. It's 6 episodes, mostly narrated by Brady Heywood, with some
audio recording from Houston as well as the Apollo astronauts. It's riveting.
[0]: [http://bradyheywood.libsyn.com](http://bradyheywood.libsyn.com)
[1]:
[http://bradyheywood.libsyn.com/episode-21-apollo-13-p1-head-...](http://bradyheywood.libsyn.com/episode-21-apollo-13-p1-head-
for-the-hills)
------
bspammer
The very first sentence is confusing to me:
> On July 20, 1969, man first set foot on another planet.
Has the definition of planet changed over time?
~~~
Someone
[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/planet](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/planet):
_”1.2 Astrology historical
A celestial body distinguished from the fixed stars by having an apparent
motion of its own (including the moon and sun), especially with reference to
its supposed influence on people and events.
‘the planets are presently influencing you in a positive way’”_
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_planet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_planet):
_”In classical antiquity, the seven classical planets are the seven non-fixed
astronomical objects in the sky visible to the naked eye: Mars, Jupiter,
Venus, Saturn, Mercury, the Sun, and the Moon. The word planet comes from two
related Greek words, πλάνης planēs (whence πλάνητες ἀστέρες planētes asteres
"wandering stars, planets") and πλανήτης planētēs, both with the original
meaning of "wanderer", expressing the fact that these objects move across the
celestial sphere relative to the fixed stars.”_
------
hguant
>the main point is that a single man can fully understand this interface and
can cope with all the effects of a change on __either side of the interface__
(emphasis mine)
This is a really great and subtle point, and something that takes a lot of
rigour to turn into reality.
------
wespiser_2018
From the article: "If the design has been verified and if a thorough test
program has been completed it should not be necessary to make any changes. Of
course, this idealized situation does not exist in any program like Apollo
where design, test, and flight often overlap and must be carried out at the
same time." Wow, these remind me of the Joint Strike Fighter program, where
design/test/production all overlapped (concurrency) and cost overruns where a
huge issue. No doubt, we spared very little expense in the Apollo program,
cutting only the last two missions!
------
shmooth
Had to be Agile dev with CI/CD
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Why Android Will Dominate Japan - ig0rskee
http://blog.mobify.me/2009/12/05/why-android-will-dominate-japan/
======
mpk
Ever since Google announced Android I predicted that it would become a
dominant mobile environment. We're not there yet, but it's becoming
increasingly evident that Android is here to stay.
It shares a lot of similarities with linux. That linux hasn't become dominant
on the desktop can (to a large extent) be attributed to the entrenched desktop
market where people and organizations use the same system (and applications)
over many years.
Mobile doesn't have that yet. People switch phones every year or so and are
used to them all being different. Vendors can therefore pretty much pick a new
OS every few years (I'm simplifying this, of course).
When selecting a new OS, vendors will evaluate two main elements - price and
control. Pricing usually being bound to licenses (a form of control held by a
third party), it usually just boils down to control.
And what does Android offer? Control over everything vendors care about. For
the companies involved, software development is cheap, but not so cheap that
they can just build an OS from scratch (hi there Palm!). Also, Android is low
on legacy and fully web-ified (sorry for using that word).
Sure, you love your iPhone. Spare me the feedback. I get forwarded loads of
links telling me how crap Android systems are compared to Apple's stuff. But
that's just Apple with Apple hardware, Apple software and hard contracts for
the carriers. All the other vendors are hell-bent on breaking that. With
Android Google (who is not a vendor in this space) is basically flooding that
market with free, top-of-the-line R&D on the software end. Of course people
building the hardware are going to pick that up.
~~~
houseabsolute
> That linux hasn't become dominant on the desktop can (to a large extent) be
> attributed to the entrenched desktop market where people and organizations
> use the same system (and applications) over many years.
Its inferiority in most arenas of modern desktop usage explains its failure
better.
> When selecting a new OS, vendors will evaluate two main elements - price and
> control. Pricing usually being bound to licenses (a form of control held by
> a third party), it usually just boils down to control.
I agree that vendors will look at price. But it's less obvious to me that
control is important to them. I would think that software people are willing
to pay a lot of money for would be more valuable.
> top-of-the-line R&D
Almost. Almost top-of-the-line. As you mentioned, iPhone is _the_ top of the
line.
> Of course people building the hardware are going to pick that up.
I don't necessarily agree with all the points you used to reach this
conclusion, but I will say that there's compelling empirical evidence that
hardware manufacturers are going to buy in to Android. I don't think that this
conclusion though supports your initial claim ("Android will become a dominant
mobile environment"), unless you meant dominant in the less common "not
dominant but at least better than Windows Mobile" sense.
------
delayclose
The only non-fanboy argument in the article is Japanese carriers' hunger for
control. This is absolutely true, and might be the reason Android gets some
traction in Japan. But consider the implications of this for the user -- why
is it that you think that Android is a "good" OS, something that you'd want on
your own phone? "It's open and I can do whatever I want with it"? Well, not
after the Japanese carriers have their way with it.
~~~
pheon
yup and they will cripple everything to point where its impressive how low the
maximum perf of a 3rd party app will be... hopefully this round its gets to
double digit MHz
------
kingkongreveng_
It has a cutesy Japanese style mascot. Also, they love robots.
| {
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Lessons learned from making Blood Frontier game - lujz
http://www.bloodfrontier.com/
======
pod
Thats a shame, I really liked that game. I hope that the developers continue
to make games.
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Business Still Needs Sysadmins - jrussbowman
http://joerussbowman.tumblr.com/post/11555544940/business-still-needs-sysadmins
======
munin
I think the author misses a lot of what the original article was saying. for
example,
> When you look at the pure dollars and cents, if the could was going to knock
> out the Sysadmin profession, it would have done it already.
in a lot of business cases, it has. my employer uses google apps, we have no
sysadmin for email/phones/etc. my school just migrated all of their undergrad
email accounts to google apps. I work with a big company that outsourced all
their email/blackberry etc stuff to google apps.
there are some businesses that have the special-case needs that the author
describes. but there are a whole lot that don't. yeah, it would be nice having
some local IT guys around to kick when email knocks out, but is it $500k/yr
nice when I can outsource that for $50k/yr?
the pie isn't gone. but it is shrinking, imo. that cute t-shirt that says "I
can replace you with a very small shell script"? yeah well... is it as funny
when it's happening to you? ;)
~~~
nodata
But in your example, the sys admin hasn't been replaced by a small shell
script. You've just outsourced some of the systems they would have looked
after.
~~~
nl
Yes, but now 1 sysadmin manages between 10 and 100 times more machines than
they used to[1].
What is more, each machine supports more people than it used to.
[1] [http://blog.rapleaf.com/dev/2008/12/10/rent-or-own-amazon-
ec...](http://blog.rapleaf.com/dev/2008/12/10/rent-or-own-amazon-ec2-vs-
colocation-comparison-for-hadoop-clusters/)
[2]
[http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/12/30/how-m...](http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/12/30/how-
many-servers-can-one-admin-manage/)
~~~
jrussbowman
The number of machines a sysadmin can support depends on what's running on
those machines. This is a case where raw averages can be extremely misleading.
------
poisonbit
Depends on the size and activity of the business.
Maybe there is no need for a 100% time sysadmin, maybe there is need for 30
sysadmins across different time zones.
But that's not now, that has been always like that.
[http://poisonbit.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/opensource-
clouds-...](http://poisonbit.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/opensource-clouds-and-
liar-paradoxes/)
------
serverascode
Amazon may be the 8000 pound gorilla, but up here in Canada people are still
concerned about the patriot and other similar legalities in terms of storing
our data in US companies or in the US. I hear this all the time, and not just
public organizations, but also startups.
Or maybe group clouds, like Universities banding together to create IaaS.
So, to conclude, don't forget about private clouds. :)
------
gaius
I've been writing a bit about this in my blog recently. Devs and sysadmins
serious about their careers need to move out of the back office and into the
front office. <http://gaiustech.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/scrum/>
| {
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South Africa’s downward spiral since 1990 - flojo
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/367681-south-africas-downward-spiral-since-1990.html
======
Normille
Hmm... I wonder if anything happened in the early 1990s that might have led to
the complete ruination of the economy?
Oh. Silly me. As taksintikk points out; it's all Whitey's fault --as usual!
------
taksintikk
Who would have thought that systemic racist public policy would have such
profound long term consequences.
------
flojo
South Africa’s downward spiral since 1990
| {
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Where are they? Why I hope the search for extraterrestrial life finds nothing. - as
http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/20569/page1/
======
ericb
I have a sci-fi inspired theory that as a civilization advances, it modifies
itself such that it's mental processing speed and speed of communication
become faster. At a certain point, species at other speeds have less to offer
and communicating would be impractical as emitting a signal at our speed would
involve what would seem like eons of effort to them. Due to the speed
discrepancies, they'd mainly prefer talking to themselves.
One way or another, the "sends radio waves into space hoping for contact"
phase is probably very short. The possibilities for what phases come next are
not all bad, but whatever the "usual" is, it probably doesn't involve sending
radio waves out anymore. It's possible the next step is to evolve into
something that wouldn't like talking to us very much. Maybe that's not bad.
~~~
ph0rque
Charles Stross explores a very similar thesis in _Accelerando_
(<http://www.accelerando.org>): the civilization needs such intensive
bandwidth to continue functioning "normally" that the distance between
galaxies is too large to support both the bandwidth required and
intergalaxical expansion (it's been awhile since I read it, so correct me if
the details are fuzzy).
------
stcredzero
Charles Pellegrino/George Zebrowski covers this in _The Killing Star_ (1995).
They reason as follows:
1. Any species will place its own survival before that of a different species.
2. Any species that has made it to the top on its planet of origin will be
intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.
3. They will assume that the first two rules apply to us.
So any starfaring species might well destroy another starfaring species --
immediately. In _The Killing Star_ the aliens do so at the first opportunity
with high-powered relativistic bombardment. The power that they use dwarfs
that generated by asteroid impacts and past mass extictions. They blanket the
entire hemisphere of planets with relativistic projectiles! The earth is taken
out entirely in just two shots.
<http://sites.inka.de/mips/reviews/TheKillingStar.html>
~~~
ericb
It's an interesting theory, but advanced civilization is built on
collaboration, not defection (aggression). Most things that lead to advances
in civilization are based on collaboration: science, openness, sharing
knowledge, rule of law, free trade, contracts.
I would argue the exact opposite--any species that makes it to the top of the
food chain will likely have collaboration ingrained in their nature, and the
more advanced, the greater their collaborative nature will be.
~~~
stcredzero
Yes, but we tend to collaborate with members of our own species and
enslave/butcher/experiment on other species. Even our relationships with dogs
and other family pets can be highly unequal and sometimes downright
disturbing. (Treating them as chattel, "putting them to sleep" when it's more
convenient to do so.) So this counts against your position in two ways: 1) our
only data point indicates that interspecies collaboration is likely to be less
than cozy 2) others might observe our treatment of other species and use that
to evaluate our potential for hostility.
Also, our record with regards to polluting our own environment doesn't
recommend us highly as "good citizens of the galaxy." (This was brought up as
a possibility in David Brin's Sundiver series.)
And this isn't even considering the vast differences in culture and even basic
mental models there will likely be. It's far from a sure bet that this
openness will extend to us.
Also, one can readily imagine how a "innocuous" act from the point of view of
one species might be considered a greivous crime by another. (The Ender's Game
books are one example.)
~~~
ericb
I don't think we're highly advanced, so we have 0 data points from a highly
advanced species.
Collaboration leads to advancement and that trend applies to higher levels of
advancement than we are at. For example, imagine there was no war. Trillions
of dollars of economic activity could instead be directed toward, say, curing
cancer. The more collaborative a society, the farther and faster it can
advance. Learning from another species (thanks for the cool warp drive tips,
Xarcon!) is a type of collaboration that offers benefits that a species
doesn't get following the approach in the parent post. So, as a matter of
policy, extending the openness to other species can be sound strategy.
The rest of what you're saying is not really related to my argument, which was
focused solely on the "personality" of highly advanced species.
~~~
stcredzero
How many data points do you have for saying we're not "highly advanced?" I
should not have said "highly advanced" and should just have said "sentient
interstellar" instead. My discussion is about the future of humanity, not the
present day. We are not quite even space-faring yet.
Learning from another species' technology is likely to be a largely one-way
transaction. Instead of trading warp drive tips, it's much more likely that
the "Xarcon" will have warp drive and we will not. (Or vice-versa.) In any
case, if the other side has things like antimatter fueled starships, they may
still have the potential to wipe out the other civilization, or at least
preemptively cause huge damage to it. Why would another intelligent species
give up a potential technological advantage without first assuring the safety
of their own species? Of course, there are many ways of assuring such safety.
In the case of practical warp drive, one way of doing this would be to
withhold warp technology and use the intervening time to propagate your own
species. Another option might be to absorb the less advanced species into some
sort of confederation. Actually, a really savvy species would do both!
------
Tichy
I think I just found a possible alternative explanation, which given the odds
might actually be very probable: there is one situation in which aliens might
not want to show themselves to us. That is, if we are an experiment that their
interference would mess up. Perhaps they are just studying some sociology and
evolution theory with earth. We already are the result of the "von Neumann
probe".
We are not seeing any other aliens because our creators (not god, but some
aliens) are so powerful that they destroyed them or kept them away.
Well, just a random thought I had after reading the article.
~~~
r7000
Maybe the idea of messing with anything interesting is unthinkable. If you
were very advanced the only thing interesting would be stuff that originated
elsewhere (and mathematics). The thought of "contaminating" it would be
immoral. Even terraforming a lifeless planet or moon would seem like a waste
as you would be destroying information.
------
cousin_it
They became smaller. Found a galaxy in every atom and started colonizing them.
Life on the micro-level is fun because the speed of light is relatively huge.
They became faster. Foreseeing the heat depth of the universe, they invented a
way to squeeze an eternity of subjective time into a second of real time, and
stayed there. Or turned around in time. Or started oscillating back and forth
in the same time interval.
They invented wish control, eliminated the survival instinct and went extinct.
They contacted God and ascended.
~~~
jcl
They became dumber, could no longer understand the technology that was keeping
them alive, and died out.
Really, the only reason we are as intelligent as we are is because
intelligence turned out to be helpful for survival. But that same intelligence
lets us defeat our own survival instincts (which is why we have obesity, drug
addiction, and porn). This suggests that for continued survival, either our
instincts must become stronger than our intellects or our intellects must
become weaker than our instincts -- both of which lead to the same place:
exhaustion of resources before we actually accomplish anything.
(Disclaimer: I recently rented "Idiocracy".)
------
mynameishere
Possible filters:
1\. The singularity. (Though that begs the question: Why wouldn't robots be
observable? Perhaps they exist at a largely "virtual" level, as code, even as
they replace life.)
2\. Dysgenics, aka, Idiocracy. At some point, it may be evolutionarily
advantageous to _not_ become more advanced. This is certainly true at present,
on average, though the distribution of intelligence is becoming bimodal. The
actual filter might ultimately involve a great genocide by Morlock-esque
creatures.
3\. Gamma ray bursts. Could wipe out millions of civilizations all at once.
4\. Ice nine. This is the author's suggestion, basically. Some sudden
discovery that wipes out humanity too quickly for us to recover.
....certainly, the author is correct in observing that there are no
intelligent aliens, nor could they hide themselves unless they purposefully
disabled every radio transmitter for the duration of their hiding.
ED: The wiki article is actually pretty good:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox>
------
dangoldin
I've thought about this issue in the past and have a similar view to the
author's, forgive me if it's a little bit childish:
I believe that in order to develop space technology a species(let's call it
that) has to be technologically advanced but in order to be technologically
advanced the specieshas to be innovative and competitive.
But competition is the trait that can cause conflict and wars so any species
that has the capability to colonize foreign worlds also has the ability to
annihilate itself.
Thus I have this idea that every species that has been able to get this
technology has killed itself off. It's a morbid view but just an idea that I
have.
What I like to think is that we are getting more and more in line with nature
and less and less pugnacious so at one point maybe we'll get along with the
world - hopefully these advanced aliens have reached that point.
~~~
mdakin
Surely the path towards becoming technologically advanced also requires
cooperation in addition to competition. These two processes tend to hold one
another in balance nicely and yield results. I don't see any clear evidence
that suggests one or the other of those two processes will "win out" long
term. But if anything it seems humans have become more cooperative over time
in step with our technological advancement.
Assuming "competition" and ONLY the negative consequences of the competitive
process somehow trump all else, in particular cooperation, is depressing,
counterproductive and inconsistent with what I've seen in my own life.
------
sdurkin
If we are the only ones, I find that incredibly scary. We are incredibly more
precious than we thought. The fate of all intelligent life rests on this one
tiny speck.
I, for one, hope that we aren't the only ones, because if we fail, then its
all over. If there are more, intelligence will be able to carry on.
------
chmike
The only real paradox on this matter is that UFOs are systematically out ruled
as the expected manifestation of ETs.
There is apparently a prejudice on what an ET manifestation should or might
be. If there is no match, people mistakenly conclude that ET don't exist
instead of calling back into question their assumptions on what an ET
manifestation should be.
Most reasoning about ET naively project humans constrains or interests on them
as well as our rationale. This is quite naive.
The author suggest filters, I suggest barriers.
The most important barrier is interstellar travel which requires to be able to
collect energy somehow during the travel (i.e. from dark matter) or the be
able to completely freeze any activity and energy spending on board during the
travel (i.e. as do plant seed) and using the destination sun as energy source
to trigger to reactivation.
When a civilization has reached this stage, he most probably has become
independent of the need to be on firm ground like an earth or so. He will be
much more comfortable in a fully artificial, customized and big enough space
ship. What I mean to say is that their constrains may be totally different
than what we may expect based on our experience.
From this perspective I assume the real value (St Graal) is scientific and
engineering knowledge and mastering, and for this, if avoiding direct contact
and obvious manifestation can simplify the task, they'll do it.
We have no idea on their constrains, their knowledge and how humans are
positioned regarding it.
There are enough facts and data on UFOs however to learn and deduce things
about their technology. (i.e. electro magnetic propulsion, very intense
magnetic fields, supra conductive vehicle shell at room temperature and above,
protecting against magnetic field, etc...). These are not just speculations,
there are hard facts justifying them. (i.e light polarization due to intense
EM field around the UFO made visible on a photograph), etc.
Apparently very few people really take the time to investigate objectively and
in detail the data at hand and the hard facts.
~~~
ph0rque
> The most important barrier is interstellar travel which requires to be able
> to collect energy somehow during the travel (i.e. from dark matter) or the
> be able to completely freeze any activity and energy spending on board
> during the travel (i.e. as do plant seed) and using the destination sun as
> energy source to trigger to reactivation.
There is also the possibility of wormhole travel/other spacetime exotics...
~~~
chmike
Yes. But their existence, and validity as traveling technique, are still to be
proved.
The plant seed, or bacteria spore, analogy invalidates the claim that inter
stellar travel is impossible for living bodies. Inter stellar travel is thus
possible, even without energy source available on the way.
We also have to call back in question our assumptions on how a contact would
happen and how the ET would look like.
The abduction data is on this aspect very interesting because no one could
have predicted such a contact scenario. Note that I don't pretend it's true,
but the thing is that there is a striking piece of evidence on this subject
which out rules the theory of false memory. It is the Betty Hill star map that
Joachim Koch recognized as to be our solar system. This interpretation makes
much more sense than other interpretation for multiple reasons and the killing
detail in it is that Betty has drawn in 1962 a ring around Jupiter and the
ring was only discovered by Voyager 1 in 1979 !
------
hacklite
What difference would it make if there _were_ extraterrestrial life?
How would an advanced Alien intelligence view human beings, who exploit and
slaughter intelligent life around them on a daily basis, including other human
beings, and helpless animals who they raise under torturous conditions and
then dismember while conscious in order to consume them -- needlessly, as our
physiology does not require animal products.
Not to mention the warmongering, as the majority of the U.S. public supported
war -- as long as it seemed convenient. No anti-war stance on principle for
most U.S. citizens, bogglingly, especially after the lessons of Vietnam.
A lack of human rights or environmental laws in the most populous country on
Earth.
Widespread environmental destruction, wiping out forests and ecosystems all
over the globe.
I don't think Aliens would be too impressed with humanity in general,
including SETI researchers who retire to the cafeteria for a nice plate of
murdered intelligent being on a daily basis.
~~~
dfranke
The remarkable thing about humans is that we're even vaguely concerned about
environmental destruction. Out of millions of species, we're the only one that
is. So what makes you think that extraterrestrial species we encounter are
likely to care more than we do?
~~~
garbowza
It seems that most people aren't concerned with environmental description per
se, but rather how that destruction might affect their own lives. So really
it's just self preservation and self interest, which isn't much different from
other animals.
~~~
nazgulnarsil
right, but raising another sentient being in terrible conditions just to
slaughter and eat it might be considered a universal bad.
say an alien civilization comes along and is as far beyond us as we are beyond
cows. I think we'd raise some objections if they started eating us, even
though it is logically sound.
------
1gor
<http://www.exitmundi.nl> is a great collection of the Great Filter
candidates.
------
JacobAldridge
Nick mentions Environment Disaster as a possible existential risk, but perhaps
the environment is a more mundane and yet still 'Great Filter' that befalls
expansionist civilisations.
What if the resources required to leave the home planet (including here the
resources required for generations of technological steps to reach that point)
are more than an Earth-like planet can sustain? In other words, of necessity
or as close to it as probability allows, intelligent life must destroy the
sustainability of its home planet before it achieves the technology capable of
leaving it.
Of course, by leaving it I'm talking on the scale required to explore and
interact with neighbouring solar systems, not just sending Voyager 1 out there
with a picture on its side.
------
michael_dorfman
If we're going to posit extraterrestrial life, I'd view the fact that they've
stayed hidden from us as a de facto sign of intelligence. "Smart enough to
stay the fuck away" sounds like a good start, to me.
~~~
as
That was Bill Watterson's theory.
------
vchakrav
I believe that the author makes one fundamental mistake: Assuming that there
is one great filter, and that its common across all civilizations. It seems to
me there are a large number of filters, some of which applied (to dinosaurs,
for example). Some filters may cause end of all life (on earth), some others
may simply eradicate all human life..
Either way, on a cosmic scale, all this is beyond our control (I'd worry about
the sun going nova some day, but I have more pressing things to do), so not
much point worrying about it.
------
ph0rque
I think there's another possibility: advanced civilizations exist, but since
they're not malevolent (if they were, we wouldn't exist by now), their ethics
prohibit "disturbing" us in the slightest bit, including via the knowledge
that there are others out there. So they take care to camouflage themselves
when they visit.
~~~
sdurkin
Why? What possible reason could a benevolent race have for not helping us?
~~~
rms
They are so far above us that they don't notice our existence.
~~~
sdurkin
That's absurd. We would notice any intelligent society, no matter how
primitive.
~~~
rms
I guess what I'm trying to say is that advanced civilizations aren't
necessarily intelligent or conscious, at least how we define it. Something
could be self-replicating on an energy level much beyond us without being
particularly observant.
~~~
sdurkin
Benevolence seems to be something our species is trending toward, and is in
someway required as part of the foundation for civilization. As such, I think
its reasonable to believe that conscious or any derivatives thereof would be
concerned with the welfare of less advanced beings.
~~~
rms
>Benevolence seems to be something our species is trending toward
Definitely
>and is in someway required as part of the foundation for civilization
I disagree. The foundation of a civilization is energy and how much energy a
civilization can use. See the Kardashev scale:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale>
I'm trying to say that something could exist that is so fundamentally
different from us that it really doesn't care about our existence. Right now,
the biggest organisms on earth are fungi. There are some truly enormous fungi.
Imagine a fungus or set of fungi that start converting radiation directly to
mass for itself to grow. It could expand to surround its local sun. In certain
ways, this fungus is more advanced than us, but it would eat us alive without
noticing it was doing anything wrong, because it isn't capable of having the
thought required to have morality.
------
jfoutz
I'm not sure if Marconi or Tesla could detect WiMax signals. Of course, that's
only 100 years, no telling what a thousand or a million years of tech could
hide in the EM spectrum.
Also, stuff like nanopond makes me want to think self replication is easier
than he's making it out to be.
------
argongas
I think that finding extraterrestrial life would challenge many of the worlds
popular religions. Take Christianity for example. How will Christians
interpret Genesis after the discovery of life on other planets? Was Christ
sent to other planets as well?
~~~
run4yourlives
Most Christians who've actually thought of their faith, (admittedly, that's
few and far between) have most certainly already reconciled their beliefs with
this subject. Off the top of my head, I'd imagine a reconciled Christian would
say:
1\. Aliens are not in the Bible, but nothing says they don't exist. 2\. The
Bible is God's message to man, and surely the Aliens will have their own
message from the same God. (Actually, considering the similarities of Earth's
religions, wouldn't that be something?) I digress.
Point being, the search for God will continue forever. It's part of human
nature, and is ultimately an unknowable equation. Even with a thousand known
species, people will ask why we are, and that can often lead to "because you
were made to be".
I think it's foolish to expect a mass awakening on the discovery of ET. It's
not going to happen. You'll have a few that will alter their beliefs, a few
that will go wacko (thinking crazy white haired dude from Contact here) and
everyone else will just ponder it for a while and carry on.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lundum Dare 23 video streams - jwarzech
http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/11/live-ludum-dare-23-video-streams/
======
jwarzech
I know like me many of you enjoy notch's Lundum Dare streams, unfortunately he
isn't participating this weekend. I found a listing of other people that wil
be streaming their progress and hopefully we wil see some interesting ones!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Happiness Code: Cold, hard rationality - applecore
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-code.html?hn=1
======
unabst
Their method boils down to "think about what you're doing." It sounds simple
enough, but it's something that takes practice, and as someone who does
practice it, the lack of practice by others does become apparent. We tend to
shoot ourselves in the foot, and the control and focus we need to get things
done often is a simple matter of not shooting ourselves, as opposed to gaining
some new or special insight.
The reason why many end up on facebook or addicted to cigarettes or pile on
credit card debt or subscribed to Time Warner is not because we suck. It's
because there are seriously effective forces actively trying to get us to do
these things. Cigarettes maybe not so much as before, but it boils down to
them physically being addictive and their ads being effective etc. The
engineers at facebook aren't trying to help you not waste time. Their actively
seeking to keep you there. So in the end, we're not underestimating our own
inadequacy. We're underestimating our collective competency at getting people
to buy and do things we want. It's just that we find ourselves at the wrong
end of it too often.
And regarding happiness... At the end of the article there is a guy talking
about how he gets up an hour early to do the things he wants... That's pretty
much it. Happiness is also a skill because it takes practice, and the best way
to practice it is by making other people happy. Once we get good at
recognizing the simple causes of happiness, we can then do the same with
ourselves, almost as if we were just another person. And it does boil down to
the simple pleasures such as "making coffee and listening to Moby-Dick". There
really isn't much more to it.
So practice thinking about what you're doing, and practice making everyone
happy. Include "yourself" in "everyone". Brilliant!
~~~
prostoalex
> It's because there are seriously effective forces actively trying to get us
> to do these things.
You will probably enjoy "The Shallows" by Nicholas Carr if you're on the
receiving end of this or "Hooked" by Nir Eyal if you're on the production end
of this.
------
nefitty
Jesus, this sounds so complicated. Mental models of self-behavior are
effective ways to change those behaviors, but it sounds like these guys are
piling way too much on at once. My most effective behavior change models have
always been simple and almost singular. The one I'm exploring now is "Dopamine
in your brain correlates with motivation." Others have been "Plan ahead all at
once so you aren't tempted to procrastinate", "Measure it and visualize it to
drive yourself forward", etc. I've effectively changed my behavior in massive
ways by playing with simple models of myself. Constantly thinking of all those
cognitive biases and mental errors seems like it would exhaust me to the point
of paralysis.
~~~
chipsy
I agree with the sentiment. I don't think there's a solution in focusing your
rumination inwards - in my case it's a good way to feel more anxious.
But I do have a bit of learned rationality in me, in the form of "I know I
will commit error _x_ in the future, therefore..." So rather than try to
become a master of self-control, I make moves to arrange the world around me
so that there are safeguards, the error is insubstantial, and I end up on the
happy path automatically 90% of the time.
Similarly, I focus personal development on going "from strength to strength"
rather than on shoring up weak areas. If I start from the models I know and
keep extending them out more and more, I will get to the things I was
overlooking, eventually. One thing I am doing now is using Streak Club [0] to
develop a single habit over a long period of time, that I would ordinarily
excuse myself from.
[0] [https://streak.club/](https://streak.club/)
~~~
nefitty
Awesome. I've managed to get a consistent meditation habit built using
streaks. My longest chain was a little over 100 days straight!
------
SCAQTony
Is self evaluation of one's "modus operandi" really a recipe for happiness?
Not to be a smart ass, but throwing around confident statements about
rationality and charging people $3,900 just smells like "Garage Scientology."
~~~
pjscott
In general, it's a bad idea to form opinions of people from a news story about
them -- sometimes accurate news doesn't make for a good story. The CFAR folks
are... what's the opposite of cocksure? Epistemically cautious?
Here's an illustrative example. The New York Times article says this:
"[...] Afterward, participants are required to fill out an elaborate self-
report, in which they’re asked to assess their own personality traits and
behaviors. (A friend or family member is given a similar questionnaire to
confirm the accuracy of the applicant’s self-assessment.)"
What the article doesn't mention is that the reason they're giving such a
questionnaire to a friend or family-member is to cut down on self-report bias
in their one-year longitudinal study of whether or not they're getting real
results [1]. People can trick themselves into thinking that their lives have
changed for the better after spending time and money on it, and the ask-a-
friend thing is an attempt by the CFAR people to avoid getting a rosy-tinted
picture of their own efforts.
They could get away with being a lot less honest.
[1]
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/n2g/results_of_a_oneyear_longitudina...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/n2g/results_of_a_oneyear_longitudinal_study_of_cfar/)
------
SwellJoe
I befriended one of the founders of CFAR a few years ago when visiting NYC,
before she moved to Berkeley and founded CFAR. She genuinely practices what
she preaches, and was doing so long before CFAR. It's interestingly disarming
to meet someone who is so smart, but has no fear of seeming dumb by asking
lots of questions (including seemingly silly ones). It has stuck with me for
years, in fact, and it's been one of my personal goals ever since to stop
being such a damned know-it-all (mostly to myself) and ask more questions, and
more genuinely engage in conversation even when I think I'm smarter and know
more than the people I'm talking to.
I'm sure their approach to rationality would have a different effect for
different people, and the article covers the different ways people step out of
the comfort zones. But, my personal weakness, one that slows my own personal
growth and development and impacts my productivity and general happiness more
than most, is the "I am smart" armor that I built up as a kid (because I
wasn't all that good at other stuff, being smart was the identity I embraced).
It has all sorts of negative consequences. I don't ask questions when I
should, for fear of looking like I'm not smart and on top of everything. When
complex things are hard, it is more frustrating than it needs to be, because
most of the time I expect thinky things to not be hard (or at least, when in
school and comparing my own performance vs. effort to others in the class,
nothing was hard). A lot of it boils down to that "I am smart" belief, rather
than taking an approach that accepts that being smart is a process and not a
permanent condition.
Anyway, if hanging out casually for a couple of weeks with someone practicing
this stuff has had a years-long and mostly positive effect on me, I would
guess a formal program would be awesome.
------
dunkelheit
What I don't quite get is why discussions of rationality so often mention
threats from superhuman AIs. Is it just because that happens to be the
interest of the key figures of the movement?
~~~
lahwran
Ugh, there's a lot of argument about that in the cfar alumni community. Some
folks take it for granted (why??? Take things for granted about such an
uncertain subject???) that we're just doomed unless you Give Miri Money(tm).
Those folks tend to be pretty good about actually carrying out what is
reasonable behaviour in most other ways if only they were right about that one
thing - if it really were such a big deal, you'd want to not ignore it.
Meanwhile, another part of the alumni community actually understands the
theory behind ai and machine learning, and those folks end up in arguments
frequently with the first category about the topic.
The reason you hear about it is the first category is a pretty panicked and
hopeless group - for the people who actually believe yudkowsky's "recursive
algorithmic improvement" to be able to give large improvements, they generally
think that humanity "loses by default" if they do nothing. So they tend to be
very, very into recruiting. Thankfully they're not so nuts about it that
they'll never change their minds, the problem is it takes a lot of explaining
to get the theoretical basis for why the recursive self improvement thing
isn't actually as scary as they think it is. No, it's not going to take an
hour as soon as an ai is built, learning is hard, and humans are freakishly
good at it.
Computers will beat us at data efficiency eventually but it's gonna take a
while, and current machine learning is better at being data inefficient but
getting good results from the large amounts of data. And the best you can do
isn't good enough to make miri's monster - unbiased, maximally data-efficient
Bayesian inference doesn't actually fit in the universe in either a time or
memory sense if you try to build a full ai out of just that one thing. And
approximating it is, you guessed it, less data efficient.
~~~
someguydave
Okay so: 1.) preaches about new destroyer god 2.) saviors who possess the
secret knowledge of salvation 3.) give them money 4.) think correctly, not
incorrectly
Yep, it's a cult.
~~~
lahwran
Eh... Sort of? The two organisations together would form a cult, but the
community split I mention makes it a bit confusing. Overall, I agree that
miri's level-of-cult is too damn high.
~~~
someguydave
Interestingly, it's an ancient form of cult called Gnosticism. Gnostics teach
that the material world is evil ("gives rise to the AI"), and only through
hidden knowledge ("correct thinking") can one find the true path to spiritual
salvation ("become an immortal human")
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism)
------
RikNieu
Initially I was interested in reading a bit more about these exercises they
do(sounds like a form of mindfulness, to be honest) but seeing a fee of $3900
set off all kinds of alarm bells in my head.
Now I'm more interested in their marketing strategy with its obvious market
segmentation of premium + suggestiveness. I'm also curious as to how they
handle sales objections and how they approach up-selling.
~~~
philh
> I'm also curious as to how they handle sales objections
A friend of mine told them he was interested, but hesitant because it was a
lot of money. They asked him whether he knew anyone else who'd attended who he
could ask. As it happened, he had me. I told him something like: it's really
hard to know if this has had long term effects on me, I do think I'm happier
than before, I'm definitely glad I went. My friend decided to attend.
> and how they approach up-selling
I'm not sure what you mean by this? I can't think of anything they'd need to
upsell. I suppose, for the yearly reunion, they say "it's free to attend, but
it costs us $x per participant, and if you could pay that much, we'd greatly
appreciate it". You could count that as a form of upselling, and their
approach to it is "please".
~~~
RikNieu
> I'm not sure what you mean by this? I can't think of anything they'd need to
> upsell.
Ah, ok. So it's a one-time sale only? No other products or services that they
recommended to you afterwards?
May I ask you some other questions regarding their service, if you don't mind?
~~~
philh
Yeah, once only.
Feel free to ask. I attended in... April 2013, I think, and then helped out at
another of their workshops in I think November 2014. So I might not remember
things in much detail, and I don't know what changes have happened since, but
I'll answer the best I can.
Also, someone linked to this thread on the CFAR alumni mailing list, so others
might see your questions and be able to answer better.
(Actually, another caveat: for at least some of the questions you could
plausibly ask, the true-and-complete answer includes uncomfortable personal
details that I'd rather not share. So still feel free to ask, but I may elide
those details.)
~~~
RikNieu
Yeah, no , I won't ask anything too personal.
1\. Why the high cost? Was this addressed?
2\. Do you personally feel the cost was justified?
3\. What benefits/improvements specifically did you notice afterwards.
4\. And your friend? Did their life or attitude observably improve?
5\. How much of what you learned is freely available on the net? In other
words, is the course simply a curated set of information that is otherwise
available elsewhere?
6\. Do you still receive regular communications from CFAR, and if so, what do
these communications consist of?
7.(last one!) Regarding the uncomfortable personal questions, was this
information that CFAR recorded and archived?
Thanks!
~~~
philh
1\. It costs a lot to run. They have to rent out space, get meals, snacks,
stationary. The staff:attendee ratio is pretty high. And they need to meet
their general operating costs - office space and staff - not just for the
workshops but as an organization. They've written about their finances:
[http://lesswrong.com/lw/n39/why_cfar_the_view_from_2015/#fin...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/n39/why_cfar_the_view_from_2015/#finances)
(you might also find the rest of that interesting).
2\. Justified for them to charge, certainly. Worthwhile for me to pay, I think
so.
3\. Difficult to say, partly because I don't have strong memories of what I
was like before attending. I think that post-CFAR, I'm generally happier, more
likely to try new things, better at making phone calls. I expect other changes
too. But I can't say that these are definitely attributed to CFAR.
It's also difficult because I don't often explicitly use the techniques they
teach, but that doesn't mean I don't use them. E.g. about six months ago I
went mostly-vegetarian. I realized that for the most part, I'm just as happy
without meat as with it, but there are exceptions. So I let myself have those
exceptions, and get almost all the benefits of vegetarianism with few of the
costs. This was a form of goal factoring, and I don't know if I would have
done it without CFAR. But I didn't sit down and think "okay, I'm going to goal
factor this".
4\. I'm not sure. This was too long ago, and I don't think I saw him super-
often around that time period.
5\. I suspect most of the specific techniques can be found elsewhere in one
form or another. They run tests to try to find the best way to teach the
techniques. There's also value in curation, and in having someone there to
help dubug and adapt to circumstances. ("You suggest committing to a specific
time to do this, but I'm reluctant because my social life is pretty
unpredictable." "Sure, maybe try picking a time, but giving yourself
permission to change it, maybe up to three times.")
But what they're trying to teach isn't really techniques. This won't do it
justice, but it's closer to: they're trying to teach the mindset that lets you
generate the techniques. That lets you say, "okay, here's a problem. Let's try
to solve it. Is this solution going to work? No. Okay, what could I do that
would actually work?" and to come up with answers.
I'm not aware of any other resources trying to teach that.
6\. They have an alumni mailing list, but CFAR doesn't post to it much as an
organization. They sometimes ask for volunteers to help out at workshops, or
if someone can help them scope out venues, or for beta testers for classes
they're working on. Outside that, I don't receive anything from them (except
automated thank-you emails when I donate).
7\. Not at all. Some of it came up during conversations, either naturally or
deliberately as something I chose for comfort zone expansion. There was also a
session of "againstness training", which was even more optional than
everything else, in which Valentine deliberately asked me uncomfortable
questions so I could practice being in a super-uncomfortable state.
When I said about personal stuff, I just meant that - for example, if one
thing I'd got from CFAR had been "I realized I could come out to my closest
friends, but probably not my family", then I wasn't going to make that public
knowledge. It wasn't to do with CFAR itself.
~~~
RikNieu
Cool, thanks for the reply
------
hotcool
Cold hard rationality also means being honest with ourselves. The stories we
tell ourselves may not be true, and this incongruity can cause a lot of harm:
[https://medium.com/@hypnobuddha/be-honest-are-you-lying-
to-y...](https://medium.com/@hypnobuddha/be-honest-are-you-lying-to-
yourself-727d86116e9b#.bn77hn4ln)
------
Takizawa
Their videos are worth checking out.
[http://rationality.org/videos/](http://rationality.org/videos/)
That said, I am not sure it is rationale to pay $3,900 for four days of
training. At least give me a celebrity like Tony Robbins.
~~~
lahwran
As someone who went, I agree. I think most people who do it right now consider
the high price to be a donation to help them scale, rather than an actual
product-for-money trade. I'd pay $500, maybe, if I thought the marginal
benefit they'd get from my going was negligible. That's how much conferences
of that length usually cost, anyway. Also, it's totally right that the
techniques aren't exactly the point - you don't go to a tech conference
because you can't read about the things presented there elsewhere, you go
because you won't focus enough on them. But it's definitely not 4k of value
from the workshop, it's 3.5k of giving them momentum to refine and scale the
org, and .5k of actual experience.
------
tim333
There was an earlier discussion of the the Center for Applied Rationality (the
company discussed rather than the NYT article) here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4751584](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4751584)
------
dschiptsov
How about children's warm, openhearted instinctivity?)
Also scientific psychology (opposite of popular meme jogging) tells us that
pure rationality is a myth - fictional concept of the mind. We are driven and
motivated by hardwired, non-verbal heuristics , such as looks, status, health
and beauty, which could be defined, at least for living beings, as youth +
health/good genes markers (lack of any age or sickness related deformities).
Is there any estimation what percent of GDP and personal wealth has been spent
amually on booze, hookers and status items? Including all the money spent to
impress potential mates?)
The more appropriate meme instead of "rationality" would be "understanding"
(and Joy instead of happiness) - I do, more or less, understand "how it
works", so I could enjoy it occasionally, not too often to become a mere numb
consumer. Read about Dorian Gray also.)
------
smaddox
HPMOR was just referenced in a NY Times article. Awesome.
------
yarou
The tl;dr version of this is that "Applied Rationality" is a New Age cult,
whose God is "Rationality" and whose Devil is human nature, rather than
watered down Eastern mysticism.
The creepy part is how they expect you to live together and unquestionably
repeat the mantras ("techniques"). It reeks of dianetics and other bullshit
that claims to be a cure-all for all of your problems.
~~~
p4wnc6
This is a bit disingenuous but not completely. I think a comparable service
would be outdoor wilderness survival training, like BOSS in Boulder. Part of
what makes it effective is that you are dislodged from an environment in which
you can comfortably cling to the heuristics you already use to get by. In the
new environment, you have to adjust all your norms and it provides more of a
blank slate, cognitively, on which to imprint the lessons.
The CFAR stuff is like this too, but rather than being an outdoor wilderness
survival school, it's just a survival school. It's even weirder than what it
would take to survive in the wilderness, because the space of mental tools is
so much more vast than the space of physical tools tailored to one type of
environment.
I would guess that many CFAR employees would like their service to feel more
like a "boot camp" sort of thing -- a transformative experience in which the
intensity of learning and the bandwidth demanded are extremely high compared
with what that intensity and bandwidth will be back in regular life. But I
also think they don't want it to feel like an indoctrination, and would want
to preserve and even enhance someone's ability to be skeptical, even about
CFAR itself.
In that sense, promoting self skepticism, CFAR is very different than a cult,
and just because it shares some superficial aspects of a cult doesn't mean
it's fair to make that comparison.
But, but, I still do agree with you that CFAR has work to do to prove that
they are not just a marketing engine fleecing bored rich people who fancy
themselves seeming like philosopher savants or some shit. Merely having
verifiably good, open content, like the LessWrong sequences, is not enough.
They further have to show that they are willing to change, and verify that
they aren't just a certain kind of boutique fraternity.
I for one would really welcome hearing ideas about alternative ways to teach
rationality. For example, I recently read the science fiction book _The Black
Cloud_ by Fred Hoyle, and I was particularly interested in a part of the book
where humans communicate with a far more intelligent being. Hoyle's writing is
fun and all, but what I really thought was cool was the idea of a human (Hoyle
himself) trying to emulate a being far smarter than him, and how believably he
did this. But of course, on closer inspection, we should expect that Hoyle's
portrayal would not be good enough, or else such superior intellect would be
in our grasp merely by imagining how it should sound.
I think I got more out of reading that fiction book, in terms of thinking
about how to think better, than I did out of vast swaths of LessWrong. Maybe
that says more about me than anything else, but it is a data point that maybe
there are all kinds of ways to elucidate the useful tools of rationalism, and
the format of CFAR might not even be close to optimal unless your goal is to
vend a status merit badge to a certain set of semi-wealthy people.
~~~
TheOtherHobbes
The classic cult tell is the fact that if you strip out all the claims to
spiritual and moral wisdom, cults exist to service the leadership with money,
narcissistic strokes and a sense of authority, sexual opportunities, and free
labour. (I have a non-scientific theory that this is how religions propagate.
They're such an effective way to provide all of the above that whatever the
dogma, the social dynamics are just too attractive for weaker individuals to
ignore.)
Aside from money, it's hard to see how that applies here. (If Yudkowsky was
running this personally I'd definitely be concerned.)
But while there are obvious culty elements here, there doesn't seem to be a
funnel which uses introductory bootcamps/workshops to find the most
suggestible converts so it can sell them more and more expensive follow-ons.
There also isn't any sense that there's a "reward" scheme where loyal
followers are allowed into an inner circle - from which they can publicly
purged if they misbehave.
It looks more like there are some interesting brain hacks on offer, packaged
into a format that's maybe too intense to be ideal.
~~~
p4wnc6
By this definition I would argue that most SF _start-ups_ are more similar to
cults than CFAR is -- though as I said in my comment above, I do agree that
CFAR hasn't conclusively proved yet that this is more than just a sort of
Space Camp for bored rich people of a particular variety.
~~~
lahwran
oh my god yes. I'm frequently creeped out by how much my various employers
have wanted me to be TOTALLY AND ENTIRELY on board with their mission. like, I
like making awesome software, and I like customers enjoying it, but plz no I
do not want to devote my life to x thing just because it's both fun and gives
me money. If I'm going to devote my life to anything, it's going to be doing
something like building computational models of the genome or something.
------
proksoup
You do what you want to do. Ask yourself what you want to do, and why you want
to do it.
------
throwaway999888
What other approach do expect from a place/culture like that.
~~~
dang
Not cool. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
~~~
bigdubs
Judging by the user name I doubt we'll be seeing this person again.
edit: Just kidding they have 201 karma.
~~~
throwaway999888
I'm not great at naming.
------
johnzabroski
Too much drugs from Haight Ashbury...
~~~
dang
Generalizations about Silicon Valley are a tedious media game; please let's
not make it worse.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
iPhone is swimming in the Indian Ocean waiting to be rescued - carlosvega
https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/f2mo2r/my_brothers_iphone_is_swimming_the_indian_ocean/
======
smcleod
It’s been found by a fisherman (fisherperson?) apparently:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/f2mo2r/my_brothers_iph...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/f2mo2r/my_brothers_iphone_is_swimming_the_indian_ocean/fhew1rw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Kevin Rose: Digg Turned Down $80 Million Acquisition Offer - thiele
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/kevin_rose_at_disrupt.php
======
danilocampos
Digg is boned. Product is at a dead end and users are losing interest in the
community.
Meanwhile, they're funded up their ears. $40 million? For what? It's a bunch
of user-submitted links and discussions. You need a couple of developers, a
sysadmin, a designer, some sales guys. Am I missing any other roles?
100 employees for such a simple product is insane to me. I couldn't believe
they topped out at that number. I am biased – I prefer small, lean teams over
bloat, but come on, anyone can see this.
And now, yeah, they're boned. You're not going to get any significant multiple
of $40 million out of that business. Boy, the investors would have been
fortunate to get their money back period.
I guess that's just how the VC game is played.
~~~
mey
I'd love to see
* Number of Employees
* Monthly Active Users
* Server Operating Costs
* Monthly Revenue
for
* Reddit
* Fark
* Slashdot
* Digg
I'd assume the other sites would bury Digg (no pun intended) on at least
several of those fronts.
~~~
SwellJoe
reddit has more daily pageviews than digg by a few tens of millions,
reportedly. So, their 6(?) person team is outperforming 100+ digg employees in
the most important metric (revenue _might_ be more important, but I'm not so
sure...if I could pick a site to own, I'd choose the one that is bigger,
growing faster, and has _dramatically_ lower expenses).
~~~
bapadna
why are pageviews more important than visits, unique visitors or revenue?
~~~
SwellJoe
User engagement. A visitor that spends hours on the site each day, producing
content in the form of discussion, is worth a lot more than a visitor that
drops in for two minutes in order to spew some spam into the queue, and then
leave. I don't think there's any question that the reddit community is more
engaged than the digg community...a brief perusal of the comments at both
sites will quickly eliminate any doubt.
As for revenue, I said that more pageviews and much faster growth from a much
leaner organization was better. There were several variables in my statements.
Besides, it is not a small difference in pageviews. It's ~40%! Which pretty
much certainly equates to more visits and more unique visitors than digg.
No matter how you slice it, though, digg is a 100+ person operation that is
generating less value to consumers than a 6 person operation. Value to
consumers is a reasonable proxy for the kind of revenue you can generate from
a site. They just haven't found the formula for monetizing it yet. It doesn't
mean the value isn't there.
~~~
points
I'd bet money that a Digg user is far more monetizable than a Reddit user.
So I'd say Revenue is the best metric to compare, but I'm skeptical Reddit
will ever make much money - their users are spending all their cash on weed.
------
aresant
"Rose wouldn't go into details, but said that he was getting "burned out"
Nail in the coffin statement there, uncommitted leadership during crisis mode
is when all is lost.
I don't blame Rose from being burned out, bringing him back was more terrible
decision making from board.
~~~
troymc
Amber MacArthur and Sarah Lane interviewed Kevin Rose during net@night for
August 11, and he said he misses the days when Digg was small and they could
come up with an idea, and have it live by that night. Now Digg has 40-50 full-
time engineers, two data centers, and hundreds of servers.
Rose: "It's a big operation. To be honest it's bigger than I'm comfortable
with... and I'm very excited to hire a new CEO very soon ... I'm not cut out
to be a CEO of this size of company."
Inspired by 37signals, he wants his next company to be a small group of 10-15
people "based out of Portland or something... Chillin' in the woods, drinking
tea, chopping wood..."
Sarah Lane: "Are you still on that Portland thing? ... I've been hearing about
that for 10 years."
<http://twit.tv/natn163>
~~~
pyre
I'm in Portland, and I don't think that "chillin in the woods, driking tea,
chopping wood" accurately describes it.
~~~
cullenking
Then what else is there? Chillin in a garage, drinkin PBR and working on a
fixie?
I think the better things to do here in Portland definitely involve things
like chilling in the woods and chopping wood.
~~~
pkghost
Umm, hello? Modest Mouse? Meth?
// nostalgic Portland ex-pat
~~~
pyre
PDX Ignite, PDX Hack-a-thon, OSBridge, OSCon, etc
Not to mention all of the bicycling stuff that goes on. Being a vegan, there
is an awesome vegan community here, with a potluck almost every weekend.
For example:
1\. Portland Vegan Iron Chef, for example, went from an idea to an event with
a venue that was too small for the number of people that wanted to attend
within a matter of a couple of months. SupremeMasterTV even showed up to film
it -- not that they are 'mainstream' or anything, but it wasn't just a couple
of random people in their garage either.
2\. Vegan Convergence went from just an idea that someone was kicking around
(the idea that there were a ton of vegans in Portland that he didn't even know
-- 'convergence' as in bringing all of the different groups together to expand
social circles) to an event in the part w/ 150+ people responding as attending
on Facebook (dunno how many actually showed up; there were a lot of people,
but people tend to come and go at various times at these types of events).
I guess it just depends on the circles that you are in... I'm sure there are
some people that describe <insert name of city> as 'sitting in the garage,
drinkin some beer' because that's all they do.
~~~
cullenking
I am a big cyclist (it's my business), and I don't know what other large
cities are like, but Portland's bike scene is a disaster. I can't believe the
animosity that's been fostered between drivers and bikers, but I went from
easily doing 100 miles a week to not wanting to ever get on my bike in about
two months. At least a quarter the rides I do involve pretty
frightening/stressful situations like being swerved/swore/honked at. Call me
thin skinned, but damn these people are nuts.
Can't attest to the vegan thing - I am a reformed vegetarian who enjoys a
tasty 5th quadrant burger here and there :) Oh, there we go, the beer! I knew
I was forgetting my favorite thing about Portland.
~~~
pyre
That may be, but coming from Toronto, Ontario, there are a _lot_ of cycling
events/rides/etc. It's totally awesome once a year, they shut down the bridges
for cyclists (even the I-5 bridge).
Last summer (2009), I was biking a 15 mile round-trip to work, and I wasn't
really running into issues, but I was also riding very defensively.
[I will admit that I wasn't a cyclist in Toronto, but -- as I understand it --
it is very bike-hostile (though there are bike couriers). If you think that
the west-coast drivers in Portland are crazy, don't move to the east-coast...]
------
RBr
I'm shocked that the Digg board turned down $80 Million. Unless it was an
overly complicated deal, that sounds like a lot more then it was / is worth.
The real value in Digg was always the unpaid community that powered it.
Programming, I.P. and tangible assets are worth a fraction of what Digg is
worth. In essence, someone offered $80m for the opportunity to put their hands
on the steering wheel of the once powerful group of people who contributed,
dugg and evangelized everything Kevin and crew did.
As Digg has proven, communities are fickle and without proper management,
motivation and reward, they fail. In retrospect, neither the Digg community
nor the assets it has are worth that much money. However, with a carefully
crafted goal, properly motivated community and importantly a plan that
includes a way to monetize the community, community based services could very
well be worth $80 Million or more.
~~~
mikeryan
According to crunchbase digg has taken $40M in funding. A multiple of less
then 2 on the investment doesn't seem to be the kind of deals to get VC's
excited.
At the time there was really no reason to not try to hold out for an extra
$40M or so.
Of course Kevin wanted to take it he's walking away with a significant amount
of that $80M in his pocket.
Heh it makes the Reddit deal ($100k in and sold for $20M) look effing
brilliant - and with the uptick in traffic its getting from digg v4 its making
that look like the much smarter play.
~~~
points
Agreed @ Reddit. Maybe a winning formula.
1. Find a startup in a new area that is over funded (digg)
2. Copy it, on the cheap.
3. Get bought for a "cheap" price compared with what the
over funded startup would request.
~~~
pkaler
It wouldn't work in this case. Digg did a Round C in 2008 of $28.7m. That's
when they were over funded.
Reddit was founded in 2005. Digg was founded in 2004 and did a Round A at a
reasonable $2.8m in late 2005. <http://www.crunchbase.com/company/digg>
<http://www.crunchbase.com/company/reddit>
The only way your plan would work in this case is if you have a crystal ball
in 2005.
Basically, your competitor bets after the flop and you're planning on playing
the hand while short stacked.
And on the flip side you may end up being the Jaiku or Pownce to someone
else's Twitter.
~~~
ahi
Bad example. Jaiku was bought by Google. Twitter keeps getting VC money, but
hasn't gone liquid/profitable yet.
------
jdp23
with good investors, entrepreneurs usually have a lot of leverage in
sitautions like this as long as the board sees them as crucial to the
company's success going forward. so i wonder how much kevin pushed it.
my 1990s startup got an early acquisition offer for $30M when their was only
$400K in; the VC left it up to us, and we decided we wanted to build a
company. a few years later we hit the wall and the board could have forced us
to take a lowball offer but we decided to see it through and managed to turn
things around. in the end with $16M invested, we sold to Microsoft for around
$60M ... the investors were split, but the executive staff (including me)
wanted to do the deal so after some discussion we did. we had great investors,
of course; not sure what digg's board is like.
~~~
aaronbrethorst
This was PREfix, right? (Hi Jon, haven't seen you in a while :)
~~~
jdp23
yep, it was -- good to see you too, Aaron, and apologies for the belated
response!
------
DevX101
A lot of people are here laughing at digg for turning this down, but hindsight
is 20-20.
Zuckerberg turned down $1Billion from Yahoo, and at least on paper is worth an
order of magnitude more now.
At the time, digg was a leader in a new take on publishing distribution. If
executed well, it could have very feasibly been worth more than $80M.
~~~
gnaritas
> Zuckerberg turned down $1Billion from Yahoo, and at least on paper is worth
> an order of magnitude more now.
Just because you won the lottery doesn't mean it wasn't stupid to not take the
cash. Zuck should have took the billion as a first time entrepreneur. It was
the better bet. Playing against the odds might be exciting, and you might even
win, but it's still not smart.
~~~
rewind
Depends whether or not you believe Zuckerberg genuinely wanted to build a
world-changing business. If that's his main goal (and the more I hear him
talk, the more I start to believe it), and he genuinely believes he can do it,
then taking the money isn't necessarily what's most important to him. I read a
lot about entrepreneurs getting shit on for not swinging for the fences, but
then they get shit if they turn down a billion dollar offer when they only see
that as a triple.
It remains to see how this all plays out, but when you turn down a billion
dollars, I think there's a good chance you're doing it for more than the
money.
~~~
gnaritas
Still doesn't matter. Your first shot out of the gate, you take the money
because it enables you get money out of the way. Everyone needs money. You
swing for the fences the second time out, after you've got cash in the bank
and don't need the money. That's the smart thing to do, play the odds. Zuck
went against the odds, that wasn't smart, it was immature; he seems to have
beat the odds so it worked out, but it was much more likely to go the other
way, and it still could. Something could wipe out Facebook just like Facebook
wiped out MySpace.
~~~
neilk
I have a feeling Zuckerberg is not going to have to worry about money no
matter what happens. Even in 2007 he was clearly headed for multimillionaire
status.
I don't know him personally but at the time he reputedly lived on a mattress
in an empty room in Palo Alto. Maybe he's the kind of guy that values winning
more than the accoutrements of success.
~~~
gnaritas
If facebook hadn't taken off, I doubt anyone here would know who Zuckerberg
was. He rode a fad to fame and capitalized on it and made many a blunder along
the way. He's no different than Kevin Rose and Digg. Facebook's popularity
will wane, people will abandon it; many people already are in the sense that
they don't check it much anymore. Something else will come along and the crowd
will have a new toy.
~~~
dillydally
In what universe is Facebook a fad? There are billion-dollar companies built
on their platform, ferchrissakes!
~~~
gnaritas
Platform, lol. The site was better before the platform enabled apps. The
entire platform is faddish, it's popular because it's popular and everyone
else is doing it; until they aren't, then you stop. There are billion dollar
industries that are entirely based on fads, movies, music, games, or fashion
for example. The amount of money has no bearing on whether something is
faddish. For most, facebook is entertainment, the entertainment industry in
all its forms is all about fads and popularity.
~~~
dillydally
Every company is around until it isn't. Blockbuster just declared bankruptcy
-- does that make Blockbuster a fad?
Facebook is six years old. 500MM people use it every month. They are
profitable and do over $1Bn in revenue. They have a platform, on top of which
there is at least one $1Bn company (Zynga).
Groupon, also a $1Bn company, owes its success in large part to Facebook's ad
platform.
Facebook is now moving into location and online payments. They will compete
with PayPal, another $1Bn company (before being acquired by eBay).
Zynga is PayPal's second largest merchant, after eBay itself. Through Facebook
credits, Facebook will be taking 30% of each of those transactions. They are
building a database of credit card numbers to do it.
Tencent QQ, a Chinese social network with gaming elements -- most of the
popular genres on Facebook were taken from popular Chinese social games, e.g.,
the farming genre -- is 15 years old and did over $1Bn in revenue last year.
Tencent's IM product has 610MM monthly active users and 63.2MM people with
subscription accounts.
[http://www.tencent.com/en-
us/content/ir/fs/attachments/inves...](http://www.tencent.com/en-
us/content/ir/fs/attachments/investorintro.pdf)
When does this stuff stop becoming a fad?
Sure, fine, there's some universe in which Facebook vanishes tomorrow. The
demand is still there. Social networking is here to stay.
The only way Facebook will fall behind is if they slow down and let someone
else pass them, but given their history of aggressive and forward-thinking
innovation, that seems unlikely for at least the next 5 years and/or until
Zuckerberg stops caring.
And "it's popular because everyone else is doing it" -- you just described
every business built on top of network effects. Craigslist is popular because
everyone is using it. Does that make Craigslist a fad? eBay? VRBO? Etsy?
YouTube? HN?
Pet rocks were a fad. Slap bracelets were a fad. Snuggies are a fad.
<http://fmylife.com> is a fad.
Do you really think Facebook is that? Really?
I also notice that you didn't cite a single piece of data. Do you have any to
support your argument, or is it just your "intuition?"
~~~
gnaritas
I didn't say Facebook was going away, or that it wasn't big business, nor did
I say Facebook is a fad. I said he rode a fad to fame, that means it was a fad
and then it became something tons of people use as it fleshed itself out over
the years. If you don't agree, then don't, I don't care; don't get all bent
out of shape about it like I insulted your mother or something. I don't need
to quote sources to state my opinion.
~~~
adrianwaj
Facebook's as much as a fad as photo-sharing, sending people messages and
joining a discussion forum. Zuck originally said he wanted the relationships
on it to reflect real life. The only thing faddish about it, is people's
willingness to share their lives on it, and that's what Zuck wants to change,
he wants sharing and exposing oneself to be normal, after all, for him it's
all lulz. It's the over-exposing that is a fad as people start to want
privacy.
When it first came out, I thought this is just like a friggin Xoops
installation customized for college students (but custom built, and carefully
sold to the right people). Also, a lot of Web 2.0 ideas were just like Xoops
CMS modules (or WP plugins) but scaled out and adapted for mass website usage.
The Facebook platform is just like Xoops module deployment that users can
customize for themselves rather than the webmaster.
Theoretically, the only thing that could take out Facebook or come close,
would be some type of cross-language, cross-server middleware layer, that
webmasters could use that would simplify and improve web development, and give
broad social, ecommerce, presence and whatever other features are, or will
start to be in common. FB is in the best position to do that, and that's what
I expect to see going forward: it'll have to create standards and protocols
(an open source FB server?) and release those into the community.
------
fletchowns
This article on digg claims it has 293 comments:
[http://digg.com/news/technology/digg_redesign_tanks_traffic_...](http://digg.com/news/technology/digg_redesign_tanks_traffic_down_26)
After clicking "Load More" a couple times until it says there are no more
comments to load, $(".comment-body").length in the firebug console says there
are 104 comments. Am I missing something here or are they lying about comment
counts to make the site seem more active than it actually is?
~~~
thinkalone
Did you count the replies and hidden comments?
~~~
trustfundbaby
You needed to click load more for the comments right? Stands to reason that
you'd probably have to do the same thing for hidden comments etc.
~~~
fletchowns
So try it and prove me wrong. As I said before, that jQuery selector appears
to be counting all the comments, including the hidden ones.
~~~
trustfundbaby
I hate to break it to you ... but the burden of proof is on you :D
------
pigbucket
Discussion about whether the board should have accepted the offer would
benefit from knowing when it was made. In Digg's "heyday" is a bit vague. 80m
is a biggish bird in the hand but 20m of that was earn out and given that
Google were reportedly on the verge of a 200m offer in 2008, it's not clear
that whoever thought 80m was lowball was altogether insane.
------
dchs
I think the real story here is that he is "burned out" at Digg but excited by
his angel investing. Where might that lead?
------
TamDenholm
I bet the digg board are regretting the decision since the launch of v4.
~~~
rishi
The board probably wasn't making any money with a $80M offer. It is a top 100
site... why not go for it? They could have built a ton of other revenue
models... and they still can. They just need to start believing in it
themselves.
------
code_duck
This reminds me of Yahoo on one hand (should have taken the money before they
started tanking!) and Etsy on the other hand (70 employees was already far too
many, next they went on a VC fueled hiring spree and now have about 130). In
another similar move, Etsy recently brought back their old CEO/founder, to the
horror of many members who were around for the first three years.
------
kqr2
Any estimates on the current valuation?
~~~
mahmud
Not to start a bidding war, but I am willing pay $250 for the domain.
------
Mrdev4
So i guess the BW cover was bullshit.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BusinessWeek_cover_14_Aug_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BusinessWeek_cover_14_Aug_2006.png)
------
noodle
can't say i'd blame him, in digg's heyday, it was likely worth a good bit
more.
~~~
wriq
"While he was personally willing to take this offer, the Digg board decided to
turn it down." He wanted to accept it.
~~~
bond
They had $40million invested so i guess that's a little low to accept...
On the other hand this raises some questions for founders on getting funding
and what to expect down the road...
------
wiks
they need to work more on their own concept and should stop being inspired
from reddit.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: are non-compete agreements just for suckers? - j_baker
I hear of a lot of people who are asked to sign non-compete agreements successfully requesting to have them taken out without too much argument. Is this a common thing? Are there that many companies out there that will put them in the contract hoping that employees won't notice?
======
icey
In the very few places that I've had to deal with a non-compete agreement,
I've always been able to get amendments made to the contract that limits the
specificity to a more acceptable level. Companies just want to try to protect
their property as much as possible.
The conventional wisdom appears to be that non-compete agreements are largely
unenforceable, however I'd be careful in using that assumption: No company
wants to deal with someone if they feel that person has no regard for
contractual agreements to begin with.
~~~
Tangurena
The enforceability of a non-compete depends solely on the state involved.
States like OH and TX will enforce them vigorously (OH is so bad that I would
never move to that state, nor work there). States like CA will reject them
(except for sale of businesses). This is why MS fought tooth and nail for the
jurisdiction of the folks who quit to work for Google to be in WA (MS' home) -
where they are mostly enforceable vs CA (Google's home) - where they are not
worth the paper they are written on.
If it weren't so difficult to get a ballot initiative going (I ran for
election last year, and I had to learn a lot about what it takes to get on the
ballot and also getting elected - which I didn't get), this is one of my pet
peeves. I'd write it so that if you want to enforce a non-compete against a CO
resident, then you pay their salary for the duration of the non-compete - even
if the non-compete requires jurisdiction elsewhere.
~~~
j_baker
Actually, that's not necessarily the case in Texas. Enforcement is growing
stronger, but Texas courts are traditionally pretty reluctant to enforce non-
compete agreements.
Nowadays, they are enforceable, but there are lots of restrictions:
<http://www.hersh-law.com/lawyer-attorney-1078665.html>
It's a bit surprising, but Texas can be a rather employee and consumer-
friendly state in a lot of respects. Granted, it's a pretty backwards state in
most other respects.
------
pg
They're the norm in tech companies. I don't think they're really necessary for
most employees. But few investors would invest in a startup whose founders
hadn't signed noncompetes. Otherwise they'd be investing in air. All the
founders could leave and start a new company doing the same thing.
~~~
eli
Yup, this is exactly it. When shopping the company to investors or as a
potential acquisition, Non-Compete/NDAs are an item on the due diligence
checklist.
------
sharpn
In my experience (IANAL etc.): If you're being hired solely for your expertise
&/or experience, there should not be a non-compete clause in your contract. If
you are expecting to some extent to be trained in an emerging field then a
non-compete clause _may_ be justified. Juristiction plays it's part too - I've
'agreed' to such a clause in the past knowing that it was unenforcable as
restraint-of-trade under EU legislation.
------
GiraffeNecktie
As far as I know, they're not enforceable (at least not in Canada). I would
take it as a warning sign that the company has some d*ckhead lawyers running
around without adult supervision.
~~~
j_baker
In the best case scenario, that sounds like the case. Worst case scenario:
they're trying to scare you into staying with them for longer than you would
normally. And _that_ IMO makes them scum.
------
modoc
I've had every one of my employment or contracting agreements changed. I
usually don't strike them completely, I usually modify them to something
limited and reasonable. I won't steal inside info. I won't go to work for one
of the clients whose project I worked on, etc... Never had a problem as long
as I was willing to stand my ground.
------
jackowayed
It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
I had to sign one for my job this summer (small tech consulting firm that's
now doing a couple products and less consulting), but it was pretty limited.
It just said that I wouldn't work in the couple of pretty-specific fields that
my company's products are in for the next year.
One nice thing about the one they gave me was that they had a clause saying
that it did not in any way prevent me from using the programming knowledge
that I'm gaining, just the specific knowledge about the fields the products
are in.
Now, I wouldn't be comfortable of signing one much longer than a year. A lot
can change in say, 5 years. But 1 year so that you can't steal their ideas or
have an unfair advantage in competing with them because you know their plans
is fairly reasonable.
------
indiejade
Here's a good article:
<http://mixergy.com/why-i-wont-sign-your-nda/>
While I know a non-compete isn't an NDA, the reasons outlined in the article
make a lot of sense and could be applied to reasons to not sign a non-compete.
Particularly:
_Reason #1: It puts all the obligation on me and none on you_
H&R Block is infamous for attempting to bust people for breaking non-compete
agreements. Yet, it has been in the news recently that H&R Block is being
investigated for their practices in forcing employees to sign non-competes.
~~~
j_baker
Interesting. I recall reading that Google, MS, and Apple were in hot water
over that kind of thing. But I didn't realize H&R Block was in trouble too!
------
olefoo
They are difficult to enforce in many jurisdictions; and to be enforceable at
all they usually have to be limited in scope. That said, yes, they are for
suckers, it's a sucker move to ask for one, and a sucker move to accept one.
------
callmeed
In some states, Calif included, they are practically unenforceable (except for
perhaps the sale of a business).
------
tjmc
They are mostly unenforceable here in Australia but I've still seen them in a
few contracts and never agree to them. Far more common are clauses that
prohibit overt poaching of clients or staff to a new venture which is more
reasonable IMHO.
------
bkbleikamp
I don't think they're enforceable in CA.
------
known
I think NDA is for Paranoids.
~~~
j_baker
I think you mean non-compete agreement instead of NDA? They _are_ two
different things. :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rutgers Graduate Student Finds New Prime-Generating Formula - jlhamilton
http://recursed.blogspot.com/2008/07/rutgers-graduate-student-finds-new.html
======
programnature
The summer school where this was conjectured was
[http://www.wolframscience.com/summerschool/2003/participants...](http://www.wolframscience.com/summerschool/2003/participants/)
As one of the "live experiments" Stephen Wolfram decided to try to find the
minimal recursive functions involving arithmetic type operations that produce
complex behavior. The article glosses over this, but no one set out to find a
function that produced only primes; it just so happened that when enumerating
these minimal functions this one was discovered to have a peculiar regularity.
By the way, if you ever discover an efficient way to generate primes, you have
a shot at claiming a 100k prize (<http://www.eff.org/awards/coop>)
------
henning
Off-topic, but it's interesting how he's reimplemented a substantial fraction
of Haskell's Prelude (base library) in Mathematica, probably without knowing
it: <http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~erowland/programs/ListTricks.m>.
------
huhtenberg
The formula (or rather the algorithm) is interesting, but rather impractical.
First million of iterations generate only 36 primes, and these are not even
sequential:
3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 47, 53,
101, 127, 163, 199, 233, 421, 443, 467, 577, 941,
1889, 3779, 7559, 15131, 30323, 60647, 121403,
242807, 486041, 972533, 1945649, 3891467, 7783541
------
carterschonwald
the caveat being that the complexity of computing the formula is at best on
the order of preexisting techniques, so nifty deep math, but nothing new from
a computational point of view (barring more insight happening)
~~~
DaniFong
Since it's a new approach, it's more likely to lead to a better eventual
complexity than some technique that's already been milked for all it's worth.
Stay upstream.
~~~
Tichy
I just looked at the article again (blog article, not maths), and I must admit
the gcd in the equation does not make it seem so exciting. gcd seems
algorithmically very close to other algorithms for computing primes.
On the other hand, playing around with it would probably be fun :-/
------
lg
Man, I went to Rutgers, but it sounds like I picked the wrong major. One of my
CS TA's literally did not know what the head and tail of a list are (an
American, by the by). And to think, math was just across the hall..
~~~
yummyfajitas
I was an RU math TA. Most of us are not as smart as Eric.
~~~
andreyf
Might be, but the two departments are very different in quality also, at least
on the undergrad level (I majored in Math/CS at Rutgers).
This is mostly due to the different nature of the subjects, though - CS
enrollment fluctuates hugely with tech fashions, and includes people looking
to get ahead in their job, people learning "how computers work", etc. Math, on
the other hand, can stay to a more strictly academic curriculum, especially
with their honors track.
I forget where I read this (I think something of Alan Kay's), but I like the
thought that CS will go the path of biology, on the undergrad level, by
breaking up into several fields. Just as "pure" biology majors are separate
from the school of pharmacy, "pure" CS majors needs a different focus than
future network technicians and Blub programmers.
~~~
turkishrevenge
It really depends. The theory classes are there, you just have to take them.
My Discrete II & Algorithmic Analysis class with Professor Kalantari was great
and and extremely informative. Other classes that I thought were really
interesting, like Compilers and Formal Language and Automata theory sadly only
had a few students enrolled. I guess theoretical classes are considered
boring, although I guess I could see why others think that when compared to
Computer Graphics or something that seems a little more hands on. Now that I'm
out though, I do regret not going down the Math/CS route at Rutgers.
~~~
lg
Those "unpopular" classes like Formal Languages might not be so unpopular if
serious profs taught them, instead of the usual lazy, disorganized people who
outsource teaching to the TA's. Maybe some people make a point of avoiding the
hard profs, but _more_ people avoid the terrible ones.
------
Tichy
I have also developed a Formula that generates only 1 and primes:
a(n) = 1
~~~
0x44
I think there might be a bug there, somewhere. I ran it here, and got 4.
~~~
chengmi
You must be using Ruby... ;)
------
hugh
Anyone know whether it's been proven that the formula will generate an
infinite number of primes? Or might it start looping back on itself
eventually?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Project Cybersyn - m0th87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
======
stephenjudkins
See
[http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/12...](http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/12/project-
cybersyn.html) for a skeptical take on this.
~~~
ataggart
And see Russ Roberts' hint at why such things fail:
[http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2005/Robertsmarkets....](http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2005/Robertsmarkets.html)
------
stcredzero
The pic looks like something straight out of "The Forbin Project." Also,
holographically projected monoliths in those seats with letters reading "Seele
01" and the like wouldn't seem at all out of place.
| {
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Time to Say: good bye WordPress? - SmeelBe
http://ewebdesign.com/ghost-review/
======
rmccue
This seems a lot like linkbait to me. Most of the post is just reiteration of
Ghost's features, and the title intentionally asks an inflammatory question.
~~~
dkuntz2
To be fair, the article's actual title seems slightly less link-bait-y.
------
elmuchoprez
The most recent episode of In Beta with Gina Trapani and Kevin Purdy
([http://5by5.tv/inbeta/70](http://5by5.tv/inbeta/70)) discusses the current
state of WP and specifically addresses Ghost. While they make a sound argument
that WP has become a bloated mess compared to its humble origins, they point
out that Ghost isn't terribly accessible to the general public because it's
node.js based and can be complex to configure. Probably not a huge deal if you
know what you're doing, but even as a full time web dev, I don't have a
node.js server of my own to screw around with.
------
lazyant
I don't see anything indicating why someone would migrate from WP to this new
platform. WP grew among other things because it was easy to install and
'anyone' could create plug-ins, and now besides there's _a lot_ of themes.
I'm toying with the idea of reusing those WP themes, as in a platform with a
drop-in for the themes.
| {
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Slow-motion video of raindrops reveals how rain gets its distinctive smell - prateekj
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/01/16/slow-mo-video-of-raindrops-reveals-how-rain-gets-its-distinctive-smell/
======
colept
Wouldn't this provide some evidence for the theory that going into the rain
would make you more susceptible to get sick? The range might be limited to
close quarters but what about the residual germs and/or viruses that might
remain and be aerated again by other raindrops?
It would amaze me to see the aerated particles over time to see if they can be
aerated again.
~~~
dj-wonk
Your logic makes sense.
Two things.
1\. In my experience, stories about rain being associated with getting sick,
tend to be more related to being cold and wet. We could go on for hours about
"folk science" about how cold weather causes sickness. Cold weather is rightly
correlated with flu season, reduced levels of vitamin D, and diminished
physical activity, all of which probably have strong links to sickness.
2\. Your choice of baseline comparison is probably key here. Is going out in
the rain "safer" than staying indoors? Staying indoors in a poorly ventilated
office building?
From what I can tell, general wisdom today seems to be: unless your immune
system is compromised, or you have strong allergic reactions (such as hay-
fever), or you live in polluted area, or it is a high ozone day, it is a good
to get some exposure to outside air, including the natural germs floating
around in it. (Gosh, when I started writing that sentence, I didn't realize
how many caveats I would need!)
------
dnautics
the title for the post article is unfortunate, rain gets its distinctive smell
largely from geosmin:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosmin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosmin)
this is just the mechanism by which rain's smell is particularly _intense_.
~~~
trentmb
I get so excited when it's supposed to rain, especially in the summer.
That ozone smell before, and that earthy smell (which I now now is geosmin)
after. It's so awesome.
I wish I could bottle it and do bumps to my noses content.
~~~
forgotpasswd3x
> I wish I could bottle it and do bumps to my noses content.
I never knew I wanted this before, but now it's all I want. I'd absolutely buy
a bottle of that.
~~~
akx
I knew I had this link in my bookmarks for a reason...
[http://www.demeterfragrance.com/704174/products/Rain.html](http://www.demeterfragrance.com/704174/products/Rain.html)
------
cossatot
I wonder if this is the same mechanisms that releases smells from your hair
when you first put your head in the shower and have some strong or notable
scents in your hair. One of my favorite parts about coming home from camping
trips is showering and smelling the campfire smell again when my hair gets
wet.
------
thomasahle
I'm impressed with how well they make their research public. This could have
just been some people with a high speed camera and some mathematical models
answering a curiosity and releasing a paper. Like this they present it in a
way that even primary schoolers can understand, and even manage to link it to
current affairs in the end. 👍
------
andrewstuart2
> “Until now, people didn’t know that aerosols could be generated from
> raindrops on soil,” Youngsoo Joung, a postdoctoral student who worked on the
> research, said in a statement.
Um, wat? I can't count the number of times I've seen a raindrop or water in
general kick up dust, which is also an aerosol: a colloidal suspension of
particles dispersed in air or gas. So I find this statement a little
surprising.
Sure, the mechanism of bubbles inside a raindrop may be new, but rain kicking
stuff into the atmosphere is pretty unsurprising. In AZ, I know several
"desert field trips" I went on as a child had us pick Creosote leaves, rub the
leaves, and smell the oils released. Voila, rain smell (at least if you're
around creosote plants).
------
talalbaweja
Ever walked barefoot on the grass early in the morning when it is soaked with
dew. I think there is a lot going on their to give a very distinct smell,
which we can all relate to.
------
rbobby
Very nice... and right at the end they ruined it: "rainfall may spread
diseases like e.coli".
------
spaceshipdev
...and they do say "A day without Wine is a day without Sunshine"
------
thenovelnomad
Also, how public bathrooms get their distinctive smell...
------
SchizoDuckie
That is so cool :) best smell in the world
| {
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Aviary - 18 different web-based graphics tools - nickb
http://a.viary.com/tools
======
fiaz
I call vaporware. Another example of a concept site with impressive demos is
streamy.com. I wouldn't be surprised if these were "honey pots" of sorts to
collect email addresses of specific demographics (in this case it seems to be
different levels of web developers, whereas Streamy was aimed at the
Digg/reddit news crowd).
The thing that sets me off is the statement: "As soon as your invitation code
hatches we will send it to your inbox." Cute way of saying, "We'll send you
and invitation whenever we feel like it; but in the meantime we will do
whatever we like with your email address." I did notice the guarantee "We
promise not to spam!", but honestly that promise is as strong as the typeface
used to display it.
Another factor that tips me off is that they seem to be violating one of the
basics of good web application design: HAVE A FOCUS!!! Like Streamy, there are
too many things going on here that promise a lot of possibilities but seem too
much to deliver realistically. I would believe them more if they took perhaps
ONE or at most TWO of the things they claim to be releasing and said that this
product should be available soon...
Given the technology they are developing, I would hope to see a blog article
with some substance talking about some of the cutting edge technology that is
at least tangentially related to what they are claiming to be able to deliver.
Instead, there are some pics with text of little substance that seem to foster
an image of "coolness" and design savvy but no indication that they have any
real technical ability to deliver what they are advertising.
But of course, I could be wrong.... hopefully somebody here can disprove my
cynicism (see the reply button below this comment Aviary
people/developers/employees?!??!?!).
~~~
codebrulee
For what it's worth, I have received an invite from them. I played around a
little with the one application that is available - Phoenix. It seemed to be
pretty good software (but definitely still beta quality) for the 15 minutes I
played around with it.
~~~
fiaz
Interesting....I've been waiting for my invitation to "hatch" for sometime
now. By all means, I hope somebody proves me wrong and I really do hope there
is something to Aviary. But for some reason, their promiscuity in showing all
of their "goodies" seems that they are quite desperate for some attention.
I will issue a public apology here to Avi and company if my invite does happen
to "hatch", but as it stands, it looks like vaporware to me.
~~~
Avi
fiaz - please email me at avi (-a-) worth1000.com and I'll send you an invite
now to Phoenix and Peacock.
No apology will be needed either, I'm just sorry you had to wait so long.
~~~
fiaz
I have received your invite and I have logged in, and I DO owe you and your
entire team a great big apology.
It shows a great deal of integrity on your behalf that you took the time to
register here and respond publicly. I really look forward to what you guys
will be releasing in the coming months.
I'll tone down my skepticism in the future....in the meantime, all the best!!
------
nickb
Check out demos on their blog: <http://a.viary.com/blog> Pretty impressive.
I'm pretty sure you could do those operations with Splashup as well.
------
fiaz
Damn, I wish I wasn't so skeptical in my earlier postings on this thread. The
"tools" page link above seemed too good to be true; but it turned out to be
true, so does this mean it is that good? I hope so...
I have been playing with Peacock for the last hour and I must say that the
last time I had this much fun messing around with any sort of graphics
application was way back when I discovered KPT v2.0 back in 1996.
Good job to the team at Aviary and worth1000.com! You definitely have
something here.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code - bscanlan
https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/introducing-amazon-honeycode-build-web-mobile-apps-without-writing-code/
======
cbdumas
I think the thing that "coding without code" fundamentally misses is that
learning to actually write Python or Java or whatever is not the hard part of
being productive in a business context. The hard part of creating useful
software is that you have to understand a business process and its
requirements so precisely that you can write it down for the computer to do.
I work with business stakeholders creating internal line of business apps a
lot, and most of the time the requirements that they are able to articulate
are some variation of vague, ill-specified, and flat out wrong. And it's not
their fault at all, it's just that unless you've gone through the process of
writing code it's impossible to understand just how pedantic and explicit you
need to be when building software versus, say, giving your human colleagues
instructions.
And by the time you've got enough experience to be able to do that, tools like
this just get in the way compared to writing some Python or SQL or C# or what
have you.
~~~
nickff
I think you are radically underestimating the perceived barriers to entry with
programming. You sound a lot like the Linux advocates who think everyone
should just memorize a bunch of commands, and get used to using shell. This
type of insider view is often referred to as 'the curse of knowledge'.
~~~
cbdumas
I think you're right about perceived barriers to entry, and I certainly didn't
say (nor did I mean to imply) that anyone should "just" learn to code. But I
think the promise of "apps without code" is a siren song, always ending in
frustration.
I'd never tell anyone that learning to code is easy (only that most people can
do it with some hard work), but I would also never tell anyone that tools like
this will make it easier because I do not believe that to be true.
~~~
danudey
My counterpoint (to your original point) is that it's not about writing code.
Making an app like this and putting it online (with roughly the same level of
features) requires:
* Learning a backend language, like Python * Learning how to design a data model * Learning how to design an admin interface * Managing authentication, security, and performance * Learning HTML, CSS, and Javascript * Learning how to set up a uwsgi server * Learning how to set up an nginx server * Learning how to set up an AWS VM and deploy the above to it * Learning how to use a VCS
I'm an experienced programmer and sysadmin who has done all of those things
and more over the last 20 years, and I still can't imagine going to the
trouble of actually doing all of that if I can just log into HoneyComb and
make everything nice and quick and just get it done.
There's value in learning how to do it, but there's also value in spending
your time somewhere else. If you're making a simple CRUD app, bashing it
together with Django and deploying it to an EC2 VM is almost definitely not
your differentiated value proposition. If it's just a throwaway app to handle
some mundane task, then it's definitely not wort hthe time it takes to make it
if you don't have to.
~~~
andrewzah
> I still can't imagine going to the trouble of actually doing all of that if
> I can just log into HoneyComb and make everything nice and quick and just
> get it done.
That sounds all nice and good until one inevitably runs into limitations of
the software. And then it has to be made again, this time from scratch.
> bashing it together with Django and deploying it to an EC2 VM is almost
> definitely not your differentiated value proposition
It never -was- the value proposition. Customers simply do not care about what
stack you used in the first place. They will care when features don't get
rolled out because of limitations. Or when bugs arise because developers duct-
taped solutions together because of the limitations of their software-making
software. Not that traditional apps are perfect, but that's one issue they
don't have.
Yes, it is complicated, and if you're making a toy app it probably will
suffice. But I would never rely on it for a business.
~~~
dataminded
> But I would never rely on it for a business.
You sir have options. Every place I have ever worked has at least one app that
someone hacked together through some combination of PDFs, Excel and Access.
This is a tremendous opportunity for those folks. The ones who will never
learn to code, never learn to deploy an application and never get enough
visibility to have a developer assigned to their project.
For the everyteam, these types of tools are exceptional. I continue to be
amazed by what dedicated people pull-off with these no-code solutions.
~~~
NOGDP
> Every place I have ever worked has at least one app that someone hacked
> together through some combination of PDFs, Excel and Access... I continue to
> be amazed by what dedicated people pull-off with these no-code solutions.
VBA, SQL, etc, which is probably what these apps are written with, are code
though.
Honeycode is a language of it's own too, it's just a trade off between
flexibility/power and learning curve.
~~~
dataminded
I should have been more explicit, the things are built in Excel and Access
with the front-end interfaces not VBA or SQL.
------
avolcano
Looks like a competitor to Retool, interesting. The focus on data permissions,
mobile support, and push notifications is really interesting because none of
those features are ones that Retool focuses on, I believe - those features
being front and center makes me think Amazon has looked at the competition and
wants to focus on what they offer that others don't, rather than just trying
to be yet-another-tool in the space.
On the other hand, I absolutely loathe every single UI that has ever come out
of AWS, and there is absolutely no chance I give the editor they've built here
a shot without hearing lots of positive reactions first.
edit: actually going to pull back slightly on this comparison, since
apparently Honeycomb is a little closer to something like Access, where there
is a database _in_ the app, whereas Retool is built around connecting to an
external data source (e.g. a SQL database). This surprised me because I
assumed the entire reason you'd want an AWS version of this kind of tool is to
integrate with the broader AWS ecosystem, like frictionless hookup to a
DynamoDB or whatever. It may have this but just not spotlight it on the
marketing pages?
~~~
txcwpalpha
>On the other hand, I absolutely loathe every single UI that has ever come out
of AWS, and there is absolutely no chance I give the editor they've built here
a shot without hearing lots of positive reactions first.
I agree so much with this. I hate the AWS console UI so, so much and It blows
my mind that such a large company can't seem to even get on the same page
about what color scheme or menu bar position they want to use.
But actually, I'm messing around with Honeycode right now and although I
haven't gotten a chance to _really_ dig deep and test the long-term usability
of it, I have to say that so far it is gorgeous and intuitive. If the UI team
that worked on this just completely took over the AWS console, I wouldn't
complain.
~~~
ihumanable
Can someone smarter than me explain why the AWS UI is so off-putting? I also
find myself just put off by AWS UIs.
I can't even figure out why I hate it so much. Looking at the screenshots
though immediately filled me with the sense that this thing would just be
awful to use. When I go back to the screenshots to try to find objective
things I dislike about the UI, I can't really find anything. It seems to do
the stuff a UI needs to do.
Maybe it's just a negative association with the look & feel of AWS UI, because
most of the time when I'm interacting with AWS I'm trying to get a service I
haven't used before up and running. Going back and forth between dense
documentation and the UI, clicking and failing, and staring at a spinner spin
for far too long.
Perhaps all those hours spent fighting with other pages that look so similar
to this one has given me a subconscious dislike for all AWS UIs.
~~~
julianeon
I seem to be the only person who likes the AWS UI. So here's my defense of it.
AWS is like the hardware store. Who thinks Home Depot is elegant? It's not.
Who think their organization scheme is a thing of beauty? It's clunky and just
functional.
But the idea is, when you go to Home Depot, you're there to get work done. The
interior communicates that. The real work comes after you leave - Home Depot
understands it's just a facilitator.
AWS did that.
I personally give credit to AWS for looking at Google, and learning. They
could've had some high-handed PM come in and roar ITS TIME TO HAVE A UNIFIED
DESIGN SCHEME and then forced everyone to deal with UI updates nonstop, you
know the game of 'where did it go now,' 'oh, they moved it here.'
AWS went in the opposite direction. At the risk of ugliness, they give you the
most bare bones UI, basically 'nudging' you as little as possible - a clean
mapping of fields, to pages, to results. We know the downside: it can be
unpleasant. But the upside is, it rarely changes, its consistent, and
(aesthetic concerns aside) it gets the job done.
It seems a little weird to commend AWS for their design sense, but when you
phrase it as their design _goals_ , I vastly prefer them to Google or any
other 'opinionated' service.
~~~
RhodesianHunter
You're not alone, and thanks for putting into words what had been the back of
my mind.
I could not care less about the aesthetics of their dashboard, when I'm on it
I'm there to get something done and I never seem to have an issue with that.
~~~
Aeolun
Unless you are trying to search, and have to wait for 5000 items to load 50
items at a time :/
Oh, and then you find that search only supports either exact matches, or (for
some reason) suffix matches.
------
odshoifsdhfs
I am working on a product in this space.
I think pretty much all the 'no code' apps that are coming out have taken the
wrong approach to it. No matter what, they are still 'designed' by programmers
with a programming mentality. This will lead to a sort of failure as people
will feel limited when using it, and a 'non programmer' mentality looks at
this and goes wtf?
For example:
> =Filter(Tasks,"Tasks[Done]<>% ORDER BY Tasks[Due]","Yes")
I can understand this, 80% of folks here also, but do your mother or father?
Or the small business owner down the street? Why is the word `Tasks` in 3
places? What is the "Yes", and so on and on
~~~
VRay
Yeah, man, this looks like a beefed-up version of Excel macros
Anyone who can write working spreadsheet macros could probably just learn to
actually program. Maybe they aren't going to be making the next RTX Voice or
proving P=NP, but I'll bet they could crank out some CRUD
~~~
odshoifsdhfs
I did a lot of customer interviews. And I mean a lot.
People that are good at using Excel (as in, not just create a table with data,
but know how to use it, do macros, pivots, etc), if the need arrives they just
move up the chain to Access/Filemaker. I would say Excel is their gateway drug
to coding. Maybe now they will move to Honeycode perhaps (if the UI is ok)
The ones that can't use Excel past putting =A1+A2*0.2 can't use most of the no
code tools. But they can use a more visual approach to programming. This is
the market I believe will/is exploding as more and more, pretty much
everything requires a computer/app, but the customisation for each specific
case isn't there. They require a more Lego like approach to 'software'
development. For me, that is the NO-CODE definition.
~~~
IggleSniggle
Call me crazy, but with all the high-level language features in most of the
commonly used languages of today, combined with the depth of rich IDE tooling
for those languages, we already exist in a no-code world.
~~~
odshoifsdhfs
Yes and no. Maybe you have better examples of programming languages, but even
Ruby/Rails, Python, etc have concepts that make sense for programmers that non
programmers don't grasp. Think of it this way, if you give a good designer the
Rails Book (or another one), he may be able to do something after a few weeks
that may match (but very crudely) the app he thought off.
Now give the same designer Sketch/Figma, but allow him to sprinkle some logic
in ready made blocks (if/elses, loops, save object, etc) and he will get much
closer to what he wanted.
Is the second approach better? Well most programmers will scream at the
database model, etc. For the designer, he did in 2-3 days what would take him
weeks and get away with something better.
I think a lot of programmers look at their experience and think 'no-code' will
never work, but (where my experience comes) 20+ years of doing software
development as a consultant, what I found is 80-90% of most software share
most of their functionality, and the remaining percent are in many ways doable
with just a bit of 'scripting'
------
bram2w
A while back Microsoft announced Microsoft Lists, which is a similar tool. Of
course there are also existing tools like Airtable, Bubble, Mendix etc. All
these tools are great, but they have some downsides in my opinion.
\- If the product ever gets discontinued you might lose all your work.
\- All these tools have limits regarding the amount of rows you can store.
\- If your business depends on such a product and the pricing model changes,
it might bankrupt you.
\- You can't create or download real plugin that integrate well if you are
missing features.
\- In most cases you can't host it at your own servers.
\- You might end up in a vendor lock-in.
These are some of the reasons why I started Baserow. It is an open source
alternative to Airtable and in the far future also for tools like Bubble.
While it is still in an early phase there is a test version at
[https://baserow.io](https://baserow.io) that everyone can try. In the coming
weeks you can expect the open source release. Right now, I am finishing up the
documentation, examples, plugin boilerplate and some final small changes.
After that you can self host it without any limits, vendor lock-in or price
changes.
~~~
lukeramsden
Wow, that looks great. An COSS alternative is exactly what this space needs. I
wish you great success.
~~~
bram2w
Thanks! I agree, was surprised to learn that there aren't that many good open
source no-code tools out there.
~~~
zubairq
I couldn't find the source code, where is it on github?
~~~
bram2w
The open source release will probably happen within 3 weeks from now. It is an
early test version that is running on baserow.io, but this is for trying it
out only. I still need to write documentation, an openapi spec, a plugin
boilerplate and some other small things. When that is finished I will make the
code available publicly.
------
martythemaniak
Funny tangent: I spent my internship (16 months between 3rd and 4th years)
building Web 2.0 apps that were essentially implementing flows people were
using on top of Word/Excel+Email. It was good work and people were happy to
have a nice dedicated web app instead of their clunky flows.
After about a year I noticed I was basically doing the same thing over and
over again, so I decided to make an app that makes web apps! I could build any
app in my app! Awesome! I spent 4th year building this awesome tool out -
there was a document editor to create your forms, there was a Visio-like flow
editor that could make decisions, take actions (email to that person, fill in
that field, send to branch 2 if that checkbox was checked etc). After a few
months I eagerly applied to YC (for summer 2007) and... nothing. Turns out I
couldn't actually describe wtf I was doing and pg would rather fund Heroku.
Good call!
Anyway, there were other similar companies back then (Coghead) that went
nowhere, but this concept keep on popping up and AirTable seems to have caught
on. I guess someone at Amazon got tired of writing the same apps over and over
again.
------
fomojola
As an aside: I've been reading the AWS blog posts from Jeff Barr, but ignoring
the Amazon Polly audio conversions. I actually listened to it today, and not
only is it not terrible, but there's a moment (around 1:05 in or so) where you
can actually hear an inhalation! I know @jeffbarr is sometimes in these
threads: is that a standard feature of AWS Polly, or is there some
preprocessing that is generating SSML to control cadence, and if so how do we
get our hands on THAT?
~~~
tlrobinson
It still sounds very robotic to me. I think Google's WaveNet sounds much more
natural: [https://cloud.google.com/text-to-
speech#section-2](https://cloud.google.com/text-to-speech#section-2)
~~~
fomojola
There's a personal taste element: I agree with you that certain WaveNet voices
sound better (I've actually used them for video narration with some success).
The breathing caught me off guard: it took me a minute to identify THAT as the
element that was there but I implicitly wasn't expecting to hear.
The breathing + pausing at commas/full stops and general cadence was frankly
superior to what I've seen with Google Cloud Voice, which is why I was curious
if preprocessing was done. I've generally had to do multiple manual passes
with Google Cloud Voice to get audio output that didn't sound robotic.
------
jeffbarr
More info at [https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/introducing-amazon-
honeycod...](https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/introducing-amazon-honeycode-
build-web-mobile-apps-without-writing-code/)
~~~
Cilvic
This should be the real post link IMHO
~~~
dang
Ok, we'll change to that from
[https://www.honeycode.aws/](https://www.honeycode.aws/).
------
codingdave
The comments here strengthen exactly what I was thinking - this is yet another
flavor of low-code app development. I see similarities to Salesforce,
SharePoint, Lotus Notes, Airtable, and all the other startups on this path
that don't seem to realize that they are re-inventing modern versions of
products that have been around since the 80s.
I spent years in my early career doing Lotus Notes Dev, then shutting down all
those apps to go to Sharepoint, then shutting all those down to go to
Salesforce. I walked away from that churn about a decade ago to just do SaaS,
so I can't truly speak to which of the newcomers has the most promise. But I
have yet to see someone take on this market with full knowledge of what came
before. I see potential for someone to really learn the in and outs of all
such products over the last 30+ years, talk to the folks who have re-done
their LOB apps in multiple products over that time, figure out what worked and
build a true "best-of-breed" solution.
When someone does do that, I'm all in. Until then... the legacy apps I
mentioned above are past their time, so pick your favorite flavor from all the
new ones.
------
fosk
Yahoo! Pipes tried this more than a decade ago, it's interesting to see that
the dream of "apps my mom could build" never dies.
Except most people want to be consumers of applications, not creators. And
those who really want to be creators they learn how to code. So, like with
Pipes, I am not really sure who is the target audience here.
Microsoft Popfly[1] was another one from back in the days.
[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Popfly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Popfly)
~~~
pandalicious
"apps my mom could build" kind of describes Excel workbooks. People
effectively use excel to build (highly constrained) GUIs for processing data
using custom logic that they specify themselves. And excel's popularity speaks
for itself, it's completely pervasive. So that's the answer; the audience
isn't programmers, it's the officeworkers all over the world currently using
Excel to automate office tasks and want a better delivery mechanism than a
shared Excel file on the office LAN. That's such a big pie that even capturing
a small slice of it might be a reasonably profitable endeavor.
~~~
miek
You are spot on. I know a ton of people who fit your description. I wish this
were higher up the comment stack. So many people are missing this simple
viewpoint.
------
amrrs
It looks like an Airtable replica to me. I might be wrong. But anyways, AWS
getting into no-code (less-code) space is definitely going to impact a lot of
small time players. AWS can complete the loop of development to Custom
Deployment and It also has bunch of other things in its offerings that anyone
would be happy to jump in. I'm just worried about how small-time No-Code
players would survive going forward!
~~~
themodelplumber
I'm exploring no-code solutions for some small business tasks. In my
experience, if I can find a non-enterprise company to fill my needs, I will be
way better off. My past experience with Amazon tools is that they happily
stand in the enterprise solutions space, with an unfortunate amount of the
baggage that brings along.
------
ixtli
I focused a bit on the history of computing when i was getting my CS degree
and one of the things I've found super interesting is that for at least forty
years (perhaps longer!) we've been at least academically interested in writing
code "without writing code". It never really works, however for a technical
person it can be a great way to do, like, a sketch.
[https://hn.algolia.com/?q=without+writing+code](https://hn.algolia.com/?q=without+writing+code)
is an interesting search
~~~
lucasverra
im genuinely asking myself if "this time is different".
The merging of Cloud + Software consumerism of 15 (ish) years of mobile +
software eats world can make the Bubbles, Airtable and other no/low code tools
the next long tail revolution of software ?
What is different from the front page + Dreamweaver + flash days ?
My hint : cloud computing and the hosting of database AND logic in bigcorp
maintained garden
~~~
ilaksh
I'm not sure what your point is. When you say "bubbles" and "software eats the
world" I think you are saying that these tools were supposed to replace
programming, but so far they haven't.
In fact I think that people who make that claim are wrong. Low code
development tools have become hysterically successful, especially in recent
years. WordPress (400+ million websites) has 50000+ plugins that can do almost
anything. Look at Salesforce (17 billion revenue) and PeopleSoft. Airtable
(1.1 billion valuation). Shopify is approaching 1 million sites. Wix has $600
million in revenue. There are a lot of other massively successful products
that fit into the loose association you gave.
------
careyrouse
Co-Founder of [https://www.cloudternal.com](https://www.cloudternal.com). I'm
really surprised they have a limit of 100k records on their tables. They will
have the same issue that Airtable has, it's just not suited for enterprise.
We believe there is still a gap in the "database app for non-technical users"
space, so we created one that can handle millions of records, provides
granular permissions down to the cell level and targets those creative (yet
non-developer) users who end up pushing Excel beyond its usefulness.
~~~
nslindtner
Looks awesome
FYI: When you try to request early access, I get an SSL error.
~~~
thomasrognon
Hey there, I set that up. The request early access link is a Google Form so it
was an issue somewhere between you and Google. It works for me now, but if it
still doesn't work for you, please email Carey personally (email is in his HN
profile).
------
mg794613
Ok honestly, my first thought was "here we go again", BUT when you look at the
@jeffbar provided, you can see, that yes, it is "visual" programming. It does
however require a certain logical fluency. So I was wrong: It is _not_ the
sales/ceo dream of no longer having pesky engineers. It's a proper gateway
drug into programming.
~~~
jnwatson
The most common fallacy across almost 40 years of visual programming attempts
is that one can somehow escape the essential complexity of a problem domain.
One must have "a certain logical fluency" to design essentially any process,
regardless of the technology used.
~~~
trixie_
I'm pretty sure the zillions of Excel users proves it's not logic that's the
problem It's all the scaffolding around it that is the real barrier of entry
to most development systems.
------
pradn
I don't see Microsoft PowerApps mentioned in the comments.
([https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-us/](https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-
us/)) It's one of the most significant recent entrants into the "make an app"
space. It looks like Powerpoint and its coding is simple, with formulas like
Excel. They sell licenses mainly to companies (creating internal app stores).
~~~
DoctorOW
Not sure if this includes Power Automate but I find it really handy for the
work I do. If you're not already familiar with how an API works, being able to
point and click on an icon to setup automation is great.
------
ZeroCool2u
This looks very Tableau-esque. Another tool that takes a similar amount of
work to learn compared to just learning programming in the first place, but
with more vendor lock-in.
~~~
themodelplumber
Maybe it also serves as a ramp up to learning programming, but along that ramp
you can deliver economic value to your audience, rather than completing CS
theory exercises. That's often one of the selling points of this kind of
product.
------
viksit
While I’m always skeptical of no code systems, this is the first one that
seems to bring to the web what Visual Basic And Access did for Windows —
VBscript, GUI driven layouts and connectors, and eventually the pipeline of
programmers who went from VB to VC++ and Java.
Amazon also has the Microsoft—esque brand to really drive this into the
Zeitgeist. IMO this might be the most game changing product they have launched
recently given how much of a business impact it can have if distributed well.
But therein also lies its biggest challenge - Amazon hasn’t historically been
good at offering their services to the small businesses and consultants that
could leverage this and build for the long tail. I wonder if they have a
strategy for that.
------
pembrook
From the looks of it, I’d say Amazon applied the same level of UX thinking
into this as they applied to the AWS admin panel—which is to say, not enough.
I think using this in the real world will be about as easy as trying to buy
the right phone charger on Amazon.com. People consistently underestimate how
long it takes to learn complicated interfaces. At which point you might as
well just learn python.
Take any advanced 3D modeling software for example. They are visual
interfaces, not command line tools, but they might as well be considering the
learning curve for the average user.
Having visual buttons doesn’t necessarily mean the process of building a 3D
model (or a piece of software) is suddenly easy.
------
odiroot
My first impression it's like SaaS version of Microsoft Access GUI "apps" (or
better said, semi-smart data entry forms).
------
andreshb
Google would be smart to acquire Glide
([https://www.glideapps.com/](https://www.glideapps.com/))
~~~
spderosso
Google acquired AppSheet earlier this year. AppSheet has been around for
longer than Glide and it has more clients and features. They already acquired
the leader in building apps from spreadsheets.
------
ilaksh
Its weird to me that people in here keep saying this looks like a competitor
to [a single specific recent product X] when in fact this type of system has
been an entire very popular product category for decades, and there are
literally thousands of systems like it. Of course not all of those thousands
of systems have become extremely popular or have the same scope or are
contemporary.
For example: Access, Salesforce, WordPress, Tableau, 10000 other ones that
never became really popular including the simple one I made ten years ago for
a client.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-
code_development_platfor...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-
code_development_platform)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-
generation_programmin...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-
generation_programming_language)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_application_developmen...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_application_development)
------
didip
I love it for the purpose of building custom internal apps.
What would make it better is if:
* It’s open source, therefore installable on-prem and free from vendor lock-in.
* It has multiple swappable backends.
This thing and Bootstrap can replace a myriad of random in-house apps.
------
steveharman
"Honeycode – Build Web & Mobile Apps Without Writing Code"
For the sake of clarity, couldn't they have come up with a name that didn't
include the word "code" ?
------
systematical
It's a spreadsheet and for when you need more (aka have to write some code),
there are conditions, functions etc...
[https://honeycodecommunity.aws/t/honeycode-
functions/90](https://honeycodecommunity.aws/t/honeycode-functions/90)
------
cosmotic
Has programming 'without writing code' ever panned out for anyone? 27th times
the charm?
~~~
pmlnr
Ladder logic used to be fairly big in PLCs a while ago, but PLCs were rather
simple.
frontpage98 was the one to kickstart my web experience.
They are good to start somewhere from, but they'll never be a replacement.
~~~
PaulWaldman
Ladder Logic is still used heavily in modern industrial automation systems.
This isn't to ease development, but to aid in the supportability by folks who
don't have a background in software and are used to reading electrical prints.
------
riskable
It's responsive layout Hypercard. We've come full circle.
Maybe more like Filemaker Pro, circa 1990.
~~~
A4ET8a8uTh0
I think you are right. You show some of my coworkers GUI built with Qt and
they will eww all over it.
edit: But this.. it is polished.
------
IdiocyInAction
Is this really no code? Those formulas they are using look quite a bit like
code to me and GUI builders and templates are also nothing new.
------
t0mas88
I'm very eager to see the Office 365 answer to this.
Microsoft is the one that needs to come up with a defensive play here, because
this is an area where Excel is used in many businesses both small and large.
I'm guessing Microsoft could do a better job than AWS integrating this with
Excel and the Office 365 or MS Teams kind of UI to make it feel at home to
their users.
On the other hand, AWS is ahead now and likely to start integrating this with
the rest of their services if it takes off.
Either way, I think this can be an interesting development for a lot of half
baked Excel processes that are everywhere in a typical company.
~~~
tda
It's called Power Apps [https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-
us/](https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-us/)
~~~
basch
The "Power Family" or Power Platform (PowerApps, PowerAutomate, PowerBI, Power
Virtual Agents) are inarguable the most mature bundle of WYSIWYG, visual data
flows, and data graphing on the market. It's not just about the app building
itself, but all the ways to get data in and out of it, and what else you can
do with the data once youve gathered it. Salesforce is probably the other
company in the same league.
Microsoft clearly has a branding / marketing problem, where people have
ignored them for too long, and or are just reconsidering products Microsoft
has had on the market for 10 year (another thread where people said Office on
the web has caught up to gdocs, whereas id say theyve been ahead of it for at
least 4 years.)
Mirosoft Lists (their Airtable) is a new interface over SharePoint lists.
SharePoint lists are one of the data sources for the Power Platform, but so is
Dynamics CRM, ERP etc.
[https://powerplatform.microsoft.com/](https://powerplatform.microsoft.com/)
~~~
vxNsr
> _another thread where people said Office on the web has caught up to gdocs,
> whereas id say theyve been ahead of it for at least 4 years._
This issue is that gdocs and co are free while even for just web word you need
a subscription. so the only ppl who use it are ppl willing to pay, the
freeloaders only see it when their company decides to switch back to MS apps
after being in googleville for a few years.
~~~
basch
Free outlook.com (Hotmail) account includes OneDrive (live) and Word online.
------
dennisgorelik
Ability to write code - is the main way to deal with application complexity.
If Amazon Honeycode does not have that critical feature (ability to write
code) - then Amazon Honeycode is useless for creating any complex
applications.
------
stoavio
Too bad this is just another low-code CRUD offering for SMB/Enterprise. This
would have been so much more interesting if it allowed me to build an app for
mobile and web with a custom domain, database modeling and storage,
integration-eque triggers/automations, all while keeping the underlying
platform invisible to the user. Instead, I have to create a team on AWS and
then invite members who then have to install the Honeycode player on their
phones just to use my app.
In other words, Bubble needs more competition.
------
kirillzubovsky
Using data tables to publish websites and apps is an interesting concept and
having an in-house tool to produce most commonly requested ones makes total
sense. Look at their templates: Inventory management, Team Tracking, Surveys,
Reporting...etc. It makes sense.
One hard problem here though, by the looks of it, the tool is a database
designed by engineers in response to a lengthy requirements document. It has
no regard for user experience, and is one of those things you can use, only if
you go through a 3 week training course.
This, imo, is where AWS could borrow from startup playbook, and instead of
launching a spaceship, start instead with a paper airplane. Imagine if all you
could do was to publish an inventory-management tool, that in one-click
integrated with Amazon Pay and let the customers buy your products on a
website?
Maybe Amazon is waiting for someone else to build this on top of their tools,
and then make it available, but that poses a question why. Why would someone
build on top of Honeycode, only to have Amazon eventually make it their own?
Interesting concept, but it's got a long ways to go before anyone needs to be
scared of what Amazon can do with this thing.
~~~
kirillzubovsky
p.s. One thing I can't figure out is if Honeycode can function as an API. If I
am already using AWS for my other infra, keeping my data inside their "Excel"
and then auto process and export it to somewhere using drag-and-drop
automation, that makes perfect sense.
In fact, the whole "no code" Dreamweaver analogy isn't all that fitting. If
they just said "Excel spreadsheet on steroids that integrates with other AWS
product," would make more sense, to me at least.
------
runawaybottle
I feel like many of these no-code tools are taking an all or nothing approach
that will ultimately ossify into a very specific form.
However, if something like Honeycode also had a robust programming/design API,
you allow for tons of flexibility.
We _could_ build a lot of it without code, and we _could_ build a lot of it
with code, and even better, we _could_ code more things that can be built
without code on an app by app basis.
------
deanCommie
I'm always wary of these kinds of ideas, but honestly this looks pretty cool!
I feel like the Press Release[1] actually quantifies why companies would want
to use really well.
[1] [https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-
det...](https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-details/aws-
announces-amazon-honeycode)
------
darepublic
What we need in this space is basically a UI where you build out what the
presentation of the data looks like, what the permissions will be, and then an
app gets generated for you automatically. You see the generated product and
can then iterate but instead of with devs with tireless coding automatons
------
zubairq
As a developer of an open source low code tool
[https://github.com/zubairq/pilot](https://github.com/zubairq/pilot) I think
it is great that Amazon has entered this space. It really validates it for the
mass market!
------
brainwipe
These kinds of systems are all well and good if you have a person in your
business with an analytical mind enough to pick it up and all your needs will
fit the limits of the framework.
If your business domain has a feature that doesn't fit then you have a
difficult conversation with business people who won't change their process to
fit the platform and won't pay to rebuild in a platform that does fit.
If you do manage to customise Honeycomb then you're down a path of not really
fitting into their model or having to upgrade on their product roadmap, not
yours. I've seen SAP and Sharepoint "installations" that have been customised
beyond all recognition.
Where this will fit nicely is for those internal apps where people are just
using Excel or Access-like systems.
------
julianeon
Are there any tools where you can design something in the UI, and then export
it as actual React or JavaScript code, that you can then take and upload
somewhere else?
Using low-code as a developer to iterate faster, and bang out lots of mini
code apps quickly, is an interesting idea.
~~~
papito
The idea of code generation is not new - but it seems like the new crop of
software developers are learning the same concepts and lessons all over again.
Hey - state machines are so hot right now.
Back in the day there was this cool concept of creating a bunch of UML
diagrams for your business logic and them BOOM - press a button and here is
your C++ code. But then architecture astronomy hits the asphalt and you
realize that most of the hard work is still ahead. So things like IBM Rational
Rose were only sold to suckers.
------
grouseway
Is this the first instance of Amazon offering an end-user (i.e. non developer)
SaaS style product?
~~~
cj
Below are a few other AWS services that I'd consider "SaaS style". Lightsail
is the only one that has a similar SaaS style pricing:
[https://aws.amazon.com/lightsail/pricing/](https://aws.amazon.com/lightsail/pricing/)
\- Lightsail (ie. self-hosted wordpress)
\- Cloud9 (IDE in the cloud)
\- Workspaces (remote windows/linux desktops)
\- Workdocs (cloud documents)
\- Workmail (email)
\- Chime (audio / video calling)
------
topicseed
This is a great way to prototype some simpler, mostly CRUD-like applications.
Definitely not future-proof as new business rules may be hard to add after a
while, but by then the PoC has shown its value and ROI, and writing a real app
might become a no-brainer anyway.
------
throwawaysea
Things are broken when a well resourced large company can just steal someone
else's innovative idea (Airtable or others) and try to muscle them out using
capital or a captive customer base. We need new anti trust laws.
------
atulatul
This is not related to main content of the post. But when I visit the page on
a laptop, a sizeable portion is taken by the header- two or three layers in a
div (lb-clearfix m-nav-double-row)- one of which is logo and create account (
blank space between logo and button), then the menu bar (blank space on the
right below create account button), then the blog menu and search. In the main
section body, a large portion on the right is white space. I have not done UI
UX for a few years. Is this a good design? Are there reasons behind it? (views
on mobile, etc)
------
Edmond
As someone working in this space (codesolvent.com)...color me unimpressed so
far.
Of course with AWS resources this can change with time. They did hype this
some months back, I was expecting something a bit more impressive OOTB.
------
syshum
So far I have yet to see a real practical use for no code, they all seem great
in the demo's and get alot of hype but at the end of the day they take far
more resources to maintain than a normal app and you end up having to have a
programmer maintain after the end user quickly exceeds their ability to
develop anything in a no code enviroment.
They either get Flustered and end up back in Excel, or the "app" gets handed
off to IT / Development who get frustrated and start a project to rewrite in a
actual programming environment
------
dsbanaj
This works only for the development of simple applications. If these no-
code/low-code platforms want to be considered for serious development, they
need to decouple front-end and back-end tiers. A developer can build front-end
in one no-code application (e.g Webflow), or Angular/React for slick single-
page applications; and the backend in another backend APIs specific no-code
application. It will also enable the backend code to be called from native iOS
and Android apps.
------
mortonpe
Is Honeycode for everyone? Nope. Is it for some people? Sure. I’ve read
through countless comments extolling the virtues of hiring python, java, or
(insert your favorite language) developer. Let’s not lose sight of the
customer. Some problems don’t need a perfect solutions. Some problems need a
solution that is more concurrent than excel. Some problems just need a quick
solution for now. You would be surprised to learn how many small business run
in these imperfect solutions.
------
nyxtom
Really wish Amazon would stop trying to eat all software startups.
------
rickyplouis
These types of tools seem excellent for prototyping, but always fall short in
addressing the real world issues of increasing scope and maintainability. No
code web development (Wordpress, and Squarespace) has largely thrived due to
blogs and largely static content, but I fail to see a similar use case in
mobile app development. Maybe it's a lack of imagination, but how valuable is
a tool like this outside of todo lists, blogs, and other minor use cases?
------
chrisvalleybay
My guess is they are doing that because one of AWSs biggest competitors will
be Azure. The Enterprise will be riding on Azure+Power Apps with data sourced
from Dynamics et. al.
------
ravivyas
If you want a new perspective to the entire nocode space, remove the line
"building apps" from any conversation or line of thought.
A spreadsheet to track a project need not be an app, the ability to
temporarily give access to internal data to a non developer team (which become
CSVs in email) is not an App.
It is this need of building a full solution which actually takes us away from
the need of the users to the need to justify a resource for the thing.
------
outworlder
Give me an intuitive, drag and drop enviroment where I can plan out my AWS
deployments and tie resources together, and then write the cloudformation for
me. Then I'll be happy.
Also, this thing requires a different login even though I'm logged in to an
AWS account with corporate SSO. Like quicksight and other tools do, and it's
just as infuriating. Just let me start using and bill for usage.
------
ivan_ah
So, this is like Neonto Native Studio[1] but with less focus on looks and UI,
and more on business worflows? I can see how this would be useful for many
businesses with rag-tag processes, being able to combine on a easy-to-watch
app that everyone has on their phone would be nice.
[1] [http://neonto.com/nativestudio](http://neonto.com/nativestudio)
------
wsc981
When looking at the website, I do think this could be a very decent product
that could fulfil a business need.
From what I've seen many businesses use Excel sheets as a sort of apps. And
this seems to be a mobile-compatible version of that idea. Of course it'll be
very limited, but for a certain niche of business apps it could be very useful
as a replacement for Excel.
------
arkitaip
It's weird that Amazon releases this low-code tool and yet they can't offer
basic managed CMS/Wordpress to millions of businesses out there. Their pricing
could start at 20 USD per month and they could conquer the premium (wordpress)
hosting market dominated by WP Engine, Kinsta, Media Temple, etc.
------
gator-io
What's the saying? Code-less environments make 90% of building an app simple,
and 10% impossible.
------
annoyingnoob
This looks like several Microsoft products stacked together, Sharepoint,
Forms, Flow, Power Apps. I already do this with Microsoft and most of the time
I don't have all of the tools I need or I want to scream at the screen "just
show me the code!".
------
tyingq
Google shut down their similar tool:
[https://support.google.com/a/answer/9682494?p=am_announcemen...](https://support.google.com/a/answer/9682494?p=am_announcement&rd=1)
------
kayman
In my experience, when people build apps without having to write code, the
first iteration is awesome. Get something working and shows great promise. But
as complexity grows, the app ends up being a badly designed excel screen on
the web.
------
ricardobeat
There is Podio ([https://podio.com/](https://podio.com/)) in this space which
I think is really cool - or it was when I tried many years ago. Always wonder
why it is not more popular.
------
psmithsfhn
i was hoping for something at least semi-interesting. not so much. airtable,
with a google aesthetic. eh.
i feel like Anvil is on the right, almost perfect, track -- except for their
choice of Python over Javascript. They chose self.Python over javascript. ok.
life is full of decisions. in their defense, callbackjavascript is...not so
promising.
bubble went with..something. right idea. not the best execution. still, a step
in the right direction.
saw a couple other tools out there that are trying to cross the chasm, but
nothing as good as VB yet.
------
alex_young
Sounds a lot like Google App Maker, which is now scheduled for shutdown in
January 2021.
[https://developers.google.com/appmaker](https://developers.google.com/appmaker)
------
reilly3000
I didn’t see much in the way of docs from the micro site at least. I’m
wondering if there is IAM integration or the ability to call Lambdas. Those
would be Airtable-killer features from where I sit.
~~~
pldr1234
I think the problem is, it's easy enough to glue to Airtable (lovely API), and
the other problem is I'm not sure how you'd generalise the power of Lambdas to
a consumer, for whatever this Honeycode thing is.
------
djohnston
It seems like a start, but unless they're supporting a community plugin
ecosystem you'll be at the mercy of what their team decides is worth
integrating. Maybe it doesn't matter.
------
theptip
So how do you unit / integration test your code in this paradigm?
Or is this just for apps that would otherwise be run from a spreadsheet, and
not displacing anything an engineer would build?
------
gonesilent
Taking the thunder from the coupon code site Honey. Won't be searching for
Amazon honey or code and finding real honey. It like doing this with product
names.
------
gdsdfe
Interesting ... there's a big push towards this "no code, low code" solutions
lately in the industry, I wonder if this is just to sell more cloud services?
------
buboard
and we're back to MS Access ! about time, really
~~~
glaberficken
Came here to write exactly this, but thought I'd do a quick Ctrl+F first =)
------
brisance
Seems like an AirTable/PowerApps competitor, but an early version which means
the polish isn't there. Personally I prefer Coda.
------
harrisreynolds
Not surprising to see Amazon get in the game with a #nocode tool. I will be
interested to compare this with Webase [1] where we've focused first on custom
views and the data model but have yet to support custom notifications (coming
soon though!).
Although the world still needs lots of developers I do believe there is a BIG
opportunity in the #nocode space.
[1] [https://www.webase.com](https://www.webase.com)
------
Illniyar
So this is Microsoft Access as a service?
~~~
guerrilla
Looks like it. My first thought was Filemaker Pro or the old Claris
Works/AppleWorks Database program.
------
ezconnect
Delphi was my first experience on apps without much coding, it helped me
understand event driven programming.
------
muddi900
>Sharing data across multiple users and multiple spreadsheets is difficult
=Importrange()
In google sheets.
------
ciguy
I'm getting major Microsoft Access vibes from this. I guess we really have
come full circle.
------
caetris1
It's cloud-native Visual Basic.
------
Aeolun
What if I need more than 100k rows per table? Where is the unlimited
(enterprise) plan?
------
hannasm
And if if ever gets discontinued you lose everything you might have ever built
forever.
------
ngcc_hk
Not for Hongkonger though. Browser work but that is not the point. Is it just
USA?
------
MangoCoffee
Am I correct to say that we have go down to this road before (no code app)?
------
ngcc_hk
Is it the fourth generation language once again? Quick Master from ICL anyone?
------
kords
A lot of these things can be done with SharePoint. Same thing, no code.
~~~
llimos
Correct, especially when you add Power Automate and Power Apps - MS have been
quietly pulling ahead in this space.
They also have one huge advantage that no-one else besides maybe Google have -
integration with Office 365: your corporate directory, email, filestore...
Which means they don't even need to be the best at this kind of product. Good
enough, plus the integration, is a game changer.
~~~
basch
Office 365 AND Dynamics (CRM, Finance, ERP etc.)
The one thing Microsoft really needs still is in house, industry specific
layers to drop on top of dynamics, such as
[https://www.mtwocloud.com/](https://www.mtwocloud.com/) instead of depending
on these third parties. Microsofts own sales teams don't know these products
exist, and they have poor visibility. Enough companies won't even touch
Dynamics, preferring something more industry specific.
Look at all the other things they cover in the SalesForce, Adobe, Oracle realm
that automatically integrate right into the Power Platform.
[https://dynamics.microsoft.com/en-us/](https://dynamics.microsoft.com/en-us/)
~~~
janstice
Microsoft does have industry accelerators that sit on the Common Data Model &
Dynamics, so ISV's (and presumably in-house devs) can write industry-specific
solutions that might hopefully play nicely together:
[https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/common-data-
model/industry-...](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/common-data-
model/industry-accelerators)
------
pbreit
Has anyone ever built a decent app with a tool like this?
------
pjmlp
Looks quite basic versus alternatives like OutSystems.
------
bencollier49
The looks remarkably like an Access MDB application.
------
jonplackett
The downside... portability. Amazon now own your ass.
------
sciprojguy
Great. Another ReactNative. Just what we need.
------
koliber
Is this Amazon's disruption of VisualBasic?
------
TrinaryWorksToo
This is basically Microsoft Access forms.
------
pinewurst
I see two+ entwined fundamental problems here:
1\. Amazon isn't especially known for high quality software. I picture lots of
weird corner cases that won't be tested or fixed in their frantic pursuit of
new features (which is what's rewarded, like Google if not more so).
2\. Sky high Amazon attrition - especially in engineering!* - means that it's
always newbies who'll be working on it, under high pressure.
I have trouble imagining a non-trivial corporate app with any kind of lifespan
living on this thing.
*I live in Seattle so any Bezbots can save themselves the denial of harsh reality.
------
alexashka
This is like a movie you know 2 minutes in, is going to be a complete
disaster, give it another 5 minutes and finally turn it off. You stumble upon
it's imbd page some time later to discover it has a 3/10 rating and nobody
went to see it.
I don't see a single innovative idea in this product and I see plenty that's
worse than the experience I had in Dreamweaver in year 2000.
~~~
justaguyhere
This looks similar to Airtable, except Airtable UI seems nicer. Airtable is a
Billion dollar company, tons of people are happily using it.
I am no fan of Amazon, but I do not think it is as bad as you describe. Even
if it is half as good as Airtable, this will take off, simply because of
Amazon's weight behind it.
~~~
careyrouse
I agree, the users of Airtable love the UI. But it's mostly individuals and
small companies. Airtable isn't practical for enterprises with its 50k row
limit and extremely limited permissions.
With Honeycode being an Amazon tool, I would expect their targets are more
enterprise. But even this tool is limited to 100k rows, so until that changes,
this can't really be used at scale either.
There's still a gap in modern database apps combining scale, granular
permissions and something made for non-technical users.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Astropad – Transform your iPad into a professional graphics tablet - opusdie
http://astropad.com/
======
archagon
I feel the main problem with using the iPad as a stylus input device is the
latency. There's a very noticeable and annoying lag when drawing anything via
a capacitive input device, unlike on a Wacom. Hopefully the rumors are true
and Apple adds a digitizer to the next iPad model!
~~~
gdonelli
Did you see the finger crossed here:
[http://astropad.com/assets/img/pens.jpg](http://astropad.com/assets/img/pens.jpg)
~~~
archagon
Yes! It made me smile. :)
------
noahbradley
I'd love for the iPad to be a great digital creation tool. I really would.
But as it stands, it's horrible. It's laggy, lacks pressure sensitivity, and
the apps are clunky at best.
Here's to hoping there's a push from Apple to improve things. But for the time
being Microsoft's Surface line is about a thousand times better for actual
creatives.
~~~
bornabox
Astropad has a 7 day tryout. So, I've been using it to pretty great results. I
like it.
With Wifi it's actually laggy, but with the USB cable, it has been very fast.
Pressure sensitivity isn't that important to me - depends on your use-case.
Tried it with Photoshop and Illustrator and it works great. Being able to see
what you draw is great, far better then a normal Wacom Tablet.
So far, it's a great option. A bit on the expensive side, but cheaper then
having to buy a Cintiq or a Surface :)
~~~
mronge
I'm glad you like it!
If you can, try using your wifi on the 5ghz band. In some cases that helps a
lot
------
wanderingstan
I'm not a professional arts it but spend a fair amount of time in Photoshop.
Years ago I got a low end Wacom but never used it after the first week. Too
much hassle to pull it out, and I never got the hang of looking at the screen
while moving my hand.
Astropad is a good fit for me. I already own an iPad; and for <$100 I get
Astropad and a pressure sensitive pen. This means the draw-on-screen
experience of the $1K Cintiq and no extra peripheral to dig out.
I saw on other sites where someone complained that "pro" tablets give 2048
levels of pressure sensitivity while ipad pens give only 1024, but I can't
tell a difference. (Esp when the LCD only has 256 levels per color channel!)
The geeky side of me is more impressed with how they got such low latency and
high fidelity over the same wifi pipe used by other screen-mapping apps
(Duet).
~~~
emehrkay
I was messing around with this the other day and I had a video playing on my
computer. It showed up on the iPad pixelated like when tv censors nudity,
pointer tracking seemed pretty fluid even with that playing.
What would be nice is a direct connection between the iPad and computer
instead of wifi. My work network is a hassle to log into so I don't event do
it most of the time. If I need to look up something on the iPad, i pull out my
cell phone hotspot.
~~~
gdonelli
Pixelation is expected and by design. We are optimized for displaying high
quality still images.
If a large change occurs on your Mac screen and we are unable to keep up, we
show pixelated content. This is a signal that we don't have the full screen in
yet, and that the screen image is loading. Astropad is honest, when the image
is clear, you are assured what you see is the actual content, artifact free.
Sending high image quality over WiFi is really challenging. Ever wonder why we
don't have wireless TVs? or Wireless computer displays? It's really really
hard to do.
~~~
ghostly_s
Well... we do have wireless TVs. They started that way.
------
davesque
I LOVE the philosophy behind this -- trying to address the dearth of
functionality-rich applications (not apps, mind you) in the post-pc era.
One question: How does this improve on the poor resolution of the iPad touch
interface as compared with the Microsoft surface?
~~~
gdonelli
It mostly depends on what stylus you use. Here are the recommended ones:
[http://blog.astropad.com/styluses/](http://blog.astropad.com/styluses/)
We have a 7 days free trial take it for a spin, judge for yourself.
~~~
davesque
Cool. Thanks a lot for hanging out in the thread and answering questions! I
love it when posters do that :).
------
pokstad
Great concept, but I would avoid "Ex-Apple Engineers" and go for "Former Apple
Engineers" to avoid the negative wording. Sounds like you broke up with Apple
and it's a sour relationship.
~~~
gdonelli
Good suggestion. We actually still have many friends at Apple and left in
great terms.
------
zmmmmm
Can't see any mention of palm rejection and the image they show doesn't
clearly show if his hand touches the screen or not while drawing. I'm curious
how well the palm rejection problem is solved in these kind of apps? If not it
would seem to be a pretty annoying problem.
~~~
gdonelli
iOS 8 introduces new features that make palm rejection possible. You actually
now know the size of area touching the display.
Upon this feature, we build our own palm detection. It works quite well. We
have a 7 days free trial, take it for a spin.
~~~
zmmmmm
Interesting info, thanks - I use an nVidia Shield tablet that comes with
stylus and has palm rejection features that nVidia included dedicated support
for their SoC. Unfortunately it does not work well enough for me and I end up
not using the stylus very much. So it is interesting that it's possible
(hopefully) to solve it better than that.
------
endergen
Looks awesome #astroboys.
ps. I'm the founder of Emotely, where I toyed around with a similar approach
but then ended up focusing on game controllers instead. Early concept video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE8-TntjYB4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE8-TntjYB4)
Had been toying with doing something exactly like this again recently called
interscreen. Made some prototypes of going over USB, it's so fast when you do
that, generally it's fast over wifi. Wifi is un-demoable at conferences, which
was always an annoying factor for self promotion.
~~~
endergen
...not going to be continuing with it I don't think, but definitely going to
keep check out the app. You have my purchase. :)
I wonder if there's a way to combine your tech with Tiltbrush's for a cool VR
use case: [http://tiltbrush.com](http://tiltbrush.com)
Being able to tilt the device as another axis of control for your virtual
drawing plane could be cool.
[email protected]
------
graeme
I'm just beginning to make khan academy style videos. That's where I use a
tablet to make basic drawings, and screencast what I do.
Is astropad a good fit for this use case? I tried drawing via sketchbook
express, but it was hard to keep tools offscreen yet still have enough space
to make sketches on the ipad screen.
Currently I'm using jot whiteboard + Airserver, which lets me display my
drawings to my mac.
------
oenvoyage
I tried different stylus solutions and iPAD doest NOT differentiate your palm
from the pen... (or through software hack) which means you can not rest your
hand on the screen (as opposed to WACOM / Galaxy Note/ Surface) And drawing
all day long is tiresome. Maybe one can get used to it, I dont :-) Maybe your
solution is good I hope.
------
bane
Great work, this has always seemed like one of those obvious things that we
would have seen before. Great job making it work!
------
peterhajas
I installed this on my iPad and Mac, excited to try out 53 Pencil support.
Unfortunately, they don't tell you that it doesn't support 53 Pencil yet until
after you start the free trial.
I wish I could start over my trial when my stylus is supported.
~~~
mronge
Hey Peter!
Sorry about that, we had to pull Pencil support at the last minute due to
bugs.
The trial only records days actually used, so if you resume when we have
Pencil support you'll still have time left.
------
moreati
Good luck, looks like a nice product. My only request/suggestion for your
website is to make it clear which iPads you're compatible with. e.g. does dock
vs lightning connector matter? full size vs mini? iOS version?
~~~
gdonelli
Good point.
Any Mac running OS X 10.9+
Any iPad running iOS 8
------
forrestthewoods
Would work 100x better with a Surface Pro 2.
Unrelated, but I utterly despise any and all video playback setups that don't
let me control time. This isn't a VHS tape, let me watch your promotional
video how I want plzkthx.
~~~
gdonelli
We are Apple's #astroboys, we like one button and no knobs...
...but just for you:
[http://vimeo.com/astrohq/astropad](http://vimeo.com/astrohq/astropad)
------
thenomad
Looks very cool!
Any chance of it ever moving to Windows, or is it Mac-only forever?
------
yummybear
Not more than a month ago, I was looking for a similar products, and here it
is. Good job. I have yet to try it, but especially the speed looks promising.
------
learc83
Any information on the input latency?
~~~
RodgerTheGreat
In the demo video it seems significant and I think I'd find it very
distracting.
~~~
gdonelli
Take it for a spin, we have a 7 days free trial.
~~~
troymc
Maybe have a video showing someone drawing a fast zig-zag scribble; it would
answer the latency question implicitly. Ditto for palm rejection.
------
dalys
Just a heads up, Chrome on my phone crashes repeatedly when trying to play the
video.
------
rokgregoric
Awesome app. I was testing it and I highly recommend it!
------
smrtinsert
Or buy an 800 touch pc.
~~~
ghostly_s
You meant $800, I imagine? How about you get one of those and report back to
us how useful they are for professional illustration work.
~~~
MichaelGG
Is the MS Surface actually bad for that? I thought that was one of the only
interesting use cases for it (as it has no real keyboard, is rather heavy,
etc.).
~~~
sirn
I asked my artist friend to try drawing on my Surface Pro 3 a month ago (using
Clip Studio Paint). Her impression was that N-trig's preciseness and lacking
pressure level make the Surface 3 unsuitable for a serious work, but it's OK
for light drawing session or for a rough drawing. The Surface 2 might be
another story though.
------
stefantalpalaru
Add $20 and you can buy a Wacom CTH461 Bamboo Craft Tablet complete with
stylus and 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity.
------
Ezhik
$50, though? You can buy an actual graphics tablet for that much.
~~~
gdonelli
Yes a black slate on which you cannot see where you draw... have you ever
tried those? This product is more similar to a Cintiq which is 1000+ value
Astropad brings the Cintiq experience to your iPad
[http://www.imore.com/astropad-brings-cintiq-experience-
your-...](http://www.imore.com/astropad-brings-cintiq-experience-your-ipad)
Astropad Is An App That Pretty Much Replaces Graphics Tablets
[http://gizmodo.com/astropad-is-an-app-that-pretty-much-
repla...](http://gizmodo.com/astropad-is-an-app-that-pretty-much-replaces-
graphics-t-1686931534)
~~~
nacs
There's no way this compares to a Cintiq.
Cintiq has far higher accuracy compared to the Astropad and Cintiq also has
2048+ levels of pressure sensitivity.
Also, input lag with actual tablets/Cintiqs will be far less than the
Astropad.
For casual sketching/scribbling, the Astropad may be OK but for professional
level work, nothing comes close to Wacom-powered tablets (and, unfortunately,
won't anytime soon due to Wacom's patents).
~~~
mintplant
It doesn't have to be _better_ than a Cintiq, it just has to be closer than an
equivalent dedicated graphics tablet at the same price point. I think it's a
valid comparison.
~~~
nacs
Except this doesn't come close to any dedicated graphics tablet, let alone one
of the most high-end tablets you can get like a Cintiq so the comparison is
really bad.
All real graphics tablets, even ones in the <$100 range, have pressure
sensitivity unlike the Astropad and the accuracy is far higher with real
tablets.
~~~
wanderingstan
You're conflating a lot of things here.
* Astropad _does_ have pressure sensitivity via the supported pens. * Astropad _does_ provide a visible screen like a cintiq at a much lower cost.
How can you clame it "doesn't come close to a desicated graphics tablet" when
you obviously haven't tried it in the preferred setup of iPad + pressure
sensitive pen? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying ita speculation at
this point.
------
michaelbuddy
meh, I'm aware at how this will perform. Surface pro 1, 2 or 3 is way better.
~~~
washill
Shame, seems like a lot of effort to fit themselves onto a platform that just
wasn't made for illustration. If this is what you want out of a tablet there's
no reason to get one without a digitizer.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Open Source And Responsibility - felixge
http://felixge.de/2013/03/07/open-source-and-responsibility.html
======
rburhum
In my experience, I rely heavily on what I consider "Open Source Karma". There
are a handful of projects that I use very frequently and my entire
(geospatial) industry relies on. For every single one of those, I contribute
_something_. examples are:
\- I maintain an open window to the IRC channel, lurk, and help when possible
( I can go weeks without doing this, too)
\- Contribute a single line patch to fix something minor
\- Contribute a 1000+ lines of new functionality when I understand the
internals.
\- Subscribe to the mailing list and spend 3 _seconds_ everyday scanning
through that daily digest titles to see if there is something I can comment on
that may be helpful.
\- Do a presentation about that technology in conferences/meet
ups/hackathons/whatever.
\- Sometimes even volunteer to spend a few hours helping with a booth of that
project in a local conference.
\- Watch the Github repo and comment/help with bug reports submissions
\- Submit bug reports
What do I get in return?
Putting aside the amazing conversations I have with people far smarter than I
and the unusual/rewarding friendships/connections I have made, my Open Source
Karma there is off the hook. I get a level of support that cannot be bought.
It is the difference between intrinsic/extrinsic motivators.
In the past, I have run into issues that I have been trying to solve myself
for days. Then I just went over to IRC to ask for help and in less than 10
minutes I had a patch with a fix/workaround from one of the core maintainers
who personally debugged my problem and fixed it. There is no typical
commercial paid support package that will get you that.
This is exactly why the project health of an open source component is measured
in community size/involvement. If you do something minor to give back, you
will get your bug fixed because there are real people behind those projects.
Meanwhile, the douchebag that demands his bug gets fixed because there is some
"implied responsibility to support your package because you are the father of
that project" will get ignored.
~~~
caseysoftware
As the lead to a pair of open source projects - Web2Project and OpenVBX - I
_sincerely_ appreciate people who keep an eye on the lists/forums and respond
to the basic/101-level questions.
Because of efforts like that, I can focus on the deeper or higher level
problems or questions that come up.
If you ever find yourself in Austin, TX or at a Twilio event, let me know.
I'll happily buy you a tasty beverage as gratitude. :)
~~~
rburhum
As somebody that consumes OS like a maniac, thank you! Next time I am in TX I
will take you up on that offer :)
------
agwa
People who feel entitled to have features implemented for them are wrong (and
I agree with the OP about being a "responsible consumer"), but I can't agree
with the OP when he says that Tom Dale (the guy who said "open source is a
responsibility") is wrong.
The context of Tom Dale's quote is a bug in an open source project that rm
-rf'd users' files:
[https://plus.google.com/111465598045192916635/posts/Ckmmbjmv...](https://plus.google.com/111465598045192916635/posts/CkmmbjmvebM)
Does the OP really think open source maintainers don't have a responsibility
to try to prevent that? He talks about the warranty clause in open source
licenses, but the warranty clause is legalese and it's a far cry from how open
source really works. In reality, _most_ open source maintainers take pride in
their work and try to avoid causing harm even though the warranty clause would
technically let them get away with it.
I like the wording of the GPL copyright notice:
"This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT
ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE."
I think that captures the spirit of open source much better: legally we have
no responsibility, but we're still going to try to make it useful.
~~~
felixge
> I think that captures the spirit of open source much better: legally we have
> no responsibility, but we're still going to try to make it useful.
Fully agreed. And I actually think that was TJ's intention when he decided to
merge a pull request without review, since he was no longer interested in the
particular project.
However, Tom is saying: It's better to do nothing than to risk damage. While
that would clearly have been better in this case, I disagree with it. If I
have a project I can no longer maintain, and somebody cares to submit a pull
request, I'll also merge it. Generally speaking it will do more good than
harm.
------
timtadh
Question for the community: How do people feel about open source projects
asking for payment for features? It seems to me that is could be a reasonable
request. It seems presumptuous to ask a random person on the internet to do
work for you and entirely reasonable to request to paid for that work.
Corollary: are open source authors really responsible for anything? It seems
you are responsible for your usage.
~~~
ChuckMcM
Well, RMS has said that its perfectly okay to pay for the _creation_ of
software. Generally I think its fine but it gets distasteful if the person
paying doesn't want their change/code to be part of the main body of work.
That is the whole 'contribute back' issue.
It can be particularly touchy around the whole "person Y pays people X to add
features you want, send the features upstream in a pull, maintainer declines,
customers of Y's product argue that Y is violating the GPL because their
features aren't in the product, Y says 'hey they don't want them', then
customers start yelling at maintainer to take them, and then maintainer feels
bushwhacked."
~~~
pixl97
A company I contract for develops a commercial software package for an
industry. They allow to companies to 'buy' their priority development time for
specialized features with the caveat, any feature that is developed is
released in their mainline package. There are no forks, which over time would
become more and more expensive to maintain. As of this time, I can say the
policy has worked well for them.
------
belorn
Relying on software is always a bit iffy. Be that open source or proprietary
software. At best one can off load some on contractual agreements, be that
social ones like Debian stable or an paper contracts written and paid with a
support company.
However, smart consumers can improve for themselves by choosing more or less
future proof software, and this by looking at the project and the project
group. Things like community driven, historical stable, and a continuous flow
of updates is to me shinning traits of a long term project that one can depend
on.
As a side note, I would like to add that people seems more prone to demand
features and bug fixes from open source projects than they would out of
proprietary software. This is almost exclusive psychological reasons, as
people who spend money (initial investment) on something get motivated to not
see any fault in the product. Other problems is anchoring that free of charge
introduce.
------
jmathai
This is partly why I base the open source software I use primarily on the
project's community first and the technology second.
jQuery and PHP are good examples of software which might not be the "best",
technically. However their community is rock solid and you can get support or
find workarounds to bugs (which might not be fixed soon) pretty easily.
Please don't downvote me for saying something positive about PHP....:)
~~~
salvadors
The central promise of Open Source is not that you can get workarounds for
bugs — it's that you are free to fix any bug yourself (or pay someone else
to). Lots of non-free projects have great support too, but when you fall
through those cracks there's nothing you can do about it. Open Source gives
you a much better promise instead.
~~~
jmathai
I agree. The appeal is that your options for workarounds are orders of
magnitude larger than with non open sourced software. You have a multitude of
options...
\- Workarounds are still important and easier since the software is more
transparent \- The communities are larger so paying someone else is easier \-
Forks exist for a reason \- You could fix it yourself
------
pixl97
TL:DR - No one has to fix your problem unless you represent a significant
portion of their income.
What I take from the whole article is the author severely underestimates the
true cost of software.
FTA: "And while it's not pleasant, this approach has led me to realize, that
in some cases, I simply couldn't afford certain software, even so it was
offered to me at no charge."
This is all software, open source or not, unless you are paying for the direct
development of it. There is plenty of closed source programs that I've seen
companies tied up in that the manufacture quit supporting or wouldn't fix that
cost tens of thousands of dollars in migration fees. The one benefit of open
vs closed is that with open you have the option of posting
"I will pay the first person $1000 to fix X and release the code"
~~~
felixge
> What I take from the whole article is the author severely underestimates the
> true cost of software.
I was talking about the "costs of ownership", not the "costs of development".
And I'd like to think I understand both.
------
salvadors
Assuming that a "proper" Open Source project is one with an active community
and commitments to long term development and growth etc., is detrimental to
simply getting code out there that people can use. There's often an assumption
that even if you're releasing code under a Free/Open license you must want to
almost run it like a startup, paying close attention to the needs of your
"customers" etc.
But there's a whole other side, where you simply take code you're probably
never going to do anything more with ever again, but rather than just letting
it die, you set it free for other people to do something with it if they like.
One of the core Freedoms is the freedom to adapt existing code in whatever way
you like. If something I've written can have some of its innards repurposed
into something someone else needs, and save them a day or two of development
in the meantime, then that's every bit as valid as if I create a black-box
library that tens of thousands of people use (and expect new features from on
an ongoing basis).
IME there is woefully insufficient attention paid to the first of these
approaches.
------
alexpopescu
I probably fall in the category of those that think that authors of open
source projects do have a responsibility for the code they share and its
maintenance.
The main reason I'm saying this is that I feel that the open source world is
not an infinite dump area where everyone just throws out code of any quality
(in many cases just for having something to add on the 2nd page of a résumé).
This is not to say that authors are required to implement additional features
or support a piece of code forever. But trying to deliver as much as the
original "promise" of the project and making it clear what's the status of the
project is the responsibility of the author. Browse GitHub and tell me how
many projects are marked as "defunct" or "abandoned" or "unmaintained". (maybe
Github should automatically do this...)
------
rwj
Demanding that users are available to provide maintenance and feature
improvement is a recipe for far fewer projects being released.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lisping at JPL (2002) - gkya
http://www.flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html
======
lisper
Author here. I'm on the road today so latency will be high but I'm happy to
answer any questions people have. Also, a shameless plug: I'm still coding in
and writing about Lisp. Some currently active projects:
[https://github.com/rongarret/ergolib](https://github.com/rongarret/ergolib)
[https://github.com/rongarret/BWFP](https://github.com/rongarret/BWFP)
[https://github.com/rongarret/tweetnacl/blob/master/tweetnacl...](https://github.com/rongarret/tweetnacl/blob/master/tweetnacl-
bindings.lisp)
And I just finished (but have not yet published) a Lisp implementation of the
Signal double-ratchet. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll publish
that too.
~~~
na85
>... hardware that is 100 million miles away is an interesting experience.
Having a read-eval-print loop running on the spacecraft proved invaluable in
finding and fixing the problem
So...
How exactly does it work to have a repl on the spacecraft?
Doesn't the system halt while it's waiting for user input?
~~~
lisper
No. We used a multi-threaded Lisp. One thread ran the REPL, and other threads
ran the RAX code.
------
codr4life
" One of the reasons I stayed at JPL for twelve years was that I was appalled
at what the software industry had become. The management world has tried to
develop software engineering processes that allow people to be plugged into
them like interchangeable components. The "interface specification" for these
"components" usually involves a list of tools in which an engineer has
received "training." (I really detest the use of the word "training" in
relation to professional activities. Training is what you do to dogs. What you
should be doing with people is educating them, not training them. There is a
big, big difference.)
To my mind, the hallmark of the interchangeable component model of software
engineers is Java. Without going into too many details, I'll just say that
having programmed in Lisp the shortcomings of Java are glaringly obvious, and
programming in Java means a life of continual and unremitting pain. So I vowed
I would never be a Java programmer, which pretty much shut me out of 90% of
all software engineering jobs in the late 90's."
Word, this needs to be seen for what it has turned into if we're ever going to
get out. I've tried every kind of paid software dev setup, it's all abusive
business bullshit these days.
~~~
pjmlp
These days, companies like Google think that even Java is too advanced for cog
developers.
~~~
planteen
What do they push instead? Python? Go? JS?
~~~
notduncansmith
Many language decisions in Go (e.g. lack of generics, baked-in magic
concurrency primitives, extensive focus on imperative looping, baked-in
formatting conventions) are arguably designed to homogenize developer output.
This is essentially making decisions for the developer and limiting
cleverness, but many developers feel a sense of liberation (rather than
limitation) as they are freed from making those decisions, and instead can
settle into the comfortable task of translating natural language into code
(presumably homogenized to as few constructs as possible to make it easier for
Google to train the AI that will replace them).
------
gkya
A famous quote from this article:
_The Remote Agent software, running on a custom port of Harlequin Common
Lisp, flew aboard Deep Space 1 (DS1), the first mission of NASA 's New
Millennium program. Remote Agent controlled DS1 for two days in May of 1999.
During that time we were able to debug and fix a race condition that had not
shown up during ground testing. (Debugging a program running on a $100M piece
of hardware that is 100 million miles away is an interesting experience.
Having a read-eval-print loop running on the spacecraft proved invaluable in
finding and fixing the problem. The story of the Remote Agent bug is an
interesting one in and of itself.)_
------
rurban
I happened to be at the 40th LISP anniversary conference 1998, with John
McCarthy. Erann's JPL talk about the Remote Agent was by far the most
interesting talk there, and I still consider it one of the best conference
talks ever. I'd really like to see the slides being published.
I also attended this famous "dinner with eric" at the same conference,
actually sitting next to Eric and Erann was sitting on the other side:
[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/06/my-dinner-with-
erik.html](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/06/my-dinner-with-erik.html) I
liked Eric a lot, and really enjoyed his troll interactions with Xah Lee, one
of the most famous trolls ever. Unfortunately he didn't know exactly who to
pick a fight with. Erann was clearly the wrong target. Erann hated it. But as
outsiders who stayed out of those silly fights we learned a lot, what boils in
a LISPer. XML especially. Or Windows. Or special variables:
[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/WRQkT57...](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/WRQkT572RQ0/OvN9X5oNq8MJ)
A very good CLL thread btw. Most of the people agreed with Eric, even if
Erann's proposal was very good.
(I used his old name to be able to look things up. The name change happened
much later, when Erann got married and choose a better name, Ron Garret.)
PS: Eric said 99 in his lugm blog post, but I'm pretty sure it was 98.
[http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html](http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html)
PPS: I found some old RA material here:
[https://web.archive.org/web/19991014000627/http://www-
aig.jp...](https://web.archive.org/web/19991014000627/http://www-
aig.jpl.nasa.gov/public/home/gat/) but mostly for ESL (the control language),
not the actual RA simulation and HW stuff he was emulating.
~~~
gkya
There's this (edit: 2012 Google Tech Talks) video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZK0tW8EhQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZK0tW8EhQ)
"The Remote Agent Experiment: Debugging Code from 60 Million Miles Away" by
Ron Garret. IDK how similar it is to the 1998 talk by him you refer to. I
guess he's around here by the nick "lisper".
~~~
rurban
Yes, that's about the same content. Excellent, thanks a lot.
I often think about how to control or even reboot a CPU out there in space,
running on slow hardened HW (cosmic rays shooting at you), and if you make a
small mistake and the thing doesn't boot up properly the whole mission is
lost. You must be really sure about the root cause of your problem, and
properly analyze it (hence his simulation), otherwise no chance.
Like a reboot via SSH, just a bit trickier, because nobody will be able to
help you.
------
wtbob
> I can't even say the word Lisp without cementing my reputation as a crazy
> lunatic who thinks Lisp is the Answer to Everything. So I keep my mouth shut
> (mostly) and watch helplessly as millions of tax dollars get wasted.
I've been there too, only in the commercial world watching corporate profit be
wasted. It's really disheartening to see the computing world re-invent
S-expressions badly (first as XML, then as JSON) and reinvent Lisp badly (e.g.
JavaScript). Lisp really is awesome, and it really is the best language of
which I'm aware, if for no other reason that if one wants to do enough
programming _in_ the language, then one can implement any other language,
seamlessly.
~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
> in the commercial world watching corporate profit be wasted
And, somehow, the beancounters with the spreadsheets to squeeze the last
microdollar from an operation have not hit on a way to make money from this in
sixty years.
Puzzling.
------
sdfaasdf
You have to know "design patterns" they said. You have to know Java they
said.... and then I knew I was in the world of "professional" software. Sigh.
------
gaius
People have this idea of scientists in general and NASA in particular as being
purely objective and data-driven and let the science speak for itself, but
articles like this illustrate that they are _at least_ as political and
irrational as any commercial entity.
~~~
gkya
Politics is a human thing, it is an artifact of interaction of persons and
peoples. And irrationalness is as human as a fart, you know it's rude and it's
wrong, but sometimes it happens. The fact is, we're hard-wired to be politic,
irrational and superstitious.
~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
> sometimes
mostly always
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Monokai Pro Theme for Visual Studio Code - monokai_nl
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=monokai.theme-monokai-pro-vscode
======
Zekio
Looks like a great theme, but 10 bucks for a theme and you have to pay for
both VS Code and Sublime text if you want to use both... guess I won't be
trying it out
~~~
monokai_nl
What do you think would be a fair price?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: New passwords - rjett
I just got an email from "[email protected]" giving me a new password with no other explanation. What's this all about?
======
templaedhel
You perhaps used clickpass to login. PG was discussing removing it here
<http://hackerne.ws/item?id=3085168>, and if you depended on it, it would make
sense to email you a password so you can log in.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook Is Adding Unsend Message Tool After CEO Caught Unsending - corkscrew
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-06/facebook-adding-unsend-message-tool-after-ceo-caught-unsending
======
dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16774183](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16774183)
------
idax
I feel like this is a really hasty product decision based on the continually
poor PR raining down on Facebook. Nobody cares that the highest level
executive cleared old messages (From 2010) to protect himself and the company
for security reasons. This seems like a really weird move to try and please
the public on an unassociated data privacy war.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Atlas by Hashicorp - danielsiders
https://atlas.hashicorp.com
======
alexatkeplar
Great to see the Hashicorp vision coming together across the individual tools!
We are huge fans of Vagrant ([https://github.com/snowplow/dev-
environment](https://github.com/snowplow/dev-environment)) and Packer at
Snowplow. Just starting to experiment with Serf and potentially Consul. The
"Hashicorp way" of devops has really helped us too.
The only real weakness I see in the stack is Terraform. The elephant in the
room is CloudFormation, and being built in Golang, Terraform is bounded by the
functionality of Hashicorp's own AWS client lib
([https://github.com/mitchellh/goamz](https://github.com/mitchellh/goamz)),
which hugely (and inevitably, given it's not a blessed 3rd-party library like
boto) lags the official AWS clients (compare to e.g.
[https://github.com/aws/aws-sdk-java](https://github.com/aws/aws-sdk-java)).
It's going to take something radical for Terraform to be relevant to
sophisticated AWS users.
~~~
eikenberry
Goamz suffers from the same problem that all the libraries that try to hide
the actual API do... that they can't keep up. Even boto has this problem as
keeping up with the latest version isn't always easy.
IMO the best of the AWS libs is github.com/bmizerany/aws4. It only wraps the
auth, the API and results are up to you. This requires more work but means you
never have to worry about the lib keeping up with the API. With something that
moves as fast as AWS this is great.
~~~
alexatkeplar
I'm not sure that's true of all the client libraries - I'm pretty sure that
the Java library is used heavily internally within Amazon to leverage AWS
services. Just look at the release history: [https://github.com/aws/aws-sdk-
java/releases](https://github.com/aws/aws-sdk-java/releases)
But you're right, maintaining even a blessed third-party library like boto is
a massive undertaking: 437 contributors, 431 open issues, 192 open PRs.
Competing against CloudFormation using anything other than the Java client
library is crazy IMO.
~~~
Rapzid
The .NET sdk is pretty fantastic as well.
But anyway, goamz is "Hashicorp's" AWS Go SDK in that Hashicorp forked it and
refused to work with the larger community because it's "critical" to their
business. This has, at least until super recently, stranded certain
functionality into the different forks and severely fractured the AWS Go
offerings. True story.
Ultimately, what the Go community probably needs most is Amazon to step up and
support a Go SDK officially. The Java, Ruby, .Net, and even Python SDK's are
very robust at this point. I can't speak to the others.
~~~
alexatkeplar
Good to hear about the .NET library. I hadn't heard the story about goamz,
that's unfortunate. I do know that there are SDKs which Amazon _only_ make
available in Java and Python, e.g. the Kinesis Client Library
([http://docs.aws.amazon.com/kinesis/latest/dev/kinesis-
record...](http://docs.aws.amazon.com/kinesis/latest/dev/kinesis-record-
processor-app.html)).
------
dang
A related TechCrunch story:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8727842](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8727842).
We're probably going to build a way to group related stories more explicitly,
but manually posted comments will have to do for now.
~~~
kolev
Maybe we should establish a linking convention so that these can be converted
later more easily. For example, <url> #related.
------
jzelinskie
There have been some cool tools coming out of Hashicorp, but I haven't read
any experiences with people using their "full stack". Does anybody want to
give their own anecdote or maybe have a link to related article?
~~~
tonglil
\- Vagrant is a given, wonderful.
\- Packer is for syncing VirtualBox, AWS AMIs, and what not for quick and
stable starting points, also wonderful.
\- Consul is great for monitoring and running a services oriented
architecture, haven't pushed it to its full potential though.
\- Serf: n/a, haven't tried yet.
\- Terraform: n/a.
We are still using Ansible as the provisioner.
Overall, good ecosystem, would recommend.
~~~
porker
> \- Vagrant is a given, wonderful.
It's really useful, but on my MBP I've found using it abysmally slow
(VirtualBox backend, website code shared using NFS, DB and everything else
stored in VirtualBox VM and not shared folders) - page load times taking
upwards of 20s (sometimes even a minute) when running direct on my MBP would
be under 0.3s.
Never figured out the issue, in spite of extensive research and tweaking.
Replace VirtualBox with VMWare Fusion? But without a trial available of the
Vagrant addon, bit of an expensive gamble.
~~~
jesseendahl
Apparently syncing file changes between the VM and host via rsync leads to a
lot better performance than using NFS. Worth a shot at least:
[https://www.vagrantup.com/blog/feature-preview-
vagrant-1-5-r...](https://www.vagrantup.com/blog/feature-preview-
vagrant-1-5-rsync.html) [http://www.midwesternmac.com/blogs/jeff-geerling/nfs-
rsync-a...](http://www.midwesternmac.com/blogs/jeff-geerling/nfs-rsync-and-
shared-folder)
------
keithchambers
We use Vagrant, Packer, and Consul with multiple SaaS products here at Cisco.
We love the Hashicorp product family and team!
------
wallflower
Great job, Hashicorp!
Exciting to see the shift from clunky, heavy-weight versioned Chef
cookbooks/Puppet modules that attempt to prevent 'server drift' by walking the
directed graph for all dependencies with server convergence to true service
registries like Consul and build images.
Amazon CloudFormation is pretty clunky when it comes to updating user data in
the CF stack template that is passed to the resources. Sometimes it even
thinks you didn't update anything. Having the file-based template update
itself via consul-template seems like a more sane approach.
I am curious how the 'Maintain' part of the autoscaling works given that
Amazon AWS has pretty crude autoscaling mechanisms available if you use only
what CloudWatch offers. Hoping that 'Maintain' can be given a set of inputs on
server health/application responsiveness and decide whether to scale up or
scale down.
Also, integration with some kind of historical/real-time cost engine would be
a great feature to figure out future/past billing for cloud services.
------
hardwaresofton
As many have said, Hashicorp is awesome.
What I particularly like about their products and their sites is that they
take time to properly explain (and explain clearly) how their products fit
into your stack, and what their intended use case is. Rather than random
"we're working on something that will change devops forever" or similar
marketing speak, the Atlas site lays out exactly what their vision for dev and
ops is. The "how atlas works" section is brilliant.
I know I'm just repeating what others have said, but as usual, great work.
I think a lot of the work that Amazon has released this past few weeks is
trying to get into precisely this space. To be the only company behind your
code from development to deployment. I might be wrong, but I think hashicorp
is in that space right with them.
------
tobz
What is a node in terms of pricing?
Kinda/sorta feels like a stranglehold to have this remaining piece of the
Hashicorp puzzle be free and then to start charging for it. :(
~~~
mitchellh
Unlike our open source projects, Atlas is not shipping any foundational new
functionality; it is unifying our open source projects into a single solution
with a UI, security (ACLs, audits), workflow, etc. This differentiates it in
being a commercial product and we feel this is a really clean way to do it.
We've avoided any open core awkwardness and our business model is clear.
To put it another way, we use an analogy internally here at HashiCorp: our
open source are our "nuts and bolts" that you can grab off the shelf and be
very successful with in building robust systems, but Atlas is the complete car
or house (built up from these nuts and bolts) that you can purchase.
------
tapsboy
Great job Hashicorp. Couldn't find my favorited public boxes, but could
discover new boxes here
[https://vagrantcloud.com/boxes/search](https://vagrantcloud.com/boxes/search)
------
coreylane
It's hidden right now but if you'd like to search for boxes use
[https://atlas.hashicorp.com/boxes/search](https://atlas.hashicorp.com/boxes/search)
------
eaurouge
Any plans to support other providers, like DigitalOcean for instance?
~~~
mitchellh
Many, many more providers are along the way. The providers already exist in
the open source so its just a matter of enabling them one at a time in Atlas.
But we have some surprises planned for some of them as well. :)
------
ishbits
I wonder if there will still be a free tier, a place to drop decent base nodes
or images demoing open source and so on.
~~~
mitchellh
There will, across all the features.
------
akurilin
Looks very interesting! Would be great to get an idea of what a typical
workflow with this paradigm would look like.
~~~
kfish
There’s a getting started guide to walkthrough a typical workflow:
[https://atlas.hashicorp.com/help/getting-started/getting-
sta...](https://atlas.hashicorp.com/help/getting-started/getting-started-
overview)
In short:
\- `vagrant up` to bring up a development enviornment and make application
changes
\- `vagrant push` to send application code
\- `packer push` to package software requirements to produce an artifact (AMI,
Docker container, VMware image, many more)
\- `terraform apply` to deploy artifacts
Important to note that each of these commands can be executed by different
people in different sequences, and all changes are tracked in the Atlas
Dashboard/UI.
~~~
mitchellh
I want to add to what Kevin said here (and disclaim that he is a HashiCorp
employee) by saying that in a few months all of these steps will be possible
via the web UI and without a command line interface or any knowledge of our
open source at all. That is the direction we're heading.
The current form of Atlas requires usage of our open source and is a tech
preview showing what is coming and the direction we're heading. It is very
much functional but we're going to make it a very slick system that does all
of this for you without a CLI. For example, Atlas currently already runs
Packer for you on our servers. We're going to extend that to everything.
------
niclupien
Atlas as a project name seems very popular these days (Facebook Atlas API,
o'Reilly Atlas platform, etc).
------
tsukassa
Just in case someone is looking for something that already works and is open-
source, we have been working on ĵeto for over a year (
[http://jeto.io](http://jeto.io) ). You can host it on your own premises and
there is support for many providers out of the box(vmware, lxc, amazon). The
idea is pretty much the same, you have your vagrant project which calls
different providers.
You can checkout the dev version ( [https://github.com/Pheromone/jeto-
dev](https://github.com/Pheromone/jeto-dev) ) which prepackage everything.
Proper documentation/tests and a real Getting Started guide is coming.
------
joesmo
Vagrant has so many bugs in development (network issues, file syncing issues)
that I switched to manually building my own VMs _to save time_. I would never
use it or any tech built on top of it in development, let alone production.
~~~
robinricard
For all of the issues I have been facing, most of them were actually triggered
by virtualbox. Those issues can be quite annoying but can be solved quite
easily if you don't have other VB VMs. Usually, resetting the vbox subnets (I
had major issues with those) does the job. On the other side, Vagrant has got
some minor issues but let's face it: doing what Vagrant does manually is huge
and I prefer composing with those issues than being on my own. When VB works
well and don't cause any problem, you can do quite complex setups with
Vagrant. I already created a swarm of 5 VMs on my machine to test my
deployments locally: Vagrant may not be imperatively useful for developers but
I think it's essential for everyone working on deployment and having the devs
using it too can greatly improve the life of those deploying the apps. One
last point: Vagrant is not made for production and I think Hashicorp has been
pretty clear on that. I never tested packer/terraform or consul so I won't say
anything on the production-side of what they're doing but I won't judge it
until I actually used it. Vagrant may have evolved since the last time you
used it, you should give it another chance !
~~~
joesmo
I would consider using it again if I really had to for more than just quickly
testing a VM, but to be honest, after wasting days with problems (which the
vagrant team is aware of) and then having it fail again and again, I'm not
very inclined to. I can see why vagrant encourages a workflow where one
destroys the VMs regularly as that would likely avoid a ton of issues at the
expense of time wasted.
My VMWare machines have been problem free for many months (as well as my
manual VBox ones for years) and the only way I'd even consider using it daily
again by choice again is to try out their VMWare support ... which is
unfortunately paid so I doubt that will happen. On the other hand, using
vagrant did point out some severe weaknesses in VirtualBox itself, especially
the file syncing support, and made me realize VMWare is worth the money for
that alone. I still use vagrant once in awhile if I only need to test a
project out for an hour or two.
As far as deployment, I could see the potential time savings when dealing with
multiple VMs but those would only be realized if they're not offset by a
longer time spent dealing with bugs. Still, I may give it another shot in that
context when the need arises next.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Android Soong Build System - pjmlp
https://source.android.com/setup/build/index
======
Multicomp
Can any experienced Android developers weigh in on if the claim that Soong is
better than Make generally holds?
MAKE has been used across the industry for large codebases - why is it no
longer good enough for a mobile app?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to replace 30 laptops (and $10,000) with 150 sheets of paper - alxp
http://ruk.ca/content/how-replace-30-laptops-and-10000-150-sheets-paper
======
chime
At my old programming job, people would come up to me all the time asking if I
could write programs to automate business processes. One day someone called a
meeting to discuss a new software system that would help prevent incorrect box
labels from being stuck on finished goods. She explained that the problem was
that label designs change frequently and sometimes older, expired labels get
used instead of the new labels. Mistakes like that are expensive to rectify
and though we have many failsafes in place (lot tracking with expiration,
multiple QC inspection stages etc.), the only surefire way to prevent errors
would be to compare the customer-approved "Master" label for each production
job with one of the printed sticky labels before a job starts.
Her group's suggestion was that I build a simple system that maintains an
electronic catalog of all the Master labels for all the production jobs, and
before each job is run, a production employee would scan in a sample of the
printed box labels. Then my system could do its magic and let the employee
know if the Master label matches the printed label. If so, they can continue
with production.
As I listened to their request, cogs were already starting to turn in my
brain: CRUD system to manage Master labels, versioning for each label,
preassigning Masters to specific jobs based on customer approval, scanning
labels from the manufacturing area, graphical diff. with auto-orientation
matching, and documenting/validating this entire system. Hmm. Let's see if
there is an easier way.
Me: Why can't the production employees compare the labels by just looking at
them?
Her: Because sometimes it's just a few sentences or design elements that
change. It's easy to miss and has happened a few times.
Me: Who provides us the Master labels?
Her: The customer. And we make it a part of the production paperwork well-in-
advance and get it approved by the customer so there is never a mixup on the
Master itself.
Me: Sounds logical. How are the sticky labels printed?
Her: Depends. We may print them ourselves if it's just a few hundred or get
them printed by label vendors for large quantities. We may reuse them in
multiple jobs and so may warehouse them for future use.
Me: So before every production job, someone goes to the warehouse, looks for a
stack of printed labels in the racks by Item# / Bin#, and brings them back to
the production room?
Her: Yes. And that's when errors happen. They might bring back the wrong
version of the label and not realize it. Or people in the previous shift might
have returned unused labels into the wrong bin etc.
Me: OK. So just to recap, our production team can get the correct Master label
every time because it is part of the paperwork already approved by the
customer, but errors happen because there could be 10 very similar versions of
the same label in the warehouse and the employee might pick the wrong one.
Her: Correct.
Me: One way to prevent such errors would be to add Version# to every lot of
every label item we have in the warehouse and have the barcode scanners block
movement of incorrect versions, however that requires a tremendous effort of
data-entry, programming, and training.
Her: Absolutely. That's why we just want to compare the Master with the
printed samples automatically.
Me: What size are these Master labels in?
Her: Centered on regular 8.5x11.
Me: And the printed labels are also centered on 8.5x11 and same size as the
Master labels?
Her: Yes.
Me: What if the prodution employee photocopies the Master label to a
transparency sheet and overlays it on the printed labels? I know we have
copiers in the area.
_silence_
_everyone looks at each other and nods in agreement_
Her: That'll work. Thanks everyone. Let's get some lunch.
~~~
esc
I'm quite impressed that your suggestion was accepted, in the company where I
work this would never happen.
An example: I was asked to build a system to keep track of daily tasks of one
of our teams, and to make sure all scheduled tasks were assigned to someone.
As I was listening to them, I suddenly realized that the magnetic white-board
on the meeting room wall was all they needed. I drew a table with team-members
names and weekdays and used the magnets as tasks.
After some silence the team supervisor said it would work, but would not be
used because: a) it looks 'unprofessional'; b) it's 'insecure' because someone
could mess up the magnets by accident
After some emails between my manager and them my colleague was ordered to
build the system, he ended up spending about 3 weeks on it :)
~~~
chime
It was a relatively small company and people really tried their best to solve
problems in efficient ways. I think they missed the obvious solution purely by
chance.
------
F_J_H
Reminds me of this story:
[http://www.lixo.org/archives/2008/07/21/networks-are-
smart-a...](http://www.lixo.org/archives/2008/07/21/networks-are-smart-at-the-
edges/)
A toothpaste factory had a problem: they sometimes shipped empty boxes,
without the tube inside. This was due to the way the production line was set
up, and people with experience in designing production lines will tell you how
difficult it is to have everything happen with timings so precise that every
single unit coming out of it is perfect 100% of the time. Small variations in
the environment (which can’t be controlled in a cost-effective fashion) mean
you must have quality assurance checks smartly distributed across the line so
that customers all the way down the supermarket don’t get pissed off and buy
someone else’s product instead.
Understanding how important that was, the CEO of the toothpaste factory got
the top people in the company together and they decided to start a new
project, in which they would hire an external engineering company to solve
their empty boxes problem, as their engineering department was already too
stretched to take on any extra effort.
The project followed the usual process: budget and project sponsor allocated,
RFP, third-parties selected, and six months (and $8 million) later they had a
fantastic solution — on time, on budget, high quality and everyone in the
project had a great time. They solved the problem by using some high-tech
precision scales that would sound a bell and flash lights whenever a
toothpaste box weighing less than it should. The line would stop, and someone
had to walk over and yank the defective box out of it, pressing another button
when done.
A while later, the CEO decides to have a look at the ROI of the project:
amazing results! No empty boxes ever shipped out of the factory after the
scales were put in place. Very few customer complaints, and they were gaining
market share. “That’s some money well spent!” – he says, before looking
closely at the other statistics in the report.
It turns out, the number of defects picked up by the scales was 0 after three
weeks of production use. It should’ve been picking up at least a dozen a day,
so maybe there was something wrong with the report. He filed a bug against it,
and after some investigation, the engineers come back saying the report was
actually correct. The scales really weren’t picking up any defects, because
all boxes that got to that point in the conveyor belt were good.
Puzzled, the CEO travels down to the factory, and walks up to the part of the
line where the precision scales were installed. A few feet before it, there
was a $20 desk fan, blowing the empty boxes out of the belt and into a bin.
“Oh, that — one of the guys put it there ’cause he was tired of walking over
every time the bell rang”, says one of the workers.
~~~
zwieback
If you think the moral of the story is that $8M were wasted due to bad
management or whatever you'd be wrong. The scales were a success because they
enabled the desk fan solution. Manufacturing line operators are very clever
but they don't necessarily have the right incentive. The loss to the company
wasn't visible but the horns and flashing lights were.
I used to build inspection systems for manufacturing lines and we'd frequently
build expensive (not $8M, though) vision systems, E-Testers, etc. just to
uninstall them a year or two later when the process or automation guys had
found a way to prevent problems from happening in the first place.
~~~
billswift
If not "bad management", what _would_ you call that kind of mismatch of
incentives?
~~~
zwieback
Ok, good point. A better way to incent is to offer bounties for yield
improvements. Most manufacturing outfits I've seen have those but they are
probably too low.
Here's another problem mentioned in the article, in fact it's maybe the real
problem: the engineers "who were already stretched too thin" probably didn't
talk to their operators and technicians often enough. When I was a
manufacturing engineer I noticed how much I learned about the stuff I was
building by simply hanging around the operators for significant amounts of
time. Not only did I get a lot of information about the subtle ways my systems
were failing, I also learned that the operators generally felt engineering was
ignoring their concerns. Just listening and trying to make the operators' life
better earned me so much cooperation from the floor I later had no problems
getting them to try out new things for me and providing me feedback on
"improvements".
------
T-hawk
The professor for my software engineering course in college posed a problem
with a non-tech answer similarly.
You have a cabin in the woods, with electricity and a freezer. You go hunting
and bag a deer with much more meat than can be used in one visit, so you
freeze it for use on a future visit. But you want to know while you are away
if the electricity fails for any length of time so that the meat may have
thawed and spoiled.
After the class spent most of a period arguing over remote monitoring systems
and temperature sensors and the like, the professor revealed the simple
answer. Freeze a block of ice in the freezer and mark its height. If it is
shorter when you return, the power was out so some of it melted.
~~~
ssharp
There is an anecdote I've read a few times:
"During the space race back in the 1960's, NASA was faced with a major
problem. The astronaut needed a pen that would write in the vacuum of space.
NASA went to work. At a cost of $1.5 million they developed the "Astronaut
Pen". Some of you may remember. It enjoyed minor success on the commercial
market.
The Russians were faced with the same dilemma.
They used a pencil."
The idea is to show outcome-oriented thinking. The desired outcome wasn't to
use a pen, but rather, to simply write or record.
~~~
jonknee
That anecdote happens to be false though. The Astronaut Pen was made
independently of NASA and was sold to them (and Russia) like it's sold to the
public. Wood pencils pose trouble in zero-g (graphite dust, broken tips,
flammable wood, etc).
<http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp>
~~~
ssharp
I knew that the anecdote was false and forgot to add that. The point wasn't to
show up NASA or research. The point was to show outcome-oriented thought.
~~~
jonknee
It was still very poor outcome-oriented thought. There are dangers associated
with pencils that are solved by a pen. Space flight's outcome should be
safety, so regardless the answer won't end up being a pencil.
~~~
ssharp
I think it still works fine as a basic metaphor to help illustrate the idea.
The metaphor doesn't need to be 100% inline to do that and expecting it to
seems a bit pedantic.
Speaking of pedantic, a flight's outcome is not really safety, nor was space
flight what the folklore mentions. It was addressing the requirement to
write/record in space.
------
orangecat
The building I work in installed a kiosk as the office directory. Normally
there's a screen saver running; after touching the screen you get a static
list of the 10 business occupants and their floors. I'm not convinced this was
the best use of resources.
~~~
timerickson
...but boy, oh boy is that screensaver interesting!
------
ctdonath
Worth recalling "The Breakfast Food Cooker"
<http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_while/toaster.htm>
------
jtchang
It's refreshing to see a non tech solution every now and then. As
technologists we have to learn when and when not to apply technology
solutions. This just happens to be one of those cases.
~~~
tzs
When I took the intro digital logic course at Caltech in the late '70s or
early '80s, the textbook had a chapter at the end called something like "The
Engineer as Dope Pusher" that urged engineers to not get carried away by
technology.
An example he gave was designing a timer for a clothes dryer. The user needs
to be able to specify how long to try the clothes. The dryer should run for
that long and stop.
The standard solution was a mechanical timer. It had a dial. The consumer
turned the dial to the appropriate time, the dryer started, and when the timer
ticked down the dryer stopped.
Engineers were starting to replace these with digital solutions. The digital
solution was a lot more fun for the engineer. He'd get to design some
circuitry, maybe use a microprocessor. He'd need a power supply for the
electronics. He could have buttons and a nifty LED display. Maybe have
preprogrammed drying times.
That's a hell of a lot more fun for the engineer than to just specify sticking
some commodity mechanical timer in there like his father and grandfather would
have done.
However, the mechanical timer is cheaper, easier to build into the dryer, more
reliable, and easier to use for the consumer. There is no advantage whatsoever
to the consumer or the dryer company in using the custom digital solution--it
serves no purpose other than the entertain the engineer who designs it.
~~~
whatusername
If the custom digital solution looks newer/fancier/better on the showroom
floor then there is an advantage to the dryer company.
------
dhughes
Good idea, not everything has to use a computer just because we have them.
It's only 150 sheets of paper too it's not like it's reams of the stuff (it's
just about 1/4 of a ream) otherwise people would be tempted to use a laptop to
be 'green'.
Local guy makes it to HN. And I'll be voting in October.
------
orofino
Interesting, reminds me of a practical exam we had in intro to programming
class that was taught in Java. We were asked to implement a FIFO data
structure class with methods push and pop (something along these lines).
We'd just learned about OO principles and extending classes the week before.
After reading the task for the practical I nervously raised my hand, "Would it
be acceptable to just extend array list and create methods just named as
described but using the existing methods?" The teacher kind of looked at me
blankly and said yes.
I was the first person finished, no one else apparently thought of that
approach. I'm not a programmer, but given that we'd just discussed this days
before it seemed like an obvious solution...
~~~
mmatants
The exam was probably mostly about the algorithms involved in managing FIFO
data. Whether you extend an array list or create a custom class wrapping a
buffer does not change the algorithm. Hence the blank look from the teacher.
~~~
Jach
Keyword there being exam. I think that's a great approach for a high-enough
level course; that is, let the students do whatever they want with whatever
language they want in the assignments (hard to generalize a build-test-diff
system though for submissions), then test concepts on the test.
I have a friend in a Python intro whose assignment was to make a program
encrypting user input with the Caesar Cipher and (optionally) decrypting, and
optionally supporting ROT13 as well. I'm pretty sure the teacher wanted them
using ord(), chr(), for loops, etc., but the solution I suggested after my
friend tried that way is much simpler:
import string
normal = 'abcd...ABCD...'
caesar = 'defg...DEFG...'
caesar_table = string.maketrans(normal, caesar)
reverse_caesar_table = string.maketrans(caesar, normal)
msg.translate(caesar_table) # for encryption
msg.translate(reverse_caesar_table) # for decryption
Add in string.ascii_letters, string.ascii_uppercase, string.ascii_lowercase,
and collections.deque (for string rotation) to generalize the alphabet sets,
it was all very simple. And used a completely different 'algorithm' of a
translation table that's done in C and performs super-fast, easily handles
non-ascii characters (since the translation just leaves them alone), easily
generalizable to whatever simple encryption scheme, etc.
Of course my friend doesn't want to learn programming therefore everything's
complicated and she doesn't remember anything and even after 6 months which
ends in a couple weeks I doubt she could do FizzBuzz. :(
------
mkramlich
paper & pencil can handle exceptional cases and ad hoc formats much better
than software, that's for sure. one reason I still love notebooks like
Moleskine, and blank scrap paper. Old tech: it's cheap and Just Works (tm).
~~~
thebooktocome
Moleskine is hardly cheap.
~~~
mkramlich
depends on perspective
cheapo paper notebook: $1
Moleskine: $10
iOS device: $200 - $700 plus opt $30-100/mo (forget cur rates)
Yes, I know you can do more with an iPad/iPhone, obvious, but there is some
overlap and paper is arguably better in certain common use cases. Always use
the best tool for the job. And I have way greater confidence that the content
of my Moleskines will be around in 10 years, than the content of my
iPhone/iPad/PC/Mac. And no company can shut me out of it.
~~~
thebooktocome
I'm certainly not arguing that iPhone/iPad is better.
I have cheapo paper notebooks from ten years ago. I don't understand how
Moleskines are better.
------
romaniv
This goes to show that a good designer or engineer is not just someone who
"solves the problem", but someone who considers alternate solutions and solves
the problem in the most efficient way that is practically feasible.
Unfortunately, it's often the case that no one thinks about it until the
"default" way of solving the problem becomes pretty much impossible to use.
------
zwieback
Oregonian here - all our voting is by mail, no technology needed to route
voters.
------
daedhel
This is true, unless the move to technology was a way to control the results
of the poll...
------
lwhi
Isn't this how most polls work?
At least, AFAIK, they work this way in the UK.
------
chopsueyar
Cannot wait for the IPO.
------
jcarreiro
Why not just have everyone vote on their iPhone?
~~~
mikle
If you are really serious, does that mean that the county must provide iPhones
to those that <GASP> don't have one?
~~~
jcarreiro
I was being a bit facetious, yes. But voting electronically would solve this
problem, assuming that you could trust the voting software!
Public terminals could be provided for citizens without computers/smart
phones/netbooks/tablets/implants/whatever.
~~~
jcarreiro
Just curious: am I being voted down for suggesting that a society use
electronic voting? If so, oh, the irony!
~~~
archangel_one
I imagine you've been downvoted (not by me) because it was an overly
simplistic answer - it's obviously not as easy as "have everyone vote
electronically". The various debacles with voting machines over the past few
years have shown that you can't simply assume the software is trustworthy, let
alone having people dialling in to vote on their own phone.
And the point of the article was that more technology may not always be the
best solution...
------
Bud
Whoa. That paper stuff could really catch on! Perhaps someone could print a
Bible on it.
(editing this comment after downvoting to add content, and my apologies for
being sarcastic and content-free): Effective data presentation, graphic design
and such are technology. Showing all the data at once is often much more
effective than hiding it in an invisible database.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Azure Status - jjp
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/status/
======
Something1234
What exactly is notable about this?
------
adamvalve
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Viviti launches three new partner programs, and built in domain support. - viviti
http://blog.viviti.com/entries/general/viviti-launches-a-brand-new-website-three-new-partner-programs-and-built-in-domain-support
======
viviti
To read the full press release please go here:
<http://viviti.com/assets/releases/03-22-2010-NewRelease.pdf>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
POP User Meetup (1/26) in San Francisco - leolin
http://www.eventbrite.com/event/632679361
======
dreamerslab
We are visiting SF and would like to meet up with POP users for feedback :)
------
jinhow
excited!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Mobile wallet offered to UK shoppers - nootopian
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13457071
======
chrisjsmith
Limited usability I think considering it applies to only Orange customers with
Barclays accounts. Typically in the UK, it's virtually impossible to get any
banks and/or mobile companies to standardise on technology (think debit cards:
VISA/Switch/Solo/PO etc) so I can only see problems and more market
fragmentation appear.
~~~
timthorn
I don't believe the standardisation point is true. The banks came together to
create the EMV (Eurocard - Mastercard - Visa) standards, which define eg how
chip & pin works. The mobile industry is also very big on standards.
The issue is about who owns the customer. There's the one secure element (the
SIM/bank card chip) - who should own that? Technically both operator and bank
can coexist on the same card, but the commercial position is not so simple.
~~~
chrisjsmith
I was talking about before that with the old Switch/Solo junk that went on. I
did a spell working for an e-commerce outfit and integrating with the merchant
banks was an absolute nightmare.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Interactive Science Fiction Film for the Web - evanPollen
http://www.rememberspook.com/
======
celticninja
I have bookmarked this for later mainly because the story was written by Jeff
Noon. He wrote some of my favourite books ever (Vurt, Pollen, Automated Alice
amongst others) although he went in a very different direction later in his
career with Cobralingus, Falling out of Cars and Needle in the Groove. I am
looking forward to watching this.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Parallels Apple's ARM Announcement - dmmalam
https://forum.parallels.com/threads/apples-arm-announcement.350218/
======
AnonC
> Hello,
> We do not have any information regarding this at this time. Thanks for
> understanding.
> Maria@Parallels (Parallels Team)
Guess everyone will have more information in a week or two after the Developer
Transition Kits (DTK) have reached many developers and they try to push it in
different ways to learn about things Apple hasn’t explicitly commented on.
------
plodman
I think the link should really be to their blog post?
[https://www.parallels.com/blogs/apple-silicon-
wwdc/](https://www.parallels.com/blogs/apple-silicon-wwdc/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Free calculators for anything: perfect hardboiled eggs to blackhole temperatures - ergwre
School’s started so these free online tools can be lifesavers:<p>http://www.wolframalpha.com - Mega knowledge engine. Good for checking work and trying things out. Not free for the step-by-step solutions.<p>https://www.fxsolver.com - alternative to Wolfram Alpha for solving math and engineering problems quickly. Large library of equations to check, edit, calculate and plot.<p>https://www.cymath.com - Nice step-by-step solutions. Math-centric.<p>http://www.symbolab.com - Really good for step-by-step solutions to math problems. Cymath alternative.<p>https://www.desmos.com - Amazing for plots.<p>https://www.mathway.com - Cool math solver and chemistry solver. Plotting somewhat similar to Desmos.<p>https://www.omnicalculator.com - Cool, straightforward calculator for quick results.
======
ergwre
active hyperlinks:
[http://www.wolframalpha.com](http://www.wolframalpha.com)
[https://www.fxsolver.com](https://www.fxsolver.com)
[https://www.cymath.com](https://www.cymath.com)
[http://www.symbolab.com](http://www.symbolab.com)
[https://www.desmos.com](https://www.desmos.com)
[https://www.mathway.com](https://www.mathway.com)
[https://www.omnicalculator.com](https://www.omnicalculator.com)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fix a Parking Ticket? There's an App for That - steven
https://medium.com/backchannel/fix-a-parking-ticket-theres-an-app-for-that-26efeedfd1fc
======
patio11
Wait until this isn't for parking tickets but rather for Social Security
disability determinations or VA mid-term disability determinations or Illinois
DOT public right-of-way ingress/egress waivers or...
Crystallized knowledge of how to play the bureaucracy game, in a box, backed
up by a pool of people you can grant e.g. Power of Attorney to is _freaking
brilliant_. If it helps, think of it as exposing a web/mobile UI to City Hall
without them having to figure out how to do that or upset stakeholders whose
jobs are created by Form 213B. Except it is even bigger than that implies.
~~~
icelancer
Please god, yes. The government will never solve its own bureaucracy. I am so
willing to pay a third party to do it for me.
~~~
scott_karana
So, let me get this straight. A byzantine, monetarily burdensome system is so
overwhelming that we should institute and pay _yet another system_ to "solve"
the problem?
Crazy.
~~~
twoodfin
The point is that it shifts the incentives: Previously, only a few cranks
would contest parking tickets—everyone else would either pay them or ignore
them—so issuing them had essentially no bureaucratic cost. Now, if every
citizen with a smartphone can make work for someone behind a desk at City
Hall, there's a substantially greater impulse to set parking enforcement
policy in a way that's fair and likely to survive scrutiny.
~~~
derobert
That's not the only incentive, unfortunately. The folks fixing tickets would
like there to be more invalid tickets issued; that's how they make money.
Worry about winding up with something line how Intuit (TurboTax) lobbies
against the IRS making tax filing easier.
[http://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-maker-linked-
to-g...](http://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-maker-linked-to-
grassroots-campaign-against-free-simple-tax-filing)
------
dfxm12
I know of cities that seem to be working actively against its residents with
arcane laws about when, where and who is allowed to park in a specific spot at
a specific time, so I'm glad someone is sticking up for the little guy.
However, I wish government was transparent enough that services like this
weren't needed. Why do I have to take a day off from work to fight a ticket
whose fee is (probably) worth less to me than a vacation day (first world
problem, I know)? I think I'm also lucky enough to have lived in a few cities
where I didn't feel that the parking authority is actively working against me.
I've gotten many parking tickets, and I can honestly say all but one were
justified...
That said, I am rather fond of this quote:
_A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the
system works._ -Bill Vaughan
~~~
icelancer
> However, I wish government was transparent enough that services like this
> weren't needed
I do too, but the sooner we realize this is impossible, the sooner we can all
get over it and turn the responsibilities over to third party private
organizations.
~~~
rtpg
I think telecoms have proven that this hypothesis doesn't hold up very well.
Try unsubscribing from cable.
~~~
recursive
With cable, at least it's possible to never subscribe in the first place. That
doesn't work with governments.
~~~
rtpg
don't own a car/house/etc. and you can greatly reduce your interaction surface
with government.
At least in France the only interaction I have with the gov't is voting,
getting a letter to pay my habitation taxes, and having to renew my passport.
If you think it's unreasonable to not have a car, it might be unreasonable to
not have an internet connection too...
~~~
recursive
I think it's more reasonable to not have a car than it is to not have
internet, but that's probably a minority view. In any case, I have internet
access, but no cable subscription.
------
wdewind
So this whole thing reads as if it was written from the perspective of the
founders of Fixed, and is a story about how great their service is. Lot of
talk about Submarines[1] lately, over under on this being one?
[1]
[http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html)
~~~
larrys
Regardless of the PR angle I found it valuable and it got me thinking of a few
similar ideas.
Also I don't think this compares to the "suits are making a comeback" at all
in the sense that it's at least a new and unique idea ... it's not a rehash
used strictly to manipulate the public.
------
larrys
As a concept this is a good idea and can be applied to righting other
"wrongs".
For example there have always been companies that will audit utility bills for
companies (and possibly individuals) but they are not widely known to the
general public.
If you make it easy for people they would almost certainly take a snap of
their utility bill and let someone else do the work in exchange for a cut of
the refund.
For one thing the company doing the work knows the lay of the land. They know
exactly what to look for and aren't going to spin their wheels. They don't
have to spend time learning.
But there is another dynamic going on here as well. Similar in a way to why
people do garage sales when the net revenue in many cases doesn't exceed the
effort. The reason is they'd rather get $2.00 or even .50c for something
rather than throwing it out. It's not about the money in other words.
(Likewise you'd rather give away for free to someone rather than throwing out
because to your brain that feels like karma..)
With this type of service better that someone takes up your cause and allows
you to feel that you did something rather than feel like a, for lack of a
better way to put it, a schmuck who did nothing.
I can see a wide range of possibilities for these "justice" or even "advocate"
as a service ideas.
~~~
icelancer
Definitely, you hit the nail on the head. These services are usually
spearheaded by people who can make a fair bit of money, but probably not as
much if they turned their efforts towards other things. But they get great
satisfaction by solving a real problem - government stupidity - and that's
worth a lot.
Actually that explains why I am no longer a data scientist and why I work in
sports science now, making 40% of my previous salary.
------
tzs
I don't get the tie to libertarianism the article tries to make. The service
seems no more libertarian to me than any other service that provides
assistance in dealing with a government agency.
I wouldn't call H&R Block "libertarian", for example, for helping people
minimize what they pay in taxes. Fixed is not doing anything fundamentally
different from what H&R Block does--they are just dealing with a different
government and different agency.
I am curious about how they actually represent their clients at a traffic
ticket hearing. Does traffic ticket court allow people to be represented by
non-lawyers, or does Fixed send a lawyer to actual appear to contest the
ticket?
~~~
Guvante
Given their webpage says explicitly that it is not an attorney client
relationship I doubt they will represent you in court.
What could happen is they give you all the information you need to show up to
your court date and listen to their channels for how it went.
~~~
tzs
I did some searching, and apparently there are three levels of contesting an
SFMTA ticket.
1\. You submit your objection to the ticket and supply supporting evidence,
and they accept or reject it.
2\. If rejected, you can try again at an administrative hearing.
3\. If that fails, you can go to Superior Court.
Only #2 and #3 require the presence of you or a representative. Presumably,
Fixed works at the #1 level only.
------
dmritard96
“The incentives are all messed up,” says Hegarty. Cities have come to rely on
parking tickets as a source of sorely needed revenue, he explains. The more
parking tickets, the better the budget numbers."
This also applies to them given their business model.
~~~
mikeash
It does, but at least they don't have a conflict of interest from making,
enforcing, and profiting from the rules all at once.
------
jrochkind1
You always could hire a lawyer to help you contest parking tickets, and the
lawyer always (or at least for decades now) could choose to charge you on
contingency only if you won.
I guess what Fixed has done is figure out a way to use technology to make this
business model financially feasible for the legal firm. Or at least they think
they have. We'll see.
Oh, except someone else in the thread says Fixed tries to tell you it's not an
attorney-client relationship, so perhaps they don't have lawyers involved. I'd
expect if they become succesful enough that the city doesn't like them, then,
the city will try to argue that what they are doing is practicing law without
a license. It's odd to me that they don't get some lawyers on staff and say,
sure, it's a legal service; have to think through what the problems for their
business would be there, not sure, but maybe the challenges of complying with
legal standards for legal services are riskier than then the threat of someone
succesfully arguing you practicing law without a license.
Presumably they their own legal advice on their business model, for the
business where they say they aren't giving their customers legal advice. Or is
it just another Uber approach "If we get succesful enough, we can convince
people that existing laws don't apply if you make an app... cause...
internet?"
~~~
zyxley
I'm guessing their power of attorney is (despite the name) specifically
constructed so that they're acting directly as a proxy for you rather than in
the capacity of of a lawyer. It's organized by a company, but the intent seems
to be for it be legally identical to you paying a friend who knows city hall
_really well_ to go go send in some forms for you.
There's no legal advice involved, too, as far as I can tell. They give you a
percentage chance of successfully fighting the ticket (I wonder how they
determine that?), but after that it's basically a black box process: they
handle everything for you, and you find out at the end if they were successful
or not.
There's also "this service is not available in the State of Georgia" in the
footer, which is both interesting and suggests they've done their homework on
this, since you wouldn't see a disclaimer for a market they're not even in yet
if they hadn't. I'm curious why Georgia is unavailable - maybe something to do
with power of attorney law there?
~~~
jrochkind1
I'm not entirely sure it would be legal for a friend who is not a licensed
lawyer to take your money to (choose, fill out, and) send in forms for you.
------
dsugarman
huge fan, can't wait for traffic camera support across the US which is one of
the biggest impediments on our 4th Amendment rights in our country's young
history.
------
petercooper
So I'm assuming Fixed made $76 in this case (4 x $76 tickets were dismissed,
so 25% = $76) but the article says only 20-30% are actually dismissed (so only
20-30% of tickets result in income for Fixed?) and, well, it could have been a
single $76 ticket with a mere $19 potential payday..
How does it financially make sense to run a company like Fixed? I'm intrigued,
and probably making false assumptions, so correct me ;-)
~~~
ianferrel
There are probably very high fixed costs in successfully contesting tickets.
You have to fill out a form. You have to understand how it works. You have to
know what the laws are, and what a likely avenue to contest is. You probably
have to mail or physically hand the form in.
For many people, it's not worth the effort. It might be hours of work for a
relatively small gain.
For the company, they can catalog the institutional knowledge required, then
very quickly assess whether a given ticket falls into one of the categories
they know how to contest, print out the form automatically, then mail or
submit them in bulk.
700 tickets a week * 0.70 contested * 0.20-.30 won * $76/ticket * .25 fee * 52
weeks = $97-145k/year revenue.
Looks like they're just two founders right now, so that's not unreasonable.
------
boxcardavin
I've been on the numbered waitlist for Seattle for 6 months or so, it hasn't
budged. Meh.
------
chipgap98
Something like this for speeding tickets would be fantastic. The assumption is
that most people don't have the time to deal with appealing a lot of these
violations. It would give the average person another good option if they
decide to fight a speeding ticket.
------
analog31
>>> Wait until this isn't for parking tickets but rather for Social Security
disability determinations or VA mid-term disability determinations or Illinois
DOT public right-of-way ingress/egress waivers or...
... or criminal indictments.
~~~
zyxley
At that point you're moving from bureaucratic processes to legal ones, though,
and the expense skyrockets because of requirements for things like bar
certifications.
------
0xdeadbeefbabe
Still waiting for the app that enables the comeback of the meter maids.
------
thrownaway2424
Great, so now you can outsource being an asshole? This guy needs to suck it
up, pay his tickets, read the signs, and stop driving and parking like a
moron. Best approach for people who absolutely cannot be bothered to read and
follow the rules would probably be to sell the car and join a car sharing
service where the parking spaces are dedicated.
~~~
Karunamon
That cuts both ways, you realize? The guy in the article got his tickets
killed because the _moronic_ city _broke the law_ by not having the signage
posted correctly:
> _Fixed came through. The startup couldn’t do anything about the street
> cleaning ticket, but after reviewing some Google Street View pictures of the
> scene of the parking ticket crime, one of Fixed’s full-time “advocates”
> determined that the San Francisco Municipal Transit Agency (SFMTA) had not
> complied with California state law specifying where parking signage must be
> placed._
The city needs to _suck it up_ and follow their own laws if they're going to
levy stealth taxes on people.
Live by the law, die by the law.
~~~
zippergz
It doesn't say he parked there because he thought it was legal due to the
signs. It says he parked there because he "forgot his car." The incorrect
signage was a technicality that allowed him to get out of paying the ticket.
~~~
Karunamon
And? The tickets were therefore unjustified.
Live by the law, die by the law.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The depressing truth about web stardom - Anon84
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23319/
======
mechanical_fish
_And in fact video producers receive higher ratings for their later videos,
even as their success rate declines._
Ah, so people are less successful over time _if_ we define "success" as "sheer
number of hits".
Just because they're not reaching the widest audience doesn't mean that these
people aren't reaching _their_ audience.
Isn't this how you _want_ it to work? The point of publicity is to get
_everyone_ to look at your work _once_. But there's no way that all of those
people are going to stick, unless your product is heroin. (Even then, some
people are smart enough to say "no, thanks" to your first offer.)
If nearly 100% of the people who first see your product stick around, the most
likely explanation is _not_ that you have invented heroin. More likely, _you
have not reached enough people yet_ : Your product is still spreading solely
via word of mouth, and there are potential fans among the general population
who you would pick up if you cast a wider net. (Though, obviously, casting
such a net has a cost. Your true fans may accuse you of "selling out" once
your ads start appearing on daytime television.)
The important thing about a viewership curve is not that it declines over
time. The important question is: What's the asymptotic value, and is that
equilibrium number of fans large enough to keep you happy in perpetuity? If it
isn't... what's the rate of decline, and is there enough area under the curve
to keep you happy while you work out the next thing you want to do? The first
scenario is _The Simpsons_. The second is just about every other successful TV
series in history.
------
dxjones
If you look at Figure 4 in the actual article, you see that persistence _DOES_
pay off on YouTube. Although the probability of a particular video becoming
insanely popular declines, the overall probability that at least one video
from your collection becomes popular continues to rise as you keep uploading
them.
If your first lottery ticket has a 0.01 chance of winning, but your next
lottery tickets have a declining chance of winning, the overall chance of
winning the lottery can continue to rise. In their example, it rises from 0.01
to approaching 0.20. Doesn't sound all that irrational, does it? Persistence
increases your chance of becoming popular by a factor of 20X. It just takes
many more than 20 uploads to accomplish that increase.
In fact, ... when you think about it, ... it could not turn out any other way.
If the probability of your next video getting you in the "top 1%" on YouTube
stayed fixed, ... then EVERYONE could be in the "top 1%". ... sounds like
everyone wanting their kids to be "above average" in school. It's just not
possible.
\-- dxjones
------
CalmQuiet
"A more puzzling question is why the producers persist in the face of
declining audience figures. "
i.e., why don't "one-shot wonders" recognize themselves as such and... give
up?
It's a basic principle of the psychology of learned behavior: intermittent
reinforcement: Having _occasionally_ been rewarded, s/he persists in trying to
be rewarded (cf: win the big one in the lottery).
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
That aspect of human behavior is also mentioned here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=485797>
------
jgrahamc
Any chance that the if you upload a lot of content to YouTube that you are
uploading ripped off content, or minor modifications, whereas if you upload a
few videos you may actually be uploading stuff you produced?
------
Batsu
Doesn't this fall into the category of correlation and not causation?
In either case, it's not the destination, it's the journey :) Being a 'star'
might be important to some people, but I would argue that most will not waste
their time if they didn't enjoy doing it.
~~~
sscheper
I completely agree with you. The only thing that keeps me blogging every other
day is that it sharpens my mind. It requires me to think, create and get
thoughts onto paper. It's almost like a daily meditation.
My wife does the same thing with politics :)
~~~
josefresco
I hope she's debating/participating and not simply watching cable news
politics.
------
Encosia
It seems like a mistake to directly equate persistence and quantity.
~~~
josefresco
The former suggest you weigh the results of your previous attempts and make
improvements in order to increase your odds of success. The latter suggest
simply applying the same approach over and over without major reconsideration.
------
Gibbon
I posted essentially the same article by Kevin Kelly, a week ago :
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=541394>
It includes a link to the original paper.
------
diN0bot
reference: <http://arxiv.org/abs/0904.0489>
------
stcredzero
Didn't Warhol say something about this once? (15 minutes...)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I do whatever I want at work and I haven’t been fired yet - riqbal
https://m.signalvnoise.com/i-do-whatever-i-want-at-work-and-i-havent-been-fired-yet-7aae85aa3586
======
ryandrake
In most companies I've worked, approval process is the scar tissue of years of
mistakes. In every case where you need to ask for approval to do something,
you can probably trace back in the company's history and find the past mistake
that some goofball made that necessitated getting approval to do something
like that. Someone got us sued. Someone lost us some money. We need to take
_some kind_ of corrective action and the easiest solution is to simply require
oversight next time.
A place where you can "do whatever you want" strikes me as a place with a very
short history of mistakes.
~~~
devmunchies
My company has been getting a lot of talent from Amazon and Microsoft, so we
are getting their "scar tissue" without any of the context, jacking up our
culture. I have to do a detailed doc and plan for _everything_. It wouldn't be
a big deal but we've gone from 700 to 1500 employees in just 2 years, so its
been fast change.
~~~
sidlls
> I have to do a detailed doc and plan for everything.
I find spending a few days writing a detailed, in-depth design document for a
given implementation often saves weeks or more of development. In the
immediate term it takes longer. In the medium to longer term a thorough design
can often lead to fewer bugs, less severe bugs, and less complicated
enhancement development.
What you describe is what _engineering_ is, at least partly. Your attitude,
which is quite common, is why I scoff at calling what this industry does
"software engineering". It's rarely as thoughtful, careful and detailed as
engineering requires.
Not that that is a bad thing. Often what a business in this industry is making
just isn't complicated enough to need much beyond simplistic hacking at a
terminal.
~~~
tigershark
This is the best solution when you are building a whole _system_ from scratch.
If you have to build a feature or whatever it is then it already got implicit
permission from the jira sponsor or the product owner or whatever stakeholders
are in charge. And for a feature I don't have to lose days writing long
documents. I just think how it should work, I discuss it with the senior
members of the team and with the stakeholders if needed. From that point on I
just speak with the users to understand exactly what they want showing them
whatever I'm building to have an early feedback. I think that is much more
productive spending several days in a tight feedback cycle with your users
than spending the same amount of times drafting the architecture in a
document.
~~~
sidlls
How do you get from "I just think how it should work" to "discuss it with the
senior members"? You've got notes, at the very least, that you've jotted down
about the proposed changes. Guess what: that's the draft of a design document!
If you've taken any reasonably thoughtful approach you'll have just a little
more work to make it formal, invite formal comments and feedback, etc. Not
weeks "drafting an architecture" document, just days (or possibly hours, if
it's a small change). That's a small price in time to pay for such a big
dividend down the road.
------
wccrawford
>If you can make a decision and you don’t think it’s going to get you fired,
just do it.
This advice only applies to people with enough experience.
I'm thinking of a certain ex-employee that followed that advice all the time,
despite us constantly correcting him. Even on their final day, they was still
insisting that they was doing good work.
To this day, we are still finding code they wrote or modified that is wrong or
broken in horrible ways.
Why? Because they didn't have the experience to know the difference between a
quick fix and a good fix, and when to employ them. (Hint: The "quick fix" is
almost never good enough.)
My personal line is a long way away from "Will it get me fired?" and I've got
decades of experience.
I've always said that programming is all about making assumptions. And I'll
frequently send off an email stating some assumption I'm making and start
coding based on that assumption. If I get corrected, I can change pretty
quickly. But I'm usually right.
But just not asking? Forget it. If I'm unsure enough to bother with sending a
2-line email, it's worth asking.
~~~
sharmanaetor
Isn't the solution to this a good code review process? Even the author of the
article states "I either wrote up a plan and shared it beforehand, or I just
announced what I’d done after it was completed". This is very similar to
asking someone review your code.
~~~
wccrawford
Again, my comment was about having the experience to make these decisions
properly. I'm sure he didn't tell people about every single decision he made,
only the ones he needed validation on.
However, I noticed that he only told others after it was completed sometimes,
which is often far too late.
Experience lets you know which ones that's okay for, and which ones it isn't.
------
randomf1fan
I think this depends a lot on two people - your immediate manager, and their
immediate manager. I've been lucky to have great management, and I've been
able to do a lot of stuff that the article talks about, and I work in a stodgy
BigCo (old school tech co).
I once went to 99Designs and paid $2000 for a designer to redo a certain set
of pages on our corporate site. Start to finish, the project took 27 days.
This is insanely fast in our context - the usual process would have taken 6-8
months, and at least $100,000. The large agency we work with would have
dedicated a team, spun up a project, set up a series of meetings...
To be fair, I get the need for process and I totally get the value of working
that way, but it's nice to have management that backs you up when you really
need to get something done fast. And yes, once the need for those pages was
over (conference related), I made sure they were handed over to the right team
for long term management, and not just abandoned as orphan pages.
~~~
toomuchtodo
Well played hacking the system.
------
jdc0589
Assuming the people doing this have experienced and are trustworthy, this is
honestly what companies need in a _limited_ capacity, even if they don't think
they need it.
Over the course of my relatively short career so far (7 years?), almost every
single "big win" has been because something was bugging the crap out of me,
and I just decided to do something about it.
The key is to do this kind of autonomous stuff while _still_ delivering things
people expect you to do, unless/until your peers and management are clear on
the value you bring just doing stuff on your own all the time.
~~~
xxSparkleSxx
Also, the two things that push most people towards entrepreneurship is money
and autonomy in their work.
If you can give employees these things, they will stick around longer.
------
RUG3Y
This only works when you have the hiring process dialed in and you're
selecting the right candidates to work from you.
~~~
Joeri
Exactly. I once had the conversation about bottom-up vs top-down decision
making with my CEO, and his point was essentially that the people we've hired
can't be trusted with that level of responsibility. For me this was proof that
our hiring process needed to improve, for him it was proof that our
supervision process needed to improve.
There's a great book about companies run through bottom-up decision making
called _Reinventing Organizations_. My take away was that bottom up can work
at any scale, but it requires true believers at the top who are constantly
working hard at making themselves unnecessary. Once the true believers walk
out organizations naturally revert to hierarchical decision-making.
~~~
mywacaday
The best advice I received from an old manager when I moved into management
was that if I wanted to achieve anything my primary goal was to make myself
and my position redundant. Hiring and empowering the right people is the only
way to achieve this, its not easy but its definitely worth it. When you can
truly trust the people you are responsible for its a different game.
------
jrm2k6
This wouldn't work for 90% of companies. You cannot do whatever you want in a
PCI environment, or a HIPAA compliant environment. It also boils down to your
managers, product managers etc.. Do they micromanage? Is your focus shifting
all the time because new high priorities tasks are coming your way?
If so, I would never feel confident in doing whatever I want, as I know I
wouldn't be able to put 100% of my focus on it, and probably forget something
important that could screw a lot of things up.
------
amelius
I wonder how many programmers secretly work on their pet projects during work
time.
~~~
tricinel
And I wonder how many companies have benefited from the experience said
programmers gained while working on pet projects...
~~~
jameskegel
I look at it like taking a walk, or a smoker taking a smoke break. That small
reprieve, the 15 minutes I take working on a side project, or tinkering with
something for fun, rejuvenates me and gets me jazzed about the task at hand
when I get back to it. That's a productivity booster, and ultimately a
benefit.
~~~
Tomis02
A rationalization that's likely to get you fired if you were to own up to it
publicly. Although it's true, the company would benefit from you feeling
excited about the task at hand.
------
shawnbaden
I can’t help but think having such autonomy is tied to profitability. I’m sure
there are plenty of examples where an employee at a profitable company doesn’t
have autonomy. But how many have autonomy where there's not profitability?
~~~
ryanbrunner
I think you're close to the mark, but it's less about profitability
specifically, and more about growth. A company that is focused on growing as
fast as possible, dominating a market, and generating a favourable outcome for
investors is only going to get there through big audacious bets in terms of
product strategy. If you need to get 3x as large as you are a year from now,
no amount of small tweaks for better user experience from individual
developers is going to get you there. Instead, you'll find large numbers of
developers (or maybe even the entire team at smaller shops) all working
towards big, flashy advancements.
There's a relationship here with profitability, for sure - companies that are
profitable are likely not prioritizing growth over profit, and aren't beholden
to investors who want a big exit, but the profitability is more of an
indicator than the cause.
------
haburka
Sounds like an awesome place to work. I love autonomy and the ability to make
my own plans and follow through with them. However, if it's a team effort then
you definitely need buy in from everyone involved!
------
d--b
His boss trusts him enough to let him take his own decisions, good for him!
It's definitely not great advice for every employee, or for every company
though...
I mean, it's great to be able to discuss things with your boss and colleagues
and take collegial decisions...
I don't understand the idea behind the post...
~~~
nstart
From the perspective of basecamp/37 signals, they've made it a point to do
things which most people say "wouldn't work". And they do it and prove that it
is possible.
A lot of objections one might have to their choices are usually deeply rooted
in other organizational dysfunctionalities. Other companies for example may
choose to hire weaker employees due to the urgency to get people sooner.
Sooner is more important than correct and then you have employees you can't
trust to be autonomous. Or you put people in managerial positions whose
purpose is to delegate, or approve tasks as part of their monitoring duties.
This goes against autonomy entirely. Basecamp for example doesn't have any
real managers.
While you are right that this won't work for many larger established
companies, from the perspective of people starting out (and there are a lot of
them), these posts serve a purpose of raising a middle finger to the
established norms of running a business. There's a purpose built around
tearing down bad decisions that lead to other bad decisions that eventually
lead to ineffective teams.
And that's the idea behind this post.... Probably :)
------
caseymarquis
Their company has good cash flow and a small number of very talented
employees. I don't feel like this paradigm is easily applied to organizations
that either can't afford their level of talent or have thousands of employees.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ben Horowitz on Startups, Aristotle, and Swimming the Danube - tylerrooney
http://tylerrooney.com/post/41699711182/startups-aristotle-swimming-the-danube
======
josh2600
Thelonious Monk once said that "the line between insanity and genius is razor
thin".
From the perspective of the entrepreneur, much of success is playing the
confidence game and therefore being a little crazy might be an asset.
~~~
gruseom
I doubt that Monk said that. It sounds more like something people would say
about him.
------
CommitPush
There is so much stuff in that video, that's what really hood investors are.
The thing is, you can't be just between insane and genius, you have to be able
to use either of the two just when it's the right time to use them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What would it take for you to stay behind in a failing nuclear plant? - jshharlow
Just wondering what it would take for people to stay behind in a failing nuclear plant (like what is occurring right now).
======
iamdave
Guaranteed super powers. For starters.
------
bartonfink
I'd need to know I could do something to fix the situation. If the reactor is
already FUBARed, the situation isn't helped any more by my death.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Create beautiful and fun charts for your pitch-decks - StanM
http://www.chartify.io
======
StanM
Posted previously by mistake
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Do the monthly 'Ask HN: Who wants to be hired?' posts get anyone hired? - webmaven
======
tptacek
Yes. For a long time, they were the most effective recruiting vector at
Matasano.
~~~
webmaven
Note that I am asking about the 'Who wants to be hired?' posts, not 'Who is
hiring?' posts.
------
nmjohn
Yes - at Webflow I believe 4 of us were hired from the who wants to be hired /
who's hiring posts.
~~~
webmaven
Thanks for the reply.
------
stevenwliao
It helped me find two places that I'm interviewing with. Will update once the
results are in.
~~~
webmaven
Just to clarify, they found you via a 'Who wants to be hired?' post, not a
'Who is hiring?' post?
~~~
stevenwliao
I misread the post. Good catch.
------
domrdy
Yes. This was the post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4994554](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4994554).
Wrote them an email, was hired a week later and still work there.
~~~
webmaven
That is a 'Who is hiring?' post, not a 'Who wants to be hired?' post.
------
conorgil145
Yes. We had several strong candidates reply to our postings on the "Who's
Hiring" and made a great hire about 10 months ago. That team member is still
with the company and is providing great value!
~~~
webmaven
I am asking about the 'Who wants to be hired?' posts, not the 'Who is hiring?'
posts.
------
kwc98
hopefully, at least I am being seriously considered. We shall see.
------
atmosx
Yes.
------
gillytech
Yes.
~~~
webmaven
Just to clarify, you were found via a 'Who wants to be hired?' post, not a
'Who is hiring?' post?
------
saiko-chriskun
yes.
------
trumbitta2
no
------
J_Darnley
No.
------
misframer
yes
~~~
webmaven
Just to make sure we're clear, you found a position via a 'Who wants to be
hired?' post, not a 'Who is hiring?' post?
------
nnd
no.
------
drugsAreBad0001
It might have to do with where you're located, but no. The several that I
applied for wouldn't even interview me because I apparently wasn't well versed
in their stack (despite being well educated, solid experience, proven track-
record, and a strong will).
I would totally attribute it to being _just me_ , but in the last month I've
received offers from Amazon, the DoD, Intel, and a few smaller shops in my
area.
It's funny too, because I see the same companies _continually_ posting the
same ads month after month in the "Who's Hiring" posts, so they must have a
fairly strong bias against false positives.
~~~
webmaven
Thanks for the feedback, which also matches my experience, but I was actually
asking about the 'Who wants to be hired?' posts, not the 'Who is hiring?'
posts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask PG: What Is The Most Frighteningly Ambitious Idea You Have Been Pitched On? - npguy
======
pg
I'm sorry if this is an unsatisfying answer, but if you mean _convincingly_
pitched, I couldn't answer a question like that without disclosing the long-
term plans of startups that would prefer to keep them secret.
If you mean unconvincingly pitched, it would probably be the applications we
get from people who've discovered new power sources that violate the laws of
physics.
~~~
Eliezer
Can you say where the scariest and most ambitious convincing pitch was on the
following scale?
1) We're going to build the next Facebook!
2) We're going to found the next Apple!
3) Our product will create sweeping political change! This will produce a
major economic revolution in at least one country! (Seasteading would be
change on this level if it worked; creating a new country successfully is
around the same level of change as this.)
4) Our product is the next nuclear weapon. You wouldn't want that in the wrong
hands, would you?
5) This is going to be the equivalent of the invention of electricity if it
works out.
6) We're going to make an IQ-enhancing drug and produce basic change in the
human condition.
7) We're going to build serious Drexler-class molecular nanotechnology.
8) We're going to upload a human brain into a computer.
9) We're going to build a recursively self-improving Artificial Intelligence.
10) We think we've figured out how to hack into the computer our universe is
running on.
~~~
ph0rque
Eliezer, I believe you just created the Yudkowsky Ambition scale.
My startup, <http://automicrofarm.com/>, rates between a 3 and a 5, depending
on how successful it becomes, in my opinion.
~~~
Eliezer
Holy schmaloly, that actually _is_ a 3 if it works.
Anyone else got 3 or higher?
~~~
Alex3917
"Anyone else got 3 or higher?"
I have a drug that could massively raise the IQ of the world's population, in
total more than the power of all the world's computers combined. And it costs
only a couple pennies per person per year.
Iodine.
~~~
FF8C69
source please
~~~
vhf
_« According to WHO, in 2007, nearly 2 billion individuals had insufficient
iodine intake, a third being of school age. Iodine deficiency can have serious
consequences, causing abnormal neuronal development, mental retardation,
congenital abnormalities, spontaneous abortion and miscarriage, congenital
hypothyroidism, and infertility. Later in life, intellectual impairment
reduces employment prospects and productivity. »_
[http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673...](http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673608610090/fulltext)
------
cperciva
Posting an "Ask PG" at 3 AM Pacific time seems frighteningly ambitious to me.
~~~
arctangent
There is a useful tool to suggest the best times to post a new thread:
<http://hnpickup.appspot.com>
Is anyone aware of something similar which breaks this down by type of thread?
~~~
npguy
I must have used that for my show HN post.
I was wondering why it was almost a dead response, While I have seen good
response for similar show HN posts.
anyways the post is here:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4495098>
~~~
scott_s
There's a large random component to what gets to, and stays on, the front
page.
------
Eliezer
We never pitched him on the Singularity Institute
(<http://singularity.org/research/>), but I doubt he's ever been seriously
pitched on anything more ambitious than "build a recursively self-improving
Artificial Intelligence with a stable, specifiable goal system so that it can
improve into a superintelligence and do world optimization." If he's been
pitched on anything more frightening than that, I'd really like to know what.
~~~
seiji
Honest question: Does SI actually _do_ anything other than hold conferences
and take donations so smart people don't have to get real jobs?
~~~
decode
A cynic would say that the main activity of SI's Research Fellows is to type
up their Science Fiction and Philosophy musings and upload them as PDFs to
their website. Someone less cynical would say that these musings are
fundamental research in the area of self-replicating AIs that will enable
other people to build said AIs in the future.
I tend to lean toward the cynical interpretation.
~~~
freshhawk
But the appropriate area for fundamental research is in explaining
consciousness and intelligence so that in the future someone trying to build
an AI can actually define what they are trying to build.
That kind of science takes large scale organization and specialization by each
person in a narrow field. It carries enormous organizational costs. It's also
frequently quite a lot of boring work.
Easier to just speculate on a wide area of interesting topics while you wait
for people to do the real work.
Looks like I leaned so far towards the cynical interpretation that I fell over
on it.
------
bfe
"We want to make our own rockets and spaceships from scratch. But that's just
the beginning, to pave the way to settling Mars and making it affordable for
middle-class customers to relocate to Mars." I imagine if Elon Musk had
pitched SpaceX for YC, it would be a strong candidate for this.
~~~
mej10
Yeah, pretty much any of his recent ideas/companies are "frighteningly
ambitious".
I do wonder how YC would handle someone that is as ambitious and skilled as
Musk, but without his financial success. (Un?)Fortunately for them I think
that is a pretty rare combination, so they probably don't have to worry too
much.
~~~
stickfigure
It is a mantra here that there is an _enormous_ amount of timing and luck
involved in creating a successful startup.
I would expect the majority of people with Musk's skill and ambition to lack
his level of financial success. Certainly the percentages will be better than
the general population, but it's not guaranteed or even likely.
~~~
mej10
In my opinion, if people really think timing and luck matter more than skill
and determination, then they shouldn't be doing startups (unless their goals
aren't to create an awesome/important company, but to have fun or something
else).
Timing and luck (from what I have seen) really only seem to matter for things
where it doesn't really require a lot of domain expertise. Of course, those
are what first time entrepreneurs (at least of the Hacker News variety) are
most drawn to, for what should be obvious reasons.
Perhaps it is just due to there being more information about Musk than other
founders, but I haven't heard of any YC founders having the level of technical
skills and abilities that Musk has. He is older than most, though, and has
been at it for a while, so this shouldn't really be surprising.
------
patmcguire
Might not have ever pitched pg, since they're hardware and probably needed a
bigger initial investment than YC does to make sense, but Blue River
Technologies is probably the most ambitious thing I've heard of.
[http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/10/blue-river-technology-
raise...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/10/blue-river-technology-
raises-3-1-million-to-build-robots-to-replace-chemical-herbicides/)
The original product was a robot that zapped weeds with lasers, they switched
to a superheated oil because it's cheap enough to be practical.
------
femto
I'd like to write a program, which uses Quantum Electrodynamics to simulate an
electron in the presence of a point charge (ie. an hydrogen atom).
Next, I'd like to run two instances, put them in the same space and see if the
simulation spontaneously forms an hydrogen molecule.
I'd then like to add a second electron, and see if the result was an Helium
atom.
Keep adding electrons until the simulation can do 6 and 8 electrons (carbon
and hydrogen).
Now, I'd like to put all three types of simulated atoms (H,C,O) in the same
space and see if the result is organic chemistry. At this point, additional
optimisations might be necessary, maybe along the lines of starting the
simulation by computing simplified models and using those where full accuracy
is not required.
I'd then like to continue building the system up, adding optimisations as
necessary. Keep adding atoms, and seeing if ever more complex molecules
result. Extend to atoms with additional electrons as required (eg. need to add
Nitrogen for DNA bases).
At some point, custom hardware would be required. First GPUs/FPGAs, then
custom silicon, and whatever else is state-of-the-art at the time.
See how far the optimise/extend cycle can be pushed. Amino acids, DNA,
proteins, cells, organs, organisms?
Who knows how far it would get? It might remain an interesting toy, at the 0
level. The closer it is to simulating a human, the closer it is to an 9 or 10
on the "Yudkowsky Ambition Scale". \--- update: spelling
------
chmike
How would one make the difference between _frighteningly ambitious_ , _crazy_
or _stupid_ ?
~~~
MattGrommes
That reminds me of Peter Thiel's Venn diagram of 'Sounds like a bad idea' and
'Is a good idea'. It's a pretty slim area in the middle and the 'Sounds like'
part means it's hard to know until you do it.
------
ig1
Presumably PG can't answer because of confidentiality, but the the most
ambitious one I've heard is a pitch for a company claiming they could build a
trillion dollar company.
(They were working on a cement/concrete replacement that was cleaner and
cheaper)
~~~
MPSimmons
Was that the company that said they could make concrete that extracted carbon
from air?
~~~
ig1
Don't remember the details, Khosla was an investor though.
------
Alex3917
How would you even know? Sometimes the most ambitious ideas don't require more
than a few hundred lines of code. It's often how you want the rest of the
world to use your product that makes it ambitious, not the product itself.
~~~
numeromancer
DFFT FTW!
------
runjake
Was pg ever pitched on Instagram? Because a "picture service that gets sold
for $1B" sounds frighteningly ambitious.
~~~
mikeleeorg
I don't think Instagram set out to be acquired for $1B. That was just a
pleasant after-effect. And here's pg's answer on what he would have done had
he been pitched on Instagram:
_"Instagram is the one we'd most likely have missed. It all depends when we'd
talked to them. They were a kind of overnight success in traffic. If we'd
talked to them even a day after they launched we would certainly have said
yes. But before that it might have seemed too speculative."_
Source: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4497517>
~~~
001sky
These guys _did_ invest in instagram. But...
_When we invested in Instagram, it wasn’t actually Instagram. It was a
company called Burbn, and the idea was roughly to build a mobile micro
blogging service. Technologically, it was also different: an HTML 5
application rather than a native app..._
Of course you never know what then happens. Instagram pivots to photos, and
exits at ~$1B. But...
_As Kevin iterated on Burbn, we made another investment in an excellent
entrepreneur, Dalton Caldwell. Dalton’s company, Mixed Media Labs, initially
built a product called PicPlz. PicPlz aime d to be a mobile photo sharing
service..._
Of course, now Dalton (as app.net) is doing what instagram (then as Burbn) set
out to do - a micro-blogging service.
So, there ya go...the ol' switcheroo ;D
------
tribeofone
Not an idea, but I have to say I was blown away by the first meeting I was in
with a company that said they were trying to exit for $1B.
This pretty much summed up my reaction:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1CEbl9cK3o&t=3m7s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1CEbl9cK3o&t=3m7s)
~~~
bhousel
Wow, what industry? Healthcare? Telecom? Can't think of too many that could
credibly claim a $1B exit.
~~~
hollerith
Huh? I have been assuming that a large fraction of VC-funded startups try for
exits of at least $1 billion. (The more rational ones know they will probably
fail, but that does not prevent their sincerely aiming for that target.)
I am almost certain their investors want them to aim at least that high.
Are you sure you're not confusing billion and trillion?
ADDED. I'm not trying to appear bad-ass or hardcore (and in fact, I've never
been a founder because I judge that I cannot afford that level of risk of
being left with a severely suboptimal monetary reward for my efforts). I am
honestly trying to understand VC-funded startups.
~~~
niklas_a
I had the same reaction as you.
But to answer your question and being a startup founder myself - doing a
startup is just an amazing experience. It's a bit like trying heroin (not that
I've done that, but from what I hear). The highs are extremely high and the
lows are extremely low. Going back to a "normal" job after doing a startup is
like taking methadone.
Sometimes I wish I could think rationally around this (like you) and just take
a normal job again. That would most likely be better for me in every
measurable way (salary, benefits etc) but I'm just having too much fun doing
startups.
~~~
hollerith
Just to clarify: some young men find life (making friends, college, dating,
getting and holding a good job) easy, and for those young men, I do not doubt
that founding a startup _is_ the rational path -- especially if they care as
much about improving the world as they do about themselves. (If you're trying
to improve the world, a 1% chance of making 5 billion dollars is a much more
attractive choice than it is if you care only about yourself and your family
and close friends because your ability to improve the world is approximately
linear in how much money you can spend whereas your ability to stay safe and
happy and to keep your friends and family safe and happy is distinctly sub-
linear in "spending power" once spending power gets above $100,000 a year.)
However, I do not find life easy (nor am I young).
------
Wilya
I don't see any way for him to give an answer to this that wouldn't cause
hundreds of people to apply to the next YC with the exact same idea (or with
the same idea with tiny meaningless variations).
Not sure if that would benefit anyone.
~~~
NameNickHN
I'm pretty sure that hundreds of people already are applying with the exact
same idea. PG's answer wouldn't make much difference.
------
mcartyem
Also, what is an idea you have been pitched on that seemed bad to you that you
can't tell yet if it's a good idea.
~~~
jtheory
"Most of them" seems to be the likely answer to this one. Including most of
the real winners.
------
neurotech1
I'm going to speculate for a bit, and say that some of the "Frighteningly
Ambitious" ideas probably involve hardware or hardware/software combinations.
Kickstarter is full of updates on how getting designs into production is
harder than expected.
------
kristofer
a guy who claimed that high speed Internet service could be delivered ove the
magnetic field of AC power lines and into homes. wanted USGovt to mandate it
because it was so amazing and cheap.
------
darylteo
Something Something Something Social Network.
------
johnrgrace
Now I think I'm going to have to troll some Angel investors I know, shoot for
about 4/5
------
mpwh
Why does this post have so many points?
~~~
mbrubeck
That's pretty common when an "Ask PG" post gets an answer from pg. A lot of HN
members are highly interested in pg's thoughts.
------
constantin
we can see the websites? Where started your startup?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What does human centered AI even mean? A conversation w Microsoft's Josh Lovejoy - sheana_ahlqvist
https://innovationforallcast.com/2019/06/12/human-centered-ai-josh-lovejoy/
======
colinbovet
Love this: "by seeking to address the needs of people- especially those at the
margins- in ways that respect, restore and augment their capabilities, we can
invent forms of technological innovation that would have otherwise been
invisible."
------
hydrogenglow
"When a system begins to remember us forever, and wherever we go…. we will not
be our true selves. We will be the self we know it’s okay to remember."
Interesting point about the (not so) ephemeral nature of the web. Will have to
listen.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Foxconn deliberately sabotaging their BIOS to destroy Linux ACPI - nickb
http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249
======
c0un7d0wn
[http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/...](http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf)
------
dandelany
"it appears they're trying to crash the kernel by locking a region of memory
that shouldn't be locked"
...or, they're second-rate programmers who don't test their code very
thoroughly.
Yes, he is going overboard by claiming "deliberate sabotage." Every hacker
wants his 15 minutes of /., and he got his. However, the important overlooked
fact here is about halfway down in his post:
"I've found separate DSDT tables that the BIOS hands to Linux specifically,
changing it to point to the DSDT tables Vista gets fixes all Linux issues with
this board."
That is, the problem isn't that they screwed up the Linux implementation of
their BIOS, it's that they created different rules for Linux to follow when
the Vista ones worked just fine. I still have a hard time attributing it to
malice, but this is very asinine indeed.
~~~
rit
Interestingly enough though...
FoxConn says in the email replies that they DONT SUPPORT Linux.
However, they have code specifically written for it.
Strange, even if it isn't deliberate sabotage.
~~~
sysop073
This was what made me thing they did it intentionally. They don't support
Linux, and yet they intentionally detect Linux and have special code written
for it that doesn't work, when the standard code does work. That's incredibly
suspicious, it's like when Hotmail decided to "only support Internet Explorer"
by sniffing the user agent string when it actually worked fine on Firefox
------
kenver
To quote wikipedia! "A technical standard is an established norm or
requirement. It is usually a formal document that establishes uniform
engineering or technical criteria, methods, processes and practices."
If they're following the standard they shouldn't need to cater for different
OS's - one will do.
From the sound of it they've probably copy/pasted chunks of stuff, then edited
the windows stuff to make that work and forgot about the linux bits.
There's probably no malice involved here but it sounds like a massive bodge,
which is totally unprofessional for a commercial product.
------
jm4
This is a very informative thread for anyone having ACPI problems with a
Foxconn board, but it's a stretch to say they've gone out of their way to
deliberately sabotage their own product in order to inconvenience the tiny
percentage of their own customers who choose to use Linux. More likely, this
is simply incompetence.
I've been using Linux for almost 10 years so I'm very familiar with this sort
of experience and understand this guy's frustration completely. However, he is
jumping to a lot of conclusions based on very little information. Before even
asking for help he sent off a complaint to the FTC. Foxconn's support tried to
work with him after that to fix his problem and he acted like a total jerk.
With these chicken little types of articles and forums threads being plastered
all over every social news site it's no wonder a lot of hardware vendors don't
want to officially support Linux. When something doesn't work people always
assume the worst and they get burned for it. The more likely scenario is that
many of these companies don't have enough Linux experience to ensure the same
kind of quality they can with something as familiar as Windows.
~~~
ajross
I don't see where Foxconn "tried to work with him", frankly. They asked one
question (which completely missed the point: removing RAM doesn't tell you
anything about ACPI behavior) and then punted with "we don't support linux". I
don't know about you, but that's not the support that _I_ want from my
hardware vendors.
I mean, sure, the guy might be a paranoid jerk. But Foxconn is hardly
blameless here.
~~~
jm4
Of course they're not blameless. They're just another crappy vendor that, at
best, puts a half effort into supporting Linux. Even cursory research probably
would have revealed this before the guy purchased the hardware. The first clue
that a little research might be necessary is that Foxconn doesn't even claim
to support Linux.
The point I was trying to make is this is about the worst way to go about
solving a problem like this. Assuming, and then treating people as if they're
out to get you is going to get this guy and the Linux community exactly
nowhere.
What do we know? Maybe Foxconn made a genuine attempt at providing some
unofficial Linux support and just screwed up. Dealing with them as if they're
part of some conspiracy to destroy Linux is not only downright foolish but
really hurts the cause. If all a company is going to get is grief from a bunch
of rabid bloggers, who can blame them for falling back on the "we don't
support linux" excuse?
The simple solution is to let them know in a polite and respectful way that
you're having a problem with the hardware. They can choose to fix it or not
and you can choose to keep buying their products or not.
------
gm
So you are using a motherboard under conditions that they state it's not
certified for... Where's the news here?
Is this just a pissing match gone bad?
"I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a copy of Vista just to get the crashing
caused by Foxconn's BIOS to stop, I am not going to be terrorized."
Isn't this whole thing the result of bad research before purchase?
About the only thing interesting about this is if the guy gets sued under DMCA
for disassembling the BIOS of the motherboard.
~~~
LogicHoleFlaw
The point is that the motherboard was advertised as being ACPI compliant. It
is not. In fact, it checks specifically for Linux ands hands back ACPI data
which crashes the machine.
I'm not certain what the potential anti-trust implications are.
~~~
gm
But it's still not Linux certified.
About the DMCA, yes it sucks, and yes, it would be irrational to sue because
of that, that's why it would be interesting. Anyway, not that I am hoping for
that. Stupid laws should go away.
~~~
ajross
I'm not following your logic. ACPI is a published, open standard. Foxconn
doesn't need to do _anything_ for "linux" or "windows" specifically. They just
put the tables in memory and hand them to the OS to use.
But they aren't. They're specifically testing for OS versions and handing back
different (and, in this case, broken) data to "linux" software. At best,
that's horribly broken and a reason to avoid Foxconn hardware. Excusing it
with this "Certification(tm)" canard is just spin, and you appear to have
fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
~~~
gm
Well, you guys can mod me down all you want, but the fact remains, they said
the motherboard itself is not certified for Linux, so putting Linux on it is a
gamble, regardless of the ACPI standard. "Run an O/S we support, and tell us
if the motherboard still does not work": Pretty standard response when you try
to do something unsupported and then run into trouble. There's no manufacturer
that's going to tell you otherwise. Try and complain to Intel about
overclocking problems with their motherboards: They will first say "turn off
the overclocking and tell me if it does not work still. Oh, and you have just
voided your warranty."
Just switch brands already. I have my own brand that I like for MBs exactly
because I have never had to put up with this cheesy crap from the mfg I use.
Foxconn sucks for pulling this crap, so the guy writing the article should
stay away from retard brands. Next time, spend the extra $10 or whatever and
get a good motherboard. That is the real lesson I see in all of this.
~~~
krschultz
I don't think you understand the problem here. The board works under Linux if
the BIOS is modified to follow the ACPI spec, but under their own
implementation it does not follow the spec. Thus at the minimum it is a faulty
product that does not match the advertisement, and at worst it is an anti-
trust violation. Certified or not, recommended or not, warranty or not, it
does not fulfill the spec. The fact that Vista covers this up does not mean
that it fits the spec when running Vista, no matter how you slice it, it is
broken.
~~~
gm
I just think that it's gonna be hard for anyone who can do something about
this to give a sh*t. Anti-trust instead of false advertising? Now I know for a
fact nothing's gonna happen. Anti-trust cases are about the hardest to do.
Anti-trust... Why would that be anti-trust anyway? Where do monopolies come
into play?
~~~
gm
From: <http://mjg59.livejournal.com/94905.html>
"Anyway. Accusing companies of conspiring against us when the most likely
explanation is simply that they don't care is a fucking ridiculous thing to do
and does nothing to get rid of the impression that Linux users are a bunch of
whining childish hatemongers. Next time, try talking to someone who actually
understands this stuff first?"
Thank you, Matt.
Now all you downmodders, please upmod me :-)
Seriously, you guys should not downmod just because a post disagrees with you.
~~~
jcl
"I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement." -- PG
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pharmaceutical R&D - yarapavan
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/08/pharmaceutical-rd.html
======
yarapavan
From the post:
_This is obviously ludicrous--so why would Dr. Avorn say it about an R &D
department? Like your brain, the R&D department is part of a complex system
that does a lot of important stuff. You can argue that the R&D department is
the most important part of a company, not least because it couldn't survive
long without it. I think the same thing about my brain--but I'd still be just
as dead without my liver. You certainly can't prove anything about my
effectiveness as a journalist by pointing out that [my brain] weighs less than
my bones. So how big should a "brain" be? Hard to say. But let's look at some
companies that are generally recognized as pretty innovative, and their R&D as
a percentage of revenue:_
Apple: three cents out of every dollar
Google: ten cents out of every dollar
Intel: fifteen cents out of every dollar
Genzyme: sixteen cents of every dollar
US Government: three cents out of every dollar
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
LIDSBEE: The Incredible Flying Hat - matttheatheist
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1314634894/lidsbee-the-incredible-flying-hat-that-glows?ref=nav_search
======
GNGR13RDMN
Cool idea, summer is almost here. I am getting one for 4th of July. Thanks for
sharing!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rural Cities Overtake NYC in per Capita Covid-19 Cases - OrganizedChaos
https://www.cybercoastal.com/rural-cities-pass-nyc-in-per-capita-cases/
======
blakesterz
This post is from a NYTimes story from about a month ago:
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-w...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-
ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html)
Those very few limited rural cities that were ahead of NYC at the time had
things like prisons and meat packing plants.
The NY Times has a bunch of stats here they keep updated, including current
Per Capita numbers:
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-
us-c...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-
cases.html)
~~~
Zancarius
Yep, that's true where I'm from. The county has a total of maybe a dozen or so
cases. But we have two correctional facilities that have almost an order of
magnitude more. The next city over has hundreds of cases, but they also have a
meat packing plant where most of these are (in addition to their own
correctional facilities and one or more federal ones).
------
danans
The implication of the title, that rural cities in general have overtaken NYC
isn't necessarily backed up by the data, unless it can be shown to be a
pattern in a huge number of rural cities, such the the combined population of
those reaches a level of statistical significance. The data in the NYT article
also shows more rural cities that have lower case rates than NYC.
The more likely scenario is that these rural cities with higher case rates
than NYC represent their own individual outbreaks of the pandemic. That might
become more of a pattern, especially as shelter-in-place restrictions are
increasingly lifted, but it's too early to make that prediction.
~~~
vikramkr
The observation actually perfectly fits a statistical principle that you're
just going to see more extremes (lower and larger per capital cases) in
smaller populations because probability.
~~~
danans
I'd cast just as much doubt on stats showing low cases/1000 in small cities
and towns and subsequent predictions that small towns won't be affected.
I don't think we have enough data in those places to know the patterns either
way, especially since the situation is changed daily. The dynamics of this
disease aren't well understood enough. Earlier it was thought that the heat of
the southern hemisphere was protecting it, but now Latin America is seeing a
large rise in cases.
EDIT: removed my comment about low sample size and high variance, since the
case rate is just a about cases/100 people, not based on a sampling procedure.
------
j-c-hewitt
Shouldn't the headline say "Three Small Cities..." because it implies that
"rural cities" as a category have overtaken New York City in per capita
Covid-19 cases, which is false.
------
rayiner
I'm not sure this is meaningful. Marion Ohio, for example, has 36,837 people
(66,000 people in the county). The whole county has had 23 deaths. That works
out to 35-62 deaths per 100,000 (depending on how many were in the city versus
the rest of the county). NYC is at 205 deaths per 100,000.
~~~
marcell
It maybe due to NY's policy at the start of the outbreak, which put recovering
Covid patients in nursing homes. It probably spiked their death count without
causing a corresponding spike in cases.
------
paulgb
Direct anchor link to the NYT source data table:
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-w...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-
ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html#cumulative)
~~~
dvtrn
>Our essential coronavirus coverage is free. Create an account or log in to
keep reading. No subscription required.
Then why can't I close the dialog box asking me to sign up and view the
reported data?
~~~
elliekelly
You don't have to subscribe but you do have to sign up. It doesn't cost any
money to make an account.
------
linuxftw
Rural Cities is an oxymoron. If it's a city, by definition, it's not rural.
You could say 'smaller cities' or any number of other things.
------
downerending
TLDR: _Three_ rural cities.
Given some basic assumptions about the distribution of case rates, it's not at
all surprising that a few cities from that fairly large set happen to exceed
NYC.
Nothing to see here.
~~~
IG_Semmelweiss
Agreed. How can a media outlet can extrapolate this into the title is
incredible to me.
Probably why the label that gets thrown around of "fake media" is so sticky
~~~
swamp40
Here's another beauty:
[https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/1265636238255669252?s...](https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/1265636238255669252?s=20)
~~~
downerending
Good grief. I bet the number of murders in NYC dropped more than in Paducah
during all this as well. Let's hear it for New York! :-P
Particularly shameful coming from Pew, who I think of as one of the last
fairly neutral sources.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Short stroking may boost DB performance by 100% - lrajlich
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/short-stroking-hdd,2157.html
Decreases seek time by forcing data to outer sectors. They were able to get significant performance gains
======
lrajlich
Tom's hardware forced all the data to the outer sectors of the hard drive.
While this reduces capacity it also cuts down on seek time significantly,
which would have a tremendous effect on hard drive performance in a database
scenario. It appears they got >100% performance boost in database benchmarks
with this technique. See this benchmark result:
[http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/short-stroking-
hdd,2157-...](http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/short-stroking-
hdd,2157-7.html)
------
wmf
It may also boost your cost by 1000%. This is a relatively poor article; you
can short-stroke without any special utilities by simply creating a smaller
partition and they didn't test the Intel X25-E.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why software engineers should become CEOs - daniel-tlt21
https://www.tlt21.com/why-software-engineers-should-become-ceos/
======
nunez
In my experience, many software engineers and (I hate this word, but it fits
here) technologists have the technical and cognitive skills to become
executives but lack the social skills. Social skills are extremely important
in that role. People are hard.
Also: Software engineers in the US are well-paid and, on the average, have
pretty good work-life balance. That goes away when you become an exec.
~~~
daniel-tlt21
Software engineers have the technical and cognitive skills to become
executives but lack the social skills --> only because they didn't have to
learn them, but they definitely can learn them
Software engineers are well-paid and have pretty good work-life balance -->
True. One of my friends moved to Silicon Valley to start a company. He's now
at Google with a $300K salary and has no incentives to start a business. I do
believe though that busyness is a bug, not a feature, of executives' workday
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why some Ask HN posts does not show comments count - enigami
Why does some HN posts does not show the comments count, even though there are lot of comments inside
======
gus_massa
I'm guessing:
To reduce the memory use, the old threads have only a flag to signal if they
have comments or not. The comments are not loaded and the system doesn't know
the comment count.
For the recent threads and when someone open an old thread, the comments are
loaded and now the system can display the comments count.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Deploying XNA Games on Zune and Xbox 360 - AlfredTwo
http://blogs.msdn.com/alfredth/archive/2009/12/15/deploying-xna-games.aspx
======
csbrooks
This would be neat for a fun side-project, but I'm 99% sure there's no
business model here.
But feel free to post evidence to the contrary, I'd be glad to read it.
(EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm talking about any potential "startup" or
entrepreneurial angle here. If you want to teach yourself game programming,
this is probably a great cheap way to do it.)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
XKCD on Docker - boffinism
https://xkcd.com/1988/
======
cs702
Ouch. The punchline is funny because in many cases it's painfully true...
especially in "enterprise" land.
Don't forget to hover over the comic.
~~~
azernik
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, I think it's making the point that
this isn't necessarily a _bad_ thing, however aesthetically offensive it is.
"Enlightenment" indeed.
~~~
thecrash
Exactly, I think the enlightenment in this case is being at peace with the
idea that one cannot understand or fully manage everything in a technology
stack.
Success does not come from achieving total understanding, but from being able
to cleverly pick and choose what to manage and what to leave as a black box
based on the problem before you.
------
ohiovr
Because I can install nextcloud in a single cli line. With out it I need about
9 scripts worth of stuff (example of what I wrote to do it)
[https://github.com/OhioVR/nextcloud_debian_install_scripts/t...](https://github.com/OhioVR/nextcloud_debian_install_scripts/tree/master/installation%20bash%20scripts)
If you want to learn a whole software stack, building and administration to
just TRY a program ONCE I won't stop you. But there are better ways like using
docker.
~~~
zeta0134
I use docker for my build system for this very reason, as my chain depends on
a difficult to install Autodesk SDK, which requires a very specific version of
Python. I don't expect it to work properly on most modern Linux distributions
without virtualenv and other advanced trickery, and there's not even a chance
on Windows. With Docker though, once I had the environment set up, unfamiliar
newcomers on the three major platforms can then compile and run the project
with minimal fuss.
(Of course, in the future I'll be working to remove that odd dependency
entirely, but for now, this works.)
It helps that in my particular case, the build _target_ is an embedded
platform, so I don't need to worry about native details in the final
executable; hiding the environmental details in the container doesn't matter
all that much.
~~~
xtrapolate
I'd personally just prepare a small VirtualBox image with everything required
to build the code, and release that instead.
------
noxToken
A mod may want to update the URL from the homepage to a permalink[0]. The next
comic update will ruin this post.
[0]: [https://xkcd.com/1988/](https://xkcd.com/1988/)
~~~
dang
Done. Thanks!
------
newscracker
Someone needs to talk to Randall Munroe (author of xkcd) and update the
explanation for this. [1] I’m not sure if the comic is taking a dig at those
who use Docker or at Docker itself or both (in every case, putting together
things they don’t understand well but claiming to have accomplished
“enlightenment”).
[1]:
[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1988](https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1988)
~~~
kelnos
My take is that it's not even really Docker-specific, but Docker users are a
convenient example. There are plenty of programmers (Docker-using and
otherwise) who just copy-paste code and glue together frameworks without
really understanding what they're doing.
~~~
kakwa_
CS is a magic blackbox and/or a magic cooking book for a lot of people in the
industry.
------
ropeadopepope
I remember when xkcd used to be funny.
~~~
optimuspaul
well good, your short term memory is in tact.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Twits on Twitter are no help in a crisis... - michaelpinto
http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/twits-on-twitter-are-no-help-in-a-crisis-20110315-1bvgb.html
======
noibl
How not to change mass behaviour: insult your audience in the headline, try to
influence the lowest common denominator and ignore trend-setters, tell people
to stop doing something they want to do without providing an alternative.
People who want to talk vacantly about an unfolding event will do so, and will
not read articles like this. If social media adepts see a signal:noise
problem, they know how to create new channels. That's the whole point of the
internet.
~~~
michaelpinto
The article did give some very clear suggestions: \- Give directly to the Red
Cross instead of lady gaga \- Don't abuse hashtags in an emergency
Even back in the days of the CB Radio craze there were very specific rules for
emergencies — if Twitter is going to evolve into something like that it will
need a similar set of rules
~~~
noibl
Donations are not an alternative to chatter though and charity hijacking is
nothing new. 'Don't' is not an alternative to anything and 'abuse' is
subjective, as is 'emergency' incidentally. #jan25 was many things to many
people.
CB is bandwidth-limited and provides few options for resource discovery in
comparison to the internet.
In case it's not clear, what I'm saying is that it's the responsibility of
broadcasters, guerrilla or otherwise, to find effective uses for the
communication tools at hand.
------
johnyqi
People use twitter (and other SM sites) mostly as emotional toilets, throwing
out there whatever gets to their mind. This wil not change likely, it's
sickness of the masses who are mostly not taking things responsible, some do
but they get buried by this random nonsense.
Thats why I follow on Twitter maximum 50 people and only those who are focused
on providing useful information and not whether they got drunk yesterday and
today they woke up with huge headache.
Saying that you are sending prayers and light on twitter to people in need is
just one big excuse for doing nothing and continuing with your breakfast while
you feel good about yourself.
------
fleitz
Thats like saying going to church is no help in a crisis. It helps people deal
with the emotional toll of loss and a removal of a large part of meaning in
their life. The exchange of thoughts and hopes for another are one of the most
powerful ties that bind humanity.
Wouldn't the japanese largely be using kanji hashtags? This seems like faux
outrage. I have a feeling given the vapidity of Lady Gaga's fan base that it
would lead to more money going to the charity to sell bracelets than would be
donated.
I see a lot of ads on that page isn't the author using a crisis to sell ads on
his paper?
~~~
biot
My read from the article is that it's more akin to calling 911 during an
emergency to tell the operators what a great job they're doing and that your
thoughts are with them. Obviously a tweet has a much smaller impact, but
multiply that behavior by tens of thousands of people it's not hard to imagine
legitimate crisis messages scrolling out of view when someone finally gets
signal and catches up on the last four hours of tweets.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Test Automation for Asset Control - mhmtio
https://terrafino-solutions.com/adetta/
======
mhmtio
Hello, creator here. You can learn a bit more about Adetta, our test
automation software for Asset Control, here:
[https://terrafino-solutions.com/blog/adetta/adetta-
introduct...](https://terrafino-solutions.com/blog/adetta/adetta-
introduction/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece - kylesellas
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/17/macedonia-greece-dispute-name-accord-prespa
======
JumpCrisscross
I continue to regard this as the stupidest geopolitical dispute our reality
can safely support.
~~~
Foivos
What would it mean for Portugal if Spain decided to change its name to Iberia?
This is exactly what is happening here. They want to be named after a
geographical region which is way bigger than their borders.
~~~
newfoundglory
Yea, it's as silly as a country claiming to be the "United States of America"
when lol, Canada and Mexico and all of South America would like a word...
~~~
PhasmaFelis
I eventually figured out that this is largely an issue with terminology.
In Central/South America, it's generally taught that everything from Nunavut
to Cape Horn is a single continent, America. When the US calls itself
"America," that's seen as a deliberate attempt to claim primacy over the whole
continent.
In English-speaking North America, it's generally taught that "America" is the
country and "North America/South America" are the continents, so we're
befuddled by the irritation.
This is why Canada, actually, doesn't appear to have an issue with the
"America" thing.
~~~
romwell
>in English-speaking North America, it's generally taught that "America" is
the country and "North America/South America" are the continents
aaaaaand you don't see any problem here, no?
Let's try again. With that logic, there'd be no problem with Germany calling
itself "Europe":
"What's the problem? When we say 'Europe', we mean our home country, a large
part of the region known as 'Western Europe', and disjoint from 'Eastern
Europe' \- everybody here is befuddled by why the Greeks are upset! The
Austrians are totally on board with it, by the way."
~~~
pseudalopex
Words can mean different things in different languages and different contexts.
In English-speaking cultures, North and South America are separate continents.
"America" is understood to mean the USA. The polite term for someone from the
USA is "American". Calling a Canadian "American" is impolite.
In Spanish-speaking cultures, América is a single continent. "Estados Unidos"
is understood to mean "de América", not "Mexicanos". People from the USA are
commonly called "estadounidense", "norteamericano", or "americano". It's
polite for outsiders to use "estadounidense".
Neither language is indigenous to the Americas, so why not just use the polite
words in each language?
------
crypt1d
Considering how strong nationalistic propaganda is these days in the Balkans,
if this thing passes all the referendums, etc needed to make it a reality, it
will be a huge win. Congrats
------
ninjamayo
I really hope things change for the better. Being from the north of Greece I
know first hand the difficulties with the name. I am very passionate about it
but I understand we live in a different world. My feeling is that the Greek
government and their NATO, EU allies pushed this forward now in order to stop
the imperialistic plans of Erdogan in the region. I think with more Balkan
countries in the EU, NATO influences start and stop with the West not the
Russians, not the Erdoganites.
~~~
ryanlol
>I am very passionate about it
Could you perhaps expand on this a little? I have a very hard time
understanding why someone would be passionate about something like this.
~~~
fibbra
FYROM is a neighboring country to Greece. For the last 20+ years, the two
countries were on a stalemate on this. Greece did not invest much into their
northern neighbor. Turkey with Erdogan has more economic involvement in FYROM
than Greece, even if there are no traditional links between them.
~~~
newfoundglory
I don't think the question was "what is Macedonia" but more like "please
explain why this matters to you".
------
djif
"...ending...": in fact, it has just begun.. There's a long way until this
'agreement' becomes a 'reality' (referendum and constitutional changes in
FYROM and then vote in both parliaments). But most importantly the will of the
people has been ignored so only the near future will show what will actually
happen.
For a historical reference about this issue and the Greek identity of
Macedonia: [https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/6265/was-
alexand...](https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/6265/was-alexander-
the-great-greek-or-macedonian)
~~~
fifnir
Which will of which people was ignored?
~~~
shp0ngle
Both.
Nationalist Greeks are angry and so do nationalist Makedonians.
I would think both countries have more important things to protest about than
name change, but then I don't live on Balkans.
~~~
ben_w
Will of the people != will of the nationalists.
Can’t really say the will of the people is being ignored when referenda are
planned, referenda which one can reasonably still presume will be binding.
~~~
v_lisivka
Both Greece and Macedonia are national countries, so in this case will of the
people == will of the nationalists.
~~~
newfoundglory
Greece probably shouldn't have elected an anti-nationalist governing party
then.
~~~
v_lisivka
Some nations have home: their own country, so in these cases people == nation,
and will of the people == will of the nation.
------
emptyfile
A total embarrassment for both nations that it lasted so long.
~~~
fibbra
It has been a big embarrassment.
The 'macedonian' (irl: south slavic) language was recognized as a language in
1977 at a UN standards meeting that took place in Athens.
When Yugoslavia was broken in pieces, the issue of the name for FYROM should
have been resolved then and there. The most promising name was North
Macedonia. Oh the irony.
~~~
NeoBasilisk
I think that relative to the other issues that occurred with other former
Yugoslav republics, a naming dispute was easily ignored at the time.
------
shapiro92
I personally do not care about the naming. Name each place / country whatever
you want. What I care about is the political games that are being played
behind it.
People in this thread miss one point about FYROM, they want to use the name
Makedonia with relations to the ancient Makedonas. Which in turns creates
issues with the Greek nation.
Now with the new "deal" they will take the name North Macedonia but they
strictly mention that they do not have any relation to the Ancient Makedonas.
So at the end of the day, why didnt the two goverment or EU or UN take 20
historians and ask them, "guys do they bare the right to have that name?"
Whatever the historians say should be the verdict.
Now as for the name, there is a reason it is being pushed right now. The
balkans are a chessboard for many many years and we will see soon the effects
on "North Macedonia".
~~~
jcranmer
> Now with the new "deal" they will take the name North Macedonia but they
> strictly mention that they do not have any relation to the Ancient
> Makedonas. So at the end of the day, why didnt the two goverment or EU or UN
> take 20 historians and ask them, "guys do they bare the right to have that
> name?" Whatever the historians say should be the verdict.
The name Macedonia expanded to cover the modern country of Macedonia sometime
during the Roman Empire. The historians (well, everyone but the Greeks) would
all agree that there is absolutely no issue with calling the modern country of
Macedonia from a historical naming perspective. Sure, there's confusion
between the Slavic-speaking Macedonians and the Hellenic-speaking Ancient
Macedonians, but this is far from the only instance of the same name referring
to completely different entities.
~~~
Foivos
As you said the Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory
of the modern country. Add to this the fact the nationalists want the modern
country to eventually gain all these territories. And before you claim, that
these people are minority, having been there it seems that a lot of people
share these feelings. For example you can see everywhere maps where the
borders of the modern country are way more expanded including a huge part of
Greece.
~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern
> country_
Should people in Western Turkey get pissed off about Greece calling itself
Greece?
~~~
DmenshunlAnlsis
Are you aware of Cyprus?
------
Svip
So can Luxembourg claim the Belgian province of Luxembourg back then?
~~~
black_puppydog
Greece didn't claim the country for itself, it claimed the _name_ for it's own
northern province.
~~~
Svip
Greece's logic in disapproving of the name Macedonia is that they fear that
Macedonia (the republic) could some day claim the Greek province of Macedonia.
By that logic, so should Luxembourg (the grand duchy) be able to claim the
Belgian province of the same name.
~~~
seszett
There's a difference though, in that the province of Luxembourg was indeed a
part of Luxembourg (the country) not even 200 years ago. So it would be a much
more legitimate claim.
~~~
Tharkun
I don't think the rich Grand Duchy would be terribly interested in acquiring
the empoverished Belgian province.
------
everdev
> By agreeing to rename itself the Republic of North Macedonia the country
> will replace an interim accord under which it joined the UN 23 years ago as
> the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
> The agreement means Skopje will need to make more than 150 changes to its
> constitution before Greece brings the pact before its own parliament for
> ratification – a task replete with challenges for Zaev, who like Tsipras has
> taken a progressive view on the issue, and faces considerable opposition
> from nationalists. Macedonia’s president, Gjorge Ivanov, has refused to
> support the deal, presaging a stormy few months ahead.
Seems silly that a name change means that legal agreements have to be re-
ratified.
~~~
asymmetric
They should've used a _COUNTRY_NAME_ global variable.
------
elorant
In Greece there's quite an uproar for this agreement. 70% of the population is
against it and in the northern parts of the country the government's
acceptance rates have dropped to single digit percentages.
~~~
andmarios
This is just a poll from a right (I would argue even far-right) paper, so
better take it with a grain of salt.
~~~
elorant
True dat
------
mishkovski
Relevant:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Macedon...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Macedonia#Macedonian_Question)
------
Nihilartikel
If their troll game were more on point, they could have gone with
"SuperGreece".
------
zerostar07
Yet Guardian still calls it macedonia though
~~~
fibbra
It makes you wonder if anything will change when this agreement gets
implemented.
The official name is still FYROM and will switch to North Macedonia when the
agreement starts getting implemented. In a few months or so.
------
bovermyer
So, naming is important, then?
Would never have guessed that.
------
risto1
I was born in what was then Yugoslavia (now North Macedonia). In order to get
a good full perspective of this issue I think you have to talk to several
Greeks and North Macedonians. This has been my perspective and experience:
It's mostly split between the population -- half (probably most) of us don't
really seem to care about this issue, the other half feels pretty upset about
it. It's really important to note that not a single Macedonian I've ever
talked to has ever claimed that Ancient Macedonia isn't part of Greek history,
I really don't know where Greeks are getting that from. Almost everyone here
goes to vacation in Greece every year, and concedes when some Greeks say
"Skopje?" to suggest that we're not Macedonians. We just nod and shrug it off,
and say "Yeah, Skopje". Most people really don't care about this, if we did we
wouldn't be going to Greece on vacation or buy Greek products, both of which
we do a fair amount of. Some of us even wonder why we're celebrating a serial
killer at all (Alexander the Great). In order to understand what's going on, I
think you need to separate yourself from what politicians are thinking and
doing compared to what the people are thinking and doing. Also let's face it,
governments love to manipulate group identities to serve their interests.
What Macedonians are upset about is that they feel like Macedonia has a shared
history and Greece doesn't want to acknowledge it, and it's leveraging it's
strong international influence to set us back and/or make us look bad. We're a
small, formerly communist, landlocked country in the Balkans, we barely have
any international influence at all. It's a no-brainer that most countries will
side with Greece, and why there's EU pressure for us to change the name. We
definitely wouldn't be able to dispute Greece's territory, especially since
1952 when Greece became part of NATO. We're seriously no threat to them even
without NATO. I don't think this is about the name or territorial ambitions,
or if it was it was like that a long time ago and is no longer relevant. It's
deeper than that.
People on the thread and the previous one have talked about the Balkan Wars
being relevant to understanding this, and that the then conservative Greek
govt in the mid-20th century suppressed a lot of North Macedonian speaking
peoples living in Greek Macedonia to force them to say that they're Greek and
that they can't speak slavic, much like how Bulgarians forced us to say that
we're Bulgarian and speak Bulgarian when we were occupied by them, or how some
people think we should be part of Greater Albania, or how some Serbians view
us as South Serbians, and that Greece wants to cover this up. There's probably
something there to look into, the Balkans is full of territorial grabs like
that. I don't really know anything about this part of history.
A lot of us just feel like we're being bullied to an extent, and that Greece
is basically being a d*ck about it. Ancient Macedonia has mostly been part of
Greece, but Paeonia (North Macedonia) has for a large part of it's existence,
either been a dependent territory of Ancient Macedonia or has been fully a
part of Ancient Macedonia when it was at the height of it's power. We didn't
just pull the name out of nowhere, we've been called Macedonians since
forever. Some of us that are upset about this think that we shouldn't be
giving in to powerful external forces and that we should just make a stand.
And that by giving in we're showing ourselves as weak and easy to manipulate,
and would affect future negotiations. Some of us others think we're being
stubborn, and that we should be the bigger person and just concede, because
it's a pretty stupid dispute and I agree. A lot of us just don't care, or if
we used to care we're jaded now after all this time and don't care anymore.
We have a lot of shared history, we're neighbors after all. We don't have the
same language, sure, but our traditional dress and textiles looks similar, our
dance is similar, we both say "Opa!", we have similar traditional food. We
used to be the same country several times in history, during the Roman,
Byzantine and Ottoman Empires. I don't think this is really about the name,
it's more about that North Macedonia is mostly made up of slavic people with a
large Albanian-Macedonian population and from a formerly communist country,
and Greeks just don't want to be associated with former communists or slavic
people.
It really sucks because I like a lot about Greek history and culture, one of
my favorite college professors taught Greek Philosophy to me. Greeks gave us
democracy and the best philosophers along with India and China, all of which
is still extremely relevant today. I'm glad we've come to a consensus about
the name. We've both wasted a lot of energy over something pretty stupid, and
we really should be getting along a lot better. We've wasted our time with
what could've been quality time with our families or more richer life
experiences, or improving the human condition. Nationalism, tribalism and
groupthink are all diseases that I hope the 21st century will rid itself of.
~~~
axilmar
Greek here.
The term 'Macedonia' does not refer to a geographical region only. It refers
to a geographical region plus the connection to ancient Greece.
Slavic people like you have no right to use the term Macedonia, because you
are not related to Macedonia, the ancient-Greek derived sub-ethnicity. You
only live in Macedonia, you are not a Macedonian.
History is full of examples of people that moved to other areas but did not
'steal' the history of the area they ended up into.
Turks moved to Ionia, they didn't become Ionians. Greeks moved to Pontos, they
didn't become Turks. Spaniards moved to America, they didn't become Indians.
British moved to Australia, they didn't become Aboriginals.
Just because your progenitors moved to the area of Macedonia, that does not
entitle your people to claim they are Macedonians.
Yes, you are a separate people, you have your own culture, language, you have
become a nation, and we, Greeks, certainly recognize that.
But claiming you are Macedonian and you speak the Macedonian language? that's
a fallacy. You should just use another term.
I am saying all the above in friendly spirit and with the relevant historical
sciences in mind. I am not a Greek nationalist, I only want justice. And in
this case, judging from the historical records, justice means you Slavic
people are not entitled to use the term Macedonia in any form.
The ancient Kingdom of Macedonia was 100% Greek, judging from the historical
records, the written works, the names of places and people, the language used,
the art forms, and the fact that the rest of Greece accepted Macedonians as
Greek.
Beyond justice, what might be the reasons for us Greeks not wanting other
people to take our history? well, here are the reasons:
1) there is the danger that, in the future, the connection between North
Macedonia and Greek Macedonia becomes the geopolitical cause for an unforseen
yet block of power to change borders in the area.
History is full of examples of geopolitical blocks using specific
interpretations of history, culture and geography to cause problems.
2) Greek products from Macedonia can no longer be named 'Macedonian' in other
countries.
I understand it's difficult for you to accept it, but you have been actually
scammed. From the moment you were born, to now, in all your life, you have
been indocrinated to believe you are Macedonian, that you speak Macedonian,
etc. What a shame! this has been done for political purposes.
If only you could let the notion that your people and any form of the word
Macedonia has any connection, the world would be so nice!!!
~~~
jiouur903
This is ridiculous.
You're saying people don't have a right to use a certain name because it meant
something else hundreds of years ago.
Your comment is as flawed as "my culture is not your prom dress." Nobody has a
monopoly on culture.* That's now how culture works. It's always changing and
shifting, and getting borrowed between people.
Go back far enough in history, and you'll see that Greek identity didn't
always exist. Greece was a bunch of independent city states, and people were
more likely to identify with that city state than with the notion of a greater
Greece.
*That is not to say that every borrowing of culture is respectful, or fair. Obviously, whenever you borrow from another culture you must be responsible in how you do so.
------
Lucadg
last time I was in Macedonia I saw a man pulling a big plough by hand. No
horse or tractor. Unrelated, I know.
------
everydaypanos
Isn't it ironic that things like Mickey Mouse are super copyrighted that even
if you name your son that you will get in trouble. On the other hand things
like historical references(Macedonia) are up for grabs by anyone and they even
attract supporters of the type "self naming is a right"..
~~~
dalbasal
Disney hasn't had a "regime change", and the regime question was quite clear
at the time Mickey was invented.
Macedonia (Kingdom? Empire? Ancient ethnicity?/dialect?/polity?) had lots of
regime changes. We can't even be sure that the Greeks, at the time of Philip &
Alexander considered Macedonia to be "Greece." You could argue either way. You
could also argue that half the world is the "real" Macedonia. Bagdad has a
decent claim.
I can see how Greece sees it, that naming may lead to territorial claims. That
aside, Names are just names. I don't think this name is a crime against
logic/history.
This is like insisting that what gay "really" means is happy. It's neither
true or false statement. It's nonsensical.
~~~
trab
>> We can't even be sure that the Greeks, at the time of Philip & Alexander
considered Macedonia to be "Greece."
This is plain wrong. There is absolutely no dispute what so ever among
historians about the Greek origin of Macedonia. The new country of Northern
Macedonia in no way disputes this either. Comments like yours are the prime
proof that what happened is very very wrong.
This is a quote from Wikipedia about Alexander the great.
>> Alexander was awarded the generalship of Greece and used this >> authority
to launch his father's pan-Hellenic project to lead >> the Greeks in the
conquest of Persia.
~~~
dalbasal
If the wars had gone differently, Greek historians would have recorded a
glorious defeat of the northern barbarians by the Greeks. Alexander won, and
so the story features "awarding a generalship."
I'm not making the case for either narratives. I'm making the case that both
narratives are fictions, a symbolic language narrating a one-damned-thing-
after-another truth. I don't think Alexander/Macedonia was "really" Greek or
not Greek. I also think this meant different things at different times. Modern
nationalism is a very dominant paradigm in our times. It is new though. Even
though it's hard to imagine it, "nationality" was not a dominant paradigm
either for personal identity or politics throughout most of history. Alexander
didn't seem to give much of a damn about nationality.
~~~
fibbra
Ancient Macedonia was part of Ancient Greece.
Yes, the city-states have been fighting all the time, just like Athens and
Sparta. But they have been part of Ancient Greece.
In the case of FYROM (still the official name until the agreement gets
implemented soonish), they have been appropriating the Greek identity. That
was not just some individuals at FYROM, it was the whole political apparatus
of FYROM since the 90s.
~~~
dalbasal
Again, these are narratives.
Was ancient Libya/Carthage or even Spain a part of ancient Lebanon/Israel?
They were certainly a part of the same culture, in the same way "Hellenic
Culture" was a thing. They spoke the same Language, shared customs and myths
and such.
I understand that if Jordan remained themselves "Canaan" or "Phoenicia" then
Israel, Palestine, & Lebanon might object. Territorial implications, etc. It's
not made up though. Jordan has a "right" to that legacy too. That language and
culture were spoken and practiced in Amman as well as Tyre even if Tyre is
what we think of as the original "hub."
------
onetimemanytime
Greece has objected because they can; they have a veto on new EU members and
have made this a red line. Other EU countries technically can tell Greece to
accept Macedonia as it is (was) or no aid etc, but that's an extreme.
Considering that "Macedonia" extends also into Greece it's not unreasonable to
differentiate, into Northern and the other part. Without wanting to start a
war, today's "Macedonians" are mostly slavs, and Albanians make about 25-30%.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Who is tech's most influential person? Vote Here - tdenk94
http://blog.venturestorm.com/techs-most-influential-person-championship/
======
sigmar
<snark warning>
I have a hard time understanding why people would vote Zuckerberg (unless they
are equating that more money means more influence). If he is the most
influential, I see little evidence that he is using his influence to effect
anything meaningful to happen.
Facebook has only advanced the status quo since inception (iterative, not
innovative). It seems to just blatantly rip off other services to advance
their market position (periscope, medium) or just acquires competition
(instagram, whatsapp).
</snark>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Donald Knuth's Fantasia Apocalyptica - tosh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbvsKpPnQao&list=PLvixIGKr5sJffdfwecygYqhXsgz-EBCC8
======
tosh
just realized this was already discussed 2 months ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19950245](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19950245)
------
tosh
""" Fantasia Apocalyptica World Premiere Composed 2012-2017 by Donald E. Knuth
Performed by Jan Overduin Illustrations by Duane R. Bibby January 10th, 2018,
Studio Acusticum, Piteå, Sweden
\---
About the composition :
The Biblical book of Revelation, also know as Apocalypse (Uncovering), is a
mystical work that is filled with symbols. It consists chiefly of a dream that
was recorded in the first century A.D. by Saint John the Divine. The dramatic
events in this famous dream run the gamut of human emotions, as they highlight
crucial aspects of life, death and spirituality.
During the 60s, Donald Knuth became fascinated with the ways in which the
author of Revelations emphasized many different numbers (2, 3, 3.5, 4, 7, 12,
24...) and gave them symbolic significance. Knuth soon began to wonder about
the possibility of creating a pleasing musical work that would incorporate
Revelation's numbers and other mystical symbols in essentially their original
order. In 2011 he noted that such a project "may be crazy, but a 'muse' has
been encouraging me to embark upon it for more than 40 years. ...I'm intrigued
by the fact that so many artists and writers have been inspired by
[Revelation], for nearly 2000 years by now; thus I can't resist the thought
that perhaps I too might be led by these ancient words to create something
that might be newly meaningful to people of the 21st century"
The Greek text of Revelation, which contains almost exactly 10,000 words, has
therefore been closely followed as the source of this composition. Knuth
identified more than 100 principal motifs in that text, and assigned a musical
equivalent to each of them. One hears these motifs repeatedly building on each
other, as they eventually become familiar.
Some of the the motifs are melodic; for example, 'God' is the three-note theme
'sol, mi, do'. Some are rhythmic; for example, a double-dotted rhythm
represents royalty. Some are harmonic: 'man' is a Tristan chord, 'servant' is
a Petroushka chord. Some are musical idioms: 'angel' is an arpeggio, 'grace'
is a grace note. Some are musical basics: 'woe' is a blues scale, 'elders' are
a chromatic scale, 'lion' is an octatonic scale', 'sweet' and 'sour' are major
and minor, 'prophet' is a contrary motion, 'sun' is a palindrome, 'gold' is
close harmony, 'blood' corresponds to notes that are clotted together. Some
come from trigrams of the I Ching: 'earth' is down-down-down, 'heaven' is up-
up-up, 'fire is up-down-up, 'water' is down-up-down. Some come from nature:
'lamb' is a bleating sound, 'horse' is a whinny.
Some motifs are effects attainable only on a pipe organ: 'star' is a
Zimbelstern, 'name' is a pedal point; 'open' and 'close' are represented by
opening and closing the boxes that surround the pipes.
Some motifs in this translation in this translation invoke the syles of great
composers: 'seal' alludes to Alain, 'truth' alludes to Bach, 'mighty' alludes
to Beethoven, 'voice' alludes to Borodin, 'throne' alludes to Brubeck, 'cloud'
alludes to Debussy, 'word' alludes to Franck, 'temple' alludes to Gershwin,
'book' alludes to Hindemith, 'worship' alludes to Messiaen, 'blasphemy'
alludes to Schoenberg.
Since the book of Revelation encompasses a huge variety of different events
and emotions, no one style can appropriately represent the whole story.
Therefore Fantasia Apocalyptica is an eclectic mix of many styles: Ancient
Greek music; medieval chants; changeringing; Baroque counterpoint; near-
Eastern folk music; shape-note singing; spirituals; calypso; Romantic
symphonies, chorales, and combinatorial patterns; atonal music; jazz and
Broadway; rock and rap. The music of contemporary ring tones is also present.
All of these styles work together as parts of a unified whole, thanks to the
versatility of a pipe organ.
Fantasia Apocalyptica also pays homage to dozens of choral compositions that
have been based on Revelation. Sometimes the settings of the same text by
different composers from different eras are found to fit together extremely
well. """
via
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvixIGKr5sJffdfwecygY...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvixIGKr5sJffdfwecygYqhXsgz-
EBCC8)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask YC: What project to work on? - project_idea
Although there have been threads like this before, I would really appreciate if you could mention some project ideas of what you would like to see built but don't have time/interest in building it yourself. Also any personal advice is welcome, to the extent that it is possible in such an anonymous setting.<p>A bit of background: I have recently quit grad-school and I have no interest in working at big corp. and interesting startups are hard to find in my geographical location. While I was in grad school or when I worked at companies I constantly felt I had one great idea after the other for software/web projects, I even wrote down several of them, for when I will have time to work on them. Well, now I have the time, and in fact I've been mostly idle for a few months but none of the ideas I thought about earlier seem that great anymore. Either they are done already, or they don't solve a problem, or they are trivial, or they are impossible to do. Some might be doable but not interesting to me at the moment. I can post some in comments if anyone interested. It seems that being idle really hurts one's chances of stumbling upon interesting problems to work on.<p>I would like to work on a project addressing some real problem, it can be any sort of web/desktop/server programming, I don't mind working on something that seems overly ambitious or open-ended, but some small concrete problem is nice also. I prefer something with a machine learning/statistics/optimization bend, but not necessarily.<p>Sorry for the long rant, long story short: what to work on ? or how do you find projects to work on ? I deliberately ignored the business aspects, assuming that once you are solving someone's problem you can start figuring out strategies for monetizing it, etc.
======
project_idea
Here are some random ideas I thought of but not pursuing at the moment:
\- a device for blind people that would give some description of the visual
scene (using simple camera, for ex. read any text that is currently visible,
or just describe somehow what is on the image so that it helps imagining it)
\- a static site engine (cms): just generate the site as static pages in a
compilation stage with a simple templating system
\- an online two-player game based on Conway's game of life (two different
colors, when a new cell is born, it takes the color of the majority of the
neighbors, in each round the players can add a number of cells in a certain
part of the board, goal is to wipe out other color)
\- software for modelling paper airplane folding (improving designs, etc.)
\- a wrapper around sqlite to make it work as client-server
\- a zooming GUI that can be used on websites
\- a framework for designing flexible layouts of webpages, so that they can be
changed with a few parameters, which can afterwards be optimized automatically
to have best conversion, etc.
\- an art history game where player would see a small portion of a painting
and would have to guess artist, age, technique, etc.
\- a visualization for website visitors logs, where nodes are different pages,
edges are the links between pages and a poster that shows the most frequent
visit scenarios on the website
\- a visual image search engine without textual queries, where one just starts
by browsing a small set of images and picks in what direction to move on
\- etc.
~~~
jacquesm
I like the 'life wars', that's a clever one.
I'll raise your glider one f-pentomino.
Set it up so that you only have to agree to the number of life cells you can
both place, as soon as the last cell is placed the game fires and runs to
completion.
Two sliders, starting at 50 cells or so, both players can lower the slider as
long as the cells have not been all places. Each player sets a cell to their
colour in turn.
Excellent little idea, it won't make you any money in the short run but it has
a fair chance of going viral.
Core wars for life.
Really neat little idea.
edit: and now the Hacker News variation on this, set it up so there is an API
where hackers can pit their skills against each other, a sort of face off
arena for cellular automaton placement strategies.
There is your machine learning angle.
For extra points provide a schedule and a way for spectators to follow the
action.
I'd help you build it / host it :)
~~~
project_idea
Thanks, these are very nice ideas, especially the API for agents. I'd like to
build this sometime, as it should be really fun to play... There are some
issues in gameplay that I couldn't figure out yet, though. for example running
until completion could be quite hard to detect, as there can be oscillators
with a long period. Also, not sure if the board should be circular, to allow
re-entry or not... I was thinking whether players can place their cells
anywhere or just in their own restricted "corners" of the board. My main
concern however is whether the whole thing would be predictable enough to
allow some sort of strategy or it would just be too chaotic... I also sent you
a private message if you'd like to discuss...
~~~
jacquesm
No cells live or die in x generations = end of game.
Anywhere, one after the other.
~~~
project_idea
I meant one of these: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillator_(CA)>
So cells keep dying and being born forever, yet the game is stable.
~~~
jacquesm
Ah, good point! You'd have to keep quite a few digests of the 'state' to
figure out that you're caught in a loop, the 'halting problem' in disguise.
You could work out the size of the cycle by checking the lower and upper limit
of the populations though, if the lower and upper limits have not changed for
a number of cycles it could also be end-of-game.
~~~
m_eiman
Store evey state, and if you ever get a state you've already stored you know
you're in a loop. Should be possible to store it in very few bytes in "raw"
form, and then compress it for good measure.
~~~
jacquesm
hash the state..
even then, if the period is very long it might be problematic
------
jacquesm
> Also any personal advice is welcome, to the extent that it is possible in
> such an anonymous setting.
That's your choice, not mine.
> none of the ideas I thought about earlier seem that great anymore.
This is very common. I have this when I shower ;) Go stand under the shower
long enough and sure, one idea after another. Mostly because I can't access
the internet when I'm showering so there is no context. Then as I go and check
feasibility, others active in the field, invariably the majority of them pale.
> what to work on ?
Without any stated goals this is a very very hard question.
You'd have to at least come up with a couple of boundary conditions, such as
how long you can afford to work on this without any income, how much time you
are willing to expend, whether it has to be a strictly one man/woman job, your
skill level and so on.
That you quit grad school doesn't mean much, I've seen people with impressive
degrees that would not be able to run an icecream stand, let alone a software
or service business, and I've seen high school drop-outs that were doing just
that and doing fine.
As for small concrete problems, if what you are looking for is work experience
instead of running your own start-up for a make-or-break effort not to land in
a job somewhere there is a middle ground, it is consulting.
If you're good you could simply hire yourself out by the hour to software
companies or companies needing software written for them in your region. If
you do that well then roughly 1/4 of your time 'booked' should pay for basic
living expenses.
Then you still have 3/4 left to work on you own stuff.
best of luck!
~~~
rw
What resources would you recommend for someone to get started with consulting?
~~~
jacquesm
A program to track your hours, something to make a contact database and a todo
list. All of those are pretty essential.
Billing and such you can do with any word processor.
If you go this route make sure that you reserve enough for taxes once the
money starts coming in. Plenty of people fall into that trap. A good rule of
thumb is to take the 'gross' tax rate and reserve that much right away
whenever a bill gets paid on a savings account.
Then when tax time comes around you have your deductibles and you end up with
some money left over instead of a hole to fill.
------
neoneye
Pick a small project to begin with that can be coded in 1 month.
A great source of inspiration is: <http://osx.iusethis.com/>
Go though some programs while thinking "I can do better than this". Pick a
useful tool that you actually can code with little effort.
Then get the payment system working and try sell it. It's ok if it doesn't
sell.
Then start coding a bigger tool and use the payment system and homepage setup
and all the knowledge you have learned from the first project.
------
mooneater
My personal take: Good ideas dont form in a vacuum.
Go talk to people in other professions (NOT computer-programmers) in depth
about what they do.
Look for pains they have, that can be addressed with IT.
Boom.
------
jeromec
I have one for you. It's something I thought of long ago and have an interest
in but no immediate plans to work on. Develop a program that can answer based
on plain English. The obvious value would be to apply it to search engines
(huge money). People already type questions into Google because they don't
know any better. Maybe they should be able to do this. Example: "What is the
best restaurant in New York?" The challenge for the software is understanding
all the words starting with 'what' because if it was 'where' it changes the
answer. Notice also that this answer would be subjective, so that has to be
dealt with. Yet another problem is the ambiguity of 'New York' because the
questioner probably meant 'New York City' etc. As you can see it's a huge
challenge, but one which has obvious financial reward if solved. I'm currently
working on a project with some search aspects but it doesn't deal with this
particular problem head on. If you have an interest we might do something
together. The answer to "Where are my car keys?" should be either "I don't
know" or "Have you checked in the car?".
------
cmars232
A BugMeNot-like service that does not centrally host any data and therefore
cannot control which domains are supported. Two possible approaches might be:
1\. Use some sort of generative approach with hashing, salting, and a PRNG.
Advantage: minimal infrastructure. Challenge: maximizing probability of a
successful login, when the domains that don't like it might try to poison it.
2\. Create some kind of P2P sharing for the logins. Challenge: it should be as
easy to install and use as the BugMeNot firefox plugin, or it will never catch
on.
BugMeNot is practically useless now, since it seems to comply with all take-
down requests.
------
nearestneighbor
> While I was in grad school or when I worked at companies I constantly felt I
> had one great idea after the other for software/web projects
Ideas come more easily when you are not idle.
------
RiderOfGiraffes
> _... interesting startups are hard to find in my geographical location._
To within 300km or so, where are you?
~~~
project_idea
Eastern Europe...
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
Random advice from someone who doesn't know your skills or situation ...
If you want to create something you have to create something. From all your
ideas you have to pick one and build something. Build it as fast as you can,
let people know about it, see if they find it useful, listen to their
feedback, and remember everything they find wrong.
Then decide - push this through to the next stage, or scrap it and start
again. I would say you should go 80/20 - 80% push/change/adapt/enhance, and
20% scrap and start again, using what you've learned.
Toss a coin - two heads in a row you scrap it and start over. That's close
enough.
If you sit and try to find the best idea, or if you take someone else's idea
and try to build it, you won't learn anywhere near as fast. You need to think
of something that you would use, and build it. Give yourself three days to
build, one day to deploy, one day to advertise, and two days to gather some
reaction.
> _... visualization for website visitors ... nodes are different pages, edges
> are the links between pages ..._
Can you do better than this:
<http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/SiteMapExpt.html?HN>
Or this:
<http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/PaulGrahamEssays.html?HN>
Can you do that for any site?
~~~
jacquesm
> I would say you should go 80/20 - 80% push/change/adapt/enhance, and 20%
> scrap and start again,
That's pretty good advice in principle but I'd swap the numerical values :)
Another way of achieving the same effect is to throw a bunch of stuff out
there (such as you've already done) see what kind of feedback you get back,
run with it and just let it sit.
Some things will develop a little traction on their own, as soon as you see
that try to establish a dialogue with your would-be user base, and figure out
what you have to do to keep them coming back.
And because you want to make a living of this you should probably scrap
anything that does not solve a problem that people are willing to pay for. I
realize that removes 95% of the possible projects but that is exactly why it
is a good discriminating factor.
One of the things I've found about HN is that if you make yourself accessible
(so not that anonymous) you get an awful lot more response than if you are
invisible.
People are willing to write in email a lot more than they would put on the
site so if it is no big deal then at least provide a way to reach you via
email.
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
>> _80% push/change/adapt/enhance, 20% scrap ..._
> _That's pretty good advice in principle but I'd swap the numerical values
> :)_
The reason for putting them the way I did is to stop things from being
abandoned too early. I think you need to be willing to do lots, scrap lots,
but you also need to put in hard work on each one. Scrapping them too early
means you don't get a chance to discover and fix the flaws.
Perhaps I should write more about that, but I really believe that 75/25 (to go
with the coin toss idea) really is close to right.
Having said that, you've built and are running sites for money, and my advice
is based on models of building real world businesses.
But I do believe that things should be built fast, deployed fast, _and given
time to develop and be developed._ That's why I say you should only scrap
things 25% of the time. Work hard to prove an idea won't work. If you can't do
that - persist and pursue. But once you can prove it won't work (or won't work
well enough) abandon it and use the experience on your next attempt.
Finally, don't do these things serially, but don't go for too many at once.
Two or three is my gut feeling for a sweet spot.
</blather>
------
tomjen2
Could you please get a micro payment system to work? There are so many
interesting projects that would require this as an infrastructure to build on,
and the road to monetarization is obvious.
------
zackattack
I'm looking for a co-founder for <http://www.hiphopgoblin.com> ...
[email protected]
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Savvy Startups Use Unique Data to Go Viral - bishvili
https://www.techinasia.com/talk/how-savvy-startups-use-unique-data-to-go-viral/
======
jasode
> This survey about how people use their phones while on the toilet only had
> ten questions,
The problem with surveys asking about _behaviors_ is that it gathers
unreliable data.
That's why you get contradictions where men/women say they want features x,y,z
in a partner but they end up being attracted to something else.
Or you survey people about 2 food menu choices and the respondents answer with
the "healthier" choice but the real data from point-of-sale system shows they
ordered the unhealthier option.
Or they say they look at X 1st and then Y 2nd on websites but eye-tracking
software doesn't agree.
It's not that people are dishonest; it's that people are terrible at self-
reporting how they actually behave. The counter-intuitive results need to come
from hidden cameras, point-of-sale data, functional MRI scans, etc instead of
questionnaires.
If the survey is asking about _nouns_ (what they have) instead of _verbs_
(what they think they do), it's more reliable. For example, a survey asking _"
what's your shoe size?"_ or _" how many children do you have?"_ doesn't cause
people to give contradictory answers.
I'm also skeptical of websites using "focus groups" asking people " _would you
pay for X if it had Y?_ " type of questions. You may get better answers by
just trying different things and parsing server logs to measure actual user
engagement. People don't know what they want, or they'll tell you what you
want to hear. When it comes time to actually make a decision about spending
money, their actions contradict the survey answers.
~~~
gee_totes
> The problem with surveys asking about behaviors is that it gathers
> unreliable data.
But the point of doing the surveys is not to gather reliable data -- it's to
generate clickbait headlines that will go viral. Even if the sample size is 10
and p is hacked to bits, people are going to share your "Android Users 3 Times
More Likely to Drop Their Phone in Toilet" blog post.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Call for support. Tor help-desk volunteers - dvdyzag
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2015-August/038713.html
======
mo
I did this for half a year, and it was a great opportunity to learn a broad
spectrum of Tor-related matters. The rest of the Tor people are very
approachable if you need help answering, and there's a lot of material on
Tor's StackExchange that you can point to. This is one of the best ways to
become part of the Tor team. :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dropbox Attempts To Kill Open Source Project - driverdan
http://razorfast.com/2011/04/25/dropbox-attempts-to-kill-open-source-project/
======
dhouston
drew from dropbox here. i hope you guys can give us the benefit of the doubt:
when something pops up that encourages people to turn dropbox into the next
rapidshare or equivalent (the title on HN was suggesting it could be the
successor to torrents), you can imagine how that could ruin the service for
everyone -- illegal file sharing has never been permitted and we take great
pains to keep it off of dropbox. the internet graveyard is filled with
services that didn't take this approach.
so, when something like this gets called to our attention, we have to do
something about it. note that this isn't even by choice -- if we don't take
action, then we look like we are tacitly encouraging it. the point is not to
censor or "kill" it (which is obviously impossible and would be idiotic for us
to try to do), but we sent kindly worded emails to the author and other people
who posted it to take it down for the good of the community so that we don't
encourage an army of pirates to flock to dropbox, and they voluntarily did so.
there were no legal threats or any other shenanigans to the author or people
hosting -- we just want to spend all our time building a great product and not
on cat-and-mouse games with people who try to turn dropbox into an illegal
file sharing service against our wishes. (for what it's worth, dropship
doesn't even work anymore -- we've fixed the deduplication behavior serverside
to prevent "injection" of files you don't actually have, for a variety of
reasons.)
that said, when we disabled public sharing of that file by hash, it auto-
generated an email saying we had received a DMCA takedown notice to the OP,
which was incorrect and not what we intended to do, so i apologize to dan that
this happened.
(*edited the last paragraph: we didn't send a takedown notice, we sent a note
saying that we received a DMCA takedown notice, which was also in error)
~~~
random42
> illegal file sharing has never been permitted and we take great pains to
> keep it off of dropbox.
Which is great, except you are punishing the crime, before it even occurred.
Remember use of torrents are not illegal per se, sharing files which you do
not copyright of, and piracy is.
> there were no legal threats or any other shenanigans to the author or people
> hosting. (EDIT - No applicable. Read Drew's edit.)
DMCA takedown notice is a legal threat. Worse part is, its not even valid,
IANAL, but do _you_ own the copyright of the data or the copyright owner
approached you to issue a DMCA takedown notice?
> it auto-generated a DMCA takedown notice to the OP, which as many pointed
> out here was invalid and particularly inappropriate in this case, and was
> absolutely not what we intended to do.
Please do not send legal notices, without lawyers reviewing them?
~~~
SwellJoe
> Which is great, except you are punishing the crime, before it even occurred.
No, they aren't. They're enforcing the terms of use that Dropbox users agreed
to when signing up.
I don't think asking folks to take stuff down was the correct solution...I
think fixing the bug was the right solution, which they've also done. But, I
don't see how Dropbox is "punishing" anyone, when they're just asking people
to use the service as it is intended.
~~~
tlrobinson
It's clearly a violation of ToS to _use_ Dropship, however, it's less clear
whether it's a violation to _store code_ that has the _potential_ to violate
the ToS.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
Presumably if someone has reverse engineered Dropship¹ then we're not far off
having an FOSS Dropbox-a-like to use it with? I'd have thought that is the
problem Dropbox is most likely to be addressing?
Run your own organisation-wide Dropbox? Yes please.
Edit: ¹ I mean of course created Dropship by reverese engineering Dropbox's
protocols.
~~~
SwellJoe
> Presumably if someone has reverse engineered Dropship¹ then we're not far
> off having an FOSS Dropbox-a-like to use it with?
That's a pretty big stretch. You believe the client-side code to trigger
download of a file that doesn't exist on the system is "not far off from
having an FOSS Dropbox-a-like"? That's like finding a hub cap in the woods,
and deciding you've almost got all the parts needed to construct a car.
I don't believe Dropbox is using any techniques that are secret; I believe
anyone with the know-how, and time, and inclination, could use publicly
available algorithms to replicate everything Dropbox has done. The "secret
sauce" is not the protocol. There are a number of protocols for doing
versioned filed storage (WebDAV, for instance) and a number of protocols for
transferring only the parts of files which have changed (rsync, for instance).
The hard part is in putting them all together, not in any magic to be found in
a few lines of code.
I highly doubt this is all a conspiracy to prevent people from building a FOSS
"Dropbox-a-like". People can already do that, without needing any Dropbox
magic. Oddly enough, no one has. I reckon it's because it's really hard to put
all those pieces together in a way that works easily for end users. Highly
technical users have had these kinds of capabilities for years in the form of
version control systems, rsync, etc. Open Source developers have solved the
hard algorithmic problems already (and Dropbox is standing on their
shoulders). What Dropbox did is make it accessible and usable by anyone.
Do people really need any explanation other than, "Somebody made a mistake and
sent out the wrong email"? They don't strike me as being particularly evil
guys when I've met some of them, and while they aren't bastions of Open Source
generosity as far as I know, they also never seemed to be anti-Open Source, to
me.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _The "secret sauce" is not the protocol._
Verily.
> _People can already do that, without needing any Dropbox magic. Oddly
> enough, no one has. I reckon it's because it's really hard to put all those
> pieces together in a way that works easily for end users._
These two sentences are contradictory. The magic clearly doesn't lie in the
protocol _per se_ or the specific idea but in the implementation. Having a
client that emulates Dropbox _seems_ to be the hard bit strange as that may
sound.
I have used the web interface, but the client is generally the only point of
contact I have if I have a new client that does exactly the same and that
client can be switched to a new server my experience will be >99% unchanged
and, in my scenario, the effectiveness will be the same.
If I can switch service without noticing any change in interaction (dropbox
just sits there after all) and in fact can use the same client with either
dropbox itself or a different server then it seems like a bad thing for
dropbox.
------
tptacek
Consider that maybe what's happening here is boring. Recognize that we all
have a cognitive bias towards narratives, and especially interesting
narratives. The discussion on this story is trying to build a narrative about
Dropbox vs. open source developers. The real story is probably not that
interesting.
The CTO of a service as technically interesting as Dropbox certainly knows
that he can't prevent the disclosure of their proprietary protocols. So
impassioned arguments about "security through obscurity" and "the futility of
trying to hide protocols" aren't adding much to the discussion. Everybody
understands those things. To the extent that Dropbox's protocols factor into
this story, they are obviously a fig leaf.
Thus far, the only thing Dropbox is purported to have done here is to politely
ask a developer to remove an application; then, presumably believing that the
mirror posts were simple nerd-rage, and that the author of the application
agreed with Dropbox, Dropbox's CTO filed takedowns at Github. This is not the
end of the world. As has been amply demonstrated, Dropbox can't effectively
suppress MIT-licensed code, and probably won't try to.
Instead, consider that maybe all Dropbox is trying to do here is establish a
track record of "not wanting Dropbox to become Rapidshare". This story then is
not a "PR nightmare" for them; it's the expected outcome of their actions.
They are trying to communicate both through words and actions that they are
going to do what they can to not be Rapidshare.
That Dropbox cannot technically keep determined nerds from trying to coerce
them into Rapidshare's use case is also not worth arguing about. I think we
all know that's true. But how many of us are going to go out of our way to
stick a thumb in Dropbox's eye?
~~~
anotherjesse
Understandable except the assertion of filing a dmca because he thinks that
the reposts of code are "geek rage". The DMCA provides that you may be liable
for damages (including costs and attorneys fees) if you falsely claim that an
item is infringing your copyrights.
Using this powerful law as a scare tactic isn't acceptable. If you wish to
claim that the code was infact infringing, then the conversation is different.
This seems to be:
* illegal use of dmca by dropbox * dropbox says dropship using reverse engineered sync protocol broke anti-circumvention techniques or contains their copyright
Either of which are bold statments
~~~
tptacek
Are we arguing over whether filing DMCA takedowns on innocuous MIT-licensed
code was a mistake? I'm sorry if I communicated that I didn't think it was a
mistake. But it's my perception right now that _even Dropbox_ thinks this was
a mistake; the guy who wrote this blog post posted more mirrors of the code.
Is Dropbox trying to get them taken down?
People make mistakes. In the grand scheme of mistakes, this is an extremely
trivial one.
~~~
knowtheory
I don't think that the unjustified and unilateral removal of code from someone
else's access or threatening anyone with legal action is _ever_ an acceptable
mistake, let alone "trivial".
The law is not a toy, and it's not supposed to be wielded casually. The DCMA
is certainly not treated with the respect it is supposed to afford citizens,
and this is just another example of that.
~~~
tptacek
We disagree. The mechanism for getting Github to take down code is the DMCA
request; it's what you use when someone at Github is hosting code that they
didn't own that you'd like removed and you feel you have some grounds to have
removed.
It was a mistake for them to use a DMCA request here, because the code was
MIT-licensed and thus even the author can no longer ask for it to be taken
down. But nobody paid legal fees here, nobody was sued, and the code is back
online, so, no, I am not amenable to the idea that Dropbox is being abusive.
Continuing to file DMCA requests would be abusive.
~~~
dhouston
We didn't file a takedown to github -- the author voluntarily took the code
down
~~~
blasdel
Someone complained that their fork on Github had been summarily deleted:
[http://razorfast.com/2011/04/25/dropbox-attempts-to-kill-
ope...](http://razorfast.com/2011/04/25/dropbox-attempts-to-kill-open-source-
project/#comment-145)
~~~
phaylon
Have you read the replies? No context, but insults. Plus the original forked
repo on github is still available. Someone complaining means nothing.
------
arashf
This is Arash from Dropbox. We removed the ability to share the project source
code because it enables communications with our servers in a manner that is a
violation of our Terms of Service. By our TOS, we reserve the right to
terminate the account of users in this case. However, we chose to remove
access to the file instead of terminating the account of the user.
We recently built a tool that allows us to ban links across the sytem (as of a
few weeks ago) and I wasn't aware that a DMCA takedown email would be auto-
generated and sent. This was a tool built for our support team and I'd never
personally used it. That said, we feel strongly that the code is a violation
of our TOS and don't believe the removal of the content from our site is
censorship.
I'd also like to clarify that nobody's accounts were threatened: in every case
my phrasing was as follows: 'I hope you can understand our position and can
agree to remove the Dropship code'.
~~~
tghw
Would you mind highlighting what part of the ToS this sort of thing violates?
~~~
argos
yeah, one thing is to _use_ the code on drop box servers... I could understand
the ToS violation in that case.... but having the code is a violation?
~~~
RBerenguel
This is my point in a comment in the post, before reading the comments here in
HN. Burning books because they have forbidden knowledge.
------
CoffeeDregs
Most interesting comment to that article:
Thankfully all DMCA requests are filed under penalty of
perjury. If he claims that he owns the copyright to
material he doesn’t own, he has now opened himself up
to civil litigation.
Really. Seems so: [http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/Internet-Law-and-
Intellectual-P...](http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/Internet-Law-and-Intellectual-
Property-Articles/Consequences-of-filing-a-false-DMCA-Takedown-Request.shtml)
~~~
rprasad
Not an invalid DMCA request, even assuming one was sent out.
Copyright applies to original _and derivative_ works, though multiple parties
may own copyrights to a derivative work.
In America, derivative works include software programs which are inseparably
reliant on code or features (including APIs) of another program. It's
basically the same argument that WordPress and Drupal make in regard to
themes, plugins, etc., falling under the same open source licenses (i.e.,
copyrights) as the platforms themselves.
In this case, dropship is entirely reliant on unique features of Dropbox. This
makes it a derivative work, and would mean that Dropbox has copy rights over
dropship. The programmer of dropship _also_ has copyrights over dropship to
the extent that the code is an original work, but Dropbox's rights trump his
b/c they own the rights to the original underlying work.
~~~
dctoedt
> _In America, derivative works include software programs which are
> inseparably reliant on code or features (including APIs) of another program.
> ... In this case, dropship is entirely reliant on unique features of
> Dropbox. This makes it a derivative work, and would mean that Dropbox has
> copy rights over dropship._
I don't think that's true; if you've got any case authority, I'd certainly
like to remedy my ignorance of it.
"Derivative work" is defined in the Copyright Act: [1]
_"A 'derivative work' is a work based upon one or more preexisting works,
such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization,
motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment,
condensation, or any other form in which a work may be_ recast, transformed,
or adapted _. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations,
elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original
work of authorship, is a 'derivative work'."_ [Emphasis added]
I don't recall ever having seen any kind of ruling that sending API-compliant
messages to another computer via the Internet, for processing by code already
running on the other computer, somehow constitutes creating a derivative work
of that code.
And I don't see how, in any normal case, the owner of the code on the other
computer could claim that the API message sender had caused an infringing copy
of the code to be made. If I were representing the API message sender, I'd
likely argue that the owner of the code -- by (putatively) licensing the
computer operator to configure the code to listen for and process API messages
-- had consented to whatever copying might have occurred.
[1]
[http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_0...](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000101
----000-.html)
------
thecoffman
I can see why Dropbox would be upset about the existence of such a thing, but
trying to force people to take it down seems incredibly foolish. The whole
issue will garner them negative publicity and people will see it anyways
thanks to the Streisand effect.
I had actually missed the original post, but now thanks to their takedown
attempts I've downloaded a copy for myself as its very interesting.
~~~
cabalamat
> trying to force people to take it down seems incredibly foolish
As does the fake DMCA takedown. If Arash Ferdowsi wants people to think he's
dishonest, he's going the right way about it.
~~~
Goronmon
There was no DMCA takedown notice.
~~~
bigiain
That's not what Dropbox say:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2482803>
(admittedly, several hours after you posted)
~~~
ugh
There was no takedown notice. Those emails (erroneously) informed the
recipient that a third party had sent a takedown request.
------
ramanujan
Dan DeFilippi: "In my unhumble opinion censorship is never an option."
Dan DeFilippi would certainly not like it if all his documents and code from
his personal hard drive were splashed across the internet.
What he considers "censorship", another person would call "not pushing someone
in front of a train". He knows full well that (a) Dropbox is a pretty friendly
company with reasonable people solving a real problem and (b) the RIAA and
MPAA are NOT friendly and NOT reasonable.
This linkbait title ("kill open source project") is the equivalent of police
going after students for bike tickets while avoiding the dangerous parts of
town. Dan DeFilippi is going after the good citizen (Dropbox) for the minor
philosophical crime of not supporting everything that calls itself "open
source", while completely lacking the balls to actually take on the _real_ bad
guys here, namely the RIAA and MPAA's _real_ lawsuits.
Indeed, even if he did set up his own torrent server, they'd ignore him for a
while. Dropbox has financial resources, so they'd actually be the target. So
DeFilippi is getting behind them and trying to push them in a fight that is
certainly NOT one they want to engage in, without taking any personal risk
himself. Not particularly ethical, IMHO.
------
jeremymcanally
And now they see the Streisand Effect in action.
This was an unfortunate reaction by them that will damage their social capital
(a little at least) among one of their core markets. I doubt it'll drive them
into bankruptcy, but it's irritating for me to see this sort of behavior.
------
superuser2
However justified you think piracy is, resisting efforts to turn a product you
created for legitimate personal file sharing into a better BitTorrent is a
valid business decision.
That's a really incendiary headline. Yes, they tried to kill an open source
product, _whose purpose was to facillitate illegal file sharing over DropBox_.
The PR fallout from this among the tech community is probably nowhere near the
fallout it would experience if it became the next Kazaa.
~~~
ceejayoz
> Yes, they tried to kill an open source product, whose purpose was to
> facillitate illegal file sharing over DropBox.
Where are you getting that information? My understanding it that its purpose
was explicitly to facilitate _legal_ file sharing over DropBox - Linux ISOs,
for example.
~~~
sorbus
Linux ISOs are always the example people come up with when they're defending
protocols and methods which are primarily used for illegal purposes.
The original post for DropShip gave, as an example, the trailer for a movie.
Not the movie itself, but the trailer. That's the equivalent of saying "I've
developed this great way to share files, such as videos, but am not going to
explicitly say that it could be used for piracy even though everyone knows
that that's the only thing it will be used for."
~~~
calloc
The trailer is from the free video that was released by the Blender foundation
...
~~~
sorbus
Yeah, I know. I feel that my point still stands, though it is somewhat
weakened.
------
dporan
The journalist A.J. Liebling said, "Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to
those who own one."
I guess the corollary here is, "If you don't own the server, you don't own the
file."
Maybe this is why Richard Stallman calls cloud computing "careless computing."
~~~
billswift
Something Eric Raymond agrees with him about - <http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=932>
Eric also had another post _Three Systemic Problems with Open-Source Hosting
Sites_ a few months later (October 2009) - <http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1282>
------
cmatthias
Wow, did not expect this from a savvy company like Dropbox. Filing a fake DMCA
complaint? I think I'll take my files elsewhere.
~~~
adamhowell
Well that makes one of us who can live without Dropbox.
Drew would have to kill a baby panda with an elephant tusk for me to even
begin thinking about switching.
~~~
amock
Do you need Dropbox or just something like it? Dropbox doesn't seem to have
very strong network effects so it seems like it would be easy to replace with
a similar product. If you're willing to give up features that require hashes
to be shared across accounts you could even have a secure replacement with
client side encryption.
~~~
runjake
Your comment would've been much more helpful had you provided said
alternatives.
~~~
mtogo
Four seconds on duckduckgo:
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_onlin...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_online_backup_services)
~~~
runjake
Thanks for the sarcastic response, but I'm already familiar with that page.
What I'm more interested in is what HN users like and dislike and recommend,
as opposed to a bunch of features charted into a table with nothing valuable
in terms of reliability, usability and actual security.
Lately, I've been leaning towards Jungle Disk for file syncing & some S3
solution for cloud backups.
~~~
amock
I've used SpiderOak and I was happy with it. I only used it to synchronize
files across my laptops and desktops so I don't have any experience with
mobile clients for it. I now use cron, rsync, and ZFS snapshots for versioning
of all of my home directories. Both solutions worked well for me and which
one, if either, is best depends on your situation.
------
Pahalial
You know, I really don't understand the rage around this case, or more
specifically that it's supposedly all coming from people who otherwise love
Dropbox.
So let's examine what you're (potentially) doing by forcing this issue and so
on:
(1) Calling down a streisand effect on Dropbox. Perhaps you believe that code
is meant to be free to such an extent that this is part of your goal, so,
sure.
(2) They clearly have no intention of allowing DropShip to become a common use
case. If your Streisand effect results in wide adoption by people who just
latch onto your censorship angle, they will have to take rushed action to
prevent further spread.
(3) This rushed action could be a technical solution (maybe challenge-
response, as mentioned) or a banhammer once they have narrowed down the use
signature for dropship.
\--
(3a-technical) If it's the technical solution, as it was produced under rapid
duress, is buggy. Suddenly, your beloved dropbox starts corrupting your files,
or refusing to sync some in edge cases. Oops. Some [paying] users who never
even heard about this 'censorship' issue notice this issue and take their
business elsewhere, and of course it's less useful to you too as a tool until
they fix it.
(3a-technical alternative) It's not a buggy fix because they're supercoders.
Still, their team had to put in an ungodly week to make and stress-test the
fix; congratulations on ruining their quality of life for a week while still
losing dropship.
(3b-banhammer) Well, they figure out how to track people using dropship, and
maybe institute a 3 strikes policy (2 emails, 1 ban.) So you stop using
dropship after the first email, with a bit of simmering resentment at dropbox;
still no dropship. Meanwhile, there are false positives because of course
there are; this generates a second, far louder streisand effect, and dropbox
again loses some paying customers.
-
In summary: sure, open-source code is meant to be free. But your actions don't
exist in a vacuum. At the end of the day, Dropbox is clearly not going to
tolerate dropship on its network. Consider whether you would rather keep using
dropbox as it is, or shoehorn yourself into basically open war on dropbox
unless you can dropship on it.
(Tangentially: it was a neat enough hack, but it still doesn't seem any
functionally different than sharing public URLs for the file, with the only
differences being that you circumvent the bandwidth limits - again, congrats
on fighting the TOS of a service you supposedly love.)
~~~
gordonbowman
Well laid out. The worst crime here is taking up the invaluable time of
Dropbox developers who could and should be focused elsewhere.
~~~
bigiain
Or from a slightly different perspective, "strongly encouraging the developers
at Dropbox to focus _now_ on security/privacy issues that ought to have been
dealt with before pushing their existing code live". Doesn't seem to deserve
the label "worst crime" when described like that.
------
shasta
Dropbox has a simple technical recourse to prevent de-duplication from being
used for file sharing - issue a random challenge (a slightly more
sophisticated version of "ok, what is the 100th word in the file?") before
acknowledging a collision as a true duplicate.
Edit: Thinking about this a bit more, the primary expense of this scheme would
probably be accessing the file to verify the challenge results. Here's a
question: is there a cryptographic scheme which would allow responses to some
form of challenge to be verified using a relatively small key (32 or 64 bytes
would be nice), but for which it isn't feasible to rebuild the key given a few
thousand sample challenges?
~~~
kragen
AIM used to ask for a cryptographic checksum of a randomly chosen byte range
of the AIM executable. The Gaim (now Pidgin) developers had to set up a server
that would return checksums on demand. This doesn't meet your requirement of
the verifier needing a small key.
Given that Dropbox apparently has no qualms about perjuring themselves in
order to stop Dropship (or, as discussed in an earlier thread, lying about
their security measures in order to defraud their customers), they could
probably also take retaliatory action beyond just denying service to the user.
Here are some possible retaliatory actions they could take:
* they could publish the user's private files, or simply look through them for the user's credit card numbers.
* they could sell the above data to the highest bidder.
* they could use it to attempt to impersonate the user to their bank in order to empty their bank account.
* they could randomly corrupt the user's data. (This might require a backdoor in the client software.)
* they could wait for an unusual volume of requests from the user (perhaps indicating that the user was trying to restore from backup) before terminating the user's account without warning.
* they could carefully comb through the user's files looking for evidence of any crime (illegal drug use, underage drinking, copyright infringement, possessing seditious literature, importing obscene material, defaming Islam, apostasy, embezzlement, tax evasion, whatever is the biggest no-no in their locale) and anonymously tip off the appropriate authorities.
* they could insert faked evidence of such crimes into the user's files, and then tip off the appropriate authorities.
Perhaps potential Dropbox users ought to be wary. This is a second data point
in the company's history of seriously unethical behavior; one hopes they
wouldn't engage in any tactics like the above in a dispute with a former user,
if their extremely polite requests failed, but my experience is that people
who behave unethically in medium-large ways often behave unethically in larger
ways as well.
_Caveat utilitor_.
~~~
crocowhile
caveat utilitor.
~~~
kragen
Thanks, fixed. My acquaintance with Latin is mostly by way of Spanish, where
it _is_ utilisador (well, in normal speech, usuario.)
------
duck
Tip: If something is on the web and has been linked to via a site like HN,
don't ask them to remove it no matter how bad it hurts you. It will _never_
result in a good thing for you and will definitely hurt more afterwards.
------
arkitaip
What a PR disaster. There is something really wrong at Dropbox if this kind of
dishonest and abusive behavior is coming from a co-founder.
------
phren0logy
The author of the software stated very clearly that he was approached by the
CTO of Dropbox, who asked civilly that the repo be taken down.
This seems an intentional exaggeration of the issue to drive traffic.
>wladimir: Arash (the CTO) asked me to, in a really civil way. So I decided to
respect his wish and take down the repository.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2478688>
~~~
soult
This is not about the Github repository of the original developer. Someone
managed to download a tar archive of the repository from github (after the
repository was removed from github) and uploaded it to his public dropbox
folder.
------
warthurton
I spent a few minutes going over the Dropbox Terms of Service.
The section I believe that they are referring to when they removed the public
link is:
General Prohibitions You agree not to do any of the following while using the
Site, Content, Files or Services:
Post, publish or transmit any text, graphics, or material that: (i) is false
or misleading; (ii) is defamatory; (iii) invades another's privacy; (iv) is
obscene, pornographic, or offensive; (v) promotes bigotry, racism, hatred or
harm against any individual or group; (vi) infringes another's rights,
including any intellectual property rights; or (vii) violates, or encourages
any conduct that would violate, any applicable law or regulation or would give
rise to civil liability;
...
Attempt to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the
software used to provide the Site, Content, Files or Services;
(Excerpted in whole for clarity. Full Terms at:
<https://www.dropbox.com/terms#terms>)
Seemingly not only is posting the code for DropShip a violation, but just by
me putting up this file ( <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1498040/2plus2equals5.txt>
) in my public folder, I'm also violating the Terms, as I am publishing text
that is false and possibly misleading.
------
SoftwareMaven
The DMCA notice came as a result of an automated support system. The CTO's
understanding was the system blocked access to individual files, but the real
purpose is blocking access as part of DMCA requests, so it automatically sends
the DMCA notices out.
This wasn't somebody trying to strong-arm somebody else. It was an
understandable mistake.
~~~
driverdan
I agree with your assessment. It seems that the DMCA notice was a mistake,
there was no real takedown issued to Dropbox.
------
apperoid
Just in case here are a few other mirrors:
<https://github.com/apperoid/dropship>
<http://min.us/mvjl61c>
<http://www.mediafire.com/?6gplpdpib6zg5dm>
[https://rapidshare.com/files/459187624/driverdan-
dropship-56...](https://rapidshare.com/files/459187624/driverdan-
dropship-56b4296.tar.gz)
------
getsat
> and reverted the lockdown on my public files
Is this line terrifying to anyone else? Between this and the published
security problems, I am steering clear of this service.
------
w1ntermute
Here's another mirror, just in case: <http://ompldr.org/vOGY0dg/laanwj-
dropship-464e1c4.tar.gz>
------
arethuza
What a completely unedifying spectacle:
\- Overblown "geek rage" over a non-existent DMCA takedown notice and bizarre
"legal" arguments
\- A company mishandling a security flaw by asking a developer to remove code
that exposes the problem rather than simply fixing the problem and leaving the
code in wild to demonstrate that the flaw doesn't exist anymore
I use DropBox, although I wouldn't say I depend on it. What this episode did
make me appreciate is the degree to which DropBox is a closed product - there
may be good commercial reasons for this but as a consumer I'd rather use a
service that has at least an open and documented interface (even if the
implementations are still proprietary).
------
driverdan
I've seen a lot of comments that misunderstand the DMCA. Many people seem
fixated on this issue. Had I realized this would be the case I wouldn't have
emphasized it as much.
It was an automatic email sent by mistake and was retracted by when
discovered. It's certainly an issue worth mentioning and discussing but don't
fixate on it.
Don't get me wrong, I was completely enraged when I received it but I think
Dropbox has done well in addressing it.
------
mef
Am I the only one who finds it refreshing to see a business trying to protect
itself with a friendly email rather than legal threats? Kudos to the Dropbox
guys for walking that fine line with such finesse.
~~~
wladimir
Yes. I think that's the only thing that's deserved to be said here.
People here should just relax, I'm sure there are many companies that deserve
your rage but Dropbox is not one of them.
They simply asked me to take down the repository while they could work on
blocking Dropship technically on the server side. No threats involved. This
should be very good PR and many companies can learn from this.
Sure, trying to prevent people from writing/distributing programs that use a
service in unexpected ways is pointless in the long run. If something is
technically possible it _will_ be done.
Hence, as some more validation is added, Dropbox will overall be a more secure
service. In my opinion it was a feature instead of an exploit :) but hey, it's
their service.
All the meanness flunged in this thread at either me or Dropbox is completely
uncalled for.
------
ugh
Understandable. Dropbox doesn't want to become a piracy website. Using a DMCA
takedown request was a stupid way of dealing with the issue, though.
~~~
mncolinlee
Why does everyone make the assumption that torrents and services like Dropship
must be used for piracy? Major video game companies use torrents all the time
to distribute patches and betas.
A knife can be used to commit murder, but most often it is simply used to cut
food. The problem with the way DMCA works is that it bars the development of
new technologies because one of many uses _could_ be harmful. The law stifles
innovation when used this way.
~~~
rick888
"A knife can be used to commit murder, but most often it is simply used to cut
food."
Most of the time, a knife is used for cutting food and it can be used for
murder.
Most of the time, torrents are used for piracy and they can be used for
legitimate and legal files.
Search for "torrent" on Google. The majority of the results are search engines
for pirated material (and in many cases, direct links to the torrents).
See the difference?
~~~
TheAmazingIdiot
I would tentatively disagree.
You are indeed correct that most Torrent Sites are mainly piracy distribution
hubs. However, torrent sites are not indicative of torrent traffic by
_Clients_. *
From what I understand, Blizzard uses torrents to spread patches for World of
Warcraft. It is also used, I believe, in Steam as well.
* I would also argue that, although copyright violations, transfers of TV shows are already done via the main distributors' websites. Other than where the source is from, I do not see much a difference.
I would also argue that piracy itself is a response to market failure. When
it's easier to get working media (notably cracked programs and
music/movies/shows) via a 3rd party distribution than from the source, there
is _something_ wrong. Many times, it is because of "We wont sell to that
country until $later", or "Our antipiracy software wont run on your computer",
or it just is infeasible to find it. But essays have been done on this topic
alone.
~~~
ugh
My guess is that Dropbox cares about its image and wants everything piracy
related to be kept at arms length. It’s not their business model. They want to
be a trustworthy service everyone – from nerds to their moms and dads – wants
to use.
I would argue that the prevalence of piracy harms, for example, Rapidshare’s
image as a serious filesharing service. That’s not an issue for Rapidshare
because piracy is their business, but it isn’t the business of Dropbox.
This is consequently not so much about the nature of piracy and much more
about the image of Dropbox.
Whether or not Dropship would actually be a good tool for piracy is very much
an open question (and one you can certainly argue about), Dropbox seems to
think it is.
(I also want to note that even if only one percent of all torrent traffic is
piracy related, it’s still wrong to compare it to knives. There are so many
knives in the world, the fraction of knives which are used to harm people must
be infinitesimal. And, to clarify something else: I would be vigorously
against any legislative attempts at banning torrents. Legislatively, that’s
just not the right way to go. But that’s the law and Dropbox is no
government.)
------
neworbit
As much as I'd like to see companies busted for abusing the DMCA to take down
things they object to, I would rather it had been one of the traditional Big
Media Thugs who was on the wrong end of a lawsuit for fraudulent DMCA claims
rather than Dropbox... who I otherwise like.
------
mrud
Isn't the so called DMCA take down notice in this example not just a
notification for the user that Dropbox received such a take down notice and
not a DMCA takedown notice?
~~~
spudlyo
Shhh. You're spoiling everyone's fun. How can you expect me to get all worked
up about a notice about a non-existent notice?
------
jayp
This behavior is unconscionable when there is such an obviously trivial
technical solution to this problem.
Here is my quick and dirty technical solution.
(1) Place a restriction: only allow users who have uploaded a given file to
download that file. In essence, keep an "uploaded" flag for each file/user.
(2) Challenge-response to validate local copy of a globally-known file: To
continue receiving the benefits of de-dup, don't actually upload an already
globally-known file, but perform a challenge-response with the client on the
contents of the actual file. This will still leverage most of the benefits of
de-dup w.r.t bandwidth savings.
~~~
marshray
I gues they're already at a point in their business where they feel like it's
easier for them to try to silence their fanbase-hackers-modders-addon
developers instead of just quietly fixing the issue.
At least Twitter had the sense to phase-in client auth for apps before
shutting down 3rd party developers.
------
cnicolaou
The title of the post +HN post should be changed after the author updated his
entry and clarified Dropbox' position.
------
plasma
Dropbox can decide what its servers/resources are used for, and allowing
'Dropship' to be used to transfer copyrighted files sounds like a problem they
don't want - and neither would I, as a company owner.
Legitimate users are not impacted at all from this recent change; people who
were wanting to share copyrighted files to the masses are impacted but they
aren't customers Dropbox would want in the first place.
I think its disingenuous to say Dropbox shouldn't have tried to stop the
project from being used; if I ran Dropbox and something came up that
threatened my company and its customers I would try and stop it being used in
an instant.
The people Dropbox contacted voluntarily took down the project, so they must
have agreed with Dropbox's logic in some form that yes perhaps the project
would better off not be available.
I'm not sure I like the title, "... attempts to kill open source project" as
if to say open source is some how an endangered species and Dropbox is some
horrible elephant killer? :)
I suppose its disappointing to me when I read some comments that are
immediately on the attack when it may not be warranted or fair, or put up
arguments like 'torrents can be used to distribute linux ISOs' (not a real
quote!) when everyone knows thats not what Dropship would be used for at all.
------
JCB_K
_Second, dealing with piracy is the responsibility of Dropbox. It’s not the
problem of an innocent hacker who wrote some useful code that could benefit
legitimate users and advocates the use of his software for “sharing photos,
videos, public datasets, git-like source control, or even as building block
for wiki-like distributed databases."_
Could someone give me 1 example of a use case here? The only reason I can
think of to share the hash of a file instead of a direct link, is because it's
an illegal file, and you don't want to link straight to it. Why else would you
go through the effort of hashing all 4mb blocks of the file, and sharing those
elsewhere?
Of course, this is a dangerous gray legal area, but I think it's fair to say
that the only reason to use this is because of illegal files. Also, they
didn't take legal action (which wouldn't be right, as no one has been proven
of doing illegal stuff), they just asked nicely, so it seems. Dropbox is right
to act on this, as it could potentially ruin their platform.
~~~
JCB_K
Could someone elaborate on why I was downvoted here?
~~~
St-Clock
I don't know because I thought your comment was insightful. But since this is
one of the worst threads I have read since I joined HN, in terms of FUD and
signal-to-noise ratio, it is not impossible that someone who misunderstood the
situation downvoted you.
The fact that comments like "Man you guys are dumb."
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2482925>) wasn't voted down is
indicative of the health of this thread.
------
staunch
Is there anything Dropbox can do to prevent this de-dupe hack?
~~~
judofyr
Sure: When the client has created a hashsum of the file and sent it to the
server, the server can respond with a challenge: "What's the SHA1 of the bytes
between X and Y" (where X and Y are random numbers). This is something both
parts can easily compute and the client _must_ have the whole file in order to
answer the challenge.
------
p09p09p09
OTOH, wouldn't it be neat if a distributed Tahoe-LAFS supported dropship-like
functionality as a feature?
------
mborromeo
If you spend so much time, passion and money building a product like Dropbox
you will try to defend it from every kind of threat: today the "piracy" topic
is a hot one, sounds like its worse than killing someone, and Dropbox is hit
by this "piracy" threat. I fully understand and respect Dropbox founders
positions, and the DMCA issue is clearly a bug in my opinion (i wouldn't
automatically send those kind of communications upon a system-forced file
deletion, however).
------
rryan
Anyone saying that Dropship has legal uses is wrong -- you're stealing from
Dropbox by using it whether you're sharing your academic, public-domain
dataset or your pirated movie.
Dropship sidesteps the TOS of Dropbox by letting users get unlimited sharing
bandwidth. Dropbox itself has a share feature which uses the exact technical
mechanism by which Dropship works, except it also puts rate limits and caps on
sharing.
OT: This is probably the worst comments thread I've ever read on HN. It's like
an echo-chamber telephone game. Jeez.
------
sha90
Forked so that I can hopefully get one of those cool friendly emails!
------
shad0wfax
Strike 2, dropbox
~~~
wewyor
What was strike 1?
I can understand them not wanting the files to be public, but as tptacek said
this is probably fluffed up quite a bit.
As far as I'm concerned the only issue with how they handled it is the DMCA
takedown request, and if the CTO acted as said but that is less of a factor.
If the files were never removed from the persons dropbox and only public urls
disabled I'm okay with that. However if the files were removed I would
probably count that as all three strikes and jump ship.
~~~
kragen
Strike 1 was when they got caught lying about whether their employees could
decrypt your files or not.
~~~
wewyor
I suppose so, I always took that statement to be that employees didn't have
easy access to your files (such as without decrypting from the servers).
It should have been obvious to anyone else remotely familiar with security
that dropbox had/has access to your files from the simple fact that you could
reset your password, as well as the web interface.
~~~
shad0wfax
wewyar, like kragen & iamjustlooking pointed out I considered that whole
episode as strike1. I agree I am being extremely critical and have to agree in
spirit that this is their real goof up. Poor security is not a reason to
abandon the ship if they show an intent to fix it ASAP. What I felt a bit let
down by this whole take down thing was, their initial approach was to surpress
the hackers rather than fix their problem. I see in another post they seem to
addressed it the loophole (?), which is the way to go. Embrace ppl tinkering
this way but make your platform robust.
------
forkrulassail
Just lost all my respect for them.
------
leon_
Way to alienate customers, Dropbox. I gonna cancel our teams account and
refrain from using dropbox alltogether.
------
donpark
Forget about DMCA and other excuses. Dropship-like hacks could have huge
negative impact on Dropbox business model. I can't fault them for taking
actions to protect their business.
------
Dubois
It's a shame that Dropbox has resorted to attacking its users and threatening
them with loss of data. Looks like it's time to clone Dropbox and offer some
respectable service to users.
~~~
injekt
I can't see that they've done any of this. They've been pretty polite about
the whole thing. At least that's what the article says. The fact they mention
that their terms give them the right to deny users access to their service at
any time doesn't mean they're threatening. It's just a reminder.
They're said the DMCA was a mistake and they hold their hands up to that.
Aside from that, I can't see how they've done anything wrong. OK so asking the
author to remove it from 3rd party sites is a bit cheeky, but that's all they
did.. ask. I would have asked too, the author didn't have to. He clearly
didn't want any trouble.
Imo Dropbox should have just fixed then, and sat there and laughed when people
tried to use Dropship and it not work. It would have saved 'Dropbox attempts
to kill open source project' and may have even caused for 'Dropbox fixes file
hashing issue x days after open source project built to exploit it'. That way,
both win. But that's just my 2 cents
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Writing Streak – write fiction every day - rayalez
http://writingstreak.io/
======
allanderek
This looks great. There are a couple of minor bugs that I've come across so
far.
1. Occasionally at the 'Prompts' screen, pressing the reload icon causes a blank prompt, which means there is no reload icon. Hence the user has to refresh the entire page.
2. In the "prompt" screen the place which I think is for some title text from the user does not show what is typed. The user can see the cursor moving, but no text, they can select the text but it is not highlighted. You can select copy & paste the text elsewhere. Suggesting that the text colour is just the same as the background colour.
Other than that, you have small logos in the top right, but the logos are far
from clear what they actually do. Home, Settings and (probably) logout are
clear, but the other two are not so clear.
------
rayalez
Hey, everyone!! I am working on a website that will help people to write
regularly and develop a daily writing habit.
It keeps track of daily word count, gives you writing prompts, has github-like
contributions graph, and all sorts of cool features to help you focus on
writing. I think it's gonna be pretty great.
It's in the early stage at this point, and I would really love some feedback.
Does the idea make sense, do you think it's useful? What features would you
like in that kind of tool?
------
knight17
This looks good. Especially the gaming mode (sprint). That should result in
output from reluctant people/perfectionis.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wolfenstein 3D in HTML5 - rangibaby
http://wolfenstein.bethsoft.com
======
rangibaby
Some obvservations:
• This appears to be a straight port from the original C source[1] to JS (it's
in plaintext, so you can have a look.)
• As such, it's look and feel is more faithful to the original than the native
iOS port, which is partly based on a GPL port[2], has high(er) resolution
graphics from yet another port and is missing some things from the PC version
(tally screen, the "Yeah!" scene when you escape from the castle.)
[1] <http://www.btinternet.com/~belowe/> [2]
[http://www.idsoftware.com/iphone-
games/wolfenstein-3d-classi...](http://www.idsoftware.com/iphone-
games/wolfenstein-3d-classic-platinum/wolfdevelopment.htm)
IMHO the second link is an excellent read in itself.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
U.S. Cattle Herd Falls to 1958 Low as Losses Climb - cwan
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-27/u-s-cattle-herd-falls-to-1958-low-as-losses-climb-survey-says.html
======
frankus
Did anyone notice the little haiku (almost) at the end:
Beef Cows Dairy Cows
All Cattle Cows That That Have That Have
& Calves Have Calved Calved Calved
------
johnl
glad to see the economics of supply,demand,and price working somewhere.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Kindness is Underrated - venantius
http://blog.circleci.com/kindness-is-underrated/
======
overgard
People always paint this on a "deceptive & kind" vs "honest & mean" axis, but
I don't think those attributes have to be tied together. You can be direct
without losing kindness. Saying "I don't think this is the right approach,
don't go down this path anymore" is direct, but it's not mean. Not to sound
like a fanboy, but since most people here are familiar with his writings, I
think PG's essays are a good example of this. He'll say direct things that
probably piss some people off, but it doesn't ever seem to come from anger.
Saying "are you fucking insane? Only an idiot would come up with this", like
Linus would, is also direct.. but, not particularly necessary in my opinion.
------
wadetandy
A separate but related issue I've sometimes run into in team interactions like
those described (particularly in github issue discussions and other
asynchronous text communications) is people mistaking kindness or inquiry for
passive aggressive demands or mandate.
Something like "is there a reason you chose to do it that way instead of this
other way that we have done things in the past?" might be interpreted as "This
is wrong. Why didn't you do it the way I did it the last time I did something
similar to this!? Please throw out what you've done and re-implement it my
way."
This might have something to do with the assumption that the OP mentions: that
everyone is aggressive and blunt by default, and this is just a passive
aggressive form of the same. If this wasn't the norm, perhaps this subtlety
wouldn't go unnoticed.
------
jmzbond
All I can think about while reading this is that it's so ironic that Bezos was
making this speech, given the press on some of its abhorrent working
conditions. [1][2]
[1] About working in warehouses. Stories persist from 2012 to just last year
and Bezos was always around. Paints a picture of draconian working
environments meant to save every last penny for the end customer.
[http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-
mcclelland-f...](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-
free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor?page=1)
[http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/jean-baptiste-malet-amazon-
wa...](http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/jean-baptiste-malet-amazon-warehouse)
[http://gizmodo.com/5982811/life-in-an-amazon-warehouse-
fear-...](http://gizmodo.com/5982811/life-in-an-amazon-warehouse-fear-and-
efficiency-at-35-orders-per-second)
[2] Can't find link, but just last week on HN there was something about
working at Amazon corporate. Here is another link. Same sense of austereness
and frugality (albeit of course perks shouldn't be expected), but there are
also fundamental aspects of employees just not having a voice that really goes
against choosing kindness in my mind.
[http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/technology/articles/AMZN-...](http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/technology/articles/AMZN-
AAPL-WMT-GOOG-MSFT-Amazon/10/10/2013/id/52177)
~~~
pjwal
It's difficult to give any credence to those obvious agenda bent articles rife
with unsubstantiated claims.
The first author makes a stink of the fact (and mentions no less than three
times) that one is fired if they are late the first week no matter the
circumstance. Oh, the travesty. But then she even details the performance
point system they use in which one is marked down 1.5 points for not SHOWING
UP to work. And it requires 6 to fire you. You can actually just not show up 3
days to work and not get fired. Incredible. I mean really, she paraphrases a
conversation she just happen to have with a woman in her late 50s about the
tragedy of having to be at work at 5am the first day.
The second author's statements are full of innuendos such as "if someone talks
during work hours, the rest are expected to shun them." No claim that this is
written policy of course of which he could not back up. No, the only
explanation being, "it's a subtle thing because they ask you to "report
possible anomalies to your superiors."
The horrors of capitalism. Guess what? Working at a warehouse sucks, but after
fully reading both the above articles it actually doesn't seem as bad as I
thought.
------
carsongross
One of the core problems I struggle with in human relations is, effectively,
the prisoners dilemma of kindness: we are all better off if we are kind to one
another. However, a "better" (and I recognize that is a fraught word) state,
for me, would be you being kind to me, but me not being kind to you,
especially when the stakes are high.
This leads to a situation where the sociopaths thrive by convincing the
clueless that "we all must be kind" while, themselves, adopting Machiavellian
ruthlessness, including publicly shaming the people who point out their
hypocrisy: "How can you be against kindness! Shun the outsider!"
My working theory is that in small enough groups where, and this is key, the
groups are largely self-autonomous/autarchic, the game can remain stable in
the "all kind" state. From personal experience, I have seen that simply having
small groups, but arranged in a power hierarchy, allows the sociopathic
element to win the game by appeals to the remote, functionally indifferent
master.
Can a company (or, indeed, a country) be organized this way? Can it prevent
the Gervais Principle ([http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
principle-o...](http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-
the-office-according-to-the-office/)) from winning out?
Dunno. Gonna try to find out.
------
pjwal
Great company culture post. This is very much something I have long struggled
with. I find the challenges of the fast growing company environment analogous
to the communication struggles people experience online. People just don't
have time to build relationships with everyone and form that trust.
I had a recent situation in which we were in a focus group and I followed the
CEOs explanation of our plans for a particular feature with, "To clarify, we
are going to be..." Little did I know the words "to clarify" irked and upset
him as he felt undermined. I should have used the words, "To build on Jerry's
point..." Needless to say, in several meetings after that he displayed
aggression toward me, which then upset me and it was weeks before we sat down
and cleared the air.
There is much subtlety in communication and interpretation that it can be
maddening. One simple word or phrase can trigger extended bouts of
unpleasantness and inefficiency. I do believe there is responsibility on both
sides: In this world of ever quickening communication, one should choose their
words carefully and one should not be so sensitive and take things too
personally. It's my personal opinion that we have too much of a problem with
the latter than the former, but then again, I'm usually the one on the other
side of that situation.
------
rokob
You can attack an idea without attacking a person. As long as people realize
they are distinct from the code they write, you can be direct and brutal about
code, without devolving into ad hominem. The problem is fostering a culture
where people don't feel as if they are socially defined solely by the code
they write.
------
frank_horrigan
Humility is often quite difficult to maintain when you're working with
something as esoteric as code. It just feels _good_ to know that you
understand something complex. And, often with negative results, it's easy to
get a rich warm feeling of pride when you see someone else make a mistake that
you'd have avoided because of your deeper understanding of a system or
language.
And let's face it, we all like to get together and laugh heartily at bad code.
It can be pretty fun.
That's why I'm consistently impressed by engineers who provide feedback free
of pride. I've been lucky enough to learn from people like this and even
luckier to work for them.
------
sergiosgc
Tl;dr: On the Internet, if you are subtle (and kind) with your criticism,
people don't listen. The dominant style is then to be harsh and aggressive. At
Circle CI we hear subtlety, so there's no need to be rude. Being nice is
better than rude.
OK. To each his own. Use the style of the community you're in. The fact is
that I don't take technical criticism as personal, so I really don't mind
getting called out on my faults directly. It's like peeling off a band aid.
Better do it fast and painfully than slow and painfully.
~~~
pbiggar
The problem is when one applies that to other people, it doesn't work. They
don't enjoy getting treated like that, get chased off and don't come back.
------
badman_ting
Not for nothing but it's easier to be kind to your coworkers when they're not
fucking up their work. Or even worse, yours. Of course in those times you have
bigger problems than kindness. Or perhaps better put, empathy and kindness
have many dimensions. Having a smile on your face while you make a mess for
your coworker isn't actually kind.
~~~
pbiggar
Another thing to consider is the best way to help your coworkers not fuck up.
Is being a dick and calling them an idiot going to help more than empathically
working with them to fix the problems? If it were me, I'd be looking for the
door rather than working with someone who yells at me.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why all new tech startups have stupid names - earlyadapter
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/innovation/why-all-new-tech-startups-have-stupid-names/
======
earlyadapter
I find this issue to be crazy yet creatively stimulating at the same time... I
have spent tons of hours trying to find alternative spellings of my startups
in order to find available URLs. I just sit on the GoDaddy app searching. One
thing I noticed is it seems that GoDaddy engages in squatting and reselling as
"Premium" URLs...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money - mbgaxyz
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-05-03/recycling-eyeglasses-is-a-feel-good-waste-of-money
======
Animats
There are several competing efforts to produce low-cost eyeglasses. Focus On
Vision has adjustable eyeglasses.[1] Project Congo has some kind of eyeglass-
making kit.[2] Briefcase-sized eyeglass kits used to be popular in India. They
contained round frames and several hundred round lenses. The idea is that
glasses have three parameters - spherical curvature, elliptical curvature, and
axis of the ellipse. The usual options for the first two are only about
100-200 lenses. With a round lens, you can set the axis in any direction.
There's a little notching tool in the kit, and once you have the axis set, the
plastic lens is notched, then snapped into the frame, where it locks.
Not that they really cost much. The manufacturing cost of eyeglasses is about
$2. The insane price of frames comes from a monopoly by Luxottica, which owns
most of the retail outlets in malls in the US.
[1] [http://www.focus-on-vision.org/](http://www.focus-on-vision.org/) [2]
[http://projectcongo.org/photocollections/eyeglassmaking.html](http://projectcongo.org/photocollections/eyeglassmaking.html)
~~~
dkksfj
>The insane price of frames comes from a monopoly by Luxottica, which owns
most of the retail outlets in malls in the US.
How is owning most of the retail outlets in malls a monopoly?
~~~
threatofrain
Luxottica owns many things, but the most important thing any company can own
are distribution channels. Then you can just refuse to sell your competitor's
goods.
~~~
Animats
That's how they took over Oakley. They cut off their distribution channels.
Luxottica took over Sunglass Hut and pushed out Oakley. Oakley had to sell out
to Luxottica. Then the prices for Oakley went way up.
Luxottica did something similar with Ray-Ban. Their products used to sell for
around $19 in gas stations. After the Luxottica takeover, they became a
"luxury" brand, with prices from $129 to $300.
------
jlg23
Questions unfortunately not answered by the article:
a) Who profits from this recycling program? How many people get a western
salary to coordinate all this?
b) Following from (a), how many optometrists and lens makers could make a
living in Cambodia if people just put $1 in a collection box each time they'd
dump their used glasses in a box?
This suspiciously sounds like the "2nd hand clothes for Africa" scam that only
profits the collectors of those in western countries and destroys local
tailors' businesses in the target market.
~~~
WalterBright
> scam
I'm glad someone makes money off of my old clothes rather than they go in the
trash.
> destroys local tailors' businesses
That's a variation on the broken window fallacy.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)
~~~
jlg23
> I'm glad someone makes money off of my old clothes rather than they go in
> the trash.
I don't have a problem with that per se, only that it happens under the
pretense of charity and that the model exploits economic inequality in a
globalized world on the expense of those the "charity" claims to help.
> That's a variation on the broken window fallacy.
I fail to see the connection because the broken window fallacy is about a
coherent economic system, not about a global economy where one can make a
profit by exploiting inequalities. The proverb says: Give a man a fish and you
feed him for the day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Following that idea, I am much more for transfer of knowledge than for
transfer of goods. And in extension also for sourcing urgently required
products locally (and if required donating to build the required industry)
than just sending products.
One does not have to see that in any ideological way: Just publish all
numbers, show me that it's more cost-effective to send assembled products to a
place and I won't object. But the article just showed that we again failed to
run the numbers, thereby _wasting_ money and potentially harming the local
economy in the target country.
~~~
WalterBright
By sheltering tailors, everyone else in the economy pays a higher price and is
thereby worse off. It's a net loss. Might as well go around smashing windows
so the local glaziers can make money.
------
danieltillett
This goes for most (almost all) recycling programs.
Recycling programs are a worse than a waste of money since you are using up
some of people’s limited support for environmental causes. This would not
matter if we did not have some really huge, long term problems that we need to
deal with that we are not doing enough about.
~~~
sliverstorm
What would you mark as the worthwhile ones?
Personally I place high value on raw material recycling. Even if it's more
expensive monetarily, so long as it uses less resources it seems worth it to
me.
_Aluminum cans are currently recycled more than any other beverage container
in the U.S, which is good for business and the environment, says the Aluminum
Association, because making a can from recycled aluminum saves not only
aluminum but 92 percent of the energy required to make a new can_
~~~
douche
Aluminum (and steel) is one of the very few things that is in any way
worthwhile to recycle. Most of the things that we are urged to recycle (glass,
plastics, paper, cardboard, etc) are cheaper and easier to make new from the
abundant raw materials.
~~~
ams6110
Corrugated cardboard is a net benefit to recycle, I've heard. Otherwise you
are correct. It's just feel-good. Most of what you drop off at recycling
centers is just trucked to landfills after it's out of your sight.
~~~
titzer
> Most of what you drop off at recycling centers is just trucked to landfills
> after it's out of your sight.
This is definitely not true in Germany. And for glass bottle recycling, most
bottles are washed and reused up to 50 times before being melted down.
------
WalterBright
> The price of the physical glasses is minor -- only $1.88 for a new pair of
> ready-made spectacles.
Sigh. Why is it I can't get a pair of prescription glasses for under $500?
~~~
brianwawok
Monopolies. Why don't we have an eyeglass startup?
~~~
jonlucc
I think that's Warby Parker. They're few years in now, but their low-cost
acetate frames are pretty much the norm.
------
Spooky23
I think these programs are a legacy of a past era where the costs of
manufacturing glasses was relatively high.
But the suggestion that cheap glasses should be just put in racks is
simplistic. Getting people sort of okay glasses isn't acceptable. My vision is
asymmetrical, and using the same power lenses would leave me with a
debilitating headache.
There should be a few standard cheap lens patterns so you can mix and match.
------
13of40
I think I read somewhere that it used to be standard practice to go to the eye
doctor (or glasses-monger?) and just try on pairs until you found one that
worked, rather than getting a laser-precise eye exam. At the time I thought it
was a terrible, backwards idea, but it makes sense in this context. Getting an
affordable, almost-fit pair of glasses is probably a lot better than no
glasses at all.
~~~
Rinum
That's pretty much what I did. I bought a super cheap pair (0.5 SPH) at $5,
split the lenses and placed them over each other until what I saw at a
distance was clear enough to read. I added up the SPH (they were 0.5 lenses, I
ended up overlaying 4 pieces - so 2.0 total) and bought the resulting glasses.
That was about 2 or 3 years ago and those glasses are still perfect for me.
~~~
13of40
I could probably do the same, but I'm blessed with one eye that's twice as
myopic as the other, so I'd have do some lens swapping.
------
acoravos
This study is old, but glad it's getting published on major media sources.
The cost of distributing the glasses and reaching rural locations is often
more challenging than the cost of the glasses itself. One of the leading
companies distributing low-cost eye glasses is VisionSpring
(www.visionspring.org), and they are also main partner for Warby Parker
([https://www.warbyparker.com/buy-a-pair-give-a-
pair](https://www.warbyparker.com/buy-a-pair-give-a-pair)).
VS is making radically affordable quality glasses ubiquitous in frontier and
emerging markets. Their customers earn less than $4 per day and are highly
price sensitive. They sell to seed markets, are accountable for delivering on
a value proposition, and gain consumer commitment for a product customers will
need for the rest of their lifetime.
~~~
throwaway6436
You could have warned of an incoming message from our sponsors.
------
Lagged2Death
Either way it's done, providing glasses to people who can't pay for them is a
charitable act, and humans are not very rational about charitable acts.
Given two choices:
1) Give $5 to a program that provides brand new custom prescribed eyeglasses
to people who need them but cannot buy them
2) Give $10 to a program that provides shitty, old, out-of-date, recycled
eyeglasses of questionable prescription to people who need them but cannot buy
them
Many people will respond more supportively to #2 and see #1 as fundamentally
unfair ("I worked hard to earn the money for _my_ glasses, why should a needy
person have something just as good as mine? They should count themselves lucky
to have anything at all!"). Many people see it as a moral imperative that the
poor should suffer.
------
dahart
This argument seems really weird to me. It's a "waste" compared to what? If
the alternative is glasses going in the garbage or plastic recycling to
recover nothing more than raw materials, then 7% of donations surviving the
donation process seems like a massive win.
~~~
wtbob
That doesn't make sense: spending $24 to retrieve 75¢ of materials is a
massive _loss_ , not a win.
Throwing stuff away isn't a problem (the world's huge; besides, today's
landfills will be a future generation's mines); throwing recyclable stuff away
isn't a problem (why, every day you excrete water which you could distil &
drink — at a ridiculous cost); throwing away stuff which could be recycled or
reused profitably _is_ a problem.
------
holri
But not a waste of resources and CO2.
------
throwaway_exer
I read the complete article, and I'm kind of skeptical of the conclusions.
Having travelled in Asia, for example, they have the skill and parts to repair
eyeglasses and cut lenses to old frames. (In fact, I get my glasses repaired
in Manila since the eyeglass cartel in the USA refuses to do major repairs.
I've certainly tried in Silicon Valley multiple times.)
Also, eyeglass cases are considered to be valuable and resold for $1 - $5
each.
And finally, somebody with a suitcase could haul 100 - 200 frames on their
next trip at no cost.
I think if they were willing to do minor repairs and record the measurements
in a database, donations could be a much more efficient charity.
~~~
wvenable
At a $1.88 to make a pair of glasses, I fail to see how your economics works.
Minor repairs, databases, etc all cost more than that for a potentially
inferior product.
------
MichaelBurge
I would've expected people to throw their glasses into a recycling bin, where
it's melted down and made into beer bottles.
------
redthrow
Recycling is Garbage (1996)
[http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/magazine/recycling-is-
garb...](http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/magazine/recycling-is-garbage.html)
~~~
dahart
Wow, hard to believe this was actually linked to. That opinion article article
was thoroughly debunked two decades ago, yet somehow it's still doing damage.
Debunking the Myths of the “Anti-Recyclers”
[http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/174_Sep96.pdf](http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/174_Sep96.pdf)
Recycling is not garbage - MIT technology review 1997
[https://www.technologyreview.com/s/400100/recycling-is-
not-g...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/400100/recycling-is-not-garbage/)
~~~
redthrow
Think Globally, Act Irrationally: Recycling
[http://econlib.org/library/Columns/y2007/Mungerrecycling.htm...](http://econlib.org/library/Columns/y2007/Mungerrecycling.html)
[http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/07/munger_on_recyc.htm...](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/07/munger_on_recyc.html)
~~~
dahart
Munger makes the same mistake that Tierney does by focusing on something
that's easy to attack, and sounds good on the face, but is in fact nearly
irrelevant to the discussion.
Tierney's argument that it takes energy to recycle is completely moot; the
point isn't energy at all, the point is to recover materials & to slow
production and consumption of wasteful single use containers. Combine that
with our ability to use abundant and unending solar power, and you can see
that Tierney's assumption that energy is part of the economy of recycling is a
straw man and doesn't stand up to reason or reality.
Munger's entire argument is that recycling is expensive, there's a cost to
recycling. Like Tierney, this is a misdirection. Cost is not the point of
recycling. He's right, there's a cost, but he doesn't compare it to anything.
What's the alternative to recycling, and how much does that cost? There's a
cost to landfills too -- how much does it cost to throw away? Munger ignores
the long term costs of not recycling. Running out of resources is going to be
a lot more expensive than recycling. The byproducts of plastic production are
toxic, and historically there have been some plastic factories that made
workers fatally sick. Munger didn't try to factor in the health care costs of
people who work in or live near factories. He hasn't attempted to consider the
heavy cost of pollution. He doesn't calculate the costs of transporting
garbage. He hasn't attempted to calculate the environmental costs of not
recycling at all -- and this is the entire point of recycling, the entire
basis upon which the economics of recycling is evaluated. The recycling
movement is not even remotely concerned about the transaction price of
recycling a bottle, it's concerned with slowing our frivolous and wasteful use
of this planet's finite and valuable resources on one time deliveries of 12
ounces of Coke.
There's a lot of information on the many large costs of not recycling that
Munger is deliberately ignoring, here's just one:
[http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/dangers-
of-p...](http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/dangers-of-plastic)
Thinking about cost alone is a persuasion strategy, it's a way to manipulate
the argument and the audience, it's a way to put something seemingly tactile
on the perceived downsides of recycling. It's a way to convince you that
you're being cheated out of money -- but he's the one trying to trick you --
don't let it work on you so easily!
If nothing else, if I haven't convinced you at all, at least Google all the
articles you can on the critiques of Teirney and Munger, read them all and try
to rebut them yourself.
~~~
redthrow
> the point is to recover materials & to slow production and consumption of
> wasteful single use containers
You are simply assuming throwing single use containers in landfill is more
wasteful than recycling.
> our ability to use abundant and unending solar power
Yeah, that's why electricity is free, right? Also by this logic you can
equally argue that recycling is pointless because in the future we can use
robots (which run on free energy 24/7) to go through landfills to recover
useful resources.
> Munger's entire argument is that recycling is expensive, there's a cost to
> recycling
Way to simplify the opponent's position. Munger says recycling things like
aluminium would probably make sense.
He's accusing recycling proponents of not calculating the long term cost of
recycling (which you demonstrated), which in many cases would be higher than
simply throwing garbage away in landfill.
_Munger argues that recycling can save resources, of course, but it can also
require more resources than production from scratch. Some curbside recycling,
for example, makes sense, while other forms (such as green glass) may be akin
to a form of religious expression rather than a wise policy that is
environmentally productive._
Why I'm Not an Environmentalist
[http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPol/EnviroPhil...](http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPol/EnviroPhilo/WhyNotEnviro.pdf)
~~~
dahart
Whew, that essay is its very own brand of crazy. It seems both freightened and
mean spirited through and through. I feel really bad for you if recycling and
environmentalism scares you as much as it appears to scare Steven Landsburg.
I know why are you _are_ an environmentalist: because you breathe air and
drink water, just like I do. I'd guess you are just as interested in those
things being non-toxic as I am. I'd guess you're just as interested in your
grandchildren and humanity finding abundant clean air and water in the future
as I am. I could be wrong about these things since I don't know you, but I'd
still be willing to bet money that you enjoy being outdoors sometimes.
> Yeah, that's why electricity is free, right? Also by this logic
What a nice straw man you have there. You're trying to change the subject,
just like Tierney and Munger did. I was talking about energy, not about cost.
I claim energy is abundant, not free. Tierney argued against recycling by
claiming that recycling uses more energy than new production. Tierney is
pretending to miss the point of recycling completely. He's fully aware that
debating the relative energy consumption of recycling vs new products has
nothing to do with why people recycle, and he's fully aware that even if
recycling uses lots of energy, even if recycling wastes tons of energy, there
are still compelling reasons to recycle.
Petroleum is limited, while neither energy nor money are limited. Arguing over
the percentages of waste of energy & cost is arguing over margins of the two
things that won't run out. The earth and it's oil, on the other hand, are
finite, and we're starting to see their limits. You can choose to ignore that,
if you want, and continue to argue over the margins of the unlimited
resources.
Just curious, but why are you using the weak political opines and outright
rants of non-expert journalists who have agendas to argue economic and
scientific issues, when there are actual economists and scientists who are
writing about these things? I'm sure there are real scientists who have good
arguments against recycling, if what you really want is to oppose recycling.
~~~
redthrow
> that essay is its very own brand of crazy. It seems both freightened and
> mean spirited through and through.
You don't seem to have any rebuttal to the actual content of the essay. As a
professional economist Landsburg is very open to different preferences people
have. He's only asking for the same kind of open-mindedness in return by
environmentalists (e.g. not calling anyone who doesn't agree with their dogma
"crazy" and respecting those who don't participate in their quasi-religious
rituals).
> I know why are you are an environmentalist: because you breathe air and
> drink water, just like I do. I'd guess you are just as interested in those
> things being non-toxic as I am. [...]
This doesn't make me a kind of naive environmentalists as described in
Landsburg's essay.
> [...] even if recycling wastes tons of energy, there are still compelling
> reasons to recycle.
So far you cited none that's compelling. The issue of pollution from landfill
sites is a concern but you don't talk about (a) how big the impact is
(probably different in different landfill facilities) and (b) why people's
effort to recycle can be an effective solution (my hunch is it's not very
effective). Also we are far from running out of fossil fuels anytime soon so
that's not a compelling reason either.
I understand that you personally prefer recycling though (for
religious/aesthetic reasons). I respect your choice.
> why are you using the weak political opines and outright rants of non-expert
> journalists who have agendas to argue economic and scientific issues [...]
I cited Steven Landsburg, Mike Munger, and Russ Roberts who are all
professional economists. Your 2 links (one from an environmental advocacy
group) are virtually identical in their content written by the same 2 authors
and only one of them is an "economic analyst" who doesn't seem to have
published any academic paper in the field of economics (he's still entitled to
his view but I don't think he made a good case for recycling in the article).
~~~
dahart
> You don't seem to have any rebuttal to the actual content of the essay.
What would you like to argue about? There's nothing for me to rebut. Steven's
experience is his own, he's free to interpret the world however he wants. If
he's scared of environmentalism and wants to rant about it, that's his choice.
He forfeits any reasonable discussion automatically by comparing a general
desire to have clean air and water with religious fundamentalism. It's an ad
hominem that doesn't deserve any response.
> This doesn't make me a kind of naive environmentalists as described in
> Landsburg's essay.
Sounds like we're getting somewhere now. Let's talk about the good
environmentalists like you, not the naive ones. What makes you a better
environmentalist than the kind Landsburg talks about? What is your improved
plan for keeping the air and water clean and available forever, without
needing to recycle? Will your plan be cost and energy effective?
I didn't see Landsburg drawing a line between naive environmentalists and
other kinds, did I miss something? He seemed to draw a blanket conclusion that
all environmentalism is nothing more than faith. I know you don't agree with
that.
> I understand that you personally prefer recycling though (for
> religious/aesthetic reasons). I respect your choice.
I haven't stated a preference for recycling, nor given any religious or
aesthetic reasons for said preference, so I'm not convinced you understand.
Calling it religious is pretty disrespectful, which you already know. But you
don't know me, nor my preferences on recycling, so all I can do is return the
favor and say I respect your choices too.
~~~
redthrow
> He forfeits any reasonable discussion automatically by comparing a general
> desire to have clean air and water with religious fundamentalism
This doesn't seem like a fair characterisation of his position. Which part of
his essay did he compare people who desire clean air/water with religious
fundamentalists? He didn't, right?
> Let's talk about the good environmentalists like you, not the naive ones
I don't consider myself an environmentalist, but I think there are some things
that can be done to improve the environment.
For example, one of the biggest environmental problems poor people in poor
countries have is indoor air pollution, and the use of cheap and plentiful
fossil fuels is one solution there.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptTdEoHklmE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptTdEoHklmE)
Fossil fuels are essential to fight poverty too, as people in China
demonstrated.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v15q6M_z13Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v15q6M_z13Q)
In developed countries, loosening zoning and immigration laws and encourage
development in big cities would be great for the environment too.
[http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/glaeser-triumph-
of...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/glaeser-triumph-of-the-city-
excerpt/)
Cambridge physicist David MacKay recommends some individual actions to save
energy (e.g. not flying/driving often) for those who are interested in taking
personal actions.
[http://www.withouthotair.com/c29/page_229.shtml](http://www.withouthotair.com/c29/page_229.shtml)
Recycling isn't one of them, but not buying clutter in the first place would
be a good thing to do (which people are already financially incentivized to
do).
I'm interested in progressive consumption tax though, as explained by Cornell
economist Robert Frank. I want to see some experimentation done in this area.
[http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/12/the_...](http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/12/the_progressive_consumption_tax_a_win_win_solution_for_reducing_american_economic_inequality_.html)
~~~
dahart
> I don't consider myself an environmentalist, but I think there are some
> things that can be done to improve the environment.
Then you are an environmentalist. It's hard not to be one, if you're a human
and want to live.
> not buying clutter in the first place would be a good thing to do
Yes!!
> I'm interested in progressive consumption tax
Me too!
> poor people in poor countries have is indoor air pollution, and the use of
> cheap and plentiful fossil fuels is one solution there. [...] Fossil fuels
> are essential to fight poverty too
I can agree that fossil fuels may be good solutions to the immediate problems
of today like poverty and indoor pollution. But I see from your wording you
already understand, as I do, that fossil fuels are only one option, and may
not be the ideal solution in the future. G7 countries are now setting goals to
reduce dependance on fossil fuels. Why? Is their belief in cleaner energy a
religious cause with only faith and no evidence? No, there are both
environmental and economic reasons for the US to start avoiding fossil fuels.
> This doesn't seem like a fair characterisation of his position. Which part
> of his essay did he compare people who desire clean air/water with religious
> fundamentalists? He didn't, right?
Wrong. And it's not just me, The American Enterprise Institute characterized
this article of Landsburg's explicitly as "Why naive environmentalism is like
religious fundamentalism", which is accurate since that's exactly what
Landsburg said.
[http://www.aei.org/publication/why-naive-environmentalism-
is...](http://www.aei.org/publication/why-naive-environmentalism-is-like-
religious-fundamentalism/)
Just a few direct quotes from Landsburg:
"We consider environmentalism a form of mass hysteria akin to Islamic
fundamentalism or the War on Drugs."
"The naive environmentalism of my daughter's preschool is a force-fed
potpourri of myth, superstition, and ritual that has much in common with the
least reputable varieties of religious Fundamentalism."
"The underlying need to sacrifice, and to compel others to sacrifice, is a
fundamentally religious impulse."
That point was stated explicitly multiple times, and is more or less the
entire thrust of this divisive, mean spirited, and self-righteous rant from
beginning to end. Are you reading the same thing I'm reading? You yourself
adopted and used the term "religious" to describe recycling already in this
thread, by what leaps of logic are you suddenly claiming to be not aware of
this?
Forget the fundamentalist angle, just calling it "religious" is an attempt to
discredit the environmental position as lacking any evidence or logical
thought. Calling someone's reasons religious, without understanding them and
when they wouldn't describe them that way is not just disrespectful, it's
intentionally ignorant, it's trying to not understand and trying to disagree,
self-righteously so. It's too bad Landsburg doesn't recognize the deep
hypocrisy of his own self-righteousness, nor the fact that like you and I, he
does actually believe that clean air and clean water being available now and
to future generations is a mission worth fighting for. He, like you, is an
environmentalist.
You might think Landsburg's writing sounds great, and that it makes a good
reference in a discussion like this, but he said a lot of disrespectful things
about a vague unspecified group of people without a single piece of evidence.
He only states that their position is unreasonable and zealous, but hasn't
shown that even once, nor clarified who he's even talking about. This paper is
really weak, you are doing a much better job explaining your views on
recycling than Landsburg did explaining his. You'd certainly make your points
quicker and more agreeably if you left his writing out and spoke for yourself
instead.
~~~
redthrow
Landsburg says it's _naive_ environmentalists that are similar to religious
fundamentalists (which I fully agree). Those are the kind of people who don't
care about e.g. the cost-benefit analysis of recycling and simply believe
recycling is A Right Thing To Do and attack people who don't share their view.
I don't want to call myself an environmentalist for the simple reason that I
want to distance myself from those naive environmentalists (I view these
people very negatively).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mojiBJ55G2g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mojiBJ55G2g)
But you are right that economists (and people who apply economic thinking to
policy matters) are usually the best kind of environmentalists. I don't think
we need a separate category called "environmentalists". We need people who can
do calm and cold cost-benefit analysis of given policies (environmental or
otherwise), which most people who identify as "environmentalists" can't seem
to do.
~~~
dahart
> Landsburg says it's _naive_ environmentalists that are similar to religious
> fundamentalists (which I fully agree).
Well, I suppose good luck to you both in your quest to sway any reasonable
people, if you want to carry on with your ad hominem attacks. The comparison
is flat-out inaccurate, and you know it. But worse, it's attempting to
escalate the disagreement rather than find common ground.
As far as I can tell, you and Landsburg are both reacting to people acting
self-righteously. Yeah, it happens. It happens everywhere in all subject
matters and all corners of the earth. Smart people do it, and dumb people do
it. Religious people do it, and secular people do it. It's fairly human for
someone who is certain they are right to act self-righteously and attempt to
demean the opposition with less than pure logic and evidence. I can point out
examples of where both you and I have said self-righteous things in this
thread. I will refrain from comparing you or me to Islamic fundamentalists,
you're welcome, but I'm happy to identify the double-standard you've
established for yourself.
Wouldn't it be better to identify as the kind of environmentalist you want to
see other people being, and give it a better name, than to exaggerate your way
to negativity and hate?
Steven didn't make a clear distinction between naive environmentalists and
other kinds, didn't define what "naive" means, and did not qualify every
intentionally inflammatory reference to religious environmentalism with the
word "naive". Both the title and the very first quote I cited above fail to
qualify with "naive", they are talking fairly unambiguously about all
environmentalists. The implication was made absolutely and repeatedly clear
that he's saying environmentalism is naive, not that there's a slice of
environmentalism that is rational and right. It sounds to me like you don't
fully agree with what he's saying.
> But you are right that economists are usually the best kind of
> environmentalists. We need people who can do calm and cold cost-benefit
> analysis of given policies (environmental or otherwise)
I appreciate the attempt to bridge our gap. I do agree that considering the
larger benefits of environmental policy is a good idea. I disagree that
economists are the "best" environmentalists - I'm not convinced economics is
the best framework for evaluating the benefits of environmental policy.
[http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/facpub/323/](http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/facpub/323/)
> which most people who identify as "environmentalists" can't seem to do.
Do you want to provide some evidence for this claim? One of the problems with
your argument, fueled by Landsburg, is you're providing only random amateurs
as evidence against, and limiting to only the ones acting badly. You're happy
to provide a line of professionals to support you, but you don't seem to be
seeking out the professional contrary position. How about debating the people
who've established some of the current recycling policy, rather than worrying
about what people in a parade think when they're provoked?
~~~
redthrow
> Steven didn't make a clear distinction between naive environmentalists and
> other kinds
But you do agree that he did NOT say people who desire clean air are like
religious fundamentalists, right?
Isn't it clear from context that he's talking about the intrusive kind of
environmentalists who try to impose their preference onto others (not people
who want clean water for their kids)? It was clear to me at least.
I think some words (like "environmentalist" or "feminist") are so tainted by
bad actors (who mostly rely on superstition and indoctrination) who label
themselves as such that good actors (who mostly rely on reason and evidence)
who used to call themselves that no longer want to use those words to describe
themselves, and I think it's an understandable sentiment.
I think fossil fuels are great, and I eat meat every day and I appreciate
factory farming that allows me to do so, and I don't recycle. I don't have any
data on this but I think most people who call themselves environmentalists
probably don't want to call someone like me an environmentalist, and I'm fine
with that.
------
dingleberry
let's stop/reduce buying new glasses so there'll be no/less recycling.
i wore -4 diopter and i'm six months in 'no glasses' experiment after reading
'getting stronger' blog on eyes homeostatis. Here's what i found: \- i can
read books without glasses at all. i used to wear my -4 for anything. no more.
\- for laptop, i can use reduced (-2) and texts come sharp. i opt for no
glasses and increase the text font size instead. \- for driving <motorbike>,
daylight gives sharper vision (it's like wearing a -2, with no glasses). it's
a bit blurry for driving, but i don't need eagle-sharp clarity, i just need to
avoid collisions.
so instead of donating your old glasses, you can use them to train your eyes,
say for example: no glasses for books, -1 for tvs, -2 for laptop, -3 for
driving, etc
i chose cold turkey because i often forget where i put my glasses and it's
frustrating.
there is a plus lens therapy which i don't practice much because i keep losing
my plus glasses.
~~~
titzer
Please don't drive without glasses. You're likely violating the law and you
are putting others in danger.
~~~
dingleberry
for motorbike, it's okay because the distance to front wheel is short and my
vision is sharp up to the distance.
i can't read number plates and stuffs clearly; however, i don't drive to see
those things clearly. my mission is move from a to b without collisions.
~~~
chillwaves
Motorbike without vision is so much safer than car without vision. I'm
relieved to hear.
~~~
dingleberry
what a creative imagination for a spin
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Chrome In-Browser Advertising - dkokelley
http://imgur.com/gi55w
======
dkokelley
Has anyone else seen this? I just found it in my browser. The link leads to:
http://www.google.com/chromebook/index.html#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ntp-holidays-na-us-bkws&utm_medium=ntp-holidays
Personally, I'm appalled that Google would reach into the browser for
advertising. To me it's analogous to Microsoft bringing me pop ups in Windows
to show me their new phones. I understand that the ad is small and
unobtrusive, but it really feels like an invasion of sacred ground to me. I
expect advertising when I venture out into the web, through the pages I
request. I don't expect it injected directly into the programs I use.
~~~
mavrc
Google makes the lion's share of its profits from ad revenue. Chrome is a big
billboard. A shiny, speedy billboard, but a billboard nonetheless. It's no big
surprise for them to want to monetize it eventually.
I would imagine the reason Microsoft never entertained that idea with IE is
because Microsoft's core business is selling software, not selling ads. If
you're running IE, you already gave MS money, either directly or indirectly.
------
stephenr
That's what you get when you use a browser from a company that makes ~97% of
it's revenue from advertising.
When people say "the user is the product" in relation to Google, they aren't
joking.
~~~
dkokelley
I understand that. That's why I'm perfectly happy to see advertising in my
search results. I would not have minded if the ad was placed on the Google
home page or at the top of my search results, but this ad is showing up in my
software, on my own computer. I haven't seen any other reputable browser do
that (without annoying toolbars installed, that is).
~~~
stephenr
And no other browser maker makes the vast majority of its revenue from
advertising.
Google aren't in the business of making web browsers, or tablet and phone OS'
out of the goodness of their heart. it's all about pushing users to use their
services, so they can mine that usage for data, so they can serve more ads,
more effectively.
------
moonboots
Reminds me of the altavista toolbar that came with their free dial up
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
XKCD: Depth Perception Enhancer (can someone make this app) - theschwa
http://xkcd.com/941/
======
fractallyte
It's been done: <http://eyestilts.com/>
Also, Cassidy Curtis is a rather interesting person:
<http://www.otherthings.com/uw/>
~~~
theschwa
That's awesome. I still would want to try something with a greater distance
between the "eyes" to view something like clouds though.
------
noonespecial
I see your extended depth perception cameras and raise you one pair of PTZ's
and a "Fat Shark" RC head tracker so you can move your head as well.
Oh, and I call this prior art so no numb-nutz can go try to patent it.
------
theschwa
I think the hardest part of this app is having access to a good place to put
the webcams.
~~~
sek
Just one guy has to do this, i am sure there is a xkcd reader who has access
to a football field.
~~~
waterlesscloud
I'm wondering what the distance really needs to be. Many people could do
something similar if it was plausible to use say the ends of a house, or an
office building.
Wouldn't the orientation of the cameras need to be precise? I suppose you
could correct for that in software...
~~~
theschwa
I did some basic back of the envelope math to determine what distance it
should be. According to [http://times-news.com/bobdoyle/x546406583/How-far-
away-and-h...](http://times-news.com/bobdoyle/x546406583/How-far-away-and-how-
big-are-clouds) an observed Cumulus cloud was about .25 miles wide. If you
want it to feel like you're looking at an object relatively the size of a
computer screen (I just said 1ft across), and your eyes are about 2.5in
across. Then the ratio is 2.5in/12in = Distance_between_cameras/.25mi
Which results in about 300ft or a football field. The you make that distance,
the less the clouds will feel like tangible objects.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Genetics allows the dead to speak from the grave - thaumasiotes
http://www.unz.com/gnxp/allowing-the-dead-to-speak/
======
personjerry
I find it painfully ironic that the first part of the article talks about how
we should take care not to exaggerate our findings in studying history, when
the title of the article "Genetics allows the dead to speak from the grave" is
itself a blatant exaggeration.
------
anti-shill
I have signed up for cryonics, and I will hopefully be cryopreserved at death,
to be revived in the distant future.
if revived, I will speak to the future for you. And I will say good things. I
promise.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Obesity Pill Passes First Human Trial - cwan
http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2010/04/22/obesity-capsule-from-gelesis-made-to-swell-up-in-the-stomach-passes-first-human-trial/
======
yanowitz
I wonder if this really works long term, how people's leptin resistance
confounds its efficacy, etc.
I still remained shocked at how effective carb restriction is, assuming you
swap in lots of protein and fat from non-processsed food sources. The hassle
is that it takes more time to construct meals, etc., but if you eat less than
40g of carbs a day, you can eat to satiety and lose weight with relative ease
(at least, I did, as did many other people I know, so sample size of n=~8,
obviously, not conclusive).
~~~
msluyter
Add +1 to your sample size. I cut out all grains at the beginning of this year
and effortlessly lost about 30 lbs.
~~~
abrown28
I weighed 320 pounds when I cut out carbs. I lost approximately 5 pounds a
week until I got down to 275 at which point I couldn't stand it any more and
pigged out on donuts.
------
allenp
The pill works by expanding to make you feel full (100-to-1 ratio claimed).
Here is a link to a 4min animation and a 1 minute live video (pill in glass of
water):
<http://www.gelesis.com/content/technology/>
~~~
JeremyStein
Thanks for the link to the video. I had imagined it acting like expanding
polyurethane foam. I see it looks more like mush, which doesn't seem as
dangerous.
------
JeremyStein
What happens if you swallow a dozen of these?
~~~
swombat
The same thing that happens when you eat an overly large volume of something
else, I would imagine: you throw up.
~~~
hugh3
If the pill genuinely expands 100-fold in your stomach then I can see it being
worse than throwing up. Either it might suck all the fluid out of your
stomach, in which case you won't be able to throw up, or it might fill your
stomach so rapidly that you can't bring them all up in time.
Of course I'm sure that the consequences of overdose are something the
researchers have thought about carefully and probably tested on animals by
now.
~~~
rsheridan6
You should be able to throw up even if it sucks the fluid out of your stomach.
The muscles would still work, and the stuff should be slimy enough that it's
not going to scratch up your esophagus.
------
stavrianos
Artificial roughage. Nice.
------
ableal
> Obesity Pill Passes First Human Trial
Comes out alright.
(Go ahead, shoot me - but first flag this also.)
~~~
swombat
Why do you feel this story should be flagged? It's technology-related,
involves a (biotech) start-up, and could impact a significant percentage of HN
readers' personal lives. Seems like the ideal HN story...
~~~
ableal
Looks like one of those general interest stories you can find in any
newspaper, put out by PR to prop up the company. No technical details, secret
sauce, seems similar to just filling up with gelatin, except in expensive
pills. Not really 'hard biotech', not worth the attention, in short.
P.S. Yesterday, for instance, I voted up that 'paid comments' site link, not
because I think it's a good idea, but because it might generate some
interesting comments. I don't think it's the case with this, or economics/etc
discussions which quickly degenerate into pointless squabbling. Been around
that block with Usenet, and the experience hasn't improved - nowadays there's
not even killfiles, and the reading is slower. Not looking good.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why do students dissect frogs? - gelizondo
http://mentalfloss.com/article/49855/why-do-students-dissect-frogs
======
mcherm
One important reason is to have students "get their hands dirty". There is a
skill to performing (and observing) experiments which is different than just
reading in books, and a skill in working with biological organisms that is
different from chemistry experiments. If every pair of lab partners dissects a
frog there is sure to be some organ that some teams don't find, and not every
frog will look the same. Experiencing this is an important pedagogical
activity.
------
rman666
Because it would be uncomfortable the other way around.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What is a milkshake duck? And why isn't it the word of the year? - smacktoward
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/dec/18/what-is-a-milkshake-duck-and-why-isnt-it-the-word-of-the-year
======
zadkey
because it's clearly 2 words
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Paul Graham says VCs Not Bold Enough. I Say None of Us Are - pchristensen
http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2008/04/paul-graham-says-vcs-not-bold-enough-i.html
======
henning
Yes, people are naturally risk-averse.
But if you're a VC, you have thrust yourself into the spotlight as someone
with an appetite for calculated risk and a willingness to live outside your
comfort zone. You are saying that you are someone special.
~~~
dgabriel
And this is why I think Paul's essay was interesting and eye-opening, while
this essay is a statement of the blindingly, no-duh obvious. (no offense - you
seem like a smart, nice guy, hank :)
------
edw519
Speak for yourself, Hank.
Some of us may be too damn bold for our own good.
Starting a software business really isn't logical, except maybe for someone
young with nothing to lose and nothing better to do.
In my case, if I took all the hours I put into my own products and multiplied
that by what I could have billed someone else (or even earned as an employee),
well let's just say, "I don't want to know." The opportunity cost is
staggering (not to mention time away from family and friends). Many of us
could easily have put 7 figure sweat equity into our startups. Money that was
never earned and may still never be seen.
Forget about angels and VCs - if what we entrepreneurs are already doing isn't
bold, I don't know what is.
~~~
hank777
Life is about more than just business. And being bold isn't, at least in my
context, about working harder. In fact it sounds like, for you, work is a
default. I am talking about exploring things in life that you might not
otherwise explore. Doing things you might otherwise dismiss. They do not need
to be big things. Its not about who can have a heart attack sooner.
~~~
edw519
"work is a default"
Gee, I never thought about it that way. I hope that's not true.
OTOH, I _have_ to do what I'm doing. I _have_ to.
This is the hardest thing to get other people to understand. One of the
reasons I turn down a lot of consulting to work on my startup is because I'm
sick and tired of doing things wrong and helping people get things done with
crappy software and tools. For years I've said, "That sucks, I can do way
better." So now I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
Make no mistake about it. I _love_ what I do. I can't imagine not doing it. If
you call that "working harder" or "default", fine. But please don't say none
of us is bold. Some of us have the scars to show otherwise.
~~~
hank777
"But please don't say none of us is bold."
I think you take things a bit too literally. This piece is about humanity in
general, not "edw519"
~~~
brlewis
One thing I've learned from watching people react to various essays, is that
if they can read it as being about them, they will. You would be well advised
to say "few" instead of "none" if you don't want to raise the ire of the few.
~~~
edw519
"if they can read it as being about them, they will"
That means you've reached them. Good job.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Door to Hell - fairydust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_to_Hell
======
vwinsyee
Reminds of me Centralia, Pennsylvania [1] -- which is purported to be an
inspiration for Silent Hill.
[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire)
------
Dru89
I also like the story of Oak Island:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island)
------
jloughry
It shows up on Google Maps at 40.252611,58.439389
~~~
Zuider
Whoa, the Beast has a number, and now he's got map coordinates. All he needs
is a crocodile handbag and matching luggage to complete the ensemble.
------
hcarvalhoalves
> The Door to Hell is (...) burning continuously since it was lit by Soviet
> petrochemical scientists in 1971 (...)
Alright folks, we found the culprits for the global warming.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tiangong-1 Re-Entry Live Updates - lunchbreak
http://www.aerospace.org/cords/reentry-predictions/tiangong-1-reentry/
======
okket
"#JFSCC confirmed #Tiangong1 reentered the atmosphere over the southern
Pacific Ocean at ~5:16 p.m. (PST) April 1."
[https://twitter.com/18SPCS/status/980614448745406465](https://twitter.com/18SPCS/status/980614448745406465)
I also recommend to follow Jonathan McDowell (@planet4589) for more informal
updates on space activity.
------
pksadiq
Even more recent updates from China Manned Space Agency:
[http://en.cmse.gov.cn/col/col1763/index.html](http://en.cmse.gov.cn/col/col1763/index.html)
------
exikyut
What other live data is there for this?
(Besides the PNG which I am now downloading every 30 seconds using this in an
empty dir:)
while true; do wget http://www.aerospace.org/CORDSuploads/TiangongStoryboard.png -O $(date +%s).png; sleep 30; done
Seems to update every 5 minutes at the moment; I'm overengineering incase they
increase it at some point.
~~~
anothergoogler
<snipped crappy script>
~~~
soneil
not just wget -N in a polite loop?
~~~
anothergoogler
I've been vanquished!
------
akavel
A reddit thread:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/88bsyf/tiangong1_ree...](https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/88bsyf/tiangong1_reentry_megathread/?ref=share&ref_source=link)
------
lunchbreak
The re-entry dashboard has the live details, but its preventing direct links,
so I've linked to the main page.
~~~
sduclos
get this, at 22:52:28 UTC, the time to reentry is 1.6h +- 1.7h
~~~
davrosthedalek
I think that's because it's currently not tracked. I.e., the station could
have reentered a couple of minuted ago, and they wouldn't know.
~~~
sduclos
correct, also extrapolating on bunch of equation systems is bound to lead to
this sort math aberration
------
exikyut
After a multi-hour fight with imgur, which has some of the most BROKEN website
design I have experienced (so. many. bugs.), I uploaded the tiny album of
snapshots I took.
[https://imgur.com/a/CWkeP](https://imgur.com/a/CWkeP)
------
rch
Looks like it's done.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Gary Becker's biggest mistake - smollett
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/09/what-was-gary-beckers-biggest-mistake.html
======
littlewing
One of the more successful, though still brutal, experiments in handling
crime, in my opinion, was the penal colony in New South Wales, Australia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_New_South_Wales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_New_South_Wales)
From 1788-1792, it started out tough with thousands of professional criminals
ill-fitted for the skills required. 1/4 of the 2nd fleet lost their lives. The
rest survived near starvation. However, between 1810-1821, it transitioned
from a penal colony to a budding free society.
I can't think of many successes like that in our history where so many career
criminals were reformed so quickly, the sacrifices of lives not withstanding.
~~~
idlewords
A lot of those criminals were people who were transported for trifling
offenses like theft. The real driver behind Australian settlement was
overpopulation in Britain, not the need to get rid of some hardened criminal
class. _The Fatal Shore_ is a good, readable history of this social
experiment.
Note also that this "budding free society" was responsible for horrible
atrocities against the native population until fairly recent times.
~~~
littlewing
> Note also that this "budding free society" was responsible for horrible
> atrocities against the native population until fairly recent times.
Doesn't excuse it, but I can't think of a first world country that hasn't
committed atrocities to native people or forced people into slavery. In many
ways, the world is much better today than it was before.
~~~
tptacek
It's interesting how attempting to reconcile a "much better world" with
multiple genocides forces you to evaluate what it means for the world to be
"better" or "worse". If we can destroy a whole culture and virtually all its
people to make room for settlers, what other forms of progress might invoke
the same "eminent domain" against us?
The world is certainly a nicer place for us to live in than it was for the
pre-colonial Australian aborigines, or the pre-Columbian Iroquois. I like
antibiotics, plumbing, and electricity too. But too: there are lots of other
niceties that would be much easier to dole out to our friends and fellow
citizens if we could simply eliminate pesky rival people. Were constitutional
democracy, English common law, and industrialization the key improvements that
justified our ancestors perpetration of genocide? Are we done now?
------
josu
tl;dr: His mistake: longer sentences didn’t reduce crime as much as expected
because criminals aren’t good at thinking about the future; criminal types
have problems forecasting and they have difficulty regulating their emotions
and controlling their impulses.
------
jbapple
I think the notion that "more police on the street [makes] punishment more
quick, clear, and consistent" needs supporting evidence.
------
erikpukinskis
This is a harder sell in the connected age, because every time someone on
early release commits a serious crime it is widely reported and proof in the
public's eye that longer sentences make sense.
But when someone is released early and quietly finishes out their life that
doesn't make the news.
------
gcb0
> he argues that an optimal punishment system would combine a low probability
> of being punished with a high level of punishment if caught
the Trailer Park Boys series has an episode were small criminals decide to
lower their crimes even more so police would ignore them.
------
skywhopper
> "models are to be used but not to be believed."
Data scientists, please take note.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Congress: Stop Trying to Limit EFF’s Ability to Challenge Patents - DiabloD3
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/congress-stop-trying-limit-effs-ability-challenge-patents
======
lostinpoetics
Cost. Cost is the biggest issue with post-grant proceedings. I don't know how
many times I've seen people that have air-tight cases but they,
understandably, won't, or can't, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars (filing
fees and attorney's fees) to pull the trigger. The cost for these things is
truly astronomical compared to quite literally every other aspect of the
patent office. Even more astounding is that there is no reduction in fees for
entity size (like almost every other fee). So a solo inventor and a Fortune
500 company pay exactly the same amount in filing fees, which is absurd and
makes zero sense (even the older, reexamination route has fees based on entity
size. e.g., large companies pay 12k, while "micro entities" pay 3k). I'm
hoping, but not holding my breath, that eventually the fee structure will
change; but given the popularity of post-grant proceedings, I can't imagine
the PTO pulling the plug on a solid money maker for them. Here's a quick
scatter plot of fees for micro entities, try and guess which are post-grant
filing fees: [http://i.imgur.com/F1Q2E1l.png](http://i.imgur.com/F1Q2E1l.png)
~~~
rhino369
The attorney's fees aren't the PTO's fault, that is just what good talent
costs.
The fees are large but an post grant proceeding isn't just a patent reexam.
It's a mini-trial. There is a lot of manhours required on the USPTOs side of
things.
~~~
Taek
In an ideal world, the patent system and the legal system in general would be
substantially simpler, and premium talent wouldn't be required. For really
clear cut cases you wouldn't need an attorney at all.
Same thing with the mini-trial. In an ideal world the system would be a lot
more efficient and cheaper for everybody.
------
Balgair
[https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup](https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup)
No matter how you feel about this issue, a quick phone call to your senator
can help have your voice heard much louder than any HN comment. If you have
not already, put your senators' and representative's phone number in your
contacts list for easy access to democracy.
~~~
chrisBob
I don't like calling, but I have always gotten a nice response to the emails I
have sent to both my national and state level representatives.
~~~
Balgair
Every little bit helps! Just make sure to keep it up and keep emailing. Good
job.
------
Animats
The new post-grant patent challenge scheme has made it a lot harder to enforce
patents. Now, an accused infringer can file a post-grant review request and
tie things up for a year or two, even if they lose. During that period, it's
almost impossible to license the patent. The patent holder has to defend
against the post-grant review, which is expensive.
There are few real "patent trolls". The EFF's list is very short.[1] Only one
law firm, Farney Daniels, is listed as having sent out more than 3 demand
letters. This isn't a big problem.
You need to own intellectual property if, for example, you're writing for
Apple's platform. If your idea is a success, Apple copies it and then turns
off your platform access. Look what just happened to Pebble.
[1]
[https://trollingeffects.org/lawfirms](https://trollingeffects.org/lawfirms)
------
driverdan
> a few people have publicly challenged some important patents with the intent
> of making a quick buck by shorting the patent owner’s stock
This is exactly the type of thing we should _encourage_. It gives companies a
strong incentive to avoid filing frivolous patents.
------
throwawaykf05
_> We say “perceived” because, if a patent is bad, should it really matter who
is challenging it?_
The problem with this premise, of course, is that these patents are not being
challenged because they are "bad", they're challenged because somebody wants
to make a quick buck. They _may_ be bad patents, because to get an IPR
approved you must show that you have a fair chance of invalidating at least
one claim. And statistically claims are very likely to be invalidated when
IPRs are granted.
But these IPRs are filed in bad faith, so it is an abuse of the USPTO's
already limited resources. So far most IPRs have been filed by parties that
are actually involved in litigation and hence have strong motivation to see
claims invalidated. It is yet to be seen whether the same statistics will
apply for cases like these.
There does need to be a way for the EFFs of this world to challenge patents
that are actively being asserted because small entities cannot afford to do
so. I'd say that representing the targeted parties should be enough to give
standing to file IPRs.
------
trjordan
This is a legitimate discussion.
Another story on the front page right now talks about a class-action lawsuit
against Google for age discrimination. The person that's put up to it has a
pretty flimsy case, it appears ("they didn't like me after my phone screen!
Age discrimination!"), but the class action may uncover something more real.
Finding somebody who has a real complaint seems before starting litigation
seems like a good solution, because it ensures that at least one person was
harmed. On the other hand, the EFF has a good point here: most of the people
harmed by this aren't going to spend the money to deal with it.
I like the idea of EFF pushing back against unfair patents, but I don't like
the idea of ambitious lawyers building spurious class-action lawsuits. I'll
admit that I'm not fully informed about either of these cases, but there is
real value in putting up barriers to spurious cases that cost real money.
~~~
ScottBurson
I think you need to understand the situation a little better. EFF is not suing
the patent holder; the patent holder has nothing to lose in these actions
except a valid patent, and EFF has nothing to gain except insofar as
invalidating the patent is in the public interest. The analogy to a class
action lawsuit is not a good one.
------
EdSharkey
Chris Coons is a Democrat. The article didn't mention that fact.
Also, I'm not sure if this is an example of crony capitalism or not; I don't
fully understand the stated motivation for the legislation. The motivation
seems fishy at first blush.
------
im3w1l
>Specifically, a few people have publicly challenged some important patents
with the intent of making a quick buck by shorting the patent owner’s stock.
Shouldn't that be against insider trading laws somehow?
~~~
Someone1234
Why would an external entity to a company be subject to insider trading
allegations on that company's stock?
[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider_trading#Definition_of_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider_trading#Definition_of_.22insider.22)
~~~
belorn
I would find it relevant since insider trading laws are intended to catch
individuals with access to nonpublic information about a company and that then
uses that information in a unfair way on the stock market.
Even in countries that don't use civil law, intentions should still be
relevant in discussing the law or its enforcement.
------
amelius
I am sometimes wondering why we should _not_ have software patents.
Programming, mechanical engineering and medicine, etc. are all done behind a
computer, so we should allow patents in all of these fields, or none of them.
Also, more generally, of the two following people, who would you rather see
having the biggest probability of making more money?
1\. The person who has the most money.
2\. The person who has the best ideas.
Without (software) patents, it seems that 1 is more likely.
~~~
nitrogen
Software differs from other fields in two important regards:
1\. Software is math. Not "does" math, but "is" math. See Google and HNsearch
for references to the endless discussions of this fact.
2\. A patent on a device covers an implementation. Patents on software have
been used to block entire ideas, regardless of implementation.
Based on these factors, plus many more that have been argued to death,
software should be ineligible for patents, and software on a computer of any
kind should not be capable of infringing any patent. Failing that, independent
invention needs to be a 100% defense against infringement, and evidence of
obviousness, especially with software, to release the silent stranglehold that
the threat of litigation has on software innovation.
~~~
Animats
_" Failing that, independent invention needs to be a 100% defense against
infringement"_
Won't work. That's a state-of-mind issue. Infringers will claim "independent
infringement", when in fact they got the idea from the patented work.
~~~
ahomescu1
Sure, and then it would be up to the patent holder to prove intentional
infringement. Otherwise, they don't get anything. That's how the legal system
works in many other situations, the accuser has to prove their accusations,
which is perfectly reasonable to me.
~~~
Animats
Patent infringement doesn't require intent. An "independent invention" defense
rewards infringers who keep their technology secret. If the technology is
publicly disclosed by an independent party prior to the patent application
date, it's not patentable anyway. But secret independent invention is not
prior art. Part of the idea behind patents is to reward public disclosure.
After the 20 years are up, anybody can do it.
~~~
ahomescu1
> Patent infringement doesn't require intent.
I know, but that's the whole point: maybe it should (in a lawsuit at least).
------
bougiefever
It should be easier to get attorney's fees paid by the loser. That would cut
down on a lot of these kinds of cases.
~~~
anigbrowl
And further deter small plaintiffs or defendants from having their day in
court, because a loss will inevitably result in bankruptcy. All sorts of
solutions have great upside, but that's not the only thing you need to
consider.
------
Lord_Zero
"Okay, were sorry about that." \- congress
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Deploy Docker images directly to Heroku - troethom
https://devcenter.heroku.com/changelog-items/926
======
tracker1
Only suggestion, is try a super-lightweight base like alpine... though it uses
musl libs, so you do need to test, but usually get a smaller base than using
say Ubuntu Server. ymmv.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Decentralized P2P Messaging with Blockchain Verified Identities - prabhaav
https://www.stealthy.im/?ref=hn
======
ac4tw
Greetings, I develop Stealthy with the OP. After reading a lot of the HN dApp
posts, I want to address two frequently occurring topics from the comments:
1\. How decentralized is this dAPP? Stealthy is decentralized in two main
ways. The first is that it does not require a centralized signaling server to
establish connections, when two people have added each other as contacts. That
of course requires that they initially co-ordinate outside of stealthy (though
we do however have a convenience mode that does a one-time centralized
introduction / discovery service if both users have that enabled). The second
is our storage, which is built atop Blockstack's GAIA storage system (more
info here:
[https://github.com/blockstack/gaia](https://github.com/blockstack/gaia)).
2\. How secure is Clientside javascript crypto? In other HN posts, I've seen
quotes like: 'Nobody who's serious about security is going to use an app that
does crypto in javascript. Why not make browser plugins to avoid this
complication?' and posted the classic Javascript cryptography being considered
harmful article. Blockstack gets around this in a way similar to being a plug-
in with their one-time browser download (which is essentially a node process
that also has your crypto keys/generation capabilities so you're not
transmitting those back and forth for acquisition purposes). You can find more
information on that subject in this forum post:
[https://forum.blockstack.org/t/blockstack-vs-clientside-
js-e...](https://forum.blockstack.org/t/blockstack-vs-clientside-js-
encryption-concerns/4677)
~~~
lawl
I don't understand what a blockchain is needed for. Resolving registered
identities to a public key? Because I can't seem to sign up without an e-mail
address, which seems... weird to me.
What is the centralized storage used for? Offline messages and history sync
between devices? _edit: i didn 't see the dAPP part, is it also used in P2P
messaging?_
How does your decentralized lookup avoid leaking friend requests out into the
open?
On your website it also sais you use WebRTC for P2P communication. Am I
correct in my assumption then that the STUN/TURN/ICE server at least knows who
started talking to whom and when?
I really miss a detailed architecture/protocol overview. It doesn't have to be
as detailed as for example the signal docs[0], but just something to be able
to understand your architecture and the choices you made on a high level.
[0]
[https://signal.org/docs/specifications/doubleratchet/](https://signal.org/docs/specifications/doubleratchet/)
~~~
ac4tw
Good questions lawl. I'll try to address them in order:
1\. "A blockchain, implemented using virtualchains [6], is used to bind
digital property, like domain names, to public keys. Blockstack’s blockchain
solves the problem of bootstrapping trust in a decentralized way i.e., a new
node on the network can independently verify all data bindings."
[[https://blockstack.org/whitepaper.pdf](https://blockstack.org/whitepaper.pdf)]
2\. I believe collecting an email is required in case you need to recover your
12 word pass phrase.
3\. The default storage that comes with a Blockstack account is a Microsoft
Azure Blob. If you implement your own GAIA hub, you can circumvent that with a
number of other options, but conventionally you would refer to the other
options as 'centralized' too. Consider this though: "We decentralize data
storage with relationship to trusted 3rd parties - remove control from app
developers, cloud storage providers, etc and give it to users."
[[https://forum.blockstack.org/t/gaia-
decentralisation/4275/2](https://forum.blockstack.org/t/gaia-
decentralisation/4275/2)].
Anyway, each user's storage is used for the following things: \- contact lists
\- conversations \- offline messaging \- initiating WebRTC connections
It is all encrypted client side.
4\. We have two forms of discovering users.
The first is where the users coordinate outside of Stealthy to add eachother
as contacts--at this point communication is established only between the two
chat clients with no third party, consequently there is not traditional
leakage that may occur in this mode.
The second (which can be disabled from options) uses a centralized DB and
listeners to simply exchange the notion that someone wishes to talk to you. If
that centralized DB were to be hacked, that request could theoretically be
leaked. The invitation to talk only occurs initially when both parties are not
within eachother's contact lists.
5\. We do use WebRTC for P2P communication and it can be disabled from the
options or during initial configuration. The STUN/TURN/ICE server could
certainly acquire some of the information that you mention.
6\. We agree with your notion of an architecture / protocol overview and are
currently considering precisely how we will proceed with that. Earlier this
month we spoke with a representative from the EFF and their advice was to
publish a paper on the subject and then commence with formal review of our
work, similar to Signal.
Hopefully this helps.
~~~
lawl
Thanks, you answered some questions, but I still have some question marks.
I've bookmarked the website and will check back for the (white)paper.
------
gnarcoregrizz
So this is like a decentralized keybase? Are the identities and associated
public keys stored in a decentralized manner? It wasn't clear to me when I
registered an identity, because I figured if it's decentralized, then I would
have to pay for it in some manner with a cryptotoken. I always thought this
would be a good use case for Ethereum (and indeed, there seem to be a few
projects working on it). It would be extra cool if it could integrate into
existing wallet/dapp software so you don't need to juggle extra keys. Anyway,
cool stuff. I'm hoping more people adopt end to end encryption
edit* looks like the identities are stored in a decentralized manner, and that
all of this should integrate with blockstack's keychain and browser
~~~
prabhaav
Yes, the blockstack node package running on your machine generates the key
pairs for you and thus the keys are stored on your local machine, not a
centralized authority.
The reason you need an .id is because we have to register your identity on the
blockchain and propagate your zonefiles.
We can help you register a .stealthy.id that gives you access to the tool if
you create an account today :)
------
kodablah
Pardon my Blockstack ignorance, but are keys deterministically created via
some kind of KDF w/ some factors I provide or are the users expected to handle
key management? IMO the latter significantly restricts adoption, especially in
a multi-device-same-identity world.
~~~
prabhaav
Users have to back up a 12-word mnemonic phrase, a la BIP39. We also email
users an encrypted copy of their phrase (where their password is the key)
~~~
kodablah
I think email is a reasonable place to do this since it's one of the few
storage places people keep around across devices (sadly, other services with
no centralization at all can't easily send SMTP). Could also consider a
printable QR code I guess. I assume the Blockstack browser or whatever makes
it easy to enter your clear text 12 word phrase or the encrypted one w/ the
password when using a new device. I also assume that there is no way to revoke
access by device (e.g. per-device keys but still same identity and some
revocation list, I dunno). These are definitely tough problems.
~~~
prabhaav
Another decentralized app, [https://keys.casa/](https://keys.casa/), is
solving a similar problem.
------
djangowithme
Are you running IPFS nodes for unloaders to keep data persisting? From what I
understand, as soon as the last available node stops broadcasting, the pinned
object is gone.
How do you deal with illegal content? Aka people using this service to host
bad content.
~~~
prabhaav
The message data is encrypted client side and stored in a cloud service of
your choice (dropbox, s3, google, azure: default).
We don't host any data, it's stored in the users data store; the user controls
all their data.
~~~
voxadam
Would it be possible to shard the encrypted data across multiple backends
(e.g. across multiple providers or across multiple accounts on a single
service)? It might be useful/interesting/fun to use erasure coding to increase
redundancy and availibiliy.
~~~
prabhaav
Yes, people can redundantly shard their data to multiple cloud storage
services. We plan on offering such a service if there is demand for it.
------
handbanana
It's a nice looking product. My main concern with apps like these are that
they use very green looking projects.
[https://github.com/blockstack/gaia](https://github.com/blockstack/gaia) has
154 total commits and 6 contributors. The rest of blockstack's stuff has more,
but still hardly a lot. I guess my point is, I'd be weary of anything that
appears this early on in development - whether it's a dAPP or not
~~~
ac4tw
Thank you. I appreciate your concern. My understanding is that the Blockstack
team has more development planned for GAIA, but to date have been focused more
in other areas, as you discovered. We've been working on their platform since
December of '2017 and so far their GAIA storage system has been reasonably
reliable for us.
*Edit: Though recently I've been considering the system and Stealthy's use of it for scaling purposes and it's likely that we'll be looking into running our own hub(s). A brief discussion on throttling of the free hubs, best practices, and performance here: [https://forum.blockstack.org/t/gaia-read-write-and-throttlin...](https://forum.blockstack.org/t/gaia-read-write-and-throttling-specifications/4926/2)
------
ac4tw
The diagram at the bottom of this link, 'How Blockstack Works', has proven
helpful to me for discussing and understanding Blockstack and dApps built upon
it: [https://blockstack.org/intro](https://blockstack.org/intro)
------
dnprock
I looked at blockchain and couldn't find information on how identity
management works. I assume identities are stored on centralized blockstack
servers. And how do I recover if I lose my passphrase or password?
How does stealthy address this issue?
~~~
ac4tw
Answering your question to my satisfaction is difficult from a single source,
but here are some key points and source links that may help:
* "Can Blockstack control my data or ID when I use it? No. When you're using a Blockstack client you control your data and ID with a private key. This private key never leaves your device and is meant to stay on your laptop/phone. As long as no one gets access to your private key, no one can control your data or ID. When you use Blockstack, by design, your private keys are never sent to any remote servers." [[https://blockstack.org/faq](https://blockstack.org/faq)]
* "The main difference between blockchain identities and accounts on any other service is that blockchain-based systems have strong ownership. Blockchain identities can't be confiscated by any service because the system defines ownership according to ownership of public-private keypairs, just like ownership of coins on Bitcoin. This is in direct contrast to Twitter or Facebook usernames, which could be confiscated or censored at any time by the respective companies that they belong to." [[https://blockstack.org/posts/blockchain-identity](https://blockstack.org/posts/blockchain-identity)]
* "Identity is user-controlled and utilizes the blockchain for secure management of keys, devices and usernames. When users login with apps, they are anonymous by default and use an app-specific key, but their full identity can be revealed and proven at any time. Keys are for signing and encryption and can be changed as devices need to be added or removed." [[https://blockstack.org/intro](https://blockstack.org/intro)]
------
jhunter1016
The types of apps we're seeing on the decentralized market are pretty damn
impressive.
The thing I've been wondering is how this works without a Blockstack ID? What
does someone do if they don't have an ID?
~~~
prabhaav
A Blockstack ID is required for chat to work in a decentralized manner and for
people to look you up.
Good news is we can register you for a .stealthy.id when you create your
account and thus you don't have to pay for a Blockstack ID.
------
pohl
Could an internationally-distributed, loosely-affiliated group of people use
this to orchestrate tipping an election for some quid pro quo without leaving
a paper trail? Asking for a friend.
~~~
prabhaav
Haha maybe one day! We have no visibility into the messages that are sent on
Stealthy.
------
prabhaav
If you have an id or have registered for an id, you can fill out this app
feedback survey and earn a 100 stacks:
[https://contribute.blockstack.org/b/mpktxj/view](https://contribute.blockstack.org/b/mpktxj/view)
------
dale14
We need more stuff like that
~~~
prabhaav
Thanks Dale! If you have an id you can fill out app survey and get a 100
stacks! Here's the link:
[https://contribute.blockstack.org/b/mpktxj/view](https://contribute.blockstack.org/b/mpktxj/view)
~~~
dale14
Thanks mate
------
justme00
Great value mate!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stop being a productivity nerd, and chill out - feint
http://feint.me/2009/12/chill-out-productivity/
======
edw519
When I was a junior programmer, I wanted to maximize productivity which I
defined as output / input.
As I gained experience, I wanted to maximize output only, figuring that input
would naturally minimize itself as I got more proficient.
Now I only worry about 2 things:
1. maximizing output of the top item on my list
2. making sure the right item is at the top of my list
This seems to be working much better than any other approach I have ever
taken. When I make the most progress on the most important item, things like
project management, efficiency, and time management suddenly seem much less
important.
~~~
jacquesm
The only thing I seem to worry about is making sure that the total amount of
work on my 'list' is smaller when I quit the day than when I begin it. Most
days I seem to be losing that battle.
~~~
discojesus
I don't think this is the criterion you want - if I won the lottery, for
example, my to-do list would explode with all the new possibilities presented
before me; however, if that happened, I certainly wouldn't consider it a bad
day. :)
~~~
jacquesm
Good point, I had in mind that all things being otherwise equal and being
occupied with more or less the same stuff for the duration of the existence of
said list.
And I don't play the lottery ;)
~~~
discojesus
"I had in mind that all things being otherwise equal and being occupied with
more or less the same stuff for the duration of the existence of said list."
Fair enough.
"And I don't play the lottery ;)"
Nor do I; 'twas just a thought experiment :)
------
tel
This blog scrapes HN comments and reposts them on the blog without permission.
In the process it serializes the threading and so it's going to destroy the
threaded nature of these reposted conversations. In this way it's rebranding
the information served here, misrepresenting the attention commenters here
give the post, and confusing the outside reader.
I know there's an attempt to smooth these difficulties with the "This comment
was originally posted on [[Hacker News]]" line but that leaves me still
confused as to the origin and meaning of the comment quoted. I interpret that
to mean, ridiculously, that commenters at HN gave their permission explicitly
to repost comments on Feint. Actually, it even appears to me that they
personally moved it.
This is, of course, very similar to the the controversy AllThingsDigital
stirred up a little while ago
([http://waxy.org/2009/04/all_things_digital_and_transparency_...](http://waxy.org/2009/04/all_things_digital_and_transparency_in_online_journalism/))
but I don't think Feint is really making a large improvement over that
situation.
~~~
feint
its a backtype plugin used by hundreds of blogs
~~~
sfk
And it's equally idiotic on your blog as it is on hundreds of other blogs.
What is the point of having the same "content" posted over and over again in a
multitude of venues?
~~~
feint
I agree - i removed the plugin. It worked better when most of the conversation
around my content happened on FriendFeed, where the conversation was much more
fractured. HN is different and FF is dead so I decided to remove it.
Thanks for your feedback
------
philk
I think the problem with these productivity methods isn't that it's bad to
track what you're doing but that:
a) They impose a mental tax on you; it's hard to get into a flow state when
you're busy thinking about whether you're doing what you should.
b) Make chores/minor tasks, etc., appear to be a good thing (after all, you're
doing _something_ productive) and idly staring into space a bad thing, even
though the latter enables you to recharge your batteries so you can focus more
intently on what's important. I think this is exacerbated because if you can't
think of what big important thing you're supposed to be doing right now it's
tempting to do something small just so you aren't "wasting time".
c) Also I've found that when I've done these things I wind up gaming the hell
out of them so that I end up looking good by whatever metric is measured
without actually achieving much more.
------
mikemainguy
Spoken like a young creative (at a startup? in the valley?) who is only
responsible to himself. Once you need to work as part of a team, time
management becomes important because you have to manage the interruptions +
coordination with other people who depend on each other to be productive.
Yes, however, time management and team coordination do add overhead. Teams,
however are much more scaleable that individuals. In addition, they are also
fault tolerant.
Put in hacker terms... a great programmer is an superfast solid state drive,
whereas a team is a raid 6 array with a bunch of disks that are slower and of
varying speeds.
Overall, the solid state disk might individually perform better (and possibly
be cheaper), but generally most people tend to agree the RAID array is a
better way to go if you can afford it.
~~~
feint
yes, im young and possibly creative (debatable) and do work at a startup...but
unfortunately not in the vallley.
I do manage a team (of 8) very creating and talented developers and designers.
I don't force my ideas on them - in fact i let them work however and whenever
they want.
The reason why I don't like time management - it focuses on time rather than
result. Tim Ferriss explains this much better than me. 80% of the work you do
will only result in 20% of the product. Therefore most of your time is
actually wasted. To fix this, one needs to focus on results and efficiency
rather than time. Pick the three most important tasks (which more often than
not aren't the most urgent, suprisingly) and tackle those.
------
rapind
Stop telling me what to do.
~~~
shimon
Right on. And stop assuming that the work habits you feel match your
personality and goals are fully generalizable.
~~~
diN0bot
> "If you’re boring, predictable and don’t enjoy having fun, then you should
> follow this advice."
and stop judging me.
~~~
feint
oh and btw, if you're worried my ideas threaten the concept of your app -
<https://procrasdonate.com/> \- don't worry they don't.
I think its an awesome app and has the potential to actually cause people to
do less auditing.
------
augustus
I agree.
What works for me as a programmer is to get into the zone as quickly as
possible. I like to set aside one day of the week to handle miscellaneous
tasks. Other days its all about the zone.
There is a story about Schwab (Carnegie Steel) hiring a consultant to gave him
the best productivity advice. The advice was to start with the most important
thing first. Stick with it and when its done move onto the next important
task.
Schwab loved the advice and promptly paid the consultant his fee. It worked
even then.
------
mtoledo
"You’ll end up spending your entire day “being productive” without actually
achieving anything."
Well, if you didn't achieve anything, you aren't really being productive.
I think a lot of people get confused between 'what you do' and 'how you do'.
Choosing the most important thing you need to do in the day first, or the 3
most important things you need done, etc is "what to do". When you have issues
with that you spend your day working in things that dont optimally lead you
towards your goals.
Doing it in the zone, at night while you spend the day on twitter or hacker
news, etc is 'how you do'. When people have issues with this they get to the
end of the day and notice the tasks they set up to do haven't been done to the
person's full potential.
Auditing your time and thinking 'should I really be doing this?' is a 'what to
do' tool. It has nothing to do with the fact you work at night or during the
day.
~~~
feint
"You’ll end up spending your entire day “being productive” without actually
achieving anything."
it was a pun (an oxymoron to be exact). Im sorry im so unfunny.
Whats wrong with doing things that don't lead you towards your goals?
------
bgray
This reminds me of another post which had a great quote, "Make Lists. Not Too
Much. Mostly Do."
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=989424>
------
btilly
The article missed the most important point, which is mental flow. If you are
engaged in anything complex then a certain amount of your job can only be done
when you have established a good mental flow. Tracking your time closely will
keep you from ever entering mental flow, and therefore blocks productivity.
Put into pg language, detailed time tracking only works for people on a
manager's schedule, and not those who are makers. See
<http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html> for an explanation of that.
~~~
mikemainguy
I disagree, part of the value of time tracking is that you can illustrate the
many distractions you have during a day and consciously block off time to get
into flow. Obviously this doesn't apply if you set your own priorities and
objectives, but often (in organizations bigger than 1) your priorities are set
or impacted by someone else's contribution.
~~~
btilly
That depends on how you do time tracking.
The most commonly described strategy is to write down what you are doing every
15 minutes. That definitely kills mental flow. A more useful one is to get a
Freshbooks account and track whenever you change tasks.
When someone talks about time tracking I usually assume they are talking about
something like the first strategy.
------
trapper
I'd like to know, does anyone actually do all these "productivity" methods?
I've never known anyone who tries all the things you read on blogs and sticks
with it for very long.
~~~
mstevens
I've stuck with a fair bit of Getting Things Done for a couple of years. And I
think it really helps me keep organised.
~~~
mschy
Me too.
I get a lot more done, and have a lot less stress.
------
Aegean
Really good point. By nature of my startup, I have to achieve highly complex
tasks in short time. These are heavyweight tasks that require high precision
design decisions and, I often find the following two things happen to me in
cycles:
1.) I feel highly motivated to achieve the task, and I become a very high
achiever. I finish a task in 2-3 days that would otherwise be achieved by
inefficient communication and discussion of a 5-employee team in a month. I do
this without feeling any obligation to do it and without thinking about
schedules, startup deliverables etc. I concentrate solely on the design
problem and the reward of achieving it. I feel rewarded when it is finished.
It feels like a celebration of the mind's capabilities.
2.) I look ahead and start planning about deliverables and deadlines. Since
the tasks are so overwhelming on their own, the overall project looks very
complicated. I feel overwhelmed, freaked out, and immediately stop having
progress. I also start to have stress-related health degradation signs, and I
get into an unproductivity cycle that is very hard to break.
I got this so many times that now I try hard to find ways to keep myself in
(1) without going into (2). I find that keeping my focus on the challenge but
not the time schedule helps. Think of it this way, if you stay in (1), you
will get very timely progress anyway, so no need to think about schedules and
deadlines.
It is also ironic how the same task may look so overwhelming and so much fun
in different perspectives. It is actually fun that becomes your hell when you
get schedules, deadlines, competitors and finance in the loop.
------
discojesus
"Honestly if you were to work like this you may as well work for a big
corporation where you can save yourself the hassle of having to audit your
time – as some jerk of a manager will do it for you."
Your managers have other crap to do than to watch what you're doing 24/7 (or
"8/5" for that matter) - they're much more likely to just hand you something
so they can get it off their own plate and just expect you to handle it.
" You’ll end up spending your entire day “being productive” without actually
achieving anything."
"Being productive" == achieving things. If you're not achieving something,
you're not being productive (either because you're not doing anything
[procrastination] or because you are doing the wrong things [i.e. your
priorities are not set properly])
"Rather than this stupid auditing crap, come up with 3 tasks that are most
important to your success. Do each one first thing in the day (my day is
backwards btw, as in my day starts at around 9pm at night, im a bit wierd).
Take a break in between each task and then feel free to procrastinate after."
This DOES NOT WORK. The only case in which this is a viable strategy is if you
work for yourself and have no hard deadlines and you just want to keep
yourself from reading reddit all day long - it doesn't work in most real-world
situations. Like for example, your boss puts another project on your plate.
But that never happens...
Take the advice of the late Randy Pausch - keep a time journal
[<http://www.scribd.com/doc/2519267/Time-Log-Sheet>], and REVIEW that data
(the data is useless if you just fill out time journals and let them sit in
some folder somewhere).
~~~
feint
"This does not work"? It works for me. and i think you missed the joke about
being productive and not achieving anything
~~~
discojesus
""This does not work"? It works for me."
Inheriting money might make someone a millionaire - that doesn't make "Have a
rich uncle" a viable financial plan. "Having a rich uncle" therefore "does not
work". The same goes for making a simple list of your three goals for the day
- for 99% of people, it just doesn't work because your simple plan is most
likely going to be blown to hell by some emergency/meeting/new project that
just landed on your plate. I believe you when you say that it works for you,
but it just doesn't work for the vast majority of people.
" i think you missed the joke about being productive and not achieving
anything"
I got the joke - you almost certainly meant that someone who is "being
productive and not achieving anything" is engaging in busywork but not doing
anything worthwhile, which would mean that they are active (i.e. they are not
procrastinating), but they are not properly prioritizing the actions they
take. I covered that case explicitly.
~~~
feint
I didn't say doing three things a day would work for everyone, but im willing
to put my name on the line by saying its more effective then auditing 100% of
your time. See this post: [http://blog.liferemix.net/lazy-
productivity-10-simple-ways-d...](http://blog.liferemix.net/lazy-
productivity-10-simple-ways-do-only-three-things-today) \- I take no credit
for the concept. Many smarter people have already shared this concept.
As per the joke - no im annoyed as I need to explain my pun. Obviously, its
impossible to be productive and not achieve anything. I was writing an
oxymoron (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron>) and also using satire to
bring to light, what I believe are flaws in common "productivity" knowledge.
Honestly, did I really need to explain this. anyone?
------
dchs
Everybody's different.
------
arnorhs
The main argument of this article seems to be that it is not fun to spend time
on what you should be doing... Actually, if you have two options, one is
something you should be doing, the other something you shouldn't, both are
fun.
Personally, I'd work on whatever I should be doing.... If it's as fun (or
serves my long-term objective, need, wants, better)
~~~
feint
no thats not the point - sorry if i didn't make it clearer. I love my job and
love working.
my point is people get too caught up on time tracking, goals, gtd etc. Im
wondering if they will look back in 5 years and go - sure I got things done,
but did I have fun?
------
socratees
Very truthful. Stop following what everyone does and create your own plan.
Besides, only you really know when you do your best, and you don't have to
audit 24 hours of your day.
Unearned guilt is a bad thing.
------
aditya
I know this has been asked before but are there other people that focus better
at night? Have you modified your sleep schedule to do this more? If so, how?
~~~
msie
My best hours are between 12am and 4am. It seems that I have unfortunately
fallen into a rhythm where my brain is ready to tackle programming around that
time. All other times I find it hard to concentrate when I have opportunities
to watch tv or walk around outside.
So my sleep schedule has adjusted to this. I sleep at 4am and wake up around
11am. You just have to be working late enough for so many nights for this to
happen. I think my biggest problem is working from home.
~~~
chewbranca
I used to be just like this, (and still am in some ways) where I am most
productive at night. I enjoy the peace and quiet when no one is around to
bother you. During the day there are endless distractions but at night that
all goes away. As I said, I used to be like this, now I have a baby and being
a night owl is no longer an option. I have been progressively migrating
towards starting my day at 7am, and I have to admit, I enjoy it. Yeah I've had
some great late night hacking sessions, but being able to start working early
and be done by 5 or 6 is very nice.
I find it much easier to separate work from home life when I start my day with
work, as opposed to spending all day knowing that at some point I will in fact
have to get to work. I've found that having things hang over my head like that
really messes with my motivations, I prefer to take the approach of work or
don't work, but nothing in between.
I also work from home, which is not only complicated by the fact that I have a
baby at home, but also that my office is sitting off in a corner in the living
room. The best solution I have found is to find a way to isolate yourself and
convince your mind that you are in the same mode as if you were working late
at night without anyone around. I have a nice pair of headphones that block
out most noise, and I purchased standing paper room dividers so I can 'shut'
my door and focus on work.
So while I've had a lot of fun being a night owl hacker, I find I live a more
balanced productive life getting work done first and early. As they say,
business before pleasure, with a personal corollary of don't combine the two.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rumor: iPad 2 is coming soon - _pius
http://kevinrose.com/blogg/2011/1/7/rumor-ipad-2-is-coming-soon.html
======
dorianj
Kevin Rose has a spotty track record for Apple predictions. See:
[http://www.technobuffalo.com/blog/apple/rumor-kevin-rose-
let...](http://www.technobuffalo.com/blog/apple/rumor-kevin-rose-lets-loose-
with-itv-details/)
"Digg co-founder Kevin Rose has a track record with announcing Apple products
that is spotty sometimes. Prior to the original iPhone he announced it would
have two batteries and run on both AT&T and Verizon. Yeah, we’re still waiting
on those tidbits. However, last year he predicted the iPod Nano down to the
last detail, so he has earned some street cred in the realm of Apple
predictions."
On new AppleTV: "iOS TV Applications: Expect to see an iPhone/Pad like
marketplace for television applications. Video sharing/streaming/recording
apps, interactive news apps, and of course games."
Front camera is a given, and a higher res screen is no surprise at all (though
full 300ppi would be), so this seems like a non-story.
------
Tycho
Surely Retina on a iPad sized screen would be rather too demanding for the
CPU?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Need some help with Ms Project 2010 - soho33
in my organization i've been put in charge to manage a group of around 45 people and give them some structure. currently projects come and go without any proper way of resource management.<p>i'm trying to use Ms Project to handle the situation.<p>these 45 people are spread into 5 different groups (QA, coding, designer, helpdesk, operations).<p>at any on point any of them could be working on multiple projects.<p>is the best way to handle this to create one project and treat all the projects these people are working on as "tasks" under the umberella project?<p>i would greatly appreciate some input.<p>thanks
======
phlux
First, the best ever PM book I have read is "How to cheat at IT project
management"
Second, you can set your users up in a global resources file and track their
availability across multiple project.
You could also get your hands on CBT Nuggets training - which is great.
You should _require_ your company to fund some training for you to succeed in
this position - CBT Nuggets training DVDs, Lynda.com account etc... are very
affordable - especially when you are tasked with tracking 45 people - that is
a hell of a lot of people to track if you are brand new to it.
To answer your question, you can click on RESOURCE tab, then NEXT OVER
ALLOCATION to have project check for over allocations to your staff
(RESOURCES)
Also, click on VIEW, then on RESOURCE USAGE to show the allocations of the
resources. It will give a summary as well as a detail of the items they are
assigned to.
Obviously, this is all predicated on accurate assumptions on your part as to
how long something takes.
What you may find easier at first, is to allocate resources to tasks at a
higher level in order to build out the project, for example, you may want to
assign the "IT TEAM" " _Setup Server Environment_ " as a multi day task, say
1W -- then assign "DEVELOPMENT TEAM" a multi day task, "SETUP DEV ENVIRON"
Then underneath these, break out the subtasks "SETUP WEB SERVER, 1-day" "SETUP
DB SERVER 1 day" etc...
Work your way through the tasks refining the time allocation each iteration,
based on input from the team.
You should save out these setup processes out to re-use them as you move
forward.
When you get status from a team member on the completion of an item, ask them
how long it actually took.
If they have 2 days allotted to setup a server, but they wait till the end of
the second day and the setup only takes 2 hours... you need to find that out,
and document it.
Ultimately, this will build an understanding of actual time costs for actions
and you'll be able to build out skeletal plans very easily and know when
others are making misstatements about durations...
Hope that helps.
Watch the lynda.com ms project vids - if you're in a crunch, PM me and Ill get
you them...
~~~
soho33
thanks for the detailed response. really appreciate it and i'm going to check
out the lynda.com videos tonight when i get home.
cheers
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Understanding Mathematical Notation as Code - mattdesl
https://github.com/Jam3/math-as-code#
======
j2kun
This is a nice little document, but you have to understand that mathematical
notation is syntactically closer to spoken language than to code, and it's
only expected to be semantically rigorous after context is taken into account.
------
brudgers
Ken Iverson's Turing essay was _Notation as a Tool of Thought_ [1]. Both his
languages, APL and J [2] were based on the idea of mapping mathematical and a
programming language. Iverson's _Math for the Layman_ presents that link
explicitly despite being an enjoyable read. [3]
[1]:
[http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm](http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm)
[2]: [http://www.jsoftware.com](http://www.jsoftware.com)
[3]: [http://www.cs.trinity.edu/About/The_Courses/cs301/math-
for-t...](http://www.cs.trinity.edu/About/The_Courses/cs301/math-for-the-
layman/)
------
hasenj
I've always thought (ever since university) that math notation should take
inspiration from code. Instead of writing Xi, they should really write X[i];
because Xi is ambiguous. I find that dealing with all the ambiguity in syntax
can be rather frustrating.
~~~
john_b
> _" Instead of writing Xi, they should really write X[i]; because Xi is
> ambiguous. I find that dealing with all the ambiguity in syntax can be
> rather frustrating."_
This is a feature of math, not a bug. The potential for ambiguity is the cost
that one pays to have a flexible and extensible notation which can be adapted
to concepts yet undiscovered. This is generally not the case with code [1].
When you are exploring new ideas you want the ability to redefine your
notation to match the nature and structure of the abstactions you are
examining.
There is a finite number of symbols in the set of all human languages, and
thus far we know of no reason that there should be a finite set of concepts in
mathematics. Enforcing a one-to-one mapping from a given sequence of symbols
to a given concept forces you to either limit the space of concepts you can
consider or to eventually deal with impractically large sequences of symbols
for relatively simple concepts.
[1] Yes, Lisp and DSLs are a thing, but you still have to define what a given
sequence of symbols means. In an interpreted language, the interpreter
computes the meaning using inputs and any necessary state. In math, the
meaning is necessarily dependent on context as well.
~~~
hasenj
> deal with impractically large sequences of symbols for relatively simple
> concepts.
I don't think they would ever have to be impractically large.
Right now they are just impractically weird.
------
kej
The part about using = for definition doesn't seem to reflect the way that
works in mathematics.
The mathematical meaning of _x = 2kj_ isn't var x = 2 * k * j but var x =
function(k, j) { return 2 * k * j; };
~~~
mattdesl
I'm working on improving this part; feel free to add more discussion here:
[https://github.com/Jam3/math-as-code/issues/17](https://github.com/Jam3/math-
as-code/issues/17)
------
refrigerator
I don't like being negative, but this seems really patronising and unhelpful.
Just because someone is a 'self-taught game/graphics programmer' doesn't mean
that describing maths concepts to them as code is at all intuitive, especially
for things relating to geometric concepts like vectors, for which a simple
diagram would speak volumes.
~~~
SEMW
I agree, sadly. I'm not sure anyone who didn't already understand vector
products is going to be helped by staring at "var rx = ay * bz - az * by; var
ry = az * bx - ax * bz; var rz = ax * by - ay * bx" (as opposed to, say, [0]).
Sure, it's precise and unambiguous, but it's missing the context that make it
possible for a human to actually understand what it is as opposed to just
calculating it (which the javascript interpreter is capable of doing fine on
its own).
To say nothing of "var determinant = require('gl-mat2/determinant');
determinant(matrix)"! I guess the point is to go read the source code of the
library, but I can't imagine many worse ways of learning linear algebra than
reading the source code of optimized linear algebra routines.
[0]
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Cross_pr...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Cross_product.gif)
~~~
mattdesl
The point is not to understand linear algebra in a few lines of code. The
point is to present the language of mathematics in another light; and
hopefully demystify intimidating-looking equations that often appear in
literature surrounding games, graphics and other fields of programming.
The audience is hobbyists and self-taught developers with no formal background
in mathematic notation. This audience might have no problem with a for loop,
but the Summation symbol is (literally) just Greek to them.
------
contravariant
Not sure if I agree with the statement that "=" is used for definitions. It's
true meaning is to simply state that two things are equal. I can see where the
confusion comes from since mathematicians have a tendency to just state "Let x
= 2kj", instead of the more explicit "Let us assume that the statement 'x =
2kj', is true". It's important to note the distinction though, since
introducing a new variable by simply stating it's properties is more powerful
than just defining it to be equal to something. For instance it's equally
valid to define a symbol x by simply stating "Let x∈A". This is used quite a
lot since anything you can then prove about "x" must automatically be true for
all elements of A.
~~~
arsenide
I like the idea of using the compound symbol ":=" for "is defined to be". So,
you can say something like "For x∈A, y := 2x". When I take math notes, it
helps a lot using this shorthand. I'm able to remove some ambiguity between
what is and is not a definition.
~~~
contravariant
I definitely agree with the use of ":=", but "=" simply doesn't mean the same
thing. For example, the similar statement "For x∈A, y = 2x" could even be
interpreted as using y to define x.
~~~
arsenide
I don't understand -- you say "=" and ":=" are not the same thing, but give an
example where they act the same?
Practically speaking, using ":=" removes any doubt when quickly skimming over
old notes. It is nice to be able to easily separate what is defined and what
is asserted in each of dozens of statements.
------
jwp729
Surprised there's no mention of the Curry-Howard correspondence between proofs
and programs.
~~~
mlitchard
Mention? The title led me to believe that was the topic.
------
aikah
Nice, it would make a great book : "Math for coders: from code to math
notation.". Seriously ;)
------
rectangletangle
This is amazing; It's always annoying having to Google arcane mathematical
notation, in order to translate something into code.
------
32h8
Math is pure = not mutable, and that code is mutable. Damn barbarians try to
desecrate math!
------
ilaksh
Math notation is just obfuscated code in a language that doesn't compile or
run.
~~~
paulmd
It's not really code - more of a pseudocode, because it leaves the details of
the implementation to the reader.
Might be what you were getting at with "doesn't compile or run".
------
bogomipz
This is neat. I hope to see more!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pay a visit to Cambridge’s computer museum - edward
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/08/28/pay-a-visit-to-cambridges-computer-museum/
======
SmellyGeekBoy
The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park is well worth a visit, too!
~~~
mothsonasloth
Yes go there but be aware of a slight subtlety.
Although the National Museum of Computing (TNMOC) is inside Bletchely park. It
is a different organisation.
TNMOC has all the interesting computers and the Bletchely park trust has the
land and buildings.
There is still a political battle going on between the two (which is sad).
They put fences around TNMOC as though to keep people from wandering in there.
\- I am a TNMOC member
~~~
shellac
Yep, those fences are awful. You need to essentially walk through a car park
and keep going to find TNMOC.
But it is wonderful. Far better than next door, to be honest.
------
gerjomarty
Well worth a visit if you're in or around Cambridge.
Huge props to the person in charge when we visited for letting us upstairs to
their usually closed storage space with hundreds of old games, magazines, and
boxes of old tech.
------
Steve44
I went 2-3 years ago and really enjoyed it, there is so much to see and they
have a lot of unusual exhibits.
My main gripe, which I did feed back at the time, was they had a wide
selection of vintage computers and consoles running but there were no
instructions. It’s a long time since I’d used any of them and had forgotten
much of even the basics,;they also had Spectrum with the SSD type libraries
but again no instructions on how to load and use the games. That meant you
could look at them, try and type a couple of things in and hope you get lucky,
then move on to the next item feeling frustrated.
The museum is continually evolving so I hope that something has been done to
help what I felt was a fairly big shortcoming. I appreciate it’s a lot of work
creating cue-cards for each one but as you’re encouraged to have a play around
it would greatly add to the experience.
~~~
fit2rule
I run a similar, albeit way smaller exhibit here in Vienna, and we are working
on small instruction booklets we can give visitors who want to type things in
and play with things .. perhaps I should make these available somehow when
we're finished.
That said, its quite an adventure to return to that era of computing and re-
discover all the old tricks. On some of these machines, there are even still
new graphics modes and other features being uncovered by avid hackers. 8-bit
machines are still alive!
------
n4r9
I visited several years ago, it's a real hidden gem. Spent a fun hour or so
implementing a prime sieve on a BBC BASIC computer - an adventure for someone
in their early thirties! My friend and I also banged our heads against that
old text-based Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy game, trying but failing to get
even as far as getting onto the space ship. At the other end of the spectrum
it was also my first experience of a VR helmet.
~~~
kitd
If you're in the Portsmouth, UK area, Portsmouth Museum also has a couple of
rooms given over to old games consoles from the 1980s onwards. Some are still
running and you can play on them.
~~~
n4r9
Amazing; I'm actually planning to be there in a few weeks so will check it
out. Thanks!
------
jslakro
Great! .. this make me think about a missing info on geek/nerd/techie
touristic points of interest, like that kind of destination you could include
when go on vacation with your family
~~~
twic
Wikivoyage has content that may be relevant to your interests:
[https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Science_tourism](https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Science_tourism)
See also the 'related topics' section.
I swear i came across a "tour guide for engineers" somewhere that was similar
to this, but i can't find it now.
------
pimlottc
Cambridge, UK. I clicked expecting Cambridge, Massachusetts. Whoops!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to get rid of a co-founder - naivedeveloper
Almost a year ago a friend and I started working on a company idea together. We decided to bootstrap the mvp, get it launched, and then see where to take it from there (probably continuing to bootstrap until it seemed viable as a real business).<p>I, being the programmer, of course had to build it, with my partner being the domain expert (and non-technical) would handle all business and marketing stuff. The understanding was that since we were building this on the side of our day jobs we would just work on it in each of our free times.<p>At first it went really well, my partner was engaged and got a lot done. After a few months, though, his enthusiasm fizzled. I myself took about a month and a half off from the project to focus on a talk I was giving, so I wasn't judging him harshly, but since that time he hasn't done very much. Some of the tasks we talked about him doing back in March still haven't been done, to my knowledge, at all. And where we used to talk about our company all of the time (again, we have been friends prior to this), we now never talk about it unless I bring it up.<p>I've tried a couple of times to give him outs; asking him when he'll have time to work on the project and (hoping he would say that he doesn't have time in the immediate future) wanting to bring up that maybe it's not a good time for him... but every time I've alluded to this he says that he's going to work on it tomorrow, or the day after that, but he never does.<p>At this point I don't know what to do. I feel like he still likes the idea of our company but doesn't want to put any work into it. I absolutely do not want to launch this product if I've done all of the work but do not have 100% equity. We've missed several soft deadlines because of this, and I find myself even slowing down because there's little for me left to do. I really want to go into crunch mode and finish the mvp off before it gets to a year, but the situation with my co-founder is hanging over my head.
======
KirinDave
You need to be honest with your project partner and stop being so passive
aggressive. Say, "You're not pulling your weight, you haven't done these
things that you're supposed to do, and I've been continuing to work on the
project. You can decide now: are you going to work on this or are we going to
dissolve the partnership."
This is not being an asshole. This is being real and drawing a boundary beyond
which you can no longer be taken advantage of.
The optimum result is they agree to leave the partnership. But either you need
to eject this person from a project you want to continue to devote time to, or
you need to move on to the next project. Your current situation is untenable.
------
tptacek
What's your vesting plan? Please say you have one: if not, you can't safely
pivot without your soon-to-be-former partner, because everything you do going
forward will be tainted by the partnership.
I have been in legal drama over these issues before. It is not fun.
If your partnership isn't well documented, _you_ should consider walking away
from the work, including all the code.
People on HN have talked about how vesting is unfair. But this situation is
the problem it protects you from. If a partner refuses sane standard vesting,
run, don't walk.
~~~
siegel
The only concern here is that they likely have a partnership, legally, and
each partner owes a fiduciary duty to the other. He can walk, for sure, but my
guess is the co-founder will claim he was frozen out and, if OP is successful,
will sue for breach of fiduciary duty (and other things).
~~~
tptacek
My bigger concern would be that he pivots, takes the code with on the pivot,
finds success, and 6 years later when he's about to sell his cofounder returns
claiming 50% of the proceeds are owed to him.
~~~
siegel
We're basically talking about the same thing. But, yes, you are 100% correct
about the likely danger in trying to use the code in the future. That's why I
think the cleanest thing to do (if at all possible), if he wants to make
something of this, is to offer the guy a small equity stake in whatever entity
is created to do this work and get a release.
I've been involved with lawsuits over the exact type of situation. Maybe the
OP could win, but it will be a costly process...
~~~
naivedeveloper
Thanks for your (and everyone else who has commented here) advise. I think the
approach I am going to take is to see if he's willing to sign an agreement to
dissolve our partnership, giving me 100% of the company. If he really has just
grown tired of it, as I suspect, I think he might do this. If he's not willing
I'm going to try some type of buyout, payable once revenues can pay for it.
Then I'll offer a small stake as a last resort. If he's unwilling to accept
that then I guess I'll just have to quit the company. I really don't want to
do that, I've spent so much time on this :( . But I'm also not willing to keep
working on it without my fair share of the company; I'd rather start from
scratch again on a different idea.
------
jakobegger
It sounds like you've already made up your mind -- now it's time to take
action. Stop "alluding" to things. Don't expect people to read your thoughts.
Tell your cofounder that you'd prefer to work on the idea on your own, and if
he agrees, ask him to sign an agreement.
If he's your friend, and if he doesn't care much about the project anyway,
that shouldn't be an issue.
If your friend doesn't want to agree to that, one thing you could offer is a
mutual agreement to license all existing ideas and code to eachother, allowing
each one of you to pursue the project on their own with new partners.
~~~
naivedeveloper
Thanks for your reply. I haven't made up my mind. I'd much prefer to pursue
this with someone else rather than on my own. But I can't _make_ him be
motivated. Aside from asking him what he's gotten done, what can I do? If
anyone has suggestions here I'd be very grateful.
All of your other advise is excellent. I think this is exactly what I should
do, if it comes to that.
~~~
cookiecaper
I suggest you work to understand his frame of mind and act accordingly. If he
wants to make valuable contributions that you believe are needed but just
needs his life to be reshuffled to make it happen, you should consider how you
can help accommodate those changes.
If he truly is not interested anymore, guide your conversations in that
direction without stating your intention to exclude him overtly. You want him
to talk until he comes to his own realization that he shouldn't be involved
anymore. That's the only way this will occur without his feeling that he was
violently pushed out. You have to make this easy, and you have to make it feel
like he made the choice, or at least made his own bed, not that you're cutting
him off unfairly.
------
nandorsky
Is your company generating revenue? Is it worth anything? Unless you're
talking about equity split in a company that is worth millions engaging with a
lawyer is a waste of money.
I wouldn't even waste time trying to re-engage him. If it's this early in the
game and he is already checked out and it will only get worse. Sure, he may
re-engage for a little but he'll go back to his ways in a matter of time.
You have the upper hand as the technical co-founder. If you leave he has
nothing. Tell him you're out and go start another company. Ideas are a dime a
dozen, the value is in the execution.
~~~
bmh_ca
> Unless you're talking about equity split in a company that is worth millions
> engaging with a lawyer is a waste of money.
I disagree. The company doesn't need to be worth money now for engaging with a
mediator or getting legal advice to have value.
For example, a proper Full and Final Release, mutually agreed upon, can not
just save you a fortune in future litigation, it can free you to seek
investment in a future venture without the fear or need to disclose past
stakeholders, and give peace of mind to work knowing that it won't be derailed
by skeletons in the closet.
The spectre of litigation can at-best cloud your optimism, at worst undermine
your prospects; it can be a weight upon your every move.
As time passes, the natural human bias is to over-value their past
contributions, and undervalue the past contributions of others. The longer the
time passes, the greater the bias. If you succeed, the more likely they are to
demand what they feel they deserve, from their perspective.
They might be the type of personality to let it go; but if they are litigious,
it's better to know it before there's real money on the table. If they're not
litigious, they won't mind signing a release or making a deal.
Every situation is different, but getting legal advice isn't just about the
money at current value, it's about the price of potential litigation, your
peace of mind and ability to produce in the future, and the cost of the
spectre.
~~~
naivedeveloper
Thanks, you and others have said similar things. I think how I should pursue
this now is to:
1\. Give him a little time to turn things around. Be perfectly clear about the
expectations and keep asking him about his progress.
2\. If he still doesn't seem motivated, try to convince him that it's better
if we separate. Draw up a letter of separation and get him to sign it.
3\. If he refuses to do that, try a buyout as dsr_ suggested.
4\. Worst case, offer some small stake.
I'm really hopeful (1) happens but this gives me a plan to try and resolve
this quickly if it doesn't. Grateful for everyone's advise here!
------
scandox
When I was about 27 and had my own business I sat next to a billionaire at
some charity dinner (in Ireland this can happen fairly easily - not because of
the number of billionaires - which is low - but because of the tiny social
scene).
Anyway he asked me about my business. Then he said: "Do you have a business
partner?".
I said "Yes I do".
He said "Get rid of them".
~~~
gtf21
What is this anecdote supposed to tell the OP? I can only assume that the
intent is to imply a link between this man's advice and his wealth, but data
isn't the plural of anecdote.
~~~
scandox
Well I'm just relaying the advice of a somewhat successful man, which I didn't
take. But to expand I think what he meant was if you're confident that you can
do it and you mean to do it, then don't halve the responsibility. Take it all.
~~~
gtf21
I really don't agree. I'm pretty confident in my ability to do what I do, but
having a cofounder has given me a useful critic (amongst other things). Having
gone through this stuff, I would have wanted to have done it on my own. *
> just relaying the advice of a somewhat successful man
This is a fallacy. Unless it's backed up by really good reasoning, I wouldn't
take someone's advice seriously _simply because_ s/he has been successful at
_something_. There are too many factors at play and way too much context to
make it meaningful unless it obviously translates to the situation at hand. I
can't think of a plausible reason why having a business partner is, 100% of
the time, a bad thing (which is what is suggested in this anecdote).
* caveats: "having a cofounder" is obviously not a panacea, and may not be a good thing if you don't have the right relationship (which seems fairly clear from the OP)
~~~
scandox
I'm not arguing. I'm "relaying". He's more successful than I am. He gave me
the advice. Looking back I regret not taking it for a variety of reasons.
Everybody's going to be different.
------
mod
> I absolutely do not want to launch this product if I've done all of the work
> but do not have 100% equity.
You haven't done all of the work.
Given that the technical work is not complete, I'm not sure it's really a big
deal that the non-technical work is not complete. You haven't given us an idea
of how much non-technical work remains.
Get the MVP ready, and then if your partner is not ready, ask him for a
timeline or something. Let him know your concerns.
Quit thinking about "getting rid of him," it's very premature.
~~~
naivedeveloper
I don't know how much non-technical work remains. If I knew that, then that
would mean that I'm in charge of both technical and non-technical work, with
him acting as an employee and not a co-founder. That I can't count on him to
"own" his area within the company is precisely the problem.
~~~
weego
That's not what knowing implies. Why don't you know? You claim to be committed
to your idea yet only know half of what is going on and thus only half of what
it is going to take to launch?
If you're so keen to get rid of him why do you not already know what he's not
doing and needs to do?
How will getting rid of him help you if even you don't know what you need to
do to make this work?
There's 2 of you, you don't have and can't afford to have silos yet.
Naive developer indeed
~~~
naivedeveloper
I know some of what he's not doing, because it's things we've been talking
about for several months. But of course I don't know every single non-
technical requirement. Isn't the point of having a partner to split up the
work? If I did all the research into what legal requirements we have within
our field, etc. then I'd be doing all of the work, instead of just most of it.
------
skraelingjar
I can empathize, OP. I started a company with a good friend almost a year ago.
I run tech, he does business. A few months in, and I moved 1000 miles away and
have been building a client base on my end, while he has done nothing to help
us grow in his location. However he has done his part outside of that. We had
a frank discussion and decided while we're happy to work together, this isn't
something he's interested in pursuing. I paid him back everything he's
invested in the business. We agreed that instead of splitting it 50/50 I would
pay him a flat fee to continue what he's doing while I take the rest. Keep in
mind we're doing less than $20k/yr in sales. I considered removing him from
the legal structure but it's not worth my time.
Like with any relationship, you need to talk about it with your friend. Not
what you've done by "alluding to it", but by being straightforward. "You don't
seem interested in our company. I don't want to continue like this. Is it time
for you to leave the company?" Yes it may be a difficult discussion but can it
really be worse than what you're putting yourself through right now?
~~~
naivedeveloper
Thank you, glad to hear others have been here before. That sounds like exactly
what I should do, I even like the way that you phrased it.
In your situation did you write up a partner termination agreement?
~~~
skraelingjar
No, I couldn't be bothered. It was essentially a handshake deal. Sure, I'm not
protected legally, but there's no way this company is going to make a huge
amount of money. We've been friends for almost 10 years, I doubt he would do
anything to jeopardize the business.
We have to refresh our paperwork with the state this September and I'll either
remove him then or dissolve that business and incorporate solo in the state I
have moved to.
------
redm
Co-founding a startup (or with multiple partners) is a very personal thing.
People get emotional about it and there's almost always someone working
harder, which causes discontent to grow over time. Eventually, you have to
split or the party who provided more substance feels cheated. To make things
worse, the value is often very subjective.
There's no easy way to handle this. It sounds like you are going to move on
without him so just tell him that, offer him a small piece of the business and
take the rest. If he doesn't want to cooperate, you can always just start a
new entity and continue on your own.
Co-founder choice is the hardest and most impactful choice a startup can have.
At a minimum, I try to craft an MOU that states what each person's
responsibilities are, and that they contribute meaningfully over a 3 year
vesting period. That ensures if either partner drops out, they transfer the
equity to the partner continuing forward. That said, because of aforementioned
reasons, even that is a mine-field.
------
cocktailpeanuts
It doesn't sound like you actually have a "company". Or do you?
If you didn't incorporate yet, then you owe each other nothing. Maybe your
friendship will end, but that's still separate from an actual business.
Then again, I don't know if you yourself are that committed either. A month
and a half off from work to prepare a speech means you're not fully committed.
If this was because he's not doing much work either and you got demotivated
because of that, then this entire relationship is a cancer and you should
break up as soon as possible because it sounds like you will be more motivated
without him.
~~~
naivedeveloper
Thanks for your reply. No, we do not have a company. We delayed incorporating
to avoid expenses before the product was ready. Now that the product is close
to being ready I'm fine with incorporating, but don't want to do so if my co-
founder isn't invested.
> Then again, I don't know if you yourself are that committed either. A month
> and a half off from work to prepare a speech means you're not fully
> committed.
No, that was simply a mistake. I'm not going to take on any such side
commitments for the foreseeable future. I recognized the mistake and course-
corrected.
~~~
cocktailpeanuts
If you really did make up your mind, I suggest you first talk to a lawyer
about your potential decision.
Then when all things are clear from the legal side, first try to get this to
work (if you still have any hope for this guy). Sit down with him and honestly
talk about what you have in mind, and tell him you want to make this work. And
make him commit to several things by certain time.
Or you could just tell him you want to split up. (Again, after talking to a
lawyer).
You wrote 100% of your code and there was no legally binding document that
transfers your ownership so I think it should be fine, but really really I
suggest you talk to a lawyer if you are serious about this business. It's
worth the money.
------
jkaarma
With my startup just last week we concluded a deal where one ot he co-founders
lost his substantial stake in the company and retained a very small percentage
of the company. We've been working on the company full time for a year now.
The mistake we made was that we didn't make a shareholder agreement in the
beginning when we started out that would clearly outline the responsibilities
of each person and what they would have to do in order to keep their equity
stake. As the company has evolved it has become clear that one of the founders
is holding too much equity compared to the value he is creating for the
company. Thanks to our investors we came to an agreement where he was bought
out and retained only a small stake in the equity and is staying on part time
and there's no bad blood. However if we had created a SHA in the beginning
then it would have been very easy now to just legally take away his equity and
go forward. So definitely make sure founders' responsibilities are outlined in
a legally binding way before you get in business. However from what you're
saying I would suggest that you don't get into business in the first place
because everything about your company is still ahead basically and if you're
getting into with someone who is showing lack of commitment already then it's
most likely only gonna get worse in the future. If you own everything about
the product already then just take it and walk away.
~~~
naivedeveloper
If you don't mind, what is the percentage that you gave him? Part of my really
hates the idea of giving any stake, but if that's what it takes...
------
Kequc
It depends what you've signed, and what what you've signed says. All good
contracts describe what happens in the worst case scenario and backwards from
there. If it isn't one of those contracts it depends on the court, if it went
to court. I'd imagine since it isn't yet earning money it wouldn't go to court
soon.
It might be a good idea to seek a lawyer for a sit-down, that will cost you a
little bit of money but they can give you a better overview of your situation.
Send all paperwork you have ahead of the consultation.
It could boil down to be as simple as discussing the issue openly with him.
That you want to keep working on it and that if he doesn't, would he mind
signing it (whatever it is) over to you. If so, it's easy.
No matter what happens, if you feel that he is isn't the best partner to have
on the project it's going to be easier to deal with now than it will be the
longer you leave it.
------
djrogers
Sounds like you don't have an equity plan yet - I'd start by proposing one to
him. Propose a 50/50 split, but between technical and non-technical, then
explain that if you need to add an additional non-techincal founder it will
have to come out of his 50%.
This conversation can lead a number of good places - 1) he gets motivated and
things go back to the way they were at the beginning, 2) he agrees to add a
third person and split his share, 3) he decides to walk away, perhaps with a
small share of equity for work already done.
------
rdli
In any startup, it's crucial that founders have open lines of communication.
There are a lot of decisions to be made, frequently under stress and with
imperfect information, and you need to be able to communicate to figure things
out.
So, I'd say that 1) you need to sit down with your co-founder and talk about
things and 2) if this is going to be a long-term thing, you both need to spend
a bunch of time upfront talking about your communication styles and commit to
open lines of communication.
------
smt88
Stop communicating with him via phone or in-person. All of your communications
need to be email/SMS/chat, which will provide documentation in case of a legal
dispute.
Then talk to a lawyer.
------
dsr_
Offer him a buyout based on the first year's revenues. Or a flat fee, but
delayed until you have revenue to pay for it. Or anything, really, but make it
clear that you don't think he's as committed as you are to this, and you want
to take the risk and gather the reward.
And if he says no, dissolve the whole thing and go find something else to work
on. Odds are good you would have pivoted to something else anyway.
~~~
naivedeveloper
That's a great idea, thanks for it.
------
kkotak
If you think the project is still viable, has potential to make money, and you
can find another non-tech partner - Draw up a contract rewarding him fairly
with equity for the work done. Move on. A reasonable new partner should/will
understand and appreciate your fair, mature way to get out of a difficult
situation and pushing on and you both will stay out of future litigations.
------
jpn
I really like the Dynamic Equity Split paradigm. Essentially, it comes down
to:
1\. Recording the contributions of each founder. 2\. Assigning weights to the
contribution. 3\. Distributing equity based on the totals.
Check out this video for more detail:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7kgEbXmBFc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7kgEbXmBFc)
------
siegel
Clearly you need to create an entity and assign your IP to it. But the
question is what his role will be, if any, or if he will get an equity in this
new entity.
Is there ANYTHING of value he contributed? If so, would you be willing to give
him a small equity stake in the new entity for him to walk away? That's the
cleanest thing to do.
------
19eightyfour
I would just like to point out the following that might help you. You say you
haven't decided to split or not, yet your question clearly specifies the
split. You're simply asking how to do it. Could this be telling?
It's always hard to make a break.
------
dyeje
Like most things in life, this is a situation best handled with a frank
conversation.
------
magicsquare15
Good question. I'm dubious of partnerships for this reason.
------
sogen
Get new website, pivot, forget about old website.
~~~
smt88
...unless that's something OP could be sued for. There's no way to know
without reviewing the communications and agreements (either verbal or written)
between the two founders.
Which, again, is why it's insane to try to get legal advice from internet
strangers.
~~~
nandorsky
You need money to sue. Unless the company is worth millions it would be
financially irresponsible to sue over something that has no value.
~~~
smt88
OP is pursuing this because he expects the company to have value someday,
which means the potential for a lawsuit is a problem.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Chrome extension for GitHub - Cereal
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/github-text-search/pligfddkdofoidbejpmjimcjfdkjlcem
======
Cereal
The code is available on GitHub at
[https://github.com/Cereal84/github_text_search_chrome_ext](https://github.com/Cereal84/github_text_search_chrome_ext)
For anything (bug, feature, etc) please contact me here or opening some issue
on project's page.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017 - kenrick95
http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/
======
flurdy
Shows you effects of the echo chamber you are in, as I was very surprised that
Scala was only at 3.6%, and beaten by Go at 4.3 and Swift at 6.5% in the
programming language section.
The self-selection of people I follow on Twitter, the meetups and conferences
I attend, the choice of companies and colleagues I have worked with, etc,
probably just reinforce my blinkered echo chamber. This is probably true for
many Haskell, Rubyist, Go people and others as well.
By heart, I would have guessed 20% Scala usage, but in my head, I do know of
the floods of javascript misuse across the world, the legions of java
developers in every country and location, having been one myself once. And I
guess my current location of London which I feel use Scala more than most
places and mixing a lot with startups does affect my expectations of what
everyone else use elsewhere.
[[http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#technology-
pr...](http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#technology-programming-
languages)]
~~~
peterjlee
Visual Studio is the most used IDE and somehow I don't know a single person
who uses Visual Studio.
[http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#technology-
mo...](http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#technology-most-popular-
developer-environments-by-occupation)
~~~
thirdsun
Not only that, but it seems to be most used IDE in the web development
category. I had to make sure they didn't mean Visual Studio Code, which
appeared a few positions further down though.
------
matt_s
I think there is severe bias in their results simply because of the content in
stack overflow and the people that visit.
For example, the data on a lot of developers only having 1-3 years of
programming experience. That would naturally follow that a majority of active
users on a Q&A site would not have much experience, right?
Same can be said for data about what technologies are represented - JavaScript
was at the top of "Most Popular Technologies". There is a lot of churn in JS
frameworks... which probably leads to a lot of questions for inexperienced
programmers... which would visit the site more frequently.
There definitely are some good results in there - I would just take anything
regarding popularity with a grain of salt. I also suspect the population of
people taking the survey don't fully represent all software developers
equally. People that are in a stable role using "unpopular" or proprietary
technology have no use for stack overflow.
~~~
Kiro
I agree. Anecdotal but I used to visit SO all the time during my first years
as a programmer compared to now where I only need it occasionally. It was also
a long time ago I posted an actual question.
~~~
steveklabnik
> It was also a long time ago I posted an actual question.
This doesn't necessarily mean it's about your experience, that is, as more and
more questions are asked and answered, it is more likely that an answer
already exists, so you don't need to ask a new question.
------
aedron
I think the survey makes a very fundamental mistake in chucking a lot (the
majority) of developers under the umbrella 'web developer'. I know they also
had subdivisions (frontend, backend, full stack), but in the entire survey
they are represented as one category.
Those are fundamentally different roles. Someone working exclusively on
server-side applications has a totally different profile than someone working
exclusively with web frontend. Concepts, technologies, tools, everything
differs, and so probably does the personal profile of those developers.
------
manaskarekar
_Most Loved Language:_ Rust
_Most Wanted Language:_ Python
It's good to see these two languages win out these categories! Good things lie
ahead (hopefully).
~~~
atulatul
Wikipedia updated with 2017 results:Rust won first place for "most loved
programming language" in the Stack Overflow Developer Survey in 2016 and 2017.
Love the site.
------
SiVal
I'm surprised to see "platforms" as Win: 41%, Desktop Linux: 33%, Mac: 18.4%.
Presumably this question was about the machine you use to develop software on.
The reason I'm surprised has nothing to do with any advocacy. It's just that
whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference in the US (Web, for
example), it looks as though fewer than 1/5 of the machines are NON-Macs,
while the answer to the question above is the inverse: fewer than 1/5 of devs
use Macs. (Though multiple answers were allowed this still says that fewer
than 1/5 use Macs.)
So, I'm wondering: Are StackOverflow and US dev conf attendees significantly
different groups? (Ex: SO hobbyists very different from conference pros?) Or
do devs usually install Desktop Linux on Mac hardware, and I don't realize
that half of the Macs laptops I see are running Linux? Or do people use PC
desktop hardware for development but use Mac laptops for portable use (ex:
attending a conference, but they would still qualify as Mac users)? Or are all
of the non-US conferences solid walls of PC hardware with so few Macs that
they overwhelm the Mac usage in the US? Or have things changed significantly
in the past few years? (I haven't been to a dev conference for a while.)
Or what? Presumably all of the above to some extent, but am I missing
something big?
~~~
kbart
Developers that attend conferences in USA are very small and biased subset of
total developers worldwide. For vast majority of developers attending a
conference in USA would cost few to several months worth of salary, so it's no
brainer. Not to mention bullish USA border controls that makes people
(especially non-white) think twice before traveling. I haven't seen many
developers using Macs outside of USA and few Western Europe countries.
~~~
shagie
The big / national tech conferences - yes. They are expensive. There are many
local or regional ones that are much less expensive.
I'm heading to a regional one in August that is registered as a nonprofit and
is less than a week's salary to attend (and I work in the public sector in the
Midwest so don't think that this is big left cost salary).
That said, even with a strong Microsoft bend to many session technologies,
macs still are several times more frequent than non-mac.
~~~
kbart
Plane tickets, travel, hotel, catering alone can easily add up to few thousand
dollars.
~~~
shagie
For the regional one I go to (That Conference), its about an hour each way.
$10 in gas/day or so? Since its close enough for a long commute, I don't have
to worry about a hotel (or plane tickets).
Since the conference isn't trying to pull in big bucks (its a break even -
501.C non profit even), attendee costs for 2017 are $425 (food included - and
they don't skimp on food). Even if you're going to add on the hotel the
conference is located in, its only $175. Toss in a plane ticket and it is
probably _still_ less expensive than the national ones for the "get in the
door" ticket.
There are lots of regional or local conferences that are not absurd in
pricing.
For another example of an upcoming local one:
[https://stirtrek.com](https://stirtrek.com) which is a one day $99 one. Its
draw is likewise local.
Yea, NoFluff is $1000 to walk in the door for two days. I'm very glad that
there are others that are closer in line with not needing to drain the
training budget to go to.
------
markatkinson
It is weird being a "desktop application" and mobile developer and knowing
that 70% of developers do something that I am completely unfamiliar with.
Web development to me feels like the Boneyard from the Lion King. This shadow
land that I am too terrified to enter into, and I have no idea why I feel this
way. It also bugs me like it might be a huge shortcoming at some point in my
life that I have no grasp of it.
~~~
k__
With me it's the other way around.
I can do almost anything I need with Web tech.
Desktop or even native mobile development seems to be like going back to the
last century.
I'm doing a native mobile project next month, and looking at the stuff a iOS
dev needs to get going is horrible.
~~~
mbel
> Desktop or even native mobile development seems to be like going back to the
> last century.
The funny thing is that looking from the opposite perspective I feel the same.
The web development looks like going back to beginnings of programming and
reinventing everything again in the browser. You know, like when you read
about 'tree shaking' being cutting edge technology in JavaScript land, then
look at definition to realize that it's just dead code elimination that has
been done by linkers & compilers for ages.
~~~
k__
You're right, these optimisations are missing and all the fancy autocomplete
of the IDEs for typed languages that are used on the desktop are missing, too.
I don't know, maybe it just seems better to me, because I'm doing Web for so
long now.
When I see desktop/mobile with Qt, Java or C#, I see huge IDEs, runtime
environments and SDKs and with iOS even vendor lock-in, simulators and
whatnot.
When I see Web with JavaScript, I see tiny editors, browsers that are already
installed on every machine and bring all the SDKs and runtime environments,
fast iterations, a good package system and general simplicity.
------
provemewrong
Some observations.
Wouldn't have thought of built-in help as a popular (47.1%) way of teaching
yourself.
Oracle usage only 16.5%, but I guess it makes sense considering the web
developer proportion.
CoffeeScript as the third most dreaded language, behind only two instances of
Visual Basic. But reading the definition of "dreaded" in makes more sense.
Sharepoint as the most dreaded platform, ha ha, no surprise there.
Clojure as the top paying tech worldwide, wow. But missing entirely from the
list in US, UK, Germany, France sections, so where are all the Clojure devs?
In general that's... comforting, if only there were any Clojure shops in my
country (okay, admittedly I've heard about one startup using it).
~~~
skrebbel
> Wouldn't have thought of built-in help as a popular (47.1%) way of teaching
> yourself.
The built-in help for eg Java, C# or Delphi is amazing. It starts with
autocomplete, then a tooltip with a summary, and full details including
examples are just an F1 away.
------
stephenr
I can't find the actual questions, so if anyone can reference them it may help
to understand the answers more.
The "platform" part is at best ambiguous and at worst white noise.
It covers mobile & desktop OS's, "cloud" providers - both IaaS like AWS/Azure
& SaaS like Salesforce - hardware platforms like Raspberry Pi and Arduino,
buzzwords like "Serverless" and mainframe.
Apparently all of those things represent a "platform" that is in some way
comparable, but Linux, BSD and Windows servers do not.
The "most popular languages" shows Javascript as the most popular with
Sysadmin/DevOps.
I'm going to just assume the people answering subscript to the idea that
"DevOps === Developers Doing Ops" (aka NoOps). I'm pretty confident _actual_
Sysadmins don't use/prefer Javascript more than anything else.
~~~
dagw
_I 'm pretty confident actual Sysadmins don't use/prefer Javascript more than
anything else._
I think that question was multiple choice. My guess is that most sysadmins use
their favorite language and a bit of JavaScript when they have to, and since
they all have different favorite languages javascript ends up 'winning'
~~~
stephenr
> most sysadmins use their favourite language and a bit of JavaScript
I think more likely is that every nodejs developer considers themselves
"devops".
------
ljw1001
I found it fascinating that Smalltalk was #2 as most loved language in spite
of its minimal use. Many of the ideas developed for Smalltalk are now
commonplace, so I'm guessing that it's the careful integration of those ideas
that makes it special.
It is my favorite language, btw. :)
~~~
m0sa
Probably because it (still) pays so well? [1]
[1]: [http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#work-
salary-a...](http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#work-salary-and-
experience-by-language)
~~~
travmatt
I saw that too and wondered if it wasn't an artifact of history - when I think
of smalltalk I think of peter norvig and people of his stature. Maybe the high
smalltalk developer salary means it's probably used by older and very
experienced developers.
------
andy-wu
We will publish additional analysis related to respondents’ disability status in the coming weeks.
As a student with a severely limiting physical disability, I'm looking forward
to this. I'm really interested to see what roles those in my position are in.
~~~
GuiA
Would love to read about your experiences, if you are willing to share :)
------
ihsw2
Is gender and ethnic background of developers relevant?
~~~
tclancy
Of course it is. Homogeneity is dangerous for an ecosystem and even if it
weren't, not all apps, websites, products of code are consumed by straight
white guys living on the US coasts. A mix of perspectives is a healthy thing.
~~~
justaman
I like to think that since white guys are generally the most universally hated
group by other race\gender combo's, white guys just dont really care who you
are as long as you get the job done. Thats why they have the lowest interest
in diversity.
~~~
ihsw2
That's blatantly racist.
~~~
justaman
Its really not. Care to explain why?
------
gtrubetskoy
> "We estimate that 16.8 million of these people are professional developers
> and university-level students."
I wonder if it is relatively safe to infer from this that there are ~16.8
million developers in the world? Are there developers who never visit
stackoverflow? I'd expect that number to be higher, even though 16.8M is a
lot.
Also if you take all "years since learning to code" up to "9-10", they add up
to 50.6%, which means that the developer population doubles every ~10 years.
Though I have heard elsewhere (I think it was a talk by "uncle Bob") that the
developer population doubles every 5 years, not 10.
Edit: Ha, interestingly his data was also based on stackoverflow:
[http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-
bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html](http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-
bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html) ...now does this mean the rate of growth is
slowing?
~~~
vmasto
Note that this data excludes the vast majority of Chinese software engineers
(they represent just 0.4666% of the total survey responders)
------
aedron
Most loved platform:
...
iOS (62%)
Android (61.6%)
...
Most wanted platform:
Android (20.6%)
...
iOS (13.2%)
Android and iOS neck-a-neck for currently used, but Android far ahead as
future platform?
------
amelius
Some things that stand out:
\- The "web" is not a platform?
\- France pays $10k less than Germany? US pays twice that of Europe?
\- People who work for a small company usually have many roles, so asking
people to pick their role in a single-choice way seems not right.
~~~
hoschicz
> \- France pays $10k less than Germany? US pays twice that of Europe?
Yes, France has higher taxation and politically leans left, even compared to
Europe. That's weighted out by strong labor laws.
------
erikb
About the "ship it (optimize later)" point: The interpretation seems to
completely opposite to the data. It seems most people seem to disagree with
it.
It's also most reasonable from experience. Everybody experience stuff that is
supposed to be optimized later but then never gets revisited until it's
rewritten completely 20 years later (again with the idea to just ship it of
course).
------
randomname2
Surprisingly a full 2.6% of Stack Overflow visitors identify as non
male/female, of which a 0.5% transgender. Both numbers much higher than those
for the general population.
It would be interesting to see more information about this, looking forward to
the follow-up article: "We will publish additional analysis related to
respondents’ gender identities in the coming weeks."
~~~
pluma
Based on my experience both in developer communities and outside of them, I
don't find that surprising. While it is evidently true that there are
disproportionately more men in tech, it also seems to be true that there are
more queer/trans/non-conforming people in tech.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers are actually higher: assuming the
choices are exclusive, the way they are worded it's not clear how transgender
is intended to be represented in the results. Not everyone who is transgender
sees their "trans" status as a distinct gender identity (i.e. the emphasis in
"trans-woman" or "trans-man" doesn't have to fall on the "trans" aspect). I
think a clearer distinction would have been a separate question "my gender
identity matches the gender I was assigned at birth" (instead of
distinguishing between male, female and "trans") but that might have
overcomplicated things.
~~~
k__
Yes, most female developers I know are trans women.
------
tannhaeuser
The "Years of coding experience" statistics are interesting in a number of
ways IMHO. Is there an interpretation why it doesn't go down linearly, but has
up and down micro-cycles? Is the bump at "more than 20 years" of coding
experience just an artifact of not assessing answers with over 20 years of
experience at finer granularity?
~~~
pc86
> Is the bump at "more than 20 years" of coding experience just an artifact of
> not assessing answers with over 20 years of experience at finer granularity?
I would think so. If someone started a programming job right out of school
(~22 years old), and is still programming today, that would be any developer
who is ~43 or older. I would say at least 1/4-1/3 of my former and current
colleagues would fall into that age bracket. Not all of them started
programming out school but many of them did for sure.
------
mherrmann
I wonder why age was not included?
------
johnlbevan2
Suggestion: Add automated machine info collection to the Developer Survey
A suggestion to improve the amount of data available in future surveys without
adding to the manual collection effort, provide a facility to automatically
collect workstation/environment info in a parsable format for consumption by
the survey:
[https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/345859/361842](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/345859/361842)
------
raulk
The "languages over time" section [1] is overrepresenting Javascript. It shows
separate charts for JS and node.js, when the latter is not a language but a
runtime environment.
I would love to see the chart for Go instead of Javascript twice.
[1] [http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#technology-
la...](http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#technology-languages-
over-time)
------
eddd
How is it possible that
"When we asked respondents what they valued most when considering a new job,
53.3% said remote options were a top priority. A majority of developers,
63.9%, reported working remotely at least one day a month, and 11.1% say
they’re full-time remote or almost all the time."
And only a few percent of companies hires remote?
~~~
wyldfire
The most likely explanation is that the distribution sampled doesn't match the
distribution from which you drew "only a few percent of companies hires
remote".
But it's also possible that people have different opinions on what "almost all
the time" means.
------
cholantesh
People have discussed in the past that SO's user base is heavily biased
towards web/mobile/database (including ETL) development. Are there any
competitors to this survey that would be more holistic/diverse in its view of
the industry?
------
banterfoil
Students' Expected Salaries was the most surprising section for me. As a US
soon to be grad, those numbers seemed surprisingly low. Perhaps the numbers
are a lot less outside the US? I don't even think I could find a dev position
that pays $30,000.
~~~
swarmerab
You do realize that there are developers in poor/developing countries, right?
$500/month is considered a decent salary for junior devs where I'm from.
------
dostoevsky
Interesting how "Knowledge of algorithms and data structures" is the third
most important thing developers think should be prioritized when recruiting
(3.77/5), following communication skills and track record.
------
ryandrake
It would have been nice to see more of the long tail of Years Since Learning
to Code and Years Coding Professionally. Wonder why they chose to not ask for
the distribution after 20 years?
------
sriram_iyengar
Loved the gif question :)
------
perseusprime11
I can't wait for somebody to send me a screenshot of the salaries and ask me
why are we paying $150K when StackOverflow says we can find people for $58K.
------
komali2
Who's the elected officials that are using stack overflow? I really wish they
had put more info up about that.
------
zerr
Glad to see desktop development is still kicking (28.9%) but remote jobs are
very rare...
------
brilliantcode
even north koreans uses stackoverflow!
------
sebastianconcpt
Smalltalk <3
------
flurdy
43% prefer tabs? Get out!
[[http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#work-tabs-
or-...](http://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/#work-tabs-or-spaces)]
~~~
m0sa
The problematic ones are the 19.3% who prefer both...
~~~
parroquiano
On the contrary, those of us who prefer both are the smart ones[0]
[0]
[https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SmartTabs](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SmartTabs)
~~~
rejschaap
That's too complicated for the unwashed masses
------
aikorevs
Just learned that:
Most Popular Languages by Occupation
For Sysadmin / DevOps no 1 is JavaScript
For Data Scientist / Engineer no 1 is JavaScript
~~~
darekkay
This is a little bit misleading. This was a multiple choice question, so it's
understable that most people have used JavaScript in some way within their
projects. This doesn't mean, that JavaScript ist the most used language in
those categories by the time spent using it.
~~~
thefarseeker
That was my takeaway too. If you ever had to change a spelling error in the
front-end of a devopsy-style tool, then chances are you wrote some javascript,
and bam: top of the list.
------
garganzol
Survey has a particular flaw: it lists ".NET Core" technology, but it's a
vaporware (e.g. not a real thing). It should be corrected to ".NET".
~~~
garganzol
For those who cannot grasp the point:
1\. .NET Core is on 4th year of development
2\. Breaking changes from version to version
3\. The absence of release culture. The approach of .NET Core team is to bodge
together something with a scotch tape, then call it a release. Yep, they are
even lazy enough to eliminate words like "beta" or "preview" in their
"releases".
4\. Astronautic APIs. They are so minimal to the point they are useless
5\. Does not provide a reliable way of doing things. "You can attach any
configuration provider you want"... Yeah, the truth is nobody wants any,
everybody wants the one that works as a basic requirement.
6\. Documentation is scarce and is totally useless. Yep, I know how that
method is called, thank you. What I really need is the description of what it
does, how it does it, and code samples. But what you get now is a large page
of HTML per class full of some obvious statements like "Method void GetState()
- Gets the state.". They call it documentation. I call it BS.
I can continue. But the point is that this is enough to kill the thing off.
.NET Core is already dead, but most people can't see it from the hyped bubble
walls.
~~~
cholantesh
Much of this is debatable, and none of it adds up to the platform being dead,
let alone 'vaporware'. It exists. It is in use. In production systems.
------
12389234
Javascript and Java reign supreme. No trendy wanky languages like the ones
mentioned on here all the time will ever be up there. Companies just pretend
they "use go" to attract the trendy people here, when in reality "use go"
means "there was a project once that we used go for" and 99% of their code is
javascript and java.
~~~
thefarseeker
Not sure if trolling or... but fwiw at Stack Overflow's SRE team we use Go a
_lot_. We just open-sourced our latest tool written in Go, DNSControl
([https://github.com/StackExchange/dnscontrol/](https://github.com/StackExchange/dnscontrol/)),
and we have dozens of internal tools and software written in Go.
Not to mention other open-source tools like Grafana, InfluxDB, or Cockroachdb.
I agree with you that Java and JavaScript will reign supreme for years to
come. Just pointing out that not all of us think that's a good thing, and
there is plenty of variety out there, in the real world.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How I snatched 153k Ether after a bad Tinder date - nerform
https://medium.com/@rtaylor30/how-i-snatched-your-153-037-eth-after-a-bad-tinder-date-d1d84422a50b
======
outsidetheparty
The "bad Tinder date" is completely irrelevant to the story, and is dispensed
with after the first paragraph -- but it's oddly effective clickbait; I think
this technique should be used more often:
* Apple releases iPhone X, after a bad Tinder date * Jamie Dimon Slams Bitcoin as a ‘Fraud’ after a bad Tinder date * Turkey Signs Russian Missile Deal, Pivoting From NATO after a bad Tinder date * Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, after a bad Tinder date
See? It works every time
~~~
maddyboo
Considering the fact that this was published under a pseudonym (as mentioned
by another comment), I wonder if the Tinder details were a bit of
misdirection.
This person purportedly stole ~41 million dollars from a number of parties.
Who knows who those people were? They could be some bad people, they could owe
money to some bad people, or they might be angered enough to become bad
people. That's not to mention the fact that law enforcement would likely be
interested in this. Or maybe some thugs might like to just beat them up until
they squeal?
Assuming the author is truly the thief, I wonder how many of the details
intermingled with their story are false.
Imagine you're the thief. You just stole $41MM. Now what?
You know _someone_ is gonna wonder where their money went - likely multiple
people. The blockchain is a public ledger. The victims are going to hire
people with expertise just like the author claimed to have in order to try
following the ETH as it is mixed and laundered. That's a lot of money to
launder successfully without making a single mistake. And I'd imagine a lot of
people will be watching.
However, the author surely knows all of this. So why write a blog post with so
much helpful information? Assuming all of it is true, we could easily deduce:
\---
> tinder user, went on a date w/ a creepy guy: author is likely either a
> straight female, or bi/gay male, single
> bastille day celebrations outside: lives in france
>has two living parents who own a house, has an older brother who does not
have a car, has a sister who is going/went to college
>has loans, does not own a house
\---
That's a lot of information, and isn't even all of it. Why just hand it out,
knowing you're likely a big target on a few people's radar?
~~~
Cthulhu_
> ~41 million dollars
Please don't use this term, use the actual stolen property, 153k Ether, whose
value will fluctuate daily (it gained and lost €100 in value in the past
month, which would make your estimate inaccurate with about €15 million).
------
jaclaz
Just for the record "Mitch Brenner" is the name of a character in the Alfred
Hitchcock's "The Birds", and the photo in the profile is of the australain
actor that played it, Rod Taylor.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birds_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birds_\(film\))
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Taylor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Taylor)
~~~
mannykannot
Do you think there is any significance to this choice of pseudonym (unless the
author's name is Mitch Brenner or Rod Taylor?) I cannot think of one, but I
don't know the film well.
Under 'Reception and Interpretation', the film's wikipedia entry says
"Humanities scholar Camille Paglia wrote a monograph about the film for the
BFI Film Classics series. She interprets it as an ode to the many facets of
female sexuality and, by extension, nature itself. She notes that women play
pivotal roles in it. Mitch is defined by his relationships with his mother,
sister, and ex-lover – a careful balance which is disrupted by his attraction
to the beautiful Melanie."
which isn't leading me anywhere (other than to think this analysis tells more
about Ms. Paglia's interests than the movie.)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birds_(film)#Reception_and...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birds_\(film\)#Reception_and_interpretation)
~~~
jaclaz
>Do you think there is any significance to this choice of pseudonym
No idea.
Though I can say that often enough critics see in a work of art (be it a book,
a painting, a music or a movie) even more than what the Author actually meant.
The only thing that strikes me is that - though a classic - it is not among
the most reknown ones from Hitchcock among the "new generations", most
probably if you ask anyone younger than - say - forty the only Hitchcock's
film he/she will remember will be probably Psycho.
So, assuming that the author of the medium post is not that age or over it
(and according to the "if I can get enough money for a nice early 20s
retirement out of this" it should mean that the post author is twenty
something), it is a "strange" choice, contradicting - possibly on purpose -
other anecdata sparsed here and there (without any apparent reason), such as
the use of Tinder, the reference to Bastille Day fireworks, the notion that
253 ETH are roughly "half a year salary", and possibly a few more that I
overlooked and that seem "not needed" in the context.
The image conveyed is that of a single twentysomething (if male possibly gay,
since the reference of Tinder is to a "he" that turned our as a creep and
later there is a "I am not a rich guy") LEO (or however belonging to a
security related organization) IT specialist (specifically working on
monitoring coin exchanges of dubious nature), living in France (or however a
place where the 14th July is celebrated with fireworks) and with a yearly wage
around 120-140K US$, with a family composed of father and mother, an older
brother and a younger sister, that had a work trip on monday 17 July 2017.
IMHO (and as other people already noticed) "too good to be true" or "too many
data points" for someone that wishes to remain anonymous.
------
albertgoeswoof
This is a retelling of the Parity Multi-Sig Wallet hack, from the hackers
perspective:
[https://blog.zeppelin.solutions/on-the-parity-wallet-
multisi...](https://blog.zeppelin.solutions/on-the-parity-wallet-multisig-
hack-405a8c12e8f7)
We're talking about 40mn USD here so I doubt that this account was written by
the original hacker.
------
spuz
I think the key to understanding this article is this:
> But Mitch, isn’t this wrong? No.
Let's suppose the hacker really did feel no remorse for stealing 153k Ether
then it seems they might not feel it necessary to keep their identity hidden.
They might also feel proud enough that they feel it is worth the risk to
publicly disclose their actions. Given that, it seems that perhaps some of
what the author wrote might actually be true.
Despite that it seems that there is more than enough information here to
identify them. There is only one country that celebrates Bastille day, they
are apparently interested in men so either a gay/bi male or a straight female,
they work for a security research company, they have excellent command of
English, they are in their early 20s, they apparently have a fast and loose
attitude. It seems those criteria would narrow down to only a handful of
people.
~~~
JetSetWilly
Presumably whoever did it is a clever person. If I were in that position, I
think it would be a fairly obvious step to season the article with subtle
misdirections that send people on a wild goose chase. In fact it would be
quite fun to do. So I wouldn't take the "information" in the article at face
value at all.
~~~
prklmn
I don't think being clever with code necessarily equates to having common
sense. If he had common sense, he would have went on his merry way without
bragging on the internet...
~~~
C4stor
You possibly vastly underestimate how important it is for people commiting
"perfect" crimes to tell the world it was them. There's a lot of stories about
forgers including subtle clues in their forgeries to be able to claim their
"art" and prove they duped people.
~~~
keerthiko
This. This is also essentially the premise for (the original) Death Note
(except a God complex rather than proving they pulled a fast one).
------
module0000
This isn't a real story, it's sensationalized fiction loosely based on
reality. I wish they would put it in huge letters at the top of the story so
you know that going in.
~~~
mannykannot
Then I would like a spoiler alert before that statement.
------
farresito
Are you really untraceable if you switch from ETH to BTC and then to dollars
or euros? I don't really know how Ethereum works, but if every transaction is
recorded, whichever exchange he used would have the origin ETH and destination
BTC wallets and whichever bank account it's going to, wouldn't it? I would
appreciate some insight on that.
~~~
6127qz17
And also what happen when your dollar or euro bank account takes +30 millions
in few days ? Do banks have alerts when someone's account activity is unsual
compare to historic usage ?
~~~
the_stc
Your account will almost certainly be frozen until you show up and convince
the bank you're not a money launderer. Given the complexity of AML laws, you
probably actually are at that point. And therefore the conversation with the
bank might not go in your favor.
------
maxehmookau
The real kicker here is the tip jar at the end of the article.
------
insomniacity
So, is this an admission? Or a theoretical? Or only part of the story?
Is the writer using a pseudonym?
~~~
pygy_
I agree this reads like fiction, and it would be idiotic to admit it.
If real, the people he stole from may be even less ethical than he is (and
they must have noticed the ETH were gone, and at what time). This could paint
him as a murder target, a position I wouldn't want to be in...
~~~
celticninja
except it is possibly a grey area, the contracts are written such that
extracting the money is only possible if you fulfill the contract, if you find
a loophole and fullfill the contract and take the money did you really steal
it?
~~~
sgift
With the usual caveats (IANAL, this may vary per country/jurisdiction) laws
and contracts are usually about intent, not pure semantics. And you'd probably
have a hard time to argue that this way of 'fulfilling' the contract was the
intended way.
~~~
celticninja
I understand that contracts are usually written this way but an ethereum smart
contract is a different kettle of fish. It is written to be a program so if
you can get the program to respond to your inputs then you have fulfilled the
requirements of the smart contract as it was written. Of course it may be that
it was poorly worded but that is an issue for the contract writer.
~~~
davidivadavid
Because whoever invented them called them "smart contracts" doesn't mean
they're considered as such in the jurisdiction where people using the said
"smart contract" are living. Matt Levine has written extensively about the
subject.
------
Tepix
I'm curious why the attacker converted his ETH into BTC. Why not Monero first?
Once the money is converted into Monero, it should be untraceable, right?
~~~
jpatokal
Liquidity. There's enough demand for ETH-BTC that you can convert $30m worth
pretty fast; for ETH straight to Monero, you would be in for a much longer
wait.
~~~
the_stc
Monero is also not quite untraceable with the defaults. It requires
understanding Monero a bit, and spending days churning your coins. The idea
that Monero is so unlinkable is horrible marketing and is going to get someone
busted.
------
gedaxiang
lol at this guy putting a tip jar at the bottom of the post
~~~
beaugunderson
it's a ropsten (testnet) address
------
sunstone
William Gibson was doing this in the 80's.
------
chirau
Out of curiosity...is this a man or a woman?
EDIT: What's with the oversensitivity here? Is there anything wrong in asking
a person's sex? What if it's for studying inclination towards certain decision
making criteria? Geez folks, not every question is sinister. If you don't want
to answer it, just move on. No one is being attacked here.
~~~
albertgoeswoof
> EDIT: What's with the oversensitivity here?
It's not oversenstivity, there's literally no reason to care about the sex of
the person who wrote this. It's completely offtopic and irrelevant.
What does "studying inclination towards certain decision making criteria" mean
anyway? Reading between the lines it sounds like you think women behave one
way and men the other way (which is fine if you think that btw), but wanting
to "study" that using this article is just dumb.
~~~
Nuzzerino
Note that the question was phrased as "Out of curiosity...". This is
essentially a disclaimer that it _is_ an off-topic and irrelevant question.
From the way I see it, your comment is even less reasonable in this context.
~~~
albertgoeswoof
You mean like if I used the same disclaimer and asked you this:
"Out of curiousity, are you male?"
Can you not see what that implies?
------
whipoodle
I was in a bad mood before I read this. Great read! Thanks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Zuckerberg slams Twitter as Trump plans to sign executive order on social media - Khaine
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-to-sign-executive-order-on-social-media-on-thursday-white-house-20200528-p54x6s.html
======
Gibbon1
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - Because I was
not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - Because I
was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a
Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Legless Japanese businessmen: the photographer who caught a Tokyo epidemic - kernelv
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/oct/12/legless-japanese-businessmen-the-photographer-who-shoots-street-sleepers-pawel-jaszczuk-high-fashion
======
ekianjo
> When the train has gone and a hotel is too expensive pavements and benches
> are the only option.
of course not. In japan you have tons of options to spend a night in town for
a few bucks. Go in a Karaoke at night, or an internet cafe (even some are
"boxed" so that you have decent privacy to doze off)... it's far from being
difficult. That is also why internet cafes have showers available...
> . But in the deferential, work-hard/play-hard, corporate culture of Japan,
> getting drunk and ending up stranded without a bed seems to happen all the
> time.
No. It's just statistics. When you are in a city with millions of people
transiting, you are bound to see a lot more of people who are dead drunk on
your journey because a lot more people pass by everyday.
The photographer has no clue about why this is happening. These folks who fall
asleep anywhere don't think about "getting to a hotel", they are planning to
go back home but are so drunk that they fall on the ground at some point.
Making it into any other kind of societal critique is just stupid.
~~~
emiliobumachar
Your theory should apply to any huge city where drinking is not taboo.
I've visited a few huge cities in North and South America dozens of times over
my lifetime. I do not remember _ever_ seeing people in non-ragged suits
sleeping rough. Is anyone else's experience different?
If this is specific to Japan, that's worth pointing out, even if the
explanation is speculative and may well be wrong.
Any other theories?
~~~
ekianjo
> If this is specific to Japan
There are several additional factors:
\- social drinking after work is "the norm" in Japan. Not every day, but
several times a week is not uncommon. In large companies it is excepted that
you would join such events, since it's pretty much a way to talk about work
(and other things) in an informal context.
\- alcohol is produced locally and there a very large industry pushing for
consumption (and it is advertised everywhere).
\- like in many Asian populations, there is a deficiency of the alcohol
dehydrogenase enzyme among Japanese, so a majority of people can't break down
alcohol very efficiently and could get drink after just 2 beers. I have seen
that happening over and over again - it's just genetics at play.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1762903/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1762903/)
> Electrophoretic and quantitative studies reveal that 85% of Japanese carry
> an atypical liver alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH). The frequency of ADH
> polymorphism is identical with the reported frequency of alcohol sensitivity
> in the Japanese population. This identity in population frequencies points
> to a causative relationship between the two phenomena and suggests that
> alcohol sensitivity might be due to the increased acetaldehyde formation in
> individuals carrying the atypical ADH gene.
~~~
Freak_NL
Drinking with ethnic Japanese as a white or black person really does make you
feel as if your tolerance for alcohol is doubled; in reality you just drink
less and in smaller portions. A common way of drinking together in Japan is
ordering a large pitcher of beer and sharing it with small glasses.
Culturally drinking still is expected behaviour in Japan. When you can't drink
for a while because of medication or whatever reason, you will find yourself
explaining and excusing yourself all the time; in part because of the Japanese
cultural habit of filling eachother's glasses instead of your own — preferably
in order of seniority.
~~~
ekianjo
Oh and let's not forget the availability of 飲み放題 (drink as much as you want)
plans in many restaurants at night. It's cheaper than usually ordering 3
drinks and leads to a higher consumption of alcohol at the end of the day...
------
moioci
Just commenting to point out the use of "legless" to mean extremely drunk. I
found this in an online dictionary, but it's new to me. Maybe it's a regional
thing.
~~~
leejo
British colloquial. See also: pissed, rat-arsed, smashed, hammered, wrecked,
and possibly others.
~~~
KineticLensman
> possibly others
Brit here. Off the top of my head: 'bladdered', 'blotto', 'hammered', 'pie-
eyed', 'pissed as a newt', 'ratted', 'sloshed', 'squiffy', 'sozzled',
'trollied', 'wasted', 'wellied'
These typically result from a night 'on the lash' or 'on the piss',
------
kasperni
Imagined the shitstorm if someone went around taking picture of collage-aged
girls passed out on the pavement, and published them it in a book.....
Yes, they have passed out in public. But I still think people have some right
to privacy.
~~~
justtopost
I am all for privacy, but public is public. Are you suggesting women somehow
deserve more dignity than men? Or just that our public perception is skewed?
I find your post confusing. While an appeal to privacy for the homeless makes
sense, these men have (hypothetically) a choice to go home, or elsewhere, even
if inconvient. I realize the article is hinting that the choice is not as
voluntary as they would perfer, but that is a very different set of value
judgements.
~~~
stef25
The Guardian gleefully posts anything poking fun or criticism at men but doing
the same to women is totally off limits. OP is totally right in that sense.
Even above the fold of their homepage they usually have one or two pieces
about social justice. Then there's a steady stream of columnists that publish
a daily stream of outrage pieces.
It's almost not a newspaper anymore but more of an activist-paper.
------
becauseiam
The Instagram account @shibuyameltdown has been covering people in Tokyo being
passed out in public areas for a while now.
~~~
sbarre
This account seems to capture the less sanitized version of this phenomenon
(i.e. most people get sick somewhere along the way).
------
stef25
The famous capsule hotels are made specifically for people who missed their
last train home. Tiny spaces but comfy, cheap and clean. You even get a pair
of PJs, toothbrush and soap. It's a great system.
The photographer and / or Guardian author can't seem to make the distinction
between workers who got so smashed they pass out on the street, and workers
who just missed their train. The latter certainly aren't going to collapse on
the side walk in a "fashion-magazine look"
~~~
cjhopman
Right. They definitely didn't understand that these passed out people were
drunk. They probably just got lucky including "Legless" in the title. From
Collins dictionary "If you say that someone is legless, you mean that they are
extremely drunk." And only in a couple places do they even mention how much
these businessmen drink and how drunk they must be.
------
mseidl
That's one thing I thought was a little disappointing when I was in Tokyo. The
trains stop at midnight on the weekends, when I would miss it I'd have to stay
out till they started up again.
In Germany, at least in bigger cities, they have on weekends and holidays that
public transit goes all night.
~~~
jchb
I think the mentality is: if you can afford to party, then you can also afford
to arrange your own transport (eg. taxi) home. Public transport running at
night time will be inevidently be subsidized by either day-time riders or tax
payers, due to the much lower density of riders.
Then, why encourage people to stay out late...
In northern Europe you often hear the safety argument for affordable night-
time public transport - “without that people may catch a unlicensed cab or try
to walk home and get robbed, or worse”. But in Tokyo you the risk of something
happening to you even if you pass out on the sidewalk is very very low.
------
TorKlingberg
The straight forward reasons:
* Japan is pretty safe. While it's not a good idea to sleep rough, you won't end up dead.
* The climate is rather mild. Unless it's mid-winter or a during a typhoon, the weather won't kill you either. * The culture of drinking after work.
* Lower alcohol tolerance, so it's easier to accidentally drink too much.
* That the Tokyo metro doesn't run at night, and many people live far from work.
Perhaps more interesting:
* A lot of people in Japan wear a business suit daily, but make very little money. Most people wear a suite to work unless it requires a uniform. Even then they might go to work in a suit and change.
* In general Japanese society is not class-aware. There are big economic differences, but you cannot immediately tell what somebody’s social class is.
* There isn't much of an underclass to provide cheap hotels and taxis.
------
volkisch
Another article by a tactless westerner that doesn't want to understand the
country he's visiting.
------
M_Bakhtiari
> Jaszczuk’s current project also critiques capitalist exploitation.
Isn't Jaszczuk himself rather guilty of capitalist exploitation? That is, the
exploitation of passed-out capitalists?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Has the biggest Indian anti-corruption movement ended? - gauravsc
Is the decision of Indian anti-corruption movement to become political, a right decision or wrong decision?
======
railswarrior
I think Congress has yet again proved herself, that she does not give a damn
about "Anna" and "his movement".
I must say with pravin bansal announcing that "lokpal will not even be present
among topics to be picked up in the monsoon session" just after Anna quit his
fast was a class act.
I guess , politicians are truly afraid of anything not even of people. I
suggest Arvind Kejriwal should give up on the jaiprakash narayan's motto.
~~~
gauravsc
Everyone is sure that there will be an anti-congress wave in the next
elections, but is that going to be divided between BJP and Anna party, is an
important question.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Demise of Craigslist - revorad
http://okdork.com/2010/12/13/the-demise-of-craigslist/
======
DupDetector
Submitted earlier. Twice.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2000973> \- 3 comments, now deleted.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2001237>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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