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Ask HN: Review this startup idea - djsamson
This idea popped in my head during work today. I was hoping HN would a) tell me if this is viable and b) let me know if anyone is doing this right now.<p>I'm a business student going into my senior year of my undergrad degree. I'll be moving to Silicon Valley next year and after having internships all year for startups in NY I'd like to take a swing at things myself. I don't have a tech co-founder so I've been focusing on ideas that would not be insanely expensive to outsource, like the following idea.<p>I was thinking how my friends have a pretty difficult time shopping for their girl friends for anniversaries and special holidays like Christmas. I also observed how my own girl friend gets really excited over random gifts I give her during circumstances when I'm not in trouble or when it's not a special occasion. Yet guys don't really remember how little things can make their partners that much happier.<p>Enter a new service. A paid, monthly subscription service where men signup and answer a questionnaire regarding their girlfriends/wives favorite things and tastes. A customer would receive one gift a month matching the inputted data. If he didn't like it he could send it back and not be charged for that month. The gift could even come wrapped for an additional fee. The mailing would include a non-descriptive return address so if their wife/girlfriend found the box it would just look like he purchased something off of Amazon or another retailer.<p>During the beta phase I'd probably purchase from retailers based on the inputted preferences. And then eventually workout deals with wholesalers when I can purchase on a mass scale.<p>The key problem this startup would be solving is men's difficulty for shopping for their partners. It would allow men to avoid spending time shopping for random, "just because" gifts. And while they would still shop for their own personal Christmas/anniversary gifts, this service would provide an additional gift for these occasions.<p>What do you think?
======
buu700
My advice would be to forget about fleshing out a sophisticated system until
you've demonstrated solid execution and profitability on the business end of
things. Until you have more than a few hundred customers, it would be
financially irresponsible to start involving computer scientists in a process
that you could just as easily handle yourself with a spreadsheet.
So, here's what I would do as a non-technical person trying to start this up:
* Figure out what you want as far as branding, draft up all your content and marketing materials, think about what you want out of a landing page and sketch out some basic wireframes, etc.
* Make your survey in SurveyMonkey, Qualtrics, or a similar service.
* Invest in a good logo ($300 to $500). 99designs seems like a pretty nice service for this: <http://99designs.com/logo-design>
* Find a good developer/designer to make your site, populate it with your content, integrate it with Stripe for recurring payments (with an optional field for them to increase their monthly gift budget), integrate your survey (in an iframe or something), and throw together a very basic database-driven backend for storing login credentials and customer information (including the link to their survey results). At this stage, the backend should also shoot you an email each time you get a new signup. I'd budget $1000 to $1500 for the site.
* Each time you get a new signup, send that person a personalised email introducing yourself, thanking them for signing up, prying more into their survey answers for more specific information, and specifically making yourself available if they ever in the future have questions, feedback, or updates about their SOs which they'd wish to share (insofar gift-selection is concerned, of course).
* Once you have all the information you need about the customer's SO, make an entry in a spreadsheet containing their name and address, as well as a general category of gifts they'd be into and a couple specific notes about what they like. Ideally, the general categories would be broad enough to be reusable between customers, while the specific details would be focused interests (certain films/shows/music, specific interests, etc.). If you want to be really thorough, you could even in your dialogue offer to look at a copy of the customer's SO's entire trove of Facebook "Likes".
* Now, the fun part. Each month, you get to look at your spreadsheet, verify which customers are still paying, email the ones who've left soliciting feedback, and pick a specific gift for each one who hasn't. As far as gifts, I'd mostly stick to Amazon, since it tends to be reliable and well-priced, it aligns with your goal to have the shipment "just look like he purchased something off of Amazon", and Amazon already offers the option to gift wrap for an extra fee (no point in getting your hands dirty with wrapping/packaging/shipping when you can just dropship at a much lower opportunity cost). As a clever scalability hack, rather than have a flurry of gift-shopping at the same time each month, schedule each customer's gift shipment for a different day of the month (i.e. calculate the modulo of each customer's ID number in the database with 28 plus 1 and ship the gift on that date).
* If you want a nice starting point for choosing gifts, <http://dowant.net/> is a little-known gem with a semi-frequently updated list of cool and quirky gift ideas from Amazon. (Speaking of which, the owner of Do Want is a pretty good and well-priced development/design/artwork freelancer if you want his contact info.)
* Aside from the day-to-day stuff, marketing still applies. Look at Google ads, Facebook ads, Reddit ads, a "Show HN" post, reddit.com/r/shutupandtakemymoney, paying for Twitter backlinks on Fiverr, etc. Hell, if you execute well I could even consider plugging it on the Relationship Advice subreddit (which I created a number of years ago and still moderate). Aside from the usual online stuff, I wouldn't be quick to discount the value of geographically targeted physical ads; see if you can look into cheap adspace in locations known to be relationship/honeymoon retreats, for example.
There: for less than $2000 (plus minimal recurring costs of domain+hosting
and/or whatever you can budget for advertising) and a bit of legwork, you have
a solid MVP for a fully running, attractive, self-sustaining business. If you
can eke out just $10 mean profit per customer per month, meeting a goal of 100
paid signups would put you at well past breaking even pretty quickly. A few
hundred more than that, and (depending on how much manual labour you want to
put into this) you could have a full-time job on your hands.
Long-term, as soon as things are on track to conflict with your day job
(assuming you'll not have not left by this point) and you have the marginal
cash flow to justify it, you'll want to begin automating things and preparing
to scale up:
* Obviously, you'll want to largely ditch the spreadsheet. The thing about automating what you want to do, is that automating it effectively and to a comparable quality of your manual operation is that it's actually a reasonably complex machine learning problem; don't expect to have it solved as quickly and cheaply as bashing out a Web site. At this point, I'd suggest finding a good CTO who'd be willing to work part-time for ~40% vested equity and take over the metamorphosis of your operations. This doesn't need to be her life at this stage (it won't have scaled to support her fully anyhow), but the benefit here is that you'll have someone to stick around and run the technological show once things really ramp up. She should have at least three to four months of runway to get an MVP ready for production and properly tested, so ideally you'd begin the search for a partner at a time when you're able to both demonstrate sufficient traction/profitability to attract quality talent _and_ be able to continue manually handling all of the extra signups that you'd expect to receive over the next four months (if necessary, you could look into offloading some of this work to a high school intern or cheap contractor).
* As far as implementation, throwing together what you want completely from scratch isn't an easy problem to solve. _However_ , a lot of very solid machine learning algorithms are already open source, _and_ you'll already have M months of gift choice data matched up to N different broad gift choice categories, which are in turn already matched up to N different survey data sets. With all this data plus the Apache Mahout machine learning recommender engine, a lot of the work is already done for your CTO. You then only need to have your system scrape and process Amazon's data on your gifts to determine novel gift choices from Amazon for your customers. In addition, at this point, have your CTO add in an option for your users to link their accounts with Facebook, specifically requesting the "friends_likes" permission in the API (with an explicit explanation that the purpose of the optional Facebook link feature is to scrape a list of their their SO's interests for more focused gift choices); so, essentially, your new system now gets the benefits of the earlier "specific interests" on steroids.
* Until you have more than, say, a thousand users, and the new system is well-proven, you'll need to personally sign off on each gift choice before letting it get shipped out. You don't want any silly bugs tarnishing your reputation or accidentally buying gifts that will bankrupt you.
* Beyond this point, pretty much just keep iterating and sticking to it. (Or, if you lose interest, I suppose you could get it 100% automated then contract out support to India and move on to other things while your bank account grows.)
* As an aside, since Amazon doesn't allow you to buy things through your own affiliate links, _cough_ , a convenient way to get a consultant/advisor available at all times for virtually free would be to make sure you and/or the automated system purchase every gift using that person's Amazon affiliate links.
~~~
djsamson
Did you get my e-mail? If not, contact me:
dj [at] darrensamson [dot] com
------
Mitchella
"If he didn't like it he could send it back and not be charged for that
month." In this type of service that garuntee could come and bite you one
month with a large amount of returns to which you're paying the shipping on.
-Insta bankruptcy- so don't make those promises right off the bat until you're
on a good run and know costs, avg return rate, profit levels/have investment
backing/etc so that one slip up wouldn't result in a the end of the business.
My other issue in this is vagueness of 'favorite things' and 'tastes'. You can
only have so many variants each month, 10 gifts that you've bought wholesale
amounts of and will have your system sort who should be getting what that
month. Going overboard with trying to pick the perfect gift for every single
individual isn't scalable and wouldn't attract high profits since you wouldn't
be purchasing in large quantities.
Other than that, I think it's a good idea. Tough part will be figuring out the
price point so that you're distributing high quality gifts at a price that
someone is more than willing to pay every month.
~~~
djsamson
I was thinking about possibly offering two packages. A basic package, let's
just ballpark somewhere around $25-$50 where I would ship out strictly
wholesale products each month, not really based on preferences. And then a
more advanced option ranging $50+ a month which would be personalized gifts
initially bought on the retail level. This package would require an indepth
questionnaire and possibly further communication as ideas run dry like you
said.
BTW: thanks for the return tip. I think that option won't be offered in the
early going I can see how that could turn ugly.
------
limejuice
There's alot of services similar to this, see
[http://pinterest.com/giftingexperts/monthly-gift-box-
subscri...](http://pinterest.com/giftingexperts/monthly-gift-box-
subscriptions/)
There's one called manpack which is for women buying a gift for their man.
<http://www.manpacks.com/gifts>
boink box (<http://www.getboinkbox.com/>) sounds like fun
[http://betabeat.com/2012/07/boink-box-is-birchbox-for-sex-
st...](http://betabeat.com/2012/07/boink-box-is-birchbox-for-sex-stuff-natch/)
~~~
djsamson
None of these are targeting what I'm trying to do however
------
tomasien
I like it. More of 500 Startups idea than an HN idea, and I'm not sure how
this is "cheap" to outsource (maybe you've got good hacks for that in mind)
but I like it.
Things to consider 1\. Customer ac - how will you do it and how much will it
cost? 2\. Scalability - are the processes you start with scalable, and if not,
what processes can you switch to that will be? 3\. MVP - what's the fastest
way you can test this theory?
~~~
djsamson
Keep in mind I am not a programmer so stick with me:
For this idea I would obviously need a decent landing page and a few pages
with information and then a call to action for payment. But how complicated
would a backend be if all I needed was a few forms for each customer to fill
out to contribute to my database of customer names, addresses and preferences?
What programming language would be necessary for the backend to be built? I go
to a technology school so I can most likely find a CS student to build it for
the right price and if I am perceived like I know what I'm talking about
(thank you HN).
------
trueneverland
I've ran across a few gift base startups that are doing something similar. I
don't recall them off the top of my head and this certainly isn't the first
time I've heard of the idea. i believe firmly there is a market. All that to
say, compete on.
Just validate the idea with real customers before you go build this idea.
------
huragok
This is a really good idea that would've saved my forgetful ass numerous
times.
------
livestyle
Validate it brotha..Get on Craigslist make a ghettto ad and see if there is
interest.
Spend 20 minutes watching Noah show you how its done
<http://www.appsumo.com/where-are-my-customers/>
| {
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The dawn of 3D games (2007) - bane
http://grenouille-bouillie.blogspot.com/2007/10/dawn-of-3d-games.html
======
ccvannorman
For those interested, you can play the first 3D game mentioned in the article
"Alpha Waves" here: [http://playdosgamesonline.com/alpha-
waves.html](http://playdosgamesonline.com/alpha-waves.html)
Other early 3D games of note: Test Drive, Dungeon Master (pseudo 3D), and of
course Wolfenstein
~~~
teddyh
Archive.org link:
[https://archive.org/details/msdos_Continuum_1990](https://archive.org/details/msdos_Continuum_1990)
------
robertkrahn01
The Colony isn't mentioned in the article and is one of the first 3D games
(1987). Demo part 1:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1XENlUUOhA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1XENlUUOhA)
Demo part 2:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3qrt76Ddk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3qrt76Ddk)
~~~
robertkrahn01
You can play The Colony here: [http://retroweb.maclab.org/articles/Macintosh-
Games.html](http://retroweb.maclab.org/articles/Macintosh-Games.html)
------
a_e_k
Articfox (1986) also deserves a mention as an early 3D game with filled
polygonal graphics. Demo here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPsOOYZs7Bg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPsOOYZs7Bg)
------
ghostDancer
I still remember Driller(1987) in the 8bit machines :
[https://youtu.be/QZ932_4terA?t=4m35s](https://youtu.be/QZ932_4terA?t=4m35s)
watching that in a C64 or a Spectrum was a wow then.
~~~
kpil
I also remember Driller - almost a surreal experience, with seconds long lags
but with a good atmosphere - possibly because of the good music too.I think
the game was trivial in itself, but getting there was both hard and required
some patience.
------
pdkl95
The earliest 3D games I played were on my first computer, the Atari 800XL.
"Rescue on Fractalus"[1] (1984) had _very_ impressive 3D fractal[2] mountains
at ~1-2 fps. It's
The graphics in "Ballblazer"[3] (1994) were a lot simpler, which was mainly
sprites over a checkerboard perspective-rendered plane with no camera
rotation. However, this was rendered _fast_ with a split-screen for two
players.
LucasArts was "faking" the 3D in both cases, but they achieved very impressive
results in both games given the extremely limited hardware (MOS 6502 at 1.79
MHz, 64k RAM).
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kNxy6UIX_k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kNxy6UIX_k)
[2]
[http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=358553](http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=358553)
[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qri5xavBdh4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qri5xavBdh4)
(first half only?)
------
mnem
One of the benefits of growing up in the UK around that time (late 80's) is
that there was a chance your school had an Acorn Archimedes or two and you
could have you mind blown with Zarch:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXypBxNGMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXypBxNGMo)
~~~
Kenji
Wow, that is super impressive! Done by a single person in in 3 months, back
then... I need to be more productive.
------
xioxox
Starglider II was very impressive at the time - I was wowed by seeing it on my
friend's Atari ST. You could fly around a solar system and through a network
of tunnels inside the planets, refuel yourself by flying along power lines,
shoot lots of baddies and even see space whales! It also felt extremely fluid.
It was interesting in that there was a proper mission beyond killing
everything.
Starglider I was also a lot of fun on my Amstrad 8 bit machine, although the
graphics were wireframe.
------
beschizza
I, Robot (1983) -- in the arcades, no less
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmvWxG2zvs8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmvWxG2zvs8)
------
Koshkin
_F29 Retaliator_ by Ocean. What an amazing game that was. Ran on a 286 with 1
Mb, in EGA. AI, moving targets, everything.
I have a feeling that back then developers were more interested in what could
be accomplished with computers than in text editors, programming languages or
desktop environments... (Nor had scrum been invented yet.)
------
EvanAnderson
I played Continuum on the PC. I got it bundled with the book "Garage Virtual
Reality". (I never did complete the mod for Power Glove to connect to my PC,
but I did blow up a keyboard controller on my motherboard in the process of
trying. Fun times!)
------
samlittlewood
Also worth mentioning Bruce Artwick's Flight Simulator - 1982 on PC, 1979 !!
(albeit vector only) on AppleII.
| {
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The Suburbs Are Coming to a City Near You - oftenwrong
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/18/opinion/sunday/the-suburbs-cities.html
======
yhoneycomb
TLDR: the upper middle class is moving from the suburbs to the city, so real
estate developers are catering to them by offering more amenities.
The article then delves into the specifics of what these amenities are. I
don’t see the point, honestly.
| {
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Mux (YC W16) raises $37M Series C as its developer video platform scales - mmcclure
https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/10/mux-raises-37m-series-c-as-its-api-based-video-streaming-service-scales/
======
bdod6
Congrats team!
| {
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QNial7 Array Language Announcement - gibbonsja
Q'Nial, the language interpreter developed at Queen's University for the Nested Interactive Array Language, Nial is now available in a revised version that supports both 32-bit and 64-bit architectures. The open source code can be used to build versions for both Unix and Windows operating system.<p>Nial is a very high level, general purpose, language based on a formal model of Array theory, developed by Michael Jenkins and Trenchard More, that influenced the development of APL2. Q'Nial is a C based interpreter with efficient, tuned, implementations of basic array operations.<p>As such it supports computations of large data sets that can be numeric or symbolic data. The programming style is highly functional but can be used in an interactive way to experiment on data and build functions incrementally. It combines concepts from APL, Lisp and functional programming and supports Algol-like control structures.<p>The implementation is competitive with other array languages such as J and APL as well as other interpreted languages with array libraries (Python/Numpy, Lua/Torch).<p>Nial has been used for rapid prototyping in areas as diverse as insurance underwriting, question/answering systems, composing music in a specific style, and a variety of artificial intelligence applications.<p>The repository is located at:<p>http://www.github.com/danlm/QNial7<p>This repository includes binaries for OSX, Linux, Windows, and Raspbian that can be downloaded and used directly.<p>Coordinator:
Daniel Martin<p>Contributors:
Mike Jenkins
John Gibbons
Stu Smith
======
brudgers
Clickable: [https://github.com/danlm/QNial7](https://github.com/danlm/QNial7)
| {
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Show HN: Stop Lying to us Amazon - robbiet480
http://robbiet480.github.com/StopLyingToUsAmazon/
======
johng
My personal opinion is this: Don't use Amazon or AWS if you can't deal with,
or you accept that there will be outages out of your control.
That's the very nature of what you signed up for.
| {
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Ask HN: New Zealand? - pluies
Hello!<p>I am reaching out for the kiwis hanging out here.<p>As a recent graduate in CS looking for a job abroad to see more of the world and discover new cultures, I am very interested by New Zealand — English speaking, high standard of living, immigration-friendly, and unbelievable landscapes and hiking trails.<p>As a lot of HN readers, I'd much rather work for a small company creating interesting stuff than for a corporate behemoth, so I wanted to know: What's the start-up scene like in New Zealand? And the programming job market in general?<p>Any information (from tips about NZ in general to names of hiring startups) would be greatly appreciated.
======
jgamman
Akl based here. not a dev so take some salt - CS has a different vibe to other
industries. it's a small country with all the pros and cons that go along with
that. don't expect to land with a good idea and find a VC who'll chuck you
$100k based on your 3 min pitch. most people i know doing their own thing do
contracting gigs to pay the bills and do their own thing on the side ie, get
paid 4 days/week and do your own thing 1 day/week - slide the 4 down to 0 as
and when you can. the other thing mostly lacking in NZ is the big
company/industry that supports the 'small provider ecosystem' - the big two in
NZ are Fonterra (milk powder/farming) and tourism - neither of which
(unfortunately) do a lot to support smart people developing widgets and
websites. if you wanted to come over (and don't get me wrong - so long as your
expectations are well calibrated, i think NZ is one of the best places in the
world to be) i'd suggest a reasonable LSD trip (look, see and decide) say, 2-3
weeks min. and then if you still like what you see, make sure you have a
couple months of your own cash to draw on - nothing beats the crap out of your
creative zen than wondering where your next batch of 2-minute noodles is
coming from (== ramen equiv.). have fun: if you make it here, drop me a note
and i'll shout you a flat white and take you to piha for lunch - you haven't
lived till you've walked a west coast black sand beach ;-)
~~~
wmboy
Fish n' chips or mince pies? ;-)
------
CyberFonic
Hi ! I'm a Kiwi currently living in Sydney - on "West Island" as we joke in
NZ. There are some world class companies based in NZ, e.g.
<http://www.wetafx.co.nz/>. Of course, you won't find a startup scene like
Silicon Valley - but the commutes and cost of living are also far more
manageable. Also consider that many emerging markets are located in Asia and
NZ is better aligned to those time zones.
I'm not up to date on job opportunities, but would suggest that it's a great
place to launch a bootstrapped startup from. The World is indeed Flat - the
internet has abolished the tyranny of distance if your business model doesn't
require shipping goods or face-time with people from all over the world. Good
Luck !
------
GeniusNet
We have a lot of ex-pats working in NZ (including my fellow co-founders at
iWantMyName).
<http://iwantmyname.com>
You need to make a trip down here and get involved in the tech and business
networking scene and meet some people. The start-up scene is smaller and more
fragmented than in the Valley. You just have to get out and network.
I would also recommend reaching out to established companies to begin with.
Most "start-ups" here are not venture funded, whereas larger firms are more
likely to be seeking talent.
UP is an excellent tech community that runs some cool networking events. Also,
sign up for the New Zealand StartupDigest.
<http://up.org.nz/> <http://startupdigest.com/>
------
Serene
It may be hard to reach out from here
2574 New Zealand companies with 1-10 employees are listed in Linkedin:
[http://www.linkedin.com/csearch/results?type=companies&k...](http://www.linkedin.com/csearch/results?type=companies&keywords=new+zealand)
Largest discussion group: <http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Kiwi-
Scrum-51900?gid=51900>
10 hn accounts:
[http://hackernewsers.com/users.html?User%5Bcity%5D=Auckland&...](http://hackernewsers.com/users.html?User%5Bcity%5D=Auckland&User%5BcountryId%5D=554)
------
wmboy
Here are a couple of recent articles on New Zealand's startup scene:
[http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-about-new-
zealands-...](http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-about-new-zealands-
startup-scene-2011-7)
[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&#...</a><p>NZ's
economic forecast is positive at the moment (unlike countries such as US or
Australia) but our tech scene is still quite fragmented across the country
(though it is a small size country compared to America).<p>Probably the
biggest NZ tech startup is Xero (<a href="http://www.xero.com"
rel="nofollow">http://www.xero.com</a>).
------
ayers
I am a Kiwi currently working in the UK. I only moved over to the UK a few
months ago so I still have a fair idea of what is going on in NZ. You are more
than welcome to contact me with any questions you have about NZ and the
development scene.
------
akat
Not to take over OP's thread but since relevant people would be reading and
responding here, how is the startup scene in Oz? Compared to NZ and US?
~~~
CyberFonic
Oz has more startups, even Google have an engineering team located in Sydney.
As for VCs, there are quite a few, but compared to the Silicon Valley VCs they
don't have the same appetite for risk. Compared to NZ, there are more ops,
etc. Cost of living in Oz is somewhat higher than for NZ, but not by much. You
have to remember that Oz is about the same size geographically as the US, but
with less than 1/10th the population. If you want to ski a lot, the NZ south
island is heaven. If you want to surf and enjoy a beach culture, then northern
NSW and Queensland are terrific.
| {
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Ask HN: What startup incubators/accelerator have research labs like YC Research? - jaesmail
Is this unique to YC? Are there any research institutes that are more integrated with their startup incubator/studio (or vice versa)?
======
notadog
There is the AI2 Incubator, which is part of the Allen Institute for AI
| {
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Ask HN: What hardware/software do you use in your daily life? - fredoliveira
Yesterday I found myself browsing through The Setup (http://usesthis.com/) and while I admire the people that are interviewed on there, I find that there's a lot more to learn from the rest of the people here at HN.<p>So I'd love to know, what does <i>your</i> setup look like? What tools hw/sw make you productive?
======
sirwitti
i try to keep my setup light and flexible, meaning that i´m not too dependent
on a certain OS and hardware.
the hardware i use: a dell latitude E6400 laptop (i like the 14 inch screen)
an asus 22' screen (basically any good flatscreen >= 20') very simple external
keyboard and mouse. (a standard keyboard layout is important though)
software:
gvim for programming (i love being able to work heavily with the keyboard)
ubuntu 10.04 (including evolution mail client, nautilus,...) bash (linux
command line, very efficient and on many machines available) virtual box with
a win xp installation (for testing IE and photoshop when needed) ietester (a
quite good solution for running different versions of IE)
------
cpinto
at the most basic: plenty of paper sheets and a pencil. I use this _a lot_.
for coding: any computer with vim is good enough, but my main machine is a MBP
15" w/ a 23" flat screen, wireless apple keyboard and mouse. I use the iphone
a lot to snap pictures of said paper scribbles but I usually keep them in the
iphoto library or upload to goplan. lots of people I know swear by evernote,
but I don't get it and as such I don't use it. when in need to do HTML, I
start up textmate (although I'm not very impressed with it, it does get the
job done in a reasonable ammount of time). nor am I a huge github fan,
although it's pretty easy to use.
for management: goplan (<http://goplanapp.com>) for basic project management,
excel for cashflow management, keeping track of generic project stuff,
metrics, short term projections, etc. I'm also back to using word a lot to
write specs, although I prefered to use Google Wave for that until the specs
were closed but as they're shutting it down I stopped using it.
for communications: calling people and email when calling isn't appropriate.
call me old fashioned but actually talking to people sorts lots of issues very
fast and time is the one thing you'll never get back so I see no point on
wasting it.
If I had to elect one single thing as what makes me productive, I'd say it's
other people who get their part of the job done, not any hw/sw tools.
------
cicloid
Hardware:
\- MBP 15" i5 + 22" LCD monitor, using the MacBook keyboard with a magic mouse
\- iPhone 3G 16gb. Maybe upgrading in a couple of weeks.
\- Moleskine, actually a big fan of this, with many versions on sight.
\- Moleskine DD, <http://www.zonageek.com/2007/4/23/the-geekster-moleskine>
Software:
\- Textmate with many bundles to handle the everyday need. Also PeepOpen,
works great.
\- Terminal, a couple of docked tabs with Visor
(<http://visor.binaryage.com/>) rest with normal windows
\- ZSH, Oh My ZSH is a great starting place
<http://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh>
\- Omnifocus on my iOS devices and desktop
\- Github, gity, git
\- Evernote, to keep all that matters to me in a handy searchable place
\- Dropbox, my favorite sync/backup tool, besides my external harddrives,
works great for development.
\- Homebrew, easily the nicest and cleanest way to handle software install on
your mac.
\- RVM, best option if you develop on Ruby or want to use some ruby goodness
------
fredoliveira
I'll start off with my own stuff.
Hardware:
- MBP 13" 2.4 with 500gb of HDD. Thinking of upgrading to SSD. At the office I plug this to a 24", mouse and apple keyboard.
- iMac 27" with a 2.8 i7. It also doubles as the home monitor for the MBP when I need to work on code that I may have on the laptop.
- iPhone 3GS 16gb. Don't see a reason to upgrade to 4 yet.
Software:
- Textmate+Terminal for most programming work
- Photoshop when I need it
- Omnifocus for GTD and task management
- Goplan for online project management and issue tracking
- Gitbox and GitX when I need a GUI for git. Most often just use my tweaked git log output anyway
- Notational velocity for note keeping
- Dropbox, a personal savior. Syncs all my stuff between machines
------
checoivan
@Home: iMac 27" w/ core i7 I use aperture + photoshop, or, vstudio,intype and
console2 depending on what I'm doing.
@work : Dual HP workstations, Core 2 quad.
Mostly vstudio,sqlserver,console,pshell, terminal services, and beyond
compare( best license purchase ever, 3 way merge FTW)
oh, and Outlook.
------
ashitvora
I use Evernote, Dropbox, Apple Mail, iTerm, Textmate, Tweeti and Skype the
most.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: PressBackup - cloud based wordpress backups - brianbreslin
http://pressbackup.com
======
redslazer
Hey
I sort of was going to write a blog post about your pricing table and it
turned into a rather large rant. Sorry :)
[http://nico.kunz.fm/blog/2011/03/30/pressbackup_are_you_seri...](http://nico.kunz.fm/blog/2011/03/30/pressbackup_are_you_serious/)
Im not sure if any of the information is useful or just annoying but i thought
you might want to read it.
~~~
brianbreslin
Replied on your site.
------
brianbreslin
So we're giving HN friends a discount 50% off 3 months, use code: hnfriends
We built this as a competitor to Vaultpress by automattic. It backs up your
uploads, themes, plugins, & db. Would love your feedback/suggestions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Driving a NES way beyond its limits by putting a Raspberry Pi in the cartridge - raldi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0
======
Rychard
The "making of" video for this is also cool. It's linked from this video, but
here's a link just to let everyone know it exists:
[https://youtu.be/hTlNVUmBA28](https://youtu.be/hTlNVUmBA28)
------
skywal_l
Very impressive. But can you plug that to an alien space ship? independence
day style.
------
RobLach
Similar to how time travelers have to interface with our devices.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Replace email with OneGlimpse to protect your intellectual property - elineQC
https://www.oneglimpse.com/
======
elineQC
Hello everyone! We’re very excited to show our desktop app OneGlimpse to the
HN community.
OneGlimpse can be used by anyone who wants to protect their intellectual
property when sharing it with others. Thanks to our secure in-app document
viewer, recipients can’t download, print or take screenshots of the documents
you’ve shared with them.
We built the app with ElectronJS to make it easily available for both Windows
& Mac (no Linux, sorry that was too difficult). We use a sharing algorithm
that doesn’t save anything on the device of the recipient, but “streams” the
shared files instead. This way, recipients can only open the file through the
app where they can’t print or download the file, unless you give them
permission to do so.
After a busy year of development with our small team, we’ve finally launched
the beta version. Interested in taking a look at the app? Sign up for the beta
on our landing page and we’ll send you a download link. If you like, you can
give feedback on the beta by filling in our survey and in return, we’ll give
you 3 years of Premium features for free :)
Feedback/criticisms on the landing page are appreciated too!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Batteries that “drink” seawater could power long-range underwater vehicles - yurisagalov
http://news.mit.edu/2017/batteries-drink-seawater-long-range-autonomous-underwater-vehicles-0615
======
wpietri
My chemistry's weak, but isn't this basically a way to extract the energy put
in when aluminum is refined? A quick internet search suggests that's 75
KWh/kilo. Lithium Ion batteries are apparently 0.2 KWh/kilo, so even assuming
a lot of loss in refining and then "burning" the aluminum, it seems plausible.
~~~
whatshisface
Well, it's absolutely the case that seawater isn't fueling it.
Edit: Removed incorrect speculation. Sorry, HN.
It turns out that they actually are using the water - in the same way that an
IC engine would breathe air.
If fuel cells aren't batteries, I wonder if this is still one?
~~~
gizmo686
Based on the article's description, the water is a part of the main chemical
reaction. It sounds like the reaction (essentially) H20 + Al -> H2 + Al(OH3),
with an unspecified alloy of alluminum.
------
donquichotte
Aluminium batteries are interesting and may be promising. According to
Wikipedia, in 2002 Yang and Knickle concluded:
_The Al /air battery system can generate enough energy and power for driving
ranges and acceleration similar to gasoline powered cars...the cost of
aluminium as an anode can be as low as US$ 1.1/kg as long as the reaction
product is recycled. The total fuel efficiency during the cycle process in
Al/air electric vehicles (EVs) can be 15% (present stage) or 20% (projected),
comparable to that of internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs) (13%). The
design battery energy density is 1300 Wh/kg (present) or 2000 Wh/kg
(projected). The cost of battery system chosen to evaluate is US$ 30/kW
(present) or US$ 29/kW (projected). Al/air EVs life-cycle analysis was
conducted and compared to lead/acid and nickel metal hydride (NiMH) EVs. Only
the Al/air EVs can be projected to have a travel range comparable to ICEs.
From this analysis, Al/air EVs are the most promising candidates compared to
ICEs in terms of travel range, purchase price, fuel cost, and life-cycle
cost._
Interestingly, Al batteries are missing from the MIT battery primer [0].
[0]
[http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www/resources/mediaAndArticles/batt...](http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www/resources/mediaAndArticles/batteriesPrimer.pdf)
~~~
foota
I think there's a pretty big difference between an aluminum air battery and
this.
------
pvaldes
They will need a way to cope with: sand grains, lime, phytoplancton,
gelatinous zooplancton, marine snow, sharks atracted by electric fields...
will need a microporous filter and a way to force the saltwater into the
device.
The problem with this concept is that this batteries could fail suddenly. Will
the oceanographers want to use it and take the risk? Even a small cube full of
Salinity and temperature sensors etc, can be valued in several millions.
A way to solve it could be to design a saltwater circuit totally closed and
autonomous. Like a gas deposit. Could even act as a shield for the machine. A
hole on this deposit and water entering on it? no harm done. Could be even an
automatic activation method for several types of rescue systems (Water
entering in the machine/ship after a crash, seawater-batteries activating
automatically)
------
gene-h
I recently saw a presentation by some college students that investigated the
feasibility of running ocean gliders on nuclear power. The proposal was to use
a nice sized chunk of strontium 90 for a radioisotopic thermal generator. This
would provide 45 watts electrical power for about 10 years.
The interesting part was not the technical feasibility, but how they were
going to make a case to the NRC to make such a use of radioisotopes legal.
Apparently there is a precedent for this, some scientific ice monitoring
equipment has used strontium 90 RTGs.
------
sgt
Perhaps this is something Liquid Robotics should (or already are) looking
into. That's the company James Gosling works for and they're doing fascinating
stuff with ocean robots.
[https://www.liquid-robotics.com/](https://www.liquid-robotics.com/)
------
algirau
I don't see any performance metrics.
~~~
ramzyo
My thoughts exactly. Tough to make any sort of evaluation of this technology
when the article doesn't provide any performance data or discuss the tradeoffs
of this solution (first thing that comes to mind is how heavy are these
batteries?)
------
nephrite
I really don't like that the hydrogen made in process is considered waste and
is escaping. We sure have a lot of water on planet but if the technology will
become mainstream and we will just throw the hydrogen away it will become a
huge problem.
~~~
simias
It seems like we're a very long way away from it being a practical problem.
And if it ever becomes an issue it doesn't sound like it will be very hard to
overcome. After all burning this hydrogen would release even more energy and
some water, although it would require a source of oxygen.
If anything I'd be more worried about the large scale effects of massive
amounts of aluminum hydroxide being released in the environment.
~~~
nephrite
At least aluminum hydroxide is solid, so it's easy to collect. Hydrogen is gas
though.
~~~
ema
Hydrogen in low concentrations isn't dangerous and it's gonna be slowly bonded
into water again whenever there is a flame or lightning strike.
~~~
Retric
Sunlight is also important for these reactions. There is quite a bit of ozone
which combines with hydrogen to become oxygen + water.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by employees - carapace
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-inc-agm/alphabet-shareholders-reject-diversity-proposal-backed-by-employees-idUSKCN1J22BS
======
RpFLCL
Previous discussion yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17251371](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17251371)
------
dokein
To what extent should diversity be the responsibility of companies? I would
argue the responsibility is in proportion to added-discrimination, so to speak
(kind of like your profit should be in proportion to your added value).
So, as an example, if 90% of your applicants are male and 10% are female,
presuming quality is randomly distributed, the default assumption is that the
company ends up with 90% male employees and 10% female employees. You might
make some adjustments arguing that diversity is better for work environment /
productivity / decision-making but that's a post-hoc adjustment.
If that is the case at Google (and I have no way of knowing), then I would
argue the burden falls on society for having 90% of applicants be male and 10%
of the applicants be female in the first place. That sharp of a gender gap is
not the case in Eastern Europe.
The solution is obviously best targeted toward the problem and not the
symptom. If you have a fever because of a bacterial pneumonia, antibiotics are
much better than Tylenol.
~~~
vlovich123
I had this misconception too & Google has not had 50/50 parity as a goal
(unsure about specifically what this proposal is but I don't think it
establishes quotas either). The discussion has been centered about reaching
parity with the available talent pool as you describe. It's even in the
article:
> Eileen Naughton, who leads Google’s HR operations, said the company remains
> committed to an internal goal to reach “market supply” representation of
> women and minorities by 2020, which could help bring hiring in line with the
> diversity of the candidate pool.
~~~
sz4kerto
It is interesting though that if are far from market supply parity now but
they want to reach it by 2020 then between now and 2020 they need to apply
really strong positive discrimination (over market supply parity) when
hiring/firing.
------
random_user456
Why do companies hire all these diversity administration in the first place?
It burns epic amounts of money, and sows discontent, when there message and
answer to everything is we need more diversity for all leadership and tech
positions,(aka quotas of people with subpar skillsets). Instead of merely
hiring on skill.
~~~
ddppee
The thing is that people aren't hired based solely on skill. There is some
degree of bias that needs to be addressed.
~~~
adamnemecek
This bias goes well beyond racial and gender diversity. Why are these the only
types of diversity that are ever discussed.
And pls don’t misunderstand this argument, but could the same argument not be
used for say diversity of skill? Like how come a company can reject me due to
lack of skill?
~~~
daveFNbuck
> And pls don’t misunderstand this argument, but could the same argument not
> be used for say diversity of skill? Like how come a company can reject me
> due to lack of skill?
The argument is that it's unfair and harmful to the individual, your company,
and society to not hire someone because their skin is too dark. Do you think
that's true of not hiring someone who isn't qualified?
~~~
adamnemecek
> society to not hire someone because their skin is too dark.
In SV, I can't imagine this being that common. However let's take an example.
There's an interview for a position and the interviewer is a white American.
Two applicants of equal skill apply. One of them is African American who's
attended the same high school as the interviewer. The other one is a recent
emigrant from Russia who is skilled technically however his "cultural
awareness" might be lacking. Who is more likely to get hired? This is a
rhetorical question. I actually don't know.
~~~
daveFNbuck
You're changing the subject. Let's stick to your first question for now. You
were asking whether the arguments for diversity of race and gender could be
applied to diversity of skill.
Does the argument I gave for diversity of race apply to diversity of skill? If
not, do you think I gave a non-standard argument for diversity of race?
~~~
adamnemecek
I'm not actually, I'm pointing out a type of diversity that the commonly
accepted notion of diversity doesn't quite capture.
~~~
daveFNbuck
Yet when I press you on your concrete example of diversity of skill, you
immediately move on to a different example without responding to what I said.
------
adamnemecek
This is an honest question to people who side with the proposal. At what point
would these measures become unnecessary? What are the conditions?
Btw what is the name of the ideology that one would use to justify this?
~~~
UncleMeat
This is a hard question to answer. But I'd consider something like racial
bussing in the 60s. This was a positive step and was enacted without explicit
exit conditions. Such exit conditions are not necessarily a requirement for
these sorts of initiatives.
~~~
adamnemecek
The two are very different tho. One is in some sense removing a rule, one is
adding it.
------
lainga
If we aren't going to mark this as dupe, I'll repeat my comment from the
thread yesterday: Per the article, backed by "several hundred employees" out
of a 2017 Alphabet headcount of 80,110.
~~~
ihsw2
Popularity is not a measure of validity.
~~~
hyperbovine
Sure it is, when the rulemaking procedure is by majority vote.
~~~
jonlucc
The rule making procedure, if I’m not mistaken, is majority vote of shares.
That’s why the article says that the proposals did not pass.
------
arkem
For interest here's where you can find the relevant motions being referred to
in the article:
[https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817918...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817918000222/lgoog2018-def14a.htm)
The ones being referred to are:
Proposal Number 6 Stockholder Proposal Regarding a Report on Gender Pay
Proposal Number 9 Stockholder Proposal Regarding Board Diversity and
Qualifications
Proposal Number 10 Stockholder Proposal Regarding a Report on Content
Governance
I'm not that familiar with corporate motions so I might be misinterpreting
what I'm reading but it looks like the motions are for Alphabet to produce a
report about gender pay discrimination, to disclose the qualifications of the
board (including ideological leanings and biographical data), and to produce a
report on the efficacy of Alphabet's terms of service enforcement (in
particular around user uploaded content).
Alphabet's disagreeing statements on the first one is largely of the form "we
think gender pay is an important issue (see existing published reports) but we
don't think this is motion is a good idea". The second one they actually
support saying "sure, a diverse board is a good idea". For the third one their
response is along the lines of "We take this seriously to the tune of hiring
thousands of people to enforce our terms of service".
My biggest surprise after seeing the article and reading the materials myself
was that the second proposal (board diversity) claims that Alphabet is known
to "operate in ideological hegemony that eschews conservative people" which is
not the impression I took away from the article.
------
calibas
Seems like there's a lot of internal conflict in Google at the moment.
------
ryanmarsh
If Google continues to advertise a strong stance on diversity the problem may
solve itself, for them. I say this because I’ve noticed that my clients with a
strong LGBT pride message tend to further attract people from that community.
Resulting in an amplification. In one such company this was very pronounced.
The reverse (people not from that community self selecting out) might also be
true but I don’t have anything to back that up with.
------
eulers__number
diversity promotion is just another system not based on merit but a system
based on discrimination and "affirmative" action
------
swebs
I believe these are the proposals in question:
[https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817918...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817918000222/lgoog2018-def14a.htm#lgoog2018def14aa065)
[https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817918...](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817918000222/lgoog2018-def14a.htm#lgoog2018def14aa068)
------
malvosenior
I wish the article had more details on why the propositions were rejected. It
makes sense though, Alphabet is there to make money not foster an ultra
political working environment. After the Damore incident, I wouldn't consider
working there, but this does offer some hope to those who aren't far-left
leaning.
~~~
peteretep
I wonder how you came to the determination that those who support equality are
_far_ left, rather than just left?
~~~
lawnchair_larry
He didn’t come to that determination. People pushing these _don’t_ support
equality or anything close to it.
------
bayfullofrays
I like what we are doing at our company, an unofficial 1:5, where for every
over represented candidate, we aggressively pursue five underrepresented
candidates. It is a lot easier to train people for tech than it is to "train"
someone to come from a oppressed community.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
MBA or Startup? - matt1
I'm 23 and recently graduated a good college with a degree in computer science. I have a standard 9-5 day job, which pays the bills, but my true passion is when I get home and hack.<p>I'm currently looking at a few options for what to do with my free time:
- Play it safe: Go for an online Entrepreneurship MBA or
- Risk it: Try founding a startup.<p>Or maybe the solution is to do both? I just worry that both the startup and the studies would suffer as a result of trying to do both with the little free time I have.<p>I'm looking for a little advice from people who have been faced with a similar decision. What did you do and if you could go back, would you still have done it?
======
brk
I would personally suggest to you (and almost anyone else) that you do neither
right now. Go out and get a job at an actual established mid-sized company
(ie: not just some other startup). Do that for about 3-4 years (not too long,
but more than a year).
It is extremely valuable (IMO) for both the MBA and the found-a-startup tracks
to know what a "real" business is supposed to look like and work like.
Learn about all the socio-political stuff that goes on in a typical
organization
Learn about sales, booking sales, recognizing revenue and other aspects of
cash flow
Learn about product design, development, testing, etc.
Learn about manufacturing, shipping, operations, logistics.
Basically, you get the idea. This experience will, again IMO, give you a far
better knowledge (and financial) basis upon which you can then launch into
your next trajectory.
Trust me, you have more time than you are led to believe to found or
participate in a startup.
------
cmos
"my true passion is when I get home and hack"
You've answered your own question! Your true passion isn't going to school, or
taking business classes online, so why do it?
I started a company out of college, made every mistake possible, and loved
every minute of it.
~~~
saurabh
Exactly, do what you love doing. For inspiration, watch Steve's speech at
Stanford.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA>
~~~
matt1
I just got around to watching it and really enjoyed it.
Thank you for the inspiration.
------
solost
I think there are two factors you need to use to decide for yourself.
One, what would you rather be doing? You're young you have time so you cannot
go wrong in either direction.
Two, what opportunities are available to you? Can you go to a really good MBA
program? Is there a start up you are going to join that you are passionate
about? Are you going to start your own business? If so do you really know what
that entails?
So my advice analyze your opportunities, decide what it is you really want to
do, but unless you have a killer idea and some people to help both technical,
marketing, and business wise don't start your own start up yet.
------
matt1
Thank you for the responses so far. Its amazing how varied they have been.
Trying to found a startup is a very risky business. Statistically, I'll wind
up with some very good experience, but no company to show for it. In the long
run, wouldn't it be wiser to get the MBA, even if it slows down my work?
~~~
pg
In efficient markets, risk and reward are always proportionate. So all other
things being equal, the rational choice is to take as much risk as your life
can stand at any given point.
~~~
byrneseyeview
Most startups implicitly disbelieve the efficient market hypothesis, since
they'd be able to get the same level of risk by using leverage. Most of them
seem to think they might have an edge, in which case the proper criterion is:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterion>
------
ssharp
A lot of schools don't wish for you to have experience they REQUIRE it. The
MBA should come after you've worked full-time for a couple of year. And online
doesn't sound that great. A lot of the value of the MBA coursework is learning
and discussing material in-class and analyzing problems and cases with other
students. Most MBA courses are more interactive than undergrad, so I think
you're better off in a standard classroom environment.
Also, many companies hiring MBA grads are looking for people who also have
good domain knowledge or past full-time experience. Big companies will hire
fresh MBAs with no work experience but they are heavily recruited and if
you're not coming from a top tier school, you're going to have a harder
time...and you probably don't want to work for a big company anyway!
~~~
tstegart
I second. If you're going to pay for an MBA, do it in person.
------
ryan_is_hungry
Working on a startup will be very valuable experience for once you decide to
get your MBA (if ever). I also find that a lot of business schools tend to
prefer students who have a couple years of work experience, as opposed to
students fresh out of college.
------
rms
If you go to the right MBA school you can get hooked up with investors. CMU
has a "meet the VCs class" and it's one of the best ways to meet the illusive
Pittsburgh investors. I don't think you will get the same connection at an
online school.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple blocking ads that follow users around web is 'sabotage', says industry - aaron_p
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/18/apple-stopping-ads-follow-you-around-internet-sabotage-advertising-industry-ios-11-and-macos-high-sierra-safari-internet
======
kagamine
I don't mind ads generally, people have to get paid and products have to get
promoted (not really, but it's how the world turns). Tracking is something
that I can happily say goodbye to and feel better about using the web knowing
it is gone. If only this would come to desktop and not just mobile.
Browsers should make it much easier to manage cookies and privacy than they
currently do. Even just getting the average user, including lazy old me, to go
into settings and look through a long list of cryptically named gibberish in
order to remove everything to do with facebook every time my SO has used the
family PC is a chore. So much so in fact that I keep a PC from which my SO is
banned. It's my Linux island.
~~~
Unknoob
It's not just mobile, Apple is actually blocking tracking in the desktop
version of Safari.
------
oalessandr
All these complaints from the ad industry feel like an endorsement for Safari
~~~
CodeWriter23
One would think they would know better, right?
~~~
sgift
Warped reality. They actually think ads are "helping" people, so the idea that
no one wants ads doesn't cross their minds.
------
dozzie
As much as I dislike Apple, this particular thing earns them my respect.
------
grzm
Discussion on AdWeek article of the same topic 5 days ago (159 comments):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15250463](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15250463)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Slowloris.pl HTTP DoS - Linux iptables workaround (sort of) - rmoriz
http://pastebin.com/d1fb3386b
======
rmoriz
rules provided by 'l3u' (not me)
Of course this does not prevent dDoS and is not a solution of the problem. but
it seems to stop lonely script kids for some minutes while migrating to immune
httpds/proxies.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Where can I download popular mailing list archives? - bbayer
There are several popular software related mailing lists. For running some text analysis, I just wnat to download archived versions of this lists. I did some research but couldn't find an easy solution. Is there a place that I can download all of them?
======
edavis
What about gmane.org? I don't think it has a download option but that seems
like the easiest way to get programmatic access to archives like that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Build a JSON API with Hugo's Custom Output Formats - regisphilibert
https://forestry.io/blog/build-a-json-api-with-hugo/
======
chrisdmacrae
This is a really great example of how powerful, and useful, static site
technology is for the web.
Open-data is a huge talking point right now, especially with the
[GDPR]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation))
regulations coming out this year, the discussion around social media and other
factors effecting our electoral process, and much more.
Static site generators like Hugo make it trivial for almost anyone to author
and share data in open-formats, applying powerful filtering and control over
what pieces of your datasets are made available.
------
kaushalmodi
Hugo's custom output formats are powerful. It ships with just inbuild RSS xml
generation (in addition to HTML of course). But it is very easy to add ATOM
xml too.
And another custom output format to dump search index in JSON for the whole
site (to be used by sorts of fuse.js, lunr.js, etc.)
~~~
sgallant
True. We use it for our Algolia search index too (documented here:
[https://forestry.io/blog/search-with-algolia-in-
hugo/](https://forestry.io/blog/search-with-algolia-in-hugo/))
------
sgallant
If you're new to Hugo's custom output formats, this is a great example of what
you can do with it. [https://gohugo.io/templates/output-formats#output-
formats](https://gohugo.io/templates/output-formats#output-formats)
------
passthejoe
This is a creative and approachable solution for developers who don't want to
fall down a back-end rabbit hole. No pun intended.
------
blacksmith_tb
A cool way to do something 'dynamic'-esque w/ a static site. I wonder if it
might make sense for some applications to use json-ld in the static html (and
have half the number of static files - which could get big...)
------
simlevesque
There is no scrollbar, it's not possible to view the article on my machine
with the latest Chrome.
~~~
wanda
Don't know why you were downvoted, the problem is present for me as well
(latest Chrome/Linux).
Disabling JavaScript fixes the problem — I can't be bothered to debug the
problem specifically right now.
If you're not in the habit of browsing with JavaScript disabled, and you want
to disable JavaScript quickly, open the Chrome dev tools, open the dev tools
settings, scroll to the bottom of the options, check "Disable JavaScript" and
reload the web page.
You can leave the dev tools panel open and re-enable JavaScript when you've
finished reading the article.
(If you already know this, forgive me — I meant no offence, just being
helpful).
EDIT: okay, so being the curious person I am, I did a little digging and
uncovered the problem.
Basically, there is an _aside_ element which, from its class name _' search-
results'_ and id _' search'_, is most probably used to display search results
(using ajax to load results into a panel which is supposed to appear above
content like a modal window, saving the user a page load, bla bla bla).
Anyway, the interesting part is how this modal panel is made. Here is the CSS
for said element (comments are added by me):
.search-results {
background: #fff;
bottom: 0;
left: 0;
overflow: scroll;
position: fixed; /* Possibly problematic */
right: 0;
top: 0;
visibility: hidden; /* Possibly problematic */
z-index: -99; /* Possibly problematic */
}
This element is being treated as being on top of the main body of the web
page, and since it is sized to fit the full window (absolutely-positioned and
fixed-positioned elements are treated as filling the viewport if the
containing element is statically-positioned, and if their
top/left/right/bottom properties are set to 0), the browser does not pick up
any scrolling of the actual article.
Now, I'm guessing that one of two things is going on. Either:
• latest Chrome either has some kind of bug regarding layer compositing (note
the _z-index: -99_ property which should tuck the _aside_ element behind the
rest of the content i.e. preventing the _aside_ element from interfering with
scrolling of the article); or
• _visibility: hidden_ and _z-index: -99_ aren't enough and either the element
needs to be sized when the results are displayed or the element needs to be
_display: none_ until the results are displayed.
If it's the former, you and I just need to wait for a version of Chrome that
has this bug fixed. Given that others aren't experiencing the problem, it's
either Chrome specific or even specific to our build.
It may of course not be a bug — Chrome may be functioning _correctly_ and
other browsers may have an oversight regarding layer compositing. I'd need to
check the _position_ property of the parent _body_ element.
EDIT AGAIN: okay, so actually I've just picked up on the fact that this
troublesome _aside_ element is set to _position: fixed_ by default, which is
the real cause of the problem. Whether Chrome specifically treats elements
with _position: fixed_ as being always on top, regardless of the presence of
an explicit _z-index_ property, is unclear. I think Chrome allows fixed-
position elements to be given a layer order if they are within another fixed-
position element or an absolutely-positioned element, but not a default i.e.
statically-positioned or relatively-positioned element.
Also, to clarify one thing about how _visibility: hidden_ works — it does
indeed make an element invisible, but it doesn't prevent interactions with
said element. This is the intended behaviour for this CSS property.
Anyway I'm rambling on now. This property probably ought to be set to
_position: fixed_ ONLY when the element is actually shown, and should be
_position: absolute_ until then for the z-index -99 to actually work. That
said, I don't honestly know what the intended behaviour in browsers should
be...
* * *
This problem goes away if JavaScript is turned off presumably because this
search functionality is intended to use ajax to load results in the _aside_
element results panel, i.e. without a full page load, and thus without JS
enabled it just defaults to the old fashioned behaviour of triggering a page
load to a results page. I guess.
So, the solution for you and I and anyone else affected is to either browse
the page with JS disabled or you can go into the Chrome dev tools, find the
_aside_ element (id "search"), right click it and delete it.
This can also be done with a trivial bit of vanilla JavaScript in the browser
console:
document.getElementById('search').parentNode.removeChild(document.getElementById('search'));
* * *
To the developers of this website, if you are here: I recommend you apply
either:
• _transform: scale(0)_ ; or
• _position: absolute_ ; or
• _display: none_ ;
to this _aside_ element until it is meant to be visible, at which point the
property can be changed to the value you want, i.e. _transform: scale(1)_ ,
_position: fixed_ , or _display: block_.
The transform is probably the best way, as messing with positioning and
display properties might mess with any animation effects you might have for
the search panel.
I mean, that's just so that it wouldn't get in the way for some of your users
(though we may be a minority).
I'm interested to know if it's a Chrome bug or if all browsers _should_ treat
fixed-position elements like this with no absolutely-positioned or fixed-
positioned parent elements.
And yes, sadly _position: relative_ on the html or body elements would be
insufficient — at least, I tried it and it didn't work in my Chrome version.
~~~
forestryio
We made the `transform: scale(0)` change to the CSS. I hope this resolved the
issue for those affected. Big thank you to Wanda for investigating.
~~~
wanda
Can confirm that everything works normally on my end now.
Hopefully the user simlevesque will report the same.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Being Useful - mrkmcknz
http://gitkid.com/post/25530730785/being-useful
======
SudarshanP
SpaceX, Self driving cars, Craig venter's synthesis of an entire genome,
growing organs, willow garage,3d printing, udacity, coursera, edX... the list
goes on... things are not too bad. But only the bold will choose the hard
paths. The rest will clone successful startups.
------
maxko87
I agree.. the problem is that "meaningful" technology often takes much longer
to come up with, create, and is often harder to monetize even once created.
Government (e.g. DARPA) is a big supporter of this kind of development, but
there's just not as much fast money there are there is in Silicon Valley's
VCs.
------
Ralith
You're right, but the incentives just aren't there to support another mode of
behavior. How can we fix that?
~~~
mrkmcknz
I honestly don't know, personally I want to be part of that new behaviour.
I just don't see the benefit at the minute.
With guys like Elon Musk really changing the world hopefully we are on that
path of change.
~~~
Ralith
While Elon Musk's work is great, I don't see how that's changing the incentive
structure for young, unmoneyed entrepreneurs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
AWS Region in Spain - aarroyoc
https://aws.amazon.com/en/local/spain/
======
Benfromparis
404 error
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
One Nation, Tracked - terryf
Http://nytimes.com/tracked
======
drivebycomment
I am surprised that this article didn't attract discussion on HN. It would be
useful if NYT can just straight up publish which apps were giving those out.
That would make people instantly uninstall them and probably not touch them
again for a long time.
~~~
iflp
It's been posted and attacted some attention:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21833718](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21833718)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to Scratch Your Own Itch and Build a 6-Figure SaaS Business - omerkhan
http://www.conversionaid.com/podcast/josh-ledgard-kickoff-labs/
======
smt88
My first reaction to this was: you can't put "how to" in front of that. A lot
of it is trial-and-error, timing (luck), and unfair advantages (luck).
If there were a simple formula, VCs would be starting businesses themselves
(or paying people to do it) rather than rolling dice on startups.
My next reaction: anyone who recommends "The 4 Hour Work Week" is not worth
listening to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together - loomio
http://loomio.org/crowd
======
User8712
Crowdfunding web applications? Is this becoming a new thing?
Send us 100k, and we'll finish our beta application, and give you rewards,
like your name in the code, or for $500, you can have a coffee with us on
video chat. Or for $25,000, fly yourself here, and we'll give you a tour of
the city and cook you dinner. Does this not sound crazy to anyone else?
If they raise an extra $150k, they'll develop extras, such as _a plug-in
architecture to enable an ecosystem of open-source plug-ins for different
discussion and decision-making protocols that will scale to much larger
groups_. I don't know what the hell that even means, but isn't it a little
irresponsible to even consider such features when you haven't made an official
release, and proven the concept has any long term traction?
If you can't tell, this entire thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. After 18
months of beta they're unable to launch, or make enough sales to organizations
to fund their development, so they're asking the crowd for a 100k donation? I
don't believe their software is as life changing as the video makes it out to
be, and I don't think they have a viable business. I expect them to burn
through the money, launch, and fade away.
~~~
loomio
Hi, thanks for your comments. We launched a functional and useful alpha in
early 2012, followed by a public beta in 2013, which was open to everyone to
use. 15,000 people have already signed up and people are using the software
right now all over the world. You're welcome to use the Loomio protoype right
now, either the hosted version in the cloud, or install your own instance.
Set up a Loomio prototype group here:
[https://www.loomio.org/group_requests/new](https://www.loomio.org/group_requests/new)
or grab the code from
[http://github.com/loomio/loomio](http://github.com/loomio/loomio)
So if we're talking about the beta prototype, characterising us as "unable to
launch" isn't fair. What the crowdfunding campaign is for is building Loomio
1.0, a redesign and expansion of the core idea we've validated.
The stretch goals would allow us to unlock matching funding from the New
Zealand government, including taking on some big technical challenges. You are
right that these are not yet well-defined, since we're still a ways off from
starting to work on them. But there are serious challenges around scaling up
meaningful online discussion and decision-making to large groups that I don't
believe anyone has really solved yet. We want to take them on.
We've hung in there for 2 years already, and put together an amazing team. The
incredible support of over 1000 people is now going to allow us to release
Loomio 1.0 later this year. We're not going anywhere!!
So sorry it leaves a bad taste. If there's anything else you'd like to know
that might help you understand it better, please let us know! We're a
genuinely earnest and well-meaning group trying to build something we think
can help people.
~~~
User8712
Why would you say unable to launch isn't a fair assessment? If you had a
functional and useful alpha over 2 years ago, and 1.0 isn't released, I'd say
that's spot on. You're going to be in for nearly 3 years, $100k from the
crowd, and an unknown amount from your supporters and team before officially
launching. 15,000 users on free software is a small number. I'd be worrying
the small number isn't because the big launch has happened, but because the
concept doesn't have enough appeal. I've launched a few different projects in
the past that hit 15,000 users in a week, and the majority of those died
within months or a year.
Nonetheless, congratulations on raising $100k from 1,000 users. That shows
some dedication from the community, so you must be doing something right.
Hopefully I'm wrong on my forecast, and good luck on the project.
------
llamataboot
So excited to see Loomio on the frontpage of Hacker News! I've long dreamed of
an effective web app for consensus decision making processes (and even thought
about building one) but as a user of Loomio for over a year I can say they've
done almost everything right -- even down to having some serious design chops.
I'm so excited to see where they will be able to take this with the money
they've raised (hit your goal today! woot!) and look forward to introducing
more activist organizations, especially those with people in many geographical
locations, to Loomio. Great job to all the devs and designers and alpha and
beta testers!
For those of you who don't know, consensus decision making is not just a
willy-nilly free for all. Over the years it has been refined by groups, it has
developed strong points of process that help ensure it actually is a decision
making process, not just a discussion that goes in circles or goes nowhere.
(including the infamous hand signals that many saw during Occupy). If you are
interested in consensus decision making, I highly recommend checking out this
classic book.
[http://consensus.net/pdf/consensus.pdf](http://consensus.net/pdf/consensus.pdf)
While I don't think formal consensus decision making is the best tool for non-
hierarchical decision making i all circumstances, I do think it is quite
powerful /when used correctly/. Historically this has required strong
facilitation skills and other roles (timekeeper, temperature checker, etc) --
all of which play their part in keeping the process working as designed.
Loomio has created a platform for decentralized non-hierarchical decision
making that bakes in some crucial features /to accomplish formal consensus
decision making/. All the activists I know that have tried it have been
impressed by the dev team's responsiveness and dogfooding (Loomio uses
Loomio), and have found the features enable formal consensus decision making
in a way that a discussion board or voting polls or similar tools that aren't
quite designed for consensus just don't.
~~~
grimtrigger
What have you been using Loomio for? I still can't say I really get it.
~~~
llamataboot
For doing formal-ish consensus decisionmaking with groups that are
geographically dispersed and can't do in-person consensus-based meetings.
------
xerophtye
I really like the platform. It enables people to conduct the decision making
in a way that is followed in formal committees, and even the UN. People
present options, everyone talks about them, then when it seems that the group
is converging towards a solution, you present a proposal. And then everyone
votes on it (and not just a yes or no!). So it's pretty cool.
I just have one concern, does only the leader present proposals? or can
everyone do it? To me, letting only the leader (OP) do that makes sense.
otherwise wouldn't everyone be just doing that instead of posting suggestions?
~~~
robguthrie
Thanks! Yes anyone can start a discussion and a proposal, but we haven't
experienced people just starting proposals without engaging in other ways.
People start proposals but if you don't want to participate, you can just let
them die. The big idea here is to build shared understanding through
discussion before a proposal is suggested, that way the group has a solid
foundation on which to create a decision.
~~~
xerophtye
I understand the intended usage but I am just a little surprised that people
actually follow that. Either way, good work! I am loving it!
------
MakeUsersWant
My pet peeve is projects that don't describe what they do. Thought process
while reading:
> Loomio is a user-friendly tool for collaborative decision-making:
Piqued my interest.
> not majority-rules polling, but actually coming up with solutions that work
> for everyone.
Skeptical because it promises to get rid of office politics. I want to know
specifics how and why it works. Cold, hard, game-theory and/or economics.
Maybe there is something useful behind that marketing-speak.
> We’re a small team in New Zealand, and we’ve built a prototype that people
> are already doing great things with.
Total non-sequitur. I don't care who you are. Convince me why the product
works before I invest more effort.
> Now we’re crowdfunding so we can build the real thing: a new tool for truly
> inclusive decision-making.
Ah, it doesn't work yet.
> Youtube video
Sorry, I'm not going to spend an hour of my time when you've already proved
yourself a bad steward of the last five minutes.
Contrast this to xerophtye's comment: short, punchy explanation how Loomio
works.
~~~
robguthrie
Thanks for the feedback. We'll try to fix those points.
Checkout the explore page for a few examples of groups using the tool:
[https://www.loomio.org/explore](https://www.loomio.org/explore)
------
Widdershin
I know some of the people involved in this project, and I've recently started
trying to contribute. It's really cool to see New Zealand open source software
doing well in the wider community.
I've also used it personally for a few things and I think the idea has really
good potential. It ties open decision making into a discussion quite well. Try
it out.
[https://github.com/loomio/loomio](https://github.com/loomio/loomio)
~~~
jessedoud
Thanks! We were stoked to get your pull request today :)
------
loomio
Thanks to everyone for checking out Loomio! If anyone has questions, please
feel free to ask away (several of the team members have answered a few
already).
~~~
audreyt
I'd just like to thank the loomio team for supporting Taiwan's
#CongressOccupied activities as chronicled in
[http://0sdc.tw/en](http://0sdc.tw/en) — you played a key part in ensuring a
safe and successful process, and will likely help on our future of
constitutional reform as well.
~~~
loomio
We were humbled to be able to support you, and it's reaffirmed our belief in
the importance of translations and accessibility in the app. All the best to
you in Taiwan!
------
thangalin
Here is a different approach (a mash-up of StackExchange, reddit, Wikipedia,
and hallojs):
* [http://davidjarvis.ca/world-politics/](http://davidjarvis.ca/world-politics/)
* [https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/world-politics/](https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/world-politics/)
See also:
* [http://hallojs.org/](http://hallojs.org/)
~~~
whimful
it's an interesting approach. I would be interested to see whether world-
politics is capable of generating and addressing a range of diverse
perspectives.
in my experience, without a focus on dialogue this isn't easy.
~~~
thangalin
A good point. A friend of mine pointed me to six hats[1]. Currently the mock-
up mirrors a two-level reddit in its dialogue with a tight focus on facts (the
information-based white hats).
The advantage of having only facts is that the interface is simpler. The
disadvantage is that not all views might be represented, thus impeding
dialogue.
[1]:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Thinking_Hats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Thinking_Hats)
------
hypnotics
Loomio is a great platform. A simple, yet elegant way to tap into the
collective knowledge and decision making in organizations. Really recommend
it!
I've already supported the crowdfunding and planning on contributing to the
open source community as well. There is huge potential in Loomio!
~~~
loomio
Thanks so much! Right from the start, Loomio has been a community-driven
project, and we only exist because of everyone's support.
------
Theodores
This concept reminds me of the non-hierarchical decision making by consensus
process that groups such as 'Reclaim the Streets' tried to implement a couple
of decades ago.
However, 'Reclaim the Streets' never asked anyone for any donations. That made
them very different to your typical 'save the world' group where the main
point of the org/charity is just that, soliciting donations.
Like many people here I don't quite get what the money is needed for, even
though it is spelled out. I also had a look at the github and it looks like
things are aeons away from the 'Wordpress 5 minute install'. The Wordpress 5
minute install really is too much technical wizardry for a lot of folk, they
need an 'I.T. Expert' (TM) to do it for them. Wordpress offer hosted versions
to get around this trifle and I am sure that is the way to go, however, if you
are open sourcing the code and expecting people to host their own, being open
source is not enough, it has to be reasonably easy to install.
Every man, dog and cat rolls a few Rails apps before their breakfast in The
Valley, so it is no big deal. Yet for the people that are just about okay
uploading something like Wordpress to their 'FTP server' and setting up a
database through some hideous 'cPanel' contraption do matter. These are the
people likely to be administrators of a group somewhere that could benefit
from your software.
~~~
loomio
It is indeed inspired by consensus decision-making, although the Loomio
platform can work for various decision-making protocols not just 100%
consensus. It just nudges groups away from strict majority-rules or one-way
communication (polls with pre-defined options), which leads to a lot more
meaningful participation and better outcomes for groups.
A big focus for the next phase is making installing your own instance a lot
easier. We're going to release a docker file for Loomio 1.0. But just in case
you weren't clear, there is also a cloud-hosted version that anyone can use
without technical expertise.
------
derekrazo
Speaking from experience, Loomio is a wonderfully effective decision making
platform. :)
~~~
killerpopiller
how does it ensure that only one person gets one account?
~~~
jessedoud
We're interested in exploring cryptographic anonymization. But the truth is,
most groups don't need it.
~~~
toomuchtodo
What about using SMS/Facebook auth?
~~~
whimful
for auth at the moment we have (in no particular order): google, facebook,
persona
------
mrmondo
Great project, have my $12.
FYI - the website takes a very long time to load in Australia, I would suggest
using a CDN to improve international load times.
~~~
whimful
good to know, we're on cloudflare, and do have caching in place. were there
any pages in particular that were slow?
~~~
mrmondo
Sorry only just saw this, it was the front / landing page. It seemed to be
very sluggish, especially if you are already using cloudflare, unfortunately
Australia's internet is atrociously slow compared to NZ's (oh how I miss it!)
so it's very noticeable if a page is even slower than usual. Perhaps make a
free NewRelic account and have a look to see what you can easily target as low
hanging fruit (long db queries etc...)
------
smedvedev
Great start guys! Wishing you all the best making that great product. I
believe it can bring a lot of value to the World
~~~
loomio
Hey, thanks so much! We really appreciate the encouragement.
------
chatman
Nothing more than a fancy discussion forum.
~~~
jonlemmon
Well, it's not really fancy. In terms of discussion forums, Discourse is much
more fancy than what we've built.
But, unlike most forums, we've tailored every feature toward bringing
discussions to consensus. And when you're trying to decide something online,
that makes a big difference.
~~~
xerophtye
And from the looks of it, you did a great job!! Exploring your "how to make a
decision on loomio" right now.
~~~
jonlemmon
Thanks!! :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: KivaSort – sort and filter Kiva field partners - cristoperb
https://kivasort.americancynic.net/
======
cristoperb
I wrote a simple jQuery plugin [1] based on DataTables [2] that fetches data
from Kiva's API [3] and makes it filterable/sortable. (Being a jQuery plugin
it makes it easy to add a table of sortable field partners to any HTML
document [4]).
1: [https://github.com/cristoper/jquery-
KivaSort/](https://github.com/cristoper/jquery-KivaSort/)
2: [https://datatables.net/](https://datatables.net/)
3: [https://build.kiva.org/api](https://build.kiva.org/api)
4: For example see section three of this article "Some thoughts on Kiva's
interest rates":
[https://americancynic.net/log/2018/12/6/some_thoughts_on_kiv...](https://americancynic.net/log/2018/12/6/some_thoughts_on_kivas_interest_rates/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Working Remotely in Cafes and Possibly Even Surviving - doppp
https://zachholman.com/posts/remote-work-cafes
======
dbg31415
> Most coffee shops are filled with scum who had previously been
> unceremoniously fired from their “real” jobs and are now just floating
> through life, living off the graces of wireless internet for the low price
> of a single cup of tea over six hours.
There's very little truth in this article.
Plenty of talented people work remote, and good coffee shops that foster a
productive work environment are a great place to meet other people who are
doing the same thing you're doing. I've made friends, found new people to work
with, picked up new contract gigs... just by talking to people who were
working in the same coffee shop I was. If the author thinks so lowly of people
who work remote, maybe he's just reflecting on his own situation...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tech’s Military Dilemma - LinuxBender
https://newrepublic.com/article/148870/techs-military-dilemma-silicon-valley
======
opportune
I like how most comments here ignore that if the US military / intelligence
apparatus simply stopped engaging in morally dubious or bankrupt operations,
most people would have no problem helping them create weapons. Would I create
weapons if I knew they would only be used in defense or other highly ethical
ways? Of course. But you’re kidding yourself if you think the current US
military and its contractors won’t use those weapons to drone innocent people
in Yemen and sell those weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia.
This is a two sided debate but all I see here is people arguing whether tech
workers should or should not care about personal politics. The other side is
whether the US cares enough about having good technology that they’re willing
to act more morally. Perhaps neglecting that possibility shows we don’t even
think there’s a chance of that happening
~~~
jonnybgood
> But you’re kidding yourself if you think the current US military and its
> contractors won’t use those weapons to drone innocent people in Yemen
The US military actually doesn’t want that to happen. It invests huge amount
of resources in developing processes and tech to minimize collateral damage
and civilian deaths. Winning hearts and minds is just as important to the
mission as dropping bombs on ISIS and Al Qeada.
~~~
opportune
Even if the US military itself doesn't, the US has allies who don't seem to
care as much about innocent people being hurt:
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/12/08/yemen-us-made-bombs-
used...](https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/12/08/yemen-us-made-bombs-used-
unlawful-airstrikes)
That doesn't even touch on the fact that the US involves itself in many
conflicts where the enemy combatants are pretty much "innocent" relative to
the US, and continually approves arms sales to despotic dictators installed
via US-backed regime change. A lot of the unethical actions of the US are
outsourced
------
telltruth
A lot of great tech has came out of military projects like GPS and virtually
all of space technology. Arguably, a lot of these tech would not have been
developed otherwise because either there was no commercial use case or capital
requirements would have been too high. A lot of research is funded by programs
like DARPA. There are several military projects that can actually prevent wars
and save lives (drone surveillance in war zone being one). I think companies
need to take balanced look.
~~~
toomanybeersies
That's not because the military technology was intrinsically good though, but
rather a side effect of the massive budgets that governments will give towards
military R&D.
If the government threw just as much money into civilian research, we'd likely
get just as much good, without finding more efficient ways to kill each other.
For instance, Australia has CSIRO [1], which is sort of like DARPA, but
without the military bent. They've managed to invent all sorts of cool new
stuff.
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRO)
~~~
ryacko
Intel corporation is still larger than DARPA and DARPA is much more diffuse.
The impact shouldn't be that great.
~~~
jackpirate
A better comparison would be Intel Research and DARPA or Intel and the whole
DOD. By either of those measures the military budget is much bigger.
------
Nasrudith
If the source is looked at as a labor movement it would be a deeply atypical
example of the bloc. Normally labor movements are all about guaranteeing good
conditions and pay but such efforts have historically received chilly
receptions despite obvious grounds for appealing to them like long hours and
poor work-life balance. They appear to generally desire a competitive
workforce and to reap the benefits of success. There are elements of that in
other professions with guilds but those have operated in at times naked self-
interest. It isn't even quite 'organized' labor per say - at least not yet.
Even Free Software fundamentalists haven't signed on charters refusing to work
with proprietary software for instance.
Instead ethics are what finally seem to have pushed tech workers to unify
against their employer's raw immediate financial interests in spite of often
having shares to benefit from them. It doesn't even seem to map consistently
to either 'mainstream' or 'geek' ethics perfectly either although growing
disillusionment with the government appears to be part of it.
I suppose the tech political mainstream also can be considered 'misfit' in
other ways not fitting entirely in the typical left or right bounds.
~~~
knuththetruth
It’s deeply atypical of the US labor movement because the Taft-Hartley act was
specifically designed to curb union power and, correspondingly, class
consciousness and class solidarity. This combined with the vicious (not to
mention deeply anti-Semitic) purge of socialists and communists was intended
to narrowly circumscribe what union membership meant and furthered.[0] It’s
far different in Europe, where labor unions are much more expressly engaged
with the formation of political parties that serve their interests[1]
If tech workers are waking up to their class position as labor, learning the
power inherent in collective action, refusing to help further US imperialism,
that’s something to be celebrated. And if anything, it’s a brilliant
recognition of their position relative to other laborers (highly paid and
benefitted), that they first use their power for the sake of ethics before
pursuing their self-interest.
[0] [https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/taft-hartley-unions-right-
to-...](https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/taft-hartley-unions-right-to-work)
[1] It’s a bit hard to explain in an HN post, but essentially, the way that
labor-oriented political parties are constituted and have their priorities
decided in the US is backwards from those in Europe (top-down vs bottom-up).
Seth Ackerman outlines this in this podcast episode, if you have time to
listen:
[https://www.blubrry.com/thedig/35556305/a-new-party-of-a-
new...](https://www.blubrry.com/thedig/35556305/a-new-party-of-a-new-kind/)
~~~
gt_
Not a chance. Like the comment below mentions, Snowden probable expected there
were others like him. Nope. Not a one. Very few people have that sort of
conviction.
But mainly, technical work is just different in nature. It’s a lot more
competitive and the hierarchy is more fluid. There’s not an obvious floor like
there is with factory workers, where there are a few managers and
administrators for hundreds of workers. And the work is almost never manual.
Technical workers are also constantly concerned with implementation and that
sh were their attention goes. I don’t ever see this actually happening.
~~~
knuththetruth
Actually, lots of people have that conviction. Over a thousand people inside
Google signed on against the company’s collaboration with the military, there
was all kinds of internal outcry and contention at internal forums, they
pushed strongly back against executives bald-faced lies. It already happened:
[https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-
military...](https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military-
tech-workers)
And here’s the thing about labor struggle: the reason why Capital owners try
to quash it before it gets started is because it’s transformative. Once people
see the power they have when they act collectively, what really turns the
wheels at work and in society, they’re changed.
~~~
buth_lika
> Once people see the power they have when they act collectively
Also, once people see things under the facade, such as
> “Letting you ask that question is the voice that you have. Very few
> companies would allow you to do that.”
------
thebooktocome
It's pretty gross how the author alluded to IBM's involvement on the allied
side in WWII but neglects to mention the nature of those contracts: the
management of concentration camps on both sides.
------
alrs
Grounding Pinochet: [https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/03/nae-pasaran-chile-
coup-sc...](https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/03/nae-pasaran-chile-coup-
scotland-solidarity)
~~~
pjc50
That was what I thought of immediately.
[https://www.scottishdocinstitute.com/films/nae-pasaran-
featu...](https://www.scottishdocinstitute.com/films/nae-pasaran-feature/)
------
growlist
'People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
ready to do violence on their behalf.'
Orwell
~~~
boomboomsubban
Though that wasn't his quote, he says something broadly similar about an
extreme form of pacifism where all fighting is intolerable. It doesn't really
apply here as it's hard to argue that our safety is really threatened if the
US wasn't involved in various wars.
~~~
growlist
If this satisfies you better then: "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only
because others are committing violence on their behalf."
I suppose the problem with taking a position that says 'I'm not going to work
for the military because I disagree with current US foreign policy' is that
if/when an existential threat does arise the US might find itself far behind
its foe, no?
~~~
boomboomsubban
When you quote someone, it's best to do it accurately.
>that if/when an existential threat does arise the US might find itself far
behind its foe, no?
No, or unlikely. Any foreseeable threat is mutually assured destruction, and
someone would need to discover a way to disable all nukes they don't control
simultaneously for the US to be behind their for. Not only does that seem
implausible, actively pursuing the technology would likely cause war.
~~~
growlist
Who's to say your opponent will always be sane, or have something to lose?
It's remarkably blasé to just say meh, MAD. Also there are many threats that
could significantly degrade the US without destroying it, for example anti-
satellite, cyber, to name a couple of obvious examples.
~~~
boomboomsubban
Nothing you've mentioned changes the fact that every truly existential threat
ends up being mutually assured destruction. It's true even with desperate,
insane foes that try a non nuclear attack first.
------
golergka
This article, and some comments, assume that certain political stance is
shared between all the tech workers. Meanwhile, I know quite a lot of people
in tech of many different countries who would be enthusiastic to work for the
military, and would gladly accept lower salaries for the honor.
~~~
swebs
>I know quite a lot of people in tech of many different countries who would be
enthusiastic to work for the military, and would gladly accept lower salaries
for the honor.
Their respective militaries, or the American military?
~~~
golergka
Their respective - which includes american as well.
------
asdfwombatman
If there is a major war, there will be no dilemma. The country with the best
tech will win, the latter will suffer in a way we can not predict.
------
jriot
It is amusing to read people's opinion on the military yet work for Google,
Facebook, Twitter etc... Who put profits above everything else, without
concern for privacy, security or their users. While the US military isn't a
beacon of ethics, it has done far more good for our country than any tech
company.
------
ramoz
This is a subtle argument that tech firms who enable the military are profit
mongers. That is a serious accusation, completely non-empathetic, coming from
someone with experience that merely grants him an overview of the foreign-
affairs landscape, and the military's role in that.
------
pdfernhout
One 1930s essay to read before creating war-focused technology: "War Is A
Racket By Marine Major General Smedley Butler"
[https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html](https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html)
"WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the
most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in
scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the
losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is
not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group
knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at
the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes. ...
For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket;
not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the
international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and
speak out. ..."
------
vonnik
People in tech tend to take extreme positions in the debate about supplying
tech to the military. But the extreme positions -- whether they be pacifist
and assume all military engagement is bad, or militarist and stick to "my
country right or wrong" \-- ignore the real issues.
Even the author seems to present a false dichotomy: either tech is benevolent
to society or it is driven entirely by the profit motive. Tech can have
several motives at once, and one of them may include ensuring the national
security of the country that allows large tech companies to operate smoothly
and peacefully in a relatively uncorrupt and democratic society.
Does tech make money off of defense? Of course. That should come as news to no
one. The DoD is the Fortune 1, the largest customer in the world. There's
nothing wrong with selling to them per se. And there's nothing inherently
wrong with being "compliant", even though the author seems to consider that a
fault.[0][1] We should assume that all major tech companies are fully
compliant. The exist in a matrix of laws they must obey.
One of the important questions we should be asking is: Do we want the US
defense establishment to run on good, modern tech or crappy, outdated tech?
Large sections of it still run on VAX and Cobol, and they will for the
foreseeable future.
It's my personal belief that society is engaged in a global asymmetric war
against militant groups, in a technological context where individual actors
have access to more and more powerful weapons of destruction. I would hope
that the organizations in charge of defending civilians would have the best
technology at their disposal to detect and prevent attacks.
It's also clear that Western liberal society in particular is under attack by
hostile state actors intent on destabilizing the EU and the US democratic
system. The field of battle is online, and if you don't have good tech in that
fight, you lose.
I'm not saying the US military is right all the time, or undeserving of
criticism. But I would ask people who think good technology should not be
supplied to the US military: what outcome do you want? Have you considered the
scenario where West liberal democracy loses, and we replace the imperfect
system we have with a much worse, authoritarian system without democratic
feedback loops. Because that's the endgame if we lose, and we lose without
good tech.
[0] "Major companies had complied with—and profited from—government demands
for unwarranted data collection."
[1] "...tech companies will be forced to choose whether they can feasibly
continue to preach the values of liberal-minded innovation and independence
from big government while serving as its well-paid and compliant partners."
------
newnewpdro
Related:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo)
------
austincheney
This subject quite simply comes down to people wanting to express personal
politics in the office and forming collectives or trends around a given
opinion.
(I am not saying anything for or against the politics motive.)
~~~
nsnick
Not expressing an opinion against immoral things is also a political act. You
are saying that profits should come before everything else.
~~~
dang
Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological arguments. By
the time the discussion gets this generic, there's nothing left but flamewar.
And it's always the same.
Also, re "you are saying", there's an HN guideline that asks you not to argue
this way: " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what
someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to criticize._" That's because
arguing this way consistently leads to more boring comments, and it's easy
enough not to do if you remember the rule.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
~~~
nsnick
My statement very directly refutes the assertion that they are "bringing
politics into the office", when in fact politics are already there.
Summarizing arguments is necessary when people obfuscate the true argument
they are making. Dog whistles are a great example of this. If you can't all an
argument out for what it is, you can't refute it at all.
~~~
dang
When you 'call out' an argument that no one was actually making, you're
lowering discussion quality by quite a bit. Making it personal ("you are
saying $stupid-offensive-thing") doubles the damage. That's why we have that
guideline, so please follow it.
------
pdfernhout
From an essay I wrote in 2010: [https://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-
is-a-key-to-tra...](https://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-
transcending-militarism.html)
Recognizing irony is key to transcending militarism
Military robots like drones are ironic because they are created essentially to
force humans to work like robots in an industrialized social order. Why not
just create industrial robots to do the work instead?
Nuclear weapons are ironic because they are about using space age systems to
fight over oil and land. Why not just use advanced materials as found in
nuclear missiles to make renewable energy sources (like windmills or solar
panels) to replace oil, or why not use rocketry to move into space by building
space habitats for more land?
Biological weapons like genetically-engineered plagues are ironic because they
are about using advanced life-altering biotechnology to fight over which old-
fashioned humans get to occupy the planet. Why not just use advanced biotech
to let people pick their skin color, or to create living arkologies and
agricultural abundance for everyone everywhere?
These militaristic socio-economic ironies would be hilarious if they were not
so deadly serious. ...
Likewise, even United States three-letter agencies like the NSA and the CIA,
as well as their foreign counterparts, are becoming ironic institutions in
many ways. Despite probably having more computing power per square foot than
any other place in the world, they seem not to have thought much about the
implications of all that computer power and organized information to transform
the world into a place of abundance for all. Cheap computing makes possible
just about cheap everything else, as does the ability to make better designs
through shared computing. ...
There is a fundamental mismatch between 21st century reality and 20th century
security thinking. Those "security" agencies are using those tools of
abundance, cooperation, and sharing mainly from a mindset of scarcity,
competition, and secrecy. Given the power of 21st century technology as an
amplifier (including as weapons of mass destruction), a scarcity-based
approach to using such technology ultimately is just making us all insecure.
Such powerful technologies of abundance, designed, organized, and used from a
mindset of scarcity could well ironically doom us all whether through military
robots, nukes, plagues, propaganda, or whatever else... Or alternatively, as
Bucky Fuller and others have suggested, we could use such technologies to
build a world that is abundant and secure for all.
So, while in the past, we had "nothing to fear but fear itself", the thing to
fear these days is ironically ... irony. :-) ...
The big problem is that all these new war machines and the surrounding
infrastructure are created with the tools of abundance. The irony is that
these tools of abundance are being wielded by people still obsessed with
fighting over scarcity. So, the scarcity-based political mindset driving the
military uses the technologies of abundance to create artificial scarcity.
That is a tremendously deep irony that remains so far unappreciated by the
mainstream.
We the people need to redefine security in a sustainable and resilient way.
Much current US military doctrine is based around unilateral security ("I'm
safe because you are nervous") and extrinsic security ("I'm safe despite long
supply lines because I have a bunch of soldiers to defend them"), which both
lead to expensive arms races. We need as a society to move to other paradigms
like Morton Deutsch's mutual security ("We're all looking out for each other's
safety") and Amory Lovin's intrinsic security ("Our redundant decentralized
local systems can take a lot of pounding whether from storm, earthquake, or
bombs and would still would keep working"). [See for example the book "Brittle
Power"] ...
Still, we must accept that there is nothing wrong with wanting some security.
The issue is how we go about it in a non-ironic way that works for everyone.
...
------
crunchlibrarian
It's not a "dilemma", you either support violence or you oppose it.
All this hemming and hawing because people want to be polite and keep their
jobs is silly, just be honest with yourself about your worldview.
------
basicplus2
Everyone has their price..
~~~
56chan4
And its not restricted to tech, everything can be used for good or bad so
invariably everything could have a military application in the right
situation. Perhaps a better argument would be, should innovation and
creativity be banned to avoid its use in Military applications? Still one
thing I learned from a psychology study, is we have longer lasting memories if
they were fearful, perhaps its a survival trait of the brain, which probably
means we should all smoke pot, get paranoid and then go to school as what we
learn will stay fresh in the memory for longer.
~~~
stult
If history is a guide, the research will go on and these protest movements
will have only a superficial effect. Just compare Draper Laboratories to
Lincoln Labs. Both were MIT-owned partnerships focused on military research.
MIT divested of Draper and it was spun off on its own during Vietnam, while
they still hold their stake in Lincoln today. Why the difference? Because
Draper is in downtown Cambridge, where students could easily protest, and
Lincoln is way off in the Boston suburbs. In any case, both labs continue to
carry out military research and maintain very close relationships with MIT and
its graduates. As long as the military continues to pay well, researchers and
tech specialists will continue to work for them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: I don't like my new job, now what? - orangepenguin
Six months ago, I took a new job as a developer. I expected to feel like an outsider for a while. No new job is "comfortable". However, I started to notice that my team is really abrasive. They're always correcting everything, job related or not (how to write code, best way to cook something, reasons for economic changes, etc). I make some comment about the world and get a response like "Well, if you'd studied [such and such] you'd know that... [why you're wrong]". Many of these things are opinion-based anyway. Despite the fact that I bring the most external experience, the guys I work with on a daily basis act like they are trying to teach me how to program. It's really demeaning.<p>What should I do? (What CAN I do?)<p>I've debated talking to my manager about these concerns, but I don't know that there's any way he could address the issues--he can't change the personalities of my team members. Still, I feel he deserves a chance.<p>Should I just quit and go somewhere else? It feels like doing so would make my resume look pretty bad since it hasn't been long. Also, it seems like I owe something to this company for giving me a job and good pay.<p>Are there other ways I can address this?
======
ericzawo
Wanna get back to them and show them they ain't shit? Be profoundly,
intolerably nice to them especially when they 'correct' you. "oh, I didn't
know that! Thanks! Any books specifically you could recommend on (x subject in
the news that's really their hot take)?"
Then, at month 10-11 of working there, begin looking for a new job
immediately.
~~~
namelezz
I don't think this is a good behavior. I think knowledge sharing is good. What
if everyone keeps everything to themselves.
~~~
rnovak
> Be profoundly, intolerably nice
> I don't think this is a good behavior
Being nice/personable isn't a good behavior?
~~~
gargravarr
Being unbearably nice is difficult to pull off without mocking. It's a fine
line generally only walked to make a point.
------
gargravarr
I'll just add my $0.02 and say that sticking a job for a year is not
necessary. I quit my first job shortly after I passed my probation - it was my
first job out of university, and whilst the people weren't toxic, the work
was, and the commute was hell like I have never encountered before. Right
after I passed my probation things actually got worse, because then (as is
normal in the UK) I had a 1-month notice period. I needed money to start
paying my student loans so I'd stuck with the awful job, but once the first 3
months were up, I fell into depression. It was an extremely bleak period in my
life. I was able to pull my boss to one side and talked to him at great length
about the work I was doing, that I didn't feel I was contributing anything
meaningful, that I was wasting my time in the job. He empathised, but there
was little we could do to improve things. I looked at moving teams, but
nothing appealed. We came to conclusion that the company and me were mutually
incompatible. Shortly thereafter, I handed in my notice. I left at the 5-month
mark.
About 6 months later, when I was feeling better, I interviewed for a job
closer to home. When asked about why I was only at my first job for 5 months,
I answered that I left for personal reasons. The matter wasn't pushed, but I
later felt like I'd blown it. Much to my surprise, I got an offer, and a good
one. I'm still at this company 2 and a half years later.
My conclusion is that no job is ever worth staying in if you don't feel like
you're doing anything meaningful. If I'd tried to stick my first job for a
full year, I would have topped myself. I couldn't stand working like that. I
discussed the faults of my old job with my new colleagues after I started here
and they understood.
As long as you're not hopping jobs every few months, you should be able to
convince your interviewer it was a one-off. Don't worry about trying to work a
full year in a toxic environment. Move on if you need to. At the end of the
day, you can put a spin on your resume, but you can't spin your personal
satisfaction with your job.
------
kenesom1
If you think the situation is unlikely to improve, line up a better job and
then quit. You don't have to tolerate a dysfunctional team. It won't affect
your resume or job prospects and joining a better team will enhance your
career.
~~~
nailer
+1 Also next time do some due diligence and check glassdoor.com: every company
has a few people who didn't fit in, but if Glassdoor is pages and pages of
people talking about how dysfunctional the company is, or how bad the culture
is, then you can expect it to be accurate.
------
andrewshatnyy
I might be wrong, but it looks to me you lack confidence. Every time that
happens do anything outside of your comfort zone. In professional context:
Learn a new programming language, get familiar with a new framework, study
fundamental CS. In social context: Go out more, talk to ladies if you're guy,
talk to boys if you're girl.
I sense in your case you're dealing with passioned/opinionated people and you
should take constructive criticism and advance yourself. But don't take shit
from them.
Have your own opinion on things even if it's not the right one. I love
reasonably opinionated conversations because I can learn new from those if I
am wrong or incompetent in certain areas.
In the end you don't owe them anything and they don't owe you anything (aside
from money).
Think of your job as a process of you helping the company with your talent and
time. Move on if it's not fun for you and you don't learn anything new.
~~~
orangepenguin
I really appreciate your feedback. I don't lack confidence, and happily accept
constructive comments from my coworkers. The thing I'm having trouble with is
my coworkers treating me like I'm inexperienced and untrained (both untrue).
They want me to always trust everything they say without question, but don't
want to give my suggestions any consideration. If I discover I'm wrong, I
readily admit this and adopt the correct thinking. If they're wrong, they
belittle me.
What I like about your comment is that it reminds me that I don't need to get
bent out of shape about my coworkers problems. If they aren't good at
accepting feedback, they're the ones who aren't learning and growing. I can
just keep on progressing on my own until I find an opportunity to work
somewhere with a more healthy environment.
------
freakono
This type of personalities are common in the tech world. Get used to it. Don't
let it rock your boat. Do your job, do it the way your superiors want it
done(no matter how you prefer to do it). If they want their eggs scrambbled,
make them scrambbled, if they want them overeasy, make them overweasy. The
customer is always right because they pay you to do it the way they want it.
No need to bring your personal opinions into the work place. If it's too
uncomfortable, like someone else said here, tough it out for a year then make
a move.
~~~
cookiecaper
I upvoted you, because I think this is useful advice to some extent. A lot of
people go into programming because they want to be objectively right all the
time and they can't handle extended interpersonal dealings. Programming gives
them those opportunities; the compiler makes a binary decision about whether
your code is "right" or "wrong", and they can always shut people out by saying
they have to work on code. As such, difficult personalities are very common in
corporate IT. You can't leave every job over it. Gotta suck it up and just
learn to get work done while avoiding your co-workers' triggers unless you
know the problem is truly extreme in your workplace.
~~~
jazzyk
smart/inquisitive != asshole
~~~
cookiecaper
Neither does "smart/inquisitive" mean "must always be proved right" or "can't
talk to people". Your comment does not seem relevant.
~~~
jazzyk
I think you've just agreed with me? Perhaps I should have used "does not
imply" instead of "not equal to". And the comment is relevant, because I claim
that there are many smart people in IT who are not jerks, while you had a
defeatist attitude ("most people in IT are difficult, deal with it".
------
likerofnews
Unfortunately, it sounds like this job isn't a fit for you. I was in the same
position 2 years ago when I joined a company, and four months in, I dreaded
going to work everyday. The CTO liked to mock competitors with young CEOs, the
product manager and eng manager I worked with were racist against Latinos, and
the senior eng team had a dogmatic view on writing software. Needless to say,
I lined up another job and left. It was the best decision I ever made. Now I'm
surrounded by open-minded, supportive, and creative individuals.
------
sjs382
Life is too short to stress about how leaving an unhappy situation will affect
how people will view you professionally—just do it.
------
jacquesm
I was a rookie programmer thinking I was hot shit for a bank a long time ago
and the 'old hands' were pretty much like you describe.
_But_ they were right and it took me a while to appreciate this. Even so
after two years I left my job to start my first company but the experience
gained over those two years was worth gold later on and the combined knowledge
of those people was immense.
I'd suggest you take a different attitude for a bit, assume they are _really_
trying to teach you, engage them and eat up as much of their time as they're
willing to give to educate you. Then, when you've really absorbed all there is
to be absorbed (that could be today, I can't tell from your description) look
for another place where you _again_ can learn a lot. That's the best reason to
change employers: that you've reached a plateau in what you can learn on that
job.
------
kelukelugames
I was in the same boat a year ago. Started a job in June 2014, thought about
leaving in July, and started prepping for interviews in October. I did the
bare minimum and studied for interviews everyday. My boss even caught me
working on leetcode during a meeting. I had to host a couple of team morale
events to avoid suspicion.
I also annoyed management by trying to start a salary spreadsheet. That was
fun.
I stayed till August 2015 because of the 1 year thing and for a whopping
$5,000 worth of options. But after I jumped, I discovered that a lot of people
leave bad jobs within a year. I think it's okay as long as you don't do it
more than once.
Lastly, would you trust someone you barely know? I wouldn't. Don't talk to
your manager.
tl:dr
1\. Life is short and software market is hot.
2\. Get ready to leave but don't make it too obvious. ;)
~~~
covati
That manager advice sound horrible. That is the point of a manager. If you
can't trust them with something as basic and important as team interactions,
then there is a bigger problem.
~~~
dpark
What can a manager possibly do in this situation? "Hey, Boss. Everyone on me
team is an asshole. Can you fix that?"
If it was one person on the team causing problems, it could make sense to talk
with the manager. If the entire team is toxic (or a bad fit for OP), there is
little to nothing the manager can do except maybe help OP move to a different
team.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying it's a _bad_ idea to talk to the manager,
unless the manager is one of the toxic team members. But I'm not sure it's
very useful, either.
~~~
techcode
Maybe manager says "So it's not just me thinking that", or "I've noticed guys
can be pretty hard on you at times. Since you haven't brought it up, I thought
you're ok with it"...
I can think of million other things that might or might not happen.
And I know only one way to really find out - try and see. Are there other
ways?
~~~
dpark
Suppose the manager has those reactions. What then? They'll sit down with the
team and have the "don't be mean" talk? I'm just not sure I see that working
well. That seems more likely to breed resentment even if it resolves the
superficial "combative" behavior.
I'd probably try talking to the individual team members 1:1. As uncomfortable
as that would be, I think it is a better bet than having it come from the
manager.
~~~
orangepenguin
Good point. If I am as mature an adult as I believe myself to be, I ought to
be able to have a peaceful conversation about this with a couple of coworkers
individually. Definitely would be better than putting them on the defensive by
sending a manager after them.
------
devnonymous
After many years and many jobs i've bought into this philosophy - good work
environment, good work and good pay; 3 out of 3 is ideal, 2 out of the 3 is
minimum. If you can't get at least 2 out of those 3, just quit. Don't worry
about how it would look on your resume. If you know your stuff there will
always be places who will accept 'toxic work environment' as a reasonable
explanation for quitting a job. In fact, if you are going to use that excuse,
it is better that you quit now rather than a year from now to avoid answering
the question 'if it was so bad, why did you stick around for over a year? '
------
patorjk
Leave. You will not be able to change the personalities of those you work with
and going above their heads to complain will not put you in a better position
(unless doing so could move you to another team). One job stint at 6 months
will not hurt you. I would argue your work environment is the most important
part of your job. You spend a lot of your waking hours with these people, you
don't want to be miserable.
------
pawelkomarnicki
From my personal experience, I can say that such teams are toxic and you have
2 options: 1) don't say anything publicly, just focus on the work, and 2)
leave. If the company has a huge turnover (like the one I worked at), nobody
will say anything about leaving quickly. Just be confident, you cannot lower
your value as a developer and human being just to fit some bad, toxic place.
------
drinchev
I've always had this scenario in my head ... Here is what I think you should
do :
1\. Tell your boss you quit, because of the facts you point here. Tell your
co-workers you quit, because you are not satisfied with the job. ( You will
have done the best thing for the company if you do that ).
2\. Find a new job/work and don't talk about why you quit your previous job in
details. Just tell your new boss : "Well I wasn't satisfied with the team. I
didn't have a chance to be valuable, because of their closed-culture. They
didn't want anything more from me than being a non-thinking programmer.".
Trust me, he will like this. If he doesn't you will end up in the same company
3\. In between ... start working on an open source project with good
reputation to gain back your confidence ( if you've lost something out of your
job ). Even one Merged pull request is a big deal in those moments.
If all of this doesn't work. Let me know. I'm living in Berlin and I think I
can find something for you if you want to relocate.
~~~
beeboop
If a job candidate told me their previous team had a closed-culture and was
unappreciative of their talents I would think it was the candidate who was
difficult and thought too highly of himself.
I would simply stick the lines of "The work they had me doing wasn't where my
strengths really were. I think there was some miscommunication during the
hiring process as to what the job really entailed". All of which is true in
OP's case - it wasn't communicated to him how incompatible he would be with
his team and he's not going to perform his best work there. This method
doesn't place blame on anyone (important) and doesn't make you sound difficult
or overly particular.
------
it_learnses
Yep get another job offer and leave. If they try to convince you to stay with
a higher pay or something, don't take it because they will let you go as soon
as they get a chance anyway.
You can mention in your exit interview that your manager was nice and you were
leaving due to a dysfunctional team if you want.
------
la6470
Staying there for a whole year will kill your soul
Anyway that's gonna happen as you grow up
------
treebeard901
In my opinion, you should only go to your manager if it has an effect on your
work. Even then it's rare. Since you're the new guy and the others have
presumably been there for a while... You will find it difficult to make your
case. You risk running up against the trope of not being a 'team player'.
Honestly what you described does not sound that bad. You should think about
other similar situations in your past that you have had with other people and
try to see if you have a pattern of needing to be right. It is entirely
possible you are externalizing some fault in your own personality.
Regardless, look at it as a learning opportunity. If you can't handle the
various personalities in the world without it effecting you on a personal
level, you're going to have a tough time.
~~~
orangepenguin
Very good comments. What I failed to mention in my original post was that I
feel that the discussions are really one-sided. My co-workers expect me to
listen to and do everything they say, and don't want to hear any suggestions
from me. I'm fine with other people considering my suggestions and then
deciding against them. I'm not okay with coworkers who just reject my ideas
because they came from the new guy.
I do think you're right about tolerating different personalities, and about
talking to a manager. I'll tread carefully.
------
debacle
It's a job-shoppers' market right now. Six months is a fine time to work in a
caustic environment. Explain yourself clearly and it wont matter at all.
------
techcode
Always? Everything?
There's not even one example where they reacted in a "nice way"?
Seems you haven't told them how such thing make you feel?
Maybe it's not personality, and perhaps they don't know this stuff is
bothering you...
Definitely talk to your manager, and try talking to your team as well.
Focus on observations/examples as well as how those situations make you feel.
I agree that life is too short, and IT is full of "difficult" people. Instead
of running away from it, get better in dealing with them.
~~~
orangepenguin
You're right. I did misrepresent the situation. I've had quite a few positive
experiences there too. Some of the best feedback I've gotten from this thread
is that I should be looking at my own behavior and considering whether or not
I'm doing my part to learn and be friendly to work with. I still may consider
a job change in time, but I should be careful about where I place blame and
what accusations I throw around.
------
yanilkr
In many cases, if you are a new person, other people are still testing
boundaries. I had a similar experience before. I sarcastically asked a co-
worker if he has been an asshole all his life or just today because of the
weather. That set things right that one time.
There is a first time to everything. If you move away, you are moving away
from an opportunity to deal with things you never dealt with before. Your job
is not so precious as you think. Try different approaches, be confrontational
when you want to be, you don't have to be nice anymore, try to overcome this
and you would be a much better person for yourself and others. Why do you have
to be the one that goes to the manager, why cant you send your colleagues to
the manager? Your manager might trust you more if you learn to deal with
situations yourself.
It is possible some of my advice might seem "bad or condescending" but who
cares I said what I wanted to say.
I happened to watch this old Andy Griffith show, it might be relevant.
[https://vimeo.com/66146806](https://vimeo.com/66146806)
------
JoeAltmaier
Leave. Explain the resume issue: "It was a toxic working environment".
~~~
metasean
a) As described, it isn't a "toxic environment". My previous job the boss
would go on verbal and physical tirades almost daily (cursing loud enough to
be heard through multiple walls, throwing hardware, ripping a door off its
hinges, etc). Meanwhile, in one job, my mother had a boss made them work
through a breakdown of the A/C. Their _office_ temperatures were exceeding 100
degrees and most of the full-time staff were over 50 years old. This
ultimately led to that boss' death at her own desk. Those are "toxic
environments". As the OP described their situation, the environment is
certainly not supportive, and is uncomfortable and demoralizing, but it
doesn't sound like their physical welfare is in jeopardy, so it shouldn't be
called 'toxic'.
b) As cookiecaper indicated, you should focus on the positives of the job
you're interviewing for, not the negatives of the current job. For example,
"I'm looking for a more respectful and collegial work environment that
supports mutual skill development." The interviewer may take that as "this
person is coming from an unsupportive environment" but it could also be taken
as "this person is coming from a so-so, hum-drum environment and simply wants
a better environment."
------
random_coder
As far as your work is concerned, if you believe your code or design choices
are valid, don't accept their corrections or suggestions so easily. Explain
your choices and listen to them seriously. Let THEM convince you why you're in
the wrong. Ask for clarifications and don't let them leave until you are fully
convinced. Stand up for yourself, OP.
------
DrSayre
I would leave if I was you, but I would leave on good terms. I had a job where
I was in a similar position as OP, however another issue was my job was in
SharePoint/SAP and I knew I wanted to be a Rails developer. That made my
situation a lot easier to leave. I told my boss that working with SAP and
SharePoint wasn't for me and that I wanted to get back to doing what I wanted
to do. Because I left on good terms, I can probably go back if I ever wanted
to... (but hopefully I won't have to!)
After thinking about it some more, I would consider if you like what you are
doing. There was several people I dreaded seeing everyday, but I also didnt
like what I was doing and wanted to go back to doing something I liked doing.
Both of those problems made it pretty easy for me to leave my job. If you like
what you are doing, I would try to make it work or at least stick it out long
enough to find another job doing that.
------
muyfine
There's a great tangentially related article around this by Malcolm Gladwell
on Albert Hirschman:
[http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/24/the-gift-of-
dou...](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/24/the-gift-of-doubt)
[http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674276604](http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674276604)
'makes a basic distinction between alternative ways of reacting to
deterioration in business firms and, in general, to dissatisfaction with
organizations: one, “exit,” is for the member to quit the organization or for
the customer to switch to the competing product, and the other, “voice,” is
for members or customers to agitate and exert influence for change “from
within.”'
Hope that helps you figure out whether to use your voice or your feet!
~~~
edhebert
I once got this advice as, "Either change your organization or change your
organization."
------
DanielBMarkham
This sounds like a personality conflict.
Old joke: "Personality conflict" is one of those code phrases for "Somebody
here is an asshole"
Seriously, though, team members have certain styles, and teams fit together in
a certain way. Most companies never figure out that you can take 4 or 5 great
teams, remix all the people, then end up with 4 or 5 horrible teams. It's not
skills -- a lot has to do with the way the personalities mix.
If you are completely out to sea -- unaware of how to continue -- perhaps you
just name it and shame it. "Hey Joe, I see you're trying to teach me error
handling again although I've been doing this longer than you have. Okay if I
start doing the same to you?" Then start doing it.
Was working with a CEO of a small company once. I think they had around
100-120 employees, all knowledgeable about a certain part of tech. I was
brought in also as somebody who knew what he was doing, but since I was
working directly with the CEO, I kind of held back a bit to see how he worked.
Bad decision. He ran over me. The first time he mentioned something they had
invited me in on, I tried to raise my hand. He ignored me. The second time I
was a little more insistent. By Day 3, he started in on the same topic again,
I simply said "You know, I've written a couple of small books about this and
devised my own training material. But what the hell do I know?"
I wish I could say that solved the problem. It did not. He was still an
asshole and we didn't get along. But I had to take what he was doing to me and
do it right back to him for him to be able to see it. I got to start doing the
work they had hired me for. If we had continued working together after that
first week, it would have probably gotten very interesting!
Either you walk or give as good as you get. If you're shy and the others are
domineering, passive and passive/aggressive techniques are just going to make
it worse.
------
staunch
Good companies don't worry about "job hoppers" because they know a good
environment usually solves the "problem". Consider it a red flag when a
company has weird policies or treats you in ways you would not treat people.
------
JSeymourATL
> but I don't know that there's any way he could address the issues...
Biggest headache for a boss is getting team members to play nice with each
other.
The ability to solve problems with ones peers is a desirable managerial
quality. Interpersonal savvy is very much a learned & practiced skill. This
could prove a huge opportunity for your professional growth.
Suggest reading up in this area, Robert Bolton's book on People Skills is a
good place to start >
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/65327.People_Skills](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/65327.People_Skills)
Ultimately, moving on to a new company is easy. But dealing with difficult
peers never fully goes away.
~~~
issaria
> But dealing with difficult peers never fully goes away.
Pure wisdom.
~~~
issaria
The downvote just proved that one can never avoid asshole in a company and on
the internet.
------
efes
I'd look closely at how they interact with each other. It is entirely possible
that they are genuinely looking for debates to get to the bottom of things
(which can often go to the point of comedy in tech circles.) There are a lot
of ways to get along in that kind of environment by picking your battles and
knowing when to change subjects..
But if you don't find a way to get along with them that suites you, then I
would recommend going on interviews as soon as possible to gauge your markets
reaction. Just don't say anything bad about them; you can always find an
arbitrary difference between two employers and pretend that difference is a
little more significant to you.
------
cookiecaper
You can give your manager the chance to make a modification, but you should be
mentally prepared to leave before you do that. They probably won't fire you
just for explaining some interpersonal difficulties, but it will mark you as a
dissatisfied employee and fundamentally change your relationship with the
company. You'll be at the top of the list for layoffs or other adverse action.
Don't go into this with any expectation that anything will get fixed. Most
likely, the manager will take your concerns to your co-workers and tell them
to fly right, they'll make a token effort for a couple of weeks, and it'll go
right back to the way it was after that.
~~~
techcode
If you go into anything with mindset that nothing will change - it's more
likely that it will not change.
And if it turns out company is so bad and reacts like you've described - then
you at least know you really don't want to be working there anymore.
And when someone in the future asks you "What did you do (to improve/change
situation)?" you can say "I tried! I gave it my best - specifically this and
that and ..."
------
will_pseudonym
I experienced this exact phenomenon when I took a job in a new region (Pacific
NW). Out of the team of 6 non-managers, half were amazing and fun people. The
other three were myopic, antisocial assholes. Add to that my manager was an
absentminded professor type, and his boss was super intense/smart, and scared
the living day lights out of everyone because she didn't understand that new
employees needed help understanding what concepts she was explaining.
The point is, I was miserable, and after 3-4 months I knew it was not the
right team for me. I found a new job quickly (networking, kids!) and once I
found out my new start date I had a talk with my immediate manager and told
him why I was leaving. I told him about the toxic culture. I told him about
being made to feel stupid because I had tried to build process improvements
which amounted to moving someone's cheese a few millimeters. He understood,
and was grateful. I told the HR person about the team dynamics. I told her
that this toxic attitude towards change would continue to drive talented
people like me out of the organization. She profusely thanked me and said that
it had been the best exit interview she had ever had.
Fast forward 6 months on my new job, and I'm unhappy here for entirely
different reasons. Time to start looking again!
I absolutely do think you should talk to your manager. If you don't, you are
missing an opportunity to practice the skill of having difficult
conversations, and you're short changing whomever comes into your job after
you, who'll have to have that conversation, too. Plus, your manager might
surprise you. She/he might have a way to make you happy! Do start looking for
a new job today. And for the love of all that's holy, make your next interview
all about figuring out what the people will be like to work with. Don't come
to the interview from a place of "I have to get this job." Come at it like a
date. You're trying to arrive at a mutually beneficial fit. Don't try to
impress them; just be yourself and see if there's a spark!
You don't owe them anything in the United States unless you're under contract.
What you kind of do owe them as a good person is to talk to your manager
before deciding to quit.
------
LoSboccacc
"Job hopper stink" only really apply if you have two consecutive short shifts.
Be sure to change job with an offer in hand and double check the culture in
the new place as you will be stuck there for longer.
As a side note, culture fit is a two way road, but from the post you wrote
they are all monster while you bring all the objectivity and experience. You
might want to review the way the story is told, because, frankly, there are
quite some red flags that come from it.
------
dimgl
Hello OP.
I just spent a year at a company that was toxic towards team members who
simply did not an aggressive personality. I was one of those team members. It
led me to become pessimistic and depressed, and my positive outlook on life
quickly changed and I became the most negative I've ever been. I began to
constantly criticize IT and development decisions unconsciously, and it got so
bad that eventually even the simplest JavaScript code would piss me off.
I started looking around and I got a job offer. As soon as I was going to
accept the job offer, someone at my current employer discovered that I was
planning to leave and my boss caught wind of it (I suspect I left my computer
open). My boss pulled me aside and actually convinced me to stay because of
the prospects of success. The company had already given me big bonuses and had
very good benefits. That was four months ago. I made the choice to stay in a
toxic environment just for some arbitrary gain.
Three weeks ago, out of seemingly nowhere, I got fired. I let go of a valuable
opportunity because I convinced myself of some arbitrary gains by staying and
I had fears of leaving.
I was desperate to find another job and I accepted a terrible offer using
terrible technology. I thought I was fucked; I was severely depressed because
it was the first time I had gotten fired from a serious position. But I got
lucky. Although I'm now working at another company with terrible technology
(ASP.NET Web Forms), the people are the nicest and sweetest coworkers I've
ever met. I'm happier here, working with shitty technology and shitty
prospects, just because my environment is that much better. And I'm not
settling here: I am constantly looking for better positions (and contracts)
and looking to advance my career until I find the company that I fit in and is
a good fit for me as well.
DON'T SETTLE. LEAVE. If you're not happy, don't stay in the position you're
in. Unless you need to build your resume or gain experience, there's no reason
for you to stay faithful to a company with a toxic environment. You're going
to be there eight hours a day, and if things don't work out they will
IMMEDIATELY fire you and you'll be fucked, like I was. Usually a toxic
environment simply means that you don't fit, and they will let you go simply
for not being a fit. Don't make the mistake I made; leave.
One last thing: good developers tend to be overly critical, but that doesn't
mean all overly critical people are good developers or even good workers. Many
developers have terrible social skills and are unable to properly and
professionally express their opinions or thoughts. Don't let anyone tell you
how you should be treated or what you should be okay with. If you have a gut
feeling that the people you work with are unprofessional, don't brush it off
as "oh, they're developers. That's how all developers are." This is a fucking
cop-out. I have met plenty competent developers who are able to give
constructive criticism without being a complete dick.
~~~
hardwaresofton
Just a note -- If you feel like the technology is shitty/outdated, update it
:)
If you're in a company with good employees, they'll realize the effort you're
putting in benefits all of them, and they'll reward you for it (at least
socially, if not monetarily). The other devs will thank you, and most likely
shower you with praise and love
~~~
dimgl
I am currently in the process of educating my coworkers on newer technologies
and methodologies, and it may work in my favor. It is the reason I am not so
bothered by the technical debt; my peers are very interested in learning new
things and taking this company to the next level. I would not feel the same if
they were very close minded and not subject to change at all.
~~~
hardwaresofton
Awesome to hear! I often long to return to some previous jobs I've worked at
which had somewhat inferior tech/methodology, since I feel like I could do so
much good and really move the organization forward.
Awesome that you're taking time to educate your coworkers on the newer tech
and methodologies! Even better that they're receptive and are learning.
There's some pretty cool stuff in newer versions of the .NET ecosystem
------
limeyx
I definitely know that feeling. Prepare to leave is my best advice.
But I'd advise (depending on your circumstances of savings, chances of getting
a new job soon etc) to not simply quit, but use a bit of time to really put
yourself in a strong position to get a new job w/out the pressure of needing
one.
if its a big company maybe you could transfer to a new team ?
------
Recurecur
If possible, stick it out for a year. Many hiring managers view that as
fulfilling your initial obligations after being hired (hiring expense etc.).
Try to find a way to make lemonade with the lemons you work with. Maybe you'll
teach them a thing or two. Also, possibly some of their criticism is valid,
regardless of how poorly delivered...
~~~
RogerL
> Many hiring managers view that as fulfilling your initial obligations after
> being hired (hiring expense etc.).
Some do. I'd rather have somebody leave ASAP so I can bring somebody in that
will stay, be happy, and excel at the job. Why have somebody work for 1 year
just to walk away? Hiring costs are sunk; you shouldn't be computing value
based on sunk costs.
------
chrismbarr
Work is one thing, your co-workers are another. If you don't like the people
you are spending 40+ hours a week with, I'd begin looking for something else.
It sounds like you've given it a pretty fair shot. Software is easy to fix
compared to people.
How long have you been there so far?
~~~
domain_
> Six months ago, I took a new job as a developer.
The first sentence.
------
emocin
Agree with the manager sentiment. It's their job to manage the team.
Failing that, I'd find a new job; you don't owe the company anything
(literally) and you owe it to yourself to not be miserable.
------
gnaritas
You don't owe them anything; leave, as soon as you can.
------
presidentender
Get a new job. If you consistently job-hop, that establishes a pattern of
behavior. Leaving one job one time can be explained by poor fit.
------
Madlib
Hang in there and save up for 5-6 months of cushion money first, then dip. lol
------
namelezz
Sharing knowledge is not bad.
------
centrinoblue
Life is too short get out
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Tips for 1:1 with employees - bankim
http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-good-tips-for-a-1-1-with-your-employees
======
bartonfink
Tip 0: Do them. Seriously, it's a relatively minimal investment in time, but
it goes a long way towards eliminating unpleasant surprises and making sure
employees feel valued.
Every manager I've had claims they operate under an "open door" policy, and
encourages people to bring concerns to them. This sounds great on paper,
because it shows a buzzwordy commitment to communication. It's also nice
because it absolves management of any need to keep tabs on their employees. If
someone quits out of the blue because they don't feel like they're being used,
it's not management's fault for not recognizing that - it's the employee's
fault for not bringing it up.
The problem is that, if I am unhappy with some important aspect of my work
(pay, lack of challenging work, the fact that my manager hasn't listened
before, whatever), my manager is one of the last people I want to bring this
information to. If the perception is that my problems aren't important enough
for management to want to learn about them, then why should I expect
management will want to help me solve them (by recommending me for a raise,
transfer to a different area), new manager, etc)?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Startup Project is for Sale - kanebennett
http://www.startupproject.org/2011/04/startup-project-sale/
======
kanebennett
I'd love to have some bids from HN readers in particular!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple Patents Wraparound Edge-Mounted iPhone Displays With Virtual Buttons - antoniojd
http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/13/apple-patents-wraparound-edge-mounted-iphone-displays-with-virtual-buttons/
======
madeofpalk
Haha cool. They patended a Dribbble trend!
See the 'infinity screen' that was a bit of a thing on Dribbble a while back:
[https://dribbble.com/shots/1190633-iPhone-6-Infinity](https://dribbble.com/shots/1190633-iPhone-6-Infinity)
[https://dribbble.com/shots/1188123-Adventurous-Reader-
Mobile...](https://dribbble.com/shots/1188123-Adventurous-Reader-Mobile-Site-
WIP)
[https://dribbble.com/shots/1191226-Iphone-6-Wrap-Around-
scre...](https://dribbble.com/shots/1191226-Iphone-6-Wrap-Around-screen)
[https://dribbble.com/shots/1190796-Side-
Screen](https://dribbble.com/shots/1190796-Side-Screen)
[https://dribbble.com/shots/1192384-Iphone-6-infinity-
screen-...](https://dribbble.com/shots/1192384-Iphone-6-infinity-screen-
Social-App)
[https://dribbble.com/shots/1191824-Translucent-Infinity-
scre...](https://dribbble.com/shots/1191824-Translucent-Infinity-screen)
~~~
loceng
And yet they can do this because it's first to file now in the U.S., not first
to invent.
~~~
MCRed
A picture of an idea or feature is not an invention. This is why the move 2001
is not "prior art".
The methods to bring an idea to fruition are an invention and are patentable.
They're quite different.
Unfortunately, most people here on HN seem think that patents are on ideas,
not inventions.
~~~
WildUtah
_Unfortunately, most people here on HN seem think that patents are on ideas,
not inventions._
Unfortunately, the Patent Office and the Court Of Appeals for the Federal
Circuit (the patent court) agree with the people who think patents are on
ideas, not inventions.
The PTO and courts actually prefer nothing but an idea in software,
semiconductor, and user interface patents. “As a general rule, where software
constitutes part of a best mode of carrying out an invention, description of
such a best mode is satisfied by a disclosure of the functions of the
software. This is because, normally, writing code for such software is within
the skill of the art, not requiring undue experimentation, once its functions
have been disclosed. * * * Thus, flow charts or source code listings are not a
requirement for adequately disclosing the functions of software.” [0]
But that's the state of patent practice in most subject areas now. And plenty
of videos like 2001 have been used as prior art against user experience
patents, since the patents usually include little or no technological content.
Apple's billion dollar slide-to-unlock, rubber band, and various other patents
don't describe even the kinetics of behavior in the patents much less the
implementation.
[0] [http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-federal-
circuit/1229938.html](http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-federal-
circuit/1229938.html)
~~~
throwawaykf05
Let's be honest now: how often do you see a patent and think to yourself,
"Gosh, this patent is really complicated and the text is just not explanatory
enough, I really wish I had some code or flowcharts to make it clearer!"
Most patents (software or otherwise) are of a complexity where a person of
ordinary skill in the art can re-implement it from scratch with a fair level
of fidelity by reading _just the abstract_. Triviality of implementation is
not the same as obviousness. And just because software makes it very easy to
go from idea to implementation does not mean it's not an invention.
~~~
WildUtah
_how often do you see a patent and think to yourself, "Gosh, this patent is
really complicated_
Never. Software patents are almost always intended to monopolize some trivial
and obvious function in such a way as to make the established users of that
function pay a grifter who juked the Patent Office. There's no reason to
patent anything complicated in software because you could just work around it.
_Triviality of implementation is not the same as obviousness._
No, triviality of implementation is a superset of obviousness. There are
obvious things that are nontrivial to implement, but there are no non-obvious
things that are trivial to implement.
~~~
throwawaykf05
_> There are obvious things that are nontrivial to implement, but there are no
non-obvious things that are trivial to implement_
Diffie Hellman key exchange
RSA
They both have 1 or 2 liners in various languages, google them.
------
higherpurpose
Like this?
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Samsung_Youm_C...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Samsung_Youm_Concept_Device.jpg)
~~~
MCRed
The difference between features and inventions should be easy to grasp- there
are different ways to implement a feature.
For instance, there are more than one type of internal combustion engine, and
each type has been (quite legitimately) patented:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine)
~~~
higherpurpose
Just like there are different ways to implement slide to unlock. Yet, I think
Apple was claiming ownership over all the ways to do it (finger moving from
one point to another to unlock the device, or something like that).
------
throwawaykf05
Again: read the claims. From a quick glance, it seems a single flexible screen
is used _within_ a case, and the same screen presents the main display as well
as the side display through a window in the side of the case (presumably the
flexible display is bent at the sides.) That seems like an interesting
approach I have not seen discussed before, and I can see some advantages
(fewer components at the cost of potentially wasted screen real estate.)
Also, that should make moot the discussions so far on this thread about
fragility of the design and validity of this patent.
------
djloche
Maybe they have something more specific... but haven't we seen stuff like this
every January for the past few years or more? I recall at least two major
manufacturers demoing this.
------
leviathan
And now you can break your screen whichever way you drop your phone.
------
meepmorp
So, basically, any phone case can't be used.
Hopefully the unobtanium glass screens will be in production by then so it
won't matter so much.
~~~
k-mcgrady
When people _need_ a case to protect your product from breaking you have a
problem. Until the iPhone 5s I never had a case I rarely dropped my phone. The
5s is like a bar of soap. If I were to use it without the case I doubt I'd get
more than a few weeks without a smashed screen. It's a major usability issue
imo.
~~~
dpcx
Isn't that essentially what bumpers on cars are for? To prevent the product
from breaking?
~~~
mikepurvis
Yeah, but they come with it.
It's not something you have to remember to pick up and install yourself on the
way home from the dealership.
------
bruceb
Wrap around screens have been speculated about for a long time, how is putting
buttons on it non obvious?
~~~
user24
It may be obvious, but the thinking is, surely, that if they don't patent it
someone else will.
~~~
noonespecial
And so the circle is complete. From patenting something because it's not
obvious to so things being so obvious we'd better patent them.
~~~
user24
I'm not defending the practice, just explaining.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Don Rosa: Why I Quit - Hupo
http://career-end.donrosa.de/
======
praptak
_"But it’s an unfortunate fact that there have never been, and I ultimately
realized there never will be, any royalties paid to the people who write or
draw or otherwise create all the Disney comics you’ve ever read."_
Please remember the above quote next time you hear some corporate puppet bring
up the "starving artist" argument in a copyright policy debate.
~~~
skymt
Don't frame it like that. It's dishonest.
Corporations withholding royalties from artists is _obviously bad_. But it's
entirely consistent to condemn such abuse while still supporting the idea that
artists ought to be repaid for their work.
~~~
tptacek
Corporations withholding royalties from salaried employees with whom no
agreement was made regarding royalties is not "obviously bad".
~~~
skymt
Point taken. My objection was to praptak's generalized false dilemma of
corporations cheating their employees versus weak copyright and widely
accepted file sharing. Don Rosa's case is indeed more complex.
------
adrianonantua
This guy's history speaks volumes about success and being good at something.
People who want to get into Software business because of money and people who
want to learn how to play the guitar because of popularity have one thing in
common: they only envision the outcome. They daydream of sitting on a load of
cash or being surrounded by friends (and girls) when playing a tune.
People who get really successful at something enjoy the freaking process. Most
of the times (if not all) they don't even realize they are heading for
success: they are too busy enjoying the improvement of their craft.
------
zeitg3ist
I grew up reading Don's comics, and my D.U.C.K. book is so worn that it
doesn't have a cover anymore. Hell, in my old room I still have his
(wonderfully and finely detailed, as usual) Duck genealogical tree poster.
Despite all this, I knew nothing about the man himself, which - judging from
this heartfelt article - is as good and intelligent as his comics. It's sad to
see he stopped writing, mostly because there's no one there to fill his gap --
and it's a huge gap, as huge as those left by Floyd Gottfredson and Carl
Barks.
~~~
pimeys
I also own every duck book he ever released. I grew up with his and Carl
Barks' comics. I still enjoy them.
Btw, Don Rosa and Carl Barks are almost like national heroes in Finland where
I grew up. When Carl Barks visited the country, there were people on the
streets celebrating. Don Rosa's visits are also a big thing.
~~~
pimeys
Here's a video from 1994 when Carl Barks had his first visit in Helsinki. The
streets were full of people celebrating. He was kind of a rock star in the
country.
[http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/artikkelit/carl_barks_suomessa_14...](http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/artikkelit/carl_barks_suomessa_14320.html#media=14325)
------
thurn
I might not understand the complaint here. I don't get paid royalties on the
software I write either, because my employer owns the copyright to my work.
That licensing arrangement suits both of us because I would like to collect a
salary without assuming the risk that my work won't be profitable. It's not an
exploitive relationship.
~~~
milfot
The thing is, you are actually assuming the risk that your work is not
profitable.. if the work is your personal work, your employer may sack you or
withhold a raise. if the work is your team's then you share the risk, unless
your team is the only team and then your employer goes out of business.
It is (usually) an exploitative relationship, most just don't know it. The
fact that this arrangement is the norm speaks only of the power differential
and nothing of fairness. Could you imagine what would happen to management if
employees got a fair share of the work they produced.. for that matter, how
much of Don's profits came from his hand and how much from the advertisers and
how much from Disney's distribution network? Why are advertisers paid so much
and box packers paid so little?
The fact that so many of us accept this system is because we don't have the
power to demand profits (or we don't know any better) and we need to eat. We
just tell ourselves that we prefer to earn a little less so we don't have to
worry about risk. It makes it easier to sleep at night.
~~~
crazygringo
Not really. Once you get into understanding how investors, investment and VC,
etc. work, the mathematics of risk and payoff become very clear. If you, as an
investor, are throwing millions of dollars into a product that requires
millions of dollars, and has only a 10% chance of success, then you a
commensurate share of the payoff as well, which may even be most of it.
At my last job, I got to choose the balance between salary and equity I wanted
-- and I really had to calculate if I wanted to earn a little less (or a lot
less) in exchange for a greater share of future profits. Or to earn a little
more (or a lot more) in exchange for giving that up. And having gained quite a
bit of knowledge from the investor side of things, at least here in the tech
industry in NYC, I don't think it's accurate at all to say it's "usually an
exploitative relationship". At least, as long as employees bother to figure
out how it all works.
Of course your employer can sack you or withold a raise. But of course _you_
can leave for another company, or tell them _you're_ leaving if they _don't_
give you a raise.
But you've got to have enough skill to be of value, and enough negotiating
skill not to be taken advantage of, as well. Just like a company has to have
enough skill not to hire not to be taken advantage of by _its_ employees --
the employees who don't contribute, the employees who spend more time playing
politics, etc.
~~~
milfot
Absolutely! I agree with your whole post. I was meaning 'usually' in the sense
of usual employer / employee relationships.
Most employee's do not know, nor know how to find out, their net worth to the
company. They definitely do not get offered equity.
Most companies go to some lengths to obfuscate the earnings from their
employees and contractually forbid their employees from speaking about their
own earnings. Most employees, even if armed with such knowledge, do not have
the power to demand their worth as there are a large queue of eager
replacements for their position.
My point was essentially, if someone thinks they are trading off rewards /
equity / ip royalties etc for job security, they probably do not have a good
understanding of their relationship or value to their employer.
Don seems to have known full well what he was trading off, and as he explained
when he drew the line and exercised his right to negotiate "they simply
refused to actually ask permission". They refused to negotiate as they were so
used to being in a position of power.
"But you've got to have enough skill to be of value" I would say, you have to
have enough skill to be of 'great' value.. then you have the power to
negotiate or go elsewhere. If you do.. more power to you!
~~~
Evbn
You don't need great value, you just need two prospective buyers to compete.
------
RexRollman
This article is a good example of why I don't buy non-creator owned comics
(aside from the fact that I view Marvel and DC comics from 1990-on to be pure
shit). I know most comic fans don't give a shit but I do.
------
LefterisJP
Wow I never expected to see an article about Don Rosa in HN. This is a really
sad turn of events which I was not aware of. I grew up with Carl Barks's and
Don Rosa's comics and thoroughly enjoyed each one of their stories, was
inspired and moved by them. He leaves some pretty big shoes to be filled.
Thank you Don, for everything you have done and for being with me through all
my childhood( and beyond) through your stories
------
afterburner
btw, advice to anyone who experiences it, if you think your retina is
detaching, SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY. (If that wasn't obvious from
the article.)
------
senorcastro
9 volumes!
------
lifeguard
TL;DR:
Disney sucks to work with.
------
Evbn
> Most Americans retire after 30 – 35 years.
------
kkowalczyk
It seems it all boils down to this: he didn't make as much money as he wanted.
I don't want to trivialize the issue: making money is not easy, but the guy
over-plays the victim card.
He seems to be a successful artist. He quits and it's all a fault of _other_
people, who don't pay him as much as he deserves.
Again, not to trivialize the issue, but an artist with a lot of fans should be
able to find a way to make money.
Did he try to follow the steps of many cartoonists that make decent money
doing daily cartoons on the web, like theotmealguy?
Did he try to create anything outside of work-for-hire arrangement that he
entered (willingly, as a consenting adult) into with Disney?
No evidence of that.
According to him, it's just the system conspires against poor artist.
According to me, he's just a lousy businessman who lacks awareness of his own
shortcomings and oblivious to many ways he could have made money with his art.
Instead he chose a safe route of employment and as an adult he should
understand that it also usually comes with limited upside.
If he wanted a bigger upside, he should have taken more risks.
~~~
zeitg3ist
I don't think you read his article very well. He doesn't give a shit about
making money. He's just pointing out that in the Disney comic system there are
no royalties and artists get exploited.
~~~
pmelendez
I don't think this is particular to the Disney comic. How many game developers
are being paid proportionally with sales? Usually sales and marketing people
are the ones with those benefits, not the content generators. On a flip side,
is not like they invest any money on the final product as they are generally
being paid as a regular job.
~~~
pandaman
Before 7th generation pretty much everyone paid royalties in the games. I
believe one of the major reasons the industry is in shambles now is that, with
the advance of the 7th generation, 3d parties moved to cut off royalties
either by acquiring studios or by rigging contracts. Still, 3d party owned
studios working on profitable titles are paying bonuses that are proportional
to sales more or less. For example, check out Activision vs. Infinity Ward GMs
lawsuit.
~~~
chipsy
I think that with respect to game royalties, that ship set sail a long time
ago. Publishers in the earliest generations would often give creators huge
royalties, and it's just been on a gradual decline since then.
The topsy-turvy situation the industry is in now, though, has countless
factors - it's going to be discussed for years to come, and the signs of
disruption are appearing on all fronts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The story of a geek turned customer support representative and salesman - acharekar
http://avlesh.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/the-story-of-a-geek-turned-customer-support-representative-and-salesman/
======
gecco
Do you/they plan to have a sales team ?
~~~
avlesh-singh
Yes, but somewhere down the line. We are of the opinion that being creators of
the tool, we are the most qualified and equipped to sell/market it. However,
scaling that up will definitely be a problem. That said, whenever we hire
sales people, we'll make sure we hire the ones fit to do "technical sales".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Restoring felon voting rights a 'mess' in battleground Florida - howard941
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-florida-felons-insight/restoring-felon-voting-rights-a-mess-in-battleground-florida-idUSKBN1WM0YV
======
mAEStro-paNDa
This is only a "mess" because of undemocratic push-back against a ballot
measure that was voted on by the people.
It isn't limited to just voting rights either. Look into the push-back in
Arkansas over a ballot measure passed last year to raise the minimum wage.
~~~
munk-a
Yea - I must have missed the "who have cleared any debts and fines
outstanding" clause following the reinfranchisement of felons.
I know there is a large partisan divide, but one of these parties is for
enfranchisement and the other one is trying their hardest to keep all those
felons from voting.
~~~
zeveb
> Yea - I must have missed the "who have cleared any debts and fines
> outstanding" clause following the reinfranchisement of felons.
Apparently they have to complete all terms of their sentences:
> > No. 4 Constitutional Amendment Article VI, Section 4. Voting Restoration
> Amendment This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with
> felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including
> parole or probation.
------
rtkwe
This is one of the big reasons I think Warren's first priority plan of voting
reforms might be more important than any other. Gerrymandering, poll closures,
voter ID laws all of it is one big effort to hold on to power despite losing
the support of the voters which is the whole basis of the legitimacy of
government power in the US.
~~~
mAEStro-paNDa
How exactly do you think she will execute that plan?
Voter ID laws have been enshrined in some states through ballot measures voted
on by the public, for example.
Not only that, turnout and money in politics are arguably more of a priority
to tackle, in that they would make addressing voter ID laws or gerrymandering
much easier.
Overall I'm not sure her "plans" to solve these issues goes far enough, or
gives enough detail of how they would be executed.
~~~
rtkwe
There's the most power on the level of federal elections where congress has
the power to dictate the "time, place, and manner" at any time (Article 1
Section 4). So for the whole of Congress they have pretty full and broad
powers to make whatever they want happen. To get similar things at the state
levels there's the ever useful strategy of just dangling a large pot of money
for states. And ballot measures aren't completely binding they can be modified
by the legislature of the individual states.
I do think money in politics is a big issue but with Citizens United it's hard
to do anything about that since "spending money is speech" means there's very
very little wiggle room in the 1st amendment for putting a stopper on the
geyser of corporate money. [1]
[0] [https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-plan-to-strengthen-our-
dem...](https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-plan-to-strengthen-our-
democracy-6867ec1bcd3c)
[1] Is a real messy problem. Personally I think corporations getting the full
rights of citizens is a bit bonkers and I wish there was an easy way to draw a
line between people collectively pooling their money for speech and a
corporation doing the same thing. Maybe some test around profit making or
something to tamp down on the feedback loop of companies spending money to
make way more money in return from legislative changes.
~~~
Steltek
In the vein of "dangling money", elections are expensive to run and states
would not want to double spend to follow their rules + Fed rules.
~~~
rtkwe
Yeah I imagine that's part of the calculus too that it would be easier to use
the same rolls, machines and rules but getting them to reform the district
drawing process would be somewhere our hypothetical Warren admin would
probably have to incentivize with money.
------
ch4s3
Wow, this is pretty crazy.
> Under a Florida law that went into effect July 1, he must pay those
> penalties before casting a ballot or risk being prosecuted for voter
> fraud... Florida has no comprehensive system for tracking such fines
It's not uncommon for states like Florida to make voting difficult, but this
is Kafkaesque and ridiculous.
~~~
throwaway5752
If you don't live in a Republican majority state, then you might not
appreciate the lengths they are will to go through at a bureaucratic level to
prevent non Republicans from voting and to otherwise minimize their political
power. You almost want to admire how clever and dedicated they are to it:
gerrymandering, removing classes of people from ballot roles, inconvenience
tactics of minimizing voting machines/locations for non-R precincts,
minimizing early voting and vote by mail (or defunding them), physical
intimidation at precincts, and maneuvers like the subject of this article.
You can look at the members of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commissi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commission_on_Election_Integrity)
(Hans van Spakovsky, Chris Kobach) and see the impressive and coordinated job
they are doing at nationalizing the effort.
They have an incredible pipeline to create "movement" attorneys and advancing
them into the judicial system with the ADF, programs like the Blackstone legal
fellowship, and the relatively recently accredited Liberty U law school as a
feeder. They don't draw a ton of attention to themselves, but let's just
say... hopefully you are Christian, white, heterosexual, and don't want/need
contraception. They essentially have already won, the precedent is just
working its way through the judiciary.
~~~
souprock
This isn't something to blame on one party.
Maryland is not a Republican majority state.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland%27s_3rd_congressional...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland%27s_3rd_congressional_district)
Illinois is also not a Republican majority state.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_4th_congressional...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_4th_congressional_district)
~~~
throwaway5752
I'm sorry, it is in fact a single party issue at a national, coordinated level
right now. Not every R state is gerrymandered, and Maryland is a great example
of how not every D state is not gerrymandered. But you have Eric Holder and
the NDRC on one hand. You have Hofeller, Kobach, and von Spakovsky on the
other. It should be bipartisan and simply a matter of civic duty, and I look
forward to when it's that way again.
And IL 4 was drawn by Republicans after
[https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-
courts/FSupp/7...](https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-
courts/FSupp/777/634/2259862/)
From
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_4th_congressional...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_4th_congressional_district#History)
_" In June 1991, Congressman Dennis Hastert, a suburban Republican, filed a
federal lawsuit claiming that the existing congressional map was
unconstitutional;[11] the present congressional district boundaries emerged as
a result of that lawsuit. A three-judge panel of the federal district court
adopted the map proposed by Hastert and other Republican members of the
Illinois Congressional delegation"_
------
duxup
>But another argument is shaping up to be central to the plaintiffs’ case:
Florida has no consolidated system for determining what felons owe or
certifying that they have paid up. It’s a situation that ex-offenders say
makes it virtually impossible for them to prove they are eligible to vote.
This seems absurd.
You can't vote because you owe us money... but we're not going to tell you how
much you owe, if anything at all.
~~~
michaelmrose
Why is paying up linked to voting? This just creates an incentive to
strenuously police and fine minorities so they can't put you out of office.
~~~
japhyr
Yes, exactly, it's a modern day poll tax and many people in power want such a
thing.
~~~
quickthrower2
This might be UK bias, but I take "poll tax" to mean a fixed tax on each
resident for community services (as opposed to say a tax based on the value of
the residence), but has nothing to do with voting. See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax)
~~~
xigency
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_State...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_States#Voter_registration)
------
JoshuaMulliken
I sure hope their lawsuit is successful this seems like an overreach of the
power of the legislature. If the people vote to make a constitutional
ammendment then it should be law!
> The Tampa pastor is now a plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging the payments
> law, which was crafted by Florida’s Republican-controlled legislature and
> signed by Governor Ron DeSantis, also a Republican. The law came just months
> after Floridians approved a ballot initiative restoring voting rights to
> more than 1 million felons who have completed their sentences;
~~~
bilbo0s
Not surprising that people try to hold on to power by hook or by crook. (And
there are a whole lot of crooks among Florida's power elite.)
------
geggam
I haven't ever understood how being a felon removes a right ?
Rights aren't something the govt gives so how can the govt remove them ?
~~~
jcranmer
You may be deprived, under the 5th Amendment, of life, liberty, and property
via due process of law. Since felons have been convicted of crimes under due
process, their right to vote (liberty) can be deprived.
~~~
yellowapple
I strongly doubt the Founding Fathers intended that to mean "we should
continue to deprive felons their rights to life, liberty, and property even
after they have served their sentence".
~~~
tptacek
In this case it matters less what the founders intended and more what the
framers of the 14th Amendment thought almost 100 years later. You can read in
_Richardson v Ramirez_ a bit of a history of felon disenfranchisement; a
reasonable summary might be: "there was a lot of haggling over the specific
language of the clauses of 14A, but disenfranchisement for crimes was a
consistent point of agreement".
Of course, that doesn't mean that it's right to disenfranchise felons (it
almost certainly isn't), nor does it mean any state is obligated to
disenfranchise (most states don't). It does however mean that it's not
straightforward to appeal to the Constitution in arguing to get rid of it.
------
s1artibartfast
Database and records issues aside, it seems that the constitutional amendment
was pretty clear:
"No. 4 Constitutional Amendment Article VI, Section 4. Voting Restoration
Amendment This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony
convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole
or probation. The amendment would not apply to those convicted of murder or
sexual offenses, who would continue to be permanently barred from voting
unless the Governor and Cabinet vote to restore their voting rights on a case
by case basis."
If the fees are part of parole or probation, then the felons should be not be
able to vote. Does florida not have a database of who is or isn't on
probation?
If the fees are not part of parole or probation, the new law should be clearly
unconstitutional.
~~~
magashna
> Does florida not have a database of who is or isn't on probation?
Apparently not when it comes to fees owed as part of that.
> Tyson searched court records, first on his own, then with the help of a
> nonprofit legal advocacy group. They say that because Florida has no
> comprehensive system for tracking such fines, the documents don’t make clear
> what he owes. The records, viewed by Reuters, show potential sums ranging
> from $846 to a couple thousand dollars related to crimes he committed in the
> late 1970s and 1990s. Tyson says he won’t risk voting until Florida
> authorities can tell him for sure.
~~~
s1artibartfast
>Apparently not when it comes to fees owed as part of that.
I think there is another more likely answer: Probation is tracked, fees have
not traditionally been considered a requirement for probation completion, and
the legislature is trying to shift the lines.
~~~
delinka
> ... fees have not traditionally been considered a requirement for probation
> completion ...
Is that the case? It seems like I've heard of cases where probation comes with
requirements ("wear this tracking bracelet") that are provided by a private
entity who bills the convict, and if the bill isn't paid, probation gets
revoked.
~~~
s1artibartfast
My understanding of the article is it applies to those who completed
probation, not those who's probation is ongoing or revoked.
------
erobbins
"developing a procedure to send counties regularly updated lists of felons on
their rolls who have unpaid fines and fees, but it has no timetable as to when
it will be ready"
Oh, I know when it'll be ready. About 2 weeks before the election, just in
time to purge voters without giving them enough time to do anything about it.
------
SamReidHughes
I wonder if labyrinthian fines could get classified as excessive fines,
somehow. But if the fine complexity is O(n) where n is the number of
convictions you have, I don't see what the big deal is.
~~~
crooked-v
The problem isn't the number of fines, but that different clerks and offices
will all claim that the total and remaining fines are all different amounts.
------
yardie
For a bit of context the current governor, Desantis, squeaked into the win
with less than 40,000 votes. He is trying everything in his power to not be a
one-term governor. So far he has:
* Liberalized his platform to appear more moderate. Terms are 5 years and a new generation of voters.
* Supress black votes through kafkaesque voter registration.
* Suppress black votes by denying ex-convicts (who make up a large block of felons) the ability.
------
chooseaname
It shouldn't be a mess. We voted for it and it passed. When we voted, there
was no stipulation that repayment was necessary. That came after and that bill
should have been struck down because that was not the will of the people.
------
jimbob45
On the bright side, there is no governorship or senate seat up for grabs, so
the stakes are considerably lower.
~~~
r00fus
Yup, just the 29 Congressional seats and President. Oh, and all the state
legislative seats. Not to mention mayoral seats and other state measures. Or
any 2020 ballot measure. Not much at all, really.
------
gowld
Just another poll tax.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_States
~~~
tehjoker
If too many poors voted it would undermine our class structure through
democracy. Can't have that happen. /s
Building on what you said, everyone should have the right to vote, totally
unobstructed, even if they are in jail. Otherwise, you incentivize putting
people the powers that be don't like in jail.
~~~
Frondo
At least one state (Vermont) does allow people behind bars.
For the rest of them, prison populations are another form of concentrating and
diluting power: prisoners are counted toward district population, but have no
voting power.
I'm in the camp that thinks everyone should have the right to vote, prisoners
included. Voting is a fundamental component of citizenship, and being
imprisoned shouldn't take that way as a matter a principle, nor should a
citizen be disenfranchised after their release (as is also common, especially
in the states that enacted all these laws in the Jim Crow south era).
Especially if we want former prisoners to play a more positive role in society
after their release, stripping them of a right of citizenship, possibly
indefinitely, seems like a bad way to do it.
~~~
crooked-v
A simple thought experiment that can also help people reevaluate their views
on this kind of thing:
Imagine if [thing you like] was illegal, punishable as a minor felony with a
year in jail and the subsequent loss of voting rights. You know that 60% of
the population supports [thing you like] and would like to have it legalized,
but because a substantial chunk of this population has been or will be
punished this way over their lifetimes, support of [thing you like] only gets
a minority of the vote. The 40% of the population that opposes [thing you
like] uses this to claim that most people oppose [thing you like] and want it
to remain illegal.
~~~
kls
That is the whole issue with the criminalization of drug consumption it
creates all kind of societal issues and it screws up other areas that at one
time where and still should be reasonable. It get compounded with laws like
the 3 strike rule where you get hit with 3 small non-violent offenses and then
they can really jack up the charges and get you on a felony.
I am all for true felons loosing their right to vote. I don't want people that
have run ponzi schemes, violent high volume drug dealers or pedophiles to have
the right to participate in the society I live in. I think it is criminal that
some meth head that gets slapped with a felony for having a little too much on
them goes to prison, gets out, turns around their life and now cannot
participate fully in society due to poor laws.
~~~
crooked-v
I would personally prefer voting remain unconditionally open to everyone,
because treating it that way avoids future societal repression over [insert
moral panic over reasonably harmless subject here] and because the total
number of the kind of people you cite are a rounding error compared to overall
voter turnout totals.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wifi router could be killing plants - vpj
http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/wireless-router-wi-fi-plants/
======
davidgerard
Terrible, terrible article about a ridiculously unrobust experiment. Clickbait
even by the standards of Daily Dot.
------
strict9
>An experiment by a handful of high school students in Denmark
Enough said.
This was in Natural News, which means it's definitely bogus. Come on HN,
you're better than this pseudoscience clickbait.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The tiniest C sort function? (2008) - rwmj
https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/tinysort.html
======
mjcohen
Of course this is a n^2 sort. Combinatorial Algorithms by Nijenhuis and Wilf,
1975, has a 23 lines Fortran implementation of Heapsort, a n log n sort. It is
available on the web and easily found, so I am going to list it here. I am not
going to attempt to convert it to C.
Note: Enjoy discriminating between the one and the lower-case l.
subroutine hpsort(n,b)
integer b(500),bstar
n1=n
l=1+n/2
11 l=l-1
bstar=b(l)
goto 30
25 bstar=b(n1)
b(n1)=b(1)
29 n1=n1-1
30 l1=l
31 m=2*l1
if(m-n1)32,33,37
32 if(b(m+1).ge.b(m)) m=m+1
33 if(bstar.ge.b(m))goto 37
b(l1)=b(m)
l1=m
goto 31
37 b(l1)=bstar
if(l.gt.1)goto 11
if(n1.ge.2)goto 25
return
end
~~~
colejohnson66
Why are only some of the lines numbered, and not all?
~~~
Someone
Technically they aren’t numbered, they have a label. Labels serve as jump
targets, have to appear in columns 1-5, must be numeric and all different, and
_should_ appear in order, but I don’t think they _must_.
(If they _must_ ,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Simple_FORTRAN_II_prog...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Simple_FORTRAN_II_program)
is in error. It has label 601 follow label 799)
Of note is the statement
if(m-n1)32,33,37
That jumps to label 32 if (m-n1) is less than zero, to label 33 if it is zero,
and to label 37 if it is larger than zero.
------
mk_chan
Ah! The return of the infamous "goes to" operator (-->)
~~~
colejohnson66
For those unaware:
[https://stackoverflow.com/q/1642028/1350209](https://stackoverflow.com/q/1642028/1350209)
~~~
gnulinux
My favorite interpretation of it:
> Or for something completely different... x slides to 0.
while (x --\
\
\
\
> 0)
printf("%d ", x);
------
dang
Two small threads from 2010:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1048091](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1048091)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1888207](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1888207)
~~~
wizzwizz4
Those are both from before the final, 56-byte version was added, though I
expect they probably prompted / were prompted by the addition of steps 12–19.
------
EliAndrewC
Just wanted to say how cool this was. It's been awhile since I've done any
C/C++ programming but the pointer syntax and work really takes me back!
------
joelthelion
I wonder if you could an optimizer to find even shorter solutions. At 60
bytes, the search space is huge, but with some clever tricks, who knows...
------
ramshorns
Cool. I like the step-by-step process that's not usually shown alongside code
golf and obfuscated C programs.
------
akkartik
I had no idea Doug McIlroy had a website!
------
Y_Y
Surely we can do some sort of automated search at this point to give the
shortest such program.
~~~
rwmj
That would (kind of) be the Kolmogorov complexity[1] (only kind of - the
Kolmogorov complexity is actually the shortest program that produces a single
output, rather than the shortest program that implements an algorithm). In any
case the search space is still vast: making some assumptions about the number
of bits in a character of C source code, you'd be searching something like
2^(6*60) bits, a number with about 108 decimal digits. We're in "longer than
the lifetime of the universe" territory here. It might be better to search C
ASTs instead, although the numbers are still going to be huge.
The general field of endeavour for searching binary programs is called
superoptimization[2] and people really do it for very small program fragments.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoptimization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoptimization)
------
lmilcin
Sleep sort would have most compact implementation while still O(n) complexity.
~~~
tom_mellior
I thought about this more than I probably should have, and I'm fairly sure you
can't pull off a C sleep sort that sorts in place and is nearly as compact as
the programs in the article.
~~~
lmilcin
You get that sleep sort is a joke sort algorithm?
~~~
tom_mellior
So is the exponential one in the featured article. But both do sort. If you
could get a sleep sort shorter than that, that would be a nice achievement.
Though I guess your original post was just a bad joke, oh well.
------
SV_BubbleTime
I’d much prefer to see people focus on tiny after compiler than tiny in source
code.
Making it hard for humans to read by removing white space is fun and all, but
entirely pointless to the machine.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Problem with Delhi's Rich Kids - gdilla
http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/08/18/the-problem-with-delhis-rich-kids/
======
nadeemk
I grew up in Delhi in a middle class family but I went to a school full of
kids from Upper middle class to filthy rich families. The kids who came from
old money families were actually fairly down-to-earth and some of them have
worked hard to build their own businesses and startup (of course, having a
cushion to fall back makes it easy to take risks but still, it still admirable
to have the desire to do something on your own.) But then there were kids from
the 'new money' families born out of the new economic boom. These were the
ones who drove daddy's expensive cars, flirted with prostitution, drove
through traffic stop lights (like it was an inconvenience for them) at full
speed.
The thing is that this breed exists in every city in the world - what
exacerbates the situation in Delhi is that they don't have any regard for law
and order. Couple that with the relatively weak and easily bribed police force
- you have these kids running over pedestrians and getting away with it,
shooting waitresses in the head when they deny them drinks after closing time
(as an extreme example)
I don't care about their depression problems, a good ass whooping can fix
that, I care about the unsafe environment they create in the city.
~~~
vdaniuk
> I don't care about their depression problems, a good ass whooping can fix
> that
While I agree that the behaviour you wrote about is reprehensible, please do
not trivialize depression. Perhaps if their mental health issues were easier
to treat, their impact on the society would be more positive, dont you think
so?
~~~
rossjudson
I think his point is that these people aren't depressed; they're enabled
sociopaths.
~~~
xradionut
They are still children, that never had to grow up.
------
mixmastamyk
Not surprised. Humans have evolved during times of scarcity and are most
productive and happy in that situation. When one has zero needs, wants, goals,
life loses its purpose.
It takes focus and delayed gratification to create such purpose, however.
These values are not immediately apparent to young people. The article is
correct that they must be taught by parents or perhaps even society. That is,
if we want well-off young people to make themselves useful earlier.
~~~
Florin_Andrei
It's as if we require an optimal amount of adversity (which is not zero), on
every level, in order to be at our best. Too much and we snap like twigs. Too
little, and we get these depressed rich kids - the yearning to achieve, to
overcome, is frustrated for not finding anything to get traction against, and
the motivational mechanisms withdraw their participation.
If true, this has enormous implications for education in general. I'm thinking
of all the trophies my kids got in school just for showing up.
------
xfax
Not sure how this is uniquely applicable to Delhi. Sounds like this would be
an issue pretty much anywhere in the world.
~~~
rayiner
The rich are more disconnected from everyone else in India than pretty much
anywhere else in the world, especially a place like the U.S. that worships the
middle class. Many rich people in India don't even think of poor people as
human, and that's shockingly culturally accepted.
------
lotsofcows
First world problems...
One of the biggest culture shocks I experienced in Delhi was going to the
cinema (Die Hard 3, I think). Almost every member of the audience talked on
the 'phone the whole way through. The conversations always started, "I'm in
the cinema..." and then "deteriorated" into social gossip.
~~~
xradionut
I nearly got into a fight with an Indian, that did not understand, despite
multiple official and individual warnings, that talking on a phone in the
theater in the US,(except in the hood), is not acceptable behavior... But a
pitcher of beer in your lap may be an acceptable reward!
------
startupstella
My college (im sure like many others) had a bunch of rich international
students from India. I found them to be hard working, ambitious, and generally
down to earth. Perhaps it was because they were well traveled and had a will
to surpass their family's wealth with their own stamp on the world. Many had
also done a lot more community service than American peers in much more
squalid conditions...they also seemed to be more attune to their (screwed up)
political system.
In short, just like the other comments, I don't think this rich kid ennui is
just in India...or Delhi
~~~
xradionut
International students or business folks usually are fascinated to talk with.
But I think the article isn't about these people, but the children that have
been brought up in a "bubble" where they had no real responsibilities.
------
codemac
> “Modern society is rational and rigid, whereas postmodern society is
> irrational and flexible by definition. Delhi transformed into a postmodern
> society about two decades ago. Naturally the behavior of kids born in the
> postmodern era reflects the postmodern culture,” he said.
This quote confused me. I don't want to get into the freshman in a university
discussion of the merits of different cultural values..
but when did Dehli become "post-modern"? Is this a phrase people use often?
What types of changes happened 20 years ago? It's like this quote is hinting
at a much larger social discussion, and then immediately they didn't discuss
it.
This article left me completely wanting, and read like some unfinished first
draft. Yes rich kids can much more easily get spoiled, and the term "spoiled"
does have some literal meaning. It was almost as if the point of the article
was to let me know rich people exist in India? Duh?
------
kamakazizuru
same thing in Bombay, Bangalore, Calcutta. Essentially first world problems.
Though I have to say I always felt that Delhi had a higher proportion of new
rich than cities with older wealth like Bombay - and it was something very
obvious when you were in the city.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Increase Your User Activity with Points, Badges and Status - ryanelkins
http://sixrevisions.com/content-strategy/increase-your-user-activity-with-points-badges-and-status/
======
russell
Hey it works. I had a gig at a subscription Q&A site. Some members put an
insane amount of work into answering questions and writing articles to get
points, badges, titles, tee shirts, and free access. User recognition paid off
big in the contributions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is computer science a science? - iamelgringo
http://scienceblogs.com/seejanecompute/2008/03/is_computer_science_really_a_s.php
======
graywh
In the first session of the famous SICP lectures, Hal Abelson likens computer
science to magic.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLUPjefuWA>
------
jmzachary
No. It's procedural epistemology.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Blosc – A high performance compressor optimized for binary data - tonteldoos
https://blosc.org/pages/blosc-in-depth/
======
buybackoff
It's basically byte or bit shuffling filter (very fast SIMD optimized) in
front of several modern compressors (lz4, zstd, their own) with self
describing header. So if you have an array of 100 8-byte values, the result of
shuffling is 100 1st bytes, followed by 100 of 2nd bytes and so on.
It shines when values are of fixed size with lots of similar bits, e.g.
positive integers of the same magnitude. It's not so good for doubles, where
bits change a lot. Also, if stroring diffs it helps to take a diff from
initial value in a chunk, not previous value, so that deltas change sign less
often (and most bits flipped).
From own usage case, for the same data, C# decimal (16 bytes struct) is
compressed much better than doubles (final absolute blob size), while decimal
is taking 2x more memory uncompressed.
If data items have little similar bits/bytes then it's underlying compressor
that matters.
------
Xcelerate
Back when I did HPC work, I used Blosc to compress information about atoms for
molecular dynamics simulations before transferring this data between the
Infiniband interconnects. Despite the high speed of the interconnects, it was
actually faster to compress, transmit, and decompress using Blosc than to
transmit only the raw data.
~~~
gtt
btw, I'm currently tasked with Kolmogorov complexity estimation, so could
someone recommend me best (from ratio point of view) compressors?
~~~
Faint
[http://mattmahoney.net/dc/text.html](http://mattmahoney.net/dc/text.html), is
pretty much the scoreboard of
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutter_Prize](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutter_Prize)
------
lrm242
Blosc is an outstanding project. I have used it with great success in finance
and general data science in production with very large total datasets (one
custom binary format and one leveraging protobufs).
It really shines first and foremost as a meta compressor, giving the developer
a clean block based API. Once integrated (which really is quite easy) you can
experiment easy with different compressors and preconditioners to see what
works best with your dataset. These things can be changed at runtime and give
you great flexibility.
Francesc has been advancing blosc consistently with a steady vision for years
and years. It is one of the most underrated tools around IMO.
------
devit
Apparently they have several benchmarks where they claim that decompression is
faster than memcpy (!).
However, this is only the case because on several Intel x86_64 benchmarks they
report memcpy performance between 5-10 GB/s, while even a basic DDR3 dual
channel arch has 20 GB/s memory bandwidth, while a modern quad channel DDR4
can have 76.8 GB/s bandwidth, and of course there is no reason for memcpy to
be substantially slower than memory bandwidth assuming it's properly
implemented (AVX can separately read two and write one 256-bit per cycle = 128
GB/s memcpy at 4GHz).
Am I missing something or is this another case of "implausible claims = they
screwed the benchmark = they are incompetent/malicious"?
~~~
stagger87
The absolute numbers don't seem far fetched. An AVX optimized memcpy on my
high end machine (DDR4) has a throughput of 30GB/s.
As long as they are using the same memcpy routine in both the decompression
case and the 'only memcpy' case, that seems reasonable. Obviously, the quicker
memcpy becomes, the faster the decompression has to become to maintain the
same performance ratios, but things like faster clock speeds or multi-
threading can make that issue moot.
------
xiaodai
It's very good! I have used Blosc in developing JDF.jl a serialization format
for dataframes.
[https://github.com/xiaodaigh/JDF.jl](https://github.com/xiaodaigh/JDF.jl)
~~~
doublesCs
Could you tell us more? Is this meant to be an alternative to parquet?
In fact, now that I think about it, parquet supports compression. Shouldn't
this be just an option when saving to parquet format?
~~~
pletnes
Parquet’s snappy and brotli compressors are quite ok. Not sure if blosc is
even faster though.
------
gigatexal
Would be cool to see this in ZFS to make compressing binaries even more
efficient
------
nisa
The used shuffle techniques before compresson might be useful for squashfs? We
play around with a mesh network (freifunk.net) and there are ton's of cheap
4mb flash devices that need every kb of storage :)
------
axegon_
Blosc is an excellent choice if speed is what you are after. Give or take 5
years ago I had to use a compression to transport a lot of data over zmq and
blosc ran in circles over all other compressions.
~~~
w0utert
Yes it's apparently so fast that in some scenarios it's even usable for
compressing RAM. A framework I'm using does that to be able to process much
bigger data sets than what would fit in RAM otherwise.
~~~
ddorian43
Can you be more specific around the framework and data type and access
patterns ?
~~~
w0utert
It's a framework called OpenVDB [1], which we use to represent and manipulate
volumetric data (level sets). It stores the data as a sparse hierarchical grid
with (from a practical perspective) infinite dimensions, and allows very
efficient iteration and local manipulations of the grid.
I'm not an expert on how it is implemted exactly, but I believe the way it
uses Blosc is by saving leaves of the VDB grids in blosc-compressed chunks,
which are loaded into memory directly and only decompressed on-demand when the
data is accessed, then re-compressed when the leaves are processed.
[1] [https://www.openvdb.org](https://www.openvdb.org)
------
requin246
Can someone with Blosc 2 experience tell me what are the proper conditions to
use superchunks or frames? When does it become advantageous to use one over
the other?
This is a really interesting library.
------
js8
This would be an excellent candidate to put on an FPGA directly next to the
CPU. (Assuming such thing would exist and be open enough to be usable by
general public.)
------
waatels
This look amazing. The application looks so diverse ! Can someone know if it
can be applied on msgpack ?
~~~
profquail
Not generally, no. blosc is geared towards “rectangular” data — that is, a
C-style array of int, double, or some struct type.
------
any1
Can blosc be used to compress/decompress regular zlib streams?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Are PhD Students Irrational? - prostoalex
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/phd-students-irrational/
======
dexwiz
We are currently in the middle of a college bubble. Colleges are slow to
increase professors, and with good reason. Tuition costs have skyrocketed over
the past 3 decades, and attendance rates have steadily climbed. This is mostly
easily attributed to the baby boomer mentality of, "I want my children to have
a better life, and that means a college education." While not necessarily
wrong, it won't continue forever.
The bubble is already started to deflate. There are repeated calls for more
focus on trade-based education. Or self education with online resources, as
dubious as that may be. But this is not the financial industry, and it will
not pop overnight.
Giving a professor tenure is not like hiring an employee. Colleges are locked
into supporting that professor, and their research, for 30+ years.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A B2B software marketplace instead of sales email drip campaigns back and forth - joshschoen
https://joshuaschoenaker.com/a-b2b-software-marketplace-instead-of-sales-email-drip-campaigns-back-and-forth/
======
anoncoward111
Is the article supposed to end on a cliffhanger like this?
The better way of course is to do this via inbound marketing and discovery.
For example, you make a youtube search for "how do I make my laptop faster
under Linux", and then you watch some free videos and maybe even contact some
companies to buy their stuff.
The hypothesis behind cold calling and cold emailing is that 90% of customers
don't do this for some reason, and are just waiting for some random person to
contact them about something new for them to try :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apple: Puerto Ricans Can't Have Free iPhone 4 Cases - jawngee
http://consumerist.com/2010/07/apple-puerto-ricans-arent-americans-and-cant-have-free-iphone-4-cases.html
======
pierrefar
As much as I'd love to bash Apple on this one, we don't have a critical piece
of info: the guy's type of address. The generic rejection from Apple mentions
multiple reasons, including PO boxes. If he's got a PO box then the title and
fury against Apple are wrong. If he's got a physical address, we should
sharpen the pitchforks. Again.
As evidence, see how many times the phrase "therefore your order has been
cancelled" is found in the email from Apple. And the bit explaining PO boxes
asks him to edit his address within a week or risk cancellation. It's a
rubbish email fro Apple no doubt, but we need more before we call this one.
------
ugh
Sigh. I’m as happy as everyone about blogs and all that stuff but, you know,
sometimes some real journalism would be appropriate. It’s not that hard, dial
(408) 974-2042 (Apple’s PR hotline, not at all hard to find on their PR page
which has a short and memorable URL [+]) and ask if they have a comment.
[+] <http://www.apple.com/pr/>
~~~
tshtf
I suspect a blog post from the Consumerist will attract the attention of
Apple's PR team much faster than even two dozen phone calls to their PR call
center to complain.
~~~
ugh
You don’t call them to complain, you call them to get information. If they are
unable to provide you with that information they suck and you can write in
your article that Apple declined to comment. It’s as easy as that.
As is this article is pretty much worthless. No information, only an anecdote.
------
sachinag
I'm more upset that the Consumerist doesn't know that Puerto Rico has no
Representatives in the House. (Or Senators, or anything really. Of course,
they probably could if they wanted to but they keep voting to retain their
commonwealth status.)
~~~
telemachos
It's a little weirder than literally no representation. Puerto Rico, like the
District of Columbia, has a non-voting representative to Congress. (This is
the source of the popular "Taxation without representation" bumper stickers in
DC.)
Citations:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress>
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricos_At-
large_congressi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricos_At-
large_congressional_district)
------
Samuel_Michon
Funniest headline I've read all week. I doubt there's meat to it, though. Has
the customer in question tried to, you know, _call_ Apple (1-800-MY-APPLE)?
It's entirely possible that there's something wrong with Apple's online
ordering system, but surely a live person will be able to process the order.
Apple's Shipping & Delivery page clearly states that they will ship to Puerto
Rico and other US territories:
<http://store.apple.com/us/help/shipping_delivery>
There are also some service centers and AVRs in Puerto Rico that one may want
to try: <http://www.apple.com/support/iphone/service/us/>
<http://latam.apple.com/buy/lae/find.php?r_pais=Puerto+Rico>
And lastly, the 'free iPhone 4 case' deal is valid wherever the iPhone 4 is
sold, not just in the US, but also Canada and Europe etc. Even if Apple has
some bizarro atlas that has Puerto Rico pegged as a separate country, surely
they will still send cases there, because AT&T in PR offers the iPhone 4.
------
SoftwareMaven
Nothing like link bait. I share rubymaverick's sentiments that this might be
making a mountain out of a mole hill and WAY overstating the case.
My guess: some poorly implemented back-end system automatically canceled the
orders or, even more likely, some dip in shipping said "Umm, port o reeko?
Wazz that?" and canceled the order.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity,
unless it can capture a few more eyeballs.
------
rubymaverick
This title is completely accurate. I happen to have some inside info on this,
actually. Steve Jobs went on one of his epic rants after a person from Puerto
Rico tried to order a free case. Everyone at Apple agrees with his basic
sentiment: Puerto Ricans can suck it. It's like a new company mantra. Good
thing the kind folks at consumerist are on the job!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The journalistic casualties of the Guardian’s erroneous Whisper story - lleims
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/casualties-of-the-guardians-whisper-story.html
======
celticninja
The Guardian are not entirely at fault here. They reported what execs said,
whether those execs were embellishing the abilities of the app or trying to
seem cool is irrelevant. What they said about tracking users was never denied
by whisper, they simply added some clarification after the fact but the execs
who made the claims were not saying it was done to prevent illegal activity.
I feel for the guys who were sacked but they were media relations people. I
work in an office and if anyone external comes in we are advised to be aware
of what we are discussing and the confidential nature of the work we do. The
media team shoukd have been the ones giving quotes and everyone else shoukd
have been warned that there were journalists there and everything is fair game
to them in those situations.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Breakout in 30 lines of JavaScript - aves
http://jsfiddle.net/martin_/Fq8F4/
======
moron4hire
I feel like these posts lately haven't really been in the spirit of the
"Excel-like spreadsheet in < 30 lines" post. These games lately have just been
ultra-min'd versions of standard programs. The Excel-like program used full
variable names and a clever trick to take advantage of the dynamic nature of
JavaScript and some features of modern browsers.
~~~
DanBC
True, but it's useful to have tiny toy but real programs for newbies to
experiment with.
All these Thing in 30 lines posts would make an excellent collection for
people to type in, debug, modify, debug, expand, debug, etc.
Someone could make an RPi friendly page and collate these. Maybe include some
gentle competitive edge - code golfing or neatest added feature or somesuch.
~~~
moron4hire
I agree with your basic sentiment, but tiny toy programs for newbies to
experiment with should DEFINITELY have readable variable names.
I've been programming for 15 years now and that Excel-like thinger taught _me_
a thing or two, and it didn't take tearing it apart to figure out how it
worked.
This game, and the Snake one from yesterday, didn't even go so far as to
generate the DOM objects in a loop. That was another big part of how the Excel
thinger worked, it wouldn't have been nearly as succinct without it.
Now, I can see using the HTML if there were significant text data you wanted
to include, e.g. text-adventure room descriptions, but this just seems like
they're focusing on the "30 lines" part of the challenge and not the "super-
dynamic" part.
------
mrspeaker
30 not counting the (block * lines) of HTML ;) If you're comparin' code size -
my favourite was from the first JS1K comp - a nice looking platformer in 1K!:
[http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/js1k/](http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/js1k/)
~~~
laumars
> _30 not counting the (block x lines) of HTML_
\+ CSS as well
It's still impressive to see. Though I did cheat; I set my lives to 99999 then
let the game complete itself like a screen saver
~~~
Zoomla
or change --lives to ++lives
~~~
MildlySerious
Or just drop that line.
------
jmharvey
It would be nice if the norm for these "X in N lines of Y" posts didn't count
comments toward the line count. (I also wish people would use more descriptive
variable names, but I suppose that would make the code longer.) Compact code
is a neat trick, but compact, easily readable code is something we can learn
from.
~~~
scarecrowbob
Indeed... I mean, we could just "compile" it if we really wanted to optimize
for line numbers. It's neat to see what can be done in tiny amounts of code,
though.
------
dkordik
TIL: DOM elements with IDs are automatically available as properties of
window. (ball, paddle, etc.)
~~~
dkordik
A couple of findings:
\- This stackoverflow answer has a good back story on this: (TLDR, it's not
standard... yet)
[http://stackoverflow.com/a/3434388/1339100](http://stackoverflow.com/a/3434388/1339100)
but it is in this HTML 5.1 draft:
[http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/browsers.html#n...](http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/browsers.html#named-
access-on-the-window-object)
\- It's slower than document.getElementById, somehow:
[http://jsperf.com/implicit-dom-element-variables](http://jsperf.com/implicit-
dom-element-variables)
------
rcthompson
I've always been fascinated by the collision detection behavior of various
Breakout-like games. They always seem to have some idiosyncrasies, like the
ball bouncing the wrong way when it hits a corner, or clipping through blocks
when it's moving very fast and/or at the correct angle. I often wonder what a
fully correct collision algorithm would look like.
~~~
dfbrown
There are many such algorithms, and it is an active area of research
especially in the area of soft body physics (cloth, human tissue, etc) where
precise collision handling is very important.
Most rigid body simulations use discrete collision detection with fixed time
steps, so it only checks for collisions at specific points in time. This is
fast, but can cause issues where fast moving objects passing through thin
objects (such as a bullet through a pane of glass). The alternative is called
Continuous Collision Detection in which you calculate exactly when two objects
will collide (or have collided) and can then simulate up to that point (or
roll back to that point) and deal with the collision. One naive technique to
do this is after integrating your simulation forwards, you use the volume each
object swept out in that time step as its collision geometry instead of just
the shape of the object at its new position. This solution has issues; it
doesn't tell you when two objects collided and it can give false positives,
but it works ok for rigid body simulations.
Some recent papers on the subject with more exact (and complicated)
techniques:
[http://www.cs.columbia.edu/cg/ACM/](http://www.cs.columbia.edu/cg/ACM/)
[http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~rbridson/docs/brochu-
siggraph2012-ccd....](http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~rbridson/docs/brochu-
siggraph2012-ccd.pdf)
~~~
rcthompson
It would seem that Breakout-type games present an especially simple case for
collision detection. The ball always continues in a straight line, and all the
blocks are stationary. I would think that in these conditions, the game could
really compute exactly when and where the next collision would happen. The
paddle it'd slightly harder, but its motion is still constrained to an axis,
so you could compute the ball's collision time with that axis and then decide
what to do based on where the paddle is at that time.
Edit: To put it more simply, as soon as the ball leaves the paddle, isn't it
immediately possible to exactly compute its complete path up to the next
contact with the paddle "axis"? Do any Breakout games do this?
------
aves
Original: [http://habrahabr.ru/post/202530/](http://habrahabr.ru/post/202530/)
------
kd5bjo
Why don't any of these breakout clones bother to get the gameplay right?
Breakout doesn't even pretend to use real-world physics: The ball bounces
vertically off of the bricks and ceiling and horizontally off of the walls.
After hitting one brick, it ignores and passes through all others until it
hits either the ceiling or the paddle; together, these make the ball much less
chaotic, which enables faster speeds and longer runs.
~~~
city41
There are other nuances too. Such as the number of angles available after
hitting the paddle, and speed of the ball based on what color brick is hit.
This classic video explains it all pretty well:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRAPnuwnpRs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRAPnuwnpRs)
------
sarreph
HaxX mode: [http://jsfiddle.net/Fq8F4/265/](http://jsfiddle.net/Fq8F4/265/)
~~~
sarreph
*HN edition [http://jsfiddle.net/Fq8F4/275/](http://jsfiddle.net/Fq8F4/275/)
------
CmonDev
[well-known-trivial-app] in [substantially-small-number] lines of [any-high-
level-script-language-with-graphics-libs]
------
fekberg
Neat! I'm finishing up a course for Pluralsight on "Game programming with
Python and PyGame" that will be released soon and the goal of the course is to
create a basic 2D game and I choose to do Breakout as it's fun creating when
learning a new programming language!
------
neomech
That's Breakout not Arkanoid.
~~~
greyfade
Indeed. Arkanoid had better graphics and sound.
------
mwein
This is neat and all, but I personally don't think it's that impressive since
it also has 120 lines of CSS and 57 lines of html.
------
wehadfun
So which is more impressive Breakout or Excel?
~~~
mrcactu5
I like the Excel example b/c of its simplicity
[http://jsfiddle.net/ondras/hYfN3/](http://jsfiddle.net/ondras/hYfN3/)
~~~
dmak
I also like it more because it's more readable and is not compacting all the
blocks into one line.
------
marcelocamanho
Very cool!
But the title doesn't mention that there are also 57 lines of HTML and 121
lines of CSS (with some line breaks).
Still amazing though. =)
------
talles
Not working really well here (Firefox 25). The balls sometimes touches the
floor and the game keep going.
Pretty cool btw.
~~~
bendaid
That decrements your lives. You have three of them so you won't die until it
touches the ground the third time.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Automated tests for your infrastructure code - mooreds
https://terratest.gruntwork.io/
======
moon2
Great tip. I've been using Molecule [1] to write my Ansible roles. It's good
to be able to write your tests before heading to your roles. It also makes it
easier to reuse roles.
[1] [https://github.com/ansible-
community/molecule](https://github.com/ansible-community/molecule)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google's Matt Cutts Wants To Give Ranking Boost To SSL Sites - mmahemoff
http://www.seroundtable.com/google-ssl-ranking-18256.html
======
Millennium
This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because it is blatant social engineering:
there are very, very few search terms for which a site's SSL capabilities have
any relevance, and so it is outright dishonest for SSL to affect their
ranking.
On the other hand, it is not hard to argue that SSL desperately needs to be
more widely adopted, and current attempts at changing Web developer/host
behavior have not been effective in driving that adoption. Perhaps search
engine ranking -the lifeblood of many Web-based businesses- will force them
when gentler methods will not, by providing what amounts to a threat to their
business models.
But is the situation really dire enough to be worth corrupting the entire
concept of Web searches?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Should I Be Ashamed to Love JavaScript? - gitgud
I feel like JavaScript is the laughing stock of the programming community sometimes... It's inefficient, messy, not typechecked, full of beginners...<p>But it runs extremely easily on pretty much everything! and can be distributed and run instantly through any browser.<p>Maybe I feel like it's too easy compared to other languages and is downplayed as a <i>newb</i> language...<p>Maybe it just doesn't seem as cool as other languages like <i>rust</i> and <i>go</i>...
======
tomcam
Of course not, and it's sure as hell not the laughingstock of hundreds of
thousands of developers who make a living knowing it.
Javascript is a big, sprawling, and (from day 1) very useful language. Like
English, it has many many flaws and has many antecedents. Like English, it's
evolved to be highly functional. The last two versions are first rate
languages. The runtime environments (browsers, compilers, etc.) are among the
most sophisticated, comprehensive pieces of software passionately maintained
by some of the smartest people in the world working in friendly competition,
and we don't have to pay a red cent for their work product.
I started programming in 1983, so about 7 years after the microcomputer took
off. The very first version of Javascript was a shaggy dog but it was far more
capable than interpeters selling for hundreds of dollars at that time.
The pedants who bitch about Javascript should get over themselves. I wish my
life had so few problems that I could spend my precious time on this planet
denigrating something given to me and every browser user for free.
------
jacob019
I was always a JS hater. I mostly work with python these days, but JS is
required for UI development. Since I am targeting internal apps where we
control the browser, I get to use the latest ES6 features without polyfills. I
have to say that JS has come a long way, and some of the latest features are
pretty awesome. Requests is so much more pleasant to work with that the old
XMLHttpRequest, imports are great, the fat arrow has made my life so much
easier, and the modern reactive frameworks are amazing. Sometimes I find
myself wishing we had certain things in python, the regex syntax is more
elegant and doesn't feel like a hack. And compared to Python, concurrency
takes less effort. It's certainly easier to write spaghetti code in JS, but
you can write bad code in any language. It's truly amazing what a flexible
computing environment the modern browser has become.
------
triplee
No. You shouldn't be ashamed of ANY language or technology, as long as you
feel it's appropriate for doing whatever problem is put in front of you.
Also remember that at various times, PHP, Ruby, Python, Perl, COBOL,
ColdFusion, literally anything made by Microsoft, Java, and countless other
languages that solved plenty of interesting problems and both led to people
getting paid but also improving and creating other things have been laughed
at.
As a converse, plenty of people have made absolute garbage in any number of
open source frameworks, "sexy" languages du jour, etc. either because they
were working alone and didn't think they needed help or what they were working
on wasn't remotely suited to the tool.
Ignore the haters. It's usually gatekeeping coming from lack of confidence and
fear of real competition due to years of poor attitudes in our industry on
what makes a "real programmer".
------
atestu
I love it too. To me, Javascript is like my phone camera. Sure, DSLRs take
better pictures but the best camera is the one that's always with me, and
that's Javascript.
~~~
duhi88
I like that analogy.
------
alan_wade
I got into programming because I want to make cool stuff, not because I want
to contemplate the transcendent beauty of pure functions and elegant code.
JavaScript is what enables me to make stuff I couldn't make with the same
amount of time/effort using any other tool I came across.
Do I wish I could do the same stuff using Racket? Sure, I guess. But in the
world I live in, JS is the best tool I could find for doing what I want.
Also maybe it's just me, but I've been programming for 5 years, and I haven't
actually ever felt that frustrated or inadequate when programming JS, I like
it no less than python.
I got used to looking down on JavaScript as a "bad" language from reading
snarky comments made by people who, I suspect, also jumped on the hate train
because they've heard others talking shit about it. I'm not a computer
scientist, maybe there are some legitemate reasons to dislike JS, but I don't
think they're serious enough to warrant all the hate it gets in programming
community, I'm guessing it's mostly a social phenomena.
At least personally I haven't run into things that make me dislike it, I have
a lot of fun using it.
------
drinchev
Although most of the replies will be "No, because <REASON...>", what is more
important is to find the reason that suits yourself. You can of course find :
\- Libraries that makes it efficient ;
\- Plenty of styleguides / do / don't rules which makes it tidy ;
\- TypeScript, where JS becomes statically typed ;
\- Find beginners in any other languages, although "full of beginners" is
actually positive, rather than negative.
\- You can feel like a real pro if you write C / C++, but you will rarely be
hired to make a REST API with that stack and you will not be hired to create a
web app with it. So your statement might be more accurate if you say "Web
development is downplayed as a newb", which is obviously wrong. Sure I would
not recommend to write a database based on NodeJS or a search engine, or a
space shuttle program, or a ... you name it, but you can't write with anything
else ( at least serious ) than JavaScript or something that compiles to JS,
for web development.
\- Cool is also relative. I was writing Perl for 6 years, before I run out of
job prospects and switched to NodeJS.
------
notamy
You should use the tools that work for you, and not be ashamed of that.
Getting caught up in "X is cooler than Y" "X said that Y is better than Z for
everything" etc. is counterproductive. Other people's opinions won't
(necessarily) be right for you.
------
RandomGuyDTB
A programming language is like a type of art. Some people love oil painting,
some people hate it, some people don't know how to get the colors to mix. Some
people hate using a pen for art. I think it's just subjective.
------
jgrahamc
No, you should not. If you have mastered the tools you are using then you
should be proud of your ability and your ability to get things done. Languages
get laughed at over time and JavaScript is no exception. It's also amazingly
popular. Personally, I regularly use Perl for small jobs, that's a language
that gets ridiculed but I'm super fluent in it. I also write things in C, C++,
Go, ...
The only reason to be ashamed would be if you only program in JavaScript and
can't imagine ever using anything else. Learn many languages, master some, use
different languages for different problems.
------
maze-le
No, you shouldn't. And don't listen to people trying to shame you because of
it.
>> It's inefficient
Well, its at least as efficient as python or ruby (I think its even slightly
better). If you work on the backend side, and performance is the main goal,
there are other technologies better suited: Go, C#, haskell
A problem might be the concurrency model, but that is an entirely different
topic.
>> messy
Depends on your ability to organize code. Its not that much different than
other technologies, really.
>> not typechecked
True, but there are other dynamically typed languages... People implement
thing in them too. And there is always typescript, if you are interested in
working typesafe.
>> full of beginners...
Everyone was a 'beginner' at some time in their life...
>> Maybe I feel like it's too easy compared to other languages and is
downplayed as a newb language...
There are simple aspects of the language, but take a look at e.g.: Promises[0]
or the Prototype inheritance chain[1] and tell me again that it is simple...
;-)
[0]: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Promise)
[1]: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Inhe...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Inheritance_and_the_prototype_chain)
------
jowiar
When someone does the denegrating you mention (and folks do), they go on my
“I’ll never work with them” list. I’ve had folks do it in an interview and
it’s an immediate no-hire.
JS is a tool, just like on the any other. It has some big pluses, and some
annoying “WTFs”, but today, it’s a more-than-solid default answer to “What
should I write my webapp in”.
------
xtracto
15 years ago that was PHP...
A language is not something you should be ashamed of. You should learn more
than one though, so that you understand the advantages and disadvantages of
different paradigms and implementations.
Should you be ashamed of loving your hammer? NO, but you should be ashamed of
using your hammer to unscrew screws.
------
sargun
I used to make fun of JavaScript. I hated JavaScript, it was confusing (wtf is
prototype?), easy to screw up in, and didn’t have a real concurrency model.
But then I realized this didn’t matter. The JavaScript community is was
evolving at a ridiculous rate. These weaknesses slowly left their blood, and
honestly, now I’m left envious. I enjoy writing Flow, poking around with new
ideas like async / await, and envy the sheer performance that JavaScript has
attained.
I still find JavaScript and often the people associated with JavaScript to be
hard to like at times, but it’s a language with great possibilities.
------
Nikkau
> I feel like JavaScript is the laughing stock of the programming community
> sometimes...
Don't worry, it's PHP.
------
sbilstein
I was mostly in the Scala/Java world for a long time and laughed at the JS
community’s obsession with reinventing things. Somehow I ended up using Node
on every side project over the years because it was pretty easy to work with.
Fast-forward to now...I’ve decided to build my startup on typescript and node.
I find the easy sharing of libraries and types across frontend and backend
very liberating.
TS/ES6 are mature and run everywhere. Easy for beginners but functional enough
for me. It’s taken me a while but I love JavaScript.
------
hawski
Programming languages will not love you back. Maybe it's nothing to be ashamed
about, although it seems a bit silly for me. I may take the word "love" too
serious, but that's also how I feel you are taking your relationship with a
glorified screwdriver.
In case of JavaScript I have one reservation, that by enabling adtech it's
helping to screw other people on their own computers. Of course it could be
some other language, it's not like JavaScript is inherently for this purpose
alone.
------
sick_of_web_dev
It's not as bad as PHP but yeah JavaScript or rather the community around it
is largely made up of sub-par web developers (you, oh dear reader are _of
course_ the exception). Obviously you will not find as many clueless people in
say embedded software development or even electrical engineering as these
require a certein set of requisite skills and theory whereas every idiot can
call themselves a web developer.
But yeah as long as you enjoy what you're doing, you shouldn't worry about it
:)
~~~
drivingmenuts
As a PHP programmer, I should probably resent some part of your answer, so
consider it pro-forma resented.
OTOH, I get paid to work with PHP, so really, I don't worry about what other
people think of it.
------
jillav
No you shouldn't be ashamed.
Most of the people I met who denigrated javascript with a blazing hate didn't
fully understand its underlying concepts. They were trying to use it like C or
something else. Which can lead to frustration.
You should take pride in being good with your tool, understanding how it's
designed and how to use it to build awesome stuff.
And yes, it's always a good idea to expand one's skill set. Handling
javascript like a boss is one of those skills that a today's programmer can be
proud of.
------
sonofgod
I think Javascript's ubiquity -- it has an implementation in every browser --
is the cause of much of its hatred. No one hates on SNOBOL because it's been
superseded and no-one uses it; but if you're wanting to interface with the
web, there's no other first-class langugage, everything else transpiles to
JavaScript.
I think an opinionated JavaScript interpreter which considered the worst
elements of JavaScript to literally be bugs (e.g. single equals) would help
immensely...
------
andymoe
No, it’s the future and is currently going through a renaissance. Full stack
js is especially compelling and productive.
------
kgraves
No. if you use JavaScript and you like it that's fine, you shouldn't be
ashamed of it.
------
randiantech
Javascript has evolved enough during these years to a point that is no longer
a "joke". Theres yet some kind of inertia from past, when JS was basically a
form validation language, but current state of language is a complete
different story.
~~~
gitgud
Interesting, I guess it's still haunted by its past...
------
rjkennedy98
The functional programming community loves it, especially with the
introduction of ES6.
~~~
erikpukinskis
ES6 is the worst thing that ever happened to JavaScript.
JavaScript's one best attribute was that it would run on any device. No longer
true.
It's second best attribute was a simple threading model. Promises and async
wrecked that.
The third best attribute was it was easy to learn. But in ES6 there are twice
as many control structures to learn, with no added power. =>, class, const,
etc. They just add more things to think about, without solving any problems.
Well, except that people didn't like learning closures and prototypes. And now
they don't have to. So you can program in JavaScript now without learning it
if you want.
And you don't have to write the word "function" and "this" a lot. So you save
2% on code size.
ES5 Forever.
~~~
jacob019
Love it or hate it ES6 is here to stay. I for one love it.
~~~
flavio81
Still no integers,
no strict typing,
no sane module system.
~~~
jacob019
ES6 imports works well. I've been working on a project that uses them
extensively and it's really improved the organization and structure.
------
cyberprunes
My advice as an internet nobody:
Don't worry about that dumb crap. JS is a good language. It's come a long way
since its dark early days.
People who shit on JS and on those that like it are usually not worth your
time. I find those people are more interested in displaying their intellect or
superiority by being condescending. It's not helpful.
Read and watch Douglas Crockford if you haven't. He has extracted the best
aspects of Javascript to focus on. If you take his advice then I believe you
will find JS to be a very good companion.
Just don't let JS be your only language. No language should be your only
language.
------
biaib
Back in about 2005, I hated javascript. In hindsight, what I hated was cross
browser development and developpers messing webpages with javascript (alerts,
popups, javascript "links" ...). I used noScript intensively (always unless
forced otherwise), and it made the web better. How not to think javascript is
a shame, then ?. Javascript wasn't understood well at the time, and I guess
still isn't by most people. Just learn to understand it it's awesome. So, no.
------
blattimwind
No need to kinkshame people, even if their kink is JavaScript.
------
mschaef
JS is not without its problems, but it has attracted both a huge amount of
mindshare and corporate investment over the last twenty years. Those both go a
long way towards fixing many of the initial problems of the language.
While it isn't the language I'd have necessarily chosen to be as widespread as
it it, the industry could have wound up making a far worse choice, and I'm
grateful it didn't.
------
topkai22
Nope, it’s improved a lot and approaches greatness for the reasons you
mention.
It still drives ME crazy because it lets many of my colleagues produce
unreadable hard to understand spaghetti code in a way I don’t see with more
structured (and tool friendly) languages like C#, Java, or purer functional
languages, but well written JavaScript can be a delight.
------
EyLuismi
You do you. Don't give a f*ck about what others think. Every programming
language has its pros and cons and all of them are beautiful in its own way.
Even brainfuck is beautiful, maybe is not productive, but its unique.
Don't waste your time worrying about that even if there is not market, if you
really like a language you will find a job if thats what you want.
------
ninjakeyboard
Javascript has gotten a lot better. IMO there are nicer languages to swoon
over but it's fine to love JS too :)
------
julianozen
Nope! All language/technologies are tools. Developers have (lots) of opinions
but at the end of the day all of these things exist to solve user and business
problems. JavaScript does both effectively
It is however useful to have a critical eye so that one can assess what is the
right tool for a particular job.
------
janpot
I love JavaScript. A good craftsman never blames his tools.
------
gnoirzox
> It's inefficient, messy, not typechecked, full of beginners...
Well PHP is worth on those stuff..
As long as you can make stuff happen with it, I guess that's fine..
------
z_
Yes.
------
crawdog
As long as it isn't PHP you should be ok...
------
kgwxd
Sounds like what you love is the widespread support and ease of deployment,
which aren't properties of the language itself.
------
v00d0
Javascript, my friend, is like english: Easy to learn, Hard to master. Don't
be ashamed only if you are good at it.
~~~
blattimwind
> Don't be ashamed only if you are good at it.
Not sure if intentional pun
------
fucking_tragedy
ES6+ eased a lot of pain around writing Javascript. It's actually a very nice
language from a user standpoint.
------
davman
At least it isn't VB.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bogus Research: The best programmers are 10x better than average programmers. - seventeenorbust
http://sco.lt/81iLMf
======
seventeenorbust
Money quote: "Nearly all the statistical variation in performance is accounted
for by literally one single programmer in a 46 year old study (n=12). This
study was actually conducted to see if giving people access to computers that
ran their programs immediately instead of waiting days for their code to be
run on shared systems improved performance (News flash: It did)."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Interview with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle - arjn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XWjgt9PzYEM#!
======
arjn
This is an unexpected gem. I wouldn't have thought such footage existed, with
sound.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Comp. Sci PHD for JD? - hackernewsacctr
Considering applying to Computer Science PhD programs and would like input. Am currently a practicing public interest attorney. Non-Stem/CS undergrad. Think humanities.<p>I would like to transition into AI work and think PhD provides a good route to do so. I have considered Masters programs, but don't want to take on debt (I get sense that Masters programs are generally unfunded) and I would like the opportunity to do a real niche deep dive/research.<p>Long term goal would be interesting industry gig w/ decent pay, but could see myself in academia as well.<p>Please share any advice, thoughts, ideas, suggestions, anecdotes, or warnings.<p>Thanks!
======
xiaolingxiao
I do not think you can do a computer science Ph.D. without a strong
quantitative undergraduate degree, ie computer science, math, physics. The
Ph.D. application is a very clubby process, and it is more or less who you
know, who you have worked for, where you interned (that is Google or
Facebook). It is not really a five year school so much as a five year
employment with minimal rights to the employee, and a lot of risk to the
employer since your boss (advisor) has to commit to someone for 5 - 6 years
without a prior internship relationship. Framed in this way, you see how
difficult it is for you to get in a program now, it is basically impossible.
Your best bet is to go through a post-bac computer science program (UPenn and
Columbia both offer them), the program themselves are cash grabs for the
university, but while in the program you can work for a professor and develop
a relationship there, and then he/she will give you pointers. If you're in the
program sometimes you can transfer to a related program that offers more
math/theoretical comp-sci curriculum as well. You can become a "machine
learning" scientist after this program, Ph.D. is not required. Honestly, I
would say you're at least three years away from asking if you're qualified for
a Ph.D.
~~~
hackernewsacctr
Thanks
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Harvard Admissions Needs ‘Moneyball for Life’ - 001sky
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/opinion/sunday/harvard-admissions-needs-moneyball-for-life.html
======
igonvalue
It's a funny article, but I was actually disappointed that the sincere
question of how to "moneyball" college admissions was not explored. I don't
think there exists much evidence that college admissions officers at places
like Harvard add much value beyond merely sorting students by grades and test
scores (which themselves are highly predictive of future performance). My
suspicion is that admissions officers have about as much predictive acumen as
active fund managers (i.e., not very much), but I would be interested to see
this tested empirically.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
India against corruption: A million mutinies erupt across India - durga
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Anna-Hazare-arrest-A-million-mutinies-erupt-across-India/articleshow/9628615.cms
======
guelo
Here is an article with a bit more background
[http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-
Central/2011/0816/...](http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-
Central/2011/0816/What-are-India-s-Anna-Hazare-protests-all-about)
~~~
durga
thanks for the background story, Guelo.
People's protests all over the country should send a clear signal to the
government. Corruption/bribery even in obtaining basis services has been a
pest for way too long.. It's time for it to stop now.
Social media has played a nice role by allowing protesters to share news and
coordinate.
------
rajpaul
It seems that corrupt officials and citizens who don't pay taxes go hand in
hand. I wonder which came first.
Regardless, intuitively it seems to me that these problems will be solved when
poverty is reduced and everyone moves up the economic ladder.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Should I pursue this startup that depends on decisions of "big players" - bozho
I have this project of mine (http://welshare.com) that aggregates major social networks and provides a unified interface to them, so that power users can manage their accounts easily.<p>However, I depend on decisions by facebook, twitter and Google, and that can break my idea completely. For example:<p>- twitter recently announced that they don't like other vendors writing clients for twitter (http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2011/03/twitter-tells-third-party-devs-to-stop-making-twitter-client-apps.ars).<p>- facebook had a bug (allegedly fixed now) that penalized stories posted via the API and they didn't appear on other people home streams.<p>- Google+ are reluctant to provide an API (only a tiny portion so far)<p>Twitter decides that I can't have anything, other than "retweet" for retweeting messages (screwing my unification), facebook may retain the penalty for 3rd parties, thus making mine disadvantaged, and Google may never release a complete G+ API.<p>So my questions is: is it worth it to pursue this project?
======
billpatrianakos
Depends how useful it is to you and others. Coincidentally I was just
pondering doing the exact same thing today so I can tell you it would be
useful for others. Mine was to be billed as a tool for web designers and
social media people to give to their clients as an easy way for them to keep
up with their accounts and as a selling point for the people setting it up. I
don't mind if you run with that idea either as I probably won't execute very
soon.
There are a bunch of companies beholden to Facebook and Twitter for similar
reasons as you and the ones who are successful are able to enhance the
experience in some way that the company providing the API isn't willing to get
into. Zynga is good example. The problem is that if you're not big enough then
they don't give a shit. If you have a sizable portion of their users and are
providing something that keeps people using their platform then you're good.
Check out Buffer. Buffer let's you spread out Tweets over time and I'm pretty
sure it posts to Facebook too. Somehow they've managed to avoid the pitfalls.
But you're saying the Twitter API won't let Tweets come from your app? That's
weird because that's exactly what Buffer does and I haven't seen them have any
problem. I haven't looked into it but maybe you can go about asking for an
exception. You really have to make a great case though.
But to finally give a straight answer I'd say that if it's important enough to
you then you should definitely deal with the uncertainty. Find a model that
gives you a kind of partner status rather than a leach status in their eyes.
Brizzly, Buffer, and Zynga somehow navigated the territory so I think you
could too.
~~~
bozho
Thanks for the points. I'll continue improving and trying to popularize the
service.
~~~
billpatrianakos
Maybe it's too late and you're not checking back but I did find out you can
request that your app be white listed by Twitter using their process and
they'll let you go over any http request limits and other API limits. I'll try
to get in touch with you by email to let you know.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: JVM templating engines? Looking for JSP alternatives - paulitex
For the first time, I'm building a JVM-based web app. I'm looking for a good replacement for JSPs. I've used Rails and Django extensively and like both their templating engines quite a bit - probably because of this experience jsp makes me want to gag a bit.<p>I've look briefly at Velocity but the perlish '$' syntax puts me off - though I could probably get over that.<p>Notably it only has to play friendly with java - Groovy, Clojure, Scala, are all viable options. I'm also considering using JRuby and just sticking with the erb I know.<p>Thanks.
======
floodfx
GXP is decent. (<http://code.google.com/p/gxp/>)
You could also try GWT (<http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/>). Obviously more
than just a templating engine but very cool.
------
dsickles
Check out Lift. It's a Scala based web framework.
<http://liftweb.net> [http://steve.vinoski.net/pdf/IC-
A_Chat_Application_in_Lift.p...](http://steve.vinoski.net/pdf/IC-
A_Chat_Application_in_Lift.pdf)
------
va_coder
I'm a huge fan of Grails/Groovy. In general I prefer Ruby, but if you're in an
environment with existing Java code and Java infrastructure, Groovy can be a
great fit.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Taste of Rust - cp9
http://www.evanmiller.org/a-taste-of-rust.html
======
ufo
The blog author mentions at one point that Algebraic Data Types cannot
determine pattern exaustiveness for things like
match 100 {
y if y > 0 => “positive”,
y if y == 0 => “zero”,
y if y < 0 => “negative”,
};
and wonders if there is some kind of "algebraic data values" to notice that
the previous case is exaustive.
In Haskell they solve this particular problem with an "Ordering" ADT:
data Ordering = LT | EQ | GT
case (compare 0 100) of
LT -> "Positive"
EQ -> "Equal"
GT -> "Negative"
Using a richer datatype instead of boolean predicates solves most problems.
For some more advanced things you need extensions to the type systems. For
example, to be able to say "this function, when applied to non-empty lists
returns non-empty lists", you need Generalized Algebraic Data Types (gadts).
~~~
pcwalton
Same in Rust: [http://doc.rust-
lang.org/std/cmp/enum.Ordering.html](http://doc.rust-
lang.org/std/cmp/enum.Ordering.html)
~~~
Veedrac
match 100.cmp(&0) {
Ordering::Greater => "positive",
Ordering::Equal => "zero",
Ordering::Less => "negative",
}
------
pcwalton
> I’m not sure if the ownership rule is actually helpful in single-threaded
> contexts, but it at least makes sense in light of Rust’s green-threaded
> heritage.
It's necessary for prevention of use-after-free. Here's a simple example
(which can be translated into the equivalent C++):
let mut vector = vec![
"1".to_owned(),
"2".to_owned(),
"3".to_owned(),
];
for element in vector.iter() {
vector.clear();
println!("{}", element);
}
------
kibwen
The author's observed speed discrepancy between iterators and while loops
makes me think that they forgot to compile with optimizations, as the
difference between those programs is almost negligible on my end.
~~~
Veedrac
To add to this, I found that when using i64 both generated exactly the same
code.
------
Veedrac
> but five function calls (from_ptr, from_utf8, to_bytes, unwrap, to_string)
> just to convert a C string to a Rust string seems like an excessive amount
> of ceremony
Well, only the first four are really needed. The last one turns it into a
local, growable copy. The rest should probably get a convenience wrapper,
though.
> the libxls API has an array-of-structs in a few places [...]; because Rust
> doesn’t believe in pointer arithmetic, I found myself manually writing the
> pointer arithmetic logic
Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but can't you just use slice.from_raw_parts?
[https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/slice/fn.from_raw_parts.html](https://doc.rust-
lang.org/std/slice/fn.from_raw_parts.html)
> writing things in a pseudo-functional, lots-of-chained-method-calls style,
> for which Rust is not all that well-designed
If this is about speed, then see the other comments. But if this is for
another reason, what reason is it? Personally this style of programming suits
Rust beautifully.
------
noelwelsh
From reading the article I came to the conclusion the author is rather
inexperienced with modern functional languages. Their claims about tension in
the design of Rust between functional and imperative features for me mostly
come down to them not understanding natural consequences of the modern
statically typed paradigm, or Rust's memory model.
For instance, take the discussion about if expressions. They claim an if
expression with a single arm returning unit is unintuitive. Firstly, we should
always recognise that claims about "intuitive" behaviour solely depend on
one's background. This behaviour is completely intuitive to me, coming from a
Racket background (which behaves the same way). It's also a natural
consequence of having to give a type to an if expression with one arm. You
have two choices: the else case either returns the bottom type (which
operationally means it raises some kind of error), or it returns no
interesting value -- which is exactly what unit is. Since a single arm if can
only be used for effect, unit is the best choice here.
Rust is certainly a very different language to OO-ish imperative languages
that most people are familiar with. I think the author made the common mistake
of expecting Rust to behave like one of these languages, and then blaming the
discrepancies between their mental model and actual behaviour on the language.
~~~
GolDDranks
On the other hand, an alternative design would be that the single-arm if
wrapped the return type R to "Some(R)", and None for the "phantom else" arm. I
haven't considered the ramifications of this, but I'd expect it to work well
if the Option<R> type is defined flexibly and compose-ably enough.
------
steveklabnik
I am utterly thankful for new experience reports on Rust, especially for ones
this well-written. Generally speaking, inaccuracies in such things are our
fault, not the writers', due to a lack of documentation and or good examples.
With that being said, a few notes:
> It runs about five times slower than the equivalent program
I'd be interested in hearing more about how these were benchmarked. On my
machine, they both run in roughly the same time, with a degree of variance
that makes them roughly equivalent. Some runs, the iterator version is faster.
It's common to forget to turn on optimizations, which _seriously_ impact
Rust's runtimes, LLVM can do wonders here. Generally speaking, if iterators
are slower than a loop, that's a bug.
> Rust does not have tail-call optimization, or any facilities for marking
> functions as pure, so the compiler can’t do the sort of functional
> optimization that Haskell programmers have come to expect out of Scotland.
LLVM will sometimes turn on TCO, but messing with stack frames in a systems
language is generally a no-no. We've reserved the 'become' keyword for the
purpose of explicitly opting into TCO in the future, but we haven't been able
to implement it because historically, LLVM had issues on some platforms. In
the time since, it's gotten better, and the feature really just needs design
to work.
Purity isn't as big of a deal in Rust as it is in other languages. We used to
have it, but it wasn't very useful.
> But assignment in Rust is not a totally trivial topic.
Move semantics can be strange from a not-systems background, but they're
surprisingly important. We used to differ here, we required two operators for
move vs copy, but that wasn't very good, and we used to infer Copy, but that
ended up with surprising errors at a distance. Opting into copy semantics ends
up the best option.
> how that could ever be more useful than returning the newly-assigned rvalue.
Returning the rvalue ends up in a universe of tricky errors; not returning the
rvalue here ends up being nicer. Furthermore, given something like "let (x, y)
= (1, 2)", what is that new rvalue? it's not as clear.
> I’ve always thought it should be up to the caller to say which functions
> they’d like inlined,
This is, in fact, the default. You can use the attributes to inform the
optimizer of your wishes, if you want more control.
> It’s a perfectly valid code,
In this case it is, but generally speaking, aliasing &muts leads to problems
like iterator invalidation, even in a single-threaded context.
> but the online documentation only lists the specific types at their five-
> layers-deep locations.
We have a bug open for this. Turns out, relevant search results is a Hard
Problem, in a sense, but also the kind of papercut you can clean up after the
language has stable semantics. Lots of work to do in this area, of course.
> Rust won’t read C header files, so you have to manually declare each
> function you want
The bindgen tool can help here.
> My initial belief was that a function that does something unsafe must,
> itself, be unsafe
This is true for unsafe functions, but not unsafe blocks. If unsafe were truly
infectious in this way, all Rust code would be unsafe, and so it wouldn't be a
useful feature. Unsafe blocks are intended to be safe to use, you're just
verifying the invariants manually, rather than letting the compiler do it.
> but until a few days ago, Cargo didn’t understand linker flags,
This is not actually true, see [http://doc.crates.io/build-
script.html](http://doc.crates.io/build-script.html) for more.
> the designers got rid of it (@T) in the interest of simplifying the language
This is sort of true, and sort of not. @T and ~T were removed to simplify the
language, we didn't want language-support for these two types. @T's
replacement type, Gc<T>, was deemed not actually useful in practice, and so
was removed, like all non-useful features should be.
In the future, we may still end up with a garbage collected type, but Gc<T>
was not it.
> Rust’s memory is essentially reference-counted at compile-time, rather than
> run-time, with a constraint that the refcount cannot exceed 1.
This is not strictly true, though it's a pretty decent starting point. You may
have either 1 -> N references, OR 1 mutable reference at a given time,
strictly speaking, at the language level. Library types which use `unsafe`
internally can provide more complex structures that give you more complex
options.
That's at least my initial thoughts. Once again, these kinds of reports are
invaluable to us, as it helps us know how we can help people understand Rust
better.
~~~
masklinn
> This is, in fact, the default. You can use the attributes to inform the
> optimizer of your wishes, if you want more control.
Isn't the default that the optimiser will do whatever the hell it wants, and
the attributes simply skew the optimiser's factors in one direction or
another? I think what the author means here is that the caller function should
be able to define whether the callee should be inlined or not.
> The bindgen tool can help here.
Would be really useful to have an implicit bindgen thing. Maybe a compiler
plugin using e.g. Clang's C parser? That way there's no need to maintain the
binding. I'd say I'd like a header generator more than a reader though.
~~~
steveklabnik
Maybe I misunderstood what the parent wants, but you're right that the
optimizer can do as it pleases, and you can use annotations to help it make
the right decision.
An 'implicit' tool may in fact be cool. It's not perfect, and so needs
tweaking in many cases, so the current state is pretty good, but for easier
cases and/or when you don't care, I can see such a thing being useful.
~~~
masklinn
> Maybe I misunderstood what the parent wants, but you're right that the
> optimizer can do as it pleases, and you can use annotations to help it make
> the right decision.
I understand TFAA's request to be a callsite annotation, which currently does
not exist, e.g.
inline foo()
to force inlining or
noinline bar()
to prevent it, probably with the first one erroring out if the call is not
inlinable.
~~~
Jweb_Guru
I believe #[inline(always)] and #[inline(never)] both work like this.
~~~
kbenson
According to steveklabnik here[1], those are on the definition, not the
callsite, which is the distinction here. Although from other info here, it
sounds like having it on the definition is a prerequisite in some cases if you
wanted to somehow specify it for the callsite, as it needs to be serialized in
the crate metadata to be inline-able, and that's controlled somewhat by
whether it was defined as inline capable.
1:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9548248](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9548248)
------
chaoky
the article brings up a good point with 'systems language'. What is a systems
language anyways? I guess C is, but whats the definition? Is common lisp a
'systems language'? After all, a good number of operating systems have been
written in common lisp, but is it too freewheeling and high level to be
considered a 'systems language'? Is java a systems language?
~~~
Retra
Implicitly, the most important feature of a 'systems language' is
predictability: how easily can you predict how much memory or time a program
will use when running?
~~~
dllthomas
If we take that seriously, I wonder if we should look at something that isn't
turing complete.
~~~
Retra
That's a good thought, but you'd probably need to know the problem domain in
advance to do that. The reason we use Turing complete languages is because you
can't predict what solutions need to be expressed, so you err on the side of
allowing them all.
~~~
dllthomas
Except we don't allow them all; we allow that subset that will run within the
memory we make available to the process, in the time before we get fed up
waiting and kill the process... There is likely valuable design space between
that and current (or at least common) explicitly non-TC languages.
~~~
Retra
You can write a program that doesn't terminate, consumes ever increasing
amounts of memory, and can perform arbitrary arithmetical calculations in just
about any language. Any language that can do that is Turing complete.
About the only non-Turing complete languages in wide use today are basic
dialects of SQL, Regex, and some layout engines. Every non-Turing complete
language we've invented has a very specific domain of application, and none of
them are suitable for writing low-level systems.
~~~
dllthomas
I think you missed my point, which I admit is rather subtle. I mean that there
are already restrictions which we place on programs in practice; if we make
those explicitly part of the language rather than implicitly part of the
environment, the resulting language is not Turing complete but might still be
comparably useful. The trick is in doing this in a way that _practically_
(instead of just theoretically) improves our ability to reason about the
programs, and in building it into a language that's actually usable.
Edited to add: Note that I'm _not_ saying this is a trivial engineering
exercise.
------
saosebastiao
I too have found the assignment semantics to be a little baffling, and the
errors to be ungoogleable (which may have changed in the last 4 months since I
used it last). A pragma determining semantics seems quite brittle as well. I
wish that there were some sort of distinguishing operators for copy vs move,
much like how F# has different operators for initial assignment vs mutation.
~~~
steveklabnik
We used to have two operators, but it wasn't actually helpful.
The only difference between a move and a copy in Rust is that you can use a
copy value afterward.
Why does this matter? Okay, imagine this code:
let v = vec![1, 2, 3];
let v2 = v;
Since Vec does not implement Copy, it's a move. Moves memcpy the value on the
stack, which, in a Vec's case, is a triple: pointer to the data, a length, and
the capacity. You haven't actually copied the data on the heap, just the three
pointers on the stack. If we let you use v after the assignment, there'd be
two pointers to the same data. No bueno.
Compare that with this code:
let i = 5;
let i2 = i;
In this case, 5 is an i32, which implements Copy. The same thing happens: a
memcpy. But now, the entire data was copied. There's nothing on the heap. In
this case, it's totally okay to keep using i.
Does that make sense?
~~~
saosebastiao
It makes sense...but only because you explained that Vec doesn't implement
copy and i32 does. Without scouring the source/docs, or possibly having a
mythical IDE that can discover this for me, I have to rely on error messages.
I just checked, and the error messages are definitely better since January,
but I think it would be helpful to have an extra operator just for a visual
understanding of the code, rather than enhancing its procedural semantics.
~~~
pcwalton
We tried it once, and there was way too much noise. "let move x = move f(move
y)" was all over the place. (Yes, you do need it on pattern bindings too if
you want to be consistent.)
~~~
masklinn
Since copy is the rarer of the two (I'd assume most developers are not going
to opt-in copy unless they need to, even if it's technically feasible _not_
marking a struct as Copy is more future-proof as removing Copy is more likely
to break code than adding it) the operator could be `copy`, with _everything_
(including copy-able objects) moving by default, making the language much more
uniform.
Of course, there would be no point to Copy then, the language could just lost
it and require explicit cloning.
That would certainly be less convenient for basic numeric types.
~~~
dbaupp
I think copy may be rarer in terms of the number of types, but I suspect it's
not rarer in terms of actual use, since shared references (&) and integers are
used a _lot_.
~~~
masklinn
Good point wrt reference, I always have trouble thinking of them as "real"
types to which the rest of the language applies as usual, thanks for the
reminder.
------
imron
> But then, this won’t compile: let x = if something > 0 { 2 };
Which makes perfect sense. After all, what should the value of x be if
something is <= 0?
~~~
erkl
Now, I'm not sure this is useful at all, but I think it would make sense for
the value of an if-expression to be Option<T>.
~~~
Jweb_Guru
That might actually make sense... and I have to say that it would be useful,
too. Quite often I find myself doing if condition { Some(foo) } else { None };
being able to just write if condition { foo } could be neat syntactic sugar
for that (though it might also be confusing, since in Rust generally types
don't form magically like that). The solution I'd come up with was just to
give booleans a .then method (maybe they already have one that i missed).
------
eridius
It's always interesting to see the experiences of new people to Rust. There's
a few curious misconceptions in here that I hadn't seen before:
> _Iterators are a great and reusable way to encapsulate your blah-blah-blah-
> blah-blah, but of course they’re impossible to optimize._
I'm very curious to know where you got this idea from. Iterators actually
optimize very well, in most cases being indistinguishable from a manual
imperative for-loop. If you forget to turn on compiler optimizations then
you'll see a significant performance difference, but that's true for a lot of
different things you might want to do. Compiler optimizations are important
whenever you're measuring performance.
> _pragma_
It's not a pragma. It uses the same # sigil that C compilers use to introduce
pragmas, but in Rust, it actually denotes an attribute which modifies the next
item (or in the enclosing item with the #! syntax). This is used for a number
of things. As you've seen, it can be used to automatically derive
implementations of traits, and it can be used to mark a function as being a
candidate for inlining, among other things.
> _Rust rather inelegantly overloads the assignment operator to mean either
> binding or copying._
This is indeed a very curious misconception. Assignment actually isn't
overloaded like that at all. In your code example, when you say
let y = x;
You're not binding y to the value of x, you're actually _moving_ the value of
x into y. There is no implicit bind-by-reference in Rust. If you want a
reference, you need to use the & sigil.
The confusion here stems from the fact that some values can be _copied_ and
some values cannot. When you move a value in Rust, if the value can be copied
(if it conforms to the Copy trait), then the original value is still usable
after the move. This means you can say
let x = 1;
let y = x;
let z = x;
The line `let y = x` moves the value of x into y, but since the value is
copyable, it's really just moving a copy of the value. In this context,
"copyable" basically means memcpy() can be used to produce a valid copy.
There's a different trait called Clone which has an explicit .clone() method
that is used for values that require additional work beyond memcpy() to copy.
In your code example, your struct is not Copy, so moving its value makes the
original value _inaccessible_. Basically, it's considered garbage memory and
cannot be read from again. This is why your code
let x = MyValue::Digit(10);
let y = x;
let z = x;
throws an error. It isn't because `y` and `z` would be referring to the same
value, it's because after the line `let y = x;` the original value `x` is
garbage.
So really, any time you do assignment like that (or any time you pass a value
as an argument to a function) without taking an explicit reference (using &),
you're doing a move. Values that confirm to Copy will move a copy of the
value, and all other values will leave the original value inaccessible. This
should actually be familiar to people coming from C++, where values that
aren't Copy are basically like std::unique_ptr, except that instead of leaving
the original value with a known-"zero" state, the compiler prevents you from
accessing the original value at all.
~~~
eridius
Further commentary:
> _When Rust was originally announced, the team had ambitions to pursue the
> multi-core MacGuffin with a green-threaded actor model, but they found out
> that it’s very hard to do green threads with native code compilation._
It's easy to do if you're willing to define certain synchronization points
(such as I/O). IIRC, Rust abandoned Green threads because of a few reasons:
1\. It doesn't play well with FFI. This is particularly true with segmented
stacks, but Rust abandoned those before it abandoned green threading. With
regular OS-provided stacks, FFI is a problem because the FFI call can't yield
to the green scheduler. 2\. It has an unavoidable performance problem even for
code that doesn't use it. The existence of green threading means the entire
runtime needs to be abstracted over a threading and I/O interface. This is a
lot of complexity, and requires the use of dynamic dispatch for a lot of
things that would otherwise be static dispatch. Rust originally switched to
native as the default threading model but kept green threading as an option
for a while, but this violates the concept of you-don't-pay-for-what-you-
don't-use, especially since most people weren't even using green threading
anymore. 3\. It also made implementing some things very awkward. For example,
because of the abstract notion of a runtime, you couldn't really implement
selection over multiple file descriptors very well. Things like that must be
handled by the runtime library or not at all, because for native threading
you'd want to use select() (or kqueue or epoll) but for green threading the
green threading library needs to deal with that. In Go, the standard solution
there was to spawn multiple green threads that each block on one fd and
communicate using channels (because the runtime can then collect all the
blocked fds into a single select/kqueue/epoll), but that's unwanted overhead,
and is especially not very good when you're not using the green threading. 4\.
Green threads encourage the use of lots of short-lived threads that have very
shallow stacks. Rust abandoned segmented stacks with the understanding that
the OS-provided virtual memory support was good enough that it didn't matter
if every thread got an 8MB stack as it would allocate pages on-demand. But a
4k page for every green thread can be a lot of overhead if you're using
thousands of green threads. You can of course explicitly request a smaller
stack, but that's tricky to get right (if you request too little you explode).
There was a lot of thought given to trying to statically determine how much
stack space a given function call required (which is not always possible, and
is especially tricky if there's any recursion) to deal with this, but that's a
very hard problem.
Ultimately, it was determined that green threads simply weren't worth all the
costs. The OS is pretty good about dealing with lots of threads, and arguably
it's actually better than the green threading library is about scheduling them
all. Green threading makes some sense if you want to spawn 10,000 simultaneous
threads, but in nearly all real-world workloads it's just not really worth it.
> __Rust has taken up a different challenge: eliminating crashes from
> otherwise traditional, “boring” multi-threaded programs. In the sense that
> Rust has abandoned its original vision in favor of pursuing more modest and
> achievable goals*
I find this an odd thing to say. Statically eliminating crashes (and data
races) without a garbage collector or any performance penalty is actually
_significantly more interesting_ than actors. Rust did not decide to pursue
the more modest "boring" goal, it redoubled its focus on pursuing the very
hard (but achievable) and very important goal of solving the problem of
memory/data safety in multithreaded programs. This aspect of Rust is what most
excited me when I first got involved 2 years ago and what still excites me to
this day and makes me wish I could use Rust in my day job.
> _For the record, the Nim language manages to get this right, and the Rust
> folks might look to it for inspiration._
I've heard of Nim before but haven't actually looked at it. Does it attempt to
solve memory/data race safety at compile-time like Rust does?
> _It is also worth noting that processing non-overlapping slices in parallel
> is destined to come into mortal conflict with The Iterator, which is by its
> nature sequential_
I don't think this is true. You can build an Iterator that yields non-
overlapping mutable slices, and then you can process them in parallel. The
iterator is sequential, yes, but you can call it multiple times and hand the
resulting references to your parallel computations (as opposed to handing the
iterator itself over, which doesn't work because you'd be sharing mutable
state without a lock and Rust does not allow you to write that code).
Although it's worth noting that at the moment you can't do fork-join
concurrency (so you can't share mutable slices with parallel computations like
that unless you cheat with `unsafe`). There's `thread::scoped()` but it's
marked as unstable (so you can't use it from Beta or from tomorrow's Stable
1.0) because it has a serious safety issue, and the proposed replacements are
still being worked on.
~~~
felixgallo
I find a lot of this sounds like justification rather than rationale.
Certainly, OS level threads are objectively terrible, as is the OS level
scheduler. A chance to have a compiled, memory-safe erlang has been wasted.
~~~
Jweb_Guru
OS level threads are absolutely not objectively terrible and what eridius
described _was_ the rationale. This is the post that killed off green threads:
[https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-
dev/2013-November/00...](https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-
dev/2013-November/006550.html)
I find it hard to believe you can read that and believe that Rust made this
decision for anything but sound technical reasons.
~~~
felixgallo
Eppur si muove.
~~~
Jweb_Guru
Which part of the thread I linked did you disagree with? Or are you just being
contrarian for its own sake?
------
Manishearth
This is a great post! :D
Some nits on various errors or misrepresentations:
> pragma
You have some complaints about attributes (what you call pragmas) -- I suspect
that many of them are due to you looking at them as if they were C++
preprocessor directives or pragmas. They aren't, even if the syntax may be
reminiscent :)
In some cases they're like decorators in python (but much more powerful), in
others, Java annotations. They're a different concept.
> Sadly, Rust is not a target for my favorite parser generator, and the lexers
> in Servo don’t look much better than C-style state machines, with lots of
> matching (switching) on character literals.
[https://github.com/servo/html5ever](https://github.com/servo/html5ever) is
the largest parsing library we use in Servo, and there are a bunch of Rust
tricks done there. HTML parsing is _hard_ (the spec is insanely complex), and
this library does it well with much less code.
> it would be nice if the Rust compiler got rid of the split_at_mut secret
> password and could reason sanely about slice literals and array indexes.
`split_at_mut` is just a library function that uses `unsafe` internally, much
like many other core data structures and methods. It has nothing to do with
the compiler.
> It is also worth noting that processing non-overlapping slices in parallel
> is destined to come into mortal conflict with The Iterator, which is by its
> nature sequential.
I believe the thread::scoped API can be used to process nonoverlapping slices
in parallel with a regular iterator. Not sure, but I recall seeing an example
where this was done.
> ...seems like an excessive amount of ceremony, at least for a language that
> keeps using the word “systems” on its website.
I don't see what verbosity has to do with systems programming. Most of those
are zero or low cost (so verbosity doesn't correspond to more steps in the
generated assembly); I believe there's a utf8 check at one point and that's
it. Rust is verbose wherever errors or footguns are possible.
> Rust won’t read C header files, so you have to manually declare each
> function you want to call by wrapping it in an extern block, like this:
[https://github.com/crabtw/rust-bindgen](https://github.com/crabtw/rust-
bindgen)
> but until a few days ago, Cargo didn’t understand linker flags
You can specify -L and -l flags in the .cargo/config file under the rust-flags
key (or output the same in a build script); this has been allowed for a while
now. More complex linker args are now possible with the cargo rustc command.
~~~
general_failure
> [https://github.com/servo/html5ever](https://github.com/servo/html5ever) is
> the largest parsing library we use in Servo, and there are a bunch of Rust
> tricks done there. HTML parsing is hard (the spec is insanely complex), and
> this library does it well with much less code.
This might simply be because of a) Servo has no legacy b) Servo developers are
awesome c) Servo is not complete yet
A large part of the complexity of HTML is simply quirks and compatibility.
Which Servo does not handle yet.
Don't mistake all this as language wins...
~~~
dragonwriter
> A large part of the complexity of HTML is simply quirks and compatibility.
Actually, the HTML spec _already addresses those_ (that's why it is incredibly
complex; unlike HMTL4 and previous, the WHATWG HTML Living Spec -- and
possibly the W3C HTML5 spec, though I can never keep straight what that was in
the WHATWG spec at the time W3C kept and what it didn't -- contains a complete
specification of how compliant user agents should parse anything purporting to
be HTML even if it actually isn't valid HTML (IIRC, a compliant parser _may_
throw an error on invalid HTML, but if it is tolerant of errors, the spec
specifies _how_ it is to be tolerant, specifically to avoid the pre-HTML5
issue of different browsers parsing the same thing different ways. Modern
browser either have converged or are converging -- some might still be lagging
-- on that consistent model.)
------
Dewie3
> The pattern list looks pretty exhaustive to me, but Rust wouldn’t know it.
> I’m that sure someone who is versed in type theory will send me an email
> explain how what I want is impossible unless P=NP, or something like that,
> but all I’m saying is, it’d be a nice feature to have.
I Am Not A Type Theorist, but that looks like it could be very hard for a
compiler to deduce in general. You might have to bust out a proof yourself for
things like this. In which case you might not feel it is worth it for a "nice
to have".
~~~
ufo
It boils down to Rice's Theorem, aka the Halting Problem. Boolean conditionals
can contain arbitrary computations so its undecidable how they will behave at
runtime.
~~~
Dewie3
Right. Hence the proof obligation. :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Last Bus Startup Standing: Chariot - doppp
http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/29/the-last-bus-startup-standing-chariot/
======
mrdrozdov
I used Chariot to get to work in SOMA from the Marina since they launched (now
I live in NYC). The problem they're talking about is no joke. If they didn't
exist, I'd have to walk 10 blocks to get to an earlier stop on my line.
Alternatively, I'd walk 10min up a hill to get on a bus that took 45min to get
to my office, which was less than 3miles away from my apartment. When not
using Chariot, I ended up biking to work (about 30min) out of pure necessity.
There's unnecessary efficiency in the bus routes. Chariot's advantage for the
Marina to SOMA route is that the majority of people riding that bus route are
heading to SOMA, but the bus makes a lot of windy stops in China Town. There
should really be two lines, one that exclusively serves China Town from the
Marina, and one that exclusively serves SOMA. During rush hour, Chariot
adjusts its route based on traffic sometimes saving 10-20min a roundtrip. It
has the flexibility to do so since it bypasses China Town.
~~~
chrisseaton
> I'd walk 10min up a hill to get on a bus that took 45min to get to my office
Why not just walk the 3 miles directly? It would take less than 55 mins for
sure.
~~~
mrdrozdov
Google Maps indicates an hour walk. MapMyWalk show a 186 elevation gain, which
I suppose is not too terrible considering it gradually increases until about
the halfway point, and then gradually decreases. Add a laptop and hefty book
into the mix, and you've got yourself an equation for one sweaty commuter.
I've also used Scoot which gets me to work a little faster than Chariot, but
depends on there being scooters available and is more of a commitment than
Chariot given Scoot's subscription (Scoot is awesome though!). Quite a few of
my coworkers gave up on any sort of shared transit, and drive to work pretty
regularly.
As a comparison, it took me a little over an hour to get to work using the
CalTrain when I lived in Palo Alto and had a 35mile commute.
Another example would be going from Chelsea to the Lower East Side in NYC
(about the same distance as Marina to SOMA). Takes between 25-30min using the
subway on Google Maps.
[https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chelsea,+New+York,+NY/Lower+...](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chelsea,+New+York,+NY/Lower+East+Side,+New+York,+NY/@40.730113,-74.0109428,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c259b082b8c8a7:0x2e54eb9ab02636f0!2m2!1d-74.0013737!2d40.7465004!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c2598015ac8beb:0x59b849fea56b6a70!2m2!1d-73.9842724!2d40.715033!3e3)
The Marina to SOMA takes closer to 40min, but that's assuming you can get on
the bus, which during rush hour is surprisingly difficult (like the article
refers, you might wait 3-5 buses to find one with space).
[https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Marina+District,+San+Francis...](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Marina+District,+San+Francisco,+CA/SoMa,+San+Francisco,+CA/@37.7922442,-122.4392007,14z/data=!3m2!4b1!5s0x89c2fa533fc767a3:0x663c92cc7cdbfe36!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x808580d79ae5a51b:0x3c50fe8f3930832!2m2!1d-122.4368151!2d37.8036667!1m5!1m1!1s0x80858083a662307b:0xfd99010c2dc1f950!2m2!1d-122.4056395!2d37.7785189!3e3)
~~~
aaronbrethorst
Cheaper than paying for the gym.
------
zhte415
OK, out of scope for what happens in San Francisco, but to put them on the map
a little in China and certainly related to bus startups:
pandabus.cn are a small startup that provide real-time bus mapping (i.e.,
where is my next bus going to arrive - public busses) and private busses
(either their own, or owned by someone else) for some cities in China. While
privately shared busses are an old thing, they're consolidating everything
together quite well and making it much more transparent.
I have no affiliation, other than being a user of their app, and while I've
not met them, I understand they're a small team of around 20 people based in a
technology building not far from me. Support your neighbours, etc.
------
ucaetano
"Because Chariot is a consumer web and mobile startup with a direct
relationship to its users through an app"
It is hilarious how these companies are called "web and mobile startups".
People have been buying vans, buses and cars and running their own lines in
emerging markets for over half a century in a profitable and sustainable way,
and taking ride requests over SMS, WhatsApp and what not.
~~~
daveguy
But those companies operating for half a century hadn't done it with a cell
phone app. It's like pets.com and their unique angle of doing business on the
web.
Ok, sarcasm aside, the article does point out a lot of quick-adaptation risk-
reducing operations -- from not "cowboying it" with the law to getting card
info from a critical mass before opening a route. It's an interesting read.
Looks like there's a reason they've gone more amazon than pets.com (although
it probably can't scale like amazon).
~~~
ucaetano
I agree with that point, but that's just a different form of market research,
nothing new to see here. Instead of doing surveys over the phone or on the
street, they're using an app.
------
theinternetman
Let's hope not for long, found that trend of "busses without the poor people"
a disgusting concept for a business.
~~~
sevensor
I totally disagree with you, but I think this is an important point and you
shouldn't be getting downvotes for it. I ride a city bus pretty routinely,
although I don't live in SF. I would still ride the city bus if Chariot came
to town, but I think "busses without the poor people" might be a good way to
get the snobs you're sneering at onto transit and out of their private
vehicles.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cells edited using CRISPR–Cas9 injected into a person for the first time - snake117
http://www.nature.com/news/crispr-gene-editing-tested-in-a-person-for-the-first-time-1.20988
======
leggomylibro
So this title is a bit misleading; something like, "cells edited with CRISPR
injected into a person for the first time" would be better. While CRISPR is
promising for topological treatments, that's not what happened here.
The team took white blood cells out of a patient's body, used CRISPR to knock
out a gene which suppresses immune response, then injected those same cells
back into the patient, hoping that they would attack the cancer without that
inhibiting gene.
If this _were_ a live CRISPR treatment in a human, it would probably make more
sense to just knock out the activated oncogene(s) in the patient's cancer
cells and/or repair the deactivated tumor suppressant gene(s).
~~~
dave_sullivan
> it would probably make more sense to just knock out the activated
> oncogene(s) in the patient's cancer
I've been wondering about that for the past couple of years, since I heard of
CRISPR basically. Who is working on this aspect most seriously right now? Is
there any interesting published progress? I understand it will take a while to
make real progress, but mostly I'm just curious as an outsider to the
industry.
~~~
leggomylibro
I don't think anyone is; it's still too far out there. I'm sure that there's
plenty of research building towards it, but I couldn't name any names. I'm
also an outsider to the industry, but CRISPR is actually a simple protocol
that doesn't require much advanced equipment, and I've been looking into using
it for some home science projects.
The problem as I understand it is that right now, CRISPR requires some manual
steps in the lab to make it work well. You can design the protein and guide
RNA and spacers until you're blue in the face, but if you can't find a
specific enough cutting site on the genome, or one that is close enough to
your target, or something like that, you'll wind up with a lack of specificity
in that cut, which can lead to unwanted mutations. And since the CRISPR system
was originally a sort of bacterial immune system, it's really geared towards
'knocking out' specific genes by (I think, but I'm really shaky on this part)
introducing a bunch of extra mutations when the cut it makes in the DNA gets
repaired. But there are two kinds of repair mechanisms, and apparently there's
a way to encourage the more accurate one, although this is really an area I
need to read more about.
Anyways, the technique has also been used to introduce entirely new genes, but
I think that involves using modified CRISPR proteins called 'nickase's to make
single-stranded cuts in the DNA, rather than double-stranded ones. You
introduce plasmid DNA with your genes to match up with the cleavage sites, and
ideally it gets taken up.
Whatever the approach, you still aren't going to get 100% expression or
transfection, and stable transfection either requires invasive techniques like
biolistics (shooting DNA through membranes on accelerated nanoparticles) or
delivery by viruses, which has a lot of potential, comparatively minimal side
effects, and can even be targeted somewhat to certain types of cells. But I
think the FDA is nervous about, especially in humans.
Again though, I'm a layman here too, so someone please correct me where I'm
wrong :)
~~~
tropo
Project idea: The death cap mushroom is really tasty according to people who
are now dead. Disable the poison.
~~~
dekhn
you would do that chemically, after collecting the mushroom/while cooking it,
because that's easy.
~~~
tropo
not for the death cap
The poison is a bicyclic polypeptide that shuts down ribosomes in your liver.
Destroying or removing the poison is as difficult as destroying or removing
all the protein. (like dealing with mad cow prions) It's just not going to
happen unless you like your mushrooms charred pure black all the way through.
Well, that or dusty white ash.
Just half a mushroom will kill an adult human. This isn't something to take
chances with.
~~~
dekhn
Right, my protocol would have been: fully homogenize the mushroom, treat it
with an antibody known to disable all the toxins, then cook and eat. I wasn't
really proposing anybody does this.
------
banhfun
Here's a Kurzgesagt video about CRISPR for anyone that's curious:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY)
------
mfoy_
I was reading Oryx and Crake and I was thinking "There's no way this could
happen... right?" then Trump said he basically wants to get rid of the FDA and
EPA and now there's talk of a biomedical duel in human gene-editing?
Oh boy.
I can't wait to get a rakunk, myself.
~~~
jakewins
With CRISPR, it's even better right; live gene editing. You can _be_ a rakunk,
rather than just _own_ one!
------
nonbel
>"The researchers removed immune cells from the recipient’s blood and then
disabled a gene in them using CRISPR–Cas9, which combines a DNA-cutting enzyme
with a molecular guide that can be programmed to tell the enzyme precisely
where to cut. The disabled gene codes for the protein PD-1, which normally
puts the brakes on a cell’s immune response: cancers take advantage of that
function to proliferate.
Lu’s team then cultured the edited cells, increasing their number, and
injected them back into the patient, who has metastatic non-small-cell lung
cancer. The hope is that, without PD-1, the edited cells will attack and
defeat the cancer."
Or maybe it was this:
>"The researchers removed immune cells from the recipient’s blood and then
_selectively killed most cells containing a certain sequence_ using
CRISPR–Cas9, which combines a DNA-cutting enzyme with a molecular guide that
can be programmed to tell the enzyme precisely where to cut. The _targeted_
gene codes for the protein PD-1, which normally puts the brakes on a cell’s
immune response: cancers take advantage of that function to proliferate.
Lu’s team then cultured the _surviving_ cells, increasing their number, and
injected them back into the patient, who has metastatic non-small-cell lung
cancer. The hope is that, without PD-1, the _selected-for cell population_
will attack and defeat the cancer."
Since there is no paper (only press release) we can't say much more about
which explanation is most plausible in this case.
~~~
ejstronge
Luckily the article linked to the clinical trials.gov record for this trial
[1] which suggests that the first approach (editing vs selection) is being
used.
1\.
[https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02793856?term=crispr&...](https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02793856?term=crispr&rank=4)
~~~
nonbel
That seems to be the favorite interpretation. We need to see what data they
present that favors it (ie % survival of the treated cells, number of initial
cells, % mutants at that location detected in control cells). Also, this is
kind of weird, because they say it is non-randomized:
Study Design:
Allocation: Non-Randomized
Endpoint Classification: Safety Study
Intervention Model: Parallel Assignment
Masking: Open Label
Primary Purpose: Treatment
But later it says:
Progression free survival - PFS [ Time Frame: From date of randomization until
the date of first documented progression or date of death from any cause, whichever
came first, assessed up to average 10 months ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
Overall Survival - OS [ Time Frame: The time from randomization to death from any
cause, assessed up to 2 years ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
So is the treatment randomized or not? The info on that site may not be
reliable... maybe it makes sense somehow though.
~~~
ejstronge
I would be surprised if this safety trial were randomized with respect to the
CRISPR manipulation. I agree with your assessment of needing more data to
believe that the gene editing manipulation was successful.
I suspect the randomization relates to the allocation to the experimental arms
as described on the reporting page:
This is a dose-escalation study of ex-vivo knocked-out,
expanded, and selected PD-1 knockout-T cells from
autologous origin. Patients are assigned to 1 of 3
treatment groups to determine the maximal tolerant dose
~~~
nonbel
Nice catch, why do you think a safety trial should not use randomized
allocation of the treatment (but it does make sense for dose) though?
------
qoobaa
This makes me feel that i.e. looking for bone marrow donors may become
obsolete in some cases, _if_ we know the gene sequence responsible for the
disease. Instead of looking for donors, it may actually be possible to repair
bone marrow cells and inject them back, fixing the problem. Am I missing
something here?
~~~
xorxornop
Nope, not missing anything. It should also be possible to use it it to
reprogram mature cells (such as skin cells) into homeopoetic stem cells _in-
mass_ , and simply introduce them into the appropriate site (eg bone marrow,
for your example)
~~~
Symmetry
Wait, I thought that CRISPR was a matter of gene editing but that stem versus
other types of cells was a matter of gene activation? Wouldn't that require
different techniques?
------
lwhalen
Good! I can't wait for the day I can get a shot to knock out my debilitating
'seasonal' allergies permanently, at the gene level, instead of having to rely
on potions and powders of steroids, anti-inflammatories, and other fun
chemicals.
------
yread
> The hope is that, without PD-1, the edited cells will attack and defeat the
> cancer.
It seems that we already have good drugs which inhibit interaction between
PD-1 and PD-L1 is there really enough benefit from this?
~~~
Gatsky
Those drugs cost $100K+ per year, and have toxicity.
~~~
ejstronge
I can't imagine that personalized gene editing therapy will ever be cheaper
than the current checkpoint blockade agents.
It will be interesting to see if there are differences in side effect profiles
in the PD-1 knockout T-cells vs our current biologicals, however.
~~~
Gatsky
I took the original comment to be asking why bother taking out PD-1 from the
T-cells. The answer is that it obviates the need for checkpoint inhibitors,
which you would otherwise need to administer together with the CAR T-cells for
best efficacy. Maybe they meant something different.
Checkpoint blockade alone is a great development, but having treated patients
with these drugs, I can tell you it is far from a cure for 80% of people.
------
dghughes
I think the best (or worst?) part is that CRISPR can be used with a 'gene
drive' it keeps the changes active on on-going it's not a one shot thing.
GATTACA?
~~~
leggomylibro
Can't CRISPR achieve stable transfection through pathways like AAV, though? If
that's the case, can't the cell lines carry on the changes without any need
for on-going therapy?
~~~
xorxornop
Yup. You'd target sex cells instead, but that's only a slight modification.
------
dharma1
I have a feeling this won't stop at medical use cases
~~~
Ralfp
Most of technology is neither good or evil, and has usages in both civilian
and military space. That is how the things are with technological progress.
Machine learning may be used to find corelation between gene mutations and
cancer, but it may also be used to put missile into unsuspecting enemy.
Roman road system allowed for flow of goods and people within empire on scale
never before seen in acient world, but also for their legions to strike
empire's enemies.
~~~
dharma1
That's true. But I'm not talking just about military use.
I'm talking about germline gene editing, beyond gene therapy.
It will have consequences that span multiple generations, and are self-
replicating. It will completely change the fabric of society. We are going to
be changing what we are as life forms, without really understanding life in
the first place.
[http://www.nature.com/news/don-t-edit-the-human-germ-
line-1....](http://www.nature.com/news/don-t-edit-the-human-germ-line-1.17111)
------
xupybd
Isn't this the back story to I am legend?
------
cowardlydragon
A biotech arms race with the US?
That's laughable after this election.
------
kleigenfreude
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR)
-> Cures Disease
Eventually...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR)
->
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca)
And...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR)
->
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlins_2:_The_New_Batch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlins_2:_The_New_Batch)
I hope we cure a lot of diseases before we get into the bad side of genmods.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cops enter Justin's apartment with guns drawn. Internet pranksters are MESSED up - rms
http://www.justin.tv/blog/list/2007-3-21T1:40:0
======
Alex3917
And this is after two days with only 100 viewers at any given point. How is
this thing going to scale? It's kind of funny once when some psychotic fan
tells the cops that Justin knifed a guy, but how about when some psychotic fan
shows up at his apartment with a knife?
~~~
danw
They're getting up to 350 viewers in the evening now. Not bad for 2 days. Wait
until they hit the mainstream media and then things will get scary
~~~
staunch
I'm as optimistic as anyone and hope they do get a lot more attention, but
let's not ignore the fact that they're still living off the post-launch high.
It remains to be seen if they can move people from novelty to loyal viewers
and how big the audience is for this particular show. I'll definitely be
tuning in regularly. Hell, I'd pay if they keep the quality good.
~~~
joshwa
I don't think their business model is reliant on THIS show being super-
sucessful-- they're building a platform to sell to other folks who want to do
live video over the web. Think Paris Hilton and porn (not necessarily two
different markets).
~~~
zkinion
This is EXACTLY what I've been saying. To me, thats just a testing/proving
ground. Get some buzz about the idea, and then try to license it to reality tv
shows/celebs/iraq war reporter/hot girls/anything else thats more entertaining
than startup founders.
------
rms
Seems like they took the video down, or the archive is broken.
For when it comes back up, it happened just after 1:40AM PST on March 21st.
------
plusbryan
Justin: You guys should put a comments section on your vid clips.
Maybe it's time for Justin to consider hiring a bodyguard.
------
palish
What the hell. Do people not realize they're messing with other people's
lives? Sociopaths...
------
davidw
I can't see anything...
------
zaidf
Nice stunt:)
~~~
pg
It wasn't a stunt; that was all too real.
------
zkinion
I wanted to send the male escourts to their place...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is There Any Doubt That Gov Chooses the Winners? - euroclydon
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16748
======
dreyfiz
This headline is poor. Here's my attempt at better: "Is the Fed artificially
propping up demand and prices for equities?"
~~~
chasingsparks
Alternatively,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Mark...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Markets)
I've never been very convinced on the alleged pervasiveness of the PPT. It
seems like a convenient catch-all in most cases (i.e. misattribution of an
error term.) That being said, the after-hours returns are a bit unnerving.
------
mynameishere
Correlation between US Dollar (UUP), gold (GLD), the s&p 500 (SPY), and the
Canadian dollar (FXC).
[http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...](http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chdet=1262097000000&chddm=88511&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NYSE:SPY;NYSE:GLD;NYSE:FXC&cmptdms=0;0;0&q=NYSE:UUP&ntsp=0)
The intraday correlation is beginning to break down, especially for gold (this
chart may be obsolete when you click it, so click 1d)
[http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...](http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chdet=1262120400000&chddm=391&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NYSE:SPY;NYSE:GLD;NYSE:FXC&cmptdms=0;0;0&q=NYSE:UUP&ntsp=0)
...but for a while, you could see a minute-by-minute inverse correlation
between the dollar and everything else.
~~~
byrneseyeview
There's an inverse correlation between the gold/dollar exchange rate and the
dollar/everything exchange rate?
------
joe_the_user
There has been a lot of chatter about this in various quarters. One notable
factor is quick, massive trades coming right before closing.
It's worth noting that the Plunge Protection Team was quite open at some
points at least. It was called "The Committee to Save The World" by Time
magazine in a cover story.
Global Research itself is a conspiracy site - perhaps the most sane conspiracy
site but still a conspiracy site.
------
sailormoon
Interesting article, although the submission title is awful.
The level of USG intervention in finance, industry, and possibly now the stock
market is beginning to remind me of Japan Inc of the '80s. America Inc anyone?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Reader to shut down July 1st - halffullheart
http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/13/4101144/google-shuts-down-reader-rss-aggregation-service
======
superchink
This is the worst news I've read all day.
~~~
niggler
Did you read it in google reader?
~~~
superchink
Of course! Which explains why I missed the other HN thread with all the
comments on the front page, and posted here instead.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Internet Your Thing - zenocon
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/daisyworks/internet-your-thing-0
======
zenocon
A colleague and I are building this on nights/weekends. This space has
suddenly given rise to several outfits with the same grand vision -- whereas
one year ago today, none really existed. We feel confident in how our solution
compares to other similar ventures -- in some cases we feel we have a
compelling advantage, but we also lack marketing expertise, time and money.
We aim to build this out primarily for ourselves whether we get funded or not
(but the funding would definitely help).
Any feedback, positive or negative is welcome. I'm definitely having a lot of
fun...more so on this than any other project.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rackspace Investigating Current Issue - mcargian
http://status.mosso.com/2009/12/cloud-sites-dfw-investigating-current-issue.html
======
mark_l_watson
A bit off topic, but: I like the way you get redundancy with Amazon: Elastic
Load Balancing can proxy traffic to multiple availability zones. That said,
Amazon AWS have had outages this year - goes with the business.
------
eli
I was wondering what happened. This wasn't just the cloud, it affected our
dedicated box in DFW too.
------
justinsb
We just had a discussion about this here, about redundancy and how to achieve
it. I think a big problem is that web browsers don't try multiple IP addresses
- am I correct in this?
What I'm thinking is that if a DNS server goes down, no big deal, DNS clients
just try another server. But if a web-browser can't connect on the first
address it resolves, it won't try other addresses?
If so, could this be fixed on the client side? Would this even need a RFC?
~~~
adamt
Almost all modern web browsers will try multiple A records on a connection
failure. You do though need to make sure the connection to the first fails
quickly and doesn't time out for some reason.
~~~
dphiffer
Seems like this could be addressed by a browser UI enhancement. That is, let
the user decide when to cut off a slow connection and try another IP. After n
seconds show a "try elsewhere" bar.
~~~
Timothee
That sounds like a bad solution for such a problem.
Imagine your typical internet user going to yahoo.com and being asked "Try
elsewhere?". They'd have no idea what that means. They don't know what IP
addresses, servers or anything like that is.
------
falsestprophet
This is divine punishment for the term "the cloud."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A tool to execute docker containers in systems without root privileges - sam0x17
https://github.com/indigo-dc/udocker
======
megamindbrian2
Why isn't this the way docker works?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Big Brother at work may be no bad thing - schrofer
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27813535
======
charonn0
> So if we are in favour of meritocracies, we should also be in favour of
> anything that helps us measure merit more accurately.
This obvious propaganda glosses over the problem of deciding what is and is
not meritorious, and who does the monitoring of whom.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Migrating Classic ASP to ASP.NET MVC. Should I? - rogeralan
We currently have a web site using around 20 Classic ASP pages. I’m looking to migrate the ASP pages to ASP.NET MVC as I think this would be a good platform since we have been using Microsoft products for about 10 years. I am not familiar with ASP.NET so this is going to be a pretty huge undertaking for me. I’ve been tasked to come up with the number of hours and approximate costs to do this conversion.<p>I have a couple of questions;
1) In educating myself with ASP.NET, I’m reading that most bloggers etc. are using C#. I was hoping to use my VB skills but know I’m thinking it might make sense to use C#. (only because everyone seems to be doing so. ) Do you agree?
2) What’s the best way to figure out how to size this beast? Learn ASP.NET MVC enough to figure it out myself or hire someone to do it for me. I’m thinking hiring someone.
3) Lastly, do you agree that ASP.NET MVC would be the best choice for us?<p>Thank you for your time.
======
Athtar
Yes, C# is definitely the way to go. VB is still supported but C# is now the
primary language if you are doing .NET development.
What functionality do the current ASP pages provide? Is this for a website or
are these custom applications? Either way, I would recommend switching to MVC
but depending on the use, your approach will vary.
~~~
rogeralan
Lots of forms. like registration and updating user info etc.
Lots of pages that list data using tables. Different logic for changing what
gets displayed on the pages. For example, showing something based on a user
being logged in or not.
------
Tangaroa
C# will make it easier to support in the future since more developers will
know that language, but a port between languages will take the longest amount
of time. If ASP.NET is close enough to ASP, using it could cut your
development time by a great deal.
Is there a reason for moving from ASP to ASP.NET? If the old language is still
supported and the software works as you need it to, the least expensive
solution is to keep the old code.
~~~
rogeralan
Client feels that it's old technology and is worried that MS won't support it
in the future.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Watch LetsEncrypt issue its millionth certificate live - svenfaw
http://crt.sh/?Identity=%25&iCAID=7395
======
metachris
For reference:
* Certificate # 250k: Jan. 5, 2016 [1]
* Certificate # 500k: Feb. 4, 2016 [2]
* Certificate # 1M: Mar. 8, 2016
Seems they went from 250k certs per month in Jan to 500k certs per month in
Feb.
[1]
[https://twitter.com/letsencrypt/status/684221075966705664](https://twitter.com/letsencrypt/status/684221075966705664)
[2]
[https://twitter.com/letsencrypt/status/695077737380208640](https://twitter.com/letsencrypt/status/695077737380208640)
~~~
evilpie
[https://letsencrypt.org/stats/](https://letsencrypt.org/stats/)
------
noja
Who is publishing this list of possibly not-published-anywhere-else SSL sites?
Having them all in a big easy to download list is not what I expected from
LetsEncrypt.
~~~
dan1234
It’s intentional. The general idea is to make it easier to detect fraudulently
issued certificates. LetsEncrypt submit all certificates[0] to Certificate
Transparency[1] logs.
Chrome won’t actually show the green address bar for EV certs unless a CT
proof is provided along with the certificate[2].
[0][https://letsencrypt.org/certificates/](https://letsencrypt.org/certificates/)
[1][https://www.certificate-transparency.org/faq](https://www.certificate-
transparency.org/faq)
[2][https://blog.digicert.com/certificate-transparency-
required-...](https://blog.digicert.com/certificate-transparency-required-ev-
certificates-show-green-address-bar-chrome/)
------
Aissen
Is this a Certificate Transparency log ? It does not look "live" though. How
often is it refreshed ?
~~~
metachris
It refreshed a few minutes ago. Perhaps all 15 min?
~~~
Aissen
Yes, and it just grew by ~20 certificates, which means people aren't gettings
those as quickly as I thought.
~~~
metachris
It jumped from 997,800 to 998,500 to 999,905 within the last 30 minutes. So i
guess in in the next hour they will break 1M.
~~~
aorth
Lucky me, I saw it at 999,905 and then immediately refreshed and it was at
1,000,038. I feel so blessed to have seen it pass 1M. :)
------
jpcarmona
Why does it look that most of issued certificates are for malware /ads
domains? I'm guessing from the weird names.
~~~
fpoling
It could be very well that most domains on the internet are for malware and
ads where the cost of the domain itself is just slightly below break even
point and LetsEncrypt now allows to serve them over https without extra
investment.
------
executesorder66
Yay to : webdemo.jung.de
You win some internet points.
~~~
slevin063
Its vuweb.smf.telema-stg.whitecloud.jp actually!
~~~
zeeZ
I counted the same.
[https://crt.sh/?id=14392504](https://crt.sh/?id=14392504)
------
jorgecurio
has anyone been able to use letsencrypt with AWS api gatway? I've been
struggling for months. I keep getting https crossed out in red when accessing
my aws api gateway endpoint....
I generated certificates for *.mysite.com and when I go to api.mysite.com it
throws warning and if you continue the https in the address bar is red and
crossed out....
------
thejosh
Woo! Just hit the 1,000,038th!
~~~
dan2k3k4
I think this was the 1,000,000th one:
[https://crt.sh/?id=14392497](https://crt.sh/?id=14392497) [but I just counted
back down 38 from the page list...]
~~~
phit_
If you include the most recent you have to count down by 39, yours is the
1,000,001st
~~~
darfs
Why can't it be simply ?id=1000000? .__.
~~~
phit_
the site is owned by Comodo, it shows logs for various CA's
~~~
darfs
Hrm. Ok. Never saw it before and looking atm from mobile. Sorry :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Kiwi Browser is now 100% open-source (including Chrome Extensions support) - rvnx
https://twitter.com/kiwibrowser/status/1251450250289651712
======
maelito
Between this and the new Firefox fenix, soon to replace the old Firefox for
Android, lots of good news !
Kiwi is still way ahead for its support of desktop Android.
------
Amazonerh
I wish there was a way to keep track of the new forks/browsers stemming from
this. Would like to try different chromium browsers that supports extensions,
hacks and modifications.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
When Lightning Strikes Thrice: Breaking Thunderbolt 3 Security - dafrankenstein2
https://thunderspy.io/
======
tptacek
I skimmed the paper and while the research looks solid, just in terms of the
digging they did and the documentation they're providing, this website
_really_ buries its lede: if you've got a Macbook running macOS, the Macbook
IOMMU breaks the DMA attack, which is the thing you're actually worried about
here.
Additionally, regardless of the OS you run, Macbooks aren't affected by the
Security Level/SPI flash hacks they came up with to disable Thunderbolt
security.
~~~
AceJohnny2
Last time Tunderbolt was broken (Thunderclap [1]), it was found that the Linux
driver didn't activate the IOMMU. I assume that's since been fixed.
[1] [https://lwn.net/Articles/782381/](https://lwn.net/Articles/782381/)
~~~
danieldk
It seems to do that now:
[https://christian.kellner.me/2019/07/09/bolt-0-8-with-
suppor...](https://christian.kellner.me/2019/07/09/bolt-0-8-with-support-for-
iommu-protection/)
~~~
fulafel
What's the relationship of the "bolt" project with the default driver support
in Linux?
------
mehrdadn
> there is no malicious piece of hardware that the attacker tricks you into
> using
> All the attacker needs is 5 minutes alone with the computer, a screwdriver,
> and some easily portable hardware.
Just started reading, but the comparison is already a little bizarre. It
almost seems like the digital version of "This murderer is on the loose and
you're in danger! He doesn't need to inject poison into your food. All he
needs is just 5 minutes in front of you with a knife!"
~~~
ashtonkem
As a general rule, anyone with physical access to your machine already owns
it. Physical security matters, a lot.
That being said, malicious hardware is a problem. A hacked phone charging
terminal at the airport could certainly be a serious problem if there are
enough vulnerabilities in the USB stack.
~~~
mjg59
> As a general rule, anyone with physical access to your machine already owns
> it.
People frequently say this, but never really explain it. As far as I can tell,
it translates to "Nobody cares about physical security" \- except it's clear
that people /do/. Things like Boot Guard are only really relevant to physical
attacks. DMA protection in firmware is only really relevant to physical
attacks. It's extremely obvious that the industry is attempting to avoid short
term physical access to a device being sufficient to compromise it, and
research that demonstrates that it's still possible is valuable.
~~~
maxbond
Physical access is just such a rich attack surface that keeping your computer
away from malicious actors is the right and proper solution.
An extreme example a pentester imparted to me once was, if someone could spend
sufficient time alone with my laptop, they could remove my hard drive and
insert it into an identical laptop with a hardware or firmware backdoor
preinstalled. We were discussing nation-state adversaries, but the general
principle applies.
Another example is attacks on encrypted drives (so-called "evil maid"
attacks). If a computer is booted and the drive is decrypted, an attacker with
physical access could open the computer, remove the RAM, and download it's
contents, thereby stealing the encryption key. If the computer is powered
down, it's still vulnerable to other attacks; enrypted drives necessarily have
cleartext code for accepting the password & decrypting the drive. You could
modify this code to log the decryption key, or broadcast it over your device's
radios.
There's also the classic Windows "sticky key" exploit, where you replace the
sticky key binary with a program that gives you administrator access, reboot
the computer, and then activate sticky keys.
You could install a keystroke logger. You could install a device to record
monitor output. You could log network traffic.
I've yet to find a kiosk environment that I couldn't break out of. Once I was
able to break out of a scanning kiosk environment, and into a Windows desktop,
by turning the quality settings all the way up and crashing the kiosk. That
was one of the more difficult examples; most of the time all you need is to
find a way to right-click. (I had the proper authority to investigate these
kiosks.)
The point is that the list goes on.
It is true, as you say, that there has been progress in implementing
mitigations, and that there are people who care deeply about these issues. A
counterexample might be SIM cards, TPMs, and other HSMs. These systems are
able to provide better guarantees by encapsulating their peripherals and being
willing to self destruct. But that could describe a cell phone, tablet a
laptop, too.
Maybe in the future this "law" won't be so hard and fast.
~~~
mjg59
> Physical access is just such a rich attack surface that keeping your
> computer away from malicious actors is the right and proper solution.
Keeping attackers away from your computer is certainly the best solution, just
as keeping your computer off the network is the simplest answer to avoiding
network security issues. But that's not always an option, so we still need to
care about it.
> An extreme example a pentester imparted to me once was, if someone could
> spend sufficient time alone with my laptop, they could remove my hard drive
> and insert it into an identical laptop with a hardware or firmware backdoor
> preinstalled.
That'll be detected with any properly implemented remote attestation solution
(switching the machine will change the endorsement key, so attestation will
fail)
> If a computer is booted and the drive is decrypted, an attacker with
> physical access could open the computer, remove the RAM, and download it's
> contents, thereby stealing the encryption key.
Removing soldered-on RAM from a motherboard fast enough to maintain the
contents is not a straightforward attack. Not theoretically impossible, but
you're not going to have a good time of it.
> If the computer is powered down, it's still vulnerable to other attacks;
> enrypted drives necessarily have cleartext code for accepting the password &
> decrypting the drive. You could modify this code to log the decryption key,
> or broadcast it over your device's radios.
Will be detected via remote attestation.
> There's also the classic Windows "sticky key" exploit, where you replace the
> sticky key binary with a program that gives you administrator access, reboot
> the computer, and then activate sticky keys.
How do you do that with an encrypted drive? Look, yes, it's not _easy_ to
guard against physical attacks. But some organisations that genuinely _do_
have to deal with state level attackers care about physical security and care
about mitigating it, and we have moved well beyond the "physical access means
you've lost" state of affairs. Finding new cases that allow attackers with
physical access to subvert our understanding of the security boundaries of a
machine is of significant interest.
~~~
maxbond
You raise some interesting points, and have force me to question my
assumptions that this is simply a lost cause.
------
vvanders
Looks like most of these require physical access to the SPI flash and not just
the thunderbolt port unless I'm reading the disclosure wrong.
------
osy
This is the kind of garbage that the infosec community often memes about. A
marketing website, a domain name, a cute logo for a vanity project
masquerading as security research. Basically every one of the "seven"
vulnerabilities boils down to "if someone can flash the SPI of the thunderbolt
controller then xxx" but if they can flash the TB SPI, then they can also
flash the BIOS SPI which has a lot of the same "vulnerabilities" but arguably
is more impactful. The reason they only mentioned TB is because the BIOS stuff
is well known and you can't put your name on it.
Let's break down each of the "vulnerability".
1\. "However, we have found authenticity is not verified at boot time, upon
connecting the device, or at any later point." This is actually false. Like,
the author either didn't experiment properly or is lying/purposely misleading
you. The firmware IS verified at boot for Alpine Ridge and Titan Ridge
(Intel's TB3 controllers). They aren't for older controllers which does NOT
support TB3. When verification fails, the controller falls back into a "safe
mode" which does NOT run the firmware code for any of the ARC processors in
the Ridge controller (there are a handful of processors where the firmware
contains compressed code for). I'm willing to bet the author did not manage to
reverse engineer the proprietary Huffman compression the firmware uses and
therefore couldn't have loaded their own firmware. Because if they did, it
wouldn't have worked. Now the RSA signature verification scheme they use to
verify the firmware does suffer from some weaknesses but afaik doesn't lead to
arbitrary code execution (on any of the Ridge ARC processors). I would love to
be proven wrong here with real evidence though ;)
2\. Basically the string identifiers inside the firmware isn't
signed/verified. This has no security implications beyond you can spoof
identifiers and make the string "pwned" appear in system details when you plug
the device in and authenticate it. Basically if you've ever developed custom
USB devices you can see how silly this is as a "vulnerability."
3\. This is literally the same as #2.
4\. Yes, TB2 is vulnerable to many DMA attacks as demonstrated in the past.
Yes, TB3 has a TB2 compatibility mode. Yes, that means the same
vulnerabilities exist in compatibility mode which is why you can disable it.
5\. This one is technically true. If you open the case up, and flash the SPI
chip containing the TB3 firmware, you can patch the security level set in BIOS
and do stuff like re-enable TB2 if the user disabled it. But if I were the
attacker, I would instead look at the SPI chip right next to it containing the
UEFI firmware and NVRAM variables (most of which aren't signed/encryption in
any modern PC).
6\. SPI chips have interfaces for writing, erasing, and locking. If you have
direct access to the chip you can abuse these pins to permanently brick the
device. Here's another way: take your screwdriver and jam it into the
computer.
7\. Apple does not enable TB3 security features on Boot Camp. I guess this one
is vaguely the only real "vulnerability" although it's well known and Apple
doesn't care much about Windows security anyways (they don't enable Intel Boot
Guard or BIOS Guard or TPM or any other Intel/Microsoft security feature).
Not that it matters but my personal experience with TB3 is that I've done
significant reverse engineering of the Ridge controllers for the Hackintosh
community.
~~~
mjg59
> they can also flash the BIOS SPI
Boot Guard makes that impractical in most cases. The point here is that on
machines that don't implement kernel DMA protection, you're able to drop the
Thunderbolt config to the lowest security level and then write-protect the
Thunderbolt SPI so the system firmware can't re-enable it, making it easier to
perform a DMA attack over Thunderbolt and sidestep the Boot Guard protections.
This isn't a world-ending vulnerability, but it's of interest to anyone who
has physical attacks as part of their threat model.
~~~
osy
Boot Guard is not implemented on most (all?) self built machines and a lot of
pre-builts as well. But even if it is enabled, UEFI variables are not
protected at all. You can disable Secure Boot just by overwriting UEFI
variables and then boot any arbitrary code from USB.
~~~
mjg59
Which will change the measurements in PCR7, which is a detectable event that
will break Bitlocker unsealing.
------
justaguyonline
What would it take to have a Thunderbolt/USB C condom? You know, like those
standard USB adapter that just drops the data leads on a usb charger to make
attacks like this impossible. Maybe we would have to implement a hardware
switch on the device itself?
I'm not going to feel safe charging with a public use charger until I find
some way to insure only power and not data is making it to my device. Even POE
feels like it's safer than modern peripheral standards right now.
(I admit this might not be perfectly linked to the article, it's just a need
I've felt for a while but I can't seem to buy a solution for.)
~~~
dannyw
How about a SSH-like “trust on first use” prompt for all data connections?
Each USB/TB device has its own pub/private keypair.
If you ever plug in a charging cable and get the prompt, you know something is
wrong.
~~~
zokier
That is exactly what TB has. The problem is that the device private key (in
many(/all?) devices) sits in the flash memory completely unprotected so anyone
can clone it.
~~~
redactions
It is not like ssh at all. It is a problem that secrets are kept in the flash
and it is also a problem that those secrets are sent over the untrusted
channel.
~~~
zokier
The key is transferred only on the initial connection, after that a
challenge/response mechanism is used. So from UX point of view it achieves
similar TOFU, even if the technical details vary a bit. Sure, its bit worse
but it is still very much trust on first use.
~~~
redactions
After the device is connected, use looks like a key consistency aware system
like an ssh client. It is as you note very different in the first protocol
run.
To extract the device secret value, an attacker needs to connect the target
device to an attacker device. As you note, the thunderbolt device leaks the
secret value over the untrusted channel. Impersonation of that device after
that moment is trivial as a result.
The entire cryptographic protocol is broken from the start.
~~~
zokier
> To extract the device secret value, an attacker needs to connect the target
> device to an attacker device. As you note, the thunderbolt device leaks the
> secret value over the untrusted channel.
If victin device is connected to attacker host, then only responses to
challenges are potentially leaked. That might allow active mitm, but not
cloning the key. That's the whole reason TFA needed to go poking around in
flash to get the keys.
Not saying that TB is the best security protocol in the universe, but as far
as I can tell the vulnerabilities exposed here are mostly implementation flaws
rather than protocol level issues.
~~~
redactions
ssh uses asymmetric keys and the cache on the client has a three tuple
(host,ip,public key) which allows a client to notice a difference in any of
the three elements. By comparison, Thunderbolt leaks the entire secret as the
first step and subsequent steps use derived values. ssh is secure if the key
doesn't change and isn't compromised through other means. Thunderbolt is not
secure and it fails under a passive surveillance adversary, it also fails for
active adversaries.
I take your point that subsequent secret use in the n+1 protocol run isn't as
bad as the very first run, and as you note, that probably doesn't matter in
the face of an active attacker.
If Thunderbolt had used asymmetric cryptography, I would probably agree with
you that the protocol has the same semantics as ssh. The reason that I
disagree is that it appears to have the same semantics for the user interface
but the underlying protocol differences are what make the protocol unsuitable
for use. It's at least part of why Intel has now retired Security Levels and
is leaning so strongly on kDMA. Security Levels as a protocol is simply not
cryptographically secure for any meaningful definition of secure as the first
step exposes the base secret value.
Note: the attack doesn't require the use of a flash clip, that's just a simple
way to demonstrate device specific state extraction.
------
graton
I wonder if that could be used by used sellers of MacBooks to get into the
computers.
[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akw558/apples-t2-security...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akw558/apples-t2-security-
chip-has-created-a-nightmare-for-macbook-refurbishers)
I guess MacBook resellers sometimes get computers where the password has been
set and they can't get into the computers. I imagine they would be motivated
to find anyway they can to unlock the computers.
~~~
tptacek
No; for Macbooks, this work reduces to BadUSB.
------
oicat
There is a nice write-up about this on attackerkb. If you're not familiar with
it it's a community to provide assessments of vulnerabilities and point out
which are worth stopping everything to patch and which are mostly harmless.
It's currently in open beta. Main site:
[https://attackerkb.com/](https://attackerkb.com/) Thunderspy assessment:
[https://attackerkb.com/topics/mPaHZgsUvk/thunderspy](https://attackerkb.com/topics/mPaHZgsUvk/thunderspy)
------
zerof1l
There were news sometime ago that Microsoft did not include thunderbolt in
their surface 3 because it was insecure. I wonder if that's related to this
and whether Microsoft knew about this for a while.
------
mschuster91
> Contrary to USB, Thunderbolt is a proprietary connectivity standard. Device
> vendors are required to apply for Intel’s Thunderbolt developer program, in
> order to obtain access to protocol specifications and the Thunderbolt
> hardware supply chain. In addition, devices are subject to certification
> procedures before being admitted to the Thunderbolt ecosystem.
I thought that this had changed with USB-C?!
------
dafrankenstein2
Easy read on the Wired magazine: [https://www.wired.com/story/thunderspy-
thunderbolt-evil-maid...](https://www.wired.com/story/thunderspy-thunderbolt-
evil-maid-hacking/)
------
dafrankenstein2
This video shows the POC demo:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uvSZA1F9os](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uvSZA1F9os)
------
person_of_color
Really though, if an attacker has unencumbered access to one’s device, all
security goes flying out the window.
The website is highly self-promoting.
~~~
mappu
_> if an attacker has unencumbered access to one’s device, all security goes
flying out the window_
This is rapidly starting to become less true - full disk encryption is
everywhere, backed by hardware TPMs; the Lockdown LSM prevents root from owing
the boot chain; devices with soldered RAM are functionally immune to cold boot
attacks.
There are still things an attacker can do - put a hardware keylogger on the
keyboard wires, a skimmer on the fingerprint reader - but that requires future
input from the victim. It is feasible today to defend against a physical
attacker if you have the right hardware upfront and don't use it after the
attack.
~~~
userbinator
_This is rapidly starting to become less true_
Unfortunately, both for right-to-repair and actually owning the hardware you
bought.
~~~
gruez
TPMs don't impede your ability to repair anything. Soldered ram is a hassle,
but it's not any more malicious than soldered CPUs. It's a design choice, and
tradeoffs had to be made.
~~~
mappu
_> TPMs don't impede your ability to repair anything_
There are some stories like this:
[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akw558/apples-t2-security...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akw558/apples-t2-security-
chip-has-created-a-nightmare-for-macbook-refurbishers)
It's suggested that many such devices might be stolen. But there will also be
devices where the user forgot to wipe their data (or didn't know how); or
devices that are only just damaged enough that you can't wipe the user data.
Probably an official Apple store can refurbish them somehow, but that is the
NOBUS / EARN IT argument.
~~~
p_l
Well, that's more an explicit T2 issue that goes beyond what is known as
"industry standard" TPM. Apple just hates you a (big) bit extra.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
RADXA Rock Pro and Rock Light (ARM Development Boards) - tbrock
http://radxa.com/Home
======
vardump
Not much information about the CPU. It says only "ARM Cortex-A9 quad core @
1.6Ghz". Makes me worried it's again one of those Allwinner or Rockchip cases.
In other words, a lot of cores, high frequency and low performance. Number-
marketing.
~~~
ojn
It's Rockchip RK3188. Performance is on par on the ever-so-hyped i.MX6 Novena
laptop.
There's been some efforts to reverse-engineer the Mali 400 and write open
drivers for it. I'm not sure if they're still making progress or if the
project stalled though.
------
mschuster91
Looks nice, but I miss one crucial thing for me on the specsheet - what levels
of hardware video acceleration (both encoding and decoding) are available and
how well are these supported under majority of media players (vlc, mplayer,
omxplayer?)
~~~
tbrock
It looks like they both have Mali GPUs which are very well supported by Linux.
I was considering getting an ODroid board from hard kernel which has the same
GPU and is able to play tekken, run OpenGL applications etc, but this seems
like a much better deal.
~~~
darklajid
I'm having a (low-end, of course) U3 from ODroid - and it is collecting dust,
while my Pi is actively used as XBMC (soon Kali) setup.
The ODroid seems more of a tinkering device:
\- no polished media related distribution as far as I could tell (the usual
solution is running Debian or something and automatically launching xbmc, as
root more often than not in the couple things I tried)
\- no way to fix the hdmi output (i.e. overscan issues) - whereas the Pi has a
simple text configuration file for that.
What I'm trying to say is: More hardware power doesn't actually give you a
better experience..
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Employee at a failing startup - burnerburner123
I’ve worked at a startup for less than a year. I joined because the team seemed amazing, the pay was market rate, and the intros were very strong. They are at series A now, less than two dozen employees.<p>But things seem to be falling apart. A large portion of people have left recently. Other people muse about having nothing at all to do for weeks or months. The CEO is disengaged, and taking meetings with PE, VC, and misc. investors even though allegedly there are 12 months of runway. (No one is supposed to know about these meetings, I found out)<p>Basic business process surrounding sales and product are nonexistent.<p>So my question is: for those of you who have worked at early stage startups, how much of this smells, how much of this is growing pains, and how much of this suggests that the company is about to be sold / acquired for scraps? And what did you do about it, or did you just watch it sink?
======
towaway1138
Not sure my experiences were typical, but stuck with it as long as I cared,
then moved on. At a minimum, keep your resume hot, keep networking, and assume
that all equity will be worthless. If your cash salary is sufficient, and
you're having fun or learning, maybe stick around. If nothing else, watching a
company crash and burn is educational.
~~~
burnerburner123
True, although it is stronger footing to be looking for a new position while
still employed...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Laravel Spark 1.0 is now available - codegeek
https://spark.laravel.com/
======
dopeboy
What's the state of Laravel right now? Is it gaining adoption?
Pre 2015, I rolled my own PHP framework. I eventually decided I should take
the time to learn a modern framework and narrowed my choices down to Django &
Laravel. Ended up going with Django; just curious to see what I missed out on.
~~~
Jemaclus
If all the PHP nay-sayers used Laravel, the public opinion toward PHP would
shift dramatically to be more favorable. It's a modern framework that makes
using PHP a true joy, as opposed to the wrangling we had with PHP pre-5.4.
It pretty much ships with everything you need to build an app: scaffolding,
migrations, authentication, middleware, templating, caching. Most of getting
up and running is really configuring a bunch of settings that takes virtually
no time at all.
I'm a huge Laravel fan. They also have a slimmed down version called Lumen,
which is pretty much specifically for APIs. Lumen stays up-to-date with
Laravel, so you get the benefits of both worlds there.
~~~
Artemis2
For some reason, PHP is not just a language, _it 's a spirit of writing bad
software_.
A few weeks back I needed to port some crypto from Laravel to Go. I did not
have too much trouble – apart the strange usage of Rijndael-256 that Laravel
had until one version or two ago. When I looked at the way they were using
keys to encrypt data, I realized that they were directly using "application
private key". Is that bad? It shouldn't, but Laravel makes sure all the keys
it generates are ASCII, for copy/pasting convenience. What happens if you're
using a 256-bit key that can be represented with ASCII? The key space is 10^20
times smaller (the entropy of a byte in the key goes from 256 to 62!). That's
been a thing in the most "modern framework" in PHP for more than three years.
I'm far from being a security professional, but spending one hour on one file
was enough to find a basic security issue. Let's just say we're not writing
code with Laravel anymore.
I must mention that Taylor Otwell (the author) was extremely fast for fixing
the problem. He is probably among the best open source project maintainers I
know, and desserves to live off this work on Laravel.
Here is the commit:
[https://github.com/laravel/framework/commit/370ae34d41362c3a...](https://github.com/laravel/framework/commit/370ae34d41362c3adb61bc5304068fb68e626586)
------
fideloper
Link for the official site:
[https://spark.laravel.com](https://spark.laravel.com)
Spark and Laravel are a super good combo to start an app with, I personally
think php's ease of deployment (plus how cheap Laravel Forge is) blows rails
out of the water.
~~~
dang
Ok, we changed the URL to that from [http://learninglaravel.net/laravel-
spark-10-is-now-available](http://learninglaravel.net/laravel-spark-10-is-now-
available), which has less information.
------
michaelbuddy
Do laravel php projects "just work" like regular PHP might on inexpensive
shared hosting? Or do you need a custom setup similar to all these js node /
react projects seem to require?
~~~
Jemaclus
You need to install Composer, the PHP package manager, and then install it,
but there aren't a whole lot of OS dependencies there. You don't have to
install node, then npm, then... ad nauseum. You just drop a composer binary on
there, and then run composer install, and it installs the app dependencies.
I personally find it much less headache-inducing than NPM, but I think
practically, they're about the same in terms of what they do.
~~~
vlucas
What you described is literally the same process. No need to arbitrarily bash
other programming languages or ecosystems.
PHP:
(1) Install PHP (2) Install Composer (3) Run 'composer install' to download
dependencies
Node:
(1) Install Node.js (2) Install npm (3) Run 'npm install' to download
dependencies
~~~
Blaine0002
Well he did refer to most shared hosting which do usually come with php
already installed, and you may not have sudo. installing composer is simply
curling a phar file, or you could even bundle it into your repository if you
want to, im really not sure what to tell you.
------
bitdeveloper
Has anyone seen in the documentation how they are handling pricing in the long
term? I.e., if $299 is for the lifetime of 1.0 releases/upgrades, or something
else?
------
jitl
This looks pretty great! Are there similar offerings other languages, or as
open-source software?
------
sgt101
Why not go the whole hog (or Elephant) and call it Hadoop?
~~~
Jemaclus
because this isn't Apache Spark?
------
codegeek
really like this. Always thought of building a similar app but here it is
already. For $99, it is a steal :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Green capitalism is using Greta Thunberg - ForFreedom
https://medium.com/@frackfree_eu/green-capitalism-is-using-greta-thunberg-66768db6c0e1
======
agitator
What's the alternative?
The people and companies opposing green initiatives have entrenched industries
and money. They have been waging media and lobbying campaigns for decades. If
it takes some people pushing their green agenda for profit in order to save
the planet, so be it. At least their businesses are moving us in the right
direction and not holding us back.
------
nabla9
Author is green anarchist. I think it fair for her to criticize Greta Thunberg
if he thinks that green capitalism[1] can't work.
But using the word 'using' is unfair. If Greta Thunberg would be green
anarchist, it would be the other anarchists using her no doubt. To work with
others is to be used and use others.
~~~
spraak
> But using the word 'using' is unfair.
The point the author is making is summed up here:
> Greta Thunberg finds herself advising those she castigates.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Microsoft can't afford Windows 7 to fail - bdfh42
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8310867.stm
======
makecheck
The article listed at least one thing -- compatibility with older Windows
versions -- that isn't part of _every_ version of Windows 7.
I hate this kind of marketing soup: nobody knows what Windows 7 will really be
like, because articles and commercials can claim anything that's in the $399
version. It's time for someone to upgrade a 10-year-old-laptop after spending
$100 on the cheapest version of Windows 7, and write an article about that
"Windows 7".
------
michaelcampbell
It won't. Does anything truly think it will? I'm no MS shill, but I haven't
heard any "faults" from anyone using Win 7 that will affect the vast majority
of users, and that's where their bread and butter is.
------
rmason
Very suspicious of all the hype. Vista had a lot of over the top enthusiasm
and we know how that one turned out.
~~~
ezy
Vista was really obviously bad on release. I mean _really_ unusably bad. It
wasn't just that it was only on par with XP, it was substantially _worse_.
Windows 7 is quite different. It's not going to blow you away, but it works
and looks a better than XP. The "bit" better puts it right about on par with
OSX for various tasks -- although the GUI consistency is off because Windows
as a far longer history than OSX, and can't afford to blow off bw compat
(that's part of the Vista error).
There are parts that still feel like they're stuck in 1991 (especially the
command line), but that's Windows for you -- and I don't expect that to
change.
If anything worries me, it's MSFT itself. Their management really stinks,
which makes me question how stable the internals of the system are -- are they
managing the development of windows more tightly than, lets say, their mobile
effort? One hopes so... but one never knows for sure.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New U.S. rules may impact Second Life, other "games of skill" web sites - ckinnan
http://www.netfreedomforever.com/vote.php
======
jamesbritt
Wow. Doesn't this effectively cover the stock market?
~~~
jws
They have an exemption written in, as do insurance companies and fantasy
sports. Pity the other industries that didn't have the vigilance to detect
this bill in progress and the foresight to hire a lobbyist.
~~~
tesseract
So just recast participation in the game of skill as the purchase of an
insurance policy. (Granted, this is probably easier for, say, Intrade than for
something like SL.)
But they probably thought of that and were somewhat specific about the
allowable types of insurance.
edit: I went and read the relevant text of the act. Especially in light of
recent events, I find it amusing that Congress couldn't come up with a
definition of "gambling" that inherently excluded derivatives trading - they
had to do that explicitly as well.
~~~
wensing
I thought one major difference is that in "gambling" your bet is final,
whereas derivatives may be unloaded at will (assuming you can find a buyer or
don't need one).
~~~
eru
I can introduce this feature in gaming - and it will still be gaming
essentially.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig - dankohn1
http://lessig.tumblr.com/post/151983995587/on-the-wikileak-ed-emails-between-tanden-and
======
dcposch
This is incredibly gracious of Lessig, to defend someone who treated him
poorly.
I donated to both his ill-fated Mayday PAC and his ill-fated presidential
campaign last year. He is a selfless guy who is trying to address the root
cause of US political dysfunction.
I wish him the best of luck in his future projects.
~~~
snowwrestler
Donald Trump has spent far less money than any presidential candidate in
recent history.
I am hopeful that this election will finally illustrate to people like Larry
Lessig that there are worse things in politics than money. Money is just a
tool.
~~~
dcposch
Just because you found an example of a politician making it fairly far (but
probably not even getting elected) without the support of the rich does _not_
mean that money in politics isn't a problem.
In America, there are two kinds of politicians who can get by without wealthy
donors:
1\. grassroots candidates who go viral, who can get big social media
followings and lots of organic non-ad media
2\. independently rich people, who can simply bankroll their own campaigns
Bernie Sanders is an example of #1. Ross Perot is an example of #2. Donald
Trump is, to an extent, both #1 and #2!
_Most politicians in the US, both in Congress and at the state level, are
neither #1 nor #2._ They depend on donors who typically write $1000+ checks,
every single election cycle. As a result, they spend a shocking amount of
their time talking to rich people.
It's called Call Time, and for the average congressperson, it's about four
hours _per day_ :
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/14/the-m...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/14/the-
most-depressing-graphic-for-members-of-congress/)
\--
When people like Lawrence Lessig or Bernie talk about "getting money out of
politics", they are not referring to third-world style quid pro quo
corruption. They are not talking about an envelope of cash passed under a
restaurant table.
They are talking about something more subtle that's absolutely pervasive in
modern US politics: career politicians whose continued employment depends on
their ability to raise money, who every day meet and hear from the wealthiest
crust of their constituency.
When you spend four hours every day on the phone with the kind of people who
might write a $2700 max-allowable-donation check for some representative's re-
election campaign, it affects your thinking. Donor issues are always top of
mind. How you vote on that pipeline bill today is going to make it either a
lot easier or a lot harder to talk to those twenty or thirty guys you have to
call next week, asking for money.
~~~
snowwrestler
Congress is not uniquely problematic because members of Congress have to raise
money. Everyone has to raise money. Larry Lessig has had to raise money many
times in his career.
There are two reasons that members of Congress have to spend so much time
raising money.
First, there are strict limits on federal campaign contributions. Candidates
can only get up to $2,700 from each person per cycle, and no money from
organizations at all. Nonprofit guys like Bill McKibben or Grover Norquist can
land $100,000 in one meeting. It will take a federal candidate at least 37
individual donors to get the same amount.
I'm not saying the limits are bad. I think they are good. But they have side
effects.
Second, people don't want to give money to politicians, so it takes a ton of
time and energy to get even small donations.
And here is where Lessig and others have been so counter-productive. They
think they're making the sort of subtle argument that you describe. They think
they're firing people up for action. But what they've actually done is
promulgate 2 simple messages: 1) Money In Politics Is Bad, and 2) The System
Is So Broken You Can't Win.
Both these messages discourage their fans from engaging effectively in
political and civic institutions--thereby making things even worse for
themselves. Lessig told all his fans that money is bad and politics is
unwinnable... of course he's having trouble creating a political movement!
~~~
dcposch
> Congress is not uniquely problematic because members of Congress have to
> raise money. Everyone has to raise money. Larry Lessig has had to raise
> money many times in his career.
I bet Lessig has never spent four hours cold-calling wealthy potential donors
even once, let alone every single weekday for years at a time.
An academic like Lessig may have to write grant applications every few months.
Legislators, both state and Congressional, _are_ uniquely problematic. Few
jobs are so constantly dependent on the favor of wealthy donors, and none are
in as good a position to repay their generosity, usually in subtle and
indirect ways, once in office.
------
slantedview
Who would expect such a classy response to a threat of violence against a
"smug" and "pompous" professor. Or maybe Tanden is wrong and it is actually
she who needs an adjusting.
~~~
teraflop
I agree that the email is mean-spirited and unpleasant, but "I'd like to kick
the shit out of him _on twitter_ " is clearly not an actual threat of
violence.
~~~
slantedview
Fair enough. As the comment below points out, more likely she had in mind the
idea of personally ruining him, as she has tried to do (and partially
succeeded) to at least one other person in the past.
------
aub3bhat
I agree its very gracious of Lessig and completely agree that individuals
deserve privacy. But lets be honest, even in this case the forgiveness
originates in fact that all individuals involved are on the same side in this
election. Further the justification about her being engaged with public /
public-sector is hollow. Had it been Karl Rove saying the same thing, would
the anger be justified?
If we are at all going to judge people by the private communication then lets
at least be consistent.
E.g. Here is the the women who had a left-wing blogger fired:
"Progressive blogger fired for calling Hillary Clinton ally a 'scumbag'"
Read more: [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/matt-bruenig-neera-
tan...](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/matt-bruenig-neera-tanden-joan-
walsh-hillary-clinton-223439#ixzz4NVay494i)
~~~
aaron695
> Journalist Glenn Greenwald also jumped into the conversation to suggest that
> Tanden had influenced Demos' decision to part ways with Bruenig
I see no real proof here?
~~~
tanderson92
There is no public proof; at this point it is a he-said she-said over what
happened behind the scenes. I acknowledge the benefit of the doubt in this
situation goes to Tanden. Though I do not have good experiences with her
truthfulness and tend to disbelieve her on this point, I acknowledge others
don't share the background and will likely (fairly) conclude otherwise.
I am hopeful that future Wikileaks releases shed some light on this affair.
------
doe88
TLDR; _When they go low, you go high._
------
lhnz
You can't just blame the attacker, it's poor information security practice
which enabled the leaks.
~~~
Frondo
If you want to assign responsibility for these leaks, assign it on the people
who have taken action: the hackers who obtained them and the organization that
published them.
Neither the writers nor recipients in this exchange bear responsibility for
their exchange being published without their consent.
~~~
lhnz
I am _not_ blaming the victim.
A sender of an email should not bear responsibility for an underlying email
system's poor information security (expect in specific cases in which they are
highly-technical _and_ are transferring highly confidential information).
It is the administrator(s) of the email server's responsibility to ensure that
both their users and the people they interact with are given basic protections
against hackers.
There is no point in blaming a hacker for attacking an email server as they
will not listen to you.
The only sane solution is for the administrator of the email system and those
that hired them to be responsible for how secure their systems are and to act
accordingly.
------
IIAOPSW
I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions
aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of
speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he
would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to
affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe
in then he wouldn't be trying to get Donald-lets-silence-my-critics-Trump into
office.
I guess in light of new evidence I changed my opinion. Why can't other people
be rational like me.
~~~
cjdkcnsnd
Please just stop. Have we really become so blindly partisan as a nation that
we complain about uneven distribution of evidence of corruption rather than
the corruption itself? Ponder that for a moment, please.
~~~
byuu
While I am certain there are some troubling revelations in there, I fail to
see how Neera Tanden shit-talking about Lawrence Lessig is in any way relevant
to the public interest. It's simply an unethical violation of privacy. Had he
filtered it to just the important stuff and released it right away,
journalists and the public could be having real conversations about said
material right now instead.
Of course, being fair, they didn't do that great a job with the release of
cables in the past either. Being fair, my political bias probably swayed me
into overlooking that back then more than I should have.
Transparency should be where it matters. People should have a right to privacy
for personal comments such as this.
I think Julian being trapped in a room for the past several years has not been
kind to his health. It's been a shame to see him reduced to a shill for one
political party.
~~~
IIAOPSW
I'll go ahead and defend wikileaks on this count (despite my statements about
Julian in the parent comment).
The entire point of wikileaks is that they publish information as is under the
belief that the public is smart enough to reach their own conclusions without
editorializing. This means publishing everything they got with its full
mundane nature on display (if for no other reason than as proof that they are
not hiding things).
The policy of wikileaks is that they will black out only information which
could put people's lives at risk. Merely being embarrassing is not sufficient
criteria to get blacked out. Agree or disagree with their philosophy, at least
they have been consistent about it. Releasing the Tanden-Lessig e-mail is
totally in line with what I'd expect from them.
~~~
byuu
I understand that, I just don't agree with it.
How many of us would want to have everything we've ever said or done in
private aired out in public, under the guise that "the public is smart enough
to not editorialize anything"?
I'm quite certain that would have disastrous consequences on my life, as well
as just about anyone else's. How about yours?
That said, when it comes to something affecting the public interest (eg
government corruption), then yes, I am all for airing such matters.
Transparent government is good. Transparent "what kind of porn does Joe Public
watch at home?" is not.
~~~
IIAOPSW
I agree in principal but in practice how do you decide what to include and
what not to include. I respect that wikileaks has a rigorous criteria despite
having the flaws you point out. If you can think of a well defined way to
incorporate the common sense concept of respecting Joe Public's personal space
I'd be all for it.
~~~
DasIch
Journalists do this all the time.
------
slantedview
While Lessig is gracious here, I don't have to be.
Tanden and Podesta are representative of what will become the Clinton white
house. This sort of rhetoric indicates where they, and Clinton, stand on a
variety of interconnected issues, from money in politics to lobbying and
outright corruption.
Lessig has done more than almost anyone to champion the idea of separating
money from politics. To many, he is a hero. To Tanden and Podesta, two of the
current (and future) policy leaders of the Clinton administration, he is a
smug professor who needs to have the shit kicked out of him. This should tell
you all you need to know about the outlook and direction of a future Clinton
administration.
Never in American history has money had such a stranglehold on our elected
officials. The winners in this system, such as Hillary Clinton, are perfectly
happy with the status quo. People like Lessig want to blow it up. Take note.
~~~
xoa
>While Lessig is gracious here, I don't have to be.
You don't have to be, but it might have been a good idea to do so given
there's always the chance one is missing a bit of history, like you (and some
of the other comments in this thread) are demonstrating here. The post-hoc
heroification of Lessig is somewhat sickening on a technical forum given how
badly he blew it _Eldred vs. Ashcroft_ with exactly the sort of Mr. Smug
Constitutionalist Professor attitude that the Podesta email called out. The
result of that case was a huge blow, maybe the only best chance there was to
at least prevent flagrant, _retroactive_ infinite extensions of copyright, to
help in some way protect Public Domain, and despite direct hints from the
justices he just refused to engage in practical core economic arguments in
favor of academic scholarship. This was obvious to everyone with a smidgen of
legal knowledge following along at the time, and for that it was obvious _to
him too_ in retrospect. Read his own analysis from Legal Affairs, "How I Lost
the Big One" [1]. His summary sentence says it all really: "When Eric Eldred's
crusade to save the public domain reached the Supreme Court, it needed the
help of a lawyer, not a scholar."
It's directly apropos here because yeah, Lessig is a good writer. And he can
definitely do the whole humble/gracious thing alright. But that's cold god
damned comfort to the hundreds of millions who lost out due to his total fuck
up. I have not forgotten nor forgiven it. I'm glad he's gone on to try to do
other good things, and people like him have a valuable role in debate. But the
real world of politics and power is _not_ a classroom debate, and people like
him do not belong anywhere near a position of importance that _requires_
direct interaction, understanding, and manipulation of the filthy realities
upon which good must build.
The email might have been "rude" (and I use scare quotes because I don't
consider privately using strong language in a bit of venting that you have the
self-control not to make public rude), but it was also strongly rooted in
fact. His presidential campaign was flat out disgusting, built on an utter lie
(I cannot believe Lessig of all people doesn't understand the separation of
powers) and flagrant irresponsibility over the lives of billions of people,
because that responsibility is part of what it means to be President of the
United States of America. He said he was running for real back then, he raised
money, and I think anyone who does that should be serious about going all the
way in case their super long shot somehow manages to catch a wave of cultural
zeitgeist and work against all odds. I would have been delighted if he or
anyone else had made a true comprehensive technology cored platform and ran
with it, treating the entire thing with the seriousness and practicality it
deserves, but he did not.
I will always admire many of his ideas and how he's helped a generation of
minds think in new ways. But when it comes to politics his approach can get
stuffed, and he clearly did not learn from one of the great blunder in
technological law precedent of the last few decades.
1\. [http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-
April-2004/story_le...](http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-
April-2004/story_lessig_marapr04.msp)
~~~
slantedview
Thanks for the history lesson. It was valuable, though from what I understand,
it's separate from the motivation for the Tanden/Podesta conversation on
display here.
~~~
xoa
And thank you in turn for replying. You and I both received a number of
downvotes, and outside of obvious spam and low effort posting it's
disappointing to not receive at least a quick reply as to why. FWIW, I
disagree with certain more specific parts of your post and that it's
> _separate from the motivation for the Tanden /Podesta conversation on
> display here_
as I think they're basically linked. If there's one thing Clinton embodies at
this point as much as any politician in modern history, it's an extreme wonky
attention to detail and pragmatism. Even more then disciplines like
engineering, I think it'd be fair to describe applied politics as "the art of
the possible". Lessig represents pretty much the polar opposite perspective,
beyond any of the boring modern mush polarization of "left" vs "right". He's
the Ivory Tower theorist/idealist, and _that_ is a philosophical divide that
has inspired fierce arguments and feelings for probably millennia.
Unfortunately he's done some real damage with that attitude and his
presidential campaign attempt indicates to me that whatever lesson he learned
from his last major work in national level applied politics hasn't stuck very
well (or that he learned the wrong lesson).
So assuming they encountered that sort of approach of his elsewhere, I think
it is a legitimate thing to be frustrated over. And internal _private_ venting
in an organization using blunter and more colorful language then would be
appropriate in public is _not_ something I consider to represent a problem in
and of itself. A lot of us have had times where we've cussed out some
contractor or partner company or for that matter government bureaucrats inside
our organizations out of feelings of immense frustration, sometimes fully
justified, sometimes not, and sometimes in the heat of a moment more due to
overall stress beyond any individual actor. I've encouraged team mates to do
that in fact, because I wanted them venting to _me_ , never ever ever to an
external party. It's human to get furious sometimes, but it's professional to
then put a lid on it. Often we've had response discussions and had an initial
meeting where angry stuff gets said and written, and then the rule is that
everyone sleeps on it. Re-reading the next day always results in major toning
down, sometimes seeing that in the wider scheme it's really not that big a
deal. But you wouldn't see that if you just grabbed the angry emails
themselves.
I guess, just, be careful about getting too absolutist in your reading of
modern times, where the public objectively has more access to information,
secure communications, and lower barriers to entry and participation then any
point in human history. I find naked assertions like "never in American
history has money had such a stranglehold on our elected officials" dubious
given "American history" includes times when merely traveling to the capital
might take months and represented significant outlay. Money has always played
a role. Are you really sure about the relative levels of power behemoths of
power like Standard Oil had vs now? Have you considered how much of an issue
"money" is vs the sorts of political favors and horse trading that happened
even 50-100 years ago? Is it really right to blame "money" as if voters
themselves are somehow getting out decided given their level of participation?
I'm very suspicious of talk of "blowing up the system" because historically
the result of blowing up systems tends to be uniformly bad, not good. Building
something good takes immense intelligence, work, consistent engagement, and
also a shitload of _luck_. A lot less, I'll note, then, say, actually just
getting voter turnout high, every two years, for decades in favor of a focused
positive agenda. In other words, if you can't pull that off in a democratic
system with very strong speech protections and rule of law, what exactly makes
you think you'd do better having "blown it up"? Populist appeals to quick
fixes should always be met with suspicion.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
DeepDream – a code example for visualizing Neural Networks - mxfh
http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2015/07/deepdream-code-example-for-visualizing.html
======
amingusamongus
When it comes to visualizing neural networks nothing beats emergent!
[http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent](http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A phonetic writing system based on cellular automata (2011) - breck
http://firstchurchofspacejesus.blogspot.com/2011/06/phonetic-writing-system-based-on.html
======
XaspR8d
Initial concerns:
\- Is it guaranteed that the ruleset can produce any sequence of collisions?
\- Seems like the vast majority of possible states would represent words with
concurrent phonemes, which is pretty much undefined behavior for the human
mouth. I guess you don't want the ideograms to be _too_ informationally-dense,
but that's a pretty sparse encoding.
\- Example table only does CV syllables and it's not immediately obvious to me
how to extend it to more syllable types. (especially crazy consonant-dense
clusters like "twelfths") You could have ∅ entries in each vector, but then
you start to lose some of the natural "timing" analogy if some collisions
don't represent syllables.
\- Not a lot of visual distinction between different words (e.g. "like" and
"site" are just 1 step vertically transposed from each other).
\- Each word has many many possible ideograms, not just because each collision
can be generated multiple ways, but also since you can create non-colliding
"noise" cells in unused areas.
I guess you could leverage the expressiveness somehow, like tending to use
certain collision types or cell states implies something about the context /
pragmatics.
I do really like the out-of-the-box thinking that inspired this, but I also
like seeing it taken to the rational extreme. How can you get the dynamic
nature of the cellular automata shine in your system? What distinguishes it
from using the same table, but just putting numbers in the cells for when each
combination occurs?
~~~
WorldMaker
Good list of concerns. I'd also add that the slower pace of writing system
changes versus direct phonetics is more often a feature rather than a bug. For
instance, despite some rather huge shifts in phonetics over centuries and
distributed across a large variety of accents, written English is relatively
stable, allowing people to read Middle English and sometimes even Old English
documents with relatively more ease than had they followed more strictly
phonetic renderings.
------
LyndsySimon
I’m trying hard to understand this, but am having trouble.
If someone wouldn’t mind drawing an example of this freehand, with a two-
syllable English word, I’d appreciate it.
------
taberiand
Maybe I'm missing some insight here, but this doesn't look useful at all.
It seems to just overcomplicate things.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Netflix's tail massage - westwardho
http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2009/09/netflixs_tail_m.php
======
patio11
There's another reason to do this, beyond Wolverine DVDs costing more than My
Little Pony DVDs: inventory utilization. The demand curve for a new release
goes something like this: BIG FREAKING SPIKE, two weeks pass, long-tail until
the sequel is released. To accommodate peak demand, Netflix would have to do
what Blockbuster does: order a metric truckload of Wolverine, then either let
it suck up shelf space or dispose of it somehow after the spike was over.
Alternatively, they could just not accommodate peak demand, and have users
perpetually ticked off that they can "never watch anything I want to watch".
I use one of the Japanese analogs to Netflix and this is the #1 complaint
everyone has with the service. You're lucky to be able to watch a new release
within a month of them getting it, which sort of defeats the purpose now
doesn't it. (Note that they offer plenty of UI features Netflix doesn't which
tend to exacerbate this, such as "Sort by Popularity", "Sort by Release Date",
and "Most Popular Recently Released Movies". They also have "Sort by
Availability", which is essentially "Show me popular new releases from 2
months ago where you now practically can't give away the DVDs.")
~~~
chancho
> To accommodate peak demand, Netflix would have to do what Blockbuster does:
> order a metric truckload of Wolverine, then either let it suck up shelf
> space or dispose of it somehow after the spike was over
Or just burn more copies. The cost of a disc is probably less than the
postage. But they'd have to get a license for that, which leads back to same
reason: studios charge more for popular movies. Renting good movies on Netflix
is hard for the same reason it's hard on iTunes, which has no inventory
problem.
~~~
jrockway
Netflix doesn't even need to burn discs, they already have the video streaming
infrastructure in place.
The studios don't want people to watch their movies. They want people to pay
for the discs.
------
tlb
And? Of course popular movies are in high demand, so the rental queue is
longer. They avoid showing you movies that would cause a long wait.
The movies on Netflix's list are probably better than the new releases. In
fact, the real manipulation is the idea of new releases, that half the demand
should be for this season's movies. The actual best movies of all time are
probably not on this week's best sellers list. It's a Hollywood marketing
artifact: because buzz causes a superlinear advertising conversion rate, it
works best to promote movies in short bursts. New releases also skew revenue
from rental stores towards Hollywood (since rental stores have to buy enough
for peak demand) so you can't blame Hollywood for doing it.
~~~
icefox
After hacking on the netflix contest it was fun to sign up for netflix and
give the recommendation system a try. After putting in several hundred movies
I now typically only choose recommendations that it thinks I would rate a 4 or
5. Most are good and rank about what they think I will. This includes plenty
of older movies including some silent films which I absolutely loved after
seeing them where before I would have never even considered watching them. On
the flip side the brand new movie of the month that I _must see_ and added to
the top of my que I end up ranking much lower on average. So I would very much
agree, on a given week I don't want to watch the new dvd/movie that just came
out as it probably isn't that good compared to the top 500 of the last 100
years which I have only started going through.
~~~
gjm11
_I now typically only choose recommendations that it thinks I would rate a 4
or 5._ : Probably a very sensible policy, and I bet a lot of other people do
the same. Unfortunately, this seems likely to cause some skew in the
recommendations since the recommendations engine (and the people working to
improve it) will seldom find out about any severe underpredictions it makes.
------
Eliezer
That makes 100,000 companies manipulating you to be more conformist and 1
company manipulating you to be less conformist.
------
ZeroGravitas
People really like to attack Chris Anderson and his lightweight business-IT
theories. I don't really understand why.
My best guess is that he's a pretty good self-promoter, and as with Apple,
people who can't promote themselves can get into the spotlight by attacking
someone who is already there.
~~~
jwesley
I think it's that his "lightweight business-IT theories" aren't recognized as
such.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Time-Based Currency - levinb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency
======
cheeky78
This is a great idea for people that don't have the money to pay their fair
share of taxes.
~~~
levinb
It seems like it would present a pathway to that sort of thing.
I found it interesting in that these ideas, like a literal 'proof of work',
have been around for a long time before our recent crypto era.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Windows as a service? Now, there’s an argument for Linux - ohjeez
http://computerworld.com/article/3189408/linux/windows-as-a-service-now-there-s-an-argument-for-linux.html?nsdr=true
======
peterwwillis
_> I’ve been happily using Linux desktops for decades. They work. In fact,
they work well._
I have been using Linux since... 2000? Jesus. I've probably spent an entire
year of my life just setting up a computer to make it usable. (If you think
that's hyperbole, consider that i've been a serial distro tester, a distro
maintainer, _and_ I used Gentoo) And guess what's new? It's possibly worse
today than it was then.
I've set up four new laptops in the past 4 months for Linux. One for my
girlfriend, and three for me, using the latest distro versions of both brand-
spanking-new dedicated to crappy hardware, and brand-spanking-new of the same
old OS i've used for a decade and a half. The following are _some_ of the
things i've done to get Linux to work on these four machines.
I have sent multiple patches to distribution maintainers due to their OS
poorly handling hardware that was supported in the kernel several years ago. I
have spent hours trying to understand and properly enable hybrid graphics. I
have fought with X and various apps and machine-specific drivers to support
keyboard media buttons. I have edited X configs to support right click on a
touchpad. I have read about 50 webpages just to understand which graphics or
wlan driver i'm supposed to use, as it has changed multiple times for the same
hardware.
I have upgraded and customized kernels, manually modified bootloader settings,
built initrds, changed EFI settings, and dug through internet posts to figure
out how to shrink a Windows partition down to a reasonable size for a dual-
boot install (tricker than it seems, these days). I have upgraded firmware
packages, enabled non-standard package repos, upgraded browsers by hand, and
installed dock plugins to supplant the functionality the keyboard media
buttons simply never performed correctly. I have written custom scripts to get
an sd card to mount on plug-in, because the ones that already exist wouldn't
work without running "lspci -v" first, each time.
All of this, and more, was necessary to get four laptops (that were released
between 2014 and 2016) to provide the basic functionality that Windows and Mac
users take for granted. Linux on the desktop? Maybe it works well, I don't
know, I don't own a desktop anymore. But it's definitely shit on a laptop.
~~~
hedora
Think that's bad? Try switching back to windows. I've found it is at least as
bad, except you can't edit driver source to work around brain damage. It is
like staring into the abyss. I have no idea how normal people use computers
anymore.
MacOS doesn't run any software I want (except office, which is terrible, since
I know how to use windows office, and I no longer care enough to learn new
menus / keyboard shortcuts). Some weeks it fails to resume 3-5 times, but it
generally limps along, I guess. This makes it about as reliable as an average
well-chosen linux laptop, at 2-3x the cost, and with an inferior userspace
(for me, YMMV).
I just want there to be a company that makes a working linux box that is only
as terrible as a MacBook. This is a disturbingly low bar. I guess the dell xps
developer edition exists. That might be a good bet (especially after Ubuntu
actually kills Unity).
~~~
nycticorax
> Think that's bad? Try switching back to windows. I've found it is at least
> as bad, except you can't edit driver source to work around brain damage. It
> is like staring into the abyss.
This does not match my experience _at all_. I've installed both Linux and
Windows on a lot of different hardware, and getting all the hardware to work
under Linux is always harder. Probably partly because the manufacturer took
care to make sure everything is workable under Windows, whereas Linux support
was usually not even on the radar. Sure, there are plenty of annoyances on
Windows, like how the Nvidia and Realtek driver installers also install a
bunch of other software that you probably mostly don't need, but at least the
hardware works once you're done with the driver install.
------
hb3b
And of course in typical Azure fashion this service requires an enterprise
agreement, can't be tested using free credits, and requires a 12 seat up-front
commitment. I'm interested to know if anyone knows of a cheaper service than
this or AWS Workspaces from a reputable provider.
~~~
DTE
You could try Paperspace (YCW15,
[https://www.paperspace.com](https://www.paperspace.com)) for hosted Windows
or Linux desktops. We run our own hardware to keep costs low, all instances
have a GPU, and we built a streaming algorithm that works extremely well. We
also have native apps for all desktop platforms and a killer web receiver as
well :)
[disclaimer: I'm one of the co-founders]
~~~
throwaway993324
Nice! Do you guys have any plans to support macOS in the future?
~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
It says here[1] they have a Mac app.
Or did you mean offering MacOS as a virtual desktop? I don't believe there is
a MacOS license that allows this.
1\. [https://www.paperspace.com/app](https://www.paperspace.com/app)
------
tracker1
If I could use VS in a reasonably sized VM over RDP for under, or around
$20/month, I would jump at it... however, generally speaking, less than 8GB
RAM is a non-starter, and much more than $20/month, I'll just keep windows on
my main desktop.
As it is, VS and a few utilities are all I need windows for. Even then, a good
build server might circumvent part of that. My own experience is really mixed
though.
~~~
hedora
How many hours would you actually be logged in? In an 8 hour work day, I'm
lucky to spend 5 actually typing code or waiting for a build. 5/24 * monthly
"always on" rate might make the constant factors work.
As an aside, I think the whole premise is flawed, assuming you are more
productive if you admin your own box. Spend $500-$1000 on something you can
shove under your desk, and rdp/ssh/vnc to that.
I think the price/perf on that still murders the cloud, though I don't really
care, since I like my privacy and haven't run the numbers recently.
~~~
candiodari
I don't understand this at all. Cloud is vastly more expensive. Everything.
From hard-drive space (compare buy + colocate with S3, even with raid-1) to
cpu.
And as for network traffic ... everything murders the cloud in efficiency.
~~~
tracker1
With cloud, I don't have to maintain the machine, or ask the IT guys at the
office to poke open holes to access that machine... I can also access the same
environment configured from work and home, and on the road, wherever... no
need to keep a windows machine/vm. I was pretty happy with my Chromebook,
except for "enterprise vpn" access not working, and wouldn't mind that
interface when traveling.
I know there are other trade-offs, but having a working environment counts for
a lot too.
~~~
candiodari
I get that this is a factor for huge companies. They can avoid their own
employees and instead try to navigate Amazon's, Google's or Microsoft's
service departments. And I get it : mostly a big step up. It's a sad
commentary on the quality of most organizations.
And especially in those cases, it's not worth it. A good IT department would
be far cheaper than paying for a high-traffic site with lots of backend
infrastructure like a bank would have.
~~~
tracker1
I can also work from anywhere I have access to a computer to remote in from.
No need to carry a work and personal device with me everywhere.
------
youdontknowtho
Im really not a fan of this guys writing. I admire his trolling abilities in
the Dvorak style, but he does write a lot of articles that are button pushers.
Side note...I started evaluating elementary OS last night.
~~~
astrodust
Dvorak is like the Ann Coulter of tech writing.
~~~
youdontknowtho
Yeah, it's pretty wretched. I do miss the old "byte magazine" though. It was
awesome.
~~~
astrodust
It is amusing how he went from being a die-hard PC curmudgeon that would troll
Mac fans to one that was a Mac enthusiast who trolled PC people. Anything for
the clicks!
------
throwaway2016a
VirtualBox (a free Virtual Machine) has RDP built in (you can enable it even
if the guest operating system doesn't support it because it is done on a VM
level).
I've never tried it but I wonder what performance you would see by trying to
do all your work over RDP to a VirtualBox machine sitting on a headless server
somewhere.
~~~
rchowe
I've had more luck (i.e. more usable performance) with the NoMachine remote
desktop product (basically X11 forwarding).
For a while I was also using GNU Screen over SSH too.
~~~
throwaway2048
setting up nomachine is a real hassle though, for some reason they feel it
nessisary to completely replicate the linux login infrastructure, aswell as
mantaining a whole heap of paralell dependencies (that needs separate
configuring, including a version of x11 from 2005 that causes some real
headaches) for no apparent reason.
Why cant it just be an x11 proxy rather than an x11 proxy plus an entire
authorization infrastructure?
~~~
kasabali
I guess you wanted to setup an enterprise authentication scheme?
For a simple desktop usage all I did was installing the deb package on the
server and it was ready to go. I just entered my ssh details on the client and
done, remote desktop at my fingertips. no manual setup, no external
authorization, no dependency hell.
------
stuartd
We'll just conveniently ignore the costs of retraining users and of replacing
any legacy systems they may use. Ooh look, shiny Linux!
~~~
ld00d
Windows updates broke your in-house mission critical application, but it
should run just fine on Linux. /s
~~~
harry8
When you rewrite your now hosed mission critical app you won't get screwed
again. Seems like a reasonable response to getting screwed to me to move to a
different supplier. But hey, making better friends with whatever supplier is
screwing you without your consent could work too..? Deciding they're really ok
and coming to terms with it as the natural order of things could work too..?
Protecting yourself and claiming autonomy isn't the only solution by any
means.
~~~
ThrowawayR2
Right, the update process for Linux distros never, ever breaks anything so
it's perfectly safe. /s
~~~
harry8
No, the advantage is that the update process is in your control not your
suppliers. Which was the whole point of the article if you'd care to read it.
You can disagree with the utility of having that control yourself vs having it
controlled by your supplier. If people here believe that utility to be not
worthwhile from their direct experience - that's something I'd really like to
hear because I'd likely learn something from it.
I'm not sure I learn much from your response.
~~~
candiodari
Windows and Microsoft in general are legendary for how good their backwards
compatibility is. There's this game from on windows 3.1 I like to play, and
I've just got the exe somewhere, "world empire 2", it just works. This is
surprisingly common.
A linux binary from 20 years ago is just not going to start. Even the basic
libc wouldn't be there.
~~~
harry8
Which implies why nobody ever need worry about windows upgrades being pushed
out and hosing their mission critical apps without their consent. This also
implies the article is full of shit. But I guess world empire 2 wasn't mission
critical for this guy..?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Your thoughts on Lisp, and how stable is Arc? - evanrmurphy
I was inspired by some of Paul Graham's essays to start exploring Lisp, and I'm so glad I have. Even after just walking through one tutorial, it seems clear to me that Lisp (and functional programming in general?) has big advantages over Python, Perl, C++ and Java - the languages I've been using. The most surprising thing so far: after getting used to the idea of S-expressions, <i>I feel more at home with Lisp than with traditional-syntax languages</i>.<p>I want to start using Lisp in my own projects whenever I can. I've started with Common Lisp because it seems like the incumbent dialect for all-purpose programming. Though really attracted to Arc, I've gathered it's still relatively unstable, is this accurate? (If yes, I may still get involved with the community development.) Any other comments for a new Lisp programmer or about Lisp in general?
======
brehaut
Have you checked out Clojure, the current Lisp de Jour? It brings with it bags
of advanced from all over the place and a healthy dollop of pragmatism.
The language is very young (2 years) but has a very active community.
~~~
hga
Here's an annotated list of Clojure introductory material and tutorials:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1033503>
~~~
evanrmurphy
Thank you both.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Losing out after winning the online auction. - olefoo
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/24/technology/24shortcuts.html
======
smokey_the_bear
In case people are wondering what happens when you buy stolen stuff on EBay:
Three weeks ago I bought a macbook pro on EBay, from a seller with 60 sales
and a 100% positive feedback, who claimed she'd owned the macbook for a year.
The macbook arrived on, with photoshop still running, a dvd in the drive, and
a different name on the user account than the sellers. I called Apple, and
they confirmed it was stolen by the serial number. So I got in touch with the
laptop's owner via some googling, and found out it had been stolen just two
weeks ago.
I filed a dispute with PayPal, and the seller immediately offered me a $100
rebate, which I declined. Then PayPal resolved the case, saying that I should
send the laptop back to the seller, and my money would be refunded, with a 10
day time limit. This seemed crazy, and then for 8 days they ignored my emails,
and to my first two phone calls just said they'd update the dispute with the
information I'd provided on the phone, but never did. Then I reached someone
reasonable at PayPal, and they credited me back the full amount and told me to
send the laptop to its owner.
So it worked out, but it was a huge pain, and for a long time I thought I was
going to have to choose between doing the right thing and getting my money
back.
Also, the owner of the laptop contacted his police department the day I
emailed him with the name, address and phone number of the seller. It took a
week to get a phone call with the detective, who then refsued to contact
PayPal. Now he's been waiting a week to get an address from the detective that
I can send the laptop to.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why can't we concentrate? - robg
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2009/04/29/rapt/print.html
======
RiderOfGiraffes
I had to keep dragging my attention back to the article and force myself to
finish it. Sometimes we are distracted because what we're supposed to be doing
is genuinely of little (and declining) interest.
Why force yourself to watch the film all the way through?
When I'm doing mathematics, or programming, or designing, or drawing, I have
no problem. When I'm reading tedious articles that provide little or no
insight, my attention wanders.
I wonder why?
~~~
csomar
This happen with me also, I don't read text, I just scan it quickly. If the
author didn't interest me from the starting that there's a result he wants to
get, then I'll leave (and I have done so in this one)
~~~
jlefo7p6
Limiting yourself to works with a narrative hook in the first few sentences is
a mistake.
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
Narrative hook is not the point. Having a sense of real contentand cogent
argument leading to a useful conclusion, is.
All too frequently missing.
~~~
imajes
without sounding pretentious - one of the biggest things I've found is that
today's authors suffer from a lack of eloquence. Communicating well is not
something that's simple to master, and few are truly good at it - in the same
way that computer science is a discipline, there are myriad courses in
university devoted to communication.
But we're trying to glean insight and information from blog posts and articles
often produced by time starved writers, first time bloggers or similar. The
art of communication is being lost in search for the sound bite, the skim
reader- the 20 second attention.
Perhaps we should all commit to reading a book a week- or how about writing a
short story: surely the better we are at communicating then the more enriched
we will be as a society?
~~~
randallsquared
It seems to me that eloquent writing actually makes it _harder_ to skim and
decide that it's worth reading. I used to read things because I liked how they
were written, but now that it's become clear to me that there's more than I
could ever hope to get to in years, I just want to get to the point and on to
the next thing; I find myself skimming even novels I'm reading while on public
transit, looking for the conclusion.
My point is just that great writing takes more attention and time, and so will
simply have a smaller audience. I wish writers would worry less about putting
together just the right turn of phrase and simply say what they want to say.
~~~
Confusion
_I find myself skimming even novels I'm reading while on public transit_
Well, I think this is all very personal and our experiences cannot be
generalized into a trend. In direct opposition to your experience, I've
recently started to actually _read_ books, instead of just skimming them for
the story. The balance was tipped by the first book of the Gormenghast trilogy
"Titus Groan" by Mervyn Peake... really wonderful prose.
------
csomar
The internet is the thing that distract me most, the problem is that you want
to always "keep on the loop".
I can only concentrate, sovle a problem or code when I disconnect, I have a
"fear" that every moment something is happening in Twitter, Gmail, Facebook
and that I need to be up-to-date.
The solution: I still thinking.....
~~~
svat
Donald Knuth says: [<http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html>]
> _Email is a wonderful thing for people whose role in life is to be on top of
> things. But not for me; my role is to be on the bottom of things. What I do
> takes long hours of studying and uninterruptible concentration. [...]_
And Richard Stallman doesn't use a web browser:
[<http://lwn.net/Articles/262570/>]
> _For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also
> have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a
> demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient
> use of my time, but it is slow in real time._
Closer to here, Paul Graham also recommends Disconnecting Distraction.
[<http://www.paulgraham.com/distraction.html>]
Maybe we should try learning from them.
~~~
mtoledo
I totally agree with their perspectives.. (maybe not going as far as not using
a web browser, but I'm sure concentration is not his only reason for this).
If you have a cellphone on which you received calls from people you follow on
twitter everytime they tweeted, and a cellphone on which you received calls
everytime you received an email, chances would be that you wouldn't be able to
do around 5 minutes of work without being interrupted by a phone call.
Therefore, if your activity required a longer period of concentration, chances
are you wouldn't be able to achieve/complete it.
Curiously, most people use the internet like they were those cellphones and
then complain about it. The beauty of the internet and the computer is that
you can bend it to your will, so you could turn it into a newspaper if you
wanted to pay the 1 day delay, for instance.
------
jrp
I'm skeptical about there actually being a decrease in attention. I hear this
kind of stuff about "the good old days" in quality X all the time and I
suspect people are just forgetting that they were also distracted back then.
------
jseliger
I wrote about a lot of the "concentration desert" articles in a post on
laptops, students, and distraction at [http://jseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-
students-distraction-...](http://jseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-
distraction-hardly-a-surprise) . Maybe the answer is disconnecting ourselves
from the Internet when we need to really, deeply work.
------
asciilifeform
This may be why:
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.emacs/msg/821a0f04bab918...](http://groups.google.com/group/comp.emacs/msg/821a0f04bab91864?dmode=source&output=gplain)
_"with a culture that is becoming more impatient and managers demanding ever
more blind _effort_ to maintain ever stricter bottom lines, it's sadly obvious
that we are moving into a way of working that is predominantly _conscious_,
for which I believe the human brain was never prepared."_
------
biohacker42
Concentrate? But this article: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=603314>
claims we should strive to have ADD!
I guess this means life ain't simple and no single strategy works 100% of the
time.
------
morbidkk
through "forced" repeated and rapid decision making we tend to pass on the
things too fast without much deliberation by considering oneself smart. But
stick to some things very well like music/twitter/ etc etc. Its not actually
question of concentration; we are trying to cope up with information overload
and sifting and filtering is required or at least such requirement is
perceived
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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The internals of testing in Rust in 2018 - djrenren
http://blog.jrenner.net/rust/testing/2018/07/19/test-in-2018.html
======
cornstalks
Looking at this, I can now see why a test function nested in another function
(see [0] and [1]) doesn’t work. I’ve tried dabbling with the Rust compiler to
see if I could help fix this, but it takes 30 minutes to compile rustc and I
couldn’t figure out how to reduce those compile times (each time I changed 1
line and wanted to test, I had to wait 30 minutes to build). How do people
work on rustc (or internal Rust libraries, like libsyntax) without waiting for
30 minute builds after every minor change?
[0]: [https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/36629](https://github.com/rust-
lang/rust/issues/36629)
[1]: [https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/612](https://github.com/rust-
lang/rfcs/issues/612)
~~~
djrenren
Hi author here, I won't lie, it's rough. I definitely built this whole website
and wrote the blog during my "compile breaks". On the bright side,
typechecking is super fast so I only really have to wait when making
algorithmic changes. Still, especially for anything that does code generation,
you'll be tweaking the algorithm a good deal.
~~~
hinkley
There's a cargo watch command that tries to do the same thing that other
languages with slow compilation or test frameworks do, and that's to run all
your tests the minute you save.
This narrows the time between when you have something to test and when you
remember to test it. It saves you wall clock time if not CPU time.
(I highly recommend combining watch with an editor or IDE that saves all
buffers at the same time, instead of one at a time).
~~~
djrenren
I don't believe this would work with the rustc compiler because, although it
uses Cargo to build, it has a special process that bootstraps the compiler by
building itself.
------
nixpulvis
The accessibility of testing code in Rust is one of the best parts of the
tooling IMO.
~~~
jordigh
I find this pretty nice in D. You add unittest{} blocks which you compile into
or out of your binary with a compiler flag. If you add some appropriately
formatted comments, ddoc also turns those into docstrings with the test as
example usage.
[https://dlang.org/spec/unittest.html](https://dlang.org/spec/unittest.html)
~~~
skolemtotem
Rust takes a similar approach. For unit tests, you use the #[cfg(test)]
attribute (/ pragma / directive) for conditional compilation, and #[test] to
mark a function that is a unit test, which is run whenever you run the `cargo
test` command. Also, any Rust code in Markdown fences in documentation is, by
default, also run by `cargo test`, which you can disable for an individual
code block by marking it as `rust,norun` instead of `rust`.
------
majewsky
Doc tests are their own thing, right? When I do `cargo test`, it looks like
it's doing two passes: one for unit tests (like described in the article), and
one for doc tests.
~~~
djrenren
Yeah, doc tests are part of rustdoc and they essentially strip out the
comments and generate test functions using libtest. I'm not very familiar with
the internals, but they're here: [https://github.com/rust-
lang/rust/blob/master/src/librustdoc...](https://github.com/rust-
lang/rust/blob/master/src/librustdoc/test.rs)
| {
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Expiring Developer Certificates Causing Some Mac Apps to Refuse to Launch - oneeyedpigeon
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/expiring-developer-certificates-causing-some-mac-apps-to-refuse-to-launch.2033527/
======
detaro
Woah, no timestamping for Mac app signatures?
| {
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Penny Saver - Garbage
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/438-Penny-Saver.html
======
furyg3
The euro has 8 coins (€2 €1 50c 20c 10c 5c 2c and 1c) and here in the
Netherlands, they've pretty much phased out the 1c and 2c coins.
All stores round up _or_ down the nearest five cents, evening the system out.
You're only charged the precise amount if you pay electronically. Banks and
some government transactions will result in a 1c or 2c coins, but it's pretty
rare for them to end up in your pocket.
I suppose you could game the system if you paid in cash when the rounding was
in your favor, and paid in debit when it wasn't. I doubt it would be worth the
effort.
------
corin_
To be completely honest, $10/year seems a perfectly reasonable price to avoid
the nuisance of having pennies in my pocket, or bothering to collect them all
up and cash in every six months.
~~~
dspillett
I chuck 1p, 2p and 5p coins in a pot at home rather than ever carrying them
around with me once they've got as far as home. There is a machine at my bank
that you can poor any coins into and it will count them into your account with
no charge. I do this once a year, it is only a ~10 minute detour on a trip
when I was walking into town for something else anyway, and it usually works
out at one 70cl bottle of Smirnoff Red plus a pound or so.
So I'm happy to keep the small change. I consider it to be a free drink or
few, in exchange for some minutes of my time.
There are similar machines in supermarkets that give you a voucher to use at
the till when paying for your shop, though they tend to charge (as much as
15%). They do usually have the option of giving the rest to charity though, if
you are so inclined (but you could do the same at the bank and donate without
some other entity lifting off up to 15%).
------
sambeau
I have a motto that I think is useful to all:
"Fuck the pennies - look after the pounds"
------
ry0ohki
"Right now, both the cent and nickle ($0.01 and $0.05 coins) cost more to make
than their face values. If they kill pennies today, then nickles are certain
to be next."
I guess the solution is to get away from physical currency altogether, with
the cheap point of entry for things like Square now I should be able to use
debit or my cell phone to pay for anything.
~~~
socially-distnt
right, then EVERY transaction will be traceable. No anonymity for anything you
buy.
------
lhnz
While I was a student I didn't use my spare change. I spent cash and sometimes
coins over £1. However I wasn't throwing it away, I was just emptying my
pockets into a box. As time went on my change accumulated massively. After a
couple of years I took it all to a bank: I had nearly £220.
That's not quite the same since it wasn't just pennies. But the point still
stands: (1) I never had pockets full of change, (2) after a while it was worth
me cashing in. This would be the case with even any high quantity of low value
coins. I know people say that you shouldn't pinch pennies, but it didn't waste
my time to do so. It's as easy as putting your keys down and in 5 years time
it will be worth something to you.
...tell your kid that they are his if he can count them for you?
------
masto
I don't _really_ care, but when I see these things I think about what would
happen if the situation were reversed: how would the store react if the total
came out to $19.38 and I decided I was only going to pay $19.35 because it's a
nice even number.
------
andrewaylett
In France, before the Euro, things would be priced at 99 centimes, but the
smallest coin was a 3 centime coin (worth about half a cent). This meant that
when paying cash, some form of rounding was often necessary to give the
correct change, but the rounding (in my (childhood) experience) would always
favour the customer.
I'm amazed that shops in the US can get away with rounding up.
------
endgame
Australia hasn't had coing smaller than 5c for years now. This rounding is
commonplace.
~~~
mrspeaker
And if the total is 0.02 then they round down. Hence the russian-roulette
style game of trying to put $20.02 worth of fuel in your car... careful...
careful!
------
Shenglong
In Canada (I'm following the trend!), I haven't made a paper/coin cash
transaction in over 3 months. I'm afraid future generations won't be able to
save pennies either way :(
------
mise
The flaw with coin saving is that, from what I'm told at least in my country,
that the banks charge a fee for processing coins.
~~~
batterseapower
CoinStar in the UK/USA does coin counting+cash out for free as long as you
turn coins into a gift certificate. Perhaps there is something similar where
you live, it may be an alternative to the bank?
~~~
astrodust
They also charge nearly 10% to process the coins. You may as well flick a
tenth of them into the wind.
~~~
bingaman
The processing fee is if you _don't_ get a gift certificate. I usually get an
Amazon gift certificate for 100% of my coins value.
------
ordinary
Remember: Bill Gates actually loses money if he takes the time to pick up a
$100 bill in the street.
~~~
peteretep
Only in the hugely unrealistic scenario where doing such a thing suddenly
pauses all of his cash-generating assets. Which it doesn't.
~~~
ordinary
One could argue that if he'd spent all his life picking up 100 dollar bills,
he wouldn't /have/ any other cash-generating assets.
Anyway, it was just an analogy: my point was that applying yourself to your
normal day-to-day activities on the job is probably more productive than
spending an hour a month scraping together pennies here and there. Even if we
aren't all Bill Gateses.
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Vivaldi now supports Linux running on ARM-based chips, including Raspberry Pi 3 - jonmccull
https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-for-raspberry-pi/
======
gadgetoid
I think Vivaldi miss the point in their blog post- the average western user
probably wont much care about Vivaldi on the Pi 3. It's cool, but it's not
groundbreaking. We have smartphones, tablets, laptops, etc. But the Pi has
traction in countries where alternative portals into the internet are few and
far between. It might not be markedly better than Chromium, or other available
browsers on the Pi, but another hat in the ring is never a bad thing.
| {
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Ask HN: How do you document your software? - jborden13
We are looking for a web-based solution for internal, and maybe external, documentation for our software. If you have any recommendations, we greatly appreciate it. TIA
======
zachlatta
At the company I work at we use HeaderDoc by Apple for our documentation (or
at least I do).
[https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Devel...](https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/HeaderDoc/intro/intro.html)
| {
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Ask HN: How to you learn anything new in Computer Science? - thehog
I am a undergraduate student and my courses don't include much of the modern technologies. I consider myself to have a solid base in CS and have tried many times to learn new things but I always get bored with the courses and start another topic leaving the previous incomplete. Please share your ways of learning.
======
PopeDotNinja
There's no replacement for having a good network of friends and mentors to
bounce questions and ideas off of. That makes all the difference for me.
Another thing is to disregard any statement that starts with "it's simple" or
"all you gotta do is" unless that statement is followed by a "here, let me
show you...". My main point is that the learning never stops, and you'll
benefit from accepting that you are responsible for teaching yourself. Being
fully dependent on a TA or professor to shove knowledge into your head is a
good formula for hating a class when you start to understand the teacher isn't
as good as teaching as you hoped they would be.
Lastly, learning is a lot harder if you aren't working on something fun, too.
For example, if you're taking a class on databases and it's about as
interesting as watching paint dry, maybe doing something more hands on
involving databases would be fun. For example, I enjoy doing things like
shaving microseconds of the amount of time it takes to query a table, and
pushing the boundaries of what is possible helps me understand a whole lot
about why that database was designed that way in the first place, which
compliments the course material very nicely.
------
chrisa
Two things I find very helpful:
1\. Hang out online where people talk about new technologies. For me, that's
HN, dev.to, and twitter (only works if you follow people doing cool things in
tech)
2\. Try out new technology by doing _small_, mostly pointless, but FUN little
projects. That way, you don't have time to "get bored", because they're just
little fun side projects! Also, you don't have to worry about them "scaling",
etc - because you can just tell yourself that it's just a silly little
project. But after several of these silly little projects - you'll be
surprised at how much you've learned, and actually accomplished!
~~~
sebst
This. I sometimes find it hard to find suitable side projects that are
\- small enough that you don't lose interest on the last mile
\- big enough that it gives you something at least mildly valueable
\- easy to entry and easy to work on occasionally. That last point kept me
away from some hardware projects because I felt I need to carry the hardware
wherever I go, just to do some experiments on the go.
All at the same time.
Any strategies in finding ideas?
~~~
username90
Have you tried making games? Can be as big or small as you want, can be as
simple or complicated as you want, in the end you made something which didn't
exist before and that is a satisfying feeling. It might not be a great career
choice, but games have many of the most interesting problems in computer
science.
------
readme
Is it really computer science you want to learn more of, or software
development? If it's the latter, you just learn by doing. Keep coding and do
research when you get stuck. Don't believe someone who says that something
cannot be done.
~~~
squirrelicus
So this. Go down rabbit holes when you get stuck. Understand your tools deeper
as time goes on. Learn by doing. You can't learn programming by reading.
Learning programming has more in common with plumbing and carpentry than
medicine and law in this regard.
------
19ylram49
For the most part, four things have done it for me:
1\. Reading academic papers.
2\. Being very hands-on; always implementing something, even it means trial
and error. (Re #1: A lot of times, I end up implementing ideas from
interesting papers that I’ve read.)
3\. Doing my best to be around smart folks and learn from them (i.e., going to
technical events, developing mentors, etc.).
4\. Never giving up! This seems cliché to say, but forcing that mindset on
myself has helped me tremendously for especially hard topics/domains (e.g.,
distributed systems). (Even if I have to reread a paper 10x before I fully
understand it, I’m willing to do that.)
~~~
throw7
How does one find out about academic papers? Is there some source that lists:
here are the academic papers this week?
~~~
deepakkarki
You can check out [https://blog.acolyer.org/](https://blog.acolyer.org/)
It's run by a guy called Adrian Colyer, he picks up a good research paper
every weekday and summarises it on the blog. He's very regular and covers
about 200 papers per year. Topics covered mainly revolve around data science
(ML, AI, etc) and data engineering (DBMS, distributed systems, etc), and to a
lesser extent general software engineering and systems stuff.
------
wheresvic3
This is what has helped me immensely: pick a service that you use and just
reimplement it for your personal use.
You'll have a clear idea of the requirements and can even open source it at
the end :)
Pick anything that would benefit frkm being self-hosted or something that you
currently pay for. E.g. dropbox, etc.
------
elamje
Hanging out on HN is a good start. If you spend time doing a lot of OOP at
school, try learning a Functional language. It’s a great paradigm that will
improve your general programming style.
Learn a language by making something interesting, i.e. web app, GUI, raspberry
pi project....there are millions of ideas and things to do out there, so pick
the most doable and exciting one to you so you can complete it, or at least
make usable!
------
Areading314
I highly recommend subscribing to ACM, it has great articles about cutting
edge tech, best practices, and industry trends.
------
jammygit
> tried many times to learn new things but I always get bored with the courses
> and start another topic leaving the previous incomplete.
There are a lot of tricks people might recommend, but learning to stick with
something that is boring is important. Track your progress visually in some
personally meaningful way
------
hnruss
I like to learn by doing. Either I’ll create something new or contribute to
open source. Creating something new is usually easier for me and leads to a
deeper understanding. The hard part is thinking of something that I want to
spend my time on.
------
p1esk
Can you give an example of which parts of CS are boring, and what kind of new
things you’re looking for?
------
peterprescott
Find a real person with a real problem and use algorithms to help them solve
it. [https://xkcd.com/1831/](https://xkcd.com/1831/)
| {
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Show HN: Fake weekend project: Update FAQ page via email - abeh
I'm participating in Lean Startup Machine weekend seminar, and they want you to fake the project to gauge interest. Does this work?
http://unbouncepages.com/faqmailer/
======
abeh
I tried to submit the url first, but it was considered spam - I guess using an
unbounce page for a non-existing service is kind of spammy, but this seems to
be considered the 'lean' way.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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The Second Quantum Revolution - jonbaer
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-second-quantum-revolution-1539881599
======
neonate
[http://archive.is/Lkwz3](http://archive.is/Lkwz3)
------
m-watson
I find WSJ's coverage of physics is generally bad. I don't have super concrete
examples, but most WSJ quantum articles I read jump right into misconceptions
or generalizations to the point of false statements, or are so vague and
unnecessary there are not false (or true) statements to be found because it
just uses the word quantum a lot and doesn't say anything.
~~~
neonate
The author won the Nobel Prize in physics.
~~~
chopin
For this, the article is pretty shallow. I noticed the author, dug into the
article and was disappointed.
~~~
neonate
That's a different issue though.
------
danbruc
While new applications are of course nice, I think many would get some real
peace of mind if we finally managed to understand quantum physics. At least
those that were never satisfied by »Shut up and calculate!« I wonder if this
would be a revolution or more or less inconsequential for all practical
purposes.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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VPN services blocked in Sri Lanka as information controls tighten - infodocket
https://netblocks.org/reports/vpn-services-blocked-in-sri-lanka-as-information-controls-tighten-RAe2blBg
======
abstractbarista
Looks like it's mostly DNS-based. Meh. But still, this underscores the
importance of operating your own VPN if you want to maintain comms through the
silly twitches of a gov't like this. The biggest VPN providers are the first
to be targeted. Even just having an SSH host outside the country will do fine.
On another note, I recently set up a Tor bridge with pluggable transports to
help those in choked areas. It was a fun homelab challenge, and a good way to
spread my privilege of having a free connection.
~~~
fb03
A VPS with a simple SSH server on a nonstandard port, maybe with some port
knocking if you think you might be scanned or targeted by accessing from the
offending country will do the trick just fine, keeping things reaaaally low
profile.
~~~
gruez
>simple SSH server on a nonstandard port, maybe with some port knocking if you
think you might be scanned or targeted by accessing from the offending country
will do the trick just fine, keeping things reaaaally low profile.
Sounds like security theater. Using port knocking isn't going to hide the fact
there's a SSH connection between you and some server. If anything, having a
non standard configuration (non standard port number or port knocking) makes
you more suspicious.
~~~
walrus01
I think you overestimate the desire, motivation and technical capability of
sri lankan ISPs to start doing netflow analysis and DPI on individual
subscribers' end user connections.
Unless you were to attract the attention of somebody in government, and they
forced an ISP to escalate an issue to the 3rd or 4th tier of network
engineering running the core of the bigger ASes there, they're not going to be
doing that. It's not the chinese GFW.
~~~
bArray
Not only this, but there's a massive difference between stopping people from
accessing the web via VPNs and stopping people from SSH'ing into their
servers. You block SSH access and you're probably going to take a financial
toll Country wide.
------
nstart
It's actually infuriating this ban. I'm from SL, currently on Nord VPN which
hasn't been blocked by 1 of the major ISPs. Both major ISPs are aggressively
blocking standard open vpn traffic however. I'm not entirely sure how since
this is not my knowledge domain but a default open vpn setup on digital ocean
(even on port 443) results in a timeout when contacting the server
I don't understand why one ISP is still allowing Nord and express vpn through.
If anyone is open to debug this and help create a work around I'd love help.
Feels like a good time to test things.
In the meantime people are using dubious vpn providers and are opening
themselves up as easy targets. I dread what would happen if a malicious party
created a vpn with malicious intent and then spent some bucks on targeted
advertising in SL on the app stores.
This block is such a shit move really. It's become the gov's default crisis
time response in the name of national security.
~~~
ArchD
OpenVPN, like many other VPN protocols, does not have censorship resistance as
part of its design goals. So, I'm guessing that its traffic patterns are quite
easy to detect.
You should have better luck with something like Shadowsocks, or even better,
Shadowsocks over a SSH tunnel. There are probably better and more potent
alternatives that I'm not familiar with. If you just want to do regular web
browsing, a simple thing to try is to just use "ssh -D" for a SOCKS5 proxy and
configure your browser to use the proxy.
Also, a possible first step in debugging is to run the same server setup in
the same country as the client and see whether it allows you to connect to a
domestic server. If it doesn't, it's probably a problem with your
client/server setup as the state's firewall probably doesn't need to block
domestic VPN connections.
~~~
nstart
Thanks. I'll be taking a look at tunelling soon. The material around it is
difficult to read and put together to be honest.
I'm right now using Nord via their ovpn files. Somehow it made its way through
one ISP ruleset.
For my digital ocean box, I asked someone else to use tunnelblick with the
ovpn file I provided them to see if it worked (they were in another country)
and it worked. This makes me believe it's most likely a country level issue.
In general though I'd like to learn about networking more thoroughly and set
up a censorship resistant option which I can help others to setup and share as
well later on. Any primers/pointers are appreciated too. I'll start with all
the things you mentioned though.
~~~
sjy
I suggest looking into WireGuard [1]. I found it easier to use than OpenVPN,
and I think it will displace it as the de facto standard when it eventually
gets merged into the Linux kernel. You'll have to use lower-level
configuration tools to get started with it, which I am finding helpful to
pursue the same goal of learning about networking more thoroughly.
[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17659983](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17659983)
~~~
pferde
While like Wireguard a lot, it won't displace Openvpn completely, for the
simple reason that it only works over UDP, and cannot work over TCP, unlike
Openvpn.
~~~
zx2c4
Transforming generic layer 3 datagrams into traffic that looks like something
else is the general domain of obfuscation. Making WireGuard traffic look like
TCP is one form of such obfuscation. Making it look like TLS or DNS or HTTP
are other forms. (Actually putting layer 3 traffic into framing inside a legit
TCP stream is inefficient and the wrong way to think about the problem
domain.) No promises, but I'm expecting some nice things to come in this
domain of generic obfuscation mechanisms to punch through various forms of
filtering.
~~~
pferde
Inefficient as it may be, it is something I simply need for my use case -
connecting home from a certain network which only allows outgoing connections
on a handful of TCP ports.
~~~
zx2c4
No. You need your traffic to look like TCP, for your particular network
filtering. But you do not need to achieve that by using the naive and
inefficient approach of, "stick the packets into a TCP stream prefixed by a
length field." Rather, there are more clever tricks for making your traffic
look like TCP, which generally fall into the same realm as other obfuscation
mechanisms.
------
mig39
They've also banned drones.
[https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/sri-lanka-
bans-d...](https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/sri-lanka-bans-drones-
unmanned-aircraft-after-bombings/article26940849.ece)
------
chelovek89
Nothing a personal shadowSOCKS server cant handle. It works with the great
firewall and theres no way Sri Lankas filter is stronger than Chinas.
~~~
abc-xyz
Speaking of shadowsocks, I really feel sorry for the author.. I believe his
final words were "I hope one day I'll live in a country where I have freedom
to write any code I like without fearing"
~~~
emilfihlman
Can you share more on this?
~~~
abc-xyz
This is the HN thread from the time:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10101469](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10101469)
His GitHub went quiet after that, but as wiremaus points out, he seems to be
alive and well based on his twitter posts.
------
ianlevesque
Legitimate question: what do they hope to achieve by this?
~~~
npsomaratna
Sri Lankan here.
Historically, the people here have engaged in "knee-jerk" violence following
an initial inflammatory incident; see:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_July](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_July)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_anti-
Muslim_riots_in_Sri_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_anti-
Muslim_riots_in_Sri_Lanka)
In the second incident listed above, social media was used both as a vector to
spread hate speech and misinformation, and also to help mobs organize.
Regarding the current social media block: at the start, I felt this to be
reasonable, as it made sense to slow the spread of misinformation/hate speech
for a couple of days, until people's emotions cool down. However, the blocks
still continue - and I see no clear justification for continuing them for so
long.
~~~
npsomaratna
Update: social media isn't blocked anymore. Six days in total - reasonable
enough, I think.
~~~
edejong
Any form of limiting speech is an attack on the principles of a healthy
nation. State-wide censorship is never reasonable.
------
jgowdy
Privacy idealist hat on.
I believe there's a lot of potential for CDNs and major sites to offer anti-
censorship pass through traffic with HTTP/2 via CONNECT. By having a
multiplexed protocol with multiple streams that spans "normal" traffic and
tunneled traffic, it should be harder to identify. This would allow major
sites or CDN providers to provide service to those people behind such bans and
possibly require governments to break a significant portion of the web in
order to institute those blocks. I think it's valuable to increase the damage
done by government blocking so we can ensure that mainstream persons are
sufficiently upset by this conduct. I also think CloudFlare and other major
CDN providers should be the ones to provide this type of VPN access either as
a product or as a special case offering for people in countries who censor the
web.
I realize there are many businesses who wouldn't damage their primary
offerings to provide such a secondary service. But it only takes one or two
companies to increase the collateral damage of the bans, and thus make them
much more costly for the governments imposing them.
~~~
DenseComet
[https://blog.cloudflare.com/1111-warp-better-
vpn/](https://blog.cloudflare.com/1111-warp-better-vpn/)
Cloudflare also built and opensourced a rust implementation of wireguard which
will likely back the service [0], but unfortunately, they didn't collaborate
with upstream.
[0]
[https://github.com/cloudflare/boringtun](https://github.com/cloudflare/boringtun)
~~~
jgowdy
Yeah, I'm specifically pointing to the idea of leveraging HTTP/2's multiplexed
streams to embed VPNs into the same connection as normal web traffic from
CDNs. Things like 1.1.1.1 Warp don't attempt to hide the fact that they're a
VPN and thus wouldn't really help with what I'm talking about.
------
Causality1
Blocks like this are why I always recommend friends overseas to not use a VPN
for which they've ever seen an advertisement. The small guys offer performance
that's just as good and the big guys having ten times the number of servers
doesn't help when their whole list can be blocked in an instant.
------
octosphere
You can route around VPN blocks by using something like Ghostbear which uses
_obfsroxy_ and is similar to Tor's meek pluggable transport
[https://help.tunnelbear.com/hc/en-
us/articles/360007243291-G...](https://help.tunnelbear.com/hc/en-
us/articles/360007243291-GhostBear-Fight-censorship-on-restrictive-networks)
------
deependra
[http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=Public_Requested_to_Iden...](http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=Public_Requested_to_Identify_Terrorist_Suspects_20190426_02)
------
andreimiulescu
A VPN service that cannot be blocked:
[https://www.tunnelhero.com](https://www.tunnelhero.com) been using this guys
in China l, turkey and UAE works like a charm.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Phwned - ashitlerferad
http://phwned.com/
======
throwaway719
Regarding "CVE-MITRE-SAYS-NO" \- this seem to be a known recent problem:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11768516](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11768516)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
IRC and Emacs all the things - preek
https://200ok.ch/posts/2019-11-01_irc_and_emacs_all_the_things.html
======
iLemming
> Not having a general text editor at your disposal for when you have to
> input/manage loads of text is like being a carpenter and only having a
> hammer in the toolbox.
Once I learned Emacs to the sufficient level, I felt that. Today, I can't even
imagine typing any text in anything else but Emacs. Having all the tools you
need at your disposal - spellchecking, thesaurus, dictionary, word lookup,
translation, etc., feels extremely empowering.
My work machine is a Mac. I have written this¹, mainly to integrate with
Emacs. Whenever I need to type anything longer than four words, in any
program, I use that. The idea is simple - to copy existing text, call
emacsclient, it invokes a function that opens a buffer and pastes the text
into it. Then you edit the text in Emacs, press dedicated key-sequence - it
grabs the text, switches back to the program, pastes the text back in there.
It works surprisingly well. I can for example, open Browser Dev Tools; invoke
Emacs; switch to js-mode, have all the bells and whistles: syntax-
highlighting, autocomplete, etc.; write some javascript; finish editing and it
would paste the code back into the Dev Tools console.
Sometimes I use Linux with EXWM. When I first discovered it, I got very
excited. Not because now I could manage all windows through Emacs, but mostly
because EXWM can "translate" and "simulate" the keys. So, for example, you can
use same key-sequences that you use on Mac, but they'd translate into Linux
native keys. There's no "context switching", you don't need to re-adapt to the
keys all the time. It took me a few hours to learn EXWM and configure it, next
day I wrote exwm-edit² Emacs package.
Being able to write any kind of text in your favorite editor is truly
liberating. I highly recommend trying. Be warned though - it's impossible to
live without that later. The only reason I don't much use Windows these days -
because I haven't yet figured out the way of doing this in Windows. Someday I
will.
\---
¹ [https://github.com/agzam/spacehammer](https://github.com/agzam/spacehammer)
² [https://github.com/agzam/exwm-edit](https://github.com/agzam/exwm-edit)
~~~
happyrock
I gave Emacs another good-faith effort recently, via Spacemacs. I really
bought into it, wanted to make it work, and forced myself to use it for all
text editing. But despite every intention of working through all of the quirks
and oddities and endless customization, and with the stated goal of reaching
Emacs enlightenment, I gave up after a month or so, deleted it from my machine
and resolved never to try again.
It feels silly saying this about a piece of time-tested software that many
people love, but as someone who believes in the _idea_ of Emacs, in my opinion
the reality of Emacs is that it just doesn't work very well. It's slow, it's
clunky, it gets in your way at every opportunity, it's documented in a very
puzzling style, the add-on packages often interfere with each other in
inscrutable ways, and the user experience is on the whole, terrible.
At least that's how I felt coming back to Emacs after using modern IDEs the
past few years.
~~~
giggles_giggles
I hate to tell you this, but it's not Emacs that's slow and clunky, it's
Spacemacs. I dumped Spacemacs and spent a couple days building a new config
with everything I used from Spacemacs and it is a good 10x faster.
It shouldn't be surprising, seeing as Spacemacs development ground to a
complete halt (no new releases) something like two years ago.
Spacemacs is a neat demo of what is possible with Emacs but it adds a TON of
complexity and bloat. I found it much harder to troubleshoot and it didn't
keep up with the rest of the ecosystem, and it's the rest of the ecosystem
(and Emacs Lisp) that make Emacs so special.
~~~
dilap
As a devoted emacs addict, I can attest that plan old emacs is also pretty
slow and clunky, though I could easily believe spacemacs is even worse!
My dream editor would combine the flexibility of emacs w/ the speed and
quality of sublime.
~~~
iLemming
Quality? I think Emacs (for what it does) is a product of superb quality. I
just checked - I pull over 400 packages (including built-ins). Can you imagine
Sublime, VSCode, or Atom with 400 plugins installed? I don't even know if you
can find that many useful plugins for them, but even if you do, I think at
best it would just hang them indefinitely.
And these are not 400 "dead-weight," useless packages. These are real programs
that very often tightly integrate with each other. Some of them like Magit and
Org-mode are quite serious products by themselves.
Sure, there are decades-old issues in Emacs, and they are slowly, steadily
being worked on. The problem with long lines is getting fixed. JSON
performance got improved with jansson. Elisp native - some people reported a
300% speed boost. Rendering improvements with Cairo - no longer experimental;
Native line numbers are in the stable version of Emacs; People today
discussing using Tree-sitter for parsing, which would significantly improve
syntax-highlighting. And many other things are slowly being improved.
Things move slowly in the Emacs world. We have many smart people, but we don't
have enough of them to contribute and move things fast.
~~~
dilap
No argument that emacs is getting better.
But I'm not sure it will ever be what I would consider high-quality!
I think it's just the nature of a huge system implemented (mostly) in a
dynamically typed, dynamically scoped (!) (though, happily, more and more less
and less) language to be partly broken all of the time.
And, to be fair, most of the bugginess is not emacs per-se, but in the various
packages and their interactions -- but what is emacs, really, other than a
platform to run the packages?
So here's some random problems I have (I have a long list, and occasionally I
try to fix one; the list is growing):
\- After I run a python shell for a while, bash shells stop asynchronously
showing command output; the shell just hangs until the command completes.
\- There's an awesome mode iedit that lets you edit all instances of a symbol.
Sometimes, for certain sequences of characters, instead of correctly
performing the edit, it inserts gibberish.
\- There's an awesome mode grep-ed that let's you edit grep(†) results inline;
very convenient. Except for when it very rarely, randomly decides to garbles
the files.
(† Or even better ripgrep -- random shout out to truly fantastic piece of
software!)
\- The afore-mentioned iedit mode doesn't work w/ the delete-horizontal-space
editing command. (All other commands, yes, just not that one, for some
reason.)
\- There is a mode dumb-jump that jumps to symbols. There is an emacs feature
to soft-wrap lines. Dump-jump doesn't work when jumping to a symbol that's on
a wrapped line.
\- To work around a rare but tricky race condition, emacs shell mode at some
point added a built-in 1-second startup delay. I lived w/ annoyingly slow
shell starts for _months_ before I finally tracked it down, only to find out
it was on-purpose terrible kludge!
\- The soft-line wrapping mode (visual-line-mode) goes crazy if the line gets
really long.
&c &c &c.
So while I spend most my time in emacs and have great affection for it, I
definitely don't feel like it's a high-quality experience. I'm constantly
running into little bugs.
To be fair, most of my arguments are with 3rd-party packages and their
interactions, not emacs per-se. But emacs w/o 3rd party packages would be like
a non-fat decaf latte: what's the point?
(P.S. Very excited about the possibility of fixed long lines & tree-sitting
parsers!)
~~~
useragent86
> I think it's just the nature of a huge system implemented (mostly) in a
> dynamically typed, dynamically scoped (!) (though, happily, more and more
> less and less) language to be partly broken all of the time.
To be clear, Elisp has had lexical-binding for about 8 years now.
> After I run a python shell for a while, bash shells stop asynchronously
> showing command output; the shell just hangs until the command completes.
That's very strange, indeed. See if you can reproduce with emacs -q.
> There's an awesome mode iedit that lets you edit all instances of a symbol.
> Sometimes, for certain sequences of characters, instead of correctly
> performing the edit, it inserts gibberish.
iedit is great. I've never seen it insert gibberish or misbehave in any way.
> There's an awesome mode grep-ed that let's you edit grep(†) results inline;
> very convenient. Except for when it very rarely, randomly decides to garbles
> the files.
Haven't heard of grep-ed. Maybe you're thinking of wgrep? See also occur,
which can also perform edits. In fact, there are probably at least 5-10
packages which implement such functionality, some of which are built-in.
> The afore-mentioned iedit mode doesn't work w/ the delete-horizontal-space
> editing command. (All other commands, yes, just not that one, for some
> reason.)
It would be helpful to report that issue so it could be fixed.
> There is a mode dumb-jump that jumps to symbols. There is an emacs feature
> to soft-wrap lines. Dump-jump doesn't work when jumping to a symbol that's
> on a wrapped line.
That's unlikely. If that ever were the case, it's probably fixed by now,
because dumb-jump is under active development, very popular, and widely
recommended, and that would be a very basic problem. Besides, I can't imagine
how being on a wrapped line would affect it, because Emacs commands that read
from the buffer aren't affected by visual-line-mode.
> To work around a rare but tricky race condition, emacs shell mode at some
> point added a built-in 1-second startup delay. I lived w/ annoyingly slow
> shell starts for months before I finally tracked it down, only to find out
> it was on-purpose terrible kludge!
Try ansi-term instead of shell.
> The soft-line wrapping mode (visual-line-mode) goes crazy if the line gets
> really long.
Extremely long lines have been a problem in Emacs for a long time, however
Emacs 27 includes so-long-mode, which mitigates it.
~~~
dilap
Thanks, I do appreciate the tips.
Like I mentioned, these are just a couple problems from a longer list.
Occasionally, I pick one and (try) to solve it. If I tried to solve them all,
I wouldn't have much time left for anything else. :-)
My more general point is Emacs is pretty janky.
I also don't think it's _inevitable_ \-- it's possible to make something that
offers the awesome flexibility of emacs, but w/o the quality issues. Who
knows, maybe Emacs itself will eventually evolve in this direction.
(Re a couple of your specific points:
\- I just checked, and 36% of the files in my site-lisp directory are using
lexical scoping.
\- Dynamic scoping can be handy! Here's (incredibly nasty) my fix for the
hard-coded 1-second delay in shell mode:
(flet ((sleep-for (&rest args) ())) ;; redefine sleep-for since shell calls it on purpose, guaranteeing a 1s startup time...
The fact that such a fix is needed, on the one hand, and that such a fix is
possible, on the other, are emblematic of the both cultural and technical
reasons that emacs is not more robust.)
~~~
useragent86
> Like I mentioned, these are just a couple problems from a longer list.
> Occasionally, I pick one and (try) to solve it. If I tried to solve them
> all, I wouldn't have much time left for anything else. :-)
> My more general point is Emacs is pretty janky.
Well, for various definitions of "janky," perhaps. But I think your problems
are mainly from third-party packages and your init file, not from Emacs
itself. It's very common for Emacs to get blamed for badly written packages
and code copied from random places. Such problems usually disappear by running
`emacs -q`.
> I just checked, and 36% of the files in my site-lisp directory are using
> lexical scoping.
Maybe you meant the `lisp` directory? `site-lisp` is for site-local files,
e.g. ones provided by the distro packagers and sysadmins, not by Emacs itself.
I have a single file in my /usr/share/emacs/26.3/site-lisp directory,
`subdirs.el`, which contains, in its entirety:
(if (fboundp 'normal-top-level-add-subdirs-to-load-path)
(normal-top-level-add-subdirs-to-load-path))
In contrast, /usr/share/emacs/26.3/lisp contains 258 .el.gz files, from Emacs
itself.
About the same percentage as you mentioned use lexical-binding, yes. Patches
welcome, I'm sure, although I wouldn't expect a noticeable performance
improvement by changing them to do so.
> Dynamic scoping can be handy! Here's (incredibly nasty) my fix for the hard-
> coded 1-second delay in shell mode:
That is pretty nasty. ;) There are two better solutions:
1\. Use ansi-term instead of shell. ansi-term is the better shell package
included in Emacs. AFAIK there's no reason to use shell over ansi-term. Just
call `M-x ansi-term RET` instead.
2\. Generally, use advice rather than `flet`. But I can't recommend advising
`sleep-for`, as that would be likely to cause problems.
And FYI (you may already know, but in case not), with lexical-binding, you
would have to use either advice or `letf` with `symbol-function` to override
functions like that.
> The fact that such a fix is needed, on the one hand, and that such a fix is
> possible, on the other, are emblematic of the both cultural and technical
> reasons that emacs is not more robust.)
FWIW, there is no call to `sleep-for` in my Emacs 26.3's `shell.el` file. I
suspect you have a configuration problem, or perhaps you installed an Emacs
that was packaged poorly, with ill-advised patches applied.
~~~
dilap
On the one hand, you're absolutely correct that most of my problems are in 3rd
party packages, my own customizations (perhaps), and their interactions.
But on the other hand, emacs w/o 3rd party packages and personal
customizations isn't really Emacs!
So I think it's fair to critique the quality of the software you end up with
in practice, as a normal user of Emacs. Perhaps I should say the "Emacs
ecosystem" tends towards jankiness, rather than Emacs itself, per se.
> site-lisp vs lisp
I meant my personal collection of 3rd party packages I have installed, which
for some reason I call site-lisp, perhaps an abuse of the term!
My thinking was recent 3rd-party code wold be a better pulse-check of current
practice than emacs itself, which I'd expect to have a lot of older code
predating lexical scope. Interesting that they're about the same though.
> FWIW, there is no call to `sleep-for` in my Emacs 26.3's `shell.el` file
It turns out it's in comint.el, in (comint-exec). Here's the code:
;; Feed it the startfile.
(cond (startfile
;;This is guaranteed to wait long enough
;;but has bad results if the comint does not prompt at all
;; (while (= size (buffer-size))
;; (sleep-for 1))
;;I hope 1 second is enough!
(sleep-for 1)
...
~~~
useragent86
> But on the other hand, emacs w/o 3rd party packages and personal
> customizations isn't really Emacs!
Certainly it is! There are many users who have used Emacs for decades who have
only a handful of lines in their init files and no third-party packages.
> So I think it's fair to critique the quality of the software you end up with
> in practice, as a normal user of Emacs. Perhaps I should say the "Emacs
> ecosystem" tends towards jankiness, rather than Emacs itself, per se.
Yes, I think you should say that instead; that would be more fair and
accurate.
Elisp is a forgiving language, and Emacs is a forgiving environment, so low-
quality code is not always "punished" by failing to compile or run. So, as
with any software you would run on your computer, you should use discretion.
The good news is that the quality of software in the Emacs ecosystem is
steadily improving. MELPA is upholding higher standards for packages, and more
tools are being made to catch poor-quality code and encourage best practices.
> I meant my personal collection of 3rd party packages I have installed, which
> for some reason I call site-lisp, perhaps an abuse of the term!
Ah, I see. Not necessarily an abuse, if you are your own sysadmin, I guess. :)
> It turns out it's in comint.el, in (comint-exec).
Thanks, that's interesting. I guess there must be some interesting discussion
on emacs-devel about that from years past. I wonder if that could be improved.
~~~
dilap
> Certainly it is! There are many users who have used Emacs for decades who
> have only a handful of lines in their init files and no third-party
> packages.
...
> Yes, I think you should say that instead; that would be more fair and
> accurate.
Makes sense, & will do in the future!
> The good news is that the quality of software in the Emacs ecosystem is
> steadily improving. MELPA is upholding higher standards for packages, and
> more tools are being made to catch poor-quality code and encourage best
> practices.
Good to hear. :-)
------
mxuribe
This is brilliant! Not so much for use of emacs or libpurple or bitlebee
specifically for that matter (which are all fine)...Rather, what i find to be
the coolest is the whole... "I'm gonna use __my preferred __text editor to
interact with the world " approach! Some might say that this reduces outside
systems into nothing more than an API-sort of layer, but honestly, I really
like that; it helps with learning curves, general adoption, etc. Kudos!
~~~
preek
Op here. First, let me say: Thank you for the kind words
You're spot on!
I'm using Emacs for todos, project management, meeting minutes, quotes,
invoices, accounting, mails, chat, programming, configuration management,
slides, documentation and so much more. As long as the task is primarily based
around consuming or producing text, it's incredible how much more performance
a solid foundation yields.
In case anyone is curious, here's my config:
[https://github.com/munen/emacs.d/](https://github.com/munen/emacs.d/)
~~~
nemosaltat
I initially read this as the Spanish word “todos,” which translates as
“everything.” The rest of the comment goes on to support my initial
interpretation. I love it when things work out that way.
------
dfboyd
Slack is working hard to prevent this kind of interoperability; the incentive
for them is to push ahead on features, and being abstract-able behind bitlbee
or libpurple impairs that. They have deprecated the API token (called a
"Legacy Token" on their site) that bitlbee uses, and there's a sunset date of
May 5 2020.
~~~
tyrust
They used to run an IRC relay, too, but got rid of it years ago.
~~~
theelous3
Yeah, that was a frustrating day for me. I went from running all of my IM
through my IRC client, to being forced in to a combination of my IRC client
and the slack desktop native app, to eventually giving up on slack altogether
as it was heavy and finicky, providing nothing more (for me) than any simple
IM client.
I firmly believe we're just in a bad place on the whole in terms of IM/voip
systems for personal use and org use. Nothing is really good enough. The only
ones that live up to expectations are mumble and IRC - the absolute no-
nonsense of them leaves expectations low and exceeds them. Had slack taken a
more open route and stopped being so org focused it had the potential to do
really well (in the "good ecosystem" sense, not in the financial sense as
clearly they're doing fine.)
Nothing bridges the gap between personal social use, informal org use (gaming,
loose projects), and actual org use. How is it that mumble and teamspeak etc.
are still far superior voip clients to literally all other offerings,
including the well funded and supposedly mature discord which should be
excelling here. Only thing mumble/ts can't do is replace voip telco systems,
which in fairness nothing else does either.
Slack can't do voip for shit, discord can't even do notifications, irc can
only manage offline message history if you're highly tech savvy or pay for it,
whatsapp requires a phone with an active connecion and is clumbsy for
ephemeral groups (telegram is fairly similar), gitter doesn't even come in to
the picture, matrix has the shittiest public servers in the history of
technology, xmpp is esoteric gobbeldygook.
The whole space is a mess.
------
Naac
For a more feature-full emacs IRC experience, I would recommend Circe[0]. It
even supports showing images inline like slack.
If IRC in emacs is not your cup of tea, I would recommend the web client/web
server The Lounge[1], which as far as I'm concerned gives people everything
they want out of slack, in IRC, but doesn't lock you down to a proprietary
protocol.
[0]
[https://github.com/jorgenschaefer/circe](https://github.com/jorgenschaefer/circe)
[1]
[https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge](https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge)
~~~
preek
Op here.
Thanks for linking to Circe. I didn't know about that and will happily check
it out. thelounge also does look really nice!
Having said that, the IRC client ERC which I'm using works well with regards
to inline images. Here's my config for that:
[https://github.com/munen/emacs.d/#irc](https://github.com/munen/emacs.d/#irc)
------
Arathorn
could also Matrix and Emacs all the things, just sayin’
[https://github.com/alphapapa/matrix-
client.el](https://github.com/alphapapa/matrix-client.el) :)
~~~
mxuribe
My prediction is that at some point in the future, those folks who have
historically loved IRC (and there's nothing wrong with that!), will eventually
begin to prefer matrix as opposed to, say, slack, mattermost, etc. Not
necessarily for tech superiority, but for what I'll call the coziness factor;
they'll just feel cozy using some matrix client, as they felt comfy using an
ol' irc client. (Yes, yes, i know there are numerous existing irc-bridging
apps/services natively supported by matrix protocol. ;-)
Disclosure: I used to love irc in the 90s, then stopped using it in the 2000s
(aughts?), and now am a superfan of matrix.
~~~
rabidrat
I don't care what chat network I use, as long as I can use weechat.
------
defanor
I'm using a similar setup and for similar reasons, particularly for XMPP, but
finding it hard to recommend to others because of the awkward bits involved
(and because not everyone uses/prefers Emacs, of course). It's mostly okay for
basic textual messages over a stable connection, though even then an IRC
client is likely to split outgoing messages assuming an IRC message length
limit. But when it comes to anything more advanced (e.g., file transfer), less
visible (e.g., proper connection closing), or requiring a more advanced UI, it
leads to compromises at multiple stages: similarly to just bridging protocols
in general, but with addition of bitlbee/libpurple API restrictions.
Sometimes I wonder whether the situation would be better with specialized CLI
IM clients running inside Emacs's shell mode: it works well for telnet MUDs,
at least.
------
u801e
The contrast level they used for the text in the article makes it too
difficult to read.
~~~
kencausey
Surely everyone knows about Reader mode by now? More seriously, is something
like Firefox's Reader mode available as a plugin to Safari? I can confirm that
it is for Chrome.
~~~
hibbelig
Safari has it built in.
~~~
kencausey
OK, thanks. I am a bit of a broken record in regards to recommending the use
of Reader mode. This is more fuel to my madness.
------
zzo38computer
I might recommend that people who have set up Discord or Slack or Matrix or
whatever should set up their own IRC server to bridge with it, rather than the
end user setting up their own.
------
maurits
Every 6 months or so I do the vim<->sublime<->emacs dance. I really want to
like emacs and really believe in its central tenants.
Its not that it is hard, but I just can't get over the fact that it seems to
not work very well. Buggy, slow, bewildering documentation, fresh installs
that are broken, it all wears me down.
~~~
iLemming
It certainly may appear to be broken all the time. But that's the price you
pay for using the vast Emacs ecosystem. Emacs over the decades has accumulated
an incredible amount of things - built-in and third-party packages, different
ways to work on various platforms, protocols, screen-sizes, languages, etc.
There are tons of code written in Emacs-lisp on Github alone. None of them,
not a single developer contributed to Emacs ecosystem, has ever gotten paid,
except for a few, small, voluntary donations. Almost all of that work is done
by individual contributors. If you think about it, Emacs, to a certain degree,
defies any logic - the way how it's concocted shouldn't work at all. Yet, it
does, and some features of it done is a particular, astonishingly clever way,
that no other IDE or editor has ever successfully replicated them.
To become a serious Emacs user, one has to either choose to be austere and
handpick the packages to use or has to become really good in debugging the
problems when they arise. Learn Emacs lisp, learn how to use built-in
profiler, "toggle-debug-on" functions, learn how to investigate slow/failing
startup, how Emacs loads packages, and you can update things with no fear.
Yes, sometimes things break (show me a software product with no bugs), but for
me, it never takes longer than a few minutes to either find a fix or a
workaround. From my perspective - Emacs is very stable.
------
kleiba
Good ol' C-x M-c M-butterfly...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
When to fire your co-founders - ciscoriordan
http://venturehacks.com/articles/fire-co-founders?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+venturehacks+%28Venture+Hacks%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
======
brlewis
Dup: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1084471>
Remove feedburner parameters from the URL to help HN detect duplicates
automatically.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Command-And-Control Mindset Is Killing Companies - kiyanwang
http://corporate-rebels.com/mindset/
======
leroy_masochist
I don't think the authors understand the term "command and control" as it is
traditionally used. I'd infer from this article that they believe it means,
"provide overly detailed instructions, then micromanage". In fact it's a
military term of art describing how to manage large teams in a chaotic
environment in which leaders never have all the information they'd like (e.g.,
combat).
The "command" part is leaders telling the people who work for them what end
state they need them to achieve -- not only at the outset of the mission, but
periodically throughout operations as the situation changes.
The "control" part is subordinate units/leaders providing real-time feedback.
This might be something like, "we are carrying out the mission as planned" or
it might be, "hey you told me to stay on the north side of the river but I
need to cross it to accomplish the mission"; importantly, deviation from
coordinating instructions in accomplishing the mission is a key feature of the
mission orders-based warfighting doctrine currently in place in most major
militaries.
In the words of US doctrine (which uses the common abbreviation for command
and control): > C2 is not a one-way, top-down process that imposes control on
subordinates. C2 is multidirectional, with feedback influencing commanders
from below, from above, and laterally.[0]
0:
[http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/f...](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/6-0/chap1.htm)
------
shouldbworking
This sounds great and all, but I've seen corporate rebels and how often they
get fired. The most dangerous thing you can do at most companies is to
disagree with your boss and be right. I was a rebel myself until I realized
the risks.
The safe path to promotion is sucking up to the level of management right
above your manager. Always show up early, look nice and busy, and make sure
you're always presenting at meetings.
The true rebels will be seen contracting or running their own businesses. Or
defeated and working in the dark corners of the corporate world just waiting
for the day they can escape, real or imagined.
~~~
iamacynic
oftentimes in companies, a consultant will be brought in to create controlled
rebellion - a consultant is basically a mercenary who will operate at the
direction of one of the bosses inside the company, and the results of the
consulting or research/development efforts can be discussed in terms of
political strategy as well as actual results.
of course, the trade-off for being a consultant is that you're very well
compensated but can be fired for any reason, or no reason at all, without any
of the legal protections afforded an employee. this is a business model for
management consulting firms but i've seen plenty of smaller outfits or
individuals do this as well.
------
dasil003
Being a startup guy I come from the opposite side: one of the biggest
challenges I've faced in growing startups is alignment. When you're 5 people
in a room you can just kind of shout out what you're doing and everything is
cool. When you get to 50 this leads to a lot of redundant effort and toe-
stepping. If the culture is not evolved by 500 there's very little strategic
direction at all.
I agree about the engagement part, but given that I've always worked in places
where people were highly engaged, the next challenge is how to direct that
engagement towards a common vision and purpose with efficient execution.
~~~
fiatjaf
Why do you have to go past the 50? Or even past the 5 people in the room?
Isn't it just better to keep companies small? Maybe have/work on multiple
companies, have companies interact better with other ones so they can
accomplish more, but keep them smaller.
~~~
jasode
_> Maybe have/work on multiple companies, have companies interact better with
other ones so they can accomplish more,_
Ronald Coase[1] explains why an integrated large company can be more
productive and efficient than interacting individuals (or interacting small
companies). Basically, internal transactions (departments) cost less than
external transactions (contracts).
E.g. there is no way for Apple to sell an iPhone for $500 or Amazon AWS to
offer EC2 compute for 1 penny per hour if those 100,000+ employees were split
up into thousands of smaller 5-person companies.
It seems reasonable that many entrepreneurs have ideas that require more than
5 people to execute.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm)
~~~
bediger4000
_Basically, internal transactions (departments) cost less than external
transactions (contracts)._
It occurs to me that if we believe this, the USA as a country could make our
entire economy more productive by making contracts less expensive. 5 seconds
thought leads me to believe that "less expensive" might have a number of
things involved, from simpler legal language that doesn't require a lawyer to
understand, to a legal system that isn't set up to benefit lawyers, to less
intellectual property restrictions, to a less adversarial legal system.
Clearly much of this is impossible to implement.
~~~
daveguy
It's not the cost of the contracts themselves that are so expensive it's the
overhead of profit taking by the recipients of each contract. When you hire a
contractor you avoid taking on capital expense and internal complexity
overhead, but you are generally going to pay 15% or more above what it would
cost you to do it in house. You accept this tradeoff with the understanding
that people you contract with have to make some profit too. When you are small
the complexity overhead can easily draw you off course. Month to month and on
demand contracts can be paused rather easily to adjust to cash flows.
It's not the cost of drawing up the contract that adds a significant part of
the cost. The contract work itself that adds overhead.
~~~
fiatjaf
> You accept this tradeoff with the understanding that people you contract
> with have to make some profit too.
Of course not. You accept the tradeoff because it is in your interest to
abstract away risks. Part of the costs involved in this risk taking comes from
how the contracts are set up.
For example, your employee doesn't have an actual contractual obligation to
fulfill such and such goals every month, while an external contracted firm may
have.
~~~
daveguy
Ok. It is still not the _contract_ that is the major cost.
I didn't say the tradeoff is that other people make profit. The tradeoff is
the overhead cost. Sure, that can be another tradeoff -- obliged fulfillment.
Either way you're _paying the contractee_ a little more for that.
It's not the contract itself (the legal expense) that is the major cost in a
contract. Yes it is some overhead, but is it really a significant part
compared to the excess you are paying to have it contracted vs in house?
The point is. It's still going to cost you more, even if the legal cost is
zero.
------
11thEarlOfMar
Struggling with this one a bit.
"The outcome of Gallup’s study clearly shows the strong correlation between
employee engagement and business performance. "
Good, the author says it's a correlation.
But the supporting graphic is titled:
"Employee engagement affects key business outcomes"
Which implies causality.
I can easily image a company that runs through early success, growth and
profitability and the sense of prestige that would bring to the employees.
Absenteeism, accidents, defects could be low because employees are engaged:
They are winning in the market, everyone's getting bonuses, their
acquaintances say, 'oh, wow!' when they mention where they are working.
Then, turn that company down, with the same employees, and you'd have the
opposite effect. A scandal such as a LendingClub, Uber, Theranos, that changes
the fortune suddenly, over night, with the same employee base, and I'd not be
surprised if absenteeism, accidents and defects surged.
In that scenario, it's business performance affecting employee engagement.
~~~
candiodari
The bottom of the article, and About - Team tells you all you need to know.
"If you’re interested to learn more about how to reach The Promised Land,
don’t hesitate to contact us for an inspiring talk, rebellious workshop, or
practical support during your organization’s transformation."
These are management consultants. Their statistics are about as good as those
from psychologists, except they are usually directly paid for getting
particular outcomes with their statistics.
In this case, their case is that there is a major problem in every
organisation ! And they can help ! For $xxxxx they'll "solve this problem"
(with a one-time talk about it, in case you were wondering), and for $xxxxxx
they'll give a workshop, which will surely allow any manager to prove to his
director how engaged he is, while (hardly worth mentioning, really) also
allowing him to go home earlier for a whole week and probably get a free,
really fancy, dinner or two.
Keep this in mind when judging the value of what they're saying. Of course, I
do think they have a point, but they're part of the problem, not the solution.
There was a survey I read which asked the question "would you prevent your
employer from gaining a million dollar in profit if you personally got $500
out of it ?". Apparently 86% would, and a further 10% was undecided.
~~~
TuringNYC
I good example of Management Consulting efficacy is the observation on how
some well-respected consultancies have been failing businesses. DiamondCluster
and A.T. Kearney would be at the top of the list, though dated examples from
my consulting days. If they offer such good strategy, why is their company
doing so poorly?
I once asked some outright, they explained that they are so busy helping
clients they don't have any time to help themselves.
~~~
douche
Perhaps, to paraphrase the old chestnut, "Those who can, do. Those who can't,
consult."
------
jt2190
I'm curious if the European context of corporate "command and control" differs
from the North American one. (edit: The authors are European. edit 2: I've
heard anecdotes that European labor laws make management more "strict" with
workers.) I also wonder if the profession and industry make a huge difference.
In my limited experience in North America as a software developer, there has
been little "command and control", and far more "chaos", i.e. the businesses
didn't seem to have any kind of control over their software development, and
would tolerate a surprisingly low amount of predictability. This was almost
always because non-technical types were in charge. (edit: Non-technical types
often view software management as intractable, and tend to utilize vague
approaches like "we'll ship something on this date".)
------
baursak
Lack of "employee engagement" is not a new insight by far. It's just that
implications of what it takes to address the root cause of it go down quite a
deep rabbit hole.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation)
------
alphonsegaston
Companies like Toyota have long understood that a more democratic workplace
leads to better outcomes overall. But the reality is, barring a major cultural
change or wide-scale labor organization, this kind of management system will
never take hold in America.
We're a fundamentally authoritarian society who organizes all our systems like
their mini-fiefdoms. I've never understood why a society that prides itself so
much on its tradition of democracy would build within itself an economy of
autocratic rulers, but I guess these kind of contradictions are as much a part
of our culture as anything else.
------
jlarocco
I don't know if I agree that employee engagement is a great thing to optimize.
I feel like engagement is a side effect of wanting to get work done.
If I focus and engage and double my productivity, I don't get to spend half as
much time at work, instead I get twice as much work. If I double my
productivity and double my amount of work, I'm still not going to double my
salary or double my PTO or anything like that.
Not to mention that most corporations have no problem whatsoever laying people
off when it'll save them enough money. "Sorry you dedicated 80 hours a week
and weekends to this project, but the economy's bad so we're canceling it and
laying off your division. Oh, and BTW if you try to work on something similar
after we lay you off, we'll sue you. Bye."
I think many people have realized at this point that corporations have very
little respect for their employees and that spending significant mental energy
being super engaged and efficient has mostly negative consequences (at most
companies).
I bet a company could improve productivity quite a bit if they let employees
take the rest of the week off once they finished the week's work. But that
would require management to have an understanding of the work being done and
to plan well, so it won't happen.
------
sgt101
The engagement meme is a nightmare.
1) Measure engagement - surveys, more surveys. Targets for managers of the
surveyed, dismissal, removal of bonus. Survey manipulated, rendered political
tool. Lieing all round. Disaster.
2) Targeting of dissent. "we've finished debating, now we're executing" "boss,
there's a brick wall" "you're fired" "oh" "bang" "oh". Anyone who disagrees or
complains about some aspect of central function in anyway it immediately
branded disengaged and targetted for removal.
Here's a rule. No one can practices management consulting unless they have
worked at a fortune 500 for 30 years.
Here's another one. No one can have a chair at a business school unless
they've worked in the C suite of a fortune 500 for 30 years.
This would cut this rubbish right out.
------
sobinator
I agree with the sentiment, but let's be honest with ourselves; there aren't
that many type-A people bumping around in most organizations whose talents are
going untapped.
Regardless,
Engagement, in my view, is like a double-edged sword--it cuts both ways. On
one hand, getting employees to "pull the wagon" can immensely add value to the
organization. On the other hand, employees attaching too much of their self-
worth to their work (a consequence of being highly engaged) can lead to
employees' egos being of greater importance than the results.
Low engagement is probably just a symptom of some other organizational ill.
~~~
bediger4000
I'm going to suggest that in my experience with both smaller and larger
companies, management (from those managing grunts to C-level) have more of
what they consider fun in a low-engagement company, and the low employee
engagement is a symptom of management having their version of fun.
------
Animats
The graph showing that companies rated highly by Glassdoor outperform the S&P
500 by a factor of 2.4 is significant. Is there a fund which invests that way?
Vanguard should have a Glassdoor Index Fund.
~~~
tjalfi
The Parnassus Endeavour fund ([https://www.parnassus.com/parnassus-mutual-
funds/endeavor/in...](https://www.parnassus.com/parnassus-mutual-
funds/endeavor/investor-shares/)) is partially based on employee satisfaction.
Here is an excerpt from an interview [0] with the portfolio manager.
John Rotonti: How do you define a high-quality business?
Jerome Dodson: Parnassus Investments defines high-quality companies as those
with competitive advantages, quality management, and responsible business
practices. I believe a high-quality workplace is one of the indicators of
company quality. That's why the Endeavor Fund, which was originally named the
Workplace Fund, focuses on investing in good workplaces.
[0] ([https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/19/interview-with-
jer...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/19/interview-with-jerome-
dodson-of-parnassus-investme.aspx))
------
isostatic
We should just use Shift and Option
~~~
twic
Shift yourself to a new job where you get options!
Or if you can't find an opportunity like that, some kind of meta escape?
------
mnm1
What a fluff piece. It makes no points whatsoever, just pretends like it can
make janitorial, secretarial, and waitering work fun and exciting but doesn't
offer a single idea on how they plan to do so (because it's impossible). Talk
about delusional! This reads like an ad because it is. No content whatsoever.
------
microtherion
"Organizations like Kodak, Blackberry, Motorola, Lehman Brothers and Enron are
but a few of the many companies that became overly comfortable and lost their
battle."
This can be argued for the first three of these, but Lehman and especially
Enron were slaughtered by the relentless pursuit of (financial) innovation and
__absence __of effective control.
------
known
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarchy_%28theory%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarchy_%28theory%29)
promotes thinking out of the box
------
Asooka
How about lowering CEO pay by about 90% and distributing that to employees,
i.e. paying a fair wage adjusted for gains in productivity?
~~~
bskap
If you lowered the CEO of McDonalds's pay by 90% and distributed it to all the
employees, they'd get less than $20 each. It doesn't exactly bump them up to a
living wage.
------
trhway
sounds like the companies who get your soul in addition to your brain do
better.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Clearing Up a Few Things About Facebook’s Partners - pg_bot
https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/12/facebooks-partners/
======
mindgam3
“Did partners get access to messages? Yes. But people had to explicitly sign
in to Facebook first to use a partner’s messaging feature. Take Spotify for
example. After signing in to your Facebook account in Spotify’s desktop app,
you could then send and receive messages without ever leaving the app.”
Does anyone have a screenshot or remember what the opt in UX was like this for
this? I have been logged in to Spotify via Facebook since basically the very
beginning. I worked in tech as a dev, PM, and designer of flows. I never had
the understanding that my Facebook connect with Spotify gave them read/write
to all my messages. It’s certainly possible that this permission was requested
in an auth form that I quickly granted without realizing, which would make
this more of a dubious product decision that blatantly unethical. Anyone have
info?
~~~
jahlove
Looks like as of 07/2013 it was this:
[https://imgur.com/UdfzvGU](https://imgur.com/UdfzvGU)
Source:
[https://stackoverflow.com/q/17561784/9027089](https://stackoverflow.com/q/17561784/9027089)
~~~
SilasX
Nice, good find. That doesn't give permission to read (or even generate)
private messages, unless you interpret "my data" to mean something in the last
bullet point that's much broader than the three above.
~~~
bilbo0s
> _unless you interpret "my data" to mean something in the last bullet point
> that's much broader than the three above..._
Hmm. It seems this may sound weird to you and many others, but that's
_exactly_ how I interpreted it. When looking at that screen I was wondering
why anyone in their right mind would grant Spotify these rights?
The only thing Spotify does is play songs for you, right? They shouldn't
really need access to _any_ of your FB data to do that.
~~~
SilasX
Alright, I confess, your interpretation was the same as my immediate hot-take
reaction, but then I stopped and said waiiiiiit a sec, they can't literally
mean, all the data, right? They must mean, like, "my data" in the sense of
that stuff above, right?
Only now does FB reveal themselves to the be treacherous jerk they've always
been and abuse whatever leeway you give them. Use recovery phone number for
marketing? Why not!
~~~
russh
Only now!!! Where have you been?
~~~
SilasX
I agreed they’ve always been treacherous jerks, I meant about the
counterintuitive broad reading of “my data” on this page.
------
i_am_proteus
The language of this post seems _extremely_ carefully chosen and to present as
'let me explain why what Facebook did was fine' and 'Facebook is full of great
features that people use.' The language is somewhere in between reductive and
manipulative.
"this work was about helping people" and "people could have more social
experiences" and "People want to use Facebook features"
and then: "Our integration partners had to get authorization from people. You
would have had to sign in with your Facebook account to use the integration
offered by Apple, Amazon or another integration partner."
I read the last quote as "we used a dark pattern[1] to get your permission for
this"
[1][https://darkpatterns.org/](https://darkpatterns.org/)
~~~
jahlove
this isn't clear to you?
[https://i.imgur.com/UdfzvGU.png](https://i.imgur.com/UdfzvGU.png)
~~~
i_am_proteus
There's a reason the post wasn't worded as "you would have had to explicitly
give permission for Spotify to access all of your messages."
It is my opinion that Facebook recognizes exactly how unethical their behavior
was, as evidenced by the language they choose to use to describe their
behavior.
------
Humdeee
The whole article seems odd. I have no training in public relations, but I
assumed the narrative would try to at least seem sincere about end-user's
privacy concerns.
There's none of that at all, not that it would be believable at this point
anyhow. But it reads like a bully trying to justify to a teacher why he chose
to eat another kid's lunch. It's clear fb has no moral guilt here and actually
implies that all blame is shifted off of themselves.
~~~
adrr
It's extremely poor PR. I was caught up in the 2012 FTC investigation on
social networks and data brokers. Public just wants to hear how you are going
to protect their data. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. Pushing that
you weren't wrong narrative just alienates your users even more.
------
kerng
What did I just read? Is this a legitimate Facebook post? Are they actively
trying to defend and justify their actions? First step in crisis management
would be to acknowledge the crisis for what it is. Without that stage Facebook
will never get out of this. It's like Microsoft's security before Bill Gates's
trustworthy computing memo. Facebook you have to change.
------
zephyrnh
I assume someone at Facebook, hopefully the person that wrote this, or someone
who has more influence over this issue, is reading.
I am an engineer. I understand technology better than most of the general
population. When I sign in to my Facebook account to use Spotify, I am
absolutely not expecting that Spotify will now have access to read every
single one of my private messages. This is a gross violation of trust, and if
this is what happened, then the fact that you not only made this mistake, but
also then published this blog post defending it, marks a low point for
Facebook. Perhaps irrecoverably so for me.
"After signing in to your Facebook account in Spotify’s desktop app, you could
then send and receive messages without ever leaving the app. Our API provided
partners with access to the person’s messages in order to power this type of
feature."
This is a write permission. So you needed to give Spotify permission to create
a message. It seems that your system combines the read and write permissions,
since you just grouped them together by saying "access to the person's
messages". It also seems from your defense that you see absolutely no issue
with this. In order to share a song through Spotify, you are giving them
access to every single private message the user has ever written.
I find it hard to believe that Facebook refuses to acknowledge any fault in
this: The initial product decision, the upholding of this decision through
previous privacy investigations, and this PR response. Am I misinterpreting
the facts or scale of this?
~~~
marrone12
Well if you want to receive a message that someone sends you then you'd also
need to grant Spotify read permissions. In essence, you'd be using Spotify as
a client app for fb messenger. How else could that work without Spotify
getting read/write access to your messages?
~~~
zephyrnh
I assume the point here to send someone a message on FB with a Spotify link,
so they click on it in their messages and it opens up the Spotify app. If you
just want to send a message from one Spotify user directly to another in
Spotify, you don't need FB messages at all, right? Spotify has a list of all
your FB friend IDs already and knows which Spotify accounts each is connected
to
~~~
chillacy
I think the use case is closer to Spotify acting as an alternative client to
the messenger backend, much like Adium is an alternative client for Google
Chat. Which in this case you have to trust the client. It feels grosser
because Spotify isn’t just a desktop application, they could in theory have
stored and mined your chats.
------
40acres
I was too young to really keep abreast of the Microsoft anti-trust lawsuit,
but I've never seen a technology company come under so much sustained pressure
than Facebook over the past 18 months.
The New York Times in particular has definitely made it a mission to air out
all of Facebook's dirty laundry. Overall, I don't think that this will result
in users becoming more concerned about privacy (although their governments
may) but it does seem like Facebook from a product perspective is vulnerable,
even considering the amazing backstops that are Instagram and WhatsApp.
~~~
notacoward
> The New York Times in particular has definitely made it a mission to air out
> all of Facebook's dirty laundry.
There are two thoughts here that people here assume are mutually exclusive,
but they're really not.
(1) What NYT has reported is true, and highlights some serious issues that
Facebook needs to address.
(2) NYT _also_ , without saying anything untrue, takes negative news about
Facebook out of context and gives it more prominence/repetition than is
appropriate.
Both of these are possible simultaneously. I happen to believe both are true.
The "providing a platform" argument was much more relevant at the time most of
these actions occurred, even if that doesn't fully excuse them. And even if
this significant news, that might not justify burying other important stories
(e.g. imminent government shutdown) so that it can be top of the news multiple
times in the next week. As it surely will, even if there are no new
revelations.
As for the substance of the OP or the NYT story to which it responds: no
comment. Facebook PR is going to have to do this one without me. >:-(
~~~
jaabe
What?
Facebook has so far admitted to everything, or in other words, the gross
mishandling of privacy of a billion people for a decade and an unwillingness
to improve.
Is your point that we shouldn’t worry about Facebook being an evil company
because there are worse things out there?
Why can’t we worry about multiple things at once?
Even if we go down the road of whataboutism, don’t you think Facebook has
earned its place in the spotlight? Facebook has shown itself to be an
existential threat to liberal democracy and truth in recent years, it’s hard
to imagine a bigger threat than that. I mean, if it wasn’t for a gazillion
fake accounts gaming interest groups on Facebook, a lot less people would
think things like climate change was fake. Which means that at its very worst,
Facebook is being used to kill the planet.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think Facebook can be really good, at its best,
and that’s exactly why I think the focus on their missteps is welcome. We need
to tell them where the line is, so we can get more good and less bad.
~~~
chillacy
Mass communication is a threat to democracy? That somehow only more censorship
(fake news screening or whatever people want to call it) can fix? This is such
a profoundly anti-democratic position, with extra overtones of “these voters
didn’t know any better”.
~~~
rchaud
> Mass communication is a threat to democracy?
Why did you think that strawman would work on HN of all places? FB didn't
invent email, chatrooms, message boards, or the internet, things that actually
support mass communication.
~~~
chillacy
Curious how you can call that a strawman without knowing OP's actual position.
I mean to be fair I likely misrepresented his ideas but to do otherwise
requires a lot of back and forth questions to really understand the positions
at hand.
I hope we don't have a long internet argument about what "mass communication"
is, that would be a great waste of time.
I just suspect that if facebook didn't exist, message boards and chatrooms
would have launched Trump into the white house just the same, and we'd be
casting them as a "threat to democracy".
~~~
rchaud
> I hope we don't have a long internet argument about what "mass
> communication" is, that would be a great waste of time.
100% agree. That is why I don't bother reading the comments where the
discussion veers into the semantics of the label used ("socialism" and "market
forces" related stories being the worst offenders).Usually the story isn't
about that at all, but people seem to love rehashing their college-era debates
that ended nowhere.
> I just suspect that if facebook didn't exist, message boards and chatrooms
> would have launched Trump into the white house just the same
I partially disagree. Without FB, Twitter could still have spread mass
misinformation and divisive propaganda. Either way, the scale of either isn't
comparable to message boards of yore. Those allowed for total anonymity. You
weren't mandated to provide a real name. You weren't encouraged to share
details of your personal life (relationship status, alma mater, location).
Message boards also didn't have ad networks built into it that incentivized
data gathering on a mass scale. Finally, message boards were not built around
"sharing". That's what got fake news posts outside of your crazy uncle's FB
circle and into local news website comments page, etc, giving it visibility it
wouldn't have otherwise.
What were the biggest message boards back in the day? Something Awful? Digg?
4chan? A few million members max. FB has 2 billion + on a single network. A
single point of entry where the network gives you (as an advertiser/bad actor)
near-unprecedented targeting ability for promoted posts and ads. If you popped
into your local phpBB baseball forum and dropped off a meme showing Clinton
with the Star of David with no additional context, you'd get booted by a
moderator for being off-topic and thread would be locked. No way to spread it
to the outside world. Not so on social networks.
------
Teichopsia
It's hilarious. Facebook misbehaves like a three year old and lies to your
face about it. Fifteen years later and the same dysfunctional relationship
continues. In a few days, in a couple of weeks there will be some post from
their engineering department regarding some fantastic thing they are working
on, they released, whatever. And this hate love debate will dissipate to the
far end of your minds. When will you say enough?
------
PaybackTony
I think what they are failing to address here, and what is incredibly
misleading of them in this message, is that they fail to define what "public
information" or "public activity" means to them. They define this in their TOS
& Privacy Policy as pretty much anything you do on facebook, or a separate
property that integrates with them, that you don't EXPLICITLY set as private.
This statement tries to make it sound like they use very little data, when in
all actuality most of what you do on FB is considered "public" to them even if
they don't show this stuff publicly. That's not okay.
------
Havoc
So basically it's totally OK because someone clicked sign in with fb? I bet
the majority didn't realise that implied giving access to private messages.
Seems pretty dark pattern-y at best
>this work was about helping people do two things
One of the most disengenious things I've read in a while. Nothing about this
was about helping users.
I hope they get slaughtered on the markets tomorrow (again).
------
armini
There are 3 parts to a genuine apology. 1 we’re sorry 2 we messed up 3 here’s
what we’re doing to fix it
This is a poor attempt at an apology. It just shows how desperately they acted
to grow users with little to no regard for user privacy. That’s a typical
footprint for a mercenary company, not one who’s mission is to respect its
users.
Just look at how Apple apologized about their battery dilemma. Here’s a great
way to show you care about your users [https://www.apple.com/au/iphone-
battery-and-performance/](https://www.apple.com/au/iphone-battery-and-
performance/)
~~~
jhacker123
> Just look at how Apple apologized about their battery dilemma. Here’s a great way to show you care about your users
In Apple's case, users are also customers and everybody take genuine care
about their customers.
In Fb's case, users are not their customers, they are product for them. and
product are meant to be for sell, and this is what they do.
------
etxm
> To personalize content, tailor and measure ads and provide a safer
> experience, we use cookies. By tapping on the site you agree to our use of
> cookies on and off Facebook. Learn more, including about controls: Cookie
> Policy
> By tapping on the site
> use of cookies on and off Facebook
So an accidental interaction when trying to navigate away after seeing your
cookie policy opts me into your cookie policy.
You bastards are full on assholes, huh?
~~~
eridius
There's no way "any interaction with the page" could possibly legally
constitute agreeing to any sort of policy. I hope someone sues them over this.
------
drugme
Do we have any reason to believe anything this company says about anything
anymore?
It's like they know they're in a very deep hole - yet with every press release
they just keep digging themselves in deeper.
------
m0zg
And now you know why Google is _really_ shutting down Google+ earlier than
planned. Someone should also take a look at Android, where there are some
insane permissions available, like accessing your messages and call log. I
wonder how much those have been abused by third parties far less trusted than
e.g. Spotify. Granted, you have to consent to all of this crap, but 99% of
users perceive this as a speed bump and click OK without reading, and the
remaining 1% won't touch Android with a 10 foot pole after seeing one of those
permission dialogs.
~~~
dirkgently
Ah the inevitable, "it's all Google's fault" reply.
~~~
m0zg
I don't see how you could misconstrue my comment in this way, but what I meant
to say is "Google should also receive scrutiny" for these very similar privacy
issues. I don't think anyone can argue with this in good faith.
------
kkhire
Can someone clear this up (preferably if you've worked with the FB API):
when NYT published that spotify and netflix have accessed to private messages,
isn't that simply for them to do a POST call for sharing a tv show or song?
~~~
ubernostrum
Facebook appears to have designed their system in such a way that permissions
were not granular enough to do things like "Spotify can only post certain
types of messages". Instead it had to be "Spotify has full read/write access
to all private messages".
Given Facebook's history it's hard to believe that the lack of granularity,
and resulting incentivizing of users to grant as much access to personal data
as possible, was an accidental oversight.
~~~
bduerst
Looking at the Spotify sign-in image from 2013 that jahlove found above,
Spotify didn't even ask for that auth permission.
The full messaging access seemed to be a hidden bonus for their larger
partners.
------
echevil
I think a very common problem with OAuth (way beyond Facebook) is that people
often underestimate the permission they are giving to a 3rd party. For
example, if you use some email client to manage your Gmail, the email client
would request permission to "manage your Gmail", exactly what you want, but
that actually gives the 3rd party permission not only to read all your mails,
but to send out emails on behalf of you.
------
bogomipz
The Title should be corrected. The title of post is actually:
"Let’s Clear Up a Few Things About Facebook’s Partners"
This distinction is notable for it's patronizing tone.
Of course the assumption that we all have it wrong. "There's nothing to see
here, please move along." Everything that was done was done to make the world
a more connected place and for us to have more "social interactions."
This post is a case study in how not to do PR. There's wasn't even a remote
hint of concern for what their users might be feeling in the wake of this
story. But perhaps it doesn't matter anyway since this company has zero
credibility at this point.
------
onetimemanytime
So CuteApp allows you to read FB messages and email from their app. They cut
deal with FB but you still need to want to do it and then enter your FB
credentials while in CuteApp. Unless messages are saved in the app, unsecured,
I see no problem. FB users read _his_ messages somewhere else but using their
FB credentials. (If I understood it correctly)
~~~
ameister14
No, CuteApp allows you to read FB messages and email from their app. They cut
a deal with FB and even if you don't use the service, CuteApp can still access
your messages. You don't actually know about the service - it isn't in the
permissions and you didn't give explicit consent for it. Doesn't matter.
~~~
justinsaccount
Do you have any evidence to back up these claims?
~~~
ameister14
Yes, actually. 1\. There is no record of an explicit permissions check, and
there are records of other checks.
2\. Facebook has acknowledged (multiple times, now) giving read/write access
as long as you were logged in through Facebook to one of these systems - you
don't have to explicitly enable it _and_ engage the message service, which is
what OP was saying.
3\. They say: "No third party was reading your private messages, or writing
messages to your friends without your permission." They aren't saying that no
third party was reading or writing messages, just that you gave it permission
to do so. Unfortunately, that permission was, again, not explicitly given. It
was a blanket (access data) permission. Facebook has a documented and admitted
history of obfuscating what permissions you are actually giving it - the
messaging app being one example.
~~~
justinsaccount
You said:
> even if you don't use the service, CuteApp can still access your messages.
> You don't actually know about the service
I don't disagree that permissions dialogs can be confusing and misleading, but
you were initially claiming that CuteApp could access your messages even if
you have never used it. Are you no longer making this claim?
~~~
ameister14
No, I am making the claim that you don't have to use the message service for
them to read your messages. I was unclear.
------
verdverm
Title seems aggressive, yes?
I spent an hour trying to remove all of the advertisement connections, have no
idea how far into it I got. Mostly realtors and car dealerships
------
jeromebaek
They are no good at all at apologizing. They somehow manage to be consistently
condescending. Facebookers, take this into account next time (or the next
dozen times) you have to write up an apology.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6116544](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6116544)
~~~
mrnobody_67
He's been apologizing since 2006... think they'd get better at it by now.
[https://www.fastcompany.com/40547045/a-brief-history-of-
mark...](https://www.fastcompany.com/40547045/a-brief-history-of-mark-
zuckerberg-apologizing-or-not-apologizing-for-stuff)
------
jpatokal
> Did partners get access to messages?
> Yes.
(o_O;
...and every time I think FB can't get any worse, it does.
Serious Q: is there a way to find out what services I've ever authorized into
using my Facebook account, and nuke those links/permissions? I haven't done
that in years, but who knows how many of these there are still lying around.
------
stonecraftwolf
Facebook can’t be regulated into the ground and then sued into a fine dust
fast enough.
It is really hard to overstate the ambient anger out there at a general sense
of exploitation. FB have made themselves a lightning rod for that anger.
Couldn’t happen to a more exploitive, manipulative company.
------
defterGoose
Remember when fb blog posts used to be about cool tech problems? How much more
unfun and 'last year' can this platform get?
------
objektif
Its funny how the article keeps repeating “people had to explicitly sign in”
to give access. Well that should not be enough let 3rd party apps read my
messages.
------
slics
It all boils down to convinience. People are so easy manipulated with just a
little incentive. Just keep one thing in mind. If at any given time there is a
product or service that has no cost or fee to use, the first thing should pop
in your head is: “There is nothing free in this world.” If you hit Accept / OK
for a free service / product the blame is on you/us, not them.
------
echevil
Is it just me that couldn't find the feature in Spotify desk app to actually
send a message to a friend from the app?
~~~
danabramov
These features were removed in 2015.
------
sidcool
If not the US, other nations should take stringent measures to reign in the
out of control Facebook horse. They have broken most ethical and moral
boundaries of trust. They not only treated users like a product, but exploited
them. I hope they find their day in the court of law.
------
dep_b
There's just one thing that really struck me:
"Apple, Amazon, Blackberry and Yahoo"
I think the person who wrote this piece first ordered those companies on
alphabetic order to look as neutral as possible, then somebody standing behind
the editor leaned over and said "Perhaps you could move Apple to the first
spot?"
There isn't a single comma accidental in this article.
Anyway: as somebody pointed out the dialog clearly stated that Spotify could
access your data even without using Spotify. I think people should be a bit
more conscious about what they trust to a third party to begin with. No,
you're not paranoid running your own mail server.
------
forapurpose
In case people want to read the original story and discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18712382](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18712382)
------
chj
This has been the de facto practice for ages in API integration. Everyone is
doing it. When you grant Dropbox access to an app, can you say Dropbox is
colluding with app developer?
~~~
ummonk
That is what confuses me. It is a widespread issue in the industry, but
somehow Facebook is getting singled out for it. And the particular
integrations in question were disabled years ago.
------
dangerboysteve
Crisis management playbook in action.
------
sambroner
The FIRST thing I see when I visit this site (on mobile) is a popup telling me
this...
```To personalize content, tailor and measure ads and provide a safer
experience, we use cookies. By tapping on the site you agree to our use of
cookies on and off Facebook. Learn more, including about controls: Cookie
Policy. Cookie Policy```
I know they have to do that, and it was already there... but doesn't that feel
like a slap in the face?
------
dgzl
This is their remorse:
"Still, we recognize that we’ve needed tighter management over how partners
and developers can access information using our APIs"
------
sriku
I cannot proceed to reading the article because I refuse to accept fb's cookie
policy that doesn't seem to give a way to read the content without accepting a
cookie from them.
~~~
ummonk
Why not browse in incognito, so the cookies clear out when you close the
window?
------
bambax
> _Today, we’re facing questions about whether Facebook gave large tech
> companies access to people’s information and, if so, why we did this._
> _To put it simply, this work was about helping people..._
Putting it simply would be to answer YES to the first question instead of
sleazing your way into a thousand words false apology where you don't admit to
have ever done anything wrong besides leaving old APIs running for longer than
they should have (!)
Also, nothing Facebook does is about "helping people". That is not their
business. Their business is exploitation.
~~~
chillacy
Is all business exploitation? And capitalism is the problem?
Businesses have to have customers and users to survive, even tobacco companies
provide value to users even if their product kills them.
If Facebook provides 0 value, stop using them and all the other rational
people will too. If they provide a modicum of value, then people will use them
if the value delivered is below the cost (cost includes privacy violation and
bad trust).
------
AJRF
“Did partners get access to messages?
Yes.”
That’s all the article needed to be.
------
sys_64738
Why would I believe the fibs from an ad company?
------
Humdeee
> We’re already in the process of reviewing all our APIs and the partners who
> can access them.
Translation:
chmod 777 *
------
AdmiralAsshat
> To be clear: none of these partnerships or features gave companies access to
> information without people’s permission, nor did they violate our 2012
> settlement with the FTC.
Always take note of the defense, "It was legal." It is the last defense of an
opponent who knows they have lost the moral battle.
------
cryoshon
there's nothing to clear up. the statement is a non-denial denial when you
read it closely.
~~~
askafriend
I don't understand your point.
It reads like a fairly clear and descriptive statement to me and in-line with
actual facts reported by the newsmedia (without the messy presentation of the
newsmedia).
------
ilovecaching
This is just more NYT slander to finish off their biggest advertising rival.
Nothing about this was out of the ordinary or hidden from the user. The next
article will be the NYT saying Zuck broke the public’s trust because Facebook
had this thing called an API which is totally evil and corrupt. It probably
stands for Anti-Privacy Interface.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
SQL vs. NoSQL: you do want to have a relational storage by default - vkhorikov
http://enterprisecraftsmanship.com/2015/11/06/sql-vs-nosql-you-do-want-to-have-a-relational-storage-by-default/
======
jhugg
I care so much less about the data model. Document or Relational: I can see
different apps preferring one or the other.
Two things are interesting to me:
1\. What's the consistency model? Is NoSQL really NoTxns? Whether you need
transactions or not probably affects your decision more than tables vs docs.
Similarly if you still want some partial functionality in the face of larger
failures, maybe forgoing consistency is worth it. (Note that some NoSQL
systems support strong consistency and some relational systems don't).
2\. Is your query language as powerful as SQL? First, SQL is not a great
language, but it's probably still better than whatever your NoSQL store is
using, once you move beyond CRUD and very simple filtering. Declarative
queries with an optimizer is the right choice for most applications. The
expressiveness once you get to "group by", joins and subqueries is difficult
to replicate in a programatic query language.
You may not _like_ SQL. That's fair. But there's a reason it seemingly can't
be kept down. See CQL, Impala, SparkSQL, F1/Spanner, Presto, etc... Couchbase
has been the most recent "oops" with their N1QL introduction and near complete
messaging reversal (on this issue).
------
sklogic
> you do want to have a relational storage by default
No I do not, thank you very much.
> The concept of NoSQL databases has been around for a while
For far longer than the concept of SQL databases.
> Alright, so are NoSQL databases really schemaless?
All the classic document-oriented systems had very strict and complex schemas.
> The first one is data (referential) integrity
Enforced by a schema. SQL is not any special here.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: React Native or iOS Native and responsive web app? - morcutt
For those of you that have gone the React Native route…<p>- Would you do it over again?<p>- Did your team ever rewrite or wish they went native initially?<p>- What stage is your product at?<p>- What was the decision to go React Native?<p>I am researching which route to take a new product in. The proposed initial option is React Native or Swift, responsive SPA, and down the road Android. Most of my work has been with iOS native but I have spent a lot of time in the web world lately. My initial reaction for React Native is, it is great in the beginning but can cost companies a lot of money and time in the long run (as seen by Airbnb, Udacity, and NextDoor.) Though some big orgs do use it successfully here and there (Pinterest, Facebook, Instagram) throughout their apps.
======
htormey
“ -Would you do it over again?”
It depends. I’m a native iOS engineer whos spent a bunch of time doing React
native development. I’ve worked on multiple React Native projects that have
shipped.
If I was creating a new app from scratch I would hands down use React Native
for most projects.
If I was working on an existing native project, (native iOS/Android code
base), I probably wouldn’t use React Native.
“Did your team ever rewrite or wish they went native initially? ”
It really depends. 95% of the people using React Native are web engineers and
React Native is their first experience doing mobile. Those people don’t regret
using React Native.
The people who I’ve worked with or encountered who did regret using React
Native are people who’ve used it within an existing native app. These people
are usually native engineers with little prior exposure to React or
Javascript. I have also done brownfield React Native and I can understand why
they would have this perspective.
“- What was the decision to go React Native”
Productivity and cost. It takes a lot less time to ship a cross platform React
Native app than to build it twice in kotlin/swift. If you do
consulting/contracting work or you are an early stage startup on a budget
React Native is a no brainer for most projects. Multimedia projects or games
being notable exceptions.
“My initial reaction for React Native is, it is great in the beginning but can
cost companies a lot of money and time in the long run (as seen by Airbnb,
Udacity, and NextDoor.) Though some big orgs do use it successfully here and
there (Pinterest, Facebook, Instagram) throughout their apps.”
All of those organizations have large engineering teams and are doing
brownfield (integrating React Native into an existing project) apps. That is
most likely not what you are doing.
Brownfield React Native is about 2-3x as hard as building a new app from
scratch. I gave a presentation explaining why this is the case earlier in the
year at chain React:
[https://youtu.be/44YdvFAwQwA](https://youtu.be/44YdvFAwQwA)
~~~
morcutt
Thanks for the thorough response. This is very helpful. The tech team doesn't
exist yet so this would be from scratch.
It is a startup (with a decent size seed round.)
Do you ever run into bugs/crashes that are way harder to resolve with React
Native?
~~~
htormey
Bugs yes, crashes no. If you go with React Native research how to include the
JavaScript stacktrace when submitting a crash report to crashlytics etc. It
will make tracing things easier.
A big problem with React Native is upgrading versions and third party
libraries. This is the biggest pain point for most people I work with. Things
break regularly and you have to be very careful with regard to reading release
notes and testing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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