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Recovering the Lost Apollo 10 LM Software [video] - mkarr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JTa1RQxU04
======
morcheeba
Summary: they found a document with checksums for each of the 36 banks of the
missing software. This let them know that two banks had changed. Working from
an earlier and later source listing versions, they had to recreate only some
of the changes. Luckily, they found memos describing the changes - mostly in a
newer gravity model. All that was left was to put the code in the proper
places, and some obvious guesses (e.g. new constants at the end of existing
constants) -- and it worked!
A fun watch.
------
est31
We aren't printing out our source code any more. Which means that such
recovery methods won't work in the future. Has archival of such historic stuff
improved since?
~~~
sonofgod
There's some projects. Like arctic archival of github repos:
[https://archiveprogram.github.com/](https://archiveprogram.github.com/)
Granted, this is only a snapshot, and preservation is a big problem. And you
can't easily preserve gigabytes of data in dead tree format...
Generally the best approach is "Lots of Copies Keep Stuff Safe" but moves to
streaming media and game rental services worry me.
There also needs to be a recognition that what we see is often a very small
fraction of what existed... most things won't survive, unless successive
generations of people continuously care sufficiently about them. Or they're
ubiquitous that we'll find at least one...
~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Lots of copies on flash chips are all going to be gone in 100 years.
~~~
WalterBright
I don't trust flash chips at all.
My older media is all pretty much unreadable for one reason or another. My
solution is to buy new drives every year and copy everything forward.
Fortunately, the capacity keeps rising so that works out rather well.
------
douglasheriot
I think this is the GitHub repo with the code shown in the video. Very
impressive!
[https://github.com/virtualagc/virtualagc/](https://github.com/virtualagc/virtualagc/)
------
fortran77
That LEM simulator they used at the end was fascinating. Is there a video that
does a deep dive of that.
Mike Stewart seems like the most charming technical guy I've ever seen.
------
nessup
Incredible.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Towers of Hanoi - In Scala's Type System - fogus
http://gist.github.com/66925
======
wheaties
This has convinced me I need to spend more time on Scala. Well done.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My patent-pending three-question technical interview - timf
http://stu.mp/2012/10/my-patent-pending-3-question-technical-interview.html
======
antidoh
"I love this question because it washes out every idiot who learned how to use
the Rails or Django ORM and now thinks they’re some wizard at SQL."
Because it eliminates many people of a certain early skill/experience level.
Which is fine but don't call sincere people idiots. We're all on a continuum.
------
Mr-G
The questions are BS and nothing special compared to those from other
interviewers pretending to have found the silver bullet.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Slower News - galfarragem
https://github.com/slowernews/slowernews
======
jasode
_> Articles are hand selected. Everything that calls my attention and passes
the «trivia filter» _
Let me respectfully comment that the above explanation _doesn 't actually mean
anything to me_ because I don't know what articles you _rejected_.
That's the same problem I have with people's lists of "best" book
recommendations: _I don 't know what supposedly great and well-regarded books
the curator disliked or found useless_. That "negative" list that nobody ever
volunteers is probably more useful than seeing _" How to Win Friends and
Influence People"_ repeatedly on everyone's list.
If I knew you well as a longtime friend -- or -- you were already an
established authority on digesting news (e.g. Chomsky, Hitchens, etc), then I
could forego looking at your rejections. But since I don't, the only way to
know if your "pass" filter is useful to me is if I weigh it against your
"rejects".
~~~
kylebenzle
I make book lists and this is GREAT advices. From now on I will have an
addendum at the bottom that lists ALL the books for that list that were
rejected, thank you!
~~~
Zhyl
I mean while this is a flippant response, this does highlight something that
doesn't really exist at the moment: second order derivative lists.
You make a list and then I prioritise and filter your list.
Making a list of your top 100 books implicitly rejects all other books. Me
taking your list of 100 books and rejecting a load with justification gives a
lot more information about what I value in the books and, moreover, which of
your values I disagree with.
We _kind_ of have this with comment trees but it will often be the case that
someone publishes a list (e.g. all of the episodes of Black Mirror in order of
preference or all Studio Ghibli films in order of preference) and then the
comments will take issue with the inclusion of certain items, exclusion of
certain items or the placement of certain items. What you rarely get is the
commentator publishing their own version of the list and what you never get is
the commentator creating a completely derivative list.
------
jrochkind1
So that's a lot of fancy language to say it's... a manual blog aggregating
stuff interesting to the editor? We definitely used to have a lot of those a
few years ago, you remember, pre-facebook, fair enough.
It's usually helpful if you explain more about your scope of interest for
selecting content, I don't really understand what the words mean here.
"relevant trends, micro-trends and edge cases for borderline nerds"\-- Not
sure if this is implied within the field of software development, or just...
general human knowledge? Not sure the difference between a trend or a micro-
trend, edge case in... what, or if it's meant to be applicable to full-on
nerds or just borderline nerds...
~~~
galfarragem
It's hard to curate articles (at least in subjects where we are not
specialists) for a different audience than ourselves. So I pick the group
where I feel I fit in.
~~~
jrochkind1
Sure. I don't feel you've been successful in describing what that audience is
in a way that makes sense to anyone else, or in describing what about this
project you think makes it interesting or novel.
It's basically just a list of links you personally find interesting then? That
can be said more clearly. I'm not totally sure what would make it novel as a
project, lots of people have assembled public lists of links interesting to
them before, yes?
------
elcapitan
One of the most annoying things to me in current journalism is how news and
facts and opinion pieces get more and more conflated. Probably because the
pure "news" is readily available to everyone, so the respective media just
take those news, put their spin on it and cater it that way to their audience
as a way to create a "product".
Unfortunately this linkblog (that's what it is) isn't really much different,
it's a collection of opinion pieces that the author agrees with.
When I want reasonable, global news, I usually just go to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events),
which is quite balanced and linking sources and Wikipedia articles about the
topic.
~~~
mitchdoogle
This Wiki link is awesome! It is way more useful to get an idea of major news
trends over time than OP's blog
------
roadbeats
Slow news definitely has value for people who prefers them. The best thing I
did last year was to delete all my social accounts (except HN) and subscribe
to hard copy of The Economist. It comes weekly, covers all important events
around the world and gives good level of depth on the subjects. I would not
consider switching to a digital source though. Paper is better, goes better
with dumbphones :)
~~~
Funes-
I'm glad you're better off after taking that decision, which is definitely a
brave one nowadays. When do you get the paper delivered? I feel like I'd
prefer to read it on the weekends. I might think about doing something
similar. I already use a dumbphone, as well.
~~~
roadbeats
The Economist shows up in my mailbox on every Friday regularly. I live in
Berlin, not sure about their delivery to other places.
~~~
ploika
Mine arrives on Tuesday afternoons in Dublin, posted from Germany in fact.
If I renew my subscription I'll go digital only, because my physical paper is
only in-date for a couple of days before the new issue is out on the website
and app.
------
Funes-
A single page containing a huge list of links, ordered by subjects which you
necessarily have to scroll through, with no dates attached to them as well as
lacking the date the list was last updated as a whole. And, to top it off, the
author seemingly wants to include ads [0].
I'm all for slowly consuming relevant (i. e. relevant to me, personally) news,
but I can't get behind the execution on this project.
[0] At the very top of the page: "Dear sponsor, this text link could show us
your great product!".
~~~
52-6F-62
I have to agree. While I applaud the effort and see a slow news digest as a
great project idea, I think this could use some refinement.
The very purpose of "news" is timely publication. As it stands, this seems
more to be a digest of subjects and articles of personal interest and little
more.
On the subject of ads—I see no problem with that. It appears they want them to
be static ads which is a refreshing move.
I encourage the creator to keep working on it.
------
RankingMember
How'd this one get past your hand-selected filter? It's literally just a link
to a meme (linked to under the heading "Demography"):
[https://imgur.com/a/BHqTPMO](https://imgur.com/a/BHqTPMO)
~~~
nkrisc
There are also some quite sinister undertones that could be read into that,
whether it was intentional or not.
~~~
mlavin
I think it's very intentional. As hackneyed as the phrase is, the current
political atmosphere has seen this rise of demographics change as a feared
thing.
~~~
nkrisc
Yes, my personal interpretation of it is that it is a dogwhistle, but I was
being charitable. Then again, a good dogwhistle is plausibly deniable as
inoccuous.
Which really make me reconsider everything this person might have chosen to
share on this site, and how "newsworthy" it really is.
------
rhacker
I'd be more interested in an automated news aggregator that timelines top
issues, so that you can see the updates. The timeline would be intelligent
enough to know when news articles cross into other areas. Sorta like a Git
branch looking tree.
Like the dems races linked up to the COVID-19 outbreak, where it largely was
not linked up a week ago.
Although I think everything falls into the COVID-19 trunk at this point.
The timeline would have 1 sentence summaries using some kind of NL summary
tool.
------
choward
I love that the first part of the docs is a "WTF is this?" section.
Unfortunately the paragraph that follows doesn't answer the question at all.
And that "Colophon" section at the bottom... What? Anyway, after reading the
readme, I still have no idea what this project is.
~~~
time0ut
It is just a static HTML page with lists of links to articles the author
thought were interesting. I remember making something like this 20 years ago
to use as my homepage.
------
cyborgx7
Props for listing the biases. Specially self-described centrists are prone to
thinking their viewpoint is the unbiased one. At least from my experience.
Edit: One question. You say "new articles are easy to spot" but how do I spot
them?
~~~
galfarragem
New links will have a different color for a few months.
------
jmiskovic
You didn't want to spend so much time reading news, so you started curating
news for others? Hm.
The site has nice and cozy design, good work. By the way, "Facebook is
becoming an «independent nation»" is a dead link.
------
onlyrealcuzzo
I just want to say that I've been thinking of making almost exactly this for a
couple of years now. I'm glad someone did it [=
You're getting a lot of hate, but I really think there's a lot of value in
something like this.
The reason I never pursued it very far is I'm not sure how you make a
meaningful amount of money out of it.
I feel like you either stay small or get big and evolve into the problem you
set out to solve.
~~~
mitchdoogle
A lot of hate is deserved. You have to have a huge ego to think that a list of
articles you found on the internet is worthy of anyone's attention. There is
next to no value here.
------
QuelqueChose
If you'd allow me to respectfully suggest an edit to the (IMO cleverly
written) by-line of the site.
> This is, somehow, a slowly updated news-aggregator with relevant trends,
> micro-trends and edge cases for borderline nerds, that don't want to miss
> out, _nor_ spend a shit-ton of time distilling trivia.
------
mikesabat
I like this idea if it focuses on a specific subject, but I don't think it
works as an aggregator.
During the 2016 election there was a FB Messenger app called purple, which
would send out 1 message per day with the news on the election. It allowed me
to ignore all the headlines and clickbait because I knew that Purple would
tell me everything real and useful.
With news aggregation, what I find interesting is highly personable to me so
trusting a human to figure this out doesn't seem like the ideal approach.
Obviously google news is nailing this, but leans towards clickbait. Something
like pocket offering this customized aggregation could be cool if they were
optimizing for me saving articles, not just clicking on them. Of course Pocket
does have suggestions and I completely ignore them.
------
BrunoBernardino
Congrats on trying to slow down in general!
I built a slow news aggregator for people to control their own news (via RSS
feeds). It’s at [https://focusd.co](https://focusd.co) in case that helps you
with your curation for the aggregation
------
peterwwillis
At first I thought this was a machine learning project that sampled news over
a period of time and rejected nearly-identical articles that pop up over the
same amount of time. "important news! bill gates gives 5 million to fight
COVID!" that pops up on 50 news sites a few hours apart could be rejected,
while a lone article that only appears in one or two places would appear as
non-trivial. Apply filter on HN articles and you get just the unique, non-
trending stuff. Sample over 24 hours and you have the most popular non-
trending articles.
------
friendlybus
What's the point of news that's not new. This is a museum for articles that
support a curator's worldview without the attached communities, timely context
and broad appeal of HN or Reddit. Rewatching Friends or The Office is not
meant to inform me about the state of the world.
This idea as a platform might work better. Giving me (the user) the ability to
sculpt my own mirror or museum for the world's news with powerful categories
might be more helpful. Thinkspot has gotten closer to a better news source
than a Slow News application.
~~~
kqr
The idea behind the more general movement of slow news is
1\. Given time to read and write proper investigative journalism, one doesn't
have to resort to copy-pasting descriptive "news" from wire organisations.
2\. With hindsight, it is easier to pick out which stories turned out to be
significant, and which did not.
3\. By revisiting past events, one can begin to unwind what greater
consequences they had.
Essentially, slow news is a way to better understand what matters in the
world. It won't let you talk about the latest soap opera star in the
breakroom, but that's not news anyway, in my opinion.
I'm not sure the author agrees with this, but it's an attempt at answering
your question about the value of slower news.
~~~
friendlybus
Quality journalism that takes a month to unpack requires journalism done by
the greatest writers, someone who can pack a lot of information into a very
small amount of content.
An article (from OP's website) titled 'Poor kids need summer jobs, Rich kids
get them' is interesting for a moment to the majority of readers and few
readers who have kids looking for summer jobs will find relevant information
in the article. The article mentions Brexit and UBI which are inevitably going
to age. A month or years after release I would find better information in
books on the topic or ongoing conversations with people following the topic.
Hindsight is easier on a target that stands still and less interesting too. We
can unveil the significance of long running stories in the stream of
consciousness format on HN or Reddit by revisiting stories that are repeatedly
relevant.
When I want information that transcends time I go to philosophers,
intellectuals, scientists, professionals in the field that have written years
of accumulated knowledge into a book. I don't see what a news article seeks to
provide that will age well. It's not aiming at creating information that ages
well.
------
kevmo314
This seems like it would be more useful to me as an email newsletter? At least
I don't think I'm going to remember visiting once a month... Convenient that
it's already js-free.
------
kuu
There are a lot of negatives comments on this article but somehow it reached
the front page. Interesting...
~~~
jrochkind1
I too am curious what quirk of the HN algorithm resulted in this on the front
page.
------
franky47
Interesting project, I like the Wisdom TL;DR Guide [1] (collection of quotes
and maxims) that comes with it.
[1] [https://github.com/slowernews/wisdom-tldr-
guide](https://github.com/slowernews/wisdom-tldr-guide)
~~~
pauletienney
Thank you for your comment. I would have missed it. I created a small
repository of quotes and display a random one each time I open a new Terminal
window. This list of quotes will perfectly complete my collection. Kudo to the
curator (op ?).
------
dt3ft
Shameless plug: I made 20-things.com in order to try and make something like
reddit but much slower. Limited to 20 things in a 24 hour period. Still work
in progress. Fishing for ideas and feedback.
~~~
dt3ft
Edit: today I noticed a bug where SMS was not being sent to US numbers because
they were being sent from alphanumeric "number" which is not supported. If you
tried to register, please try logging in again and you should receive the SMS
token.
------
Tepix
Looking at the articles I find a large percentage of them to be trivia.
If you just want the most significant news, reading Le Monde diplomatique
(english edition) will do it.
------
webscout
Recently subscribed to briefingday.com as recommended per Kevin Kelly.
Similar, "slow" approach, but comes as a daily newsletter.
------
AnyTimeTraveler
I like this. It does scratches my itch as well.
------
juliend2
It would be great to add an RSS feed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Ultimate Music Playlists for Programming - tmaly
I normally do not listen to music when I code as I am usually trying to do a lot of thinking in my head. However, there are times when there is just too much background noise to process. At other times where I know what I need to code, having music playing is not a problem.<p>I use the free version of spotify, but I would be open to any other platform if there is a really amazing playlist.<p>That being said, what is your ultimate music playlist for programming?
======
enkiv2
I recommend "Music For Programming", which is a series of (now 40+)
playlist/programmes collected by guest curators. (It's not on spotify &
probably won't be, for licensing reasons; you will need to actually download
the shows.)
------
CocoaGeek
[http://musicforprogramming.net/](http://musicforprogramming.net/)
------
geoffcorey
I rather enjoy SomaFM channels such as Groove Salad and Sounds of Goa. Few
other good channels in there as well to change it up
------
pizza
Mixes do just the same thing and are also more rich to enjoy. Cut Chemist's
"Fall Backwards" \- 90 mins, amazing
Floating Points and Four-Tet's Plastic People mix - 6hrs, also amazing
------
Hockey_Dino
We can create playlist for Programming in Spotify. Who is willing?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Greatest Keyboard of All Time Reborn (2018) [video] - CaliforniaKarl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM
======
i0exception
If you're interested in buying one of these, Unicomp
([https://www.pckeyboard.com](https://www.pckeyboard.com)) purchased the
rights to continue making Model M style keyboards once Lexmark removed them
from their line of products.
If you want to buy one of the originals,
[https://clickykeyboards.com](https://clickykeyboards.com) has them.
Also, the Model F
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard))
is considered by many as being superior to the Model M. IBM made far fewer
Model Fs compared to the Ms, so if you find one of these in the wild, it'll be
really expensive.
[https://www.modelfkeyboards.com](https://www.modelfkeyboards.com) is trying
to re-create the original Model F.
~~~
elric
While it's true that Unicomp have purchased all the rights and equipment to
make Model M keyboards, the quality doesn't seem to a candle to the original.
I managed to break two in the span of two years. At which point I gave up on
them and simply built my own. This could just have been catastrophically bad
luck. Or like Linus says in the video, maybe it has something to do with their
version being based on the newer, cheaper Lexmark version and not the IBM
original.
Model F was a very interesting keyboard. I was rather fond of the 24 function
keys on mine. And I now regret not having taken mine with me when I moved out
at age 18.
~~~
throw7
Same robustness issues with my unicomp. The alt and spacebar keys don't
register if not pressed a certain way (wonky)... all in about a year of use.
I still have a few model m's, but I got tired of not having a "windows" key,
so I gave it a shot and can't recommend them.
~~~
dlevine
I have a Unicomp, and my roommate spilled water on it once, which caused a
bunch of the keys to not register and required a rebuild (which cost almost as
much as a new keyboard).
------
kpgraham
I am typing this on a Model M. I wrote my first program in 1969 and I have
used every kind of keyboard since. I bought four Model Ms, new in the box,
about 10 years ago for $7 each. I expect them to last for the next 20 years
(if I live that long).
The keys are black from my fingers and some of the letters are partially worn
off.
The model M is the best keyboard that I have ever used.
~~~
mdip
I used to work with a guy who used the original Model M that he had with the
PC he was given in the late 80s/early 90s. It's survived multiple coffee
spills and at least one case where it was repeatedly picked up and bashed
against the desk out of frustration (both key-side down and up). You'll almost
certainly get that 20 years.
If you want to restore the keys -- and to be clear, I can't _honestly_
recommend this approach -- but I used to _bathe_ my Northgate Omnikey and
clean it with dish soap, followed by a trip to the oven on the equivalent of a
"keep warm" setting for a half-day. I was surprised that a lot of the
discoloration on the keys wasn't the usual plastic oxidation but was from the
oil and grime on my fingertips. It always came out shining and like-new --
partly because whatever they did to print the letters on the keys was very
resistant to being worn off. I did it about once every 2 years during the
decade and a half that I owned it and it was sold at an estate sale in perfect
working condition 15 years after that.
At least one person mentioned using a dishwasher. I've never tried it, and
would never do that to a modern keyboard, but I'd imagine the effects would be
similar with a whole lot less effort.
~~~
celestialcheese
LTT did a video testing out different cleaning methods - Surprisingly
keyboards in dishwasher with modern keyboards was safe.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgnF42ZoRSw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgnF42ZoRSw)
------
zevv
I can't help to just keep blatantly reposting this for each and every HN
article about buckle spring keyboards:
[https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring](https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring)
"This project emulates the sound of my old faithful IBM Model-M space saver
bucklespring keyboard while typing on my notebook, mainly for the purpose of
annoying the hell out of my coworkers."
Enjoy!
~~~
macjohnmcc
It would be fun to annoy others with it but the extra width of the keyboard
also comes with the annoyance that your mouse is further to the right as well.
I alternate between using my M and other mechanical keyboards (months between
switching) until my memory of the inconvenience of the mouse being further
away fades.
~~~
zevv
That is where the Model M "space saver" comes in:
[https://tinyurl.com/vcvkf8p](https://tinyurl.com/vcvkf8p)
~~~
ghaff
I have a WASD but same layout. I never used the numeric keyboard and it fits
on my keyboard tray with a big Mac trackpad much better than my previous full-
size mechanical keyboard did.
------
hazeii
To me (and it seems very much a personal opinion) not having an F-key array on
the left - as on the original AT keyboards - was one of the biggest losses
made during keyboard evolution. Depends on the software in use of course, but
being able to hit a modifier (Ctrl, Shift, Alt) and an F-key without
stretching is the reason I still use the old-style layout to this day.
------
mdip
Somewhat topic-adjacent -- I'm looking at getting a new keyboard. In my early
20s, I used this specific keyboard and while I liked it (as my other comment
points out), it's _super loud_.
Does anyone make a heavy mechanical keyboard with F-Keys on the left any
longer? It is a whole lot easier to land on the right F-key without looking
down when they're vertical on the left (just like it's easier to hit all the
numbers accurately on a number-pad vs. the top row). Being able to one-hand
CTRL/ALT+F-keys accurately, without looking, is somewhere between difficult
and impossible on modern keyboard designs.
The keyboard I grew up on, the Northgate Omnikey, was heavy, had left-oriented
F-Keys, and included replacement key caps for CTRL, ALT and CAPS LOCK (along
with a tool to remove the keys!) so that you could put CTRL where CAPS LOCK
typically is and ALT where CTRL typically is. It also had corresponding DIP
switches that controlled whether the keyboard sent CTRL or CAPS LOCK from that
position, so no monkeying around with driver software or OS configuration to
make your keyboard behave the way that the key caps indicated.
Are any of you using a board like this which is either USB or PS/2 and has
been manufactured in the last 5 years (or is still produced, new, today)?
~~~
cptnapalm
Unicomp makes one:
[https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A](https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A)
It will be gloriously clickity clackety.
------
znpy
Uh... I remember I saw that video in advance on Floatplane
([https://www.floatplane.com/](https://www.floatplane.com/)) and decided to
get an EnduraPro (Basically a ModelM + Trackpoint) from Unicomp.
I've used it for a while but then decided to put it away.
Two big problems:
1\. The trackpoint moves the cursor to the left just right, but it hits a key
when moving to the right. Basically it's super fast to move in one direction
and super-slow in the opposite. It got me crazy.
2\. The keys are immensely loud. Duh. I was expecting loud keys, but I didn't
expect that much loud. I am not kidding here: i decided to finally put away
the keyboard when, while typing on an afternoon, I hit the Enter key a bit
harder than usual and somehow I got pain in my right ear. I am not sure if
this was due to some vibration traveling back through my right arm or just
from noise, but man that did not feel good at all.
Oh... did I mention that thing is FU __ING MASSIVE? It 's HEAVY. HEAVY AS F
__K.
One of the Model-M disadvantages (that also affects a lot of mechanical
keyboards, but no one seems to care, apparenly) is that the key plane is
raised from where your palm usually rests, and the angle the key forms is not
negligible. One could probably get some kind of wrist strain by using it all
the day everyday.
And don't even get me started on the mess I had to do to have it shipped to
europe...
I have settled on an IBM SK-8845 keyboard at work and a ThinkPad USB
(x220-style) keyboard at home. They're both quieter, the trackpoint works a
lot better (the sk-8845 even has the touchpad), they're flatter and they both
have a very comfortable palmrest.
In the end, I don't completely regret buying the endura pro but I wouldn't buy
it again.
------
rudolfwinestock
For a moment, I thought that they were talking about this project:
[https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-
keyboard](https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard)
For those too lazy to click, it's a project to resurrect the Space Cadet
Keyboard. It's still in the planning stages.
------
petilon
To me the greatest keyboard of all time is Acer Future, seen in this picture:
[https://i.imgur.com/KIjOiuQ.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KIjOiuQ.jpg)
It is great because the trackpad is in the center of the keyboard, which means
you don't have to stretch your arm to use the mouse.
The keys feel nice and it is ergonomic. Sadly they stopped making these long
ago. Nothing like it is available in the market today.
~~~
buster
This looks quite a bit like my kinesis pro keyboard which I bought because of
CTS. I am thinking about putting a touchpad in the middle..
~~~
ianai
I have one there. Works well!
------
YZF
The history in the video doesn't ring quite right. The heritage of the PS/2
keyboard also relate to mainframe terminals (3270 and maybe 5250) which
predate the IBM PC and to the original IBM/AT keyboard which predates the
PS/2\. Presumably some of those have electric typewriter heritage as well. I
also think some of those older keyboards were nicer than the PS/2 IMNHO.
------
myrandomcomment
I still have a Model M attached to an older system that I use for playing with
different Linux distos on. The date stamp on the back says "28Nov88".
Today my is keyboard is a Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless (Japanese). I also
have the Flico "Genuine Wood" wrist rest. I ordered replacement keycaps to
match MacOS vs the default Windows keys (any replaced the Caplocks with Ctrl,
the way God intended it!). I have one on the desk at home and work. The
feeling is not quite as good as the Model M but it works well. Switches are
Cherry Brown (45g). The Model M is 70g IIRC.
If you are looking for a keyboard, Filco is worth trying. If you live in Japan
any of the big tech shops (Bic, etc) will have a ton on display with different
switches you can try out.
When I worked at IBM way back when, keyboards were a "green tagged" part vs. a
"red tagged part". Green = order as many as you want with no accounting/reason
for doing so. Red parts had to be accounted for (the $$$ stuff).
------
sleepybrett
to hell with the M.. my heart still lives with the F.
[https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/](https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/)
------
skocznymroczny
I've been on a mechanical keyboard adventure, and I realized most of them are
not for me. I don't have any nostalgia for the 80s keyboards, and I can't
stand tall keys anymore.
I am using a low-profile mechanical keyboard (Havit KB390L) and it's the only
mechanical keyboard that is usable for me.
However, it's likely my next keyboard will be scissor switch again. I will
probably go for Logitech MX Keys, seems to be the best option for premium
scissor switch keyboards.
~~~
jakear
I agree, it’s very difficult to go from my MBP butterfly keys to a mechanical.
On top of the enormous amount of travel required, I also would be forced to
use a mouse (or external trackpad), which is so much slower than having the
touchpad at my thumbs at all times.
Right now, I type quickly on the keyboard, and any time I need to use the
pointer all that’s required is a slight rotation of my right hand. Compare
that to all the mechanical keyboard folks in my office, who also type quickly,
but every cursor interaction is a movement of their entire arm. I don’t
understand how they’re okay with that.
Anyone know of a nice low profile mechanical with a built in trackpad?
~~~
dlevine
Unicomp makes a version that has a built in trackpoint and mouse buttons.
Haven't used it, though.
~~~
toast0
I've read that the trackpoint in the M13s (including the Unicomps) are one of
the earlier designs, and trackpoint enthusiasts prefer the newer versions.
That's as far as I went down that rabbit hole.
------
heybrandons
Dang, I was hoping for something newer. Model M's today are really hard to
work with. It take's majority of your desk space and then you have to use one
of those weird adapters that you will have to convert again to plug into most
computers. I use the happy hacking boards as they're pretty solid, take up
less space and still feel alright typing. Seeing the video does give me new
inspiration to go back to the model m though... Thanks for sharing!
------
thelazydogsback
On a related note, I just came across this: [https://www.amazon.com/Freewrite-
Distraction-Free-Typewriter...](https://www.amazon.com/Freewrite-Distraction-
Free-Typewriter-Frontlight-Mechanical/dp/B01GGE8CP8/ref=sr_1_54)
Looks like a good TRS-80 Model 100 replacement for writers. Although perhaps a
bit _too_ anachronistic as you can apparently only backspace!
------
jrockway
The model M is an interesting keyboard; the sound and tactility is great.
However, those keyswitches are quite heavy by modern standards and you may
find your fingers getting tired. The layout is also not amazing, and the
controller doesn't lend itself to much customizability.
If you work in an environment where loud keys are acceptable, you should try
the Kailh/Novelkeys "thick clicks": [https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-
x-kailh-box-thick-c...](https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-x-kailh-box-
thick-clicks) The sound and tactility on these switches is incredible.
I think a lot of people that are interested in mechanical keyboards think the
only options available are Cherry Browns, Cherry Blues, Topre, and buckling
springs... but the reality is that that is the tip of the iceberg. The new
designs in the Cherry form factor are much better than anything Cherry makes
or has ever made; so if you've tried those and didn't like them (I found them
distractingly scratchy and not very tactile; apparently a common complaint),
there are a lot of other options before you have to go to a finger-killing
model M.
I currently use an Ergodox EZ with Thick Clicks (Jade on the pinky keys, Navy
on everything else) and love it. It is the most tactile keyboard I have ever
used, and the sound is amazing. I also have an Ergodox EZ with Healios (silent
linear) switches and love those too. They are the smoothest and quietest
switches I have ever touched; it is almost distracting how smooth and silent
they are.
Anyway, there is a lot of good stuff out there and a lot of keyboards support
swapping switches without soldering now, so you can try them all. I think most
people will like a non-model-M board, simply because we can do so much better
now. If you've ever used Cherry switches and said "this is terrible" and
though that a model M was your only option for tactility; that's just not the
case anymore. There are hundreds of switches between Cherry Brown and buckling
spring now; one of them is likely to be "your thing".
Some switches I've used recently:
\- Hako True - these were designed to feel like Topre switches, but they don't
feel like Topre switches. They feel linear and get very heavy before
activation, so they don't feel good to type on to me. It just feels like
compressing a spring and maybe your key will be typed if you're lucky.
\- Novelkeys Box Royal - these are very tactile, but you can very strongly
feel the activation point and they feel like they want to get stuck there on
the way up. I used these as pinky keys for about a year and they just got
scratchier and scratchier until I felt the need to replace them. (Lube is
probably the correct fix, but I am too lazy to lube keyswitches.) They are
quite tactile, though. Interesting design, worth a try.
\- Hako Royal Clear - these are heavier Box Royals, I think, and I used them
for about a year as the non-pinky keys on the board with Box Royals. Pretty
tactile, but you can definitely feel some clickiness at the activation point
on the way up. They are not particularly quiet, but are a good switch to try
out.
\- Novelkeys Thick Clicks - very very very tactile, maybe the most tactile
switch I've ever used. Super loud. The Jades really do require you to remove
all force from the key to come back up; I notice this but it doesn't bother me
in any way. My favorite switch family by far, if you can live with the noise.
It's not "oh I can hear someone typing", it's "there is an earthquake nearby
we're all going to die" loud. Similar to buckling springs, but not as heavy.
Still on the heavy side, though, so if you like really light switches, they
are not for you. (If you like light switches, I think you are basically dead
with respect to tactile or clickiness, though; the tactile bump is always
going to be heavy.)
\- Healios - smoothest mechanism ever. Touching them makes you think they are
exuding quality. Silent on bottom-out and upstroke. Nobody will know you're
using a mechanical keyboard. They are perfect for gaming, and pretty good for
typing. (I'm using them right now.) They are very very light even though they
are sold as 67g switches. I had avoided linear switches because I thought I
needed the tactility to avoid bottoming out, but I was wrong. Worth a look.
There are also some good switches I haven't personally used; namely the
Zilents.
Anyway, my point is that you don't need to go full model M to get good
keyswitches. There are better boards and good switches around. Get a board
with "hot-swappable" switches and try some out, it's likely you'll be able to
build the perfect keyboard. You won't be stuck with a standard layout as you
are with Realforce or Model M boards, and you'll be able to use a firmware
like QMK to get a perfect layout. (For example, I have ({}) on the home row
activated by a thumb switch on the other hand. Must more comfortable for
coding than groping for all those keys with your pinky.)
~~~
mdip
Thanks for the write-up. I'm going to look into the Healios -- I've been
wanting a heavy, mechanical, keyboard but I'm in an open office environment
and don't want my co-workers to hate me.
On the fatigue side, it might be less of an issue than you expect after you
get used to it. In fact, I noticed that while my fingers are more tired when I
use a "heavy-switch" keyboard, my posture is better and my wrists hurt less. I
suspect that I'm positioning my wrists "more correctly" on the heavier keys
because it's necessary in order to still type at the same speed on them[0].
I think the main thing is to be consistent. I used to play piano and for about
two years after I moved in to my first apartment, I had to switch to a (non-
weighted) electronic keyboard due to budget/space. When I returned to a
regular upright, I couldn't actually _play_ a lot of the music I had learned
on the synth because I wouldn't apply enough pressure to result in a sound.
After about a month of regular practice, I ended up replacing the electronic
keyboard with a much more expensive one with weighted keys and never went
back.
[0] And as much as I try to be _really careful_ ... adjusting my typing
posture, consistently, would be about as difficult as adjusting the way I
walk, consistently. It's second-nature and burned into my brain. I'd only
adjust if I received a consistent reminder, like missing keypresses.
~~~
jrockway
I also find it hard to type on light switches. I feel like heavy switches save
me from a situation where my brain wants to type a letter, but upon feeling
the start of applying force, it thinks "that is not the letter you want". On
light switches, the key is registered before the feedback loop executes
completely. (I'm on a light keyboard right now and probably hit backspace 10
times typing those sentences.)
For me, the biggest thing to make typing feel comfortable was to not use weak
fingers constantly. I touch type, on qwerty, and certainly don't mind using my
pinkies to press qazp;/, because they don't come up very often. But getting
enter, backspace, and programming symbols off the pinkies made a huge
difference for me. That is why I recommend keyboards that use QMK or similar;
you have the power to move keys around and really get what's good for you. (I
also like the Ergodox because of the four extra keys activated by your pointer
finger, and the four big thumb keys for enter, space, and modifiers. Having
said that, I think the Ergodox layout is generally not that great; the small
keys around the big thumb keys are nearly impossible to press. I use them for
arrow keys, insert, delete, pg up, pg down... and never press them. I use
C-n/C-p/C-b/C-f for movement, don't use the delete key, and have a macro for
shift-insert. If those keys were removed from the board I wouldn't be sad at
all. They are just a waste of space and ~$10 worth of keyswitches.)
Edit: one other note, I'm actually using Roselios, not Healios:
[https://zealpc.net/collections/switches/products/roselios_sa...](https://zealpc.net/collections/switches/products/roselios_sakurios)
My understanding is that they are exactly identical except for the color of
the stem. I am not sure why people care about what color their keyswitches
are... I just bought what was in stock ;)
~~~
mdip
> I feel like heavy switches save me from a situation where my brain wants to
> type a letter, but upon feeling the start of applying force, it thinks "that
> is not the letter you want".
I've run into this, myself, but never thought about it being related to the
resistance of the switches. However, I'm convinced that's it after thinking
about it.
Related to this is the most _annoying_ thing I run into with my basic
keyboards is over-stretching for CTRL+V. I _always_ catch myself about 1/4 of
the way into pressing the key and instinctively adjust. On my mechanical with
decent resistance, my finger bounces off the `B`, lands on `V`, and everything
is fine. On my laptop keyboards, which have a varying degrees of "too short of
a distance" between pressed and not pressed (even my Thinkpad), this almost
_always_ results in the CTRL+B being hit immediately before the CTRL+V (lovely
bookmark pane, now _go away_!)
~~~
jrockway
C and V are definitely in weird places on staggered keyboards. Most "touch
typists" even use the wrong finger for C because it's in such a strange place.
You might like an "ortholinear" layout, which puts everything in a finger's
column in an actual column, making it very clear which finger is responsible
for which keys. Typing C/V/B feels a lot better, especially C.
The downside of trying an ortholinear keyboard is that there is some
significant adjustment time. I think it took me a about a month to switch from
a normal staggered 60% keyboard to an Ergodox EZ, and I have a lot of trouble
going back to a non-ortholinear layout. People on Reddit assure me I am an
idiot, though, so maybe it's just me.
I bring it up because the layout really does help with that lower row, and if
you are explicitly noticing mistyped keys there a lot, it might be worth
trying it out. You will never be able to use a laptop again, though, so it
might not be worth the cost.
------
ljm
I love these keyboards (and mechanical keyboards in general; the tactility and
sensitivity is so satisfying). I just wish there was a silent option that
wasn't still loud as fuck.
The main problem is that noise isolating/cancelling cans won't protect you
from the clackety-clack, which for a lot of people can be as infuriating as
listening to someone eating loudly.
~~~
NeedMoreTea
Back in the 80s when everyone in the office was using one, no one apparently
cared or noticed the noise. Though we didn't have everyone hiding behind cans
and there was often a bit of a coffee shop lite buzz of background chatter.
I think everyone got over sensitive about it as we all hide behind a playlist.
~~~
bsder
> Back in the 80s when everyone in the office was using one, no one apparently
> cared or noticed the noise.
Remember what the alternative was back then ... a bunch of people using
_typewriters_.
Compared to typewriters these keyboards are a massive improvement in noise.
~~~
NeedMoreTea
True, though I was more thinking of the computing context, where what went
before might have been a VT100 or 52, maybe a Wyse or IBM.
------
Kaibeezy
I miss having the function keys on the left, Word Perfect 1987-style.
ETA: Aha!
[https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A](https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A)
~~~
mdip
Yes, _please_. It's so much easier to hit the right F-Key (without looking
down), especially when combined with ALT/CTRL, when they're on the left. I
wish this was still an option these days.
Thanks for the link. Damn, I haven't seen a 122 key keyboard since the 80s!
~~~
Kaibeezy
Right? Right? It was like playing chords on a piano, or maybe like those rows
of buttons on an accordion. Top row F keys, feh!
------
unixhero
This wacky and fun chemistry PhD reviews keyboards.
His reviews are highly relevant for this thread:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22](https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22)
------
seanmcdirmid
I miss my Model M, having gotten rid of it in 2016 because I knew no open
office outside of China would accept me using one. Now I just use a das with
the quieter cherry switches, it feels so inferior.
------
Finnucane
This is making me miss the Northgate Omnikey keyboard I had 30 years ago.
~~~
mdip
I think every one of my comments has mentioned this keyboard. IMO, it's the
best keyboard that was ever made and I'm seriously considering buying one on
ebay (along with all of the stuff required to plug it in to current hardware).
------
ChuckMcM
I have an M13 made in 1994 by Lexmark. It is distinguished by having the track
point built into the keyboard. I do prefer its feel over that of 'modern'
mechanical keyboards.
------
mdip
I just saw one of these on Craigslist. I used one of these for years at my
first "real job" and loved it, but _wow_ is it noisy.
In the 90s, my dad and I built custom (higher-end) PCs for small businesses
and individuals. We carefully weeded out parts that we didn't like and put a
high priority on excellent displays[1], good keyboards and mice[2]. To this
day, I'm surprised at how little thought is paid to such a critical input
device. And it's not that users don't care about it, it's almost like it was
forgotten.
My personal preference, in this category, though was the Northgate Omnikey[0].
It was a multi-platform keyboard that was able to be plugged in to an AT/XT,
Amiga and a few others. The model I had was left-oriented F-keys (I miss
that!) and included extra keys and tools so that you could put the CTRL where
"Caps Lock" was, and "alt" where the left CTRL was, which was how we
configured them ... no more accidental CAPS LOCK hits when aiming for "A".
Unfortunately, my parents sold it in an estate sale a while back. I doubt they
got anywhere near the $100-$200 that these sell for when functional (depending
on condition ... most are _very_ yellow due to the plastic oxidizing but you
can still find some that maintain their gray-white/blue color). Pretty rare to
find a keyboard that resells for about the price they were new (sans
inflation).
I'd put the IBM at a very close second. The Northgate was easily on par as far
as "feel" was concerned, but the IBM keyboards had this _loud_ "ping" sound
that sort-of rang after a key was pressed (springs), which the Omnikey lacked.
I couldn't own a keyboard like that if I wanted to continue programming since,
at the time, most of my programming[4] was done between midnight and 3:00 AM
with fleeting parental approval (fleeting ... if I woke them up).
I feel that keyboard quality is something that manufacturers have missed the
ball on -- especially on notebooks. This Christmas I picked out a Thinkpad for
my parents. They love it. My Dad now wants a new desktop keyboard, though,
because he _really likes_ the Thinkpad keyboard. I was a little puzzled -- his
current board feels _exactly the same_ to my fingers. After thinking about it
for a bit, I'm fairly certain I know where the problem is: despite the same
feel, his desktop keyboard weighs almost nothing. Every time you touch a key,
or even reach out for it, it slides a little. So every few sentences, you're
re-positioning the keyboard. At my typing speed, this means repositioning the
keyboard _constantly_.
It makes me wonder if in all of this effort to make things lighter and more
portable, the industry miscalculated by applying that logic to peripheral
keyboards. I'd prefer my keyboard to weight twice as much as my current
laptop. To me, I'd rather have a keyboard heavier than a notebook PC. Between
the two I use most regularly, one is wired, the other is wireless, both would
move with a reasonable gust of wind. Why do I care if it's convenient to carry
when it _never leaves my desktop_? There's much greater value is in it staying
put while I use it. At my office, several developers I work with have
purchased their own keyboards. Some of it is "cool factor", but one thing I
found consistently about the boards they've chosen -- _All_ of them weigh in
at 3 times the weight of the typical $15 board and most have sticky rubber
feet. About half hadn't realized the difference until I pointed it out. I even
had one co-worker that got upset at the realization -- he'd narrowed the
choice down to 2 keyboards and opted for the lighter one. I made him unhappy
with his decision. Oops!
[0]
[https://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey/101](https://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey/101)
[1] I can't remember the brand, but nearly every computer monitor was XGA 14";
we only sold 16+" and went with Trinitron models and models with similar
technology (at the time, I think Sony had an active patent on the technology,
but we had quality issues so we switched to a different brand that I assume
didn't work exactly like the Trinitron, but still had the color clarity).
[2] We never found a mouse worth a damn -- we experimented with an early model
of ball-free mice, but it was trash.
[3] I'm sure there's an intelligent, technical, term for that but I don't care
to search for it.
[4] I was writing a BBS from scratch in Borland/Turbo Pascal after deciding to
toss out the code from my Telegard hack. I've actually tried to revisit that
using SSH as transport (instead of dial-up) but ran out of motivation.
~~~
baylisscg
WRT [1]. Mitsubishi’s Diamondtron was the other one. Pretty much the only way
to get a flat fronted CTR at the time.
~~~
mdip
Those were excellent and I know we used them at one point. I want to say the
brand we settled on in the final years of the business was a Nokia 17" that
used a -tron variant. I'm not positive[0]. I had one of those from the mid-90s
until around 2010 as a second screen. The color quality on this display
spoiled me. I could never find a flat panel that produced such deep blacks and
bright whites. When you'd drag a photo from the CRT to any of the flat-panels,
it looked like you applied a filter to mute all of the colors a bit. It was
completely functional when I recycled it and I'd never had an issue with the
thing in the 12-15 years or so that I owned it.
[0] I tried to find the model with a quick Google Image search, and this looks
familiar: [https://www.recycledgoods.com/nokia-17-crt-monitor-svga-
mode...](https://www.recycledgoods.com/nokia-17-crt-monitor-svga-
model-447l-447l058/)
------
bullen
I feel rick-rolled, please warn about linking to Linus, I only open his videos
in incognito mode!
~~~
logicallee
Why?
~~~
tasssko
His isn’t that interested in the content and doesn’t want his feed to end up
with perpetual LTT recommendations.
~~~
logicallee
oh OK.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
It’s 2010 and Canadians pay the highest cell phone bills in the world - mgrouchy
http://wirelessnorth.ca/2010/08/27/its-2010-and-canadians-pay-the-highest-cell-phone-bills-in-the-world/
======
dstein
Having lived in the US for many years and then returning to Canada recently,
it is absolutely stunning how few people here have cell phones. The primary
reason is in the US, nation-wide plans are standard, whereas in Canada they
simply do not exist. So you pay long distance for calling from one small city
to another small city which drives the price of cell phones through the roof.
Even if someone does own a cell phone, there is stigma attached to using it --
"can I call you back on a landline..." sounds ridiculously archaic in 2010.
The top iPhone plan ($100/mo) includes 500 local minutes:
[http://mobilebusiness.bell.ca/rate-plans/combo-plans-for-
iph...](http://mobilebusiness.bell.ca/rate-plans/combo-plans-for-iphone)
Here's the competition ($80 for 400 min.):
[http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_page...](http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=WLRS_Plans)
The Canadian telecommunication industry is a cartel by any definition.
------
DanHulton
On a similar tangent, I'm actually travelling to the states for PAX coming up
next week, and I tried to get something set up for roaming data with my
carrier, Virgin:
[http://www.danhulton.com/blog/2010/08/26/mitigating-
exhorbit...](http://www.danhulton.com/blog/2010/08/26/mitigating-exhorbitant-
us-data-roaming-rates-on-virgin-mobile-canada/)
The short of it is, I have to pay $6 per MEGABYTE of roaming data I accrue,
even if it's on Viring US's network. And I'm _LUCKY_. If I didn't have a
smartphone, I could be paying $15 for the first megabyte, and $0.05 per
_KILOBYTE_ thereafter.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A superconducting shield for astronauts - user_235711
http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2015/08/superconducting-shield-astronauts
======
ChuckMcM
_" Captain, magnetic shields at 50%! We've got to pull back."_ \-- some future
space traveler.
I remember some interesting discussions about magnetic shields in the NASA
technical journal, but there were issues with things like electronics inside
the shield and conductive cabling going through it to sensors outside of it.
Even in the more detailed site
([http://www.sr2s.eu/2013-08-01-15-34-14](http://www.sr2s.eu/2013-08-01-15-34-14))
I didn't see a lot of info on those sorts of "known" issues.
------
InclinedPlane
This appears to be merely a mag-sail, but used as a radiation shield.
It seems to be in every way inferior to the m2p2 concept, which uses a mini-
magnetosphere (instead of just a magnetic field) for the same purpose [1]. The
advantage being that we could build and field such systems using existing
technology at reasonable cost.
1:
[http://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/space/M2P2/rad.shielding....](http://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/space/M2P2/rad.shielding.pdf)
------
curtis
Just out of curiosity, I wonder if it would be possible to embed the
superconducting magnets in a spaceship's liquid hydrogen tank. This would
eliminate the need for "exotic" high temperature superconductors.
~~~
jccooper
A long-range spacecraft would probably not have LH2 on board. It evaporates
quite quickly unless you want to install cryo cooling systems and the power to
run them.
~~~
curtis
Boil-off is a bigger problem with LH2 than with liquid oxygen or liquid
methane. However, I'm under the impression that it's a tractable problem out
to months or maybe even years. Apparently the Spitzer Space Telescope
maintained a supply of liquid helium for about five years [1][2].
A lot of Mars manned-mission proposals (starting with Zubrin's Mars Direct
plan) depend on the use of a Sabatier reaction which would convert hydrogen
brought from Earth into Methane and Oxygen. So the experts must think they can
at least minimize boil-off over at least 8 or 9 months. [3]
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitzer_Space_Telescope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitzer_Space_Telescope)
[2] [http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/news/436-ssc2009-12-NASA-s-
Sp...](http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/news/436-ssc2009-12-NASA-s-Spitzer-
Begins-Warm-Mission)
[3] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-
situ_resource_utilization#M...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-
situ_resource_utilization#Mars)
~~~
jccooper
Mars Direct uses suspiciously low boil-off rates for LH2. Certainly well past
current state of the art. Best achievable (not flown, but could be) is
0.1%/day, and Mars Direct wants 0.1%/month. You don't lose a lot at 0.1%/day,
but it adds up.
~~~
curtis
At 0.1% per day, I get 30% boil-off in 1 year (0.999 ^ 365 ==> 0.694), which
is expensive but probably still a net win. I don't think boil-off is a problem
once you're on Mars because you can probably just use the hydrogen gas as
feedstock into the Sabatier process.
Which is not to say that Mars Direct isn't overly optimistic, possibly about
many other things as well.
------
louithethrid
Now, if you would please strip your spacestation of all metalls and arrange
for propulsion to counter the small drag of earths magnetosphere upon the
system...
Or are the magnetic fields generated and the corresponding heat from induced
eddys not so strong? The sceptic in me wants to know more before feeling
optimistic..
Supraconducting magnets allready exist in Magnetic Resonance Tomography and
the idea of a cookoff in space after a micro asteroid impact...
------
krohling
Is power consumption a problem here? It seems like power production on a space
craft would be quite limited (solar, plutonium?) and this thing would consume
a lot of it. Is the idea that this would always be on or only on in an
emergency? Also, is interference w/ electronics on the craft a problem?
~~~
jccooper
It's easier to supply power than mass in space, and mass shielding is the
alternative.
Solar is problematic on Earth but is actually quite good in space. Lots of
reliable energy right there, especially if you're not in Earth orbit (where
the shadow occasionally gets you).
~~~
Quanticles
If you're in deep space then you're not near any particular star. That's going
to reduce the available starlight by several orders of magnitude, right?
~~~
jccooper
When people designing real spaceships say "deep space" they mean "beyond Earth
orbit", but usually not past Mars.
In sci-fi deep space, yes, you'd have next to no solar power. (In fact, it's
minimally useful in the solar system past Jupiter.) But if you can get there
at all, you're probably not worried about that.
~~~
Quanticles
Makes sense, thanks
------
ars
Is it possible to make a magnetic configuration that will repel all charged
particles?
Won't particles moving in the right direction be attracted and you'll
irradiate everyone inside when they slam into the shield, with some extra
energy from it?
~~~
Steuard
The nice thing about magnetic fields is that _all_ charged particles are
deflected: the positive ones bend one way, and the negative ones bend the
other.
In a lot of situations, the particles will actually spin along helical paths
whose net motion is _along_ the magnetic field lines. In the case of Earth,
that means that the charged particles eventually make their way to one or the
other pole... and as the field lines descend into the atmosphere, those
particles create auroras. Neat stuff!
~~~
euyyn
That's why the comment you've replied to says "particles with the right
direction", not "particles with the right charge".
------
the8472
I wonder how much cooling superconductors need in space.
Basically, how warm is the interior of a satellite with a high albedo (gold
foil?) in the inner solar system?
~~~
delibes
Thermal management in space is a big issue. The ISS has big radiators on the
long truss, and lots of plumbing for cooling.
For a superconducting magnetic shield, it depends how much power is used to
maintain it. MgB2 supports high currents compared to cuprates, so I guess once
it's turned on it doesn't need much?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Leaving Toxic Open Source Communities - luu
http://www.modelviewculture.com/pieces/leaving-toxic-open-source-communities
======
breadbox
Sigh, the classic justification for toxic behavior. "Oh, we need to have
absolute freedom to verbally abuse anyone who disagrees with us, so that we
can have a truly open dialogue."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Serverless Calculator: Should Your EC2 Be a Lambda? - kolanos
https://servers.lol/#/
======
jacquesm
Recently seen:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15925736](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15925736)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: quickest, most dependable way to solve the money problem? - yters
The criteria for me are merely: stay warm, have somewhere to sleep, get enough healthy food, and have 24 hour completely open access to an internet enabled computer.
======
breck
Move to California. It's awesome out here. Opportunity abounds to create your
ideal lifestyle.
------
oldgregg
I've heard Buenos Aires is nice.
~~~
yters
I'm guessing most people here also want a high standard of living along with
financial freedom.
Has this question been asked before and I missed it? Seems like something
everyone here would be interested in.
For what its worth, this is a little research I've done:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=122341>
~~~
jacobscott
What is consensus on health care? I can't be the only person worried about
getting some weird disease in a country far far away.
Also language issues?
~~~
jhancock
What kind of weird disease from far far away do you think you might get? I"ve
lived in China for 8 years, am 40 years old now and have never contracted
anything that I also couldn't contract in the U.S. Live healthy and smart and
you mostly stay healthy.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Beefing up the Python Shell to build apps faster and DRYer - bjpless
http://benplesser.com/2013/01/10/beefing-up-the-python-shell-to-build-apps-faster-and-dryer/
======
stcredzero
To make this even more robust, steal a clever mechanism from Smalltalk -- the
Change Log. Basically, all code changes and basically all of the manual
manipulation of state was kept in a transactional log, so you could be as
daring as you'd like with exploratory programming without the fear of losing
any code. (Mandatory for Smalltalk, because all coding was interactive runtime
exploratory programming.)
For iPython, you'd want to implement one change log per source file, so for a
source.py file, there'd be a source.py.log file in the same directory. Runtime
changes would first write a patch to the source.py.log file at parse/compile
time. Then if you ever crash iPython after doing an hour of exploratory
coding, iPython could reload your changes after the source.py file. (Actually,
you'd want a little ui to come up, giving you the option of leaving off the
last few changes, so you can omit something that causes a crash.)
~~~
voltagex_
Would automating Git be too slow?
~~~
stcredzero
There are problems with writing back out to source files and keeping pointers
in source files from debugging sessions indexed correctly. The change log
mechanism handily avoids this.
------
klibertp
There is also a wonderful extension to IPython, namely autoreload:
[http://ipython.org/ipython-
doc/dev/config/extensions/autorel...](http://ipython.org/ipython-
doc/dev/config/extensions/autoreload.html)
I use it with level 1 and %aimport magic all the time and it's really sweet,
especially with %ed. It probably does not work well with Django models
however. You could use deep_reload: [http://ipython.org/ipython-
doc/stable/api/generated/IPython....](http://ipython.org/ipython-
doc/stable/api/generated/IPython.lib.deepreload.html) but I'm not sure if it
would be enough.
~~~
aidos
Erm, wow. I didn't even know about IPython extensions. Or %ed for that matter.
Great tips, thanks!
EDIT: You seriously just changed my life with %autoreload
------
JulianWasTaken
If your interpreter takes 3 seconds to start up there's something seriously
wrong. Hopefully that's taking into account the human time to hit ^D and an up
arrow, plus whatever time it takes to do all your imports or whatever.
Assuming that was what was meant, then you probably really just want to learn
about `python -i`.
I agree that the real solution here is "write unit tests", but even if you
_like_ an interactive interpreter, seriously, just restart it, it should take
a half a second at most (and yes, reload() is broken by design, though
sometimes it happens not to matter).
~~~
bjpless
3 seconds includes closing AND starting the IPython shell. Typing "exit" or
ctrl + d + return adds a little time and is generally annoying.
The builtin Python shell is admittedly faster to start/stop but IPython's
features rock.
~~~
JulianWasTaken
Ah, OK, fair enough.
FWIW you might also like checking out <https://github.com/ludios/Pyquitter>. I
use it occasionally when I want something like this, you could rig it to start
iPython's main().
It also doesn't use inotify but that'd be fairly trivial to add.
~~~
bjpless
Ah I like it, thanks. From a quick glance, it seems like it just restarts the
entire child process on change.
The big (but admittedly) dangerous feature of my script is that you can
maintain state inside of the embedded shell on module reload.
I like pyquitter looks like a cool generalization, though, of the basic idea.
------
ianb
I think doctest and a UI around the doctest concept (there have been a couple)
is a better approach. There was one whose name I can't remember –
r...something. Unfortunately it used wxWindows, and was a pain to install...
native UIs suck.
But with a Doctest model you just develop a script, and if you change
something rerun the script, starting where you left off (assuming the script
reruns – if it doesn't then you probably want to start where it fails). You
can extend the script without reloading still, but changing the past requires
starting over... but it's just CPU cycles, assuming you aren't doing something
computationally expensive. But even if so, you could have a kind of cross-
session Pickling memoize function if you don't want to recalculate things.
These reloading tricks are fragile and break in weird ways, like it won't fix
badly initialized data, or classes that can't be upgraded because of state
changes. It leads ultimately to a distrust of the environment, until you throw
your hands up and go back to the old restart-frequently model like everyone
else. Recursive reloading certainly isn't new, but it's never satisfying.
------
tbatterii
seems a hard way to go to not write unit tests. FWIW, I use the shell too for
exploratory coding but the moment that I find myself making changes and
restarting the shell, chances are it's time to write it in a unit test.
~~~
bjpless
I write unit tests. This is still very useful to me...sometimes even in the
process of writing those tests.
~~~
AnIrishDuck
I usually just drop into pdb wherever I want to prototype my tests.
~~~
lost-theory
Yes, especially with nose's --pdb and --pdb-failures options.
~~~
tbatterii
or in ipython just type pdb
------
juiceandjuice
Or, you know, you could try not reinventing the wheel and use emacs.
~~~
pyre
How does emacs deal with:
| Django models.py modules can’t be reloaded
| normally due to the AppCache singleton
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Discovery In The High School Webcom Case: Guess What - joe_the_user
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/webcamscanda/
======
nearestneighbor
> which provides students from its two high schools free MacBooks
Can MacBooks have their webcams activated without the light turning on?
~~~
potatolicious
No, AFAIK the students were informed that it was a glitch. No webcam LED was
circumvented.
~~~
jjs
You'd think they would have noticed...
<http://imgur.com/hJ38i.jpg>
<http://imgur.com/b0KjN.jpg>
------
zoba
The IT administrator in question is female, evidently? Not was I was expecting
for a number of reasons...
"The lawsuit said the administrator, who has been placed on paid leave,
“invokes the Fifth Amendment to every question asked of her, including a
question asked as to whether she had ever downloading (sic) pictures to her
own computer, including pictures of students who were naked while in their
home.”"
------
joe_the_user
District claimed it only activated cameras in case of a stolen laptop. The
picture in the article page that shows the kid sleeping kind of blows that
claim.
I'm wondering why all the people who did this are apparently still employed by
the district. The _preponderance_ of evidence seems to be in.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Astronomy Picture of the Day - tambourine_man
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
======
rainbowpony
Not a picture. No flash here. No dice.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google and Red Hat announce cloud-based scalable file servers - Sami_Lehtinen
http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com/2016/02/Google-and-Red-Hat-announce-cloud-based-scalable-file-servers.html
======
justinclift
Heyas,
Ex-GlusterFS person here (used to work at Red Hat on the project side, leaving
mid last year).
"Small file access", and "lots of files in a directory" have been a pain point
with GlusterFS for ages. The 3.7.0 release had some important improvements in
it, specificially designed to help fix that:
[https://www.gluster.org/community/documentation/index.php/Fe...](https://www.gluster.org/community/documentation/index.php/Features/Feature_Smallfile_Perf)
The latest Gluster release is 3.7.8 (the same series as 3.7.0), and is worth
looking at if you're needing a good distributed file system. If you have
something like 1Mill files in a single directory though... hrmmm... NFS or
other technologies might still be a better idea. ;)
~~~
DannoHung
What makes having a lot of files in a directory a hard problem?
~~~
notacoward
Hi. I'm one of the GlusterFS developers. Hi, Justin. ;)
The basic answer to your question is that _networks are slow_ compared to
local storage. In order to get decent performance, you must either avoid
network round trips or amortize their cost over many operations. We - not just
GlusterFS but distributed filesystems in general - can do this pretty well for
some operations. We can batch, buffer, cache, etc. This works great for plain
old reads and writes to large files (for example). It doesn't work so well for
operations that have to touch many small files. For those, in order to ensure
the required level of consistency/currency, we have two choices.
(1) Send a request per file to get current metadata.
(2) Cache metadata, and participate in some sort of consistency protocol to
make sure we don't serve stale cached information.
Both approaches have workloads where they perform better and workloads where
they perform worse. In addition, the second approach adds _a lot_ of
complexity, especially in a system where failures are common and a loosely
coordinated set of servers must respond (systems with a single master server
have an easier time here but are less resilient). The inherent difficulty of
this approach is why e.g. CephFS has taken so long to mature.
GlusterFS took the first route instead. It does mean that "ZOT" (Zillions Of
Tiny files) workloads will perform poorly. I won't deny that. On the other
hand, it's easier to test or prove correct, and the time not spent on solving
the hard version of that problem - often for little eventual benefit - can
instead be spent on other kinds of improvements. Some people are happy with
that. Some are not. Some spread FUD. Some try to implement the practical
equivalent of a distributed filesystem on top of some alternative (e.g. object
stores) with their own even more serious limitations, and experience even more
pain as a result. Some are initially unhappy with these tradeoffs, but work
with us and learn to work more effectively with these limitations to enjoy
other benefits. That's life in the big city.
~~~
justinclift
Thanks for clearing that up, that's awesome. :)
------
gamegod
I worked with a GlusterFS deployment in production about 2 years ago, and it
was such a nightmare that I both feel compelled to write about it and never
touch anything made by that team ever again.
It was the whole shebang: Kernel panics, inconsistent views, data loss, very
slow performance, split-brain problems all the time. Our set up IIRC was very
simple: two bricks in a replicated volume. It worked so poorly that we had to
take it out of production. Some of our experience can be explained by
GlusterFS performing poorly under network partitions, but nothing could
justify kernel panics. It blew my mind that Redhat acquired that company and
product.
Edit: I hope there's been a big improvement to the reliability and performance
of GlusterFS. Can anyone with more recent experience running it in production
comment?
~~~
illumin8
I'm not a GlusterFS expert, and haven't used it before, but you should know
that most consensus algorithms (Paxos, Raft, etc) only function reliably with
an odd number of nodes. I have to wonder if your problems were mostly self-
inflicted from having 2 nodes. Of course, any network partition in a 2-node
cluster has a huge potential for data corruption, as each node now thinks it
is the master (split-brain).
In a 3-node cluster, any system with a decent consensus algorithm (to be
clear, I'm not sure if GlusterFS has one) would know that during a partition
the cluster can only continue to operate if at least 2 nodes can communicate
with each other to elect a new master.
~~~
oh_sigh
But then in a split with a 3-node cluster, there is now a 2-node cluster in
charge, and what happens if another partition happens?
~~~
illumin8
Typically, clusters without a majority (2 out of 3, 3 out of 5, 4 out of 7,
etc) of nodes present will shut themselves down to prevent data corruption.
------
pilif
Last time I tried GlusterFS was in 2012. The way it worked was very impressive
back then and I would have loved to actually put it into production.
Unfortunately, I hit a roadblock in relation to enumeration of huge
directories: Even with just 5K files in a directory, performance started to
drop really badly to the point where enumerating a directory containing 10K
files would take longer than 5 minutes.
Yes. You're not supposed to store many files in a directory, but this was
about giving third parties FTP upload access for product pictures and I can't
possibly ask them to follow any schema for file and folder naming. These
people want a directory to put stuff to with their GUI FTP client and they
want their client to be able to not upload files if the target already exists.
So having all files in one directory was a huge improvement UX-wise.
So in the end, I had to move to nfs on top of drbd to provide shared backend
storage. Enumerating 20K files over NFS still isn't fast but completes within
2 seconds instead of more than 5 minutes.
Of course, now that we're talking about GlusterFS, I wonder whether this has
been fixed since?
~~~
mikaelj
Couldn't your FTP server have handled this in a clever way? For example, sort
in directories by first letter, then by first two letters. While still
providing a virtual flat view to the FTP client user. It'd be a simple mapping
away.
~~~
pilif
You assume I wanted to write an FTP server.
I don't. I am using stock vsftp with a PAM module that allows authentication
against our web application.
------
prohor
I'm not sure what is announced here. Gluster FS is for few years already
(version 3.6 now), while the article doesn't mention that there is started any
managed service based on it. It is more like reminder that you can set up
distributed file system on your cloud servers using Gluster. Not even any
step-by-step tutorial how to do that.
~~~
baldfat
> Google Cloud Platform and Red Hat are proud to announce the availability of
> Red Hat Gluster Storage on Google Compute Engine.
Gluster is available not announcing that this is a new technology.
~~~
prohor
How this availability will be implemented then? I can install it now, so it is
already available for me. Will they provide a service like Amazon Elastic File
System? Or there will be some pre-configured images?
~~~
bonzini
On AWS you get pre-configured AMIs, I suppose it's similar.
------
goodcjw2
Basically, GlusterFS is trying to solve a hard problem: make
distributed/remote filesystem to feel like a local filesystem for applications
built on top of it. For the client, you can choose from NFS, SMB or its
homemake fuse client, which makes the remote system accessible as if
everything is on local file system. I used to build similar systems in house
and find it extremely painful to design and maintain, we did lots of custom
hacks to make our system to suit our need. GlusterFS, as a general solution,
won't have that much flexibility and may or may not suit your custom needs.
Overall, I feel AWS S3 is a better (or at least simpler) approach. Just
acknowledge that files are not locally stored and use them as is. AWS is
experimenting EFS as well, which we found not as desirable as well.
Edit: I am not saying that you cannot make GlusterFS or EFS perform great. My
appoint it that it's hard to do so, and might not worth the effort to develop
such a system given that S3 can serve most needs of distributed file storage.
~~~
spydum
aren't you comparing apples to oranges? S3 is an object store (and non POSIX..
Also only eventually consistent).. GlusterFS is neither of those. They simply
solve different problem spaces
~~~
ej_campbell
Parent is saying that it might be simpler for many applications to forgo the
need for a file system abstraction and just use S3's more limited API
directly. That way, you don't get bit by thorny edge cases like "ls" of 10K
files taking orders of magnitude more time than you'd expect give you're used
to the speed of a local disk.
------
Beldur
Red Hat announcement: [http://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/red-hat-
unveil...](http://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/red-hat-unveils-
flexible-and-portable-cloud-storage-red-hat-gluster-storage-google-cloud-
platform)
------
chatmasta
I needed a shared volume across multiple EC2 instances in a VPC. My use case
is that multiple "ingress" boxes write files to the shared volume, and then a
single "worker" box processes those files. This is a somewhat unusual use case
in that it means one box is responsible for 99% of IO heavy operations, and
the other boxes are responsible only for writing to the volume, with no
latency requirements.
My solution was to mount an EBS on the "worker box," along with an NFS server.
Each "ingress box" runs an NFS client that connects to the server via its
internal VPC IP address, and mounts the NFS volume to a local directory. It
works wonderfully. In three months of running this setup, I've had no downtime
or issues, not even minor ones. Granted I don't need any kind of extreme I/O
performance, so I haven't measured it, but this system took less than an hour
to setup and fit my needs perfectly.
~~~
helper
Amazon now has an NFS service (in preview release) called EFS:
[https://aws.amazon.com/efs/](https://aws.amazon.com/efs/)
------
Nux
Gluster is not for the faint of heart, but as far as distributed filesystems
go it's probably the easiest to set up and deal with.
We've been using it in production for a few years now and having a single
namespace that can basically grow ad infinitum has been pretty neat.
If you want a trouble free Gluster experience stay away from MANY small files
and replicated volumes.
------
cgarrigue
It's a bit light for a press release. Considering RedHat is officially
promoting AWS on their website, providing more information to let people know
whether the offering on Google Cloud will be better or similar would have been
better.
~~~
justinclift
Yeah, it seems to be missing the "click here for next steps / further
information" bit, which is less than optimal. :(
~~~
milesward
Disclaimer: I work on GCP Yup, we goofed. Here's the next step bits:
[https://cloud.google.com/solutions/filers-on-compute-
engine](https://cloud.google.com/solutions/filers-on-compute-engine)
~~~
justinclift
Ugh. So it's literally still RH Gluster, needing manual setup.
Also, there's a sentence on the end of the GlusterFS section there saying:
"If you want to deploy a Red Hat Gluster Storage cluster on Compute Engine,
see this white paper for instructions on how to provision a multi-node cluster
that includes cross-zone and cross-region replication:"
Apart from the typo (pedant alert!), the URL on "white paper" goes to a non-
public document only Red Hat subscribers have access to. That should probably
be that fixed, so non-Red-Hat-subscribers can read the doc and know what
they'll need to do up front.
If people need to subscribe to RH in order to get that info... just to know
what they need to do... that's probably going to hinder adoption. Potentially
by a lot. ;)
------
jqueryin
Before reading the article, I was going to ask if it solves the "high read
access of many small files" I/O problem, but alas, it's on GlusterFS, so only
insomuch as Gluster has been making improvements these last few minor
releases.
Is anyone here running a GlusterFS setup with high read/write volume on small
files successfully? If so, what's your secret?
------
objectivefs
If you are looking for a POSIX compatible file system for GCE or EC2, we think
our ObjectiveFS[1] is the easiest way to get started and use. It is a log
structured filesystem using GCS or S3 for backend storage and with a ZFS like
interface to manage your filesystems.
[1] [https://objectivefs.com](https://objectivefs.com)
------
godzillabrennus
Glad to see Gluster is still making waves. I was an early customer. It's
impressive when a brand survives acquisition much less a transition into a new
type of offering like this. Kudos to everyone who helped make Gluster special!
------
melted
I wonder why they even did this. They already have a state of the art
distributed filesystem (Colossus) which doesn't have any scalability problems
at all, since they use it for everything.
[http://www.highlyscalablesystems.com/3202/colossus-
successor...](http://www.highlyscalablesystems.com/3202/colossus-successor-to-
google-file-system-gfs/)
~~~
wmf
Can you mount Colossus? Does it have POSIX semantics?
~~~
melted
I'm sure this could be retrofitted even if it does not.
------
profeta
you can see why google is such a good marketing company. None of the links in
the article is not to their own products.
So, here is the link to the star of the show:
[https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/storage/gluster](https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/storage/gluster)
------
amelius
I'm wondering if there exist better (simpler) solutions than GlusterFS for the
case where files are strictly write-once.
------
jpgvm
GlusterFS is basically synonymous with pain. Use at your own peril.
------
stevenking86
nice
------
secopdev
pricing?
~~~
milesward
Disclaimer: I work on GCP. GlusterFS works best on RHEL, and consumes normal
GCP resources like GCE and PD-SSD storage. To host a rocking fast, best
practices, HA, 3TB all-SSD filer, it'd be less than $900 on GCP:
[https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator/#id=e76e9a5a-bf...](https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator/#id=e76e9a5a-bf21-4ccd-9cab-5590c77394db)
------
thrownaway2424
I see that the GlusterFS FAQ says it is fully POSIX compliant. That's a pretty
good trick. Ten years ago or so I had a suite of compliance tests I would use
to embarrass salesmen from iBrix and Panasas. The only actually POSIX-
compliant distributed filesystem I could find in those days was Lustre
(unrelated to Gluster, despite the naming). Lustre works well but it almost
impossible to install and operate.
~~~
batbomb
In HPC/HTC, Lustre is very common, especially in DOE labs. I've never tried to
install it, but I don't think my colleagues who have are some kind of special
genius.
~~~
jpgvm
Most HPC labs run distributions that go to quite a lot of pain to ensure
Lustre works well.
The issue with Lustre is that it usually requires kernel patches if you are
not running the aforementioned distributions that are designed for HPC.
Specifically the Lustre OSD used a modified version of ext2 among other
issues.
That could be getting better now with the new ZFS based OSD though I wouldn't
put money on it being "easy" to install.
Lustre also doesn't provide any means of replication. If you want to achieve
HA with Lustre you need to make each OSD individually HA. This can be done
with multi-pathed SAS arrays and a ton of scripting but it's still not exactly
a walk in the park.
Hopefully one day we will see a real high performance distributed filesystem
that also bundles replication, tiering and some semblance of POSIX
compatiblity. I doubt Ceph is going to be it so we are probably still 5-10
years from a solution to the problem.
~~~
batbomb
Well most HPC installation I know are just running RHEL6/7 (except for NERSC
which is using Cray linux based on SUSE still I think?) which I wouldn't peg
as particularly exotic. The HA thing is know, typically Lustre is just a piece
of the file system, along with local disks and GPFS (and now towards Ceph),
and HPSS/tape (which can be a tier of GPFS).
I'm not so sure the hope for "one filesystem to rule them all" will ever
really work out, but Ceph is the best positioned.
------
cdnsteve
File storage in 2016? Why not just use S3? If file storage even a problem
anymore?
~~~
epistasis
Anytime you use the word "just", you're sweeping a huge number of assumptions
under the rug.
For example, what if you have to run code that depends on a POSIX interface?
That "just" becomes a massive rewrite project.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home - vezycash
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50048144
======
saluki
I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy.
I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and
free quality email.
But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes
(beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it.
Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for
weather, play a playlist, add a todo and a few other parlor tricks.
I guess I value my privacy more than others and don't like the idea of
entities compiling a record of my data that they can sell and market.
Imagine how some governments could use this data to limit freedoms, crack down
on their opposition.
And what about the first data breech that includes transcripts or even audio
of all your household conversations/activities over the past three years
matched up to your email or even address?
It just sounds like we are heading down the wrong road.
~~~
oppositelock
What does having a Nest thermostat get you? I'm a tech dude, I build modern
software, but I live in a dumb, old fashioned house. My programmable Honeywell
thermostat, which has no internet connection, does a perfectly fine job of
keeping my home the right temperature. My door locks use a key, and keys have
great battery life, and my smoke detectors beep instead of speaking to me.
What am I missing by not having internet connected stuff?
~~~
exclusiv
A programmable keypad is nice. I have a Z-wave one which can notify my
Smarthings hub which notifies me when it's locked or unlocked.
The Nest thermostat allows me to control the heat remotely.
These two things are great for rental properties. Guests often forget to lock
the door, I have records of when guests or maintenance people are coming or
going, I can adjust the heat to 55 when nobody is there which saves a lot of
money and more importantly I can ensure the heat is not turned off (which
could cause frozen pipes) which some guests do for some reason.
Outside of a rental, these things aren't as useful. But I'd still get a
programmable keypad (I've been running the Yale touchscreen ones in the
mountains for years). It's very handy for friends or maintenance and with a
Smartthings hub you can unlock the door remotely and give no code. Or give a
code and change it later. I got the one with a key backup just in case but I
haven't had the touchscreen fail yet.
I do run the Nest cameras outside and they've been nice to check snow levels,
bust the spa maintenance guy for not even showing up, expose a neighbor for
stealing firewood and rocks, expose guests who brought an actual bus full of
people, expose another guest for filming a movie, and plenty of other things
that have been helpful documentation.
It's kind of crazy how far the Nest cams pick up audio and how clear it is. So
be cautious of these things because they are constantly recording and it makes
it easy to scrub for footage (detects and quick links to voices, dogs barking,
people, etc). I only listen to the audio when it's applicable (guests are
doing something they shouldn't) but I'd imagine that some homeowners are
watching and listening for fun.
~~~
205guy
It sounds like you have _short-term_ rental properties, aka unregulated
hotels, or more accurately regulation-skirting residential businesses. In
normal rentals, guests are called tenants, and in most places tenants have all
the same privacy rights as property owners. Therefore, a landlord having
access to or retaining any information about door usage or audio-video of the
property would likely be illegal. Perhaps a camera pointed at the driveway and
public street for security purposes, but even then only with full disclosure
to the tenant. Frankly, I wouldn't rent anywhere the owner had installed
his/her own cameras--if necessary for security, I'd install my own.
Of course, the same privacy rights also likely apply to short-term guests as
well, but while everyone is skirting regulations, what's a bit of surveillance
in addition. I mean you've basically admitted (why people can't just shut up
when they break the law) that you record your guests in outside areas where
they can expect privacy (sounds like the hot tub). That people make movies in
places they expect privacy (shocking), and of course you don't look at any of
those skinny-dipping videos _wink wink_. Funny how unregulated businesses
attracting unregulated activities still like to have some way to regulate
their guests--and do so likely illegally.
Yeah, I know, some airbnb guests can be jerks, abuse the crap out of your
investment, I mean second-home you couldn't afford without hotel-income. But
you don't deal with the bad apples by violating the rights of everyone else,
at least unless you want to invite scrutiny and regulation into your
activities.
~~~
Rebelgecko
>That people make movies in places they expect privacy
If they're doing unpermitted guerilla filmmaking on someone else's property,
they're just as guilty of violating someone's privacy and doing unregulated
business activity.
FWIW, when I lived in a house where the landlord installed security cameras
there wasn't much we could do about it. The law was on their side for outside
cameras and cameras in common areas (like a laundry room)
------
LudwigNagasena
>"Gosh, I haven't thought about this before in quite this way," Osterloh said.
"It's quite important for all these technologies to think about all users...
we have to consider all stakeholders that might be in proximity."
How much do they not care about privacy that a chief exec with an army of
lawyers and advisors "haven't thought about this before"?
~~~
XJ6
All "big tech" are at it, I tried to go to "My Pictures" the other day and
microsoft asked me to run my pictures through facial recognition.
They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who
appeared in any of my photos or might appear in future which is insane to ask
of anyone, no-one can really give that third party consent.
Then when I refused they showed me a nag screen which didn't have that
warning.
Then just yesterday I opened google camera and it really wanted to run face
recognition on my photos. I refused.
I wanted to try the google podcasts but it was a brick because I had disabled
"youtube & web activity" in google account settings. There was no way to
subscribe to podcasts without web activity, the application said. And without
subscribing there was nothing the app could do.
We have a company claiming that because I don't consent to have my web and
youtube activity tracked that there's no way I could subscribe to a podcast
that I explicitly choose to subscribe to in an application designed for
subscribing to podcasts.
They don't stop trying, everyone is trying to hoover up all data, all the
time.
~~~
prepend
Google has implemented this asshole design/nagware in many products to push
unnecessary to me and invasive data collection or functionality I want won’t
be available.
For example, their maps app on iOS won’t save locations for me unless I sign
in an enable web history tracking. I get prompted every time I try to save a
pin as well as every once in a while I’m case I change my mind.
It’s a free app and it’s Google’s prerogative to try to get value out of it.
But it’s annoying to me that they purposely don’t implement client tech (eg,
save to app cache, device cookie not tied to individual) that would make their
app better for me. And that they nag with no way to turn off forever. Their
app already shows ads and makes money for them, they just want more money from
the data stream.
I also worry about less savvy customers who don’t understand the prompt and
unwittingly opt in to data collection that exists forever. The Facebook
privacy explosion of last year is an example of users who accepted terms, but
didn’t understand them, and got upset when data was used in ways that upset
them.
~~~
astral303
I think Google Maps not saving your history as you described is an incredibly
bad, frustrating experience.
FFS, my phone has gigs of RAM, why can’t Google Maps remember the address I
searched for ten minutes ago? One minute ago? This is 2019. It has been this
bad for a decade plus. Embarrassing IMO and demonstrates true UX myopia and
true UX incompetence.
~~~
SamuelAdams
Personally I switched to Apple Maps after the iOS 13 release and haven't
looked back. Because it's integrated into the OS, Apple Maps can look into
your messages and auto-complete addresses from that. It can also save places
without you signing into an account.
The only thing I miss is google's "offline" mode. I live in Michigan, and I
frequently go on trips up north into heavily wooded areas. I don't always get
cell service, so being able to save map data locally is a huge benefit. I can
still search for nearby gas stations or stores even if I do not have cell
service.
From what I tried, there's no way to save data in Apple Maps - it assumes the
device is always connected to the internet.
~~~
DHPersonal
HERE WeGo has an offline version. [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/here-wego-
city-navigation/id95...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/here-wego-city-
navigation/id955837609)
------
gtallen1187
I feel like this headline is a bit misleading. If you read the actual
conversation, the question posed to this Google Exec seems to be more about
manners than anything else. The question reads to me as: "Do you think you
should let your houseguests know that you have a camera in the house?" to
which the answer is clearly yes. The way this headline is structured seems to
imply that the Google Exec is warning users that they're always being
watched/recorded.
Again, this is simply my interpretation of the conversation, but I feel as
though it's a reasonable one. And one that was likely shared by the Google
Exec in this article.
------
Santosh83
A few short years ago it was incomprehensible, even in the west, to have what
is essentially a permanently bugged house. Now it has been normalised to such
an extent that even people who claim to be aware of privacy use Alexa et al at
home in a striking display of dissonance. The general public at large has been
sold such attractive shiny toys that they don't realise that the price they
pay for using them is to unconsciously disabuse themselves of any notion of
assuming privacy, even in your _private_ space and activities. This training
has been so effective that they will actually defend these practices and claim
that you're a 'tin foil hat wearer' and paranoid to be speaking up for
reclaiming what was normal and natural as short as two generations back.
~~~
irq-1
People used to ask me why I don't use Facebook. I haven't been asked that in
about two years.
I predict that three years from now the majority will share our views about
voice and video recording.
~~~
slouch
This is such an optimistic and hopeful comment. Thanks. I hope you're right.
------
khelenek
These comments are lunacy. He's suggesting etiquette if someone puts a Nest
recording device (not a thermostat) inside their house purposefully, probably
for security purposes. Security cameras have existed for decades and nothing
has changed here.
~~~
tziki
Welcome to hacker news, where facts don't matter and big tech is always out to
get you.
~~~
mav3rick
Watch this be downvoted and people post comments like "DuckDuckGo way better",
"I want an offline smart speaker", "Google doesn't know technology".
~~~
scarejunba
These people are going to be easily outcompeted in society while they find
terror in every corner and box shadows. On the Internet, this shrill outrage
may pass for conversation but in real life people will walk away.
------
pmlnr
I'm genuinely curious why only nest, alexa, google home[^1] devices get
highlighted - aren't they all use the same tech as the Google App on android?
Why are android phones not flagged as well?
[^1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21262521](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21262521)
~~~
madez
I wish it were socially accepted to tell people to turn their Android device
off while they are in company. I wish I could tell people that visit me to
turn their device off or put it into rf and sound shielded containers.
I don't mind people using computers and their powers to ease their lives. I
don't want to deny them that just because they are next to me or in my home. I
just don't want them to use that power to collect and track and surveil
everything at all times around them, wittingly or unwittinlgy.
~~~
soulofmischief
I have voice-activated assistant on my droid turned off, meanwhile Siri is
active on all iDevices, and everyone with a laptop at your place is a mole.
Do you expect to altogether prevent people from bringing computing devices
into your home? If you are not a state target, then that is just silly. Focus
your malcontent on the real bad actors, not their victims.
~~~
a3n
Actually this is interesting. Some US states require two party consent for
recording. Doesn't that make a phone in your pocket illegal in those states,
unless you say "I have a phone in my pocket, and it's recording."
~~~
soulofmischief
Let's travel to such a state and find out for ourselves. We'll flip a coin on
who gets to be the defendant.
------
PeterBarrett
Having read the short article it's pretty clear that he was simply saying that
if you have an indoor nest camera it would be proper etiquette to tell your
guests that they are being recorded on your device. From how I read it, he
wasn't saying to let your guests know that Nest/Google might be listening.
Personally I'd never have one of these devices in my house but I would
appreciate it if my friends gave me a heads up if I was in their house with
one.
~~~
sb8244
Yes, I read it this same way. I'm not really sure that's an outrageous
statement....
I thought initially that Nest meant thermostats and was shocked, but it's
pretty clear he's talking about Nest Cameras.
------
augustk
I think a device with a camera/microphone should have a physical on/off button
and a LED which indicates when it's on. At least, that's how I would design
it.
~~~
tantalor
I'm sure any 0-day capable of eavesdropping on your phone can also disable the
LED.
~~~
diffeomorphism
I'm sure that is why any device which includes such an LED insists on it being
hardware not software. Even a magical 0-day is not going to break the laws of
physics.
------
kareemm
Since cameras and mics are embedded in all kinds of consumer devices these
days, it makes me think we need a site that recommends devices that DONT
include surveillance as a “feature”. Sort of a Wirecutter for privacy.
Does this exist?
~~~
woodrowbarlow
well it really depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
a laptop running OSS is better than a laptop running win10, but then there's
usually still intel ME doing goodness knows what.
a phone running sailfish or f-droid is better than OEM android, but there's
still your cellular service provider selling location data to goodness knows
who.
anyway, check out the pinebook (laptop), librem 5 (phone), mycroft (voice
assistant).
~~~
username7
Yep. Two phones hacked already, could be a us-based three letter or could be
something else. Can find the hacking only because of transperancy into some
components of the network, but certainly that does not include my phone...
Just another ant on the ant hill, the only difference is that I was able to
identify that I had compromised security (with the phone)...
I want to go all the way down the rabbit hole & can hardly wait for the lebrim
5.
“Those that would give up a little liberty for security deserve neither
liberty, nor security”- my attitude is those who were spying on me can go
screw themselves!
------
madrox
Every time an article like this comes up on HN it's the exact same concerns,
the exact same HN comments, and the exact same arguments. I don't feel like
the conversation has moved on significantly since Alexa came out. It makes me
wonder why articles like these keep getting upvoted and commented on with the
same stuff. Is this tabs vs spaces for the privacy world?
~~~
Sendotsh
Tabs vs Spaces, Windows vs Apple (vs Linux to a smaller extent), Xbox vs
PlayStation, Coke vs Pepsi, people are opinionated and it’s as old as time
itself (religion, nationality, us vs them).
People like agreeing with those that agree with them, and disagreeing with
those who don’t. Very rarely will any news on any of those topics actually
progress anything, or change anyone’s beliefs/opinions, but people still like
trying.
------
FabHK
FWIW, I'm living a Google-free live now, and it works very well:
\- DuckDuckGo as default search engine
\- Own domain for email, forwarded to Apple's mail
\- Apple map, Yandex map, Waze, Here WeGo for maps (depending on the country)
\- For videos, I search them in DDG with "<searchterm> !yt", then copy the
links I want and download them with `youtube-dl`
\- Firefox and Safari
\- Zoho as a replacement for online docs and spreadsheets
etc.
EDIT to add: I should say that I _try_ to live Google-free...
~~~
auiya
You're likely not at all living "Google free". [https://gizmodo.com/i-cut-
google-out-of-my-life-it-screwed-u...](https://gizmodo.com/i-cut-google-out-
of-my-life-it-screwed-up-everything-1830565500)
~~~
perfect_wave
This was a great article. I found the one on the author attempting to cut
Amazon out of her life even more interesting:
[https://gizmodo.com/i-tried-to-block-amazon-from-my-life-
it-...](https://gizmodo.com/i-tried-to-block-amazon-from-my-life-it-was-
impossible-1830565336)
It's next to impossible. Maybe one day our antitrust laws (and the rest of our
laws I suppose) will catch up to the world we're living in.
------
nesky
Your layman user has an very limited concept of what privacy actually is or
represents. Conceptually speaking they don't understand this data is curated,
profiled, stored, analyzed, and continually built upon 24/7 from dozens of
sources and companies leaving the user with little to no capability of ever
erasing or controlling said data.
I've personally encountered numerous people/families who think it's the utmost
importance for them and their children to know how to interface and learn with
this technology as if they won't be able to survive without them in the
future. What frightens me is how now these systems are able to start
incorporating voice patterns, literal emotion in my voice that can be analyzed
alongside any of the multitude of other data points they've already collected.
------
pfdietz
The Internet of Things I Won't Buy
------
raverbashing
Does two-party consent even works if it's a 3rd party doing the recording and
it goes who knows where?
I'm sure this will also work just fine in Germany.
~~~
throwaway13337
It's a good question.
I hope that the law comes down on these devices such that it only makes sense
to keep and analyze all recorded data locally.
If recorded data is never the property of the corporations but of the private
owner of the device, a lot of the issues with them could be defanged.
On the flip side, the value proposition for these devices may then be reduced
- both for the corporations that produce them and the customers that use them.
~~~
vegardx
Not really, in many places you're not allowed to record conversations you're
not actively engaging in, even on private property.
~~~
paulcole
Can you give an example of those places?
~~~
freeflight
Germany's Criminal Code, Section 201 Violation of the Confidentiality of the
Spoken Word [0]:
Punished with imprisonment up to three years or a fine, just the attempt is
already punishable.
[0]
[https://germanlawarchive.iuscomp.org/?p=752#201](https://germanlawarchive.iuscomp.org/?p=752#201)
------
ByThyGrace
Law people of HN: say you went into someone else's home, someone who owns one
of these devices, and recited, aloud, your own License Agreement, from start
to finish, where you state that the speech following the terms agreed by the
processor of your own spoken records must follow certain hard rules etc. (i.e.
your run-of-the-mill ToS language), and then just behave normally.
Imagine Google or whichever tracking corporation's server parses your speech
and turns it to text. Which then gets labeled, processed, fed back into other
databases, etc.
The question is: Would it become binding at any point? Would it grant you any
rights, produce any liability?
Edit: added one key aspect.
------
afpx
How is this even legal if wiretapping is illegal in many places?
~~~
IshKebab
I don't think there's anywhere where it's illegal to record conversations of
both parties know about it.
~~~
hn_throwaway_99
That's the point though, if your Nest device starts automatically recording
your guests and you don't warn them, could you be liable in a 2-party consent
state?
But on the flip side, Google Assistant devices don't start recording unless it
gets the "OK Google" keyword, so it's not like it's randomly recording
everything. You specifically have to turn it on (albeit it can be turned on
accidentally if it misdetects an OK Google). Is this somehow different from
Nest devices?
~~~
gmadsen
its listening for that keyword, whose to say its not listening for others
~~~
SlowRobotAhead
As an EE, this is the exact point of failure I see even from tech people on
this topic.
There is LITERALLY ZERO way to tell that your “Assistant” is not listening for
words like Trump or Sanders then marking down in a log if they were mentioned
with other words like “Fucking” or “Communist” or whatever.
No one has or realistically can do a full reverse engineer of the firmware
here, you’re talking about the same protections used in game consoles and
smart phones.
The “research” into “is my Alexa spying on me” looks at large pattern
encrypted traffic and determines they aren’t always uploading. But they
absolutely could be collecting metadata of what you talk about without the
words themselves.
The meta data of your habits and conversations for a month would be kilobytes
at most and sent in a single HTTP/MQTT message that could look a ping or
keepalive or some normal traffic.
------
irishloop
I know it puts me in the minority, but I honestly do not care that much. It's
obfuscation by volume.
If Google wants to hear me and my roommate argue about Red Dead Redemption
online or the new Bill Burr comedy special, good luck with that.
When I worked in IT, people always used to say oh you can read my emails?
Nobody wants to read about your boring-ass life.
My understanding is they are using our speech to create better speech-
recognition and it shows. I have much better luck with OK Google than Siri. I
willingly give up my privacy for a superior product because most of my
conversations are inane.
And if I ever intend to murder anyone, I will turn off Alexa.
~~~
falcolas
This is simply a "I have nothing to hide" argument, and the rebuttals to this
have been done frequently and better than I can manage.
~~~
okmokmz
Yup, here are a number of articles on the subject
[https://leastauthority.com/blog/debunking-the-nothing-to-
hid...](https://leastauthority.com/blog/debunking-the-nothing-to-hide-
rhetoric/)
[https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/it-security/why-nothing-
to...](https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/it-security/why-nothing-to-hide-
misrepresents-online-privacy/)
[http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/surveillance-you-may-have-
nothing...](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/surveillance-you-may-have-nothing-hide)
[https://www.wired.com/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-
is-...](https://www.wired.com/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-
way-to-think-about-surveillance/)
[https://www.zdnet.com/article/privacy-is-innately-flawed-
not...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/privacy-is-innately-flawed-nothing-to-
hide-does-not-exist/)
[https://mashable.com/2013/06/13/julian-sanchez-
nsa/](https://mashable.com/2013/06/13/julian-sanchez-nsa/)
[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130613/12180423457/if-
yo...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130613/12180423457/if-youve-got-
nothing-to-hide-youve-actually-got-plenty-to-hide.shtml)
[https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tim-carney-even-law-
abidi...](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tim-carney-even-law-abiding-
people-should-oppose-surveillance)
[https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-
Even-i...](https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-
if/127461/)
[https://uproxx.com/technology/prism-why-you-should-care-
even...](https://uproxx.com/technology/prism-why-you-should-care-even-if-you-
have-nothing-to-hide/)
[https://reason.com/2013/06/12/three-reasons-the-nothing-
to-h...](https://reason.com/2013/06/12/three-reasons-the-nothing-to-hide-
crowd/)
[https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/05/the_value_of_...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/05/the_value_of_pr.html)
------
pkrefta
I wonder - has Google became with "no-privacy" by default ?
------
cromwellian
I think the issue of smart speakers picking up a fragment of conversation is
less an issue than security cameras which are designed for constant recording
function. Nest sells inside the house security cameras. Regardless of whether
these things are internet connected or not, recording people (eg house guests)
on video without their consent is a problem.
If a Nest cam was recording to VHS tape in the closet and didn’t have an
internet connection at all it would still be an issue.
------
Fnoord
Google could have the device say that it records conversations the moment it
detects an unknown voice. Google could even ask that unknown voice for
consent.
~~~
netsharc
Didn't Nest want to create devices with cameras? It should just do face
recognition to detect people who hasn't consented.. /s
And just like clicking "I'm under 18" on porn sites takes you to disney.com,
or "continuing to use this site means you accept cookies", if they don't
consent, stuff connected to Google would stop working...
"Ok Google, turn on the kitchen lights". "Operation failed with error
undefined!"
~~~
SparkyMcUnicorn
What's the point of a security camera if it can't record strangers?
------
iicc
Whatsapp stipulates that users are responsible for ensuring that their
phonebook contacts consented to having their details uploaded to facebook inc.
------
a3n
Why would anyone come back to a home after such a warning?
Think back 20 years. Would you come back to a home after the resident switched
on audio and video recorders and said "you're being recorded."
Now come back to the present, and add the word "thermostat." Does it make any
difference?
~~~
WillPostForFood
The Nest thermostats don’t have microphones. Houses have had security cameras
long before Google existed, as have a large percentage of retail businesses,
banks, gas stations, convenience stores, government offices.
~~~
jbarberu
I'd wager most people adjust their behavior accordingly. I would absolutely
expect privacy inside a home. If a friend had cameras inside their home I'd
probably even opt to meet in public, where at least there's no false sense of
privacy.
~~~
WillPostForFood
I get where you are coming from. How do you feel about things like Ring
doorbells, where you are on camera approaching a home. Audio is being captured
of at least some conversation inside the home, assuming there will be some
proximity to the front door.
~~~
jbarberu
In the general sense I'd say I'm ok with a ring pointed at people's own
property. I don't expect privacy in their front yard, might be a bit bothered
in a backyard. A neighbor pointing their camera at the street accidentally
capturing my coming and going would somehow feel like a privacy breach.
Ironically I currently have 2 ring cameras setup on the outside of my house,
installed by previous owner. I'm looking to replace them down the line as I
don't trust Amazon with my data.
------
jrobn
I have the original Nest thermostat. I think I’m going to rip it off the wall
and replace it with something that isn’t front a scumbag company.
This is exactly why I don’t own google phones, assistance, or home automation
products. YOU ARE THE PRODUCT!
------
_wldu
A friend of mine likes to say, "The P in IoT stands for Privacy".
------
daveslash
_> > Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for _
I live in an apartment. Having a Nest thermostat installed was _not my choice_
\-- I would not have opted for that myself, but alas, my apartment complex
installed them in every apartment. I have chosen not to connect it to any
network. I've heard speculation that we're not far off from having hard
social-discussions about the rights of renters -- what is the relationship
between tenants and landlords going to look like in regards to smart devices?
------
pschastain
Just another example of why I want to be done with Google. Between privacy
concerns and the way they drop their own hardware I simply no longer trust
them. Time to start migrating away...
------
yummypaint
Just wanted to point out that voice control doesnt have to involve audio from
peoples homes being streamed over the internet. We already have the technology
to do everything client side aside from the search request itself. You can bet
companies have no interest in pursuing this though. The voice control vs
privacy narrative is preferable to these companies because they can pretend
there are no alternatives and keep collecting.
------
standardUser
Google Home/Assistant doesn't provide much value for me anyway. Half the time
it doesn't even do what I say. I'd like to stop using it, but I use it to
control a variety of smart lights and smart plugs, which are extremely useful
in my very old apartment.
Is there an app that can handle those and other connected devices without a
Google Home or similar? Or would I have to use a different app for each
individual component?
------
NelsonMinar
Don't forget all the TV panels in your house listening in on you too. Me, I
don't plug any "smart" TV into the Internet. But a lot of folks do.
I think the horse has left the barn on this kind of technology. What I hate
most about it is that it's impossible for an ordinary person to understand
exactly what all might be spying on them at any moment.
~~~
slouch
Sure, but TVs aren't always on like this Nest device.
~~~
bob1029
This is not always true anymore. Many modern Samsung TVs (and I am sure some
other popular brands) have a standby update option, which would imply it is
actually "always on".
Ideally, it is only checking for the latest firmware version while you think
it's off, but almost certainly it is doing other nefarious things you have
zero visibility into.
~~~
slouch
> but almost certainly it is doing other nefarious things you have zero
> visibility into.
I just can't get on board with that.
[https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-
smar...](https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-
snooping-features/)
------
algaeontoast
Yeah, I’m definitely selling or throwing out my nVidia shield now.
I think we should start shaming people who have these stupid “assistant”
devices in their homes...
I generally turn my phone off when I’m home and keep it in a cigar box.
However, it sucks because it’d still be great to actually communicate with
friends / use the internet without my device having a hot mic.
------
yannovitch
As this website is called _Hacker_ News, I would suggest to install rather one
of the numerous IoT platform such as Home Assistant or OpenHAB, and connect
one of your devices to it. A Raspberry Pi is more than enough to do the job.
------
dang
Url changed from [https://www.pulse.ng/bi/tech/google-exec-says-nest-owners-
sh...](https://www.pulse.ng/bi/tech/google-exec-says-nest-owners-should-
probably-warn-their-guests-that-their/z1e1d5n), which points to this.
------
eth0up
Is it unfeasible to pursue expansion of dual/two-party consent laws to cover
this in some way?
------
gerash
I think that's how you end up with corp. speak. Anything an exec says is going
to be blown out of proportion for grabbing clicks. Next time he gets a
question he's going to read his answer from a legal and PR approved script.
------
hkt
Conveniently moving the burden of privacy awareness from the company to the
consumer. Sort of like how big oil wants us all to think the climate emergency
is about our choices as individuals rather than their massive horrendous
enterprises.
------
RandomBacon
Legislation we need: "smart" devices need to come packaged with labels for
people to put on their door warning guests that there is audio recording
equipment inside and no expectation of privacy can be provided.
~~~
jdlyga
Is the distinction that it's private space? There's tons of recording
equipment monitoring public roads, sidewalks, streets, inside stores, etc. In
Manhattan, you're on camera way more than you're off camera.
------
jklinger410
Also time to start asking people to leave their phones in their cars, taking
them as they walk in your door, or warning them that you have your phone on as
well.
Anyone who uses a voice assistant should be warning others of this at all
times.
------
karpodiem
Which is why I unplug my Nest from the wall socket when I get back to my
apartment.
------
lavezzi
Why has the original BBC article not been linked to instead?
[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50048144](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50048144)
------
sorokod
What about recordings by that radar gizmo the new pixel is fitted with? Should
owners warn "guest" that their movements are recorded?
My promotion is not dependent on finding ways to monetize this data but Gait
analysis is a thing.
------
ThrowMeAwayOkay
I can guarantee you I'm not letting any of that smart crap into my home. The
fact people willingly hook up something that records conversations and even
video of their private lives...dumbfounds me.
------
tomcooks
[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50048144](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50048144)
why wouldn't you post the original BBC article, I wonder.
------
tweednose
We already are potentially bugged everywhere via our phones.
That said, I refuse to install cameras anywhere except the outside of my
house. I don't want a recording of friends coming over and talking to me.
------
beepboopbeep
I just don't understand the value added by a smart speaker or an "AI
Assistant" of any kind. It seems like so much effort for such a minute return
on convenience.
------
boringg
Darn, I just bought for nest smoke alarms - I figured that was safe from being
spied on by google. Man thats super disapointing. Why do we need microphones
in smoke alarms?!
------
chenning
Dumb question, but why are people so surprised by this? Can you honestly say
at this point in the game that you had no idea this was happening or that this
is news to you?
~~~
evross
One simple answer is that marketing (a.k.a. thought manipulation) works.
Propaganda works. What's the advertisement/marketing spending for all these
surveillance companies' products in the past 10 years? And, in comparison,
what about the advertising spending for consumer awareness of privacy respect
and personal information security? Combine that lopsided-ness with the general
person's lack of technical/surveillance education and it's more understandable
why people aren't rejecting these companies' creepy behaviour.
------
davidwitt415
For home automation usage, Voice UI doesn't need to be in the cloud. Does
anybody here have any experience using Mycroft AI or other local solutions?
------
intrepidkarthi
The mobile phones and apps are already eavesdropping when it is active. Smart
speakers are just add-ons to collect data 24X7.
------
haxorito
I make my guest sign agreement before they enter my property... I don’t have
many people visiting me anymore
------
pnw_hazor
It is a crime in WA and some other states to record conversations without
consent of all parties.
------
squarefoot
Then what about digital assistants, and cellphones, and connected car
computers, and...?
~~~
jdgoesmarching
Seriously, most people here probably send location data to Google several
times a day and have for almost a decade. We all make security tradeoffs for
convenience, people high roading on this thread are no different.
The people avoiding voice assistants and smart locks probably have 50 way more
vulnerable security gaps in their personal lives
------
buboard
Wonderful times when your thermostat cant work without spying on you having
sex
~~~
kevin_thibedeau
All's good so long as you yell out "BB is great!"
------
reaperducer
Quote A: "I haven't thought about this before in quite this way"
and then
B: "Does the owner of a home need to disclose to a guest? I would and do when
someone enters into my home"
If A is true, then B is a lie.
If B is true, then A is a lie.
If A is true, then Google doesn't have the smartest kids in the room running
things.
------
coding123
Maybe they can drop in Soli and have Nest warn them automatically...
------
classified
So Google has made it official that they're a manufacturer of spyware. All
that stuff should be illegal right off the bat since it merrily spies on
people who never gave their consent.
------
jstewartmobile
I have an ordinary thermostat that doesn't need firmware, an internet
connection, or to eavesdrop on my conversations. It works great!
What exactly is the advantage here?
~~~
lotsofpulp
Automatically turning HVAC systems on and off depending if the place is empty,
turning it back on remotely, cycling the fan on and off to circulate air more
often, removing excess humidity, using data about sunlight to adjust temps.
There must be energy savings for the utility companies to give them out for
free or almost free. Although I prefer the HomeKit thermostats since I presume
Apple has better privacy controls.
~~~
jstewartmobile
Don't know about other parts of the country, but where I'm at (low 80s @night,
mid 90s @day), that's all false economy.
Turning it down while away for a few hours just means a struggle to get the
temps back down when I return. And in places where summer is less hateful,
best option is to turn it off altogether and open the windows.
To a utility company, just shaving a percent or two off consumption is a slam-
dunk. Not so much out of eco-friendlyness as fear of having to add more
capacity. Personally, I will gladly pay another percent or two on my power
bill to not have any more SV awfulness in my house than necessary.
------
luckydata
Or more simply not buy a nest product
------
RealObama
Make your own IoT Devices people!
------
LoSboccacc
jUst PUT a GDPR nOtice on THE DOoR
~~~
njsubedi
You mean, a curtain [banner] that displays a notice, which the visitors need
to move aside [close] to enter the house? ;)
------
throwaway9983
Not being funny but i have a nest and i don't remember anything i the set up
about any microphone at all, also i don't remember anything about agreeing to
share personal data.
I assumed it would be uploading usage and stats as nobody respects privacy but
that is very different to actual recordings or images ffs.
i live in the EU so this seems a pretty clear breach of GDPR no? i would have
needed individual opt in consent for each of these (i would have thought)
------
jacquesm
Hahaha. Sorry, really? Your bloody thermostat requires a consent form now for
visitors to your house. This madness should really stop. All these appliances
with microphones phoning home your every spoken word should be burned in a
large pile. Let's start over, this is not going to end well.
~~~
mrzimmerman
It's not including the thermostat, but he's specifically talking about
etiquette, not legally binding EUAs with your house guests.
Think of it more as "Oh, btw, I've got cameras in the living room, kitchen,
and on the back patio if that's something that bugs you."
------
UweSchmidt
No person or device has ever asked me for consent for _their_ Siris, Cortanas
and Alexas. So this time and place is as good as any:
I do not consent to the audio-, image- or video recording of any "smart
device" that is not my own. I ask that any such data about me that has been
passively recorded be deleted.
------
edoo
This happens to be a good example of how there are so many laws you likely
break some all the time. California requires consent from all present who have
vibrated the air while you record the air vibrations (but not with your ears
and brain storage!). That means if the google phone in your pocket listens to
people at a restaurant or your alexa listens to your delivery man for a second
you are a criminal under California penal code.
~~~
soulofmischief
> California requires consent from all present who have vibrated the air while
> you record the air vibrations
One-party recording laws enable us to catch bad actors. Otherwise, you can't
do things like record Rob Ford smoking crack and being a racist piece of shit
while the incumbent mayor. The fact that you don't have the right to record a
conversation you are participating in is _not a good thing_.
~~~
eth0up
I'll tell of an actual situation that is different, but with similar elements.
Guy A arranges for presumed friend (pf) to provide transport for post surgery
where benzodiazepines are administered along with local anesthetics. Guy A is
still hesitant after 1st dose of benzo, so another is given and surgery
proceeds. Afterwards, pf transports intoxicated guy A home, but for whatever
reason, they agree to go elsewhere. Along the way, pf insists on purchasing
liquor, which guy A feebly objects to. Liquor is purchased. Guy A and pf
arrive at some home and drink liquor. Guy A is now drinking hard liquor on a
double dose of surgical grade benzodiazepine and is concealing the effects
poorly. Guy A, whose personality includes jovially natured hyperbole on
occasion, is now saying abnormally odd things. Throughout this occasion, pf
fails to inform guy A of recordings taking place in the car, home and on pf's
phone. The following day, pf takes Guy A to retrieve vehicle from medical
facility and informs guy A of his obnoxious behavior and deranged rhetoric on
previous night. Guy A is a bit alarmed and skeptical, but regretfully accepts
that in such a state, dumb things were said. Pf, however, does not share
recordings with guy A, but does with friends, without disclosing context.
~~~
soulofmischief
That really sucks. Unfortunately some shitty behavior might not be able to be
legislated away if the alternative is severely impactful to the state of civil
liberty.
We won't find a perfect law which only allows good behavior, but we can find
one that catches the most bad behavior with the least impact on those with
good behavior.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
React-reboot: simplest way to update the syntax of your old React components - slorber
Hey all. Not really used to HN so I hope it's not a big deal if I advertize here my new opensource project React-reboot<p>https://react-reboot.now.sh/<p>It's a tool (online,cli,node) that permits to update the syntax of your react/js files.<p>It runs jscodeshift eslint babel prettier in a row with an opiniated config because some transforms are only available in one of these tools
If you like you can retweet: https://twitter.com/sebastienlorber/status/925743129705185281
======
sutterlity
Yep great tool :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Any Weird Anecdote from Japan? - da02
Just out of curiosity:<p>Do you have a (poignant, surprising, or Dilbert-esque) experience as a visitor to Japan or any J-Town?
======
paulhauggis
I went to Japan. I saw a vending machine with school-girl panties. mmmmm...
~~~
da02
Thank you for _not_ sharing pictures of that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How-to: set up dual-band WiFi (and juice your downloads) - vaksel
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/01/how-to-set-up-dual-band-wifi-and-juice-your-downloads/#continued
======
lutorm
Except that even with my 2.4 802.11n, the DSL is far, far slower. Maybe this
makes sense if you have a for-real wired internet, but even 802.11b can max
out most residential internet...
~~~
jrockway
It's now possible, even easy, to get 100Mbps Internet most places in the world
(even the US), so a 54Mbps connection won't be adequate for much longer.
FWIW, I used wired between my main computers, and only use wireless when
people bring their laptops over or something. Gigabit is faster than even
802.11n. (Although, incidentally, my Thinkpad doesn't support jumbo frames,
and hence it's about as fast as 100Mbps ethernet in practice. intel--.)
~~~
ivankirigin
I have Verizon FIOS w/ 20mbps upload. It rocks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Elon Musk: Robots will take your jobs, government will have to pay your wage - joeyespo
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/04/elon-musk-robots-will-take-your-jobs-government-will-have-to-pay-your-wage.html
======
internaut
I am uncomfortable with the second part of this equation.
I would prefer instead of a wage, the distribution of shares that produced a
dividend.
If AI and robotics really will produce all this new wealth, then that capital
can be symbolized (Urbit could create such a system
[https://www.urbit.org/#learn](https://www.urbit.org/#learn)) & represent
this.
The basis for my reasoning is as follows.
We have already had a system that had the same effects as a 'UBI' system. We
used to call people in that system aristocrats.
Suppose we enabled all or most people in our society to become aristocrats?
When we look at aristocrats of the past, we see two things.
A bunch of people who don't think mostly in terms of work/money for survival.
This appears to produce two distinct genres of behavior.
Much of their time is spent partying and socializing.
Some of them greatly further the political, the artistic and scientific.
Others gamble away their fortunes.
Obviously it is more complicated than this but that is the impression I'm left
with when I visit the great houses. Aristocrats were continually throwing
themselves into various projects. Sometimes virtuous, sometimes not.
So I was thinking about what creates an aristocracy in history, and of course
the answer is mostly indentured labour or slaves.
The word robot originally comes from a slavic word for slave. Presumably a
more humane aristocracy could be cultivated on the back of AI and robotics.
This is what the Elon Musks and Sam Altmans point to, although they don't call
it an aristocracy, what UBI advocates promote as their values (individual self
empowerment, holding society to higher standards) does smack of the original
meaning of the word aristocrat.
An aristocracy could never have existed were they reliant on a supply of money
from the King. The popular culture idea 'the king controls all' is naive. It
were never so except in certain extreme local cases. Without independent
wealth (from being Landlords), the political economy would be one giant
monopoly. The State would have total power in the same way the Soviet Union
did over the lives of its citizens. Its too much power in one place.
This is the trouble I have with UBI. I can see scenarios for which it could
work. I cannot see any of them working in which there isn't distribution of
the wealth producing assets. The AI and the robots. Jaron Lanier has been
saying similar things for a while now.
The left and the right, Nicolas_Colin correctly noted
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12473112](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12473112)),
will tear a government funded UBI apart in trying to use it as a political
weapon against each other. That problem can be ameliorated with property
ownership.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How would you pitch Excel? - d--b
Imagine that Visicalc had never been invented, and that as a result Lotus Notes, Excel or Numbers didn't exist yet. Imagine that you came up with the idea, and that you foresaw a great future for it. How would you pitch it to a startup accelerator / VC? I am most interested in the one-liner description / elevator pitch. How would you convey the game-changing vision that eventually came from this tool with one or two sentences? And how do you cater for the fact that this is a pretty technical tool that is targeted to not-quite technical people?
======
Someone
Depends on the nature of that alternative universe. If accountants are still
doing their work on paper, sell it to them first, just as happened to
VisiCalc. "A spreadsheet where you do not have to do the (re)calculations" (in
case you do not know: _spreadsheet_ existed as a word Before the electronic
spreadsheet was invented)
If, on the other hand, accountants are using specialized programming languages
that make it easy to manipulate tabular data with computed columns (say a more
free-form SQL, SAS or SPSS), you can try and sell it as a visual debugger for
those languages, or as something that allows more free-form computations.
To non-technical people, sell it as a way to organize their recipes. Totally
impractical, but it worked before :-)
~~~
d--b
Thanks, I see your point. It's very practical. But I think this would not
convince anyone that there is a 10 billion dollar business potential behind
it.
~~~
dropit_sphere
It probably didn't when electronic spreadsheets came out originally, either.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lean Startups fail for these 3 reasons, but they didn’t tell you in the book - daegloe
https://medium.com/what-i-learned-building/16f6de3b7512
======
parasubvert
This felt like a Broscience article targeted at Startups instead of
bodybuilders.
Tl;dr 1. the founder(s) quits too early due to lack of conviction ; 2. the
founder(s) don't understand how to fundraise or company-build; 3. The venture
capital market is in a period of risk aversion. And some stuff about how
amazing Sean Parker is.
His controversial line is "Startups do not fail because they build products
that nobody wants". And he is using his own taste as a barometer of "want".
Sorry , it doesn't work that way.
~~~
krmmalik
That's the second time i've read the term "BroScience" today but i still don't
understand what it means? Can you share some insight?
~~~
dasil003
I'd never heard the term, but I immediately understood it in context. It's the
presentation of an opinion as being based on logic when in fact it is based on
a masculine over-confidence and projection of power.
~~~
krmmalik
Thank you. That helps quite alot.
------
krmmalik
I've worked with a fair number of Start-Ups as well. My observations have been
very different to the article - not that i read it all; it was rather
incoherent.
Not every Start-Up i've worked with has had the same issue, but these are my
general observations.
1\. Founder doesn't release product early enough due to an inherent fear of
vulnerability 2\. Too much focus on getting investment instead of gaining
traction. 3\. Too busy building systems instead of solving customer problems
4\. Dysfunctional Team or poor working culture.
~~~
rdudekul
Your points do ring true.
Here are a few more mistakes founders make:
1\. Resistant to talk to target market
2\. Focused on adding more/better features
3\. Involved in pleasing one or two early customers
4\. Taking nay sayers seriously
5\. Losing steam at later stages when growth does not happen as planned
~~~
krmmalik
Could you elaborate on the 'taking nay sayers' seriously?
~~~
filip01
I'm guessing: There will always be people who think they know why your idea
won't work. It's in the nature of the game
([http://www.paulgraham.com/swan.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/swan.html)
etc). Founders who take these people's opinions seriously are more likely to
give up.
------
mindcrime
_The entire Lean Startup school of thought is based on the premise that most
startups fail because they build products that nobody wants._
That's not even really right. It's more of a folksy and over-generalized
statement about the Lean Startup approach. You can fail in any number of other
ways: developing a product that people _do_ want, but not knowing how to reach
the customers to let them know it exists; developing a product that people
want but not at a price point that people are willing to pay; developing a
product that people do want, but that isn't sufficiently differentiated from
the competition (including its substitutes, or the status-quo); etc. If you
read _The Four Steps To The Epiphany_ \- one of the seminal works that the
Lean Startup approach is rooted in - you'll see that there are steps in there
for dealing with all of these "other" issues: pricing, distribution,
marketing, etc... This definitely goes beyond a simplistic "you built
something nobody wanted" scenario.
------
vlokshin
Yes, the article was lengthy and a bit all over the place -- but the general
negativity towards it in these comments is a bit much.
My assumption is that the author is not a hardcore engineer by trade, but it's
apparent that he's got a decent understanding on the inner-workings of an
industry we're all a part of (or trying to be a part of).
Engineers need to pair with thinkers like Francis. To me, he seems like an
amazing compliment to a conservative engineer.
Lengthy read? yes. A bit incoherent? Maybe. "A Broscience article targeted at
Startups instead of bodybuilders"? No. That's plain "'ignant".
~~~
phr4ts
"Yes, the article was lengthy and a bit all over the place" \- Very true.
"author is not a hardcore engineer by trade" \- you don't have to be an
engineer to value objective reasoning.
The lean system is simply the application of basic scientific principles to
business.
The principles are:
1\. Formulate Hypothesis
2\. Test Hypothesis
3\. Pivot
In the book adapt - why success begins from failure, you would get why the
word "lean" was chosen.
It's because of survival. If you bet the whole farm and your bet is wrong.
It's game over. That's why the lean system admonishes that start-ups try small
experiments.
------
freework
I think to be a successful startup, you need to exist somewhere between 'grand
visionary' and 'lean'. The startup I work for now could be described as a
'grand visionary' company. Our CEO is a very wealthy non-technical guy who is
self-financing his 'vision' of what he thinks a travel website should be. The
company is definitely going to fail (as do 99% of all startups), mostly
because this 'vision' is extremely complicated, muddy and at times incoherent.
On the other hand, some companies are the opposite. They are some companies
that are completely driven by A+B testing. They 'pivot' to a completely new
idea every other week. These companies all end up doing some kind of project
with the word 'analytics' somewhere in it. These projects are almost always
crap, and their success is mainly tied to how aggressive their sales/marketing
people were.
Being 'lean driven' is a bad idea, but abandoning all lean ideals is worse.
------
jonnathanson
Comparatively speaking, it's easy to find a genuine need in a marketplace.
It's much harder to build the _right_ solution to that need. A certain class
of startups fails because they builds hammers, and then goes looking for
nails. But others fail because they find a nail, then build a screwdriver.
~~~
danthewireman
Building a popular solution seems to be even harder than building a right one,
and that seems to be the real goal, in terms of financial success.
~~~
jonnathanson
With respect, I think we're saying the same thing here and just getting a
little caught up on the semantics. It's hard to become a "popular solution"
without being a "right solution" for a significant number of people. Right x
scale = popular.
While it's possible to become popular without being right, that's not
sustainable. So, for all intents and purposes, I'm equating "right" with
"popular" in this case.
Of course, there's a whole lot that goes into making a "right" idea a popular
idea, and that's nontrivial. Did not mean to gloss over that. But my broader
point was about how coming up with a right-fitting solution is much harder
than identifying a need in the first place.
------
jheriko
this brushes over the most obvious reason and its evidence almost immediately.
i've always felt that taking other people's money, i.e. venture capital,
before you have a viable (i.e. running and profitable) business is almost
certainly a bad idea and its indicative of desperation. its a massive and
risky shortcut in many cases.
nobody i know who was successful in business even entertained the idea, let
alone did it. they saved money, scraped it or just poured their spare time in
to succeed. starting out e.g. £100k in debt but with £100k in the bank just
sounds dangerous... in my experience people are terrible with money,
especially if its not their own in any way...
if you start properly without taking other people's money in the form of
loans, credit or venture capital then failing is exceptionally difficult
regardless as to anything else...
~~~
jheriko
(although actually there are many examples where the prerequisite money is
needed - this is where you should realise you are not equipped to start your
business and learn how to make money before trying to - you aren't
automagically entitled to a chance to fulfil your dreams - you need to earn it
and it might actually be impossible, deal with it)
------
lazyBilly
There wasn't as much "lean startup" in this article as I would have assumed
via the title. I don't know that I necessarily agree with the final assertion
that the "lean startup" is dead. I honestly see, rightly or wrongly, a lot of
VC's, YC included, moving towards a more lean and mean, revenue-centric model
as capital markets get more conservative. Which is strikingly similar to a
lean startup. Then the question becomes, if you're profitable, can the
acceleration provided by VC capital push you over the top? Lean B2B plays
aren't necessarily the kind of internet land-grabs we've recently seen out of
the valley.
------
antitrust
It seems to me that startups fail for one or more of these two basic reasons:
(1) The product can't make money. (Corollary: at first, the product only needs
to convince investors it can make money, and then it can be sold to large web
firms for great profit.)
(2) The firm can't complete the product.
I have seen all combinations of the two above.
I think the tendency on a lot of self-help websites is to try to give advice
for accomplishing a product according to what has worked for other people.
However, any startup is a business, and the principles of the two rules above
still apply: find something that you can sell, and then find a way to
accomplish at least a 1.0 version of it.
------
stephanerangaya
TL;DR of this article:
Startups fail for three very different reasons:
\- The founder is not playing a big enough game, does not have enough
conviction, is not confident enough in how BIG his idea is, and is not
aggressive enough in execution, ends up quitting too early because he doesn’t
have enough money to pay rent and groceries. Needs a Sean Parker.
\- The founder does not understand how to do company building and fundraising.
Needs a Matt Cohler.
\- There is a capital markets problem (opportunity!) and there is not enough
risk capital available.
------
pbreit
A lot of good observations and passages but ultimately difficult to digest.
There is certainly plenty of room for lean startups but thank goodness for
Uber, et al.
------
liquidise
It has been many years since i have taken latin, but i am still struggling to
understand his usage of "a priori". Am i reading this paragraph wrong?
------
rburhum
Thank you for the article. It was a great read.
About other comments, don't worry too much about them. Everybody that doesn't
run their own company is an expert in startups these days.
~~~
phr4ts
The author of the article was attacking someone or something that people
believe. It's expected he'd be attacked in return.
My bet is that the author of that article has either not read the book "lean
startup" or he flipped quickly through the book like i did his article.
------
vgoklani
This article is too damn wordy, I kept scrolling, and it just kept going on
and on ...
~~~
phr4ts
The guy should focus on novels. He's not using his talent properly.
------
taskstrike
Team matters so much more than anything else. You can apply lean startup
perfectly and have a team that just can't execute.
I am wary of methodology driven startups vs a great team tackling a general
idea/market.
~~~
mindcrime
_I am wary of methodology driven startups vs a great team tackling a general
idea /market._
Those aren't mutually exclusive. How about a great team, employing a great
methodology, pursuing a general idea?
~~~
saraid216
Perfection is always ideal, but if you find a great team player who just
doesn't believe in your methodology, which do you pick?
~~~
mindcrime
If they're a "great team player" they don't have to _believe_ in the
methodology, but they have to agree to work within it. Unless, that is, they
can sell me on a different approach.
------
badclient
You know lean start up has serious flaws _at least in how it 's being taught_
when you see two companies attacking the same market/product only to see one
company die with the conclusion that there isn't product/market fit.
Lean is big on experiments and sounds great in theory but as a complete system
it is very lacking.
~~~
mindcrime
There's definitely a disconnect somewhere, because half (or more) of the
people writing about Lean Startups, Customer Development, etc., clearly don't
get it at all. I'm almost at a point where I'm not going to bother reading any
post that mentions "lean startup" or "customer development" in the title
unless the domain is steveblank.com.
I think _part_ of the problem is that the "lean startup" approach inherits a
lot of (or all of) Steve Blank's "Customer Development Methodology", and CD is
not a quick and easy thing to learn. I mean, the basic gist of it can be
taught in 5 minutes, but the actual methodology is _very_ elaborate and
detailed. But if all you read is the "Lean Startup" book, or a few blogs on
the topic, and don't actually sit down and read _The Four Steps To The
Epiphany_ (or _The Startup Owner 's Manual_) directly - and probably a few
times - you probably don't know enough about the topic to really use it, or
comment on it.
For perspective, I'll offer this: I first read TFSTTE about 2 years ago, and
have been incorporating the approach into what we do at Fogbeam Labs ever
since. I've also read the Eric Ries book, and several other titles on the
topic, and a ton of blog posts on the topic. I've also attended Lean Startup
Circle meetings and follow the LSC mailing list. And I'll still quickly admit
that I have a lot to learn. I think I could teach the basics to somebody else
right now, based on what I know, but I'm not even close to being a real expert
on this. And I've been at ground-level, actually implementing this (albeit not
full-time) for two years or so..
It's a bit like Agile Development in a way... "Lean Startup" and "Agile
Development" have both become trending buzzwords that are often flaunted by
people who don't really understand all the depth and nuance of the topic,
which results in an inevitable backlash (also by people who don't really
understand the topic in any depth).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Easy Guide to Monads, Applicatives, & Functors - grzm
https://medium.com/@lettier/your-easy-guide-to-monads-applicatives-functors-862048d61610
======
strangattractor
If monads are so easy why are there so many articles written explaining them?
I am losing count of how many articles I have seen just on monads. Pretty soon
they will catch up to all explanations of why functional programming is the
bees knees.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Valve's flat structure contains “hidden layer of powerful management” - boynamedsue
http://www.pcgamer.com/valves-flat-structure-contains-hidden-layer-of-powerful-management-claims-ex-employee/
======
blakerson
I'm tired of seeing these headlines based on one employee's departure. I'm not
here to defend Valve by any means, but _any_ sufficiently large organization
will have the feature in Ellsworth's words that "it is human nature that they
will minimize the work that they do and increase the control that they have,"
regardless of the structure. With that in mind, I think it's equally naive to
think that (a) Valve has done something wrong with its organizational
structure and (b) any other organization with "more" structure than Valve is
doing something wrong. As much as it's become a line for dismissing people in
Silicon Valley for a variety of reasons, "lack of (cultural) fit" can be a
real thing.
------
meesterdude
This is pretty interesting. It's unfortunate she went through such an
experience, but its insightful to see some new perspective on valve's
structure.
Also: there is a difference between fired and laid off, but the article
confuses the two:
> 'Did you hear so-and-so was laid off?' It was someone on our project. I was
> mad. I hopped in the elevator and went straight up to our team - and I found
> Rick, and he said 'I was fired. You too.'
A little disappointed about their bonus incentives, and i think it hurts them
in the long run. Working only on what gets visibility is not how you advance
your field or company. When you've got the capital, you give your people the
freedom to take risks and explore new ideas. Investing in visibility is how
you end up as Microsoft.
Seems like yet another reason to stay small; or at least have a shallow
hierarchy. I don't think a company should ever feel like highschool for
anyone. Or maybe it just needs an element of design and attention, like
anything else that you want to succeed. It's pretty clear what happens when
you let it grow on its own; the same thing that happens everywhere else.
Its understandable she's bitter about it; who wouldn't be if they were driving
a project at a company they liked working for, and then its all uprooted?
Firings/layoffs suck for everyone involved.
Also, good on Gabe for letting her keep the hardware.
------
ada1981
Get's downsized and walks away with ownership of the hardware she was
developing within the company and is "really, really, bitter."
~~~
striking
To respond with a quote or two: "I am really, really bitter. Because they
promised me the world and then stabbed me in the back." "I couldn't believe
it. The handbook said that if you get too far off course they will tell you
about it."
------
meesterdude
related to company structure, I recently read "Turn the ship around!" and
found it to be a great book on leadership (its Harvard business school meets
the red october, if you're not familiar)
Anyone have any experience with Leader-Leader at a company? I feel like it
would mostly work, but there are some variables I think that might need
attention.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I Refuse to Be Busy - prostoalex
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/i-refuse-to-be-busy/?_php=true&_type=blogs&smid=fb-nytimes&WT.z_sma=US_IRT_20140404&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1388552400000&bicmet=1420088400000&_r=2&
======
mintykeen
We make a lot of choices like that as a family too. Definitely makes a
difference in our quality of life. We don't have cable, don't over-schedule
our kids with lessons and sports they don't even like. What happened to just
playing with the kids in the neighborhood until dark? ;)
~~~
simon
Yup. Man I remember my childhood and it was awesome ... no planned sports,
regular family meal times and plenty of time to just play or read or ride my
bike or walk for miles in the local fields. I try to provide something close
to this for my kids.
Step number one: no TV! Step number two: remind them that boredom is life's
way of encouraging them to be more creative!
------
WWLink
I love that article!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why the Vivaldi tablet never came to market - Tsiolkovsky
http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/606100/1bc685b18f0f85bc/
======
616c
I am about to give up on Android. I have an Android phone. Once the new
Phoenux (GTA04) brings pure Linux back to a mobile phone, I will ditch that as
well. I have an old Android tablet, and I just never got into it. And I love
Linux variants and playing.
It is just too much cruft on top of what I care about. So if Vivaldi will not
come to be, and the alternatives are so so (I did see that project to make a
RPi into a tablet with a custom shell; very cool), I am definitely going to
pony up the money for a tablet laptop with a touch screen and just spend a
little more and save myself the hassle.
I have seen decent reviews of the Yoga 11s. I think I am going to splurge on
that. Honestly, it is not much more epxensive than a high end of the line
Android tablet, but with no one of the flexibility I waste my time on Linux
for so.
So yeah. If someone makes Vivaldi I would be super happy. But I have come to
see the truly open tablet as the year of the Linux desktop, in terms of them
being pipe dreams, and I would rather focus on things I can use instead of
praying for hostile industry players to begrudgingly give me and then make me
do a song and dance to get back to root for.
~~~
pessimizer
Support [http://neo900.org/](http://neo900.org/) if you want a traditionally
Linux phone - it's another GTA04 project. Right now it's my best prospect for
a Linux phone, piggybacking off the huge N900 community.
I have fears that the software porting effort is lagging far behind the
hardware effort, but I'm putting the odds of getting a usable jessie or Maemo
phone a bit higher than the odds of Jolla retreating from the iOS/Android
strategy of sandboxing the user for business purposes.
~~~
616c
Yeah, thanks for clarifying the neo900 or Pheonux project or whatever they
call themselves now are what I am waiting for.
If I had money, I would pledge but I am tight on cash and 500-900USD promise
of a phone is out of my league for the coming year.
------
anon4
This kind of project might see more success if it was made to work on Android
devices. I'm cautiously optimistic that once KDE works on Wayland and Wayland
works with Android drivers (or there are good quality mainline video drivers
for the various chipsets), we would be able to root most any Android tablet
and install a KDE/Wayland stack on it.
I think that enabling that kind of thing - running an alternative environment
on already existing hardware is a better goal than making your own hardware
from scratch. Better as in more realistic to gain a userbase, I mean.
~~~
xanderstrike
> I think that... running an alternative environment on already existing
> hardware is a better goal.
I agree, and we know for a fact that it's a good goal because it's pretty much
been the strategy of every desktop Linux distribution for decades. You don't
need to own the hardware, you just need to make it work on someone else's.
~~~
zanny
Consider though that having the software only gets you so far, though. the
modern Linux desktop languishes from a lack of any compelling vendor options
for Linux powered devices. You don't get mindshare and take over the personal
computer world if nobody can get your software. And having to manually install
the OS instantly knocks out 99% of potential users.
So I do think at this point desktop Linux is at a crossroads where someone
really needs to throw the money in to take over the personal computer space
that Chromebooks are already dominating. Except instead of ChromeOS, throw
around some Fedora, Lubuntu, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, etc devices. Same general idea,
just without saying "were Google, use our cloud stuff because your computer
can't do anything else", instead "heres a computer that does all the things
the Windows machines do, except on ARM CPUs that cost a third as much and
don't compromise".
I guess for that, though, you need freedreno and lima to get some love so we
can finally have some first class mobile GPU Mesa drivers, because the binary
blobs are hopeless wrecks even if they ran fine in a classic X or Wayland
stack.
------
DiThi
> Seigo also concluded that trying to deal with Asia while resident in Europe
> was a mistake.
Just as it happened with the OpenPandora.
~~~
Pxtl
There must be US/European companies that will manage this relationship for
you.
~~~
bradfa
Yes, such as Dragon Innovation:
[http://www.dragoninnovation.com/services/manufacturing](http://www.dragoninnovation.com/services/manufacturing)
But you can also find a few US or EU based contract manufacturers who have
very good partners in Asia such that you start low volume runs and work out
the issues close to home and then transition to Asia for the low cost labor
once all your manufacturing is working well and has good yields. But this is
also not free in cost or time and some companies cannot afford to bear it.
------
rburhum
To the risk of sounding completely insensitive, I honestly don't understand
why they did not invest $5k in a good Kickstarter video and campaign. This is
exactly the kind of project that has people automatically drop money on for
two factors: 1) geek factor and 2) philosophical factor. It is a no-brainer.
~~~
rasz_pl
Your takeaway from a failed hardware project is that authors should sucker a
ton of people out of money using crowd funding in order to not be in debt when
project inevitably fails?
Brilliant! You want a thermal camera with that (muoptics)? or maybe a smart
watch (ostro)? or a magic nano ultra capacitor AA batteries?
Main problem was economies of scale, no experience with manufacturing, NIH
syndrome, and no market.
1 NOBODY wants a tablet with 2 year old specs.
2 almost nobody wants a KDE/gnome/firefox tablet.
There was nothing stopping them from simply ordering 1000 (pretty standard moq
for crazy low prices in $30-50 range) already shipping tablets, and porting
their code over.
~~~
zanny
> porting their code over.
They have been stuck with x86 based hardware since the ARM GPU drivers are a
collective wreck and they use X, so the shitty Android blobs aren't even close
to being an option.
I think it was just premature. We need Lima / Freedreno / that open Tegra
project to mature into their own, so we can have first class Mesa GPU
acceleration on ARM systems, before we can try bringing desktop Linux to said
devices. It is the same mistake Canonical made with Mir, and I think it is a
mistake with Wayland - the Android GPU stack is a lost cause, and trying to
work around it and have the tumor of Qualcomms / ARMs shitty blobs is doomed
from the start.
------
talles
For who is wondering how it looked like:
[http://bit.ly/1tsn8aK](http://bit.ly/1tsn8aK)
(photo not mine)
~~~
j_s
aka [http://www.netbooknews.com/wp-
content/2012/04/vivaldispark-5...](http://www.netbooknews.com/wp-
content/2012/04/vivaldispark-550x341.png)
~~~
toni
Just a couple of days ago I was DDGoing a phrase like "Debian cheap tablet" or
such and found this page[1]. I still can't understand why there is no market
for a Linux tablet.
[1] [http://www.gregwar.com/posts/debian-on-a-low-cost-
tablet-50](http://www.gregwar.com/posts/debian-on-a-low-cost-tablet-50)
~~~
01Michael10
Why does Linux always have to be associated with "cheap"?
There is no market for Linux devices because everyone wants them to be
"cheap". I would like a high end tablet that runs Linux myself...
~~~
keithpeter
Linux does not _always_ have to be associated with cheap, I recollect that
Dell's 'Sputnik' tie up with Canonical wasn't at the $350 end of their laptop
range.
I read the grandparent comment along the lines of 'I want to see how to put
Linux on a tablet. People will be hacking this with the possibility of
bricking the device. I'll search for cheaper devices'
~~~
toni
My sentiments indeed. I will not dare to hack on a $400 Android tablet, but
gladly brick a couple of $50 tablets in order to learn one thing or another.
------
donniezazen
I think KDE has a long way to go before I should jump into mobile market.
There are problems in both technological level and philosophical level.
Technologically, developers need a great platform, sound APIs and good design
guidelines along with specialized tool to make it happen. On a philosophical
level, it would be a nightmare to use KDE on tablets. KDE is nowhere polished
or simple for touch screen. Grossly put KDE is an orgy of settings. Open does
not mean that you can put any crap on user's plate. And one ring to rule them
all principle is that the most important factor is monetization. If
developer's are not making money no development will happen.
~~~
zanny
I don't think Plasma Active has ever been about "da apps". It also doesn't
hurt that inherent to its design, you bank on the same demographic that Jolla
and Ubuntu Touch do - Qt mobile apps. Any of those that ran on any of the
above platforms, which would also run on iOS and Android, would _also_ run on
Plasma Active. And all the desktop OSes as well.
Also, mobile is the perfect direction for a perceived "top heavy" desktop to
move towards, because it requires you to simplify your UI to accommodate it.
The thing in the KDE world to understand is that QML changes everything. The
Plasma widgets we have _now_ were built on top of Qt4 series technologies and
were often language hodge podges of Python, Ruby, Perl, C++, etc. They weren't
hardware accelerated, and the standard toolkit was lacking compared to the
QtQuick Controls of today.
And the entire QML thing is about fluidity. Whereas old Qt Widgets let you
build wildly complex UIs that were pretty much static, QML is best suited to
simple parts doing crazy transitions and fancy effects. Even if you convey the
same complexity, the appearance difference can be enough to be intuitive for
some where, say, kdenlive is not.
So I don't think Plasma Active is a "mistake". It is a great place to see the
next geenration of applications for KDE in general come from, since they have
to be focused. It is slow, and it is not going to see any market adoption any
time soon, but trying to aggressively take the mobile market I feel is a
mistake right now - it needs mindshare that requires Qt5 adoption which
requires the KDE5 series to get into its stride first.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How oAuth Support Can Help Build a Better Politicial Transparency Movement - babyshake
http://blog.jamtoday.org/post/72515095/a-real-example-of-how-oauth-support-can-help-build-a
======
ivey
I don't really see the connection.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cypherock – Making Paper Backups of Cryptographic Keys Obsolete - rohanagarwal94
https://cypherock.com
======
rohanagarwal94
Hello HN! I am Rohan from Cypherock
([https://cypherock.com](https://cypherock.com))
Cypherock is the World’s first offline data storage device that secures your
digital assets without a single point of failure. We are currently focusing on
securing Crypto, but it can be used to secure any other digital assets like
DevOps keys etc.
At the top of the 2017 bull market, I found that one of my friends couldn't
recover his seed phrase written on a piece of paper due to an unfortunate
house fire. Around the same time, my college friend had kept his seed phrase
as a screenshot which got lost when the phone was corrupted. That's when we
realized the need for a solution that caters to both data loss & theft
problems simultaneously.
It's said that your security is only as good as your weakest link. After
talking to hundreds of wallet users, we realized securing wallet backup on a
piece of paper is the weakest link of Crypto security. It exposes your keys in
plain sight, becomes a single point of failure, is prone to environmental
damages & faces from inheritance issues.
This gave birth to Cypherock. Using Shamir’s Secret Sharing, we split the seed
phrase into 4 shards which are stored in the 4 EAL 6+ Smart Cards (cyCards)
protected by a PIN. The 4 cyCards can be kept in different remote locations.
In case you need to recover your digital assets, you need to fetch any 2 out
of the 4 cyCards & enter the PIN that you had set earlier.
Currently, we are open for pre-orders. We will also have a digital assets
inheritance app that works with the product to allow the transfer of assets
like your passwords etc. without compromising on privacy & control. Unlike
cloud-based solutions which almost never work because you have to trust them
with your digital assets, this will be a decentralized service. More on this
soon!
We aim to bring the same peace of mind in securing digital assets that the
World currently feels with physical assets. Looking to get feedback from HN
about the product.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Urbit is a functional environment built from scratch. - winestock
http://www.urbit.org/
======
winestock
Mencius Moldbug is behind this. He will give a presentation on Urbit this
Wednesday in San Francisco:
[http://personalclouds5.eventbrite.com/](http://personalclouds5.eventbrite.com/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Did China Just Devalue the Yuan? How Trade Works with Free-Floating Currency - joshuafkon
https://www.cassandracapital.net/post/why-did-china-just-devalue-the-yuan
======
cletus
This is one of the few articles on HN that I read the whole way through. Good
job whoever wrote it.
The interesting thing here is that the case is made that China can (and does)
manipulate its currency and that devaluing one's currency is what has led to
the shift of manufacturing jobs from the developed world to China (and other
places) but it also notes that this suppression of currency value is becoming
increasingly difficult.
Doesn't this support the argument that currency manipulation is ultimately
time limited?
On a side note, I always like to point people to this [1] on the subject of
free trade, specifically the conflation between free trade and free movement
of capital.
[1] [http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/](http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/)
~~~
melling
“Recently China allowed their currency to fall below the key level of 7 yuan
per dollar.“
China isn’t devaluing their currency, they are supporting it at its current
level and artificially keeping it above 7.
When they stop supporting it, it decreases in value. Where would their
currency go if they stopped propping it up?
~~~
varjag
Do they? All complaints I heard so far is CCP keeps yuan artificially cheap to
prop the exports.
~~~
CharlesColeman
They have in the past (to fuel/build their export-driven economy), but I think
things might have changed recently with the trade war.
~~~
dragonsh
Trade war is one reason, other is external debt in USD. This is explained in
great details in article that China needs 100 billion dollars every year to
service its external USD debt. So they don't want to let CN¥ fall in value
significantly.
------
socrates1998
Great article. I worked at a Forex trading firm and this is a great way to
explain China's dilemma.
Really, this is kind of what happened to every other east Asian economy the
past 60 years. They grow at a rapid pace for about two decades, then hit a
ceiling as their low currency value becomes a hindrance rather than a benefit.
Like the author explains, this is the Japanese model. And every country who
has copied it as done so less effectively than the Japanese.
First Japan, then Korea, then Taiwan, now China.
For me, the fundamental advantage in this trade war with the US is that the
Chinese are replaceable for the American economy. Sure, there will be some
pains as companies move their factories from China to Vietnam (or wherever),
but ultimately, there are other places in the world with cheap labor.
There is no other America in the world. China's number one customer is America
and China doesn't seem to realize this. If you don't keep your relationship
good with your number one customer, then you will lose them eventually.
And that's what's happening.
The Chinese have to get better at international relations or they will be more
isolated as time goes on.
No one wants to deal with a partner who bullies them around. Especially when
there are better deals on the table.
~~~
rossdavidh
You were going great until that very last part.
But, it is clearly true that China's current position is not unlike that of
Japan in the 90's, or South Korea not long after.
I think China's advantage is that they are big enough to create a large
consumer market themselves. The U.S. was once in this position, as was the
U.K. before them, and they both managed to make the transition from selling to
other, richer markets to selling to themselves.
The big problem is, that both the U.K. and the U.S. had periods of internal
stress during that transition, and because they were democracies they could
blow off steam with electoral "revolts" instead of the literal kind of revolt.
Perhaps China has the internal stability to be able to avoid this problem, but
perhaps not.
~~~
simonebrunozzi
Well, not so fast. You are correct that China is indeed different, but if you
look at hard data [0], the internal consumer market in China is not
substantially larger than Japan, and certainly way smaller than US.
Furthermore, the consumer market data includes food, which by a large extent
has to remain a domestic product. If we assume that food is 11% of the market
(based on "$1.46 trillion worth of food in 2014." in the US [1]), then:
US domestic market (without food): $13.32T ($11.85T)
EU domestic market (without food): $9.61T ($8.55T)
China domestic market (without food): $4.7T ($4.18T)
Japan domestic market (without food): $2.76T ($2.46T)
As you can see, China is not big enough, by a large margin.
[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_marke...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets#)
[1]: [https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-markets-prices/food-
ser...](https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-markets-prices/food-service-
industry/market-segments/)
~~~
Aperocky
If the world stay where it is today forever, sure.
You could well bring up that 30 years ago China is about as wealthy as Africa,
and that it is a total non-factor in the world economy.
The bottomline is this, China had 1.4 billion people, they will consume, even
if they consume 1/4th as much individually, the market will be the same size
as of the US. It probably already happened, just that services in China is
much cheaper. Out of the 13T consumption that is the US market, how much of it
is in the form of goods? You'll probably get the same level of service in
China for 1/4 the price. The growth of consumption in China has been
consistently greater than the growth of the economy as a whole for the past 10
years, and it'll likely happen in the foreseeable future as China's export
shrink and infrastructure spending halts.
~~~
rossdavidh
Yes, all of that.
In addition, there is a lot of Chinese money that is going abroad, to buy real
estate in Vancouver and etc. If this were all brought home as domestic demand,
they would have an even larger market to sell into domestically.
But, this requires: 1) that it be spread out a little more evenly, and/or...
2) that the people with the money trust their future in China enough to bring
it all home
Neither of which is easy. On the other hand, neither is impossible, so it
could happen.
------
User23
It should be noted that a central bank with a floating currency is constrained
in its control of interest rates the more it controls foreign exchange and
vice versa.
Using tariffs to constrain the actions of foreign central banks is really
quite interesting. While China has succeeded in offsetting tariffs with
inflation for now, they are paying for it by giving up policy flexibility,
whereas the US can effectively control the price of the yuan with tariffs.
------
syntaxing
This is an awesome article! Is it possible to write an article about the next
recession and it's implications? Our current financial health and environment
is really different from the last one and every person I know keeps on telling
how bad the next recession is going to be.
~~~
tabtab
Even if the next recession is mild, the US has very little room for a stimulus
thanks our debt. It's hard to predict the depth of a future recession, but one
can say for sure that we have fewer options because of the debt. Keynesian
principle is basically a fancy form of "save up for rainy days". We didn't, so
hope the storm is short.
~~~
MuffinFlavored
$4t was printed to bail out the banks. What is stopping more money from being
printed this time, in the form of economic stimulus?
~~~
tabtab
If you mean "Quantitative Easing", it's arguable whether it's the same as
"printing money". I won't get into that debate here.
In a related issue, there's a theory making its circles in both right and left
camps that if inflation is sub-par for a while, say below 2%, then printing
more money won't cause problems.
Why inflation is lower than expected is an economic puzzle. But printing money
to avoid paying debt may create new economic puzzles. If they try it, try it
gradually please.
(The ideal annual inflation rate tends to be around 2.0% to 2.3%, based on
historical record. This is in aggregate. Highs or lows tend to affect
different people differently.)
------
partiallypro
The US really has China in a bind here, and few will admit it. China needs to
weaken its currency to offset tariffs by making their exports cheaper...but
China is very very short on dollars, and each devaluation makes their onshore
debt much harder to maintain. I'm sure China is waiting out the 2020 election,
hoping the next President will be more dovish on China...but I think everyone
(except Biden) is pretty hawkish on China within that Democratic field.
~~~
ETHisso2017
>China is very very short on dollars
$3T of dollar reserves would like to have a word with you.
~~~
partiallypro
a) Investment banks don't believe that number is completely accurate
b) China has used a lot of reserves propping up offshore RMB.
c) It's a lot more complicated than that.
d) 1.2 trillion in dollar debt has to be rolled over just this year
[https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-06/china-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-06/china-
s-dollar-debt-is-surging-and-that-spells-trouble)
------
tanilama
China has surpassed US last year in terms of consumption of retail goods.
China's advantage is no longer cheap labor TBH...It hasn't been cheap for a
long time now.
America is unique and important...But so is China.
~~~
socrates1998
If the Chinese protect their domestic market from American companies, then
there is no point to staying on good terms with them.
Look what happened to Google. Google made all these concessions to the CCP and
still got fucked.
China can't dangle the carrot of the Chinese market if they don't let American
(or Japanese or European) companies have decent access to them.
China teases access, then pushes out the company after they steal their
technology and intellectual property.
The world is finally wising up to this scam.
~~~
RobertoG
So, the Chinese are evil. Maybe, but then, there is nothing exceptional about
their evil.
If you are old enough you will remember when Japan were the evil one in the
80's.
Or we can go to the history books and see how all those tactics is what the
USA used against Britain.
~~~
seanmcdirmid
Japan was never considered evil in the 1980s, even the economic competition
aspect is overblown in today’s view. China has always had a much more
complicated relationship with the USA, even in the 80s when relations were at
a peak due to the Sino Soviet split (and before Tiananmen).
~~~
grogenaut
This is a bit revisionist. As a kid I remember japan being pitched at the
economic enemy quite a bit in the 80s and early 90s. "They're buying our
country" was one refrain, like the claim with "the Chinese are why I can't buy
a house" right now. Also things like
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_\(novel\))
and a lot of other fiction showing us (americanos) working for japanese
business overlords.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS_17xMmmLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS_17xMmmLY)
for another example.
~~~
seanmcdirmid
That is a even a bit more revisionist, our relationship with Japan was very
friendly in the 1980s, and the economic competition aspect was more benign
even in the rust belt. As long as we are drawing from pop culture, the movie
Gung Ho
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gung_Ho_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gung_Ho_\(film\)))
is a more accurate reflection of the sentiment of the time.
There has just to be a gung ho kind of movie for China, as far as I can tell.
Likewise, Japan continued to be a top strategic ally of the USA in the 80s, it
was never seen as a strategic competitor like China is today.
~~~
aksss
I remember relatives in the eighties expressing worries about the Japanese
buying up farmland, and the movie Rising Sun or whatever - the theory being
that what Japan couldn’t do militarily they were going to accomplish
economically. There was concern about Japan as an enemy but never solidly like
we have with China today. As you say, Japan never stopped being an ally, and
China is barely this side of detente.
------
simonebrunozzi
Very useful, in the context of this article, to see the details of the
Eurozone trade balance, "Latest Eurostat data on international trade" [0]. The
total surplus for the entire Eurozone is €20.6B.
Noteworthy to look at the top countries by trade surplus, where Germany
represents the 900-pound gorilla:
Germany: +€111.9B
Ireland: +€33.9B
Netherlands: +€32.9B
Italy: +€22.1B
Czechia: +€10.8B
Everybody else is either close to zero, or negative. Here's the worst ones:
France: -€33.6B
Spain: -€15.8B
Greece: -€11.0B
Portugal: -€10.3B
[0]:
[https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2013/december/tradoc_...](https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2013/december/tradoc_151969.pdf)
------
tareqak
On the flip side, a lot of countries that the United States trades with peg
their currencies to the US dollar. See the last section ( _Why Countries Peg
Their Currency to the Dollar_ ) of [https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-peg-
to-the-dollar-33059...](https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-peg-to-the-
dollar-3305925) and [https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-
petrodollar-3306358](https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-petrodollar-3306358)
for details.
------
dec0dedab0de
I would think it's better to have more imports than exports. The importer gets
goods and services, the exporter gets numbers in a computer. Though I suppose
it's a problem when the importer doesn't know how to take care of itself
anymore.
~~~
option
the exporter then uses those numbers to buy resources (natural and political),
real estate, media and influence inside importer. Until the importer is 100%
dependent
~~~
jpollock
Then the importer has a revolution, wipes all debts and starts again.
~~~
s1artibartfast
Seizing the assets of foreign national corporations within the US would be
mutual assured financial destruction. Markets would crash and plunge the
country into depression/recession as foreign capital flees the US.
~~~
ummonk
Didn’t happen when the US did it to Iran.
------
kakali
This article opens up with a mistake? It's 7 yuan per dollar. Not the other
way around.
~~~
joshuafkon
Whoops - good catch! Little dyslexia I guess! Thanks!
------
kissickas
Interesting article. One thing that wasn't made clear - who is holding the new
Chinese debt? Chinese consumers are the first borrowers, I assume, but then
are local banks borrowing from the Chinese central bank? Is the central bank
then borrowing from abroad, and why is this debt dollar-denominated? Why don't
they just pay it off with cash instead of continuing to put that cash into US
Treasuries?
PS, @joshuafkon, you have an unnecessary apostrophe in the "it's" in the last
sentence!
------
xivzgrev
What’s to stop exporting companies from increasing prices?
Say I’m a Chinese manufacturer of plates. I have an American customer buying
6m yuan worth every year. Previously that cost them $1m USD. Now it only costs
them $857k. In both cases I’m getting 6m yuan, so I’m happy. Or, do I increase
the price to 7m yuan because I know that’s what the customer Usually pays, now
I’m VERY happy?
Does this achieve the goal of growth (6m to 7m yuan) or does it not count
because the volume stayed the same?
~~~
joshuafkon
Well, currently (more or less) the devaluation just offsets the new tariffs
that have been imposed. So in real terms there wouldn’t be a huge change.
Absent the tariffs it would depend on the specific supply and demand for the
good. I suspect both the manufacturer and the customer would split the value
in some way.
Interestingly, the growth to the economy arises through how the devaluation
impacts the savings and consumption rate for the countries in question.
Weakening the yuan depresses Chinese household consumption and subsidies
foreign household consumption. It is this change in national savings and
consumption that drives the trade balance.
~~~
rbavocadotree
Why does weakening the yuan depress Chinese household consumption? Aren't
households buying Chinese goods with yuan, and therefore a weakening currency
shouldn't matter? Or is it that they have less purchasing power for foreign
goods and this effects household consumption?
~~~
ww520
A household has a fixed amount of yuan. More expensive foreign goods take up a
larger portion of that amount, leaving less for domestic consumption. Imagine
every household does it, leading to less demand for domestic goods.
~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
Alternatively, households stop buying expensive foreign goods and substitute
cheaper but potentially inferior domestic goods (eg. baby formula that may be
laced with melamine). So domestic manufacturers can still win, even if
households don't.
~~~
mattrp
I’m under the impression - perhaps incorrectly - that a big portion of foreign
goods are related to mobile phone services purchased from overseas vendors.
It’s possible some of this can’t be substituted...but I don’t know what
percentage of spending this represents.
~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
That sounds unlikely, given that Google's Play Store is blocked in China and
everybody uses local stores instead.
------
rehasu
Does this strategy still work in a world with highest possibility of migration
we ever had? If I live in a consumption repressed country and can see through
the internet that the consumption rate is much better in other countries, I
will also use my talent and resources to move to that country.
Since I can build a network online, since I can investigate laws online, even
of other countries, since I can book and prepay for different steps to take in
migration I have a much easier time than ever before to simply go somewhere
else.
At the same time the psychological bonding between people and nations is lower
than ever since the creation of nation states. If someone tells you they live
at 20% the value they would want to live, just because they want to support
their country, you would laugh about them.
And last but not least, more and more succeeding in the competition of
production talent and creativity is more important than anything else. E.g. a
soldier with low IQ and lots of muscles might have been great 500 years ago.
But nowadays he simply gets shredded by a drone that was constructed by a nerd
with technical talents and zero muscles.
Altogether it doesn't seem very logical to me that such a move can really
improve China's situation, if it makes them lose talent quicker.
------
known
Electric vehicles are still in nascent stage;
[https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/112909164662727475...](https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1129091646627274753)
Till then everyday China need 504 million US$ to buy 8,400,000 bbl/day OPEC
Oil to drive its economy;
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_imp...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_imports)
and
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrocurrency#Currencies_use...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrocurrency#Currencies_used_to_trade_oil)
Hence China is selling/exporting its products/services to USA to EARN that
$504 million/day;
[https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/116150270980923801...](https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1161502709809238016)
------
vagab0nd
I still can't wrap my head around this topic after reading the article.
>> Yuan is not able to escape China, and therefore while other countries might
see capital flee the country long before the point China has reached. China
has been able to prevent a collapse of its currency.
Why would Yuan escape China and why is it a bad thing for its currency?
~~~
joshuafkon
China has strict capital controls to prevent money from leaving the country.
If people believe that China is going to substantially devalue their currency,
the will try to pull money out of the country and invest it elsewhere.
The risk is that the currency would then devalue more than China wants - to
the point that they have very high inflation
[https://chinaeconomicreview.com/for-china-the-risk-of-a-
seco...](https://chinaeconomicreview.com/for-china-the-risk-of-a-second-wave-
of-capital-flight-is-now-severe/)
~~~
bduerst
Chinese wealthy have been historically moving capital out of China regardless
of the controls. It has been so prevalent that the newer housing development
next to where I live doesn't have the number four in any of their street
addresses.
Wouldn't a weakened Yuan make them want to move the wealth back, to capitalize
on the new arbitrage?
~~~
simonebrunozzi
What's with number 4? And, do you live in China or somewhere else where a lot
of Chinese wealthy bought property?
~~~
brobinson
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia)
------
NTDF9
This is the single biggest mistake every single emerging market has made in
the past. Overleveraging on dollars.
These countries need to realize that being in debt to a foreign currency is
never worth it. The short-term booming economy because of a market flooded
with dollars doesn't ever outweigh long-term costs.
See: Argentina, Brazil
~~~
qtplatypus
Many emerging markets don’t have enough capital to invest in infrastructure
and businesses in order to build there economies. When done responsibly it’s a
way to grow your economy.
------
ma2rten
Something that I have been wondering about for a long time. Why is it
considered to be a good thing to export more?
It seems to me that if a country imports more than it exports, it is getting a
good deal. It exports stuff and gets more stuff in return.
~~~
pascalxus
exporting more means you're earning relatively more money that can then be
spent on assets. All spending is either on assets (property, equities, land,
etc) or liabilities (cars, toys, clothes, etc). Assets are the key to wealth
because assets make more money whereas liabilities cost you to loose money.
Wealth begets more wealth because it grows based on compounding effects.
~~~
ma2rten
This makes sense for individuals, but how does this work for countries?
Let's say the US were to export more stuff to China. Now American companies
have more money to buy assets. If they use this money to buy assets in the US
it would just cause inflation. The land prices go up, but the total amount of
land owned stays the same. If they use the money to buy land in China, I am
not sure that it would have much impact on the US economy.
------
asabjorn
Financial tools such as devaluing their currency as a tool in maintaining a
non-reciprocal trading relationship demonstrates the challenges in working
with China. If your marital partner or friend did the same you would probably
be unhappy with them. For instance, giving you equal conditions in my market
assume that you will do the same in yours and that you will not unfairly
subsidize your businesses through market restrictions as well as financial
instruments such as currency manipulation.
------
apo
> Firstly, China has devalued the yuan to offset the rising tariffs that the
> United States has been imposing. In fact, China has devalued the yuan
> significantly since the Trump administration first placed a 10% tariff on
> Chinese goods – effectively negating the tariffs. And with the new 10%
> tariffs that Trump has promised to imposed on a wider range of goods China
> has in response devalued their currency further.
I keep seeing claims that China is devaluing without numbers or context.
Here's a 10-year chart of the USD/CNY exchange rate:
[https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CNY&view=10Y](https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CNY&view=10Y)
At the start of the current administration (Jan 2017), the rate stood at about
6.96. Today it stands at 7.04.
In the two years after the 2016 election (April 2018), the yuan had
strengthened to 6.28.
According to this timeline, the first round of US tariffs hit on April 7,
2017.
[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-
timeline/...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-
timeline/timeline-key-dates-in-the-us-china-trade-war-idUSKCN1UZ24U)
From the announcement of the first round of tariffs, the yuan actually
strengthened. It has only "weakened" in the last year, and then only back to a
level that slightly exceeds that of Jan 2016.
Yet to hear the president and others tell it, China is on a currency
devaluation bender the likes of which the world has never seen. Well, I'm not
seeing it at least.
It seems that the 7.0 level was broadly seen as a line in the sand. But like
all psychological levels, they rarely mean anything in the long term.
The trend is clearly for more yuan weakness based on the chart alone. Perhaps
we'll even see even massive devaluation.
But so far that's just speculation. The chart tells a story of a massive bowl
formation (strongest yuan point in Jan 2014) hinting at severe weakness ahead,
but we're nowhere close to that at the moment.
------
1PlayerOne
"China bids up the price of the dollar relative to the yuan by buying dollars
with yuan, and then sits on these dollars by purchasing U.S. treasuries with
them"
Is China printing yuan to buy dollars? I thought the USD was accumulated from
payments (in dollars) from exports to the USA.
------
natpalmer1776
I see a lot of comments looking at this from a 'X vs Y' lens and are trying to
paint China/USA/Trump/Whoever as a bully, victim, or some other emotional
label. In this kind of situation, I think it is important to remember that
there are not any 'bullies' and 'victims'
Like most business, the rules of engagement are flexible dependent on those
involved and their willingness to assume risk to gain a nominal advantage.
Also like most businesses, the net outcome of increasing risk is not always in
favor of the party taking the risk, however the net outcome is almost always
in [someone's] favor. Thus, you can simplify the outcome of any risk into two
categories: Internal Advantage & External Advantage.
\-- Note: I don't use the term "disadvantage" as I prefer to force myself to
think of things from a advantage/standing perspective. Any loss on a
countries' part is a direct result of another country gaining some relative
advantage. "What is the inherent risk with Action [X], and who gains from it?"
Now regarding the issue at hand, the recent moves between China & the United
States:
China is responding to the United States assuming a greater degree of risk,
and corresponding reward, through recent tariff changes.
They appear to be trying to mitigate the advantage the United States gained by
their actions, and thus are responding as any rational party in this situation
would by attempting to regain their original advantage. The value of the
currencies is, while non-trivial from a macro-perspective, a non-issue
compared to re-establishing a status quo of commerce volume and relative
economic position.
The question that remains now is whether the net advantages of either nation
shifts as a result of this recent exchange.
------
mrb
« _…an undervalued currency, by raising the cost of imports, acts as a kind of
consumption tax for household and so reduces disposable household income. With
lower disposable household income usually comes lower household
consumption…the combination of lower consumption and higher production
automatically causes a surge in the savings rate.
And of course, this also acts as a subsidy to consumption for other countries
whose currencies can now purchase additional imports._»
The first paragraph is written by Michael Petteis. The second paragraph by the
blog's author. That second paragraph is completely wrong. As Michael explains,
an undervalued currency raises the cost of imports. Therefore it doesn't help
"purchase additional imports".
~~~
mediaman
An undervalued currency raises the cost of imports into the country whose
currency is undervalued.
For _other_ countries, it subsidizes imports from the country with the
undervalued currency.
He's not claiming that an undervalued currency helps that country purchase
additional imports.
~~~
mrb
Ah I see, this makes sense. Thanks. I misunderstood the second paragraph.
------
naveen99
no mention of how devaluing the currency affects or is affected by the
interest rate. china is lowering interest rates...
china's interest rate is still higher than than the us feds.
[https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/19/investing/china-interest-
rate...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/19/investing/china-interest-rate-
cut/index.html)
------
corl3onis
Excellent article. I wonder how this news will affect those worried about the
inverted yield curve?
------
known
Not a single word about OPEC Oil in this article :(
------
stcredzero
_Both Donald Trump and Elizabeth Warren want the dollar to be weaker because,
as we will see, a weaker currency will boost exports._
So, is this one way to summarize it: The lowlier a country's populace is on
the world stage, the better the balance of trade, and the more the country's
elites benefit? Of course, this isn't true 100% across the board. Make a
country's economy backwards enough, and its businesses will lose the ability
to compete in high margin value add goods.
------
KaoruAoiShiho
*rolls eyes.
To look at whether or not the yuan is being devalued stop looking at it vs
just the dollar but against all other currencies. The trade war is pushing up
the dollar significantly.
Today's value vs Aug 19th 2018.
Yuan vs Euro 0.13 vs 0.13
Yuan vs Pound sterling 0.11 vs 0.12
Yuan vs Yen 15.11 vs 16.06
Yuan vs Indian Rupee 10.15 vs 10.14
TLDR: Yuan is basically the same, rather it's the dollar that's gaining.
~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _against all other currencies_
The correct method is a trade-weighted basket of currencies. So if you trade
90% with India and 10% with Japan, you weight the moves accordingly.
By this method, the renmimbi has devalued. Just not by as much as it appears
by just watching the dollar.
More critically, the Chinese government fixes the renmimbi-dollar trading
range. This gives this pair (among others) special status over others.
~~~
KaoruAoiShiho
There are a number of measures. Looking at a chart you can see the trend
yourself instead of taking it from OP.
[https://imgur.com/a/5sZRJbW](https://imgur.com/a/5sZRJbW)
~~~
JumpCrisscross
REER is a domestically-scoped tool. It answers “should the currency move,” not
“has it been pushed?”
------
tabtab
Re: _China devalued their currency to offset the U.S. tariffs. But China is
between a rock and a hard place. Tariffs risk severe damage to their fragile
economy if not offset with currency devaluation. But, with the enormous debt
burden the Chinese are now under, currency devaluation creates the real risk
of capital flight from the country - and makes it more difficult for China to
service it’s dollar denominated debt._
Trump knows that China is in a weaker position than the US. However, all this
gamesmanship (and gameswomanship) risks crashing _both_ economies (and the
world economy). Trump is willing to play chicken as long as the US has the
edge. But chicken is still a risky game. An interesting economic experiment is
underway. Unfortunately, we are the lab rats.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Automatically Backup Your Discover Weekly with Rediscover - rileyt
https://rile.yt/rediscover/
======
rileyt
Rediscover is a side project that I have been running for a few years now and
recently made improvements to. It's the easiest way to automatically backup
each weeks Discover Weekly playlist so you never lose another great discovery.
Yes, this can be done with IFTTT. I tried that before building Rediscover and
found it unreliable. Rediscover also doesn't require an IFTTT account and is
faster to setup.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Back to the Future: Slides Before PowerPoint - pykello
http://www.duarte.com/blog/back-to-the-future-slides-before-powerpoint/
======
dalke
The flip side is overheads, which have almost disappeared. Including hand-
written overheads, with lots of different colors, shaky font, and text that
turns to the side when the author runs out of space. I saw once a presenter
give an entire one hour talk with a single overhead, where all of the
equations were crammed together.
I'm old enough that I used drawing tools on a NeXT to compose each overhead,
and print it out onto transparencies for presentation.
So the bar may have gone down with respect to slides, but it's gone if you
consider that current "slides" have replaced overheads.
------
Machow
3D barcharts have a longer history than I thought!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
To Test Einstein’s Equations, Poke a Black Hole - abhishekjha
https://www.quantamagazine.org/to-test-einsteins-equations-poke-a-black-hole-20180308/
======
DiabloD3
Problem is, where do we get a black hole to poke?
UCLA GCG and other efforts have failed to image occlusion of orbiting stars or
gravitational lensing effects while viewing Sagittarius A* (the supermassive
black hole at the center of our galaxy), thus it may not actually _be_ a black
hole (instead, it may be even stranger, like an absolutely gigantic plasmoid
that somehow ties the room together).
I know they meant theoretically poke it, but we've been having trouble finding
nearby ones.
~~~
raattgift
> where do we get a black hole to poke
As qubex suggests, this is really about confirming that asymptotically
Schwarzschild spacetime (and its close relatives) is mathematically robust
[1]. Asymptotically here means that if we perturb (gravitationally or
electromagnetically) a Schwarzschild black hole the resulting radiation from
"balding" will decay exponentially fast and die off to ground state well
before spatial infinity. This is also a useful check on practices like (in
cosmology) taking a boundary at some reasonable radius from a galaxy as if it
were asymptotically Schwarzschild space, and stitching it into the expanding
Robertson-Walker spacetime.
There is no poking of _astrophysical_ black hole candidates involved.
That said, signals from LIGO and (eventually) LISA will provide experimental
evidence to check some "balding" conjectures for various types of extremely
strong perturbations (NSes falling into BHs, for example). Electromagnetic
astronomy isn't really directly helpful, other than double-checking that one
of the colliding compact objects is almost certainly not a black hole.
Finally, "other efforts" will soon include the Event Horizon Telescope, which
was already the only practical platform for direct observation of a candidate
BH. For Sgr Astar, observations from the South Pole Telescope have to be
captured in Antarctic autumn and this time around the recorded data had to
wait in Antarctica until Antarctic summer (when the physical media could be
flown out in reasonable weather; there is insufficient bandwidth from
Antarctica to send it over a network), so the first tranche of data are still
being crunched. It's very premature to do wild speculation about the nature of
Sgr Astar (and your speculation is _really_ wild).
\- --
[1] Hintz works on the stability of several black hole solutions, for example
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.04489](https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.04489) \-- he
here he deliberately breaks the symmetries of the Schwarzschild solution to
see if removing tiny angular momentum by hand poses mathematical problems.
I haven't looked at the Klainerman and Szeftel paper [
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.07597](https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.07597) ] yet.
~~~
beobab
Good old Randall Monroe has come up with a theory in his What If series (it's
in the book) whereby it's almost safe to touch one with your bare hands if
it's immersed in a liquid which your hand is more buoyant than, but he
counsels that it's probably not a great idea...
~~~
raattgift
Touch one what? If you put your hand, whatever it's covered in, through a
black hole horizon, you're not going to get your hands back (unless you let
the rest of you fall through too).
You can have a very mild ("no drama" conjecture) black hole event horizon for
ultra-massive black holes. The curvature at the horizon gets gentler with
higher-mass, so you can envisage an indistinguishability of the tidal/shear
stresses at the horizon versus the tidal/shear stresses in empty space many
many light years outside the horizon. You still won't get your hands back.
The horizon isn't actually any sort of surface (nothing bounces off it) but
you should sure _feel_ the lack of nerve impulses returning from whatever bits
of your anatomy are on the inside if your brain is on the outside. Ouch. Also,
the horizon is likely to be sufficiently "sharp" that on lots of reasonable
orbits above it that let you dip your hands in (without all of you falling in
too), your hands will be fairly neatly and very rapidly torn off. (It would be
fairly easy to misjudge the exact location of a horizon though.)
I suppose if you have a sufficiently small black hole (and ignore the extreme
hostility of the environment near it) then if you have lots of "shielding" it
is plausible that you can move the location of the horizon (from your
perspective) such that your hand can go to where the horizon _would be_
without the shielding. I don't think that would really count as "touching",
though. It's a little like blowing on the surface of a soap bubble then waving
a pin around where the film was (and returns to) in the absence of the blowing
air. "Look, I didn't pop it!" It's _not_ like putting a bit of scotch tape on
a balloon and putting a pin into the tape ("look, no pop!").
~~~
saagarjha
> The horizon isn't actually any sort of surface (nothing bounces off it) but
> you should sure feel the lack of nerve impulses returning from whatever bits
> of your anatomy are on the inside if your brain is on the outside.
Would your hand even be connected to you at that point? The bonds holding the
molecules together wouldn't work, right?
~~~
raattgift
These are two excellent questions that won't find justice done to them in a
comment on a discussion board like this. :-(
I won't try sketch a semiclassical gravity attack on the second question,
which is the harder of the two, and for the first, I'll mainly feint and point
you to Greg Egan at
[http://www.gregegan.net/SCIENCE/Rindler/RindlerHorizon.html](http://www.gregegan.net/SCIENCE/Rindler/RindlerHorizon.html)
as a starting point.
On the one hand, for a sufficiently massive black hole, the Rindler solution
he explores is an excellent approximation. On the other hand, his exact
solutions are (a) not fully applicable in the dynamical spacetime of a
sufficiently massive black hole (even one with lots of symmetries and
otherwise in isolation) because the Rindler horizon is a local structure while
the BH horizon is a global one [1]; there is a local boundary that forms a
point of no return for objects near enough a black hole though you have to
calculate where that is; (b) Egan's rope is a classical object, whereas when
we're at the level of cellular signal transduction, molecular bonds, and
chemical bonds, classical simplifications are already probably cheats or at
least misleading. On the other hand, there are lots and lots of particles
involved, and tracing the evolution of each of them in some suitable
coordinates would be an enormous amount of work.
So I trust my own intuition only to the extent that (as Egan notes) there are
some decent mathematical similarities between the Rindler horizon and a BH
trapping surface.
Sadly, there will be no contact with observation in our lifetimes, but we
might make quick and dirty numerical solutions that will give a strong
theoretical prediction. Additionally, it is at least plausible that we will be
able to do small-scale tests of Rindler space in a few decades. Until then be
wary of people offering glib responses, especially really wrong glib responses
like "the hands will never pass through the horizon because of time dilation"
etc., which are sadly commonplace in online forums.
Finally, my own thinking was that a powered hyperbolic orbiter (rocketman!)
with sufficient momentum dropping his hands past the local point of no return
would end up with stumps, and what does the actual ripping is rocketman's
momentum [2]. In my head is a picture of Wile E Coyote running into a
quicksand (or cement or tar etc) trap and either being tripped up and pulled
into the quicksand or being unlucky enough to have enough forward momentum
that he leaves his feet behind on the first step. Roadrunner corretctly judged
exactly where the local trapping surface was and so skimmed right over the
trap; Coyote miscalculated where Roadrunner's trapping surface would be (given
more global knowledge of the configuration) and then his own.
\- --
[1] In particular, BHs (i.e., compact masses sourcing a trapping surface) can
last extremely long times compared to the age of the universe and can in
principle be observed by anyone in the BH's Hubble Volume, while real objects
cannot be Rindler observers for very long (what fuels the acceleration?), and
the Rindler horizon is peculiar to the Rindler observer rather than a trapping
surface. Nevertheless, one can take the analogy seriously [
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1305.4986](https://arxiv.org/abs/1305.4986) for
instance ]
[2] So I can "cheat" here by having the ripping happen between bits of tissue
that are all outside the horizon at the time of rip; the tissue that is
already inside the horizon is then irrelevant, and it's mainly whole cells
that fall in. The centres of momentum and mass of the unfortunate astronaut
are highly dynamical during this, so it's not so shocking a cheat.
~~~
raattgift
Thinking about my [2] cheat a little further, with a small black hole the time
dilation gradient near the black hole is large, so the inner bits of the
hyperbolically-orbiting experimenter will feel a drag compared to the outer
bits (relative to the horizon). The "drag" is because the outer parts are
winning a race with the inner parts thanks to gravitational time dilation,
against a suitable set of _local_ coordinates on the astronaut. If the
astronaut is facing inwards with a rocket on his back, then inner bits are
liable to be torn off and left behind. [1]
The gradient is much lower for a much larger black hole, so this sort of drag
becomes apparent ever closer -- or even right at -- the outside of the
horizon. For a sufficiently large black hole, dipping one's hands towards the
black hole will probably not feel any different compared to deep space, even
very close to the horizon. However, one would then expect a short sharp shock
dipping one's hand _into_ the horizon. Bye-bye hand.
\- --
[1] Put the rocket pack on the closer-in side, and the intermolecular forces
etc that hold the astronaut into familiar shape will decelerate the whole
astronaut along a suitable choice of coordinates. The coordinates you want are
probably integral over Fermi normal ones for ever-smaller components, lots of
fun to calculate.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook and Twitter Addictions~ - jester5
Curious.. Do you think it is possible for someone to have an addiction to posting on FB or Tweeting on Twitter? I have heard people say such things like I "spent hours on Facebook and I don't know why?"
======
pestaa
A young (~16yo) male relative of mine just spent half a day in my home - in
front of his smartphone, to be precise. All the time he'd hit the refresh
button and scroll through the same FB news feed again for the 100th time.
There is a potentially dangerous feedback effect in social sites imho. Experts
will probably better articulate what the trigger is.
------
jonbishop
I don't think posting or tweeting is addictive, but I do think reading other
people's content can be. Myspace was still popular when I was in college and
it seemed like half the computer lab I did work in was always on Myspace.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion - Zeta_Function
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/health/vaping-ecigarettes-addiction-teen.html
======
TheBeardKing
>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11
percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th
graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school
seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping
on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days
I'm sorry, but is <10% of high schoolers an "explosion"? Obviously
e-cigarettes are more appealing than tobacco products, but regular cigarette
use was 15.8% in 2011 [1]. Marijuana use is at close to 6%, so not that big a
gap from the apparent "explosion" of kids vaping.
[1]
[https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/yout...](https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth_data/tobacco_use/index.htm)
~~~
cbhl
Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4
grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well
dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention.
The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke
cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to
2.2% in 2016. [1]
This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That's huge.
[1]
[https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/yout...](https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth_data/tobacco_use/index.htm)
~~~
jacobolus
Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes
sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I
am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping
are much less severe.
Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will
be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of
students’ time? Or ...
Or are we worried about stimulants in general? Or is there still some
significant cancer risk from vaping? (Are people freaking out about high
school students drinking too much coffee?)
If students are just replacing cigarettes with vaping, that seems like an
unambiguously positive development.
~~~
Scaevolus
It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.
~~~
bjlorenzen
Could you please source this claim? A quick google search is revealing a lot
of contrary evidence.
~~~
eagletusk
Nicotine is considered a nootropic that increases cognitive ability. Perhaps
the kids are using it to up regulate their brains?
Studies here: [https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/28-proven-health-benefits-
ni...](https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/28-proven-health-benefits-
nicotine-4-potential-risks/)
~~~
vkou
From what I recall of being a kid, kids are using it to get social validation.
Also, because once you get addicted, nicotine withdrawal is bloody awful.
~~~
narag
I'm always surprised that the main reason people smoke is not cited first.
For all you that haven't done it: smoking causes pleasure. A fast, intense and
repeatable pleasure.
~~~
vkou
As someone who's never smoked, but has stood next to people who have, I would
guess it does quite the opposite. I imagine most people who don't smoke think
this.
~~~
s73v3r_
The first times you do it, it feels pretty good. Really good, in fact.
However, like any drug, you develop a tolerance and a dependence. Before long,
you require it to feel normal, not to feel good.
~~~
narag
That's not my experience and that's not the experience of any smoker I've
known.
I quit smoking years ago and of course I strongly discourage people from
smoking, it's very bad for the health, etc.
But spreading disinformation is not the way to fight it.
Edit: BTW, the first times you do it are the worst. While you get used to the
smoke.
------
neaden
I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is
probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And
it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to
encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but
increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.
~~~
lemonberry
My father's been smoking for over 50 years. I got him to switch to mostly
vaping last year. The difference in his health has been profound. It almost
eliminated his coughing, increased his ability to walk distances. His doctor
was amazed at his last checkup. She said she couldn't recommend it to patients
due to the uncertainties, but encouraged him to keep doing whatever it is that
he's doing.
Edit: I bought him the vape after a friend that's been smoking for a long time
made the switch and raved about the benefits. I don't doubt that the best
course of action is to quit altogether, but a 50+ year addiction is pretty
difficult to quit. It can be done but you really have to want it. I don't
think my dad really wanted to quit. I know that seems silly, but given his
circumstances I can understand.
~~~
reitanqild
Another benefit I've seen a number of times is that people seems to have an
easier time quitting. (Based on my sample of < 5 coworkers that switched to
vaping.)
The pattern, as explained to me and IIRC, was as follows:
Started vaping insteadof smoking.
Tried vape with less nicotine. Worked equally well.
Tried with half strength.
Tried with even less. Also worked.
At this point it just felt silly so they just stopped.
(Note that these where young people.)
~~~
lemonberry
I also think it's kind of a controlled dose thing. When one smokes a cigarette
it tends to be the whole cigarette, whereas with a vape you can take a couple
of hits, get a fix and put it down.
~~~
corobo
When looking for this I think it's useful to note that immediately after
switching the amount of vaping can be huge. I was actually experiencing
nicotine rushes and nausea in some cases when I first started
The problem I had was that a cigarette has an obvious stop point - it runs out
- whereas a vape will go on as long as you have juice and power.
Over the 6 months or so getting used to it I've been vaping it's started to
fizzle out. I know, n=1, but I think it's something worth noting in case
people see an increase in nicotine intake immediately after switching
~~~
miragle
When I first tried a disposable cigalike this happened to me. I was previously
smoking just under a pack a day, but without an obvious stopping point I found
myself using the whole thing in a few hours, when it was supposed to be
equivalent to a pack. Because of this, when I started using a sub-ohm tank, I
only bought 3mg liquids (the lowest available). I could vape it as much a I
wanted and it took pretty much constant vaping for 10 minutes to feel slightly
unwell from the nicotine, so this worked very well for me.
------
mchannon
A generation ago these kids would've gotten busted for smoking old-fashioned
cigarettes ("Smokin' in the boys room"). Two generations ago it was legal to
buy (at some states at age 16) and legal to possess and use, except on school
grounds. Three generations ago it was legal even in doctor's offices and
hospitals.
California and Massachusetts (and oddly enough, Mississippi) are stoking up a
new hysteria with public health spending in an effort to keep people of all
ages from switching from conventional cigarettes to e-cigs.
I see six-figure earners on the sidewalks of San Francisco smoking old-
fashioned cancer sticks and very few vaping. I wonder- did my tax dollars
dissuade them from upgrading their habit? Second-hand smoke is substantially
safer from vaping, but actual health of nonsmokers must not be these states'
priorities.
There are rumblings about regulating nicotine content in real cigarettes. If
they were to regulate vape juices (like limit the worst precarcinogenic
bases), I think that's a much better (and cheaper!) place to devote public
resources.
~~~
ams6110
Only a generation ago smoking was still allowed at many high schools. It was
at mine (1980s). There was a designated outdoor smoking area for the kids that
smoked.
~~~
pducks32
I wonder if they had one now, only for cigarettes, how many kids would do it
and withstand the social humiliation that exists with teenagers around smoking
cigarettes.
------
kevindong
I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12
education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz
(i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries
on the negative effects, etc.).
It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet
high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form
of tobacco/nicotine when I graduated in 2015.
It's well settled science that using these types of products cannot possibly
be good for you. It baffles me why anyone would intentionally create an
addiction/habit that, at absolute best, is neutral for your health.
~~~
s73v3r_
"I never understood why anyone young would start smoking"
To look cool.
No, seriously, that's one of the main reasons. To look cool in front of one's
peers. You might not have cared about such things, or feel pressure to engage
in them. If so, I'm happy for you. But that doesn't mean others don't.
~~~
bonesss
Superficial habits are also an easy substitute for personality, something
teens are eagerly trying to develop. Everything from hair dying to wearing bow
ties are 'normal', vices carry all kinds of extra social signaling.
------
nradov
A lot of those kids are probably self medicating with nicotine for stress /
anxiety / ADHD. I've never been a user myself but it seems like for many
people who get nervous and have trouble focusing, a little nicotine helps
steady them out.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not recommending that anyone, especially children, self
medicate with psychoactive substances.
~~~
bungie4
Nicotine is a stimulant, not a depressant.
Do you take Meth to 'even out'?
Me, I just quit smoking entirely 3 years ago.
~~~
lemonberry
The biggest lie of cigarette smoking: that it relaxes you. When you're a
nicotine addict and crave it you get anxious, nicotine fixes that.
~~~
Jare
In my experience, when I had regular or constant anxiety, the nicotine crave
blended with it but smoking calmed both. It is very possible that a non-
nicotine method of relaxation would have also worked on both, but those are
rarer and/or less quick and convenient.
That was one of the appeals of smoking.
~~~
lemonberry
Interesting. I should have written that was my experience. Anxiety isn't
something I typically experience unless I've drank too much coffee or, when I
was a regular smoker, needed a cigarette.
I take it you're a non-smoker now. I wonder how a vape would affect that.
~~~
Jare
Yeah after 20 years smoking, I had minor (unrelated) surgery and had to stay
at home for a couple weeks, so I just cold stopped smoking and that was that.
I am curious too but I refrain from experimenting.
~~~
lemonberry
Congrats, it's a hell of a habit to quit.
------
julienmarie
Smoking per se has been a behaviour for thousands of years. As much as there
will always be effects on health, vaping has been a god send for me. I have
been smoking 1+ pack a day for nearly 20 years, until I switched to vaping 9
months ago. I feel incomparably better. My resting heart rate went down by
20%, I breathe better, am way less tired, and it doesn't stink . Plus, there
is a geeky aspect with what we call RDAs ( rebuildable vapes ). Yes, we do not
know the long terms effects, but the chances to be worse than cigarettes are
close to 0. Also, this article is full of references to studies that have been
flagged as partisan and not seriously conducted. Not smoking / vaping is
better, but for an ex-smoker, this is a godsend.
~~~
verylittlemeat
I always find it interesting to remember that smoking tobacco was unknown in
Europe until the colonization of the Americas.
------
bob1029
I think we have a bigger problem with stimulant abuse in general. The
perception of caffeine and nicotine (and god forbid the various amphetamines)
as "safe" is incredibly deceptive. I have seen the differences in myself in
terms of productivity, sleep quality, etc. which cannot be fully-quantified on
some medical study or quarterly performance reviews. We have an entire
generation of young people entering the workforce who cannot go 30 minutes
without taking a vape break outside. Sure, this doesn't directly impact the
individual's health or immediate perceptions of work effort, but over time the
impact is gradually discovered. The individual cannot sit still in a chair and
focus on a complex/deep-dive topic long enough to reach an actionable
conclusion. The other extreme is the individual is hyper-focused on one task
(usually the amphetamine users) to the extent that they begin to ignore all
sense of context and lose focus on the bigger picture. For most employment,
this is usually not a concern, but for those who have to dive incredibly deep
into complexity on a daily basis (engineers, programmers, architects, etc.), I
feel it can be the difference between getting something done in 4 hours and
getting it done in 4 weeks. This perception is also something incredibly hard
to quantify, but I have witnessed several anecdotal examples (some in myself)
which I am confident can be attributed to excessive use of stimulants.
~~~
troncjb
> We have an entire generation of young people entering the workforce who
> cannot go 30 minutes without taking a vape break outside
This is the most absurd hyperbole I've heard so far this week. Granted it's
Monday so you had a lot working against you. An entire generation? Every
thirty minutes?
------
tabeth
Who does this stuff even benefit? The seemingly arbitrary lines drawn between
marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" is so weird. So much moral
righteousness.
~~~
kurthr
The people selling it... (often illegally) to kids, who then have trouble
getting a basic education and develop habits, which are long term destructive
to their ability to operate within society.
~~~
toomuchtodo
Mid 30s adult here who used an e-cigarette for a year or two when alone in the
car for funsies (flavors smell nice).
What, exactly, is the problem with kids vaping/using e-cigarettes if they
don't contain a controlled substance (THC or nicotine, in these cases). We
don't ban kids from consuming caffeine, so what's the problem with inert
vapors? I agree that the liquid to be vaporized needs to be regulated to
prevent health issues, but that's no different than the FDA regulating food
safety.
~~~
neaden
The problems that I see with that are. 1\. Vaping still isn't that healthy for
you even if everything is ideal. Heating something up and inhaling it is never
going to be that healthy. Add in possible contamination in the liquid, issues
with not cleaning the vape etc. and you are always going to have some health
problems. 2\. It makes it easier to then switch to nicotine once they have the
vape pen since the psychological and financial switch is less to just try it
out once. 3\. It makes it harder for schools/parents to know who is consuming
a banned substance vs. an unbanned inert vapor.
I think a blanket ban on vapes for everyone under 18 and a ban on tobacco for
21 and older would probably have beneficial public health impacts.
~~~
toomuchtodo
> I think a blanket ban on vapes for everyone under 18 and a ban on tobacco
> for 21 and older would probably have beneficial public health impacts.
That's a fair compromise, although I'd like an outright ban on cigarettes. If
someone wants to vape to get their nicotine, or chew gum, fine (I am a
supporter of safe recreational drug use). But smoking has been proven to be
downright ruinous to your long term health.
Disclosure: I am putting a Kickstarter together to use GMOs to eliminate
tobacco long term.
~~~
drewmate
> Disclosure: I am putting a Kickstarter together to use GMOs to eliminate
> tobacco long term.
Could you elaborate on this? It sounds interesting, but it also sounds kind of
"Scorpio-like" [0] like you are some Bond villain plotting to take over the
world's tobacco supply with a genetically modified super-tobacco that will
strangle other tobacco at the roots unless farmers pay you for weed killer.
[1]
[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnod9vtB4xA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnod9vtB4xA)
[1] [https://www.roundup.com/en-us](https://www.roundup.com/en-us)
------
SnowingXIV
I'm pretty against the pro-vape movement because I believe there are plenty of
kids now who now choose to vape who would have _never_ smoked anything in the
first place previously. It seems a lot easier to convince someone to vape
because it appears safe and they already know all the risks of cigarettes
which eliminated that of being a possibility (good!).
------
ghostbrainalpha
Reading these comments its obvious that Vaping is forcing us to confront an
uncomfortable truth.
Vaping might not be that much healthier for the _consumer_ , but its widely
popular because its so much nicer for the _non smoker_.
How much of the campaign to stop smoking was out of concern for the health of
future generations? And how much of it was out of the annoyance of second hand
smoke?
Even if Vaping proves to be equally dangerous to cigarette smoking, our desire
to stop it just isn't in the same ballpark.
~~~
Zak
I'm OK with that. I believe people have a fundamental right to make their own
decisions about what to put in their bodies, but not to expose others to
harmful or unpleasant substances.
I'd like there to be more information on the health effects of vaping so that
people can make better-informed decisions, but I doubt it would have a big
impact. The health effects of smoking have been well-known for decades, but I
think we didn't see significant declines until it became less socially
acceptable.
------
013a
One problem I think the industry has right now is the "gas station disposable"
ecigs, like Blu, Vuse, Juul pods, etc. These things have _massive_ amounts of
nicotine, sometimes as high as 30mg/ml which puts the hit right up there with
cigarettes. Combine it with the fact that they taste like candy and can be
vaped indoors with no ill effects, and its a recipe for addiction.
More traditional e-juice can range in nic content from 0mg/ml to as high as
40-50mg/ml, but the most common variants you see are 3mg/ml and 6mg/ml.
Relatively low compared to the gas station stuff.
Its also worth saying that the two aren't directly comparable due to the
action of vaporization. Gas station ecigs are pretty bad at generating vapor,
which means you get less vapor on each inhale, which means less actual
nicotine. Reusable, higher tier vapes that you use with usually lower nic
juice produce significantly more vapor. So its hard to compare.
Which comes down to the biggest problem in the world: regulation and
standardization. Its a complete wild west. You have no idea what standards the
e-juice manufacturers hold themselves to. The "brands" on many juices are
hidden behind flashy flavor names like "Quadruple Laser Berry". There's an
advertised nic content, but who knows if that's actually what's in there.
Often you can purchase nic strengths that are _absurd_ , like 40-60mg/ml, that
would make any reasonable person instantly puke. Physical stores will often
card, especially if you look young, but there are many online retailers where
you can buy whatever you want with no verification. There are states where you
can't legally buy this stuff online, but most online retailers don't care.
~~~
mrob
Seeing as nicotine is a known risk, but the carrier fluids and flavorings are
a mostly unknown risk, isn't higher nicotine concentration better? You can get
the same dose with less exposure to the unknown risks.
~~~
013a
Not really.
Nicotine wears off very quickly. While it can remain detectable in your system
for days, the feeling it gives only persists for 10-15 minutes after inhale,
if that. Varying the dosage only really affects the intensity, not duration.
Speaking of intensity; if you don't have a tolerance, high levels of nic can
be physically and mentally uncomfortable. Someone who can comfortably inhale
3mg/ml of nic might get slightly nauseous and uncomfortable even at 6mg/ml,
definitely at 9mg/ml, unless you have a counteracting agent in your system
like alcohol (which is why "leveling out" is a thing).
The chemically addictive properties nicotine has is only one part of the
story. There's also the "throat hit"; the feeling of inhaling something warm
and slightly uncomfortable. That's a _major_ part of the addiction.
It also tastes great. And its "something to do"; kind of like a fidget
spinner, it keeps you busy.
~~~
mrob
>Someone who can comfortably inhale 3mg/ml of nic might get slightly nauseous
and uncomfortable even at 6mg/ml, definitely at 9mg/ml
That only makes sense if there's a standardized inhalation size, which there
isn't. I've seen people using vaporizers specially designed to make huge
clouds, and they're obviously using low concentration. If they used a stronger
concentration they could get the same effect with a smaller inhalation size.
------
loeg
> In his four years at Cape Elizabeth, Mr. Carpenter says he can’t recall
> seeing a single student smoke a cigarette.
Golden age syndrome. It happened, you just forget about the negative parts.
Anecdote: when I was in highschool quite recently (2004-2008), many students
were regular smokers or dippers (chew tobacco). At this point, the health
effects of smoking (and to a lesser extent, chew tobacco) were obviously well
understood. Nevertheless, students picked up smoking etc.
Picking up vaping nicotine probably isn't great, but it beats cigarettes (and
probably chew tobacco).
The important thing to remember is that overall drug and alcohol use among
American teens is down, and trending down. "According to a major longitudinal
study of teenagers called Monitoring the Future, high schoolers’ use of
alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs (other than marijuana and vaping) have dropped
to the lowest levels since the survey began in 1976."[0]
Notably, from the above December 2016 article:
> E-Cigarettes (Vaporizers): The rate for e-cigarettes among high school
> seniors dropped to 12.4 percent from last year’s 16.2 percent. _Of note:
> only 24.9 percent of 12th graders report that their e-cigarettes contained
> nicotine_ (the addictive ingredient in tobacco) the last time they used,
> with 62.8 percent claiming they contain "just flavoring." (emphasis added)
> Attitudes and Availability: This year, more 10th graders disapprove of
> regular use of e-cigarettes than last year. For example, 65 percent of 10th
> graders say they disapprove, up from last year’s 59.9 percent. In addition,
> more 10th graders think it is harder to get regular cigarettes than last
> year; 62.9 percent said they are easy to get, compared to 66.6 percent last
> year. This represents a dramatic shift from survey findings two decades ago,
> when 91.3 percent of 10th graders thought it was easy to get cigarettes.
[0]: [https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-
releases/2016/12/...](https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-
releases/2016/12/teen-substance-use-shows-promising-decline)
------
qwerty456127
Schools are for educating, not for prohibiting or judging. If you believe
vaping is bad for kids or whoever - educate them about why do you think so and
let them decide for themselves.
When I was a schoolboy everybody believed kids that smoke don't grow as they
get older, nobody wanted to become a gnome :-)
If there is a real health threat we are to be able to explain it to the
children, if there isn't - we probably should just let the do what they want.
------
foreigner
Why not just set the minimum birthdate to buy nicotine products at 2000, so
only 18 year olds can buy it this year, and future generations cannot? Seems
like that would sidestep the whole "removing people's rights" argument and
gradually just phase it out completely? Has any jurisdiction done that?
~~~
Eric_WVGG
Sure I mean a minimum age to buy cigarettes definitely kept teens off smoking
for the past 50 years
Sorry for the sarcasm, but, like, what?
~~~
foreigner
I'm not suggesting a minimum age, I'm suggesting a minimum birthdate. So the
minimum age will advance automatically - this year it will be 18, next year
19, etc... Put another way, people born on or before 2000 will continue to be
able to buy nicotine, but people born after 2000 will never be able to buy it.
Over time the percentage of the population which can buy nicotine will
gradually dwindle to zero, and there will be no more excuses for stores to
stock it.
AFAIK that approach hasn't been tried anywhere. I think I heard a while back
it was discussed in Russia but never actually happened? I don't see any good
argument for not doing this.
~~~
Eric_WVGG
Thank you for the clarification. Amusing idea.
------
thedirt0115
I wonder how accurate these surveys are. In high school, kids I knew who
_actually_ did drugs wouldn't admit to it (even on an anonymous survey), and
some other kids would answer that they do meth every day because it sounded
funny to write that.
------
aje403
"Young hormonal teenagers seeking to rebel perform risky behavior with
addictive substances"
Maybe they should just sit in the chair and do what they're told instead
~~~
FrozenTuna
Too true.
"ABC is a gateway drug/activity/event. It leads to XYZ, which is way worse!"
Sure, so educate them on real consequences and safety and not the external
imposed consequences. Also, don't lie about ABC since they'll assume you lied
about XYZ as well.
Seriously, who still doesn't see the same 5-10 year pattern at this point?
~~~
aje403
People like to control others and everyone loves a sensationalist national
epidemic for the headlines is what is at the heart of it. I like vaping
though. Doesn't appear to do any lasting harm compared to everything else and
smart kids will wise up and quit eventually.
------
Rapzid
Looking past the safety concerns, I personally have zero interest in vaping
nicotine as an ex smoker.
A lot who have smoked and quit probably understand the pschological aspect;
the constant need, the schedule, the loss of enjoyment from taking a deep
breath of fresh air.. I don't want to be addicted to inhaling nicotine in any
form.
------
philip1209
> Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion
I find this title confusing - I thought it meant that vapes were physically
exploding.
~~~
corobo
Yeah that is exactly why I clicked into the comments
------
alecco
For years it was obvious to me vaping was backed by an astroturfing campaign
on Facebook/reddit/HN/etc. Same for many other things the online techie in
crowd things they came up on their own.
Let's fix this recurring problem.
~~~
portofcall
If you’re right that might explain why this article was just flagged so much
it went from near the top of the front page, to near the bottom of the second.
Edit now the third page.
8 min later, 4th page.
~~~
alecco
And we got downvoted to hell. Yeah, this was by "fans" alone.
~~~
portofcall
Credit to the mods who brought it back to the front page though.
------
truculation
What should the vaping kids do instead of vaping?
~~~
testplzignore
There was a golden era about 10 years ago where it looked like smoking was
finally going to be conquered. The cessation aids were working. Smoking rates
were plummeting. It wasn't cool anymore. It was no longer an impossible
problem - people could quit and never look back.
Then vaping screwed it all up.
I hate the myth - which I assumed is being propagated by the companies that
profit off of it - that vaping was a replacement for smoking, and that people
who vape would otherwise smoke. No. There was a clear period of time between
when smoking was on its deathbed and when vaping exploded.
~~~
strictnein
But vaping isn't smoking. It's a similar looking, but significantly different
activity that carries almost none of the health risks associated with smoking,
both firsthand and secondhand.
------
billfruit
To me, vaping appears to be a significantly less harmful to the body than
smoking: vaping is just inhaling steam infused with nicotine where as in
smoking the fumes of combustion are being inhaled. I also think with vaping
there also no risk of passive smoking. I am in amazement of WHO and other
health bodies dragging their feet in declaring vaping almost harmless compared
to smoking.
~~~
richsherwood
I’ve used the odd vape here and there to stop smoking and I 100% agree with
you that it’s safer than cigarettes but it’s way to early to say that it’s
wholly “safe”. The problem is that if you declare it safe then everyone and
their dog will start vaping, (which then amplifies any outlier problems as
there are more data sources. Aka teens). The unfortunate thing is we likely
won’t see any declarations one way or another for a few years now. The only
way to see the true costs associated with vaping is to let time take its
course. 15 years from now we will have a better idea of what daily vaping does
to the human body and how safe it really is.
------
wonderflpancake
Semi-related, maybe there are some nicotine experts here that can help me:
I smoked ~4 years light/social post high school. Dipped Copenhagen Pouches for
~10 years. I've tried to quite with some success with the longest streak being
2 years. It is incredibly hard and all in the mind.
I found ZYN pouches last year and they have replaced my needs. It "... is a
tobacco leaf-free nicotine product. The nicotine salt used in ZYN is derived
from tobacco leaves, but once the salt is extracted, no part of the leaf
remains." The rest of it is says its food-grade.
Obviously the best would be not to use anything. But would anyone happen to
know if this is still leaving a lot of risk exposure? My thought is its
probably about as safe as I'll ever find, and really just giving me the
nicotine I've become used to without the bad stuff, as nicotine itself is not
what causes problems. But if anyone has more informed opinions that would be
helpful.
~~~
surrogatekey
Well done you.
In terms of recreational nicotine, Swedish snus has the most established, long
term evidence base for very significantly reduced risks.
It's reasonable to expect that a product like Zyn would fare even better than
Swedish snus in long term studies because of the lack of tobacco specific
nitrosamines. Although Zyn doesn't have a long term, formulation specific
evidence base like Swedish snus, there is good evidence for its components.
Pharmaceutical nicotine replacement therapy products like nicotine gum could
be options too. Guessing you've already tried that though... but even the FDA
now says NRT can be used indefinitely.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to Filter Out Fake Referrals and Other Google Analytics Spam - greenvaio
https://megalytic.com/blog/how-to-filter-out-fake-referrals-and-other-google-analytics-spam
======
dazc
This has been discussed dbefore but anything the helps to rid the planet of
semalt.com is always going to get my vote.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The End of the Beginning [video] - dirtyaura
https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2018/11/16/the-end-of-the-beginning
======
Reedx
Some fun tidbits in there.
Amazon's original business plan: "No warehouses, no stock, no shipping"
------
jgrahamc
This was an odd presentation. There were a bunch of interesting data points
and ideas about how the Internet really hasn't change commerce as much as it
will. But then it ends on a bit of a whimper mostly saying "we couldn't see
what was coming in 1993 and we can't tell right now".
------
thedevil
The part that I found most interesting was the idea that we're moving away
from low-capital startups.
Does that mean venture capital is going to have to get much bigger to fund
these ventures? Does it suggest the ballooning of worldwide VC funding isn't
just a bubble? (There's a really interesting chart in WSJ that I can't find
right now). And will a few massive VCs become more powerful while smaller ones
fizzle? What about ycombinator?
Does it mean that technical talent will be more or less valuable? Much more
talent will be needed, but there's probably less opportunity to build a
massive business with a few talented geeks as the low-hanging software fruit
is probably plucked. Talented developers might be less critical to business
success.
~~~
anongraddebt
It's a solid presentation and full of insights (per usual). There were some
puzzling aspects, however, like the point about the shift to capital intensive
startups. Some thoughts:
(1) It isn't clear whether Evans believes the shift in higher capital
requirements will occur in the early-stage or when a successful startup
reaches maturity. The industries left to 'disrupt' do seem to be capital
intensive industries, but that fact alone doesn't preclude 'disruption' from
early-stage, low-capital startups. Technology changes the boundaries of
industries through a process the economist Brian Arthur calls, "abstraction
and redomaining". In Evans' terminology, new enabling layers allow us to do
new things in new ways. I like to think of this as: technological change opens
up competitive attack vectors that are neither inside, parallel to, or
perpendicular with, but rather diagonal to an industry.
[Abstraction for Arthur is different than Evans' use of that term when Evans
describes how ML will provide deeper levels of meaning in comparison to the
query abstraction of Google, FB, and Amazon]
(2) He contrasts Yelp with Door Dash to illustrate this shift. I know for a
fact that GrubHub was a low-capital endeavor in the early-stage. Is it now
capital intensive? Perhaps.
(3) The original search engines, which Google subsequently eviscerated, were
on track to be capital intensive at scale/maturity. This is a direct
counterexample to a simplistic take on Evans' narrative, unless we only care
about the startups that come to dominate a space.
(4) Google may actually have been a capital intensive project as it was two
guys in a garage... who were finishing CS Ph.ds from Stanford. It matters how
we define 'capital'. The natural move is to classify Brin and Page as an "R&D"
line item on the income statement, and say that moving forward "R&D" will be
more expensive and/or other indirect costs will be significantly higher.
However, this doesn't sufficiently clear things up.
\----
I think the most we can say is that the Financial Services, Automotive,
Industrial, Biotech, etc. sectors are more capital intensive than Media and
much of Retail. Though, it isn't clear whether this means 'disruption' is any
more expensive or complex than it was before.
------
leowoo91
Just want to point out phrase about "Netflix eating TV". I would like to give
an example that TV didn't destroy or replaced radio, they are different
technologies and still co-exist.
~~~
lostmsu
Mostly that's because you can't watch when driving.
~~~
Angostura
I'm in the UK and blessed with BBC radio.
* You can listen while driving * while cooking * while gardening * while flicking through the newspaper * while falling asleep.
Wouldn't be without my audio friend.
~~~
mcny
I wish I had more experience with the BBC. On the surface, it seems like a
very interesting experiment. From outside, I imagine BBC would be different
from other broadcast television stations in that it doesn't have do ads (BBC
outside the UK is different, I believe). How much of a difference does it
make? I'd love to hear some insight from people in the UK.
~~~
mrec
I'm a Brit, vehemently anti-ad, but am not a fan of the BBC, and don't support
it (financially or otherwise).
It may have made some sense back when it was the _only_ broadcaster, but now
that it's one of many, and there are proven alternatives for ad-free (e.g. the
HBO subscription model), I can't see any justification for continuing to force
people to pay for a channel they don't like and don't use.
~~~
SuperGent
Whereas I agree with the sentiment, I find that nearly all subscription TV
(Sky, etc) has 15 minutes of adverts an hour. These include the premium
channels, such as Sky films and Sports. I don't see why anyone would pay £60 a
month for these channels to play 8 hours of adverts each a day, and then
complain about the TV licence cost of £150 a year.
~~~
mrec
The only subscription service I use is Netflix, which doesn't have ads and is
cheaper than the TV license. I wouldn't pay for anything that did have ads,
and I don't see why "some people spend a lot on ad-infested channels" in
inconsistent with "some people complain about being forced to pay for
something they don't use".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Swift 5.3 adding support for Windows 10 - cglong
https://swift.org/blog/5-3-release-process/
======
rubyn00bie
I dream of a day when I can write UIs in Swift that work across Windows,
Linux, and MacOS... I don't really even care if it's mostly a shitty bridge
over something else, Swift is just really quite nice to write. I've probably
spent a thousand hours writing swift, but haven't done so much lately (12
months) because iOS just isn't that much fun (for me) anymore.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Generation Y the least engaged - brooksbp
http://www.management-issues.com/2008/8/11/research/generation-y-the-least-engaged.asp
======
brooksbp
So true. I can relate pretty close, doing an internship and seeing these exact
traits.
------
trezor
I'm just in this borderland. I'm born in 1978, and I notice lots of people
around my age feel very little responsibility about the job they are doing.
They try to get by doing minimal effort, and expect to get maximum
compensation.
Unfortunately, this actually works in a job market with a major shortage in
the work-force. Some of them gets paid more than I do ;)
~~~
brooksbp
Great point. Did not consider the competitiveness aspect. There are ~50
students majoring in CS in my graduating class, ~40 class below, <30 below
that...
dear god, our field is already challenging enough, though we could use some
competition amongst us in corporate! :P
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics? - kjullien
Hello HN,<p>I'm a junior dev and have been employed at my current work place for over a year.
I love technology and code, less so humans. A lot less. If I had to guess I would say that I probably have some form of social anxiety/autism that makes it really painful/difficult/demanding for me to interact with other people, so I usually try to keep these "interactions" to a very strict minimum required to achieve the tasks I am attributed.<p>Now, recently, I've come to realize more and more, how much trouble this actually causes in the end for me, as I am perceived as that "odd" guy, that never says a thing, never hangs out at work place events, that you simply give tasks to, and ultimately the job gets done.<p>As I was searching to limit human-human interactions as much as I could, I ended up being treated like a machine, go figure...
I get attributed tasks almost exclusively by sales/marketing people with absolutely no understanding of anything appart from the end result they want. Sometimes that ends up being a 2 word "spec", an unachievable task, some month long back and forths where they realize every other step of the way that what I implemented, which was what they asked, was not what they wanted, etc. So I am starting to get a little fed up by all of this and am at quite a loss when it comes to actually addressing these issues. I try, but I figure that I might as well document myself on the process instead of the usual trial and error one could go through.<p>Anyhow, as stated in the title of this Ask HN, does anybody have any ressources to recommend to someone that just started his carrier and has a demonstrated history of complete lack of such skills ?
Anything is welcome really, books, documentaries, blog post, whatever you might have come across.<p>Thanks!
======
hyperpape
I'm surprised no one has made this distinction, but you're really talking
about three kinds of communication:
1\. Functional communication about the job you're doing
2\. Social conversations
3\. Office politics
There is overlap: #2 will help grease the wheels for #1 and #3, while #1
becomes #3 when a situation is dysfunctional/you rise in the corporate
hierarchy.
Despite the overlap, these are fundamentally different things, and perhaps it
will help your anxiety to realize that you don't have to be a social butterfly
to do well in an office.
Myself, I've gotten a lot better at small talk (a few years doing deliveries
to construction companies as a city-boy with a grad school education will
force you to get out of your comfort zone), and I can crack a joke, but I'm
still not the life of a party, and I come across as a little weird. Still, I
can communicate with people at work.
Be honest, be yourself but do try to get past the hangups you feel, and try to
understand what other people care about, how you can help them, and put them
at ease. You can be on the quiet side and still do those things.
Beyond that, I'd add that you should find some people who write or speak about
workplace behavior. Maybe even read something alien: something from someone in
marketing, sales or a "people" job, and treat it like a matter you can study
and practice, just like anything else you'd do.
~~~
pc86
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but there is nothing dysfunctional
about office politics. Politics is how you get something done with a large
group of people who have different individual goals, that's it. It's a
necessity for achieving something greater than any of those people could
achieve on their own.
~~~
adrianratnapala
> but there is nothing dysfunctional about office politics.
I think hyperpape was saying it is dysfunctional when "... functional
communication" becomes office politics. E.g. if engineers have technical
disagreement about, say, whether to use one or two thread pools in server XYZ,
then they should be able to sort it out at the technical level.
Failure modes are when (a) someone decides to play politics in order impose
their technical vision or (b) the technical discussion becomes a win-or-loose
matter that somehow weighs on the balance of political power.
The bit about "rise in the corporate hierarchy" is because at high levels, you
aren't making purely technical decisions; decisions will inherently involve
steering people rather than things. That means it is right and proper for
communication to deal with the political aspect that would be dysfunctional at
a lower level.
------
nikk1
Definitely read _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ by Dale Carnegie.
However, just reading a book on this subject is not enough. You will actually
have to apply the principles in your everyday life. Dealing with people is
kind of like an art. And just like any art (like painting) you can only get
better with deliberate practice. Doing this might feel a little uncomfortable
at first, but it's how we grow as people. Where I work, employees are offered
tuition reimbursement for taking their official courses
([https://www.dalecarnegie.com/en](https://www.dalecarnegie.com/en)). The
Carnegie courses helped me take the knowledge from these books and put it into
practice. It was incredibly helpful for me, and aided in overcoming some of my
social anxiety.
Another user also recommended toastmasters, which is probably an equal
alternative if you can't get your company to pay for the courses.
~~~
AchieveLife
IMO, the book is over-hyped and not that helpful.
It's incredibly easy to spot people who utilize concepts in that book and are
not being genuine in their interaction. 'Masks' are a great way to prevent
authentic connection.
I've found better utility in a combination of books about positive psychology,
emotions in relationships, and analytical psychology.
~~~
ThePadawan
I've often tried to find better methods of communicating with people, but I'm
still struggling with one major problem:
What do you do when someone literally does not react to anything you say in
any way whatsoever? I could tell them "Yeah, X sounds like a great idea!" or
"Please don't do that, I think X would be very harmful to the project", and
their reaction would be the same "OK thanks, guess I'll go do X now".
Then if doing X results in failure and they learn nothing from the experience.
~~~
trhaynes
I wonder if there's a way to ask the right questions so they can come to the
conclusion that X is a bad idea, on their own and before doing it. For
example, asking about the merits of X, then acknowledging them and asking
about possible downsides. If they don't mention the downside you had in mind,
ask about other potential downsides. You'll also learn more about their
decision-making process, how deeply they've thought through it, what weights
they ascribe to the various pros/cons, etc.
Related to the concept of Strategic Questioning
([https://www.context.org/iclib/ic40/peavey/](https://www.context.org/iclib/ic40/peavey/))
~~~
ThePadawan
Is that really what is happening though?
They don't react to my statement at all - I don't think they disregard it, I
think they don't listen to it in the first place.
------
josephmosby
Two books that really helped me were Nonviolent Communication (Marshall
Rosenberg) and Radical Acceptance (Tara Brach). The specific techniques
outlined in the books were helpful, but I benefited more from the mentality
that you can communicate the same message in multiple tones and receive
different results. Some of my colleagues have also done improv comedy courses
and experienced the same outcomes.
I also received some pretty sound advice around three years into my career:
"just assume that people mean nothing more or less than the literal words they
said to you. Don't read more into it than they actually say." I found that if
I felt awkward about a situation, I was trying to read in between lines to
find some reason that a person secretly hated me or were annoyed by me. They
had never actually said or done anything to indicate that they even thought
twice about me once I walked away, but I made up all sorts of stories about
them in my head.
~~~
skullt
Strictly taking everything people say at face value is great way to become
somebody who "can't take a hint." The problem is that there are many things
people want to communicate but would rather not say because they're likely to
lead to uncomfortable situations.
Suppose a coworker offers you mints or gum every time you speak to them. If
you only take their words literally, you'll think, "Gee, what a generous
person," and miss entirely their true meaning: "Your breath stinks and it's
bothering me but I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'm giving you out
where we can both pretend you fixed the problem before anyone noticed."
~~~
BeetleB
>Strictly taking everything people say at face value is great way to become
somebody who "can't take a hint."
Yes. And yes, that's the way to go.
In my experience, when people of differing backgrounds try to read between the
lines, you will get more damage than when things are simply not said. Absence
of information leaves you somewhat open minded. Wrongly interpreted
information often leads to bad decisions and fruitless battles.
If you've been the person that lots of people attribute stuff to because they
read things between your words that simply did not exist, you'll know what I'm
talking about.
>The problem is that there are many things people want to communicate but
would rather not say because they're likely to lead to uncomfortable
situations.
Completely agree. That's why the standard communication trainings/books focus
heavily on making it safe enough for the other person to speak. There's no
good alternative to that.
>Suppose a coworker offers you mints or gum every time you speak to them. If
you only take their words literally, you'll think, "Gee, what a generous
person," and miss entirely their true meaning: "Your breath stinks and it's
bothering me but I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'm giving you out
where we can both pretend you fixed the problem before anyone noticed."
Sorry - I completely read the first half of the scenario and came to a
different conclusion. As will many others.
I'm going to say what one book on communications essentially said: Utilizing
tact is a poor fix to poor communications. People use tact because they do not
know how to communicate well.
------
_zskd
I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta:
>> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address
your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a
fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists
where you don't need these skills?
>> Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be
crazy to have one. It means you have having a neutral person who helps you
track and set goals, track your moods, and help you process work relationships
and events. Michael Jordan has a coach, brain workers have therapists. (
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277170](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277170)
)
One thing I want to make clear is that this is not going to go away without
actual effort and planning on your part.
I would recommend going to a therapist and having them help you process your
social interactions and set goals for improving yourself. Which, overall, is
what a therapist does. Way more than the cliche "Now let's talk about your
father..."
A lot of good information in here, as well. Read some books, it's good for
you! It makes you smarter! People have taken time to write them for the last
thousand years for a reason!
You can spare the time away from social media to read a book, I promise. And
the sense of achievement you get from finishing a book feels great.
\- "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read.
\- "Getting to Yes" is another excellent book about workplace conflict
resolution.
\- There are a ton of books about emotional intelligence. Find one that sounds
interesting to you and read it.
I'll also recommend "Deep Work" and "Smarter, Faster, Better" for more general
workplace productivity management, but feel free to sleep on those if you feel
like it.
~~~
naeemtee
> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read
I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice.
I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself,
and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist
can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to
waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a robot attempting
to be human.
Which, believe me, is much worse than your (OP) presumably current state of
looking like an awkward mute.
HTWFAIP is like the "cold showers" of social anxiety advice. I'm confident
most people who recommend this book (which is literally everyone) haven't
actually read it. It's popular advice because it's popular advice, not because
it's actually useful.
Dale Carnegie's books were meant for everyday corporate workers to advance
their workplace and sales communication skills - not for socially awkward
developers who lack base social cues. Not only that, it was in a time with
completely different social nuances - unless you really want to be an idiot
carrying around a notebook of everyone's birthdays and asking questions 80% of
the time your mouth opens.
Social anxiety isn't cured by reading books on emotional intelligence and deep
diving into the way you say things. Most self-professed "introverts",
particularly developers, spent most of their lives playing video games and
sitting indoors. They're not well-rounded people in the least.
When you start slowly morphing your life to be more well rounded - taking part
in group activities, getting hobbies, physical activity, etc. the social stuff
takes care of itself. Your goal shouldn't be to excel at small talk - your
goal should be to get to the point where your life is so cool you don't give a
crap how you interact socially.
Burying your head in books and overanalyzing your social interactions isn't
going to solve your social anxiety. Go play soccer.
~~~
mediocrejoker
Maybe you could write more than three words about your experience and what
positive suggestions you have for OP (ie. not "here's what bad advice" and
instead "here is some good advice")
Was soccer really the thing that helped you?
~~~
aero142
I agree with your criticism, but I'm going to add that I think the parent is
correct. The thing that helped me the most was joining rec sports, meeting
people through that, and socializing a lot. This took years, but I eventually
got better at interacting with people. I think the best plan is to find a
hobby that involves other people and do it a lot. Invest in learning skills
like listening to people, telling stories well, playing party games and joking
around with people. The biggest thing it that it takes years. Managing social
anxiety is easier when you are better at socializing. That way you get anxious
but then realize you know what to do and can push through from repetition.
Just like public speaking and stage fright.
------
sopooneo
I absolutely sympathise and struggled with this myself to some extent. One
thing that has worked for me is one-by-one adopting _particular_ tactics that
I see socially successful people using. And I mean I consciously note and
incorporate them individually into my interactions. Eventually they get almost
automatic. That may sound crazy and that it would look contrived. But I have
never been called on it, no one has ever accused me of imitating another, and
as far as I can tell it has been strictly beneficial. Of course, the tactics
that work for me might not be the ones that would fit for you. So shop around!
Watch other people and try some on.
Just for some examples of what I've adopted:
(1) When you first enter into a conversation, whether with a single person, or
a group at a meeting, come in with a big smile. And actually, the worse the
situation, the bigger the smile should be. I got that from my boss's boss.
Likely does no apply at funerals.
(2) When listening to someone explain something, when they pause, repeat the
last few words they said and nod. Like if they say, "We can't add more labor
to the Jennings account, because that would pull from the Labowski project and
THAT just can't happen!". You (nodding understandingly): "can't happen."
(3) When talking to non-technical people, never say the word "no". Get the
idea across, and be just as clear as needed that something is not possible,
but do not actually use that ego bruising two-letter word. This grates like
hell against my technical mind that prefers clarity and actual reality. But
I've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens.
~~~
ryanwaggoner
_But I 've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens._
Maybe because they have a more holistic view of the purpose that you’re all
there for.
As a developer, your job isn’t to say yes or no. It’s to understand the
problem and solve it. If no solution is available within the constraints laid
out, your job is not to deliver the bad news like a robot. It’s to understand
the priority of the constraints and figure out which one(s) to break so you
can _solve the problem_.
Not picking on you, but many developers lose sight of the purpose of what they
do. No business wants or needs any code or developers to write and maintain
it. It’s a means to an end, and a flat “no” betrays an inversion of priorities
in the developer’s mind.
I write all this as a self-employee developer by the way. It’s one reason I
make a lot more than my peers who could code circles around me.
~~~
logfromblammo
Whenever you want to say, "no", just substitute "it will cost more to do it
that way, because....<endless technobabble>"
You will get interrupted somewhere in your explanation. When asked for a less
costly alternative, pitch anything you would be interested in doing, and make
that explanation more opaque to outsiders than the original technobabble. They
don't really care to hear what you have to say; they just need to know that
there is a technical cover (that only the tech employees can really
understand) for choosing the status quo.
Nothing sells quite like an excuse to never change.
~~~
ryanwaggoner
I've spent my career dealing with non-technical decision makers, so I
understand where you're coming from, but this kind of cynicism and
condescension is exactly what I'm talking about.
~~~
logfromblammo
If you are being asked yes or no questions, the decision has already been
reached. Politically, it is best to figure out what the decision is and then
support it by whatever argument or rhetoric that seems plausible.
If the question is "can you do X?" then the important part of the
conversation, defining what X is, has already taken place. You're just there
to support the decision that has already been made. Sometimes your job as an
employee is telling the boss what all their options are, and sometimes it is
telling the boss that what they are already doing is correct.
If you are your own boss, you are necessarily one step removed from the
politics. You can do your customer relationship management directly. Customers
that ask "Can you do X?" without first asking "Can you help us decide what X
should be for us?" can be refused, or quoted a higher price. Self-employed
contracting is in some ways a wholesale rejection of politics, rather than
learning how to play better. your main concern is "How do I pay my bills?"
rather than "How do I avoid getting fired, and possibly get promoted?" As long
as you have enough paying customers, you can more safely uphold your
professional ethics.
Politics isn't about doing the right thing. It's about picking the least-wrong
thing from a restricted list of bad options.
~~~
ryanwaggoner
Not an accurate representation of the type of consulting I do.
------
smilesnd
Personally how I got over my social anxiety and awkwardness was by powering
through. Realizing the things I thought I handled horrible didn't even blimp
on peoples radar during or social interaction. Just being me was more then
enough, and to stop trying to be the person people liked (not in a popular
way, but in a don't want to make people uncomfortable long story). I would
suggest you find one person and go out of your way every day to make small
talk even if it is just seeing how there day is going. Once you get
comfortable with that you be surprise how easy it is to approach others, and
expand your social circle.
Also a side note even the most social person can be really antisocial. At one
contract I had we had one guy lets call Joe that was the social butterfly
would setup after work gatherings for the team and everyone seem to like. One
day at lunch one of our co-workers was going through some bad stuff with his
family, and Joe was pressing a joke on him that was getting him so upset that
I had to hold back the co-worker from beating Joe. After lunch when I got Joe
by himself I try to explain the situation, and why the joke wasn't consider
funny and such in case it was just going over his head and he didn't realize
what he was doing. Come to find out Joe understood, and did it on purposes.
Joe actually disliked everyone on the team, and his way of blowing off steam
was basically picking really random fights. You wouldn't think it from looking
on the outside, but after learning that I start realizing all sorts of things.
Be polite, be considerate, don't take anything personal, don't over think it,
and be yourself. I know easier said then done, but you got to go at it if you
want change.
~~~
arethuza
"Personally how I got over my social anxiety and awkwardness was by powering
through."
I think these are areas that definitely get a _lot_ easier with age.
~~~
tracker1
It may be difficult, but it's often the right approach. Difficult things are
often the right thing when it comes to social interaction and dealing with
other people. Nobody likes it, and unless you're a Narcissist or similar, it
is never completely easy. It tends to take work and practice.
For me, the path out was making myself speak publicly.
------
zengid
1\. Politely greet the people you pass by in the halls.
2\. Practice small talk:
-Ask others about their lives and thoughts and work.
-Listen.
Try to have at least one such interaction per day. This will be really hard at
first, but it gets easier.
Politics is mostly leveraging relationships. You grow them with care and a
little attention over a long time.
Here's a secret. Most people are uncomfortable talking to others. You're not
alone. But once you make friends with others, interactions will be more
enjoyable!
Good luck!
~~~
cbanek
This is great advice. They say the way to become friends is to slowly share
more details about yourself, and learn them about someone else, and be
interested in both.
The only thing I should add is try and REMEMBER what they told you. If you ask
the same question again and again, they will know you aren't really listening,
which is almost worse than not interacting.
------
himynameisdom
I was in your boat not too long ago (honestly, I'm still there but it's become
better), and I realized a simple, yet effective way to interact with people
without having to a.) talk as much and b.) put your opinions out there for a
possible anxiety-inducing interaction.
It really came down to asking good questions. This allows people to help
clarify themselves to you without you having to talk too much. It also builds
your listening skills, which is probably one of the more important
interpersonal skills you can attain. If you ask good questions, people will
seek you out. Win-win for your interpersonal and professional goals.
As for resources, I recommend A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry
to Spark Breakthrough Idea. It's a great book with actionable items to help
you ask people questions they don't normally hear, which will help people not
only understand you better, but help you understand them better. In the end I
wouldn't be surprised if this book helps you help other people flesh out their
ideas, desires and needs.
------
jimmy1
Disclaimer: This is my own personal advice. It is different from what has been
commented so far, but hope it might offer a different perspective or angle.
Don't believe your labels, even one's you give yourself. Why do you think you
are introverted? Is it because you took some Carl Jungean-esque test like the
Myers Briggs and it said you were? Is it because your parents and teachers
always said you were "shy"? Is it because you have anxiety disorder or
depression? You mentioned this last one might be it but aren't sure -- if you
have a hunch, go talk to minimally a therapist to find out.
Toss all that shit out the window. You aren't your labels. You are exactly who
you want to be.
If you don't want to be introverted anymore, don't be. As some one who was the
"shy" kid and introverted from basically age 4 to 19, mainly staying inside
and playing video games, it would probably shock most people to tell them that
I consistently score "INTP" \-- who cares. Take a pragmatic approach to it. If
even the thought of being conversive, over communicating, and going to events
exhausts you, that's not introversion that's probably some disorder -- you
mentioned social anxiety, for me it was depression -- we are human and we were
meant to communicate, be social, and relate to others. I am not saying that to
say "so you are wrong" I am saying that so you understand. If there's
something deep down there that is the root of that, address it. For me, going
to therapy helped. For others -- the root of the social anxiety is a troubled
pass: an abusive relationship, a missing father or mother, or a relationship
that desperately needs mending. We put up our walls and think these things
aren't affecting us, but they do. A lot of people think therapy is for people
who have things "wrong" with them. I think therapy could help every single
person on this earth, no shame in it at all.
The last advice -- treat it like a challenge. Have fun with it. Hack at it.
Try different things. Read. A lot. Listen to your body. Best of luck on your
quest!
~~~
codebolt
Co-signing this advice. I was basically in the same shoes as the OP, being the
quiet office weirdo for my first few years, usually getting very tense in
meetings and so on. These days I'm effortlessly starting discussions, speaking
my mind openly in meetings, etc, and have never had it better professionally
or socially, at work or otherwise. I won't try to distill my personal
transformation into a step-by-step recipe for others to repeat, but at least
know that with persistent effort, change is possible.
~~~
Namrog84
Also there are 2 sets of definitions I believe of introvert and extrovert. The
traditional and the clinical one. I am not sure those are the right labels for
the 2 interpretations.
And I think me and the 2 I've replying to all agree with the latter one. Which
is independent of shyness or outgoingness. It's purely a mental recharge thing
really. Do you feel like you need to be alone after a long time of being with
other people.
This is different from the traditional view which is correlated with shyness
vs outgoing charismatic view.
Also no one is ever just 1 or the other. But can be all of the above at
various points at varying and ever changing degree.
------
Alex63
What an interesting question. Kudos to you for your self-awareness and being
willing to tackle this. There's a lot of good advice in the comments (and a
couple of clunkers).
I found it interesting that you phrased your interest as "learn workplace
politics." From what you describe, it sounds more like this is more an issue
of communications and process. I work in the consulting industry, where
communications and process are often both critical to successful outcomes.
When I was starting out, I found Gerry Weinberg's books _Becoming a Technical
Leader_ , _Secrets of Consulting_ , and _The Psychology of Computer
Programming_ to be very interesting and helpful. In fact, in one of them (I
think it's _Becoming a Technical Leader_ ), Weinberg talks about how an
"introvert" may actually turn out to be the more effective technical leader
because they focus on solving problems instead of talking about them.
Weinberg also talks about not saying "no" (suggested in another comment), and
this is something I've found to be very valuable in consulting. Rather than
just telling someone their request can't be done, or accepting it mutely, tell
them how much it will cost to do it (Weinberg explains this as the "Orange
Juice Test" in _Secrets of Consulting_ ).
I do agree with the comment about using wireframes to confirm your
understanding/spec with your users. There are other techniques that can also
work (e.g., creating user stories with your stakeholders), but the common
element is that you must communicate clearly, concisely, and cooperatively
with others.
Sorry this comment is a little scattershot, but best of luck with your
efforts.
------
ra07312006
Been in your situation for some years.
My anxiety was a drain on my productivity and happiness. In the end, success
mean't understanding it thoroughly.
Limiting human interactions is great for the company's productivity and
terrible for your own personal and emotional growth.
Some of the personal strategies that helped me: \- Going on a technology cliff
for a while, really trying hard to adopt a non-IT/non-code mindset. \-
Separation of work and life \- Understanding the people we work with and why
we don't all get along. \- Your interests will change over the years. What is
cool to code-up today may well bore you at a later date. \- Physical exercise,
this did wonders. Get to the gym, lift weights, get out and run.
Some resources I kept coming back to: \- 16personalities.com or any lengthy
MBTI explanations. \- Podcasts on people and culture. E.g: This American Life
from NPR is a well known one. \- Books, movies, plays and podcasts that I
initially labeled as 'boring' and uninteresting. This was discovered from all
the people I did not vibe with.
Good luck OP. You can do it!
------
tj-teej
I would encourage you to find a mentor who understands you. You'll be
pleasantly surprised at how many engineers identify with the story you told.
I think it's harder to "pick-up" the skills by reading generic, broad advice
in the form of blogs, books, and more effective to find a person you can
trust, who can give you advice on how to handle real situations you're going
through.
You'll be happier/more effective in the short term (as the mentor will guide
you through these interactions), and you'll see the patterns of how to deal
with these situations over the long term (picking up the skills).
You'll pick up the skills faster than you think! Good luck! :)
~~~
meesterdude
To that, this is a service I offer: improving the socialbility and softskills
of developers and teams.
There's some decent advice in this thread. And no matter what you do it'll
take work and change. But if anyone wants to improve on their softskills, i'd
be happy to work with you! [email protected]
------
blihp
There has been some good advice on how you can work on your social skills but
that's only part of your problem. The other part of your problem is the type
of customer you're dealing with. Sales/marketing folks are often highly non-
linear thinkers who live and die by their soft skills. So you are probably
going to find that how they feel about you is going to dominate your
relationship and status with them more than any actual results. In most
sales/marketing environments I've seen you can pretty much toss things like
logic, formal processes and written specs out the window. The mental space
they live in and environment they operate in is very different than say
finance or engineering which tends to be at the other end of the spectrum.
Something to seriously consider is trying to get out of that environment...
it's not for everyone. You don't necessarily need to leave the company, but
rather as you develop your social skills try to start building relationships
in other departments and use them to find a path out. Politics are everywhere
but the degree to which politics drive things can vary considerably from
department to department and is often less dominant in less 'squishy' parts of
the business.
------
zer00eyz
There is a lot to unpack here.
Honestly you have a work problem that is less personal and more process (or
lack there of).
The key to cracking the poor specs is to return specs to the people making the
requests. Learn to do quick and dirty Wireframes and storyboards. It is faster
to draw a bunch of boxes and say "If I build this, is it going to do what you
want". The first few times you wireframe it is going to take you a LONG time
to get a product out - but if you do them for EVERYTHING your quickly going to
get fast at the process. There are tons of tools to help you with this process
so dont be shy about finding one that works for you and dont be afraid to go
to pen and paper.
When your giving these to someone to walk through PRINT THEM OUT - people take
paper an order of magnitude more seriously than an email attachment.
As for your anxiety - take public speaking - learn to give speeches, learn to
tell a story that holds attention. It is a skill and you have to master it
like every other one. You might not ever get to the point of being comfortable
but you might be more willing to endure that discomfort if you know that you
can be effective.
------
jupiter90000
Take it or leave it: I'd say learn more about yourself, how the "extroverted
is good, introverted is bad" culture came about, and how to work with your
strengths. One book I'd recommend if you want to start exploring this more is
"Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet:_The_Power_of_Introverts...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet:_The_Power_of_Introverts_in_a_World_That_Can%27t_Stop_Talking)
------
jppope
Lots of good advice below but given your background you might want to consider
approaching it like a project. Set reasonable objectives and goals, track
progress, hold yourself accountable, and build on previous skills that you
have acquired.
Some other thoughts: \- It's super important that you know that the concept of
introvert/extrovert is pseudo science, same for "left-brained" / "right-
brained"(Ex. [https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-
things-a...](https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-things-as-
introversion-or-extroversion.html).
\- Don't be ashamed of building yourself scripts, or practicing small talk
techniques by yourself. It feels awkward at first but really helps to have
something to fall back to when you need a plan
\- Don't assume that social skills are natural, or innate. Groups like
toastmasters exist because things like public speaking are difficult to
master.
~~~
hyperpape
"Some other thoughts: - It's super important that you know that the concept of
introvert/extrovert is pseudo science, same for "left-brained" / "right-
brained"(Ex. [https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-
things-a...](https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-
things-a....")
The article does not offer any citations, and does not discuss the history of
the concepts of introversion and extroversion. Even the most basic search
reveals that the concept of extraversion is one of the factors of the Big Five
personality model, the most influential model of personality that psychology
has
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits)).
There are literally thousands of studies that have used this model.
------
Sameron
Sounds like your problem is more with taking action than having the right
knowledge or intuition. Having worked in consulting a bit, you come to
understand effective communication is something you just have to do, it's what
you're selling. If you had a feeling the "spec" wasn't quite accurate and
still set out on just following it - guess what? You messed up. Someone else
wouldn't and that makes them better.
You can be an introvert, you might be shy, awkward, whatever. But do you want
to do a good job or not? They aren't mutually exclusive.
When all you need to do is say something or ask questions - it doesn't matter
if you're a smooth talker or a total mess. What matters is doing it.
------
petersonh
I was in the same boat a few years ago, did this class in improv at Second
City specially chartered to socially anxious people and it was one of the best
decisions I've ever made:
[https://trainingcentre.secondcity.com/s/sc-class-
category/a2...](https://trainingcentre.secondcity.com/s/sc-class-
category/a2g1H000000XvyKQAS/improv-for-anxiety)
Hopefully they have it in your city, or a similar resource, what was nice was
that everyone was there for the same reason. The first class was very
difficult, but it became easier and a lot of fun by the end. Hope that helps!
------
monksy
A few things:
1\. No one considers you "that odd guy"
2\. No one is that worried that you don't hang out at work place events
Your manager and coworkers should see that you get stuff done. For the most
part, people don't care that much to evaluate you for being the odd guy or how
social you are. People will judge you if your outward behavior are standard
deviations off or if you're difficult to work with.
\---
Your interaction with the marketing team shows that you need to learn some
confidence about speaking up on things that aren't very clear. It's going to
take practice to fix that. Escalate higher up to get guidence on that.
------
tyingq
If you like the approach of just diving into the deep end: Toastmasters.
[https://www.toastmasters.org](https://www.toastmasters.org)
------
tekkk
My dear boy, kjullien. I wish I was at your work place to help you but alas, I
am not so this short message will have to suffice.
There is a lot of different parts for improving your social skills. Just
getting out and talking to more people is probably a good way to start. But
you probably want specific instructions? :) If your anxiety stems from some
insecurities that you can help to reduce that would be a good idea to do.
Starting going to the gym was really life-changing for me. Again, I wish I was
there to show you how easy it actually is once you get past the initial
discomfort.
But social skills, yes. Having a great group of friends whom you can talk to
in regular basis I think is an excellent way of keeping those skills sharp.
However, if you find yourself lacking on that part and have been for a long
time then it's kinda difficult to start. What I recommend then instead is
starting a hobby in which you can practise them. I have myself enjoyed
improvisational theatre immensely! Hopefully you can find a group that is
beginner friendly _and_ you can get over your performing shyness (I am still
not there and I have been doing it for two months).
Anyway, probably any hobby that requires high amount of social interaction is
good. Impro, I think, forces you to build up that wit and social finesse which
helps a lot with any basic interactions. Building up social skills __will
__take time so don 't give up when you feel that it's no working. Reading up a
book or two won't help you I'm sorry to say, you have to get out and do it -
whatever form it might be. It's doable, the only limit will be how far _you_
are willing to go.
------
S_Bear
I was awkward and weird when I started out, but took some steps to get better.
Here's what worked for me, YMMV:
1) Work retail: If you can, get a 2-4 hr a week PT retail gig, working
register. Nothing forces you to get better at micro-conversations than having
20-30 short term disposable interactions.
2) Semi-follow your local sports teams. I don't watch baseball or football,
but I always know how the Twins and Vikings are doing. If I' talking to
someone who's really into it, I just nod along and agree with whatever point
they're making about free agency, starting rotations, etc. Earns me a lot of
goodwill with no actual effort on my part.
3) Know people's names and have canned responses ready. Salespeople thrive on
this. Whenever I see people I acknowledge them and we have an exchange. "Hey
Bill! How's life" "Another day in paradise" "At least it's not snowing,
right?" Done. Goodwill up, no extra effort. The point of these conversations
is to establish basic humanity to both sides.
4) Practice: It took a lot of trial and error to get good at small talk. It's
going to be stilted and weird at first, but when it starts clicking it's
awesome.
Bonus: Receptionists, maintenance people, and other 'para-professionals' in
your building are often invisible, hear a lot of office politics, and are
generally fun, down-to-earth people. If you become friendly with them, they
generally keep you informed of office gossip outside of channels that are
actually competing with you. And they're a lot of fun to go to sporting events
with (Shoutout to Tony the Custodian!).
------
thisisit
I was in your place and slowly getting better where people actually say that
they like interacting and talking with me. What really helped?
1\. Meditation and specific one at that called - metta meditation. Most of the
time issues lies with the fact that we as introverts feel unfulfilled and
think something is wrong with us.
But, there is nothing wrong with us. This meditation helps with that and makes
you realize that you are fine as they way you are.
2\. Tiny habits:
One of the biggest problem for me was that I would wake up one day and barrel
ahead trying to be another person. But the problem is you cannot change in a
day. So, you try and try and eventually give up.
Then I read about BJ Fogg's research:
[https://www.tinyhabits.com/](https://www.tinyhabits.com/)
And I took another route to thins. I wake up every day and take one thing and
only one thing I want to do.
Let's say "small talk". Then I think of a person I can try this on. So, I set
an intention to "small talk" once I meet this person. And because I am aware
of this intention I tend to see how they react. Most of the time it's pleasant
surprise which makes me feel good and helps reinforce the habit.
3\. The mandatory book:
[https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-
Magnet...](https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-
Magnetism/dp/1591845947)
It has lots of techniques. So, take it slow. It can take sometime before you
see the changes.
------
purplezooey
It's just life at tech companies. You can muddle through it as long as there
is a minimum of actively toxic, sabotaging, ruthless political people. At some
places there are too many to make it worth it and you have to find another
job. A good resource is saving up enough money so you can tell a job to bugger
off if you need to.
------
sjg007
1\. Find a therapist who specializes in adult autism and cbt. 2\. One thing
that will help is to develop your small talk. Look people in the eye, ask how
they are and the default option, “any and for the weekend?” If it’s wednesday
or later. If it’s monday or tuesday and the first time you interact, ask how
was your weekend? Be prepared to give answers yourself that are more then 1
word and allow some basic questioning and responses. That’s all you need to do
to get started. You can literally script it out to start and over time it will
get easier. The trick about being an effective communicator is actually to
just actively listen.
There are some self help books on CBT too that will help. Find some written by
academics from reputable schools.
~~~
sjg007
Another thing you can do is practice this with family and friends, your local
barista and everywhere else. Think of it as being this opportunity to have a
unique relationship with every person you meet.
------
Myrmornis
What a lot of people do is, instead of giving their own opinion, assess what
the most respected people are likely to say, and try to say it before they do.
Viewed solely on its performance rather than on its intrinsic worthiness, it's
probably a good strategy.
------
makerleader
I am currently developing a program/course to deal exactly with this issue
(15+ years as a team lead/manager/director, started in systems admin and
development). I want to take a few students one on one through the course.
Feel free to email me: [email protected].
I was going to wait a few weeks, until I had more content ready, but might as
well start now.
If anyone else is running into something similar, shoot me a note, we can get
a 5-6 person study group together and I'd happy to provide some generic
basics, and do a deeper dive into the specific issues you may be having (free
of charge obviously, hopefully in exchange for some feedback).
~~~
arethuza
I had some 1 on 1 leadership training years back and it was actually very
effective - what was particularly horrific (from my perspective) was when I
was videoed in one-on-one meetings with senior team leaders.
Definitely think that training helped me a lot and one small thing I still
remember to do all the time is to always ask "What do you think?" when
discussing things with people!
------
thepp1983
Firstly Be above the politics. Do your job and just be yourself and be nice
and polite to your work mates.
You lack communication.
When you get a crap spec like the ones you have obviously got. You should
reject it with the exact reasons why the spec was insufficient.
Tell them politely and clearly what is insufficient about it. If you have a
direct superior approach them first with your concerns about each spec and get
them to help you to setup a meeting where you hash out the specifics.
There is no magical answer to getting this right. You just need to learn when
to be assertive and just be clear, concise, logical and polite and ask for
clarification if something is unclear.
It works wonders.
------
ravenstine
I'm going to provide some contrary thoughts.
1\. Your superiors should be shielding you from workplace politics. Developers
and engineers shouldn't be subject to most of it. If your work is miring you
in politics, get out ASAP. You should always be looking for the next gig, and
this is one reason why. This isn't happening to you because you are
introverted; it's because your workplace isn't as nice as you deserve.
2\. Don't feel bad for being that "odd" guy. Chances are people aren't
thinking of you that way as often as you think. One way you can remedy this,
however, is to find at least one workplace friend. You don't have to be
everyone's friend, but finding at least one person on your wavelength helps a
lot. If you don't find this person then, again, find another company to work
for.
3\. You're not going to change the company you currently work for. If you stay
with them, try to maintain a zen-like state while doing unpleasant things like
communicating with other departments. While I'm sure you can work on our
communication skills, it sounds like they are having you work with people who
suck at communicating to engineers. Most of the time, you should be working
through someone who can communicate through both parties and know what they
want, while you focus your time on engineering. If your company doesn't
already do this, it's unlikely that you are going to be able to fix it. Find a
different company that doesn't expect developers to simultaneously act as
project management or liaisons. Sometimes that kind of thing is necessary in
our profession, but if it's constantly driving you up a wall then it's likely
the company's problem, not yours. Not everyone should be expected to be good
at such things, so don't let it get you down.
I keep saying that you should look out for a better position at another
company, which is what you and everyone should do. Why? Not just because there
are companies out there looking for people _like you_ , but if your current
company wants a developer to deal with that kind of bullshit(yes i know it's
subjective), then you can help them by freeing up that position for some other
developer who will take it with a smile.
------
motohagiography
Probably the two most important works on the topic in 30 years:
[https://www.amazon.ca/Power-Some-People-Have-
Others/dp/00617...](https://www.amazon.ca/Power-Some-People-Have-
Others/dp/0061789089)
[https://www.amazon.ca/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-
With...](https://www.amazon.ca/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-
Without/dp/0143118757/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1542736851&sr=1-1&keywords=getting+to+yes)
------
grawprog
I'm sorry I can't remember the exact title but i read a book on non-verbal
communication a while back that was really helpful for learning to read body
language and helping me adjust my own body language to come across as more
friendly. It's really surprising how much just changing your posture and
paying attention to your facial expressions really helps with talking to
people. It also helps you pick up on their emotinal state whether they're
nervous or anything. Any book that teaches those concepts should help.
Also, not really a resource but something a friend of mine told me years ago
that always stuck with me and really helped me with the way I am around
people. She told me being shy and introverted isn't much different than being
arrogant. It means you're more concerned about the way your words or actions
will be perceived by other people instead of actually paying attention to
other people. Most people, even extroverted people, get nervous talking to
people, especially strangers. The way I see it other people are just as
nervous talking to me so it is kinda selfish to sit there and be introverted
and make other people reach out to me or talk to me. I've tried to keep this
inind over the years when I meet or talk to people and it's helped. Even if
i'm uncomfortable in a situation just understanding that whoever i'm talking
to probably is also and it helps me relax and usually being relaxed helps the
other person relax and where I used to have a lot of awkward conversations
with people I find they flow more naturally now the less I worry.
------
kyle_martin1
Resources:
1\. The Ask A Manager Podcast and the audiobook on Audible.
2\. Take a co-leadership course or read their book
[http://coleadership.com](http://coleadership.com)
------
mrdoops
Lift some weights. It might seem unrelated, but it's very crucial to improving
your ability to deal with anxiety of all kinds. If you don't have experience
around weight training equipment, then pay for small group training. Not only
will you get a low-stakes opportunity to practice socializing, but the weight
training will improve your testosterone production and your ability to
regulate anxiety.
I should've done small group training years ago. Such a good investment.
~~~
WhompingWindows
How does lifting weights teach OP about office politics? Seems tangentially
related at best...
~~~
creep
Going to the gym is daunting for a person with social anxiety and/or autism.
It's often loud, crowded, and besides that it's filled with complicated
machines you have to learn about before using.
When I walk into a gym my brainstem screams: "fucking RUN".
Pushing yourself to exercise in front of people who seem more powerful and
more confident than you is a good way to gtfo of your comfort zone-- and it's
a low-risk way to do so. Because while it seems like a big deal to potentially
make a fool out of yourself at the gym, it's not and nobody actually cares
about the skinny guy in the corner fumbling around with the leg press, and
most of those people you will never see again. The people you do see again
have an essential but implicit bond to you: you're all trying to improve your
physicality. Everyone there was once a beginner. Zero risk.
You can translate any confidence gained at the gym to the workplace. It shows
up in the way you walk and the way you carry yourself in general, and you
become less fearful of situations that look, at first, to be very high risk.
------
jkingsbery
A few things come to mind:
1\. I agree with the others who said it's a thing you need to practice. While
talking to people can be stressful, talking to people about things you're
interested in is much less stressful. Find something in common and talk about
that.
The connection doesn't need to be done entirely in person. For example, if you
and your coworker share an interest in some area (space flight; unit testing;
a particular video game; etc.), and you come across an interesting article,
write a quick note to that person saying "Hey, saw this, thought you might
find it interesting. I like how..." Then when you see that person, there's a
good chance they'll say "thanks for sending me the article on Topic X that we
both enjoy!" and a relatively low-stress conversation will follow.
2\. On the other hand, it helps to set limits. If the sales people you work
with tend to be more challenging, see if you can involve your boss, a product
manager, or someone like that as a filter. Set-up time on your calendar
blocking off meetings. Meet people half way, certainly, but also make it clear
what you need to be successful.
------
conductr
I wish you luck but here are some things to keep in mind that you can do if
you find yourself not into the therapist/self help stuff for whatever reason.
You can get better at knowing what they need vs what they ask for and push
back in the form of raising concerns. Realize this is brainstorming and
email/slack suck at this. Get in a room and draw what you’re going to build.
Tell them why ask x won’t be useful/won’t work. Lastly, encourage a project
manager type person to get involved even if informally. Your boss might be a
good person for this if you have no one else. They can do the back and forth
and some of what I said previously if you can’t. Also have some sort of
project committee so only approved projects get your attention. Lastly, charge
your cost to their budget. They won’t waste your time for long when it cost
them a bonus assuming your company is setup that way. Get the finance guys
involved. If there’s a culture of wasting time/resources they can help come up
with a plan and they may own many of these ideas.
A lot of this assumes you’re at a bigger corporate company so YMMV.
------
onemoresoop
Is there a chance that your introversion is caused by not feeling comfortable
around a certain type of people? Are you always introverted even with a close
group of friends? Chances are that you're not compatible with a certain type
of people but there are ways to overcome that. First try to understand where
all this is coming from, do a lot of introspection, see a professional if you
can. Take a personality test and read about it. However inaccurate the MBTI
is, I found that it helped me a lot. Second, I found that my voice was a bad
feedback loop, I'd attempt to weakly say something and people would not even
hear me and that would make me close within myself even more and when I had
the chance to say something I would avoid it based on pervious experience.
Eventually I had become comfortable in my unconfortable silence. This can be
unlearned and should be unlearned at all costs, it will save your sanity later
on. Learning to project my voice has helped me quite a bit. Also being
prepared helped me as well.
------
mattyfo
Have you considered therapy? It sounds like you need some self-reflection
skills and a therapist could help you develop those skills.
------
jeremybeckham
My recommendation is to go to your team lead/manager and tell them what you
wrote in the first two paragraphs. Ask them for help in developing those
skills.
My experience has been that learning office politics is more about having a
trusted mentor that is good at doing this. You are looking for a mentor that
would bring you to meetings and into conversations where you can observe what
they do, what the other people do, and take notes. Have a debriefing session
afterwards to discuss why you believe each person behaved or said the things
they did. What you will gain by this is experience in looking at interactions
from multiple viewpoints.
Once you can start predicting those reactions by anticipating other people's
viewpoints, then social interaction becomes much easier. You aren't caught off
guard nearly as much, and the level of anxiety goes down significantly.
~~~
twoquestions
That sounds like a wonderful way to get backstabbed, and suddenly be the one
responsible for all the company's failures before you're fired.
------
dangrover
Aside from Dale Carnegie, I found "Stealing the Corner Office" very useful
(despite the cornball title).
------
rm_-rf_slash
Workplace.stackexchange.com is a good Q/A resource for office conflict and
other kinds of workplace issues.
------
tonymet
Lots of good advice, so I'll attack it from a different angle.
In my experience step 0 is to acknowledge that these personality traits are
not essential parts of your identity. We all go through periods where we are
more or less introverted.
That doesn't mean change is easy, but it's an important foundation for making
the change.
After that I would focus on practice above all else. I would seek out social
activities ( hiking groups, maker groups, charity groups, etc) where you can
casually be social. Try to take on leadership roles (e.g. organizing meetups,
taking minutes, recruitment, etc).
There's tons of great advice, but much like learning a language, the best way
to learn the "social language" is by doing.
Getting this experience out of the office first is a risk-free way to build
your social strengths.
Really great topic thanks for bringing it up.
------
oerb
Best Video Blog on how to live a good live, and I think is your real question,
is Philosphers Notes from Brian Johnson:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/PhilosophersNotes](https://www.youtube.com/user/PhilosophersNotes)
And the simple and best Book to Live with your special Guys in the Company is
"Assertivenes at Work" from Kate Back: [https://www.amazon.com/Assertiveness-
Work-Professional-Busin...](https://www.amazon.com/Assertiveness-Work-
Professional-Business-Management/dp/0077114280/)
At the End I take a buddhism trail and got rid of this Feelings blowing my
emotions to this bad shapes you discribes. Begin with simple Meditation by
Youtube lessons.
Live long and prosper Oerb
------
gigatexal
Read this: (warning it’s bleak) [https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-
gervais-principle-...](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/)
------
chickenfries
This show is pretty good, but take it all with a grain of salt and recognize
that the experience of the two hosts is not representative of all engineering
jobs. Still lots of good advice though:
[https://softskills.audio/](https://softskills.audio/)
------
jasonlotito
1\. Being introverted has nothing to do with having autism or social anxiety.
If you honestly think this is the case, seek out a doctor, otherwise you are
just mocking those with an actual condition. Seek real help and stop using
this as an excuse.
2\. The issue you are having isn't workplace politics. It's because as a
developer, you have a responsibility to solve problems.
> what I implemented, which was what they asked, was not what they wanted"
That's your responsibility to speak up and help them solve problems. A
developer who only does what people ask him to do will never get far. They are
the literal code monkey. If you want to be successful, you need to work with
people to help solve their problems. This means understanding why they are
asking for things.
3\. Honestly, it needs to start with you.
> I ended up being treated like a machine
That's because you probably treat them like machines.
> I love technology and code, less so humans. A lot less.
That's pretty insulting, and people are quick to pick up on how you treat
them, and treat you like that in return.
The best thing you can do for yourself is assume that everyone else is
honestly trying to do the best job they can, and honestly try to help them
succeed at that job. Most people are like this. You'll have people lie to you
and tell you to treat people poorly or assume bad things about people, but
those are just dicks. Most people just want to do their job, do it well, and
get home. Help them do this. Respect them as people who are just as valuable
as you. But if your attitude comes off as not caring about their needs and
only wanting to get back to he code, well, you aren't really doing your part.
Help others achieve success. That's what a lot of these books will tell you.
Anyways, really, what I wanted to say was to seek out a professional if you
think you have a condition, or stop using it as an excuse. It's insulting at
best.
------
watwut
I would suggest to read up on requirements gathering, analysis and maybe
negotiation. One thing is small talk and socialization - but your problems
with marketing and sales are not that. The issue is not that you don't have
good enough small talk. It is that you don't know what you are expected to do.
That is literally requirements gathering.
Reading up on that should you allow to formalise process of communication a
bit more. That in turn helps even to highly social people. It should help you
even more.
Lastly, guys "that you simply give tasks to, and ultimately the job gets done"
are awesome to work with, even if they don't chat much. Really. Have collegues
like that and they are great to be in office or team with.
------
dominotw
One common trait that makes introverts introverts is that we all are driven by
the relentless desire to be thought of as a good guy, to live up to the image
that others have built about us, to live up to the image that you have built
about yourself.
Hard to tell why only some ppl 'suffer' from this. Maybe years of praise by
parents/school teachers that you are some sort of 'good guy' and you yourself
start believing that be to true at some point.
You could do a million things to overcome it but all of those would work
shortterm and you would revert straight back to your introvert self as long as
you have desire to be thought of as a good guy. Only sustainable "solution" to
this problem is solve this issue.
------
arduinomancer
1) Apply your normal engineering problem solving skills. This can be solved
like any other problem. Say you’re bad at a certain type of math problem what
do you do? Practice and apply trial and error. What’s your strategy? What
worked and what didn’t?
2) You need to brute force it. You probably have a tendency to avoid social
situations instinctively or anything that might lead to a social interaction.
Stop doing this. Whenever a possibility of social interaction arises, force
yourself to do it. Even if it’s painful just look at it as training.
3) If you brute force it long enough eventually you end up loosening up and
becoming a more fluid, relaxed, and confident person.
------
tracker1
The best way out of it may well be to force yourself when you're
uncomfortable... Give presentations at tech user groups, as an example. It's
uncomfortable, but if you do it a few times, it gets easier. Just make certain
you have time to prepare, practice and leave 1/5 to 1/6 of your time for
questions at the end and/or interruptions for questions.
Avoiding interaction, will only make you less comfortable with them over time,
then the next thing you know, you're well into your senior years and lonely.
The one thing you do want to be aware of is not talking too much in social
situations... ask questions and listen.
------
slededit
In your case I think the solution is pretty clear. Try hanging out more with
your colleagues. If you don’t enjoy it then consider it “work” and part of the
job.
You don’t have to stay the whole time or even talk too much. Just make an
effort to be there which will be noticed and appreciated. It’s ok to leave
early as long as you do so quietly.
The flip side to you not socializing with your colleagues is they consider it
a rejection by you.
These events are supposed to be fun and for you they are not. I get that this
isn’t fair but if you want to solve the problem of not being seen as a machine
you have to try.
------
LusoTycoon
48 laws of power
chapter names already give you some pointers
~~~
jsisto
Yes. This book ^ I look at it as a guide for power to not be used against you.
This book has greatly improved my life.
------
NicoJuicy
You don't need office talk for small talk, try to interact on events and show
an effort ( you can leave early fyi).
The thing you want to address is, when they give you a 2 word spec, talk about
the issue before implementing it. The chance that your interpretation of a 2
word spec == their interpretation = 0.
And yes, just talk about it upfront.
The flow and what's possible, for hard things, try to get a middle ground, so
a 4 week implementation becomes a 3 week implementation.
A 20 minute talk that can reduce 15% of labor is a win-win.
I've reduced a lot of unnecessary labor because of small talk :P
------
malvosenior
Read this immediately: [https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-
principle/](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/)
------
oerb
An Idea of How People react to me:
1\. All men are born whith the habit of mirroring. It's the way childs learn.
2\. When people mirroring you, they mirror your inner fealings subconsciously.
3\. When your personal fealings are in a bad shape people see it and do not
want to share them by the automatic mirroring process.
4\. So first at all find ways to get in an inner good mood, find peace and
love in your inner selve and the people will want to mirror you.
PS: That is why smile allone is an bad advice. The inner mood they will mirror
would disface every trained smile technique person.
------
ballenf
The Syntax podcast just did an episode on some strategies for getting along at
work.
[https://syntax.fm](https://syntax.fm)
My one piece of advice is to treat the problem like a really hard programming
challenge -- it's a problem that definitely _is_ solvable by you but will take
a lot of work and learning a lot of new skills. You may never enjoy it or be
the best at it, but you absolutely can do it.
Clearly you're on this path already by asking the question.
------
wizardofmysore
I suggest you read "how to talk to anyone, anytime and anywhere" by Larry
King. It is not a bs self-help book. It is written by an expert in a very
professional way. There are actionable insights in it. I am a senior engineer,
I used to find it hard to make conversation but now it's easy. The main take
away for me is that the easiest way to start a conversation is to make it
about the other person, people love to talk about themselves.
------
drywater
You will never stop being treated as a machine, especially in big corp.
As for the anxiety, stop trying so hard. Your goal is to find people that you
actually like. You can’t really be friends with people that you despise or
have nothing in common with.
Look for what people say or do in common areas as a kitchen or a chat and try
to relate without pushing yourself.
Play the game on your own terms and keep in mind that it’s not really a
competition. You’re trying to have fun.
------
jondubois
It's easy.
\- Lie
\- Cheat
\- Take credit for other people's work.
\- Deflect blame to other people.
\- Make friends with other jerks in the company and collaborate with them to
distort facts in your favor at the expense of value creators within the
company.
\- Once you climb high enough in the hierarchy, start using your 'friends' as
scapegoats for everything that goes wrong; you gotta keep feeding the beast...
Even when the meat gets scarce.
\- While you're doing all this backstabbing, be sure to keep a smile on your
face.
~~~
matz1
To able to utilize these skill without getting into trouble yourself is hard.
I myself have no issue of using these skill, but its not easy. There are lack
of courses or books to teach you this.
~~~
jondubois
Just talk loud, talk a lot, smile a lot, keep complimenting your superiors and
berate your subordinates often; that makes you look tough and your superiors
will love it.
------
qznc
Many techies (myself included) do not like smalltalk. There is no point to it.
An interesting theory about that is "The Psychopath Code" by Pieter Hintjens
[0]: People do it because it makes detecting psychopaths easier. You could try
to turn it into a game. Find the psychopaths at work.
[0]
[http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths](http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths)
------
mindcrash
Been there, done that.
This is not something you can solve and/or fix with a book.
Find a good job coach, whom you trust (VERY IMPORTANT), to talk to and
practice with and then practice, practice, practice in, well, practice.
Also don't expect to "magically" get a lot better at this stuff. It will take
a while. And with "a while" I mean months, not days.
But you really should start with finding a good job coach who you can trust.
Good luck!
------
closeparen
The most basic and familiar form of office politics is a good bug report: it
lays out exactly what the problem is, why it’s important, and proves that
you’re a competent, motivated partner in figuring it out, not just “holding it
wrong.” This is bread and butter of the political task of getting someone
else’s resources allocated to help you.
------
renegadus
Human interaction isn't so hard, you just need to view it as a problem to be
solved, just like everything else.
There are some good YouTube videos that break this stuff down:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/charismaoncommand](https://www.youtube.com/user/charismaoncommand)
------
rc_hadoken
Human Nature -- Robert Greene \--all you need and you will have to accept it
not just Grok it intellectually.
------
onemoresoop
Break your comfort zone. Try taking some improv classes. Once you break the
ice it actually becomes fun.
~~~
onemoresoop
You might also be interested into this comment someone made on a different
post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18494918](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18494918)
------
mettamage
This is a very tough question. When I was a lot younger I had a similar
question regarding dating. Let me transpose the advice from there what will
likely have some added value for this as well. I have friends who are like
you, I also see what they do (not much). It pains me to see it since I was in
a similar situation once in my life. Now I'm still weird and odd but I'm also
social! :D And people seem to like that.
A couple of tips on finding truth in the social arena:
1\. You have to find the truth by experimenting yourself. Set social
experiments up deliberately and in a controlled environment [1].
2\. Psychologists are mostly wrong due to the replication crisis. I didn't
know this at the time, I've suffered the consequences I'm overfitted to detect
human biases. I found that I know how people work much better than any
psychology book (I did a bachelors in it). I also tested/experimented a lot
more than any psychologist because I don't need to publish papers.
3\. Self help books are about as wrong as psychology text books. My tip: go
for the great classics (e.g. Dale Carnegie), ignore the rest unless you know
that that person has a very similar profile like you.
4\. When you experiment be ethical but err a little bit on the side for
choosing for yourself. Chances are that you're too careful anyway. Slight
transgressions are fine as long as you learn from them and rectify your
mistakes. If you can't make mistakes then you're not in a place to learn
anyway. My worst transgression was saying outrageous opening lines and looking
at the effects of them [2].
5\. Find books via HN just use the search bar or some aggregated data analysis
on what books HN uses. That'll be a good application of 3.
With these tips you can find truth: ignore most books, test things yourself,
do take the books for people who were like you (that's not an easy tip), err
on the side of making mistakes. Personally, I haven't found an easier way and
I learned this over 10+ years.
A couple of tips on dealing with anxiety:
1\. Try to find core positive emotions that are natural to you. Mine are (in
order): curiosity, fantasy/imagining things and playfulness (playfulness is
already tricky). Identify it, frame everything like that. Curiosity goes
really well with finding truth and experimenting. "How does this work?" is a
question I often asked and tested.
2\. Learn meditation, also helps in boosting emotional intelligence. I can
write a book about it but I'll recommend you one instead. Search Inside
Yourself from Chade-Meng Tan. Best book I know on the topic (I read a lot of
them).
One tip on politics itself:
1\. I don't know where I read it but it stuck. Social skills and political
skills are different. There are people with good social skills who are not
good politically. The reason is that political games are about groups not
individuals. Learn how to divide and conquer (i.e. talk to multiple people 1
on 1 and push your ideas through that you are convinced about and think are
good for the company).
On finding coaches:
1\. Coaches are very hard to find. I've had several of them. The one that
worked best for me was the one that showcased and demonstrated what was
actually possible by doing it himself. All looked really social and good. But
you need someone who's able to demonstrate and give real-time live feedback
even during the conversation (in a covert way via text for example for obvious
reason, or in ear also helps though I never tried that).
On using advice:
1\. I am a sponge and would be too easily influenced by advice. A couple of
questions you need to ask yourself for taking advice: (1) does the advice make
sense to you? If it doesn't then why not (possibly do a couple of Google
searches). If it still doesn't then leave that particular advice as on hold.
Don't discard it but put it on the backlog and don't use it.
On dealing with people you tell that you're doing this:
1\. If people are weirded out that you're methodical and as scientific as
possible about this then discard that opinion. It's tough for other people to
know what you go through since they never had this problem themselves. Even
good empaths may not be able to empathize with you (though some obviously do,
they are good empaths after all).
[1] i.e. not work but with strangers or if there can't go too much wrong then
in your work environment.
[2] Spoiler alert: almost all my predictions were off, you can say some
ridiculous stuff and have it do something other than completely mop you over
the floor, friends who struggle with this don't believe it. Then I show them
and they still don't believe it. Then I show them 5 to 10 times and they might
consider believing it _some day_. Please experiment yourself.
------
denimalpaca
I haven't seen anyone post this here: Consider seeing a therapist. If you
think you might be on the spectrum, having a professional diagnose you can go
a long way towards understanding how you specifically are having a hard time
with social interactions.
------
AchieveLife
Talk to a psychotherapist. You are having social anxiety and they are best
equipped to help you.
EDIT: It's also important to note that introversion does not equal poor
interpersonal skills. It's about what environment an individual feels
rejuvenated.
------
rgrieselhuber
The best advice (though likely to be unpopular) is learn the basics of
evolutionary psychology and body language. There is a lot more to learn after
that but if you don't know those, there is too much you won't be able to see.
~~~
navait
Isn't this like learning assembly to program python?
~~~
rgrieselhuber
It’s more like learning the alphabet if you want to read.
------
sizzle
Marketing should be working with a UX design team to get the design specs
right, so devs aren't burdened by having to keep redoing their work cause some
marketer didn't know what users actually wanted/needed.
------
brandall10
Highly recommend "The Passionate Programmer" by Chad Fowler.
------
jmkni
This will be a controversial one, but have you tried alcohol?
The next time there’s a staff night out, go to it, drink, lose your
inhibitions and talk to people.
~~~
deathanatos
Not that this comment is good advice, but that this comment is downvoted, but
the comment about being a backstabbing, lying, traitorous arse survives… We
have a long way to go as a species.
_A_ drink with coworkers is probably okay. "lose your inhibitions", however…
no. Remain in control of your faculties, please. I've had to help more than
one coworker who has drunk too much, and it is obnoxious, and it _does_ lower
my opinion of that person.
Don't feel obligated to drink alcohol, either. I wouldn't question it, and
there are plenty of drinks that visually aren't distinguishable from alcohol
if you need a cover (e.g., coke vs. rum and coke, sprite vs. gin and tonic),
and a drink in the hand is a nice stressball of sorts. (And I've used "I have
to drive later." as a reason to not have alcohol, but still enjoy the company
of others.)
~~~
roenxi
I don't want to be judgmental, and say this with the mildest of intentions
(grandparent is just trying to make a contribution, and it would be good
advice for some people), but as you point out - "lose your inhibitions" is
_worse_ advice than "be a traitorous arse". To someone who doesn't know how to
do something, 'alter your mental state and hope that works' is useless advice
because holding a drink doesn't magically teach you anything. In addition, the
realistic worst case scenario of "be an arse" executed badly is it doesn't
work out for you and you stop. The realistic worst case of purposefully upping
your alcohol intake is physical danger and lawsuits if you are purposefully
exploring new levels of inebriation.
Plus the original question is office politics. Socialising is a small
component of office politics if you don't want to socialise.
~~~
deathanatos
That's an interesting way to look at it, and you're not wrong. The way I was
considering it when I wrote the post was more along a consideration of the
Golden Rule; that is, "drinking" is really only a danger to yourself (at
least, to some degree; it is possible, I suppose, that you make decisions
while under the influence that _do_ effect others), whereas the other comment
I was referring to is pretty encouraging active harm to other individuals.
(Although, I suppose if you expect that that's the playing field, one could
argue that it isn't a violation of the Golden Rule? That is, if it is "par for
the course"? Nonetheless, it seems like a good way to ensure limited
_collective_ success, which is perhaps my real objection to it.)
------
danvoell
I am not very political, but I really enjoyed reading The Fixer. It might help
you understand politics as it relates to technologies you know.
------
TA43
I don't have particular resources for this type of issue but a few pointers
which might help:
1 - Have a clear definition of your jobs remit in your own mind and be willing
to say no entirely or partially to requests which are impossible or poorly
defined. If someone hasn't given it thought themselves, why should you? This
should be phrased in a polite manner and if they don't respond followed up
after a few days to ensure blame cannot be placed on you.
2 - Identify key figures in your environment who are gatekeeprs/yield power in
the business. These are people who you want to befriend or destabalise/reduce
their power over you.
3 - Get some social skills outside of work, socialising is a skillset and can
be developed regardless of the person. It is easier for some and more
difficult for others but with practice you will improve, why not try a local
tech club to test the water and maybe have some fun?
4 - Go to work events once you have some social skills. If you're terrible at
even having a short, average conversation about the weekend for example, you
will just be known as the awkward work guy who comes to events but no one
likes..
5 - Understand what people want/their motiviations and their routine; If you
can understand what makes a person tick and how they function, even on a low
level you can use this information to either build rapport or to introduce
chaos. An example of this would be a persons morning routine, if you know
someone, lets say your boss arrives at 7:58 in the morning like clockwork,
puts his bags by his desk and then gets ready to grab a coffee, why not ask
him just before he puts his bags down and goes through the coffee thought
process? You can talk about how the weekend was, maybe something funny that
happened in the office etc and build rapport but also provide an outlet for
venting.
------
geggam
Dale Carnegie classes, his book on how to win friends and influence people.
It takes work
------
dlwdlw
Would recommend the book: The Courage to be Disliked.
------
mtea994
dont interact but learn how to say no in non offensive manner so you dont get
more tasks assigned to you than your actuall half
------
smartplaya2001
i hate office politics and never was good at it. Thats why i decided to work
for myself and start my own company.
------
spectrum101
This is a throw-away account. I have been diagnosed with autism spectrum
disorder and don't disclose that to the community or my employers. My advice
might be helpful as people with my condition have difficulty in the workplace.
A part of becoming a senior/lead developer is, in my experience, largely a
social endeavor. At some point the problems one faces are not tractable for a
single engineer to face alone. There is a finite limit on your time and many
unknown problems that can overwhelm even the most astute and exemplary
developer cannot be avoided. This is where you need to learn to delegate
responsibility for certain tasks to other team members and learn to lead
everyone in the right direction towards a common goal.
Your intuitions are correct: this is a skill you will have to learn and good
on you for asking for advice. I treat it like another engineering problem: a
distributed consensus protocol with high latency in the average case.
For reading material other people have recommended _How to Win Friends and
Influence People_. I have found the advice in this book to be practical for
dealing with interpersonal relationships in the workplace and learning how to
gain and use influence. Influence is a social currency that I have found to be
effective in negotiating disagreements and convincing people to adopt your
ideas.
For learning how to work in a team as a leader or manager I also recommend
_Extreme Ownership_ by Jocko Willinck [0]. It has provided me a framework to
use which has been helpful as my career has transitioned into leadership and
management. I have been fortunate enough that my team has been receptive to
these practices although getting there has been difficult.
One of the harder lessons to learn is how to deliver constructive criticism
and feedback in an engineering context. This is especially difficult for
someone like me when communicating with junior engineers on my team in code
review. It's one of my greater weaknesses but is sometimes an asset when I do
succeed at showing someone why type theory matters or how an appropriate use
of a data structure can improve performance. The problem I have the most
difficulty with is when a senior colleague on my team insists on a factually
incorrect assertion and forces their opinion by using misleading questions and
rhetoric. Unfortunately I have not come across any books or courses on
constructive criticism to share.
I do find the Recurse Center's Code of Conduct to be a good guide as well:
[https://www.recurse.com/code-of-conduct](https://www.recurse.com/code-of-
conduct)
[0] [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848190-extreme-
ownersh...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848190-extreme-ownership)
Dealing with people is challenging and exhausting however having a framework
for interactions and setting expectations ahead of time helps make these
challenges po
~~~
riotinto
> One of the harder lessons to learn is how to deliver constructive criticism
> and feedback... I have not come across any books or courses on constructive
> criticism to share.
I strongly recommend the book _Thanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of
Receiving Feedback Well_ by Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen. It lays out a
framework for both giving and receiving feedback.
I also recommend their earlier work _Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss
What Matters Most_. In it they present a psychologically astute picture of
what's really going on in conversations that make us feel uncomfortable, and
they do so using examples, language and priorities of the workplace. They give
very good advice for preparing for and navigating these conversations.
Here is a study guide they created for people who want to practice the book's
strategies:
[https://triadconsultinggroup.com/sites/default/files/Small%2...](https://triadconsultinggroup.com/sites/default/files/Small%20Group%20Study%20Guide.pdf)
I've actually been thinking about starting a meetup to find people to practice
this stuff with.
------
creep
I have your exact problem. I've been diagnosed as autism type I as well
(equivalent to asperger's).
There are lots of good tips here, and often people suggest reading books and
whatnot. Personally, it looks a bit overwhelming. I'll give you my advice just
to add to the torrent, and hopefully you'll read it. I hope it's a bit
gentler.
I'm not currently employed (still in university) and so this little problem of
mine has not affected me as much as it may have affected you, but I recognize
it will likely become a problem in the future, so I've been taking steps to
remedy the thing.
1) The first thing I did this semester was start a conversation with the guy
sitting next to me in class. He asked that I save his seat. When he came back,
I asked what program he was in and etc. and got his Facebook contact info.
Now, I've gone to great lengths to avoid him outside of class, but we talk in
the ten minutes before the lecture starts, and I have found it's a good
balance of pain vs gain. __Take home __: 5-10 min of meaningless conversation
is better than nothing.
2) Someone else came up to _me_ this semester in another class, asking about
the homework. In time, I found that sitting next to him and chatting idly was
actually relaxing. He is the kind of guy we all need in our life-- he simply
doesn't have judgments to doll out to you, and will happily converse about
whatever comes up, and happily sit silent if there's nothing to talk about. I
make sure to ask how he is on occasion if I don't see him around. __Take home
__: When you find someone that doesn 't make you want to jump out of your
skin, attempt to maintain your relationship.
3) __Maintaining relationships __: If you don 't like social obligations but
still want to maintain relationships to the degree that you're not treated as
a robot in the office, the best thing to do is ask questions of the other
person, the answers to which, of course, you are personally and genuinely
interested in. I ask people about their day to start, and then I ask questions
about their future: what do they want and why. This helps me understand their
motivations and puts me at ease because the knowledge allows me to predict
their behavior more accurately. Another thing is to just ask about people's
days whenever you see them. When people give you a genuine response to the
question, then you know you're on their good side. You can get on their good
side by acting interested in them and asking about their day!
4) Don't push yourself to take on too many relationships or to get close to a
lot of people. Keep it as simple as possible. Maintain as much distance as you
want while at the same time edging slowly out of your comfort zone. Say hi or
smile at people you pass in the office. If someone comes to your desk to give
you a task, ask them how their day is going, SMILE. It's these little tiny
actions that accumulate in the other person's mind to form a picture of you.
You don't need to do anything huge.
------
alok-g
First off, put it into your head that people skills are critical, for both
professional and personal lives. Make it a goal for yourself to develop them.
Below are a few things that I had found helpful:
1\. Book "Human Relationships" by Steve Duck [1]. The author of the book says
that his students were suffering from the same people/relationship issues as
everyone else in spite of the relevant education in psychology. So he reasoned
something is all wrong about the way social psychology is taught, and wrote
this book for helping people as oppose to teaching them. One impact on me was
learning that the percentage of people feeling shy about initiating a
conversation at some point in their lives was nearing half of them. In other
words, the person in the front of you could also be just waiting to talk to
you. I had read the first edition of the book which had very natural tone to
it. The fourth edition [1] seems much refined for rigor, which seems impacting
the basic premise of the book! So consider buying an older edition.
2\. The challenge for me wasn't just difficulty in talking, but a limitation
of interest and knowledge outside of the STEM fields. This then becomes a
vicious cycle since you would not talk to people and not even learn about
topics outside of work. Build some common interests outside of work, may be
just by reading some books in isolation. Read a lot of news, as a lot of
conversations build on it.
3\. Early on, I used to be the silent one in many conversations because of #2
above. I started participating in the conversations simply by asking questions
on what I did not understand. Asking too many questions annoys people, so need
to be balanced. Read about the discussed topics offline afterwards as needed.
Over the time, you get to understand those conversations, will start
participating, and also, those people would start accommodating you while
calibrating themselves for you with the skill level you have.
4\. The people around would accommodate you, as far as they do not see it as
your lacking interest in them. It's better to be seen as a person lacking
people skills rather than as one lacking interest in them. Try not to miss
lunches and dinners opportunities at work, even if you are not talking much
there.
5\. One-to-one conversations are easier. Break the ice with those. Soon you
would be comfortable in a group setting where you are comfortable with say
half of the people.
6\. Join social media and make connections with all those people. Being behind
a keyboard instead of face-to-face helps because you get more time to think
how to respond. Do genuinely participate, click Likes, etc. This will not only
develop connections with those people, but also slowly make you better for
live verbal conversations.
[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Human-Relationships-Steve-
Duck/dp/141...](https://www.amazon.com/Human-Relationships-Steve-
Duck/dp/1412929997/)
------
clubm8
Sun Tzu has several insights.
------
malmsteen
Make friend with people good at it.
Also work on being more at ease. "Limiting human interaction" is a bad route
to go down to.
And finally on a positive note: learn to love your anxiety. Listen to what it
says to you, knowing that its will ultimately help u do things better. People
with no anxiety dont do things well. Learn to use it and master it to be
better. Dont run from it
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Popular WordPress plugin tried to spam users' dashboards - ga-vu
https://github.com/Yoast/wordpress-seo/issues/13961
======
martin_a
This is the big problem I have with the WP ecosystem today.
Themes and plugins are a minefield with very little space between the mines.
Almost all themes in the theme repository are crippled versions of premium
themes today. The same goes for plugins where a huge amount of the plugins in
the official repository is just some kind of nagware trying to lure you into
buying a "premium version" which finally unlocks the single feature you
installed this plugin for. Then there are plugins which are outright broken
and will never get fixed anymore and some are just filled with some kind of
malware.
Oh, the aforementioned premium themes obviously come with a bunch of
dependencies, some bundled plugins, theme frameworks and whatnot else.
Instead of fixing this hole mess, Automattic thinks we need the 27th site
builder for WordPress and adds fuel to the burning piece of crap that the WP
ecosystem has become.
Sad to see from the outside, glad I left it behind me.
~~~
sendben2
What are you using now?
~~~
brylie
Wagtail (based on Python/Django). It has a great developer experience,
active/welcoming development community, and a WordPress inspired content
management UI.
[https://wagtail.io](https://wagtail.io)
------
lioeters
It was an intrusive ad banner, with a deceptive close button that redirected
users to a sales page. That should have never been allowed to happen, if they
value their reputation.
On the other hand, they quickly responded by removing the ad and apologizing
publicly.
[https://twitter.com/MariekeRakt/status/1200077958700044290?s...](https://twitter.com/MariekeRakt/status/1200077958700044290?s=20)
It was the right move.
~~~
martin_a
> On the other hand, they quickly responded by removing the ad and apologizing
> publicly.
I hate this. It's about testing the waters, seeing with what you can get away
and how loud the users will cry. Nothing about this was happened without a
reason.
Automattic should just outright ban plugins that are using dark UI patterns
like this.
------
brylie
I wish WordPress would help clean up its plugin/theme ecosystem and have
raised this point multiple times in their annual community surveys.
One major issue is that most of the plugins should be released as GPL since
WordPress is GPL licensed and the plugins extend its APIs. VCV Rack, a modular
audio environment, is a good example where all plugins are GPL unless getting
a commercial license from the core developer(s).
Another thing would be to encourage consistent documentation and support
channels, rather than every plugin using its own forum and documentation site.
Drupal is an excellent example of an ecosystem of GPL modules with the
consistent backing and documentation channels.
------
rchaud
Looks like they've removed it. Crazy to think that it was Yoast, one of the
most popular SEO plugins for WP. They actually have a really good website for
teaching SEO fundamentals as well, all free.
The most egregious part of this was linking the "close" button to a sales page
for the premium plugin. That is the kind of low-down dark pattern you only see
on pirated sports stream websites.
~~~
martin_a
Yoast has always been one of the most nagging distributors/creators. They have
always been obtrusive to the max, but this really tops it.
------
type0
> Also, the fact that once you get closer to the "x" to close the banner
> you're redirected to your sales page it's quite evil.
Brilliant Yoast, so clever, just brilliant! /s
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Password Strength - erickhill
http://xkcd.com/936/
======
sahyee
I've sent this comic to a few friends of mine in the IT industry and we always
laugh about it. Really the goal is to try to stay a little bit ahead of
current Rainbow Tables and use safe browsing practices. Also hope that the
websites you use actually have semi-decent security and sufficient password
complexity requirements as well....there are still too many sites (I'm looking
at you banking industry) that have a maximum password complexity that makes me
want to cry because of how dated it is.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Think about Equity - janvdberg
http://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/think-about-equity
======
ajeet_dhaliwal
Simple and probably obvious to many but I was quite old until I learned this.
Depending on who your parents are, many kids have no clue this is even
possible, getting a job and a salary is the only thing they know (and I knew
growing up) so it is important to tell your kids about this sort of thing,
I've told my oldest already and he's 3.
------
bsiemon
If you grew up true middle income or poor in the US it is extremely hard to
value equity as an adult. Then, if you manage join a company that offers
equity, it can be a mental struggle to buy your options even though you have
plenty of cash on hand.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
React Starter Kit: A free, interactive video course for React beginners - GarethX
https://glitch.com/react-starter-kit
======
GarethX
This is a collection of 5 videos and some starter projects we put together to
help people to learn React. I hope you find it useful.
Not to be confused with Kriasoft's handy
[https://reactstarter.com](https://reactstarter.com) from a couple of years
back.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The $15 Pine 64, a Raspberry Pi 3 competitor, finally ships - luxpir
http://www.itworld.com/article/3044165/the-15-pine-64-a-raspberry-pi-3-competitor-finally-ships.html
======
luxpir
The Kickstarter page with specs:
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pine64/pine-a64-first-1...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pine64/pine-a64-first-15-64-bit-
single-board-super-comput/description)
The gigabit networking sounds good, as does the GPU. Although it has no
onboard wifi/BT, as the Pi 3 does.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Give all my data to Google and the CDC - laurex
https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/google-cdc-data-privacy-covid19.html
======
cityzen
Google is a publicly traded multinational advertising company. I do not and
never will trust them to do the right thing with my data. That ship sailed
years ago.
If we have to trust private data mining companies in a pandemic it shows just
how absolutely stupid all of this is.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Unnatural selection: Robots start to evolve - waleedka
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126946.600-unnatural-selection-robots-start-to-evolve.html?full=true
======
RiderOfGiraffes
Already posted: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=467715>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Depression – Being an Expat in the First World [Need Advice] - WannaLive
http://wanna.live/are-we-born-to-work-and-die-a-soul-crushed-employee-looks-for-a-way-out/
======
grzm
Previously posted 8 days ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061287](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061287)
Also, the title of the linked article is "Are We Born To Work And Die? A Soul-
Crushed Employee Looks For A Way Out"
------
walshemj
Mate if you think being a salaried employee sucks you might to want to try
working as a blue collar worker in a slaughterhouse.
Don't take this the wrong way but your coming across as super entitled.
~~~
WannaLive
As written in the text, once you "get" a "white-collar" job, you'll see that
there is not much difference between the two.
We're in the same hell.
~~~
walshemj
The OP Said "Salaried" and there are many differences social status etc self
defined hours of work.
And if you think working in an office is just the same as working in a
slaughter house or in an amazon warehouse you probably have never worked at
manual job.
~~~
WannaLive
So, what would you recommend to improve the situation?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Chernobyl Disaster - tosh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
======
tosh
April 26 1986
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Most Effective Software Development Team - beekums
http://blog.professorbeekums.com/2017/01/the-most-effective-software-development.html
======
pjbster
_What also helped was the better communication that came with this team
structure. Artists and developers weren’t seated across the hall or on
different floors. The team sat together which meant that developers were
seated right next to artists._
Interesting. Seems to advocate for shared office space and interrupting co-
workers (later in the same paragraph).
The author clearly feels that there was a synergy there and doesn't presume to
claim any wisdom as to why this was the case.
So we're left to tease out our own conclusions: keep team sizes small, cross-
functional and in shared office space.
------
ujttpu
I was reading the article in anticipation of how such teams could scale,
unfortunately the article admitted they don't. We've tried a cross
disciplinary team of 30+. The overhead of keeping everyone in sync removed
most of the benefits. Another rather surprising problem was that by putting
everyone in one room we had noise problems. Marketers and designers were far
more extroverted, creating an overly loud environment for developers who
wanted silence to code.
------
popdoit
Horrible description of UX designers as "...often judged solely on how the
product looks". You're working with visual designers, not UX designers.
~~~
arjie
"are often" not "should be".
~~~
thasaleni
"... often judged SOLELY..." This makes it sound like they can't be judged on
anything else, still a very bad way to describe what UX designers do
~~~
arjie
It's not an important point because it doesn't affect the crux of his post but
I feel the need to argue because you've clearly grossly misunderstood the
meaning of a sentence that's easily understood by most.
He's not saying they can't be or shouldn't be judged on anything else. He's
saying that, in practice, the person they're reporting to judges their work
solely based on how it looks.
It doesn't matter whether or not this is true anyway. It's just a made up
example to illustrate the idea.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Old Car Brochures - smacktoward
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/
======
smacktoward
I feel like the 1974 Lincoln/Mercury brochure
([http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Lincoln/1974_Lincol...](http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Lincoln/1974_Lincoln/1974_Lincoln-
Mercury_Brochure/dirindex.html)) may represent peak '70s salesmanship...
_> Last year 44 out of 50 airline pilots rated a 1973 Marquis Brougham more
comfortable to drive than a $31,000 European town car._
_> We've demonstrated the excellent ride of a 1973 Monterey Custom in a
dramatic test: a vial of nitric acid was safely suspended over a $50,000
natural Russian sable coat on loan from Maximilian of New York, while
traveling over rough and irregular road surfaces._
_> Sexy European cars with great style and superb performance have had, all
too often, prices that run into five figures. Until Capri that is._
... not to mention Detroit's bizarre '70s fascination with what to the modern
eye are unbelievably tacky materials:
_> The [Lincoln Continental] Mark IV instrument panel is simulated cashmere
walnut woodgrain matina and burl walnut woodgrain applique._
_> For 1974, the Mark IV has new, sophisticated insulation against outside
sound, thick 25-ounce shag cut-pile carpeting enhancing the luxurious
interior, further hushing the ride._
_> Overhead rich vinyl sheathes sun visors and headlining. Super-soft,
expanded vinyl covers the European-influenced bucket seats and even door
panels. There are rich tones of woodgrain vinyl along the dash. Touches of
European luxury everywhere._
A word I was unable to find anywhere in the brochure: "mileage."
A word I only came across on the last page of the brochure, down with the fine
print: "safety."
~~~
throwaway2048
Fake wood grain is one of the enduring mysteries, not only is it gross, tacky
and objectively uglier than real wood, its not even any cheaper!
~~~
mc32
I think the deal with a lot of those materials is that at the time they were
seen as “new” and “modern” and “synthetic”.
Kind of like when aluminum became a du jour metal and things traditionally
made from other metals suddenly had to be made with aluminum —nowadays we
think of aluminum as cheap and disposable (depending on application), but for
s time it was the “Titanium” of its day, and the same for those other
materials.
~~~
mikestew
I was a kid in the 70s, but even at that tender age I thought the synthetic
substitutes looked like shit. They didn’t look “new and modern”, they looked
cheap and like someone was trying to make do with the economical alternative.
So don’t be fooled by the brochures. We weren’t.
~~~
mc32
They didn’t have to appeal to everyone. I don’t think it’s much different from
the novelty of “clear acrylic” telephones.
What I really don’t get is how anyone would want this station wagons with the
fake wood paneling and obtrusive fake trim on things like the Chevy
fleetmaster. But I think it’s just one of those incomprehensible fads.
------
ian0
I cant help but thinking from these brochures that people had more picnics in
the 50s/60s than we do now. Perhaps it was a trend for awhile. Or maybe
related to the fact people couldn't easily live together before marriage :P
~~~
duxup
Maybe it is like how you might think there are a lot of Americans who are
frequently hauling things and going off road in their pick up trucks ... but
they probably aren't ;)
Not unreal, but perhaps the volume of depiction and such was more aspirational
than reality.
~~~
Waterluvian
I think you're on to something.
The picnic scene is a lot like the picket fence suburb scene. Iconic atomic
family American dream.
~~~
taborj
I just realized that I own a pickup, have a white picket fence around my
suburban home, and enjoy picnics.
To be fair, though, my pickup is a 1946 Dodge.
------
inferiorhuman
While looking for some proprietary hose fittings I came across back issues of
an automobile trade mag. Here's one from 1964. What a time to be alive.
[http://www.ai-
online.com/Adv/catalog/downloadCatalog.php?id=...](http://www.ai-
online.com/Adv/catalog/downloadCatalog.php?id=1093)
------
anonu
>
> [http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1924_Ford/1924...](http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1924_Ford/1924%20Ford%20Freedom%20Mailer/image2.html)
Funny how this Ford was marketed only as a "summer and fall" car... Forget
about the winter...
Also - interesting to note that I see no car model years between 1941 and
1945. WWII I suppose...
~~~
smacktoward
Yes, all civilian car production in the U.S. was suspended for the duration of
the war so the auto plants could be used to produce military trucks, tanks and
aircraft.
~~~
Aloha
I'm astounded sometimes how little people know about history anymore.
~~~
ashtonbaker
Well, nobody can know everything.
------
maqdoom
good to see But some links are misdirecting
[http://oldcarbrochures.org/index.php/index.php/Canada](http://oldcarbrochures.org/index.php/index.php/Canada)
\--> [http://oldcarbrochures.org/Canada/](http://oldcarbrochures.org/Canada/)
and
[http://oldcarbrochures.org/index.php/Australia-2](http://oldcarbrochures.org/index.php/Australia-2)
\-->
[http://oldcarbrochures.org/Australia/](http://oldcarbrochures.org/Australia/)
------
wimagguc
An 1924 Ford cost $265 (In this Freedom Mailer:
[http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1924_Ford/1924...](http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1924_Ford/1924%20Ford%20Freedom%20Mailer/image2.html)),
which in today's money is only $3,968 (based on
[https://www.usinflationcalculator.com](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com)).
Is that true? Why didn't _everybody_ have a car?
~~~
read_if_gay_
Employee wages were lower as well I suppose.
~~~
wimagguc
Wouldn't that be incorporated in the inflation though?
------
obituary_latte
Man the 87 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z[0] is still such a beautiful vehicle. So
much fun having a 5.7 liter 8 cylinder as an underachieving 16 year old newly
minted driver!
[0][http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1987_Chev...](http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1987_Chevrolet/1987_Chevrolet_Camaro_Brochure/1987%20Chevrolet%20Camaro-03.html)
------
kreetx
These are always really interesting! I wish they had a better UI though since
often the collectors appear not to be web devs (and we all are - here on hn
:p).
~~~
dewey
Honestly, most of the time these simple websites are way nicer to use than
what "web devs" put out these days.
~~~
kreetx
I totally agree with you. For this site I would just wish it had the images to
either full with or height mode and a next/previous button at exactly the same
position to flip through the brochures. But I hear you on the js insanity
front -- been there, suffered that. :p
------
jedberg
This is amazing. I found the brochure for both my parents' first cars. My dad
had his first car until I was 13, so I most definitely remember riding around
in it.
------
hwj
You might also like visiting the ZeitHaus in Wolfsburg, Germany. It's a museum
packed with old cars.
------
RickJWagner
Love it! I had to go lookup some of my old rides.
------
dhbanes
I clicked a few links and got 404 every time.
~~~
King-Aaron
I didn't have this experience, i.e.
[http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Australia%20and%20New%...](http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Australia%20and%20New%20Zealand/Holden/1970%20Holden%20Torano%20GTR-X%20Concept/image1.html)
resolves for me
~~~
js2
If you’re on an iPhone the site redirects to
[http://oldcarbrochures1.bmobilized.com/](http://oldcarbrochures1.bmobilized.com/)
which doesn’t resolve.
~~~
bdcravens
Bypass with “Request Desktop Site” in Safari
~~~
js2
The links on the site redirect before there's a chance to do that.
~~~
bdcravens
Do it on the home page. Worked for me.
------
iamspoilt
This is gold!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google shows parts of Arunachal Pradesh (India) in Chinese Language - aj
http://www.pluggd.in/google-india-controversy-arunachal-pradesh-in-chinese-language-297/
======
davidw
Maps are tricky. Currently, Google Maps seems to be showing town names in
Sudtirol (the German-speaking bit of Italy that was part of Austria until
after the 1st world war) exclusively in Italian, and the street names in both
languages. Everything there is officially bilingual, and pretty much
everything has to be in both languages.
Wait... even weirder, I switched to the terrain view, and it added the German
town names (map view doesn't have them). Beautiful area, in any case:
[http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=46.919552,11.492043&#...</a>
------
dirtyaura
Google Maps' name data is a strange beast. A while ago Google Maps showed
Spanish names for many Finnish cities for several months.
If I've understood correctly, names do not actually come from Google, but from
map data providers, so the culprit in this is case is a map data provider.
------
three14
It appears from Wikipedia that the border is disputed. If so, it looks like
the Indian position is that Google is taking sides, but Google might just have
been attempting to stay neutral.
~~~
plinkplonk
"It appears from Wikipedia that the border is disputed."
It is. Map makers are in a hard place. There are parts of Kashmir that are in
Pakistan but Indian maps show them as part of India. Which never made sense to
me. The indian government goes after anyone whose maps show it differently.
(fwiw I am Indian)
------
nasrkhan
It is an interesting development in the Web 2.0 era. Now the tech companies
are the source for brewing up social and political debates and controversies:
([http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Google-
shows-p...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Google-shows-parts-
of-Arunachal-in-Chinese/articleshow/4869777.cms))
Recently Google Earth stepped up the coverage of darfur genocide.
[http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/06/google-steps-up-its-
dar...](http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/06/google-steps-up-its-darfur-
genocide-coverage-in-google-earth/)
Now with these two diagonally opposite cases, it is to be seen how an
increasingly popular and influential tech giant treads the fine line between
fact and diplomacy, setting examples for others in the process.
------
sketerpot
In related news, YouTube thinks that I speak Mandarin. With the traditional
character set. I've tried to get this changed, but to no avail. I uploaded a
video today, and I got an automatic email with this subject:
恭喜您上傳了第一部 YouTube 影片！
Babelfish tells me that it means "Congratulated you to upload the first
YouTube movie!" which I suppose is straightforward enough, but I would have
preferred to hear it in a language that doesn't baffle me quite as much.
------
bmunro
One of the comments in the article notes that:
The global version of Google Maps shows the border as a dashed line, according
to actual territorial possession.
The Chinese version, Google Ditu, shows the border as an unbroken line
according to the Chinese claim. Taiwan is also shown as part of mainland
China.
------
est
Arunachal Pradesh? I thought it's called 藏南 (CHINA)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Netflix Streamed 19,500,000 Terabytes Of Video In The 1st Quarter of 2014 - SuperKlaus
http://www.cordcuttersnews.com/netflix-streamed-19500000-terabytes-of-video-in-the-1st-quarter-of-2014/
======
tachion
And a lot of that, suprisingly, using FreeBSD instead of Linux or Windows, as
can be seen on recent presentation from MeetBSD California:
[http://www.slideshare.net/iXsystems/scott-long-netflix-
updat...](http://www.slideshare.net/iXsystems/scott-long-netflix-update)
~~~
psgbg
There will be a video? I would love to see that.
------
JoeAltmaier
I wonder what the capacity of the internet WAS in the 1st quarter? We hear
about what fraction of traffic is this-and-that; but where are we regarding
total available bandwidth?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
App Engine vs Heroku - fleclerc
Hi,<p>I am currently considering two options as a back-end to a CRUD type mobile application: App Engine and Heroku. While it is fairly easy to calculate the costs of the Heroku option, I do not have experience with App Engine so I don't really know what to expect if I get a decent number of hits per day. App Engine looks like the easiest option technically but is this worth having your data and app logic tied to Google's platform?<p>Have you used App Engine / Heroku lately? Any thoughts?<p>Thanks!
======
bcarlson
I've switched from app engine to heroku. Even if you can get past the vendor
lock in, carefully review the limitations: file-size, collection size, etc.
They may have good reasons for these, but I spent more time working/thinking
around these than I expected.
I AppEngine is a great platform for getting an app off the ground, and for a
POC... but beyond that I wouldn't recommend it.
-Ben
~~~
fleclerc
Hi Ben,
I know I would get to beta 1 or a prototype faster on app engine but I did not
know the limitations you mention would cause such headaches. I thought we had
more room.
What I like of app engine is the search service but I think it could become
costly - there is no price right now but the api call limits seem rather low.
And I see that you can do full text search in Postgres at no additional cost
than the monthly database plan.
------
rbanffy
The free tier of App Engine (I'm only familiar with the Python platform) is
somewhat accommodating. If it becomes too expensive, you may choose to move
your app to your own machines running Typhoonae or Appscale. Neither of those
is easy to install.
Heroku runs more portable things you can easily deploy on your own boxes.
~~~
fleclerc
Hi,
I guess I have to decide whether I am ready to pay a monthly fee on Heroku
during bootstrap time as opposed to basically nothing on app engine. You said
you were familiar with app engine, globally are you satisfied with the
platform? I will use Python, whether on app engine or Heroku.
------
haegwankim
After trying the both PaaS, I recommend Heroku for better deploy experience
and lots of add-ons you can use later if necessary.
------
outside1234
App Engine is a disaster - go with Heroku and Rails or with AWS/Azure/Linode
with Rails on IAAS. :)
~~~
kaipakartik
Why may I ask is appengine a disaster
------
albumedia
App engine is great, especially for small teams. I personally like webapp2 and
click to deploy.
It's important to note the various limitations(file size,writes to file
system,etc).
------
jamesjguthrie
I might try Heroku later but for now I'm using App Engine - mainly with
JSONengine
------
novaleaf
heroku seems interesting, but if you are a "starter" (like me) i have to say
GAE's "one way of doing things" is attractive.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Performance of ES6 features relative to ES5 - shawndumas
https://kpdecker.github.io/six-speed/?utm_source=ESnextNews.com&utm_medium=Weekly%20Newsletter&utm_campaign=Week%2010
======
stymaar
The results given by this benchmark are bothering me because they do not fit
with what I've seen in production. For example, the `for-of-array` is
transpiled by babel to something that has 2 nested try/catch blocks, and
unfortunately, V8 has a nasty deoptimisation when dealing with these, even if
no exception is ever thrown.
This deopt led to a several orders of magnitude slowdown compare to a simple
`for` loop in Google Chrome, forcing use to abandon the `for of` construction.
I suspect that the benchmark shown on this page does not expose this kind of
behavior because it doesn't iterate enough for the JIT to kick in. If it's the
case, it means that these values reflects only the behavior of the cold,
interpreted code, and not the hot one. (which is quite sad for a performance
benchmark, because the performance matter only for the former …)
~~~
spankalee
Chrome doesn't have an interpreter, it has baseline and optimizing compiler.
Also, I think try/catch preventing optimization was fixed.
Still your point could stand, or additionally there could be many
optimizations that interfere with such simple micro benchmarks, turning all or
parts of them into no-ops. If this is happening in ES5 and not ES6, the
results could be drastic. I suspect this is what's happening with some of the
larger differences in native ES6.
~~~
rgrove
> Also, I think try/catch preventing optimization was fixed.
Do you have a source for this? Try/catch deopts still bubble up in my Chrome
profiling, so it seems like they're still a problem.
~~~
goldbrick
Yes, my understanding is the problem is essentially undefined behavior as
exceptions can be caught at any point in the call stack which makes it
basically impossible to optimize.
~~~
bzbarsky
It's not impossible at all. try/catch in the non-throwing case is fast in both
Firefox (SpiderMonkey) and IE (Chakra); I'm not sure what the state of things
is in Safari (JavaScriptCore). In the throwing case you obviously have to do
some work, but as long as that case is rare it's not a problem. Contrast with
the V8 situation (which they are fixing), where simply having a try/catch in
your function at all will deoptimize the function, even if an exception is
never actually thrown.
Oh, and one optimization strategy for try catch is even pretty simple to
describe in general terms: you need a cheap way to check whether an exception
is thrown, and then after every operation that can throw (e.g. a call into the
vm to a function that is allowed to throw) you check whether it did. If not,
you just move along. If it did, you jump to an out of line path that does
cleanup and callstack unwinding. The devil, as usual, is in the details.
------
white-flame
The thing about JIT languages is that there's no such thing as overall speed
of a particular operation; you can only sample current speed on current
implementations.
New features pursue correctness, then as their place in the JITs mature
interesting new approaches will change their speed characteristics later.
Things like contrasting the speed of various ways of iterating an array are
all semantically equivalent, and as the JIT learns the various semantics they
should all theoretically approach similar speeds, even if the newer ones are
slower now.
~~~
paulddraper
> The thing about JIT languages is that there's no such thing as overall speed
> of a particular operation; you can only sample current speed on current
> implementations.
How in the world is that specific to JIT? Have you never heard of a
Sufficiently Smart Compiler?
~~~
acdha
The main difference is that you the developer can test with a known compiler
and know what the performance characteristics are before you release your
code: when Microsoft releases VisualStudio 2018, your existing application
doesn't change until you rebuild it. In contrast, for code running in a web
browser or something like the JVM, your existing code may run faster or slower
without you even knowing about the new version.
~~~
nostrademons
I'm not sure this is true anymore even in this case - with multicore
processors, cache dependency, and pervasive virtualization, the speed of your
program can be significantly affected by what else is running on the box.
Remember that the x86 itself has a JIT on the chip, converting x86 machine
code to whatever microcode the processor uses. When I was at Google, they
provided special dedicated machines for benchmarking, with custom run-times
that disabled a lot of the containerization/virtualization features, and there
was _still_ a lot of noise in benchmark times.
~~~
acdha
That's certainly true and I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought
this was a binary situation. It's just that code which runs in a JITed
environment, particularly one like the browser JavaScript runtimes which
aren't even versioned, has an even wider exposure to skew. Everything running
on a multiprocess/user operating system is exposed to resource contention but
e.g. your JavaScript code also has to worry about things like Chrome disabling
optimizations anywhere you use try/catch.
------
yoklov
More than just these, even innocuous features such as `let` and `const` over
`var` cause a substantial performance decrease in V8 (but not SpiderMonkey).
I do a lot of one-off demos, that I mostly write in ES6 these days. I don't
have a demonstration of pure `let` vs `var`, but if you change Babel to
JavaScript in this one (and click run), you'll see a fairly substantial
performance decrease in Chrome for this demo (Firefox stays the same though):
[https://jsfiddle.net/oa1sckzu/](https://jsfiddle.net/oa1sckzu/) . I have
others, and the results are largely the same for them, but I'll spare you.
~~~
rraval
There is a recent v8-users mailing list thread on this exact topic. Here's one
possible explanation on perf differences between `let` and `var`:
[https://groups.google.com/d/msg/v8-users/hsUrt4I2D98/ELsfO1e...](https://groups.google.com/d/msg/v8-users/hsUrt4I2D98/ELsfO1e6AQAJ)
------
heydenberk
These measures are JS performance are important for VM implementors, for
people writing node.js applications to be used at large scale and people doing
computationally-complex work in the browser (eg creating physics engines).
It's worth noting that for most of us, most of the time, this kind of JS
performance is less important than user-perceptible optimizations, like
batching DOM reads and writes and decreasing asset size
------
_greim_
I assumed the "es6" row header refers to the engine's native implementation of
the feature. In which case it should grey out "destructuring" under Node
4.2.6. But they don't, it's listed as "10x slower". What am I missing?
------
david-given
I would like to see Babel ES6-to-ES5 converted performance here too, because
that's how most real-world ES6 code is going to be run --- there are too many
non-ES6-compatible browsers out there.
~~~
masklinn
That's exactly the information the "babel" rows provide? Each row is a given
"ES6 implementation" and how it performs compared to the baseline "ES5 native"
implementation of a feature.
So the first row of each section is the babel-compiled (to ES5) ES6, the
second is traceur-compiled, third is typescript-compiled and last is native
ES6 runtime. If you look at the test files, most of them only have an es5 and
an es6 versions.
~~~
david-given
Oh, FFS. I managed to spend some time looking at the table without actually
seeing what the entire point of it was.
Tea, you have failed me!
Sorry about that.
------
atonse
It's kind of awesome how good TypeScript looks in all this. Testament to the
compiler talent MS has on staff.
------
snorrah
This makes me think of Python 2 vs 3 benchmarks for some reason, although I'm
sure I'm not remembering very well.
I assume there's plenty of scope for ES6 to improve and (hopefully?) surpass
ES5 in performance in many, if not all, areas?
What would be causing the large slowdowns in ES6 here? Is this a case of
having features that make JS nicer to code in, but giving up some performance?
Or is this more down to immature compilers not yet optimising ES6 as
substantially?
------
dagurp
Why is "identical" in green and "faster" in a slightly darker green? Is es6 a
library or is it the browser's implementation of ES6?
~~~
mattashii
ES6 is the native implementation in the browser or JS-engine you are using,
indeed.
Green is probably chosen because the same performance is nice to have with
this (subjectively) better syntax. The darker shade is probably chosen because
more performance is nice, as it pushes you to the newer (subjectively better)
syntax.
------
jameslk
For-of is slow (in Babel) because from my understanding it gets transpiled to
use Regenerator. That was a bit of a nasty discovery for me.
~~~
eltaco
You can use loose mode or the loose option in that case.
------
alxlu
Why is arrow-declare is so much slower on Firefox (16x to 325x slower)
compared to everything else (identical to 2.4x slower)?
------
balupton
There is also [https://github.com/bevry/esnext-
benchmarks](https://github.com/bevry/esnext-benchmarks)
------
cromwellian
I'd like to see Closure Compiler thrown into the mix. It not only translates
ES6 to ES5, but applies optimizations.
------
venning
Note, when it says "1.6x faster" what is really means is "1.6 as fast" or "60%
faster", or really "operates at 1.6x the speed of the baseline", not "1.6x
increase in speed".
For example, when looking at the data for Chrome 48's "arrow" tests [1], the
_baseline_ number is 57,858,016 and the _traceur_ number is 91,556,806, which
is 158.2% of the _baseline_ , but is reported as "1.6x faster".
I know this seems like semantics, but "1.0x faster" sounds a lot like "twice
as fast". (In this case, "1.0x faster" is reported as "identical" [2]).
[1] [https://github.com/kpdecker/six-
speed/blob/master/data.json#...](https://github.com/kpdecker/six-
speed/blob/master/data.json#L1933)
[2] [https://github.com/kpdecker/six-
speed/blob/master/tasks%2Fre...](https://github.com/kpdecker/six-
speed/blob/master/tasks%2Freport.js#L171)
~~~
aschampion
This is the convention when talking about speedup in software. 1x speedup
means identical time.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedup)
~~~
venning
If the phrase was "1.6x speedup" then I would agree and not have commented.
But the phrase is "1.6x faster", which is a bit ambiguous.
That there is disagreement among the commentariat both ways is indicative of
ambiguity. (Though, I am assuming no trolling here.)
While not exactly analogous, try replacing it with a percentage and re-
evaluate: What does "60% faster" mean and what does "160% faster" mean?
------
vegabook
The "commentariat" charge is legitimate, which is why there is a field known
as "mathematics" which is unambiguous. 1.6x by anybody's non-commentariat
definition is 60% faster, as anybody who has ever even scratched the surface
of any mathematical, engineering, scientific, statistical or indeed, computer
science discipline knows (though this is perhaps unknown to the Creative Suite
crowd). This comment is completely bogus, with apologies if you don't
understand. But you really should know what you don't know before posting such
garbage.
~~~
dang
Please don't post uncivil comments to Hacker News.
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11204967](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11204967)
and marked it off-topic.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Snowden effect: Data collected about brazilians should be stored locally - oscargrouch
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/21/brazil_data_protection/
======
ramon
It makes sense with the subsea cables going to EU, Asia and Africa project,
bypassing the US and hosting local information to protect itself from NSA.
It's also a way to make local laws for local information which local companies
having to respect the local laws. Pretty sure hosting / datacenter business
will grow now in Brazil.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
JSON is not Javascript Object - fizerkhan
http://www.fizerkhan.com/blog/posts/JSON-is-not-Javascript-Object.html
======
thousande
there are also some unicode character differences, see:
[http://timelessrepo.com/json-isnt-a-javascript-
subset](http://timelessrepo.com/json-isnt-a-javascript-subset)
~~~
fizerkhan
I did not know that. Thanks for useful info.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is Bootstrap making the Internet fat? - alexgrande
======
dindresto
"Fat" in which way? Traffic?
~~~
alexgrande
Ha it certainly is popular and helps people get started. But it is a very
large library.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
In the blink of an eye - tomkwok
http://mosaicscience.com/story/severe-eye-pain
======
rubidium
If I followed this right:
1) Some external/biological problem (dry eyes) triggers the nerves to send
pain signals to the brain.
2) Due to long-term external/biological problem the nerves become conditioned
to send pain signals
3) Even when the external/biological problem is solved, the nerves can stay
"latched" in a position of sending pain signals. There is currently no cure
for this problem.
That's pretty scary stuff.
------
xlm1717
I get that some eye scientists can find this problem uninteresting and prefer
not to work on it. What I don't get is the need to bury the research when some
scientists are interested in getting to the bottom of this eye pain. If this
research does lead to new therapies which can reduce or eliminate the eye pain
reported by some patients, what will be the excuse of the doctors who tried to
bury the research?
As researcher Donald Korb is quoted as saying in the article, "“When I think
back about how ignorant I was seven years ago, I’m appalled."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Forecasting for Covid-19 has failed - elcritch
https://forecasters.org/blog/2020/06/14/forecasting-for-covid-19-has-failed/
======
elcritch
The article's breakdown of cause effect and failure modes in modeling is
applicable to other areas as well. IMHO, it's also a great discussion of
failures in scientific research in general.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Virgin America Stores Your Password in Plaintext - jamiequint
http://i.imgur.com/AjF3P.png
Virgin America emailed me this when sending me credit. I've edited the personal details out, but as you can see the password is clearly shown in plaintext. Unacceptable.
======
getsat
Did you receive that email after registering? The controller action processing
your request would have access to the POSTed plaintext password and could pass
it right into the email template before it's sent (or queued to be sent). This
doesn't mean they're storing it in plaintext.
If you request a password reset and they send back your plaintext password,
then they likely are.
Notifier.new_signup(:email => params[:email], :password => params[:password]).deliver
~~~
jamiequint
I got it over a year later, just cancelled a flight and got an email reminding
me of the credit they set me up with. My login and password were in that
email, so the above scenario does not seem like what is going on.
~~~
getsat
Huh, in that case, you're probably right. Scary/disconcerting.
------
pbreit
Just to be precise, that doesn't necessarily mean it's stored in plan text
since it could be 2 way encrypted (which I would argue is at least marginally
safer than plain text). Or if it's a registration, it could be added to the
email prior to storing.
Also, a double whammy in exposing a user specified secret in email. That makes
hacking into email considerably more valuable.
~~~
jamiequint
True, but 2-way encryption is only slightly less unacceptable.
~~~
pbreit
Which I sort of mentioned.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Any Non-trivial UWP apps out there? - photawe
A lot of times I feel like I'm the only UWP developer out there. Clearly, there are a lot of UWP developers out there, but to create complicated apps using UWP, and dealing with all the hurdles, and not actually giving up, that seems to be pretty much no one.<p>I really really hope I'm wrong, but there are times I feel I just wanna scream.<p>(Fyi, my app is just a tad higher than 100K LOC)<p>Why am I saying this?<p>Microsoft is marketing this stuff as "the next big thing", but it feels pretty much as just empty words. In other words, they don't seem to actually believe what they're saying. Except for the "Windows 10 Settings" and the "Feedback Hub", which in terms of UI are beyond trivial, I don't really see any UWP app they developed that could could as "decently complex".<p>So, it's just marketing, but nothing to back it up. I've looked at the examples and all that stuff, they all look decent, but in terms of complexity, they're all simple simple simple.<p>The Microsoft Store is worse than a bad joke. Sure, there are some apps there, but most of them are just a few controls cobbled together, a few pages, a few animations and that's it. I'm asking about hard-core, complex UI, and see that UWP is a winner.<p>About the docs: in practice, no matter what the docs say, you just need to test it and see if it works. And even if it does, you're not really sure it'll work on the customer's computer.<p>I've encountered so many issues in the last almost-one-year that I don't know how a sane person could truly develop a non-trivial UWP app. Just as I say "async" - if you're porting a WPF app to UWP, because of async, it's likely better to simply rewrite it from scratch.<p>So, anyone doing non-trivial UWP? How many LOC? How many users? Successful? I'm really really curious.
======
photawe
Extra note (did not fit in the original submission)
To me, UWP is definitely a good thing, but it's soooo unpolished, the docs are
so trivial (lots of documentation that simply mimics the API itself),
everything looks like it's just been made to look good for some presentation,
but beyond that, you're on your own. Not to mention they made that great
"sandbox" without asking any one, no one really likes it, everything is 10x
harder than without the sandbox, giving feedback to MS is close to impossible,
and in the incredibly lucky case they MIGHT listen, it will probably be months
before they develop a solution (which would work only from that Windows
version onwards).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The demise of eventual consistency - mycodebreaks
http://gigaom.com/2013/11/02/next-gen-nosql-the-demise-of-eventual-consistency
======
haberman
> A system that keeps some, but not all, of its nodes able to read and write
> during a partition is not available in the CAP sense but is still available
> in the sense that clients can talk to the nodes that are still connected.
Sure, as long as the clients can reach the nodes that are "still connected."
But clients can get partitioned from server nodes too. For example if there
was a complete fiber cut across the Atlantic, both clients and servers in the
US would be partitioned from clients and servers in Europe. Whichever side has
the majority of replicas (say the US) gets to keep operating. You can try to
say that the service is still "available", but that doesn't help the clients
in Europe.
If the client is partitioned from the majority of replicas, it's game over. At
that point, the system has to give up either consistency or availability _from
the perspective of that client_.
And of course, if the majority of replicas suddenly goes down completely
because of power failure or something like that, then the system truly is
unavailable no matter where you put a client. There is no way for the
surviving nodes to know that the dead nodes aren't actually alive and still
accepting writes.
> New distributed, consistent systems like Google Spanner concretely
> demonstrate the falsity of a trade-off between strong consistency and high
> availability.
I am pretty sure that even Spanner becomes unavailable if a majority of
replicas go down (or the client is partitioned from them).
~~~
jasode
>If the client is partitioned from the majority of replicas, it's game over.
At that point, the system has to give up either consistency or availability
from the perspective of that client.
It sounds like the article's author simply shifted the problem from "
_eventually consistent_ " to " _eventually 100% available to 100% of the
clients_ " \-- e.g. when fiber optical cable is repaired.
That can be a perfectly fine tradeoff but it would be clearer if the author
spelled that out explicitly.
I believe his more notable point is that the current crop of immature
databases push the logical reasoning about "eventually consistent" too far up
into application layer which in turn causes unnecessary pain for developers. I
think focusing on this one concept would be a better blog post because it
addresses many real-world requirements of "eventual consistency".
~~~
haberman
Even under that analysis, a consistent system is completely unavailable (0% of
clients can get service) when a majority of replicas suddenly go down
completely.
The point about eventual consistency pushing inconsistency too high in the
stack makes sense to me though. The spanner paper makes a similar argument.
~~~
mtdewcmu
I thought that the original justification for eventual consistency was that,
for some kinds of data, availability is much more important than consistency.
It could be that, in reality, that kind of data doesn't exist, because any
data worth keeping is worth the trouble of keeping consistent. Or, it could be
that the use case exists, but it's uncommon and seldom worth maintaining a
separate database system if you are not Facebook. The article didn't make
those arguments, though. It argues that weak guarantees by the database make
client code harder to write, which ought to be kind of obvious, if consistency
is what you need.
~~~
rdtsc
> It could be that, in reality, that kind of data doesn't exist, because any
> data worth keeping is worth the trouble of keeping consistent
Not necessarily. What is important is not "dropping" the data on the floor in
an unpredictable fashion. The sane eventually consistent models will present
the conflicted versions to the user. (Optionally all sides picking the same
one value, as winner, but never throwing away others).
That is what Riak does in its correct (sadly non-default) configuration and
that is what CouchDB does.
This bubbling up of eventual consistency to the very top layer is the correct
behavior. The database might find that both you and your friend withdrew $100
from the same account. Now that account is in a negative balance perhaps. But
the important thing is it keeps both transactions. So something above can
decide to pick a winning one, not pick any and cancel both, to use maybe a
timestamp. Or to cancel the account because of possible fraud.
------
rdtsc
> Building the complex, scalable systems demanded by todays highly connected
> world with such weak guarantees is exceptionally difficult.
So is building a complex scalable system that break the laws of physics or
theorems. The world is eventually consistent. Some business domains can handle
that. Even some banking operations are eventually consistent. You can get to
an ATM in Australia and one in US at the same time and overdraw your account.
That is eventually consistency. Banks see it better that way then expect you
to wait for half an hour until they can decide on a global shared consistent
state of your account.
> Essentially, that engineer needs to manually do the hard work to ensure that
> multiple clients don’t step on each other’s toes and deal with stale data.
Sometimes that is not that hard. Sometimes business logic allows for a custom
(user-based) reconciliation of conflicts. In some cases that engineer has to
rely on magic unicorns that another engineer (who build the DB) put it in the
product to make it beat the CAP theorem. Or the administrator needs to handle
global restart of all the servers because the global cluster has become
unavailable because say one node has blown up or got partitioned. That is not
_always_ in all cases better than the case of eventual consistency.
> Google addressed the pain points of eventual consistency in a recent paper
> on its F1 database
So the answer is installing expensive GPS receiver on the roof of your data-
centers and running wires down to the cluster of machines? Yeah that works
better in some cases. But it is not the best answer always.
> Vendors should stop hiding behind the CAP theorem as a justification for
> eventual consistency.
Vendors should lie and market-speak their way out of a theorem? This has been
done before with other database products. So maybe FoundationDB is choosing
that path to follow...
> Dave Rosenthal is a co-founder of FoundationDB.
I don't know. As I often say, sometimes the biggest enemies of a an idea are
its most ardent supporters.
~~~
Dave_Rosenthal
"beat the CAP theorem" ... "break the laws of physics" ... "lie and market-
speak their way out of a theorem"
Strong words, but the article doesn't advocate any of the above. It advocates
choosing consistency over availability and lays out the reasons why that is a
good choice. Choosing consistency is hardly a radical idea and many of the
most popular NoSQL databases actually choose consistency (e.g. HBase,
MongoDB).
Indeed even Riak, the biggest advocate of eventual consistency, is working
hard to build strong consistency into Riak 2.0.
~~~
rdtsc
But choosing consistency over availability in all cases is not an answer, one
is not a strictly superior choice over another, as he article proposes.
At one level striving for consistency in a large distributed system is
fighting with the laws of physics. It has been attempted and so far Google
probably has a better handle on it but it requires tight coupling with a time
synchronization service.
> Choosing consistency is hardly a radical idea
_Claiming_ to choose it is not radical. Actually doing it, is. If you read the
"Call me maybe" you'd see that most of supposed consistent databases fail.
Granted that measures partition tolerance but at the same time usually that is
not a choice to be made (according to the author Aphyr).
> Indeed even Riak, the biggest advocate of eventual consistency, is working
> hard to build strong consistency into Riak 2.0.
That is what I've heard. Consistency for some data is the right choice, no
argument there. At the same time they are _not_ throwing away or switching
away from eventual consistency.
In fact they are the database that when preserving conflicted siblings
actually did better than most in "Call me maybe" series. CouchDB is another
database that does this right. It preserves merge conflicts explicitly during
replication. Users can chose to ignore them but it doesn't arbitrary throw
data away. It is not in the series because replication and cluster topology is
user defined and managed so there is no default, single distributed cluster
setup.
Most of the failures of databases come from trying to sweep under the rug
effects of conflicts in eventually consistency. Even Riak's last-write-wins
did that. MongoDB and others failed too. That doesn't mean eventual
consistency is flawed. Eventual consistency is a physical reality, and in some
case it is also a viable business application pattern.
~~~
mtdewcmu
This reminds me of a paper I read in college, "The Dangers of Replication."[1]
It lays out the fundamental limits on distributed updates, and it's a good one
to read if you haven't seen it before.
[1]
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~natassa/courses/15-823/current/papers...](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~natassa/courses/15-823/current/papers/gray96danger.pdf)
~~~
rdtsc
That is a pretty good paper. 1996. What it talks about is relevant. CAP wasn't
talked about and distributed databases where not the topic of casual
conversations between developers.
It mentions Lotus Notes. As a piece of trivia, the creator of CouchDB (Damien
Katz) originally worked on Lotus Notes (at IBM). Then created CouchDB in his
spare time. I believe its design is influenced by Lotus Notes quite a bit.
~~~
mtdewcmu
It wasn't a new paper when I took the class, either. None of the papers I read
for that class were new. I took the fact that it was assigned reading to mean
that the professor considered it timeless.
------
mtdewcmu
This was written by somebody with something to sell, and it sounds like it. I
was hoping he would explain the misreading of the CAP theorem, but it ends by
promising that future databases will be more powerful. Eventually, I guess?
------
zimbatm
Would love to see a call-me-maybe article on FoundationDB...
~~~
mtdewcmu
I gave you my number, but you saved it in MongoDB. Call me, maybe?
~~~
zimbatm
MongoDB did get tested :)
[http://aphyr.com/tags/jepsen](http://aphyr.com/tags/jepsen)
------
yohanatan
'Eventually consistent' is not at all a "new term".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What Oracle and IBM products became compatible after rewriting of MySQL? - rousse101
Oracle products became compatible with IBM products after MySQL was rewritten.
======
WWWade
Meh
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
When Gravity Breaks Down - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/blog/when-gravity-breaks-down
======
graycat
As we know, the path of a photon can be bent by a large mass with gravity.
Okay: Pass a photon, or electron, or other particle, through a beam splitter
and, thus, get its wave function in two parts.
Then the question seems to be, do the parts also get bent by gravity? Is there
any doubt they won't.
For a particle with mass, surely it has gravity. So, the two parts of its wave
function no longer have gravity -- is that the question she is asking? Maybe
depending on the beam splitter, the two parts of the wave function have 60%
and 40% of the gravity of the whole particle?
Get a lot of particles, say, neutrons, that do feel and generate gravity and
run them through a beam splitter. Bunch #1 goes north and bunch #2 goes east.
So far they still generate gravity? Some miles away from the beam splitter we
put detectors, one for each bunch. With a 50%-50% beam splitter, with the law
of large numbers, we detect 50% of the particles at each detector. That is,
each detector gets a part of the wave function for ALL the particles but
detects only half of the particles.
Suppose the detector for bunch #1 is some miles farther from the beam splitter
than the detector for bunch #2. So, the wave functions for bunch #2 hit their
detector before the wave functions for bunch #1 hits their detector.
Now look at the wave functions for bunch #1: About half of those wave
functions have already collapsed due to detections at the detector for bunch
#2. So, the gravity generated by the remaining wave functions of bunch #1 are,
from the law of large numbers, half what they would be without a detector for
bunch #2. So, for bunch #1, we have had faster than speed of light
communications from the detector for bunch #2 to a measurement of the gravity
of bunch #1.
Yes, we can't get a gravity detector sensitive enough, but for that theory
that's not important. Instead, for the bunches to generate gravity gets to be
an issue anyway.
~~~
comicjk
If you have a gravity detector that can distinguish where a photon's energy is
localized, it also works as a photon detector in the QM measurement sense, and
will collapse the wavefunction in the same way.
Also, remember that gravity waves move at the speed of light; you can't detect
a photon's gravity from a distance without waiting for the same light speed
delay that you would get from the photon itself.
~~~
graycat
> If you have a gravity detector that can distinguish where a photon's energy
> is localized, it also works as a photon detector in the QM measurement
> sense, and will collapse the wavefunction in the same way.
I've wondered about that: The moving particle, photon, electron, neutron, is
throwing off a gravity wave as it is moving if we don't have a gravity wave
detector detecting that wave. So, just having the detector, maybe a second
away, collapses the wave function?
My guess is that as a wave function is split into multiple parts going off in
different directions and getting far apart, the particle is not yet
"localized" in any of the parts. The idea that there is a particle,
"localized" but we just don't yet know where it is I have a tough time
accepting. Instead, until there is an _interaction_ that transfers the energy,
although maybe not the gravitational energy, there is no localization. Or, all
the parts of the wave function both feel and generate gravity until the
collapse from an interaction with, say, a detector.
Or, if only one part of the wave function has the particle, then when two
parts of the wave function are combined, as in just Young's double slit, we
should not get the interference we do get. Or, it seems we get the
interference of the wave function parts, then get the detection; there never
was anything localized until the detection at which time all the parts of the
wave function have to collapse everywhere, instantaneously, even across 1
billion light years -- no I don't like to believe that, but I'm just looking
at the interference of two parts of the wave function in Young's double slit:
If the particle was really in just one of the two parts of the wave function,
then tough to believe in the interference we do see.
~~~
j1vms
> So, just having the detector, maybe a second away, collapses the wave
> function? My guess is that (...)
This gets to to crux of the issue the author (and others in contemporary
physics, Hawking included for that matter) was raising. We can conjecture, via
theoretical physics, a whole slew of possible models of the universe that
combine general relativity and quantum mechanics. But, there is a lack of
experimental evidence (or interpretation of existing results) to resolve the
ongoing "debates". And there hasn't been any real progress, in that respect,
in the past 80 years.
We need to test the edge cases of both theories as best we know how. For
example, tunnel to the center of the earth (or another planet?) and verify our
existing models in the gravity well, maybe repeat the double-slit experiment
remotely while we're there. I'd say a task much more difficult, engineering-
wise, then flying a human being to another planet and back.
~~~
garmaine
Gravity decreases as you move inside the Earth.
------
_bxg1
Nautilus always does such a great job of putting concepts in layman's terms
and making them flavorful.
------
gpsx
There appears to be a very basic error in this writeup. I say there appears to
be because it seems to be so easy to misunderstand language used in casual
descriptions of quantum mechanics. Neither I nor the writer is a lawyer. My
apologies if I misunderstood what was written. My experience here in general
is when something seems very clearly wrong, it is my misunderstanding. None
the less...
Quantum mechanics does not say a particle can be in two places at the same
time. A wave function does not say a particle is at point A AND point b. The
wave function says the particele is at point A OR point B.
To take this a step further, if the particle has an electric field, then the
wave function would look like the following:
(particle at A AND electric field around point A) OR (particle at B AND
electric field around point B)
The wave function would NOT be:
(particle at A OR particle at B) AND (electric field around A OR electric
field around B)
And also not:
(particle at A AND particle at B) AND (electric field around A and B)
Presumably the same applies to a gravitational field.
~~~
drdeca
I like this description of it :
[https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-talk-3](https://www.smbc-
comics.com/comic/the-talk-3)
key quote:
'Superposition doesn't mean "and", but it also doesn't mean "or".' 'It means a
complex linear combination of a 0 state and a 1 state. You should think of it
as a new ontological category: a way of combining things that doesn't really
map onto any classical concept.'
~~~
SuoDuanDao
I like that quote myself, but one thing I don't understand is - are the
amplitudes always of a magnitude 1? Because if qbits are really always the
same magnitude, why represent them as two-dimensional? Wouldn't the math be
easier if we converted it to polar form and just had one measurement per
superposition?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm not formally trained in any of this
stuff...
~~~
millstone
It's a good question. The cartoon says that qubits are "unit vectors in 2D
Hilbert space." However because the length is 1, you can think of it as a
vector in 2D projective Hilbert space. Projective space is what you get when
you throw away a vector's length and only talk about its angles.
Some intuition: if you have a particle and you look everywhere for it, your
chance of finding it must be 100%. It can't be 50% (where could it be?) and it
can't be 200% (duh).
QM in one dimension is formulated as "a 1d complex unit vector", i.e. a
complex number of magnitude 1, which is routinely represented in polar form (a
complex exponential).
QM in two dimensions is a "2d complex unit vector" which is really 3d: you get
three linearly independent components, and then the fourth one is decided for
you. You can think of this as spherical coordinates, but complex numbers are
much easier to manipulate, so that's what we do.
------
skybrian
If existing theory covers all practical experiments, maybe we don't need a new
theory? Sometimes you just gotta declare victory and move on to some other
field.
~~~
garmaine
You could have said the same thing in 1880, and indeed many people famously
did declare “the end of physics” at that time.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Drinking Can Make You Socially Awkward - gjenkin
http://www.livescience.com/39386-alcohol-intoxication-brain-communication-social-cues.html
======
gexla
Drinking can also impair your ability to drive a vehicle, walk in a straight
line or even to be able to walk at all. Of course drinking affects your
ability to interpret social cues. And if that doesn't make you socially
awkward, how about passing out in the hosts bathroom draped over the toilet?
How about puking all over the floor when you don't quite make it to the
bathroom?
Geez, I think this article is stating the obvious. ;)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Caltech Professor Emeritus, Author Tom M. Apostol, Dies at 92 - tokenadult
http://www.pasadenanow.com/main/caltech-professor-emeritus-author-tom-m-apostol-dies-at-93/
======
GrumpyYoungMan
Tom Apostol was also part of the team that put together "The Mechanical
Universe", a highly acclaimed 52 episode series of video lectures that cover a
full undergraduate physics course.
The creators of the program provide all episodes online at
[https://www.learner.org/resources/series42.html](https://www.learner.org/resources/series42.html)
I never met the man but I learned a lot from him. May he rest in peace.
~~~
jacobolus
That site says: “After June 30, 2016, we will no longer distribute this series
on DVD, and the videos will no longer be available online.” Anyone know why,
or if they plan to do anything else with the videos?
~~~
lstamour
An explanation is given here:
[http://scaapt.org/archives/1286](http://scaapt.org/archives/1286)
> "You may ask why the series is being retired. The original producers
> (Intelecom) do not have the staff or the information available to locate all
> the third party rights holders of the additional footage and rights to that
> footage has expired. Therefore, it must be taken out of distribution."
I imagine that unless unknown rights-holders pull them off YouTube (as they
apparently haven't yet...) then it will still be available some places.
The above page also notes the availability of
[https://www.learner.org/courses/physics/](https://www.learner.org/courses/physics/)
which includes 11 videos.
~~~
hackuser
Our intellectual property system gets in the way again. Why don't all the
limited government, anti-regulatory people complain about this?
------
graycat
There is a film of a way up, over the top lecture in plane geometry by Andrew
Gleason with Tom Apostol.
I saw it broadcast late one night on a PBS station and intended for recording
for playing in high school classrooms.
Elegant. Powerful. Nothing like what see in common high school plane geometry
texts. I got in a few minutes after the start and recognized a lion by his
paw. If you liked plane geometry, then you will be in love with this lecture.
I just did a Google search looking for a copy on YouTube and found nothing.
Anyone know where that lecture is?
One of my favorite books, I worked to buy used long after it was out of print,
is
Tom M. Apostol, _Mathematical Analysis: A Modern Approach to Advanced
Calculus_ , Addison-Wesley, Reading, Massachusetts, 1957.
And that is advanced calculus more like your ugrad physics prof will see it.
Great to have when studying Rudin, exterior algebra but having to study
material much like physicists did it 100 years ago.
------
jordigh
I learned analytic number theory from his text book. Probably unlike most
other HN participants, that is where I learned big-oh notation, in its
original context: measuring the growth of arithmetic functions. I distilled
what I learned into a short little undergrad paper:
[http://jordi.platinum.linux.pl/dirichlet-
primes.pdf](http://jordi.platinum.linux.pl/dirichlet-primes.pdf)
Thank you, Tom Apostol, for writing a book on analytic number theory for me to
learn from.
~~~
nhatcher
I also learned the big-oh notation there. Among many, many other things.
Absolutely great book.
~~~
ninguem2
Me three.
~~~
kkylin
Absolutely, great introduction to analytic number theory for anyone curious
about the subject.
------
tokenadult
I learned about Apostol's death from a post by a very astute mathematical
biologist, Lior Pachter, who was once a student of Apostol's. The post is "The
Ice Cream Cone Proof,"[1] which nicely illustrates Apostol's brilliance as a
teacher.
[1] [https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2016/05/09/the-ice-
cream-c...](https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2016/05/09/the-ice-cream-cone-
proof/)
~~~
abecedarius
I'm sad; I had him for the same course Pachter describes. One time he lectured
on the prime number theorem, just for entertainment: he didn't prove it, but
got deep enough to rather blow me away.
Here's a more recent elementary talk of his:
[http://www.its.caltech.edu/~mamikon/VisualCalc.html](http://www.its.caltech.edu/~mamikon/VisualCalc.html)
------
5olidor
Apostol's calculus texts were my first experience with 'real' proof-based
mathematics, and I also learned real analysis through his Mathematical
Analysis book. Good times; his books taught me a lot.
He wrote with clarity and conciseness; when I read Apostol it always seemed
like not a single word was added unnecessarily. I highly suggest picking up
his books, and am sad to see that he passed away.
------
mathheaven
If there is a Math's Heaven with the Book in it, I hope he joins the chorus.
(*) The Book as the place were the greatest theorems and proofs are located,
P. Erdos, exposed in Noga Alon the probabilistic method.
By the way, there is a comment by someone nhatcher, is it the famous topology
author?
------
ridgeguy
Tom Apostol was my freshman math prof. He made math a useful tool for me. He
was a great teacher. Thanks so much, Tom.
~~~
kurthr
I only saw Apostle smile once. It was Gauss' birthday, which he always
celebrated in April with a cake. It had the Flux Theorem (Divergence to
Surface Integral), and I got the "dx" labeled piece.
I complained that he had given me the smallest piece, and saw just the hint of
a curl to his lips.
Hopefully, the "useful theorem"* didn't die with him...
*Apostle always referred to the useful theorem when proving problems in class... if you could figure it out, you were done.
~~~
ridgeguy
Check out page 212, 1969 Big T (lower photo). Big smile. But yeah, didn't see
that very often. Upper photo of him on that page is amusing also.
[1]
[http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechCampusPubs:20111101-15354...](http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechCampusPubs:20111101-153546791)
~~~
kurthr
I am tempted to believe that Lloydies had something to do with that 8^O...
~~~
CurtHagenlocher
We live for those we love and die.
------
rcpt
I picked up his calculus book for the first time almost 15 years ago and still
remember so much about it. Integration explained before derivatives, the
method of exhaustion at the start, and that early (first?) exercise about "a
number less than arbitrary epsilon therefore it's 0" all stuck with me through
the end of grad school and to today.
------
curiousDog
Wow! I didn't know he was alive until recently. I used his books in high
school extensively when preparing for my IIT entrance exam back in India. May
he rest in peace.
~~~
JorgeGT
Same here, didn't know! My father (a maths professor) showed me Apostol's
books on calculus, always recommends them very much. May the earth be light on
him.
------
WalterBright
My freshman & sophomore calc classes used his books 1 and 2. I still have
them.
~~~
tzs
...and, quite remarkably for a calculus textbook that is still in use at many
schools ~40 years later, the editions you and I bought at Caltech in the late
'70s are the _same_ editions that are used today. Volume I, second edition,
1967, and Volume II, second edition, 1969.
I wonder if there are any families where a parent went to such a school and
bought these, and then their child went to such a school and used their
parent's copies, and then their child did the same?
~~~
WalterBright
I was amazed to find those 2 books going for about $250 each on Amazon. Pretty
good for 50 year old textbooks!
I bought mine used for maybe $5 each from some foolish upperclassman who
thought he was done with calculus.
~~~
CurtHagenlocher
I now strongly regret having sold mine; the brief moment of glee and small
amount of cash was small potatoes compared to the number of times I've since
wanted to re-read them.
(Also glee-killing: AMa 95)
~~~
kkylin
Off-topic, but am curious: was there a "standard" text for AMa 95? I didn't go
to Caltech, but heard a bit about the course from a friend who did. These days
I sometimes teach our equivalent course, and am always looking for good
resources. Thanks!
~~~
abecedarius
They sold the paperbound lecture notes at the Caltech bookstore and presumably
nowhere else (at least back in the 80s).
~~~
kkylin
Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Climate scientists push back against catastrophic scenarios - nikbackm
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/climate-scientists-push-back-against-catastrophic-scenarios/
======
ZeroGravitas
This headline seems misleading.
There's plenty of scenarios that fall short of "Earth uninhabitable by the end
of the current century" that still deserve the adjective "catastrophic".
I would go as far as saying that even the absolutely best case (and totally
unrealistic) scenario, where all countries immediately focus all their
attention on fighting climate change is still going to be catastrophic for
many people.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Android Who Cried Wolf - alexandros
http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/16/best-android-phone/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
======
dannyr
Sometimes I think MG Seigler is inventing things just to write an article.
So Android has a problem because it is innovating faster than the competition?
Android is doomed because there are too many good phones?
The HTC Desire is not better than Nexus One. Sure the hardware specs are
almost the same but Desire has the Sense UI. This means that it may have
Android 2.1 right now but it will not have the latest and greatest version of
Android right away.
All the latest updates on Android reaches Nexus One first. That is the big
advantage. If you have a Nexus One right now, you should not be disappointed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to move up in career in mid 30s? - tlabs
Hi HN,<p>I am hoping to tap into wisdom of all brilliant people here. I am mid 30s male. I work for FAANG but not compensated well enough to call myself upper middle class by any means.<p>What has happened over last three years is truly phenomenal and sad at the same time. If you look at Blind app, where people discuss compensation and offer numbers, I feel I am way behind. It took me 10+ years to cross 200k mark. My post tax comp. is still below 200k.
Now, most people get 200k with 4-5 years of experience. Here at FAANG and at start-up alike, 200k or more is very very common.<p>A typical household TC is well above 350k or more in Seattle metro and in Bay area.<p>I feel stuck at my job. I can't jump immediately due to visa uncertainties and algorithmic interview hell going on right now. It takes good 4-6 months of preparation. I don't know how others are able to do it so quickly. It's possible I have slowed down. Haha!<p>How to grow in career as male in mid 30s? On long term, I want to enter executive management. I don't think I have any mentors or anyone honest (without agenda) to help out. What do you suggest?<p>Edit - I am not a software engineer. I am managing a small team of 8 engineers.
======
hhs
Along with income, have you thought about building your assets (e.g., stocks,
relationships, things you make) to generate wealth?
Paul Graham's essay is useful:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html)
~~~
muzani
Wealth comes from owning things that become more valuable, rather than a
stream of income. You can put effort into earning that $350k compensation. Or
you can try to invest that effort into building or owning other things that
get more valuable. A lot of things don't actually become more valuable
passively, though stocks are an exception.
~~~
hhs
Totally agree, appreciating assets are useful for wealth. Land, oil, and
minerals are good examples.
------
volk13
Oh boy, wish I could move to the U.S. and have something near your actual
income. I'm on my thirthies, married with an almost over the minimum wage
stuck web dev job on Brazil :/
------
sethammons
Being at a FAANG, I'd assume there is a career track and progression guide.
Consult that. If not then that is really fantastic as you can work with others
to make one. Manage up: talk with your manager and find how you can help them
grow. Asked them how you can grow. These should be happening in regular one on
ones. Are those not happening? Another opportunity to advance the org and
yourself. Finding ways to work at the next level.
Also, as for salary, are you factoring in benefits and equity? Most who report
over $200k are factoring those in. Have you had comp discussions with your
manager? Also, it may appear that others are making more when they are not.
Some people falsely report earning, either by inflating the numbers or by
remaining silent. As a data point, I'm a principal developer at a fast growing
publicly traded company and my base salary is under what you are reporting.
Also, algorithm questions for a manager interview? Really?
------
JSeymourATL
> I don't think I have any mentors or anyone honest (without agenda) to help
> out.
Self-awareness might be helpful. How are you perceived by the Higher-ups? What
do you need to work on to get better?
What are you doing to mentor/develop/influence those junior to you?
------
mjmj
If you’d consider non fang, not all companies use algorithmic interviews. So
you should definitely be interviewing elsewhere if that’s what you want.
Excluding visa issues.
Also seems strange you put your age in the title, mid 30s isn’t exceptionally
old at FAANG companies in my experience.
Also continually comparing yourself can be toxic so maybe take a break from
blind.
------
x0hm
You tell us.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook's Zuckerberg Says Customs about Privacy are Evolving - niyazpk
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebooks_zuckerberg_says_the_age_of_privacy_is_ov.php
======
paul
I think it's worth noting that this title is a fabrication, not an actual
quote.
What he actually said is interesting, but wouldn't get as much traffic or
angry comments:
"When I got started in my dorm room at Harvard, the question a lot of people
asked was 'why would I want to put any information on the Internet at all? Why
would I want to have a website?'
"And then in the last 5 or 6 years, blogging has taken off in a huge way and
all these different services that have people sharing all this information.
People have really gotten comfortable not only sharing more information and
different kinds, but more openly and with more people. That social norm is
just something that has evolved over time.
"We view it as our role in the system to constantly be innovating and be
updating what our system is to reflect what the current social norms are.
"A lot of companies would be trapped by the conventions and their legacies of
what they've built, doing a privacy change - doing a privacy change for 350
million users is not the kind of thing that a lot of companies would do. But
we viewed that as a really important thing, to always keep a beginner's mind
and what would we do if we were starting the company now and we decided that
these would be the social norms now and we just went for it."
(transcript copied from rww, but it looks accurate to me)
------
fauigerzigerk
What we should always keep in mind when bosses of ad funded services speak
about what users want is that these users are not their customers.
Users are just an indirect means to make advertisers happy, and that
indirection is a complex thing. If Facebook can make advertisers happy by
hurting users without losing them they will.
Facebook has a history of deception. Nobody should be surprised to hear the
kind of disingenuous nonsense coming from Mr. Zuckerberg.
~~~
jacquesm
I can't stand the guy, but at least he's eating his own dogfood:
<http://www.facebook.com/markzuckerberg>
~~~
kelnos
That's actually his "fan" page. His FB profile page is here:
<http://www.facebook.com/zuck>
... and I'm surprised to see it seems to be mostly open.
~~~
richardw
Is it? I see "Mark only shares some of his Profile information with everyone."
and the rest looks pretty locked down to me. Who are his friends? Where pics?
~~~
kelnos
Ahh, I guess he has his profile set to "friends of friends," so I can see his
profile info since he and I have mutual friends.
------
makecheck
Facebook is essentially free (except for advertising). The exposure of
information _is_ the price of admission. If these were physical assets, you
might have to pay someone $3 for a padlock to feel more secure; but has anyone
paid Facebook even $3 to use the site? No? And they feel entitled to gripe
about all the things Facebook isn't doing for them?
We live in an age where information can be sent anywhere, instantly, with high
fidelity. It is impossible to "secure" information if someone sees what you're
doing, you don't notice them, and they decide to take a picture with their
cell phone, send a text message, or otherwise tell the world what you're up
to.
Maybe it's "easier" to blame someone like Facebook, but the reality is that no
one takes personal responsibility. If you can't handle the whole world knowing
what you did, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it; these days, that's about
the best defense you have.
~~~
rythie
People pay what Facebook asks of them, i.e. nothing except ads. It was on
those grounds people accepted as their social network. By contributing my
content to Facebook I help make it a place for my friends to come to often and
for Facebook to sell ads.
If Facebook don't like the price the sell their product for, the like any
company, have the freedom to change the price.
That's why people feel entitled.
------
chrischen
The only reason I used facebook was because it was clean and closed. I think
somebody's just jealous of Twitter.
Also notice I said _was_. it's getting progressively less clean and closed.
~~~
axod
I knew there would be someone who makes this funny claim :)
Yep, I'm sure facebook are hugely jealous of twitters revenue :D
Seriously. Wake up.
~~~
chrischen
Right and they want us to open up our information so everyone can be friends
with each other and there will be world peace. (sarcasm)
------
patio11
I have seen very little discussion of the business rationale for this, which
is clear: Facebook wants all of its user-generated content to be searchable,
which would VASTLY increase the amount and price of the display advertising
which they sell.
~~~
ErrantX
Can you clarify what you mean by that; does it mean advertisers will be able
to see how big the network is and view some demographics? Or are you saying it
allows advertisers to push the ethical boundaries and try to link impressions
to real people via the searchable data? (or something else?)
As far as I read their terms they cant just give advertisers any details about
you; even if that info is public.
~~~
patio11
I mean that Facebook is essentially a display business and that most display
businesses derive 70%+ of their traffic from Google searches, but Facebook
cannot benefit from this unless they put their information public.
Essentially, if your feed is public, then your name, stream, and life is just
one big content creation stream for Facebook to show display ads against. Just
doing it for _names_ is worth hundreds of millions of dollars -- think of how
many there are, how often they are searched, and how little competition there
is for most of them. Domain authority alone should mean that Facebook
dominates for searches of people who do not maintain their own websites.
~~~
jacquesm
What surprises me is that linked-in actually comes up more than facebook even
today when searching for people.
~~~
axod
How many people search google for people :/
If I'm trying to find old friends etc, I go straight to facebook and search
there.
~~~
gnaritas
Are you kidding? Facebook search sucks, they don't have monitors/alerts, or
any kind of complex searching like Google. Google still owns search and plenty
of us still use Google when looking for people because believe it or not, not
everyone uses Facebook.
------
Uchikoma
Not sure if he feels the same concerning his life, what he eats, his house,
his family his movements, his board decisions, his illnesses.
------
poutine
I'm starting a new age of privacy by deleting my Facebook account. Bite me
Zuckerberg.
~~~
bitdiddle
how do you delete, is that the same as deactivate?
~~~
haupt
Nope. Delete it here:
[https://ssl.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=delete_a...](https://ssl.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=delete_account)
~~~
bitdiddle
thanks, done.
EDIT: actually I guess it's deleted in 14 days. KInd of like a divorce,
there's a wait period.
------
jganetsk
Everyone's bitching and moaning about a quote of Eric Schmidt's that was taken
out of context... when it was Zuck that we should've worried about.
~~~
waterlesscloud
But this has _always_ been Zuck's position. He hasn't always focused on saying
it in public, but he's always had little patience for people wanting privacy
in social networks.
------
TheKid
His statements indicate they are ignoring the fact that the social norms of
bloggers and the social norms of friends connecting on a website and sharing
information are not the same. Assuming that Facebook's users think they are
publishing in public, versus publishing to a specific list of friends that
they control is ludicrous.
The fact that this is being ignored is very disturbing. This move is clearly
being driven by business decisions without the consideration of its users and
their privacy.
------
s3graham
HN's s3graham says The Age of Facebook is Over.
Wishfully.
------
wjdix
What he's saying is incredibly beneficial to himself. How convenient for him
to say that no one cares about privacy after he took away that option from his
users.
------
malloreon
Apropos comment from Reddit:
summary:
"When I was trying to get people to trust me with their personal details, I
completely understood just how much they valued their privacy.
"Now that I know just how much advertisers are prepared to pay for said
personal details, I'm suddenly convinced that no one values privacy anymore."
------
theashworld
The problem is that most folks are not made aware of the fact that privacy is
a one-way street. Once open to all, the information is always lurking around
somewhere, basically impossible to delete. I try to explain that to non-techie
folks and they don't believe it.
------
dtf
Facebook users are an odd bunch. They'll bitch about privacy, turn their
privacy settings up to max en masse, and form angry Facebook protest groups at
every little change in the company's policy. Then they'll go and sign up to a
bunch of spam applications written by people they don't know and give them
unfettered access to their profil.
I'm with Zuckerberg on this one. I reckon the world could be a better place if
everyone laid their cards on the table. I keep my profile as open as possible,
following the rule that I don't post anything that I wouldn't be happy for
anyone to see.
~~~
psranga
So basically you're using FB to build a public profile (i.e., your "brand")?
IMHO, this is not the use case for most FB users. I use FB to talk semi-
privately with my friends (my expectation is that FB be as private as
unencrypted email, which it now isn't).
I would use LinkedIn+Twitter to build a profile/brand.
~~~
dtf
Brand? That makes it all sound rather soulless :-(
It's just a personal page. I use to keep contact with friends and share photos
and random musings, like twitter with a few extras. Unless you're being ultra-
cynical, I don't think everyone on twitter is trying to build a brand. Some
people just like to talk.
------
stan_rogers
Scott McNealy said it in 1999. And his advice applies today as it did then:
get over it.
~~~
haupt
Steve Rambam said it, too, but I still don't believe it.
------
cookiecaper
Anyone who expects any kind of privacy after uploading something to a site
like Facebook is totally crazy.
If you are concerned about privacy, run your own servers, use encryption, and
manage things yourself. The moment you transfer control to a third party you
lose any reasonable expectation of privacy.
Facebook is a sharing platform. It's not meant to keep things private or
quiet. Those who upload pictures or info to Facebook, HotOrNot, 4chan, or
anything else and expects them to just fade away or be ignored is highly
misinformed.
The internet is a public place. You only put things on the internet if you
want to share them. If you have something private, you have to make lots and
lots of extra precautions and can't just count on Facebook to keep it locked
up safe for you forever.
Almost by definition security costs convenience and effort. There's no way
around it.
~~~
psranga
I think most reasonable people would question your claim that you lose any
_reasonable_ expectation of privacy just because you shared something with
your friends. I view Facebook as an easier way to communicate with my friends
than by cc'ing them on emails.
Do you think the expectation that email be reasonably private is unreasonable?
What about physical letters? What's the difference between the above and
Facebook?
As the linked article said, Facebook for long has claimed their better
"reasonable" privacy controls as a strength.
~~~
cookiecaper
I guess it depends on how you define "reasonably" private.
E-mail is a little different than something like Facebook, initially, because
Facebook persistently displays your data whereas email is a one-time thing;
you list the people you want to see the email, send it, they receive it, and
it's offline in the meantime, it's not a shared asset. So, in that way, it's
not subject to the same kind of possible privacy alterations that a social
network where your data is always displayed and available is.
That said, e-mail is rather insecure. While it might take more effort than
sending a friend request, intercepting an email is still pretty easy, and
people at Google can access your data. While it's not likely that there are
Google employees going through random email boxes for fun, the contents and
metadata of your emails can be disclosed through subpoena, security breaches,
or other means.
So, while there is some privacy in a normal Gmail account, say, enough to keep
a casual home or business user satisfied, that privacy is still highly
dependent on competence and goodwill at Google.
The bottom line is that if you have something that really needs to be kept
private, you need to at least encrypt your data with something like PGP. Your
data is not private at Google and it is certainly not private on Facebook or
Myspace, whose business depends on increasing pageviews and time spent on site
at minimal cost (i.e., making extant content available to more people).
------
jacopogio
we may need a NEW really-Private sort-of-Facebook => anyone? It should be : \-
1) open-source \- 2) ...
~~~
jacquesm
We need a distributed facebook, where users keep control of their data, like a
giant webring (ok, web-graph) system.
~~~
jacopogio
I like that! What more ?
3)...
------
anonjon
When I first used facebook I seem to remember that there were no privacy
settings whatsoever, but people who could see you were restricted to your
college.
When Facebook was first opened to people outside of your college, there was a
lot of controversy about it. All of your information was (suddenly) open to
the public. People had stuff up there that they didn't want Joe weirdo on the
internet looking up. I seem to remember Mark saying something to the effect of
(at the time), 'I think this should be an open platform for everyone to see
everyone else's information'.
But then a mass exodus from Facebook started, and people were deleting their
profiles, etc.. (I know I removed a lot from mine). After the uproar, he
finally caved and they added privacy settings.
If anything Zuckerberg has been consistent about what he wants the platform to
be. The real issue is that his 'consistent' view is /not/ what the majority of
Facebook users actually want. They want to connect with people that they
already know on Facebook, and be able to share stuff within a small community.
The truth is that there are a lot of really sketchy people on the internet,
who want to steal your information, stalk you, and such. Putting up the type
of things that you do on facebook, publicly, is simply not a good idea.
------
sown
I hate people.
------
Pahalial
CEO makes statement whose widespread acceptance would see his company's
product embraced a hundredfold more while outright dispelling the most common
concerns about it.
News at 11.
------
thinkbohemian
I guess with sites like tweet-poop, saying privacy is over is not completely
out of the blue but still...the founding principal that got people hooked to
FB in the first place was they trusted it to keep their information secure.
This statement and the latest corporate actions is a complete slap in the face
to all original users.
~~~
baguasquirrel
I don't think people ever really expected FB to keep their information totally
secure. I still remember the college days when I logged into
school.facebook.com. The implicit understanding back then was that only your
h.s. and college fwenz could see your shit, because the only way to get onto
FB was to use your .edu email addy.
It was a Faustian bargain. In exchange for being able to see when your friends
broke up, they could see your status as well. We were all hooked, because as
it turns out, teenagers and college kiddies like to gossip about each other.
FB made it progressively easier to stalk your friends, and each time people
would complain (I think the news feed was Rubicon), but the more they put on,
the more people would bite.
Fast forward to today, and now your mother, your boss, that goddamn cousin of
yours, they can all see everything about you. Unless you use those privacy
controls. This is a bit different from the carefree gossiping amongst kiddies
thing. It just doesn't really feel like the old days anymore.
~~~
jeffreylo
Even then, those privacy controls are flawed. [http://gawker.com/5428155/the-
facebook-privacy-settings-youv...](http://gawker.com/5428155/the-facebook-
privacy-settings-youve-lost-forever) has a good summary.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Parse offers one-click migration for SimpleGeo Storage customers. - csmajorfive
https://parse.com/simplegeo
======
ccorda
Parse competes with Urban Airship in being a push notification service
provider, so this isn't just a lifeline, it's competitive:
<https://www.parse.com/pricing>
<http://urbanairship.com/pricing/>
~~~
rmason
Its clever marketing and they're scrappy competitors to respond in 24 hours to
the news and turn it to their advantage.
------
csmajorfive
TechCrunch coverage: [http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/13/with-simplegeos-
shutdown-im...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/13/with-simplegeos-shutdown-
imminent-parse-swoops-in-with-a-life-preserver/)
------
Klinky
Isn't this just one aspect of what SimpleGeo offered?
~~~
csmajorfive
Yep, we're only migrating the "Storage" product. Factual is taking over
customers from the "Places" product.
------
vicngtor
Wow that's impressive!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hacking the Hiring Process - johns
http://blog.twilio.com/2009/09/hacking-the-hiring-process-part-1.html
======
tom_b
Using some test like this to rate applicants probably only points out a
weakness in communication skills, but is better than just slamming through
random resumes. A well-written cover letter should easily answer the first two
(and listed as most important to twilio in the article as the folks building
the team) points listed.
I think it is also entirely NOT scalable. What if you get 1000 submissions? In
my area of the world (Research Triangle Park in NC) there is a company that
famously gets hundreds to a thousand of resume and cover letter submissions
per SW dev opening, especially when the job market is tight. One healthcare
software startup I knew about was getting so many resumes for open positions
that they developed a policy of trashing resumes received after 9AM on any
given day. Just to keep the piles manageable. How can that be effective?
But maybe a bulk of the applicants to the positions mentioned in the article
clearly just shot a resume at a job listing with no further effort
demonstrated? Can we get some numbers on how many applicants just sent a
resume versus attempting some of the "extra" work you asked for?
I've thought for some time that the best thing an applicant to a job could do
would be to provide a portfolio of code (or website or demo) that clearly
shows finished projects and results they have achieved previously. But that
could be a pretty intense process on the employer side - how do you review
even 50 of these portfolios in a meaningful way if each one is even small code
samples (say 2K lines of code)? Then the employer and candidate could sit down
and talk through the design choices and schedule trade-offs made on that code.
Plus, using previously written code completely punts on the idea that you
might prefer a really smart hacker who is inexperienced in some technology
instead of poor developer who has spent a career in that technology churning
out mediocre work. My guess is that the hackers who would care enough to
actually have a code portfolio out there for employers to see are probably a
cut above the average software dev type anyway.
Maybe this is my startup - given many portfolios of hacker's work, how do we
make it effectively searchable by employers who need to find good matches?
There has to be a good web app out there for this - recruiters get big
percentages on candidate placements, so there is clearly some potential
market. I don't have any data to back up this supposition, but don't we think
that recruiter candidate placements can be pretty closely approximated with
some data mining given a portfolio of work and simple heuristics?
An additional problem is that many hires are made via personal networks - it's
just easier to say, oh yeah, that person worked with our friends who were
really happy with his/her work on that project, we should think about bringing
him/her in.
The problem of hiring and finding great candidates has been bubbling in my
head. But I haven't had any blinding flashes of inspiration for really great
solutions - any thoughts out there?
~~~
eru
Please keep me informed, if you hit on anything. I like your way of thinking
through it.
------
JshWright
"Can they write a little code? Do they have enough experience to be able to
deploy code somewhere? (An[sic] fairly good test we've found of whether or not
somebody is a "hacker". Hackers have playgrounds.)"
I guess you could assume a negative correlation there (no playground == not a
'hacker'), but I doubt there's an equally strong positive correlation. I know
plenty of people with a VPS or in-home sandbox server whom I wouldn't put in
the 'hacker' category (myself included).
------
maxcap
(more details follow)
You should not hire people that do any of the things you ask. They are giving
their valuable services away for free - since your company exists to make
money, your employees giving their time so freely is likely to affect your
profitability.
People thinking about applying - Reconsider. The company is too cheap to pay
for good work - they extract what they need from interviews. Its likely that
you'll never discuss pay with them since you're not going to get hired once
they have their answers.
(the details)
Getting work done in an interview is a poor practice since the candidate does
not know if the work relates to an actual problem or is fictional.
If an actual problem, you are asking for the candidate's time and could end up
using the candidate's approach - this puts you into a conflict of interest:
you have a candidate that just gave you what you need and you are in a
position to hire.
If the problem is fictional, why bother? How does it help?
Besides, candidates are smart too: it's likely they hacking the interview
process too. Not sure where that leaves anyone, but good luck with that.
[want a solution? hire me ;) ]
~~~
eru
Possible solution: Pay the candidates for the time they spent working on your
problems in the interview.
Though I doubt this is a problem in interviews. But asking for a solution even
before the interview will skew your distribution of appliciants, like you
point out.
Not sure if this is a bad thing --- you want to hire people for whom solving
your problems is easy.
~~~
maxcap
It is a problem for freelancers - people always ask for free solutions to real
problems and various ways. Candidate employees are in the same situation, but
during the worst possible time - the interview.
As you said, you want to hire people for whom solving your problems is easy.
Keep in mind that your problems are not unique and probably already have a
solution, so you really need someone that.....woops...almost gave it away ;)
~~~
eru
Yes. Though drafting a cover letter and tweaking your resume also takes some
time (not to mention the research).
------
asmosoinio
Good ideas! I have been doing a bit of hiring lately, and wish I had read this
before I started. Sounds like a really scalable way of doing a first
selection.
~~~
rfreytag
It is completely scalable. I did it. The second round was an estimate for a
more significant 'paid' task that advanced the company's goals (i.e. real
work). The third round was completion and delivery of the task (which paid
just enough to keep qualified candidates interested). My time was more
valuable than the cost of having the few interested candidates that got that
far do the various useful bits of work.
At the end I did a few long long interviews and really got to know who I was
going to be working with and they me.
------
dmor
Web Technologies Engineer:
[http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=743818&f...](http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=743818&fromSearch=0&sik=1252997713223)
Twilio Core Engineer:
[http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=743817&f...](http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=743817&fromSearch=1&sik=1252997713223)
------
shiranaihito
Pretty soon we'll be seeing headlines like "Hacking riding a bicycle"..
~~~
jcl
This is actually a fairly clever and atypical approach to hiring. I agree that
the meaning of "hacking" is often stretched, and maybe this is one of those
cases, but it's hardly the worst.
(However, like the Microsoft/Google brainteaser interviews, I could see these
little extraneous tasks getting pretty annoying if they became widespread.)
------
ilyak
"You're a web developer? Write a few lines of PHP code." Lovely PHP people!
Please go love yourself!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Alex Tabarrok: Insiders, Outsiders and Unemployment - cwan
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/02/insiders-outsiders-and-unemployment.html
======
rg
Moreover, Brad DeLong writes of this blog entry, "I endorse almost everything
Alex Tabarrok Says Here" [http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/02/i-endorse-
almost-every...](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/02/i-endorse-almost-
everything-alex-tabarrok-says-here.html)
------
tehgeekmeister
this is exactly the wrong approach to solving this problem. scary.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Gesture Based Computing Gloves - BenS
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/gesture-computing-0520.html
======
henning
The SIGGRAPH paper describing how the glove works in more detail is available
as a 5.7 MB PDF here:
[http://people.csail.mit.edu/rywang/handtracking/s09-hand-
tra...](http://people.csail.mit.edu/rywang/handtracking/s09-hand-tracking.pdf)
I thought it was fairly readable, you can at least get the gist of how they
use the database of gestures to estimate the pose of the hand on a per-frame
basis.
~~~
joeyo
Thanks for that. I was curious how they are getting depth information with
only a single camera; it looks like they are using knowledge of the size of
the users hand to infer depth.
------
gfodor
Incredible. The problem is, they look like bowling shoes for your hands.
I'm betting you can fix this by putting some paint on there that reflects
infrared or ultraviolet light at different frequencies. Might need to upgrade
that webcam though.
~~~
stcredzero
Lots of current webcams already pick up invisible infrared frequencies quite
nicely.
------
DotSauce
Phenomenal. I was skeptical about the software lagging, but the video mentions
and proves it is low latency.
I can't wait until desks and peripherals are adapted further for people to
stand up while working at a PC. Tired of sittin' on my ass! ;)
------
madebylaw
It would be awesome to pair this with haptic feedback and actually be able to
'touch' the blocks as you're stacking them, etc.
~~~
joeyo
That's a really excellent point. Displaying other contact indicators (surface
deformation?) when virtual objects come into contact with other (real or
virtual) objects would probably also be beneficial.
------
jamesbritt
I swear some day I will take my Mattel Power Glove out of the closet and
finally make it work, dammit.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Black Mail - yeuking
https://telegra.ph/Black-mail-04-14
======
jussehoo
I received those too, and I ignored them. Some (usually old) sites storage
passwords as plain text, and if that kind of database gets hacked, they spam
you those black mails, often assuming you use the same password everywhere. As
a safety measure, changing the password should be enough, and in the future
use throw-away e-mails for shady sites, and two-factor authentication for
trustful ones.
~~~
yeuking
thanks for suggestion
------
yeuking
I have received this email from unknown sender. Should I ignore this email?
Since he mention my really old password on email.
~~~
GraemeL
Ignore it. They got the password from a data breach somewhere.
Change the password on any other site that you use that password for.
Using a password manager makes it much easier to use unique, complex passwords
for each site you have a login for.
~~~
yeuking
Thanks, anyway I have changed all the password since that time.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Beanstalk launches Mercurial support - alexknowshtml
http://blog.beanstalkapp.com/post/21854530710/introducing-mercurial-repositories-and-svn-1-7-coming
======
alexknowshtml
As of today we have native support for SVN, Git, and Hg.
We've also open sourced the Ruby API we wrote for Mercuiral:
<https://github.com/isabanin/mercurial-ruby>
Enjoy!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I wrote an entire blog post explaining why I’m quitting iOS… - mootymoots
http://www.reynoldsftw.com/2011/09/i-wrote-an-entire-blog-post-explaining-why-im-quitting-ios/
======
enobrev
I agree that application titles should be unique. I'm surprised that's not the
case as it makes sense and is easily enforced.
> the straw that broke the camels back was when another dev released two apps
> with the same name as my apps whilst they were in the Top 5… Apple did
> nothing about it.
If someone can compete with your product with little effort, then how good was
your product in the first place? If their product is not as good and yours
already sits front and center in the top 5, who cares if carbon copies exist?
If theirs is better, then be glad you made it to the top 5 first.
~~~
wccrawford
The problem isn't that he can't compete, it's that his potential customers
can't tell which one he is! They hear from their friends that 'xyz app' is
awesome, they search the market and find 2 of them... And 50% download the
wrong one!
Of course, ratings and that top-5 spot should help shift that percentage in
his favor, but it's still really ugly that it's even possible for people to do
that.
~~~
mootymoots
Correct. It's not the quality of the competing app, or it's closeness to my
functionality. It's the consumer confusion, and the blatant piggy backing off
of others success which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm more surprised
Apple doesn't deal with it.
------
mootymoots
Here's a good one I was told about a Twitter client I developed: "The links in
the tweets just open up a webview when you press them..." - It was rejected on
this basis, and this was the appeal board telling me this... :(
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What do you prefer when signing up for a new service? - vishalzone2002
I found that most people tend to use facebook more instead of email for signing up. (Not sure if they realize that it still gives out their email anyway).
I am curious what do you feel the most comfortable with when signing up for a new service:
- Facebook
- Twitter
- G+
- Email
- Other ( Please specify)
======
Broken_Hippo
Most definitely prefer email. Every great once in a while I'll switch to a
facebook login - generally a combination of ease of use and a moderate-to-
heavy use of the service.
In fact, I'll usually pass if I am not offered the email option along with the
others.
------
darkstar999
Email
I pretty much won't do it on Facebook, especially if the permissions are
looking for anything besides my basic info.
I use a throwaway email address if the service is potentially sketchy in any
way.
------
ASquare
Depends on the service.
Sometimes when I just want to try it out or am curious, if they have email,
then I use a dummy email account Ive set up for this purpose.
Other times, Twitter
------
vs2370
Twitter or FB
------
quantisan
Email
------
prostoalex
G+
------
elyrly
email
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Swedens largest retailer of IT-hardware store passwords in plain-text. - tmikaeld
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweclockers.com%2Fforum%2F71-butiker-och-tillverkare%2F472595-dustin-dustin-home%2Findex138.html%23post14113650
======
ZetaTwo
At least they manage to save their face a little by admitting that this is bad
and that they are working on a replacement unlike many other companies in
situations like this. Take the Tesco incident for example:
[http://www.troyhunt.com/2012/11/5-essential-tips-for-
custome...](http://www.troyhunt.com/2012/11/5-essential-tips-for-customer-
care.html)
~~~
tmikaeld
There seems to be quite many, someone said they use Visma's software. It would
be interesting to know what system they are moving to.
Thanks for the link, this was pure gold:
[http://lh3.ggpht.com/\--fOrKRzkY-c/UBY2_-BpSyI/AAAAAAAADyc/96...](http://lh3.ggpht.com/--fOrKRzkY-c/UBY2_-BpSyI/AAAAAAAADyc/96aqWwgZ5kE/SNAGHTML3928683.png)
~~~
dagw
Visma's software is generally bad in ways that would have been truly
embarrassing 10 years ago. I guess they're simply so entrenched by now that
they've officially stopped giving a fuck.
~~~
tmikaeld
True, and moving to a new platform would probably take a VERY long time and be
a huge undertaking - Visma is well known for their lock-ins of customers data.
I'd believe Microsoft Dynamics is their new platform, as it would scale
properly and support global distribution and stock systems management.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Preventing weak passwords by reading your mind - Ivyless
https://telepathwords.research.microsoft.com/
======
vanni
=Previous discussion=
Telepathwords: A New Password Strength Estimator (schneier.com) - Dec 6, 2013
- 81 points - 64 comments
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6860987](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6860987)
------
scotu
should I type my passwords in there? ._.,
~~~
Cthulhu_
Only if it's "password", "secret", "god", "scotu" or "12345"
~~~
pubby
What's scotu?
------
rottyguy
the problem is not coming up with hard passwords. the problem is trying to
remember all of them across the litany of places that require them (many with
varying policies for creating "safe" passwords). if we can solve the
"remembering" part, users wouldn't even need to be asked to create a pw (it
would simply be assigned)
~~~
robinhoode
I find it hard to believe that it's suggested people remember passwords. I
would suspect that anyone who knows anything about security would be using
something like LastPass to generate and store passwords.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Unbundling of Social Networks - srikar
http://www.skepticgeek.com/socialweb/the-unbundling-of-social-networks/
======
EGreg
Actually the core will unbundle as soon as there is a platform that can
decentralize the actual social networking. The accounts, connections,
authentication, subscriptions and notifications, realtime group experience
(like chat) etc etc.
Right now to see what your friends have posted on fb you have to be on fb and
be in their friends' list. Which leads to a snowball network effect. Imagine
if you had to do the same in order to receive your friend's email from down
the hall!
Right now people in an african village have to be connected to the internet
using baloons or drones in order to communicate WITH EACH OTHER and share
videos and photos taken on their phone. Why does their signal have to travel
halfway around the world to a fb datacwnter just so they can plan what's for
dinner?
This centralization is actually perverse and a SYMPTOM of the lack of standard
for decentralized social networking, and open social network implementations.
Diaspora was one attempt, but what else is out there?
~~~
dkyc
I think the limitation is more technical than you make it seem. Why is there
no network-level decentralization for social networks? Because P2P connections
have a habit of being unstable, unreliable and hard to initiate. What if your
desired peer is offline at the moment? Would be very convenient to store the
information somewhere. A server in the middle _just works_. The primary reason
not to use a server is because there is an inherent disadvantage/distrust in a
central authority (à la Bitcoin). Apparently for social networks this is not
an issue for 99.9% of people.
~~~
EGreg
But why do we HAVE to use the servers at facebook as the server in the middle
"pubsubhubbub" as a protocol would let you choose your "hub"
in general, any publisher of information could designate one or more computers
to store the data redundantly, and even encrypt it so that only my friends
with the key can decrypt it.
that's how the web works btw
------
pelario
> The app ecosystem is like nature’s ecosystem – where innumerable species
> evolve and thrive, and that is the best that could happen for users. We need
> a rich ecosystem comprising of multiple species – read startups – that can
> lead to further evolution – read innovation – than just a few predatory
> monsters.
I wonder how much of wishful thinkin is in the article. The claimed fact that
there is no dominant actor yet does not grant that this not going to happend,
like "In the desktop world".
I remember reading the same kind of idealistic descriptions about the internet
about 15 years ago, and now it is dominated by the giants.
~~~
evgen
Agreed, completely delusional wishful thinking. There is some innovation and
"unbundling" at the edges, and then once those edges become reasonably well
defined and there is a verifiable market there the majors will swoop in, build
a couple of clones or additions to their platforms and hoover up a couple of
the larger apps. And the cycle will continue. Every once in a while one of
these major players at the edge will grow big at a fast enough rate that it
will achieve orbital velocity and become a major in its own right by owning
the new hotness for long enough to become a utility (cf. Netscape, Yahoo,
Google, Facebook, etc.) but the idea that this there is any sort of major
change in progress seems somewhat detached from the facts on the ground.
------
golemotron
It's never been clear what FB will do with the integration of messenger in the
browser. So much for unbundling that one.
~~~
mvp
I think messenger works very well on mobile, which somehow I see most people
use for actual messaging.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Help ACLU tell FCC to preserve Net Neutrality - Fjolsvith
https://www.aclu.org/secure/FCC_preserve_net_neutrality?ms=oth_acluaction_netneutrality_140124_taf
======
Fjolsvith
This should be at the number 1 spot on HN.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Going up? Space elevator could zoom astronauts into Earth's stratosphere - CarolineW
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/17/space-elevator-thothx-tower
======
CarolineW
This is from 2015, but I was wondering if there's been any news about it -
I've not been able to find any.
Here is the Wikipedia page:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThothX_Tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThothX_Tower)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
When it comes to startups, products and services don't mix - icey
http://giffconstable.com/2010/01/when-it-comes-to-startups-products-and-services-dont-mix/
======
jacquesm
I'm a 'bit' investor (angel round) in a small startup that has been doing
both, a product and a service.
There is a really nice synergy between the two happening there. The product
functions as the ice breaker, the services come after.
It saves them a ton on marketing costs for their services division, basically
the customers come to them, find out what a nice little company it is and then
decide to trade 'up'.
\--
edit: In general I think this is bad advice, small startups that do only 'one
thing' and are not willing to move where the money is tend to die out rather
quickly.
It often doesn't really matter what brings in the $ to stay afloat, as long as
you are clear about where you want to be.
If consulting or fixed price jobs are what keeps you in business long enough
to get a solid product or if you use a product as the door opener to sell more
services, as long as you don't let the interests in the one conflict with the
other you should be in good shape.
Much better shape than those that only have a product or only do contract
work. Ideally you need three legs to stand on, so three products, preferably
aimed at different markets, or a services division that you can use to pick up
the slack.
Just a single product or just contracting is asking for trouble, and
contracting with only a single large customer to bring in more than 40% of
your total income stream is really playing Russian roulette.
~~~
aditya
I think you're wrong. Once you go down the path to doing consulting, you lose
the hunger to build the product business because the money keeps coming in.
pg says[1] that most product startups die when they become consulting
businesses, and I think he's right. Do you have counter-examples of how a
product startup became a consulting company and then went back to being a
product startup? Not saying it isn't do-able, just that it's much harder. I'm
in the spot now, and having an interesting time dealing with the challenges.
EDIT: By wrong, I mean, I think you're right that you shouldn't let the
consulting business interfere but in practice that is almost impossible to do.
1\. <http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfunding.html#f2n>
------
ruang
37signals is an obvious counter-example.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Indecision is sometimes the best way to decide (2014) - prostoalex
http://aeon.co/magazine/psychology/indecision-is-sometimes-the-best-way-to-decide/
======
justinator
I'm not sure if I buy that Indecision is a good strategy, but I will say that
"Doing Nothing" is a perfectly acceptable problem solving strategy
_sometimes_.
* If you can't control the situation, don't stress about trying to.
* Leverage your power when you in a position where its the most powerful, and not before.
------
nreece
If you are trying to decide between two things, a good trick is to flip a
coin. Assign one choice to heads and the other to tails. You'll find yourself
subtly "hoping" for one choice over the other. Decision made. Keep things
simple!
In the book “Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness”,
Prof. Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler talk about the science of choices and
defaults:
_The human brain is amazing, but it evolved for specific purposes, such as
avoiding predators and finding food. Those purposes do not include choosing
good credit card plans, reducing harmful pollution, avoiding fatty foods, and
planning for a decade or so from now. Fortunately, a few nudges can help a
lot._
------
xpil
Anyone for Stanisław Lem's "Tales of Pirx the Pilot"? One of the stories there
("The Inquest") shows how human imperfection (resulting in indecision in the
critical moment) saved a spaceship. Indeed, indecision sometimes IS the best
strategy.
------
ljw1001
Title should be "Indecision might be the best way to decide"
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Feastflow v2 – Handcrafted leads for freelance designers and developers - RepressedEmu
https://www.feastflow.com
======
RepressedEmu
Hey guys! So my lead gen service Feastflow has been running for about 3 months
now and since launching we've been getting great feedback from the community
that they wanted us to expand our categories. So with our v2 we have gone from
just Fullstack freelance leads to support Frontend and Designers leads as
well. If you are a freelance developer or designer and want to get 5-10 remote
projects with a $5k+ budget feel free to try us out!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Baseimage-docker, fat containers and “treating containers as VMs” - kesor
https://blog.phusion.nl/2015/01/20/baseimage-docker-fat-containers-treating-containers-vms/
======
kesor
Apparently Docker are aware of this problem, but putting a huge Python init
process in there is just evil.
[https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/11529](https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/11529)
And the problem appears in such edge cases that it is doubtfully worthy of so
much attention. When a pid-1 process spawns daemons, that in turn leave
orphaned zombies - this pid-1 will get assigned with them. (described in 'man
7 pid_namespaces')
Supposedly this non-init pid1 is not reaping orphaned zombies, which might get
the namespace to pid_max (33k default) and run out of pids to use.
------
kesor
What I find most appaling about this, is that Phusion invented their own
problem (PID1 reaping) that doesn't even exist in reality - and they keep
banging that drum to create as much FUD as possible around something that is
completely wrong and against the actual intent of Docker (the company, the
community, the tool, the best practice, the ecosystem).
~~~
andyshinn
I've been doing stuff with Docker for a while and I have run in to issues here
and there, but never the PID reaping problem. In fact, I actually strive now
to make the application PID 1 and only run 1 process. This is specifically so
that the container will exit and the host or other scheduling logic can deal
with the event.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Codelines – Interactive Coding Walkthroughs in Your IDE - mlejva
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Codelines.codelines
======
mlejva
My friend and I have been working on a code editor plugin that let you create
and read interactive coding tutorials/walkthroughs in your IDE.
We believe the way we share programming knowledge on the Internet is hugely
ignored. But it's a real problem that developers face every day. How many
times have you seen a snippet of code that could solve your problem but the
API was now deprecated, or just simple things like code highlighting and being
able to see a bigger code context.
Walkthroughs created with our plugin are actually full projects combined with
text so it gives you a lot of benefits. That way you can execute the code and
at the same time be able to read the "story" behind the code.
We support only VSCode for now. We are really interested in what people on HN
think about this. Please, feel free to ask any questions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Kubernetes Dashboard on Google Cloud and its sooo easy to setup - rahulwagh17
https://youtu.be/ejwiMFJETdQ
======
colesantiago
Costs?
~~~
rahulwagh17
It depends on the traffic you are receiving but with my experience it pretty
cheap to run less than .3 cents/day
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
In China, a Three-Digit Score Could Dictate Your Place in Society - denzil_correa
https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-social-credit/
======
QAPereo
Do they have credit reporting agencies in China as well? /s
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Buttery, a DSL/runtime for defining HTTP APIs - evinism
https://github.com/evinism/buttery
======
smt88
I'm a heavy user of Open API Spec. I do have issues with that project, so I'm
certainly hoping something better will replace it, but that said:
What motivated you to build this instead of just using OAS?
Why did you create a DSL when you could've used, say, TypeScript? Using an
existing language allows you to rely on widespread, well-understood, efficient
tooling, so a DSL is sometimes an extreme choice that implies a forceful
rejection of existing languages.
~~~
evinism
I'm not sure any answer other than "I felt like it was a good choice" is gonna
be 100% accurate, but a few things, some of which are speculative, some of
which are reactionary.
(I'm sadly not very familiar with OAS, so it's very possible that OAS supports
many of the things I'm going for!)
\- This takes very heavily after protos, which use a DSL.
\- This rejects protos because of a few reasons, not the least of which is
that every field in proto3 is optional. While it makes sense for google, I
don't think it makes sense for everybody.
\- gRPC is non-http, and I was unhappy with gRPC-web
\- I wanted it to be a terse specification, such that just glancing over the
definition file gives you a sense of what the API consists of.
\- I wanted a solution that handled websockets/server push as a first-class
citizen, and not as a secondary add-on
\- I wanted to provide library-level validation of request / response shape.
\- I wanted to extend it beyond typescript, notably into python (and hopefully
beyond)
\- I like the idea of generic structs and oneofs (which I'm going to implement
in some future version). I think if we had an easy way to define generics in
cross-language APIs, we'd probably use it a fair amount.
\- I like the idea of having an extensible language, e.g. be able to provide a
JSONLogic type. Imagine a field `priceCalculation: JsonLogic<string, number>`.
That'd be pretty cool!
~~~
smt88
Let me preface this by saying that I use OAS because it is the most widely-
supported HTTP API spec. I don't love it, but as of version 3, it handles all
of my use cases and has good tooling support. This prevents me from having to
edit the spec as raw text -- I can typically get by using a GUI (recently been
happy with Apicurio Studio).
That said, I do wish there were a better format for it than YAML/JSON, and I
think some of their design decisions were strange.
Note that a lot of OAS's strengths and weaknesses were inherited from its
parent project, JSON Schema, which is also widely supported.
> _I wanted it to be a terse specification, such that just glancing over the
> definition file gives you a sense of what the API consists of._
OAS specs in YAML (as opposed to JSON) are pretty terse and easy to scan,
especially if the spec is kept fairly DRY by defining/refusing object schemas.
> _I wanted a solution that handled websockets /server push as a first-class
> citizen, and not as a secondary add-on_
OAS fails this one.[1]
> _I wanted to provide library-level validation of request / response shape._
This is something all the major formats (JSON Schema/OAS, RAML, Blueprint,
etc.) do. It's probably the first thing people want to do with an API spec.
OAS has great support for validation in most languages, although
implementation of the spec can be spottier with less-popular stacks like PHP.
> _I wanted to extend it beyond typescript, notably into python (and hopefully
> beyond)_
One of my projects uses Spot[1] to define its API. Spot has CLI tools that
translate it into a plain OAS file (.yaml format), and then there are more CLI
tools that generate code (models, validators, controllers, and even servers)
from that spec file.
If you don't mind a polyglot toolchain -- and I think most of us have one at
this point -- then the Spot => OAS => Python process works fine and is easy to
set up. You don't even need to start with Spot, of course.
> _I like the idea of generic structs and oneofs (which I 'm going to
> implement in some future version). I think if we had an easy way to define
> generics in cross-language APIs, we'd probably use it a fair amount._
I agree that this is super important. OAS supports it, although it can be hard
to read a lot of branches inheritance trees in that particular format.
You can split your definitions into separate files to make it easier (in both
Spot and in plain OAS itself).
> _I like the idea of having an extensible language, e.g. be able to provide a
> JSONLogic type. Imagine a field `priceCalculation: JsonLogic <string,
> number>`. That'd be pretty cool!_
This makes sense, but at the end of the day, "JsonLogic<string, number>" is
just a text format. With OAS, you can define a regex to validate inputs and
outputs, which has been "good enough" in my experience, but definitely falls
short of what you want.
What about GraphQL? That seems to have some of the features you're interested
in, although the GraphQL paradigm is so different from HTTP (and has some
tradeoffs) that I'd understand not even considering it.
1\. [https://github.com/OAI/OpenAPI-
Specification/issues/523](https://github.com/OAI/OpenAPI-
Specification/issues/523)
~~~
evinism
Yeah, GraphQL certainly has many of the features that I was looking at here
too, and I figure that it's the rough direction in which webdev seems to be
going.
I just... like RPCs.
There's also a vague sense of "buttery should work well for multiple services
in a way that other methods might struggle to do so." The fact that RPCs are
grouped into services means that a load balancer can shift RPCs to different
backends based on which buttery service they're talking to. I'm not sure how
that actually compares against common solutions, but it IS interesting :)
Thanks for taking the time to think about all these things! It's very helpful
for me.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do I get customers/users? - Apane
I have a marketplace company, (here’s a listing - https://tinyurl.com/j7atzhb) that connects people that are looking to dine-out at great restaurants for great value, by allowing them to book value packages in advanced.<p>We have 10 live listings with value packages up to 35% off, how do we market them to get bookings?<p>The owners of the restaurants want to see results, and I'm looking for actionable tactics on how to get users/people booking these packages.
======
tmaly
I would help you as a different marketing channel in exchange for some
feedback when I launch version 2 of my food site.
~~~
Apane
Definitely interested, pls send more info to [email protected]
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What happens to failed founders? - tomp
What happens, longer-term, to the founders that fail? There's many forms of failure, according to PG [1] it's simply a matter of "keep going, don't get demoralized", but from my limited perspective (I've never started a startup) it's more complicated than that, you can also literally run out of money (either personally, or as a company not getting more investment), <i>or</i> you can rationally decide to stop because the value proposition just isn't there in the market (noone needs it, or they need it but aren't willing to pay enough for it to sustain it). So, my conclusion is that startups sometimes fail for "good" reasons.<p>What happens to founders afterwards? Do they start another startup? Do they continue in a "job" (career)? Do they start from scratch or move immediately into a management position? Are investors willing to invest into failed founders? Are companies willing to hire them? Do they value experience (similarly to an MBA, or similarly to an employee, or not at all)? Maybe they get hired by VCs to either mentor other startups, or help decide if they're worth investing in?<p>The opportunity cost of starting a startup instead of continuing in your career can be significant (5+ years "lost"). I imagine Y Combinator and other accelerators/VCs have some relevant experience with their alumni to answer this question. Is there any data available, an article or similar?<p>[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html
======
muzani
Hi, "failed" founder here. I didn't make a million dollars but basically got
acquired for about 3 years of not taking a salary.
One thing many people forget about startups is that you're building assets,
not revenue. The company, the code, the whole customer acquisition process,
customer loyalty... all that is worth something to someone and can be sold at
a price. We were acquired by a startup that just wanted to grow faster. It was
another sales channel for them and far cheaper/faster than putting marketing
dollars.
So there's rarely ever truly a failure. Just waiting for the right buyer if
you've built something decent. This is usually what they mean by "don't die".
I found that it's easier to sell a company than get investors, though.
After that,
1\. A VC who didn't invest gave me several fun jobs teaching programming (his
core background was education). I've been doing it on and off for 3 years now,
training for programming certifications, and it's been a good portion of my
income and connections.
2\. Joined a couple of startups as a CTO, all fellow founders who I met in
accelerators. They didn't go well and maybe I was not competent enough for
them. Maybe they just had limited resources.
3\. Joined a Big Corp. Friends thought it was not part of my personality to do
so. But really, it was trying something I hadn't done, and proving to a
relative that I could. It seemed like a step down, so I stopped after half a
year.
4\. I regularly get and turn down CTO offers, sometimes two a month. Many were
more established and well funded, but I'm not willing to commit to them.
5\. I went back to freelancing. I make about 5x more than I did before my
startup. I specialize in MVPs, so my startup experience is essential to
current income.
But notably, I didn't have a lot of options when starting a startup. Had I
gone the non-startup route, I'd be working for a company in some large team,
making $1000/month in a developing country.
------
lm28469
> "keep going, don't get demoralized"
You can keep going and never make it. Statistically speaking you're more
likely to not make it. This isn't much more than the typical hustler
propaganda we see all the time in tech. "If you didn't make it you didn't try
hard enough"
> What happens to founders afterwards?
Founders are people, people chose different paths. Depends if you managed to
save a big chunk of money, have the will to start again, have kids, location,
visas, etc ... I don't think there is a stereotypical path.
> The opportunity cost of starting a startup instead of continuing in your
> career can be significant (5+ years "lost").
If you create a company that survives for 5 years you have to fuck up really
bad to lose everything. Unless you go for one of these business models relying
purely on investors cash, in which case you're doomed from the get go 99% of
the time.
~~~
muzani
Startups are usually a gamble at good odds. "Keep going" means you're just
rolling the dice at those odds again. But those who learn something improve
their odds for next time. People rarely do an "all or nothing" bet, so they
can often try again. And often investors prefer someone who has tried and
failed rather than someone whose trying the first time.
~~~
lm28469
> Startups are usually a gamble at good odds
Good odds for who ? The investors putting money in 100s of startups and making
10.000% ROI once in a while ? Sure
What about the founders / early employees who fail 90% of the time after
putting in countless hours of overtime ?
When the dice you play with is a 1d20000 and you need <= 2 to succeed you have
to be real tough, have a strong support network and know what you're getting
into. I guess it's part of the game but we should stop romanticising the
startup life, it's far from being a matter of "keep trying".
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/startupcompass-
public/StartupGenome...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/startupcompass-
public/StartupGenomeReport2_Why_Startups_Fail_v2.pdf)
~~~
muzani
It's also not a fail/succeed binary. Failures bring in experience and skills.
Also, you have to compare with the alternative. Someone who applies to Google
also has a high chance of failure - it's still a 3 month investment in
studying for interviews, with about a 5% chance of getting in.
Someone can apply to work with a moderate sized company at much higher odds
and lower pay, but there's a good chance the project may fail and they get
fired.
In this case you still get paid even if you get fired. With startups, failure
means you lose money and time, but the process rapidly levels up your value as
an individual. You build more elite connections, develop a lot of soft skills.
Spending 100 hours a week programming something has a side effect of improving
your programming skill much faster than someone who put in 40 hours.
If you studied months for an interview at Google and failed, your best next
move would be to apply at the next company at a slightly higher rate of
success. You can also choose to settle for something easy, with no interview
process, but then you lose your investment. This is the same logic as "keep
trying" at a startup. When you fail with one idea, you get feedback for what
other ideas would work better.
I personally chose the startup path because the alternate path is spending 13
years trying to get a $25,000 job. Someone getting offers for $200,000 jobs
would have a very different decision matrix.
~~~
inertiatic
Smart people who put in months of studying don't have a 5% chance of making it
into a large company after those few months.
Google might have a 5% hire rate but it's not 5% of qualified and heavily
prepared people. And you can just multiply your chances by applying to more
companies.
With skill and determination you will make it.
With skill and determination, starting a startup you're just buying a ticket
to potentially making it.
As you said, it only makes sense if your alternative doesn't offer you enough
money to live comfortably and save as well, or you are, well, atypically non-
risk-averse.
------
clusmore
I think we need to stop using the word fail for things like this---expressions
like "fail fast" and "learning from failure" and "embrace failure" often give
people the wrong impression. Instead I prefer to re-calibrate success. If you
are doing a startup, or anything else (borrowing Ries' definition here) under
extreme uncertainty, your goal can't possibly be to succeed. This could very
well be an impossible goal, and you could fail for reasons entirely outside
your control and outside your visibility.
Instead, you should identify the unknowns where possible (your hypotheses) and
set your goal as de-risking these unknowns. For example, your startup idea
might be "Uber Eats for umbrellas" where you deliver umbrellas to people at
the push of a button. Can you build a successful company around this? Who
knows. I certainly wouldn't measure myself on my ability to build a successful
company on this. But I might measure myself on my ability to determine whether
there is a market for it. I might be successful in determining there isn't a
market for it and then decide not to continue any further, and I wouldn't call
myself a failure for it. And even if there is a market, then there's a
question of whether the economics make sense. Again, your goal now is to
determine the answer to this question regardless of the yes/no outcome.
------
dmitripopov
Failure is a part of the game. If you get demoralized this game is not for
you. Simple as that. It's OK to feel bad for a while, however.
Typically failed founders found something new. Targeted, simple, niche. Learn
from your failure.
~~~
relaunched
Getting demoralized is typical; real founders are the ones who get back up and
come looking for more.
------
deanalevitt
As I announced the failure and closure of my previous startup, I was invited
to be CEO of three other startups looking for direction.
I had a COO offer available too as well as a couple of less appealing job
offers.
I watched some job boards just out of interest and saw a number of roles
either as CMO, product manager or director that I would have been a good fit
for.
As it stands, I ended up co-founding a new company with an old partner.
No one seemed to think that failure under my belt was a black mark.
------
rafiki6
I think it really depends on what stage you "fail" and what causes the
failure. In my own experience, I was really young and tried something for
about 6 months. It didn't pan out because those who I was working with weren't
committed to it. We just went our separate ways after and I ended up working
as as a senior dev at a bunch of places. I'd love to see data about this, as
we always end up seeing only the survivors and their success stories.
------
raleigh_user
I’ve been messing around with an idea of starting something like
failedfounders.com. Basically an online repo of stories, learnings and the
like. It’s too taboo to talk about and I wish that’d change. 99.99% (made up,
don’t quote me) of people don’t hit it big on the first thing they do. Or
second. Some people just start earlier. Aka build programs and sell them in HS
vs at 28. If you find forward thinking execs they usually will love talking to
you and consider hiring you. I’ve found most everyone in TA/Recruiting to be
unable to process how you could have skills across multiple disciplines and
this doesn’t score well on their interview sheet. Relationships end up helping
a ton here.
~~~
muzani
I think there's a good demand for this. You should do it.
------
itronitron
> The opportunity cost of starting a startup instead of continuing in your
> career can be significant (5+ years "lost")
Every year of your career, and life, is "lost" ... you can't save those years
and you can't get them back.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Common weed killer linked to bee deaths - saalweachter
https://phys.org/news/2018-09-common-weed-killer-linked-bee.html
======
xchip
MONSANTO's glyphosate seems to be the culprit, and it seems they knew that and
that it causes cancer([https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/business/monsanto-
roundup...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/business/monsanto-roundup-
cancer-trial.html))
~~~
muthdra
How to disrupt chemical weed killers? I don't know much about agritech.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The future of life insurance may depend on your online presence - kawera
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18211890/social-media-life-insurance-new-york-algorithms-big-data-discrimination-online-records
======
wahern
> Algorithms speed up this process — though there aren’t many cases where a
> decision is entirely automated — and can make it more precise. Sometimes,
> the algorithm will greenlight a person so they don’t have to go through the
> invasive medical tests.
That sounds like a stupid idea except for very short-term, high-premium
policies. How many people immediately post to Facebook a cancer diagnosis?
Unless it's close to 100% then an insurer would be a fool to rely on it for
anything other than the most niche products.
> The convenience of immediately receiving a policy is appealing to those who
> don’t want to wait weeks for a doctor’s appointment, and that can lead to
> more life insurance policies being purchased.
When I was originally looking at term life insurance, the policy offered by my
employer required me to go to the doctor's office for a physical. I elected
the insurance but never bothered getting the physical so it never took effect.
A couple years later when I got serious about term life insurance and looked
into it more seriously, I discovered two things: 1) an individual policy is a
much better deal long term, and 2) many (most? all?) insurers for individual
policies send a phlebotomist to you--the one sent to me arrived with a needle
and scale and left so quickly I almost felt jilted.
> And while life insurance sales have traditionally been face-to-face
> interactions with agents, that mode is quickly falling out of favor, meaning
> that algorithmic processes are better for online sales.
That's another thing I learned: never buy any kind of insurance from a
salesperson. State Farm? Extremely overpriced because they spend a ton of
money on advertising and especially their enormous sales network. How many
local sales offices have you seen for Principal or Mutual of Omaha? Agents
selling their policies exist all over but the sales model for these insurers
is different which ultimately results in lower premiums.
And you don't need AI to disintermediate the sales networks. I got my policy
from policygenius.com. There are usually local sales agents who take a cut of
the premium. I think it's an artifact of the state regulatory structures.
Policy Genius and some local agent get a couple dollars every month from my
premium, even though the only thing local agent did was take my paperwork. But
that's still just a fraction of the overhead involved for insurers with more
aggressive marketing and sales models.
Finally, get term life and term disability insurance as young as you can. The
moment you feel you need it (e.g. new parent) do not hesitate. Disability
insurance is arguably more important than life simply because medicine is so
advanced these days you're unlikely to die from accidents or disease until
you're older, but you'll still likely be disabled. I'm still procrastinating
on the disability, though....
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How the Index Card Cataloged the World - Hooke
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/how-the-index-card-catalogued-the-world/547271/?single_page=true
======
mfichman
What's fascinating to me is that index cards are a kind of spiritual
predecessor to modern database systems and computers - perhaps even more
closely related than counting devices like the abacus. Richard Feynman touches
on this in one of his lectures [1] that's been linked many times on HN.
The theory of information and computing seems pretty fundamental, and not
necessarily tied to what we typically think of as a computer, with CPUs, RAM,
SSDs, etc. In a way, a card catalog full of index cards and run by a bunch of
people is a computer too. Maybe this isn't an incredible revelation, but it's
still interesting to think about.
[1]
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EKWGGDXe5MA](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EKWGGDXe5MA)
------
tumba
For anyone interested in index card systems, the idiosyncratic method of
Niklas Luhmann [0] is a fascinating example. Many additional interesting
opinions on notetaking and modern database translations of classic note taking
ideas maybe found on the website of the translator, Manfred Kuehn [1].
Another interesting and radically less complex example that I have personally
found useful is the Pile of Index Cards system. [2]
[0] http://luhmann.surge.sh/communicating-with-slip-boxes
[1] http://takingnotenow.blogspot.com/2007/12/luhmanns-zettelkasten.html
[2] http://pileofindexcards.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
------
markvdb
The most impressive use of the index card is probably the Mundaneum:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundaneum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundaneum)
.
------
sn41
I am a fan of index cards, and only recently was thinking of buying a deck to
replace my current GTD organizer.
I have heard that Vladimir Nabokov used to write his works on index cards. The
Wikipedia article on him mentions this.
~~~
Sukotto
You might like the "Hipster PDA" then:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_PDA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_PDA)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Signed HTTP Exchanges (SXG) - rwoll
https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/11/signed-exchanges
======
rwoll
While reading through
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23729160](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23729160),
discussions around Signed Exchanges came up. This is a really neat idea
(that’s been around for a while); however, a lot of it depends on the user
experience in the browser. Users cannot be expected to know the technical
details to get (or understand) the benefits—and we must be wary of some major
drawbacks like the cache site seeing the traffic instead the origin.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How my comment on TechCrunch got me a Facebook Cease and Desist - racerrick
http://rickstratton.com/detail.php?c=2787453&t=my-comment-on-techcrunch-got-me-a-facebook-cease-and-desist
======
gojomo
_How do I prove that I have no control over this thing?_
You don't have to prove anything. You've given them the courtesy of letting
them know they have the wrong person, that's it. You can't 'cease' or 'desist'
from something you're not doing, any more than you are already not doing it.
If they actually sue you after you've let them know you're not the right
person, then you can invest more effort into this... and at that point,
they'll be the reckless ones for filing a lawsuit on no evidence.
In the meantime, the most you should do -- milk it for some hits via a blog
post -- is all you need to do. You've done it.
Consult with lawyers (off the payment clock, free initial consultations) if
you'd like to, but there's no need given that Perkins Coie has just sent you a
bit of lawyerly puffery in error.
------
nikcub
There is no way they can get away with bullying you. Contact the EFF:
<https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance>
Very good chance they will help you with this.
------
daemon13
I your place I would avoid going the legal route since this is not your
strength.
1\. Pay close attention to comments from daegloe
> EDIT: After reading many of the frothy comments on this page, I just wanted
> to add that it's generally best to avoid threatening a lawsuit, countersuit
> or any kind of legal claim in your response. These giant law firms love to
> call people on their bluffs, because they bill by the hour. Avoid boxing
> yourself in.
> Best strategy is to avoid litigation at all costs. Because, well, it costs
> lots of money whether you win or lose. And if you win, collecting is a bitch
> in of itself.
2\. Do you have deadline in the cease and desist letter? If yes, what's the
deadline?
3\. Since this is a typical "David vs Goliath" and media loves these types of
stories, I would try defeat FB with its own baby - social media.
Specifically, I would
3.1. contact 10-15 major tech blogs, including through Twitter
3.2. contact 5 major newspapers/their journalists
3.3. post your story on FB Twitter, FB Wall, Mark Zuckenbergs Wall
4\. I am sure that this had adverse impact on your health and well being. So I
would probably add sharing those to your story.
Play to your strengths and keep us posted.
~~~
racerrick
Good advice.
~~~
daemon13
Racerrick, there is post about your adventure on TC.
Did you follow my advice, or they just spotted your story pre-emptively?
------
epikur
It is my extremely unqualified opinion that perhaps you should seek the advice
of a legal professional, before, um, doing anything else.
~~~
racerrick
Agreed. Thank you. However spending money on a lawyer for this is painful.
~~~
daegloe
One option is to ask a lawyer to draft a response in your name in which you
clearly state that you have no connection to the offending service. You would
then send that response on your personal letterhead. If FB's lawyers continue
to pursue their claims, your lawyer would likely take the reins and
communicate directly with the opposition on your behalf.
Another option is to remain silent and wait for a follow up from FB's
attorneys before pursuing the letter strategy.
Bottom line is: consult a trained professional (lawyer). As someone who has
been down a similar road, I can tell you firsthand that it may be painful but
it's necessary. Remember, FB's legal budget is far larger than yours. You want
to play the poor defenseless Rick card as long as you can before introducing
your attorney and any legal letterhead.
Good luck!
EDIT: After reading many of the frothy comments on this page, I just wanted to
add that it's generally best to avoid threatening a lawsuit, countersuit or
any kind of legal claim in your response. These giant law firms love to call
people on their bluffs, because they bill by the hour. Avoid boxing yourself
in.
~~~
vellum
Good idea. Before you get him to draft the letter though, you should try to
negotiate a flat fee for the service. You don't want some guy that bills
$x00/hr spending a few days on the letter.
~~~
daegloe
The letter should be an hour discussion plus an hour of drafting, at the most.
@vellum is right, always negotiate fees and estimated level of effort up
front. In these types of cases it's generally best to deal with each task
discretely until, in a worst case, you must consider litigation. This helps
avoid locking yourself into a significant retainer when a single letter might
do the trick.
------
ajays
To those offering advice about getting a lawyer: do you _know_ how much a
lawyer costs? A decent lawyer will charge you upwards of $300/hour. For just
replying to this letter it'll run you about $100. And then if that other
lawyer responds, the cycle will continue. Soon you're talking real money here,
for _something he did not do!_
~~~
theycallmemorty
It sucks, but it will cost even more if the situation is not handled correctly
and ends up in front of a judge.
~~~
fleitz
The correct way to handle it is to get it front of a Judge ASAP. Barratry
comes to mind. When they can't provide logs of this application accessing
their servers from an IP he owns the case is done and you pick up a little
pocket money.
------
fleitz
Oh noes, you violated their TOS. C&Ds are meaningless I wouldn't even bother
responding. Not legal advice.
~~~
topbanana
Good advice - don't get drawn in. You have nothing to answer for.
~~~
fleitz
It's not advice :)
------
zrgiu_
So, guilty until proven innocent, is this how things work now ?
What if I go now on facebook, create an account, use the name Rick Stratton
and start posting random, "incriminating" stuff all over the internet, what
then ?
~~~
coopdog
Innocent until proven guilty is only for criminal court, civil law is done on
the balance of probabilities Les disclaimer: IANALTINLA
~~~
RyanMcGreal
> TINLA
I had to look this one up. This Is Not Legal Advice.
~~~
nasmorn
Hey DDVTWAU (dont down vote this was actually useful) You need to allow people
with interest outside HN some time to catch up on the hip new acronyms
------
dsrguru
This might not be the best legal advice, but I personally would let it play
out as much as possible before hiring a lawyer. It is my understanding that a
preponderance of evidence burden (over 50% certainty) in practice really means
they have to find at least one potential problem with your defense. Since your
blog post provides an explanation that is 100% rational, I'm fairly certain
that means they have no case against you. It seems ridiculous to have to pay
for a lawyer when you're falsely accused of a crime that you weren't even at
the scene for, so to speak.
On the other hand, if this is putting too much stress on you, it might be the
right call from a health perspective to hire a lawyer. Just my two cents of
non-legal tender.
------
Natsu
My guess (and it's only a guess) would be that they've been tasked with
shutting that site down but they have no idea who to lean on to accomplish
that. If that hypothesis is true, logic won't work on them, they'll just keep
leaning on you because they have no better options.
So I would spend a few hundred dollars or whatever having your lawyer draft
them a letter or call them on the phone or whatever to explain that this isn't
going to buy them anything legally. And even if you don't want to do that, at
least quit talking to them or writing about it lest you get yourself in
trouble by saying something innocent that sounds wrong. Lawyers are very good
at taking advantage of situations where the other side isn't represented, so
don't give them those kinds of opportunities.
In short, I'm saying to get proper legal advice. Merely being innocent isn't
always good enough. If anything, the innocent tend to get into more trouble
than they should because they tend to avoid legal advice, believing that their
innocence is enough. And even though you know you're innocent, how do you
prove that you have no control over a particular website?
------
anigbrowl
Sit tight, consider getting a lawyer, and let them make the next move. It
sounds like they have no case, but on the other hand you haven't suffered any
harm as such. IANAL, mind.
------
tlrobinson
This is just silly on the lawyers' part. What are the chances the screenshot
in the TC article just happened to include a comment, in a random article
earlier in the day, by the creator of the thing the article was describing?
Clearly you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and made an ambiguous
comment that was misinterpreted by Facebook's lawyers.
How do they expect you to prove you're _not_ involved? (hint: they don't) It
sounds like they're just trying to intimidate you.
IANAL, but I'd very clearly explain exactly what happened. If they continue to
pursue this I'd be very surprised, and will make sure I never use their law
firm...
------
13hours
Why are all the answers with legal advice filled with phrases such as "this is
not legal advice" and "I am not a lawyer"? Is it illegal for non lawyers to
give legal advice in the US?
~~~
mseebach
So it's a bit cargocultish, really. But the source, as I understand it, is
that actual lawyers who are not _your_ lawyer, has to make it clear that
they're not giving you legal advice for liability reasons. If a lawyer who is
_actually_ your lawyer gives you bad advise and you lose out because of it,
you can sue him (and his insurance). But the insurance only covers actual
clients, not strangers on the internet.
It's a little funny how this applies to legal advice, and not, say, medical
advise. People on HN will happily report on experiments with Ritalin,
mushrooms and sleeping patterns, they will encourage you to quit your job and
do a start-up - but "You should write a courteous, factual reply and talk to a
lawyer" has to come with a long disclaimer :)
------
cypherpunks01
This seems extremely strange, what does the letter actually state with regards
to them believing it's your creation?
And what activity do they want ceased, anyway? From what I briefly read, it's
just a browser extension that doesn't talk to facebook at all, but just
maintains a separate thread of conversation anchored against a facebook
comment stream. Is this not the case?
Also curious, are you planning to release the C&D or pass it to
chillingeffects.org? Thanks for the great browser extension! :p
~~~
racerrick
The letter states that I need to stop the service and shut down the site, both
of which I have no control over!
~~~
gbaygon
The site in question seems to be 404'd, so maybe you have nothing to worry
about
~~~
dannyr
Perfect timing eh?! (j/k)
------
droithomme
Sounds like they are defaming you.
If it was me, and I truly had nothing to do with this thing they are upset
about, I'd greatly welcome their lawsuit, and countersue when it comes. Little
guy versus the big mean corporation, let it play out.
Right now they are on a fishing exposition.
~~~
roshanr
The cease and desist - albeit invalid - and other legal communication was sent
privately to the OP. I don't think that counts as defamation.
------
mgl1965
Geez. I am a lawyer, and there is no need to hire or contact one. You can
either ignore the C&D letter or take the first person's advice and write them
a terse, polite letter explaining (briefly) that you have nothing whatsoever
to do with the site in question. That's it. (and send it certified with
receipt.) If they should file suit (in which case you would be served) that
asks for some monetary damages (as opposed to an injunction of some sort
against the site in question), then, and only then, do you need to consult
with an attorney. The chances of them doing that, or anything else for that
matter, is almost nil.
------
chao-
This seems like a freewheeling legal department trying to do its job, however
poorly, with less-than-optimal oversight or communication with PR. That said
I'm purely taking a stab in the dark without more details from the documents
you were sent.
I seem to recall another story crossing HN over the last year with the general
plot of "BigCorp is suing us for [ridiculously unrelated reason] when we have
nothing to do with it!" before the bad PR hits and BigCorp issues a statement
saying "Sorry. It's all cool, we didn't really mean to target you. In fact we
even like you." If I can find it I will edit my post with the details.
~~~
daegloe
I'm afraid it's generally far worse than a freewheeling legal department. But
rather a bloated law firm retained to indiscriminately "defend" the FB brand,
and whose daily mission it is to continuously justify monthly billables that
would dwarf most annual software developer salaries (and then some).
------
krrose27
Originally posted on your blog.
A sworn affidavit should work in a courtroom. (Not a lawyer!)
So at this point I would send a nicely worded certified letter telling them to
stop harassing you.
At that point they have limited options (in my opinion). 1) Sue you because
they can prove you own it in court. (At which point a simple affidavit should
end your part in said suit). 2) File a John Doe suit and actually find out who
runs it.
Best option would of course be to obtain a lawyer and head it off sooner than
later. Also once you have yourself a lawyer you won't have to deal with their
lawyers at all as they should be bared from contacting anyone but your lawyer.
------
notatoad
what does a cease and decist letter actually mean? it's not coming from a
court, how does it carry any weight at all?
~~~
fleitz
It doesn't mean anything, it's just a scary sounding letter.
Lawyers are skilled negotiators, part of negotiation is making it seem like
they have a case especially when they don't. If Facebook had a case he'd be
served and/or the police would be at his door.
A TOS violation? What are they doing to do? Turn off his Facebook account?
------
OoTheNigerian
The only question that come to mind is this. How did they know your address?
~~~
chrischen
Well they are Facebook... And he is on Facebook...
~~~
floydprice
hang on! are you suggesting that FaceBook employees have access to a users
data even if his privacy settings prohibit it?
~~~
chrischen
Maybe one of those facebook lawyers friended him.
------
wiceo
More unqualified, unsolicited advice ... I'd let them pester you long enough
to accumulate enough evidence for a harassment counter suit.
------
rangibaby
Isn't the onus on them to prove that he is guilty? IANAL but it sounds like
there isn't a thing he can do.
~~~
mbenjaminsmith
In court yeah. A judge or jury thinking you sound guilty is one thing, a
lawyer saying it means absolutely nothing.
Excuse the language but I would tell these people to go fuck themselves.
Unless there's a lot of missing info here, I can't imagine a single judge that
would allow that to go to trial.
Unfortunately (for his wallet) he probably should get a lawyer. Their actions
might be idiotic but I would suspect they're very good at getting their way.
[Edit] What I mean is they don't seem to have a case _unless_ he slips up
somehow . That's why he should get a lawyer.
~~~
tesseractive
Seeking the advice of an attorney is never a bad idea.
But as far as telling them to take a flying leap, even though he is well
within his rights to do so, it may cost him considerably less time and money
to try to find someone to talk to on their end who is willing to listen to
reason.
Someone with a lot of lawyers and deep pockets could easily bankrupt a private
individual over something like this. If it were me, I would consult a lawyer
and get any relevant advice. Then I would contact them, either personally or
through my attorney, and try to do everything I could to cooperate with them
to convince them I know nothing about the program in question.
An actual fight is the worst case scenario, and a Pyrrhic victory is likely
the best outcome that could be hoped for.
------
dmoy
This has turned into a "How my comment on <insert places> on my comment on
techcrunch brought down my server" case. Does anyone have a cached copy? I
can't find one except for an interesting looking picture... Do want to see
more.
------
nextparadigms
Facebook comments on Techcrunch was a bad idea from the beginning. It's the
main reason why I started visiting Techcrunch a lot less at the time (and then
other reasons added up,and I quit it for good).
~~~
nikcub
The idea is that people will troll less, but by default it allows hotmail and
yahoo mail login, which is like firing a flare to attract trolls.
~~~
coopdog
I C & D thee for defamation!
How dare you comment so freely..
------
moocow01
Looks like Facebook pulled the trigger a little early on hiring their gaggle
of corporate lawyers - reel 'em back in for just a couple more months
------
zem
quite apart from anything else, defaceable sounds like a brilliant service. do
facebook have any real legal leg to stand on if they do go after it?
------
iamgilesbowkett
hey @racerrick, my mom's a retired lawyer. (for context.) lawyers issue
threats the way other people say hello. if this person says to you on the
phone that you have to prove that you don't own the site, guess what? you
can't prove she said it, since it isn't in writing, and it's not against the
law to lie about that in the first place.
you need a sharp lawyer who won't rip you off. hire one. free advice is worth
every penny you pay for it. however, IN MY OPINION, if you had a sharp lawyer
who wouldn't rip you off, such a lawyer would tell you how to translate "fuck
off, this has nothing to do with me" into lawyer-speak.
the translation would (IN MY OPINION) be brief, clear, and non-argumentative.
whatever you do, DON'T be upset by anything they say to you. provoking rash
reactions is just a tactic they employ.
if I were a lawyer, AND I AM NOT, I would tell you to write a letter that
looked more or less like this:
"Dear Whoever,
I read your letter with interest, and noted your request that I shut down XYZ
Site. However, I am unable to cease operating XYZ, because I do not operate
it, and have never operated it at any time. In fact, I have absolutely no
connection to XYZ, have never had any connection to it, and am unable to help
you. Good luck, and have a nice day."
Again I AM NOT A LAWYER, but that's really all you need to say. You put that
in the mail, certified of course, with receipt, so you can prove they got it,
and you forget this ever happened. Any aggressive, offensive noises they make
other than "here is your court date" are just NOISES. Ignore them.
In the unlikely event they get you in front of a judge, the judge will hear
your simple defense - "nothing to do with me" - and ask them if they have any
proof of it being anything to do with you. Since they don't, it's a short
conversation, and you go home.
If you find yourself saying anything further than what I just described --
"not me, got your letter, nothing I can do" -- STOP IMMEDIATELY and either
hire a lawyer or shut the fuck up.
speaking of hiring lawyers, again, disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is not
legal advice, grain of salt, your mileage may vary. seriously just hire a
fucking lawyer because panicking, freaking out, and/or writing 10,000 words
about this is just completely wasted energy.
~~~
Tichy
Is it even necessary to reply at all? I find it quite outrageous that random
strangers could tap into my time like that. Or if a reply is necessary, could
I charge for it? (I am not the original poster, just hypothetically speaking
if something like that happened to me).
~~~
Tyrannosaurs
So long as your reply is short, balanced and factual then a reply is better
than not replying. If nothing else it's extending the courtesy that we'd all
want extended to us if we were making a complaint (saying, sorry, no, you've
made a mistake), but also you're kidding yourself if you think these things go
away when you ignore them. Reality is that it's more likely that they'll
escalate.
In terms of could you charge for it, no of course not, sadly that's not how
any of this works. You can throw out this sort of threat with little or no
comeback.
------
drstrangevibes
its not for you to prove your innocence , they must first prove your guilt.
reply no case to answer
------
jerrya
Ask a lawyer if you can counter sue Facebook not just for lawyer fees but for
damages for maliciously and falsely accusing you in public, an act that is
certain to sully your reputation.
Ask a lawyer what's the best way to game this situation to increase Facebook's
liability to a maximum while minimzing your risk and exposure.
~~~
furyofantares
I don't think they accused him in public at all
~~~
blues
Just send a postcard:
"Have no idea what you talking about. Nothing to do. Very depressed. Doctor
said to avoid this kind of thing."
Thanx,
xxx
------
endlessvoid94
Oh, come the fuck on. Somebody, somewhere, made a mistake. If you really have
nothing to do with this, then nothing will come of it.
Reply to them and tell them it isn't even you, and that you have nothing to do
with this. They're not going to destroy you or even force you to rack up
thousands of dollars in legal fees. They're not evil.
This is just as bad as the mainstream media -- anything that anybody does that
can possibly be perceived in a way that gets attention is what makes it to the
frontpage now?
~~~
racerrick
That's exactly what I thought, too. And that's when I got the "you sound
guilty" from their lawyer.
~~~
endlessvoid94
so what?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
9 Gigapixel Image of the Milky Way - onosendai
http://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1242a/
======
chaosmachine
Zoomable: <http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/117375>
~~~
NiekvdMaas
Official zoomable version:
<http://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1242a/zoomable/>
------
s_henry_paulson
Hundreds of billions of planets, and this is just our one small galaxy.
Just given the sheer scale of the universe, I think we almost have to be
foolish to think that we're the only life forms that exist in the whole thing.
~~~
elorant
It’s also foolish (no pun intended) to think that the Universe was meant to
have life. We tend to believe that life is what gives meaning to all that
vastness but Cosmos doesn’t need a reason for its existence, it’s just there.
Furthermore it’s not about just life but intelligent life. Life in form of
microbes could be all around the Universe. But intelligent life could be
extremely rare or it could be just too early and we could be the first of many
species to come. It’s not egoistic to think so, it doesn’t make us feel unique
and special, more likely it makes us feel depressed thinking that we are the
only ones or the first of many to come.
If you take the Drake equation for example and tweak a couple of pessimistic
numbers you realize it doesn’t take long before you come to the conclusion
that life is extremely rare. A very good implementation you can find here:
[http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120821-how-many-alien-
worl...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120821-how-many-alien-worlds-exist)
I would also like to point to the Fermi paradox. Given the aforementioned
Drake equation many scientists have made estimations about the number of
civilization in our galaxy. Estimations vary from a few dozen to the
thousands. But if there were even one advanced civilization in the galaxy they
should already have made contact somehow. That is the basis of the Fermi
paradox, you can find more at Wikipedia:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox>
~~~
stargazer-3
It is also foolish to take Drake equation seriously or assume that we know
what intelligent life is. Drake equation should be used for demonstration
purposes only. As a side not, it is good to keep in mind that all we did for
ETI search was looking out for a human-like radio signal with a narrow
bandwidth, which is probably not the best way to transmit information through
the Universe.
~~~
elorant
If you read the link I gave for the Fermi paradox you'll see that this is one
of the dozen explanations on why we haven't been contacted yet by an alien
civilization. So, yes, we might be trying to contact the wrong way.
Actually though it's not exactly wrong, we managed to capture once a
significant signal that could be of alien origin. It's called the wow signal
and you can find more here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow_signal>
The basis of the Fermi paradox though isn't about what we did/do to contact
alien civilizations but the fact that even if one advanced existed in our
galaxy they should have already found us even if we weren't looking for them.
Which brings us back to the conclusion that there might not be advanced
civilizations around and life could very well be in the beginning.
As for the Drake equation it's not a law of physics. It is just a way to
estimate the number of habitable planets in the galaxy and from there to make
an assumption of the number of alien civilizations able to make interstellar
contact.
------
lhtbws
This is amazing. When you can zoom in on a bright speck and discover that it's
actually a giant cluster of stars, and then continue zooming in on that
cluster until it doesn't seem dense anymore, it actually lends context to the
static photos of space we've all seen before.
------
VorticonCmdr
Very cool. Does anyone know why some areas are somewhat blueish. And what
about the very bright stars?
~~~
wl
The colors are a bit arbitrary. The sensor that takes these images only
records intensity and not color. Different filters are placed over the sensor
to record different wavelengths. Not all of these wavelengths are visible
light. The colors are a mapping of these wavelengths to the visible spectrum.
------
colinwinter
It'd be REALLY cool if someone could turn this into a screensaver, where it
progressively pans and zooms in/out. Then when you're mind is just about to be
blown at full-zoom-in, it should rotate like a boss and slap a new perspective
of life into your life.
------
3rd3
Are there some well known features on the picture?
------
Father
Here's a similar thing also made from infrared images of the milky way
[http://djer.roe.ac.uk/vsa/vvv/iipmooviewer-2.0-beta/vvvgps5....](http://djer.roe.ac.uk/vsa/vvv/iipmooviewer-2.0-beta/vvvgps5.html)
------
andrewcooke
abstract <http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012A%26A...537A.107S> with link to
paper (i think; still downloading paper).
update: the paper is fairly large and doesn't have pretty pictures (it has
lots of technical plots, but i imagine it's not what most people think of as a
fun read). also, this image is more a "public view" of the data; the paper is
for the underlying survey.
------
aaronmoodie
I'm not sure if this is by the same photographer, but the image used in the
Sky Survey app is pretty incredible as well. <http://skysurvey.org>
I'm really looking forward to being able to combine detailed visuals like
these with the rift 3d headset or like.
boom!
------
bajsejohannes
Why is the milky way (I assume that's what we call the fat strip) not
centered? Is that just a projection thing? Does the edges of this image wrap?
(I know shamefully little astronomy)
~~~
stargazer-3
What do you mean by 'not centered'? Imagine you are standing on a field of
corn. To you, the field looks like a line encircling you, although it may look
like a square or circle from above. There's your projection thing.
------
eslaught
Ok, where do I get the 9 Gigapixel version? :-)
P.S. Yes, I know I don't really need that much resolution, but still.
~~~
lloeki
> P.S. Yes, I know I don't really need that much resolution, but still.
I call bullshit ;-) as at 15" retina is 4Mpix. In a short time span we'll have
20~30" retina)class at that size and they could very well be 9~15Mpix. Of
course billion pixels is way too much, but it means that it will scale to the
future (I'd love to have a wall-screen with this)
Anyway, multiple links are on the lower part of the rightmost column,
available from 1024x768 to full res in a variety of formats.
~~~
pserwylo
How does ~275Gpix sound? [0][1]. I did a stint at UCSD for two months as an
undergrad, and sat next to this monster while they were playing with it.
It might sound stupid having that much resolution, but it really is cool to be
able to see that much information in front of you. It's especially good if you
have a number of people standing around who are interacting with various data
sets.
And if you want one yourself, it is all COTS hardware, and you can start with
just a few screens then add later [2].
[0] <http://www.calit2.net/newsroom/release.php?id=1307> [1]
<http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/general/07-08HIPerSpace.asp> [2]
[http://optiportal.org/index.php/Main_Page#How_to_build_an_Op...](http://optiportal.org/index.php/Main_Page#How_to_build_an_Optiportal)
------
brandoncapecci
How long until we have a macbook with 108,500 by 81,500 resolution?
------
jordanmoore_
... in a lightbox!
------
maeon3
It's really really big. What gets you is that it's really there, go outside
and look up. All those stars, all that energy running down, without anything
harnessing that energy.
There it is, running down like a forest fire. What will it turn into next? I
see the universe as an egg. And it's designed to become a single super
sentient entity someday that makes our sentience look like inanimate energy.
Our sentience will be the inanimate matter building blocks for something we
can't comprehend.
We will comprehend it as much as a carbon molecule comprehends the human mind.
------
rorrr
If you zoom all the way in, it's blurry (I know, I waited for the tiles to
load). There's no single-pixel detail. That means it's not really a
9-gigapixel image, you can easily reduce it by 2x2, and make it a
2.3-gigapixel images. Save space, bandwidth and time for everyone.
~~~
seandougall
I found the same thing, but see chaosmachine's reply above. The unofficial
version actually works.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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