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Fashionable Problems - hackerews
http://paulgraham.com/fp.html
======
rgbrenner
I think pg understates the problem. It isn't just fashionable. Think about how
the solutions we use today evolved.
Someone had an idea originally and certain decisions were made about that
approach.. those that best adapted to the conditions of the time were
successful... rinse and repeat over several decades.
Those ideas that preserved the past were more likely to succeed because they
preserved the ecosystem that already existed. Ideas that diverged too much
from the existing successful tech had a huge obstacle in their way: they had
to recreate all of the existing solutions in their new model. So even if they
would lead to a better solution over time, they may never get past that
initial roadblock. And the longer we stay on the path, the bigger that
roadblock becomes.
If we are all thinking of ideas around the existing model and assuming all of
the existing assumptions, then we end up with similar solutions (fashionable
solutions). We've reduced the solution space, leading to a limited number of
solutions.
Perhaps groundbreaking/valuable tech can be found by questioning those
existing assumptions; identifying where tech is still built on assumptions
that are no longer true; or reexamining past solutions to see if they can be
solved in better ways today with what we've learned since then...
~~~
jandrewrogers
This is called "first principles thinking" and is one of the most reliable
methods for producing novel insights into a problem space. It is uncommon in
practice because it has a high cost both economically, because you are re-
deriving everything you think you know from scratch instead of "standing on
the shoulders of giants", and socially, because you are deviating from
orthodoxy promoted by high-status individuals.
This kind of relentless indifference to conformity is a rare quality in
people.
~~~
jacques_chester
There's also the cost that you are likely to just spin your wheels retreading
old ground. Examples to the contrary are notable, but notable _because they
are rare_.
~~~
jandrewrogers
I made this assumption for many years, and yes, that cost would be high. I
eventually discovered that, more often than not, everyone assumed that someone
must have already investigated a particular hypothesis but if you tried to
identify that "someone" it turned out that they didn't actually exist. After
doing this exhaustive search a few times in a few different domains and coming
up empty handed, it changed my perspective on the matter, to my great benefit.
Searching for evidence that someone has actually done the work is relatively
efficient. It never fails to astonish me the number of times that _everyone_
believes a particular bit of ground has been thoroughly tread yet, if I try to
find concrete evidence that someone has done the work, there is no evidence
that anyone actually has. There is a strong cognitive bias (I don't know if it
has a name) where everyone assumes that someone else has already tried every
obvious or reasonable approach and that belief is treated as factual.
~~~
_0ffh
>if I try to find concrete evidence that someone has done the work, there is
no evidence that anyone actually has
Unfortunately, the fact that negative results tend to get little if any
publicity works against you here. And it's probably worse outside, not inside
of academia. How often would a project team in some big company, or a couple
of guys in a garage try out some promising alternative approach to something,
fail to realize an advantage over the conventional approach, and then go out
of their way to publicize that failure? That would be extra work for no - or
even negative - gain.
It might just be meant to be humorous, but even "If at first you don't
succeed, destroy all evidence you even tried" sounds more likely than "If at
first you don't succeed, put some extra effort into telling everyone".
------
majos
This post sorely lacks evidence for its big first claim:
> I've seen a similar pattern in many different fields: even though lots of
> people have worked hard in the field, only a small fraction of the space of
> possibilities has been explored, because they've all worked on similar
> things.
Anyone want to step in with some examples? Without them, the thrust of the
essay seems to be: "If only other people understood what problems are worth
working on! Especially in the well-studied areas of essays, Lisp, and venture
funding! Too bad they do not. Well, goodbye."
~~~
account73466
I am wondering how far the essay would go if it were not from PG.
~~~
mbesto
This is basically my biggest critique of PG and various other YC leaders. Many
of the conclusions, while likely be probably being more "right" than "wrong"
in virtue, are derived from intuition and observations, not evidence based.
It's even more ironic, given how much emphasis the firm places on evidence
based thinking of its portfolio founders versus anecdotally thinking.
Great example:
_" One quality that’s a really bad indication is a CEO with a strong foreign
accent"_[0]
The danger is that I think pg has been "right" about so many things that every
time he pontificates about something it's treated as dogma. So when he's
"wrong", it'll be ignored. Impressionable people (which likely fits the
characteristic of many young tech entrepreneurs) will therefore be lead
astray.
[0] -
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/knowledgewharton/2013/12/19/292...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/knowledgewharton/2013/12/19/292013/#539787e916a6)
------
bawolff
Seems like a lot of weirdly defensive people in this thread.
But the essay doesnt really seem that revolutionary more common sense. If you
want to make an impact, dont work in an oversaturated field. The low hanging
fruit is probably already picked and other people will probably get there
before you do. But you also dont want to work in a field nobody cares about as
noone will care. Working on a problem with proven demand, but seems "boring"
and hasn't changed much recently is a good bet, as there is probably new
insights you can apply and new contexts that have appeared since last time
there was a frenzy for that field.
~~~
mannykannot
The advice to not work in an oversaturated field, if you want to make an
impact, looks to me a bit like the reverse of looking for one's keys under the
lamp post, because that is where the light is. We should give some credence to
the proposition that saturation is the wisdom of the crowd at work, figuring
out where a breakthrough is likely, and it is usually only with hindsight that
over-saturation is apparent.
~~~
bawolff
I somewhat suspect by the time something is "popular" it is, almost by
definition, oversaturated. Its sort of like weird investment strategies (e.g.
always buy stocks on mondays, or whatever I dont actually know anything about
stocks). Sure some of them may work originally, but unless i am extremely well
connected, by the time i hear about it, everyone else knows too and the market
has corrected for it.
Perhaps another metaphor is a gold rush. Even if there really is gold in those
hills, if everyone knows there is, its probably already too late to go out and
buy a shovel.
That said, i agree that there is plenty of survivorship and hindsight bias
when it comes to any advice on how to be succesful.
------
MaysonL
Just listened to a podcast with a VC who applied this pattern to nuclear
power. The big problem, which almost nobody was investing to solve, was
nuclear waste. He went out, attended a number of nuclear power events, and
found some people who thought they had a productive attack. They did, and
after he threw some money at them, ended up with a 40 or so X return.
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2019-08-16/josh-
wolfe-d...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2019-08-16/josh-wolfe-
discusses-innovative-investments-podcast)
------
est31
> Even the smartest, most imaginative people are surprisingly conservative
> when deciding what to work on. People who would never dream of being
> fashionable in any other way get sucked into working on fashionable
> problems.
This makes no sense. The concepts of "conservative" and "fashionable" are
almost polar opposites. Becoming a musician or an actor is fashionable and the
dream of many. But it won't bring any money to most people who choose that
career. It's no conservative choice. Instead, it's conservative to go into
STEM, law or finance. But those fields are "boring". The pattern repeats
inside a field as well. It's conservative to be a cobol coder or a DOS expert,
and you'll certainly make money. But it's not fashionable. How come you aren't
building a cryptocurrency using self driving car that has a drone port on the
roof! It results in the woke fields being overrun with very smart and capable
people and capital, while tons of fields that use slightly outdated stuff are
ripe for harvest but nobody is around to do it.
~~~
simonh
I think here by conservative he means doing what everybody else is doing. Risk
averse. Following the mainstream. Going into COBOL May have been a
conservative choice 40 years ago, but not anymore. The conservative choice is
to go with the herd.
~~~
est31
> The conservative choice is to go with the herd.
That's not conservative. Being conservative means that you only follow a
change if it makes sense. If you adopt some new technology, you should do it
because it convinces you that it's better, not because it's new, wasn't
available before, everyone else is doing it, or any other such reason. If you
are conservative, you don't neccessarily end up doing what the majority is
doing, as most times, the majority is following some empty hype.
That's because his use of that word is wrong: everything said in that article
contradicts that statement.
~~~
ksdale
I think your definition of conservative is correct, but it assumes the thing
you’re trying to conserve is something like energy spent on new/different
approaches. I think pg’s definition of conservative in this case assumes the
thing being conserved is something like prestige or credibility.
As an aside, in my experience it’s a fairly common usage to describe any
behavior that avoids risk along some dimension, which could very well mean
going with the herd, if you’re trying to conserve social status.
------
blast
Is this the first PG essay that was composed on Twitter?
[https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1183686114844069888](https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1183686114844069888)
~~~
mmahemoff
Many articles now are cleanly formatted tweetstorms.
~~~
blast
Many PG articles? Which ones?
~~~
mmahemoff
Just a general observation. Wasn't specifically answering your question about
PG's writing.
~~~
xwowsersx
Lol what do you mean a "general observation"? You stated plainly that "Many
articles now are cleanly formatted tweetstorms". Which ones?
~~~
dang
Curious questions are great, but please don't cross examine. That's in the
site guidelines:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
------
lquist
_If you want to try working on unfashionable problems, one of the best places
to look is fields that people think have already been fully explored: essays,
Lisp, venture funding – you may notice a pattern here._
Do people really think the fields of essays, LISP or venture funding are fully
explored?
~~~
gkoberger
I think so? They’re all expanding, of course... but none have really changed
that much over the past few decades. There’s a ton more VCs than there were a
decade ago, but has it really changed as a field? People tweak the formula a
bit, but we haven’t seen a shift in the same way YC shifted things. To a
lesser extent, pg was one of the first “tech essayists” (now it’s a genre,
[http://waitwho.is](http://waitwho.is)).
I don’t think pg is saying they’re being ignored, but rather that there’s a
sense of “yup we figured it out, let’s just iterate slowly on it”.
(I will say I can think of much better examples, but I don’t blame pg for
picking the three examples that sum up his entire career. He picked those
three things when nobody else cared.)
~~~
leppr
Cryptocurrency ICOs showed venture funding could be innovated on way more
fundamentally than "tweaking a formula". The simple ICO model may arguably
have been largely misused, but it kickstarted a lot of promising research and
experimentation[1].
[1]: e.g.
[https://vitalik.ca/general/2019/10/24/gitcoin.html](https://vitalik.ca/general/2019/10/24/gitcoin.html),
[https://www.zfnd.org/blog/dev-fund-guidance-and-
timeline](https://www.zfnd.org/blog/dev-fund-guidance-and-timeline)
------
fnord77
> If you can find a new approach into a big but apparently played out field,
> the value of whatever you discover will be multiplied by its enormous
> surface area.
If you found something in a big, fashionable field with a huge surface area
(cough ai/ml cough), wouldn't this multiplier apply to that fashionable field,
too?
~~~
TeMPOraL
Fashionable _problem_. Played out _field_.
So, essentially, yes - fashionable fields will be well explored; the essay is
about not getting sucked into fashionable _problems_ in whatever field you're
working in.
~~~
backpropaganda
So in the case of AI/ML, the fashionable new thing is unsupervised learning,
self-supervised learning, reinforcement learning, GANS, etc. The played out
problems are image classification, speech recognition, etc.
------
MAXPOOL
Humanity as a whole as problem solving algorithm might be similar to particle
swarm in very complex neighbourhoods and topologies.
Particles (individual humans or small groups) move around in problem space as
particles with position and velocity. Each individual's movement is influenced
by its best known position locally but also the the best known global
positions in the search-space. When better positions are found by others,
individual change their course (take hints) and move towards them.
The problems would be the same. Too much randomness and it's just a random
search. Too much convergence leads to local optimums.
------
starpilot
This advice is just so... airy. Like most of his advice. "Build something
people love" Got it, now what? What do I build, exactly? Like the incredible
Onion talk on startup: "Step 1: come with up an idea. Step 2: Build it. We're
at step 2 - we're half way there"
------
savrajsingh
I think there are still a few major breakthroughs left in our understanding
and use of electricity.
------
nostromo
I love this mini-essay.
The counter to this is that it'll be harder to raise capital for un-
fashionable problems.
If you pitched "ML for sandwich makers" right now you could raise a million
bucks because so many VCs are making fashionable bets on ML.
~~~
StavrosK
So what? Raising is not success.
~~~
wwweston
It’s pretty successful as failures go.
~~~
StavrosK
I guess, if you define "success" as "managing to borrow money"...
------
bobbyi_settv
Fashionable problems are the ones for which you'll have the easiest time
recruiting employees, raising funding and generating press coverage, even
taking into account that their fashionability leads others to pursue them.
------
galaxyLogic
Well that's the whole paradox of Fashion isn't it? You want to follow fashion
but be almost at the top of it. If you are too much next year's style nobody
thinks you fashionable but just crazy. But if you follow last year's trend you
are also unfashionable.
The paradox is that nobody really knows what will be the next fashion and
similarly nobody knows what's the next worthwhile problem-area to work with.
There's a good reason why fashionable problem-areas are well-researched it is
because the results so far have been useful and promising.
------
echelon
My worry in solving an existing problem in a novel way is that the incumbents
can catch up faster than you can scale.
If I were to take on Netflix/Disney/Twitch with some new kind of video
entertainment product, they'd have deep pockets to fund a competing offering.
The lever of equity might work to attract better talent, but only if you
succeed. There's a lot of risk.
Scaling rapidly also means giving up control as you seek capital. It'd be hard
to organically grow and go unnoticed.
~~~
Timberwolf
My experience working for the 800lb gorilla incumbent was that we didn't take
competition seriously at all. Even stuff competitors did that would be trivial
for us to replicate got put in the "not a priority" bucket. The few cases
where we were forced to match a feature you were looking at a lead time
measured in years, tending to infinity if it threatened the influence of a
powerful department. And this is the reactive stuff. Forget actual innovation,
other than a few toy projects that never escaped the lab!
However, this was justified: even the most promising-looking competitors
tripped over their own bad assumptions long before becoming a threat. We saw
plenty of novel ideas but they'd always be sunk by a failure to understand the
basics of how our market worked - things like trying to put a complicated app
with a thousand options at a point in the journey everyone is trying to
simplify and time-optimise, etc.
If someone who knew the market well had gone at it seriously and solved hard
problems rather than apply the usual hand-waving "tech! blockchain! magic!",
by the time we'd noticed it would have been too late to respond. You'd hope
more recent incumbents like Netflix or Twitch might be a bit more responsive,
but corporate inertia can build up surprisingly quickly.
------
diego
Well, I have a hard time thinking of a field that I believe is fully explored.
History has shown time and again that it's really easy to be fooled in that
respect.
------
mark_l_watson
Agree. It is also a good reason for having multidisciplinary interests so we
might have different ideas for looking for very different solutions to
problems.
------
shrubble
In this thread a guy talks about using the Q language and then someone else
jumps in and says 'it's not scalable etc.'
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21854793](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21854793)
What if all this cloud/k8s / serverless stuff is really all piffle? What if
running stuff on dedicated hardware ends up a better solution in some fashion?
~~~
icebraining
It may be fashionable and overused, but I don't think we can talk about the
cloud as if it was still something new and unknown. By now I think one can
already do an informed decision on which to use for a particular problem.
~~~
jakobegger
> an informed decision on which to use for a particular problem
I doubt that really is the case. I think most decisions are made based either
on anecdotes, or whatever someone happens to have experience with.
It's rare that you can accurately predict the kind of workloads you'll have to
deal with ahead of time, and it's even rarer that the people making the
decision have experience with multiple completely different stacks.
And I don't really think it matters that much. Some people solve the problem
with distributed document stores and key value stores, other people use a big
transactional database and just keep putting extra RAM sticks in their
server... I don't think there's always an obviously "better" choice.
------
smitty1e
Let's write "The Online Packaging System To Ruminate About Them All"
(TOPSTRATA).
Are we not eternally one packaging system short of Nirvana?
------
kick
Is this a repost? I feel like Paul has already written this essay.
Edit: Oh, it was originally a tweet:
[https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1183687634763309056?s=20](https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1183687634763309056?s=20)
------
mmaunder
I'd suggest focusing on people and the problems they have rather than
industry, your space, the news and your colleagues. That way you'll serve real
needs rather than getting a ton of street cred as you dissapear down an
academic rabbit hole.
------
mmahemoff
"Fashionable solutions" are a related phenomenon to fashionable problems.
Solving a problem the same way as everyone else (and often expecting a better
result).
Both are widespread.
~~~
franze
"Fashionable Solutions" are major problems. An actor with lack of experience
solves a challenge (a challenge coming from of a million+ times solved
problem) not with a proven solution, but with a fashionable one (one that
currently has some mindshare and good PR). the research most of the time is
looking at alternatives that try to solve the similar thing in the same
fashionable way. therefore no real research was done.
an example: a fashionable solution for a static webpage is a fashionable
static site builder, a unfashionable solution is an HTML page.
------
lazyjones
People are different, but I cannot imagine how someone could seriously work on
(as in: devote their whole working time to, by their own choice, as an
entrepreneur, researcher or hobbyist rather than an employee or student)
problems they don't genuinely love. Sure, some do it for the money, but then
they probably just love money and found a promising opportunity to earn it.
------
jonplackett
It's not just people's desires and people following what is 'fashionable'. I
read a while back that in Physics it was impossible to get funding for
anything outside of what was fashionable, String Theory was their example.
------
akr1
Funny, we've just launched EssayMash.com yesterday trying to accomplish what
PG writes about: further exploration into essays. We host monthly essay
competitions on an important topic with $300+ in cash prizes.
------
galfarragem
What I understand from PG words is that people, even the creative ones, by
lack of courage or macro vision are not a 'Elon Musk' and go with the herd
building yet another crypto or yet another SAAS.
------
ronilan
Silicon Valley’s biggest problem is that is tends to see problems as
opportunities and opportunities as problems. There is no opportunity in that
problem.
------
rdiddly
Nice to see the recent burst of writing activity from PG. Also nice to see
people here putting it through the paces. Would expect nothing less.
------
blondin
yeah but i am afraid pg is not relatable anymore (to most of us anyway).
devoting more than 20 percent of your time to problems that are unfashionable
but dear to you is ill-advised because: a. they don't pay the bill b. they
take time and in the grand scheme of things spending time with others on
things you all understand is better than being happy alone.
but of course there are exceptions...
~~~
m11a
b) not true for everyone. the way different people want to live their lives
is, well, different.
his essays don't necessarily have to be relatable, they just have to be
useful. he isn't a life coach (though I suppose that is arguable). his
expertise is in tech and startups, that's where he's proven himself, and
that's the area where his advice carries weight.
------
blueboo
Paul is confusing ignorance for insight here. It's the same phenomenon whereby
a weekend visit to Paris has your uncle explaining the European soul but your
year in Kyoto leaves you barely able to generalize at all from your (actual)
knowledge of nuance, complexity and diversity of another culture.
Everyone is trying to break the mold at various scopes.
Meanwhile, you're welcome to reproduce your late-90s success at any moment,
Paul. We'll wait.
~~~
jdsully
Does YC not count?
------
mc3
Sounds grand. There are a lot of us who just want to pay the rent. If that
means a React job, so be it.
------
notkid
The heuristic of trying to work on what you genuinely love is not helpful or
practical for most people. It sounds good, but it is just a platitude. Genuine
love and fake love feel and look pretty similar. Most people naturally start
loving the life they live in, if it is generally positive. Then, they make up
a self-affirming, coherent narrative that justifies their emotions, decisions,
and interests. If you do an AI startup, life goes well for you, and you
embrace that decision and life, how can you differentiate whether it was
really a genuine interest or not?
~~~
mark_l_watson
Cal Newport makes the good point that people learn to like/love things after
they get very good at it, whatever “it” is.
I love Joseph Campbell but his advice to his students to “follow their bliss”
may not always be optimal.
I read the AI book “Mind Inside Matter” in the late 1970s, and even though I
have done a ton of non-AI architecture and software development, I have also
been able to work on AI problems like knowledge representation, expert system,
NLP, neural networks, and deep learning starting in 1982. I definitely
followed my bliss, but I have never been world class in my profession, but I
have enjoyed myself.
------
ismail
I think it goes much deeper than people choosing to work on fashionable
problems. Here are my thoughts
1\. The more defined and mature the problem space is, the more the assumptions
that underpin that field are taken as a given.
2\. These assumptions may become so deeply ingrained that people become
effectively blind to the entire range of possibilities.
3\. These assumptions frame how the problem/solution space is looked at.
Therefore the solution space is constrained by the set of assumptions (about
what the problem is , how to solve it, what to do)
4\. These assumptions are recursive, in that they are contained within other
assumptions. It is turtles all the way down. At some level, someone working in
the space may not even understand what the core assumptions are. We have to
have these assumptions though. See the next point.
5\. The interesting thing about this is: The constraining of the
problem/solution space is actually a _positive_. It enables co-ordination and
incremental improvements and refinement. It allows people new to the domain to
quickly get productive.
I like to think about it this way:
Picture yourself in a massive area that is pitch black. You are grasping
around and can not see much. Someone figures out how to get a tiny fire
started. With this tiny fire you get to see a little bit. Using this you can
build a bigger fire illuminating more of the area (but still leaving the
entire space unexplored). This eventual results in the ability to build a
permanent light illuminating a specific corner of this space.
This specific space with light illuminating it becomes highly productive,
people can do all sort of things. Like read etc. Yet, there are still areas
left unexplored. The light cannot simply be taken across. It takes work, and
it takes turning your back towards the current "lit" up space, and taking a
step back into the dark. A scary thought for some.
5\. Importantly: These assumptions have been inherited from the past. So they
existed and were relevant at a specific point in time. They may or may not be
relevant as of today. We would have to peel several layers to get to the core.
6\. While 4 is a positive, it is also a negative. The idea/areas greatest
strength (maturity, constant improvements, efficiencies) is also its greatest
weakness (constraining the search space)
To take a step into the dark, is to turn your back to the lit up parts. You
have to question the underlying assumptions and see if they are still
relevant. If you discover an assumption about the world that is no longer
accurate, then you found a new space to illuminate.
To put it in another way, to explore the dark is to shift your perspective on
the problem/solution. It is to see with "new eyes". Initially it may be dark,
but slowly with diligent work, and passion you could light up a completely new
and novel area.
------
bdotdub
Area man write blog post saying things are great and just so happens to
overlap exactly with what he does
------
gist
> Even the smartest, most imaginative people are surprisingly conservative
> when deciding what to work on. People who would never dream of being
> fashionable in any other way get sucked into working on fashionable
> problems.
How can a statement like that be made? Is there some kind of authoritative
directory of 'the smartest, most imaginative people' being 'surprisingly
conservative when deciding what to work on'.
Implied I guess Paul means 'who I've met or who I know of'. So then say that.
It's a big world out there. Who knows what anyone is working on or what they
are thinking or have tried and why they haven't pursued it.
This is a bit like saying 'people love their dogs and will do anything for
them if they are sick'. Just a general statement of opinion by one person (and
generally accepted as being correct) but based on not anything even close to
being scientific and/or backed up by any actual data. That part is fine. But
if that is the case state it as such and not some absolute. Why does this
matter? Because when someone like Paul writes something it will be taken by
others to be some kind of important thought or fact.
~~~
mvp
Most of his essays have that wise old man who has seen the world kind of vibe
to them. If anybody else writes the same things without the success he has had
it will be ridiculous to read.
I don't think anybody who reads his essays is looking for any scientific
report based on facts. They are looking for some sort of confirmation that
they are not crazy when they have similar thoughts.
~~~
gist
It's in some ways the writing equivalent of the NPR calm and measured voice
the intended impact to make it more believable and important and entirely
rational sounding and correct.
------
sillysaurusx
As a long-time pg supporter, it pains me to say this: I think at this point pg
could write anything and it would show up immediately with critical acclaim.
It was more charming when he had to work hard to make his points known.
But hey, fame, right? Just famous people things.
There's so much more to say in this case, though! _How_ do you avoid the
traps? Waving a wand like "Just love something" leaves far too much to the
imagination. Pointing at a prior essay at loving your work is helpful, but
different.
Often, you have to actively offend people in order to find good problems to
work on. The idea that people have devoted their lives to the wrong thing is
inherently offensive to them. That's a point not covered here.
For example, I imagine that a lot of people who've studied 3D rendering for
their entire lives are about to feel very outdated the moment neural network
renderers displace them. And that's also a good counterexample to the point
that "Often, the best place to search for new ideas is a place thought fully
explored." It might often be true, but it's not always true.
And then there are the in-betweens. Bitcoin was in a field both thought fully
explored (crypto + finance) and also unexplored, in a certain sense.
~~~
tyre
Had the same thought.
Some of his essays, no one else could have written them and brought a fresh,
nuanced perspective.
These couple paragraphs wouldn’t get any attention if not for the name of the
writer. Maybe that’s fine—great writers have their share of banality—but does
reveal how susceptible we are generally to brand name over substance.
~~~
gist
I am actually surprised that PG doesn't feel uncomfortable about the 'acclaim'
that he is getting for writing many of the things he has said that are not
related to anything he has expertise in. Reminds me of celebrities who opine
about politics with their thoughts (sometimes not always with PG).
Paul is authoritative on many topics. General thoughts about life and people
are great to hear what he thinks. Why not? But he is no more special than
100000 other people who have no audience. Does he know this?
I've often thought he should do some A/B posting with his thoughts. Write
something and then randomly decide whether to put it on his blog or some other
place and see what the interest level is.
~~~
dang
They're essays. The word means 'attempt' and the genre has always been about
non-expertise. Montaigne was the ultimate non-expert.
~~~
FreakLegion
> The word means 'attempt'
It can, but doesn't in this context. 'Essay' was a sort-of polyseme (like
'passion', which can still mean 'suffering') that has long since severed ties
with its origin. Outside certain narrow academic discussions, the etymology
and current use of 'essay' have effectively nothing to do with one another.
In any case though pg does pretend to some amount of expertise. "How to Do
Philosophy" is an example.
~~~
dang
Of course it does; it has kept a close association with this meaning
throughout literary history. An essay is an attempt, a sketch, thinking out
loud. It's the literary genre equivalent of informal conversation. In an
essay, you discover what you think by writing it, just as in exploratory
programming you discover what your program is by programming it. To say that
essays aren't for non-authoritative musing is like saying novels aren't for
depicting human experience.
~~~
tyre
I strongly disagree with this.
The greatest essayists are not putting a "sketch" into the world. I cannot
imagine reading an Isaiah Berlin essay and saying, "this is just informal
conversation."
Consider Didion, Foster Wallace, Sontag, Mailer, Orwell, Hitchens, Paine,
Zadie Smith, the founding fathers of the United States via the Federalist
Papers.
There is no lack in seriousness, no lack in rigor, and no lack direct purpose
backed by thoughtful consideration and ample evidence.
There are _also_ informal or unserious or musing essays, but please do not
lump together the entire genre of essays with a description of Medium posts.
~~~
dang
I think we got some signals crossed. I wasn't talking about being
unserious—just that you don't have to be an expert to write a fine essay.
I haven't read all the authors you list, but the ones I have support the
point. They were not specialists writing about topics they were authorities
on. They were good writers and thinkers exploring the topics they were writing
about.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
In 2019, blockchains will start to become boring - whichcoin
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612687/in-2019-blockchains-will-start-to-become-boring/
======
jobigoud
My prediction is that some services or products will use a blockchain as an
underlying mechanism but without telling it and will even deny it, in order to
avoid the stigma.
------
mesozoic
Boring is great. Means we've reached the trough of disillusion and real use
cases can begin to flourish.
------
Cypher
I'm bored just reading about this..
------
bitxbitxbitcoin
And boring is not bad.
~~~
ronsor
Boring is stable and reasonable
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Do you have some advice on pricing a product? - cx42net
Hi!<p>I'm finishing the beta release of my project and one of the main question that's bugging me is the following:<p>> Am I asking for the right price?<p>In general, I would compare the competitors, see their price and adjust accordingly, but in this case, I didn't find any competitors (note : I didn't say there isn't! Maybe I searched wrong).<p>The project, http://uncovr.it, aims to provide an automated reset services for theme and module sellers to their clients.
With Uncovr, my users will be able to setup and forget a basic instance of their plateform (Wordpress and Prestashop so far) and show case their work.
Those instances are resetted every few hours and I made the best I could to provide a simple interface to use.<p>Since I couldn't find any concurrent, I stated the following :<p>> How much would I pay ?<p>I sell some modules on the Prestashop's addons site (scratch your own itch they say) and I went with this formula :<p>* The Professional plan : 1 module/theme sold and it's paid<p>* The Platinum plan : 2-4 modules sold and it's paid.<p>Hence the prices.<p>What do you guys think about it? Are they too high? Not too much?<p>(by the way, what do you think about the project in general? Some inputs would be awesome ! :) ).<p>Thank you (:
======
taprun
I feel like I can speak on the subject, since I just wrote a book on pricing
software.
First, it's often a very bad idea to simply take a competitor's price - both
Timex and Rolex would go bankrupt trying to match the other's price.
Here's the short version of what I suggest:
* Write down the pain point that your product solves in 1 sentence. * Write down the types of people who have that pain. * Rank each type by their willingness to pay and their ability to pay. Willingness will be partially based upon how well you can convince them that you'll save / earn them money. Ability will be based upon how much cash is burning a hole in their pockets.
Come up with three tiers, one for each group with the highest value for
willingness*ability to pay. You may need to alter it a bit, if any of the
groups prove too small.
I have two product pricing teardowns listed at my site (
[http://taprun.com](http://taprun.com) ) that might help you think more about
pricing.
~~~
ddebernardy
> \- Write down the pain point that your product solves in 1 sentence.
> \- Write down the types of people who have that pain.
> \- Rank each type by their willingness to pay and their ability to pay.
Imho, this is not making the necessity to segment a market clear enough to OP.
Consider a wash-machine repairman as an example. The pain point is, naturally,
"broken wash machine". Which occurs each year in a certain percentages of all
households. The naive approach would be to assume that the latter is one big
market, and proceeding to rank households based on their willingness and
ability to pay a wash machine repairman.
In reality, there are a plethora of potential market segments which are based
on criteria that do not in any way relate to price.
In light of a leaky wash machine, for instance, a household's options include:
\- Calling in for the warranty if it's not expired
\- Simply putting a bucket and continuing on with the broken machine
\- Getting the leak fixed by the household tinkerer (or a friend or relative
who tinkers)
\- Buying a new wash machine
\- Going to the laundromat from that point forward
\- Etc.
\- Calling the repairman
Point being: you want to properly identify which segments are indeed a good
fit, prior to ranking them by their willingness and ability to pay.
In addition (in my experience anyway), these two steps are best taken care by
interacting (email, chat, phone, face to face) with potential clients: not
doing so introduces multiple risks, including coming up with a product that
does not match their needs, under- or overpricing it, and -- perhaps most
importantly -- missing out on opportunities to identify higher-value niches
who you can up-sell things to.
------
snarfy
* The Ultimate plan: 8-10 modules sold and it's paid.
Having a third option will increase sales of the second option. This is why
e.g. visual studio has an ultimate edition - to increase sales of the
professional edition. Next to ultimate, professional looks like a good deal.
~~~
cx42net
This is interesting, but wouldn't it make a counter intuitive result? =>
Throwing visitors away by making them think we target high sellers ?
By keeping the logic, 8-10 modules would be around 350 $ / month. But now, I
have to justify this difference!
I could offer the possibility to choose how much time per day their instance
is resetted, and even setup the service in a dedicated server ...
Well, thank you for the feedback, I'll think about it ! :)
~~~
snarfy
I read about it in this book:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_Irrational](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_Irrational)
~~~
cx42net
Interesting, I added it in my waitlist to read :) Thank you.
------
mmorris
Pricing is hard! I've found a lot of the content on the Price Intelligently
blog to be helpful.
[http://www.priceintelligently.com/blog](http://www.priceintelligently.com/blog)
They are pricing consultants, but I haven't actually used them, just read
their content.
~~~
cx42net
Thanks for the link, there is a few post that seems interesting at first look,
I'll take the time to read them :)
------
debacle
Hey, I don't have any input on pricing, but I think you should try and spend a
few dollars on a copy editor. There are a lot of grammatical mistakes on your
homepage and you could get someone to proofread that for you for very little
money.
~~~
cx42net
Thank you for the remark. I'm not a native english speaker but I tried my best
to find and fix mistakes, but apparently some where missed!
I'll proof read it. Thank you again.
~~~
debacle
You could probably pay someone <$20 to proofread the site on eLance or
craigslist.
~~~
cx42net
Thank you for the names. I'll also take into consideration Fiverr.
~~~
giarc
Review these contractors though, many are not native english speakers as well.
You might end up with the same grammatical errors and less $20.
~~~
cx42net
Would you like to do it for 15$ ? ;)
~~~
giarc
Here are some obvious ones.
"Start your 15 days free trial." \---> "Start your free 15 day trial."
"We provide a powerful (yet simple) hosting service with automated resets to
showcase your work without thinking about server management."
The fact that this sentence changes font size is odd. Make it all the same or
cut it into two sentences.
"Forget users that screws your demos!" \---> "Forget users that screw your
demos!"
"We provide both email and phone support with fast reply." \---> "We provide
lightning fast email and phone support."
"Let us manage your demos instance and will only have to focus on the sales!"
\---> "Let us manage your demo instance so you can focus on sales!"
"...in order to avoid bad users to break your demo websites." \---> "in order
to avoid bad users that broke your demo websites." ???? or something similar.
"get access to the error logs (for platinums account)" \---> "get access to
the error logs (for platinum accounts)"
"Visits statistics (not yet available)" \---> "Visit statistics (coming soon)"
Stopped reviewing after this, and only reviewed landing page.
~~~
cx42net
What could I do for you in return? Do you have something in mind?
~~~
giarc
Thanks for the offer, but it's fine. It really only took 5 minutes. Good luck
with your startup.
~~~
cx42net
Thank you very much, I really appreciate.
------
ASquare
Check out this (relatively short) e-book on pricing.
I found it quite helpful.
[http://download.red-gate.com/ebooks/DJRTD_eBook.pdf](http://download.red-
gate.com/ebooks/DJRTD_eBook.pdf)
~~~
cx42net
PDF downloaded, I now need to read it :) Thanks for the link!
~~~
ASquare
Cheers!
------
jonwachob91
There are three basic methodologies:
1\. Your total costs + some profit $ = Product Price
2\. Your comparable competitors price + or - some amount = Product Price
3\. A BullShit price you pull out of your ass that you tell people to pay or
fuck off = Product Price
Explanations -
3\. Apple is a prime example of this pricing model. nuff said.
2\. Comparable competitor being the key phrase. I also suggest pricing higher
and building a better product. Undercutting can start a nasty pricing war that
can cause a lot of unndeeded revenue lost, on both sides.
1\. This seems most appropriate for you. You can't just price at what you
think the market says they are willing to pay. They may say they are only
willing to pay $1/month. That's not going to cover your labor costs unless you
have a ton of users. Figure out your labor costs associated w/ maintenance and
additional features (don't forget to account for future hires). Price at that
amount plus some profit (something like 10% or 20% if you have high labor
costs. Don't be afraid to stretch that percentage higher too.) If you can't
find a price point that covers your costs, but is in a range that users are
willing to pay for, than you don't have a business.
Entrepreneurs often forget that you can build this kickass product that every
user needs, but if the customer doesn't have a high enough ROI they won't buy
the product.
User != Customer
~~~
cx42net
Your insight is very interesting. I cannot tell exactly my total cost because
I'm missing some parameters (maintenance, working on additionnal features,
some potential future hires, etc).
Your comment made me think about something I was missing: ROI. I don't state
in the home page that this service will help increase their sales! Silly me!
~~~
jonwachob91
>>> Your comment made me think about something I was missing: ROI. I don't
state in the home page that this service will help increase their sales! Silly
me!
ROI doesn't have to be an increase in sales. It could be increased efficiency
(thus lowering the customers labor costs).
There are lots of sub-categories, such as a marketing ROI. But those sub-
categories can always be classified as either lower cost or increased sales.
>>> Your insight is very interesting. I cannot tell exactly my total cost
because I'm missing some parameters (maintenance, working on additionnal
features, some potential future hires, etc).
Best thing to do is guess. If you hire 2 additional engineers and a marketing
specialist, you could forecast an additional $325k in labor every year. Add in
your salary, so arbitrary number, lets say you have $450K in labor each year,
tack on space rent server costs and other costs at a guesstimate. This'll tell
you the minimum costs you are going to have in a year, divide that by a price,
and that tells you how many customers you'll need to break even. Or you can
divide costs by an expected number of customers and get your price.
~~~
cx42net
Well, I need many users, really many many many with this current setup :p
------
jameszol
If you have time, I highly recommend reading The 1% Windfall by Rafi
Mohammed[1].
There are dozens of pricing options in the book; however, Rafi's favored model
is: try to set a price based on the value the buyer receives.
In your case, it sounds like you are the buyer because you built something
that fixes a problem you had. If the pricing is something you will pay, then
you're probably in the ballpark with your prices.
Have you surveyed other theme/module sellers to determine the value a service
like yours would provide to them? Using your scenario, will other sellers
value (pay) for your service at the equivalent of 2 sales/month for the Pro
plan and 4-6 for the Platinum? Will you pay that much to a competitor if they
build a similar business?
Good luck with your product! If I were a theme or module seller, it looks like
something I might try because as a regular theme and module buyer, nothing
frustrates me more than to click a demo link only to find demos that do not
exist anymore. I almost never buy a theme or module that I can't demo first.
[1] [http://www.amazon.com/The-1-Windfall-Successful-
Companies/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/The-1-Windfall-Successful-
Companies/dp/0061684325)
~~~
cx42net
This post is giving me a lot of reading! All of them are interesting, I just
miss the time ;)
Your last line is a great motivation for me, thank you very much for that.
I think I'll prepare a survey/discussion about the pricing by contacting some
ThemeForest sellers, I just need to find the good introduction email for that
:)
------
freejack
I like to think of price as a reflection of positioning & strategy. If your
strategy is to aim at the high end of the market, then your price should
reflect that. If you are looking to target the mass market, then you might
want to consider value pricing. This sounds fairly niche, so if it were me,
I'd thoroughly consider a premium price backed with lots of value in the
product.
~~~
cx42net
By a premium price, do you mean a third one?
I aligned the price with what I gain from selling modules, and the platinum
one is still a bit too high for my monthly income, that's why I consider it as
premium.
But maybe you are talking to a bigger plan ? something more around 250+$ ?
I try to also take into consideration the sellers from Themeforest that starts
and doesn't earn a lot.
------
orkoden
Think about why you want different plans. Maybe you're better off with just
one plan. Then customers don't have to worry they might get the wrong plan.
Instead of having plans you could also charge by module and just give a
discount on more modules. "Pay for three, get one free". Confusing and
complicated payment options can hinder sales. You can also start with one and
then add more later depending on what customers need.
At the moment you're artificially differentiating your plans by the possible
rest times. But that's your main feature. Don't restrict that at all. It's
what makes your product interesting.
~~~
cx42net
I initially thought about charging by modules, it was even the main argument
at first.
But this was not adequate because
1\. Wordpress theme sellers doesn't care about modules 2\. This would require
a deep change in the code's plateforms (Wordpress, Prestashop) which is not
best suited (this may introduce bugs).
As you said, differentiating the plans with the reset time is a good option.
Heck, I even had an hard time thinking what frequency was the best! Not too
short (the instance would become impossible to use) and not too long :)
------
cx42net
Here's the clickable link :
[http://uncovr.it](http://uncovr.it)
(I don't know why it's not in the question).
~~~
tylermac1
You can't make clickable links in post content.
~~~
cx42net
Indeed, I just read the FAQ
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html))
and it's explained here :)
------
abcd_f
Obligatory link on basics of price formation, just in case if you haven't seen
it before -
[http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html)
~~~
cx42net
Thank you! :)
------
koonsolo
You have found the right price when your customers complain about the price,
but buy anyway. :)
~~~
cx42net
Exactly, I have that exact situation with
[https://www.voilanorbert.com](https://www.voilanorbert.com) :)
~~~
toong
That looks very cool. How does it work ?
~~~
cx42net
Thank you very much.
In a nutshell, the manager requests the servers responsible of rendering the
demo pages, and those servers contains generic installations that are deployed
everytime an user creates a new instance :)
In the global view, this project contains static pages (official website),
Play Framework (Java/manager), PHP scripts (cron tasks, some tools) and shells
scripts for automating installation. Everything on top of a
Apache/PHP5-FPM/MySQL/Debian stack, hosted at Digital Ocean :)
------
mbesto
Always price higher than you think. Bringing prices down is much easier than
bringing them up.
~~~
cx42net
You are absolutely right. Reading your comment made me think about a video
talking about exactly that and says the same thing (sorry, it's was years ago
and I can't remember which one ; It was a talk with some Google engineers at a
conference I believe).
------
drikerf
I think you should ask your potential customers how much they would pay for
your service before setting a price. If you havn't interviewed your customers
yet, do it.
~~~
cx42net
I plan to set up a nice message introducing the project and asking the point
of view of potential customers this week-end :) We'll see what will the
results be :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: LiveTourLab – A framework for creating Live VR Tours - andelar
https://github.com/livetourlab/live-tour-lab
======
andelar
We are at a critical point in defining what VR will become.
It would be sad if VR just makes humankind even more addicted to consuming
passive entertainment, or something that you "scan in", or a better youtube
video. We therefore set out to make cinematic VR a more active experience.
We believe VR can become something that helps us be more present in the
moment, that fuels our imagination, that boosts our creativity. We believe in
making interactive cinematic VR into something that everyone can handcraft
with care, like the art of photography of videography. We believe in marrying
the art of the old medias with VR and with code. The code added into your live
tour becomes portable across all platforms, thanks to WebVR.
There are billion dollar companies with proprietary solutions in this space,
but we felt nothing good enough. We believe that with the power of open
source, it can be done. If you like it, please contribute, or support by
starring the repo. Thank you!
// Anders, main developer
~~~
yodon
You stuff looks really impressive but any page that starts with "10x more
interactive than ..." and "10x more extensible than ..." makes me want to
click away because I'm clearly being told nonsense.
If you've actually done the research to back up those claims, by all means,
include them and cite the research, otherwise please don't make up statistics
and think it will improve how we think about your work.
Your video is impressive, your work is impressive. You don't need to make up
statistics to get people to understand that.
~~~
andelar
Hi Yodon,
thank you for your suggestion and feedback. But as a matter of fact, we have
done the quantification, so it was not taken out of thin air :-)
10x more interactive than 360 videos:
=> We measured the average engagement time increase from around 1 minute to
around 10 minutes for the same content, when transferring it from a 360 video
to a LiveTourLab tour. This is not surprising. The same general observation
was done by YouVisit already a year ago, as I can read, when you give
navigation control to the user. You are drawn into the experience, step by
step.
10x faster creation than game engine VR
=> We have many users now confirming they could produce an interactive Live
Tour within hours from never seen the framework before following the getting-
started in the Readme, with custom code. At least for me, with a few decades
of coding and knowledge of over 20 programming languages, it took me 2 days on
both UE and Unity to reach far less functionality.
10x more extensible than GUI authoring tools
=> This is more like "infinitely". How much more extensible is code than a GUI
tool? :-)
100% cross-platform including custom code
=> Clear.
100% standard camera compatible
=> Clear. So not like Matterport where you need to buy a $4,000 proprietary
camera.
100% open source
=> Clear. So different from say Matterport, YouVisit, InstaVR, iStaging, etc.
0 server lock-in with static build
=> Clear. I wanted to make this clear because a lot of companies talk about
"open source" but then in practice you have to host on their server. Not the
case here. Fully static build that can be hosted on any web server.
0 effort to start, a lifetime to master
=> 0 is an approximation. First I wrote "1 hour to get started 100 years to
master", but then someone complained that it is more like 85 years since the
first 5 years you are too young and last 10 years at 90-100 you might be too
old. Not easy to get everyone happy haha :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
AI in medicine will help doctors, not replace them - elorant
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/does-ai-have-a-place-in-medicine/
======
godelski
I'm always confused with these types of articles. "Will AI cause job loss" or
"Will AI create jobs" aren't really the important questions. Because those
questions are about net gain and loss, because yes it will cause job losses
and yes it will create jobs. But that's not what's important to the average
person.
If your job is automated away, what are you going to do? Hypothetically let's
say that AI can accomplish everything that an X-ray tech can (or that with the
help of automation a single tech can do what 10 techs do today). What happens
to those people? They spent a lot of time and money getting that training.
Retraining programs suck and are shown to be really ineffective. So do these
people just go underemployed the rest of their lives? What about people who
are 10-15 years from retirement? Even if retrained you go from peak earnings
to starting wages. That's a huge disrupt in life.
Job loss is extremely important to consider ( _assuming you care about people_
), even if the total number of jobs are increased. We've seen this in the past
and we're seeing it today. Lots of automation came into farming and many of
those jobs disappeared. Family legacies were lost. But at the same time it is
inhumane to not allow the progression of technology (like we could even stop
it...).
My concern is that people aren't discussing the transitions of economies. We
all want to live in a post scarcity world like Star Trek. Where food, housing,
and basic essentials are effectively trivially obtained (for the most part in
the show). But transitioning to that kind of society is extremely disruptive
and has a lot of pitfalls on the way. It isn't unimaginable to ask "What if
10% of your population is unemployable?" (several scenarios: jobs just
automated away; only existing jobs require high skill and training; transition
period where those people are trained for jobs that recently got automated
away; etc) What do we do? How do we handle that? We're a society where people
still believe your worth correlates with your wealth ( _diction intended_ ). I
see very few people talking about this, and these kinds of scenarios are
plausible within the next 50-100 years.
Net gains or losses of jobs is a distracting question and the wrong one to
ask.
~~~
DoreenMichele
I basically went through this by getting divorced after two decades as a
homemaker. I spent several years homeless. I previously had a class in
_Homelessness and Public Policy_ while studying to become an urban planner.
Some things that would help a whole lot:
1\. We need to address our housing issues.
This isn't necessarily disastrous if you can move to some little hole in the
wall in a walkable area with good transit so you can still have a life while
living on meager earnings and retraining. The problem is that we've torn down
about a million SROs in the US and the average size of new housing has more
than doubled since the 1950s, so there just aren't enough places like that.
2\. We need to resolve our healthcare issues in the US.
Healthcare costs something like 20% of GDP and disproportionately negatively
impacts poor people, unemployed people and people with chronic health issues
(who are often pushed into poverty by that fact). If you can go to a doctor no
matter how poor you are, these problems are vastly less likely to snowball out
of control.
3\. We need to embrace gig work and figure out how to make it a positive
instead of decrying it and vilifying it.
When I was deathly ill and homeless, gig work was a godsend. My earning
capacity gradually went up and I eventually got back into housing. I still
struggle, but it's better than it used to be.
Gig work allowed me to develop an earned income and marketable skills at a
time and under circumstances where no regular job would have worked, yet all I
seem to ever hear is how evil it is. It's not inherently evil, though
certainly some gig work is handled in a problematic fashion that keeps workers
trapped in a dead end.
~~~
iudqnolq
Just want to say I frequently see your comments not get many replies, and at
least in my case it's because you're so comprehensive and right I don't have
anything to say.
------
bschne
I feel like I've read somewhat similar pieces about every single field
affected by automation and AI at this point.
In every other article, there's a dichotomy between "everyone will keep their
jobs and be more efficient and have more time to focus on what matters" and
"everyone will lose their jobs and be replace by machines". This then gets
resolved to "we will never be replaced because 'human factors'", therefore
option a).
I am sure the author knows their field well, but this just doesn't seem to
provide any interesting / new viewpoint on the issue beyond the arguments that
usually come up in superficial discussion of the topic.
~~~
godelski
The bigger question, imo, is how we handle those job losses. Retraining
doesn't really work. So what do we do with those people? Just say "whoops,
your job is automated away. I'm sure you'll find some new equally paying
job."? Because that seems like a good way to start a very bloody revolution.
~~~
tedivm
Somebody has to annotate the data.
Joking aside, I think for a lot of medical stuff the shift is already
happening- there are less people going into certain fields (such as radiology)
due in part to fear that it isn't a long term career. This is driving up
radiology pay as the demand is outpacing the incoming supply.
While I ultimately believe that most things are going to get automated, I do
agree that in the short to medium term were going to see AI augmenting medical
professionals rather than replacing them. This is just the natural progression
of things- the technology can start off with the low hanging fruit and
gradually take on more and more of the work. This provides immediate benefit
while building funding and knowledge that can be used to take the next big
step.
~~~
godelski
I agree with you. But what I'm saying is that this has societal impacts that
we actually have to consider. A job's description drastically changing within
a short period of time (i.e. a small portion of someone's career) is extremely
disruptive. We should be having conversations with how we as a society are
going to deal with these issues. (I don't think we should stop the march of
progress. I don't think we even can -- short of a nuclear war)
------
roenxi
The elephant in the room with doctors is that there are many countries where
the supply is constrained by some sort of guild system and only very clever
people do well.
If AI can lower the bar to the point where Ned the Nitwit can type in the
symptoms, read the screen and get a reasonable diagnosis then 'doctors' are
going to be a completely different class of people even if they share the same
title.
~~~
JamesBarney
There are a lot of current doctor work which involves. "Any issues with the
medication your on, ok, can I see your bloodwork, no red values, here is your
prescription."
~~~
dragontamer
Which really should be the job of a nurse or physician's assistant. Doctors
should be reserved for the cases that requires the ~10 years of training they
receive.
Most people probably only need a yearly-visit to the physician's assistant or
a nurse for bloodworks. There shouldn't be a need to see an actual doctor on a
regular basis (unless you have some chronic ailment that nurses / physician
assistants can't handle).
\------------
The prescription is probably the only part of that routine that requires a
doctor.
~~~
aaron425
Might be some sort of liability aspect to this, where the doctor has to
certify in case something goes wrong. Do nurses/PAs have to carry malpractice
insurance? Not super clear on this myself.
~~~
phren0logy
Nurse Practitioners can be sued for malpractice, but despite practicing
independently they are held to a significantly lower standard of care.
------
Herodotus38
One boring truth is that so far the most notable universal and true advance AI
has made in medicine (at least in the US) is in NLP with dragon dictate.
~~~
dr_dshiv
What do you think of m*modal? (If you've heard of them)
~~~
Herodotus38
I have not heard of them but from reading their website looks like using AI to
help charting efficiency and to squeeze more blood out of the turnip so to
speak by making sure you get all those HCCs. This is the direction I’ve
thought AI in medicine will go for a while: speech to text, suggested
diagnosis and then suggested treatment plans. When you can get a HIPAA
compliant way to record what the pt is saying and write the note (an AI
scribe, so to speak), that is where I think it will start.
How is m*modal, have you used it?
------
rscho
If people and especially doctors were serious about improving healthcare, they
should strive to build reliable data collection means. That's the prerequisite
to efficient 'AI', and would be a far better use of funding than all the
present half-baked 'improvements' and star-system research. We could really do
science, then. A man can dream...
~~~
ivalm
There is a lot of data collection. With everyone using EMRs massive datasets
are available. They just aren't available to people outside the walled gardens
for PHI/privacy reasons.
At Kaiser Permanente, I regularly train models on 10s/100s M patient/dr
encounters. Our transformer language models are fine tuned on multi-billion
word corpuses. Some of our models do real time inference on millions of
patient notes per month.
The thing is, from data governance standpoint our org, and most other health
orgs, just aren't comfortable sharing this data with outside businesses or
even each other. And of course orgs like KP strongly don't believe in
licensing internally developed products to other health orgs.
~~~
rscho
I personally generate several Gbs of healthcare data per day.
I know we generate a lot of data. I also know it's data that's so unreliable
that its business value does not lie in its real-world use for improving
healthcare pathways. It's very valuable politically and from a managerial
standpoint, though. Unfortunately.
~~~
ivalm
I mean it depends. There is a lot of fairly reliable discrete data in
medicine: medications/labs/imaging studies/procedures/flowsheet/etc. ICD10
diagnoses are discrete and fairly reliable. The progress notes have lots of
copy/paste/smart-phrase/macro-generated trash, but at least Epic saves a lot
of rtf markup about the source of the text data. I am pretty optimistic about
data quality, it is availability to 3rd parties that I think is limiting the
AI boom.
~~~
rscho
I remain unconvinced, but let's hope you're right.
------
__s
If an AI assisted doctor is 125% more efficient than a non assisted doctor,
you only only need 80 doctors where you'd otherwise need 100. That's 20
doctors that have effectively been replaced
Then consider the amount of not-doctor roles in medicine which can be
automated/assisted
~~~
roberte3
Your looking at it wrong.
A doctor's appointment schedule is crazy busy, with "LONG" appointments being
under 20min per patient. Imagine a scenario where a doctor is able to spend
time with the patient/their medical history etc.
I spend a lot of time going to doctors appointments these days, and a large
number of the doctors that I see, now have an assistant/transcriptionist in
the room to manage the EMR/charting app, because that enables them to focus on
the patient.
~~~
iudqnolq
I've never understood this argument. Right now we have decided implicitly as a
society we're fine with the current level of care. If we can provide that same
level of care cheaper, what makes you think health care providers will decide
to pass those savings onto patients in the form of more care for the same
price?
~~~
Engineering-MD
I would disagree with this statement. Every year, expectations rise, and it is
becoming increasingly difficult to meet these expectations. Furthermore, I
think expectations are tempered by the knowledge that staff are over worked
and time is limited. It is infeasible to practice medicine the way it us
taught in medical school in practice due to time constraints. And like
everything else, the work tends to fit the time available.
~~~
iudqnolq
I hope very much you're right, and that as medicine gets cheaper we get more
of it.
------
imvetri
Machines are inevitable.
The concept of sensing and learning from surroundings should survive.
Human's feed AI, AI should go interstellar.
But what we will have to make sure is are we feeding the AI the right things?
Nope, Tech giants, once built by nerds are now ruled by political criminal
minds.
Without living in harmony there is no way AI will serve only good purpose.
If you are a developer, think thorough whom are you helping, why they need
you. The code you write is a part of your brain. Have self righteous that code
should be used for good and good only.
How will you guarantee that? you cant. Then don't innovate!.
Stop being the old school nerd boy and level up. Do not show off and gain
attention unless you fully solve the problem.
Circle back to start. Question again and again how this will be used
flawlessly. If it doesn't its not worth sharing knowledge. Share morals.
------
oarabbus_
It'd be a pretty good thing if AI replaced (most) doctors, actually. Not for
the doctors or the insurance companies, but for most everyone else.
------
hgjbhujxgjbv
AI is not here for doctors but for insurance companies, to charge you more if
risky group is detected. There is the money and far lower risks than "helping
doctors". I am glad I have forseen this step into distopia and never shared
any of my data with any online bussiness (lineage, xprivacy and netguard help
here).
------
oneepic
...yet. Maybe it will be 100 years in the future, but I think there's a good
chance of it.
------
throwaway122378
The fact that I could see a doctor today, see a different doctor tomorrow,
give them different scenarios and both will think of it as the truth is a
bigger problem that needs to be solved
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Where are we now with eye tracking? - chx
Thanks to Windows Hello now many laptops basically pack a Kinect, infrared etc. I am wondering whether eye tracking using this hardware could be used to replace the mouse.
======
imauld
I don't know about replace but most likely supplement.
I for one wouldn't want to be blinking at my computer all time. I imagine this
would also be a boon for pop up ads as they could steal your focus right as
you were about to blink or whatever, causing you to open an ad or take some
other action you wouldn't want. But having UI elements appear when you want to
see them and then disappear once you look away would be neat.
~~~
eb0la
I agree with you about supplementing mouse with eye tracking. But I guess we
will see something combining eye tracking and speech recognition.
For instance: If I am looking at an specific stock chart I could ask the
computer to place an order. In this case eye tracking and voice would be used
to match the kind of stock I want to trade.
------
agitator
I was actually working on a Deep Learning approach to this, using only a
webcam. As a dev, I hate lifting my hands from the keyboard to use the mouse.
Started working at a different startup, so it's a bit on the back burner right
now :(
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: A Facebook Group for Solo Founders - liquimoon
Startups are tough. It's especially tough for solo founders. Having gone through Startup Chile, I understand the value in having a good community of peers.<p>So, if the value of having cofounders is really just emotional support, let's be the emotional support for one another. I've created a Facebook group for Solo Founders. Let's connect and share our experiences.<p>http://www.facebook.com/groups/390441457703323
======
hansy
Having a support group definitely helps to get stuff done.
We make private groups for founders and provide tools to help them
communicate, most notably weekly/monthly video chats.
Check us out! <http://landing.vocaltap.com/startups>
------
calbear98
It's not specifically for sole founders, but I'm on nReduce and it's a good
way to get feedback from fellow entrepreneurs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Achieving financial freedom through freelancing - yasbhagchandani
I am working as a full time freelancer from around 7 years now but it's been major ups and downs in terms of income which never led me to achieve financial freedom.<p>Is there a good way to earn good amount and achieve financial freedom?
======
theworld572
Financial independence comes down to simply earning as much money as you can
while spending as little as possible.
As to how to earn the most money you can, I think that depends a lot on your
personal circumstances. But if freelancing hasn't worked out for you then I
guess the other options are to get a permanent job or to start your own
business. Its impossible for me to say which one is the best option for you
though.
------
sethammons
Define financial freedom. To me, that is the point where I can choose to no
longer work and retire. Some call it your FIRE number, and there is a whole
subreddit on it. I wouldn't expect that in 7 years of anything. I'd have to
pocket, after expenses, like $800k a year to achieve financial freedom in 7
years. Another interpretation of financial freedom is escaping living from
paycheck to paycheck. That can be hard, but requires that you pay yourself
first and make more than you need. Over time, you have a warchest to smooth
out bumps.
------
Yvonne_McQ
I would say to achieve financial freedom, it's necessary to control your
finance. You should be responsible for all your spendings and maybe have some
special notebook to write down the incomes and spendings to understand how
much you could spend and for what. If you can't deal with your finance there
is no matter how you are working freelance or at office.
------
saluki
Freelancing does seem to be feast or famine. A lot of it is your network and
happening to connect with the right person at the right time to get good
projects.
For financial freedom in freelancing you need a long run of really good
connections and projects. Even then you need to keep that pipeline
full/moving.
I think the key is finding a way to sell products/training and/or a SaaS or
productized service. You're really only going to be free when you aren't
depending on a handful of clients for your lively hood.
So I would spend 80% of your time on client projects and 20% on your own info
products, productized service/SaaS.
I'm just starting doing this myself 80/20\. It's always a challenge to keep
your own products moving forward. So hopefully setting aside 20% to really
focus on my own SaaS will allow me to get this launched in 2020.
Here's some inspiration:
DHH Startup School
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CDXJ6bMkMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CDXJ6bMkMY)
[https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/098-adam-wathan-of-
refa...](https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/098-adam-wathan-of-refactoring-
ui)
[https://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/archives](https://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/archives)
[https://saas.transistor.fm/](https://saas.transistor.fm/)
I know success stories are probably few and far between but this is doable.
Having revenue coming in that isn't tied to the hours you work is a game
changer.
Right now you have to sell your time for money, but build something that earns
you money while you sleep.
Charge for hosting and maintenance, automate something valuable to your
clients. Sell info products/courses. Create a SaaS.
Check out Rob Walling's stair step approach, in startupsfortherestofus.com
Good luck in 2020.
~~~
odonnellryan
One day a week is an awesome idea. I've been trying to work on one of my
projects more often, and I think I'll start giving this a shot.
------
danieka
I think freelancing can be a good way to achieve financial freedom and I'm
considering doubling down on this approach. However I think an essential
element is using geographical arbitrage. So while continue working for western
wages you move to a country with a low cost of living. If I want to work in
Europe I might consider Egypt or Morocco, or if time differences aren't a
problem, probably SE Asia. Achieving FI through work requires you to be really
thrifty, I think you should be saving 60-80% of your income to reach FI in a
reasonable timeframe. [1]
The other thing is that I think you should look at more advantageous tax
setups. Look into flag theory. With it you can reduce your tax substantially.
In Sweden, where I live, I have to pay about 50% of what I invoice in taxes.
So by not paying taxes and keeping living expenses the same I would
automatically save 50% of my income.
For me personally, I "like" paying taxes, so I probably wouldn't be looking at
the most extreme setups. What I would consider is running my business through
an Estonian company as a way to defer taxes. In Estonia the company tax is 0%
on profits you leave in the company and reinvest, on profits that you take out
as dividend the company has to pay a 20% tax. So you can say that the company
tax is deferred and instead of paying it the same year as earning the money,
you pay the tax when you take the money out of the company. I would take out
as little money as possible from the company keeping most of the money in the
company, un-taxed. Investing money pre-tax compared to post-tax makes a huge
difference on return. Once I had built up enough invested capital in the
company I would over time stop working and take out the profits from my
investments as dividend. Then I would of course have to pay taxes, but at that
point I think it's something that I can afford. So it's more of a tax
deference scheme than a tax planning scheme. Also, an Estonian company is
super easy to setup, and to many it doesn't feel as shady as BVI, Cayman or
UAE.
Of course, IANAL, and this is stuff I read on the internet from people that
may be just as misinformed as me, and which country you're a citizen of plays
a huge role. For example, for a Swede it's very important to found the
Estonian company after moving out of the country, otherwise you could have to
pay taxes to Sweden on all dividend from the Estonian company for the next 10
years, no matter where you live.
[1]
[https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=50...](https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=50000&initialBalance=0&expenses=25000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4)
~~~
shinryuu
Though, even for a company you do pay taxes where you spend most of the time.
So if your main presence is in Sweden you would pay taxes in Sweden. On the
other hand, if your main presence is in estonia you would pay taxes there,
irrespective of whether it is a Estonian company or a Swedish company.
~~~
danieka
You're right that my answer is incomplete. In these matters the devil is truly
in the details. And my answer to your point is: yes, but it depends. And you
have to look up the local tax laws to see if the company could be said to have
a presence in your country of habitation. And whether that presence comes with
any taxes.
In Sweden there are specific criteria that have to be met in order for the
company's income to be taxable in Sweden. So if you don't meet those criteria
you shouldn't have a problem. Those criteria are quite narrow, so this setup
would not work in Sweden.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A London Hedge Fund Lost $1.2M in a Friday Afternoon Phone Scam - jackgavigan
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-07/friday-afternoon-scam-cost-hedge-fund-1-2-million-and-cfo-s-job
======
Someone1234
> Fortelus has “strong internal policies against fraud prevention” [lawyer
> Daniel Astaire] said in an e-mail.
That's an unfortunate slip of the tongue (pen?) given the fraud.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Real Reason Tech Billionaires Should Fear Trump - cmurf
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/the-real-reason-tech-billionaires-should-fear-trump/amp
======
cmurf
_Tech leaders who once fancied themselves the vanguard of a post-partisan,
technocratic future, now face a mounting public relations crisis in the Age of
Trump._
I wonder what sort of financial hit a company takes by moving headquarters
outside the U.S. and no longer being a U.S. based company, and if this is a
specialty within economics that some of these companies hire. What's the 5,
10, 20, 25 year calculus of "if the immigration door is closed, do we move,
when do we move, where to we move, or do we merely act like we're moving and
see if the political winds change in 2-4 years?"
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Would you read a book about emulation? - cpro
I have always been a fan of emulation (system emulation such as NES, SNES etc). The process of learning how to create my own emulator was a grueling one (lack of documentation for some systems and lack of information on the subject in general).<p>After successfully writing a few emulators I thought documenting the process step-by-step would be an interesting read for anyone that also has an interest in emulation.<p>I am roughly 25% complete (https://goo.gl/4kMYaR) but I am curious what kind of interest there is in the subject.
======
v_ignatyev
Hi! I made an CHIP8 emulator on JS and debugger for the core emulation, but I
want deeper knowledge. I want to see, buy and read your book! Leave me an
e-mail at [email protected] or ping me in Twitter @v_ignatyev for more
feedback and my story and experience with emulators!!
------
v_ignatyev
And I like to see following topics explained: Emulation vs Simulation
Theoretical and practical limitations: emulated systems performance Pseudo
realtime emulation Emulation approaches: dynamic re-compilation, ??? Examples
of emulated systems and emulators Emulators architecture
------
Someone1234
It depends, even a book "documenting the process step by step" could be a lot
of things. Is it a tutorial? Is it an interesting discussion of emulation that
uses the construction of one to frame that discussion? It is device specific?
Is it about that device or is it about all devices, again framing things?
The book itself sounds fine. The way you're selling the book (both on here and
on LearnPub) could be improved. You need to decide what the point is REALLY
meant to be, sure the theme is emulators, but if you have to describe it
without using the word emulators or talking about any specific tech, how would
that sound (e.g. "educational," "history," etc).
~~~
cpro
Thanks! You are absolutely right. The book is still taking shape and there is
a lot that is unclear.
I certainly have a lot of decisions I need to make on the structure of the
book and how to make the purpose of the book more clear.
In my mind the book is code-heavy and first goes through the design and
implementation of your own virtual machine.
The book then builds on top of the custom virtual machine with more
techniques/architecture (changing the main loop from a classic switch
statement to a jump table, discussing dynamic (just in time) compilation,
static recompilation approaches etc).
The ultimate goal is to take all of the design and approaches and build an
emulator to spec that runs games you can find around the net. In particular,
the Chip-8 system because the size of the project would be good for the book.
I think it would be great to make the book more general than
emulation/emulator development but at the same time I want to make it clear if
you are a person interested in making emulators (like I was) then this is a
book that will help you do that.
------
archimedespi
Yes, I would love a book about emulation!
------
seebreeze
I would be interested in a book on that.
~~~
cpro
Thanks for the feedback-- and out of curiosity, have you ever built an
emulator before?
~~~
seebreeze
Nope, but I think it would be cool to try and build one.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Please suggest a Facebook Connect gem/plugin for RoR - blizkreeg
Hi HN folks,<p>I'm integrating Facebook Connect into my Rails app and have been looking at various plugins in Rails. There seem to be three of them that are popular<p>- rfacebook (not maintained anymore?)
- facebooker
- facebook-rails<p>Time is a bit constrained so I don't have the liberty to try and evaluate each of them. I started with rfacebook but ran into many issues and I couldn't find proper help online.<p>What have you used? Which one would you recommend?
======
tobyhede
I use facebooker - it's under active development and has generally kept pace
with the changes to the FB platform.
I started using rfacebook several years ago but made the switch to facebooker
- the rfscebook author has announced his intention to discontinue in favour of
facebooker.
~~~
blizkreeg
Thanks. Facebooker seems to be the de facto choice.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What Does the HN Community Think of Burst (Green Crypto)? - npguy
Naturally decentralized, Energy efficient, Infinitely Scalable, is the claim.
======
PixelPaul
Why do we need or want it?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: A library to add a command promp (and telnet) to your programs - buserror
https://github.com/buserror/libmish
======
j1elo
Given the explanation from the Security section (i.e. " _libmish is really
made for developement purpose_ "), it might make more sense that telnet access
is _disabled_ by default and only enabled with something like _MISH_ON=1_.
Otherwise, this becomes yet another thing to disable upon deployment, chances
are people will forget they used this during development and production code
will get deployed without the variable to disable telnet.
------
buserror
This is a "C19 lockdown project" \-- I always want that feature in long
running processes: quick way to do introspection in a program without having
to create a whole subsystem for it. Also, a way to 'connect' back in,
especially for programs that don't log anything.
Demo is in C, but it shouldnt be too hard to add bindings for other languages.
This is very fresh paint, it had a demo of "one" in one of my other program,
so I do expect the odd issue!
~~~
ggerganov
Nice little project! I did something similar [0], but instead of telnet, the
lib opens a websocket and you connect with your browser.
[0] -
[https://github.com/ggerganov/incppect](https://github.com/ggerganov/incppect)
------
skissane
> 'telnet' on linux doesn't handle UNIX sockets
Someone should write a patch to fix that. There is no reason why the telnet
protocol can't be used over UNIX domain sockets.
As you note, telnet has some advantages over socat/netcat/etc, e.g. the
Negotiate About Window Size (NAWS) option can be used to notify terminal
resize events (SIGWINCH).
One could also register and implement a telnet authentication type [1] to
trigger authentication via SCM_CREDENTIALS. The server could use this to
confirm the client has the expected UID/GID.
[1] [https://www.iana.org/assignments/telnet-options/telnet-
optio...](https://www.iana.org/assignments/telnet-options/telnet-
options.xhtml#telnet-options-4)
~~~
buserror
Good idea, altho I will have to check if busybox telnet for example supports
it.
~~~
skissane
busybox telnet and busybox telnetd both support Unix domain sockets. As in
this example:
sudo busybox telnetd -b local:/telnetd.sock
busybox telnet local:/telnetd.sock
Then you can log in over telnet over Unix domain socket.
HOWEVER, this only works if busybox is built with CONFIG_FEATURE_UNIX_LOCAL=y.
And normally, busybox isn't built with that enabled. It is one of the few
features which "make defconfig" doesn't enable.
I wonder if busybox devs could be convinced to change defconfig to set
CONFIG_FEATURE_UNIX_LOCAL=y? Their FAQ [1] says defconfig "enables all
functionality except special purpose things like selinux or debugging support
which would reduce the portability of the resulting binary". I don't think
AF_UNIX/AF_LOCAL is really a "special purpose thing".
(CONFIG_FEATURE_UNIX_LOCAL turns on AF_UNIX support for all relevant busybox
networking commands, it isn't telnet specific.)
Of course, their telnet client doesn't support my SCM_CREDENTIALS as a telnet
auth option idea either. The busybox code is reasonably clean so it wouldn't
be hard to add it to their telnet client, even their telnetd just for testing
(can't say the same for netkit-telnet, which is default telnet client/server
on Debian/Ubuntu). Not sure if the busybox developers would be willing to
accept such a random feature though.
PS: telnet/telnetd in Alpine Linux are compiled with
CONFIG_FEATURE_UNIX_LOCAL=y. However, the default busybox in Alpine 3.7 and
above doesn't include telnet/telnetd. You can install them though with "apk
add busybox-extras"
PPS: on macOS, Homebrew's telnet also supports telnet to Unix domain sockets,
e.g. telnet /tmp/telnetd.sock.
[1]
[https://www.busybox.net/FAQ.html#configure](https://www.busybox.net/FAQ.html#configure)
------
p4bl0
The first thing I thought of is "I could use this to telnet into long running
computation processes and force them to flush those buffers to see where
they're at and how it goes". This use case alone make this kind of thing
worthy :).
~~~
dspillett
Some tools respond to a Unix signal
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(IPC)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_\(IPC\)))
this way, usually SIGUSR1 or SIGUSR2 though I've seen SIGCONT used too. SIGINT
also, though that feels wrong to me as it circumvents the commonly expected
response to ctrl-c.
~~~
p4bl0
Yes that's actually what I did for my last long running jobs: I trapped
SIGUSR1 so that when my process receives it it flushes its buffers.
------
dpenguin
Cool! You could provide a read line-based command line interface with server
or client driven completions to make it even more ready to use.
~~~
jddj
Along this line, there are some open source MUD clients around which are
(naturally) entirely telnet focused and embed lua, regex, aliases and usually
their own extensible UI frameworks.
------
eqvinox
For comparison, FRRouting has 25 year old CLI code:
[https://github.com/FRRouting/frr/blob/master/doc/developer/c...](https://github.com/FRRouting/frr/blob/master/doc/developer/cli.rst)
[https://github.com/FRRouting/frr/blob/master/lib/command.c](https://github.com/FRRouting/frr/blob/master/lib/command.c)
(+ other files nearby)
looks like this:
DEFUN (show_version,
show_version_cmd,
"show version",
SHOW_STR
"Displays zebra version\n")
{ ... }
install_element(VIEW_NODE, &show_version_cmd);
self-registering commands (__attribute__((constructor))) are on the TODO list.
On the other hand we have automatic parameter parsing into proper C types
(look for "DEFPY" in the code/docs.)
disclaimer: I conceived and implemented DEFPY.
------
fomojola
Nice: typically you can also embed a web interface that is only available on
localhost, but the telnet-style interface can be handy too.
------
tn1
If you want to access this remotely and telnet by itself won't do, remember
that setting up SSH tunneling is very easy!
~~~
neverartful
Good suggestion! Insecure protocols routed through secure protocols are always
an option. Tip for those who do this in production - add sufficient
documentation/training so that the new guy on the team knows about it.
------
jonahbenton
Nice- obligatory mention that this is old hat in languages with REPLs. In
Clojure, shipping to production with a REPL port (running over an HTTPS
websocket, only accessible from a bastion host) is common practice and saves a
lot of work making ad hoc admin tools and troubleshooting from logs.
------
mishoo
Now add a Common Lisp compiler to it and you reinvented technology from the
80'es. :-)
~~~
hnlmorg
If you want to get pedantic then clear text consoles are the core concept
behind time sharing systems, the methodology behind Multics and UNIX, and thus
pre-dates LISP Machines by decades (we all stand on the shoulders of giants).
But that doesn't mean there isn't still value in someone writing a new library
and sharing it with the community.
~~~
lispm
Interactive LISP consoles were used before UNIX or Multics existed.
~~~
hnlmorg
Indeed however to be analogous with the submission those consoles would still
need to be running on a time sharing system like I described.
Time sharing systems also pre-date UNIX and Multics, which is why I exampled
them as being operating systems that use the time sharing metaphor.
~~~
lispm
Right, Time sharing wasn't implemented yet at that time, when Lisp was having
its first interactive console in 1960. It was then also implemented on the
first time sharing operating systems.
~~~
hnlmorg
ok, let's put it another way, a LISP console is all well and good but systems
in 1960 weren't yet multi-tasking (or at least multi-tasking systems in 1960
were still rare) so you couldn't have a LISP process running as one thread and
query it's running state from another.
The reason I keep hammering on about time sharing is because they largely came
hand in hand, time sharing systems needed to support multi-tasking whereas
single user systems didn't (you still see echoes of this in the 80s with CP/M,
DOS and 8-bit micros running BASIC). In fact if you look at the history of
multi-tasking it roughly follows the same time line and lineage as the uptake
of time sharing systems (around mid '60s IIRC). Before then you'd have to stop
the execution of one program before you could start execution on another.
I know some "LISPians" like to think everything in computing eventually leads
back to LISP but that's not always the case (and I say that as a big fan of
the language myself).
~~~
lispm
One might just write a main loop, which takes Lisp expressions (or other
input) from two or more different terminals and executes each expression
interleaved. Those were not 'concurrent programs' which shared some state, but
function calls within the same Lisp system, using an interactive execution
loop serving several I/O devices. An early (mid 60s) application domain would
be multi-player games over terminals controlled from a single process.
Lisp also has the idea of break loops, which halt the current execution (for
example triggered by some kind of interrupt), allow interaction with the
program state and then let one continue the program in some way. Thus one
would not need to attach a debugger I/O loop from another process, but the
debugger repl would be a part of the running program and could be called on
demand.
That you 'know some "LISPians" like to think everything in computing
eventually leads back to LISP but that's not always the case' doesn't
invalidate the fact that Lisp systems were running on many of the early
computers & operating systems from 1960 onwards and followed their evolution.
Thus at least some interesting stuff has been done very early in Lisp, too.
~~~
hnlmorg
> _One might just write a main loop, which takes Lisp expressions (or other
> input) from two or more different terminals and executes each expression
> interleaved._
Pre-time sharing systems weren't multi-terminal. Hence why I keep coming back
to time sharing.
Also your main loop example could be done in assembly, FORTRAN, BASIC, Pascal
and C, two of which also pre-date LISP. There's nothing uniquely LISP about
writing a polling loop.
Job control et al and multi-terminal mainframes are something very much born
out of time sharing. You could use LISP to write your application that would
run atop of that time sharing system if you wanted but you could also write
that same application in a bunch of other languages too (assuming you had a
compiler for that machine). And bare in mind around this time you could still
physically inspect the state of paused program on a fair amount of single
process systems (and those you couldn't would often punch out verbose log of
its running state to tape).
> _An early (mid 60s) application domain_
By the mid 60s you had time sharing systems. Your argument was that LISP was
doing this before then.
> _That you 'know some "LISPians" like to think everything in computing
> eventually leads back to LISP but that's not always the case' doesn't
> invalidate the fact that Lisp systems were running on many of the early
> computers & operating systems from 1960 onwards and followed their
> evolution. Thus at least some interesting stuff has been done very early in
> Lisp, too._
I completely agree but you're attributing credit to LISP for something that
isn't a language-specific feature. At least the OP was referencing a computing
platform.
Anyway, this whole conversation was ridiculous from the outset and a massive
distraction to the submission that sparked it. It doesn't really matter what
came first; the only reason I even commented was to illustrate that we're all
standing on the shoulders of giants so it's pointless mocking a submission for
being similar in design to tech that pre-dates it. It's ironic that post lead
to an argument about what came first.
~~~
lispm
> main loop example could be done in assembly
'Could' is the word. My example was that it was actually done to have built-in
command loops and the building blocks for those (so that they could be used in
programs), which could be invoked on demand while a program was running.
> it's pointless mocking a submission for being similar in design
I'm not mocking the submission. The feature is quite valuable and interacting
with running software via command loops is great.
~~~
hnlmorg
> _' Could' is the word._
Ok, "was" then. Operating systems were originally written in assembly and you
can't write an operating system without some kind of hardware polling and
command loops (even in the days before multi-tasking systems).
Even earlier computers in the days before operating systems would have command
loops written in giant rings of punched sheets that would slowly spin round on
reels like a cambelt. So this isn't even an innovation that was born from
assembly, let alone any high level language.
I honestly do get what you're saying and I'm not trying to dismiss your point
that people did this kind of stuff in LISP but what you need to understand is
that people did this in a great number of different ways, in different
languages and even mechanically too.
------
neverartful
I have an existing use case for this. One of the music players that I use a
lot is command line based and I start it to run with shuffle-play (i.e., play
songs randomly). Sometimes the song chosen isn't something I want to listen to
at that time. However, I don't have a nice way of skipping/advancing the
currently playing song. If I really want to skip the song I have to Ctrl-C out
of it and restart it. I was going to add signal handlers for SIGUSR1, but I
didn't know how to do this in Python.
Adding a library such as this one, I could also enhance to alter queued up
songs.
~~~
ComodoHacker
Try mpd or VLC with telnet interface.
~~~
neverartful
Thanks for mpd suggestion. I had not heard of it before and it appears to be
exactly what I want.
------
msravi
I write automated trading algos for my own trading, and invariably put in a
"command line interface" so I can control variables during trading without
having to restart. I don't know if this is the normal thing to do, but I just
read the variables from a mysql table at some logical point in the program
loop, where changing it is "safe". The CLI is then simply about connecting to
the DB and changing those variables using standard SQL statements... I guess
the "right" way would be to build a proper (G)UI to handle this, but hey, it
works.
~~~
tyingq
In the Java world, it's very common to use JMX for that, and there are several
JMX clients to read/set variables, watch logs, etc.
~~~
neverartful
I too thought of JMX when reading through comments. I've always thought that
JMX was underrated.
------
cheez
I feel like this should be simpler:
MISH_CMD_NAMES(set, "set");
MISH_CMD_HELP(set,
"set 'cnt' variable",
"test command for libmish!");
MISH_CMD_REGISTER(set, _test_set_cnt);
Should be
MISH_CMD(set,
_test_set_cnt,
"set 'cnt' variable",
"test command for libmish!")
Which can expand as needed.
~~~
buserror
Yes, I like the single macro, but that doesn't handle the multiple possible
names, and multiple lines of help... but I agree, I probably will add a single
alias for simple cases.
------
jhallenworld
__attribute__((constructor,used))
This is very clever.. in my CLI I use a dedicated section to build a command
table, but the linker script often has to be modified for this to work. The
above avoids the need to change the linker script at all (but you do need an
init function, which I don't..). It means you have to compile as C++, right?
~~~
lunixbochs
constructor works fine in C as with GCC/clang. It links down to
.init/.init_array on ELF (though all the linker cares about is PT_DYNAMIC and
DT_INIT / DT_INIT_ARRAY)
------
ktpsns
For all the people who complain about telnet: If it would use Unix domain
sockets, the whole system would rebuild what you can do with ordinary
stdin/stdout and GNU screen or tmux. I think the network transparency is a
feature of this library.
~~~
aargh_aargh
Can you please elaborate?
~~~
ktpsns
GNU Screen and tmux are popular terminal multiplexers. One of the central
features of such command line programs are to detach sessions from the actual
user terminal emulators. The multiplexer is then running in the background,
collecting stdout/stderr of the running shells and programs. When the user
reconnects (this is typically not network transparent, but there are
"extensions" such as [https://tmate.io/](https://tmate.io/)), she can
immediately continue to interact with the programs.
------
VadimPR
You could then automate tasks in your program with a scriptable telnet client
([https://github.com/mudlet/mudlet](https://github.com/mudlet/mudlet))
(disclosure, I'm on the dev team)
------
amelius
Be aware that random websites can access localhost through your browser.
~~~
sadfklsjlkjwt
Can they? I thought this recent issue was related only to websockets?
------
Quarrel
Very nice.
Now just need a small wrapper around ptrace to inject the library and call
mish_prepare(0), so can just dynamically add it as needed to running programs.
------
andybak
Should the title not specify "to your own C programs" or similar?
Or if it is more widely applicable then how would it work with non-C programs?
------
brockrockman
I feel like this hits Tcl's use case pretty well, too. Old but not forgotten.
------
antoineMoPa
Can't complain about the security; there is no security.
------
jbverschoor
Oh my..
So we have COM, WCF, AppleScript/OSA, heck, we used to use two connections
with FTP. One data, one control.
Nevertheless. it's nice if it's easily implementable.
~~~
michaelmcmillan
I thought we still used two connections with FTP?
~~~
buserror
Not in PASV mode, which is the only mode supported these days.
~~~
0x0
PASV is still two connections, it just swaps around who's connecting to who.
------
TedDoesntTalk
Nice job, but do you know about Prometheus?
[https://prometheus.io/](https://prometheus.io/)
~~~
derision
prometheus is completely different
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
RxNDA.com: Painless Commercial NDAs Online - kemitchell
https://rxnda.com
======
rmgraham
There's something about the verbose text-only UI that just screams "written by
a lawyer". The copy is not even objectively that wordy, it just feels like it
started as legalese and was pared down to this instead of starting with a
blank page and adding all the popular SaaS-landing-page tropes.
I like it.
~~~
kemitchell
This is a very simple, if somewhat specialized, device. I fought myself to
make it that way, and I'll fight to keep it that way. Using it should feel
like using a quality can opener.
Fundamentally, the software doesn't matter much. Are the forms good? Are they
easy to review? Are the terms of use clear and reasonable? Does the signature
mechanism work? Are the folks and systems behind it resisting the pressure to
horde my data and do creepy things with it?
I think slick SaaS marketing would make me more suspicious, not less, that I
wouldn't like the answers to some of those questions.
------
alistproducer2
I created a tool that's very similar. Https://sendnda.online I'd be interested
in comparing notes. After I built it I lost interest in marketing it. What's
your stack look like?
~~~
kemitchell
Hadn't seen sendnda.online. I'll have a look.
The "stack", methinks, is pretty irrelevant. I did mine in plain Node.js.
Storage to SSD filesystem. JS mostly so I could reuse some open-source
contract automation work I'd done under the Common Form umbrella.
~~~
alistproducer2
I used WordPress. I leaned a lot on plugins which helped keep my defense time
down to around 10 days.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Shocking Way (Really) to Break Bad Habits - maneesh
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/a-shocking-way-really-to-break-bad-habits/?_r=0®ister=facebook
======
maneesh
This article is from earlier this year, but admin @dang mentioned that I
should repost it, with a link to the comment thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13266386](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13266386)
I'm the founder of Pavlok, and we've helped thousands of people quit their bad
habits and wake up earlier. Our company has a strict metric of 'habits over
money' \--- so I'm happy to help anyone with their behavior change goals.
Hacker News has been a big part of my life, so I would be honored to help
anyone here with their goals in habit change.
What are your goals / New Year's Resolutions?
~~~
SCdF
It would be great if you didn't post this with a click bait title. It might be
stupid, but on principle I'm not going to read it.
~~~
DrScump
He used the published title and, given the content, it isn't as clickbaity as
it appears (electric shock is the mechanism discussed).
------
0xdeadbeefbabe
> “Every time I took a bite, I zapped myself,” she said. “I did it five times
> on the first night, two times on the second night, and by the third day I
> didn’t have any cravings anymore.”
Really? Why is this better than inflicting other kinds of pain on yourself
like flicking a rubber band, or pricking your finger? Where do you get
motivation to even zap yourself at all?
~~~
vorotato
If you ever have tried to quit smoking, there is a strong motivation. That
being said I found this archaic technique useless. My brain realized it could
"buy" the smokes for pain, and just factored in the cost along with the other
costs.
------
revicon
Im interested in forming a good habit instead (remembering to log all my meals
on my fitness pal). There isn't a "bad" behavior to trigger one of these zaps,
unless you count hitting the end of the day without meals logged or something
like that, but that feels too far removed to have the necessary subliminal
effect.
------
peddamat
I believe I remember a similar product on Shark Tank. From memory, I believe
it was an unfortunate pitch. What differentiates this product?
~~~
grzm
It's the same product: [https://buy.pavlok.com/pages/saw-us-on-shark-
tank](https://buy.pavlok.com/pages/saw-us-on-shark-tank)
------
dakrootie
He hired a woman to smack him? I would've done it for free.
~~~
maneesh
I'll hire you!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What Marissa Mayer Brought to Yahoo That Can’t Be Bought or Sold - jessaustin
https://medium.com/@jelenawoehr/what-marissa-mayer-brought-to-yahoo-that-cant-be-bought-or-sold-4ee82382e4ee
======
1024core
Heh, I remember Jelena from discussion on devel-random. I would like to
correct (mildly) a couple of anecdotes in her article, because I was there and
closer.
> _A friend relayed this story: The Sunnyvale campus had a building with
> redundant turnstiles, which required a badge scan seconds after employees
> had scanned their badges to open the main doors. People complained about it
> when the building was remodeled years before, and kept complaining through
> several CEOs. After Marissa read an email griping about the turnstiles, they
> were gone the next day._
I remember it a little differently. This was Building D, where the executives
sit. Before Marissa got there, there were plans to put an additional set of
card-activated turnstiles inside the door. (This building is also where the
Yahoo store is, and the main reception desk). Yahoo was plagued with leaks,
and some people thought that adding an additional turnstile will keep people
from tailgating in.
When Marissa got there, she took one look at the turnstiles and said, "this is
stupid", and ordered them removed. Not only that: there were card-activated
gates in the parking lots, and those were gone too immediately. She didn't
want barriers to coming in to work.
And about devel-random, or "d-r": I was pretty active on that. No one told
Marissa about d-r, but just a couple of days after she got there, on a
Saturday IIRC, she responded to someone on d-r. This sent shockwaves
throughout the upper echelons, and soon senior management were clamoring to
get on d-r. Most of them dropped out, exhausted by the volume; but she stuck
around.
Also: she used to use pine(1) to read her emails. That increased her stature
in my eyes, and those of quite a few other engineers.
It's the small things that mattered a lot to the battered egos at Yahoo; and
Marissa did a lot of good. She was the best CEO of all the ones Yahoo had
seen, bar none (OK, I wasn't around during Koogle's tenure).
~~~
outworlder
> Also: she used to use pine(1) to read her emails. That increased her stature
> in my eyes, and those of quite a few other engineers.
Ok, now that is amazing. That speaks more about her culture and background
than a hundred random actions.
~~~
nsxwolf
Oh wow! She used pine! Freakin' pine! She sent the company down the tubes,
but... holy shit did she ever read her emails in a terminal!
Also: Way to dogfood Yahoo Mail. Shows how much faith you have in your own
products - as CEO no less.
~~~
arenaninja
I mean, I get your point on pine, but I think the jury is still out on whether
she was the cause for Yahoo's demise. I think the media definitely overhyped
her, but Yahoo was in pretty dire straits when she took over in 2012
~~~
nsxwolf
True, but, it seems that much like US presidents, CEOs want all the credit for
good results and excuses for the bad ones.
~~~
nostrademons
It'd probably be a more accurate version of reality to accept that CEOs and
Presidents have relatively little to do with either kind of results. That'd
require that we give up the very human tendency to believe in Great People and
force us to believe in Ordinary People involved with Great Things.
------
1024core
It makes me angry and sad to see all the sniping about her $200M (or
thereabouts) earnings over 4 years. The spotlight has always been on her, and
her failings are magnified beyond reason. Is it because she's young woman and
pretty?
I was at Yahoo from 2004 through 2015. I saw some seriously stupid CEOs. One
of them being Terry Semel. He made more than $200M in just one year (and even
more, according to rumors). Here's an article from around that time; I wish I
had time to dig up more: [https://3qdigital.com/analytics/terry-semel-you-
owe-1000-yah...](https://3qdigital.com/analytics/terry-semel-you-
owe-1000-yahoo-employees-200-million/)
But you never hear his name ever brought up. Because he was a white, male CEO?
~~~
ebbv
> It makes me angry and sad to see all the sniping about her $200M (or
> thereabouts) earnings over 4 years
Why? That is $50mil/year which is an _insane_ amount of money for any one
person to receive. Yes you can point to tons of examples of people earning
even more, but that's still way more money than most people will ever see in
their lifetimes _per year_ to fail.
It's a total cop-out to say that "Well Yahoo was already failing when she came
in and nobody could turn it around!" She was hired to turn it around. She did
fail at the job she was hired to do. It doesn't matter if it was impossible,
she took it on and she's getting tons of money despite failing. For me her
compensation is one thing but the truly objectionable part is the $50mil
golden parachute. And it's not just her, tons of execs that fail at their jobs
get these golden parachutes and it's awful. She's just the latest high profile
example.
If I take a developer position at a company with terrible project/team
management, terrible culture, nasty legacy codebase, etc. and I do a bad job
I'm still going to get fired. I'm not going to get a massive golden parachute.
I _might_ get two weeks severance. I'm not going to get a full year's
severance.
Combine that cushy parachute with salary that is so out of sync with what the
average person makes and yeah, people are going to go "What the fuck?" It
shouldn't surprise you.
~~~
superuser2
>She's just the latest high profile example.
She's attracted an order of magnitude more vitriol than any of the other "tons
of execs." It's her that HN chooses to complain about. _It matters_ which
instances you choose to be vocal about.
And it's _extremely_ suspicious, to say the least, that an industry which
insists it has no sexism problem because men are just better at it, spends a
great deal of time and energy attacking a woman who presides over a collapse
but glosses over or barely acknowledges the men who have done the same.
~~~
bogomipz
That's a slippery slope right there. I don't care about Yahoo or celebrity CEO
culture at all. But I also feel like people should be able to express their
opinions on a CEO and not be worried that doing so constitutes being labeled a
sexist if the CEO happens to be a woman. There have been many males CEOs that
have been derided as well - Bezos, Jobs et al so lets keep this in
perspective. Star CEOs with their insanely outsized pay packages and their
carefully cultivated public images make them targets for derision, not their
sex.
~~~
ethbro
I think this issue the other poster is referring to is whether we should act
to decrease sexism (their argument) or ignore sexism (your argument).
There's no right answer, but the other commenter has a point that _if_ sexism
is what causes Mayer to appear more often in stories about underperforming
CEOs with exit packages (sexism), and we comment negatively on all stories of
the like (neutral), then we become complicit in generating a sexist culture.
Essentially because sexists chose the only things we saw to comment on in the
first place.
------
zekevermillion
From a non-insider perspective, it certainly looks as if MM accomplished the
mission. Stock price went up, and she locked it in with a well-timed sale. Her
compensation package appears to have been designed to produce exactly this
outcome. It's not Steve Jobs' return to Apple. But she did help the investors
salvage a respectable outcome.
~~~
collyw
Was it down to luck more than anything else? She made a few bets. Most failed.
One did spectacularly , yet seems to have very little to do with Yahoo as a
company.
~~~
zekevermillion
She inherited a depreciating asset in core yahoo, managed to hold the line on
further losses. She is also managing a "strategic transaction" that could go
very wrong if done poorly. I would guess that (if successful) this deal will
be thought of as a success, and probably comes as a relief to the board and
officers. But again, I only know what I read on the Internet which surely is
missing some important facts.
------
GuiA
_" if I’m ever in a position like Marissa’s, I want to be the kind of CEO who
answers emails from strangers six or seven levels down from herself at 1 AM on
a Sunday morning, even when she has a new baby in the house."_
I'm grateful for this article reminding me why I never really will fit in with
the techie fanatics. Yesterday I went home at 5p, after a very productive day,
and trimmed plants in my garden, not checking my work email until the next
day.
(Well maybe for $200M over 5 years you could convince me to do that. But then
it's back to books and gardening and developing pictures)
Also oddly reminiscent of this post from yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12168718](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12168718)
~~~
exelius
There's a certain workaholic personality that excels at executive-level
positions. I'm convinced they simply have better genetics than the rest of us
-- after 10 or so hours of work, my memory is garbage and I wouldn't feel
confident dealing with anything important but some people are totally fine.
Plus, you couldn't work that hard for any amount of money unless you loved the
work. I'm not sure I want to be a CEO for that reason -- I treasure the
ability to turn off 'work mode' for a little while every day.
~~~
GuiA
I work with high level executives at a well known company regularly. Most of
them are normal people. Hard working, smarter than the average? Sure.
Answering emails at 1am on a Sunday with a newborn? Certainly not. In fact, my
director just took a month off when his second child was born, and is taking
another month off soon.
There is no "better genetics" or "sleeping 4 hours a night". That's just the
media and tech echo chamber doing its thing.
~~~
exelius
I work with major company C-suite guys on a regular basis, and while not
_everyone_ is the "4 hours a night" type, they're definitely overrepresented.
Keep in mind I don't see this as a positive thing -- I think it's unhealthy
and sets a bad example for your employees. But there are some people who just
have more stamina, and that's something I've had to accept. I have less
stamina, so I need to be more effective with the time that I do have and
delegate work to others.
------
Lagged2Death
I'm no biz-geek, I probably can't name a dozen CEOs. But for years, MM's name
was called put in every critical mainstream headline about Yahoo, of which
there were many. I do not believe that's an accident. I do not believe a man
would have been treated the same way.
~~~
1024core
> I do not believe a man would have been treated the same way.
This. Larry Ellison fucks around on a sailboat. Larry is busy with "X" for
years. And no one bats an eye.
~~~
smacktoward
Oracle and Google both make astonishing amounts of money. Nobody (least of all
shareholders) is marching on their headquarters with torches and pitchforks.
So nobody cares what the leaders of those companies do with their time -- _so
long as their companies continue to make astonishing amounts of money._
If the money dries up, rest assured that the line of people demanding that the
leaders start paying attention to the business would rapidly become quite
long.
~~~
dexterdog
Exactly. Ellison seen on a mega boat tells you how well he is doing and thus
the company. MM answering low-level employee emails in the middle of the night
says she doesn't know what's going on.
------
pboutros
That's a good read. Just goes to show that it's important to remember people's
humanity, especially when all the cards are stacked against them. People have
said some really ugly stuff about MM.
~~~
mankash666
Yes- it's important to stay human while thousands of employees get laid off
and the CEO makes a few hundred million for the valiant effort of letting good
employees go
~~~
scient
"Good" tends to be very subjective. Actually good people rarely get let go,
unless there is a very good reason. At the same time almost everyone who gets
laid off thinks they are a very good employee, which obviously is not the
case.
And execs get paid for the expectations and responsibility. You are just being
salty right now.
~~~
bisby
Sometimes the reason doesn't need to be "good" in the sense that it's a great
reason, but in the sense that it was the right decision.
I worked as a engineer at a huge billion dollar company in a newly created
slot. There was 2 on the team and I was the third. Then massive layoffs.
Thousands of people let go. I was one of them. Was I "good people" ? I don't
know. I like to think I was, that's why I got the position. Of the 3 people on
the team, I was the right choice though, least experience with the company's
infrastructure, etc.
The real issue at hand was the disconnect between the team manager (who found
out he had to let me go the morning it happened and was quite upset about it)
and upper executives. Why was adding my position approved by upper executives
in the first place if they knew that a month later they would be laying off so
many, you would think they would have had a massive layoff of that size in the
works for more than just a few days.
So there was no "good reason" other than "cutting cost" but if someone had to
be let go, the 2 others on the team deserved the job more than me.
~~~
richman777
But that's the point. You weren't a "good" employee if you're judging on one
metric: experience with their infrastructure.
You were clearly good enough to get hired but all things considered you were
the correct person the let go.
The distinction, and you seem to understand, is that it wasn't a personal
thing. People say stuff like "let go of good people". What does being a good
person have anything to do with running a business?
Not saying any of this is right or wrong but more musing over what drives
business decisions and how people will often mix personal feelings into non-
personal decisions.
------
colmvp
While her great experiences illustrate a caring and hard-working person, I
still can't forget writeups describing someone who was unable to develop a
product strategy / roadmap in a timely manner, resulting in a lot of
miscommunication and execs left in limbo (see the Forbes article written in
early 2015).
There's no doubt that it was extremely hard to turn that ship around, so I'm
not at all attributing the company's failure to her. But as a product person,
at the end of the day, my best experiences with CEOs has never been about
whether they've rejuvenated a certain company culture but rather their ability
to help provide vision and strategy (among other things).
Furthermore:
> But I know that, if I’m ever in a position like Marissa’s, I want to be the
> kind of CEO who answers emails from strangers six or seven levels down from
> herself at 1 AM on a Sunday morning, even when she has a new baby in the
> house. I want to be the kind of person who has time to hear people out, even
> when they’re saying things that hurt me.
Honestly, I'm happy when my CEO answers e-mails at reasonable hours and has
work/life balance (as much as a CEO can get).
------
jelenaw
Thanks for all the great discussion here & thank you Jess for submitting my
article to HN. (In case anyone is curious, Medium currently credits this post
with 13,362 views on my Medium post.) I have another HN account--sadly
underutilized, I have to admit--but didn't want to tie it to my real name, so
here's a brand new baby account for this thread...
I'm glad to see a few comments here from other ex-Yahoos who felt the same
thrill I did when Marissa came to Yahoo. It really was like night and day.
I've seen a lot of discussion here, on Twitter and on Medium critiquing the
way I responded to Marissa's late-night email habits. For a lot of people it
seems late emails from an executive are a negative and demonstrates an
expectation that others also be on email at 1 AM. I was surprised by that
because I've always really enjoyed working for workaholic/fanatic CEOs, but I
understand because I've also encountered some toxic personalities who do use
late night email runs to demonstrate that they're "working harder" than
everyone else (when in reality they're only putting more work into playing the
game, not into deliverables). Because that was never remotely the case with
Marissa, I didn't even think about it while writing. With Marissa, hearing
from her late at night sent the message "I'm always thinking about what you
need from me," not, "I'm always thinking about what you should be doing FOR
me."
Of course, I'm a little bit of an unhealthy fanatic workaholic type myself,
which is definitely part of why Marissa is such a powerful role model for me.
She doesn't pretend that her sleeplessness or fanaticism is the most healthy
or balanced way to live, and she doesn't advise others to be exactly like her.
She just demonstrates that being naturally that sort of person is survivable
and is compatible with having love and happiness in your life. That alone was
huge for me. If I can be who I authentically am and survive it and have people
around me who love me anyway, even if I shorten my life and don't necessarily
have human relationships that are AS fulfilling as a Type B personality might
be able to have, I'm ok with that outcome.
------
boterock
I have to admit that when she started in Yahoo, they tried to do their best to
not suck that much, but I think it was too late. In a time where internet and
word of mouth can punish very hard bad PR/bad UX, they tried with Tumblr
showing they weren't going to screw up anymore, but still they couldn't go
back to what they were before.
~~~
burkaman
Yeah, Marissa Mayer is how I was first introduced to the concept of the glass
cliff:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff).
I don't think she ever had a chance.
~~~
seanalltogether
This explains the seemingly easy path Theresa May had to becoming Prime
Minister following the Brexit vote.
~~~
burkaman
It's definitely a reasonable explanation. Her only real opponent was a woman
as well.
~~~
twblalock
Mainly because her potential male opponents stabbed each other in the back
until they were no longer viable.
------
bdavisx
_Her performance ranking program was so badly implemented by Yahoo’s_ ugly
layers of middle management _that it deserved every bit of the mocking and
criticism it got, both on devel-random and in the tech press._
I think one thing that could possibly "save" Yahoo would be to fire every
single middle manager and above immediately (and probably most of the 1st line
management as well), and then rebuild the management from the ground up.
Yes, Yahoo would be a mess for a year or more, but it already is a mess and
has been for years - and it seems like a common thread is the entrenched
management that isn't willing to change and has a lot of incompetency. Time to
throw out the baby with the bath water.
~~~
jessaustin
Haha it would be great to see a troubled company try that. One suspects that
we'd _hear_ it more than see it however, as the great wailing and gnashing of
teeth by PHBs would be audible on other continents. It would have to be a
completely vendor-driven company, however... er, excuse me, "a company that
concentrated on its core competencies". After all, the paychecks still have to
go out, for the peons left after the great firing, and you can't just give the
bank accounts to some random person.
------
wehadfun
Off topic but what would the selling price for Yahoo have to be for MM to be
considered a success? 20B, 100B,..
~~~
scholia
Success would have been growing revenues, instead of watching them decline.
Success would have been at least one really successful mobile app.
Success would have been not selling Yahoo....
~~~
stinkytaco
Yahoo is a publicly traded company. Selling Yahoo went very well for the
shareholders and the first rule for any publicly traded company is to maximize
shareholder value.
I think it's very clear that the goal when she was hired was to sell the
company and get the shareholder's some payout. Considering where the company
was when she came in, I'd say she did an admirable job at this.
You might say that's not success, but I think the (shareholder elected) board
had the company on that trajectory before she was hired. She came in to finish
the job.
~~~
excitom
> the first rule for any publicly traded company is to maximize shareholder
> value.
It always bothers me to see this, as I feel it is the reason many companies
decline. The first rule should be "make the customers happy" and the second
rule should be "keep the employees happy" since happy employees help implement
the first rule. If rule one and two are achieved then as a side effect
shareholder value is maximized.
~~~
iopq
>The first rule should be "make the customers happy" and the second rule
should be "keep the employees happy"
if you burn through your cash reserves doing those things and now you don't
have any money, that doesn't do anything for you since you burned all your
cash - even if employees and customers are happy
the first rule should be "make money", the second rule should be "spend less
money than you make"
if those two are achieved, THEN shareholder value is maximized
~~~
pfarnsworth
Not true. Sometimes shareholders want metrics like Return on Equity, which
forces the hand of management to sell profitable parts of the business... but
not profitable enough. That's the insanity of trying to maximize shareholder
value.
~~~
twblalock
That's only insane if you assume the success of the business is the goal,
rather than the success of the shareholders.
~~~
pfarnsworth
Success of the business and success of the shareholders is not a zero-sum
game. You can usually have both.
What is insane is sacrificing the success of the business for the success of
shareholders. That affects employees, and you end up getting situations where
entire towns get fucked because the profitable-but-not-profitable-factory gets
shut down because of some obscure metric.
~~~
stinkytaco
I think a culture has developed -- in the United States specifically -- where
we expect companies to act according to some undefined ethical principle.
We're upset when they don't pay taxes, close factories, pollute the
environment or whatever. The problem is these principles are always moving
goalposts and more often than not, immeasurable. A business exists to make
money. That is a concrete and measurable goal and thus one that the
organization is made to pursue. If a business it not in it to make money, it's
something else: perhaps a non-profit, an NGO, a union, a cooperative, etc.
There are places for organizations that don't exist to make money, but
publicly traded exchanges are not it.
It's really the responsibility of communities to plan, governments to regulate
and enforce and people to rationally choose the best for themselves and their
community. As pointed out above, there are a variety of ways to do this, it's
a matter of choosing the right ones.
------
mdip
Interesting discussion and I wanted to call out a particular part: The CEO's
willingness and constancy in responding to employees.
I worked at Global Crossing during the entire time that John Legere (of
T-Mobile fame) was CEO and he had a very similar policy, though I can't say
for sure he didn't fire folks for writing him things he didn't like[0]. He
swore up and down that he reads every message sent to him and that employees
are always welcome to write him. I did so in the later evening on Christmas
Eve (I'll admit I had a few beers in me) about some finishing touches I was
putting on an application we were deploying to production the following week.
I received a reply just after midnight on Christmas, clearly sent from a
Blackberry. I can't remember the contents (it was something along the lines of
"nice work") but I remember feeling quite good that the CEO was willing to
take some time to reply to me on a holiday at a very odd hour.
As "employee engagement" goes, this certainly improved mine.
[0] I honestly don't know. Global Crossing had a total of "zero" good years in
that every six months or so another 10% of the staff would be let go. Did some
of that originate from a bad message sent to the CEO? No idea, but they were
looking for reasons to get rid of anyone they could throughout my tenure.
Though I'd written him a few times, I'd written him a few times but never in a
manner that would have had cause to get me fired.
------
fragola
IMO Yahoo was just unfortunately not salvageable and MM gets a lot of
criticism from a lot of directions (I've seen a lot of articles by women
criticizing her for not taking "enough" maternity leave, for example). I feel
like she's just a favorite target.
[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/03/marissa-
may...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/03/marissa-mayer-s-two-
week-maternity-leave-is-bullsh-t.html)
------
ecmermaid
Always several sides to any story - super appreciated this one. Whether
Marissa failed or not - this piece was well written and worth the read.
------
urmish
> Yahoo may be a failure but Marissa was a success
This is low tier bait. I am convinced the author is trying to ruse anyone who
reads his garbage post.
------
caycep
The problem with this is: this means MM is a very good executive regarding
technical details, daily operations and the like. However, she wasn't hired to
be HR or COO. She was hired to be CEO, in a company that faced deep
existential challenges in a market that was rapidly making its products
irrelevant. When she took over, I wasn't sure what value Yahoo really provided
other than a "yet another portal and email provider" type of thing, far from
being a peer of FB and Google that it aspired to be. The company needed to
execute a pivot of epic proportions and in this, we have heard very little.
And maybe there were some projects in their skunk works that may yet get
written about, which never saw the light of day.
Morale of the troops? great. Making employees' lives better? great. But it
doesn't mean squat if your company still doesn't have a viable product at the
end of the day...
------
the_improbable
I was a Yahoo for a couple of years before getting caught up in the recent
layoffs. When I talk about my time there, I use the term "organizational
inertia". It's amazing how people will fight for products, methodologies, and
workflows that are clearly not going to be feasible if the company is going to
survive. A company that's been around for as long as Yahoo has, and has locked
in to a certain way of doing things, is hard to turn around no matter how good
the CEO is.
------
forgetsusername
> _the company was also stacked with some of the least motivated._
Every company has unmotivated people for the CEO to deal with. Yahoo is not
unique in this regard.
------
uvince
"on a Saturday IIRC, she responded to someone on d-r. This sent shockwaves
throughout the upper echelons, and soon senior management were clamoring to
get on d-r."
So, basically Marissa ruined devel-random, too? Nice. Is there anything
Marissa can't do?
------
bastijn
Great story, thanks for the different perspective on things. I did giggle at
the title here on HN though.
"... That cannot be bought."
I guess MM, being an acquired CEO could be considered bought. It just didn't
give the result they wanted..
------
bitL
Sorry, so she raised comfort of some employees (which developer "on a mission
to save a company" really needs free food instead of interesting challenges?)
and decreased the ability to hire top talent by introducing other employee-
unfriendly policies like banning remote work, i.e. working while living on
Hawaii, giving superb motivation to stay at Yahoo and see it prosper. The rest
seems more like a COO would do and not a strategic CEO. It is still fact that
a little team of 5 can accomplish huge things, yet they weren't able to
recruit any, while blowing insane money on useless acquihires. And also
looking at technical decisions like replacing Netty with node.js in their
infrastructure and resulting 4x slowdown and probably increasing operating
costs reeks of following useless fads and really useless management.
~~~
cocktailpeanuts
I may get downvoted for saying this since it's not fashionable to say things
like this but I will anyway:
When a company is going down, the type of people you need is people who are
enthusiastic and team players. The last type of people you need are competent
yet not so much of a team player. It's because:
1\. Pampering these people will only result in lowering rest of the team's
morale. 2\. When a company is going down, a 10x or 100x or even 1000x
developer (whatever that means) won't be able to save the company alone.
In a sense I think she was trying to filter out people who were not "all-in",
because that's what it takes for a sinking ship to have even 1% chance of
coming back up.
~~~
bitL
I believe what you actually need is to hire 2-3 teams of 10x
developers/artists including a few visionaires and let them figure out
projects that might one day become cash cows keeping company afloat (and give
them massive stake in success). You need to both expose them to problems of
the company so that they feel pressure as well as completely isolate them from
toxic culture that brought down your company, so that they can give an all-out
effort.
Imagine if that lone guy at Microsoft didn't figure out trick with 286
protected mode that allowed Windows to survive and wasn't heard by top
management - we would all be running OS/2 10 now.
~~~
sluukkonen
> Imagine if that lone guy at Microsoft didn't figure out trick with 286
> protected mode that allowed Windows to survive and wasn't heard by top
> management - we would all be running OS/2 10 now.
I haven't heard this story before. Got a link?
~~~
f393921
I believe this is it:
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/larryosterman/2005/02/08/fa...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/larryosterman/2005/02/08/faster-
syscall-trap-redux/)
The IBM way required IBM BIOS and an absurdly long time (as I recalled it was
hundreds of milliseconds, not just milliseconds) to re-enter real mode.
The motivation was to be able to run DOS real-mode programs as well as
protected mode programs.
------
dudul
Do Yahoo employees really call themselves "Yahoos"?
~~~
a_small_island
No different than calling yourself a Googler.
~~~
bitwize
Which itself has silly variants, like Noogler gor new employees or Doogler for
dogs. (Google is, explicitly, a dog company. Dogs are welcome at Google
facilities. Cats are officially strongly deprecated.)
~~~
Practicality
Interesting given the number of cat videos this "dog" company distributes. ;)
~~~
RileyKyeden
They're cats. They have to feel they're unwelcome before they want to be
there.
------
tlogan
> Yahoo is a Failure, but Marissa is a Success
I have to be living in some alternate universe. Because in my universe, if you
do not accomplish the goal (revenue grow) you failed. It could that the goal
was too hard to achieve, maybe the goal was impossible to achieve, etc. But,
at end of the day, she failed.
And as result of her failure people will lose their jobs :(
~~~
mkagenius
> And as result of her failure people will lose their jobs
They will most probably get jobs again like they did earlier. Life is full of
ups and down, you can blame one person for that..but try not to.
~~~
pfarnsworth
She gets paid $50M/yr for the sole purpose of being held to blame and credit
for everything that happens.
------
ucaetano
I remember that is was usually claimed that Yahoo's valuation (net of
Alibaba's stake) was either zero or negative.
She was able to sell it for $5B.
That sounds like an amazing success story.
~~~
CptJamesCook
It turned out that after taxes and other factors, Yahoo's core value was worth
more. I doubt she had a significant effect on it, other than the ~700 mil loss
they took on Tumblr.
------
draw_down
I guess I don't think it's particularly good that she was an email junkie, to
the point of being on email a couple hours after giving birth? But beside that
I can understand why some took her as an inspirational figure.
------
lintiness
$200M for handing out free lunch, a self-esteem boost, a poorly implemented
personnel ranking scheme, and a few emails at weird hours ... sounds like a
pretty sweet deal. sign me up!
~~~
bbcbasic
You could use this same argument for any CEO. Pick 3 things then say $X m for
a b and c that's a pretty sweet deal. Sign me up.
~~~
lintiness
another non-reader. i picked out the main points the writer specified.
~~~
bbcbasic
I read it. My point is you can make the same class of argument - pick one or
two trivial achievements and a fuckup for almost any CEO or indeed
professional and make it sound like their job is easy.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Inventor Of ADHD's Deathbed Confession: "ADHD Is A Fictitious Disease" - josht
http://www.worldpublicunion.org/2013-03-27-NEWS-inventor-of-adhd-says-adhd-is-a-fictitious-disease.html
======
mikecane
The take from Snopes: <http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Digging into the Privacy Sandbox - feross
https://web.dev/digging-into-the-privacy-sandbox/
======
gundmc
Without detailed prior knowledge in the domain, it seems to make sense. I'm a
proponent of privacy-aware advertising online and think the free services
supported by advertising are a net positive.
That being said, I don't see how you can orchestrate such a shift among all of
the browser vendors. It's asking a lot of those dev teams to accommodate use
cases that they don't directly benefit from. I don't want this to be an
instance of Google throwing their weight around and forcing a major change
without some sort of consensus.
------
akersten
Why are we building this shit into the browser? Did we forget what user-agent
means? I really don't want my browser to be running a consensus algorithm for
doubleclick, or whatever the hell the turtledove proposal is.
This article makes it sound like advertisers having a hard time targeting
their ads is somehow bad for a user! I see that as a very good thing.
How about, we remove 3rd party cookies, and then _don 't do anything else_?
Even the name of this is gaslighting. Privacy sandbox? More like "A bunch of
APIs for advertisers to use, to profile your behavior with native support from
your browser, while telling you your privacy is improved because we don't do
it with scary cookies anymore." Not quite as catchy I guess.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Snappier, New Look Editor – CodeSandbox - bpierre
https://codesandbox.io/post/new-look-editor
======
GarethX
This update is really a ton of tiny things that improve the editor experience,
but mostly it's about laying the groundwork for what's to come. Still lots of
work to do
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How hard would it be to build js script that detects ad blocking - padseeker
Here's my question - Is it possible or realistic for content providers to add javascript to their own site to detect if ads are being blocked, and if so then block the user from seeing the content. Or making it extremely difficult.<p>Explanation - There have been a lot of stories talking about ad blockers for mobile devices. On one hand nearly all of us hate ads in our content AND it consumes data on our devices.<p>However I actually work for a traditional publishing media company, one that is seeing declining revenue from print and is increased use of web-based content, which means less money per viewer.<p>Most content providers have some sort of barrier, even if it is just for registration without paid subscription. Ads are used to make up for revenue lost of giving the content away for free by using advertising.<p>I realize that this would be easy to circumnavigate on a laptop, probably with just a firefox/chrome plugin. However that is not so easy on a mobile device.<p>I don't even know if this is a good idea, but I'm sympathetic to someone like Marco Arment. If you produce content in the hopes of making money and you don't want to charge your only realistic option is ads.
======
seren
I have already encountered website blocking content if an adblocker is
enabled.
A very quick google search should have shown you :
[https://github.com/sitexw/FuckAdBlock](https://github.com/sitexw/FuckAdBlock)
However, most of the time, I am reading some news, or blogs, if the content is
blocked, I just close the site and move on, I don't even bother whitelisting
the site. So I am not sure that apart from making a statement it is efficient.
It would somewhat work if you had really good and exclusive content.
~~~
padseeker
thanks I should have thought to google adblock detector
------
timbowhite
There are a number of scripts out there that detect adblock, for instance:
[https://github.com/sitexw/FuckAdBlock](https://github.com/sitexw/FuckAdBlock)
Then it's just a matter of using some basic JS to hide content, show a notice,
etc.
~~~
padseeker
thanks I should have thought to google adblock detector
------
omginternets
>If you produce content in the hopes of making money and you don't want to
charge your only realistic option is ads.
Which means you should be focusing on making ads that people want to consume.
Blocking adblockers rarely goes over well with users; few people are willing
to fiddle with their adblock settings for your (easily replaceable) content.
~~~
padseeker
I think it's a little delusional to believe that if you just serve up the
right ads people will tolerate it. There are plenty of people whose attitude
is "no ads", end of story.
Also you can't get better ads without learning more about each user. In other
words profiling, which no one likes either.
~~~
omginternets
>I think it's a little delusional to believe that if you just serve up the
right ads people will tolerate it.
I get your point, but I think it's symptomatic of the rigidity with which we
think about ads. I'm talking more about subtle product-placement than iFrames
with promotional content. Things like "sponsorships", especially when discrete
and upfront, tend to go over much better than ads.
>here are plenty of people whose attitude is "no ads", end of story.
And that's precisely why I think I'm right.
>Also you can't get better ads without learning more about each user. In other
words profiling, which no one likes either.
True, but pragmatically speaking, there aren't any (effective) profiling-
blockers. User profiling isn't exactly a _nuisance_ either, insofar as it
doesn't degrade the usability of a service.
Going after adblockers strikes me as fighting the symtoms, rather than the
cause, and irritating the bulk of one's clients in the process.
Either way, your problem is that your content is replaceable and people don't
want ads. How is blocking users an effective remedy?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Response to “Never Use Black” - oscar-the-horse
http://www.horsesaysinternet.com/design/never-user-black-bullshit/
======
davewicket
Why are you using a nearly unreadable letter 'k'?
~~~
oscar-the-horse
i've not written any posts on typography.
some may called the closed counter on the "k" charming, others unreadable.
me, i like to try out different typefaces. sorry if the free information
wasn't as readable as you'd like.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Caught Funding Slew of Right-Wing Front Groups - shrikant
http://www.progressive.org/google-caught-funding-slew-of-right-wing-front-groups
======
Uhhrrr
I guess the title is linkbait for progressives. Google disclosed this
information, so it's hard to see how that translates to "caught". And CATO and
Heritage make no bones about being libertarian and conservative, respectively.
They're hardly "front groups".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NYC housing court, created to protect tenants, has become a tool for landlords - danso
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/20/nyregion/nyc-affordable-housing.html
======
beisner
I'm curious, and maybe this is not the right forum for this kind of
discussion, but it seems to me at some level there's going to be a tradeoff
between the ability of current tenants to afford their current housing and
newcomers to afford housing. In markets like NYC, where demand is ever-
increasing and for various reasons supply cannot keep up with demand,
maintaining rent-controlled apartments necessarily drives prices higher
overall. This prices a large group of people (especially the working-class
young) out of the market. At the same time, were landlords allowed to adjust
to market at-will, people who potentially have lived in a community for
decades could be displaced without notice. Both situations are undesirable,
since it would seem that someone gets screwed either way.
I've been wondering this for a while, but haven't come up with a satisfying
answer: to what extent do people have the right to live in a given community?
Does this depend on if people have lived in a community for some time? Does it
only depend on whether they can afford to live there? I feel like these
questions aren't black and white, but there's also no clear middle part I feel
comfortable committing to.
~~~
majormajor
I'd ask a slightly different question: why is so much of our economic policy
centered around new and higher paying jobs in a certain area, in disconnect
with the current residents preferences for housing policy? It seems like these
things are controlled by very different interests that end up fighting in ways
that treat the non-high-income/wealthy existing residents as collateral
damage.
We want housing to be more affordable in LA, [a different but still local] we
also want Amazon to come to town and bring in a bunch of new workers from out
of town. Those two goals seems hard to reconcile.
~~~
ex3ndr
We are started an a startup (Openland, W18) to find a way to product more
housing and during initial research i found that there are a lot of empty lots
in LA that costs about $10k-50k. Tried to search in different states and found
same lots at Long Island.
So why people are not trying to buy land and build something on it instead?
Buying a house will cost magnitude more than buying land and building your own
house. Building will take time and resources, but... paying for a loan for 30
years? I think i can spend two years building my own home for the fraction of
a cost of buying existing one.
Why no one is doing this?
~~~
scruffyherder
Pretty sure you can't just build a house in America. What about all the
zoning, permits, regulations, planning, environmental impact etc.
The paperwork alone would be a nightmare!
Housing has come a long way since the days of the mail-order Sears & Roebuck
assemble it yourself house.
~~~
ex3ndr
There are a lot of startups and services to solve this problems.
Unfortunately, This market is in its very early days.
------
chiefalchemist
The truth is, big real estate companies have the resources and the incentive
to be aggressive.
But perhaps that's the root of the problem? With so many units at below market
rates, the current new to the market units get priced to cover the "loss" of
the controlled units? And then of course there's the incentive.
I'm not defending the practice. But I am suggesting - similar to housing and a
college edu - that "government intervention" often has unintended
consequences.
~~~
knuththetruth
The government intervenes on behalf of Global Capital in the housing market
all the time, allowing them to turn a basic necessity (shelter) into a vehicle
for things like international money-laundering and finacialized speculation.
These are the circumstances that have created the housing crisis we have now
and previously took down the entire economy. I’m confused as to why you single
out trying to intervene on behalf of the average person over the wealthy as
the source of the problem when the “free market” term setting has caused the
massive distortions and unaffordablity.
~~~
ryanobjc
Common myth of the 'free market' \- the reality is the market is totally
constrained in many ways by the political and legal system.
There is definitely something very 'i am very smart'-like about tech nerds
defending 'the market' against any attempts of humanizing life. "um, actually
the free market will..."
Governments exist to provide super-market force. Safety regulation being kind
of a prime example, especially for employees. OSHA is anti-free market --
there should be no safety regulations, and let employees the freedom to choose
safety or pay and let the free market work it out.
Right?
~~~
pitaj
The market is very good at allocating resources, setting prices, and meeting
demand.
Countries with freer economies like Switzerland and Hong Kong have higher
standard of living on average. Countries which free up their economies have
higher relative standards of living after doing so. Countries which oppress
their economies have lower relative standards of living after doing so. (By
relative, I mean relative to the growth rates of neighboring countries and
before the changes, as standards of living rarely decrease absolutely).
~~~
linkregister
That said, those economies have some weird aspects to them. Both are small
states. Both have much lower proportions of their population in poverty than
larger states. Both are centers of global commerce.
In general I agree with you that markets allocate resources far better than
the most earnest central authorities. That said, market failures often happen
without regulation from governments.
------
Regardsyjc
Evictions destabilize neighborhoods and ruin lives.
Evicted by Matthew Desmond is a great book on this issue. It is infuriating
some of the predatory, senseless, ruthless, scumbag business practices that
slum lords use and crazy to discover that this is a recent development
starting from the 60s.
Also shout out to Justfix.nyc, a startup using tech to tackle this issue. One
of their projects is this website they made to help.
[https://www.evictionfreenyc.org](https://www.evictionfreenyc.org)
~~~
chiefalchemist
I read Evicted. Great book! A must read.
Word of advice to anyone who picks it up. Read the final chapter or two first.
It's where he gets into the weeds of the data and such. If you start at the
beginning and get bored, get distracted, give up, etc. before the end you're
going to miss the best part.
Don't get me wrong, the stories are great. But just the same it gets
disheartening, if not depressing.
~~~
Khol
I read this over christmas and was completely engrossed (to the extent of
being borderline antisocial).
I can certainly understand how you might find it disheartening and depressing,
but I don't know I could quite see bored. The retelling of the situations was
captivating, and the descriptions of how the system fails those most in need
was harrowing at times. I've been recommending it to anyone who will listen.
~~~
chiefalchemist
I'm not saying __I__ got bored :)
However, the truth is, plenty of books get started and are never finished.
Since the bit at the end was so factually important to the discussion of the
issue, I didn't want that to be missed.
Imho, he should have started there.
~~~
Khol
I'm certainly guilty of getting partway through books and never returning, but
I don't know that if I'd jumped into the data first I would have been so
engrossed.
(Obviously this is entirely a personal perspective.)
~~~
chiefalchemist
Engrossed? Maybe not. But a lot of myths would have been busted. For me, it's
about trying to understand an issue, bumping into some ignorant ahole, and
being able to say "read this book...read __this chapter__."
Few enjoy such books. But more need to be more aware of the (data) truths that
define the issue.
~~~
Regardsyjc
The data on the number of deaths from domestic violence in cities/states that
have a law for penalizing landlords with properties with too many police calls
was infuriating.
------
toomanybeersies
A similar thing has happened in New Zealand.
The Tenancy Tribunal exists to mediate disputes between the landlord and
tenants, both the landlord and the tenant can bring cases. For example,
landlords can use it to get tenants to pay for damage caused, and tenants can
use it to get the landlord to fix something they are legally obliged to fix.
The tribunal is non-biased, and the decisions they make tend to be fair.
The problem though is that all tenancy tribunal case are public. With the
names of the tenants and landlords published, as well as the case and the
outcome.
A lot of rental applications ask if you have ever been to the tenancy
tribunal, and a lot of real estate agents will search the tribunal records
(which go back 5 years) when you apply for a rental. It doesn't matter if you
were in the right or wrong, or if you won or lost. Landlords are reluctant to
rent to anybody that has been to the tribunal, as they are considered
troublemakers.
Because of this, tenants are scared to go to the tribunal, even for justified
cases, where they are in the right and would win. The opposite doesn't occur
for landlords because there is more demand than supply for tenants, and also
tenants often don't know that they can search the tribunal records.
------
chimeracoder
> Rent-regulated apartments, often the only homes in New York that people of
> modest means can afford, are vanishing as gentrification surges inexorably
> through the city’s neighborhoods
Rent regulation in NYC is easily the least effective way to make housing
affordable for people of "modest means". It's criticized even by advocates of
affordable housing for this reason. The only reason it still exists is because
there are a large number of tenants grandfathered into the system (over a
third of all NYC tenants) and that makes for a formidable voting bloc.
Rent control is all-but-gone - only a very small number of units are still
eligible, and that's because the tenant has lived there continuously since
1975. Rent stabilization is less broken, but still horribly broken. Anybody
can live in a rent-stabilized unit, regardless of whether or not they'd be
able to afford the market rents, and there's no effort made to make those
units available to people who can't afford market rents.
There are plenty of other programs in NYC, like Mitchell-Lama, which are much
more effective at providing affordable housing. Rent regulation is not one of
them.
~~~
busterarm
> since 1975
Early 1970, actually.
> Anybody can live in a rent-stabilized unit, regardless of whether or not
> they'd be able to afford the market rents, and there's no effort made to
> make those units available to people who can't afford market rents.
But there is a strong effort to eliminate these units. Most of the rent
stabilized inventory is not in desirable places to live. The rent can be
increased every two years.
The rent guidelines board has voted for a freeze only one time in its 49 year
history. On average the increase is 2% every vote and two increases of about
7.5% in the last 5 years. This interest compounds, obviously and also scales
up MCI rent increases for capital improvements.
Once your rent hits $2700/mo, you are no longer stabilized. If you actually
work out some examples, you'll find from this chart that rent stabilized
tenants have had their rent increased _at minimum_ by roughly 34% for two-year
leases in the last decade. If your landlord is anything like mine, it's
probably close to 45%.
[http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/rentguidelinesboard/pdf/guideline...](http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/rentguidelinesboard/pdf/guidelines/aptorders2018.pdf)
~~~
chimeracoder
> Once your rent hits $2700/mo, you are no longer stabilized.
That's actually not true. At $2700, landlords have the option to petition for
deregulation, but there's no guarantee that they'll succeed.
Under $2700, they can't petition for a high rent deregulation. The income
threshold also only kicks in at this threshold, so a unit rented for $2000 can
be occupied by a person who makes $500,000/year, and there's nothing that the
landlord can do about it.
In addition, I'd have to check, but I believe the increase for the two years
before DeBlasio was reelected was 0% for single-year leases.
~~~
busterarm
They don't have to bother with that, they just don't renew your lease or use
the court to evict you and the apartment automatically becomes unregulated.
I've seen this happen in building after building going on 20 years now.
Usually they just wait for a few tenants to hit around 2500/mo and then stop
renewing leases and let the vacancy rate pull the rents over the threshold for
them. It's really easy.
(Note: they also lowered the tenant's personal income threshold in 2015 to
~200k/yr for two consecutive years)
~~~
chimeracoder
> They don't have to bother with that, they just don't renew your lease
They are required to renew the leases of stabilized tenants.
> or use the court to evict you and the apartment automatically becomes
> unregulated.
Nope, the apartment is still regulated even if they re-rent it. They have to
go through the deregulation process through the courts if they want to take it
off rent regulations.
~~~
busterarm
> They are required to renew the leases of stabilized tenants.
Most public benefit programs in NYC require you keep on-file a current lease
agreement. Withholding a paper lease is a deliberate tactic to make people
choose between keeping their apartment and keeping their benefits.
I mean, we can keep doing this back and forth about where we agree on how
things should work and I'll agree with you, but then I can tell you about how
my family or I have been going to court with our landlord at least every other
year since the late 80s.
I am a rent controlled tenant in a 95% rent stabilized building and the
landlord does incredibly shady shit to try and get myself and others out. In
fact we're going through the regular "didn't pay rent" routine right now that
will bring me to court again probably this August or September -- the bank
checks that I send certified mail every month are being refused delivery by
the management company again.
~~~
namibj
The European way of paying rent, e.g. recurring wires, has the benefit that
the recipient can't just refuse the physical object. And for legally binding
documents the tenant has to deliver within a deadline, he can, if it's that
bad (at least in Germany), pay a court bailiff to deliver the document and
certify this delivery. That is legally binding on the date it is put in the
mailbox.
~~~
busterarm
I agree wholeheartedly and it seems like it would be nice to live in a
civilized part of the world like Germany instead of my city and country of
origin.
~~~
namibj
Move here. It's not that difficult if you want it, and have the skill needed
to find someone to marry. The legal system here is (almost) still 'rule of
law', and the constitutional court has a history of voiding the police state
laws that crop up. Well, unless you are in Bavaria. I'd advise against setting
foot on that state. The arrest laws there are about as bad as civil
forfeiture, except that they can at worst lock up what you have on you,
instead of being able to turn it into funds. Also you, once you are a citizen,
don't have to worry about your employer firing you or so, if you can sit that
out in a frugal lifestyle.
Landlords here actually like non-agressive social-benefits tenants, as the
rent get's wired directly by the state and the benefits won't pay for an
apartment in an expensive area anyway, which, combined with the apparently
rather liberal zoning, as far as high-rise buildings are concerned, makes the
situation rather bearable.
------
pg_bot
This is what happens when you have rent control in your city. Residents who
are lucky enough to live in under market housing become reluctant to move as
they will be unlikely to receive another apartment at the rate they currently
pay. Landlords have no reason to invest money back into buildings if they
cannot recoup the investment. Rent control is bad public policy and should go
the way of the dodo.[0]
[0] [http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/rent-
control](http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/rent-control)
~~~
busterarm
The data in NY shows pretty clearly that buildings with significant amount of
stabilized and controlled units get an outsized share of Major Capital
Improvements because that is the way you get your units to cross the
stabilization threshold.
~~~
darawk
Can I get a source on that? Asking honestly, i'm curious about how that might
work.
~~~
busterarm
I'll have to find it again but the MCI increase rate is capped at 6%/yr for
stabilized tenants for this very reason.
My landlord has hit between 4.8% and 6% every year without exception since
1991...for what? Besides the lobby I can't tell.
~~~
DrScump
I would think that _27 years_ of such capital investment, if genuine, would
result in _some_ tangible, visible effect.
------
chatmasta
The worst aspect of high rent costs in cities is that it forces a long commute
on the poorest residents. Those are the people who could benefit the most from
extra time in their day. These blue collar workers, who basically run their
city, have to live outside it and spend hours each day commuting into it after
a short night’s sleep. The long term health effects of such a routine are
terrible, and even worse for families.
------
AnimalMuppet
More generally: When you give the government more power, you can expect the
powerful to try to use it.
What? You thought that power was going to be used on behalf of the powerless?
That may have been the stated intent. But the powerful tend to know how to use
power better than the powerless do...
~~~
gowld
And if you don't give the government more powerful, you can expect the
powerful to grow their power unchecked.
~~~
taysic
Not at all - the gov often concentrates power because they make the laws. This
is what happens in regulatory capture - a company can ensure themselves a
monopoly / advantages through the right laws in a way they could never
guarantee in the free market.
------
jakelarkin
certainly its also dysfunctional that we legislate that random property owners
must provide the safety net for the poor & elderly.
~~~
romwell
>random property owners must provide the safety net
Doing business (which renting out property is) is not a given right. The cost
of doing business (taxes and regulations) is what makes possible the existence
of the state at all - far from being a 'dysfunctional' concept.
~~~
mobilefriendly
Doing business -- freely associating and voluntarily contracting with other
people to exchange goods and services -- is in fact a natural right. The state
is largely a parasite on top of this activity.
~~~
ryanwaggoner
That’s sometimes true, but I don’t think it must be. The state provides an
incredibly valuable service to those exercise that natural right: enforcement
and conflict resolution. It makes sense to fund the state to perform this
functions, and possibly others.
------
kevin_b_er
Large corporations have more resources than you. They will always attempt to
abuse the system to extract money from you or to abuse you.
Hopefully the NY Times names and shames these crimelords and their companies.
------
cascom
Not mentioned here - the imputed cost of easy eviction on rental
prices/ability to rent. I’ve lived in tenant friendly cities (NYC) and
landlord friendly cities (HOU). And guess what, its way easier to rent an
apartment in a state where it’s easier to get evicted. Perversely making it
hard to evict a tennat can make the hurdles to be being able to qualify for an
apartment to high for many people. I’m not saying that there should be no
protections, and as a renter i would prefer to have stronger protections, but
with those stronger protections come costs....
------
busterarm
I loved how NYC landlords sought a 7% increase on rent stabilized apartments
and the RGB voted them a 7.4% increase instead.
Meanwhile the vacancy rate on rent-stabilized apartments over $2000/mo is
7.42%...
------
dsfyu404ed
Meh. This sucks but what can you do.
When you have a government where corruption and dysfunction is is tolerated or
expected in some parts (police and MTA come to mind) that dysfunction
inevitably seeps in everywhere else given the time.
As another commenter said the big real estate companies have the resources to
work the system until they get what they want so as long as the system
supports sloppy decision making and incompetence they can just work the system
until they get the desired result.
Sure this is bad but it's not gonna change until the politicans apply
pressure. They won't do that unless someone with connections gets screwed and
makes it their mission to right the wrongs or something thrusts the issue into
the public eye. It will probably take someone going postal for this to be
thrust into the public eye because the people being screwed are mostly poor
and nobody cares about what poor people do unless there's violence involved.
Without the politicians to applying pressure no change will happen and they
won't apply pressure unless this affects people with connections or provokes
outrage. Unfortunately that's just how these sorts of governments usually
work.
------
StanislavPetrov
This entire problem can be explained with one line from the above essay:
>Punishable conduct is rarely punished.
As long as judges allow landlords to break the law without facing serious
sanctions, they will continue to do so. Its the same behavior that encourages
police officers to perjure themselves constantly on the stand and prosecutors
to hide evidence and perform other misconduct in the pursuit of criminal
convictions. In many cases throughout society, unfortunately, the law has
become nothing more than a tool for the wealthy and powerful to punish and
control the poor and powerless. Anyone interested in reading an excellent book
on this subject should check out Glenn Greenwald's _With Liberty and Justice
for Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful_.
------
mrslave
Tomas Sowell's Basic Economics has a chapter on the failures of rent control,
specifically addressing New York City (among others).
These controls suffocate supply and now the owners of an artificially scarce
basic resource have a lot of power. It's not exactly a surprise.
------
misiti3780
I live in a Croman building now in the LES, it has been absolute tell since he
bought in 3 years ago.
------
kyrieeschaton
"Regulatory capture? What's that?"
~~~
wavefunction
"Nobody said freedom and Democracy were easy. You don't get to coast, enjoying
the fruits of all the hard labor that brought us to this point. You have to
maintain your institutions lest criminal elements in the corporate world or
elsewhere gain power."
Who are we quoting again?
------
noonespecial
_Even if a case is shown to be baseless, just being sued can hurt a tenant’s
ability to rent a new apartment._
We have this list, we have credit score lists, CLUE, and even sex offenders
lists... How about one more:
The "I'm a cartoon villain" list. If you, for example, evict a little old lady
in your greed for more rent even though your net worth exceeds some given
amount, you get added straight to the list. Because that's _cartoon_ level
villainy right there. That should follow you for life.
~~~
sigstoat
if the property is owned by a REIT, which is itself owned largely by retirees,
who exactly goes on the list?
(i just looked up a bunch of major REITs, and only EQR, Equity Residential,
has >1% ownership by insiders. despite that, it has ~96% institutional
ownership, with vanguard at 14.4%.)
~~~
noonespecial
As tempting as it is to just completely diffuse the blame and claim its
"nobody" or "the system", there are _humans_ at the tip of the spear. Even if
its just the lawyers who choose to take the case or the muscle who shows up to
do the eviction.
"I'm just doing my job" when you're obviously taking a helpless old lady's
home factors out to "I knew it was wrong, I just did it for the money".
Our loss of shame as a society and as individuals is truly dumbfounding.
~~~
perl4ever
Sounds like you might be interested in David Hogg's boycott of Vanguard,
albeit for different reasons.
To me, it's just tilting at windmills, but that seems to be becoming more
popular these days.
------
RickJWagner
I wonder if the Orbach Group has any ties to Jerry Orbach, 'Lenny' from Law
and Order and the father figure in 'Dirty Dancing'.
~~~
paulie_a
Fun fact he was known as "Mr Broadway" in his early career he performed in
numerous shows. Completely off topic but that really was the golden era of law
and order
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Vim - Navigating files in vertical splits - skwp
http://yanpritzker.com/2012/03/12/vim-navigating-files-in-vertical-splits/
======
falcolas
The article mentions using Ctrl-O for navigating backwards in your jumps, but
much more useful for going through tags (Ctrl-]) is Ctrl-T. This way, you can
dive into a tag, go anywhere in that file (or subsequent files), and Ctrl-T
will pop you back to where you followed the tag from.
If you have ambiguous tags (such as an open() method that is found across
several different classes and files), you can use :ts to pick the right method
to go to, and not lose your tag navigation stack.
Ctrl-] and Ctrl-T, once you set up tags for your project, are indispensable
when traversing through code.
~~~
Alexandervn
Nice, I didn't know Ctrl-T. I usually use ^ or g; to go back.
------
hesselink
To open a tag in a tab instead of a split, I use:
map <C-\> :tab split<CR>:exec("tag ".expand("<cword>"))<CR>
~~~
TomNomNom
And to open a file under the cursor in a tab you can use:
<C-w>gF
I map it to F9 along with a :tabm to make the new tab the last one in the
list:
nmap <F9> <C-W>gF:tabm<CR>
It's worth noting that if the filename has a colon followed by a line number
on the end of it, your cursor will be placed on that line. E.g, <F9> with the
cursor on the following:
~/.vimrc:40
Would open ~/.vimrc in a new tab, make it the last tab and place your cursor
on line 40.
Grep and ack (and I'm sure other tools) use this line number format in their
output when searching across multiple files. I often make use of this by
piping the output of such a command into a new vim buffer:
grep -Hnri 'some string or other' * | vim -
Then I use vim to search, further filter and open the files in tabs with my
<F9> mapping, jumping straight to the specific line that matched my original
search.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
British scientists claim to have found proof of alien life - xd
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-truth-is-out-there-british-scientists-claim-to-have-found-proof-of-alien-life-8826690.html
======
bazzargh
Published in the Journal of Cosmology?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Cosmology#Reliabili...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Cosmology#Reliability)
"The quality of peer review at the journal has been questioned. The journal
has also been accused of promoting fringe viewpoints and speculative
viewpoints on astrobiology, astrophysics, and quantum physics. Skeptical
blogger and biologist PZ Myers said of the journal "... it isn't a real
science journal at all, but is the... website of a small group... obsessed
with the idea of Hoyle and Wickramasinghe that life originated in outer space
and simply rained down on Earth.""
Wickramasinghe and his collaborators make these claims frequently.
------
mathattack
It would be fantastic if this were true. I would think it wouldn't be too hard
to genetically determine if these were extraterrestrial, no? The DNA would
have some kind of unique markers due to the necessities of living in a
different environment? Any biology majors here?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why enforce development dependencies? Use Nginx+lua to serve LESS/SASS and ES6 - titpetric
https://github.com/titpetric/nginx-lesscss
======
some1else
Hey this is interesting! Did you notice a significant difference in
performance using this technique over running the compiler from the command
line? There has to be some overhead in memory, but performance might be
acceptable. You should probably cache down to .css files for production
purposes, but that'll involve handling expiry. Either way, it's a really cool
trick though. Thanks to this, I might try to push my Sinatra image resizing
script into nginx+lua instead.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Dreams of an Inventor in 1420 - Petiver
http://publicdomainreview.org/2018/01/24/the-dreams-of-an-inventor-in-1420
======
jcmeyrignac
Copy of the article: [http://archive.is/gj3sf](http://archive.is/gj3sf)
------
pontifier
That last image with the spheres seems like one of the most straightforward...
The sphere is in 2 halves, the long U shaped piece with the barbs ties them
together. The clasp at the top can enter the U shaped piece before it is
inserted into the sphere. The tuning fork thing is the key. insert it through
the 2 holes in the bottom and the barbs on the U shaped piece are bent back so
the U can be removed.
------
JorgeGT
It seems the correct URL is [http://publicdomainreview.org/2018/01/24/the-
dreams-of-an-in...](http://publicdomainreview.org/2018/01/24/the-dreams-of-an-
inventor-in-1420/) with the final slash.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to Hire a Winner? Try a Game of Ping Pong - promocha
http://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/how-to-make-better-hiring-decisions-ping-pong.html?cid=sf01002
======
Paul_S
At this point I can't even tell anymore if this is some subtle sarcastic
commentary on how ridiculous interviews can get or a real way to hire
employees. I no longer care. When I'm looking for work I'm game for anything.
I'll perform interpretative dance if you happen to think this reveals my true
personality, I don't see the harm (at least to me). Any judgements you make
based on it will be purely justifications you come up with for the decision
you have already made based on other things - probably whether or not you like
or trust me. I'm all right with that.
~~~
asdfologist
What's wrong with it? It's optional (one candidate refused), and candidates
can have fun doing it, so it could be a win-win.
~~~
aResponder1
It promotes a fun-first work environment.
------
Nicholas_C
"Afterward, Bellenfant watches and evaluates, along with a statistician from
Vanderbilt, a psychologist from Vanderbilt, and the president of the Nashville
Table Tennis Club."
Seems a little overkill, but I like the idea in general.
"One young woman recently interviewed for an intern position. 'During the
recruiting process she displayed a high level of confidence and enjoyed making
people laugh,' Bellenfant says. In the original questionnaire, she rated her
excitement level at the prospect of playing at 13 (on the scale of 1-10), and
her ping pong skill level at seven.
When she played, it became obvious that she'd overestimated her abilities. 'We
would have put her at two or three,' he says. Yet in the questionnaire after
the game, she rated her skill level at six. 'She maintained that high level of
confidence, which we think is a positive thing,' Bellenfant says. The company
hired her, and he predicts she will be a strong performer."
Wouldn't being ridiculously over confident like this player be a negative
sign? That seems like the kind of person who would power through things by
themselves and do it completely wrong while being convinced it's right.
~~~
tormeh
It could be for a position where confidence and excess positivity is good,
like sales.
~~~
Nicholas_C
Very true. I did not consider that.
------
pramanat
Reminds me of Gulliver's Travels where the Emperor of Lilliput appoints court
officials by their rope dancing skills.
[http://www.shmoop.com/gullivers-travels/the-
lilliputians.htm...](http://www.shmoop.com/gullivers-travels/the-
lilliputians.html)
~~~
hiharryhere
That's an amazing reference. 10 points
------
ch4s3
"If they rated themselves a seven in skill level before the games and now they
see themselves as a three, maybe they learned something ... On the other hand,
a candidate who rated him or herself as a three originally and a seven after
the game may show hard self-judgment."
"We would have put her at two or three," he says. Yet in the questionnaire
after the game, she rated her skill level at six. "She maintained that high
level of confidence, which we think is a positive thing," Bellenfant says. The
company hired her, and he predicts she will be a strong performer."
What? Overrating your skill shows that you lack self-judgement, this girl
overrated her own skill so they hired her. This whole thing seems ludacris. I
mean, yeah I'm game for whatever to get a job, but this article just defies
reason to the point of seeming delusional.
~~~
joelrunyon
> This whole thing seems ludacris.
Ludacris --> rapper.
Ludicrous --> unreasonable.
~~~
ch4s3
yeah, I caught that after I posted it, but decided that ludacris fit the
sentiment, so I didn't bother editing it.
------
binaryapparatus
Any company that demonstrates this kind of thinking is actually only
interested in drones willing to follow whatever orders are at the table.
"We don't know what data we're getting but it is interesting"? Dance my
minions!
Reminds me on that "It's fucking startup" quasi enthusiastic story from the
other day
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7619439](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7619439)
~~~
codyb
Or alternatively, any company that demonstrates this kind of thinking is only
interested in people not as cynical as you.
;-).
Jeez, can't anything just be fun and interesting?
And aren't those companies that give you a task to do just to get an interview
(I've encountered this before) that the company will probably code review and
put into production far more insidious? It seems to me the "Work for free
before we even really talk to you" crowd of companies is looking for drones
more than the company interested in a unique way of evaluating the way a
person interacts with other people in a competitive and out of the ordinary
situation.
~~~
binaryapparatus
> Or alternatively, any company that demonstrates this kind of thinking is
> only interested in people not as cynical as you.
Very possible, I don't hide my despise toward meaningless evaluating and team
building techniques. If you are running a company in need of my skills you
need me as cynical as I can get because you need no-bs results.
> Jeez, can't anything just be fun and interesting?
It can but this is not friendly team building game. This is committee
evaluating candidate play. Can't see fun in that.
------
logfromblammo
Is this April 1st? No?
The simple truth is this: people have no idea how to hire good people, or even
how to evaluate their existing employees to see who is good and who is not.
And it is especially difficult when the prospective employees know the stakes.
If they don't present a particular image well enough, they won't get the job.
Every single person that comes in for an interview is acting out a role--the
person they think you want to hire. If you invent a tactic to see the real
person behind the role, it only works for a short time, until people know you
use it and adapt accordingly.
This is why the Monty Python sketch with the job interviewer ringing the bell
and counting down loudly still holds up. That was from 1969. Nineteen sixty-
nine. If you re-made it today, you could even keep the same punchline!
------
csbrooks
This is a great way to make sure you only hire people who are just like you.
I'm not a fan.
------
nsxwolf
What kind of weird world do you people live in? This is obnoxious. Only one
person has ever said no? I'd have made it two.
~~~
Paul_S
Maybe that's the only thing this test genuinely tests for. Maybe they don't
want employees who let pride get in the way of doing what they are told.
~~~
ch4s3
Then you would be awful to work for. People should take pride in what they do,
and you shouldn't ask them to do demeaning things.
I mean, if you run a cleaning service or fix septic tanks... people know what
they're in for.
------
hythloday
"We found we were just too likely to positively evaluate disabled people,
offer them a job and then find they had all sorts of costly health problems",
said the study author. "As a small growing company we can't afford that sort
of drain, so this roots them out before we get to that stage".
~~~
drcongo
I'd give this comment 10 upvotes if I could.
------
joesmo
Amusing. I think driving would be a terrible activity to practice this with.
Ping pong works because it's generally a neutral activity in life like any
sport. Ping pong does not present imminent, potentially-fatal dangers or
anything even close. Also, most people do not have strong preexisting opinions
about it. On the other hand, driving is an intense activity where the
consequences are life or death and any driver will have strong preexisting
opinions about it. Would it be fair to say I'm an aggressive person who can't
keep their cool if I yell profanities at the person who almost killed me a
moment ago? That's ridiculous. The activities are definitely _not_
interchangeable. Finally, what would they make of my skill rating of one both
before and after the game? Would it be interpreted as a lack of confidence or
will my failure to score be redeeming (Yes, I suck that much)?
------
deedubaya
Wanna hire a real stud? I mean, someone who will really perform?
Hire a hooker, and REALLY get to know your potential employee.
------
0xdeadbeefbabe
Haven't you ever heard of a nerd? False positives on this test could lead you
to hire the wrong nerd after all. I've heard there are people more interested
in the obfuscated C competition than anything in the physical world including
filling out surveys etc.
------
huherto
I guess if they published their interview technique it becomes useless.
~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
Maybe they secretly know it isn't that useful after all.
~~~
jrs235
Yes, perhaps they want to see what potential hires just try to game the
interview process.
------
WalterBright
I'd flunk that job interview.
I dislike ping pong in particular. I find it dull. I long ago lost interest in
winning at dull, pointless games.
~~~
eogas
Are you a robot?
~~~
WalterBright
Why yes, I am. The sack-of-meat Walter Bright was replaced years ago by
myself, the latest D-9000 computer. He was always jeopardizing the mission.
------
chris_mahan
Forrest Gump?
------
chris_mahan
Bruce Lee (with numchucks--look it up on youtube, it's freaking amazing)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WhatsApp voice calls were used to inject spyware on phones - EwanToo
https://www.ft.com/content/4da1117e-756c-11e9-be7d-6d846537acab
======
galadran
Interesting!
Google's Project Zero team investigated WhatsApp's and Facetime's video
conferencing last year:
"Overall, WhatsApp signalling seemed like a promising attack surface, but we
did not find any vulnerabilities in it. There were two areas where we were
able to extend the attack surface beyond what is used in the basic call flow.
_First, it was possible to send signalling messages that should only be sent
after a call is answered before the call is answered, and they were processed
by the receiving device_. Second, it was possible for a peer to send
voip_options JSON to another device. WhatsApp could reduce the attack surface
of signalling by removing these capabilities."
"Using this setup, I was able to fuzz FaceTime calls and reproduce the
crashes. I reported three CVEs in FaceTime based on this work."
WhatsApp: [https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/12/adventures-
in...](https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/12/adventures-in-video-
conferencing-part-4.html)
Facetime: [https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/12/adventures-
in...](https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/12/adventures-in-video-
conferencing-part-2.html)
In both cases, the close source nature of the applications stymied their
efforts. Looks like NSO was willing to spend more time and resources!
~~~
pvg
_In both cases, the close source nature of the applications stymied their
efforts._
Why do you say that? In the WhatsApp case, they were able to repeatedly modify
the code and also yank it out and run it in their own controlled environment,
etc.
~~~
criley2
From my experience, working with real source from the repo with comments etc
is very different than working with reverse engineered binaries.
That's probably what they're referring to.
~~~
pvg
The post says "the close[d] source nature of the applications stymied their
efforts" not "finding security bugs is harder than not-finding security bugs".
I didn't read anything in the linked post that supports the former statement,
the latter one (or variants) seems obvious.
------
roywiggins
It's not just the NSO group. Hacking Team is not exactly shy about the
services they offer.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Team](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Team)
FinFisher:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinFisher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinFisher)
MiniPanzer:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniPanzer_and_MegaPanzer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniPanzer_and_MegaPanzer)
~~~
bjourne
Wow! I had no idea there was a whole industry selling spyware to
dictatorships. Surveillance equipment, yes, but not actual hacking tools.
Really sickening. Must be why governments in Europe are so afraid of Huawei
building 5G networks - they will only run Chinese spyware.
~~~
metildaa
Huawei's equipment will almost assuredly run anyone's spyware. Huawei uses a
medley of ancient, highly vulnerable OpenSSL libraries sprinkled through their
basestation code, and apparently they've forgone any kind of version control
to ensure an optimally confusing work environment for their development teams:
[https://hmgstrategy.com/resource-
center/articles/2019/04/04/...](https://hmgstrategy.com/resource-
center/articles/2019/04/04/uk-flunks-huawei)
Frankly, these products are likely unmaintainable long term without a total
refactoring of the codebase, nevermind the abject lack of security.
The trick with these vendors is the codebase will never see serious
improvement, as these basestations aren't going to be sold for the next
decade, so Huawei will do the bare minimum and shelve support in short order.
~~~
winter_blue
Huawei's software development practices seem quite horrifying. Critical
systems like these ideally would be written in specially-designed programming
languages that support mathematically proving correctness (Coq comes to mind).
There's probably still room in the programming language design field to create
new languages that are user-friendly but also integrate Coq-like systems plus
other verifiability and correctness techniques into the language itself.
~~~
Semaphor
If you find that horrifying, don't look at Cisco CVEs ;)
~~~
metildaa
Or Juniper's constant flow of new CVEs, they are a popular alternative to
Cisco that many ISPs use heavily :P
Network security is piss poor, most of these vendors add vulnerabilties atop
secure distros (OpenWRT, Debian, etc) and flog it as the best thing since
sliced bread.
------
neonate
[http://archive.is/kDz13](http://archive.is/kDz13)
~~~
kristofferR
1.1.1.1 mirror:
[https://archivecaslytosk.onion.pet/kDz13](https://archivecaslytosk.onion.pet/kDz13)
------
rhamzeh
Non-paywalled article on this: [https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/13/whatsapp-
vulnerability-israel...](https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/13/whatsapp-
vulnerability-israeli-spyware/)
~~~
mcintyre1994
Also BBC one:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48262681](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48262681)
------
thelittleone
I guess these types of vulnerabilities could be placed intentionally. It would
allow certain agencies to again access via "exploit" and all the while claim
they support user privacy. These companies are under pressure from governments
(like the recent Australian government law to requiring access to encrypted
messages). Seems like a decent solution for company and governments.
~~~
bouncycastle
It's not a decent solution, because it doesn't take much to find these
vulnerabilities, just a matter of time.
~~~
lixtra
But time is enough. New bugs can be introduced with the next update.
~~~
bouncycastle
The update can be analyzed to see what was changed, even if we only have the
binary executable. If we know that an app contains intentional bugs, just
looking at where the update made changes could eliminate a lot of looking &
find the bugs even faster! There are many automated tools that can do this
too, eg. Fuzzing. The updates can also hint us where the previous bug was and
what to look out for in the future.
So, nope. Introducing security bugs and backdoors just makes it insecure for
everyone.
~~~
iforgotpassword
Oh, so you are reverse engineering and thoroughly analyzing every WhatsApp
update? That's reassuring. Cause otherwise I'd have said nobody does this on a
regular basis which would mean it still is a viable method.
~~~
gdfasfklshg4
Their is an entire industry that either is already or definitely would be
doing this if there were deliberate bugs in Apps.
~~~
whenchamenia
There is, and there are.
------
ezequiel-garzon
It seems to me that if this is possible an OS software upgrade of some sort is
urgently required, in addition to possible updates of WhatsApp. How come there
isn’t coverage of this as Android and iOS vulnerabilities?
~~~
floatingatoll
Gaining control of WhatsApp gains access to any API accessible to WhatsApp.
Incompetent reporting may be at fault.
On Android, WhatsApp seeks a wide array of permission-controlled APIs. It does
so on iOS as well. Once granted, the app has access to any data available
through access-allowed APIs.
App code goes through an audit process to ensure that the app isn’t using
accessible APIs inappropriately, and doesn’t permit unapproved code execution.
This vulnerability allows an attacker to execute unapproved code in the
WhatsApp context. Any API that iOS or Android offer WhatsApp under normal
circumstances is now attacker-controlled.
The two questions unanswered by the press to date are simple. On iOS and on
Android, can the attacker’s code be terminated by force-quitting and
uninstalling WhatsApp?
Either the attack is persistent only because it sets up shop inside the app,
which may have OS-granted background and/or screen-off execution rights, and
thus can be terminated simply by quitting and removing the app — or, the
attack gains persistence beyond the confines of the app.
Media reports are unclear on this point. If the OS offers apps endpoints that
an app executing attacker-controlled code can use to infect the OS with
persistent attack code that executes outside the app’s boundaries and remains
after app uninstallation, then that’s absolutely a flaw in the design of the
OS. As you say, “Android and iOS vulnerabilities”.
Is this the case?
~~~
jmkni
Very interested to know what this means in practice, particularly for iOS.
AFAIK, there's no permissions which allow you to read SMS messages, take
screenshots (unless jailbroken), access photos in the background, access the
camera in the background etc etc
Does this just spy on the users Whatsapp activity, or spy on the user in a
broader way?
How could the API's whatsapp _does_ have access to be abused?
~~~
floatingatoll
> How could the APIs .. be abused?
The app is infected, calls a 0-day using an illegal parameter that’s normally
rejected by app store filters, and gains a permanent beachhead in your Android
system services list.
> access photos in the background
Unclear. Apps can show thumbnail galleries of your photos within their native
UI, so it may well be possible for them to continue directly to reading
photos.
> access the camera in the background
Unclear. Does FaceTime continue transmitting video when the phone screen is
turned off? Is it possible to capture stills or video when the screen is off
on a jailbroken phone?
> or spy on the user in a broader way
Android WhatsApp seeks permission to read your SMSes, so that would be almost
certainly correct as well there.
~~~
jmkni
Well I was thinking specifically about iOS :)
There's no possible way to read SMS messages programatically in iOS for
example, the closest you get is reading one time passwords sent, and you can
only do that when the user has the keyboard open when the SMS is received.
I know Android is slightly more lax in this (and some other) regards. I wonder
if Android whatsapp users targeted by this exploit have had more data exposed
than iOS users targeted by the same exploit?
~~~
floatingatoll
All WhatsApp iOS users have an unpredictable set of permissions granted,
whereas all WhatsApp Android users have all permissions granted.
If I were a nation state attacker, I would be thrilled to find that my target
was Android.
------
lol768
CVE-2019-3568 suggests this was a buffer overflow. I'd like to understand why
this was implemented in native code - Android seems to have an
`android.net.rtp` package?
Is this simply for performance, or to enable code-sharing across Android and
iOS? Is there anything about WhatsApp's use-case that would prevent an
implementation using managed code?
~~~
auiya
Also, what exploitation mitigations are broken on Android/iOS such that a
buffer overflow is reliably exploitable? Are their implementations of ASLR
useless? Is it trivially bypassed? Is mandatory code-signing not
enabled/enforced?
~~~
lol768
All very good questions, hopefully we can get some more information as time
progresses (maybe a PoC, or at least a technical write-up on the specifics)
------
stunt
I wonder! Should we call it a vulnerability or a leaked backdoor?
Besides, I think if it was from any other developer, probably it would be
removed from the AppStore and force delete from user devices.
------
bjourne
All my life I've thought spyware was developed primarily by evil Russian and
Chinese hackers. But apparently also by Israeli developers with _their
government 's blessing_ and open endorsement. That's some very shady stuff.
Before someone says something about government surveillance of fiber cables.
Yes, that is also bad, but exploiting vulnerabilities to install spyware on
peoples phones... It crosses yet another line that shouldn't ever be crossed.
~~~
xenospn
They managed to destroy Iranian nuclear centrifuges using a very sophisticated
attack. Read up on Stuxnet.
Also, as an Israeli, I can 100% confirm that Israelis have absolutely no
issues with crossing any kind of boundary. The fact that others think that
such a thing as "boundaries" exist only serves as an advantage.
~~~
olivermarks
Not clear whether you consider this a good thing or a disgrace?
~~~
golergka
As another israeli - certainly a good thing. For a nation in our position, in
a deeply hostile region, where a major military defeat is certain to be
genocide, doing everything possible for national defence is the only way
possible to survive. Stuxnet in particular is something that I'm extremely
proud of.
~~~
timobet
You say this as your country is invading and occupying land that doesn’t
belong to them and murdering innocents to drive them out. Yeah, nice way to be
proud.
~~~
FigmentEngine
very hard to think of any country that has NOT done this. History shows that
people and their countries do bad things.
~~~
simiones
True, but there is a difference between 'my ancestors have done this' and
'some of the taxes I'm paying are going into continuing the occupation; I've
voted for the people who are ordering the air strikes'. There's fewer
countries where that's true today.
------
billysielu
"update the app" is the sum of the advice?
how about telling us how to check if this exploit was used, how to remove the
spyware, etc?
~~~
scraegg
I'm not sure what can be done nowadays. In the past you would say, format
disks and go back to a backup before the threatening event happened. But
nowadays all our stuff is in the cloud and you can only go back to the state
from 10 minutes ago, and all our disks are flash drives that you can't fully
format as an end user. Maybe you can just accept that some virusses will
always be there and act accordingly.
~~~
Scoundreller
Some of us do snapshot backups.
Would be nice to have a tool that everyone on the planet could use to run
against those backups and find a common source of the infections, along with
an idea of when it was found in the wild.
------
aaomidi
How were they able to install spyware on iOS devices?
~~~
snowwrestler
Most likely by exploiting an iOS vulnerability . (Which might be unrelated to
the WhatsApp bug, other than using it as a vector.)
------
scraegg
What about Wechat? There are lots of seemingly pretty girls trying to voice or
video call these days. Either I'm suddenly rich in their eyes or there's
something fishy going on.
~~~
wil421
Name a chat app and I can provide a link or comment from someone saying the
same thing about pretty scam girls. Facebook, Whatspp, Gmail, Kik, Snapchat,
Instagram, and even BBSes, AOL, IRC etc...
~~~
scraegg
What I saw on FB is automatic replies from bots. What I know from Skype are
african boys who try to earn their next beer in an internet cafe by acting
they would be a girl. I can confirm it's all not that.
------
0898
Just to be clear – does this affect iPhone, or just Android?
~~~
keyme
Affects both
~~~
ak39
Thanks. Is there a way to detect the infection?
------
JacobHenner
Wonder if this affects Signal, too.
~~~
joecool1029
My gut tells me no. Signal switched over to using the Signal Protocol for call
signaling. It had used a few different signaling standards over the years
(when it used to be called Redphone).
However, it's impossible to really know for sure as the server component for
calls is a proprietary black box.
~~~
cottsak
Agreed. It seems more plausible that the "injected code" would be limited to
(1) the WhatsApp app, and (2) the infrastructure outside of the Signal
Protocol implementation. If true, this still poses a problem to comms/calls
secured end-to-end with the Signal Protocol impl - because once decrypted on
the client, the rest of the WhatsApp may be compromised and able to exfil
comms.
I will be surprised, if this vuln allows the attacker control outside of the
WhatsApp app sandbox to other parts of iOS.
(I will be less surprised if the above is possible in Android)
------
ccnafr
I like it how Facebook doesn't mention anything in the WhatsApp changelog
about this.
~~~
cricalix
Apple won't let you change a changelog after the binary is built and put on
the store. So if you want to get a fix out, but not alert people that you're
on to them, you have to put out a changelog that just says something like
"Bugfixes". Then you have to build another build and submit another changelog,
but Apple probably won't let you issue builds that are duplicates...
------
leoh
Spooky. I just travelled to Israel and this evening, at around 3 AM, iOS
notified me that WhatsApp had been accessing my location in the background,
which I had never seen before except when sharing my location with a friend.
------
EGreg
We need open source software to decentralize large companies’ closed server
farms and WhatsApp.
------
whycomb
Updated WhatsApp on my iphone just now. The version I got was 2.19.50.
According to the CVE it's still vulnerable. Unable to get 2.19.51 which is the
first fixed version. Is this just me? Or is everyone else updating to a still-
vulnerable version?
~~~
Tepix
Have you tried pulling down on the updates screen of the iOS app store? It
refreshes the list of apps to be updated.
~~~
Scoundreller
That did it. Thank you. And to think I _thought_ I installed all of my pending
updates yesterday.
------
ricg
Can the WhatsApp-injected spyware escape the iOS App Sandbox?
~~~
1f60c
I was wondering the same. I would hope no, but even so, WhatsApp has plenty of
permissions that make it a valuable target.
------
OrgNet
Yeah, don't install any Facebook app... use the web if you need to use their
service... same advice has always been true.
------
jonplackett
Isn’t this also a screw up by Apple?
Isn’t Sandboxing supposed to prevent this from getting any worse than hacking
the app itself?
~~~
floatingatoll
Isn’t every article about this saying it persists, without saying how or
whether it’s a sandbox escape? If it just spins up bad code in WhatsApp space,
that’s sufficient to spy on you.
~~~
jonplackett
I'm sure I saw one say it infected the OS. I would like to know some more
proper details too.
------
anonymousDan
Can anyone advise on minimum version numbers containing the patch (on IOS and
Android)?
~~~
floatingatoll
Listed here:
[https://www.facebook.com/security/advisories/cve-2019-3568](https://www.facebook.com/security/advisories/cve-2019-3568)
------
olivermarks
[https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-13/secretive-
israeli-...](https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-13/secretive-israeli-
company-uses-whatsapp-voice-calls-install-spyware-phones)
------
Yuval_Halevi
WhatsApp belongs to Facebook
Some of the largest data breaches in the last few years related to facebook
and yet
They continue do whatever they want
GDPR made no difference at all... Only hurt the small-medium business
FB, Google, Aamazon just keep doing whatever they want, protected by army of
lawyers
------
joshlk
The article is behind a paywall. Here is a BBC link:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48262681](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48262681)
------
TheSmoke
is this how saudi activists were tracked or uae tapped the phones of govt
officials from various countries?
------
dbrgn
Here's an article without paywall:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48262681](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48262681)
------
jpangs88
This was behind a paywall, here is a similar article:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48262681](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48262681)
------
dschuetz
Why is that even possible? It's horrifying that simple voice calls via an app
allow that kind of attack.
~~~
floatingatoll
Cellular broadband modems are running a tiny OS that can be hacked by sending
SMS messages with a carefully crafted NUL byte. Battlestar Galactica’s “no
networking, no wireless” computer restriction exists for a very good reason.
------
GMLOOKO
A
------
SeriousM
Paywall, really?
------
accountwhatever
Why was the word "Israeli" removed from the title?
~~~
dang
I took it out because the thread was veering into generic flamewar about
Israel. Actually we often remove country names from titles because they
trigger people into making more nationalistic comments, which are equal parts
indignant and boring.
~~~
anonymousDan
That's a bit of a pathetic policy if you ask me. In my opinion a country who
permits this type of behaviour shouldn't be shielded from the ensuing negative
press. If anything it might encourage otherwise unaware citizens to put
pressure on the government to do something about it.
~~~
dang
I hear you. I agree with your second sentence. But I'm trying to protect HN,
not Israel or anyone else. This place is fragile, and when people bring the
fires of the world here, it can only take so much.
I wouldn't call that kind of title edit (taking out a country name) a policy.
We have an ad hoc bag of tricks and sometimes we use one and sometimes
another, depending on what feels needed. Do I know how unsatisfying that
sounds? You bet. Do I get how it opens us to accusations of bias? I do, better
than anyone else does. But the threads are too complicated to be managed with
precise formalizations.
~~~
anonymousDan
Ack. I can see it's a tricky balance to maintain.
------
forgotmypw3
WhatsApp voice calls used to inject Israeli spyware on phones
Messaging app discovers vulnerability that has been open for weeks
NSO's Pegasus software can allegedly penetrate any iPhone via one simple
missed call on WhatsApp
Mehul Srivastava in Tel Aviv MAY 13, 2019 Print this page
A vulnerability in the messaging app WhatsApp has allowed attackersto inject
commercial Israeli spyware on to phones, the company and a spyware technology
dealer said.
WhatsApp, which is used by 1.5bn people worldwide, discovered in early May
that attackers were able to install surveillance software on to both iPhones
and Android phones by ringing up targets using the app’s phone call function.
The malicious code, developed by the secretive Israeli company NSO Group,
could be transmitted even if users did not answer their phones, and the calls
often disappeared from call logs, said the spyware dealer, who was recently
briefed on the WhatsApp hack.
WhatsApp is too early into its own investigations of the vulnerability to
estimate how many phones were targeted using this method, a person familiar
with the issue said.
As late as Sunday, as WhatsApp engineers raced to close the loophole, a UK-
based human rights lawyer’s phone was targeted using the same method.
Researchers at the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab said they believed that
the spyware attack on Sunday was linked to technology developed by NSO, which
was recently valued at $1bn in a leveraged buyout that involved the UK private
equity fund Novalpina Capital.
NSO’s flagship product is Pegasus, a program that can turn on a phone’s
microphone and camera, trawl through emails and messages and collect location
data.
NSO advertises its products to Middle Eastern and Western intelligence
agencies, and says Pegasus is intended for governments to fight terrorism and
crime.
In the past, human rights campaigners in the Middle East have received text
messages over WhatsApp that contained links that would download Pegasus to
their phones.
WhatsApp said that teams of engineers had worked around the clock in San
Francisco and London to close the vulnerability. It began rolling out a fix to
its servers on Friday last week, WhatsApp said, and issued a patch for
customers on Monday. The US Department of Justice has also begun looking into
the situation.
“This attack has all the hallmarks of a private company known to work with
governments to deliver spyware that reportedly takes over the functions of
mobile phone operating systems,” the company said. “We have briefed a number
of human rights organisations to share the information we can, and to work
with them to notify civil society.”
NSO said it had carefully vetted customers and investigated any abuse. Asked
about the WhatsApp attacks, NSO said it was investigating the issue.
“Under no circumstances would NSO be involved in the operating or identifying
of targets of its technology, which is solely operated by intelligence and law
enforcement agencies,” the company said. “NSO would not, or could not, use its
technology in its own right to target any person or organisation, including
this individual [the UK lawyer].”
NSO declined to comment on whether it had hacked WhatsApp’s messaging service,
and marketed the technology to clients, or on the US DoJ inquiry.
The UK lawyer, who declined to be identified, has helped a group of Mexican
journalists and government critics and a Saudi dissident living in Canada, sue
NSO in Israel, alleging that the company shares liability for any abuse of its
software by clients.
John Scott-Railton, a seniorresearcher at the University of Toronto’s Citizen
lab, said the attack had failed.
“We had a strong suspicion that the person’s phone was being targeted, so we
observed the suspected attack, and confirmed that it did not result in
infection,” said Mr Scott-Railton. “We believe that the measures that WhatsApp
put in place in the last several days prevented the attacks from being
successful.”
Other lawyers working on the cases have been approached by people pretending
to be potential clients or donors, who then try and obtain information about
the ongoing lawsuits, the Associated Press reported in February.
“It's upsetting but not surprising that my team has been targeted with the
very technology that we are raising concerns about in our lawsuits,” said Alaa
Mahajne, a Jerusalem-based lawyer who is handling lawsuits from the Mexican
and Saudi citizens. “This desperate reaction to hamper our work and silence
us, itself shows how urgent the lawsuits are, as we can see that the abuses
are continuing.”
On Tuesday, NSO will also face a legal challenge to its ability to export its
software, which is regulated by the Israeli ministry of defence.
Amnesty International, which identified an attempt to hack into the phone of
one its researchers, is backing a group of Israeli citizens and civil rights
group in a filing in Tel Aviv asking the ministry of defence to cancel NSO’s
export licence.
“NSO Group sells its products to governments who are known for outrageous
human rights abuses, giving them the tools to track activists and critics. The
attack on Amnesty International was the final straw,” said Danna Ingleton,
deputy director of Amnesty Tech.
“The Israeli ministry of defence has ignored mounting evidence linking NSO
Group to attacks on human rights defenders. As long as products like Pegasus
are marketed without proper control and oversight, the rights and safety of
Amnesty International’s staff and that of other activists, journalists and
dissidents around the world is at risk.”
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2019. All rights reserved.
~~~
byron_wan
Is this the full FT article?
~~~
tekknolagi
Looks like it, from the archive.is link above.
------
redskull
FT.com worst site in the world.. I thought you can't link things that require
a subscription to read?
~~~
dave7
For these, there is a link below the headline titled "web" \- click this, it
opens in a search that when clicked through allows reading.
~~~
rawrmaan
Wow, TIL. Thanks!
------
kurthr
The title has been modified.
WhatsApp voice calls used to inject Israeli spyware on phones
~~~
dang
Sure, we take out the baity parts of titles because they produce lousier
discussion. This is standard HN moderation:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19906729](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19906729)
for more explanation.
~~~
bjourne
Cursory Google searches seem to indicate that the same policy isn't applied
for Chinese or Russian cyber threats. You also didn't remove the country name
in other recent news, despite the production of even lousier discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19638357](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19638357)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19634570](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19634570)
The moderation is inconsistent.
~~~
dang
I'm not claiming consistency. For one thing, we don't come close to seeing
everything that gets posted here. If you see a particularly bad post get away
without moderation, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. We
can't be consistent about what we don't see.
There are a ton of other considerations, though, and it gets complicated
quickly. I'm always happy to discuss specific cases, but general arguments are
another matter. Sometimes it feels like people want us to make general
arguments so they can find exceptions and then say things like "aha" and "your
obvious bias" and "figures". But we don't have general policies about such
complicated things. We have basic principles and that's it:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
If you don't think we've been trying to reduce nationalistic flamewar about
China and Russia, you could try looking at HN threads on those topics. I don't
know anything I've been working at harder lately. On the other hand, there's
100x more of those, especially on China, so cf. the first paragraph above.
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20nationalistic&sort=b...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20nationalistic&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0)
~~~
bjourne
> I'm always happy to discuss specific cases
If so, then maybe you can explain why you didn't change "Israel’s Beresheet
Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash" and "A private
spacecraft from Israel will attempt a moon landing Thursday" to "Private
Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash" and "A private
spacecraft will attempt a moon landing Thursday" respectively?
I think your attempt at reducing nationalistic flame wars is very misguided,
because I want to read what people think. If HN readers want to flame each
other then I would like to have the chance to read the flames even if I'd
likely scroll past them. But if you are going to do it, at least be
consistent.
~~~
dang
In one case I didn't see the article and in the other it didn't cross my mind.
But also, that topic isn't so highly charged, and I didn't see nationalistic
flamewar getting in there.
You're asking for a level of consistency in moderation that we can't deliver.
I'd have to hold 100x more information in my head to come up with a consistent
set of principles that would cover everything we do. Such a set would be
inordinately complicated and impossible to explain or defend, so what would be
the point.
> I want to read what people think.
Me too. But you can't read everything people think, because comments influence
what gets posted in response. If a discussion becomes a flamewar, you're going
to get the angry thoughts of the flamers, but lose the thoughts of those the
flames drive away. It's a tradeoff—we can't have both. On HN the non-flamey,
thoughtful comments take precedence, because that's the only way to optimize
for HN remaining interesting. This is one area where I think we really are
consistent, or at least I hope we are.
Look at it this way: each post changes the kind of site HN is. The container
isn't static—it's altered by what people add to it. Our goal is optimize that
container for curiosity. This is a global optimization problem, so it's
important not to get distracted by local optima. Our experience with things
like nationalistic flames is that while such comments are sometimes
interesting (and certainly the topics are of great world significance), the
_type_ of discussion they lead to is reliably worse. What we do is:
extrapolate the vector of a given comment and ask what its shaping influence
is on the site as a whole. Is it to make HN more, or less, interesting? Where
more, we either do nothing or steer towards; where less, we steer away. In the
case of flamewars, steering away means doing things to prevent the flames from
spreading. There are various tools for that—digging trenches, pouring water,
etc. Picking which to use where is more of an art and I wouldn't say we're
particularly consistent on that level. But the fundamental principle is very
consistent—there's only one, and it motivates literally everything we do here.
~~~
bjourne
> In one case I didn't see the article and in the other it didn't cross my
> mind. But also, that topic isn't so highly charged, and I didn't see
> nationalistic flamewar getting in there.
They are right there, in light-gray color at the bottom of the respective
articles. Now that you have been made aware for the problem, will you change
those articles' titles? I don't understand how you can claim one title is
"baitsy" while the other to examples are not.
------
sb057
This is the same country that has a secret nuclear stockpile (developed in
partnership with Apartheid South Africa) with plans to use the threat of
bombing their European "allies" as blackmail.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option)
~~~
coreman
The "Samson Option" is a conspiracy theory that if Israel is ever at the brink
of destruction it will nuke Europe and America. It is a conspiracy theory
based on the ramblings of one Israeli historian and one American author.
Israel has nuclear weapons and its MAD policies are probably the same as other
nuclear powers.
It's funny because Putin has actually said that Russia will end up destroying
the entire world in retaliation if Russia is ever attacked with nuclear
weapons. But for some reason you don't see this quote get the same attention
as the "Samson Option".
_‘Why would we want a world without Russia? '_
_Days later, he reiterated his stance, implying that nuclear war — a
“disaster for the entire world” — would be a response to a major attack
against Russia: “as a citizen of Russia and the head of the Russian state, I
must ask myself: ‘Why would we want a world without Russia? '”_
_‘Why would we want a world without Russia? '_
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/01/27/commentary/w...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/01/27/commentary/world-
commentary/putin-and-the-apocalypse/)
~~~
lostlogin
> Israel has nuclear weapons and its MAD policies are probably the same as
> other nuclear powers.
But with a much more controversial relationship with it neighbours, who’s land
it illegally occupies and state policies that are compared to apartheid
policies.
~~~
lostmsu
Much more controversial, than Russian? At least those poor folks in Palestine
have an incompatible religion, which I could not say about Ukraine.
~~~
lostlogin
There are also other examples like China and the Uyghurs. Perhaps “much more
controversial” is going to far, as there is a lot of shitty behaviour.
------
WC3w6pXxgGd
And nobody was surprised.
------
vardump
My desktop WhatsApp on macOS is crashing pretty regularly, once every few
days. Really makes me wonder if I'm being targeted using similar exploits.
~~~
kuroguro
It's probably the link preview preload. It can't handle certain sites and
crashes almost instantly when trying to send a link.
------
a-dub
Maybe that would explain the mysterious WhatsApp voice call I received about a
week ago in the middle of the night from an unknown number? It's still in the
history so maybe that means it didn't work?
~~~
MagicPropmaker
Are you involved with anything that would make you think you'd be worth
someone's time and money to be spying on? Most likely it was a wrong number.
------
kmarc
I am not an expert on RCEs whatsoever but my limited knowledge / gut feeling
tells me that one works by after a buffer overflow flipping some bits and
* invoking syscalls
* using (known) kernel vulnerabilities
* libc bugs
* exploiting buggy posix abstraction, etc.
However, here all platforms seem to be exploited, regardless kernels
(darwin/linux/windows), process models, libc implementations etc.
I cannot unthink that this was simply doable because WhatsApp had already have
code paths to place and run tasks/processes and this exploit works on this,
higher level.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The (partial) state of the mobile data market - danw
http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2007/08/partial-state-of-mobile-data-market.html
======
jsjenkins168
I thought Americans text message a lot.. But it is still only half of how much
Europeans do. Amazing. Untapped startup potential maybe?
What I really want to see is comparable data for Japan. But like this blogger
suggests the data is scarce. As a culture, they do blog and text message a lot
though.
~~~
danw
My favourite stat is:
"A third of South Korean students send over 100 SMS messages a day"
That'll give you an idea of how much more Asian countries use SMS than
European ones. Also Japan tends to be a special case as they use different
protocols. There mobile email is popular whilst SMS is non existant.
As for startup potential, look at twitter for a start. They added the ability
to make one-to-one private text messages into a one-to-many public broadcast
network. Theres plenty of other possible permutations left to try.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: No US Degree, will get work permit in 4 months - Kshad
I don't have any schooling in the USA - moved here after my marriage. I will get my work permit in the next 4 months. What's the best way I can spend my time productively to land a good job ($100k+ and intellectually stimulating)
======
akerl_
What skills do you have? What experience do you have? What do you find
intellectually stimulating?
~~~
Kshad
analytical and critical thinking, good grasp on spoken and written
communication in english, some coding. experience with running business
operations and product line creation. love to know how things work, especially
businesses.
~~~
gus_massa
What was your (official) education credential level before moving to US?
> _some coding_
Which languages? Do you have a github profile? A blog with some small
projects?
> _experience with running business operations and product line creation_
This is not very specific. Any interesting anecdote to share?
~~~
Kshad
officially a computer engineer and mba. C, Java but no work exp as a coder.
ran regional operations (p&l responsibility) for a fashion apparel company
with 17 direct reports, 100+ indirect. launched products (suits and blazers)
including pricing and gross margin decisions across 7 distribution channels.
this is where I developed my communication (and influence) skills, analytical
skills and business acumen.
~~~
gus_massa
I think it's better to start your cv/presentation/whatever with
* I got a computer engineer and mba an the university of X in the country Y
instead of
* I got no official degree in USA
For some professions, a degree is almost universal [Mathematician here. The
value of a math degree depends a lot on the university, the advisor, and how
many papers you have published. But you are effectively a mathematician
everywhere.]
For other professions like lawyers and medical doctors, moving to another
country means you must go back to primary school and draw your vertical and
horizontal sticks again.
But I'm feeling that you prefer a management position instead of a software
developer position.
~~~
Kshad
thanks. yes, i do prefer a management position. any suggestions on what should
i do in the next two months?
~~~
akerl_
Probably apply for management jobs.
There’s not really any specific skill you’re likely to pick up in ~2 months
that will make you more or less hire-able for “tech management jobs related to
designing products”.
Might as well start applying now, which will give you more time to get into
the groove of interviewing at the companies you pick.
~~~
Kshad
thanks!
------
sushshshsh
Java and SQL.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Snapchat COO Emily White to Depart - foobarqux
http://recode.net/2015/03/13/exclusive-snapchat-coo-emily-white-to-depart-ephemeral-messaging-phenom/
======
foobarqux
Does someone know what is going on at this place?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Imageless – Read webpages without distracting images - ramoq
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/imageless/ceagmcmlnnpcdhnlocedfdciecplcpgj
======
aam1r
Cool, very useful! Do you have plans to make it so that it remembers which
pages I have images turned off on?
~~~
ramoq
Great idea. I'll see if I can push that out shortly
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Integrating Spine & Rails using a JSON Ajax API and scaffolding - maccman
http://vimeo.com/30976192
======
Gertig
Thanks for the screencast Alex, the documentation and examples around spine.js
are really helpful.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What's new in Gradle 5.0 - wendelinsky
https://gradle.org/whats-new/gradle-5/
======
iamdanfox
This is a huge achievement - props to the Gradle maintainers for delivering so
much with such careful adherence to backcompat! I’ve had two
enableFeaturePreview lines in my repos for a few weeks now and it made
upgrading to Gradle 5.0 a zero manual action upgrade!
~~~
vorg
Backcompat is important, but even better is using the new features Gradle 5.0
ships with, e.g. the production-ready Gradle Kotlin DSL 1.0 which you can
convert to (from Apache Groovy) if you want code completion, error
highlighting, and simple refactoring when you write your build DSL's.
See [https://guides.gradle.org/migrating-build-logic-from-
groovy-...](https://guides.gradle.org/migrating-build-logic-from-groovy-to-
kotlin)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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OKCupid will make people use real names on their dating profiles - ValentineC
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/22/16810128/okcupid-remove-usernames-real-name-policy
======
mariojv
What's the point of this, other than "nicknames are hard to remember?" Not a
rhetorical question, since that seems to be the main point brought up in the
article. Presumably, there's some other problem they're trying to solve with
this.
Anecdote: I found seeing the various usernames on the platform quite nice when
I used OKCupid a few years ago. When my now-husband and I met on the site,
some of our first discussions were about why we chose the usernames we did.
~~~
maxander
One reason and one only- to make it easier to sell user information. OKC has
detailed, directly-stayed information on all its users’ likes and dislikes, of
a sort second second only to that generated by Facebook ( _maybe_.). If they
(or some marketing analytics firm working with them) can figure out a way to
connect your user profile made on your laptop to you as an Amazon shopper on
your cellphone, that’s worth Big Bucks. Having a real first name makes this
easier- and also makes the reliability of the process sound more convincing to
executives who still don’t, deep in their bones, trust statistical techniques.
~~~
vuln
If it's a paid account then they would already have that information. Is the
quality of data they will mine from the free accounts worth it? I don't know.
If you have the app installed they can already see your location and what not.
Just seems like a bad move.
------
xg15
So they've smartly circumvented the obvious privacy problem by only requiring
first names, not full names. However, "real life" first names tend to be a lot
less varied and unique than screen names. So how are people supposed to
distinguish between dozens of Steves, Bobs and Annas?
~~~
grouseway
Maybe for white people. But I count 142K unique first names in a database of
3300K people for the very multicultural province of BC Canada.
~~~
pluto9
_Maybe for white people._
You mean culturally homogeneous people. I guarantee those names are arranged
in a Pareto distribution, in which the vast majority belong to tiny numbers of
people, while everyone else has names that are common within their culture, be
they Michael or Mohammed.
But I presume you're one of those delightful "white people are
boring/unoriginal/have no culture" folks, so carry on.
------
kjrose
Since OKCupid isn’t going to be asking people for their drivers license or
birth certificate anytime soon to validate the names. All this means is that
instead of hotstud799898. You can be Hughe G Dickerson.
Basically an easier to read name.
------
unforswearing
the OkCupid blog post/announcement has some discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15985368](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15985368)
------
horsecaptin
You can set your first name to be AllAboutBass and it'll be a-okay.
------
DrScump
Pro tip: they accept "First" as a first name.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Let’s improve commuter rail service between Providence and Boston - chmaynard
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opinion/dear-gov-raimondo-express-trains-wrong-ask/
======
davexunit
I would love for MA to improve the Worcester-Framingham commuter rail line,
too. The infrastructure feels so dated. The trains are slow, infrequent, and
are late or broken too often, so I just drive in the terrible Boston traffic
instead. I would love to take the train if I could. Even the fastest train
from Worcester to Boston, a single express train, takes an hour. But most
likely your schedule can't align with that train (I wouldn't get on at the
terminal station so I can't ride it) so you have to take an even slower one.
~~~
ng12
The Fitchburg line is even worse because you have to slog through the Concord
rotary if you chose to drive. I'd love to see the face on one of my
Californian friends driving on Route 2 -- nowhere else have I ever encountered
a 55mph highway that ends at a stoplight.
~~~
jcranmer
Breezewood, PA is pretty infamous: I-70 has a stoplight with US-30, where you
turn right, go through a second stoplight, turn right again, and then get back
on I-70. It and the I-78 approach to the Holland Tunnel are the only two
places where the interstate has a traffic light, although the road is 35mph
immediately in front of it in PA (I don't know what the speed limit of the NJ
road is).
Freeways ending in stoplights are actually fairly common, although they
usually have lots of advance warning saying "FREEWAY ENDS." 50mph and 55mph
roads having stoplights on them aren't particularly uncommon, particularly in
rural areas.
~~~
smoyer
I70 joins I76 (the Pennsylvania turnpike) in Breezewood, so traffic would be
slowed at the toll-booths even if a proper intersection was built. I suspect
that there was some political wrangling that resulted in the US30 transition
though - the truck-stops, restaurants and tourist-traps are loving it!
------
chmaynard
I'm posting this editorial because CalTrain riders need to know that commuter
rail in New England faces many of the same problems. CalTrain also has the
additional challenge of eliminating its grade crossings. The cost of that
improvement would probably bankrupt CalTrain, but it needs to happen.
~~~
idreyn
It actually will happen, eventually, as a result of the California HSR
project: [http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2012/12/grade-separation-
de...](http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2012/12/grade-separation-decadal-
view.html)
------
niftich
These are good recommendations, because in the greater scheme of things these
are (relatively) small expenditures that can greatly improve level-of-service.
Many European commuter rail systems -- or mainline rail segments that end up
hosting predominantly commuter traffic --- run EMUs and have renovated their
stations with level-boarding platforms.
------
kevinburke
Advocating for these types of boring improvements is a good way to make a
difference with your local City Council or transit organization.
------
bkeroack
In my experience, Boston to Providence is pretty fast and pleasant. The issue
is the rest of the way to NYC, which crawls through Connecticut at a snail's
pace and takes something like 3.5 hours. It's a pretty brutal trip.
~~~
sitkack
At least it isn't Fung Wah.
~~~
roymurdock
RIP $5 Boston-> NYC trips with dudes literally getting on the bus carrying
chickens in cages
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/fung-wah-bus-
comp...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/fung-wah-bus-company-
closes-doors-good-n394026)
~~~
dsfyu404ed
This.
If you were willing to put up with the downsides the price couldn't be beat.
------
yosito
My understanding is that the reason the US doesn't have better rail service is
because the auto industry lobbies the government to direct subsidies toward
roads rather than railways. I've seen many cities wanting to improve commuter
rail services, but until we get rid of the auto industry's influence, this is
an uphill battle.
~~~
Aloha
Rail service isn't practicable in most of the country, even at 200 miles an
hour, NY to Chicago is still a long long trip.
~~~
krallja
At 200 miles an hour, NY to Chicago is less than four hours.
It takes about an hour total for transportation between downtowns and the
airports; you need to be at the airport about an hour ahead of your flight;
the flight itself is 2 and a half hours.
So, a 200mph train would be _faster_ for most travelers.
~~~
jcranmer
> At 200 miles an hour, NY to Chicago is less than four hours.
Assuming you can a) maintain that speed the entire length and b) there are no
stops along the route. A long-distance point-to-point HSR system is simply not
cost-effective, particularly when you've got a geographic barrier like the
Appalachians. That's what makes Chicago so problematic for HSR: the Midwest
ends up being a region where no city is particularly close to being "on the
way" between any other city pairing.
~~~
dheera
The Appalachians aren't particularly an insurmountable barrier. Japan,
Switzerland, China, and France all have much bigger and more formidable
mountains than the Appalachians.
The real problem is:
\- Not enough government funding for mass transit projects
\- Not enough people supporting government funding
\- Too much power at the city level and not enough power at the state/national
level for transportation projects
\- Terrible UX and not enough city-level public transit infrastructure. When
you exit the train station in most of the above countries, you are greeted
with a properly air-conditioned/heated waiting hall, delicious food, hotels
within walkable distance, and buses/subway to anywhere you would need to go.
In a LOT of US cities when you exit the train station you are greeted with a
massive parking lot and not even so much as a restroom. (Okay, Boston, New
York, Chicago, and Washington are fine, but they are quite the exception. Most
other cities suck.) Even if California gets the high-speed rail going any time
soon to Los Angeles, the fact is that it's stupidly hard to get around
anywhere in LA without a car, so I don't imagine it getting much ridership
until that problem is solved (maybe by autonomous cars, maybe not).
~~~
jcranmer
Appalachians aren't insurmountable as a geographic barrier, particularly
because there's a very easy topographical shortcut by going next to the Erie
Canal. What makes it really challenging is the lack of lesser-tier cities to
plug into the network, combined with the sheer length.
Put another way, the distance between Chicago and New York is roughly 700mi as
the crow flies. The distance between Edinburgh and London is 330mi, Calais and
Marseilles 550mi, Zurich and Copenhagen 600mi, Milan and Calabria 600mi,
Shanghai and Beijing 650mi, Hiroshima and Sendai 530mi. You're looking at a
distance that's longer literally than the longest axis of most European
countries, and at a much more sparsely populated region than the linear
corridors of other countries that have axes that long.
NY/Chicago is on the edge of viability in terms of distance. As the crow
flies, you're talking a 3½ hour trip minimum; as you actually build it, a non-
stop express is looking like at least 4-4½ hours. The most feasible route with
intermediate stops (via Pittsburgh and Philly) is around 860 miles, an even
longer trip. If the trip were on pretty much flat, featureless terrain, the
cost and time could both be kept small, but the mountainous terrain means
you're generally on the worse ends of the estimate.
That's the biggest problem with the US: our cities are just simply too far
apart for HSR to be viable in most of the country. And where they aren't, they
tend to be in the worst pattern for utilizing HSR effectively.
~~~
wbl
We put a man on the moon, and you're telling me we can't make a train go
faster than the Shanghai maglev?
~~~
niftich
There is not much point; the engineering and construction is extremely
expensive (and more so in the US [1][2][3][4][5][6]), and there's perfectly
good sunk-cost airports that let airlines operate this route at a variety of
price-points today.
[1] [https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/6/4/this-is-why-
inf...](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/6/4/this-is-why-
infrastructure-is-so-expensive) [2]
[https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-04-08/why-u-
s-i...](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-04-08/why-u-s-
infrastructure-costs-so-much) [3] [http://fortune.com/2017/01/23/us-
infrastructure-renewal-buil...](http://fortune.com/2017/01/23/us-
infrastructure-renewal-building-transportation-donald-trump/) [4]
[https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/04/7-reasons-us-
infrastruc...](https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/04/7-reasons-us-
infrastructure-projects-cost-way-more-they-should/8799/) [5]
[http://theweek.com/articles/449646/why-expensive-build-
bridg...](http://theweek.com/articles/449646/why-expensive-build-bridge-
america) [6]
[http://marroninstitute.nyu.edu/blog/is-u.s.-infrastructure-m...](http://marroninstitute.nyu.edu/blog/is-u.s.-infrastructure-
more-expensive)
~~~
wbl
Sounds like the US needs to stop sucking at this.
------
chmaynard
I'm traveling to Norway soon for a short vacation and I'm looking forward to
using Oslo's public transit and regional rail network. Apparently it's an
award-winning, world-class system.
~~~
dheera
Most Northern European systems are absolutely amazing. Not only do things just
work, but their attention to detail and design is also top-notch. In most
places the fonts, kerning, colors, lighting, everything is just very pleasing
to the graphic designer eye. Sometimes you feel like you've stepped into an
app.
~~~
SOLAR_FIELDS
Indeed. Take for example the City Tunnel in Malmö which finished ahead of time
and a million dollars under budget[1]. At Triangeln it has dancing lights on
the walls that are somewhat mesmerizing[2].
1:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Tunnel_(Malmö)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Tunnel_\(Malmö\))
2:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6tJb9TwY1k](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6tJb9TwY1k)
~~~
Sharlin
> a million dollars under budget
A _hundred_ million, surely? 1e9 SEK under the projected cost of 9.5e9 SEK.
~~~
SOLAR_FIELDS
Whoops you are correct, dropped a zero or two there. Makes it even more
impressive.
------
dsfyu404ed
This is all fine and good. Just don't improve it between Boston and any city
you expect people to be able to afford to buy a house in.
------
tabeth
I'm 100% against new tracks being laid or any more capital expenditures to the
MBTA (anyone who goes on the Red Line during rush hour, or the commuter rail
during the winter knows it sucks). The current system needs better
maintenance, first.
Here's one solution: create a new express lane on existing highways by
removing a lane or repurposing the existing HOV lane. Make this new lane have
a 80mph speed limit. Only allow buses. There you go.
This would have a higher average speed than all existing public transportation
systems in the United States. No need to build any rail.
\---
As long as "undesirables" can easily go to your town via public
transportation, NIMBYs will shut it down. See the Red Line extension to
Arlington. Those folks are regretting that now.
Disclaimer: I live in Massachusetts -- both the above, and the OP will never
happen. It's just _too hard_ to justify the capital expenses. In the case of
improved service you would think it's easy, but once you consider the commuter
rail is already underutilized it's hard to imagine.
Heck, they were even going to end weekend service for the commuter rail.
[http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/03/13/mbta-weekend-commuter-
ra...](http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/03/13/mbta-weekend-commuter-rail-premium-
ride-trip-cuts)
~~~
crzwdjk
The point is that the rail is already there, and the rail line is already
pretty much the best in the US, and already has electrification, that the
commuter rail trains don't use for entirely stupid reasons. And sure, buses
are great, but one comumter rail train carries the same number of passengers
as literally 20 buses. Given that the tracks to Providence are already there,
some relatively minor improvements can make the trains suck much less. Your
bus idea on the other hand seems like a good alternative to the South Coast
Rail boondoggle.
~~~
tabeth
Sure, but why should the MBTA care about the Providence Line in particular, as
opposed to say, Worcester or other parts of Massachusetts?
~~~
srj
It's the most traveled line.
~~~
tabeth
Sure, but by that logic, why not extend rapid transit -- it's far more
traveled than all of the commuter rail lines combined.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Microsoft's Stephen Elop moves to Nokia -- what a waste - mindblink
http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Microsofts-Stephen-Elop-moves-to-Nokia-what-a-waste/1284136468
======
rbanffy
IMHO, Nokia has to give up on Maemo/Moblin, keep Symbian (but fix it, please)
for low-end smartphones (because in a couple years that's the only kind of
phone there will be) and adopt Android on the high-end smartphone line and
differentiate on hardware (theirs has always been excellent). Maemo/Moblin is
going nowhere fast and there is no space for more OSs in this space right now.
If they can fix Symbian and make cheap smartphones that are feature-
competitive with Androids, they can also bypass telcos and sell direct to
customers.
But that's just my advice. It's unlikely he will follow it.
------
IMorgothI12
Symbian is a dead broken horse with an outdated kernel. They should instead
buy RIM or license Android.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What is a good price for software that you license to schools? - wahwah
I have an idea for a piece of software that could be utilized by middle and high schools. The software would be run on my server. Basically I would charge each school a fee to let all of their students use the software. I was thinking of charging them a monthly or annual fee, what do you think a reasonable price would be?<p>I really have no idea how much companies charge for this sort of thing.
======
fractallyte
Find out how school budgets work, and know who you're selling to.
If you intend to enter at the whole-school level, you'll probably be dealing
with school managers or the school district, and annual software subscriptions
are often in the range of hundreds of dollars, or greater. It can be tough to
deal in this area (politics, 'preferred' partners, etc.).
Particular departments (math, science, history, etc.) have more limited
capitation, but there's usually less bureaucracy. So if you're marketing
toward a particular subject, it may make sense to approach a department head
and find out what their needs and resources are.
(Note that this is not country-specific, so it really depends on where you
are...)
In any case, you must know your market! Find out how much other educational
software companies charge, attend expos, and (if possible) try to meet
teachers or school managers as part of your effort to set a realistic
(affordable) price.
------
b1twise_
I've worked at a fairly affluent private school, so I'll give you feedback
based on that. However, you don't really give enough information for me to
tell you what your product might be worth to a school.
\- Charge annually. Schools are full of paperwork and approval processes. A
once a year ritual of approval is easier than agreeing to a monthly bill.
\- If it's less than 1k there's a lot less friction towards approval.
Caveats are that schools do prefer to host their own software (usually on
windows) and can be willing to shell out large amounts of money for the right
product (Blackbaud).
------
masterzora
This is impossibly little information to go on. What's the idea? What kind of
competition exists? Are you targeting the more moneyed schools, the less
moneyed, the in between, all of them? What are the costs to you? Is this
something schools need (or can you convince them it is), is it just a "nice to
have", or is it more of a "well, we need to spend this year's budget somehow"?
There's not nearly enough information here to remotely begin answering that
question.
------
mindcrime
My advice: go read @sgblank's _The Four Steps to the Epiphany_ first.
That said, pricing is a very complex subject... volumes (literally) have been
written on pricing theory. There isn't any easy, off-the-cuff answer.
~~~
abbasmehdi
There is one easy answer: optimize revenue by tweaking this differential:
revenue = profit margin * volume.
------
plasma
I'd first work out how much its costing you to produce / maintain / support :)
------
abbasmehdi
Go talk to a school...
------
wrjrpn
What's the value of your product?
------
abbasmehdi
What are you building?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
PayPal chief reams employees: Use our app or quit - Kynlyn
http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/11/paypal-chief-reams-employees-use-our-app-or-quit/
======
mikeryan
This is really one of those things that look, in principal, to be a simple
fix. "Why are our employees not eating our own dog food".
The part he's missing is the question, "Why aren't our employees so passionate
about our product that they use it constantly in an effort to make it
better?".
He's missing a deeper morale issue, and compounding it with his attitude.
~~~
outworlder
It could be that, or they have seen the sausage being made and are steering
clear of it.
~~~
nobodysfool
Well, I give my boss the ability to deposit money into my account. I would not
willingly give my boss the ability to withdraw money from my account. I think
that would explain a lot of the trepidation.
------
panarky
So doing your job isn't enough for PayPal.
Now you have to show loyalty. And enthusiasm. And hack on the product in your
free time. And install your employer's app on your personal devices.
An app that knows your personal financial details, tracks your fine-grained
location, reads your personal contacts and SD storage, and can transmit all of
this to your employer[0].
Will PayPal also go above and beyond the employment relationship for their
employees? Will they show the same loyalty in return[1]?
[0]
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paypal.her...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paypal.here&hl=en)
[1] [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-12/paypal-said-to-
be-c...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-12/paypal-said-to-be-cutting-
as-many-as-400-jobs.html)
~~~
jrochkind1
Yep, I understand why a company would want employees who do all those things.
Employees who do all those things is a great signal that you are on the right
track, and some of those things in and of themselves will produce benefits for
your product, sure.
But you can't get those things just by ordering your employees to do them.
Even if you somehow get your employees to pretend to have loyalty and
enthusiasm by ordering them to, that is -not- a signal that you're on the
right path, and won't produce those benefits.
~~~
nobodysfool
Yea, I agree with Marcus's message: Dogfood our products! But I don't agree
with his methodology for achieving it: chiding workers. What he should have
done is require feedback from all workers on why they do or don't use the app
(they can use third party anonymous surveys for that).
------
meritt
Alternatively he could just hold their paychecks hostage like Paypal does with
everyone else's money.
~~~
rmc
That really wouldn't last long in court.
~~~
mgkimsal
Perhaps just like they're not really a "bank", they could try to argue they're
not really an "employer", and are really "paying" their workers, so they're
not subject to normal behaviors.
~~~
rmc
Sure, they can claim that all they want. A judge would look at it for about 5
seconds and say "You're an employer." and that would be that.
~~~
FireBeyond
I don’t feel the parent ever intended his observation to be a sincere
suggestion ...
~~~
mgkimsal
Now you're on the trolley!
------
chadwickthebold
I think it's really disappointing when company heads do this. If you work
there, you should be treated as a professional, not some little kid who gets
overly excited and tries to break open the coke machine because hey - PayPal.
If you want your software devs to go the extra mile either make a product that
they can organically care about, or pay them more and make it part of their
job description to evangelize your product.
Also, that PayPal 'it' thing seems pretty scummy. Do the engineers get some
financial incentive for generating sales leads for the home office?
~~~
ItendToDisagree
The idea of getting vending machines to accept PayPal seems ridiculous. What
are the fees on a 0.65 cent candy bar? Does that leave any profit at all for
the operator/owner of the machine?
Or am I missing something there? I'm interested to know more about that
'hacking' of a Coke machine he is referring to. Anyone have a link?
------
mgkimsal
"some of you refused to install the PayPal app"
They may have some legitimate concerns about what the software actually does,
records about them, etc. I'm not saying it's necessarily right or wrong, but
there may be more at play than just "I hate working here - this sucks".
There are some things I probably _can 't_ install, as my primary device is
still on ios5. Would I penalized for not upgrading my whole device just to
show some company spirit?
Also... if they're testing out "paying with mobile", they're never going to
get 100% acceptance rate. Real world scenarios, not everyone will have your
app or install it just for that transaction. Seems this is actually a good
'real world' test of what it's like on the front lines, and yelling at your
potential customers for not using your app isn't the way to go.
~~~
sophacles
One of the "more at play" things I could imagine: I don't want my employer to
know about how I choose to spend my money. It's not their business, and having
my employer have such a detailed understanding of my personal life is not
remotely desirable. It's like forcing employees to give social media access to
you, but even more invasive.
~~~
mgkimsal
Excellent point - should have been a top-level response. If I worked at a
bank, I might choose to keep my money there, but I might choose to bank
somewhere else for any myriad reasons, and should not be punished for it. If I
worked for Fidelity, I might want to keep an IRA with Vanguard - again, should
not be punished.
For a CEO to not grasp the ramifications of having access to employees'
financial records - or perhaps not caring - shows a disturbing side to this
man. I would strongly suspect he doesn't use paypal for everything he
purchases.
------
jobu
The title of the article seems like linkbait. What Marcus said was: _" In
closing, if you are one of the folks who refused to install the PayPal app or
if you can’t remember your PayPal password, do yourself a favor, go find
something that will connect with your heart and mind elsewhere."_
Pretty similar message, but the title makes him sound like an asshole when the
actual text seems more reasonable. If you're not willing to use the products
you make, then how can you expect anyone else to use them.
~~~
raganwald
I agree, let's flip this around and think like customers. We go out to choose
a vendor for some important service.
Vendors A and B have roughly equal parity on features and services, but vendor
A's employees eat their own dogfood and vendor B's don't.
Now in one sense, who cares? Eating your own dogfood is a means to an end, not
the end itself, so it's like finding out that McDonalds employees don't eat
McDonalds food. As long as they wash their hands, who cares what they eat
themselves?
But on the other hand, I'm a human being, and I'm personally a lot more
comfortable doing business with a company that seems to care about its product
from top to bottom, and isn't staffed with people who don't like their own
product enough to use it.
~~~
jrochkind1
Yes, employees that use their own product generally a great and encouraging
sign.
But what if you find out that the employees at company A use their own product
only because the CEO ordered them to do it or get fired, and they actually
hate the product themselves too?
No longer quite so encouraging.
They are mistaking the indicator for the thing indicated. Dogfooding is an
indicator of quality and commitment when it happens naturally; when you
artificially compel the indicator, it's no longer a good indicator.
~~~
bigtunacan
I think you are missing the point of the "eat your own dog food" mantra that
originated from Joel Spolsky. No one wants to literally eat dog food as we all
imagine it would taste terrible. The same holds true for your product. That
product you have been working on for your company, whoever it may be, is
total, utter, garbage, and if you have to eat it everyday you will realize it
tastes terrible.
The more you use the product, the more aware you become that your product is
bad, and this is necessary to make it less bad. And this is true of every
product out there; even products, services, etc... that people hold up as
"good", they still have room for improvement. If the people responsible for
creating that product can't put in the time to use the product so they can
feel their customers' pain and improve the product, then they should just move
on.
~~~
greenyoda
It didn't originate with Joel Spolsky. "Eating your own dogfood" was already a
meme at Microsoft when Spolsky arrived there (1991), and that's where he
probably picked it up from. Wikipedia attributes it to Paul Maritz:
_" In 1988, Microsoft manager Paul Maritz sent Brian Valentine, test manager
for Microsoft LAN Manager, an email titled 'Eating our own Dogfood',
challenging him to increase internal usage of the company's product. From
there, the usage of the term spread through the company."_
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food#Origi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food#Origin_of_the_term)
~~~
bigtunacan
Point still stands, but thanks for the "Well Actually".
[http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html](http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html)
------
x0054
I have been using PayPal for 10 years or so. I use my iPhone all the time, in
fact I am typing this on it right now. I shop on eBay all the time on my
phone. I pay for a bunch of things online using PayPal. And I DO NOT have the
Paypal app installed on my phone. Why? Because its unnecessary. PayPal, the
service, works just fine without PayPal, the app.
If PayPal truly wants to grow their business, they should improve
significantly their merchant relations, not their app.
------
hardwaresofton
I don't know how to feel about this. I feel like the sentiment is right (eat
your own dog food -- if that's the saying)... But everything about the
delivery seems to be wrong
~~~
avenger123
I like the delivery. There is little "corporate speak" and a lot of frankness.
He's not calling out a particular person but a whole office.
I don't see this as a "reams employees" type of email. He's making his case
for why everyone should be using PayPal's apps.
His telling employees to go elsewhere if their heart isn't into it is also
refreshing.
This is exactly the type of email I would expect from someone at his level
that isn't trying to play the "everyone please like me" game and is actually
trying to move things forward.
------
vitd
“We’re getting back to our technology and innovation roots, and we really want
to be driving the best customer experiences that are possible,” the spokesman
told VentureBeat.
Yeah, maybe if you took the customer experience seriously by, you know,
responding to people's emails, having a human being customers can talk to, and
not holding their money hostage, you'd be doing better? Just a thought.
------
watwut
How companies alienate their employees. Chapter: David Marcus, PayPal.
Somehow, I doubt you can make people enthusiastic by threatening them or
yelling at them (figuratively). Then again, I'm not a CEO.
------
mgkimsal
"And part of that is having every employee be the customer and utilize our
services wherever you can, and if you see a problem, highlight it and tell
people to get it fixed. And that’s something we do a lot."
If it really worked, that'd be great. Instead of yelling at people who don't
use the tools and programs, I'd suggest a review of those tools and processes,
and a public rundown of the findings and improvements to those services. If
people are spotting problems, reporting those to be fixed, and _nothing gets
done_ , or perhaps they're told to go pound sand, people will quit reporting
problems. That very well may be the case (I've seen it happen at companies),
and the CEO/President needs to get in to that part of the company and root out
if in fact there is a problem in that part of operations.
If there is a problem, fix _that_ and promote it. If there is no problem, they
need to do a better job of promoting the case studies of things that were
reported/fixed/improved. This will send a bigger message than public berating
for not using stuff that may be broken. Those workers still have jobs to do,
and if using the PP tools doesn't get the job done, and they're now expected
to do bug reports as well as use broken/poor tools, you've just made
everyone's job a lot worse.
------
justin66
If you can remember your password - for PayPal or whatever else - you are
probably doing it wrong. Use a password manager, so you only have to remember
one password, and can have distinct, strong passwords for everything.
I have to admit that I wondered when I read that CEO tirade (and not knowing
what the hell Cafe 17 is) if his employees couldn't remember their PayPal
passwords in a testing situation for a fairly legitimate reason, being away
from their computers and therefore their password managers.
------
outworlder
"Offices with under 100 employees beat us by an order of magnitude "
Hmm. I sense a connection here. But I'm not a CEO, so what do I know.
------
RTigger
"It’s a bit ironic considering that yesterday Marcus took to Twitter to say
his credit card was hacked. So clearly not all hacking is acceptable in
Marcus’ book — only hacking that supports the company’s business objectives."
_sigh_.
~~~
mynd
Agreed. Someone needs to create a PSA about the term "Hacking" in the 21st
century.
~~~
RTigger
[http://rtigger.com/blog/2012/11/19/redefining-
hacker](http://rtigger.com/blog/2012/11/19/redefining-hacker)
------
drakaal
He's Captain Kirk's abandoned bastard son, he has some anger issues, you would
too.
[http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/David_Marcus](http://en.memory-
alpha.org/wiki/David_Marcus)
~~~
ItendToDisagree
Wow. I hadn't seen him before and his picture screamed Gaius Baltar
(Battlestar Galactica) / Julian Bashir (Deep Space 9) to me. The Sci-Fi is
strong with this one.
------
dcpdx
I closed my PayPal account a few months ago and will never use them again. I
had transferred $300 from my bank account to my PayPal account to pay for a
weekend outing I was attending, and once the money was in my PP balance I
transferred it to my buddy along with the $10 fee. So far, so good.
A few weeks later, I started getting emails and calls almost daily about past
due payments for my PayPal balance, which I was confused about since I used my
own funds and thought that was the end of it. Turns out, PayPal charged that
$300 to my credit account with them instead of taking it out of my balance, so
now I owed an extra $300 and had to pay interest and late payment fees. When I
called in to customer service to ask what was going on, it took me almost an
hour to finally reach someone and they told me there was nothing they could
do.
After that, I paid my remaining balance, closed my account and never looked
back. I've since used Venmo, Square, bank transfers, and good ol cash to
accept payments from friends, but I will NEVER use PayPal again in my life.
Fuck them.
------
runamok
If they didn't use dark patterns
([http://darkpatterns.org/](http://darkpatterns.org/)) such as always
defaulting to your bank account instead of your credit card (which
inconveniences me but makes them more money) maybe more of their people would
use paypal.
This regards the web payment flow experience and not necessarily the app.
------
puppetmaster3
How motivational: “It’s been brought to my attention
------
vidoc
That's pretty funny!
Reminds me when I worked for Yahoo couple of years ago, I was not even working
for the search team, but one day I got busted by a product manager of that
team who saw me googling. That chick sermonized me and said that engineers
were people with great technical influence and if I wanted yahoo search to be
successful, people around me _had_ to see me use it. I tried to make the point
that the path to success for a product is to make it better in the first
place, but that didn't fly for her.
It was also pretty funny to see all those hypocrites use Yahoo Mail while on
the campus only to switch back to Gmail in the company shuttle :)
I love capitalism!
~~~
mgkimsal
"engineers were people with great technical influence and if I wanted yahoo
search to be successful, people around me had to see me use it."
Insane. If anything your time might be more valuable than someone else's, and
if you can get your job done faster with google or bing, get the job done as
efficiently as possible. Using Yahoo on campus, then using google off campus
is even _worse_ , because it gives the impression that it's solving your needs
when it's clearly not.
------
dman
Reminds me of the "Wear 15 pieces of flair" scene from Office Space.
------
bronsoja
Lovely to see venturebeat sowing more confusion around sensible usage of the
word 'hacking'.
------
sneak
Square, on the other hand, lets their own employees work in their own cafe
using their own product in exactly the way their customers do:
[http://sprudge.com/secret-square-cafe.html](http://sprudge.com/secret-square-
cafe.html)
------
joesmo
Seems like Paypal employees are all too aware of Paypal's draconian polices
and don't want to lose their money. I don't blame them.
------
nayefc
Isn't this a wake up call that PayPal juts sucks?
------
sdegutis
Not everyone makes online payments, some people have no need for PayPal's
services. Should they be denied their job just because of that?
------
alimoeeny
"That’s unacceptable to me, and the rest of my team" :)
------
carsongross
The product stagnation will continue until morale improves!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Anyone have experience with PayPal Claims for services? - webdesigner
I'm a web designer (new account but old member) and I've got a sticky situation relating to PayPal that I'd like to get other's feedback on.<p>THE SHORT VERSION<p>A client commissions services, paid 1/2 deposit through PayPal and within 6 days changed his mind and requested a refund on the basis that I wasn't responsive (untrue) and wasn't meeting my deadlines (again, untrue.) By the time they requested a refund, I had already done most of the work and had spent about 2/3 of the deposit on purchasing software needed for the project. The sticky part is that the project was so small I didn't create a contract. They filed a dispute, we went back and forth and eventually they escalated to a PayPal claim. In my response to the claim, I included a link to a PDF that contains all emails exchanged, that clearly shows that I'm not missing my deadlines and the longest gap between any email he sent and my response was about 20 hours. In addition, my last email to him contains a link to a working prototype of the website.<p>Anyone else have any experience with PayPal claims when they apply to services instead of shippable products?<p>THE LONG VERSION<p>I was commissioned by someone to build a website that was a membership-only job board that used WordPress and a few plugins to add the membership and job board functionality.<p>This happened on Day 1 (a sunday). On that day, the client paid a 1/2 deposit of $750 for the project using PayPal. After he paid, I sent him an email saying I'd have a prototype running by mid-end of the coming week.<p>I started creating a wireframe on Tuesday but soon realized that it would be better to setup a real site, add the plugins and go from there.<p>On Wednesday I bought the WordPress plugins (costing me $500) and started setting up the website. I got most of the functionality working but not all.<p>On Thursday I got an email from the client asking how the project was going. However, I had a lot going on that day so I wasn't able to respond on Thursday. I intended on emailing him but it just didn't happen so I figured I'd just email him on Friday to let him know that instead of a prototype, I'd have a working, functional version running by Monday.<p>On Friday around mid-day, I got an email from PayPal saying the client had filed a dispute. I emailed him immediately saying that I decided not to create screenshots but instead decided to create a working version immediately and that I'd have a real site by Monday. I figured it would put him at ease and calm things down.<p>Instead, he insisted on a refund claiming that I hadn't kept to my own deadline. This isn't true as I had clearly stated the project would take "3-4 weeks" (I put that in quotes as those were my exact words.) I replied back using the PayPal dispute system in a very courteous and professional manner, trying kindly to work out the situation as I've already done most of the work and want to get paid the 2nd half of the project.<p>After a number of messages going back and forth, mostly restating the same things, he escalated it to a claim. I was going to clean up the site tomorrow and send it to him but instead I sent him an email today with a link to it (in case his claim that I promised something this week holds any water.)<p>As my response to the claim, I included all my reasons for not offering the refund and created a PDF of all our email exchanges, uploaded it online and included the url as part of the response.<p>What it seems like to me is that they might have found someone cheaper to do the project (there are always bottom feeders) and they are looking for a way to get of the project while keeping their deposit. I would have refunded the project if he had simply said he had changed his mind and wanted to work out a way to get out of the project. Instead, he elected to make it look like I haven't served him well and his tone as well as approach just doesn't sit right with me. When combined with the fact that I've spent my money to make the project come together as well as my time, I've decided not to willingly refund the money.<p>What I'm wondering is what other's experience are with PayPal claims, ideally when relating to services. Shippable projects are so clear cut. It was either shipped or wasn't. This seems like there is a lot of gray area. I'm just trying to get my head around what to expect.
======
rms
Expect Paypal to take your money. Paypal basically screws sellers when there
is no physical deliverable. Bizarrely, you would have a much better chance of
keeping your money if you FedEx overnighted the client an empty envelope and
then could give Paypal that tracking number.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My quest for better WordPress SEO plugin - kevinhq
https://kevinhq.com/the-quest-for-better-seo-plugins/
======
mtmail
So the author looked for a better plugin, tried it, then decided to still use
the current one. Followed by "I don’t mention the name of those SEO plugins on
purpose. I don’t want to promote or demote any of them." As a reader I'm not
sure I learned anything here.
~~~
Jim-
I feel like I just wasted a little bit of my morning
------
huxflux
Waste.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stealth Research and Theranos: Reflections and Update 1 Year Later - mmastrac
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2524161
======
danso
I would love to hear more of the reasoning as to why Theranos thought Dr.
Ionnadis, famous for being hugely skeptical of medical research claims [0],
would be someone to reach out to (assuming they weren't intending to just buy
him out). There are plenty of other medical experts who would have cooperated
with Theranos (given its pedigree) before the WSJ investigation.
[0]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/?report=...](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/?report=classic)
~~~
w1ntermute
Holmes probably (delusionally) believed she could convince Ioannidis to recant
his comments in the February 2015 JAMA article regarding "the rationale for
promoting massive diagnostic testing," and maybe even the criticism of stealth
research, by demonstrating how ground-breaking their technology was, and that
the IP needed to be "protected."
At its time of publication, that article was (I believe) the only one in the
scientific literature that said anything about Theranos, and the company
seemed to be pretty disconnected from the mainstream biotech research
community. Holmes was probably only vaguely aware of Ioannidis' background.
------
chmaynard
Theranos needs to prove that a blood sample oozing from an open wound (a
finger prick) is in any way comparable to sterile blood extracted directly
from a vein. They also need to show that analyzing a diluted and contaminated
blood sample with the Siemens instrument produces an accurate result.
At this point, I think we should assume that because Theranos won't publish
any studies about the scientific foundations of their work in peer-reviewed
journals or preprint sites, they have nothing of value to show us.
------
Aelinsaar
I maintain that as this story continues to unfold, it will contain a serious
criminal element at its core.
~~~
atomical
Are you an expert?
~~~
Aelinsaar
Did I claim to be?
~~~
tokensimian
While you make no explicit claim, I suppose the responder was reacting to your
opener of "I maintain".
That implies you have been saying this all along, in a forum that we would
expect to have heard it, but yet you have not been heeded.
In my perspective, there is an element to your statement that is claiming
authority, thus making you appear as a self-proclaimed expert.
~~~
dekhn
This is overinterpretation.
Also, I agree that it seems likely Ms. Holmes will face criminal charges. It
would have been one thing if Theranos simply substituted venous blood draws
for nanodraws, pivoting to not use Edison. However, they not only did that,
they denied this publicly, promised to release data showing the validity of
their platform (neither of this are lawsuit-worthy) and then proceeded to
provide false test results at a very high rate. The problem here is that Ms.
Holmes would have to have known of this- she's the CEO of the company, in very
tight contact with the labs, etc, holds nearly all the power, and is the
ultimate decider. Because of that, she is the direct target of lawsuits.
I expect both government action (which is already ongoing; it's likely she
will be sanctioned) and class action lawsuit.
Obviously, the above is speculation, based on my intuition of watching
biotechs for 20+ years.
------
Animats
Stealth research is a byproduct of the weakening of the patent system. It used
to be that, for something like this, you got a patent before talking to VCs.
This allowed more review of whether the technology actually works.
Now we have VC money being invested based on how well someone can pitch. This
doesn't work for things which are technically hard. Hence Theranos, uBeam, and
possibly Cruise.
~~~
petra
Has the patent system really weakend ? or it's simply that today, the options
to build something are so varied, and people have more knowledge of that, so
you cannot patent them all ?
~~~
Animats
At least three things made it much more expensive to enforce a patent:
1\. The America Invents Act (2011), with its new post-grant review provisions.
Now, if you try to enforce a patent, the infringer can tie you up for a few
years with review proceedings, which means the inventor has to spend money to
defend the patent.
2\. The _eBay Inc. v. MercExchange, L.L.C._ decision (2006), which made patent
infringement injunctions much harder to get. This decision basically means
that the worst thing that can happen to an infringer is that someday they have
to pay royalties. It's essentially compulsory licensing of patents. So
infringers have no incentive to negotiate.
3\. The _In re Seagate Tech_ decision (2007) and some related decisions
changed the standard for willful infringement (and triple damages) to include
a requirement of "reckless disregard", which is almost impossible to prove.
These decisions also reduced the power of juries in patent cases.
It's also harder to get discovery in patent cases now, which means that if
infringement can be kept a secret, it's usually possible to get away with it.
------
radnam
"The problem that some patients do not have tests performed when they
genuinely need them is also real but probably of lesser magnitude."
Anecdotally speaking, I have seen many instances when testing was
procrastinated only to reveal a chronic condition (hypothyroidism, pre-
diabetic sugar levels) needing immediate attention sometimes with medications.
I am genetically disposed to hyperlipidemia and like to watch my cholesterol
level as a tangible indicator/reward for my life style changes.
"Better financing and organization of health care and, perhaps, reduction of
the profit margin could markedly decrease testing cost, even if very old (but
appropriately validated) diagnostic technologies are used."
Reduced pricing was a hype created by Theranos. When we started working in
this area, we found that if one is willing to pay out of pocket some labs will
offer pricing very close to Theranos.
------
jerryhuang100
_> Theranos does stand for well thought-out and useful therapy and diagnosis
and does not represent the harms suggested by another similar Greek word,
thanatos (death)._
This is gold. Yesterday Theranos just voided its two years of testing results
by its Edison.
~~~
SilasX
I saw another wordplay in that part: they say Theranos comes from "therapy"
and "[diag]nos[is]". But if you combine the "ther" and the "agnos" as Greek,
you get "beast without knowledge". :-O
------
RA_Fisher
Funny thing about JAMA is that almost all (?) the articles they publish don't
include code nor data. The research they publish is stealth!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Fights Back In Battle For Talent - razin
http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/15/google-fights-back-in-battle-for-talent-but-may-be-creating-a-worse-problem-for-itself/
======
baddspellar
Effectively they're rewarding employees for interviewing with other companies.
What about the equally-valuable employees who are very happy with their jobs
and don't choose to interview? Won't they become a little less happy, once
they know they're making less than the guy who was a little unhappy and chose
to interview?
I've spent quite a bit of time as a manager at some larger tech companies.
We'd monitor turnover and adjust our compensation policies, and other policies
that affected satisfaction, across the board if there was an increasing trend
in turnover. Sure, we'd make a diving catch every once in a while when we
didn't keep a close enough eye on one of our top developer's satisfaction. In
those cases we'd still look at our overall package.
When we made adjustments, the really good, happy engineers were even happier
when they got nice raises without even asking for one. Now, by across the
board, I don't mean that every engineer gets a good raise. That's because as a
company gets larger, they get more and more mediocre engineers. The article
doesn't say that Google gives big counter offers to every engineer. I assume
Google is smart enough not to do that. It's not possible that all of their
engineers are really good. Sometimes good-bye is good riddance.
~~~
shpxnvz
_What about the equally-valuable employees who are very happy with their jobs
and don't choose to interview? Won't they become a little less happy, once
they know they're making less than the guy who was a little unhappy and chose
to interview?_
It's always been the case that those who negotiate effectively tend to end up
with better compensation than those who don't. I wouldn't expect re-
negotiation to turn out any different.
I'd guess that those who are unhappy that their co-workers successfully re-
negotiate their compensation would tend to be just as unhappy when a new
employee negotiates a compensation package better than theirs. I doubt there's
much you can do to make those people happy, short of helping them to be better
negotiators themselves.
I've had experience with a company who responded to this sort of employee
dismay by putting salary caps on new hires. The end result was, predictably,
that the really talented people we found walked away when the company refused
to negotiate, and pressure to increase head count forced the company to hire a
lot of less-than-ideal candidates.
Regarding the use of offer letters to negotiate - it seems like a risky
tactic. The appeasement is certainly not sustainable, and when they start
refusing to counter-offer, those employees better be ready to make good on
their threat of leaving.
------
jessriedel
> And worse – he’s confirmed that many Google employees are interviewing with
> Facebook and Twitter, among others, simply to get a hefty raise. “Many
> people at Google use Facebook offers in order to get a big raise,” says
> Buchheit.
I don't understand why this is "worse", i.e. why interviewing purely to get a
raise should be thought of as a bad thing. To me, having many (hopefully low
cost) interviews simply allows software developers to be efficiently priced as
market conditions change.
Now, the natural response, if employee value can move _upward_ more easily, is
that employers will be less willing to offer job/salary security. But, on
average, this is good, right? Fighting this is like fighting to go back to the
old pensions system, which drastically reduced employment flexibility and was
a major source of economic friction.
~~~
F_J_H
So, would you say it is no different than when companies offshore development
to reduce costs? After all, when companies explore cheaper offshore options,
it “simply allows software developers to be efficiently priced as market
conditions change.”
I’m sure I will get my share of down votes for this, but as a cofounder that
has hired several developers, I’ve had people come to me with better offers
and give me an ultimatum. I rarely counter as there is no guarantee they won’t
come back sometime later with an even higher offer, and so on and so on. What
if your employer did the same sort of thing and came to you and said – “hey,
someone with equal credentials and experience told me they would do your job
for less, so you either need do it for the same or I will replace you.”
Yes I know there is no guarantee that the new person could perform as well,
and that there would also be inefficiencies due to having to come up the
learning curve, but there is also no guarantee that the other job will be
better for the person entertaining the “better” offer. I have had people leave
for a “better” job, ended up completely hating it, and then asking if they can
come back. Um….no. This isn’t mom’s basement where if it doesn’t work out, you
can always move back.
I’ve found to keep people, you need to pay them enough to take the “money”
question off the table, and the ensure they have something meaningful and
rewarding to do.
*edit - typo
~~~
jessriedel
> So, would you say it is no different than when companies offshore
> development to reduce costs?
Yes.
>I rarely counter as there is no guarantee they won’t come back sometime later
with an even higher offer, and so on and so on.
If I'm a builder and the price of wood goes up--but it's still the cheapest
material for my needs--I keep using it. If it keeps going up, I keep paying
more and more until there is a cheaper alternative.
Yes, it can be argued that there are key differences between people and wood,
but you haven't identified them and why they are important here.
>What if your employer did the same sort of thing and came to you and said –
“hey, someone with equal credentials and experience told me they would do your
job for less, so you either need do it for the same or I will replace you.”
I would be bummed I was no longer as valuable of a commodity, but I wouldn't
fault the employer.
~~~
F_J_H
That's good - many people seem to fault the employer in my experience.
Question though - the wood analogy was yours. You were expecting me to foresee
that and list the difference between people and wood? I am also disappointed
that your response did not address the differences between companies
and....let’s say…Antarctica penguin colonies. ;-)
~~~
jessriedel
Well, I just meant that if you treat wood or people as strict commodities,
then the fact that the price might continue to rise in the future doesn't
really seem to imply that I shouldn't pay a slightly higher price now; you
just pay the market price so long as you still make a profit and there isn't a
cheaper alternative. (This is the naive, econ-101 analysis.)
But, of course, people are more complicated than wood. So if you wanted to
argue that you should refuse to pay the higher price, you would need to
explain exactly what the difference between people and wood are, and exactly
why it should lead you to reject the naive analysis.
------
rfreytag
By making these counter-offers Google is using real money to back up their
assertion to (at least some of) their employees that their growth prospects
are better than Facebook's. Think of this as a dividend-like unforgeable
statement of corporate fiscal self-confidence.
If enough Googlers go fishing for counter-offers at Facebook, Facebook will be
wasting a lot of management energy reviewing and making offers to Googlers
that were never going jump in the first place.
------
edanm
As a programmer, I'm very happy with this story. Google has always said that
the people are their most important asset (actually, most companies say it).
But now, they're backing up their words with action, and the programmers end
up winning.
I wonder if this is just a one-off thing that only Google is doing, or whether
this kind of thinking will start to be more prevalent.
------
vidar
A lot of these counteroffers must be to stop the perception of brain drain.
Perception is often more important than reality.
I dont think there are that many "must not lose him/her, at any cost"
engineers, even at google.
~~~
qq66
There may not be any "must not lose him/her, at any cost" engineers, but there
are certainly "must not lose him/her, at a cost of $x million" engineers.
------
sp332
Relevant old Dilbert comic:
[http://books.google.com/books?id=vWBwU5gLo60C&lpg=PA117&...](http://books.google.com/books?id=vWBwU5gLo60C&lpg=PA117&ots=bw_e7v4MM2&dq=dilbert%20rewarding%20disloyalty&pg=PA117#v=onepage&q&f=false)
"The secret company policy is to reward disloyalty!"
------
bambax
This looks like a new bubble. Why would a Twitter IPO raise so much money?
What are its growth prospects? Facebook may be different, but still, it all
sounds very crazy.
~~~
pclark
Why does this look like a new bubble? Why wouldn't Twitter raise billions in a
public offering? Their growth prospects are every web or mobile phone user -
in any country - to use their service. The amount of attention Twitter has
from its users is really noteworthy.
~~~
bambax
There was a story not long ago on HN (can't seem to find it though) about a
blogger who had a special Twitter pipeline to send tweets whenever he blogged,
or something.
The thing failed silently and stayed broken for two months, and NOBODY
NOTICED: neither he nor any of his "followers" (he had more than a thousand).
So, having found out about the situation, he decided to stop using Twitter
altogether.
On LinkedIn I now have to see all the tweets of my "contacts" whenever I log
in; this is so annoying that it may push me to quit LinkedIn for this reason
alone.
People on Twitter are just copying and pasting news found elsewhere; there is
an infinitely small proportion of original content: for one "Shit My Dad
Says", there are millions of users who only mulch old content from the likes
of Digg (RIP) or Reddit or HN.
Twitter users are not paying attention to one another; they shout in the
desert and nobody cares.
This cannot go on forever.
~~~
mark_l_watson
I up voted you because I agree that "People on Twitter are just copying and
pasting news found elsewhere; there is an infinitely small proportion of
original content..."
I find Twitter to be very useful because interesting people who I follow post
links to interesting stuff. But, not too many fully formed ideas in 140
characters: just links or short funny things, etc.
------
mark_l_watson
I think it is a poor idea to put stock options in a startup at a high priority
when job hunting because startup success is a long shot. It is a different
situation for Facebook and other well established pre-IPO companies or older
companies that have an established value to their stock (I stayed at SAIC for
a long time because of stock bonuses, options, and the expectation that the
value would continue to increase).
For small startups, it seems like you have founders who have taken a real risk
vs. employees/consultants who are getting a salary and perhaps some equity. If
you are working for hire, better really enjoy the work and/or the immediate
compensation.
I have a childhood friend (actually, I also used to baby sit him when he was
really young) who started 3 companies over a 20 year period, finally getting
$300+ million when selling a large interest in his last company. My friend
(and people like him) who take risks get most of the rewards - a fair system.
------
antirez
Maybe I'm not used to the Silicon Valley processes but I think it is pretty
uncool to tell your company you received another offer... even without
explicitly mentioning you want a raise.
You should either be happy with your company, or talk with your boss in order
to get better conditions. And if there is no agreement you can look around and
go in some other place. But playing the game of the higher offer is something
that always disturbed me.
~~~
edw519
_But playing the game of the higher offer is something that always disturbed
me._
Not me. Here's my experience (many times):
Phase I
Me: I deserve more $ because <27 good reasons>.
Boss: I can't because <14 stupid reasons>.
Phase II
Me: I quit (not bluffing).
Boss: You can't. Here's more $.
~~~
antirez
Ok, this is what I think should be the best behavior:
Phase I
Me: I deserve more $ because ...
Boss: I can't because ...
Me: Ok
Phase II
You look for a better job where you can get what you deserve, without telling your company about it.
Phase III
I found the job.
Me: Sorry, I'm leaving, I found a job with the right $
Boss: Ok, we can match the offer
Me: no way, I'm leaving.
~~~
jasonkester
Minus the Phase II (never tell them you're planning to leave), I've done this
a couple times with good success.
It's healthy for both sides. You get a better job and a bit of self-satisfied
pleasure during the "no, you lost me" speech. They get to understand why they
lost a good worker, and the real costs associated with it. With luck, the team
you left behind will have a better environment, since just maybe management
will learn something.
~~~
antirez
Yep sorry I was not clear, in phase II you are not supposed to tell you are
looking for another job.
~~~
sushrutbidwai
People also tend to use interviewing to gauge what is current market price for
talent they have. Specially when economic conditions start looking to change
for better.
------
MC27
By repeatedly covering this topic, and websites like this linking to the
source, it's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Essentially, TC is partly to
blame and it reminds me of when they went after last.fm.
------
VladRussian
That summarizes it : "Only a sucker would sit and hope for recognition".
Google tries to avoid the unavoidable, at least in astrophysics :
"After the type II supernova, only the collapsed core is left behind. If it's
less than 2 or 3 solar masses, it is what's known as a neutron star, named
thus because it's made almost entirely of degenerate neutrons."
~~~
VladRussian
got angry? At astrophysics? Some people still surprise me. This was the post
where i least expected to lose karma.
------
dschobel
Crazy stuff, I wonder how long google's stockholders are going to tolerate
overpaying (relative to market) for talent.
~~~
tomerico
Google has never paid any dividend and has always gave big bonuses to its
employees. So stockholders already tolerate these things.
Microsoft on the other hand has been paying generous dividends, its profits
has been rising at an impressive rate, yet its stock has remained steady for
almost a decade.
~~~
maigret
Yes, because investors hope Google to pay (high) dividends soon. Without
dividends, stocks are just a Ponzy scheme.
------
shareme
The problem with the article is that it misses the big point.. Google is
attempting to save some costs in hiring at the high levels of coding
engineers..with a comparison of that costs per employee against the cost to
offer a 20% raise is somewhat a miss-leading and pointless article..or what we
call link-bait.
And some of the Hr hiring costs per employee can be determine from the Google
SEC filings..by making some assumptions and completing some calculations..
And on top of that most high end Google engineer hires and this has been in
fact talked about only become fully productive at 12 to 18 months after
joining Google..
So lets do the calculations that MA of Tc should have been somewhat curious to
do..
$120,000 salary per year times 80% non-productive first 12 months..learning
the Google engineering system etc..
$96,000 in loss productivity costs
now ad Hr department costs of interviewing and etc..
$20,000..my guess..only guess.
so now we are up to a subtotal of $116,000.. and $120,000 times 20%
is..$24,000
Change the salary to say $400,000 still similar differences in costs of the
two decisions..with Google wining out on their own cost decision..
~~~
jasonkester
Where do you get your 80% non-productive number?
Every job I've had in the last 10 years, I've delivered production code on day
one. I expect that anybody good enough to get hired at Google would be capable
of the same. I mean sure, we've all hired our share of useless junior devs,
but then we've all done that at places that were a notch or two below Google
on the minimum-standards front.
For talented developers with experience, I could see losing a few percentage
points of your max speed during the first week while you get used to process,
but do you really think you can stumble along at 20% of your capability for an
entire year and not be noticed? At a top-tier software company???
~~~
ovi256
>Every job I've had in the last 10 years, I've delivered production code on
day one.
We all did, but it's not enough. You probably took time away from other
engineers to coach you and explain the system. If you took more time than it
would have took them to accomplish what you did, you're not productive. And
his point is that's what you did.
~~~
jasonkester
Perhaps I wasn't clear, so I'll restate what I was saying.
One day one, of the last half dozen jobs I've taken, I've been handed a
project and told to run with it. And I ran. Without any assistance from
anybody except a couple quick chats with whoever's in charge over the course
of the project, and QA when it was ready to push.
No hand holding, no coaching, no taking up anybody's time asking silly
questions. You just figure things out for yourself and get up to speed. Inside
of a few hours.
That's how you work if you're good, and I can't imagine anybody getting in the
door at a shop like Google that couldn't.
The type of drain you describe is what happens when you bring a junior dev
onto a team. It's a lot less when you bring in more senior people, and by the
time you get to the big leages it's pretty much just background noise. That's
why I questioned the great-grandparent's "20% throughput for an entire year"
number.
My guess, based on experience, would be closer to 100% throughput, given an
entire year to absorb the first few days.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rails 4.0 Sneak Peek: Asynchronous ActionMailer - bcardarella
http://reefpoints.dockyard.com/ruby/2012/06/26/rails-4-sneak-peek-async-actionmailer.html
======
evdawg
I think this was the lowest-hanging fruit in Rails. Glad they've finally
addressed it in core. Years of people using job queues just to send mail is
finally over!
But, why doesn't this let me pass objects to Mailer methods? I can't help but
think passing ids and finding the object again on the other side is bad
design.
Myself, over the past few years, instead of a job queue, I have been using a
simple gem called spawn (<https://github.com/tra/spawn>) to fork processes to
asynchronously send mail from Rails. It lets me pass objects around... I hope
that this asynchronous ActionMailer gets this functionality as well!
~~~
mattgreenrocks
> I can't help but think passing ids and finding the object again on the other
> side is bad design.
It is good design. Why? Because you don't want to pass mutable state (read:
your user model) across thread/process boundaries if you can help it. What if
the mailer modifies it? What if the caller modifies it while the mailer is
working with it? It may no longer be valid. Rather than trying to reason about
all possible states it could be in, it's easier just to make the job bootstrap
itself with all the data it needs.
Confining instances to threads is far more sane than using mutexes and locks
or relying on your runtime's GIL to watch out for you.
~~~
nirvdrum
Since you're unlikely to be sharing memory with your background processor,
what you'd really be doing is marshaling the object on enqueue and
unmarshaling on decode. In that case, you're no more susceptible to further
modifications to the data than you would be with a DB lookup.
There of course may be other issues with marshaling. E.g., marshaling of procs
is particularly tricky. But I've been marshaling with sidekiq for the past
couple months and really haven't run into any problems. And it cleaned up the
code a fair bit because I basically treat it as an RPC without any of the
ceremonious DB lookups at the start of every async method.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google gives developers code to disable iOS 9 app security - blacktulip
http://9to5mac.com/2015/08/28/google-bypass-ats-ios-9/
======
jsjohnst
"Do no evil" unless it affects the bottom line...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fix for web encryption? - honey_cutt
Since the NSA incident I have been thinking about common encryption methods used currently in use on the web.<p>I was wondering if a rolling/hopping key scheme would work. Something similar to this is used in RF communications where they have frequency hopping.<p>I was thinking something along the same lines, where a visited site would give a unique key to the browser. The key would then be used to generate a rolling keys that would have to match that of the server for the connection to stay live.<p>Any thoughts?
======
kjs3
You mean SSL/TLS key renegotiation:
[http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5746](http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5746)?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons - gscott
https://www.inlander.com/spokane/nearly-45-years-after-its-creation-a-fantasy-game-played-with-paper-pencil-and-dice-is-having-its-biggest-year-yet-in-the-inland-northwest-a/Content?oid=15615918
======
hellepardo
My friends and I play D&D because we have no real other option. We used to
play Minecraft and other collaborative building games as a group, but then one
in our group went fully blind. There is a complete lack of good multiplayer
computer games for entirely blind players (admittedly that is quite a
challenge), but D&D requires only imagination, which all of us still have.
Highly recommend if you have friends with vision disabilities.
~~~
mcv
No real other option? There are dozens of other excellent RPGs available that
rely more on imagination than sight. D&D is merely the gateway game.
There are of course D&D spin-offs and clones like Pathfinder and 13th Age, old
school (OSR) "retro-clones" like Dungeon Crawl Classics, Lamentations of the
Flame Princess and many, many others. Then there are the classic non-D&D games
like Shadowrun (in its 5th edition now), Traveller, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
(4th edition just released), and GURPS. There's Savage Worlds for fast-paced
pulp-style adventures, FATE for absolutely anything you can possibly imagine
(including publications for Dresden Files and others). There's FFG's excellent
Star Wars games (Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion and Force and Destiny),
and dozens if not hundreds of smaller indie games, many of which are
completely free.
We are truly living in a golden age for roleplaying games. D&D is merely the
most visible and best-known one.
~~~
SaulOfTheJungle
What non-D&D game would you suggest to someone who enjoys D&D but would like
to explore other systems?
~~~
mcv
There are way too many options to give a simple answer to that question.
If you want to stick close to D&D, Pathfinder and 13th Age are obvious
choices. If you prefer something a bit more raw, less polished maybe,
deadlier, where survival is a goal in itself and combat may be better avoided,
try one of the OSR systems, like DCC, LotFP, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, etc.
Lamentations of the Flame Princess is weird horror and explicitly 18+. If you
want the feeling of D&D but with a system that focuses more on the story and
the experience than on all the numbers in D&D, then try Dungeon World. A lot
of people lauded Dungeon World for recreating the feeling they had when they
first played D&D.
If you want to get further away from D&D, well, what direction do you want?
Fantasy? SF? Cyberpunk? Historical? Martial arts? Horror? Steam punk?
Espionage? Military? Old West? TV shows?
~~~
SaulOfTheJungle
> If you want to get further away from D&D, well, what direction do you want?
SF or Cyberpunk
~~~
saalweachter
Shadowrun is the canonical cyberpunk RPG.
Starfinder is, I believe, Pathfinder in space.
GURPS is setting-agnostic.
~~~
naravara
>Shadowrun is the canonical cyberpunk RPG.
Aside from the dated and weird essentialization of Native American cultures,
Shadowrun's setting is really good and fun.
Unfortunately it's hard to run a game with a decent narrative flow just
because the combat system is so complicated. My group decided to shame people
out of playing mages or riggers just because we didn't want to have to deal
with simultaneously doing combat in cyberspace and the astral plane at once.
It really puts a damper on having a fun game that flows. I wouldn't recommend
it for someone new to pen&paper RPGs.
On the other hand, the tedium of combat gave us a strong incentive to talk our
way out of problems instead of going the murder-hobo route.
------
trynewideas
Is it unlikely? Board games were already growing fast. Even CCGs were growing
fast, not only through video games but still as physical games too. People
want to sit down and get offline and spend time with each other, _and_ people
who used to do that want to get online and hang out with each other.
All the RPG market needed was one publisher with good production values and
broad distribution to discard a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules.
Wizards was happy to oblige...
Pathfinder saw it too with their precursor Beginner Box, which also threw out
a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules and sold like crazy off a Humble
Bundle. They just didn't get the distribution (or the right YouTubers on
board) until it was too late, and never plugged their Beginner Box into other
content as elegantly as Wizards did.
~~~
smaili
Speaking of CCG's, any collectors who happen to be coders? I haven't met too
many at the local shops I stop by so I always figured collecting cards wasn't
very popular amongst engineers.
~~~
JonathanMerklin
I collected the 1996 Netrunner CCG for years; last year I found someone who
was more or less selling off their complete collection (I didn't have any of
the 2.0 cards or the majority of the 2.2 cards, and was also missing a handful
of the 2.1 rares - inheriting a couple boxes of all the miscellaneous spares
was fine by me if it meant a 100% complete binder) so that very expensive
chapter of my life has closed.
I also went out and finished my "first TCG appearence of the original 151"
Pokémon collection with one of my first few paychecks after graduating (had to
shell out the money for Charizard and a couple others that were never in my
collection from childhood). I really wanted to retroactively declare myself
the coolest kid on the playground at recess, otherwise what was all that work
for? :)
Sadly, while card games were an important part of my life growing up, a lot of
mental switches flipped over the last year or so and I honestly regret
spending so much money and time in the card game world over the entire first
part of my life. In 2012 Android: Netrunner introduced me to the LCG model and
made me realize that the CCG model was exploitative and a terrible use of my
money (obvious in retrospect, but when you're in the thick of it, you try and
rationalize it, you know?). Then, working towards my degree for a few years
after that kept me out of the tournament ecosystem for so long that I found
myself not wanting to go back - there were simply more productive uses of my
brain cycles than deck construction and playing games. I know they say "time
enjoyed wasted is not wasted time" but if I would have programmed or learned a
few languages or focused on competition math or read classical literature or
learned to cook or any number of other things in that first 18 years, I'd be
so much better off [1]. It's possible many coders feel the same way, and
that's why you're not seeing them.
[1] In fact, should parenting be in my future, I don't think I'd let my kids
have nearly as much post-pubescent "non-skill-building" fun as I was allowed
to have; competition for income is fierce and it's only going to get worse.
~~~
lmm
> I know they say "time enjoyed wasted is not wasted time" but if I would have
> programmed or learned a few languages or focused on competition math or read
> classical literature or learned to cook or any number of other things in
> that first 18 years, I'd be so much better off [1].
Better off in what sense? If we're talking about skills that apply to the rest
of life, I honestly feel like deck optimisation was much better preparation
for a real-world career (where the problem scope is never fully defined, the
measure of success always involves an element of randomness, and hidden
interactions abound) than competition maths was. And while it exercises a
different kind of imagination and storytelling, I'd argue that games in a
shared-world fiction can give a more intense practice of the things that
classical literature give you.
------
sudosteph
Paradoxically, tech has actually made DnD much more accessible to the masses.
When my friends and I first started playing 3.5 in middle school, we pooled
our money for a single player's handbook (they were pricey back then!) and
would constantly be passing it around any time anyone needed to do anything,
which really slowed down the pace of the game and made it hard to get
intimately familiar with the rules.
Eventually someone found a PDF dump of some books, and suddenly not only did
we have access to useful stuff like the monster manual and DM guide, but we
could search the text super quickly and get familiar with the rules at home,
on our own time.
Now that we're adults who can actually afford the books, we don't need the
PDFs - but we still benefit from using phone apps for dice rolling and
spellbooks, and roll20 for combat.
~~~
ajross
I've timed it in actual play: it's quicker to google for a monster stat block
(one from the SRD, obviously) than it is to look it up in the Monster Manual
sitting right next to the laptop.
~~~
klodolph
Sure, but from experience in play, sticky notes in the Monster Manual are much
faster for switching back and forth than browser tabs are.
~~~
ajross
That's a cache, though, when the use case at hand is random access.
I mean, if I'm willing to do some prep work I can surely do even better than
sticky notes (like, heh, "google for all the monsters ahead of time and line
them all up in browser tabs").
~~~
klodolph
Perhaps that's your use case, it's not mine.
How DMs prepare, if they do, is highly variable. But most DMs choose monsters
ahead of time. This appears in survey data in _The Lazy Dungeon Master._ The
questionnaires are interesting, when asked how they would prepare for a
session if they only had 30 minutes, most DMs explicitly mentioned choosing
monsters.
Over the years, my personal experience is that running things out of the
browser or PDF is great if you need to search for random rules and other
situations that come up during the game, but paper books and notes are
overwhelmingly superior for expected conditions like encounters and monsters.
I've used various laptop systems (wikis, docs, text files), apps, and paper
systems (typed, handwritten, paper or notecard). On the balance of things I
decided that running the game with a laptop was worse than running a game
without one, at least the way I play the game.
That's just a personal choice, but it seems like most DMs do choose monsters
ahead of time.
~~~
colomon
I've been running the old d20 Star Wars game for my kid, and with PDFs of all
the rulebooks, one of my main game prep things is printing out the pages for
the creatures / characters / spaceships I think are likely for a session.
------
tunesmith
We started playing a year ago, it was my first time playing since the
mid-80's, and we're doing it all from my old AD&D (first edition) books and
modules that I had collected from then.
We really like it because as a group of newbies - four of the five players had
never played before - it gives us permission to do things that are really fun
but we never really would have found time to do before. We've incorporated
poetry reading, table-reading of scripts, songs, and silly tasks (I made my
wife pick a real estate lockbox we didn't have the combination for, before her
thief could advance to level 2).
So for us anyway, it wasn't anything about Wizards of the Coast or 5e... this
is strictly Gygax-level stuff we're playing. But I think some of it is a
blowback from many of us just feeling exhausted and discouraged about online
life, there is greater appetite for making these sorts of memories and being
creative together.
~~~
sudosteph
That sounds like a good time! I've actually had some of the most fun role-
playing experiences playing with new players who don't really have a
preconceived on what the typical limits of role-playing should be.
For example, we've got one player who decided to try and buy drugs in-game at
one of the seedier cities we were stopping at. Fast-forward many sessions
later, and she's now a kingpin of sorts with an owl-delivery service and
contacts of varying trustworthiness all over the place. It does help to have a
very creative DM who likes creating random effects (inhaling ground up flail
snail shell turned out to be particularly silly) and teammates who don't get
bent out of shape over "less than optimal" play or whatever.
------
kriro
In Germany there's at least one other big P&P RPG called "Das Schwarze Auge"
(sold in the US as "The dark Eye" iirc and not very successful). I think it's
a good system and the lore is pretty nice (even though compared to my child-
self I now realized a lot of it is heavily influenced by real world
history/cultures).
Which makes me wonder...what are other native language systems that are
popular in the country but might not be known outside? My working hypothesis
would be that those exist in many countries because P&P RPGs are language
driven after all and so native language systems are the most natural tool for
storytelling.
Please do share if you're from a non-US country and have an interesting system
(and share if it is the go to system over DnD or comparable in popularity).
~~~
ajuc
In Poland there were Krzyształy Czasu (Crystals of Time) - a generic high
fantasy system made by people from Magia i Miecz magazine (pioneering magazine
about RPGS in Poland - it was the only such press for decades). There was also
"Wiedźmin - Gra Wyobraźni" \- an RPG based on Witcher franchise and targetting
new players reoughly at the time that Witcher was first adapted as movie and
TV series. It wasn't very good mechanically, but got some people in the hobby.
There was also Dzikie Pola (based on Polish 16-18th century - inspired by
books of Henryk Sienkiewicz - Polish Dumas). If you've seen "Deluge" or "With
Fire and Sword" movies you know the setting. Sabres, flintlocks, Polish
nobility, Ottomans, Muscovites, Cossacs, and wide steppes of modern Ukraine :)
On sci-fi side there is Neuroshima - fallout-like setting with some quirks. It
was popular a few years ago but I don't hear about it much anymore.
But the most popular was (and still is) fantasy Warhammer RPG. The first
Polish edition was the first time an RPG system was marketed in Poland and it
was a big deal, almost everybody to this day started playing RPG with first or
second edition of that.
Apart from that the most popular is Call of Cthulhu I think? Or maybe
Vampire:the Masquerade and related systems, but that's losing popularity
recently I think.
D&D was never very popular, that slowly changes recently.
~~~
kriro
Very cool, I never realized that the boardgame Neuroshima Hex! (very
recommendable, recently also "reskinned" as Monolith Arena) is actually based
on an RPG :D
Poland is a great boardgame nation, Ignacy Trzewiczek is one of my favorite
developers :)
~~~
ajuc
In my previous job we played Neuroshima RPG after work sometimes. It was crazy
- the whole office participated - like 12 people including our boss and the
secretary, and one of the programmers were a DM.
We never really got to the point where plot happens, because it took forever
to fight stray dogs on the way with 12 players, but it was a lot of fun. The
fighting mechanics was inspired by Cyberpunk 2020 - a lot of dice throwing for
each attack :)
------
ergothus
The article undersells the whole story.
The Open Gaming License of 3rd edition D&D was definitely open source inspired
(despite my personal beefs with it) and kicked of a huge burst of new game
developers, and that bubble collapsed right on the tails of the CCG collapse,
which caused a big churn in the industry.
This led to a spike of online offerings, and the crowdsourcing era has meant
that while the last 10 years is anything but safe for authors, for players it
us as golden age.
Well beyond d&d (though there too) there is a wealth of options and better
support and community than ever, between publishers and players, and amongst
players. Tabletop games continue, as do video chat based games and play by
post forums. All while the old school games, MOOs and MUSHes thrive. Different
playstyles are supported, the communities are getting better about tolerance,
and the Satanic Panic is not part of mainstream culture anymore.
~~~
teach
I play D&D in person using a paper character sheet and physical dice, but I
created that sheet using D&D Beyond. And most of the rest of the party uses
D&D Beyond on iPads.
Holy hell is that more convenient for tracking spells and subtle rule
interactions than what I used to have to do as a kid.
In my eyes, it's letting technology do what it does best -- get details right
-- and frees up slightly more casual players to do the fun roleplaying part
without being so bogged down.
~~~
gota
Sorry if this is lazy but I can't really Google game related stuff right now,
but can you link an image with that sheet?
------
skywhopper
I don't think it's surprising at all. As mentioned here, people are looking
for alternatives to spending time online all the time. Then, as the article
mentions, LOTR, GOT, and Harry Potter have primed the culture to be big into
fantasy. And finally, we're a good 30 years past the peak of the D&D bashing
by religious types and the stereotype of it being a game for basement dwelling
stoners and creeps, which means we have a full generation of young adults who
don't have huge preconceived notions about the game.
------
Trisell
If you enjoy D&D then Critcal Role[1] is a must watch. Matt Merser is an
amazing DM. And the other players(all professional voice actors) are really
good as well. It’s great sit on the couch for a while or watch while working
type of fare. Each episode is multiple hours of great voice acting and D&D.
[1] [https://critrole.com](https://critrole.com)
~~~
mcjiggerlog
Also relevant - check out HarmonQuest[1], it's Dan Harmon (of Rick & Morty)
doing a campaign which is then animated over. It's absolutely hilarious and
very well made. Also, given each episode is only 25 minutes it's not quite as
big of a commitment as Critical Role!
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonQuest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonQuest)
------
tomc1985
What a shame that all this attention goes to D&D. There are so many other good
tabletop games with exquisite worldbuilding, languishing for attention...
Vampire: The Masquerade, RIFTS (my personal fav)
~~~
PhasmaFelis
Rifts has a wonderfully gonzo setting saddled with possibly the worst rules
system available in this century.
The Savage Worlds conversion is pretty cool, though.
~~~
Pxtl
I know. I ran a campaign of RIFTs and globetrotting in that setting was
awesome... But the rules were so very boring.
Palladium crashed catastrophically, sadly. There was some kind of theft
problem, and then they had a disastrous Kickstarter.... Such a shame they
couldn't find a way to modernize.
~~~
tomc1985
What was it about the rules you found to be boring? Rifts was my first RPG and
I remember the rules being complicated AF but I think we all sort of accepted
that as the price of entry or something
~~~
Pxtl
No customizing characters beyond rolling stats and picking skills/spells (and
just picking them, not saying how good they are at them) and weapons.
Fighting was mostly attack/parry/dodge. Not much variety in combat actions,
particularly with massive health values on everything.
Your stats hardly mattered unless they were above like 16 and got the skill or
combat bonus.
Most of the rules for non-combat actions were just simple skill-tests.
------
SubiculumCode
The saddest thing about having board games is not having anyone come over to
play them.
In particular for me at the moment, I have Battles of Westeros
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/67492/battles-
westeros](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/67492/battles-westeros)
that many feel is one of the best tactical board games out there:
[https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979785/battles-westeros-
imm...](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979785/battles-westeros-immensely-
deep-strategy-experienc)
and yet I've played it twice in five years. ;(
~~~
tialaramex
To be fair, deep strategy games aren't exactly the most friendly thing to just
"dip your toe into", especially two player deep strategy.
If you wanted more chances for people to come over and play games few things
could be worse. Maybe 18xx (very crunchy simulationist games about early
railways) or full blown scale wargaming (e.g. Napoleonic). But even lighter
variants of those let people ease into it (e.g. skirmish wargaming, you can
buy a couple of boxes of miniatures and play skirmish variants of 40K or
various WW2 settings, and there are train sim games where you just run trains
and don't have a stock market, a territorial map and so on)
I know I won't have people over often enough to justify big set piece games,
so I carry things like "Love Letter" which you can play in a pub in 10
minutes.
~~~
SubiculumCode
That is very fair assessment that I also share. That is why I have other
games. But I do lament it!
For the most part, I get my gaming in by playing with people using play-by-
post in a Pathfinder roleplaying forum, which I like alot for the creative
writing and rp.
------
ilaksh
I think that D&D is interesting in terms of the contrast with computer
roleplaying games.
In a way it does a good job of showing both the current strengths and
weaknesses of computers. Managing the rules and stats by hand can be fun, but
I have seen many recorded sessions where it is obviously a burden that a
computer would be perfectly suited for.
On the other hand, aspects of D&D like face-to-face interaction and language-
based free creativity are things the computer can't handle well. Although
video chat is a thing. Computers can't understand language at this point so
they can't manage everything for you. Of course DMing is the most fun for many
people so they wouldn't want a computer to DM.
I wonder if there would be a way to translate the freedom that you get as a DM
or player in terms of world creation, scenario management, and freedom of
action, to an interactive video-game type experience. Maybe in VR?
~~~
sudosteph
Neverwinter Nights 2 had some solid tools for campaign building that were the
closest I've seen to creating a world with scenarios like those you see in
DnD. It helps that the game was almost literalally DnD, but still impressive.
I don't think DM'ing is necessarily fun though. Most everyone I know who DMs
sometimes, including me, finds it to be pretty stressful and a lot of work.
The real value to me, is that a really good DM knows when to break the rules
to enhance the game experience, and how to do it without making people angry.
They create scenarios that specifically challenge the characters that are
playing, not just for combat, but for role-playing purposes. Ie, a Lawful
wizard is tempted to steal a scroll that would contain the knowledge he seeks
the most, or a cleric who must decide whether to uphold her team's plan to
ally with an unscrupulous NPC, or to go rogue in the name of their ethical
code and deliver justice to said NPC. Good storytelling and cooperative play
is just something that comes very naturally to some people, and having a human
in the loop to respond to events in the context of an overarching narrative
and party experience is really hard ot beat.
~~~
ilaksh
Thanks for the info on Neverwinter Nights 2. I will check it out.
I agree about having a human in the loop. My idea though was that maybe you
could have the best of both worlds with a computer to help the DM. The trick
would be making the sandbox rich and responsive enough that the DM and
characters would really have freedom in the moment. Maybe the DM could have
tools that easily allow him to rez and customize appropriate objects and NPCs
in the visualization.
~~~
skocznymroczny
As far as I remember, in NWN1 multiplayer sessions you could have a player
play as the DM. He had access to stuff like spawning items, could spawn
monsters on top of the party etc.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3pclUiro-4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3pclUiro-4)
------
tareqak
There is one aspect where I think digital board games are superior: you don't
have to spend time setting up, putting away, or resetting the game. If there
was a way to do that in the analog version as quick as the digital ones, then
I would more willing to participate. Another thing might be "saving" the state
between long sessions: you can use a camera phone for certain parts, but its
more difficult for when there are secrets and you need a neutral 3rd party
(e.g. a card hand).
Edit/Update: My mistake. I've seen a few photographs of people playing D&D
(even the ones in the article), and it seemed like there was more of a board
and initial conditions represented by many pieces like board games. I've
played board games like Settlers and Monopoly where set up requires more time
and effort. Sorry again.
~~~
nouveaux
Digital board games are superior in almost every way except face to face
player interaction. For games with a high level of complexity, the analog
version is always terrible. Forgetting to move a bit when the game state
changes is always a sore point. Unfortunately, these games are generally more
challenging to port to digital as well.
For more casual games, I prefer to play in person with a beer in hand.
(PS My day job is running a game store. If anyone needs a recommendation on a
board game, let me know.)
~~~
usmannk
I'd love a recommendation on a starter game (or a few!) if you find yourself
with a minute! I play with a group who, including myself, are novices when it
comes boardgames. Between 3-6 players most of the time. We found ourselves
getting really into Puerto Rico and recently tried Terraforming Mars but
didn't _love_ it. I think TR would be better on a second playthrough when we
actually know the rules though :). I played Battlestar Galactica once as well
and found it great! Looking at boardgamegeeks is a bit intense with the
selection there so I'm hoping you might have a narrower range to suggest.
~~~
nouveaux
Terraforming Mars is my favorite game. I think its worth giving it another
try. I would remove the Corporate Era cards for now. These are the cards with
the white triangle near the bottom left.
Here are some games I would suggest for a group that likes Puerto Rico:
-Lords of Waterdeep
-Castles of Burgundy
-7 Wonders (scales well to 6 players)
-Pandemic Legacy (co-op)
-Clank
-Azul
-Splendor
These all have different mechanics and feel, so it is a good starter set. Let
me know if you have more questions. Hope you enjoy these!
~~~
Sean1708
I played Splendor for the first time a couple of weeks ago when I visited my
parents and immediately bought my own set, it's just such a simple premise
that lends itself really well to interesting tactics.
------
Angostura
I can confirm that my 15 year old daughter and her group of friends got into
it because of Stranger things. Now have regular sessions with obligatory
pizza. I'm rather jealous.
------
rb666
Ironically, the best way to actually play D&D is...online, using Fantasy
Grounds software. This saves on an incredible amount of time and
micromanagement, creating time for actual RP and gameplay. Highly recommended,
plus you can actually include your non-local friends.
~~~
meekins
Roll20 is awesome as well
~~~
uberswe
Whenever I hear Roll20 I just think of this post
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_o...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/)
~~~
mcv
I had not heard that yet. I've always had a positive impression of Roll20,
although I'd never used it. This makes sure that I never will.
That thread is a good source of some alternatives.
------
mikejulietbravo
Given the amount of studies/reports coming out talking about how bad screen
time is for people, and how insane the amount of screen time we all log is - I
foresee a big resurgence in anything "analog".
~~~
suprfnk
> the amount of studies/reports coming out talking about how bad screen time
> is for people
I haven't heard of this, do you have any links for me?
------
_emacsomancer_
A really nice D&D 'implementation' is Lamentations of the Flame Princess, at
least in terms of the supplements, particularly Zak Smith's stuff. The last
time I played D&D was during the 2e era (though I stubbornly stuck to 1e), and
the LotFP has some of the flavour of the good I remember from that time (with
its own twists).
------
ryanmercer
I personally know of at least 5 people that started playing D&D because of
Stranger Things of all things.
~~~
freedomben
Likewise, several people. Stranger Things also got some people (like myself)
who never tried before to give it a whirl.
~~~
harryf
Watched stranger things with my teenage kids which led me to show them DND.
They found a nice break from playing fantasy related computer games
------
quadcore
I just realised what was really magical to me with pen&paper rpgs. My uncle
used to have this funny / ridiculous trick of his, with a deck of cards where
he would secretly see the bottom card of the deck while finishing shuffling it
and then ask you: "red or black?". You'd say "red", then if the bottom card
was red, he would say "then we take the red", or if the card was black he
would say "then remains the black". Basically whatever you would say would
lead to the bottom card and you'd supposedly be amazed when he'd show it to
you.
In a rpg, it's like "you're in the forest, what you do?", "well I walk east".
"ok you found a tower". Whatever you do, you'd find that tower haha. It's like
whatever you say have fun consequences but with thousands more options than my
uncle's trick.
------
Rooster61
I love DnD 5e and its approachability/newb-friendlyness. That said, the game I
have become enamored with here recently (one that I feel is underrated) is
Shadowrun.
It gets a bad rep (somewhat deservedly so) because of its overwhelming depth
and detail/learning curve, and the pretty horribly written core handbook. But
once you get past the pointy bits and really learn the utility of the system,
it's a pretty fantastic game that really scratches that itch for cyberpunk
fantasy.
It isn't just DnD plopped into fake leather trenchcoats and hacky-hacky
terminals (it has those things, of course). The gameplay is set up
differently, and has a heist-movie like flow, consisting of "shadowruns" which
are follow a meet client->make plan->prepare->execute flow, and lends itself
well to one-off sessions.
Give it a shot if someone around is interested and has played it before. You
might like it.
------
Mizza
Want to play but don't know how to get started?
Try my guide! [https://github.com/Miserlou/dnd-
tldr](https://github.com/Miserlou/dnd-tldr)
~~~
emasirik
I like this a lot; I'll be trying it on a few victi--er, boardgamers I think
might be able to appreciate tabletop RPGs but are pushed back by both social
stigmas and a belief that the rules are more complex than they are.
It solves the latter problem, at least. :)
------
nouveaux
Not only Dungeons and Dragons, board games are making huge waves around the
world. As a game store owner, I have observed a huge growth in tabletop games,
including board games. So it's probably not a coincidence that the most highly
rated board game (at least according to Board Game Geek) is an RPG based board
game. At the time of its kickstarter, I think it raised the most money as
well.
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/174430/gloomhaven](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/174430/gloomhaven)
Speaking of kickstarter, I believe some of its most funded ideas were board
games.
~~~
adamredwoods
I've found Gloomhaven, Pathfinder The Card Game, or other "hybrid RPGs" to be
the better experience because it doesn't take up a full day.
~~~
brandoncordell
Maybe my group is doing something wrong because Gloomhaven takes up at the
VERY least 3-5 hours each time we play. That's only with 1-2 dungeons.
------
irrational
I would think a major factor would be the surge of modern board games. Last
year alone 5,000 new board games were published. This is called the golden age
of board games, and D&D would seem to be just one aspect of this trend.
------
beefsack
I've tried and failed to get into some RPG campaigns in a few different
systems (my general anxiety didn't help) but I listen to and absolutely adore
The Adventure Zone podcast[1].
There's scope for some really wonderful collaborative storytelling in these
systems, and the TAZ group are a few brothers and their dad and they gel
together perfectly. Helps that they have lots of podcasting experience too,
very high quality production.
[1]: [https://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-
zone](https://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-zone)
~~~
thebouv
I used to listen to TAZ but once the story started getting more and more away
from traditional fantasy or even high fantasy, I got bored with it.
Specifically the Crystal Kingdom arc drove me away. Just couldn't get into it.
------
packetpirate
I got into D&D by chance around 2009. Unfortunately I started with 4th Edition
(I know...), but I'm very happy that I did, because all throughout High School
I was one of the outcasts, but never had any of these mediums to confide in,
and often made fun of "nerds" even though I technically was one. Just playing
D&D has given me another way to meet new people and do something other than
play video games in my free time. I only wish I had more time in the week. I
have too many hobbies.
------
projectramo
There are two reasons to pick other game systems over D&D:
1\. You don't want the medieval + magic world and want to explore other
timelines. Maybe futuristic, Star Wars etc.
2\. You don't like the mechanics. Maybe the game system complexity slows you
down or else there is some weird arbitrage opportunity that messes up the
incentives. (Let's spend the whole game killing orc babies to build up XP
instead of solving the clues and then just beat up the bad guy at the end).
Do people have good recommendations for substitutes that solves #2?
~~~
docker_up
Isn't #2 solved by a good Dungeon Master? The DM should be able to take
control of the game so that players aren't just going around killing orc
babies. "In the distance, you see a group of 1000 orc parents coming searching
for the killers of their babies..."
~~~
projectramo
I don't like too much explicit intervention by the DM.
Part of it has to feel like the player to feel like there are fair predictable
rules that the game adheres to. Yes, the DM has to step in to make sure the
game feels good, but the extra work to combat game mechanics doesn't feel like
a good use of the DM's time.
Your solution is a good, creative one but I don't like that poor mechanics got
us here.
------
b_tterc_p
5e made great progrsss by stripping down rules and making things more
accessible. I think they should do it even further.
The core game is fun, but combat is quite slow, tedious, and, in my opinion,
not much of a good role play experience. Nix weapon stats, health, spell
slots, etc. Differentiate more heavily on specialties. Ward off fear of death
with a system of injuries and what not. Fighting can still be a huge part of
the game, but it shouldn’t be the underlying goal of most mechanics.
~~~
plopz
It sounds like you might like Dungeon World a lot more than D&D.
------
Balgair
I blame /r/dndgreentext and Critical Roll in part. Those highlights are
addictively fun to read/watch. Sir Bearington level DnD is a life goal for
sure.
------
wenc
I'm just wondering, are there many casual D&D groups for non-geeks? (like the
Adrian family featured in the article)
My only exposure to D&D was the episode of the "Community", and it looked
pretty fun. I wonder if the demographics of that group is normal.
I only ask because most of my friends have this perception that D&D
personalities are a little "awkward" and would not give it a chance, but have
no issues going to board-game nights.
~~~
dljsjr
So I felt the same way about it; I'm a card-carrying nerd but most of my
friends are decidedly non-geeks who still enjoy board game nights. At first,
it started off with me being afraid of introducing them to the less mainstream
boardgames. But one night I pitched Settlers of Catan (not exactly underground
but also not Monopoly by any stretch) and surprisingly they took to it. And as
we started playing more and more esoteric board games (some of them even
having faux tabletop/RPG elements to them) I was continually surprised that
everyone continued to enjoy them.
The most surprising thing to me, though, is that eventually _they_ approached
_me_ about trying out D&D. It was something I'd wanted to do for a while but
had never communicated it to them because I just assumed they wouldn't be
interested.
Point being: You may be surprised. You have nothing to lose by suggesting it
to them other than them saying "no". The 5th edition starter set even has the
option of using pregenerated characters to reduce the friction. Maybe even
start by showing them one of the CelibriDnD videos on YouTube; there's one
with Vin Diesel and one with Terry Crews, not people who the general public
usually think of as geeky.
------
topmonk
Just figured I mention tabletop simulator which is a sandbox and editor that
allows you to recreate and play nearly any boardgame ever created. I'm using
it to play a tabletop RPG with some other people I met online, and it works
very well.
[https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator...](https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator/)
~~~
brandoncordell
And you can find almost any game you can imagine in the workshop for free.
Best part is that some of the complicated games are scripted with Lua so you
don't have to worry about setting up the game yourself.
------
iheartpotatoes
I had a 25+ year gap in my D&D gaming. It started again when I moved to the
PNW and met a couple in their 40's who took gaming very seriously, and started
playing with them again. They introduced me to something I had overlooked:
comic book stores that had Walmart-sized gaming arenas! Now I'm hooked again,
but with people who care more about story than treasure. The amount of work my
DM puts into backstory is insane, and he asks the same of us (well, not insane
levels, but a commitment to character).
TL;DR - Playing D&D as an adult, with adults, is vastly different than playing
as a teen.
------
johnchristopher
I don't like the new crop and the new style. Tables I played were overtly
aggressive in a bad nerdy/intellectual way. I could sense the influence of
mmorpgs and competitive tabletop games. I play for the story and the
camaraderie, not to master loopholes in the rules and asserting dominance
through numbers.
~~~
simonh
D&D 5 has a lot less of that than say 3.0 and 3.5 or Pathfinder, they're gone
a long way to streamline the system. The general trend in RPGs over the last
few decades has been towards lighter weight, more story driven games. I'm not
personally a fan of D&D and it's tropes, and even then I'd go for something
lighter like Dungeon World, but for what it is D&D 5 hits the nail on the
head.
If you're interested, Meetup has a lot of local games groups listed you can
try out to see if you can connect with a like-minded bunch of people.
~~~
johnchristopher
Thanks. I checked meetup again but there are no groups where I live (Belgium).
------
joe_the_user
If anyone is curious, I run a Pathfinder (D&D fork) campaign in the Santa
Rosa, CA area.
[https://www.meetup.com/Sonomacountyrpg/events/pvhbpqyzcbrb/](https://www.meetup.com/Sonomacountyrpg/events/pvhbpqyzcbrb/)
------
jimjimjim
My interest was rekindled by the Acquisitions Incorporated Podcasts with Chris
Perkins and Penny Arcade.
~~~
DaniloDias
It is kinda criminal that they are overlooked in this article. Some genuinely
hilarious content in these videos.
[http://www.acq-inc.com/portfolio/category/live-show](http://www.acq-
inc.com/portfolio/category/live-show)
------
seanmcdirmid
I’ve always liked reading the sources and watching people playing RPGs more
than playing them myself. So all the new litrpg’s that are coming out these
days (eg on royalroaddl) have been great for scratching that itch. I wonder if
this is related to the current resurgence?
------
eltoozero
How funny, I just started picking up some GURPS material because I wanted some
RPG action that wasn’t all dungeon crawling hack n’ slash.
Between Cyberpunk, Illuminati, Atomic Horror, and a little Cthulhupunk, should
be some good times; if I can get a campaign together...
------
loydb
I am still running a campaign that started in 1979, with many of the same
players. We can only manage once/month, because getting 8-9 adults together is
a scheduling nightmare (thanks Doodle!), but we still love it just as much.
~~~
lordnacho
Have the lifestyles of the characters changed with the people who play them?
~~~
Timpy
This is a great question. I can see changes reflected in the characters I want
create as I go through different things in life, and I've only been playing
for a few years.
------
nevster
For anyone interested in checking out what their old collection may be worth,
head over here : [https://www.acaeum.com/](https://www.acaeum.com/)
------
nihil75
I was hoping it's catching with kids, but just adults..
~~~
floren
Two of the photos in the article are of kids playing D&D, and there's mention
of it in the text itself. Kids like D&D.
~~~
nihil75
The kids are playing with their parents: "it didn't take too much convincing
to get the whole family to play, including his 73-year-old grandmother."
The surge in Twitch and podcasting is adults: "One of the most popular live-
play Dungeons & Dragons web series is Critical Role, featuring a core group of
eight professional voice actors adventuring through custom campaigns written
and led by dungeon master Matthew Mercer. "
Why you diss me man
~~~
floren
What the hell are you talking about? Look for the ones captioned "Irvin
Reynolds, top left, leads weekly D&D sessions for kids at Uncle's Games." and
"RPG Research Vice President John Welker leads Dungeons & Dragons sessions for
kids twice a month at Spark Central in Kendall Yards."
------
baroffoos
I would love to play it but physical games require you to meet up and everyone
is too spaced out in this city to visit.
~~~
Pxtl
Lots of folks play these games in video chats.
~~~
C1sc0cat
I am starting a starfinder (pathfinder in space) that is doing that as well as
publishing on yahoo.
------
JimRoepcke
I'd really like to see someone write "The unsurprising resurgence of Dungeons
of Dragons".
------
etxm
I keep thinking I want to get back into D&D. Would love to play some RIFTS or
Shadowrun too.
~~~
mcv
I'm in the process of starting a Shadowrun campaign with old friends. We've
played Pathfinder over the past couple of years, but want to try something
else, particularly after our biggest Pathfinder-fan quit.
------
kraag22
I play something similar to D&D for 20 years and won't stop anytime soon :)
------
Graham24
I am currently DMing The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, every Sunday at 8:30pm.
------
cschep
offtopic! but very cool to see a story from the Inlander that includes bits
and bobs from Spokane, WA come across Hacker News :)
------
cordonbleu
IRC is loaded with channels where games are occuring. mostly closed channels
but very rich and real world complex espescially if you have a channel of
players roleplaying NPCs in character vs a channel of characters playing the
adventure. also echo dot understands what to do if i say echo roll 6d6.
------
shadowbound
Anyone knows how to build alexa skills, i think this is a chance! Alexa
activate D&D skill Alexa how many hit dice does a red dragon have? Alexa how
many days walking from harkenwald to fallcrest?
~~~
ZoomZoomZoom
I think there's some precedent using Alexa for DnD, although I'm not a user
myself.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/6f0s97/i_started_using...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/6f0s97/i_started_using_alexa_with_my_sessions/)
------
luongdukdong
massive data hordes for D&D too.
~~~
3R3130R
Where? i see only an article about it being popular. please tell me where this
data is to be found?
~~~
taormina
open5e.com has some stuff
~~~
Ash_Nazg
thank you :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Medical Research: The Dangers to the Human Subjects - sergeant3
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/nov/19/medical-research-dangers-human-subjects
======
medymed
This article compares medical experimentation with varying levels of
egregiousness, but leaves unmentioned the variable interpretation of the
standard of care used for control groups. Is the standard of care the regimen
that was outlined in the most-cited international guidelines published 6 years
ago, or is it the guideline supplemented by off-label drugs that have gained
widespread usage for their published increase in treatment efficacy but have
not made it into the guidelines yet, because the meeting to rewrite them is
next year? Things change fast in cancer and infectious disease and other
fields, so this becomes important when designing trials.
Anecdotally, it is also interesting to enroll patients in research/trials. The
idea of a fully-informed patient is incomplete in that patients are not
doctors specialising in their disease, so they will always be much less
informed about risks. Even if a patient hears a risk of a treatment is , for
example, aplastic anemia and is 'informed', it would take a few hours to
explain the possible consequences of that one side effect, much less the
others. Consequently, a lot of consenting to research or treatment protocols
involve an immense amount of trust. One patient was skeptical of a research
protocol until it was explained very carefully, after which I chatted with the
family for 1-2 hours waiting for the next blood draw and let them know that I
had put on my bow tie just to see them (which was true). Other patients just
don't even give hearing about it a shot, which is disheartening sometimes.
~~~
tel
Informing patients is a hugely variable thing. It's "fast moving" at the
moment to make it more digitized at least, but that isn't always clearly the
best solution for patients even if it may be an improvement over the rushed PI
interview and boring training video.
I think what's exciting about clinical research—if only in principal!—is that
a doctor has an excuse to spend more time involved in a patient's life and
health. The idea of having an interview with the whole family discussing a
patient's health is pretty interesting even if it comes attached with the
additional burden of understanding an (often complex) trial protocol.
Unfortunately, I think that the idea of being able to schedule enough time for
such an interview (and doing so while wearing your best bow tie) is a rare
one.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Internet Explorer IQ report appears to be a hoax - azazo
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/08/03/explorer.report.faked/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
======
ColinWright
Same story, much discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2840626>
Documenting the re-submissions: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2840900>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
CloudFlare: The Google AdSense Killer - direclap
http://botcrawl.com/cloudflare-the-google-adsense-killer-how-cloudflare-will-destroy-your-google-adsense-earnings-and-harm-your-website/
How CloudFlare Will Destroy Your Google AdSense Earnings And Harm Your Website
======
direclap
How CloudFlare Will Destroy Your Google AdSense Earnings And Harm Your
Website!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wolfram Alpha on Android free today - vivekvinodh
http://www.amazon.com/Wolfram-Alpha-LLC/dp/B004J1DBJI
======
Nadya
Good find. Sucks that Amazon bundles their software with it...makes it
annoying to have to install just for Wolfram then uninstall.
E: I'd like to note that I use Wolfram maybe a few times a month, if that, so
the mobile app isn't really worth it for me to pay for... but if it's free?
Eh, even if I never actually use it on my phone... I might.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Wants the Country to Think Big - howard941
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-congress-interview-797214/
======
brodouevencode
It's insane how much the media are turning this woman into a rockstar.
~~~
wpdev_63
It's because she is a rockstar! Here's her interview with
cohen:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD2hD_PZlZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD2hD_PZlZ8)
Instead of grandstanding like every single other congressman there, she kept
her points sharp and nailed trump of insurance fraud and tax evasion. She's
not just another run of the mill politician.
~~~
YUMad
Instead of grandstanding, she just put her boyfriend on tax-funded payroll.
Totally not a typical politician.
~~~
coreypreston
Whataboutism.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to make a search engine with crawler? - aScii
======
vvvkkk
You need just login on bubblehunt.com
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
MVC - How is it evolving? - misham
http://manulis.com/post/5395989522/evolving-mvc
======
misham
I submitted my blog post here as I'm curious what people on HN think about the
effect of Backbone.js, et al. on how the traditional way of building web
applications using MVC is changing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wikipedia and the Wisdom of Polarized Crowds - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/70/variables/wikipedia-and-the-wisdom-of-polarized-crowds
======
ComputerGuru
One of the reasons I still frequent Hacker News is because there is a very
similar dynamic at play here on topics where informed dissent can bring about
greater awareness and lead to chinks in the hive mind. I think the common
thread is the appeal to authority, and the willingness to admit you've been
"out-sourced" in your stance, whether you're with or against the majority. Of
course there are always those threads that won't die or those individuals that
just keep rehashing the same point, oblivious to the lack of scientific
reasoning or rigor to the arguments, but you learn to spot those pretty
quickly.
~~~
claudiawerner
What kind of bad science rehashed points are you talking about specifically,
which appear on HN?
~~~
mhuffman
There are plenty of items that pop up on HN that get the almonds activated.
Basically anything that has non-conclusive scientific proof and also some
component of ideology gets drama churned up. Here is a short list of examples:
\- IQ, and how much of it is biological
\- Actual differences between biological sexes
\- Anything related to government fiscal or monetary policy
\- The extent (or even existence) of privilege for sexes or races
\- If software should be free
\- If software can be "stolen"
\- Whether it is right or wrong for people to give up so much of their privacy
to FANG
\- ... and so on.
~~~
hhs
I wonder how these would be interpreted with the author's point that:
"Liberal readers preferred basic science (physics, astronomy, zoology), while
conservatives went for applied and commercial science (criminology, medicine,
geophysics). 'It seems like conservatives are happy to draw on science
associated with economic growth—that’s what they want from science,' Evans
said. “Science is more like Star Trek for liberals: traveling through worlds,
searching for new meanings, searching for yourself.'"
I'm curious how these examples would be categorized: when going down the list,
how would a "liberal" and "conservative" group, in general, think about each
example; as basic science or as applied/commercial science?
~~~
asdffdsa
That's interesting, I consider myself more or less conservative, but really
enjoy basic sciences/fields like physics, math, philosophy etc
~~~
hhs
Yeah, I'm curious in the way that the author defines these terms. Did they
take into account fluidity of situations as you relate to? Because I'm sure
there are many groups out there just like this. And what are the boundaries to
these definitions?
------
austincheney
The article title is misleading. It is about the wisdom of diversity in well
refined arguments. People tend to magnify their stupidity and ignorance in
groups to achieve confirmation bias as the beginning of the article eludes.
~~~
jessriedel
Maybe you mistakenly interpreted "polarized crowds" in the title to mean that
a crowd that is extreme in one direction? In fact, it actually does mean
"polarized" in the sense that the crowd contains both poles.
~~~
austincheney
I focused more on the word _crowd_ than _polarized_ and I stand by my previous
comment.
------
hirundo
> If you have these different ideologies, it’s associated with different
> filters on the world, different intakes of information, and so when it comes
> to constructing reference knowledge on an encyclopedic web page that’s
> supposed to thoroughly characterize an area, you do a much better job
> because you have a lot more information that’s attended to by this
> ideologically diverse group.
It's worth noting that this doesn't just apply to groups. There is such a
thing as an ideologically diverse individual. See for example the Ideological
Turing Test [1]. If an individual can successfully apply the filters of
diverse ideologies, they at least have the potential to swap out those filters
and apply them to their scientific judgments.
Perhaps we should should systematically apply and score such tests to
scientists and use the results as additional data with which to evaluate their
work. True, ideologically homogeneous people could learn just enough about
their opponents' views to score well on such a test. But even cynically
pursued, learning to do that would train them to have those diverse lenses in
their toolkit, making them easier to apply and consider.
[1]
[https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.htm...](https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.html)
~~~
abathur
Link in parent is dead; looks like correct is:
[https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.htm...](https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.html)
------
roenxi
This article inspired me to go and compare the Barack Obama and Donald Trump
Wikipedia pages. It is layering subjectivity on top of subjectivity, but the
treatment of Trump does seem pretty fair and the talk page goes into
excruciating detail on any number of topics. The result being an excellent job
done of finding references and characterising the situation with a careful and
mature perspective.
I hadn't thought about it in that light before, but the highly partisan nature
of the Trump Presidency does seem to have resulted in a level of quality that
neither group of partisans would be able to achieve alone. Very encouraging
what good editorial policy can do.
~~~
zone411
That's not a representative example - those are extremely high profile pages
(maybe the highest). Wiki pages for less-known polarizing figures are far
below that standard.
~~~
roenxi
A sample size of 1 is not overwhelming evidence, it is true, but the page
being high profile is a point in favour not against the argument. But if
polerization did reduce quality, I'd expect to see evidence of it on Trump's
wiki page. That doesn't seem to be the case.
Wiki pages for less-known figures being to a lower standard is consistent with
the idea that popular interest + little consensus => high quality, rather than
an alternative such as general consensus on topic => high quality.
~~~
zone411
The edits to most popular pages will be most scrutinized. Obama's and Trump's
talk pages have the most revisions out of all Wikipedia articles [1] and are
second and third most viewed [2], so they are the hardest articles to edit in
a way that won't have hundreds of eyes on them right away. The Wikimedia
Foundation gets $100 mil in revenue per year and having these two pages look
non-neutral would be awful for their fundraising. I think it's just that
extremely high interest => usually high quality and polarizing topics have
lower quality than average. The consensus was never established on some quite
popular controversial articles e.g. [3] and this is heavily criticized by one
side of the argument [4].
[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_reports/Pag...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_reports/Pages_with_the_most_revisions)
[2][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Multiyear_ranking_of...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Multiyear_ranking_of_most_viewed_pages)
[3][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy)
[4][https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/9l30zj/how_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/9l30zj/how_i_joined_gamergate_a_wikipedia_gatekeeping/)
~~~
burfog
That is hardly neutral.
Right in the second full paragraph, Trump's page turns nasty. The fourth full
paragraph is nasty too. OK, seen enough...
Over on Obama's page, every one of the intro paragraphs is nice. I also note
the large section on religion that does not even acknowledge that famous
interview in which he slipped up and said "my Muslim faith".
------
jayd16
In the book study mentioned at the beginning of the article, how is causality
proven such that politics guides scientific interest and not the other way
around? Isn't it a more natural conclusion that your politics is formed by the
media you consume?
------
ggm
Wikipedia toxicity and edit wars?
~~~
mirimir
Sadly enough.
TFA states:
> On the contrary, they showed politically diverse editor teams on Wikipedia
> put out better entries—articles with higher accuracy or completeness—than
> uniformly liberal or conservative or moderate teams.
The problem is that many of Wikipedia's editor teams are not politically
diverse. And some, based on my limited experience, seem totally nonfunctional
and dominated by trolls.
Maybe polarization does generate high-quality articles about popular topics.
But for topics that aren't so broadly polular, toxicity and edit wars seem
more likely.
------
known
Wikipedia is the version of past events that people have decided to agree
upon.
~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
Where _people, version,_ and _agreed upon_ are, or can be, dynamic.
To wit, Wikipedia allows us to _view history_ , view / participate in _talk_ ,
and even _edit_ an entry.
Indeed, for any sufficiently complex topic, it would seem to me, there is
ongoing and lively debate, or at least discussion. Perhaps even new evidence
from time to time.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: WebRTC Serverless 2-player 2048 Game with Annotated Source - chrischen
http://www.instapainting.com/2x2048/index.html
======
aikah
"Serverless" ? how do players connect with each others? I bet it isn't
serverless at all. When will developers stop using these buzzwords that are
effectively lies, from a strict technical point? There was no need to shove
"serveless" anywhere in that title.
~~~
chrischen
Its webrtc, so direct peer to peer connections during gameplay.
If you just looked at the code you can see for yourself.
~~~
aikah
> Its webrtc, so direct peer to peer connections during gameplay.
How does one player knows I'm connected without a server that tracks remote
connections ? please explain.
edit: no need to explain, the library you are using does use a server, off
course, I quote your comment :
> I believe PeerJS does use a server to broker conmections.
this isn't serverless, since it relies on a server. This is an important point
and shouldn't be obfuscated by "serverless" buzzworld. Furthermore I doubt
your project is going to run if I double click on an HTML page on my harddrive
to launch it, it has to be hosted somewhere.
~~~
chrisbraddock
It'd be cool if you knew what you were talking about. These definitely can be
made to be serverless if you really needed to stick to that strict definition
of the word. However, there _is_ a small "introduction" broker (server)
involved in most of these kind of WebRTC apps. It basically says, "player A -
meet player B. player B - meet player A" \- after that the clients talk
directly to one another and that server can completely go away and the multi-
player functionality will work just fine. The clients communicate peer to peer
after that.
~~~
aikah
> It'd be cool if you knew what you were talking about.
It'd be cool if people stop using bullshit buzzword in order to promote a
project. There is a server period. It doesn't matter if "it does only a small
thing". that bullshit needs to stop and I will call anybody engaged into
bullshiting others out as long as they keep doing that.
The client talks directly to the other client but in order to connect 2
clients at first place you need a server to connect peers.
That's what you call serverless ? then that's a lie, period.
It's obviously you who don't have a clue what you are talking about.
"serverless" needs to die, no application that relies on the web is
serverless, there is always a server.
~~~
chrisbraddock
Dude. You're really focusing on the wrong thing here. No one is lying or
attempting to deceive. At worst, the term is being used loosely - at worst. At
best it's only referring to the portion of the work that happens during "multi
player".
I get your frustration with software development jargon but this seems like an
odd choice to attack.
And to two of your points, here's a version that is "serverless", and can run
completely from the file system.
[https://github.com/cjb/serverless-webrtc](https://github.com/cjb/serverless-
webrtc)
But is it truly "serverless"? I mean the file system is serving the file up to
the browser!
C'mon.
Oh, and in case you were going to point out that there's a server involved in
the link I posted because, "the WebRTC offer/answer exchange is performed
manually by the users, _for example_ via IM", (emphasis mine) - the
information could just as easily be written on a piece of paper and exchanged
via carrier pigeon. The pigeon may still technically be a server, in an
architectural sense I suppose, but hopefully at that point you'd agree we're
taking the argument past the point of any sensibility.
------
chrischen
Note: due to lack of support for WebRTC in Safari, the demo won't work on iOS
or Mac Safari.
------
n-gauge
This looks like a good source to learn WebRTC data channels. Correct?
~~~
fiatjaf
I've searched the internet for a quick demo/tutorial of WebRTC that teached me
to send a text from one computer to another. Couldn't find anything small and
simple enough and still usable. Wrote this:
[https://gist.github.com/fiatjaf/229a5db2f431ab707e3fb909240d...](https://gist.github.com/fiatjaf/229a5db2f431ab707e3fb909240dcdf2),
it may be worth of your reading.
------
chrischen
Happy to answer any technical questions.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Use of the Apostrophe in the English Language - someperson
http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/apostrophe/
======
elblanco
Lame, didn't even cover the clusterf*k that is the apostrophe and year ranges.
1990s vs. 1990's vs 90s vs 90's vs '90s vs '90's
or the could've, could have, could of corrupted homophone disaster.
Like most things in English, apostrophes kind of have a standard, basic, rule
concept (used before an s when making a possessive), then the rest is common
exceptions (contractions, plural form possessives) and options (decade ranges)
which are only options to certain people and necessary to others, except for
the very specific exceptions (plural single letters, quoted plurals, quoted
possessives, possessive and plural, words naturally ending in s, glottal
stops, un-lettered syllable accents, clicks, silent but looks cool), which
nobody remembers correctly except those being pedantic and never seem to
really muss up anybody's understanding of the meaning.
Anybody who thinks they know all the apostrophe rules most likely doesn't.
Even <http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe> which captures some of the
complexity mises a bunch of these cases and inserts one I've never seen -- the
quoted single letter plural.
The only rule you have to remember is this, "what are the grammar rules that
your readers will be assuming are the rules, follow those for comprehension."
~~~
stcredzero
To paraphrase Spaceballs: Bad grammar will always win because readers are
dumb!
------
stcredzero
_In the decade since, Slashdot has provided a bottomless well of bad writing,
couldn't-care-less editing, and profound ignorance of virtually every aspect
of the real world. It has set the standard for moronic prose, and deserves
being remembered as we try to meet and exceed the abysmal benchmark it has
made_
Ironically, it is considered a bastion of knowledge by many today. Most of
that is due to the depths to which the net has sunk in general. That said, it
is a source of real knowledge and insight. When something egregious enough is
posted, a real expert is often driven to post an informative reply from their
personal experience.
------
vorg
No problem with rules 1 (its, it's) and 4 (pronouns never use apostrophe). Re
rule 2, most contractions can be confused with other words, and look very
wrong, if the apostrophe is omitted, but a few (e.g. youre, mustnt) still look
OK. Re rule 3, some plural possessive nouns look OK without the apostrophe
(e.g. "horses hooves" for "horses' hooves"). I'd never skip the apostrophe for
a singular noun though (e.g. horse's hooves). Re rule 5 (Plurals never use
apostrophe), when the word is an acronym or capitalized, I'd put an apostrophe
in (e.g. the four B52's, I've received 7 RSVP's so far).
------
RyanMcGreal
Still my favourite commentary on the abused apostrophe:
<http://www.reddit.com/comments/65hz7/>
------
chanux
The oatmeal has it with nice graphics.
<http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe>
But is it just me or the possession example doesn't match with the recap?
~~~
shrikant
Bob the Angry Flower holds forth as well - <http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif>
------
byoung2
There is a lot of confusion about the possessive form of singular proper nouns
that end in "s". I've seen it both ways and have never found a consistent
pattern in American English. Historical figures usually just get an
apostrophe, and normal people get an apostrophe and an "s". Example: "Jesus'
desciples" vs "Chris's bicycle". There are exceptions to even this rule,
however, such as "Zeus's infidelity". For regular nouns, it seems more
consistent ("for goodness' sake" but never "for goodness's sake"). Does anyone
know a concrete rule for this?
~~~
nethergoat
It's a stylistic choice, so opinions vary, but the simplest guide I've found
is to simply check the intended pronunciation. If you would pronounce the 's
as its own syllable, include it (e.g., "Chris's"); it not, don't (e.g.,
"Mephistopheles'").
------
moomba
Looks like a typo in Rule 3. Should say, "Possessive nouns never use an
apostrophe." This point is alluded to in the body of the rule.
------
hackermom
I personally never had problems with the rules. They are quite clear to me,
apart from that one common pitfall: its vs. it's, which is probably the most
common pitfall people never memorize. I still don't want to put blame on the
English language, but rather on lack of attention from the student - there is
just no excuse for ignorance.
~~~
CWuestefeld
I never got what the confusion is over the possessive form of "it". I mean,
nobody ever writes "hi's" or "her's"; why would they want to do so with "it"?
One rule he alluded to but didn't make explicit is over the possessive form of
words already ending in "s". We know that one does _not_ add an "s" if the
word is a plural form that already ends with that letter.
What he doesn't directly address is _singular_ words that end in "s". For
example, my first name is "Chris". I've seen many people refer to "Chris'
stuff", but I believe this is incorrect. Because my terminal "s" was not the
result of pluralization, I'm still entitled to a possessive "s": "Chris's
stuff".
~~~
hackermom
That's actually the correct way - at least so say all of the old (and most
new) books on English grammar. If the word ends with a written S, you don't
add another one after the "possessive apostrophe".
Some teachers go the extra mile by saying that this rule also goes if the word
ends with any consonant pronounced with an S sound; "Alix' room"; but not if
it ends with a pronounced S sound followed by a silent vowel; "Belize's
beaches". I personally follow this rule.
~~~
hugh3
That's the rule (not sure about the X thing, that just looks wrong). Where I
really get confused is the correct pronunciation for that. If it was "Chris'
stuff" I'd probably put in an extra "es" sylalble at the end of "Chris" just
to make it clear. On the other hand if you're talking about, say, "Jesus'
stuff" then saying "Jesuses" sounds silly.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece - e15ctr0n
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21684138-disney-making-fortune-and-safeguarding-its-future-buying-childhood-piece-piece
======
tunesmith
FYI, the first part of the article spoils some minor things about the new star
wars film, for those who haven't seen it. I bailed out of reading it after
that.
~~~
lambda
At some point, you have to stop considering any discussion of a movie as
spoiler.
The term "spoiler" should be reserved for a reveal that actually spoils the
movie; where some crucial element of the movies emotional impact can be taken
away by knowing some fact in advance that is held secret through the movie.
The discussion in the first paragraph here pretty much just covers the
exposition in the credits, and the material you learn very early on about one
of the main characters.
I feel like treating this kind of information as a spoiler will just lead you
to endless anxiety until you have seen every possible movie that could be
"spoiled" for you this way. Why not just relax, accept that people are going
to do some light discussion of movies, and reserve your outrage for actual
spoilers of surprising plot points, mysteries solved, puzzles spoiled, and the
like?
~~~
matrixagent
OP didn't seem outraged to me, just a bit disappointed. Which I understand,
because "at some point" is still far away for the new Star Wars movie. I do
think that any discussion of a movie is a spoiler. It depends, but from
friends I don't even want to know if they liked a movie or not as I know them
and their taste so well that I will deduce things which will influence my
experience. I want my experience as pristine as possible, which is hard enough
without articles mentioning tiny details about plots that they just don't need
to mention for the point they are making.
~~~
lambda
When I say "at some point", I don't mean that that's the timeline for a
particular movie. I mean at some point in your life, it is better to let go of
the idea of walking into a movie in a completely pristine state with no
expectation about what will happen in it.
Otherwise, either you have to cut yourself off from all media and conversation
that might possibly reference the movie, or try and convince everyone you
might interact with, and everyone who might write anything online, not to
discuss the movie. Neither option seems particularly pleasant nor realistic to
achieve. I suppose you could also just see every movie you intend to see on
the first showing of the opening day.
What you are doing by asking for absolutely no information at all, even the
basic exposition and setup of characters at the beginning of the movie, is
imposing a large burden on everyone else around you to prevent a very minor
inconvenience to yourself. I understand not wanting major spoilers, and that
there should be a reasonable time before discussing those points openly
without a spoiler warning. But it just seems that the trade-off is fairly poor
for not even allowing the most basic discussion.
~~~
matrixagent
In that case I guess my trouble with your point of view lies not with the "at
some point" phrase but rather with the generalization implied by "any
discussion". That argument is almost always used against people who complain
about spoilers, and sadly it's often insultingly non-understanding. I'm not
saying that all discussion are spoilers. While my personal wish is to not know
anything about a movie before seeing it (which I have never regretted
afterwards, by the way – the opposite, having advance knowledge, has not hurt
the experience always, but it has never ever improved it), I realize that this
is hard to achieve and requires _me_ to take care of that, not everyone else.
As you mention, that would impose too much of a burden on everyone else.
But that does not mean there is not still a lot of stuff that really should be
considered spoilers, and the complaints about these should not be brushed off
just because you think I expect you to not mention anything about a movie. I
think it's a very valid criticism when the article in question reveals
something that even the trailers kept unknown by never showing that person,
without any need for it in the context of the article. It's like saying "The
Sixth Sense, where he was dead all along, was quite good, I loved the
cinematography." a week after that movie was released. While I personally
would not have wanted to know about the cinematographical quality either, I
realize I can't complain about hearing something like that when reading a
review or when I'm not fleeing a discussion of the movie quickly enough. I
never would complain about that. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who would
be pretty annoyed to read said plot detail in an article about e.g. "The
decline of quality in M. Night Shyamalan movies" a week after that movies
release.
To sum it up: I agree with your basic point, but I think too often people that
are fine with spoilers don't care about the fact that other people have a
different level of acceptance and when confronted with that simply resort to
saying "Well, it's silly to have this level of acceptance."
------
Archio
Reading this gives me a chill down my spine. There's something about a
corporation controlling, optimizing, monetizing, and branding dominant
components of a childhood that just doesn't seem right.
~~~
rayiner
If we weren't raising our kids to be such consumers--turning stupid shit like
Star Wars into "cultural experiences"\-- Disney wouldn't have any power. They
can't own sticks and dirt.
~~~
AndrewKemendo
You know the worst part? You can't even prevent it if you are raising your
kids otherwise.
My 5 year old has never seen a Disney movie, yet she told me today that for
her 6th birthday she wants a Cinderella shirt and an Elsa costume - both
characters she has never actually seen on screen. Her friends at school all
talk about it though and recount fantastic stories.
I hear from people saying that we will raise a kid who is out of the loop, so
she won't be able to relate and will be an outcast if we don't keep her up to
date with all the trends like her peers.
At a certain point as a parent, it's kind of like, it doesn't really matter
what we do.
~~~
anon4
You could think of it like, once Disney has permeated our culture to such a
degree, people would collectively decide they don't deserve to own them and
their kids and erode copyright.
_The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip
through your fingers._
~~~
rayiner
The problem is not that Disney can own entertainment products they create. The
problem is our society elevating base entertainment to the level of cultural
artifact. Disney has no power if people don't treat their disposable trinkets
like sacred totems.
The post near the top about spoilers is a good example. We're all supposed go
out of our way go protect the sanctified experience of the movie for true
believers. How messed up is that?
------
Animats
When Disney acquires Barbie, their domination will be complete.
(Check out "Hello Barbie", in stores now.[1] Now your kids can talk to Barbie
and she'll talk back. Barbie has a WiFi connection to servers back at Mattel
HQ running AI software. "ToyTalk, the tech company that partnered with Mattel
to bring Hello Barbie to life, stores by default everything the doll records
for at least two years to help it better analyze children’s speech." Coming up
next, Cognitoys, plush animals powered by IBM's Watson system and able to
answer hard questions.)
[1]
[http://shop.mattel.com/product/index.jsp?productId=65561726](http://shop.mattel.com/product/index.jsp?productId=65561726)
[2] [https://cognitoys.com](https://cognitoys.com)
~~~
angersock
I'm somewhat reminded of Harrison's "I Always Do What Teddy Says"
([https://opalcp12.wikispaces.com/file/view/I+Always+Do+What+T...](https://opalcp12.wikispaces.com/file/view/I+Always+Do+What+Teddy+Says.pdf)).
~~~
StavrosK
SPOILER ALERT! The story was a bit hard to believe, as it claims that everyone
who wasn't conditioned against it (like none of us are) would just grow up to
be a sociopath and kill their parents without second thought.
------
freshyill
Not going to read it due to the spoilers, but I give Disney a lot of credit.
They've done pretty well by Pixar, and exceedingly well by Marvel.
Disney is certainly a corporate behemoth out to make a buck, but I really
believe that it's accompany that understands these properties, and wants
people to love them.
Disney knows fans will not continue to flock to prequel-quality Star Wars
films. Even the die-hard fans have a limit. These movies need to be excellent
if they're going to continue to draw audiences. George Lucas himself doesn't
understand what makes the original trilogy so special to fans, which is why
Disney is putting fans like JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson at the helm of these
new movies. It seems like they're off to a great start. I have faith they'll
continue to be great.
Edit: First sentence: _I_ , not _u_. Yikes, what a typo.
~~~
Jtsummers
If you're worried about the spoiler that some people seem to think is in the
article, skip the first paragraph. It merely starts the narrative, it doesn't
contain any content pertinent to the discussion of the article beyond that it
may or may not contain a spoiler.
------
zekevermillion
There was some magic to the 80s childhood movies -- Star Wars, ET, Last
Starfighter, Goonies -- that I don't think can be bottled. Whatever stories
hold that place for our kids, I don't think they will be the same movies that
did it for us. There's just something about seeing Star Wars in the context of
that time, and it's not the same as seeing it now.
~~~
AndrewKemendo
It's because you were (presumably) a kid back then - and everything was much
more magical then because it was your whole world and imagination. Just like
old people now state how much better the 50s were, because that's when they
were children.
I pretty much discount anytime someone says "It was better when I was a kid."
~~~
wavefunction
There is actually something different with these 80s movies for kids _and_
adults. Part of it was some true courage in the story-telling, for what movie
studio of today would allow a character like "Sloth" from the Goonies to end
up in a movie? Darkness along with the light. And sincerity in both rather
than vapid "sarcasm." These movies have soul and heart.
Not saying that similar movie magic is impossible now or in the future, but in
the current world of profit-driven decisions on creative direction it seems
unlikely for the foreseeable future.
~~~
AndrewKemendo
Seriously? ANY pixar film puts those to shame in terms of depth. The entire
back story of UP was about a widower; Finding Nemo, same story - talk about
darkness and light. How about The Incredibles, Wall-E, Monsters Inc, all
fantastic story telling and incredible depth. It even goes further back than
80s, to movies like The Sound of Music with the Nazis.
Again, your biases are only fuzzy nostalgia and it seemed bigger to you then
cause your brain couldn't contextualize it as well.
------
Super_Jambo
It is down right perverse that you have a discussion of how Disney is buying
childhood without a discussion of copyright laws they're also buying...
------
deciplex
Basically nothing about Disney's strategy would be wrong, or even harmful,
provided copyright terms were something reasonable rather than infinite as a
practical matter. By now _anyone_ should have been allowed to make "The Force
Awakens" and without paying $4.1 billion for the privilege, either.
~~~
cwyers
I'm not so sure I agree. First of all, it's not like anyone could have made
this movie without significant financial resources -- reportedly it cost $200
million to make, and it looks it (not to mention, Harrison Ford isn't coming
back for cheap). Nobody without a large commercial stake in it was going to be
able to make a movie like this.
That doesn't justify current copyright laws (trademarks alone might be
sufficient to keep someone from making Star Wars VIII even if copyright was
allowed to lapse on ordinary time rather than being constantly extended to
keep Steamboat Willy out of the public domain), but collaborative works of
fiction require big financial commitments sometimes to get made.
~~~
deciplex
You're assuming that the monopoly on IP is necessary to get a good return on a
film like this. It's also arguable that copyright law made this film more
expensive than it otherwise would have been - I don't think your $200 million
figure includes the cost of buying the franchise in the first place.
------
samfisher83
It seemed like new star wars was a remake of the old star wars. I think people
people know what they like and they just want it repackaged in a slightly
different form. Surprised they haven't gone out and brought out hasbro and
mattel.
~~~
brazzledazzle
I know a lot of people are probably going to want to yell at me but I think it
needed to be remade. And I say this as a fan. I don't think a non-fan would
pour over Star Wars vehicle cross sections. What they did was remake it in the
best way possible given their constraints (old diehard fans) and I think it
was done smartly and tastefully. Done this way you get new fans without losing
a lot of them to appeasing old fans and old fans without losing a lot of them
to appeasing new fans.
~~~
Alex3917
Except for that it wasn't supposed to be a remake, rather this was just a case
of everyone involved phoning it in. I think Andrew O'Hehir said it best, "it's
the Citibank of movies, literally too big to fail." Right now everyone has
been brainwashed into loving it because of Disney's billion-dollar marketing
spend. But much like Bush's popularity after 9/11, sooner or later reality is
going to catch up.
As a kid part of the magic of Star Wars was that you could sort of imagine
there was an entire universe of interesting stories and characters beyond what
was pictured in the movies. But J.J. Abrams has made it abundantly clear that
no, actually, there was never anything else there.
~~~
dlp211
[STAR WARS: TFA SPOILERS AHEAD] I don't understand how you got to this
conclusion. There were more interesting characters and missing backstory in
this single movie than in the OT. Characters like Phasma, Maz, the old man
that give Poe the map, Poe, Snoke, and the rest of the Knights of Ren. And
while there were many parallels between the new movie and the OT, it also
introduced and developed a ton of extremely strong new characters, namely
Finn, Kylo, Poe, and Rey. My biggest gripes with the new film was Death Star
3.0 and the helo pan at the end, neither of which were really intricate to the
story. Also the acting was head and shoulders above any of the previous films
and the most impressive thing was how real everything felt, from the
Stormtroopers humanization to the land battling and dog fighting.
~~~
andrewingram
There's also the fact that entire antagonist team seems desperate to be bigger
and badder than what came before (with the possible exception of Snoke who is
somewhat mysterious). I took the new super-weapon to be a symptom of this. A
healthy number of tropes were both subverted and upheld by the film, a pattern
I hope continues.
------
EGreg
I don't know. I loved some Disney movies and appreciated their art growing up
but never bought the action figures or anything. I also went to disneyland
once and disneyworld once to check them out, but I went to six flags twice.
Oh, and I visited disneyland while in Paris, to show the girl I was with from
Moldova, who had never been.
I guess maybe it's because I'm a child of immigrants. I don't see what the big
deal is. Everyone commercializes and ties stuff in. Many if you are probably
users of the whole Apple ecosystem.
------
patch45
It's fascinating how strongly we feel about things we were exposed to as
children. Exploiting that seems inevitable.
~~~
knughit
Which is why the US original law put a 14-28 year limit on it
------
javery
This is why I bet they buy Nintendo at some point.
~~~
beedogs
It's why I hope they're broken up under antitrust law at some point.
~~~
rangibaby
I have been thinking that over the past couple of days too. In Japan, Disney
everything is literally _everywhere_. How do you think that work out? Split
into parks and movies?
------
swang
> Marvel turned the story of a second-tier character, Iron Man, into a
> blockbuster.
Iron Man was popular enough to have a 90s cartoon made for him. I'm not sure
how he is second-tier...
~~~
eru
Definitely second tier in mainstream culture compared to Batman and Superman
---which are universally known.
------
cup
Whats the point in putting a complex image up if I can't zoom in to read it.
------
free2rhyme214
Is the only way to beat Disney to build another Pixar?
------
e15ctr0n
What if Disney bought Netflix and/or Valve?
~~~
desdiv
They can't afford Netflix, at least not any time soon. Netflix's market cap is
almost a third of Disney's right now.
~~~
sangnoir
That's nothing financiers (banks) can't solve. There are historical examples
of smaller companies buying larger one (especially interesting as a counter-
maneuver to a hostile take over bid: though it doesn't usually end well)
------
rasputhin
Isn't this what all profit driven companies targeting children would do?
Should do?
------
olewhalehunter
"Inside Out" made me fucking furious. No child should have such an calcified
perspective of mind or language shoved down their throat at such an early age
by a global corporation.
~~~
codemac
I watched it and I thought it was cute. I would like to hear more about what
made you so furious - it's a perspective I didn't get while watching or with
other people I spoke with after. Maybe I'm already disney brain washed.
~~~
olewhalehunter
Emotions are so much more complex than our terrible labels for them, and much
of your emotional sense of self comes from the language your parents branded
you with for the most cultural convenience: '"Anger" is bad! It's your fault
in not handling "it", not ours or the systems', but "Anger" in-of-itself
doesn't exist outside of language, just the nebulous array of feelings and
reactions we've been to coniditoned to label as "Anger", what this film
effectively did was create an false emotional framework for children to rely
on in the future, which should fucking terrify you because so much of modern
society and capitalism is built on neurological manipulation to get you to buy
things and not disrupt systems of power. The movie was nothing less than
brainwashing.
~~~
bitwize
Actually psychologists have identified seven basic emotions: fear, anger, joy,
sadness, surprise, contempt, and disgust. "Surprise" was considered similar
enough to "fear" that Pixar made one character out of them; the same goes for
"contempt" and "disgust". Complexity in emotions arises from their
interactions, much like how we perceive a spectrum of colors as a mixture of
three primaries.
Most of the professionals in the field who saw _Inside Out_ have praised it
for getting the basics of emotion and memory right, even if it isn't super
accurate. It is after all a cartoon.
~~~
olewhalehunter
Is there any evidence those labels aren't a product of linguistics and
culture? Two things developed during childhood that Disney is working to
profit from? Did those professionals grow up watching Disney movies?
~~~
isolate
The labels are based on experiments and are cross-cultural.
~~~
olewhalehunter
Are you insinuating those cross-cultural experiments predate the institutions
of culture and language that produced them? Sounds a bit like time travel.
~~~
isolate
They looked at people's facial expressions, it wasn't based on self-reporting
of emotion. The subjects were treated as animals in a biology experiment. You
can look it up easily enough, the guy's name is Silvan Tomkins and the work is
known as "affect theory".
------
joering2
Many of you will downvote me for sharing this, but parents will appreciate:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUwchCeeI4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUwchCeeI4)
DO NOT let your kids watch Disney!
~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
Saving you a click, the title of the video is "Illuminati Hypersexualization
of Children Exposed! Disney Pedophilia and Satanic Rolemodels".
~~~
joering2
Did you watch it?
Since when is youtube about reading titles?? This title is misleading; it's
all about Disney as empire.
~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
The abstract is "Exposing subliminal sexualizing content aimed at young
children from Hollywood, TV shows, Movies, and the pedophile fashion industry.
Disney channel and Disney movies exposed. Young girls being turned into
miniature sex kittens. Illuminati brainwashing and destruction of Morality",
and the preview image shows a young girl drinking out of a penis-shaped
bottle.
Furthermore, there are comments (never read the comments) like " This truly
shows we live in a sick ass perverted world even looking at the scene from a
reality show at the 28:00 mark that the fat bitch is telling little girls they
should make the audenice think they are naked to that i say sick ass world
there would be no way in hell that this type of shit would've been on tv 30
years ago & if it ever did make it on tv back then every tv watchdog group
across the country would have called for the networks to take shows like this
off the air....."
Even furthermore, the suggested video page has videos like "Dead babied in
Your Food", "Martin Lawrence EXPOSES Illuminati", "Lil Wayne says the
Illuminati is changing the world for the Mark of the Beast".
EDIT: One of the suggested videos is of clear importance to the Hacker News
community:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbldNqL6LOI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbldNqL6LOI)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
China's voluntary organ donation data perfectly fit quadratic equation - datashow
https://mobile.twitter.com/mprobertson/status/1195151387585216512
======
thedudeabides5
If the organ donation data is cooked, imagine the incentive to massage market
moving data like GDP, industrial production, inflation....
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Disputed NSA Phone Program Is Shut Down, Aide Says - tysone
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/nsa-phone-records-program-shut-down.html
======
Jerry2
One program is shutting down (according to who knows whom) but that doesn't
mean that other programs are doing the exact same thing. NY Times is again
acting as a limited hangout [0] for various spy agencies.
One of the things we learned from Congressional hearings (from James Clapper
and others) and from whistleblowers like William Binney and Snowden is that
these intelligence agencies change the meaning of words. Things like
"collection" and "analysis" don't mean what you think they mean. When they say
"we don't collect X" that just means they don't collect X under the program
they're testifying about. If there are other programs, they won't tell you
about those or will only testify in secret. Sometimes they outright lie about
things too as we found out from Clapper's testimony.
Anyway, don't believe a word they say. This data is way too valuable to be
abandoned. If not the NSA, someone else will be collecting it, analyzing it
and disseminating it through some database within the IC.
[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout)
~~~
nilskidoo
They're shutting it down in the same way they shut down terrorists.
~~~
huffmsa
Not sure about the down boats here. The program caught and/or stopped
precisely 0 (ZERO) terrorists. It also failed to harvest any data regarding
"Muh Russians".
It and many other NSA projects are about as effective as the TSA.
~~~
naasking
I also believe the number is very low, but let's be fair: it's not clear that
they would publish any terrorists they did catch, because then that reveals
how they were caught, which terrorists can then use to adapt their tactics.
~~~
JustSomeNobody
They have to give the politicians something to brag about so funding doesn't
go down.
------
superkuh
An anonymous "aide" says so? This statement is worth absolutely nothing like
every other anonymously sorced comment from government officials that the NYT
scrawls.
~~~
anarazel
The aide is actually not anonymous if you follow the story a bit. If you
follow the links in the story you can easily figure it out.
I think it's good to not expose career staffers to the full public public
wrath without need. Making it more painful for staffers to talk to the public
will just get you less of that, nothing else.
~~~
superkuh
I suppose that's a bit better but I was kind of objecting to the NYT and other
large papers habit of sourcing these anonymous comments from government
officials. This is not a one-off thing. It's their status quo.
~~~
anarazel
It just seems like it has nothing to do with the article. Upon rereading they
even have his name in there:
Mr. Murry, who is an adviser for Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, raised doubts over the weekend about whether that debate will be necessary. His remarks came during a podcast for the national security website Lawfare.
~~~
superkuh
It did. But they changed the article (for the better!). It's too bad that
Newsdiffs no longer works.
[http://newsdiffs.org/article-
history/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww....](http://newsdiffs.org/article-
history/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2019%2F03%2F04%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fnsa-
phone-records-program-shut-down.html)
------
KorematsuFred
Credibility Score: Gas Stations Sushi 0.24 NSA : 0.01
~~~
mediawatch05
The Chinese government is doing all this and more. So is Iran, No Ko, Russia,
to the greatest extent they can.
Credibility score:
US government agencies: 0.52
UK, Aus, Canada govts: 0.6
Chinese government: 0.01
~~~
KorematsuFred
The question is does USA see Russia, China, Iran as its peers and want to be
in their league or not.
It is okay to be a despotic regime as long as you also face the risks that
come along with it. USA does not face such risks and hence it can not be okay
to compare it with say Russia.
I am reminded of the following (obviously fictional) story where Ronald Regan
and Gorbachev wondered who had the most loyal soldiers. Ronald Regan asked one
of his bodyguard to shoot himself to show his loyalty. The bodyguard laughed
and asked Regan to fuck off. Gorbachev asked the same of his bodyguard who
promptly shot himself to death. Regan was very surprised and asked Gorbachev
as to how come his bodyguard was so loyal. Gorbachev said, he was protecting
his family by killing himself.
I do not think China, Russia or Saudi Barbaria are worthwhile bechmarks for
USA. Those countries have achieved little and will continue to achieve little.
------
mehrdadn
Any reason to believe there aren't other programs doing similar things?
~~~
dsfyu404ed
Death by a thousand cuts.
Building a haystack to search for needles isn't free. If it's not delivering
enough needles then people are going to be under pressure to end the program.
I think a lot of people in government have smartened up to the fact that these
things can be just as easily used against them if they fall out of favor and
that having this sort of ongoing data collection could become liability if the
wrong kind of people are in charge. The kinds of things Muller has chosen to
prosecute certainly makes a lot of people in Washington nervous about their
skeletons in the closet so there's less political tolerance of these kinds of
programs than there once was. Snowden's leaks and greater public knowledge of
these programs have reduced public support. It frees up resources to go after
Russian trolls (or whatever), hunting terrorists is so 2005. There really is
no way you can justify a program like this in 2019 (or so we hope), they've
been proven ineffective and unpopular.
~~~
mycall
Conversely, their vacuum everything approach could have landed them additional
evidence against Russian hackers.
~~~
jessaustin
It would be nice if NSA did something about ransomware, but I'm not holding my
breath... they seem to have other priorities.
------
huffmsa
The lack of trust in these comments is heartening.
"Shutting down this program" != "No longer collecting and analyzing this data"
NYT continues it's path to full mouthpiece for MiniTruth.
~~~
JetSpiegel
It was MiniTru. Off to Room 101 with you.
------
14
Does anyone actually believe this? Call me skeptical, but would they not just
shut down "this" program them redesign it, adjust it a little, call it
something different and act as if they were completely honest with the people
and continue on doing exactly the same thing under a different name?
~~~
dylan604
“Black briar is a program that we thought showed a lot of promise, but didn’t
pan out so we’re shutting it down. This next project Treadstone is something
we think really has some legs...”
------
posterboy
... because everything runs over IP now and old "phone" interconnects aren't
used nyway. Jinxed!
------
gscott
The NSA doesn't need to collect anything:
"AT&T’s Project Atmosphere was unveiled Tuesday by the Daily Beast to be
secretly selling customer data to law enforcement agencies for the purpose of
investigating everything from murder to medical fraud."
[https://www.newsweek.com/att-spying-program-worse-snowden-
re...](https://www.newsweek.com/att-spying-program-worse-snowden-
revelations-513812)
Letter to the SEC from AT&T (linked below)
"Hemisphere is a government program, its design and scope are determined by
governmental authorities, and AT&T has a legal compliance program in place in
response to authorized intelligence and law enforcement efforts."
[https://www.sec.gov/divisions/corpfin/cf-
noaction/14a-8/2017...](https://www.sec.gov/divisions/corpfin/cf-
noaction/14a-8/2017/ewencampen013017-14a8.pdf)
\-------------
[https://reason.com/blog/2013/09/02/report-dea-has-been-
secre...](https://reason.com/blog/2013/09/02/report-dea-has-been-secretly-
snooping-on)
[https://www.fastcompany.com/40590766/atts-long-
partnership-w...](https://www.fastcompany.com/40590766/atts-long-partnership-
with-nsa-is-just-another-swamp-romance)
[https://www.cnet.com/news/dea-supplied-with-access-to-
vast-d...](https://www.cnet.com/news/dea-supplied-with-access-to-vast-
database-of-at-t-phone-records/)
[https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2016/10/25/atandt-
report...](https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2016/10/25/atandt-reportedly-
has-a-secret-program-that-helps-law-enforcement/21591852/)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/07/cia-said-to-pay-att-for-
call...](https://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/07/cia-said-to-pay-att-for-call-
data.html)
[https://www.aclu.org/other/hepting-v-att-challenging-
corpora...](https://www.aclu.org/other/hepting-v-att-challenging-corporate-
collusion-nsa)
[https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2016/10/27/u-s-taxpayers-
pay-a...](https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2016/10/27/u-s-taxpayers-pay-att-
millions-of-dollars-a-year-for-the-privilege-of-spying-on-them/)
------
marcrosoft
If you say so...
------
skookumchuck
Consider the ever-widening of demands for papers and records of Trump
associates in an effort to find something, anything, to get him on, or at
least discourage anyone from working in the White House, and isolate Trump.
It's an example of the government using its investigative powers for political
purposes. I recall when Nixon tried to sic the IRS on his enemies.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Reading list of Christof Koch with brief reviews - DanielleMolloy
https://www.alleninstitute.org/what-we-do/brain-science/about/team/staff-profiles/christof-koch/book-list/
======
DanielleMolloy
His list on the Caltech servers, before 2013:
[http://www.klab.caltech.edu/koch/books-i-
read.html](http://www.klab.caltech.edu/koch/books-i-read.html)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Look at this thing I built - dwwoelfel
http://www.idyllicpast.com
======
dwwoelfel
I made this.
It runs on Google App Engine and uses the new HNSearch API to get the
comments.
The goal is to present people with things from the internet that they liked in
the past. I think that sending people their HN comments is a good way to test
the idea.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
In 50 Years Steve Jobs Will Be Forgotten - bluedevil2k
http://m.cnet.com/news/in-50-years-steve-jobs-will-be-forgotten-gladwell-says/57449162
======
michaelpinto
Not true -- people will remember Steve Jobs for his Pixar films. I also
suspect that Bill Gates may be remembered more for his philanthropic work than
his tech work if he can pull off something big. As for tech we still associate
Edison with film and records, so Jobs and Gates may still have a shot at it.
------
zashapiro
While I enjoyed some of Gladwell's writing, this is bullshit. If you don't
think that copying happens everywhere, you should watch
everythingisaremix.info. Jobs took pieces of a million things and put them
together in a way that made the most sense and connected culturally. Jobs
won't be forgotten for a long, long time, just as Thomas Edison hasn't been
forgotten. Gladwell's flat wrong on this.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Same as It Ever Was: Why the Techno Optimists Are Wrong - jeffreyrogers
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2015-06-16/same-it-ever-was
======
tim333
He seems a bit downbeat on the whole thing speaking as a bit of a techno
optimist myself. Viewing Earth's history from a long perspective the main
events would likely be big bang, planet forms, biological life evolves and
then 13.8bn years after the big bang technology becomes smart and evolves.
We're on the verge of the latter. It's unlikely to be the same as it ever was.
I've never been keen on out minds being fastened to a dying animal, as Yeats
put it. Roll on the singularity.
------
Dowwie
Thanks for sharing. In this issue, Foreign Affairs presents a more balanced,
constructive editorial on the changes in society presented by technology.
There is more of this theme in other media, such the Intelligence Squared
debate (UK version), "The Internet is a Failed Dystopia", that was this week
Further, in a TNR article from July 2014, Paul Starr wrote about Brynjolfsson
and McAfee's recent work, of which they highlighted in the new Current
Affairs: [http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118327/second-machine-
age...](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118327/second-machine-age-reviewed-
paul-starr)
------
anigbrowl
Martin Wolf is always worth reading. Nice to se a longer form article than his
usual columns in the FT, which always leave me wanting more.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
IMAP Rant - nickb
http://sup.rubyforge.org/svn/trunk/lib/sup/imap.rb
======
simpleenigma
LOL ... He hit most of my points except for the insane complexity of the FETCH
and SEARCH commands. Each of these commands could be broken down into smaller
commands that could be implemented in a hour or two instead of one huge
command that takes weeks to perfect...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: Copying Y Combinator - If there's a right way, what is it? - jedc
I'm writing a master's dissertation on startup incubator programs: Ycombinator and the rising tide of YC clones that are cropping up all over the world. (TechStars, Seedcamp, etc.)<p>My goal is to provide a guide/framework that other people/regions/cities can use when starting their own Ycombinator-like program. In a nutshell, I want to show how (or if!) Ycombinator's "secret sauce" can be translated into other schemes. (More information at my blog post here: http://blog.jedchristiansen.com/2009/07/13/my-dissertation-ycombinator-its-spawn-how-to-do-it-right/ ) I plan on posting drafts and the final version of my dissertation for anyone to use (and criticize!) throughout the summer.<p>I think there are two interesting perspectives that have to meet in order for an incubator to be successful: what do the organizers/funders want as a result and what do the entrepreneurs want as a result?<p>What I'm hoping to get from the HN community is an answer to these questions:
* What are the reasons you would apply and accept funding from YCombinator?
* Are those reasons different for the other incubator-like programs and why?<p>If you'd like to discuss some of this privately, I can be contacted at jed [dot] christiansen [at] Gmail
======
oldgregg
A bunch of these group have popped up but everyone I know will only apply to
YC and TS... The other groups just don't have the credibility yet. I think
techstars has done alright because it slid in as #2 and it has really gotten
out front on the community side of things -- great job differentiating
themselves from YC.
I don't think it will work to copy anything, I'm always going to give 6% to
Paul Graham in the valley before I give 6% to Opie Taylor in Mayberry.
I think there might be an opening on the lower end of the market. Right now
these groups are making total investments in companies around 50k (after
program costs). That still requires a serious potential return to make a
profit. So while they will tell you otherwise, they will rarely invest in an
idea unless it has a very large potential market size. They will take 1%
chance at a billion dollar return over a 50% chance at a million dollar
return. Which leaves a decent number of smaller ideas on the table. The truth
is that a company providing great software to dentist's offices will probably
be ramen profitable before an idea like tipjoy -- but obviously the potential
returns are a lot lower.
Intellectual capital is also a big problem. If you are ambitious and talented
you have probably _already_ moved to a tech hub. That said...
I would buy a giant house and go Heaven's Gate style. Recruit local talent
that hates their demeaning code-monkey job and sell people on the vision. They
get free rent and a very small stipend. Dig up 10 people like this in a
secondary town and now you've got a little community going... Hackers in these
small towns are usually really hungry for people who "get it" so it's not
about the money. Snag really sharp kids right out of high school or college
and spend some time building into them in a really intense way. It's really
talent development in a lot of ways, but it could potentially be a great
funnel for getting people connected.
And just to soapbox for a second, post-industrial age-graded education is
dehumanizing and bureaucratic -- although it's been great for making mindless
factory workers. But it's not working anymore, so sooner or later we'll move
back toward an apprenticeship model where people learn in a holistic
relationship-driven context. That's what these seed stage funds are doing
right now -- and it seems to be working.
~~~
pegobry
Great points. I think the bigger point is that it's not so much the formula
(how long the program is, how much do you invest, is it a seed fund or an
incubator, etc.) as the people who are doing it.
I'd travel halway around the world for ten weeks with pg & a bunch of
brilliant YC geeks. There aren't many venues that have the same appeal.
------
pg
It depends what their goal is. Most of them seem initially to have the goal of
improving the startup scene in a particular region. But, as they then
discover, there's nothing regional about the seed funding business. Founders
come from all over, and leave afterwards for wherever they get more funding.
The way to help a region is to be the place where they get more funding. I
tried a thought experiment about that (<http://paulgraham.com/maybe.html>).
The problem is, it would cost a lot more.
~~~
YuriNiyazov
In that essay (and I think, in other places) you've mentioned Wufoo as being a
very unique and exceptional case - what, besides being based in Tampa, is so
unique about them? I've never met the founders, so this isn't meant as a
challenge, just curiousity.
~~~
pg
There are a couple things. One is how tight the founders are. Two of them are
brothers, and the third guy is almost a third brother. So they trust one
another totally.
The other distinctive thing about them is how committed they are. You can see
it in everything from the design of their site to their reputation for
customer service. They would be aghast at the thought of doing something in a
half-assed way.
------
wheels
I've said it before, but I don't understand why firms trying something YC-like
don't try to differentiate themselves more. The _accelerator for mobile_ , the
_accelerator for B2B / SaaS_ , etc. It would seem easier to differentiate
yourself from YC along industry rather than geographic lines (assuming you're
not crossing a national border).
~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
This is exactly what I thought when reading the OP's post.
A Y-Combinator clone that specialized in industrial hardware or medical
devices. Man, my brain would be in warp speed. I work for a medical device
manufacturer but for all my experience, would never think of doing a product
in this field because of the huge financial and regulatory hurdles. If yc-type
guidance were available, I'd be going over ever problem I know of in this
field to figure out if I could do a startup to solve it!
------
gruseom
One difference that deserves more attention is that YC comes out of hacker
culture while the clones don't; they've been started by people who have had
business success but are not hackers, who tend to look at YC as a business
model and not as the cultural experiment it also is. As I imagine it, the
founding insight behind YC isn't so much "let's make a bunch of seed-stage
investments" as "let's hack the economy". That, to me, is a fundamental
difference. It's also precisely the sort of thing that most non-hackers would
overlook.
Does this matter? My guess it is it matters a lot, because identifying good
hackers and advising them are two of the most important things that YC does.
These skills are not common. YC have them because they are hackers themselves.
This also lends a dog-whistle aspect to the whole endeavor. To anyone who's
part of the culture or has the mindset, PG's essays and various other things
about YC are instantly recognizable and act as a beacon. This feeling of
"they're one of us" is precisely what I miss in the clones.
With obvious exceptions, the economic fate of hackers has traditionally been
in the hands of people who are not like them and do not understand them. A
seed-stage micro-investment mentoring fund started by the one type is not
likely to work out the same as a similar-looking fund started by the other. If
this were gardening, good hackers might be weird-looking plants that are
commonly mistaken for weeds. An unskilled gardener is likely to make two
mistakes: either rooting them out (i.e. passing them over in favor of other,
perhaps more businessy-looking species) or applying the wrong fertilizer etc.
so they fail to thrive (i.e. not knowing how to work with them or help them
grow).
One thing that follows from what I'm saying comes close to a prediction: if
the essence of YC has more to do with a new investment model, then copies of
that investment model should follow a similar course. But if it has more to do
with amplifying the economic value of hackers, then you'd need to look for
copies of _that_ , and as far as I know there aren't any.
Incidentally, most hackers probably wouldn't be interested in starting a
clone. They'd want to find their own angle instead. I wonder whether Marc
Andreesen's new fund isn't closer to YC in spirit.
------
iamelgringo
It's an interesting question, and I'd love to see your dissertation after it's
done. Thanks for being willing to post drafts, etc...
It seems that a lot of cities/regions want to start tech incubators as a means
of boosting the local economy. A number of cities that I've lived in want to
start a "Silicon Prarie" or a "Silcon Forest" or a "Silicon FooBarBaz" in
their neck of the woods because successful tech businesses produce a lot of
good jobs and tax revenues. So, the city starts an incubator, promote their
new downtown as a tech hub, and hope for technology companies to spring up and
boost the local economy.
I believe that one of the reasons that Y Combinator succeeded was because it
wasn't about boosting tech companies in regions, it was about funding
startups. PG and Co. set out to hack the economy by seed funding crap loads of
startups. So, to that end, they started funding startups in the locations that
were best suited to that: Boston and SV. They then went on to localize
primarily in Silicon Valley because they thought it was the best move for
their startups. ( and they were sick of being bi-coastal )
The difference in those two motivations, is I believe a watershed between the
wins and the fails. YC has done what's best for their startups because that's
their primary goal. The vibe I get is that a lot of other incubators try to do
what's best for their region and are therefore conflicted.
~~~
jedc
Interesting, and I agree that more and more YC clones are coming from outside
the Valley. I guess the question is if the city/region has enough expertise to
make a clone successful. Perhaps if focused on a more vertical field it has a
better chance of success?
~~~
iamelgringo
I've lived in 6 cities in the US: Minneapolis, Chicago, Providece, Los
Angeles, Fresno and now SV. I've also spent significant time in Dallas, New
Orleans and Toledo.
For me the issue is culture.
Chicago, there is a high tech community, but it is generally focused on
helping the other industries in the area function. Chicago also tends to be
kind of a jock driven town, and tends to scares geeks underground IMHO.
Providence, because of RISD and Johnson and Wales tends to be an arts/food
driven town. Players from Brown don't tend to stay around long enough to
influence the culture too much. They're too busy figuring out how to get into
Harvard or Yale Grad school. There also tends to be a strong current of
complacency among the locals that makes it hard to innovate technologically.
The biggest tech firm in Rhode Island is GTech, a lotto machine maker.
LA is all about the movie and music industry (and a little bit about
aerospace). There are plenty of geeks in LA, but they all tend to serve the
larger interests of the movie, music and aerospace industries. A lot of geeks
I ran into would have been interested in developing their own VFX shop, but
you have to have a _lot_ of connections to make that happen. LA is also run by
pretty people. And, that makes it harder on geeks, IMHO. It made it hard for
me, and I moved after a year and a half.
Fresno is all about farming, it's really hot, and I'm shocked I lasted a year.
That's all I'll say.
SV on the other hand is steeped in technology and startups. My day job is as a
ER nurse, and in the first year of being here, 3 people at the hospital
offered to connect me with investors. I started the hackers and founders
meetup ( www.hackersandfounders.com) a year ago, and now there's 350 people on
my mailing list, and we have 20-25 people show up every 2 weeks to talk tech
and startups. It's just in the air here.
I think that SV offers a much better ecosystem for startups than the other
towns I've lived in my several orders of magnitude. There's already water,
carbon, and oxygen. Silicon Valley's orbit is in the green belt of the startup
sun.
Trying to do the same thing as YC in a different area of the country would
require a lot of terraforming to be able to support a startup ecosystem. It's
possible, but like colonizing Mars, it's going to be a lot more expensive to
support an ecosystem there than on earth.
If I were going to recommend starting a technology company in another area,
I'd definitely look at the strong industries in that area. If I were starting
a YC clone in Detroit, I'd fund manufacturing technology startups, and perhaps
robotics companies. If it was Dallas/Houston, I'd fund petroleum tech or
energy startups. If it was San Diego probably biotech. LA, I'd focus on more
media oriented startups. Fresno, or the rural midwest, farming automation
technology.
Startups outside of Silicon Valley could have a competitive advantage if they
can focus on building technology that supports the local industry. That way
the networking that naturally happens can strengthen their business. I talk
with a lot of hackers here that are interested in building tools for specific
businesses or industries, but they have problems meeting people that work in
those industries and aren't geeks. A seed fund could take advantage of that.
------
wmeredith
As a complete outsider I can tell you that, in my mind, the _only_ thing
separating Y-Combinator from the others you mentioned are Hackernews and PG's
essays. Both of which are of such excellent quality that I would apply here
before anywhere else. That's it, I don't know anything else about the people
behind the program.
~~~
paulsb
I would agree with you but recently I have really started to like the
TechStars program. Why? Because of the impression given to me from their
recent videos about the start-ups and the program that have appeared this
time. The videos show how the program works, the openness, the mentoring, the
city (Boulder not Boston), the community/spirit there, what the founders are
like. When TechStars first started, I was thinking 'they have no chance, YC is
the only place to be'; but now, I really respect what they have going on
there, and wouldn't mind going there.
YC seems a bit more closed. Outsiders can't gage what it is really like except
from a few vids here and there and the comments on HackerNews. Plus, with the
increased popularity of HackerNews, it is quite difficult to track the
comments from YC company founders. Of course, when someone gets in then they
probably don't care any more, but it's always nice to be open and show people
what you're all about. The same goes for all the other programs.
The point: if you're starting a new program, especially in a traditionally
non-tech area, it is best to be open and show what the program (including
location) is all about. It's just good marketing.
------
rms
In Pennsylvania, the "Y Combinator clones" AlphaLab and DreamIt Ventures are
funded by the state of Pennsylvania (and a DreamIt partner is running for
Congress!). AlphaLab is an overt incubator run by a larger early stage
investment group and DreamIt is more of a direct YC Clone. The goal of the
money they are given is to create jobs. Their motivations get more complicated
when the taxpayers are footing the bill.
Probably the most common flaw in cloning Y Combinator is to make an incubator
investing in micro seed magnitudes. Y Combinator is not an incubator; it's a
micro seed stage fund. <http://seedfunding.weebly.com/>
~~~
jedc
I didn't realize AlphaLab and DreamIt are funded by the state. But as part of
my project I hope to recognize the different types of funding sources & people
that are starting YC clones. I've even heard about companies that are looking
at running small programs like this. I agree that the motivations are
complicated, and that's what I want to explore.
Interesting note about the funding. I was talking to a VC about this and while
he wanted to support a similar type of program locally, he was very hesitant.
Mainly because if he chose not to follow-on with funding, he would likely be
killing the startup before it even really got going.
~~~
rms
> Mainly because if he chose not to follow-on with funding, he would likely be
> killing the startup before it even really got going.
Good point. I'm pretty sure pg said someone similar on this site at some
point.
~~~
jacquesm
That's true, but the chances of finding follow up funding are larger anyway if
you already have a seed fund backing you.
The one things most VC's are scared of is being first (and the other thing is
having missed an opportunity). It's a fine line between those two...
------
dejan
Good idea. It would be great to see a lot of incubators popping up, as it can
have a significant impact on the overall economy.
It is not the funding that is the main reason for applying. Although some
small amount of money is great to cover living costs so that you can devote
full time to your project, it can be handled differently. What I think most of
the people here are interested in is the post funding period - getting big
investments and connections through those that already did the talk and walked
the walk. Note that I am not referring to YC only, but also to all those that
YC helped or involved. There is a lot to learn from such condensed
entrepreneurial community.
However, don't idolize YC. They are not best. They are not even the first ones
to do so. They are just best known and publicized.
I would highly recommend doing a criticizing and constructive thesis. That is
- seeing the shortcomings of YC and suggestions on how to do it better. Your
question to HN should be how to do it better?
Such thesis is benefiting to all then, YC and other that are copying the
model, but most of all - us :)
~~~
jedc
My instinct is that I agree. But YC seems to be the top-tier choice for
companies applying to the whole group of incubator-type programs. Is that
because YC is seen as a better/bigger step toward connections and further
investment?
~~~
rms
It's not just that YC is seen as better; by the numbers alone they offer the
best outcomes of any of the micro incubators/micro seed stage funds.
~~~
jedc
I would love to be able to verify that, though I agree it looks to be true. My
dream would to get a fairly comprehensive list of startups to come from _all_
of the different programs, and see which of those are a) still in business, b)
received follow-on funding, and c) exited.
I know PG has these stats for YC, I'm just curious if he would share.
~~~
pclark
those stats wouldn't be hard to acquire. There are various lists of all the YC
winners. Love to see a comparison of YC vs Seedcamp.
~~~
jedc
I'm hoping to compile them; I just know that PG keeps _accurate_ records. :)
------
Anon84
The right way is to _not_ copy it. Learn from it, see what worked and what
didn't and adapt it to your specific goals.
~~~
jedc
Exactly. I'm hoping to write a generalized framework to help guide others in
what's important and what's not, and _how_ to adapt it to specific goals!
------
lyime
I love incubation. YCombinator and others FTW. Although you need to understand
that there really isn't a secret sauce. Just like there is opinionated
software/frameworks (rails) there is opinionated venture capital.
Ycombinator funds companies based on certain principles. Paul Graham and co.
pick ideas based on what they see fit. They have built relationships with
successful entrepreneurs,VCs, angels and other outfits based on their
judgement which has lead to their some success. They do things a certain way
and you/others should not try to copy them.
I think you can definitely try to tell their story and motivate others. You
are not going to be able to make other people create or build another
Ycombinator.
------
bayareaguy
Too bad y2combinator[1] is no longer around. I'm sure they could help you :-)
1-
[http://web.archive.org/web/20070705045529/http://y2combinato...](http://web.archive.org/web/20070705045529/http://y2combinator.com/index.html)
------
csomar
* What are the reasons you would apply and accept funding from YCombinator? *
If I applied that's because of
\- Place: I live in north-africa, so US would be better for business.
\- Support: I can't handle tax/company issues and papers myself, if i hire a
lawyer, it'll cost a lot.
\- Promotion: More odds that I'll get better investors.
------
alanthonyc
I'm working on a project right now. The amount of money that YC would invest
in my project would be helpful, but not game changing at all (since I have
savings).
The only reason I would consider applying is to have access to the resources
and experience that PG would be able to share via his contacts and other YC
alums.
------
lrgco
This question is probably as hard and as interesting as "what makes
entrepreneurs entrepreneurial"
Cant wait to see your results!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
After 50+ Years of Service, It’s Time to Retire the Cubicle - StackBundles
http://observer.com/2018/02/after-50-years-of-service-its-time-to-retire-the-cubicle/
======
LinuxBender
I despise open work-spaces. It is distracting. Between slack and open work-
spaces, my productivity is significantly lower. This has not changed in a long
time. I've read decades of advice on improving this and reject all of it. It
just doesn't work with my personality type.
I would prefer temperature controlled sound proof pods, with a small couch
that folds out into a bed and my own variable level LED mood lighting. It
should have an exterior LED do-not-disturb sign.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
After 5 years and $3M, here's everything we've learned from building Ghost - GvS
https://blog.ghost.org/5/
======
johnonolan
Good morning HN! John from Ghost here - Thanks for all your support over the
last 5 years. We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that very first blog post
hitting the #1 spot of HN and getting so much attention back in 2012. That was
the very first time anyone ever heard about Ghost, and everything we've built
since then has been thanks to that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Curriculum ideas for teaching programming to middle school kids - jasonkillian
Hey HN! I have plans to teach a 10-week, one-hour-a-week course to a group of kids in the 10-16 age range. These kids come from a poorer urban background and likely have no exposure to programming at all. I have some ideas for course content (discussed below), but I've never done anything like this before, so I have no idea if they're good ideas or not. I'd love to hear the thoughts of you all on what would work well, and I'd especially love to hear the stories of what worked well people who have done similar things before.<p>None of my plans are set in stone yet, but my general plan is to make the course as interactive and fun as possible. There was a thread recently[0] discussing Robotopia, which I like the premise behind. I'm not sure if it's quite polished enough yet to be used. I'm heavily considering using either the offline or online version of Scratch[1] but don't know quite what direction I'd go with it. I also saw there are minecraft related programming lessons[2] which sounds really neat, but I haven't looked at this in depth yet.<p>Anyway, I could list more tools out there, but most importantly, hearing what has and hasn't worked well when working with kids would be great!<p>[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14043519<p>[1]: https://scratch.mit.edu/<p>[2]: https://code.org/minecraft
======
osullivj
Teach them Python by building a game in PyGame?
~~~
siege_conform
Yeah Python is great for beginners I think. List of introductory books:
[https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntroductoryBooks](https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntroductoryBooks)
Some written specifically for children. Don't know much about them, but
they're worth looking into.
[https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/python-
proj...](https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/python-projects-
kids)
[https://www.nostarch.com/pythonforkids](https://www.nostarch.com/pythonforkids)
[https://www.manning.com/books/hello-
world](https://www.manning.com/books/hello-world)
[https://www.nostarch.com/teachkids](https://www.nostarch.com/teachkids)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wearality SKY: Limitless Virtual Reality on Kickstarter - jessmartin
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wearality/wearality-sky-limitless-vr
======
jessmartin
I'm not affiliated with Wearality, beyond being friends with one of the
founders. I've gotten to use demo units over the past year as they've iterated
on designs. It's an amazing little device! The huge FOV and the light-weight
design make a huge difference.
Also, something that was really surprising, given the "ridged" appearance of
the lenses, was the image was crystal clear.
This will definitely be a game changer.
I saw that Joi Ito invested as well:
[https://twitter.com/Joi/status/585077510196613121](https://twitter.com/Joi/status/585077510196613121)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
This Website did cost 4.390.000 EUR - franze
http://www.lebensministerium.at/
======
SnaKeZ
This site did cost 45.000.000 EUR (+ 8.000.000 EUR for restyling)
<http://www.italia.it>
~~~
cico71
At least it doesn't have a logo with lens flares....
------
fichtl
it's a news topic in austria ...
[https://www.google.at/search?hl=de&gl=at&tbm=nws&...](https://www.google.at/search?hl=de&gl=at&tbm=nws&q=berlakovich%20homepage)
------
ijly
how do you know?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Public Cloud Security Survey - sweis
http://saweis.net/cloud-survey.html
======
sweis
Hi. I'm doing some research into security practices on public cloud
infrastructures (e.g. AWS, Linode, Heroku). Specifically, I'm interested if
and how people deploy credentials and handle sensitive data.
Please take a minute to fill it out if you use public cloud services. I will
post the results to HN. Thanks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why subscriptions are the future of journalism - bitslim
https://medium.com/thoughts-on-media/selling-ads-is-a-short-term-strategy-here-s-why-subscriptions-are-the-future-of-journalism-6721226d52ca#.g1o3c99ud
======
tyingq
For me, subscriptions wouldn't be great. There aren't many sources where I
appreciate a wide enough range of their stuff that I would want the "buffet"
model of paying for access to everything they have.
As an example, I really like vice.com's reporting and perspectives on Syria,
ISIS, etc. However, I'm not a fan of their reporting on other topics, like gun
violence, environmental issues, etc.
I would be much more excited about micropayments where I pay only for what I
care about. In the same way that I like "on demand movies" over say, a
subscription to HBO.
~~~
jerf
Micropayments are locally good for you, but might have a global effect of
making news providers chase just the things that people will provide the
micropayments for, creating another variant on the "Buzzfeed" problem, just
with a different focus.
Although, to be honest, I'm not sure how to fix that problem. Trying to create
a system that provides news people need instead of news people want is a
fundamentally hard problem when those two things don't overlap.
~~~
commentzorro
For me the solution is a Netflix like. (Newsflicks?) You subscribe to
Newsflicks and can then access all the articles from journalism sites that
partner with Newsflicks.
~~~
mercer
Blendle does this, and is now expanding to Germany. They seem to be doing
pretty well. [http://www.blendle.com](http://www.blendle.com).
~~~
kristineberth
PressReader does this at a much bigger scale than Blendle. It's truly Netflix-
for-newspapers-and-magazines. 5,000+ titles, full versions, current day, all-
you-can-read model. It's paid for either by personal subscriptions
($30USD/month) or sponsored access is provided by businesses (airlines like
Qantas and Virgin Australia, thousands of major hotels around the world,
20,000+ libraries, a partnership with Uber in France for the Cannes Film
Festival, etc.) Users can download full titles onto their own device and save
them for later reading too.
Full disclosure, I work at PressReader. But it surprises me sometimes when
we're not mentioned in these conversations. We do huge business
internationally, have millions of active users, have been profitable for
years, and are growing at an absolutely insane rate. It's a win-win business
model because readers get content (often for free since it's sponsored by a
brand they're a customer of), publishers make money (we pay royalties when
their content is read), and brands have the opportunity to offer something
tangible and personalized to their customers.
~~~
commentzorro
I can only read content for 14 days after publication then it can be accessed?
I have to pay by the publication in addition to pay by the month? No, this
seems like a horrible service for a home consumer. Someone references an
article from WaPo or NYT from six months ago and my expensive subscription
service can't even reach it?!
~~~
kristineberth
You can read up to 90 days of back issues, full-version. If you have a
subscription ($30USD/month) it's all-you-can-read unlimited access to
everything. If you'd like to purchase a single issue instead of subscribing,
you can, but the subscription model gives you full access.
Better yet, visit the PressReader HotSpot Map and you'll see all the places
you can get full access to PressReader for free. You just have to access it
while you're connected to their WiFi:
[http://www.pressreader.com/hotspot/map](http://www.pressreader.com/hotspot/map)
------
CM30
I like the idea of subscriptions, and I do think they have more of a chance
than advertising as far as being a sustainable way to make money for ads goes,
but they won't be the future of journalism as a whole.
Why? Because to a certain degree, the majority of standard journalism simply
isn't commercially viable. I mean, look at the kind of articles most news
sites run. Just plain old news, few if any opinions, only valuable because
it's a somewhat quick way of finding out what's going on.
How are subscriptions going to work for that? Why would anyone pay for plain
old news when social media sites and aggregators (like Hacker News and Reddit)
give you the same information for nothing? If you purely want to know what the
latest Apple product is, when a new game will be released, what two
celebrities got married or who won the football game, then why pay for an
article about it? It's already all over the internet for nothing, thanks to
people willing to post about that stuff for free.
This subscription thing only works for fields where news is difficult to
report (say, from a war zone) or where the author's opinion/insight itself is
valuable (read, not entertainment/gaming journalism). Unfortunately, this
makes up a far lower percentage of journalism than some people like to
believe.
~~~
mercer
Edit: while I could remove this comment in 'shame' over posting it before
reading the article (written by the cofounder of, uh, The Correspondent), I'll
just leave it up...
I agree that low-quality journalism will have difficulty applying the
subscription model, but personally I won't mourn their disappearance. I
stopped actively reading most main-stream newspapers a long time ago.
The Correspondent, on the other hand, a Dutch online newspaper, is doing
pretty well with subscriptions. Their approach (and tagline/motto) is to go
'beyond the whims/delusion of the day' by only publishing a few good articles
a day, instead of the deluge of articles, often rewritten Reuters/AP items
giving you piecemeal, context-less updates on different issues.
Their approach is about having a number of correspondents, each in charge of a
theme that the staff considers important, or that the readers have suggested
([https://decorrespondent.nl/correspondenten](https://decorrespondent.nl/correspondenten)
for a list, google translate should give you an impression of the various
themes). Quite often pieces by guest writers are published too, but usually
still under one of these themes.
Quite often they'll publish a series of articles, diving into one topic, or
write an article as a response to reader feedback (one example being the
Operation Easy Chair, which they also published in English and as an eBook:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10789987](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10789987)).
So far they seem to be doing pretty well, which is amazing considering that
it's (almost) entirely in Dutch, and entirely reader-supported. I think
they're working on an English version as well.
One could argue that it only works because their audience mostly consists of
educated readers with a decent income, but I'd argue that 'non-educated'
readers would often be better of with little to no news instead of the crap
they're presented with through the low-quality papers. And if demand for such
news is large enough, people will end up willing to pay for it when it's gone.
Finally, there's acceptable news coverage provided on public broadcast as
well.
This will suck for many journalists, but I wouldn't be surprised if the decent
ones will be happy with whatever alternatives pop up. Most decent journalists
I know are miserable at the papers they work for, for various reasons. The
Wire's last season, while perhaps a bit too slanted against mainstream
newspapers, does a pretty decent job outlining many of the problems.
------
iss
I believe that ads are killing journalism. The focus is not on creating good
content, but mainly create content that will be clickable and sharable.
Unfortunately, in our world, there is no direct correlation between good and
sharable content. I'm definitely willing to subscribe to media outlets focused
on informing and providing great content to their readers or do some
micropayments, basically pay for the content I read and care about.
------
apple314159
One problem with subscriptions is privacy. One could argue that currently it
is difficult with all the ad tracking but its possible. With subscriptions,
state agencies will have an easier time knowing your preferences just by
following the money.
~~~
rojoca
You can always use a VPN, register with a dummy email account, and pay with a
prepaid credit card if you're concerned about such things. Alternatively,
subscribe to everything so your preferences disappear.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
S-tui: Stress Terminal UI - yankcrime
https://amanusk.github.io/s-tui/
======
anc84
This will make a nice partner to glances' current-state centric display:
[https://nicolargo.github.io/glances/](https://nicolargo.github.io/glances/)
------
voltagex_
I wonder what impact this monitor has on power usage itself.
~~~
benatkin
The author thought of it - it says "Requires minimal resources" in the README.
------
sleepychu
Very nice, will be giving it a spin!
Would be nice to have network utilisation in there as well :-).
------
westmeal
Neat monitor, it looks extremely pretty.
~~~
PinkMilkshake
That is definitely one of the nicest looking terminal apps I’ve seen. I wonder
how far terminal app visual design can be pushed.
~~~
Steltek
Well, as you increase your terminal's rows/columns, each character starts to
approximate a pixel. The included screenshot is around 50 rows (double the
"normal" ~80x24). Emoji and Unicode can probably stretch this further.
I'd love to see more quality terminal apps come out. I feel like the software
(excepting, of course, the browser) I use is perfectly bifurcated into
"terminal" and "webapp" domains. I just don't see to have much use for
traditional GUIs anymore and even prefer locally hosted webapps to them.
------
dancek
Just a note: this works on macOS, but isn't very useful. It only shows cpu
base frequency and cpu activity, at least without sudo.
------
I_complete_me
It is featured in this month's Linux User magazine which I happened to buy
(for a change). Downloaded with pip. Nice app.
------
anc84
Does someone know a similar tool to monitor CPU, RAM and IO utilisation?
~~~
Arkanosis
In htop 2 and higher [1], you can enable graph history mode by pressing the
space bar twice to change meter style on the relevant meter in the setup (F2).
It works for CPU, RAM, load, swap…
gtop [2] does that too for CPU, RAM and network
[1] [https://github.com/hishamhm/htop](https://github.com/hishamhm/htop) [2]
[https://github.com/aksakalli/gtop](https://github.com/aksakalli/gtop)
~~~
Born_Again
Wow, I had no clue about the space bar shortcut in htop. Thanks!
------
Jemm
Might be a great app but the hyphen in the app name is a terrible idea,
especially for an app called from the terminal.
~~~
rane
Why?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Interesting talks from Hot Chips 2018 - JoachimS
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333649&print=yes
======
snaky
> Flexibility, not frequency, is the new mantra
> Compared to its current 16nm FPGAs, the so-called Adaptive Compute
> Acceleration Platform (ACAP) will deliver 20x and 4x performance increases
> on deep learning and 5G radio processing, respectively, Xilinx claimed. The
> first chip, called Everest, will tape out this year in a 7nm process.
> The centerpiece of the new architecture is word-based array of tiles made up
> of VLIW vector processors, each with local memory and interconnect.
> tiles communicate with each other to create data paths that best suit their
> application.
[https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333632](https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333632)
So GA144 is going to mainstream finally.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Firefox on Mobile: Browser or App? - e15ctr0n
http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2016/01/firefox-on-mobile-browser-or-app/
======
AndrewMBliss
Anyone remember the Firefox OS? It is also quite ambiguous to the consumers.
It is needed to define it clearly. Not all consumers are tech experts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How long do you keep your emails? - stamps
I've been toying with the idea of deleting emails after x number of months/years.<p>Currently I have 11 years of emails that I can't say I ever reference.
======
twobyfour
Pretty much forever.
Somewhere along the line my 1993-2002 archives went missing, but I still have
everything since then. On average, I'd guess that it's about once a year that
I need to access something more than a year old (and yeah, sometimes it's
something from 2003).
Why do you ask?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
India bans Facebook’s ‘free’ Internet for the poor - ghostDancer
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/indian-telecom-regulator-bans-facebooks-free-internet-for-the-poor/2016/02/08/561fc6a7-e87d-429d-ab62-7cdec43f60ae_story.html
======
herbst
Thats awesome. I was afraid most countries are going to fall for it, but no.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Brainf****d - wglb
http://languageagnostic.blogspot.com/2009/05/brainfd.html
======
klez
My extended implementation :-)
<https://github.com/federicoculloca/m4bf>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Germany’s Googlephobia - julianpye
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21615588-why-online-giant-has-become-countrys-bogeyman-and-why-matters-closing-circle
======
julianpye
As the article mentions this is about business interests and is largely driven
by the old media with plenty of daily horror stories about Google, while the
company has a massive market share.
For me the whole issue has become a problem lately, since my startup uses App-
engine-J and I have lost two corporate clients because of this since their new
IT guidelines insist on all data having to be stored on German soil. Added to
this is the perception that any Google services, including Apps for Business
and Cloud Storage are scanned by Google.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Culture-First Companies - dmonn
https://dmonn.ch/culture-first-companies/
======
towaway1138
Maybe. Personally, I loathe work environments where you're required to signal
various forms of the varies "virtues" that the majority holds as important.
I do my job, well. No one at work can tell what my politics and various tribes
are, and there's no reason for them to know. Likewise, I don't care about
anyone else's particulars either. That's what professionalism is.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rough Day at Work? Call of Duty Can Help You Recover - station909
http://www.livescience.com/46355-rough-day-at-work-call-of-duty-can-help-you-recover.html
======
station909
Seems interesting to try. I'm used to watch TV shows in order to disconnect.
Working out sounds like a good idea but I'm a little bit lazy. So I might try
this advice. What games can you suggest for someone who used to play Doom and
Need For Speed about 10 years ago? I need something not complex.
~~~
esbranson
Play them all until you find something you like.
~~~
station909
I played COD a little bit, modern games are just too hard. I need something
fun and relaxing.
------
jgeorge
For a while my way to unwind after a rough day at work was to fire up GTA4,
turn off the cell phone (to pause the story mode) and just drive around like a
lunatic and blow stuff up. It's actually surprising just quite how effective
this technique works to unwind.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Good hacker backpack? - jason_slack
What I mean is laptop, chargers, portable wifi, tablet, maybe a few books, snacks. Going on an extended trip and want to ensure I have room, but a good layout inside the bag.
======
jenkstom
5.11 tactical RUSH12.
[http://www.511tactical.com/rush-12-backpack.html](http://www.511tactical.com/rush-12-backpack.html)
If you organize the inside using MOLLE-capable bags, then you can quickly and
easily expand your storage by just attaching those bags to the outside.
But it's "tacticool", so it's not for everybody. My Dell XPS 13 and a whole
lot of other things fit into it easily. Plus there is a hard plate on the back
that protects the computer from impact from that side of the bag and gives it
support (it's removable).
~~~
burntrelish1273
Nice. I have a bugout bag that's currently a Trager (defunct) day pack that I
used in high-school umpteen years ago: have hauled 8 huge textbooks for months
on end (we didn't have lockers because of pipebombs in the 1970's), car
battery and other things that destroyed every other backpack.
Plus, I seem to be accumulating a number of MOLLE things from trauma kit to
Leatherman to pepper spray.
Currently, my laptop messenger bag is from another defunct company, Hlaska,
which is currently overloaded with a MBP 13 and minimal power/EDC stuff.
I should probably upgrade to a MOLLE bag so I can carry my backup HDD without
using a reusable shopping bag AND messenger bag.
------
evolve2k
Australian Made Crumpler Backpacks are awesome. They come with a lifetime
guarantee because they literally stitch them from canvas. Strong bags with
great design that really last.
[https://www.crumpler.com/au/dry-red-no-5/](https://www.crumpler.com/au/dry-
red-no-5/)
[https://www.crumpler.com/au/about-us/](https://www.crumpler.com/au/about-us/)
> The first Crumpler bag was made in the early 90s when Stuart Crumpler
> couldn’t find a bag that let him cycle home with a slab of beer on his back.
Stu’s solution to this common problem was a tough, handmade messenger bag – he
sourced the best materials he could find and even sought the expertise of a
local parachute maker who pulled the prototype apart and showed him stronger
methods of stitching.
During this time, Will Miller and Dave Roper ran a courier business and needed
quality bags for their riders. Seeing the potential in Stu’s bags, the three
of them founded Crumpler with a handshake and the rest is history.
~~~
cgm616
These look really nice and I want to get one, but shipping to the US is $40.
:/
~~~
evolve2k
Looks like as of 2017 they now fulfil to US via Amazon :)
[https://www.marketplacepulse.com/amazon/usa/crumpler](https://www.marketplacepulse.com/amazon/usa/crumpler)
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0118QTUKU?psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0118QTUKU?psc=1)
------
saluki
There are lots of great backpacks in this thread.
I ran across this backpack at wal-mart, it's a great travel pack/day pack. It
has a sleeve in the back (padded to the outside) for a laptop or camelbak,
lots of pockets/sleeves inside that would fit chargers, phones, small tablet.
Loops on outside are great for carabiners/gear on a hike.
[https://www.walmart.com/ip/Outdoor-Products-Quest-
Daypack/51...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Outdoor-Products-Quest-
Daypack/51036937)
We have three, one was just used for a 6 night campout and came back in
perfect condition.
Oh and best of all they are only $25.
------
sithadmin
I'm a heavy (2-4 flights/week) traveller, and love my North Face 'Router
Transit' backpack: [https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/equipment-backpacks-
mens-b...](https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/equipment-backpacks-mens-
backpacks/router-transit-backpack-nf0a2zco?variationId=LMG)
I usually lug around 2 laptops, a huge USB battery pack, misc. USB
accoutrements, snacks, Bose over-the-ear headphones, and occasionally a (slim
model) game system in it without it being too overpacked or bulky.
~~~
revicon
Wow, what do you do that requires 4 flights per week?
------
timw0j
I bought one of these [https://www.ospreypacks.com/us/en/product/comet-new-
for-fall...](https://www.ospreypacks.com/us/en/product/comet-new-for-
fall-2016-COMETNEW_793.html) a couple years ago as a convention backpack after
being disappointed carrying my TB2 messenger bag. It has a padded slot in the
back for a laptop plus an internal pocket in that slot where you could slide a
tablet easily. Separate from the laptop slot, it also has one large and one
small pocket, with some smaller internal pockets in the small one. The straps
are comfortable enough to wear for multiple full days, assuming breaks here
and there and I've never been wanting for space inside of it.
------
villson
I go through a lot of bags trying to find the perfect one. Quite literally one
every 3-4 months for the last 4 years.
Finally bought the 30l Peak Design backpack. Best thing ever. Worth every
penny.
I can fit: Two laptops - HP 1040 and Lenovo Thinkpad S12 Two chargers for the
laptops 1x 2 port USB charger for phone 8" Tablet 2 Moleskine notebooks 1
camera, either Sigma Dp1 Quattro or Sony RX100 2.5 USB backup drive Several
batteries for the Sigma camera Audiotechnica m30 headphones All the infernal
RSA tokens I have to carry USB cables, 2 ethernet cables 10000 mAh battery
pack Other odds and ends... mug, access cards and what not
~~~
jason_slack
it seems most people use this as a camera bag. I can't seem to tell if it is
open in the middle or if there is some sort of camera padding setup.
Also, you mention a lot of gear fits. Do you have this gear just tossed in
there or are there enough compartments for the list you mention?
~~~
villson
The peak design bags have dividers they refer to as origami dividers. The
majority of the volume of the bag can be customized using the dividers.
The is a laptop sleeve between the back of the bag and the main compartment.
In that sleeve there is a divider. I believe the divider is meant to separate
a 15" mac book and full sized ipad. The sleeve is large enough for my 14"
laptop and my 12" laptop. Additionally, the sections you use to get in to the
main compartment have padded organizers.
The bag is really clever and seems to be incredibly well built, time will tell
on that.
Check out the youtube videos.
------
camgunz
I bought a DSPTCH Daypack a couple years ago and it's pretty amazing. I don't
know if you'd get a good layout inside the pack (there's a couple pouches, a
small zipped pouch at the top, and a couple bottle pouches on the side inside
the main compartment, but that's all. That aside, it's only a couple pounds,
super tough and comfortable, and not gaudy. The laptop pouch fits a new 13"
MBP _AND_ a ThinkPad x220, but it expands well so things don't just rattle
around in there.
------
DrScump
Another backpack recommendation thread, from last year:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13369197](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13369197)
------
KiDD
I love my Pelican S100 Backpack! Has a watertight crushproof Pelican hardcase
to protect my MacBook Pro and a decent sized pockets to carry iPad Pro,
Headphones, Dongles, etc...
[http://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/durable-travel-
backpack...](http://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/durable-travel-
backpacks/sport/sport-elite/S100/)
------
kingnothing
I love my Timbuk2 Spire.
[http://www.timbuk2.com/laptop-backpacks](http://www.timbuk2.com/laptop-
backpacks)
~~~
jason_slack
I was looking at this. Do you know the differences between the Spire and the
Rogue?
Edit: Amazon to the rescue. They had a comparison chart. The Spire is 32L,
Rogue is 27L
------
decafb
I love waterproof messenger bags as [ortlieb]([https://ortliebusa.com/product-
category/ortlieb/messenger-ba...](https://ortliebusa.com/product-
category/ortlieb/messenger-bags/)) offers. Perfectly waterproof and sturdy
material. A bit pricey though. They also have some more traditional looking
bags.
------
soulnothing
I've had my timbuk2 messenger for about 9 years now. The inside looks like it
got mauled. Lots of tears. But it still holds up rather well. The strap and
everything else is very comfortable.
I use it to get groceries once a week. It's come on every vacation I've gone
on. I've moved with it. It is not a simple work backpack. It goes with me
everywhere. Really great investment.
~~~
mdouglass
Second that, I've had the timbuk2 commute 2.0 messenger bag since 2010 and it
goes everywhere with me. Daily to/from work, every business/personal trip,
etc. Mine's still in excellent condition other than one broken zipper on one
of the inner pockets.
------
jamestomasino
I love the Minaal 2.0. [https://www.minaal.com/products/minaal-carry-on-
bag](https://www.minaal.com/products/minaal-carry-on-bag)
It's got a ton of storage and it's designed to be a single-travel bag. Check
out some reviews on Youtube and you'll see what I mean.
~~~
jason_slack
Wow, I like this one too.
------
Overtonwindow
My problem is strength of the bag. Once I put all of my gear into a bag, if I
start adding documents or manuals, the bag begins to break down. The strap
becomes worn, and the point of failure of where the strap connects to the top
of the bag, usually goes first. I wish these bags had a weight rating.
~~~
lowry
Try Everiki Versa.
------
pkinsky
TAD EDC. It's extremely overbuilt but between the integrated dry bag laptop
sleeve and the MOLLE attachment points it's worth it.
[http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/FAST-Pack-
EDC](http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/FAST-Pack-EDC)
------
carsongross
It's a goofy name, but I really like the three-zipper configuration of the
Mystery Ranch Urban Assault:
[http://www.mysteryranch.com/urban-assault-
pack](http://www.mysteryranch.com/urban-assault-pack)
Makes it really easy to get down into the pack.
------
choiway
Mission Workshop Arkiv Modular system. I've been using the R6 for three years
and it's still like new.
[https://missionworkshop.com/products/arkiv-bag-
series](https://missionworkshop.com/products/arkiv-bag-series)
------
disfadbish
BrainBag from Tom Bihn, tombihn.com
~~~
bdcravens
Have one, and while spacious, I've never felt well organized with it.
These days I'm carrying an eBags Professional - laptop space, center tablet
pocket that can be accessed from top, pocket for files/papers, bottom hard
compartment for charger, reasonably well organized pockets for pens, usb
drives, etc, and most importantly for travel, it has dual carry-on handle pass
throughs.
~~~
bitmage
The Brain Bag by itself is not well organized, but add a Brain Cell to hold
the laptop, a Snake Charmer for cables, and a Freudian Slip for papers and
you're getting somewhere. You're also getting spendy, so there is that. But
the bags last forever and show great attention to detail in their
construction. (Another risk is that you'll soon find yourself buying a Bihn
travel bag, briefcase, etc...)
~~~
bdcravens
I have the Brain Cell.
------
citruspi
I got a 21L GR1[1] a month or so ago to replace a messenger bag and I really
like it so far. It seems pretty well built with solid material.
[1]: [https://www.goruck.com/gr1/](https://www.goruck.com/gr1/)
~~~
jason_slack
Impressive!!
------
aaronarduino
I've really enjoyed this backpack from Amazon
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N7HOVXE](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N7HOVXE)
------
revicon
I carry my GoRuck GR2 everywhere I go, it's the most versatile backpack I've
ever owned.
[https://www.goruck.com/gr2/](https://www.goruck.com/gr2/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Is it useful to have a college degree? - lkrubner
http://www.smashcompany.com/business/is-it-useful-to-have-a-college-degree
======
maxharris
no
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
State of Rust 0.11.0 - cmrx64
http://blog.octayn.net/blog/2014/07/15/state-of-rust-0.11.0/
======
rdtsc
That is very exciting. I like the direction the project is going.
But, one thing worries me -- performance. Anyone know a list or tracker of
benchmarks to see how it roughly compares.
Or is it too ealry too talk about it? Am I pointing to the elephant in the
room? I am ok with saying "we are not there to talk about it, stop stirring
the pot". I understand that.
But looking at the future, if Rust is to compete with C++, it needs to perform
close to it. Not necessarily in the "safer"/default mode, but it needs to have
an unsafe, turn-off-all-checks-run as fast as you can mode.
C++11/C++14 improved C++ many enjoy and like using it. Many that don't are
probably using it for performance reasons. That is a niche Rust will have to
compete in.
~~~
cmrx64
Rust's performance is competitive with clang and improving, even in the
"safer" mode. We have benchmarks in many of the libraries (search for
#[bench]) and some in src/test/bench. We're on the benchmarking game, but that
is really just a game, not indicative of anything besides how much time
someone has spent microoptimizing a specific program. Someone is working on a
custom LLVM pass that will remove essentially every null check that Rust adds.
On top of that, there are still a few more changes on the way that aren't
easy, but should give a nice perf improvement.
~~~
sanxiyn
Here is a link to the source code of the initial version of the custom LLVM
pass to eliminate null checks. Hopefully this will be upstreamed to LLVM in
the future.
[https://github.com/rust-lang/llvm/blob/rust-
llvm-2014-06-28/...](https://github.com/rust-lang/llvm/blob/rust-
llvm-2014-06-28/lib/Transforms/Scalar/NullCheckElimination.cpp)
~~~
legulere
There's a small typo in there: argumetns -> arguments
------
jblow
I want a language I would enjoy programming in. Rust seems to have a lot of
what I want (GC not mandatory, perf, etc, etc) BUT private-by-default is a
terrible idea. I started writing a Rust program and I was just typing pub pub
pub all over the place. Ugly. That plus the excessive markup the language
requires for safety are enough to put me off it.
Video game programmers desperately need a new language to replace C++, but I
think this is not it, because the amount of friction added for safety reasons
feels very high.
I'll keep an eye on the language as it evolves, though.
~~~
kasey_junk
I think your response is on point because Rust also seems to be a lot of what
I want (GC not mandatory, perf, etc, etc, plus pattern matching). Private by
default is literally a huge positive for me. But the terribleness of Rust
strings is enough to put me right off of it.
I'm worried that all of us are waiting for something to replace C++ that can't
happen.
~~~
dbaupp
When you say "terrible", are you complaining about having to write
`.as_slice()` and `.to_string()` all the time?
For context for others who may not have a lot of Rust experience, Rust has two
string types, the heap allocated `String` and the 'string slice' `&str`, which
is a view of some string data anywhere in memory (possibly on the heap,
possibly not). A little more info about these types:
[http://stackoverflow.com/a/24159933/1256624](http://stackoverflow.com/a/24159933/1256624)
At the moment, conversions between them are via explicit method calls, which
can result in verbose code when handling them. An explicit conversion is
required even for the super-cheap `String` -> `&str` conversion (which is just
repackaging the 3 words (length, capacity, pointer) of String into the 2 words
(length, pointer) of the &str).
~~~
kasey_junk
That is part of the problem. The bigger part of the problem is comparing
String's with constants. It simply doesn't work easily.
Also, start trying to do pattern matching on Vec<String> vs Vec<str> (and the
wide variety of static, ref, etc versions there in) and you end up spending a
lot of effort to do what is very basic in most languages that support generic
pattern matching.
Try a simple use case, parse a command line argument array via pattern
matching in a Rust program.
~~~
dbaupp
Comparing a constant:
string.as_slice() == "foo"
"Parsing" command line args (it's not as slick as it could be, but it's not
entirely horrible... for me as an experienced Rust user anyway):
match std::os::args().as_slice() {
[] => println!("need more arguments"),
[ref x, ..] if x.as_slice() == "-h" => print_help(),
[ref a, ref b] if a.as_slice() == "-f" => write_to_file(b.as_slice())
args @ _ => println!("unrecognised arguments: {}", args)
}
Of course, using a proper parser like getopts or docopt.rs would be better:
\- [http://doc.rust-lang.org/master/getopts/](http://doc.rust-
lang.org/master/getopts/) \-
[https://github.com/BurntSushi/docopt.rs](https://github.com/BurntSushi/docopt.rs)
I think it gets smoother with practice (as in, with practice you're able to
know intuitively when you need .as_slice and when a `ref` is required etc.),
but yes, improving the ergonomics will be nice. Dynamically sized types will
allow for String to be treated implicitly as a &str in many cases, so, e.g.,
my_string.trim() will work (it currently requires
`my_string.as_slice().trim()`). And there is some loose talk about overloading
pattern matching via the same mechanism, which would allow proper pattern
matching on String with literals `"..."`.
_> support generic pattern matching._
There's some subtlety here, e.g. Haskell doesn't support pattern matching on
Data.Vector.Vector or Data.Text.Text (which are some of the closest
equivalents to &[T], Vec<T> and String).
~~~
kasey_junk
A) I understand how to make Rust do what I want with strings. B) Even with
your examples, I think you've glossed over some of the even trivial use cases
for dealing with Vec<String> vs Vec<~str> (or whatever the current
nomenclature is). C) Even with your great comments you've pointed out that
String manipulation in Rust is not "natural". Which is something that is a
very high priority for me.
That said, easy string manipulation is a high priority feature for me. Non-
private data access is a high priority feature for the original commenter. I
worry that too many of us have expectations for Rust that are unlikely to be
fulfilled.
That's not to say that the Rust team has set too high of barriers, only that
we have elevated them to something they aren't. I'm less concerned with what
the Rust team is delivering (which so far has been great) than with what
people seem to be expecting (which is nothing less than a C++ replacement in
all contexts).
~~~
kzrdude
The problem is that the string story is on two sides of a barrier erected in
Rust very much by intention: _To make memory allocation explicit, and to
enable allocation-free operations as far as possible_
This is why Rust will have you juggle String (a string with allocation) and
&str (a "string slice"; a view into an allocation elsewhere) all the time.
------
broodbucket
If you want to check out Rust and are having trouble because the docs aren't
close to done yet, Rust for Rubyists (rustforrubyists.com) just came out with
an update supporting 0.11. If you're using the nightlies, the only thing in
that book that isn't consistent (that I've found so far) is that the .to_str()
method is now .to_string().
~~~
steveklabnik
Hopefully, my re-write of the guide will fully eclipse Rust for Rubyists soon.
:)
~~~
broodbucket
I really appreciate you still updating Rust for Rubyists even though you're
working on the official guide.
~~~
steveklabnik
You're welcome. <3.
0.11 was the first edition I _completely_ re-read all the text and fixed
things, and I still had something like ~10 errors. Editing your own writing is
hard.
------
sriku
Newbie taking a serious look at Rust here.
Any notes about non-blocking I/O in rust? Iron [1] is mentioned, but am not
sure how I/O is handled in Iron yet .. or how it would be written to be non-
blocking [2]. I hear "read the source luke" echoing in the chambers of HN and
will do that, but some higher level info would be nice.
[1] [http://ironframework.io/](http://ironframework.io/)
[2]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1v2ptr/is_nonblocking_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1v2ptr/is_nonblocking_io_possible_in_rust/)
edit: This ([http://doc.rust-lang.org/native/io/](http://doc.rust-
lang.org/native/io/)) seems to suggest that the norm is non-blocking I/O which
is automatically handled by the scheduler.
~~~
ben0x539
If you explicitly use the "green" runtime that ships with rust instead of the
"native" runtime, you get green threads where the built-in blocking IO only
blocks the green thread but lets the OS-level thread carry on executing other
green threads.
Internally that is built on top of libuv for async IO, but as far as I know,
Rust currently doesn't expose any interface for manually doing async or
nonblocking IO.
~~~
sriku
It seems this issue was only recently closed (May 9) [1] .. and it seems a
websocket library with full duplex support is still in the works.
[1] [https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/11165](https://github.com/rust-
lang/rust/issues/11165)
------
tempodox
This is welcome news.
Also, I wasn't sure that Vec<T> was actually ~[T], I couldn't find that in the
docs. Thanks for spelling it out.
I see Rust as a language that could become the “next C” (only better), and I'm
excited watching it evolve.
------
jbooth
Is there a capability or plans to be able to export a header file from Rust
code that C code (or Python, Go, whatever) could reference? I couldn't find
anything when searching for it but it seems that it'd be possible since Rust
doesn't have a runtime, right?
~~~
dbaupp
Yes, you can expose C symbols from a Rust library:
#[no_mangle]
pub extern fn rustlib_increment(x: i32) -> i32 { x + 1 }
#10350 covers actually printing a .h file from Rust code.
[https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/10530](https://github.com/rust-
lang/rust/issues/10530)
~~~
jbooth
Awesome. I think the ability to write a nice .h file, in particular, will
really be the killer feature for Rust as "better systems language". Exporting
headers and symbols for higher level languages in a format that's universally
understood.
------
nobotty
I'll be more interested when they've found a way to work with native binaries
on windows, and handle creating/using binaries that take full advantage of the
PE's import/export functionality. In reality it's not cross-platform if it
doesn't support the almost guaranteed necessary features of the platform --
utilizing compiled dynamic libraries.
~~~
cmrx64
Open an issue. There is really only one contributor who works on Windows
support. We need more people telling us what we are doing wrong on Windows.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ember Fastboot - brett-anderson
http://www.ember-fastboot.com
======
tomdale
One of the authors of FastBoot here. I'm happy to answer any questions anyone
has.
(P.S. One thing I think that's pretty meta-cool about the FastBoot site is
that it is, itself, a FastBoot site, running on Heroku.)
~~~
jakubp
Hi, I'm new to Ember and more complex JS apps in general. Can you confirm my
initial "understanding" of what you did?
Normally Ember app would render everything within the browser after all JS is
downloaded and components etc. are processed. With Fastboot, somehow an
additional, non-interfering layer of computation on the server does the same
loop (without having to download anything and without significantly slowing
down overall client app JS initialization) and sends the output to the client.
It does it for every route separately. I'm guessing that somehow the client's
processing is disabled on that first "pageview" to avoid double calculation.
Is that correct? (if it is, it's very cool :)
~~~
tomdale
With Fastboot, somehow an additional, non-interfering layer of computation on the server does the same loop (without having to download anything and without significantly slowing down overall client app JS initialization)
Right. Typically, the way most client-side JavaScript applications (or "SPAs")
work is by having a small, static HTML file that doesn't contain much content
(beyond maybe a loading page). It contains <script> tags that point at your
JavaScript payload.
First the browser downloads the HTML, then the JavaScript, then the JavaScript
runs and fetches the data via XHR. Only then does the user see the content
they were after in the first place.
This actually works surprisingly well for "workspace" apps where the user is
using it throughout the day (Gmail, Google Docs, etc.) On modern devices with
good broadband, the difference is negligible.
But the thing this sucks for is content sites, where you aren't using an "app"
but you're just clicking a link in Twitter or something. If it doesn't load
within a second or so, you aren't that invested that you don't just close the
tab. That has been the biggest source of pushback on frameworks like Angular
and Ember for sites like this.
FastBoot bends the curve by replacing that static HTML file. Rather than
serving an empty document that just points to JavaScript assets, we keep your
Ember app running in Node.js on the server. When an HTTP request comes in, we
direct it to Ember's router, where it figures out what models to load and
components to render. When it finishes, it sends the document back to the
browser.
You can think about this is as effectively outsourcing the JavaScript runtime
to the server for the first load, but then the browser can take over again on
subsequent navigations so it's very fast.
I think FastBoot is a great option for search crawlers, Facebook and Twitter
embedding (it supports Open Graph and Twitter Cards), and supporting
JavaScript-less clients. Most importantly, it's a way to get content quickly
to users with a cold cache.
That said, we are planning to aggressively take advantage of App Cache and
Service Worker, so ideally any second-time visitor to your site only has to
fetch the raw data to see what they're after.
I'm guessing that somehow the client's processing is disabled on that first "pageview" to avoid double calculation. Is that correct? (if it is, it's very cool :)
Currently it does a full rerender once it loads, but one of the motivating
features for writing Glimmer 2 is the ability to quickly "rehydrate", so that
rerenders are imperceptible to the user assuming nothing has changed. We'd
also love to automatically serialize the backing models of the app so you
don't have to double fetch.
~~~
mtberatwork
> When an HTTP request comes in, we direct it to Ember's router, where it
> figures out what models to load and components to render. When it finishes,
> it sends the document back to the browser.
Aren't we now just back to square one again in terms of MVC frameworks? What
are the advantages here over simply implementing Django, RoR, Spring, Laravel,
etc and cutting back on the JS (at least in terms of content-driven sites)?
~~~
orf
> What are the advantages here over simply implementing...
You get all of the advantages of single page apps, without the unresponsive
initial load time. There are also whole classes of apps you can't build with
Django, RoR etc, so the question is a bit ridiculous IMO.
~~~
takno
It really isn't. Jumping into using a huge performance sink like ember to add
a little interactivity to a content page is a horrible decision to start with.
This just seems to drag the poor performance back to kill your server
~~~
orf
That's a straw man though. Sure, adding Ember for a "little interactivity" is
kind of stupid. But if you want to add a lot of interactivity? Is a load of
"$.click" function soup better?
------
look_lookatme
Ember continues to be an antidote to the insane package/build madness in the
JS ecosystem. It's opinionated for sure but it's also very easy to get started
with.
~~~
hardwaresofton
While I love Ember, one of it's biggest downfalls is definitely has a longer
ramp up period, and more complexity than other frameworks. Ember's
documentation is very good now, but still, there is a lot you have to read
(and eventually experience to truly understand) about how ember works under
the covers.
One of ember's greatest benefits is that it adapts to change and doesn't miss
out on features for very long at all (you can look at fastboot as a reaction
to isomorphic react apps, or something that the ember team would have just
pursued anyway). However, that benefit can also be a pitfall for newcomers to
ember as it's hard to find consistent discussion, help, and resources for a
framework that changes so fast.
BTW, while Ember CLI makes things much easier, it does not improve the
complexity situation, it just becomes one more thing you have to learn when
learning Ember (even as a newbie). What if a newbie isn't familiar with node?
what if they're not sure why you're precompiling? what if they're not familiar
with task runners like grunt and gulp?
Contrasted with frameworks like Angular 1, Backbone+Marionette, Ember
definitely has the most rampup and complexity, not the least.
~~~
sotojuan
I think the CLI helps tremendously, even if you have to learn it (and for
simple stuff you don't aside from `ember new` and `ember start`, maybe a few
file generators). The biggest problem with beginners is setting up a JS
environment—I've seen people waste hours doing it. Ember's CLI tool takes care
of all of that.
~~~
hardwaresofton
I agree it helps -- but there is a hidden cost of people not understanding all
the towers of abstraction that have been built up for them, despite sitting on
top of it.
Ember CLI does file generation and a whole lot more. I'm not saying it
shouldn't -- but that shouldn't be the easiest most approachable way to start
with Ember.
Why should someone have to learn all the following things:
\- transpiling
\- nodejs
\- npm & packaging
\- bower
\- broccoli/task runners
\- livereload
... just to START with a web framework?
Maybe don't market Ember to beginners? Again, I like Ember, I think it's the
most viable large framework out there right now -- but this is certainly an
issue
~~~
sotojuan
Good points, though I'll say I've rarely seen Ember be recommended to
beginners.
And to be fair, the same thing has been said about React, though both Ember
and React allow you to use a CDN link like in the good old days.
~~~
orf
> I've rarely seen Ember be recommended to beginners.
I started a new job and went from 0 JS (other than some JQuery and knowing the
syntax) to 100 with Ember. Ember is really really good for beginners,
grandparent talks of having to know transpiling, broccoli/task runners and
livereload but doesn't understand that you need to know _none_ of that to get
working with Ember.
Write your app by editing the files ember-cli produces. No transpiling, or add
transpiling with a single 'ember install' command. Who cares about broccoli, I
just edit my ember-cli-build.js file with some paths and it all works.
Livereload is hardly difficult to understand, with Ember you just run "ember
serve" and it also all just works.
~~~
hardwaresofton
I stand corrected -- clearly what I thought was what beginners would feel is
not what they did.
My point though, was that after you build on all this complexity that you
don't understand (and don't have to deal with), when something goes wrong,
you're in for a world of hurt. But maybe that's not an issue
~~~
iamstef
Abstractions aim to hide complexity until one requires them.
As a developer, one becomes productive when one realize when to put the
blinders on, and when to take them off. As such I for one, love that I don't
need knowledge of x86 assembler, chip design, or signal processing until the
problem at hand actually requires them.
Ember-cli aspires to keep developers focused on features, not orthogonal tech.
That is unless they need to peel back that layer of the onion, and dive in.
Even then, the goal is for only a few community members to dive in, explore
the problem space, and ultimately contribute the solution. Next release, all
community members benefit, without also having to invest (until the point
where they have a specific itch to scratch).
Abstractions hurt when they leak, as such we must aspire to provide the best
abstractions we can (at each layer), and this is only possible in
collaboration with an eager and enthusiastic community.
An symptom of a curated solution, is all aspects of the stack evolve to work
together. Mitigate abstraction leaks at the various boundaries.
------
diegorbaquero
Amazing work. Just read all of this: [http://tomdale.net/2015/02/youre-
missing-the-point-of-server...](http://tomdale.net/2015/02/youre-missing-the-
point-of-server-side-rendered-javascript-apps/)
This is probably the thing I hate the most from client-side apps. Can't wait
to test this and Angular 2 on production!
~~~
sotojuan
And I just read the quickstart[1], amazingly it only seems to take two
commands to do (obviously just the basic example, but still).
[1] [http://www.ember-fastboot.com/quickstart](http://www.ember-
fastboot.com/quickstart)
~~~
hatsix
Good news is that on a medium-sized project (10s of routes and models), it
still just takes two commands... haven't gone through setting up production
yet, but I don't foresee any big issues.
~~~
reitoei
> haven't gone through setting up production yet, but I don't foresee any big
> issues
Famous last words :)
------
sotojuan
Ember just keeps getting more and more interesting (Ember NYC meet ups have
been great so far!). Going to have to give a good, lengthy try. Coming from
React, I like the cli tool and strong community conventions.
------
taveras
I saw Tom give a great presentation on FastBoot back in January. for those
interested, here is the checklist for getting to 1.0:
[https://github.com/tildeio/ember-cli-
fastboot/issues/98](https://github.com/tildeio/ember-cli-fastboot/issues/98)
------
lotyrin
This is great! Anyone know how far analogous initiatives are for competing
projects?
~~~
MatthewPhillips
I work on server-side rendering for DoneJS[1] and ours is probably the best
solution out there today, in my biased opinion. We provide:
* Fully asynchronous rendering, so you don't have to awkwardly architect your app so that it can be rendered synchronously.
* Everything is fully progressively loaded. This means if you go to a particular page in your app, only that page's JavaScript and CSS will be downloaded in the client. Additionally the correct css link elements will be inserted.
* Caching XHR requests so that they are not repeated on the client (data used to render is included in the page).
What makes our solution unique is that you have to think about the server
_very little_ , if at all. If you need to make a request to services, just
make it in your code. No additional wiring is needed and everything will be
server rendered.
Much of this is possible because of Zones, a spec that is being worked on for
standardization in TC39. We have a library that implements Zones[2] with SSR
in mind. This is what makes XHR caching possible, for example. Check out this
simple jQuery example app[3] (using jsdom on the server) to see how easy Zones
make things.
I did a talk at Node Interactive this year about SSR and what goes into a good
SSR solution:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYdrfrL6ZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYdrfrL6ZQ)
[1][https://donejs.com/](https://donejs.com/)
[2][https://github.com/canjs/can-zone](https://github.com/canjs/can-zone)
[3][https://github.com/canjs/can-zone-jquery-
example](https://github.com/canjs/can-zone-jquery-example)
~~~
hatsix
> What makes our solution unique is that you have to think about the server
> very little, if at all.
What is an example of something a dev might have to think about with fastboot
that they don't have to think about with DoneJS?
------
cubano
Trying to run the demo in win10....
Build error
The Broccoli Plugin: [object Object] failed with:
RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded
at new Error (native)
at Error (native)
at Object.fs.mkdirSync (fs.js:794:18)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot- example\node_modules\ember- network\node_modules\broccoli- templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli- funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:71:13)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot- example\node_modules\ember- network\node_modules\broccoli-templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli-funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:77:24)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot-example\node_modules\ember-network\node_modules\broccoli-templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli-funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:78:17)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot-example\node_modules\ember-network\node_modules\broccoli-templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli-funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:78:17)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot-example\node_modules\ember-network\node_modules\broccoli-templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli-funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:78:17)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot-example\node_modules\ember-network\node_modules\broccoli-templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli-funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:78:17)
at sync (C:\Users\marke\ember\github-fastboot-example\node_modules\ember-network\node_modules\broccoli-templater\node_modules\broccoli-stew\node_modules\broccoli-funnel\node_modules\mkdirp\index.js:78:17)
The broccoli plugin was instantiated at:
undefined
Any ideas?
~~~
mixonic
Opening an issue on [https://github.com/tildeio/ember-cli-
fastboot](https://github.com/tildeio/ember-cli-fastboot) is probably the best
way to get help tracking down a bug.
~~~
cubano
Yes of course. Thanks.
Looking around on the site I didn't see a link to report something like this,
and I didn't immediately think to goto github with it.
Please excuse my ignorance.
~~~
mixonic
Np! There is also a #-fastboot room on the Ember Community Slack, directions
for jumping in there can be found on emberjs.com:
[http://emberjs.com/community/](http://emberjs.com/community/)
------
Corrspt
Looking forward to see this project grow. Haven't had the time to check it
out, but as I've been using Ember for the past months, it looks very
interesting.
------
qaq
Was just about to start a new app in Angular 2 because it seamed progress on
fastboot was slow now might need to re-evaluate.
------
k__
Is this available with Ember-CLI only?
~~~
tomdale
Yes, it relies heavily on Ember CLI.
~~~
k__
Sad to hear. I switched to React last year because I had the fear this would
happen.
~~~
quaunaut
May I ask what your reticence is to Ember-CLI?
~~~
k__
I dislike code generators and want to use my own tooling for building,
testing, etc.
In my eyes Ember has become an old-school Rails like Blob and newer frameworks
are more about modules and "Bring Your Own Tools". I mean who, besides Ember,
uses Broccoli?!
~~~
quaunaut
But what exactly is the point of a framework if you're bringing your own
tools?
~~~
k__
To me it always feels like they devs admit they failed the day they start to
include code generators into their frameworks.
~~~
quaunaut
That seems to me like a really bizarre thing based on a really personal
story(that I'd like to hear). After all:
* Code generators can speed up development * They give newbies a better idea of how the framework should be treated * They give the framework a more dependable layout * They still provide the escape hatch of not using them!
What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator?
~~~
k__
> What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator?
Creating an understandable API and making stuff easily extensible.
I often have the feeling these code generators try to hide bad design
decisions, which resulted in a huge amount of boilerplate code, that wouldn't
be needed if things were designed different.
And you can't even blame most frameworks for it. Ember has so much history
that you can't simply throw every thing out, because "now animations or
server-rendering is a PITA", so devs maneuver around it with code generators.
There are valid reasons to have them. But when I have to choose frameworks for
a new project, code generators are definitely red flags for me.
I don't have much of a problem with this controller/route/model generation
stuff, that you mentioned. I wouldn't use it, but I can see why people save a
few minutes.
~~~
quaunaut
That's really all that Ember has in terms of code generation. That, and
getting tests set up for you.
I don't see how you have a large ecosystem that is still friendly to a new
developer without code generators unless you want huge boilerplate. A frontend
requires a lot of moving parts, and letting someone else take care of that for
me is important.
------
tcfunk
Funny that this came up on the same day as the blog post / rant about
progressive enhancement :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stanford CS 144: Introduction to Computer Networking - charlysl
https://cs144.github.io/
======
charlysl
OP here. I think the best would be to do the labs in posted link, after
watching the great video lectures (which have quizzes but are lacking labs) in
the free online Stanford course:
[https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/Engineering/Networking...](https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/Engineering/Networking-
SP/SelfPaced/about)
AFAIK this combination would be the best free computer networking course out
there, specially if combined with the MIT 6.033 systems engineering videos, to
understand complex systems design concepts in a wider context, and how they
were applied, in particular, to the internet and the ethernet.
Also, regarding ethernet, there is a realy good old presentation by Metcalfe
in youtube: [https://youtu.be/Fj7r3vYAjGY](https://youtu.be/Fj7r3vYAjGY)
~~~
abhishekjha
Where is the link for the lecture videos?
~~~
bitcollector
Here is the youtube playlist if anyone is interested.
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvFG2xYBrYAQCyz4Wx3NP...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvFG2xYBrYAQCyz4Wx3NPoYJOFjvU7g2Z)
~~~
sharjeelsayed
Thanks for sharing my curated playlist
------
bjourne
A good book to accompany this course is TCP/IP Protocol Suite 4th Ed. by
Behrouz A. Forouzan which can be found online here:
[https://archive.org/details/TCPIPProtocolSuite4thEd.B.Forouz...](https://archive.org/details/TCPIPProtocolSuite4thEd.B.ForouzanMcGrawHill2010BBS)
~~~
charlysl
From this course's syllabus: _The optional course textbook is: Kurose and
Ross, Computer Networking: A Top Down Approach, 7th edition._
------
fnord77
In general, I wish the Stanford CS lecture videos were available online to
everyone.
~~~
cookie_monsta
There seem to be quite a few MOOCs available[1]. edX and coursera have content
from big name universities, too
[1]
[https://online.stanford.edu/courses?keywords=computer+scienc...](https://online.stanford.edu/courses?keywords=computer+science)
~~~
ghaff
Unfortunately MOOCs, including at this point even edX, have really been
tightening up on what you have access to for free. By and large, you can still
get the videos, at least while the class is running, but not a lot else.
------
porknubbins
I’d started one lab but lost track of them years ago and been looking. All I
ever fou d was the Lagunita videos. Definitely will do these when I get time,
thanks!
~~~
charlysl
OP here, I was in the same situation. The only way I eventually managed to get
the labs was by dirbusting this stanford course's url a few months ago (felt a
bit bad about this but I was a bit desperate and it did the job, I managed to
get the lab pdfs/htmls, zips and even the vm; I also found it a bit ironic
that I managed to get network labs from a top university in such a fashion).
But this link is the most up to date version, of course. And this time they
put the labs in github, just great.
------
kureikain
Anyone know how I can get a free Stanford account to watch their video?
~~~
cookie_monsta
I just signed up to the online course that OP linked to. I assume they're the
same videos
~~~
kureikain
oh cool. Thank. I got in. Really like this course.
------
q3k
I can't see a mention of IPv6 anywhere, and IPv4 is talked about as 'the' IP
protocol.
Disappointing and frustrating.
~~~
swiley
Just use getaddrinfo and don’t make assumptions about what names/addresses
look like.
Really, it’s CS so the ideas around building correct systems over a network
are much more interesting than how to use a particular version of the sockets
API (which just requires reading documentation.) Attitudes like that are how
you end up only having electives like “how to build an app in framework x.”
The whole point of the CS degree is to teach you to read/write documentation
so by definition classes that read it for you are a waste of money and time
and are the _most_ frustrating.
~~~
q3k
But this course _does_ actually look at IP headers, checksumming,
fragmentation, CIDR, discovery protocols and whatnot. Those are also important
to understand in the context of IPv6.
------
cookie_monsta
Could somebody explain why this is news? I'm obviously missing the relevance
~~~
strombofulous
It's not, just something cool that OP found. This kind of stuff is posted here
a lot, along with Wikipedia pages etc
~~~
cookie_monsta
Ok, thanks. I wasn't being snarky I was just curious
~~~
charlysl
OP here, since you are curious, this is why I decided to post this: as someone
else has remarked above, there is a fantastic Stanford free networking course
in Lagunita. It is the real thing, full force undiluted highbrow not dumbed
down, unlike so many other moocs. Except, frustratingly, unlike the real
Stanford course, the challenging labs are missing, so people were missing that
necessary balance between theory and practice. But now Stanford has made said
labs publicly available, this term. Given that this is AFAIK the best free
networking course out there, I thought HN readership might be interested to
know that now it's even better (and, as it happens, it was).
~~~
cookie_monsta
Great. Thanks for the explanation. I'm not from the US so please forgive my
ignorance as to CS 144's significance. That's all I was really asking - when I
asked that question there was no accompanying commentary here.
~~~
charlysl
No problem. Your remark made me realize that maybe I should have worked harder
on the title. I am not from the US either, English is not my first language,
but on top of having most of the best universities they also seem to be making
great university courses available for free much more than anybody else.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Does Karma really matter? - traviswingo
When reading HN, I never look at the user who posted the content and never consider how much Karma that user had at the time of posting. So it's made me wonder, do these things have much influence at all on here?
======
sctb
There are features that become available after a relatively small amount of
karma has been accumulated (e.g. flagging, custom top color), but for story
and comment ranking it's a level playing field.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Programming is Frustrating – This is Why There is a Shortage of Programmers - robbiea
http://robbieabed.com/programming-isnt-hard-its-just-frustrating-this-is-why-there-is-a-shortage-of-programmers/
======
computerslol
"Programming Isn’t Hard, It’s Just Frustrating – This is Why There is a
Shortage of Programmers"
I'm not sure your cargo-cult experiences with PHP qualify this blanket
statement about the entire industry :|.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Yahoo Starts Prompting Chrome Users to “Upgrade” to Firefox - jonastern
http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/12/yahoo-starts-prompting-chrome-users-to-upgrade-to-firefox/
======
dochtman
Seems like that has no doubt been an important part of the deal that Yahoo!
and Mozilla made. It's an interesting way to get back at Google's heavy
promotion of Chrome on their properties.
~~~
bonzoT
agreed. the term upgrade also brings with it a connotation of being better. I
am doubtful that this is this case.
~~~
frabcus
I've been using Firefox again recently - I stopped when it was slower and less
stable than Chrome.
These days it often feels faster than Chrome.
~~~
b-ryan
I've been using Firefox for several months and have no regrets. On Ubuntu
Chrome was doing all sorts of weird things, plus being slow. Firefox's tab
groups is also a great feature.
~~~
smtddr
On my Linux MINT machine, chrome keeps doing something[1] that ends up locking
up my whole machine and I have to hard-reboot. It got to a point where I
actually had to set up Ctrl+Alt+K to issue "pkill -9 chrome" so as soon as I
see the mouse-pointer movement become non-smooth or music start to skip, I
slam on those keys to kill chrome before I have to restart my whole machine.
Then I just went to Firefox developer edition[2]. Is it better? I dunno, but I
like its cool dark theme, my system hasn't locked up since and now I got all
those cool extensions back again.
1\.
[http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2203672](http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2203672)
2\. [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/Firefox/Developer_Editio...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/Firefox/Developer_Edition)
~~~
Mikeb85
Hate to say it, but Linux Mint is a buggy mess.
Chrome works fine on the vast majority of Linux distros. Even if a page hangs,
Chrome doesn't crash...
~~~
barbs
I'm running Linux Mint and I don't have this problem. Chrome runs pretty well
for me.
~~~
674266966223478
How is that relevant? It doesn't matter if it works for you. It doesn't work
for somebody else, which means there is a problem of some sort.
~~~
barbs
The discussion is about Google Chrome not working on Linux Mint. I said that
Google Chrome works for me on Linux Mint. How is that not relevant?
I'm not saying there's no problem, I'm just offering my experience to
demonstrate that perhaps the problem isn't just "Chrome runs poorly on Linux
Mint", and to offer a counterexample to "Linux Mint is a buggy mess".
------
joelthelion
Given the number of times Google has prompted me to "upgrade" to Chrome, this
is only fair game.
~~~
smosher_
No kidding. (How is this even news?)
~~~
fiberloptic
You are commenting on 'nothing'?
~~~
helperdev
LOL! Down voted because nerds.
------
bobajeff
Good for Mozilla. They need some promotion from websites. I've heard that
Google use to do this for them but I guess that changed once they made their
own browser.
I'm still not going to use Yahoo search as it's really just Google search only
not as good. Hopefully one day there will be a challenge to Google.
~~~
danw3
I've just started using duckduckgo.com. Don't have any complaints so far.
~~~
toxican
I have but one, and it's that it consistently fails to find me what I need as
well as Google does. I made a serious effort this week to use DuckDuckGo and
made it my default search engine. I wasted so much time googling stuff I'd
just DDG'd to find what I actually wanted. I love and support DDG fully, but
Google still does search better, imo.
Apparently !g is a thing though? I may have to give that a try so I can have
the benefits of DDG, but the results of google.
~~~
iopq
Yeah, I usually search with DDG and then add !g to it when I don't find
anything good in my first search results
------
tszming
I always joke to my friends that why Chrome didn't bring extension support to
Android - Because extension support will hurt Google's mobile ads revenue so
deeply if you can install adblock with one click.
So, please also consider support a non-profit organization like Mozilla, when
their products are actually not weaker.
~~~
thejosh
>non-profit organization
Apart from when they switch existing users settings over to Yahoo by default.
~~~
xgbi
It is still non-profit if at the end of the year they have ... no profit. If
this move allows them to keep afloat, then I don't see the problem.
------
alexbardas
Makes a lot of sense to me, Firefox is an excellent browser. I hope it will
keep its independence though.
~~~
ironmagma
Chrome doesn't even work with its own company's social network plugin
(Hangouts). I always have to switch to Firefox to use screen share.
~~~
datamatt
I haven't encountered problems with Hangouts. But the new Firefox Hello
service for in browser webcam chats is pretty awesome:
[https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-hello-make-
rece...](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-hello-make-receive-
calls-without-account)
(disclaimer: I do actually work for mozilla)
~~~
ironmagma
Seems only tangential, since I don't see anything about group calls or screen
share (which are the main features we need Hangouts for).
~~~
dao-
I believe group calls will be in Firefox 35. Not sure about screen sharing,
but it's being worked on and coming soon.
------
cpeterso
Calling a promo banner a "prompt" is a bit of an exaggeration. Also, the same
"Upgrade to the new Firefox" message is also shown to Firefox versions less
than the current version (34).
~~~
sp332
If this isn't a prompt, what would a prompt look like?
~~~
umeshunni
I dunno, something like this:
[http://imgur.com/HNQWMBq](http://imgur.com/HNQWMBq)
~~~
cpeterso
Yes. To me, a "prompt" is UI that requires user interaction, like annoying
flyover ads.
------
ChuckMcM
Part of a more strategic move I believe for Yahoo! to get back into the search
business. When their 10 year contract with Microsoft is up I would not be
surprised to see them switch to a new index of their own making. What has
always been interesting to me about search though is that the two big players
who have a lot to gain by having their own search index (Facebook and Apple)
have so far chosen not to go there. Putting on my prognostication hat I see
Yahoo! shipping on a new index in 2016 and being bought by either Apple(most
need) or Facebook(most likely) in 2017 :-)
------
l33tbro
Too bad their shitty mail service does not play nicely at all with Firefox.
Seriously, Yahoo Mail does not even allow me to attach a PDF when I'm in
Firefox.
There's a raft of other functionality issues which drove me to the decision to
migrate 15 years worth of emails out of it.
~~~
aikah
For me it has always been about the spam filter(gmail is way better at it)
,and the fact that I didn't have to pay to read my mails in outlook with
gmail.Maybe it has changed but the "forwarding" was a paid feature in yahoo
mail.
~~~
_delirium
Oddly the lack of a decent spam-filter was the reason I left gmail. It had
_way_ too many false positives for me, including some very problematic ones.
The last straw was when it flagged an email from my landlord as spam, with the
explanation that it was flagged because it was written in Danish, a language I
don't normally communicate in. It's true that I don't normally write in
Danish. But I do _live_ in Denmark, so it doesn't seem very justified to flag
something as spam just because it's written in Danish. If anything, emails
written in Danish are the most likely to be important!
~~~
Karunamon
I've had the opposite experience - demos of hosting mail elsewhere lead to me
getting absolutely overwhelmed by spam. I think being a gmail user since it
was initially released has given it a really long time to train to the spam I
normally receive.
Very few false positives too. Maybe one or two a month.
~~~
_delirium
One or two false positives a month? You must have low standards. <1 false
positives a year is my threshold. I don't believe that throwing out non-spam
emails is acceptable.
~~~
Karunamon
Not even remotely realistic, in my experience.
------
wjoe
I don't see any such notice if I try going to Yahoo in Chrome. Perhaps because
I'm in Europe where Yahoo doesn't have the search deal with Mozilla. Or
perhaps it's just confused with the Linux user agent or something.
Happy Firefox user here though. Glad they aren't so reliant on Google funding
now, I expect the Yahoo/Baidu/Yandex deal with get them more money than Google
alone, without being too reliant on any one party.
------
wycats
Google deserves every last inch of this.
------
IgorPartola
I love me some Firefox. I do. I am really glad that it is a major browser, and
that people use it. I am very grateful for the innovation it brings. But I
cannot bring myself to use it. Chrome was late to the party, but it got a
fundamental issue right: tabs and plugins get their own process spaces. This
is huge for performance. I am lucky to own a newish top of the line computer
and I trnd not to have more than a dozen tabs open at once. I cannot do this
workflow in Firefox. It gets slower as I go, and it's memory usage creeps up.
Flash makes things worse (don't recommend that I turn it off; doing front-end
work still involves it from time to time). I fire it up periodically to check
it out, but it just does not work for me and that makes me sad.
------
sp332
This is also happening for people who have paid for Yahoo Mail in order to not
have ads. I would be asking for my money back if they start showing me ads
like that!
Edit: source
[https://twitter.com/AnthonyPAlicea/status/542670797912166400](https://twitter.com/AnthonyPAlicea/status/542670797912166400)
~~~
rohandhruva
Do you mind sharing why you still use Yahoo Mail, let alone paying to use it?
(serious question)
~~~
yuhong
I think most of the complaints are about the user interface nowadays. It
sometimes does have other problems, but that is probably because it takes a
while for Yahoo to change.
~~~
EarthLaunch
After 12+ years of service they deleted my secondary email account because I
hadn't visited it in less than a year ("username has been recycled"), then
wouldn't let me re-claim the username, and have no support contact for it. I
will never trust them with anything important.
~~~
danielweber
You made me launch my old Yahoo account to be sure it's still there.
Then I tried to respond to an email in Yahoo! Mail, and __EVERYTIME I HIT THE
LETTER 'i' IT POPS UP A CHAT DIALOG BOX WTF __. Sorry, but it 's really
frustrating.
------
danielweber
"Chrome" in headline.
Doesn't appear at all in the article.
------
kasabali
Now this started to look like a fair play.
------
ender89
I don't see a problem with this, its what google has been doing for years.
------
awalton
Ok. Google prompts me to "Upgrade to Chrome" all of the time.
------
gordon_freeman
I just don't understand Yahoo's user acquisition strategy here. I updated my
Firefox to latest version a week ago and it took literally less than a minute
for me to set Google as default search engine. I know that if given choice
between Yahoo and Google, I'll almost always use Google for 2 main reasons:
Search quality and it is just that I'm accustomed to making specific search
queries on Google. The thing I don't understand here is: what Yahoo will gain
by this deal with Mozilla? I mean why don't they try to improve the quality of
their search product and gain users that way rather than forcing an inferior
search as default on Firefox.
~~~
eddieplan9
Being the default is a _huge_ deal. You only need to look at how many people
are still on IE (8!).
Plus, search quality is a very subjective matter. I have Bing on my phone for
a while (mostly to avoid Google's redirect links), and I hardly notice it any
more.
~~~
thawkins
The ie8 thing is because it is the last version you can run on the massive
number of pirated XP copies out there.
------
jdlyga
To give it some credit, Firefox is pretty damn good in the past few months
after the multi-process updates they've been making.
------
watwut
Funny. And google is prompting me to upgrade to chrome. I wonder what would
happen if I would use some MS service.
------
at-fates-hands
Despite the browser wars, the newest annoyance is having to use Yahoo's search
engine. I figured I would give it a few weeks and see how good it was compared
to Google.
Two weeks in and I'm done with it. Almost every search is useless to me. Even
just doing local searches was painful.
Type in pizza + your city and I got a bunch of ads and "Top 10 pizza places in
(insert your city here)" and a ton of Yelp reviews. All I wanted was a list of
pizza places near me.
I have a dozen other examples, but in a nutshell, it was just really poor at
returning results I was expecting.
~~~
Amezarak
> Despite the browser wars, the newest annoyance is having to use Yahoo's
> search engine.
Have to? Changing the default search engine in Firefox is as simple as
clicking on the search-box dropdown and selecting a different search engine.
Two clicks.
~~~
gtremper
Generally, the number of clicks isn't the issue. Its knowing which clicks to
make.
~~~
Amezarak
Sure, but in this case, we're talking about a dropdown marked on the main UI
immediately next to the search box. It's not as of it's hidden. Anyone who
realizes the search engine has changed is saavy enough to figure out how to
change it.
~~~
wutbrodo
You would be surprised. "Obvious" UI hints that are intuitive for someone like
you or me are not for a LOT of people. Some subset of those people is still
likely to be able to notice that their searches now take them to a page that
says "Yahoo" at the top instead of "Google".
------
zeruch
The odd part here is that Firefox has gone back to being my primary browser.
The fact that it now disables/disallows extensions the Play store doesnt like
and flat out locks you from doing so manually really annoyed me.
Don't try to out-Apple Apple, it doesn't win you any favor.
While they aren't packaged by default, some of the tools around FF for .js
work just as well as on Chrome, and the only thing hat Chrome has that I can
see FF doesn't is process isolation.
~~~
wanderingstan
> The fact that it now disables/disallows the Play store doesnt like...
I assume here you're referring to Chrome, not Firefox?
~~~
zeruch
correct
------
jrochkind1
Google certainly did the same thing to promote Chrome on web search and other
places.
I'm not sure if Google used the misleading "upgrade" terminology -- I'm also
not sure if most people know the difference between "upgrading" and
"switching" anyway, and those who do are obviously the ones who won't be
misled anyway.
It still makes them look sleazy to those who do know the difference.
------
debacle
Firefox also automatically updated my default search on every device to Yahoo,
even though I deselected that option.
I was pretty pissed about that.
------
john2x
Why isn't Google facing the same issues Microsoft faced back in the Windows +
IE dominant days?
~~~
moonshinefe
An even bigger example would be Apple.
------
pwr22
No different than when Google was telling me to upgrade to chrome whenever I
visited their sites
------
huhtenberg
Not just Chrome users. I am on Firefox and I got this message too. I'm
guessing they show it to everyone who's not using FF34.
------
avodonosov
I don't see that "Upgrade to the new Firefox" link... ah, wait, I am already
on the Firefox!
------
skrowl
Chrome to Firefox is a large upgrade. No one that cares about their privacy
should still be using Chrome.
------
stephengoodwin
Tomorrow's headline: Google Starts Prompting Yahoo Mail Users to "Upgrade" to
Gmail.
------
preillyme
Given that Firefox now uses Yahoo as its default search engine, this move
doesn’t come as a huge surprise. Yahoo clearly wants as many people as
possible to use Firefox — and with it its search engine (which is powered by
Microsoft Bing).
------
Istof
I love Firefox but it is unusable on my Android phone because it uses close to
100% CPU (I tried the latest version less then 2 weeks ago) ...
edit: downvote me, but Firefox is still way too CPU intensive on Android
~~~
gtk40
Interesting. I use it as a daily driver on a lower powered phone (Moto G first
gen) and in fact, it's about the only browser that works well on my older
Android tablet (Dell Streak 7 on HC).
~~~
Brakenshire
Works well on my old Android phone as well.
------
ryanSrich
So long as no one is promoting IE I have no gripes (for those saying newer IE
is better than older IE, I agree, still please avoid using IE).
------
junto
Next we'll have Microsoft pushing IE down our throats when we visit Bing...
:-)
------
tedsmith
I don’t think that Apple will follow Firefox. They will renew the contract
with Google (as default search engine in Safari). Maybe they get a better
price...
------
gcb0
if techcrunch thinks my favorite browser should be scorned with quotes on
'upgrade'... i'm on the right path!
thanks for the confirmation, techcrunch!
------
WorldWideWayne
I'd really like someone to come along and make a Webkit/Blink based browser
that doesn't suck. I'd pay for it.
Neither Chrome nor Firefox respects my operating system. Both of them take up
the whole title-bar with their tabs, rendering useless the window functions
that depend on that area. They have non-standard menu systems and very poor
keyboard acceleration. Chrome gives you zero control over things like HTML5
video auto-play and I just can't stand to use Firefox because they keep
changing the UI and it gets worse every time.
~~~
stealthascope
Using MATE [1] I don't have this problem at all.
1: [http://mate-desktop.org/](http://mate-desktop.org/)
------
ivanca
If Google decides to respond, they should just delete all Yahoo and Mozilla
results from their search engine; and if they do it would be just fair (...
and Mozilla complaining would be extremely hypocritical)
------
smegel
That's funny, it's been years since I used either of them.
~~~
yournemesis
I don't get it.
------
LukeFitzpatrick
Unfortunately I stopped using Firefox a few years ago, found it to be more of
a distraction than a benefit.
But it's good that Yahoo is doing something to compete with Google, if they
don't than who will? I'm personally a big fan of Google, they lead the way of
change.
------
j_baker
My first question: is this intentional or is it a bug? This wouldn't be the
first time a website has mistakenly prompted a user to upgrade their browser.
~~~
pconner
It sounds like intentional marketing-language to me. It's not uncommon for
physical products to be referred to as "The New *" whenever they get some sort
of change. In this case, it's a newer version of Firefox, and people viewing
this ad on other browsers might not have tried Firefox since its last couple
of upgrades.
------
RemoteWorker
ITT: If Google does it it's ok, if Yahoo does it it's not.
~~~
mmanfrin
What are you talking about? There is maybe 1 total critical comment:
[http://i.imgur.com/8cI6hCW.png](http://i.imgur.com/8cI6hCW.png)
Hell, there are more comments in _favor_ of this _because_ Google did the
same. Quit playing the false victim card.
------
DoubleMalt
That would probably make me stop using Yahoo.
Although I grudgingly accept a similar prompt on mobile Workflowy (I use
firefox there and are prompted to use Chrome for it) even though it annoys the
crap out of me. There is not even a possibility to turn this off.
But for Yahoo I have alternatives for workflowy not (yet).
~~~
rhino369
Yep, exactly. Google would never sink so low as to advertise.
~~~
gcb0
lol.
~~~
gcb0
lol at your downvotes.
just go to google.com on any browser other than chrome and you see a huge
banner asking to install google chrome and experience a faster web or
something.
then came back here and tell me how that is not advertising.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Portal Released For Steam On Linux - mindstab
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM2Mzk
======
fragsworth
Steam is now the de-facto "app store" of the PC as far as games go, which was
no small feat. It took them more than 10 years to get to this point and it's
now in jeopardy.
With Google and Apple already controlling the mobile app stores, various
console manufacturers controlling their own ecosystems, and Microsoft
attempting to abandon their "open" Windows (so they can run their own app
store) - the industry is shifting into a position of hardware/OS
manufacturers/monopolies taking massive cuts (30%) from the software market.
Valve, without any hardware of their own, but a very large PC app store with a
significant user base, really has nowhere else to turn. Gabe himself has
expressed quite a bit of dismay over Microsoft's recent decisions.
I expect them to use everything in their power to make Linux become a
mainstream thing. They're going to port all of their own games to Linux, and I
expect at some point there will be Linux-only discounts for their games.
I really hope Microsoft underestimated their power, and that Valve is capable
of doing this. It'll be better for all of us. The software industry is heading
in very bad directions, and this is at least a glimmer of hope.
~~~
Skoofoo
I would sympathize with Valve if they didn't completely ignore Linux before
acting like the Linux community's best friend when it became apparent that
they had nowhere else to turn to [1]. Like many, I'm a fan of their games and
their flat management, but they have a history of being as short-sighted and
callous as EA and I wish more people would see that [2].
I have a lot more respect for the people behind Humble Bundle/Wolfire, who
went out of their way to support Linux long before it was cool [3]. Plus they
don't force DRM middleware on you.
[1] <http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/>
[2] <http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/valve-tricked-h/>
[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugaru>
~~~
Afforess
What? Humble BundLe totally sold out their integrity after they let THQ sell
their games with the Humble Bundle brand, without linux versions and with DRM.
[1] [http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-humble-thq-
bu...](http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-humble-thq-bundle-loses-
indie-games-adds-drm-and-is-a-step-backward-for)
[2] [http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-
thre...](http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-threatens-to-
ruin-the-brands-reputation/)
~~~
rexignis
I think you're being very hyperbolic. They were very explicit saying the games
were Windows only and had DRM (Steam). It was its own isolated bundle.
------
rinon
Now if we can only get semi-stable, long-term graphics driver support for
Linux to be able to play these games. I think there may be light at the end of
that tunnel, since hardware vendors seem to be providing more support for
Linux now.
~~~
hdra
when that day comes, I am sure many would switch to Linux, especially among
the developers. In the past few years using Windows, I have stopped thinking
about device drivers at all, I just expected them to work. I am looking
forward to the day where this comes to desktop Linux.
~~~
girvo
I've had the completely opposite experience. Windows is where I have to go
hunting around for drivers on vendors crappy FTP servers.
Linux on the other hand, over the past 7 years I've been running it, works
OOTB for all hardware I've ever thrown at it, especially lately.
Weird.
~~~
TikiTDO
What area do you work in though?
~~~
girvo
These are my personal laptops I'm talking about :)
FWIW, I'm a web developer, but I've been playing with Linux since I was 11
years old (2001).
------
chongli
Sweet. Now hopefully they bring DOTA2 over next. That game will lead to a ton
of Linux switchers!
~~~
fla
Indeed. However, it must be said that DOTA2 runs perfectly with OpenGL through
wine on a decent machine . Thanks Valve!
use these options : "-gl -window -novid -noborder -w 1920 -h 1080"
~~~
aeflash
O_O. You just obviated my last reason for having windows on my home desktop.
------
KerrickStaley
The article is incorrect: Portal 2 is not available, only the original Portal.
------
loser777
Yet another reason to lament the lack of decent mouse driver support in
GNU/Linux. As long as I have to relearn how to move my mouse in order to play
a game, I'm going to keep a Windows box handy for games.
~~~
tomrod
I don't follow?
~~~
loser777
I play games at 1600cpi with a specific mouse with no acceleration. Even with
the supposed fixes that disable acceleration in GNU/Linux, I don't get the
same cursor response with my mouse that I would in Windows. In addition, my
mouse's cpi can only be set to 1600 in software. This is especially
problematic as I tend to play games where mouse accuracy is very important.
~~~
philsnow
Watch out guys, we're dealing with a--
okay, just color me surprised that anybody needs that much accuracy. I stopped
playing shooter games in ~2004.
~~~
ricardobeat
You stopped playing shooter games in 2004.
~~~
philsnow
Yes, I said that.
s/surprised/bemused/, I suppose. AAA games are srsbzns.
------
Nursie
I played portal via steam on Linux years ago!
(OK so that was wine, but it worked pretty well :)
~~~
momokatte
I did too! In a little window in the middle of my screen. Sometimes the game
would freeze for a second or two to load a sound effect.
Tonight I played the first half of the linux beta at 1920X1080 resolution and
it just made me giddy. I'd been waiting a long time for this day.
~~~
Nursie
Really?
I had it running fullscreen and pretty perfectly. Fullscreen was 1280x800,
mind. But it worked fine. L4D and L4D2 I've had working too.
------
nathanb
OK, it bothers me when people say "Steam on Linux".
It's really "Steam on Ubuntu". Some other distros are supported with 32-bit
only packages, but if you're running a 64-bit OS you need .deb package
support.
I haven't installed 32-bit support on any Linux system I've provisioned this
decade. Even corporate IT at my job, who are normally borderline incompetent
at providing a workable environment, have native 64-bit packages for
everything I use.
So when Steam (and Skype, and so on) gets released "for Linux", I just sigh
and shake my head.
I'm a Linux user. And I can't run your program. Don't tell me it's "for" me.
~~~
jeltz
There has been some progress here. Steam has been repackaged for several other
distributions.
<http://packages.debian.org/experimental/steam>
<https://www.archlinux.org/packages/multilib/x86_64/steam/>
~~~
nathanb
Yes...for instance, I use Arch Linux. 64-bit. With no 32-bit support.
I want to support Steam on Linux because I think it's a good thing. But I
don't want to install 32-bit support in order to do so.
I realize that I'm complaining about something that has an easy workaround I'm
refusing to use. But it's weird that they'll support 64-bit Ubuntu and not
64-bit anything else.
------
stephengillie
How long before Steam for Android? And Portal for Android?
~~~
Shorel
Steam for Android? What for?
Android already has a game store. It doesn't make any business sense for Valve
to try to compete with Google Play Store.
About Portal: It has to be profitable enough to justify the huge cost of
porting the game to Android. The same for any other game.
~~~
gizmo686
Ubuntu also already has an app store (Which does support paid apps).
------
gizbot
It's the slow move from the Operating System to the GPU code; most games find
Windows as much a hinderance as a help. I wonder if MS will try to do
something useful to woo game developers more towards the Windows platform?
~~~
chc
PC game developers could hardly be wooed any further in that direction. A game
being released for Linux two years after Windows is hardly an imminent threat.
~~~
StavrosK
It's not a matter of when it was released, but that it's an indication that
Valve is porting its Source engine to Linux. It looks like Future Valve games
are going to be released on all three platforms simultaneously, which is a
pretty big win for Linux.
~~~
chc
That was my impression when Valve started porting Steam, but then Dota 2 came
along and proved us wrong.
~~~
AimHere
Dota2 hasn't even been released yet. People are still playing a test version.
It's still possible (though unlikely) for a simultaneous Windows/Mac/Linux
release!
~~~
chc
Meh, that's a weird nomenclature game. It's beta like Google Maps was for the
first six years of its life. Valve is selling and running international
tournaments on this "open beta." Like, it may say "beta," but it is
_definitely_ released. You can go on Steam and buy it right now. They even
have a separate test client in addition to the nominally "beta" normal client.
------
u2328
Pretty cool! Thanks Valve!
------
stevejb
Excellent! Looking forward to this. As of 17:28 PDT it does not seem
available.
~~~
RunningDroid
It is available, they just haven't changed the store page to say it is yet.
~~~
stevejb
I get "Portal 2 is not available on your current platform" which is Ubuntu.
~~~
RunningDroid
Sorry, I had assumed you meant Portal 1. According to SteamDB Portal 2 is
still only available for Windows and Mac.
Portal 2 page on SteamDB: <http://steamdb.info/app/620/>
------
flabbergasted
I'm shocked! Valve doesn't accept bitcoin as a payment option? :)
~~~
zanny
Oh gosh the speculative bubble money you could make off _that_ happening.
------
mekpro
I'm so GLaD !
------
shock
yum!
------
gourlaysama
finally!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Basic Command-Line Data Processing in Linux - symkat
http://symkat.com/1/five-text-processing-tools-you-should-know/
======
pbrumm
Even after using linux command line for years it is always useful to see how
others use it. I tend to overuse perl regex's to massage the data how I want
it and underuse awk.
my norm is cat file | perl -p -e "s/. _from ([0-9\\.]+) ._ /\1/g" to get the
ip out of the same datafile.
regex's seem to help with messy data or data that contains inconsistent
delimiters.
(some of the stars got stripped by HN so the above won't work)
~~~
nitrogen
_(some of the stars got stripped by HN so the above won't work)_
Try putting a couple of spaces in front of your code line, like this:
cat file | perl -p -e "s/.*from ([0-9\.]+).*/\1/g"
See <http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc>
Edit: for simple regexes, sed works well, too, and probably loads slightly
faster than perl.
------
j_baker
I just learned about another one a couple of days ago: cut. Can't believe I
never knew of its existence.
Also, for programmers, I'd recommend ack over grep.
~~~
tsmall
Thanks for the tip. I'd never heard of that one either. It seems like a
simpler awk, or at least small subset of awk.
------
schm00
I started a wikibook on this stuff a few years back. Includes material on
inline perl, gnuplot and has lots of examples. Check out:
[http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ad_Hoc_Data_Analysis_From_The_U...](http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ad_Hoc_Data_Analysis_From_The_Unix_Command_Line)
~~~
Mod_daniel
So very cool! Thank you for posting.
------
wonderzombie
For my part, I don't use awk for anything more complicated than one-liners. I
used it for a while, stopped when I was working on something else, and forgot
all the awk-specific stuff.
My MO these days is if it's anything more complicated than an awk one-liner
like awk '{print $2 " " $NF}', I'll use Python or, lately, Ruby. (Perl would
be fine, too, if I used it in other contexts often enough.)
That said, there's nothing quite like, well, _programming_ your environment.
The extent to which you can manipulate files, directories, and text in *nix
right out of the box makes me feel privileged to understand it. I can remember
a time when renaming a bunch of images en masse seemed tantalizing but out of
reach. I've since learned quite a bit, and even though it's relatively mundane
now, it still feels magical. Upthread, someone called it "moving mountains."
That's precisely it, and I love it.
Yes, yes. I'm a complete and utter nerd, etc.
------
muyyatin
It's also useful to know that 'sort -u' removes duplicates.
~~~
jimbokun
Although it was important to use the -c flag on uniq for this particular
problem, which is not available with "sort -u."
Which I guess just goes to reinforce the Unix philosophy of tools that do one
job and do it well.
------
mturmon
They forgot sed.
------
bobf
As others have mentioned, tr and cut are extremely useful. Although I had
overlooked them in the past, expand/unexpand are also very useful! They
convert tabs to spaces, or spaces to tabs. Of course there are other ways to
do that, like substituting with sed, translating with tr, or printing tabbed
data using $1/$2/etc. with awk... they just aren't as simple.
------
KC8ZKF
See also "Opening the software toolbox" by Arnold Robbins, part of the GNU
Coreutils documentation.
[http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Openi...](http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Opening-
the-software-toolbox.html#Opening-the-software-toolbox)
~~~
ludwigvan
GNU Coreutils documentation as a whole is very useful.
<http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/> To read on the command line,
try:
info coreutils
Also see,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Core_Utilities>
------
ddelony
Hacker News readers probably have at least a passing familiarity with
Unix/Linux, but it's still refreshing to be reminded that you can move
mountains with short commands.
~~~
kd0amg
And even for someone who knows all of this, knowing a good guide makes it easy
to handle requests for help (often preemptively). This is one I can (and just
did) send to a friend who's less familiar with Unix.
------
Andrew-Dufresne
I think paste (merge lines of files) also deserves mention. Besides that, I
have found tail and column to be extremely useful.
------
obsessive1
I've been using Linux for a while now, and I never thought about how powerful
those simple commands can be.
------
riffraff
sinc people already pointed out the missing ack & comm, I'll add: no love for
tr?
------
caf
Best textutil you probably haven't heard of (or have forgotten about): comm(1)
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
I find "diff -y" more intuitive, but I didn't know comm and will explore
potential uses.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Curve.app – All Your Cards in One – Raises $55m in Series B - franze
https://discover.curve.app/a/curve-raises-55m-series-b-funding
======
sauravt
Does anyone know how this works in the backend ?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Eric 'ESR' Raymond Philly JUG presentation - fecak
http://youtu.be/1b17ggwkR60
======
commandar
I'm honestly not sure how I feel about his argument that the GPL is no longer
needed. While I'm more sympathetic with BSD licensing now than I was 10 years
ago, I do think that the GPL still makes a lot of sense for infrastructure-
type projects.
My gut feeling is that his position that the existence of the internet makes
concerns about the whims of any given legal jurisdiction irrelevant is more
than a bit naive.
~~~
gonzo
I think his problem with the GPL is that it allows "open source" project
owners to constructively restrict commercial use (by offering a separatel-
licensed (non-GPL) version.)
I also openly question the truth of his statement that he was an early reader
of the JVM specification.
~~~
jiggy2011
I have no idea , but one of ESR's favorite topics of conversation seems to be
bigging up how important he thinks he is.
~~~
fecak
I assume you watched the video? (I recorded and posted it) Personally, I
actually thought he was pretty modest overall. He did mention his academic
background and 'hacker credentials' when he was discussing functional
programming languages and Haskell in particular, but other than that I didn't
think he came across like he was promoting himself. I've been running this
users' group for 12 years and I've seen much bigger egos from people who
didn't have ESR's credentials.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask YC: DDOS Protection? - e1ven
Some friends of mine have been running into an issue with massive DDOS attacks, primarily massive junk UDP traffic.<p>Right now, they're shunning IP ranges as fast as we can, but things change quickly, and often at night.<p>I saw the discussion at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=106020 , which took place just under a year ago, but I'd love any advice.<p>I know that there are companies such as prolexic and Gigenet can offer substantial improvements, if I understand correctly, by re-routing our traffic through them, and then on to us.<p>Are there any companies that HN readers have worked with? What sort of pricing were you hit with? One quote I found online had suggested $400/Mbps/month.<p>Are there any programmatic solutions to maintaining a shun list? I could script something to blindly telnet in, but it seems like there's got to be boxed solutions for this.<p>The problem with most inspection techniques is by the time we accept the packet and start examining it, it's too late, and we start to get overloaded.<p>Any advice would be appreciated.
======
lazyant
If you are running Linux then iptables (netfilter) can be your friend. Look
into the --limit option.
The banning can be made automatically with a script like
<http://deflate.medialayer.com/>
Also they should be able to talk to the hosting company / data center; they
may be able to provide the service filtering the DoD traffic right there.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Reddit Founders' YC Application - ptn
http://alexisohanian.com/our-y-combinator-summer-05-application-what-w
======
mikeryan
So I have to wonder if this application would have gotten anywhere if pg
hadn't personally met these guys previously?
ie. is this really a sample of a "winning" YC application?
~~~
ig1
I imagine the quality of applicants to YC has gone up considerably in the last
five years, and many of the applicants who were selected then may well have
struggled to get through the current rounds.
------
nandemo
> _We are going to build an infrastructure that will allow consumers to order
> food from their cell phones (via a text-interface, rather than voice), drive
> to the restaurant and pick up their order._
That sounds like a much more promising business than "a site where users
submit news and sites, vote them up and write comments about them". I don't
mean this is in a snarky way, I'm a reddit user too. Am I missing something?
~~~
psawaya
This was like five years ago, before mobile internet was available to most
consumers. Also, writing mobile apps before the App Store was a real pain, and
involved dealing directly with carriers, I believe.
It was a good idea, just ahead of its time.
~~~
ergo98
_This was like five years ago, before mobile internet was available to most
consumers. Also, writing mobile apps before the App Store was a real pain, and
involved dealing directly with carriers, I believe._
J2ME apps involved no carrier participation (though often you had to target
all of the profiles), and most devices, including standard Nokia feature
phones, could run it. Windows Mobile apps...well that was always completely
open and with little carrier control.
And of course...WAP. Largely forgotten now, but the Gopher-like WAP was usable
on pretty much every feature phone, optimized for limited displays and input
technologies. It was a giant dud for a variety of reasons, but it was always
an option back to the turn of the century. And you didn't need a data plan,
which remains the #1 impediment to the mobile revolution, though you did get
charged usurious rates for the packets you did use.
~~~
city41
But how many people really used these things? I consider myself pretty techy
and I can count on one hand the number of J2ME apps I've used (heck, I can use
my other hand to count the number of times I used them).
------
wallflower
I like Steve's answer: "Steve: Ten years from now I hope that we would have
either sold the company for gazillions of dollars, or realized we could not do
so and tried to come up with something new."
The application content seems remarkably normal. Even the Restaurant idea.
Nothing stands out other than the 'Animal' question. Like, within the realm of
most of us at HN (even if the quantity of YC applications has raised the bar
since Summer 2005). Thanks for posting this.
------
karzeem
PG, when you read this did you remember them as the guys who met you after
your talk in Cambridge?
------
fbnt
I just realized that Alexis = Reddit founder = kn0thing = the author of this
-> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isk88nT0sRY>
That is one of my favourite youtubes. Big kudos! I couldn't stop laughing the
first time I watched it. It's amazing how most of it still applies after ~5
years
~~~
kn0thing
The jig is up!
------
pclark
It's interesting to see how the application form has evolved.
~~~
ciscoriordan
They used to ask for your Slashdot username!
~~~
ilovecomputers
Now what do they ask for?
~~~
zck
From <http://news.ycombinator.com/w2011form> :
>For each founder, please list: YC username; ... personal url, github url,
facebook id, twitter id;...
~~~
younata
"Sorry, the application deadline has passed."
Edit: Anyone have a copy of it?
~~~
jackowayed
You can still get to the application form to apply late, but they seem to do
some session stuff making the direct link not work (which means you have to
acknowledge that you're applying late).
Anyway, go here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/apply>
Click "apply late". Click "Edit your application online" (number 3).
------
piers
So how on earth did it get from that to what is currently reddit?
~~~
kn0thing
When PG offered us a chance to be in YC, we agreed to hop off the train in CT
and grab the next one back to Boston to brainstorm with him about a new idea.
From that ~1hr conversation came the idea for reddit. PG summed it up well: we
were building a "front page of the web."
~~~
alexophile
Sounds like a great scene for the Social Network 2: The Upvoting.
~~~
ilovecomputers
Way ahead of you. I wrote the script after spending 30 min reading blog posts
that interview reddit founders. Than I realized the movie wasn't Hollywood
enough, so I added frat parties, cocaine, and made PG 30 years younger and
more eccentric and more of a ladies man.
I think I'm on to a blockbuster here. Does YCombinator invest in film
productions?
~~~
kn0thing
Please let me be played by Christopher Walken.
~~~
eru
If you add a dance routine, he may even do it for free. At least he did so for
Weapon of Choice.
------
jmtame
Made me laugh: "animals? were a freaking zoo!"
------
tomjen3
this is actually pretty close to an already existing service in Denmark called
just-eat.dk, except it focuses mostly on fast-food, and you order over the
internet.
So pg missed the boat on this one. Fortunately I haven't seen this anywhere in
the us and it will take some times before these guys will branch out of the
country, if at all.
~~~
mseebach
Just Eat is expanding pretty aggressively, currently in eight countries, UK is
the largest. <http://www.just-eat.com/>
~~~
ojilles
From personal experience (lived in 3 Just-eat.com "countries") I would say
Denmark is the biggest. In the cities, there's a really high coverage of
restaurants -- and not just fast-food either.
The problem for restaurants is pretty interesting, and reminds me of the
disintermediation RoundTable is doing in the US.
------
JoeBracken
This supports that investors invest in the founders and not the idea. This
isn't the most compelling application/idea however the founders made an
impression and that got them a slot.
------
wcarss
I actually have been planning to send an application in with this exact idea.
I came to the site today to check in case the next application round is open,
and to conceivably fill an application out with this information in it.
I'm not sure what to do, at this point. We still think this would be a success
but, good god.
Edit: In the opinion of anyone reading this; do you think it's a better idea
to put our application in as planned (using this exact idea...), or to try to
differentiate ourselves somehow?
------
meterplech
I find the number of poeople who end up not working on the startup
interesting. We also saw that on a few of the other yc posted apps recently.
As a college senior I try to put myself in their shoes. I think a good
barometer for startup success could be how good the offers they are willing to
turn down to start it. If nothing else, the need to validate their decision
could add extra motivation
------
callmeed
This is totally a service I've discussed building recently. With 3rd party
payment aggregation, you could totally take payment and dispurse funds to
restaurants fairly easily.
Could do native iOS/droid apps or even SMS ordering with twilio
------
nutjob123
Interesting idea for the time. God aweful business plan though. I hope that
they had a thorough document with much more market reaserch before courting
investors.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Leave your ego at the door and master your tools - abossy
http://adambossy.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/leave-your-ego-at-the-door-and-master-your-tools/
======
noonespecial
_I constantly saw kids fumbling with the random crap that came with the KDE
installation: KWrite, Kate, pico, nano. Not just the young ‘uns. Juniors and
seniors, also. It made me sick to my stomach._
Far from "random crap" kate turned out to be the silver lining surprise that
finally propelled my switch from gnome to KDE.
~~~
abossy
Really!? Can you elaborate? I am interested specifically in what attracted you
to the product.
I am obviously not seeing beyond the emacs/vi wall.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Gmail really wants me to say yes - awinter-py
https://abe-winter.github.io/2019/05/21/yes-gmail-yes.html
======
prlambert
I was the PM on this feature (and these are my views not Googles, as per
normal). The truth is actually much more banal. Most people are just really
positive over email.
The model is trained to offer reply suggestions that have the highest chance
of being accepted, from a large whitelist of the most common short replies.
The whitelist contains many negative options. We're optimizing for click
through rate. That's it. There's no editorial judgement, definitely not "‘no’
struck someone as too negative and they had to take it out."
We actually experimented with intentionally inserting more negative options to
increase diversity. Doing this reliably causes a hit to our metrics.
Discovering this made me pretty happy about the world. Most people are
generally pretty friendly to one another (at least over email!).
~~~
zestyping
The truth may be banal, but the impact is not. That's the problem with
technology. So often, there's no ill intent in the design decisions, but at
scale, the effects can be harmful, even massively harmful.
> We're optimizing for click through rate. That's it. There's no editorial
> judgement...
Something that all of us as technologists need to learn is that this IS an
editorial judgement. We do not get to disclaim responsibility just because we
delegated that responsibility to an algorithm. It is we who delegated it, we
who chose the algorithm and the metrics, and we who are responsible.
"We're optimizing for click through rate" is how we got the proliferation of
misinformation on Facebook. It's how we got
[https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1037831503101579264](https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1037831503101579264).
It's how we got Pizzagate.
"We're optimizing for click through rate" is simply not good enough in 2019.
We could claim to be naive in 2000, perhaps even 2010. But today? We all know
we're playing with fire now, and it doesn't much matter that of course we
didn't MEAN to burn the house down. What matters is that we don't give lit
matches to children and we know how to not set the house on fire.
~~~
prlambert
I agree and good point on the broader meaning of editorial judgement. If we
had seen any negative impact such as the FB/YouTube examples we would
absolutely take that into account. I haven't seen anything remotely like yet
with regard to smart reply but would want to be the first to see it if it
exists.
~~~
zestyping
Your willingness to use "we're optimizing for click through rate" as a defense
is quite frightening to me, though.
Someone who thinks "We're optimizing for click through rate" is morally
neutral is not qualified to be making these decisions, just as someone who
thinks giving lit matches to children is morally neutral is not qualified to
be a fire marshal.
Would you agree?
~~~
foldingmoney
It's a pretty long journey from 'our algorithm chooses which auto-replies to
offer you based on which have the highest probability of being selected' to
giving lit matches to children.
I'm afraid to ask your opinion of SwiftKey's autocomplete.
~~~
zestyping
That's not quite what I'm saying, though. My concern is not with stating the
fact that the algorithm uses this metric. My concern is with presenting the
decision to use this metric as morally neutral.
If you think that giving lit matches to children is morally neutral, you
probably either don't understand how dangerous fire is or don't understand how
unpredictable children can be. That's the point of the analogy.
~~~
foldingmoney
I don't know what could be more morally neutral than 'we offer the suggestions
that you've shown us you're most likely to want to use.' Anything else would
be trying to put _their_ words in people's mouths.
And let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a tool that offers an
automatic one to three-word email response for when you're too lazy to
actually reply. The stakes are about as low as they come.
~~~
dTal
Pretty much the entire history of progressivism is a long, slow dawning
realization that it's not harmless to treat individuals on the basis of group
statistics, for one group category after another. Part of the problem is
feedback loops - you can inadvertently amplify subtle perturbations by feeding
them back to people. For example, it might seem harmless to subtly nudge a
woman away from a career in STEM, on the basis that women are rare in STEM and
therefore they probably won't enjoy it. But this action, repeated across
millions of people, creates the pattern that you are reacting to. I think the
principle probably generalizes to "everyone", not just "women" and "black
people".
In the case of autocomplete suggestions, they can still cause harm even when
they're statistically likely. What do you think Google would autosuggest for
"Blacks are...", if it were around in 1950? What would the statistics on the
completion of that sentence look like? And would the effect of someone seeing
that list be 100% neutral - or would it subtly nudge them?
There's nothing obviously harmful with the specifics of GMail's auto-
suggestions now. But the _principle_ of 'we offer the suggestions that you've
shown us you're most likely to want to use' is _not_ morally neutral.
~~~
foldingmoney
We're talking about auto suggestions along the lines of 'Yes, I have', 'no, I
haven't', 'sounds good!', 'yum!'.
I'm not arguing against your principles necessarily, but deploying the
argument where it's really not warranted is a form of crying wolf and turns
people against it.
And as an aside, at my university the only time I ever saw any recruiting
material for STEM, it was along the lines of 'Scholarships for women in STEM'.
~~~
dTal
It's not a given that it's not warranted:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19978313](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19978313)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19978300](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19978300)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19978171](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19978171)
But the point is, whether this particular case is a problem or not, the
general attitude that led to its development _is_ a problem, and we're using
this opportunity to discuss that (even though the original article is not very
coherent).
~~~
foldingmoney
I think the general attitude of being willfully blind to fundamental
distinctions between things that are only superficially similar and
shoehorning issue debates in where they don't belong is ultimately unhelpful
for the debate over what is, elsewhere, an important issue.
------
cakoose
Another explanation: "no" responses require more information.
If you are saying yes, then that's basically all you need to say. If you're
saying no, you usually also provide a reason, so you probably wouldn't use any
of the short, generic "no" responses Gmail would come up with.
~~~
dsl
This was my initial reaction. Every time I use the suggested replies feature
it is in the affirmative, because that is an easy response. No takes some
wordsmithing I'd rather do myself.
------
ghayes
I’m a little... confused, is this blog post informed by one data point and
then extrapolates a set of conclusions / reasons / motives? I can understand
the sentiments of the article and poster, but I am not convinced of the
premises that Gmail always prepares affirmative responses, and I’d love to see
more data on that point specifically.
~~~
aeternus
I'm also not convinced. I frequently see Gmail suggestions that I would not
consider positive, for instance: I'm not interested. What is this about? Who
are you?
------
theamk
> The day that 20% of consumers put a price tag on privacy, freemium is over
> and privacy is back.
It's ironic coming from person with @gmail.com email. Fastmail's service is
$5/month, but they chose the free one which harvests their data instead.
If even the privacy advocates are not using their own advice, I doubt freemium
is going to be over anytime soon.
~~~
jaabe
I use gmail and I value privacy, I pay for g-suite though.
I tried all of them, fastmail, protonmail, tutanota, Runbox and a few others,
and none of them came close to using gmail. So I figured, what the hell,
g-suite is around the same price and it gets me 30gb of cloud storage as well.
I wish google was a little more clear on where the privacy starts and ends
though. Like if you want to use google home with a g-suite, you have to enable
a bunch of tracking. I know this has to do with the fact that google wants to
separate business from personal use, but really, I don’t want two e-mails.
~~~
Semaphor
Just out of interest, what do you prefer with gmail over fastmail? I find
using FM to be a much better experience.
~~~
jaabe
Spam, I got a lot of it on fastmail and even though I kept flagging it as
spam, it kept coming.
The mobile client, I really like the gmail iOS client. I think fastmail was
better than the native iOS mail client, but I just really like the gmail one.
Google docs, photos and drive are nice additions, but it’s mainly the first
two.
~~~
Semaphor
I keep reading about the spam problem. Can't confirm that for me. I extremely
rarely get spam in my inbox while on gmail I got about the same amounts but
also quite a few false positives.
The mobile client: I don't know the iOS client but urgh. The Android FM client
is pretty lame :D Luckily, I rarely use it.
I use next cloud for all docs, images, etc. and neither has an integration so
that's a toss-up for me ;)
~~~
jaabe
When you say gmail, do you mean gmail or g-suite? Because my gmail gets a lot
of spam, but my g-suite doesn’t.
~~~
Semaphor
I meant gmail. I didn't even know there were differences like that between
them. I think when I switched to FM, G-Suite was business only.
~~~
jaabe
I think it’s mostly still business, but a lot of the things I do business wise
correlate with a lot of things I do personally, so it blends together rather
nice.
Now I prefer the mix, I can certainly understand people who prefer the
separation.
------
francescovv
OP touches on a slightly tangential topic:
This is kind of meta because I’ve turned this
autocomplete feature off, I’m sure of it.
Did I just do it on my phone? Did my wifi
blip so the AJAX didn’t work? I certainly
didn’t turn it on.
This strike home hard for me, as a pervasive problem. So many tech companies
conveniently "forget" about user preferences all the time.
For example, on my kobo e-reader, I'm positive I've disabled auto-update. And
yet, one day few weeks ago it auto-updated and the new version stopped
displaying side-loaded .epub files (from project Guttenberg). No rollback, no
appeal. Seller's 2-year warranty has recently expired. Now essentially I have
a modestly expensive semi-brick that will only let me read two titles
purchased via kobo store, and nothing else
~~~
tomglynch
I have an issue with something similar. I often get emails from email lists
where I'm pretty sure I have previously unsubscribed. But I can never be sure
if I actually did and they're ignoring it, or if I unsubscribed from something
else.
------
skybrian
This is the new superstition of the digital age: instead of saying "huh,
that's funny" when some autocomplete suggestions strike you as odd, invent a
myth about your personal relationship to the gods of computing (the big tech
firms) to explain it.
There are a lot of things about the computers we use that we simply don't
understand unless someone tells us (because we weren't involved and don't have
access to the code) and yet I guess many people want to pretend that they know
what's going on?
------
enriquto
> Works for me. | I'm down. | Absolutely.
As a non-native English speaker these sentences are very confusing to me. I'm
not used to English in an informal setting, and they seem overly informal
answers with implied meanings.
~~~
saagarjha
They're relatively informal, but they all generally mean "yes" and I would not
be against using a response like this when replying to a friend or close
acquaintance.
~~~
enriquto
Wait, does "I'm down" mean "yes" ? I thought it means "I'm a bit depressed".
~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
Yes, although as a Brit I see this as an Americanism, it's certainly not
common usage here. I believe it's generally used when being invited to an
event for example -
"Do you want to come bowling with us on Friday?"
"I'm down"
However, it's not always interchangeable with "yes" \- for example:
"Did you get the server migration finished over the weekend?"
"I'm down"
... Would be completely wrong.
------
a_imho
_Now I think black mirror a little, but occam’s razor still prefers
incompetence to malice._
Hanlon's razor.
------
owenwil
I don’t really understand why the author is being annoyed about a model that
takes time to figure things out based on what it learns from the user. I use
these buttons all the time, and they’ve grown to be more useful/accurate as
things go on–it’s definitely something I would be sad to lose.
------
aj7
I use those prompts more and more. In business communications almost
exclusively. I had to return a contract to my termite guy. Gmail guessed right
twice.
------
nullc
> You can taste the dank PM sweat dripping from the prompt that instead of
> saying ‘Yes’, ‘Later’, ‘Never ask me again’, says ‘Yes forever’, ‘Maybe
> later’. Sooner or later I’m going to slip and tap yes by accident and then
> some app will get microphone access on my phone.
This is exactly how 'enhanced' location access worked on android for years. It
would actually grey out "no" option if you told it to save the choice!
But on the subject, there was actually a publication on the effort it took to
get this system to not just return minor variations of the same answer.
------
preordained
Not to mention always asking me for more information for "recovery..." Get out
of my life. I want you for email (for the moment anyhow) and nothing more,
that's exactly how I want it, just back off. Even as I say this...I think I
really do need to switch to an email provider that understands boundaries,
paid or otherwise.
~~~
creato
I think this is a little over the top. They're pushy about this because they
want people to have an account recovery method so people can recover their
account if necessary. It really is important to them for that reason. This is
probably any online services' single biggest source of customer service
headaches: people forgetting/losing their credentials and needing the account
unlocked. This is a really problematic thing for companies to deal with
because any "human" customer service solution is both expensive but more
importantly, very vulnerable to social engineering attacks.
------
yeleti
My life is locked into one gmail account. All my notifications, passwords,
bank statements, invoices, to and fro emails from exes, etc. etc. come to this
gmail account. I have to rewind too much of my time to go to every place that
uses my gmail account and change it. I can't do it. I'm locked in for life.
~~~
taneq
And now think what would happen to you if your Gmail account was locked. No
recourse, no response except form mails saying "your account is banned because
it's banned." No way to recover any other account using it as recovery mail.
No way to access your records or email history. Maybe locked out of your phone
too. You're boned.
That's what made me extract myself from Gmail. I created my new email address
and forwarded my Gmail account to it, and then for every email coming to the
Gmail address I updated the sender with my new address. It took me about six
months before all my important mail was using my new address, but it actually
wasn't that hard and I feel hugely less vulnerable to Google's whims.
Edit: At the same time I also started using a proper password manager, making
me again much less vulnerable to losing an email account because I no longer
rely on resetting passwords to get into my multifarious online accounts.
~~~
kkarakk
If your account is banned do your auto reply(canned responses) stop working?
Coz that would be a proper stop gap to tell important people(job
offers/contact requests for eg) to your website/email you actually use etc.
~~~
eridius
If your account is banned how would you even set up an auto-reply to tell
people about your new email?
~~~
creatornator
Presumably it would be set up before-hand? If you preferred the other email,
you might deprecate the gmail account and set up an auto-reply for all traffic
to update contact information. It would require giving up gmail early. The
question would be if auto-reply keeps working after being banned
------
guyromm
does anyone remember this little gem? [http://www.linehollis.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/08/capture...](http://www.linehollis.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/08/capture_24072016_173706-cropped-e1473084382629.png)
------
colordrops
> Why am I not more pissed about this? I think because ‘maybe yes forever
> later’ isn’t a sign of G’s dominance or power over my life, it’s a sign that
> they’re afraid of losing it all and are employing dark patterns to hold on
> to me. And like most strategies conceived in desperation, it has a 50/50
> chance of backfiring and driving people away.
This is too optimistic. Google has got a grip on consumers and they will
certainly not be driven away by dark patterned prompts. Anyway it's definitely
not 50/50.
------
kkarakk
>A lot of ML still comes down to feature engineering i.e. it’s art as much as
science.
Is it though? Or has this just become the polite way of saying "you don't know
what you're doing but I - abe the artistic - do?"
------
gcb0
Sounds good! Thanks.
------
bananaheel
I stopped using gmail because of this feature.
------
scarejunba
This feature is great. Lots of pearl clutching going on. Just type 'No thanks'
or whatever if you don't want to go, dude. Seriously.
I have this pet theory that the West has achieved safety and peace of such a
degree that people have to box shadows to get that little bit of thrill in
their lives. No, there's no scary dystopia coming. You've just got to chill.
This is like me panicking that Jetbrains wants me to print out secrets to
stdout because I typed out sout<tab> while writing something handling a
secret. My god! They must be moving us to a scary dystopia where everyone's
plaintext password is in logs somewhere where Jetbrains can steal it!
~~~
fenwick67
Your comment is a long-winded equivalent of "who cares".
~~~
archon810
And it should be at the top of this discussion thread.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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