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Stream Control Transmission Protocol - doener
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_Control_Transmission_Protocol
======
karmakaze
SCTP was implemented in Java7 and I considered using it then to use one
connection, get multiple streams without head-of-line blocking. Never did get
real opportunity to use it. SCTP wasn't widely adopted.
Now we have HTTP/3 (QUIC) which solves that and more.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What was your most successful project invented under the shower? - modinfo
======
modinfo
10 years ago, in the shower, I made a project to create own user badges on one
Polish portal, even the portal administrator helped me to create better
design.
At that time my MySQL database had more than 600 mb :D, which is about 135
thousand users.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN:Opinions on Hashicorp Nomad vs. Kubernetes? - rapphil
I love Hashicorp products/tools. They are simple and intuitive to use/configure and they do one thing very well. I love the fact that each product is usually a single binary that is the client/server and command line tool. What change are the parameters passed to the binary when executing it.<p>I have experience with Consul, Vault and Nomad.<p>Due to security and performance reasons, we need to have most of our services hosted on premises.<p>I've been using a on-premise Nomad deployment in a bunch of greenfield projects and so far I'm very satisfied on how well it integrates with Consul/Fabio/Vault and how simple is to operate the cluster.<p>We are not using any fancy feature and we are basically using Nomad to decouple the Software from the hardware where the Software runs. The deployment times are faster than using ansible and we can leave the scheduler to decide where the software should be deployed. Nomad also supports scheduling of raw commands.<p>Lastly, Nomad, when integrated with Consul/Fabio works in a multi-datacenter/multi-site topology out of box. This is specially important for us.<p>However due to the buzz around Kubernetes I'm afraid of making the wrong choice in the long term and invest time in something that will eventually die or become irrelevant. There is also much more information available about Kubernetes than Nomad.<p>On the other hand, I fell that Kubernetes is a bit more complex to operate/maintain than Nomad. I might be wrong.<p>My questions would be:<p>- If you have a on-premises Kubernetes deployment, is there a lot of overhead in operating it? Can you tell me a little bit about some specific situations where the cluster required manual intervention?<p>- Do you use Kubernetes in a multi-data center/multi-site configuration? Any thoughts on that?<p>- Do you use Nomad, used in the past? What works/worked and what doesn't/didn't?
======
gigatexal
We run k8s on premises and it requires an ops team of ~8 people. Personally I
would have gone with a hosted and managed solution but we have become pretty
good at all the nuances of K8s and it gives us the flexibility to try new
things.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes - rbanffy
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737max-idUSKCN24Z2HK
======
Nacdor
Given the option, would anyone choose to book a trip on one of these new
Boeing aircraft rather than anything else? I know I wouldn't, my family
wouldn't, and none of the friends or co-workers I've discussed this with
would.
Something tells me airlines are going to be making it even more difficult to
determine which aircraft you'll be flying on when you book a ticket. As far as
I know they're not required to tell you, nor are they required to use the
aircraft listed at the time of booking (they can swap it at the last minute if
they want).
~~~
shajznnckfke
Even though this model has big design flaws and a relatively bad safety
record, the absolute level of risk is still pretty low. I knowingly expose
myself to larger risks in my day-to-day life. So I won’t lose any sleep over
booking a flight on this type of plane.
~~~
dimitrios1
This is not a good argument.
You can control this level of risk. Taking on any unnecessary risk when you
don't have to is not a wise choice.
~~~
TylerE
How are you getting to the airport? However the method, it's far more likely
to injure you than flying on a 737 MAX.
~~~
shock
> However the method, it's far more likely to injure you than flying on a 737
> MAX.
That depends. If you take a bus to go to the airport and it takes you an hour
to get there, then your flight also lasts an hour (for simplicity's sake), you
are almost 3 times more likely(on average) to die during the flight than you
are during the bus ride [0]. In terms of number of journeys by plane and bus,
for the same number of journeys you are 27 times more likely to die in a plane
accident.
People repeat the "plane is the safest way to travel" mantra, but it's only
true in terms of nr. of km traveled.
[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety)
~~~
curryst
Measuring the risk of travel in terms of hours seems largely pointless, unless
I'm missing something. It equates an hour bus ride with an hour plane ride,
which are not interchangeable, so it makes sense that the associated risks are
also not interchangeable.
You could account for the additional time it takes to go on a bus to adjust
for the longer duration of risk, but at that point it seems like you're just
approximating for risk per km.
~~~
caconym_
I think it makes a lot more sense to look at risk per time, because it's
basically the same thing as risk per trip, and that's what I really care
about.
If you tell me I can fly to Mars in a few days on a brachistochrone torchship
and it's safer per mile than any other mode of transport, you may be right,
and a few days cooped up in a cramped cabin might be a small price to pay for
such an exotic vacation destination, but that risk calculus is really very
misleading. The distance involved is so vast that per mile it could be an
absurdly low figure by any terrestrial standard while still carrying an
absurdly high (by the same standards) risk of death during the trip.
In other words, if the odds are e.g. 1 in 10 that the trip will kill me, I
don't give a shit how low the risk per mile is.
~~~
apendleton
This seems like a mode of comparison that's disconnected from actual utility.
The distance comparison lets me consider a scenario like "I live in
Washington, DC. I want to go to New York. I can choose to either get there by
plane or car, and I want to know which is safer." This seems like a real,
sensible thing to contemplate.
The time comparison is "I live in Washington, DC and want to go... to wherever
it is that happens to be an hour away from me by whatever mode of transport I
happen to be using (so, either New York or someplace outside of Baltimore) and
I want to know which is safer"... but I can't for the life of me fathom why
the second is a tradeoff anyone would actually be forced to consider. People
generally travel with the objective of getting from some specific place to
some other specific place.
~~~
ponker
This assumes that people decide the destination before deciding the mode of
transport. In my experience this isn't true, specifically with the 737 MAX. I
had a 4-night trip booked with my family to Seattle from San Francisco on a
737 MAX and cancelled it when all that shit went down. Rather than driving
that weekend to Seattle we drove to Yosemite because I wasn't going to drive
12 hours to Seattle. In terms of total travel time (time to drive to airport,
check in, and fly) the travel time was about the same to Yosemite as to
Seattle but the mileage was obviously much less.
------
mathogre
That's bullshit. The MAX aircraft are not the same as the earlier 737 line.
These should be completely certified as new aircraft, and my guess is they
would fail real certification. The required "design changes" are nothing. Not
only would I not want to fly on one of the MAX aircraft, I wouldn't want to
live underneath a procedure - departure, airway, approach - used by a MAX.
Go for it. Let them fly. 'Boeing has built so many, we can't let them fail!'
Uh huh. Political Sunk Cost.
~~~
ryndbfsrw
Add to this the meta-problem this creates. Right now, there's trust in the
industry to not cut corners which is one of the reasons so many choose to fly.
If that trust erodes (even slightly) it is difficult to gauge what the impact
would be. I remember an AA exec saying they make their profit on the last 4/5
people per flight. Combo of thin margins, high gearing and the industry is
exposed to even small shocks in demand.
------
kevin_thibedeau
They need to implement triple redundant AOA indicators. It's obscene that
these failure modes are even possible much less approved. Knowing there is a
disagreement just lets you know you are close to being fucked.
~~~
imglorp
Triple is not needed, just double with a redundant "disagree" alarm.
Once the pilot knows there's one bad AOA, they can lock out the bad one as an
input to the autopilot/MCAS, or hand fly without automation. Of course this is
all a bunch of new software and training though.
~~~
Someone1234
> they can lock out the bad one as an input to the MCAS
The 737 MAX didn't support that as delivered.
Even with the warning (which some US airlines paid for), you couldn't "lock
out the bad one" even assuming you knew which one that was (you don't). All
_you_ could do is disable the electronic horizontal stabilizer completely, so
that MCAS couldn't command it into a dangerous and unrecoverable state.
MCAS has been fixed, in the sense that it won't command continuously bad trim
inputs until the aircraft is unrecoverable when bad AOA data is provided, but
ultimately the aircraft either needs to be designed around trustworthy AOA
data (i.e. triple) or you untrustworthy (i.e. double, even with the warning).
Half measures are exactly how we got to this point, with two crashes.
Both answers are actually acceptable. A lot of completely safe aircraft have
untrustworthy AOA inputs, the key there though is that automated systems are
designed around that assumption. MCAS had too much flight authority to be
linked to untrustworthy inputs.
~~~
LoSboccacc
> Half measures are exactly how we got to this point
also they increased the maximum stabilizer angles mcas could command, the
review/certification was done with a 0.6 cap (effective but not overwhelming)
and on production it was increased on a whopping 2.5 degrees.
it was also meant to be using vertical acceleration to understand whether the
plane was actually stalling, but that trigger was removed
it was also supposed to operate slowly enough to let people catch up with its
operation and be able to disconnect it in case of a runaway trim, but the
increased angle required to move the stabilizer faster
I don't know the exact English term for this kind of iterative failure of
people communicating changes to each other assuming they are both fixing a
problem, instead making it worse, but it's not just like they were doing half
measures, they were each tuning their systems in silos, without considering
cross system functionality from each system behavioral changes
~~~
salawat
Impedance mismatch I believe they call that in the Electrical Engineering
world. If you don't match up your output characteristics to the specified
input characteristics of the next circuit element, you're hosed.
------
cockpitherald
This proposed AD would require installing new flight control computer (FCC)
software, revising the existing Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) to incorporate
new and revised flight crew procedures, installing new MAX display system
(MDS) software, changing the horizontal stabilizer trim wire routing
installations, completing an angle of attack sensor system test, and
performing an operational readiness flight.
[https://kokpitherald.com/faa-releases-737-max-review-
propose...](https://kokpitherald.com/faa-releases-737-max-review-proposes-key-
design-changes/)
~~~
stx
Why not include a secondary angle of attack sensor. From what I hear some
military aircraft have 4 of them in case of failure. I do understand that the
bigger issue was not just that the angle of attack sensor failed but that the
crew was not informed of how to handle the failure.
~~~
stefan_
They have two AOA sensors. In a particular stroke of genius, the MCAS system
would select one randomly at boot and use it exclusively (so you have twice
the failure rate of a single sensor and no benefits from an extra one).
And the AOA disagree system the FAA "proposes" installing? That was already an
optional extra.
~~~
refurb
Maybe I need to brush up on my probabilities, but why would you have twice the
failure rate?
If each sensor failed 5% of the time and the sensor was chosen at random,
wouldn’t the failure rate be the same?
~~~
mantap
Imagine flipping a coin. Your chance of tails is 50%. What is your chance of a
tails if you flip two coins? It's now 75% clearly (TT, HT, TH but not HH).
Now imagine it's not a coin but a normal distribution. If you sample from it
twice then take the minimum of your samples, the chance that the minimum is
below the mean is 75%. Just the same as with the coin but in another context.
Obviously the time-before-failure is not normally distributed, nor are the
sensors completely independent random variables. But the chance of failure of
_the system_ will be higher than one sensor, not double exactly but higher.
~~~
refurb
_What is your chance of a tails if you flip two coins?_
Thanks for explaining, but my understanding is the computer only looks at one
sensor at a time, it doesn't look at both.
------
Animats
That's a fairly mild fix. the FAA could have required that the MCAS system
meet the requirements for a full authority fly-by-wire system.
Boeing built an unstable airplane, then tried to fix it with a tweak to a non-
redundant auto-trim system. If this was a full fly by wire plane, like the 777
and later, or the Airbus 320 and later, there would be much more sensor and
compute redundancy. Plus the fly by wire system has more awareness of the
overall flight situation.
------
Freaken
Noob question here: Since, if I get this correctly, all these changes will
require new pilot training, why is the MCAS still needed?
My understanding was that this system was installed in order for the new plane
to behave exactly like the old one therefore not requiring costly additional
pilot training.
~~~
linuxftw
> why is the MCAS still needed?
Because Boeing and the FAA are talking out of both sides of their mouth. The
planes aren't safe to fly without MCAS, MCAS is unreliable, so the solution is
to disable MCAS whenever the plane determines it's best, even if it's going to
be highly detrimental to safely operating. We still don't have ANY data on
flying the planes safely without MCAS. We only have data on planes where MCAS
fails, and those planes crashed.
~~~
bkor
MCAS is only supposed to activate in extreme circumstances. The planes are
perfectly safe to fly and capable of flying without MCAS working.
I think you need to read up on MCAS a bit more.
~~~
salawat
No, they really don't. The prescriptive testing requirements are both clear,
and written in blood. If you can't handle those extremes in the prescribed
manner, you don't carry the flying public.
The regulation is clear cut, and unambiguous in that regard. Furthermore, the
crashes that occurred happened because a system that is only supposed to kick
in at the extremes did so in non-extreme situations repeatedly due to GIGO
(Garbage In, Garbage Out), and to disastrous effect.
I welcome you to look at the FDR telemetry curves for the two flights. The AoA
measurement for one of them was 70-80 degrees if I recall, the other was 20ish
degrees offset from where it should have been.
------
zaroth
[https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachments/19_035n-R3-8-3-20...](https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachments/19_035n-R3-8-3-20.pdf)
> "To address the unsafe condition, the FAA proposes to require four design
> changes: (1) installing updated flight control software (with new control
> laws) for the FCC operational program software (OPS), (2) installing updated
> MDS display processing computer (DPC) software to generate an AOA disagree
> alert, (3) revising certain AFM flightcrew operating procedures, and (4)
> changing the routing of horizontal stabilizer trim wires."
> "The first design change is intended to prevent erroneous MCAS activation.
> The second design change alerts the pilots that the airplane’s two AOA
> sensors are disagreeing by a certain amount indicating a potential AOA
> sensor failure. The third design change is intended to ensure that the
> flightcrew has the means to recognize and respond to erroneous stabilizer
> movement and the effects of a potential AOA sensor failure. The fourth
> design change is intended to restore compliance with the FAA’s latest wire
> separation safety standards."
Notably the FAA does not required a 3rd AoA sensor, but simply for software to
monitor both sensors, compare the values, and if they disagree beyond a given
threshold, to light an "AoA Disagree" lamp and disable MCAS for the remainder
of the flight.
MCAS will also only be allowed to activate one time per "High AoA" event. The
AoA sensors must return to a normal range before MCAS is allowed to activate
again.
Finally, they must limit the maximum MCAS command authority within a set range
so that manual control can always maintain altitude, whereas previously MCAS
would command horizontal stabilizer adjustments without any regard to the
current position.
It seems that in an AOA DISAGREE situation, the flight is still permitted to
take off.
In my non-expert summary, they seem to be doing the absolute minimum amount of
work possible to "address" the problem, and dodge completely the fundamental
contradiction of why one would implement an unreliable-by-design MCAS system,
hobble the control authority of that system, and further, permit flight when
that system is known to be disabled.
In light of these admissions, I cannot comprehend why the MCAS system exists
at all, and how the added complexity (variance in airframe operation) is worth
any possible benefit.
In Elon-speak, the best part is no part. The best system is no system. So if
you admit you can fly without it, why leave something in which is
unpredictable, unreliable, and already proven to be deadly?
EDIT: The total cost of compliance for applying these changes to 73 existing
airframes is estimated to be ~$1 million, 70% of which is the wiring harness
change. <s>The software change itself seems to amount to about 20 lines of
code, so let's call it $20 million.</s> Sorry, this seems like an absolute
joke, and right now I'm pretty angry that this is what they came up with after
"60,000 hours of review".
~~~
henryfjordan
> disable MCAS for the remainder of the flight.
My understanding is that the MCAS or something equivalent is necessary on the
737 MAX because the engines sit lower than they really should and the forward
propulsion creates torque that raises the nose of the plane. Something needs
to counteract that force.
If the MCAS is disabled, is the pilot able to trim the airplane manually
similar to how MCAS works? Or will they have to just kinda hold the nose down
with the main steering controls?
~~~
karmelapple
This might be oversimplification, but I'll venture it and hope someone
corrects me if I'm wrong:
If MCAS is disabled, then the airplane will fly very differently from the 737s
that everyone with an existing 737 flight rating is used to.
So the plane can fly, but it'll feel different.
And that sure does seem like a problem to get back safely to the ground.
~~~
tzs
MCAS only kicks in at high angle of attack with the flaps up. I believe that
most flights never come near having it activate.
If it disables due to faulty sensors and the pilots are told it is disabled,
most flights won't have to do anything different at that point. The plane will
handle just like it normally does.
If there are flights that are supposed to have maneuvers that would trigger
MCAS, pilots are going to need to be trained to avoid those maneuvers when
MCAS is disabled.
~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
But if a MCAS failure and an unexpected unusual attitude does line up, there
will be another crater.
~~~
linuxftw
This seems to be the part that everyone's missing. "Oh, this rarely happens"
is ambiguous, we don't have any data on how often MCAS operated correctly
during flights.
Also, in events that 'rarely happen' one of which is approaching a stall
(according to the FAA's report), is it safe to disable the system in the
actual scenario when encountered? It doesn't seem so. I can't see how both
"Need this system for extremely rare scenario" and "Disabling this system
because scenario is extremely rare is okay" can both be true.
~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
> I can't see how both "Need this system for extremely rare scenario" and
> "Disabling this system because scenario is extremely rare is okay" can both
> be true.
The benevolent interpretation is:
a) the plane being in a situation where the system is required is rare, but
frequent enough that the risk wouldn't be acceptable without MCAS.
b) MCAS breaking is rare, but frequent enough that we can't allow it to fly
the plane into the ground when it does (as has been demonstrated).
c) Both things happening at the same time is so exceedingly rare that a crater
is an acceptable outcome, just like we accept that all engines simultaneously
failing at the same time during take-off will likely result in a crash.
(compare:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FAA_8040.4B_Risk_mat...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FAA_8040.4B_Risk_matrix.svg))
That said, I hope EASA takes a very close look instead of blindly trusting the
FAA again...
~~~
linuxftw
These are fair points, but the FAA report used the wording "extremely rare"
(or similar) instead of a concrete quantity, and I find that extremely
reprehensible. As we all know, "extremely rare" needs to be quantified. There
are 44k flights in the US alone every day (pre COVID).
> MCAS breaking is rare
This is the part I'm not particularly inclined to agree with. The scenario is
no longer breaking, it's breaking OR disabling. There are a host of new
conditions that will result in MCAS being disabled according to the report.
Some of these conditions disable MCAS for the remainder of the flight, and the
way that I read the scenarios, it's certainly possible for these conditions to
stack together.
Reading the report gives the impression that the FAA is completely
incompetent. They didn't specify any rate of failure or disabling of MCAS, and
the 'failure scenarios' that are proposed to be carried out in the near future
are lacking in exposing these disabled scenarios.
Also, the FAA stated in the report that the plane handles similar to the 737
NG when STS is disabled; however, the MCAS automation disables MCAS and STS.
There is no information about the rate at which STS has been disabled in
flights in NGs, and no comparison on how disabling STS during the 'near stall'
portion of a 'rare event' behaves in those planes.
They wrote this long-winded document that's almost entirely devoid of
meaningful factual detail. It reads like a Boeing PR piece if I've ever seen
one.
------
jmann99999
Given the upcoming Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 release, I wish it could
provide us non-commercial flyers with a simulation of the flight controls
under the specific events that cause failure in the Max 737.
I realize the subject isn't something a corporation would touch or code for,
nor do they have a 737 in the lineup for 2020, but it would provide me with
better understanding of the problem.
~~~
xvf22
Given that the 737 isn't fly by wire the forces needed to operate the controls
is something critical that a home sim isn't going to be able to model.
~~~
morganw
Watch how much effort it takes to adjust trim with the motors disabled
[https://youtu.be/xixM_cwSLcQ?t=1106](https://youtu.be/xixM_cwSLcQ?t=1106)
It's good that MCAS will now disable itself without having to disable the trim
motors completely. I wish they'd just taken the hit on a new type rating and
given up on MCAS completely after the failures. Perhaps new 737 pilots could
get training on NG and MAX at the same time?
One thing I'm not seeing much discussion of today (though it was addressed in
previous posts about the MAX) is the development process issues that led to
the problems in the first place. Some blame it on post-McDonnell-Douglas-
merger penny-pinching, non-engineer-indulging managers. Whatever it was, the
investigation should have resulted in not just plane modifications, but
company ones.
~~~
ummonk
The type rating is not the reason for MCAS. MCAS is there to make the aircraft
satisfy certain stability requirements mandated for all planes by the FAA to
prevent an inadvertent stall.
So even with a new type rating, MCAS would still be needed unless the airframe
were massively redesigned.
------
cm2187
Boeing and the FAA. Feels like an old couple that has to live under the same
roof, so it is broken dishes and shouting all day long.
~~~
jonathanliu
FAA was the battered spouse until Boeing had those two very public crashes.
Thanks regulatory capture.
~~~
yborg
In a way, it's fortunate that the two MAX crashes happened overseas. If they
had happened in the US, Boeing could have used its regulatory leverage to
cover up the problem for a few more crashes.
~~~
jonathanliu
Hmm I wonder how true that is (I have no personal experience/knowledge). I
feel like two large crashes would get a very hard look by the NTSB.
------
onde2rock
Hum, it doesn't seem like a lot.
Maybe I missing something, but looks like a software update to make MCAS more
robust. And if it bug, raise an alarm and flight-crew operating procedures
should be (?) to deactivate MCAS and fly without ?
Could pilots actually fly the plane without MCAS ? It must feels like an
entirely different aircraft.
~~~
rootusrootus
> It must feels like an entirely different aircraft
No, if MCAS is disabled then the vast majority of the time it will fly just
like normal. MCAS is only there to adjust flying characteristics when the wing
is at a high angle of attack.
~~~
linuxftw
> only there to adjust flying characteristics when the wing is at a high angle
> of attack.
No, that's a Boeing talking point. It's there to prevent the aircraft from
stalling, not to 'adjust flying characteristics.' The nose pitches up during
high thrust, MCAS kicks in to to counter what the pilot is doing (stick and
thrust) so the plane doesn't stall.
~~~
rootusrootus
All planes with low mounted engines (read: most current jet airliners) pitch
up with increased thrust. It's not controversial, and pilots deal with it
routinely. MCAS does not activate under normal flight conditions.
~~~
linuxftw
> MCAS does not activate under normal flight conditions.
This is entirely the problem. If MCAS operates, you're already doing something
wrong. It was required in the first place because the likelihood of pilots
doing something wrong is high. Now, instead of MCAS backing up the pilot's bad
decision making, it might cut out at a critical moment.
We already know that Boeing revised (increased) the authority of MCAS without
notifying the FAA because testing found the MCAS to be inadequate initially.
You can't simultaneously need MCAS and be okay with it being disabled
intermittently. Those two things are directly at odds.
------
thanatos519
What really needs design changes? Boeing's organization! This is going to keep
happening until it is restructured to take safety seriously again.
------
inamberclad
Their requirement is to make the AoA disagree light standard? Wow that's next
to nothing.
For those that don't remember, the AoA disagree light is an optional, costs-
extra safety feature on this model.
How about we add a big fat MCAS disengage button to the yoke instead, and make
it separate from the trim cutout switch?
~~~
tgsovlerkhgsel
Or repurpose the _existing_ second trim cutout switch... (AFAIK there are two,
that used to serve different purposes, and are now both left in to keep the
same type rating).
~~~
toast0
Yes! If this was available, at least the second crash seemed likely
preventable given the timeline of events. I didn't read the timeline for the
first one.
~~~
salawat
Relevant article:
[https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-
aerospace/boein...](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-
aerospace/boeing-altered-key-switches-in-737-max-cockpit-limiting-ability-to-
shut-off-mcas/)
That would allow a pilot to put the plane in a configuration for which it is
not certified to transport passengers, however, and the triggering thereof
should always be deemed an emergency if we're going to take our regulations
with any level of seriousness.
~~~
toast0
That article has opposing viewpoints on if it would be a good idea.
But, imagine if the switches were as before --- the left turns off automation
control of electric trim, and the right turns off all electric trim. In that
case Boeing's notice for what to do in case of MCAS failure would be turn off
the left switch and then they'd have advice about how immediate the need to
land is. As opposed to their notice which was insufficient for Ethiopia Air
pilots because they weren't able to trim the stabilizer manually and tried
reenabling electric trim and MCAS continued to be broken.
Hopefully the MCAS changes described will be sufficient to prevent it from
causing more crashes, and Boeing has republished a procedure to gain manual
control by easing off the yoke temporarily, but it still seems to me that
providing electric trim without automation input, as was available before (but
never suggested to be used) would provide an additional tool for pilots in
exceptional circumstances.
------
heyflyguy
I thought for sure an SFAR would be the result, but they should count
themselves lucky as hell that it was only an AD.
I'm not usually in the group hating on big corporations but in this case it
may be simply because Boeing is a behemoth.
------
josemanuel
I wonder what EASA will do..
~~~
jacquesm
Run their own evaluation and make their own set of recommendations. With some
luck they will not be incompatible with each other.
~~~
sgc
My guess is their evaluation is somewhat in parallel and at least some
communication existed before this proposal was made. Thus I expect their
requirements to be largely compatible with this proposal.
------
bedhead
Can we just scrap this thing and move on already? Isn’t all of this back-and-
forth alone evidence that this thing shouldn’t be flying?? It’s over, Boeing,
you lose.
~~~
valuearb
Because it’s far cheaper to make them safe than to trash them. The problem
isn’t the basic airplane, it’s the short shrift Boeing gave the safety
systems.
~~~
dmead
that is not the commonly held interpretation of this my dude.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Flyte: A Cloud Native Machine Learning and Data Processing Platform - mgrover
https://eng.lyft.com/introducing-flyte-cloud-native-machine-learning-and-data-processing-platform-fb2bb3046a59
======
minimaxir
How does this differ from Airflow?
[https://airflow.apache.org/](https://airflow.apache.org/)
Looking at the docs for both, Flyte has similar functionality to Airflow,
except less mature and a more functional Task specification syntax. Airflow
has the same data ETL operators as well, plus a few more.
~~~
kumare3
Great question, I am working on a follow up blog that will explain the
differences in more detail. Flyte does take some inspiration from airflow, but
it has a lot of important differences \- Flyte natively understands data flow
between tasks. This is achieved using its own type system created in protobuf
\- Flyte tasks are first class citizens and hence can be shared, reused and
are always associated with an interface declaration \- Flyte is container and
kibernetes native. It is also multi tenant. \- Flyte corn scheduler, control
plane api and the actual execution engine are decoupled. Each workflow can be
independently executed on a different execution engine \- Flyte workflows are
purely specification - defined in protobuf and Flyte tasks also \- Flyte
provides an event stream of the execution \- since Flyte is aware of the data,
it comes with built in memorization and auto cataloging \- like airflow Flyte
can have plugins in python, but it supports a richer plugin interface \- Flyte
is written in Golang and on top of kuberenetes It is definitely less mature in
the open source, so please help us make it better. But it has been battle
tested at Lyft for more than 3 years in production.
~~~
zerovar
Have Lyft migrated all their workflows from Airflow to Flyte? Or does Airflow
still play a role alongside Flyte? Was assuming Lyft is running workflows in
Airflow from this post [https://eng.lyft.com/running-apache-airflow-at-
lyft-6e53bb8f...](https://eng.lyft.com/running-apache-airflow-at-
lyft-6e53bb8fccff)
~~~
kumare3
Another great question. So Airflow is used at Lyft for ETL. I think for
traditional ETL it still is a good fit. But, there is an effort to not just
migrate, but rethink how we can leverage Flyte's capabilities to improve our
ETL experience.
But, as it exists, we have a FlyteAirflowOperator, so that users can easily
connect their Airflow pipelines with Flyte and write the new ones on Flyte
alone.
Stay tuned for developments on this front :)
------
roberto
Any plans to support Python type annotations, instead of using the @inputs and
@outputs decorators?
~~~
crorella
You mean DataClasses?
~~~
roberto
No, I mean type annotations in the functions defining the tasks. If you look
at their first example, they define a function called
`get_traintest_splitdatabase`, and the input and outputs are annotated using
two decorators.
~~~
kumare3
Roberto, this is absolutely one of our goals. When we started, it was with
python2.7 still around. We would love contributions, ofcourse we will work
with you and adapt it
------
crorella
"use cached versions of pre-computed artifacts" This is really nice. I wonder
if this also covers partial pre-computations, for example when the same
subquery is reused across several pipelines.
~~~
matthewphsmith
It is definitely possible to leverage Flyte's features here for sharing
partial outputs. It does, however, require formatting your pipelines in a
particular manner for this to be supported natively (i.e. create a task which
computes a view or similar. Then that task is shared among different
pipelines). It might be a little verbose, but, in my opinion, it is preferable
because it modularizes pipelines into tasks which are individually tractable
for testing and validation--especially as the tasks and pipelines evolve in a
large organization! Further, the verbosity of authoring such pipelines can be
reduced significantly by making good use of the flytekit library.
Additionally, there is always the option of introducing a custom plugin.
Although it would take more effort up front, one can really let their
imagination run wild and introduce behaviors as needed.
~~~
crorella
I see, thanks. I was hoping for this to be more automatic.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Best ways to spread the word about your web app - bfig
Hi everyone. I built a beautiful project and task management tool and am now struggling to spread the word about it. Would be interesting to know from who went the same path if you have any pointers for me. Seems to be incredibly hard to push through all the noise out there.
======
webstartupper
Step 1: Define your customer segment. Who is hiveflux for? bootstrapped,
startups, remote teams, specific industry? If you are not sure yet, look at
who your competition is targeting. Niche it down. You can always expand
horizontally later.
Step 2: Once you know your customer segment, change the copy on your website
to drive the value proposition home for that specific segment.
Step 3: Find out where your target customers hang out. People from specific
niche industries hang out at specific niche forums. Hang out at these forums
and ask questions and contribute. If you are strapped for time, you could
advertise directly on the forums - a lot of them allow you to open paid sales
threads.
Step 4: Build a community from the early adopters you find from these forums
and then get them to spread the word.
~~~
bfig
Thank you for the awesome pointers :)
------
v_ignatyev
Hi. I recommend to set up proper social accounts, make them containing clean
one-liner/tagline of your web app and link to the page. Then post few tweets
with hashtags somehow related to the problem your product solve. Then try to
follow 50-100 guys in Twitter who could be your prospectives. Try to get
follow backs. Post again. Look for forums and threads where people discuss
tools like yours.
To support this campaign, try to write press release and send it to bloggers
and magazines popping up on your key search request, set up links with them
and ask to post on some date, then buy some targeted Ads in Facebook and
Google.
More aggresive you will, more prospectives you engage. The better way is to
make natural links on forums and boards related to your product. Better to
make it the part of viral loop or even better part of user daily workflow.
~~~
bfig
Thank you for the valuable info.
------
nkangoh
You built a beautiful project and task management tool, make a post about it,
yet fail to show us what it is (e.g. link)? That's pretty much your problem
right there. You need to advertise the service.
~~~
bfig
Sorry, didn't want the post to sound like an advert.
Here: wwww.hiveflux.com
------
dllthomas
... link?
Word of mouth, for a quality tool, is significantly better than nothing
(though probably _not_ where you should stop... others will have more ideas).
~~~
bfig
www.hiveflux.com
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NSA Officers Sometimes Spy on Love Interests - danso
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/23/nsa-officers-sometimes-spy-on-love-interests
======
mehwoot
_NSA said in a statement Friday that there have been "very rare" instances of
willful violations of any kind in the past decade, and none have violated key
surveillance laws._
So there have been willful violations, but they didn't violate key
surveillance laws? How does that work?
~~~
anologwintermut
Same way a cop who murder's someone in the line of duty doesn't mean the
department murdered someone. That part makes sense.
The question(as with cops), is what happened to the people who did violate the
rules? It's unlikely they were fired or prosecuted, hopefully they were
demoted and lost access to the system.
NSA is loath to fire people(and likely revoke their clearance if it's for
cause) with serious classified knowledge since getting a comparable paying job
with a revoked clearance and a large gap on your resume would be very hard.
The worry is they would simply sell knowledge to a foreign government.
------
pessimizer
What are the odds that NSA officers sometimes engage in insider trading?
>Most of the incidents, officials said, were self-reported. Such admissions
can arise, for example, when an employee takes a polygraph tests as part of a
renewal of a security clearance.
So the only way we catch them is when they admit it. Great.
~~~
zenocon
Seems like this narrative hasn't been explored and could have legs. I'm not
holding my breath, but I'd like to see a solid media piece that hammered this
idea home for the American-folk.
------
invalidOrTaken
If anyone wants to discourage bright hackers from working at the NSA, make it
creepy to their potential love interests: publish stories at popular sites
with titles like, "Is your NSA girlfriend/boyfriend reading your Facebook
messages?"
~~~
soup10
surely that will do the trick
------
farseer
Well why wouldn't they? The NSA is run by humans after all.
~~~
orblivion
I would have to agree. Tell me any large organization where there's not a few
infractions in a decade.
And I'm no apologist for the NSA, I just think intellectual honesty is good
for our side of the argument.
~~~
cgranade
In a way, things like this are a part of the whole bloody point that opponents
of the NSA have been making: if you put that much surveillance power into the
hands of a relatively small number of humans, then they will abuse it. These
sort of incidents reveal through their pettiness some of the ways in which
massive surveillance invites abuse.
------
hobs
"Oh dont worry, the only abuses at the NSA are jilted lovers spying on exs,
trust us!"
It sounds like a load of hork, especially considering the sliding slope of
truth they have been pushing lately.
------
plesner
I was going to ask why these agencies even use polygraphs but found an answer
on wikipedia: "According to a report to Congress, polygraphy in the security
clearance context has little utility in detecting untruth, but significant
utility in inducing verbal admissions. That is, polygraphy is mainly useful as
a prop in the interrogation process. Further, this likely accounts for its
continuing use by government agencies." Sounds real reliable.
~~~
dobbsbob
It's totally just a prop they use as an interrogation trick, much like the
fake phone in Stasi detention centers that the interrogator would pretend to
receive timely intel on whoever they were interrogating, or use it to make
pretend calls to HQ to go pick up the person's family for questioning if they
didn't like the answers. Cops to this day use a lot of those tricks, like the
file folder they come into your cell with that's full of scrap paper they
claim is 'all the evidence against you, so you better start talking'.
Penn & Teller Bullshit did a good episode on lie detecting pseudoscience:
[http://youtu.be/8NLf7XwLpyQ](http://youtu.be/8NLf7XwLpyQ)
------
danso
> _Most of the incidents, officials said, were self-reported. Such admissions
> can arise, for example, when an employee takes a polygraph tests as part of
> a renewal of a security clearance_
So of the vague number of reported violations that the NSA will admit to, most
of them are found through confessions...and some of these apparently come from
the kind of NSA employee who can't fool a polygraph test.
There are so many comical things about this that it's almost hard to be
indignant
~~~
MikeCapone
Nobody watches the watchers. We're supposed to just have blind trust.
~~~
VladRussian2
In Polygraph we trust.
Btw, "spying on love interest", pardon my English, isn't it just a PC
expression for "stalking"?
~~~
pessimizer
Yes.
------
asperous
_Such admissions can arise, for example, when an employee takes a polygraph
tests as part of a renewal of a security clearance._
Interestingly, this is very illegal for private companies to do under EEPA.
Why should government employers get an exception?
~~~
achivetta
It looks like there's a few different exemptions:
[http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs36.htm](http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs36.htm)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bill Gates's Favorite Business Book - AJ007
http://online.wsj.com/articles/bill-gatess-favorite-business-book-1405088228
======
caster_cp
It's available since July 8th 2014 in Amazon... I see what you did there with
your marketing ingeniousness, Mr. WSJ || Bill Gates.
The problem is that I'm easy, all too easy, and I fall for these ploys. And
now I'm biting myself to buy the book :) Well done.
edit: what's available is a Kindle edition, that I suppose is from the same
book [http://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-Classic-
Str...](http://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-Classic-Street-
ebook/dp/B00L1TPCKW/)
~~~
d23
And the paperback just happens to be coming out in September but can be pre-
ordered now.
Kind of annoying to me personally, since I take the advice a little less
seriously now.
~~~
chaz
Do you think he should have recommended a book that was otherwise hard to get?
I think people here, after reading this article, would have thought it
ridiculous that the book _wasn 't_ available on Amazon.
My guess is that it is legitimately was his favorite book (he's known for his
voracious reading and recommendations) and he wanted it to be read by a lot of
people. So he pitched it to the publisher and the WSJ to get it done. I don't
see what's so bad about that. I hardly think he's motivated by money or fame
right now.
~~~
DanBC
Indeed, if I got FU money there's a bunch of books I'd release as cheap sets,
with corrections and updates, in multiple languages. (Around stats and
science, mostly.)
------
nickgrosvenor
This is sort of strange (but great) because at least once at every single
Berkshire Hathaway meeting someone asks Buffett and Munger what they're
favorite books are, and I have never heard them mention this one. There is 20
years of in in-depth content about Buffett in books, articles, meetings, and
interviews. "What's your fav book" must be one of the top 5 questions he gets
and I've never heard about this book. This is great.
~~~
sliverstorm
Buffett is an investor though right? Whereas Gates built a company. The two
closely related but not the same? So it doesn't surprise me they turn to
different books.
Investors usually recommend books on security analysis, which would hardly
have been useful for Gates in the 90's.
~~~
nickgrosvenor
Actually it's a little known fact that Buffet built a company too. Yes He did
invest in other publicly traded companies, and he's also acquired quite a few
too.
You can think of those as acquisitions. It's sort of a lesser known fact that
he made the majority of his money in insurance. Before anyone else thought of
it, Buffett developed a Homeostatic operation that collected insurance
premiums and then invested that float in other companies who had a history of
spinning off large amounts of free cash flow. He'd suck off that free cash
flow and buy up more companies. All while keeping a larger and larger amount
of free cash on hand in the event that he had to pay out any large claims.
This is all easier said than done because if you price your premiums wrong you
can blow up the whole business. He priced his premiums conservatively and sold
odd insurance in the back of newspapers and trade magazines, covering things
and making policies that no one else dare take on.
There's a lot more gun slinging and pivoting in the Buffett story than you'd
read about today. He raised cash manually from groups of Doctors in the 60's
for his first investor partnership (he was 26). It was no different than a 26
year old kid going out today and raising cash for a startup. And incidentally,
he delivered. There's one story in the excellent Alice Schroeder bio about him
([http://goo.gl/nZGrIX](http://goo.gl/nZGrIX)) He was around 30 years old
living in suburban Omaha. One afternoon he casually asks his next door
neighbor if he's ever thought about how he'll pay for his children's college
then goes into a sales pitch asking him for $10,000 (in the 60's). The
neighbor declined. Can you imagine? He had hustle, and street smarts, and
swagger. That's a businessman. In fact he's one of the best businessmen. Even
Gates would tell you that.
~~~
sliverstorm
_Before anyone else thought of it, Buffett developed a Homeostatic operation
that collected insurance premiums and then invested that float in other
companies..._
That's exactly what I mean. Buffett is famous & successful for being a finance
wizard. They are both businessmen, of course, but different sorts. At least,
so it seems to me.
------
AJ007
Not available on Amazon currently, but available on Abebooks:
[http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=john+brooks...](http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=john+brooks&sts=t&tn=business+adventures)
Also on Google Books for $9.99:
[http://books.google.com/books?id=ZMPTAwAAQBAJ](http://books.google.com/books?id=ZMPTAwAAQBAJ)
~~~
graffitici
Isn't this the same book: [http://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-
Classic-Str...](http://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-Classic-
Street-ebook/dp/B00L1TPCKW/)
~~~
mcguire
Isn't that one linked from Gatesnotes, "The Blog of Bill Gates":
[http://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Business-Adventures-Free-
Cha...](http://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Business-Adventures-Free-Chapter-
Download?WT.mc_id=07_11_2014_BizBook_WallStreetJournal&WT.tsrc=WallStreetJournal)
------
frogpelt
I wonder if they went to ebay and bought up all the stray copies before they
did this marketing push.
There's one copy there and the bid is currently at $260. And the product image
is a picture of Bill Gates reading it.
EDIT: Link:
[http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=john+brooks&_osacat=0&_...](http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=john+brooks&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xbusiness+adventures+john+brooks&_nkw=business+adventures+john+brooks&_sacat=0)
~~~
chaz
You can search on completed listings. Looks like only 2 copies were listed,
both unsold. Also, it seems like a long way to get Bill Gates to write a guest
column in the WSJ to make $260 (top bid $81 now).
~~~
frogpelt
Oh, I wasn't trying to insinuate that the ebay seller was connected to the WSJ
article.
------
jessep
If you have a New Yorker subscription, you can read all of John Brooks' work
online:
[http://www.newyorker.com/search?qt=dismax&rows=10&sort=score...](http://www.newyorker.com/search?qt=dismax&rows=10&sort=score+desc&fixedDate=&query=&submit=Search&magOnly=on&bylquery=John+Brooks)
Each of these links (after a summary) to a scanned archive version of the
actual magazine, which is cool. You can see the ads and layout of the day.
Edit: I actually want to read all of them, so here's the direct links to the
original articles:
\- Fluctuations:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1963-08-31#folio=034](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1963-08-31#folio=034)
\- The Fate of the Edsel:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1960-12-03#folio=198](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1960-12-03#folio=198)
\- The Federal Incom Tax: \--Part 1:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1965-04-03#folio=052](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1965-04-03#folio=052),
\--Part 2:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1965-04-10#folio=051](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1965-04-10#folio=051)
\- A Reasonable Amount of Time:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1968-11-09#folio=160](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1968-11-09#folio=160)
\- Xerox Xerox Xerox Xerox:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1967-04-01#folio=046](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1967-04-01#folio=046)
\- Making the Customers Whole:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1964-11-14#folio=160](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1964-11-14#folio=160)
\- The Impacted Philosophers:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1962-05-26#folio=045](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1962-05-26#folio=045)
\- The Last Great Corner:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1959-06-06#folio=128](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1959-06-06#folio=128)
\- A Second Sort of Life:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1961-04-29#folio=045](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1961-04-29#folio=045)
\- Stockholder Season:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1966-10-08#folio=159](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1966-10-08#folio=159)
\- One Free Bite:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1964-01-11#folio=037](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1964-01-11#folio=037)
\- In Defense of Sterling: \-- Part 1:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1968-03-23#folio=060](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1968-03-23#folio=060)
\-- Part 2:
[http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1968-03-30#folio=043](http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1968-03-30#folio=043)
~~~
HSO
And if you don't…
"Beginning July 21, the magazine’s new and archived articles will be free to
everyone, a move it hopes will attract more readers. […] The three months
during which articles will be free, a promotion that will most likely be
sponsored by a large corporation, will provide the magazine with data it plans
to use in deciding how to position and price its “metered paywall” — allowing
a certain number, or certain kinds, of free articles, but then charging its
most avid readers through a subscription plan."
[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/business/media/the-new-
yor...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/business/media/the-new-yorker-
alters-its-online-strategy.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all)
Ha, another instance of my filing system "paying off" ;-)
~~~
jasonkostempski
Would you mind describing your filing system a bit? I've been trying to work
out a better one myself.
------
lowglow
We've been adding our favorite business books here:
[https://books.techendo.com/tags/business](https://books.techendo.com/tags/business)
There's a good list and some non-traditional books for any adventurous readers
out there.
------
dumbarton
Will check out BA when I get a chance. But can't imagine it will displace what
remains my favourite "business" book of all time, the Id Software creation
yarn: Masters of Doom by David Kushner.
It was recently suggested to me that every entrepreneur should read Sir
Richard Branson's autobiography. I was dismissive having read the LRB review
of Bower's biography of "the stuntman": [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n06/david-
runciman/the-stuntman](http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n06/david-runciman/the-
stuntman).
Is "Losing My Virginity" worth a peruse? Or should we just wait for Gates
himself to deliver his memoirs?
~~~
AndrewKemendo
Though I did not glean any particular business acumen insights from it, I
thought it was very well worth the read.
It painted a portrait of Branson as a person and personality, which helps
explain his success.
------
nbouscal
Bill Gates also recommends My Years with General Motors [1], calling it
"probably the best book to read if you want to read only one book about
business." I would second that recommendation.
[1]: [http://www.amazon.com/Years-General-Motors-Alfred-
Sloan/dp/0...](http://www.amazon.com/Years-General-Motors-Alfred-
Sloan/dp/0385042353/)
~~~
dsinha
Agree, one of the best business books I have read!
------
bitwize
It's not Business @ the Speed of Thought???
~~~
mindcrime
Apparently not, but I personally am a huge fan of _Business @ The Speed Of
Thought_. Even though I'm not a huge Gates fan, and definitely not a Microsoft
fan, there's no question that Gates hit on some good stuff in that book. And
amazingly, as old as it is, I'd argue that most businesses (heck, most
organizations period) to this day have _still_ not achieved anything quite
equal to his idea of a "Digital Nervous System" (and yes, I know term didn't
originate with Gates, but he did a brilliant job of articulating and
popularizing it).
I still keep that book near my bed and re-read sections of it from time to
time. From even an avowed "Micro$oft" basher from back in the Slashdot days
when the GatesBorg image was The Thing, I have to give the devil his due -
B@TSOT is solid stuff.
------
thesumofall
And for those who missed it, there is a free chapter here:
[http://www.gatesnotes.com/media/features/books/Bill_Gates_Jo...](http://www.gatesnotes.com/media/features/books/Bill_Gates_John_Brooks_Business_Adventures_Xerox_Free_Chapter.pdf)
------
usefulcat
What is the deal with the embedded ticker symbols with popup stock info? I
suppose they're trying to drive traffic to some of their other articles, but I
can't help seeing those things as irrelevant distractions to an otherwise
interesting article.
~~~
frogpelt
Those are on pretty much every website that spends any time talking about
stocks.
------
mandeepj
> I know I'm not alone in seeing this decision as a mistake on Xerox's part. I
> was certainly determined to avoid it at Microsoft.
But they still missed on touch and social. I am not counting in tablets,
mobile because they at least tried in this space
------
sandstrom
Anyone know where I can buy the book in `epub` format? (without any DRM)
------
thewpguy
I second the recommendation. It's a good book.
------
higherpurpose
I'd be more interested in Steve Jobs' favorite business books. I know he was a
huge fan of the Innovator's Dilemma, probably because he already _naturally_
understood most of it from experience before having to read it, and he was
probably fan of other similar books too, and I'd like to know which books
those were.
I don't think Bill Gates ever understood a book like Innovator's Dilemma. Not
really.
~~~
stillsut
Check out the Innovator's Solution, the follow up.
It explains why most of the profit (ability to charge your costs plus a
premium) was dominated in the 90's by OS's, and not by the now notorious disk-
drive companies.
Gates probably understood this (how to position yourself not be disrupted) and
it's why we're all reading _his_ favorite book - which is great by the way.
~~~
dumbarton
And for the other side of the coin -- Jill Lepore's "What the Theory of
Disruptive Innovation Gets Wrong"
[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/06/23/140623fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/06/23/140623fa_fact_lepore?currentPage=all)
~~~
mtdewcmu
I haven't read Christensen's books, but the story Jill Lepore tells in that
article sounds totally credible.
Disruptive innovation is a theory of history. Given any historical event with
winners and losers, it reframes it as a contest between innovator and non-
innovator with a preordained outcome. Microsoft succeeded and Xerox failed
because PCs were the inevitable future, which Microsoft embraced and Xerox
denied. Xerox should have seen that the PC was inevitable and planned
accordingly, the theory says.
However, there is a problem when trying to apply the theory in real time, as
Lepore points out: "Disruptive innovation can reliably be seen only after the
fact." She explains the theory's circularity: "Christensen has compared the
theory of disruptive innovation to a theory of nature: the theory of
evolution. But... advocates of disruption have an affinity for circular
arguments. If an established company doesn’t disrupt, it will fail, and if it
fails it must be because it didn’t disrupt. When a startup fails, that’s a
success, since epidemic failure is a hallmark of disruptive innovation. ...
When an established company succeeds, that’s only because it hasn’t yet
failed. And, when any of these things happen, all of them are only further
evidence of disruption." It works well only in retrospect, and it can't be
disproven. Like all theories of history, it only explains things that have
already happened.
------
larrys
Separately Gates looks amazingly old in the last few years way beyond his age.
Especially in that photo. That is not the skin of a man in his late 50's.
I've speculated that he has either to much sun exposure [1], smokes (but he
doesn't?), or has some sickness that has caused him to age.
Actually when he retired from Microsoft I had thought that health might have
something to do with it. (I don't remember many cases anecdotal of successful
business people "retiring" as early as he has done. They usually continue
strong until a ripe age.)
Obviously there is no known sickness that he has spoken publicly about but
that wouldn't be that unusual.
[1] But he doesn't seem like the type that would be baking in the sun over the
course of many years and he does live in Washington State not in Florida.
Edit: It's not off topic and it's not a comment made for vanity reasons (ie
"jeez doesn't he look bad!"). The comment is made primarily because I think he
possibly has health issues and I'm curious what others think (especially those
on HN with a medical background).
~~~
biot
It's quite inappropriate to speculate on a person's private health matters in
a public forum. It's little different than being in the same room as someone,
then pointing at them and asking "What's wrong with that person's funny skin?
Is anyone a doctor here? Let's have a discussion about it!"
~~~
larrys
"It's quite inappropriate to speculate on a person's private health matters in
a public forum."
I don't agree at all. And what are you basing that on? Is there some "rules of
public forum" that has been agreed upon and accepted by the internet rule
setting committee? Is there anything in the HN faq that states this?
Even more importantly, Gates is a very public and well known person. I'm not
making comments on some unknown individual who works in marketing at some YC
company (or Microsoft for that matter). Or an HN commenter.
It's totally appropriate to speculate on his health [1] (and in fact the media
does this all the time about many well known people). That is not the same as
saying people on HN (such as yourself) might not find it inappropriate
(obviously I'm being downvoted so many people reading this particular post
don't seem to agree with me.)
Lastly, the richest or near richest man in the world doesn't need to be
protected from some anonymous person's speculation.
[1] Not the same as saying HN likes the speculation or it's appropriate for
HN. But you didn't say that. You said "health matters in a public forum".
~~~
biot
The word "forum" is a Latin word, and I'm using it in its traditional meaning
(ie: a "public venue"), not in the recent "internet message board thingy"
meaning. And I think I'll just have to disagree with you as (1) I don't
consider today's media as demonstrating exemplary values, and (2) it's not
about whether or not a wealthy/public person _needs_ protection; it's about
whether a particular activity is _right_. Obviously my value system is
different from yours in that regard.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Remove anti-privacy, anti-security, and general nuisance “features” from Win 10 - luu
https://github.com/dfkt/win10-unfuck
======
shocks
I unfucked Windows 10 by installing Fedora instead.
This is the first time in probably four years that I'm using Linux on my main
desktop again, and it's been a pleasure. Things like SLI and dual monitors
_just work_ \- I remember last time I had a Linux desktop these things were a
nightmare. A surprising amount of my games on Steam (152 of 400) support
Linux.
Zero regrets so far!
edit: Sorry, I didn't mean this to become a Linux bragging post. This looks
like a great project! I appreciate the effort people are putting in to making
W10 usable.
~~~
thejosh
I'm kind of sad games work so well, because recently my time has been sunk
into playing Civ 5 again!
~~~
shocks
Heh, I know that feeling! My vice atm is Cities: Skylines.
I'm honestly really surprised how smooth the transition was for me. I expected
it to be a bit rough - I only did the install telling myself "I'll give this a
go for a week or so" \- but I really can't see myself moving back any time
soon.
Even sleep works - and it works better than it ever did on OSX or Windows.
------
cautious_int
This is a lose-lose scenario. If you don't trust a closed operating system in
the first place, why would you then, after performing these steps, trust the
system that it really does what it says it does. The point is that you don't
know, and you can never be sure. The solution is to either trust or not,
switch or stay, there is no middle path, because any middle path implies some
amount of non-trust.
~~~
MaulingMonkey
> This is a lose-lose scenario. If you don't trust a closed operating system
> in the first place
I don't trust open systems either. I don't have the time to audit them. If I
did, I wouldn't trust myself to catch everything. I don't trust "enough eyes
make all bugs shallow" either.
Case in point: Canonical written "features" in Ubuntu, and OpenSSL bugs in
general.
> why would you then, after performing these steps, trust the system that it
> really does what it says it does.
Don't trust: verify with wireshark? Alternatively, trust the people who wrote
this to have run wireshark. Alternatively, "Trust but verify."
I generally trust Microsoft and FOSS to not be actively malicious on their own
behalf.
I trust neither Microsoft nor FOSS to do their privacy due diligence, write
perfect software, to be free of capitalistic or engineering pressure to add
privacy harming features, nor to be free from subversion by state actors (NSA
etc.)
What's your superior counter-proposal, under these conditions?
> The point is that you don't know, and you can never be sure.
Fundamental truth of computing, not "windows 10". I can't even trust the code
I write myself to be free of security or privacy issues due to my own mistakes
or lack of consideration.
> The solution is to either trust or not, switch or stay, there is no middle
> path, because any middle path implies some amount of non-trust.
I reject the thesis that trust is binary. Were I to accept it, I trust
_nobody_ \- everyone is vulnerable to being subverted by blackmail,
intimidation, making mistakes, etc.
Trust of system is also not the only factor influencing my use of a system. I
trust a deeply buried cement brick more than any computer, but I can't use the
web with it. I have _very_ different trust needs for my bank servers, my
workstation, my catstation, and my gaming console.
~~~
ekianjo
> Canonical written "features" in Ubuntu
Oh come on. Canonical did not hide what they were doing, and enabled an option
to disable it in the first place. You could try finding better examples than
that.
~~~
MaulingMonkey
> Canonical did not hide what they were doing,
Did Microsoft? This is news to me if so, and I'd be interested in reading up
on any sources for this you might have.
> and enabled an option to disable it in the first place.
Microsoft added several options to disable things. While I certainly agree
that those options have some gaps and/or are outright bugged, I'm not
convinced there's any difference in intent or motivation, which is the bigger
factor to me when it comes to trust of character.
------
lmz
It's good to read the scripts first. You might want to use some of the
"features" this removes e.g. the Windows Store, the msftncsi.com host (network
status indicator / captive portal test).
------
w8rbt
What's the difference between a sensitive/private email being composed on a
smart phone or a Windows 10 laptop or desktop?
It used to be that only the smartphone knew your location, what you type, who
you are, who you are emailing, etc. The difference now is that desktops and
laptops running Windows 10 do too.
This seems to upset people, but the same people were/are OK with using smart
phones. I don't get it, of course I don't use smart phones either and have no
plans to use Windows 10. But when all my Android and iPhone friends complain
about Windows 10, I just scratch my head and wonder these things.
~~~
metric10
? The issue isn't that Windoes knows your location when you type an email,
it's that it sends all this information and much more to Microsoft. If I type
an email on my iPhone it doesn't get sent to Apple (unless, of course, I'm
using my iCloud email account).
Additionally, Apple is very clear which what they collect and what gets sent
to Apple. They go through it when you set your iOS or Mac OS X device up. It's
not hidden in some "advanced setup" link.
~~~
zimbatm
On OSX there are a ton on Apple services phoning home for all sorts of
reasons, all the time. Try installing Little Snitch some time and be amazed.
And I wouldn't be surprised to see the same on the iOS devices. Any Apple
device is super noisy on the network with just mDNSResponder alone.
Most of them are also for useful features, it's just that they are all talking
over the wire and potentially exfiltrating user information. I don't think
that people realize how much data is sent around all of the time.
Here is a non-exchaustive list just to give an idea:
* locationd -> gs-loc.apple.com:443
* apsd -> .push.apple.com:80,443,5223
* mapspushd -> .ls.apple.com:80
* UserEventAgent -> :80
* ntpd -> time.apple.com
* ocspd -> :80,443
* ...
I didn't put all services. Notice that some data is not even encrypted.
------
dingdingdang
Good effort for sure but I'm still really sketched out by the sheer amount of
monitoring crapware on Windows 10: what stops MS from re-enabling all of this
stuff?
After all you and I will need to leave auto-updating on default in order for
the OS to stay safe in Internet context. Which effectually means that MS can
enable/replace all of these services at any given time. I get that trusting
closed source code is always iffy but trusting closed source software that
-intentionally- sets out to monitor and document your every move seems a less
than optimal path to walk. Will stay on Windows 7 for now and if no better
offering comes along from MS I will move to a Linux solution (or even OSX if
my privacy stands a better chance of being protected than on Windows). Sad in
a way cause I'm fundamentally fine with Windows from a work perspective, it
gets stuff done for me.
------
cwyers
Like, this disables a lot of actual features -- the Xbox stuff, Windows
Store... I get some people don't use that stuff, but it's generalizing from a
local preference to a global one to call these "anti-features" and the like as
some in this thread have. Features you don't use are not the same as features
nobody uses.
Meanwhile disabling UAC so you can run a pile of batch files off the Internet
sounds like a terrible idea to me.
~~~
nej_simon
The batch files are small so it's easy to verify what they do at least!
~~~
cwyers
Even if one reviews them and finds them not actively malicious (which on
cursory review seems likely) there's still the question of how well they're
written. If I am not mistaken, the PowerShell script to remove the bundled
Metro apps (what's the deal with removing the Calculator anyway?) is littered
with wildcards. The bigger point is that you shouldn't be disabling UAC
anyway, and anyone who suggests it is immediately on my list of people I don't
fully trust.
------
arthurfm
The person who wrote the aforementioned batch files for Windows 10 also
created "firefox-tweaks" [1]. These also contain some very dubious and/or
irresponsible suggestions [2] which implies the author doesn't actually know
what they are doing.
[1] [https://github.com/dfkt/firefox-
tweaks/blob/master/firefox-t...](https://github.com/dfkt/firefox-
tweaks/blob/master/firefox-tweaks.txt)
[2] [https://github.com/pbiggar/firefox-
tweaks/commit/635779c7939...](https://github.com/pbiggar/firefox-
tweaks/commit/635779c79393d017a1a73dbc38e230546e724a35)
------
liw
A good word for these is anti-features, introduced by Benjamin Mako Hill.
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anti-
feature](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anti-feature)
------
therobot24
I'm all for scripts to help set these things up fast, but never in a million
years will i download some random .bat file to just click and run. Especially
without documentation of each operation it's going to perform.
I know i can just read the code, but i'm not skilled enough with windows to
know if there's something else snuck in there or not.
~~~
lcswi
Is there no 'curl [http://example.com/script.sh](http://example.com/script.sh)
| sh' equivalent for windows? It's really popular among the typical
js/ruby/mongodb crowd so I guess it is safe and secure.
~~~
jholman
You might have been joking, or you might have been serious. If you were
joking, my reply is for the benefit of readers other than yourself.
Aside from the obvious risks of downloading and immediately executing internet
code, which are indeed risks but of course we all accept them on a regular
basis...
... and aside from the mildly more subtle risks that the HTTP server is doing
something sinister, e.g. with browser-agent, and so you're not getting the
code you think you're getting...
... even aside from these issues, curl-and-pipe-to-sh is dangerous because of
its failure modes.
[https://www.seancassidy.me/dont-pipe-to-your-
shell.html](https://www.seancassidy.me/dont-pipe-to-your-shell.html)
~~~
lcswi
I was sarcastic, thanks for that great link!
------
r3bl
Is it just me, or is this like third or forth open source program posted here
that does the same thing?
------
jetm9
does this contain fixes for things explained in
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420)?
i think listing what it does would be cool. because after that revealation
disabling everything and anything still may not be enough.
------
aluhut
Thank you! This is what a Windows solution looks like.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How fast should space-wifi be? - syedkarim
I'm in the early stages of developing, with others, a space-based wifi system. It's a store-and-forward broadcast network that uses wifi multicast to provide content directly to mobile devices anywhere on Earth. One of way of thinking of it is GPS (50 bps) on steroids, or BitTorrent from space. The focus is more on unidirectional transmissions, rather than bi-directional connectivity, which would be way too costly at this point.<p>Although a constellation with as few as 25 cubesats is possible, the data rate would be incredibly low. Getting to dial up speeds will take a couple hundred satellites. So my question is: For people who would otherwise not have internet access, what kind of download speeds are useful? More about the project here http://outernet.is
======
kapnobatairza
I frequently travel to developing countries (particularly in Africa/Middle
East. I think what is more important than speed is reliability. Most countries
have some sort of decent mobile internet service to some extent - it is just
spotty and unreliable and usually a generation or two behind.
You should think of this project as complementary to normal internet access -
a last resort backup that reliable works at a low speed. Dial up should be
fine - pages might take a while to load (especially those that are image
heavy) but people shouldn't expect to be able to stream YouTube on a service
like this.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Building a Regex Search Engine for DNA - joshma
http://benchling.engineering/dna-regex-search/?hn
======
lambda
I don't know if there was any strict requirement to use Python, but you
mention the difficulty in finding a library to parse regular expressions.
One of the many great features of the Rust regex crate ([https://doc.rust-
lang.org/regex/regex/index.html](https://doc.rust-
lang.org/regex/regex/index.html)) is that there's actually a regex_syntax
crate that provides this parsing support ([https://doc.rust-
lang.org/regex/regex_syntax/index.html](https://doc.rust-
lang.org/regex/regex_syntax/index.html)), which can be used for purposes like
this, to do alternative kinds of matching engines.
Rust's regex library also has pretty good DFA and NFA matching engines, and an
Aho-Corasick engine for parts of the regex that can be decomposed into just a
set of simple strings to match, as well as some fairly well optimized exact
substring search to speed up search for expressions with some substring that
must match exactly, so it can be fairly fast for the kinds of matches like
your "TAG(A|C|T|G)GG" example.
Another, even more radical change, would be to build a finite state transducer
of your data set, which you can then do regex matching on directly by taking a
union of an automaton representing the regex and the FST representing your
data (which is itself an automaton). I learned about FSTs from the author of
the Rust regex crate:
[http://blog.burntsushi.net/transducers/](http://blog.burntsushi.net/transducers/).
An FST is actually used internally for certain types of searches in
Elasticsearch/Lucene
([https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/curr...](https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/search-
suggesters-completion.html)). I don't know if these would be suited to this
problem as is by just building an FST from your set of sequences, or maybe
using the overlapping subsequences idea to make FSTs from a larger number of
shorter strings, but it would be an interesting project to explore.
~~~
joshma
Insanely cool, thanks for sharing - this would be interesting to replace our
final filter (if I'm interpreting correctly, a trigram index would still speed
up the initial search)
And yeah, Python is a strict requirement since the rest of our code is in
Python - figured it wasn't worth throwing in another language when a rough
parser worked.
~~~
burntsushi
> (if I'm interpreting correctly, a trigram index would still speed up the
> initial search)
Your trigram approach is roughly isomorphic to the FST approach. The main
benefit of an FST is that it can store a huge number of keys in a very small
amount of space that is still searchable without a separate decompression
phase. In the case of trigrams with a low alphabet size, an FST probably isn't
a big win. But say if you wanted to increase to a bigger N-gram for some
reason, then perhaps an FST might help you out. It's true that Rust's fst
library has a way to apply regexes to the FST for very fast search (Lucene
also has this), but its subjects are terms in the FST, which in your case
corresponds to trigrams. This means you still have to go through the "extract
a set of trigrams from a regex to pre-filter on" dance.
And yeah, using the regex-syntax crate from Python would have been a fair
amount of work. In particular, it still needs a C API before you can use it
from Python, which would probably be a fair amount of grunt work.
In any case, as a computational biologist in a former life, this is very cool
work. Nice job! :-)
------
daemonk
Bioinformatican here with couple years of bench experience. Nice writeup, but
what would be the use case here? I would imagine something like automatically
annotating motifs/restriction sites and then searching for them would be more
useful than searching for near-exact sequence?
For example, finding all plasmids with a certain primer sequence, specific
restriction sites, promoter motif...
~~~
theophrastus
Protein Structural Chemist (i guess) here and I'd like an even higher level
'regular expression' which would allow one to search DNA sequences likely to
code for protein domains with likely secondary structure, (something like a
string to search for "Secstruc" within "Exon Structure" [1]). The "likely"
will always be a problem in these sorts of attempts; any genomics regular
expressions should allow for the option of the statistical best hit.
[1]
[http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/protein/P00918](http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/protein/P00918)
~~~
kusmi
Have you looked at T-coffee? They have this new feature called expresso which
might do what you want.
------
tmaly
I was going to say there was a faster way than regex, but I saw you were not
actually using regex to parse in the way I first thought.
I work in a different domain, and I find custom state machines to the
preferred way to do matching over large sets of data. Of course using
something like compressed bitmap indices are also helpful.
~~~
joshma
Yeah, I'm not too happy about how we're using regex inside a groovy script for
the final matching - when we scale this to support larger matches we'll likely
hit memory issues trying to parse the entire string at once, and I've been
playing around with the idea of streaming the bases into a state machine. Is
that similar to what you were referring to?
Do you have a way of generating state machines, or are they hand coded? Is it
a perf optimization, or does it help integrating domain-specific logic?
~~~
malisper
What were some of the query features that caused you to choose Elasticsearch
over pg_trgm, because pg_trgm supports regular expressions out of the box.
~~~
joshma
We use ES for the rest of benchling search already, so that was the main
reason why we stuck with ES (ngram indexing is pretty standard there).
As for why we were using ES for the rest of search: we were using it for
things like language stemming, matching terms with "slop", things like
{'minimum_should_match': '3<67%'} (require exact matches if 3 or less terms,
67% if more than that), searching _all to match anything in the document, etc
etc. I think a bunch of these (maybe even all) you can do in PG, but it was
way easier to get going with ES.
ES is also distributed, which makes scaling up and doing maintenance a lot
easier - a bunch of times we just threw new nodes at it and remove old nodes
that had gone bad.
------
wrong_variable
Could HN help me with this.
I remember reading this really wonderful article on the levenshtein distance
on HN 2-3 months ago.
basically I have difficulty understanding why the Wagner-Fisher's algorithm
works - the intuition behind it - I remember it was dynamic programming but I
really want to read that article again.
The format was similar to medium with wonderful diagrams :( I tried searching
for it on HN but searching on HN is really difficult and it was my own fault
for not saving it on Pocket.
I would really appreciate the help since it was one of those "better
explained" gems.
~~~
alixaxel
Also curious, could it be one of these websites where they explain algorithms
visually?
Have you tried
[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=levenshtein&sort=byPopularity&...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=levenshtein&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=pastYear&type=story)
?
~~~
wrong_variable
oh wow ! didnt know there was a handy search engine for HN.
basically it explained 1-dimentional Levenshtein distance first.
That blew my mind since its much easier to think about the 1d case and then
apply it for a 2d matrix.
but i remember reading only half-way through the article before had to do
something else :( sorry - but I really want to read it again since it will
really help me out at my work !
EDIT -
FOUND IT !
thanks a lot for that ! It was a god send !
[http://davedelong.tumblr.com/post/134367865668/edit-
distance...](http://davedelong.tumblr.com/post/134367865668/edit-distance-and-
edit-steps)
here is the link - you just made my afternoon !
EDIT 2 -
someone should write a book which explains all maths/algorithms concepts using
just links to blog posts by most HN popularity - just a though :)
------
twotwotwo
Part of the way down the post links to Russ Cox's excellent writeup of how
Google used this general sort of technique (turn a regexp into a bunch of
conditions involving three-symbol sequences, search an index for them, work
from there) to do regexp searching scalably for Code Search:
[https://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp4.html](https://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp4.html)
You can peruse his open-source (re)implementation of the approach at
[https://github.com/google/codesearch](https://github.com/google/codesearch) .
------
rurban
You are still searching for char (256 values, 8 bit) when you only need 4
values (2 bit)? You know that cache misses dominate the search, so you need to
compress the chars to 2 bit, and search in L1 cache size blocks. Esp. the
inverted index will be much faster to search if compressed.
Furthermore those search terms are so highly specialized that you can easily
jit the regex.
Why using the super slow python and not a fast language? I thought DNA
matching is a big and important enough problem where you shouldn't toy around
with dinosaurs.
[Edit: 3 -> 2 bit]
~~~
joshma
Hm, unless I'm misunderstanding, the bottleneck here isn't running regex over
all the sequences - it's in filtering out a large % of sequences before
running a regex over the remaining ones. You're storing trigrams (3-byte keys)
in an inverted index - compressing them won't get you much other than space
savings. Re: caching, we're using Elasticsearch's bitmap caching to speed
things up. If you search for something twice, the second time it'll take the
cached bitmap from the first search and use that instead.
We use fast languages when we need them. Python is just parsing a regex to
generate constraints - for DNA search, parsing a 1000-char regex is super fast
and rarely an issue.
In this case, we're already at sub 100ms searches (usually sub 50ms) so I
don't see much benefit from playing around with L1 caches and JIT-ing when
higher-level structure already gives the perf characteristics we need.
------
alixaxel
Nice article!
BTW, Go has a very complete RE2 parser:
[https://golang.org/pkg/regexp/syntax/](https://golang.org/pkg/regexp/syntax/)
\- it even handles simplifications for you, I'm actually using it together
with a RDPT in namegrep.com.
And in JavaScript you also have ret.JS:
[https://github.com/fent/ret.js/](https://github.com/fent/ret.js/).
------
noir_lord
Absolutely fascinating write up, stuff like this is why I still love HN, as a
web developer who mostly writes line-of-business stuff this kind of
programming is a long way from what I do but reminds me just how big the field
is.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Teaching Machines to Understand Us (2015) - r_singh
http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/540001/teaching-machines-to-understand-us/
======
r_singh
Being a Machine Learning noob, this article leaves me fantasizing about a
future that would make my life a lot more exciting.
Based on this article, I would love to invest my time getting skilled at deep
learning.
I would love to know what people with more experience with Machine Learning
think about what Yann Lecun is trying to achieve?
Thanks!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Python-Daemon - Library to implement a well-behaved Unix daemon process. - rams
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-daemon
======
tow21
I tend to think this is the wrong way to go about daemonizing a process; it
does the relatively easy but fiddly stuff for you, leaving you still to manage
process monitoring.
Better to have the process neither know not care about its daemonized status,
which is not really core program logic, and have the process monitor manage
daemonization, à la <http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html>
------
thristian
Twisted Python comes with its own "twistd" script to daemonize a Twisted
application. Sure, not every Python daemon is written in Twisted, but most
daemons talk to a TCP, UDP, or Unix socket for something, which means Twisted
is a tool you're likely to be evaluating anyway.
------
stratomorph
I haven't tried this, but it sure looks handy. Writing a daemon is a common
task, but not so often (for me, anyway) that it feels like copy-and-pasting
the same boilerplate every time. So, I ignore the old rule that says "if
you're going to do it more than once, write a program to do it for you". I
always end up writing a one-off prototype for my own personal use, and then
upgrading it to be a daemon, and I make the same Google searches every time.
I'll have to try this next time.
~~~
mahmud
writing a daemon is not necessarily a repetitive process, all the stuff that
you "have to do" are driven by engineering demands. You have to think of them
consciously before you do each one and there is no particular number of them
and no particular order, it's all dictated by your application: when to fork
and let the parent die? when to give up terminal? change directory?
reset/change umask? what file descriptors to close which ones to open and what
to keep? logging? other IPC channels for client apps? etc.
this stuff is not cruft or boiler-plate is it? also, you shouldn't be writing
daemons so often as to need a framework, and if you do, you better understand
all that goes into it.
~~~
stratomorph
I agree that it's not boiler-plate, and I don't mean that I do it all that
often, maybe every six months or so when I find something new I want my home
server to do. (Like the last one, experimenting with port knocking) I am by no
means a professional programmer, that's why I find myself making the same
searches.
~~~
mahmud
Cheers! didn't mean to come off so nanny-like ;-)
------
tzury
This one is the one I use for several applications
[http://www.jejik.com/articles/2007/02/a_simple_unix_linux_da...](http://www.jejik.com/articles/2007/02/a_simple_unix_linux_daemon_in_python/)
------
zurla
if you're using ruby, check out daemons and especially daemon-kit which
includes a nice rapleaf patch to daemons
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Journalists and the free press are under attack around the world - burnaway
https://theprivacyissue.com/privacy-and-society/countries-attack-free-press
======
skitout
There are some problems in France too.. With legal problems for journalist
releasing information about French arms in Yemen for example, police officer
specifically targeting journalist during protests (attacks against them or
their material, long identity check or arrest)...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The startup pitch generatr. - shabda
http://startuppitch.appspot.com/
======
redorb
I think the ideas are good, now for the execution. As the years go by (only 23
of them) - I find people can make an average idea fabulous; although the wrong
people can make a good idea bad;
------
chrisbroadfoot
| p2p IM infrastructure that leverages the basic human need to connect.
I think that might have been done.
------
icky
> p2p IM Firefox extension that leverages a collapsing IP regime.
Sounds reasonable. :)
~~~
shabda
> Sounds reasonable. :) Isn't this scary?
~~~
mixmax
Tells you how much an idea is worth, and how much is execution.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Slog: Cheating the low-latency vs. strict serializability tradeoff - evanweaver
http://dbmsmusings.blogspot.com/2019/10/introducing-slog-cheating-low-latency.html
======
taldo
How is Slog different (or better) than multiple asynchronously-replicated
regional deployments of Spanner? Or, even simpler, a single Spanner deployment
where different sets of groups have different replication configurations. That
is, in fact, a fairly common deployment of Spanner internally at Google, with
different sets of voting replicas for data that's most frequently accessed
from different places. As an example: Paxos groups that host European users'
data have a quorum of voting replicas in the EU, while groups that host US
users' data have a quorum of voting replicas in the US. Data can be explicitly
moved across these different sets of groups, e.g., in response to a user
changing the location of their accesses. All the normal location resolution
methods still work as in the simple case of uniform replication configurations
(see Directories and Placement section in the original OSDI 2012 paper).
~~~
teraflop
The paper [1] compares Slog against Spanner, both in theoretical terms and
using benchmarks. If I'm understanding the paper correctly, I think it makes
sense why Slog is better -- or at least, can do better in theory.
Both systems operate very similarly for _local_ transactions that only touch
data "owned" by a single master region; they just relay the transaction to be
executed by the master. For multi-region transactions, Spanner uses a
coordinator to perform two-phase commit, which acquires locks on all regions
before allowing the transaction to proceed.
Slog does something similar, but effectively _pipelines_ the locking to
achieve higher throughput. First there's a global coordination step that
globally-orders the transaction, without any locking (which means this step
can use batching for high throughput). Then, each region's master
independently acquires _local_ locks in that global order, and replicates
those locks as transactions so that replicas can deterministically apply them
in the same order. Finally, each replica independently executes the
transaction once it sees that all of the locks have been acquired. So a lock
blocks the _execution_ of conflicting transactions, but it doesn't block their
_replication_. Once the replication is done, the locking overhead of actually
executing the transactions should be comparable to a non-distributed DB.
All of this communication has a latency penalty, of course; there's no
avoiding that for a consistent distributed DB. But the point is that it
provides better throughput for transactions with conflicts. For transactions
that only touch one region, the latency is still just a single round-trip to
the master region, and that can be very fast if your client locality is high.
The benchmark results are heavily normalized, since it wasn't possible to do
an apples-to-apples comparison on the same replication topology. So they don't
demonstrate convincingly that Slog is _faster_ than Spanner, in numerical
terms. However, they do show that Spanner's throughput drops off much more
quickly with increasing contention, compared to Slog.
[1]:
[http://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol12/p1747-ren.pdf](http://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol12/p1747-ren.pdf)
------
jumpingmice
"Cheating" is doing all of the work here. They are sending transactions to
their "home location" which is worst case all the way on the other side of the
planet and then they are only counting the time to apply the transaction at
that location, instead of including the latency between the client and the
homed frontend. So it's low latency if you draw the system boundaries in such
a way but from the perspective of the client it's still high latency.
~~~
abadid
Latency is measured from the client. In the example in the post (and more
details in the paper), you see the latency tail from when clients access data
that is far from them. The challenge is to make multi-home transactions no
worse than regular Paxos latency. In previous systems, this required multiple
rounds of communication across the homes that are involved in that
transaction. In systems like PNUTS, they would disable such transactions
altogether. SLOG's ability to handle such transactions with latency no worse
than Paxos is a big step forward.
------
kcolford
It feels like they've snuck in an element of deterministic databases. This
would explain why they don't take the penalty of the 2-phase commit round-
trips. What's more interesting is how they've implemented this by just waiting
for sufficient replica updates to appear in the database until they're
confident in being strictly serializable. Of course, if those updates don't
make it because of a network partition then the transaction will hang until
it's over. Hopefully they really can count on there never being a network
partition. Then again, a network partition would halt all related multi-homed
transactions anyway so I guess it's a moot point.
~~~
abadid
Yes --- the post explicitly states that deterministic execution is a
prerequisite.
SLOG is CP from CAP, so indeed suffers from unavailability in the event of a
network partition.
------
karmakaze
CockroachDB has a different cheat where the voting nodes would "follow the
sun" as different regions would be the most highly active at different times
of a 24h period. This has then been generalized to "follow the work" where
each voting range keeps its voting nodes near the location of high activity.
I'd like to see how this benchmarks to Slog.
~~~
abadid
See what I wrote below regarding Spanner. The same thing applies to the
CockroachDB solution. If you run 2PC for multi-region transactions that is
very slow (increases latency), and prevents conflicting transactions from
running for longer periods of time (decreases throughput).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Researchers capture footage of fluid behaving like a solid - bookofjoe
https://www.swansea.ac.uk/press-office/news-events/news/2020/08/researchers-capture-footage-of-fluid-behaving-like-a-solid.php
======
bookofjoe
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/swanseauniversity/50225688336/...](https://www.flickr.com/photos/swanseauniversity/50225688336/in/dateposted/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google Chrome: Flash Usage Declines from 80% in 2014 to Under 8% Today - coloneltcb
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/google-chrome-flash-usage-declines-from-80-percent-in-2014-to-under-8-percent-today/
======
ehfeng
Testament to Google Finance's abandonment: still using Flash.
~~~
cjhanks
Yeah, a real shame too. I really liked the simplicity of `finance.google.com`.
It appears new development has been done at `google.com/finance`... a
different interface with less information.
And it surprisingly still uses flash. So.. who knows when it will die?
------
bearcobra
Chromes click-to-run model is broken for half the sites where I still need
flash. I've almost switched to Firefox to deal with it
------
hartator
I don’t fully get the hate on Flash. We have shifted the CPU usage from the
extension to the browser, with less capabilites than Flash. No sure if the web
is a winner here.
~~~
grzm
It generally boils down to one or more of:
\- closed and proprietary
\- has vulnerabilities
\- could be resource intensive
Here's an article (from 2015) which discusses it more.
[https://www.wired.com/2015/07/adobe-flash-player-
die/](https://www.wired.com/2015/07/adobe-flash-player-die/)
~~~
koolba
That second one needs to be in all caps, bold, and repeated about a dozen
times.
~~~
taeric
I'm curious that we couldn't harden flash runtimes.
~~~
y4mi
because it was
> \- closed and proprietary
~~~
taeric
Pretty sure the format was more open than this statement makes it sound. More,
I doubt it would have been too expensive (compared to the alternative costs,
it isn't like the other formats have been free), to make open.
And, there were certainly some features that were insecure by design. I cannot
defend all of it. Nor am I intending to really defend any of it. However,
there are more than a few warts in in HTML/JavaScript that were insecure-ish
by design.
------
greedo
I wish the plethora of enterprise software I have to deal with on a daily
basis didn't require Flash (I'm looking at you, ADP).
------
payne92
Open always wins, given enough time.
~~~
mrlatinos
*Google always wins, given enough market share.
~~~
clouddrover
Not really. For example, I wouldn't call Native Client a success. asm.js and
WebAssembly won out over it. Here's the Native Client deprecation
announcement:
[https://developer.chrome.com/native-
client/migration](https://developer.chrome.com/native-client/migration)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WebAssembly without the browser - pacificat0r
https://alexene.dev/2020/08/17/webassembly-without-the-browser-part-1.html
======
tess0r
Author of wasmex[1] here (an elixir package which allows runnung WASM).
Next to the mentioned wasmtime, wasm3, and wamr, there is also wasmer[2] I
would add to the list of capable WASM runtimes.
The great things these runtimes offer are how easy they are to integrate into
other programming languages environments. E.g. with wasmex you could easily
run WASM from your elixir application (or with wasmer from ruby[3] or many
other languages if you want).
Imagine building shopify, but without needing to invent your own template
language for customers to extend their shop-template[4]. They could provide a
WASM extension API where shop-owners could let sandboxed WASM files render
their shop. This would let allow shop-owners to write templates in their
favorite language instead of e.g. liquid and still be secure.
[1] [https://github.com/tessi/wasmex/](https://github.com/tessi/wasmex/) [2]
[https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer](https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer) [3]
[https://rubygems.org/gems/wasmer](https://rubygems.org/gems/wasmer) [4]
[https://github.com/Shopify/liquid](https://github.com/Shopify/liquid)
------
hardwaregeek
One area that I'm hoping WebAssembly will help with is running native
extensions in a portable sandbox. That way libraries like nokogiri can be
compiled to wasm ahead of time, then executed on a wasm runtime. There will be
a perf hit but not having to wait for nokogiri to compile native extensions
will be worth it.
~~~
jnwatson
I think the ability to run unknown code in a sandbox is probably the most
interesting use case. This is particularly compelling in P2P computing
projects.
~~~
enos_feedler
I am really hoping the mobile platforms like iOS offer pure wasm sandbox APIs
for this use case. This could be a powerful way to support programmability,
app extensions, etc outside of the appstore. It could appease both Apple for
security and developers for flexibility.
~~~
millstone
What is the advantage of wasm sandbox over the native sandbox?
~~~
afiori
proponents of wasm claim that the wasm sandbox was designed with security in
mind from the very start. From apple point of view they could offer a runtime
with very specific and limited permissions and trust that the plug-ins will
respect them.
------
follower
Interested to see a number of people mention one of the attractions with
WebAssembly being the sandbox &customisation angles.
Sandboxed in-game avatar customisation was one of the motivations behind the
"WebAssembly Calling Card" (WACC) project I released within the past couple of
weeks, posted a Show HN here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24072304](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24072304)
"WACC: Like an avatar but WASM!"
The WACC specification defines how three 32-bit ints (returned via 3 calls to
a function in a WASM module) get turned into triangles:
* 256x256 coord system.
* 15 bit color + 1 bit alpha per vertex triangles.
* 1 FPS!
In part, WACC & the WACC Viewer app is a demonstration of a WIP add-on for the
Godot game engine that wraps the libwasmtime WebAssembly runtime so desktop
Godot games/apps can call functions in WebAssembly modules. (The other demo
app is a tool to help explore `.wasm` files:
[https://gitlab.com/RancidBacon/wasm-
exploder](https://gitlab.com/RancidBacon/wasm-exploder))
The other main goal with WACC is to provide more visually interesting "first
run" experiences for people embedding WASM runtimes and/or provide a creative
outlet for starting to play around with generating/writing WebAssembly.
So, if you're interested in playing around with some non-browser WASM you
might like to have a play with WACC--maybe implement the spec for a different
host or create your own Calling Card. (I would particularly like to see it
running on standalone hardware like a badge or similar.)
Main site here: [https://wacc.rancidbacon.com/](https://wacc.rancidbacon.com/)
------
pansa2
> _This is powerful because you [can] use Rust or C++ as your scripting
> language._
Do people really want to use such complex, heavyweight languages for
scripting?
> _WebAssembly enables predictable and stable performance because it doesn’t
> require garbage collection like the usual options (LUA /JavaScript)._
Do garbage collection pauses cause significant issues when embedding Lua or
JavaScript? If so, I would expect implementations of those languages to switch
to reference counting, but none of them are doing so.
> _Extremely fast programs in environments where you can’t JIT for reasons._
To get good performance, don't WebAssembly implementations need to use JIT-
compilation internally?
~~~
danShumway
> Do people really want to use such complex, heavyweight languages for
> scripting?
This is a surprising reaction to me, given the history of Javascript and
NodeJS in general, but you're not the only person I've seen bring this up.
Ask yourself, 'do people want to use such a strange, high-level language as
Javascript for programming servers?' Of course they do, because the primary
factor in choosing a language isn't whether or not it's perfectly suited for a
specific task, it's how familiar you are with it and how much tooling you
already have built up and available around it.
Being able to program your back-end and front-end in the same language is a
_massive_ productivity win. It allows you to do all kinds of cool things with
architecture and code reuse, and most importantly you don't need to switch
mental contexts as often while you're programming.
So if it was reasonable for JS devs to bring their scripting language to the
server, it is just as reasonable for Rust/C++ devs to want to bring their
server language to the browser. It's not about the language semantics; if
someone is primarily familiar with Rust then they'll be faster building web
apps in Rust than they would be in Javascript.
------
Shared404
This seems to me like WebAssembly works basically like Java, but the bytecode
can be compiled to from multiple languages.
Is this correct?
~~~
throwaway189262
It is like Java bytecode, but design geared more towards supporting C.
Wasm in many ways is dumb. They could have easily adopted CLR or JVM bytecode.
But no, the web is too "cool" for that. It's better to have a brand new VM
that's slower and missing GC and a standard library.
~~~
danShumway
> missing GC and a standard library.
Many of us consider these points to be features. We don't want a runtime
that's as complicated as CLR or JVM bytecode.
~~~
throwaway189262
Any popular VM inevitably becomes as complex as those. Look at V8, it's grown
into a JVM sized beast.
It would save countless hours of human effort to just adapt what's out there.
It will be a decade before WASM has the kind of support JVM and CLR do. By
then it will have the same huge codebase that causes vulnerabilities
------
rapidlua
I doubt that WASM is good as an embedded language, unless performance
requirements outweigh the inconvenience.
Dynamic languages are great for experimentation and exploring the system, e.g.
a console in the browser is the fantastic tool and web dev people tend to try
things there first. By embedding wasm, you are making tinkering with the
system you provide less enjoyable for your users.
One could argue that since many languages compile to wasm, you can pick
whichever suites you best. But in reality, you are probably limited to
languages with thin runtimes, e.g. Rust or C. Otherwise you will end up with a
huge wasm blob. Imagine, there are 2 Java extensions, a C# one and something
in Python, all running simultaneously. It means 3 different runtimes with a
footprint by far exceeding that of the application logic in an extension.
Another burden is the bridging between the host and an extension. Unlike lua
or js you can’t pass and inspect objects, the only option is to marshal data
as a byte blob. So if you were to pick up a language no one used to write
extensions for the particular application before, the very first think you
have to do is writing marshalers.
Last but not least, I disagree with the article calling S-expressions ugly and
strongly believe in the opposite.
~~~
flohofwoe
IMHO WASM is the perfect replacement for native plugin DLLs for DCC tools like
Maya or Photoshop (but not a replacement for a scripting interface which such
applications usually offer too in addition to DLL plugins).
Instead of having to distribute a multitude of DLLs for each OS/CPU
combination, you only distribute a single WASM module, and the WASM runtime
that's integrated into the DCC tool takes care of the platform-specific
details. And WASM is also easier to sandbox than DLLs, so a crash in the WASM
plugin can't take down the entire application.
~~~
eggsnbacon1
IMO in this regard WASM is pretty much the same as Java/C# except slower and
less mature.
In Java, distributing libraries as cross-platform "jars" is very common.
------
azakai
> WebAssembly enables predictable and stable performance because it doesn’t
> require garbage collection like the usual options (LUA/JavaScript).
GC is a small part of that - the much bigger factor is dynamic optimization is
necessary for fast Lua or JavaScript. Wasm is designed to not need that (like
most languages that are not dynamically typed).
~~~
wffurr
Some wasm runtimes, eg V8 and Spider monkey, do tiered compilation, where all
code is first compiled with a high throughput streaming compiler, and then
only the hot paths get recompiled with an optimizing compiler.
~~~
azakai
True, good point!
Tiered compilation in general does dynamic optimizations, definitely in
JavaScript (runtime type collection, etc.) but also to a lesser extent in C#
or Java (inlining, etc.). In wasm none of the tiers do dynamic optimizations
AFAIK, but tiered compilation definitely helps there too, mostly with startup
times.
------
jmnicolas
I'm not sure I understand the use case of the author. He mentions languages
(Rust, C++ etc) that can be natively compiled to (almost) any platform, so
what's the point of running them in web assembly ? Like Java write once run
everywhere ?
~~~
rmoriz
My speculation: WASM will be used as default for edge computing and further
cloud based containers. Cloud vendors will develop custom silicon optimized
for WASM that won't be available for general public, maybe on ARM or RISC-V.
~~~
MaxBarraclough
> custom silicon optimized for WASM
I doubt it. Like Java, WASM is intended to be used with an optimising JIT
compiler. It doesn't make sense to try to implement Java or WASM directly in
hardware.
ARM used to offer _Jazelle_ , which could run Java bytecode directly on the
CPU. It's now long dead. It makes more sense to use a sophisticated optimising
JIT to produce efficient machine-code, than to make hardware to directly run
an unoptimised IR.
~~~
rmoriz
I'm sure it is already in the works. WASM is the key to be independent of the
ISA and allows to switch to custom silicon without having the customers to
know. That's how cloud vendors will drive the future in the race to get
independent from x86 and ARM (very likely that a future owner of ARM will
limit the licensing business). So even if there is no performance gain
possible due to the reasons you have pointed out, it's probably the
abstraction layer of the future for pretty much everything.
~~~
MaxBarraclough
> I'm sure it is already in the works.
Why? As I just said, this kind of hardware approach doesn't make technical
sense.
> WASM is the key to be independent of the ISA and allows to switch to custom
> silicon without having the customers to know.
We already have ISA-independence with JavaScript, Java bytecode, .Net, Python,
and other high-level languages.
Again, WASM isn't intended for direct execution on hardware, it's intended to
be fed to an optimising JIT compiler. Direct execution on hardware isn't how
you get good performance out of an IR like this.
> That's how cloud vendors will drive the future in the race to get
> independent from x86 and ARM
I don't think cloud vendors care all that much who they buy their CPUs from.
AWS offer instances on Intel, AMD, and ARM CPUs. If they really want ISA-
freedom, their best bet is RISC-V.
> even if there is no performance gain possible due to the reasons you have
> pointed out, it's probably the abstraction layer of the future for pretty
> much everything.
There will never be a single abstraction layer for everything. Compiler
engineering doesn't work that way.
------
devwastaken
Without proper security audits on wasms runtimes they can only be used as
hypothetical tools. The main purpose of wasm is a sandbox that's well defined,
but that doesn't matter if it's implimentations are vulnerable.
You could use it to just "deploy software anywhere", and that's a neat idea,
but it's not 'web' assembly, there's no protections thst make it fit to run
arbitrary code from the web.
------
erlend_sh
There’s a working proof of concept of WASM as a scripting foundation in a WIP
programming game called Robot Rumble:
[https://github.com/robot-rumble](https://github.com/robot-rumble)
[https://rr-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/technical-details.h...](https://rr-
docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/technical-details.html)
~~~
eat_veggies
Are there screenshots or demos of what it's like to play? Their website is
down and their docs don't really have any cool pics.
------
sriku
(shameless plug)
I gave a talk, about a year ago, covering history of the problem statements
from which WASM was born and the various forms it is taking.
[https://labs.imaginea.com/talk-the-nuts-and-bolts-of-
webasse...](https://labs.imaginea.com/talk-the-nuts-and-bolts-of-webassembly/)
Welcome thoughts/comments/corrections/additions.
~~~
pacificat0r
This is a really good article. I will include it in my reading materials at
the end of the post :)
------
chrisweekly
I found this writeup to be fairly well-written and detailed, but I lack the
WebAssembly knowledge to comment on its other merits.
------
thdrdt
I wish things like this could be used to break free from mobile app stores.
Download a virtual machine via the app store and then run any app written in
any languages and compiled only once.
Almost like JAVA..
------
MPSimmons
Things like this is how we got NodeJS. Sigh.
~~~
Kye
I don't see how this is a problem. A lot of good came with the bad. This is
like when people complain about Visual Basic or PHP. They were awful in so
many ways, but they got a lot of people into programming, and those people did
a lot of cool things.
------
nicetryguy
If you are going to target WebAssembly outside of a browser environment, uh,
why not just target LLVM, GNU, or uh, you know, Assembly... X86_64 or ARM are
pretty standardized. Another part 1/1 "tutorial" with some brilliant insight
as per usual.
~~~
Skinney
LLVM bitcode is, I believe, not portable. Neither is Assembly. Nor are the
resulting binaries of that processed something that is run within a sandbox.
~~~
aerismio
This, i think webassembly is the sweet spot. It has portability but doesn't
have any opinion about how the code should be structured. No opinion about GC
or objects etc.
Works really really great with Rust.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Can I automate document gathering for research? - seanccox
I conduct research into companies and individuals – due diligence, litigation support, public records checks, and media scans.<p>I find that I often need to repeat searches on the same individuals at different websites and news archives, only to repeat the entire process again with a new name.<p>I haven't a programming background, so forgive me if I'm not using the right terms. I speculate that the process can be accomplished automatically by a webcrawler... though I'm not certain if that is the right solution, and I don't have a clear picture of what the risks in attempting to automate this process might be.<p>At the risk of being long-winded, here's a typical case. I'm given the name of the firm, it's principal management, and maybe a few articles from the company website. My task is to find out if anyone at the company has been accused of a crime, or whether the company has been sued or engaged in fraud. I open tabs in a browser for each of the main websites/databases I will search (chambers of commerce, trade registries, government websites, etc.). Then, one by one, I put each name into each tab and look for results, all the while saving copies of any relevant documents I find. At the end of it all, I piece together the story of the company or person, using the documents as support. This is the mundane part of the job – gathering the documents.<p>Is there a way to automate that process? Since I'm learning to code anyway, I'd like to try exploring a solution myself, but I'm not certain what language or process would be best for that. I'd love to hear the advice of the HN community.<p>Cheers,
-Sean
======
seanccox
Thanks for the advice. I'm taking a look at Selenium now.
I appreciate the plug for Feedity as well. Unfortunately, I don't think it's
the right tool for my needs. A lot of the resources I'm looking for are not
current, and once I've done the research, I don't generally have to research a
company or person again.
In the end, I decided that (for my purposes), Google's custom search engine
would suffice. It's not a perfect solution, but it seems like it will do the
trick for now.
Thanks again for the comments.
Cheers, -Sean
------
mahesh_gkumar
If most of your searches are happening on a browser, I would recommend
something like Selenium <http://docs.seleniumhq.org/> . Its a browser testing
tool, but it can automate some of the things that you are looking to do.
Selenium can also be extended if you want to.
------
nreece
_(shameless plug)_ Checkout our service, Feedity - <http://feedity.com> to
create and subscribe to feeds for public webpages and use it for media
monitoring and market intelligence.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The arXiv of the future will not look like the arXiv - jmnicholson
https://dx.doi.org/10.22541/au.149693987.70506124
======
PaulHoule
The DOI always struck me as a scam. Instead of just keeping the document
available, you have to keep the document available AND keep the DOI pointed at
it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Can machine learning be used to reduce lag in video calls? - arikr
A friend of mine suggested that a generative model created at the start of a video call may be able to reduce audio and video lag during the call, particularly on a weak connection.<p>Do you agree?<p>Does Hangouts/Zoom/FaceTime/Skype do this yet?
======
kevinsimper
Zoom is much better than Hangouts because it is allowed to use UDP where
Hangouts uses the browser and uses TCP which means that Zoom can continue
quicker with slow packages or just discard them where Hangout has to get all
the packages.
------
db48x
No, you can't reduce lag by adding new layers on top of an existing system.
You could use it to reduce the bandwidth required, which would certainly make
video calls better. This was even a plot point in Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon
the Deep.
------
cody8295
Pretty off topic but I've always wondered if AI could help reduce
static/interference in live radio streams
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do I save the stories for future reference? - jestinjoy1
I use both Hacker News and Reddit equally. Reddit has a feature for saving stories. Whether something like that exist or hacker news has plans for it. I could see up-voted and commented stories in my settings
======
jamesbritt
Up-vote a story, then find them under "Saved stories" on your profile page.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What it means to be an entrepreneur - cominatchu
http://evbeard.com/posts/to-be-an-entrepreneur/
======
donaq
Let's not over romanticize or aggrandize what an entrepreneur is.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Unsplash releases biggest tagged image dataset - alizhd
https://github.com/unsplash/datasets
======
alizhd
We are excited to launch this dataset to help with innovations that are on-
going with ML research. The lite dataset contains 25k nature-themed Unsplash
photos, 25k keywords, and 1M searches. The full dataset contains 2M+ high-
quality Unsplash photos, 5M keywords, and over 250M searches.
~~~
internet1123445
Very cool! Quick question‐when unsplash first started, the images used cc
licenses. What happened to those images? Did they get switched to the new
unsplash license, or are they still cc licensed? Is this information contained
in the dataset?
------
mceachen
Unsplash is an amazing service (my website uses many, with credit), but the
tags are often wrong.
Have you thought about letting the creators and people with sufficient "karma"
downvote incorrect tags, and suggest new tags (perhaps from an edited, limited
ontology?)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hacker News Highlights, the Alan Kay Edition - craigcannon
http://themacro.com/articles/2016/06/hn-highlights-june-4/
======
nickpsecurity
This was already useful with him saying that Barton was a brilliant engineer.
I have one paper with his name on it, sent by pjmlp, that describes his design
of modern computing:
[https://de.scribd.com/doc/61812037/Barton-B5000](https://de.scribd.com/doc/61812037/Barton-B5000)
He describes need for ALGOL-like programming languages, how they'll be
implemented, training people, and early notions of hardware/software co-
design. Also, touches on various aspects of ALGOL that could be turned into a
CPU. Later, helps design and build one that's essentially the first, business
mainframe plus the first of mostly-safe, truly-engineered computers.
[http://www.smecc.org/The%20Architecture%20%20of%20the%20Burr...](http://www.smecc.org/The%20Architecture%20%20of%20the%20Burroughs%20B-5000.htm)
Later, another Burroughs guy, Anderson, uses similar engineering mindset
invents INFOSEC per Roger Schell who expanded on his work. Another hired by
Intel puts the MMU and segments in there to give security developers a chance.
All may ultimately trace to Barton's work and framework for thinking about
machines from high-level to hardware. Worth highlighting and becoming more
clear thanks to Kay's little remark that tells me who brains of operation
probably was among many author's names I see in various places.
Has Wikipedia page it turns out:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Barton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Barton)
Note: Reading this, he _may_ be the inventor of practical, abstract machines
as computing solutions. He also taught lots of success stories in industry.
Wonder what else he would've done if he stayed in industry.
~~~
alankay1
Bob Barton is in a class of early computer people I don't think can be over-
praised. However, just to put a caution on the hyperbole, I had been a
journeyman programmer in the Air Force and then at NCAR -- the latter to work
my way through the last two years of college -- and I just "didn't know
anything" except how to code a little and design a little. When I got to grad
school 50 years ago in 1966, I was immediately confronted by Ivan Sutherland's
Sketchpad, the first Simula, many other things in the actual field, and
especially in the ARPA community, and ... Bob Barton himself, who Dave Evans
had convinced to be on the Utah faculty for a few years (something he was
uncomfortable with).
In any case, this was like someone going from the 10th century to the 20th
century, where as Arthur C Clarke pointed out, "Advanced science resembles
magic". I am quite surprised 50 years later to still feel the same way about
these people, but my initial impressions have stuck. They seemed and do seem:
magical.
I've described Bob a little in "The Early History of Smalltalk" that I wrote
for the ACM in 1993
[http://worrydream.com/EarlyHistoryOfSmalltalk/](http://worrydream.com/EarlyHistoryOfSmalltalk/).
A truly amazing character (and I should try to write a portrait of him at some
point).
Both the details, and especially the overall design philosophy of the
Burroughs machines are worth close study. What was attempted in the B5000 and
B5500 was breathtaking, and as is often the case, perhaps too much in a few
places (this happened in the later Flex Machine as well, and in the much later
Intel 432).
At Parc in the 70s we were able to take a second pass at "higher level
architectures" (and so did Bob Barton at Burroughs with the B1700) via mixing
microcode with fixed functions.
The Parc approach was much simpler and less comprehensive (had to work on
relatively inexpensive personal computers, and we had a truly wonderful
engineering mind in Chuck Thacker who was instrumental in retaining powerful
ideas in a parsimonious fashion).
But this hybrid turned out extremely well for a wide variety of needs to make
"well-fitted-processors" for higher level languages. Part of the need for the
hybrid was to tinker with various kinds of storage schemes, formats, garbage
collection, swapping, etc., that were not well understood enough to be put
directly into hardware (this was one of the two or three slight flaws in the
B5000 scheme).
I commend the "The Approach ..." (1961) paper listed above as one of the great
papers in our field -- and it must be in the top two or three for max content
in six pages. I should also note that Bob was a mathematician, thought like a
mathematician, and designed like a mathematician -- engineering was more of a
hobby for him (and not one that he always paid a lot of attention to). I had
some of the same "hangups" \-- including being a constant reader of everything
-- and these were part of the basis of our relationship.
~~~
nickpsecurity
"I've described Bob a little in "The Early History of Smalltalk" that I wrote
for the ACM in 1993"
That was an amazing read. So much connects now. I'm going to have to think on
it as it's a lot to take in for one morning. I do spot some things to
immediately reference.
"They seemed and do seem: magical."
Well, when I read the paper I linked, it does look like so much then-unheard-
of stuff compressed into one, short document that magic is apt description. It
led to B5000. Not just that, though. Your Smalltalk history showed it also
helped shape OOP and your work. A Roger Schell interview showed INFOSEC
basically started with Anderson: a Burroughs engineer that looked at people,
software, and hardware to find systemic, security risk. Their methods are
similar to Barton's w/ different perspective. I bet Anderson's thinking traces
to it & Burroughs B5000. So, Barton seemingly out of thin air hits all kinds
of critical points in concept space of IT, helps put them into a demo (B5000),
and its ripple effects help create OOP (indirectly) and INFOSEC (directly).
Fair to call it magic as most people were more narrow and incremental with
nowhere near as much impact.
" I should also note that Bob was a mathematician, thought like a
mathematician, and designed like a mathematician"
That makes a lot of sense. His work resembles high-assurance a bit in that he
worked from clear specs of what it had to do to primitives that could do it to
right combination of pieces. It's like he was formulating and solving
equations for high-level programming itself. It's why I originally skipped the
paper because I wasn't mathematical enough to read some of it. Then, your HN
comment said Barton, I had _one_ paper with that name, and now all kinds of
light bulbs are turning on. :)
Speaking of people doing magic, I landed on Margaret Hamilton's team a year or
two ago:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_%28scientist...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_%28scientist%29)
[http://htius.com/Articles/articles.htm](http://htius.com/Articles/articles.htm)
The "Lessons learned from Apollo" paper suggests they were similarly working
in a vacuum around same time as Burroughs stuff was coming out. Invented all
sorts of engineering and software principles in the process. Are you aware of
any others work that went into that or any influence of such work on your side
of the fence? As in, was her team's work... especially person-high stack of
correct code... as independent and ground-breaking as it appears? Or building
on prior work in a way we just haven't seen?
Just curious as I've tied INFOSEC, Burroughs, and your work but not sure how
her work or legacy fit into the larger picture. Outside safety-critical
systems that is.
" the later Flex Machine as well"
Is the Flex Machine with tagged hardware and Ten15 VM the same as yours or
different? Yours mentioned an "aerospace" company. In any case, I wish I had
more details on both as they seem like an extension on Burroughs thinking that
sort of appeared and then disappeared. I think a HW-accelerated Ten15 could be
valuable today. Even if it was an imperative-style RISC + one customized for
functional stuff with a clean IPC or functional call mechanisms to integrate
anything written for both.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_machine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_machine)
"via mixing microcode with fixed functions."
I keep recommending groups doing RISC-V, etc to use microcode instead of
fixed. The reason being old work showed microcoded processors could be
repurposed to do many things. The microcode was also used for speed boosts and
atomic execution of arbitrary, instruction sequences. Do you second the
recommendation of keeping microcode in CPU's wherever possible?
" Part of the need for the hybrid was to tinker with various kinds of storage
schemes, formats, garbage collection, swapping, etc., that were not well
understood enough to be put directly into hardware"
Here's the two leading candidates that are the successors of Burroughs and
capability-oriented systems:
[http://www.crash-safe.org/papers.html](http://www.crash-safe.org/papers.html)
[https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/](https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/)
SAFE combines tagged architecture, functional programming, and a device for
arbitrary, policy expression and enforcement. It's clean-slate with strong
properties. CHERI implements a capability architecture that allows fine-
grained enforcement and C compatibility. Runs CheriBSD, a FreeBSD port. I see
CHERI as an interim solution with SAFE going in direction of more, ideal
system. I think they can be mixed. Yet, I think CHERI might not be thorough
enough and SAFE is more complex than needed. I thought a subset of SAFE could
run an Oberon System port with instant practicality.
So, here's what lines I'm thinking along that I'd like to run by you. I
started with i432 successor, the i960. The manual has nice reference of its
capabilities. Amazing compromise between an i432 and a RISC.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960)
What it had was common RISC stuff you can run anything with, MMU, _error
handling_ of common errors, and _object descriptors_ for OOP constructions or
POLA enforcement. The other thing it had was _speed_ despite all that. So,
start with something like that for RISC-V or OpenSPARC. Implement, a la B5000
or SAFE, some specific, tiny-cost checks for basic primitives: pointer/array
bounds-checks; stack protection if it has one; code vs data tag (or Itanium-
style read/write/execute per word or page); labeling & protection of pointers
themselves. These checks run in parallel in tiny HW as CPU runs so essentially
no overhead. IOMMU auto-manages tagging of incoming or outgoing I/O data to
fit the model. Any failure takes CPU to exception handler with access to
relevant data. Optional, dedicated HW for concurrent GC possibly built-in to
MMU like some LISP machines. Implemented either clean-slate or with
configurable, open CPU like Gaisler's Leon3.
It seems those minimal, primitive protections knock out 90+% of the problems.
Functional can be mapped to them. Extra error handling or object descriptors,
like in i960, do much more while avoiding heavy-weight constructions. I think
this is a nice start. I have primitives for safe concurrency, too. What do you
think is absolute minimum, safe primitives on top of that we need for OOP like
a safe Smalltalk? I don't do dynamic, late binding, or any of that currently.
I don't know if it needs special consideration in HW or if prior HW above
could handle it with compiler doing all that. Anything come to mind?
And thanks for the time and helping me connect dots in IT history. :)
~~~
alankay1
I'll try to reply to this in sections. One way to think of "magic" is height
of leap. Newton had something before him, but his leap was cosmic. I don't
think we've had a Newton yet in computing, but we have had some cosmic leaps.
Just to pick a few: Sketchpad, Lisp, and the B5000 ideas all had something
before them, but their leaps were enormous.
In the "Early History of Smalltalk" I mentioned that I had seen and partly
learned the B5000 while in the Air Force ca 1963. I say "partly" because I
didn't understand all the implications until a few years later in grad school.
For example, I did understand what was great about the byte codes and stack
mechanisms, but it took until later to really grok that the machine was
organized so that environments and access were -granted-, and that the
protected tagged pointers -- Descriptors -- could not be forged, and that the
actual code contained no addresses. (This was the real start of "capability-
style protection.) Also, the multi-tasking OS -- written in an Extended Algol
-- was not just the first OS in a higher level language, but was more profound
than Algol (it was "Simula" before Simula). This was done extremely well
because -- and most people don't realize this -- the B5000 had multiple CPUs!
More in a next note ...
~~~
alankay1
I've been a huge fan of Margaret Hamilton for a long time. Her story is in
many ways what can be wonderful about great design and creation by really
smart and able people, and so disappointing about our not-quite-a-field. (And
if you want a tough computer to code and make a great system for, look no
further than the Apollo Guidance Computer!)
I think that a mainframe computer like the B5000 (or more conventional
mainframe) was just too much machinery back then to overlap much with the
needs of Apollo). Hamilton realized that a really good notion of "module"
would help tremendously with integrity, and that the OS should have an active
"overlord" to dynamically assess and deal with real-time conditions and needs
for resources. I think this was just amazingly brilliant work for that time
(and any time). NASA did give her a major award (but where was the ACM?).
I've never had the pleasure of talking with her, but I have a feeling that
NASA could also have done something to encourage her ideas to be more
communicated and put out into the open.
~~~
alankay1
"Flex" has been a very popular label for computer systems. I was referring to
an early desktop computer done by Ed Cheadle and myself in the late 60s for a
company owned by LTV (Ling Tempco Vought -- an aerospace conglomerate).
The one you are referring to was done in the 80s in the UK (I think). I recall
that there were many good things about this system, and it did use microcode
in a rather similar way to Parc in the 70s. Wasn't one of the machines they
used a PERQ (which was an Alto spinoff by some CMU folks)?
I think I recall -- as with the Intel 432 -- they bit off more than they could
chew, and tried to optimize too many things.
~~~
alankay1
The final part is about "microcode" etc. in being able to get the most
flexibility/performance from hardware. A good heuristic is to look far out (30
years) for "It would be ridiculous if we didn't have ...". See what any of
those might mean 10-15 years out. Simulate the promising ones of these today
using $ to pay for what Moore's Law and other engineering will provide at
lower cost in the future. This will give a platform today on which the
software of the future can be invented, developed, and tested. (This is what
we did to get the Alto at Parc -- and this is what it was -- in the mid 70s an
Alto cost about $22K -- about $120K today. But it allowed the software of the
future to be invented.)
Microcode (invented long long ago by Maurice Wilkes, who did the EDSAC,
arguably the first real programmable computer) used the argument that if you
can make a small amount of memory plus CPU machinery be much faster than main
memory, then you can successfully program "machine-level" functionality as
though it were just hardware. For example, the Alto could execute about 5
microinstructions for every main memory cycle -- this allowed us to make
emulators that were "as fast as they could be".
This fit in well with the nature, speed, capacity, etc of the memory available
at the time. But "life is not linear", so we have to look around carefully
each time we set out to design something. As Butler Lampson has pointed out,
one of the things that make good systems design very difficult is that the
exponentials involved every few years mean that major design rules may not
still obtain just a few years later.
So, I would point you here to FPGAs and their current capacities, especially
for comingling processing and memory elements (they are the same) in highly
parallel architectures. Chuck Thacker, who was mainly responsible for most of
the hardware (and more) at Parc, did the world a service by designing the
BEE-3 as "an Alto for today" in the form of a number of large FPGA chips plus
other goodies. Very worth looking at!
The basic principle here is that "Hardware is just software crystallized
early" so it's always good to start off with what is essentially a pie in the
sky software architecture, and then start trying to see the best way to run
this in a particular day and time.
------
dang
We asked Alan to do an AMA a while ago and he said yes, but having him show up
to comment on the topic of a given thread is in a way even better. I thought
those comments were pure gold. If you missed them, take a look.
Alan and his group joining YC is the most mind-blowing thing to happen (for
me) since I started working on HN. No one has influenced me more in thinking
about computing, and his tireless work in talking about computing history
(especially the work and culture around ARPA) is a true service. Watching his
talks seems to be the only easy place to get that information, and when you
start doing it it's like one of those dreams where you enter into a wing of
your house that you didn't know existed.
Edit: One of my dreams for HN is for this community to become active in
recovering, learning, and extending the computing culture that Alan talks
about, which is so much more satisfying than the morass of complexity we
mostly find ourselves bogged down in.
~~~
wwweston
> it's like one of those dreams where you enter into a wing of your house that
> you didn't know existed.
Wait. How common is this?
(I've had these dreams semi-frequently over the last 3 years, but no one else
I've told about them has volunteered that they've had any similar experience.)
~~~
mancerayder
The dreams must be incremental. For example, for me, dreaming about a house so
big it has 'wings' is a latter-stage dream.
I'm still fantasizing about the German doors from the other HN thread this
week.
------
themartorana
On object "states" as recorded object history (snapshots in time?):
_" The just computed stable state is very useful. It will never be changed
again -- so it represents a "version" of the system simulation -- and it can
be safely used as value sources for the functional transitions to the next
stable state. It can also be used as sources for creating visualizations of
the world at that instant. The history can be used for debugging, undos, roll-
backs, etc._
_" In this model -- again partly from McCarthy, Strachey, Simula, etc., --
"time doesn't exist between stable states": the "clock" only advances when
each new state is completed. The CPU itself doesn't act as a clock as far as
programs are concerned. This gives rise to a very simple way to do
deterministic relationships that has an intrinsic and clean model of time._
_" For a variety of reasons -- none of them very good -- this way of being
safe lost out in the 60s in favor of allowing race conditions in imperative
programming and then trying to protect against them using terrible semaphores,
etc which can lead to lock ups."_
Oh, my kingdom for atomic, history-recording (and replayable) object states!
Safety existed in this fashion in the 60s!! I didn't know this, and now I'm
sad.
Race conditions continue to haunt us all to this day, especially as languages
start supporting concurrency and parallelism primitively. (Not to mention that
debugging race conditions is a nightmare - a nod to the Go language devs for
making clear a race condition caused a crash in the stack trace.)
~~~
pjmlp
You will be even more sad when you start researching the history of operating
systems and systems programming and discover the safety that we already had in
the 60's in systems like Burroughs that was destroyed by UNIX's industry
adoption.
~~~
m_mueller
And MacOS and Windows and and...
It's the "worse is better" approach or whatever that is called that set the
'not-quite-field' (thank you AK for this) back to where it started. To me it
feels like we are in a hamster wheel of constant reinvention rather than using
the software technologies of the 70ies (mainly from Xerox Parc) as a stepping
stone. And whenever the methodologies break down we cry for the next
framework/language/hardware platform to solve everything.
I for one would love to see a refresh about what is happening to OMeta and its
family of technologies developed at Viewpoint [1]. Is this still ongoing?
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbwOPzxuJ0s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbwOPzxuJ0s)
~~~
blihp
Here's a presentation, while chronologically earlier, that is specifically
about the Viewpoints STEPS project which includes a good segment on OMeta:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAT4iewOHDs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAT4iewOHDs)
As jgon mentioned, Alex (the author of OMeta) continues work on Ohm, his
successor to OMeta. Also, various flavors of OMeta implementations live on in
Smalltalk, Lisp, Javascript etc. Recently VPRI released their final annual
report to the NSF publicly with indications that work is ongoing. So there are
at least pockets of interest and activity.
~~~
m_mueller
That's actually the presentation I had in mind but I couldn't find it anymore.
Searching with Alan Kay as a keyword is not a big help xD. Thank you for
linking it. I'd love to play around with this stuff.
~~~
blihp
I can probably point you in the right direction for OMeta... what's you're
preferred dynamic language?
The other material is a bit tougher to come by as I don't believe Viewpoints
has released a code snapshot of what they've been working on to date. There
are bits and pieces in terms of code drops but mainly what they've released
are the NSF annual reports and various papers discussing aspects of STEPS on
the VPRI web site (i.e.
[http://vpri.org/html/writings.php](http://vpri.org/html/writings.php))
~~~
m_mueller
OMeta's successor library has been linked here, so that's not a problem. IMO
it's a shame that Professor Kay never fully adopted OSS. Their new way of
doing a whole OS sure is inspirational - I could even see it as a very
interesting basis as a successor to Linux.
------
dirtyaura
The "Alan Kay"-style moment of Hacker News for me was when I posted a link to
article describing sendfile, tcp_nodelay and tcp_nopush. The article referred
to Nagle's algorithm when describing tcp_nodelay and described the problem
incorrectly. And lo and behold, Nagle itself came to enlighten the uninformed.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9045125](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9045125)
~~~
dang
From later in that thread:
_It still bothers me that the Nagle algorithm (which I called tinygram
prevention) and delayed ACKs interact so badly._
Mark of a true engineer.
------
vonnik
Feature request: Let us follow HN users we like and have all their comments
show up in a feed.
~~~
hkmurakami
A friend of mine made a service that does this. (Iirc it's called HNwatcher)
I follow a small number of people with it and periodically get emails about
their new posts. I think some companies use it to track mentions of their
company or product as well.
A follow feature would be nice but this is currently filling the gap for me.
------
gavinpc
Dr. Kay, if you're still following... then with singular respect and gratitude
for your life-changing work and ideas, I would like to ask you one question.
Is there a good way to use bad systems?
Such as the web, which you describe as a “broken wheel,” lacking even a
fraction of (e.g.) Englebart's vision. Or Linux, which you call “a budget of
bad ideas.” (And no small budget, at that.) Or the iPad (and all common
tablets, I assume), whose interface you call “brain dead.”[0]
What should we do with these things? Are they dead ends? Are they good for
anything? Can they not be salvaged incrementally?
Here in the Hacker News community, where I am happy to see that my enthusiasm
about your work and message is strongly shared, there is yet a huge amount of
energy being poured into the wrong end of the low-pass filter, or, as you call
it, “the world.” I know that we are not averse to learning curves, but maybe
there is too much sunk cost to question what's already “working”? What should
we do?
One answer is to use bad systems to simulate better ones. But—when this is
even feasible—it's always done at the cost of performance, and VPRI's
publications make no secret of that. A proof-of-concept does not equal a
product. And at any rate, most of us are not researchers.
Because of this apparent dilemma, the exhiliration that I always feel when I
hear you speak or read your writing is always tainted with a sense of despair.
Is there any enlightened way to _use_ today's systems (for example, as
application developers), or should all of our efforts be directed at fixing
(or indeed replacing) the systems themselves?
Thank you again, for all that you've done and continue to do.
[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAghAJcO1o&t=28m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAghAJcO1o&t=28m)
[https://archive.org/details/130124AlanKayFull](https://archive.org/details/130124AlanKayFull)
And others. I believe that these quotes are representative and not misused out
of context.
~~~
alankay1
I just found your comment. One answer wrt e.g. Javascript is to use it as a
"machine code" and just put a whole better designed thing on top of it. Or try
to get the web world to get behind Native Client or something better that
allows a protected sandbox to be really developed into new facilities.
Another answer is to not to go back to Engelbart, but to at least start with
large ideas like his, and try to think of the Internet and Personal Computing
as something much more than a convenience -- but more as a "lifter" of
humanity. What would that mean?
Another ploy would be to simply think about what is needed close to the end-
users and to follow that back towards the plug in the wall (one hint is that
there is no need to encounter a 60s style "operating system" \-- so what would
be much better in a real Internet universe?)
The main heuristic is to posit "I don't really know what I'm doing, and I'm
not a strong enough thinker, and 'You can't learn to see until you admit you
are blind, and etc." This is my starting place for trying to do real thinking
i.e. we aren't as smart as we need to be -- so we have to put real work and
method into thinking and design.
Tony Hoare had a good observation. He said that debugging is harder than
programming, so don't use all your abilities in programming, or you'll never
get the program working. We can extend that into design. Design is difficult,
but being able to assess one's designs is even harder -- leave something in
reserve to avoid simply making things because we can.
~~~
gavinpc
Thanks for your insights, Dr. Kay. I appreciate your taking the time to reply.
For context, I was recently struggling with these questions in trying to
rationalize a Shakespeare project (on current-day systems) as being good for
humanity. In the section "why new media," I rely on your and Bret Victor's
ideas as a standard for making that argument.[0]
Thanks again.
[0]
[http://gavinpc.com/project_willshake.pdf](http://gavinpc.com/project_willshake.pdf)
------
justin66
Alan Kay's response to the Dijkstra quote was wonderful. I'd always
appreciated Kay's calling out Dijkstra, but that he was amused and not angered
by Dijkstra's attitude is great.
------
JepZ
Since one of my professors forced all students to learn Smalltalk I deeply
respect Alan Kay. This language is so consistent and readable at the same
time. Whenever I heard a story of him or saw something he had done this
respect grows.
But somehow I stick to code in golang in my spare time. I am afraid I will
never see a language designed by Alan Kay and Ken Thompson together ;-)
Thx for the HN Alan Kay Edition
~~~
vanderZwan
Have you tried Pharo[0], which is trying to be a modern Smalltalk-like? There
is a free online course[1] going on at the moment as well (French videos but
subtitled), it's really good.
[0] [http://pharo.org/](http://pharo.org/)
[1] [https://www.fun-mooc.fr/courses/inria/41010/session01/](https://www.fun-
mooc.fr/courses/inria/41010/session01/)
~~~
JepZ
Looks interessting, but I don't like those large IDEs and the image philosophy
neither. So for example I use vim instead of eclipse and I really like the
golang tooling, because it is quite simple to use from a shell.
What I like about Smalltalk is the language and how it is build on very few
principles. The IDEs integrate well with the language but not with the system
around them and have a lot of overhead :-/
~~~
nine_k
're very few principles: I suppose you're acquainted wild Scheme (Racket,
Clojure) and Forth?
------
dang
While we're at it, anybody else have a highlight they'd like us to add to that
list? Either recent or old is fine.
------
curiousgal
I don't know why I found this heart-warming. I love HN. :')
------
xufi
Thanks Alan for the Q&A. It was great to see you giving answers and your own
thoughts on aching questions we had. Glad to have you as part of HN
------
kenko
The idea that The Glass Bees is "little-known" is ... curious. It was
republished by New York Review Books, not exactly a small little press no
one's ever heard of.
~~~
dang
That was my entirely-unthought-through phrase in sending the link to Craig,
but I can tell you what I meant by it: I've heard of Ernst Junger and had no
idea of that book. I still think it's bizarre and cool that he wrote anything
like it (WWI novelist crossed with Philip K. Dick-level bizarre and cool),
which is why the comment struck me as a highlight.
But I think NYRB's press exists specifically to bring little-known things to
light. Ivy Compton-Burnett, anyone?
------
minimaxir
Er, the "Six Years of Hacker News Comments about Twilio" article was an
admitted troll by the OP.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11786464](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11786464)
~~~
dang
Ha, definitely a mistake. Thanks for the QA :)
(We use an internal chat channel to mention links for the highlight list, but
also lots of other stuff that shows up on HN on a given day. Probably the
streams got crossed.)
------
syngrog66
I am 99% confident of this, but would you clarify for us 100%: are you _that_
Alan Kay?
~~~
dang
It's definitely him. Let's not make him bother with authenticating himself.
We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11839876](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11839876)
and marked it off-topic.
~~~
alankay1
It's about Bob Barton, why would you mark it off topic?
~~~
dang
Hi Alan. The Barton comments couldn't be more on topic! The only comment
affected was the one asking you to prove that your account was really you,
since we know it's you and I could just say so. If you view the overall page
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11836832](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11836832))
you'll see that the Barton thread is still at the top, where it belongs.
The reason I did this was so the discussion could focus on the important thing
(Barton) and not the procedural thing (how do we know you're the real Alan).
This seems not to have entirely succeeded :)
Background: A weakness of the comment tree model is that an off-topic reply to
a top comment (like the Barton one) hangs near the top by virtue of its
parent. "Detached" here means snipping a child comment away from its parent
and making it a top-level comment in its own right, which then allows it to
fall in rank on the page. That's what I did in this case. Whenever we do that
we post a little mantra explaining what we did, along with a link to the
original parent, in case anyone wants to see the previous context.
~~~
alankay1
Thank you!
------
jcoffland
This over the top hero worship is part of the HN culture that I just can't get
behind. Alan Kay has an impressive resume but so do a lot of people on here.
Political rallying behind a famous name only leads to the hangers-on getting a
free ride to the top and keeps me standing far clear of the corporate world.
I'm here to discuss the latest news.
~~~
nekopa
But actually, according to the guidelines, this is not a news site. Anything
intellectually stimulating to hackers is fair game.
~~~
jcoffland
Sorry but Alan Kay's name dropping history does not stimulate me
intellectually.
~~~
teach
Then move on to a different thread. Don't demand that the rest of HN conform
to your desires.
~~~
jcoffland
What's the Internet for if I cannot demand it conform to my desires?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
‘Star Citizen,’ a video game that raised $300M but may never be ready to play - pseudolus
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/05/01/exclusive-the-saga-of-star-citizen-a-video-game-that-raised-300-millionbut-may-never-be-ready-to-play/#3d3007b75ac9
======
deadbunny
Eh, I chucked them $50 or whatever it was for what was clearly a 10+ year
project (at the time I gave them my money). I've had fun playing the modules
already released but if they never deliver a full game I can think of worse
things I've spend $50 on.
I've always seen crowd funding as chucking a little money at an idea that
interests you, if it works then cool, if not then it wasn't (and shouldn't
ever be) an amount I'm going to lose sleep over.
As for the people spending thousands of dollars on promised future digital
shiny things? I just don't understand it, why are you paying money for virtual
things that don't exist yet in a game that doesn't even exist yet? But then
I've never understood the (reasonably) recent trend for paying
hundreds/thousands of dollars on cosmetic items for games that you're actually
playing so maybe I'm missing something.
~~~
pjc50
Given the reception of No Man's Sky, I would say that the advantage of
spending money on things that will remain forever in the future is that they
will never disappoint you; they will remain Peter Pan objects, never to age or
confront reality. You're buying an aspiration, a dream, and if you can get
thousands to dream along with you, all the better. The real "game" is not some
bytes in a database nor pixels in the screen, it's in the head of the players,
and as such does not require physical referents to play. This makes it the
ultimate postmodern game.
Who needs virtual reality when you have hyperreality?
(I could go on like this but I refer you to Baudrillard on the hyper-real and
simulacra. Buying a virtual object that doesn't even have a virtual existence
is clearly a stage 4 "simulacra". This comment should not be taken entirely
seriously or literally, either.)
~~~
sgift
> Given the reception of No Man's Sky, I would say that the advantage of
> spending money on things that will remain forever in the future is that they
> will never disappoint you
I think it's important to add this: No Man's Sky turned out to be a great
game! It just took about a year longer than expected and in the meantime Hello
Games got the full fury of the internet. But they didn't stop. They buckled
down and worked on it. And it turned out just fine.
~~~
pjc50
Yes, I've got a good number of hours of enjoyment out of it - but only by
ignoring the hype and waiting until the first Steam discount. As a Roger Dean
art generator it's _fantastic_.
------
radcon
I was considering "pledging" to this game a year or two ago. Luckily I didn't,
and it was because the supporters on every SC forum were the most cult-like,
rabid fanboys I've ever encountered in the gaming world.
It felt like they were all using the same playbook to respond to any question
that could be considered negative. E.g. If you asked about the game being Pay-
to-Win, they'd all say "There's no such thing as winning an MMORPG, so it
can't be Pay-to-Win", which is an impressive feat of mental gymnastics when
literally everything in the game can already be purchased with real money.
There are people who have "invested" over $20,000 in this game. Other people
built gaming PCs _three years ago_ specifically to play it, most of which will
be woefully inadequate by the time it launches.
I hope someone makes a documentary about this one day. Or maybe that was Chris
Roberts' plan all along?
~~~
atoav
I never backed the game but I watch their dev videos on youtube from time to
time and quite enjoy doing so, because they are quite transparent about a lot
of issues as well as solutions they came up with. There are e.g. Episodes
where they specifically explain how they do project managment, which tools
they use etc.
From what I saw I didn’t have the feeling the game was in apathological state.
There seems to be a lot of movement (but it is a huge project).
Not sure if I would ever play it, but they came up with many interesting
solutions that seem to work better than many existing things out there and I
kinda like their way of sharing it without assuming the viewers are idiots
~~~
asdfasgasdgasdg
It started out in a pathological state, and it's been getting worse ever
since. The specific pathology is one of excessive scope. The game is trying to
do and be far too much, even with the level of funding they've gotten. They
seem to want to do Eve Online, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, and Halo, but all in one
game.
Eve Online alone took fifteen years to get where it's gotten, and probably
spent _much_ more than $300 million to do it over that time period. That's
just for one of the three things Star Citizen is trying to be. By the way,
it's a lot cheaper to build out a game like this when you do it gradually.
Doing anything fast is generally more expensive than doing it slow, because
you need a bigger team and there is consequently more coordination overhead
and risk. You also run less risk of building the wrong thing when you take it
slow, because you have an established player base that's telling you what it
wants.
------
newsgremlin
It's really frustrating because there are multiple great games that have come
out of kickstarter like hollow knight and hyper light drifter, but many people
getting burned by undelivered promises has halved the amount of money being
donated to video game related kickstarters between 2014 and 2016 [1]. There's
a lot of potential and there is a lot to lose if indie game companies do not
get the opportunity and resources to make great games that are competing
against an oversaturated and established and continual growing industry that
is focused on micro-transactions and further monetization of in-game content.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding_in_video_games#Re...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding_in_video_games#Reaction)
~~~
chupasaurus
The funniest example of a game from Kickstarter would be Elite: Dangerous - a
spacesim by a well-known author without most of the features Roberts tries to
deliver.
~~~
Razengan
What makes it the funniest example?
~~~
exelius
Because Elite delivers on a lot of the promises of Star Citizen, and it’s a
mature, actively supported game with a dedicated player base that you can buy
today. The fact that you can’t walk around with your avatar actually makes the
game more immersive; though you can deploy a rover on rocky planets without an
atmosphere. It’s lacking a lot of non-gameplay features, but the space flight
and combat systems are tight — the physics are accurate if you accept the
existence of “frame shift drives”.
I find any time you can walk around in an open world game, it ends up becoming
an MMORPG. Elite very much does _not_ feel like an MMO. You really only
encounter other players around major trading hubs and combat zones inside the
bubble, and even then not many due to the way they shard the instancing. Space
is empty and unforgiving.
~~~
jdc0589
as soon as VR headset resolution gets a little better (and we have GPUs that
can drive that higher res well), I might start spending a DANGEROUS amount of
time in Elite.
It's already incredible with the HTC Vive, and you definitely get used to how
it looks, but the resolution just isn't quite there (e.g. its especially
noticeable if you are trying to railgun someone from a significant distance)
~~~
exelius
It’s pretty boss on a Vive Pro. You’re right, the extra resolution and screen
refresh really help.
------
modeless
You can play Star Citizen for free this week with their "free fly" promotion:
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/promotions/35-Free-
Fly](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/promotions/35-Free-Fly)
I installed it last night. It's a ~40 GB download. Right from the start it's
very confusing and quite buggy. I'm sure there's some cool tech in there but
they need to work on the initial experience if they want to attract new
players with a free play week.
I also think it has "too much realism" disease. It's delivering on the dream
of a space simulator where you can wake up in your bunk, walk to the flight
deck, use the computer console to request your ship, walk to your assigned
landing pad, climb the ladder into your cockpit, run through a preflight
routine, and take off. But is all that fun?
~~~
jcastro
A friend and I bought some ships a few years ago because it looked neat and
the scope was so huge that it could be fun. We try it every point release to
see if we can spawn in the same area, get in a ship, and then go do stuff
together. We figure even if the game is unfinished, get some friends in a
ship, find some pirates, and we can make our own fun at least.
The most infuriating bits is the intense attention to detail and realism in an
alpha. For example, you can never just do stuff in the universe, you have to
put your character into a mode so you can interact with objects, so you can't
just like, open a door by hitting x like you do on a normal game, you have to
point your cursor to the handle and then hit a button, and so on. Take that to
the extreme and you find yourself spending tons of toil trying to figure out
how to do basic things like ... partying up with a friend. Oops, someone
opened the back door of the ship and Billy didn't have his helmet on, so he's
dead and respawns back at Port Olisar so it will take him 45m to get here,
except his ship is out of gas so he's stuck in space forever.
Those kinds of mechanics would be fun, in a _finished game_ where that was a
balanced, but for now even sending messages to people is annoying because each
and every interaction with the universe is via their little holodevice wrist
thing that looks cool, but is unusable.
In the past like 2-3 years we've never been able to successfully pile a group
of people into a ship and move from point A to point B. People do it all the
time in videos and stuff, but so far watching other people play on twitch is
much more fun than trying to do it yourself.
------
skocznymroczny
The main problem with Star Citizen, is that many of the crucial promised
gameplay elements seem to be impossible to realize nowadays, especially when
it comes to network architecture. Many MMO games struggle with 100 players
fighting each other in the same spot. Star Citizen promised hundreds of ships
fighting each other, each ship being a separate flying level with rooms,
ladders etc. and people running within. The expectation is that you can blow a
hole in the ship and then board it, all on a single game level, without any
loading screens or special modes.
I wish the design team had courage to say "No, we won't implement that".
Instead, everything that the players suggested was met with "That sounds
interesting, we'd like to have that in the game at some point". This leads to
unrealistic expectations. Many backers that haven't gave up yet have the
unrealistic idea of the game in their minds, one that will never flourish. A
game to end all games, a game in which you can be everyone, do everything.
Whether you want to flip burgers on a passenger liner or lead an army to
unexplored lands, Star Citizen has got you covered. Except it won't, because
it's struggling to deliver the basic gameplay loops.
------
lbj
"This is not fraud—Roberts really is working on a game—but it is incompetence
and mismanagement on a galactic scale."
Beautifully put.
~~~
m0llusk
It is only mismanagement if it is judged by common goals such as returns for
investors and shareholders or meeting deadlines for release to customers.
Instead Star Citizen gives priority to the quality and richness of experience
and have allowed that to determine the schedule.
Under any circumstances buying into a software prerelease is high risk. In
this case the project lead has described this as his dream project and spoken
of how quality will drive the schedule. Expecting such a strategy to deliver
early or even on time seems optimistic.
------
raesene9
If anyone's interested in the financial side of things, as the companies
involved are UK entities all their accounts are available for free through the
excellent UK Gov site.
[https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-h...](https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-
history)
and
[https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/filing-h...](https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/filing-
history)
seem to be the relevant ones.
~~~
arethuza
Seems appropriate that "CLOUD IMPERIUM UK LTD" uses Coutts and Co.!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coutts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coutts)
------
michaelcampbell
> Those 100 star systems? He has not completed a single one. So far he has two
> mostly finished planets, nine moons and an asteroid.
Lord. I had no idea it was THIS bad. This game was my son's first taste of
Kickstarter pseudofraud. He got a good machine out of it from his dad (me),
but he's still bitter 5 years later not being able to play what was promised.
~~~
TheCapn
I had a big StarCitizen fan for a coworker for a while and I asked him what he
thought of that. His response was that the original 100 star systems weren't
as vast and detailed as the singular system they're building now. He says the
content and depth of the current system is far better than 100 empty systems.
I'm not sure entirely how I feel about that response. While I agree that fewer
fully fleshed systems are better for a game it feels a lot like they promised
things they had no clue about in the first place. Unless someone can possibly
link me a brief overview of the original scope vs. what is in the works now
I'm lead to believe my coworker had just been drinking the koolaid and will
hand wave any scope creep that this project presents.
------
RenRav
I remember backing a language learning game over 6 years ago on kickstarter. I
still receive emails about its progress and development, it's almost
depressing.
------
mtw
I was positive on crowdfunding but cases like this show that giving teams
money before they deliver is not good for consumers. It gives an advantage for
marketing-driven teams while there's no accountability and no hard reason to
deliver. See Kickstarter and Indiegogo with lots of slick videos but really
not much to actually use
~~~
vlunkr
There are plenty of success stories, among many highly publicized failures. I
don’t think we should write the whole thing off. When backing a product,
remember that you’re playing the role of an investor, rather than a consumer,
so you have to be more wary. When you pay to back an MMO, remember that it has
probably the hardest road to success of any type of video game.
~~~
raesene9
You're really not playing the part of an investor on Kickstarter or IndieGogo.
An investor stands the chance to make a profit if a venture is successful.
That does not describe the model of this kickstarter or any other one I've
seen.
If a kickstarter says "pledge at this tier and get x in return" that's a
supplier-->consumer relationship.
~~~
Retric
Money is only one kind of investment, regular exercise has a different but
still valuable reward.
Getting something that does not exist yet is the payout. Handing over money
for say a 1/3 chance of the reward is what separates this from a normal
purchase. But, hopefully you understand that risk going in.
~~~
raesene9
The comment to which I was replying implied that participating in a
kickstarter was like being an investor (from context, in the financial sense
of that word).
So we're talking financial investments, not regular exercise.
In the financial sense, an investment is where you put money in with the hope
of getting more money out. There are levels of risk, and generally the more
risky the investment the higher the expected payout.
That's not what kickstarter is, at all, as you have zero chance of getting
more money out (in this kickstarter for example)
you're giving someone money in exchange for the hope of a product downt the
line.
~~~
Retric
Nothing in that post mentioned monetary returns.
Still, you can get more value out than you put in depending on how you value
the output. Many kickstarter’s are not items that you can buy but rather art
projects. How valuable is it for something to exist in this world even if you
don’t own it?
Now, that’s less true if games or flashlights. But, even if that specific item
does not get created simply proving a market for it exists can provide value.
Consider, if 10$ helps creat a great restaurant near you. Simply being able to
eat at it would provide value even without getting a discount.
~~~
raesene9
So when someone uses the phrase (which is what I responded to)
"remember that you’re playing the role of an investor, rather than a consumer"
you don't take from it that this was meant as a short-hand for financial
investor?
If not then semantic differnce, but there is a persistent meme whenever
kickstarter is discussed on HN that backing is akin to financial investment
rather than purchase, and I disagree with that meme.
Sure you can back something purely for the hope that it will happen, and I've
done that, but you're not a financial investor in that product/service/etc
~~~
Retric
It’s descriptive as you are a financial investor as you’re investing money not
time etc.
I think they promote the term backers which is also used for people who donate
to charity. Unlike with charity you can get meaningful payout rather than a
token item. Still, the highest rewards are often symbolic in nature just like
charity’s “gold donor” lists etc.
~~~
raesene9
To quote [https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-
use](https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use)
"When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project
and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their
obligation to their backers. "
_if_ a kickstarter has symbolic rewards, then sure that's fine.
But otherwise it's a contractual obligation to provide a reward in exchange
for money. Not a donation, not an investment.
~~~
Retric
A bond is a contract with specific terms and an investment at the same time.
The only real difference between a kickstarter and a bond is handing back
money vs handing back something other than money. Well, granted interest
payments don’t compound.
------
norswap
The world needed a new Duke Nukem Forever, and it got one. The cycle must
continue.
~~~
fluffything
Only this time the project is infinitely and forever funded.
------
nwhatt
I'll peek at people playing star citizen on Twitch from time to time. It seems
like the game crashes a lot, and it takes forever to get into actual action
(like getting your ship and leaving the atmosphere takes like 10+ minutes),
but the game has come a long way.
[https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Star%20Citizen](https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Star%20Citizen)
------
asdfasgasdgasdg
BTW, this article lists Pebble as a failure of crowdfunding. But . . . didn't
they deliver a smart watch? I had one once upon a time, and it seemed to work
fine, especially on Android. The company did not ultimately succeed, but it
did at least deliver on its promises. I'd call it a kickstarter success,
personally.
~~~
pluma
That really struck me as wrong too. The first kickstarter was certainly a
success, as was at least the second one too.
Pebble failed when it tried to pivot to a more explicit fitness-focus,
directly competing with Fitbit (though I'm not sure if this was not maybe
intended to lead to the acquihire).
I'm still happily using my Pebble Time Steel as a wearable that tells me the
time, notifies me when I get notifications on my Android phone and lets me
dismiss calls, quickly send canned responses to messages on WhatsApp and
control my phone's audio.
Ironically the only feature that seems to have stopped working that I notice
is the step counter (because pressing the "up" button on the watch face tries
to invoke it).
------
crankylinuxuser
I had hopes long ago when kickstarter first came out. Now, not so much. It's a
graveyard of 'almost succeeded', 'good idea but execution failed', and
'scammers'.
What I was hoping long ago was that KS would have been a place to buy shares
of equity, and be part owner of these ventures. Instead it turned into a "ebay
of almost buy". That way would have been a way of democratizing ownership
without doing a traditional IPO - yet also targeting people who believe.
(As an aside, the SEC also punishes people under the 1% class, by preventing
many types of investments to the rest of us. Note how IPFS's FileCoin IPO was
only for the millionaire class. Risk is risk, but the SEC prevents new risk
and opportunities except to the millionaires.)
~~~
b3lvedere
It is what it is. Ideas put into work by using money from (lots of) small
resources. Most are very passionate about it and really want to succeed, but
the risks are huge due to various reasons.
I have kickstarted a videogame that's still not available after years, but the
developer gives monthly honest feedbacks which have been very entertaining. I
don't expect to have a game within the next 3 years, but i don't really care
much. He got his adventure, i got mine.
I also kickstarted a board game that has never ever been finished completely
and never will. It works, but there is zero communication or updates. Just
silence. That hurted way more.
------
Kiro
I'm not a backer but I think people forget about what Star Citizen has
actually accomplished. It's far from vaporware:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgjTf41QAnY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgjTf41QAnY)
------
bovermyer
It's worth noting that you can play it _right now_. It's just not finished
yet.
~~~
canadacorner
It's terrible.
~~~
sgift
I disagree. Now it's opinion vs opinion. I could play a few missions, did a
bit of bounty hunting, a bit of mining. I've played "finished" AAA games which
had less.
There's much to do, but the game is in a far better state than a year ago.
Everything else is subjective and it's hard to have a discussion if all you
provide is two (and a half) words.
~~~
VoltairePunk
Please provide a list of "finished" AAA games that you've played that had less
so we can accept your opinion as viable.
~~~
sgift
Anthem for the most current example.
------
BlackholeHairs
Be careful with grouping/simplifying people into specific troupes. I have been
closely following the details of Star Citizen's development for years, and
even interviewed Chris and a few lead developers personally. They did have
problems prior to late 2015 but since then the company drastically improved in
a ton of areas (except marketing mistakes) as well as develop technologies no
one else has. The company is legit and so is the game they're developing with
backer funds.
But decide yourself, right now it's free flight all weekend which means you
don't need to buy the game to test it out. It's pretty wild to see what it's
like as a new comer, very different from other space games out there right now
even as an alpha. The official site to register for Star Citizen is the
roberts space industries website, and if you use a star citizen referral code
you get bonus ingame currency but I recommend to people to use this code STAR-
GN2F-6JLW because it's from a high level backer group that allows everyone who
uses the code to have access to an INSANELY large fleet, the site it's from is
enlistcitizen.
In any event, people shouldn't take the article for more than face value as
basically a tabloid piece, come to your own conclusion, try the game out when
it's free. Which is any week they do free flight, which is usually once every
3 months or so.
------
TadaScientist
It was September 2012 when a friend of mine and I pledged some money. I was
backer number ~ 2000. My friend jokingly said "We will have children by the
time it comes out". Guess what.
They could have avoided the expensive actors, changing engine half-way, and
they still should come out and say - we promised 1000 things. We can do 50 to
get the ball rolling and we will do the following 950 in due time.
I really do hope that they put together at least the single player. We've
spent money on the same sport simulators since '97\. What's $50-$60?
I am rooting for them.
~~~
s_y_n_t_a_x
They didn't really change the engine too much. Lumberyard is based off of
CryEngine. And I believe they did that to minimize work.
------
rado
What do you mean, "may"?
------
burgerboy
You can literally play it right now and it is awe inspiring
~~~
canadacorner
"they spent how much money and time, and this is all they have?!" awe indeed.
~~~
atoav
Even if they had finished and shipped that game 2 years ago without a single
bug and all the promised features it would’ve not been the right game for
everybody. This is IMO part of the very concept from the very start. Space
games are not for everybody. Even good ones.
I wonder how many of the people who dislike Star Citizen as a game actually
like space games?
Even with FPS elements, mining, trading and dogfights, space is a huge place
and it takes a certain type of person to enjoy flying around in a ship for
longer than a minute.
------
MrBlue
SC is playable right now. #FakeNews
~~~
swarnie_
Honest question - Is it anywhere close to a finished product?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
This. Is. Not. How. Email. Works - edward
https://twitter.com/vmbrasseur/status/1205540917127471105
======
zarkowsky
Well, MS Exchange / Outlook has had this feature since a while so there's
that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
At Age 25 Mark Cuban Learned Lessons About Leadership That Changed His Life - timjahn
http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2013/03/28/at-age-25-mark-cuban-learned-lessons-about-leadership-that-changed-his-life/
======
hello_newman
I think Mark Cuban is a great inspiration. He is very humble, knows his roots,
isn't trying to impress anybody, and is a "normal" guy. He doesn't have the
flashy this or that qualifications, but what he does have is the most
important; drive, commitment, and the ability to get shit done. That's an
entrepreneur.
I also love the part at the bottom of paragraph 13:
"The place was run by this kid who was younger than I was. We sat down and
talked for a few hours. I was really impressed by him. I remember telling him,
“Dude, I think we’re both going places.” That “dude” was Michael Dell."
It's funny because I read about them meeting before. It just kind of shows you
to remember and keep in touch with people you meet along your journey. You
never know who may be able to help you, but you don't go into with the
attitude of "how can this person help me"? You go into with the attitude of
this guy is doing his own thing and snapping necks and cashing checks along
the way. I should grab a beer with him some time. That is how business
relationships are made, that is how you network. Not through forced, sleazy,
cocktail meet-ups.
Great read.
------
mathattack
He's a great read and self-promoter, and I mean that in the best sense of the
world. That said, I would find an unauthorized biography interesting.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ourobotics releases completely open source Renegade 3D bioprinter - jarmitage
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160204-ourobotics-releases-completely-open-source-renegade-3d-bioprinter.html
======
mjwaz
This seems cool, but a bit expensive.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Angry iPhone Owners Twitition for Lower 3G S Upgrade Prices - transburgh
http://mashable.com/2009/06/09/iphone-twitter-petitions/
======
brk
A) Online petitions are generally worthless
B) Twitter and twit-[foo] words are becoming beyond fucking annoying
C) This is no different than when Palm Treo's were hot and people who bought
Treo 600's were upset that they had to pay to get a Treo 650 if they weren't
eligible for an upgrade. In the US, most mobile phones are subsidized and
there is a pretty basic understanding that you either pay a huge upfront fee,
or signup for a two-year (or sometimes split the different with a 1-year)
contract to lower the price.
------
gregking
It'd be nice to sign another two year contract for the subsidized price. I am
interested to see the new componets and actual processor speed of the new
device. I also want Nike+ so I may be willing to put down the additional money
but I definitley don't want too.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Processing, the programming language. - iamgabeaudick
Have any of you learned/used it? Those of you that have: how often do you use it and for what?
======
_delirium
I used it in a computational-media class a few years ago, where it was the
main language used for the examples and projects. Since I was a CS student and
already comfortable in a bunch of languages (much of the class wasn't), I
wasn't really the target audience, but I thought it was reasonably well done
for what it is. You can get some graphical stuff happening on screen in only a
few lines of code, and the IDE automates building a Java applet that you can
ship just by copying a directory to a webserver, both of which, I think,
increase the satisfaction to someone just starting out with programming,
because you can immediately see the effect of relatively simple programs. It's
actually a _lot_ nicer than Java for simple 2d graphics stuff, because it gets
rid of a lot of the boilerplate, and includes some decent built-in primitives.
And you can escape to Java if things get complex.
I've used it a few times since then as a rapid-prototyping tool for 2d
graphics stuff, mostly interactive graphics toy type of stuff, and I think
it's pretty good for that. HTML5 Canvas is getting to the point where it'll
probably replace it for that purpose for me, but when Processing came out in
the early 2000s, there wasn't much comparable when it came to getting some
interactive graphics working in a web browser in <10 lines of code.
------
wollw
I haven't used Processing explicitly but from what I can tell the Arduino's
Wiring language is pretty much the same thing (it uses the Processing IDE and
from what I've read it seems to be a superset of Processing). I use Wiring
when playing around with my Arduino but generally rewrite things in assembly
if I take a project further than just messing around.
------
gaius
I have to say, the name put me off. It'd be like calling a car the Ford
Driving. Or Starbucks launching a coffee beverage called Drinking. It reminds
me of <http://paulgraham.com/javacover.html>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Where People Spend the Most and Least on Rent in America - emberdev
https://priceonomics.com/where-people-spend-the-most-and-least-on-rent-in/
======
bernardino
I live in Irvine, CA, and per the article we are the sixth most expensive for
a renter. I live with my parents and three sisters and we do pay $1950 for a
two bedroom apartment, three dollars off the actual median.
Though what I find hard to believe is how my family does it. I attend a local
community college close by, and have been doing so for the past four years
after high school. Every year I fill out the FASFA (a Free Application for
Student Aid limited to only six years), and I usually ask my parents for their
tax record of the past year which gives me a look at our overall income.
My parents for the last four years combined have made roughly an average of
$31,000/yr. I've never asked them why we initially didn't move to a cheaper
state when we migrated from Mexico, but I assume they enjoy the quality of
life here. Though I'm skeptical on whether the trade offs are worth it. We
give up most of our life for work, so we may have a few hours off in the week
and the weekend. And the the latter applies to my mother, older sister, and I,
it does not apply to my father who works the entire week as a gardener with
his own workers and clients and only gets a few hours each week (more now
since it gets dark earlier with autumn/winter daylight savings).
Though above all, I find it odd that we give our only life (?) to living for
rent, food, and necessities. Which is not to say work is bad, after all, work
I think has three functions: “to give a man a chance to utilise and develop
his faculties; to enable him to overcome his egocentredness by joining with
other people in a common task; and to bring forth the goods and services
needed for a becoming existence.” But otherwise, I still believe there ought
to be a healthier and more natural approach to modern day work and life
balance.
The quote above is from E.F. Shumacher’s Small is Beautiful: Economics as if
People Mattered. A book I have come to admire and tend to revisit from time to
time.
~~~
ttonkytonk
You are spot on.
I am homeless because I don't work, but really all I desire is a good spot to
put my tent. Of course I enjoy free food and amenities such as the library,
but I also volunteer at the soup kitchens and some other functions from time-
to-time at least. I have no desire to work 50 hours or more a week at a
thankless job at this time. That _does not_ mean I'm comfortable with being a
"smooch", just that I think it's kind of irrelevant.
We need to give up the blame/excuses game and focus on the health of
communities as a whole.
~~~
extra88
You get paid to do a job, why do you need thanks as well?
I wonder if your current lifestyle will make it difficult to transition to
another lifestyle when it's no longer sustainable or you tire of it. At least
you're volunteering and as odd as I find it to be homeless and spending time
on this site, it suggests an interest in and connection to activities that
will work out later.
BTW, a mooch is someone who lives off others ("to mooch" is also a verb). A
smooch is slang for a kiss.
~~~
ttonkytonk
I don't literally need thanks, but it needs to be something that doesn't make
me miserable. It seems restaurants stay competitive by being high stress.
I don't code BTW; I found HN by chance and noticed there are many general
interest articles so I don't see it as a problem.
~~~
extra88
Many people do those jobs and aren’t miserable. That doesn’t mean there’s
something wrong with you if you would be. I don’t know what made you think of
restaurant work but most are not busy all the time. It’s true that most are
low-paying and often tiring.
I didn’t assume you code, I don’t really.
------
no_protocol
> In our new data study, we analyzed the anonymized data spanning three years
> from tens of thousands of verified loan applicants from Priceonomics
> customer Earnest to see how much people actually pay in rent across America.
The sample may be fairly large but it is almost certainly not representative.
These figures only represent the subset of the population who would use an
online financial services company _AND_ actually did use it.
I would expect data from sources such as the Census Bureau to be much more
representative of reality. Here is one visualization of such data I found [0].
These figures are much, much closer to the actual conditions I have personally
observed in multiple states.
My guess is that the reported figures from Earnest miss large categories such
as low-income and elderly people. The numbers are way too high for many
states.
[0]: [http://overflow.solutions/demographic-data/national-
data/sta...](http://overflow.solutions/demographic-data/national-data/state-
level-analysis/what-is-the-average-rent-in-each-state/)
~~~
morgante
Seriously, shame on Priceonomics for publishing this blog at all. This is
textbook selection bias: of course people who need online personal loans are
going to have different financial profiles from the average.
------
GFischer
Something I don't understand is that, even with shockingly high rent prices,
no smaller units seem to be built.
As a South American and having seen European housing, the only city that has
something equivalent to what's "normal" here is New York.
Not even San Francisco builds small apartments/condos. An average 2-bedroom in
Europe or in Buenos Aires is 600 square foot, and that's the size of a studio
apartment in the United States. I'm not saying going to extremes like Tokyo
and their 300 square foot apartments (I lived in a 200 square feet studio for
a couple of years, it's doable).
I did a quick search and the 1000 dollar apartments/condos for rent in New
Jersey are similar in size to 1000 dollar apartments here in Montevideo... but
there are no 500 dollar equivalents!
I think most people in the U.S. think they NEED that much space (even when
they don't).
~~~
doctorwho42
I understand from an outside view it may look like we think we NEED that much
space... But really it's economics of building development, primarily ROI for
the building company. It's more profitable to make more expensive type of
housing on that land than it is to make small apartments or starter homes.
Hence the seemingly barren housing options within the small apartment and
small/starter home markets... It sucks...
~~~
1_2__4
And people say this is necessary when we built thousands of starter homes in
decades past and somehow developers still made scads of cash.
~~~
ams6110
There was a lot more available space then.
------
neogodless
"In an average lifetime, an American will spend about $1.6 million on the core
essentials of survival: food, shelter, and transportation. The largest portion
of that—nearly one-third—goes toward housing costs."
I guess shelter != housing in this statement, but it seems if you're talking
about three items comprising a total, the largest one cannot be less than one
third, right? :)
~~~
harryh
I too found this statement confusing. If you click through the link you'll
find that the source says something slightly different:
"Over 78 years, one spends an average of about $1.6 million dollars just to
survive. Of this, one spends about $1M on housing, food, and cars."
So (according to the source) survival costs 1.6M of which the 3 biggest
expenses add up to 1M. They don't say what comprises the other 600k.
Health care? Eduction? Clothing? Child care? Just some guesses....
------
IkmoIkmo
I thought this was kind of a weak article, or at least not particularly
interesting... it's essentially just a bunch of tables with an exclamatory
note on the outliers.
More importantly, I'm missing things like household size and square footage.
I mean, nobody is really interested in a rent prices in and of itself. We're
interested in affordability, i.e. how much does it cost to rent per person, or
per amount of area.
If you look at the average household size in Utah and Montana for example, and
divide median state rent by each, you'll find the median rent per person in
the household is $480 and $530 respectively, despite median rent being $1500
and $1270.
i.e., you may think it's less affordable to rent in Montana, but on a per
capita basis, it's actually the opposite.
They do mention things like education and income typically being higher in
expensive places, making this a one-sided story on affordability, but mostly
leave it outside the scope of the analysis. A shame, cause it's interesting
stuff!
~~~
Spooky23
Those aren’t really valid metrics for rent without a lot of controls in the
study.
People make due when they need to — they cram into whatever space they can
afford for 25-40% of income.
------
crazygringo
Much like the author, I'm tremendously surprised to see L.A. at the top --
this doesn't match anything I've heard before, or what I hear anecdotally.
The author says: "One possible explanation for Los Angeles being more
expensive than the Bay Area is if renters in Los Angeles are less likely to
have roommates or a rent controlled apartment."
Curious if anyone here on HN has any alternative hypotheses? Perhaps
technicalities of city boundaries? (E.g. NYC includes Queens, Staten Island
and the Bronx, whereas from my understanding LA proper excludes much of the LA
"area".)
~~~
rowha
Rent in SF is much higher & you get a lot less. The other day I met a lady
looking at 1BR aparrments and she said in the newer buildings, it was $6500 to
$7500. $3500 is the average price for a 1BR.
Rents are going slightly down in SF. You can rent a room for $1200-1500 and
pay $300-400 month in parking. A friend was paying $1900 month to share a
place with 5 people in Russian Hill.
In LA, you can live at the Ritz for $5500/month.
~~~
closeparen
Yeah, no. Even in the <5 year old gleaming towers around Transbay Terminal,
$7500 is at least a 2BR. 1 bedroom is around $4500 depending on the size/view.
I rent a comfortable studio on an upper floor for $3200.
------
dahart
Top 5 cities: LA $2600, San Jose $2502, SF $2333, NY $2141, San Diego $2058
It's been a while since I lived in the Bay Area, but has San Jose really
surpassed San Francisco? Or is this a function of SJ having larger apartments
than SF on average, or something like that?
I wonder if the list would be quite different for a specific type of
apartment. A single renter living in 800 square feet will probably pay a lot
more (I speculate) in NY than San Jose? Where a family of four living in 1200
square feet (not the norm, I realize) might not even be able to find a place
in a few of these cities.
Bottom 5 cities: Toledo $550, Memphis $728, Glendale AZ $751, Kansas City
$885, Lincoln NE $907
The average for the lowest cities is surprisingly high. This makes me curious
about Toledo -- how is the lowest rent city 25% lower than the next lowest?
That seems like an outlier. Is Toledo out of space, or depressed, or only
renting studio apartments or something? How does Toledo compare to Detroit,
where it's easy to find a small apartment in the $400s?
~~~
sidlls
The article explicitly states that they are measuring the amount people
actually pay, not per unit rented. So a person renting in SF might pay less
for a more expensive unit compared to one in LA only because the person in SF
is sharing rent with more people.
~~~
arebop
Also, 1/3 of rental housing in SF is rent controlled, meaning that rent
increases are limited to a fraction of the CPI. This causes a large difference
between current market rates and what established tenants pay. It explains
both the low prices reported here, and some of the seeming discrepancy between
wages and housing costs as reported by market sources.
~~~
amorphid
I pay $1550 for a small studio in SF. My neighbor pays less than $300 for his
apartment, which is the same size as mine. I've lived there since 2016, he has
lived there since 1985-ish.
------
will_brown
>LA residents also pay the highest percentage of their income in rent (23.9%)
Not according to the Census Bureau and U.S. Department of Housing and Urban
Development American Housing Survey. That honor is reserved for Miami with an
average of 27%, and 1/3 spending 50% of their income on rent.
~~~
twoodfin
I wonder if there’s some adjustments for demographics going on here. Miami
presumably has a larger % of low income retirees than LA.
~~~
will_brown
Well the numbers are probably even more alarming for millennials (18-34). For
example, the national average of millennials living with parents is 31%, but
in Miami that number is 44.8%, again the highest nationwide and more
disturbing that number was 15% in 2005. And of the millennials who do rent,
they spend on average 54% of their income on rent [1].
[1] [http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-
news/ar...](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-
news/article134594879.html)
------
gwright
I didn't see any attempt to normalize the rents to per square foot. How can
you compare average rents if the average unit size isn't the same?
~~~
extra88
Because you can't simply find an apartment sized to fit. Even if you can
afford only 200 sq. ft. but are okay with that, it will be hard to find in
most communities. You need 1 place to live, not X sq. ft. to live.
But price per sq. ft. is not completely irrelevant and can be useful to know.
------
ransom1538
"It's been a while since I lived in the Bay Area, but has San Jose really
surpassed San Francisco?"
It is misleading. It has to do with averages. A large portion of SF residents
are on rent control. So if you poll 10k SF people and ask their rent you get
lower rental rates -- since in SF many are locked in and cannot afford to
move. When you average the rents, you get a rental rate from over a decade
ago. Example, if you are moving to SF today - you are looking at 3500$[i] for
a run down 2brd. If you wanted to move to San Jose -- you might actually find
a 2brd for $2500. I check every month and know the neighborhoods really well
of Manhattan and SF. SF is more expensive - since Manhattan has more inventory
and no rent control over 2k.
[i] [https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/d/open-must-see-
huge-2-...](https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/d/open-must-see-
huge-2-bed-2/6410690636.html)
~~~
busterarm
> since Manhattan has more inventory and no rent control over 2k.
Not exactly...There's several different kinds of rent regulation in NY. You're
probably thinking of the rent-stabilization cutoff at $2700? Technically there
are many apartments that are considered rent-stabilized with rents well above
$2700 -- the building that I live in, for example, where virtually all rents
are north of $3500, has over 80 stabilized units in a building with 96 units.
About 31% (as of a few years ago) of technically rent-stabilized buildings
have loopholes that allow normal increases on rent that landlords do take
advantage of. To these tenants, rent-stabilization has little more effect than
a right-to-renew.
Rent controlled apartments are much rarer, comprising only of about 27k units
across the five boroughs. There are two of these in my building. The number of
rent controlled units is dwarfed by the number of apartments under other
regulation, like SCRIE, Mitchell-Lama, etc., comprising of about 280k units
total.
NYC's total housing inventory is slightly above 3.2 mil units, of which 1.34
mil are under some kind of rent regulation.
[http://www.nycrgb.org/downloads/research/pdf_reports/17HSR.p...](http://www.nycrgb.org/downloads/research/pdf_reports/17HSR.pdf)
~~~
ransom1538
Yeah my point was NY does have much rent control.
From the passage of the Rent Regulation Reform Act of 1997 to the Rent Act of
2011, rent stabilization was restricted to apartments where the legal, or
stabilized, rent was under $2,000 per month. The 2011 law raised that to
$2,500. The unit could be deregulated once the rent went above $2,000 under
the 1997 law, $2,500 under the 2011 Act, and is either vacant or the household
adjusted gross income was over $175,000 under the 1997 act or is $200,000
under the 2011 law, for two consecutive years.[1
------
ryanmarsh
Texas just barely edged out NY for more expensive rent. Seriously. This is why
averages across entire states are worthless for understanding many economic
factors affecting people.
This is Info-fastfood. There’s no nutritional value in this data. First off
the data should be presented in at least a county level or MSA. A cloropleth
map would be nice too.
~~~
extra88
> Texas just barely edged out NY for more expensive rent. Seriously.
So? New York State is not New York City. New York City is populous but the
rest of the state's cities pale in comparison and in decline. Texas has
multiple expensive cities with populations over a million. And rents in NYC
vary widely; Manhattan is much more expensive than Staten Island.
~~~
sremani
The problem is the rent control apartments in NYC skew the data and does make
it apple to apple. That is the difficulty here. Rural NY to Rural TX, I will
bet anytime that Rural TX is cheaper especially in the Rio Grande Valley and
West Texas.
~~~
BenchRouter
> The problem is the rent control apartments in NYC skew the data and does
> make it apple to apple
Last time I checked, rent controlled apartments make up ~1% of housing units
in the city, and that number decreases all the time (because the supply of
rent controlled apartments is constantly decreasing). So, I think I'd need to
see a citation that rent control has any serious effects on NYC housing
prices.
I'm not saying that 1% couldn't have larger effects, but given the small
amount of rent-controlled units I think the burden of proof is on you here.
> Rural NY to Rural TX, I will bet anytime that Rural TX is cheaper especially
> in the Rio Grande Valley and West Texas.
Why? I think you have a very different picture in mind of what rural NY looks
like. There are a ton of extremely poor towns and cities up near Rochester and
Buffalo. Lots and lots of rust belt remnants in the western part of the state
that haven't recovered:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt#/media/File:Total_mf...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt#/media/File:Total_mfctrg_jobs_change_54-02.png)
Maybe it's $50 for a 1 bedroom in west Texas vs. $60 for a 1 bedroom on the
outskirts of Hammond NY, but I don't think that's a very meaningful
difference.
~~~
extra88
Yes, I was thinking more the Southern Tier for remote New York but Hammond is
a good border town example of very un-NYC New York living.
My guess is remote parts of Texas are probably still cheaper. It's so big,
remote towns can't be bedroom communities, they're less well-regulated so
building costs are probably lower, and property taxes are probably lower (less
expensive maintenance than in NY weather and they don't take care of their
citizens as well).
------
api
Kansas City and Detroit are both real deals if you can find good work or bring
it with you. Both have cool personality and very nice areas and are dirt
cheap.
~~~
avenoir
I can only comment on Kansas City, as I used to live there and I agree with
you. It's great for the time being, however, it is starting to grow very
rapidly. Not quite at, say, Denver's pace but it makes me wonder how long the
city will keep its low prices. The rent prices were listed at $954 in MO and
$1127 in KS. Both are on the expensive side and i literally don't know anyone
who pays this much for rent. You can find a very nice place (20 minute drive
from downtown) on both KS and MO sides of Kansas City for $500-$700 per month.
------
sremani
Surprise to see Plano TX on the list of top 10 cities with highest percentage
of Income spent on Rent.
Toyota and bunch other companies have moved their HQ or operations here, it
may have to do something about it.
~~~
kodablah
Most of the data predates Toyota, and many of those HQs are in the NW side
where several cities intersect. The reason, I suspect, is that the article
chooses top 100 cities by population, so Plano squeezes in. It does not have a
ton of apartments, but the ones it has, especially west, are expensive and
fairly new. Most of the inhabitants, in my experience, are service industry to
serve the otherwise (former?) highest income per household city, meaning many
spend a large portion on rent. That's one theory... the other being it's just
a few % points putting them up there and may be just the current multifamily
real estate swing.
------
skybrian
If I had to pick a place to live off the cheapest cities list, I might look
more closely at Pittsburgh or Tacoma. Why so cheap?
~~~
psyc
I did some research on a few neighborhood forums about Pittsburgh. The most
common type of comment was something like "Pittsburgh isn't nearly as bad as
people think. I've only been robbed twice."
------
touchofevil
I can attest to the fact that LA rents have gone insane in the last maybe 5
years. A run-down 1 bedroom apartment in a working-class neighborhood of LA
(Palms) without central air and no dishwasher will rent for $1700/month at the
minimum. I'm currently apartment hunting in LA and it's brutal.
~~~
JBlue42
I'm with you. I'm luckily 'stuck' in my studio ($1221/mo) but at least it's a
nice area, near a subway, and central to a lot of job opportunities. Even
though I'm looking for jobs, I really can't consider any that are going to
have me moving and paying more for rent without a significant step-up in
salary. We have very high rents here (high demand due to lack of housing) and
very low wages (due to amount of people, I guess?).
I don't know if I would consider Palms 'working class' but it definitely is
advantageous in being cheaper than other places since the whole town of Palms
is essentially all apartment buildings and located near job centers in Culver
City, Venice, and Santa Monica up the road / Expo line.
------
shmerl
Average New Jersey rent is higher than average New York rent? That's a bit
unexpected. But I guess NYC is way different from the state as a whole.
Also, average rent is obscure, if it lumps together different housing sizes.
Breaking it by number of rooms would make it more usable.
~~~
BenchRouter
Yeah, I mean it's easy to forget about places in NY with low costs of living
like Binghamton.
Even in the city, it's easy to forget that most people don't live in
Manhattan/the expensive parts of Queens and Brooklyn. A sizable minority,
sure, but not most.
~~~
shmerl
Brooklyn is expensive in general because it's most populous borough in NYC.
~~~
BenchRouter
Ehhh not expensive if you go out to, say, Brownsville. Brooklyn is much, much
more than just Williamsburg and Park Slope.
~~~
shmerl
Never tried Williamsburg or Park Slope, but finding a good apartment for
decent price is very hard no matter where. Of course prices drop if subway is
harder to get to.
~~~
BenchRouter
I mean, I'm not sure what your price range is but this is literally the top
result on Craigslist right now:
[https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/d/fantastic-1-bdr-
apt...](https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/d/fantastic-1-bdr-apt-
available/6410581369.html)
Granted it's Craigslist so who knows how legit it is, but if you're willing to
share with roommates/etc. I don't feel like it's super hard to find a great
apartment if you're willing to live further out.
~~~
meandave
This listing is 100% Fake
------
danans
Another statistical perspective on this is the percentage of households whose
housing costs exceed 30% of income, as depicted here:
[http://www.governing.com/gov-data/economy-finance/housing-
af...](http://www.governing.com/gov-data/economy-finance/housing-
affordability-by-city-income-rental-costs.html)
This gives a starker picture, with Flint, MI having the largest %, despite its
low rents, and Sunnyvale CA having the lowest % despite its very high overall
rents.
------
wott
2 questions:
Is there some VAT (or sales tax, as I think you call it) applied to rents in
the USA?
If so, is it included in the figures of the article or when people comment
here and quote rent figures?
~~~
Tiksi
Nope, not in any state I'm aware of. in fact in some states with property
taxes, you can deduct the portion of your rent that would be used for the
property tax by the landlord from your state taxes.
~~~
dmode
Arizona has it. But I don't believe any city in California does
------
k__
How many people are renting homes in the US?
I always hear people talk about their mortage, as if buying a home was the
only thing that goes over there.
Probably has to do with the bad social security?
~~~
josephpmay
There's a huge generational shift going on. It used to be that everybody owned
a home, often starting in their 20's but definitely by their 30's. Now more
and more people are still renting into their 30's
Housing costs in America have gone through the roof, so it's much harder to
afford a down-payment. Also, it's generally said that millennials place a
higher value on mobility and prefer to live in urban cores, where more of the
housing is rentals and there are fewer single-family homes.
~~~
JBlue42
Or urban cores are where decent jobs are.
But yeah, also having grown up in a rural area, sidewalks to get to places are
nice.
------
cafard
Aurora, Colorado, shares a boundary line with Denver. Denver is at the bottom
of the most expensive, Aurora midway in the least. But Aurora is a pretty big
city these days, I think. I wonder how much the rent varies between places
right on the Denver line and those way out east.
------
ttonkytonk
Interesting article.
Seems it would be ideal to use post-tax income. Is the norm that you shouldn't
pay more than 30% based on pre- or post-tax income?
The graph on education level does not include those not graduating high
school.
~~~
1986
> The graph on education level does not include those not graduating high
> school.
The data appears to come from a company that largely handles refinancing
student loans.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Brain Management - mdemare
http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/brain_management
======
shiny
I've noticed this as well, although I don't think that programming and
socializing use the same parts of the brain.
It feels like programming directs all brain power toward the
analytical/introspective aspect of my brain, during which the social aspect
gets cold. Then when I have to socialize, it takes awhile to warm up. They are
completely different states of mind.
Dunno if this should factor into whether I should become a programmer as a
career.
~~~
davidcuddeback
I was just thinking about this last night, because I've noticed that when I
spend all day involved in an intellectual task (could be writing code;
yesterday it happened to be writing my thesis), I'm less entertaining to my
girlfriend when we talk on the phone. When I was thinking about it last night,
I guessed that the reason was because I hadn't done anything during the day
worth sharing. Whereas if I do something interesting then I'm more likely to
have an experience worth sharing with her.
This seems to make more sense to me. For instance, when I made a discovery and
when I got accepted to a conference, I had something exciting to tell her.
Even though I may be engaged in intellectual activity all day, I might have no
problem switching gears to telling her good news and talking about travel
plans for the conference.
But perhaps that's different than the dating scenario in the article because
of my comfort level with my girlfriend. Socializing with more-or-less
strangers is a completely different state of mind, as shiny said, than talking
to someone close to you.
I think there could be merit to both ideas. I'll take note of it tonight,
since I'm going to be going to a beer tasting in a couple hours after I've
been engaged in my thesis all day.
~~~
derefr
<http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Near/far_thinking>
Programming puts you in near mode. Socializing requires far mode. When you
talk to strangers, a short adrenaline boost acts as a "clutch" to allow you to
switch fully into far mode (you introduce yourself from the start, talk about
general ideas and things you did in the distant past/hope to do in the distant
future, etc.) When you talk to your girlfriend, however, the comfort creates
inertia you have to overcome to switch into far mode. A specific, sharable
accomplishment is a bridge, halfway between near and far.
------
heresy
I find it hard to switch off the programming side when I get home after work.
I was a lot more sociable when I still smoked, stopping smoking has been like
turning up the volume to what it was in my early 20s, programming wise.
A good whisky is the best medicine for turning off the left side though.
~~~
michaelneale
I can totally relate to that - well not the smoking bit. but yeah - a nice
scotch and you can turn it off. Otherwise I find I will say "ok, I am
finishing this.." go off and start talking to family/friends, and suddenly
pause, stare into the distance, and then run to the nearest device of mine to
try/make a note of some problem whose solution just popped apparently
completely formed into my head.
but hey, we love this, lets not kid ourselves. Its great - so many people
really hate their jobs, this is a wonderful business.
------
andywood
I don't know if programming makes me less social, but I do know that I'm at my
most social after I've already been socializing with a lot of people. So if
I've spent my day doing anything that isn't socializing, I'm not going to be
very social.
~~~
marram
I agree. I was uber social after spending a couple of days handing out schwag
and chatting with random people at SXSW.
~~~
wallflower
The efficient social power-up hack for this as taught to me by someone who can
engage anyone (and is not always on):
If you are on the way to a party or some other venue where it pays to be
social, park the car far away and on the way over greet _everyone_ you cross
paths with with a warm "Hello!". If you do this right (and park far away
enough/walk enough), by the time you get to the venue you will be lit up and
locked and loaded. Bear in mind, the first hello will suck. Maybe even the
next five. Ok, the first twenty.
But if you can get to twenty one or thirty, the energy will shift from why am
I doing this to I _love_ doing this.
Part of this is because you are warmed up but more importantly you will start
to get people responding to you. Gets you over your fear of rejection because
you're just being a social guy or gal. As always, use your best judgement, but
this technique is platinum. For bonus points, increase your range - target
people across the street by putting your hand up and waving and "HI!"
The abbreviated technique is to greet, pause, and shake hands and/or touch on
upper arm with everyone once you enter a venue - immediately. If you ever want
to watch this technique at work, go to a political fundraiser and observe
(unconscious competence for most).
------
bmobf
Yes, definitely. My brain takes a long time to shift gears.
One thing I've had some success with is writing stream-of-consciousness style
after work for ~500 words. Expressing a ton of thoughts without any filter or
careful thought seems to prime the pump for socializing.
Huh. I wonder if there's any connection there.
------
llimllib
My wife calls this "programming-land". When she comes home, she can tell right
away if I've been hacking or goofing off reading reddit; in the former case
I'm somehow behind the curve social-interaction-wise.
If we're going out afterwards, I can adjust, but it takes a while for me to
get my mind off the problem at hand.
------
cageface
Scott Adams eats microwaved pasta?
First order of business upon becoming rich is hiring a full-time gourmet chef.
~~~
hugh3
Why not just get married?
~~~
cousin_it
Because your wife might just make _you_ cook for _her_?
(I love how both your comment and my retort are obviously sexist. There's
gotta be some paradox about this.)
~~~
hugh3
I was being serious. Old-fashioned women who are happy to marry a richer, more
capable man and do household duties do still exist, but they're much rarer
than they used to be.
The fact that so many of you apparently thought the idea that your wife might
cook for you is sexist kinda makes me wonder what the point of a modern
marriage, from the point of view of a moderately-wealthy-to-rich man (who
doesn't need his wife's income) would actually be.
And don't just say "love", there has to be something else. The man brings love
_and_ money to the table, what does the woman bring?
~~~
cousin_it
I just apply the label "sexist" in the meaning that its inventors intended :-)
That doesn't mean I agree with them that sexist (or racist, or whatever) is
always bad.
I'm single and don't want to marry yet, but I can see why people can still
want to marry even if it doesn't mean acquiring a provider or a cook. The top
reason I can think of is companionship. If you live alone, by default you
spend every evening alone unless you expend effort. This might be hard for
most people. Heck, it's hard for me, but being free to do stuff is more
important to me than staving away loneliness.
------
baha_man
"...while expecting me to simultaneously navigating to our destination."
I guess he was doing something else when he wrote that.
"It is generally agreed that playing soccer is a good crossover skill for
playing tennis, because of the footwork."
Generally agreed? I've never heard this before.
~~~
wallflower
I can see it helping in tennis because being on the balls of your feet (split-
stepping) is key to being able to change direction. And soccer is all about
feints and changing directions.
Soccer is one of those sports where I'd like to get better but lack the
patience to build skills consistently.
If you want to learn how to dribble a soccer ball, do it in the edge of the
surf beachside. The water resistance makes it extremely difficult. Get a small
soccer ball called a skills ball. Soccer or (football) is one of the sports
where footwork can make you a valuable team player. Speaking of which, less
than one month to World Cup 2010!! (June 11th)
------
Qz
Merits aside, you would think someone responsible for years worth of laying
out text in comics would realize their blog font is too f __*ing small.
~~~
olliesaunders
Most browsers have text size adjustment facilities. Ctrl+= comes to mind.
~~~
Qz
I've had this discussion before on a different thread (wherein I didn't get
downvoted nearly as much but hey). Yes I realize I can fix the font size (and
in this case I just pressed Readability). And yet that is a terrible excuse
for the fact that his site is virtually unreadable, considering that he is
someone who, by the nature of his work, should be the last person making Yet-
Another-Unreadable-Blog.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Document-level locking and compression come to MongoDB - IanWhalen
http://docs.mongodb.org/manual/release-notes/2.8/
======
endijs
Keep in mind that document-level locking will be available only for WiredTiger
storage engine and not default one (MMAPv1). MMAPv1 will support only
collection level locking. The same story goes for compression. Also only
available in WiredTiger. Question remains - how stable will WiredTiger be in
2.8...
------
arthursilva
I haven't checked WiredTiger storage driver nor it's source but I think it's
safe to say that the in-place updates are not possible with Wired Tiger (even
without compression) and most future storages.
People must be careful not to heavily update big documents with these.
------
mrinterweb
I would say that document-level locking is a big deal for MongoDB. When I was
working at a company running MongoDB, we were running into latency issues when
multiple larger documents would be updated or created. Coupled with the fact
that we were using AWS and provisioning even 1000 IOPS was expensive and
limited compared to IOPS available to SSDs. On top of all of that we weren't
using the fire-and-forget default for writing data. We were requesting write
receipts.
Document-level locking will likely result in much better performance for
MongoDB.
------
arthursilva
Nice to see WiredTiger getting some love. LevelDB gets all the credit these
days (and LMDB to a [much] lesser extent).
~~~
nemothekid
What is WiredTiger? I checked the github, but couldn't find any high level
information other than it uses a LSM much like LevelDB. What
advantages/tradeoffs have they made in WiredTiger vs. LevelDB?
~~~
e12e
TFA links to [http://www.wiredtiger.com/](http://www.wiredtiger.com/) which
have some bold claims and jolly graphs -- and a link to:
[https://github.com/wiredtiger/wiredtiger](https://github.com/wiredtiger/wiredtiger)
I hadn't heard of wiredtiger either. Looks interesting. Anyone know how it
compares to LMDB[1]? Both in terms of features and maturity? Apparently made
by the people that gave the world the Sleepycat Berkley DB.
[1] [http://symas.com/mdb/](http://symas.com/mdb/)
------
gaadd33
MongoDB seems to be going through the same phases that MySQL did about 10
years ago with the 3.x series. It's interesting to see the progression and I
look forward to these improvements but there seems to be so many other choices
out there, although at the small level, not nearly as easy to use.
------
nasalgoat
Great news! I also like the new 50 replica limit.
I gave up on MongoDB after 2.6 but it sounds like they're finally maturing to
a true production ready datastore.
------
Cieplak
mangoDB
([https://github.com/dcramer/MangoDB](https://github.com/dcramer/MangoDB)) has
significantly faster writes than MongoDB.
On a serious note, Postgres 9.3 with the JSON data type is quite comparable to
MongoDB these days.
~~~
mrinterweb
The most appealing feature of many NoSQL databases, for me, is their ability
to automatically shard and replicate data across multiple instances. It is
possible to do this with relational databases such as Postgresql, but it is
not easy from my experience. Also failover and balancing sharded data are not
things that are easy with relational databases.
------
francesca
Wow. Great news!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What is something you do for clients that consistently blows them away? - fapi1974
======
Zyst
Most of these seem to be very on the side of "I'm a company", so as a sole
developer what I like to do for clients is implementing sockets into their
apps.
Adding sockets for, say, the 3 newest logs they get in real time. Or if they
have anything that maps to a graph/app-overview just make sure that will
always update in real time. It's not a huge time investment for me. Customers
usually never request it specifically. But I've found they are blown away when
they see how everything is updated in real time. It just makes the whole thing
feel 'alive'.
Another thing which I don't personally love, but I do because I understand
industries have differences is just exporting whatever can be exported into
.csv files or .xls files where applicable.
All in all, I work in consulting. The code I write is meant to make the life
of people easier, I want to make sure they get that when possible. A big part
of why I'm able to do this is that I have a lot of creative freedom to do
whatever I want so long as I'm getting stuff shipped. So huzzah for
comprehensive management as well!
~~~
raverbashing
How would you export it to xls? ActiveX Excel controller ("in my time this was
called COM", etc)? Open source library?
~~~
michaelmior
tablib[0] is one option for Python. There are quite a few libraries that
handle export. Excel files (and other Office) file formats are just zip files
containing XML. For a while now, this has been an open standard[1].
[0]
[https://github.com/kennethreitz/tablib](https://github.com/kennethreitz/tablib)
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML)
~~~
rgacote
I've found the Python pyexcel library to be the most flexible option to
read/write Excel files.
[https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyexcel/0.0.9](https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyexcel/0.0.9)
~~~
michaelmior
Curious if you've tried tablib. I haven't used either, but knowing
kenneth_reitz tablib is quality :)
------
lb1lf
Whenever I find myself at my desk not knowing what to fill the next few
minutes with, I tend to call a more or less random customer - the ones who USE
our products, not the ones who procure them - and ask them what they think
suck about our current offerings.
Most educational, and it has resulted in a number of improvements to our
product line (subsea handling equipment - used for deployment and maintenance
of subsea wellheads, submarine communication&power cables, &c, &c.)
They all expect you to ask what feature they like best; they're always baffled
when you rather ask where we've screwed up - and more than happy to help! :)
This is very cheap and effective market research.
~~~
orly_bookz
I used to work with this programmer who would get free beta testers by doing
this.
Set up a meeting with endusers in one of our training labs and tell them they
can complain about whatever they want. Then walk them through a 15-minute set
of steps for whatever change we're going to roll out.
Not only do you get great feedback on the product as a whole, they'll
inevitably find ways to break your new thing within five minutes. Literally a
few hours of two analysts' time and you might avoid dozens if not hundreds of
man hours spent fixing things. It was beautiful. And just like you said... the
customers are amazed that you _want_ them to complain. They love it.
~~~
stult
In my business line, we have two kinds of users: the competent ones who have
useful complaints but never seem to break anything and the incompetent ones
who break everything and have no useful complaints. I try to get a mix when I
want feedback on an upgrade or new tool or for more formal UAT. The former
group shows me flaws in the data model and UI, the latter shows me the flaws
in the business model.
------
chrissnell
My answer here is more relevant to an e-commerce company but the basic idea
can be adapted to any company.
So, back in 1994, my dad and me started an ecommerce company (bikeworld.com)
that sold bicycle parts online. It was an extension of his brick-and-mortar
bicycle business and I took a couple of years leave from college to help him
build it.
He did one thing early on that generated amazing word-of-mouth support: send a
little treat in every order box. Our company was based in San Antonio, TX and
Dad decided to include a little local flavor with each order to make us stand
out from the few competitors we had back then (incumbent mail order outfits).
At every good Mexican restaurant back home, they sell Mexican chewy candies at
the cash register when you pay after your meal. My dad and I loved these
things so he went to the manufacturer in town and bought a few cases of them.
They were really expensive, like $0.50 each, and it became a big expense but
the customers went nuts. Dad printed up a little card that he put in the bag
with the candy, explaining the tradition and thanking them for their business.
It worked well--we quickly became one of the largest online bicycle stores of
the late 90s.
~~~
Cerium
Thanks for the story. Advanced Circuits (aka 4pcb.com) includes a package of
microwave popcorn with every prototype order—since they know you will be up
all night when the package arrives.
~~~
fraserharris
They used to (maybe still do) have a pizza & pop special for students. It was
something like $199 to print 4 copies of your PCB and you get a large pizza
and 2L of pop from Domino's Pizza. I got it as an engineering student in
Canada, and was disappointed to learn upon delivery that the coupon could only
be used in the USA. I had to wait to use it til my next climbing road trip to
Red Rock Canyon.
------
tiffani
We call them back.
I run The Human Utility (formerly the Detroit Water Project) and we help folks
with their water bills. When they reach us, they're used to dealing with other
social service agencies that aren't very responsive and don't do something as
basic as ever calling them back. We do and we find that people are grateful
even for that.
Edit: People are happy to hear from us regardless of whether we actually help
with their bills. If we say we can't, at least they know to try elsewhere and
can do so fairly quickly.
~~~
Insanity
I have to +1 this. Whilst I have never specifically dealt with Human Utility.
A couple of times when I had an inquiry or an issue, I have been offered to be
called back later rather than wait and eventuall call back myself. Each time I
appreciated the phone call.
Something so simple, yet great for customers!
------
gkoberger
When I did freelancing, I charged a bit more than I felt I should... but went
above and beyond. My hourly rate may have been high, but I spent many "non-
billable hours" making sure everything worked great and any changes (their
fault or mine) were accounted for.
I did a few jobs where someone else controlled the billing, and kept us on a
tight schedule. Every hour was billed. We were "fired" (AKA contract not
renewed) every time. Yet when I went above and beyond, I had no problem
getting and maintaining awesome clients.
As someone on the opposite side now (hiring freelancers), I've realized the
thing I value most: the freelancer gives me less work, not more. It may seem
obvious, but when I was on the other side, it wasn't. When I hire freelancers
now, I value one overarching quality: to make my life easier. I don't care
about price or hours (within reason), I care about not having to think about
it.
~~~
haarts
I'm going to print that on a tile: "The freelancer gives me less work, not
more."
------
vcool07
I never disagree with a client. Even if I internally feel it won't work in
reality, I always start my response with "That's an excellent idea you
proposed, let me try if it works and get back to you". I come back after a day
or two as to why the proposal won't work (if it was a bad idea to begin with)
with sufficient data. Client is happy you that you considered his proposal and
you've avoided a potential standoff that could've existed for the same
duration !
~~~
JoachimS
Interesting. We usually say that a good consultant should be senior enough to
stand up to the customer and at least be able to inquire the basis for
something. And also disagree when the customer is clearly wrong. But your way
of doing it clearly removes the initial head-on.
One could always reason about things. But to promise to investigate (and then
deliver) looks (and is) professional.
But I will never say yes when a customer suggests to "encrypt dsta using the
cipher md5". Yes it has happened. More than once.
~~~
sirclueless
So, to follow the diplomatic approach here:
Client: "Encrypt our data using the md5 cipher."
Consultant: "I will investigate the feasibility of this."
... two days pass ...
Consultant: "I have considered your proposal. I believe we should encrypt your
data with SHA-256. md5 is insecure, here's several references. SHA-256 is much
more secure and more popular. It is a NIST standard, and just as cheap."
Client: (probably) "OK, if it costs the same and is more secure, sounds good
to us."
~~~
p0nce
Except you can't encrypt with a hash function.
~~~
JoachimS
Actually you can use a cryptographic hash function such as SHA-256 (or MD5,
but lets not go there) as the core of a stream cipher. Basically stick a seed
(key) combined with a counter as input to the hash functiom. Use the output as
the keystream. Stream ciphers such as ChaCha are basically block based PRFs
that operates like this.
Of course the performance would be silly compared to dedicated functions.
ChaCha20 has less than a third the number of iterations compared to SHA-256.
And each iteration is much faster.
Good thread: [http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/48/is-it-
feasible-...](http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/48/is-it-feasible-to-
build-a-stream-cipher-from-a-cryptographic-hash-function)
------
RickS
Here's an internal facing one: We send an automated greeting from the CEO as
part of onboarding, but he actually sees and replies to every customer
response, in both english and spanish, and forwards the more heartwarming ones
on to the entire office.
It's pretty cool to get a handful of emails every day from actual customers
who are very grateful for the work we do.
It also changed my opinion on the "canned CEO greeting". As someone who knows
how those are built, they always struck me as annoying and disingenuous sales
gimmicks, but our customers are significantly less tech savvy, and a huge
number take the correspondence at face value and actually start a real
conversation with the CEO.
~~~
mercer
I generally respond rather negatively to automated emails or chat messages
that seem human but are not, and I've been thinking of how I would approach
this if I had a company big enough that automatic greetings are 'necessary'
(or desirable, at least).
Perhaps one solution is to use a clearly non-human company 'avatar' character
specifically for some of these interactions? A robot or pet character?
~~~
paleite
How about a clip?
~~~
x97256
only if it has giant eyeballs and doesn't disappear no matter how hard you try
to make it go away... Otherwise, it just seems disingenuous.
------
rdpowers
I do hardware engineering work for hire and one of the things that always
works is having some documentation ready at _the first_ formal meeting.
Specifically, I have a skeleton requirements document that I put together from
our previous correspondence (there's always a phone call, few emails, etc.)
trying to flesh out their project needs. It doesn't matter if this is
incomplete, inaccurate, or any other in-word. It shows that I'm a professional
who has tried to understand the problem, the business case, possible
solutions, will approach it methodically and like a real engineer, and that I
know what I'm doing.
Those 10-15, printed, very real, pages, mostly just ?-marks, have written me
more contracts than I can count. It takes about 1-2 hours of work to write
things up, but I've never - not once -, had a potential client fail to notice
and be impressed when I show up and have a presentable document already
underway.
~~~
jenkstom
This is generally the way to win contracts, grants and impress people. Going
over their requirements carefully, whether written or verbal, and gearing your
proposal directly to what they say always impresses. That's why changing
project managers at the beginning of or before a contract starts is a big
problem.
------
cperciva
If there's a Tarsnap outage because I screwed something up, I give Tarsnap
users a credit to their accounts... without waiting for them to complain.
Apparently this is unusual. I can't imagine doing it any other way; I mean,
who wants to deal with thousands of emails from customers who are owed account
credits?
~~~
bartoszhernas
It is wonderfull product, I love simplicity of it.
One question though, why don't you allow me to set up recurring billing? Eg.
if credits go below 10€, charge 10€.
~~~
db48x
Storing credit card numbers is annoying (unless you don't care to do it right,
but it's pretty clear he does care). On the other hand, there are payment
processors that will handle that sort of thing for you, for a fee.
~~~
bpicolo
Typically you're going to be storing tokens from e.g. Stripe these days, and
not raw cards. Major card carriers provide the same service too. Still worth
doing well and securely, but much less risky
------
gpayal
Consistent updates(mostly daily) on email with screenshots and quick short
screencasts. A lot of times a particular feature takes more than a day to
complete and be pushed to some server for client to actually see what it looks
like. But if I create in progress screenshots and videos from my dev machine
it always impresses my clients.
~~~
stefek99
Yeah, always taking screenshots + Screenflow (on Mac) or Camtasia / SnagIt (on
Windows)
~~~
j_s
Appreciate the recommendations. For Windows I recommend ShareX:
[https://github.com/ShareX/ShareX](https://github.com/ShareX/ShareX)
Tools like these also make it easy to create documentation that is a step-by-
step walkthrough of each process.
There is also an entire class of tools designed to screenshot automatically to
track work:
[http://alternativeto.net/software/timesnapper/](http://alternativeto.net/software/timesnapper/)
------
dbg31415
These are a few things that have gotten me praise over the years:
1) Keep emails short. I set a 200 word max on all emails. If you can't say
what you need to say in 200 words, schedule a meeting to discuss. If you have
to send long documents, send a 2-3 sentence summary. Tell them what you're
going to tell them, tell them, tell them what you told them... in 200 words.
(=
2) Keep detailed time records and make them available to the client on-demand.
They paid for it, might as well show them what they are getting. Be honest...
if your team wasted 4 hours trying to make sense of a BS email from the
client... make sure they understand that.
3) Being on time and inclusive; inviting them to daily standup meetings with
the team, and posting notes from those standup meetings in case they (or
anyone else) can't be there. Easy with a Google Sheet to just type a few notes
each day during standup. I don't have any tools for the team that the client
can't access, or hasn't been given a rundown on how we utilize it.
~~~
Jaruzel
I like the 200 word thing. I'm gonna give that go. :)
------
gk1
Call them out when they're wasting money on marketing. This has been in my
"blog post drafts" folder for a while, but the short version is: One of the
first things I do on new projects (I'm a customer acquisition consultant) is
review the running campaigns and their results from the past few months. Not
clicks—which is what all the dashboards show you—but actual results like
signups and new customers.
Almost always I find money being drained away. There was the time when a
company targeting Python developers was losing its AdWords budget on snake
enthusiasts. Another time a mobile analytics company was spending thousands on
people searching for free apps. In another case a company whose ads went to a
404 page and nobody realized. Also recently I found that an SEO agency was
falsifying results to one of my clients (the contract was quickly terminated).
I don't know if "blown away" is the correct phrase. It's more like a brief
moment of embarrassment followed a huge sense of relief that a budget leak was
found and plugged.
PS - The companies described here have successful products made by brilliant
people. This is more a symptom of hiring the marketers who don't have the
skill (or intention) to demonstrate the results of their efforts.
------
JoachimS
One thing we did a few years ago when we found that a customer didn't use
revision control was to bring in a server. A small PC with Linux, Subversion
and Trac. We not only could explain the benefits of RCS, but the customer
could see changes, att issues, get them resolved etc. When the job was done,
the customer kept the machine.
I occasionally bump into old customers and many still run the same server. All
of them are today using revision control systems.
So basically we didn't just provide a tech solution, but also brought in
methodology and free tools to implement that methodology.
~~~
JensRantil
Do they have a backup of it? :-)
~~~
itsthecourier
The client accepted a faustinian deal there! :p
~~~
JoachimS
;-)
I hope and don't think so. Demanding them to use ClearCase, that would however
been pure evil.
------
seanlinehan
Lower their prices, without prompting. At Flexport we sell logistics services.
The price of ocean freight is highly variable (less dynamic than, say, the
stock market or airline seats, but still fluctuates a ton). We make money by
brokering these services. In some cases, the price of freight drops in the
time between customers when contract us (and agree to a price) and the service
gets executed (when we contract with the asset owner). We pass those savings
on to the customer and let them know. This usually results in big joy, all
around.
~~~
BigJono
Interesting, if the price rises do you pass that on to the customer too or do
you take the hit?
~~~
seanlinehan
Depends on the situation. Our rates have expiration dates attached to them, so
if the price went up before our negotiated rate expired, we will eat it. If
the rates expired, we leave it to the judgment of their account manager on
what to do.
~~~
ohstopitu
just out of curiosity - the value that your customers see...is it actual cost
+ your fee? (hence you can collect the fee even if the actual cost reduces?)
~~~
seanlinehan
Yeah, classic brokerage biz model. We contract in bulk with asset owners and
sell piecemeal.
------
johngalt
Generic company sysadmin.
I have a rotating list of power user tips. I'll pick one to show someone
during a trouble call (provided no one is in a huge hurry). It has to be
something cool that I can demonstrate/teach in seconds. Examples:
Snipping tool. Rather than writing down error codes.
Windows key + start typing the program name. Rather than navigating the start
menu.
Piles of excel tricks. (everyone loves excel)
The big thing is knowing your audience. People enjoy _participating_ in
something, not just being shown things they can never accomplish. If you make
it something they can't understand it will just make them feel stupid or
frustrated.
~~~
kisna72
I'd love to learn more excel tricks. Any resource you'd recommend?
~~~
trevorcreech
Joel Spolsky has a surprisingly entertaining video about excel features:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nbkaYsR94c](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nbkaYsR94c)
------
fapi1974
I'll add one here from my own business, which is customer care outsourcing.
The outbound call. Basically it comes with the territory when things go wrong.
But when you call the customer before they realize things have gone wrong they
are always, always grateful and impressed. Same thing goes for a "just
checking in to see you are enjoying the service" call. Since we have agents
sitting around all the time anyway this is time that can be used to call up
customers and impress them.
~~~
justintocci
Yes, this is true. We have set up a ping to all our clients external ip. If
they go down, we know immediately. Client never fails to be impressed.
~~~
cyberferret
Yep. we do this too. Whenever we develop a web service for a customer, we set
up uptime monitoring on the server where the app is hosted, but I also set up
ping uptime checks on most of their other server infrastructure as well.
Just last week, I was alerted at 5am that a client's email server had gone
offline. Nothing to do with us, we don't look after their emails at all, but I
immediately texted their IT guy to let him know.
He texted me back at 6am - their own uptime monitors somehow failed to detect
the DNS issue. He managed to fix it before their staff got to work that
morning, and was extremely grateful that I had given him advanced heads up on
something that was totally outside the scope of what they had engaged us for.
~~~
JshWright
Perhaps this is just a product of working at a very privacy-centric company,
but I would be _super_ creeped out by that...
~~~
cyberferret
Context: We've worked with this client for 10+ years, I know their IT team
really well. They are not a super huge organisation, and we are a tiny (read:
3 man) operation too, so the reliance on each other's services is something we
consider important to keep everything moving forward.
------
loteck
Look at how many of the answers in this thread are simply about communicating
effectively.
That mirrors my experience when I was on the service provider side, and as
someone who is now consuming those same services, I can confirm that I am most
impressed by my providers when the communications are focused, helpful and
timely.
~~~
wiz21c
>>> Look at how many of the answers in this thread are simply about
communicating effectively.
spot on
------
kayman
Respond to requests right away.
A lot of the time, when a client has a request, they are thinking out loud in
the moment. Even if I can't pick up the phone, I'll send a short email
straight away to let them know that
1\. I got the message 2\. Timeframe when I can action
~~~
stefek99
I do this all the time. "Got the message" \+ please allow some time...
------
cyberferret
1\. Deliver just a little more than they expect. Most times when we write a
web app for enterprise customers, we try and give them a little bit of extra
functionality than they ask for. One example is the user profile settings for
their sign on to our web apps - most customers are only bothered with having a
username and password, but we often incorporate things like ability to choose
avatar images or upload their own images against their profile.
We did this on one education site we developed, and also gave them the ability
to choose from about a dozen 'stock' cartoon style avatars if they didn't want
to upload their own images. The users were impressed at the handover training
session we ran, but I overhead one guy (who was indigenous Australian
aboriginal descent) jokingly remark that the stock avatars didn't have a
person of indigenous culture represented.
I took note of that, and when I returned to the office, we added a handful of
indigenous avatars as well within the hour. Client was happy that we went the
extra mile to take their offhand comment seriously and deliver on it.
2\. Saying 'No' to 'easy money' projects. We've worked with some of our
clients for over 20 years now. Mainly because often when they come to us to
add on features to their custom written apps, we often say 'No', along with
some valid data to explain why we thing the $$$ sunk into the added feature
are of very little benefit.
This has lead to them trusting us a LOT more when we go the other way. Real
world case study - we had one client, whom we developed a short term loan
application for, ask us to add a Monday morning report with customer mobile
numbers so they could do a ring around check for customers who were about to
default on their loans.
I said 'Sure, but lets go one better'. I said that along with the report, it
wouldn't take much extra work to actually have the system send out an SMS
message to all those clients as well, with details on their upcoming defaults,
and what they needed to do to fix the issue.
They were delighted and said to go for it. Well, that was two years ago, and
it turns out that the SMS messages by themselves have reduced their default
rate by an incredible amount, and they are FAR more profitable as a result.
Hmm, maybe I should have asked for a percentage of profit increase as my
payment! :)
------
julienmarie
Something we were doing when I had a web design agency was to have awesomely
beautiful and detaild proposals where we summed up the context, constraints
and goals of the project. We considered them as our first deliverable and
spent time creating beautiful indesign templates. It allowed us to stand out
from the start. Another thing is while our competitors were usually not
showing anything yet at this bidding stage, we were already delivering some
high def mockups, sometimes within the weekend. Last thing, we didn't have any
sales people. Meetings with leads and customers were directly being handled by
tech leads and lead designers, who were not there to sell, but to advise and
find solutions with the client, explaining and integrating the client within
the process from the start. All in all, we won all the biddings at the time
despite being usually 30% more expensive. Something we were doing also is to
include free perks that didn't cost us anything and was making a lot of
difference for them ( free access to our email marketing platform, server
monitoring, etc... ).
~~~
zielperson
This is so important.
We had this experience (as a client) when we went around to find a venue for
our wedding (100 people).
The restaurant that got the bid wrote us a personalized letter, included
information on the town and hotels that would be available for guests nearby,
etc etc..
The rest just sent short notes.
As a leader in an IT department, I asked for proposals for a 40K software
review.
All of them responded with no-brainer copypaste letters. All but ONE, who took
their time to make a good, detailed offer.
They called me, we met for an hour with their experts, THEN they made a
thoroughly thought out offer.
Guess who got the job?
------
babayega2
I discuss wit a client about some data they collect using an Excel form.
Prototype quickly under one hour a small CRUD app based on Django and set
Django Import-Export [0]
Get an easier Excel sheet containing data. They're gaga about that. I've won
contracts just by showing them that they will get all the data in an Excel
sheet.
[0]: [https://github.com/django-import-export/django-import-
export](https://github.com/django-import-export/django-import-export)
~~~
tomcam
Sweet move. A lot of stars on Github tells me you are spreading lots of joy to
your peers all over.
------
gmarcus
My business develops mobile apps for clients. They love when I analyze major
announcements from Apple / Google and explain how the new features may apply
to their apps. They feel they have a partner, and it typically results in new
development for us.
------
notlisted
Tell them the truth, even if it means fewer projects/billable hours for me.
Every single lead I've talked out of working with me, has referred me to
another customer and/or came back weeks-years later with a bigger project that
did make sense to pursue.
Choice quote: are you allergic to money?
~~~
justintocci
i would say about half of the leads i talk into trying someone else send a
referral, but that isn't why i do it. Our field is so large. It's important to
not get distracted. Of course, this assumes you have a plan.
------
pknerd
I am a developer and usually writes web scrapers or automation tools most of
the time beside typical web development. A couple of things I did and worked
for me.
\- I offer them more than what they expect. At times scraping additional info
which I think is useful but they did not realize I extract that too. Sometimes
they ask for the script or data, one of them and I just offer them both and
they appreciate it lot. Though that _script_ is not helpful for them and they
eventually come to me but it's just increase their trust.
\- It sounds silly and dangerous but often I don't ask advanced payment from
clients and prefer to show off some skills, mostly it was quite helpful and
they worked me on other projects as well.
~~~
rgzn
How did you get into doing scraping contracts? I often write web automation
scripts and scrapers for gathering research data, but have never figured out a
way to get contact work.
------
trelliscoded
Anticipate their emergency procedures, and ship them a binder wrapped with
dire warnings should it be removed from the data center. Multiple customers
have said this has saved their bacon.
~~~
janci
could you please elaborate? What's in the binder?
~~~
trelliscoded
Emergency procedures for administrating the network gear. There's two
sections: 1) symptom->fix procedures, and 2) how to rebuild everything in the
network from scratch in case it got wiped.
The reason it's in hardcopy is because you can't look stuff up on the Internet
if the Internet is down.
------
elorant
Build much better UIs than my competition. It's a known issue, we developers
rarely take the time to bother with UI and it's a shame because it makes all
the difference in the world, especially in web apps. Clients can't tell
technical superiority, they can only judge from what they see and if your UI
is stellar you'll make selling a lot easier. And you know, judging from the
fact that so many of us are afraid of the sales side this could be a
lifesaver. Build better UIs to counteract the fact that you suck at sales.
~~~
omarchowdhury
Portfolio, please.
~~~
elorant
Most of my projects are subscription based SaaS web apps specifically aimed
for a local (non-US) market. Showing them wouldn’t do you any good because
you’d need an account to view the service and it would attract unwanted
attention. Contrary to the prevailing HN mentality, I prefer to fly under the
radar.
~~~
ARCarr
I think he just wants to see screenshots...
~~~
omarchowdhury
If that's all I wanted I can go to Dribbble or Behance. Was genuinely
curious...
------
neals
My rates! Seriously. That's how high they are and that's where I want them.
But because I pick up the phone when they call and I seem trustworthy, they
pay it. Also, I take my work very seriously, and they get what they pay for.
Contrary to what I read here, I put me first, my company second and the client
third. I think that in consulting, this is the only way to stay sane and
deliver on time and to spec.
------
angrymouse
I work in a large health organisation right now and the thing that seems to
blow most away is just saying yes.
I don't work in the IT department and they basically say no to everything.
Regardless of business value or difficulty.
I work in the chief executive office and numerous departments will be amazed
when I say yes... Let me look into that.
Recent example was a publicly facing, real-time waiting time tracker for the
city's A&E (as well as two walk in centres). Each solution I thought of had
compromises but they chose the one they could live with.
~~~
orly_bookz
Healthcare IT is one of the most backwards areas of IT to work in, I think, in
large part because of the legal red tape around everything clinical. So you
get a lot of people that say no automatically.
Additionally, I think you get a lot of people that don't really have an "IT
mindset." I don't know about where you work but in my neck of the woods we
have so many people in programmer positions that can't even write a three line
script. They're great at clinical stuff because they came from there (e.g.
nursing) but have no technical background...
~~~
michaelt
I have a different theory: For many IT applications you can tell users to
conform to the system's needs or take a hike. With healthcare (and some other
government type services) you don't get that option.
If I'm Amazon and you don't have a computer? Sorry, come back when you do. No
e-mail address? Sorry, come back when you have one. No credit/debit card?
Sorry, come back when you have one. Don't know your postal address? Sorry,
come back when you know it. No phone that can get SMSes? Sorry, come back when
you've got one. Don't speak any of the languages we use? Sorry, come back when
you do. Unable to pass a captcha? Sorry, come back when you can. Bad at
reading and can't navigate our site? Sorry, come back when you can. Blind and
your screen reader doesn't work with our site? Sorry, come back when you have
a different one. Child that doesn't know their own name? Sorry, come back with
a grown-up. No address because you're homeless? Sorry, come back when you've
got an address.
Companies that can decline service for such people can make many simplifying,
cost-saving assumptions in their IT systems.
If you can't decline service (Hospital, voting etc) you need to deal with such
corner cases - and combinations of several. I can understand how getting that
right would raise costs substantially.
------
chrisbennet
I don't know if these things "blow them away" but I do think they are
differentiators:
\- I bring homemade cookies to our first meeting and if the client likes them,
to subsequent meetings. The first time I did this for purely selfish reasons;
I like cookies but I'll eat the whole batch myself unless I get someone else
to "take a cholesterol bullet" for me.
\- I'm extremely honest and forthcoming. I tell them that it may sound like
I'm trying to talk them out of hiring me but what I'm actually trying to do is
make sure we're a really good fit. I tell them even the non-flattering data
about my capablities or lack thereof i.e. I've told more then one potential
client "I can _spell_ 'SQL'" when they tell me they'd like to incorporate a
data base in the product they want me to make. (But my wife is an expert and
she'll help me out.) I tell them my estimates are usually off by a factor of
4X. You know what is worse than not getting a contract? Getting a contract
where you can't make the client happy.
\- I tell them that they can probably do the job without me - and I mean it.
"Here's how I would do this. ... That part might be tricky, I can't remember
off the top of my head but I'll look it up and send you some links on this..
Buy me lunch and you can pick my brains."
\- Communicate even when there is no news or it's bad news. "I still haven't
received your hardware but I wanted to call so you'd know before you left for
the weekend. I'll call the vendor on Monday."
~~~
SXX
Looks like a good strategy to find the job you're going to enjoy, but is it
working well for you in the long run? Or you just have enough savings at bank
to not rush until you find a good position?
Since I wish to find some non-freelance job in future, but requirement of
bullshit talk scares me. And few times when I attempted to act similar to what
you posted I just bumped into a wall of misunderstanding.
~~~
chrisbennet
I'm hard wired for the "honesty thing" but started going out of my way a few
years ago after a bad experience.
I interviewed with a company for a contract and I had told them I only had 5
days of experience in technology X. They hired me and then let me go after a
week because they needed a true expert to fix something in time to ship. I
said them "I _told_ you I only had 5 days experience with technology X, why
did you hire me when you needed an expert??!"
The manager responded "We just liked you so much!"
After that experience, I would tell them [interviewers] right at the beginning
of the interview that I was going to try my best to "open my mind and let them
peek inside" and give them any data they might need to reject me. I'd tell
them, "It's going to sound like I'm trying to talk you out of hiring me but
I'm really just trying to make sure we're a good fit." Somewhere in there I'd
tell them the above story so they'd know why I was taking such an unorthodox
approach (and offer them another cookie).
I'm a freelancer with multiple clients now. I have too much work so I guess I
have the luxury of not taking jobs that aren't a good fit. That said, being so
confident that you can be radically honest with a potential client or
interviewer, also signals competency. A desperate person doesn't behave that
way.
------
justintocci
Answering the phone when it rings. Not so much old clients, but new clients
are consistently impressed with this. A lot of our competitors don't answer
and some don't even have voice mail.
~~~
fapi1974
I like this one. I'm a bit biased because I run a customer service business so
that's a big deal for us, but even I am impressed when someone just picks up.
------
fecak
Show them how to do it themselves, and teach them "why" I do things the way I
do them. I write resumes for clients and do them in Google Docs, and I invite
the client into the doc from the very start. They can actually watch (in real-
time, if so inclined) the work being done at all stages in the process.
Lots of them will ask why a certain decision was made that seemed unusual, and
sometimes the dialogue gets into some rather detailed nuances of how readers
interpret bits of information and how it's delivered. I came to resume writing
after ~20 years in recruiting, so I am able to provide insight into what the
audience for their resume is thinking.
Clients say they like the collaborative approach and appreciate that they
learn things that they can apply next time (and not have to pay for the
service again).
------
v4n4d1s
We clean devices, such as notebooks and keyboards, before returning them to
our internal customers/users.
~~~
orly_bookz
That's a very nice service but I'm not sure I'd like to do it.
When I did support for a university we very specifically could turn down items
(mostly laptops) that were too grody to work on. Most of the techs used their
own keyboards and mice regardless but still... some people are pretty abusive
to their hardware (gunk, stains, very clear food spills, etc).
Though I guess the SOP wasn't to say "ew get that out of here" but rather
"here's some wet wipes can you please wipe it down we make everyone do this"
which wasn't even remotely true.
------
barbolo
I'm partner of a B2B business.
We send cards and/or gifts on Christmas for every client. I and my partner
write all the cards. We always thank the client for being with us another year
and we ensure them we will do everything possible for the next year to be even
better.
We haven't lost a client in the past two years. We have about 30.
------
technotarek
Using web dev tools / inspector during a screen cast demo, either to modify a
style or to show a site/app's responsive behavior. Simple, I know, but it
comes off as some form of wizardry to many clients.
~~~
bshimmin
I think you want to be careful with that - you don't want to make the magic
that we do look too easy. "Can you just quickly change all the fonts on our
massive, complex site to Comic Sans? I saw you do it in the demo the other day
and it looked like a two second job..."
~~~
hoschicz
Then just explain to them, why it won't be so easy.
"Comic Sans is licensed by Microsoft and can't be used on the web" "When we
build websites, we first write it in another language and then pass it through
a program that translates it so that browsers understand it. Adding Comic Sans
would require us to make changes deep in the 'translator' program that is
supplied by a third party." "Comic Sans is cancer, see these links. Designers
all over the world hate it. If I had a site with Comic Sans on it in my
resume, I would seem very unprofessional to a lot of potential clients."
I usually explain them the problem I'm facing in non-technical terms.
Of course, and I bill my time spent doing this.
~~~
hoschicz
Ad quote 2: When I showcased it to you, I edited the code for browsers
directly.
------
ryanmarsh
Build a rudimentary CI pipeline that automatically runs some kind of test.
Don't roll your eyes. You might live in a JS filter bubble but there are a lot
of impoverished developers working in software engineering ghettos.
------
sgt
Our clients tend to be blown away by map widgets. If we showcase an
application and then bring up the embedded Google Maps view, e.g. with
different kinds of overlays, most clients are completely blown away.
------
johnnycarcin
I am in a pre-sales position so I am already typically on the clients shit
list. Unlike most of my counterparts, I have lived in the world of ops and
development and know how fun it is to get a call at 3am when something is
down. I use my past experiences to explain to the customer why I would do
things a certain way or why I think something might not be a good fit. I
listen to what the customer has to say (something many in my field seem to not
understand) and try to come up with something that fits well for THEM, not for
my bank account. I have had multiple people from various companies I have
worked with tell me that they really appreciated my honesty and I typically
get great customer satisfaction reviews, even if the project doesn't go that
well.
To me it really is as simple as don't be a dick.
------
DrNuke
As a consultant and advisor, I add value in the sense that I move my clients
forward very fast, whatever they need at the stage they are. Need strategy? We
devise a plan together. Need sales? We make calls together. Need r&d? I have a
network to rely upon. Need introductions? We have a look at the sector and
agree the approach. Need a deliverable? We have a look at capabilities and try
the shortest path to put out something for sale. Need services? We test the
market together. Blowing away = moving forward efficiently, safely and as soon
as possible. That said, the ultimate problem everywhere is sales, so just help
clients sell their sh*t and they will be happy, very happy, very very happy.
------
lowglow
Hand written christmas cards are always a big hit.
------
mattbgates
I am the web developer/web designer that usually picks up where other web
designers left off or "disappeared". They usually leave without a trace or
they leave their client with a broken website. I also take them from being
charged a fortune down to being charged a much fairer price. I know I could
probably continue to charge them a fortune, but I just don't do that to
people. I tend to go after people who are on a "shoe string" budget. I mean..
I charge them enough that I'm being paid for my time, but I am willing to work
with their budgets.
I also offer something that I find most web people don't: I offer them good
customer service. I answer my emails within 24 hours and I pick up my phone
usually when they call or I get back to them asap. I try to give them a
reasonable price and I expect payment upon delivery of my invoice.
I have just a few clients, but I've never had issues. And most of the time
that is what my clients have confirmed that I have offered that no one else
offers: customer service. It's just being extremely supportive. They want to
know that someone is there when there is a problem. There is nothing worse
than the feeling of running a business.. and knowing that you are screwed or
worse -- you have to pay someone you don't know a fortune in an emergency
situation.
------
rgbrgb
On our real estate listing / brokerage site, we have a "GET MORE INFO" button
on every property. When a user hits that they'll get an automated response
with a title report, but then our agents will follow up the same day with a
short note about the property and any additional info we can find. The human
follow up tends to be a magic moment and if our agents are able to provide
some juicy info, the customer usually sticks with us for their purchase.
------
moflome
Mobile app development - releasing a binary download (MVP) in a few days which
delivers the bulk of the clients required functionality.
Somehow, at least for (native?) mobile, the spec to implementation
transformation still seems magical to many of our clients. I personally think
it's the rapid turn around. It seems there's an expectation still that the
development will take longer and thus the reaction?
~~~
Humdeee
I do this as well. Simple, rudimentary prototypes can be made in relatively no
time flat. And it's never really that ugly anyway.
------
stunthamsterio
I spend a lot of time picking up existing and 'legacy' platforms, and it
consistently seems to impress my clients when I'm able to implement
automation, even on so called 'un-automatable' platforms.
I also think it's the ability to understand that the business and the
technical elements may not always work in lockstep, and being able to
translate the needs of one to the other.
------
justintocci
Obviously anything non-trivial. Lately i've been mixing version control with
various things that haven't gotten that feature yet.
~~~
myroon5
Could you elaborate on which various things? Interested to know
~~~
justintocci
Another was version control for bom/assembly processes. They wanted a visual
tool for showing the differences. Sort of like a diff tool, but all the files
were shown instead of just two at a time. Also, who made the changes.
~~~
_sammcf
As an engineer currently migrating decades old paper records to an entry level
ERP, this would be an amazing killer feature that would blow my non-engineer
co-workers away.
Basic version control on product data without shelling out for a massive
overkill PDM/ERP/CAD integration would make me pant with hot joy.
------
nunez
Overcommunicate. Even when things are going wrong.
~~~
timdeneau
*especially when something goes wrong
------
reubenswartz
I wouldn't say "blows them away", but apparently, customer service is
generally bad enough that these things often provoke a pleasantly surprised
reaction:
1\. Make it clear that solving their problem is paramount. Not your policies,
not getting off the phone ASAP. Sometimes it's something you can help them
with directly with your product, sometimes you can't, but just treating them
like a person you want to help instead of someone to hang up on is apparently
unusual. (This is also a good fit for a lot of the techie folks on HN.)
2\. Send a handwritten note. My handwriting is terrible, practically
illegible, but people like that I took the time to write to them with pen &
paper. Ironically, I didn't do this for a long time, because I thought it
would look cheesy, but I gave it a shot and realized I like the little bit of
gratitude it brings into my day-- that's really why I do it.
------
williamwrites
Not a developer but love technology: I began my organization skills by
deconstructing simple BASIC games when BASIC was around as a pre-teen. Now,
I'm hired to organize physical and electronic records, establish filing
systems, workflows, and make physical records match the electronic records.
Create presentations that gather audiences' attention while not taking over
from the speaker.
Desire to break into business analysis and have performed the work but not
enough to make it official.
Past life created billing reports and client bills for a law firm. That took
their THREE day billing process to less than one day on a sneakernet Access
DBMS I designed.
Have also created feasible project and organizational budgets for humanitarian
nonprofits.
Created an ad-hoc computer class for uneducated adults. Was told, "I've
learned more with you in 15 minutes than a whole week at the community
college." I purchased those computers for $4.00.
------
djmill
Onsite engineers for UAT and rapid bug fix turnaround. Most bugs reported from
customers, during UAT, are fixed by the next morning for another round of
testing. This is not always the case, but for most issues, we turn them around
in less than 12 hours and the customer is blown away.
This happens ~4 times/year for major releases.
~~~
jdmichal
Used to do the same for customer deliveries. At the beginning, it was
embarrassing to even have issues come up at all. But then we realized that
there was no way we were ever going to completely duplicate their environment,
and something would always come up. We'd have to resolved by the next day, if
not the same day. That's when you learn that customers don't care that there
are problems; they care that there are solutions and that you are there to
provide them.
------
Caerus
Documentation.
I'm a sort of internal consultant in my company who often interfaces with
external customers. I've repeatedly heard that no one else provides as
thorough yet easily understood documentation. They value the results, but
value truly understanding them and being able to follow how I got them almost
as much.
------
franze
I get marketing, developers, content-people, biz-dev, product, higher
management, middle-management ... in one room ... and after 2 days we produce
a prioritized roadmap on how to move the company forward. Plus: No dead
bodies, they actually liked beeing there.
Most of the time they can't believe it either. It's fun.
~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
That sounds awful. How do you avoid dead bodies?
~~~
franze
establish a framework of thinking that is outside of their usual modus
operandi / way of thinking. so they are all fish out of the water ....
together.
------
caseysoftware
At my last company, when someone sent a solid bug report, made a good pull
request to our docs, or asked for swag, I'd send them some gear with a
handwritten note and my card.
People went _crazy_ about the handwritten note and got thank you notes for the
note! I think it was so different that it was a cool surprise.
------
bookofjoe
Wake them up from their general anesthetic. Never fails.
------
BjoernKW
Speaking as an independent IT consultant: Listening and trying to truly
understand the problems they have (at least I try to do that as much as
possible). Then solving those problems in perhaps unexpected ways. It might
sound a bit trite but from my experience business software development often
tends to get stuck in a rut and less than optimal or even harmful practices
are perpetuated because "it's always been done this way". Cargo cult is an
eminent problem in business IT processes that goes unchallenged far too often.
Effective knowledge transfer is another aspect. Not just coding up a solution
but teaching others how to solve specific problems by themselves is highly
valuable.
------
flarg
Requirements analysis in UML blows a lot of my clients away, it lets them see
the world in a different way for the first time. I don't think I'm great at
it, shows how rarely this is really done for large institutional customers.
------
lon124
What a great question. I find it's always the little things that do the trick!
Here are my top 2:
I have a simple motto: I aim to save my clients money. This can work in lots
of different ways, shaving a day off development here or there, coming up with
cheaper solutions, even outsourcing little tasks to UpWork or automating them
via an existing web service.
#2: At the end of each week, I like to send a quick summary email. I got that
tip from another freelancer. Even though clients have access to online project
management, it gives them additional reassurance and they go into the weekend
with a sense that you're doing good work on their behalf.
------
eli
When they send us an email, even a reply to a mass email, a real person reads
every message and follows up. Simply thing, but people are routinely
surprised.
------
MWil
Organizing their 4,000 pg VA claims files that are essentially their last 30
years of private and VA health records (usually already organized by facility
though), military service, military medical, and the VA claims process
The longer a claims file, the more I get excited because the chance of a VA
error is already very high - in a 4,000 pg file I can guarantee at least one
big one
------
ankurdhama
Ask them the questions (about the project/problem) that they never asked
themselves.
------
artpop
Tableau vizs
~~~
eb0la
DATEPART("weekday",...) is my best friend here. Usually sales, etc. on mondays
are similar to other mondays and so on...
Maybe I am overly used to this; but customers are astonished seeing that kind
of stuff...
------
the_arun
Build better products and gracefully handle every scenario. I was always blown
away by the attention to details Apple gives to its products compared to
others. For eg. Just a video on stress testing water proof behavior of Apple
watch
------
BobCat
I do bespoke personal support. I always solve their oddest problems. There's
always a way, somehow. I'm available 24/7, for those 4am calls from Singapore.
In return, they are very loyal.
Sounds like I'm bragging - maybe I am.
------
NicoJuicy
I have created an app and site where they can see when I arrive.
I have a big success rate in winning bids. I'm not a sales man, I can help
them and a proposal is discussed immediately and i just start
------
thiyag
The funniest thing I got in a package was a pair of earplugs that Moog Music
included in their Minitaur bass synthesizer's box.. I found it hilarious
------
johanneskanybal
Show that you care and build trust. If you are looking for hacks then knowing
everyones names before an important meeting is efficient.
------
babo
Listen to them. As a consultant this is the key, understand the customer first
to provide them unique, tailed answers.
------
dfederschmidt
Installing Adobe Reader.
I'll see myself out.
~~~
ohstopitu
do you install google ultron as well?
~~~
snerbles
Chromium Portable will work as Google Ultron in a pinch, the blue icon really
seals the deal.
------
JoeAltmaier
Finish on time and under budget
~~~
logicallee
all that tells me is that you're not charging enough and you're working too
hard. (KIDDING! KIDDING!!! ... or am I?)
~~~
JoeAltmaier
Oh no I'm not working too hard, that's for sure. I'm half retired by now.
And getting it done early - means they're very happy and send more work my
way. I have more work than I can do.
------
rubyfan
Consistently deliver things quickly and for less effort than competitors.
------
tonyedgecombe
Listen.
------
erkkie
Reply to their emails in an timely manner.
~~~
simonswords82
We're not setting the bar here very high are we?
~~~
jordanwallwork
It's a little thing, but it's surprising how many people don't - if you've got
a lot of work on and a someone's emailing you about something that isn't a
priority at the time it's far too easy not to bother replying immediately.
It's much better for your client if you just take 20 seconds to shoot back an
email to manage their expectations explaining that you've seen the email and
you'll aim to take a look and get them a response in the next x days/hours/etc
------
cdevs
Fix bugs in under 2 hours ...sometimes
------
jedberg
Use CloudFormation to do anything.
~~~
khebbie
Hey, you should check out Terraform ( I am not affiliated, but a happy
customer)
~~~
jedberg
I have, it's great. Both are things that customers find amazing. :)
------
samrocksc
WE DOCUMENT OUR API'S
~~~
GordonS
Not all in caps, surely?
------
petegrif
Sounds vulgar.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I found Prezi's source code - psychboo
http://blog.shubh.am/prezi-bug-bounty/
======
sophacles
My $.02 on this is that Prezi should have not awarded the researcher the cash
under the bug bounty program, however they should have given him a reward
anyway. Awarding the money as part of the bug bounty wouldn't be fair play
under the rules of that program, but he potentially saved them a TON of money
and problems. As such, he should be rewarded somehow. Further, had he been
less than honest, he may have been able to leverage the code itself to find
more than one $500 bug.
I think Prezi should have done something like this:
* Acknowledge the problem and the seriousness of it
* offer a reward, but not under the bounty, just a "thanks"
* Have him sign an NDA about the source itself, and the specific details of the issue, and the amount of the award
* Allowed him to write up the experience should he choose (good PR for prezi)
* (maybe) offered a contract for the researcher to find more such issues, or announced a different program as a result of it.
The reasoning behind doing it outside the program is that Prezi needs to walk
a fine line between saying "just attack everything and we'll pay you!", "we
are too process driven for our own good", or they end up getting bad press
from people who tried to follow the rules not getting anything, but cheaters
are getting paid.
~~~
AGuyNamedChris
>Further, had he been less than honest, he may have been able to leverage the
code itself to find more than one $500 bug.
I'm not sure I agree with this particular argument, it essentially reduces the
concept of a bug bounty to blackmail. This mindset is not a constructive one.
The tester should get rewarded for their hard work and helpfulness, not the
decision to follow the law.
~~~
Ensorceled
I think he meant scan the source code for security issues and then report
those bugs one by one ...
~~~
sophacles
That is what I meant, I should have been more clear.
~~~
Dylan16807
How is that dishonest? It sounds like a great way to improve security and get
bounties.
~~~
antoinec
I'm sure (paying) customers will be totally fine with Prezi's source code
being available to anyone that want to try to hack the site.
~~~
Dylan16807
I fail to see how that has anything to do with honesty. The source was leaked
accidentally.
------
eli
It _was_ out of scope. The rules are pretty clear:
[http://prezi.com/bugbounty/](http://prezi.com/bugbounty/) and he broke at
least two of them.
And it seems like he knew it was out of scope when he submitted it too: "I had
spent a total of 2 hours sifting and crawling through their services which
were _in scope_ , but wanted to see if I could locate any _other_
subdomains..."
Now I think Prezi should probably have paid him anyway because that's a pretty
boneheaded error and I'd be very grateful if someone politely pointed it out
to me... but they aren't obligated to. You can put your pitchforks down.
~~~
duiker101
So because it was out of scope it means that it could not have harmed the
company so he should have just left it there?
~~~
lmm
You're not entitled to a bounty just because you found a bug. Some companies
offer these bounties and it's good that they do, but that doesn't mean every
company is obliged to offer them, or that a company that offers bounties for
some bugs is obliged to offer them for all bugs.
~~~
shubhamjain
How about a moral obligation? Honestly, it sounds like if a taxi driver
returns a bag full of cash to the owner, it is perfectlly alright if they just
say "Thank you" and walk him to the road. Legally: nothing wrong, morally:
being a greedy asshole.
~~~
kbenson
That's an interesting point of view. I consider it being a greedy asshole when
you feel entitled to a reward for doing the right thing.
~~~
iwwr
It should absolutely be in the interest of companies to reward security
researchers who find flaws in their systems. Otherwise, they will be screwed
by the less scrupulous.
~~~
kbenson
We are talking about different things. Sure it's in the company's best
interest, just as it is in the interest of someone that loses their wallet to
offer a reward. That said, when nothing is offered up front (possibly because
the problem is unknown), to feel _entitled_ to a reward and disgruntled when
one isn't offered is not what I would call "moral" behavior, as brought up
farther up-thread.
It's moral when you do it because it's obviously the right thing for everyone
involved. When there's money involved, that's something else.
~~~
pyre
Just because you're complaining doesn't mean you feel entitled. If someone is
rude to me and I complain about it, and I expressing that I feel _entitled_ to
have non-rude interactions with this person? If I post a negative book review
am I feeling _entitled_ to a good book?
~~~
kbenson
But is it rude for someone to not monetarily reward you for doing something
good? That's what I was replying to up-thread. To feel you deserve
compensation for a good deed when there was no prior agreement as such is
indeed entitlement.
This thread hasn't really been about the article for a while. It's been about
someone feeling that people that don't reward for good deeds are greedy
assholes, which I think sets a bad precedent. If you want to incentivize fine,
but let's not confuse that with what the _right thing to do_ is.
_How about a moral obligation? Honestly, it sounds like if a taxi driver
returns a bag full of cash to the owner, it is perfectlly alright if they just
say "Thank you" and walk him to the road. Legally: nothing wrong, morally:
being a greedy asshole._
Edit: Fixed truncated second paragraph.
------
toddmorey
Why even have a limited scope on bounty programs? (This is not the only time
I've seen that.) Is it only to limit payout? Are their legal reasons? For
example, their client tablet applications are ineligible. I just don't get the
reasoning.
In their position, I'd pay him the $500 and remove the idea of scope. I'm just
curious if there's some counter-argument I'm not thinking about.
~~~
eli
Well of course there have to be rules. Does spear phishing employees email
accounts and using their password to access control panels count as a bug? I
bet I could hack a lot of companies that way. Does being susceptible to a
massive DDoS count as a bug? Cutting power to the building?
I can't speak for Prezi, but it seems like they want people to test the
security of their app, but not of their employees or back office
infrastructure. Maybe you disagree, but it's their bounty and I think those
are fair rules.
~~~
nostrademons
Large tech companies routinely run pentest exercises against themselves that
involve phishing their own employees. Good security has to include educating
the human element as well: if you have great technical security but all you
have to do to get in is ask an employee their password, you've lost.
Large companies also invest significantly in protection against massive DDoS
and power cuts to the building, along with drills for earthquakes and zombie
apocalypses.
~~~
eli
I wasn't trying to say those things aren't really security problems... just
that they perhaps aren't things you'd want random people on the internet
attempting to exploit.
------
colinbartlett
There should be some neutral third party non-profit that adjudicates bug
bounties so that security researchers don't need to worry that their efforts
will go to waste.
Companies could sign on to using this third party and pay a fee and put up
escrow for the service. This would motivate researchers to find bugs for those
companies that utilize the service, knowing payment will be impartial.
~~~
christianh
A simple option is CrowdCurity - reward programs as a service. Private or
public, dollars or bitcoin payments - everything setup and managed for the
companies.
[https://www.crowdcurity.com/](https://www.crowdcurity.com/)
Disclosure: I'm co-founder of CrowdCurity
~~~
xerophtye
You know, you are just harming yourself this way. If you must show your stuff
on HN, why not post it as a ShowHN?? why do this dishonorable thing to gain
attention? IMO it actually harms you.
~~~
xerophtye
a down vote? :O but why? i thought we were unanimously against plugs?
~~~
vvvVVVvvv
You didn't get the memo ? There's no such thing as a single we anymore.
------
Systemic33
What is the gain in setting up a "Can you hack us?" and then make some parts
out of scope?! It's not like a black hat hacker would go "Oh well, this isn't
their usual domain, so It's not fair" -.-
The only thing this causes is exceptionally bad PR, or even worse for the
company; someone just got access and you don't know. Access to source code is
like the gold mine of finding an exploit, because you will know exactly where
a vulnerability is, and you won't even have to blindly test it.
~~~
gabemart
> What is the gain in setting up a "Can you hack us?" and then make some parts
> out of scope?! It's not like a black hat hacker would go "Oh well, this
> isn't their usual domain, so It's not fair" -.-
This suggests that anything less than perfect security is worthless. Which is
better, having pentesters look for vulnerabilities in 50% of your surface
area, or having pentesters look for vulnerabilities in 0% of your surface
area?
Setting up a bug bounty program has a cost, both in terms of processing the
data submitted and in potential disruption of the provision of services. This
cost will differ from attack vector to attack vector. Having pentesters dress
up as utility workers and attempt to sneak into your company offices to
install keyloggers will have an extremely high cost in terms of disruption.
This cost may be higher than the potential benefit of learning about the
company's vulnerabilities in this area.
There are also some attack vectors that may be problematic to allow pentesters
to probe due to third-party contracts, data protection laws, compliance
issues, etc.
You may disagree with the particular areas a company chooses to define as out-
of-scope, but to claim that having any areas off-limits renders the whole
enterprise pointless is reductive and incorrect.
~~~
r-s
> This suggests that anything less than perfect security is worthless. Which
> is better, having pentesters look for vulnerabilities in 50% of your surface
> area, or having pentesters look for vulnerabilities in 0% of your surface
> area?
Is this supposed to be rhetorical?
Say you buy a really good front door for your house, and forget to put a back
door on your house. I would say that testing the security of the front door is
a waste of time.
~~~
csallen
You should read the rest of that post instead of stopping at the point you
quoted. I think he makes a good point: There are real costs associated with
expanding security, and there are points at which those costs _can_ become
unreasonably high.
I think your point is too extreme. Locking your front door is most definitely
NOT a waste of time, because with that move alone, you've automatically
protected yourself against the subset of attackers who don't think to try the
back door. Are you still vulnerable? Yes, of course. But decidedly less so. As
the OP said, 50% is better than 0%.
The real conversation that should be taking place is not whether or not a
limited scope should exist (it should), but how far that scope should extend
given the costs of extending it.
------
nikcub
Exhibit A of why having a scope for bug bounties is a terrible idea. What is
the point of testing your app for esoteric bugs when your entire source code
and passwords can be Google dorked?
~~~
mtrimpe
Or for expanding the scope when you realize it's obviously too narrow.
------
halacsy
I'm hp co-founder and CTO of prezi. We learn from our mistakes, we have
changed the program: To improve the program from now on we will reward bug
hunters who find bugs outside of the scope provided that they do not violate
our users’ information and that their report triggers us to improve our code
base. We will also retroactively check to see if other reports found issues
that fall into this category. More info at
engineering.prezi.com/blog/2013/12/03/a-bug-in-the-bugbounty/
~~~
agrias
This should be up-voted some more so people can see the resolution. I'm glad
you guys decided to reward the bug hunter for his time as well as provide a
response.
------
ddoolin
"Out of scope". Wow. Even more worthwhile that such a huge out of scope bug
was found. These companies seem to try anything to keep from paying bug
bounties.
~~~
gnur
To be fair, there was a scope set, and the author was fully aware of it:
> I had spent a total of 2 hours sifting and crawling through their services
> which were in scope, but wanted to see if I could locate any other
> subdomains, with the assistance of google.
While I agree that he most certainly found a "bug" (perhaps flaw would be a
better word), it was out of scope. And using credentials from an employee to
log in is nearly always out of scope.
~~~
3JPLW
That said, he could have gone "gray-hat" and used the source to find in-scope
bugs. Such a resource would be invaluable to an exploit author or bug bounty
hunter.
~~~
eli
Legally, I don't think there's much "gray" in stealing source code that
doesn't belong to you.
~~~
shawabawa3
> Legally, I don't think there's much "gray" in stealing source code that
> doesn't belong to you
I thought the whole point of gray hat is that it's possibly illegal, but not
downright "evil".
i.e. Stealing source code to fix bugs = gray, stealing source code to steal
credit card info = black
~~~
meowface
You're right, but it will still get you into legal trouble. Not only may you
not get a bounty, but they might sue or press charges for essentially copying
and scanning their source code.
Generally "gray hat" and "corporation/law-friendly" don't mix, even if there
are some cases that call for it.
------
infosec_au
Hi, I just thought I would update everyone on my experience and the last 12
hours.
At the time in which I found the bug and was not awarded for it, I was quite
upset, evident from my tone in the email in which I decided that I did not
want to receive any of their "swag", but rather give them some constructive
criticism.
I wasn't expecting the blog post to get as noticed as it did, but as it has, I
was able to observe great points on both sides of the argument of whether or
not I should be received the bug bounty. These discussions were definitely
required as they brought out some important issues with bug bounties today and
how security issues should really be dealt with.
Prezi, has now both apologised to me and also have offered to pay me for my
findings. I have updated my blog post to show this, as well as the emails
exchanged between us. I'm glad that it ended this way - all within the last 12
hours.
Initially, I did not redact the developers names, and after the blog post
became I had to rush to make sure that I had removed them from all places
which were indexed by Google. My intention was not to negatively affect the
careers of the Prezi developers affected from my findings.
I thank everyone here, and generally on the internet, for looking closer into
my findings.
Thank you, Shubham
------
j_s
Break the rules, don't get the money. Surprise!!?? After reading the entire
email thread, I think Prezi comes out better off than the OP:
_Actually we 're continuously thinking on your case and struggling on the
right move. On one hand, your finding was very useful for us, and we learnt a
lesson from it. On the other hand, intra.prezi.com is out of scope, and by
using the credentials to log in you violated the terms and conditions of our
bounty program._
...
_In the past we turned down the bounty request of people finding issues in
out-of-scope services. We had a lot internal discussions about your request:
if we were about to pay, we couldn 't justify our out-of-scope decisions for
anyone else._
~~~
jessaustin
_...if we were about to pay, we couldn 't justify our out-of-scope decisions
for anyone else._
What, are we in kindergarten? Does Prezi not have managers entrusted with
taking decisions? They can run their bounty program however they want.
That they choose to run it in this fashion sends several messages in addition
to the obvious, "we are obnoxious miserly prats". While hackers in white hats
might be hearing "concentrate your efforts elsewhere", those in black hear
exactly the opposite message. Many people who might previously have admired
Prezi for their innovation and paid them money for their services, have now
heard a reason to find other means to create presentations. Potential
acquirers and potential hires have heard that this company's management finds
running a bounty program challenging.
EDIT: Maybe I'm being too harsh. Apparently this is a largely Hungarian
company; it's possible there are cultural misunderstandings in play. From a
(perhaps cliched?) American perspective, however, following the rules is less
important than accomplishing the goals of the program.
------
nezza-_-
Bad judgement call on the site of Prezi imho. He didn't abuse it and notified
them immediately after verifying his finding as it seems.
~~~
Vivtek
And they sat on the decision until he pestered them. Not good at all.
------
jrochkind1
What this guy describes doing (using accidentally exposed credentials to log
in to somewhere) is quite a bit more than what other people have been
successfully prosecuted for violations of the CFAA for. I'd be careful.
~~~
Vivtek
You mean that Prezi, a Hungarian company, would prosecute the author, an
Australian, under an American law?
The Internet isn't just something happening in the United States.
~~~
foldr
It's a fair point, but a lot of other countries have similarly strict laws.
~~~
Vivtek
Hungary doesn't. I live here.
~~~
foldr
Really? According to this monograph even logging into a non-password-protected
wifi network which doesn't belong to you has been treated as a case of theft
in Hungary:
[http://books.google.ca/books?id=ZjBvpN0zZNkC&lpg=PA33&ots=Uq...](http://books.google.ca/books?id=ZjBvpN0zZNkC&lpg=PA33&ots=UqvV5tuTyB&dq=cybercrime%20laws%20in%20hungary&pg=PA260#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Not exactly the same situation, but it suggests that the law is fairly strict.
------
hablahaha
"We're pretty sure your actions were taken in good faith". Ouch, their email
response contained barely an iota of gratitude and it was almost on the verge
of passing judgement on his character.
------
eranation
So let me get it straight, someone, aware of their bounty program or not,
found their closed SOURCE CODE, and is getting a T-Shirt? How much do you
value your own source code? at least 10,000$ right? ;) (probably much, much
more) who cares about the scope, if someone found my wallet on the street
which had 10,000$ in it, I would give them a bit more than a T-Shirt, I would
buy them a whole wardrobe.
Think if someone found the source code for Windows / Office / Photoshop,
without any bounty program, and responsibly disclosed it to the respective
companies. If he didn't walk away with nice amount of money, he could easily
just put it in the nearest torrent site* without even feeling guilty (*this is
wrong, and illegal, don't do it)
~~~
girvo
If you found Adobes source code, they'd probably sic the cops onto you.
------
girvo
Ignoring the bounty thing for a second, their email response "we think it was
in good faith" seems... Not right to me. Am i reading that weird or did they
seem pissed about him finding something like that?
He plugged a huge issue for them, and they screw him over due to "scope"...
That's their choice, but it still seems bureaucratic to me.
~~~
rtkwe
They're talking about viewing the source code and testing the login. The
author could have just reported the leaked credentials and not logged on.
Testing them especially since it wasn't part of the program falls under
potentially extremely malicious.
------
gnu8
There should be a database of these bounty programs that can tell you if a
company pays or not, sort of like a credit bureau.
~~~
alexkus
[https://bugcrowd.com/list-of-bug-bounty-programs](https://bugcrowd.com/list-
of-bug-bounty-programs)
------
jwr
I don't understand why companies start those bug bounties and later try to
avoid paying out the rewards. If it were me, I'd book the reward amount as
"spent" the minute I decided on a bug bounty hunt.
I think this is (yet another) lesson that participating in these kinds of
bounty hunts is very risky and should only be done if the company is reputable
(which this one apparently is not).
~~~
DougBTX
How is this not reputable? They are pretty clear about when they will not sue
people trying to hack their systems, a bounty is a bonus.
------
pepe_kriek
Seems like Prezi has changed its mind about not paying. Prezi being a
Hungarian startup made a buzz in the local media with this story and one of
the leader news site reached out to them and got this reply: "Prezi: Hibáztunk
és fizetni fogunk" witch means: "We made a mistake, we will pay"
They also said that they will release a blog post and they will change the
bounty program, so mistakes like this will not happen again (hopefully)
------
randallsquared
Wow, I hope you didn't send them your physical address after this. We often
hear of companies sending the police after people trying to be helpful.
------
jcromartie
Simply by logging in he could be thrown in jail. I hope some prosecutor
doesn't get wind and decides to bring charges.
~~~
err4nt
Why is that? Weren't the login credentials posted publicly?
~~~
Heliosmaster
If you leave your door open and someone enters without your knowledge, would
you call the police?
~~~
davorak
It is closer to find someones home key in a public place and deciding to see
if it opens their door or not before giving it back.
You did not enter the house you did not explore. You turned the key, the knob,
and made sure the door would open a little.
Not something I would recommend, especially since the key had the address and
the owner name and address attached to it.
But not as bad as someone entering the home and looking around.
~~~
foldr
The analogies are beside the point. Logging in to a system which you don't
have permission to access just _is_ illegal in many countries, whether you
think that it ought to be or not.
~~~
davorak
> The analogies are beside the point.
It helps decide weather or not the legal response if any is reasonable.
> whether you think that it ought to be or not.
I was not trying to comment on what I think ought to be.
~~~
foldr
I don't see how those two statements are consistent with each other. The first
says you're trying to judge whether or not the law is reasonable, and the
second says that you're not trying to comment on what the law ought to be.
~~~
davorak
> judge whether or not the law is reasonable
I am trying to make that judgment and help others to do so.
> and the second says that you're not trying to comment on what the law ought
> to be.
If I am trying to make a judgment, if I am in the process of reasoning through
something I do not know what something ought to be.
Good analogies are those that help people reason through a problem and come to
the correct conclusion, not a tool to sway people to your opinion.
------
shabble
One wonders if he wouldn't have been better[1] off downloading their app
source, and using that to find 'in-scope' vulns much easier than everyone
else. They might catch on if you're too effective though. Maybe a spot of
plausible parallel construction.
[1] Except for the totally illegal aspect, obviously. And the not-telling-
them-their-source-is-open-to-the-world bit.
------
oskarth
Presumably the goal of the bounty was to make Prezi more secure. OP found a
serious security hole, without using a "violent" approach (spear phishing,
cutting the power, etc). OP reported this security hole.
In a legal sense, they aren't obligated to pay. There are a lot of legal loop
holes. By not paying for something that they obviously want to know, they are
discouraging other security researchers to disclose "out of scope" holes. To
what end?
_If you succeed, we will give you cash. That’s right; we’ll pay cold hard
currency into your bank account. Think of it as a thank you._ (Prezi bug
bounty site)
I guess the right way to read this is as a (legal, of course) fuck you.
------
3223f
This sends a worrying message to others - in future don't bother reporting
vulnerabilities to Prezi, just obtain the source and sell exploits to the
highest bidder.
It's no wonder security researchers turn to black hat methods, when they're
treated/compensated like shit for their effort. "Swag" in return for your
source code? What a joke
~~~
eyepulp
"It's no wonder security researchers turn to black hat methods" \-- this seems
such a binary and pointless reduction of the options available. Yes, Prezi
could have turned this into a PR and security win, and failed to capitalize;
but the assumption that now the only option for a security researcher is to
turn to the dark side is... pretty ridiculous.
Those who "turn to blackhat methods" do so because they want to make money and
don't place a premium on the potential moral/legal/ethical issues at play in
how they're doing it. They make a choice, irrespective of the shortsightedness
on display by Prezi here. Don't conflate the two behaviors.
------
psychboo
I'm noticing yet another instance of HN modifying post titles. I originally
titled this post "Finding Prezi's Source Code" specifically because I did not
write the article. Now the post title reads (at first glance) as if I'm taking
credit for the author's hard work.
~~~
welder
Both titles are misleading. The title should be:
"I found Prezi's client-side source code"
------
daviddoran
I think they acted pretty fairly by pointing out that it's the logging in that
they have issue with. Although it's not as satisfying, I think Shubham could
have submitted the link and credentials to Prezi without actually accessing
the repo. In particular, the report email contains the snippet "... I explored
the nexus console to confirm that ..." and I can understand Prezi not wanting
to encourage pen testers to explore their systems, even if they find them open
to the world.
~~~
shawabawa3
> I think they acted pretty fairly
They absolutely didn't.
I don't get how there seems to be absolutely no human side to these cases.
Guy discovers critical vulnerability and could have completely fucked the
company over. Instead he responsibly reports it, and he gets back a big fuck
you. How can you possibly think that's fair? The fact that it's out of scope
only means they should give him an out of scope reward - much higher!
Saying he could have not checked the credentials is a bit silly, because if
the credentials were invalid (quite likely), it goes from CRITICAL to MINOR.
And isn't the _entire point_ in bug bounties to _encourage_ pen testers to
explore your system? Sure, you don't really want them poking around your
source control, but better that than black hats.
All of the above aside. They really couldn't spare $500 for someone who could
have caused $millions of damage?
~~~
daviddoran
> Guy discovers critical vulnerability and could have completely fucked the
> company over.
We all frequently have the opportunity to cause damage, but we don't get
rewarded for _not_ doing so. I think Prezi may have given the cash reward if
the pentester hadn't logged in and browsed around. They probably don't want to
set a precedent (take the data you find, get cash reward).
> ... because if the credentials were invalid (quite likely), it goes from
> CRITICAL to MINOR.
Agreed, but either way the pentester won't be able to fix it. All he can do is
report his findings.
> ... but better that than black hats.
Agreed, but if you stray outside the terms of the bounty then you're no longer
guaranteed the rewards. I think the pentester tried his best to report
responsibly but I don't think Prezi are obligated to give the reward, based on
the terms.
~~~
dllthomas
_" and browsed around"_
This seems to be key. Did he just verify the credentials, or did he poke
around thereafter? If the latter, Prezi has a better case but they should have
stated it more clearly.
------
swalkergibson
I suspect that the biggest reason is that this amazingly gigantic, critical
vulnerability was so ridiculously easy to find that they cannot stand the idea
of paying someone a large amount of money to "fix" it, when the fix is to
simply deny access to that service from outside a LAN or whatever. Prezi
thought that they found all of the easy ones. Not quite.
------
edem
My problem here is that the OP did not mask the names. Actually he did quite
the opposite: he bolded them. This is no good. I can imagine the dev searching
for his name in google and finding that post.
~~~
infosec_au
Hi, I'm the author of the blog post. I've masked last names from the post and
PDF, hopefully meaning that they wont be indexed with that post. Thanks for
bringing that to my attention.
~~~
edem
Thanks, it is much better now.
------
darkbot
This is definitely out of the scope of their "bughunt", although I think the
guy should be rewarded anyway.
But I'm also quite upset with the fact that OP is outing the dev. Everybody
makes mistakes, no need to out any individual developer because OP is pissed
at the company management.
~~~
infosec_au
I realised 2-3 hours after my blog post, and rushed to redact the last names
from the post + pdf. I have now also redacted last names from the screenshots.
Sorry about that! But thank you for letting me know. :)
~~~
vertis
FYI, You can still see the url of the user on bitbucket and from there still
get a name.
------
6cxs2hd6
> "Anyways, they did try and get it right, by emailing me an apology as well
> as responding to my constructive criticism. This blog post, is by no means
> attempting to discourage people from participating from Prezi’s bug bounty,
> but rather just a blog post about how finding Prezi’s source code was not
> eligible for their bug bounty."
Passive aggressive much?
I think he should have got a bounty -- if not the official one, then a
special, _bigger_ one. However, this is an odd way to conclude the post. "Oh,
I'm not at _all_ trying to discourage others for participating, oh no no". Of
course he's trying to discourage others. With justification. I don't get it.
~~~
RyanZAG
Probably doesn't want anybody pointing legal fingers at him for harming Prezi
or something.
~~~
6cxs2hd6
Oh I see. You mean like, "Here's my experience; I decided to stop
participating. But I'm not advising you to. Offer not valid in all areas. Yada
yada..."
------
icambron
This would be unethical and I would never do it, but the interesting scenario
would have been if he'd secretly pulled the source code and used his access to
it to find a bunch more bugs. He would look like a genius and pocket a bunch
more money.
------
tantalor
The rules seem to allow a reward for this kind of vulnerability,
_What’s up with other vulnerabilities? ... we will consider if they are
eligible for a bounty or not_
_What is the bounty? ... we will increase it at our discretion for distinctly
creative or severe bugs_
Prezi explicitly designed the rules to be flexible, so they could give the
award in this case, but decided not to because "intra.prezi.com is out of
scope".
The rules about scope appear to exclude vulnerabilities in 3rd-party services
such as AWS, not backends, e.g., _the backends for our iPad and desktop
applications are in scope_
[http://prezi.com/bugbounty/](http://prezi.com/bugbounty/)
------
veszig
Here's the response from Prezi
[http://engineering.prezi.com/blog/2013/12/03/a-bug-in-the-
bu...](http://engineering.prezi.com/blog/2013/12/03/a-bug-in-the-bugbounty/)
------
lifeformed
The redacted names are kind of pointless, because they're not redacted in the
images of the emails.
~~~
infosec_au
I redacted their names from the post and PDF only, to prevent Google from
indexing and associating the blog post with them.
By doing this, future employers hopefully will not see the blog post when
searching their names.
~~~
lifeformed
Oh I see, that makes sense.
------
rohitv
Here's the cached version of the commit:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://bitbucket.org/flash42/config/commits/1934298e907b95234dca40050a2d0f6f)
The Nexus Repositories URL
([http://intra.prezi.com:8081/nexus/content/repositories](http://intra.prezi.com:8081/nexus/content/repositories))
is still not restricted
------
tbastos
It would have been easy for him to steal the source code and blackmail them
for bitcoins... companies are encouraging others to turn to the dark side by
not giving fair rewards. I'm pretty sure there are lots of smart people living
in difficult economic conditions who will now think twice before reporting a
serious vulnerability at the risk of an unfair reward. If Synack can solve
this it would be a major win for everyone.
------
kyberias
Why on earth would you ridicule the developer that made the mistake publicly?
That is just utterly idiotic and irresponsible.
------
if_by_whisky
Why not offer him the bounty in exchange for signing an NDA? If they're
actually worried about not setting a precedent..
------
dutchbrit
Finder should receive the highest bounty possible IMO.
~~~
frankblizzard
a unicorn tear
------
scotty79
I hope he downloaded their whole sourcode. That should make locating in-scope
bugs much easier.
~~~
cordite
I don't know about you, but I'm not about to proof read someone else's source
code for a system I don't even know.
~~~
Ensorceled
I'm willing to do it for $500 a bug :-)
~~~
simplemath
Easy money for an unscrupulous sort
------
joering2
What an asshole approach [1]. Please, next time someone find a critical bug in
the system, don't bother emailing them; just post it on Twitter.
[1] [http://i.imgur.com/v3W9FD6.png](http://i.imgur.com/v3W9FD6.png)
~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
The picture says "intra.prezzi.com is out of scope". Because yeah, real
attackers would _definitely_ not go looking for a back door instead.
------
prawn
Don't worry about the bounty, here, have swag that freely advertises our
company. Weak. Why should anyone put up with that?
Pay him something outside the bug bounty program. Easy and cheap solution that
could've avoided all this mess.
------
JoeAltmaier
A bounty program is to get 'white hat' hackers to find and report
vulnerabilities. The bounty is small, nowhere near what an extortionist could
charge to keep the source secret for instance.
By paying nothing for what could have been sold back to them for a huge sum,
they may disaffect hackers, who could do them real harm. You become a sucker
to volunteer for their 'bounty', and decide to turn to the dark side instead.
I think Prezi are very silly to be splitting hairs about this. They stuck the
stick in the hornets' nest, now they are arguing with the hornets.
------
SeanDav
The guy found and brought to their attention a simple exploit that could have
seen valuable source code released into the wild and the guys at Prezi are
debating about paying him a bounty?
Does this mean that Prezi do not value their code and don't believe there
would have been any significant loss if that code became public?
Are they saying that the next person that discovers serious flaws in their
security should just keep quiet - or sell it on to some hacker, where at least
they can make some money from it?
Just what message are the Prezi people trying to send by nit-picking over
$500?
------
d0m
One trick to avoid stupidities like this is to tell them what you found, but
not _how_.
How much is worth the vulnerability of having access to _all your source
code_. Just ping me if you're interested.
------
mankypro
Silly PR move on their part. They should've given this guy some shush money to
prevent this (now) PR nightmare. Shoddy security practices, shoddy marketing
and PR. Tsk, tsk.
------
jasonlmk
In case anyone missed it: Prezi finally decided to pay him the bounty.
Still a bad move to have denied him the bounty in the first place, but good to
see that they're listening to the outrage.
------
ansible
So the question I haven't seen asked in this thread is: Why is anyone still
using something other than SSH to connect to their version control system? Why
is any software still using usernames and passwords stored in plain text
anywhere? With SSH, you create SSH key pairs and set a passphrase on the
private key... which shouldn't end up in any public place, ever.
~~~
brown9-2
Well the credentials in the properties file shouldn't have ended up in a
public place ever. So if you replace username/password with a key, a human can
still accidentally publicize the key.
------
Fuxy
This policy of limiting security assessments/bug bounties to only certain
things is really stupid.
Do you really think that any extremely motivated hacker would just stick to
the arbitrary terms you set.
He will do whatever it takes to get in and by limiting security research
you're making yourself vulnerable in other areas not defined in that
assessment request.
------
mimog
Nexus isn't a source code repository. What you found was their internal
artifact server, i.e compiled jar files.
~~~
ollysb
If you look inside those compiled jar files you'll find that the code is
pretty easy to read. It's certainly enough to find vulnerabilities.
~~~
mimog
But.. that can be said about any java (jar) programs class files. It is also
not difficult to decipher the asm of a disassembled exe file, but to equate
that with finding the source code of the program would be disingenuous.
~~~
phaed
You can drag drop that jar file into
[http://jd.benow.ca/](http://jd.benow.ca/) and in two clicks you have 100% of
the source code, variable names and all. It's not the same as decompiling an C
executable by any means.
~~~
mimog
Having tested [http://jd.benow.ca/](http://jd.benow.ca/) I must admit it seems
to do a near perfect job. Impressive and scary at the same time.
------
thrillgore
Dude needs to lawyer up right now. Doing the remote login has been seen as a
violation of the CFAA.
~~~
jpatokal
Prezi the company is in Hungary, not the US, and intra.prezi.com (70.38.38.86)
seems to be in Montreal, Canada.
~~~
Vivtek
And the dude in question is in Australia.
None of this happened in the United States at all - it's amazing! Non-
Americans also have businesses!
~~~
balls187
Not very good ones, apparently.
------
pccampbell
Having stringent terms for a bug bounty program basically means you're trying
to get the community to do your team's job. Agree with @nikcub - it should be
wide open, because finding this out was huge, no matter how "simple" it may
have been.
------
chatman
Prezi deserves to be boycotted for cheating Shubham out of his bounty based on
stupid "out of scope" excuse.
If cracking an internal service is possible, a bug exploiting it should be
within scope of any bounty program.
------
eyeareque
Bug bounty program or not, I would be pretty afraid to try to log into a
source code repository without authorization to do so. It seems like a lawyer
could really go after you for doing something like this.
------
buremba
The main point is the thing that OP found is really important for Prezi. I
don't really understand why they have to figure out whether the vulnerability
is in "the scope", or not.
------
Raphmedia
So, the message they are sending is "if you find an 'out of scope' bug, sell
it on the blackmarket because even if it could wreck havoc, we won't pay you
for it."
Nice, nice.
------
Yhippa
Are bug bounties roughly the market value of security holes in software? I
wonder if this guy or less scrupulous developers could make more for them on
the black market?
~~~
girvo
If the exploits are for the right targets, you bet they're worth more on the
black market, but with great reward comes great risk: now you're doing
something that can possibly get you jail time.
------
IanDrake
Anyone else notice that "Adam <Redacted>"'s full name and contact info are
_not redacted_ in the screen print of the email?
~~~
infosec_au
I removed the last names from the blog posts and from the PDF, as they could
be indexed by Google. I have now also removed them from the screenshots.
Thanks. My intention was not to negatively affect these developers careers.
~~~
_puk
Commendable, though you probably need to redact the bitbucket link in the
screenshot too as that has Adam <redacted>'s full name as owner of the repo.
Where does it end?!
------
phaed
We should start an independent bounty in btc for whoever can find and release
their sourcecode into the public. I can donate 1 btc to the cause.
------
jayferd
"...and all I got was this stupid T-shirt"
------
thekevan
Didn't he not find a bug, but found company resources that had not been
secured properly?
------
supercanuck
Seems like acting nefarious is more profitable than doing the right thing.
------
jbverschoor
I say release the code in the wild! Where it already was
------
toryt
good article
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A Democrat is running for president on a platform of Universal Basic Income - pixelmonkey
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/10/technology/his-2020-campaign-message-the-robots-are-coming.html
======
nodesocket
How is he proposing to pay for UBI aged 18-64? The only way I would support a
UBI is to completely eliminate social programs like welfare, food stamps, and
housing assistance. It may then be cost-neutral.
Also, this language is just not accurate:
> unraveling President Trump’s tax breaks for the wealthy
It is mostly for corporations; middle-class citizens will also see a reduction
in their taxes. Until the market meltdown last week, the new tax plan was
widely praised even by very liberal business leaders such as Tim Cook. US
corporate taxes were absurdly high and tax reform has been positive in terms
of the slew of bonuses offered to employees (not executives), raising of
corporate profits, and helping repatriate huge amounts of capital back to the
US.
~~~
apedley
The tax breaks for the middle class are only temporary. Most CEO's are
praising them because it's great for them and shareholders. Most CEO's
acknowledge they will use the additional profits to perform share buy backs.
While the middle class got something, the majority went to the wealthy, and as
per my previous comment on shares, they are not going to be flooding it back
into the economy.
Also US corporate taxes were about median for the world, they were not
absurdly high, you should check out some countries in Europe for that.
~~~
nodesocket
See this NPR[1] article which listed the previous US corporate tax rate as the
highest of advanced economies. This included France, Belgium, Germany. Also
fun fact, go visit Dublin and see all the tech companies (Google, Facebook,
Microsoft, etc) who have a Europe HQ there. The reason, they have a 12.5%
corporate tax rate.
[1] [https://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797699/fact-check-does-
the...](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797699/fact-check-does-the-u-s-have-
the-highest-corporate-tax-rate-in-the-world)
~~~
jcranmer
The effective US corporate tax rate is more median. Our headline tax rates
were higher, but we also had larger deductions and tax credits.
~~~
saas_co_de
That is a very bad policy to have though because it encourages wasteful
spending on tax avoidance and rewards the companies that do it. It also gives
an artificial competitive advantage to the largest companies, who have the
scale to invest in complex tax avoidance schemes, at the expense of smaller
more productive companies.
------
pixelmonkey
Interesting notes from article:
\- Political platform centered around automation impact on labor market.
\- Proposing a UBI paid for by a higher corporate tax rate targeted at
companies benefiting most from automation.
\- Would be $1,000/mo paid to everyone aged 18-64, with no means test.
\- Candidate is the former CEO and founder of Venture for America, Andrew
Yang. He is 43 and already has backing of many Dem-leaning tech executives.
------
danschumann
I think a better solution would be a negative tax rate instead of a 0% tax
rate.
Imagine: On your first $24,000 / Year, you are taxed at -50%. This means, if
you make $12,000, you get paid an additional $6,000. If you make $24,000, you
get paid an additional $12,000. This is an additional reward for working! We
want to incentivize working!
~~~
gremlinsinc
how's that fair if you have person a working in a callcenter for slightly
better pay than person b working at McDonalds.
Person A makes 20k, person B makes 10k. Both work pretty shitty jobs -- I
wouldn't want either.. Both work the same hours. No more jobs exist for Person
A's job, so Person B couldn't rise up to their level if they wanted to.
GBI works because everybody gets it -- so nobody feels like they're getting
special treatment, nobody feels like they're on welfare (which causes a mental
stigma to begin with) and the goal is simply to cover average rents and maybe
some food. Everyone should have food and a roof.
Your plan also doesn't account for what happens when all the jobs for both A
and B close down because of automation which is the whole point for why we're
discussing GBI more and more anyways.
~~~
tylerhou
I'm pretty sure the person you replied to was being satirical.
~~~
ryanwaggoner
I’m not sure why: a NIT has some advantages relative to UBI.
------
wdn
I see this as another welfare program and we already have too many welfare
programs.
If we all see that automation is or will be a problem for the labor market,
isn’t it makes more sense to get the labor market ready to embrace the
automation era?
Instead of making our youth going through college, why not have them sent to
learn a craft or skill set?
I personal think only those who are good with school and like school should go
to higher education. For the rest of us, a 4 years experience with no debt is
far better 4 years education with 50 to 100k in student loan debt
~~~
pje
What are these jobs that you think will resist robotic automation, and how
many of them will there be? Realistically a small percentage of people will
ever be programmers in our society; we just don't need that many.
Look, we're entering a period of history where the number of tasks requiring
human labor _will only keep decreasing_. This will lead to a growing class of
people for whom the labor market cannot provide a basic standard of living.
If a stronger welfare state isn't the answer to that problem, I've yet to hear
what _is_ , exactly.
~~~
Caveman_Coder
> "What are these jobs that you think will resist robotic automation, and how
> many of them will there be?"
Trades like plumbing, electrician, lineman, P&C technician, mechanic, power
plant operator, transmission/distribution operator, welder, etc...
~~~
pje
How many more plumbers and electricians do you think we need? I see no reason
to think that the supply of those trade jobs in the labor market would
increase to match the demand caused by automation layoffs. (Also, what makes
those jobs impervious to automation?)
------
RickJWag
I heard an interesting comparison last week.
This author noted that the farm equipment revolution threw a very high
percentage of Americans out of work. They were forced off the farm and had to
move to the cities (where the industrial age was hitting it's stride.)
It wasn't easy, but it led to huge improvements in quality of life.
------
ryanwaggoner
Is there somewhere I can make a bet on whether 94% of the truck drivers will
be out of work in a few years?
I’m really skeptical.
------
m3kw9
Partial communism? There is a time for that but until more jobs are taken over
by automation or robots, this would just slow down a lot of progress
~~~
eesmith
_More_ jobs? For the last 200 years, machines have taken over entire
industries of jobs.
People to cut the crops, people to harvest lax, people to spin wool, people to
weave cloth, people to make soap, street cleaners, navvies, telephone
operators, travel agents, and the list goes on.
Sure, there are still people who do all of those, but not like it used to be.
And this transition, that is, the use of automation to increase the power of
capital by decreasing the cost of labor, is what lead to the original ideas of
full communism.
------
yequalsx
Back in the early 80s when Reagan was decrying welfare and it's costs vs.
benefits he joked that it would be cheaper for the U.S. government to abandon
the relevant federal agencies and just send recipients a check each month.
Full circle I suppose.
~~~
gremlinsinc
Wow, something I actually finally agree w/ Reagan on -- mostly because I'm
anti-bureaucracy. Mailing checks can be automated and allow for closing all
welfare offices and firing all the staff that run those agencies, cutting the
utilities, selling the land, etc...
I'm also for single-payer because we spend too much on Sales/Commercials/CEOS
for insurance companies, and medical billers who we could all put out of jobs
because all they do is figure out how to pay hospitals and collect money from
us or our employers.
I feel though that trickle-down has failed immensely. The fact is trickle-out
is what happened trickle-out-to-my-caymen-island-account.
Rich just re-invest/hoard money. Now if they'd trickled up... it would've
worked wonders for the economy. Give the poorest of the poor money --and
they'll spend it on booze/drugs/homes/food does it matter? The money still
circulates and finds it way back up to the rich/b2c businesses.
$10k given to Bill Gates goes into the bank account, and stays their
collecting dust and interest. $10k given to a struggling family goes into a
new car, or braces for Jimmy, etc... Which in turn goes to payroll for
employees at the dentist or car-lot, and that goes on and on...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
UIDebuggingInformationOverlay - ryanipete
http://ryanipete.com/blog/ios/swift/objective-c/uidebugginginformationoverlay/
======
smilliken
> be sure that the code doesn’t make it into your App Store build, else you’re
> likely to get rejected.
Doesn't appear to be the case! Here's a list of 611 apps using this class:
[https://mixrank.com/appstore/apps?expiration=2017-06-26&list...](https://mixrank.com/appstore/apps?expiration=2017-06-26&list.id=2dc1c31118&page_size=250&sharedby=scott%40deltaex.com&auth=74113e5f9290dcec)
Notably, it looks like Google, Facebook, Netflix, and Uber are all using it
(or have a dependency that is). There's been a handful that were using it
since early 2015, and a surge of several hundred towards the end of last year.
Here's the other related classes:
UIDebuggingInformationRootTableViewController
UIDebuggingInformationTopLevelViewController
UIDebuggingInformationValue
UIDebuggingInformationValueTableViewCell
UIDebuggingInformationValueViewObserver
UIDebuggingInformationViewController
UIDebuggingInformationValueView
UIDebuggingInformationOverlay
UIDebuggingInformationValueViewNumber
~~~
ryanipete
Interesting! I just assumed.
------
saidajigumi
Related to this, I'll highly recommend Reveal[1], a macOS app which allows for
(semi-)live view debugging of iOS apps. Reveal provides view hierarchy info,
and renders it on (the mac's) screen in a highly inspectable way.
Specifically, both flat 2D and a really great 3D exploded renderings of the
active views are available. This is really brilliant for acquiring a deeper
understanding of many initially opaque aspects of iOS view construction.
Likewise, the inspectors let you tweak and adjust autolayout constraint
values, frames, bounds, and other view settings live. All together, working
with Reveal restores a refreshing amount of the ease of view debugging and
iteration speed that I love about working with modern in-browser debugging.
[1] [https://revealapp.com/](https://revealapp.com/)
~~~
LeoNatan25
With the advancements in Xcode, I really don't think Reveal is worth it. It
also requires embedding a binary framework (I think it's closed source) in
your application, which can be messy for debug vs production builds. Just not
worth the hassle.
~~~
siphor
You don't need to embed a binary framework for Reveal. And I think it's still
a lot better than the Xcode tool..
I like using it to fine tune the positions of views instead of guessing and
re-running which happens occasionally. (Can't do that w/ Xcodes built in tool)
~~~
LeoNatan25
Looks like it to me, or use some scripts in the debugger for the simulator.
[http://support.revealapp.com/kb/getting-started/reveal-
integ...](http://support.revealapp.com/kb/getting-started/reveal-integration-
guide)
Still not the most convenient. I'm not sure why they need that server, because
they can discover and modify everything using the runtime.
------
CodeWriter23
Dude! You win HN for the week, at least in the eyes of this guy, currently iOS
developer guy. Just yesterday I was thinking to myself, how I needed some kind
of tool to help me visualize the view hierarchy. I ended up setting different
background colors on various views to understand my problem.
Thank you.
~~~
thedjinn
Don't forget there's also Xcode's built-in view debugger. Very useful tool!
~~~
CodeWriter23
Ha! My second hero of the week. Note to self: explore all menu options.
------
gallerdude
Not surprised all that much of Apple's hidden tools. I'd totally sign a NDA in
order to see the hidden past of Apple.
------
vshni02
Flex does same + more (network logs)
[https://github.com/Flipboard/FLEX](https://github.com/Flipboard/FLEX)
------
disposition2
Just a note about your site. The 'Website' link on the left pane, it seems to
404 on just about every page. It looks like it is a relative link, rather than
static because the domain is getting appended to the end of each source URL.
Neat find.
~~~
ryanipete
Thanks for the heads up!
------
catoc
Doesn't seem to work anymore in iOS11 (developer beta on device)
------
mchrome
Pretty cool. Hopefully they make it public in the next developer release.
------
jclardy
I wonder when this was actually added, maybe it is getting ready for an actual
release in iOS 11 later this year.
~~~
ianburns
Looking back at UIKit headers it looks like it was added in iOS 9.
------
Kipters
Shameless plug: My post[0] about how to call it from Xamarin
[0] [https://kipters.net/post/ios-debugging-
overlay/](https://kipters.net/post/ios-debugging-overlay/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Monsiv – A lightweight alternative to Chess - monsiv
https://monsiv.com/
======
the_dave_santos
Interesting game, I played against the AI. It's smart and not simply making
random moves. Well done!
~~~
monsiv
Thanks! It uses the minimax algorithm to a depth of 5. Beyond that, it starts
making silly moves :D
------
tcbawo
Fun to play and somewhat challenging. The rules are simple, but I kind of wish
there was a single pop-up with the rules. It would have saved me some trial
and error.
~~~
monsiv
Sorry, there's some rules here: [https://monsiv.com/how-to-
play](https://monsiv.com/how-to-play) Hopefully it makes more sense now!
~~~
tcbawo
Very nice. I notice I keep accidentally swapping pieces when I mean to switch
to highlight a different piece. I wonder if a dragging motion would be more
natural.
~~~
monsiv
That can be annoying, I agree. I tried to get drag working nicely when I first
started building it, but it was a pain to get it working on all the different
mobile browsers. I've put it on my TODO list to revisit though.
~~~
O_H_E
Suggestion: click select the other piece, click & hold swap them
I lost a couple of times because of that
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to advocate for an open development process? - throwaway72391
I work for a company that has committed to open-sourcing a piece of software, and work is already under way to make an open-source release possible (IP review, code cleanup, etc.).<p>However, it looks like the development process is going to largely stay the same, with in-house development and periodic source code dumps to the outside world. (For legal reasons, there will always have to be some differences between the open-source release and the internal version of the software.) That would lose quite a bit of the benefit of open-source in my opinion.<p>I'm looking for ways to convince the less open-source-affine part of the company to change to an open-source-first development model. In particular, I'd be curious if there are published post-mortems and experience reports (writeups, conference talks, etc.) that would support the argument, but other ideas are welcome, too.
======
jtfairbank
One argument that may appeal to management is that your open source codebase
becomes a powerful recruiting tool.
Many companies open source non-core code, like UI components designed for
their domain or server widgets that can be pulled out into a standalone
library. It's unlikely that your company will want to deal with the overhead
of many outside contributors, unless it's an open source business model which
it seems like it isn't. However, a couple of contributors here or there, or
even better, someone who forks the codebase but doesn't cause extra work for
you by submitting PRs, is a very strong signal that they'd make a good hire.
They're interested, know some of the code already, like what you're working
on, etc.
Since hiring is very expensive (costs 10k - 50k to make a single hire), this
has real business value and you can use it to sway management.
~~~
jtfairbank
Also, maybe they don't want to dive right in. Can you take the lead on the
open source project for a small component and run that the way you want to for
3 months to show them how it could work? Maybe let each team naturally adopt
the open source style if they want to, until a critical mass is hit?
------
brudgers
Making a business case that shows the bottom line is likely to be a compelling
advocacy method.
------
detaro
What's the purpose of open-sourcing this specific piece of software?
~~~
throwaway72391
That's a good question, actually. There's customer demand for having it open-
source, and there seems to be a vague sense among management that open is
good.
I think that most of the people involved don't see it as a chance to get
outside contributions, and that's part of the issue. Thing is, I'd like us to
avoid that becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.
~~~
detaro
The answer to that question might help to frame your suggestions. E.g.
creating a community around your project can help lessen support load – but
also make paid support offerings less attractive. If open-sourcing is seen as
a source of unnecessary work, attracting contributions can provide a gain to
counteract that "waste". etc pp.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How much can you charge per blog sponsorship? - ffjffsfr
I'm running some blog, it's not big by any means but it gets some organic search engine traffic around 5k users per month every month for past 12 months. It's not huge, but I'd like to write more and I'm sure having some sponsorship would motivate me. I noticed some blogs have sponsors, e.g. https://ma.ttias.be/ there is sponsorship link. This blog is obviously much bigger than mine, but I wonder does it make sense to ask people for sponsorshop on my blog page? How much can I ask?
======
petercooper
So I started a Ruby news blog back in 2004-2005 to help build a platform to
promote my Ruby book. No sponsors for a year or two but then Geoffrey
Grosenbach of Peepcode reached out and offered me $100/month if I put a banner
link to Peepcode in the side bar. So I took it.. and the next month I had
about 10 companies reach out wanting to do the same thing!
First lesson.. if you start running sponsors even _before_ you're getting paid
for them, people will come out of the woodwork.
Eventually I had the aforementioned blog up to several thousand $ per month,
but gave it up to focus on email newsletters instead and now there are 9 of us
doing it full time, still all funded by sponsorships.
FWIW, I would sponsor developer related blogs if they would help us reach more
potential subscribers (or even pay $ per signup), so I think there's a ton of
potential out there for both blogs and open source projects.
~~~
ffjffsfr
that's inspirational, so you're basically saying to try to put some text
saying sponsors welcome, show blog stats and wait for someone to show up and
offer something and just take offer?
~~~
petercooper
You don't even need the big stats. Just hang it off of a single number and
invite people to get in touch. TBH, more information up front is more likely
to reduce the number of leads. Just say you're getting, say, 20K pageviews per
month or that you have X number of subscribers (to RSS, Twitter, whatever).
------
finid
You don't ask. If your blog is popular enough, people will contact you for
sponsorship.
And you'll have to be hitting something like 25k users per month for them to
even bother.
~~~
ffjffsfr
how will they know my blog is hitting 25k users per month? What if my blog
will start hitting 25k (unlikely but who knows), how will they know about it
~~~
finid
At this point don't worry about sponsors. Content is king, so concentrate on
churning our good content. That will bring in more readers. In turn, that will
bring in sponsors.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to get a B.S. in CS without BS - RafazZ
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_kdHrT8izbROJNaxGflpcZm2ivsjRGF8j1hMzl3b8O0/edit?usp=sharing
======
RafazZ
I didn't know Google Docs have a limit, so here is a GitHub link to it:
[https://github.com/zafartahirov/OfficeDocs](https://github.com/zafartahirov/OfficeDocs)
Sorry about that
------
peachepe
Previous HN thread about the first version of this curriculum
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7713858](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7713858)
~~~
RafazZ
Yes, I put the link to it in the "Notes" section to give them credit for the
"skeleton" of this spreadsheet
~~~
peachepe
Yes, that's where I found it. And the previous HN thread is interesting too.
------
justmythrowaway
Wow, this is an awesome resource.
This should be an open source project on GitHub for when links get broken.
~~~
RafazZ
I was thinking about it, but GitHub doesn't handle binaries very well :(
------
belowsanity
Definitely saving for later and thanks for the goldmine!
------
crowell
Some great links here. Awesome job curating it!
~~~
RafazZ
Thanks for introducing me to HN :)
------
ArtDev
Super useful! Thank you!
------
theVirginian
any way to save this as an excel file?
~~~
RafazZ
[https://github.com/zafartahirov/OfficeDocs](https://github.com/zafartahirov/OfficeDocs)
Hope it helps
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I'm looking for a partner or two (here are some of my ideas, feel free to add your own here) - amichail
======
amichail
Anyone looking for a partner? My email: [email protected]. If you like, we
can discuss startup ideas here. In fact, this social news forum might be a
good way to throw ideas around to see which ones generate more interest.
~~~
palish
Do you have any ideas currently?
~~~
amichail
I am interested in collective intelligence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_intelligence. How would you build a
service where thousands of people collaborative to solve a problem, create a
work of art, or play a game (e.g., chess)?
~~~
palish
That's a really cool idea. I doubt it could be turned into a successful
business, but I love synergy effects.
------
extantproject
What would a completely transparent company be like? All resources, records,
and processes available for comment (maybe modification?) by anyone. People
that have run or are currently running startups could make suggestions on the
business processes, the things going on in the company, and the products or
services. Maybe the more eyes/fewer bugs idea applies to business?
I'm not sure of the full picture; It's an idea.
Cheers.
------
extantproject
What would a completely transparent company be like? All resources, records,
and processes available for comment (maybe modification?) by anyone. People
that have run or are currently running startups could make suggestions on the
business processes, the things going on in the company, and the products or
services. Maybe the more eyes/fewer bugs idea applies to business?
I'm not sure of the full picture; It's an idea.
Cheers.
------
danw
I'm interested in solving the contact management problem. My mac/mobile
address book isn't flexible enough and wont tell me how I know these people
but CRM is too heavy a solution.
http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=1457
------
juwo
I am looking for a partner too. However, I already have a product that is
close to beta. Looking for investors, partners, customers. See my thread.
"Have you experienced the customer-investor-team conundrum?" http://juwo.com
------
Nate
Have you taken a look at the Croquet Project?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_project
http://www.croquetconsortium.org/index.php/Main_Page
There are some videos of Alan Kay demonstrating an early version of it.
------
amichail
I really like the photosynth idea: http://labs.live.com/photosynth. But can we
take this idea further? For example, what can we do with video? Maybe we could
put together many people's videos to produce a dynamic 3d world? One could
imagine allowing people to watch and explore events in 3d such as concerts and
sports games.
Another idea is to identify dense areas in 3d where people tend to take a lot
of photographs. One could then use these dense areas to guide people to
interesting places. For example, when visiting a museum, one might look at the
dense areas first.
------
extantproject
------
Nate
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
LIMBO Game for iPhone and iPad - felipebueno
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/limbo-game/id656951157?mt=8
======
felipebueno
It says "Requirements: Compatible with iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone
5, iPod touch (3rd generation), iPod touch (4th generation), iPod touch (5th
generation) and iPad. Requires iOS 6.0 or later. This app is optimized for
iPhone 5." but it didin't work on my iPhone 4.
~~~
tonylemesmer
at the top in the description: says 4s is required.
~~~
felipebueno
Ok, but when I'm buying an app I look for the minimum requiriments where it's
supposed to be and it's like that:
"Requirements: Compatible with iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPod
touch (3rd generation), iPod touch (4th generation), iPod touch (5th
generation) and iPad. Requires iOS 6.0 or later. This app is optimized for
iPhone 5."
It's a bit misleading don't you think?
~~~
tonylemesmer
completely misleading. I would have thought this would be set in the metadata
for the app correctly. Android devices actually prevent you from purchasing
and installing on incompatible hardware (I have an Android not an iPhone, my
wife has an iPhone 4).
I was quite excited when I saw that Limbo was on iOS but disappointed with the
high minimum requirements.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Do you ever program while drinking? - badname
Does it flow better when you are slightly drunk?
======
0x420
The only time I willingly do that is when I'm browsing the Web while drunk,
and something about the page's behavior or design annoys me, so I'll casually
open up the inspector and work out a fix.
This has happened several times and I usually end up with a nice snippet of
code that's actually useful. Interestingly, I almost never do this while
sober, or stoned. There's just something about drinking that makes me more
eager to do stuff like that.
For any kind of work beyond that, though, I'm effectively useless when drunk.
------
rankam
I do it while working on side projects once in a while, but I'm usually only
effective when the task is something trivial such as adding a new basic
feature to a web app. It can be a lot of fun as I tend not to not overthink my
code and I can come up with some creative ideas. Like many others have said
when answering this question at other times, the code can be sloppy sometimes
so it's important for me to add comments and make sure that I refactor.
------
cthrowawayy
Does anyone enjoy programming while high on cannabis? I don't think I actually
accomplish that much, but I do tend to enjoy it and have solved some nasty
bugs with a fresh look. I've heard mixed feelings on the subject though.
~~~
fjabre
I do and it works great for me.
------
Pr0ducer
I have, but no noticeable productivity increase. It's usually just something
to relax as I wind down my programming for the day.
------
Joyfield
When i was young i did that sometimes at work. Worked out pretty well except
that the code was a bit hard to understand.
~~~
joshschreuder
Any repercussions? I know in a lot of places having alcohol on the breath at
work would be grounds for dismissal.
~~~
PaulHoule
I've seen a lot of places where people might have a beer around 4 PM.
~~~
joshschreuder
Yeah fair point, though at that point most of the work for the day is probably
done. I guess I just assumed OP worked a decent part of the day after drinking
for some reason.
------
krapp
Yes, and not necessarily.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Whitelines - reitanqild
http://whitelines.se/
======
reitanqild
Found the link from here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8640521](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8640521)
(Moleskin X Adobe)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
2017 State of Global Tech Salaries - tifa2up
https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017
======
Stasis5001
Every article on salaries seems to really screw up two things. One is, salary
is only a portion of total compensation. Which do they mean here? If you don't
look at equity packages, my intuition is you're going to think SF sucks, since
I think more companies there use stock incentives. I'm not sure anybody has
good data on equity packages/total comp, and at the very least, it's not
trivial even if you have that data, since for example you can't just treat an
Uber RSU the same as a Google one. So comparing total comp, which is what
matters, is a subtle issue with lots of methodological decisions to make that
will alter the results, and when articles (including the original source at
hired.com) don't even mention any of that, it's hard to take the results
seriously.
Second is, you can't just scale up salaries by the COL adjustment when the
comp is this high. If you do that, you'll think the following are equally
good:
- monthly income 10k, 3k on rent, 2k other expenses
- monthly income 5k, 1.5k on rent, 1k on other
Not all expenses scale linearly with COL, and in particular, one of the most
important imputed expenses, savings, doesn't scale that way, unless you plan
to retire with the exact same lifestyle.
~~~
bluGill
It is invalid to consider stocks, bonus, and other incentives in your
calculations. Companies take them away all the time.
You have salary, and that is it. Fringe benefits (insurance, 401k match...) is
a useful thing to get and part of the picture, but the company can change them
to your negative when they feel like it.
stocks and bonus are nice, but you dare not count on them until after you get
them. People who do otherwise find themselves broke when expected money
doesn't come in.
~~~
acchow
Actually, a company can't take away granted RSU's that are still vesting.
That's a signed agreement.
They can, however, reduce your salary at will.
~~~
bluGill
True, but there is no reason to believe that those stocks will be worth
anything when they vest.
~~~
acchow
Sure, but they can also reduce your salary at any time. So it's a bit unfair
to consider salary any "more real" than vesting RSUs.
I just mean your claim "stocks and bonus are nice, but you dare not count on
them until after you get them" is false because you can't "count on" salary
coming either.
------
kcorbitt
This analysis may be reasonable as far as it goes, but it can still make
financial sense for someone to live and work in the Bay Area. I recently took
a new job near San Francisco paying ~$160k. Living cheaply, our actual
consumption for my family of 3 is about ~50k a year. (Yes, this is possible --
and life can still be enjoyable if you like spending time in nature/other
inexpensive activities.) After taxes, that leaves me $50-60k a year to
invest/save for retirement.
Compare that with a salary of $105k in inexpensive Salt Lake City, which is
where my second-choice offer was. After taxes and consumption for a similar
lifestyle, I'd be saving somewhere around $30-40k/year, a substantial
decrease. Not to mention the fact that if the startup that made that offer
went under, it would be much harder to find another interesting job with
similar compensation in Salt Lake than San Francisco.
I don't plan on living in the Bay Area long-term, but in the early stages of
my career I can accumulate a lot more savings and also grow my skills faster
by living here than probably anywhere else in the world.
~~~
WhitneyLand
That's a tough argument to make that SF beats SLC in net savings.
You should try living with your family in a house with a backyard, it's quite
enjoyable and could be pretty cheap over time if you see any appreciation.
Secondly there are a lot more taxes on a lot more things in SF, are you
factoring that in?
Also I'd bet you are worth more than 105k in SLC if you looked around longer.
I love SF and it's great to live there for many reasons, but I don't think
"cheaper than utah" is one of them.
~~~
drstewart
>You should try living with your family in a house with a backyard, it's quite
enjoyable and could be pretty cheap over time if you see any appreciation.
You should try living in a cabin in the woods. Way cheaper plus you get fit
from chopping up firewood for the winter. Obviously only a fool would live in
a city in Utah when they could live in rural Alaska for cheaper!
~~~
DannyBee
"You should try living in a cabin in the woods."
This isn't even close to a reasonable retort.
~~~
akiselev
It is if you have a preference for urban environments and your choice is
between SF/NYC/London/etc and Salt Lake City, where it feels like every other
street is as wide as the average block in another city.
To each their own of course.
~~~
ghaff
Well, in SLC you are about an hour drive away from arguably the best skiing on
the planet.
To each their own of course.:-)
~~~
davidgay
To be fair, SF is far closer to and more practical for good skiing than London
or NYC.
And yes, living in the Bay Area, I miss (from Switzerland) skiing being an
hour's drive away. It's all relative...
------
humanrebar
The problem with straight-across cost-of-living adjustments is that they're
only relevant when you're talking about a more-or-less zero savings rate.
Assuming you can save 10% of your annual salary a year, you're better off
living in higher cost-of-living areas, assuming all other things being equal.
Then you are growing wealth (retirement funds, etc.) instead of just getting a
more expensive lease for your car or apartment.
So what you really want to measure is something closer to "savings rate" or
"disposable income" or something like that.
I'm open to thoughts on how to practically do this math. It's very relevant
when considering job offers in other cities.
~~~
sotojuan
I think the biggest problem with COL is the fact that COL is a very personal
matter.
Here in NYC, most college graduates (programmers or not) share an apartment
with flatmates. If you're a programmer, as long as at least one person in the
apartment has a non-minimum wage "office" job ($40-50k+), you can live quite
comfortably and save a lot unless you decide to live in a penthouse. An
average apartment in many areas of Brooklyn split among 2-3 employed people is
very affordable.
Even if you want to live alone it's not so bad, but my point is that before
someone can decide if NYC is too expensive for them or someone else they
should ask more than just their salary.
~~~
humanrebar
I've noticed this as well, but the flip side is that cities price out families
and people with disabilities pretty quickly.
------
w0rd-driven
As someone who's gone through hired's process last year with a close friend, I
feel this does a disservice. Primarily because COL is never 1:1 in spite of
the very best analysis available and I feel like this becomes a credible
source those in hiring positions. The train of thought goes something like
this, seemingly from anecdotal evidence from my close friend: "Oh you're
making $70K in Atlanta as a PHP developer? That's like $150K in SF!" (the SF
value was plucked out of thin air because I don't quite know the calculation).
When the reality is in Atlanta that's well below market rate for a seasoned
developer. This is also the state of their data compiled from last year but I
suspect more than most will treat it as a projection or try to run the
increase/decrease as one.
My understanding may be seriously flawed because I view salary negotiations as
nowhere close to a zero sum game it should at least attempt to aspire to be.
From the get go, everything is entirely skewed in the employer's favor and
this just feels like more ammunition.
My close friend and I shared the train of thought that if a company based in
SF has $x for developers, while they can likely get more remote developers for
the total at their COL decrease, splitting some of the difference with those
employees would go quite a long way. Employees likely wouldn't see that total
compensation range anywhere else in their current location and that difference
becomes its own motivator, at least for someone like me who has struggled to
reach market rate. It becomes a double edged sword when that offer is vastly
above market rate as finding another job in that range would be increasingly
difficult. Employees would likely be way more tempted to stay well after burn
out sets in because what should be closer to the norm becomes more of a golden
ticket.
~~~
humanrebar
> I view salary negotiations as nowhere close to a zero sum game
I think you mean "level playing field" or something. "zero sum" implies that
the employer wins when the employee loses.
But I agree with you on the above. I think the dirty little secret is that
most employers have very little clue about how much a particular skill set
(let alone a particular dev) is worth. So they tend to use previous salary as
an anchor point to make sure they're not more than 20% more crazy than the
last overpaying employer.
Cost of living adjustments is likewise a hack to help pick a number out of the
air. I really doubt employers think "hey, you can't raise a family on $130k in
downtown DC, so we'll have higher turnover when college hires reach 5-10 years
of experience".
~~~
w0rd-driven
> I think you mean "level playing field" or something. "zero sum" implies that
> the employer wins when the employee loses.
I struggled with the right way to word it in a concise manner so "level
playing field" seems more correct.
In being privy to hiring decisions for other developers, I believe your
assessment is correct. I feel like everything becomes a stab in the dark to
some degree. That my assessment of my worth and their assessment of what
they're looking for rarely match up as developers by and large seem to never
quite fit inside the job description box. I see that as a good thing but the
pattern of seemingly properly understanding your worth as you're walking out
the door becomes tiresome the third or seventh time it happens.
------
blondie9x
A lot of the cost of living calculations are wrong. I had moved from LA paying
1400$ a month rent to Austin and paid nearly the same rent in Austin for a one
bedroom. The plus is no income tax in Washington and Texas but food costs are
more and property taxes are double in Texas when compared to California.
~~~
jly
Austin city is increasingly expensive to live in. Fortunately, the city is in
the middle of land that is open on all sides for a considerable range, and
there are very affordable options just outside the city. If planned properly,
this can result in relatively easy commutes for little cost of living. The
property tax lessens considerably in neighboring cities and counties, as well.
The lack of state income tax is also a huge boon. I also disagree that food
costs are higher in Austin.
~~~
blondie9x
you could say the same about SF and LA. but how far are you willing to go?
problem is for austin these areas are included in cost living considerations.
~~~
jly
That's true. You just don't have to go as far out in Austin or adjacent
cities. Certainly housing is affordable to buy in Austin city and surrounding,
on even one modest tech salary. I don't think the same is true in SF/bay area
or LA. Austin is very expensive in a small central core, but drops off
considerably only a small number of miles away.
------
RestlessMind
SFBA is great for (at least) the following types of people:
1\. Those who are completely happy with small apartments or long commutes.
Typically coming from populous city in a developing country, SFBA traffic was
an improvement (if not for duration, then at least for discipline and stress
levels). Also, apartments are decent sized compared to what one is used to
back home. Cheap cars are still good enough compared to what you had back
home. And savings are HUGE, especially if you carry on the frugal lifestyle.
2\. Those who are frugal. Because if you can save a higher percentage of your
salary, then SFBA savings would outpace salaries in (most) other regions even
accounting for high COL
3\. Those who seek tech opportunities to make big money - eg. getting within
top 10-15% engineers in GooSoftFaceFlix, who can easily earn >400K per year
including Salary, Bonus and RSUs. If you are decently smart (no need of Turing
Award smarts), work hard and position yourself right for growth, its not
rocket science to get promoted into top 10-15% ranks within 6-8 years. Such
opportunities in tech are relatively fewer in (most) other places.
Source: been in all 3 buckets at various points in my life; observed tons of
my friends who were in similar boats.
Edit: clarified wording
------
brilliantcode
...and Vancouver, BC doesn't even show up on the radar because our average is
roughly $53,000 USD / year.
Might wanna consider outsourcing here. Same time zone as SV, similar culture,
speaks English, tight job market means loyal workers.
source: [https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/vancouver-software-
develop...](https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/vancouver-software-developer-
salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM972_KO10,28.htm)
USD/CAD as of today: 1.31
~~~
Bahamut
There are some good devs there too - maybe that is what made it an attractive
choice for companies like Facebook before.
~~~
ctrl_freak
As brilliantcode mentioned, Facebook, Microsoft et al are using Vancouver as a
visa staging ground for people outside of North America. Most Canadian
software engineers can work in the US on the TN (which doesn't have a cap like
the H-1B) so they don't have visa issues. They bring them over to Vancouver,
basically training them there, and once they've worked there for a year,
they're eligible to use the L-1 visa, because it's considered an intra-company
transfer, so they can move them into the US.
The Vancouver offices are not an investment in the Canadian tech industry;
they're just taking advantage of our more lenient immigration laws and the
convenience of the city being geographically close to San Francisco. Waterloo
and Toronto seem to be taken much more seriously as remote engineering offices
for American companies (possibly because of the universities and amount of
tech talent in the region).
It's kind of a shame though. Vancouver is a beautiful city, conveniently
located, and there's no good reason why it couldn't be Silicon Valley of the
north. If they could just figure out how to make it more economical to live
there for software engineers (i.e. cheaper housing and higher salaries), it
could quickly become a booming tech hub.
------
sputknick
I think there data on Cost of Living is outdated, specifically as it regards
Seattle, which has recently seen a significant increase in COL. According to
their calculations Seattle is cheaper than DC, however the data I can find
online suggests the opposite.
[http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/seattle-
wa/washingt...](http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/seattle-
wa/washington-dc/50000)
~~~
jstelly
They are using this data for Cost of Living according to the Hired article
this article is summarizing.
hired article: [https://hired.com/state-of-
salaries-2017](https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017)
cost of living data comes from here: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/)
~~~
sputknick
That helps explain it, thank you. It looks like the root problem is they are
using the (excl rent) number, and the recent increase in COL is Seattle has
been driven by real estate, so the problem isn't there data, it's how they are
applying it.
------
r0m4n0
I have a much different cost of living equation supporting my decision to live
in the bay.
The big expense is obviously rent, which I'm sure they have represented... The
average 1 bedroom in Austin around $1,000 and in SF let's say $3,300.
Difference of $2,300 * 12 = $27,600. After that, that other $40,000 cost of
living difference seems a bit of a stretch.
In SF, my company buys breakfast, lunch, dinner and my transportation to/from
work (like many others in this area) so I don't have to factor that into my
cost of living. The difference between cost of living adjusted salary tilts
toward the SF bay, especially with bay area equity options over what is
competitive in Austin (I have no insight into that, I think that would be an
interesting study though).
~~~
jensvdh
SF is bad but not "average $3300 for a 1BR" bad.
~~~
colbyh
it's actually worse, sitting at ~$3,500 right now:
[http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-rent-
cos...](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-rent-cost-drop-
rental-6690357.php)
------
ronnier
Lived in Tokyo and realized it wasn't worth it after some time considering the
amount of money to be made in the states. In the states, higher salary, lower
cost of living, larger homes, more room. I miss Japan, but I don't want to
work forever and living and working there just meant I was delaying the point
at which I could stop working.
------
jonathonf
London. The city with the highest cost of living in Europe [citation needed].
Look anywhere else in the UK and it's more like £25000-£35000.
~~~
ukpaythrowaway
I think that's too pessimistic. With less than 5 years experience, and having
made some less-than-optimal career decisions, I've got about £45,000 total
compensation. (Central Belt, Scotland)
~~~
GordonS
Do you work in finance perchance? Most dev salaries in Scotland are not that
good with just 5y experience, but finance sector jobs seem to generally come
with higher salaries. I have 15y experience, working in Aberdeen (which has a
much higher CoL than the central belt) and am on 55k - which is pretty much
the top end
------
donovanm
What is interesting is looking at the actual growth rate of salaries in
software engineering. For all the talk about not being able to find qualified
people, the salary growth seems stagnant.
------
misingnoglic
I wonder what India would be like - not as high wages, but the most expensive
apartments in bangalore are like $700 a month.
~~~
geodel
In first world rents are around 7-8% annually of the price of property. In
India it is just ~2% pa. I think there is already high pressure on IT salaries
in India so there would not be much upward trend there.
------
olva22
I'm wondering why the entire southeast of the US was left out of the analysis?
I'd have imagined ATL or Miami would have enough data to add to the report and
cost of living is fairly low even in comparison to many of these other cities.
~~~
w0rd-driven
I went through a round with hired.com and I'm based in Atlanta. While you can
specify that you're not willing to relocate the selection of potential
employers looking for someone here was seemingly low. It wouldn't surprise me
if there was very little to no matches for whatever reason. I feel like
Atlanta is a tech hub but some days it doesn't want to act like it. I would
think Miami is somewhat similar with Nashville coming close behind but there
aren't any concrete explanations. All I can really do is speculate from
anecdotal evidence.
~~~
echelon
Anecdotally, Atlanta has a great tech scene. I'm earning SF salary and comp,
and my cost of living is extremely cheap. The culture here feels much more
heterogenous, too.
Atlanta has a lot of fintech and medical tech companies, and it sports a
cottage startup scene at Georgia Tech and the ATDC. We've seen a number of
local startups do really well: Airwatch, MailChimp, etc.
------
tabeth
I'm legitimately interested to see how much software engineers make if they're
not White or Asian. Given the lack of women and minorities I'd say minorities
are better off being an MD than a SE. In addition, I'm skeptical that an
average SE can get offers at places that give them this kind of compensation.
\---
Take Google for an example. [1]
The earning "likelihood" (whether this is cultural, sociopolitical,
socioeconomic, etc. is irrelevant. This is just observable fact, given
Google's data) of Blacks is 1/17s of Whites and 1/5s of Asians (Google numbers
scaled for Black representation in the US).
What I am getting with this? In this model I'm describing, you either work at
Google, making $100 or you're unemployed, making 0. This means Whites and
Asians will continue to make much more as Software Engineers, because the
average wage as White or Asian person as a software engineer is higher,
_because_ of the higher rates of them _being_ software engineers to begin
with. This results in the average reported wage for software engineering being
closer to $100 (the ceiling) even though it's more like $20 if you're a woman
or minority.
Therefore, for an article like this to be useful for minorities and women, it
would have to illustrate companies that have high (where high is equal to US
demographics) rates of employment for software engineers. Otherwise, this
might as well just read: "2017 State of Global Millionaires"
[1]
\- [http://time.com/4391031/google-diversity-
statistics-2016/](http://time.com/4391031/google-diversity-statistics-2016/)
\- [https://www.google.com/diversity/](https://www.google.com/diversity/)
~~~
rattray
While I struggle generally to discern what you're trying to say, I'm
particularly befuddled by what "MD" refers to here.
~~~
tabeth
My point is basically this: the average is being extremely skewed by
survivorship bias, namely, White and Asians who attended elite schools. I
assert that getting the salaries noted in the article is especially unlikely
if you're on the other end of the spectrum: Women and minorities from non-
elite schools.
MD means medical doctor. Wages among doctors are far more predictable.
~~~
dukeluke
Nothing is keeping women and minorities out of tech, they're just choosing
different careers.
~~~
tabeth
I'd love to see your evidence for this. Namely, you'd need to prove that for a
given educational level, geographical location and familial history, they're
more likely to choose something other than tech than white males.
~~~
dukeluke
Given the fact that every college in the country enacts affirmative action,
it's apparent that non-whites and women would have no problem getting into the
IT field. And given the fact that over 60 percent of people graduating college
today are women, that tells me that it's just not a field they're interested
in. I don't see why that's a problem.
~~~
southphillyman
You don't understand why lack of diversity in an industry is a problem? A
complaint that I often hear is that SV is full of start ups focused on "Uber
for catnip" and other unimaginative useless things. Wouldn't diversity address
this alleged homogeny of services(think Bevel)?
~~~
dukeluke
I see no merit in forced diversity. If they have the opportunity and incentive
to choose this field, yet go elsewhere, that's fine by me.
~~~
tabeth
You've yet to prove that they've had "the opportunity and incentive to choose
this field, yet go elsewhere."
~~~
dukeluke
Affirmative action means women and minorities get preferential treatment
during hiring. Given the fact that women and minorities are underrepresented
in tech, it should be obvious that they would have an incentive to join the
industry because they would have very little trouble getting hired wherever
they want. And given the fact that over 60 percent of graduates are women,
it's clear that lack of opportunity isn't a factor for women at least.
~~~
tabeth
So you basically have no evidence to back up meaningless, unsubstantiated
claims. You don't even support your statement: "affirmative action means women
and minorities get preferential treatment during hiring." Guess the discussion
is over since you refuse to provide any evidence to back up your ridiculous
claims.
~~~
obstacle1
It's really easy to plug your ears and scream that an opponent's argument is
"ridiculous" (what you are doing). It's more difficult to actually make a
counterargument yourself (what you are not doing). Try harder, maybe.
------
IshKebab
It's crazy how much more you get paid in America than elsewhere. On the other
hand, I can cycle to work, get actual holidays and actually work leave work at
5pm.
~~~
arjie
You can do these in San Francisco, though I prefer keeping the mornings and
working the evenings. Wasting daytime sunshine is a terrible idea.
~~~
IshKebab
Really though? I thought you only something like get 10-15 holidays (including
sick days?), are expected to work really long hours, and I can't imagine the
rent within cycling distance of downtown San Francisco... Actually I don't
need to - it's pretty insane - easily triple London prices which are already
very high:
[https://www.zumper.com/blog/uploads/2016/03/SanFrancisco_Mon...](https://www.zumper.com/blog/uploads/2016/03/SanFrancisco_MonthlyPriceMedianMap_Winter20161.png)
~~~
arjie
I actually live in London right now so I can tell you that San Francisco can
be much cheaper. I had a one bedroom for $1400 there for the last three years.
Anywhere inside the city is cyclable. And because the weather is great you can
go do things in the daytime.
The vacation time thing is a problem for the rest of America. I had unlimited
vacation and took seven weeks off last year in San Francisco.
Everyone in SF wants to live at the NEMA. The NEMA costs like a NEMA would.
Don't live at the NEMA if you're price sensitive.
EDIT: Ah ha, I see. I lived in the Excelsior. On your map, I was right by the
border with Glen Park. 8 mins to BART, which is 12 mins to Montgomery St.. And
BART doesn't get anywhere near as packed as the Jubilee line does. You have to
see that SF is not very much larger than Zone 1 in London is.
------
40acres
As a black software engineer this is disturbing. What could be the cause of
the major discrepancies between black and white SWE salaries?
~~~
x1798DE
There could be a million things that would cause these discrepancies, like
differences in education and/or family background of the relevant populations.
It could even be something "positive" like if there's a perceived lack of
black engineers relative to the number of high-skilled black engineers that
are out there, companies may be more likely to hire marginal candidates or
retrain promising candidates from other fields (IT, security) - this would
skew the average salary down because they "padded" the distribution of black
engineers by hiring outside their normal candidate pool.
~~~
loco5niner
This line supports your point.
> When we look at our two largest markets on Hired’s platform, San Francisco
> and New York, the average African-American candidate on the Hired platform
> is 49 percent more likely to get hired than the average white person.
~~~
x1798DE
To be fair, you'd _also_ observe the exact same thing if black engineer
salaries were artificially depressed relative to their skill level, since if
you can get equivalent quality for less money, why not?
------
hereiam123
And here I am making $72,000 in New Hampshire...45 minutes from Boston. I have
a B.S. in computer engineering and now have 4-5 years of professional
experience in software (specializing in DevOps). Am I severely underpaid?
~~~
s4vi0r
These are the actual averages (not adjusted for SF cost of living):
[https://hired.com/assets/reports/state_of_salaries/img1@2x-2...](https://hired.com/assets/reports/state_of_salaries/img1@2x-2019388cdd8acc250c2dfd42b9b50dfb0476a617d511d8193e96e1fbb1bf1843.png)
IMO if you're happy where you are, and the cost of living is really low (e.g.
you can buy a decent house pretty easily for under 200k), no need to be
worried. Otherwise I'd probably leave and work in a big but not overly
expensive city. I've seen plenty of job listings in Chicago looking for people
with like 2-4 years experience paying 100k+, and the good parts of Chicago are
pretty damn nice plus it's a cheap city to live in for its size (e.g. Toronto
is always compared to Chicago, but rent is much more affordable in Chicago and
you get paid more)
EDIT: Just realized the 74k on Toronto is USD - these numbers seem pretty
weird. I know plenty of people making starting salaries in the ballpark of
$134k in SF, but you'd be hard pressed (maybe even impossible) to find
somebody in Toronto who'd pay you 97k for you first job out of school. I don't
know how SF salaries work though - maybe they start out higher, but they still
have the same glass ceiling where very, very few people are making >200k as a
developer?
~~~
emodendroket
He does not need to move anywhere to make a lot more money.
------
jorblumesea
It's really hard to compare real world adjusted incomes because each
government/country has varied outlooks on social benefits and safety nets. In
the US salaries are high, but the government doesn't give you anything in
terms of cheap educational, access to cheap healthcare etc.
I'd be curious to see if there's a way to factor in a global compensation
number that includes all factors like stock, education cost and so on.
Completely anecdotal, but my experience with Hired wasn't great. Didn't have
many good companies to choose from, the "hiring advocate" wasn't very helpful.
~~~
w0rd-driven
I didn't want to comment on this but my friend and I went through a batch and
we could pretty much say the exact same thing. I wouldn't say the advocate
wasn't terribly helpful. I blame it on the selection. Though my friend and I
had different advocates and I seemed to jump through more hoops likely because
I set my asking salary higher.
------
phkahler
Where's Detroit? We had a bit of an exodus back in 2008-2012 but finding
people today is like pulling teeth. I'm sure it's a way better financial deal
than the bay area.
~~~
vecinu
I think the recent crime/safety reputation its gotten is keeping people (like
me) away. I wouldn't move to Detroit even if they paid me $150k, I just don't
feel like the risk is worth it.
~~~
zip1234
I live in a Detroit suburb. Currently work there as well but know plenty of
people that work downtown. Easy drive to downtown but there are plenty of jobs
in very nice suburbs. The city is also nicer than you think. Still fairly
rough but improving every day.
~~~
JHof
Can confirm. I moved from downtown Detroit to Austin. Austin is great but the
core of Detroit is also pretty cool (except for the weather). A lot of the
popular restaurants/venues have sort of an 'underground' vibe, and typically
aren't as crowded as one might experience elsewhere. New, interesting
businesses and groups are constantly popping up downtown. I think of Detroit
when I see "keep Austin weird" signs, because Austin isn't weird, it's just
gentrification and rich white people. Weird is plentiful and welcome in
Detroit. Also, the city remains diverse, which doesn't seem to be the case in
Austin. But yeah, still lots of dangerous areas outside of downtown Detroit.
------
E6300
How is this "global" tech salaries, when it just shows data from five
different countries?
~~~
arjie
Everyone else is irrelevant.
------
toephu2
Hired is trying to present meaningful statistics while conveniently leaving
out the sample size? (although I understand for business reasons they don't
reveal it)
------
zump
The salary in Sydney seems to be anemic relative to a CoL that approaches SF.
For fucks sake.
------
nayuki
The article is misleading. The average software engineer salary in Toronto is
_not_ $197k CAD. It is closer to $80k, according to online sources like
[https://www.quora.com/Whats-a-reasonable-salary-for-a-
softwa...](https://www.quora.com/Whats-a-reasonable-salary-for-a-software-
engineer-in-Toronto) .
~~~
vmarsy
Read the map title, the real salary according to their source is $74K (CAD$
97K).
The adjustment for Cost of Living in SF is discussed in this thread, it might
not be accurate.
------
ValleyOfTheMtns
I'm unfairly critical of reports like these once I realise many y-axes don't
start at zero in their charts.
~~~
imtringued
What's the purpose of such a chart? Why not simply display a sorted table if
they can't be bothered to take advantage of the visualisation?
------
nojvek
Seattle average is 180k and Austin is 198k. That's insane. What companies are
offering this crazy salaries?
~~~
dingdongding
That is salary adjusted for cost of living.
------
encoderer
There are so many large tech companies in the Bay Area that all include stock-
based compensation as a meaningful portion of your salary.
Everybody on HN fixates on startup employment in the bay area. Sure, there are
plenty of "starving" engineers here working for $90k at a startup. But that's
a choice. Every large tech company you can think of, and many you can't, have
been hiring here non-stop for years. Within a 2 blocks of where I write this
is Yelp, Salesforce and Zillow/Trulia. These are not even the large tech
companies.
This place is not meant for everybody, but it really has not been hard to get
ahead here if you're an engineer aiming to make money.
------
Demoneeri
State of Global Tech Salaries Canada = Toronto
------
xexers
We're getting screwed here in Canada.
~~~
antoniuschan99
How are we getting screwed? (and I agree that the salaries are pretty low
compared to the other cities).
Also, the dollar being low doesn't help.
~~~
xexers
For the exact reason you said... our salaries are way lower. I should move to
the states (although I wont because immigrants don't seem to be welcome there
now).
------
longerthoughts
Would like to see distributions of desired experience levels for jobs in each
city. Unless they're fairly consistent, these numbers will all be skewed by
the relative seniority of available roles. I'm not convinced they'd be vastly
different but could imagine differences. For example, greater numbers of entry
level positions in areas with higher concentrations of industry giants who can
effectively train swarms of new grads.
------
mattbettinson
Interesting, I thought Toronto would be much lower. Does anyone have any data
on cost of living expenses compared to other major US cities?
\- A Canadian who wants to go to the states but probably won't for the time
being due to political/family/friends factors.
~~~
vecinu
Here's a comparison between SF and TO: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+States&city1=Toronto&city2=San+Francisco%2C+CA&tracking=getDispatchComparison)
------
brwnll
Is there any sense of how corporate benefits effect the real cost of living?
Meaning, companies which offer free food, transportation, even limited
housing, the net effect of cost of living increases could be somewhat offset?
~~~
troels
Housing would make a difference in high cost-of-living areas, such as SF, but
the others are probably rounding errors with what is, after all, fairly high
salaries.
------
acchow
I bet the percentage (and the distribution) of engineers using something like
hired.com to find a job is way lower in the hyper-fast-paced Bay Area than
anywhere else.
------
totalperspectiv
Out of curiosity, where does biotech, or specifically bioinformatics fall on a
scale like this?
------
rihegher
It would be interesting to compare this with fully remote position salaries
------
walshemj
84k in London dam I am underpaid
~~~
Calcite
The average salary is 73k£. 84k£ is adjusted to the cost of living in SF.
~~~
j4_james
Actually I think it's only 56K in pounds - 73K is the dollar value. It's
confusing because the order of those values is swapped between the two maps.
On the first map they have $73K (£56K), i.e. the dollar value is first. On the
second map (adjusted for cost of living) they have £84K ($104K), i.e. the
pound value is first.
------
corobo
Hah, I'm actually somewhat disappointed. I read "making" as "creating" \- as
in what people are making app-wise around the world right now.
Free idea if anyone fancies it (I wish I had the time!) - a live update map
that sources geo-tagged tweets with a specific hashtag (#ShowHN?)
~~~
clarkmoody
Would be more clear with "earning" instead of "making," wouldn't it?
~~~
corobo
Aye, I'd have likely not clicked had it been "earning". Love to see what
people are creating, not really fussed about what they're earning
------
fbernier
What the fuck @ the section "North America", and then right under all there is
is a map of the US...
~~~
davidw
You must have missed this morning's Executive Order from the White House...
------
jlarocco
It's utterly stupid that the link goes to TechCrunch instead of the actual
study itself: [https://hired.com/state-of-
salaries-2017](https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017)
The hired.com page gives a lot more information, including baseline numbers
before cost of living adjustments, and doesn't have such a click bait title.
~~~
dang
> _utterly stupid_
We appreciate your concern for the quality of HN (and frustration at linkbait
etc.) but please don't do this here. The HN guidelines do say to post original
sources, but also say not to call names in comments
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)).
Users submit articles from various sources of varying quality. Moderators
routinely change urls to better sources when we find them, and edit titles
accordingly. No one would love it better than we if users would just follow
the site guidelines and we didn't need to do those things, but to try to make
it otherwise would be like Canute commanding the waves.
We changed the URL from [https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/09/what-software-
engineers-ar...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/09/what-software-engineers-
are-making-around-the-world-right-now/) to the original report it's cribbed
from.
------
pinnbert
Money is a systematic lack of empathy.
~~~
xatan_dank
Feel free to develop a flawless system to allocate resources among billions of
organisms and implement it. I welcome your efforts.
------
EGreg
Austin and Seattle _average_ salaries of $190K for developers?
And yet SF and NYC are still stuck around $130K, which is only 20% higher than
what it was 10 years ago, and these cities are far more expensive to live in?
What's the draw, why don't more developers move to Austin or Seattle?
~~~
nkassis
This isn't the raw numbers. It's based on cost of living adjustment to give
what the equivalent would be in SF (at least that's what I understood from the
article).
It would have been useful to show the raw numbers next to the adjusted numbers
in the image.
~~~
arielweisberg
Yeah it makes it hard to compare how you personally are doing.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Credibility - revisit both side stories on #PyconIncident - alvinsj
http://www.credibility.cc/topic/8
======
alvinsj
a recent side project i made, question about credibility of articles/posts.
let the users see stories from the both sides, better understand what's going
on, and why credibility is important. two people got fired, which is sad, and
undesirable.
~~~
alvinsj
please let me know if there is any feedback to this site, because i have yet
to find out whether the web app represents itself on the idea.
look at the following explanation on why I created this. my comment here:
<http://forrst.com/posts/Credibility_cc-FO9> my post here:
<http://tmblr.co/ZmxrYtgcYnfL>
~~~
alvinsj
I removed email field in the signup page, seems like it's redundant.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Google+ shuts down soon; Is the giant finally stumbling? - hgsyndrome
https://medium.com/@lancengym/google-does-minus-not-plus-33a90ff11a7b
======
ggm
Methinks doth protest too much. Simply quoting Caldwell doesn't make it
profound. O365 is not replacing Google docs or sheets. Adding markdown to
google docs would be a boost but it's alive and well.
Inbox failed but Gmail is not failed and hosted by Google with Postini is not
failed.
Shuttering Picasa was bizarre. Google photos continues.
Shuttering play music for YouTube? Yet to be seen how stupid that is. But it
certainly smells stupid.
But stupid is a couple of bob short of dead. Dead looks more like yahoo.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How the Web Became Unreadable (2016) - PretzelFisch
https://www.wired.com/2016/10/how-the-web-became-unreadable/
======
kick
Most web browsers allow you to override everything he's complaining about.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Are Europeans Really Not Using Twitter? - nickoakland
http://thenextweb.com/twitter/2011/11/24/arabic-is-the-fastest-growing-language-on-twitter-sees-2000-increase-in-12-months/
======
felipemnoa
>>Despite the fact that Arabic accounts for only 1.2% of all public tweets,
the growth rate over the past year has been a staggering rate of 2,146%
It makes sense that if the usage is very low almost to the point of nil than
any growth is going to seem "staggering". i.e. If you go from 1 person using
it to 2 people using it then you've just grown 100%!!!
------
dlf
Unless I'm missing something, this article only discusses tweets by language,
not geography. Many Europeans use English on social media sites given the
cosmopolitan nature of Europe and the likelihood that, if there is one
language they have in common with friends from other countries in Europe and
abroad, it is English.
I'm guessing there's a few lesser spoken European languages in that "all
others" category.
~~~
nakkiel
Yes and no. No: in France at least, very few people use it. Yes: those who do
use it in France, use it to talk people internationally (ie. in English).
~~~
harbud
So what do the French use for talking to fellow Frenchmen? (Like QQ for
Chinese).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Much Money I Made From Side Projects In 2010 - mattcurry
http://pseudocoder.com/archives/how-much-money-i-made-from-side-projects-in-2010
======
lylejohnson
This is very inspiring! Matt, for your next post(s), in addition to the
monetary costs I'd like to hear about how much time you put into maintaining
and supporting these projects. I can imagine that with a couple of thousand
users you could easily spend a lot of time answering support emails.
~~~
patio11
You'd be surprised how easy it is to support web applications, if you work on
killing the issues which continue to cause support requests. (BCC had
something like 75k trials in 2010. My support load is typically well under an
hour a week.)
Maintenance in terms of "Making sure stuff doesn't break" also doesn't have to
take a lot of time. January was a _bad_ month for me, and that only took about
one hour of firefighting and one hour of (hopefully) preventing the next
firefighting.
~~~
rsobers
Wow, that's shockingly low! I'd have guessed at least a few hours a week in
answering customer emails.
------
patio11
Hat's off, that was some fantastic growth last year. If you're ever in the
mood for chitchatting, I also sell to your market and know a few things about
a few things.
~~~
mattcurry
That would be great.
I actually emailed you in the beginning of '09 after reading about your site
in Bob Walsh's MicroISV book. You took the time to send a lengthy and detailed
response which was very appreciated.
~~~
patio11
Heh, I saw that when I searched right after posting the above comment. My
thought was "Oh goodness, there is totally egg on my face if he has already
emailed me and it slipped through the cracks."
------
muhfuhkuh
Is that market averse to monthly subscriptions? Charging $5/mo. Could triple
your revenue and turn a side biz into the main stage. And 5 bucks is a latte a
month.
I recall patio11 speaking about marketing to the educational market but not
sur if he covered recurring subscription revenue vs. Flat annual rate or not.
------
damoncali
Nitpick - I think you mean "revenue" not "earnings". Nice article though -
very inspiring.
~~~
mattcurry
You're right. I fixed it.
~~~
websockr
Thank You
------
johnohara
Nice article Matt.
I taught high school CS for ten years and can tell you from personal
experience that you are scratching at the surface of a very promising market.
Most schools hand out the traditional lesson plan books at the beginning of
the year during faculty meetings and in-services. They are a pita to fill out
and maintain and frequently change year to year if you are worth your salt
However, I believe your sales would increase dramatically were you to target
administrators and department chairs instead of individual teachers. $20 per
instructor is well within their annual budget and they are very open to ideas
that make day-to-day operations smoother.
Making it possible for parents to view the lesson plans would enable you to
engage entire districts without much difficulty.
Well done.
~~~
mattcurry
Any tips on the best way to approach admins or department chairs?
~~~
johnohara
Start local. Work with a couple of elementary schools and a couple of high
schools. Ask them to beta the product in exchange for feedback. Help them load
it on their server and start with a small group.
And then make it work for them. You have a good product.
Most schools have a curriculum director (or someone in that capacity) in
charge of coordinating classes, adding and dropping courses, etc. They usually
interact with everyone from admins to teachers.
Principals are the decision makers but asst principals do a lot of the
implementation.
You'll be able to cold call with no problem. And now's a good time of the year
to lay the ground work for 2011-2012.
Here's the key: be functional and very useful. Schools are up to their
eyeballs with the latest wiz-bang gadgets.
Your product may qualify under some kind of Federal Grant. Many schools have
part/full time people whose job it is to manage grant applications. They'd be
able to help you as well.
~~~
mattcurry
Thanks, great advice.
------
mcantor
Hey Matt, out of curiosity, why do you want to avoid this blog post showing up
in Google searches?
Thanks for these posts, by the way--I find them patently inspiring. It's nice
to know I'm not the only developer with a million ridiculous project ideas.
Keep up the good work!
~~~
mattcurry
I've been going after some big schools and entire districts lately, so I worry
that they'll be less enthused if they knew I was just one guy doing this on
the side.
~~~
ligerhearted
Would love to hear about how you market to school districts/large school
units.
I built a product (back in 2008) that was aimed at the education sector for
students and teachers to use to study in groups, but alas it never got much
traction with large groups like I intended. But it was heavily popular with
international users from (mainly) Europe.
I had pretty much 0 luck marketing to school districts or schools, just a few
classrooms.
It seems the school district market is a hard nut to crack that I've been
wondering how one can angle on..
~~~
mattcurry
Going forward I'm also listed in the Google Apps Marketplace in the EDU
section
([http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?pro...](http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?productListingId=6528+15556554624571304041)),
which has gotten me a few inquiries.
~~~
ligerhearted
Awesome, so good SEO and a platform where people are _looking_ for this type
of thing.
Thanks a ton for the tips Matt!
------
mdoerneman
Thanks for the inspiration. I needed it.
------
getsat
FYI: Matt, your "redacted" links on the 2008 and 2009 versions of this article
still link to the site in question. The Twitter link on the 2009 article
actually links to the Twitter account in question, too.
------
guynamedloren
Very, very inspiring. I love posts like this (as we all do) because it's a
good way to benchmark my own projects and gives me hope for future projects.
When I finally round the numbers up (hopefully later this week) I'm going to
make a post detailing the financials of my little 4-hour profitable project
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2176771>)
------
crocowhile
As I see it, both your renewal rate and the number of free users are high
enough to launch a promotion (e.g.: $10 instead of $20 for the first
12months).
------
rmc
If you haven't already, I recommend you read what patio11 says here (and on
their blog), they are in a very similar market with similar customers.
------
tomthorns
Great post. Do you have some sort of referral scheme whereby current users can
recommend the product to their coworkers and get a discount if someone signs
up? I think that could help you grow it if not, your existing users spend all
day alongside your target users - give them a reason to talk about it!
~~~
mattcurry
I did a few years ago, but it went poorly. Might have just been my
implementation. Either way I removed it.
------
fady
nice post. really. I bet if the UI of the sites were refreshed for something
more intuitive, easier on the eyes, and a better layout (rsstalker) - i bet
you would see an increase in signups.
<http://planbookedu.com/> \- seems to have a better design than the others.
The UI of a site really is important to me, and how I perceive the company or
outfit, not sure if that is a good thing, but its important. You will attract
the more web-savy peeps - IMO
~~~
rmc
This service might not be targeted at web savy folks
~~~
fady
you know, I thought of that, as I work for a company that targets the "IE"
crowd, but regardless, I think good UI goes a long way, regardless of your
target audience.
------
prpon
Matt, What caused the signups and new orders to go up compared to an year ago?
Other than AdWords, are there any strategies that worked well for you?
~~~
mattcurry
Most of the traffic still comes from Google search, so I'd say a combination
of user interest in this type of thing and being near the top for most of
searches.
As far as features I added sharing which allows teachers to generate links
that they can send to other teachers and embedding which allows teachers to
put their planbook right in their website.
Nothing revolutionary, but both helped w/ SEO and increased visibility with
target customers.
------
toadi
So you have spent 100k in adwords and over the years you haven't earned that
amount back?
Or did I mis something?
~~~
scottbessler
Pretty sure they are presenting a hypothetical situation where the revenues
mentioned are worthless, implying that revenues are not the whole picture.
~~~
mattcurry
Yes, exactly.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Front End Dev Interview Questions - emilepetrone
I have an interview next week, and have found a ton of questions through generic, interview-question searches. However I figure HN knows better...
======
meterplech
Can you specify a little further? Are you interviewing for a job, or
interviewing a candidate for a job? What level position is this
junior/senior/VP Eng? I will assume interviewing and likely for a junior
position...
If you are interviewing for a junior level position, I would mostly be
prepared to describe applications you have created, included side projects.
You will likely be given some application and work with the interviewer to
design/implement it. Usually you can and should ask them questions and make it
as much of a dialogue as possible. Many companies will expect you to actually
write code in an interview, so be prepared for that. Usually this is in the
language of your choice, but I would at least be prepared to do things in
javascript as this is a front end position, and every front end person should
understand javascript.
I don't really know for more senior roles, but I would imagine you'd be asked
more "big picture" questions like what are the advantages/disadvantages to
various web frameworks, why you would use one over another in various example
applications. Also, perhaps how you would work to architect/possibly design
some front end application.
Also, obviously know your resume- make sure that any
languages/skills/frameworks on there you actually know and be prepared to talk
about all your experience on there.
------
bottlerocket
Hiya, fellow front-ender here. I'm guessing you're going for a junior
position? Agency or in-house?
I've found that if the person interviewing you knows what they're talking
about, you'll spend most of the interview discussing you're overall
philosophy, future goals, and how you'll fit in with the company because
they've already reviewed you code and determined you have the skills they need
(that's why they brought you in).
If they're not sure on what exactly it is you do, prepared to discuss hows &
whys of things you've done, and brush up on your buzzwords and industry lingo.
Overall, prepare to discuss your process (how you approach, plan and execute a
project).
How do you handle a very aggressive deadline? Do you push for a more realistic
timeframe or cut corners to get it out the door and go back and fix it (no
right answer here, btw :)).
Are you comfortable working with someone else's code/framework? When should
you write your own javascript, and when should you use a framework? Why JQuery
instead of Prototype (or vice versa)?
Be able to defend your decisions (without getting defensive,that's a big red
flag) and articulate your position. Don't wear a suit (unless it's a law firm
or somewhere where everyone wears suits). Bring a few copies of your resume.
Above all, relax. If you got in the door, chances are it's your job to lose :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Police Riot - ashtonkem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot
======
dang
Ok, between this one and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23395852](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23395852),
wikipedia submissions to HN have jumped the shark and we need to go back to
penalizing them on HN. Generic repetition of the hottest topics is the
opposite of what makes a good HN submission.
Other recent posts about Wikipedia on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23249978](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23249978)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23117614)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23239405](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23239405)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23089041)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23274898](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23274898)
~~~
ChrisGranger
I often click through to read posted Wikipedia articles, but I really wish the
OP would also comment _why_ they're posting a particular article and what
their thoughts are on the subject. Basically, what makes this interesting?
~~~
ashtonkem
I believe what we’re seeing in some cities constitutes a police riot, with
cops instigating or creating violent clashes out of peaceful protests.
~~~
dang
I think that's perfectly good logic. It's just that the general theme has
already had major discussion on HN, including on the front page when you
posted this. The distinction between "police brutality" and "police riot" is
without a difference; the internet does not do subtlety.
------
rz2k
The 1992 police riot in New York associated with resistance to community
review boards and Giuliani's mayoral ambitions[1] should probably be on that
list.
[1] [https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/rudys-racist-
ra...](https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/rudys-racist-rants-nypd-
history-lesson)
------
jameoblameo
The issue is, when its the police who determine whether someone is acting
correctly, it's trivial for them to do this, as they can just rule that they
were right and the protesters were wrong. The video from the Seattle protest
yesterday was a great example of this. Fuck the police.
~~~
jsf01
What video is that? What took place?
~~~
wdbbdw
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the_moment_it_all_happened/)
~~~
readhn
Thanks for sharing! This is insane.
------
bluedays
The psychology for police brutality lately seems to be pretty simple.
1.) Accuse someone of acting inappropriately, and use "corrective force". If
that action is real or not, is irrelevant.
2.) Should your victim react negatively then accuse the victim of resisting.
Once the accusation is made, more than likely everyone begins to believe this
narrative as the truth.
3.) Once the victim and other bystanders begin to react negatively treat them
as hostile targets. These hostile civilians are now rioters.
4.) You have justification to violently shut down the riot. Now that
protestors are acting with hostility they are no longer peacefully protesting.
They are now rioting.
5.) Ruthlessly use force to ensure that all rioters are apprehended and shut
down without question.
6.) Congratulate yourselves for shutting down a riot.
------
readhn
June Fourth Incident :
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests)
Date: April 15 – June 4, 1989 (1 month, 2 weeks and 6 days) Location: 400
cities nationwide
~~~
jedieaston
Link redirects to:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests)
> Please submit the canonical URL. Avoid link shorteners.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
~~~
aspenmayer
Supplying an alternate link to circumvent a paywall or network routing issue
is well within the rules of HN. You’re being pedantic. Who was harmed by the
URL specifically? It was clearly and unambiguously labeled.
------
gotoeleven
We're not the rioters you're the rioters!
------
readme
It's certainly true that police instigate some of these riots, but how do you
explain arson?
Without listing the numerous acts of arson that have occurred, I think we
could agree that it's farfetched to say that police have instigated those acts
of arson. Even if they did, it would still not be correct to exact the revenge
against the completely uninvolved property owners.
There are bad police and there are bad protestors, good and evil are not
evenly distributed across the two opposing sides. You might say the bad guys
aren't really protestors, they're rioters. I'd also say that the bad cops
aren't really cops, they're criminals.
Please maintain an unbiased and neutral attitude when you think about the
police. Not all of them are bad. It's really unfortunate that enough of them
are that things like this happen.
With that said the escalation of this conflict is almost 100% the fault of
Trump.
~~~
gotoeleven
Wait was the escalation when rioters started looting and burning stuff? or was
it when they shot cops and bystanders? or maybe it was when they started
having pallets of bricks deployed to protest areas? Nah, it was when trump
sent in the national guard that governors requested.
~~~
readme
Trump sending in the national guard was not what escalated this. What
escalated this was his usual politicizing of every event. By popping off on
twitter with his now famous "when you start looting, we start shooting" tweet.
The national guard could have been sent in without Trump, the governor of each
state is in charge of the national guard of that state.
Trump is just trying to take credit for what governors could and would have
done unilaterally.
(Oh hey, remember coronavirus? Same thing. Everything that happened was up to
governors, his contribution was a net negative. Well, maybe not everything.
There is what Mike Pence did, remember, he was "in charge" of everything!)
~~~
readme
Much like he's trying to politicize the response by putting GEN Milley "in
charge"
The Pentagon's official response was (paraphrasing) "GEN Milley's
responsibilities have not changed; he will continue to advise the Sec Def and
President"
EDIT:
I should also add, that he tricked GEN Milley into walking into a photo op in
front of St. John's church.
The military tries very hard to remain apolitical, and he duped the man into
being part of a prop piece.
~~~
ashtonkem
Miley’s excuse doesn’t hold water. Is he in the habit of wearing BDUs every
single day? He commands no troops, a suit or dress uniform is what he would
wear at his job. Why change into BDUs if not for a photo op?
I think he’s using a flimsy excuse to walk it back once he got serious public
and private blowback over what he was doing.
~~~
readme
Everyone in the Army wears that uniform every single day, even to work in an
office. That is what he wears to work daily.
Also as the chief of staff he is actually in command of the entire Army.
It's kind of stupid, until you consider that the alternative is wearing a much
more annoying dress uniform.
100% he was tricked into it, there's enough out there in the news to figure it
out.
The deputy sec def just resigned because Mark Esper wouldn't push back. BTW
remember what happened to the last Sec Def, Mattis? Resigned because Trump
wouldn't listen to him.
If you haven't noticed yet, Trump surrounds himself with yes men. If they
don't go along with it, they are fired.
~~~
ashtonkem
Staff officers do not wear BDUs every day. He has an office job, not a combat
role. Look at any non-emergency meeting of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; you’ll
see a lot of dress uniforms, not a lot of BDUs
As the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff he is prohibited _by law_ from
exercising any authority over troops. His only responsibility is advising the
president, and working with the Secretary of Defense, who does actually
command troops.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Goldman’s Blankfein on Skipping School Work, Wishing to Be Chinese - jimsojim
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2015/06/10/goldmans-blankfein-on-skipping-school-work-wishing-to-be-chinese/
======
danielrpa
It's sad to see how much of society's time and resources goes towards
investment banking and the mindset that comes from it...
~~~
melling
Could you elaborate? Are you talking about the number of people? I feel like
some other low-tech jobs, like truck driving or cleaning people, are more
wasteful. Say, for example, that the 3.5 million truck drivers become
automated out of a job then they work in finance, technology, etc., wouldn't
society be better off?
Consider, for instance, that a company like Renaissance Technologies has over
100 PhD's in physics and math.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies)
~~~
notNow
_Say, for example, that the 3.5 million truck drivers become automated out of
a job then they work in finance, technology, etc., wouldn 't society be better
off?_
Is this even attainable? Is a high-tech driven economy even a mass employer?
The primary (agrarian), secondary(industrial), ternary (services) sectors and
economies served well the humanity over the past centuries esp accommodating
and absorbing the exponential growth in population during the 20th century and
onward but will the nascent knowledge based (quaternary) economy be able to
keep it going or more than 6 bln humans have to suffer greatly to earn just to
survive and have a sustenance level of income?
I have my deep doubts about this prospect and I believe that at least that
having a knowledge based economy doesn't need all this amount of people on
Earth to advance and that the transition from a consumerist led mass market to
a non consumerist small one is going to be very painful if we haven't
addressed the structural problems in the global economy esp. income inequality
and wealth hoarding by the 1%.
------
MathsOX
I'm at Goldman this summer and come from a pure mathematics background (in an
area that's not very quant-focused, by choice). The first part of the article
is unequivocally true. Most in my area are incredibly interesting, diverse
individuals with non-finance backgrounds.
I think it's somewhat fitting that these comments are made at the best
university in China, however. It's emblematic of one of Goldman's recruiting
challenges: those who have done interesting things prior to college, often
continuing through college, may be less likely to get into top schools and if
you aren't from a top college it's demonstrably harder to get your foot in the
door with these summer internships.
~~~
__Joker
This is one of the recruiting challenges to solve and companies have not that
much of a incentive to alter it. As most of us agree, colleges has simply
become filters and kind of a costly filter from the students perceptive for
most of the cases.
------
melling
This graph is a couple years old but it shows China's incredible economic
growth.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China#/media/File...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China#/media/File:Graph_of_Major_Developing_Economies_by_Real_GDP_per_capita_at_PPP_1990-2013.png)
By one measure (PPP) China has already passed the U.S.
[http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483762](http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483762)
~~~
adventured
The PPP reference is about as worthless of a concept as you could get in
measuring economic scale.
If I make $80,000 and my cup of coffee costs $4, and the person in China makes
$4,000 but their equivalent cup of coffee costs $0.10 - they'd have you
believe that person has a meaningful purchasing power advantage.
Right up until that person earning $4,000 tries to buy a BMW, take a vacation
to Paris, or save more than $400 per year.
The last five years of China's growth has been entirely fake. Their return on
invested capital has plunged, and it now takes an extreme amount of debt to
generate each dollar of GDP growth. Their economy stopped growing normally
with the end of the global consumer boom in 2009. They've spent the years
since accumulating one of the greatest piles of debt in world history. Within
two to three years, they'll be the most indebted nation, with their total debt
to GDP ratio already exceeding that of the US.
It now takes $4 to $5 trillion in new debt per year, just to stay near their
6%-7% GDP growth target. Put another way, they have to take on $7+ of new debt
for every $1 of GDP growth.
Their PMI, electricity usage, imports, exports, and real estate market are all
signaling imminent disaster. Up next their record-shattering stock market
bubble is going to go bust, causing trillions of dollars in damage.
The next 20 years are going to be extraordinarily painful for China. They're
making the same mistakes Japan did, except they're doing it at warp speed, and
with a billion very poor people to deal with.
~~~
ucaetano
If you make 80k and your "average life package" costs 40k/year, and a Chinese
makes 4k but the same package costs 1k/year, we'd all say that the Chinese is
way better off than you. PPP is not the "cup of coffee index", nor the Big Mac
Index.
Currency exchanges are meaningless when you're talking about quality of life
and purchasing power, and PPP is meaningless when you're talking about total
production.
On the other hand, you did the remarkable feat of using an example of when PPP
is being used CORRECTLY (comparing purchasing power and quality of life per
person) to argue against using it.
[Edit] Besides the PPP issue, I agree with the rest of your post, China is
desperately looking for a way out of the demographic and political trap it dug
itself into.
~~~
TimPC
I'll disagree strongly here if the $80K and $4K are after tax. $40K in savings
with an average life is highly preferable to $3K in savings with an average
life. Yes there are smaller impacts to immediate choices, but I'd bet on the
$40K to have a higher impact in the future. PPP is very sensitive to things
like rapid economic growth, changes in immigration, changes in popularity of
location, etc. You could very quickly find $3k/year of savings obliterated if
that $1K goes to $4K. It's a lot harder for a $40K cost of living to go to
$60K or $80K.
~~~
ucaetano
Make the 80k and 4k after tax :)
"$40K in savings with an average life is highly preferable to $3K in savings
with an average life."
Your comparison is meaningless, unless they are in the same country with the
same cost of living.
"You could very quickly find $3k/year of savings obliterated if that $1K goes
to $4K. It's a lot harder for a $40K cost of living to go to $60K or $80K."
Again, meaningless, unless they are in the same country with the same cost of
living.
That's what PPP is for.
------
anti-shill
I wanna be black
~~~
shiggerino
Lucky for you and Mr. Blankfein, being “transracial” is now a thing:
[http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/12/us/rachel-dolezal-
social-m...](http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/12/us/rachel-dolezal-social-
media/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Show HN: Codelapse.com - itroot
https://codelapse.com
======
itroot
Hey, HN!
I think that visualizing interview algorithms in that way can help lot of
people to understand them, to form a "gut feeling" what's going on. What do
you think?
This particular example, linked list reversal, is a "medium" interview
question, but I've seen many times people failing it. When I solve this
question by myself I always imagine this pointers, how they act and so on, and
this visualization - it's what's going in my head. I really think that putting
it on the list and animating it helps people to form long-term understanding.
What do you think?
~~~
ncr100
Yes I agree visualization aids are helpful, and under-utilized by the
educational world. (Same thing goes for math, basic and complex.)
Specifically, for programming:
0) Memory layout or even a Variable's storage, to me, is most useful. It shows
intermediate state, and can teach programmers what they can expect to see when
their program is running. Most of the time, practically speaking, we don't
look at final results ... we look at this intermediate state.
1) Next is historical variable storage. Yes Codelapse seems to have a time-
slider. It is also helpful to have a X'd out list of prior values, to help
teach programmers to see patterns, showing the historical values they should
expect to see over time stored in a variable.
2) Keeping track of the line of code where the program counter is pointing at,
is next on my prioritized list of elements to visualize.
I recommend making the time-travel feature, in the center, more "button like",
for discoverability's sake.
The >_> faces are cool. Imaginative! Keep inventing these thoughtful
illustrations!
~~~
itroot
Thanks for the feedback, espacially for #2.
I really like to see visualisation with feedback loop ( ability to change
source code and commit a-la wikipedia) in educational process. For example,
consider
[https://www.geogebra.org/m/ZFTGX57r](https://www.geogebra.org/m/ZFTGX57r) ,
it's look beautiful.
~~~
ncr100
Wow that is mesmerizing.
Kudos to you for making such a plainly generally valuable and worthwhile piece
of technology, itroot.
~~~
itroot
geogebra is just an aspiring example, I do not have any encounter there. So,
kudos to geogebra founders =)))
------
algodaily
Very cool! This is a feature I've partially added to AlgoDaily[1], but your
implementation is a much more clean and intuitive IMO.
I assume this works the same as pythontutor.com by executing a code snippet
through a debugger and playing back the execution trace. Is each code snippet
custom created, or do you have a tool that generates these visuals?
[1] [https://algodaily.com/challenges/reverse-a-linked-
list](https://algodaily.com/challenges/reverse-a-linked-list)
~~~
itroot
Hey, thanks for comment! You are right, it uses debugger output.
This is opinionated custom visualization, and I do not have some generic tool
here. I think it is possible to do it, but it will be
* generic, like pythontutor - it misses "meaning" of what's happening, just showing the facts without emphasis
* specific cases for popular data structures (I thinking about that way)
* hand-made every time (like a Disney in old good times) - hard work =)
I'm just scratched my own itch, and learned vue.js + vuex + a bit of modern
frontend during this project.
| {
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On the phenomenon of bullshit jobs - FuNe
http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
======
CarolineW
The sheer volume of previous submissions of this item tells us that it has
value - it wouldn't be submitted so often if it wasn't of interest.
You might be interested in previous discussions:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8561080](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8561080)
(381 comments)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6236478](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6236478)
(349 comments)
There is a comment or two scattered among some of the other submissions:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560420](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560420)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11016695](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11016695)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9999935](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9999935)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723368](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723368)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9602893](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9602893)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9250058](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9250058)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9117291](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9117291)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8944612](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8944612)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8205697](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8205697)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6766926](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6766926)
| {
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Samsung takes smartphone crown in Q3 as shipments top Apple, Nokia - gadgetsrule
http://www.bgr.com/2011/10/20/samsung-takes-smartphone-crown-in-q3-as-shipments-top-apple-nokia/
======
strandev
The smartphone crown of shipments? What's that worth?
| {
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Ask HN: Staying in SF during TechCrunch, any advice? - EGreg
Hey guys.<p>I'm the Founder+CEO of Qbix, Inc. We're based in NYC and this is the first time I'll be going to check out TechCrunch in San Francisco!<p>I was wondering if there way anyone here who could hook me up with some accommodations while I'm there. Either a hacker dorm, or maybe a room or something like that. Would be much more interesting to stay with fellow entrepreneurs and hackers than in a hotel room.<p>Let me know. You can find my contact information at http://qbix.com/about<p>Thanks in advance!<p>Greg Magarshak<p>PS: I realize it says I'm a president and yet I'm looking for a place to stay. I will look back on this later and probably think it looks quaint and cute. Still I like this!
======
connor
There's a startup campus in SOMA. Bunk-bed dorm style, mostly devs +
startupers, $35/night if they still have space (I think they're almost filled
with the Disrupt coming up). I've heard good things, message me and I'll put
you in touch with the organizer.
~~~
EGreg
I would love to. Can you email me? My email is on <http://qbix.com/contact>
I dont know how to message you otherwise.
------
apsurd
I have plenty of room in my new apartment and you a free to stay here, but I
live in Berkeley. If you don't mind the hour commute hit me up! Email is in
profile.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Automated to Death? - pieceofpeace
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/automated-to-death?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IeeeSpectrum+%28IEEE+Spectrum%29
======
Dav3xor
I work on avionics. It's a great job, except you have no idea when or how
things can go drastically wrong. We had a bug in our weather data parser that
didn't surface in 2 years of constant testing. The weather receiver is only
supposed to give data for the continental United States, but we occasionally
would get a Temporary Flight Restriction for Iraq, which worked fine.
One day, we got a report from a customer that his panels rebooted twice, in
the clouds. All signs were pointing to the weather receiver. I feverishly
looked through the code and eventually found the problem.
We were getting a TFR for an air show.. in Guam. I knew that we handled the
eastern hemisphere properly, the Iraqi TFR's worked fine.. The data looked
something like "....151.235E10.1235N...".. We eventually determined that the
floating point value parser was treating the E as scientific notation and
blowing up. It worked fine on my PC (glibc), but not on the device (newlib).
~~~
jodrellblank
So what happened? In "2 years of constant testing", you ... didn't test it on
the device? Didn't try codes outside the area it was supposed to work in? Is
there a weather data standard and you didn't meet it, or is there one but it's
not always followed, or is there none and you have to do as well as you can?
~~~
Dav3xor
A little bit of all those things -- it worked just fine, on the device, for 2
years, including the occasional eastern hemisphere TFR. It only happened with
a TFR that was close to the international date line which made the ascii ->
float conversion run off the end of the string. I admit I didn't test that
eventuality -- but I was using a C library function that's been in constant
use for over 30 years.
There's no real weather data standard, XM Weather is a collection of formats
(nexrad radar comes over as a bitmap, weather reports are METAR encoded).
The Temporary Flight Restrictions are in XML, well, not really XML, it's a
really nasty format designed by Jeppesen were you basically have to write your
own XML parser because they made it impossible to parse with a standard XML
parser.
It just goes to show that even when you test the hell out of something, you
can still get blind sided by something you never thought of, but once it
happens, it seems really obvious.
Remember the problem the F-22 had going across the international date line --
that code was a lot less tested than mine in that regard -- but they just
didn't think about it.
[http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22-squadron-shot-
down-b...](http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22-squadron-shot-down-by-the-
international-date-line-03087/)
------
pmichaud
We're going to see more and more of these articles popping up as cars become
more automated.
To me it doesn't matter what the rate of failure is on automated systems, as
long as the rate is below human failure rate. In that case, we win. It also
doesn't matter whether humans can recover given a failure, again given that
the failure rate is already below the average human failure rate.
The problem is that humans are really hung up on the illusion of control. We
know that in a car that drives it self that we're not in control and the
prospect of that machine killing us without our intervention scares us. What
we're not so sharp on is that by taking control we are [hypothetically]
increasing the chances of our injury or death, and in a field of all manual or
all auto cars, manual control doesn't even favor skilled drivers since the
real danger for above average skilled/careful drivers is the /other/ drivers
on the road.
~~~
khafra
It's the Dunning-Kruger effect: Sure, if this machine's failure rate is below
the human average, it'll be safer for average humans. But I'm better off in
control, because I'm a far better than average driver--aren't you, and almost
everyone you know?
~~~
mmt
I don't think this is more than just superficially true for driving.
As another commentor pointed out, there are (at least) two causes of "better,"
one being more skilled/practiced and the other being more careful.
Presented with such a dichotomy, I doubt the average person would grossly
over-estimate his own skill, though he might over-estimate his own
carefulness. Anyone find any studies on this?
I've also, in casual conversations, used the proxy of "loving" driving. Very
few people love to drive, unconditionally. For those that don't, eliminating
any mechanical aspect of operating the vehicle is potentially appealling,
since the whole experience is a degree of necessary evil.
Another proxy I used is transmission preference in "stop and go" traffic,
though this is just a specific case of the mechanical part of driving a car.
------
RyanMcGreal
>Fifty-two minutes after leaving St. George’s, Bermuda, on its way to Boston,
the Royal Majesty’s GPS antenna cable became detached from the GPS antenna.
This placed the GPS in dead-reckoning mode, which does not take into
consideration wind or sea changes. The degraded GPS continued to feed the
ship’s autopilot. No one noticed the change in GPS status, even though the GPS
position was supposed to be checked hourly against the Loran-C radio
navigation system, which is accurate by roughly one-half to 1 nautical mile at
sea, and a quarter-mile as a ship approaches shore.
Is there some reason why the GPS device couldn't raise an alarm when it
dropped into dead reckoning mode?
------
RiderOfGiraffes
This is a fascinating article. We are in constant dialog with our customers
about how much the systems we provide should do automatically. They always
want it to be entirely automatic, and we keep telling them that they need to
keep their staff engaged, alert, and prepared for emergencies.
This is a fantastic article to help them understand, and I'll be researching
the incidents mentioned. I already knew two of them, the others will be
invaluable.
Thank you - I wish I could up-vote you many times.
------
xcombinator
I disagree from the article. There is no paradox in automation, just a simple
sensationalism desire from the authors.
Everyday, there are thousands of accidents in the world(mainly cars) just
because human errors,like distractions, and if no automation existed there
will be dozens of airplane accidents everyday, given the enormous number of
flights.
It's not human intervention what is needed, it's just something as simple as a
proper error reporting system. If an accelerometer fails and nothing happens,
just report :ACCELEROMETER FAILED and problem solved. That a GPS failed, just
report: GPS FAILED, and problem solved. Just change the redundant
accelerometer, GPS when in land-port.
This is what human beings do, when one eye-ear-inertial information has
nothing to do with the other, we got dizziness sick.
If someone designed the system badly, is not fault of automation, it's fault
of the engineers. Debugging and testing is important.
~~~
RiderOfGiraffes
They're not saying that automation doesn't reduce accidents. They are saying
that the accidents that occur now are sometimes caused by the human operators
becoming deskilled because of the automation.
When you say:
" ... it's just something as simple
as a proper error reporting system."
you make it clear that you don't work in automated real-time systems. I do,
and it's more complex than you seem to think.
I know of a case similar to the grounding of the Royal Majesty. In that case,
again, the GPS antenna became disconnected. There was a proper error reporting
procedure that was defined and documented, and yet still no one fixed the
antenna, and still everyone trusted the AIS/GPS system even though it was
reporting as broken. In the same way that Windows users are "trained" to click
"OK" on every pop-up dialog, so they were "trained" by their day-in, day-out
experience to trust the system even though they'd been told it was broken.
You also say:
Debugging and testing is important.
I don't think there would be many who would disagree with you, but are you
suggesting that the systems described had had no debugging or testing? Of
course not. They had been debugged and tested. Exhaustively. And knowing
something of the field, most likely rather more than you imagine.
Bugs remain, and when they surface, humans need to be able to take over
swiftly and accurately. Increasing automation makes it less likely that they
do so. Even if you've had extensive and intensive training, if you don't use
it for six months then you are unlikely to remember it all in an emergency.
That's the message of the article, and I endorse it, because I personally have
seen it happening.
~~~
xcombinator
Hello I never said it was simple, I say it has to be simple. But the human
being is way complex and error reporting are so simple. Simple doesn't mean
"easy". IMHO engineers try to do complex systems they don't understand,
instead of simpler ones.
I have worked in automated real-time systems, and I was not bad at it. And
yes, I have seen real industries working with duct tape fixes, hanging cables
when there was parts movement,that was a calling for disaster, but I will
never take responsibility of it with my handstroke because if I let them go I
will go to jail if it happens. I know what is stopping a production chain for
doing something the "right way" and having the owners eyes on you while they
are losing thousands of euros every not working minute.
That is the proper and original meaning of Murphy Law, if you let something to
happen, it will.
Even when proper training, people do stupid things just because they can when
you let them. I had in my family an airplane pilot from the early days when
50% of their colleagues had died from crashes. A friend of him died trying a
"macho" demonstration to her girlfriend with his little plane. If you try to
do stupid things with a commercial airline, it won't let you unless you
deactivate the automation(and give explanation of why you did so).
------
billswift
>Checking the accuracy of the GPS system and autopilot perhaps seemed like a
waste of time to the watch officers, like checking a watch against the
Coordinated Universal Time clock every hour.
If the watchstanders didn't check it at least when they came on duty, and they
obviously didn't, they are criminally incompetent.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Understand Docker step by step. A tutorial repo for beginners - championshuttle
https://github.com/championshuttler/docker-basicLearning
======
championshuttle
Hello Everyone, I wrote a simple beginner tutorial for Docker, you can read
here [https://github.com/championshuttler/docker-
basicLearning](https://github.com/championshuttler/docker-basicLearning) or
[https://championshuttler.github.io/docker-
basicLearning](https://championshuttler.github.io/docker-basicLearning)
If you like it please do not forget to give the repo a ⭐.
Happy Open Source
------
hda111
“docker-compose up &” Never seen it with the & before. Why not use “-d”
instead?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: How to get feedback? - mixmastamyk
After submitting a pair of Show HN (SHN) stories I was a bit dismayed to see
they received zero interest, particularly as I got up at 6am to post
one. ;) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4196039<p>I wonder what's wrong? Surely the site must suck (first release should be
embarrassing right?), but even so a few "this sucks ..." replies would
be much preferable to the deafening indifference I received instead.<p>Looking over hnshowcase for the last few days I see that the majority of
SHNs get 0-1 votes or 40+. I haven't seen a clear division in site
quality between the two groups though, as many of the interesting are
the ignored. At risk of sounding like a whiner, should I have enlisted
a network of employees or upvoters first? I'm just a single guy and
this is my side project so I unfortunately don't have those kind of
resources available.<p>What can I do to turn this around? Would appreciate any comments.
======
duiker101
Uhm i can feel your pain. I do not have a clear answer for you. But i can make
assumptions.
People know each other. A lot of people on this site are in the startup scene
from SF NY etc... many know each other personally. This is a huge help.
People cheat. i do not have any proof but sometimes i notice that something
that might not be totally worth gets boosted by many points in a short time
period. This can be by bot or maybe even being in a small company can help.
Everyone gives a vote from the pc and the smartphone and the number goes up.
Sometimes it takes very little. I think that if a thread get a couple of votes
in the first 30 minutes it is more likely that people will open it and will
vote it. Generating an exponential effect. Same with comments. It takes very
little to distinguished your thread from the mass. If you do not abuse it do
not be ashamed of resubmitting your thread a week later. Maybe with a new
title. Title is also very important.
I usually look mostly at the new section just to find threads that are worth
an help. And i am sure there are other people that do it. You just need to be
a little lucky. Keep in mind what might be the most interesting hour to submit
for you target audience and try. But please don't abuse.
About you submission, you did a good job. You learnt something new, that's the
most important thing. You might want to work maybe a bit more on the design,
especially the colours, it feels, old. But really liked that hovering an event
would highlight it on the map ;)
~~~
mixmastamyk
Thanks, I'm having the same realization. It helps a lot to confirm that others
are too.
Re: the design, yeah I'm a programmer not a designer. I liked the Japanese
color scheme and thought it looked unique. My two design goals were simply
uniqueness and to avoid images/bandwidth costs, so there are some "old school"
elements such as the clipart.
Thankfully there is a provision built in for theming. There are a few choices
already, but I can make one with blue.
------
Toph
I thought of an idea similar to this a few years back but a VERY different
implementation. Unfortunately the project was finished (in code) but never
launched due to limitations of other platforms at the time to support the
overall way the solution worked. Its a good problem to solve.
------
eragnew
my take: a nice demo/tutorial would be nice. i went to <http://lax.kpasa.co/>
and didn't know what i was supposed to do. how do i use it?
+1 if you can demonstrate _within the demo_ why your service would add value
to me as a user. sell the service to me. tell me what i can get if i use this
service.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: I'm 28. Is it too late to get started with AI/Machine Learning? - thakobyan
If no, what are the great resources for starters? Any tips before I get this journey going? Thank you.
======
matchmike1313
It's never too late. Maybe apart from some age bias in the field (but that
most occurs closer to 40). I would suggest starting with some good foundation
in stats / modeling, this is an amazing book on that: An Introduction to
Statistical Learning by Robert Tibshirani and Trevor Hastie.
------
shock
No.
I recommend the ML course by Andrew Ng (I did it on coursera) and the AI
course by Sebastian Thrun and Peter Norvig.
------
mindcrime
What? No. Why in the world do people even ask this kind of question. To a
first approximation, the answer to "is it too late to get started with ..."
question is _always_ "no".
_If no, what are the great resources for starters?_
The videos / slides / assignments from here:
[http://ai.berkeley.edu/home.html](http://ai.berkeley.edu/home.html)
This class:
[https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-
learning](https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning)
This class:
[https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-machine-learning--
ud...](https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-machine-learning--ud120)
This book:
[https://www.amazon.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Modern-
Approa...](https://www.amazon.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Modern-
Approach-3rd/dp/0136042597)
This book:
[https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Machine-Learning-Scikit-
Learn-T...](https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Machine-Learning-Scikit-Learn-
TensorFlow/dp/1491962291/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1509309023&sr=1-3)
This book:
[https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Machine-Learning-
Python-...](https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Machine-Learning-Python-
Scientists/dp/1449369413/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1509309023&sr=1-5)
These books:
[http://greenteapress.com/thinkstats/thinkstats.pdf](http://greenteapress.com/thinkstats/thinkstats.pdf)
[http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkbayes/thinkbayes.pdf](http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkbayes/thinkbayes.pdf)
This book:
[https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Learning-Hackers-Studies-
Algo...](https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Learning-Hackers-Studies-
Algorithms/dp/1449303714)
This book:
[https://www.amazon.com/Thoughtful-Machine-Learning-Test-
Driv...](https://www.amazon.com/Thoughtful-Machine-Learning-Test-Driven-
Approach/dp/1449374069)
These subreddits:
[http://artificial.reddit.com](http://artificial.reddit.com)
[http://machinelearning.reddit.com](http://machinelearning.reddit.com)
[http://semanticweb.reddit.com](http://semanticweb.reddit.com)
These journals:
[http://www.jmlr.org](http://www.jmlr.org)
[http://www.jair.org](http://www.jair.org)
This site:
[http://arxiv.org/corr/home/](http://arxiv.org/corr/home/)
_Any tips before I get this journey going?_
Depending on your maths background, you may need to refresh some math skills,
or learn some new ones. The basic maths you need includes calculus (including
multi-variable calc / partial derivatives), probability / statistics, and
linear algebra. For a much deeper discussion of this topic, see this recent HN
thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15116379](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15116379)
Luckily there are tons of free resources available online for learning various
maths topics. Khan Academy isn't a bad place to start if you need that. There
are also tons of good videos on Youtube from Gilbert Strang, Professor
Leonard, 3blue1brown, etc.
Also, check out Kaggle.com. Doing Kaggle contests can be a good way to get
your feet wet.
And the various Wikipedia pages on AI/ML topics can be pretty useful as well.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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What Happens When You Swear At Your Users - alexschiff
http://blog.fetchnotes.com/post/17155558880/what-happens-when-you-swear-at-your-users
======
bradleyland
This probably goes without saying, but your user demographic has a lot to do
with how this kind of mishap will be received. Our product sells to Fortune
1000 companies in the procurement software space. I can tell you,
unequivocally, that the users of our product have a distinct lack of tolerance
with regard to "lack of attention to detail".
We've had a debug message or two slip through to production, and the
conversation that follows is never comfortable. The inevitable conclusion they
reach is that if we miss one small thing, we're likely to miss another.
Sometimes you really do have to sweat the small stuff.
~~~
yonasb
Exactly what I was thinking when I read this. If their users had been parents
40+, I'm willing to bet they'd have a slightly different reaction.
~~~
mayoff
As a 41 year old parent of a 16-month old, I can say that some of us are still
humans with a sense of humor.
~~~
bradleyland
We definitely have customers that would find something like this funny, but we
have plenty of large customers that wouldn't. When your ASP is around $100k a
year, you really want to avoid losing even a single customer to something
silly like using unprofessional language in a test email.
~~~
sirclueless
I can only speak for myself, but _I_ certainly have considerably more of a
sense of humor and tolerance for mistakes in a product that costs $2 versus
one that costs $2000. If you are charging me serious dough, then you better
damn well have your ducks in a row. If you are offering a free product, then
all you need is enough redeeming qualities to hold my attention.
------
patio11
You shouldn't say radioactively stupid things to your customers, but you
_should_ get their permission to talk to them and then proceed to do so,
because that will predictably raise engagement, retention, and many other
things you might be interested in tracking. Look at the graph. Look at the "I
had totally forgotten about you until you sweared at me, now I might actually
use the service" testimony. These things can be yours without swearing.
I've been worried for the last five years that I don't send enough email.
After having worked closely with some clients who have figured things out,
this strikes me as less "a missed opportunity" and more "an oversight as
glaring as being unable to spell SEO." They get _tremendous_ value out of
connecting with their customers on a semi-regular basis, and (this part truly
blows my email-hating-spam-squashing mind) so do their customers.
------
MicahWedemeyer
I've learned over the years to never put profanity or anything even mildly
offensive in test data. Too many times have I had to give an impromptu
presentation off my test database, only to see user names like "Asshat Joe"
and "Jack Off" show up big and bold on the projector screen.
Always, always use plain, non-offensive vanilla boilerplate text in everything
you do.
~~~
Lewisham
Yeah, I've been trying to bang into the heads of the students that I TA that
"there is no test data - only fake data." Test data always seems, to me, to
mean meaningless junk. Names like addresses to Dicksville, IL do nothing but
accidentally get leaked to someone they shouldn't, and they can't be
validated, which creates a whole nest of testing problems.
Fake data, like John Doe, San Francisco, CA, doesn't share these problems.
~~~
gaelenh
I read a story a couple years ago about a couple who had there home raided
over 50 times over a 4-5 year period by NYPD. Turns out there address was used
as test data in the system, and it was leaking into the police's
forms/database. So, if using fake data, make sure it can't be mistaken with an
actual address/phone number/dna sequence.
~~~
justincormack
There are already defined sets of telephone numbers that can be used for fake
data <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_telephone_number>
Also of course example.com. Not sure if there are non routeable physical
addresses.
~~~
tripzilch
> Not sure if there are non routeable physical addresses.
Santa Claus, North Pole, Snow Street 1
Sherlock Holmes, London, 221B Baker Street (is a small museum afaik)
~~~
thristian
It's actually the address of the Sherlock Holmes Museum, so not wholly
inaccurate.
I'm a fan of "Bilbo Baggins, 1 Bagshot Row, Bag End", personally.
~~~
tripzilch
Oh, not small then? :)
~~~
zem
very small, but worth a visit.
------
SoftwareMaven
I really hope every brand doesn't decide to start swearing at me. Personally,
after having a product that was supposed to be "the next step" in our
company's evolution get blasted in the press because a developer left a
smartass comment in (Google "you have to install directx dumbass"), my policy
is NO profanity, period, in any string, any test message, anything.
If you are _trying_ to build a brand around it, great. Make a conscious
decision and go with it. But doing it to be funny, "just amongst the team",
has a nasty way of biting you.
~~~
khyryk
No results found for "you have to install directx dumbass".
Am I missing something?
~~~
yread
_Orem, Utah-based Viewpoint DataLabs, which managed to include the following
in its LiveArt install:
Setup is unable to locate a suitable version of DirectX on your machine. You
will need to install DirectX before you can use LiveArt98, dumbass!_
<http://funehumor.com/fun_doc3/fun_0303.shtml>
------
krmmalik
Personally, i really don't like to see profanity in a professional context,
but having said that...i really like the way these guys handled it, and not
only that, their honesty and transparency really endears me towards them.
Edit: Interestingly enough, come from Britain, i think something like this
would fair worse of in the UK. I think we're a little more 'stiff' than our US
counterparts.
~~~
mindcrime
_I think we're a little more 'stiff' than our US counterparts._
Sure, until you've had a few pints in you! Then you lot are apt to do
anything...
Or maybe I just read too much "Bastard Operator from Hell."
~~~
krmmalik
Yeah it can and does happen but fortunately its outside the workplace so an
event such as this probably wouldnt be the result of a drunken stupor ;-)
------
mindcrime
_We won’t be throwing around profanity in our emails, but we’re definitely
going to try to take a more “real” tone rather than the false formality that
pervades most company communications._
This, to me, is the key takeaway from all this. That "false formality" is a
killer, IMO. I personally try very hard to avoid it when writing Fogbeam Labs
stuff, like our blog[1], but it's SOOO easy to slip into that mode. Keeping
that out and maintaining a "real" conversational tone is tough, but I believe
it's better in the long run. (No, I haven't A/B tested this or anything, it's
just a hunch).
[1]: <http://fogbeam.blogspot.com/>
------
GnomeChomsky
Sorry this is slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about the product here. Why
should I use it? What problem is it solving for me?
Halfway down the homepage it says, "Don’t Change: Use Fetchnotes with Google
Apps, Evernote, Outlook and all the other services you already love." Which
was a great reminder that I already have a ton of other services trying to get
me to keep notes in them... what's different about Fetchnotes and why isn't
this plastered all over the homepage?
/unsolicited feedback
------
andywood
This really would have been more responsibly titled "What Happened When We
Swore At Our Users That One Time".
------
gergles
Even not using profanity but just failing to have someone else review all your
translation strings can cause a serious problem:
[http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/acidiot.g...](http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/images/acidiot.gif)
------
DanBC
Today you accidentally send out a test email (with the word bitches).
That makes me worried that tomorrow you'll accidentally send out another email
leaking my details, or something similar.
I'm glad you didn't suffer too much for this small error, but the small errors
can have big consequences.
------
roel_v
The problem (well it's not even really a problem I guess) is that nowadays
you're not sure any more if this was an 'accidental' slip up, or a bold
marketing tactic. They surely are getting a lot more exposure with the 'slip
up', and if it had backfired, well who cares really - in 2 months time nobody
will remember.
Maybe I've been on the internet for too long and have become too skeptical.
------
rickmb
_> we’re definitely going to try to take a more “real” tone rather than the
false formality that pervades most company communications_
This makes me wonder if by now there is an entire generation of tech
entrepreneurs that has never read the Cluetrain Manifesto:
<http://www.cluetrain.com/>
~~~
timthorn
There's a difference between formal language and the corporate lexicon.
Formality is a form of respect, but managementspeak is essentially a political
creation.
------
verelo
I know the feeling!
I was once part of a team who accidentally sent a communication where we
updated our privacy policy, stating specifically that we would never share
your email address with anyone.
Sounds normal right? The catch is, we sent it to 1000 people per batch, and
rather than bcc'ing everyone, we used the "to" field. Whoops? Luckily we
caught the issue after the first batch, i have no idea to this day how it
slipped through QA however.
Similar result however, people didn't like it but many just wanted to point it
out to us (and we did our best at saying sorry) I totally got where they were
coming from, however we're human and life went back to normal eventually.
Lesson learned!
------
wiradikusuma
I was working on some XML stuff and put superhero names in the test XML file.
A week or so, some QA guy asked for sample XML and I gave it to him. Before I
knew it, my test file was circulated in QA and Business Analysts for testing.
I guess they didn't read what's inside or didn't bother.
Then our client came and the BAs gave demo to them, using my XML file (I
didn't know if they're going to use that!). The client were very upset with
it.
------
ggwicz
I like swearing in copy because I don't want to take money from somebody
stupid enough to be offended by "bad words". It's a great filter.
------
alexschiff
Hi all,
Alex Schiff, co-founder and CEO of Fetchnotes here (and author of this post).
The quality of discussion on the things we post to Hacker News never ceases to
amaze us! I just wanted to point out that we posted an invite link by which
1000 people can get access to our beta on the blog post itself. You can also
get in directly with this link:
www.fetchnotes.com/invite/blogpost
Thanks!
------
djsla
It is a clever (accidental?) marketing, but will the traffic stick?
Naturally, after reading the post, I went to check what fetchnotes is all
about and... could not figure it after 30 seconds of scanning the homepage and
left.
Anyone else had that problem?
~~~
5teev
I had the opposite reaction: this smacks of amateurishness, leaving me
skeptical of the overall product.
------
harryf
As they say - the only bad press is no press at all.
~~~
gyardley
They do say this, but they say it about Hollywood celebrities.
For startups, most of the time bad press is just plain bad.
------
pconf
This is what happens when companies don't value QA and/or don't hire
experienced systems administrators. Even among experienced sysadmins email
list servers are special skill.
No surprise when startups shoot themselves in the foot because the hiring
director is a codehead who does not see the value in a sysadmin who cannot
double as a dev or who is over 45 years old.
------
ndefinite
I just noticed there's nt link to your product or homepage from your blog. I
wanted to click to learn about what your product is but there's nothing there.
Not the end of the world for me, I can copy from the address bar but I wonder
if you're missing out on conversions.
Cool story though. I got a kick out of the customer responding back
"...bitches"
------
AtTheLast
I've always been a fan of connecting to users on a more human and personable
level. This might have been an accident, but it made FetchNotes feel more
human and have a sense of humor. I think most people really appreciate this,
considering the majority of websites are bland and full of generic marketing
text.
------
bomatson
Alex - Great job handling this, I received the bitches e-mail and got a good
chuckle out of it!
Hope the traffic sticks for your team
------
runjake
Demographics are everything. To this old dinosaur, I'd question your maturity
and whether I'd want to be a customer in the future -- especially if you have
any of my personal data.
Unlike some of the other commenters below, I don't think it's an issue of
whether you have a "sense of humor" or not. YMMV.
------
adavies42
can i just say your combination of background and link color is incredibly
annoying?
------
goblin89
I think it should be ‘What happens when you accidentally swear at your users
and properly apologize afterwards.’ It's only the latter that softens and
makes swearing look fun—IMO even for (most) young techy people.
------
stefs
they've been lucky. it might work once for a small, "personal" startup or a
company that centers its marketing strategy on being political incorrect. but
it also could have gone terribly wrong.
~~~
joering2
mind sharing "how"?
~~~
buckwild
It shows un-professionalism. Users will associate that character trait with
the company.
What would you think if you received a similar email from Apple or Google?
~~~
paisible
Making mistakes is human. How you deal with them is what shows your
professionalism.
------
petercooper
This would make for an interesting split test. Patrick..?
------
alexrbarlow
Interesting, I think its a nice reminder that the same old emails are boring
to most users
~~~
mikaelcho
CD Baby had a great e-mail that they sent users after an order:
"Your CDs have been gently taken from our CD Baby shelves with sterilized
contamination-free gloves and placed onto a satin pillow.
A team of 50 employees inspected your CDs and polished them to make sure they
were in the best possible condition before mailing.
Our packing specialist from Japan lit a candle and a hush fell over the crowd
as he put your CDs into the finest gold-lined box that money can buy.
We all had a wonderful celebration afterwards and the whole party marched down
the street to the post office where the entire town of Portland waved ‘Bon
Voyage!’ to your package, on its way to you, in our private CD Baby jet on
this day, Sunday, December 11th.
I hope you had a wonderful time shopping at CD Baby. We sure did. Your picture
is on our wall as "Customer of the Year". We’re all exhausted but can’t wait
for you to come back to CDBABY.COM!!
Thank you once again,
Derek Sivers, president, CD Baby"
------
itmag
The bitches who got offended over this are drama queens who should get the
sand out of their vaginas and redirect their attention to something worthier
than petty trifles and smallminded grudgebearing.
------
5teev
It's minimizing the offense a great deal to call the word "bitches" a "swear"
and not misogyny.
~~~
Resident_Geek
"Misogyny" means "hatred of women", nothing more, nothing less. This is not
misogyny by any stretch of the imagination.
~~~
DarkShikari
By that logic, the "N-word" isn't "hatred of blacks", so it's not racist.
"Bitch" is a loaded sexist term, much like the "N-word" is a loaded racist
term. There's really never a good reason to use it when you can use something
else instead. And just because some people _do_ use it doesn't mean you have
to sink to their level when there's a thousand other words you could use.
~~~
mrtron
As Louis CK once said, dont say the N-word.
If you want to raise a point based on the word nigger, use it in full. Saying
N-word forces the reader to translate, which is jerkish.
In reference to your point, bitch is not a sexist word in modern slang.
------
cq
Please don't beat yourselves up about this, only men use the internet anyway.
Men definitely wouldn't be offended by this misogynist word
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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How to disable all security checks for the login process to my Google account? - OrgNet
Google keeps locking me out of my accounts because they don't recognize the device (I don't let them track me as much as they would like, I guess)... A login and password is sufficient for most of my accounts.
======
phillipseamore
You don't want them to track you but are happy with them reading emails?
Anyways, I guess the login cookie and/or session storage is being cleared.
Then they obviously can't keep you logged in.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cloudflare drops support for Daily Stormer - MichaelGG
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/racist-daily-stormer-goes-down-again-as-cloudflare-drops-support/
======
MichaelGG
If this is accurate, it's a huge shift for Cloudflare and people will have to
start questioning every site that CF decides to service.
~~~
davesque
This would have happened eventually anyway. Cloudflare is not run by robots.
It's run by people who have boundaries.
Also, the case of the Daily Stormer doesn't really fall into any kind of
ethical gray area as far as I'm concerned.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: Review my startup, conceptcupboard.com - AdamJBall
I'm looking for feedback in to whether other entrepreneurs or startups would consider using a startup like Concept Cupboard. We've had moderate traction so far but I was wondering if there was anything glaringly obvious that is wrong.<p>Thanks in advance,<p>Adam
======
eduardordm
The landing page needs some serious design upgrade. In order to convince a
startup you need to be a sample of what they want to be. Right now, you are
not.
A 'real time' of jobs getting finished so users can see it without logging in
would be nice (for those who allow it).
You are in a somewhat saturated market, great to hear you got traction.
~~~
AdamJBall
I think this is one of our main problem areas. I've been A/B testing for the
last 6 months but I think this is something that I can drastically improve on.
Thank you for your time.
------
franze
less selling (really, it's annoying, it starts with the 25sec of pulsing
arrows at the end of the vide), more showing (more showcases (with less
selling elements), show the briefs / project details at least in teasered form
pre facebook login)
you need me to convince of the work you can do for me (or you can get done for
me) - it's no use to just stick conversion elements into my face again and
again) - or simple said: more showing, less selling. i.e.: i have two
wordpress bases webprojects coming up, both would need logos your service
created, show me the logos you created (not only the winners, but all of
them), if i would find one (just one) of them sexy, i would consider your
service, until yet i haven't found one.
~~~
AdamJBall
Thanks for the comments. Totally agree about the video, getting onto the
creator to cut that down.
Will make sure to get more case studies onto the home page as currently they
are only found via our footer (which no one really looks at).
Did you find you knew how the whole site worked pretty quickly or did you have
to delve into more detail in the site?
Thanks,
Adam
------
brackin
I think I've been receiving emails from you guys for about a year. I seem to
remember the previous design being slightly more muted. It's a good market to
tackle though, good luck with what you're doing.
~~~
AdamJBall
Yeah, we had a refresh in February and got quite a lot of good feedback on it.
I think the style that we have on the site it good but the elements and
content we showcase needs more looking at.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Linus Torvalds Guided Tour of His Home Office [video] - Walkman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSgUPqygAww
======
cuong
It's watching one of those hoarder shows on TLC.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: Interested in a hacker newser poker meetup in the Bay Area? - jpwagner
I think this would be a good way to meet other hacker newsers, share ideas, and play some poker.<p>I'd be happy to host and order food, and hopefully we'll get a few more hosts in a rotation for an ongoing game.<p>See the link in my comment below to sign up.
======
jpwagner
[https://spreadsheets0.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=...](https://spreadsheets0.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dDd4MjAzOGZIaE1UeHdLVG5VRnpab2c6MQ#gid=0)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Beat big businesses by owning your small size - lingben
http://customer.io/blog/small-business-customer-satisfaction-strategy.html
======
matryoshka
As a small business owner, I've been getting to know my customers really well.
My business is focused on handcrafted cremation urns and urn like pieces,
which can be dreary (black humor definitely helps). I hand hold people through
their purchases and know what questions they might ask. Being small works in
my favor.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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DEC System's Research Center Technical Memos - soundsop
http://research.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/
======
michael_dorfman
Wow! Thanks for that. I feel like I've hit the motherlode.
I'm going to start with "A functional specification of the Alpha AXP shared
memory model" paper....
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: Thoughts on GWT? - afshin
I've been a little dismissive of GWT as a tool for creating complex front-end logic and interfaces mostly because I prefer writing JS code. But I am curious: where do other developers stand on JS vs GWT? Is anyone other than Google building major apps with it?<p>EDIT: left out "logic and interfaces"
======
steilpass
My current point of view: If you have a large base of Java developers who
don't or can't switch to JavaScript, GWT is a good choice. BTW you will also
need a framework for your "complex front-end logic" JavaScript code. If you
don't go for GWT you should look for good MVC JavaScript framework: Ext.JS,
Cappuccino, Sproutcore, Sammy.JS ...
~~~
afshin
Thanks for responding :-)
It turned out nobody else had much to say here, but I posted at /r/javascript
... if you're curious, here's what's going on there:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/dppwu/ask_rjavas...](http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/dppwu/ask_rjavascript_thoughts_on_gwt/)
| {
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Canada's new 25 cent coin features a dinosaur, glows in the dark and more - tersiag
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57412545-1/canadas-newest-coin-glows-in-the-dark/
======
gamble
This coin is cool, but it isn't intended for circulation so one wonders how
durable the design is.
I actually think the 'poppy quarters'[1] are a bit cooler, because they've
been in use since 2004. At the time they were the first coloured coin in
circulation. They were unusual enough that American military contractors
visiting canada even raised an alert that they might be espionage devices.[2]
[1]
[http://www.canada.com/poppy+coin+introduced+Canada/3806046/s...](http://www.canada.com/poppy+coin+introduced+Canada/3806046/story.html)
[2] [http://www.thestar.com/news/article/211189--u-s-feared-
poppy...](http://www.thestar.com/news/article/211189--u-s-feared-poppy-
quarter)
------
nwmcsween
Not exactly, the Canadian mint rolls out all kinds of customized quarters in
fact if you are Canadian look in your pocket and and I bet you'll have a
differing quarter.
------
javert
They could charge a lot more if they did the same effect to Her Majesty on the
reverse side. You know, just lighting up the bones.
------
excuse-me
First you laughed at their pitiful loonie
Then it reached parity
Now even the quarters are worth $29.95
~~~
rollypolly
You gota give it to them, their polymer money is beautiful too:
<http://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/>
~~~
kamjam
Several years back I was backpacking around Asia and that's where I saw this
"plastic" money. I thought they were fantastic, the paper stuff around was
falling apart yet here was something that I could keep in my board shorts,
going swimming with, not worry about someone stealing it from my wallet that I
had to leave at the beach, and I could then use it straight away without to
individually dry them out again! Or putting it through the washing machine :)
I didn't realise Canada had them too! Kinda surprised more countries are not
using them, the security features (like the see through window) must be a lot
harder to replicate, as well as looking pretty cool!
~~~
winthrowe
They're just being rolled out in Canada. So far, just the 100 and the 50 have
been released into general circulation. I'll be glad when the 20, 10 and 5 are
released; with the popularity of debit, I don't tend to have reason to carry
large bills.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: I called my cc company to renew my card.. - quantumpotato_
I hear staticy voices for a couple seconds, now I'm hearing a loop. eg I can hear the echo of me typing this going through the microphone, out their speakers and back through mine.<p>I'll try calling them back.. and hope they aren't compromised.
======
emhs
This is something I've seen happen phone networks from time to time. A call
will get routed into an echo, rather than to its destination. Not sure why it
happens, though. There seems to be enough delay that it's getting out into the
towers before coming back.
------
quantumpotato_
Called back and it went through as usual. Any idea what happened?
~~~
coryl
Audio feedback? Speakers instead of headphones?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: How should we promote our web-based startup for as-free-as-possible. - Chirag
Folks, We need your help with suggestions/feedback on how to spread word about our project. We are one month old startup based out of Bangalore and have a team of 4 people spread across India.<p>Thanks,
cc
======
patio11
First, your project needs to solve a problem for an identifiable group of
people. Then, you build a relationship with the people that group of people
trusts (e.g. by blogging, commenting on their blogs, etc). Then, you introduce
your thing as something which will help their readers/colleagues/etc solve
your problem.
That is the general gist of it. Your bigger problem: what identifiable group
of people has a hole in their life shaped just like a news aggregator/mashup
machine?
Edited to add: It is almost never, ever, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeever in your interest
to allow yourself to appear poor and desperate, much less to make a point
about it. "We are in desperate need of PR person (who can work for free :) )"
is the first thing I see on your home page. That tells me you're poor,
desperate, and unprofessional. "Indiameme is seeking forward-thinking PR
professionals" is a much, much better way to phrase it.
(Forward-thinking, in this case, means willing to work for an unconventional
arrangement in which they do your PR and you help them surface their stories.
Word to the wise: no sane PR flack will go for this. However, having the offer
on your front page won't hurt you.
~~~
Chirag
Added: I have read this comment and sitting with my team today to discuss it
in detail. Thanks again.
------
javery
A link or description of your startup would be a good first step. :)
------
Chirag
Well Thanks, @javery
Site Url <http://www.indiameme.com/>
Short Description: As a bloggers we are all passionate about the news and
daily on goings in India, it is really hard to catch up with the best stuff in
news and blog. I also faced simillar problem a while ago and decided to wrote
a program to grab the best of stories around India and show it on easy to read
simple page.
~~~
maurycy
Sorry to say but personalized home pages and RSS mashups are like five years
ago. Competing in this sector takes much more.
~~~
Chirag
@maurcy Thanks, this technology behind the site which is as rightly pointed
out is rss mashup is not the core strength.
The main USP, if you will of the site is the sources it polls and the
editorial team.
------
pclark
why is your site so hard to find the news? when I go to your homepage I see
_no_ news.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Ask HN: Easily reachable & predictable long term goals? - diminium
I have this theory that one of the key success in obtaining joy is to create a script or a goal on the future that is easily reachable no matter what.<p>For example, when we were a kid we dreamt about going to school, going to college/joining military, getting married, getting a house, and raising a successful family. (Ok, this example definitely doesn't apply to everyone in this site, especially those outside the US)<p>Because of this, we had some structure, some points where we can pinpoint success in our goals. A large part of our memories and point of happiness can be pointed to where the goals of this script is reached.<p>As people who join startups, we have big huge ideas that quite frankly, isn't going to come true. Every big goal we have is going to flop due to some circumstances we'll fail at reaching it. That is to say we won't be successful but if you asked the guys at YouTube about the goal of their failed video dating site is, they'll have a great story to tell you. Most of the major success stories out there came from people who had no clue how the start ended up as the end.<p>This probably doesn't apply to everyone but I'm curious, what kind of long term but reachable goals do you guys have? How did you figure them out?
======
VicT11
I might have some different thoughts as far as your statement on easily and
reachable goals. I think a much more effective technique is achievable but
challenging and out of your comfort zone goals, that can be easily categorized
as a success or not. (i.e. Instead of learning the guitar - I hope to learn 5
songs on the acoustic guitar by December)
My personal biggest goals are: (short-term)Get a job at start up that puts me
in a position where I get to work hand in hand with the founders => Get
involved with Angel Investing by forming relationships with existing ones =>
(long-term) Assemble a team and be part of a start up from the ground up =>
Get involved with the Angel Investing community as an investor.
Also, Tim Ferris has some great thoughts as far as goal setting if you are
interested.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Weekend Project: Viral Marketing Done Right - alexrothenberg
http://awesome-site-staging.heroku.com/
======
elisee
At first I was misled into thinking this was just a site making fun of
contentless startup landing pages.
It's actually about testing your email formatting / sending. The full article
is located at: [http://www.alexrothenberg.com/2011/10/24/using-letter-
opener...](http://www.alexrothenberg.com/2011/10/24/using-letter-opener-to-
view-sent-email-on-a-server.html)
------
bomatson
Clever copy...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Android now has 68% of the global smartphone market. - damian2000
http://www.businessinsider.com/android-is-crushing-apple-in-smartphone-shipments-worldwide-2012-8
======
damian2000
Another interesting stat from the linked-to source article: "China accounted
for 27% of the 158 million global smart phone shipments, compared to 16% for
the United States.". Within China itself, 81% of smartphones are Android.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How does HN make money? - bikamonki
======
byoung2
HN itself doesn't make any money, but it serves as a community that attracts
people who apply for YC, and in turn generate returns (similar to the
playground at a McDonalds). There are other startup accelerators that don't
have a community like HN, and they miss out on this source of potential
applicants.
------
api
Indirectly: brand identity, community building, etc. YC makes money off seed
funding deals.
Lots of venture capitalists blog heavily for the same reason.
------
logn
HN makes YC's investment portfolio more valuable, via:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/jobs](https://news.ycombinator.com/jobs)
[http://www.ycombinator.com/apply/](http://www.ycombinator.com/apply/)
------
towelguy
It does?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: CutCode: Double Click to Copy Code from Stack Overflow - amitness
https://github.com/amitness/cutcode
======
mootzville
Yes! Now I can bring down my production server even easier!
Ha, joking. This is useful when toying around. Thanks.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ISO/IEC/IEEE 29119 Software Testing - cik
http://www.softwaretestingstandard.org/
======
cik
Can we standardize software testing? Should we standardize software testing?
At some point, are we looking at standardizing an artistic science? What
happens to software development, architectural design, or even music?
Does the push to standardize these things jeopardize them from future new and
hence 'non-standard' ways.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Converting Trashed Jets Into Exploding Drones - brk
http://www.fastcompany.com/1805309/qf-4-qf-16-aerial-target-program-air-force-boeing
======
ethank
This makes me sad for some reason. The turbine engine in an F-16 or F-4 is a
beautiful piece of machinery. Design and functionality merged entirely really.
And they just blow them up. Although they likely use high-hour engines (as I
know a lot of jet engine cores get sold to use as power generators), it still
makes me sad. Like retiring an old iPhone.
------
icegreentea
Here is another article about F-4s as target drones. Much more in depth.
[http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/Where-Have-
All-...](http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/Where-Have-All-the-
Phantoms-Gone.html)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
We don't sell saddles here - alexpopescu
http://medium.com/p/4c59524d650d
======
alexpopescu
Bragging aside, explaining the whole business from a (potential) customer
experience is what differentiates good from bad companies (_nb_ I was tempted
to write successful vs failing, but then I realized there are some very bad
companies out there)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Examples of Bauhaus Graphic Design - at-fates-hands
https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/5-examples-of-bauhaus-graphic-design-that-shaped-the-movement/
======
Daub
One oft ignored impact of Bahaus is the impact it had on how design taught.
Amongst other things Bauhaus introduced the first cross disaplinary program
(both applied and fine art) and the now ubiquitous foundation year (the first
year of a design school).
------
sarosh
The actual collection itself is available at
[https://www.harvardartmuseums.org/publications/special-
colle...](https://www.harvardartmuseums.org/publications/special-
collections/the-bauhaus?group=The+Bauhaus&sort=objectnumber.exact) The
timeline view (with examples!) in particular is very interesting to see how
specific features became to be so deeply associated with the movement. At
[https://www.harvardartmuseums.org/tour/the-
bauhaus/slide/633...](https://www.harvardartmuseums.org/tour/the-
bauhaus/slide/6338)
------
dvfjsdhgfv
For everyone interested in Bauhaus and several related styles, I recommend
exploring monoskop.org.
------
mettamage
The Danish Design Museum had an exhibition on it recently. Maybe it’s still
there?
So if you want to have an excuse to go to Copenhagen, here it is!
~~~
usmannk
Perhaps closer to much of the HN audience, the Cooper Hewitt Smithsonian
Design Museum in NYC has an exhibit as well! I went recently and it, along
with the rest of the museum, is terrific.
[https://www.cooperhewitt.org/2019/10/30/cooper-hewitt-to-
pre...](https://www.cooperhewitt.org/2019/10/30/cooper-hewitt-to-present-
herbert-bayer-bauhaus-master-exhibition/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The UK Legalizes Eugenics (three parent in-vitro fertilization) - iwwr
http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/parenting/uk-begins-three-parent-ivf-debate-1.1384671#.UFcnVkasj2g
======
TomasSedovic
The submission's title is very misleading.
According to the article (titled "UK begins three-parent IVF debate") they are
starting a debate on the issue and seeking comments from the people.
They plan to send a report to the UK government in early 2013, which could
then possibly lead to legalising the procedure.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How to finish projects, when you're multipotentialite? - zenobius
Hello, I'm new here, but from what I saw it's a good place to ask a question that's been bothering me for quite some time.<p>I'm a multipotentialite. If I resolve a problem in my head, I'm bored with it. I can tell someone how to do it, see the results, and then check the feedback. I'm good at this.<p>For my daily job I have a dev team and I'm responsible for introducing new IT/process solutions in our company. And that's basically my dream job - I gather and process information, and give solutions that my team can develop, or that managers in other departments can introduce to their processes.<p>I work with computers (for me IT is about doing all the things that are repetitive, so people can do creative stuff), but mostly I work with people, as I need to know what the teams in the company can do, what do we need changes on system level or what can we leave to people, as solutions are often on the border.<p>I have a lot of projects that I've started, piles of notes I've made since I was ~14, a lot of backups with projects that I started, I developed some kind of pre-MVP versions, just to explore my ideas and see what's possible at the time - and when I "solved" it.. it was boring, and I went to other projects.
Last project made me snap, as I've got the working thing on the web, planned out the refactoring (as it was written in 2 days as a proof of concept and to gather feedback), and I can't make the next step..<p>The only idea I have is to have a help of 1-2 developers that are willing to put their time in my project. Project that (mostly) don't have a business plan, but they may be fun to do, may create a great community, maybe in future they can have some business value (but this I didn't yet figured).<p>Now my 30th is coming, and for couple of months I've been wondering about "how to make this work?"<p>Did any of you out there had similar problems? I know I'm not the only one :-) How did you make the next step in making your projects work?
======
hndude
I don't see how being a "multipotentialite" precludes you from finishing work.
If you're bored with something and don't do it, that is an issue of motivation
and discipline.
~~~
zenobius
I finish it, but just as a mind-activity. I can't gather the strength to
finish the project. My job is done when I've figured out how to do this.
I know that "I'm multipotentialite" sounds like an excuse. I'm not disciplined
(I have motivation, but it ends prematuarly).
I'm wondering how people that have "100 ideas a minute" figure out to finish
just that 1/100 of the ideas.
I don't seem to be able to.
When I have some coworkers that do that - it's just fine, but when it's my own
project without a company behind it, it just dies out of lack of interest and
continuity.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Brave Clojure Jobs - Use the Language You Love - nonrecursive
https://jobs.braveclojure.com/
======
hellofunk
title is misleading and does not actually appear on the page.
there's been this for a while and many others:
[https://remoteok.io/remote-clojure-jobs](https://remoteok.io/remote-clojure-
jobs)
~~~
nonrecursive
I've changed the title in case there have been other Clojure-only job boards
out there, but as far as I can tell RemoteOK and other job boards do not focus
exclusively on Clojure. They maybe allow you to filter to show only Clojure
jobs, or have a Clojure section, but I consider that different from catering
exclusively to Clojure jobs :)
~~~
hellofunk
fair enough, but there are lots of resources, for example linkedin has a page
dedicate to clojure:
[https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/clojure-
jobs](https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/clojure-jobs)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What is the reason behind the rise of cryptocurrency? - phoe17
I have been following the rise of value but I am still unsure about reason behind its rise.<p>Most of the discussions point on crypto sub-reddits are about buying and HODL-ing. I sort of understand that people are investing hoping someone (A greater fool?) buys it from them at a higher value.Holding also discourages people from using it in exchange for goods and services. Isn't that defeating the purpose of a currency?<p>Also, what justifies Bitcoin's value at ~17k ?<p>I am interested in reading any neutral posts or articles analysing the rise of Crypto and where it is headed.
======
bufferoverflow
There are different reasons for the rise. The main ones I see are:
1) speculation
2) attractive store of value due to the deflationary nature (note that not all
cryptocurrencies are deflationary)
3) True limited supply that's mathematically guaranteed. Gold supply, for
instance, is not limited in any practical sense, there are trillions of tons
of it in our Galaxy, it's all a matter of technological advanvements of its
extraction.
4) secure transactions that can't be reversed (though you can use escrows if
you want the reverse option)
5) low transaction fees (except for bitcoin)
6) inability of anyone to stop you from moving the money in your possession.
See 'paypal sucks' stories, civil forfeiture.
7) works extremely well on the internet
8) fast transaction settlement
9) works over almost any protocol, you can technically manage bitcoins with a
dumb phone over SMS
10) banking for those who doesn't have access to banking
11) libertarian aspect - no government control
The Bitcoin price is justified by the free market. People want it, they are
willing to pay for it. That's true of any currency value, btw, since there are
no government currencies pegged to gold, it's all based on whether people
believe in the currency. When they stop believing, we get Zimbabwean dollar,
Venezuelan Bolivar, USSR Ruble, Argentinian peso.
~~~
alexasmyths
Points #1 and #2 are contradictory.
A _speculative_ instrument is the opposite of a _store of value_.
A 'store of value' is like real estate - low-risk, probably low-return, but
you can park your money there and in X years, it's going to mostly be there.
US Bonds.
Your bank account, i.e. USD is a decent, though not great 'store of value'.
Your USD is not going to go $0 overnight.
Speculative investments are there to generate return almost always involve
more risk.
BTC could go to $0 tomorrow. Suppose the US Gov. makes everyone legally
declare their BTC assets as assets and they are subject to taxation etc.. That
might pull the plug on BTC, but worse, cause a stampede crash in a highly
volatile situation. There are many reasons that a rush-to-exit could happen
for BTC. So - speculation - not a 'store of value'
These other fetures of BTC may have been important early on but they are not
what gives it value.
Because nobody is using BTC as a currency, almost none of those points are
pragmatically relevant - yes - in theory, they need to exist to have gotten it
off the ground.
~~~
paulhodge
They're different narratives but I think they are both in play.
If you ask a Bitcoin investor about why they invested, then they might explain
it as a store of value, "digital gold", or etc. With that narrative, Bitcoin
makes sense in the world, and isn't just a fad. And the erratic price is just
a growing pain, it'll stabilize eventually.
But of course, the _real_ reason many people are buying BTC right now is
because of the speculative nature, they want to get rich quick. If someone's
investment in BTC is significantly larger than their investment in bonds,
commodities, real estate, etc, then "it's a store of value" is probably not
the real reason they're buying BTC.
~~~
phoe17
> If someone's investment in BTC is significantly larger than their investment
> in bonds, commodities, real estate, etc, then "it's a store of value" is
> probably not the real reason they're buying BTC.
Are there any good articles or blog posts analysing this trend?
------
cletus
Personally I see the three biggest factors as:
1\. Rampant speculation. Note that a relatively few "investors" hold a fairly
large percentage of BTC in particular.
2\. Capital controls and wealth protection in certain countries (most notably
China and Russia); and
3\. Illegal activity (including money laundering).
If I had to guess, probably in that order (from high to low). The seedy side
of this (3) is obvious and (to my detriment) is why I steered clear.
Cryptos may have been envisioned as an alternative currency but it's clear
they're behaving far more like an asset class and that they have some bad
properties for a currency to have, most notably the deflationary aspect and
the inability to manage the money supply (which some will view as a positive).
It's really anyone's guess what happens from here. Thing is though, even
though an individual coin is limited in supply my personal belief is that this
will even out when people realize that different coins are essentially
commodities so new ICOs are what will meet demand. I'm not sure when we'll get
there however.
~~~
jbob2000
The seedy side of crypto is 100% the reason I am staying away. One of it's
biggest benefits (lack of institutional control) is also it's biggest
detraction; anyone who is trying to avoid law enforcement is using it. When
you purchase bitcoins, there's probably a good chance you are funding: hackers
who are holding systems hostage; child pornography/prostitution rings; illegal
arms and drug dealers; scammers; etc. etc.
The banking system, for all its issues, makes collecting and moving large
amounts money around very difficult. We are going to quickly find out that
that is a Good Thing.
I really think the debate about crypto has been poisoned with malicious
intent. We all sit behind our computers thinking the people on the other end
are just like us, with wonderful ideas for a technological revolution, but we
have no clue what the real motives are behind its push.
~~~
rdm_blackhole
This argument is not valid.
What about the drug dealers selling their stuff for cash?
I can do the same argument about fiat money. What about the tax dodgers
crossing borders with suitcases full of cash that will end up in some offshore
bank never to be seen again? The fact that some people use bitcoin to launder
money is no different than a government paying a ransom to free a hostage in a
hostile country.
`The banking system, for all its issues, makes collecting and moving large
amounts money around very difficult`
That is why cryptocurrencies exist in the first place!
If I have money, that I have already paid taxes on, shouldn't I be free to do
whatever I want with it without having to answer to a bank or a government
like I am some kind of child that needs to be chaperoned? Why can't I use what
is mine without restrictions?
Banks don't mind doing their dirty business deals behind closed doors and will
deter anyone to look into their questionable business practices but for some
reason, me, the average Joe who doesn't have lawyers on retainer to keep
everybody at bay, I should be required to leave my money in a bank and hope
that the banks are not going to lose it all like they did in 2008?
That doesn't make sense to me.
~~~
jbob2000
> I can do the same argument about fiat money. What about the tax dodgers
> crossing borders with suitcases full of cash that will end up in some
> offshore bank never to be seen again?
It's a felony to do that with more than $10,000 and if you wanted to move any
serious amount of money (millions) you'd need a small truck. You risk getting
robbed moving that kind of cash.
>>`The banking system, for all its issues, makes collecting and moving large
amounts money around very difficult` >That is why cryptocurrencies exist in
the first place!
You're missing my point; _It 's a good thing that moving large amounts of
money is difficult_. I can't see any legitimate reason why someone would want
to move tons of money around, just write a cheque or do a bank transfer of
some sort.
If bitcoin becomes the new currency, you aren't any more free than you were
under the banks, you're just beholden to a different master - the people who
maintain the cryptocurrency networks.
~~~
Rmilb
>you aren't any more free than you were under the banks, you're just beholden
to a different master - the people who maintain the cryptocurrency networks.
Exactly. Bitcoin just like fiat is backed by trust in those who run the
network. Bitcoin doesn't solve many problems as a store of value right now if
you trust the government not to print trillions like they did after the 2009
crisis.
If you don't trust the developers, don't trust the coin.
------
shawabawa3
Gold's market cap is $8 trillion.
90+% of that value is as a store of value and speculation.
Cryptocurrencies could do that job better. Even with the high fees atm for
bitcoin, it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than shipping gold
~~~
phoe17
I have a read a few people comparing Bitcoin's store of value to that of
Gold's. That analogy does make sense but they started off by calling Bitcoin a
new form of currency, have we given up on that use-case?
Also, Gold fluctuates a lot less and the exchange of Gold is often not
anonymous. If I am looking for a place to put my savings why would I choose an
anonymous market that is highly volatile?
I understand that this logic is negated by Bitcoin's current value.
------
xwvvvvwx
Bitcoin is worth $17k because thats how much someone will pay for it.
Right now the blockchain space is in a clear bubble. A lot of people (many
uninformed) see the price rise and don't want to miss out. This drives the
price higher.
At some point there will be a correction. Nobody knows the timing or size. My
guess would be that this will not happen until we see the failure of a major
blockchain.
With that said blockchains are a remarkably powerful new tool and if they can
be sensibly scaled they will be extremely impactful. Blockchains allow for the
creation of self sustaining, trustless, autonomous marketplaces. A lot of
intermediaries are about to be automated away by these protocols (think about
platforms like Airbnb or Uber).
Some useful parallels can be drawn with the dot com bubble. A lot of
valuations were totally unjustified, but you would have done very well if you
bought and held Amazon stock in 1997 (66,600%).
A more interesting question is whether Bitcoin is the Amazon or MySpace of the
blockchain revolution.
I have found the following resources to be very instructive:
\- The original Bitcoin whitepaper:
[https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf)
\- Mastering Bitcoin:
[https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook](https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook)
\- The Ethereum wiki:
[https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki](https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki)
\- The Bitcoin Core mailing list:
[https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d...](https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-
dev)
------
Finnucane
>Also, what justifies Bitcoin's value at ~17k ?
Rich people in non-democratic countries worried about currency export controls
and sanctions. Other methods of parking money externally (real estate, etc.)
are subject to restriction and seizure.
~~~
phoe17
Isn't the high volatility a major drawback to this use-case?
~~~
__sha3d2
The volatility is supposedly temporary
------
venganesh
No one knows to be exact. BTW, that's "Cryptocurrencies" not Crypto.
~~~
starshadowx2
Both terms are widely used and are correct.
~~~
malikNF
While true, it would be really great (although I think its too late) if people
would use the term "Cryptocurrencies" instead of "Crypto", since Crypto used
to mean cryptography.
Pretty much its just like the hacker v cracker debate.
~~~
starshadowx2
"the hacker v cracker debate" is (in my mind at least) over. There were and
are many people who don't like the way the word "hacker" is used, but so what?
Language changes, slang evolves. "Crypto" used to only mean one thing, now it
means two. What's really the big deal about that?
------
cameldrv
My interpretation is that there are multiple factors at play on the demand
side:
1\. Initially drug, and other illicit item dealing. It's hard to process
payments for an illegal or risky business. Bitcoin (mostly) has no one to
reject you as a customer. I would not be surprised if major smuggling networks
were starting to use Bitcoin, as it's seemingly much easier and less risky
than carrying huge wads of cash across borders.
2\. Circumvention of capital controls and economic sanctions. People in
Argentina, Zimbabwe, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, and China have, to varying
degrees, a limited ability to process financial transactions with the outside
world through the usual SWIFT/correspondent banking networks. Bitcoin solves
this problem. The relatively high transaction costs are not too much of a
barrier for these types of transactions, since they tend to be larger.
3\. Speculation. Crypto has been shooting through the roof, and people are
piling on the bandwagon.
4\. Tax avoidance. Significant holders of crypto assets may want to diversify
out of crypto, but can't because it will create a paper trail and trigger a
form being sent to the taxman. In some cases, these people may have owed taxes
in prior years which they haven't paid, and they don't know what to do. Some
of them have tried to diversify their holdings by trading into altcoins or
ICOs to put off the day of reckoning. IMO this factor explains a lot of the
explosive demand for ICOs.
5\. "Asset Protection." Crypto provides what many believe to be an off the
books/untraceable store of value. This might appeal to people being sued,
people going through a divorce, or people under criminal investigation.
6\. Possible foreign government interests. Some countries, Russia in
particular, resent the centrality of the U.S. in the world banking system, its
ability to cripple economies by cutting off banking relationships, and the
dollar's role in the world oil trade. These countries might be contributing to
the hype, and perhaps even buying crypto to create legitimacy for alternatives
to the U.S. dollar.
------
alexasmyths
"Also, what justifies Bitcoin's value at ~17k ?"
Nothing - it's a meme, a fad - a rampantly speculative one that involves
money.
So many press articles touting 'BTC breaks $X' price point - it's clickbait -
and also many jornos and bloggers have positions which they are not disclosing
yet, though this is changing.
Because there is no way to value BTC, it's funny game. Someone on Bloomberg
indicated a valuation technique which related BTC to popularity in Google
searches. Which is rather interesting: BTC's value is a function of it's
popularity. Which explains a lot.
ICSs are 'hot' because we've seen how much 'money people have made' in BTC and
so major bets are being placed on ICOs.
They are a magnificently easy way to grab money from people who kind of think
they are 'making an investment' but really their not getting much at all. An
IPO with 0% dilution.
~~~
kenpomeroy
Of course Bitcoin's value is a function of its popularity - it is a network.
Networks become more valuable (and more useful) the more popular they are.
------
quickthrower2
Like other currencies, it is all about confidence. Why do people work so hard
for $USD which has no inherent value? Because it has value due to people's
confidence in it. And the comes from having an entire society and tax system
based on that currency.
Now with Bitcoin the confidence is coming more from speculation as to what it
could be, and that indeed a "greater fool" will buy for a higher price - but
with the finance casino preparing to add this game to their game floor, there
is a good chance you will find such fools.
I saw today a car being advertised for sale 1 BTC. I live in a very non-tech
city so word is spreading. There are limited coins and demand will increase.
Newcomers will not question or care about "oh it used to be $50 for 10000 BTC
why should I pay this much"
------
awareBrah
Amongst some of the people I know, cryptos _currently_ provide much better
investment returns than the stock market. These people have a bunch of extra
money lying around, why settle for 3-10% returns when you hear stories of
crypto graining thousands of percent. To them it’s not about the potential or
the technology, it’s strictly the returns over time.
------
workthrowaway27
I don't know what the reasons for the rise are, but I bet it's largely driven
by Chinese investors/speculators rather than anything happening in the US, but
I think that is reported on less because it is not very visible if you're not
based there.
~~~
tobydownton
Except that all Chinese exchanges / ICOs got banned a couple of months ago.
The US is probably that largest market, it's the home of Coinbase ... I just
don't see what you are basing this assertion on.
~~~
AnimalMuppet
Just guessing here, but... If I were Chinese, and I liked the idea of
cryptocurrency (especially the untraceable part), and the government banned
it, do you think that ban would make me _less_ interested in it? Or _more_?
~~~
jason_slack
Working with Chinese co-workers, I think it would make them less interested.
The penalty for disobeying their government is severe.
------
itamarst
It sounds like you've already answered your question :)
------
dzek
I'm wondering why a lot of cryptos (eth, ltc, many more) use price is going up
since circa 4 days. Like something happend or is going to happen.
~~~
sharemywin
bitcoin futures market is making it more main stream. futures might lead to an
etf which would explode the value.
------
jgamman
people with 10s of Giga $$ hiding in tax havens are moving it to the next
hidey hole. maybe they started it, mined the first few hundred thousand coins
and now they're just dumping $$ into it at regular-ish intervals for long
enough that the rest of us just get used to it. maybe a bit like how the
Brazilians got the Real which is an interesting story in and of itself.
------
c0nducktr
People behave irrationally when there's FOMO.
------
aviv
FOMO
------
down
bitcoin is like a bank account, is mostly a movement against banks and money
printing, I personally, had a few months paychecks as savings in an account,
after a year, I got less money, the commissions were bigger than the interest,
after a few other months when I wanted to close it, I have to pay money out of
pocket, for the commissions, everything that f... the banks, is welcome in my
book, I'm surprised after them crashing the economy in 2008 and getting away
with it, we are still their bitches and we are OK with it, fool me once, fool
me twice.
------
roro5678
I think people are losing trust in govt and banks
~~~
bdcravens
These are reasons for Bitcoin to exist as a currency, but doesn't really
explain its value as a tradable instrument. After all, plenty of people sell
Bitcoin and happily send the money to their bank.
------
arisAlexis
1 store of value 2 new economic shift 3 blockchain revolution
------
rurban
China
------
johansch
Russian/chinese money laundering.
~~~
Top19
Just out of curiosity and because I’ve become so jaded with what constitutes
upvotes on HN, I scrolled to the bottom to see the most downvoted comment.
It seems like yours, which is funny because I completely agree with you.
The front page of the Wall Street Journal today was very clear, 80% of
investors in Bitcoin are from Asia.
------
angel_j
Snowden
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Adobe Flash Vulnerabilities Make Up 8 of the Top Security Exploits - werencole
http://arc.applause.com/2015/11/10/popular-flash-vulnerabilities-in-exploit-kits/
======
werencole
We all know Flash is insecure. But the breadth is a bit surprising.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Lodge: HTTP-to-Syslog Proxy w/node.js - claylo
http://www.loggly.com/2010/09/http-to-syslog-proxy-with-node-js/
======
Kripto
Totally awesome!
------
lllegrand
Way to go Kord!
~~~
kordless
Thanks dude. Maybe you can log stuff out of that robot of yours:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyl3ABJMRv4>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
This is why software sucks - zdw
http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/this-is-why-software-sucks
======
georgemcbay
Another reason software sucks is that developers are sometimes so incredibly
bad at communicating their ideas (which impacts documentation, development
planning (especially in the age of distributed open source projects), and even
code quality [in terms of naming, commenting, etc]).
"I don’t have much involvement in portable, but I definitely had a hand in
neutering the RAND and egd interfaces. Contrary to some commentary, we didn’t
neuter these interfaces because we didn’t know what they were. We neutered
them because we know precisely what they are. They’re fucking stupid."
uh... okay; thanks for the enlightenment.
I'm sure this post makes more sense to people who are intimately familiar with
whatever it is that is being talked about in the first place, but to the rest
of us it might as well be written in Klingon.
~~~
yellowapple
Having read the various slides on why libressl is deemed necessary, it makes
quite a bit of sense. A large chunk of OpenSSL's API has no business existing
in the first place, let alone in a public scope, because said chunk consists
mostly of redundant and half-baked implementations of things that exist in the
operating system and/or external libraries.
OpenSSL took a rather strange approach of "hey, $some_obscure_operating_system
doesn't provide $some_critical_system_function, so let's implement it
ourselves and _activate it for every single platform that OpenSSL is used on
regardless of whether or not there 's an existing equivalent_". In many cases,
these sorts of shenanigans are the source of various bugs or - just as
horribly - the reason why so many bugs had been undetectable via stricter
memory access requirements and debugging techniques (the latter being what's
referred to when the phrase "exploit mitigation countermeasure" is used in the
context of OpenSSL).
Ted could probably be a bit more helpful by providing a link to the "fucking
stupid[ity]" that is OpenSSL's bass-ackwards API, but most of this is already
explained in prior announcements about libressl's improvements/development and
such, so it's understandable why he didn't feel the need to provide links for
context.
------
davidw
> Do you want software to stop being shit? Then stop expecting... nay, stop
> demanding that software be shit.
As I've written before, it's almost _entirely_ about the economics of it. For
tons of software out there, there is simply no incentive to make it super
stable, polished, secure, etc.
In other words: let's say you're building a web app for a small local
business. Are you going to build it in Erlang, run it on several physical
machines and do all the other fault-tollerant, high-availability stuff, or are
you going to put together some pieces of Rails or PHP or Django and call it
'pretty good'? You're going to do the latter, because otherwise you're going
to cost a _lot_ more than the competition, deliver less, and in any case the
guy running the business is going to be understanding if you need to take the
site down for an hour on Sunday morning to upgrade something once in a while.
So far, so good. Security is a bit more problematic, because there can be some
pretty serious financial ramifications. The trick is to get the people who
bear those risks to pay some of what it costs to produce better software,
which is not always easy in the case of open source.
~~~
_delirium
I've long thought that the different liability regime is a big part of that.
In just about any business that is not software, it's much harder for a
commercial vendor to _completely_ disclaim all liability via a boilerplate
contract. At the very least some basic liability attaches when you ship a
seriously defective product: if it's not even remotely fit for the advertised
purpose, has failure modes bad enough to be negligent, etc. But the way the
existing doctrines have been applied to the software: 1) are quite deferential
to EULAs; and 2) de-facto raise the bar for "negligence" to something
approaching intentional malfeasance or fraud.
(The economic effects of the different liability regime might be good or bad,
but it's quite striking how doctrines that are well-understood in other areas
are applied so differently to software.)
~~~
davidw
That's a good point, but I still think it's tricky: we're talking about
OpenSSL here. Making contributors liable for defects in open source software
would have some very, very negative effects: we would not even _have_ an
OpenSSL to complain about.
~~~
x0x0
openssl didn't ship to end users; it's the software that goes to end users
that should bear liability
~~~
davidw
That's a pretty much impossible distinction to make.
------
0xdeadbeefbabe
Software sucks because everyone makes mistakes. Even if the developer avoids
mistakes, mistaken users will demand more mistakes which will in turn support
their own "wrong wrong wrong" or "software sucks" narrative.
Anyone have a less horrific take?
~~~
VLM
"on the other hand we have people demanding that we maintain every last
misfeature piece of shit function in that API."
AKA I'd like you to sprinkle magic security dust on the code so I can check
off "secure" on my checklist, but don't actually change anything.
------
personZ
I don't even really understand what this is saying. Is it a critique that
LibreSSL faces undue criticism?
This is one of those "Live by the sword, die by the sword" things: LibreSSL
was birthed, it seems to me, as an opportunistic venture to take the meager
funding and attention away from OpenSSL during its time of crisis, sold on the
premise that OpenSSL is a festering heap maintained by a bunch of hacks, and
now it's time for the big boys to show how it should be done.
When you start like that, you _will_ face an incredible amount of scrutiny.
Every failure will be exaggerated and spread far and wide.
Expect to die by the sword. Or to use another cliche, when you throw rocks at
your neighbor's glass house, you should avoid building your own of the same.
~~~
clarry
_> LibreSSL was birthed, it seems to me, as an opportunistic venture to take
the meager funding and attention away from OpenSSL_
How do people come up with bullshit like this? You try to make the free
software project look like an obnoxious enterprise that would exploit a time
of uncertainty to show off and bolster their status, for revenue.
The reality is that they realized a critical component of their security-
focused project is broken and needs fixing, urgently. So they started working
on it. That is _what they do._ All the attention was generated by media and
citizen of the Internet. At the time, I don't think anyone was talking about
funding. Definitely not about the funding of OpenSSL.
Then people started demanding portability. Other people wanted to support the
project just because. Or because they came to realize (or already knew) that
OpenSSL had serious issues. At the time, no funding was being directed at
fixing these issues.
~~~
personZ
_You try to make the free software project look like an obnoxious enterprise
that would exploit a time of uncertainty to show off and bolster their status,
for revenue._
During the wide media exposure of OpenSSL's heartbleed vulnerability, Theo
quite cleverly forked off LibreSSL, started a campaign for funding, and
aggressively and viciously attacked the existing codebase.
[http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2014/04/openss...](http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2014/04/openssl-code-beyond-repair-claims-creator-of-libressl-
fork/)
Yes, it absolutely appears to be exploiting uncertainty for their own benefit.
Both in exposure and status ("I'm here to save the day"), but also in funding.
Theo, and I assume others, are paid by such funding, so it isn't quite so
benevolent.
Sticking "free software" in the description doesn't suddenly remove all normal
human motivations.
~~~
Aqueous
Yep - they could have just easily acted like team players instead of egoistic
contrarians and joined efforts with the OpenSSL team to help improve OpenSSL
along with the original developers. If they did that you'd probably see a lot
less criticism today. Instead, they chose to be assholes - and this is their
come-uppance.
Nothing says "This codebase is beyond repair" quite like forking a codebase
and repairing it.
~~~
vezzy-fnord
Acting like a team player doesn't get shit done. That's not how human
relations in free software development work. The improvements of OpenSSL that
the LibreSSL team envisioned required such massive code overhauls and deletion
of legacy functionality, plus certain modules for FIPS support that were
detrimental to security, that there was likely no way to do it all upstream.
------
andyzweb
here is some software that sucks less:
[http://suckless.org/](http://suckless.org/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Leaked documents point to cooperative European surveillance program - drone
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2013/1102/Europe-spies-too-Leaked-documents-point-to-cooperative-surveillance-program
======
cnahr
Here's the original Guardian report: [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-
news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-s...](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-
news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden)
Completely unsurprising, except for the sheer amount of hypocrisy of European
governments who pretended to be shocked at the American reveals.
~~~
crbnw00ts
I called it recently:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6564469](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6564469)
and of course the reaction was denial & vitriol.
It bears repeating: the world's governments can be divided into exactly two
groups -- those that are monitoring the internet, and those that are trying
to. Vigilance must be applied to _all_ of them, not just some.
~~~
pcrh
I don't think anyone is surprised that governments monitor the internet in
some way, and would target individuals or organizations under suspicion. They
would also cooperate with each other, see for example Interpol. The issue is
collecting and storing information on the private actions of individuals for
whom there is no reason to suspect an involvement in anything criminal.
~~~
drone
Where in any of these articles does it state that they were expressly not
storing information on the private actions of individuals for whom there is no
reason to suspect an involvement in anything criminal?
~~~
pcrh
>expressly not storing information
I'm not sure what you mean? It is now widely recognized that intelligence
services were storing information on people who were not under any suspicion.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What do you think of the Dart language? - maremmano
I don't often see submissions related to this language with the exception of a few posts about FLUTTER. I am starting to use it now and would like to have a general opinion about the language. Especially if you have previous experience with similar more established languages.<p>Thank you very much for your help.
======
austincheney
Dart is OOP and class based. That makes not want to spend time with it. I am
not a fan of class based applications.
~~~
colesantiago
why?
~~~
austincheney
Complexity.
[https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-
Easy/](https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/)
The goal of class based OOP is extension. When something is extended you then
have the original and an extended derivative. What was one is now two, or
more. That might be easy, but it certainly is complex. Complexity is to make
many.
I prefer simplicity and predictability.
~~~
non-entity
I take it you're unemployed then?
~~~
austincheney
I’ve never had trouble finding work as a senior software engineer, but
currently I’ve managed to escape the nonsense.
I have found from working in Java heavy industries that people most reliant on
OOP tend be school educated developers with little or no capacity for self
education. These tend to be the developers most concerned with job security.
Very few (almost none) self-taught developers I’ve known openly embrace OOP as
their preferred paradigm.
High insecurity among software developers is why I’ve grown to dislike writing
software in the corporate world and why I was happy to accept a management
opportunity doing something unrelated.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hacker Scripts - progval
https://github.com/NARKOZ/hacker-scripts
======
ogig
The kumar script is inspiring.
------
zlatan_todoric
I LOLed on this story probably a bit too much. Also I am wondering if we are
so much entangled in modern vision how we should work that we actually can
make scripts for all people that we encounter in our lives. Suddenly people
aren't anymore challenge but scripts! :)
~~~
TeMPOraL
I think we could script a lot of human interactions. Every now and then I
actually try :). It's surprising how good sending randomly picked strings
works if the other side doesn't suspect it, though being in script author's
shoes, I'd add some variation - i.e. I'd repeat every reason in the array
several times with different punctuation, or even do something like:
"$RANDOM_ILL_BE_LATE, $RANDOM_REASON $RANDOM_SMILE $RANDOM_ENDING_PHRASE
$RANDOM_EMOTICON." You get a combinatorial explosion of possible message
strings, making it less likely the recipient will figure out it's scripted.
A different thing I actually semi-scripted once was starting random small-talk
with people over IM (back when I was younger). I just never could get myself
to write "hey, what's up?" to someone and many people thus thought I'm cold to
them, or something. So in order to keep my relations with people from college
friendly, I basically listed everyone I had contact with, assigned them some
calendar reminder periods of time depending on how much I cared about the
relationship, and obliged myself to chat up a person if their "date" came up
in my morning reminders. The periods of time were picked up to be not
divisible by 7, 29, 30 and 31, so that over time they'd land on different days
of the month and the week. The messages I wrote myself; only the reminders
were the "scripted" part.
I used this system for some time. End results:
a) it helped me maintain some relationships
b) it did not help me develop a chit-chatting habit, but it did lower my
inhibition to initiating conversations
c) eventually me and most of my friends graduated and now no-one is chatting
up anyone just to ask how they are...
~~~
thomasahle
I'm wondering if that many combinations would actually make it more realistic.
It seems to me that non scripting people, who have to send the same message
regularly, wouldn't include a lot of variation. Except perhaps the accidental
punctuation as you write.
~~~
TeMPOraL
Accidental punctuation and slight variations are the key IMO. You don't go too
poetic, you just set up thinks like $GOODBYE = ["bye", "cu", "goodbye"],
$ENDING_SMILE = [":)", ";)", ";]"] and $ENDING_PUNCTUATION = [".", "!", ""],
and suddenly you have 3 _3_ 3 = 27 slightly different messages. Append to two
main parts with two variations each, and you're over 100 messages to pick
from. If the recipient then sees your texts side by side, they won't notice
it's automated.
------
anotherevan
Geeks and repetitive tasks
[https://plus.google.com/+BrunoOliveira/posts/MGxauXypb1Y](https://plus.google.com/+BrunoOliveira/posts/MGxauXypb1Y)
------
osxrand
Is there any reason to check for saturday / sunday in the scripts instead of
just doing that via cron (or launchd)?
------
reimertz
This is awesome!
------
j4kp07
"The dude was literally living inside the terminal."
When you embellish your stories and miss key concepts such as hyperbole, I'm
less likely to believe it and/or even read it.
~~~
anotherevan
“You know what happened last month, without anybody noticing? Webster’s
Dictionary expanded the definition of the word ‘literally’ to include the way
it is commonly misused. So the thing is, we no longer have a word in the
English language that means literally, I mean literally doesn’t have a
synonym. So we’re going to have to find a Latin word for it and use it, but I
don’t know any Latin. So when I say I am literally going to set fire to this
building with you in it before I hand over the keys to it, you don’t know if
I’m speaking figuratively or literally.” — The Newsroom, “Run” by Aaron Sorkin
~~~
TeMPOraL
There's _literally_ more than one XKCD strip relevant to this topic!
[https://xkcd.com/725/](https://xkcd.com/725/)
[https://xkcd.com/1108/](https://xkcd.com/1108/)
~~~
PascLeRasc
Another relevant one!
[https://xkcd.com/1576/](https://xkcd.com/1576/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why is this username different on HN? - akhilrex
http://imgur.com/m8H13
======
dclaysmith
New users are shown in green.
~~~
jcr
Similarly, these links are also helpful to see new user activity:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/noobcomments>
<http://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Colordrop 2 – advanced color analysis app - penguingeorge
https://getcolordrop.com
======
penguingeorge
Hi HN, I'm the developer of Colordrop - an advanced color analysis app for
iOS. The app originally launched in 2015, and was featured with the launch of
the App Watch. Colordrop 2 is a completely redesigned version, and offers more
features for creative professionals.
Unlike similar color picker apps, Colordrop provides integration with Adobe
Creative Cloud, and provides the most detailed color information compared to
any other app. You can view values for over 10 different color spaces, as well
as similar colors from palettes such as RAL and Material Design.
The app also has an accessibility focus, featuring a WCAG contrast checker, as
well as a color blindness simulator.
Take a look and let me know what you think!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Candor returns - indutny
http://blog.indutny.com/2.candor-returns
======
ggchappell
Sounds interesting. I wonder if you could explain this better:
> No default runtime
> Candor has no default APIs that are doing 'high-level' things with objects
> and arrays. These routines should be implemented by embedder (like
> candor.io).
> Removing runtime from VM is good in terms of support, less dependencies -
> less things to care about, and leaving things out of the core keeps it
> compact.
Are you saying there is no standard library? And what does "embedder" mean in
this context?
~~~
indutny
Javascript has standard runtime, that you can use in both browser and node.js
(and any other place), which includes Array.forEach and all other high-level
stuff. Candor doesn't have this, and thus there're no need to maintain it.
Embedder is a project that's using VM to add scripting. In case of javascript,
embedder is node.js, browser or even couchdb. In case of Candor - it's a
candor.io (so far).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Convert any link(mostly blog articles) to a discussion thread - hackersway
I am working on a small service where you can convert any blog link to a discussion thread and share annotations and comments etc. any thoughts, comments ?
======
brudgers
If the service follows the link, fetches content, and redisplays that content
then it will be easy for the rights holders for that content to make copyright
infringement claims...notice how HN only hosts the location of the content not
the content itself?
It's also simpler to just link. Good luck.
------
tohmasch
Is there a current landing page?
-Twitter sign in
-Anonymous commenting
-Further sharing
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How We'll Power The U.S. In 2035 - spidaman
http://www.fastcompany.com/1750005/what-will-our-energy-future-look-like
======
1053r
Anyone who thinks that solar will only double in install base by 2035 hasn't
been paying attention. If it is, as the article says, up to 2% now, then by
2035 it should be up to a very large percentage of our current output.
The total amount of solar installed grew by 100% in 2010
[http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/14/us-energy-solar-
id...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/14/us-energy-solar-
idUSTRE71D4WJ20110214)
The historical rate of growth for solar has been more like 33%.
[http://solarisforever.com/category/compound-average-
growth-r...](http://solarisforever.com/category/compound-average-growth-rate/)
Therefore, one has to ask, what is going to change? There are billions of
dollars invested in scaling as quickly as possible. Are we going to run out of
silicon? Unlikely. Are we going to run out of rare earths? Nope. Are we going
to run out of space or demand? Perhaps, but not for a long time. I'll leave it
as an exercise to the reader to google for the sources to back those
statements up so that I can make my ultimate point in a reasonable amount of
text.
33% growth is doubling in a bit over 2 years. 10 doublings is a factor of
1024. So it is pretty reasonable to think that solar output will be well over
100% of our current output by 2035, and perhaps as much as 2000%.
~~~
r00fus
Solar isn't a baseload power supply so it can't replace other fuel sources
(nuclear, coal) without serious improvement in batteries or an electric car
revolution with V2G (vehicle to grid) support.
However, wind and solar while not baseload will be critical to our
infrastructure and ability to deal with power spikes. Much like hybrid cars
today, making a fossil-fuel generator that is specced to your high end of
demand is inefficient; you can get by with a lower baseload and very powerful
"on-demand" power (solar/wind+batteries).
------
joejohnson
That first graph is almost pointless, I think. The energy densities of the
different fuels being compared are vastly different. Therefore, measuring them
against each other by mass is irrelevant.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
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