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186 | Questions of the form "analyze this and determine the rule"
I am assuming that the status quo is that puzzle-type questions are off-topic.
In my opinion, looking at data from an existing language (natural or constructed) and attempting to determine the rule that describes the data is a good source of inspiration and an interesting sort of puzzle.
I would enjoy trying to solve puzzles like this if they were acceptable to post here, and I'm wondering if others would too.
With that in mind, is it acceptable to post linguistics puzzles of sorts using a natural or constructed language and ask others to determine what the rule is?
For instance, here's a puzzle that involves working out, based on some given data, how Yaqui word order works
https://lingclub.mycpanel.princeton.edu/challenge/yaqui.php
The prototypical example I am thinking of would involve guessing a rule rather than completing a puzzle by matching stuff.
For instance, the following Khoekhoe data might make / might have made an interesting puzzle since using pronouns as nominalizers is a) unusual and b) extremely consistent and elegant.
I'm not thrilled about referencing my own answer, I'll edit this question with other examples from other users when I find some.
1a) saa=ts ge ra |khii
you=2ms DECL TAM come
You (m) are coming.
1b) om=s ge (a) kai
house=3fs DECL TAM big
The house is big.
1c) saa=ts ge (a) gao-ao
you=2ms DECL TAM king
You are a king.
1d) saa=ts ge (a) Petru
you=2ms DECL TAM Peter.
You are Peter.
1e) om=s ge (a) nee.
house=3fs DECL TAM this
The house is this one.
1f) tii=ta ge (a) saa
I=1sg DECL TAM you
I am you.
1g) tara=di ge a !nona
women=3fp DECL TAM three
The women are three.
1h) om=s ge a tii
house=3fs DECL TAM mine
The house is mine.
Link to original source and my answer citing it.
Some arguments against permitting this type of question, off the top of my head:
It has no value to anyone other than the question asker.
It might flood the site if permitted.
It's logistically annoying.
Linguistic puzzles should be on-topic at [puzzling.se] I think.
@curiousdannii I'm undeleting this because I appreciate your answer. Please feel free to promote the comment to an answer.
While puzzle type questions of this sort would work great in a more discussion oriented forum (Conlang-L, CBB, perhaps Reddit), SE works on a different model in that it is not geared towards this kind of question type.
According to SE itself: We build libraries of high-quality questions and answers, focused on each community's area of expertise. You note yourself that this kind of question is logistically annoying and really only of value to the querent.
SE also says: Get answers to practical, detailed questions. And C.SE specifically says: Focus on questions about an actual problem you have faced. Include details about what you have tried and exactly what you are trying to do. You could ask about the essential details of the puzzle, just not in a puzzle format. I think we kind of expect that you are either working on an invented language of your own, are learning another's, or else are simply interested in invented languages. Questions should therefore stem largely from your own work on your own language or on how other invented languages function.
Lastly: Not all questions work well in our format. Avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based, or that are likely to generate discussion rather than answers. Puzzles are bound to create chit-chat, multiple opinions, discussions, and digressions; all of which are off-topic here.
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182 | Should we allow rhetorical questions?
The question Might more conlangers like writing in knots? is well-researched and interesting, but by the author's own admission isn't really a question that requires an answer. Do we want to allow this sort of rhetorical question on Constructed Languages SE?
I agree that this question is ill-posed as it stands, but I also think that it is salvageable. It can be reformulated, e.g., in the following way:
Q: What are resources for conlangers designing a knot writing?
(Add a little of explanation to the question title, e.g., the first paragraph of the original question, and repeat the question.)
A: (Everything starting from "I made one such conscript")
Self-answering ones own question is 100% OK, as long as question and answer contribute something to this site. And more answers may come in.
| Stack Exchange | 2025-03-21T13:24:21.595294 | 2020-07-01T19:11:36 | {
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209 | Why is this site so inactive?
I have noticed a lot of inactivity here; there are next to no questions being answered or asked. Why is that? What can we as the members of the site do to change that?
While it is surely true that this community is not very active, the amount of unanswered questions is pretty low (less than 5%) and no reason to worry. Answers, especially good answers, take some time, so have a little bit of patience with the community.
P.S. You may also think of other means to elicit more and faster answers, like promoting your questions on other social media, or offering a bounty.
This is a personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
I think there are a few reasons for this, in no particular order:
Making or studying constructed languages is not a common hobby.
I'm pretty sure that most conlang enthusiasts enjoy sharing and getting feedback on their own creations, and Stack Exchange Q&A is not a good format for this.
There isn't a standard way to get into the hobby and there isn't a common core of knowledge that everyone is supposed to know.
Also, peoples' interest might be narrower than the scope of the site as a whole. For example, I'm interested in things that make learning an auxlang as a second language easy or difficult and less interested in conlangs tied to a specific work of fiction.
There's also another perspective to consider. The question quality on this site is fairly high. Relaxing some of the restrictions inherited from Stack Exchange might increase traffic, but it would also change the character of the site.
I would note that reducing expectations of quality is a non-starter, simply because this is SE. Each forum represents SE as a whole within its broader community, and since SE itself seeks to be THE high quality Q&A site, it follows that all forums will strive for high quality. Essentially, high quality & low activity is better than low quality & high activity.
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223 | Why is it written "art" in our site logo?
I'm new here. I saw the site's logo and it is written "art". Why not "CL" for example which is the acronym of Constructed Languages? What does the scope of this site have to do with art anyway?
In other websites that don't have an actual logo like this, there is a related phrase. For example, Politics SE has a Po, Astronomy SE has an A, etc.
Shouldn't our logo get fixed?
I first wanted to take a screensot of main site, but I forgot! :/
Every time I edit the post to add a hi/hello before "I'm new here" it doesn't add! :/
I don't know the motivations behind that choice, but art hints at artificial languages which is more or less synonymous to constructed languages. Maybe the Stackexchange team wanted to avoid some unpleasant connotations, e.g., con would remind some people to con artist and cl is much more frequently translated to computation linguistics or something else than to constructed languages
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79 | Accepting Nominations — Who should Moderate this site?
Ideally, Moderators♦ are elected by the community, but until the community is large enough to hold a proper election, we will be appointing three provisional Moderators to fill those roles.
We need your help. Please nominate folks you would like to see become provisional moderators for this site. Your input will provide valuable insight to help us make our selections. You can read more about the process here: Moderators Pro Tempore.
The Nomination Process:
Nominate a user by posting an 'answer' below. Each nomination should be a separate answer. Use the template at the bottom of this post to complete your nomination.
Self nominations are encouraged. This is a volunteer activity, so users should not feel obligated to accept these positions. A self-nomination is simply a way to say, "I am very much interested in this, so let my record speak for itself."
Tell us about the candidates. Nominations can include links to other activities like Area 51 participation, participation in other sites, or any relevant thoughts/links that may help us make an informed decision.
Nominees! Please indicate your acceptance by editing the answer to accept/decline the nomination. And please ensure your profile email is correct so we can contact you. Optionally, you are encouraged to write a bit about yourself following your acceptance.
I accept/decline this nomination.
Hi, I am name/location/fun fact (all optional). I live in <location>, so I am generally active on this site from <time> to <time>. Some other things you may want to know about me are…
Here is what we'll be looking for in a Moderator candidate:
We are looking for members who are deeply engaged in the community's development; members who:
Have been consistently active during the earliest weeks of this site's creation
Show an interest in their meta's community-building activities
Lead by example, showing patience and respect for their fellow community members in everything they write
Exhibit those intangible traits discussed in A Theory of Moderation
Nomination Template
To nominate a candidate, copy and paste the text below as an answer and complete your nomination writeup:
<a href="https://conlang.stackexchange.com/users/UserID">
<img src="https://conlang.stackexchange.com/users/flair/UserID.png"></a>
<a href="https://conlang.meta.stackexchange.com/users/UserID">
<img src="https://conlang.meta.stackexchange.com/users/flair/UserID.png"></a>
###Notes:
This nominee would be a good choice because …
Notes:
I am also self-nominating.
I have a linguistics degree and relatively extensive, in-depth experience into formal semantics, pragmatics, social meaning, affective content, and information structure -- all areas of linguistics that are very useful to conlangers but often overlooked in other sites for conlangers. I have contributed and will continue to contribute detailed self-answers to provide this information to the members of the StackExchange. I also am in academia, so as I continue to actively participate in and consume linguistic literature, I can share relevant information from that literature with this community.
I have contributed high quality content to the StackExchange, and though I did not participate during the first two weeks of the private beta for irl personal reasons, I have provided prompt answers (often first answers) to many questions. I have done a very good job digging up sources on the web and in linguistic literature for my answers as well. My answers have typically been very detailed. While I am relatively new to StackExchange as a whole and only began participating in this private beta rather recently, I have a passion for linguistics and conlanging and have worked hard to find answers for questions that have been neglected. I also have made small edits to questions and titles to improve answerability and have weighed in on opening and closing threads. I have also participated in meta discussions. I have enthusiasm about this site and a level head.
I am known by my friends and by those in other online communities I spend time in as "chill" and "mellow about drama" -- while I am good at listening to others complaints and hearing them out, I don't overreact to trolling and insults, and I only take action when truly necessary. However, when it is clear action needs to be taken, I do not hesitate. I am decisive, firm, and fair.
Obviously, I accept this nomination.
I live in Ohio (USA) and am generally active from 5:00pm to 1:00am EST (that's 22:00--6:00 GMT).
Are you serious? You are (with your account) no longer than 24 days on the stackexchange network and don't seem to have gathered a lot of experience. This self-nomination is your first post on this meta as well. Hmmm....
@jknappen This is not my first post on this meta. I won't claim I've been particularly active, but a quick look at my (linked) profile will show this is not my first post. I admitted to being relatively new to StackExchange. I self-nominated because I am enthusiastic about this site and about conlanging. I'm all for it if they choose moderators with more experience, but I'm not taking away from more experienced candidates by throwing my hat in the ring. If you prefer other candidates, upvote or nominate them. I'm not sure what your comment is intended to accomplish besides insult me.
I upvoted this nomination. Even if you don't know the SE system inside out at this point, subject matter expertise is a good thing to have on a mod team as well.
I first started as a mod after only a short time on the network (a bit longer than this, but not by a huge amount). Network experience is always great, but commitment to a young site is also important. I think Sparksbet has led by example in their posts on the main site, and I'd definitely support this nomination.
Hi, I attempted to reach out to you via email last week but never received a response. Could you see if you received the message or if perhaps it's in a spam folder somewhere?
@animuson I'm so sorry! It did get caught in a spam filter -- I'll respond as soon as possible.
Notes:
I am self-nominating.
I am a moderator on /r/conlangs as well as an experienced conlanger. I have been active on the SE since the beginning, doing my duties with cleaning up queues and what not (though in the past week or so there wasn’t much to do and I haven’t quite settled back into school life yet, hence my lack of recent activity).
While I am not very familiar with StackExchange per se, I have read through all the relevant guidelines I am aware of. I hope to be able to shape this site in a positive direction (which I believe may have to deviate a bit from the usual stackexchange standard due to conlanging being such a creative field). As a moderator on the largest conlanging forum there is (the aforementioned subreddit), I am aware of the janitorial roles a moderator has to fulfill, but I do not mind them if they in turn give me the possibility to shape the community in a positive way.
My apologies for the late entry.
Hi, I attempted to reach out to you via email last week but never received a response. Could you see if you received the message or if perhaps it's in a spam folder somewhere?
@animuson Hi, this indeed is the case. I wrote a response just now.
@animuson It's strange that your mails are caught by spam filters. ;-)
Notes:
I'll self nominate.
I'm Dannii. I have a linguistics degree, and thought I might be able to help people on this site through explaining linguistic concepts and pointing to natlang examples. I had actually only committed to the site on Area51 about a week before the beta started, and didn't expect that I would find the whole thing so interesting. It's always great to find something new that fascinates you!
I'm not a moderator on any other site in the network, but I am a strong believer in community moderation, and am a top editor and reviewer on many sites. In our short time as a private beta here I've become a one of the top editors, Meta participants, and users by rep. I'd be honoured to be selected as a pro-tem moderator.
Dannii has been active on this site since day 1, and has taken an active role in the self-moderation of the site. I think he'd be a good choice.
@Mithrandir Fun fact, due to time zones and sleep, I actually only joined the site on the second day :P
Notes:
Zyerah is a current pro-tem mod on Literature SE and former mod (both pro-tem and elected) on Puzzling SE. I've known her as a moderator for many years, and never seen her lose their head, even when moderating very difficult situations. Her moderation is firm but fair - she will criticise people when necessary, but always in as kind a way as possible, and she doesn't hold grudges.
She's also been active on both ConLang SE and its meta, and she seems to share the same enthusiasm for and knowledge about this topic as the topics of puzzling and literature.
Accepted:
Zyerah's response:
Thank you sincerely for the nomination - it means a lot to me. I would be happy to moderate if I am called to the position. It may be important for voters, and SE, to know that I may not have a whole lot of time soon, and may not be able to play as active a hand in site development as an early beta needs. I haven't been able to participate on site much recently, either. That being said, this is a fairly quiet beta, and it's hard to imagine pressing issues being common. I might reconsider, but I will hesitantly accept.
I moderate alongside Zyerah, and she has proven herself to be reasonable, capable, and an excellent moderator. We've been working together for a year now, and I'm honored to be working alongside her.
I think being a current mod and former mod here will be good to have moderating this site.
Notes:
I'll throw my hat in the ring.
I'd be interested in becoming a mod here on ConLang.SE. I've been following the site since the Area 51 stage, and I was relatively active in attempting to get it off the ground (and succeeded in referring 9 users to commit). Once it got off the ground, I participated in the private beta, contributing posts, comments, reviews, and whatnot.
I have experience with the SE system, having been active on SE since 2014, the flagging system, having raised 10k+ helpful flags network-wide, and with the moderator tools, having been a moderator on Literature.SE for the past year.
I'd be interested in helping moderate this site, and I hope my record will speak for itself.
Three downvotes on this self nomination... if anyone has concerns about Mirthrandir it would be good to actually voice them.
I second this. Mithrandir is an awesome mod on literature and an active contributor on this site--and he's obviously enthusastic to become a moderator.
I nominate Gufferdk.
Solid knowledgeable user, pretty good posts, would be a good moderator if he/she can keep this level altogether with the tools. And, of course, if he/she wants/can do it.
Accepted:
I happily accept this nomination, and I'm happy someone would take the effort to nominate me. I had considered nominating myself but decided against it due to some social anxiety, but seeing as there is support from at least some of the community, to the point where they will nominate me changes things.
@curiousdannii re:meta participation, I've looked at it and voted on some things, but there haven't been a much by way of posts where an answer already posted didn't already cover more or less what I wanted to say on the issue.
I know guffer from other communities, he’s both knowledgable and very keen to help out. He’s one of the most active posters on /r/conlangs’ small discussions thread, i.e. the place where all the “beginner questions” go.
I happily accept this nomination, and I'm happy someone would take the effort to nominate me. I had considered nominating myself but decided against it due to some social anxiety, but seeing as there is support from at least some of the community, to the point where they will nominate me changes things.
@curiousdannii re:meta participation, I've looked at it and voted on some things, but there haven't been a much by way of posts where an answer already posted didn't already cover more or less what I wanted to say on the issue.
DECLINED
Notes:
This nominee would be a good choice because he is already a moderator on Worldbuilding.se, which is another site where a balance between creativity and the question & answer format needs to be maintained.
HDE also moderates Interpersonal Skills, History of Science and Mathematics, and Mythology, in addition to Worldbuilding, and has proven themselves to be a capable and responsible moderator.
I appreciate this, but for now, I'll have to decline. I moderate four sites already, which is . . . a bit much; also, I so far haven't given Constructed Languages the attention I wish I could have. Unless we don't get three good nominations here - and I think we will - I'll decline the nomination. Thanks.
I'm downvoting this not because I think he'd be bad at the job (quite the opposite) but only because he's declined - let the top answers be people who are actually happy to step up.
I think there is no need for further downvotes, the purpose of them is already fulfilled.
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95 | Chatting in conlangs
Related: Are questions asked in conlangs accepted on this site?
I thought, as this is a site about languages, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a separate chatroom for talking in conlangs. Well, I didn't create one yet. I thought that I should first ask here.
Is it ok to talk in conlangs in the main chatroom? Is there even a need for the separate room?
Should there be a single chatroom for this or rather one room per language?
Does it make sense to create such room?
<<qatlhbe'?>> ;-) (Joke in Klingon: it asks "Why not?")
Few people are very proficient in many conlangs, especially if you exclude Esperanto which I assume already has chat rooms. Anyone can make chat rooms if they want, so go ahead, but I wouldn't expect it to be all that well populated considering the size of the site.
As for the main chat room, I'd say no, keep that to English.
I think chat in an invented language ought to be encouraged; but as curiousdannii says, keep the main chatroom in English.
Caveat:
It is also common courtesy to provide, at the least, a translation of what's being said for the benefit of everyone else who doesn't know the language being used.
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6 | What should our main site chatroom be called?
Every Stack Exchange site has at least one chatroom associated to it. The primary chatroom for the site usually has an interesting name which is somehow evocative of the topic of that site: for instance, the h Bar at Physics, the Sphinx's Lair at Puzzling, The Screening Room at Movies & TV.
What should we call the main chatroom for Constructed Languages SE?
Babel
or the tower thereof.
Babel is about diversity in natural languages, it has no conlang appeal to me.
Btw. The Conlang Flag represents the Tower of Babel against a rising sun.
I am okay with this idea. But I have one concern: Babel gives me a sense of confusion.
Perhaps a variation on this like "Rebuilding Babel" could indicate the conlang specificity...
Xenoglossia Speech Center
Taken from the word xenoglossy.
Xenoglossy, also written xenoglossia, sometimes also known as xenolalia, is the putative paranormal phenomenon in which a person is able to speak or write a language he or she could not have acquired by natural means. The words derive from Greek ξένος (xenos), "foreigner" and γλῶσσα (glōssa), "tongue" or "language". The term xenoglossy was ostensibly coined by French parapsychologist Charles Richet in 1905. Stories of xenoglossy are found in the Bible, and contemporary claims of xenoglossy have been made by parapsychologists and reincarnation researchers such as Ian Stevenson. There is no scientific evidence that xenoglossy is an actual phenomenon.
Closely related to Xenoglossy is the word glossolia or the gift of tongues!
Glossolalia or speaking in tongues is a phenomenon in which people appear to speak in languages unknown to them. One definition used by linguists is the fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning, in some cases as part of religious practice in which it is believed to be a divine language unknown to the speaker.
Sometimes a distinction is made between "glossolalia" and "xenolalia" or "xenoglossy", which specifically designates when the language being spoken is a natural language previously unknown to the speaker.
The Xenolinguistic Ziggurat
Inspired by the answers from Pikalek and Ken Graham, this name combines the idea of alien languages with the Tower of Babel (a ziggurat).
The Language Art.
(with the dot (.) at the end)
Considerations:
"Art." is a common abbreviation for "artificial";
The unusual order of "art" and "language" is an appeal to the fact that many conlangs, indeed, do have unusual word order;
Creating a language is, indeed, art.
I mean, I like puns but … hmmm …
ˈkɒnlaŋ
As per conlang pronunciation.
One problem with this suggestion: different speakers pronounce the word in different ways. Is it /ˈkɒnlaŋ/? /ˈkɒnleɪŋ/? /ˈkɑnlæŋ/?
The Language Factory
Inspired by Worldbuilding's "The Factory Floor".
Worldbuilding's 'The Factory Floor' is a reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It is a sub-dimension where the Magratheans construct new planets (worlds) to the specifications of their customers. I don't think the reference translates well to languages, especially when changing wording :/
Appendix F
Appendix F is the appendix in the single volume edition of Lord of the Rings that describes the languages of Middle Earth. It also is found at the back of the book and only the most dedicated read the appendices, much like the chat rooms.
It's a bit obscure ... and, also, related only to one family of constructed languages. I was hoping for a chatroom name which isn't specifically Tolkien or specifically Klingon or anything, to convey the idea that everyone is welcome.
I would say being obscure is a pro, not a con. :-) As for conveying that everyone is welcome, it's still generic enough. Physics has h-bar which is a fundamental constant in quantum dynamics, but no one would assume Newtonian mechanics discussions wouldn't be welcome there.
The Dictionary
Because we do languages, get it? :D
tʃæt ɹuːm
Chat room written using the International Phonetic Alphabet.
Note: this may have errors - if you're better at IPA than me, feel free to edit it accordingly. Also, meɪn tʃæt ɹuːm might be more specific..
I like this, but it would be more interesting to maybe spell conlang or artifical languages or something along that line phonetically
Feel free to riff on my suggestion. Maybe ɑː(ɹ)təˈfɪʃəl tʃæt ?
Wouldn't this be a better name for [linguistics.se] chat?
Maybe. Looks like they already have one called lɪŋˈgwɪstɪks.
The Round Table as known in all King Arthur's legends.
As its name suggests, it has no head, implying that everyone who sits there has equal status. The table was first described in 1155 by Wace, who relied on previous depictions of Arthur's fabulous retinue. The symbolism of the Round Table developed over time; by the close of the 12th century it had come to represent the chivalric order associated with Arthur's court, the Knights of the Round Table. - Round Table (Wikipedia).
This give the chat room a sense of nobility!
The room name should really connect the room to the site's topic in some way, though. . .
St Hildegard's
I would frequent a pub with that name.
Bingo!... I mean, Bingen.
The International ConLang Center would be cool to me.
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21 | Is Esperanto on-topic here?
Esperanto is a language constructed by Mr Zamenhof in the 19th century, and actually spoken by around two million people.
It also has its own Stack Exchange site already.
Should questions about Esperanto be on-topic here?
While questions about Esperanto wouldn't be off topic, they'd probably get a better answer on their existing dedicated site.
It's analogous to someone asking about a problem they were having developing a Wordpress plugin on Stack Overflow, when there is a site dedicated to that topic.
You'd get an answer, and probably a good one, on Stack Overflow, but the community on the Wordpress site are dedicated to answering just Wordpress questions and therefore should be able to give you a better answer.
So, I wouldn't explicitly ban questions about Esperanto, but I would point users at the dedicated site instead.
The analogy is a bit misleading because there are questions about problems users have during the development of a plugin that are borderline to be questions for Stack Overflow (for example, a question asking what if (!is_active_sidebar('sidebar-2') && !is_active_sidebar('sidebar-3')) { return; } returns to the calling function).
@kiamlaluno You can apply other analogies as well, such as Code Review questions; some questions asking for code review on SO are on-topic and best asked there, others are off-topic there and on Code Review, others are off-topic there and on-topic at Code Review... it really depends on the question. Likewise there is precedent for this exact situation between IPS.SE and RPG.SE; RPG.SE has explicitly decided they want to be the expert community for IPS questions that relate to playing RPGs (table top, obviously, not digital). So IPS sends those folks to RPG when possible/prudent.
@TylerH Yes, it depends from the question. I am just saying the example used in this answer doesn't make a good analogy. I would rather avoid making an analogy with programming questions, but that is just me, I guess.
Just because another site for a topic exists doesn’t mean a question can’t still be on-topic here. The two sites are intended for two different but partially overlapping audiences. They will have two different general flavours and are likely to produce different sets of answers to the same question.
I imagine the Esperanto site will answer questions about Esperanto from the (spoken) Esperanto point of view: it works this way in this language because A and it doesn’t work that way because C and D.
I imagine this site will answer questions from a more conceptional or comparative direction: it was designed this way because of A and the similarity to X, while using C would have violated the principle D.
I suggest the following guideline:
If the question would be acceptable here after replacing all instances of and references to Esperanto with <insert random other conlang name here>, it should be considered on topic.
If not, it should be closed (but we can point towards the Esperanto site).
If it's a question that would belong on [esperanto.se] rather than here, perhaps it should be migrated (with the agreement of the Esperanto mods), rather than just closed with a "go post there" note.
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1 | Are questions asked in conlangs accepted on this site?
We anticipate conlang specialists on this site, and, most naturally, some of them are familiar with popular conlangs to an extent that they can express fluently and discuss various matters using that languages.
Also, several constructed languages are even more suited for logic and the accurate delivery of the meaning due to their syntactic unambiguity (like Lojban).
Considering the above, do we accept questions asked in (popular) conlangs?
With a few exceptions (mostly about Esperanto, I fear), those questions would attract no answers and no comments. So, what would be the point?
I agree with the "no" answers. However, I think chatrooms for conversation in conlangs would be fine.
No
Stacks are meant as a Q&A resource for people all over the world. Aside from a few exceptions, all stacks are enforcing use of the English language. As English is one of the worlds more important languages and on most school curriculums nowadays, this allows people from everywhere to chip in and excludes almost nobody.
Questions and answers that are composed in a con-language would exclude, I daresay, most users of the stack from reading/understanding them. It would also make it very hard for community moderation to work as most people handling flags, etc. would likely not be fluent in the respective language.
The language learning stacks seem an exception to the above by mostly allowing questions to be posed either in English or the respective language they are dedicated to, but as this is meant as a general conlang stack I do not see that working either.
Yes, this should be allowed
Languages are intended to be answered by experts, and to solve expert problems. If someone is unable to read a post in a language, they really have no business even attempting to answer the question.
When I ask a question on Stack Overflow about a particular framework, I expect only people with expert knowledge in that framework to even read, let alone answer, the question. I don't attempt to say "If I were doing this in regular Java I'd do _____" just so more people can attempt to understand the question.
Such an exercise may help me solve the problem myself, but so would a myriad of other techniques, none of which are required. So yes, if someone wants to ask a question in a particular language, they should feel free to do so. Sites dedicated to specific languages allow this, I see no reason why the same logic shouldn't apply to this site.
It's entirely possible to be knowledgeable in the grammar and mechanics of a language (especially a constructed language) without fluency. Perhaps Ithkuil is an extreme case, but I can say for sure that plenty of experienced Ithkuilists are not able to construct or interpret sentences at any reasonable rate. Even after having several-sentence discussions in Ithkuil, the participants will usually confirm in English that their messages were conveyed accurately.
I don't know of any SE site where posting a program in some specific programming language, with no further explanation in natural language, is considered okay.
@Pseudonym in theory there's the Codereview stack where this seems mostly ok
Another issue with this is the moderation of such posts. If people are unable to read a post in a conlang they're not familiar with, they'll have a hard time determining if it's an answer or not. Additionally, diamond moderators (further down the line), like any other users, won't know the majority of the conlangs used on the site.
@HDE226868 Somehow I anticipate the number of spam messages in Klingon to be quite low. But on SO if someone posts in a programming language with which I'm not familiar, I also often won't be able to tell if it's a reasonable answer or not I don't see a difference here.
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3 | Is the icon for this site supposed to be "art"?
I just noticed that the icon on the tabs for this site say "art," whereas I would have expected something like "clg" or "col" or something like that. Is this intentional, or is it a bug?
I assumed the icon is a short form of artificial languages.
I can I jut say that I came specifically here because it confused me :/ . Like honestly, this seems to be a horribly chosen name... even if it's just "temporary".
art — the ISO 639-5 code for constructed languages and prefix code for conlangs not assigned a code.
ref. List of ISO 639-5 codes
That explains why it's lowercase and not small caps like all the others.
Very artistic. Who gets the credit for that? :-)
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50 | Tag proposal 'Script'
I am proposing the use of a script or writing or anything similar to tag questions that are mainly focused on the script of a language or the analysis thereof.
The need for such a tag formed in my mind when reading this question on the language of the movie 'Arrival'.
What are your thoughts on the subject? Would such a tag make sense or promote unnecessary segregation or hordes of other issues?
Note: If you agree with a proposal you usually upvote it, if you disagree you would downvote it.
We were actually just discussing this in chat. A summary of what was discussed:
Scripts/writing systems need to be distinguished from how specific languages use them
Questions on this site are likely to discuss:
How existing conlangs are written
How to use an existing script for a new conlang
How to create a new script
Possibly all three of these need tags, possibly not.
Possible tags include: writing-systems, orthography, neography (I don't like the last)
There really needs to be a tacit balance between genuine linguistic questions that do not in any way deal with conlanging, and questions about usage in natural languages that do provide some conlanging input. I'm not sure we can ever achieve this balance, nor that we can uncontroversially draw a line between one and the other, but there is and should be a place for questions about how some natural languages use their orthographies.
"but there is and should be a place for questions about how some natural languages use their orthographies" - yep, that place is [linguistics.se].
Questions here need to be explicit about their relevance to conlangs.
A discussion about how East Asian languages use Chinese logographs may be raised in a way that is relevant to conlanging: if someone knowledgeable explains their vital differences, those less knowledgeable might have an easier time devising their own implementation of the script @curiousdannii
I think, there are two things
Generic questions about writing-systems
Specific questions about conscripts, i.e., constructed writing systems. A conscript can also be used for a natural language (like the Shawian alphabet for English).
I am not sure if conscript is a good term
It is at least a somewhat introduced term, see for instance the ConScript Unicode Registry here: http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/
I was just trying to make a humorous statement...
@jknappen It's striking how many of those script names have a K or Z in them!
@curiousdannii One prolific conscripter seems to be very fond of these two letters
@jknappen Oh yeah, I didn't notice most of those were by Herman Miller.
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9 | Do we need both the [klingon] and [klingon-language] tags?
I just got a suggested edit that added the klingon tag to a question where I had included the klingon-language tag. As of right now, klingon has one question in it and klingon-language has two.
These seem... kinda redundant to me; why do we have both? Which should we use primarily?
Does this need a meta post? With so few questions, you could just make edits to uniformise (like I've been editing to remove the [tag:tolkien] tag).
@Randal'Thor - A meta post will determine which is better and which will be kept.
Being a site dedicated to languages, I think the idea of adding language to the end of a tag is unnecessary.
klingon-language should be merged into klingon.
I could see a potential for a tag such as klingon-alphabet, as that's distinct from the language itself, but even that is a stretch and should probably be wrapped under klingon
Obviously we don't need both, since questions about Klingons or Klingon culture excluding language presumably won't be on-topic here.
However, to make it clear that the tag is only about the Klingon language and not anything else to do with Klingons, I suggest using klingon-language as the primary tag name.
(I was going to post an answer supporting [tag:klingon] as the master too, for easier voting, but corsiKa beat me to it.)
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23 | Should questions saying "how do you say [thing] in [conlang]" allowed?
I believe that in Area 51, it was discussed that questions in the format above would not be accepted. Are we still doing that?
Yes, these questions should be allowed.
They're about conlangs; they're perfectly answerable (either by an actual translation or by a demonstration that no such exists); they're the type of question that someone studying conlangs is likely to have, and that an expert in conlangs is likely to be able to answer. They seem to tick all the boxes for what 'should' be on-topic here. What problems could they possibly cause?
To me they're like sprouts. I don't like them myself but I don't see any reason why people who do like them shouldn't be allowed to eat them.
Sprouts are bleh. But I wouldn't want to ban them from vegetables.SE because of that.
-- AE, a wise user on Puzzling SE
... as long as they don't overrun the site.
Answering my own question: a potential problem with questions of this type could be that they start to form a majority of the site's questions, pushing more advanced and hard-to-answer questions out of attention. But unless and until that becomes a problem, I don't think they're causing anyone any harm. They're
like... The cabbage, radishes and shredded carrots that some sushi shops put on the platter before stacking up the meat & rice. They make the plate look nice and full, and they're something to chew on once you've eaten all the meat [...] Like those slivers of carrot, such questions can potentially give answerers something to chew on while they're waiting for the meat... But you still gotta have plenty of meat.
-- Shog9 (in relation to a different discussion, but a point which I think applies well here)
We can judge their quality by voting.
Now I'm not saying that questions like "how to say 'hello' in Sindarin", which can be immediately answered by a quick Google search, should be welcomed with open arms. I just don't think that all translation requests should be banned as a category; some of them are actually hard to answer and require some real expertise in the topic. We can distinguish these two types by voting: downvote easy or poorly researched questions, but upvote those of higher quality.
For the record, Science Fiction and Fantasy has had a largely very positive experience with questions about translations from fictional languages. The relevant meta discussion had a strong unanimous consensus in favour of allowing such questions, and some of them have attracted both very high scores and very interesting and well-thought-out answers.
Obviously, they are by default allowed, I was more about the second point. But yes, you are correct: I was quite worried they'd overrun the site.
I already consider them to be overrunning the site. I also feel like they’re setting a bad precedent. I don’t find them to be absolutely unjustifyable, but as @curiousdannii wrote they should definitely show that their own research has not yielded any results.
I do agree that the site shouldn't be allowed to be spammed up with questions like "how do you say 'carrot' in Esperanto?" and the like that can be answered with a simple Google search or other basic research. However, if there is a reason that a given translation is particularly tricky, I wouldn't consider it off-topic. For example, the toki pona "right/left" issue is apparently interesting enough to cause interminable arguments on Facebook and elsewhere at relatively regular intervals. On the other hand, that also makes it hard to get a solid answer...
I think that most of the language sites don't allow them, and I think that would be wise here. On ELU they're a blight that cannot be expunged.
Even if the community decides they should be allowed, I propose that it is absolutely essential that these questions show their research/work. That means citing dictionaries, both official and unofficial, and showing why the answer can't be found elsewhere.
+1 to this. I don’t mind translation requests that actually require the input of an expert and can’t just be found by searching the right wiki.
Yes.
Even after a translation has been provided, different and potentially better or more accurate translations can still be added by users with further expertise that know more about the language than the current answers have provided.
I believe that a type of question is valuable to this Stack Exchange site if:
It's on-topic based on a very vague definition based on the site name; translations into/from natural languages such as French or German belong to those respective language sites.
It provides content that can help future users with the same problems.
Additionally, since other language Stack Exchange sites such as french.SE, allow translations, I believe that conlangs.SE should do the same.
Please ping me in chat to disagree or suggest improvements to avoid cluttering the comments. If you strongly disagree but have no particular reasons, please downvote this post and move along or upvote a "No" post if/once one is made.
I'd say it depends. If it is just a boring translation request then it should not be allowed. For example How to say "strong woman" in Toki Pona? should be considered off-topic as it is something one can learn from courses and books.
On the other hand, questions requesting translation in a specific (cultural?) context should be on-topic. For example How would you say “good morning” or “hello” politely in Klingon? is a fine question as it requires extra knowledge about the cultural context of the language to provide a good answer. In this particular case a person posting an answer has to provide an explanation of why their translation of hello is considered polite in Klingon, which gives a much deeper view into the conlang than a similar question asking for a translation of hello to Klingon would give.
Is there a clear line between these two types of question? Personally I think it's a distinction that can be drawn by voting: DV your first example, UV the second, but don't deem either "off-topic". (By the way, sometimes voting is very skewed in the private beta stage, so don't draw too many conclusions from how questions like this have been voted on so far :-) )
@Randal'Thor I'd say that we should upvote a question if it asks about something you cannot easily derive from a grammar book and a dictionary. :)
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39 | Are alphabet questions off-topic?
Stack sites consider any opinion-based questions as off topic since they have no direct answer. With conlangs, there will be a lot of people creating their own alphabets who may ask questions on this site that are on the line between objective and subjective. Where should we draw the line on what's on or off topic?
For example, "How can I create letters for my conlang?" is obviously subjective, while "What is the best proportion of vowels to consonants?" can be answered through the analysis of existing languages. Things such as "What's the minimum (sensible) number of consonants I can have?" are technically answerable, if given enough context of the language itself.
Since SO sites are supposed to primarily be a reference source, and Q+A comes second, should we enforce that questions about the OP's specific conlang be off topic unless related to a more neutral concept? For example, the question "How can I make [word] fit into the theme of my language?" could be reworded as "How can I make new words that follow the same linguistic tone as my existing language?" The second question is more general, and could apply to other languages while still provoking answers of the same type. This would help reduce duplicates... I think
I keep saying this elsewhere but it bears repeating: only the off-topic close reasons are for non-topicity. Unclear, too broad and opinion-based are usually applied to questions that are generally on-topic.
"while "What is the best proportion of vowels to consonants?" can be answered through the analysis of existing languages." No it can't. Statistics can't make judgement calls. Any time a question asks what is "best" it nearly always should be closed with the primarily opinion based close reason. Some, but not all, of those questions can be fairly easily rewritten to ask what would be the most natural option (based on the natural languages), but that is not a goal for all conlangs.
Note that there is a fundamental difference between the phonology of a conlang (such as number of vowels and consonants) and its writing system.
This well-received question was actually asked on worldbuilding:
https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/49385/what-are-some-tips-for-designing-symbols-for-a-constructed-language
and I see no problems with a similar question on this site.
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63 | “Language change” and “diachronics” tags
In linguistics, diachrony refers to the description of a language as it changes through time, as opposed to synchrony, which only looks at one moment in time. One could consider diachrony the study of language change (overlapping or even synonymous with historical linguistics).
The process of taking a language and applying the kinds of changes found in natural languages is commonly done by conlangers and is called diachronic conlanging, or colloquially doing diachronics.
The question has now come up about the appropriate tags. It has been suggested to use diachronics specifically for diachronic conlanging, in contrast with language-change for whatever other questions may come up regarding the natural change of language. Most of these questions would likely be related to diachronic conlanging anyway (basically any question asked here about how certain changes work, what changes are common, whether certain changes are attested… would be asked with diachronic conlanging in mind), but there might be some interesting questions about how conlangs have changed in the hands (or mouths) of actual users, for which language-change might be more appropriate.
Personally, I don’t really see a need to differentiate in the use of these two tags and would consider them synonyms. If we do not wish to consider them synonymous, I’d like to develop good tag descriptions here.
I think it would be best to distinguish these two tags here, even if we don't get many questions on the natural changes of conlangs. I don't mind what the tag names are, let's go with whatever would make the most sense to the conlang community.
Here are the proposed tag wiki edits I made (still pending):
language-change:
Language change refers to the natural changes in a language over time as it is used by its speakers
In both natural languages and constructed languages, language change refers to the natural changes in a language over time as it is used by its speakers. Language change is also referred to as diachrony, and its study is called diachronic analysis.
In conlanging, language change can also be simulated, a process called diachronic conlanging or "doing diachronics". Use this tag for questions about the natural changes to a conlang, and the diachronics tag for the process of simulating change.
diachronics:
Diachronic conlanging refers to the simulation of language change in a conlang
In both natural languages and constructed languages, language change refers to the natural changes in a language over time as it is used by its speakers. Language change is also referred to as diachrony, and its study is called diachronic analysis.
In conlanging, language change can also be simulated, a process called diachronic conlanging or "doing diachronics". Diachronic conlanging can be useful in fictional stories which cover a long time period, or it can be done purely as a creative activity in itself. Use this tag for questions about the process of simulating change in a conlang, and the language-change tag for natural changes to a conlang.
Feedback welcome of course!
As mentioned in chat, I dislike the framing of diachronics as a term strictly used in conlanging. I’m fine with the distinction for the tags, but not their descriptions here. I would perhaps say that “In the context of conlanging, langauge change is often referred to as diachronics”, and “This tag is reserved for questions relevant to the use of diachronics in conlanging, i.e. the deliberate simulation of language change”
@Adarain Those are both good options.
@Adarain I updated this post, what do you think? If you like it then I'll update my tag wiki edits.
Yea that sound good to me
Tag wiki edits updated. We'll need to wait for @RobertCartaino to approve them probably.
I’ve got tag wiki approval permissions at this point, I’ll see if they show up for me
@Adarain Even though I updated it, the review you did shows the new text, which makes me think you won't be asked to review it again. Never mind though, we'll get there eventually.
Yea, I see the same thing and can’t change my vote. Rather annoying, that.
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40 | Controversial proposal: regarding subjective questions
There is one kind of questions which we thus far have not seen on the site, but which I expect will eventually crop up. This is the kind of questions which goes: “I have X and Y feature in my conlang, and I have noticed that they cause Z problem. What can I do to fix this?” or also “In the context of my language, there is feature X. Because of this, I cannot find a nice way of expressing Y. I have tried Z, W, V, but they cause various problems. What are other options I have?” and so on. Basically, questions which have a rather narrow field of answers, but where answers are necessarily subjective in some way.
An example question of this kind could be “My language has no overt pronouns, only pronomial inflections. How can I express prepositional phrases with a pronomial NP?”, to which a possible answer might recommend inflected prepositions.
In my opinion, these questions should absolutely be allowed and even encouraged. Thoughts?
Is subjective the right/best term to use for this? I used it in my answer as well, but I feel you can be rather objective even if ostensibly you are offering an opinion.
Good Subjective, Bad Subjective is the canonical blog post in this situation. Subjectivity by itself is not a bad thing; unreasonable subjectivity is. The ideal "Good Subjective" question lends itself to answers that are backed up with something - reasoning, logic, a solid explanation. We deal with the same thing on Worldbuilding. I once explained our application of the Good Subjective policy as follows:
It's fine to have questions that are a bit subjective or opinionated . . .
. . . but answers to those questions must be supported in some way - they can't just be pure opinions.
You should be able to constructively, objectively (paradoxically!) say why an answer works (or doesn't work). That is, you should be able to point to X, Y, and Z, things that make the answer good or bad. That's why we try to close questions that ask things like "What color would make my humanoids the most beautiful?" You can't really objectively support an answer to that, can you?
Alternatively, as the help center puts it,
Some subjective questions are allowed, but “subjective” does not mean “anything goes”. All subjective questions are expected to be constructive. What does that mean? Constructive subjective questions:
inspire answers that explain “why” and “how”
tend to have long, not short, answers
have a constructive, fair, and impartial tone
invite sharing experiences over opinions
insist that opinion be backed up with facts and references
are more than just mindless social fun
We need to take this thing on a case-by-case basis. As Hotkeys said, "Should I do [X]?" questions aren't always overly opinion-based (but they sure can be!). I'm not comfortable with blanket-banning them, or, conversely, saying that this sort of question is always okay.
In the same vein, a question like
I have X and Y feature in my conlang, and I have noticed that they cause Z problem. What can I do to fix this?
might be too broad - a different issue than subjectivity - or it might be okay. Again, this is a case-by-case decision.
I would just like to add that one thing that a question author can do that is really helpful is clearly state what their goal is, giving a clear way to rank answers. For example, one goal could be conciseness: "How do I deal with this problem in the most concise way, preferably without adding any grammatical structures that require lengthening speech", or another could be simplicity: "How do I deal with this problem in a way that keeps the language easy to learn, and without adding complexity". This tends to help a lot with keeping questions from being opinion based.
Yes,
I agree. While subjective I feel like these are still very useful questions which are essentially asking for strategies for dealing with certain circumstances. An answer could still be given in a fairly rigorous manner "Well, natural languages like x are similar and they deal with it by doing y" or "In my conlang I faced this issue and I chose to deal with it in z way because of v and w". I feel this is categorically different from more purely opinion based questions like "Should I do x?".
Even "Should I do x?" questions can be appropriate in some cases such as they are asking about a feature or strategy in terms of a naturalistic conlang and said feature doesn't quite make sense naturally. This again is not quite purely opinion as one can answer relatively rigorously to explain that for example "This does not make sense from a naturalism perspective, there are no attestations of this in natural language and this would be implausible given how natural languages tend to deal with x y z" which I feel can still be useful. Though, perhaps these questions would be more appropriately worded as "Is it naturalistic to do x" (or whatever the goal is) rather than "Should I do x".
To summarize: Subjective doesn't necessarily mean purely opinion based, so yes, I think questions like this should be allowed.
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108 | How should we present example sentences in conlangs?
One big issue with conlangs is that usually, only very few people are knowledgable of their structure, and even fewer know a lot of vocabulary. As such, when being presented with an example sentence in a conlang, the average reader on this site sees exactly gibberish. There are two questions here:
1. Is this a problem?
Given a question on Toki Pona or Lojban, the person who is asking a question is likely at least somewhat familiar with the language and may not require extended explanations or direct translations of features unrelated to the question at hand. For example, in this question here, as of me writing this question, the accepted answer simply features two example sentences in Toki Pona, which the OP presumably understood (or they wouldn’t have accepted the answer). To me as someone who is not familiar with the language’s grammar however, it is unintelligible. I would have been interested in seing the answer stated in a way that I can learn something as well, however. Whether this is a) necessary and b) even desired is in the air.
It can however become an indesputable problem if someone requires help with a feature of their own constructed language. To showcase the context, they will likely require to give some form of examples, and people capable of answering will need to be able to parse those examples, preferrably without much trouble.
Another thing that has to be considered is that examples will not always be about the grammatical structure. Sometimes the focus may be on phonology, in which case the meanings of individual words might be interesting, but not relevant.
The question then is, in what cases do we consider bare example sentences problematic?
2. In cases where we consider it to be a problem, what can we do about it?
Probably the easier question to answer: How do we want people to present example sentences? Do we require glosses, explanations? Do we require a romanization if the language is not written in the latin script? If a question is about phonology, do we require a transcription in a phonetic alphabet, and if yes, does it necessarily have to be IPA or would alternative systems such as Americanist notation be acceptable as well?
1. Is this a problem?
I believe (and I wouldn’t have made this post otherwise) this to be a problem in general. In my opinion, while the main focus of an answer should be answering the question at hand, to the person who asked it, sharing knowledge with other people who might read it is always valuable and can set apart a decent answer from a great one. As such, I would consider an absolutely bare sentence in a conlang to never be good practice. Thus, not like this:
Pes qune wasi lxelxasac p’eknuim nuk’gojet.
2. In cases where we consider it to be a problem, what can we do about it?
As alluded to in the actual question, a primary distinction ought to be made between sentences where the meaning is relevant (grammar or semantics questions) and those where it’s not (phonology questions). In the former, I would suggest that at a minimum, a literal as well as an idiomatic translation should be provided, like this:
Pes qune wasi lxelxasac p’eknuim nuk’gojet.
What that I in-lxelxe say you-don’t-understand
“You can’t understand what I say in Lxelxe.”
This can often already be enough to get a good feeling of the grammar involved without much additional effort. Especially when wanting to highlight morphology however, a gloss is extremely useful. Ideally some implementation to easily create pretty glosses would be amazing, lacking that however they can be created somewhat okayishly using code blocks:
Pes qune wasi lxelxasac p’eknuim nuk’gojet.
pes qune wasi lxelxa-sac p’eknu-im nuk’-goj-et
what COMP 1 lxelxe.OBL-INE say-1s understand-NEG-2s
“You can’t understand what I say in Lxelxe.”
To anyone with some experience in linguistics, regardless of what languages they are familiar with, this form of presentation gives a clear idea of the morphological structure. Depending on the goals, this may be overkill or actually obfuscate the relevant information - the fact that Lxelxe has an inessive case affix -sac which attaches to the oblique stem might not be relevant at all if the discussion was about relative clauses in that language. In such a case, glosses may be made more “informal”, mixing the structures presented in the two examples above, as appropriate. Additional information such as a clause grouping might also be indicated to further highlight the issue at hand:
Pes qune wasi lxelxasac p’eknuim nuk’gojet.
pes [qune wasi lxelxa-sac p’eknu-im] nuk’-goj-et
what [COMP 1 lxelxe-in say-1s] understand-NEG-2s
“You can’t understand what I say in Lxelxe.”
Now on the other hand if the question was about pronunciation, all of this would be unnecessary. If the question for example was “How do relative clauses affect intonation in Lxelxe?”, then perhaps a good example illustrating this might look more like this:
Pes qune wasi lxelxasac p’eknuim nuk’gojet.
↑ˈpεs ˈqunɛ ˈwasi l̩ˈxεl̩ˌxε p’ɛknuˈim | nuk̚ˈ↑k’ɔjɛt
This would then accompanied with some explanation, perhaps something along the lines of As you can see, there is a pause after the end of the relative clause. The intonation rises sharply on the head of the relative clause and then stays relatively flat, tapering off slowly, over the duration of the clause. Intionation is essentially reset after the pause.
Conclusion / TL;DR
In my opinion, example sentences should always be provided with enough information that a reader can make sense of it, even if they don’t speak the language very well. However, this can easily be overdone as well. Information should not be added to the point where the actual answer is hidden behind it, but be supplementary information to the post. Often, examples aren’t needed at all, but if there are any, then they should be expanded upon enough that they are not just random strings of characters to the reader. Of course, this also implies that examples given in another script will probably benefit from a romanization under some circumstances, but only if this would help the understanding of the problem at hand.
If only the markdown here supported tables. It's been requested for so long, I really don't understand why they haven't added it. So many sites would make good use of tables, and for us they'd make aligning glosses super easy.
math.se (at least) allows something like TeX, which has syntax for column alignment; is that close enough? (I haven't learned to use columns.)
You know, this example sort of reminds me of code-only answers on Stack Overflow and certain other sites (1, 2, 3). The comparison isn't perfect, but there are several similarities between code-only answers and sentence-only answers:
They're both blocks of content without explanation.
They solve the immediate problem without showing the askers how to solve similar problems in the future (giving someone a fish instead of teaching them how to fish).
They're not fantastic, and I'd be inclined to downvote - although they do answer the question asked.
For all we know, the content could crash the OP's program . . . or their conversation.
Are they a problem? I'd argue that any answer that doesn't teach the OP something significant - and these, quite frankly, don't - is problematic insofar as it's probably not good. It might be downvoteable. Deleteable? I'd argue it's not; it does answer the question. It shouldn't be flagged as Not An Answer or deleted (1, 2).
There are some specific details I'd want to see, in general:
A translation of the sentence into English, and an explanation of said translation.
An explanation of why this works - in other words, why it makes sense.
Perhaps a more general discussion of the OP's problem. For instance, in the linked question, addressing why the OP's attempts don't work would be nice.
So, what do we do? Downvote? Sure, if you want. Flag or vote to delete? Probably not? Write a constructive comment explaining how the answer could be improved? Sure. I like what you did in this comment:
While I assume OP does not require it, I personally would appreciate it if you could add some form of gloss to the answer so someone not familiar with the language can appreciate the structure as well and learn something from this question.
I think the key point to emphasize is that this answer doesn't do a good job of teaching anyone. It gives content without context - and that's not good. I'd write something like
This sentence does answer the OP's question. However, it doesn't teach them anything - it doesn't explain why the content makes sense, or how it should be constructed. Basically, it won't help the OP in the future. It would be nice if you could add some explanation about the structure of this sentence so people can learn something from this answer.
That's just an example, but I think you get what I mean.
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66 | Challenges / conlanging puzzles
How much would it go against the spirit of SE to allow conlanging flavoured challenges here? Some possibilities (not a complete list) I could see working with the format of SE include:
Reconstruction games. In these, one is given a set of supposed cognates, either as a table or on a map (potentially fictional) and has to try and reconstruct the original word(s). This thread has a bunch of them, each more elaborate than the previous.
Deciphering challenges. Given a short text (sentence or small paragraph) in a conlang and some additional information, either in the form of a direct grammar/lexicon dump or other sentences, figure out a translation for the text.
Construction challenges. Within a limited timespan, construct a conlang sketch and translate a small text (1-2 sentences).
I’m not sure 3) would work well here, but I could definitely see the other two being a fun addition to the site. The question is merely… do we want fun? I do hear that there is a puzzling SE, but the knowledge required to work these challenges might be too specific there.
A simple-ish answer is that it would indeed go against the spirit of Stack Exchange. We do have two sites - Puzzling and Programming Puzzles & Code Gofl - dedicated to solving puzzles, but there's one key feature: Those sites are explicitly designed for puzzles. The other Stack Exchange sites are not.
The official, tongue-in-cheek position of Stack Exchange is that We Hate Fun. Obviously, that's not totally true; we do have fun things like Winter Bash semi-regularly, and chat rooms are more laid-back. But on the whole, we keep things serious. It's not really that we hate fun; it's just that it distracts from the serious, real-life problems that people have.
This sort of thing is especially true on small beta sites. I've got no idea what sort of activity Constructed Languages will see in the future, but it won't be huge, maybe five questions a day in the coming months (if we get past private beta). This means that if we get one puzzle question every day or two - and we would get that many, if not more - then 10-20% of the site would be for fun. That ratio's higher than I think most people would like.
That said, we could maybe do this sort of thing in chat, maybe having a weekly game session, where it would be tucked away and wouldn't distract from the main site (although there's plenty of serious business in chat). Maybe a custom room could be made, so the site's main chat room can remain open for more serious stuff. But I wouldn't recommend having this sort of contest on the site itself.
I think that a separate room in the chat is a great idea. I don't see anything wrong in such challenges and I will really like to see them here, at least on the chat.
By way of comparison, I am on another Stack Exchange site that has such a challenge type: Chemistry.SE. Within organic chemistry, suggesting syntheses to various organic compounds using known reactions is considered an interesting puzzle. Often, the goal is to find elegant pathways that please the organic chemist’s eye and with as few reactions as possible. There’s a reason why chemists speak of the art (and not science) of total synthesis.
The way the challenges — which are subsumed under the umbrella tag synthesis-golf and which are explained in this chem.meta.SE question for those interested — work is that they are posted once every month, users have the chance to submit their answers and finally the accepted answer is awarded to the route with the lowest number of steps (assuming the community agrees by voting that the route will likely work).
This would immediately set an outline of when and how this would be possible.
Chemistry receives some thirty questions per day yet the challenges are only once a month. The ratio of normal questions to synthesis-golf questions is about 900 to 1. (Note, however, that Chemistry has a somewhat unhealthy closing rate.)
While the challenge in itself seems simple, the main question posters take special care to ensure that the challenge is neither too hard (= no answers) nor too easy. They have misjudged a few times which lead to a daunting drop in answers.
A challenge needs an unambiguous way to award the checkmark; i.e. a way to measure the goodness of answers. I consider choosing the first answer would be a very bad design principle. Choosing the highest-voted answer would work partially, but chances are that it is just the first answer that rises highest. I’m not sure how one would rate the answers since any constraint I am imagining right now seems very abusable when one has full control over the output.
(That does not mean that a good method does not exist, it means I can’t think of one off the top of my head.)
Of course, if the asker has designed the challenge in a way that leaves only one correct answer, then FGITW is a valid checkmark selecting method.
I think it would be a good idea to implement at some point in the future but not before a steady stream of ‘normal’ questions come in. When exactly a good time to start would be and how often to post a challenge would have to be discussed at a later date.
I agree they shouldn't be a regular thing.
One possibility is though to borrow from Mi Yodeya (Judasim) where each year they have one month where Purim Torah questions are allowed, for humorous and satirical misinterpretations of their scriptures. Questions must be tagged, and once the period is over they are all immediately closed.
In the same way, we could have one month a year where these language puzzles would be allowed, perhaps timed to coincide with International Linguistics Olympiad.
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156 | Topic Challenge: Conlanging Communities
Last fortnights’s topic challenge wasn’t that much of a success, sadly; maybe this one will see some more activity!
Conlanging Communities
Questions about real-life communities of conlangers. Questions could be about finding or starting clubs (though not specific recommendations), how to sustain a speech community, perhaps how to teach someone your conlang.
As always, post recommendations for future topics here: Topics for Topic Challenges
It can be easier to think up topics than questions sadly.
Definitely true
Maybe don't post the next topic immediately, let this sit un-featured for two weeks, and then post it? I'm still trying to think of questions to ask :(
I can most certainly do that. (stupid minimum characters)
Questions belonging to this topic
What are some real world data on the numbers of speakers of constructed languages? What data on conlang speakers are available?
How many active Klingon speakers are there? How many active Klingon speakers are there?
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171 | Are questions about constructed scripts for natural languages on-topic?
I want to ask a question about the Deseret Alphabet, a constructed script created in the mid-1800's by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a proposed replacement for the Roman script in English. There was very little popular uptake and the project was canceled, but the script as it exists is well-documented and remains usable in theory. Is such a constructed script, intended by its creators to be used only with existing natural languages, on-topic? We have the tag writing-systems, but most of the questions appear to be about constructed scripts associated with corresponding constructed languages (e.g. Klingon script used to write Klingon).
Yep, we already have some of those questions, such as mine on Wakandan.
I think constructed alphabets for natural languages are OK here. There is no other site on the SE network where such questions are appreciated (linguistics says meh, English language and usage will kick you out, it is not about puzzling nor science fiction) and I see the common aspects to constructed languages as a plus here.
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168 | 2019 Community Moderator Election Results
Constructed Languages's first moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied and the new moderator is:
They'll be joining the existing crew shortly—please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes!
Also, please join me in thanking Adarain who will be stepping down as moderator.
For details on how the voting played out, you can download the election results here, or view a summary report online.
Thanks to the community for their trust in me. I hope I can do some good work here.
Herzlichen Glückwunsch!
Yay! Go now and rule with a fist of iron and a rod of adamant!
Congratulations Jknappen! Welcome to the team! Thank you too to Oliver Mason for putting your hand up.
And thank you Adarain for your service over the past year.
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26 | Do questions about specific conlangs have to be about "published" conlangs?
For example, if I had been creating Blarth, a conlang, and I had a question--could I ask that question here, or is it limited to conlangs that have been around for a while?
From the Tour:
Constructed Languages Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for designers and users of artificial or invented languages
(emphasis mine).
So, yes, questions about problems you are experiencing creating your own conlang are definitely on topic.
However, if you want a good answer you'll have to provide enough context so that people unfamiliar with your language (just about everyone!) will be able to answer from the information you've provided.
Okay. But I do think that we should have a rule that enough context must be provided so that the question can be satisfactorily answered by people who have never seen the language before.
@CHEESE you're probably right there. Though the usual mechanisms of down-votes and votes to close ("unclear what you asking"?) should suffice in most cases.
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196 | 2021: a year in moderation
As we say goodbye to the old year and welcome the new one, we have a tradition of sharing moderation stats for the preceding calendar year.
As most of you here are aware, sites on the Stack Exchange network are moderated somewhat differently to other sites on the web:
We designed the Stack Exchange network engine to be mostly self-regulating, in that we amortize the overall moderation cost of the system across thousands of teeny-tiny slices of effort contributed by regular, everyday users.
-- A Theory of Moderation
That doesn't eliminate the need for having moderators altogether, but it does mean that the bulk of moderation work is carried out by regular folks. Every bit of time and effort y'all contribute to the site gives you access to more privileges you can use to help in this effort, all of which produce a cumulative effect that makes a big difference.
So as we say goodbye to 2021, let us look back at what we accomplished as a community... by looking at some exciting stats. Below is a breakdown of moderation actions performed on Constructed Languages over the past 12 months:
Action
Moderators
Community¹
Users suspended²
0
5
Users destroyed³
25
0
Users deleted
1
0
Tasks reviewed⁴: Suggested Edit queue
6
10
Tasks reviewed⁴: Reopen Vote queue
1
0
Tasks reviewed⁴: Late Answer queue
0
3
Tasks reviewed⁴: First questions queue
0
4
Tasks reviewed⁴: First Post queue
0
29
Tasks reviewed⁴: First answers queue
0
2
Tasks reviewed⁴: Close Votes queue
1
3
Tag synonyms proposed
3
0
Questions reopened
1
0
Questions flagged⁵
0
6
Questions closed
5
0
Question flags handled⁵
3
3
Posts deleted⁶
5
5
Escalations to the Community Manager team
1
0
Comments flagged
0
8
Comments deleted⁷
45
17
Comment flags handled
7
1
Answers flagged
1
3
Answer flags handled
4
0
Footnotes
¹ "Community" here refers both to the membership of Constructed Languages without diamonds next to their names, and to the automated systems otherwise known as user #-1.
² The system will suspend users under three circumstances: when a user is recreated after being previously suspended, when a user is recreated after being destroyed for spam or abuse, and when a network-wide suspension is in effect on an account.
³ A "destroyed" user is deleted along with all that they had posted: questions, answers, comments. Generally used as an expedient way of getting rid of spam.
⁴ This counts every review that was submitted (not skipped) - so the 2 suggested edits reviews needed to approve an edit would count as 2, the goal being to indicate the frequency of moderation actions. This also applies to flags, etc.
⁵ Includes close flags (but not close or reopen votes).
⁶ This ignores numerous deletions that happen automatically in response to some other action.
⁷ This includes comments deleted by their own authors (which also account for some number of handled comment flags).
Further reading:
Wanna see how these numbers have changed over time? We posted a similar report here last year: 2020: a year in moderation
You can also check out this report on other sites
Or peruse detailed information on the number of questions closed and reopened across all sites
Wishing everyone a happy 2022! ^_^
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226 | 2023: a year in moderation
It’s that time of the year again! As we wave goodbye to last year and welcome the new one, we have a tradition of sharing moderation stats for the preceding calendar year.
As most of you here might be aware, sites on the Stack Exchange network are moderated somewhat differently to other sites on the web:
We designed the Stack Exchange network engine to be mostly self-regulating, in that we amortize the overall moderation cost of the system across thousands of teeny-tiny slices of effort contributed by regular, everyday users.
-- A Theory of Moderation
That doesn't eliminate the need for having moderators altogether, but it does mean that the bulk of moderation work is carried out by regular folks — folks like you. Every bit of time and effort y'all contribute to the site gives you access to more privileges you can use to help in this effort, all of which produce a cumulative effect that makes a big difference in ensuring Stack Exchange sites remain a valuable source of high-quality content on the web.
So as we say goodbye to 2023 (and January 2024… ahem) and move into 2024, let us look back at what we accomplished as a community... by looking at some exciting stats. Below is a breakdown of moderation actions performed on Constructed Languages over the past 12 months:
Action
Moderators
Community User¹
Community²
All comments on a post moved to chat
0
0
0
Answer flags handled
14
0
0
Answers flagged
2
6
6
Bounties canceled
0
0
0
Comment flags handled
10
0
0
Comments deleted⁸
16
0
11
Comments flagged
0
0
10
Comments undeleted
0
0
0
Escalations to the Community Manager team
0
0
0
Posts bumped
0
2
0
Posts deleted⁷
13
7
6
Posts locked
0
3
0
Posts undeleted
0
0
2
Posts unlocked
0
0
0
Question flags handled⁶
3
0
3
Questions closed
8
0
0
Questions flagged⁶
0
2
4
Questions merged
0
0
0
Questions migrated
0
0
0
Questions protected
0
0
0
Questions reopened
3
0
0
Questions unprotected
0
0
0
Revisions redacted
0
0
0
Tag highlight language set
0
0
0
Tag synonyms created
0
0
0
Tag synonyms proposed
1
0
0
Tags merged
0
0
0
Tasks reviewed⁵: "Close votes" queue
0
0
0
Tasks reviewed⁵: "First answers" queue
0
0
6
Tasks reviewed⁵: "First questions" queue
2
0
0
Tasks reviewed⁵: "Late answers" queue
0
0
0
Tasks reviewed⁵: "Low quality posts" queue
0
0
1
Tasks reviewed⁵: "Reopen votes" queue
0
0
0
Tasks reviewed⁵: "Suggested edits" queue
15
1
4
Tasks reviewed⁵: "Triage" queue
0
0
0
User banned from review
0
0
0
User review-bans lifted early
0
0
0
User suspensions lifted early
0
0
0
Users contacted
0
0
0
Users deleted
0
0
0
Users destroyed⁴
20
0
0
Users suspended³
1
6
0
Footnotes
¹ This refers to the automated systems otherwise known as user #-1.
² This refers to the membership of Constructed Languages without diamonds next to their names.
³ The system will suspend users under three circumstances: when a user is recreated after being previously suspended, when a user is recreated after being destroyed for spam or abuse, and when a network-wide suspension is in effect on an account.
⁴ A "destroyed" user is deleted along with all that they had posted: questions, answers, comments. Generally used as an expedient way of getting rid of spam.
⁵ This counts every review that was submitted (not skipped) - so the 2 suggested edits reviews needed to approve an edit would count as 2, the goal being to indicate the frequency of moderation actions. This also applies to flags, etc.
⁶ Includes close flags (but not close or reopen votes). The community² can handle these flags by at least one person voting to close a question that has a close flag.
⁷ This ignores numerous deletions that happen automatically in response to some other action.
⁸ This includes comments deleted by their own authors (which also account for some number of handled comment flags).
Further reading:
Wanna see how these numbers have changed over time? We posted a similar report here last year: 2022: a year in moderation
You can also check out this report on other sites
Or peruse detailed information on the number of questions closed and reopened across all sites
Wishing everyone a happy 2024! ^_^
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30 | Thoughts on this question - translation request
How is "lightness" in the Black Speech? Is a translation question. As per Should questions saying "how do you say [thing] in [conlang]" allowed?
Yes, these questions should be allowed.
But there are already four close votes on it, one of them mine. Does this need more discussion? Do we want to avoid translation questions until out of private beta?
You may be making this too complicated — follow the lessons our successful language sites figured out long ago.
Acceptable questions contain a specific problem statement. But if someone asks how to say {x} in Klingtokiedwarfonto, get a dictionary. We're not here to do that work for you. This is not a translation service.
Where "Translation" Questions Do Work
If the author is having difficulty with an idiomatic expression or understanding the exact syntax of a situation, make sure the specific point of confusion is clearly stated in the question itself. Users often blithely express this as "what have you tried?" I'm not a big fan of dismissing users without further clarification, but you can politely ask for clarification and close a question if the question is clearly outside the purpose of asking experts to go out of their way to provide custom help for them.
How to say something in a conlang is important, but we need to beware lest the site become nothing more than a human-powered translation tool for obscure, minor or constructed languages.
Additionally, many "constructed languages" have a very small lexicon and grammar, and in many cases, requests for 'How do you say "x" in Y?' may not be able to be answered authoritatively by anyone but the language's author.
I believe that this site should be more about how to construct an artificial language than simple translation, so any requests for translation should be addressed as examples of language construction rather than discrete requests for translation, and where a question has already been asked about a particular aspect of a language, similar questions should be considered to be any that address aspects of the language that have been previously discussed, even if no one question addresses them all, and should be considered to be a duplicate if all aspects have been addressed previously, even if not all in the one question.
So, to make things clearer, I believe that pure translation should be off-topic, and allowable only if accompanied by a question of the particular characteristics of the language in question.
E.g. :
'Please translate "x" into language Y' should be off-topic since there is little to be learned from it.
While:
'What is the antonym of "a" in "a b c" in the language D' should be on-topic because it can be accompanied by a discussion of how D handles antonyms and by extension inform readers of how other antonyms might be handled if they follow some regular pattern.
I agree with Robert Cartaino that SE-Conlang is not a translation service. And while I agree with Adarain et al that, in general, translation questions ought to be off topic more than I disagree with the statement, I do think we need to retain some flexibility in regards to this kind of question.
The Toki Pona question referenced is a good example: it's not a pure "how do you say X" question, because the answer can not be "look it up in the dictionary". Rather this question, as I see it, delves more into how the language functions and the design parameters of the glossopoet.
The Black Speech question is also a good example because, well, there isn't a dictionary to look it up in. Also, online one can find many "reconstructions" and "cinematic additions" --- quasi-canonical, fan-generated languages and so forth for all the popular franchises. I think our expertise in the field as regards understanding & intuiting what might best be considered canon and what might best be called "fanciful additions to the canon" is well suited to this kind of question.
As for well settled, well known "standard" invented languages like Esperanto or LFN or Brithenig or Wenedyk (any language with an actual published dictionary or an accessible✳ online resource), sure we should be free to say "go look it up in the dictionary!" or "send an email to the author" and downvote or boycott or whatever we feel needful.
NOTE: webpages, especially older ones, have a tendency to disappear. If someone comes asking for help with a relatively well known invented language the online resource of which is now gone or hidden in some archive, I think it would be appropriate to a) give the immediate answer and b) point the seeker in the direction of said archive if there is one.
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53 | On going in depth, or: writing the best answer possible
Is Tolkien's Dwarvish really based on Hebrew? is a recent, interesting question, especially once the asker edited to expand upon the question. The answer, to quote it here, is
Yes.
According to this interview with Tolkien, he really did design it to be Semitic. He says,
The dwarves of course are quite obviously, wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic.
In other words, he did design their tongue to be very like the Semitic language, possibly since their history resembled that of the Jews.
Mithrandir (not the fictional Mithrandir, our site's Mithrandir) said
Could you please expand on this answer to show more similarities and how it's demonstratively similar, instead of just relying on what the author said?
And I feel like this is a point that should be discussed. Yes, the the answer answers the question. But, does it really deserve 8 upvotes? It doesn't go in depth into the similarities and why we believe there's a match (beyond "Tolkien says so").
This is why I want to propose that answers should be "the best possible", providing detail beyond just a yes, no, or maybe so. Further, while upvoting (please upvote, early and often, as many beta metas say) consider why you are doing so.
(Note that this is definitely not to call out the answerer in that case; I feel like I've seen this a couple of times.)
Yep. Good answers justify their claims. An appeal to authority is never as good as an independent justification.
@curiousdannii That's not entirely accurate. For some cases, WOG statements like an interview with Tolkien himself trump any analysis that might be done. For example if he says "I was inspired by Hebrew" and some linguistic scholars say "It has about as much in common with Hebrew as it does with Swahili" he still was inspired by Hebrew.
@corsiKa Very true. Which is probably mostly why I tended to disagree with Mithrandir's assessment. If (since) Tolkien himself said, "Yes, it is," I see no reason why further argumentation is required. Sure, it could make the answer better, which I am all for, but not necessary. That said, I'm willing to change my philosophy if someone can show me otherwise. :)
Here's my thought on the situation @rotaredom - we're in beta. We're setting the tone of the site. If you can make the answer better (which you admit following Mithrandir's advice could do), why wouldn't you?
I agree with this, and I have a couple of additional points I want to make. I hope you'll hear me out.
I haven't yet asked a question on the site, and because of that (and the fact that we're still in private beta), going to the Ask Question link gives me a nice little bit of advice. I've been through something like a dozen private betas, and, for the most part, asked questions on each one, but I still read this little spiel every time around. The last paragraph of it has always stuck with me:
You get the site you build
The first questions set the tone and topic of a site for a long time. Those early questions say a lot about what your community could become. And questions asked during the private beta will be on the front page when potential experts see your site for the first time. So please make those first questions exemplary ones that are interesting, challenging, and worthy of imitation.
If feel like a more generic version of this geared towards both questions and answers would make a really great bit of recommended reading for a private beta. All the posts we write at the moment set precedent, and assuming that we make it out of private beta - not that we should assume that - they'll set the site's course for years to come. If we write awesome answers, then folks down the line will be encouraged to do the same. If we write crappy answers, then we're not going to get anywhere. Fixing that sort of problem is hard.
As an example, I'd like to mention that there's a Stack Exchange site (I won't name it) that I use a lot. I really enjoy writing answers there. I've been on it for several years, although I missed its birth by about ten months. After a while contributing, I looked back at the earliest posts. And . . . many of them were not good. At all. And that's kinda frustrating. Did the site get better? Yes, eventually, because people who were motivated to write fantastic posts came in. But things could just as easily have gone the other way. That's why this is an important issue.
That's Point #1. Point #2 is that the quality of an answer is just as important as the content. I've only written three answers because it's taken me kind of a while to write them. (Part of that is putting in effort; part of that is that my knowledge in certain areas is incomplete.) In two cases, before I'd finished writing, other folks had written answers with, to some extent, the same information.
You could make a case for one of two actions: Posting the answer, or not posting it. In both instances, I chose the former, because I felt that my answer was more complete, or made a different argument to support the conclusions. I say this not to toot my own horn - honestly, maybe my answers were crappy and not worth posting; I'm not an impartial judge - but to try to not discourage people if they run up against a Fastest Gun in the West situation.
Just because someone writes an answer doesn't mean that yours can't be better. Even if they got a bunch of quick upvotes, you still might have something to add. Is this always the case? Definitely not. I've aborted a couple of answers here because even though I was close to finished, someone else wrote something great. And of course an answer that just duplicates another probably isn't worth anything. But I want people to know that there's always room for another answer, so long as it brings something substantial a new to the table - new information, a new view, a new rationale.
Lol. Can definitely identify with "other folks had written answers with, to some extent, the same information." It's happened at least three times now... BTW, did you mean "former" in the first sentence of the second to last paragraph?
@rotaredom Yep, you're spot-on. Thanks for the correction.
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94 | We've made it to public beta!
Good work everyone, we've clearly demonstrated the viability of this site!
And keep at it! There are lots more great questions to be asked and answered, and lots of people to invite now that it's that little bit easier, just sending them a link.
Awesome!
Miscellaneous random things we need to take into account and think about in the upcoming days:
We're probably going to get a bunch of new users who don't know much about the site. Let's be teachers when it comes to the pieces of the scope we've fleshed out so far.
In terms of content rate, this might be the danger zone. Now that the excitement of private beta is over, it's possible that folks might stop being active, and we could lose users. Let's keep content - good content - coming, and make sure we don't rely on an influx of new folks to keep the site going.
We're not done yet, which is why I'm happy but not celebrating. The site looks like it can succeed, but only time will tell. I'm honestly slight worried about activity levels, but hey, the amount of data we've got is pretty slim.
Let's try and help the mods. We'll have some pro-tem mods soon, presumably, but we have to keep community moderation constant and strong.
We're absolutely still a work in progress - and a site always is - but we're getting better.
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164 | Porting Language Invention Queries from Other Stacks
Simply put, and in light of a recent query about forum activity, what is the general thought of Constructed Languages SE regarding the importation of (perhaps somewhat older) language invention questions from other SE forums? Particularly Worldbuilding, which was around rather before CL.SE and even now gets a number of language related queries (which are often referred here).
Main considerations: is this possible?; and if so, is this desirable?
If you see interesting questions on other sites that would be on-topic here, and haven't already been asked here yet, go for it. Remember to properly reference the original if you use its content.
But only do that if you have a genuine interest in the question. Systematically transferring content will not help, nor will the Stack Exchange staff look favourably upon it if its purpose is to make this site look more active than it really is.
Of course, the point isn't to make this forum "look more active than it is" --- the point is to "make this forum more active"! Also, invented language queries are increasingly frowned upon (in e.g., Worldbuilding) since we started up this forum. It seems to make sense to bring over (or at least copy) older questions from there simply because we are language inventors and can give the old questions a new set of eyes and a more experienced perspective.
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59 | Should resource requests be on-topic?
I am wondering if resource request questions should be on topic, especially when resources are hard to find. For example, I've been wondering if there are any resources in English to learn Solresol, as so far I haven't succeeded in finding anything but dead links. Should questions like that be acceptable here? Some such questions seem useful, but I understand it could be a slippery slope to broad requests that invite endless lists.
The whole idea of Stack Exchange is to be a storage of quality information.
Information almost never exist by its own. Instead, it is based on resources, references, and prior works.
Hence, it seems to be nearly impossible to make a storage for quality information without links and references.
Even despite the "link rot", data decay (becoming obsolete or overridden), and other natural processes associated with any references.
Therefore, resource requests should be on-topic and be a crucial part of any Stack Exchange site.
The other thing is that question containing resource requests should pass the usual Stack Exchange filters: not being too broad or opinion-based, demonstrate attempt to own research, clearly stating what's wrong with the links the OP has found him-/herself, etc.
In general yes, but if they aren't specific enough they may be closed as too broad.
For the situation you raised above, when you can't find anything but dead links, that definitely would be an acceptable question, because you know that at some time the resources existed, you just don't know where they can be found now.
There is some precedent for this on other Stack Exchange sites about languages. The main difference here seems to be that the quantity of potential questions in this category is significantly higher, since while other sites only deal with one language, we deal with many.
I think such resource requests would be as useful as they are on sites dedicated to a single language. However, clearly allowing any question of this type is a bad idea, as you mention; since there are so many conlangs, a "resources" question for each would quickly become overwhelming.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's a reasonable objective way to determine which languages "deserve" to have a post dedicated to tools for learning them. However, I think we can reasonably judge which conlangs posts like this are likely to work for by a few criteria:
lesser-known languages, such as someone's personal project that doesn't have any "fluent" or dedicated speakers, are unlikely to benefit from such a post, as the majority of the resources are likely to be in the same place: the author's documentation of the language
simple languages such as relexes or place-naming languages also probably wouldn't gain much either, since there's not really much to learn to begin with, and any relevant answers would simply be links to dictionaries
On the other hand, such resource requests would certainly work for widely spoken conlangs like Esperanto (although perhaps its dedicated site would be a better place), Klingon, or High Valyrian, for the same reasons that the various natural language sites have these posts. They could also be useful for well-known but sparsely-documented or -spoken conlangs such as Occidental / Interlingue, for which resources may be difficult to find.
I don't think there's much matter of what 'deserves' a post- this is a free site where people go to get information. A lesser-used language would have less people reply and add resources for it, while a more popular one would be more likely to get many replies.
Either way, to initiate the request (besides self-answers), someone has to have the need to find the resources, and I believe we shouldn't deny them it, even if the thing they want to learn is more esoteric- in fact, wouldn't be calling on experts be even more important then, if googling would fail due to obscureness?
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131 | Is there enough activity on this site?
I am afraid of the low activity since this site entered the public beta phase. Aren't there any questions to be asked here? I think no one should be afraid of self-answer questions: Every question and every answer embiggens the surface for search engines and the probabilty that more people are attracted to this site.
I'm a little concerned too, but there are other sites with even less activity, so I don't think they'll kill us off quite yet. But we do need to keep building the site and community.
I think our low activity is a problem, and a discussion about how to increase activity on the site would be productive (and may be necessary).
This one should be a menetekel to us: https://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/4296/personal-productivity
@jknappen Granted, that site was closed after nearly 2500 days in beta. We've been in beta for less than six months! So there's definitely still hope.
Also, unrelated but thanks for teaching me the word "menetekel" because I'd never heard it before!
We will not get closed for low activity
StackExchange no longer closes sites solely for low activity. According to this post:
If there's enough moderation for a public beta site to consistently remain free of spam, for flags to be cleared, and for our Be Nice policy to be upheld, your site will remain open.
While our activity is indeed quite low, we don't need to worry about being shut down for it -- so far we've done an excellent job avoiding spam and Being Nice to one another! We need to keep that up, of course, but we definitely don't need to panic about having our site shut down.
That said, we should try to promote our site
I agree that our site's low activity is unfortunate, and that we'd be a better site with higher activity. But the only way to solve that is by doing something about it!
As pointed out by jknappen, there are two main ways to do this:
Promoting this site on other places conlangers frequent. This includes sharing links to high-quality questions and answers to draw users of other conlanging fora to this site.
Being more active ourselves. I definitely think we should work to post more questions and answers -- and I'll be looking to do that myself this summer! If we want people to use our site, we need to have high-quality content to draw them in!
We mods are also looking into other ways to increase participation among those already here on the site. Be on the lookout for meta posts gauging interest in potential events and challenges for site members in the near future! And if you've got an idea for something that you think would improve this site, please post a meta thread about it!
As @Sparksbet said in her answer, we need to increase the activity on this site.
There are basically two means: Being active ourselves and drawing more people from the community here.
Being active ourselves means, keep asking and answering questions, seeing our commitment as a long term activity that is not stopped by getting a beta badge.
Drawing more people here means promoting this site on places where conlang afficionadoes hang around, this includes mailing lists and fora. It also includes some other stackexchange sites where it is possible to have community ads.
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71 | Proposal: tag for questions regarding the "europeanness" of features/conlangs
Questions about the "europeanness" or "englishness" of a feature, structure or conlang in my experience relatively often come up in conlanging, particularly in the context of such features or structures being added unintentionally, usually due to the author not being familiar with alternative ways of doing things, and as such inadverdently copies peculiarities of their native language(s) (most commonly English); we just got the first one. As such I would like to propose the addition of a tag for this. The problem is what such a tag should be names. The most straightforward option would be something like europeanness or eurocentrism, but other options are also possible, such as sae (or accidental-sae)(common abbreviation for Standard Average European). This is related to the topic of relexification for which there already exists a tag, however it is not synonymous, as relexification can also be done of non-SAE languages, and conlangs that are overall not relexes may still unintentionally include some structures unintentionally copied from the native language(s) of the author?
Does adding a tag like this make sense, and if so what name for the tag is preferrable (which might not be any of my proposed names)?
English lacks four or five of the dozen defining SAE features listed in that WP article, so I'd prefer a broader term like “eurocentrism”.
I agree that this would be an excellent idea -- I think that eurocentrism would be much better than europeanness or sae because the word "europeanness" looks horrible and not everyone who visits will necessarily be familiar with the SAE abbreviation. Perhaps sae could be a synonym of eurocentrism, though?
I'm not sure this would be needed, but if it is, eurocentrism is much better!
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55 | Should we maintain a list of conlanging resources on meta?
The question of resources to refer to, for beginners or any other level, is going to come up at some point. Would it be a good use of time to maintain a list of them here, so that users could have a one stop shop area to refer to? Or would that be out of scope?
I might actually want to argue that the list of resources is better kept on the main site. Precedence for this:
Resources for learning chemistry on Chemistry.SE
Resources for learning German on German.SE
Resources for learning Russian on Russian.SE
and others
They do all seem to follow the same format. We may choose to do so or do differently, that should probably be discussed on meta. But I think the actual resources question should be on main for larger visibility.
I think this is a good idea.
Other sites maintain a meta repository of resources like this without problems. For example:
Literature SE
Puzzling SE
Meta is a good place to do it for a couple of reasons.
On most sites at least, "big list" questions usually get closed as too broad. Meta tends to be more liberal - we even have a discussion tag, despite SE's general strong aversion to "discussiony" type content! - and this is reflected in the help centre. The general rule is that pretty much anything goes if it's relevant to the site concerned, until and unless it starts causing problems. I can't think of any problems that a single canonical resources list on meta would cause.
Meta has a (low) bar to participation. One of the problems with big-list questions on the main site is that anyone can come along and add a new answer which might potentially be just as valid as all the others. On meta, people normally have more sense and/or experience with the system.
I've seen in other stacks that a question - on the main site - can be 'protected', requiring some amount of rep earned on the site before additional answers can be submitted, and in such cases, the association bonus doesn't count. Perhaps that should be the model for a conlang.se resource list?
An example of such a question - I see them quite often in [politics.se] - is this one.
I don't think long resource lists are a good fit for the Stack Exchange format. I've never found any of them useful. Especially because they often duplicate information found in wikis - they could be a lot of work for extremely minimal gain.
It's better to ask a specific and well-defined question on the main site, and get tailored information in the answers.
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80 | Tag Proposals: "geolinguistics" and "biolinguistics"
I was wondering if it may be appropriate for this site to have tags for biolinguistics and geolinguistics, having to do with the effects of the biology and the physical environment, respectively, on the evolution of a language.
I believe that my recent question would certainly benefit from the geolinguistics tag and, judging from the answers I have seen so far, I think that future questions could easily arise that are much more specific. That tag, specifically, was inspired by this comment to a related question on the Linguistics site. The biolinguistics tag, on the other hand, was inspired by this answer to my aforementioned question, which I believe nods toward potential future questions along those lines.
Since I'm very new to this, I'd rather let someone with more knowledge and experience propose the exact definitions for each tag, but I do believe that these are right in our wheelhouse at the intersection of worldbuilding and linguistics.
I think the subject matters are ones it could be good to have tags for. I'm not sure whether geolinguistics is the right term though. Wikipedia says this:
One academic tradition with regard to geolinguistics as a branch of linguististics gives open recognition to the role map-making can play in linguistic research by seeing the terms dialect geography, language geography and linguistic geography as being synonymous with geolinguistics.
A second linguistic tradition is that of The American Society of Geolinguistics which interprets geolinguistics to be "An academic discipline involving the analysis and implications of the geographical location, distribution and structure of language varieties within a temporal framework, either in isolation or in contact and/or conflict with one another, being originally conceived of by Mario Pei as being a branch of linguistics which would be used to do objective-oriented research on real life language issues and where interdisciplinary approaches would be acceptable."
Neither really match your question. I feel like I've seen another term for what you're asking about, but I can't remember what it was.
Biolinguistics is probably a good enough term? But again, someone else may be able to tell us another term scholars use.
Biolinguistics seems like it would be a good tag for what that answer describes, and a useful tag for this site. While outside of this stack exchange, "biolinguistics" is an interdisciplinary field concerned with exploring the biological foundations of language from a more cognitive science perspective, I see no reason why the term cannot be generalized for the influence of biology on language development and evolution in general -- it would be useful for questions about how non-human anatomy would affect language development, for instance.
Do you have any thoughts on "geolinguistics?" As curiousdannii said in their answer, I'm not entirely sure that that's the appropriate term for what I was getting at.
Yeah it doesn't seem like a particularly good way to describe the concept, but I don't really know of a better one. "physical environment" or something maybe? idk
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174 | How to handle a cross-site duplicate that really should be here?
This question is one that is very important for conlang creation, and thus in my view absolutely belongs on Constructed Languages. However, it has also been asked and answered on Worldbuilding. I’ve posted a comment to the question here pointing to the Worldbuilding question; should I (or anyone else) copy that answer, possibly including other resources, to this question?
That world-building question was asked before the conlang site was opened. It can be asked again here—and I see, it has a local duplicate already.
@jk-ReinstateMonica - yeah, I was alerted to the "canonical vocabulary question" earlier, thus the acceptance of CuriousDannii's answer. In the absense of the CVQ, though, I certainly believe that the question should have "stood" here; the question in my mind was whether the pointer to the Worldbuilding question was appropriate and sufficient, or whether the WB answer should more properly have been copied here (with credit/attribution, plus any additional information that may have been developed in the interim).
@jk-ReinstateMonica - based on the accepted answer, I now believe that should a similar situation without a local duplicate arise, the correct course of action would be to copy the answer with credit/attribution/additional information.
I decided to close it as a duplicate of our canonical vocabulary question. If you think there's anything missing from the WB Q&A feel free to adapt it (with proper attribution) in an answer to the duplicate question.
Yeah, OK, somehow I never knew about that question. :) Thanks!
Since the particular question was asked on Worldbuilding before Constructed Languages was founded, I think that was handled well enough.
Going forward...
As a member of both forums (and a moderator of neither), what I would do, and have done in the past couple years, is flag the WB query for migration to here. Invented languages are of course on topic at WB for valid reasons, but they may be even more on topic here.
What I do is consider how much weight the OP is placing on the glossopoetics vs the geopoetics of the question. For example, if someone asked What Kinds of Linguistic Sounds Can an Intelligent / Sapient Hippogriff Pronounce, I'd consider the weight there to be more towards worldbuilding, as it's a question of physiology and anatomy more than anything else. If the question were Okay, I Know What Kinds of Sounds a Hippogriff Can Make: What Strategies Can I Employ in Determining Which Sounds Might Be Used Linguistically, I'd say that's right up Constructed Language's alley, and I would suggest a migration of that one.
Now, we've fielded questions like the first one here in CL before (there was one about a lipless humanoid a while back). If the first Hippogriff query were asked here, I wouldn't suggest migrating to WB unless the OP were really interested in the details of anatomy rather than language.
If the OP asked these two queries in both forums, I'd VTC the first query here in CL and VTC the other query in WB. Reason being, both have duplicates in better forums. It's a matter of keeping the question in the more appropriate place. An edit to the effect that there is a duplicate at CL within the body of the closed query on WB, if the question got any answers, would be a good idea.
I think your way of distinguishing the sites is helpful.
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179 | I want to share a language I created. But I only have a sound file of it? Can I share a link?
Just wondering about something. I'm new to this community. Am I okay to create a question in which I link a sound file? In the sound file I speak my language. And I have a question about it.
Thanks! Looking forward to joining the community.
Yes it's fine to share audio recordings here. But if you can speak your language then you should also be able to transcribe it using the International Phonetic Alphabet. Please do that for your questions, because not everyone is able to listen to recordings.
Yes, it is. Just make sure to upload the audio file here such that it is permanently available together with your question. Providing it at some external site leads to stale links invalidating the question in the long run.
Does SE host audio? I thought it only hosted images.
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189 | Can questions be posed in languages other than English?
Can we ask questions in non-English natural languges?
This question was closed recently for not being in English.
Stack Overflow, the largest site, does require questions to be in English, but certain other sites, such as the Mathematics site, do not. Sites about a specific language like French, Spanish, or Mandarin have their own policies, but they're sort of a special case.
In the Mathematics site, questions can be posed in any language and someone will add a translation to the end if the question wasn't originally in English. The consensus seems to be that answers can be in English or in the language the asker used, with English being preferable. I'm not totally sure about the policy for answers on the Mathematics site.
I don't know whether relatively new sites like this one can choose to adopt a rule that's more inclusive of non-English languages, but it might be worth considering.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that the Math site allows questions in languages other than English. As far as I'm aware, the only sites where languages other than English are frequently used are on the four language-specific SO sites and Russian Language (which allow only their languages) and some of the language sites, which allow posts in either the subject language or English (e.g. on French, questions may be asked in French or English).
I've asked about the policy regarding non-English questions on the math site before, and some people there referenced discussion on their meta. The consensus there appears to be that questions can be asked in any language and a translation into English can be provided by the original asker or someone else at the end of the question. I've also seen questions asked in Spanish and French on the math site before, and community members have provided translations.
There are some meta posts on Math that say that, yeah but I talked with the mods and, in practice, anything asked in a language other than English is closed - and that's pretty standard. In addition to the moderation issues that jk mentions, if someone doesn't speak English but they get answers in English either the answers have to be translated so that they can understand them or they try to muddle through with tools that translate, which aren't always great, so the value of the content is diminished. It's far better for someone to try asking in English and have some edits from fluent users.
The major problem with questions in arbitrary languages is moderation. One has to understand the questions fully to be able to moderate which includes the recognition of offending language or to decide if a question aims has a factual answer or is opinion based. DeepL or Google Translate aren't good enough tools for that, I'm afraid. They are good for getting the gist of a text in many cases, but not for the finer points needed for moderation.
So I think the language for question on this site should be English.
Concur, unless, as in the indicated question, someone translates it. I have enough competency with Spanish that cleaning up the google translate text is easy in either direction. I'd not do this with German. I've done this on other forums with Italian & Portuguese, but would much rather simply clean up a good question written in bad English.
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218 | Showcases of conlangs
I thought it'd be good to have a page for showcases of conlangs like Code Golf SE does, so here I go. (This post is mostly plagiarized from the linked post.)
This thread is dedicated to showing off interesting, useful, obscure, and/or unique features your favorite constructed languages have to offer. This is neither a challenge nor a competition, but a collaboration effort to showcase as many constructed languages as possible as well as possible.
How this works
All answers should include the name of the constructed language at the top of the post, prefixed by a #.
Answers may contain one (and only one) factoid, i.e., a couple of English sentences without actual demonstrations of the constructed language.
Aside from the factoid, answers should consist of demonstrations of the constructed language.
The demonstrations do not need to be related. In fact, demonstrations that are too related may be redundant.
Since this is not a contest, all constructed languages are welcome, whenever they were created.
Whenever possible, there should be only one answer per constructed language. The answer must be posted as a community wiki, so users would feel free to add demonstrations to any answer, even if they haven't created it themself.
Answers that predate these guidelines should be edited. Please help updating them as needed.
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194 | 2021 Community Moderator Election Results
Moderator election #2 on Constructed Languages has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the new moderator is:
They will be joining the existing crew shortly — please thank them for volunteering and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes!
Also, please join me in thanking the following user, who has stepped down as moderator:
For details on how the voting played out, you can download the election results here or view a summary report online.
Thanks for the (literal) votes of confidence, y'all, and I'm looking forward to serving as a moderator here.
And thank you, @Sparksbet, for your service in the time since the site started up.
Qapla'!
Congratulations and welcome!
Congrats, and welcome in the moderator's round. I also want to thank the two other candiates for throwing their hats in the ring.
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229 | Add examples to the "What topics can I ask about here?" page
I notice that the What topics can I ask about here? page does not* provide examples for what is on-topic. (* as of the time that I am writing this.) Other stack exchange sites typically list dozens of positive (appropriate) and negative (inappropriate) examples of subject matter and provide extensive guidance.
There are many questions on this meta site asking about what is on topic and off topic on the main site. I'm sure an aggregate summary of those discussions would be a good way to seed content for the page.
I think it would be helpful to add examples to flesh out that page.
This site is quite liberal with regard to this question. Essentially any answerable question concerning constructed languages of any kind is on-topic here, including translation requests or single word requests. In my experience as a moderator, off-topic questions aren't a problem yet, and there are no recurring patterns of off-topic questions. When we have to close questions, it is often the criterion "opinion based" that is decisive, not being off-topic.
If you have a question on constructed languages, go forth and ask it.
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219 | Despite not using Mathjax, could we allow for a strict subset of Mathjax that could make it easier to create characters such as ῆ and ō?
The problem: So say somebody wants to create the "ō" character without having to copy it from somewhere. Now here's the thing. This might just be a Linux thing, but I seem unable to find a keyboard which can make that symbol. The same thing goes for the "ῆ" character. The Greek keyboard seems able to create the base character, but is unable to get that specific accent on the character.
A possible solution: Allowing for a strict subset of Mathjax to be used, however, this isn't really a viable solution since I found out while on Detexify that every LATEX character needs a license to be used. It even says so in the restriction, which honestly sucks:
So, are there any other solutions? I guess so, unless using code snippets would not be a viable option, because not only do they take up a huge amount of space in questions, the only way that it could be seen as just able to be considered in the slightest part is if it didn't require a license to use, which honestly is very painful in its full.
My question
Is there any theoretical way that this site could use a strict subset of Mathjax, or are we just going to have to stick to copying and pasting characters into our questions?
I agree with Cornflakes about LaTeX not being the solution, but I'd also like to offer some feedback on your particular use case. On Linux (most versions at least), the "English International" keyboard layouts let you type macrons, and you can enable the Compose key (i.e. XCompose) to make them even easier. For me, Compose+- (or _) will let me put a macron on most letters.
Similarly, ῆ can be typed on any "Polytonic" Greek keyboard—i.e. one that handles the three different types of ancient accents instead of the single modern one. For me, "Greek (polytonic)" makes [ a dead key for the circumflex, so [ h produces a ῆ.
If you can't add extra keyboard layouts for whatever reason, Lexilogos has "keyboards" for a wide variety of languages and scripts. Ancient Greek will give you the eta with circumflex while Latin gives you macrons and breves.
While some sites on the TeX exchange network have LaTeX enabled, this site isn't one of them, and even on linguistics.se there is no LaTeX support. I don't see a convincing argument for LaTeX in the uses cases presented here: These are plain text characters and it is the users' duty to get them in, e.g., by configuring a custom keyboard layout or, as mentioned, by cut-and-paste.
BTW, I think the formulation "every LATEX character needs a license to be used" is at least misleading, if not wrong. It is just that the software is set up as "nagware" that begs for a licence at every use. Of course, characters themselves are not subject to licences (in general, trademarks like the Apple logo in older Apple character sets are a notable exception to this).
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227 | Do we need the [analytic-languages] tag?
The tag analytic-languages is currently without a tag description and does not have any questions asked using that tag.
My question is, what is the purpose of that tag, or should we just burninate it/merge it with another tag?
Tags that are not used on any questions, do not have usage guidance (also called a tag wiki excerpt), and are not a synonym of another existing tag will be automatically deleted by the system, with a process that runs once a day or so.
As long as no new questions are tagged with this tag, it'll automatically disappear and we don't have to do anything at all to it.
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116 | Are questions like "Does my phonology look naturalistic" allowed here? If not, why not?
Are questions* like "Does my phonology look naturalistic", "How can I improve my phonology (to make it look more naturalistic)" and "How can I evolve my phonology" allowed here? It seems, at first glance, that these type of questions are too subjective, but investigating what's wrong with a phonological system is educative.
Naturally, simple answers like 'do this' are wrong, and answers should not contain what to do but how to do it, talking about kitchen-sinkness, balance in phonological systems (and mass changes and chains that might occur there), phoneme occurence in systems and Euro-/Anglocentricism.
Furthermore, many new conlangers ask these questions (see /r/conlangs's SD) and can give the conlang SE more questions and views, as Area 51 stats show that the SE 'needs work'.
*Example:
Proposed Q:
How natural my phonology?
This is my phonology for my language examplang.
PLOSIVE | p b | t d | k g |
NASAL | | | |
FRICATIVE | f v | θ s | x |
APPROXIMANT | | ɹ | w |
FLAP/TAP | | ɾ | |
| i y u
| e
| ɛ ɔ
| a
Ideal A:
There are a couple things to notice. First, balance. The only voiced fricative is /v/, which is very unbalanced (although there are exceptions [with link]) and via sound changes, it might be removed or other voiced fricatives added. Then, the only front rounded vowel is /y/ and the Close-Mid row misses a back.
Then, occurrence. Less than 2% of languages have no nasal stops (Maddieson, Ian. 2008. Absence of Common Consonants. Accessed online at http://wals.info/feature/18). Also, /j l/ look quite common in a system like yours.
Common sound changes to evolve your phonological systems are: a chain in the vowels (which partially will fix irregularities), voicing when intervocalically (Old English had /f s ʃ h/ (or /x/), and borrowing /v/ from French added /v z ʒ/ due to balance), adding diphthongs via gemination (i.e. Vr > V[+gem], then a: > ai, e: > ei, ɔ: > o (fixing unbalance), i: y: > i (later inducing merger between /i y/ too) and use those diphthongs to get glides).
A different question may have been answered including Anglo-/Eurocentricism, kitchen-sinkness and relex.
Questions asking for value judgements should be closed as Primarily Opinion Based. This includes your (original) example question.
Questions can however ask how naturalistic a conlang's phonology system is. Questions do have to explicitly ask this though, don't interpret a question asking if their phonology looks good as meaning whether it is naturalistic.
Questions about diachronic phonology are okay, but many would be duplicates of What is an overview of sound changes? Hopefully we'll get some more narrow diachronic questions which can build on the general overview.
See revised question. Would that be fine?
@DuncanWhyte Sure. What would make you think it wouldn't be?
Nothing, I was just wondering. Many new conlangers ask these type of questions and can help our userbase.
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146 | Topic Challenge: Phonology
Challenge ended
Two weeks have passed, and the first topic challenge has ended. Sadly, we didn’t see a large increase in questions, but let’s keep going anyway!
This time round, we shall go with the topic of Phonology. I expect and hope that there are many an open question for this topic. So, please go ahead and see if you can’t ask some!
Furthermore, we really need more topic suggestions or this series will find a quick end. Please submit them as answers on this thread: Topics for Topic Challenges
Questions:
Which IPA phonemes can be made and understood underwater? (technically this was asked just before the challenge started, but give it some love too)
What are sounds that I have to include in my phonology for it to be naturalistic?
Designing a mildly weird phonology
What reasons would there be for not having a human conlang with only vowels?
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144 | Topic Challenge: Tense/Aspect/Mood/Evidentiality
This challenge has ended!
Good day everyone,
I’m happy to announce our first Topic Challenge. What is a topic challenge? Basically, it’s just a call for more questions. Every two weeks on friday I will announce the new topic and it’ll be featured for everyone on the SE to see. Your mission is to ask questions on that topic, direct people here who might have questions and so on.
As a first topic, we shall start with Tense/Aspect/Mood/Evidentiality (TAME for short). Are you working on a conlang and are unsure if the interplay of your modals with the aspect system makes sense? Do you want to understand how Ithkuil’s mood system differs from that of natlangs or whether Lojban has anything like evidentiality marking (it does)? Then now is the perfect time to ask these quesitons.
Additionally, if you have an idea for an interesting topic that you think might generate good questions, please reply in this thread: Topics for Topic Challenges.
Ask ahead!
Can my question consider part of it?
@Karan It doesn't really seem related to this topic to me.
Questions:
Is there existing terminology for distinguishing multiple imperative moods?
What are the aspects of Esperanto?
Are there constructed languages with a tense system inspired by Relativity Theory?
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154 | Topic Challenge: Language Contact
Challenge Over
Another two weeks, and this time we’ve seen a bit more participation. Way to go! Plus, a bunch more topics have been suggested so we can keep going for a while. Woot!
This fortnight, the topic is Language Contact:
Questions about how to simulate language contact in a conlang, including borrowing, pidginisation and creolisation, code switching, sociolinguistics and prestige languages/dialects/registers...
It’s a very interesting topic, maybe I can come up with a question or two too? If you have an interesting topic too, submit it here: Topics for Topic Challenges
Question belonging to this topic challenge:
Slang in Esperanto On the slang register in Esperanto
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121 | On Linguistic Questions
There is a variety of people who come here with different intentions. There are people who are interested in particular conlangs (e.g. the languages of Tolkien), and there is no debate that their questions are perfectly appropriate here. But there are of course also people who want to make constructed languages themselves¹, and their questions will be much more linguistic in nature. I would go as far as to claim that for anyone who wants to make a naturalistic conlang² will predominantly have questions that might just as well feature on linguistics.SE. The obvious question then becomes whether these questions are on-topic here. Some example questions that fall into this grey zone:
What is the difference between tense and aspect?
What are common origins of accusative case markers?
Consider an isolated, close-knit community; which characteristics is their language likely to have?
What is the difference between an Isolating and an Analytic language?
Of these, 1. and 4. are questions on linguistic terminology, while the other two ask about tendencies in natural languages. All of these questions would presumably be welcome on linguistics.SE. At the same time, these are questions that an aspiring conlanger might have and (moreso in the case of 2. and 3. than for the terminology questions) will need answers to to properly construct their language.
Are these questions on topic here?
¹ such as myself
² which is likely a majority among conlangers
While the featured tag may have been a bit too much, I would like to sincerely disagree on this being a “relatively obscure scoping issue”. This issue is (in my opinion) a major deciding factor on whether the conlanging community as a whole ends up considering this site useful or not. I don’t see this as minor.
Yes, I believe it is imperative that we allow these questions here.
The reasoning is quite simple: Yes, there is another place here on StackExchange you could go ask that question, but other places to ask questions have always existed. You could just as well go to reddit, or a conlanging forum, or the linguistics department of your favourite university, and ask there. This should not be a sufficient reason to ban these questions here.
On the other hand, I believe this kind of question brings immense value to the community: without them, a large section of active language constructors would be completely excluded from this site. I myself would likely never ask any questions anymore on this site, and I know quite a few people who feel the same. Conlanging depends on linguistics, and as such, excluding it would be (as I wrote elsewhere already) like excluding questions on music theory on a composition forum. As such I believe that any linguistics question that is relevant to conlanging should have a place here.
However, ...
I do believe that questions of this kind could be framed in a better way at times. Often, the person asking such a question has a very specific situation in mind that relates the question more closely to conlanging. I believe that where possible, we should encourage bringing the questions into context (by asking for context in comments, for example). To make an example, consider this (also grey-zone-y) question asked on this site by myself:
How do tones disappear from a language?
In this instance, I did not actually have any context to add. I am not currently working on any tonal languages that I might de-tonalize and was in fact just curious about it. However, imagine this was the case, then perhaps a better question might be phrased more along these lines:
In my constructed language, I have a tonal system with three tones (high, low, falling). Many words are mono- or bisyllabic, and there is a large amount of minimal pairs between words only distinguished by tones. I am currently deriving daughter languages from this language and would like for some of them to lose tone. However, I fear that in doing so, too much ambiguity will be created. What can I do to combat this?
Now, this question essentially asks the same thing, but the context makes it clearly conlanging-related, and on top also allows for more directed answers. While the former lands in the controversial grey zone discussed in this thread, the latter would be without any doubt on topic and a good question.
That said, I don’t believe that inventing context should be done either, which is why I’m not going to edit that old question of mine to contain the invented context above.
Added to Adarain's answer, I believe some questions can be edited to be more conlang-like.
Here are the examples in the question:
What is the difference between tense and aspect?
What are common
origins of accusative case markers?
Consider an isolated, close-knit
community; which characteristics is their language likely to have?
What is the difference between an Isolating and an Analytic
language?
Here are my revisions:
(Don't know)
What can my accusative case markers develop from? / What is a naturalistic development of accusative case markers?
Which characteristics is my conlang likely to have, in an isolated, close-knit con-community?
(Don't know)
While I agree with Adarain's suggestion that posts be edited to tie more closely into a specific conlanging problem when possible, I do not agree that any question that cannot be re-worded in such a manner is automatically more suitable for Linguistics SE. Linguistics SE assumes a different level of basic knowledge of linguistics and different goals than Conlangs SE does. Answering questions #1 and #4 would be approached differently in a community where the focus is on linguistic knowledge for its own sake rather than for the sake of constructing or describing one's own conlang.
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119 | Introducing your pro-tem moderators
Throughout the beta, we need members from the site whose focus is to engage the community, both in community-building issues and site management. That's why we select a few members from each community to act as temporary, provisional Moderators. You can read about the program here: Moderators Pro Tempore.
I am pleased to announce, at long last, that these members have stepped up and generously volunteered their time to help us assure that each community’s issues are properly addressed:
We want to make this site a huge success, and these members are great examples of exactly the type of people we need to make this site succeed. Please welcome them for the hard work and time they contribute.
Did I overlook anyone?
Almost certainly. There are members who are actively involved and very deserving of recognition. My failure to account for everyone this early on is in no way a slight against them. Ideally, Moderators are elected by the community and that's why we eventually hold elections.
Most of all, be respectful and understanding of the Moderators Pro Tem. Members of your community are volunteering their time and learning on the job. It’s a learning experience for everyone.
Thank you, and congrats to Adarain and Sparksbet!
@curiousdannii congrats to you too :) Let’s make this a good place!
I'm a bit late, but congratulations to you guys too! I'm excited to mod with y'all.
Gratulojn! Eglerio! SaHoy'!
It's great to have you all as moderators here. You've already shown your passion for this site and its topic; all that remains to say is good luck in your modly endeavours. And since you're all new to Stack Exchange moderation, do come and join the Teachers' Lounge if you ever need assistance :-)
| Stack Exchange | 2025-03-21T13:24:21.614105 | 2018-04-03T16:20:23 | {
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