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rolodex
2007-04-08T03:06:17
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1,2,3, whatever man. I don't want to embarrass you, but no matter how many users you have, with this site you should not pretend to be a pro:<p>a) Fake small caps, creating weird stairs in the underline b) Passive white space everywhere c) Random picture placement d) Dozens of font sizes e) Justification chaos, random spacing f) Plenty of useless design elements, g) Obvious silliness (like what you do with your signature)<p>If you really knew about typography, you'd take this nightmare offline right now.
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richcollins
2007-04-08T03:14:46
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"Business types" are not necessary. <p>What is necessary is the presence of someone who really understands people. Your product is destined to be used by people; so make sure that someone on your team has an interest in truly understanding your users and the other people that you will have to deal with.
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blader
2007-04-08T03:19:56
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Yeah, it's great work.
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Sam_Odio
2007-04-08T03:24:27
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My, how things have changed. I love that entire section:<p>...A computer on which to develop software ($3000)...<p>...Secure server software ($5000). This does not seem to be an absolute necessity; there are a lot of sites on the web where you can send your credit card number unencrypted, and to date there have been no reports of the numbers being stolen. But catalog companies may <i>believe</i> that a secure link is necessary...<p>...At present Webgen has only a 28.8kb connection. This will serve in the initial stages, when we have few clients....
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theoutlander
2007-04-08T03:28:03
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We had a major power outage in the Seattle area in December '06 and some areas didn't come back for 12 days (mine was 6). I met my partner at a grocery store while picking up firewood and somehow we talked about how our lives were dependent on computers and the internet :-P. That evening we started poker nights with a few friends where we bounced ideas. Finally, when I was working on my idea and the 2 people working with me QUIT, I was telling him about how hard it was to find a co-founder! And to my surprise, he offered to work on it....now we exhibit great teamwork! Just like the founders of Google, our Bachelors is from Univ. of Maryland and Univ. of Michigan ... LOL
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Sam_Odio
2007-04-08T03:30:30
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Cool site, it'd be nice if you had more robust geographic search capabilities.<p>Google maps integration would be awesome.
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wammin
2007-04-08T03:33:41
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The above code isn't working anymore, please try this one: YAZJZ3. Let us know what you think!
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joshwa
2007-04-08T03:34:59
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No, that note seems to imply that there were other angels (not YC) who had convertible debt.
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Sam_Odio
2007-04-08T03:45:10
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When I started a summer project, I used facebook advertising and campus flyers to find potential partners.<p>I ended getting ~15 hackers interested in working on the project over the summer, interviewed 10, and picked two.<p>We all worked an lived together in the same apartment. It was probably the best summer of my life, and cost us about $2,000 / person. Most of that was for food & rent.
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tonyhung
2007-04-08T03:50:25
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Is this author trying for that? Speaking <i>as</i> the author, I can say that I am not fishing for anything except for intelligent debate ;)<p>Your argument about finding a better product, however, is a bit off. History is littered with better products and better companies getting relegated to the proverbial dustbin. After all, if it was true, Apple, or even Amiga, would have been King decades ago.<p>t @ dji
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raj
2007-04-08T03:54:52
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the only issue i take with this article is the following (and its an issue that, when i hear someone say it, it almost immediately calls everything else into question about their logic and reasoning): not everyone can get broadband. not everyone can AFFORD broadband. get your head out of the Valley, out of San Fran, out of Austin or California or New York city, and go ANYwhere in Everywhere, USA, or Anywhere Else, Rest-of-the-World, and you'll see that broadband is either insanely prolific or utterly non-existent, government-funded or tough-to-afford for the working class, and a complete scattershot congregation of technologies, hardware and security.
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joshwa
2007-04-08T03:55:53
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Friends of friends... put it out there to anyone/everyone you know that you're looking for someone with x background or x skills. Let your network do the work. It worked for me!
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zkinion
2007-04-08T04:01:05
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is it just me/my browser/whatever, but all those links to his success series seem to load right to his latest blog posting...<p>I've tried in safari/opera/firefox. All are redirecting to his mainpage. grrrrrrrrrr time to break out the ole IE for one last attempt.
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divia
2007-04-08T04:03:02
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Maybe this is just me being slow, but it took me a few minutes to figure out where the Start a Wamily button was. It would have helped me if, for example, ". . . add your own" (below the featured Wamilies) was a link. Just a thought. Looks very cool though, and I'm definitely reminded of Ning.
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tshelton
2007-04-08T04:03:45
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Speaking to a microsoftie this evening about all this and another lightbulb went on -- one of the things hobbling Microsoft is its historical focus on the partner as the channel for connecting with customers. Think about it -- how often do you buy a Microsoft product directly from Microsoft? Never? You always buy it through someone else, through the "channel" -- which might be a reseller, a var, or an oem. This disconnection from the customer is killing microsoft in the NEW world...
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zaidf
2007-04-08T04:09:44
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Back in high school I used to get small freelance projects. Every now and then I would subcontract it. And I subcontracted one of the coding projects through a rentacoder.com to what later turned into my partner. We just connected really well and shared a passion to launch new things.<p>We've done quite a few ventures together in past 4-5 years with MSN chat being our only line of communication:) If we get into YC he'll be flying up to US and hey we might actually finally meet.
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kevinxray
2007-04-08T04:10:10
Risky Marketing Can be Smart Marketing
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http://www.collaborati.org/kevins/weblog/17.html
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zaidf
2007-04-08T04:12:35
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That's a neat approach in that it's something that can be repeated - of course the exact response may vary depending on the nature of your uni.
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hyoussef
2007-04-08T04:12:45
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Paul realizes that he cannot win by predicting market dynamics. Instead, this is his shot at shaping it.
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mattculbreth
2007-04-08T04:15:58
Now Don Dodge is writing about Paul's essay
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http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/04/since_when_does.html
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wammin
2007-04-08T04:18:15
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divia, thanks for the feedback. we're definitely listening to what our alpha users have to say -- Nate (co-founder of Wamily)
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noway
2007-04-08T04:21:17
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Might be true if you live in "Silicon Valley lead shielding" talking only with startup guys. Completely wrong outside. How many people know Y-combinator? Here you are...<p>
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mattculbreth
2007-04-08T04:21:34
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"Sorry to burst your bubble but it was never Microsoft's intent to scare anyone. Microsoft has a huge partner network of over 80,000 companies who enjoy working with Microsoft."<p>Eh. I personally didn't enjoy working with Microsoft. Strange mix of arrogance and mediocrity.
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reitzensteinm
2007-04-08T04:22:40
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Maybe Paul should have called it Microsoft: The Big Friendly Giant.
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randallsquared
2007-04-08T04:28:50
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If I were building a gmail, I'd be using a maildir-derivative.
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mukund
2007-04-08T04:29:12
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well what did microsoft do way back, they bought hotmail for millions from sabeer bhatia. Now what happened? hotmail is still way behind Gmail and yahoo mail. Did they improve that? NO. That shows 0 creativity or understanding of things. Only thing MSFT is good at is putting nice colors and popping things here and there and calling it cool tech. Inane people dont see that for this cool thing they are putting pressure on hardware, RAM guzzler cool things eh?
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mynameishere
2007-04-08T04:33:48
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At the top of the Wiki, have two text boxes, with the first one editable, and the second automatic:<p>Wiki [UserEnteredTitle] [<a href="http://wamily.com/wiki/username/UserEnteredTitle.html]">http://wamily.com/wiki/username/UserEnteredTitle.html]</a><p>Then, non-members can see the text without any fuss.<p>Now that I think about it, I don't see any way to easily link to my homepage:<p><a href="http://wamily.com/username/">http://wamily.com/username/</a>
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T04:35:49
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Hilarious! Yes, I have seen this <i>way</i> too many times. Great find!<p>Here's a personal account of ball of mud code: <p>(from my comment on <a href="http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/04/07/how-to-wreck-your-brand/">http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/04/07/how-to-wreck-your-brand/</a> )<p>I worked with them [Sony] on the development of their <a href="http://musicstore.connect.com/">http://musicstore.connect.com/</a> site that was their attempted 'iTunes Store killer' (just saying that makes me chuckle). Wow, what a mess. Talk about spaghetti code that had mushroomed into a giant ball of mud. It was <i>way</i> over budget and took much longer than anyone anticipated. And a year later, it still only supports Internet Explorer and Windows.<p>My take on what went wrong in this instance: they did not manage complexity.<p>They let it grow and grow and did not believe that 'code debt' was a reality. It soon took 10 times longer to make even the simplest changes because of the very poor state of the code.<p>I have seen this happen at several companies and it's usually the same story. There are B and C level coders that don't understand the dangers or code complexity or code debt and thus create loads of both. The A level coders that do understand this try to explain the growing problem to management. The management doesn't know any better, so they see code cleanup as a needless expense that will only slow down rolling out new features and so they side with the B and C level coders. Of course, the irony is that development will eventually crawl to a near halt because the code is undecipherable. Along the way the A level coders get so frustrated with the state of the code base that they leave the company for greener pastures. This is the critical turning point since the B and C level coders will only hire other B and C level coders - and the project will die a slow death as the cycle continues.
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felipe
2007-04-08T04:54:33
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In Java, I have used Prevayler in a previous project (about 2 years ago), and I really liked it:<p><a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/prevayler/">http://sourceforge.net/projects/prevayler/</a><p>The reason I'm not using it right now is because Hibernate makes OO mapping so easy and trivial that I honestly don't see the need. But it still a good solution if using a DB is an overkill.<p>I believe there's a Prevayler port for Ruby.<p>
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Robby
2007-04-08T04:54:53
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I really don't get the hype about Ajax etc. This (and maybe the younger ones are lacking this knowledge) effect could be done since the mid 90s.<p>In those days, you eithr used a frameset with a hidden frame to get the update stuff from the server and put it into the browser via DOM access. Or, to stay with MS, you could use a hidden IFRAME.<p>Really no rocket science... so, the killer apps these days are small, simple and FAST desktop apps (whatever desktop people use). We will see...
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h3h
2007-04-08T04:55:17
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Awesome.
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jayliew
2007-04-08T05:32:54
Word of the day: Passion
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http://nesheimgroup.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/03/word_of_the_day_2.html
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gibsonf1
2007-04-08T05:35:35
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:) <p>My experience with graphic design is mainly in the traditional realm, not on the web. I never claimed to have the ultimate typography on my website. (To give you an idea of my age, I programmed a BBS in basic on a commodore 64 "Moondog BBS" in 1982 - I was a Junior in HS.) However, the site was cutting edge when I first had it on in 1995 and was published a few years in a row in the book _Design Portfolio_ with interviews, etc. in the late 90's. <p>My site has been neglected as I've been too busy (too many projects, etc.), but the thrust of the site is the imagery and design and ideas, not the fonts. That is the value people get from the site and why it is so heavily linked and visited. I am definitely looking forward to having the site totally automated and database driven so that I can control the look and feel globally (the site is huge if you noticed) and have it always up to date finally later in the year.<p>But to take it off because of imperfect fonts and frames etc. would be foolish. I would be denying the value that so many people are getting from the site in its current crippled form. But thank you for the concern :)<p>
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jayliew
2007-04-08T05:36:03
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The one sentence that stood out the most to me from this article was "Pick your hill to die on."<p>Life's too short to work on something meaningless, a reminder to myself that nothing is more important than working towards your passion. I can see myself old, and on my death bed, regretting not taking the chance to change the world. And that, scares me.
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gibsonf1
2007-04-08T05:43:41
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Wow. Congratulations PG, you have Microsoft on the defensive!
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jganetsk
2007-04-08T05:44:38
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Latency is fine, I think, and gets better all the time.<p>The browser is a <i>fantastic</i> platform. You never have to install web apps. You never have to patch web apps. And you are automatically connected through the client-server paragidm that proved to be so wonderful before desktops ever came about.<p>Remember, dumb terminals were around long before PCs.
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dfranke
2007-04-08T05:58:24
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"Strange mix of arrogance and mediocrity."<p>Those things tend to correlate positively.
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dhpeterson
2007-04-08T06:04:26
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Old news! I've been using Linux since 1993, been involved in startups since 1999, and about the last time that I paid <i>any</i> attention to Microsoft was when they launched .NET (around 2003). In fact, the .NET implementation (a belated catch-up in many ways to Java) was about the only semi-innovative development effort I have seen come out of MS in the last 10 years. Even so, it was little more than a tarted-up virtual machine, a cleaned-up set of Java-equivalent programming APIs, and a couple of cool features like crypto-signed DLLs, a global assembly cache (hmm - where do <i>you</i> put all <i>your</i> JAR files, then?!) and the ability to mix and match programming languages in a single application (though only one target language per DLL, or more strictly, per .NET "assembly"). <p>Then, Miguel and the gang came along and wrote Mono, and pretty much re-implemented everything of value from .NET, without the licencing overheads of running in a windoze only environment. That basically took the wind out of the sails for Microsoft, and they've been floating around, almost impassive, pretty much just watching the emergence of ASP/SaaS computing, web 2.0, AJAX, Ruby on Rails, blogging, wikipedia, bittorrent, skype, asterisk and everything else from the sidelines ever since.<p>I think the real problem comes back to people. It's a bit like Paul's articles on Great Hackers and what motivates them. I know plenty of great hackers (and I would like think that a couple of startups later I am at least a good one! - though I find myself more and more on the business side in recent times, growing our company and developing our people - good young hackers themselves). I even used to know a few guys at Microsoft (Australia and Singapore). The last "good" person that I knew who went to Microsoft (from a PhD programme at Melbourne Uni) joined in 2002. Since then, nobody I know even went near the place. If you can't attract great people, then you won't build great products, and everything else is a forgone conclusion. Microsoft has built great cash-cow businesses, and great fortunes for its founders, but I don't believe it will ever be a player again.<p>
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nickb
2007-04-08T06:12:56
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I often wonder what Don Dodge does at MS.... he's supposedly in Emerging Business and yet he's often way off the mark and he spends an inordinate amount of time writing blog posts. I think he's actually in PR/Evangelism section... I often question his credibility when I find a link to one of his posts.<p>He completely missed the PG's main point that no one is afraid of MS anymore. He's pointing to revenues and yet he fails to mention MS's abysmal share performance. Come on Don, at least read more than the title next time.
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dfranke
2007-04-08T06:17:08
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I recently moved my homepage from daniel.franke.name to <a href="http://dfranke.us">http://dfranke.us</a> with a 301 redirect and no change in content. The result was that it took Google a few weeks to notice the move, but at no point was my page not the #1 result when you googled my name.
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dfranke
2007-04-08T06:23:33
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I realize that it appears the same way on the article and you probably just copy-pasted, but please don't post article titles in all-caps.
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JamesPunk
2007-04-08T06:30:32
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You've got to be an idiot to think Microsoft is dead. Ever seen WPF/e? Photosynth? Xbox 360? Virtual Earth 3D? Not to mention the framework for 90+% of computers and one of the biggest R&D initiatives of any private company. Then there's that little $60 BILLION nestegg sitting in the bank waiting for new oppotunities. <p>Is there even one synapse in your whole head firing? You've got to be cold stupid to think they're dead.
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jward
2007-04-08T06:32:39
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Same here. The other programs look interesting and all, but I'm not willing to move to another country for anything but the best.
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jganetsk
2007-04-08T06:40:50
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I think user experience can and will be duplicated. I did post a link to an SVN front-end that has a very similar interface. Maybe the competitors are locked-in to some bad design decisions and can't quite recreate the same user experience... but that's a little optimistic.<p>Anyway you slice it, you need to have a profit margin. And with a commodity like storage (and the soon-to-be commodity of online storage), you have to be competitve with market prices. The reason that most YC startups can worry about user adoption is because they aren't tied down to this problem. They aren't really making commodities and the cost of makign the product isn't so suffocating.<p>That's why Dropbox needs to plan for moving off S3. There is so much innovation in storage backends... so much research to read. Think of Google Filesystem. It makes storage very very very cheap.<p>Here's a good plan for Dropbox. Use S3 as a secondary solution. The primary storage should be local to them (servers running a filesystem that takes advantage of unique properties of the workload... like Google does). When it fills up, traffic thereafter is handled by S3 instead. Then, they can relax in worrying about and scaling local storage. They can take their time buying more hardware, and rolling out software changes to the storage system. They can migrate the data from S3 to local storage at will. And now, their customers can be charged a flexible price, because they control their own expenses. In other words, think of S3 as "datacenter outsourcing".<p>But this might be too long-term... it might be something to worry about post-YC.<p>But I think it might be easy to build a storage implementation that runs local and exposes the same exact interface as S3. And, poof, we just abstract the whole backend away, and just flip a switch when we want to go one way or the other. And it reduces latency. Then you go after zero-downtime data migration from S3 to your local systems... which can be done I think... and I think you would be happy.
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chris_l
2007-04-08T06:41:20
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"I mean, there is a whole industry developed around databases, they must add value..."<p>The traditional RDBMS adds random access by computed criteria, transaction safety, multi-threadedness, a standard query language, ...<p>If you don't need these, you're likely to suffer a performance hit / programming overhead compared to a system that does not offer them. A filesystem only offers random access by one key (pathname).<p>Also, the more specialised your needs are, the further down the stack you should start your own code. For a simple web application with a bit of user data, I would probably go with a DB. For your own search engine, you probably want something a little more customized, building on top of a standard fs.
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deep_throat
2007-04-08T06:42:02
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Microsoft makes more money than any Y Combinator startup ever will. Bill Gates is off saving the world with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, while PG is busy exploiting young talent.
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pg
2007-04-08T06:46:07
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Hmm, seem to have hit a nerve here. I can't imagine anyone would have reacted so angrily if I'd said Microsoft was dead in 1995. They would have just laughed it off then. Because it wasn't true then.
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anandology
2007-04-08T06:49:45
First internet worm is created by Robert Morris, co-founder of ycombinator
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Worm
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gibsonf1
2007-04-08T06:54:31
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Survival and success are two different things. The 50% PG referred to are for the founders becoming "rich" by their standards, not just staying in business.
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pg
2007-04-08T06:54:41
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Fortunately it was 11:47 pm when I read this.
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pjzedalis
2007-04-08T06:55:33
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I think it's kinda lame how everyone goes over there and bashes the poor guy about "Duh Microsoft is dying" or "Paul is right!" or "You can't control the Internetz!!!" <p>Please, this is a well paid executive. He has business meetings with other executives, oversees the big transactions. Paul may very well be right about the future of our industry, of the Internet... <p>The problem is not that Microsoft is not feared, or that they are not agile, or even that they are not aware. I don't think they really even care. As long as the Citigroup's and other GIANT Fortune 50 companies are buying MS products, they will be in the green for decades to come.<p>The fact that they are interested at all in what we like/think warrants some credit, however little we collectively may give them. I like to keep it in perspective, it's just a software company after all.
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pjzedalis
2007-04-08T06:56:38
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He's filling in for Scoble.
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pjzedalis
2007-04-08T06:57:30
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With 60,000+ employees it's fairly easy to offend somebody.
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pjzedalis
2007-04-08T07:01:59
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why? Maybe for replication.
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pio
2007-04-08T07:05:09
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Paul, have you heard anything about enterprise software? :)
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mukund
2007-04-08T07:14:44
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BLS you are missing a point. Money isnt the only thing at stakes. You need good mentors, advisors and backing of them to actually built a sturdy one. This $15k or $20k isnt what one wants, it works the other way, we are using YC/PG et al to learn few things we dont know. They are giving you one complete solution of taking idea to reality. The money you borrow from parents, friends et al wont come with that help. Plus YC isnt saying that u sign up for life with us, they are showing you a way by teaching you priceless things for nothing. Even if they take 99% of equity, 1% comes with 100% experience and happiness to have achieved something. Plus for some one smart, this isnt the ONLY IDEA, this is just a beginning :)
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blader
2007-04-08T07:15:26
Iocaine Powder: A Champion Roshambo AI Dissected
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http://www.ofb.net/~egnor/iocaine.html
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mukund
2007-04-08T07:18:28
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oh ok. Well the model will be cool if an user can stream songs for others to listen. Say buy rights for the song and if someone has to listen to same, he can request trade or buy the song for airing it. This way he or she recovers money and could be something worth. rather than paying 99 cents and owning it and listening for few days...one can trade it and find ways to earn back 10 times :D
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mukund
2007-04-08T07:20:28
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Well with the amount of fees i shelled out in here, buying a computer, installing linux and learning it wasnt easy. So had to go for computers provided by schools with no admin rights :(
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jamongkad
2007-04-08T07:21:08
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Awesome I'm a big big fan of the BHAG.
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mukund
2007-04-08T07:23:52
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RMS, This is my viewpoint, i have always gone for either best or nothing, just like 1 or 0, there isnt any thing in between. I stand by what i say, even though i have no proof to show or say that i applied to YC and no where else. But i am honest in saying what i practice.
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reitzensteinm
2007-04-08T07:26:51
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I'm pretty sure that the way you're framing the debate doesn't help. Literally speaking, "Microsoft is dead" just isn't true - as Don says, they're actually still growing - it's their second derivative that's screwed. Nobody cares about Vista, the 360 is about to be knocked off the throne by the Wii, the Zune is irrelevent, opearting systems are steadily becoming a commodity and not just because of web apps. I agree with it all, except I really question your choice of words.
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mukund
2007-04-08T07:28:02
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Well when i said PG, i meant PG + Team at YC. As long as i get advice from ppl at YC, i would be glad
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mukund
2007-04-08T07:39:47
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LOL people snooping on PG and reading the contents? Well this only shows that they could better spend that time in building better things
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ivan
2007-04-08T07:56:49
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Hi Sam, thanks for your comment and be sure this is on the way :)
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bootload
2007-04-08T08:04:34
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Looks like Don has a history of picking winners working for <i>DEC, Forte, Compaq, AltaVista, Napster, Groove, deNovis</i> and now Microsoft. [0] <p>I love microsofties, they go straight for the throat. The circumspect ex-softies trash MS these days for MS's lack of focus & ability to adapt. This is because MS has lost their core asset, their API.<p><i>'... The cornerstone of Microsoft's monopoly power and incredibly profitable Windows and Office franchises, which account for virtually all of Microsoft's income and covers up a huge array of unprofitable or marginally profitable product lines, the Windows API is no longer of much interest to developers ...'</i> [1]<p>There is still some great stuff coming out of MS, but they hardly excite the next generation of developers of software. Some of these issues revolve around the dollar costs associated with owning MS operating systems & associated software. Cheaper and more open alternatives don't help. [2]<p>To hear Office, Corporate ownership and X-Box [3] demonstrates to me the developers have left, and <i>marketroids</i> are bleating the 'marketing & business' advantages, where in the past it would have been technical advantages. [4]<p><i>'... Defaults. Microsoft will design Windows so as to enable computer manufacturers and users to set non-Microsoft programs to operate by default in key categories, such as Web browsing and media playback, in lieu of corresponding end-user functionality in Windows ...'</i> [5]<p>And as for Microsoft being benevolent, all I have to do is look at Don's own first post in his blog to see Microsoft priorities in print. [6]<p>Reference<p>[0] Don Dodge, 'Linked in Bio'<p><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/dondodge?trk=btn_typepad">http://www.linkedin.com/in/dondodge?trk=btn_typepad</a><p>[1] Joel Spolsky, 'How Microsoft Lost the API War'<p><a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html</a><p><p>[2] Why is it Windows OS has got more expensive, while hardware has got cheaper? It's not distribution nor the OEM's installing the software. So why has MS consistently increased the cost of owning their OS?<p>[3] Well maybe not X-Box. But how many developers have access to X-Box tools, can develop for it & release software?<p>[4] MS did a great job unifying the hardware market from DOS to Windows meaning you just plugged hardware in and it worked. <p>[5] Don Dodge, 19th July 2006, 'Microsoft's 12 principles to promote competition. Read the comments concerning defaults and MS software settings'<p><a href="http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/07/microsofts_12_p.html">http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2006/07/microsofts_12_p.html</a><p>[6] Don Dodge, 'Microsoft's 12 principles to promote competition' Ibid.
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neilc
2007-04-08T08:18:22
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<a href="http://madeleine.rubyforge.org/">http://madeleine.rubyforge.org/</a> is a Ruby implementation of similar ideas, I believe.
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matth
2007-04-08T08:19:28
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Jacksonville, FL; 1, 21
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SwellJoe
2007-04-08T08:25:17
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Good luck, old-timer. You'll have to let us (Virtualmin, ages 32 and 33, WFP2007) know how it turns out. We'd enjoy not being the oldest Y Combinator founders. I hope you're working on something even more boring than system administration tools, too, so we could kill two birds (the "oldest" tag and the "most boring" tag)
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T08:25:35
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Wow, did these guys even read the last paragraph of the article? Almost on cue they give the exact response predicted:<p>"I already know what the reaction to this essay will be. Half the readers will say that Microsoft is still an enormously profitable company, and that I should be more careful about drawing conclusions based on what a few people think in our insular little "Web 2.0" bubble. The other half, the younger half, will complain that this is old news."
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neilc
2007-04-08T08:26:06
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Another reason to not use a DBMS for a search engine is that typical implementations of transaction-oriented SQL databases are a <i>terrible</i> fit for the performance requirements of a search engine. For example, search engines don't need concurrent writes or ACID transactions, or SQL-like query language; search engines want to optimize for large-scale updates, not small, random writes; typical DBMS index structures (btree) don't work well for search engine indices.<p>Eric Brewer has an interesting paper that lays out an architecture for a search engine that is consistent with DBMS design principles, but differs significantly in the implementation details:<p><a href="http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~brewer/papers/SearchDB.pdf">http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~brewer/papers/SearchDB.pdf</a>
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SwellJoe
2007-04-08T08:26:23
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Get ye to the nunnery. Or, maybe a college campus would be a better place to round up a co-founder. You're gonna need one.
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T08:27:18
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"Literally speaking, 'Microsoft is dead' just isn't true"<p>Did anyone really think pg was 'speaking literally'?
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T08:30:59
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Wow, great comment!
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T08:35:05
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Good idea - that would be really interesting to see.
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T08:35:58
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He he, great point ;)
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SwellJoe
2007-04-08T08:39:31
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"What's such a class other than search?"<p>Why "other than search"? Seems to me that at least half of the reason Google won was because every other search engined was tarted up with "portal" BS. That's UI.<p>So, since it's clear to me that search isn't one of those classes, and the examples given ("systems" stuff) is the area my startup is working in and I'm absolutely certain that UI is going to be 50% of the success or failure of our company, I'm not seeing any area where UI isn't vitally important.<p>One of the WFP2007 groups is working on a new language for mobile app development...and they're spending plenty of time on the "UI" even in that case. UI, of course, being anything that involves a user interacting with your system.<p>I guess someone somewhere in this thread is treating UI as "pretty things on a web page"...but UI hacking is important no matter what you're doing, if you want to sell it.
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BitGeek
2007-04-08T08:41:17
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Tied how? Certainly not legally. When you buy the computer you buy a license... no court would uphold charging people for something and not letting them have it.<p>The "shrinkwrapped" license agreements are not really enforcable... at least not in a legitimate (eg: competant) court.
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jaggederest
2007-04-08T08:42:15
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Even more interesting, happs (<a href="http://happs.org)">http://happs.org)</a> combines a number of things: a prevayler-style in memory persistence layer, twisted-style event-driven programming, and SEDA-style non-blocking IO.<p>It's built in haskell, which really is a beautiful language if you can wrap your head around it. Much like lisp in that sense.
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rms
2007-04-08T08:42:15
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I'd like to have enough money to make a difference in the world.
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BitGeek
2007-04-08T08:45:17
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Don't be silly Bob. Apple is not arrogant nor greedy... unless you're a socialist who thinks that all companies that actually sell software are "arrogant and greedy". <p>The stallman cult thinks this and they have gone so far as to have protests against Apple when they sued microsoft! That's how twisted their socialist thinking is-- they support the monopolist against the underdog!<p>If you're 50 years old, get a mac, you'll find that its a hell of a lot easier to use than Linux. <p>To claim that its "superficial" is to not understand the real advantages of the Mac... alas, I suspect too many people like you reject microsoft and then reject Apple (because of FUD spread by MS or linux fans) and then go back to microsoft when they discover that Linux is a damn hard to administer desktop (for most people.) <p>I have been using unix for 20 years and I only run Linux in particular situaitons because generally the admin load is just not worth it. Why deal with it when Mac OS X is so much better? So, I use it on servers, but only when I am not able to use apple hardwware (They make great servers too....) <p>The thing about Apple is, its far better than people think... and most people have never tried it, and yet many of these peopel have a negative impression of it based on propaganda from MS proponents.<p>
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JMiao
2007-04-08T08:49:29
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He called Apple a "hardware company." Sony is a "hardware company." Apple's killer app, especially in consumer electronics, is software.<p>He then called Google a "consumer search company." Has he forgotten about GMail and the power of web apps based around powerful search?<p>I completely understand if Mr. Dodge was taken aback by Paul's essay, but I really do hope (at least for Microsoft shareholders) that Microsoft's Emerging Business Group doesn't actually buy into these "classifications."
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BitGeek
2007-04-08T08:53:52
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Companies succeed <i>despite</i> VC funding, not because of it. <p>VCs are people with more moeny than brains who are certain the situation is reversed!
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JMiao
2007-04-08T08:56:57
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XBOX is a closed system for a very good reason -- it ensures a general spec of quality for consumers. Aside from obtaining a license, console manufacturers like Microsoft enforce strict quality assurance measures on developers before code goes gold (manufacturing).<p>Just think about the open-standard PC, putting aside some obvious benefits like keyboard control: Who wants 50 unregulated, crappy versions of a football simulation game? Additionally, 5-6 patches (normal with PC games) is simply unacceptable for an out-of-the-box, plug-n-play device like a game console.
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T09:02:13
Uh, the real reason Microsoft is Dead...
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6843390913661737077
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[ 10386, 10390, 10404, 12748, 10714, 10745, 10570, 10782 ]
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bootload
2007-04-08T09:09:08
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<i>'... XBOX is a closed system for a very good reason -- it ensures a general spec of quality for consumers ...'</i><p>Sony Playstation is a <i>closed system</i> but i can still program qbasic on it. [0] You missed the point. How do the next generation developers get a taste of developing software for MS's game platform? Get a copy of Windows and start with DirectX?<p>MS missed the chance to capitalise users from the next generation to create their own crappy games, with some basic MS technology (compilers, languages and editors), pass them around with their mates. I hardly expect anyone to create a game worthy of a gold. But it doesn't mean you couldn't let users try, for curiosities sake.<p> Reference<p>[0] Even if it was to get a tax break. I can also use antiquated Linux operating systems and various hacks. Can this be done with XBoxes? I don't know.
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T09:11:59
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Reason #2: <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8009043995556715164">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8009043995556715164</a><p>Reason #3: <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9196554724028857364">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9196554724028857364</a><p>Reason #4: <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4687264451069658413">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4687264451069658413</a><p>Reason #5: <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4734578294758407158">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4734578294758407158</a>
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BitGeek
2007-04-08T09:12:45
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The terms1 of S3DFS don't work for me so I suggest people look at MogileFS. I just learned about it recently, so I can't give a review... but it looks interesting.<p><a href="http://www.danga.com/mogilefs/">http://www.danga.com/mogilefs/</a><p>1 Will pay good money for software, their prices are ok, just don't like the feeling I get that they will have my company by the balls.
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T09:18:20
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At the end of the article:<p><i>"rant, swear, rant, swear...<p>PS: I could use some help with Apache htaccess files."</i><p>Nice ;)
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whacked_new
2007-04-08T09:23:25
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Hey bootload; rather OT, but I'm interested in how you are extremely detailed with your sources. Care to share how you organize and retrieve relevant information?
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theoutlander
2007-04-08T09:23:33
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Lol .... this is getting out of control ... watch some Anti-Trust :-D
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JMiao
2007-04-08T09:37:19
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Playing around with QBasic on an XBOX doesn't sound too practical, aside from questionable tax tactics. =)<p>Have you heard of XNA? It's a popular C# framework amongst game developers that allows anyone interested in game development to bring their creations to life on PC and XBOX 360.<p>As a matter of fact, one of the projects I developed in university is now being transferred to XNA by a friend of mine...some people from the XBOX Live group saw our game and encouraged that it be ported to XNA so they can look into making it available on XBOX Live Arcade.
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T09:41:56
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From pg's Viaweb FAQ:<p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/vwfaq.html">http://www.paulgraham.com/vwfaq.html</a><p>"What database did you use?<p>We didn't use one. We just stored everything in files. The Unix file system is pretty good at not losing your data, especially if you put the files on a Netapp.<p>It is a common mistake to think of Web-based apps as interfaces to databases. Desktop apps aren't just interfaces to databases; why should Web-based apps be any different? The hard part is not where you store the data, but what the software does.<p>While we were doing Viaweb, we took a good deal of heat from pseudo-technical people like VCs and industry analysts for not using a database-- and for using cheap Intel boxes running FreeBSD as servers. But when we were getting bought by Yahoo, we found that they also just stored everything in files-- and all their servers were also cheap Intel boxes running FreeBSD.<p>(During the Bubble, Oracle used to run ads saying that Yahoo ran on Oracle software. I found this hard to believe, so I asked around. It turned out the Yahoo accounting department used Oracle.)"
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bootload
2007-04-08T09:42:17
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Yeah Daves a smart guy but he doesn't want to search, play or read the details on mod_rewrite.<p><i>'... The great thing about mod_rewrite is it gives you all the configurability and flexibility of Sendmail. The downside to mod_rewrite is that it gives you all the configurability and flexibility of Sendmail ...'</i> [0]<p>But then again i don't think I'd wish configuring this software on your worst enemies.<p>Reference <p>[0] mod_rewrite, 'Module mod_rewrite URL Rewriting Engine'<p><a href="http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/mod_rewrite.html">http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/mod_rewrite.html</a>
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far33d
2007-04-08T09:42:49
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<i><p>"Holding up Apple and Google as the Microsoft killers is curious. Microsoft is a software company. Apple is a hardware company and Google does consumer web search. I have a lot of respect for Apple and Google, but Microsoft killers? I don't think so."<p>I think that's exactly the point Don. Desktop software, while still (immensely) profitable, isn't the future of software. <p><p>
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T09:43:46
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Here's the discussion I think you were thinking of:<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=10001">http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=10001</a><p>Based on this article:<p><a href="http://blog.nanobeepers.com/2007/04/07/infinitely-scalable-framework-with-aws/">http://blog.nanobeepers.com/2007/04/07/infinitely-scalable-framework-with-aws/</a>
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mattjaynes
2007-04-08T09:50:23
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He he, yeah, I'm sure Sergey and Larry are having lots of sleepless nights over at the googleplex ;)
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bootload
2007-04-08T09:57:47
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<i>'... Have you heard of XNA? It's a popular C# framework amongst game developers that allows anyone interested in game development to bring their creations to life on PC and XBOX 360. ...'</i><p>Now that's more like what I meant & more usable. Why didn't/don't they ... [looks up XNA on google] ... ahh so they have thought of this ~ <a href="http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/default.aspx">http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/default.aspx</a><p>Looks like you can run your code on the XB360 via the XNA creators club ~ <a href="http://creators.xna.com">http://creators.xna.com</a><p><i>'... the XNA Creators Club opens up video game development to untapped creative minds, enabling anyone to affordably build and play amazing game ideas on Xbox 360™ systems for the first time ever ...'</i><p>Thanks for the heads up. That's why I do not discount MS doing some interesting technology. This is superior to Sony who will not allow you access to key sound & graphics API's without forking out the $200K developers license.<p><i>'... As a matter of fact, one of the projects I developed in university is now being transferred to XNA by a friend of mine...some people from the XBOX Live group saw our game and encouraged that it be ported to XNA so they can look into making it available on XBOX Live Arcade. ...'</i><p>Good stuff. Just out of interest how is it licensed?
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amoroso
2007-04-08T10:00:20
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More online Web 2.0 image editing tools: <a href="http://www.dailyblogtips.com/free-online-photo-editors/">http://www.dailyblogtips.com/free-online-photo-editors/</a>
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AndyDavies
2007-04-08T10:16:50
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MS may be past their peak but they're certainly not dead and won't be while they've still got large corporations willing to buy their software.<p>Some of your arguments just don't hold water, at one point you're arguing the desktop is dead but then oh one of the reasons MS is in trouble is Apple's desktop?<p>Web based applications may be on the rise but there are plenty of problems with them too, disconnected operation, lack of backups etc. being some of them.<p>The platform of the future is the phone - you've only got to look at how it's used to fuel innovation in some of the third world countries.<p>
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