text: IRC log of tagmem on 2002-03-04
  Timestamps are in UTC.
  15:00:41 [RRSAgent]
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  15:00:48 [TimBL]
  RRSAgent, help
  15:00:49 [DanC]
  RRSAgent, pointer?
  15:00:49 [DanC]
  See
  15:03:31 [DanC]
  * Paul's notes from Technical Plenary TAG session Paul Cotton (Thu, Feb 28 2002)
  15:03:31 [DanC]
  15:11:53 [DanC]
  Zakim, this will be tag
  15:11:54 [Zakim]
  ok, DanC
  15:22:22 [DanC]
  "In addition, a report on the discussions at the workshop will be made public after the meeting." --
  15:27:14 [Stuart]
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  15:28:37 [TimBL]
  Zakim, this is TAG
  15:28:38 [Zakim]
  sorry, TimBL, I do not see a conference named 'TAG'
  15:28:41 [DanCon]
  DanCon has joined #tagmem
  15:28:58 [TimBL]
  ooops
  15:29:08 [DanCon]
  oops;
  15:29:11 [DanCon]
  see you in the telcon.
  15:29:28 [Zakim]
  TAG_Weekly()10:30AM has now started
  15:29:32 [Zakim]
  +TimBL
  15:29:36 [TimBL]
  Zakim, this is TAG
  15:29:37 [Zakim]
  ok, TimBL
  15:29:40 [Zakim]
  +??P5
  15:30:10 [TimBL]
  Zakim, ??P5 is Stuart
  15:30:11 [Zakim]
  +Stuart; got it
  15:30:17 [TimBL]
  Zakim, who is here?
  15:30:18 [Zakim]
  I see TimBL, Stuart
  15:30:39 [Zakim]
  +DanC
  15:31:00 [Zakim]
  +ChrisL
  15:31:55 [DanCon]
  frap; my ssh tunnel is acting up
  15:32:12 [Zakim]
  +??P6
  15:32:15 [Zakim]
  +??P8
  15:32:33 [Roy]
  Roy has joined #tagmem
  15:32:43 [DanCon]
  Zakim, who's here?
  15:32:44 [Zakim]
  I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, ??P6, ??P8
  15:32:54 [TimBL]
  Zakim, ??P6 is PaulC
  15:32:55 [Zakim]
  +PaulC; got it
  15:33:05 [Roy]
  I need the phone number
  15:33:20 [DanCon]
  tel:+1.617.761.6200
  15:33:22 [Stuart]
  +1 617 761 6200 I think
  15:33:28 [Stuart]
  then 0824#
  15:33:40 [Zakim]
  + +1.604.873.aaaa
  15:33:41 [TimBL]
  Zakim, ??P8 is Norm
  15:33:42 [Zakim]
  +Norm; got it
  15:33:57 [TimBL]
  Zakim, 604 is TimBray
  15:33:58 [Zakim]
  sorry, TimBL, I do not recognize a party named '604'
  15:34:05 [DanCon]
  Zakim, +1.604.873.aaaa is TimBray
  15:34:06 [Zakim]
  +TimBray; got it
  15:34:06 [Zakim]
  +??P10
  15:34:11 [TimBL]
  Zakim, +1.604 is TimBray
  15:34:12 [Zakim]
  sorry, TimBL, I do not recognize a party named '+1.604'
  15:34:24 [DanCon]
  Zakim, ??P10 is RoyF
  15:34:25 [Zakim]
  +RoyF; got it
  15:34:30 [DanCon]
  Zakim, who's here?
  15:34:30 [TimBL]
  Zakim, who isn't here?
  15:34:31 [Zakim]
  I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, PaulC, Norm, TimBray, RoyF
  15:34:31 [Zakim]
  I don't understand your question, TimBL.
  15:34:47 [DanCon]
  regrets from IanJ
  15:34:59 [DanCon]
  ========== Convene
  15:35:02 [DanCon]
  Zakim, who's here?
  15:35:03 [Zakim]
  I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, PaulC, Norm, TimBray, RoyF
  15:35:23 [TimBL]
  15:35:26 [DanCon]
  agenda etc:
  15:35:36 [DanCon]
  Last modified: $Date: 2002/03/05 23:10:05 $
  15:36:40 [DanCon]
  [some confusion about the agenda...]
  15:36:57 [DanCon]
  agenda+ admin, review of minutes
  15:37:08 [DanCon]
  agenda+ * Technical Plenary - short report - issues arising?
  15:37:18 [DanCon]
  agenda+ 1. Creative writing: dividing up the TOC
  15:37:32 [DanCon]
  agenda+ * XML namespace issues. Mixed namespaces. Issue 13.
  15:38:34 [DanCon]
  -------- Action review
  15:38:54 [DanCon]
  -- XML PM workshop stuff...
  15:40:18 [DanCon]
  15:41:02 [DanCon]
  ACTION DanC: check with workshop chair, make them available to the public, per CFP
  15:41:13 [DanCon]
  DONE: Summarize XMl PM workshop
  15:41:39 [DanCon]
  PaulC: dan, when you're done making them public, lemme know so I can re-send to www-tag, OK?
  15:41:42 [DanCon]
  DanCon: OK
  15:41:52 [DanCon]
  DONE: Kick off discusiion of mixed namespace interpretation on www-tag
  15:41:57 [DanCon]
  15:42:11 [DanCon]
  --
  15:42:17 [DanCon]
  going back to the top of the list...
  15:42:29 [DanCon]
  "Summarize different approaches currently used for mapping URIs to media types."
  15:42:34 [DanCon]
  not quite clear who's doing what...
  15:43:03 [DanCon]
  ACTION RoyF CONTINUES.
  15:43:33 [DanCon]
  from 12Feb, Paul requested to withdraw "Summarize TAG findings on using URIs: (a) use URIs when naming in context of Web (2) should be able to follow URI to explanatory material (3) software is not required to follow a URI when processing it"
  15:44:15 [Zakim]
  +DOrchard
  15:45:10 [DanCon]
  action comes from 15:52:56
  15:45:16 [DanCon]
  ACTION PaulC CONTINUES.
  15:45:51 [DanCon]
  ACTION TimBL CONTINUES:
  15:45:53 [DanCon]
  "Add a section on datatypes to the TAG arch doc toc."
  15:45:57 [DanCon]
  from 12Feb.
  15:46:26 [DanCon]
  re TBL 12 Feb "In 28 Jan findings, propose alternative wording to section on namespace-based dispatching"
  15:46:32 [DanCon]
  ACTION TimBL CONTINUES.
  15:47:49 [DanCon]
  ACTION TimBL CONTINUES: "In 28 Jan findings, change "Should" to "Must" where appropriate."
  15:48:04 [DanCon]
  ACTION IJ CONTINUES: "Integrate findings into TAG arch doc toc."
  15:48:25 [Stuart]
  15:48:25 [DanCon]
  DONE: SW "Write up that the TAG approves of IETF draft from Don Eastlake with "http:" instead of "content-type:"."
  15:49:16 [DanCon]
  Roy: [something...]
  15:49:29 [DanCon]
  DONE: TBray: "Write a proposal to suggest that URNs not be used for namespace URIs."
  15:50:05 [DanCon]
  re "Ask Philipp Hoschka to take a new HTTP requirement on idempotent POST-like method to IETF liaison teleconference. Include the XForms WG in the loop." TBL from 18Feb.
  15:51:26 [DanCon]
  Roy: I'm not sure what this is about...
  15:53:27 [DanCon]
  reviewing the log, it seems related to "whenToUseGet-7
  15:53:28 [DanCon]
  "
  15:53:36 [DanCon]
  ACTION TBL WITHDRAWN.
  15:54:08 [DanCon]
  it came from 22:25:37
  15:54:26 [DanCon]
  DONE: TBray: "Rewrite point 14 of Architectural Theses on Namespaces and Namespace Documents per discussion at 18 feb teleconference."
  15:55:01 [DanCon]
  ACTION PaulC/Ian: draft summary of TAG work to date. DONE.
  15:56:51 [DanCon]
  "Here is my draft report using my outline. ... " --
  15:58:06 [DanCon]
  TBL/DanC: style is kinda formal; be more chatty?
  15:58:21 [DanCon]
  Roy/Bray/others: it's fine; not much meat to it yet anyway.
  15:59:29 [DanCon]
  PROPOSED: forward summary to www-tag, w3c-ac-members, chairs@w3.org.
  16:00:00 [DanCon]
  PaulC: I've heard requests for a separate tag announce list, FYI.
  16:00:28 [DanCon]
  RESOLVED: forward summary to www-tag, w3c-ac-members, chairs@w3.org.
  16:00:39 [DanCon]
  ACTION DanC: send it out.
  16:00:50 [DanCon]
  agenda?
  16:01:06 [DanCon]
  ======== 2. * Technical Plenary - short report - issues arising?
  16:01:17 [DanCon]
  PaulC: "more technical stuff" is the major feedback we got.
  16:02:09 [DanCon]
  PaulC: I think it would be interesting for the TAG to lead discussion of technical issue. have folks discuss them.
  16:02:16 [DanCon]
  SW: yeah...
  16:02:31 [DanCon]
  PaulC: no particular "please look at this issue" feedback.
  16:03:10 [DanCon]
  DaveO: "document authoring" folks at a lunch table suggested that 'ease of authoring' is broken...
  16:03:22 [DanCon]
  ChrisL: they seem to be asking for one big W3C namespace
  16:04:36 [DanCon]
  PaulC: to summarize, again: the TAG session went so well that they asked us to run the whole thing next time.
  16:04:57 [DanCon]
  PaulC: thanks, Norm and Dan, for the nifty presentations.
  16:06:08 [TimBL]
  ---------------------
  16:06:10 [TimBL]
  16:06:33 [DanCon]
  TimBL: note it's color-coded... issues in red, ...
  16:07:42 [DanCon]
  Bray: wasn't somebody gonna stick all the issues in there?
  16:07:59 [DanCon]
  TBL: I did that; it was up to date at some point
  16:08:49 [DanCon]
  RoyF: is this an index of what we're doing? or an architectural description of the web?
  16:08:52 [DanCon]
  TBL: both
  16:11:58 [DanCon]
  TBray: who's maitaining this? I asked for anchors, version numbers, etc. ... how about xmlspec DTD?
  16:12:16 [DanCon]
  TBL: I'm maintaining it; I'm using Amaya, and I just hit save.
  16:17:11 [DanCon]
  [lots of discussion, about what is not exactly clear]
  16:19:50 [DanCon]
  Roy: ah... now I get it... the section heading for the 3rd bit misled me.
  16:20:00 [DanCon]
  "Representational State Transfer"
  16:21:37 [DanCon]
  TBray: how about this version/last version; keeping old version available.
  16:22:17 [DanCon]
  TBL: I expect the blue ("working documents") bits to expand.
  16:24:46 [DanCon]
  RoyF: so I'd like to help with the writing, but I don't see the process.
  16:24:53 [DanCon]
  TimBL: that's what this agenda item is about...
  16:25:15 [TimBL]
  Zakim, q?
  16:25:16 [Zakim]
  I see no one on the speaker queue
  16:25:52 [DanCon]
  Bray: do we expect to point the community at this page?
  16:25:58 [DanCon]
  DanCon: we've done that much already, no?
  16:26:10 [DanCon]
  Bray: then I'm not comfortable; it's got stuff that we've never discussed, typos, etc.
  16:27:12 [DanCon]
  TimBL: this is very much a draft...
  16:27:44 [DanCon]
  Bray: then please put a disclaimer at the top
  16:30:03 [DanCon]
  [discussion of just what sort of disclaimer is appropriate/sufficient]
  16:31:28 [DanCon]
  TimBL: I'd like to assign somebody the intro, and somebody a one-page version of each section.
  16:31:37 [DanCon]
  [and something about slides?]
  16:33:24 [DanCon]
  RoyF: "CHAPTER 4: Designing the Web Architecture: Problems and Insights" belongs more in the TAG intro than in the 3rd section of our docs.
  16:35:42 [DanCon]
  [...]
  16:35:58 [DanCon]
  DanCon: are folks backing out from using/wanting CVS?
  16:36:43 [DanCon]
  Roy: my request for CVS is pending. but I still intend to use it.
  16:37:14 [DanCon]
  TimBray: does section 4 [messages] need to be there?
  16:37:44 [DanCon]
  TimBL: sorta like asking "does web services need to be there"? i.e. where would you put stuff about messages and such?
  16:38:14 [DanCon]
  q+
  16:39:33 [DanCon]
  ?: but are they bringing us issues?
  16:40:01 [DanCon]
  PaulC: how about having the web services architecture group to write that stuff?
  16:42:04 [DanCon]
  DanCon: there are issues, e.g. from RDF Core, that don't come up until you uncover the illusion that the web never changes.
  16:44:02 [DanCon]
  DanCon: I hope to learn about web services architecture by discussing it here.
  16:44:36 [DanCon]
  DaveO: so which group should develop the web services architecture?
  16:45:02 [DanCon]
  DanCon: I hope we'll come to agreement about what it is.
  16:45:37 [DanCon]
  DaveO/PaulC: the Web Services architecture group is discussion "what is a web service?" at length right now.
  16:46:50 [Stuart]
  \me and counting... tick :-)
  16:47:03 [DanCon]
  DaveO: I'd like this group to give the web services arch group a framework in which to define web service.
  16:50:18 [TimBL]
  daveO: it would be useful for them to have a glossary from us
  16:50:34 [TimBL]
  tim: it would be useful for us to work on the glosary sonn, as we go.
  16:51:42 [DanCon]
  PaulC: so if we give a good grounding in the basics, other groups, e.g. Web Services Arch, should fall in/out naturally.
  16:51:56 [DanCon]
  [several]: sounds good.
  16:52:53 [DanCon]
  TBL: so... back to the idea of one page on each section...
  16:53:58 [DanCon]
  Bray/DanC/Orchard: yes, filling in the content is likely to provide useful feedback on the TOC.
  16:54:03 [DanCon]
  ... it's iterative.
  16:54:04 [TimBL]
  DaveO: table of dependencies betwen specifications would be useful asn I wouldlike to work on it.
  16:55:06 [DanCon]
  TimBL asks DaveO to chat offline about dependencies etc....
  16:55:19 [DanCon]
  Norm: I've been doing depenency stuff too; I'd like to be involved.
  16:56:45 [DanCon]
  TimBL: I'd like to attack sections in pairs, rather than having each person stay in their field of expertise.
  16:57:48 [DanCon]
  Norm: I'm interested in "what is a URI"
  16:57:54 [DanCon]
  Chris: message section.
  16:58:20 [DanCon]
  Stuart: "what is a URI" -- me too.
  16:58:31 [DanCon]
  PaulC: message section.
  16:58:36 [DanCon]
  ... with chris.
  16:58:57 [DanCon]
  DanCon: I'm interested in the intro.
  16:59:02 [DanCon]
  Bray: me too: intro.
  16:59:32 [Zakim]
  -TimBray
  17:00:41 [Stuart]
  On dependencies I spoke to some folks from the RDF-IG and they were interested in 'scraping' a dependency graph out of the documents themselves.
  17:01:15 [TimBL]
  Applicationl State Transfer @@ retitle (Roy, DaveO)
  17:01:45 [Zakim]
  -RoyF
  17:01:48 [Zakim]
  -PaulC
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  17:01:49 [Zakim]
  -DOrchard
  17:01:53 [Zakim]
  -ChrisL
  17:02:31 [Zakim]
  -TimBL
  17:02:44 [Zakim]
  -DanC
  17:02:45 [Zakim]
  -Stuart
  17:02:46 [Zakim]
  -Norm
  17:02:47 [Zakim]
  TAG_Weekly()10:30AM has ended
  17:02:50 [DanC]
  so, tim, does the group expect more than just a pointer to the IRC log?
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