text: Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011
  From Eclipsepedia
  Meeting Minutes
  December 14, 2011: - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Andrew
  - API Tooling Baseline comparison 3.7 vs 4.2 -- problematic since API was copied
  - bug 343150 git denyNonFastForward ie forbid commits that rewrite history ... looking for general policy ... Eclipse Project to adopt immediately.
  - Andrew: Denis may roll out the change to all repos
  - Resolution: Wait until after Christmas, if not rolled out by then move forward ourselves
  - McQ (Tom Watson): Leadership for p2 team
  - John: 4.2 Builder switching to Hudson for M5 - not all of the UI tests compile
  - Lot of test failures
  - Just flip the switch to Hudson, and live with failures at some point ... (and commit to fixing test failures as fast as we can)
  - Fixing a components' test is the component team's job.
  - Vacations: Skip next 2 weeks
  December 7, 2011: - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
  - Martin: bug 365908 with 4.2m4 not picking up extensions from dropins/
  - John / Dani - XML problems breaking the build due to a "Help Index Generation" ant task
  - John / Anrew - Hudson Failures, Platform fortunately not there
  - Reasons: Hudson can't tag and can't deploy to downloads
  - John: It makes sense that the Hudson user can't write to the Repo
  - Orion: Start from a shellscript (for tagging), then kick off a Hudson build partway through
  November 30, 2011: - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin, McQ
  - Andrew - Long Term Support. McQ - Overlap is in the build technology, can't be done for Juno (still busy with git + hudson), but happy to consume what's being developed
  - Foundation contracted with Sonatype (Igor) for moving to Tycho, but just analyzing the current build may take 4 months
  - Linuxtools currently using a small ant wrapper which just calls the Platform build (generate a source tarball such that linux distros can consume Platform from source;
  - Martin - User Assistance Situation
  - Chris G moved to Jazz - Rest of the IBM team completely maxed already, would fix critical security defects only
  - Some work has been done by other IBM committers.. could release patches, but can't be responsive to fixes
  - There's an opportunity for others in the Community to step in and set the direction
  - McQ: The only one most important issue at the moment is compliance with the new US Government accessibility regulations
  - Newer Lucene; Help Search Stemming problems; nobody actively tracking the inbox
  - John: Have been moving "committer-less" components into the general Platform component where 12+ committers have commit rights
  - McQ: Platform project Zombies is OK, but having somebody step up would be better
  - John: 3rd party dependencies... help has a few, eg upgrading to Jetty (managed by Chris before he left)
  - Lucene: Merged with SOLR, then 3 releases came out in the past 3 months, no Foundation CQ's in ... John interested in adopting Orion
  - Been in contact with Gunnar Wagenknecht who is also interested, but newer Lucene pulls in more dependencies than it needs
  - Failing Search : would need an exact bug report where the search is failing, then McQ could get product teams excited
  - John: Orion problem with older lucene is that it's leaking file handles ... less of a problem for Platform where we index only once
  - John - bug 363948 Eclipse 3.8 to 4.2 update
  - Fix would involve changing metadata in p2 such that a 3.8 update wouldn't find 4.2 automatically, unless a specific update is requested
  - That fix leverages what Pascal from p2 considers a bug
  - Products could manage the problem by not adding the Juno repository.. but there's lots of things in Juno that people would want (eg egit, cdt, ...)
  - Fix that John thinks about would be on the product level
  November 23, 2011: - Dani, John, Andrew
  - Discussion of whether to turn on auto-tagging in maintenance builds. General agreement this is a good idea. We would not have a separate "integration" branch for maintenance streams.
  - Some discussion of EclipseCon submissions. PC voting is underway and program should be decided in the next two weeks. There is a great program of submissions so far, and it will be tough to select the talks that will make the cut.
  October 26, 2011: - Dani, John, Andrew, McQ
  - Approve Paul Webster as Platform UI project lead
  - Some discussion of the Eclipse Platform UI Git disaster - bug 361707
  - Currently any committer can delete everything from the repository permanently
  - The commit hook prevents committers from restoring commits made by others that they have in their local clone
  -
  October 12, 2011: - Dani, John, Martin, McQ
  - PMC upstaffing - looking for more Community input
  - egit bug backlog
  - e4 builds
  - p2 downloadable archived repos
  - Moving to 4.x
  - Community is moving ... any product that's not planned for EOL needs to move
  October 5, 2011: - Dani, John, McQ
  - Some discussion of removing CVS from the SDK (bug 359466). There is no strong argument for removing it, so it is hard to argue for disruption to user community. In the end we would like CVS to be removed and would like it to be just as easy to install any SCM into the platform. We would like to see the p2 discovery UI used to make it trivial to add SCM support into SDK (Help > Add Version Control > CVS). Once we had that in place we would be in a better position to remove CVS by default.
  - We also discussed the Git line delimiter problems. Current recommendation:
  - core.autocrlf=false - not honoured by JGit so this makes things worse
  - Use Global workspace setting to use Unix line feeds by default
  - Encourage projects to add a project-specific setting to use Unix line feeds
  September 21, 2011: - Dani, John, Martin
  - Dani: git - Mac / Linux using scripts, tooling not yet ready for Windows ... productivity lacks
  - painful when working across multiple repositories ... problematic workflow for reviewing incoming changes
  - John: egit could fetch automatically in the background (without merge)
  - John: used platforms poll
  - Results visible once voted: platform-poll.php
  September 14, 2011: - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
  - Martin: PMC membership - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
  - John: Jetty 8 - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
  - eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
  - No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
  - releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
  - check with Equinox
  September 7, 2011: - John, McQ
  - State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
  August 31, 2011: - Dani, John
  - We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
  - Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
  August 24, 2011: - Dani, John
  - EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
  - Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: bug 337245. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
  August 10, 2011: - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
  - Dani / Martin - Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace
  - Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
  - Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
  - Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
  - McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
  - Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
  - McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
  - But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
  - Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
  - John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
  - Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
  - John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
  - Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
  - McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
  - Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
  - Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
  - Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
  - McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
  - Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
  - McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
  - Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
  - Resolution: Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work
  - Dani: Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations (details)
  - Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
  - McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
  - Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
  - Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
  - AI Dani Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project
  - Vacation notices:
  - Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
  - McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
  August 3, 2011: - Dani, Martin, McQ
  - Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
  July 27, 2011: - Dani, John, McQ
  - Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
  - We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
  July 20, 2011: - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
  - Dani - p2 Installer bug 317785 affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
  - Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
  - Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
  - John - git migration - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
  July 13, 2011: - McQ, Dani, Martin
  - Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
  - nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)