A new delimitation of the federal territory has been discussed since the Federal Republic was founded in 1949 and even before. Committees and expert commissions advocated a reduction of the number of states; academics (Rutz, Miegel, Ottnad etc.) and politicians (Döring, Apel, and others) made proposals –  some of them far-reaching –  for redrawing boundaries but hardly anything came of these public discussions. Territorial reform is sometimes propagated by the richer states as a means to avoid or reduce fiscal transfers.